Thursday, February 26, 2009

(7:09:51 AM) jgarnett: morning!(7:10:00 AM) jgarnett: I am getting better at this (and getting better)(7:10:10 AM) emily_g: good afternoon :P(7:10:19 AM) jgarnett: this should be my last week of coming into the office early to attend these things(7:11:06 AM) jgarnett: (finally ordered internet for my house)(7:11:19 AM) jgarnett: I am going to send a quick email to the list and see if we can scare up more people(7:11:21 AM) emily_g: how exciting(7:11:35 AM) jgarnett: but there is some interesting things going on SoC, FOSS4G workshop deadline etc(7:12:32 AM) jgarnett: how is your hacking going emily?(7:13:12 AM) emily_g: good for now I think I'm mostly done what I need to do(7:13:30 AM) emily_g: I'm still now sure how to deal with udig community module relying on the unsupported geotools module(7:13:57 AM) emily_g: I've been committing a jar file which I know is a very bad thing :)(7:14:03 AM) jgarnett: gak!(7:14:07 AM) jgarnett: well there are two ways(7:14:50 AM) jgarnett: 1. make the geotools module supported; we really should not be selling our customers less (the supported mechansim exists mostly as a measure of quality). The process work gdavis did is in a similar bind I am afraid(7:15:12 AM) jgarnett: 2. do not make it supported; and make udig libs suck up the dependency(7:15:29 AM) jgarnett: Question - is this just a code dependency? Or is does it need to hook into the geotools factory finder thing?(7:16:14 AM) jgarnett: Finally you could have a refresh.xml script fetch the jar (copy the one out of libs); or we can modify the refresh.xml script in libs to copy the jar into your module (so there is still a single refresh.xml script to run)(7:16:21 AM) jgarnett: but these are all good questions(7:16:34 AM) emily_g: I'm not sure I understand what that means - the geotools factory finder thing ?(7:18:41 AM) jgarnett: geotools has a plugin system(7:18:53 AM) jgarnett: (ie not the plugin system eclipse uses; but one called FactorySPI that comes with java)(7:19:18 AM) jgarnett: it depends on looking up a magic file in the jar MANIFEST(7:19:35 AM) emily_g: Well my udig module doesn't make direct use of factory finders, but I think the geotools caching module may(7:19:42 AM) jgarnett: actuall a magical folder called services/ that has text files listing all the "factory service provider interfaces"(7:20:01 AM) jgarnett: the question is does your geotools caching modules have ones of these services/ folder(7:20:16 AM) emily_g: no I don't think so(7:20:18 AM) jgarnett: (you can see an example in geotools main; where the services directory is used to list all the function implementations for example)(7:20:40 AM) jgarnett: okay; if it did have a services/ folder it would *have* to go into net.refractions.udig.libs or it would not work(7:21:16 AM) jgarnett: what is your module that uses the caching?(7:21:31 AM) jgarnett: is it your own community module; or did you need to work on the udig wfs module?(7:22:00 AM) emily_g: it's my own community module(7:22:06 AM) jgarnett: (aside here is the geotools documentation on factory spi - http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTDOC/05+How+to+write+a+Plugin+-+from+Interface+to+Factory)(7:22:22 AM) jgarnett: okay; since it is your own work everything is up to you(7:22:42 AM) jgarnett: if you were intergrating this into core udig I would get all frumpy and do a code review(7:22:43 AM) emily_g: community/emily/net.refractions.udig.catalog.wfs.cache(7:22:53 AM) jgarnett: as a community module we can treat it as a proof of concept.(7:22:57 AM) emily_g: well quiet frankly that's the boring code; (7:23:04 AM) emily_g: the caching code in geotools is much more exciting(7:23:35 AM) jgarnett: when/if you did want this in udig we would seriously look at cleaning up the geotools module and making it supported (either adding the functionality into core geotools or signing up as a module maintainer for the thing)(7:24:08 AM) jgarnett: if I was your customer I would be asking for this of course :-) Perhaps you can suggest it as a phase 2 (now that you know the approach is worth following)(7:24:29 AM) emily_g: hmm okay good advice (7:24:30 AM) jgarnett: aside: Andrea was thinking of another code sprint; either based on a bug fix run or on a new functionality run(7:24:41 AM) jgarnett: adding caching would be cool idea(7:24:43 AM) emily_g: I'll put it on my list(7:25:11 AM) jgarnett: (and would provide symetry with the TileCache work; uDig 1.2 would then feature caching for both wfs and wms resources)(7:25:17 AM) emily_g: it would be nice to try to clean up some of the bugs in "core" functionality of udig(7:25:36 AM) jgarnett: agreed; the code sprint format seemed productive.(7:25:46 AM) jgarnett: I may as well ask if there is any good time slot for you this month?(7:25:53 AM) jgarnett: perhaps we can set an initial time...(7:26:04 AM) emily_g: no good time; jan-mar is usually bad time here(7:26:13 AM) emily_g: april/may might be better but further off(7:26:47 AM) emily_g: I would be willing to pick a bug or two and try to fix them in my spare time; but the problem I had with that(7:26:55 AM) emily_g: is that I went and look a jira and got confused and scared(7:27:59 AM) emily_g: I couldn't really easily figure out what bugs were current; what were fixed or what I could do that was useful(7:28:08 AM) emily_g: I suspect that stems partly from my inexperience(7:28:36 AM) jgarnett: it is partly from Jira bugs being automatically assigned to people who are not around anymore like Richard :-P(7:29:03 AM) sidlon: basic question: if i have an image, like a satellite photo of an area... do you know if there's any way in uDig to display that along with shapefile data? would that be a raster layer?(7:29:04 AM) jgarnett: I understand that year end is a bad time for you(7:29:18 AM) jgarnett: yes that would be a raster layer.(7:29:35 AM) jgarnett: many stellite photos have the information inside them about where they should be displayed.(7:29:43 AM) jgarnett: if it is a simple png or jpg they will not(7:29:51 AM) jgarnett: and you need a seperate text file to say where it should be on the world(7:30:00 AM) sidlon: so if i have a jpeg, are there tools i can use to add the geo info to them?