Does anyone have any experience or knowledge concerning a popular teaching that is informally presented under the title of, 'Christianity Explored'? Is it anything like 'Experiencing God'? I know I'm not up on what the latest 'moves' or whatever of the established religious community, but I am interested in learning about this teaching/study presentation.

Six years ago I became involved in a study group and the material was called,'Experiencing God', written by a Canadian man named Henry Blackaby (a Baptist) in 1990 and was fairly solid, considering he didn't have The Baptism of The Holy Spirit. I was asked to help lead the study group and share what The Lord had revealed to me along my Christian walk...They were nice, but when I got started talking about actually believing what The Word said, their eyes glazed over and there was a lot of shifting around in the seats, and the attendance fell off pretty fast.

Anyway, the reason I ask is this, I saw a banner at the entrance gates where I live anouncing that there would be a 'Christianity Explored' class given in our clubhouse starting July 6, lasting 10 weeks. I went to a web site and read their mission and what they believed/doctrinal statement, and it was very sound. I thought it might be an open door to share with some neighbors...( we have about 800-1,000 people living in this gated community) I spoke with the property manager today about it to see if it was still on, because I noticed over the weekend that the banner was gone. She informed me that there had been complaints about 'religion' and a banner with a cross on it; saying it wasn't right to push christianity upon those who didn't believe in it.( yep, political correctness alive and well right here in the bible belt) I asked how many complained and was told just a few, but that it was taken down so as not to offend them. Yeah, I asked if we had been bought out by the government or something, and was now under the guidelines that applied to all federal building and property...and could I still pray before I went to bed...I know, I can't help being a smart aleck at times.

I just wondered if anyone knows anything about it and could give me a heads-up. If not I guess I'll be checking it out for myself...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Just in case anyone was interested, Christianity Explored is a very elementary introduction into Christianity. It is designed not to offend anyone coming into the class who has a different background or belief system.( presenter, we won't be praying because we don't want to scare anyone off or make anyone uncomfortable.) It does start off with the systematic reading of The Gospel of Mark(I thought, oh goodie, this will be interesting) I received a study guide and there are weekly 'home study' material with places for notes and comments. Example: "In Mark 1:1-13 who points to Jesus?"(and all God's children said, "John The Baptist")

So I glanced ahead just to see how they was going to deal with or expound upon Mk. 11:24 or Mk.16:17-18...NOT EVEN MENTIONED...at all. So when we get there, by God's grace, maybe I can introduce them to Jesus' teachings on FAITH.

I told myself that I was going in with an open mind and not be judgemental, but to be teachable if presented with Biblical truths. After one meeting, I'm seeking The Lord to give me the oppertunity to share deeper truths with those who will be receptive. One guy is in the seminary, I asked him if God called him to be a pastor and he said he started the seminary not knowing why he was there, but now he thought that maybe he was called to be a preacher.

Brothers and sisters, without being boastful, but rather humbly reminded...we got SO MUCH TO BE THANKFUL FOR... We mustn't take for granted the wisdom and understanding God has freely given us, ears to hear and eyes to see. Thank you Jesus...

I hope and pray that there will be someone(or many) that God will give me the Words to share that will give them a hunger for more than just traditions of man and booklets that only mentions Jesus' name, but fails to guide them to a relationship with Him.

Either way, I pray Jesus be revealed unto them...

Anyone lead to be praying with me about this, I'd be blessed. I know it has to be Jesus, but how can they believe if they haven't heard...and how can they hear if we're afraid of the responses we'll get, or what they'll think of us?

Rom.1:16

*hbr

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

I haven't heard of the program but I do think that it could be a good way to meet your "neighbors" who may be beaten up and left for dead on the road to Jericho!

Over the years I have become less and less interactive with the mission field we have all around us but lately I find myself wanting to get out more and rub elbows with others. The passage about praying for the Lord to send out laborers into the harvest (someone recently shared it here) has stirred me to be more proactive in reaching out to others.

