Thursday, June 12, 2008

Bug off!

I was reading a blog post yesterday about those inevitable rude questions that newlyweds face about when they're going to have kids, and I wish I could remember whose blog it was so I could link to it, but I don't, so if it was you, please say so in the comments.

Anyway, it got me thinking about OTHER rude comments people make that are totally thoughtless, and while I'm sure I could write a whole book on the subject, and everyone else probably could too, I'm going to restrict myself to talking about getting married.

I was struck by this the other day in a group setting when some people were discussing who in the group might be the next to get married after me. People were listing mostly women when one person suggested that it might be a guy who is very serious with his girlfriend. Immediately, a married man in the group said to the guy in question, "Don't do it! Hold out for as long as you can!"

I hear this shit ALL THE TIME. "Is your fiancé ready to jump off a bridge every time you talk about the wedding?" "The wedding is coming up--your fiancé must be savoring his last few months of freedom!" "You got engaged after only a year together? What did you slip in his drink to get him to propose?" Hardy har fucking har. How about the next time you find out that someone you know is engaged, you limit your commentary to something along the lines of, "Congratulations. When's the wedding?"

This is SUCH a male thing. It is always assumed that I was some overzealous bridezilla type who pressured my fiancé into proposing, then whipped out my wedding binder and planned an over-the-top affair without any input from him. It is always assumed that he is trapped in this situation because he doesn't know better, and he should take it from someone who knows--this marriage thing isn't all it's cracked up to be! In ten years you'll have a beer belly and your wife will be a nag! Your life is over the second you say I do!

I used to try to answer back. I would say, "Actually, he wanted to propose earlier, but I didn't feel ready yet." "Actually, he told me that he can't wait for the wedding because he's really looking forward to being married. He's excited to get to wear a wedding ring." "Actually, he has very strong ideas about a lot of aspects of the wedding--and no, not just the food and the music." "Actually, SCREW YOU."

But when I say things that are, in my mind, a defense of Torsten's attitude toward our marriage, the morons who make these comments in the first place look incredulous--and also slightly disgusted. Like, what kind of guy WANTS to be married? What kind of guy DOESN'T like to talk shit about his future wife? What the hell is WRONG with this guy, right?

Listen, I'm sorry that my fiancé actually wants to marry me. Too bad for you that your marriage sucks and you are looking at your past through rose-colored lenses, as though you could ever really GET all those girls that you're dreaming of now. I know that married life isn't perfect for anyone. But with Torsten, it's going to be pretty damn great. And we are both looking forward to it. So please, buddy, keep your marital issues to yourself, and stop taking them out on us.

So, what inappropriate comments from acquaintances are irking YOU these days?

77 comments:

I really wish people would learn to mind their own business. When I was faced with such rude people before I got married I'd just say something snarky and they'd get the "oh shit I offended you look" and I'd automatically call them out and say "Yes, you did offend me, mind your own damn business."

I just found you today via Swistle and it was a perfect day for me to read your blog! I am recently engaged and even more recently chose a date for my wedding - more then a year and a half away. Every single person I have told my date too has said "woooooooow, that's far" or "ooh long long engagement" or "you're going to be so sick of your wedding by the time you get married" ... how RUDE! I just wish one person would say something nice about the date we chose!

A coworker gave me a couple good responses to people when asked "Why are you waiting so long??!" -- 1) "That's just the date we're telling people we dont want to invite." or 2) "I just wanted to give myself enough time in case I wanted to back out."

That sucks! I think you should give one of your answers, then it will teach them to mind their own business. Inappropriate comments? I have a friend who is unable to have kids right now and she's been married 4 years which is apparently fodder for every to ask, "Why don't you have kids yet?" Its just rude!

We heard it ALL ... and most of the things that you heard in reference to Conrad and a few comments about how expensive the wedding was probably going to be and how expensive *I* was going to be ...

But Conrad always handled them. He always quickly answered with the wedding plan and a HINT as to how much is cost (CHEAP!) and talked about how beautiful our house is - decorated in garage sale and flea market finds. That usually shut them up and made them a little bit jealous!

We got something similar about having kids afer we got married. A bunch of BR's work buddies were teasing him, all "So, is your wife riding your ass about having kids already?". And he kept saying, "No, actually, *I* am the one pressuring HER about kids".

