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In which case I AM disapointed, for as a rule your opinions, of late, show more insight.

Well, as a rule, your responses WERE getting more respectful.I simply stated that the reasons that people choose to use AOD vary and that there is not one "root" problem. I also suggested that we should not simply "blame the root" and forego personal accountability. I'm not quite sure what you're taking issue with; care to drop the "pompous ass" routine and clarify?

{C'mon ImL are you going to say that a controlled drug like Lithium compares to a home made version of speed that only THE MAKER knows what goes into it???]

Yup!

http://www.breggin.com/luvox.html

Eric Harris was taking Luvox (a Prozac-like drug) at the time of the Littleton murders

by Peter R. Breggin, M.D.

On April 29 the Washington Post confirmed that Eric Harris, the leader in the Littleton tragedy, was taking the psychiatric drug Luvox at the time of the murders. On April 30 the same newspaper published a story quoting expert claims that Luvox is safe and has no association with causing violence. In fact, Luvox and closely related drugs commonly produce manic psychoses, aggression, and other behavioral abnormalities in children and young people.

Luvox is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) that is approved for children and youth (up to age 17) for use in the treatment of obsessive compulsive disorder. However, doctors often give it for depression, since it is in the same SSRI class as Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil.

According to the manufacturer, Solvay, 4% of children and youth taking Luvox developed mania during short-term controlled clinical trials. Mania is a psychosis which can produce bizarre, grandiose, highly elaborated destructive plans, including mass murder. Interestingly, in a recent controlled clinical trial, Prozac produced mania in the same age group at a rate of 6%. These are very high rates for drug-induced mania--much higher than those produced in adults. Yet the risk will be even higher during long-term clinical use where medical supervision, as in the case of Harris, is much more lax than in controlled clinical trials. These drugs also produce irritability, aggression or hostility, alienation, agitation, and loss of empathy.

Reports suggest that Eric Harris may have had a relatively good family life. If so, it adds to the probability that he was suffering from a drug-induced manic reaction caused by Luvox. The phenomenon of drug-induced manic reactions caused by antidepressants is so widely recognized that it is discussed several times in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders of the American Psychiatric Association and many times in The Physicians' Desk Reference.

[Well, as a rule, your responses WERE getting more respectful.I simply stated that the reasons that people choose to use AOD vary and that there is not one "root" problem. I also suggested that we should not simply "blame the root" and forego personal accountability. I'm not quite sure what you're taking issue with; care to drop the "pompous ass" routine and clarify? ]

pompous ass nitty ya getz me hot when you calla me names that bit of foolishness on my part aside,

It is not asigning blame in getting to the drivers and motovations why any individual or group of individuals seek escape, as MG expanded on with his post.

as for personal accountability, it is a great concept and one I heartly endorse even though it presupposes a capability to do so and that is what I take issue with. i assume from reading your posts here and on other threads you have this capability, please allow me this one assumption and we can move on to the greater issue of accountability. accountability to me indicated after the fact action, when what may be more desirable i a proactive skill set preventing what in some is self destructive behaviours. Better? and make up?

Interesting article and as that one I don't doubt there are thousands like that about other controlled drugs and its long term harmful effects. However the street accesability factor of Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil vs Meth I still believe is quite in favour of Meth. ANYBODY can get meth...

Yes understood that one can accquire any sort of drug on the street, however meth is very popular amongst teens and adolescents these days and it seems to be the street drug of choice. Considering the quick effects and irreparable damage it is much more dangerous than prozac or lithium. It's not an addictive drug but it is very cheap to purchase and because the effects are not psyhcotropic in nature taken in small doses kids think that the damage is minimal. A lot of students use it to stay up during exam time.

Can you really compare Lithium to Meth? I've known people who've taken anti depressants, and my ex who took lithium for manic depression/bi-polar disorder. (Yes, he's my EX... :))Every week he would go to the doctor to get his blood levels checked to make sure he was on the right dosage. They (the doctors) start you our small and work your way up. If you ever get off lithium, you're weaned off as well. You can get poisoned by it, and that's why the blood levels are monitored. Monitored VERY closely. I can't say the same for meth. Not only that, but he was FULLY aware of what any side effects might be, dangers over a long period of time, signs that he might have been being poisoned, and anything else he might need to know so he could make a completely informed educated decision.

As far as the CIA making meth- that HAS to be true!! I beleive it!!! And as far as that goes, I know a BUTT load more CIA agents than I thought I did! And why are they locking them up for making that? I thought it was just Joe Blow Junkie that was locked up. They really should let out all those agents. I don't want to be paying for them with my tax dollars, when they shouldn't be there.

And YES!! Bush IS responsible for Menopause. He's also responsible for endangerd animals- it's his fault the Dodo is extinct. He causes cancer. He willed the Tsunami to happen- but most people already know that- I don't mean to state the obvious, here. He's the reason that when I was a kid, the neighbor left Antifreeze outside, and my cat drank it and died. Bush told him to do that- I just know it. He made it so that my homemade CDs don't play right in my car, and he's the reason I messed up at work todat. Thank GOD I'm alittle smarter than he is, I was able to fix it.

