How do the top men rank now that the season's begun?

Hanyu has just gotten a perfectly clean "world record" SP at SA. He is viewed by some as the best ever since Plushenko. Kozuka is back this season with a fully rotated quad in SP and a fully rotated quad in LP plus a quad combo. Even though the quad in the combo was UR, three quads almost all successful in one competition for Kozuka is brandnew this season. Takahashi was roaring at the pre-season pro-am Japan Open with a successful quad and attempt for a quad combo. Chan faltered badly at the same event with no URs or DGs but bad landings. Chan's 10 fall or even 5 or 6 fall cushions were proved never existed. In addition, Chan's advantage ahead of all other top skaters from last two seasons are shrinking at least in this season. Plushenko was great as usual but showed a little bit his age at the end on 2A. Though Plushenko won't confront any of these skaters this season.

And here I thought this would be a thread to discuss great skaters from the past and what they're doing these days.

If there's something I've learned as a skating fan, it's not to speculate based on one GP (and the JO). Some skaters start strong, others peak later. How many people predicted Gachi would medal in 2011, and Fernandez as a GPF medalist, TakaTran in pairs or Alena Leonova winning silver at Worlds in the ladies last year? How many people thought Lysacek would win Worlds and later the OGM at this point in the 2008-9 season? Once we get maybe halfway through the Grand Prix, this discussion might be more interesting. Until then, it's just an excuse to go on about who does or doesn't have a X fall advantage over whom.

No offense, I've heard too many times about Chan's advantages, and so on and so on, fair or unfair. Now I just hope to have a place for the same posters and great many others and hear now what they think about this whole top men's field. I think it is a legitimate discussion. Haven't people already crowned Hanyu as the best ever?

No offense, I've heard too many times about Chan's advantages, and so on and so on, fair or unfair. Now I just hope to have a place for the same posters and great many others and hear now what they think about this whole top men's field. I think it is a legitimate discussion.

Exactly. It's been rehashed endlessly - by you as well, on the side stating that his scores are fair. Why do we need another debate about how many falls various skaters should be allowed? Why did you choose to frame the discussion that way?

Exactly. It's been rehashed endlessly - by you as well, on the side stating that his scores are fair. Why do we need another debate about how many falls various skaters should be allowed? Why did you choose to frame the discussion that way?

Frame what discussion?! I'm not aware of it. Do I have the power to frame a discussion?! No, I'm just a poster like everyone else who do not fear to state my opinions which sometimes controversial. Thanks to freedom of speech! They were just my opinions. The same like how you've been stating your opinions.

Obviously you've cared enough about this topic so that you've jumped in right away to play the opponent of mine. I don't mind at all that people have the totally opposit opinions from mine. In fact, I'd love to know the opposit opinions. Discussion would bring more ideas and would help to find answers - hopefully there will be answers.

ETA:

The situation has changed. I think people's opinions have changed accordingly as well. Why couldn't we have a new discussion about this now?

Maybe it would help if we just simply called it Men's figure skating 2012-2013? That way we can keep the thread up all the year long?

I am in favor!

Because I was critical of the way Bluebonnet framed her question, let me take a crack at it myself...

With the Japan Open, several senior Bs and the first GP of the season in the books, we've already had a glimpse at quite a few skaters, while others should make their season debut soon. Starting with the top 5 at Worlds, what might we expect this season from:

Patrick Chan, who's made a coaching change, a choreo change, and had a poor start at the JO?
Daisuke Takahashi, who sadly went back to Morozov; can he show that he is capable of skating to the best of his ability outside Japan? Will the judges take note?
Yuzuru Hanyu, who's a huge talent but whose stamina remains an issue? Can Brian Orser find the right training regimen for Yuzuru and Pooh?
Brian Joubert - will his strong finish last season get him going in the right direction? Can he get the FFSG's full support and hold off...
Florent Amodio, who has traded placements with Joubert both nationally and internationally and whose programs remain rather too Morozovian for many people's tastes?

Will Javier Fernandez be able to keep going strong for a full season? How will the situation with the Japanese men shake out? Is Nobu back? Will Verner ever be back? Will Brezina ever break through and/or skate two good programs at the same event? Can Plushy win Euros again? Can Gachi return to form? Can the Russian men get at least two spots for the Olympics? Will Abbott ever deliver when it matters? Can Johnny make the World Team? Can Evan? Will Evan really compete? Was Finlandia a one-off for Dornbush or is he the real deal? Is Nathan Chen going to win JW before he even turns 14? Will Jason Brown get a haircut? Is KvdP truly done? Who will be the first to land a ratified 4F and 4R?

See, I think there's plenty to discuss when it comes to the men, without ever bringing the issues of falls and unfair advantages into it.

Those were all interesting topics. But I think that if they are all in one thread, it'll be so hard to find a discussion about a specific skater in a big thread later. If the mods want to change the thread into what you've suggested, I will have no problems. I myself wouldn't want to have a huge thread for all men in there which would create a headache, at least to me, to find specific infos a few months down the road.

Those were all interesting topics. But I think that if they are all in one thread, it'll be so hard to find a discussion about a specific skater in a big thread later. If the mods want to change the thread into what you've suggested, I will have no problems. I myself wouldn't want to have a huge thread for all men in there which would create a headache, at least to me, to find specific infos a few months down the road.

I guess I have a broader definition of "top men" than you do. At the very least, I think this group should also include the top Americans and Europeans skating at the senior level. Why didn't you call this thread Chan vs. the Japanese men, if that's what you wanted to focus on?

I guess I have a broader definition of "top men" than you do. At the very least, I think this group should also include the top Americans and Europeans skating at the senior level. Why didn't you call this thread Chan vs. the Japanese men, if that's what you wanted to focus on?

If you think there are other skaters could challenge these four men, by all means, please bring them here! I just don't think any Americans or Europeans except Plushenko could take down all of these four at once. The way I see it, this season it's not Chan vs. the Japanese men. It's Takahashi vs. Hanyu vs. Kozuka vs. Chan. I honestly don't know who is stronger at this point?

If you think there are other skaters could challenge these four men, by all means, please bring them here! I just don't think any Americans or Europeans except Plushenko could take down all of these four at once. The way I see it, this season it's not Chan vs. the Japanese men. It's Takahashi vs. Hanyu vs. Kozuka vs. Chan. I honestly don't know who is stronger at this point?

Oda looked really good at Nebelhorn, so he should be part of the picture. Dornbush could as well -- he actually had a higher TES score in the FS at Finlandia than Yuzuru, which is quite a feat considering that Yuzuru himself scored 90 points! Also Fernandez should not be counted out either....

No they weren't. Chan left a lot of content out at Japan Open aside from just the fall mistakes. If he had rotated all the content and fallen 3 times, like last year, he would have won again. And that would be wrong.

I do think it's somewhat interesting how much of a free ride Hanyu has gotten from people given that he gave virtually the exact same performance as Chan did in CoR 2010 (three falls, discounted element in the LP) but Chan was eviscerated alive for it whereas Hanyu's disaster was somehow less of an affront to figure skating enthusiasts. I won't deny that what I see as double standards leaves a bitter after taste in my mouth.