Define evil

So how does the rapture work in your worldview? Aren't the righteous supposed to be beamed to heaven Star Trek style at the start of the end?

Maybe. I'm not sure exactly where I stand with respect to that. If there is one, then the ones who truly believe will go, but it could also mean that
God only lifts the true innocents out of the way. It may mean he only takes children and others who have no accountability for their choices leaving
the rest of us.

Either way, I think that if there is one, there will be plenty of people who are calling themselves Christians who will be surprised. It's not enough
to simply go through the motions and pay lip service. You do have to have real faith, and that's why I say I don't know, none of us can, is our
faith enough? I pray that it is.

Regardless, there will be plenty left behind whose eyes will be opened then and realize that they were caught flat-footed, that church isn't just
something you go do on Sunday and forget the rest of the time. That you do have to make an effort to live your principles rather than just pay lip
service to them.

Whatever it winds up being, if it even winds up being, it's not like everyone who calls themselves Christian is going to be suddenly gone although
again, I could very well be wrong. So there will be plenty left to be persecuted and hunted, and if there was a Rapture, it's going to be pretty
obviously supernatural in some way, so it's going to be hard to deny that something happened for the rest of the world. I expect that even some who
never gave faith much thought before might start thinking about it.

But, as I said, I'm on the fence with the idea of a Rapture. It seems pretty incredible to me, but God could do it if he chose, so the question is
... is He going to choose to remove us, or did a bunch of people think it up as wishful thinking to get people believing that we'll be spared what is
obviously going to be a pretty crappy time?

Just because WW3 appears to be imminent doesn't mean that the end of the world is upon us. First off, prove to me that WW3 is supposed to be
the end of the world.

According to Albert Pike, WW3 will be a war between Islam and Christianity. Look at Gulf War I & II. Iraq sanctions. Afganistan, Libya and almost
Syria. Muslims against non-muslims. After WW3 comes the anti-christ.

By your own picture you are missing who is pulling the strings in the so called Sunni Salafi issue in The middle east. You have a religious
fundamentalistic Saudi sponsored view that is being used to give Saudi Arabia side control over the middle east by the help of the US. The true enemy
was always your own politicians and their Saudi Arabian friends. If is like Westboro baptist church being the truth of all Christians and
aggressively converting all to them and used for material gain.

I have no information that the Sufi mystics and the Shiites in Iran are attacking Christians and destroying Churches and statues of Buddha.

The Garment of Religion is what people (wolves) in Sheep clothing use to hide among the sheep creating consent for what they do by saying they are
part of the flock.

The sealed ones on their forehead are another issue and the so called Jewish connection seem to me to be a misunderstanding when compared to what is
really happening. Just because they are 144000 sealed ones that have been told to come here for specific reasons do not mean the people surrounding
them are lost ones and will be hurt. But then I make my assumption that the seed movement is the 144000.

I think I will use Kerli as an example. She is very in your face without masks.

You are either a troll in complete denial or in for one hell of a shock in the very near future.

Nice, ad hominem attacks. That is sure to convince me of your position... But I'll address this anyways. I'm agnostic, you nor anyone else in this
thread has provided anything of substantial proof that the end of the world is imminent, so I'm going to continue to ask for proof. Right now, science
says you are wrong and that Revelations is impossible, historical record says that you are wrong and that Revelations is an allegory for the Roman
Empire, and even Christians' track record with predicting the end of the world throws doubt onto your position.

Read what Albert Pike said exactly, word for word. Then look at his exact words and compare them to this world since 1991.

Again, racist. I doubt a racist who lives through hate has some sort of special connection to the divine. That is unless you don't consider racism
evil, I never did get a real answer from you about that topic. But here's a thought, if his words are so valuable to you, how about posting a
transcript of what he said instead of just telling me to go read it?

Why oh why would non-believing atheists obey the Book of Revelation ? They don't even read the book.
Rev.17:12-14 Para

"And the ten horns you saw are ten kings, who have not yet received their kingdom; but will receive authority as kings one hour with the
beast. These have one mind, and their power and authority they shall give to the beast. These will make war with the Lamb [Jesus Christ], and the Lamb
will overcome them: because he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and the ones with him are the called and elect, and faithful ones".