On a more serious note, I wanted to post some links as to what goes into making meth. Most of you reading this have ALL the chemicals needed right in your own house. Between the acetone for nail polish remover, sudafed for allergies, carburator cleaner for the motorheads, amonia for the housewives (also found in most glass cleaners) and who knows else what- we all could easily make it. Red phosphorus is a key ingredient. RP is used in the "strike" part in match books and in road flares. It HAS to be noted- no joking here- that cocaine is much cleaner, even with the cut, because you pretty well know what you're getting. I used to live in Oklahoma which seems to be the mecca for meth. You can smell people cooking it when you walk down the street. It costs so much to clean up these labs that toward the end of the fiscal year, they stop busting people because the state simply cannot afford to clean it up. Not to mention the people who pretend to be chemists, who blow their houses up. Also, the numbers are staggering for the vistims of meth, who don't even use it. Children of the addicts that are removed from their houses, and placed in an already over crowded foster care. Anyway, here are the links read for yourself. My personal view is that I won't have anything to do with anyone who even condones the use of it. I have lost TOO many friends to it. Seen such beautiful girls who turn into trailer trash looking girls in such a short time. It's devestating. These are just general links for you to view at your lesiure. Take some time and look around.

---On the dangers:http://www.kci.org/meth_info/links.htmhttp://www.valleymeth.com/http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8770112/site/newsweek (part of a special that they're doing)---Faces of Meth- before and after shots:http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/photos/gallery.ssf?cgi-bin/view_gallery.cgi/olive/view_gallery.ata?g_id=2927---On ingredients:http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_321865.htmlhttp://www.mappsd.org/Meth%20Mouth.htmhttp://www.mappsd.org/Meth%20Mouth.htm#Meth ingredients and methodhttp://www.mappsd.org/common_meth_ingredients.htm

^^I would highly discourage you from posting on here sites that offer recipes for making meth...no need to explain that, freedom of speech and all. (edit: my apologies I thought you were suggesting to post recipe links on how to make it)

It's not an addictive drug but it is very cheap to purchase and because the effects are not psychotropic in nature taken in small doses kids think that the damage is minimal.

A Couple of things ...

1. Crystal Meth: More addictive than heroin or cocaine, crystal meth is causing an epidemic across Canada. (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/darkcrystal/addiction.html)

2. Psychotropic Drug: A 'Psychoactive Drug' or 'Psychotropic Substance' is a chemical that alters brain function, resulting in temporary changes in perception, mood, consciousness, or behaviour. Such drugs are often used for recreational and spiritual purposes, as well as in medicine, especially for treating neurological and psychological illnesses. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotropic_drug)

Both Street & Psych Drugs are 'Psychotropic' and both 'Crystal Meth' and most Psych Drugs are "amphetamine" based, such as Ritalin, Adderall and Dexadrine.

Methylphenidate (Ritalin®) - Overview

1. Ritalin is a Schedule II stimulate, structurally and pharmacologically similar to amphetamines and cocaine and has the same dependency profile of cocaine and other stimulants.

Since 'Crystal Meth' trafficking Penalties are now on Par with 'Cocaine', their not too distant Psych Cousins may yet see the same fate bestowed upon them one Day. Hence all the Class-Action Lawsuits, Gov't Recalls and Investigations.

1. Crystal Meth: More addictive than heroin or cocaine, crystal meth is causing an epidemic across Canada. (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/darkcrystal/addiction.html)

2. Psychotropic Drug: A 'Psychoactive Drug' or 'Psychotropic Substance' is a chemical that alters brain function, resulting in temporary changes in perception, mood, consciousness, or behaviour. Such drugs are often used for recreational and spiritual purposes, as well as in medicine, especially for treating neurological and psychological illnesses. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotropic_drug)

According to a report in the newsmedical.net as of june of this year, meth in Canada was still considered a class 3 drug, cannibus being 2, heroine/cocaine 1 they are filing for a reclass of the drug (long over due in my opinion) but because it changes forms so frequently, much like ecstasy it is very hard to class.

according to the CBC it is more addictive than heroine and cocaine however it is important to note how the meth is being ingested. yes injecting and smoking it are highly addictive, most common use amongst teens is snorting it which is not as addictive as it is to ingest it directly into the blood stream. Snorting starst off as a psyhcological addiction which will turn into a full blown phsycial dependence over extended use

again, psychotropic in that it displays hallucenogenic properties...my mistake should have clarified that to read more specifially "hallucinogenic"

Tougher meth sentences not enough: addict Last Updated Aug 12 2005 09:00 AM CDTCBC News A Winnipegger who was hooked on crystal meth for years says tougher sentences on people who make and sell the drug won't solve the problem.

On Thursday, Ottawa announced maximum sentences will be increased from 10 years to life in prison, matching penalties for traffickers of heroin and cocaine.

FROM AUG. 11, 2005: Crystal meth makers now face life in prisonPhil Gross no longer uses meth, and now counsels other addicts.

"It's not so much locking the people up who are doing it," he said. "It's making the chemicals that produce the drug unavailable. Whoever makes it, they've got to stop making it available."