Yep, that's the reason I'm going to be part of this, the first thought would be, 'this is so elementary and one-size-fits-all' why waste my time...But, upon thinking about what has been shared on here a while ago, I thought, here am i Lord, use me. ( I'll bet 'somebody' didn't think I was paying attention... )

It will absolutely have to be The Lord because where in the world do ya start? The saying about bailing out the ocean with a spoon comes to mind...but right behind that thought comes, 'i can do ALL things through Christ who strenghtens me'. I can only plant the seed, He will have to give the increase...so I'll wait and be ready for oppertunities to share The Jesus who is more than a character spoken of in books; but The LIVING risen Savior.

Imagine writting a booket to help bring people to Christianity, without even mentioning about the FAITH required to accomplish this?

O boy, talking about creating upheaval in the unbelieving church... Maybe they won't ask me to drink some 'deadly thing' to show my faith; when we get to Mark 16...I'd prefer laying hands on those sick and seeing them recover.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Last night in the Christianity Explored class there was a question asked that raised a question in my mind that I wasn't sure of the answer. We were discussing why the disciples were so afraid during the storm at sea; in Mark 4:37-41. From there questions came up about if they had The Holy Spirit in them or not, or even if they were saved yet, at that time. One person responded to my comment about them not yet having The Holy Spirit in them, that The Spirit had always been around even in the OT.(this is from someone without the baptism, except they think they DO have the baptism; they believe they received it when they got saved...no evidence or speaking in tongues.) I explained that there is a difference between the anointing Jesus gave them to work miracles and bring people into the kingdom, and The Holy Spirit (The Comforter)He tells them The Father will send in His Name to teach them all things and bring all things to their remembrance that He had said unto them...John 14:26 I shared how The Holy Spirit came to them on the day of Pentecost and that's when they began to show evidence of His presence by speaking in tongues, demonstrating POWER(Acts 1:8)and being witnesses of The Gospel. I tried to explain that there is a big difference between The Holy Spirit dwelling within a person; and being present in the form of a pillar of fire or a cloud, or anointing OT prophets to speak. How after Pentecost it wasn't just power witnessed externally; but came to dwell within them, just as Jesus had promised.

Then the question arose, were the disciples even SAVED at that point; at first everyone said of course they were, they were the disciples of Jesus. The seminary student then asked me why did I think that maybe they weren't saved yet; my thinking was based upon what Jesus said to Peter in Luke 22:32, "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strenghten thy brethren." Everyone left wondering about when were the disciples saved...

I thought this would be something interesting to discuss among us, since I no longer have any tapes or teachings on this subject(if it was ever discussed, I don't remember it...althought surely I've forgotten because I can't see Bro. Freeman not teaching on it at some point.)

So my question is, at what point did the disciples get saved, was it when Jesus first called them to follow Him, or was it after His death, burial, and resurection? Also I would appreciate any commentary on the difference (if there was any) between the power and anointing they walked under while under Jesus' 3 year ministry, verses after Pentecost and The Holy Spirits' presence filling them. I have a head full of thoughts that has came as I write this...but first I would love to hear others thoughts and what ya'll remember or have learned from former teachings. Am I out in left field with this, or is this legitimate questioning?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

I think they were saved when they started to follow Jesus. Some were saved before. Was it Andrew Jesus said was an Isralite with no guile? I think he was saved. I don't see any difference between OT and NT salvation/ Either you were born again or you wern't. John was a disciple of John the Baptist. He must have been saved. Possibly Matt the tax collector wasn't. Maybe some of the others. The knowledge of salvation was certainly present throughout Israel.

I thought your remarks about the annointing vs the Baptism were absolutely right.

OK, I know John The Baptist told them to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and he was baptizing them. But what do we do with the statement Jesus made to Peter, in Luke 22:32 "...when thou art converted, strenghten thy brethren."

