Last night if you guys remember I was still working on the whole video card issue. Well I was looking in the Catylst Control center of ATI and was trying to click outside the drop down list when I accidentally clicked Autolasing and 2x. Which doing so froze my computer. Each time I'd restart into normal mode it froze. In safe mode it didn't. So I got the independent tech to come over and work on it. He did somethign in msconfig to stop a process that was doing it. Even though I uninstalled the ATI Catylist Control center that had that option in it the computer would freeze. So he corrected it in msconfig.

We talked about the ATI card he put in. We discovered that this computer I've had since 1999. Wow. So I guess I must be doing something right for it to last so long.

However, with my computer being old and the incompatability issues with KOTOR and the current card and not knowing if a NVIDA would even work on this computer he suggested I simply next time I get a new computer that I call Dell and ask them to put together a computer and try to see if they will put XP on it since that's what KOTOR will do.

As before my budget to spend. The max I can spend is 15000 dollars. From this whole experience that frightened me and made me sick to my stomach that I thought he was going to have to end up wiping the computer, thankfully he didn't have to. But since this was a bad experience for me I say never again will I screw with video card stuff.

I'll just call up Dell sometime and get them to put together a computer that will run KOTOR games well. Yeah at this point still can't play KOTOR on this computer. I think this computer is old enough that will be a problem not matter what anyway. I just don't want to mess with it anymore.

I can wait a few months for a new computer. So what I need from you guys is if you can let's make up a idea for a new computer that is made to play KOTOR. Let's make that dream computer.

Thank you guys. I'm just happy that today I feel a lot better after my computer now can load again. lol.

I've never heard the words "dream computer" and KOTOR in the same sentence. I mean, if you have a small budget, most computers out there will run KOTOR very well right now at a low price...more specifics of what you want would be nice.

Well because K1-2 has issues with Vista right now it should be an XP. It should have a DVD and CD drive, and Flash drive. I don't need a zip or A drive anymore. Flat panel monitor(preferabily 19, 21inch), I'd like to be able to play K1-2, EaW/FoC, and Starcraft 2 if that is possible. I'd like the card to bele to allow for the max settings in K1-2. It'd be cool if it could run Starcraft 2, but I'm not sure in that it will be a new game and K1-2 are older. I'm not sure if it will work. Also, my current computer has trouble with EaW in that if you reach max unit capacity in the galaxy map the game becomes sluggish. I was told it was due to my processor being a Pentium 4 and that I would told I should get a processor better than that.

Also, the resolution of the card does not need to be high. I am visually impared and have one eye. The other is a prosthetic. I was born with one eye and am low vision. I sue Zoomtext. But like I said I play K1-2 and love it. Well loved it when this computer wasn't messed up and old. Yeah I play xbox live and no one knows I'm blind or suspects it. So its not like I'm with little vision or anything. lol.

I know some things, but please for any configuration, or what driver to stay at please tell me with the new computer when I get it. I don't want to mess up my old computer to where I have that whole driver mess up. So I want to know what I'm doing. My resoultion I use all the time is 800x 600. I sue it because its biggest for me.

He said since service pack 2 and 3 you no longer have to do that. He said that was true you had to reinstall every year or so during the time before and during the time of service pack 1. While I've adked you about a computer I've also been asking on Obsiden too. To make it a more collaborative effort and put all the qualified minds together, let's collaborate. Currently tehy've hleped me to come up with some specs:

What do you think of this current specs? I'm currently asking them if the graphics card will also play Starcraft 2. They say this card does play Oblivion and World of Warcraft on highest settings just fine. But I would not want to play Oblivion. I mean if KOTOR can be adictive, I can't imagine what Oblivion or World of Warcraft is all about. But if they have guys playing 15 hours a day on it and losing their jobs due to it, lol, it would be a bad idea for me since I love KOTOR so much. It's a project. Working on a galaxy, being an arcatech of shaping it to how I want and doing LS and DS wiht care on how I want it is so satisfying.

But since your looking for a computer as well this helps because it puts all ideas together and together it can only help to make a better outcome and knowledge to all becomes spread around to better the outcome.

