'This Week' Transcript: Sen. John McCain

AMANPOUR (voice-over): This week, are Republicans turning into
doves with their calls to end the war in Afghanistan?

ROMNEY: Our troops shouldn't go off and try and find a war of
independence for another nation.

AMANPOUR: ... and stop U.S. military action over Libya?

BACHMANN: We were not attacked. We were not threatened with
attack. There was no vital national interest.

AMANPOUR: This morning, the last Republican nominee gives a stern
warning that his party is headed in the wrong direction.

MCCAIN: I do want to send a message, and that is that we cannot
move into an isolationist party.

AMANPOUR: Then, after the Republican debate, Romney breaks out,
Bachmann shines, and Pawlenty stumbles. We'll size up the field on our
roundtable.

And "Good Morning America's" Robin Roberts joins us with an
exclusive interview, President Obama on Father's Day.

OBAMA: I have this huge advantage. I live over the store. At
6:30, no matter how busy I am, for an hour to an hour-and-a-half, my
only focus is them.

ANNOUNCER: Live from the Newseum in Washington, "This Week" with
Christiane Amanpour starts right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, and happy Father's Day.

Senator John McCain will join us in just a moment, but first, some
news since your morning papers.

In Japan, a new phase in the struggle to contain radiation at the
crippled Fukushima nuclear plant. Workers will briefly open the main
door to install a cooling system to avert another explosion. It's been
more than three months since the reactor was swamped by that devastating
tsunami.

Here in the United States, tens of thousands of people in the South
are without power today after heavy storms battered the region. Heavy
winds, pounding rain, and lightning hit Georgia, Florida, and North
Carolina.

And Bruce Springsteen fans the world over are gathering today to
mourn the death of the boss's longtime band member, Clarence Clemons.
The saxophonist died last night after suffering a stroke early in the
week.

Today also marks a milestone in America's war against Libya. It is
now 90 days since the United States launched air strikes against Moammar
Gadhafi. President Obama authorized that military intervention without
congressional approval, but under the War Powers Act, he must get
official Capitol Hill sign-off after 90 days of hostilities. Today is
the deadline, but the questions remain: Will Congress cut off funding
for the war, or with lawmakers vote to approve or disapprove continued
U.S. intervention?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Joining us now, the top Republican on the Senate Armed
Services Committee, Senator John McCain. Thank you for being with us.

MCCAIN: Thank you for having me on.

AMANPOUR: Let us talk about the debate really roiling and raging on
Capitol Hill about what the president of the United States is authorized
to do over Libya. And earlier this week, you issued a warning, an
admonition to your own party. Let's listen to what you said earlier
this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: I caution my friends, both here in the Senate and in the
House of Representatives, that we don't want to do anything or pass
legislation which would encourage Gadhafi to remain in power. And I
would say to my Republican friends: If this were a Republican
president, would you be trying to impose these same conditions?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So that was pretty stark. Were you saying that they're
at risk of putting politics over national security and over policy?

MCCAIN: I think that's a great risk, coupled with war weariness,
coupled with the lack of complete success in -- or apparent to some
success in Libya, although I believe that Gadhafi is crumbling. But I
think it's a combination of things. And it certainly is also a bit of
partisanship. But the president of the United States, I believe, should
have gone in with our air power and not given it to, quote, "NATO"
because...

AMANPOUR: Not "leading from behind," so to speak.

MCCAIN: ... exactly, not leading from behind. But the point is
that if we do not continue this effort in Libya, if Gadhafi remains in
power, it could have profound consequences.

So the War Powers Act, every president has said that they don't
agree with its constitutionality, but they have adhered to it. So the
Congress of the United States should pass a resolution -- and Senator
John Kerry and I have the resolution that's ready to go -- that would
comply with the War Powers Act.

AMANPOUR: You said that you think Gadhafi is crumbling. We've
heard the Europeans say that they might have to continue the bombing to
the fall. I've heard American top military officials say the same
thing. Are you prepared for it to take that long?

MCCAIN: I'm prepared, whether our European allies that -- 7 nations
of the 28 that are actually in the fight have the assets is a legitimate
question. We are providing all the logistical support, the
intelligence, refueling, literally everything but combat aircraft,
including Predators. Predators are in the fight. But it's an enormous
strain on our allies.

AMANPOUR: Are you concerned, though, about the message we're
hearing? You've talked about the partisan share, what's going on in
Congress. Are you concerned, for instance, about what Speaker Boehner
is saying about this?

MCCAIN: Well, I was more concerned about what the candidates in New
Hampshire the other night said. This is isolationism. There's always
been an isolation strain -- isolation strain in the Republican Party,
the Pat Buchanan wing of our party. But now it seems to have moved more
center stage, so to speak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: Defense Secretary Gates, when he came before the United
States Congress, he could not identify a vital national American
interest in Libya. We were not attacked. We were not threatened with
attack. There was no vital national interest.

CAIN: They are not simple situations. It's a mess. It's this
absolute mess.