And that passage means what to you? I don't see the word atheist or non-believer in there. Soooo for all I know, those ten kings could just be
Satanists or Buddhists or Muslims. So are you ever going to provide proof (please don't quote bible passages, they are the last thing I consider as
proof of anything) that the word is ran by an ATHEIST elite trying to bring about the apocalypse?

The humble, meek and sombre followers of YHWH will be given visions of the coming future. There is a thin veil between this world and other
worlds running parallel to this one in real time.

Scientists mention this in quantum whatever.

Yes, it is called the multiverse though I'm not sure about your claim about the "humble, meek and
sombre" getting visions of it. In fact I'd like to know where you got that idea, I certainly read nothing in the bible about the righteous getting a
glimpse of another universe.

i will put my neck on the line and mention the fact that its quite possible that very soon (early Feb) some people will be able to see and
enter into paradises.
A vertical rainbow will descend and transform a bland gray sky into a blue one. The frozen grass and plants will be spring green. No scratches on
nearby red cars anymore.
i was exiting a epileptic minor seizure, walking down the road, head spinning where my right eye saw the paradise and the left eye saw everything as
normal. Go ahead, insults. However, this paradise might well be there. We just cannot naturally see it yet. BTW, brain activity goes through the roof
during a seizure.

i am skeptical to it and will believe it to be a false paradise filled with temptation.
i think ATS member sled735 recently said that some children can now see people's auras as this veil thins.

If this rainbow does descend and a new age paradise does cover this planet, what will you think then ?

Ok, so when February comes and goes, what are you going to do if (when) you are wrong? I'm actually going to make a prediction based on your responses
to me. I'm going to predict that you won't admit your mistake and just push back this imminent end another month and keep doing that. I mean is it
really that fun looking forward to the apocalypse? You haven't even clearly defined to me what evil is (let alone good), so are you sure that you are
destined for paradise? Why do you wish untold death, punishment and torture upon your fellow man?

Also, why do you seem to think that I'm insulting you? You came into my thread where I'm asking people to define evil, then you ad hominem attack me
in this very post I'm quoting and you assume that -I- will insult you for something? You can ask ketsuko, I'm actually being civil in this thread. I'm
usually pretty passive aggressive with my retorts about religion. All I'm doing with you is demanding proof for your outrageous claims, many of which
I've never even heard before. You know extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that jazz.

Krazysh0t
It's served me far better than asking for God for help. Hypothetical situation: I break my leg while hiking through the woods, what will get results
quicker?

However, God granted you the faculties to be able to handle that situation. A believer admits this, others take the credit for themselves. Again, this
is about God vs Self and Pride.

Krazysh0t
Care to define evil like the OP asks? What makes these people evil?

I already did, several posts back.
Its about love of anything over love of God. Selfishness, making oneself an idol.

Krazysh0t
Because they are exploiting numerous amounts of people and causing hardship?

That is a symptom, the 'root cause' is what I said above.

Krazysh0t
How are we excused from this blatant neglect?

We aren't, but not everything is in our control. We live in an evil world that is run by Satan. We have to believe that God will ultimately deal with
all these other issues in some way. Those who are Christians are also sinners, if we weren't sinners we wouldn't need Christ and would reach
salvation through our own merits. The thing is to be humble, repentant, understand that God ultimately takes care of everything, love your fellow man,
love God, and do the best you're able to do. Christians are supposed to be “in” the world, not “of” the world.

Krazysh0t
Let me spell out what is wrong with these three paragraphs, this word: "interpretation". Because prophecies (especially Revelations) are so vague,
any yahoo and their inbred cousin can come up with their own interpretation of the prophecies then when events happen that kind of look like these
things, they can shoehorn them to fit and then declare them proven.

Actually that's not true.
While groups like the RCC have tried to change the interpretations, the actual meanings are there for all to see who want to read them. Most of the
prophecies are based on the visions of Daniel. Daniel had each vision explained to him directly by an angel. If you carry the same prophetic language
into the New Testament, you will see the exact meanings.