"Wow. you must be hot." -- since it's been in the high 80s here. thanks for stating the obvious.

"do you have any names picked out?" -- yes and we're not sharing. so stop asking.

the one i got before i was married/as a newlywed was "when are you going to have kids?" i got so annoyed with this one -- like that's the reason you get married -- i always answered "When we're ready."

Ugh, it really is so true. Now that i am rapidly approaching my date people are doing the "OHH ITS GETTING CLOSE" stuff, and I hate that. I hate unwarranted opinions. I am not looking forward to coming back from my honeymoon and people prodding about babies. OH lordy

Well said, hon! I heard a lot of those things too, as Jon and I got engaged after 15 months of dating. Now that we've been married for almost 2 years, we are totally getting the baby hints. Both mothers love to mention how we'll have built in babysitters if we live near them. Gee, thanks!

We've been married three years and plan to have kids in the next couple of years, which we're both really excited for (although not excited enough to have a kid right this very moment) and I'm totally sick of people saying things like "TREASURE THIS TIME YOU HAVE NOW" and "Come over and watch my kids - it'll be great birth control."

Guess what? I like kids. That's why I want some. And I know to "treasure this time" because, hello, that's why we didn't get pregnant the moment we got married.

It's frankly even more annoying to me than the people who are all pushy about when we're going to have kids (my mother-in-law said that up to five years was too long to wait to have kids, but fortunately she's never said anything again since we've been married, which I appreciate).

Sometimes, of course, people are just kind of innocently clueless or genuinely well intentioned, but don't know your sensitivities (like when they ask pregnant women about names--it seems like a safe topic!), but joking about how your fiance must be dreading the wedding? That's stupid, rude, and suggests sad things about their own relationships. They're the ones with problems.

People ask us when we're going to get engaged "already" all the time!!! It's like PEOPLE - we've been dating a year and a half (this past tuesday), and living together for 3 months. Give me a break!! It'll happen when it happens!!!

You tell em'. I can feel the angry heat coming off of this post. I don't know why people can't just be and let be. Not all things are ideal for all people. Not all situations are handled the same by everyone. We are not a cookie cutter society.

GAH. I got this ALL THE TIME when we were engaged. Unfortunately, it never stops. People always feel the need to make stereotype based commentary about whatever is going on in your life. It drives me nuts, especially since Aaron is the more mushy sentimental one in our relationship. We get the baby stuff all the time, even though it is WELL DOCUMENTED how I feel about having kids. I also get stuff about being a kept woman because Aaron makes so much more money than I do. HELLO. I am also an attorney, maybe for the government, but I don't sit on my ass eating candy and watching Oprah all day. And if I wanted to and Aaron was okay with that, it's really our problem, isn't it????!!!!!?!?!?!?!?

I feel sorry for the women these assholes are married to. Maybe they think they are "supposed" to act that way but really, if I heard my husband/fiance/boyfriend say such things I would consider why I wanted to be serious with him in the first place.

The thing that irked me yesterday was when my boss asked, "What are you doing on Saturday?"

That answer to that question is always: "Oh I am so busy!" Because I do NOT want to work on the weekend.

With the recent supreme court decision in California people who barely qualify as acquaintances (ok, a few of my honey's co-workers) have taken to asking when we are going to California to get married. What, you know of one lesbian couple, and since we are both women we must both be dying to get married so much that we'll fly down to CA just to get a marriage license & have a ceremony that won't actually provide us with any of the legal rights provided by marriage unless we move to California. I don't walk into their workplace and ask them when their boyfriends are going to be popping the question, so stop asking about if and when we are going to get married simply for the sake of having a ceremony. If you are really interested in the issue, start working on behalf of marriage equality in the state we all actually live in.

Sorry, that was a really long-winded way of saying that my response to that is "nosy much?"

or maybe when they're like "OOOH you must have FORCED him to propose!" just stop and look genuinely confused, and go "well... no... he actually LOVES me...?" to imply that maybe they should have married someone THEY loved too.

What's sad is I actually know a few women who have helped to perpetuate those sort of stereotypes... women who pressured their man into engagement or marriage and nag them relentlessly there on out. I don't know any men who've done the same. Stereotypes come from *somewhere*, obviously, but it's sad that more people don't recognize it's not entirely the norm.