GINGRICH: We have got to have a totally new strategy for the
region, because we don't today have the kind of intelligence we need to
know even what we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: If we had not intervened, Gadhafi was at the gates of
Benghazi. He said he was going to go house to house to kill everybody.
That's a city of 700,000 people. What would be saying now if we had
allowed for that to happen?

AMANPOUR: Well, you were one of the key supporters. And what
you're talking is all the Republicans on the stage of that debate on
Monday seeming to waver from what's a traditional Republican position on
national security.

MCCAIN: I wonder what Ronald Reagan would be saying today.

AMANPOUR: What would he be saying today, if he had heard, for
instance, Michele Bachmann or Mitt Romney?

MCCAIN: He would be saying that's not the Republican Party of the
20th century and now the 21st century. That is not the Republican Party
that has been willing to stand up for freedom for people for all over
the world, whether it be in Grenada, that Ronald Reagan had a quick
operation about, or whether it be in our enduring commitment to
countering the Soviet Union.

AMANPOUR: So what do you say, then, to a Michele Bachmann who said
that there was no vital interest in Libya?

MCCAIN: I strongly disagree with her and others. The fact is, our
interests are our values. And our values are that we don't want people
needlessly slaughtered by the thousands if we can prevent such activity.

Second of all, Gadhafi has the blood of 90 Americans on his hands.
He is a person who has been involved in acts of terror against the
United States of America, bombing of our embassies, et cetera. So...

AMANPOUR: Pan Am 103?

MCCAIN: Pan Am 103, the 90-some Americans that were killed in the
blowing up of Pan Am 103, the bombing of the disco in Germany. So if
Gadhafi remains in power, it's clear that you will see him engage in an
escalated effort, of course, to harm the United States of America,
obviously.

AMANPOUR: So let's turn then, for instance, to Afghanistan, where,
quite amazingly, many of the candidates, if not all, were talking about
a swift withdrawal from Afghanistan. For instance, Mitt Romney was one
of those who said so, and let's listen to what he said at that debate.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ROMNEY: It's time for us to bring our troops home as soon as we
possibly can, consistent with the word that comes from our generals that
we can hand the country over. I think we've learned some important
lessons in our experience in Afghanistan.

Our troops shouldn't go off and try and fight a war of independence
for another nation. Only the Afghanis can win Afghanistan's
independence from the Taliban.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So there are several questions raised there. Number one,
is this a war of independence that the United States is fighting in
Afghanistan?

MCCAIN: I had never heard it described that way. He talked about
the lessons of history. We abandoned Afghanistan once, and we paid a
very heavy price for it in the attacks of 9/11. So that is an important
lesson that we must learn.

Second of all, we are succeeding in Afghanistan. We have now gained
significant control of the southern part of the country. We now have
the challenge in the eastern side. And so we are succeeding.

By the way, it reminds me of the summer of 2007, when we were all
ready to pull out of Iraq, and we had to stay the course, and we were
able to -- the surge was able to succeed. That surge is succeeding
again under the same general.

I wish that -- that candidate Romney and all the others would sit
down with General Petraeus and understand how this counterinsurgency is
working and succeeding. And it still has enormous challenges, the
Karzai government, the latest problems with Pakistan. But for us to
abandon Afghanistan to the tender mercies of the Taliban and radical
Islamic extremists I think would be repeating mistakes we made before.

AMANPOUR: Another thing that Mitt Romney said was bring them back
swiftly in accordance with what the general said, he added. But of
course, right now that debate is going on. What do you think Congress
will support? Will it oppose President Obama if he decides on, let's
say, a 5,000 to 10,000 troop withdrawal this summer?

MCCAIN: I think that Congress will support a, quote, "modest
withdrawal." One of the major reasons for that is because Secretary
Gates, who is probably by all measurement one of the most respected men
in America today, has called repeatedly for a, quote, "modest
withdrawal." So the president really has Secretary Gates to back him up
if he makes that decision.

One other pure political point: Suppose the surge continues to
succeed, and the summer of 2012 the president was able then to announce
a massive withdrawal? That would be very helpful to the president
politically. I always try to help him as much as I can politically.

AMANPOUR: I can't believe you're giving him this strategic advice.

MCCAIN: But I think it's -- but it's also, I think, clear that we
do need to move into the eastern Afghanistan and finish this fight with
one more season.

AMANPOUR: So just to be clear then, what you're saying is that you
would support a, quote, "modest withdrawal" of 5,000 to 10,000...

MCCAIN: Yes, mainly support troops.

AMANPOUR: ... as Secretary Gates has said.

MCCAIN: Yes, support troops, yes.

AMANPOUR: And you think Congress will give him that backing? They
won't oppose him this time?

MCCAIN: I think there's going to be a huge debate about it. I
think there's going to be a real struggle. But I remember, again, the
summer of 2007, they were within one vote of 60 votes to force
withdrawal. And, again, I would hope that Ryan Crocker and David
Petraeus and General Allen, his successor, would be appearing before
Congress. I think they can make a case.

