--- Log opened Tue Mar 21 00:00:30 2006
00:03 -!- admiralaway is now known as admiralfrijole
00:27 -!- Will^Draven [n=willdrav@cpe-071-065-211-035.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood]
00:27 -!- Will^Draven [n=willdrav@cpe-071-065-211-035.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
01:26 -!- admiralfrijole is now known as admiralaway
04:03 -!- spaescowboy [n=rendrv@sjs-130-65-240-61.sjsu.edu] has quit []
06:07 -!- dutch [n=james@cpe-065-190-182-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
06:27 -!- john280z [n=johnm@user-0ce2hju.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #trilug
07:03 -!- dutch [n=james@cpe-065-190-182-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
07:09 -!- dutch [n=james@cpe-065-190-182-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
07:11 -!- john280z [n=johnm@user-0ce2hju.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
08:02 -!- dugan [n=dbc@pool-71-111-201-190.rlghnc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #trilug []
08:06 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has joined #trilug
08:23 -!- jucolt [n=vickeryj@216-166-233-146.clec.commercial.madisonriver.net] has joined #trilug
08:51 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has left #trilug []
08:56 -!- mshiltonj [n=shilton@152.52.0.2] has joined #trilug
09:02 -!- dugan [n=dbc@rdu-nat.rpath.com] has joined #trilug
09:02 -!- al_hemist [n=alchemis@cpe-066-026-081-081.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
09:03 -!- al_hemist [n=alchemis@cpe-066-026-081-081.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
09:04 -!- hunter [n=thm@jade.biology.duke.edu] has joined #trilug
09:05 -!- dugan [n=dbc@rdu-nat.rpath.com] has quit [Client Quit]
09:07 -!- dugan [n=dbc@rdu-nat.rpath.com] has joined #trilug
09:08 -!- Will^Draven [n=willdrav@cpe-071-065-211-035.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood]
09:09 -!- Will^Draven [n=willdrav@cpe-071-065-211-035.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
09:22 < mcpierce> What's the recommended path for upgrading Fedora? Clean install or upgrade install? I'm burning my FC5 CDs now.
09:23 -!- dugan [n=dbc@rdu-nat.rpath.com] has left #trilug []
09:24 < shaldannon> mcpierce: burn a gentoo cd, wipe the drive, install gentoo
09:24 < shaldannon> :}
09:24 < mcpierce> Haha
09:24 * mcpierce is a former Debian guy
09:24 < rarousse> mcpierce: don't you work at Red Hat?
09:24 < mcpierce> Yeah, but not on the distribution code. I'm on the GIS team.
09:25 * shaldannon thinks mcpierce needs to call Red Hat tech support
09:25 < mcpierce> Oh, gawd now...
09:25 * rarousse snickers
09:25 < mcpierce> s/now/no
09:25 < shaldannon> Nivex!
09:25 < shaldannon> :}
09:25 < mcpierce> How is Gentoo? Compared to Debian...
09:25 < shaldannon> never used Debiam
09:25 < shaldannon> err
09:25 < shaldannon> Debian
09:26 < mcpierce> The thing I find annoying with FC/RH is that I have to go out and find RPMs and build them in order to install little things, like Java.
09:27 -!- x-faktor [n=nwo@unaffiliated/x-faktor] has joined #trilug
09:27 * shaldannon snickers at the idea that Java is a "little thing"
09:27 < mcpierce> :)
09:27 < shaldannon> more like a bloated beached whale if you ask me
09:27 < mcpierce> LQTM
09:28 < mcpierce> It's a beached whale that's been very, very good to me these past 11 years. :)
09:28 < rarousse> http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/debian.jpg
09:28 < mcpierce> Heh.
09:28 < shaldannon> OUCH
09:28 < rarousse> I know, a bit old....
09:29 < rarousse> I had to dig up the demotivational posters
09:29 < jwbernin> mcpierce: for a GIS employee, you seem remarkably unqualified to work at Red Hat....
09:29 < shaldannon> actually had not seen it
09:29 < rarousse> shaldannon: here's the others http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/
09:29 < mcpierce> jwbernin: Really? How so? My job's writing Java.
09:30 < jwbernin> your comment about having to "go out and find RPMs and build them...." earlier.
09:30 < shaldannon> a Red Hat'er oughta be able to install Red Hat without calling tech support
09:30 < mcpierce> jwbernin: And?
09:30 < shaldannon> heck, a moron should be able to do it ;)
09:30 < jwbernin> you're either going around your ass to get to your elbow deliberately, or you're just not bothering to look for the answers within RH.
09:30 < mcpierce> shaldannon: Hey, I resemble that remakr.... :)
09:31 < mcpierce> jwbernin: Maybe I'm going the long way around. You have a shorter path to getting things like java2html, maven, etc. installed onto FC than building the RPMs from jpackage.org, I'm happy to hear them. I think that would be more constructive than just being insulting.
09:32 * shaldannon can think of few things more insulting that working at Red Hat and not knowing how to install one of its distros
09:32 < jwbernin> jpackage packages are rebuilt regularly for either FC or FE. I've seen yum used to install them on multiple machines.
09:32 < mcpierce> I never said I didn't know how to install it. I asked what's the better install path. ;)
09:32 < shaldannon> working at SCO would be one of them :)
09:33 < mcpierce> jwbernin: And things like java2html have licenses that restrict them from being distributed by jpackage. org, hence the reason why I had to build them myself.
09:33 < mcpierce> shaldannon: One guy i work with used to work for SCO. He said in a meeting once, "When I worked at SCO..." and the room went quiet. :)
09:33 < dutch> rarousse: hope you don't mind my looking :)
09:33 < shaldannon> hahaha
09:34 < dutch> rarousse: but, I did like what I saw..
09:34 < shaldannon> did they ostracize him as a spy?
09:34 < mcpierce> Hehe, no. But, as his office mate, I was contacted by HR^H^HThe Shiney Happy People to keep an eye on him...for *HIS* own good.
09:35 < shaldannon> lol
09:35 < shaldannon> is he still with you or have they locked him in a rubber room?
09:35 < rarousse> dutch: huh?
09:35 < dutch> mcpierce: he should have known better to start with
09:36 < mcpierce> He's still here. After the ... erm ... training classes, he's a productive member of our society.
09:36 < shaldannon> training eh...
09:36 < dutch> chinese training or something similiar
09:36 < shaldannon> like a "re-education camp?"
09:36 < mcpierce> shaldannon: We don't call them that anymore....
09:36 < dutch> :)
09:36 < shaldannon> lol
09:36 < mcpierce> I mean, we don't have them.
09:37 < shaldannon> right
09:37 < shaldannon> you've been talking too much to George W
09:37 * mcpierce is shocked and awed
09:37 < dutch> mcpierce: did they fly him outta the country for re-training ?
09:37 < jbroome> Misson accomplished!
09:38 < mcpierce> dutch: Do you mean to the Gitmo offices?
09:38 < dutch> that's what I was thinking or some middle eastern location
09:46 * shaldannon feels tummy rumbles
09:49 < mcpierce> shaldannon: Dude, I'd offer you some homemade bagels, but you're all the way out in NoVa.
09:49 < shaldannon> yeah
09:49 < shaldannon> sucks
09:49 < mcpierce> No Starbucks nearby?
09:49 * shaldannon shrugs
09:49 < shaldannon> dunno
09:49 < shaldannon> not a starbucks kinda guy
09:49 < shaldannon> that's kinda wussy, ya know?
09:50 < mcpierce> I never went to one before working in Reston, and then stopped in every day on the way to the office: I love the dark roast coffee and scones.
09:50 < mcpierce> Nah, not wussy.
09:50 < mcpierce> Un-American maybe.
09:50 < mcpierce> :)
09:50 < shaldannon> heh
09:50 < shaldannon> well, you know, it's a seattle sort of thing, so it's already questionable
09:51 < mcpierce> Hehe.
09:51 < mcpierce> How about Caribou Coffee?
09:51 < shaldannon> meh....
09:51 * shaldannon isn't a coffee person
09:51 < shaldannon> and in any case....
