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All I see, Stan, is much wringing of hands among the Grand Obstructionist Party worrying how new citizens might vote. The Dems on the other hand are saying nothing because this drama plays right into their hands. If the GOP wishes to shoot itself in the foot on this issue, why intervene?

How many things are illegal and not enforced? How many times have you been out on your bike at 5 mph over the limit and not get stopped. Are you breaking the law, but then who makes the choice not to stop you? Or will they show up 10 years later and say you did a no-no back then? Are you in a fit of guilt going to turn yourself in and pay a fine for speeding 5 years ago? See my point?

[QUOTE][/Q Or will they show up 10 years later and say you did a no-no back then? Are you in a fit of guilt going to turn yourself in and pay a fine for speeding 5 years ago? See my point?UOTE]
But in the case of illegals, if they are still here, they are breaking the law now ... as well as five or ten years ago.

Gerry, this assumes that welfare benefits are so attractive that illegals come here to draw them. In most instants, it is illegal for them to draw benefits. Most of them have a network that makes it easy to find work. Family ties are usually very strong, so as a result, most come here because a brother or cousin has located work for them.

Once there is an anchor baby, my understanding is then mother and baby become eligible for many welfare benefits. Like Medicaid, Food Stamps, Section 8, etc.

You might also remember the things posted some time back about problems with illegals who are severely ill. A hospital in FL had given an illegal over $1 million in care to a sick illegal (dialysis, I think), and the individual's home country refused to take the person back. There was a big concern about a hospital in NYC (I think) which was due to close because it was providing dialysis to a large number of illegals. Evidently, although it might be a relatively small number, there are illegals who come here for the free health care that they could never get in their home countries. While this may be a relatively small number of illegals, they certainly result in a disproportionate cost in services.

You have also missed the story about how illegals can get ID#s and file income taxes ... and then they get a child credit for kids that are living in Mexico! (who may not even be their own children!) I don't remember the exact number, but I think it's something like $4 billion this past year. We're literally paying them to be here illegally!

And none of those illegals, I'm sure, are involved in any of the SS disability fraud, right?

Most police agencies will ignore illegal immigrants until a serious crime is committed. At that point the individual is referred to ICE for deportation as immigration is a Federal matter.

Evidently, though, the present administration, through its judicial discretion is not permitting ICE to do its job. That is why the unions representing ICE and USCIS are both opposing the law, and also suing the administration for not allowing them to enforce the laws in accordance with the oaths they took. Even these unions don't believe that they'll get a lot of new dues-paying members because the new law says they would.

Think of the #s of illegals guilty of DUIs that are still here. Even citizens are treated more harshly for a DUI than the "Dreamers" are being treated due to the Presidential executive order.

The proposal that would deny them the vote is derived out of the fear they would vote Democrat en masse.

The proposal only denies them citizenship if they do not return to their own country first and immigrate according to the prevailing immigration laws. Shouldn't there be some penalty for illegal immigration when others have been abiding by the law? Is it fair that those who immigrated illegally should step to the front of the line? That is not rule of law.

They are getting the right to stay here and work legally; they can send $ back home. They are getting quite a lot already. It seems fair that if they really are committed to becoming citizens, they will do it the right way.

I think that the average citizen is more concerned with the fact that amnesty already proved to be useless in the past, because the promises of border security were never kept. So, this is a repeat of the same thing all over again. Since there are at least some Rs who are pandering for their share of the "new" voters, it really is not a political issue for the "man on the street" ... it's a real economic issue for any low-skill worker. The same would be true for the young people who depend on a low-skill, part-time and summer job to help with their expenses going to community college or tech school.

G.Clinchy@gmail.com"Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

All I see, Stan, is much wringing of hands among the Grand Obstructionist Party worrying how new citizens might vote. The Dems on the other hand are saying nothing because this drama plays right into their hands. If the GOP wishes to shoot itself in the foot on this issue, why intervene?

How many things are illegal and not enforced? How many times have you been out on your bike at 5 mph over the limit and not get stopped. Are you breaking the law, but then who makes the choice not to stop you? Or will they show up 10 years later and say you did a no-no back then? Are you in a fit of guilt going to turn yourself in and pay a fine for speeding 5 years ago? See my point?

You are equating speeding with illegal immigration???

All righty then...........my apologies to my Great Grandfathers who came here LEGALLY asking for nothing but a JOB.
And my Grandfathers who fought in WWII to preserve this country and our way of life.
And my Father who served in the name of AMERICA, for the country he so loved.
Gun totin' bible thumpers everyone!

For allowing all the ILLEGALS to pour into America unabated and CRAP all over our laws and suck off the teat created buy secular progressives in the name of civility.
And your only response is the Republicans are afraid the teat suckers will vote for more teat.

How truly pathetic.
I don't have the words top describe my contempt for that thought process (or lack there of)!!!!

