Return the King Dragon to a Fun Tank

I am personally not enjoying the so called 'buff". I was able to quickly obtain my first MOE in 56 games and was well on my way to the second mark at 76%. Then the 'buff' happens, I dropped to 62% in a three days. This tank was so fun to play pre 'buff' I could flank and destroy most heavies at will. Now the tank has a horrible reload time, the timing is completely off. This sucks the fun out of one of my favorites tanks. I had previously enjoyed this tank so much that I spent additional gold to apply Chinese inscriptions on the side and would play this daily, consistently making into the top five and playing this tank for the Chinese Team to easily earn the points for Tank Madness. The tank play is nothing like what I paid for, previously I shot the front of my opponent circled around and destroyed them, now they reload faster than the King Dragon and I take a horrible beating. I had no problem with taking on most tanks before the "buff'.

I purchased the King Dragon because I enjoyed the Type 59 so much. I prefer the quick loading flankers like the T23E3, Panzer V/IV and the Type 59.

I paid for very different kind of tank and enjoyed it so much to add customization, the new 'buff' sucks the fun out of the tank. At it's current state this tank will probably sit in my garage and collect dust, extremely disappointing, as this was not a cheap expenditure. Please return the King Dragon to its former glory or at least offer a selection between the two guns for those that prefer to play the type of tank they purchased?

Yup. They could have just given it the same MM as the Type 59 and made it a great crew trainer since it has that crew xp bonus. One of these days people with an E-25 will log on and find it has been taken from them and a premium version of the Sturer Emil in its place. All in the name of 'balance', of course.

I am personally not enjoying the so called 'buff". I was able to quickly obtain my first MOE in 56 games and was well on my way to the second mark at 76%. Then the 'buff' happens, I dropped to 62% in a three days. This tank was so fun to play pre 'buff' I could flank and destroy most heavies at will. Now the tank has a horrible reload time, the timing is completely off. This sucks the fun out of one of my favorites tanks. I had previously enjoyed this tank so much that I spent additional gold to apply Chinese inscriptions on the side and would play this daily, consistently making into the top five and playing this tank for the Chinese Team to easily earn the points for Tank Madness. The tank play is nothing like what I paid for, previously I shot the front of my opponent circled around and destroyed them, now they reload faster than the King Dragon and I take a horrible beating. I had no problem with taking on most tanks before the "buff'.

I purchased the King Dragon because I enjoyed the Type 59 so much. I prefer the quick loading flankers like the T23E3, Panzer V/IV and the Type 59.

I paid for very different kind of tank and enjoyed it so much to add customization, the new 'buff' sucks the fun out of the tank. At it's current state this tank will probably sit in my garage and collect dust, extremely disappointing, as this was not a cheap expenditure. Please return the King Dragon to its former glory or at least offer a selection between the two guns for those that prefer to play the type of tank they purchased?

I am so disappointed why have you ruined my tank!!!!

​Interesting. I personally like more that 390 alpha instead of old 250 alpha. DPM of King Dragon Type 59 was already bad so I think this new gun is much better and overall is better.

A very correct review of the "buffed" King Dragon. The 13.18 reload almost double the previous gun is changes this fantastic flanker to a mid to long range sniper. The point is I purchased a slightly buffed Type 59 which I have over 630 games in and now 300 games in the King Dragon. The play is dramatically different. Hell a M103 now has a faster reload. I want the tank I purchased, this reload time turns a previously fantastic tank into trash. I think the simple solution would be to offer both guns as the above you-tuber also advocates.

I am personally not enjoying the so called 'buff". I was able to quickly obtain my first MOE in 56 games and was well on my way to the second mark at 76%. Then the 'buff' happens, I dropped to 62% in a three days. This tank was so fun to play pre 'buff' I could flank and destroy most heavies at will. Now the tank has a horrible reload time, the timing is completely off. This sucks the fun out of one of my favorites tanks. I had previously enjoyed this tank so much that I spent additional gold to apply Chinese inscriptions on the side and would play this daily, consistently making into the top five and playing this tank for the Chinese Team to easily earn the points for Tank Madness. The tank play is nothing like what I paid for, previously I shot the front of my opponent circled around and destroyed them, now they reload faster than the King Dragon and I take a horrible beating. I had no problem with taking on most tanks before the "buff'.

I purchased the King Dragon because I enjoyed the Type 59 so much. I prefer the quick loading flankers like the T23E3, Panzer V/IV and the Type 59.

I paid for very different kind of tank and enjoyed it so much to add customization, the new 'buff' sucks the fun out of the tank. At it's current state this tank will probably sit in my garage and collect dust, extremely disappointing, as this was not a cheap expenditure. Please return the King Dragon to its former glory or at least offer a selection between the two guns for those that prefer to play the type of tank they purchased?

I am so disappointed why have you ruined my tank!!!!

It sucks that you feel it's ruined. I think the changes they made are a vast improvement. It now has the ability to trade and with much better shell velocity in addition. You're right that it's not what people paid for, but I would say it's better than what I paid for, so I'm fine with the changes.

A very correct review of the "buffed" King Dragon. The 13.18 reload almost double the previous gun is changes this fantastic flanker to a mid to long range sniper. The point is I purchased a slightly buffed Type 59 which I have over 630 games in and now 300 games in the King Dragon. The play is dramatically different. Hell a M103 now has a faster reload. I want the tank I purchased, this reload time turns a previously fantastic tank into trash. I think the simple solution would be to offer both guns as the above you-tuber also advocates.

Why would a tier having a lower rof than a tier 9 be some sort of shock to you? You understand the how silly your comparison is right?

It sucks that you feel it's ruined. I think the changes they made are a vast improvement. It now has the ability to trade and with much better shell velocity in addition. You're right that it's not what people paid for, but I would say it's better than what I paid for, so I'm fine with the changes.

Why would a tier having a lower rof than a tier 9 be some sort of shock to you? You understand the how silly your comparison is right?

I do not understand your logic on either point. I am speaking pre buff the reload was about 8.00 and with a trained crew and proper equipment about 6.5s now 13.18s for what was a flanking medium that easily killed the M103 solo, this kills the play value and makes it into a long to medium range sniper nothing like the Type 59. The fun value has been sucked out of the tank. Changing an awesome tank into a Revorilise with a bit more armor this is not what I purchased. I never would have purchased this with the current stats, I have a Revorilise from the earn ops and hate it. The play is so boring. I thoroughly enjoyed my Type 59 and original the King Dragon.

Most tier VIII mediums have a rate of fire faster than tier IX heavies such as Centurion 7.67s, Mutz 7.67, Motherland 8.00, and then outliers like the Revorilise at 12.27 and t34-3 at 13.4s. By your logic the T23e3 at 3,30s would be tier X. I fail to follow your rationale, if there is one..

I do not understand your logic on either point. I am speaking pre buff the reload was about 8.00 and with a trained crew and proper equipment about 6.5s now 13.18s for what was a flanking medium that easily killed the M103 solo, this kills the play value and makes it into a long to medium range sniper nothing like the Type 59. The fun value has been sucked out of the tank. Changing an awesome tank into a Revorilise with a bit more armor this is not what I purchased. I never would have purchased this with the current stats, I have a Revorilise from the earn ops and hate it. The play is so boring. I thoroughly enjoyed my Type 59 and original the King Dragon.

Most tier VIII mediums have a rate of fire faster than tier IX heavies such as Centurion 7.67s, Mutz 7.67, Motherland 8.00, and then outliers like the Revorilise at 12.27 and t34-3 at 13.4s. By your logic the T23e3 at 3,30s would be tier X. I fail to follow your rationale, if there is one..

I know the tank. I actually know it far better than you do. But, I always appreciate the effort to school me on a tank I've more than mastered.

Do you actually read what people write or just jump to a ridiculous conclusion about something that no one has said? Those tier 8 mediums have a faster rof because they have lower alpha (the ones you mentioned are 230-250 alpha) and lower pen. They're also a lower tier, so they shouldn't be better than tier 9s. The new King Dragon rof is in line with the Rev and T-34-3 (actually between them). You can't expect a tier 8 medium with that decent of armor and 390 alpha to have tier 9 rof as well.

In regards to your T23e3 comment a tanks rof doesn't determine tier. Especially when you take into account alpha, pen, and tiers of tanks you go up against.

I know the tank. I actually know it far better than you do. But, I always appreciate the effort to school me on a tank I've more than mastered.

Do you actually read what people write or just jump to a ridiculous conclusion about something that no one has said? Those tier 8 mediums have a faster rof because they have lower alpha (the ones you mentioned are 230-250 alpha) and lower pen. They're also a lower tier, so they shouldn't be better than tier 9s. The new King Dragon rof is in line with the Rev and T-34-3 (actually between them). You can't expect a tier 8 medium with that decent of armor and 390 alpha to have tier 9 rof as well.

In regards to your T23e3 comment a tanks rof doesn't determine tier. Especially when you take into account alpha, pen, and tiers of tanks you go up against.

You just argued against your previous statement and made my point.

Your point was "Why would a tier having a lower ROF than a tier 9 be some sort of shock to you? You understand the how silly your comparison is right?". A fallacious statement since most mediums have a higher rate of fire than heavies and the original King Dragon had a higher ROF than the M103.

My point was lower alpha tanks i.e mediums usually have higher rate of fire and lower alpha with the exception of the Revoralise/ HMH M51 and T34-3.

The point is the King dragon was sold as a Type 59 type of tank high rate of fire lower alpha and then changed into a Revoralise type tank high alpha and low rate of fire.

I purchased a Type 59 class of tank high ROF lower pen. If the tank was originally sold as Revoralise clone high pen LOF I would not have purchased the tank.

No one is arguing for a high rate of fire high alpha tank, merely to return the tank to the type of tank that was offered and was originally purchased or offer a dual gun selection, your argument is sophistry at its finest.

No one is disputing or questioning your prowess at this video game, merely arguing for a return to the type of tank that was purchased originally. I am sure we can agree the play styles are completely different and the new King Dragon's armament is nothing like the original offering.

A simple analogy is, if I purchase a black Audi S5 with a high performance 4.2 l V8 and take into the dealer for an oil change a month later and the dealer swapped my vehicle for the standard black A5 with a 4 cylinder 2.0 l engine and called it an upgrade because it gets better gas mileage. This may be an upgrade at some levels but not in others. The point is, this is not what was offered at the time of sale or what I ultimately decided to exchange my cash for.

Your point was "Why would a tier having a lower ROF than a tier 9 be some sort of shock to you? You understand the how silly your comparison is right?". A fallacious statement since most mediums have a higher rate of fire than heavies and the original King Dragon had a higher ROF than the M103.

My point was lower alpha tanks i.e mediums usually have higher rate of fire and lower alpha with the exception of the Revoralise/ HMH M51 and T34-3.

The point is the King dragon was sold as a Type 59 type of tank high rate of fire lower alpha and then changed into a Revoralise type tank high alpha and low rate of fire.

I purchased a Type 59 class of tank high ROF lower pen. If the tank was originally sold as Revoralise clone high pen LOF I would not have purchased the tank.

No one is arguing for a high rate of fire high alpha tank, merely to return the tank to the type of tank that was offered and was originally purchased or offer a dual gun selection, your argument is sophistry at its finest.

No one is disputing or questioning your prowess at this video game, merely arguing for a return to the type of tank that was purchased originally. I am sure we can agree the play styles are completely different and the new King Dragon's armament is nothing like the original offering.

A simple analogy is, if I purchase a black Audi S5 with a high performance 4.2 l V8 and take into the dealer for an oil change a month later and the dealer swapped my vehicle for the standard black A5 with a 4 cylinder 2.0 l engine and called it an upgrade because it gets better gas mileage. This may be an upgrade at some levels but not in others. The point is, this is not what was offered at the time of sale or what I ultimately decided to exchange my cash for.

No I didn't. Especially considering you were referring to the King Dragon's 390 alpha and it's reload now, not the 250 alpha that it had. Which prompted my first response that you quoted. You then brought up other mediums with alpha ranging from 230-250 in your response which I only brought up after you did. The King Dragon only had a higher rof when it had 250 alpha to the M103's 400 alpha. Since it now has 390 alpha the reload shouldn't be on par with a fully upgraded tier 9.

The King Dragon had an abysmal reload for 250 alpha, even worse than the Type 59 itself (which already has piss poor dpm and doesn't see tier 10) and worse than every other tier 8 premium medium without PMM. I have a comparison for you. All of these tanks are tier 8 premium mediums with very similar alpha ranging from 230-250 and see tier 10s. With the only exception being the Type 59 so you know the relative rof between the Type 59 and original King Dragon.

Type 59: 6.9 rpm

King Dragon(with 100mm): 6.67 rpm

Primo Victoria: 8 rpm

T25 Pilot: 7.69 rpm

Patton KR: 7.41 rpm

Mutz: 7.5 rpm

Huntsman: 7.5 rpm

Chieftain T95: 7.23 rpm

FV4202: 7.5 rpm

T-44-100: 8 rpm

T-54 proto: 7.5 rpm

AMX CDC: 8.22 rpm

Edleweiss: 8 rpm

59 Patton: 8 rpm

As you can clearly see the King Dragon had the lowest dpm and worst reload of any premium tier 8 medium that sees tier 10 when it had the 100mm gun compared to similar alpha tanks. So in fact no, it didn't have a high rate of fire. It was even lower than the Type 59 that only sees tier 9. The big difference between the King Dragon and Type 59 was that the King Dragon got extra crew training, better aim time, slightly improved accuracy, slightly better pen, and better gun handling; while the downsides being slightly lower dpm and seeing tier 10s.

