Wahoo Fitness KICKR Trainer In-Depth Review

The Wahoo KICKR is probably the most anticipated trainer to hit the market in quite a while, if not one of the most anticipated sports technology products for endurance athletes to hit the market. But, how does it live up to the promises and fanfare? Well, I’ve spent the last two months using it week in and week out. Every aspect of this trainer I’ve poked at or dove into. Heck, I even took parts of it apart (with wire cutters!).

In doing so, I’ve got a pretty good grasp on how the unit works, as well as all the details inside and out. Because I want to be transparent about my reviews, once my evaluation period with the Wahoo KICKR has elapsed, I send it back to them in the Atlanta. Simple as that. Sorta like hiking in wilderness trails – leave only footprints.

Lastly, at the end of the day keep in mind I’m just like any other regular triathlete out there. I write these reviews because I’m inherently a curious person with a technology background (my day job), and thus I try and be as complete as I can. But, if I’ve missed something or if you spot something that doesn’t quite jive – just let me know and I’ll be happy to get it all sorted out. Also, because the technology world constantly changes, I try and go back and update these reviews as new features and functionality are added – or if bugs are fixed.

Unboxing:

First, let’s get this thing unboxed. Twice.

Here’s the outer shipping box that the KICKR comes in. If you buy your KICKR via the interwebs, it’ll likely come in this box.

Thus, if you buy your KICKR at a local bike shop, you’ll likely find it looking more like this:

From there you’ll crack open the outer shell and find the protective cardboard inside. Mine held up pretty well given the travelling it did. It first flew from Taipei to Las Vegas via UPS. Then, I dragged it across the Vegas CES show floor to my hotel (no easy feat for those familiar with Vegas). After that, I took it from Vegas to Houston to Paris via commercial airliner (checked luggage). And then finally, I dragged it again through the subways of Paris to my apartment. I’d imagine it should hold up pretty well in a mini-van ride home from the bike shop.

Below the cardboard is the KICKR, fully packaged up in plastic.

After removing the KICKR, you’ll find another small box and a manual.

Inside the small box is the power block. It’s 100-240v, with a replaceable US cable on it. As I’ll discuss later, the power block itself works just fine in Europe.

Then we’ve got the quick start guide. Though, I highly doubt you’ll need it after this post.

Below is a plastic clip for disc brakes on mountain bikes, to keep them from potentially becoming engaged while riding the trainer.

Thus, with all the pieces taken out of the box, here’s what you’ve got. The trainer, the power cord, a small manual and warranty statement, and then the little plastic doohickey.

All good?

Good.

Let’s take a quick tour of the unit before we dive into it.

First up to note is that you’ll unfold the legs for riding, allowing you to store it in smaller spaces. There’s a handle on the back to pick it up – it says ‘Crank it up’ on it.

The legs that fold out have these all-metal clips on them. They feel strong and I don’t suspect they’ll break.

As I’ll discuss in more detail in the next section, the trainer includes a cassette, which is pre-mounted onto the flywheel. It also includes the training skewer.

Down below, you’ll see a small round knob, along with a blue metal lever. This allows you to control the height of the KICKR. This is of use for different tire sizes, so the rider isn’t so high off the ground (perfect for The Girl with her 650 wheels).

Finally, note on the backside of the unit, the large flywheel isn’t ‘open’ like some trainers, rather closed. The entire flywheel does rotate though, including where you see those silver arrows (it rotates in that direction).

With the high level overview complete, lets start getting detailed.

Weight/Size Comparisons:

When it comes to size, the unit is definitely the heftiest of the bunch…by far. As in, put that kid on a diet and take away the marshmallows! Yes folks, that’s pounds below:

46 pounds in total (about 21kg)!

To put that in perspective, the CompuTrainer weighed in at 22 pounds, and the Tacx Genius at 25 pounds, and the LeMond Revolution at 34 pounds.

Now, I don’t think the weight is really a bad thing. Yes, beastly, but not bad. It’s stable, and that’s one of my most important trainer aspects. I HATE wobbly trainers. The weight likely comes from the components. The thing is made out of steel for all major components. Which means that it will hopefully last a long time. Where it does pose a slight problem is for those folks that may take trainers with them while travelling. Most airlines have a 50-pound weight limit for checked luggage (without additional fees), and this just sorta barely slides in under that.

When people talk about the CompuTrainer, there’s one thing they always say: “It’s build like a rock”, which is immediately followed by “I’ve had mine for 10 years, and it still keeps on ticking”. I think from a materials standpoint, the KICKR is in the same ballpark. Of course, time will be the true test.

From an electronics standpoint, having Bluetooth 4.0 and ANT+ in there should make it relatively future proof for a while. You can still connect modern smart-phones with legacy Bluetooth headsets from years ago, and thus I don’t see backwards compatibility being an issue anytime in the next 6-10 years.

Lastly…one final thing to touch on.

LeMond Revolution Pro this is not. It’s funny, a lot of folks have made observations that the Wahoo KICKR is simply a rip-off of the LeMond Revolution Pro Trainer. To help understand why that isn’t the case, let’s run through the main differences.

A) The LeMond trainer is wind-based, thus wind provides resistance. The Wahoo KICKR is electronic. No wind is used, nor emitted.
B) The LeMond trainer does not have resistance control. The Wahoo KICKR does. In other words, you can’t control the LeMond, you can control the KICKR.
C) The LeMond trainer uses private-ANT to communicate between itself and the PowerPilot head unit. Thus no connecting your ANT+ head unit (i.e. Garmin Edge 500) to the LeMond. The KICKR uses open-ANT+, and provides speed and power (and thus distance).
D) The LeMond does not have Bluetooth Smart (or any Bluetooth in it). The Wahoo KICKR does.
E) The LeMond trainer has no API or development aspects to it for 3rd parties. The Wahoo KICKR does.
F) The LeMond trainer does not have an adjustable height. The Wahoo KICKR does. Same goes for adjustable legs.

The point here isn’t to just be a bulleted list of things the LeMond trainer doesn’t do. Instead, juts to be clear on differences. And certainly, there are things the Wahoo KICKR doesn’t do. For example:

A) The Wahoo KICKR is relatively normal from a loudness standpoint. The LeMond trainer is 100db. Not so quiet.
B) The Wahoo KICKR weighs 46 pounds and eat kittens for breakfast. The LeMond trainer weighs a fraction of that.
C) The Wahoo KICKR has a sorta-mostly-realistic road feel. The LeMond Revolution has a very realistic road feel.

As you can see, the KICKR is no more compatible to the LeMond Revolution Pro than a mountain bike is comparable to a road bike. Yes, they both vaguely look the same from a distance, but that’s about where it ends. If you wanted to add up the things that are similar, it’d look roughly like this:

A) Both trainers use a cassette to attach your bike to them.
B) Both trainers have three legs
C) Both trainers have a big round thing on them.
D) Uhh..both trainers attach bikes to them? Umm, end of list.

The LeMond Revolution was actually based on a Russian Physicist design that Greg LeMond worked with in the 1980’s. He adapted it as part of the Revolution Pro. Again, both trainers have their markets, but it’s important that if you’re comparing the two on looks alone, then you’re likely missing the forest from the trees.

Day to day use:

During the next few sections I’m going to walk through using the trainer on a day to day basis, and then after that I’ll dive into some of the 3rd party apps.

Attaching your bicycle to the trainer:

First up, is getting the unit attached to your bicycle. To do so, you’ll be removing your rear wheel. It has no action in this game. Instead, the KICKR comes with a rear cassette that replaces the cassette on your rear wheel. This has both benefits and annoyances. From a benefits side you remove issues around rolling resistance of the wheel itself, as well as wear and tear on the wheel. Trainers are notorious for chewing up wheels (quite literally, leaving fine black dust everywhere). The downside though is that you have to take off your rear wheel and put it back on. Some bikes are easy, and others are a bit of a pain in the butt (such as my P3C). If it were me, I’d probably have preferred not removing my wheel – but that’s just a personal preference.

Once you’ve got your wheel removed, you’re going to go ahead and place it on the skewer that’s provided with the KICKR. I find it easiest to remove the skewer entirely and then thread the skewer in once your bike is on the cassette.

After that’s complete, ensure you tighten up the skewer.

Done, you’re ready to ride.

Now, if you have a smaller bike (or one with a different wheel size), you can also adjust the height of the trainer down along the bottom:

For example, when The Girl rides her bikes, I’ll sometimes remember to adjust it so that it’s lower to the ground for her.

If you haven’t yet plugged the trainer in, be sure to do that. The cable that comes with it plugs into a standard American outlet. But, it’s 100-240v, which means it works anywhere in the world with a simple $1-2 adapter. That’s how I use it over here in France.

In fact, if you want to get all fancy, you can simply change out the actual cable from the power block to the wall. Again, a couple dollars.

Ok, and the power cable plugs into the trainer at the bottom, under it.

With that, let’s start using it.

Pairing with the Wahoo Fitness app

Wahoo Fitness provides the Wahoo Fitness App on the iPhone/iPad platform, which is their fitness application that connects to the trainer and records data. This is the same application that also works outdoors while cycling or running. And, the same application that connects to both ANT+ devices (with the ANT+ adapter), as well as Bluetooth Smart devices (for compatible devices). The applications records your workout, as well as exports the data to any number of formats (i.e. CSV/TCX/etc…) and services (Training Peaks, Nike+, Garmin Connect, Strava, etc…).

After downloading the free app, you’ll be brought here:

Next up is pairing to your KICKR trainer. To do this, we’ll dive into the settings. It’s here we can pair any number of devices – from the KICKR to heart rate straps, to speed and cadence sensors. Note that I created a separate ‘profile’ for the trainer. I do this so that I can disable the GPS on it, and then not mess up my running or outdoor cycling settings with GPS on.

At any rate, within settings we’ll have a list of sensors we can pair with:

We’ll click to add a sensor, and then add a power meter sensor:

Once we do this, it’ll start searching for the Bluetooth Smart power meter device profile. In the event you happen to have a Stages Power Meter nearby, note that it would pick it up as well – so just be aware of which one you pair to.

Once that’s done (and it’ll only take a second), you’ll want to pair any other sensors you have. I recommend picking up the Wahoo Blue SC, since at this time the KICKR doesn’t provide cadence information. The Blue SC does, and will then keep everything Bluetooth Smart.

And finally, pair up a heart rate monitor if you have one:

Next is a REALLY important item, especially if you have the Blue SC. You’ll want to change the speed data to pull the speed data back to the KICKR. Otherwise it’ll pull from the BlueSC, which won’t have any speed data since you won’t have a magnet flying past the magnet since your wheel is off the bike.

And, while you’re at it, ensure that the cadence is coming from the combo sensor, and not from the KICKR.

Finally, you’ll want to scroll down in all the data pages that are offered and ensure the KICKR Training Page is enabled:

There are numerous training pages available to you, below is a quick gallery of them. My only complaint though is that at the end of the day I’d really much rather just customize these myself – like on most devices. Pick and choose them. Sorta like how I can do on the RFLKT. Instead, they are pre-canned and I have to live with whatever I was given, and on the pages they were set. Note when it says ‘Tap to Toggle mode’, it means that you can tap the page to then alternate through variations of that data from Current data (instant), to previous and current laps and averages.

Ok, with all the data pages out of the way, let’s get into controlling the KICKR.

Resistance Control Modes:

The KICKR has four user accessible control modes. Each one of these modes controls the trainer in slightly different ways. All of these modes are found when you enabled the KICKR control page, and are just sub-sections of that page.

Level Mode:

In this mode, the KICKR has a simplified resistance level bands. From 0 to 9. These are somewhat abstract, and simply levels that Wahoo has effectively christened. Just like your stationary bike at the gym has random levels on it, these are sorta random too. But, if you just want an easy option for remembering what setting you had it on last – this is it. I prefer the other options.

Resistance Mode:

This mode simply controls the resistance of the brank unit – on a scale from 0 to 100%, with 100% being ‘full stop’. If you’re thinking of incline, that’s later on in a different mode.

Erg:

Erg mode is without question my favorite, and where I spend the vast majority of my time. It’s simple, and potentially brutal. In this mode you simply specify an exact wattage, and the unit holds it. No messing around here. Input wattage, trainer responds, you hurt. Rinse, repeat. It’s how I do most of my workouts – based on set wattages. You utilize the +/- buttons to increase the digits that make-up the watts. In general, I find the KICKR will adjust it within 1-2 seconds. Enough that it doesn’t stop-you dead if you go from 100w to 400w.

As you’re riding, the unit will show you the target power (what it’s putting out) above, and then the actual recorded power below.

Sim Mode:

Last is ‘Sim Mode’ – short for simulation. In this mode, it allows you to simulate different settings based on not only slope and wind speed, but also rolling resistance. First though, you’d define a slope (i.e. hill), and then you’d define the wind speed (i.e. pain).

Then, you click on the ‘Bike Type’ setting and you can define the exact Coefficient of Rolling Resistance and Drag Coefficient of your setup (primarily your wheels).

I haven’t played with this particular setting too much – but the potential is pretty impressive. There’s plenty of apps and data sources out there today that allows you to pull in and specify this information. Which would primarily serve to better simulate the impact of your tires (and body drag) – given that the KICKR doesn’t otherwise include any of those forces in its equations.

General Wahoo Fitness App Items:

After you’re done riding, you’ll want to save your workout. Note that you can press pause at any time to stop recording. Also note that incoming calls/texts do not impact the KICKR from recording, it’ll continue to do so in the background. At the end of the workout after you’ve pressed stop, you’ll get this screen:

Upon saving you’ll get some workout summary details. This includes overall averages, as well as lap averages. I don’t find the lap averages page terribly useful, primarily due to the lack of power information on there.

From there, if you click the little icon in the upper right corner, it’ll allow you to save it out to various destinations that you’ve pre-configured. In my case, I’ve setup the unit to share to Training Peaks and Garmin Connect. Additionally, I can e-mail the workout files. E-mailing is great because it includes the files in a slew of common formats, that virtually any application on the planet can accept.

If you haven’t setup sharing ahead of time, fear not, the workout is still saved locally and you can share it later. You can pre-configure these sharing options though with a number of services. Below are the current services.

With that, you’re data is transmitted off to the service and you’re good to go.

You can see how I often feel that the best application out there for use on the iPhone and flexibility of the data is actually the default Wahoo App. I’m one who just wants the data in the formats I want it in, and care little about putting it in yet another app’s online site. Thus, this allows me to get it to Training Peaks or Garmin Connect (my two main dumping grounds for files), and not worry about it.

Note that the application supports user profile settings such as setting up heart rate zones, power zones, weight, and audio cues as well. You can see some of the zones information in my various screenshots above.

Feel of the trainer:

A lot of people ask about ‘feel’ when talking about trainers. I’m a horrible person to ask about that. Perhaps because with the exception of the LeMond Revolution Pro, most trainers for me fall into two categories: Feels fine, or feels sucky. The Wahoo KICKR falls into the ‘feels fine’ category. Admittedly, at the upper end of that. The LeMond revolution is the only trainer that I say ‘Yes, I FEEL that!’.

I train so much in erg-mode, that ‘feel’ isn’t really part of the equation. Rather, providing consistent resistance is of more importance to me. Which isn’t to say I don’t value feel at all. It’s just that I personally don’t rank it high on my list of important items in a trainer. Rather, I prefer accuracy, durability, interoperability, and anything else ending with the letter ‘y’. Touch-feely does not count.

But, others who have ridden KICKR that do rate feel higher, do like the feel more than most trainers…for what it’s worth.

Noise Levels:

Noise levels across trainers are a funny duck. There are many aspects that impact noise, from cassettes to trainer tires to room flooring (i.e. wood vs carpet), to trainer mats and so on. The most important non-environmental factor across trainers is actually speed. Not wattage. I can keep the wattage at a set amount, and simply vary my speed (via gearing or cadence) to change the volume

I previously had done a sound test back in early January, comparing the KICKR to both the LeMond Revolution as well as the Kinetic Road Machine. In that test I used a few different benchmarks, though keeping the gearing and speed levels the same – resistance was the one variable. I generally went from low speed to high speed and just let it be.

This time, I decided to approach it slightly differently. Instead of focusing as much on a high-end speed, I’d just focus on a very common threshold – 200 watts at 20MPH. I kept my gearing exactly the same across all three units (well, you’ll see I had to gear down one ring on the Kinetic because I was too fast).

I then increased the speed to 30MPH, and then to 50MPH on both the KICKR and the CompuTrainer. The sole purpose of this was merely to make it as loud as possible.

I didn’t include the LeMond Revolution Pro this time, because honestly it’s like bringing a bull into a china shop. I’ve well established it’s incredibly loud at every level, well beyond these other trainers. Not even in the same city, let alone ballpark. And just repeating how much louder it is than the other ones seems silly. You can watch my previous video here on it.

Calibration Options:

The KICKR supports a calibration spin down method, which enables you to account for any resistance in the system, and/or environmental or manufacturing variations. In order to initiate the spin down, from within the Wahoo Fitness app you’ll simply select the little wheel icon from the upper right corner. You can trigger this at any time during a workout (before starting, during, paused), though I’d recommend you pause the workout so you don’t have a random data blob in the middle that doesn’t match the rest of your workout.

When you do so, you’ll see the button for ‘Calibrate KICKR’ – which will give you instructions to perform the spin down. In short, you’ll be going up to 23MPH, and then coasting until you see a notification (10MPH).

You can see the system will wait until you’ve reached the correct speed:

Then, as you coast down from 23MPH to 10MPH, it’ll

Finally, spin-down complete!

No specific calibration value is outputted during calibration – just a good to go!

3rd party apps also have access to the calibration API’s. And the API’s for 3rd party apps also provide more detailed feedback on the above calibration method (result feedback). And in fact, they have two options. The first is the roll-down like above. Different apps have implemented that different ways. You’ll see for example in Trainer Road that the upper left corner will say ‘Calib Ready’ when it’s prepared for a calibration:

The second method that apps have available to them is a zero-offset. This test is done with the unit at a stand-still (no pedaling). Today, to my knowledge no 3rd party apps have yet taken advantage of this functionality – though it is there. You can see this available in a non-public toolset that Wahoo has for testing, which will give identical results for 3rd party apps.

I’d expect to see this added in an app like Golden Cheetah, which caters to users that may have more desire to tinker. Wahoo believes that the current roll-down method is very accurate, and is their preferred method. In my testing, I’d agree with that assessment. It’s easy and straight-forward.

Firmware Updates:

The Wahoo KICKR can receive over the air firmware updates via Bluetooth Smart. When a new firmware update is available, the Wahoo App will notify you of the update, and then redirect you over to the Wahoo Utility app, which performs the actual update:

The updater will first download the software package from the internet, and then apply the update.

I find the process usually takes a few minutes to complete. So I often just leave it sitting on the flywheel to update. I figure that gives it the best connectivity to the communications pod a few inches away.

Once complete it’ll ask you to unplug the KICKR trainer and then reset any KICKR apps that you may have had open. Overall a very painless process that I’ve done numerous times over the last two months.

Power Accuracy and Control:

I’ve spent a LOT of time riding the KICKR over the past two months. Tons of time. And if there’s nothing else that’s impressive, it’s aspects of the accuracy component. Now, I say ‘aspects’ because there are actually two pieces I look at when I’m talking about resistance controlling trainers. The first is how quickly the unit controls the resistance, and how it responds to your output. Remember, the trainer is designed to hold a given wattage in most circumstances – either directly or indirectly. Meaning it’s holding a specific value such as watts, or it’s holding a grade. You want to ensure that if its holding a wattage, that it can do that even when I dramatically change my output.

Take for example the Tacx Genius. This trainer had a very slow response to my sudden changes in wattage. Sometimes 10-15 seconds if I made a sudden jump, before it would pull the resistance unit back in to what it was set out. The CompuTrainer on the other hand, very quick, it doesn’t let you get out of line.

I found the KICKR more in line with the CompuTrainer. It kept the wattage right on-par, despite any fluctuations on my part. And within 1-2 seconds it would adapt to any major shifts. Significant wattage changes saw roughly the same ramp. I saw slightly more ramp when I was talking major shifts. For example, during a TrainerRoad workout that went from 155w to 465w, it took about 4-5 seconds for it to ramp up. This isn’t really a bad thing per se, as it means you don’t have the brick-wall syndrome (where it feels like you’ve just smacked a brick-wall), and thus it allows your legs to adapt to the change.

The second piece is accuracy against other power meters. Anytime I test against other power meters, there’s an aspect of ‘Who’s right?’. And honestly, I’m not here to answer that. And thankfully, in this case, I don’t really think there’s a reason to try and answer that. To put it into perspective, see below:

The two Edge 800’s are paired to the Quarq and Stages PM, while the iPhone is controlling the KICKR. The big iPhone number (200w) is wattage set-point. The small iPhone number (199w) is my current instant-power. On the Edge 800’s you see my 10-second power as the upper number (200w and 206w respectively), and the number directly below that is the 30s average (199w and 205w respectively). Cadence is also displayed, based on those units internal power-meter provided cadence sensors.

With the latest KICKR firmware late last week, they’ve resolved any outstanding beta bugs I was seeing, and things are very stable now – from low speed to high speed, as well as coasting. Previous beta drops (again now solved) had some issues with coasting where it didn’t account for it, thus skewing some of my numbers from those workouts for any time I was coasting (which was pretty rarely).

Here’s a workout I completed on the latest firmware, and you can see just how solid it tracked against both the Quarq:

From a power meter variability standpoint, here’s how things tracked. First, in raw watts. What you see is that post-calibration (at about the 600 marker), things are right on top of each other. Generally within 10w of variability, but often within just a couple watts.

Now where you see differences is those five spikes – or quick accelerations I did. The reason for the differences isn’t actually dramatic differences in power readings. Instead, it’s just inherent lag between data sets albeit synchronized).

That said, here’s what things look like from a percentage standpoint (I cut it off at 60-80% so you’d get more action on the graph):

Again, you’ll see the big jumps during the accelerations just due to tracking. If you look at the point after the calibration, things get remarkably stable. This was mostly a 10-minute relatively steady-state effort. Post-accelerations you see a bit more variability. This is partially the result of just the way that the Quarq reports power back having more variability in it – like most all power meters out there today. For fun, I picked a completely random 15-20 second snip (I really just scrolled a bunch and just stopped and copied a chunk of data. What you see there is that the KICKR has much less variability between data points, and thus you’ll see that more stable line.

