elwoodpdowd wrote:Why do people require themselves to complicate matters? This is so simple! An Employer wants an employee that will, like any other investment, turn a profit. An employee wants to earn a living. The employer and potential employee have a talk (interview) during which wages, benefits, and other compensations are discussed. If all is copacetic, the employer has an employee, and the applicant has a job. If there is not an agreement, the employer continues to look for an employee, and the applicant goes elsewhere in search of employment. The business owner has the gold, and thus makes the rules. That is the way it works. UP UNTIL NOW!!!!!! People do not have to work for the evil slavedriver anymore!!!!! They can leave the job and sally forth with their fully subsidized obamacare policy to explore their passions!!!! If their passions include providing birth control to one and all there is joy in Mudville!!! All is well!! Nothing but blue skies, and green lights!!!!!!! And there is nothing complicated about it!!!

And when, in this fictional interview, does the employer say...we have a great health plan that will pay for your husband's Viagra, but won't pay for your birth control pills. ?

marie123 wrote:Why doesn't Steve Green's religious beliefs stop him from doing business with China, where abortion is extremely common? Maybe he should have a purity test so no pro-personal reproduction people are permitted to shop there? Why would he want their dirty money?

He can't control what other people do. He only wants a say in what he does. He does not want To buy his employees birth control or abortions. Pretty simple. The government should not be involved.

Whether or not his insurance company provides contraceptives to his employees that want them has zero effect on his ability to praise Jesus and conduct his religious life however he pleases. Those who are impacted are the employees who may not share his fundamentalist beliefs. His objection is with his employees who may decide to behave in a manner he considers sinful. If they all shared his beliefs and none chose to use birth control there would be no issue.

There still is no issue. They can work somewhere else or pay for it themselves. He can't control what they do, he can only control what he will do.

"If you don't like the work environment, you can work somewhere else" sounds very familiar. Seems to me that was the big argument 40 years ago when it came to sexual harassment.

marie123 wrote:Why doesn't Steve Green's religious beliefs stop him from doing business with China, where abortion is extremely common? Maybe he should have a purity test so no pro-personal reproduction people are permitted to shop there? Why would he want their dirty money?

He can't control what other people do. He only wants a say in what he does. He does not want To buy his employees birth control or abortions. Pretty simple. The government should not be involved.

Whether or not his insurance company provides contraceptives to his employees that want them has zero effect on his ability to praise Jesus and conduct his religious life however he pleases. Those who are impacted are the employees who may not share his fundamentalist beliefs. His objection is with his employees who may decide to behave in a manner he considers sinful. If they all shared his beliefs and none chose to use birth control there would be no issue.

There still is no issue. They can work somewhere else or pay for it themselves. He can't control what they do, he can only control what he will do.

"If you don't like the work environment, you can work somewhere else" sounds very familiar. Seems to me that was the big argument 40 years ago when it came to sexual harassment.

Your disconnect is showing, if you think these two situations are equal.

That's not true. Studies have shown that populations with access to contraceptives have lower overall health costs. Insurers have agreed to provide them at no extra cost.

The conversation is about health insurance, not health care cost.

You seem to have missed the entire thread of the post. I advise you to take a reading comprehension class.

I advise you……..this article is about the religious freedom that Hobby Lobby thinks they have. This particular conversation was about health insurance. I advise you to learn to read and get better manners.

marie123 wrote:Why doesn't Steve Green's religious beliefs stop him from doing business with China, where abortion is extremely common? Maybe he should have a purity test so no pro-personal reproduction people are permitted to shop there? Why would he want their dirty money?

He can't control what other people do. He only wants a say in what he does. He does not want To buy his employees birth control or abortions. Pretty simple. The government should not be involved.

Whether or not his insurance company provides contraceptives to his employees that want them has zero effect on his ability to praise Jesus and conduct his religious life however he pleases. Those who are impacted are the employees who may not share his fundamentalist beliefs. His objection is with his employees who may decide to behave in a manner he considers sinful. If they all shared his beliefs and none chose to use birth control there would be no issue.