09:51 < shaldannon> just what kind of coffee do you get when you grind a caribou?
09:51 < mcpierce> Teh best is Cafe Cyclo in Raleigh - free wifi. :)
09:51 < mcpierce> Wet and messy.
09:52 < shaldannon> heh
10:01 -!- x-faktor [n=nwo@unaffiliated/x-faktor] has left #trilug []
10:03 -!- shawnh [n=shawn@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com] has joined #trilug
10:06 < mcpierce> Okay, I'm ready to take the plunge. FC5 upgrade on my laptop. Wish me luck. :)
10:06 < shawnh> i did it last night with no problems.
10:07 < shawnh> well
10:07 < mcpierce> shawnh: Excellent.
10:07 < shawnh> not an upgrade
10:07 < mcpierce> What did you do? Fresh install?
10:07 < shawnh> yeah
10:07 < shawnh> from isos
10:07 < mcpierce> I just burned the CDs and am going to try and upgrade first.
10:08 < mshiltonj> shawnh: you like fc5 so far?
10:08 < shawnh> mshiltonj: haven't really messed with it yet. will have some insight later tonight.
10:09 < mcpierce> Installer looks cool.
10:09 * mcpierce is more interested in the Java/KDE support.
10:09 < mshiltonj> There's a couple people here at work installing on their machines at this very moment.
10:09 < thunderwork> if I had any blank CD's, I would be installing right now
10:10 < mshiltonj> installing FC5, that is.
10:10 * shawnh punches gtk in the mouth
10:10 < mcpierce> LOL
10:10 * Mithrndir can't remember the last time he used a CD to install...
10:10 * mcpierce wipes coffee off the keyboard
10:10 < mshiltonj> I just put ubuntu on my machine a month or so ago. so, no upgrade just yet.
10:11 < mcpierce> Mithrndir: That was one of the bragging points about Debian - one install and you just apt-get-dist-upgrade to state on the edge.
10:11 * thunderwork finds blank CD's and runs out of excuses
10:12 * shawnh is still a debian user at home.
10:12 < Mithrndir> mcpierce: we're getting there. The FC5 installer uses a yum backend, which is the first step for the easy kind of network installs that people are used to with debian.
10:12 < shawnh> rhel4u3as here at work
10:13 < thunderwork> Mithrndir, and getting updates the first time around instead of installing an old package first and then an update
10:13 < mcpierce> Mithrndir: Is one of the long-term goals to eventually get to where you only install once from CD and thereafter do upgrades online?
10:22 < ScottCh> gawd, if that isn't a problem waiting to be solved. imo, Linux has always been painless to install - once. The next time I have a new or upgraded distro - either downloaded ISO or CD-ROM - the fun begins.
10:23 < mcpierce> Right.
10:23 < ScottCh> ...and that's been since slackware 1.0.
10:23 < Mithrndir> mcpierce: no clue. You've got as much internal access as I do though, go hunting. :)
10:23 < mcpierce> Mithrndir: Hehe.
10:23 * mcpierce tries google.rdu.redhat.com to no avail.
10:24 < Mithrndir> ScottCh: fwiw, I upgraded this laptop from core4 to core5 using anaconda, and everything seems to have just worked. The hardest part was waiting, because I was silly and did an everything install of core4 on here.
10:25 < mcpierce> Mithrndir: That's my concern: I added external stuff to yum and wonder how the upgrade will deal.
10:28 < shaldannon> isn't that the point of apt-get, portage, yum, etc? to do incremental upgrades online?
10:29 < mcpierce> shaldannon: AFAIK, yum doesn't do that currently. It would be nice, though.
10:30 < Mithrndir> mcpierce: actually, since anaconda uses yum now, the fc5 yum has a decent chance of being able to do so. I'd ask internally.
10:30 < mcpierce> Mithrndir: K. I'll see who I can ask about it.
10:32 < Mithrndir> mcpierce: I've got external stuff on here too, nothing complained, but I was very selective about what external repositories I used.
10:33 < mcpierce> Mithrndir: Did you use stuff like dag, etc?
10:34 < Mithrndir> yup. and freshrpms occasionally.
10:34 < mcpierce> And the upgrade was fine with them? Those are all I've added to mine.
10:37 < Mithrndir> nothing puked afaict.
10:37 < mcpierce> Cool. My fingers are crossed.
10:38 < mcpierce> So far, though, it's pretty cool looking.
10:38 * mcpierce is dazzled by bangles and beads
10:38 * shaldannon hands mcpierce a mirror
10:38 < mcpierce> "Ooooooooh, pretty."
10:38 * mcpierce turns it around and starts screaming!
10:39 < mcpierce> "No, not the Scary Man! Not the Scary man again!"
10:39 < shaldannon> make the bad man stop
10:39 < mcpierce> Ow.
10:40 -!- dutch [n=james@cpe-065-190-182-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
10:40 -!- mode/#trilug [+o Nivex] by ChanServ
10:40 -!- Nivex changed the topic of #trilug to: www.trilug.org || Next mtg 13-Apr @ 1900, Xen and the art of Virtualization | "/msg tribot list" for list of plugins
10:41 -!- mode/#trilug [-o Nivex] by Nivex
10:47 < ScottCh> Mithrndir: I'm currently using Ubuntu breezy on my home desktop machine. Whenever I do an incremental update, it reminds me that there's a new release (breezy). Now dapper's on its way. I'd love it if there was a way to download the new ISO and say "go" to change releases.
10:49 < crimsun> ScottCh: as in download the iso, burn it to a cd, insert it, and click Upgrade when prompted?
10:49 < crimsun> that's in Flight 5
10:49 < crimsun> now if you're referring to FC5, I have nfi
10:49 < mcpierce> You can also point apt to your CD as one package source.
10:49 < mcpierce> The problem is it always expects a CD to be there.
10:50 < crimsun> alternately, just s/breezy/dapper/ and update && dist-upgrade
10:52 < ScottCh> My experience has been that there's always some hassles. I've downloaded packages (mostly using their installation tool) that weren't part of the release. Will they still work? I never know exactly where the process will fail, but it always hits a snag or six.
10:52 < ScottCh> Still, it does sound from your description that they're getting closer to the ideal.
10:53 < crimsun> well, we can't ever account for extra-repo packages
10:53 < crimsun> there are just way too many possible snags
10:53 < crimsun> even within universe and multiverse, with like 18000 packages, we have issues
10:54 < ScottCh> With redhat 2.1 up to 9, I can't think of a time I didn't eventually do a backup of stuff to preserve, wipe disk an clean install.
10:54 < Mithrndir> crimsun / ScottCh: the process I used was to boot using the kernel and initrd from the installer (booting from the CD would get you the same effect), select 'upgrade', and wait.
10:55 < crimsun> if you get snags on Canonical-hosted packages, though, that's definitely a bug that we need to fix
10:55 < Mithrndir> I haven't observed any ill effects from doing things that way, and I've got another system that I did a clean install and I can't tell any differences in terms of any bugs I've ran into.
10:59 < shawnh> is there an application similar to tomboy for kde?
11:01 < mcpierce> Have you looked for ktomboy? :)
11:01 < ScottCh> crimsun: thanks for the info, that sounds encouraging.
11:02 < shaldannon> http://bash.org/?629500 shaldannon: I remember when that wasn't something you could brag about.
11:04 -!- mcpierce [n=dpierce@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #trilug
11:04 < shaldannon> ScottCh: what? being a virgin?
11:04 < ScottCh> bingo
11:04 < ScottCh> (as opposed to bango, I guess)
11:05 < shaldannon> or bongo
11:05 < mcpierce> Wasn't that her name-o?
11:05 < shaldannon> ouch
11:05 < mcpierce> That one actually hurt, didn't it?
11:05 < shaldannon> like a hammer to the head
11:06 < mcpierce> Dude, I'm telling you, just drink coffee.
11:06 < shaldannon> I have enough headaches without adding caffeine
11:06 * mcpierce whispers, "Put some whiskey in it..."