You’ll note that all three are within 2.3% of each other. In the above, I went ahead and included the Stages data that I was capturing as well. Just for perspective on data frequency. I have specifically not included it in the other graphs as I’m still working with them on the a follow-up review, and I don’t want this to become another Stages PM review. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’ll definitely post an update to that in the future. But I don’t have a timeframe for doing so.

On the KICKR front, obviously, because of a lack of rear-wheel, I cannot compare it with a PowerTap output – which would otherwise be on the rear wheel.

Using RFLKT for control of KICKR:

At present, one cannot control the KICKR trainer using RFLKT. It is coming, but it’s just not there yet today. RFLKT today allows you to view information provided by your iPhone over a Bluetooth channel. Think of it as a remote display. 3rd party applications are being developed by various companies to take advantage of this. Effectively replacing a Garmin on your handlebars. Instead, app makes such as Strava would have connectivity to the RFLKT, and be able to display whatever they pleased on it.

You can and will however get data fields from KICKR presented to RFLKT. For example, I can pipe the wattage to the unit, and stop and start the training effort from the RFLKT.

Down the road, I’d like to see everything from being able to control wattage/resistance (basic) to starting a calibration routine. All this is relatively straightforward from a programming standpoint – it’s just a matter of where it stands on Wahoo’s internal development totem pole. And note that this would be controlled by either the Wahoo App, or another application (Wahoo or 3rd party). Meaning that the RFLKT wouldn’t directly control the Wahoo KICKR, but instead would pair to an phone or computer app, which in turn controls both. All of this control is done over Bluetooth Smart, as the current crop of RFLKT units do not have ANT+ within them.

Bluetooth Smart and ANT+ Support and Functionality:

The KICKR is unique in that it’s the only trainer on the market today that is fully Bluetooth and ANT+ enabled. The unit contains the necessary hardware for communication to existing ANT+ devices (such as the Garmin Edge 500 or Forerunners), as well as Bluetooth Smart support for phone and tablet based devices.

Bluetooth Smart integration requires the use of a Bluetooth 4.0 device. Which means you have have an iPhone 4s or newer, or a 3rd generation iPad or newer. Additionally, at this stage the only Bluetooth Smart device support for these device profiles is on the Apple platform.

On the Bluetooth Smart side, it uses the standardized Bluetooth Smart Power Meter device profile to broadcast the same power and speed information. This means that it’s compatible with devices that support that device profile. At present, that’s only software apps, and no physical head units. The unit utilizes the same standard as the Kinetic inRide and Stages Power Meter, which are both based upon the agreed and ratified spec for Bluetooth Smart PM’s.

Finally, at this time (as of March 5th), Bluetooth Smart is currently the only way to control the resistance in the KICKR trainer. Meaning, you have to have a compatible Apple device (either phone/tablet/Mac) to control the unit. The next step is ANT+ control, which the Wahoo team is working away on. They expect it’ll be released to developers in the coming weeks (which I’ll talk about in a second).

At this point, support for Bluetooth Smart control on Windows simply isn’t on their radar. Instead, they’d leverage ANT+ support for that. On the Android side, Bluetooth Smart control will be coming, but it’s really in the hands of the handset manufactures right now, more than Wahoo (Wahoo is waiting on them). Samsung will be first, and HTC following that. The good news there is that the ANT+ support with a couple dollar OTG cable should largely get Android folks up and running quickly once the Wahoo ANT+ support is finalized.

Finally of note, is that CycleOps has committed to adding in the ANT+ Resistance Control spec to their trainers as well, as soon as it’s finalized by Wahoo Fitness. This is actually pretty significant, as in doing so it completely opens up their platform to the same level of 3rd party development that Wahoo will have (minus the Bluetooth Smart side for the moment). Further, I think it’ll hopefully pressure other companies to do the same (looking at you Tacx).

Applications and 3rd Party Development:

Perhaps the biggest single reason the KICKR is so different than other trainers is the open nature of it. Thus, I really wanted to dive into what some of the 3rd party apps are doing. Now, this section is a bit unique in that I’m not so much doing a deep-dive review on these apps. More just talking about what they do. Some of these apps are still in development, and some are complete (I’ll note which ones). And realistically, there’s a TON more apps in the pipeline by a lot of folks I’ve talked with. As these companies release apps I’ll add them in here. Sort of a gallery. Well, at least until there’s too many. Many of these companies are waiting for the ANT+ Resistance Control. In talking with Wahoo over the weekend, they hope to have this in developers hands in the next 1-2 weeks. After getting the units into your hands today, that’s their next big-ticket item to knock out.

Once that happens, it really opens the door to all of the PC apps, and apps that don’t have Bluetooth Smart in it. That’s because these apps can use the ANT+ USB adapter, as well as the existing Wahoo Fitness iPhone ANT+ adapter (for pre-iPhone 4s units).

But ultimately, I knew folks really wanted to hear what I had to say – so I wanted to go ahead get the review out the door, even if all the apps weren’t quite finished. As such, a huge thanks to all the developers below who I pestered endlessly to get me pre-release builds to be able to put this all together in time.

3rd Party Apps: Trainer Road:

TrainerRoad is one of the apps that is fully KICKR ready today (if you have a Mac, pending ANT+ support for Windows). In fact, it’s actually supported KICKR since all the way back in August at Eurobike. TrainerRoad is a subscription based app that’s available on Windows and PC’s (not on iPads/iPhones) that has a massive workout library and guides you through completing workouts with your data being recorded on the computer and then uploaded upon completion to a central web platform.

The first step that you’ll complete is to pair the computer to the KICKR. To do so you’ll simply click the ‘Pair’ button next to Wahoo KICKR, and it’ll find the trainer via Bluetooth Smart. This only takes a few seconds. Additionally, I’ve also paired in a Bluetooth Smart Heart Rate Strap as well as Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence sensor. TrainerRoad also lets you use existing ANT+ sensors you may have too. So if you have an ANT+ HR strap or sensor, you can mix and match with KICKR to get all your data.

TrainerRoad has a massive online workout database, and you can also create your own workouts for it as well. In my case, I just cracked open a quick workout and went to town.

TrainerRoad has the concept of target power – which is the power you should be attaining. In the case of KICKR, the software will automatically control the trainer to be that particular resistance/wattage. So in this case ,you can see that it’s currently set for 403w, and I’m achieving 404w. On the right side, you’ll see my heart rate (156bpm), and my cadence (83RPM). In the middle you’ve got my interval time, and time left in the interval.

Looking at the graphs, it’ll track that information as I go along throughout the workout.

Additionally, as you can see below, as I complete intervals it’ll automatically spit out summary information for each set. In this case my precision is at a bit of a disadvantage due to the slight ramp rate from 124w to 465w (in this case), thus it’s a bit lower than you’d probably have for a longer interval.

TrainerRoad has a pretty huge and loyal following, and is currently in their second season in the market.

About the only thing I’d love to see them integrate into this is support for RFLKT – primarily to control the workout resistance as required (and or pause/stop). Today you need access to a keyboard (or, to place your sweaty hands on your laptop/keyboard). This would seem to be a perfect use case for RFLKT.

The again, most every app I talk about here is a perfect use-case for RFLKT.

Note that TrainerRoad also supports videos like Sufferfest, which are synchronized to both the resistance and the video itself. I demo’d one of these in TrainerRoad as part of my Kinetic inRide Review, so you can check it out there.

3rd Party Apps: Kinomap:

Next up is Kinomap. Kinomap is different from the likes of TrainerRoad in that Kinomap’s focus is primarily on recreation of outdoor rides. They do this by providing a subscription service that includes unlimited use of a video library. That video library has GPS courses which are synchronized to it, which in turn control the KICKR trainer to feel like outdoors.

You’ll pair the Kinomap application to the KICKR, as well as any ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart sensors you have:

You can also specify resistance attributes as well as which format to show your speed/distance data in (such as MPH or KPH):

First up is picking out a course to ride.

There are courses on road, as well as off-road. Interestingly, because Kinomap can also be used for running and rowing, there are courses on water as well. I’d suggest you use the video filtering options to focus on cycling courses:

Once you’ve got the video selected you’ll ensure that your sensors are still paired:

At which point you’ll go ahead and start. Within the main Kinomap screen there are a few different views you can use. The video is pretty much always present, but the bottom half of the screen can be configured differently depending on whether you want to view a map, a dashboard of stats, or an elevation profile.

Once the video has started, you’ll be shown how far ahead or behind the video you are. As you can see in the above screenshot, you can select how the software reacts when you fall behind. It can stop and wait for you, or it can change the video rate.

Also of note is that the video can be seperately split out to an external display. You can see some of these options here.

To do so, you’ll need the little adapter if plugging into an HDMI source (like a TV). But this is ideal if you want to display things on a much bigger screen.

At the completion of your workout, you can upload your session details to a variety of sites, including Training Peaks.

If you’re most familiar with entertainment based suites like that of the CompuTrainer Real Course videos, or the Tacx videos, you’ll probably find yourself drawn to Kinomap. It’s a bit pricier than the other options, but the all-you-can-eat aspect of it is hugely appealing. The video quality is generally lower than the perfectly image-stabilized videos you’ll find by Tacx, but at the same price you’re not paying $30-$100US for each one.

Also note that you can indeed create your own videos with GPS data and upload them to the Kinomap service.

3rd Party Apps: iMobileIntervals

Next up is iMobileIntervals. This somewhat lesser known app joins the fray at a cheaper $5.99 – one-time purchase price. The app has long interfaced with Wahoo Fitness devices, and in fact was pretty much one of the very first apps to talk to the original Wahoo Fitness ANT+ adapter.

This app can be used to quickly and easy create and execute workouts with predefined interval times. Additionally, you can control the KICKR in a standard ERG mode as well (meaning, just control wattage on the fly). The first step is pairing to the KICKR trainer, which takes about one button press:

And just like that, you’re ready to begin.

When you first start out, you can load up previously saved workouts of your own, create a new workout, and pull one from a library of workouts.

The library can be sorted by category of workouts, as well as other attributes such as username. You can then publically save your workouts as well for others to use.

I went ahead and created my own workout. You can simply add warm-up and cool-down chunks, and then repeating intervals very quickly and easily.

As you can see from the timestamps, creating the below workout only took me about 1-2 minutes.

Once you’re done creating the workout, it’ll be time to complete the workout (it’ll save it for you as well). While executing the workout you can skip to different parts by simply using the music-style controls. This is useful (and unique) in the event you’re short on time and need to move into the next section. You can also specify a wattage offset in the event that you’re just not holding on anymore.

Last but not least, two items of note. First is that you can define and display TSS/NP/IF information within the app, and that you can pair to other ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart sensors. The app is interestingly enough the only app today to support the Wahoo RFLKT.

If you aren’t sure which apps you want to use with the KICKR today, the iMobileIntervals certainly is a good way to go – especially if you need an interim solution. Obviously, the graphics on it aren’t exactly the most visually stunning, but the functionality is there and works – which is what most folks are looking for. And for the price, it’s hard to beat.

3rd Party Apps: Golden Cheetah:

Next up is Golden Cheetah. Golden Cheetah is an opensource software suite primarily focused on cycling that has historically had its roots in the analytics side. A while back they added a training mode which enabled you to connect to and control some trainers (as well as get virtual power from other trainers with known power curves).

The latest beta builds of Golden Cheetah will shortly allow you to connect to and control the Wahoo KICKR. I got to play with some early previews of it, and will give you the quick rundown. At present, this will require a Mac, since ANT+ control isn’t there yet. But as soon as Wahoo releases ANT+ control, then the Golden Cheetah folks will add it in so that Windows users are also good to go.

First up is adding the Wahoo KICKR Trainer:

It’ll then go off and search for the trainer using the Bluetooth Smart within most recent Mac models. If you have an older Mac, you can simply pickup a $12 Bluetooth Smart USB adapter.

Once the device is found, you’ll go ahead and give it a name:

With the trainer added, we can start to control it.

Instead though, I’m going to create a workout. Golden Cheetah has two options here. The first is to pull workouts from the large online (and free) workout database ErgDB. The second is to simply create your own. In my case, I just created a quick demo one, that you can see below.

For this workout, I used predefined wattage steps – though I could have used % of FTP Wattage or gradient as well. Each chunk in the workout has a specific number of minutes assigned to it (which I supplied). As I’m building this, it’ll create a small graph of the workout as well.

These workouts can be saved locally, or published as well. If you save them locally, you can see how easy they are to edit:

Finally comes time to load up the workout, or to control the unit in a general resistance mode.

While controlling the unit your data will be displayed up on the top. In my case, my current KICKR power, my current KICKR speed, and distance information as well. Additionally, the app would normally display the assigned power level, and the steps within the workout would be overlaid onto the screen. I was running into a bit of a pre-beta bug, so it wasn’t showing up for me.

In addition to the raw data, I can also add in media files (such as movies) that can be display alongside my data – to make the trainer ride slightly more bearable. Once the workout has completed, it’s automatically saved into your workout history within Golden Cheetah. And from there you can easily export it out to numerous formats, or straight to services such as TrainingPeaks, Strava, RideWithGPS and more.

For many folks, the free Golden Cheetah may be the best bet if your looking for one-stop shopping around training and analysis all for the unbeatable price of…free.

3rd Party Apps: Strava Segments by Wahoo

Ok, this one isn’t exactly third party. It’s made by Wahoo. It’s just not released yet. And, there’s no specific timetable to release it. But, it’s cool enough that I wanted to give you a brief tour. I’ve previously shown off bits of it back at Eurobike and Interbike. But this time I had a bit more hands-on time with it.

The Segments app allows you to search out and load up any Strava Segment uploaded anywhere in the world. I simply enter in a city name and/or location, and then off I go.

By doing so, I’ll see the various segments available within that view. I can then zoom around the map (typical pinch/zoom) to look at a given segment. By doing so I’ll pull open the current Leaderboard for that segment, as well as a course profile. You’ll note it also has my best time listed (if I’ve raced that segment). Note that today even if you complete a segment on the KICKR, it’s not uploaded back into Strava. It’s purely separate on your own device.

I went ahead and I changed focus just down the road a few miles to my old neighborhood.

From there I found a suitable course that was short for the purposes of this demo:

The bonus was that it was downhill. The second bonus was that my next-door neighbor was on the leaderboard. And thus, I planned to beat him.

You can see prior to me riding the course, if I switch the leaderboard stats over to ‘KICKR Trainer’, it’s empty. Also note that ‘Best time’ is empty too.

I should probably note that this is an iPad app, and does require an iPad that supports Bluetooth Smart (3rd generation and above).

The course takes a few seconds to load up, and then it’s ready to go. Once you start pedaling you’ll get 10 seconds. This is fair since in this particular example most riders would be coming from down a hill, versus a dead stop.

Here you can see me about 12 seconds into this effort. My wattage and current stat information is displayed against the current leader, in real-time. Additionally, it has a small dot showing where he and I are.

Obviously, had I not run a half-marathon 90 minutes prior, I probably would have had slightly more success in this venture.

But my goal was ultimately accomplished, and I beat my neighbor by 5 seconds. Good enough for me!

You’ll note that the KICKR Trainer category for this particular segment now has my best time on it. On a day I’m more fresh I’ll come back and take care of this…

For an unreleased app that was thrown together at the last minute before Eurobike, the functionality is incredibly cool and pretty engrossing. Hopefully Wahoo and Strava can work through any of the remaining items and get it published up to the App Store. Awesome stuff.

My DIY iPad Stand:

In case you’re wondering where that iPad and iPhone stand came from I used throughout the review, it’s actually one I built. I posted about it a while back. The whole thing cost $30 and is quick and easy DIY.

It allows me to mount not only the iPad onto it, but also the iPhone and various cycling units as I need to.

(Note: There are a slew of mic stands out there, I selected this one primarily because it had a heavy round base that wasn’t shaped like a tripod – but was still small. I figured the tripod style ones would be easy to trip over.)

(Note: There are a gazillion iPhone bike mounts, the one I selected is kinda bulky, but it gets the job done. You can probably pick something more elegant…but it’ll likely cost ya. Similarly, you can use any bike mount that floats your boat for other phone types.)

Trainer Market Comparison:

You can utilize the below comparison table that’s dynamically updated over time (so as features change via firmware) to compare the different trainers that I’ve reviewed. Note the key part being ‘I’ve reviewed’. There are no doubt many other great trainers on the market, it’s just that if I haven’t reviewed it, I don’t feel right including it based on some marketing fluff.

Remember to click the ‘Expand Results’ button as it’ll show a gazillion more rows than the quick preview above.

Summary:

There’s no question in my mind that the Wahoo KICKR trainer has completely changed the trainer landscape. Partly because of the hardware, but more importantly because of the ability for 3rd party companies to develop software for it. As you’ve seen above, companies and organizations are already doing so – and at price points significantly lower than the high-priced multi-hundred dollar software suites that the market is currently locked into. And if we fast forward to next fall, I think we’ll be looking at an even cooler set of applications for the KICKR.

As a platform without 3rd party software, the KICKR is still reasonably strong. Yes, it does lack the massive software suites like that of the Tacx trainer. But it also lacks that software price tag. Further, it lacks the buginess of that platform. Despite the fact that I’ve been riding the KICKR on beta firmware until Saturday (when the final firmware drop hit), everything has just worked. All the time, every time. No moments of ‘oh, it won’t connect again’ or similar.

If I had to find disappointment or fault within KICKR, it would simply be that the ANT+ control piece isn’t there yet. But I can live with it getting there in the next month. In talking with the founder of Wahoo Fitness, all focus has now transited to getting that piece finished and handed out to developers so that 3rd parties can create cool apps (and, ironically, so that competitors like CycleOps can also implement it). Beyond that fault, there’s reasonably little that I can be upset about.

I think there may be something to be said for Wahoo potentially developing and/or expanding their own software app to not only more platforms (I already showed off the Android version back in January), but also to expanding the functionality. For example, including items inbox such as the workout creator – which is normally inbox. Though, the solutions to that range from free to $5.99. Thus again, hard to complain too much.

Finally, when I look at the multi-player options, there are companies working in that space for KICKR with upcoming ANT+ control, and I think you’ll see some of the companies above also bridge into that area. I know that if I were designing a Cycling Studio, I certainly wouldn’t be buying CompuTrainers at this point (unless I got a heck of a deal on them).

With that, here’s the pros and cons:

Pros:

– Open platform, others can develop against it
– Just works factor (never have to futz around with it)
– Supports both Bluetooth Smart and ANT+
– Noise levels are compatible to other trainers, lower in some cases
– Pricing is about $500 cheaper than CompuTrainer
– Pretty cool apps already coming out and available for it

Cons:

– Must remove rear wheel from bike
– Pretty darn heavy
– Some functionality does require 3rd party apps that is typically included (i.e. workout creator)
– Support for Windows Apps/ANT+ Control won’t come until late March 2013/April 2013

Note for readers with support items, many questions are answered here in the comments, however, Wahoo also has a KICKR technical FAQ page here too.

1,662 Comments

Is the unit compatible with a campy cassette? Maybe not a large market in the US but it certainly is everywhere else. What about Dura Ace 9000 (11 speed). Certainly will trickle down to lower tier groups soon and the 11 speed freehub is backwards compatible (but not the other way around) so it makes sense to take care of that right away...

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Chip at wahoo said that they have some "adapters" on the way, but not available yet. Not sure if that means a cassette with a different spacing or a freehub body. KICKR comes with a 10spd shimano cassette. Therefore you can do campy 9-10 by using a cassette with all loose campy spacers that fits the shimano spline. I have a Miche 9 spd cassette with campy spacers that works great on the KICKR.

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First thanks for all the setup information, it took me about 45 mins to get riding on the KICKR.
I know very little about bike components myself , our local bike shop thought that my Campagnolo 11 25 would fit KICKR 11 25 Shimano cassette. I'm riding with no issues, maybe some has a different experience.

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The spacing for Campy and Shimano is slightly different but if you are not experiencing issues with excessive chain noise or skipping then it sounds like you're OK. We do offer a Campagnolo Freehub for the KICKR which will allow you to install a Campagnolo cassette (link to wahoofitness.com).

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Pretty disappointed with the Segments app. The promise is there but most segments are pretty unrideable simply because the GPS data is inaccurate.

I gave ridden over 300 cols across Europe and none of them have gradients that jump around all the time - one second 0%, the next 8%. It's completely unrealistic and nothing like riding the real thing.

Wahoo could fix this by building in a smoothing algorithm that would eliminate these false variations.

Until they do that however, the app will fail to live up to the promise/hype.

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Sorry that you are disappointed, the quality of elevation is one of the main reason the app was delayed nearly 12 months. GPS and even online lookup databases have VERY poor elevation data.

Strava has corrected many of popular Segments using data from Altimeters (Garmin 800's) and these segments are very good. Popular climbs over mile are really good and Strava is continuing to scan and update the elevation data. Strava now has the best elevation database on the internet.

We also use 2 different types of filters on the elevation data, but unfortunately, like many before us have found these algorithms not always to be perfect and mostly work well in mountain environments.

We are continuing to work on improving the data and future version should give some greater control over the filter parameters so they can be manually tweaked for different use cases.

Thanks

Murray

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Thanks for the excellent review. It is amazingly detailed and very useful in the decision making process. I tried to use the code DCR10TXS at checkout in the discount coupon field but it does not work.

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Once again a fantastic review.
As a non Apple user I am especially interested in options of using the KICKR with Windows or Android.
It seems currently there is no such option, is that about right?
Do you plan on updating your review once such software becomes available?

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Greetings from your favorite KICKR fairy! Week after week I have had the pleasure of keeping you up-to-date on all the great news surrounding your forthcoming KICKR. Unfortunately sometimes even fairy magic can’t fix all the problems. During our final testing process we discovered that the spacer spec’d in the first run of KICKRs were the incorrect size; and on rare occasions can cause the freehub to bind. We have been working diligently to solve this issue and are having new spacers and freehubs manufactured and overnighted to us from our factory. That means come Monday morning yours truly, and the rest of the Wahoo team, will be dropping everything to head to our fulfillment center. We will be opening each and every KICKR box, replacing the necessary parts, and testing each unit. How’s that for some Wahooligan love?