Add to that annoyance all the women I overhear at work or in the gym locker room complaining about their no-good husbands. Is he really so awful? I doubt it. It's like complaining about men is just an accepted formulaic small talk topic, on par with mindless commenting about the weather or expressing the relief that it is Friday, etc.

Man, some people just suck at life. I think most single guys, even though the rarely admit it, want a steady relationship with a girl who will always be by their side. It's nice to have someone to come home to and to not have to worry about "chasing tail" at the bar all the time.

And the married guy at your office obviously made the wrong decision if he is so unhappy. Or maybe he just sucks and his wife dislikes him because of his crappy attitude.

The comments about Torsten would piss me off, big time. But, honestly, I think I've probably made similar comments during my years of wedding planning. It's true, very rarely are grooms involved and interested in their wedding. It is sad.

The questions... I try to remind myself that the person is trying to be conversational an interested and they aren't trying to be jerks. Sometimes it's really hard to keep myself from smacking people. For me, I think it's because I'm super sensitive about not being in a relationship. When people ask me if there's someone special or if I'm going to be getting married soon, it hits a little too close to home.

We are getting a lot of baby hints. And a couple of not so subtle comments, like (with a concerned cluck and shake of the head,) "oh, are you one of those who is going to try to put your career first? Because you're not that young, you don't want to wait too long..."

We were at the Farm Market and my BF got in line to pay. I said, are you sure that is the back of the line? [tons of people were milling about, so I wasn't sure]He looked around and said he was pretty sure. Then a middle-aged d-bag said, "I thought men moved away from home to get away from their mothers."

After being together a while, I answered the "so when are you getting married?" questions with "never, that way people won't start asking the rude, 'so when are you having kids?' question." Then we actually got engaged and moved in together, and his mother started saying how we should be having kids already.

When she found out we were pregnant after five years, she said, "It's about time!" Like we were holding off just to spite her. What she didn't know was that we started trying after 3 years, so for 2 years I wanted to do very bad things to her every time she brought it up. Come to think of it, I still want to do bad things to her every time we talk about babies. She's still rude.

I hear you! Our line is "Babies are not in the 5 year plan." That shuts people up.

When we went to the courthouse to get our marriage license, the screener said "Oh MAN, you're getting MARRIED" like it was the worst thing in the world, and the cleaner who pressed my dress also said something rude as well. SO SORRY if you have a miserable relationship, but WE DON'T. I have never been more in love than I am now that we are married. Come up with some rude retort, like "I'm sorry you have to be jealous of people who are happy and love each other, that must be hard for you."

Even if other people are pissy, I'M happy for you :) Marriage is fantastic!

As you know, AS and I are not engaged, but we are very committed to and open about a future together. So, once in a while, we'll be with friends and I'll say something like, "Well, we hope that AS will be able to move to Chicago because that's where we'd like to end up."

People (mostly guys) like to respond, "Whoa, AS, she's really putting the pressure on to get engaged." AS always laughs it off, but I'm like -No. Shockingly, AS is totally committed to me and our future OF HIS OWN FREE WILL. Just because we have plans for the future does not mean the "pressure is on." Ugh.

'Oh my gosh! What!? You're daughter is about to turn one and you're STILL breastfeeding?! Aren't you sick of it already?'Argh! Yes I AM and yes, I AM but I *gasp* love my daughter so I'm trying to do what's best for her.I try to be gracious though...sometimes people are just trying to make conversation....and sometimes they suck at it. :)

This is one of the things that annoys me most about our society. While people are finally starting to understand that sometimes women don't want to get married as soon as they graduate from high school, the social standard is still to encourage women to get married as soon as possible while at the same time telling men that they are better off never getting married and to hold out for as long as they can. How the hell is this fair?

For some reason we were mostly spared the annoying marraige questions - I think mostly because TM doesn't have many male friends (he moved a lot as a kid and never had a chance to develope strong bonds with any of his peers). BUT, our upstairs neightbor refused to refer to him as anything but my "friend" until we were married and that drove me CRAZY.

Oooooh, girl, I echo you 100% on this one. Sweets proposed after a year, which isn't such a huge deal given we're in our 30's (which means, we must be in a rush to marry so we can start making babies - bad assumption, people!).

