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years ago my Dad got swamp land off of hiway Alligator alley in FL..it was sold recently for a little over 2 million and he paid 39 dollars for it. If anyone else wants to sell me swamp land let me know lol

And this is why no one person (or small group of people) without oversight and accountability should take it upon him or her self to mete out any brand of solitary justice, whether it be fucked up not.

As Nancy Blowsi said, "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". So why is this a surprise?

I'm not surprised by that, more surprised that he feels the private sector is doing fine economically. Obama believes that the public sector is suffering right now which translates to him advocating more public workers which translates to more spending which translates to more debt and/or higher taxes in a recession.

Obama has fundraising events that cost per plate more than what alot of his supporters make a year (35,000+ per plate) and thinks the private sector is doing fine but it is Romney who is out of touch.

This country is in the shit because of a truly evil man as president. President Obama secretly supplies Mexican criminals with assault weapons so they could commit crimes. Think of that concept! Then President Obama could point to the "evidence" and use it as an excuse to ban assault weapons. Well a border agent was killed. KILLED! By the machinations of a president that was supposed to protect him!
He has repeatedly sent Holder to lie when being investigated for this. When Holder doesn't fork over supeonaed documents, President Obama declares executive privilege, which Senator Obama declared corrupt when Bush used it. Executive privilege on documents President Obama claims he has not seen! I have two Master's degrees in history and I feel certain that his will bring President Obama down. On Friday Holder declared under oath to a Senate committee that the Fast and Furious operation was started by George Bush. Just a half hour ago Holder had to "clarify" that statement by saying the Fast and Furious program did not start with Bush, but with Obama. He had bold faced lied to a senate committee under oath and he is the ATTORNEY GENERAL.

Obama will be ousted before the American voters can do it.

"Everybody is born, and everybody dies. Being born wasn't so bad , was it?"
Peter the Hermit

Reagan did the same shit. We discussed that to death in the old thread so I'm not gonna bother dredging all that up again. If anybody feels the need to keep having that same circular argument, you can. If you really want to. But follow the rules. And know upfront that circular arguments have done nothing more than cause grudges between members and cause more than a few to break the rules. Then they wanna argue about that. And frustrations build. Then the forum is not put into it's proper perspective.

So much better to not go there. This place was created for fun. Let's keep it that way.

Only months before the election, Obama's action takes on more weight. Of course a few months is an eternity (cliche) and if the SCOTUS rules in favor of Obama regarding Obamacare, the F&F thing will fade away.

The House committee voted today to hold Holder in contempt...next comes the full House vote, but the timing of this play considering the SCOTUS Obamacare decision is close to being announced...it's curious. Reckon B.O. has the inside track on the court's decision, as in he's knows the court will uphold his health care takeover, which will wipe F&F off the map?

Reagan did the same shit. We discussed that to death in the old thread so I'm not gonna bother dredging all that up again. If anybody feels the need to keep having that same circular argument,

I don't see how it is circular. The white house denied knowing about fast and furious. The committee investigating that asked for documents that would show what Holder and the Justice department knew. Holder said he would provide them. He hasn't and just when the committee plans to take action, the administration protects themselves by not providing the documents with an executive order. Those are the facts as I am aware.

Why aren't you right wingers bitching about Romney hiding money away in Swiss and and Cayman bank accounts like some drug dealer? You Patriots are strangely silent on that issue.

Actually I commented on that. I spoke of the perfectly legitimate reason a businessman would do that and that there was absolutely no evidence of inpropriety. If I remember correctly no one commented on that either.

Operation "wide reciever" began with Bush. "Fast and Furious" began in 2009.

Actually I commented on that. I spoke of the perfectly legitimate reason a businessman would do that and that there was absolutely no evidence of inpropriety. If I remember correctly no one commented on that either.

Operation "wide reciever" began with Bush. "Fast and Furious" began in 2009.

The practice of Gun Walking, letting the criminals have the guns, began in 2006. The same people were making these command decisions from Wide receiver to Fast and Furious.

Your nonchalance shows the difference between me and you. Its ok for a right winger to hide money to evade the IRS. It may be legal, but don't wrap yourself in the flag and say how you are paying your fair share and you love your country. If Obama did this you would want him arrested for income tax evasion.

I disagee with Bidmor ,the one pivitol point in the law, that cops can ask for proof of legal status upon getting stopped for a traffic violation was upheld. The state run democrat media will spin this as a major blow to the law, but I see the suprime courts decision as a good move.