What groups like the RCC did was to try and muddy the waters by twisting the meanings to cover up for certain things that made them look bad during
the Protestant Reformation. That is why they specifically hired Jesuit Theologians to target this issue during the council of Trent, and come up with
different interpretations. The school that the RCC finally accepted, Preterism, is VERY similar to Historicism. It mainly differs significantly in who
they name to be the various “beasts”. To anyone that truly studies Daniel, they will know that the Beasts are Kingdoms, not People.

Krazysh0t
Though not a single prophecy that follows those guidelines has ever been proven.

Actually John Wesley in his “explanatory notes” on the New Testament was able to make some accurate predictions of things that happened years
after he wrote about them, based on proper understanding of prophecy. He knew in advance that Rome would soon suffer a devastating blow, which
happened about 30 years after he wrote it. He also knew that the last world superpower would come into existence roughly around the same time, which
also came true about 20 years after he wrote it.

defcon5
However, God granted you the faculties to be able to handle that situation. A believer admits this, others take the credit for themselves. Again, this
is about God vs Self and Pride.

My parents gave birth to me. Should I credit them as well whenever I use the facilities I was born with to get out of trouble?

I already did, several posts back.
Its about love of anything over love of God. Selfishness, making oneself an idol.

Fair enough. I probably missed it since there are many people responding to me in this thread.

We aren't, but not everything is in our control. We live in an evil world that is run by Satan. We have to believe that God will ultimately
deal with all these other issues in some way. Those who are Christians are also sinners, if we weren't sinners we wouldn't need Christ and would
reach salvation through our own merits. The thing is to be humble, repentant, understand that God ultimately takes care of everything, love your
fellow man, love God, and do the best you're able to do. Christians are supposed to be “in” the world, not “of” the world.

If we are all sinners, how does one reach salvation? Repent your sins? What happens if you die and haven't confessed your sins lately?

Actually that's not true.
While groups like the RCC have tried to change the interpretations, the actual meanings are there for all to see who want to read them. Most of the
prophecies are based on the visions of Daniel. Daniel had each vision explained to him directly by an angel. If you carry the same prophetic language
into the New Testament, you will see the exact meanings.

What groups like the RCC did was to try and muddy the waters by twisting the meanings to cover up for certain things that made them look bad during
the Protestant Reformation. That is why they specifically hired Jesuit Theologians to target this issue during the council of Trent, and come up with
different interpretations. The school that the RCC finally accepted, Preterism, is VERY similar to Historicism. It mainly differs significantly in who
they name to be the various “beasts”. To anyone that truly studies Daniel, they will know that the Beasts are Kingdoms, not People.

This boils down to this: My interpretation is the most correct one. Except there is at least one or two other people in this VERY thread who have a
completely different interpretations of Revelations who I've been having separate debates with. They earnestly believe that they are correct as well.
Not to mention, what about the claims that Revelations was about the Roman Empire and its inevitable fall? That Revelations is basically a revenge
fanfic written by John after being persecuted by the RE?

Actually John Wesley in his “explanatory notes” on the New Testament was able to make some accurate predictions of things that happened
years after he wrote about them, based on proper understanding of prophecy. He knew in advance that Rome would soon suffer a devastating blow, which
happened about 30 years after he wrote it. He also knew that the last world superpower would come into existence roughly around the same time, which
also came true about 20 years after he wrote it.

First off, provide proof of this.

Second, how can you claim that a prediction that predicts the LAST world superpower is true if the world hasn't ended yet? Third, John Wesley lived
during the 18th century. Since then the world has had these superpowers in no particular order:
United States, Germany, France, Spain, Great Britain, USSR, China, Japan, and heck might as well throw the UN in there as well.

Evil is the transgression of God's spiritual laws (also defined as sin) which results in suffering upon the Earth.
Good is the adherence to God's spiritual laws which results in blessings upon the Earth.

Who is your law giver?

Who defines what is right and wrong for you?
1. What seems right to the reasoning of my own mind, or collective reasoning of mankind as a whole.
2. What God says is right.

Jesus Christ, upon his return shortly, will begin to destroy all rebellion against the spiritual laws of the Eternal God; that process takes time and
God has a plan for that time period in perfection, one which was known before anything was ever created.

