Syria: Israel Will Be Attacked if the US Attacks Syria unitedwithisrael.orgA Syrian official said that if the US attacks Syria, a coalition consisting of Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon will attack Israel.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

August 27th, 2013, 9:03 pm

Nurosa

Pop Warner Rookie

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 1:56 pmPosts: 98

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

I realized I had an issue with Christianity when I caught on to the mindset of the church.

"If you don't know God did it." Well that didn't work for me. I'm a very inquisitive person and I always want to know more. So when I have questions I ask them. I wasn't very popular in the Catholic church because I asked questions and when the answeres conflicted with the things they had taught,I asked more questions. Eventually they would fall back on well God made it that way so stop asking. That just doesn't work for me. The God I remembered learning about asked us to study to show thyself approved until God. (2 Timothy 15)

Which meant to me there are answers out there we just have to look for them. The church I was involved with at the time didn't see it that way.

I've since wandered into churches and stayed for a while,but inevitably they have all had the same issue. Hate the Sin and the sinner. To my understanding Christ told us to "Hate the sin,but love the sinner"(Paraphrasing Romans 5:8)

They weren't able to do that and so I continued my journey trying to find my place and my answers. I figured God didn't make me inquisitive and tenacious without reason. Then I started paying attention to politics. The Republicans have always been a more "religious" party in my lifetime and I have no issues with this. I do have issues with the movement in my mind to force Christianity on people they seem to be having currently. I don't understand the need to get rid of welfare completely. I think it's a very Christlike thing to do. Do I agree there are problems? Of course I do,but they can be fixed without leaving people to stave or worse.

I had gotten very disillusioned to God and his people by the time my life started falling apart. My health took a major turn for the worse,lost my job and my fiancee in a span of about 6 months. I asked God why but never got an answer. I asked again what had I done to cause this to fall on my head. I believed. I tried to walk as sinless a life as I could. I treated my neighbors and strangers as myself. I loved God and followed him as best I could despite my issues with parts of the dogma. Nothing. In my eyes I had been abandoned. I still don't understand what caused that dark path.

I've been unemployed since January after my heart attack. They found a reason to get rid of me since I had to make changes in my scheduling.

I haven't changed what I was doing. I'm still doing what I can for people with what little I have. If things don't improve I'll soon lose my house and after that I have no idea what I'll do. The jobs don't seem to be around anymore. Wish I had a kind compassionate Father to explain to me whats going on.

It's sad to say that in my eyes now what has happened to my understanding.

He either CAN help and chooses not to or"He CAN'T help.

Either way He isn't the God I enjoyed learning about and talking to.

I've made reference in the past to me leaving both the Catholic and Roman Catholic churches,both times they asked me to leave by way of excommunicating me due to tough questions they didn't want to answer.

_________________“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”-Stephen Colbert-

August 28th, 2013, 1:27 am

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2882

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Christopher Hitchens on Christianity:

Let’s say that the consensus is that our species, being the higher primates, Homo Sapiens, has been on the planet for at least 100,000 years, maybe more. Francis Collins says maybe 100,000. Richard Dawkins thinks maybe a quarter-of-a-million. I’ll take 100,000. In order to be a Christian, you have to believe that for 98,000 years, our species suffered and died, most of its children dying in childbirth, most other people having a life expectancy of about 25 years, dying of their teeth. Famine, struggle, bitterness, war, suffering, misery, all of that for 98,000 years. Heaven watches this with complete indifference. And then 2000 years ago, thinks “That’s enough of that. It’s time to intervene,” and the best way to do this would be by condemning someone to a human sacrifice somewhere in the less literate parts of the Middle East. Don’t lets appeal to the Chinese, for example, where people can read and study evidence and have a civilization. Let’s go to the desert and have another revelation there.

This is nonsense. It can’t be believed by a thinking person.

August 28th, 2013, 2:55 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Well that's a lot to chew on but I'll give it a go.

I'm saddend that the best example of Christianity that you see today is what is viewed in media, in churches, and sometimes in people you meet. There is a KEY feature that everyone seems to overlook when pointing at Christians, they're people too! They are subject to the same triggers, the same desires, the same sins, the same sin nature as everyone else. The only difference; they've chosen to accept a relationship with Jesus Christ.

