"The new U.S. health care reform law was the best option for providing health insurance to the largest number of people while keeping federal government costs as low as possible, according to an analysis by the RAND Corp., a nonprofit policy think tank."

No it's just we have lives and better things to do on a Saturday night.

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Fingering yourself with an autographed John McCain dildoe in front of a picture of Sarah Palin is not my idea of a good Saturday night. Perhaps in your circles of social inadequacy it is, but I tend to do better things... and can STILL pop on LPSG once in a while.

One of these days, little boy, you'll learn not to try and play the dozens with me. ONE of these days...

Now we know why the wingnuts couldn't come up with a better plan, and still can't.

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The new U.S. health care reform law was the best option for providing health insurance to the largest number of people while keeping federal government costs as low as possible, according to an analysis by the RAND Corp., a nonprofit policy think tank.

Researchers used a specially designed computer model to simulate more than 2,000 different policy scenarios and found that the only alternatives to the new health reform law were all politically difficult because they would have included much higher penalties for noncompliance, lower government subsides, and less generous Medicaid expansion.

Now we know why the wingnuts couldn't come up with a better plan, and still can't.

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All the other plans are better than Obama's because Obama's Healthcare plan fails to do what it's intended to do. It doesn't work.

The new U.S. health care reform law was the best option for providing health insurance to the largest number of people while keeping federal government costs as low as possible, according to an analysis by the RAND Corp., a nonprofit policy think tank.

Researchers used a specially designed computer model to simulate more than 2,000 different policy scenarios and found that the only alternatives to the new health reform law were all politically difficult because they would have included much higher penalties for noncompliance, lower government subsides, and less generous Medicaid expansion.

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What were the 2000 policies scenarios the Rand Corp used?What exactly was the computer model used to simulate the policies?

Did you guys read the entire Analysis? How about some specifics to back the argument up?

According to the RAND Corp website the title of the Analysis is different :

Could We Have Covered More People For Less Cost? Technically, Yes; Politically, Probably Not
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AbstractThe process by which Congress considers legislation rarely affords the public an opportunity to examine how the outcomes might change if components of the law were structured differently. We evaluated how the recently enacted health reform law performed relative to a large number of alternative designs on measures of effectiveness and efficiency. We found that only a few different approaches would produce both more newly insured people and a lower cost to the government. However, these are characterized by design options that seemed political untenable, such as higher penalties, lower subsidies, or less generous Medicaid expansion.
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What authority does the RAND Corp have to deem a healthcare plan "politically difficult" or "politically untenable?" - "because of higher penalities, lower govt subsidies or less Medicaid expansion?

Generous Medicaid expansion was not and is not a requirement for Healthcare reform. In fact 13 States or more are suing the Federal Government for the insanity!

States Sue Over Overhaul That Will Bust State Budgets

States faced with unprecedented declines in tax collections are cutting benefits and payments to hospitals and doctors in Medicaid, the health program for the poor paid jointly by state and U.S. governments. The costs to hire staff and plan for the average 25 percent increase in Medicaid rolls may swamp budgets, said Toby Douglas, who manages the Medicaid program for California, which hasnt joined the lawsuits.

/We face enormous challenges just sustaining our existing program, said Douglas in a March 18 telephone interview. I just dont see states having the capacity to move forward on these changes in this environment.

Obama forced through a mess of healthcare reform bills that won't cut costs and won't reduce the deficit or premiums and in many cases threatens quality of care - Politically untenable due to penalities and subsidies? In light of the garbage that is ObamaCare that is a big laugh.

Obama's healthcare reform mess DOESN'T give healthcare coverage to the most people for the lowest cost to the federal government based on reports from the CBO and CMS. Medicare is insolvent. Adding 34 million additional people is unsustainable while claiming they will cut 500 Billion dollars and begging for over 100 Billion for the accounting gimmick Doc Fix. Obamacare DOESN'T reduce healthcare costs or premiums. Obamacare adds to the deficit.

The RAND Corp Analysis is a sorry attempt at a CYA for Obama that won't SELL Obama's piece of crap ObamaCare...and they know it.