Exactly, one person's evil can be another person's good. Religion likes to rationalize war, death, and destruction by saying that it was by the grace
of God (Christianity isn't the only one guilty of this one either) despite clear outlines saying that these things are bad.

Another question is how can God(s) side with one faction of people in a war over another? Doesn't that distill the people down to certain good and
evil roles as well? People cannot help what country they are born in nor can they help it if their country decides to war against another and they end
up fighting for their country. Not all nazis are evil. Some (most) were probably just fighting for the glory of their country and probably didn't even
know the Holocaust was occurring in their name. But apparently in the bible God chose sides and if you happened to live back then and had the
misfortune to have been born in one of the many nations that the Jews went to war with backed by their god, you'd be considered on the side of evil.
What, you just wanted to protect your family and ensure their safety? TOO BAD! BURN!

edit on 29-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason
given)

The nature of mankind is evil by design. We do not want to obey laws which prevent us from pursuing the lust of the flesh the lust of the eyes and
the pride of life; for all decisions in life when one truly understands their carnality are driven to satisfy those physical lusts.

We were made physical on purpose, physical beings require substance to live, that physical requirement creates in us automatically selfish desire. I
need food, I need water, I need love, I need shelter, I need protection, I need entertainment; these are things mankind was designed to need. God did
this on purpose by perfect design.

God created evil by creating choice in free moral beings. By creating free choice, He created the option for a being to choose another way of thinking
in opposition to God's; which results in evil (sin).

He gave choice to the angelic realm and in time 1/3rd turned against God's laws and created what they felt was right in their mind (Lucifer/Satan and
the demons). Spirit beings were made spiritual not physical; so when they choose to turn against God's laws of good, their minds/spirits became
fixed/set/established against God forever, they are not subject to change, because they are not physical. This is why God's family must come from
physical man and not the angelic realm. This is the root cause for Lucifer's choice to think differently from God; he was the greatest of angelic
beings, and when God revealed His plan for Elohim through physical man, Lucifer rebelled against His creator.

Physical man can change their mind many times over time.

God's purpose for the creation of the physical realm was to reproduce himself (His way of thinking/Spirit/Character). He is building a family of
beings that think like Him by CHOICE. They each have their own personalities, feelings, thoughts, idea etc. but the manner in which they think (the
laws which govern their thoughts) are in unity and oneness with Almighty God. In the end billions of mankind will become Elohim, children of God and
brothers and sisters with Christ eternally as spirit beings.

Currently only 2 beings exist in this family (called Elohim in scripture) God the Father, and Jesus Christ the son. But all mankind was created
physical so we can become Elohim (a member of the God family with Jesus Christ as the oldest son of God) in time.

There is a plan outlined in the Annual Holy Days and weekly Sabbath which explain this process from beginning to end if you have ears to hear. In
time, and over the course of two physical lifetimes (for most) all will understand fully why what occurred in this present age of mankind's self rule
occurred, they will be thankful that their time in the present age of evil selfish man was cut short in mercy so they can better accept God's way of
thinking in their second physical life in the Great White Thrown age of God plan, where mankind will not be allowed to live by the laws of our own
imagining.

Your feelings are understandable and normal to have regarding the events God commanded His people to do in ancient Israel. But know that those
actions were actually a display of mercy for the minds of those who were killed, God knows that for them the less time spent in this present age of
selfish mankind the more fully they will come to embrace God's perfect way of thinking which produces peace between minds in their second physical
life in another age to come.

Death in this age is not the end. God controls life and death, and their is a plan.

ElohimJD
Your feelings are understandable and normal to have regarding the events God commanded His people to do in ancient Israel. But know that those
actions were actually a display of mercy for the minds of those who were killed, God knows that for them the less time spent in this present age of
selfish mankind the more fully they will come to embrace God's perfect way of thinking which produces peace between minds in their second physical
life in another age to come.

Death isn't the only outcome of war. There is loss of home, livelihood, and family; rape; theft; torture; destruction of agriculture; and many more
things. To rationalize God picking sides in a war by saying that he was giving these people mercy so they didn't have to live in that time is foolish
unless the victorious army eradicates every last person in the opposing force, but we know that isn't true since raping of the women is something that
victorious armies have done since forever. And you can bet that the sides that god supposedly supported participated in this injustice. There is no
mercy in war and if you believe otherwise, you've never stepped foot on a battlefield before.