I applaud you for your inquisitive nature, and no I don't believe that you are not supposed to ask questions, nor seek answers. Many organized religions produce carbon copy Christians who portray the example of Christianity you are suggesting.

If you so desire, go back through a few of these pages, and see if I have not consistently suggested a PERSONAL relationship to Jesus. Many Christians that I know of, have worshipped with, and debated with struggle with the responsibility of Christianity. Go and make disciples... turn the other cheek... and much more. I can not profess to be perfect or all knowing either. In fact, I've gone through some recent perspective changes in the last 9 mos. that have been quite profound, and walk AGAINST church culture.

Many of my friends are 2nd Amendment supporting, gun toting, gay rights hating crowd. But after the tradegy in Conneticutt I happened to see a friend of mine's post on facebook about the 2nd Amendment. A self professing Atheist friend of his stated, "The bodies of the innocent have not even grown cold, and already you Christians are talking about your gun rights!" That statement was like an alarm clock, and I realized he was right. Immediately I changed my point of view! I'm not interested in fighting on behalf of this right or that WHATEVER it may be. As a blood bought Born Again Christian, I HAVE NO RIGHTS WHAT SO EVER! I have become a "slave of righteousness" and therefore subject to the slave owner. So any attempts to defend myself, my point of view, or argue someone into the kingdom is WRONG!!!

With that being said, I took a closer look at Jesus, and His entire ministry was based upon love. Love your neighbor, love your enemy, love, love, love, and suffer even if it costs you your life. Again, this runs against modern American Church culture.

Now to your situation: I can not explain why things are happening to you, but I can say this, I know who can do something about your situation and I'm willing to carry you there. Mark 2: 2-5 talks of four friends who loved their friend enough to carry him to the feet of Christ, when the door was full, they went to a window, when the window was blocked they went to the roof of someone else's place and tore a hole. Because of their love for their friend, they made a way! Jesus, in seeing their love, was moved by it and healed their friend.

IF you facebook, please stop by Requesting-Prayer, it's a new page started by a friend of mine and allows you to put your request before people who will pray for you specifically. I mean what have you got to lose right?

Do you like to read? I have a book written about circumstances I've gone through, and things I've learned from it, and I would like to send you a copy free of charge if you'd like! Just shoot me a PM, and give me your address, I don't mind at all. The book is called "A Voice from the Pews: Insights from a Common Man"

If you'd like to hear a description of the book go to Masculinejourneyradio.com and click on the PODCAST, "Nothing new under the Sun". This is a recent radio podcast interview I did via the phone to a group of guys I know in North Carolina. There may be an Apple Quicktime download you have to do, in order to hear it, but it's free.

Blue: I'm sorry that you've been burned and burdened by Christianity, and you along with others have stated your disgust many times and I can only say that I'm so sorry that your opinion is so jaded. I can not correct those wrongs, nor fix your perspective. For that matter, I may have participated in developing your perspective and I apologize for that as well. Christianity is nothing more that a RELATIONSHIP. Jesus is real, but you have to be willing to take the first step, that's all I've ever said. All the other religions of the world say DO, Jesus says DECIDE. We can argue semantics, and the Bible, and just about any topic you wish, but in the end it's all chatter that takes your attention away from the real question, "will you accpet the offer or not?" I'll keep praying for you, and leaving the results up to the Lord, He'll have to be the one to change yours and many other hearts here, but I'll keep being obedient and carrying you in prayer.

Have a blessed day!

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

WarEr, that is a fantastic post. I say that not because I agree with your opinions. I don't. In fact I'm pretty much in line with Blueskies. But, you have just demonstrated (in my opinion) what a "good" religious person is: someone who enriches their life through their faith and tries to share that with others in a positive way. That to me is what religion and faith is supposed to be. Too often, it isn't, but I applaud you for being honest about your faith and trying to live a positive life through it. I don't share your beliefs, but I respect you as a person.