Get busted for speeding or a busted brake lamp or a DUI police are requied to check the legal status of their immergration. Its a good day for Arizona. Wtg Jan Brewer !

Yes, I'll walk back my "Round one to B.O." comment after reading the continuing CNN blog...mouth in motion before brain in gear. Indeed the upheld provision is the heart of SB1070, so for now it's primarily a win for states' rights.

B.O. didn't get the AZ biggie.

Thursday's the big day. I've read that's when the Court's opinion on Obamacare will be announced.

Yes, I'll walk back my "Round one to B.O." comment after reading the continuing CNN blog...mouth in motion before brain in gear. Indeed the upheld provision is the heart of SB1070, so for now it's primarily a win for states' rights.

B.O. didn't get the AZ biggie.

Thursday's the big day. I've read that's when the Court's opinion on Obamacare will be announced.

Yeah, I want to see what happens on that one too.

The other night I saw on the news that insurance companies are being required to refund by check, an average of $155.00 per family/subscriber due to some provision in ObamaCare. They weren't very clear why. And I'm kinda up to my eyeballs in reading lately. Do you happen to know the details why the insurance companies are refunding to people? I'm betting you do and can save me a bunch of searching for just the facts in an unbiased format.

The other night I saw on the news that insurance companies are being required to refund by check, an average of $155.00 per family/subscriber due to some provision in ObamaCare. They weren't very clear why. And I'm kinda up to my eyeballs in reading lately. Do you happen to know the details why the insurance companies are refunding to people? I'm betting you do and can save me a bunch of searching for just the facts in an unbiased format.

Your nonchalance shows the difference between me and you. Its ok for a right winger to hide money to evade the IRS. It may be legal, but don't wrap yourself in the flag and say how you are paying your fair share and you love your country. If Obama did this you would want him arrested for income tax evasion.

I've never read any evidense that that is what Romney is doing. If you can provide that, I will be happy to read it and comment accordingly. I hate tax evaders.

The other night I saw on the news that insurance companies are being required to refund by check, an average of $155.00 per family/subscriber due to some provision in ObamaCare. They weren't very clear why. And I'm kinda up to my eyeballs in reading lately. Do you happen to know the details why the insurance companies are refunding to people? I'm betting you do and can save me a bunch of searching for just the facts in an unbiased format.

The reason is that under Obamacare, insurance companies are required to spend 80% of premiums on claims. When the law first passed, the insurance companies had to try to estimate what the future claims were going to be and adjust their rates accordingly. As it turns out, the insurance companies over estimated their claims thus collecting more than the 20% they were allowed above claims.

Ex. Insurance company A charges 500.00 because it calculates that the claims against that premium will be 400.00. They pay the 400 and are allowed to keep 100 for everything else they do. Well if the claims were actually 300, then they have to refund the difference back to the policy holders.

They can ask for papers but they cant do anything about it. They cant arrest someone for not being a citizen. How is that a victory haha?

As of this afternoon, you are correct, as B.O.'s DHS has this afternoon stated they will no longer deputize local authorities to make immigration-based arrests...a program known as 287(g). So, in effect, B.O. stuck it to the states in light of the Court's upholding of that section.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...-court-ruling/

No shit , the ink wasn't even dry on the court order before homeland security said they can't enforce immergration laws. Obama must have made a call to janet incompatino over it. Police were supposed to ask for proof of citizenship status if the cop suspected the person was illegal, then call ICE and the feds wouuld take the case. In essence the feds said, Don't Call Us.

I'm disappointed in this move.

This tells the whole world to come on in.

What's the point in having a border ? A country without borders is a country without soventry.

My insurance company typically under-pays and I have no deductible except for a $300 annual prescription deductible. Great policy? You betcha. And that shit is expensive. $450 per month. It's also been worth it. Three MRI's, CAT scans, countless retinal exams, various surgeries and specialists as well as the standard tests/issues for a woman my age. Worth it.

Where I live now, only the upperclass seem to have insurance. In Silicon Valley, everybody I knew did. Most people work several jobs to be able to support themselves and few get 40 hours a week or benefits. One of my friends who lives down the street is almost 80 and cleans the laundrymat 7 nights a week. He's been doing it for years.

And there's a huge economic divide here that I didn't know about before. Bought this house almost 8 years ago but never lived in it until now.

There is a definite upper class and a definite lower class, income-wise. Guess who's considered middle-class here? Me. My personal income puts me smack dab in the middle.

