How many difference makers does an NHL team really need? Seriously. You need a quality starter in net, four defensemen who can really play, three centers and enough wingers to ice two scoring lines. Sound right? The rest are sixes and sevens and nines. Fair?

There are two new names on this depth chart, and they are substantial. Can we agree, that given this lineup, and typical, run of the mill ‘replacement level’ players at the other spots, this team should contend for a playoff position? I think that is fair.

In yesterday’s comments thread, the idea of trading Darnell Nurse for an immediate upgrade (say Faulk) was met with a great deal of resistance—and I am not sure why. That kind of trade, often called the three-for-one, is exactly what Peter Chiarelli should be looking for this summer. I doubt Nurse is part of any trade, but others may be, some of them universal favorites.

If you could trade this year’s first round pick, Darnell Nurse and Griffin Reinhart for Faulk and Hamonic, would you? I think that is the kind of drastic action required by Chiarelli before fall.

TRADE PIECES

If we use that roster above as a template, here is my list—greater to lesser—of assets Peter Chiarelli should at least consider trading. Note: I am not excluding the idea of trading Jordan Eberle, only suggesting the Oilers may be best served by trading prospects and less established players, for actual NHL players.

2016 first round selection (I assume top five overall)

Darnell Nurse

Brandon Davidson

Mark Fayne

Matt Hendricks

Anton Slepyshev

Griffin Reinhart

Laurent Brossoit

Ziyat Paigin

If you see anyone on this list that makes you wince, or have decided that an Eberle or a Yakupov or even a Nuge trade is the hill you die on, I urge you to reconsider. I think the best plan of action is to come out of the summer with a roster like the one above, and if trading Nuge gets you Faulk and you can sign a (very) capable two-way center, then make it so.

That said, I think Chiarelli should be able to add enough on defense without dealing Eberle, Nuge, Yakupov or Nurse. That first-round pick should be in play. Seriously.

MCDAVID’S RETURN

Connor McDavid:“The whole point of this was kind of to take some contact, I was cleared for contact right before the All-Star break, I didn’t have a chance to that with the guys (in Edmonton) so it’s a good chance down here to take some bumps and really battle hard and test it out and see how it feels.”Source

Well, there you go. Hammer Chiarelli until midnight, but that was the time line. As someone who saw Mike Grier, Ryan Smyth and others play through some pretty substantial injuries (I actually heard Grier scream in pain when his shoulder was knocked out of place, he returned to the bench, had it ‘re-set’ in time for the next shift), part of me is pleased with this kind of over-patience. As a fan I am mad as hell, but McDavid is a teenager and the next decade is fairly important!

McDavid has 32 more games, I expect he will score around 32 points. Can the Oilers match the total? They will need great goaltending, a healthy defense, but should have two scoring lines. The trade deadline looms, but Calgary is just two points ahead of Edmonton and beating them is a big damned deal for me. Can’t wait to see McDavid back on the ice.

Top prospects on Team White/Orr living up to the billing. Tkachuk, Nylander, Juolevi, Dubois all looking like top 10 picks.

CHL TOP PROSPECTS

Always a fun game, I was impressed by several prospects (Dubois, McLeod, Laberge, Hart) and look forward to reading thoughts on the game from online scouts. Gents worth a follow (if you are interested) are Steve Kournianos, Corey Pronman and Brendan Ross.

TRADE SOON?

Photo by Lisa Brown (Ben Betker)

The Oilers claimed Adam Clendening and sent Ben Betker to Norfolk during the break, suggesting Brad Hunt will be staying in the minors. Edmonton will recall Zack Kassian and possibly Griffin Reinhart after the break, but also have to activate Connor McDavid and Brandon Davidson. It would seem there is a math issue ahead, and one way to deal with it is a trade.

I would think the Oilers brought Clendening in to play, so here is a first lash at the pairings for games in the coming week:

Sekera—Fayne

Davison—Schultz

Nurse—Clendening

With Gryba as the extra man, Reinhart in the minors. I don’t know when Klefbom is going to return, but one hopes it will be before the deadline. I would guess Peter Chiarelli would like to run February locked and loaded, full throttle, balls out, Stones Star Star leading up to the deadline. My goodness that defensive alignment needs Oscar.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy shoe, lots of fun guests as we head toward the last weekend of January (I don’t know why, but this January has been so damned long). TSN1260 at 10, scheduled to appear:

Steve Lansky, Big Mouth Sports. Milos, No Country for Old Men whose teams make the playoffs.

Dustin Nielson, TSN 1260. We chat about prospects, Raptors, Habs, and his time at hfboards when I was moderator. Should be fun!

Guy Flaming, Pipeline Show. We will talk about the Top Prospects Game, who impressed and who did not impress.

Paul Almeida, SSE. We will talk about McDavid’s return, the deadline, and how to improve the defense—that is a subject that gets little play on radio and online.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide twitter. Friday, bitches!

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193 Responses to "TWANGY, THREE-CHORD HONK"

NYCOIL “Gentleman Backpacker”:
Hi from Japan, where the Bank of Japan just now implemented negative interest rates. That’s a bit of a shocker. Pillow cases being stuffed as we speak, most likely, since people will have to PAY to keep their money at a bank now.

Japan is a savings culture, so I can’t imagine the government achieves its aim and gets people to spend. Their attempts to weaken the yen further and fan inflation notwithstanding.

They will talk about this in history and economics books one day for sure. The question is how does this end?

(From the last thread, because I am a slow reader.)

Man, I miss Tokyo. Be sure to visit 小便横丁!

That sound you hear is macroeconomic PhD nerds nearly blacking out with glee.

Thing is, the BOJ overnight unsecured rate has gone sub-zero in real terms previously, so this is more an episode of admitting the truth. A bit of a struggle between 建前 and 本音, over at last.

Anyway, some Euro institutions have done this, no? ECB, Swedes, and the Swiss, I think, with no calamity to report yet. The Nikkei responded positively, and if anything, it’s something the BoJ should have done 15 years ago.

BTW, I think Japan is no longer a savings culture. Due primarily to demographics (viz., an aging population), the savings rate has been trending down for a while and I seem to recall went negative in 2014. Lots of people who had been saving are now dis-saving.

Essentially the BoJ is trying to stimulate growth, and so I’m not sure there will be mattress-stuffing; if anything we should see a spike in consumption. My guess is firm-led, at first. Then we’ll see individual consumption begin to increase.

Interesting times for sure.

In closing, I think the Oilers are due for some quantitative easing. (量的緩和)

“In yesterday’s comments thread, the idea of trading Darnell Nurse for an immediate upgrade (say Faulk) was met with a great deal of resistance—and I am not sure why. That kind of trade, often called the three-for-one, is exactly what Peter Chiarelli should be looking for this summer. I doubt Nurse is part of any trade, but others may be, some of them universal favorites.

If you could trade this year’s first round pick, Darnell Nurse and Griffin Reinhart for Faulk and Hamonic, would you? I think that is the kind of drastic action required by Chiarelli before fall.”

I think the pick would have to be 1st overall. Carolina needs a number 1 center. Heck, they don’t even have a number 2 if E Staal leaves for UFA.

Faulk checks off all the boxes and then some. Fantastic contract at $4.8M. Is one of the elite number 1 D men in the game….and is RHD!!!!

I think the pick would have to be 1st overall. Carolina needs a number 1 center. Heck, they don’t even have a number 2 if E Staal leaves for UFA. They are loaded on the backend for prospects.

Would we trade Draisaitl for Faulk?

something to ponder. If we want McDavid to have an elite D man, we are going to need to give up something really good.

If you are trading that 1st i’d try to pull the trigger soon if possible, while the Oilers are in last place, assuming they don’t win lottery, if they do then you may get undervalue for it. Also a smart drafter in Detroit once said, “you don’t trade first round draft picks.” So it best be a huge return,

Zayit Pagin has pretty much no value right now to any other team so I think that is just a waste of a potential substantial prospect.

I was one of the people who yesterday was against trading Nurse. Don’t think I said it but I definitely thought it. If you can somehow get Faulk and Hamonic… I’d be just fine with that. I’d cringe everytime Mcdavid went into a corner with Nurse for the next 15 years but I’d be ok with it.

Today… still not crazy about it but potential be damned I want to cheer for a good hockey team again someday. Last year I was worried about the crazy trade. This year I just want it to happen. I’m ready for it. Even if it’s Nuge (God I hope it’s not Nuge).

– Great read LT: I’m worried, because I seem to be on the same page as you are…Take the players mentioned and I figure about $20MM will be spent on different players next year, to get to a balanced “core” that can be built around (bye-bye one Steve Austin, and some from your list)

– Man that is got to be one of the worst OIL D lineups iced in the last few years, and that says a lot:
Sekera—Fayne (Sekera half/one line too high, Fayne 1-2 lines too high)
Davison—Schultz (Davidson one line too high, Jultz one line too high and fading)
Nurse—Clendening (Neither have a home as NHL D, so put them together what could go wrong)

Best comments I have read all year on how to manage the team’s assets and upgrade now. For me you can add one of Yak or Ebs, but I would keep Brossoit. I really like Davidson, and would hope to keep Nurse but they can go for the right return. There is too high a chance Brossoit could be sensational.

There are very few scenarios where Id move Nurse and getting Faulk would be one of the few. I would trade Nurse, the 1st, + for Faulk and Hamonic because Hamonic can replace some of the intangibles that Nurse brings. I still believe Nurse is a top pairing future stud though. His size and drive will make him the kind of guy this team desperately needs him to be.

LT that lineup you suggested would be damn near cup contender let alone playoff contender.