AMANPOUR: Key to the success of Afghanistan and to America's
strategic relationship is, obviously, Pakistan. And there's been so
much talk about Pakistan in the news this week, including that they
arrested the CIA informant who helped the United States kill Osama bin
Laden. I mean, what does this say? Is it a chilling effect on the
relationship even beyond what already exists? And can it be overcome?

MCCAIN: I think it's one of the most -- probably the most
frustrating aspect of this whole issue. We have known for years that
the ISI had contacts and relations with -- with the Taliban, the Haqqani
network in particular. Part of that, by the way, was the result of the
fact we abandoned Pakistan with the so-called Pressler amendment some
years ago.

But -- so it seems to me that to restore our confidence in our
relationship with Pakistan, they have to make certain steps. And we
have to sort of set up some benchmarks as to what we expect.

After all, the United States is investing billions and billions of
dollars in Pakistan. And we have -- taxpayers have a right to have a
return on that. So I want to -- and I think we will -- set up some
benchmarks for Afghanistan, add (ph) the same kind of thing we did with
Iraq, and some benchmarks for Pakistan that we really expect them to
meet. And it's going to be very difficult obviously is the enemy has
sanctuary.

AMANPOUR: Do you see any hope in actually getting this relationship
back on any kind of decent footing?

MCCAIN: I do, but part of it has to do with the Pakistanis' belief
in the length and depth of our commitment. If they think we're leaving,
they have to stay in the neighborhood, and it's the toughest and most
dangerous neighborhood. If they think we're willing to see it through
with them, I think it's much more likely we'll get their cooperation.

AMANPOUR: Let's move to domestic politics, which obviously shapes
all of this, including what you called war weariness, but also the
weariness of paying the immense amount of money that it's costing. ABC
poll says somewhere between 45 percent and 46 percent of those polled
say that they're not satisfied with the candidates as yet. Are you --
and they want somebody else. Would you consider yourself satisfied with
the slate that's already up there? Or you one of the 46 percent who
wants to see somebody else jump in?

MCCAIN: I'm satisfied. I think there may be others who jump in,
but I'm satisfied. This is the beginning of a process. But I'm
confident that we will come up with a candidate that will be very
competitive with President Obama.

AMANPOUR: And are you ready -- will you endorse somebody?

MCCAIN: I think it's inappropriate for me to. But I do want to
send a message, and that is that we cannot move into an isolationist
party. We cannot repeat the lessons of the 1930s, when the United
States of America stood by while bad things happened in the world. We
are the lead nation in the world, and America matters, and we must
lead. But sometimes that leadership entails sacrifice, sadly.

AMANPOUR: Senator McCain, thank you very much for being with us.

MCCAIN: Thank you for having me on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: As you heard, strong words from John McCain on Pakistan.
And up next, I'll ask that country's ambassador, what will it take to
save the American-Pakistan alliance? And Liz Cheney will join us to lay
down some benchmarks of her own.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: A key question this week: Are Republican hawks changing
their tune on America's wars? And how does the United States mend
relations with Pakistan, which is a crucial ally in the fight against
terrorism and extremism? That relationship has been sorely tested since
Osama bin Laden was discovered hiding in Pakistan. And this week,
another setback, when we learned that the Pakistani military had rounded
up some of the informants belonging to the CIA who had led the United
States to bin Laden. And that triggered this testy back-and-forth on
Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAHY: How long do we support governments that lie to us?

GATES: Most governments lie to each other. That's the way business
gets done.

LEAHY: Do they also arrest -- do they also arrest the people that
help us...

GATES: Sometimes.

LEAHY: ... when they say they're our allies?

GATES: Sometimes.

LEAHY: Not often.

GATES: And sometimes they send people to spy on us, and they're our
close allies. So...

LEAHY: And we give aid to them.

GATES: That's the real world that we deal with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: I'm joined now by Pakistan's ambassador to the United
States, Husain Haqqani. Also with us, former Deputy Assistant Secretary
of State Liz Cheney and David Ignatius of the Washington Post.

Thank you all for being here. Let me get straight to you,
Ambassador. You heard that testy exchange. This is the real world. We
understand. But why has Pakistan done that with these CIA informants?

HAQQANI: Pakistan has rounded up more than 30 people as part of the
investigation about the Osama bin Laden compound. Of course, we were
taken by surprise. And among those are, of course, people with all
kinds of information. We will be dealing with each one of them on the
basis of what information they have.

As far as the concern that there are people amongst the people that
we have rounded up who are informants for the CIA, we will deal with
them as we would deal with a friendly intelligence service, and we will
resolve this to the satisfaction of our friends, as well as to our own
laws.

AMANPOUR: So are they being punished? Will they be punished?

HAQQANI: No one is being punished. Basically, this is an exercise
in trying to find out what has happened. As Secretary Gates would say,
that's the real world. When something like this happens, you want to
know what happened and how and who was involved.

AMANPOUR: But you can imagine, of course -- Liz Cheney is sitting
here, David Ignatius -- to the Americans, it looks like people who led
them to the most-hated, most-wanted terrorist are being punished and
detained.

