Black levels: the Sharp Elite is the daddy @0,0004ft with the Kuro Elite 9,5G @0,0005ft slightly behind. The best Panasonics (ST50-VT50) are @0,0026ft but there's no tint at all to the black levels on mine ST50 which is a first outside of OLED and CRT technology.
Contrast: clearly the Sharp Elite with better MLL and peak whites on an ANSI patern. The Kuro 9,5G is second and Kuro 9G third.
Color decoding: clearly the D8000.
Motion Sharpness: Samsung Plasma's without question. Panasonic is doing their best to come close. The Kuro's are terrible by comparison.
Overall picture: allround the Kuro still is one of the best pictures because it does everything very well whereas the Samsungs are still bad at black level and dynamic range (contrast). The Panasonics are still behind the Kuro 9G and 9,5G in terms of black level and dynamic range but much closer than Samsung while Samsung has better color decoding and better motion.

Technically the LG and Samsung OLED should rank 1 together in every department above once they launch.

- Did you leave out intentionally Panny's VX300 as for being targeting a professional market?

- Did you include Panny & Sammy 2012 plasmas in your evaluation?

Edit: I see now the VT50 in your post!!

I haven't seen the VX300 only the VX200 which was pretty great but by eye you can't really say much. However I'm purely comparing consumer displays as comparing professional displays with consumer displays is useless as the focus is entirely different.

I haven't seen the Samsung 2012 Plasma's or LCD's for that matter so can't make any judgement yet. I'm sure the VE Shoot-out will do a great job there. I also haven't seen the VT50 only the GT50 and ST50.

Can human eye perceive differences between 0,0005ft and @0,0026ft? What is the lower human eye limit? (According to this could be down to 0.000 005 ????)

That depends on the lighting conditions and picture brightness. In a room with bias lighting you won't see any difference between 0,0005ft and 0,0026ft. Both will appear very dark. In a dark room you will notice a difference between 0,0005ft and 0,0026ft. The higher brightness and untinted black levels of the 2012 Panasonic Plasma's make their black levels and dynamic range seem higher than they actually are and because of that the black levels and dynamic range look very close. I think you might only tell the difference in a dark room with the TVs next to each other.

In a completely dark room your eyes will problably be able to tell the difference all the way to something like 0.00001ft on a full 0 IRE patern but with an ANSI patern not so much.

That depends on the lighting conditions and picture brightness. In a room with bias lighting you won't see any difference between 0,0005ft and 0,0026ft. Both will appear very dark. In a dark room you will notice a difference between 0,0005ft and 0,0026ft. The higher brightness and untinted black levels of the 2012 Panasonic Plasma's make their black levels and dynamic range seem higher than they actually are and because of that the black levels and dynamic range look very close. I think you might only tell the difference in a dark room with the TVs next to each other.

In a completely dark room your eyes will problably be able to tell the difference all the way to something like 0.00001ft on a full 0 IRE patern but with an ANSI patern not so much.

Why do you continue to repeat the word "untinted"? There is no such thing as untinted 1-5% stimuli grayscales.

With the GT50 coming in at 5000:1+ contrast ratio doesn't that put it on par with the 9G KURO's?

Also D-Nice was telling me at some point about dynamic range and real world contrast ratios at 20 or 30% stimulus being far more important than contrast ratio's like ANSI which makes sense. So I would think the 2012 Panasonics with their increased brightness output may be on par with the 9 or 9.5G's for contrast and dynamic range?

In a dark room the KURO is probably still king but in my living room for 90% of material? I just don't know. Maybe ChadB or D-Nice can jump in and provide some more data?

With the GT50 coming in at 5000:1+ contrast ratio doesn't that put it on par with the 9G KURO's?

Not even close.

Quote:

So I would think the 2012 Panasonics with their increased brightness output may be on par with the 9 or 9.5G's for contrast and dynamic range?

The increased brightness fools the eye into perceiving blacker blacks. Its the same phenomenon you get with backlighting.

Quote:

In a dark room the KURO is probably still king but in my living room for 90% of material? I just don't know. Maybe ChadB or D-Nice can jump in and provide some more data?

