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Rosenes was arrested that night. The longtime community activist has received the Order of Canada for his work.

How old were you then?

I would have been 33. I was self-employed at the time. I had my own sales and distribution company with a business partner, distributing all manner of imported goods to boutiques and department stores in Toronto.

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What were you doing that night?

Ron Rosenes, 68, who was at the Romans II that night, said "Group sex was not encouraged. People were encouraged to have sex one on one behind closed doors." (Rick Madonik / Toronto Star file photo)

I was partnered but I was out playing on my own that night. I was in a very committed 15-year relationship with my partner at the time, but we gave each other permission to “go out and play” from time to time.

What were the bathhouses like?

I was at the Romans II, a big one on Bay, one of the most popular ones. It attracted a nice crowd of people of various ages — we’re talking about the early ’80s so there wasn’t a lot of drug use or that kind of thing. People were there to enjoy themselves. Usually that meant consensual sex between men over the age of 21 in a private room with no exchange of money. It was wrong and infuriating to be described as a “found-in” in a common bawdy house.

There were central areas where people could relax and watch TV … There were dimly lit hallways with individual rooms. Group sex was not encouraged. People were encouraged to have sex one on one behind closed doors. I think that really was typical of the Roman bathhouse at the time. There may have been some public sex of some sort but not much of that went in my recollection.

What were you doing when the police arrested you?

I wasn’t doing anything. I was not caught in flagrante delicto … I was just in my room, by myself, for a moment when all of a sudden all hell broke loose and doors were being knocked down. And we were told to gather at the front of the bathhouse in our towels. I remember getting dressed before I left.

And you felt safe there?

I felt safe. I never thought for a moment that the police would turn into the morality squad and crack down on legal activities.

What happened when you went to court?

It was nerve-racking. And my lawyer at the time, for reasons that remain a mystery to me, decided to put me on the stand, where I incriminated myself. Think about it: today they keep defendants off the stand so they don’t incriminate themselves. Well, I was sworn to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and I had to admit to the fact that I was there that night. I was found guilty. I paid a fine — don’t remember how much it was. And to my knowledge, if there ever was a criminal record it was expunged. I have no criminal record as a result.

Were you already out? Did your family know?

I was. My family knew. My friends knew. Unlike some of the people that were caught in the bathhouse raids who were not disclosed. I was particularly concerned about that. I had an understanding relationship with my partner. My friends and family all knew and supported me as a young gay man. That really helped me deal with the situation — in sharp contrast to those individuals whose names were disclosed through the press and their sexual identity was not known to their friends and family. I understand it had a devastating impact on some people.

And it was a time when there wasn’t a lot of acceptance of anonymous gay sex?

I felt I was part of a movement towards greater sexual liberation. And it was just prior to the arrival of HIV in our lives. And without knowledge at that time of the devastation that awaited us. I lost my partner of 15 years in 1991.

After the raid and the demonstration, was that a time of liberation?

That night, if it did not politicize me, the arrival in my life of HIV politicized me completely. I quit my work and I began 25 years of volunteer work in HIV-related advocacy. Thinking about the massacre in Orlando 35 years later reminds me that we were not safe in 1981 and that is still the case today. We’ve come a long way but we still have a long way to go in protecting the rights of people in the LGBTQ community, including the right to a fulfilling and responsible sex life.

John Burt, 69

John Burt, seen in an image from "Track Two," a documentary on the bathhouse raids of 1981. Burt says no one has ever taken responsibility for the "thuggery" of that night. (Track Two)

After the raids, Burt became vice-chair of the Right to Privacy Committee and helped organize the first major pride parade in 1981 in response to the raids. Burt says it had 167 participants — with what he remembers as 14 balloons and a banner — and 500 police flanking them for their protection.

Would you be interested in an apology?

Only for the police behaviour that night … The police thuggery that night was never fully addressed. And no one has taken responsibility for that. There’s been a series of lies. No one has ever come clean about it. I was outraged as a human being to see my police force, who I had no contact with before, acting like thugs — smashing indiscriminately through doorways, breaking glass, stealing (jewellery) from people’s rooms … I never thought such things were possible.

What were you doing that night?

I’d like to correct the record. I don’t consider myself a “found-in.” That’s a legal term. I was a patron at a gay establishment for men only, where men socialized. In those days, remember 35 years ago, they needed safe spaces . . . The younger generation doesn’t even realize what a sea change has happened in the world. But it’s only superficial. It’s only in big cities and because of the liberal elites. But the core … and the conservatives … they go along with the law but they’re not content with this idea of homosexual equality.

Which bathhouse were you at?

I was at the Richmond St. bathhouse. It was called the Richmond Street Health Emporium. It was a beautiful place. It was multilevelled, encased in glass, with a central swimming pool. It was one of the most beautiful bathhouses we’ve ever had in Toronto. It was like a hotel. And the police totally demolished it.

Was it anonymous sex?

Yes. You have to remember that gay men in those days didn’t have a positive image. They were still contaminated from the propaganda we grew up with where we were perceived as perverts and demonic forces and that you can’t trust your children around them. A lot of gay people at the time internalized that. They almost had a self-hatred. And the only way they could have gay sex was to go to an anonymous … safe environment.

What was happening in your life then?

I was a (high school) teacher at the time. That was one of the reasons I knew that night I had to take a stand because first of all . . . I’d never heard of the word “found in” in my life. I had no idea what it meant or what a bawdy house meant. It was a minor misdemeanour. But being a teacher I couldn’t afford to have that sort of record. I could have lost my job. So I had to make a decision that night that I had to become an activist. Sometimes, if I thought about it too much I would have shut my mouth. But I couldn’t let that go by.

Were you already out when you were arrested?

No I wasn’t. That was one of the terrible things. When my family saw me on television, because I became a spokesperson, my father was in a state of shock. My mother didn’t understand what was going on. The neighbours were phoning. It wasn’t a perfect way to come out to your parents.

Was there any big fallout when people found out you were gay?

I lost a lot of friends who didn’t want to do anything with me. They just couldn’t accept me being gay. They departed from my life. But after that I started becoming very assertive and became much more content with myself, to now being the outrageous person that I am now with no hang-ups. It took me six decades to unload all the garbage from my mind. And now, totally free, you can still have fun even at 70.

What happened to your charges?

All the charges were dismissed . . . except for six people . . . I remember when I was in that locker room with a 100 different gay men, we were naked. Some of us lost our towels. We were herded into a room while they were demolishing the place … naked men being verbally abused and physiologically abused … that’s when I decided to talk…. I finally joined up with the Right to Privacy Committee and we organized the lawyers and committees. People donated their time. It was a wonderful period.

Do you still go to the Pride parade?

Oh yes, of course I still go to it. I still feel a great need to show pride. People say why do we have the parade today? I say because we can’t become complacent….(there are religions where) in their minds homosexuals should be killed.

Is Toronto fairly safe?

Toronto is safe but I still hear of occurrences of people getting beat up late at night on the street downtown….but the police today are a real improvement. I support the police. I think they’re doing a good job.

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