Now for the good news! While open, your KICKR will also be getting a fresh firmware update so you’ve got the latest and greatest version when it arrives at your door. These two processes, unfortunately, will cause a slight delay in shipping. However, we’ve got the espresso machine primed and a killer playlist teed up.....we don’t plan on sleeping until the last KICKR is ready to ride!

We will be shipping KICKRs as they get updated and yours will ship based on your reservation spot. Some will be able to ship on March 4th as promised, but others will be delayed by a couple of days. When your KICKR is ready I’ll send you a link to a secure payment page so you can complete your order. Be sure to keep an eye on your email over the next few days. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.

Thanks and I’ll keep you updated!

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what are your thoughts on chain wear (i.e. the cassette and chain wear together)? Do you think I would have issues with the same chain effectively using two different cassettes and wearing unevenly across both of them? There's nothing worse than a jumpy chain on a hill -- I'd like to avoid that here in VT.

thanks!

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Chain stretch is a result of riding on a worn cogset. So if you keep your drivetrain clean and change cogsets before they wear too much, you can change between cogsets (and extend the life of your chain) without much trouble. Its worth noting that in the case of riding an ERG workout on the KICKR (meaning that the trainer sets the resistance dynamically to make you output X watts) it doesn't matter to the trainer what gear you ride in, so you can easily end up doing much your riding at whatever resistance set by the trainer without changing gears, and therefore in the same cog all the time. You might wear out one cog well before the others this way. This can be fixed by making sure you ride in different gears.

Tangentially, one of the cool aspects of ERG mode is that you can easily simulate different "speeds" at a given intensity just by changing gears. Want a fast paceline or motorpace simulation? Just make an interval workout 3mins at zone 3 (tempo/subLT), 20 secs at zone 4b (super-LT) or zone 5, times whatever, ride it in the 53/12 et voila, KICKR will let you ride that speed, at the cadence you want, at the watts specified for you in those zones.

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My understanding is opposite of Ransom. It's the chain stretching that generally causes both cog and chain ring wear. So replacing your chain regularly greatly extends the life of the cogs/chain rings. I believe the chain is ultimately the week link in the drive train and should be replaced regularly. I get about 1.5k miles on a road bike and under 1k on my mountain bikes. Clearly the torque you put on it impacts this greatly.

So to answer the question, if you have a chain that is in good shape (not stretched) using multiple different cog sets shouldn't be a problem.

Regardless, as Ransom noted, it is a good idea to vary the cog used especially when in ERG mode since the gearing doesn't really matter. The kickr is going to adjust the resistance to match your cadence.

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Thanks for your hard work Ray! I see 3:15AM on some of those screen grabs....
I'll just post a couple clarifications about my iMobileIntervals app:
* Ray reviewed a beta build; KICKR support is not on the Apple App Store yet but will be submitted in a matter of a day or so.
* The app is supported by a free website (http://imobileintervals.com) where you can build your own time-based interval workouts with assigned Coggan intensity levels. Coupled with your Functional Threshold Power, the app converts these into a specific watts value under ERG control.
* On the website you can make your workouts public or create a group to share your workouts and training plans only among teammates or clients.
* The workouts pulled from the website include synthesized speech prompts for your intervals, so you can hear e.g. "30 seconds of left leg at cadence 90-100" or "3 minutes in zone VO-MAX" as you reach the next interval. The app will duck the volume from the integrated music player to present this.
* Ray shows creating an interval workout in the app, which is very easy, though he doesn't assign an intensity level to the interval, which is what you need to do to have the app set the ERG watts for the interval.
* You can easily switch in or out of ERG control (vs. standard resistance levels) during a workout.

KICKR is awesome and iMi makes it really easy to do ERG workouts without any desktop computer!

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Since version 3.0 iMobileIntervals supports creating workouts with specific watts values per interval,(like the classic Computrainer ERG file format) or percent of FTP (Computrainer MRC format). Users can create workouts that use ERG mode on iMobileIntervals.com or Garmin Connect. The website also has a convenient form for importing ERG or MRC files as iMobileIntervals workouts. Both iMobileIntervals and Garmin Connect have training calendars that you can use to schedule your daily workout right into the app.

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The time has come. The Wahoo team has been working tirelessly to replace the spacer and freehub, and update the firmware, and your KICKR is now ready to ship! All we need from you is to click on the link below and enter your credit card information and you will become a proud owner of one of the world's first KICKRs. Exciting, I know!

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First off - great review Ray. It will be interesting to see how things develope in the next few months with the 3rd party stuff. im still looking for a google maps based ride creater that will also accept elevation/course profiles. Anyone want to make an app with me ? ;-)

Prob a dumb question but ...Any idea if those of us that bought through clever will also be getting the spacer/firmware update ?

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Thanks for the review. Was fairly confident that it was the way to go with your fairly in-depth discussion of your feelings in beta testing. After this I: a) found out about the Kickr from your site before ordering a Computrainer and b) followed your advice and am soon to be a very happy owner.

Keep up the great work and looking forward to reading future reviews.

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Hey Ray,
Great review. My question is on the firmware updates. Is there any other way to update the Kickr if no iPhone/iPad is present? I personally don't own either and wonder if I can ever update it unless Wahoo makes a Mac version of their software or supports updates through Ant+ down the road.

Also, is calibration really important? I mean is the Kickr going to be way off at one point?

Thanks!

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We should have update via Bluetooth on the mac available soon, we really just need to write a little bit of the UI. We are also looking into support via ANT+.

The KICKR comes factory calibrated and should be nearly perfect out of the box, its a good idea to calibrate it after you transport it or after the first first weeks use. It is NOT something you need to do before each ride and it only take 20-30 seconds.

Thanks

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Is it now possible to update via Bluetooth on the mac ? I want to use my KICK with my trainer road but I guess I need to update the firmware first... cuz right now it's not working well. It's really annoying, you tell people that it's fine using a KICKR with a mac using trainer road but nobody told me I needed an iphone or ipad to update it...

Thanks

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Thanks - I do know that Trainer Road works well with the SRM, pulling the cadence data from the crank and avoiding the need for attaching a speed/cadence sensor. Looking forward to using this configuration with my KICKR, which just shipped today!

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I have no idea how you manage to do all these great, detailed reviews, but I love that you do. Thanks.
It was nice that you included some upcoming apps and gave a (tentative) timeline for the ANT+ control.
Any inkling if Garmin might add control to the firmware of there watchs/cycling computers? I have a 910 and would love to be able to just use erg mode from the bars.
I'll order one of these as soon as the ANT+ control is worked out

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Due to the 1:1 relationship restrictions on Bluetooth Smart, we'll see multi-linking as part of the ANT+ spec. I've talked with Chip about this, and the ANT+ Resistance Control spec will actually allow two devices to control the trainer. For example, the 'student' in a trainer class, as well as the overall instructor.

I know that the PerfPro guys are looking to be the first in line for multi-user/same location KICKR control.

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I don't think rides you do on your KICKR will post to Strava leaderboards. You have to actually ride the real life segment in the real world. What the Strava app allows you to do is "virtually race" a Strava segment. I believe that all of your KICKR rides can go to Strava the same way they can now - as stationary trainer rides.

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I have a question regarding KICKR compatibility with older bikes. I'd like to leave KICKR setup all the time using an old steel lugged frame road bike which otherwise hasn't seen much use in years. It's old enough that the rear spacing is 126mm. Do you know if KICKR can handle this more narrow rear dimension? I'd guess it's possible to stretch the rear and force fit it (or have someone cold set it permanently). Is it designed with some optional spacers so you can handle anything in the 126mm to 135mm range?

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Since the unit is Electronically controlled, is it possible to do high power/ low rpm reps on the KICKR? With the LeMond, it floats at 75-95 RPM once the gear is rolling. I would like a unit that can stabilize below 60 or 40 RPM to mimic hill climbs and maximize big gear efforts.

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Certainly. That's the beauty of this trainer. KICKR in ERG mode demands a certain watts be produced, so if you set it to 300 watts, it will raise or lower the resistance to make you produce 300 watts. It doesn't care what cadence you use, so pedal at the cadence you want. You might like to try an application like iMobileIntervals that will run interval workouts in ERG mode. Here's an example of one such workout tailored to over-gear efforts in the lactate threshold zone: link to imobileintervals.com

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Its possible on Windows 8, but at this stage we haven't even started any API for developers to use.

However, we are working on ANT+ control and this will allow it to work on Windows/Mac with a ANT+ dongle. PrefPro and Golden Cheetah are both working on this solution and should be available sooner rather than later.

Thanks

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Ray Your trainer reviews really helped me sort out what trainer would work best for me and what apps I could expect. Thanks for the great review of apps and KICKR! My KICKR ships today! Can't wait to pair it with my iPhone 5, HR, SC and RFLKT and get to work! You do the testing most of us would like to do, if we had the time and access to all the various gear you review.

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Your can get 10% of using the discount code. Will have to pay the VAT on top when it come to the UK anyway. All i know is ive been told second batch, i'm hoping it will be dispatched in the next few weeks. Just got to wait.

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Absolutely incrdible review and website!!!
One of the nice features of the computrainer is its ability to have a multi-user power session all on one screen. I am new to the bike technology game and am looking to replace my fluid trainers at home. I love doing group power trainer sessions in the multi user format. Does the kickr (or any of the "new" generation trainers) allow this to occur? Thanks in advance.

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Sounds like a couple company's are working on solutions. The beauty of an open platform is that if there is a demand, there will be a product. There are numerous ways this could likely be implemented, from each trainer still having it's own device (like phone) which then communicate with a central computer or all directly connecting to a single computer. So it's only a matter of time.

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Yup, just to expand a bit here. I talked to the Wahoo guys about this, and they see this as part of the ANT+ control piece coming online in the next few weeks. Once that's done, I know folks such as the PerfPro guys are waiting with digital ink in hand to make this happen near-instantly on the KICKR.

So I think by the end of April you'll see one or more pieces of software that can fill this void.

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Will there be an issue with using the Wahoo with a bike that is normally a 9 speed SRAM cassette along with a 50/39/30 crank? Mainly concerned the chain will jump or not align properly for shifting purposes.

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Kind of funny. Wahoo Fitness has all sorts of info on the device compatibility but nothing on drive train compatibility. I would expect it to work just fine but you'd probably need to get a 9 speed cog set and probably use a small spacer to have it properly line up with your current derailleur if you don't want to make adjustments each time you put it on and take it off.

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Well, I received the unit today and it is what I feared - skipping and jumping. There is no detailed manual, no useful info on the support site and support has yet to respond (since there is no phone number listed anywhere). I have one bike that has a 10 cog and one that has a 9. I would prefer to be using the 9 so need to figure out some way for it to work. Pretty annoyed with the lack of docs or ability to view anything in detail that would allow me to have more than a 45 lb mat weight.

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I have also noticed that the info on the web site is severely lacking. But it also sounds like you had some unreasonable expectations. You are going to have exactly the same issues as if you tried to take someone else's wheel and put it on your bike. 9 speed and 10 speed cog sets have different spacing, which leads to skipping. You need to install a 9 speed cog on the kickr for your 9 speed bike, which should be pretty trivial. Even if the cog set is compatible with your derailleur, you may still need to make minor adjustments to get it to align perfectly, in order to have it shift smoothly. This also is pretty easy once you learn how, and a good thing to understand in any case, because cables stretch which impacts this even on your regular wheel. Unfortunately most cyclists don't understand these simple maintenance issues.

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@ekutter - thank you for your comments. I will try to swap out the cassette. Admittedly you are correct, I have not done a lot of that, even though this does seem trivial. Without having experience, I fear breaking or wreaking it - which is why I wanted to see a maintenance manual and so on just to confirm there is nothing specific with the Wahoo that needs to be done (other than what would take place on a wheel).

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I could give you more info in a week once I get mine, but it should be straight forward. Probably need a couple of tools to help remove the current one if it is like a standard wheel (google "swap cog set"). Maybe Ray could add a note to his review as I suspect a number of people will run into this. Shame on wahoo fitness for not including this. There are actually numerous advantages to this direct drive system over a traditional friction based trainer but you have stumbled onto one of the draw backs especially if you have multiple bikes.

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I personally use a 9spd cassette on my KICKR, It works just like any other wheel would. For a while I didn't even bother replacing the Cassette since i nearly always use ERG mode (no gear shifting required). It wasn't until I wanted to use the simulation modes and shift gears that I swapped the cassette.

I hope that helps.

Murray

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Can't tell from the picture, but if the Kickr 10 speed cassette is all loose cogs, you can replace the spacers with 9 speed ones (possibly from an old worn out cassette- everyone keeps those, right?) and leave a gear off and you'll be fine.

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I've just set up my Kickr last night and have only had time (and physical ability -- getting over hamstring pull) to do some pedaling. Very smooth without that rubbery feel of tire on trainer; not loud in my torture chamber at all. Unfortunately, I tried to find that erg power control setting in the biking prefs page in Wahoo fitness app on my ipod touch 5th gen -- does not exist from what I can tell, so leads me to believe that power control via BT is not possible on this ipod. It pairs and can read the Kickr power sensor no problem. Can someone please corroborate this as well? Thanks in advance.

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Thanks for the reply. I am able to pair the Kickr power sensor fine on the ipod touch (5th gen). In the workout settings (Biking Prefs), when I scroll all the way down the last entries I have are "Simple Power" and "Bike Power" but no KICKR option (like Ray's pic above). I took screenshots, if you want me to send them to you just leave me your email. btw, I don't necessarily want these comments to be Wahoo's support site but also thought people might be interested in a cheap way to get erg control w/ ipod (instead of ipad/MacBook).

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Ok, ride #2 and I can't seem to figure out what's going on. The power output seems ok, I think. But the speed/distance is just off. I'm coming from riding a LeMond Revolution and I am very used to that power curve. It came really close to my outside ride metrics in terms of power and speed.

Tonight, I did a spin down test and then (during my warm up) tried SIM mode. I selected TT bike and started my warm up. It seemed as though there was very little resistance and before I knew it, I was spinning out my 50/11 at 130W. Que?! So then I switched to Level 0. It seemed like the power curve was pretty steep while geared at 50/21, but the speed indicated for the power that I was putting out was low. 22mph at 316W. Which would normally be around 24.5mph.

What am I doing wrong?

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The only thing wrong that I can see is that you're not using the LeMond Revolution any longer. That is usually the cause of poor indoor trainer performance.

"Perhaps because with the exception of the LeMond Revolution Pro, most trainers for me fall into two categories: Feels fine, or feels sucky. The Wahoo KICKR falls into the ‘feels fine’ category. Admittedly, at the upper end of that. The LeMond revolution is the only trainer that I say ‘Yes, I FEEL that!’."

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I have the same question Damon and no one seems to want to answer this. It's kind of hard to fathom. Yet in 'sim' mode, the Wahoo app clearly has the drag factors (C and Crr) entered in a fixed way. Why can't these be changed?

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Sorry for not responding originally, didn't see it until you posted today Sean.

We are planning on adding the capability to enter all the parameters around drag, but didn't want to just throw something in. We want to make it intuitive and allow people to understand the parameters and be able to get the KICKR setup to accurately match your outdoor resistance curve. With air density, Coefficient of rolling resistance, coefficient of wind resistance and frontal area all involved it needs a bit of explaining. The compromise for getting the App launched was a few different default bike types. We're working on some updates now with an eye to having a solid update ready for the fall trainer season.

thanks,

Chip

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The reason I ask is that I have a Quarq. I use the Quarq as my gold standard power meter because I can use it outside and use the information to race. Therefore, I want to pair my Garmin to my Quarq for power and my Garmin to the KCKR for speed. Then I can use my iPhone, iPad or Trainerroad to control the resistance on the KCKR.

As an FYI to others I am measuring about 10 watts different between my Quarq and KCKR; within the margin that I would expect. But enough different that I want to upload the information from my Quarq so I don't have any inconsistency between power meters.

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Since you are looking at Interest, DCRainmaker, I will express mine to pass along.

I want to do this exact same thing with my SRM. I want to use my iPod/iPhone or Trainer Road to control the KICKR, but want to get power/cadence from my SRM and speed from the KICKR. In the Lemond Revolution, I hooked a speed sensor to the Lemond since it has a built in magnet in the *wheel*. I dont think KICKR has that and the opening between the wheel and the bar are too narrow to put a magnet on it.

In addition, I am finding ~15 watts difference in power between the SRM and the KICKR. As you do with the quarq, I use my SRM as my gold standard and consistency across all my workouts. I want to grab speed from the KICKR via ANT+ though.

The power curve is completely different as well - the SRM is much noisier than the kickr - as if the kickr is smoothing it in some way. FWIW, this is the same thing I found with the PowerBeam pro.

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I can pair to TR and to the Wahoo app just fine, but can't for KinoMap. I have the latest version, and try to pair to the Wahoo, but it just searches indefinitely. This is the case on iPhone, iPad, etc. Have you had any such problems?

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If you're having problems where Kinomap won't connect, it's likely because one of the other apps is still connected (even in background). To remedy, go and kill (as in, using the little 'x') any other running apps that would connect to the KICKR (such as the Wahoo Fitness or Wahoo Utility Apps), on any iPhones or iPads. That should do it. Failing that, go ahead and turn on/off Bluetooth on your iPhone(s).

Because Bluetooth Smart is 1:1 only, once one app on one device makes that KICKR connection, it blocks others.

I got caught by this all the time in my testing, mostly due to multiple Bluetooth Smart Devices (iPad/iPhone/Mac) all making connections that I'd forget about.

Hope this helps!

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Picked my KICKR up from FedEx last night and thanks to your reviews Ray, had my bike on it in about 10 minutes. I thought it came with 9 spd so I put my 9 spd bike on and discovered all the skipping; then counted gears, took the 9 bike off and put my SRAM 10 bike on and it married up just fine to the Shimano 10 on the KICKR, no adjustment needed! Paired to Wahoo app ok (thanks again to your reviews) and then to Kinomap, where I finally discovered that I had to unpair it from the Wahoo and other apps before Kinomap could find the KICKR. With that done I took a Kinomap ride called “Prologue tour de Romandie Lausanne...” where I promptly got left in the dust. Then found a local ride on Kinomap and tried it. Worked great, I got off my bike sweat'n like a dog, feeling like I had been on the road for 45 min (at least as close as you can get in a living room with no wind and sun etc.).

All that said, I love my KICKR! I know a lot of you trainer hounds have used a variety of trainers, but I've tested a few and ridden some during bike fits, but hated all of them, so never bought one because I was afraid it would just gather dust in the corner. My KICKR issues have been with apps (from everybody) with poor or no instructions or poor functionality! Your reviews saved me tons of time setting up and pairing!!!!!!!! To me it feels 90% like a road ride minus weather. Sound is not too loud. Kind of stiff because you can't lean from side to side for turns or standing up; but I like the solid base for a trainer, feels secure. Also noticed that standing up felt strange, because the trainer doesn't move along with you as you accelerate. All in all the hardware is great, but all the apps need improved! Wish all the apps had a disconnect option for moving between apps!

Ray, Wahoo and all the app developers should hire you to do instruction videos on how to use their products! You've been a great help! THANKS!

When the snow flies, the rain pours and the wind rages, I’ll be on my KICKR!

Dave

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I think you might see some more clarity in this day in the next day or two. I talked with Clever and the backlog may not be as bad as the e-mail implies (they were being safe while awaiting more information from Wahoo).

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They got in their first shipments from Wahoo last Thursday, and then were shipped out from there. Last I checked, the plan was to continue getting weekly shipments in from them.

I know if you e-mail Clever, they'll be able to give you a pretty good estimate of exactly when. I'll double-check with them on the 5-7 days though. Perhaps they just got a bigger than expected shipment this past week.

Thanks for the support!

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The 5-7 days is indeed accurate. A large shipment (what I'd classify as a crap-ton) of KICKR's was in theory sent from Wahoo yesterday to them. They are pending a tracking number from Wahoo, but assuming it was sent out to Clever Training and arrives early next week, it'll easily cover the units remaining on backorder, plus availability for new units.

Thanks for your support all!

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To follow up - I swapped out the stock 10 cassette and put on a sram 9. It works perfectly. I have ridden it 3 times and it has been excellent. No issues with pairing and getting the app going. Very happy with it thus far.

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I haven't had a chance to really use my KICKR yet, but that will change in the coming days. While I fully expected to keep the KICKR indoors only and use a separate trainer (like a KK Road Machine) for use warming up before races, the KICKR is so compact, won't chew up my expensive sew-ups and is so compact that I'm really thinking that I want to use it on the road as well. The ability to pre-create a warm-up routine and run it in ERG mode seems like a no-brainer!

So that that said, I understand that there may be plans for a battery or car adapter option. What is the status on that? And in the meantime, are there any third-party solutions for outdoor use?

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Thanks for that info. I figured the KICKR must draw a lot of current, so it does not surprise me that a heavy duty car adapter is needed.

While I imagine car batteries vary in terms of capacity, does anyone have a sense for how long on average one could run their KICKR without draining the battery?

I am a little confused though by the second piece that you linked to. It would seem that either the first piece would plug directly into the KICKR's power brick or you would need something that plugs into the adapter and then provides a female "socket" for the KICKR's power cable prongs to plug into.

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Update/Edit: The below adapter was confirmed by a reader to NOT work with the KICKR. The plug is just a touch bit different.

I reached out to the Wahoo team on this. They ordered a $9 converter (link to amazon.com) that they believe MIGHT work off of Amazon to test, but I'd wait until I get confirmation from them that it actually works. If so, I'll buy one as well and add some portions about it on the review.

Again, just hang tight until they're 100% it does work (the model that they bought). I'd hate for folks to find out it doesn't.

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Just to add on Rays comments, We will confirm the quality of a few options and post some information on our website.

At 100% break, the KICKR uses about 5Amps, but most of the time you will be around the 2Amps area. (Car headlights use about 10Amps).

You car shouldn't have any issue running the KICKR for many hours without issues, we are also looking at a couple small 12V lead acid battery options (about $20) that should be able to drive the KICKR for about 4-5hrs between charge.

I will post a link here when its available.

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The two radioshack items are a) a DC car power accessory with a place on the end for a tip that fits the actual electronics you are trying to power and b) that tip, which I'm thinking is type L, outer diameter 5mm, inner diameter 2.1mm, but I'm not entirely sure.

The brick that comes with the trainer converts AC to 12V DC, and as Murray notes the car supplies plenty of amps at 12V so there is no need to convert anything; you just need the right plug on the end of the cord.

