This is a discussion on Helmuths, play poker like the pros within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; OK so I bought his book on Amazon for 29cents(I'm cheap):D .I mostly had played NLH (ring games) but I deciced to go back to

OK so I bought his book on Amazon for 29cents(I'm cheap) .I mostly had played NLH (ring games) but I deciced to go back to Limit after reading his strategy. I played at $5/10 limit and eventhoug I was not crazy at some of his thoughts, I made some ok money. Now I lost most of it and not sure if I agree with him on a few things. Basically he says raise with any low pair, or Ace suited. I cant count how many times I raise with a low pair like 4s and just like most times on any game , you always see high cards.So unless you hit a set you are screwed. Even if the board doesnt look too bad, your opponent could have a higher pair. I am ok with limping in with these cards but he says to raise or even reraise preflop. What do you guys think?

#2

9th June 2006, 8:07 PM

AceZWylD [512]

Online Poker at: Ultimate Bet

Game: NLHE

I bought this book last summer and it has been great for the fireplace. About the only thing that I got out of this book is the understanding of top 10 hands and identifying the different types of players sitting at a table. This is a good beginners book, as it explains a lot about the different styles of poker, but as for modeling your play around what he talks about, I wouldn't do it. He is a great player, but no book can teach you how to identify what hands you are up against, or what situations to be aggressive or passive. You learn that from experience and learning your opponents tendencies.

#3

9th June 2006, 8:12 PM

thechern [131]

Poker at: Titan

Game: Holdem

Raising with 4's preflop is not to smart on a table with 5/10$. I can see maybe on a low limit micro table but the way I play those is limp in and if you hit trips then you raise but otherwise I would fold.

No it don't say that at all.. I have and read his book... if you notice his top ten 10 hands are..AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 1010, 99, 88, 77, A,K and A,Q..

Which really isn't a bad selection of top ten pre flop hands. Which he says to bet aggresively with. He also shows you the types of players you may be dealing with from the Jackal all the way to the Elephant. But It is aimed towards limit instead of no limit hold-em.

I like the book cause it shows you how to become an aggresive player compared to the passive player.

for me if theres no raise weather in L or NL I like to dubble the blinds with 7' or lower, but with 8's to J's i'll triple the blind and Q' to A's I'll go higher just how i play seams if you do raise, you can sometimes get rid of the BS hands and I use SOMETIMES lightly,

#7

10th June 2006, 12:10 PM

starfall [571]

Poker at: Stars

Game: Omaha Hi/Lo

I thought it was a good book initially, although having played a lot more now I don't refer to it much - it's more of a beginners book, unlike the likes of Sklanksys stuff.

I have to agree with twizzybob here, and would like to add, learning how to read a book may well be more important than actioning its contents at a poker table.
Understand what the author is trying to put across before using the advice given.
Please don't think I am being condescending in any way, it is surely not my intention.
But many a good guy or gal can misinterpret what is being written and use the information in an incorrect way.

If you choose to go down the book route to poker success, understanding what is being explained or advised is a most important aspect of what you want to achieve.

Be lucky.

#9

10th June 2006, 8:28 PM

Beriac [743]

Poker at: Stars

Game: NLHE, Omaha

Actually I'm not too fond of Hellmuth's top 10 hands. I find at a full table 77 is really more of a small pocket than a top 10 hand and is better (usually) limped late than raised. I mean, yeah you've gotta vary your play, but I think his top 10 goes a little overboard with the pocket pairs.

This thread is heading towards what Dorkus warned about analysis posts lacking details and information.

I would imagine Hellmuth gives all kinds of situations for when and when not to best use such plays.

Catering for the beginner, intermediate, and advanced player, including pre-flop action, actual flops, situations on the turn and outcomes on the river.

Not to mention the different types of player you are up against at any given moment.

Nothing I have read so far indicates his detailed explanations for each and every scenario.

If we are going to go down this road, lets at least take into account in depth strategies instead of just using top 10 hand situations as though Hellmuth just threw it out there without any thought.

#11

10th June 2006, 11:38 PM

twizzybop [2,258]

Game: holdem

If we are going to go down this road, lets at least take into account in depth strategies instead of just using top 10 hand situations as though Hellmuth just threw it out there without any thought.

