I think he meant that by the time you get embraced by a Setite you've already been indoctrinated.

Probably being embraced into their clan is the price you have to pay for all the favours you got from your sire to corrupt you. And by that time they can be quite sure, you follow their path, and not some silly humanity or something else...

There are three paths I've seen so far that have appealed to me but I've by no means looked into all the paths and know them that well.

The one that has come up a lot on this topic is the Path of Honourable Accord. I would choose this path because like many have stated already they want to keep their word and so do I. I've always tried my best to keep my promises to others, I hate owing anyone anything it makes me feel inferior and I think betrayal is the lowest of the low. I would try my best to live by that code and I hope I would manage it.

Path of Self Focus would probably be the one I would pick out of the three because it relies on knowing ones self and not someone knowing for me. I also like the fact that it acknowledges the need for being sociable and also the fact that it doesn't treat vamperism as an instant curse that corrupts the soul. It also shares quite a few things with the path of Honourable Accord.

Path of Metamorphosis is probably the one I would struggle with the most as I am quite compassionate and don't like causing discomfort to others but I do see a twisted logic to it in a very Mengele-esque kind of way. I honestly don't know if I could follow it but I do agree with the emphasis it places on knowledge.

You would make a supreme candidate for a Tzimisce...To make an appointment for the Embrace call 0 700...Nah, just kidding. But seriously, I appreciate your post, Eye. You thought it through.I respect the sentiment behind Path of Honorable Accord, but for me it is too formalized.Self Focus I plainly don't get. Methamorphosis is too much soulles for me. Torture? Not for me.I prefer Path with Instinct, too. Beast FTW. But for the sake of social graces I would go with Harmony.

You would make a supreme candidate for a Tzimisce...To make an appointment for the Embrace call 0 700...Nah, just kidding. But seriously, I appreciate your post, Eye. You thought it through.I respect the sentiment behind Path of Honorable Accord, but for me it is too formalized.Self Focus I plainly don't get. Methamorphosis is too much soulles for me. Torture? Not for me.I prefer Path with Instinct, too. Beast FTW. But for the sake of social graces I would go with Harmony.

Who knows maybe I would make a good Tzimisce, when one is ripped away from the confines that make them human anything is possible and what was once wrong is not so much of a taboo any more. After all what makes it unpalatable is my current morality and humanity. For them Kindred and Kine are just tools that can be used to reach the next stage of existence.

Yes, I see what you mean with the path of honourable accord it is rather stiff, I also don't like the fact that it placed emphasis on god for if I should take life. That really irks me for some reason which is why I found the Path of Self Focus to be the more palatable of the three I chose. In essence it is very alike with the path of honourable accord as it has a lot of emphasis on similar things:

Path of Self Focus Hierarchy of Sins & Ethics:

Path of Self-Focus Hierarchy of Sins

10 - Any foolish behaviour.9 - Laziness of mind, spirit or body.8 - Depending on others; failure to treat anyone as you would be treated yourself.7 - Lying; fighting the Beast when you should not; not fighting the Beast when you should.6 - Any evil behaviour.5 - Manipulating others for own gain; being greedy or egotistical.4 - Stealing; failure to practice your focus.3 - Improper use of combat.2 - Disbelief in a higher and greater existence; disrespectful of others.1 - Failure to keep your word; fighting dishonourably.

Ethics

- Forget everything - simply Be. Focus only upon what you are doing at the moment. Use chanting, t'ai chi and other methods to practice your focus. There is only Now. You cannot understand pain, temptation, and all other feelings except through feeling them.

- Action is focus. Thought of action is impure and inferior.

- Know yourself. Know when, and when not to fight the Beast. The Beast is part of you, and sometimes it must be unleashed. Be the Beast, but do not Become the Beast. Only by understanding it can inner peace be attained.

- Be not prideful or disrespectful. Overconfidence is weakness and illusion. It is best to be humble and confident. Respect all and treat others as you would be treated yourself.

- You must have honour. He who has no personal honour is worthless and lost to the world and himself.

- There is equal value in the arts of peace and the arts of war. Study them both.

- Judge all by their actions, not their words. Seek out wisdom and listen to those who have it.

- Be wary of other vampires. Vampires are creatures eclipsed by their own darkness. Their tragedy could be your own. Pity them, but also watch them carefully.