First line is gonna be 4-97-29 for foreseeable future. Although seeing Eberle with McDavid would be fun.

Unless you have the specific 1D in mind (there’s only six or seven legit 1D in the whole league) that you can build a champion around and is available by trade:

STOP BUILDING ROSTERS BASED ON A 1D MODEL.

The Oilers are NOT getting a 1D, and building a roster based that assumes you have prime-Chara, prime-Doughty, or prime-Keith does not work.

What the Oilers do have is three elite C. You can build a champion without a 1D if you have 3 elite centres.

Trade one of Nuge, McDavid, or Draisaitl and you DON’T get one of those six or seven top notch defensemen back, and what you’ve built is a roster that will forever make the playoffs and will never be a contender.

Picking the right build strategy is critical to whether this team moves long-term up 10 spots (to perennial playoff contention) or up 20 spots (to perennial championship contention).

That said, I’d rather trade Eberle than a high first round pick and replace him with a mid range veteran free agent scorer, someone like Lee Stempniak (low end) or Radim Vrbata (high end), or someone in between. Either way you get production for less money, less commitment, and get to keep the cheap future star.

Problem is I don’t see Faulk being available. One of the best D in the league, won’t turn 25 until 2017, and locked down for pennies for four more years? Only way he gets moved is if he wants out IMO. Nurse + or the 2016 1st + won’t be enough otherwise.

If that pick is top 3, only a king’s ransom makes sense. I value it more highly than Nurse, and I really like Nurse. Problem is I don’t think any team will be interested in parting with the necessary king’s ransom, as so many recent drafts have shown.

Years ago a team called the Hartford Whalers traded away a 21 year old defenceman who had some ups and downs in his first two season for a veteran player who could help them out in the immediate future. I’d bet that organization wished it never traded Chris Pronger away for a quick fix in Brendan Shanahan (not to take anything away from Shanny’s contribution to hockey).

I see a similar deal if we traded Nurse away. He has all the tools and is a smart fellow that has learned the game through fire (20 minutes a night as a 20 year old!). Nurse should be a game stopper in any trade unless McDavid or Ekblad is coming back.

Trading any of the former 1st rounders is tough to swallow for many fans. We’ve been told that these are the guys to bring us out of the shadows and into the spotlight for years now. And if you look at each of them on their own merits they appear to be the right building blocks. But the fact remains, it doesn’t matter who the team trades as long as their are more wins than loses on the other side of the deal and the deal itself isn’t seen as a lose (a la the Satan deal.) I betcha prior to the Pronger deal with St. Lou, that if you asked the majority of Oilers fans if they were in favour of trading Eric Brewer, you would’ve been met with a big “hell no!”

At the end of the day though, you ‘re right. We have to look at the potential of young players as trading assets if we want to move things forward. Luckily, (or unluckily depending on who you talk to) Chia is not against moving a significant building block if he feels the end result will make the team better.

A few years ago, I honestly thought the team would only start to compete once the trio of Schultz, Klefbom and Marincin had established themselves. Solid, all-around defencemen are that important in today’s NHL. Now, we might be pinning our hopes to Klefbom, Nurse and Reinhart for the long-term. But if one of them and a few other pieces can be used to speed up that development of the team as a whole, it needs to be done.

I actually like the suggestion made by James Tanner over at hockeybuzz in his most recent article. Trade the 1st this year for a top-pairing d-man before the rest of the league realizes that this team is actually a lot better (healthy) on paper than it has performed on ice. His argument for this, injuries and PDO. Once both start to normalize the league is going to wake up to this team and be legitimately afraid.

To go back to the top prospects game last night, their interview with the Vancouver exec had him mentioning approximately 15 players they identified with Top-6 F/Top-4 D talent.

LT, we constantly go back to the notion of Gare Joyce’s “Top-10s” with that being the criteria. I know its early, but is Vancouver out to lunch with their 15 Top-10s? I think last year you flagged 11, and that was supposed to be a great year.

I absolutely agree that anything should be on the table, but in Nurse’s case specifically, I would need an EXTREMELY good player coming back. This is because I see him as an extremely good prospect. As close to a CFP that there is currently in the NHL.

Not to mention that if you get a “number 2ish” defenseman back for him and you’re Chia, you are probably risking that it’s your “Milbury Moment”, and nobody in GM circles wants one of those.

Oh, and LT, thanks to you and Lt. Eric for playing Laura Branigan’s “Gloria” on your show the other day. Since I listened to the podcast, it has been in my brain constantly. It is evil, evil stuff.

HiddenDarts: I absolutely agree that anything should be on the table, but in Nurse’s case specifically, I would need an EXTREMELY good player coming back. This is because I see him as an extremely good prospect. As close to a CFP that there is currently in the NHL. Not to mention that if you get a “number 2ish” defenseman back for him and you’re Chia, you are probably risking that it’s your “Milbury Moment”, and nobody in GM circles wants one of those.Oh, and LT, thanks to you and Lt. Eric for playing Laura Branigan’s “Gloria” on your show the other day. Since I listened to the podcast, it has been in my brain constantly. It is evil, evil stuff.You will pay for this!!!

One can hope Nurse will be Pronger’s equal defensively, but I can’t ever see it happening offensively.

I’m trying to understand what people want to do here.

– Add 2 veteran high-end defencemen
– but don’t trade Hall, Eberle or RNH. Or Draisaitl.
– or Nurse or Davidson or Klefbom
– or the 2016 1st
– maybe try to sign a UFA like Byfuglien
– but don’t overpay per year or term.

Okay, good luck then. This isn’t Settlers of Catan, you can’t trade Schultz, Fayne and Gryba for Shattenkirk.

The Faulk-like add, whoever it (hopefully) turns out to be, is the critical one.

Hamonic is an excellent defenseman, and sure, add him if at all possible, but the Oilers have two similar(ish) players in waiting, in Klefbom and Nurse. They have nothing, zero, nada, in the way of developing true offensive D.

It’s almost tragic that a team with this ridiculous an assemblage of top-of-the-draft young forwards is bottom of the league in scoring from the D. Nothing else they could add right now would make as much difference as a potential 50 point D-man. It’s the only thing I’d give up a core piece for.

G Money: Unless you have the specific 1D in mind (there’s only six or seven legit 1D in the whole league) that you can build a champion around and is available by trade:STOP BUILDING ROSTERS BASED ON A 1D MODEL.The Oilers are NOT getting a 1D, and building a roster based that assumes you have prime-Chara, prime-Doughty, or prime-Keith does not work.What the Oilers do have is three elite C. You can build a champion without a 1D if you have 3 elite centres.Trade one of Nuge, McDavid, or Draisaitl and you DON’T get one of those six or seven top notch defensemen back, and what you’ve built is a roster that will forever make the playoffs and will never be a contender.Picking the right build strategy is critical to whether this team moves long-term up 10 spots (to perennial playoff contention) or up 20 spots (to perennial championship contention). Choose wisely.

What’s the last team to win the Cup without a #1 d-man? Carolina I guess.

Even if you don’t want a #1 d-man, simply a very skilled d-man, what’s the acquisition cost on that? Nashville wanted RNH for Jones? Wow. Jones isn’t close to a #1 d-man.

I agree. I think 4 solid, young, top 4 guys is the way to go. In a year or two one or more may develop into a true #1. The Oilers have a solid core of left dmen in place right now. My depth chart would be Klef, Sek, Davidson, Nurse, Reinhart. That is based on their play this season. Nurse could move up this chart rapidly in the next 2 years. I think one easy step to balancing out the righty, lefty thing is to trade one of these guys for a right dman of similar age and skill set. Maybe Klefbom for Hamonic or Nurse for Trouba, something like that. The hard part will be acquiring a second right dman for a forward. I think Eberle is the most tradeable, if Hopkins and Hall are off the table, but his contract may make it difficult to get a top 4 guy. I am not crazy about trading the pick because this roster is going to get more expensive every year and they are going to need some cheaper, young skilled players. Trading one of our 6 million dollar men also leaves us cap space to sign whatever dman they acquire through trade or free agency.

Hi LT, I to like that list of player mix and would believe we would have a chance of seeing playoff hockey. My concern would be depth when injuries happen. It’s to difficult to go all season without a couple of significant injuries. Who would be our depth players that can move up and down the line up? We would also need depth in the AHL just to be ready.

never forget the Grier shoulder scream. My mom’s favorite all time Oiler… she said she liked him because he played with determination and had mammoth quads… now that I am an adult I think I get what she was getting at, and it disturbs me.

Here’s my thing- say the OIlers are picking at 4, and it goes Matthews, Puljajaarvi, Laine (in any order), then I would be happy to deal out that 4 pick. Lots of great prospects available still, but digestible if the return is a significant piece that moves the group forward. IF Puljajaarvi or Laine are available, I hope for Nuge or Ebs or Nurse to be the asset heading out. I love those finns, and they are EXACTLY what would be perfect instead of Eberle. Big boys, going to be bigger men. Then you are talking real real danger with Mcdavid and Hall and Drai and (Finn) and Yak. All of them aggressive and competitive and hard to play against (Yak still needs this to be every night- but has the goods). As skilled as Ebs is, he is easy to push around and plays perimeter. Nuge is amazing, but I would take a big man over him to get a D – and I love the idea of Helm at 3C.

dustrock: What’s the last team to win the Cup without a #1 d-man? Carolina I guess.
Even if you don’t want a #1 d-man, simply a very skilled d-man, what’s the acquisition cost on that? Nashville wanted RNH for Jones? Wow. Jones isn’t close to a #1 d-man.

Unsurprisingly, Pittsburgh’s one Stanley Cup was without a 1D either. (Some say they had Letang, but as has been pointed out, he was a rookie playing 5D ice time. He was FAR from a 1D at that point, though he was a solid young player. Kind of what the Oilers could have if they had Nurse playing on the third pairing).

Here’s the thing: you could build the best team in the world and there’s no guarantee you will win a Cup.

Somebody else may have a better team. (See: Battle of Alberta, 1980s)

Injuries or pure bad luck might also play a part.

All you can do is build a legitimate Stanley Cup contender and hope the cards fall your direction. You can do that with three elite C. It’s not done very often because for many teams it’s hard to get even one elite C.

We have three of them.

Failing to use that will be catastrophically stupid.

Trading that incredible competitive advantage away in order to match what every other OK team has is a recipe for mediocrity.

So if the Oilers try to plan around building a contender using a 1D model – which they can fulfill only through a gigantic streak of dumb luck at this point – they will wait until either Nurse develops into one (unlikely), or they’ll just simply miss McDavid’s window.

Get one Top 4 D man, then wait a while and hope the youngsters (Nurse especially, Reinhart ideally) mature into a strong enough core (Sekera, Klefbom, New Guy, Nurse, Davidson, Reinhart, who knows what Fayte has in store for Fayne).

Or get two Top 4 D men, and you don’t have to wait (Sek, Klef, New Guy, New Guy, Nurse, Davidson, Reinhart), the window starts now. The question of course is what you have to give up to get two Top 4 D now.

dustrock: – Add 2 veteran high-end defencemen
– but don’t trade Hall, Eberle or RNH. Or Draisaitl.
– or Nurse or Davidson or Klefbom
– or the 2016 1st
– maybe try to sign a UFA like Byfuglien
– but don’t overpay per year or term.

– Add at least one, preferably two Top 4 D.

– Don’t trade Hall, RNH, Drai, McDavid, Sekera, Nurse, or Klefbom.

– The others should be on the table

– As should the 2016 1st

– UFA is fine, as is offer sheet. UFA means an overpay, either year or term or both.

speeds: Maybe, but it’s worth asking whether they should move the pick before Eberle, if that’s the choice.The pick will be under team control for 7 years, way cheaper vs. Eberle, a UFA in 3 years.

I think Eberle before the first is the way to go.

Also, I really like Nurse, but if you can get a Hamonic for him and you believe that Nurse’s upside is as a good to great all around player aren’t you just speeding up the team development process without giving up much upside? Further, any upside you might be giving up has to be balanced against any downside risk you are also foregoing.

The issue that I have with trading e.g. Nurse for Hamonic is that, though (as a result of looking at him as a trade target) I’ve become a big fan of Hamonic – the reality is that while he is unquestionably an all-around top pairing guy, he is not a dominant 1D.

So now you have Sek-Ham-Klef as your top 3 guys in the short term, which is unquestionably an upgrade in the short term, but in the longer term, you’re still left with looking for a top notch guy to fill that fourth spot at a level commensurate with where most expect Nurse to get to within a couple of years.

If you know where that next guy is coming from (for example, if Chia has deals in the works where he can get, say, two of Hamonic, Shattenkirk, Vatanen, Big Buff), then you only need to keep two of [Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse]. One of them becomes expendable, and yeah, maybe Nurse has the most trade value.

But if you’re only bringing in one new guy, then trading Nurse means you’re creating a weakness to fill a weakness, which to my mind is more motion than progress.

I think the reason you don’t trade Nurse is he’s both cheap and hard to replace (isn’t all this fuss about trying to pry a defenceman out of somebody?)

If a Faulk is what is needed, then it’s an Eberle that has to be moved, because there’s 12 men on that “balance” lineup, and one of them will be getting $10M. You don’t keep Nurse because he’s shiny, it’s because he’s reasonable value for now, and will be an in-house replacement for Andrej down the road, as somebody mentioned yesterday. Hoping to find Sekera’s replacement via free agency is just…. well, hopeful. And tough to fit into a salary structure with a superstar in it.

Fine with moving the first, fine with moving quality. Not comfortable – yet – with moving D out the door when it’s been the biggest hole and problem to fill.

dustrock: I’m trying to understand what people want to do here.
– Add 2 veteran high-end defencemen
– but don’t trade Hall, Eberle or RNH. Or Draisaitl.
– or Nurse or Davidson or Klefbom
– or the 2016 1st
– maybe try to sign a UFA like Byfuglien
– but don’t overpay per year or term.

I think we are on the same page. I was looking at answering a portion of LT’s question: ” If you could trade this year’s first round pick, Darnell Nurse and Griffin Reinhart for Faulk and Hamonic, would you?”
I agree you need to get two D or its more of a lateral move, but at some point now has to be important.
I am also a basketball fan and I look at what the Celtics did a few years back when they gave up some youth and a top 5 draft pick in the same summer to land both Ray Allen and Garnett to go with Pierce and some other serviceable pieces. Although maybe not the best example as Allen and Garnett were older than ideal at the time, I think if you want to turn north in a meaningful way you may have to give up some of the future and its potential.
I think myself and others sometimes fall in love too much with potential and the future and forget the value of what is known and the present.

I agree that we don’t want to trade players who could potentially be a franchise cornerstone (ie. Darnell Nurse) but really guys at some point we can’t just trade magic beans for good players. As it has been stated many times here you are not going to get the (Weber’s/Doughty’s/Keith’s/Subban’s/ Hedman’s….etc) for anything short of Taylor Hall or Connor McDavid.

With that said, as much as love a player like Darnell Nurse, he won’t reach his potential for at LEAST another 2-3 years. I’m sorry but the Oilers don’t have that long to wait (ie. end of McDavids ELC). Realistically while nobody wants to trade Nurse for Hamonic, I do that trade tomorrow. Hamonic right now is a proven number 2 defenceman who can impact our team TODAY. Now if you are going to do that you absolutely need to also get an offensive defenceman.

By trading Nurse (and even that may not be enough) and say a second or third round pick you still have assets such as Yakupov/Eberle/1st round pick etc..) to get a powerplay quarterback. Now I don’t know if that’s Shattenkirk, Faulk …..whoever (ie. 1st round pick/Yakupov for Faulk) that’s for Chiarelli to figure out.

All I know is if we ever want to turn the dial here we need to get established/proven NHL defensemen and not continually be waiting on our defensive prospects to ripen.

On a side note last time I checked good GM’s trade from strength and I believe that with the maturation of Davidson and the potential of Reinhart (though not as good a prospect as Nurse) we have about 2 million LH shot D that I think would make Darnell Nurse a realistic trade chip. Just to clarify I’m a huge fan of Nurse, I just think that with Davidson growing like he has this year and the 80 other LH D in our system this should be an avenue that Chia explores.

The issue that I have with trading e.g. Nurse for Hamonic is that, though (as a result of looking at him as a trade target) I’ve become a big fan of Hamonic – the reality is that while he is unquestionably an all-around top pairing guy, he is not a dominant 1D.

So now you have Sek-Ham-Klef as your top 3 guys in the short term, which is unquestionably an upgrade in the short term, but in the longer term, you’re still left with looking for a top notch guy to fill that fourth spot at a level commensurate with where most expect Nurse to get to within a couple of years.

If you know where that next guy is coming from (for example, if Chia has deals in the works where he can get, say, two of Hamonic, Shattenkirk, Vatanen, Big Buff), then you only need to keep two of [Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse].One of them becomes expendable, and yeah, maybe Nurse has the most trade value.

But if you’re only bringing in one new guy, then trading Nurse means you’re creating a weakness to fill a weakness, which to my mind is more motion than progress.

Question for you:

Would you rather have a dominant 1D (say Subban) at $9million or a pretty good 1D at just under $4million?

Because while I like Hamonic, what I especially like is his contract… it gives me hope that we will be able to ice a competent D corps while hanging on to all of our shiny forwards.

Forecasting who would be what depth defender on a different team, reminds me of when I decided to upgrade the carb on my Dodge 383. I talked to guys at all the speed shops in town, got a consensus on what I should do, and that damned thing never ran as good as when it had the stock carb on it. And I was out several hundred dollars to boot.

G Money: – Add at least one, preferably two Top 4 D.– Don’t trade Hall, RNH, Drai, McDavid, Sekera, Nurse, or Klefbom.– The others should be on the table– As should the 2016 1st– UFA is fine, as is offer sheet. UFA means an overpay, either year or term or both.

Yeah, this mirrors my thoughts exactly. I was just making an observation about some people who seem to cringe at the thought of giving up actual good players or overpaying on a UFA.

The tricky thing is using McDavid’s ELC as much as possible.

Regarding your point about assembling a perfect team and still not winning the Cup, I agree completely.

I can’t remember if it was here or on HFBoards, but I remember asking “would you rather the Oilers turn into say the Sharks or Blues, where you have a full decade of guaranteed playoffs and good to great performances, but no Cup, or 1 Cup win with this core and otherwise unimportant, a la the Hurricanes?”

And I was shocked at the overwhelmingly majority of fans who wanted the Cup. For me, I’d rather be the Sharks. At least every year we know we’d be competitive.

hunter1909: All this talk of trading away players both the team and fan base spent seedless angst acquiring makes me want to Decimate the entire Lowetide Blogroll of posters, Roman Army style. Here’s How it Works:One in ten posters get taken out back and shot in the back of the head.

“If you could trade this year’s first round pick, Darnell Nurse and Griffin Reinhart for Faulk and Hamonic, would you? I think that is the kind of drastic action required by Chiarelli before fall.”

Yes, I would do this, as painful as it would be to do. Many times LT has talked about balance, and the Oilers roster lacks talent and balance.

These days though, I am not sure this year’s first round pick, Darnell Nurse and Griffin Reinhart gets you Faulk and Hamonic unless it’s Mathews.

Question back – what if the cost was Nuge, and Reinhart for Faulk plus, and Nurse for Hamonic? Would you do it then if, say, the plus was Rask leaving Rask as your third line centre behind Leon and McDavid?

Malkin (22)
Crosby (21)
Backstrom (22)
Stamkos (19)
Toews (23)
Duchene (22)
Draisatl (22)
one of the best over avg of the group!

This is the first time I have wanted to walk up and slap someones mom!

I agree, we should absolutely say Draisaitl is a top 10 player in the NHL. Except he isn’t. and sample size matters.

Also, we should disregard how good Faulk actually is when considering trading a very good player for him.

You can get pissed when people suggest trading Hall, but when the ask is Doughty, context becomes important.

Faulk is elite, cheap, and would make this team infinitely better. Draisaitl is very, very good, and likely the level of player the Oilers would need to trade or atleast offer, without getting hung up on.

Get off your high horse, your opinion is no more valuable than dustrock’s.

I said it was painful to type! And I know G Money is pumping 3 elite Cs, and I absolutely understand the value there. But #1 D-men are rare too, and Faulk fits the “who is going to absolutely break out and be a #1 d-man for the next 10 years” better than maybe anyone else.

If we didn’t have McDavid, we couldn’t trade Draisaitl. I don’t want to trade Draisaitl, he’s probably my favorite Oiler right now.

But I really, really like Faulk. And I dream about a Klefbom-Faulk top pairing for the next 10 years.

Long time lurker here, but have never joined the discussion, until this post.

I agree with everything you said Lowetide.

I will say this, I’ve only lived in Edmonton for about 5 years, but I’ve followed the Oilers as a fan since arriving here, because I never really had a team out west, even though I grew up in northern BC. With that said, it is quite obvious that the Oilers need to make some drastic changes at the end of this season – if they don’t make some big changes this off season, it is going to be tough to keep watching. They brought in Pete to make some big changes and frankly, we haven’t really seen those happen yet. I mean, Reinhart and Talbot were acquired, yes, but they weren’t really acquired with ‘real’ tangible assets. The conversations this season have really started to swing toward trading our big assets. This game has become a defensive game – there is no other way to put it. Our current D core is awful – there is no nice way of saying that either. If we get a good D core for next season, I’ll feel excited to watch the Oil play again, instead of feeling nervous. You shouldn’t feel nervous and anxious when watching hockey, unless your team is tied up in the playoffs in the third period.

Did I miss something? Is Justin Faulk on the trade block or something? Don’t see why Carolina would trade him. Seth Jones just netted Ryan Johansen, I bet Carolina would try to move Hanifan for a similiar return before they moved Faulk.

I’m sorry Lt, love the site but this proposal is a pie in the sky dream. Hamonic sure . . . by Justin Faulk is too good for Carolina to consider trading at this point.

Everyone wanted the Oilers to get two good defenders last year – they got one. They need another two this year, and I bet they only get one again. These guys are just way to hard to obtain. Let’s hope Hamonic comes here without a major sacrifice to the current d core, the Oilers sign another depth guy like Demers and that’s enough to make them competitive.

dustrock: I said it was painful to type! And I know G Money is pumping 3 elite Cs, and I absolutely understand the value there. But #1 D-men are rare too, and Faulk fits the “who is going to absolutely break out and be a #1 d-man for the next 10 years” better than maybe anyone else.

I agree with you on this.

But what’s it going to take to get Faulk out of Carolina? I’m certain they’re aware of his situation too.

I’d suggest the starting point is Hall, but the more likely finishing point is McDavid.

Again, the point here is: go ahead and dream about building a team around McDavid up front and a legit 1D at the back.

But there is no conceivable situation in the next many years that I can see that will deliver that 1D to Edmonton.

So you have to build around the competitive advantage that we do have, which is 3 elite C.

That’s why I’m pumping that path. Because it’s the only realistic path available to the Oilers.

Every other path involves trading an elite forward for a non-elite defenseman, and that’s a permanent likely irrevocable step backwards into mediocrity.

G Money:
What the Oilers do have is three elite C. You can build a champion without a 1D if you have 3 elite centres.

The thing is, fans with a long history have terms in their mental model tuned by “deep learning” on decades. The present state of the CBA tears all this to ribbons, but never mind.

The thing is, it’s no longer possible to have a full plate of ribs on one hand, and a side order of sweet apple pie on the other.

These days, if you choose ribs, you go without pie. If you choose pie, you go without ribs. (Any remaining team with both on their plate won some kind of GM pin-the-tail-on-the-snoring-donkey ultimate grudge match while the lion’s share of their compatriots succumbed to a post-CBA siesta—it won’t be so easy next time.)

This small exclusion-principle factoid will finally sink into the general hockey consciousness in another ten years or so. Meanwhile, this latent drunk-deep desire to have it both ways is a pox upon clear thinking.

Justin Faulk is a nice offensive defenseman, but there’s a TON of chaos in his game.

His HSCA60 5×5 has never been below 12.
Career HSCF%Rel 5×5 is -1.18 (-5.52 this year).
This season, Carolina’s HSCF% 5×5 is 48.79 with Faulk on the ice and 54.31 when he’s off the ice.
(stats from war-on-ice)

On the HERO chart (Own The Puck), he’s almost off the “high event” scale.
CA60 is at “bottom pairing” level.

BTW, a question to those from last/this thread pondering Japan and the recent announcement of their NIRP.

Why does anyone look at Japan as a lesson in economics?

Japan is suffering from a generation-long drop in population growth, a result of non-replacement levels of childbirth (common to pretty much all developed nations) plus a longstanding and unfortunately rather xenophobic immigration policy.

The second derivative of their growth i.e. the annual growth rate trend turned negative in the late 70s, shortly before the real estate bust – and I do not think the constant fears of deflation since are a coincidence.

Their working age population started shrinking somewhere in the 1990s, and the actual population has also been shrinking for most of the last five years now. Unless something culturally changes in a big way, Japan, the nation as we know it now, is at the early stages of disappearing.

This is why you get an economy that is constantly fighting deflation and recession … yet somehow manages a stellar 3.5% unemployment rate.

Personally, I think the unemployment rate – though it is rightly categorized as a trailing indicator economically – may still be a more critical measure of what’s actually happening in an economy than GDP growth or inflation rates.

Which gets back to my original question – there seems to be little parallel between what is happening, or why, in Japan and what is happening almost everywhere else.

Other than informing immigration policy, not sure there are many economic lessons – optimistic or pessimistic – to be drawn.

Yes trade Eberle, not the pick. Everyone here is suggesting Nurse for Hamonic. My take is Klef is better than Nurse right now but Nurse has the higher upside. I think the majority of people here have said the same thing. I would trade Klef for Hamonic ( similar skill, upside and contract). It is a sideways move but helps balance the pairings. if you think Klef is a little better get them to throw a prospect or draft pick in.

G Money:
BTW, a question to those from last/this thread pondering Japan and the recent announcement of their NIRP.

Why does anyone look at Japan as a lesson in economics?

Japan is suffering from a generation-long drop in population growth, a result of non-replacement levels of childbirth (common to pretty much all developed nations) plus a longstanding and unfortunately rather xenophobic immigration policy.

The second derivative of their growth i.e. the annual growth rate trend turned negative in the late 70s, shortly before the real estate bust – and I do not think the constant fears of deflation since are a coincidence.

Their working age population started shrinking somewhere in the 1990s, and the actual population has now also been shrinking for most of the last five years now.Unless something culturally changes in a big way, Japan, the nation as we know it now, is at the early stages of disappearing.

This is why you get an economy that is constantly fighting deflation and recession … yet somehow manages a stellar 3.5% unemployment rate.

Personally, I think the unemployment rate – though it is rightly categorized as a trailing indicator economically – may still be a more critical measure of what’s actually happening in an economy than GDP growth or inflation rates.

Which gets back to my original question – there seems to be little parallel between what is happening, or why, in Japan and what is happening almost everywhere else.

Other than informing immigration policy, not sure there are many economic lessons – optimistic or pessimistic – to be drawn.

Thoughts?NYC?Boho?Asia?

bad decision between xenophobic policy choices and the risk of social disorder? Democracy to blame?

I agree, I would rather be the Sharks. Doesn’t mean you won’t win the cup. You give yourself the best chance to win if you put a contender on the ice for 8 or 10 years in a row. The Oilers have a chance to do this with their current group of assets. The management of these assets in the next 5 years will determine if they can build this type of team. Deciding who your 4 or 5 core guys will be through this period is a huge decision. These are the guys who will get the big long term deals so you had better be right. The rest of the top end players will have to be traded for younger, cheaper prospects and picks.That is what the Hawks and now the Kings have done.

Pajamah: I agree, we should absolutely say Draisaitl is a top 10 player in the NHL. Except he isn’t. and sample size matters.

Also, we should disregard how good Faulk actually is when considering trading a very good player for him.

You can get pissed when people suggest trading Hall, but when the ask is Doughty, context becomes important.

Faulk is elite, cheap, and would make this team infinitely better. Draisaitl is very, very good, and likely the level of player the Oilers would need to trade or atleast offer, without getting hung up on.

Get off your high horse, your opinion is no more valuable than dustrock’s.

The small sample were he throws off the toughest defenders in the league like little bitches
or
the small sample size were he makes passes no one should make.
or
the small sample size were he has that Benn-Seguin symbiotic pairing every coach dreams of!

