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In the first docu., @ 3: 40 they are a group of peoples we call "bakriwale" (goatherds), they're, in the whole of Kashmir, three million ; two third of them being in Azad Kashmir, the rest in Indian-Occupied Kashmir.
There are some hundreds of them in the Kaghan Valley too, which is situated in Manshera and is the "natural" border between KPK and AJK (Neelum Valley.)
Those there speak Hindko generally ; some of them :

The people there look like they are from Ireland or something!!! Red Heads in Subcontinent is very interesting.
Somebody needs to do a genetic test. These guys could be from Western Europe with no intermixing with other groups of India and Pak.

The ones on the Indian side seem to have mixed with Indian ethnic groups. They look more Indian than the one in Pak side.

The people there look like they are from Ireland or something!!! Red Heads in Subcontinent is very interesting.
Somebody needs to do a genetic test. These guys could be from Western Europe with no intermixing with other groups of India and Pak.

The ones on the Indian side seem to have mixed with Indian ethnic groups. They look more Indian than the one in Pak side.

When I went to Kashmir I saw lots of them, and always thought that they looked like "Pathans", not really Europeans.
In fact, there are some of them who live in Afghanistan (few thousands), but they never suffered from the same discrimination as the Punjabis who lived there who were called "Hindki" - some say it's because they are Muslims (whereas Punjabis were generally Sikh traders), others because they "look" Afghans.

BTW, they are an "Indian" ethnicity, they speak Gojri which is a language related to Rajasthani.
My father, to you, probably looks more "West European" if that's the case with them.

When I went to Kashmir I saw lots of them, and always thought that they looked like "Pathans", not really Europeans.
In fact, there are some of them who live in Afghanistan (few thousands), but they never suffered from the same discrimination as the Punjabis who lived there who were called "Hindki" - some say it's because they are Muslims (whereas Punjabis were generally Sikh traders), others because they "look" Afghans.

BTW, they are an "Indian" ethnicity, they speak Gojri which is a language related to Rajasthani.
My father, to you, probably looks more "West European" if that's the case with them.

If a typical person in Pak Kashmir looks like the pics you posted, then they are White Euros. If they are not, then I don't know what white people are. They look white as hell to me.

Indian side Kashmiris also have people with the above features, but a lot of them do not have colored eyes nor they have blonde/red hair. They look like North Indians with lighter skin or look just like them.
May be the Kashmiri people on Indian side mixed a lot with people from Jammu.

I remember your Pic. You look like a Desi. You did not seem to inherit anything from your dad then.

Indian side Kashmiris also have people with the above features, but a lot of them do not have colored eyes nor they have blonde/red hair. They look like North Indians with lighter skin or look just like them.
May be the Kashmiri people on Indian side mixed a lot with people from Jammu.

I remember your Pic. You look like a Desi. You did not seem to inherit anything from your dad then.

Well, in Azad Kashmir too the demographics are different, and these are not representative : the Bakerwals/Gujjars look the most "West Asian" (or what you call "White", though I disagree), then peoples from in and around Muzaffarabad who look like peoples of the Valley and finally those from Mirpur-Dadyal who look like other Punjabis because they are Punjabis (speaking the Potohari dialect.)
So there's not "one" look common in all the Pak. Kashmir (in fact I'd say it's more diverse than Indian Kashmir.)

My family is Pahari Rajput and, yes, I inherited the traits from my mother side, but I don't like the term "desi".

Well, in Azad Kashmir too the demographics are different, and these are not representative : the Bakerwals/Gujjars look the most "West Asian" (or what you call "White", though I disagree), then peoples from in and around Muzaffarabad who look like peoples of the Valley and finally those from Mirpur-Dadyal who look like other Punjabis because they are Punjabis (speaking the Potohari dialect.)
So there's not "one" look common in all the Pak. Kashmir (in fact I'd say it's more diverse than Indian Kashmir.)

My family is Pahari Rajput and, yes, I inherited the traits from my mother side, but I don't like the term "desi".

Even all the people from Mirpur/Dadyal do not look punjabi, my family has a real mix of light hair/eyes, fair skin to people who could easily be mistaken from South east asian. If genetic testing was done in the kashmir region it would throw up loads of interesting things as I for one would love to know my ethnic make up.

Even all the people from Mirpur/Dadyal do not look punjabi, my family has a real mix of light hair/eyes, fair skin to people who could easily be mistaken from South east asian. If genetic testing was done in the kashmir region it would throw up loads of interesting things as I for one would love to know my ethnic make up.

It's not really about light hair/eyes, skin-tone, ... but facial features, I myself have seen some Mirpuris with light eyes but they look different from the Bakkerwals, who have really long head/long nose (which in fact gives them their pseudo-"Pathan" looks.)
To add about the demographics of Azad Kashmir, there are since few years also tons of Pathans... esp. in Mirpur, where they go for jobs.

