There has been something of a phoney war going on this week with Fernando Alonso mischievously tweeting a photo of himself having dinner with Red Bull’s Mark Webber in Dubai. In the light of the climate of antagonism between Webber and team mate Sebastian Vettel after the team orders debacle in Malaysia, the photo assumed a different significance and that was exacerbated when it was mysteriously taken down.

There is nothing unusual about them having dinner together; they do it regularly. However, both drivers are celebrating 200 Grands Prix and on Thursday and ahead of this weekend’s Bahrain Grand Prix, the BBC got Webber and Alonso to sit down together to talk through their shared experiences. Some of the chat was broadcast last night on BBC Radio 5 Live (listen Here) the whole chat will be shown during BBC TV’s Live Spanish Grand Prix coverage. There is some terrific banter, which shows how well the pair get along.

“What are your memories of your first race?” Webber asked.

“It was quite scary,” said Alonso. “I arrived at the first race and I hadn’t had any testing. I jumped in the car and I didn’t know all the buttons on the steering wheel, especially the neutral. I went down the pit lane and went down the gears, down, down looking for neutral, but I couldn’t find it! At the last moment I got it and missed hitting the car in front of me! That was a good start!”

Webber made his debut, also with Minardi, a year later and recalled, “I wasn’t comfortable in the car’ you’d been there, a short arse and so I had my knees on top of the chassis, the elbows in the side.”

“Was it strange making your debut in your home race,” interjected Alonso.

“It is strange yes,” said Webber, referring to the Australian GP 2002, where he finished fifth and scored points on debut. “Fortunately for you, you’ve won your home race. I was speaking to Jenson; he’s never won his home race, I’ve never won mine. I enjoy Melbourne, but I think I used up all my coins in that first race!”

“What was your favourite race?” Alonso asked.

“Probably one of the Monaco wins, the 2010 race, I think,” said Webber. “I was fortunate that you crashed in Practice 3, which helped me a bit, because you were quick, along with Robert (Kubica) and Seb. The win was between us. Yours?”

“Probably Malaysia 2012,” said Alonso. “It was completely unexpected. I started 9th and then the red flag. When you stop for an hour it’s really challenging for the drivers, to see how the grip has changed.”

Webber and Alonso have had some terrific battles over the years, not least their classic scrap at Spa in 2011, where Webber passed Alonso on the outside on the way into the Eau Rouge corner and you can sense the respect and cameraderie between them whenever you see them together, such as in the cool down room or off camera in the Unitateral TV studio after a race,

“We’ve had some really good times on the track (over their 200 races together),” said Webber. “There’s a few guys out there; you, Jenson, the racing can be really hard and fair and looking a bit more at the bigger picture.”

“It’s good to battle with someone you respect and the battle can be fair. I think we met in many starts at the first corner,” said Alonso. “The last three or four years we have been fighting for the first three or four positions.

“Some of the rookies that arrive in F1 with a GP2 mentality, it’s very risky,” said Alonso, possibly reflecting on last year’s Belgian GP start, where he was taken out by Romain Grosjean.

They also spoke about life after F1, Alonso said that he is interested in driving other cars because F1 is so restrictive in terms of testing bans and opportunities to have fun. They agreed that Fridays at Grands Prix do not satisfy them. Although they are compelled to drive in F1 by the challenge of racing at the highest level and competing against the best drivers in the world, they are conscious of there being more to life.

“We enjoy this category (of racing), but there are others and more fun cars to drive, ” said Alonso. There is a lot of pressure and the enjoyable moments are less and less. Sometimes we go in a kart and enjoy more.”

“There is life outside F1.”

You can read between the lines.

As my colleague Gary Anderson observed, in F1 you should keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

If the Dubai photo was designed to upset Vettel, he refused to take the bait,

“We all need dinner at some point and it’s quite boring to always have it on your own.”

It’s a classic piece of F1 gamesmanship by Alonso and Webber. Vettel accused the Australian of doing nothing to help him in their years as team mates. He knows now, if he had been in any doubt before, that his arch rival Alonso has an ally within his own camp.

