Even if it hadn’t been the first book to arrive at the library, Before Watchmen: Minutemen/Silk Spectre would have been the place to start on this revisit. (Well, part-revisit, as I said before.) The two…

0:00-3:38: Greetings! And welcome to episode 200, where our long-term special guest star, Technical Difficulties, almost dropped by for an opening visit. Those of you who’ve heard our early episodes recently might enjoy listening to Graeme and Jef try to reminisce about their early days when they can barely remember them.

3:38-33:29: And then it’s on to a discussion about Captain America: Civil War the movie that somehow both Graeme and Jeff saw during its first week of release. Jeff liked it, Graeme didn’t, and so we’re off to the races! FULL SPOILERS AHOY, so please do be careful if you haven’t seen it yet. (Because otherwise you might end up like Graeme, as this conversation will make clear.) Discussed: Batman vs. Stupidman; reasons why you might not thoroughly spoil a movie for yourself before you see it; Robert Downey Jr.’s performance in CA: Civil War; Tom Holland as Peter Parker/Spider-Man; Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa/Black Panther; the overstuffed nature of Marvel films; Emily VanCamp as Sharon Carter; J.Law vs. J.Gar vs. J.Lo vs. J.League; Joss Whedon, J.J. Abrams, and how the works at the front of the nerd zeitgeist age over time; good movies vs. good Marvel movies; the action sequences in CA: Civil War; John Wick and the legacy of Hong Kong movies; different special effect houses; Graeme shit-talking CA: Civil War in emails or not; and then…SPECIAL GUEST APPEARANCE BY ERNIE AND GUS-GUS! YAYYYYYY! (It’s like they knew it was our 200th episode!) (And yet Graeme swears to me he didn’t tell them.)

33:29-39:41: “Yes, yes,” you’re saying. “I suppose I have enjoyed all two hundred or so episodes of Wait, What? But I do wish they had more cheesy tie-in discussions to big movie events that one of them doesn’t even like…” Well, face front, true believer, because we’ve organized the Wait, What? Civil War 200th Episode Event where each of us picked a team of five comic book characters to fight for us! Who will win? #TeamGraeme, who assembled two separate teams, or #TeamJeff, which assembled a team with *six* comic book characters? (Maybe a more important question is, why can’t these guys follow their own rules?) Discussed: Wildfire from the Legion of Superheroes; erotic Sears bedsheets; Dave Cockrum and the secret word of the podcast, which when uttered leads to….

39:41-53:32: As you probably know, Darwyn Cooke passed away the day we recorded this podcast, not long after it was announced he’d been fighting cancer. Although Jeff thought we’d talk about Cooke and his legacy at the end of the episode, and Graeme was surprised we didn’t discuss it at the beginning, here we are talking about it now.

53:32-55:03: And so with that we’re back to our discussion of the Wait, What? Civil War Teams, this time picking up with #TeamJeff and the second team for #TeamGraeme. And then it’s time for: CALLS FROM LISTENERS. In order to make it easier on my tippy-tappy little fingers, and also in order to provide you with a modicum of suspense, I will not transcribe the whole call but rather than provide you with a meaningful excerpt as provided by Google Voice’s auto-transcription feature, which as you can imagine is absolutely 100% accurate, for example:

55:03-1:02:57: Here’s Zack: “Gradulations on 202 question any crap man. You know so if there’s anything more we can do to make them to is interesting and failing that and if there’s anything they can do to make expensive and less paranoid. Thanks gradulations.” Discussed: X-Men fans, what makes the Inhumans interesting, and more.

1:02:57-1:05:13: Here’s Aaron (lickthestar) from Detroit: “I remember the first time I came across your podcast kind of by chance after you getting back into comments after a long hiatus and I listen to you guys for an hour and a half rip apart on my favorite marvel comics and tell me what a horrible writer, pinnacle been disses […]” Discussed: we are terrible human beings, Ernie and Gus-Gus have opinions; and more.

