helaldeshi:
These functions of the Prophet s.a.w can never be carried out unless his teachings,both oral and practical, are held to be authoriative for his followers, and the Muslims who are given under his training are made bound to obey and follow him. The function ‘b’ and ‘c’, require that his ‘sayings’ should be binding on the followers, while the function ‘d’ requires thet his ‘acts’ should be an exmple for the ummah, and the ummah should be bound to folllow it.It is not merely a logical inference from the verses(3:164, 62:2 and 2:129), but it is also mentioned in express terms by the Quran in a large number of verses which give the Muslims a mandatory command to obey and follow him. While doing so, the Quran has used two different terms namely, the ‘ita’ah’ (to obey) and the ‘ittiba’ (to follow). The first term refers to the orders and sayings of the Prophet s.a.w, while the second relates to his acts and practice. By ordering the Muslims both to ‘obey’ and’follow the Prophet s.a.w, the Quran has given an authority t both sayings and acts.

Obedience of the Messenger (the Ita’ah)

It is in this background that the Quran insists repeatedly on the ‘obedience of the Prophet s.a.w’ so much so that it is mentioned side by side with,the obedience of Allah.

Lets see the verses…

‘Say, obey Allah and the Messenger but if they turn their backs Allah loves not the disbelevers’. (3:32)

// even today if you are an AOWL from the army you will be court marsheled and may be put to death.

‘ And obey Allah and the Messenger so that you mabe blessed’.(3:132)

‘Othose who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you’. (4:59)

//yes those in authority among you.

‘And obey Allah and obey the Mesenger and beware’. (5:92)

//yes the ‘and’ argument

‘ So feare Allah and set things right between you and obey Allah and His Messenger if you are belevers’. (8:1)

‘O those who believe, obey Allah and His Messeger and do not turn away from him, while you are listening’’(8:20)

//how to listen to him, only his companions could tell, that’s why we have Ahadith collection. If the nursery teacher tells the young people a rhyme, they will read it but will they understand it as it meant to be, no obviously not. The teacher must explain it to them. Now they have a choice either to obey the teacher and accept his explanation or reject him. Rejecting him is not the best option. Or they can go directly to the person who wrote the rhyme in the first place. That’s not possible either.

On the other hand if we leave it to individual pupil to make their own understanding, in that case you will have something different to what was meant in the first place. Than again some rhymes are easy to understand, but others are no so.

‘And obey Allah and his Messenger and do not quarrel with each other, and so lose heart’.(8:46)

// he the Prophet s.a.w is also a judge for us. His judgement is final, no appeal but there is the suprem court on the final day of judgement. The judgements that the Prophet s.a.w gave in different cases are ineffect law for us. That’s what is known as Sharia law. AND that’s why we need the Ahadith.

The Morden day law is by example cases. The prophet s.a.w has thought us how to apply the rule of the Quran. Every legal case must be judged by the example set by the Prophet s.a.w or we can follow the man made laws that we have. That is not a wise choice either.

And more..

‘Say, obey Allah and obey the messenger, then if you turn away, upon him rests what is laid on him, and upon you rests what is laid on you. If you obey him,you will be guided’.(24:54)

//yes obey him you will be guided, thus we need to follow his guidence. More on the Follow latter.

‘O thsoe who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and do not make your deeds vain’. (47:33)

‘ So, establish salah and pay jakah and obey Allah and his Messenger’.(58:13)

‘And obey Allah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn yours, Our Messenger has only to deliver the manifest messege’.(64:12)

//in this case the obedience of the Messenger have been orderedand an obligatory command. There are other verses in which the the result of the ‘obedience of the Messenger’ have been described. Here again the ‘obedience of the Messenger’ have been combined with the obedience of Allah’:

‘And whoever obeys Allah and his messenger, they are in the company of those whom Allah has blessed’.(4:69)

‘All that the believers say,when they are called to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them,is that they say, ‘we hear, and we obey:’ it is those who are successful. whoever obeys Allah and his messenger and fear Allah and has awe of him-it is these who are the winners’.(24:52)

//we fear only Allah not the messenger s.a.w, which is mentioned explictly above to mean that the Allah and the Messgener are indeed two separate entity. And both are to be obyed.

