Having been away from this board for 6 wonderful days spent in the field with my dogs and the person most dear to me, it is a bit sad, thou not unexpected, to read many of the posts following the election.

Many on this board will never evolve past being AWM, and that saddens me. In part because it proves that the issues that are most pressing for the country continue to take a back seat to the rage this group feels over issues that have little to no bearing on themselves. They would rather focus on the RNC hot button talking points than look at our real problems and work together to find a solution. They find it easier to quote sound bites than research articles and form a fact based, rational opinion. They would rather consider Fox and Rush as fact based reports than look into many different sources and come to a well researched conclusion. They would rather blame than look for common ground to find solutions.

We did not get into this situation alone, and we cannot get out of it without EVERYONE looking for common ground and building from there. Give the BS retoric a rest.

Gay marrage will not diminish the instituion of marrage unless you let it.

Abortion and the decisions around it affect only that person(s) and their God. Unless that is you, you have no dog in that fight

Voter ID can be sensably done and thus continue to allow all Americans the right to vote

The budget cannot be balanced unless earmarks and programs are overhauled and a fair and balanced tax system is in place, with everyone paying a fair share.

PACS must be eliminated or controled and lobbyists banned from contact with elected officials. They work for the people not Wallstreet

All of the Constituional Amendments are sacred and all must be upheld. No one should think of using the Constitution to resrict any persons rights or liberties.

Illegal immigation has got to be addressed in a way that can be enforced.

Thoughtful discussion and hard work is what is needed now, not the same old BS. And if the AWM cannot get on board, the country will continue to suffer. We are looked at as the great experiment. How about we resume showing the world that it works, and not continue our slow spiral down the drain.

Hopeful White Male Regards

JS

11-11-2012, 03:04 PM

What novel ideas!!! Somehow I don't think it's gonna fly. :(

JS

BonMallari

11-11-2012, 04:00 PM

Having been away from this board for 6 wonderful days spent in the field with my dogs and the person most dear to me, it is a bit sad, thou not unexpected, to read many of the posts following the election.

Many on this board will never evolve past being AWM, and that saddens me. In part because it proves that the issues that are most pressing for the country continue to take a back seat to the rage this group feels over issues that have little to no bearing on themselves. They would rather focus on the RNC hot button talking points than look at our real problems and work together to find a solution. They find it easier to quote sound bites than research articles and form a fact based, rational opinion. They would rather consider Fox and Rush as fact based reports than look into many different sources and come to a well researched conclusion. They would rather blame than look for common ground to find solutions.

We did not get into this situation alone, and we cannot get out of it without EVERYONE looking for common ground and building from there. Give the BS retoric a rest.

Gay marrage will not diminish the instituion of marrage unless you let it.

Abortion and the decisions around it affect only that person(s) and their God. Unless that is you, you have no dog in that fight

Voter ID can be sensably done and thus continue to allow all Americans the right to vote

The budget cannot be balanced unless earmarks and programs are overhauled and a fair and balanced tax system is in place, with everyone paying a fair share.

PACS must be eliminated or controled and lobbyists banned from contact with elected officials. They work for the people not Wallstreet

All of the Constituional Amendments are sacred and all must be upheld. No one should think of using the Constitution to resrict any persons rights or liberties.

Illegal immigation has got to be addressed in a way that can be enforced.

Thoughtful discussion and hard work is what is needed now, not the same old BS. And if the AWM cannot get on board, the country will continue to suffer. We are looked at as the great experiment. How about we resume showing the world that it works, and not continue our slow spiral down the drain.

Hopeful White Male Regards

I used to think that way until I became a father and we faced the decision on whether to have our son vs the alternative...I do think that there a lot of people with "no skin invested" making decisions for others...but I also believe that someone has to speak up for the unborn child...

other than that I think your list is good, but dont paint those of us that listen to Rush and watch Fox with the same brush...Rush is entertainment,if you look at him for more than that you need to get a life...I can write volumes on what I dislike about Fox, starting with their over saturated coverage of a single subject, and in their quest to be fair and balanced, the contributors that present the opposing side only go to fan the flames....

AAM regards

huntinman

11-11-2012, 04:19 PM

I find it amusing that liberals think they have all the answers for what republicans/conservatives "need" to do. Are you libs telling me that you really hope that we will listen to your brilliant ideas and that somehow we will use those brilliant ideas to make a comeback? Right... If the opposing party is telling me what I need to do, thanks but I think I would prefer to find my own way as to leave it in your hands...

murral stark

11-11-2012, 04:46 PM

I find it amusing that liberals think they have all the answers for what republicans/conservatives "need" to do. Are you libs telling me that you really hope that we will listen to your brilliant ideas and that somehow we will use those brilliant ideas to make a comeback? Right... If the opposing party is telling me what I need to do, thanks but I think I would prefer to find my own way as to leave it in your hands...

You just validated every one of his points. You are angry and in no way, shape or form are you willing to work as a team to find resolutions that is best for everybody. Take your blinders off and lose the tunnel vision and you might be able to find some happiness in life instead of focusing on gloom and doom.

MooseGooser

11-11-2012, 04:53 PM

You just validated every one of his points. You are angry and in no way, shape or form are you willing to work as a team to find resolutions that is best for everybody. Take your blinders off and lose the tunnel vision and you might be able to find some happiness in life instead of focusing on gloom and doom.

So tell me Mr Stark,, What Has changed that gives you so much Optimisum??
The Political arena is basically the same as it was before the election.

Are you satified with the last 4 years?

Seriously What are you celebrating???

Gooser

M&K's Retrievers

11-11-2012, 05:02 PM

Having been away from this board for 6 wonderful days spent in the field with my dogs and the person most dear to me, it is a bit sad, thou not unexpected, to read many of the posts following the election.

Many on this board will never evolve past being AWM, and that saddens me. In part because it proves that the issues that are most pressing for the country continue to take a back seat to the rage this group feels over issues that have little to no bearing on themselves. They would rather focus on the RNC hot button talking points than look at our real problems and work together to find a solution. They find it easier to quote sound bites than research articles and form a fact based, rational opinion. They would rather consider Fox and Rush as fact based reports than look into many different sources and come to a well researched conclusion. They would rather blame than look for common ground to find solutions.

We did not get into this situation alone, and we cannot get out of it without EVERYONE looking for common ground and building from there. Give the BS retoric a rest.

Gay marrage will not diminish the instituion of marrage unless you let it.

Abortion and the decisions around it affect only that person(s) and their God. Unless that is you, you have no dog in that fight

Voter ID can be sensably done and thus continue to allow all Americans the right to vote

The budget cannot be balanced unless earmarks and programs are overhauled and a fair and balanced tax system is in place, with everyone paying a fair share.

PACS must be eliminated or controled and lobbyists banned from contact with elected officials. They work for the people not Wallstreet

All of the Constituional Amendments are sacred and all must be upheld. No one should think of using the Constitution to resrict any persons rights or liberties.