11:06 < shaldannon> riiiiiiiiiiiiiiigth
11:06 < mcpierce> :)
11:07 < shaldannon> and as if caffeine induced headaches weren't bad enough, now you want me hung over
11:07 < mcpierce> It's all part of a complete breakfast.
11:08 < shaldannon> if that's your idea of a complete bereakfast, we need to get you a nutritionist
11:08 < shaldannon> that may have the grain group, or the vegetable group, but that's it
11:08 < shaldannon> you need some fruit and some meat
11:08 < mcpierce> Wine and jerky.
11:08 * mcpierce are smart
11:09 < shaldannon> that somehow just doesn't have the same ring as say, chips and beer
11:09 < mcpierce> Hehe.
11:09 < mcpierce> My lunches this week consist of turkey and swiss sangwedges, an egg and a yogurt. I actually eat reasonably healthy for lunch and breakfast.
11:10 < shaldannon> amazing
11:10 < mcpierce> I also hit the gym daily. Then I screw it all up by eating 1/4 gallon of ice cream at night.
11:10 < shaldannon> what was that quote? "beer. so much more than a breakfast drink."
11:10 < mcpierce> Or, like this week, birthday cake.
11:10 < mcpierce> "Beer - the breakfast of ex-champions."
11:10 * shaldannon feels bloated in sympathy
11:11 < shaldannon> I eat half a cup of ice cream and lactose intolerance kicks in full force
11:11 < mcpierce> Ugh.
11:11 < shaldannon> yeah
11:11 < mcpierce> Seriously, ugh. Ice cream is the one vice I enjoy.
11:11 < shaldannon> that's what my neighbors say when it happens too :)
11:11 < shaldannon> (ugh)
11:11 < mcpierce> And, speaking of all this - I'm off to the gym. BBIAB.
11:11 < shaldannon> cya
11:16 -!- dutch [n=james@cpe-065-190-182-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
11:21 -!- mindCrime [n=niki@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]"]
11:32 -!- mindCrime [n=niki@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #trilug
11:35 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has joined #trilug
11:37 < elfick> today's trivia: what is the name of the model of connector used for ATX power?
11:37 < Nivex> molex
11:38 < elfick> oh, so close... that is the manufacturer
11:38 < Nivex> nuts
11:38 < Nivex> i'd have to go to google at this point
11:38 < fatstrat> alfred.
11:38 * fatstrat ducks
11:45 < fatstrat> "ATX Style"? That doesn't sound right though... (back to google)
11:51 < shaldannon> fatstrat: mcpierce tells me you want to become a lesbian
11:51 < shaldannon> is this true?
11:52 * fatstrat looks down in shame*
11:52 < fatstrat> yes, I want to munch carpets.
11:52 < shaldannon> what's to be ashamed about?
11:52 < fatstrat> lol
11:52 < shaldannon> we understand if you like butts
11:53 < fatstrat> :-)
11:53 < shaldannon> :}
11:55 < elfick> just so you don't die of anticipation, it is Mini-Fit Jf. (tm)
11:55 < elfick> s/Jf./Jr./
11:55 < fatstrat> ahhhh... :D
11:56 < fatstrat> not a very manly name. ;)
11:57 < iank> Mini-Fit Jr.!?
11:57 < Nivex> I think elfick is funnin' us
11:58 < iank> I always just call it 'that !@$% thing wont un-plug'...
11:58 < Nivex> hahaha
12:06 < elfick> I think it is really just "Mini-Fit" but digikey refers to it as Mini-Fit Jr. (since there is a Mini-Fit Sr.)
12:08 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
12:08 < elfick> no, I was right the first time, it is Mini-Fit Jr.
12:09 -!- bpt [n=bpt@adsl-221-39-214.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit []
12:10 -!- bkjones [n=bkj@targe.CS.Princeton.EDU] has joined #trilug
12:12 < elfick> unfortunately I can't just link to it since it seems molex.com uses jsp
12:19 < shaldannon> someone explain why AJAX is good again :)
12:21 < jwbernin> 'cause it makes bathroom surfaces sparkly clean?
12:23 < Nivex> shaldannon: less network overhead. send only data you need, not whole web page over again
12:26 * shaldannon concurs with jwbernin
12:26 < shaldannon> how to make a web page completely un-bookmark-able in 3 easy steps
12:27 < crimsun> boo to bookmarks anyhow, yay to browser history
12:27 < crimsun> :p
12:27 < Nivex> this is why Google Maps has a seperate "Make this a link" sort of feature
12:27 * shaldannon clears crimsun's browser history
12:27 < crimsun> (specifically, location bar history)
12:28 < crimsun> bah, I can always restore it. It's backed up weekly into git.
12:28 < crimsun> (yes, I'm that insane)
12:29 * shaldannon shakes his head and goes back to work
12:29 < mshiltonj> @lart shaldannon for dissing the great and powerful AJAX! Do not look behind curtain!
12:29 * Tribot buries shaldannon in angry stray cats for dissing the great and powerful AJAX! Do not look behind curtain!
12:30 < mshiltonj> AJAXy things are applications, not pages.
12:30 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has joined #trilug
12:30 < mshiltonj> You don't bookmark a particular dialog in a local application.
12:31 < shaldannon> dialog, no....but in the past i've, say, used macros to set up WordPerfect to a certain initial state
12:32 < shaldannon> which is analogous
12:32 < shaldannon> say I want to bookmark a certain stage in an application at which to start working every time...
12:33 < shaldannon> For example, say I want the template editor in the dwb to always come up with a predetermined template :)
12:33 < mshiltonj> that would be a preference or a configuration option.
12:33 < shaldannon> hmmmm
12:34 < mshiltonj> that the application manages.
12:34 * mshiltonj sips AJAX koolaid
12:34 < mshiltonj> well, sorta.
12:34 < shaldannon> sorta?
12:34 < mshiltonj> I've only done a bit of AJAXy things.
12:35 < mshiltonj> very different from regular web apps.
12:35 < shaldannon> wasn't your dynamic content query form in the category of AJAX?
12:35 < mshiltonj> closer to "real" programming
12:35 < shaldannon> way back in the day
12:35 -!- dutch [n=james@cpe-065-190-182-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:36 < mshiltonj> No, it was all hidden frames and javascript driven, but not AJAXy (meaning: DOM manipulation and XmlHttpRequest)
12:36 < shaldannon> I see
12:37 < mshiltonj> that content query thing was an abomination.
12:37 < shaldannon> heh
12:37 < mshiltonj> blech
12:37 < shaldannon> looked pretty slick to me
12:37 < mshiltonj> yeah, well, try and maintain it after you hadn't seen it for nine months.
12:37 < shaldannon> ah, well...yeah that could present issues
12:38 < mshiltonj> I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, and I did it to myself!
12:38 < shaldannon> that's what comments are for :)
12:38 < shaldannon> and wikis....although wikis are new since you wrote it
12:38 < mshiltonj> what are these "comments" you speak of?
12:38 < shaldannon> hahaha
12:38 < shaldannon> if you still have my treemenu code in the codebase, go look at it
12:38 < shaldannon> :)
12:39 < mshiltonj> I'd rather not. *shudder*
12:39 * shaldannon is a comment fiend
12:39 < shaldannon> see...I commented it so that you could understand what I did and why
12:40 < shaldannon> the comments should actually be fairly clear
12:40 < shaldannon> I had a bad enough time figuring out the code when I first worked on it...I didn't want to be in the position of wasting days figuring it out again
12:45 -!- YanceySlide [n=YanceySl@tor/session/x-afac82125fd51228] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
12:45 -!- YanceySlide [i=id@tor/session/x-ebcd34d4b44a7741] has joined #trilug
13:01 < mcpierce> W00t!
13:01 < mcpierce> The FC5 upgrade finished without any hardware catching fire!
13:01 < mcpierce> Today *IS* a good day. :)
13:03 -!- daguz [n=leo@208-1-63-34.celito.net] has joined #trilug
13:03 < bkjones> I once wrote a fire starting application that worked in the arctic tundra using 5 lines of Ruby.