HAQQANI: That is an incorrect characterization for the simple
reason that the people who led the Americans to the OBL compound
included many people from Pakistan's government. After all, the first
intelligence step that enabled the U.S. to piece together the
intelligence that got them there came from the Pakistani authorities.

AMANPOUR: Is it a satisfactory response from the ambassador to this
incident of the detention of these people?

CHENEY: You know, I think there's no question but that it is, you
know, an embarrassment that bin Laden was there for as many years as he
was there. But I think it's also -- there's no question that this
relationship is hugely important, and it's one in which we have worked
together to do very important things, the capture of Khalid Sheikh
Mohammed, the capture of Abu Zubaydah, continuing to fight terrorism.

I think that the extent to which you've got extremists who threaten
U.S. interests in Pakistan, they also threaten the Pakistani
government. And the surest way for those extremists to win, frankly, is
if we react in this sort of a knee-jerk fashion here in the United
States or, as Senator McCain said, if we decide that we're going to pull
out, that we cannot be counted on to maintain our commitment in
Afghanistan until we've been able to make sure we prevail there.

AMANPOUR: We'll get to that in a moment. But, David, what
mechanisms are there, do you think, that the United States and Pakistan
can reset their relations for this vital and crucial endeavor?

IGNATIUS: My contacts on both sides, U.S. and Pakistan, tell me
that there is now an effort to create what you could call a new normal,
after the bitter shock and disappointment of recent months, which
culminated in the May 2 raid on bin Laden's compound. It's shocking to
us that the Pakistanis allowed him to be there. It's shocking to the
Pakistanis...

HAQQANI: We did not allow him to be there, David. He just happened
to be there.

IGNATIUS: The American perceptions of this, Ambassador. And it's
shocking to Pakistanis that their air space and sovereignty was violated.

So there is something of a low ebb, as it's been described in
reports, and I think an effort to put things back together in a new
framework, with new rules of the road, that -- sources speak about a new
joint task force on counterterrorism, where the two sides will work
together more closely, other things like that.

I think the American feeling is, this new normal will take a while
to develop, and it won't ever be quite as strong as we might like.

AMANPOUR: Let me just ask you, you just said we want to know what
other information they have. I mean, everybody presumably now is
watching very closely Ayman al-Zawahiri, who this week took the lead of
Al Qaida. Is anybody here concerned that this person now is going to
feel pressure to launch a major attack on U.S. or U.S. interests, Liz?

CHENEY: Well, certainly. I mean, I think that whoever is the
leader of Al Qaida, that's clearly their objective, and I think they'll
continue to want to make themselves known, and I think, once again,
that's why the sort of strain of isolationism that we began to see from
some of the Republican candidates is so very concerning.

I think that we have to remember we are at war. The notion that we
can somehow retreat, pull back from Afghanistan, for example, as you
heard Ambassador Huntsman say, is very naive.

And I think a situation in which the United States, led by the, you
know, Republican Party candidates for president begins to adopt a
position where we believe our safety is guaranteed if we simply come
back within the boundaries of our nation, is one in which we will surely
be attacked again and one in which we are clearly less safe.

AMANPOUR: So let's talk about that. It's clearly -- it appears to
be sort of a turning point moment right now. That debate on Monday in
New Hampshire, with all the traditional defense and national security
hawks, which is what the Republican Party has traditionally been, really
sort of pulling back, you know, in a way that's alarmed the foreign
policy establishment. Is this just a momentary change because of the
budget problems, because of war weariness? Or do you think this sets a
new benchmark for the Republicans?

CHENEY: Well, I think it's very important for Republicans to speak
out, for Republicans who recognize how dangerous that path is to speak
out. Clearly, you've got polls now that shows there is war weariness.
Obviously, we've got huge and significant debt issues that we've got to
be able to address.

But it's important for people to remember that the cost to us of
pulling back, the cost to us of not finishing the job in Afghanistan, of
not leading -- you know, President Obama himself clearly is contributing
to this. He's very hesitant to lead, really doesn't want to lead, is
not standing up and explaining to the American people why we must
prevail in Afghanistan, is not standing up and explaining why it's so
important for us to prevail in Libya.

And in a situation in which the president, the commander-in-chief is
not leading, and the leading Republican Party candidates are responding
in some instances to poll numbers that show the unpopularity of these
policies, we run the risk of a very dangerous foreign policy path.

AMANPOUR: And looking at it from your perspective, number one, do
you have any information on Zawahiri?

HAQQANI: The U.S. side and Pakistan are working together on any
information that any side has. The U.S. will share the intelligence.
The Pakistanis will act. Whatever we do, we will do jointly. Ayman
al-Zawahiri is definitely the top priority for both Pakistani and U.S.
intelligence.

And one point I would like to make in continuation to what Liz
Cheney was saying, if there is war weariness in the United States and
there are concerns about the budget, try and imagine the pressures on
President Karzai in Afghanistan and President Zardari in Pakistan, and
then...