Illegal immigation has got to be addressed in a way that can be enforced.

Thoughtful discussion and hard work is what is needed now, not the same old BS. And if the AWM cannot get on board, the country will continue to suffer. We are looked at as the great experiment. How about we resume showing the world that it works, and not continue our slow spiral down the drain.

Hopeful White Male Regards

Not a bad list. How about adding that no one can vote in an election until 3 years after they received their last form of welfare IE food stamps, public housing, medicaid, Obamaphones, etc. Our current system of allowing politicians to buy votes by allowing those on the public dole to vote is outrageous.

Let the bleeding hearts begin...

murral stark

11-11-2012, 05:04 PM

So tell me Mr Stark,, What Has changed that gives you so much Optimisum??
The Political arena is basically the same as it was before the election.

Are you satified with the last 4 years?

Seriously What are you celebrating???

Gooser

I am not celebrating anything. I am optimistic that I have a good job, good friends and family. I am one of the few that can and does say that I am better off now than 4 years ago. Sometimes I get dragged into the negativity, but I TRY to find something positive in every situation I encounter. I refuse to sit and dwell on all of the negative things in life. I just try to stay positive. some people are so focused on the negative that I can't imagine them enjoying anything.

murral stark

11-11-2012, 05:25 PM

Not a bad list. How about adding that no one can vote in an election until 3 years after they received their last form of welfare IE food stamps, public housing, medicaid, Obamaphones, etc. Our current system of allowing politicians to buy votes by allowing those on the public dole to vote is outrageous.

Let the bleeding hearts begin...

Buying votes doesn't work. Look at the money spent by the "Conservatives" to buy the election. If both sides would've taken all that money they wasted trying to get elected, and put it toward the deficit, that would be a pretty good start. So much for "Conservative" spending. the right made the left look like penny pinchers. LOL

Your suggestion about the welfare, food stamps, etc., is nothing more than "Voter Suppression"

HPL

11-11-2012, 05:25 PM

Having been away from this board for 6 wonderful days spent in the field with my dogs and the person most dear to me, it is a bit sad, thou not unexpected, to read many of the posts following the election.

Many on this board will never evolve past being AWM, and that saddens me. In part because it proves that the issues that are most pressing for the country continue to take a back seat to the rage this group feels over issues that have little to no bearing on themselves. They would rather focus on the RNC hot button talking points than look at our real problems and work together to find a solution. They find it easier to quote sound bites than research articles and form a fact based, rational opinion. They would rather consider Fox and Rush as fact based reports than look into many different sources and come to a well researched conclusion. They would rather blame than look for common ground to find solutions.

We did not get into this situation alone, and we cannot get out of it without EVERYONE looking for common ground and building from there. Give the BS retoric a rest.

Gay marrage will not diminish the instituion of marrage unless you let it.

Abortion and the decisions around it affect only that person(s) and their God. Unless that is you, you have no dog in that fight

Voter ID can be sensably done and thus continue to allow all Americans the right to vote

The budget cannot be balanced unless earmarks and programs are overhauled and a fair and balanced tax system is in place, with everyone paying a fair share.

PACS must be eliminated or controled and lobbyists banned from contact with elected officials. They work for the people not Wallstreet

All of the Constituional Amendments are sacred and all must be upheld. No one should think of using the Constitution to resrict any persons rights or liberties.

Illegal immigation has got to be addressed in a way that can be enforced.

Thoughtful discussion and hard work is what is needed now, not the same old BS. And if the AWM cannot get on board, the country will continue to suffer. We are looked at as the great experiment. How about we resume showing the world that it works, and not continue our slow spiral down the drain.

Hopeful White Male Regards

I think I would agree, at least in principle, with your post. I would, however, say that the "fair" part of your comment on taxation is at least one point where things tend to break down. I am not sure that just because someone makes a lot of money, that money should be taxed at a higher rate than someone who earns less. Are the approximately 50% of the folks who pay NO income taxes paying their "fair share"? Should people who live off the largess of their fellow citizens have to perform some form of labor in order to obtain those benefits? (Something like the CCC, pick up trash along the highway, work on national park facilities, restore govt housing, etc.) (I'm not talking about the money we are really "entitled" to like social security). Should those folks have to submit to drug testing to get their benefits? I think that if the Dems would actually tie some entitlement conditions to tax increases, the republicans might see that as the spirit of cooperation, for instance.

It is a continuing shame that social issues like gay marriage and class warfare distract our once (and possibly still) great nation from the real issues like fiscal responsibility and individual freedom.

murral stark

11-11-2012, 05:31 PM

I think I would agree, at least in principle, with your post. I would, however, say that the "fair" part of your comment on taxation is at least one point where things tend to break down. I am not sure that just because someone makes a lot of money, that money should be taxed at a higher rate than someone who earns less. Are the approximately 50% of the folks who pay NO income taxes paying their "fair share"? Should people who live off the largess of their fellow citizens have to perform some form of labor in order to obtain those benefits? (Something like the CCC, pick up trash along the highway, work on national park facilities, restore govt housing, etc.) (I'm not talking about the money we are really "entitled" to like social security). Should those folks have to submit to drug testing to get their benefits? I think that if the Dems would actually tie some entitlement conditions to tax increases, the republicans might see that as the spirit of cooperation, for instance.
I think that there should be mandatory work to receive the benefits. If they are not willing to look for a job, then they should be forced to do community service to earn those checks.

BonMallari

11-11-2012, 05:33 PM

Buying votes doesn't work. Look at the money spent by the "Conservatives" to buy the election. If both sides would've taken all that money they wasted trying to get elected, and put it toward the deficit, that would be a pretty good start. So much for "Conservative" spending. the right made the left look like penny pinchers. LOL

Your suggestion about the welfare, food stamps, etc., is nothing more than "Voter Suppression"

wait a minute ? did the Dems get all the ads done for free? BOTH SIDES wasted a ton of money

murral stark

11-11-2012, 05:37 PM

wait a minute ? did the Dems get all the ads done for free? BOTH SIDES wasted a ton of money
The Dems spent an obscene amount of money too. I was merely stating that both sides could've taken that money and put it toward the deficit, instead of trying to "buy" the election and sling mud, it could have done some good. Instead, all it did was further polarize this country. I am afraid that soon we will see "civil war" in this country again. Hopefully I am wrong.