(7:30:03 AM) jgarnett: (this is called the "world + image" format and is documented in the udig help menu)(7:30:31 AM) jgarnett: you can actually just do it yourself with a text editor like notepad(7:30:49 AM) jgarnett: a couple people have made tools for you to position the image on the screen; but I am not aware of any of them going public(7:31:00 AM) jgarnett: let me find you a link to one that was written around udig (but not folded in)(7:31:32 AM) jgarnett: http://udig.refractions.net/files/downloads/flightline/(7:31:57 AM) jgarnett: here is documentation on the world plus image format(7:31:58 AM) jgarnett: http://udig.refractions.net/confluence/display/EN/World+Plus+Image(7:32:08 AM) jgarnett: hopefully that is enough to get you going?(7:32:31 AM) jgarnett: as I said most satillite images will be in TIFF format; and when they fold the location information into the file it is called "GeoTiff"(7:32:38 AM) jgarnett: where are you getting your photo from?(7:32:49 AM) jgarnett: (it may already just work)(7:32:50 AM) sidlon: i think this will definitely help. thanks!(7:33:43 AM) sidlon: i'm looking to create an application that can accept satellite imagery & shapefiles (for roads etc) and display them together(7:34:11 AM) jgarnett: well you found one(7:34:30 AM) jgarnett: and if you go through the tutorials you will see how to create your own custom application (using udig as a base)(7:34:44 AM) sidlon: then maybe write a plugin to generate an xml describing the combined scene(7:35:05 AM) jgarnett: I hope you find the documentation in order; we have made some of the high quality intro documentation public on the website - but much of the advanced stuff is part of our commercial training course(7:35:07 AM) jgarnett: ah!(7:35:13 AM) jgarnett: there is already a plugin to do that(7:35:19 AM) jgarnett: but I have not had a chance to make it work recently(7:35:24 AM) jgarnett: perhaps you would like to work on it(7:35:30 AM) jgarnett: a scene is called a "context"(7:35:42 AM) jgarnett: so the plugin writes an "OWS Context" file(7:36:09 AM) jgarnett: "ows" = open web service - but the actually do more than that now allowing people to document shapefiles; and google maps and stuff for the web programs.(7:36:43 AM) jgarnett: At the very least the plugin can show you how to write you a description of a scene; and how to create a map when reading the description back in(7:37:02 AM) jgarnett: http://www.ogcnetwork.net/context is the formal docs(7:37:15 AM) sidlon: so far i'm definitely impressed w/ everything uDig can do... i really appreciate this help(7:38:00 AM) sidlon: one last question... is there currently, or would it be possible for me to right, code to merge layers?(7:38:08 AM) sidlon: (write)(7:40:39 AM) sidlon: basically i'd like to make it possible for the user to load a number of shapefiles covering different areas and save them to a single shapefile(7:40:54 AM) jgarnett: I would like to say yes(7:40:58 AM) jgarnett: since you can do almost anything in code(7:41:05 AM) jgarnett: but the shapefile format is limited to a single kind of feature at a time(7:41:13 AM) jgarnett: (ie all points, or all lines, or all polygons)(7:41:30 AM) jgarnett: also it only stores one kind of feature; so all the featues would need a single set of attributes(7:41:38 AM) sidlon: gotcha... so if i had 2 polygon shapefiles, they could be merged maybe?(7:41:43 AM) jgarnett: right now you can do that(7:41:57 AM) jgarnett: load up one shapefile; select all, copy, and paste into your new layer(7:42:01 AM) jgarnett: and repeate for the other layer(7:42:10 AM) jgarnett: but understand that the attributes will not be merged or anything(7:42:27 AM) jgarnett: look at the reshape operations for an example of how to manipulate attributes (rename; recalculate, etc...)(7:42:27 AM) sidlon: ok. i think i understand. thanks again!(7:42:42 AM) jgarnett: you would need to make both layers have the same attributes in order to merge them(7:49:55 AM) jgarnett: okay I think we are winded down - thanks for the chat guys(7:50:11 AM) emily_g: thanks jody(7:50:13 AM) emily_g: have a great day

Thursday, February 12, 2009

(7:12:14 AM) silli: morning all!(7:12:27 AM) silli: unfortunately moovida is sick(7:12:36 AM) silli: and can not join the IRC(7:15:34 AM) emily_g: I have a question about udig libs & building udig (I'm getting a bunch of errors)(7:15:50 AM) jgarnett: okay cool; lets set an agenda ...(7:16:12 AM) jgarnett has changed the topic to: 0) what is up 1) udig and building(7:16:45 AM) jgarnett: I was thinking of talking to moovida about the table view problem I fixed; and seeing if anyone wanted to back port it to 1.1.x.(7:17:08 AM) jgarnett: anything else worth talking about? We should be doing something with SoC I guess.(7:17:28 AM) jgarnett: Right now the best thing we can do is make sure we have time to act as sponsors(7:17:45 AM) jgarnett: sorry mentors(7:17:55 AM) jgarnett: emily_g are you interested in mentoring this year?(7:18:25 AM) emily_g: I have no idea what is involved in mentoring ...(7:18:58 AM) jgarnett: there is a nice page on it somewhere; but the actual work kind of depends on how dialed in the student you get is(7:19:39 AM) jgarnett: I have gotten away with code reviews and email before; others have had failure even with spending lots of time(7:19:47 AM) jgarnett: Suppose I will send it to the email list ...(7:19:49 AM) jgarnett: 0) what is up(7:20:02 AM) emily_g: I will do some reading and think about it(7:20:21 AM) jgarnett: jgarnett - fixed table view; not sure if anyone wants that backported to 1.1.x. May get some time to hack this weekend.(7:20:50 AM) emily_g: emily - still poking away at feature caching(7:22:37 AM) jgarnett: 1) udig and building(7:22:47 AM) emily_g: so I updated udig this morning(7:23:00 AM) jgarnett: so where are you at emily? there was some issue with imageio-ext jars not being deployed to the osgeo repo; but that is fixed now?