Spurs sign Ginobili as cap space grows thin

There was never a question whether or not Manu Ginobili would finish his career as a member of the San Antonio Spurs. It was always just a matter of when that time would come. But, once Manu wrote of his intentions to stay, the questions were about “how much?”

Ginobili reached a 2-year, $14 million agreement today to stay in San Antonio, a deal that will likely span the remainder of his NBA career. The countdown has officially begun on the Big 3: two more years, at most, is probably all they have left.

The Manu situation has been a polarizing one in recent weeks and months, and his value to this team has been in serious question. While the $14.1 million he made last season was a gross overpay for his production, it was a fairly typical final-year-of-the-contract type of situation. According to an in-depth and performance-specific statistical analysis (I can’t link to it or refer to it here in a public forum, I’m sorry), Ginobili’s play over the past year was worth roughly $8.5 million. So, while a $7-million salary might seem a bit much for a guy who struggled as a 35-year-old, and for a team that had a real chance to make some significant moves under the cap, it does make things a little more clear in San Antonio.

With this agreement, it seems the Spurs are looking to stay over the salary-cap line, especially after yesterday’s events surrounding Tiago Splitter and his new 4-year, $36-million deal. By doing this, it means they’ll have access to the full Mid-Level exception of ~$5 million. We’ve outlined the possibilities before of using the amnesty provision on Bonner, but that seems unlikely at this point, when using the MLE after exceeding the cap would basically give the Spurs the most financial flexibility. Amnestying Bonner and letting Neal walk would essentially provide this team with less cap space, and definitely less depth, than they’d have with a full crew returning and an available MLE.

The Spurs have been methodical about this, and I’d imagine they’ll continue to be so. But it seems at this point they’ll be looking at around $5 million to spend on one (maybe two) more player(s) in the very near future. The Spurs used most of their Bi-Annual exception to sign Nando De Colo last season, so that’s basically a moot point now.

Whether the Spurs want to divvy up that $5 million between more than one player remains to be seen. But if they’d like to bring in a significant contributor, they might need to spend every penny of that on one person.

How much of all of this is about thinking forward and what we’ll have to pay Kawhi soon?

Personally I think both Tiago and Manu are being overpaid, even if it is “market value” for Tiago. There is a difference between price and value, and I think the price is exceeding the value for them both here.

Patrick

Well, like Matthew said, David West signed a deal worth $12 million a year. There was no other comparable player that we could have signed for around the $9 million they are paying Tiago. It’s all supply and demand. The only better bigs would cost more. Tiago is a known quantity at the very least. If they had made a move on Josh Smith or Al Jefferson, there is no guarantee that they would fit. The Spurs already KNOW Tiago fits. Is it worth wasting Duncan’s last years on a player that might not pan out?

Melbourne Spur

I’m happy to keep Tiago, I like him as a fit for our team, but I’m not sure we had to pay him that much, regardless of whether there were better options out there or not. Just because there isn’t something else to spend your money on, doesn’t mean you have to spend it. If I am car shopping and the Ferrari shop is sold out of Ferraris, I don’t spend Ferrari money on a Toyota. Portland may have offered the same, but that doesn’t mean he would want to go there.
I am far from being across all the rules and regulations around NBA salary caps, but my concern is that when it comes time to re-sign Kawhi, we may not have that flexibility with contracts like Tiagos hanging over our heads.
Also a lot of you are saying that keeping known quantities is more likely to produce in Tim’s last years than risking on someone with a better skill set/body/athletic ability who may not fit. If the reason is to provide Tim the best shot at a title, then in my opinion Tiago isn’t it. I would rather take the chance on a better player with the assumption that if they fit, we are a better shot. The FO know better than me – I’m just your average fan. But I would think heading into a finals series next year against the Heat with Josh Smith next to Tim would hold us in a better position than Tiago and Tim, given that Tiago was null and void in the Finals. He was great in the WCFs, but we need to beat the Heat to win the title, and Tiago cannot help us do that one bit.
A big 3 of Tony, Kawhi and Smith for years to come after Tim retires keeps us competitive at the top end of the league, whereas Tony, Kawhi and Tiago isn’t quite the same now is it.
I hope Tiago improves out of sight, and with extra minutes can produce to a level required now that this is the way we have gone. I would think that in all honesty, he and Tim need to be almost the same production next year – Tim down some, Tiago up a lot. I expect Tim to get even further reduced minutes in the regular season, so Tiago needs to be a 12 and 10 type of guy every night.
Like I said, I like Tiago as a fit for the team, but I just don’t think he is our answer to improved chances at getting a 5th ring.