BonMallari

11-11-2012, 05:52 PM

The Dems spent an obscene amount of money too. I was merely stating that both sides could've taken that money and put it toward the deficit, instead of trying to "buy" the election and sling mud, it could have done some good. Instead, all it did was further polarize this country. I am afraid that soon we will see "civil war" in this country again. Hopefully I am wrong.

unfortunately the embers of a "civil type war" have been smoldering for some time,if it were to happen it would be more of a have vs have nots or the OWS type crowd being brazen or empowered into thinking that they cant take what isnt rightfully theirs...Class warfare has already started...

the situation is the northeast NY/NJ is ripe for all heck breaking loose especially when people are all vying for heat,food,water,gas and shelter...wondering where all those FEMA trailers are at, just to give people a roof over their heads

MooseGooser

11-11-2012, 06:11 PM

I am not celebrating anything. I am optimistic that I have a good job, good friends and family. I am one of the few that can and does say that I am better off now than 4 years ago. Sometimes I get dragged into the negativity, but I TRY to find something positive in every situation I encounter. I refuse to sit and dwell on all of the negative things in life. I just try to stay positive. some people are so focused on the negative that I can't imagine them enjoying anything.

So,, you see,,YOU are ONE of the FEW that some of the past happenings hasnt effected , But in reality it has!!
Down the road it definitely will, because of the debt this nation is accumulating..

Right now,, as far as YOU and YOUR personal situation is concerned its not a problem... BUT,, What about the folks who it has impacted??

I don’t know your situation,, but if you are like MOST of US,, you prolly work for one a them evil RICH guys.
If you look at history of other economies and countries,, if their system of government becomes so oppressive with regulation and taxation that it inhibits entrepreneurialism,, those entrepreneurs go elsewhere,, and YOU my friend are out of a job.,, and your COUNTRY is up the proverbial shit creek,, cause THEY (Entrpreneurs) pay for almost ALL the taxes, that pay for all the entitlements that those who WONT work get..

All of the above is meaningless, UNLESS of course,, you are one of the soulless that works for Government,, and you will sell your soul,, just to protect you cowardly hide, and your cushy job with huge benefits,, AGAIN that the evil RICH guy is payin for..

Mr Stark,, YOU are like the MANY,, that as long as it doesn’t affect YOU directly,, then the rest of US,,, that it HAS effected,,, are having a bad case of tunnel vision and looking through blinders...

YOU are the one that needs to open your eyes and look around..
Its Not about YOU!!! per sea.

JMHDAO

Againn... What specifically has happened with the Past election , that has you so optimistic,FOR THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY?

M&K's Retrievers

11-11-2012, 06:16 PM

Buying votes doesn't work.It just did in part. Do you think that any welfare recipient who voted voted for Romney? Look at the money spent by the "Conservatives" to buy the election.Both parties spent stupid amounts of money on the campaign but the GOP did not buy votes by giving freebies to anyone. If both sides would've taken all that money they wasted trying to get elected, and put it toward the deficit, that would be a pretty good start. So much for "Conservative" spending. the right made the left look like penny pinchers. LOL

Your suggestion about the welfare, food stamps, etc., is nothing more than "Voter Suppression"[

My comments in red above.

It's not voter suppression. If an individual cannot help support the country and live off those that do, they should not have a say in how the country is run. You and I are stockholders in this country and have a say in how it's run. Those on welfare are employees of this country getting paid a salary in the form of benefits for which they nothing in return and as such should have no say in how the company is run.

Pretty simple really.

alynn

11-11-2012, 06:22 PM

Not a bad list. How about adding that no one can vote in an election until 3 years after they received their last form of welfare IE food stamps, public housing, medicaid, Obamaphones, etc. Our current system of allowing politicians to buy votes by allowing those on the public dole to vote is outrageous.

Let the bleeding hearts begin...

You left out the biggest categories of recipients of government aid -- Medicare and social security. If aid is defined as folks getting more than they put into the system, then I guess those folks can't vote either. Have a good time with that.

MooseGooser

11-11-2012, 06:23 PM

To the O.P.

What does Skin color have to do with any of this???

Gooser

Golddogs

11-11-2012, 06:26 PM

I think I would agree, at least in principle, with your post. I would, however, say that the "fair" part of your comment on taxation is at least one point where things tend to break down. I would define "Fair share" as no special exemptions or a flat rate based system. I do not feel that anyone is above paying in in one form or another. Hiding income offshore hurts everyone and giving breaks to companies that refuse to invest at home should be stopped. I do think the Bush tax cuts need to be allowed to expire. The are benefitting a select few and are, IMO, unfair.I am not sure that just because someone makes a lot of money, that money should be taxed at a higher rate than someone who earns less. Are the approximately 50% of the folks who pay NO income taxes paying their "fair share"? Should people who live off the largess of their fellow citizens have to perform some form of labor in order to obtain those benefits? (Something like the CCC, pick up trash along the highway, work on national park facilities, restore govt housing, etc.) We tried that in MN and the courts intervened. I think it only fair and a very good idea. The CCC and WPA would be very good models. Many good ,skilled jobs were learned in those programs. I also believe in time limits to aid. Generational welfare is a curse and something needs to change. Having to work at some type of job for benefits might foster a new work attitude in some. I just about puke when I see folks on aid with teh new phone or $$nails. Not what the aid should be about.(I'm not talking about the money we are really "entitled" to like social security). Should those folks have to submit to drug testing to get their benefits? I think that if the Dems would actually tie some entitlement conditions to tax increases, the republicans might see that as the spirit of cooperation, for instance.

It is a continuing shame that social issues like gay marriage and class warfare distract our once (and possibly still) great nation from the real issues like fiscal responsibility and individual freedom.

Build a Better System Regards

Franco

11-11-2012, 06:28 PM

You just validated every one of his points. You are angry and in no way, shape or form are you willing to work as a team to find resolutions that is best for everybody. Take your blinders off and lose the tunnel vision and you might be able to find some happiness in life instead of focusing on gloom and doom.

Yes you did validate your point! Funny how he and a few others are now playing the victim card.

Like you, I too am better off than I was 4 years ago though nothing to do with who is in the White House. It is about taking responsibility for one's own action so, it is pretty funny to read how the far righties are playing the victim card.

The Dems will always use issues of personal freedom against the far righties because they are such easy targets and it is so easy to sidetrack them. And, you know a couple of Repub politicians are always going to say something rediculous that the press will jump all over. Not that them Dems don't say anything stupid, it is just the Repubs are always attacking the wrong isues.

Don't like gay marriage? Then don't have one.
Don't like abortion, then don't get one.
A truely free people should have those choices and whether they are legal or not should be left up to the individual states.

P S

In regards to taxes, all tax payers are paying way too much! Blame it on the Dems and Repubs for spending insanity and poor domestic, foreign, monetary, energy, education, immigration and drug policies.

M&K's Retrievers

11-11-2012, 06:36 PM

You left out the biggest categories of recipients of government aid -- Medicare and social security. If aid is defined as folks getting more than they put into the system, then I guess those folks can't vote either. Have a good time with that.

Nope. People paid in to SS and Medicare. I don't know about you but I doubt I'll ever get back more than I put in to these programs.

