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TrueSatan writes "Bloomberg reports that Apple and Google have partnered to make a bid of more than $500 million for the Kodak patent portfolio. The bid relates to Kodak's 1,100 imaging patents. 'Kodak obtained commitments for $830 million exit financing last month, contingent on its sale of the digital imaging patents for at least $500 million.' This is likely to be an opening bid, with the final figure being far larger. By comparison, a group including Apple, Microsoft, and RIM bought Nortel's 6000+ patents for $4.5 billion last year. 'Google lost the auction for those patents after making an initial offer of $900 million.'"

Someone manages to get a huge long first post. That post repeats the standard Microsoft / Facebook trolling line that Google has gone downhill. That post SHOUTS and SCREAMS. The post mentions privacy violation without mentioning Facebook, about the only company willing to sell on fully identifiable material about any user on to almost anybody who signs up as a "developer".

Worst of all, the job of the "Troll" is to hijack the conversation and direct it elsewhere. In my case back to the topic on hand. We are discussing about which company has the worst privacy record which is completely offtopic; you are discussing meta issues as old as the hills (I am sure there one early comment on Slashdot: "Slashdot has gone downhill since comments started started last week"). Why aren't we discussing:

Why the hell are Google being forced to spend money on supporting Lawyers and the legal system instead of putting that money into development and "innovation"?

Are these legitimate patents on a real "inventions" or are they unconstitutional and illegal attempts to control freedom of thought and expression by using the USPTO to circumvent the first amendment and the US constitutions restrictions on patenting mathematics?

Is it just software patents that are broken, or is has the entire patent system become outdated? Is this maybe an example of the patent system working to protect the Kodak pensioners? Do you deserve money if your company fails to put it's invention out to real customers?

Have a look in the history of every article in the last year which matches the string "Google". You will find that either as first post, or very soon afterwards there is a post which puts up lines like "Google is the worst privacy violator" "Google has become worse than Microsoft" etc. etc. In response to those posts will be many posts which completely refute your points. This has been repeated so often it's not funny. I have even posted in some of those discussions myself. For us to repeat those discu

Do you think that now that Google has teamed up with Apple it is a sign that they want to join Apple's attacks on competitors? Maybe instead you think that this is a sign that Apple has come to its senses and realised that Microsoft is still a threat to our chances of a standardised mixed computing environment where Google just wants that system to exist so they can continue to have a chance to provide search and advertising?

Since you asked, I would answer "yes" to both questions since they are not mutually exclusive.

Also if you look at the OPs list of comments, there is just this single comment - the account was obviously set up for just this one article. A normal commenter will post often and on a wide range of subjects.

This discussion thread was about the accusation that Google is "the web's LARGEST PRIVACY VIOLATION" and that we "SUPPORT THEM?"

Google is a pioneer of techniques, a number of them patented, which allow them to hold data about you whilst ensuring that it is anonymized even to their own employees, let alone to outside advertising agencies.

Facebook, on the other hand, directly shares your full profile including your PII with it's partners in advertising and apps. That clearly makes them a larger "PRIVACY VIOLATION" than Google and makes them 100% on topic in this particular thread which has, for some reason, been voted up extremely high.

I wonder if the reason that Facebook vilolates privacy so much more strongly than Google is because they fear Google's patents? That would be strange when Google never initiated patent action against anyone yet. Maybe it's because that's a missing element in Microsoft's portfolio and that's what attracted Microsoft to invest so heavily in Facebook? Do you think Google's increasing patent portfolio will increase or decrease privacy on the internet?

It's ok that Google and Apple are being patent trolls, and anti-privacy because "other companies are doing it too!"

Excellent logic there. Google isn't going downhill, but their ethics sort of are. Their dive hasn't been as steep as Apple's though, I will grant them that...but when ethically Microsoft is probably one of the best among the tech giants...something is wrong.

I'm ordinarily the last one to defend Apple, but you clearly have no idea what a "patent troll" actually is. I abhor their use of dubious patents as a way to oppress any and all competition, but they do actually produce a product. Any if Google has been busy suing competitors, I haven't been hearing about it.

Google also has secretive deals with NSA, CSI and FBI. They have gongressman that are willing to step in for them. They played their way in to all the government agencies.

I'd also add that this is the only company that I know of that *does* provide a summary of the requests they've got from government agencies and how many they complied with. They're not the only one that gets the requests.

How about;

Microsoft and Apple, the two companies that don't leak all your stuff all over the internet!