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

I also want to thank WarEr4Christ for a fantastic post. I previously found a lot of your other posts about religion almost to be aggressive in nature and was often turned off by what I read, but this post was refreshing.

August 28th, 2013, 2:07 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Well thank you both,

I must honestly say that it hasn't always been so! In fact, if you want to see a progression in learning, might I suggest going all the way back to page one of this thread and watching where I was to what you see now. I'm pretty sure there will be a difference.

As I continue to walk my journey, and learn along the way, I've learned to see things from many aspects. Most recently, I was invited to participate in a folk music gathering in September. Now for those who don't know, that particular crowd is usually heavily liberal, gay rights, and so on. Many of these perspectives I don't necessarily agree with, but I happened to see something in particular that cut me. While attending a concert by the Red Sea Pedestrians, and Red Tail Ring, I watched a crowd of "hippies" come together, enjoy the music, and each others company. In fact, I was even welcomed among them as an equal, even though they don't know I'm a Born Again Christian, I was still accepted. The part that caught my attention was that I could not say the same would be true if I'd have invited these same people to my church.

What I've been discovering is that the CHURCH (I'm talking general Christian believers) are hung up on a traditional model. That is one man speaks from the pulpit, and we pay him money to do x, y, and z. But that is COUNTER-Jesus. Jesus didn't say come and sit, he said Go and Make disciples. How do you do that? By getting involved in people's lives, finding out what is going on, where are they hurting. Once you find that out, as a Christian pray for them and ask God to move in their lives. IF you can meet the need in some way, then do so, and if they retaliate with anger and hatred, take it! Don't retaliate yourself.

So please understand that I am personally choosing to live counter culture, and counter church culture and it is terribly difficult, but a walk of obedience. And that is far more important to me than anything else.

Thank you for commenting, that blesses me to hear it, and I really do appreciate it.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

August 28th, 2013, 2:38 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12312

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

WarEr, that is a fantastic post. I say that not because I agree with your opinions. I don't. In fact I'm pretty much in line with Blueskies. But, you have just demonstrated (in my opinion) what a "good" religious person is: someone who enriches their life through their faith and tries to share that with others in a positive way. That to me is what religion and faith is supposed to be. Too often, it isn't, but I applaud you for being honest about your faith and trying to live a positive life through it. I don't share your beliefs, but I respect you as a person.

rao wrote:

I also want to thank WarEr4Christ for a fantastic post. I previously found a lot of your other posts about religion almost to be aggressive in nature and was often turned off by what I read, but this post was refreshing.

Add me to the list.

WarEr4Christ - We've been back and forth on many an issue and I'd like to think we are both the better for it. Your words in these last couple of posts brings joy and warmth to my soul.

Peace, love and light to you & yours, my friend.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

August 28th, 2013, 2:57 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4006Location: Davison Mi

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Copunt me as #4! i applaud you W4C. you truely have come a long way. I am particularly interested in the line:

Quote:

. As a blood bought Born Again Christian, I HAVE NO RIGHTS WHAT SO EVER! I have become a "slave of righteousness" and therefore subject to the slave owner.

I have never heard it put quite that way, and really like that. Ill have to give that some serious reflection.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 28th, 2013, 5:11 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Joe, please let me know what you come up with. If you use Jesus as your model, you see the very Son of God, who had right to anything and everything giving up those rights in order to serve. "He who wishes to be greatest, must first become your servant." Jesus came to redeem mankind, so when Adam and Eve chose to sin, by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they became separated from God. Look at it like an adulterous affair if you will. The bride (humanity) was wooed by satan, that caused the break in relationship, and since we were sinful, we could not meet the standard of absolute purity. Throughout the OT you see plenty of examples where man had to atone for their sin by blood sacrifices. This all set the stage for what would later become the sacrificial lamb. Jesus, being the Son of God, chose to sacrifice his life and play that blood penalty that mankind could not pay. This is the bridge that we cross from here to God. Better yet, it's the filter by which our sins (scarlet) are blotted out (blood of Christ) and we are seen as pure because of that. BUT, we have to ask for it and receive it.

