s2s2s2:FloydA: Can someone translate this from Derp to English for me?

It is easier to (atheistically)troll in white, christian USA, than it would be to do the same in Saudi Arabia.

If the government in the US operated the way southern white evangelicals want it to, atheists who spoke out here would have just as much reason to fear for their lives as the atheists in Muslim dominated countries do.

The difference between religion and science, you sorry excuse for an example of speciousness, is that if you fark up the rules of your religion, nothing bad is actually going to happen to you. But let's say you're an architect or a demolitions engineer: getting the science wrong may very well fark you up good and proper.

In other words, the universe does not give a shiat about your poorly constructed fairy tales.

MBrady:Repo Man: MBrady: cameroncrazy1984: common sense is an oxymoron: any assertion on either side is ultimately based on faith.

It might help to try to define what it is that you don't believe in

I don't believe in things with no evidence. That doesn't require any faith whatsoever.

Oh? So how do you know that 2+2 is 4? Because your 1st grade teacher told you it was? Did you ask her to prove it with evidence?

So you have faith in your 1st grade teacher that 2+2 does equal 4?

How do you know that pi is not a repeating number? Because your 8th grade math teacher told you? How many digits did that math teacher go to? 5? 10? Did you require that math teacher to prove it with evidence?

So you have faith in your math teacher that pi is not a repeating number, and went on your merry way?

Please continue giving examples of false equivalence.

Please continue ignoring your faith.

Yes, people do take things on faith that are presented by trusted individuals. The difference is that at any time you can delve into the details and find evidence that what you took on "faith" was true.

You mentioned pi right? If I wanted to validate that I need only find a physical circle and back out the math. Poof. My faith is validated.

Testability and hard evidence are what seperates religion and science.

It is a tough call for Atheists as it is hard to just ignore all the asshole theists out there. On the other hand I am typically against my fellow Aetheists trolling people. Not good for us overall and trying to appear smarter than bible thumpers is like picking a fight with a two year old.

I expect this thread is full of people stating that all atheists are smug assholes for this, yet having zero problem with the 1000x more common religious dicketry we get on a daily basis.

I'll get back to you right after I answer the door here. Looks like it's a couple of people who don't know me, but want to say they're better than I am and are more knowledgeable about the universe, even though they've never held a conversation with me before.

common sense is an oxymoron:whidbey: Giltric: My antiquated world view is "mind your own business" something that atheists nor the religious have a grasp of.

Oh I have a total grasp of it. But sometimes minding one's own business allows ignorance and injustices to continue unchallenged. See=any civil rights issue of the past 100 years.

But as a free thinking man of the times you do not see the irnoy of the atheists process to convert people to atheism or the attempted conversion? You sound very religiously atheist.

Free-thinkers don't try to push the fallacy that a system based on reason and knowledge is somehow a "religion." Troll harder, dude.

Atheism isn't a religion, but it is based on faith rather than irrefutable evidence.

Prove it.

No, seriously, I want you to prove that my unwillingness to support your bald assertion is a form of "faith." Tell me, with a strait face, that my unwillingness to accept your claims requires as much "faith" as your willingness to propose them.

Theists say "there is a god." We agree that this claim requires "faith."

Shostie:FloydA: Rule number one of atheist advertising should be "don't be an asshole."

As far as I'm concerned, that's rule number one of life.

THESE.

/"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind."

As Christians find joy in "the sacrifice of the figure of Christ Jesus," Moore adds, "your Humanist siblings are likewise jubilant at the death of God, and we embrace the necessity of sacrifice from one for each other, in the interest of advancing a human-centered ethic that benefits us all."

nocturnal001:FloydA: Z-clipped: [stupid troll's name redacted]: FloydA: Can someone translate this from Derp to English for me?

It is easier to (atheistically)troll in white, christian USA, than it would be to do the same in Saudi Arabia.

If the government in the US operated the way southern white evangelicals want it to, atheists who spoke out here would have just as much reason to fear for their lives as the atheists in Muslim dominated countries do.

Seems as though the god-botherers can't even keep their story straight. Salon whining about atheists being Islamophobes.

I don't understand your point.

Some Christians (like the troll whose name I snipped above) claim that the mean old atheists are unfairly "picking on" them and claim that atheists are too scared to say anything bad about Muslims, when in fact Hitchens, Dawkins, and others are equally critical of all religions, including (and perhaps especially) Islam. The self-appointed defenders of Christianity only notice when they think they are being "attacked." And the supposed "attacks" on Christianity are things like saying "happy holidays" or Google commemorating the birthday of Cesar Chavez.

I just don't like whiners who declare themselves perpetual victims over the most trivial things, in hopes of getting sympathy.

s2s2s2:And also far less necessary. Atheists are winning in the courts. The trolls are happening as a result of those victories, not in hopes of. It is the atheistic equivalent of evangelistic trolling.

That is also why the thread more rapidly becomes about who is correct, rather than an admonishment of who is being a dick in a given situation.