* Look out for the full Alonso/Webber chat during BBC TV’s Live Spanish GP weekend.

Nothing new. Webber and Grosjean have been Alonso´s best firends in the F1 for a long time. Too bad the media just found out now. Webber and Alonso have been friends for 13 years!!! Briatore is Webber´s manager. Keep in mind last year Webber was in talks with Ferrari before he decided to stay in RB. I´m not surprise at all about that picture

I don’t understand how the media have made such a big ‘thing’ about this. How and why would this bother VET? Regardless of his battle with WEB, why would VET care who WEB has dinner with? This assumes that VET is incredibly childish – I don’t buy it.

The news is to undermine Vettel saying everyone’s friends apart from you, its like Alonso playing mind games with Seb, he’s been doing that for years but it hasn’t worked so far has it? Everything Alonso’s been saying in the past few years to get under Vettel’s skin has backfired and will contiune to just give Seb extra motivation to beat these overrated drivers.

To win a championship with support of your team mate is impressive, but not as impresive as winning a championship without support of your team mate.

But where does winning a championship while your team mate has tried to trip you up rate? I’m thinking to the Brazi 2012, Silverstone 2011, Turkey, “not bad for #2″ comments, this Sepang mess, etc. etc.

Who has had to overcome such internal additional layer of crap coming within the team from the #2 garage? Senna/Prost perhaps, but Webber isn’t exactly one of those two – you need a WDC to be in that comparison.

So again, what Champion has had to in history of F1 put up with the BS Vettel has to put up with? What 3X WDC has had his authority and #1 status questioned by his non WDC #2?

Hey Wayne, I just want to be clear. You’re very much pro #1 and #2 status, and you support driving for the team. You wished Lewis had #1 status on a number of occasions.

Seeing as Vettel is a 3XWDC and clearly #1 at RBR, and perhaps because of Webber’s previous behaviour around Vettel and vice versa they issued the order only to avoid a DNF, but really wanted the reverse result with Vettel P1…

Where do you stand on the fact that Webber refuses to accept his designated #2 role against team wishes? Isn’t that going against the team? He clearly knows he’s #2, he keeps saying it in the media. He knows RBR have him there as a #2. Why doesn’t he do as the team wishes of any #2 drive? If he’s such a team player, first question in his mind should be…what would a team want a #2 to do?

Indeed, you didn’t, but you are very supportive of #1/#2. I’m not against it myself by the way. I think it is a way to success, althought not always. And I must admit, I do enjoy those #2s causing a bit of chaos for entertainment value and to put some pressure on the #1s. I also don’t like it when the #2 thing goes too far, as if he’s not an F1 pilot but a floor matt…leaves a bad taste if you know what I mean.

But back to Webber…I believe you may not be correct. I think Marko has come out saying it regarding consistancy. There is the fact that Vettel is 3XWDC. More imprtantly you need to look to the 2010 season and their lack of desire to back Webber.

Do you honestly believe Webber thinks he’s equal with Vettel on that team? Sure, RBR have not broken seals on Webbers car, or asked him to give up P1 like Ferrari do of Massa. Let’s not focus on what RBR say or not say. Let’s focus on actions. Plus, Mark knows he’s #2…he’s said as much. So why create actions that create such internal turbulance? As if to get “in the way” for lack of a better choice of words.

You’re right, Sebee, WEB does not think he is equal in that team. That’s the reality of the situation but as long as Horner does not designate WEB as the number two driver, WEB can’t be accused of disobeying the team’s wishes race by race.

In the absence of an official designation you can’t expect a F1 driver to take it upon himself to roll over and promote his team mate to number one status.

The fault in this, one way or another, lies with the team’s weak management. They are either weak because they will not come out and say WEB is number two or they are weak because they cannot control VET – I don’t know which but it’s not WEB or VET’s fault either way in that sense.

The media hadn’t “just found out now”, it’s been known for a long time. This article came about because of a dinner and the interview, and to coincide this with the recent happenings between Vettel and Webber, all this makes the whole RBR situation more interesting. That’s the whole point.