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Has anyone been successful in setting up the KICKR with an IPad 4? I spent the last 4 hours trying to replicate the setup here, but almost none of the screens or functions are showing. I can get the Wahoo Fitness App to recognize the unit and get speed, but that's it. Support for the IPad seems to be non-existent on-line.

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Ray - thanks for the coverage you've given this product, especially this review. I noted in the unboxing that you posted dimensions of the box - thanks for that.

Two questions:
1. Is there also a shipping weight you can provide? I understand the unit is 46 pounds, and can guess from there but am hoping there's an actual number available. Every page I've come across doesn't have these important pieces of info.
2. The dimensions you posted are height x width x depth right?

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I'm pretty similar to Neal. The shipping label on my exterior box shows 50 pounds. In my experience with shipping carriers and weights of this nature (I often ship servers), as long as you're +/- a few pounds they'll be fine (if you're creating the UPS label).

And correct, dimensions are HxWxD.

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Does iMobileIntervals allow creating a workout at a specific wattage as opposed to a Coogan's levels? I do not have a Mac so cannot use TrainerRoad. Does the Wahoo app allow you to do this in Erg mode?

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iMobileIntervals sets the ERG watts according to the Coggan zones only. If you only want to dial the trainer to an exact watts, you want to use the Wahoo app (which in comparison has no capability to run an interval workout and change the ERG watts in a timed manner).

If the ERG watts calculated by iMobileIntervals for a particular zone isn't working for you, you can easily set an offset (+-50 watts in 10 watt increments) during your workout to adjust your effort.

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Are you the same Ransom that posted the Sufferfest workouts on iMobileIntervals? I was actually looking to use the Kickr specifically for those workouts. How well does the Coogan zones work as opposed to using a Computrainer where you can create an erg file with specific wattages?

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Yes I am. I think the sufferfest workouts work well in a zone based workout compared to a specific %ftp. The key is that you can easily adjust an offset if is too hard or too easy.

I built an ERG file importer on the imobileintervals site and used that to import the sufferfest erg workouts. This has no doubt resulted in some slight changes to the workouts, as the importer analyzes the absolute watts compared to the use's ftp, or uses the %ftp in the file to assign a zone.

Meanwhile, when you run the imported workout on the KICKR, the app assigns the midpoint watts for the zone as the ERG watts. If the original %ftp is at the edge of the zone, the iMobileIntervals version will have shifted it to the middle.

iMobileIntervals uses the 4a/4b zones for LT and super-LT, which are quite narrow, so that shouldn't get too messed up. But you are right to point to L5 as the most problematic. There is a big difference between a 106% L5 and a 114% L5, which is what you get for L5 in my app.

On the plus side, you get more info than you would with just straight % ftp. The app will display the power range for L5 as the target watts: e.g. 297 - 336, but the ERG mode will make you make 113% = 316. And if you want to do 306 or 296 instead, you just scroll the erg offset picker wheel one or two clicks.

I just took a look through the sufferfest mrc files, and I note that about half the workouts have L5 all at 114%, but the other half bounce around between 108, 114 and 118%. So This might stand for a bit of a change in the way the app works. Specifically, I think I can add another database field for the %ftp for imported ERG files that can drive the trainer at a non-zone-centered value. This'll need an app update, but one is coming soon, with some other interesting changes.

The thing I'm about to work on now is fetching structured workouts from Garmin Connect directly to the app. They use a %ftp system there, so the above issue needs to be dealt with for that as well.

BTW if anyone has ERG or MRC files that they want to use with the KICKR, the ERG file importer is available to any logged-in iMobileIntervals user, on the website: link to imobileintervals.com

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One other note about zone-based erg workouts on the KICKR with iMobileIntervals: for zones 6 (sub maximal) and 7 (maximal) there is no max percent, so we can't take an average and use that. instead, iMobileIntervals shifts into fixed resistance mode in those zones, allowing you to change gears if you want more or less resistance at the effort. Also, in the settings there is a place to specify the resistance levels in these two zones. (likewise, zone 1 is set to resistance level 0, so that you can ride at whatever wattage you want).

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To update this thread with the latest info, the app now supports exact watts per interval (like Computrainer ERG) or % of FTP (Computrainer MRC) in addition to now having a form to import ERG and MRC files, and support for Garmin Connect workouts with ERG mode and the Garmin Connect calendar.

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Got my KICKR from the local bike shop yesterday. My first impressions were pretty frustrating. With my iPhone 5, the power numbers kept dropping out. Thought I must be getting interference. It would lose connection for a few seconds ever few seconds. Couldn't even keep a connection long enough to calibrate. I was using the WF app. I shut down my phone, restarted it, and everything worked like a charm. After proper calibration of the KICKR and my SRM, power numbers were within 1% at 200 and 250 watts but when the KICKR was set to 150watts, my SRM was showing 139. I think the KICKR also does some smoothing as it didn't jump around nearly as much as my SRM numbers.

This might be the fatal flaw with blue tooth smart, and Ray touched on it in the review. BT is 1-to-1. If you have two apps or devices trying to connect at the same time, you likely get unpredictable results. I ran into this with a BT HR strap. This is really a problem with BT and its implementation. At least on the phone, there doesn't seem to be any way to know what app has control, if any. There needs to be a way for the current app to take control.

Looking forward to seeing how the ANT+ installation deals with this. It doesn't make sense to have two apps trying to control it at the same time. one set in ERG mode at 150 watts, the other app set at 250 watts. Who wins? It does make a ton of sense to have multiple apps/devices reading the data at the same time. I want my Edge to be able to pick up the power and speed numbers but leave the control to my phone.

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KICKR arrived today and mechanically it is just a beast. In 2013 you just don't see many things with this type of build quality. Have been setting it up to work with my 24 year old Marinoni road bike. In theory putting a 4.5mm spacer (available at the LBS) behind the 7spd cassette is all that's required to make it work (along with some derailleur adjustment). It's actually very easy to spread the 126mm steel frame to fit the KICKR in the 130mm configuration. Fitting a new chain for the changed gearing (the Marinoni is fitted with a Dura-ace freewheel so couldn't use the same gears). Now just waiting for Golden Cheetah to release the build which supports KICKR as I don't have any recent iOS devices available.

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Speaking of Golden Cheatah (and other thord party apps), has Wahoo released the resistance API to the third party developers yet for those of us with Windows and ANT+ devices? I haven't even taken my KICKR out of the box and have kidded about it being a door stopper, but now I'm seriously thinking of selling it as I cannot have a $1k piece of kit just laying around. Third party app support was supposed to be a key selling point of the KICKR. I hope they live up to the hype and get their API act together ASAP.

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I just received my KICKR trainer and have tested it on a few rides. I have not experienced the same level of power accuracy that you have. I am comparing my KICKR power to my SRM. The differences are significant and the KICKR consistently measures much high power levels than the SRM. I calibrated them both at start and mid-ride. Mine has the latest and greatest firmware.

For example, on the last ride I did, the SRM recorded 197 NP and the KICK 209 NP ad the SRM recored 194 AP and KICKR 207 AP. If you look at every Lap, similar inconsistencies are shown. This part bums me out. I was hoping to use this to control my workouts in ERG mode (my own custom + trainer road) but with those huge differences, it will have me training in the wrong zones.

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How do you know your SRM is accurate? This is on of the biggest problems with power and accuracy. It is very hard to know which is correct. My SRM and Kickr were nearly identical at 200 and 250 watts but off by about 12 watts at 150. More important than accuracy is consistency. Wonder if there is a way to specify a power curve, or at least an offset that would allow you to have the kickr numbers adjusted to match the SRM. There would also be a slight difference, probably 2 to 5 watts, from the crank measurement to the rear cog measurement but that would make what you are seeing even worse. They all say they are accurate within a certain percent but I bet if you used 10 different devices from the same manufacturer you would see way more than that in variation, especially after they have been out in the field for a while.

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I agree that consistency is more important than accuracy and if it was a consistent difference, a simple offset would solve the problem. I have not done enough riding on it to know if it is consistent.

I will say that I have tested my PowerTap to my SRM on numerous occasions and the differences are negligible. I dont have a problem using either set and I dont worry about consistency between them.

It doesnt actually matter if the SRM is *right* or the KICKR is right since for me the SRM is my gold standard. I have 2-3 years of data using my SRM so I have consistent views across all workouts. Mixing KICKR watts in there would invalidate my data.

But, again, if consistent, a simple offset functionality would work just fine for me.

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If the kickr itself doesn't provide a fixed offset or curve option, it could very easily be implemented in software where the full interface is through the computer or phone. Sounds like a feature that could differentiate software packages. Wouldn't help much if you are using your Garmin to log the data, though.

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So lets say you are riding your bike with the SRM on the KICKR, can see the SRM watts showing 250 on the srm headunit, but the KICKR reporting 240 on the iPhone app. Providing you want to ride the values on the SRM, with an ERG workout using values normal to your FTP on the SRM, in ERG mode, the KICKR is going to be asking you to make 10 more watts than you want to. What you want to do is offset the ERG values being sent to the KICKR by -10.
In the current version of iMobileIntervals (link to imobileintervals.com) I have implemented an offset feature which allows you to offset the erg watts being sent to the KICKR (as provided by an interval workout). You can click the picker wheel to -10 and if the ERG file value is 240, it will send 230 to the KICKR and in the case above your SRM will show 240.
This feature is really for adjusting your day-to-day effort in an ERG workout, e.g. if you are fatigued. Its also uses 10 watt increments, though I can easily change this to, say, 5 watt steps.
However, it will be easy to implement a setting to permanently offset the erg value sent to the KICKR, and also add a switch to prefer powermeter watts for display and recorded data. Right now iMi shows and saves your KICKR watts to the tcx file, not your powermeter watts. I'll make these changes for the next version.

Does that sound like it would resolve most of the problems with the watts descrepancy? It doesn't solve the power curve difference (i.e. different difference at 150 watts vs 250 watts) but you would want to set the offset at the most critical spot (i.e. at lactate threshold).

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Actually, it is a +10 watts or so that I will need. In your example, the KICKR would be showing that I am doing 250 watts but my SRM will show that I am doing 235-240 watts.

I have done the spin down test on the KICKR several times - once at the start and a couple time after it warmed after 20 or 30 minutes.

I havent tried your app yet because I thought I read somewhere that it only can be based on Coggin Power ranges and that is not what I use -- I use specific watt ranges for almost all my interval workouts - that is just the way I do it. So, I target a specific set of watts for specific intervals - not % of FTP ranges.

I didnt want to pay for the app and then found out I couldnt do it.

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It's a tuff area, power meters are REALLY hard to compare, just ask Ray.

We believe the KICKR is very accurate and more importantly, very consistent. We have tested it with precision dynamometers over a range of temperatures.

We understand that people have large amounts of data with existing power meters that they class as their gold standard. I don't think its a argument on what one is more correct, we think they are both correct, in their own way.

Crank based power meters are always going to be very erratic, its why most people use a 4 second average. KICKR's power is very smooth, this is mostly natural smoothing from the design of the system.

Personally, I keep track of two FTP values, one for indoors and one outdoors. I've always found that they are different even when I was using the same PowerTap meter. Lots of environmental and metal differences that effect your peak performance.

Trainerroad can connect to both your SRM and KICKR, this allows your to still record and compare your SRM power. If you find the KICKR is always a few percent lower, you just need to bump up the % target so you are hitting the desired values with your SRM.

We have also discussed the ability to feed the external power values directly into the KICKR control system (via ANT+) that will allow it to adjust the resistance so the external power meter matches your target power. We will keep you posted on our direction.

Hope that answers some of you questions

Murray

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KICKR erg mode fits so well with the interval training via iPhone that iMi makes possible-- I'm trying to do whatever I can to make the app work will with athletes' existing ways of doing things. To that end I have an erg file importer on the site, that will convert the erg file into intervals, and in doing so it does two things:
1) it looks at your ftp in your website account and figures out what Coggan zone the watts or ftp percent in the erg file is
2) it saves the ftp percent for that interval.

Item #2 is something I just put in this week. The Appstore version of the app currently sends an ERG watts to the KICKR that is the median value for the Coggan zone. My current dev version of the app changes this for workouts that have been created from an ERG file import. If the workout contains an ERG ftp percentage value, it will use that instead.

I'm going to take this two steps further: I'm going to add the ability to edit this erg watts field directly on the website, so that one can make a specific ftp value for the interval, and I'm going to add a setting in the workout to change from ftp percentage to absolute watts, just like in ERG files.

This is probably a good time to ask around for beta testers. Anyone who has used ERG files in the past and wants to keep using them with the KICKR, email me at ransom@ransomweaver.com and I'll set you up with a beta version that has all these attributes.

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Does anyone elses Kickr make an intermittent scratching noise that increases as the speed increases? This is different than the whining sound that the trainer makes. It sounds almost as if something is rubbing inside the flywheel housing.

Anyone else hearing anything other than the whine. I do not hear it on DC Rainmaker's video.

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Hi Sonny
Yes my KICKR is doing that now. First I thought it was my bike making the scratching, popping noise but after 3 trips to the bike shop I figured it's coming from the trainer flywheel or belt wheel.
Did u get support on it yet? I'm awaiting to hear back from Wahoo Fitness now.

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Hi Ray
Do you need to use the Wahoo Fitness app to use the Kickr?
I did a calibration via a Ipad mini with the wahoo fitness utility spindown time 15.236 temp 15.5 offset 0
then i turned off the bluetooth from the Ipad.
I have tried to use as a stand alone unit with PerfPro and TrainerRoad (non bluetooth) and the resistance ramped in 10 seconds to the point I could not turn the crank.

Then I tried to use the Wahoo Fitness app to control the unit (computer off)
Level 0-9 (cant turn the crank in about 10 seconds; watts = 5 to 0
Resistance i can only turn the crank < 30% any higher i can not turn the crank) ; watts = 100 and less
Erg can only turn the cranks 100w or less ; any more than 100 watts and i cant turn the cranks (standing on peddels)
did not try sim

I am doing something wrong?
Thanks
Mike

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Think Trainer Road only works with Bluetooth 4.0 on Mac with Lion and more recent at this point. If you email customer support they will send you a link to a version which supports the KICKR. Plan on giving Trainer Road on Mac a try tomorrow. ANT+ support can't come soon enough as my access to the hardware/software which works with KICKR right now is very limited.

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Will this pair seamlessly with a Garmin Edge 500 and a Garmin speed/cadence sensor as well. Resistance cannot be controlled from the Edge as of now but the device will be able to read all the data from a workout, right?

Speed is an issue I understand since there is going to be no wheel magnet. And resistance of the Kickr will need to be controlled from an iphone or iPad?

Thanks

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The KICKR conforms to the standard ANT+ Power profile, much like any other wheel based power meter. You will get Speed and Power via ANT+ on your Garmin. If you want cadence, you will need to use a Cadence (or Speed and Cadence) sensor.

Like you said, you will need a device to control the resistance. At this time, thats a iOS device or Mac with BT4.0. The the next few weeks we will release ANT+ control, this will open the resistance control up to any Mac or Windows machine with a ANT+ dongle.

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Sorry you can't hold out, we released the firmware and updated API to developers at the end of last week, for some the update is only minor and shouldn't take long. Others will require a bit more development. We are all working around the clock to bring software updates to everyone as quick as we can.

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What should we expect as an ETA for the Strava segments app? Seems like a dev version is available that Ray is using. I'd really like to ride a few key segments for some upcoming races, and it's darn cold here in New England.

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We have had a few issues with the quality of elevation data that has made me feel uncomfortable in releasing the app. The problem is that a lot of the segments on Strava have elevation data from GPS devices that provide poor elevation data (eg iPhone).

For example, the local climb here in Brisbane is between 4-8% grade, it never drops bellow 3-4% the entire climb, but if you look at the segment elevation on Strava it has sections that are negative 10%.

We have been discussing this issue with Strava for nearly 12 months and they have already started correctly elevation data from crowd sourcing the elevation from quality barometer products (eg. Garmin Edge 800).

I wouldn't like to lock in a release date yet, but it is something we are excited to get completed and we have already decided to remove a couple features so we can get the first version out ASAP. Realistically, its going to be at least 6 weeks before we would have a app released in the app store, but I might put a call out sooner for some beta testers.

Murray

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Murray, I'd be more than happy to do some beta work for you on that. No issues putting up with some bugs on my side. I'm racing AmZof in about 8 weeks, and would love to get some quality time with the course sooner than later.

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Anybody out there who has no workout clock in kickr control mode in the Wahoo fitness app? I show no clock in level, resistance, erg or sim. Thus, I have to toggle back and forth during a workout to control power and see workout time.

Running most recent app version on iPhone 4S, have deleted and reinstalled app twice. No change. Also been back and forth with wahoo support to no avail. Anybody else have this / have ideas? Maybe ill just hit up i mobile intervals...Thanks....

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Thanks for the reply. It seems not everybody at wahoo is aware that the 4s doesn't have the workout time on the control page. Glad you cleared it up...was starting to think I was crazy. Would love if you can tweak it to fit, but I'll live either way. Love the kickr!!

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Tried ordering on Clever Training but that didn't go we'll. big screw up with the order and credit card meant I got charged 4 times for the transaction and am still trying to get that reversed.
Is there anywhere else you would recommend ordering from?
I'm from India and will be in the IS till end May so am looking for delivery before then.
Thanks
Arvind

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First up, thanks for the support. Sorry for the tangle. Typically if international folks order online and try to send to a different country than their credit card, Clever will manually validate the order first. This is done for fraud reasons, and is pretty much the standard within the US for any online orders.

Has it been more than a day? If so, I'll get in touch with the Clever folks and double-check.

Thanks!

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That hubdock looks very cool, though I'm curious about hub stiffness and even if it really is a better mousetrap, it would have to displace existing wheels. It would definitely make sense as an OEM wheel, particularly on less expensive bikes where the rider isn't as worried about performance, swapping wheels, etc.

With that said, I find it ridiculously easy to get my bike in and out of the KICKR - I find it faster even than my old Kurt Kinetic trainer, since you eliminate the step of tightening the drum against the tire. And the fact that tires don't get chewed up is a VERY nice bonus! I actually had a training wheel/tire that I used with the Kurt and that of course just added more time. This IMHO is simply not an area in need of improvement - it's already an A+ as-is.

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I have to agree this solution has limited appeal. It always amazes me how many of my friends are afraid to change their back wheel. A trainer like the KICKR is great because it forces them to actually do it, and get proficient at it. It really isn't that hard! This includes friends from back of the pack age grouper to podium Ironman finishers. I don't need another complexity on the bike that will certainly add weight and increase maintenance, while not really providing much benefit.

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Not to sidetrack this too much further, I suspect that would depend on whether or not you have dropouts that go down, or back. In the case of my TT bike, they are rear-exiting, which means the whole thing is a bit more finicky than a non-rear existing unit (ones that just drop straight down).

The unit weighs the same as most hubs.

Now, one thing I didn't notice previously was the price. Holy crap-balls, $379? I was thinking sub-$90. Definitely not worth $379 for me. Yikes.

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I'm done commenting about the HubDock. Mostly wanted to get it on Ray's radar in case he had an opportunity to explore one since he writes the best reviews on the net and I think it is a good idea if they can get the cost down.

Got my tracking number for my KICKR today so hopefully my Vendetta and KICKR will both arrive at about the same time so I can get back to some serious training.

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The HubDock looks pretty cool. They are way off on funding the project though - I mean, less than $6k raised out of a $47k raise with 6 weeks to go. Honestly, I love the idea though. It just needs to be bought by someone better capitalized to make this a new standard. Maybe Zipp? Mavic?

I'm not sure that it would make sense for Wahoo to support HubDock though - at least not yet. Seems to me they need to focus on building out the third party ecosystem of software before worrying about another hardware change to accommodate 100 early adopters of the HubDock.

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Have been trying KICKR using Golden Cheetah v3 development build. Still trying to figure things out, but feel at this time I need to test the KICKR itself to make sure the basic functionality is working by using the Wahoo app. I don't have an iOS device current enough to run their software, but can possibly borrow someones iPad which is about a year old and I'm guessing 1 version back (still with classic connector-sorry don't know Apple's model numbering scheme). Will the Wahoo software run on the iPad assuming it has BT Smart?

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Does anyone feel like Trainer Road does not adjust resistance enough? I did a work out last night and I needed to bring my cadence up to 120 to get to 270 watts. I'd greatly prefer to be at a 90 with more resistance.

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I'm having the opposite problem. Even if I dial the target power way down to 60 watts or less, resistance stays really high. I may be a weenie, but I'm not THAT much of a weenie. Along with this, the flywheel seems to be running on the hot side, which is probably consistent with the amount of resistance I'm experiencing. What are others' experiences with the flywheel and its housing heating up? What is normal?

I also noticed that there is no calibrate button on TR, as shown in their (TR) video on using the KICKR.

Other info: I'm using TR on a 2011 MacBook Pro recently updated to Mountain Lion, with an Iogear GBU521 Bluetooth adapter.

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No, I don't get the 'Calib Ready' button. I'm experiencing the same issue that Mike reported up in reply #145. I just tried a TR workout and resistance ramps up really fast, to the point where pedaling is impossible, even though power never exceeds 30 watts. Given the resistance, I don't think it's possible to get up to speed to the point were the Calib Ready button shows up.

Mike noted that he didn't have Bluetooth 4.0, so it may be that my BT 4.0 isn't working properly. I'll try troubleshooting from that angle.

Neal

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Doesn't sound like you have it setup correctly. Make sure you have the latest beta (1.4.0 right now) and that it is paired as a KICKR under the electronic trainers. Once in ERG mode, the watts should be the same regardless of your cadence. From your description it sounds like its in Level mode (default), this basically works like a regular trainer.

Neal,

Drop us a line at Wahoo Support, Megan or Brad will be able to trouble shoot for you.

Thanks

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Sorry to clog up this area with yet more when will this be available internationally but it'd be great to have some clarity on this.
Additionally its probably worth adding to the cons list, given Clever Training aren't shipping outside the US now (not sure if this is pressure from Wahoo or a cost decision). Wahoo aren't either (obviously). So I guess I am KICKRless, very disappointed as was wanting to keep my cycling form post clocks change next week here (Sydney). The way people drive here its not really safe to ride at night, and weekend riding isn't really enough.

