A "theory" is an attempt to explain observable phenomena. In this case the obsevable phenomena is that living things exist. One theory is evolution and its handmaiden, natural selection. An equally valid theory is "intelligent design"

Intellegent design takes in creationism by a deity, or by advanced beings from elsewhere.

Both are theories, not proven fact. Until such time as one can be proven ( or a new theory hatched) they will remain at best a good guess.

"In fact that is why evolution is a theory, it has never been observed in the physical world. It is as good a theory as Creationism in that regard. Until such time as a new species is observed, Evolution remains a theory."

<Offtopic digression>

If a *scientific* theory is meant, than evolution is a scientific theory, and creationism is not. Both are explanations of how life came into being, but evolution attempts to do so using naturally observed processes, and creationism makes no such attempt, alleging that God created the earth and life on it, outside of the natural scientific laws He brought forth into being.

Mind you, I don't think evolution is the last word by a long shot. It has areas where it is incomplete, the initial origin of life being one one such area. But it is the best scientific explanation we have. Creationism bypasses science altogether. In my opinion, that is wrongheaded. The natural laws that science attempts to describe is part of God's creation.

Of course, many evolution supporters, some of which are posting here, try to use science in the form of evolutionary theory, to bypass God. In my opinion as a Christian and a rational man who has studied Aristotle's arguments about the "First Cause," cutting out God from creation is much more wrongheaded than what the creationists do. That undercuts creation of *anything* at all.

I am to understand Islam is only barely 1000 years old, if that. The Hebrew Bible (to use the correct, scholarly naming convention) is likely in the neighborhood of 2500 - 3000 years old. The Christian Bible, well, that's probably in the neighborhood of ~1700 - 1800 years old, possibly a little less.

QUOTE :::Hemond - "Another point. They don't teach evolution in grade school. That is high school and college level material. "

Sure they do. That's where I learned it. It's so simple and obvious that any 5th grader can easily understand it.::;

Formal courses in Biology do not occur in standard US education curricula until 10th grade, maybe 9th grade for students in an accelerated program. You need a good exposure to Biology before you can tackle Evolution. Intermediate Biology is simply not taught in elementary schools. Well, you might plant a Zinnia seed on the windowsill, but you don't dissect any frogs.

There are general Science courses taught in 7th and 8th grade. These are general survey courses which give a broad exposure to just about everything. But not a whole lot of detail. Certainly nothing as daunting as Darwin. They will discuss Gregor Mendel and his peas, as well as fruit flies and eye color.

No my friend. YOu don't study Darwin and evolution of species until at least 10th grade. The subject takes a much more mature and developed student. Way beyond elementary level education.

QUOTE :::;Hemmond, you'll probably have to give an 'exact' time frame. LOL And I agree MODERN Christianity DOES NOT condone murder.:::

Very well, lets say the last 10 years. All the hideous islamic murders I listed occurred in the last 10 years. All under Allah's bloodthirsty direction. Other than the murder of Israeli athletes by reptilian islamic disciples at Munich. . That occured over 10 years ago.

I'll wait patiently while SemiSteve prepares a list of Christian murders under God's direction in the last decade. I'll accept any examples listed by Idheinz.

No doubt I could even come up with one committed by some lunatic. I expect the crazies at the Westboro Baptist church to pull something. But islamics are not lunatics, they know exactly what they are doing. That is following Allah's word.

Quote Idheinz - ::: Please learn what evolution is so that you won't keep making foolish statements like that.

Once again you go off on an irrelevant side issue. We are talking about new species appearing within historical past. We are not talking about natural selection. We are not talking about evolution. The statement made by SemiSteve was :::Many new species have evolved since the Bible was written and still do so.:::

The reality is not a single new species has evolved since the Bible was written. We are still waiting for SS to list an example. Its all well and good to discuss the theory of evolution but that is totally unrelated to the emergence of a new species within historical times.

In fact that is why evolution is a theory, it has never been observed in the physical world. It is as good a theory as Creationism in that regard. Until such time as a new species is observed, Evolution remains a theory. A theory chock full of holes by the way.