Anyway that thread turned out more about anthropology to geography, some other pictures.

nawaz sharif is not from leepa his father is from east punjab amritsar and his family migrated to lahore during partition, their original ancestory is from indian side of kashmir and his family come from the kashmir valley shopian area they are kashmiris of lohar caste due to them being in Lahore and east Punjab , where here is strong arain background they adopted the mian name from the arains.

the leepa tehsil is part of hattian bala district

both my mums and dads village come in hattian tehsil

which comes under muzzfrabad division

also i thought u said u are from bhimber and are chib rajput who are of hindu dogra origins , unless your family migrated to rawalakot recently as part of the government sector employment. since chibs are not found in rawalkot and poonch division area.

chibs are a found in mirpur bhimber kotli and neighboruing areas of punjab gujrat distict they are not associated with rawalakot which is mainly associated with sudhans(Sadozais) and douli mughals,
these people are totally different region to your mirpuris (mirpur, kotli bhimber) people. they speak poonchi which is different vernacular to potwari/mirpuri spoken in mirpur kotli and punjabi spoken in bhimber and border regions of gujrat in punjab.

one of my 2nd cousin also died in rawalakot he was in living in a hostel he studied at a college in rawalakot , around 300 boys died there were 2 survivors from the earthquake in their college building.

nawaz sharif is not from leepa his father is from east punjab amritsar and his family migrated to lahore during partition, their original ancestory is from indian side of kashmir and his family come from the kashmir valley shopian area they are kashmiris of lohar caste due to them being in Lahore and east Punjab , where here is strong arain background they adopted the mian name from the arains.

Well, saw some itw of a native of the Leepa valley who said that "it's sad that Mian sahab doesn't give due importance to Kashmir, despite being born in this very place (talking of Leepa Valley.)"

But anyway, Mian sahab's still a Kashmiri, and that's enough of a tragedy.

Originally Posted by carbon11

also i thought u said u are from bhimber and are chib rajput who are of hindu dogra origins , unless your family migrated to rawalakot recently as part of the government sector employment. since chibs are not found in rawalkot and poonch division area.

chibs are a found in mirpur bhimber kotli and neighboruing areas of punjab gujrat distict they are not associated with rawalakot which is mainly associated with sudhans(Sadozais) and douli mughals,
these people are totally different region to your mirpuris (mirpur, kotli bhimber) people. they speak poonchi which is different vernacular to potwari/mirpuri spoken in mirpur kotli and punjabi spoken in bhimber and border regions of gujrat in punjab.

one of my 2nd cousin also died in rawalakot he was in living in a hostel he studied at a college in rawalakot , around 300 boys died there were 2 survivors from the earthquake in their college building.

I'm a Rajput but not of Chib tribe, Khakha ; my paternal family is in Bhimber dist. (some minutes far away from IoK border) and they could have moved earlier on, but my maternal family was from Poonch on the Indian side, and when the Dogra Army went crazy they had to move to Rawalakot.
But, always speaking on my maternal side, they have all now moved to Mirpur city, minus my maternal great-grandmother who's still there... nostalgic, I guess.
When I go back to Pakistan I generally stay in my father's village (called Darhal Gangan) and not more than few weeks in Mirpur itself.

And I thought that Rajputs were found all over Kashmir... only Sudhans are geographically limited as far as I know ?

Sad to hear about your cousin, it was indeed a disaster, in my village (Bhimber) a lots of houses were destroyed but thankfully no human casualty, we were lucky in that regard.

A look around the beautiful Leepa Valley. Leepa is usually in full bloom in he summer months (July/August) although this video was shot in. This place is located just the below the line of control and consequently suffers from Indian shelling from time to time.

amazing pictures inshallah will take husband and son to visit the beauty of kashmir. Yes I agree not just skin tone etc but people in my family look different with a quite a far eastern look with certain members looking as if they have just stepped out of mongolia.

But anyway, Mian sahab's still a Kashmiri, and that's enough of a tragedy.

well nawaz sharif is not from leepa

the person must have been saying is that nwaz sharif is a kashmiri and has done nothing for kashmir, he probably meant in that context that sharif is a fellow kashmiri.
after what happened in 1999 kargil war when ganja ran off to clinton yes he his true nature was revealed.

but then again his ties with kashmir are like that of irish american they have no real connection to the land

nwaz sharif is punjabi , its like irish americans who no longer have ties to ireland but have ancestory from ireland but they are americans and have no foothold in ireland anymore

punjabi kashmiris they have no ties to kashmir anymore apart from ancestors who migrated from kashmir many generations ago they have forgoton the culture local dialeect lingos dress everything and intermingled with punjabis and learnt their corrupt ways look no further than salman salmon machi butt.