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We are working really hard to get KICKR around the world. Shipping is the easy part, its getting service centres and warranty setup. As you can imagine, its not really possible to ship a KICKR back and forth from the USA if something goes wrong.

We are really pushing for availability in Europe and since I live in Brisbane, I am also driving really hard to get a Distributor setup in Australia. Ideally we would love to be setup in Oz before winter, but we still don't have any final deals in place.

We promise, as soon as we know we will let EVERYONE know on FB, Twitter and Via Ray's blog.

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Tried the KICKR today using the Wahoo app on a borrowed iPad. Most everything seemed to work just fine. Tried all the modes except simulation as the iPad was only on a very short term loan. ERG mode is awesome, but you really want to kick it in while you've got some cadence going.

Did find one bug in the spin-down test. If you've paired the Blue SC as a method of getting cadence, the app doesn't see the KICKR reported speed. Don't believe the app lets you setup the Blue SC as a cadence only sensor. Once it's unpaired, the spin down test works as expected.

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Were you able to get TrainerRoad to work on a Mac? I'm having absolutely no luck going that route and don't have access to an iOS device. Also, how does your KICKR behave if you try riding it plugged in, but with no app controlling it? On mine the resistance starts at nil, but ramps up quickly to the point where I have to stand on the pedals. If I stop, within 10 seconds I can repeat the process. It behaves the same in TrainerRoad. If someone can confirm this is normal with it plugged in but with no apps controlling it, I'll go in search of an iPad. I'm waiting on Wahoo Support to get back to me, but I'm not holding my breath.

Neal

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Haven't noticed that behavior on my unit. I'll check it out tomorrow. Haven't given Trainer Road a try yet. It's on my list for the weekend. Was initially focused on trying out the Golden Cheetah 3 dev build, but haven't gotten GC to work in a useful way yet. Given it's open source SW, gotta figure people don't get a chance to work on it like its a commercial enterprise so fully expect solid support to take a while. Once it's there, GC training module should provide a good way to use KICKR as you can easily build your own custom workouts with an included wizard (which appear to generate simple text files in an easy to decipher format so it would be easy to build one up with a text editor as well).

The inconclusive results from trying GC was the reason I felt a need to test the KICKR hardware using the Wahoo app. Had to eliminate the possibility of an issue with the KICKR itself. If you're questioning if your KICKR is OK, the Wahoo app will do that. I re-read the Wahoo utility part of this review just to better understand how to get the app setup as I have little experience with iOS.

With regard to the app itself... I have no plans to buy an iOS device just to run the Wahoo app as I expect we'll see rapid support on numerous platforms once ANT+ is baked into the various apps out there. The Wahoo app is really designed for the iPhone and looks underwhelming on the large iPad display presenting an iPhone sized window in the middle. Wahoo would benefit from making a tablet app when you see the plethora of displays you can swipe between or display alternatives you can change within a single screen. All that data needs more visual real estate. Thought the UI for changing training modes was a bit out of place. Seems to only be visible on one screen at the end of many alternative screens you can display. Overall the app seems OK and gets the job done.

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Larry - regarding the Wahoo Fitness app on an iPad. There is a button labeled, I belive, 2x that will expand the app display to fill the whole iPad screen. When you do this with some apps, the image doesn't scale well and the 2x version looks unsharp and jaggy, but this is not the case with the Wahoo app. It scales well and is much easier to use in 2x mode.

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Les,
Thanks for the info. I saw the 2x button and gave it a try, but was really after just seeing more info on the screen. Not being an iOS person, thought the apps would scale like Android apps when going to a bigger screen, but apparently Apple stuff doesn't work that way and probably don't have to due to the tighter control Apple has on their ecosystem. On Android you just don't get a blown-up version of the phone app, but one where you actually see more information being presented. Developers probably write that way because the Android ecosystem encompasses many devices with differing resolutions. This is both a pro, but also a con as it makes supporting devices on Android a bunch harder than iOS. App response to differing size screens vary, and the best actually do a complete redesign of the UI when installed on a tablet, but even lesser "phone" apps don't feel like a tiny app in the middle of the screen.

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Ray and others
Do you have any suggestion/recommendation for capturing video, GPS location data and accurate elevation for use in Strava and Kinomap; for KICKR use.
I'm using an iPhone 5 now, but looking for something more accurate for creating virtual rides and Strava segment.

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For the most part, Kinomap recommends the Contour GPS. I have a Contour GPS, and I'm not terribly impressed by it. I prefer to simply use a GoPro and then meld together the GPS file from a device like a Garmin/etc.... As long as you start and stop them at the same moment (starting at the same moment is more important than stopping), then you're golden.

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I must be super human. Finally got my Kickr, set it up via ant+ for read only mode and I'm outputting 2000+ watts without much trouble. This is obviously flawed as I doubt I can output that much at my peak. I'm hoping I can borrow a friends iPhone with bluetooth 4 and calibrate it (or Wahoo releases the ant+ control soon)and that's the fix. I will say, this thing is rock solid as you said and it feels very smooth to ride compared to my fluid trainer, but it's unfortunate that I can't get an accurate power reading. So much for finding out what my FTP is.

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Just to add, I borrowed an iPhone 5. Got it to connect to the Kickr, but no readouts whatsoever. Couldn't control the kickr at all so couldn't calibrate it. No speed or watts readout and erg or resistance mode didn't do anything. Waiting to hear from Wahoo support, but I have a feeling this one is going to have to go in for some repairs.

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My Kickr is also in need of repairs. I'm hoping it's an update to the firmware and not a problem with the power meter strain gauge.

My problem, in a nutshell, are that the power readings from Kickr are not power readings. They are a straight multiple of measured speed. As a result, the apps/app modes that rely on power readings for sending resistance levels back to the Kickr don't work. In the Wahoo Fitness app, that is primarily erg mode. In simulation mode with 0% slope, 0 wind resistance, power readings are probably one-third what they should be. The levels mode is essentially a variant of the simulation mode. Resistance mode works best in terms of being able to actually get an actual workout in. As I detail below, it still doesn't produce meaningful numbers.

The following is part of what I sent to Wahoo Support. I'm using the Wahoo Fitness app on an iPad mini. I get similar behavior using TrainerRoad.

I spent 34 minutes trying various modes. I also did a spindown calibration after 15 minutes. After the calibration, Kickr still produced inconsistent power readings. For example, in resistance mode, when I reduce the resistance from, say, 40% to 25%, pedaling gets easier, yet Kickr's power reading increases. Looking at the data in Garmin Connect, the thing that struck me is that power and speed are highly correlated -- their charts looked almost identical, with the exception of power drops when I ease up on pedaling. Keep in mind that for a given level of perceived effort on my part I can increase speed by merely reducing resistance and shifting into higher gears (even then perceived effort falls). The result is speed increases and the power reading from Kickr also increases.

So, I got back on the Kickr, and did one minute at the following resistance levels: 30%, 35%, 40%, 25%, 20%, 15%, 10%, and 5%. Then I exported the data to Garmin and pulled the speed (in MPH) and power readings at the 30 second mark for each minute.

The intercept wasn't significantly different from zero, so setting it equal to zero, I got Power = 3.1114 Speed; R-squared = 0.9999.

Again, I tried to keep perceived effort constant, though effort was actually less at the lower resistance levels, when power readings were higher.

So, my Kickr is NOT sending power. It is sending a multiple of speed, regardless of the actual resistance at those speeds. This hardly qualifies as a power meter. It also explains why the modes that are power based just don't work.

I'm hoping this is a firmware problem. The nearly perfect linear correlation between power and speed indicates that might be the case.

Also, when I run the Kickr plugged in, but with not controlling app, it does not behave like other resistance trainers. Resistance ramps up incredibly fast, and as speed drops, so does the power reading. I have my touring bike on the Kickr, and after 15 seconds, I'm in the granny gear, standing on the pedals. This seems to also indicate that the Kickr is feeding a multiple of the speed back as power.

Any ideas, Ray or others?

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Wahoo Fitness (Brad) was able to trouble-shoot this back to a bad computer board. My Kickr wasn't getting the signal from the power meter strain gauge. The Wahoo Utility app proved useful in diagnosing the problem. In any case, Wahoo is getting me set up with a fix.

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What I want is this: to be able to plan a workout - ie 8x 4 minute intervals @ 380w (not coggan levels, I want to choose the exact wattage), with 90 seconds rest between each @ 100w. I want the software to ramp resistance from 100 to 380 over 5 seconds so it's not impossible to turn the cranks at the start of the interval.

I would have thought that sort of functionality would be most people's #1 priority. It's why I bought the kickr. I can't see any way of doing this outside of trainer road (I want to use my ipad to control the kickr and trainer road doesn't support that).

Any ideas on other solutions?

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iMobileIntervals in beta can do this (specific wattage, not derived from Coggan), using workouts you build on the website or import from an erg file. Also I've just hooked up the ability to import Garmin Connect structured workouts, and you can create this kind of specific wattage workout there as well.

The app doesn't ramp the power over 5 seconds, its more like 1-2 seconds, but Ive been doing some of the Sufferfest workouts that we feature on the iMobileIntervals.com website, which have some submaximal intervals that for me are ~ 360 watts for 2+ minutes, and I don't find it a problem to get it turning over.

Got my Kickr via Clevertraining... all seems well and was pretty easy (my wife will be happy with no more tire residue). I am using with Trainer Road in simple ANT mode. My only available mac laptop is too old to handle Mountain Lion. Anyone know of a hack to enable BT 4.0 with a dongle on OS X 10.6?

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Like lots of others, with much anticipation I got my KICKr via Clevertraining, looked amazing out of the box - as others have already said it is built to last.

Unfortunately since then it has been a massive disappointment. I can connect to both the iPad 4 and iPhone 5 and change the resistance using the Wahoo Fitness app but neither speed or power is registered when I ride (come up as "na" on the display) and Erg and Level mode have no effect on resistance.

I emailed Wahoo support 4 days ago and apart from a short message saying they would try and sort it I have heard nothing since. Now thinking about sending it back..

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On the left side of the Kickr, on the top, you will find a plastic cap. If you remove that you will find a circuit board and two groups of wires. Each group of wires has a connector. Check to see if one of those connectors has come loose in shipping. That might explain the lack of speed or power data. I suspect that if you resolve that issue then your other ERG/Level issue will resolve itself. I had a similar issue, except mine involved something amiss with the circuit board. I had speed and power readings, but the Kickr's circuit board wasn't getting a reading from the flywheel, so it had the wrong offset value for making resistance adjustments.

If you do get power and speed readings, but still have the other issue, Wahoo will want you to use their Utility app to calibrate the Kickr. That app will give you an offset reading. If it's zero, you have a problem similar to mine. Record that reading, along with the serial number of your Kickr, and email that to Wahoo Support. They can compare that to what it read at the factory, and it may help to narrow down the source of the problem. I think in the future, these issues will be able to be resolved by simply swapping out the circuit board, which is a lot easier than shipping a Kickr back for repairs.

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Many thanks Neal, I appreciate your input. More interaction with Brad and it does indeed look like a problem with the electronics in the top cap, Brad has been helpful in sorting this out and they are now sending me a new one.

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Wahoo! I received my KICKR this week after coming back from a tri training camp in Lanzarote. I'm guessing it's one of the first in Europe, so thanks for the excellent review Ray and the heads up on Clever Training.

Here I was, thinking I was going to have to quit my job and join Sir Bradley on La Tour, kicking out 600+ Watts at a nice steady 122bpm… then I realised I needed to calibrate the KICKR. Doh!
Back on the day job since I'm pushing half that value and my quads are letting me know. The trainer feels great, really well made and very stable. The Wahoo Fitness and iMobileinterval apps have linked up instantly using my iPhone 5 and now I'm looking forward to getting stuck into training.

What I'm looking to do is set up a virtual Ironman Austria course so that I can 'ride' the route prior to the 30th June… Is there anything out there at present that will allow me to do this?

Brilliant site Ray - keep up the excellent work!

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Not at present, it's a bit of a gap in terms of functionality. In talking with the Kinomap guys, they are looking at offering a 'videoless' option to basically import in a GPS/GPX file from the course (those are easy to find, or failing that, make), and then have it control that without the video.

Honestly though, I think there's a clear market for a simple app that just takes any known GPS/GPX file and controls the resistance according to the corrected elevation curve (I say corrected, because it resolves issues with bad GPS elevation data).

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In some cases its OK, but most cases it sucks. The major problem is alot of people want to do Climb, climbs tend to have switch-backs with large drop-offs that even the "corrected" elevation data looks really really bad.

For Example, the local climb in Brisbane is between 3-6% grade, although if you look at the "corrected" data it ranges from -10% to 26%.... and this climb doesn't even have sharp switch-backs.

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Hmm...I don't think so. One thing that may help is to pop the little plastic cap off the top of the portion that the flywheel is attached to, peer down in there with a flashlight and see if anything bonks around (metallic) when you wiggle the trainer.

Perhaps Murray or one of the Wahoo guys might have some ideas.

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Yeah doesn't sounds very normal to me. If you can get a video or some audio of the sound it would be great. Probably best to just email it directly to our support so one of the mechanical guys can get back to you. Im just a lonely software guy :-)

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Update for those looking to use their trainer outdoors or otherwise away from an AC wall socket:

Don't buy the car power adapter listed above from Amazon. I ignored the admonishment from Ray and Wahoo that the Amazon-linked adapter *might* work and went ahead and ordered one. Visually at first glance, it looks like it should plug into the KICKR just fine, but it's just a *tiny* bit small in diameter (it's a female connector) and won't interface with the KICKR's male connector. So save your money and hopefully we will soon find a car adapter that will do the job.

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Thanks for the update/check. Actually odd now that I think of it, I never received my plug order...hmm odd. At any rate, I'll update/edit that note/comment above and circle back to the Wahoo guys and see if they've had a chance to test anything out.

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I received my kickr from Clever Training and notice that the back of the flywheel can rotate
a few degre and I was wondering if yours do the same thing. I wrote to wahoo and never got an answer so hope to have some feedback here.

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Just wanted to share a comment on the KICKR used with Kinomap: you currently need to launch at least once the "Wahoo Utility" app and connect it to the KICKR. This step is required to create a Bluetooth ID for the KICKR in your iPad/iPhone so that the discovery can be successful in Kinomap Trainer.

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Wahoo engineering sent this message about the dinging I hear when moving my KICKER around. FYI my KICKR works fine.
"This is just the strain gauge lever arm tapping against the backstop and creating a sort of pinging noise. That is completely normal and nothing to be concerned about!

Best regards,
Brad"

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So, I've used the kickr just about every other day and worked fine in erg mode when using iphone 5. i signed up fort the Trainerroad and aside from having to use the beta version in order to find the kicker, I find that it keeps dropping the signal where the power just zeros out. i have my macbook pro right infront of my handlebars. So figure that's probably 3.5 to 4feet from the kickr. I purchased mine on the 2nd of April. Would that have shipped with the latest firmware updates on it? I used the wahoo utility app and connected to the kickr but had no notification that it needed any kind of firmware update. i understand that it should pull up on the screen but i wasn't sure how long the app has to be open before the message shows up on the screen. I did an hour and half workout last night and the signal between the kickr and MBP was dropped easily 20 times. I had to stop pedaling for and let the trainer stop before starting again and then the it pick the signal back up. Am I doing something wrong? I didn't think that 3.5 to 4 feet is too far from the kicker. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Ed

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Just ordered a KICKR, heart rate monitor, and cadence sensor through CleverTraining through your link and coupon code to say thanks for your amazing work. Keep us up to date on software for the KICKR, I'm really looking forward to multiplayer options.

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Question:
-Will I be able to use my garmin SC sensor to transmit cadence info to Trainerroad or the Wahoo App (using bluetooth dongle + ant+ dongle on my mac) I'm not concerned with speed but need to know if I have to buy the wahoo cadence sensor as well. I realize that I probably won't be able to see the cadence if I'm using the wahoo app because the SC sensor doesn't have bluetooth.

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Yes, as noted you can use the Garmin GSC-10 to transmit over ANT+ and both the Wahoo App (using the ANT+ dongle on iPhone/iPad/iPod) or TrainerRoad (using the ANT+ stick), seamlessly blending them together.

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I ran some tests against my P2M and what i've seen was not overly impressive. There seems to be a drift lasting "forever" after the initial 7-10min warmup phase. That's also reflected by my HR which constantly decreases when doing longer sessions at steady watts. e.g. 2h in erg mode.

Interesting. I actually spent a lot of time looking at temperature drift. Mostly because I had access to an app to tell me what the reported temperature was inside the KICKR and how that was impacting the calibration and accuracy. I didn't see temperature drift beyond that initial 10-15ish minute period (typical of most PM's).

It does indeed have a temperature sensor in it.

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We do have several features we are looking at getting into the next firmware. Temperature compensation wasn't high on the list because we haven't seen it as an issue in our testing. Please get with Brad(support.wahoofitness.com) if you haven't already. If yours is drifting with temperature, we can use you as a beta tester for the temperature compensation.

thanks,

Chip

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I have a KICKR and a Cruzbike Vendetta that I am currently assembling.

I've checked the Vendetta fit on the KICKR and it fits fine but because of the way the front triangle works on the Vendetta you have to remove the skewer each time.

I thought the skewer on the Vendetta was going to be longer than the one on the KICKR and have to use the bike's skewer on the KICKR but they are the same length.

Additionally, the KICKR sits underneath the front end of the Vendetta (or other compatible Cruzbike) because of the MBB FWD orientation of the design.

The Cruzbike Quest with the SRAM Dual Drive doesn't really work because of the dual drive although you may be able to put it on the KICKR but you wouldn't have the 3 IGH gears and of course the KICKR 10-speed cassette would need to be replaced with a 9-speed.

The earlier Quests prior to the Dual Drive would work better, but again you would need a matching cassette on the KICKR.

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Hi, does anyone have an update on when there will be a windows compatible ANT+ solution available - would love to be able to use Trainerroad but can't justify buying a mac to be able to do so!

Also, any idea when there will be a solution where we can build our own course profile - build a route for future races etc. using data off the net? Being an expat living in Canada would love to be able to replicate old rides back in the UK - even if its not 100% accurate.

Both of these are touched on above but there's no new updates.

Thanks.

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PerfPro has it in beta today, though not publically available based on my understanding. Wahoo tweeted out yesterday that they were close to releasing the next firmware update which will then enable PerfPro to open up that beyond the closed beta.

TrainerRoad and others have the code as well (and have for almost a month now), but I'm not clear where they sit as far as incorporating it.

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Any word on a updated list of Apps for the Kickr mine should be here Saturday and I really want to try the Strava app. After looking over the current app options the Kickr really slacks in the real life videos. Kinomap looks good but only if someones ridden the course and how would you ride a whole Ironman course and record it? Your iphone wont hold that much data. A simple google maps app would be great! Tacx and Computrainer have figured it out something tells me the brains at Wahoo should to. Also a muilt unit app would be very helpful for coach's and indoor cycle classes. I really would like to stop using the computrainers for our class and switch them out with Kickrs but with the current apps its not possible. Wahoo please help me to retire these dinosaurs.

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Hi IronmanRordog,
Just wanted to precise 2 things about Kinomap:
- I've just checked and there is a part of an IronMan in New Orleans, another in France's Aix. And there are some triathlons too like the one posted earlier this week in the Sillicon Valley. You can use any camera like a GoPro along with any GPS file to record and upload your video.
- There's a multiplayer mode in Kinomap that lets you "play" a video with up to 4 people (current limitation due to the Game Center), you can even voice chat with each other.
Hope that helps.

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I have been wanting the same thing as IronmanRordog. Simply being able to use GPX or TCX files would be great. At the end of the day, that does what is needed, enables me to reuse MY routes which most times, I do not care about the video of. Not to mention it opens up the use of many other routes where video is not available. To me this is a no brainer.

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I would be thrilled if someone released an way to use the tcx or fit files, as you described, alongside a google streetview or map. Videos are cool, but the streetview data exists already for virtually every place I'd want to ride, and I'm getting it would be cheaper to code and maintain.

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Have a read up the comments and I explain some of the issues with loading raw GPS files and issues we had with the Strava app.

We started full time work back on Segments this week, hopefully we shouldn't take long to update it to use some new API from Strava that gives use access to great elevation data for most of the segments. I will keep everyone posted on here with its progress. Otherwise, follow us on twitter and I will post updates there as well.

Thanks

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I saw that the KICKR was designed to have the front wheel on the ground, but I'm thinking about buying a riser block like you're using in the pictures. Would you recommend using one? Would it be much different without it?

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Just received my Kickr. I have had a few challenges with it that I have emailed to Wahoo for advice. 1) I didn't receive the 135 spacer 2) The wheel that the casset is attached to is slightly hitting the plastic cover that is partly covering it??? its really annoying. 3) it keeps asking me if I want to update the firmware and each time I do its fails on me. I then need to unplug everything and try again with no success. I had a workaround by doing the update with my Ipad instead of my iphone5. Seems like its working better now with connectivity to my Iphone 5 now that the update is done. Really no cadence with out cadence meter??? That has been a big disappointment and it doesn't seem to be a very good app selection at the current time. I haven't given up yet on it as I just got it but I need to say things are not starting out so good compared to computrainer and Taxc but then again they also had there challenges when I first got them. I will do a update to be fair to Wahoo after a few rides.

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Anyone else having power issues after the most recent firmware update this week?

My Kickr was performing within 0 to 7 watts of my Quarq (made an excel spreadsheet to track variation). After this week's firmware update, my Kickr is now off by 40+ watts.

For example, a steady 5 minutes at 215 watts set on the Kickr showed an average of 213 watts on the Kickr and 171 watts on the Quarq. Using the exact same Quarq and same Kickr before the firmware update, the 5 minute power variation was 3, 0 and 5 at roughly an average of 238 watts for the 5 minutes. Now the Kickr is off by 42 watts.

Submitted a ticket to Wahoo but want to know if anyone else is having this issue. Since it worked before, I am assuming that this is a firmware/software issue.

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DC (comment #197) When you use your GoPro camera to capture video and another device to capture GPS info (I understand the simultaneous starting concept), how do you handle pauses, like for a stoplights or traffic or long trains? I'd like to edit that type of thing out before uploading to Kinomap for virtual rides on my KICKR. Can you edit the video and GPS data so they stay in sync? I'm trying to build a virtual ride library for use when I can't get outside.

