Thanks for the suggestion, Exhibit. Perhaps for a future sweepstakes, we'll look into only allowing people above a certain number of points to enter. For now, because the site is still new and members have only had since November to accumulate points, we're keeping it open.

Will we recieve any kind of confirmation email? I had to create a new account today since my old one didn't carry over (dunno if it was supposed to), and I've not heard anything about being entered, do we just have your word to go on?

Fuck these nested comments and replies, and fuck not being able to quote. Absolutely ridiculous for a forum setup. I could handle ONE comment nest, and I think it could POSSIBLY increase the readability of some threads, particularly the very large ones (which we no longer have, because 'discussion' here is all but gone, as is our member base). But having 6 layers of comments within comments is absolutely ridiculous. I couldn't even read this entire thread on my phone, it got to a point where there was one word per line, and most words were cut off...THEN it get to a point where there was one character per line and I gave up. That is fucking stupid in this day & age.

"I also enjoy those kinds of forum dynamics. Whether you know it or not, many of the thoughts and ideas expressed here in relation to the forum and the site are indeed discussed at ESP, and some have already resulted in changes and updates, with more still to come."

If all of our input is being looked at and responded to, how about at least making a sticky that lists upcoming changes and changes that we have ALL requested but won't be happening for whatever reason? I understand development time and testing, and I understand not being able to cater to every change we request. But when things we're asking for seem pretty reasonable and pretty simple and are essentially met with, 'Nah, fuck you you insignificant twit' it makes it harder and harder to come back and try to enjoy this forum that I've been a part of for a decade now.

I think the 'hazing' discussion is all wrong. There was never 'hazing.' There was simply not re-answering the 'why does Kirk tape his hands?' question 3 million times a fucking week. If someone signed up just to ask that they were either ignored, their thread turned into a parody, or they were given a lot of shit for asking such a stupid question. In my time here, anyone that has signed up and had a legitimate question has had that question answered. There have been some members here and there that give newbies shit no matter what, but it isn't the norm, its just the personality of a handful of dudes. As was previously mentioned, the General Discussion section is where most of this has taken place. GD is where forum communities thrive. Its where relationships are built over time and people get to know eachother and interact in positive ways. When random newbies sign up to get a question answered they find their way into the related forum section and ask there, and their question is usually answered. When someone decides they want to stick around and join the forum community, they venture into the general section and work on making a place for themselves.

The only time we REALLY fucked with anyone is when they were a troll or in some other way were deserving of absolutely zero respect (scammers, 100% douche bags, etc etc).

All in all, what I'm trying to say is fuck your free guitar sweepstakes. They aren't whats going to build a lasting and useful community here. Whats going to create a lasting community is answering our MANY requests for changes and improvements. You say that many changes have already occurred based on our input...I ask you what changes have occurred? I honestly have not seen any since this new board was created. If changes are in development, let us know...we could stop requesting shit thats already happening and you could earn a little more respect from us. Sure, you have zero obligation to do anything for us. We also have zero obligation to continue putting our time into this community. Whether you like it or not, the guys that have been here since the old boards are the ones that separate this from being a comment section for the website vs. an actual online community where questions can be answered and a knowledge base can be created.

I WANT to like you, I WANT to believe you're doing your best to build this new board. It just really seems like you could give a fuck less about any of us that are trying to give you the fucking answers on how to do that effectively. Because just like Omess said...everything you've done so far has fucking failed. Including your lame responses when you get called out on the failures.

"It means that if we are able to do so, we will. However, since I can't personally promise you exactly what's going to happen, I don't want to say that it WILL happen. That's what I meant by "perhaps". It means that I find it likely that we will, but I tend not to make promises that I can't personally keep. It will require help of others. I think it will happen, but I'm not going to tell you it will until I know it will. Do you understand this?"

This is a respectable standpoint, and I get it. Your douchebag attitude in presenting it is absurd considering your position, but I digress. If you would just say SOMETHING like this from the start, we would PROBABLY be a little easier on you. Instead we just hear, month after of month, 'oh yeah, neat, thats a great suggestion we'll keep it in mind.' It doesn't take long for that response to read more like, 'yeah whatever dude, shut the fuck up already we don't care.' You are the one(s) who opened the door for there to be more involvement from the ESP employees. You are the one(s) who should be working to make this consumer/company relationship an amicable & helpful one.

If YOU aren't the one who can do anything directly about addressing our concerns and getting things fixed, I get that, I really do. I've been in that position many times in my own career and its a shitty spot to be in, believe me, I understand. However, its not exactly difficult to get around that and avoid alienating your entire user base. There could be a sticky or a forum subsection to adress this very issue. In a sticky you could have a bullet-point list of issues that have been brought up and what, if any, action is being taken on them. For instance:

"Nested comments are making this forum difficult to read"

Our development team has been made aware of this issue. We totally agree with you guys and are working to solve this problem. Various solutions are being discussed and we hope to have an answer and a change within the month.

"The 2,000 point requirement for membership is too high and detracts from the community feel of this forum."

While we don't entirely agree with this standpoint, we are looking into this and discussing possible options. We may or may not change this function at some point in the future.

"We miss the old emoticons, the board just isn't right without them"

While we understand what you're feeling, we don't feel that the previous emoticon set is necessary on this board. It would cost us too much to add the old smileys and we don't feel the time and effort is worth it. We apologize for this and hope you can understand.

"Give us a dark/black theme!!!?!?!?!"

We totally get where you're coming from, but for the way this board integrates with our website and its overall theme, we don't feel that a dark theme would be 'right.'

We're not sure what the deal with that is. We'll be working on it as things progress and will hopefully be able to make a change in the near future.

etc etc etc.

In a dedicated forum subsection, users could go their and post their concerns and each thread could have its own responses. This would allow for more community involvement. For instance, I go and make a post saying nested comments are fucking stupid and should be done away with. Member A replies to 100% agree with me. Member B replies to disagree and explain why. Member C replies and says he really doesn't care & why the fuck am I making such a big deal about it. So on and so forth.

Either option doesn't seem too difficult to me and either option would seriously cut down on how disgruntled a lot of us are. We WANT to work with you and make this place better. Obviously we want it to feel more like the old board did, but that is secondary. What we want (and yes, I am being so presumptuous as to speak for pretty much everyone) is a functioning message board that is easy to navigate, read and use. If this thread isn't a perfect example of how that isn't the case, then I don't know what is.

You know, the idea of a forum about the forum seems pretty damn good, and could clear conversations like this one out of areas where people might be looking for other types of info. I like that idea. Thanks Chain.

You know, I think even a temporary compromise of just doing away with the need to 'show additional replies' would work while they figure out how to get rid of nested comments. At least that way every damn time I open the thread I don't have to click through 50 links just to try and find the newest post.

Let's get something straight. New elements are most certainly not going to be implemented. As omess pointed out it's been 5 months. It doesn't take that long to change one thing. They could completely rebuild a forum in that time ( remember how quick the temp board came in)

The best thing to do would be to find a way to implement the new features of the board ( points bullshit and what not) with the old board template.

the 2nd best thing to do would be to take out the reply to comment option, make the user reply to the thread, and re implement the quote option ( most important)