Yeah, that's a really decent rig. It'll run more than just KotOR alone, though, and I mean games that run on engines as advanced as the Unreal Engine 3, such as Mass Effect. The flash drive is totally optional, though. In fact, if you want to save lots of dough, you might as well buy all of the parts individually from retailers and just assemble everything yourself.

What's a "corei7 crossfire 4870X2"? Is that the cpu, processor, or what? Yeah I know. SD you are so "nar nar nar na nar nar nar". That was my sucky attempt to do the sound of a banjo like I must be dumb if I don't know what that "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" meant. Which I don't. Whta's it mean?

Now you get to see in that thread my helmet wearing lack of tech knowlege from another forum. lol.

But anyway, I appreciate this guys. Q and these guys working together will be great in haveing multiple ideas and help this family with a new computer. Games for me, newer less slow comptuer for them, and everyone will be able to do their pictures, itunes, music, and etc.

Things have sure changed since way back when I remember my first computer was a 286 and it only held 6MB. Back then that was like the best you could get. Yeah I'm old. lol. I's just amazing how in the late 80's it was that and now just a decade or so later huge, amazing, sleak pcs have changed so much.

What's a "corei7 crossfire 4870X2"? Is that the cpu, processor, or what? Yeah I know. SD you are so "nar nar nar na nar nar nar". That was my sucky attempt to do the sound of a banjo like I must be dumb if I don't know what that "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" meant. Which I don't. Whta's it mean?

Briefly, it's a very advanced graphics card. And when I mean advanced, I mean that you can run games of the future on that beast.

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Things have sure changed since way back when I remember my first computer was a 286 and it only held 6MB. Back then that was like the best you could get. Yeah I'm old. lol. I's just amazing how in the late 80's it was that and now just a decade or so later huge, amazing, sleak pcs have changed so much.

So is this "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" a NVIDA? Also, as you can see from the thread link these guys really need to come to a consensuc. lol. They tell me when I do call up Dell about say a monitor that they don't do as good when it comes to asking for say a 21inch flat panel monitor. How come? Also with XP on this new system should I go with 32 or 64 bit. I hear that with 64 some older programs don't work on it. I heard something from komando.com that 64 bit with win xp was a neightmare? And so this "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" should be able to play K1-2, EaW/FoC, andStarcraft 2?

Also, as you can see from the thread link these guys really need to come to a consensuc. lol. They tell me when I do call up Dell about say a monitor that they don't do as good when it comes to asking for say a 21inch flat panel monitor. How come?

...what did you say?

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Also with XP on this new system should I go with 32 or 64 bit.

Go with 32-bit. 'Nuff said.

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And so this "corei7 crossfire 4870X2" should be able to play K1-2, EaW/FoC, andStarcraft 2?

Yeah one of those guys said on there something about that would be difficult with Dell to get a 21inch monitor. I'd have to look back to see where it was. But non the less we're deciding on the monitor. I do like the ones where it can be descrete monitor. You know tose where you look to the side and you can't see the screen unless your incront of it. At least that's what I think mine is. Less bright when you look from the side. They did say on this thread it depends on which monitor do you like when it comes to flat panel. They asked if I liked neon lights. I have no idea of what that would be.

Didn't we say though that KOTOR runs better on NVIDA rahter than ATI? Q said something about that. Isn't 60fps less than 75? I remember KOTOR runs max of 75. So it won't run Starcraft 2 your saying?

No, it doesn't matter who the manufacturer is, only how powerful the card is.

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Q said something about that. Isn't 60fps less than 75?

Yep, 60<75, obviously.

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I remember KOTOR runs max of 75.

I don't think KotOR has a preset framerate cap. Then again, I've never had an average framerate over 50 in KotOR, so there's no way that I could test that in-game.

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So it won't run Starcraft 2 your saying?

No, no, no, it will run on something as powerful as the 4870. I'm saying that a GPU like that will run a game as powerful as Crysis. Since KotOR is a five year old game, with it running on a next-gen GPU such as the 4870 or GTX 260, it will dramatically improve the performance of something such as KotOR.