1:05:13-1:30:19: Here’s Paul McCall (parts 1 and 2): “Hello, my name is Paul mcAll and I’m a comic book attic and superhero Chunky […] I have not yet hurt. I know you both drunk or some kind of clear view website, but I want details.” Discussed: DC’s 80 page and 100 page giants; when one becomes a Whatnaut; how the two of us met; writing the Onomatopoeia newsletter for Comix Experience; how we ended up doing the podcast; influences on the podcast (for Jeff, anyway);

1:30:19-1:33:11: Here’s Steve from Los Angeles: “you guys are just f****** fantastic, and I will also say that the first time I listen to the show. I absolutely hated it, and I think I first turned in on some episode where there was a lengthy discussion of the waffle window and various. You know walkal related topics, and I was like what the f*** is this […]” Discussed: our secret ingredient.

1:33:11-1:34:32: Welcome, Peter from Atlanta: “‘I’ve been a listener for about a year now, and I really enjoyed how much you guys just kind of break-ins it just feels like me and my friend alright conversations. I’ve had with friends and bars where it goes you start one place, and you end up of millions of miles away from where you are and so it’s on a few my hair thing about the show.[…]” Discussed: THE TANGENTS

1:34:32-1:41:37: And here’s Special Guest-Star Voodoo Ben!: “I‘ve loved every minute of it to get to a classic wait what conundrum? I was wondering if you guys would consider. What if Jack Kirby’s post Marvel work on that community before as well this address.” Discussed: What waffles Jack Kirby’s DC work would be if Jack Kirby’s DC work (and some of his Pacific Comics work) were waffles.

1:41:37-1:43:09: Leef Smith of Mission Comics and Art: “I went back in I’ve actually listening to some of the first episodes this week, and it’s amazing how consistent you guys are alright.” (Leef has the diction that Google Voice apparently loves because this auto-transcribed excerpt is very, very close to what he actually said. IMPRESSIVE!) Discussed (all too briefly): Mission Comics and Art is a fantastic comic store in San Francisco and you should go for a visit if you haven’t already.

1:43:09-1:44:42: Levi Tompkins is here to say, among other things: “I love you guys is rambling but they just thought well. I think they’re informative. I think they’re making me the email love comics, but also sometimes heat them[…]” Discussed: victory via SCOIP; Jeff being unfair to Graeme, and the snarkiest intro Jeff has ever made.

1:44:42-1:47:57: Matt Terl! (Who really is one of our favorite people, and we had to badger him into calling): “I figured I would do go up one of the old emails. I had sent you guys with a question that I want to point out you never ever answered posted to you know see if maybe you would take the time to answer it the question is this is from june 2012.” Discussed: no, really, Matt, we love you; the JMS law; and more.

1:49:51-1:51:01: And here’s Martin Gray [inaccurate transcript unavailable] who took time out for the excellent work he does over at Too Busy For A Girl to leave us a message. Thank you Martin!

1:51:01-1:59:41: And, similarly, here’s another delightful-but-impossible-to-distort-via-Google-Voice’s-autotranscription call, this time from Daniel McKay asking: if we could have a fantasy dinner party with anyone from comics, who would you invite and why? Discussed: Ryan North, Gil Kane, Alan Moore, Olive Byrne, and Jill Lepore’s The Secret History of Wonder Woman, why there’s a transcription of an orgy, Clark Kent, Alec McGarrity, Kid Eternity, Wallace Wells, Diabolik, the best version of Clue, and more.

1:59:41-2:08:15: We are also lucky enough to get a message from Al Kennedy and Paul O’Brien of the brilliant House to Astonish! And they ask: “how do you see the comics landscape and your work in comics podcasting having changed since you started?” Discussed: Uh, exactly that, although Graeme comes up with much more well thought out points about the topic than Jeff. (Sooooo much more thought out!) But also: Bill Mantlo! Patreon! and more!