Just so we are clear the first thing defenders do is Defend the net.

The treams that have great HSCA?60 depth make the conf finals!.

J. Faulk (#23 comp .059) 12.33 that would be last on the Panthers.
and #200 of 225

Yes trade Eberle, not the pick. Everyone here is suggesting Nurse for Hamonic. My take is Klef is better than Nurse right now but Nurse has the higher upside. I think the majority of people here have said the same thing. I would trade Klef for Hamonic ( similar skill, upside and contract). It is a sideways move but helps balance the pairings. if you think Klef is a little better get them to throw a prospect or draft pick in.

– Good lord: Klef for Harmonic doesn’t move the needle. You need to replace Klef’s minutes.

– You do that, and you still need two more D’s

– I wouldn’t love Nurse for Harmonic, but I could talk myself into it, because of the three years of Harmonic as top-3, team is better now vs 3 years for Nurse to hopefully develop into Harmonic+

G Money:
BTW, a question to those from last/this thread pondering Japan and the recent announcement of their NIRP.

Why does anyone look at Japan as a lesson in economics?

Japan is suffering from a generation-long drop in population growth, a result of non-replacement levels of childbirth (common to pretty much all developed nations) plus a longstanding and unfortunately rather xenophobic immigration policy.

The second derivative of their growth i.e. the annual growth rate trend turned negative in the late 70s, shortly before the real estate bust – and I do not think the constant fears of deflation since are a coincidence.

Their working age population started shrinking somewhere in the 1990s, and the actual population has also been shrinking for most of the last five years now.Unless something culturally changes in a big way, Japan, the nation as we know it now, is at the early stages of disappearing.

This is why you get an economy that is constantly fighting deflation and recession … yet somehow manages a stellar 3.5% unemployment rate.

Personally, I think the unemployment rate – though it is rightly categorized as a trailing indicator economically – may still be a more critical measure of what’s actually happening in an economy than GDP growth or inflation rates.

Which gets back to my original question – there seems to be little parallel between what is happening, or why, in Japan and what is happening almost everywhere else.

Other than informing immigration policy, not sure there are many economic lessons – optimistic or pessimistic – to be drawn.

Thoughts?NYC?Boho?Asia?

I don’t disagree with your thoughts, but I do think there are two reasonable points to draw that might diverge somewhat from your conclusions:

-there are plenty of lessons to be learned here, but primarily from the standpoint of What Not To Do. Krugman’s famous liquidity trap example from, what, 1998? is an example of things Japan avoided doing from a policy standpoint to its eventual peril: two lost decades.

-you’re right to focus on demographic decline and Japan’s immigration policy as primary drivers for low growth, but what often gets overlooked is labour productivity. Any economy can overcome a declining population with off-setting gains in labour productivity of a sufficient scale. I haven’t lived in Japan since 2009, but potential productivity gains were everywhere you looked. I mean, just let women do actual work and return to the work force after having kids, that’d be a huge boost.

Immigration in Japan is funny. A few years ago the auto makers were running low on guys for the shop floor, so they decided if they couldn’t get enough help locally, and if they couldn’t bear foreigners they’d re-import ethnic Japanese from Latin America. Before you knew it, there was Jose Tanaka living in Nagoya, working down at the factory. Great solution!

Except the neighbours got all worked up about that funny smelling food! And show up on time! And “that’s life” is not a good response to an assembly line accident! And what is with that sensual dancing those people are doing that make me feel so uncomfortable!

I think we can all look at this and immediately think “David Clarkson”.

But in last season’s UFA market, who was terribly overpaid? I see a defenceman like Franson, and in previous years someone would have overpaid him. He ended up with a two-year $6.65m deal.

We can guess a pretty flat cap, so very few teams are going to have a ton of cap space to throw at UFAs. Unless the Oil are going after a #1D, they will be able to add some complementary players at a reasonable cost. As LT notes above, if Nuge nets you a 2 RHD, and you can sign a veteran two-way C with size, then it’s at least worth considering.

I do believe people on this blog have forgotten just how good Connor McDavid is now and will be in a year or two. He upends everything and unlike the Penguins we currently have one (maybe two-three if someone slides from C – wing) horses who are capable of running at his pace.

The big Pacific teams who love the big body possession game have a lot of miles on them and are aging fast. Calgary, Arizona and the Oilers are not and goaltending is a giant question mark for two of those three teams.

The current record of the Oilers is not an indication of their true value. I am not being a blinded fool or what have you by saying this either, I’m looking at a team that has been playing without two of their better defensmen, recently their number 1/2C and a scoring talent that comes along once every 10-15 years, which has helped them top the league for significant man games lost due to injury. This has contributed to them losing a pile of close one goal games recently.

Are you seriously trying to convince me that if Klefbom, Davidson, McDavid and Nuge are all in the lineup they don’t have a very good shot at winning the Anaheim, Tampa, Florida, Dallas or San Jose games all of which were decided by one goal or in a shoot out?

Everyone needs to chill out, step away from the ledge and remember that in 4 or so ish days Connor will be back. The light at the end of the tunnel will begin to shine over the next couple of months

flea: Did I miss something? Is Justin Faulk on the trade block or something? Don’t see why Carolina would trade him. Seth Jones just netted Ryan Johansen, I bet Carolina would try to move Hanifan for a similiar return before they moved Faulk.

– I’ll take the other side of that trade. The marginal improvement between the benefit of a 3rd elite C is far less than the marginal improvement of getting a 28 minute a game muncher and 2C (or 3 Sekera’s playing 22 minutes each, and 2 C)

– 3 elite C don’t get to play 20 minutes each: it is a sub-optimal team construction.

– I’d love to be wrong, but I don’t see a balanced roster intact long-term cap wise with 3 elite C

Chill out, dude. I’m suggesting I would trade Draisaitl painfully for the guy I think would be the best chance at grabbing a true “#1 d-man” for the next 10 years, because we aren’t getting Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, etc.

That’s the level of trade it would need to be for me to trade Draisaitl. I’m entertaining the possibility.

Faulk plays highest QoC on the Canes, and most DZ starts. He’s got a 52%CF and a 99.0 PDO. 56.9 IPP (10th in the league for D). He’s 23 years old.

Reading a lot of posters late in the thread saying ‘I am sorry this is speculation’ and such. Folks, if I had rumor, would have linked. We are speculating here, with the general idea being that if you are not willing to trade Darnell Nurse (if the right opportunity arises) then you (PC) are not looking at things properly.

If my post gave the you the impression that Faulk was available, my apologies. I felt pretty certain readers would know I was speaking in general terms.

Bruce McCurdy: Beat me to it, I’ve been reading along, shaking my head frequently, & going “why the Faulk would Carolina trade this guy?” That said, Chiarelli should be fired for not having made the trade for him already.

I think the idea of Faulk came up when we were speculating what it would take to move somebody like RNH or Draisaitl, and LT’s idea of trading strength – Carolina has to have one of the best young D corps in the league. But trading for Faulk is pure fantasy.

This is just killing time when there’s no actual games to watch until Return of the Jedi on February 2nd.

The Oilers have lost 210 games to injury in 50 games played, with 127 of those to top four defenders or top six forwards.

Sad to say the story of the season was being pulled into the boards while killing a penalty, a broken finger turning into a staph infection, a linesman pulling down a player causing a high ankle sprain, a hip injury from a hit into the boards, and an uncalled crosscheck to the ribs.

Chill out, dude.I’m suggesting I would trade Draisaitl painfully for the guy I think would be the best chance at grabbing a true “#1 d-man” for the next 10 years, because we aren’t getting Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, etc.

That’s the level of trade it would need to be for me to trade Draisaitl.I’m entertaining the possibility.

Faulk plays highest QoC on the Canes, and most DZ starts.He’s got a 52%CF and a 99.0 PDO.56.9 IPP (10th in the league for D).He’s 23 years old.

as said above, nothing indicates Faulk is on the move… NOTHING, so we should stop targetting him.

Lowetide:
Reading a lot of posters late in the thread saying ‘I am sorry this is speculation’ and such. Folks, if I had rumor, would have linked. We are speculating here, with the general idea being that if you are not willing to trade Darnell Nurse (if the right opportunity arises) then you (PC) are not looking at things properly.

If my post gave the you the impression that Faulk was available, my apologies. I felt pretty certain readers would know I was speaking in general terms.

Again, I think we’re whale hunting. And for a “whale” who is having a good year this year, but maybe not next.

We don’t need a whale. We just need a couple of decent NHL Dmen. Not an 8 million dollar guy (Faulk next contract), just a couple of 3-4 million dollar guys.

The quality of the team is mostly established at the margins, not at the top. We have learned this the hard way expecting elite players like Hall and RNH to come in and turn this into a playoff team in a year or two.

Where does the talent trail away on the depth chart? Is it after the first pairing, second, or third? Have we got muckers and bubble players on the second line (Oilers last 4 years), third line, or way down on the fourth? Or do we have them on the first line (2008-2009).

Chia needs to focus on this depth to have any sustained success. A whale is still just one guy and if you trade away one of your existing NHL players, you are net better on an individual basis, but the talent trails off at the same point on the depth chart and the team is still exposed for too many minutes every game.

Justin Faulk is about as available as Oliver Ekman-Larsson. Neither is.

Ron Francis is laughing his way to perennial contention. He has Faulk. He has Hanifin. And he has two other rookie D. He has Eric Staal likely leaving, or being forced to agree to a big hometown discount. He has Ward coming off the books.

He is positioned like Chicago when Tallon took over.