For $1500 you can do a lot better than that...if that costs $1500, it is way overpriced (even in Canadian dollars). Btw, as far as I know, the Gigabyte M61 Mobo is for the AM2 socket and it won't work with the e8400 CPU. Also, the nvidia 9500gt is a very average card. It will work for kotor but don't expect it to max out games like Oblivion (well probably at 800x600 but definitely not much higher and newer games will be more demanding). However, if Kotor is all you want to play, then any recent video card, even lower end will work.

Btw, do you really need an already built system or are you willing to build one yourself (or do you have someone who can build one for you) ? If so, you can get better quality components at a lower price.

edit: also, if you have vision problems, I'd recommend a monitor with a bigger dot pitch, such as a 22" instead of a 21"...my dad, who has very poor vision now, has one now and he loves it as he is able to slightly boost the resolution (not much as the difference is still very small) and get a little more info on the screen while he is still able to read it.

And don't bother with a 64 bit OS unless you intend to get more than 4 gigs of ram (which is also pretty useless for gaming right now, especially for Kotor lol). Although the 32-bit version will only recognize slightly more than 3GB, it seems that it is still not worth it to get a 64bits OS for 4GB: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...op,1775-5.html

if you are referring to getting fixed for KOTOR, I would like to tell you quite categorically:

KOTOR WASNT DESIGNED FOR VISTA

The associated implications:
1. It isnt MS responsibility to fix. BioWare has no legacy partnership with MS ensure backward compatibility for subsequent OSs. Some engines made it through to vista virtually unscathed. A massive online community, like CStrike etc, usually ensures some legacy compatibility. KOTOR doesnt have this. Its a dwindling title, not a growing one. eg. I spend alot of time on a KOTOR forum, but havent played it for 2 years. Im sure Im not the only one!

2. BioWare/Obsidian would need to do a complete overhaul to fix it - will they: NO

3. Dont expect KOTOR to work in Windows7 for the same reasons as stated in 1.

Just stay with xp @Like D33 said, KOTOR in 64bit is a no-no, and x64 gaming isnt really happenning atm

However, please be aware that the article from Toms submitted does not fully inform > it reminds me of why I want to take that freakin hammer from Toms logo and throw it at Tom, whomever he may be

Lets redress the imbalance, for incomplete information is more dangerous than complete ignorance

After reading that, people would go around saying "hey dude, 64 bit is no good unless you have 8gb RAM. I read it on Toms man. Like for real! "

Yes, 64 bit is good, for two things especially:*Niche applications > apps 'made to utilise x64' No, this doesnt include playing KOTOR with the 1337 custom stripy purple tunic and neckerchief someone modded. These niche apps are used by professionals in the fields of engineering, design, graphical design, animation and video editing applications.

*High end networking Servers: 64 bit OS perpetuate because of the server market. In Vista Ultimate there is a max capacity of 128GB RAM. That wasnt done by accident. Integrated with Windows Server 2008, the capabilities of networks built on these OS are significantly higher than ones based on server 2003 and xp x86.

Sure, this isnt relevant to many casual users or gamers. But it needs to be said. Knowing that, people can go out and instead say "64 bit wont really help much in gaming. It best works in programs written for it like professional video and graphical programs, and high end servers"

Finally, a decent article from Toms would have taken 5-10 commonly used apps from games to photoshop to video converters and put them through their paces on both OS variants and with 2,4,6-8GB etc. This should also include some niche application figures to demonstrate the x64 advantage when that advantage is being specifically targeted.

This would help if we just edit this list. Like I said yeah I will read taht artile you guys mentioned to learn more, but so far a lot of this hardware stuf I know little about. I'd be great if I could by the end of this have a plan together that I can just read out to dell or something and say this is what I want build it. And of course have Q's computer he's finding too and be able to have two ideas to decide on. Who knows the final specs could improve upon Q's. And Q's could improve upon these. In the end one gret final product.

But yeah with my little vision I wouldn't be able to see the hardware to put it together. So maybe that tech guy might be able to put it together. He has on this computer put in the video card, ram, and cloned to a bigger hard drive. This above list is stuff with notes that has been or is being worked on by both this and the ohter Obsiden thread.

