Kozy62

Now, considering our strength...if we wanted to win and just took over certain countries, we could have some effect. The "world" would hate us even more than they do now but we would actually have an effect.

Kozy62

But, things changed when it was decided that war should not be about winning or conquering...rather do as little as possible and hope for some type of stopping the enemy, whoever that happens to be...and then rebuild the country we just fought in. Wars used to be about winning, killing the enemy...and then taking the land and everything else. Those not killed were either slaves or scarred to death and ran.

We somehow picked up that we have to get involved if we feel another is being attacked and we like them or the region they are in...and we turn our backs on those we consider second class and a region we don't care about. It doesn't sound so good when you see it put in writing, does it?

Nope, I hate the killing, but there will be no peace, real peace, until Jesus returns...and no matter how much we do, how many of our young men and women are killed and wounded, we are really not helping much at all. It's sad but true.

GrantMingus

WatchDog

That could possibly be a good point Grant to how you and possibly our founders felt. Unfortunately, nobody in the rest of the world couldn't care less about our founders.

That message we used to send to the rest of the world. This is America. We are peace loving nation BUT, I love that BUT word...IF you make the mistake and mess with us, the gates of*****will unleash upon you!

GrantMingus

That's my whole point, when you're feared and not loved, you don't have any allies in the end. The Founders were very clear that they weren't interested in things like the UN, or being the policemen of the world, or becoming the world's only super power and using that position to threaten, intimidate and destroy your way to prosperity. It's amazing how they could see that possibility 250 years ago and most of us still can't today.

WatchDog

notSocialist and Patti, I agree with you two on this. I think the old days were a lot better because I dread the thought of what that next era could be...Us fearing them because in some sense we are inching in that direction. That is why so many Americans feared Obama's decision would start a WW3. Our economy could not handle a WW3.

And Grant, I'm not sure I agree completely what you said, without any allies and a WW3 broke out and everybody else was against America that would be a chilling thought. We would be toast. Obama just handled this poorly when it started over a year and went with the gusto of wanting to lob bombs on their heads because his feelings were bruised.

GrantMingus

This is exactly why being feared isn't a good thing. Exactly why the Founders favored trade with all nations and alliances with none. This is what it turns into, in the end you're standing alone with your pants down.

Kozy62

Obama isn’t stupid enough to say it, but I would guess that he is persisting in his threats of military action because U.S. credibility and, more precisely, his credibility is at stake. But playing the “U.S. credibility” card is a foolish & extremely dangerous game. In my lifetime, more lives, including American lives, have been lost in the pursuit of U.S. credibility than by any legitimate military factor. It was what led Johnson to double down in Vietnam, what helped propel Bush into pulling the trigger in Iraq & what led Obama deeper into Afghanistan. Make no mistake, Obama has already lost credibility in the world, given his performance the past few weeks & American credibility is not easily resurrected. It was resurrected by Reagan in the 80s, but Obama is no Reagan & the sad thing is that while losing all respect here at home, Obama has lost our international stature & now damaged his ability to get his way with the Chinese, the Iranians & even the Israe

WatchDog

"Obama has made such a mess out of this situation that he really had no choice...the bigger question is "what happens if the Russian proposal is a farce"?"

Obama has that covered. He will "Blame Bush". <grin>

Seriously, I am still skeptical about John Kerry. As soon as he stepped in to the picture this all exploded. I sometimes wonder if Obama is this destructive or if he is this incompetent? Maybe blinded by the people he has surrounded himself with. This president is definitely a problem child.

This whole country is living on the edge of our chairs with "with will happen next."