I remember not that long ago people were saying we were too big a club to go down. When people on this thread try to have a serious discussion about the state of our club it seems some people seem to think it is more important to point out spelling and grammatical errors, to feel superior and snobby over football with such comments as Wendy ball (where did rugby develop from), or other such irrelevances than the state of Wasps.

The team on paper has the capability but we play on a muddy grass pitch not paper, how many people cheered when Cipriani went? He was getting too big for his boots; anyone would decent kicking boots would suit me. The crowd numbers have dropped, why should people like me who are counting every penny drive all that way, to pay out for mediocre facility's and watch a lack lustre performance with no heart and soul in it, yeah OK there worried about their futures, sorry boys suck it up, that's what the rest of us have to do, but we come to watch you play to take our minds of our insecure jobs, our bills and generally stressed life, rather than have us fleeced with prices such as what £50 for tickets in the Adams stands, that's dearer than some premier football tickets, and yeah I am comparing with the other footie game but even other clubs such as Leicester prices are £34/£47 tops.

To go back to my start, I want us to stay up, it seems to me a more constructive approach needs to be found than all this we have to smile and keep positve, blaming the ref, yes it doesn't help we have so many injuries, retirements and other issues, but in the end somewhere along the way the players, team and supporters have lost faith in the name Wasps, unless this is found then even if we don't go down, we will have come closer than any of us desires, which can lose us support and certainly doesn't encourage new support, and worse new fresh players.

You got some suggestions then, or you just pointing out the obvious? I find it sad there is so much negativity at a time when your team needs your support the most. I have heard a few people saying they are turning their back on club and look to go and support other teams such as Harlequins and Tigers etc. - are these people for real? Those are just glory supporters, who will hop from team to team depending on results, be it 'part-time'. This is not the kinda supporters that Wasps need at a time like this, because we are in this together, after all, once a Wasp, always a Wasp!

Ashley...if people want to support another team, they have every right to.
Just because they change doesn't necessarily make them 'glory' supporters.
Life's too short.

Yes loyalty is good.
But also...if you feel miserable everytime you come away from a game...then you can make the choice not to do that anymore.

Albert Einstein said that the definition of madness was..."doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

Feels a little like being a Wasps fan recently. Something needs to change.

If you want to spend your hard-earnt money going to watch good rugby at another ground that has buzz, entertainment, good fun and good surroundings then do that. It's your choice.

This club has ignored it's fans for far too long.
The marketing, the communications, the service, the direction over the past 15 years has been shocking at times. And I mean really shocking.
You can't blame a few fans wanting to change how they feel at a weekend.

In fact, I lived in Bath a few years back and I went and supported them for a season. I knew a few of the players and really, really enjoyed the whole matchday in that city. It was brilliant.
But when Wasps came to play...wow, I suddenly realised Wasps were always number one and by a mile.
I prefer watching rugby in Bath, but I'll always support Wasps.

All I'm saying is that everyone has a choice.
If you're not enjoying doing something...don't do it.
To continue to do so would be madness....wouldn't it?

So are you suggesting that Wasps merely need lemmings? We should all keep turning up and shelling out and following the club over the precipice without demur?

Your 'glory supporter' accusation seems to be a wild generalisation with little empiric evidence to support it. Why indeed should your input be any more valid than Herbie's?

Surely this board has to be a wide church mirroring the wide range of opinion in the stands at each match and across the keyboard battlefield where some people choose to do their Wasps supporting.

I've supported Wasps for decades - the first match I saw was a 3-11 reverse to Coventry at Sudbury some time in the 70s. Since then I've enjoyed a number of fantastic days, but endured a lot of dross too.

Wasps are in my blood now and I'll keep turning up as I did for the last two Exeter games, Worcester and even flippin Newport Reserves. I've also watched the Leicester, Bayonne and Bordeaux games as well as the narrow reverse v Quins, so have a decent balance to my viewing this season.

What I've seen, for the first time, is not the 'Once a Wasp' strength in adversity that characterised our previous slumps, but groups of players, often thrown together with little time to get to know each other with precious little, if any, plan for getting out of trouble.