To clarify: a 4870X2 is a dual-GPU graphics card by ATI which is the most powerful graphics card on the market right now, and a Core i7 is Intel's newest CPU that was released a week a go and replaces Core2 Duo and Core2 Quad. They're both pretty new, so I'm not surprised that you haven't heard of them. You won't need either one of those. They're too expensive and way beyond your needs.

"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.

Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."

I was thinking more along the lines of something like this Dell Inspiron 530 for $449.00. Check out the specs: Q6600, 3GB. It'll be a fixer-upper, yes, but even as-is it's a way better deal than that XPS. It comes with integrated graphics , but it also has a graphics card slot and the integrated graphics can serve as a backup if your graphics card dies. Dell has a deal going on where they ship the computer with XP installed and supply you with the reinstallation disks for both XP and Vista (and quite possibly a COA for both, making a dual-boot setup possible for no extra cost), and they could probably be convinced to do that in this case, but it might involve some email tag or talking with a living sales rep on the phone. They may also be willing to switch out that Q6600 for an E8400 or even an E8500, either of which I think would better serve your needs, because for now a faster dual-core is better than a slower quad-core in games. It would also be wise to ask just how big of a video card that case can accommodate.

The computer I linked you to is a good start, but it will need some things like a monitor, speakers, a video card and a power supply that can handle the video card. We're not getting any of these items from Dell because their markup on them is nothing short of ridiculous.

To start off, you're going to need to do two things. First, go to Newegg and sign up for their newsletter. Doing so will let you use their promotional codes to get stuff like discounts and free shipping. Second, go to MS Live Search and sign up for their cash back program. Do these things now because I'm going to start throwing some deals at you. You'll be doing some of your shopping through Live Search to earn cash back. The links that I've provided below are for reference only. You'll want to purchase these items through Live Search's cash back program after you sign up for it.

Power Supply:OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W, $27.99 after rebate with free shipping.
We'll start with the power supply because the deal that I found on it ends tomorrow (as in Wednesday, 11/26). It's not the very best PSU, but it will be more than adequate for your needs. Besides, it's 72% off. Be sure to follow the instructions on the rebate form to the letter so that you get your money. Go ahead and buy it and if you find out that for some reason you don't need it you can Fleabay it for a profit. People do it all the time; I do. I don't think that Live Search's cash back program will apply to this item because it's on sale, but it never hurts to try.

Monitor:SVA 2400w 24" 1920x1200 LCD Monitor, $259.99, $246.99 after Live Search Cash Back.
I'm sure you've never heard of the brand, and it's very likely that neither has anyone else (it's actually Sylvania), and you're probably wondering why I'm recommending it. Well, it's because this monitor is the least expensive 24" 8-bit VA (as in PVA or MVA) panel that I know of, as opposed to the other 24" monitors in this price range that are all 6-bit TN panels. A 24" Dell monitor with this type of panel would be at least double the price. What's the difference between an 8-bit VA panel and a 6-bit TN? The VA has far better color representation and a much wider viewing angle so that the image doesn't wash out when you're looking at the monitor from any angle other than straight on. If this model had been available at this price when I was in the market for an LCD, I would have bought it instead of the crappy TN panel that I'm using now.

Video Card:
I'll have to get back to you on this one, because there are no outstanding deals that I can find ATM. My bet is on the Nvidia GTX260 because it's gone EOL (End Of Life) and is being replaced by the GTX260 Core216. The negligible difference in performance between the two is not worth the ~$100.00 price premium, IMO. I saw an EVGA model briefly at Newegg for $170.00 after rebate about a week ago, but Newegg pulled it in a matter of hours. With Black Friday coming up there's bound to be something soon, so you shouldn't have to spend any more than $200.00 for a good graphics card, and you're going to need a good graphics card with a large frame buffer to drive that monitor. I'll keep looking.

If all goes well you're going to have around $70.00 to spend on a decent set of speakers and you'll still be hovering at ~$1000.00 for total system cost. And you'll be set with a positively kickass computer.

"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.

Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."

I should've said this earlier. I simply wanted to get a list of specs and links to those specs so tht when I and the family are done with our other projects(home projects) we'll get onto this. For example we've been thinking about redoing the kitchen. And Thanksgiving is soon so there is that.