"And why do you assume, entirely without evidence, that there's a "why"? The most likely explanation is that it just happened, after all."

Really? Here is a link to Wikipedia who happens to have all the theories for creation of life by the scientific community. However, NONE of them can say WHY chemicals became life. They have their thumbs up their bums scratching their heads saying it must have just happened after all also.

Hemmond, you'll probably have to give an 'exact' time frame. LOL And I agree MODERN Christianity DOES NOT condone murder.

Quote :::Idheinz - OK. Nowhere in the bible does it say to be kind to children, but 5 times (3 OT & 2 NT) it says that we must kill them for talking back to us (Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 20:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Mark 7:9-13, Matthew 15:4-7). Want more?

Yes I most certainly do want more.

You didn't answer the question. You went off on an irrelevant side issue which has no bearing whatsoever in the least. You reverted to standard liberal-progressive technique when cornered. You ducked and dodged. Biblical quotes from 2K, 5K, 7K or more years ago hardly qualifies as modern.

The question remains unanswered. To wit :Please give an example where modern Christianity requires killing.

I've already listed numerous examples of cold blooded murder committed by islamics in the recent past. Under the direction of Allah. I'm prepared to list hundreds more. Please list one example of cold blooded murder committed by Christians in the recent past. Under the direction of God or the Bible.

Hemond - "I stand by my premise that no new species have emerged since the Bible was written. "

If you actually had actually READ what I said instead of just doing a cut and paste you'd know that I didn't deny that. What I denied was that it was unexpected. Please learn what evolution is so that you won't keep making foolish statements like that.

Hemond - "Another point. They don't teach evolution in grade school. That is high school and college level material. "

Sure they do. That's where I learned it. It's so simple and obvious that any 5th grader can easily understand it.

Tru2psu2 - "your view of Christmas really shows.... "

I was just pointing out that "god" is about as likely as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OK. Nowhere in the bible does it say to be kind to children, but 5 times (3 OT & 2 NT) it says that we must kill them for talking back to us (Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 20:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Mark 7:9-13, Matthew 15:4-7). Want more?

Sophisticated biblical quotations like this sail over GBers heads....since some think the muslim faith is several 1000s of years old while others think the Bible is only 2000 years old, it would be pushing it to expect GBers to be familiar with the Sermon on the Mount.

QUOTE ::::Maybe you should have paid attention in grade school when they taught what evolution is. It takes longer than 2000 years for enough mutations to occur. However, natural selection has been observed many, many times and the mutation rate has been measured quite accurately and backed up with corroboratory evidence.:::

Natural Selection is not the emergence of an entirely new species. I stand by my premise that no new species have emerged since the Bible was written. (other than perhaps virus). Please give an example of a new species that has emerged since the Bible was written.

Some further points. The Bible is far older than 2000 years, you are referring to the New Testament which is only a portion of what we call the Bible. The Old Testament is far older, 1000s of years older. It dates to the time of King David and is probably over 5000 years old.

Another point. They don't teach evolution in grade school. That is high school and college level material. Modern liberal/progressive controlled education has its hands full just trying to teach the 3Rs - and failing badly. It was possible to teach evolutionary theory in grade school before the takeover and dumbing down of education by the modern liberal/progressive educational establishment. Evolutionary theory is hopelessly beyond a modern grade school level student.

Hemond - "Not a single new species has evolved since the Bible was written... possibly some virus but no complex animal or plant. "

Maybe you should have paid attention in grade school when they taught what evolution is. It takes longer than 2000 years for enough mutations to occur. However, natural selection has been observed many, many times and the mutation rate has been measured quite accurately and backed up with corroboratory evidence.

greentre - "Where did I say anything about Bronze Age nomads? Notice the ‘GOD’ as in Supreme Being, omnipotent, capable of mapping our existence into the future."