Titletown99030507d

Thank you very much. I said the same thing on the “ramafications” post. We just don’t have the luxury of time to see if any big replacing Tiago would mesh with Timmy or the system. One season is just too taxing for Timmy. It’s next season or bust again for these guys.

TD BestEVER

Also keep i nmind that if OKC is healthy they will also play us with a small ball lineup…..And Golden State will play is with a small ball lineup…… We need players who can do SOMETHING on their own to make themselves useful….Tiago simply is a GREAT system player……but average NBA players…… his numbers would suffer on any other team and EVERYBODY including Title knows this….his one on one game just isn’t there and his rebounding and defense is bolstered mainly by TD behind him……

Melbourne Spur

Exactly. The only teams in the west right now who will be ‘big’ are the Lakers (if Howard returns), Clippers (if you count Jordan as anything worth guarding) and Memphis. Most others will go small on us. As much as we showed everyone how to play Miami to their weaknesses, they also showed the league how to take us out of our P&R game the best – go small ball and guard Tony with a long, athletic player.
Tiago works well for us when he can be the P&R guy and can match up defensively with a big, but any variation to that and he becomes dead weight. Keeping him just because he knows our system when someone else doesn’t isn’t reason enough. We are more of a shot to win a title with some talent rather than a big body who won’t play much.

Melbourne Spur

I think we don’t have the luxury of time waiting to see if Tiago will improve and be useful against smaller line-ups. With no changes to the roster, the only real improvement next year can realistically be expected from Kawhi getting involved more in the offense, and we can expect less from Tim and Manu. So without a big signing, we are likely moving backwards while others are moving forwards.

td4life

RC Buford is good at drafting but he lacks stones in negotiations with agents. The Spurs have a history of paying the high end of the market value to their returning role-players. Fair price for Splitter was $8-9M and so the Spurs should have been able to get him to sign a for $8M. No team is going to make Tiago look as good or be as successful as his current one, and he wouldn’t have to move, or play for a inexperienced coach or next to another poor rebounder like he would in Portland. If we amnestied Matt, and let Neal go, and honestly told Mills that he’s strictly an insurance policy and cheerleader (encouraging him to opt out and strike a deal somewhere he could actually crack the rotation), then we would have been able to add some new talent. But since Pop and RC are not willing to do this, it doesn’t much matter that we paid high for Splitter and didn’t strike a bargain for the declining 36 year old Ginobili.

Corey D

Kawhi’s contract runs out 2 years from now. At that point in time Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili’s contracts are all up. Duncan will and Ginobili will most likely retire thus clearing about 17 million in cap space. Additionally Parker will probably resign for less or equal to what he is making know since he will be 33 at this point. We should have the flexibility to resign Kawhi by then.

Always consider the following: Spurs are smarter than we are. They completely understand what they are doing when they sign these contracts that may seem ludicrous to us.

icewater21

We still have the FME left…so no worries. We’l sign someone who’ll surprise…AK47 for fme for 4 yrs or so…

Tim in Surrey

Actually, a lot of teams in the West will roll out multiple bigs with good size and strength: If the Rockets sign Howard, they’ll be huge. The Jazz will also be pretty big with Kanter and Favors, Golden State will have Bogut and Ezeli, the Suns will have Gortat and Len, the Pelicans will have Lopez and Davis, and the T-wolves will likely have Love and Pekovic. There’s plenty of size in the West.

Tim in Surrey

We were one missed free throw away from taking the championship from ones of the most dominant teams in history. How much improvement do you need. I don’t actually agree there will necessarily be less from Tim and Manu. But even if there is, it’s likely to be offset by improvement from Kawhi, Tiago, and Icy/Hot (as well as the youngsters on the bench). And we still may sign a big contributor like AK-47 with the MLE. I think we’re good.

