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pianoloverus
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19946
Loc: New York City

You could just stop after the chords right before the coda for an "up in the air" interpretation? Or maybe just resolve the last chord before the coda and say this is the newly discovered version?

Unless this is a pre-announced program do you really have to play this if you feel uncomfortable about preparing it in time? Unless you've opted out of/changed a piece many times before(which I doubt), it might be OK to make a change.

Yes I've already submitted the programme. I could change it I suppose, but I would still have to learn 12 minutes of something else. Also I need the Ballade for other things so it has to be done at some point. I'd rather not change the programme for a professional engagement though. It doesn't look very, well, professional lol. But then again neither does leaving it too late to learn the pieces :P.

It's taken me just under a week to learn the coda. I'll keep you all updated haha

Mark_C
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20004
Loc: New York

Originally Posted By: debrucey

I have to play it in a recital on 27th of November....

Whaddaya mean, "have to"?

Originally Posted By: debrucey

Yes I've already submitted the programme. I could change it I suppose, but I would still have to learn 12 minutes of something else....

Oh, I see.

Change the friggin' program.

Quote:

I'd rather not change the programme for a professional engagement though. It doesn't look very, well, professional lol...

They will hardly care.

If you feel you really can learn the piece real well by then -- or, I think we really have to say, within just 1 month, because most people would need to do that, rather than just barely having it learned by the time of the performance -- then go ahead. If you have real doubt, change the friggin' program.

And if you do go ahead and learn it because you're pretty sure you can have it comfortably under your belt by then, I think this is an instance where you'll be best off doing something that I'd hardly ever suggest when it comes to things like this: hedge your bets, and make sure you have something else that will certainly be ready 'just in case' you wind up not being comfortable enough with the Ballade.

Quote:

Anyone else miscalculated their deadlines like this before? How did it turn out?

Sure.And I changed the program.

And BTW....

Quote:

....It's taken me just under a week to learn the coda.

What exactly do you mean by "learn"?

I'm sure you're better than I am, but.....it took me about a day and a half to "learn" it, and another few years before I dared play it in public!

Having "learned" a passage or a piece can mean so many different things....

pianoloverus
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19946
Loc: New York City

Originally Posted By: debrucey

Yes I've already submitted the programme. I could change it I suppose, but I would still have to learn 12 minutes of something else. Also I need the Ballade for other things so it has to be done at some point. I'd rather not change the programme for a professional engagement though. It doesn't look very, well, professional lol. But then again neither does leaving it too late to learn the pieces :P.

I agree that when a professional makes a commitment to perform it's much better to keep the commitment if at all possible. I assumed this was probably the reason you felt committed to perform this piece that has you somewhat under the gun at this point.

Perhaps you can find ways to lighten your work load in other ways in the next two months so you will have enough time to learn the Ballade to an appropriate level. I'm sure your teacher has at some point in his past not scheduled enough time to learn a piece so he can probably give you some advice here.

I once taught math to a brilliant high school student who started violin rather late but became extremely good very quickly. He eventually was good enough to play in various orchestras in Europe. The music director at Trinity High School hired this boy for some musical production a year after the boy had graduated from Trinity. But at the last minute the boy cancelled his performance. The musical director told me he would never hire the boy again.

I know, but will not go into details, of a similar situation involving much higher level musicians at the Mannes IKIF.

So I think debrucey is wise to try and make the best of a difficult situation and find a way to learn the Ballade in time.

Is that such an interesting question? Why does anyone ever misjudge deadlines? A combination of procrastination, other things getting in the way and taking too much on in the first place.

I presume that you thought it an interesting situation since you started a thread about it. My question was prompted by the fact that it appears - although this may not be the case - that you have not studied this work before, a work considered by some to be among Chopin's most challenging. Most "mortals" I know, including some pretty advanced pianists, would never consider tackling and making a commitment to perform such a work without allowing the time to both learn it and live with it until one feels s/he "owns" it.

Of course I wish you success with it, but the situation did beg the question, I thought.

Mark_C
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20004
Loc: New York

Originally Posted By: BruceD

....a work considered by some to be among Chopin's most challenging....

Actually you understated it!

I think it's very safe to say that it's considered by all to be among Chopin's most challenging (that is, all who know enough about Chopin's works to talk about it), and by very many to be his very most challenging.

Which is why it's hard to know what one means and how significant it is when he says he has "learned" the coda, or whatever part of the piece.

Anyone else miscalculated their deadlines like this before? How did it turn out?

I've had it turn out lots of ways. From triumphant to disastrous and everything in between.

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

I think it's very safe to say that it's considered by all to be among Chopin's most challenging (that is, all who know enough about Chopin's works to talk about it), and by very many to be his very most challenging.

Mark_C
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 20004
Loc: New York

Originally Posted By: mazurkajoe

Harder than the third sonata?

Well, the main thing was whether the Ballade is clearly among the most challenging.

But as long as you're asking.... I performed both for the first time at the same recital, and FWIW I had been working on the sonata for a year....and the ballade for 7 years. The difficulties are different, and different people would find one or the other to be harder. It's hard even to say what's the hardest thing about the sonata. Most people think it's the last movement, many say it's the 1st....and to me the scherzo is the hardest movement.

I'd say it would be splitting hairs to say if the sonata or the ballade is harder. They're both clearly "among Chopin's most challenging works."

BTW I wouldn't recommend performing the sonata either after just 2 months.

I didn't expect to have to clarify this point, but by 'learned' the coda all I mean is a can sit down and play the coda with a reasonable amount of fluency (if a little undertempo) from memory.

The reason this is an important thing for me is because getting a piece to that stage is the thing I stress about the most. Once the notes are 'learned' all of the work that then must happen to make it a polished performance, while it will certainly take a long time, doesn't frighten me.

'Considered by all' ?A lot of pianists I know have told me that they don't consider it to be as difficult as people think, so clearly opinion is divided on that one.

In an ideal world we would all 'own' every piece we learn before we play it to anyone, but I personally have very rarely experienced such a situation.

Yes. Some years ago, after a violinist and horn player had a nasty falling out with a pianist, they asked me to play the piano part in the Brahms Horn Trio with two months to go before a scheduled performance.

I said, 'yes, of course!'

If I knew the piece from recordings, that didn't quite prepare me for how difficult that piano part actually is. (If not on the level of the Chopin.) The first rehearsal did not go well and I spent the last month in a dead heat working overtime.

In the event all went okay, though don't let anyone tell you that the Horn Trio is in any way an easy gig.