I'm not completely sure, but I'm pretty sure both of those companies have had more security problems with personal information than Google. Overall though, all three have a decent record with personal information as corporations go. Their general behaviour is a differen

I actually do generally use Ubuntu, but using KDE rather than Unity. Admittedly this is more because of Unity than privacy problems. Still, with Unity you know the privacy violation is happening and can disable it through a simple setting. Microsoft (back in the Vista days at least) was quietly sending things from your machine to them without announcing it in any way, and without any benefit to the users. I actually originally started looking at the behaviour because I thought it was a virus.

Sometimes it's not so bad... I like when people share their opinions on products, both good and bad. The important part though, is that they're products. They're not a religion, and if you blindly defend their faults, you're treating them like they are. It's not a personal insult if someone doesn't agree with you. Also, these companies are not going to be as likely to correct bad behaviour if people keep blindly defending them and throwing money at them, even if you don't like the way they're behaving..

High UID brand new account, anti-Google, pro-Microsoft, long first post, no other posting history shill is back again.

I guess Microsoft started paying for their subscription to Fuckface & Wankhead or whatever that PR agency is called.

Or maybe Florian Mueller is doing a bit of shilling on the side now that the mainstream press seems to have finally realised he's wrong about just about everything since 99% of the patent claims against Android would successfully win against Android, and, er, didn't. Hard times to be a shill I guess now that the world has woken up to the FUD.

As others have commented, this is *your* first ever post- under this account anyway- *and* the first post in the thread.

I can't understand why you people defend Google on Slashdot.

As I've commented before, it was undeniably true that Slashdotters were very pro-Google and uncritical. The emphasis being on *was*, as this hasn't been the case for several years now. Not that they haven't got their uncritical fans, but it's no longer an obvious consensus. I'll note that you've actually been modded to +5 now.

Why don't you run down to your local electronics outlet. Or, Newegg, if you prefer. Grab one of the newer Netgear routers. Bring it home, and flash it with a generic Tomato firmware. Then, flash it again, with Toastman's flavored Tomato. In the startup scripts, you can tell the router to download an adblocking list, at boot up, then every xxx number of hours afterward.

I use a lot of Google services. But, google's tracking servers are blocked. Google's ads

They have really lost their old ways. Before Google was the simple web search company. You used them to find things and that was it. Now they're just trying to grab even larger market share buy playing games with Android.
I know a thing or two about search that people either Google or Bing won't tell you. Google is mostly trying to sleaze their hidden tracking and platforms to play the big game. They know they need this tracking to further their services. Not their search service but their ad service. It has been getting more intrusive all the time and it's about time we do something about it.
You know what's the newest role in this? Their "AdChoices" tracking platform. Not only are you now served ads on a single page but they actually follow you around! Whatever I've searched for on Google is now advertised me on Slashdot and all the different websites I go to!
Google also has secretive deals with NSA, CSI and FBI. They have gongressman that are willing to step in for them. They played their way in to all the government agencies. They have absolutely no shame in doing this. They've started to play around with patents and are using every possible way they can do further their own goal.
I can't understand why you people defend Google on Slashdot. Yes they might use open source but only because it suits their model better! They don't care about your privacy and in fact they're largely the reason why you're losing it. Yes they're mostly free services but only because it's fueled by HUGE, and I mean HUGE, tracking platforms that sends EVERYTHING you do to Google. They are single handedly the web's LARGEST PRIVACY VIOLATION AND YOU SUPPORT THEM?
Hell, at least with Microsoft and PAID software I know I'm not losing my privacy. You might not care about your own privacy but I still do. And who will Google use it's new patent portfolio against? Microsoft and Apple, the two companies that don't leak all your stuff all over the internet!

Can I sort for the highest Troll scores? It seems that that is the only way to see something useful here! Really, a thread like this gets a troll?

What competitors? They are only competing with each other. RIM and Microsoft are not competition at this point. Apple and Google teaming up on this is actually the best possible thing that can happen.

Let me put this in historical terms:

It's kind of like the earliest treaties between the USSR and USA regarding nuclear weapons. Sure, China/England/France had some nukes, but either superpower could have swatted those three down without an issue. Those early treaties weren't very substantial, and covered v

What competitors? They are only competing with each other. RIM and Microsoft are not competition at this point.