Sweets has come to every single meeting I've had with vendors. And every single vendor says something along the lines of, he's a pretty great guy for coming along for the ride. Insinuating I made him. Um, excuse me, but he actually wants to be here. I give him an out every time if he doesn't want to go. But, here he is.

I think it's less of a reflexion of me or Sweets or our relationship and more a reflection of that person's experiences. So, I take it in stride knowing we're a fun-loving couple when others clearly aren't!

This parallels a conversation I had with my husband a few weeks ago. We were married less than 6 months after we met face to face. Yes, a whirlwind courtship! Someone had asked him if I pressured him into marriage and he told them "I would have married her 15 minutes after I met her if I thought she would have done it!"

Anyhow, I don't think people are being purposely rude - most of the time they're just thoughtless and don't realize the ramifications of what just slipped out of their mouth. And frankly, I don't think most of them even mean it - they think they're supposed to do/say/act certain ways and things, you know, the "good ol' boys club" type stuff.

My friend has a great way of handling things of this sort. When someone says something rude she asks them "Does it hurt much?" And when they ask "Does what hurt?" she responds with "Being that small-minded. Does it hurt much?" ALWAYS stops them in their tracks.

Oh my goodness, Yes! All the time. Tony and I were actually dating for well over two years before we got engaged and that was in October and we still haven't really planned a damned thing, but that's my fault. He has already set a date or whereabouts (September or October 2009), has decided he would prefer to get married on a boat with a semi-casual wedding, and wants a live four piece band, OH and would prefer to be married by a captain, because he is insane. Mostly I don't care, I just want to wait until I figure out where I'm going to work since I'm unemployed in September, so I know how much we can actually do and afford.

That isn't to say we don't joke about it, and he plays along just fine with the whole ball and chain routine, but it is so clear to everyone who asks us when we're both together who is the driving force behind the actual wedding part of the eventual marriage. And that isn't me. In fact, if it were just me, we would just head on down to City Hall, but it's important to him and therefore also important to me.

i totally agree with you. we went to a club for my bachelorette party, and i had guys coming up to me all night saying, "don't get married! marriage is awful!" it really pissed me off and ruined the mood for my party.

Amen, sista. Amen. I HATE the negativity about marriage. It's not the end of anything, but more the beginning of a new chapter together. Committing to a lifetime is a huge deal, so freakin' beautiful, it makes me want to cry sometimes.

There's a car in my condo complex with a relatively new bumper sticker that says "The #1 cause of divorce is MARRIAGE" I want to key that car. But won't. Instead I'll twirl around the parking lot with my husband, laughing and holding hands and maybe playing a little ass grab too.

That's not just these days though. I have pretty dark circles around my eyes, just genetically I guess. I hate when people as if I got enough sleep. It's like saying "you look bad, did you know?" especially because I sleep WAY more than most people.

I think in this, there are two groups of men - the men who think being married is a ball and chain, and the men that want/like being married but feel they need to make stupid comments in order to fit into the married man stereo type (you know, oh what a horrible thing it is to be married) It's almost like a defense machinism for men, which I find riduclous.

Of course I'm sure there are men out there that don't fit into either of these categories, I'm just pointing it out as a majority.

These sorts of comments are so insulting, they may as well come out and say "well, why would he want to marry you?" I mean, wtf! FUCK YOU ASSHOLE! I'm so angry for you!

Ridiculous questions I hate in regards to married is being un-engaged, going to a wedding and being asked "So when are you two getting married?" Oh yeqah, thanks buddy! Way to scare my boyfriend off even more! Yeah, how about you pressure him, yeah go on, I'm not pressuring him, so you fucken might as well so there will be absolutely no possibility of me ever getting married! GAH!!!!!!

The fact that guys make so many comments like this is proof of how lucky you are to have Torsten. He is obviously mature enough to speak his true feelings and not care what others think or cave to societal pressure of what the (immature) man is "supposed" to say. I wish as a society we could get past this crap and just speak our minds and all be ok with it. Seriously, grow up folks!

jesus people, calm the f down. things like this only annoy you if you let them. sometimes yes, people are idiots-- this is not news. let them be. other times, people are interested in your life and just dont know how to show is appropriately, so they ask about possibly baby names before you're ready to talk about it. that's not rude-- it might be a little to personal, but its well-intentioned. chill a little.