TD BestEVER

I agree 100%…they keep trying to make the SAFE move to remain in the hunt(Boring) as oppose to trying to make a SPLASH and become the favorite.(Sexy) There is nothing wrong with bringing in a AL Jefferson, or Paul milsap….. you know that when TD?TP are on the bench resting that Manu and the 2nd unit can still have a STUD to rely on as oppose to just relying on the system…..

A system that has been exposed the last 2 years late in the playoffs when teams put BIGGER/STRONGER players on TP and slow him down are entire team just falls apart….. We need players who can overcome that because its gonna happen again this year and I’m not sure TD can carry us again like last year and Manu showed us that he needs help. Tiago isn’t gonna improve that much and Khawi isn’t a playmaker and wont be for a while…….

Titletown99030507d

It isnt sexy but it’s safe if you want to replicate what we just achieved. Minus the kawhi missed free throw or 1 rebound in game 6 and Timmy’s missed put back in game 7 I think we in the hunt again. We are just one scoring wing away as well.

I don’t know if the FO has any thoughts or interest in this article but what do you think?

Wrong. Where you we 4-2 GS. Tiago is a great system player that’s why he’s still here and got the money. I have always said if that guy plays big minutes and pop doesnt mess and tinker with his minutes he will produce and produce big. He’s a type of player that needs large minutes to get on a roll. You sit him and the air comes out of him. Simple solution. Play him. As far as rebounds any body can benefit from playing alongside Timmy. Blair did. But he couldnt guard the big guys that’s why he’s probably gone. And he had no shot as well. The points he got were mainly in trash time where nobody was playing under pressure and they chucking up shots to see where they fall. You know it’s quite different for these guys in the meat of the game and when it matters.

But enough of blasting people. One thing you havent understood yet is where Tiago can thrive for this team is the fact that he can go to the line often and sink his free throws. (regular season, refs looked the other way in the playoffs and finals). Take a look this season now that he’s got big money or respectable money refs will treat him different this coming season. He’s going to the line! We just need for Tony and company to realized this and take advantage of it. This and the fact that his FT% is better will be key moving forward. Plus no one’s complaining about the job he did on Gasol and the front court. TD they are called matchups. How many teams can defend small ball with two bigs? What I thought. You put your best big man when we have those match ups and the last time I checked the best big man we got is Timmy. They’re called adjustments and pop needs to get a scoring/defending wing to add to that small ball lineup to counter that. Too bad SJ got booted we could sure used him.

Titletown99030507d

You don’t roll with two bigs against a small ball lineup anyway. You put your best big out there and surround him with small ball – scoring wings, PG’s etc…

We’ll worry about that when Timmy leaves. Anyway who’s gonna care about that when that time comes? When that time comes it will be a moot point. I’m sure you’ll be glad we stuck with the same line up + a new piece once the season starts again. Here we go again with the haters. Just support your team and don’t blast them. Figures your not even here supporting them.

STIJL

A lot of plus/minus reation regarding the signings of Splitter and Ginobili.

I for one would liked to have seen a “splash” type of player added to the roster. But realize that ONE player the Spurs may have eventually got might have taken too much time in negotiation to solidify a deal with who they knew they wanted to keep.

Fair market is what Splitter and Ginobili is receiving. Kudos to Spurs and both players for getting this done now. The Spurs can now bide their time and wait until other teams overpay the free agents on the market and then concentrate on getting the best available after all the dust and smoke has cleared the free agent market.

And make no doubt about it, this years free agent class is one of the best in a while. So somebody who will be a benefit to the Spurs will be available. Maybe not the “best” player. But they will be an upgrade for team non the less.

And in knowing that and knowing this team was 28 seconds away from defeating the best talented team in the league, all the Spurs need is just one really good player out of this free agent class to improve their chances again next season. It can be done people. Again, maybe not the “big splash” player (including myself who thought would be targeted), but a second to best available player would still improve this team significantly comparing to what they achieved last season.

Now we can debate who that should be. For me, it should be a known commodity as a back up PG to Tony. In all other positions, the Spurs interchanged the pieces very well.

STIJL

As explained in the video, at minimum salary I wouldn’t mind a chance taken on Oden. If he proves he has overcome past injuries and if they truly are not career ending types to recover from, Oden would be a huge improvement. But it would be a chance that only minimum salary would warrant in trying. And regardless of the “better” fit arguement, if some other team were to offer more moeny, that’s were Oden will go.