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Hi Dave 1929 (and Ray).
You actually don't need to start GPS and video recording at the same time: Kinomap uploader handles an offset that you can define (currently on PC but really that's a matter of days now before we, finally, have a universal version working on PC, Mac and even Linux). So what you should typically do is to start GPS recording before so that you're sure to get a GPS fix and even just record the whole day in a single GPS file: then use this file and add the video file to the timeline. You just need to find something in the video that you'll see also on the map, like a crossroads, paintings on the road, etc.
The video can be trimmed at the beginning or end but should not be edited in the middle: otherwise the one frame sync system won't work for the whole video.
But that's not a real problem because if there are stoplights and you continue pedalling, the video will speed up or catch you up.
Hope that helps.

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Just as a general FYI for those reading along via comment notifications on KICKR, both PerfPro and Peripedal have announced and made available ANT+ compatibility for controlling KICKR this week (from a Windows machine). Details for KICKR compatibility on each below:

Superb article. Made startup very easy. After setup, I noticed a problem where if my Kickr trainer is unplugged, I can spin the pedals freely; however, if I plug it in, the pedals will spin freely for 2-3 revolutions and then become so hard that I can't continue. If I wait for a few seconds, it will free up and repeat the above after 2-3 more cycles. I have paired it to my iPhone 4S and have updated the Wahoo Fitness App. In Level mode, the setting is zero. Changing to any of the other modes, all set to zero, there is no difference. What am I missing?

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After a couple of e-mails, I discovered that initial recognition of the Kickr must be done through the Utility app, because it turns off all resistance. This in turn will allow you to perform the spindown calibration. Finally, the Wahoo Fitness app or the Kinomap app can be used.

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Well I have my Kickr for over a week and support is slow as Molasses in January. I am not getting a correct speed on the Kickr. I have followed supports advice to look at the cap next to the fly wheel and take a picture and send it to them, so wait 24 hours and then another question and so on and so on. Hey WAHOO have you ever heard of a telephone!!!! One question every 24 hours is ridiculous. Anyway I still have no idea why no correct speed, I can't calibrate because the fastest Kickr shows is around 7mph. So pack it up and send it back??? I hate having a 1000 dollar doorstop.

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I agree with Jerry regarding the speed of support - which frankly (the speed) is understandable when it is all via email. Email only is also unacceptable and I think it should be called out as a major issue in any review, including this one. It would be lessened if they (Wahoo) provided any form of live help, like online chat or something.

What I find unacceptable (as do others I know that have purchased the Kickr) as a customer is having no live support (voice, chat, anything) for a product that costs north of $1000 US. For most of their product which are low cost, or even their scale - this is not really an issue. For an expensive and more complicated product most customers feel better knowing they can speak to a real person if needed. I have personally cautioned people who are considering the Kickr because they should be aware of the slowness and to make sure they are comfortable with not being able to have someone that you can work through issues with live.

Starting support with email or submitting a ticket is fine and makes sense; that vets issues that need more support vs people who immediately call, rather than reading the manual. Once it is obvious that a call would save everyone time, or the issue is real, it is horribly anti-customer to have no option available. Using Jerry's post above as an example, why not provide a means of speaking with someone after asking for the picture? It can be as simple as send me a photo (as he described) along with some times available to speak and a phone number. Once submitted, the support person confirms the date/ time to speak. Having an issue that takes a duration of 5 days to resolve, for what could have taken less than 5 minutes is not acceptable and not even good business.

Keep in mind, the email only support applies to orders submitted, meaning if an error is made with an order (incorrect item(s) shipped, overcharged etc) you need to do it via email rather than just a quick call.

Like I said, even if a support number is not provided to the general public - having a mechanism in place for providing live support would not only make for happier customers, but also make the product seem like less of a risk. Personally, I find it a bit unnerving to purchase a $1000 product and have no ability to "speak" with anyone if needed, other than via email. We customers paid you money, the least you could do is support your product in a way that is most efficient and effective.

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Doesn't help that the damn thing is still in beta, with all the hardware bugs people are reporting, what I still don't understand is why they didn't just include regular 3.0bt and a usb port it's a powered trainer, just feels like they had their minds set on building something that only works well with apple products.

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For those of you considering a Kickr, echo Jerry's comment that support is exceptionally poor. Opened a service request on Thursday at 10:07 AM about buggy firmware. It's now Tuesday at 4:25 PM and I have absolutely no response. I truly hope that Wahoo Fitness does not make the mistake of irritating its early adopters.

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Sorry for the slow response lately. We haven't rolled support over to dedicated customer service people, instead we are letting Brad who is one of the engineers behind the KICKR manage support. This helps us stay on top of issues and solve problems as quick as possible since the product is new. We just ordered a some headphones so we can take calls with our Zendesk customer support system. Brad's been giving out his cell number when things are really tricky. I'm going to jump in and help Brad get caught up and Megan and Cris are also getting up to speed. We appreciate your patience, we want to make sure your experience with KICKR is awesome.

thanks,

Chip from Wahoo

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Finally unboxed my Kickr (been sitting in the garage for 2 weeks) and hooked the bike up. I bought PerfStudio which is supposed to control the Kickr through ANT+ (requires 2 ANT sticks). It will read the power meter fine, but won't add it as a trainer. Perf Studio recommends the latest firmware for the Kickr, but it seems I need an iSomething to be able to update the firmware. Bit of a catch-22. Any ideas?

Also, a bit odd there are 0 hits at Wahoo for "firmware update."

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So to update all and to be fare to Wahoo everything seems to be working fine once I got the update from a Ipad. It took a few days for Wahoo to get back to me and they offered to help me fix the plastic cover issue but its very minor and will fix its self on its own after a few rides with the plastic getting worn down. Now all we need are more apps to play with. I am going to try the perfprostudio.com aoftware next. So far I have been impressed with the iphone app and the trainer. I would replace my tacx and computrainer with a Wahoo Kickr and the future is very bright!

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One annoyance that I've found when using Kinomap is that changes in elevation seem to cause a disproportional change in resistance on the Kickr trainer. Going from 2.5% to 4.5% will almost stop the trainer.

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Hey Brad @ Wahoo is there any way to add usb the the trainer, are there any diagnostic connections I could make use of? What about letting it work over regular BlueTooth, BTLE on a device that you plug into a wall doesn't really serve any real purpose. any way to add a wifi module?

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Hey folks, I have been in email contact with Brad and Megan i.e. Kickr support. First I have to say that they went all in and are sending a return authorization to send mine back. I think that is the best recourse right now. I don't know what is wrong and I don't really care I just want it to work!
i have not heard anywhere else but here that you should recognize the Kickr with Wahoo utility first??? Is this true. Can anyone from Wahoo confirm this?
Thanks
Jerry

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You should connect the KICKR to the Wahoo Utility first for 3 reasons:

1. Ensure you have the latest firmware
2. Register the device so we have all the contact details.
3. Work around a bug with Kinomap pairing. KICKR's will only pair in kinomap if they have been paired in the Wahoo Utility or the Wahoo Fitness app first.

Murray

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Thanks Murray, although I am not using Kinomap I will use the utility to connect first!
I do appreciate this site as a quasi support area. It really helps as instructions are a little sparse.
Thanks
Jerry

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I have had a very positive experience so far with my Kickr -- I ordered through CleverTraining (thanks for the discount Ray!).

I am currently using my iPhone5 with the Ant+ Key (for my Garmin HR and Cadence). My first few rides I just used the Wahoo Fitness app in the erg mode to get used to it. I attempted the Trainer Road app, however, my Mac is in my office and the sensors can't read that far...and I sure don't want to lug my bike and a 50 lb. trainer back and forth!

I next tried, and have been using since, the KinoMap app. I have my bike set up in the living room (although the wife isn't too pleased) and I have the iPhone "beam" the signal to the AppleTV so I can watch it all on the big screen! The KinoMap app is optimized for the AppleTV and it makes it nice and pretty on the screen.

I have so far been very pleased with the Kickr and look forward to more apps and software to utilize. This has made indoor riding something I look forward to now!

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I just received my KICKR and Wahoo Key yesterday from Clever Trainer also using Ray's discount. I haven't opened it yet, hoping to test it out Sunday. My question to you Brian is when using the key, I assume you bought the adapter. Did you have any problems? I was playing the key last night and I have one adapter with a cord that I got off of ebay, but it seem not to work. I just wanted to check before spending $30 on the official adapter.
Thanks,
Jeff

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I second the question about when Strava segments will release. I like Kinomap, but I'd really like to have Strava segments also. There is only one Kinomap ride in my several state area, but lots of Strava segments all over my riding area.

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Hi
Need help!!
Just unboxed my Aussie Kickr and I'm not convinced its working as it should!
Basically, unless I'm in resistance mode, the resistance maxes out within 2-3 seconds in all other modes.
Level 0 is the same as Level 9. 000 is the same as 400 in erg and so on.
I'm controlling it via a new iPad Mini with BlueTooth4, cadence and HR via ANT, using the Wahoo app. Using MobileIntervals gives me the same result.
It's as per outbofvthe box, except it wanted to do a software update, so I let it.
Any thoughts??
Cheers
RSD

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I'm sure our support team can help you out! Shoot them a support request and they will get things straightened out for you. In the mean time I might suggest checking out this support topic: link to support.wahoofitness.com

Best regards,
Brad

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sorry guys, not unwilling, we still don't have a solid date. We've had a hard time getting the first production lot ready. Production samples are on the way to us now. If all goes well we should have units in 3-4 more weeks.

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Seems the easiest thing to do for Campy folks is just to respace the Shimano cassette that comes with the KICKR.
Campy spacers are readily available, or you can use ones from a worn out cassette you already have.link to amazon.com

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Very, very, very disappointed to see the pricing of the KICKR that has just been released to the EU. When it was released for $1000 I thought awesome, and even when it went to $1100 I thought still great, but to be released at €1100 this immediately is a no no. Why oh why does everything always have to be the same number in £ as it is in $ when there is +-1.6 ratio between the two. The KICKR here should be costing me about £600-700 not £1050. I have literally been checking the website weekly for the last 2-3 months to see when EU distribution was available.

If anyone from Wahoo is reading this forum, please take note of what was a guaranteed customer who has been waiting like a little child for christmas since I first read about this product only to be bitterly disappointed :(

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Rab
I agree, there is no way that I will pay that sort of money for the Kickr. I was waiting for it to be released in Europe too. Now, instead I'll buy a second hand computrainer or powerbeam pro. They've missed a big opportunity to corner the market...

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We appreciate the comments and are always listening! Sonny hit on one major point which is that the advertised US pricing doesn't include tax. That, combined with the additional duties and taxes were what led to the current pricing. Trust us, we wish we could sell the KICKR for £600!

Best regards,
Wahoo Brad

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Ray - noticed in your July 1 'Brick-Taper' review that you're still on the Kickr, which I take as a good sign. Wondering about any niggles / issues that may have developed in the past four months of use? I'm presently on a Computrainer, which works well, but is a hassle to set up. Thx!

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No issues for me. I returned the loaner unit and went out and got my own. The Girl and I swap back and forth with her trainer rides one night and mine the next. I still use the CompuTrainer as well, merely because sometimes she's on the KICKR or if I'm too lazy to take her bike off of it.

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Attention KICKR lovers! the latest release of iMobileIntervals link to itunes.apple.com has support for ANT+ control of the KICKR.

iMobileIntervals is an interval training and general purpose cycling/running iPhone app. Some more new features:
Garmin Connect structured workout support
Garmin Connect calendar support
Cadence TV workout support

So: you may now build interval workouts on Garmin Connect, access them by the day on your Garmin Connect calendar right in the iMobileIntervals app, load them to the app and run them with or without voice prompts for the intervals, control the KICKR automatically per interval in erg mode (a la Computrainer) then automatically or manually communicate the activity back to Garmin Connect (or iMobileIntervals.com, TrainingPeaks, or your desktop via DropBox).

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Correct, but the announcement only allows supported Windows Phones to then allow developers to leverage it. From there, apps would have to support the KICKR. I don't see Wahoo doing that soon unfortunately (though they are more than welcome to correct me), I suspect we'd see them focus on Android first.

But, other apps certainly could. And, we could potentially see it branch out to things like Windows RT apps as well.

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My kickr and 4iiii HRM were shipped out by Clever Training today their local time. I hope I got no issue with the kickr as the others here and no shipping issues as well.

Clever Training people, they're wonderful. Originally I ordered CycleOps PB Pro, but I asked for a change with the HRM without having to pay additional $8 after 10% discount. I know it's only $8, but no hassle for me to re-order as they just modified the items.
Also thanks to Ray for conveying my message to them during last weekend.

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Hi, I love your app.
I can't wait for it to have more features, at least to have a gradient-based (or course only mode in perfpro studio, link to perfprostudio.com), so that we could import a gpx or tcx file for example and ride the course while imobileintervals control the kickr resistance based on the gradient.

The difficulty maybe is in getting the gradient data from google map or openstreetmap or any other map source.

If you don't have this feature in your future plan yet, please add it.
If you have it there already, i hope to see the feature soon.

Thanks
-wawan-

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This looks like a decent product and I would like to try one. However, I am a bit disappointed by the pricing. I have seen them for as little as $900 USD in the USA, but in Australia I cannot find any for less than $1200 USD.

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Does Wahoo actually have customer support? I had a few questions I was hoping to get answered prior to purchasing, it has been over a week and I sent three emails, as there is no phone number and to date not a single response. This only tells me if there is a warranty issue, you would be sh@t out luck and at $1,100 that is not even remotely cool

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Sorry you are having trouble reaching us. Did you email support at WahooFitness.com? I'll double check when I get to office but pretty sure we are responding pretty quick. Murray was out on vacation last week and Brad is out this week, so we're running a little lean.
Thanks,
Chip

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Ray,
You know of any 3rd party ANT keys to be used with the KICKR that has the lightning connector so you can connect to a iPad mini or iPhone 5? From the review I believe I understand the only thing I don't have is cadence unless I get the BlueSC. I really don't want to switch between my Garmin set and the Wahoo each weekend, so I am hoping for a 3rd party or Wahoo comes out with one soon.
Thanks,
Jeff
PS I have ordered the KICKR from Clever Training

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The calibration is stored on the KICKR, so no need to calibrate in each app. If you calibrate every 2-4 weeks or every time you move it where the KICKR gets knocked around a bit (like a car trip) you should be good to Crank it Up :-)

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1. The KICKR will come with a US, AU, or EU plug based on the purchase location. If you need something difference you are best buying a new cord. Sometimes referred to a "Kettle" cord, its the same used in nearly all PC tower units. IEC 60320 C13 is the offical name. link to en.wikipedia.org

2. Yep. You will need a BT 4.0 device (new iOS device)

3. Yep, just pair it up in the Wahoo Utility and you can also do step 4.

5. Give it test run in the Wahoo Fitness app, you can quickly test each mode and see what each of the option do.

6. FTP Test - Either you can use our app (use the lap feature) or TrainerRoad/PerfPro are great for running FTP tests. Personally, I love the Sufferest Rubber Glove test.

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You don't need a riser, the KICKR is adjustable for different size bikes, although some people still prefer to use one.

We have a hard case designed and can be made to order directly through the supplier. Not that cheap, so it was best to let the customer buy direct. You can email aupport and ask for Brad to send you details.

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Yay, got the kickr today and tried it. Got to collect it from DHL warehouse as this is Saturday, and can't wait till Monday. My viiii HR strap will arrive on Monday too, but I can't wait till Monday for that. All using Ray's code in clevertraining.

Awesome feel. A bit noisy, but comparable to other trainer or roller. Tried it using wahoofitness and trainerroad.

Question though: how do i set up my 910xt to read the speed info from kickr? I used my powermeter crank as power source, but no speed source yet. A bit confused.
Thanks

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I don't think the 910 will support connecting to two power meters at once. The KICKR is a power meter that transmits power and speed. The powermeter crank is transmitting as a power meter with power and cadence. Not sure if Trainer Road supports using two power meters and selecting certain data from each. We are looking at allowing the KICKR to read from 3rd party power meters and retransmit, so you could get power/speed/cadence all from the KICKR. We're focusing on getting the Segments App out first though.

thanks,
Chip@wahoo

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BT and BTLE are very different technologies, it would require changing the hardware. BTLE gives us the flexibility to manage all the communications and avoids all the bugs and hassles of BT Classic that made it virtually impossible to use for a custom device like the KICKR. BT is great for dedicated purposes that are well supported by devices like BT headsets and speakers. Trying to use classic BT for something like the KICKR where we need to manage the connection and what we communicate is possible but different on every device that supports BT.

Now that Android released official support for BTLE(3 years after Apple) we should be able to provide a working solution. Keep in mind that the only device that it works with is the Nexus 7. None of the current phones have announced when they will provide updates to 4.3. It will probably be a bit more of a wait. Hopefully we'll be ready with software by the time the more popular phones are actually capable. We've been working on it for years...

Chip@wahoo

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If you use the iMobileIntervals app you can connect both your crank powermeter and the KICKR, get speed from the KICKR, cadence from the crank, and power (displayed and recorded) from whichever you choose. Also, there is a global offset watts for the KICKR so if you find that the KICKR and your powermeter register a different watts you can offset the KICKR so that when it is set to an ERG watts its adusted up or down so that your crank powermeter registers the ERG watts (e.g. you want 300 watts on your power meter, but when your powermeter registers 300, the KICKR says 305, so you adjust the KICKR down 5 watts).

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Thanks Guys. In near ideal world, we could select what data from which source (e.g.: cadence from crank, speed from kickr, power from crank, etc.). I think it's very close now.
So, I will try imobileintervals tomorrow, and perfpro the next day.
I like to use this priority list as the head unit: 910xt, wahoofitness app, imobileinterval, trainerroad, perfpro.
If I could have more than one (usually max 3), I like to compare the result among them, which usually very close. (Just imagining myself being Ray reviewing all those gadget and apps).

And yes, I usually watch movie or cycling video and set the volume high enough so that the trainer noise can be ignored.

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Consider this scenario:
- using TrainerRoad/Perfpro/iMobileInterval to control Kickr using anyone of their workout
- using wahoofitness as a head unit to record data, additional to data recorded by other applications (I use another phone or ipad if I use imobileintervals)

If I turn on the "Control your KICKR power trainer", will it affect the control by those 3 app ?
If I turn off the screen, does it mean wahoofitness app does not have any control on KICKR and only act as a head unit?

Thanks

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I've read through all of the comments and am still confused over the control part. For example, I have a Garmin 500 that I use to see the Garmin heart rate monitor and cadence sensor I have on the bike already. I know that the Kickr then broadcasts the ANT+ power profile that the Garmin can also read and record. From reading the Wahoo site, if there is no other control, it will default to level 2 and operate independent of any control.
With that set up, can I then control the Kickr with an iPad/iPhone over the bluetooth network (utilizing both the ANT+ and bluetooth signals at the same time)? The ANT+ profile would be used just for sending to the Garmin, and the bluetooth to receive control signals from the iPad/iPhone. I am trying to avoid having to go buy blue tooth accessories (heart rate and cadence) or ANT+ keys as I am very happy with the Garmin accessories.

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Just got my KICKR. Started set up. Pairing via. Bluetooth to Iphone 5 no problem and it downloaded latest firmware. Using both Wahoo Utility and Wahoo Fitness and attempting to calibrate but no speed or power data being transmitted, hence impossible to calibrate as trainer thinks it is not moving. Paired it via ANT+ (as power meter) to my Garmin and again it paired no problem but no data being sent. Anybody got any idea on the problem? Without knowing more I would think the unit is dead and not reading or sending any data either on BT or ANT+. Really want this thing to work!

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Check that the top cap is installed correctly. This is located on the top of the main diagonal steel support tube. If the plastic cap isn't setting completely down on the frame, the speed sensor may not be able to read the speed disc. If this doesn't fix your problem, shoot me an email at brad@wahoofitness.com

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I found out the problem is with the sensor in the top cap. If I push the cap closer to the target disc (black and white disc on fly wheel) then I get speed and power readings. I am working with Brad from Wahoo to fix this issue.

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The KICKR can handle the power from your sprints but, like most stationary trainers, will hold your bike completely vertical. We don't recommend full on standing sprints on the KICKR, simply because of the stresses that are transferred to your bike frame.

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Hi! Sorry if this has been addressed, but I was wondering: Is there any point in getting a trainer this advanced if you already have a direct force power meter installed on your bike? Would it give me anything above and beyond what a quarq + $400 trainer could provide? Thanks!

-Logan

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In my opinion, one of the biggest differences between the setup you mentioned and the KICKR is that the KICKR gives you complete control over the resistance of the trainer and can simulate a real road ride. Also, Erg mode keeps you honest in your intervals and makes interval training far easier. When you set the power to 245 watts, it will automatically adjust and hold you there regardless of your speed.

A couple other big things that come to mind are the wheel off design and high inertia flywheel that you can't get with a typical $400 trainer!

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Quite the opposite actually! Regardless of your cadence or gear ratio, the KICKR will adjust to maintain the power output you have selected. This means you can be riding at 95 Watts to warm up, then set the KICKR to 270 Watts and it will adjust to that set point as you continue to pedal. If you then try to speed up or slow down, the KICKR will still hold 270 Watts until you adjust the settings.

One other huge advantage to the KICKR is that we have an open API. This allows anyone to develop software or Apps to control the KICKR and is the reason programs such as Trainer Road, Kinomap Trainer, iMobileIntervals, Perf Pro Studios and more work with the KICKR.

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Its funny, but this is an area that I have even found some cycling industry professionals not grasping. The trainer doesn't care what gear or cadence you are using. it will adjust, dynamically, the resistance so that you are generating the required watts. Want to train climbing at 300 watts? Shift to the 39/25 and pedal 60rpm. Want to simulate motorpace/race pack riding at 300 watts? Shift to the 53/12 and pedal 90rpm.

And you can design workouts, e.g. with our app, made of intervals with visual/audio commands to change cadence while sending the interval-specific ERG value to the trainer.

This is a whole different world from just running a powermeter on a traditional trainer.

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They are scheduled to ship from our factory to us on August 14th. We should be able to ship them to customers starting as soon as we get them in hand likely around the 20th of August. We originally thought we could use off the shelf units, but ended up having to custom design and manufacture them so it took much longer than anticipated. If you'd like one email support at wahoofitnes dot com and they will make sure and get you on the list. We're launching a new website in the next couple weeks, so they might not get online right away.