(CROSSTALK)

HAQQANI: ... and then look at the context. Just as, for example,
one private first class got annoyed with the war and caused Wikileaks to
happen, there are people like that in Islamabad, there are people like
that in Kabul. So that is the context in which we should be judged
instead of this assumption that anything that goes wrong is definitely
because Pakistanis just don't want to be America's allies. We want to
be American allies. We are American allies. Sometimes things just
don't go as we all want them to go.

AMANPOUR: In the big debate that's going to come up over
withdrawing U.S. troops, I don't know whether it's going to be a big
debate like last time, but there's going to be a decision. How many, do
you think, we're going to see withdrawn this summer?

IGNATIUS: The president has kept his -- his hand very close on
this. The military recommendation is for a small number. It's usually
pegged at 3,000 to 5,000 troops. The signals I'm getting from the White
House is to expect something more than that, I would guess something
approaching five digits, towards 10,000 in this first announcement.

But the larger point -- and this goes to, I think, all of the issues
that we've been discussing -- is the president looks at what happened
over the course of this last 18 months with his Af-Pak policy. He feels
that the counterterrorism effort, that part of it, has been very
successful, that we really have Al Qaida on the run. The symbol of that
is killing Osama bin Laden.

Other parts of this policy, the attempt to stabilize the south in
Afghanistan (inaudible) the Kandahar provinces, has been less
successful, by the president's judgment.

So I think, looking forward, the key to policy will be, let's stress
the things that are working, which are counterterrorism. Let's make
sure we continue to push with that. And the success on that allows us
somewhat more flexibility in removing troops.

I must say, Ambassador Haqqani, the focus on counterterrorism really
does put the relationship between U.S. and Pakistan as a key variable
here, because if that's not going well, counterterrorism efforts will
really be hurt.

HAQQANI: Absolutely.

CHENEY: The counterterrorism efforts are critically important, but
I think that if you talk -- as I know you do -- to the generals on the
ground, they would say the counterinsurgency efforts themselves must
also continue. And I think that's the concern, that if we pull back,
you know, 10,000 troops, the counterinsurgency efforts -- which, in
fact, have been quite successful, and now they will move into the east
-- will suffer significantly.

AMANPOUR: We can see the battle lines being drawn between those two
policies, as well. Thank you all for being with us.

And up next, the politics of war in the presidential campaign. Our
roundtable weighs in on the newly dovish Republican candidates.

And later, President Obama, in a Father's Day exclusive with ABC's
Robin Roberts. Tips from the parent-in-chief on raising teenage
daughters in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I have men with guns that surround them often. And a great
incentive for running for re-election is that it means they never get in
a car with a boy who had a beer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLBERT: Just two days ago on "Fox News Sunday," Pawlenty jacked
Mitt Romney right in the health care plan.

PAWLENTY: President Obama said that he designed Obamacare after
Romneycare and basically made it Obamneycare.

COLBERT: Obamneycare is perfect. It's the Brangelina of political
attacks. So the Minnesota governor was totally primed and ready when
John King lobbed him a softball...

KING: If it was Obamneycare on "Fox News Sunday," why is it not
Obamneycare standing here with the governor right there?

PAWLENTY: It -- President Obama is -- is the person who I quoted in
saying he looked to Massachusetts for designing his program.

AMANPOUR: Steven Colbert on Tim Pawlenty's debate performance. The
former Minnesota governor wiped out in the first major showdown, so say
many of the pundits of campaign 2012. The question now is, can he pick
himself back up?

Thank you all for being here. Let me go straight to you, because
you are a big supporter of Pawlenty. We talked about it last week. And
I want to know, is this fair, all this dumping on him? Can he recover
from him? Is it just -- kind of a bump in the road, so to speak, on the
way to the candidacy?

WILL: Well, I'm a supporter of Pawlenty in that I think he's one of
the plausible presidents that they could nominate. One debate neither
makes nor breaks a campaign, but he has to sorry a problem. On the one
hand, he's behind, so he must attack. On the other hand, his virtue,
his strength is that he's seen as a temperate, nice, Upper Midwestern
mainstream conservative. And those -- so his tactics and his strategy
are in conflict here.

AMANPOUR: Right. And I was just reading that, that there is this
sort of conflict. Should he be precisely that, the sensible, or the
attack dog? You think that he doesn't -- he's really had a problem in
this debate?

DOWD: Yeah, but part of the thing is, is that -- one from the
things in political campaigns is you have to be authentic and genuine,
so he has -- starts this very personalized attack towards Mitt Romney
and then shows up and he's with him in person and then backs off of it.
Their campaign is -- and he knows it was a problem, which is why he
tried to address it in the days after, which I don't think he addressed
very well.

I don't think it's a death knell for a campaign, but when you start
off that low in the polls and you have to do everything right --
basically, Tim Pawlenty to win the nomination has to just do about --
just about everything right.

This was a problem, when you show up for the first time and you're
ready to sort of engage at a high level and you pull back, and George is
right. You want to preserve authenticity, but it was a problem for him,
and he can't make many more of these mistakes or he'll be done.