Jerome Solanum

Anyone know what “in-depth and performance-specific statistical analysis” he’s referring to? I wasn’t sure, but I’d like to read more about it.

TD BestEVER

But paying alot of money for players who CONTRIBUTE LITTLE is not smart…Manu should be lucky to get 5 million a year since he has clearly lost a step and he is still my 2nd fav player on the team. And TD is 37 turning 38….Tiago at 28 isn’t even good enough to STAY on the floor but is worth 9 million…… Gutless move by the FO….unless they make a trade its gonna come down to whether TD/TP can recreate their success from past year which is asking a bit too much IMO

TD BestEVER

I agree about the SJ thong but too my point is simply this…… IF the Spurs had David West, Milsap, Or Jefferson we wouldn’t have went small vs Miami……we would have DARED LBJ to guard our post players and beat him up the way the Pacers did……..

Pacers and Spurs both lost because the COACH CHOCKED……. both teams should have won in 6 games but the Best big on both teams went to the bench trying to match up as oppose to trying to protect the rim and rebound……

Dr. Who

Well Belinelli is in the books now. Didn’t see that one coming. Wonder if the offers for Neal were too high? The only way for AK to get here would be a sign and trade. deColo would be the most likely since Belli can play some point and DeColo did whine about PT during the playoffs. They can probably work a S&T around 7MM for AK. But it’s doubtful, the slurs never go after the “trade rumors” they are linked to. With Belli, Ak and the rest of the gang I’d b one happy camper! Which mean AK ain’t coming here…

Melbourne Spur

Haters? Whoa. We actually just have an opinion about our team that we love that disagrees with yours. I think your love of the big Brazilian is making you a bit emotional about this. Most of us agree that Tiago is a great system player and fits in well with what we do. We’re not arguing that. What I have said is that I think he is overpaid, because he is not that valuable to anyone else so why do we need to pay him so much, and that he does not make the Miami’s of the world play big to match up with us because he is not good enough. Therefore we need to go small, and he becomes useless at those times, eg the Finals this year. In that way I think we won’t improve against a Miami or team of that ilk next season with the same team, save for personal improvements from Kawhi, Tiago and maybe a Joseph or something like that. I think Green was at his ceiling in the finals apart from games 6 and 7, so we can’t expect more from him going forward. I don’t think those personal improvements alone will be enough, hence why I would have preferred taking the risk on a Josh Smith instead of Tiago.
That’s just my opinion, not hate.
And your last line is ridiculous – “figures you are not even here supporting them”. I should move my family, business and life to another country to follow a sporting team? Maybe when Tiago retires and goes back to play in Brazil you should do the same.

Melbourne Spur

I’d love it if they took the chance with Oden. No downside but potentially big upside if the kid can get healthy.

Melbourne Spur

I like the Belinelli signing, especially since it realistically means Neal isn’t returning. He can shoot, handle the ball, and without checking I think he is a bit taller than Neal too, which should help on D. Cheap too.
I would love it if we could get AK as well. Don’t know how, but I think he would be an X factor for us big time coming in as the first big off the bench, or starting him and having Splitter back to the second unit with Manu and Belinelli. Manu, Splitter, and Belinelli as a second unit, with say Diaw and Joseph/Mills would be a better unit than half the starting lineups in the league.

Patrick

The thing is, Portland was already rumored to be very interested. They needed him to sign now so that they don’t get into a bidding war later. As Howard, Smith, Millsap, etc. sign the teams that miss out on them get desperate and next thing you know a team like Sacramento will throw him a deal worth 12million a year out of desperation. I think it was a great move by the FO to pounce on him now before his value became inflated.

Patrick

Stay on the floor in a bad matchup? You can’t build a team JUST to beat the Heat. That would prove pointless if you can’t beat either LA team, Memphis, potentially Houston if they get Dwight. You can’t judge a player on his worst matchup. It’s about what he did in those 89 games as well.

Dr. Who

I like Belli especially since he’s already played with Manu so they will be a good fit together. Plus he’ll give them a bit of what manu was lacking offensively this year. I think AK is wishful thinking, but hey we all can dream. Love AK’s wingspan!

Melbourne Spur

Nice point. That makes me more comfortable with his price with that line of thinking.