Golddogs

11-11-2012, 06:49 PM

To the O.P.

What does Skin color have to do with any of this???

Gooser

Really ?? You have to ask ???

They are the ones driving the bus and ignoring or dismissing anyone that does not look, think or act like them. The Rush's, Beck's. Rove's are what I consider the problem ; AWM.

Many Black, Latino's and women would like to be heard by the GOP, but are instead sent to the back of the classroom. The mayor from Texas who spoke at the GOP convention was, IMO, a token gesture toward the Hispanic comunity. And that is a shame because he is a very sharp guy.

Gooser, most of the diatribe presented on this board is from AWM, and a reflection of the problem as I see it. The GOP needs to include everyone, not just the religous right, rich white guys and corporate America if they want a chance at helping us get out of this mess. There are a lot of sharp people out there that would enjoy a seat at the table.

Sex and Color Blind Regards

( and congrats on the job with the medical company )

MooseGooser

11-11-2012, 07:38 PM

Approx 50% of the country voted against the Dems... I highly doubt all of those folks are white..

I bet many different skin colors are angry...

Remember,, the country is about evenly divided..

Both sides have a mandate.

Gooser

MooseGooser

11-11-2012, 07:55 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_conservatism_in_the_United_States

So,, Ya I had to ask....

Dr Walter Williams
Dr.Condolesa Rice
Herman Cain
Michelle Malkin

Just a coulp of AMERICANS that are prolly angry..

Gooser

Terri

11-11-2012, 08:01 PM

Gooser, I know more than the angry white guys voted GOP, but the party and many guys on here want no part of anyone that isn't a white male. Throw the females under the bus. Throw the college kids under the bus. Throw the minorities under the bus. Throw all immigrants under the bus. Throw all government workers under the bus. Throw all union workers under the bus. Throw all gays under the bus. You guys are running out of people to throw under your bus.

I know people in all those groups that voted GOP. The sad thing is my brother who is male, white, non immigrant, owns his own businesses, anti government, anti union, 100% straight, very religious voted third party. You do not think I'm good enough to be a Republican because I'm a women, but my brother did not think the boys the GOP put up were good enough to receive his vote.

Terri

luvmylabs23139

11-11-2012, 08:12 PM

Gooser, I know more than the angry white guys voted GOP, but the party and many guys on here want no part of anyone that isn't a white male. Throw the females under the bus. Throw the college kids under the bus. Throw the minorities under the bus. Throw all immigrants under the bus. Throw all government workers under the bus. Throw all union workers under the bus. Throw all gays under the bus. You guys are running out of people to throw under your bus.

I know people in all those groups that voted GOP. The sad thing is my brother who is male, white, non immigrant, owns his own businesses, anti government, anti union, 100% straight, very religious voted third party. You do not think I'm good enough to be a Republican because I'm a women, but my brother did not think the boys the GOP put up were good enough to receive his vote.

Terri

Well as a woman and a legal immigrant I don't think I have been thrown under the bus by the republican party. All I see from the dems is giving away for free things that have been worked hard for and earned by my family and me including the right to be in this country.

huntinman

11-11-2012, 08:15 PM

Gooser, I know more than the angry white guys voted GOP, but the party and many guys on here want no part of anyone that isn't a white male. Throw the females under the bus. Throw the college kids under the bus. Throw the minorities under the bus. Throw all immigrants under the bus. Throw all government workers under the bus. Throw all union workers under the bus. Throw all gays under the bus. You guys are running out of people to throw under your bus.

I know people in all those groups that voted GOP. The sad thing is my brother who is male, white, non immigrant, owns his own businesses, anti government, anti union, 100% straight, very religious voted third party. You do not think I'm good enough to be a Republican because I'm a women, but my brother did not think the boys the GOP put up were good enough to receive his vote.

Terri

Terri, I have to say that sounds to me like you have fallen for the media spin. I'm a life long Republican. Yet, in my small office I am the only white male which also includes a Puerto Rican male republican, and two females one white, one black. They are both democrats. We all get along well. We haven't thrown each other under the bus...

What I want to know is who the hell ever said any woman wasn't good enough to be a republican because they were a woman? Can you answer that specifically?

You keep saying we want to throw everyone under the bus, but you don't provide any examples...

President Obama's affirmation of gay marriage threatens to undermine the near-monolithic black support Obama enjoyed in 2008. Several members of the black clergy now say they intend to sit out the presidential election. One poll from last November found black opposition to gay marriage at 58 percent, higher than the rest of the country, which is about evenly split.
The real question is this: What took black church leaders so long to reconsider their near blind support for the Democratic Party?
The historical strength of black churches has been that of a moral and spiritual refuge in a once-hostile country of legalized slavery and Jim Crow. This explains why so many civil rights leaders came out of the church. The moral cause was just and clear: Equal rights mean equal rights -- for everyone.
But equal rights and equal results are two very different things. The modern civil rights movement lost its way by failing to appreciate the difference. To achieve "equal results," the Democratic Party, among other things, demands redistribution of wealth, a government response to the "gap" between the rich and poor, higher minimum wages and higher taxes on the so-called rich.
The Democratic Party opposes education vouchers, despite polls showing that black and Hispanic inner-city parents want them. The Democratic Party is the party of race-based preferences and also opposes privatization of Social Security.
The Democratic Party is the party of the welfare state -- a neutron bomb dropped on the intact nuclear family. Author/editor/professor Marvin Olasky, in his book "The Tragedy of American Compassion," traces the growth of welfare. During a mere three-year period in the 1960s, welfare rolls increased nearly 110 percent. President Johnson established "neighborhood centers" whose workers went door-to-door, apprising people of their welfare "rights and benefits."
Until the so-called "War on Poverty," the poverty rate declined steadily. At the turn of the century, nearly 70 percent of Americans were poor. But by the time of the "War on Poverty," the rate stood at approximately 13 or 14 percent. What happened? Welfare created dependency and decreased the incentive of the welfare recipient.
The Heritage Foundation compared families on welfare versus families eligible for welfare but that, for one reason or another, refused to take it. The results were startling. Heritage reported: "Young women raised in families dependent on welfare are two to three times more likely to drop out and fail to graduate from high school than are young women of similar race and socioeconomic background not raised on welfare. Similarly, single mothers raised as children in families receiving welfare remain on AFDC longer as adult parents than do single mothers not raised in welfare families, even when all other social and economic variables are held constant."
The Democratic Party is the party of Roe v. Wade, even though blacks are more pro-life than whites. Former President Jimmy Carter, a religious man who called himself "twice born," thought the Democratic Party made a tactical and moral error by embracing abortion-on-demand as a federal right guaranteed by the Constitution: "I never have believed that Jesus Christ would approve of abortions, and that was one of the problems I had when I was president, having to uphold Roe v. Wade. ... But except for the times when a mother's life is in danger or when a pregnancy is caused by rape or incest, I would certainly not and never have approved any abortions. ... My position on abortion ... is to minimize the need or requirement for abortion and limit it only to women whose (lives) are in danger or who are pregnant as a result of rape or incest. I think if the Democratic Party would adopt that policy, that would be acceptable to a lot of people who are now estranged from our party because of the abortion issue."
The Democratic Party is the party of tax-the-rich. Never mind that Democratic Party icon President John Kennedy sounded downright trickle-downish when he said: "It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low -- and the soundest way to raise revenues in the long run is to cut rates now. The experience of a number of European countries has borne this out. This country's own experience with tax reductions in 1954 has borne this out, and the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget -- and tax reduction can pave the way to full employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budgetary deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous expanding economy which will bring a budgetary surplus."
The Democratic Party is the party of minimum wage. Nobel Laureate economist Milton Friedman said, "We regard the minimum wage as one of the most, if not the most, anti-black laws on the statute books."
For all these reasons, having nothing to do with gay marriage, black churches should have broken with the Democratic Party long ago. Better late than never.

So,, You see some Blacks are in a quandry because of their Moral values,, and what has evolved of the equal "rights" into equa l" results" debate..

Minorities and MANY white folks that have become dependent on the government "Drug" of entitlements will most definatly vote to protect what they consider is their right... To recieve something for nothing in return..
There are folks of all denominations that take advantage of this situation...
They are addicted,, and those of us that support them to stay that way are enablers.

Those of us that want them to stay that way just so they can recieve their vote ,,, are criminals...

This is what will bring our country to in knees..

We need education. We need vouchers , so ALL people have a choice as to what schools their kids attend..
Uneducated populace will NOT be able to compete in the future world economy..

To encourage dependency,, and mediocrity is enough to make any skin color angry.. Or at least it should be..

We need JOBS... we need ALL people back to work..

remember American Exceptionalisum?

Gooser

murral stark

11-11-2012, 08:36 PM

My comments in red above.

It's not voter suppression. If an individual cannot help support the country and live off those that do, they should not have a say in how the country is run. You and I are stockholders in this country and have a say in how it's run. Those on welfare are employees of this country getting paid a salary in the form of benefits for which they nothing in return and as such should have no say in how the company is run.

Pretty simple really.

You and I agree on something. We pay the salaries of those recipients. I believe they should have to do something to earn it, not just make more babies to get a bigger check. The GOP did not give away freebies, but their narcissistic belief that because they have lots of money they can buy the election, was a slap in the face to the average working class person. People like me. BTW, I voted 3rd party.

murral stark

11-11-2012, 08:45 PM

So,, you see,,YOU are ONE of the FEW that some of the past happenings hasnt effected , But in reality it has!!
Down the road it definitely will, because of the debt this nation is accumulating..

Right now,, as far as YOU and YOUR personal situation is concerned its not a problem... BUT,, What about the folks who it has impacted??

I donít know your situation,, but if you are like MOST of US,, you prolly work for one a them evil RICH guys.
If you look at history of other economies and countries,, if their system of government becomes so oppressive with regulation and taxation that it inhibits entrepreneurialism,, those entrepreneurs go elsewhere,, and YOU my friend are out of a job.,, and your COUNTRY is up the proverbial shit creek,, cause THEY (Entrpreneurs) pay for almost ALL the taxes, that pay for all the entitlements that those who WONT work get..

All of the above is meaningless, UNLESS of course,, you are one of the soulless that works for Government,, and you will sell your soul,, just to protect you cowardly hide, and your cushy job with huge benefits,, AGAIN that the evil RICH guy is payin for..

Mr Stark,, YOU are like the MANY,, that as long as it doesnít affect YOU directly,, then the rest of US,,, that it HAS effected,,, are having a bad case of tunnel vision and looking through blinders...

YOU are the one that needs to open your eyes and look around..
Its Not about YOU!!! per sea.

JMHDAO

Againn... What specifically has happened with the Past election , that has you so optimistic,FOR THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY?

One of the questions during the campaign was, "are YOUbetter off than you were 4 years ago? For me the answer is yes. Jesse Ventura answered that question this way,"Yes, because George Bush and Dick Cheney are no longer in office." Others may have encountered issues and I feel for them. I am just lucky I guess. Although during the previous administration I encountered issues, plant closure, couldn't find a job, lost my house. You see where I'm coming from?

Terri

11-11-2012, 09:11 PM

Bill, I have not even been able to watch T.V., expect football and a program about dooms day survivors since the election because I do not want to hear the left cheer. My example can be found in another thread here on RTF put up by Uncle Bill. It named all the groups I have listed above as the reason this nation is going down the toilet. The author of his post made it out as though only white guys had nothing to do with the results of the election. Then Marvin had to make his correction, which was adding more salt. I voted republican, my daughters, one a state working the other a college student voted republican. My son a college student and a city worker voted republican. My husband a state worker/small businesses owner/teacher voted republican. My mother a retired federal worker voted republican. While my own brother voted third party.

Some people work for the government because that was the only job available. My son started teaching swim learns and being a lifeguard at 14 year old. Not too many good jobs for kids that age. He likes his job and at 23 years old he is now the manager of the city pool he started working at all those years ago. My daughter graduated from law school and she applied for many jobs and took the first job offered because she has bills to pay. She is a securities investigator for the state. Helping the victims of investment fraud, not making anywhere near the money she would if she was on the other side of the fence. My husband also took the first job offered to him when he graduated with a masters in Civil Engineering. We did not go home to mom and dad. He got a job to pay our bills. He likes the projects he works on, but he has had to take on a part time teaching job and start a small business to pay for our kids to have braces and go to college. Then I hear some old guys putting this mess in our lap when I'm sick to death about the reelection of a socialist. My brother keeps telling me to stop holding my noise and voting for a group that does not care about my money, let alone my values. When he kept talking to me about the election I was glad he lived in another state, but now I'm really glad he lives in another state because I think he might be right and I would have punched him for no good reason.

Luvmylabs, I'm glad to hear that you do not feel like anyone is throwing you under the bus.

Terri

MooseGooser

11-11-2012, 09:17 PM

Mr Stark!!

Again! since you say you are so optimistic,, and Guys like me are Angry old Dinosaurs,,,

Againn... What specifically has happened with the Past election , that has you so optimistic,FOR THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY?

Gooser

huntinman

11-11-2012, 09:25 PM

Bill, I have not even been able to watch T.V., expect football and a program about dooms day survivors since the election because I do not want to hear the left cheer. My example can be found in another thread here on RTF put up by Uncle Bill. It named all the groups I have listed above as the reason this nation is going down the toilet. The author of his post made it out as though only white guys had nothing to do with the results of the election. Then Marvin had to make his correction, which was adding more salt. I voted republican, my daughters, one a state working the other a college student voted republican. My son a college student and a city worker voted republican. My husband a state worker/small businesses owner/teacher voted republican. My mother a retired federal worker voted republican. While my own brother voted third party.

Some people work for the government because that was the only job available. My son started teaching swim learns and being a lifeguard at 14 year old. Not too many good jobs for kids that age. He likes his job and at 23 years old he is now the manager of the city pool he started working at all those years ago. My daughter graduated from law school and she applied for many jobs and took the first job offered because she has bills to pay. She is a securities investigator for the state. Helping the victims of investment fraud, not making anywhere near the money she would if she was on the other side of the fence. My husband also took the first job offered to him when he graduated with a masters in Civil Engineering. We did not go home to mom and dad. He got a job to pay our bills. He likes the projects he works on, but he has had to take on a part time teaching job and start a small business to pay for our kids to have braces and go to college. Then I hear some old guys putting this mess in our lap when I'm sick to death about the reelection of a socialist. My brother keeps telling me to stop holding my noise and voting for a group that does not care about my money, let alone my values. When he kept talking to me about the election I was glad he lived in another state, but now I'm really glad he lives in another state because I think he might be right and I would have punched him for no good reason.

Luvmylabs, I'm glad to hear that you do not feel like anyone is throwing you under the bus.

Terri

Terri, thank you for your reply. It sounds to me like you and your husband have done one heck of a job raising your kids. They are doing the best they can and hurray for them!! I would be very proud of them if they were my kids. I think you are in the same boat as my wife and I are in with the frustration over the election. There are millions of us who feel the same. But I really don't feel that now is the time for lifelong conservatives to abandon their beliefs... It is natural to have doubts... And we will have plenty especially with the media and the libs piling on and gloating in the short term. But they will over reach like they always do and we will come back by the mid-terms... Then we just have to focus on 2016. Heck, it was just 2008 when all the pundits said the republicans were history, then we blew them out in 2010.

MooseGooser

11-11-2012, 09:34 PM

Gooser, I know more than the angry white guys voted GOP, but the party and many guys on here want no part of anyone that isn't a white male. Throw the females under the bus. Throw the college kids under the bus. Throw the minorities under the bus. Throw all immigrants under the bus. Throw all government workers under the bus. Throw all union workers under the bus. Throw all gays under the bus. You guys are running out of people to throw under your bus.

I know people in all those groups that voted GOP. The sad thing is my brother who is male, white, non immigrant, owns his own businesses, anti government, anti union, 100% straight, very religious voted third party. You do not think I'm good enough to be a Republican because I'm a women, but my brother did not think the boys the GOP put up were good enough to receive his vote.

Terri

Terri
This is just my OPINION.

I beleive this election was an election whos main Importance was Fiscal resposiblity//

Our Government,, and many other Governments around the WORLD just cant afford the debt their particular country is accumulating..

We had a chioce of two very different parties.
1 of them has a Platform to grow government,, and increase entitlements. iNCREASE TAXES.

the other party platform is Less government and cut spending and reduce taxation..

While I dont agree with ALL of what the latter partys platform preaches,, They speak best out of the 2 realistic choices for me.

I didnt want to use a vote of loyalty to a thrid party, thus taking my vote our of one of the realistic parties pocket,, and throw it away, thus giving my vote to the other party (Dem) in return.

We have had presidents in the Past that debated both sides of RoeVs Wade.. Nothing has changed..
I dont think anything would have changed this time either,, even though Romney said the things he believes..
He would NOT have been KING just as OBAMA isnt...

I do not think you are NOTgood enough to be a republican because you are a woman..The woman I married is a republican and she told me on several occations how Lucky I was that I did as I was told,, and Married her.. She is a very good republican.:):)

By the way... She makes me buy my OWN birth controll "~

I think there are many republican women who feel "Good Enough" to be republican,, and I just bet the Husbands, Boyfriends, Fathers,, and Mothers, agree.

Terri

11-11-2012, 10:29 PM

Bill and Gooser, I think the GOP let some people pull them off message, this election should have been all about the economy. Some started eating their own and the feasting has not ended, yet. Hopefully the blame game will end soon and we can start working on ways to highlight the need for a productive America over a gimme my free stuff society. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a life time. This is the message that comes to mind. May we all live through the bleeding from more taxes being taken out of our pockets and put in the hands of big spenders. We only have two years to come up with a plan and it better be something great that can excite more people to vote for a strong America, not one hanging on the edge of the cliff of financial disaster.
Terri

Marvin S

11-11-2012, 11:19 PM

Then Marvin had to make his correction, which was adding more salt. I voted republican, my daughters, one a state working the other a college student voted republican. Terri

Terri - you make no mention of where you live in your avatar - I live in WA & am & have been very active in politics - I have a very good idea of what I talk about :).

PamK

11-11-2012, 11:55 PM

[QUOTE]You keep saying we want to throw everyone under the bus, but you don't provide any examples... [QUOTE]

And what type of medical exams are males required to have? Can you list one that a state government requires for males?
It always astounds me when Repubs say they are for less regulation and then pass laws requiring more regulations and more spending.

road kill

11-12-2012, 06:34 AM

Really ?? You have to ask ???

They are the ones driving the bus and ignoring or dismissing anyone that does not look, think or act like them. The Rush's, Beck's. Rove's are what I consider the problem ; AWM.

Many Black, Latino's and women would like to be heard by the GOP, but are instead sent to the back of the classroom. The mayor from Texas who spoke at the GOP convention was, IMO, a token gesture toward the Hispanic comunity. And that is a shame because he is a very sharp guy.

Gooser, most of the diatribe presented on this board is from AWM, and a reflection of the problem as I see it. The GOP needs to include everyone, not just the religous right, rich white guys and corporate America if they want a chance at helping us get out of this mess. There are a lot of sharp people out there that would enjoy a seat at the table.

Not a bad list. How about adding that no one can vote in an election until 3 years after they received their last form of welfare IE food stamps, public housing, medicaid, Obamaphones, etc. Our current system of allowing politicians to buy votes by allowing those on the public dole to vote is outrageous.