Let me spell it out for you. Since the Bronze Age nomads who wrote the bible didn't know what stars or planets were, they undoubtedly didn't plan on going to them. "God" was just something they made up to explain the unknown. You should give it up when the REAL answers become known, just as we give up Santa Claus when we grow up.

greentre - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. - Big Bang Theory"

greentre - "No, science kind of falls flat after the big bang on subjects like “Why life?” Why would a group of chemicals like amino acids become life? An inanimate object has no desires; it doesn’t need to eat or procreate; it has no feelings; it’s a lump of clay. So, why life?"

Science doesn't fall nearly as flat as that childish nonsense about god. And why do you assume, entirely without evidence, that there's a "why"? The most likely explanation is that it just happened, after all.

QUOTE :::"Oh, and once again, its not I who is arguing that islam is taking over the world..."

"...islamic population growth is on an exponential curve and will overwhelm our world in the near future.":::

Correct, it was not me arguing islamic world domination, thats your interest. You supplied a link supporting explosive islamic population growth. Not me. But since you were kind enough to link, I interpreted it for you.

As I've already stated numerous times my area of expertise is the upcoming take over of Europe and the creation of eurabia.

"Oh, and once again, its not I who is arguing that islam is taking over the world..."

"...islamic population growth is on an exponential curve and will overwhelm our world in the near future."

***

On the origin of life, which evolved into the existence of human life: Science tells us many species are far older than humans, disproving the Bible. And species were not all formed at the same time. Many new species have evolved since the Bible was written and still do so. The process is continuous, not as directed by a super-natural creator being whom nobody can tell us where HE came from or WHY he decided to create the world.

I've considered this at length. The idea of a heaven sounds wonderful at first but upon closer inspection does not appeal to me. One of the reasons we enjoy life is because we have negative experiences to compare positive ones to. Without the negative (the vision of heaven - all is good) existence would be pretty boring.

And then to think that there is no end to it could be kinda like a sentence. No more perspective of why things are so good, add a few hundred years, and it would get very dull and old. But that's just the beginning. After all, it is for eternity. No end to it. That does not sound fun at all. I'm thinking a few million years into that and you'd either be insane or wishing for an end to it.

I'm very glad it is just a tale that no living person on this planet can really describe because it sounds like too much of a 'good' thing to me. That is if good can have any meaning after bad is removed.

I'm happy to just live my life to the fullest while I have it. And when it is done I will simply think (if I have the chance) 'That was a good life.' and be gone. Just like every other animal that shares 99% of our DNA that has ever lived before us.

No, science kind of falls flat after the big bang on subjects like “Why life?” Why would a group of chemicals like amino acids become life? An inanimate object has no desires; it doesn’t need to eat or procreate; it has no feelings; it’s a lump of clay. So, why life?

QUOTE ::::For Christians to fear being overtaken by Muslims would be sort of like being afraid of one's shadow, would it not?:::

Hmmm, I wonder if Daniel Pearl, drummer Lee Rigby, Theo Van Gogh, Nicholas Berg, Jack Hensley, Eugene Armstrong, and Paul Johnson to name of few feared muslims before being beheaded. I wonder how many Christians behead non-believers?

I wonder if Salmon Rushdie or Geert Wilders fear muslims after having fatwas of death placed on their heads? How many death orders has the Vatican issued?

I wonder if Leon Klinghoffer feared islamics before they murdered him on that cruise ship and dumped him and his wheelchair overboard. Or the few 1000 incinerated in the Twin Towers? Do you suppose they feared islamics?

I wonder if Israelis fear islamics who rain down 100s of missiles a year on their heads and who blow up Israeli school buses with 6 year old girls? I wonder if the Israeli athletes in Munich feared muslims before they were slaughtered for the crime of being Jews?

I wonder if gayboys living in Tehran are afraid for their lives? As compared to gayboys living in Rome?

The fact of the matter is one should fear islamics with good reason. They have a sordid history of murder, and complete contempt for human life. Christians do not.

:::If Muslims are overtaking the Christian world on the basis of some thousands-of-years-old writings one would think they would be a little further along than they are.:::

Err, you might like to learn some basic info about islam. It dates from the 7th century. By my reckoning that is roughly 1400 years ago. "Thousands of years" is a plural, meaning 2 or more 1000s. islam is thus not "thousands of years" old. Its barely over 1000 years old.