On my street, one neighbor has 4 businesses all run out of the same building. Go up the street and you will walk right into drug central. I know everybody on all sides and have no problems with anyone.

This is a small town. A place where people get killed over drugs just a block away. A place where drug-related crime runs rampant and violent and/or drug trade criminals are set free because of limited jail space and very limited law enforcement funding thanks to the former dumbass of a sheriff. But guess what? I get along with everybody. Even the worst of the worst and the biggest badasses who are now doing hard time. Why? Because I'm here alone. And guess what else? Everybody, rich, poor, good and badass looks out for me. As I do for them. We've got eachother's backs like that.

This town also has a serious meth problem. No insurance and no rehab or services if you've got no insurance. And some of these people who need help, you can see they are good. Some are lying sacks of shit thieving bastards but not all. You can say the same about the rich too.

I am in the middle. No one knows how much I make, have or don't have. I turn people here on to as many freebie sites as they can handle. So many are drowning in debt or just day to day living expenses are a struggle. They will go to an emergency room over going in to see a doctor because it's actually less rxpensive for them to do so. The Walmart in the next town and it's $4 generic prescriptions do a thriving business here.

The solution around here is not to say, "get a job" because there aren't any. Higher than the national average unemployment rate too. Nor is it "move". These people can't afford that. The ones who can make money off the ones who can't and therefore have no incentive or intention of going anywhere either. The haves have the have-nots over a barrel here. It is hard to watch.

I am so thankful for what I have. But I know it could change too. Only a fool wouldn't realize that. I do what I can to help people but I also cannot spend all my time on it or my own shit becomes a disorganized mess of monumental proportions (kinda like this place when nobody uses the search and posts shitloads of duplicate threads or posts shit in the wring place repeatedly, while big clusterfuck fights rages in a couple of threads and the spammers have their way with the joint )

These people... I wish there was a way to get them together. To see the other as a person. Not as big money and no money, not as insurance out the wazoo and the NoInsurancesons, not the IGots and YouNots.

The only answer in this town is to patronize the hell out of small business or local companies. Even then there is no guarantee that enough hours will be given to good employees or that good employers will offer health insurance as an incentive to keep good people on.

It's an employer's wet dream around here right now when it comes to picking and choosing from candidates while offering no benefits. So even then this town's best choices for people to stay afloat are only as good as the people offering them.

There needs to be some insurance option in this state for those who don't make as much as I do. And I think this is true for the entire country. How to fund it though? That is the age old question.

And I swear to (insert deity of your choice here), don't you guys go back to kicking eachother in the nuts about National Health Care or how Pauli, Kate, Bid (for example only) is a whatever because you don't agree with their opinion, no matter how overtly or sneaking anyone thinks they are about it. If you do I will slap a card down on your ass so fast it will make your head spin. And I will keep doing it until you stop, as most people here know. Because what we want to do here is talk. Like grown-ups.
It's just a forum or whatever but we all can get along here. We can and do when we're not loaded up with agendas. We're a great bunch when we're just exchanging ideas. Anybody got any?

We're a great bunch when we're just exchanging ideas. Anybody got any?

The heart of the problem is that you are trying to insure a potential liability that is way out of proportion of the premium you can reasonably charge. On top of that, most people feel absolutely healthy until they are not. So the demand for insurance is only truly realized when it is needed. I'll have to give it some thought.

And the capper...B.O.'s Injustice Dept. and Eric Witholder set up a hotline yesterday for anyone in AZ to report potential civil rights "concerns" re the section of SB1070 which the Court upheld. Oh, anyone can inform the feds via email too.http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...tion-concerns/

The heart of the problem is that you are trying to insure a potential liability that is way out of proportion of the premium you can reasonably charge. On top of that, most people feel absolutely healthy until they are not. So the demand for insurance is only truly realized when it is needed. I'll have to give it some thought.

Well I belive we need to look to Canada and Europe where Health Care is provided for all. How do they fund it?
Taxes
And right now the media has made sure that the sheeple think taxes are evil

Where the hell do the roads come from? The Fire Departments? The Police?
Education.
TAXES

So all these eejits bellowing about how they do not want to pay taxes should effing move somewhere they dont have to pay taxes. Where your house will burn down, where you will be mugged/raped and your children will have no education.

As someone who's lived on both sides of the border, I'll guarantee the first thing you'll get thrown at you if you mention Canada is "You get sub quality care and you die on the waiting list".