Not arguing, just wondering...I'm not saying they weren't saved, I just wonder what Jesus meant by that word, 'converted'?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

I think he meant it in the sense of when you turn back. I'd have to look up the greek word.

Peter when you get through this mess when you're over all the feelings and upsetness When you're ready to pick up the calling again I gave you . . . strengthen your bro's because they'll need your help and for the same reasons.

I looked it up just now in Strong's concordance, it means to; revert: come (go) again: turn(about, again)

So your translation or putting into today's jargon, seems spot on, ole chap... Yeah, thinking about it, I imagine Peter had to deal with condemnation for a while, and I'm sure he never forgot his denial.(probably didn't have problems with pride or self-righteousness)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Hardbones wrote:
> I think he meant it in the sense of when you turn back. I'd have to look up the greek word.
>
> Peter when you get through this mess when you're over all the feelings and upsetness When you're ready to pick up the calling again I gave you . . . strengthen your bro's because they'll need your help and for the same reasons.
>
> That kind of idea. I'm going to look up the Greek word this weekend.
>

I think you are right Hardbones... Jesus seemed to "re-commission" Peter
after the resurrection but I don't think his salvation was ever in question.

Just in case anyone is interested in how the 'Christianity Explored' class is going, here's an update. I had mentioned earlier that Mk. 11:24 and 16:17-18 wasn't even brought up in the study guide. I just thought when we got to those scriptures, I'd raise questions to engage others in discussion about faith and what impact it has in our lives. But before we got there, we had to follow the DVD presentation, Oh Boy!

JDS, is still a well held on to doctrine; the guy teaching the class starts in on how God abandoned Jesus at the cross and sent him to hell for 3 days and allowed Him to be subject to satan.....so we wouldn't have to. So when the DVD was over, I asked if anyone had any problem with what the guy had said, and if they agreed with that position of Jesus dying spiritually. The others thought he was right, they had been taught JDS, and while they were respectful of my convictions and stance, they left saying they were in full agreement with the doctrine that has Jesus dying spiritually, going to hell for 3 days, totally forsaken by God, and becoming a sinner in our place(instead of, as The Word teaches, a sin substitute, atoning for our sins through the shedding of His Blood.) The guide says that 'Jesus was abandoned by God so that we need never be.'

And they use Mk.15:34 as a proof text that God abandoned Jesus. There was no mention of the fact that Jesus was fullfilling prophetic scriptures(Ps.22) throughout the crucifixion from the Old Testament.( Isaiah 53; Ps.34:20 and 69:21)

Once more I find myself giving thanks, with a humbled heart, for being given eyes to see with and ears to hear...and The Holy Spirit(who they told me doesn't any longer do the things spoken of in the Book of Acts...cessationist, I think they're called)...

I asked the two seminary students what would they think if I started speaking in tongues and prophesying, they just looked at each other as if to say, 'what have we got ourselves into?'

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Thanks for the update James, I have enjoyed your insights on what is taught in the class. If there are still classes going on I wouldn't mind somemore sharing on what is taught. Like we have heard for so long, the devil doesn't come with 90 percent error and 10 percent truth, but with 90 percent truth and 10 percent error, but watch out for what the error is. There are errors that are robbing people of their lives and joy and peace, and salvation. Even if people have not received what you shared at least you planted a seed of truth in them.

We have been so blessed over the years to be taught about deceptions such as the JDS heresy. I remember being at Faith Assembly the night Brother Freeman announced he was going to write a book exposing the heresy. The people shouted with joy and praise to God that the heresy would be further exposed in a book that could be read and given out. I guess I would have to search around, but I am not aware of any other books exposing the JDS heresy, are you?

I don't know of any books that expose the shepherdship teaching. I am not saying they aren't out there, I just don't know of any. If someone knows of one, please let me know. In the churches today there is alot of cell groups or small groups. While I can see getting together with other believers I would have to wonder is this just another type of shepherdship? I am not saying all groups that do this are shepherdship, but some you wonder about.