Oh, and once again, its not I who is arguing that islam is taking over the world, its you who presents that argument. I'm only interested in their intent to turn Europe into eurabia, (which they are well on the way to doing). Nonetheless I'm happy to continue discussing the evidence you linked which demonstrates that islamic demographics are soon to overtake the world.

If Muslims are overtaking the Christian world on the basis of some thousands-of-years-old writings one would think they would be a little further along than they are. Or at least ahead of Christians by now.

Must be embarassing to admit that, well, there ARE 1.5 times as many Christians as there are Muslims.

For Christians to fear being overtaken by Muslims would be sort of like being afraid of one's shadow, would it not?

I see you are at a complete loss to explain this apparent incongruity with your beliefs. Is that why you overlooked these inconvenient truths?

And MY! Lookie at all the additional information overlooked while cherry-picking that ONE thing about the 40 year growth of Muslims. Why there are THREE other religions which are growing faster than Muslims! Look at that. Spiritists, Daoists and Bahá'ís are growing faster than Muslims... GadZOOKS! We're all going to be doing Tai Chi as we fight over dwindling resources because there are already too many humans for the planet to comfortably support.

I contend that the minute all the land on Earth was claimed by one nation or another THAT was the moment we really had enough people. Everything since then has been nothing but squabbling about borders and resources. We should all agree to negative population growth until we are back to that level. From then on it should be stabilized. Humans from then on will revere us for being the greatest generation that ever existed for doing that.

::::Hemond - "By my calculations that growth trajectory will result in a doubling of the islamic population in 25 years. "

And by other people's calculations it's something else. How did your calculations include reduced food supplies, changes in European laws, and so forth?:::

Place those "other people's calculations" here and we can discuss them. I will be happy to go over those "other people's calculations" you just referenced. I am prepared to discuss food supplies and changes to European law-very prepared. Looking forward to it.

QUOTE :::ldheinz - "Those were the superstitions of bronze age people when there were just a few millions of us. It just doesn't apply today. "::::

Those bronze era people you so cavalierly dismiss were a lot more perceptive than most people today.

We just had a trial in Florida where a 17yo was shot. One of God's laws is "Thou shall not kill"

In that same trial we had the main stream media, the Hollywood elite, and national public figures in the federal government conducting a witch hunt. One of Gods laws is "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

When ghetto/gangsta society was unhappy with the trial's verdict, they rioted and busted into Walmart to steal all the bling-bling. One of God's laws is "Thou shall not steal"

80% of ghetto/gangsta offspring and 50% of white offspring are born into single mother homes-with unknown fathers. Some go on to rob gated communities in Florida. One of God's laws is "Honor thy father and mother."

I could go on. If modern man adopted the life values of those Bronze Age folk you disparage, many of the world's ills would no longer be a problem.

QUOTE :::You noticed that the 40 year rate is 4.23%.But what you ignored is that over that period of time the rate has been steadily dropping - the most recent rate is only 1.83%.:::

Nope, I didn't ignore it at all, that is not what your link states. YOur data has numerous different time spans mixed together and has to be converted to identical year time spans to be a valid comparison.

I will pick a 5 year period for convenience, your could pick a 1 year too. Here are the correct figures as per your link...

For 1970 - 1985 the rate of islamic growth is 0.91% per 5 yearsFor 1990 - 2000 the rate of islamic growth is 1.065 per 5 yearsFor 2000 - 2005 the rate of islamic growth is 1.80 per 5 years

Your data proves without doubt that the rate of islamic population growth is on an exponential curve and will overwhelm our world in the near future.

Then God's plan is for humans to overpopulate the Earth. Hence, God's plan is one of self-destruction. Hence, God does not have the best wishes of humans in mind. Perhaps God is simply using humans as his little playthings for personal amusement. --------------------------------------------Sorry, all bad deductions. We, as humans, cannot understand God. When we use our puny logic, we end up walking around in circles. BTW, there is plenty of room on this planet for more human life. Take a plane ride or best yet, a space capsule.