Ignoring the cold war Analogy [its best to]. Rim and Nokiasoft, may not be in competition, but that is when they are most problematic to those that are. Like....Kodak was litigious during its dying days. Nokia and Microsoft have formed a Patent troll company, just to attack [Microsofts usual bride; bully tactics] the more successful companies. In fact Microsoft have been bragging about its solitary troll dealing, Apple *pay* Nokia for their patents. You are arguing that Apple & Google preserving their c

Kodak Moments - soon to be stored in Picasa and iCloud at the mercy of the owners. Regular Moments free and Premium Moments start at $0.99. (Terms of service: Images are automatically categorized as Regular or Premium.)

It's too bad the cash from this patent selloff won't likely be seen in the local economy of Rochester, NY, Kodak's home town. We've pretty much given up completely on the once largest local employer. Too many of my friends have long since had severance packages run out. She's not sinking, rather she's already resting on the bottom of the ocean flapping a bit.

I wonder what is actually in the patent portfolio that Google and Apple can sue each other over in 5 years.

We've pretty much given up completely on the once largest local employer. [..] She's not sinking, rather she's already resting on the bottom of the ocean flapping a bit.

Yes- unfortunately, Kodak is quite clearly doomed at this point. It's now far too late for them to reinvent themselves as Fujifilm did. They've already been selling off their assets (including patents) for a while, and continuing to do so will ensure their short-term survival for a bit longer. Of course, this basically dooms them in the long term.

But even if Kodak survives, the basic problem is that there's probably no real reason for a company to exist in Kodak's present form- I'm guessing it's going to

The only reason a patent can be sold during a bankruptcy is because the patent is recorded as an asset on the books. (yet "goodwill" can also be valued as an asset but cannot be sold...)

The original purpose of patents was to publicly record trade secrets so that they would not be lost to future generations. If a company goes bankrupt, shouldn't their limited monopoly be opened to the public?

Not quite. If a company sells a trademark, the "goodwill" value goes largely away. Look at GE: Way back in time, it was one of the big names in electronics. Once the name was sold to a chinese company, the value of the brand went to nothing...

As an aside, when you bought something at the Goodwill store, I would argue that you gave goodwill, rather than bought it;~)

Imagine an investment of 500 Million into Libreoffice development. Imagine 50 Million for Wine. That would make a real difference. The patent system is like a parasitarian economy created on top of the markets. It should be abolished. But we won't get 5 million $ for patent reformists.

As everything else that turned evil (Big Brother, Apartheid, international law, stocks), the original idea was dutch. Octroois were designed to make a design public, registered to the owner, so others could implement it AND pay for it. The idea was NOT to give a company a monopoly on an idea, the goal was the EXACT opposite. That the idea of ONE man could be used by anyone BUT they had to pay for it.

It started because people invented novel ways for water management were it was obvious the ideas belonged to

I can understand Kodak owning some patents for digital imaging, but 1100? Are there really 1100 different ways of doing digital imaging, or just 1100 obvious ways of combining seven novel ideas?

Honestly? Without having looked into it, I'm willing to bet that quite a lot of those patents are legitimate old-style "proper" patents on real worthwhile things that Slashdotters would approve of. Bear in mind that Kodak did quite a lot of research into this, and probably came up with a lot of stuff, they just never commercialised it successfully.

Of course, these patents may be being bought and used for "bad" reasons, but that doesn't mean they were crappy patents in the first place.

Are there really 1100 different ways of doing digital imaging, or just 1100 obvious ways of combining seven novel ideas?

Do you genuinely believe that there are only seven truly patentable ideas in digital imaging?

I thought the patent system was supposed to provide a company with a legally protected monopoly for a period of time in exchange with the invention being published so others could benefit from it and advance the state of the art.

that ban the sale or trade of patents. patents were designed to help individuals and now they are just corporate lawsuit tools to go after anyone for anything stupid. if you could not buy patents then when a company goes under all their patents go into the open domain and new companies could profit from using them as well as old

There are going to be a lot of patents that neither Apple or Google really care about in that portfolio, but people in film photography might. First and foremost in my mind is the proprietary dyes used in processing Kodachrome film, which Kodak stopped manufacturing years ago, and the last processor, Dwayne's Photo in Kansas stopped processing at the end of 2010. It would sure be *not evil* to release these formulas to the public, and perhaps we could see something like the group who reproduced polaroid fil

I'm not sure you know what *evil* is. I suspect if either companies have patents that do not cover their [future] products, they can *sell* them, or *license* them, or use them as a bargaining tool etc etc. to make money back from the purchase.