Agreed but all he is saying is to be aggresive.. and isn't being aggresive working with being tight? so if we are being tight agressive, yes his book doesn't show what to do what happens after the flop et-ectra... it just shows how to be aggresive compared to the passive

#12

12th June 2006, 9:19 PM

Xandit [133]

Online Poker at: full tilt

Game: holdem

re: Poker & Helmuths, play poker like the pros

I just rechecked the book and phil states that when you raise or reraise. You are able to represent a big hand on the flop with either a bet or reraise on the flop. You need to revalueate on the turn. He also states that you do not call a bet on the turn or river. If you are playing a tight aggressive game you can represent a big hand with a small pair. I understand that it feels like you are spewing chips when you three bet a small pocket pair. I only tend to do this if I feel i am running at the top of my game. I also find that it can be beneficial to just limp and call 1 bet to try and hit your set.

for me if theres no raise weather in L or NL I like to dubble the blinds with 7' or lower, but with 8's to J's i'll triple the blind and Q' to A's I'll go higher just how i play seams if you do raise, you can sometimes get rid of the BS hands and I use SOMETIMES lightly,

Now that I know how much you bet your hands I look forward to seeing you at a table.

I've never read the book, but I've played a lot of limit poker over the last 13 years. Yeah, back in the day, when you couldn't get a NL game outside of the WSOP for the most part.
Raising small pp as he describes is techincally wrong but he is probably using it as a variance play. He need to play more hand and mix it up to get action, when he actually has a good hand.
I can't recall Hellmuth playing a lot of limit ring games, and the times I've heard about the cash games he playes he gets crushed.
So take his advice for what it is, a player making money off his name.
No one said he was stupid!!!

Maybe you need to go back and read the book again. I have read the book many times and compare what he says against real life games. Raising with low pocket pairs will build the pot for when you do hit your set or sometimes win you the pot with a continuation bet. It will aslo get your big pairs paid off when someone calls you down with a weaker pair. He also doesn't advocate raising with 7's everytime, just against certain types of players, and in position. 3-betting wil also help you find out where you are at and build the pot when you do hit your set. I learn something new every time I read his or anyone else's book, same as some of the posts on here. You don't have to agree with him but don't disregard one of the top players ever to play the game. Maybe it's not the system, maybe it's the execution of the system?????

#21

17th June 2006, 2:51 PM

maxsanders_13 [53]

Poker at: pokerstars

Personally, this is the only proper poker book, (I have another one called the poker players bibile, but its not that good) Basically, the way that Hellmuth plays is very suited to his style of play, and if anyone watchs him, they will know that he is a mega tight super aggressive player.

I loved his cook, and I go back all the time If i need a bit of help on one part of my play, or if i want to loosen up and start ;aying A-X suited, for example as you picked that out. Now Phil sets the book out into different sections, if you read the BEGINNERS section, he says that in limit only play 77,88,99,1010,JJ,QQ,KK,AA,AK and AQ.

He gives you MORE THAN 1 way of playing the hands such as 77 88 99. He says that HE personally likes to raise and then bet the flop and personally Im not sure I always like this, ill limp with say hands like 33,44,55,66 and maybe raise with 77 88 99 but not reraise usually. He also gives Frand Hendersons theory where he only limps with all small pairs.

Im sure Phil himself doesn't always follow his exact strategy, but to say this book only told you the top 10 hands, makes you a fool and you obvioult havent read the book with any kind of poker knowledge, because the NO1 rules in poker is that, you should not ever say always or never. Example, watch Phil Iver limp in with 93 in middle position. What we couldnt dream of doing that?

Heres a hand I saw Phil Ivey play pn TV at the Monte Carlo Millions.

Phil limps with 93

guy has 10J

guy has 89 ( diamonds )

guy has A8

flop comes Q-X-8 (1 diamond)

Phil bets 2k (2500 pot)

89 calls all rest pass.

turn comes diamond

Phil bets 7k (9 high)

IVEY TAKES IT DOWN!

So you never say always or never in Poker!

Second, I disagree with some of the thing hellmuth says, such as the A-X suited, but if you read he has A DIFFERENT section for online poker. In that section, he doesn't say play 44 55 66 77 and definately NOT reraise with them.

I got some advice for you Pal, READ the book again (like actually look at the words) and USE his advice, because I have become a megatight rock player and it works man, especially read his blind stealing and reraisng a stealer etc, some of his strategies are just magic!

my 2 cents BABy!

#22

17th June 2006, 3:03 PM

thelynx [66]

Online Poker at: paradise

Most importent is to adjust to the players around the table. You can NOT just follow one rule