There still is no issue. They can work somewhere else or pay for it themselves. He can't control what they do, he can only control what he will do.

"If you don't like the work environment, you can work somewhere else" sounds very familiar. Seems to me that was the big argument 40 years ago when it came to sexual harassment.

Your disconnect is showing, if you think these two situations are equal.

Definition of an analogy:

Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

If you are incapable of seeing the similarity, you have zero imagination or are lying to make your point valid.

all American wrote:Can Obama and the Democrats force people of faith to go against their faith because they crammed Obama-care full of Progressive Freedom stealing garbage. Obama should be impeached since he changes the law illegally to meet his fancy but still they want to make Christians to pay for abortions. Are we truly free in America anymore when legislators and Dictators can force us to compromise our beliefs???

No one of faith is being asked to pay for anyone's anything. That's why we have insurance. If a woman wants to use the option, that is her business. Not her employers! These people do not operate a church or hospital or a non profit. They run an incorporated business. They profit from their business, quite a bit. The beliefs of the owners does not trickle down to the people they employ.

Her employer pays for her insurance, therefore her employer pays for it.

Do you not see the direct connection here?

If not, the substance of the discussion is beyond your grasp and you should avoid discussing it.

The question is why someone should be forced to violate their religious beliefs by being forced to do this in the first place. A direct part of the Christian religion flatly states - Col 3:23 (CEV) Do your work willingly, as though you were serving the Lord himself, and not just your earthly master, (BBE) Whatever you do, do it readily, as to the Lord and not to men, (ERV) In all the work you are given, do the best you can. Work as though you are working for the Lord, not any earthly master.

The Constitution guarantees us this right without government interfering and placing its mandates as being above God's mandates.

The portion of the cost of insurance paid by the employer is part of an employee's compensation, no different than the cash paid. Does the employer have the right to dictate how an employee spends the cash portion of his/her compensation package? No. It is no different for the non-cash portion. If the employer is so uncomfortable with the available insurance options, then the employer should increase the cash compensation and eliminate the insurance portion. Problem solved.

Sid wrote:The question is why someone should be forced to violate their religious beliefs by being forced to do this in the first place. A direct part of the Christian religion flatly states - Col 3:23 (CEV) Do your work willingly, as though you were serving the Lord himself, and not just your earthly master, (BBE) Whatever you do, do it readily, as to the Lord and not to men, (ERV) In all the work you are given, do the best you can. Work as though you are working for the Lord, not any earthly master.

The Constitution guarantees us this right without government interfering and placing its mandates as being above God's mandates.

O.M.G. This kind of religious crap makes my skin crawl. Yes, when one is being paid to do a job, they should work hard to earn their pay. But when I think of some of the yahoos I've worked for in the past, if they got it in their heads that the employees should be slaving for them as if for God, they would have been even bigger jerks.

Just do your job, treat your employees well, and keep the twisted, perverse, backward, manipulative religious junk out if it.

He can't control what other people do. He only wants a say in what he does. He does not want To buy his employees birth control or abortions. Pretty simple. The government should not be involved.

Whether or not his insurance company provides contraceptives to his employees that want them has zero effect on his ability to praise Jesus and conduct his religious life however he pleases. Those who are impacted are the employees who may not share his fundamentalist beliefs. His objection is with his employees who may decide to behave in a manner he considers sinful. If they all shared his beliefs and none chose to use birth control there would be no issue.

There still is no issue. They can work somewhere else or pay for it themselves. He can't control what they do, he can only control what he will do.

"If you don't like the work environment, you can work somewhere else" sounds very familiar. Seems to me that was the big argument 40 years ago when it came to sexual harassment.[/quote]Your disconnect is showing, if you think these two situations are equal.[/quote]Definition of an analogy:

Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

If you are incapable of seeing the similarity, you have zero imagination or are lying to make your point valid.[/quote]The reason I am incapable of seeing the similarity, is because there is none. Sexual harassment does not compare to an employee who wants the employer to pay for there birth control and abortions. These two things don't even belong in the same conversation. Calling me a liar is even more disconnect and bad manners. You have learned nothing.