Today the "pastors" of churches teach their flock to look to man for help, not God. They tell you to come up front after the service and our prayer warriors will pray for you. Then sometimes they will take them through the occult method of inner healing, healing of the memories or Theophostics. I use to visit a church with a friend, and at that church they constantly encouraged people to come up front and have these prayer teams pray for you. I have nothing against having people pray for each other, but I cannot remember a time where the emphasis was to trust God for themselves, because God was faithful to help them. The leadership in these churches make the sheep dependent on them or the prayer people, not on Jesus. If Gods sheep had pastors who would point them to the word of God and faith in Jesus there wouldn't need to be all these weak churches who look more like the world than like christians.

Ps 86:11-12 "Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name. I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore."

The class is based on the presumption that those attending have diverse beliefs and limited background knowledge of Christianity. It is very simple and presented in a way to introduce unbelievers to who Jesus is, and raise questions as to where they stand relationship wise with Him. The young man who is presenting the class on DVD is English/British and so there's a bit of communication differences when compared to the way Americans chose our words. But while most everything he's said is backed up by scripture and points one to Jesus Christ, his position of Jesus being abandoned by God and going to hell as a sinner so we wouldn't have to, is error.(I believe he's sincere about what he's doing, but due to what he's been taught, he's passing on this deception to those who, through this teaching on Christianity, won't have the discernment and biblical knowledge to know that it's wrong...imo)

To say that Jesus died spiritually, plants a seed in the hearts and minds of those who are part of the study/class, which is exactly what Satan wants. E.W.Kenyon introduced this and Kenneth Hagin made it popular back in the 60's.(and so far, I'm the only one in the group who doesn't believe this lie, so pray for God to open eyes and give me what He wants said, that they'll be set free.)

I haven't personally read any other book exposing this error, besides the one written by Bro. Freeman. But here is the link to another person who has recognized this error and refuted it in a letter to Kenneth Hagin in the 90's. I read over it and there's some meat there, maybe a bone or two, but it's good to see someone else standing up for truth...(not that I thought we were the only ones that did.....stand up for the truth)

Hank Hennegraf wrote a book about 15 yrs ago called 'Christianity in Crisis" I don't recommend anyone read it but it was quite good on JDS. Most of the rest of the book was against charismatic issues. But on JDS quite good. Actually now that I think about it may be good for your class. Even with the anti-charismatic stuff

Actually now that I think about it may be good for your class. Even with the anti-charismatic stuff

Hey Mark,

Beings how I'm the only person attending with The Baptism(they think they have it, but don't believe in the gifts, speaking in tongues, or much of anything besides Jesus and John 3:16); I don't think any feathers would be ruffled if someone writting a book was against charismatics. But with all the hoopla lately with Lakeland/Bentley and apostolic commissioners and prophets for hire, I don't use the term 'charismatic' very often...todays 'charismatic movement' is rather embarrassing.

But since it's just a 10 week study(maybe some will be interested in a home bible study in the future...that would be a blessing...one of the guys attending has already came over and watched some Tom Hamilton tapes with me) and I'm not the one putting it on, we'd probably better stick with the guide.(we get sidetracked enough with discussions outside the realm of our topic, Christianity.) But thanks for the suggestion.

I am going to do some research into 'shepherdship', there are a lot of people/churches caught up in that. People just LOVE to control others and take the emphases off Jesus and onto themselves.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

I thought I'd go to a 'christian bookstore' today and check on a new Bible,(my newest one is 25 yr. old and coming apart) I can't recall the last time I went into one of these places, probably 10-15 years. Anyway, besides the fact that a new Thompson Chain-Reference KJV Bible by Kirkbride in real leather, with all the bells and whistles, now cost over a hundred bucks(the last one cost about $35)I was blown away with all the new translations and speciality 'bibles', guess I should take Moulder's advice and get out more.