Staff MemberModeratorGold Member

The Rand Corps is a NON partisan organization.
The Heritage Foundation, which you quote as bible is a PARTISAN Organization.
Healthcare reform is now and will remain the law of the land.
Your side lost.
Democrats keep their majorities in 2010 because the Republicans have stupidly let themselves be taken over by Tea Party candidates who don't play well with the indies. Reid, who WAS in trouble, wins because the Nevada Republican Party nominated a radical right wing tea party candidate. Sue Lowden would have won. Angle will lose.

A Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDC) is a special category of think tank. As described by the National Science Foundation [3], FFRDCs are "R&D-performing organizations that are exclusively or substantially financed by the Federal Government and are supported by the Federal Government either to meet a particular R&D objective or, in some instances, to provide major facilities at universities for research and associated training purposes. Each center is administered either by an industrial firm, a university, or another nonprofit institution." The government funds, wholly or in part, activities at approximately 30 Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDCs). FFRDCs typically assist government agencies with scientific research and analysis, systems development, and systems acquisition. They bring together the expertise and outlook of government, industry, and academia to solve complex technical problems. These FFRDCs include the RAND Corporation

Healthcare reform is now and will remain the law of the land.
Your side lost.

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Obama has already admitted that his mess of healthcare reform must be fixed. Obama's mess is unsustainable and does not cut costs. The Dems shot themselves in the foot...the oil crisis, job crisis, weak economy and their self created healthcare mess. Angle is leading the polls against Reid early.

Since when does acknowledging reality require permission? Just sayin'.

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Since they didn't acknowledge reality but in fact, failed to face reality. 13 or more states are suing the Federal Govt over Medicaid expansion that is unsustainable. Penalties and Subsidies didn't make Obama's plan politically viable. In fact, the CBO and CMS have stated that Obama's plan doesn't do what it is intended to do.

What authority does the RAND Corp have to deem a healthcare plan "politically difficult" or "politically untenable?" - "because of higher penalities, lower govt subsidies or less Medicaid expansion?

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"RAND Corporation (Research ANd Development) is a nonprofit global policy think tank ... aims for interdisciplinary and quantitative problem solving via translating theoretical concepts... To date, 32 recipients of the Nobel Prize, primarily in the fields of economics and physics, have been involved or associated with RAND at some point in theircareer." (wikipedia)

Generous Medicaid expansion was not and is not a requirement for Healthcare reform. In fact 13 States or more are suing the Federal Government for the insanity!

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Well, let's see who sued:

"Joining Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum's litigation were attorneys general from Alabama, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington -- all Republicans with the exception of Louisiana Attorney General James D. "Buddy" Caldwell, a Democrat." (Richmond Times-Dispatch)

All Republicans except one state (with a Republican governor)? Well there's a surprise. BTW, the basis of the suits seem to be a question over whether "requiring citizens to buy goods and services" is constitutional, an issue I personally don't understand, since it can be argued that citizens earning a certain income are required to pay taxes (for the "goods and services" we receive from our goverment).

But if that is a valid argument, then what the Republicans are saying in effect is that they REALLY don't support true healthcare reform (not one that'll cover as many people, at least) because they don't believe everyone should be required to have healthcare.

I would strongly urge all members who try and engage Trinity to stop doing so, and put her on ignore. No matter what you say, your response will only be perceived as an invitation by Trinity to spout off some more about how much she hates president Obama.

Gold Member

"Joining Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum's litigation were attorneys general from Alabama, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington -- all Republicans with the exception of Louisiana Attorney General James D. "Buddy" Caldwell, a Democrat." (Richmond Times-Dispatch)

All Republicans except one state (with a Republican governor)? Well there's a surprise. BTW, the basis of the suits seem to be a question over whether "requiring citizens to buy goods and services" is constitutional, an issue I personally don't understand, since it can be argued that citizens earning a certain income are required to pay taxes (for the "goods and services" we receive from our goverment).

But if that is a valid argument, then what the Republicans are saying in effect is that they REALLY don't support true healthcare reform (not one that'll cover as many people, at least) because they don't believe everyone should be required to have healthcare.

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These folks are an off-shoot of the Teabaggers known as Tenthers, after their new-found appreciation of the Tenth Amendment. By the very definition of the word they are deeply reactionary.

I would strongly urge all members who try and engage Trinity to stop doing so, and put her on ignore. No matter what you say, your response will only be perceived as an invitation by Trinity to spout off some more about how much she hates president Obama.

