i know the methyl content is high, but MOHN is so mild. if i get it in time i may run 1,4ad throughout @ 600mg or so.

i generally avoid thermogenics, but i'd be willing to try yohimbine stacked if someone can recommend a good protocol.

i like the winstrol use because of its anti-progesterone properties (a concern with MOHN), plus the combination of those two will balance the joint problems winny causes (MOHN being a nandrolone is commonly reported as being easy on joints) clearly i am going for a mild, slow cycle.

is this enough anabolism to support that caloric deficit?

anyone recommend formestane? thought it would keep test (and therefore libido) up on-cycle, which may be an issue. naturally i will do a full clomid/nolva PCT and use plenty of liver, heart and DHT protection on-cycle.

i know the methyl content is high, but MOHN is so mild. if i get it in time i may run 1,4ad throughout @ 600mg or so.

i generally avoid thermogenics, but i'd be willing to try yohimbine stacked if someone can recommend a good protocol.

i like the winstrol use because of its anti-progesterone properties (a concern with MOHN), plus the combination of those two will balance the joint problems winny causes (MOHN being a nandrolone is commonly reported as being easy on joints) clearly i am going for a mild, slow cycle.

is this enough anabolism to support that caloric deficit?

anyone recommend formestane? thought it would keep test (and therefore libido) up on-cycle, which may be an issue. naturally i will do a full clomid/nolva PCT and use plenty of liver, heart and DHT protection on-cycle.

It does not look unreasonably toxic, but still, be aware if hypertension developes. Yohimbe stacks well as a burner with m4ohn, but it requires low blood sugar to be effective. It also kills GH biosynthesis which hurts fat burning, so don't even do it unless your going to cut the carbs, almost to a keto like level. Formestane supports libido, but you really don't need it on a non-aromatizing cycle, may cut some sides but probably won't boost test much. Although people like 6-oxo, another steroidal inhibitor, for recovery so who knows. Also, M4OHN is not strongly progestinic although it's 17-methylated and a nor compound because the 4-sub attenuates receptor affinity.

like i said, slow and steady, plus doubling methyls means dosages need to stay down. it isnt uncommon to run winny that low (50 is generally the max), especially if you want to minimize sides like hair loss and achey joints. if it's comfortable after 2 weeks i'll go 30mg.

Dr.D thanks for the wisdom. i did not intend to use keto or CKD, as i like to make things gradual and sustainable, so looks like yoh is out. any other suggestions? i did not intend the formestane to cut into estrogen the way one would using an aromatizing steroid, but to cut back on normal estrogen and maybe get the body to kick out more test accordingly (something it has been shown to do in controlled studies) while also increasing the overall dryness...yknow, i probably wont run it alongside the winny as that would just be too dry and hard on my joints, even with MOHN in the mix.

anybody see a problem with using two 19-nor derivatives at once? (MOHN and M-Dien) should i go with MDHT instead? i have a ton of it. from my research it looks like circulating DHT shouldnt impact the hairline like extra test (and the subsequent 5-AR reduction at the scalp) does, but you never know with these things. any feedback on the subject?

i hate bumping my own threads, but i'd love some more wisdom regarding the last question about 2 19-nors and hairloss on MDHT.

i really would like to use this m-dien as it seems to be worthless for bulking and very good while cutting (people not expecting to do so lost from their waists)...maybe stack it just with the winny for a 5-weeker? just too many possibilities.

and supposedly 7-OXO-DHEA delivered via avant's FL7 can help keep fat down when on a caloric surplus...if i could stay at this BF% and gain 5-10lbs on maintenance cals i would be very happy. thoughts?

The only prob w/ stacking these two particular nors, is that they are both very androgenic, the mdien especially more so than the m4ohn. Hairloss would be a concern if you were already prone I suppose. The mdien is a mild progestin too which enhances fat loss by thermogenic effect and non-aromatizing orals in general have been shown to burn more belly fat. DHT is worse quantitatively on hairloss than test is. Also, I'd go with 7-OH(aka: leanX), but 7-Oxo will do the same job at fat doses.

The only prob w/ stacking these two particular nors, is that they are both very androgenic, the mdien especially more so than the m4ohn. Hairloss would be a concern if you were already prone I suppose. The mdien is a mild progestin too which enhances fat loss by thermogenic effect and non-aromatizing orals in general have been shown to burn more belly fat. DHT is worse quantitatively on hairloss than test is. Also, I'd go with 7-OH(aka: leanX), but 7-Oxo will do the same job at fat doses.

so what do you suggest for incorporating anabolics into a cutter like this? i decided to use T3 also, so the anabolic activity will need to be higher. i also have finasteride for the potential hair loss (understood that it can impact the cycle)

so what do you suggest for incorporating anabolics into a cutter like this? i decided to use T3 also, so the anabolic activity will need to be higher. i also have finasteride for the potential hair loss (understood that it can impact the cycle)

I still think it looks good the way you had it. Your doses did not look high enough to promote major issues, and while I have never used winni, the others are good cutters. You can modify doses up or down depednding on results and sides. Just don't get silly with the T3 and you should be anabolic enough. Add 7-Oxo if catabolism developes due to low cals, because more anabolics won't really help in that case, unless you do some protein sub'ing and that has it's limits.

sounds good. reckon i'll run finasteride @ 1mg throughout the cycle, and of course the other standard hairloss preventers. acne is rarely a big concern for me, but i'll naturally keep a close eye out.

dr.d you dont think MDHT would be better than any of the other components? it seems to impart mostly strength and vascularity, but i'm not really worried about strength and i expect more than enough vasculaity from what i already have there...

anybody suggest a T3 protocol that has worked especially well for them? havent decided on the clen.

finasteride is known to block only the convertion test->dht and nothing else; due to the 4-OH mohn couldn't convert to a dihydro derivative, no idea what happens with the MD in this case. However nandrolone and finasteride is bad, so I would have some concerns for using MD (nor derivative) with finasteride (something like inhibiting the convertion u let the parent compound to be bound to the AR in the scalp, which may be worse than the corresponding dihydro comp) - but I really dunno if the Md could be converted..