This isn't necessarily true. Their are major flaws in the Canadian health care system, but I'm always shocked at the amount of pure propaganda that the US grinds out against the universal system. I had excellent care in Canada, from Sudbury to Kitimat, to Whitehorse to Calgary to the bustling metropolis of Melita, Manitoba. I had a two month wait for knee surgery. Once. That was the longest. The biggest issue was Doctor shortages. When I lived at home in the US, I remember my husband lost his job and thus his benefits when I was a stay at home mother with a child with juvenile diabetes. That was sheer terror.

I'm rambling, but my point is that there seems to be, on top of what Kate pointed out about taxes, a major mental block about the Canadian and European systems. It's like all the US will focus on is the flaws.

As someone who's lived on both sides of the border, I'll guarantee the first thing you'll get thrown at you if you mention Canada is "You get sub quality care and you die on the waiting list".

This isn't necessarily true. Their are major flaws in the Canadian health care system, but I'm always shocked at the amount of pure propaganda that the US grinds out against the universal system. I had excellent care in Canada, from Sudbury to Kitimat, to Whitehorse to Calgary to the bustling metropolis of Melita, Manitoba. I had a two month wait for knee surgery. Once. That was the longest. The biggest issue was Doctor shortages. When I lived at home in the US, I remember my husband lost his job and thus his benefits when I was a stay at home mother with a child with juvenile diabetes. That was sheer terror.

I'm rambling, but my point is that there seems to be, on top of what Kate pointed out about taxes, a major mental block about the Canadian and European systems. It's like all the US will focus on is the flaws.

Thank you for posting a true life account!
I also think that Americans have this ridiculous fear of being wrong about anything and we HAVE to be SUPERIOR to all other countries.
Hangover from winning WWII I guess, we still think we are better than ANYONE and it just aint so.

I have never heard anyone complain about paying taxes. I have heard them complain about paying MORE taxes when 50% of the nation pays none.

Well the bottom line is that we ALL have to pay taxes and we will all HAVE to pay more to maintain our quality of life.
I will not get into an argument over this as all you have to do is listen to the right wing talking heads say they want to lower taxes.
It won't work
It hasn't worked
It isn't working
We are circling the drain and being kept disctracted by the uber wealthy who control the media.
And it ain't a liberal media by a long stretch of the imagination.

The tax system needs a major overhaul, as does the mindset about taxes. As citizens it is our duty not only to contribute to making our country work, but hold those we elect accountable, and pay attention to where the funds go, and what we can do to improve how we use them.

The tax system needs a major overhaul, as does the mindset about taxes. As citizens it is our duty not only to contribute to making our country work, but hold those we elect accountable, and pay attention to where the funds go, and what we can do to improve how we use them.

It has to start with education. Until the populace takes some responsibility, we won't get anywhere.

When my oldest started working and he saw a tax deduction on his check, he complained. My husband then made it very clear where that money is used, where it should be used, and why. This is something, as stupid as it sounds, that needs to be done on a larger scale. The amount of working adults that think all they're doing is paying Obama's salary is ridiculous.

And the capper...B.O.'s Injustice Dept. and Eric Witholder set up a hotline yesterday for anyone in AZ to report potential civil rights "concerns" re the section of SB1070 which the Court upheld. Oh, anyone can inform the feds via email too.http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...tion-concerns/

So lets summarize:

Arizona passes a bill that would allow the state to enforce federal immigration law.

The Obama administration sues the state to block its implementation sending it to the supreme court

The supreme court knocks down most of the law but allows the controversial "stop and check" provision

Before the ink is dry the Obama administration then rescinds the 287(g) agreements which allowed local law enforcement to partner with the federal government in immigration enforcement.

And for an added touch, set up a hotline to report law enforcement and their potential enforcement of the law under the guise of protecting civil liberties.

So Arizona recieved a world class smack down for having the audacity to try and protect its own borders.

It has to start with education. Until the populace takes some responsibility, we won't get anywhere.

When my oldest started working and he saw a tax deduction on his check, he complained. My husband then made it very clear where that money is used, where it should be used, and why. This is something, as stupid as it sounds, that needs to be done on a larger scale. The amount of working adults that think all they're doing is paying Obama's salary is ridiculous.

Informed voters are the only thing that will bring about change.

Sadly the level of comprehension in this country is pretty poor.
The majority of people are ignorant and content to remain so.
That's why the Tea Party got as far as it did.
No reasoning, no reality checks, just blather that appeals to the lazy mindset.

I don't see people wising up anytime soon, they are too damn comfortable in their ignorance.