I was simply trying to get the info together so that we know what we want when we go to get a computer. I'm sorry I think I said this earlier, but maybe I didn't. Besides, it will be cheaper to have the links to the parts so they can be purchased. The tech fella can assemble it and there you go. Saves money. Besides, he charges us less in that he knows us. Heck times when he's had to come over he hasn't even charged us for the time he should in that he's nice.

The great thing is the family will have the computer they signed up for. You see they know this guy from Church that were he works they get in old computers that they wipe, refurbish, and give to those who need them. These computers are about 3yr old. So they get their computer, and I get mine. It's great in that they'll no longet have to bump me off the computer to do stuff. We'll have our own computers.

I apprecite this. I should've added that earlier. I think I did, but if I didn't, I am now.. Thanks.

You should still go ahead and sign up for both the Live Search Cash Back program and the Newegg newsletter. Live Search cash back can save you money on all sorts of things besides computer components.

I'm going to warn you that I doubt that any system built from separate components will be any cheaper than the setup I posted above. That Dell is really that cheap. The advantage will be in the quality of all of the components and the fact that they will come with a longer warranty from their respective manufacturers free of charge. I'll try to find as many components as I can with a lifetime warranty as well.

I stand by the monitor recommendation that I made above, however, in spite of its one-year warranty. You're just not going to find a better deal on that grade of panel anywhere.

List of components:
Motherboard: ASUS P5Q PRO
CPU: Intel E8400
Memory: We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. As long as your motherboard supports it you've got nothing to worry about.
Hard Drive: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB
CD/DVD Writer: I can't really make an educated recommendation here. I've always used LiteOn, myself.
Video card: Nvidia GTX260 Core216 -The best deals around are on these right now, and contrary to what I said above, they are worth the extra cost over the base GTX260 because they're only about $25-$30 more. Of course, this is subject to change at any time.
Power Supply: Once again, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. It should have ~40 amps on the +12v rail. I prefer those with long warranties of 5 years or more.
Monitor: See my above post.
Case: The only recommendation I can make here is not to go overboard. You can get a very decent one for $50-$60.
Peripherals like keyboard, mouse and speakers: You can't go wrong with Logitech.

Depending on the deals available when you're ready to buy, all of this should come to around the same price as the Dell system and components listed above, give or take $100.00. Expect to spend around $1000.00 for all of it, including a copy of Windows XP.

"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.

Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."

The tech guy will be doing this yes. The only thing that bothers me is that when I told him of the problem tht I had with the ATI card he said he didn't know you were not to install a driver update ontop of another driver update. So I'm just a little unsure when we get it all assembled of what to do then. I don't want him to put in the wrong driver from the start. And I'll need to have the correct driver so that I can have KOTOR and Starcraft and not have something to old of an update or too new and have one or the other not working.

My suggestion is that since you're going to have an Nvidia card just install the latest driver for XP available, since AFAIK Nvidia cards have had fewer problems with KotOR and Astro has reported no problems running KotOR with is G80-based card and up-to-date drivers. Since you'll be starting from scratch on a clean install of Windows XP you won't have to worry about any leftovers from previous drivers lurking around in your registry.

"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.

Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."

Great. And since we know the graphics card to use can you give me a link to the drivers page for that card so I can be prepared in that sense in already having the page when I go to update it for the first time? And so I update it to the latest version. And every month I'll have to uninstall the old driver, go into safe mode, run driver sweeper, and install the next driver in windows correct?

Like I said he didn't know not to update a driver on top of another. So instead of him putting in the driver from the box like he started out with this one, what should I tell him? I know you have to do something before installing a driver. I don't know what he's suppoed to do, but I'm guessing you put the card in, go through the plug and play process and then put in a driver. Is that right? I';m just trying to figure out what to tell him because I don't want him to put something in that he shouldn't if he's suppoed to get the latest update.

You know so I can let him know do this and don't put in this. To modify the process as he installs things. I just want to be able to know what to tell him.

I also have the new revised list of the suggested specs for the new computer from Obsiden. Thta thread I gave a link to. Both you and them agree on at least some of the specs such as the procesor and video card. And since some of the specs you don't have, and some specs they don't have, but together both have specs for at least something I thought I'd post what they have in case it might help: