MIA

War Hero

Presumably, since it's not an all-volunteer branch, there will be no problem having an all-female mess/ablutions/etc; stick a tag on an existing one and ping as many female sailors as needed to fill it.

War Hero

Some of those who have ceased serving (yet DO care one way or the other) have now received that 1SL's dit: D/CNS/3/3/3/2. Mine arrived today from the Submariner’s Association** with this preface:

//This is being sent to multiple recipients.
Please pass this to all members of your branch who cannot receive e-mail.This is the official statement and not a ‘wind-up’.//

That Red & Underlined is as received. That D/CNS notice was clearly sent out to those serving in advance of the Minister’s announcement and explains both the background and rationale.

As I am uncertain of it’s Classification/Dist. List I am loathe to post the full text at RR, but it should be safe to at least quote the first & final paragraphs.

~~~~

<<…Gentlemen

WOMEN IN SUBMARINES
The Secretary of State will announce tomorrow that the restrictions on women serving in submarines will be lifted. I am writing (in advance on an embargoed basis) to explain the background to this decision, to highlight the timelines for implementation of the revised policy and to gain your support for what is an historic and positive day for the Submarine Service and the Royal Navy…

… The Navy Board advice was that implementation should be on a phased introduction of female personnel into submarines…

… I know that this decision may not be universally supported, and may generate contrasting headlines and editorials in the media. In this regard we will be engaging directly with submariners and their families over the next few days. Other navies around the world have introduced female personnel into their submarines with considerable success. You may also be aware the US Navy has announced the introduction of female officers into their SSBN/SSGN fleet.

Leadership will be key in overcoming any prejudice, in exactly the same way it was when we introduced female personnel into the Surface Fleet – a change that today attracts no debate. Above all, we need to recognise, whether male or female, it is professional competence that is the most important characteristic of those who serve at sea, and you can be sure that we will not be reducing our training standards for those whose role it will be to operate and maintain the Royal Navy’s submarine flotilla.

As ever

Mark S.>>>

~~~~

Received in Green but that Bold text is mine. Folks (like it or not) it's been coming for a long time so the detractors, Joining/Serving/Outside, should have all got used to it by now.

MIA

Some of those who have ceased serving (yet DO care one way or the other) have now received that 1SL's dit: D/CNS/3/3/3/2. Mine arrived today from the Submariner’s Association** with this preface:

//This is being sent to multiple recipients.
Please pass this to all members of your branch who cannot receive e-mail.This is the official statement and not a ‘wind-up’.//

That Red & Underlined is as received. That D/CNS notice was clearly sent out to those serving in advance of the Minister’s announcement and explains both the background and rationale.

As I am uncertain of it’s Classification/Dist. List I am loathe to post the full text at RR, but it should be safe to at least quote the first & final paragraphs.

~~~~

<<…Gentlemen

WOMEN IN SUBMARINES
The Secretary of State will announce tomorrow that the restrictions on women serving in submarines will be lifted. I am writing (in advance on an embargoed basis) to explain the background to this decision, to highlight the timelines for implementation of the revised policy and to gain your support for what is an historic and positive day for the Submarine Service and the Royal Navy…

… The Navy Board advice was that implementation should be on a phased introduction of female personnel into submarines…

… I know that this decision may not be universally supported, and may generate contrasting headlines and editorials in the media. In this regard we will be engaging directly with submariners and their families over the next few days. Other navies around the world have introduced female personnel into their submarines with considerable success. You may also be aware the US Navy has announced the introduction of female officers into their SSBN/SSGN fleet.

Leadership will be key in overcoming any prejudice, in exactly the same way it was when we introduced female personnel into the Surface Fleet – a change that today attracts no debate. Above all, we need to recognise, whether male or female, it is professional competence that is the most important characteristic of those who serve at sea, and you can be sure that we will not be reducing our training standards for those whose role it will be to operate and maintain the Royal Navy’s submarine flotilla.

As ever

Mark S.>>>

~~~~

Received in Green but that Bold text is mine. Folks (like it or not) it's been coming for a long time so the detractors, Joining/Serving/Outside, should have all got used to it by now.