I do agree that yes the overall the play style has changed and it should be an option to choose which gun but that's not up to me. However with the 105mm it has now has better dpm (from 1,667.5 to 1774.5) and accuracy (from 0.37 to 0.36), albeit only slightly.

Your point was "Why would a tier having a lower ROF than a tier 9 be some sort of shock to you? You understand the how silly your comparison is right?". A fallacious statement since most mediums have a higher rate of fire than heavies and the original King Dragon had a higher ROF than the M103.

My point was lower alpha tanks i.e mediums usually have higher rate of fire and lower alpha with the exception of the Revoralise/ HMH M51 and T34-3.

The point is the King dragon was sold as a Type 59 type of tank high rate of fire lower alpha and then changed into a Revoralise type tank high alpha and low rate of fire.

I purchased a Type 59 class of tank high ROF lower pen. If the tank was originally sold as Revoralise clone high pen LOF I would not have purchased the tank.

No one is arguing for a high rate of fire high alpha tank, merely to return the tank to the type of tank that was offered and was originally purchased or offer a dual gun selection, your argument is sophistry at its finest.

No one is disputing or questioning your prowess at this video game, merely arguing for a return to the type of tank that was purchased originally. I am sure we can agree the play styles are completely different and the new King Dragon's armament is nothing like the original offering.

A simple analogy is, if I purchase a black Audi S5 with a high performance 4.2 l V8 and take into the dealer for an oil change a month later and the dealer swapped my vehicle for the standard black A5 with a 4 cylinder 2.0 l engine and called it an upgrade because it gets better gas mileage. This may be an upgrade at some levels but not in others. The point is, this is not what was offered at the time of sale or what I ultimately decided to exchange my cash for.

I think you still dont get it. So let me do my best to explain the point. The tanks you're using that have a high ROF are low alpha guns. Your exceptions, The HMH/Rev and T34-3 are High alpha guns. The KD is no longer a low alpha gun so its ROF is slower. How hard is that to understand? You also appear to be confused about how tier affects ROF. When you have two tanks that have the same alpha, generally the lower tier one is going to have a slower rof.

I think you still dont get it. So let me do my best to explain the point. The tanks you're using that have a high ROF are low alpha guns. Your exceptions, The HMH/Rev and T34-3 are High alpha guns. The KD is no longer a low alpha gun so its ROF is slower. How hard is that to understand? You also appear to be confused about how tier affects ROF. When you have two tanks that have the same alpha, generally the lower tier one is going to have a slower rof.

No I didn't. Especially considering you were referring to the King Dragon's 390 alpha and it's reload now, not the 250 alpha that it had. Which prompted my first response that you quoted. You then brought up other mediums with alpha ranging from 230-250 in your response which I only brought up after you did. The King Dragon only had a higher rof when it had 250 alpha to the M103's 400 alpha. Since it now has 390 alpha the reload shouldn't be on par with a fully upgraded tier 9.

The King Dragon had an abysmal reload for 250 alpha, even worse than the Type 59 itself (which already has piss poor dpm and doesn't see tier 10) and worse than every other tier 8 premium medium without PMM. I have a comparison for you. All of these tanks are tier 8 premium mediums with very similar alpha ranging from 230-250 and see tier 10s. With the only exception being the Type 59 so you know the relative rof between the Type 59 and original King Dragon.

Type 59: 6.9 rpm

King Dragon(with 100mm): 6.67 rpm

Primo Victoria: 8 rpm

T25 Pilot: 7.69 rpm

Patton KR: 7.41 rpm

Mutz: 7.5 rpm

Huntsman: 7.5 rpm

Chieftain T95: 7.23 rpm

FV4202: 7.5 rpm

T-44-100: 8 rpm

T-54 proto: 7.5 rpm

AMX CDC: 8.22 rpm

Edleweiss: 8 rpm

59 Patton: 8 rpm

As you can clearly see the King Dragon had the lowest dpm and worst reload of any premium tier 8 medium that sees tier 10 when it had the 100mm gun compared to similar alpha tanks. So in fact no, it didn't have a high rate of fire. It was even lower than the Type 59 that only sees tier 9. The big difference between the King Dragon and Type 59 was that the King Dragon got extra crew training, better aim time, slightly improved accuracy, slightly better pen, and better gun handling; while the downsides being slightly lower dpm and seeing tier 10s.