Justice Minister Gord Mackintosh is looking at measures already in place in some states in the U.S. that limit access to the raw materials.

"Everything is on the table in terms of putting in place restrictions on access to the key ingredient, psudoephedrine," said Mackintosh. "The cold remedies will very soon not be as accessible."

In North Dakota, cold medications that can be used to create crystal meth can only be bought one box at a time and in Oregon, people need a doctor's prescription to buy cold medications that contain ephedrine.

John Borody of the Addictions Foundation of Manitoba says getting rid of crystal meth is not that easy.

"The problem is there's numerous ways of making this drug. The cold medications, the cold remedies, are just one way," Borody said. "So, if they stop that and the people really want to make it, there are other ways of making it."

"The problem is there's numerous ways of making this drug. The cold medications, the cold remedies, are just one way," Borody said. "So, if they stop that and the people really want to make it, there are other ways of making it."

And that's the real problem. It's just too easy. You can't "make" cocaine or marijuana. Using pseudoephedrine is just easier. But when there's a will there's a way, and because meth is so highly addictive, there's ALOT of will.

It must be noted as well, that even if an addiction starts (or just is for that matter) a mental addiction- it can be just as bad. Look at people addicted to sex,, or gambling. There's no physical need, it's all in the addicts head, but can be totally destructive to the person's life. But making no mistake, meth is highly addictive.

I smoke cigarettes, and I've been told- I don't know if it's true- that nicotine can be harder to kick than heroin. That being said, I can't even begin to fathom how hard meth must be.

Well the post was in response to the sexual effects of meth and let's see if they are both THAT different in the end:

alcohol effects:

When you are alcohol-impaired, you are less likely to engage in “safe-sex,” increasing your risk of contracting STD's, including HIV. Perhaps most importantly, alcohol does not stimulate the libido. At blood levels between .05 and .10, alcohol retards sexual arousal, at levels above .10, orgasm is inhibited, and levels above .15 can cause temporary impotence.

Long-term Use (usually one or more years of heavy use)Heavy alcohol use by men reduces testosterone levels, causing breast enlargement, testicular shrinkage, and impotence. Among chronic female drinkers, alcohol may cause menstrual irregularities, infertility, and loss of sex drive.

For example, alcohol impairs memory by inhibiting the transfer and consolidation of information in long-term memory—so alcohol reduces our ability to remember information that we learned before going out for drinks.

Perhaps most importantly, your attention span is shorter for periods up to forty-eight hours after drinking

Even in small doses, alcohol inhibits REM and deep sleep—both are very important for restful sleep, memory consolidation, and emotional well being. When REM sleep is suppressed, you may also feel tired when we wake up.

In addition to cognitive impairments, consumption of alcohol and the resulting recovery period (i.e., hangover) wastes time that might be better spent studying or having fun. Have you ever tried to study or even watch TV with a hangover?

The bottom line—good time management, in both the academic and social realm will enhance your chances of success. Adulteration and even death of both brain cells and those cells that support brain cells by providing energy and nutrients.

Alcohol affects many parts of the brain, but the most vulnerable cells are those associated with memory, coordination, and judgment.

Long-term Use (one or more years of heavy use)

With long-term use alcohol may damage the connection between nerve cells and cause irreversible brain damage, including memory loss and personality changes.

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Immune System Alcohol use also impairs the functioning of the immune system—weakening the body’s ability to fight off infectious disease.

In the short-term, this will increase the number of colds you will experience.

With long-term use, alcohol can impede the functioning of immune cells, increasing your susceptibility to infectious diseases and cancer.

Gastrointestinal System

Short-term effects (up to 72 hours following heavy use) Alcohol blocks the absorption of essential nutrients and contributes to malnutrition among heavy drinkers.

Long-term use (one year or more of heavy use)Long-term use can cause ulcers of the stomach (gastric ulcers) and the first part of the intestine (duodenal ulcers).

Alcohol is a known carcinogen, which contributes to the development of cancers of the lip, oral cavity, esophagus, larynx, stomach, and liver.

Oh, please. If you drink too much water, or eat too much food, you can die. If you eat a cup of salt- you'll croak. The governemt doesn't "want" us to have alcohol. They just don't want us bootlegging it, so they amended the Constitution.

It never ceases to amaze me how little people choose to know about the effects of alcohol, considering we live in a society that consumes a LOT of alcohol. Please also read the number of deaths associate to drunk driving.

everyone has their poison of choice, some poison kills us quicker, some makes us psychotic. Some we can buy at a drug store, some we get from the local bar, other we have to hunt down "the guy"for it. In any case, the fact that you don't have an addictive predisposition may be your only saving grace.

What's your point? I know the statistics. How do you know what I do or not. FYI- I worked for M.A.D.D. for a long time. I get it. BTW- 86% of statistics are made up.

The meth "epidemic" is far worse than any other drug combined. Remember Crack in the late 80's/early 90's? Meth has spanked those stats. Not shedding light on the trouble that alcohol can cause, but ther really is a lesser of the two evils.