If you put a 2012 Panasonic in the dark room right beside a 2nd Gen Kuro (aka 9G Pioneer), you will easily see the difference in black level. You will also see the difference in low lighting depending on where the lighting is in the room compared to the display.

If you put a 2012 Panasonic in the dark room right beside a 2nd Gen Kuro (aka 9G Pioneer), you will easily see the difference in black level. You will also see the difference in low lighting depending on where the lighting is in the room compared to the display.

Because you are un-biased and because knowledge and experience are on your side and you deserve respect and consideration for this!

I believe that at a certain point people will continue to state that Kuros are better just because of the blacks numbers, WITHOUT considering other important factors such as overall picture quality, video processing, colors, image noise, (plus other minor frills such as 3D, online services).

I'm very curios about this and awaiting when it will happen, and when you will state "mates: the wait is over! No need to follow Kuros anymore, regardless the blacks!"

I can have any display out there yet I own 5 Kuros with zero plans to replace them with any PDP from Panasonic, Samsung or LG... or any LED LCD currently on the market. Another individual's wallet and/or priorites can and will be different than mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blutarsky

Because you are un-biased and because knowledge and experience are on your side and you deserve respect and consideration for this!

I believe that at a certain point people will continue to state that Kuros are better just because of the blacks numbers, WITHOUT considering other important factors such as overall picture quality, video processing, colors, image noise, (plus other minor frills such as 3D, online services).

I'm very curios about this and awaiting when it will happen, and when you will state "mates: the wait is over! No need to follow Kuros anymore, regardless the blacks!"

Can someone correct me? I didn't make a deep search on this but what I understand is Pio & NEC have invented almost everything to make a better plasma TV than Kuro and licensed them. That's why Panasonic engineer team's hands are tied. Even though they were transferred from Pioneer.

I don't think money and production costs are the issue. Otherwise VX200-300 would be superior to Kuro.

Can someone correct me? I didn't make a deep search on this but what I understand is Pio & NEC have invented almost everything to make a better plasma TV than Kuro and licensed them. That's why Panasonic engineer team's hands are tied. Even though they were transferred from Pioneer.

I don't think money and production costs are the issue. Otherwise VX200-300 would be superior to Kuro.

The problem is current Plasma manufacturers have to build their Plasma TV's with different materials and a much lower footprint. Also while I won't deny the Kuro 9,5G specifically is one of the best TVs to date it isn't without flaws. These are always denied or forgotten because of the pedestal the Kuro's are being put on.

^You mean like DSE (though I think minimized on 9.5), PWM noise (dithering), phosphor trails and higher power requirements? Not everyone is bothered by those things (or can even detect them), but they are not always denied or forgotten.

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Originally Posted by D-Nice

Because you the consumer care more about gidgets and widgets than you do for PQ.

I do have an European non-elite 9G Kuro and one thing which newer sets tend to best it is static resolution. This is due to the selected dithering method which tend to be more noisy at the brighter end of the grayscale. I am not exactly sure this is the main reason for slight lack of depth but surely cannot think of anything else.

By next year the Kuro Killers should be the 55" LG OLED or the rumored 80" Elite 4K. There is also the slight possibility of an AppleTv using a Sharp/Foxconn panel, but the specs of the panel are unknown and it could just be a regular high end Sharp LCD with Siri and Apple interface included. If it was cutting edge tech, the price would be over 10K with Apple's insane markup.

By next year the Kuro Killers should be the 55" LG OLED or the rumored 80" Elite 4K. There is also the slight possibility of an AppleTv using a Sharp/Foxconn panel, but the specs of the panel are unknown and it could just be a regular high end Sharp LCD with Siri and Apple interface included. If it was cutting edge tech, the price would be over 10K with Apple's insane markup.

This guy again.

In no way shape or form is the sharp a kuro killer. You made that name up by the way. There is no "they."

Guys, stop asking to lock this please. It helps people to get an idea.

I'm suprised this thread haven't turned into a flame war resulting in a pad lock on it.

It really doesn't matter if the Kuro is surpassed or not, in this economy, if the price ain't right its not going to fly. The Sharp Elite, LG OLED and Samsung OLED will die on the vine. Did we not already learn this from Pioneer.