Tung Wrote:Helping newbies is a great thing, once again props, frankly.

I just think we have different views on the subject, but contrary to me you do commit into teaching stuff in a formal way, whereas what i do is generally help beginners in my own corp (we have some, not day-old newbs ofc, i believe we are the only corp in NC. to have no strict prerequisites in terms of SP or kills). I believe that Eve-Uni and Agony also teach pvp in a different way, yet they do commit a little bit more, from what i’ve seen at least.

About the hotdrop, it’s a natural consequence of your playstyle, and i think you live with it: since you don’t really fight but rather gank, it’s a one trick pony: new curse dwellers or passerbys will see you as an easy picking, lose some expensive stuff to overwhelming ECM, then probably bother setting hotdrop traps since you won’t likely fight if they go back prepared, with recon support etc.

I might be a little sad to find out that one of our closest neighbours do not represent a fight opportunity, i’ll live with it too Curse isn’t lacking targets, and for instance, if I want to fight tech 1 enthusiasts, Flying Dangerous lives in BPK atm, and they do actually commit most of the time !

With all that being said, keep up the good work, and have fun. Oh and merry Christmas

This time our own Roi Defenestre brings up a great point:

Roi Defenestre Wrote:To expand on Bren’s comments, and put it simply (I hope), we are perfectly aware that we are not Agony-lite. That’s not what we’re not trying to be. The majority of what we provide for our students involves information that you’re not going to interact with when you come across our bubble camp. Suffice to say, as Bren pointed out, we don’t catch OUCH graduates landing in our bubble. If the Nullsec survival lessons we teach weren’t valuable, our killboard would be a lot less busy.

We do use ECM. Many of our fights are lopsided, often as a direct result. It’s not up to us to level the playing field when someone picks a fight with us in a fleet that plays right into our strengths. It’s not as if most people in the area don’t know how we do.

Most of the fights we get in are imbalanced in the sense that it’s guns versus e-war, which is never going to be “even”, but will always be lopsided one way or the other, based on whether the e-war fleet can control the fight. When we run, it’s usually because we know we’re about to be overrun, which we don’t think makes for a particularly good learning experience. We pride ourselves on engagement selection. There are more factors that go into that than you’d probably guess.

We don’t begrudge it when someone hot-drops us, though we usually laugh at the sheer firepower usually brought to bear on our little T1 frigs, knowing full well we’re going to bug out. We amuse ourselves by guessing whether or not they spent more on fuel than our entire fleet’s ships are worth, combined. It’s even better when we can kill the cyno ship.

We don’t communicate to our graduating students that they now know all there is to know about PvP, quite the opposite. If they want to gain experience and have fun in big fights with disposable ships, RvB is that-a-way. If they want a more technical breakdown and to participate in focused roams, Agony is over there. If they want to join the Sov game, we’ve given them the tools to get to their sov space without getting ganked in a drag bubble. If they prefer small-gang, we’ve given them some pretty relevant experience, from which there is still a lot of learning to be done.

Everyone likes to say that they love Eve because you can do what you want to do in your Sandbox, but then they begrudge what other people do in their sandbox. They think that the High Sec PvE guys have no right to mine or mission in peace, not to mention all of the players who trade or manufacture or research as their game, because that's not really Eve.

The Solo PvPers think the Small Gang PvPers are jerks cause they blob. The Small Gang PvPers think the Large Gang pvpers are jerks cause they blob. The Large gang PvPers think the Small Gang PvPers suck because they won't stand and fight. The Roamers think that the Gatecampers are terrible PvPers because they gate camp. The Gatecampers think the Roamers are idiots because they waste a lot of time looking for fights and not a lot of time fighting.

None of these guys is playing the same game, yet they sit in judgement on the other guys game: It's must be lame cause I don't want to do it.

OUCH does one thing: We teach null sec survival and basic PvP. We're good at it. We know what game we are playing: like Roi said, it's guns versus EWAR.

It's like playing a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors, where almost everyone you meet uses Rock. OUCH uses Paper, and we run like hell when we see Scissors.

We're good at that, too.

Fly Safe or Fly Dangerous, Just Don't Fly Stupid.Eve Killboard - East US TZIn the business of maintaining the high cost of implants since 2009.