WALTER: Yeah, and this is the real problem for Tim Pawlenty, is
finding that niche. He wants to be the consensus conservative, but
there already is a consensus conservative. That's Mitt Romney. So to
be the alternative, he has to be the combative conservative or the
controversial conservative. And he's not that person. And that person
is Michele Bachmann right now.

AMANPOUR: Well, it looks like, perhaps, Michele Bachmann was the
breakout. That's what, again, lots of people are saying after looking
at that debate. Do you agree?

WEISBERG: She had a good performance. I mean, in a way, she's a
like a Sarah Palin who makes sense when she speaks. You know, she
doesn't think everything revolves around her. She doesn't think reality
is like an elitist plot against her. And to be frank, she doesn't lie
reflectively the way Sarah Palin does. So if there's room for one of
them in the race, it certainly looks like it would be Bachmann now on
the far right, rather than Palin.

DOWD: I don't think Sarah Palin -- I don't think either one of them
would consider that a compliment, comparing one to the other on this
situation. But I think Michele Bachmann, she had a great night. She
came from nowhere. But I think this process is such a long process.
She has been prone to make some mistakes. She does speak to a
grassroots part of the party. But she's going to be affected if the
governor of Texas -- Michele Bachmann more than anybody else I think
will be affected if the governor of Texas gets in this race.

WALTER: You know who she reminds me, though, of, is she's sort of
the Howard Dean of this election. She's coming in and talking to that
grassroots base that nobody else is doing right now. You can see her
getting to that place in Iowa, and then you're right. She has to see if
she can have that...

(CROSSTALK)

WILL: But at this stage, also, in the process, biography is a good
bit of what this is about. And her biography is terrific, the 23 foster
children, the 5 children. She's walked the walk, and it resonates.

AMANPOUR: Well, George, let's leap to the governor of Texas, who
brought down the house at the Republican gathering in Louisiana. Let's
just look at what he said and the reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: And our loudest opponents on the left are never going to
like us, so let's quit trying to curry favor with them.

(APPLAUSE)

Let's stop this American downward spiral.

(APPLAUSE)

We're doing this. And it's happening because of too much spending,
too much interfering, and too much apologizing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So is he going to come in (inaudible) and what niche does
he fill?

WILL: I think he will come in. He'll fill the niche of those who
think there's something deeply flawed about this array of candidates,
although I'm not sure how many people really -- I'm not sure whether
more people feel that way this year than do normally. But he's -- he's
friendly both to the Tea Party and to the social conservatives. They're
not at all the same constituency, and he bridges that gap well.

WEISBERG: But are we really going to have an election about
abortion, with all that's going on now with the economy, around the
world? I mean, it just seems like a kind of throwback. You have all of
this skirmishing on the right of the Republican Party, and all of these
people trying to win over the base vote. Meanwhile, who is Barack Obama
afraid of running against? I think he'd be most afraid of running
against a Jon Huntsman or a Mitt Romney. He'd love to run against
Michele Bachmann or a Sarah Palin.

AMANPOUR: So let's answer...

DOWD: I just think the governor of Texas -- I live in Austin. I've
known Rick Perry for 25 years. I knew Rick Perry when both of us were
Democrats, when he filed as a Democrat. I took his filing as a Democrat
as a state representative.

I think -- while it may be true that there's not an appetite for a
lot of social conservative issue, I think he best touches those issues
quickly. He has got the best rhetoric anti-Washington. He was Tea
Party before Tea Party was cool. And he ran a race in Texas against a
very popular incumbent Republican senator and beat her badly with an
anti-Washington race.

I think he is best positioned to run against Washington and run
against the problems up here more than anybody else. Whether he not --
whether or not he gets through the process or not -- he's never been
through that vetting process -- I think he's best positioned right now
to do that.

AMANPOUR: A couple of question. How cool is the Tea Party still?
Do they still have the fervor that propelled them to the 2010 midterm
victories? Is that going to last now? Or is -- is it being tempered?

WALTER: Well, I think that clearly the Tea Party element --
whatever we're going to call this -- does have an influence in the -- in
the primary process. And the reality -- I think this is where Rick
Perry fits in, which is he speaks very well to that audience, which is
true. He can do the rabble-rousing. He can do the anti-Washington
thing. But he also has a record in Texas that's about creating jobs and
the economy.

And that is -- I've talked to people who are around sort of the
Romney and Pawlenty camps -- who say, you know, this is what primary
voters are looking for, primary voters. They want to marry the rock
star, Tea Party person with the establishment, somebody who can talk the
language of this election, which is the economy, and that's where Rick
Perry can...

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: So you brought up Jon Huntsman. Let's just take a look
at some of the videos that he's been putting out in anticipation of his
announcement, which is coming up on Tuesday. So there's the motor bike,
there's the great outdoors, there's the wilderness. What do you make of
that?

WEISBERG: Well, I think it's a little bit of scene creation, to be
a man of the people. He's very wealthy. He's a Mormon. He's
originally from Utah, so he's trying to downplay the things that might
be distancing in a Republican primary and play up the things that make
him resonate with ordinary people.