I was amazed at how there would be a Smith Wigglesworth or Charles Spurgeon book and right beside it a book by Rick Warren, Mike Bickle, Joel Osteen, and Rick Joyner, almost seemed sacrilegious...I was suprised to see 'Pigs in the Parlor' and some older books by godly men, but most of it was feel good stuff written by the superstars of todays religious.

I did take some time to read a good bit in Hank Hanegraaff's book, "Church in Crisis", he does come against JDS but he also blasts anything having to do with the 'faith message'. Of course he's right about much of what passes today as 'The Word of Faith' or Word Faith teachers, of whom we're familiar.

There was a whole section on the 'Emergent Church' and exciting new ways to 'have church'.

Seems I didn't miss out on too much by not frequenting my local 'christian bookstore', Oh, and don't get me started on the music section... christian music? Please...But I WAS offered first selection of the "brand new christmas collection that just arrived". A porcelain baby jesus ornament, just what every Christian needs...

I just decided to order a Bible on-line, better selection and better prices.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Good to hear from you, last I heard you'd said something about going into a cave to read some manuscripts...what ya got? electricity in there, or just a dish for internet service?

Thanks for the info, I went on E-Bay and bought a 60's vintage Cambridge Bible, red-letter with sky blue calfskin leather cover, for less than $40. (I love old Cambridge Bibles, I'm bidding now on some really old copies from the 1800's, I could easily become addicted to seeking out and buying old Bibles.) Actually there are some Bibles for sale from the 1600's, a few are going for over $100,000. How cool would it be to have a hand printed copy of The Bible from 1611? Of course,it'd be too valuable to use, still......

Still looking to find a Thompson Chain-Reference by Kirkbride in leather from the 70's(the quality was much better then, the one I use now was printed in 1978 and I've about worn it out)
I was given a nice leather Bible by World Publishing when I graduated in 69, it's SO broken in, but it's falling apart, and my Thompson is just getting to be like I like it(full of notes, underlined, highlighted, and easy to use)but it's starting to look a bit frayed(my pet parrot, Bubba<now deceased> liked to nibble on the leather cover when I wasn't watching)

It was good hearing from you, maybe you should venture out of the cave more often...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Thanks for the note. Yes, I do need to poke my head out of the cave more often.

When I do get a chance to check in, it is always a blessing to me.

I have been in Rev., Ezk., and Daniel as of late. I have also been reviewing Dr. Freeman's Rev. outline and the answers Jiz helped me out with concerning our spiritual and physical relationship with Israel. Whoops...that is for another thread!

I thought I'd add this post to this thread even though it doesn't have anything to do directly with 'Christianity Explored'. It is more a comment on the state of the Harlot Church System and the lack of discernment and understanding of what the churches' function is.

The local Presbyterian Church is real big on community action,(they're the ones that promoted the Christianity Explored study I attended a couple years ago) they place young people who are attending seminary in strategic locations(paying their rent and expenses while they 'train' for ministry) and require them to organize community events with the purpose of drawing people to Jesus(I guess surely that is their stated goal, though you couldn't prove it by what I've witnessed). They have vacation bible school for children, yard sales, pool parties, and 'bible studies'.

The guys (usually 2 per location) are called the 'care team' and are responsible for carrying out these programs in the neighborhoods. So here's what was on my door today, written up as a flyer.

Tired of Church?

check out******'s dinner and Bible study

6:00-7:30 PM

August 29th @ apt #-----

RSVP-contact *********

Hope to see you for some excellent food, great music, and of course...FUN!

Having witnessed their behavior at a pool party this summer (smoking, drinking, and conversation sprinkled with lewd words) I'm thinking I'll pass of the 'Bible Study' though I'll probably be questioned as to why I didn't attend by guys. Maybe that will be an open door to share what the Bible teaches about how a Christian conducts themselves and how our witness to others isn't so much the words we speak but our actions other observe.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."