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Re: 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

I still don't see what Mathieu's NFL position is. Yeah, he's a "football player" and all that. But he's going to have to do things besides serve as "designated roving gambler" out there. They say he'll be a good tackler at the next level. I'd have to see it to believe it. 4 reps tells me he better be Exhibit A at the Form Tackling Clinic if he has any plans of regularly stopping ballcarriers in the NFL. As Ray Lewis once said while he was miked up "You're playin' with grown men now!"

So right now some think he's a FS, some say nickel CB. I am not sure he's purely either one of those, and I'm not sure he's a good fit anywhere in particular.

I've said this before, but a film breakdown I saw on him once showed that nearly all his turnovers that he caused came on gambles where he only could take the risk because 2-3 other LSU defenders were in position to clean up behind him if he missed the INT/ PD or failed to strip the ball. He won't have the luxury of that safety net in the NFL, and will more often be asked to just stay tight and bring down the receiver.

So for him it's all about scheme fit. People don't like to hear that when they're enamored about a guy's playmaking skills (e.g. - Tavon Austin) but it's true. As with Austin, a guy like Mathieu is at best a potentially productive but complementary role player who can make plays for you IF the structure around him is set up to allow it. He will not be the driving force or linchpin of any defense. More like a fun guy to have on a Madden game, and I think that's honestly what affects a lot of opinions on certain guys. Madden and fantasy football have began to cloud perceptions about what real football players can achieve in real games.

Re: 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

He clearly showed he is a much better athlete than so many people were making him out to be.

I've been a fan for the last 2 years, but I recognize the off field issues. It wouldn't surprise me if he isn't even on our board at all...in fact, I'd expect us to have took him off....that's usually how Ozzie and John roll with not wanting knuckleheads. He seems contrite and sounds like he realizes how much he has thrown away...but it has been a short period of time. I liked how he said he would be proactive and hire someone to help chaperone him for a while.

But I think if he stays off the weed, and goes to a team with a DC who uses him as a "roving" CB/S, I think he will be a very, very good player.

Nobody has ever disputed that Mathieu was a big-time playmaker in college. But he presents several problems as a pro prospect... he doesn't have a defined NFL position. He looked good in the drills and is clearly a good athlete, but he was NEVER a dominant player in coverage in college and that's not a good thing for a DB to be.

He's too small, physically overmatched, and technically deficient to play outside corner in the NFL, at least for quite a while. A 5'9 180 pound CB CAN succeed in the NFL, but you need to have a serious edge with physicality and technique. Antoine Winfield is the guy that comes to mind, but Mathieu is nowhere near as physical or technically proficient as Winfield.

That puts him at nickel corner or "package" safety and you can do some good things with him there. He's going to improve your base-package run defense and contribute as a slot blitzer. But he's not going to be able to hang with a lot of NFL receivers in man coverage, so you better protect him by playing a lot of zone and letting him react and play the ball in the air.

That sounds to me like a mid-round pick, but only for teams that play a defense he'd fit well in. Then you add in the off-the-field problems, which make him undraftable IMO. Now, I said all along that he would have a chance to redeem himself at the Combine, and by all accounts he did very well in the interviews. He has a chance to make himself a day 2 pick if he can really convince a few teams that he's a new man. I'm still not sure where I'd be comfortable taking him but I wouldn't be too upset if the Ravens got him in the 4th or so, again assuming (big assumption) that he's turned his entire life around.

Re: 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Phil Thomas put up a 4.62.

He plays much faster than that on tape, and his 10-yard split was more than adequate at 1.54. He has plenty of burst and range to cover a lot of ground even if his straight-line speed is not elite. He is still my preferred pick at safety if we don't get Elam or Vaccaro in the 1st, I like him A LOT.

I pretty much have a safety that I like a lot in each round. Earl Wolff is another guy I'm high on as a more mid-to-late round option. I see he ran very well with a 4.41, 1.5 split (which is excellent) and 39" vertical.

Re: 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

He plays much faster than that on tape, and his 10-yard split was more than adequate at 1.54. He has plenty of burst and range to cover a lot of ground even if his straight-line speed is not elite. He is still my preferred pick at safety if we don't get Elam or Vaccaro in the 1st, I like him A LOT.

I pretty much have a safety that I like a lot in each round. Earl Wolff is another guy I'm high on as a more mid-to-late round option. I see he ran very well with a 4.41, 1.5 split (which is excellent) and 39" vertical.