Let the bleeding hearts begin...
Ok, but let's make it fair. Any corporation receiving a subsidy or is using a tax loophole created by our politicians must have.some constitutional protected right revoked also. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

road kill

11-12-2012, 06:57 AM

Ok, but let's make it fair. Any corporation receiving a subsidy or is using a tax loophole created by our politicians must immediately have their right to vote revoked. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
How many corporations vote?

hotel4dogs

11-12-2012, 08:15 AM

I am an angry white woman.
And it's not over the issues like gay marriage or abortion. Those honestly have no impact on who I vote for. It's over the economy, and the welfare state that we have become. It's over the amount of taxes I have to pay because, stupid me, I work for a living rather than living off the system. It's because people can get a free phone and 250 free minutes and I pay for mine. It's because people in the line ahead of me in the grocery store are buying expensive items with their "link card", which you can get without any proof of lack of income. It's because people avoid getting married in order to collect money for each child, and then laugh in our faces and tell us we don't know how to "play the system". It's because people collect free child medical care and then can afford to spend $150 on a hair cut/treatment. It's because people can collect unemployment for long periods of time when they are not *really* looking for a job. It's because the schools in this area just keep sucking more and more money from the tax payers so the kids can have dance studios, rock climbing walls, and more with no accountability for how the money is being spent. It's because I worked my a$$ off 80-100 hours a week to build a business from the ground up, investing every (post tax) dime I had in it and a lot I didn't have, and now if I go to sell it I will owe the government 25% of everything I busted my butt for so they can finance still more of these programs.
I'm angry because in this stupid area they managed to overwhelmingly re-elect a politician who has been on medical leave for almost 6 months and is currently under federal indictment for extortion, and it was a "race related" election result.
I'm angry because no one asked how much Air Force One was costing the tax payers during the campaigning, at some obscene amount like $150,000 per hour (not including security costs).
The list goes on and on and on.
Yes, I am very angry. I don't plan to "get on board". I plan to stay angry. And I hope enough other AWW and AWM will stay angry, too, to keep the current administration from enacting still more of their expensive schemes that only benefit 47%. I am not one of the 47%.

Funny. I was thinking about putting a few pictures of angry white men here too. You forgot Joe Biden,Harry Reid,Ed Schultz,Alan Grayson,Chris Matthews,David Letterman,Larry O'Donnel,.....too many to mention. I guess it's only bad to be angry if you disagree with a liberal.

huntinman

11-12-2012, 10:42 AM

I am an angry white woman.
And it's not over the issues like gay marriage or abortion. Those honestly have no impact on who I vote for. It's over the economy, and the welfare state that we have become. It's over the amount of taxes I have to pay because, stupid me, I work for a living rather than living off the system. It's because people can get a free phone and 250 free minutes and I pay for mine. It's because people in the line ahead of me in the grocery store are buying expensive items with their "link card", which you can get without any proof of lack of income. It's because people avoid getting married in order to collect money for each child, and then laugh in our faces and tell us we don't know how to "play the system". It's because people collect free child medical care and then can afford to spend $150 on a hair cut/treatment. It's because people can collect unemployment for long periods of time when they are not *really* looking for a job. It's because the schools in this area just keep sucking more and more money from the tax payers so the kids can have dance studios, rock climbing walls, and more with no accountability for how the money is being spent. It's because I worked my a$$ off 80-100 hours a week to build a business from the ground up, investing every (post tax) dime I had in it and a lot I didn't have, and now if I go to sell it I will owe the government 25% of everything I busted my butt for so they can finance still more of these programs.
I'm angry because in this stupid area they managed to overwhelmingly re-elect a politician who has been on medical leave for almost 6 months and is currently under federal indictment for extortion, and it was a "race related" election result.
I'm angry because no one asked how much Air Force One was costing the tax payers during the campaigning, at some obscene amount like $150,000 per hour (not including security costs).
The list goes on and on and on.
Yes, I am very angry. I don't plan to "get on board". I plan to stay angry. And I hope enough other AWW and AWM will stay angry, too, to keep the current administration from enacting still more of their expensive schemes that only benefit 47%. I am not one of the 47%.

Right on............

Golddogs

11-12-2012, 11:01 AM

[The only posts here that seem "angry" are the OP's.[/QUOTE]

I would have expected better from you Stan.

You confuse dissapointment with anger and, like many, refuse to even think that the attitude fostered by the RNC is out of tune with a majority of party faithful, but rather driven by a select few who work to limit everyones liberties, while pushing a more restrictive, morality controlling agenda. They continue to work to restrict the rights of others, making those issues the corner stone of the platform. We do not need the goverment telling us what our values should be. They are learned at home.

The country has changed and will continue to change and if the RNC doesn't adapt, they do not stand a chance of remaining the Grand Old Party.

Step into the Light Regards

road kill

11-12-2012, 11:11 AM

I would have expected better from you Stan.
Don't be too disappointed!!!

You confuse dissapointment with anger and, like many, refuse to even think that the attitude fostered by the RNC is out of tune with a majority of party faithful, but rather driven by a select few who work to limit everyones liberties, while pushing a more restrictive, morality controlling agenda. They continue to work to restrict the rights of others, making those issues the corner stone of the platform. We do not need the goverment telling us what our values should be. They are learned at home.
If you voted for Obama or 3rd party, you are anything BUT faithful!

The country has changed and will continue to change and if the RNC doesn't adapt, they do not stand a chance of remaining the Grand Old Party.
The country has not changed, the secular progressives have hi-jacked it.

Step into the Light Regards

Maybe YOU are confused!!??!!??

I don't much care for the progressive light.:cool:

huntinman

11-12-2012, 11:15 AM

I have said it before... Anytime the libs are telling the right what they should do because that is "what is best for them".... you just have to ask yourself why would the libs care if the the right went down the drain. The lefties are giving us all of this sanctimonious advice on what we need to do... If you were really that concerned about us, you would have given us the advice before the election... and maybe even voted for a few of our candidates... But you didn't so it's all bull in the first place. Politics is a tough game... thats just the way it is... you won the battle, but the war is never ending. We will be back. So keep your advice, see you at the polls in the mid-terms.

cotts135

11-12-2012, 11:22 AM

How many corporations vote?

Got me:p

I edited the original

Need to proofread a little better before hitting send

road kill

11-12-2012, 11:29 AM

Got me:p

I edited the original

Need to proofread a little better before hitting send
Nah, just razzing you.

I don't think there should be any economic barriers to vote.
I knew some people who had no cash, some of the richest folks I ever met.
No education barriers to vote.
I knew some folks that never got past the 5th grade, smartest people I ever knew of.

But I will admit, there were some that voted that maybe shouldn't have.
Not sure they knew what day it was, let alone who they voted for.

Maybe a drug test to vote??

Oh, wait, that's a liberty now!;-)

duk4me

11-12-2012, 11:49 AM

How many corporations vote?