‘And whoever obeys Allah and his messenger, he has won a great success’.(33:71)

‘And the beleivers, men andwomen, are fiends of each other, they bid the fair and forbid the unfair; they establish salah and pay zakah and they obey Allah and His Messenger. These are those upon whom Allah shall have mercy; Allah is All Mighty All Wise’.(9:71)

// if all AND ment to be BOTH then salah, jakah, Allah, Messenger are one. If a student is told to ‘obey the code of conduct and his teacher’. It does not mean that all the teachings are in the code of conduct, rather what it implies is that you are to obey your teacher as long as it does not contradict/conflict the code of conduct.

‘If you obey Allâh and His Messenger, He will not diminish you anything of your deeds’. (49:14)

//The Holy Qur’ân has also made it clear that “the obedience of the prophet” is not a new principle, nor is it limited to the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. The same principle applied to all the former prophets who came before him:

‘And we sent no messenger, but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allâh’. (4:64)

//It is also clarified by the Holy Qur’ân that the prophets are the spokesmen of Allâh’s pleasure. Hence, the obedience of the prophet is actually obedience of Allâh Himself.

‘And whoever obeys the Messenger, thereby obeys Allâh’. (4:80)

//As the obedience of the Holy Prophet s.a.w has been stressed by the Holy Qur’ân and has been combined with the “obedience of Allâh,” in the same way “disobedience” of him has been warned against and is combined with the “disobedience of Allâh:” if one says that ‘I obey the law but not the head of state’. Will he be considered a law abiding citizen?. As we understand the head of state has the final say in the matter of law. (of course if you accept that law to be yours).

‘And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger and transgresses His limits, He shall admit him to Fire where he shall remain forever’. (4:14)

‘And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, for him there is the fire of Jahannam. There they shall remain forever’. (72:23)

‘And whoever makes a breach with Allâh and His Messenger, then Allâh is severe in punishment’. (8:13)

‘Did they not come to know that whoever opposes Allâh and His Messenger, for him there is the fire of Jahannam’? (9:63)

//Thus, both positive and negative aspects of the obedience have been dealt with in the Holy Qur’ân and the “obedience of the Holy Prophet s.a.w” in each one of these verses has been mentioned separately, alongwith the obedience of Allâh.It is noteworthy that whenever the “obedience of Allâh” is mentioned in the Holy Qur’ân, it is always followed by the “obedience of the Prophet” which has never been missed even in a single verse. There is no verse in the entire Book where the “obedience of Allâh” has been mentioned alone with no reference to the “obedience of the Messenger.”On the contrary, there are some verses where only the “obedience of the Messenger” has been mentioned, and there is no reference to the obedience of Allâh:

‘And establish salaah and pay zakaah and obey the Prophet so that you may be blessed’. (24:56)

‘And if you obey him (the Prophet), you shall find the right path’. (24:54)

‘On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish that the earth might be levelled with them’. (4:42)

‘And whoever makes a breach with the Messenger after the right path has become clear to him, and follows a way other than that of the believers, We shall let him own what he chose and shall admit him in the Jahannam, and it is evil as a returning place’. (4:115)

//The reason for so much stress upon the “obedience of the Prophet” is that the obedience of Allâh cannot be carried out except through the obedience of the Prophet. Allâh does not address each and every individual to tell him what He requires from him, as the Holy Qur’ân puts it:

‘And it is not possible for a human being that Allâh should speak to him, except by revelation, or from behind a curtain or that He should send a messenger and reveal by His leave what He wills’. (42:51)

//Therefore Allâh conveys His injunctions only through His prophets and His obedience cannot be carried out except by the obedience of the messengers. So, when a prophet bids something or forbids something, he does not do it in his private capacity, rather he does so in the capacity of a messenger of Allâh. When Allâh Himself has given an express command to “obey the Messenger,” the obedience of the Prophet s.a.w is actually the “obedience of Allâh,” though in an indirect manner. This point has been clearly established by the Holy Qur’ân in the following words:

‘And whoever obeys the Messenger, thereby obeys Allâh’. (4:80)

//So, whenever only the “obedience of the Messenger” has been mentioned in the Holy Qur’ân, it includes, without saying, the “obedience of Allâh” because the Messenger does not say anything in the capacity of a Messenger unless he is guided by a revelation from Allâh:‘And he (the Prophet s.a.w does not speak out of his own desire. It is not but a revelation revealed (to him)’. (53:3-4)

//Looked at from this angle, the obedience of the Prophet s.a.w represents the obedience of Allâh and the reference to the former always includes the latter. That is why the Holy Qur’ân in some verses deemed it sufficient to refer to the obedience of the Messenger only, for the practical way to obey Allâh is only to obey the prophet.On the contrary, the Holy Qur’ân did not deem it sufficient to refer to the “obedience of Allâh” without referring to the “obedience of the Messenger,” to remove even the remotest excuse for ignoring the “obedience of the Prophet” and to leave no doubt whatsoever in the fact that the obedience of Allâh is not complete unless the obedience of the Prophet s.a.w is fully observed with all its implications.

