So afraid of "democrats" as to not care whether it is the aforementioned non-persons or "their" party which massively grows government.

That's it, of course. The number of $#@!s which the average GOPer gives about policy is exactly 0 (zero).

Their enthusiasm is limited to "beating" the "demoncrats" (which means continuing the same policies, under different leadership).

General election polls and primary races are two different things and a general popularity poll is a third.
I don't claim our task will be easy but it is possible if done right.
If you think so poorly of the Republican base why did you ask the question in the thread poll?

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

If he tries to run the same pathetic campaign, then no. If he wants to run like he did in Kentucky in 2010, then maybe. The problem is that the public remembers him from the recent flub in the primary,

“Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

For my part, the sole purpose of Rand running would be to kill Trumpism, lock it in a concrete box, and dump in an outhouse where it belongs. So long as the narrative is dominated by Hannity and related clowns spewing nationalist propaganda, nothing will or can improve. If the liberty movement isn't capable of winning elections anymore, so be it, then our last good service to humanity should be to end this abomination. Force people to call a spade a spade.

Hannity is no nationalist. He's a phony Israel Firster hitching his wagon to Trump. Even Trump is a faux nationalist in some respects.

“Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

I'm not seeing any evidence that the GOP has the liberal inclinations you claim.

I don't follow.

What does the GOP base, the Trump wing in particular, being absolutely useless have to do with whether or not Rand should run?

As I said some posts up, Rand won't win, but someone must make a stand and put something in the books for future generations to contemplate.

You asked about the Republican primary, if the Republican base is as hopeless as you claim Rand and his donors would be better off running 3rd party or trying for the Governorship in KY, attempting to run against Trump in the primary without any hope would only waste money and cost Rand the support of Trump fans for any other race, Rand must either take Trump's base away from him or abandon it and run 3rd party.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

Since the departure of relentless Trump promoter/Ron Paul trasher Bill O'Reilly, SnowBall is the most prominent Trump shill in the mainstream media.

He does nothing but stir up anti-immigrant and related nationalist sentiments.

If you are pleased with shift of the GOP toward nationalism, you really ought to send him a fruit basket.

I know he's a scumbag fake. He went after Ron with the newsletters. No nationalist would have done that.

“Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

Born at Briesen near Friesack in Brandenburg, to Major Friedrich von Bredow (1787-1878) and Bernhardine Sophie (née von Wulffen) (1792-1859), he joined the Garde-Husaren-Regiment in 1832 as Unteroffizier. By 1859, he had been given command of the 4th Dragoon Regiment. As a colonel, von Bredow led the 2nd Cavalry Brigade in the Austro-Prussian War of 1866, and was promoted to major general.[1] He is best known as a hero of the Franco-Prussian War after the Battle of Mars-la-Tour on August 16, 1870. During this battle he commanded the Prussian 12th Cavalry Brigade on one of the last successful massed cavalry charges in warfare. Before his assault von Bredow stated of that "it will cost what it will." "Von Bredow's Death Ride" resulted in massive casualties on the Prussian forces but he managed to defeat a French force that outnumbered them four to one.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

I suggest that you vote Trump and Trump and Trump, and stop bothering sentient beings.

I didn't vote for Trump and I will vote for Rand if he runs.
I suggest that you should keep better track of your positions when debating on a forum where your words are recorded and can be quoted back at you.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

I didn't vote for Trump and I will vote for Rand if he runs.
I suggest that you should keep better track of your positions when debating on a forum where your words are recorded and can be quoted back at you.

I suggest you find someone else's time to waste.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

Rand has a powerful voice as a Senator. He is being as effective as he can, and is much more impactful than the vast majority of Congress.

A Presidential run would be a waste, as he already has a platform to put out his message. An expensive and time consuming POTUS run would not help. Being a human piñata is probably not high on his list of priorities.

Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
“They are what they hate.” - B4L

The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

My gut instinct is Amash will run on the LP at some point though. Maybe Rand runs LP down the road.

Agree. There is always the future for Rand.

Amash would be much more interesting. He could significantly raise his profile, and add a new voice to the liberty message (for the majority of the people who have never heard of him). Also, it does seem that Amash has that ambition (a POTUS run).

Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
“They are what they hate.” - B4L

The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

Rand's been playing this game since summer 2016, whereby he praises a position candidate Trump took during the campaign (mind you: Trump took every position on every issue during the campaign), so as to cover himself for criticizing the actual conduct of Trump as President. For instance, he'll say that Trump's appointment of Bolton runs contrary to his non-interventionist comments as a candidate (feigning ignorance of Trump's long record of extremely interventionist positions, which Rand rightly attacked during the campaign: e.g. re Libya). So, given this tack which Rand has taken (not what I would have advised, but there's a certain logic to it), how might he change his tune re Trump without risking "flip-flopper" accusations?

Rand should ABSOLUTELY primary Trump!
.
.
.
But I'm not holding my breath that he will. Consider this factoid. What REALLY happened when Rand's ribs got broken? Everybody is talking about the "deep state." Well Trump with his face scanning camera executive order is part of the deep state.

"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul

Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

Originally Posted by osan

The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul

Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

Originally Posted by osan

The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

If DJT is able to be in a position to do another POTUS run in 2020 or 2024 and is not a convicted felon,
then Senator Rand Paul needs to take him on once again in the early primaries and caucuses, IMOHO.

If DJT is able to be in a position to do another POTUS run in 2020 or 2024 and is not a convicted felon,
then Senator Rand Paul needs to take him on once again in the early primaries and caucuses, IMOHO.

Unless Rand suddenly becomes an alpha male overnight, he should primary Trump. Then again, he won't be able to out alpha male Trump whose already convinced enough people in the country that hes better than any Democrat or Republican that replaces him so its kind of pointless.

"Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."