Chip@wahoo

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The upcoming option is a Campy Freehub that will replace the Shimano Freehub that comes with the KICKR. It will make the KICKR into a true Campy KICKR. Brad will make some instructions and videos to show how to install it before we start shipping. If you are comfortable swapping out a cassette you should be able to swap it yourself, otherwise you might want to take it to a shop or ask the shop you buy it from to swap it for you when you buy it.

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This is great news for Campy people! I would like to order a KICKR with that option as soon as possible (Europe). Any way I can order a KICKR now with the option included, or do I have to wait until you have released this option.

Kind regards,
Mats

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Just to clarify, the Campy freehub is sold separately from the KICKR and does not include the cassette itself. It's a simple installation that only requires a 17mm wrench and Campy cassette lock ring tool. If you don't already have these tools, your local bike shop definitely will! We will release instructions on our website for installing the Campy freehub once it becomes available.

Best regards,
Brad

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DC
I have a GoPro Hero 3 that I've recorded some rides with and want to upload them to Kinomap for use with my KICKR. Kinmap support has been really good about trying to help me, but I just can't get the process right to convert and upload the files to Kinomaps. Would you mind sharing your process for uploading GoPro files to Kinomap and what file format and specs you use? I'm trying to upload 3 and 4 files (1920x1080) to make one long ride. My GPS data is from an iPhone five using MapMyRide.

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Segments by Wahoo Fitness allows you to ride Strava segments indoors on your KICKR Power Trainer!

A Segment is Strava's term for a specific section of a road, climb or trail. You can create segments from your rides at Strava.com

This app is a fun and effective way to go head to head against the King or Queen of the Mountain, your friends, or simply compete against your own personal record. Whether it is your favourite neighbourhood dash or a classic alpine ascent on the other side of the world, Segments and KICKR bring the full Strava experience into your home.

I've been experiencing some 'slippage' on the belt on my Kickr- usually when fly wheel is quite warm and pushing reasonable wattage (400-450w). It's hard to determine exactly what's going on but it seems the belt is slipping where it drives the flywheel assembly. It feels like it is stripping gears and sort of rackets along with the pedal stroke- effectively providing no resistance. Anyone else have this?

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Can you check in with our support portal(support.wahoofitness.com) It sounds like your belt is loose for some reason. Brad can help you with instructions on how to get the tension just right and hopefully figure out what caused it to loosen up in the first place!

thanks,

Chip

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I just received the Wahoo Kickr (Thanks Ray for the 10% discount) and the setup went flawless :). All though, I am having issues getting a good signal via Ant+ to my PC when using Trainer Road. It seems to pair the Wahoo, but I get a bad/poor signal which doesn't let me utilize the ERG function. I'm using Garmin's Ant+ USB stick. Anyone suggestions?

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My Garmin stick was just purchased with it's intended purpose to be be used with the Wahoo. It's the small version versus the larger stick.

I have a 16 ft. USB extension cable to get the stick further away from my computer and closer to the Wahoo. I'm debating on purchasing the Suunto Movestick Mini, but it looks identical to what I currently have. Do you think it would be worth a try?

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Since the last posted comment I've been using my MacPro and things are definitely better with connection signal. All though, I"m still having something weird happen during every ride with Trainer Road. Intermittently during my session I'll receive a "Set mode failed, searching" and I lose connection. From here I'll need to refresh the system and pause my workout, very annoying during a hard interval. I haven't noticed any pattern of why this would happen, but I never had any issues with the Power Beam by Cycleops. The signal between the Wahoo and the computer is typically good or excellent when this happens.

Any help would be appreciated.

Alan

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Have you guys at Wahoo tested strain and deformation on bikes at different power. See the german Tour test:link to tour-magazin.de

The german test shows deformation/strain for 100-1000 watt in comparison between trainer (with roller) and road. They measured with strain gauges placed at different points at the frames. But these test are for trainers with rollers, so these are probably useless for the Kickr. The result is interesting. Use on roller trainers give less strain compared to road! So, the common advice to avoid sprints for roller trainers seem to be wrong, according to the german tests.

Any comments on this? (I have already seen Wahoo recommendation to avoid Sprint.)

Best regards
Mats

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I've seen some of their tests in the past, and have always left both a bit confused and with more questions. For example - in this case - how did they determine if the strain was bad? Strain is normal, is this strain beyond limits?

(Note: Google Translation may be missing key things that make it more difficult to understand).

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Not easy for me either as my normal language is swedish :) But I give it a try. They measured bending is on right chain stay (BK), deflection of seat tube (BS) and torsion of tube? (TU). They measured with ""strain gauges", applied in these measure-points. They recorded frame deformation at these points, with different load (100-1000 watt).

The deformation was not permanent, even on sprints. So, the frame wasn´t damaged. Their (not mine) conclusion is that the elastic deformation is bigger when you ride on road compared to roller trainer!

My question is. What about deformation when you use a KICKR. Have Wahoo made any measurements on this? The load on a bikes frame is for sure not the same as with a normal roller trainer. Hopefully the KICKR flexes when you ride it, in order to decrease the load on the frame. I will order a KICKR soon, but I´m not sure if I should mount my most expensive bike on it...

Any comments from KICKR users on this?

Mats

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We have not done any specific tests on frame stresses. I would expect test results for "wheel on" trainers would be applicable to the KICKR, since we clamp the frame in a similar manner. I can understand how road stresses could be equal to or even greater than trainer stresses in a sprinting situation. If you envision on an outdoor ride leaning your bike hard to one side, applying full pedal force on the high side while pulling it back to the other side with your upper body, the stresses on the frame are substantial. That scenario likely creates a stress situation on the frame that is higher than you would see on a trainer. We don't recommend sprints, because in the unlikely event you were to damage the frame most bicycle manufacturers will not honor their frame warranty. I would suggest using common sense on an indoor all out effort, avoid driving the frame side to side with your upper body since the KICKR is going to restrain it from moving in this direction.

thanks,

Chip from Wahoo

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Can people from Yahoo clarify on delivery for Europe. Last week there was selectable option (on the Wahoo site) for European delivery. According to this forum units have been delivered to Europe. Today I got the following answer from Wahoo support. It must be a mistake?

Best regards
Mats

"Unfortunately we are unable to ship the Wahoo Kickr to any international addresses.

Kind Regards,
Mariah"

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Wahoo added a European processing/shipping center a few months back. Thus, they ship from their European distributors to Europeans. But non-European companies need to restrict sales to the their own locales.

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KICKR does not work with the Cycleops Virtual Training software. The industry is in the middle of a big change and while I have no knowledge on Cycleops plans, the industry as a whole is moving to standardise trainer communications, so the future looks good.

Murray

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As it stands today, I prefer the KICKR, because of the open platform and the fact that it has BOTH BLE and ANT+. Down the road, if the PowerBeam adopts the various platforms, then I'm likely to make it either/or.

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Because it adds the ability to 'force' you to stay at a given wattage, and that precise wattage. So if you do 10 intervals at 250w, on the LeMond you've gotta play with speed/gearing/cadence to get it right on. With the CompuTrainer/Kickr/etc... you can choose any cadence/speed you'd like and you'll have it hold that 250w, and no matter how much you falter, it's going to keep on holding that 250w.

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There's two areas of training - one is pure strength adaptation. So, in this case it's the fact that the trainer (be it KICKR, CompuTrainer or whomever) is holding the power and like it or not you're going to be doing it at a prescribed interval.

This is useful in that you can make very precise workouts and thus in effect control your recovery time as well.

On the flip side - learning how to push outside is just as important. For me, I can actually throw down much higher wattages on a trainer than outside during a TT (typically). I do much better climbing however, and typically hit my highest numbers (per zone) while climbing.

So it's a bit of both.

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I'm somewhat dead in the water with the Stages app until Wahoo figures out what's going on with the iPad 2 and ANT key configuration. In the mean time, I've been trying to use Kinomap. I don't know what routes you've been riding, but I find it borderline unusable. Most routes have terrible elevation dropouts, so going up Alpe d'Huez, I'm climbing and then descending at -10% for 45 seconds where it's clear that's just an elevation error. Chicago triathlon is basically pancake flat, but the course has 10% grade kicks on Kinomap. Any suggestions on Kinomap courses that are somewhat rideable? Any resources you're familiar with that would rate the kinomap courses? Figuring it out yourself seems like a terrible n=1 waste. Thanks!

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I'm in the same boat with Kinomap -- I really enjoyed it at first with the ability to AirPlay to the TV however, the constant elevation issues made it "borderline unusable" to me as well (the last time I rode the Chicago Tri also was the final straw!).

I've found that TrainerRoad is awesome! I just put my iPod in, have something on the TV to look at and ride whatever workout I pull up that day. I have not tried to add in the videos yet but I'm sure that makes it even better.

Now, with the addition of the Wahoo Segments app for the iPad, I have a hard time choosing sometime between TrainerRoad or Segments! The segments I have ridden with the latest update have not had any of the elevation issues that Kinomap has. It isn't perfect, however it feels as if it is very smoothed out.

So I would recommend trying those two and I'm sure you will forget about Kinomap!

Brian

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Hi Mike, Brian,
I understand your frustration on this aspect: elevation inaccuracy due to GPS devices, especially in the mountain (Canyon effect) is a real challenge. But we're working hard on it and will have a fix soon, thanks to some experience we got in the last months.
In the meantime, I strongly encourage you to select videos that have a corrected elevation profile line that does not include this kind of drops: the ones in which you don't see too many green/orange/red changes actually.
Thanks.
Laurent

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Laurent, I'd really appreciate if you could look into adding a filter ability, so that we could look at only the rides that have elevation correction applied. Searching manually for these rides is very time consuming, when I'd really like to just go for a ride. Thanks for participating in the discussion!

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The only thing holding me back from purchasing the Wahoo Kickr is the lack of head unit/android control. I have a mac and an Android phone, and like you said DC I would rather not have to use my sweaty hands on my mac to control the workout. How far out is the Android app or the RFLKT head unit? My last trainer broke so I'm stepping up to a watt trainer, the PowerBeam Pro might beat out the Kickr because everything is available now.
Any info?

Jesse

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just ordered a Kickr for switzerland (over apple store) and looking forward trying it out!!
I have 1 question concerning connectivity: does the kickr send the data (power and speed and as far as i understood no cadence) simultaneously via ANT+ and bluetooth 4.0? meaning: can i, at the same time during a workout, get the data on my garmin 500 (via ant+) as well as on my iphone 5 (via bluetooth 4.0)?
thanks in advance for help!

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Great detailed review, I purchased a Kickr because of this review but starting to regret my purchase. It's day 2 of the product not registering correct speed or any power over 25 watts. I've been in contact with support but a sense of urgency doesn't seem to be top priority for them and quality of the internals may not be as good as I expected for something costing $1,100. I'll wait and see how this turns out but SUPER frustrating to spend this kind of money and basically get a paper weight out of the box. I may regret getting rid of my computrainer for the Kickr.

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Really sorry you are having trouble! Brad was in and out of the office today recording videos, so may not have gotten back to you right away. If there is something wrong with your KICKR we'll get it taken care of ASAP. I just wrote you back with my cell number and email and some more things to try in the support ticket. We'll get it sorted.

thanks,

Chip

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All due respect, your reply is great for Brian, but there's a constant theme throughout this thread. Folks email your customer service, get nowhere, finally get frustrated, post here, and then hear an excuse about why things are behind. I've been waiting for weeks to find out about why Segments isn't working on an iPad 2 with ANT key when other KICKR apps are, with no response. It's more than frustrating to feel like Wahoo only deals with customer issues when they are public.

My suggestion to you is that you guys have developed a great product, and have customers who will cut you some slack, since you're small and 'up-and-coming'. But that isn't going to last forever. Wahoo needs to make a serious investment in their customer support before they're ready to handle the expectations behind launching an $1100 product.

An extremely dissapointed yours.

Mike

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There is always room for improvement and we are constantly tweaking how we do things to get the best support for our customers. I get the emails here immediately when somebody posts a comment and generally when somebody pops on here, something has broken down in the system and we take it seriously.

I looked up your issue and it looks like Murray promised to look into the issue you had with your iPad 2 and Segments a few weeks ago and neglected to get back to you. I apologize for that. It ended up with Murray because we weren't able to reproduce the problem you were having and he wrote Segments. Using the ANT key with Segments has been very reliable for me. Murray remembered having an issue once, but hasn't been able to reproduce it. I'll ask Murray to review it again and get back to you ASAP. Sorry for the delay. If you ever don't hear back from us, following up directly to support does work almost as well.

thanks,

Chip

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Could someone let me know why/how the Kickr is cheaper on the Apple Store than on the Wahoo website for Europe.

I tried to make an order on the website and it was not successful due to an issue with the internet payment via Ogone. Decided to have a look here to see if someone had a similar problem. I saw by chance that someone ordered it via the Apple Store and therefore I checked. Surprise: it would save me 130€... which is always nice.

I hope that the unit I get will work properly because it looks like a lot of guys on the web aren't fully happy about it (Wattage, apps,... but I also think it's only a few percentage of owners who decide to react about it while the majority is happy). But I must admit that I'm a bit reluctant while willing to purchase... so fingers crossed !

Anyway Ray, thanks for the good review and from now on, I'll buy things on amazon through your website for sure ;o)

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Very quick question. The trainer is controlled via the iphone - is that using wi fi, 3 G or either of the two? Want to check if I have to be connected to broadband to do this? Does anyone experience drop outs when doing this. Just read that its only the iphone 4s and later models to control the wattage - is this correct?
cheers

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An internet or wifi connection is not necessary for using the KICKR. It can be controlled using either ANT+ or Bluetooth 4.0. The iPhone 4s and newer all have built in Bluetooth 4.0 so they are my preferred devices for controlling the KICKR. However, with the addition of the Wahoo Key, you can use ANT+ to control the KICKR from your older iPhone or iPad but will still require a Bluetooth 4.0 device to update the firmware. You can also use a Mac or PC with ANT+ USB stick to control the KICKR. Check with the various software developers for which computers are compatible (Trainerroad, PerfPro Studio, PeriPedal, etc).

Cheers,
Brad

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Hi, I 'm just looking for a new trainer , the wahoo KICKR would be perfect. The only thing that keeps me from buying one is the compatibility with Android. I have a Nexus 7 with Android 4.3 and really just Android devices. You are about to develop an Android interface . When this is done , I can then use the KICKR as with Apple, or do I have to cut back ?

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That is correct, we are close to releasing a beta for Android 4.3 devices with Bluetooth 4.0, which includes the latest Nexus 7 (the older models don't have BT 4.0). The app will allow full control over the KICKR, just like the Wahoo Fitness app for the iPhone.

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Hi Ray,
Love the post and my kickr just arrived! I'm having a problem finding the kickr via GOlden Cheetah. I have the latest version (June 2013, 3.0). WHen I go to "add device wizard" the kicker isn't there. Am I missing something, or do you have any insights? The other 3 options are there (Robot is also missing)

THanks in advance

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That setup will work great with the Wahoo Fitness app. The only thing to note is than you will need a device with Bluetooth 4.0 to update the firmware. The process takes about 2-3 minutes and the app for updating is free!

Best regards,
Brad

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In talking with Clever Training tonight they removed the listing due to lack of fulfillment of an outstanding order for KICKR’s from Wahoo Fitness. Clever Training decided to pull future KICKR sales until Wahoo would commit to fulfilling the previously placed order, in order to ensure nobody got in a spot where they couldn't fulfill the product. Hopefully this will get sorted out in the coming days. Sorry for the trouble – and I greatly appreciate you supporting the site.

Thanks!

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After studying the various comments I discover that in order to calibrate, update the firmware and to control the KICKR Bluetooth 4.0 iOS (greater than 4s and iPad 3) is a MUST. Since I have neither one and have just bought a KICKR I am VERY disappointed that I need to buy a phone now to make proper use of the KICKR. It should be clearly stated that BT 4.0 is needed to use the KICKR.

My KICKR came uncalibrated and locks up after 3-5 pedal rotations in order to do a spin down/calibration I need a iOS BT 4.0 device now!!! I hope there is.workaround ?

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I'm now seriously thinking of buying a Kickr.
I'm based in the UK - has anyone bought one from the Apple UK store yet.
Also I have an iphone 3G - will I need to buy a new iphone to control the Kickr or can I do it via laptop and ANT usb stick?
Cheers

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You should receive an e-mail (if you haven't yet already) this morning from Clever Training that your order will be fulfilled in the coming days. Yesterday Wahoo agreed to ship out the previously ordered KICKR's. Thanks for the support!

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DC, Thanks for the follow-up. Received the email from Clever this morning with shipping info for next week. Now, if my IPad shows up at the same time, I'm all set. Great info on the site - love the reviews.

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I just got a KICKR and am enjoying it. Something I am missing (or maybe don't see in the existing information) is a way to have the KICKR change resistance based on heart rate. It's got a great setting for doing that with ergs/watts, but I'm more of a novice biker and right now I'm focusing on building my ergs while maintaining in a heart rate zone. It'd be great if the KICKR had that option. Maybe I missed how to achieve that and if so a heads up would be great. Also, the blog descriptions of setup really helped. Thanks!

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I just got my Kickr this week. I'm using an iPod Touch with ANT dongle and Wahoo Fitness app and have successfully paired up power, speed, cadence and heart rate. However, When I click on the wheel icon in workout to do a spindown calibration, there is no CALIBRATE KICKR button so I cannot calibrate. I have no Bluetooth 4 device. Help!

Steve

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If the gear isn't showing up, it likely means that the firmware on your KICKR isn't the latest version. To update the firmware, you'll need to get hold of an iOS device that has BT40 on it. You can download the Wahoo Utility App and it will walk you through the process, it just takes a couple of minutes. We're working on adding the ability to update the firmware via BT on Android, but updating with ANT is something that we have not tackled.

thanks,

Chip

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DC and Crew, Thanks all for all the information above. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Computrainer and then stumbled across your blog and your spot-on reviews. I am now weighing the options.

One of the features on the Computrainer I liked but did not see mentioned above was the ability to look at left/right power and to be able to see a power curve throughout the pedal stroke. I believe Computrainer calls this "SpinScan." Is there anything that can give that kind of visual information with any of the Kickr software? I did read all of the comments and didn't see this question asked, although it was touched on in post #288 above.

Merci beaucoup

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No, this doesn't exist on KICKR. And honestly, it's really not as valuable as marketing might make it out to be. There's a lot of talk lately with the introduction of left/right power meters and how much you really want to try and fix either left/right, or balance within the stroke (on a given side) - or, rather, just focus on getting stronger rather than chasing a number. In some cases folks are finding that by chasing something like pedal balance, they actually end up lowering overall wattage.

Good luck!

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Wow DC, you are quick with the response! I am a Sufferlandrian, so it is good that the device is built strong so you can obtain optimal suffering. If the device doesn't work, I'll just put it in my jersey pocket for interval training.

I followed the above link to Clever Training but get the OOPS screen. Any idea when they will be available and is the coupon code above still valid? Sufferlandria is a poor nation, discounts are always appreciated.

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The bearings are mechanically pressed, this makes them not very user serviceable. The nature of the bearing design makes them essentially "lifetime" bearings. They should never need replacing. If an issue arises, the big pulley can be replaced as a unit. We did have a few units with bad bearings in the first batch of KICKR's. Because they were damaged during installation they failed within a few minutes of riding and became unusable quickly. Give us a shout at support if you think you've got an issue.

thanks,

Chip

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From reading the comments section, am I correct in understanding that if you don't have a rear cassette that matches the 10 speed cassette on the KICKR, that you have to replace the cassette on the KICKR with the one on your bike or one that matches it? I have a 9 speed on my road bike and wouldn't want to have to remove the cassette every time I wanted to ride the trainer.

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Thanks Wahoo Murray. Before asking, I had looked for a FAQ on your Wahoo KICKR webpage. Even going to the Support link I wasn't able to find a way to the page you just linked to. You might want to consider adding that link or a link to some sort of FAQ to the KICKR main page.

I should also thank DC Rainmaker for such a great review and recap of the different support software. I hope that someone, either DC Rainmaker, or Wahoo will maintain a page linking to all the future apps that get created for the KICKR. The potential for better and better apps coming out for the KICKR because of the open source nature of the platform is one of things that has me most excited about it.

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Doh! Just checked again and I see that on the link you provided you have a section titled "What software and apps are available for the KICKR? " so it looks like you are already maintaining a list of compatible software. Great!

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I now have my IPad 2 connected via the Wahoo Ant+ dongle. I can see theKICKR. But using Fitness App it does not react to changes from ERG to SIM etc. it feels like it cannot receive control from the App. After a view rotations resistance gets higher like if were on the default level 2 setting. What could be the problem ? Firmware ?

Thanks Dana

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This is really an annoyance as I now need an IPhone to make the KICKR work at all. I need a workaround as I am not going to buy a new IPhone. People just don't lend you their latest IPhone to download apps and do whatever ...

Thanks Dana

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Really sorry about the need to borrow an iDevice to get the firmware updated. We're working hard on similar capability with Android, but it isn't quite ready and it will initially be limited to a small subset of newer Android phones that have Bluetooth 4.0 and the latest Android v4.3 running on them.

Best regards,
Brad

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The beta app does not have this ability. The firmware update will actually be done through a separate app called Wahoo Utility. Wahoo Utility, similar to the iOS version, will be an app that assesses basic sensor functionality pushes over-the-air firmware updates.

Best regards,
Brad

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Finally Cycleops has announced that subscriptions to their virtual training software are launching October 7th.

Taking the rear wheel off is a little annoying because of the rear derailleur fine tuning required when switching.

So, although I will be able to more accurately give an opinion in the springtime, right now it is thumbs up. Get one.

On Clever training, they were great, their shipping department did not know that UPS charges huge brokerage fees to collect sales tax at the Canadian border. Once they were told, they refunded me in the amount of the brokerage UPS charged me. Excellent customer service isn't having no problems at all, it IS dealing with inevitable problems in an exceptional way. Clever training was exceptional.

Rick

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Wahoo Fitness does not authorize discounts for the sale of any of its
products, and is no longer available on Clever Training. Wahoo
Fitness firmly believes that our products should be offered to all
customers at the same price. This gives the independent bike dealers
and local fitness shops the assurance that they can compete fairly
with large retailers and online sellers. And it gives retail
customer the assurance that they will receive level pricing as well as
product support from their local dealer.