I do agree that yes the overall the play style has changed and it should be an option to choose which gun but that's not up to me. However with the 105mm it has now has better dpm (from 1,667.5 to 1774.5) and accuracy (from 0.37 to 0.36), albeit only slightly.

Leaving out your first three sentences, which I will attribute to a misunderstanding of semantics, not worth revisiting. I agree with everything you stated. I personally greatly preferred the original tank which I purchased and played 300 games prior to the change of its armament. My experience is very similar the you tubers which I posted.

Leaving out your first three sentences, which I will attribute to a misunderstanding of semantics, not worth revisiting. I agree with everything you stated. I personally greatly preferred the original tank which I purchased and played 300 games prior to the change of its armament. My experience is very similar the you tubers which I posted.

Here's how the conversation went (with literally no semantics whatsoever because I don't think you know the meaning of the word).

You brought up the long reload with the 390 alpha and compared it the M103.

I brought up that it's a tier lower so it should be longer.

You brought up other tier 8 mediums with lower alpha and faster reload that I hadn't mentioned.

I responded to your comment on tanks with lower alpha. I said they should shoot faster because they're lower alpha which the King Dragon no longer is.

You somehow mistook all of that as me contradicting myself, which I clearly wasn't.

You very obviously not being able to follow your own train of thought and arguments has nothing to do with me contradicting myself.

Since you insist on carrying on with this inane dialogue, I will engage, however without the condescending remarks you feel the need to interject into a civil discussion

S5_Hell a M103 now has a faster reload. I want the tank I purchased, this reload time turns a previously fantastic tank into trash. I think the simple solution would be to offer both guns as the above you-tuber also advocates.

Shril_Why would a tier having a lower rof than a tier 9 be some sort of shock to you? You understand the how silly your comparison is right?

This seems to be the statement you are defending, however you and I have both cited numerous examples of tanks having a higher rate of fire than a tier 9.

I never advocated for a high alpha, high rate of fire tank, merely the tank I purchased.

Since you insist on carrying on with this inane dialogue, I will engage, however without the condescending remarks you feel the need to interject into a civil discussion

S5_Hell a M103 now has a faster reload. I want the tank I purchased, this reload time turns a previously fantastic tank into trash. I think the simple solution would be to offer both guns as the above you-tuber also advocates.

Shril_Why would a tier having a lower rof than a tier 9 be some sort of shock to you? You understand the how silly your comparison is right?

This seems to be the statement you are defending, however you and I have both cited numerous examples of tanks having a higher rate of fire than a tier 9.

I never advocated for a high alpha, high rate of fire tank, merely the tank I purchased.

This has gotten to a point that's more ridiculous than me trying to teach calculus to a ficus. But, I'll try one last time.

You brought up the King Dragons reload with 105mm and 390 alpha and how it's worse than the M103.

A completely understandable and rational thing by WG because the alphas are similar and the King Dragon is tier 8 while the M103 is tier 9.

Which is what I responded to.

You then deiced to bring up tanks with faster reloads yet you somehow failed to understand that comes at the cost of significantly lower alpha. Which is what I mentioned in my response.

You somehow took this as me contradicting my own point when in reality I was merely responding to your completely off base comparison.

I then proceeded to give a comparison of every tier 8 medium premium without PMM to show you that even with the 100mm it had the worst reload and dpm in it's class.

Honestly, a 5 year old can follow logic this simple.

sledge6301, on 12 April 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

There is no point of arguing this WG did something this time that absolutley has destroyed my desire to ever buy one more Premium tank.

When you research and buy a tank you all look at the playstyle and the numbers why? Because there are so many that kind of are just the same.

For me it was not the color it was the flanking ability fast reload and to assist heavy tanks by circling around taken out enemie tanks.

Yes i can agree that it is nice to have a 105 gun but that was not why i bought this tank.

WG Please correct this by giving the option of choice we already have payed the gold and money and it is a easy fix by giving the King Dragon a option.

The King Dragon never had a fast reload. It's only fast in comparison to what it has now. It literally had one the worst reloads, if not the worst, for any medium at tier 8 with a similar caliber gun. How do you neither you nor S5 V8 not understand this? You both also need to learn the difference between 'fast' and 'faster' and I would recommend a dictionary.