I don't blame the players - they're doing their best, but my blood boils at the circumstance that has left Wasps continually trading down, picking up the scraps that others don't want and then attempting to package it behind a club badge that just a few years ago struck fear and admiration across the rest of the rugby world.

Your negativity is my realism. I want the players and others at the club to read the bile and invective; the well-argued criticism and the blind loyalty. I want them to 'get' the passion that abounds in spade loads across a small but hugely committed supporting band. I want them to be moved to action by a genuine fear that this club faces more danger now than just about at any time since 1867.

You may be believe that blind loyalty is the right course. I disagree, but champion your right to do so. I'd rather see the bumps in the road, and just hope that the new owners come in soon and have a plan to turn a very sorry mess around very quickly.

One man's negativity is another man's realism. I can't imagine there are many people on this board who want the club to go down, but there are enough who think that the "It'll all turn out right in the end if we think it will" mentality that some posters have adopted is plain daft.

The "Once a Wasp" thing, on the playing field anyway, is dead, It's gone. It's been relaced by "A Wasp until contract renewal talks start". That's the professional game. For whatever reason - injuries, retirements, loss of form - we have a squad half-full of strangers. They come, they'll go, they won't be remembered.

JF... I agree that the once a wasp attitude has gone missing, but that has been slowly dying for some time.

The club were dreadful negotiators in their prime and treated players pretty badly in contract negotiations, not regarding salaries, but in the manner they were conducted.

Depsite that players desperately wanted to play for the club that they loved for the values that they held.

I think that all ex players who played for some time will still feel that Once a wasp, always a wasps still rings true to them, and I am sure that many of them are as hurt or more than supporters when the see the state of the club!

Oh dear the doomongers are out in force again. I really do not know how anyone can call themselves a Wasp supporter and then suggest that they might go off and watch Leicester or some other team....they quite simply are NOT a Wasp fan. I could not support any other team...''once a Wasp always a Wasp'' runs through my veins oh and by the way for the umpteenth time Wasps are not going down !!
I know there is desperation out there and I am certain people are saying things they probably don't really mean but more likely feel instead...have faith guys it will come good.

But, as with all things in life...there are shades of everything.
There can be fans of Wasps who want to watch other rugby sides and experince other grounds.
They may just be a 100% fan of flowing rugby and 40% fan of Wasps. They are still a fan of Wasps...but occassionally they may like to go and quench their rugby thirst elsewhere.

This world is made up of allsorts. And everyone has different motivations for going along to a match, be that to follow the team, to enjoy good rugby, for the entertainment on the day, for the social aspect, the beers, the food or for catching up with family. There are plenty of reasons.
Not everyone has to fit into '100% die-hard fan' or no fan at all.
You may see the world in black and white, but that doesn't mean others have to too.
Life is precious...so do what makes you most happy.

Mike Godwin has made me laugh on occasion - so perhaps there's a not-so-subtle reverse-Godwinism going on here. Chamberlain clung faith-like to his sincerely held beliefs long after the evidence had passed the tipping point.

Route 66 appears to have that same optimism in the face of overwhelming counter-evidence.

This is what I mean when starting this thread I wanted to discuss how us as fans are ignored and have a serious debate about the state of the club creating fears and concerns to us LOYAL fans. But silly excuses like players feeling insecure (on another thread), blind loyalty (I like the Chamberlain analogy) is ignoring the reality that we could go down and where does that leave the club? In this difficult financial time can you expect people to shell out continually under these circumstances and not to face that is naive at best and downright offensive at worse if going to through the "Once a Wasp, Always a Wasp", well some of us are not as financially buoyant as others.

Yes you do have to pay £50 to sit in the AP stand, so if a friend wants to sit in the same block as my SEASON TICKET then that is the price they have to pay.

Route 66 I was merely comparing prices, not that hard to check you just click on your mouse and hey presto can link up to ticket prices for other clubs, I thought the supporters of rugby where of a higher intellectual calibre the way many of you mock other sports, this does not in any way say I am off to watch another team and wonder how any of you have taken it upon your selves to read that from my thread.

Thanks P Ris Mark some sane comments more in line what I wanted, serious debate on the issue.

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