OMG, I got a lot of that. A LOT. And you know, now, as a married person, I am oddly compelled to dispense advice only in the form of, "Congratulations! Marriage is great, and you're going to love it!"

Also, to Kristen, I would say that I often ask expecting couples if they have any names picked out as a way to make conversation. I'm not asking so they'll tell me -- quite frankly, I totally understand that they won't.

I mean, let's be honest: questions are good. It shows that people are interested in you, and they're trying to relate and talk to you about it. Same to the person who said they were irked by, "If you guys decide to have kids... but if you don't that's okay!" I mean, what else would you have people say?

Eh. It's funny, reading this I was struck by how things I may have asked out of mere politeness would be taken as rudeness by others. I think making sweeping generalizations and rude comments is one thing, asking polite questions and TRYING to do the right thing is another.

I think Ryan got the ribbing about getting married...hey he CHOSE to propose to me and we already knew we were together for the long haul long before that.

The moment we got married people started asking us about having babies and I'd just say to them, "Given that having children is going to be difficult for us, I find it really uncomfortable when people ask when we are having children" and that person and any mutual friends never asked us again. I think it was my way of reflecting my discomfort at being asked back onto them for asking if that makes sense? We've been married two years and now that we havent popped kids out, the message is finally getting through!

this was a great rant. i could hear your voice just zinging across the screen!

i hate HATE hate teasing comments from people at work asking if i asked MY MOTHER to go out, or stay late, etc etc. UMMMM just because I LIVE at home and listen to my parents DOESN'T MEAN I have to ask their PERMISSION to do shit!!!

My favorite--and I'm beginning to think this is unique just to GLBT folks is--"Oh, are you still together?" That irks me to no end. More than that, it's a sad social commentary on people's attitudes about the sticking power of "alternative" (another term I hate) relationships.

My partner and I have been together for nearly seven years. It hasn't always been easy or rose-colored, but we've got sticking power and, yes, morons, we're still together!

Amen, my dear.I hate hate hate how guys call even their friends live in girlfriends "the old ball and chain".

A few months ago, I told my boss about the fact that the woman we were going to rent an apartment from decided to sell at the last minute instead. He said "Are you sure your boyfriend didn't call her and tell her to back out of the deal?"(because we were just moving in together)

I think "men" do this as some sort of machismo-ridden defense. Because masculinity is defined in the negative, (i.e. masculine = not feminine) I think "men" do this to appear manly. Because women are supposed to be interested in weddings and being married, then men have to automatically NOT be interested in such things or their manhood gets called into question. Dorks. Funny how that doesn't mesh with real life, eh?

Hey, I didn't make the rules. Boys who say stupid stuff like this are jerks with a lack of brain cells. Thus endeth my feminist take on the mean comments. The end.

Ack! I'm single and those kinds of comments make me want to poke someone in the eye. To me it's up there with the jokes about men tricking wives/girlfriends into having sex or women coming up with excuses to avoid the deed. I know a lot more women than men who feel like they don't get it often enough and am sick to death of the stereotype.

Worst question ever came from a family member more than a decade ago: "So BS, your girl cousin is going to Princeton and your boy cousin is going to Cornell. Which Ivy will you be attending?"

I'm having a caesarean on Thursday for some very specific and necessary medical reasons and if I hear my next door neighbour say one more time that she gave birth naturally "so why can't [I]?" (because, you know, surely every birth story must be either identical to hers or WRONG, after all) or that it's the "lazy option" I will f*cking kill her.

Hope the comments re Torsten ease up, I can only imagine how annoying they must be.Heather-in-Australia :)

Amen. This is one of the biggest stereotypes that I hate - that all married men are unhappy. I don't think it's true at all. Why is it okay for men to talk shit and bitch about their wives? My husband tells me his friends do at work. Of course, I ask if he does as well, and he says no ("you work and aren't lazy, why would I complain?") but I know how easy it is to pitch in when everyone is complaining about something!

I hated the way I felt that I had to avoid the subject of when and how my fiance proposed to me.

We had actually only known each other six weeks when he proposed and we got married ten months after that.

I loved being married to him for all of the 17 years that we were and count my marriage a success, regardless of the eventual outcome. He would actually say that too, so to hell with the all of the time counters and analysers. You know, or you think you know, from early on and you should make the most of every damn minute.