In fact, God of the OT (the one who takes sides in warfare), is anything but loving. All he does is unleash death and destruction on people, some of
which are VERY painful ways to go. If God wanted to show mercy so that these people didn't have to live in that time, fire bombing them at Sodom,
drowning them in a flood, and all the other crazy ways God has killed people are all the exact OPPOSITE of mercy. If God wanted to mercifully kill
people, why couldn't He just snuff their life out painlessly? Nope he has to let conquering armies do his work for him or using natural disasters to
do it.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
Evil is intentionally doing things to others that you would not want done to you over and over again. Morals are based on the golden rule, if you
continually break the golden rule intentionally, you are evil.

There are people that like the process of being tortured, would they be considered evil if they do it to others under your rule?

Evil is part of perception , environment, social life, cultures and experiences.Nobody is born evil .We learn to be evil.You think all those German
army officers, soldiers who KNEW what is happening in chambers of Aushwitz were all evil ? You think those Saudi kids who watch hanging and beheading
in live then when they grow up doing the same was born evil ? It's all about indoctrination.That German officer if it was switched like a baby in the
birth room with another baby he will not be that evil man from Aushwitz, but will be proceed with normal life.And why this thread is under religion?
Those rapturists and neo-christians with their ramblings about paradise and other nonsences are derailing the thread.This is a good thread.

For a Christian, faith in Christ, usually called "accepting Him as your Lord and Savior," is how you reach salvation. It's an understanding that
you are a sinner, a flawed being that is not perfect, and needs forgiveness because you will do wrong/sin. And that forgiveness is there if you
sincerely seek it.

It's one of the things that's probably the biggest sticking point with most people. They feel like good works, being a good person, should determine
who is saved, and that's part of it. Certainly, when we all stand before the Lord, a person who has done the most good will have the least to account
for with Him, but even that person will still have done things they will need to be forgiven for. And for that, you need salvation.

Christianity is a system of salvation first, works second. But if you do believe and have faith, the works will be there because you genuinely do love
others as yourself and desire to do the best you can in life for everyone around you.

This would be why I say that if there is a Rapture, there are likely to be a lot of surprised Christians.

xavi1000
Evil is part of perception , environment, social life, cultures and experiences.Nobody is born evil .We learn to be evil.You think all those German
army officers, soldiers who KNEW what is happening in chambers of Aushwitz were all evil ? You think those Saudi kids who watch hanging and beheading
in live then when they grow up doing the same was born evil ? It's all about indoctrination.That German officer if it was switched like a baby in the
birth room with another baby he will not be that evil man from Aushwitz, but will be proceed with normal life.And why this thread is under religion?
Those rapturists and neo-christians with their ramblings about paradise and other nonsences are derailing the thread.This is a good thread.

I gave you a star for your answer even though I disagree with you on part of it. Evil is as much a religious topic as it is a secular one. We all have
different perspectives on the subject and each is valid.

But yes, children are essentially born innocent of evil. They don't know either good or evil until they are taught.

For a Christian, faith in Christ, usually called "accepting Him as your Lord and Savior," is how you reach salvation. It's an understanding that you
are a sinner, a flawed being that is not perfect, and needs forgiveness because you will do wrong/sin. And that forgiveness is there if you sincerely
seek it.

It's one of the things that's probably the biggest sticking point with most people. They feel like good works, being a good person, should determine
who is saved, and that's part of it. Certainly, when we all stand before the Lord, a person who has done the most good will have the least to account
for with Him, but even that person will still have done things they will need to be forgiven for. And for that, you need salvation.

Christianity is a system of salvation first, works second. But if you do believe and have faith, the works will be there because you genuinely do love
others as yourself and desire to do the best you can in life for everyone around you.

This would be why I say that if there is a Rapture, there are likely to be a lot of surprised Christians.

I agree with what you write and wanna add below:

The works come from humbling the self/ego and greed/need of the self and increased empathy for others need. The works do not come if the humbling do
not happen and the ego/self is not transformed. I like a talk I once had with a Jehovas witness who said: I am not going to heaven since I am meant to
be on earth and we have it good enough here. He could be thankful for what he had here on earth in a way I have not been able to, since he has a
connection to what is here that I lack. That guy is in his own way remarkable.

Jesus is a good teacher from my point of view when the person really listen to what Jesus is saying with an open mind.

TextThis thread is directed mostly at Christians who believe that there will be some ultimate battle between good and evil where Jesus rides down out
of the clouds and starts kicking evil's butt, but if non-Christians want to weigh in and describe what they think evil is that is fine.

To begin, Jesus is dead forevermore and no He does not ever ride down anywhere again. He is simply dead. But He did resurrect back into His
celestial state of being the Word of God. It is the Word of God who rides down and starts kicking evil’s butt, as you put it.

Let’s start this evil thing with Lucifer because he is credited with starting all of evil. Lucifer is a created entity (Angel). This angel Lucifer
is a Satan. This would mean that we have but one Lucifer but could have several Satan’s. The meaning of Satan is that Satan is any entity who
rebels against God. In other words this would explain that a Satan tempted Jesus but Lucifer is still bound in hell with his cohorts. Jesus was
tempted by a Satan but the bible does not name the entity who was that Satan. Most Christians automatically assume that it was Lucifer but then after
realizing that Lucifer is in hell most will become confused. The same applies to demons. Most Christians are taught that demons are fallen angels
when in fact they are not angels at all.

In order to understand evil we must first understand what a Satan is. So then what is a Satan? A Satan is a spirit of which we have no idea of its
composition. All we are taught is that evil is a creation of God (Isaiah 45:7). The angel named Lucifer did not invent evil. Evil was created in
the celestial realm by the Creator and is a spirit of disobedience. Lucifer embraced this spirit of evil but was not the progenitor of evil. God did
not create sin (evil) in malice. He created evil as knowledge. To show us good God must present bad. You cannot have righteousness without
unrighteousness. Otherwise you would not have knowledge. Hot and cold is another opposite which is also knowledge. Knowledge embraces wisdom and
without knowledge you cannot have wisdom. This is the only reason that God created evil as a teaching tool.

The entire civilized world understands right from wrong in accordance with their culture. By this I mean that some cultures will embrace as good what
some others will discard as evil. So we must have a yardstick to measure exactly what evil is. That yardstick cannot be mankind because mankind is
not able to be consistent. So the yardstick is the Creator and whoever embraces this yardstick. In our culture that yardstick was a human man called
Jesus who represented the Creator God.

Now God teaches His creation there are some who will never learn the perfect will of God and some who will learn the perfect will of God. As a child
will learn to achieve the perfect will of God that child is given a grace period of what we call the permissive will of God. The reason for
permissive will is to teach but if one is unteachable then that one has embraced the spirit of disobedience (evil) and cannot enjoy the family
privileges of living in the kingdom of God. This is exactly what Lucifer did.

Who determines when a person is unteachable? At what point is this in a person’s life? An example is the Apostle Paul. Paul was a murderer but
Paul was taught and changed his attitude and became a lover of what he hated. How did God know Paul would do this? The answer is that the Creator
God has the foreknowledge to know each and every one of His children’s minds. Paul was so convinced that his Creator existed in the manner of which
he believed that he was willing to die for that faith.

So evil can be manifested in you and me at one period of life and then overcome with love in the next period of our lives. But the yardstick is still
the man called Jesus. This actually means that every one of the human family has the opportunity to overcome, through grace, the permissive will of
God into the perfect will of God. Not saying that you become perfect but only that you accept the grace that is offered through the teacher who was
the Christ Jesus.

Pretty much all the evil in the world is human. It's the things we do to each other either directly or indirectly, by choice. It's in the power of
people to stop being awful, but we never all will. And as a result, even if you don't directly see someone else suffer through your own bad choices,
others will.

People often cite death due to natural disaster as "evil," but it's not. It's wholly impersonal, accidental. We call it "evil" because we feel
it unjust that people lost their lives before their time, but there's no intelligence behind it. It just happens and it's part of living on a
dynamic planet.

Most of it relates to them, and most of them relate to an inability to control our animal urges if you look at them. If we treat each other and act
like animals, then the world becomes a very dark place very quickly.

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