War Hero

My concern is this - last night on the BBC(?) News, there was an interview with a 2 ringer female Logs, who 'couldn't wait to join the Submarine Service' etc. Now, she might be the world and RN's best Logs, but then she may be merely just competent.

Say the MoD/RN in their haste to present the RN's first Serving female submariner select such a person, who then fails to perform. Many of you will recall one of the recent TV series about submarines, where a male Logs officer had to wrap it all in due to all the pressures.

Hopefully, whoever the first one is, she'll have no problems with the lack of privacy, not being alowed in the Bunrun until qualified and actually carrying out her Part 3/BSQ - oh yes, and being the fully functional Logs of an operational boat. And DO and Watchkeeper etc etc.

Also, I'm pretty sure I had to do a return of Service before having the option to return to GS, should I have wished. How can they possibly enforce this with a female, in terms of pregnancy etc? Or will the playing fields be variable rather than level?

War Hero

Did anyone read the truely condescending "Q & A" dit that accompanied the statement? Some real gems in there that I am paraphrasing:

"Will I have to act differently in the company of female submariners" (!)

"Can I walk around naked on the boat?" (!!)

"What would happen if I accidently brush past a female in a confined space" (really?!)

"Will female submariners be subjected to the same water rationing as their male counterparts?" FFS!

I was half expecting to see "When female submariners menstruate, will the smell attract sharks?"

Total shite. Who asks these questions?

How about asking "If an all-female bunk-space is not at full complement and there are males having to hot-bunk, is that fair?"

IMO if we're going to do this properly then it should be total integration. No separate bunk spaces, no naked sleeping, use your common sense. There are shower curtains in the showers, lockable doors on the shitters and curtains in your pit. It shouldn't be a problem. Are we really still living in a Carry-On film these days?

A female submariner should be completely interchangeable with her male counterpart.

War Hero

Begs the questions with females going onto Submarines and the first ship(???) commanded by a female captain - when is the first ship /submarine going to manned completly by females????? HMS Petticoat springs to mind

Banned

Newbie

Did anyone read the truely condescending "Q & A" dit that accompanied the statement? Some real gems in there that I am paraphrasing:

"Will I have to act differently in the company of female submariners" (!)

"Can I walk around naked on the boat?" (!!)

"What would happen if I accidently brush past a female in a confined space" (really?!)

"Will female submariners be subjected to the same water rationing as their male counterparts?" FFS!

I was half expecting to see "When female submariners menstruate, will the smell attract sharks?"

Total shite. Who asks these questions?

How about asking "If an all-female bunk-space is not at full complement and there are males having to hot-bunk, is that fair?"

IMO if we're going to do this properly then it should be total integration. No separate bunk spaces, no naked sleeping, use your common sense. There are shower curtains in the showers, lockable doors on the shitters and curtains in your pit. It shouldn't be a problem. Are we really still living in a Carry-On film these days?

A female submariner should be completely interchangeable with her male counterpart.

Totally agree with Off_les_Aura but think that it will be implemented at minimal cost and the WO2s, Coxns and ChOPS will be turfed out of the Upper Bunk Space and told to stop dripping and man up. That won't breed any animosity will it!

Lets let the females prove that they are equally competent which they undoubted are but it will be interesting to get their opinion once they have lived on board for a fortnight without a wash while the Back-Afties fix the knackered Brabies.

War Hero

This is pasted from the RNCom news page. It echoes the Galaxy message released yesterday and hopefully might answer some of the accommodation issues:

The Vanguard class of nuclear deterrent boats will be the first to carry female submariners.Initially this will be a small number of officers – volunteers who will begin training next year and will take up their posts towards the end of 2013. The first female ratings will be recruited and trained from 2014.Women will also be able to serve in Astute-class hunter killer submarines from 2016 when the necessary modifications to the state-of-the-art boats’ accommodation have been made.

The same old issues were raised 20 years ago with regard to surface ships. Just get on with it.