Well, while it's technically being a dick, the underdog being a bit of a dick in a relatively light-hearted fashion in an era where there is like one atheist in national government total is kind of hard to treat as a crime against humanity, it's just mild sarcastic subversiveness.

And it's in response to the continual religious displays on public property every other damned week, including outright permanent ones at courthouses, so the religious people not only started it, they're much bigger offenders.

The My Little Pony Killer:Oh please. Like no religion has ever paid for and put up advertising that insults people of other faiths. They just don't like it when the same game gets played against them instead of to their advantage.

I think it's something like "I refuse to recognize that atheists might have a legitimate reason to be annoyed at the Christians in this country, so their reasons for taking jabs at religion must not have any purpose but to be purely childish and contrarian."

It was a stupid question to begin with. On one hand, you have a few little atheist groups here and there taking out potshot ads that occasionally cross the line into trollish and counterproductive. On the other hand, you have US Congressmen and Senators speaking out in the media using religious dogma to deny American people their basic civil rights. This ad is like shooting a Sherman tank with a BB gun, but you know... there's nothing religious people like better than imagining themselves to be David when they're really Goliath.

s2s2s2:That is also why the thread more rapidly becomes about who is correct, rather than an admonishment of who is being a dick in a given situation.

I agree that atheists should keep their message positive because that will ultimately help their cause the most, but if conservatives are looking for blanket condemnation of borderline tasteless ads like the the one in TFA, they've got a long wait for a train that isn't coming. Especially considering the number of farkers with big broad brushes painting away in the first 20 or so posts of the thread.

Do you preface every affirmative statement about the world with "Assuming that I exist, and that there is no Evil Genius tricking me into believing in reality..."?

Are you OK with people making the claim that "Santa Claus isn't real" without an epistemological disclaimer first? Because atheists dismiss gods using precisely the same logic that most adults use to dismiss Santa. The ONLY difference between the argument for Santa and the argument for god is the degree of Wishful Thinking involved.

Modern philosophers generally agree on what atheism is, as do most of the atheists on Fark. It's generally only the theists and the "devil's advocates", like yourself, who try to portray atheism as something other than it is.

There are many flavors of atheism, but the common defining characteristic is simply a lack of belief in gods. If you start from there, you won't have as many problems understanding the position.

s2s2s2:Z-clipped: common sense is an oxymoron: When there is no way (at least from our current perspective) to settle the question one way or the other, how is the statement "There is NO god" based on anything other than faith?

Onus Probandi.

...would apply to anyone making a claim, one way or the other.

It applies to the positive claim, "God exists". Atheists generally do not claim that all gods do not exist. Only that because the positive claim lacks any evidence, it can be easily dismissed. When an atheist says "there is no god", it should be read as "for all intents, the likelihood that there is a god is negligible". In other words, if there were no positive claim being made on the part of the theist, there would be no argument.

Oh please. Like no religion has ever paid for and put up advertising that insults people of other faiths. They just don't like it when the same game gets played against them instead of to their advantage.

common sense is an oxymoron:True. But then, what is atheism? I may be splitting hairs here, but to me being "adamant that there is no god" is what separates atheism from hard agnosticism.

There is no separation between atheism and agnosticism, nor does there need to be. Almost all atheists are agnostic, because agnosticism is an epistemological position and has nothing to do with whether gods exist or not. It is not a "third opstion" between atheism and theism. It does not mean you are "undecided",

You really need to study up on your logic if you're going to try to wield it in discussions like this.

common sense is an oxymoron:When the very definition of "god" is open to interpretation, disproof becomes far more difficult, perhaps even impossible.

This position is known as Ignosticism.

common sense is an oxymoron:For the record, I don't believe that the existence of God(s) CAN be proven; and furthermore, given the fact that there seem to be about as many definitions of "god" as there are believers, I find it pointless to believe in one particular definition over any of the others.

Congratulations. You're an agnostic atheist.

common sense is an oxymoron:When there is no evidence to support either side of the argument, any assertion on either side is ultimately based on faith.

MBrady:cameroncrazy1984: common sense is an oxymoron: any assertion on either side is ultimately based on faith.

It might help to try to define what it is that you don't believe in

I don't believe in things with no evidence. That doesn't require any faith whatsoever.

Oh? So how do you know that 2+2 is 4? Because your 1st grade teacher told you it was? Did you ask her to prove it with evidence?

So you have faith in your 1st grade teacher that 2+2 does equal 4?

How do you know that pi is not a repeating number? Because your 8th grade math teacher told you? How many digits did that math teacher go to? 5? 10? Did you require that math teacher to prove it with evidence?

So you have faith in your math teacher that pi is not a repeating number, and went on your merry way?

Lenny_da_Hog:Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: That's how you tell if someone is secure in their atheism. They go out of their way to needlessly provoke those who believe.

I'll get back to you right after I answer the door here. Looks like it's a couple of people who don't know me, but want to say they're better than I am and are more knowledgeable about the universe, even though they've never held a conversation with me before.