Since Jesus led that way, isn't our responsibility to follow as He walked? Church doesn't teach that, nor preach that, and many people of have been burned at hurt because of it. Living and following as Jesus did is hard but it's the obedient walk of faith that is LIFE changing.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

August 28th, 2013, 6:05 pm

Nurosa

Pop Warner Rookie

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 1:56 pmPosts: 98

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

I appreciate the kind words W4C.

However I don't think I'll go looking for HIM. HE knows where I am if HE wants to get involved. I'm through chasing shadows.

_________________“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”-Stephen Colbert-

August 29th, 2013, 12:20 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Nurosa,

I understand, but would you at least give me your first name? I'd like to make the introduction in prayer.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

August 29th, 2013, 8:53 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Nurosa wrote:

I appreciate the kind words W4C.

However I don't think I'll go looking for HIM. HE knows where I am if HE wants to get involved. I'm through chasing shadows.

I guess my question to you Nurosa would be 'how obvious does the first step from Christ have to be?' The first step may have been the post that W4C put on this forum and you've read, to make you think about some things. You probably don't see that as a way of Him contacting you. Those of faith will view it otherwise.

Remember, it's a relationship. A successful relationship is both parties working together. If you have a girlfriend, expecting her to do everything for you is going to end that relationship fairly quickly. Too often people are looking for Christ to solve their problems. Or, as it seems in your case, to show up at their doorstep with a tray of cookies in one hand and a wad of money in the other. Sorry, it just won't happen that way.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

August 29th, 2013, 9:53 am

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4006Location: Davison Mi

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Nurosa wrote:

I appreciate the kind words W4C.

However I don't think I'll go looking for HIM. HE knows where I am if HE wants to get involved. I'm through chasing shadows.

I'd also like to add a freindly piece of advice. Your statment here is full of pride, something that is written as offensive to God. He comes to those who ask in humilty, not to those who make demands of him.

I would also like to remind you to keep an eye on the bigger picture. In no way am I trying to belittle, or demean the rough and tragic events you are going through right now, but this too will pass. If god has the perfect job, and girl lined up for you, but you are currently not with either, what should happen? Should the creator of time, existance and everythingm, cater to what you want, or perhaps the other way around? just something to think about.

either way, I hope you find peace, and may the light at the end of your tunnel lead you to greener pastures than the ones you knew before.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 29th, 2013, 2:32 pm

Nurosa

Pop Warner Rookie

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 1:56 pmPosts: 98

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

It's not so much pride as it's just weariness. I tried to walk as I was commanded to. I did as best I could,but as we know all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

I just got to a point where the effort I was expending into the relationship wasn't worth the return. The more I walked towards him the worse things got. Now maybe that's my Job(person) moment,but I'm doubtful. I don't ask for piles of money and the greatest of everything, but some compassion would be nice. Some sign that says "Hey man I know this sucks but don't worry it's all for a reason". Something. Anything.

But instead it's been silence. Going on about 4 years now. I kept talking and got nothing back. I kept on praying and loving God before all others and nothing. If it had been a human relationship it would have been called abusive at best. Now I'm not saying I have the right to call the Almighty on the carpet for a list of grievances,that would be hubris to a point I can't even comprehend.

But I don't think it's out of line to ask hey you got a plan up there? You going somewhere with this,cause it really sucks right now.

Please don't take my issues with God personally. I don't hold Christians accountable for HIM,just like I can't hold HIM accountable for people. I guess my point was to stop and just say Hey wait a minute.

I'm a very spiritual person,but I don't have much use for Religion. My earlier statement about if HE wants to talk HE can find me is borne of a frustration of seeking and not finding. I've done what I can do to the best of my limited knowledge of the Divine.

HE can understand where I'm coming from isn't pride but more a injured child asking why should I continue what I've done without results. I dunno maybe I can't explain it. It's not anger as much as a form of hurt that would be nice to have addressed.

If it's for HIS greater good thats great. But please just let me in on the plan. In my opinion carrot and stick is a great teaching method as long as you don't overdo one over the other.

_________________“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”-Stephen Colbert-