You can buy a KICKR at your local independent bike dealer or order it from wahoofitness.com. WahooFitness.com has worldwide distribution and ships KICKRs to over 50 countries in Europe, Australia, and North/South America, many with with free shipping.

We believe in supporting a great site like this - it is awesome. We hope we can work with Clever Training in the future to continue to support this site.

thanks,

Chip

Edit from Ray as of Oct 29th 2013: Wahoo Fitness and Clever Training have reached an agreement restoring the old terms and conditions. You can now both support the site and have your cake (KICKR) too. The usual links are at the bottom of the review. Thanks for the support!

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I wanted to quickly catch folks up on a bit of a change going forward. As noted above, unfortunately Clever Training will no longer be carrying the Wahoo KICKR, or any other Wahoo Fitness products. This is due to an impasse with Wahoo Fitness regarding the DCR subscribers 10% coupon code that Clever Training offers to DCR subscribers (the 10% discount to you comes out of Clever Training's profits, not Wahoo’s). Wahoo Fitness does not want to continue to permit Clever Training the offer for DCR readers and as such Clever Training will no longer carry Wahoo Fitness products.

As you all know I run this blog on reader support and appreciate all of you who purchase your products from my partners Amazon.com and Clever Training. Please note that Wahoo Fitness is the only organization that imposes such restrictions and thus hopefully Wahoo Fitness can reach an agreement in the future that enables KICKR's and other products to once again be purchased through Clever Training.

Thanks for the support of the site, I appreciate it.
-Ray

Edit as of Oct 29th 2013: Wahoo Fitness and Clever Training have reached an agreement restoring the old terms and conditions. You can now both support the site and have your cake (KICKR) too. The usual links are at the bottom of the review. Thanks for the support!

It was a tough choice for me between the kickr and the cycleops trainer. I picked the kickr based on how it felt when I tried it in person, as well as the perception of openness that wahoo used to have. This practice of minimum price fixing is not particularly legal in Canada. I also wonder what the dealer cost is to apple vs. the local bike shop they claim to be protecting. They have effectively shafted the guy that I would say put them on the map for credibility by refusing to supply clever training. I have a bad taste in my mouth about wahoo right now.

With this current price fixing strategy, it is much harder for me to forgive their growing pains regarding support when they rely on others for effective training software and only support hardware and firmware. (Other than the very basic wahoo software they have)

Even though I have paranoid suspicions that apple may be behind this, it is still ultimately wahoos choice.

I would respectfully suggest to other potential customers that they keep this unethical practice in mind when they decide upon which trainer to spend their hard earned cash.

Regards

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I've been somewhat critical here of Wahoo at times, and believe in giving credit where credit is due. They've addressed every issue I've put in front of them, and seem to be making a solid effort on the service side.

As it comes to the "no discounting" policy, I think was need to put this in perspective. This is very, very common in the industry. Oakley, Cervelo, Garmin, CycleOps, Zipp and many other manufacturers do not allow coupons / discounts on their products (just see the bottom of any TriSports coupon email). This is hardly 'unethical', and simply represents a company's philosophy about the pricing to their end customer.

I would not recommend considering that as a factor in deciding on the KICKR. It's a great product.

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So they expect effectively free advertising and product support through this site but don't want to give anything back? They certainly have the right to do this but it definitely isn't going to create good will with the site that has given them probably more support than any other. Yea, it leaves a bad taste. This isn't the way to grow a company.

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Just as a heads up, I'm happy to report that effective about an hour ago, Clever Training and Wahoo Fitness came to an agreement and the KICKR (and all other Wahoo Fitness items) are once again available for purchase through Clever Training. This not only supports the site, but you get all the benefits that comes with the Clever Training/DCR deal as well.

The applicable links/etc are hanging out at the bottom of this post in the usual place.

Thanks for the support!

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First of all, all of us from Wahoo want to apologize to Ray's readers about the Clever Training communication. The KICKR is not available on Clever Training at this time. We apologize for any confusion around this matter and Wahoo is 100% responsible the communication surrounding Ray's post above.

Second, Wahoo *really* wants to support this great site by providing's Ray's readers the opportunity to purchase from Clever Training. We have an open offer to Clever to purchase from us. Unfortunately, Clever will not sell Wahoo's products unless they can discount and sell under the established retail price of $1099.

Given our need as a small company to build a network of independent bike dealers and local fitness shops, we need to maintain price stability in the market. We believe that Wahoo products should be offered to all customers at the same price. This gives the independent bike dealers and local fitness shops the assurance that they can compete fairly with large retailers and online sellers. And it gives retail customer the assurance that they will receive level pricing as well as product support from their local dealer.

Wahoo is made up of 30 honest and hardworking people that are passionate about the products we make and the people who use them. We just celebrated our 4th anniversary as a company. We are just like you - tech and gear junkies - and we would read Ray's blog regardless of making Wahoo products.

Our goal in life is to make more cool products for you to workout with. We need to grow to be a sustainable business in the long term and bring new products to market. Building an effective retail distribution network - both online and offline - is critical to the growth of Wahoo and achieving the ultimate goal of developing great new products.

Again, we believe in supporting a great site like this – it is awesome. We hope we can work with Clever Training in the future to continue to support this site

Thanks,
The Wahoo Team

Note: You can buy a KICKR at your local independent bike dealer or order it from wahoofitness.com. WahooFitness.com has worldwide distribution and ships KICKRs to over 50 countries in Europe, Australia, and North/South America, many with with free shipping.

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I have to say I absolutely love the Wahoo Kickr. Go it working with Trainerroad which could not have been simpler and the workouts are amazing - there's no room or time for slacking and you really get 100% out of the workouts. As someone who has been a great advocate for indoor training for almost 30 years this is by far and away the best platform I have found. Really looking forward to next season even though winter is still a few months away here in Canada.

For anyone who is in two minds whether to go with this product, it really is a simple decision - do you want to get the very most out of your workouts or not?

Alan

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I've been debating with myself over ordering a Kickr for a while now. The price is high in the UK and sets it on a par with the Powerbeam pro plus Joule GPS. Like John Smith above, says, I was attracted as much by their philosophy of openness as by the product itself. Whilst a lot of companies do engage in establishing minimum prices and only selling through authorised dealers, it does reduce price competition. Whether it is legally anti-competitive or not is another matter, but I do know that Colnago have been challenged over this practice in Europe with reference to the Competition Act, and have effectively turned a blind eye to their frames/bikes being sold below their "minimum price." Certainly it feels that a company I was previously attracted to through a perceived desire to shake up the market, is now operating in a similar manner to many of the bigger players.
Makes it a lot easier for me to decide on a purchase - now I will buy/or not buy solely on the product being offered and the price set, rather than buying into any particular business image/philosophy.

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Anybody out there using the KICKR together with an Edge 810, ANT+ USB stick and PerfPro Studio? Having this setup I'm continuously receiving a "Power Sensor Error xxxx" on my 810 display. When switching over to my good old Edge 500 I don't have such an error.

Thanks,
Christian.

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I had the same issue when I upgraded the Edge 810 firmware from 2.6 to 2.8. I downgraded to firmware 2.6 and I had no issue anymore. I can use my KICKR with TrainerRoad or veloreality on a Windows 7 & ant + system. I haven't tried the firmware 2.7 but maybe the vector feature added in recent firmware could be the origin of the issue

Olivier

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I just got my Kickr in and am trying to figure out the most efficient way to gather the data. I have a Suunto Ambit 2 and a Garmin ANT+ HR strap. If I want to get HR data into the Wahoo app, will I have to get an ANT+ adapter for my iphone? Or is there some way to route in the HR data via the Kickr? Also, should my Ambit be able to get the speed data from the Kickr? In my first test it seemed like it did not. So right now I have figured out how to have either HR data (using Ambit) or speed (using Wahoo) but not both.

Thoughts/suggestions?

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I don't have a Suunto Ambit, but checked Ray's handy review and it says that the Ambit does not currently support the power profile. The KICKR transmits Power and speed using the power profile, so you won't be able to pick them up on the Ambit. We don't currently read ANT HR with the KICKR, so you'll need either an ANT dongle or a BT HRM to get HR into our App.

thanks,

Chip

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Just as one minor update - if you have the Ambit 2/2s, in that case it does support power from the KICKR via ANT+. It's the Ambit 1 (aka just 'Ambit') that doesn't support ANT+ power.

In other words, with your Ambit 2, you'll be able to get power data and speed data from the KICKR.

And yes, if you want to get HR data, as Chip noted you'll need the adapter or a Bluetooth Smart strap (which won't work with your Ambit, as it's only ANT+). Though, you could pickup the 4iiii's Viiiiva strap - which broadcasts both concurrently. :)

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Hi guys, thanks for the responses. I do, in fact, have the Ambit 2, not the original Ambit; so my watch does support the power profile. I will give it another try to see if it picks up the speed properly from the KICKR (my first test ride was brief and hurried). As long as I can get that to work then I wouldn't see any need to go out and buy another strap or an ANT dongle. Will report back.

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I am having Trainerroad and Kickr connectivity issues (old Mac laptop, so Ant+).

I originally had a Garmin USB1 stick and was advised to upgrade to a Suunto Movestick Mini USB2 stick due to TR/Kickr issues with USB1.

I used the Suunto USB stick yesterday and it worked somewhat seamlessly with TR (during the middle of the workout it stopped controlling load once, but a refresh of device connections mid ride fixed this). It then worked perfectly (erg mode) for the balance of the workout.

However when I came to use TR and Kickr this morning (exact same set-up), TR is advising 'Kickr set load failed'. The erg mode is not engaging and the Kickr power is not matching the TR workouts.

I have the latest TR software and I believe my Kickr firmware is up to date. I cannot get TR to now control load in erg mode.

Anyone experienced this? What's the solution?

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Hi Guys,
First off, thanks Ray for all your work. Best reviewer on the web without doubt.
Secondly, having soaked up all the reviews and comments on the kickr I still have the option of using Stages with an old Tacx Grand Excel I currently train on. As I don’t have a bike based power meter yet I just wonder whether the flexibility, ride quality and development potential of the Kickr is worth an extra £350 and no power outside?
Would much appreciate all and any opinions.
Cheers,
Martyn

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In general I usually recommend a power meter over any resistance-controlled trainer - all other things being equal. No doubt the KICKR can assist greatly in improving performance, but ultimately I think having power for racing and outdoor training is more important - since ultimately (especially if you're a long-course triathlete), being able to pace by power is a huge advantage.

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Having troubles with signal dropping from the Kickr while using the Wahoo Fitness app on Ipad 4.

Anybody experiences similar issues and have some advice on what to do?

For example during recent ride the signal dropped on and off after about 15 minutes riding, and then disappeared completely.

Checked that firmware is updated and also calibrated the Kicker using the Wahoo app. Works fine with the Garmin Ant+ stick to the laptop, so only experiencing this while connected on Bluetooth.
Many thanks in advance.
Alf

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You might reach out to the support.wahoofitness.com team to dig deep into what might be going on. The BT link to iPhone/iPads is usually rock solid. If you really tax the radio on the iPad it can be problematic, like streaming a Netflix movie into the Ipad on Wifi and using Airplay to send it to a TV while using BT to control the KICKR. The only other thing that I've seen is cheap BT headphones can cause pretty nasty interference sometimes. Hope that helps. The support guys may have other clues.

thanks,

Chip

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A) which app is used best for doing the spindown calibration ?
B) I am using segments - but during a 16 min ride the grade drops consistently to 0% every 30-40 seconds or so. after that it has the the normale grade. The segemt I am riding against does not have the drop outs ? What could be the problem ?
C) I am using the KICKR with an SRAM X-O 9 speed derailleur. What is the best gear in order to avoid chain skipping ? Or should I get a 9 speed cassette .? If so which one ?
D) what is the difference btw segments and the strava app ?
E) how do I know which firmware I have and how can I find out when there are new firmware updates so I need to use the loaner 4S from my friend again..

Thanks Dana

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A) Wahoo Utility is the easiest for just completing a spindown calibration (via the bluetooth connection), but if you're using ANT+, you can simply use the Wahoo Fitness app. Pair to the KICKR just like you normally would and start a workout. In the upper right hand corner you should see a settings button that will drop down a menu with the spindown calibration button.

B) I'm not certain about this. Perhaps Wahoo Murray can chime in with some possible recommendations?

C) A 9-speed cassette is definitely the best option. The 9-speed chain will not work well on the 10-speed cassette and you won't have the ability to shift! A cheap 9-speed cassette is all you need.

D) The Strava app is for uploading workout data (typically outdoor rides) and analyzing and comparing your performance on various "segments" that were included in your ride. The Segments app allows you to repeat those same "segments" indoors on your KICKR. You can race against your best time or against the KOM (king of the mountain) for each individual segment.

E) We will make a post on our facebook page and also the Wahoo Fitness blog. If you connect with a Bluetooth 4.0 device, both the Wahoo Fitness and Wahoo Utility apps will automatically check for any available updates and alert you if your KICKR is out of date. We will also likely post in the comments section of this blog.

Regards,
Brad

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Thanks to the rain in the midwest over the past week, I've had a good chance to get to know the trainer. I'm not certain, but I think I've run into a app issue running iOS7. I opened kinomaps, the segments app and the wahoo app on my ipad. I maybe had the iphone wahoo app running too. When I started riding, the power numbers felt way off. Like off in sweating like a pig to put out <100 watts. The resistance seemed to cycle up and down but it was never easy. After about 5 minutes, I had the idea to force close the apps that were running. After this, the power curve felt right and all was well. I'll see if this issue is repeatable, but I suspect that it will be.

As for the discount issue, life goes on. I would have bought from Clever without the discount. I would encourage them to keep the product and skip the discount. If they wanted to throw in a nominal gift instead of a discount, that would be a nice, but perhaps unnecessary, touch.

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Since the Wahoo Fitness (and likely the others as well) is designed to run in the background, it does not "release" the connection to the KICKR. So it is likely that the apps are all competing for the same KICKR. The best way to avoid this, which you already discovered, is to just shut down the apps you are not using at that moment.

Best regards,
Brad

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Great review. Many thanks. Interested in answer to Jared's question as well. I have just got a Kickr and but havent yet got a speed/ cadence sensor. On the road I use my Suunto Ambit 1 for HR, speed etc. Should I get an ANT+ speed/cadence so I can use it outside as well? Also, I have the Suunto HR strap. Do I need a new one if HR info is going to feed into any devices or apps used with the Kickr?

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Depending on the head unit you have, you can use either a Bluetooth 4.0 or ANT+ speed/cadence sensors outside. If you're using a Garmin then an ANT+ sensor will work but you will need an ANT+ Key to pick it up on your iDevice (and possibly a lightning-to-30-pin adapter if you have a iPhone 5 or newer). If you're planning on using your iPhone as a display outside, then a Bluetooth 4.0 Speed/Cadence sensor would be ideal (for iPhone 4s or newer).

If you have any questions about compatibility, our support team is the best! Let them know what sensors you are looking for and what devices you want it to be compatible with and they can get you straightened out!

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Sorry that you are disappointed, the quality of elevation is one of the main reason the app was delayed nearly 12 months. GPS and even online lookup databases have VERY poor elevation data.

Strava has corrected many of popular Segments using data from Altimeters (Garmin 800′s) and these segments are very good. Popular climbs over mile are really good and Strava is continuing to scan and update the elevation data. Strava now has the best elevation database on the internet.

We also use 2 different types of filters on the elevation data, but unfortunately, like many before us have found these algorithms not always to be perfect and mostly work well in mountain environments.

We are continuing to work on improving the data and future version should give some greater control over the filter parameters so they can be manually tweaked for different use cases.

Thanks

Murray"

Hi Murray,

I ride long mountains all the time. The segments are nothing like the real thing. The problem with GPS data from Garmins and the like is that they are always correcting themselves and so a steady 5% gradient in the Maurienne Valley becomes a series of 8% ramps between flats. Unfortunately in Segments these seem to happen every few seconds requiring huge power variations - nothing like one needs when riding the real deal.

I've tried a number now, longer 10km climbs as well as short ones like Box Hill over here. Box Hill does not start out at 10% then go flat. If anything the KICKR seems to be too good at responding. Can I make a suggestion? A simple smoothing of the climbs to making gradient changes every 500m - or limited to 1% every 2 seconds would cure the problem and I wonder if this could be built into the Segments app and applied after the data has been downloaded from Strava.

This would make these long climbs more closely resemble the real thing in terms of ride feel. As it stands, most segments are fairly useless for training or for pleasure and I would caution buyers against getting a KICKR because Segments will form a large part of their training time.

On the plus side, the KICKR itself seems to be an excellent trainer and the feel is far more lifelike than the Tacx I have replaced. I just miss the accuracy of the Tacx RLV's at the moment but hopefully you can think of a global fix for the Segments issues. I have to report that what you are saying in the quoted reply is certainly not my experience to date.

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I experience the switch btw what seem to be correct gradients and 0%s in Segments. Is there any way to select/filter for good rides ? Ie. the ones that use barometric elevation data or have been corrected ? Or is there a list of the ones that work :) ? It's very relaxing to get a break every 20 sec. but realistic and negates the whole virtual training purpose...

Thanks

Dana

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THANK YOU DC for your incredible reviews. In awe of the depth and detail.

Quick question. Are you able to execute Critical Power testing (CP20) on the KICKR like one can using the CompuTrainer 3D Software? Assuming you can by uploading a Strava based course that is flat (0% grade) and throw down for 20 min and extrapolate from this ride, but needed to ask.

I am poised to get a KICKR if that is a possibility.

Thanks for your feedback as I am determined to create a fool proof system for my athletes when I test them. My CompuTrainer has failed me one too many times.

Sincerely,
Coach L

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Question on ease or flexibility for two. My wife and I both take turns on a trainer. This includes swapping bikes pretty much every other day during the winter months on our old Cyclops. Want to upgrade this year to something nicer, more realistic and cooler.

- With Wahoo - when we swap bikes, is there a lot of recalibration that needs to occur? Is there any major 'hassle' that we should know about in doing this?

- Does the trainer have the ability to sync to 2 different I phone or devices easily - so that we can differentiate between one another?

- Any other concerns we should be wary of when buying for this type of application?

Thanks.

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- The beauty of the wheel-off design means that the calibration holds true regardless of the bike you put on the KICKR. It's not affected by tire pressure or roller tightness. Just throw the other bike on and ride!

- Yes! You can easily pair with two different phones, just be sure to shut down the app on one phone before opening the app on the other. The Bluetooth connection only allows for one phone at a time, but unless you're using the KICKR with a tandem bike, that shouldn't be an issue! If you are trying to sync two device at the same time, you can use the Wahoo ANT+ Key. Unlinke Bluetooth 4.0, ANT+ allows multiple devices to connect to the same sensor at once.

- Something to look out for is the drivetrain compatibility. Be sure that both of your bikes have the same number of gears on the cassette. It is relatively easy to swap out the cassette on the KICKR to match your bike, but would be a bit of a pain if this had to be done every time you were making the switch.

Best regards,
Brad

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DC,
Do you know of any apps in the pipe that will allow us to ride any GPX file.
eg: grab the file of any ride you or anyone has ever ridden from my Garmin etc then upload it into an app to create the ride with the elevation data then just go ride it onthe KICKR.
A bit like the Segments app but for full rides rather than just the odd mile or 2 blast?

Cheers
Kevin

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Yes, you can use the CycleOps Virtual Training suite to do that. It's a bit clunky right now, but they've told me they're working to close that gap. Right now you'll need to use the desktop suite to upload the files, and then pull it down from the iPad app (or, the desktop suite). You can use the trial version of the desktop app, so you don't have to pay to do that function.

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I have a few issues going with the Wahoo/Trainer Road right now and not quite sure why. Randomly during a workout with TR the wattage will go to zero, the resistance will still be there, but overall still a bit irritating. This typically last anywhere from a few seconds up to 15 or so. My connection between my MacBook Pro and Wahoo is excellent/good during these instances. Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Alan

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1. Cassette.
I read somewhere that the cassette delivered with the KICKR is 11-25, 10-speed.
The two bikes I have which I could use with the KICKR also have 10-speed, but one has a 11-28 Cassette and the other 12-32 cassette, obviously both with the appropriate chain length. Any problems to expect when I am going to use one of these bikes on the 11-25 cassette, e.g. with chain length? I don't want to change the cassette each time or change the chain when I use the KICKR.

2. Mac/OSX
There are a number of IOS applications which support the KICKR but I haven't seen a WAHOO iMac/OSX application yet for controlling the KICKR - e.g. for firmware updates. Is there one already available; if not when is it expected?

Thank you, kind regards
Dirk

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1) You shouldn't have any issues at all. The only time you'd need to watch out for chain length issues would be if you're bike has a cassette smaller than the KICKR's (an 11-23 for example). There's a slight possibility that your chain is a hair too long from the bike with the 12-32 but I doubt that will be the case. Even if the chain is too long, it will only be on the 11 tooth gear in your small ring up front and isn't really worth worrying about.

2) TrainerRoad runs on a Mac or PC and you can also run some other PC software, like PerfPro Studio and PeriPedal, by running Parallels. However, at this point the only way to update the firmware on the KICKR is via an iOS device with Bluetooth 4.0. The capabilities for frimware updates via OSX are only available on the very latest machines and we have found that the connection is not as stable as it is on compatible iOS devices. We are working on Android support for the KICKR which will eventually include the ability to update the firmware.

Best regards,
Brad

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Hi Kristof,
I am not DC, but would like to ask you a question as I am in the decision process of buying a new trainer - apart from the KICKR, the Bushido with TTS 4.0 is on my shortlist.
My question is: what are you missing in your current Bushido trainer or what problems are you facing which is making you think of replacing it with the KICKR?
Thank you, rgds
Dirk

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Hi,
Further on the KICKR vs TACX Bushido - I have been looking into the software available for the trainers.
As a recreational cyclist I find virtual reality video/cycling important - I'd like to climb mountains as realistic as possible; I am living in NL, which is as flat as a pancake, except for some bridges and some irregularities in the pancake which some people designate as hills. Realistic climbing for me is an important selection criteria.

TACX - Based on what I've read on this and other forums, its fair to conclude that TTS3 is quite buggy, but I am under the impression that TTS4 has improved compared to its previous version if it come