I don´t understand why this is news. If Webber is having dinner with Kate Middleton I can see that is newsworthy. But Webber having dinner with Alonso it is something Alonso mentioned in his twitter. I don´t think Webber is a Ferrari mole nor I believe RB and Vettel would care. Drivers don´t get points for having dinner.

You´re right. They were celebrating 200 Grand Prix. But the media decided to make a big deal about a picture. The important thing is their memories and their plans for their future.

Today Hamilton in his BBC column said a lot of very nice things about Alonso. I must admite it was a suprise for me. That doesn´t mean Hamilton wants to upset other drivers nor I think he is playing mindgames or something

Sebastian does not crumble to the hunger for food like mark. He is more focused and able to handle the pressure of not eating dinner. He may one day succumb to the lure of lunch – as all drivers wish to – but for now he is happy sat at my Death Star with no friends. Ja.

“It’s a classic piece of F1 gamesmanship by Alonso and Webber. Vettel accused the Australian of doing nothing to help him in their years as team mates. He knows now, if he had been in any doubt before, that his arch rival Alonso has an ally within his own camp.”

This observations makes me think that RBR won’t have the same driver pairing next year, unless Mark’s friendship with Mateschitz saves the seat for him. However I rather doubt it, for millions saw Webber’s attitude towards Vettel live on TV at the start of the Brazilian GP when Vettel and RBR were fighting for the DWC against Alonso. I predict that Lotus will have a tough fight on their hands if they want to keep Kimi. As for Webber, I guess Felipe’s seat is in jeopardy.

Yes. This is true while you have a car that is ONE SECOND FASTER and your team mate (with the same car???) is not allowed to race against you. Under these conditions you don’t need mind games for sure, but now that his main rival (ALO) has a car as good as his, he seem to be in desperate mode. With Ferrari and RBR with almost the same performance level, Alonso will extract that extra 0.3s per lap. Easy.

I don’t sense any desperation from Vettel. I think they (Vettel/RBR) are just trying to maximize the points they can get any race weekend, and trusting in Newey to eventually find a trick, just like last year, that will unlock serious performance in the car, with which to rattle off a string of good results.

Maybe when he’s trailing by 40 pts like last year, with no turnaround in sight, then he’ll get desperate. At the moment, he’s top of the pile.

Mark Webber helps Vettel by taking points off His Rivals.
this is for all with short memories.
Silverstone 2012 webber overtakes Alonso in final laps to take Chequered Flag and 25 points
Alonso misses out and takes 18 points.Deficit is 7 points
fast forward. Vettel wins 2012 WDC by how many?
yes folks 3 points only. Vettel then says mark has never helped the Team? ignorance is Bliss!

People will always see what they want to see unfortunatly.. Mark has a good heart and he knows whats best for the team. Dont forget both RB drivers get paid according to their finish possition. A win = a bit over a million dollars so why wouldnt you try your best. Mark is only 20 points behind so im sure he will bounce back. Go Mark!

I wonder if the tab was paid by a Ferrari credit card.
Regardless it’s good to see fierce track rivalry doesn’t mean you can’t have a drink together and clearly the guys have joined F1 around the same time and still ete after 13 years is a feat in itself !
Same for Vettel Raikkonen- though I can’t imagine what these 2 have in common. Seb likes Kimi cause “he’s an honest straightforward guy” – I wonder if the same can be said about Seb.
All we need now is a picture on twitter of Seb and the Iceman getting smashed in a bar with several fine ladies around -with a caption reading “that’s how it is done pops “

I don’t see Australian men such as Alan Jones, or Jack Brabham playing at these children’s games.

As talented as Mark Webber is I don’t see why he bothers playing second fiddle to Alonso in these mind games. Mark should be his own man and take the championship by the scruff of the neck. Now is the time!

Cannot wait for this as unfortunately missed it last night. Like you say, the politics behind the message are brilliant, although how interesting that they continually refer to Jenson. Great reporting!