(7:23:01 AM) emily_g: and libs gives me errors(7:23:08 AM) jgarnett: (I have not done that yet; let me try now)(7:23:12 AM) emily_g: package org.geotools.arcsde.gce.band does not exist in this plug-in(7:23:29 AM) jgarnett: ah(7:23:30 AM) emily_g: same for org.geotools.arcsde.gce.imageio & org.geotools.arcsde.gce.producter(7:23:41 AM) jgarnett: gabriel has been hacking away at arcsde hard these last couple of days(7:23:50 AM) jgarnett: and some of the package names may of changed(7:24:00 AM) jgarnett: so here are the two ways it could break us(7:24:23 AM) jgarnett: - gabriel may be testing in udig; and updating udig as he goes; but if he has not deployed his geotools changes we will have trouble(7:24:38 AM) jgarnett: - or he may of deployed his geotools changes; and nobody has updated udig libs yet(7:24:58 AM) emily_g: I think it may be the second(7:25:19 AM) jgarnett: There is a single button "update" you can do; called organized manifests ... I tend to do it by hand so I can hide a few projects that we(7:25:22 AM) emily_g: as I don't see any commits related to sde in the last few days(7:25:50 AM) jgarnett: I am going to duck over to the geotools list and ask(7:26:30 AM) groldan [n=groldan@host179.201-253-34.telecom.net.ar] entered the room.(7:26:35 AM) groldan: hello(7:26:35 AM) jgarnett: hi gabriel(7:26:46 AM) groldan: hi there(7:26:53 AM) jgarnett: emily_g reports our udig build broken; something about package changes in arcsde(7:27:04 AM) jgarnett: did you deploy your changes?(7:27:16 AM) jgarnett: (if so we need to update udig libs)(7:27:17 AM) emily_g: package org.geotools.arcsde.gce.band does not exist in this plug-in (7:27:23 AM) groldan: hum, I only changed package names in the gce stuff(7:27:28 AM) emily_g: same for org.geotools.arcsde.gce.imageio & org.geotools.arcsde.gce.producer(7:27:38 AM) groldan: ok, so its just a matter of removing those packages from the manifest(7:27:55 AM) groldan: yup, there's a single org.geotools.arcsde.gce package now(7:28:00 AM) groldan: (we're doing more with less code)(7:28:27 AM) emily_g: sounds good; I will remove them from the udig manifest and commit the fix(7:28:29 AM) emily_g: thanks(7:28:31 AM) groldan: so please just remove those packages from the manifest, I don't have a udig dev env at hand(7:28:38 AM) groldan: thanks emily_g (7:29:15 AM) groldan: FYI all this fuss is to have something like this: http://arcy.opengeo.org:8080/geoserver/wms?bbox=33001.0,774001.0,333001.0,961999.0&styles=&Format=application/openlayers&request=GetMap&version=1.1.1&layers=massgis:SDE.IMG_USGSQUADM&width=800&height=470&srs=EPSG:26986(7:29:17 AM) groldan: :)(7:29:49 AM) emily_g: nice :)(7:30:17 AM) jgarnett: fun; performance seems good too(7:31:06 AM) groldan: yup, thanks to JAI :)(7:31:09 AM) jgarnett: gabriel your email on this subject was so dense I have not made it through yet(7:31:20 AM) jgarnett: I trust Saul is giving you most of the feedback you need(7:31:27 AM) groldan: ouch, I liked the rant(7:31:29 AM) groldan: :/(7:31:42 AM) jgarnett: is there anything else fun that you would like to talk about?(7:31:46 AM) groldan: still, most of it shall go end up to the wiky though(7:32:01 AM) jgarnett: (not a rant; you do not send email - and then you send one big one)(7:32:16 AM) groldan: he, bad groldan(7:32:45 AM) jgarnett: does arcsde support nD grids?(7:33:07 AM) groldan: hum, supports N-band ones(7:33:17 AM) jgarnett: yeah(7:33:21 AM) dassouki [n=a_d@fctnnbsc15w-156034075039.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] entered the room.(7:33:24 AM) groldan: but I don't think it matches the nD concept(7:33:47 AM) groldan: they're _rasters_, 2D(7:34:00 AM) jgarnett: It kind of can; if you make your own color model based on the number of bands etc...(7:34:02 AM) jgarnett: oh okay(7:34:06 AM) jgarnett: that is fine; just asking(7:34:19 AM) groldan: and yeah, I'm having a lot of fun to support raster catalogs now(7:34:37 AM) jgarnett: reading your email about "fail if there is no support for the raster's format and number of bands" - I think you do not need to fail is all(7:34:41 AM) groldan: see my previous chat with simboss at #geoserver(7:34:54 AM) jgarnett: thinking(7:35:02 AM) jgarnett: so what do you need to hook this up in uDig?(7:35:13 AM) groldan: a little bit of time(7:35:18 AM) groldan: (the spare one)(7:35:19 AM) jgarnett: we need to be able to discover what grid coverages are available; how is that handled on the arcsde side?(7:35:31 AM) groldan: but its something I really want to do(7:35:41 AM) groldan: raster_columns table(7:36:00 AM) emily_g: jgarentt - i removed those packages and now I get another error - libs is missing library lib/beam-1.0.jar; does this mean anything to you?(7:36:08 AM) jgarnett: cool(7:36:11 AM) jgarnett: thinking(7:36:48 AM) groldan: yeah I can add an ArcSDERasterFormat.getAvaliableRasters():List method with ease(7:36:52 AM) groldan: or such(7:37:05 AM) silli left the room.(7:37:17 AM) jgarnett: I have it in mine emily_g; but I can run again. What it would mean (if it is not there and you did your libs from scratch) is that beam is no longer a dependency(7:37:33 AM) jgarnett: (we get random jars dropped on us via maven dependency; sometimes they go away as well)(7:37:56 AM) jgarnett: groldan++ if you have a method like that we can make a list of raster children(7:38:04 AM) jgarnett: um but are we likely to have a list of thousands?(7:38:15 AM) jgarnett: like more than the number of tables (7:38:38 AM) jgarnett: do they have any kind of organization to the raster? Or perhaps the rasters can be very big ... not really sure of the arcsde model(7:40:52 AM) groldan: catching up...(7:41:24 AM) groldan: list of thousands: you'll have a list as big as the number of rasters are registered, just like for FeatureTypes(7:41:35 AM) jgarnett: fair enough(7:41:41 AM) groldan: I don't quite get why you say more than the number of tables?(7:41:56 AM) jgarnett: hopefully we can get some good descriptive information out of them as well; so users can find what they want(7:42:11 AM) groldan: hehe, I'm your friend here(7:42:21 AM) jgarnett: I have seen rasters represented as values in a database table before(7:42:26 AM) jgarnett: a big old blob(7:42:30 AM) groldan: check out http://arcy.opengeo.org:8080/geoserver/ows?service=WCS&request=GetCapabilities(7:42:59 AM) groldan: look at the abstract info for the ones in the massgis namespace(7:43:11 AM) groldan: I'm building quite a nice ResourceInfo here(7:43:21 AM) jgarnett: SDE.IMG_COQ2001_CLIP_BOS_1 is an ArcSDE Raster(7:43:25 AM) groldan: and made the geoserver config to get the default description from ResourceInfo(7:43:32 AM) jgarnett: really? SDE.IMG_COQ2001.....(7:43:38 AM) jgarnett: for the title :-)(7:43:47 AM) groldan: uh?(7:44:24 AM) groldan: what tile?(7:44:27 AM) jgarnett: this looks like the ID has been turned into a tilte(7:44:52 AM) jgarnett: for massgis:SDE.IMG_BWORTHOS_CLIP_BOS the title is SDE.IMG_COQ2001_CLIP_BOS_1 is an ArcSDE Raster(7:45:24 AM) jgarnett: a lot of the titles have the " is an ArcSDE Raster"(7:45:41 AM) groldan: agreed, bad(7:46:00 AM) groldan: just the old geoserver way "XXX is a YYY Raster"(7:46:34 AM) groldan: I can get something more useful from the table metadata but found they hardly set it(7:47:01 AM) groldan: still, fallbacking to the table name seems like the only solution as for what ResourceInfo concerns?(7:47:22 AM) jgarnett: agreed(7:47:36 AM) jgarnett: I should check if ResourceInfo is allowed to have a null title(7:47:46 AM) jgarnett: we are allowed to point out to users when their title is bad :-)(7:47:46 AM) groldan: I realize you're thinking in udig where there's not an admin setting nice titles for you like in geoserver(7:48:13 AM) groldan: we are(7:48:21 AM) jgarnett: well if you give me the API(7:48:33 AM) jgarnett: we can let users update the metadata from udig (7:49:03 AM) jgarnett: aside: our idea of introducing "info" to geotools has kind of failed(7:49:17 AM) jgarnett: we did not push it through the other datastore implemntations and thus it has not been picked up(7:49:50 AM) jgarnett: emily_g how goes the build? still stuck on beam?(7:50:05 AM) emily_g: I deleted it from the class path and everything works fine for me(7:50:26 AM) emily_g: should I commit that change?(7:51:07 AM) groldan: ok, deal: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOT-2337(7:51:20 AM) jgarnett: yep(7:51:38 AM) jgarnett: I am doing a fresh build here to make sure beam does not get dragged in from refresh.xml(7:51:46 AM) groldan: I gotta go back trying to figure out the JAI Mosaic operation(7:51:54 AM) jgarnett: it could be that beam is new; and the dependency has not been deployed to the repo yet(7:51:57 AM) groldan: thanks for the chat, see you(7:52:00 AM) jgarnett: ciao(7:52:51 AM) CIA-8: UDig:egouge * r31109 udig/plugins/net.refractions.udig.libs/ (.classpath META-INF/MANIFEST.MF): fixes for updates to sde geotools jars & removal of beam from classpath(7:53:10 AM) emily_g: I have another more geotools related question for you - I would like to add a bit of documentation about this caching stuff I've done.(7:54:20 AM) emily_g: I think this is the original page - http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/SoC+2007+Caching+data(7:54:41 AM) emily_g: should I modify this page , add a new one, or ask the geotools list?(7:55:57 AM) jgarnett: question(7:56:01 AM) jgarnett: is this thing its own module?(7:56:23 AM) emily_g: ya it's an unsupported module(7:56:25 AM) jgarnett: make a page here (http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Module+Matrix) and link back to the SOC page(7:56:25 AM) emily_g: gt-caching(7:56:34 AM) jgarnett: we try and have just one developer notes page(7:56:49 AM) jgarnett: this SOC page was kind of project notes; most students used it to report on their timeline and what they were doing(7:57:26 AM) jgarnett: does that help?(7:57:39 AM) jgarnett: Hopefully your hard work will leave this thing in a state it can be used(7:57:46 AM) jgarnett: I never even asked for user documentation for this one(7:58:43 AM) emily_g: i hope so too but I"m not use; I read through aaime list of requirements of a cache and this cache isn't that sophisticated (7:59:10 AM) jgarnett: aaime has been talking about a cache(7:59:16 AM) jgarnett: for 4 years(7:59:20 AM) jgarnett: there are two good ways to do it(7:59:28 AM) jgarnett: and nobody really knows which is great(7:59:32 AM) jgarnett: until we build and profile(7:59:39 AM) emily_g: So I'll add a link from the modules matrix page to the soc page and update the soc page with the modifications I've made(7:59:41 AM) jgarnett: so I would not worry; it is faster then remote WFS access :-)(7:59:53 AM) emily_g: yup :)(7:59:55 AM) jgarnett: um (8:00:05 AM) jgarnett: I would rather see you update the model matrics page(8:00:10 AM) jgarnett: talk about the code(8:00:51 AM) jgarnett: the SoC 2007 is over right?(8:00:57 AM) jgarnett: what you are doing now is about the module(8:00:59 AM) emily_g: yup(8:01:07 AM) jgarnett: yup(8:01:13 AM) emily_g: okay I'll make a new page for the module(8:01:52 AM) jgarnett: I am running refresh.libs now(8:02:12 AM) emily_g: what do the different colored stars mean?(8:02:13 AM) jgarnett: if beam is not around then I you can commit your change. If not we have a mystery to solve first(8:02:35 AM) jgarnett: At the bottom of the module matrics page it tells you(8:02:46 AM) jgarnett: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOT/Gold+Star+Quality+Assurance+Check(8:03:01 AM) jgarnett: really primitive metric to report to users the state of maturity of the module(8:03:09 AM) emily_g: umm I already committed my change to remove beam ...(8:03:12 AM) jgarnett: idea stolen from the maven plugin system(8:03:22 AM) jgarnett: ha ha; okay (8:03:30 AM) emily_g: ya I got that; I was wondering what the difference was between red and yellow (8:04:44 AM) kartben [n=kartben@pur31-3-82-240-189-250.fbx.proxad.net] entered the room.(8:04:58 AM) jgarnett: yellow is good(8:05:00 AM) jgarnett: red is bad(8:05:07 AM) jgarnett: pass or fail(8:05:28 AM) jgarnett: I would of just listed the number of stars but that is me(8:05:34 AM) emily_g: ok I though no star meant fail - (8:05:42 AM) emily_g: thanks (8:06:19 AM) jgarnett: yeah I did as well(8:09:46 AM) jgarnett: okay thanks for the meeting

Thursday, February 5, 2009

Coming from a very small scientific community as it is the one of JGrass, I must honestly say that I am not very used to people helping to make things better. Usually the do it yourself rule applies best.