Thus far what I have said is about the (itaa’ah) obedience of the Prophet s.a.w

I will post about the (ittibaa) the following him. they are not the same thing.

Abdul-Hadi:
Greetings and Peace, all :group:

Monotheism predates AQ and any Messenger/Prophet (Peace upon them all). Today, there is still monotheism and still AQ. One may choose to utilize AQ to follow monotheism--or follow another path to monotheism. As such, no prophet/messenger is necessary. Each part of AQ draws from other parts. The following may ISA shed some light on the matter at hand:

3:79 It is not for any human being that GOD would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: "Be servants to me rather than GOD!" Rather: "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."

14:11 Their messengers said: "We are indeed human beings like you, but GOD will bestow His grace upon whom He pleases from His servants. And it is not up to us to bring you proof except with the permission of GOD. And in GOD the believers should place their trust"

18:110 Say: "I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works, and not serve anyone besides his Lord."

4:125 And who is better in the system than the one who submits himself to GOD, and he is a good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And GOD took Abraham as a friend.

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and heart, all these you are responsible for.

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of GOD; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom GOD has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

ALLAH knows best.

:peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

redsulphur1229:
Over and over again, the Hadith is defended on the basis of the various verses of the Quran that enjoin obedience to the Prophet. For some reason, obedience to the Prophet can only be fulfilled by reference to the Hadith (and thus not the Quran). There are many problems with this line of thinking.

(1) The notion that the Hadith are "authoritative" because some Imams of 9th, 10th etc centuries declared them as such while completely forgetting that hearsay upon hearsay upon hearsay upon hearsay ... can never be established as authoritative. Period.

(2) The instruction to obey either (a) applies to those who were alive during the Prophet's lifetime and were receiving his instructions directly (although even the Hadith shows that Muslims often questioned the Prophet's judgement, and he indulged them by taking their advice and changing his instructions, or by explaining himself); or (b) applies only to the instructions which Allah instructs the Prophet to convey as recorded in the Quran. Throughout the Quran, the Prophet is told to provide certain instructions, and those, for obvious reasons, are the ones that require obedience.

(3) Whenever Hadith are referred to, it always, ultimately results in forgetting and ignoring the Quran.

Nothing in the Quranic requirement to obey the Prophet requires adherence or faith in the Hadith.

In another thread, someone mentioned that adherence to Hadith in the manner that Sunnis advocate is akin to shirk (idolatry) as it entails a sort of quasi-worship of the Prophet and distraction away from the words of the Quran - the more I think about it, and the slippery slope that adherence to Hadith creates, the more I see the wisdom and truth in that statement.

helaldeshi:
What I have said sofar was on the basis of the Quran, I did not mentioned any Hadith or anything else for that matter. What I am pointing to is that the Prophet s.a.w is to be obeyed. The terms for this the Quran uses is (itaa’ah). As Allah mentioned many a times, also the Prophet s.a.w does not speak but what Allah wants him to. Thus if u can take his words (the Quran verses) to be true, so we should take his other words, that he told us to take to be true. after all he is tellig us the Quran. This is simple and Fundamental law of Maths, physics, common sense (Aql). Now it may require a Hadith to prove this, but I shell refrain from quoting Ahadith for now. NowAs an example (a,b,c are words; e,f,g are not words). If we can prove words, then it implies that a,b and c are true. So let start with proving: Let say a is the revelation of the Quran. Prove to me that a is true. With out any help from second person, only your self.(ie. No Bukhari, no R,Khalaifa etc.)a question. wiuld u say The Prophet understood the Quran best or us in the 21st centry???please do shed somelight on itNext I would like to say is about (ittibaa) to follow….

Student of Allah:
Shalom Aleikhem,

How can one disobey a messenger of God ? God never came down on earth and informed me directly. Disobeying His messenger is disobeying Him. For the messenger came with God's message.

I view all prophets and messengers are decent slaves of Allah who shrived for the sake of Allah. God does not send messengers and prophets for kidding with us. I would respect a messenger from US President who comes to inform me , so when the messenger of the Master of the universe comes, naturally I would be more respectful. For He would not chose bad souls for this job.