I like Wolf too.

Shawn Williams performed nicely as well. I wasn't expecting him to run that fast.

Re: 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

Originally Posted by NC Raven

I still don't see what Mathieu's NFL position is. Yeah, he's a "football player" and all that. But he's going to have to do things besides serve as "designated roving gambler" out there. They say he'll be a good tackler at the next level. I'd have to see it to believe it. 4 reps tells me he better be Exhibit A at the Form Tackling Clinic if he has any plans of regularly stopping ballcarriers in the NFL. As Ray Lewis once said while he was miked up "You're playin' with grown men now!"

So right now some think he's a FS, some say nickel CB. I am not sure he's purely either one of those, and I'm not sure he's a good fit anywhere in particular.

I've said this before, but a film breakdown I saw on him once showed that nearly all his turnovers that he caused came on gambles where he only could take the risk because 2-3 other LSU defenders were in position to clean up behind him if he missed the INT/ PD or failed to strip the ball. He won't have the luxury of that safety net in the NFL, and will more often be asked to just stay tight and bring down the receiver.

So for him it's all about scheme fit. People don't like to hear that when they're enamored about a guy's playmaking skills (e.g. - Tavon Austin) but it's true. As with Austin, a guy like Mathieu is at best a potentially productive but complementary role player who can make plays for you IF the structure around him is set up to allow it. He will not be the driving force or linchpin of any defense. More like a fun guy to have on a Madden game, and I think that's honestly what affects a lot of opinions on certain guys. Madden and fantasy football have began to cloud perceptions about what real football players can achieve in real games.

The NFL is filled with players who couldn't be nailed down to a specific position coming out of College.

What was Adalius Thomas...he played every position on defense other than CB. JJ was an incredibly undersized DT. McClain...Kruger...all those guys didn't have a position nailed down...and those are just on our team.

And as for the "gambling"...If you know what you are doing out there and have great instincts, what looks like gambling to you or me is really just a great feel for the game and film study. Ed Reed rode "gambling" in the secondary to the HOF.

And he's the same weight and an inch shorter than Webbie.

And nobody here is talking about taking him high...is it really a problem if he is a 4th or 5th round pick?

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Nobody has ever disputed that Mathieu was a big-time playmaker in college. But he presents several problems as a pro prospect... he doesn't have a defined NFL position. He looked good in the drills and is clearly a good athlete, but he was NEVER a dominant player in coverage in college and that's not a good thing for a DB to be.

He's too small, physically overmatched, and technically deficient to play outside corner in the NFL, at least for quite a while. A 5'9 180 pound CB CAN succeed in the NFL, but you need to have a serious edge with physicality and technique. Antoine Winfield is the guy that comes to mind, but Mathieu is nowhere near as physical or technically proficient as Winfield.

That puts him at nickel corner or "package" safety and you can do some good things with him there. He's going to improve your base-package run defense and contribute as a slot blitzer. But he's not going to be able to hang with a lot of NFL receivers in man coverage, so you better protect him by playing a lot of zone and letting him react and play the ball in the air.

That sounds to me like a mid-round pick, but only for teams that play a defense he'd fit well in. Then you add in the off-the-field problems, which make him undraftable IMO. Now, I said all along that he would have a chance to redeem himself at the Combine, and by all accounts he did very well in the interviews. He has a chance to make himself a day 2 pick if he can really convince a few teams that he's a new man. I'm still not sure where I'd be comfortable taking him but I wouldn't be too upset if the Ravens got him in the 4th or so, again assuming (big assumption) that he's turned his entire life around.

All that being said (some I agree with, some I think is being overblown)...every single person in this thread and others has been talking about taking him in the mid rounds.

Calm down guys, just because some of us like him a lot doesn't mean that we are trying to take him with our first or second round pick.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

He plays much faster than that on tape, and his 10-yard split was more than adequate at 1.54. He has plenty of burst and range to cover a lot of ground even if his straight-line speed is not elite. He is still my preferred pick at safety if we don't get Elam or Vaccaro in the 1st, I like him A LOT.

I pretty much have a safety that I like a lot in each round. Earl Wolff is another guy I'm high on as a more mid-to-late round option. I see he ran very well with a 4.41, 1.5 split (which is excellent) and 39" vertical.

I like him too.

I'm not throwing these guys in a trash heap because of these times...4.6 40 is about average for an NFL safety.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.