TheFG21

Manu and Tiago’s contracts are Ok. For reference, Al Jeff signed a $15mil/year deal. In Tiago’s case, maybe they thought about grabbing someone from FA but if they didnt get it? And Tiago signed w/ another team? What would happened? Im sure it wasnt even an option (let Tiago walk).

MarcoB sign was very nice also. D improvement over Neal with more or less the same Offense; w/ the difference that Marco creates plays and read the court much better.

Dennis Logue

Any one of 4 plays goes the Spurs way in the final 30 seconds of Game 6 and the Spurs are champions and they are looking to keep the team together for another title run. Every player played a part in getting them where the Spurs got, even if they didn’t have a huge role in the Finals. You need wins during the grind of the regular season to get a high seed and home court advantage. Those wins come from backups playing hard and knowing their roles. Keeping Tiago and Manu and Bonner and Diaw means something.

Not sure about the swap of Neal for Bellinelli, but it might be financially necessary. I think Kawhi showed in Game 7 that he may be ready to be option #2 offensively. Improved D from Deshaun Thomas could make him a steal in the 2nd round. I would love to have seen the Spurs find a way to bring in Howard for less than the max, but with the idea that he, Leonard and Parker would emerge as a new big 3.

Titletown99030507d

Im Not Going Anywhere I Was Born And Raised Here And Followed My Spurs Since They Changed Their Name From The Dallas Chaperells To THe Spurs When They Were Being Rented From The DallAs Ownership. I HaveSpent My Money On Them Since The Birth Of Them. So Dont Tell Me Where I Need To Go. And When Tiago Retires A Spurs Ill still Be Here Spending My Money On My Spurs And Supporting Them.
And Youll Still Be On The Other Side Of The World Wishing You Were Here.

Titletown99030507d

Man You Still Butt Hurt TiagoGot The Money And Blair Didnt.
Let It Go. TiAgo Will – Prove You Wrong Again. And If WE HAve To Go Up AgainSt ThE Heat Again Leave It Up To Pop. Hell Figure It Out.

Titletown99030507d

WoW I Picked Belli Or Casspi To Come On Board. Nice. Well We Are Tapped Out Now. Any Leftovers Will Be Thrown At Thomas If HE shows Any Thing In The Summer League. Or Maybe Oden For Dirt Cheap. ExciTing!

Titletown99030507d

Blame Pop Not Tiago.

Spurs fan in Australia

So Titletown does that mean I am less of a fan because I live in Australia? I didn’t realse proximity to San Antonio is what made someone a bigger fan.

WSSNW

Everybody calm down about Kawhi. In the year he becomes a free agent the Spurs are commented to Splitter and zzzzz. That’s right no one else. The cap will be around $61M then. Splitters $9M will not stop the Spurs from resigning Kawhi. Let’s say Tony, wants the same money and Kawhi wants Tony money. Tony($12M) plus Kawhi($12M) plus Splitter($9M) equals. Thats $33M. That still leaves $25M to sign the rest of the team. By that point the Spurs will need to either have drafted/developed /traded for another impact player. If not they have to money to get one.

WSSNW

Josh Smith is worse player than Splitter? Why would you take a chance hoping he will get better. Don’t be fooled by the highlights.

WSSNW

One more thing about Splitter. This was his first year as a starter. He’s played 3 years in the league. His numbers have gotten better every year. He has not hit his ceiling yet. These are his career numbers.

That’s actually misleading. Most players with increased minutes have increased total numbers. On a per-minute basis, for 2012-13 compared to 2011-12 he was lower in points, rebounds, and blocks, which to me are his most important categories on a strictly statistical basis. That’s not getting better every year, and goes against Title’s opinion that he plays better with more minutes. He’s not going to become more athletic to be able to finish at the rim better, I doubt he’ll develop extended range, he won’t suddenly become a rim protector…. Where do you all expect this improvement to come from other than bigger numbers because of bigger minutes????
Again, I like the guy for our team. He is great in the P&R, he is a better than average low block defender, and Title is right when he says he draws fouls, but I am not looking at him or his improvement to add to our chances of winning the title compared to this year.