Hamonic is worth it, except if his acquisition costs Klefbom or Nurse…which then make it a sideways upside limiting move.

Burns and Hamonic and Shattenkirk should be the targets. San Jose has to decide on Burns this summer. They don’t have a 1st round choice. If they fail again in the playoffs, they may think seriously about getting younger.

And if all three fall though, then one moves into the more risky UFA market and target Byfuglien.

rickithebear: The small sample were he throws off the toughest defenders in the league like little bitches
or
the small sample size were he makes passes no one should make.
or
the smallsample size were he has that Benn-Seguin symbiotic pairing every coach dreams of!

Just so we are clear the first thing defenders do is Defend the net.

The treams that have great HSCA?60 depth make the conf finals!.

J. Faulk (#23 comp .059) 12.33 that would be last on the Panthers.
and #200 of 225

We have our best box protection depth since 06-07.
the facts!
we need to see them together!

Clandening 3rd comp 6.96
6.96 fucking sakes.
he PP qb’s

Oh I don’t Know
Klefbom-Fayne
Davidson-Sekera
Reinhart-Clandening

I have no use for whiny bitches who do not back up there trade ideas with facts!

Otherwise the HF boards stench invades!

No fucking HF clown brain!
That is my High horse.

Ask yourself from a fact point of view if that shit would wash at work!

You might possibly be the most misguided poster I have ever read on this comment section.

You speak ill of Faulk, not willing to see he would instantly become the Oilers best defenseman (were he to become available)

You price HDSCA like it is the be all end all, when its only a small part of what defensemen do.

I’ve yet to see a post where I “whine”. I’ve never actually visited HF boards and this, Copper and Blue, and Cult of Hockey (although sporadically) are the only Oiler related sites I visit.

You keep telling other posters here that they are off base, need to look harder, as if your statistical analysis is second to none. Again, take your thoughts, marry them up to what credible, intelligent hockey people think (i.e. Friedman, MacKenzie, not Hrudey, Remenda) and see if it passes the smell test.

Your analysis is terrible, and you should feel terrible representing it as anything but hackneyed garbage.

I have fun here. I can joke around, I can post my thoughts, but I am no expert. I defer to LT, WoodGuy, G-Money, and many, many others.

G Money:
BTW, a question to those from last/this thread pondering Japan and the recent announcement of their NIRP.

Why does anyone look at Japan as a lesson in economics?

Japan is suffering from a generation-long drop in population growth, a result of non-replacement levels of childbirth (common to pretty much all developed nations) plus a longstanding and unfortunately rather xenophobic immigration policy.

The second derivative of their growth i.e. the annual growth rate trend turned negative in the late 70s, shortly before the real estate bust – and I do not think the constant fears of deflation since are a coincidence.

Their working age population started shrinking somewhere in the 1990s, and the actual population has also been shrinking for most of the last five years now.Unless something culturally changes in a big way, Japan, the nation as we know it now, is at the early stages of disappearing.

This is why you get an economy that is constantly fighting deflation and recession … yet somehow manages a stellar 3.5% unemployment rate.

Personally, I think the unemployment rate – though it is rightly categorized as a trailing indicator economically – may still be a more critical measure of what’s actually happening in an economy than GDP growth or inflation rates.

Which gets back to my original question – there seems to be little parallel between what is happening, or why, in Japan and what is happening almost everywhere else.

Other than informing immigration policy, not sure there are many economic lessons – optimistic or pessimistic – to be drawn.

Thoughts?NYC?Boho?Asia?

The NIRP is shocking for many because the trend for markets under the modern system is “growth always and forever” under very specific criteria. Modest gains have become synonymous with stagnation when in fact they aren’t, but the push is to outpace the fastest growers in the market.

Now, I’m not arguing for Abe-nomics because there’s pretty much nothing Abe is doing there that would be considered right other than it might be less wrong than the favoured alternatives.

But the perception of the economic landscape is what I find most fascinating.

The uncoupling that occurred in some of the major markets in the 70s and 80s which eventually resulted in the mess that emerged first in the Asian banking sector in the 90s and eventually in the NA and European banking sectors in the 2000s to present hasn’t been rectified. Instead the system has found ways to perpetuate itself by selling the idea that certain measures (making readily available credit, flooding markets with liquidity, etc) are effective measures to restore the system, but nobody seems to want to admit that the system is inherently unbalanced.

I suspect that in much the same way that previous iterations of global economic systems had to be redrawn, we are approaching that point again. I doubt it happens this time the way it did previously, with a few of the largest stakeholders essentially drawing it out and letting the remainder of the world participants find their seats on their own.

What I will watch with most interest is the process in China.

They have a vested interest in the status quo, perhaps more so than any other major economic nation in the world, but are seeing an accelerated experiment with capital markets play out in front of them and the levers they’ve been told by the old capital markets to use for this or that problem don’t appear to be working very well. So they have a choice, devise a new system to reward and encourage growth by a different measure, abandon the process altogether and return to a more closed market, or ride it out and try to deflect attention using other means such as xenophobia, conflict, etc.

I haven’t had a chance to read too much about Japan’s NIRP yet, but look forward to it. Nothing quite like watching economists tear their hair out over potholes and fail to notice the looming washed-out bridge ahead.

Anyone else remember how the knock on Brent Burns in Minnesota was that he tried to do too much?

The same being said about Chychrun got me thinking, how often does the guy go supernova (like Burns) and who might an example be of someone who can’t do what he tries to do (Jack Johnson?)?

Curious too, because I’ve heard the same said about Nurse.

Seems to me that maybe the corner Burns turned was using his teammates to get the puck back again. Could also be said, however, that when he went to SJ he was finally able to play with players of comparable skill.

Quinlan:
Anyone else remember how the knock on Brent Burns in Minnesota was that he tried to do too much?

The same being said about Chychrun got me thinking, how often does the guy go supernova (like Burns) and who might an example be of someone who can’t do what he tries to do (Jack Johnson?)?

Curious too, because I’ve heard the same said about Nurse.

Seems to me that maybe the corner Burns turned was using his teammates to get the puck back again. Could also be said, however, that when he went to SJ he was finally able to play with players of comparable skill.

Re: Nurse. Does 6 things, needs to do 3.

Good problem when you need to slow a guy down instead of teaching something in that isn’t there to begin with.

Capital markets in China are beyond opaque and only a relatively small amount of large business balance sheets are financed by public markets in Shanghai, Hong Kong or Beijing. The real money still flows through the People’s Bank of China and is largely allocated by the central or state level governments.

I believe what we are seeing play out in China is fascinating in that much like the 1950-1970’s when you had governments encouraging individual citizens to get involved in equity markets in the Wes the same thing is occurring in China but there is nowhere near the level of transparency and liquidity needed to allow these markets to function correctly.

I’ve read recently that China’s equity markets are a lot closer to a casino than they are to Wall St or Bay St, unfortunately for the central government they encouraged their wealthier and middle class citizens to throw their savings in to this casino. The sad thing about casino’s is that they rely much more on emotion that they do reason and analysis and we are seeing the central government rely on ever more elaborate levers to keep a check on the hair raising volatility that they have seen lately driven largely by inexperienced investors shifting with each news story.

Japan has long since crossed the event horizon in the this respect having a debt to GDP ratio north of 230% (worst in the world). No country has escaped default from half this level and Japanese tax revenues are also falling due to demographics that cannot sustain the ever rising debts. Japanese pension funds are the largest holders of Japanese government debt, but these have also have turned from net buyers to net sellers as a result of demographics. Their bond market is – to be somewhat direct – kinda fucked and productivity increases are just pissing against the wind. They will print yen to buy Japanese government bond until the whole damn thing implodes which is the foundation of Kyle Bass’ bet against JGB. The only alternative is for Abe to do the exact opposite of the existing strategy – cut spending, let interest rates rise and deal with the mountain of unsustainable debt they’ve built up. I doubt that happens – nothing in their behavior supports this – they will destroy the currency and issue a new one after they default. Debts that cannot be sustained will be defaulted and there is no escape from this reality outside of Krugman’s fantasy world.

Happy Friday and konichiwa!

G Money:
BTW, a question to those from last/this thread pondering Japan and the recent announcement of their NIRP.

G Money: BTW, a question to those from last/this thread pondering Japan and the recent announcement of their NIRP.
Why does anyone look at Japan as a lesson in economics?
Japan is suffering from a generation-long drop in population growth, a result of non-replacement levels of childbirth (common to pretty much all developed nations) plus a longstanding and unfortunately rather xenophobic immigration policy.
The second derivative of their growth i.e. the annual growth rate trend turned negative in the late 70s, shortly before the real estate bust – and I do not think the constant fears of deflation since are a coincidence.
Their working age population started shrinking somewhere in the 1990s, and the actual population has also been shrinking for most of the last five years now. Unless something culturally changes in a big way, Japan, the nation as we know it now, is at the early stages of disappearing.

This is laughable.

I’m wondering what Japan hopes to do when China eventually decides to make amends for, among other things, certain events which took place in 20th century Nanking.

One internal move can address the size in the top 6 on the wing move – have RNH center Hall with Drai on RW. That will also free us up to move Eberle (bigger contract and more valuable than Yak).

Hard to imagine but yes LHD is an area of abundance with Sekera, Klef, Nurse, Reinhart and Davidson. I’m comfortable with Sekera playing RHD on the 2nd pair with either Nurse or Reinhart next year. I like all of these guys but someone has to be moved to provide playing time and balance. Klef seems to be able to handle top pair and has a great contract so I’d be reluctant, the GM just brought in GR so that’s unlikely, Davidson will have a sweet contract. Nurse has potential. So that’s it – is Nurse’s “potential” so great that he is untradable? I’d say no for the right guy – but the “right guy” is rare as hen’s teeth.