I laughed when I read this and then I remembered the d$mn lobbyist in Washington swaying votes and got mad again. The razz was a good one though.:)

duckheads

11-12-2012, 11:52 AM

I am an angry white woman.
And it's not over the issues like gay marriage or abortion. Those honestly have no impact on who I vote for. It's over the economy, and the welfare state that we have become. It's over the amount of taxes I have to pay because, stupid me, I work for a living rather than living off the system. It's because people can get a free phone and 250 free minutes and I pay for mine. It's because people in the line ahead of me in the grocery store are buying expensive items with their "link card", which you can get without any proof of lack of income. It's because people avoid getting married in order to collect money for each child, and then laugh in our faces and tell us we don't know how to "play the system". It's because people collect free child medical care and then can afford to spend $150 on a hair cut/treatment. It's because people can collect unemployment for long periods of time when they are not *really* looking for a job. It's because the schools in this area just keep sucking more and more money from the tax payers so the kids can have dance studios, rock climbing walls, and more with no accountability for how the money is being spent. It's because I worked my a$$ off 80-100 hours a week to build a business from the ground up, investing every (post tax) dime I had in it and a lot I didn't have, and now if I go to sell it I will owe the government 25% of everything I busted my butt for so they can finance still more of these programs.
I'm angry because in this stupid area they managed to overwhelmingly re-elect a politician who has been on medical leave for almost 6 months and is currently under federal indictment for extortion, and it was a "race related" election result.
I'm angry because no one asked how much Air Force One was costing the tax payers during the campaigning, at some obscene amount like $150,000 per hour (not including security costs).
The list goes on and on and on.
Yes, I am very angry. I don't plan to "get on board". I plan to stay angry. And I hope enough other AWW and AWM will stay angry, too, to keep the current administration from enacting still more of their expensive schemes that only benefit 47%. I am not one of the 47%.

Exactly...........

huntinman

11-12-2012, 11:59 AM

Funny. I was thinking about putting a few pictures of angry white men here too. You forgot Joe Biden,Harry Reid,Ed Schultz,Alan Grayson,Chris Matthews,David Letterman,Larry O'Donnel,.....too many to mention. I guess it's only bad to be angry if you disagree with a liberal.

Exactly right...

still the best avatar on RTF...

Illinois Bob

11-12-2012, 12:16 PM

[QUOTE=Golddogs;1032591}

We do not need the goverment telling us what our values should be. They are learned at home.

[/QUOTE]

When is that going to start? :)

huntinmann,that's an old photo in my avatar.she has since taught me to line up correctly where she wants me to be.

Gerry Clinchy

11-12-2012, 03:58 PM

I think that there should be mandatory work to receive the benefits. If they are not willing to look for a job, then they should be forced to do community service to earn those checks.

They will, however, have to fight the unions on that.

Example: Locally, here in my area, a group of Boy Scouts proposed a project to clean up a particular public parkland that the city did not have the manpower to keep up with. The union went up in arms because the Scouts would be interfering with work the union workers should get paid to do. The only thing that pulled the Scouts out of the hot water, and got the park cleaned up, was the justifiable public outrage at the union's stupidity. The city didn't then (and doesn't now) have the funds to hire any more workers to do all that needs doing ... without citizens volunteering the park land would still be a trash heap.

Sort of like the Alabama utility workers being turned away from NJ because they were non-union.

HPL

11-12-2012, 05:15 PM

They will, however, have to fight the unions on that.

Example: Locally, here in my area, a group of Boy Scouts proposed a project to clean up a particular public parkland that the city did not have the manpower to keep up with. The union went up in arms because the Scouts would be interfering with work the union workers should get paid to do. The only thing that pulled the Scouts out of the hot water, and got the park cleaned up, was the justifiable public outrage at the union's stupidity. The city didn't then (and doesn't now) have the funds to hire any more workers to do all that needs doing ... without citizens volunteering the park land would still be a trash heap.

Sort of like the Alabama utility workers being turned away from NJ because they were non-union.

Haven't been paying enough attention to the news to know if those folks have power yet or not. (hope not):evil:

Buzz

11-12-2012, 05:26 PM

Well, after scanning quickly through this thread, it's clear that you all are angry... ;-)

murral stark

11-12-2012, 05:53 PM

Mr Stark!!

Again! since you say you are so optimistic,, and Guys like me are Angry old Dinosaurs,,,

Againn... What specifically has happened with the Past election , that has you so optimistic,FOR THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY?

Gooser

I have said it before and I will say it again just for clarification. I live for today and make the most of everyday I am here. I don't worry about retiring because I will continue to work until the day I die. I've seen many people put off things they could do today until they retire. shortly after retirement, they pass on. then their family fights about the money and belongings. They really got to enjoy their retirement huh?

roseberry

11-12-2012, 06:43 PM

angry white men? angry white men? angry white men?

let us examine the fact that in national elections:

blacks and black men historically vote ~84% for anyone with a (d) behind their name. they vote >90% for any black man with a (d) behind their name.

i grew up in the rural south with arfican americans as a high percentage of my school mates, i have lived in some of the most diverse cities in the country, i live in a very sucessfully integrated southern small town. even now occasionally i still go to the park and play basketball with friends and neighbors. one thing i can tell you from near 50 years of constant observation is that the opinions of african americans are as diverse as any other demographic group......until election day.

hispanic men seem to vote ~74% for anyone with a (d) behind their name. i work with and employ hispanic workers today. in my interaction and observation of hispanics as a demographic group i see varied opinions and values.....until election day.

white women seem to vote~56% for anyone with a (d) behind their name. i spoke in agreement with memmon in a thread two months ago about what this demographic group was going to do in this immediate past election. and guess what?

young people......?

now poor little old, hard working, white guys line up and vote together at a rate of about ~54% behind a republican candidate. these men lose and say: don't tax the wealthy....they buy my products......i intend to be wealthy some day......you take the rewards of my work and pass it out as earned income tax credit......you spend money you don't have.......blah blah blah. they say this and they are called angry?

there are in fact plenty of angry demographic groups of voters. they all stick together in their voting regardless of their diverse values or the real issues at hand. in my opinion white men appear to be the least angry group. if they are angry they have a dang funny way of displaying it on election day.

JS

11-12-2012, 06:45 PM

Well, after scanning quickly through this thread, it's clear that you all are angry... ;-)

For me, I hope they stay angry and keep their collective heads right where they are! :p

Can you say, "Hillary - 2016".

Welcome back, Bill regards, :cool:

JS

murral stark

11-12-2012, 06:54 PM

How many corporations vote?
Romney said that corporations are people.

HPL

11-12-2012, 07:13 PM

Romney said that corporations are people.

So are ten year olds, but they don't vote. Now I'm not saying that corporations ARE people, but just being people is NOT enough to vote.

HPL

11-13-2012, 06:06 AM

And they are, by Federal Law, in some circumstances, such as the Internal Revenue Code:

(a) When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof—

(1) Person

The term “person” shall be construed to mean and include an individual, a trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation.

(Excerpt from 26 USC section 7701)

Ain't it great? ;)

Bravo!!! Bravo!!!

hotel4dogs

11-13-2012, 07:42 AM

I read this morning (Huff Post) that residents from 31 different states have petitioned to secede from the United States. Guess I'm not the only one who's angry.
The headline says 12 states, but the list was updated to include all 31 states involved.

A petition filed by Jesse W. (no last name provided) on behalf of Arkansas reads:
As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

Micah H. (no last name provided) of Arlington, Texas filed a petition that says:
The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.