Agreed I wish people would not get sick but they do becuase we live in a natural world.

But you just claimed:

Quote

We can always find what we want to believe.

Which is it? You are making contradictory claims.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

Over 2000 years and counting; yet another bit of evidence that Lucifer is more powerful than nathan's god.

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"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

no one must realize we live in a natural world with disease. anyother opinion is not logical

According to the bible you believe in, all sickness - colds, flus, headaches, were caused by demons, and the term disease may not have even existed at the time.. Any other opinion is not logical - demons were the explanation for ailments according to the bible, and the physicians of the time, including Jesus, were also miracle-healers, which at the time, were actually a dime-a-dozen. Numerous miraculous miracle-workers, however, Jesus sticks out as the religious highlight of an ancient great physician...

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"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger.""If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me. Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

no one must realize we live in a natural world with disease. anyother opinion is not logical

So your previous statment was incorrect. You acknowledge you are capable of making incorrect judgements.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

According to the bible you believe in, all sickness - colds, flus, headaches, were caused by demons, and the term disease may not have even existed at the time.. Any other opinion is not logical - demons were the explanation for ailments according to the bible, and the physicians of the time, including Jesus, were also miracle-healers, which at the time, were actually a dime-a-dozen. Numerous miraculous miracle-workers, however, Jesus sticks out as the religious highlight of an ancient great physician...[/quote]

Your interpetation of sickness is incorrect. Becuase of Adam and Eves sin we all experience death, pain, suffering etc. It was not caused by god it is the natural world we live in. You guys make it more spiritual then I do Wow

now now lets leave those that can't defend themselves out this. Stop labeling people. Good luck folks I am singing off. your lack of proof that god does not exist forces me to believe you are crazy.

In all seriousness thank all of you that responded. it is always good to get different perspectives. I will have to figure out a way to get proof for all of you. it obviously will take time.

Be Blessed and I pray God does show himself to all of you acceptp Lucifer you already know he exists.

You've yet to prove Zathar does not exist, yet Lucifer and I have given our testimony to his existence. You know Zathar demands that you give up your God for him because he will save the world from the Quasars and those who believe in him will be granted an eternity in his special Nebula where you're able to have all that you wish and live in harmony. Why worship your God when Zathar actually exists and the consequence of not worshipping him is the potential risk of destroying the earth and you be severely punished for it.

Can you prove to me that my statements are wrong?

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“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto MusashiWarning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

now now lets leave those that can't defend themselves out this. Stop labeling people. Good luck folks I am singing off. your lack of proof that god does not exist forces me to believe you are crazy.

In all seriousness thank all of you that responded. it is always good to get different perspectives. I will have to figure out a way to get proof for all of you. it obviously will take time.

Be Blessed and I pray God does show himself to all of you acceptp Lucifer you already know he exists.

You've yet to prove Zathar does not exist, yet Lucifer and I have given our testimony to his existence. You know Zathar demands that you give up your God for him because he will save the world from the Quasars and those who believe in him will be granted an eternity in his special Nebula where you're able to have all that you wish and live in harmony. Why worship your God when Zathar actually exists and the consequence of not worshipping him is the potential risk of destroying the earth and you be severely punished for it.

Can you prove to me that my statements are wrong?

Nope Zather exists. is a childs game called War of warcraft. Does your mommy know your are playing with matches?

Agreed I wish people would not get sick but they do becuase we live in a natural world. I wish that people starving all over the world could be fed but greed does not allow that to happen. I wish that the people being slaughtered just becuase they are of a different ethniticity was not happening but it does becuase racism reigns in someplaces. I wish war would end but deep hatered does not letthat happen. I wish God would appear so everyone could see Him but why should he since the last time he was her he go cruxified.

We live in a sick dying world bound on self distruction becuase of lucifer.

Nathan, you have a very sad view of our planet. You need a boatload of meds and years of therapy.There is no god there never was. Get over it and learn to live this life and appreciate it.I can't believe one of these nut bags may run the USA it's a very scary thought. Yahweh believers on one side, Allah believers on the other. I feel such sorrow for all the mammals on my doomed planet.

beer anyone?

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The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Your interpetation of sickness is incorrect. Becuase of Adam and Eves sin we all experience death, pain, suffering etc. It was not caused by god it is the natural world we live in. You guys make it more spiritual then I do Wow

isn't it great how human ability has basically said in so many cases "fuck you god, so much for your punishment of disease"?