Will be interesting to see how Chia works through the first week of July.

Lowetide:
Reading a lot of posters late in the thread saying ‘I am sorry this is speculation’ and such. Folks, if I had rumor, would have linked. We are speculating here, with the general idea being that if you are not willing to trade Darnell Nurse (if the right opportunity arises) then you (PC) are not looking at things properly.

If my post gave the you the impression that Faulk was available, my apologies. I felt pretty certain readers would know I was speaking in general terms.

I’m following you more now, Faulk is the sort of return you’d like to see for a guy like Nurse.

I’d love to see the Oilers add two top 4 defenceman before the start of next season. I might go so far as to label them fringe contenders if they did. I just don’t see it happening. If they can get Hamonic for futures and maybe a few beating hearts outside of the core, that would be a huge coup. I just don’t see them getting someone else. Maybe for Nuge, but for me that is a 2017 transaction, not a 2016 one. Subtract Schultz, Fayne, Nikitin, Ference, Gryba, add Hamonic and a depth defenceman

Klefbom – Sekera
Nurse – Hamonic
Davidson – Demers
Reinhart

It’s not great but it’s better. They have guys that can potentially play up the lineup (eg the bottom three left guys are interchangable) And you leave Sekera on the right side where he does ok. Might have to sign one more depth guy for coverage, or maybe Mark Fayne is still around. Who knows – it’s still a bit of a mess.

I walked home one day and found a $20 bill laying on the sidewalk with no one around to claim it. Found money. I feel like some people would stubbornly walk that road endlessly expecting to find another $20…until they starve to death.
I really enjoy your blog LT. Provides a great forum for discussion but when I see don’t trade anybody from certain posters here …well, temp rises and smoke comes out of my ears.

If Gretzky got traded, McDavid can even be traded…Katz can even be replaced ! Get ready for true turn north next year when shiny things are converted to a real team. I’m looking forward to it.

dustrock: One can hope Nurse will be Pronger’s equal defensively, but I can’t ever see it happening offensively.

I’m trying to understand what people want to do here.

– Add 2 veteran high-end defencemen
– but don’t trade Hall, Eberle or RNH.Or Draisaitl.
– or Nurse or Davidson or Klefbom
– or the 2016 1st
– maybe try to sign a UFA like Byfuglien
– but don’t overpay per year or term.

Nurse is going to be a top 4 defenseman in 2-3 years time.
Not today.
He most likely (from his trajectory in junior) will be a excellent shut down D. Maybe.
Not much in the way of offensive chops here.
We most likely picked the wrong defenseman in his draft.

Hamonic is already an established RHD in the bigs. A good one to be sure.
If people are so blind as to not see the value in trading from a position of strength (LHD)to address the biggest weakness on the team (RHD) because of some crazy idea Nurse is the next Chris Pronger? Then I really don’t have much to say to you.

We have Klefbom and Sekera for years. We need a value contract in the next LHD spot (Davidson).
The play here is simple if Snow and St Loius play ball.
Hamonic for Nurse
Eberle or Yak+++ for Shattenkirk

We have a solid affordable top 4 defense core
Draft one of the Finns or replace Ebs or through Free agent wire.
Or we can wait till 2019 when Nurse unleashes his inner Doughty …

I’m pretty much baffled why people continue to put GR as a #7 dman at best next year. Did they watch the NAS game? That is what you will see with more and more regularity as he gains experience. Air tight defense and the ability to jump into the play on offense when the opportunity arises.

Nurse really (and I mean really) needs to go to the AHL for the rest of the season and playoffs for his own good. He’s sinking like a stone and getting the Drai treatment is good for him. He now sees how much work he needs to do to be an NHL regular after getting his teeth kicked in every night since Jan 1. Let him develop in Bakersfield and get in a good summer of work – then he’ll be ready for 3rd pair with a steady vet next year. Yes he has talent – but it’s no doing him or the team any favors getting destroyed every night.

AsiaOil:
I’m pretty much baffled why people continue to put GR as a #7 dman at best next year. Did they watch the NAS game? That is what you will see with more and more regularity as he gains experience. Air tight defense and the ability to jump into the play on offense when the opportunity arises.

Nurse really (and I mean really) needs to go to the AHL for the rest of the season and playoffs for his own good. He’s sinking like a stone and getting the Drai treatment is good for him. He now sees how much work he needs to do to be an NHL regular after getting his teeth kicked in every night since Jan 1. Let him develop in Bakersfield and get in a good summer of work – then he’ll be ready for 3rd pair with a steady vet next year. Yes he has talent – but it’s no doing him or the team any favors getting destroyed every night.

I think Reinhart will be more than No. 7 for sure next season (and later this), but that brings us back to trading one of the LHs. I rank them (long term)

1. Klef
2. Nurse
3. Reinhart
4. Davidson

plus of course Sekera. Edmonton could wait on all of them, surrendering (possibly) year two of McDavid. I do not think they do it, suspect we see additional defenders with more experience. All of those lefties are going to play in the NHL, will all of them play in Edmonton? I do not see it.

Pajamah: The only chance we see Japan and China in another war, is if WW3 breaks out, and then we’d all have larger problems.

The newly rebuilt and developed nations look most likely to go to war in the near future; like India/Pakistan, Japan/China, Iran/Iraq(or else insert anything that includes ultra-violence such as Iran/Israel), and of course the Koreas. Considering this as fact, the jet stream blowing all that nuclear material over to the West Coast of North America among other things will cause widespread panic, sending real estate prices plummeting.

hunter1909: I’m looking forward to Nurse’s number retirement ceremony, where everyone laughs at the early career trade rumors.

For a pussy whipped team like Edmonton to trade away a young Lucic of defencemen…that’s exactly the Messier for Bernie Nichols moment that might finally end it for me lol.

I remember when people thought as highly of Gagner…

Potential is a funny thing. If it not realized or only half realized it makes people look pretty silly. Remember how much potential Shultz had? Man we thought we landed the next Coffee. Or how about Marincin? It’s funny how much we can overvalue people when we see all of their strengths and none of their weaknesses. Theo Pekam comes to mind as well. Nothing like losing and falling over and over to wash all that potential away though.

I think Nurse is a wonderful talent and will be a good defenseman in time, don’t get me wrong. I love his compete and nastiness too. What I’m not sure on is his ability to properly read plays at a fast pace.
He looks very lost sometimes and I know he will learn and get better but unless he’s doing it on the 3rd pairing or in Bako, it’s going to cost us games. Davidson has passed him. That says something.

hunter1909: The newly rebuilt and developed nations look most likely to go to war in the near future; like India/Pakistan, Japan/China, Iran/Iraq(or else insert anything that includes ultra-violence such as Iran/Israel), and of course the Koreas. Considering this as fact, the jet stream blowing all that nuclear material over to the West Coast of North America among other things will cause widespread panic, sending real estate prices plummeting.

I will personally destroy Iran up if they fuck up my home equity line of credit application.

Potential is a funny thing. If it not realized or only half realized it makes people look pretty silly. Remember how much potential Shultz had? Man we thought we landed the next Coffee. Or how about Marincin? It’s funny how much we can overvalue people when we see all of their strengths and none of their weaknesses. Theo Pekam comes to mind as well. Nothing like losing and falling over and over to wash all that potential away though.

I think Nurse is a wonderful talent and will be a good defenseman in time, don’t get me wrong. I love his compete and nastiness too. What I’m not sure on is his ability to properly read plays at a fast pace.
He looks very lost sometimes and I know he will learn and get better but unless he’s doing it on the 3rd pairing or in Bako, it’s going to cost us games. Davidson has passed him. That says something.

I think by pedigree, Nurse has already well surpassed all on that list save Gagner. Marincin, Schultz, “Teddy Peckman” were all depth picks. Gagner and Nurse are top 10 picks.

I doubt we’re overvaluing him as a fan base. I also highly doubt he goes Cam Barker on us. I may be proven wrong over time, but my guess is he becomes a top pairing guy, failing that, a top 4 for quite a long time.

I mean Davidson is 24 and played four years of pro hockey before passing Darnell but I guess that’s still a fair comparison.

I agree that Nurse misses an assignment here or there for sure but that probably is due to him being a rookie playing top pairing minutes on a team saddled with a crazy number of injuries more so than an indication of his inherent ability

haters:
Nurse is going to be a top 4 defenseman in 2-3 years time.
Not today.
He most likely (from his trajectory in junior) will be a excellent shut down D. Maybe.
Not much in the way of offensive chops here.
We most likely picked the wrong defenseman in his draft.

Hamonic is already an established RHD in the bigs. A good one to be sure.
If people are so blind as to not see the value in trading from a position of strength (LHD)to address the biggest weakness on the team (RHD) because of some crazy idea Nurse is the next Chris Pronger? Then I really don’t have much to say to you.

We have Klefbom and Sekera for years. We need a value contract in the next LHD spot (Davidson).
The play here is simple if Snow and St Loius play ball.
Hamonic for Nurse
Eberle or Yak+++ for Shattenkirk

We have a solid affordable top 4 defense core
Draft one of the Finns or replace Ebs or through Free agent wire.
Or we can wait till 2019 when Nurse unleashes his inner Doughty …

I’m down with that. I have been pleading to not trade Nurse, he is big and mean and has most of the attributes I love in a hockey player but you can not tell me this is not a massive improvement next year:

Sekara Shattenkirk
Klefbom Hamonic
Reinhart Clendening/RHD

If the cost to have that defence is Eberle and Nurse and picks/prospects you have to do it.