- Learn to love and understand that all things have their purpose - even evil things. Being of your own free will means you must choose between the two, and good must be your choice.

- Fight only when there is no other option, and fight with honour if you fight at all.

- Enjoy the company of others, but do not subsist in it. You must not let others define your value; you must do so yourself.

- Believe there is a greater purpose to everything. There is an Over soul which guides things. Your vampirism is a test unto you. It will not taint your soul or destroy you unless you let it do so.

taken from: http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/sabbatangel/Path.html

But the emphasis was more on allowing the individual to discover it for themselves rather than it being dictated to them by god. I also liked the fact that it didn't say there wasn't a god either it seemed to play a less important role and was just acknowledged.

Path of the Feral HeartHierarchy of Sins10 Hunting with means other than vampiric powers.9 Engaging in politics.8 Remaining in the presence of fire or sunlight, except to kill an enemy.7 Acting in an overly cruel manner.6 Failing to hunt when hungry.5 Failing to support your pack.4 Killing without need.3 Failing to follow one's instincts.2 Killing a creature other then for survival.1 Refusing to kill to survive.

Survival is your first concern. Politics or technology simply get in the way of the hunt. Learn to strike a balance with your Beast. Engage in the brutal actions necessary to survive, but retain your intelligence and cunning. The "natural world" is an illusion. All things must live according to their forms, and even civilization is natural because it is the form of humanity. Although fire can kill you, you must master your fear so that you can kill those who would use it against you. Whether running alone or with a pack, your loyalties must be absolute. You have no time for shifting allegiances.

Virtues: The Path of the Feral Heart draws upon the virtues of Conviction and Instinct.

For Harmony:

Quote :

Virtues: Harmonists espouse the virtues of Conscience and Instinct.Hierarchy of Sins10 Failing to spend at least two hours per night communing alone with nature.9 Killing an animal for any reason other than survival.8 Failing to hunt and drink blood whenever hungry (less than maximum blood points) and time permits.7 Acting in an overly cruel manner.6 Refusing to ride the wave as long as it is not detrimental to your own survival.5 Killing a mortal for any reason other than survival.4 Failing to provide safety for your loved ones and comrades.3 Allowing yourself to act too human or too bestial.2 Feeling guilty about doing something you needed to do.1 Refusing to kill when it is important for your survival.

Ethics of the Path Nothing existing in nature is innately evil—including vampires. Life should be respected. Human life should be taken only out of necessity, but you should never feel sorry for doing what is natural for you, like drinking blood. Never lose touch with your humanity or your vampiric nature. Both are part of your being. You will destroy yourself if you cannot accept that you are are no longer human; however the human part of you, your sanity, will be trampled by the animal if you do not balance the two.

I can see how those paths would appeal to a Gangrel, I can also see it appealing to a few Nossies as well . If I'm honest it's a bit too animalistic for my tastes though. I suppose the pack dynamics kinda sweep away with the need for it to involve interactions with others.

Thank you for the link I will definitely have a nose-ie around there and check out the other paths.

In the light of the vampire society, Self-focus seems out of place. It's society of intrique and manipulation. Self-focus doesn't fit in with it's thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not steal - that shit don't always fly!

In the light of the vampire society, Self-focus seems out of place. It's society of intrique and manipulation. Self-focus doesn't fit in with it's thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not steal - that shit don't always fly!

Self preservation will always bend someone's moral code, so if someone had to they probably would do it just like someone with humanity. I mean it's an ideal that someone would aspire to that doesn't always mean they reach it and maintain it perfectly all the time.

I feel this moral code would be bent quickly and often, and the pathee (c) would succumb to the beast soon.I mean I like it as well, I just don't think it would stand.

I think that would depend on the character of the person. I'd like to think it would be possible even if it would be difficult.

Dragatus wrote:

I'm a sceptic and I try to avoid showing strong emotion so the emphasis on observation, gathering information (and disciplines), and controling your emotions is an excellent match for me.

Ahh, I remember looking at this one for me it was a toss up between this one and the path of metamorphosis, in the end the latter won for me though mainly because of the fact that it doesn't allow you to destroy another on the path, that to me seems highly illogical if they are causing you trouble.

Everyone has to start at the beginning we've all been new to paths at one point so don't worry ^_^. Hell I know I don't know the paths half as well as other members of the forums. If you're interested in reading up start here: