Remember when 'hundreds' (looked like under 50 to anyone but the journalists in attendance) of protestors showed up at our Ravenhill, and they listened to them rather than the thousands who actually contribute to making Ulster what it is today.

Must be honest I don't really know what 'Never move on' fully entails? I get a hatred for BOI and never using them, a hatred of parts of the IRFU, but what exactly are you trying to achieve that will make your life better?

As vehicles go, it’s more Nissan Leaf than Jeep Trackhawk but acknowledging the wrongs and not simply shrugging one’s shoulders and allowing these greedy barstewards to wrongly sit in moral judgment, while they pretend to be whiter than white, is the right thing to do. We don’t expect some soft southern fecker to understand.

Tender wrote:As vehicles go, it’s more Nissan Leaf than Jeep Trackhawk but acknowledging the wrongs and not simply shrugging one’s shoulders and allowing these greedy barstewards to wrongly sit in moral judgment, while they pretend to be whiter than white, is the right thing to do. We don’t expect some soft southern fecker to understand.

John, if you could detail what specifically has led you to conclude that the position of the two gentlemen, was or is, untenable. That would be great.

Rape is a crime for which many legal systems around the world simply aren't fit for the purpose. Only a couple of weeks ago we had some judge in England stating that it is a fundamental right for a man to have sex with his wife, even if (as in this case) she can be proven to have the mental age of a child. There is so much vitriol poured on victims, their lives and actions are taken apart in public during the proceedings and the victim is further humiliated in many cases. Such cases are toxic for all of those involved, most especially the organisations represented by the plaintiffs and defendants.

So the 2 players found themselves in court on very serious charges. At this point they have already brought their employer into serious disrepute, as the subsequent media frenzy showed. Yes, we know that the media anno 2018/2019 is not exactly a paragon of virtue, more likely a den of ill-repute and sensationalism, but it is in this climate that the IRFU and Ulster Rugby find themselves trying to promote a brand of rugby that is inclusive and family-friendly.

During the case, the plaintiff and defendants' characters and actions were brought into the public eye in fine detail, as were the digital communications between the players and friend after the events. Congratulating eachother on more conquests, top shaggers and all that triumphalism concerning what they may or may not have done with this woman. Not exactly the kind of image you want as employer splashed over the papers, is it? We're still not talking about a verdict here, we're talking about ongoing proceedings and public image.

I say at this point we've already crossed the Rubicon, regardless of the eventual verdict. The IRFU and UR have a decision to make concerning their employees. And yes, it sucks to high heaven but both organisations have major sponsors who also have their own public image to uphold and have an amount of leverage within the IRFU and UR when it comes to policy decisions.

That's why I said, and I repeat, that I understand the actions of the IRFU and UR. I'm not agreeing, I'm understanding why.

That is not to say I think Irish banks are paragons of virtue or have a been a force for good - FFS they've ruined the Irish economy for 2 generations to come. I'm not saying that I believe players found innocent in a court of law have no right to further employment in their profession and neither am I saying that we should get involved in ridiculous whatiffery or start comparing one player's off-field actions to another's.

I will say this though, I feel exceedingly sorry for the wee lass concerned and what happened to her. They players, sadly missed as players of their quality are, have new lives in the south of France, playing the game they love and are being remunerated very well.