"we were commanded in the scriptures to be fruitful and multiply-it is actually part of God's Plan."

--Then God's plan is for humans to overpopulate the Earth. Hence, God's plan is one of self-destruction. Hence, God does not have the best wishes of humans in mind. Perhaps God is simply using humans as his little playthings for personal amusement.

OR

What makes more sense is that there is no God and we are under absolutely NO obligation to follow the scriptures.

Which means that we would be wise to take matters into our own hands and set propogation policy which would facilitate the endurance of humans on Earth. -------------------------------If this is the paradigm you are operating under, so be it, but it doesn't mean that you are talking about fundamental TRUTH.

Why do you feel that it's anything more than ancient superstition? Just because your mommy and daddy said so? ---------------------------------Really sorry you don't understand God (as best we humans can) and how He works. Just because you don't understand, doesn't mean it is so....

Alright! Way to go. Congratulations for ignoring the overall knowledge and zooming right in to one little thing that supports a very xenophobic fear of other religions.

You noticed that the 40 year rate is 4.23%.

But what you ignored is that over that period of time the rate has been steadily dropping - the most recent rate is only 1.83%.

Why bother with such realistic evidence that Islamics are not really poised to over-run all others when you can find something not as applicable that stokes your unrealistic fears.

One big problem you touched on is that only the richest Muslims have more than one wife. That represents an extremely small percentage. Most are very poor! Which means that most are lucky to find ONE wife.

And contrary to your beliefs that they all follow the Koran to the letter - um - they DON'T.

Wow the entire basis for your fears has just been wiped out. If your xenophobia was a house of cards a big wind has sent it fluttering in the skies and you chasing it in an impossible plight to capture each of the rapidly spreading cards.

And using increasingly intensive technology to squeeze the last of the fossil fuels out of the Earth is hardly being 'awash in oil.' More like the desparate attempts to support a fading energy age which knows it must change to forge a bright new future but is held back by fossil profiteers.

Irrelevant to this discussion. Christians are not multiplying like bunnies. islamics are. islamics most definitely take their orders from the koran. In this case the koran allows 4 wives per man. Some of whom are 8 years old at betrothal, Link here as per the example set by the prophet mohammed. (actually , A'isha was 7 when she was betrothed to mohammed)

The only reason the birth rate isn't even higher amongst islamics is that most still live in the Stone Age and can't afford the upkeep of a harem. Hard to keep a harem when you make a living selling camel dung.

::::Would that be an INVERSE exponential rate, as SemiSteve showed the rate to be decreasing?:::

Nope, I mean't exactly what I wrote. His link shows a runaway growth in islamic demographics. According to SemiSteve's link, the rate of growth of the islamic population is 4.23% per year over the last 40 years. By my calculations that growth trajectory will result in a doubling of the islamic population in 25 years. That is 200% of the rate of growth of the Christian population.

"So are you suggesting that Christians need to kill Muslims who pray to "Allah"? I think this was the rationale of the Crusades."

It's not my personal preference to kill anyone as long as they are not threatening me or my family personally. Killing for religion is about as stupid as one can get.

Steve,

"Then God's plan is for humans to overpopulate the Earth. Hence, God's plan is one of self-destruction. Hence, God does not have the best wishes of humans in mind."

Maybe God means for humans to expand our horizons into the cosmos and populate other worlds.

"Perhaps God is simply using humans as his little playthings for personal amusement."

Or He might be allowing us to run free with the concept of free will.

Maybe He is still resting on His seventh day and hasn't gotten around to checking on us yet. I've heard it said that a thousand years for us is the blink of an eye for God.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. - Big Bang Theory

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. - Formation of the sun

And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. - Water condenses on the surface of earth.

And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good. - Seperation of land masses.

Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day. - Formation of the primeal forests.

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day. - The constellations as we know them today.

And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day. - Sea life and birds (though science says that birds came later).

And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. - Populating the lands; fish move onto land and breath air.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,a and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

So God created mankind in his own image,in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Islamics are breeding at an exponential rate, as per SemiSteve's link. While Europe and Asia are self extincting. America is one of the few countries with a stable population.

