This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the FAQ and RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate and remove the ads - it's free!

Re: France's Le Pen, in Moscow, blames EU for new 'Cold War'

Originally Posted by The German

Jobbik, Front National, FPÖ, NPD and various other very horrible right wing European parties support Putins actions because they are anti-Western and also mean that European borders are no longer holy and unquestionable.

. . .

I have heard the European right wing support of Putins lates actions mentioned very often. What people dont mention is that the European radical left (yes there is a radical left almoust as despicable as the radical right in Europe) also support his actions because they are anti Western. Die Linke in Germany has probably been the most vocal supporter of Putins recent actions in Germany.

That is all extremely simplistic. Russia at present is a bit of an oddity. People trying to compare the current Russia to the Soviets or the Tsars are just looking to condemn it as a fascist regime rather than doing any careful analysis of its political system and governing philosophy. The reason Putin can get support from radical leftists and far-right nationalists is that he has pioneered a form of left-wing nationalism that can appeal to both groups. It helps that the "far-right" itself has moved decidedly to the left over the past few decades. Of course, Fascism was ultimately a nationalist derivation of traditional left-wing ideology, so it is not too surprising that they would have some left-wing inclinations. Yet World War II eventually led to the repudiation of the more right-leaning ideology associated with Adolf Hitler in favor of the views of Gregor Strasser who was killed during the Night of the Long Knives. At the same time the far-left became increasingly nationalist due to a rejection of Soviet hegemony, itself the product of growing nationalism within the Soviet Union.

Originally Posted by The German

Especialy now I have this feeling that with a little bit more destablisation the continent can collapse into chaos again.

The main reason why I am so skeptical of Europe's prospects in any trade war with Russia is the issue you are talking about. Russia is strong and unified politically, economy, and socially. In contrast, the European Union is riddled with division and weakness. You have division between national political parties, between regions with the nation, and then you have the various Union-wide divisions. Europe is weak economically as we all know, politically the union is weak, and you have a broad social weakness. A product of various ill-conceived policies that made sense when they were merely a major outpost of the American front against the "communist threat", but are no longer viable in the post-Soviet order. The main result of the collapse was that the EU took on the suicidally defiant east who are, despite their obstinance, even weaker on all counts. Save for greater national pride, they have less going for them. You have the far-right, far-left, Eurosceptics, Europhiles, and various secessionist movements all mixed in with rising radical Islam in there as well.

Pressures like economic calamity or war can easily make the whole thing break apart. Given the current state of the European economy, calamity would be terribly easy to induce for any major outside power, such as Russia, and I do not expect that to be any less true in future years.

"For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"- Khalil Gibran

Re: France's Le Pen, in Moscow, blames EU for new 'Cold War'

Originally Posted by MildSteel

I wonder what is behind the far right in Europe taking this position.

You really have to ask? The "far right" (rather, the extreme statists who are open about their xenophobia, unlike their Commie twins - except in Russia) and the "far left" (did you miss all the hammer-and-crooked-knife banners and portraits of Stalin in the "pro-Russian" opera choruses in Crimea?) do share core values: collectivism, worship of brute power, admiration for "strong leaders", contempt for individual freedoms, visceral hatred of America, etc, etc.

Re: France's Le Pen, in Moscow, blames EU for new 'Cold War'

Originally Posted by Demon of Light

That is all extremely simplistic. Russia at present is a bit of an oddity. People trying to compare the current Russia to the Soviets or the Tsars are just looking to condemn it as a fascist regime rather than doing any careful analysis of its political system and governing philosophy. The reason Putin can get support from radical leftists and far-right nationalists is that he has pioneered a form of left-wing nationalism that can appeal to both groups. It helps that the "far-right" itself has moved decidedly to the left over the past few decades. Of course, Fascism was ultimately a nationalist derivation of traditional left-wing ideology, so it is not too surprising that they would have some left-wing inclinations. Yet World War II eventually led to the repudiation of the more right-leaning ideology associated with Adolf Hitler in favor of the views of Gregor Strasser who was killed during the Night of the Long Knives. At the same time the far-left became increasingly nationalist due to a rejection of Soviet hegemony, itself the product of growing nationalism within the Soviet Union.

The main reason why I am so skeptical of Europe's prospects in any trade war with Russia is the issue you are talking about. Russia is strong and unified politically, economy, and socially. In contrast, the European Union is riddled with division and weakness. You have division between national political parties, between regions with the nation, and then you have the various Union-wide divisions. Europe is weak economically as we all know, politically the union is weak, and you have a broad social weakness. A product of various ill-conceived policies that made sense when they were merely a major outpost of the American front against the "communist threat", but are no longer viable in the post-Soviet order. The main result of the collapse was that the EU took on the suicidally defiant east who are, despite their obstinance, even weaker on all counts. Save for greater national pride, they have less going for them. You have the far-right, far-left, Eurosceptics, Europhiles, and various secessionist movements all mixed in with rising radical Islam in there as well.

Pressures like economic calamity or war can easily make the whole thing break apart. Given the current state of the European economy, calamity would be terribly easy to induce for any major outside power, such as Russia, and I do not expect that to be any less true in future years.