Jenson is part of that little gang of experienced 30-something drivers who are quite respectful of each other. I remember in 2009 mark and Fernando both defended Jenson winning the WDC against others, saying he was the rightful champion. I think alonso could have almost handled losing to webber in 2010. I don’t think any of these 3 really rate Sebastian.

Cool friendship between Alonso and Webber, this reminds me of the kind of friendship that exists between classmates that enroll into school at roughly the same time. So yes, I can see these two doing some more racing together in another motorsport series >>> probably as teammates too.

Concerning the Dubai photo, one can only imagine Webber has been pouring his heart out to Alonso in relation to the recent dealings at Red Bull and hence why it got deleted.

But Vettel shouldn’t worry too much about this partnership for whenever you’re universally loved in F1/sport that’s when you will know you’re aren’t a threat to any one.

As for the statement by Alonso that there’s life outside of F1 >>> I believe this is just a case of Alonso not knowing what he has got till it is gone.

Maybe he should have a word with Schumi or Kimi or Heikki or Jacques etc

James,
really nice piece about friendship in F1. This has brought a question to my mind and I don’t know if it would be possible, to read an article about friendship in F1.

We know that Vettel and Raikkonen are good friends, and also that Sutil is not a very good friend of Hamilton after China. However we all read support from some drivers to Glock after announcing that he wouldn’t continue and also a picture of a dinner with all the pilots in Abu Dhabi (I think).

I know that some people would get along better than other, and also that all of them think first of themselves when they are on the track, but as Kimi said (not an actual quote), it’s different once you are outside of the car.

First time I’ve listened to the podcast, and it won’t be the last, excellent listening. Recommend clicking on that link above.
The webber/alonso piece was superb, great to hear the drivers sounding more relaxed and a bit less ‘ PR speak ish ‘ than we normally get. Be great to have more of these.

I don’t see what the big deal is really. 2 guys that have known each other for many years have a feed together.
What I do find funny is Webber saying (last year?) when asked about his relationship with Fernando. He responded something like “it’s not we’ve ever had a meal together or anything”
I get the Jenson references too. He’s as close to cool as these guys, he’s done a zillion GP’s and he’s a pretty decent bloke. BTW, Jenson took the photo

“It’s a classic piece of F1 gamesmanship by Alonso and Webber. Vettel accused the Australian of doing nothing to help him in their years as team mates. He knows now, if he had been in any doubt before, that his arch rival Alonso has an ally within his own camp.”

Vettel is smart, but not smart enough to keep his teammate on his side. Yes, he can win races on his own, but with a person from the same camp helping another driver, it’ll do more harm to him than necessary.

This year definitely will have a few races where Webber shoves Vettel aside and make way for Alonso. If this is to be his last year in F1 then there’s less for him to concern about in doing so.

I dont believe anybody at Red Bull would care if Alonso and Webber would share a room together. That the so called “sport journalists” have to tell Vettel of this dinner, no doubt arranged by Briatore, to get a response is all you need to know. If sites like yours wouldnt make a mountain out of a molehill this would be a complete nonevent. In fact it is !

This is an interesting article with a human angle to it. It will be read by many and enjoyed. In case you hadnt noticed – this is a forum for people who are passionate about F1. I for one am very interested to read about drivers’ interests and friendships.

Jopurnalists will always try to get an interesting angle on every story. If the facts were reported as simply facts then this forum wouldnt exist and you wouldn’t have been able to comment….

It initially seems intended to “blame” Alonso and/or Webber for misbehaviour in posting the picture (still posted) and their race attitude towards each other and, later on, it explains the reasons for such dinner, their mutual respect and hints occasions in which they’ve raced like badasses.

I guess it would have been more effective, in terms of mind games, if the picture was “leaked”, instead of openly posted and commented.

Oh, I’d like to remark Vettel’s response to the picture: “Were they naked?”
(That can be consider either mischief or a rather peculiar personal etiquette while dinning with friends)

Alonso: oh, but how is that? It was me who ended the domination of one of them and I’ll take care of the other one soon – you know, unlike me, they are really not so good without the really really dominant car..

Love Alonso because he is a true pro.
Love Mark W,more, he is a true blue and
my mate.
And I thank you Mr Allan for puting picture
and the chat between two friends having a
dinner on your site, simply memorable.
It shows why your site is the best in the
business by displying the lighter side of a
bear pit.
Thank you again and keep it up.

Interesting comments from them both about life outside F1 – I did wonder whether either driver would move into other categories such as sportscars or the DTM/WTCC after they finish with F1, and while Webber looked more likely out of the two (perhaps soon if the Porsche rumours are accurate…) I wasn’t sure about Alonso. Also interesting that they talked about the enjoyment from F1 becoming less and less – perhaps Alonso’s comments about finishing his career with Ferrari were a hint that 2016 might be his last season if this trend continues. Reading between the lines to a huge degree, admittedly, but it makes me wonder at least. Especially with the WEC making its mark nowadays.

I think he managed to connect with the right people i.e. Flavio Briatore and was been able to step into F1. Then if you’re good enough, you’ll survive there.

Now, Webber is an experienced driver, he has valuable knowledge of how different teams work and more capable of aiding in car development. RB will be wise not to upset him as he could giveaway RB secrets to opponents.

I see it as more than who’s eating with who, but about the characters of these drivers. Vettel while a great driver does not care nor shown to have any interest in building relationships with his peers. This helps justify his ambitions and ruthlessness and in my opinion makes him less of a complete sportsman than others. The fact that Webber and Alonso have been known to be good friends for years tells me a top tier driver like Alonso/Webber can be both inspiring on(skills) and off(relational) the track. To be the best you do not need to in paranoid and hostile with your peers, on or off the track.

No, Vettel has friends, too, e.g. Kimi Raikkonen. There was a great interview with both of them on German TV. Kimi was actually talking on his own free will, revealing whether he was the black or brown Gorrila on a party snapshot, a question which was bothering some people in the paddock for quite some time, apparently.

He also gets/got on well with the other German drivers, especially Timo Glock who is from the same region.

I guess it is pretty normal to have friends in the industry you are working in, and they do not tend to be the people that are competing for the same position in a company.

Sometimes even this happens, but then this friendship goes a long way back, or there is no direct competition because one person is the “planned” successor of the other, e. g. a Schumacher / Massa situation compared to Schumacher / Barichello.

Apart from that, this picture actually weakens Webber, giving fresh fuel to all those who want to believe that, may the situation arise, he is more likely to help Alsonso than his own teammate and, therefore, in the end, his own team.

An own goal for both, if you ask me, that is probably why it has been removed.

When Webber jumped into his car seat after Alonso he forgot to punch the number 2 button for the comfort settings. If head the seat would have pushed back, lowered a bit, the pedals retretreated to the nose, the mirrors adjusted, climate control moved to 71 degrees (f), and the radio would have been changed to the pre-set “team orders” 103.3 FM where we promise you won’t have to race your teammate like a man.

2: Seb shot back and most have missed with his “eat alone all the time” quip. I guess he wishes Mark happiness.

Seriously I don’t see this as a problem at all. There is nothing here that even I didn’t know.

James, how long till Webber stops seeing development parts and so on, especially plans for next years car? Assuming he’s possibly on the outer and red bull won’t want him taking their secrets to another team?

I’d be surprised if that happens with a WCC to win. If he’s going to a rival team next year they might keep him in the dark, but they will always want the car to be as fat as possible because points mean prizemoney

Alonso doesn’t need to play mind games with Vettel and he did it because he never had a car advantage, he had to find something else. I am absolutely certain that if ferrari will be on par with red bull in qualifying and races, Alonso will take the title and not vettel and hewill not need any help. He just needs a car.

Alonso is drumming up allies with Webber and Hamilton. All these efforts to rattle Vettel’s crown. ha ha…

Judging from the quali and practice session in Bahrain. I think Alonso has got the gear to win his first WDC for Ferrari.

That said, Vettel should never be ruled out. He is not only the pole king but also the comeback king! The 2010 and 2012 season both went down to the wire and he was triumphant in both occasions. Vettel 2; Alonso 0.