Now that I think about it. New GM really likes his guy, Nurse probably has more value at the moment. Ahh you guys probably went over this and I missed it because I have been skipping all the trade Nurse posts. 🙂

So if we take Fridge at his word (and there are very good reasons to do this) I think we should also ponder something very quickly.

Hamonic according to the stats is a very capable defensemen but he seems to play a very similar role that Jeff Petry once played.

The guy that let Petry walk for a song is still employed with this team in some capacity and Petry’s replacement (albeit a few years young but on a similar contract) is going to cost the Oilers their most consistent scorer over the last five years.

Just to be crystal fu&$$ing clear here?
I love all Oilers. Cheer like hell for them. Love Nurse Loovvve Nuuugggee…
But man. I’m sick of cheering for the laughing stock of the league .
I’m sick of telling my friends that cheer for other teams ” just you waiting till —- and —- come around !! We are gonna be so fu&$ing good !!” …

I don’t see Cam barker at all. But sry I don’t see Pronger either.
Question. Whom do you move that gives us back a top 4 RHD? Sekera Kelf Nurse Ebs Nuge ?
Those are the pieces that get it done imo.

If I were to choose, I would say you deal from where you are strongest, or have the most depth. That may be C one day very soon, but there is just more value on C’s around the league, so if you could do Ebs straight up, you pull the trigger.

I would move Nurse for Shattenkirk though, and not think twice about it.

I mean Barker < Nurse< Pronger is a pretty large range, but I tend to think he comes out closer to Pronger in the long run.

Sekera, Klef, Davidson as LHD is fine when you could potentially have Shattenkirk, Hamonic, anyone as your RHD.

It shortens the window long term, as in 4-5 seasons, Nurse may surpass Hamonic. Doubt he passes Shattenkirk though, atleast for what Shattenkirk brings skill set wise.

Hamonic according to the stats is a very capable defensemen but he seems to play a very similar role that Jeff Petry once played.

The guy that let Petry walk for a song is still employed with this team in some capacity and Petry’s replacement (albeit a few years young but on a similar contract)is going to cost the Oilers their most consistent scorer over the last five years.

That’s enough to get the blood boiling right there.

Meh. We haven’t seen the trade and don’t know if it is straight up. Chiarelli did (imo) overpay for Reinhart last time dealing with Snow.

Japan has long since crossed the event horizon in the this respect having a debt to GDP ratio north of 230% (worst in the world). No country has escaped default from half this level and Japanese tax revenues are also falling due to demographics that cannot sustain the ever rising debts. Japanese pension funds are the largest holders of Japanese government debt, but these have also have turned from net buyers to net sellers as a result of demographics. Their bond market is – to be somewhat direct – kinda fucked and productivity increases are just pissing against the wind. They willprint yen to buy Japanese government bond until the whole damn thing implodes which is the foundation of Kyle Bass’ bet against JGB. The only alternative is for Abe to do the exact opposite of the existing strategy – cut spending, let interest rates rise and deal with the mountain of unsustainable debt they’ve built up. I doubt that happens – nothing in their behavior supports this – they will destroy the currency and issue a new one after they default. Debts that cannot be sustained will be defaulted and there is no escape from this reality outside of Krugman’s fantasy world.

Happy Friday and konichiwa!

This is great information, thanks. I had no idea their GDP ratio was that out of whack. My god, you’d be flayed alive by the right, left and everyone in between if you ran that kind of ratio here.

I’d do a deal surrounding Eberle for Hamonic, and I don’t think I would hesitate too much about it. Hamonic w/o the trade request wouldn’t have decreased value and there’s the unknown of someone else snatching him up before the price truly drops.

Hamonic is signed to a sweet cap hit and likely wouldn’t be available without the trade request, in which case you’d expect to have to trade Eberle for him anyways. With minor cheap parts involve you either save money on the cap, or add someone useful in addition to TH. This can be a really good deal for us, and makes sense because have term left on their deals, and NYI will likely need to replace Okposo.

it is cheaper to pay def d to prevent HCS at even and Penalty kill.
than to pay Offensive D large sums of cap space to yeild high SC rate
and
racking a lot of empty calorie PP points. (may not yeild a + GD affect)

When the def D give up lesser HSCA and a lower EVGA results.
The kind of Cap hit forwards required are much cheaper than the 5-6M required to outscore shit box protection.

We have had Shite Def D for 8 years.

We are at a point were we can fianlly say that we have ddepth that can protect the house.

I damn sure want the Even puck Moving Talent of a Faulk.
But that embarrqasing bad.
Box protection is the thing we have suffered with.

it is a waste of Millions of forward cap space to break even.

Get me Def D that can move the puck. Sure!
But not at the sake of Defence.
that is a step back!

But you guys hammer Fayne for his Passing.

I read this thinking fayne avg 17.35 a Night in NJ cup Run
7.01 HSCA/60 and .85 EVGA/60.

it is cheaper to pay def d to prevent HCS at even and Penalty kill.
than to pay Offensive D large sums of cap space to yeild high SC rate
and
racking a lot of empty calorie PP points. (may not yeild a + GD affect)

When the def D give up lesser HSCA and a lower EVGA results.
The kind of Cap hit forwards required are much cheaper than the 5-6M required to outscore shit box protection.

We have had Shite Def D for8 years.

We are at a point were we can fianlly say that we have ddepththat can protect the house.

I damn sure want the Even puck Moving Talent of a Faulk.
But that embarrqasing bad.
Box protection is the thing we have suffered with.

it is a waste of Millions of forward cap space to break even.

Get me Def D that can move the puck. Sure!
But not at the sake of Defence.
that is a step back!

But you guys hammer Fayne for his Passing.

I read this thinking fayne avg 17.35 a Night in NJ cup Run
7.01 HSCA/60 and .85 EVGA/60.

That is playoff Defence!

I agree its important, but there needs to be balance. And I’m not sure prior to this season, but our D this year is last in points scored. And not having shooters is one thing, but bad puck moving D men who cant even get the puck to the highly talented forwards.

That’s where I see the largest disconnect is with this team. We need guys like Fayne, and we need a guy like Shattenkirk/Faulk. The puck has to move in the right direction.

We give up the most shots against, and our D help us less than any other 7 man unit in the NHL. We are near the bottom in GA again, and our team sv% is up from .901 to .914.

Can we atleast agree, balance the D with sortie stoppers, and puck movers, and this team will get exponentially better.

Pajamah: I agree its important, but there needs to be balance. And I’m not sure prior to this season, but our D this year is last in points scored. And not having shooters is one thing, but bad puck moving D men who cant even get the puck to the highly talented forwards.

That’s where I see the largest disconnect is with this team. We need guys like Fayne, and we need a guy like Shattenkirk/Faulk. The puck has to move in the right direction.

We give up the most shots against, and our D help us less than any other 7 man unit in the NHL. We are near the bottom in GA again, and our team sv% is up from .901 to .914.

Can we atleast agree, balance the D with sortie stoppers, and puck movers, and this team will get exponentially better.

Weve played
Klefbom
Fayne
Davidson
Sekera
Reinhart
together for 3-4 games this year.

If the Oilers are remotely healthy we are talking about playoffs in a shitty division and arguing whether or not we should apologize for it.

As far as Nurse goes, at some point you have to commit to developing at least one Defenseman with the tools this guy has or you’ll be chasing the mythical #1 guy till the cows come home. Until then do what G says and exploit the one advantage you do have and that’s center depth. So that means for Gord’s sake you don’t trade Nuge. If you have to down the road due to cap constraints then you do it then and hope his value is higher than it is now.

I’m not against trading Nurse, but I prefer the idea of trading Sekera in a couple years.

we like Klefbom on the top pair at 22, what’s to keep Nurse from doing the same? when Klef was 20 he was making his mistakes in OKC, not on the big stage. I remember how great Nurse looked in his first dozen games in Edmonton this season. Send him to Bako for the rest of the season.

trade Eberle for Hamonic, draft Laine–>have him tear the AHL next season. Sign a UFA like Demers/Buff if you can.

People are telling me Draisaitl is going to suffer from McDavids return, they tell me he’s going to get bumped down to the “second or third line” They also tell me to possibly think about trading McDavid.

These are the kind of people you make money from in fantasy hockey. Drai will benefit because of reduced work load, not the other way around lol.

Sometimes I wonder how much research these people do before coming to such curious conclusions.

My two cents this is not fantasy football Justin Faulk is not available either is OEL the cap is not going up. There are going to be players that shake loose. Keep our booty that we have suffered hard and long for get rid of the dead weight use our cap space wisley and we will be more than fine. We have been so decimated by injuries this year to key players that everyone is panicking . Once we get heathy things will take off and with a few more addition’s we are going to be set. We don’t need to trade away our future because maturation and the fall out from other teams getting under the cap will get us to the promised land.

I also think that getting a legit top pair RHD is most important – we need a guy to push everyone but Klef down a notch. Another second pair guy would be nice next year – but may be redundant 2 years from now as Nurse/GR progress. The top pair RHD is key – with offense would be nice – but we may have to settle for a more 2 way guy like Hamonic.

LadiesloveSmid:
I’m not against trading Nurse, but I prefer the idea of trading Sekera in a couple years.

we like Klefbom on the top pair at 22, what’s to keep Nurse from doing the same? when Klef was 20 he was making his mistakes in OKC, not on the big stage. I remember how great Nurse looked in his first dozen games in Edmonton this season. Send him to Bako for the rest of the season.

trade Eberle for Hamonic, draft Laine–>have him tear the AHL next season. Sign a UFA like Demers/Buff if you can.