Islamics take their orders from Allah. They will pay no attention to any westerners who tell them to get their breeding under control. That violates Koranic teaching. We need to worry about the growth of this dangerous ideology.

In the meanwhile the earth provides an abundance of natural resources. Especially oil of late. We are now swimming in oil.

To get back to population, the earth can easily support many billions more. So despite the exponential islamic birth rate as provided by the link in SemiSteve's post, there is no reason to be worried about running out of resources.

We do need to worry about the growth of windmills and electric cars though. They are dangerously depleting our supply of rare earth/technology metals. Plus green energy dangerously unbalances and destabilized the power grid. Green power is a form of pollution which we need to address.

"we were commanded in the scriptures to be fruitful and multiply-it is actually part of God's Plan."

--Then God's plan is for humans to overpopulate the Earth. Hence, God's plan is one of self-destruction. Hence, God does not have the best wishes of humans in mind. Perhaps God is simply using humans as his little playthings for personal amusement.

OR

What makes more sense is that there is no God and we are under absolutely NO obligation to follow the scriptures.

Which means that we would be wise to take matters into our own hands and set propogation policy which would facilitate the endurance of humans on Earth.

Deuteronomy 17If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.---------------------------------When the Savior came to fulfill the Law, many tenants in the Old Testament directed to preserve God's people-the Jews-are not what have been practiced by the Judea-Christian community for eons. I don't see these factions out to destroy the rest of the world. Christians believe that all of mankind are sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father. I have not read the Koran-are there passages in it that instruct the Muslims to disregard the killing of the Infidels?

-How many times do you have to post this to amuse yourself? As I have said repeatedly (and has gone in one ear and out the other each time): -------------------------------------We humans do waste the resources we have available. How much food in this country is wasted daily-40-50%? If we were more reasonable with these, there would be plenty for all. Everyday I see trash left all over the roadways by those who apparently weren't brought up correctly by their parents. We, personally, are very frugal with the resources that we have. Sorry that I missed your point about the (surplus population)-we were commanded in the scriptures to be fruitful and multiply-it is actually part of God's Plan.

On Jul 11, 2013 6:39:30 PM SemiSteve said "It doesn't take much to imbalance a system in equilibrium. Just a little change adds up to a lot over time."

Yet according to SemiSteve's Wiki link the Muslim faith is growing at an annualized rate of 4.23%

Mankind is contributing less than 4% of global warming gases (of which 3.6%) is water vapor) and Steve argues that this is a major problem. Yet he doesn't feel that an exponential islamic growth rate of 4.23% presents a problem.

How can Steve argue global warming yet be dismissive of islamic growth? What about. "It doesn't take small changes...?" What about? "Just a little adds up to a lot...?"

QUOTE :::Hemond; and others afflicted with xenophobic thoughts: Muslims have had how many thousands of years to dominate the world by now? ::::

I don't recall saying Muslims will dominate the world. Once again you use the standard liberal/progressive technique of trying to turn the argument upside down - to something totally different and unrelated.

I said islamic immigration and population trends in Europe will turn Europe into an islamic caliphate in 2 generations. I said Europe and Brittain will soon become islamic. I said Belgium will be the first islamic country in Europe. Not once did I say islam will conquer the world.

The Hebrew word "Jehovah", when translated into Arabic, is "Allah". Muslims believe that earlier versions of "The Book" are simply less accurate versions of god's word, as written by earlier prophets of god. Mohammad took years rewriting "The Book" into Arabic Poetry.

grentre said: "According to this Christians are instructed in the bible to murder persons who do not believe in their god. Yet many Christians are content to ignore certain parts of the bible to promote peace. And what of those who do not ignore such parts of the bible's text? We call them extremists just like some Muslims and the Qur'an."

--My understanding is that Jews, Muslims and most Christians I have ever heard of believe that the Supreme Being that they all pray to is, in fact, the same entity. So are you suggesting that Christians need to kill Muslims who pray to "Allah"? I think this was the rationale of the Crusades.