Gold Member

I would strongly urge all members who try and engage Trinity to stop doing so, and put her on ignore. No matter what you say, your response will only be perceived as an invitation by Trinity to spout off some more about how much she hates president Obama.

Gold Member

SHUCKS! Well, I don't put people on ignore, but maybe I'll lay off.... DAMN, I was having so much FUN.

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Trust me: it's the kind of fun that you wind up regretting the next morning

Just because you put someone on Ignore doesn't mean that you cannot access what s/he writes. There's a "view post" option which I'll occasionally use, though very sparingly.

It takes about a week of effort before the urge to respond to trollish lunacy begins to fade and your sense of logical discourse returns to normal. You'll find that this not only improves the quality of the board overall, but gives you a much better feeling about your own contributions to it.

Gold Member

Trust me: it's the kind of fun that you wind up regretting the next morning

Just because you put someone on Ignore doesn't mean that you cannot access what s/he writes. There's a "view post" option which I'll occasionally use, though very sparingly.

It takes about a week of effort before the urge to respond to trollish lunacy begins to fade and your sense of logical discourse returns to normal. You'll find that this not only improves the quality of the board overall, but gives you a much better feeling about your own contributions to it.

It's win/win.

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lol. Like waking up next to someone the morning after and wondering how that happened?? Indeed....

All jests aside, the presence of people like Trinity cause me to sometimes look into things I otherwise would not have bothered to, just to check the validity of their argument. In fact, this thread exists solely because of something he/she/it said in another.

Given the fact that this entity will show up every now and then and post some bit of vitriol, regardless of whether or not we respond, I think it important to offer a rebuttal and an alternative point of view, providing they are topics of interest to me. I don't respond to them all.

lol. Like waking up next to someone the morning after and wondering how that happened?? Indeed....

All jests aside, the presence of people like Trinity cause me to sometimes look into things I otherwise would not have bothered to, just to check the validity of their argument. In fact, this thread exists solely because of something he/she/it said in another.

Given the fact that this entity will show up every now and then and post some bit of vitriol, regardless of whether or not we respond, I think it important to offer a rebuttal and an alternative point of view, providing they are topics of interest to me. I don't respond to them all.

I can't just let 'em "have the floor".

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Jon Stewart took it upon himself to call out Obama...so you are upset over his vitriol. You guys are fine when Stewart takes Republicans to task but can't take it when its over your Obama.

You posted no rebuttal of consequence to anything. You posted a thread supposedly in defense of Obama's healthcare and provided no specifics or a link to the supposed analysis. Not to mention - the Rand Corp is Federally funded and commissioned by Obama's administration to put that crap out there. The crap being - The assumption that the goal of Healthcare Reform was massive expansion of Medicare which is insolvent with existing rolls, the assumption that other healthcare plans were untenable because of higher penalities and lower govt subsidies.

The assumptions made by that article without even the analysis specifics to back it up is ridiculous!

Obama isn't enlisting Anita Dunn for nothing...putting out Rand Corp analysis and making speeches to Seniors about $250 as if that amount of money could actually close the Donut Hole?? and Obama's inadequate high risk pools that are underfunded in his mess of reform...Obama and the Dems are on the ropes trying to SELL a plan that has been determined by the CBO and CMS to fail to cut costs, fail to cut premiums and adds to the deficit.

Fingering yourself with an autographed John McCain dildoe in front of a picture of Sarah Palin is not my idea of a good Saturday night. Perhaps in your circles of social inadequacy it is, but I tend to do better things... and can STILL pop on LPSG once in a while.

One of these days, little boy, you'll learn not to try and play the dozens with me. ONE of these days...

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i'm just telling it lokre it is your the one screwing around on lpsg on a saturday night that speaks for itself. if you can beat taking care of 2 lovely ladies on your boat while watching the sunset give me a call. and that was just the start of the evening.

I'll run circles around you rubberman. I'm the kind of guy that can't evade attention. I can't tell you how many engaged women come hang all over me then go get their fiancee who watching it all to come over to meet me. how embarrising for them, but thats what happens when you have personality, good looks and 20 inch guns. Three things you'll never have.

I thought you were a dj anyway you should be out working but with such a dipshit name as vynlboy a Iguess it's hard to get work.