Which is why I am glad when I see community members answer to other's community members questions in mailinglist.

And which is why I am even very glad when I am able to "force" a community member to add a small page of documentation.

But my goodness!!! What happened to this blog is amazing, I am almost choked up!

Paul, thank you so much on behalf of the uDig community for the elegant work done to bring this blog to the cadillac of blogs...

(7:16:41 AM) jgarnett: well lets start; moovida i responded to your email asking what we could talk about(7:16:52 AM) jgarnett: but really I do not mind what we talk about; what is important today(7:17:14 AM) ***moovida notices that Jody thinks andrea borruso and me are the same person(7:17:20 AM) jgarnett: (I have a report of a mistake in the CQL parser on uDig 1.1.x; if we fix this in GeoTools 2.2.x are their any plans to release a uDig 1.1.2?)(7:17:28 AM) jgarnett: ...grr...(7:17:30 AM) moovida: :) I noticed because of the nice extention point for import/export(7:17:34 AM) jgarnett: are we up to three Andrea's now(7:17:48 AM) moovida: there can be only ONE!!!(7:17:51 AM) moovida: :)(7:17:54 AM) jgarnett: I got in trouble with duplicate names on the deegree list as well(7:17:56 AM) moovida: ok, or 10 or 100(7:18:12 AM) moovida: the Germans are on Markus, right?(7:18:33 AM) jgarnett: syep(7:18:34 AM) mauricio: hi(7:18:34 AM) moovida: Italians like Andrea(7:18:35 AM) jgarnett: yep(7:18:44 AM) jgarnett: okay lets make the most of what time we have(7:18:51 AM) jgarnett: agenda topics(7:18:53 AM) moovida: yep(7:19:11 AM) moovida: planning of next sprint(7:19:13 AM) moovida: :)(7:19:22 AM) ***moovida thinks udig needs common love(7:20:51 AM) jgarnett has changed the topic to: 0) common love 1) 1.2-M2 SDK 2) CQL bug in 1.1.x(7:20:52 AM) moovida: for me nothing in particular, wanted to ask a bit about foss4g 2009, since some of the important ones are here :)(7:21:06 AM) jgarnett has changed the topic to: 0) common love 1) 1.2-M2 SDK 2) CQL bug in 1.1.x 3) SoC 4) FOSS4G(7:21:16 AM) jgarnett: 0) common love(7:21:43 AM) moovida: what is the state of udig 1.2 now?(7:21:54 AM) moovida: mauricio: were you able to fix that editing bug?(7:22:05 AM) moovida: just asking(7:22:13 AM) moovida: I guess time is short usually(7:22:15 AM) mauricio: :((7:22:20 AM) mauricio: no(7:22:24 AM) moovida: which is why i would propose a new common efforth(7:22:31 AM) mauricio: I cannot work in it(7:22:36 AM) moovida: don't worry(7:22:39 AM) moovida: I understand(7:22:43 AM) jgarnett: what editing bug?(7:23:05 AM) moovida: but we need to boost udig 1.2,I have enough to keep 2 versios of JGrass uptodate :)(7:23:15 AM) moovida: one we had at the code sprint(7:23:22 AM) moovida: perhaps silli remembers?(7:23:31 AM) moovida: I don't know exactly any more(7:23:36 AM) moovida: mauricio?(7:23:40 AM) mauricio: yes editing features(7:23:53 AM) silli: it was the an editing bug(7:24:09 AM) mauricio: the old geometry (7:24:18 AM) silli: when editing a feature and commit the changes(7:24:27 AM) silli: then you can not edit an other layer again(7:24:50 AM) silli: and still there were some problems rendering the edited feature (7:25:04 AM) jgarnett: okay I must of missed that part of the discussion(7:25:09 AM) jgarnett: emily_g ping? (7:25:21 AM) emily_g: yo(7:25:28 AM) jgarnett: (Emily did some testing of the udig 1.2-M2 release against the walkthroughs and came up with an email)(7:25:38 AM) jgarnett: we were talking about udig 1.2(7:25:38 AM) emily_g: right - I only tested walkthough1(7:25:45 AM) emily_g: none of the editing stuff - sorry (7:26:08 AM) jgarnett: np; you did have some problems (like DnD from firefox)(7:26:39 AM) emily_g: yes that is a bit of an intermittent problem; sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't(7:29:18 AM) silli: moovida: could you please send us the spreadsheet link of the code sprint? all the unresolved bugs where written there(7:29:19 AM) jgarnett: hrm(7:29:34 AM) jgarnett: moovida I am not sure what else you would like out of this agenda topic at this time(7:30:04 AM) jgarnett: I have some plans for udig 1.2 on the API side; I am slowly rolling out an ID class; and I owe you an extension point for stype handling.(7:30:07 AM) moovida: :) a date Jody, a date, and people willing and happy to hack again a couple of days(7:30:26 AM) jgarnett: ah(7:30:33 AM) ***moovida the spreadsheet link: http://www.editgrid.com/user/aborruso/uDig_code_Sprint_2009(7:30:48 AM) moovida: that is all, I would like to know(7:30:51 AM) jgarnett: I do not have any plans right now; so I will be happy with whatever date you propose on the mailing list.(7:31:19 AM) moovida: what about the others? opinions?(7:31:35 AM) moovida: I would like to know if there is interest right now(7:31:51 AM) moovida: so I can also plan for myself(7:32:17 AM) jgarnett: There is interesting; I am just thinking of timing.(7:32:43 AM) jgarnett: LISAsoft's own project using uDig (which jhudson was working on) is comming to an end.(7:32:51 AM) moovida: Jody, we are interested, but to do some decent bugfixing(7:32:55 AM) jgarnett: moovida it would be good to roll out the uDig 1.2-M2 SDK(7:33:00 AM) moovida: we need some more then us two(7:33:06 AM) moovida: some more coders and some testers(7:33:16 AM) moovida: else it won't be worth it(7:33:21 AM) moovida: in my opinion(7:33:31 AM) jgarnett: you are correct(7:33:33 AM) moovida: jgarnett: yes, you are absolutwely right(7:33:42 AM) jgarnett: now the last code sprint did a lot of good(7:33:57 AM) jgarnett: but if we have a code sprint too often they will not be a special event of fun and happiness(7:34:02 AM) emily_g: I may be able to commit some time; but at the moment I'm rather focused on my wfs caching so now is not the best time(7:34:24 AM) moovida: great emily_g (7:34:26 AM) emily_g: I'm inclined to agree with jody that we should wait a bit (7:34:26 AM) jgarnett: so I would like to roll out udig 1.2-M2 SDK and see the response; and we can ask people about another code sprint over the course of the week.(7:34:32 AM) moovida: and I agree jgarnett (7:34:38 AM) jgarnett: thinking(7:34:41 AM) jgarnett: ha ha(7:34:42 AM) jgarnett: evil idea(7:34:43 AM) emily_g: I think people are still getting up to speed after the last code sprint that was done (7:34:46 AM) moovida: it doesn't have to be now(7:35:07 AM) moovida: what are you thinking about(7:35:11 AM) jgarnett: perhaps if we have a code sprint on new features; or pet projects it would be fun. emily_g could work on feature caching; I could work on ID(7:35:13 AM) jgarnett: etc...(7:35:36 AM) moovida: that would be great fun... but...(7:35:52 AM) moovida: don't you think that would add unstability to the base?(7:35:55 AM) jgarnett: last time I said no to new features; I bet we could get a turn out if we offered to help people create new features.(7:36:01 AM) jgarnett: yeah you are right :-P(7:36:06 AM) jgarnett: we can keep that idea for later.(7:36:15 AM) emily_g: i agree; that fixing the base functionality should be more important(7:36:21 AM) moovida: hmmm, but the idea turns me on :)(7:36:27 AM) jgarnett: think about it(7:36:33 AM) jgarnett: and we can ask on the email list this week(7:36:33 AM) moovida: we should mix a bit(7:36:36 AM) moovida: probably(7:36:45 AM) moovida: yes, lets see the response(7:36:53 AM) jgarnett: 2) CQL bug in 1.1.x(7:37:04 AM) mauricio: yes(7:37:05 AM) jgarnett: I have a report of a bug in the CQL parser; which I ported to GeoTools 2.2.x(7:37:21 AM) jgarnett: if I go and fix it; is there any plans to release a uDig 1.1.2?(7:37:36 AM) jgarnett: Jesse put up a "teaser" of 1.1.2 but it never went anywhere(7:38:31 AM) mauricio: I could have a look in 2.2x branch(7:39:24 AM) mauricio: or you are working in it?(7:40:09 AM) mauricio: I found problems with all spatial relations(7:40:27 AM) mauricio: intersect, dwithin, etc(7:41:00 AM) jgarnett: I do not even have 2.2.x checked out(7:41:15 AM) jgarnett: indeed I ported CQL in a matter of days; and have not really got a code review from anyone.(7:41:30 AM) jgarnett: I just found it so much fun on trunk; and the reshape operation is fun(7:42:17 AM) mauricio: yes trunk is ok(7:42:18 AM) ***moovida thinks reshape is very imprtant fun(7:42:24 AM) jgarnett: okay well if there is a will to look at this problem; I will match the community by trying to make a 1.1.2 release - however I am really not in a good position to do so. So if we can hunt down jeichar it would be a better move all around.(7:42:49 AM) jgarnett: (I am not confident my eclipse set up will let me make a good 1.1.2 release; and we would like to have an installer and stuff)(7:43:25 AM) jgarnett: mauricio we can take this one to email?(7:43:33 AM) mauricio: ok(7:45:08 AM) jgarnett: 3) SoC(7:45:22 AM) jgarnett: Who is on the SoC email list for osgeo?(7:45:32 AM) moovida: i am(7:45:39 AM) jgarnett: I am; and I saw Jesse(7:45:55 AM) jgarnett: it looks like they are trying to get organized faster this year; due to the SoC program having less scope.(7:46:17 AM) moovida: yes, same feeling(7:46:48 AM) jgarnett: So far all I can think to do to prepair is work on the Ideas page; and try and be more specific - and clear out things that were done last time around.(7:47:11 AM) jgarnett: I also think we should change our expectations for participation on email lists etc...(7:47:17 AM) moovida: you said that students contacted you?(7:47:30 AM) moovida: yes, last year was soooo disappointing(7:47:38 AM) jgarnett: so far the successful students have been very outgoing and chatted on the email list themselves; the others I have had to hunt down their moderator and ask what is going on.(7:48:21 AM) jgarnett: so I would be happy stating that we will only consider students that have introduced themselves to udig-devel before :-)(7:48:30 AM) jgarnett: it is a low bar to pass; but I think it would get the point across(7:48:35 AM) moovida: that is a great idea(7:48:39 AM) moovida: absolutely(7:49:57 AM) jgarnett: so I was only reading the SoC list for January; yesterday :-)(7:50:08 AM) jgarnett: who is actually paying attention; do we have any deadlines or schedules to meet?(7:50:34 AM) mauricio: I am here(7:50:39 AM) moovida: :) no idea, I didn't see anything pass... but I am rather blind these s=days(7:50:48 AM) moovida: we could ask Wolf(7:50:52 AM) moovida: he is really helpful(7:52:30 AM) moovida: anyone already some people?(7:52:38 AM) moovida: jgarnett: did you talk about students?(7:53:31 AM) jgarnett: one of the students from last year asked me if it was still on; that is what had me check the osgeo list(7:54:00 AM) jgarnett: (mauricio I was trying to ask who was paying attention to the SOC list)(7:54:05 AM) moovida: jgarnett: btw, I am a Phd right now and would be allowed to partecipate as student(7:54:17 AM) moovida: somebody here to mentor me? :)(7:54:19 AM) jgarnett: really; that is cool. Can you sponsor yourself?(7:54:22 AM) mauricio: I am not in the soc(7:54:37 AM) mauricio: but i am thinking tha it is interesting(7:54:45 AM) moovida: jgarnett: what do you mean?(7:55:00 AM) jgarnett: I was joking(7:55:03 AM) moovida: if I would be willing to partecipate?(7:55:04 AM) moovida: :)(7:55:07 AM) mauricio: I could work with spanish students(7:55:19 AM) moovida: ok, even if I talked to Wolf about this(7:55:32 AM) moovida: I am very tempted(7:55:35 AM) jgarnett: so in general we are keen here; we need to talk to wolf and work on the ideas page(7:55:45 AM) moovida: after seeing Martin Landa from GRASS do the same and (7:55:52 AM) moovida: achieve big things for GRASS(7:56:05 AM) moovida: ok(7:56:10 AM) pramsey left the room (quit: ).(7:56:12 AM) moovida: let's go on(7:56:44 AM) moovida: 4) FOSS4G(7:56:52 AM) moovida: jgarnett: what is your feeling here?(7:57:02 AM) moovida: you should be quite in it, right?(7:57:09 AM) jgarnett: I am helping organize(7:57:23 AM) jgarnett: right now my focus is on getting a machine for the "intergration showcase"(7:57:30 AM) jgarnett: it has been tossed out of the foss4g team(7:57:35 AM) jgarnett: and give to the OGC as a formal project(7:57:45 AM) jgarnett: and called the "Climate Change Intergration Plugfest"(7:58:05 AM) jgarnett: still the short term goal for me is a server to install postGIS/ geoserver/ mapserver on(7:58:13 AM) jgarnett: with a bunch of climate change data(7:58:28 AM) jgarnett: we will add servers as sponsors show up; and hopefully have a nice big shoot out(7:58:42 AM) jgarnett: with large datasets and see who is standing and who fell at the end of the day(7:58:55 AM) jgarnett: mark issues the call for workshops ... earlier this week(7:59:04 AM) jgarnett: There is a *very* limited number of 3 hour slots(7:59:04 AM) moovida: is there a scientific committee or is that all just for showing?(7:59:12 AM) jgarnett: and no 90 mins slots this time out(7:59:18 AM) moovida: i.e. is there some analisis and statistic on those data?(7:59:34 AM) jgarnett: JGrass could showcase data anlaysis against that data set(7:59:44 AM) jgarnett: indeed this is the point; for workshop people to use the data and serves(7:59:54 AM) jgarnett: (since data access to europe or north america will be crap)(7:59:56 AM) moovida: ahhh, now I understand, sounds really cool(8:00:09 AM) jgarnett: so if we want to do a workshop; we need to put in a strong bid(8:00:14 AM) jgarnett: and even then it will be tough.(8:00:19 AM) moovida: silli: sounds to be something for you :)(8:00:33 AM) jgarnett: they will also have small 90 min BYO laptop things during the conference (8:00:35 AM) silli: are you thinking just on manage these data (db and show the raw data or some statistical interpretation) or also have some models? (8:00:44 AM) jgarnett: but having a class bring their own laptop sounds crazy hard to me(8:01:22 AM) jeichar left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).(8:01:24 AM) jgarnett: um we will have vector and raster data; it is scientific groups in australia giving us the data - I have not sceen it yet so I do not know much.(8:01:26 AM) jgarnett: thinking(8:01:41 AM) jgarnett: maybe we could do a combined udig / jgrass workshop?(8:02:00 AM) moovida: hui hui, now that would be fun(8:02:03 AM) jgarnett: 90 min intro to open source software stack using uDig as the driver (like what we did in 2007)(8:02:10 AM) jgarnett: and roll over to installing jgrass plugins(8:02:16 AM) jgarnett: and attacking the climate change data?(8:02:31 AM) jgarnett: in anycase this is something for the email list(8:02:36 AM) moovida: yes, that sounds like big power(8:02:37 AM) moovida: :D(8:02:45 AM) moovida: ok, agreed, can you keep us up to date?(8:02:56 AM) jgarnett: but at least this year; please have no hard feelings if we do not get a workshop - there are only like 16 slots or 12 slots or something(8:02:56 AM) silli: :D(8:03:04 AM) jgarnett: the presentations are like normal(8:03:23 AM) jgarnett: the BYO laptop thing can be hands on; or maybe just show and tell; I do not really understand.(8:03:34 AM) jgarnett: And there will be a code sprint :-)(8:03:51 AM) moovida: not after the last night of party please(8:04:00 AM) jgarnett: looks like google is going to offer us digs; and they are 2 blocks away from lisasoft offices if you guys want to go longer.(8:04:26 AM) jgarnett: and I will try and do pancakes again :-)(8:04:35 AM) moovida: mauricio: are you going to attend?(8:04:42 AM) mauricio: yes(8:04:43 AM) moovida: you have to taste Jody's pancakes :)(8:04:47 AM) jgarnett: (if you liked the big truck rental in Canada; here they have muscle cars)(8:04:54 AM) mauricio: ;)(8:05:04 AM) moovida: silli: did you hear that!! :D(8:05:44 AM) silli: yes!!!!(8:05:55 AM) jgarnett: yep it is like the 50s in north america; they still make v8 monsters; the scary ones are not a car but a car/trunk called a ute(8:05:58 AM) silli: moovida: we should do everything to partecipate...(8:06:06 AM) jgarnett: where they have a truck bed for the back; which is lighter so they can go faster(8:06:24 AM) moovida: :D (8:06:30 AM) silli: :D(8:06:51 AM) silli: absolutely fantastic!!!