But I think the thing that Huntsman has going for him, really, is
his expertise about the country that's going to have the biggest impact
on America's economic future, namely China. You know, Huntsman speaks
not one, but two Chinese dialects. He's just came back as ambassador.
And, of course, in a Republican primary, everyone says, oh, how
terrible, he worked for Obama. I think he can say plausibly, he didn't
work for Obama, he worked for the United States of America.

AMANPOUR: Leading to that, the whole idea of foreign policy, you
saw what happened on the stage in New Hampshire. The Republicans, who
the world sort of knows as traditional defense, national security hogs,
practically all the candidates there were talking about pulling back
from all their overseas commitments. George, this is a big change --
whether you're a war-lover or not, this is a big change for the party,
particularly for presidential candidates.

WILL: The United States -- the United States is engaged in
hostilities in Iraq, Afghanistan, the tribal region of Pakistan, Yemen,
and Libya. That's five wars. How many do these people want? With
regard to Libya, did Libya attack us? No. Was it about to attack us?
No. Were we obliged by a treaty to get engaged in a civil war, in a
tribal society? No. Were Americans endangered? No. Find me a reason
for this.

AMANPOUR: Well, the reason is the humanitarian reason.

WILL: Well, to say that people are isolationists, akin to those who
didn't want to resist Hitler and the empire of Japan, because they don't
want to prolong the folly of the involvement in Libya is preposterous.
When Ronald Reagan, much quoted, saint of the Republican Party, made a
mistake, as he did in Lebanon, he quickly liquidated it.

AMANPOUR: Do you think that this real admonition from John McCain
to his fellow Republicans on this very issue, is -- how is it going to
play in the Republican race?

WALTER: Well, you know, Romney and the rest of the Republicans
actually have the polling on their side in this case, even among
Republicans. So in a ABC-Washington Post poll, we asked the question,
should the U.S. withdraw a substantial number of troops from
Afghanistan? Seventy-three percent of all Americans said yes, including
59 percent of Republicans.

The tension part -- and this goes back to your question of the Tea
Party versus the conservative -- the other conservative wing of the
party -- Tea Party supporters, identifiers, 63 percent said let's pull
out troops. Only 40 percent -- 48 percent, excuse me, of conservative,
self-identified conservatives agreed with that.

DOWD: But part of the thing -- I think part of the thing is that --
Amy's right that there is a political problem here, and the candidates
understand it, but there's also a budget problem here. When they sit
there and talk about cutting the budget, cutting the budget, cutting the
budget, and they -- they can't say, "Oh, by the way, let's stay in these
five whatever we're calling wars, conflicts, whatever, that are spending
billions and billions of dollars a month." That's the problem.

So pulling back the troops -- and it's not long ago when George Bush
ran for president when he talked about we don't want to nation-build, we
don't want to get in wars of our own choice, we don't want to do that,
and then it became part of the Republican Party. They're just actually
going back to where it was about 10 years ago.

WILL: We...

AMANPOUR: Last word?

WILL: We were engaged in World War II for 1,346 days. We had
reached that point in Afghanistan on June 14, 2005, six years ago.
We've been engaged in Afghanistan now twice as long, more than twice as
long as we were in the Second World War. And to say that this is
somehow disproportionate is not isolationism.

AMANPOUR: This is going to be a debate that rages as we go forth,
particularly about the number of troops that are going to be withdrawn.
And the roundtable will continue in the green room at abcnews.com/thisweek.

And still to come, the Sunday funnies and our very special Father's
Day interview with President Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Perfect day on Father's Day is just spending time with
them. Malia and Sasha are the perfect age, you know, 13, 10. They're
their own people, but they still actually want to spend time with you.
You know, and that may not last that many more years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And now the Sunday funnies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: According to a poll, over 50 percent of viewers thought
that Mitt Romney won this week's presidential debate. They thought Mitt
Romney won, yeah. Romney credits the win to his preparation, his grasp
of the issues, and the good people at Mattel who built him.

(LAUGHTER)

(UNKNOWN): Republicans, if they play this right, they could run
Lassie and win.

COLBERT: Yes, even Lassie could beat Obama. Of course, she'd never
get the Republican nomination. Helping Timmy out of that well is
socialism.

LENO: In more serious news, two U.S. F-15 fighter jets had to
intercept a small civilian plane that flew towards Camp David while
President Obama was there, pretty scary. Turns out it was just someone
completely lost, no idea where they were heading. So apparently the
pilot must have been one of President Obama's economic advisers...

(LAUGHTER)

LENO: Just no idea, just flying every which way, no idea where he's
going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: And when we return, the president is the
commander-in-chief, but his most important job may be dad to two
daughters. An ABC News exclusive with President Obama, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POWELL: Happy Father's Day, Mr. President. The question I have for
you, Mr. President, is what more can we do as a government, but more
importantly as a people to bring the presence of fathers into the lives
of children?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: That was retired general, former Secretary of State Colin
Powell with a question for President Obama this Father's Day. The
president, of course, barely knew his own father. Barack Obama, Sr.,
was largely absent from his son's life.