Patrick

I agree with what Melbourne said. Tiago’s rebounding rate, block rate, and points per 40 all went down, however is assist rate went up and turnover rate saw some nice improvement. But overall, I think he’s tapped out at this point. He’s 28 and with no jumper to even build on, I just don’t see any significant improvements happening.

TD BestEVER

It’s OFFICIAL….Spurs FO are cowards…… afraid to shake things up AT ALL…… The ship is clearly falling apart and rather than retool on the fly they are just happy to go down with TD/Manu and afterwards just let the team fall back into the lottery……

Paul Milsap just singed a two year deal worth 19MIllion dollars…..That’s Tiago money…..for a player at least twice as good offensively and just as good on D……. So all the That’s the going rate people can eat their words now….because the going rate for Splitter should be about 5 mill…Or Kosta Koufus Money……

Here’s to PRAYING TD can find the fountain of youth again and the other teams including the Rockets don’t figure out how to slow TP again in the playoffs…… because Splitter isn’t going to give us ANYTHING if TP gets slowed down and Milsap could have given us plenty to take the load off those guys. including a BIG BODY that we can use in Small ball lineups and still be effective on the boards……..

Titletown99030507d

Then start getting disappointed. But really you and Patrick are dead wrong. You don’t sit someone whose on a roll like pop does. Just watch every game and you’ll see what I’m talking about. And whats’ wrong with going to the line. If anything it disrupt’s the flow of the opposing offense. That counts for something. I’m sure if Tiago was getting his calls that Miami offense would have been slowed down a bit further. I believe slowing them down and not trying to match the up and down court play with those guys we would have more of an advantage the way Timmy was playing this year.

The rim protector theory comes into play mostly when we go up against small ball.

When we go up against big front courts they tend to be kept back by Timmy’s and Tiagos’ defense. And when we go up against small ball the only big most of the game is Timmy don’t blame Tiago for that. Pop better start trusting this guy for the money he’s getting. He will improve as he gets the playing time he’s supposed to be getting and that goes for when we are going small as well. How the hell else is some one going to improve in that aspect if Timmy’s playing the bulk of the minutes. My prediction this coming season is Timmy will have a harder time towards the end of the season because of endurance. This is where the trust comes in. It will pay off. And if it doesn’t they can always trade him to a club that will utilize him efficiently.

Titletown99030507d

Pop won’t let him shoot! If he was smart he would get chip to help him in that regard. He helped his free throw% I don’t see why he can’t work with him right now with his outside shot. Blair started to make a few shots towards the end of season during trash time. If he can improve so can Tiago. I think it’s a more of a “Tiago don’t shoot Let Timmy take his 8 of 20 shots” type of thing.

d. iyer

I agree that the FO does not like to shake things up. When it comes to signing a major free agent, they act like it is a sin. Now I agree that the system has worked making the team contenders for the last decade. But that was with the big 3 in their primes. Now they are a year older with most likely their last run in the Duncan era.

I understand the philosophy about corporate knowledge, culture, and character. I wouldn’t want a player like Dwight or demarcus on the team. But how did we pass up on Milsap? High character guy who is much better than Splitter. We overpaid Tiago and Manu. Sure Manu has a legacy here but I’m sure he would have taken less money to remain a Spur.

I think times have changed and the FO needs to look into free agency aggressively to contend in the future. You won’t necessarily draft a legend every decade. And we need to get rid of players like Blair that we don’t use in the playoffs. I really hope we get AK47 to salvage this overpaying disaster.

Dr. Who

And the Spurs sign Jeff Pendergraph??? Well, it isn’t a bad signing more a Boylen sign than anything else. He’s worked with the guy. Althletc, 6’9″, 250lbs and comes with a coaches approval… Spurs could do worse. This most likely signals the end for Blair or Bonner. Should be interesting to see which one goes.

TD BestEVER

I agree about Blair(my 3rd fav player in the NBA) and Manu(my 2nd fav player in the NBA). Both could have been gone if it meant signing a Marcin Gortat, or any other Legit BIG who can power this team in the furture…… What does Asik from Houston Make…. he is a real big body that will fit well in our defensive system……

d. iyer

If we can get Asik, we are in business. Plus he doesn’t want to be in Houston with Dwight. I say package Blair and a guard.

TD BestEVER

OK I did some digging……. These are all players making LESS than 9 million next year who would fit our team EVEN BETTER……….