Nice to see that you, Nate, pick and choose what you want your god to be responsible for. such a pretty magic decoder ring you have.

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

no one must realize we live in a natural world with disease. anyother opinion is not logical

So your previous statment was incorrect. You acknowledge you are capable of making incorrect judgements.

Can't we all be wrong at some point and time. I never claimed to know everything.

Fine. You acknowledge you can be wrong. Good.

Demonstrate to me that you weren't wrong when you thought you saw demons.

Furthermore, and without dodging, answer my four questions:

I state (1) I exist,(2) I am male,(3) I live in the United States,(4) and I am actually an incarnation of the one and only Loki, the Norse God.

For each of these four claims, do you believe me?, yes or no.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 02:49:54 PM by Hatter23 »

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

You've yet to prove Zathar does not exist, yet Lucifer and I have given our testimony to his existence. You know Zathar demands that you give up your God for him because he will save the world from the Quasars and those who believe in him will be granted an eternity in his special Nebula where you're able to have all that you wish and live in harmony. Why worship your God when Zathar actually exists and the consequence of not worshipping him is the potential risk of destroying the earth and you be severely punished for it.

Can you prove to me that my statements are wrong?

Nope Zather exists. is a childs game called War of warcraft. Does your mommy know your are playing with matches?

He doesn't exist in World of Warcraft, Zathar doesn't have the time to play WoW, he's busy saving the universe. As Zathar is real, you are condemning yourself and putting our planet at risk by not worshipping him.

If you cannot prove that my statements are wrong, then I cannot take you seriously.

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“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto MusashiWarning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

So I fear people in to accepting Christ because I believe through my life experience there is a hell and people will spend eternity there. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs and I respect them but I have seen demons, had experiences that prove Lucifer exists (still has no power) and seeks to destroy people for eternity. There is only one way to know and that will be the day we all die. in that day we will know if we are right or wrong.

Let me correct your grammar here. You terrify people into believing in Jesus because your experiences in life lead you to believe that hell exists and that people will spend eternity there. So...what difference is there between your actions and the actions of other people who use terror to force others into accepting something they want? The simple fact is that there isn't. It's wrong to use terror to try to force people into making a decision the way you want them to. The means you use shapes the end you seek.

Quote from: NATHAN

You do have to accept the gift of Salvation through Jesus. Your right. I bet if someone offered you a millions you would take it.

If someone offered me a million dollars, with the same terms as your salvation through Jesus, you had better believe I wouldn't accept it. "If you worship me for all your days, I'll give you a million dollars after you die". See the problem? This gift of eternal life doesn't come until after someone dies. What sense is there in that? The reason for this Christian belief is because it's impossible to verify anything that happens after someone dies, therefore promises about what happens after death are "safe". People don't want to believe that once they die, that's it, so they buy into those promises about what happens after, wrongly believing that they're better off by believing than by not believing.

Quote from: NATHAN

I am trying to present fact and I am sorry if you take it as intimated but there is a time coming when I guess we will all know the truth about heaven or hell.

The thing is, you aren't presenting fact. You're presenting opinion. You have no evidence, no way to prove your statements true. By definition, then, what you're saying is your opinion. And to be blunt, I'm not at all intimidated by your opinion on this matter.

Nathan, I have issued you a warning for trolling. You will cease pretending to be an idiot in order to take advantage of the forum membership. If you are not interested in engaging in earnest, as the person you actually are, then you should move on. This is not a place for playing pretend and being selfish.

The consequence for further transgressions is having all of your posts moderated by a responsible adult.

I refuse nothing. Explain to me, simply and clearly, how I can have a personal experience with your god. But I expect two things from that explanation. Firstly, I want your guarantee that if I follow your words exactly, I will get that personal experience.

Do you really want Him in your life? If not this is an exercise in futility. Also I am charged to assist you in this process and am making myself available to you.

Thank you for that Nathan - but I didn't see in there your guarantee that I would have that personal experience.

I'm also confused - at one stage you say "church isn't important", but later you say "find a local church". Which is it?

Actually, where I live, a mosque is nearer to me than a church - would that be acceptable?

I'm also confused - at one stage you say "church isn't important", but later you say "find a local church". Which is it?

Church is a body of People that believe in Jesus. It does not mean a big building. I have issues with the corporate still church system in the US. There is no way for 10,000 people to be discipled correctly. It is about a small group of people with relation to assist each other. That is church.