And ABC's Robin Roberts spoke with the commander-in-chief about what
that experience taught him, and she joins us now.

Robin, those lessons haven't just influenced the president decision
as a father, but to Colin Powell's point, have they also shaped some of
his administration's policies?

ROBERTS: That's a good point. And, yes, they have, Christiane.
You know, President Obama knows firsthand the challenges one can face
growing up without a father in the home and so has established many
fatherhood initiatives, including this year's program, which is called
Strong Father, Strong Families.

And the president really has sparked a national conversation, a
dialogue about fatherhood and taking personal responsibilities. So I
had a chance this week to go to the White House and sit down with the
dad-in-chief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OBAMA: Perfect day on Father's Day is just spending time with
them. The great thing -- and some of this is Malia and Sasha are the
perfect age, you know, 13, 10, where, you know, they are interesting and
funny, and they're their own people, but they still actually want to
spend time with you. You know, and that may not last that many more
years.

And so now, as president, I have this huge advantage. I live over
the store. At 6:30, no matter how busy I am, unless there was an actual
national emergency, at 6:30, I'm up and I'm having dinner with the
kids. And we're sitting around that dinner table. And so for an hour
to an hour-and-a-half, my only focus is them.

ROBERTS: You are about to hit the teenage years.

OBAMA: Oh, yeah.

ROBERTS: Are you ready? Are you prepared for what's about to come?

OBAMA: I could not ask for better kids, and so I'm not anticipating
complete mayhem for the next four or five years. But I understand, you
know, that, you know, teenagehood is complicated.

I should also point out that I have men with guns that surround
them, often. And a great incentive for running for re-election is that
it means they never get in a car with a boy who had a bear. And that's
a pretty good thing. So there are certain elements of these teenage
years in which I will have some relief. And that means I'm going to be
working hard on that re-election campaign.

ROBERTS: Do you approach parenthood differently because you've had
this different background?

OBAMA: You know, a lot of my parenting skills come from thinking
about, you know, what would my mom do in this situation? But,
obviously, it's a little different for me not having had a father. You
know, some of that stuff I had to learn on my own.

The one thing that my mother taught me, but I think is just as
applicable as a father, is a combination of complete and total affection
and devotion to that child, but also structure and limits and
understanding that your child isn't your friend, at least when they're
young. You're the parent. And so you've got to set limits for them.

ROBERTS: Were you aware as a child on Father's Day, "I don't have a
father, he's not here"?

OBAMA: The fact that certain interests that I have, in basketball
or jazz music, came from a one-month visit that I had from my father.
You know, he gave me my first basketball. And it wasn't until I was in
my 20s, and I thought back, "You know, no wonder I've been -- that's
part of why I've been playing basketball this whole time," was it was
that one signal of something that he had given me.

He took me to a Dave Brubeck concert, and suddenly, you know,
shortly thereafter, magically, surprisingly enough, I was interested in
jazz. And -- but as a kid, you don't make that connection. You think
that, you know, you've thought of this all yourself. So -- so that
absence, obviously, was -- was profound. But at the time, when I was
young, I didn't think about it a lot.

On Father's day, it's not so much me thinking about the past, and
it's more thinking about the present, and thinking about now. And there
are times where I'll walk into the room, with Michelle and the girls are
setting there, and they start laughing, and they start teasing me, and
Michelle loves to jump in on that. And I'll be able to pull out of that
moment for a second and say, "OK, this is really good. You know, this
is -- this is important." And you sort of take a snapshot of that
moment. And you say, you know, at the end of your life, when you think
back as to what was worth it, this will be one of the things that's
worth it.

ROBERTS: Happy Father's Day.

OBAMA: Thank you very much.

ROBERTS: Thank you, sir.

OBAMA: That's great.

ROBERTS: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Robin, so many funny and touchy reflections from the
president there, but he really does seem, for obvious reasons, to really
focus so much more on this day as a parent than as a son.

ROBERTS: He really does, Christiane. And we had a little
11-year-old boy pose a question to the president. And the question was,
"Mr. President, do you miss your father on Father's Day?" And president
Obama was like, "No, I don't," and that he, as he said, he focuses on
today, and that is being a father to Sasha and Malia.

AMANPOUR: Thank you so much, Robin. Thanks for joining us.

ROBERTS: Anytime.

AMANPOUR: And when we come back, we will be back with "In Memoriam."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And now, "In Memoriam."

We remember all of those who died in war this week. The Pentagon
released the names of 11 soldiers and Marines killed in Iraq and
Afghanistan.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: That's our program for today. And for all of us here in
Washington, thank you for watching. You can follow me all week on
Twitter, Facebook, and at abcnews.com. And be sure to watch "World
News" with David Muir later tonight.

And we leave you with images of some dads and their children enjoy
themselves here in Washington. Happy Father's Day, and we hope to see
you next week.