(8:06:54 AM) jgarnett: well as time goes on I would love help organizing the code sprint; reminding people to be organized; etc... if the conference starts making profit the code sprint may get food service as well(8:07:05 AM) jgarnett: (not sure how much of this I am supposed to be saying)(8:07:20 AM) jgarnett: and this climate change thing is going to be fun(8:07:22 AM) moovida: remove it from the logs(8:07:28 AM) jgarnett: but it will be really hard to get the open source communities to notice(8:07:29 AM) moovida: we won't tell anyone :)(8:07:40 AM) jgarnett: (or even understand that their fav datasets are too far away to be useful)(8:08:06 AM) jgarnett: so as Mark Leslie and I start standing up servers; maybe we can make some blog posts or flash videos(8:08:11 AM) jgarnett: showing how to abuse the data(8:08:21 AM) jgarnett: I worry a bit with this as an OGC thing(8:08:22 AM) moovida: yes, do that, I really hope we will be able to produce something usefull(8:08:29 AM) jgarnett: the open source community will not feel as invoved(8:08:35 AM) jgarnett: (sorry involved)(8:09:03 AM) jgarnett: finally I have a funny story(8:09:22 AM) moovida: ?(8:09:38 AM) jgarnett: One of the cool helpful geotools developers(8:09:47 AM) jgarnett: (Michael Bedward)(8:09:49 AM) jgarnett: and I (8:09:54 AM) jgarnett: finally noticed we were in the same city.(8:10:02 AM) moovida: lol(8:10:06 AM) silli: lol(8:10:08 AM) moovida: he told me last week(8:10:12 AM) jgarnett: so I am not complete stranded over here; it took us three months to notice(8:10:14 AM) moovida: Ididn't figure out(8:10:53 AM) jgarnett: In anycase we are coming up on an hour here; I am glad we are all having fun; and foss4g is going to rock out :-)(8:11:09 AM) moovida: great (8:11:14 AM) moovida: thanks for the chat guys(8:11:40 AM) jgarnett: I will try and upload a 1.2-M2 sdk; but I will need testing (to see of the source code for geotools got in etc...)(8:11:45 AM) emily_g: jody - before you run away I have a question about the image support on trunk & the problems graham was having yesterday(8:11:49 AM) jgarnett: it is supposed to be building now; I was hoping to anounce it this meeting.(8:11:53 AM) jgarnett: ah(8:11:56 AM) jgarnett: sure(8:12:13 AM) jgarnett: gdavis did not have his log on; so he did not notice the strack tace(8:12:17 AM) emily_g: basically I did a clean/refresh/clean/build/restart and I still can't view mr.side files(8:12:19 AM) moovida: gdavis_: is it possible to try out your sperimental plugins?(8:12:22 AM) jgarnett: I forgot a null check and was killing it(8:12:36 AM) emily_g: it's working for graham so its just my comptuer(8:12:44 AM) emily_g: I was wondering whether you have any ideas for debugging?(8:12:44 AM) jgarnett: gdavis also was using the wrong imageioext jars(8:12:47 AM) jgarnett: he had 1.0.0(8:12:49 AM) jgarnett: not 1.0.1(8:13:22 AM) jgarnett: can you check what you have emily? before we start ... you may need to smack refresh.xml pretty hard (ie clean out the libs directory and then run)(8:13:23 AM) emily_g: min all say 1.0.1(8:13:39 AM) jgarnett: okay that is the first thing; you also have a JRE with all the imageio-ext stuff?(8:13:57 AM) jgarnett: (note we still do not have a good JRE for the windows platform; we need to make a new one that can do ecw as well)(8:14:07 AM) emily_g: yes - I'm using the same one as graham(8:14:30 AM) jgarnett: okay; what is next ... what is your error? We have two debugging techniques(8:14:38 AM) jgarnett: - consol log and look for strack trace(8:14:51 AM) jgarnett: - place a breakpoint in the service extension and watch it process the URL(8:15:18 AM) emily_g: okay ; I'll try those(8:15:21 AM) emily_g: i'm not getting any error(8:15:27 AM) emily_g: when I drag and drop a file it doesn't nothing(8:15:40 AM) jgarnett: all that means is that it did not find any service extension that "recognized it"(8:15:43 AM) emily_g: and when I open the file using the file menu it just hangs on the loading resource dialog box(8:15:45 AM) jgarnett: so we need to put that break point in (8:16:02 AM) jgarnett: so to debug this we will use debugging technique number 2(8:16:15 AM) silli left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).(8:16:38 AM) jgarnett: suppose I should post the logs(8:16:41 AM) emily_g: okay jody I'll try it out when I get the chance; at the moment I'm a bit sidetracked(8:16:45 AM) emily_g: thanks for the ideas(8:16:54 AM) jgarnett: okay; I will be on IRC on and off(8:17:00 AM) jgarnett: so ping me when you get to the debugging part(8:17:00 AM) emily_g: if I find anything major I'll post it to the list; most likely I'm just doing something stupid(8:17:18 AM) jgarnett: (not gdavis also had problems with the code tripping up over spaces in the path)(8:17:26 AM) jgarnett: heh - not you(8:17:31 AM) jgarnett: blame the computer :-)(8:17:41 AM) jgarnett: for extra fun "svn blame" will tell you who committed the error(8:21:01 AM) emily_g: :)

(8:21:36 AM) jgarnett: aside: did you guys see the blog site now(8:21:40 AM) jgarnett: pramsey made it look pretty(8:22:21 AM) moovida: WOW!!!(8:22:48 AM) moovida: that is better than the official JGrass homepage(8:22:50 AM) moovida: :D(8:22:58 AM) moovida: good Paul(8:25:44 AM) jgarnett: well next time you see him online; be sure to thank him