All I see, Stan, is much wringing of hands among the Grand Obstructionist Party worrying how new citizens might vote. The Dems on the other hand are saying nothing because this drama plays right into their hands. If the GOP wishes to shoot itself in the foot on this issue, why intervene?

How many things are illegal and not enforced? How many times have you been out on your bike at 5 mph over the limit and not get stopped. Are you breaking the law, but then who makes the choice not to stop you? Or will they show up 10 years later and say you did a no-no back then? Are you in a fit of guilt going to turn yourself in and pay a fine for speeding 5 years ago? See my point?

Click on the link I posted in post #40. Then tell me about the illegals. This is just ONE address.

All righty then...........my apologies to my Great Grandfathers who came here LEGALLY asking for nothing but a JOB.
And my Grandfathers who fought in WWII to preserve this country and our way of life.
And my Father who served in the name of AMERICA, for the country he so loved.
Gun totin' bible thumpers everyone!

For allowing all the ILLEGALS to pour into America unabated and CRAP all over our laws and suck off the teat created buy secular progressives in the name of civility.
And your only response is the Republicans are afraid the teat suckers will vote for more teat.

How truly pathetic.
I don't have the words top describe my contempt for that thought process (or lack there of)!!!!

My LORD, what have we become????

Laws not enforced get no respect. 11,000,000 have proven that. Are you ready to spend the money it will now take to get some respect for the law?? You aren't going to get it done with volunteers. Are you ready to crack down hard on the Gringos that benefit from employing illegals? Or would that be Big Brother extending his long arm on the action of individuals? Are you ready to spend the billions to round them up and send them back? Want to throw those 11 million lawbreakers in jail? How many jails do you want to build and how much do you want to spend to run them? Exactly what do you want?

By the way, Stan, you are the one that interjected "teat suckers" and that is not what I said. I said the Republicans are scared $#!tless that they would vote Democrat if given citizenship. The GOP minions have said that in previous postings. I am saying the Republicans are clueless about getting votes from people that don't look like them.

Laws not enforced get no respect. 11,000,000 have proven that. Are you ready to spend the money it will now take to get some respect for the law?? You aren't going to get it done with volunteers. Are you ready to crack down hard on the Gringos that benefit from employing illegals? Or would that be Big Brother extending his long arm on the action of individuals? Are you ready to spend the billions to round them up and send them back? Want to throw those 11 million lawbreakers in jail? How many jails do you want to build and how much do you want to spend to run them? Exactly what do you want?

By the way, Stan, you are the one that interjected "teat suckers" and that is not what I said. I said the Republicans are scared $#!tless that they would vote Democrat if given citizenship. The GOP minions have said that in previous postings. I am saying the Republicans are clueless about getting votes from people that don't look like them.

And the secular progressives BUY their vote by providing a bigger TEAT to suck on!!!

zeus3925...Offspring of illegals....perhaps you have a strong bias on this issue? YOU Think??!! Regardless, let's be clear the "non-RINO" Republicans in Washington have been standing on one issue all a long. CLOSE THE BORDERS FIRST! This is based on common since, stop the flow of illegals into the US, then we can actually work on a solution that works for those here now. The DEM's have consistently refused to support any legitimate bill/amendment that would truly commit Congress to CLOSE THE BORDERS FIRST! Therefore, clear thinking Republicans cannot support this bill from the Senate.....again pretty simple common since! And Yes a few non RINO Republican Senators, got sucked in on the hype...(Rubio and others)....they will pay the price for this later....

Are you claiming Mayflower rights ? My ancestors Legally came through Ellis Island & were welcomed with nothing except assimilate or starve.[/QUOTE
Since you essentialy challenged me, Marv, I have some Native American heritage traceable to four tribes. My European heritage goes back to 1635 on this continent. And that, Marvin, and a buck-50 might buy a regular cup of coffee.

My real point is that the attitude: I-have-mine-and-screw-you--among Republicans is just damn outright petty. So is the fear of new citizens voting Democrat. If the Republicans cannot win the favor of immigrants, maybe it is time they go to charm school. The Republicans are loosing that group because they offer nothing but obstruction and little in the way of customer service to that constituency.

First off they are not citizens, and they sure as hell aren't customers because they don't pay for anything.

And the secular progressives BUY their vote by providing a bigger TEAT to suck on!!!

With other peoples money..............

I see , Stan you avoid offering a solution. My point is that anything you do to stem illegal immigration will cost the taxpayers money. The cheapest way to deal with those here is to grant citizenship to those who earn it and then focus on those who don't wish or bother to pursue citizenship. Those that don't get on the path limit the stay. to effectively seal the border you are going to need a vast increase in manpower. That will cost you money. You could use the armed forces to close the border but that will still cost you money and the law would have to be changed to permit it.

Instead, Stan, you respond by hurling invectives. "Secular Progressive". Is that a code for Atheist?

As for buying votes with government payouts, I see you are as well tuned to the electorate as Willard was. Two Cadillacs for the wife, regards.