So my Dad is Atheist (my brother probably is, I'm agnostic). My family is Polish Catholic, so most/.all of our family traditions are completely intertwined with Catholic traditions.

The one day a year, as long as I've been alive, that my Dad goes to Mass is on Easter. From what I can gather... because a) it means something to my Mom, and at one point my brother and I and b) because one day a year won't kill him, especially if it's important to his family ( / just my Mom, these days).

/I'll just leave this there//Agnostic///Gonna be in church tomorrow, like I do on Ash Wednesday and... that's about it////But it still kind of matters to me, and again, my atheist for at least 3 decades that I know of Dad... even if we don't really believe in the events relayed, the message is still relevant. And the family tradition is most certainly relevant.

If someone doesn't believe in something why do they need someone who believes in something to prove to them that that something exists? If it was all about not believeing they would just go their merry way onstead of trying to force their lack of belief on others......

People don't have to prove anything. Birthers do not have to prove that Barrack Obama is not a citizen of the United States. They are free to believe that, and no one has the right to tell them otherwise. I'm free to mock them for having that belief, and I'm under no obligation to either share their belief, or treat is as sacred just because they hold it. This is true of many beliefs.

IoSaturnalia:BMFPitt: s2s2s2: cameroncrazy1984: s2s2s2: To determine if your atheism has any relation to faith, answer the question below.

Is there a god?

There is no evidence that there is a god, no.

How can you be sure of that?

Because someone in this thread would have pointed it out.

This. If there was any evidence whatsoever for the existance of a deity, the 4 billion theists on this planet would be rubbing our noses in it constantly.

They do. At least, they rub our noses in what they believe is evidence in the existence of their deity. Of course, they're really large books of bronze age fables mixed together with self-fulfilling prophecies, but that's enough evidence for someone who needs none.

bulldg4life:This group sounds like a bunch of jackbags that are no better than the fundamentalist Christians they despise.

Now, the "our families are great without religion" one is good. You can advocate your morals and ideas outside of religion without throwing stones at the Christians to piss them off.

Doesn't matter what atheists say, Christians and other Religions will take any mention of non-religion as an attack on theirs. So they might as well go full-out. Because it's not the devout Christian they're trying to convert.

common sense is an oxymoron:When there is no way (at least from our current perspective) to settle the question one way or the other, how is the statement "There is NO god" based on anything other than faith?

Insert Morbo here. "Faith does not work that way!"

To put it this way, think of Harvey. What you're saying is that its a matter of faith that Elwood's a little different upstairs and that there is no Harvey the pooka. Or for a more real world and less amicable argument, try David Berkowitz. Is it a matter of faith that there was no dog telling him to kill people?

s2s2s2:So you have examined all evidence of any kind, any where, and determined, through your own research, that there exists no evidence pointing toward the existence of some extra terrestrial intelligence?

I bet you're just really confident in what you believe. If only there was a word for that.

One thing I always enjoy about these threads is the special pleading. The Christian theists consider it insulting when you lump their god in with all of the others. Of course they don't believe in Zeus or Apollo, or Isis - those gods are just made up! it's like what Doug Stanhope said: "That's why they have to pump into your head when you're still little... ...and your brain grows around it like a clubfoot."

"Requiring evidence that something exists before believing in it is a form of faith?"

Strongly disbelieving something without proof most certainly is.I am sure this will turn into another long song and dance and twisting of words but atheists have no more proof for what they disbelieve than what most believers do for what they do believe.Besides, you can't prove a negative.

What god(s) should people believe in and why? Is your lack of belief in Apollo a matter of faith? Can you prove that Apollo does not exist? If you cannot, is that a compelling reason to believe that such a being exists?

Kurmudgeon:I am sure this will turn into another long song and dance and twisting of words but atheists have no more proof for what they disbelieve than what most believers do for what they do believe.Besides, you can't prove a negative.

As far as I can tell, men more readily reject religion. Without fathers embracing the church, religion will die out. A while back I read that 2/3 of children attend church as adults if their fathers regularly attended throughout their childhood. Maternal attendance doesn't seem to matter. Maintain the separation of church and state and the country will gradually become less religious as a whole. However, people don't want to "come out" as atheists because they don't want to look like assholes. Let the losers be the assholes.

When a sitting president says Christians should not be considered citizens, maybe I'll give a sh*t about how mean atheists are being to Christians by using their first amendment rights. Until then... your religion is your business, stop trying to make it mine.

whidbey:Repo Man: KrispyKritter: It's fun to mock peoples personal beliefs. Live and let live is for pussies.

/ morans

The majority of Fark threads consist of mocking people for what they believe.

No just stupid Republicans and other annoying right-wing conservative types.

And anti vaxers, homeopaths, chem trail believers, birthers, 9/11 truthers. All of whom, in my opinion, deserve being treated derisively for believing in demonstrable nonsense . Should I care if my making fun of a birther makes him cling to his delusional belief even more tightly than before? As these sorts of people seem to be immune to reason, facts, and evidence, I really don't think so.