13:04 < bkjones> unfortunately, the company I sold it to for $4 million deployed it on a handheld, supercharged unit that was water-cooled.
13:04 < bkjones> No Bueno(tm)
13:04 < mcpierce> Luddite.
13:04 < mcpierce> :)
13:06 < thunderwork> ok I hereby declare FC5 is teh suck (when things like X11 work in RHEL4 and then FC5 takes two steps back, that sucks)
13:06 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
13:07 < jucolt> I thought FC was bleeding edge and was supposed to be more or less broken
13:07 < jucolt> and once the problems were tracked down and fixed, there would be a RHEL release
13:07 < thunderwork> yeah well I agree about the broken part
13:08 < jucolt> I haven't used any redhat in a while, but I thought FC was more or less akin to Debian Unstable
13:08 < jucolt> or perheps even experimental
13:09 < thunderwork> "Fedora Core is a free operating system that offers the best combination of stable and cutting-edge software that exists in the free software world."
13:09 < jucolt> hmm, nothing about being broken
13:09 < bkjones> lol
13:09 < thunderwork> then from their faq "Because Fedora is the best collection of stable and innovative software available in the open source world."
13:10 < thunderwork> I would expect it to not have any show stoppers or major setbacks from previous releases with a description like that
13:10 < bkjones> "Fedora Core is a broken operating system that offers the best combination of stable and broken software that (mostly) exists in the free and broken software world".
13:10 < jucolt> http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/
13:10 < bkjones> how did you not see this coming?
13:10 < jucolt> This can result in a very "unstable" system which contains packages that cannot be installed due to missing libraries, dependencies that cannot be fulfilled etc. Use it at your own risk!
13:10 < thunderwork> @bkjones++
13:11 < jucolt> I used to run debian unstable all the time
13:11 < thunderwork> I wanted to try FC5 to get a taste for what was coming in RHEL5 later this year
13:11 < thunderwork> luckily I tried this on a box I didn't care about
13:11 < jucolt> well you got your taste -- the stuff that works will probably make it into RHEL
13:11 < mcpierce> I used to run testing. Stopped when the kernels no longer supported my laptop PC card system out of the box.
13:12 < thunderwork> RHEL5 will default to runlevel 3 then? ;-p
13:12 < bkjones> fc is like tasting the wort of what will later be beer.
13:12 < jucolt> I run debian stable (for the most part, sometimes I grab packages out of testing or unstable) but I roll my own kernels
13:12 < shaldannon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
13:13 < mcpierce> jucolt: I used to do that, but stopped when the kernels were more compatible with my hardware OOTB.
13:13 < shaldannon> seems to me that the Luddites were rather in the same boat as modern IT workers....changes were making it hard for them to make a living
13:13 < bkjones> thanks shaldannon - I thought Luddite was yet another counter material.
13:13 < bkjones> or tile or something.
13:13 < shaldannon> haha
13:14 < jucolt> mcpierce, I grab the "ootb" configuration and use it to roll my own, but I use the kpkg system, so it all still fits in ok
13:14 < jucolt> really, I only do it so that I have an up to date kernel source tree on hand
13:14 < jucolt> well, one that matches my current kernel
13:14 < mcpierce> :)
13:14 < jucolt> that and trying to make software suspend 2
13:15 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has joined #trilug
13:15 < shaldannon> interestingly, they have a link to offshoring in that article
13:15 < shaldannon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshoring
13:16 < tarheelcoxn> work in food service. you can't offshore that
13:16 < tarheelcoxn> :P
13:16 < mcpierce> Housekeeping.
13:16 < fatstrat> ...or prostitution...
13:16 < mcpierce> Are you bragging again?
13:16 < tarheelcoxn> daaaaaaaamn
13:16 < fatstrat> hey, when you make $6.25/hr you gotta brag...
13:16 < hunter> Car nuts: Any thoughts on http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?width=205%2F&ratio=50&diameter=16&sortCode=44900&minSpeedRating=V&ratio=50&width=205%2F&diameter=16&minLoad=S&vehicleSearch=true&startIndex=0&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&performance=UHP&performance=HP&performance=GT&performance=PAS&performance=GTAS&manufacturer=BFGoodrich&manufacturer=Dunlop&manufacturer=Goodyear&manufacturer=Kumho&manufacturer=Michelin&manufacturer=P
13:16 < hunter> irelli&manufacturer=Sumitomo&manufacturer=Uniroyal&manufacturer=Yokohama&speed_rating=VR&speed_rating=ZR&speed_rating=WR&speed_rating=YR&RunFlat=All&x=81&y=9
13:16 < hunter> Oops. CRAP.
13:16 < Nivex> @pastebin
13:16 < Tribot> Nivex: 'pastebin' could be http://trilug.pastebin.ca/
13:17 < hunter> Sorry.
13:17 < thunderwork> @lart hunter
13:17 * Tribot beats hunter senseless with a Dvorak keyboard
13:17 < mcpierce> 'strat: You've raised your rates again?
13:17 < shaldannon> lol
13:17 < mcpierce> hunter: tinyurl.com ;)
13:17 < Nivex> what I meant was tinyurl. I have NEVER seen a URL that long.
13:17 < shaldannon> mcpierce: I guess lesbians get paid more
13:17 < shaldannon> :}
13:17 < mcpierce> Nivex: It's not the size of the URL, but how you cut and paste it, that matters.
13:18 < fatstrat> mcpierce: yep
13:18 < mcpierce> shaldannon: LOL!
13:18 < bkjones> @list
13:18 < Tribot> bkjones: Admin, Alias, BZFlag, Babelfish, Channel, ChannelStats, Config, Ebay, Factoids, Freenode, Fun, Http, Insult, Internet, Karma, Lart, Markov, Math, Misc, Nickometer, Owner, Praise, Quote, RSS, RootWarner, Seen, Services, ShrinkUrl, Time, URL, Unix, User, and Weather
13:18 < bkjones> @unix
13:18 < Tribot> bkjones: (unix [ ...]) -- Command dispatcher for the Unix plugin. Use 'list Unix' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Unix' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's command to use.
13:18 < tarheelcoxn> ShrinkUrl?
13:18 < hunter> http://tinyurl.com/nwwol
13:18 < bkjones> @list unix
13:18 < Tribot> bkjones: crypt, errno, fortune, pid, progstats, spell, and wtf
13:18 < mcpierce> http://www.wftv.com/sports/8141328/detail.html
13:18 < mcpierce> Here's a URL to give you a chuckle this afternoon. :)
13:18 < shaldannon> @UNIX cat /etc/passwd |grep william
13:18 < Tribot> shaldannon: Error: cat is not a valid command in this plugin.
13:19 < shaldannon> fooey
13:19 < shaldannon> @UNIX spell shudup
13:19 < Tribot> shaldannon: I could not find an alternate spelling for "shudup"
13:19 < thunderwork> @UNIX getent passwd william
13:19 < Tribot> thunderwork: Error: getent is not a valid command in this plugin.
13:19 < hunter> So, Car people - any thoughts on http://tinyurl.com/nwwol :)
13:19 hunter: i generally hear good things about the kuhmos
13:19 < Nivex> @list unix
13:19 < Tribot> Nivex: crypt, errno, fortune, pid, progstats, spell, and wtf
13:19 < Nivex> @progstats
13:19 < Tribot> Nivex: Process ID 16852 running as user "kjotte" and as group "440" from directory "/usr/local/supybot" with the command line "/usr/bin/supybot Tribot.conf". Running on Python 2.3.5 (#2, Sep 4 2005, 22:01:42) [GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13)].
13:19 < hunter> jtower: A friend of mine likes them as well.
13:20 < hunter> jtower: I'm surprised by the prices though.
13:20 < shaldannon> @unix wtf
13:20 < Tribot> shaldannon: (wtf [is] ) -- Returns wtf is. 'wtf' is a *nix command that first appeared in NetBSD 1.5. In most *nices, it's available in some sort of 'bsdgames' package.
13:20 my front tires are kuhmos, they did fine at vir
13:20 < shaldannon> meh
13:20 < tarheelcoxn> @wtf is kuhmo
13:20 < Tribot> tarheelcoxn: Gee... I don't know what kuhmo means...
13:20 my rears are falken 451, also very good tire for the price
13:20 < tarheelcoxn> Tribot must not like cars
13:20 < Nivex> kuhmo is a tire manufacturer. I just got a set on my saturn a couple months ago.
13:21 < shaldannon> from the wikipedia offshoring article: "the total number of jobs increase in both countries since those workers in the origin country that lost their job can move to higher-value jobs in which their country has a comparative advantage"
13:21 < shaldannon> I say bull
13:22 < shaldannon> what happens when you ship all the high paying high intelligence jobs overseas?
13:22 < tarheelcoxn> brain drain
13:22 < jucolt> they don't ship the high paying jobs overseas
13:22 < hunter> nice theory
13:22 < hunter> The "can move"
13:22 < shaldannon> they ship programming jobs overseas
13:22 < thunderwork> jucolt, tell that to all the IBM programmers that are out of work
13:22 < jucolt> since the people making the big bucks are the ones that decide what jobs to ship overseas
13:22 < shaldannon> they just don't ship the salary
13:23 < jucolt> thunderwork, oh, I mean *really* high paying
13:23 < hunter> Right - so the 30,000 people ford fired are suddenly brain surgeons and web designers?
13:23 < mcpierce> Well, web designers.
13:23 < shaldannon> hunter: according to whoever wrote the article
13:23 < mcpierce> How much does it take to make HTML, really...
13:23 < mcpierce> j/k
13:23 < thunderwork> jucolt, "high paying" is when one person alone makes more than the average *combined* family income in your region
13:23 < mcpierce> :)
13:23 * shaldannon concurs with thunderwork
13:23 < hunter> Thats the problem with wikipediea really - not that anyone can create content, but that we can't easily humiliate them for it.
13:24 < jucolt> thunderwork, to me, high paying means an order of magnitude more than I make
13:24 < thunderwork> hunter, sure you can. go to the talk page for the guy who made that cruddy edit and LART them for it
13:24 < hunter> jtower: I don't see falken as a brand at tire rack
13:24 < thunderwork> jucolt, that's very sad
13:24 < mcpierce> jucolt: It's an old adage: "Rich people make more than me, poor people less."
13:24 < shaldannon> jucolt: so by that theory....Paul Allen is a pauper
13:24 < thunderwork> most people in this channel are riding the gravy train
13:24 < shaldannon> hear! hear!
13:24 hunter: just like you don't see pepsi at mcdonalds
13:24 < jucolt> thunderwork, ok, let me amend
13:25 < hunter> jtower: I have to work really hard not to buy tires based on how pleasing the tread pattern works.
13:25 < hunter> You heard it here first folks - I'm an idiot... :)
13:25 < jucolt> they don't send the $500k + jobs overseas because the people making that much are the ones making the decsions as to what jobs to send overeseas
13:25 < shaldannon> hunter: I think pasting that url told us that ;)
13:26 < mcpierce> shald: LOL!
13:26 < thunderwork> jucolt, that is not true anymore either.
13:26 hunter: you mean, heard from you first. we've been hearing "hunter is an idiot" for a while now
13:26 < jucolt> thunderwork, really?
13:26 < tarheelcoxn> s/'m an idiot/ value form over function/g
13:26 < jucolt> they are shipping executive jobs overseas?
13:26 < thunderwork> jucolt, many medical specialists have seen their jobs offshored as well
13:26 * shaldannon wishes
13:26 < thunderwork> surgeons, radiologists, etc
13:26 < hunter> jucolt: yes - what do you think happened when MB bought chrysler
13:26 < shaldannon> we should export the execs
13:27 < jucolt> hunter, that's not offshoring, that's inshoring
13:27 < jucolt> all the US based Chrysler jobs are now overseas
13:27 < mshiltonj> You can't offshore Electrictian/Plumbers/HVAC --- those have apprenticeships and decent (though unremarkable) pay.
13:27 < shaldannon> send them to africa where they can run real countries instead of just companies
13:27 < mshiltonj> that's what my second career will be.
13:27 < hunter> There's only one all season tire listed on my search. I'm surprised by that.
13:27 < jucolt> thunderwork, ah, I wasn't thinking about the non business world jobs
13:27 < jucolt> sports players, expensive doctors
13:27 < jucolt> etc.
13:27 < rarousse> I've got a set of Kuhmo tires on both my cars.
13:27 < tarheelcoxn> wtf is "inshoring"
13:28 < jucolt> good point
13:28 < jucolt> tarheelcoxn, made up word
13:28 < shaldannon> hmmmm...there's an idea...let's export the professional sports players :)
13:28 < jucolt> same as "insourcing"
13:28 < thunderwork> tarheelcoxn, inshoring can be when we (the US) take on jobs from overseas. More realistically it is H1B visa workers.
13:28 < hunter> BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 -- wonders if that tire can really be worth the extra money
13:28 < rarousse> my company outsourced me to IBM.
13:29 < jucolt> for instance, JP Morgans Chase has just gone through a massive set of "insourcing"
13:29 -!- bkjones [n=bkj@targe.CS.Princeton.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:29 < mcpierce> I've got a new word: "doubtsourcing" where the threat of losing your job shakes up moral and results in management outsourcing your job...
13:29 < jucolt> they trashed their IBM contract and brought all the jobs in house
13:29 < shaldannon> of course....one job that apparently is now in permanent demand is US military private
13:29 < jucolt> ah, but does that count as an overseas job?
13:29 * tarheelcoxn looks for the thermostat
13:29 < jucolt> or just an in country job with 90% travel?
13:30 < shaldannon> jucolt: maybe except that the pay is from a domestic source
13:30 < shaldannon> I'd say 90% travel
13:30 < shaldannon> long hours, away from home, low pay, and the chance of getting killed
13:30 < shaldannon> what a job
13:31 < jucolt> on the plus side, you don't have any time to spend your money
13:31 < shaldannon> yeah
13:31 < jucolt> so if you don't die, and you didn't blow it all on hookers and blow, you will have a lot of money to spend on hookers and blow when you get home
13:31 < shaldannon> unless you're married and the wife spent it all
13:31 < jucolt> ah
13:32 < shaldannon> then you're just screwed
13:32 * pakrat queues up LoA "Blowing up your Mind."
13:40 < thunderwork> OK after my disappointment with FC5 I am finally going to jump on the Ubuntu bandwagon and give that a try
13:41 < pakrat> Ah yes... I'm going to have to dink with ubuntu to see if it is appropriate for computers for the future step sprogs.
13:41 -!- jtickle_ [n=jtickle@ip-152010153041.ess.appstate.edu] has joined #trilug
13:41 * pakrat intends to inflict selinux on the sprogs as well.
13:42 < hunter> Looks like my preferences yield a "Grand Touring Summer" type tire.
13:45 * shaldannon slaps hunter around with a Firestone (R) Wilderness ATX
13:47 < thunderwork> OK kubuntu installer is spartan but very straightforward at this point... much nicer than Debian
13:48 < hunter> shaldannon: what?
13:48 * pakrat watches hunter blowout and lose control.
13:52 -!- jtickle_ is now known as jtickle_work
13:54 < thunderwork> OK it's kind of dumb that kubuntu doesn't tell you how many packages it is going to install, how much space it is going to consume, or how long it is likely to take. come to think of it, it didn't even ask me what sort of packages I wanted. :-/
13:55 < mcpierce> Anybody here well versed with apache?
13:55 < hunter> middling
13:56 < mcpierce> I've a server that's getting this error: "Allowed memory size of 8388608 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 223 bytes)" It's in my Jinzora media server.
13:56 < mcpierce> How do I increase the memory size for a process in Apache?
13:56 -!- YanceySlide [i=id@tor/session/x-ebcd34d4b44a7741] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:57 < hunter> By default, you don't - it should use all available memory, as far as I know.
13:57 < hunter> But you may be hitting a feature I'm not familiar with.
13:57 < mcpierce> [napoleon_dynamite]Dang.[/napoleon_dynamite]
13:57 < jwbernin> if that was a PHP page, it would be in php.ini - look for something similar in jinzora.
13:57 < mcpierce> Maybe it's a config option in Jinzora then?
13:58 < hunter> That would be _my_ next guess. I know nothing of this Jinzora of which you speak.
13:58 < mcpierce> K.
14:00 < mshiltonj> why don't you choke on a degroded piece of crap you friggin idiot.
14:01 < mshiltonj> /napolean_dynamite
14:01 < mcpierce> Do the chickens have large talons?
14:01 < mshiltonj> funny movie.
14:01 < mshiltonj> have you watched the director's commentary? it's funny how much of that movie is based in reality.
14:01 < mcpierce> It's one I've not yet added to my DVD collection.
14:02 < mshiltonj> it makes the whole thing even funnier.
14:03 < mcpierce> Dang. Can't find a memory setting anywhere... :-/
14:05 < pakrat> thunderwork: I thought that was the Windoze or macos way as well.
14:14 < thunderwork> kubuntu installed nicely/easily (good for someone who doesn't know what they are doing in linux) but is also retarded about X11
14:16 < thunderwork> 640x480
14:16 < tarheelcoxn> ewww
14:17 < mshiltonj> ubuntu lame-o install got my resolution right.
14:17 < tarheelcoxn> you don't have some esoteric video card, do you?
14:17 < thunderwork> Intel 845G Extreme Graphics Video
14:18 < thunderwork> the box is an IBM model 8305
14:20 < crimsun> more than likely misdetection of vrefresh
14:20 < crimsun> got the /var/log/Xorg.0.log handy?
14:21 < thunderwork> FC5 correctly detected video chipset *and* monitor ... kubuntu was giving less info in the GUI... lemme look
14:25 < tripaste> "thunderwork" at 192.168.77.7 pasted "Xorg.0.log - kubuntu on IBM 8305 running 640x480" at http://members.trilug.org/tripaste/254
14:31 < crimsun> are those values for the L200P correct (hsync 28.00-33.00 kHz and vrefresh 43.00-72.00 Hz)?
14:31 < mcpierce> jwbernin: Thanks for the tip (re: php.ini). Changed the mem value and it cleared up things on the server.
14:32 < jwbernin> np. I've had that happen to me in Gallery before when I was being stupid and not listening to what the setup sequence told me.
14:32 < mcpierce> :)
14:32 < jwbernin> gee... gallery tells me I'm gonan run out of memory, I ignore it, I run out of memory...
14:32 < jwbernin> imagine that.
14:32 < jwbernin> "stupid app!"
14:33 < mcpierce> Anybody running a streaming media server? If so, what software are you using?
14:33 < mcpierce> I like Jinzora but wonder if there's not something else to compare...
14:34 < thunderwork> crimsun, ok some googling found this
14:34 < thunderwork> MAXIMUM HORIZONTAL FREQUENCY (low; high) (kHz): 31KHz; 92KHz
14:34 < thunderwork> VERTICAL REFRESH RATE (low; high) (Hz): 56Hz; 85Hz
14:35 < thunderwork> so apparently the numbers are bogus in the xorg.conf
14:35 < jwbernin> http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/21/coldwar.trove/index.html
14:36 -!- mcpierce [n=dpierce@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has left #trilug []
14:36 -!- mcpierce [n=dpierce@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #trilug
14:37 < mcpierce> Damned CTRL-W.
14:37 < thunderwork> jeez I don't think it ever specified a refresh rate in xorg.conf
14:38 < tripaste> "thunderwork" at 192.168.77.7 pasted "here is the original xorg.conf ... clearly I need to tweak it" at http://members.trilug.org/tripaste/255
14:39 < crimsun> thunderwork: no, it doesn't.
14:41 < crimsun> you need to add HorizSync 31-92 and VertRefresh 56-85 to Section "Monitor"
14:45 < thunderwork> ok that makes the fonts ugly... I need to tweak it some more...
15:04 -!- JasonF_ [n=jay@cialis.oldos.org] has joined #trilug
15:04 -!- JasonF [n=jay@no-sources/jasonf] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:07 < thunderwork> screw this
15:07 < thunderwork> 2006 is *not* the year of Linux on the Desktop
15:07 < fatstrat> *sigh*
15:07 < shaldannon> wow, who
15:07 * fatstrat is waiting for that year.
15:07 < shaldannon> wow, who'd'a thunk?
15:08 < thunderwork> well... when one of the core components (X11) continues to be a nuisance, even to seasoned Linux professionals, then it's not ready yet
15:15 -!- YanceySlide [i=id@tor/session/x-0813dc5da1f8a1f7] has joined #trilug
15:17 -!- JasonF_ is now known as JasonF
15:43 < shawnh> any of you guys ever used fanout or any similar tool that runs commands on multiple boxes via ssh?
15:43 < Mithrndir> shawnh: I've seen dsh used before
15:43 < Mithrndir> but not set it up myself.
15:45 < shawnh> Mithrndir: taking a look now.
15:45 < jwbernin> I played with ClusterSSH at one point, but with only two machines it wasn't all that interesting.
15:45 < thunderwork> last time I had to do something like that I wrote a bash script that did it
15:45 < thunderwork> worked well
15:46 < thunderwork> took two argument... filename with one host per line, and the command to run on all the hosts
15:46 < jwbernin> yeah, I've seen an expect script do that for ~300 machines quite cleanly.
15:46 < thunderwork> I didn't really need to use expect... used keys for authentication and didn't ever run anything that interactive via ssh
15:47 < jwbernin> *nod*
15:47 < thunderwork> perl does have some nice ssh facilities in cpan
15:47 * shawnh likes to avoid reinventing the wheel
15:47 < thunderwork> if I were going to do it over again I'd do it in perl and parallelize the connections
15:48 < thunderwork> shawnh, in my case it was faster to write the script than to browse freshmeat, find the right tool, and learn how to set it up and use it
15:48 < jwbernin> for f in `cat filename`; do ssh $f cmd; done
15:49 < thunderwork> well it was a little more complex than that
15:49 < thunderwork> I pinged all the hosts first and skipped the ones that didn't return echo
15:49 < thunderwork> because there were hundreds of hosts in the cluster, it was very common for a few to be down for maintenance/repairs
15:49 < jwbernin> you mean you did it sanely? blasphemy!
15:50 < thunderwork> I wanted to release it under GPL just because I thought it was handy but $EMPLOYER wouldn't have it
15:50 < jwbernin> you must *always* use insane brute force and massive ignorance! :)
15:50 < thunderwork> I still wish I had done it in perl with threads but it would have taken me a lot longer
15:51 < thunderwork> pushing an ad-hoc command out to 300+ hosts in serial sucks
15:51 < jwbernin> that's what tee+screen is for
15:51 < thunderwork> these days I hardly have to do those kinds of things with cfengine in the mix
15:52 * thunderwork goes out to inhale some rapidly oxidized tobacco
16:14 < shawnh> thunderwork: how do you like cfengine?
16:16 -!- jtickle_work [n=jtickle@ip-152010153041.ess.appstate.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:22 -!- shawnh [n=shawn@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com] has quit ["leaving"]
16:45 -!- fatstrat [i=user@idems-3.staff.ecu.edu] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
16:49 -!- home-amr [n=Miranda@cpe-065-191-037-002.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:52 -!- bpt [n=bpt@adsl-221-39-214.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #trilug
16:57 < thunderwork> oh ok just ask a question and then quit... I see
17:12 < iank> 00:01 Hey guys can you help me with X, Y, and Z?
17:12 < iank> 00:02 YOU GUYS NEVER ANSWER! YOUR PROJECT SUCKS!
17:12 < iank> 00:03 * luser has quit
17:12 < iank> (noting timestamps, of course =])
17:15 < jucolt> anyone want a job as a midlevel "it guy"?
17:16 -!- YanceySlide [i=id@tor/session/x-0813dc5da1f8a1f7] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:25 -!- mshiltonj [n=shilton@152.52.0.2] has quit ["timago"]
17:27 < OneFix_Work> I have an access database that I'm being asked to read into a webpage...anyone know a good way of doing it in PHP/Perl?
17:27 < thunderwork> OneFix_Work, DBI in perl ... I think PHP can do it too
17:27 < thunderwork> but you'd have to run it on a Windows box IIRC
17:29 < OneFix_Work> thunderbear: WEll, I don't want to have to run Access
17:29 < OneFix_Work> I just want the data...
17:29 < thunderwork> DBD:ODBC is what you want
17:30 < thunderwork> but I dunno if you can do that from a linux box... I somehow doubt it
17:30 < jucolt> you want to read the data out of the access database once?
17:30 < OneFix_Work> jucolt: yea
17:30 < jucolt> and then dump it into a different db?
17:30 < thunderwork> you could probably migrate the data into MySQL or PostgreSQL if there is no application dependent on MS Access in front of it
17:30 < OneFix_Work> yea
17:31 < jucolt> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/migrating-from-microsoft.html
17:31 < jucolt> scroll down to Migration Tools
17:32 < jucolt> you will need a windows box to get the data out
17:32 < jucolt> or some futzing with wine
17:33 < OneFix_Work> bah, I think I'll just see if I can get the guy to "export" the data
17:33 < OneFix_Work> a
17:33 < OneFix_Work> oops
17:34 < OneFix_Work> Anyone else here on SanaSecuirty's list?
17:34 < jucolt> if its written using Access there is a good chance that the "guy" won't know how to do that
17:34 < OneFix_Work> That new rootkit...it's a mean one
17:34 -!- hunter [n=thm@jade.biology.duke.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:35 < OneFix_Work> jucolt: Yea, but I have the mdb, so I should be able to give him instructions :)
17:35 < thunderwork> OneFix_Work, if you can export to CSV, you can use a bulk importer to suck it into MySQL or PostgreSQL (or just perl/php into static HTML if thats what you want)
17:35 < jucolt> OneFix_Work, is the problem that you don't have a copy of access around?
17:35 < OneFix_Work> thunderbear: If I can export to CSV, I don't even need to load it into MySQL...I can just read the CSV
17:36 < thunderwork> well I don't fully understand the nature of your project... if you are doing queries against it or changes to it, RDBMS is going to be so much easier to work with. If it is going to stay static and not really be queried through SQL, then ya I could see CSV being ok
17:37 < OneFix_Work> It's actually a list of about 5 different fields...that COULD be done in Excel
17:38 < jucolt> if its a static webpage, you could just have the guy export the data as html
17:40 < OneFix_Work> For some reason he wants users to be able to search it
17:40 < thunderwork> at that point I'd just dump it in an RDBMS to have the convenience of SQL
17:43 < tarheelcoxn> any irssi power users around? I'd love to disable activity notifications for a few high-traffic channels, but don't see a way to specify _only_ a few channels
17:44 < jbroome> Ooh, i'd like to know how to do that too
17:45 if the sc folks don't know, it's clearly not important
17:47 < jbroome> yeah, i need to ignore trilug-steering
17:47 < tarheelcoxn> pfffft
17:47 < jbroome> chatty bastards
17:48 bunch of wankers too
17:50 < iank> gasp, an op!
17:50 * iank cowers
17:51 < tarheelcoxn> hehe
17:53 < admiralaway> tarheelcoxn: /ignore JOINS PARTS $ACTION #channel
17:53 < tarheelcoxn> admiralaway: nice. thanks
17:53 < admiralaway> er, put the channel name first
17:53 < admiralaway> sorry
17:54 < admiralaway> eg: /ignore #trilug JOINS resulted in "Ignoring JOINS from #trilug" in the status window
17:54 < tarheelcoxn> 17:53 Ignoring JOINS PARTS QUITS from #asterisk
17:55 < tarheelcoxn> the $ACTION doesn't look like it's doing anything
17:56 < admiralaway> thats where you'd insert another action of your choice
17:57 < tarheelcoxn> what I'm looking for is for the number of the window _not_ to light up when people are talking in a particular channel
17:57 < tarheelcoxn> in the statusbar
17:58 < admiralaway> ooooh
17:58 < admiralaway> well then
17:58 < tarheelcoxn> :)
17:58 < admiralaway> if you find out, let me know, eh?
17:58 < tarheelcoxn> hehe
18:02 -!- john280z [n=johnm@user-0ce2hju.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #trilug
18:02 < jbroome> i've found that ^AD keeps me from seeing those status bar thingys
18:02 < admiralaway> jbroome: you know, that works for me too
18:09 < tarheelcoxn> think I may have found something: "/window level ALL -snotes"
18:09 < tarheelcoxn> http://www.irssi.org/documentation/tips
18:09 * admiralaway goes to rerack an xserve and head home
18:10 < tarheelcoxn> or not... that didn't work
18:32 -!- jucolt [n=vickeryj@216-166-233-146.clec.commercial.madisonriver.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:32 < Nivex> mmmm sleet (predicted)
19:33 < crimsun> NC nearly always inverts its seasons on the boundaries
19:33 < crimsun> last week or so of winter is unseasonably warm; first week of spring is bitterly cold
19:33 < crimsun> (well, "bitterly" in NC standards)
19:36 < Nivex> yeah, today's walk around UNC wouldn't have been so bad if I had my umbrella
19:43 -!- nforbes [n=nforbes@httpcraft/php/nforbes] has joined #trilug
19:57 -!- vanhoof [i=vanhoof@cpe-065-190-197-176.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
19:57 < vanhoof> jwbernin: ping
19:57 < Nivex> hey, who's that guy?
19:58 < vanhoof> heh
19:58 < vanhoof> how are ya
19:58 < Nivex> not too bad. how 'bout you?
19:58 < vanhoof> bout the same -- same old crap
19:58 < vanhoof> in class this week, so nice for a change
19:58 < Nivex> considering where you work, I can understand that
19:58 < vanhoof> lol
20:02 < iank> Anyone care to cat together a couple megs worth of auth.log and send it to me? (All I'm interested in is failed sshd login attempts (zombie scripts), if you want to filter stuff out)
20:04 < drasch> iank: where do you come up with these projects?
20:05 * iank waves arms wildly
20:05 < iank> MAGIC!~
20:06 < Nivex> go to freshmeat.net. there are plenty of projects that already do stuff like that I bet
20:06 < iank> That do what? =)
20:06 * iank hasn't mentioned what this project is, yet ;]
20:10 < iank> I'm just looking for a crapton of authlogs atm.
20:11 < Nivex> I bet you could get some from $WORK
20:11 < iank> Yeah, was going to ask when I came in tomorrow.
20:11 < iank> drasch: ^^
20:11 < vanhoof> iank: i have some from the passed few days
20:12 < iank> yay
20:12 < iank> cookies for all
20:12 < vanhoof> (#:/var/log)- cat authlog* | grep ssh | grep -v vanhoof | grep -v redhat | wc -l 68
20:12 < Nivex> http://forum.gizmoproject.com/viewtopic.php?t=1446
20:12 < vanhoof> if thats enought
20:12 < vanhoof> enough
20:13 < iank> Nivex: I see a slug. I like.
20:13 * iank reads thread
20:13 < iank> Oh sweet mother of linksys
20:13 < iank> * on a slug?
20:14 < Nivex> why not? you can already do it on a wrt54g
20:17 < iank> http://qntm.org/destroy
20:17 < iank> "Source: this method arose when Joe Baldwin and I knocked our heads together by accident." I think I've seen that one or something like it before.
20:20 -!- dugan [n=dbc@pool-71-111-201-190.rlghnc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #trilug
20:26 < iank> And lastly, if all your efforts fail, don't give up! Remember, nobody has ever successfully destroyed the Earth.
20:26 < iank> rofl
20:29 < GXTi> can xfs not be shrunk?
20:30 * GXTi twitches
20:31 < crimsun> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/faq.html#resize
20:31 < crimsun> boom, like that.
20:31 < GXTi> You can NOT make a XFS partition smaller online. The only way to shrink is to do a complete dump, mkfs and restore.
20:31 * GXTi screams
20:32 < GXTi> i dont have the bloody SPACE to do that
20:32 < GXTi> thats why i spent all of last night moving partitions aroudn just so i could have a continuous partition for this drive
20:46 < jwbernin> vanhoof: pong
20:55 < jwbernin> admiralaway: ping
21:00 -!- spaescowboy [n=rendrv@sjs-130-65-240-61.sjsu.edu] has joined #trilug
21:14 < alchemist> vanhoof!!
21:14 < vanhoof> hi alchemist !
21:14 < alchemist> how'z it hangin'?
21:15 < vanhoof> to the left
21:15 < vanhoof> lol
21:15 < vanhoof> not too bad
21:15 < alchemist> coolio. customers treating you ok?
21:15 < vanhoof> yeah, same old -- same old, same customers too :)
21:16 < vanhoof> in RH442 this week
21:16 < alchemist> hehe
21:16 < alchemist> oooh, fun one
21:16 < vanhoof> nice break
21:16 < alchemist> yeah, I shoudl have taken the test for it when I had the chance
21:16 < vanhoof> yeah its expensive now
21:16 < vanhoof> what you been up to
21:16 < alchemist> Syadmining, gaming, parenting
21:16 < alchemist> same old, same old
21:17 < vanhoof> where you @ now?
21:17 < alchemist> ITS-EPA
21:17 < vanhoof> like it?
21:17 < alchemist> yeah
21:17 < alchemist> nice break
21:18 < vanhoof> they have been trying to get me to go the outside way as of late
21:18 < alchemist> it's good money if you can handle the stress
21:18 < vanhoof> keep saying no lol
21:18 < jwbernin> no! don't do it! don't give in to the dark side!
21:18 < alchemist> hehe
21:18 < vanhoof> well -- moving to the midwest...
21:18 < vanhoof> not so much
21:18 < alchemist> Yeah. We've got a lInux opening in our admin group
21:18 < vanhoof> san fran / nyc -- maybe
21:19 < alchemist> NYC is a fun town
21:19 < vanhoof> i <3 TAM
21:19 -!- Aileens [i=aileen@pdpc/supporter/basic/Aileens] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
21:19 < vanhoof> ill be there for a while
21:19 < jwbernin> you couldn't afford NYC on a RH salary.
21:19 < vanhoof> lol
21:19 < vanhoof> jwbernin: bs -- boogie down bronx
21:19 < vanhoof> lol
21:19 < vanhoof> with my people
21:19 < vanhoof> hahahaha
21:19 < alchemist> or queens
21:20 < alchemist> you can get a sweet-ass studio in queens for a good price
21:20 < jwbernin> ok, maybe you could.
21:20 < thunderbear> if RH is as miserly as they were back when I was being courted... yeah, NYC is way out of the question
21:20 -!- Aileens [i=aileen@bsbhd.com] has joined #trilug
21:20 < alchemist> manhatten is out
21:20 < vanhoof> oh thats for sure
21:20 < vanhoof> brooklyn perhaps
21:20 < thunderbear> ok ya you could live in tha hood
21:20 < alchemist> only way E can afford it is becasue he's outside sales
21:20 < jwbernin> Staten Island is out as well.
21:20 < alchemist> bleck
21:20 < alchemist> Queens or Brooklyn
21:20 < alchemist> fuck the Island
21:21 < vanhoof> jwbernin: SHAOLIN
21:21 < vanhoof> (lame wu-tang reference)
21:21 < jwbernin> alchemist: which island? :)
21:21 < vanhoof> well i just bought this place 1.5 years ago, so i dont wana sell/rent anytime soon
21:21 < jwbernin> queens+brooklyn== long island
21:21 < alchemist> jwbernin: Staten or "Out the Island"
21:21 < alchemist> jwbernin: I know. I used to live in Kew Gardens
21:22 < alchemist> jwbernin: across the street from the LIRR station
21:22 < jwbernin> yeah, I remember you telling me that.
21:22 < jwbernin> I wouldn't want to live on SI anyway - no subway service.
21:22 < alchemist> BTW, there's a kick-ass pub there
21:22 < vanhoof> lol jwbernin
21:22 < vanhoof> im hitting up lana for the same thing i asked you
21:22 < vanhoof> she's 'working' on it
21:22 < vanhoof> hahah
21:22 < jwbernin> *laugh*
21:22 < alchemist> mmm, lana
21:22 < jwbernin> yeah, she's been buggine me about my perf evaluation...
21:23 < vanhoof> wait... this isnt #support
21:23 < vanhoof> where am i
21:23 < jwbernin> bugging
21:23 < vanhoof> who are you people
21:23 < crimsun> ghosts.
21:23 < jwbernin> @lart vanhoof
21:23 * Tribot thumps vanhoof with the O'Reilly sendmail book (aka the bat book)
21:23 < jwbernin> this is TriLUG.
21:23 < vanhoof> jwbernin: speaking of sendmail
21:23 < vanhoof> jwbernin: tomorrow :)
21:23 < alchemist> sendmail is cake
21:24 < vanhoof> sendmail has something special coming out tomorrow
21:24 < jwbernin> huh?
21:24 < vanhoof> well pubic announcement
21:24 < GXTi> sanity?
21:24 < vanhoof> another exploit
21:24 < GXTi> a resignation? :p
21:24 < alchemist> color me shocked
21:24 < vanhoof> supposed to go pubic on the 22nd
21:24 < vanhoof> last i heard
21:25 * GXTi draws on alchemist
21:25 < alchemist> @lart GXTi
21:25 * Tribot dissolves GXTi in boiling acid
21:25 * jwbernin is simply glad that his machines work they way they're supposed to (for the most part)
21:26 < alchemist> tell me about it. I had a Netra with about 1400 open connections into Jrun this morning. and they wondered why it was sluggish
21:27 < jwbernin> uhh.... because it's *supposed* to be with that many connections???
21:27 < alchemist> and it's JRun, so logging is lacking
21:27 < alchemist> I've got a monitor on it to see if this is somethign new or a one-time event
21:28 -!- john280z [n=johnm@user-0ce2hju.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:28 < thunderbear> so RHEL5 really needs to default to Postfix as the MTA :)
21:31 < crimsun> what does it default to?
21:33 < Nivex> sendmail
21:34 < crimsun> wow.
21:34 -!- zablalbaz [n=zablalba@cpe-024-163-116-197.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
21:51 -!- nforbes [n=nforbes@httpcraft/php/nforbes] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:02 -!- zablalbaz [n=zablalba@cpe-024-163-116-197.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:06 -!- abock [n=abock@cpe-065-190-165-141.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:11 -!- abock [n=abock@cpe-065-190-165-141.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #trilug
22:18 goddam can you waste a lot of time with wikipedia
22:19 < jbroome> honestly i can waste time with my car keys and a rubber band. doesn't take much
22:20 that's fine when you bill by the hour :)
22:21 and am i the only one who calls them "gumbands"?
22:21 < Nivex> i think so
22:22 < jbroome> yeah
22:22 wow, the f-14 is 35% titanium
22:58 < drasch> small things for small minds--i always tell myself
22:58 < drasch> what's a gumband?
22:59 < jbroome> what rubber bands are called in jtower's world
22:59 < drasch> do you chew on them?
23:00 < jbroome> my muzzle keeps me from doing that
23:01 < drasch> fun
23:02 < drasch> is that a cerient perk?
23:06 what's a perk?
23:12 < mattfrye> cerient don't need no stinkin' perks
23:12 * mattfrye sees that thunderbear referred to RHEL5. hmmm.
23:14 < mattfrye> jtower: i bet pusateri calls 'em gumbands
23:50 < mattfrye> later luggers
23:59 < tarheelcoxn> isn't perk a verb?
23:59 < tarheelcoxn> like, what you do after you drink coffee?
--- Log closed Wed Mar 22 00:00:31 2006