2:08:15-2:12:23: And finally from Jay Edidin of Jay and Miles X-plain The X-Men: “As you look back over the first two hundred episodes, what do you want to revisit, and what are you looking forward to leaving in the dust?” Discussed: Nashville, Jane The Virgin, and more.

2:12:23-2:16:27: “Oh, but what about those listener questions?” you ask (which is itself a listener question, if you think about it). Jeff was such a space cadet he didn’t think we got any but Graeme, fortunately, knows better. However, there’s no way we’re going to be able to answer them this go-round so, episode 301, which will be the episode after next week’s Baxter Building episode, will tackle all those questions…and any more you want to send to *protected email*!

2:16:27-end: Closing Comments! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich. If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)!

Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 125 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.

0:00-3:41: Greetings! Catch up with us as we catch up with each other. But honestly it’s not that long before we move along to the comics talk, starting with…

3:41-40:26: Peter Milligan’s The Discipline! We talk about Milligan’s latest project with Leonardo Fernandez in light of their other projects together (Greek Street and The Names) and separately (Enigma, Shade The Changing Man, Bad Company, The Human Target, among others). And this leads to a larger discussion about erotic comics, and whether or not all too often erotic comics are, as Graeme says, “the worst of both worlds,” or whether, as Jeff suggests, the sensuousness of a cartoonist’s technique can mesh with the sensuousness of sex to create an odd area all its own.

Also discussed: Howard Chaykin’s Black Kiss, Barbarella, Guido Crepax, Necron by “Magus” (really, writer Mirka Martini and illustrator Roberto Raviola), Italian erotic comics, and a very long bit of blather from Jeff about Gilbert Hernandez and why Jeff doesn’t think that Beto’s obsession with big breasts is about erotic attraction. And that leads into a discussion about Twilight Children, Darwyn Cooke, whether one can do a “major” work with work-for-hire superheroes, and more.

40:26-46:25: And continuing on in our talk about creators who may be past their prime but are still working, Graeme asks Jeff if he’s read the first issue of Neal Adams’ Superman: The Coming of the Supermen #1? Jeff hasn’t, to which Graeme replies: “That Batman: Odyssey magic is alive.” Discussed: Neal Adams’ work, that magic age when a cartoonist goes batshit, the foundation for superhero comics, and more.

46:25-1:10:25: And on a related subject: Dark Knight III #3 by Azzarello, Miller, Kubert and Romita, Jr., which has us talking about The Dark Knight Strikes Again!, Dark Knight Returns, Miller’s original pitch for DKR, Miller’s underlying conservatism (on many levels) in Dark Knight Strikes Again!, how much DKIII really takes place in the future or the present, Miller’s use of satire, a great much-shared piece by Susana Polo, politics on the Internet, and more.

1:10:25-1:26:54: With Dawn of Justice on the horizon, Graeme rewatched Man of Steel. SPOILERS: he likes it! Jeff hasn’t seen it recently but…SPOILERS: he didn’t. There’s some tussle over that, Graeme recounts a capsule summation of Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, we try to figure out how financially successful MoS was in its theatrical run, who should be cast as Darkseid and who we would cast as The New Gods, and more.

1:26:54-1:34:16: Because of all the new job craziness, Jeff has kind of been on an accidental vacation from the Internet and he’s kind of okay with it? Discussed: how to adjust one’s internet intake; times when the Internet feels stuck in a rut; Joss Whedon and John Cassaday writing a story for Captain America—a big story or not; and Jeff’s guess at the Whedon/Cassaday story.

1:34:16-1:52:24: “Jeff, tell me what you’ve read,” Graeme demands and what choice has Jeff but to comply? After our last discussion about Scott Snyder’s Batman #49 where Jeff expressed interest in reading Scott Snyder’s Justice League, and Graeme expresed the opposite after strongly disliking Superman Unchained, Jeff bought the digital version of Superman Unchained when it was on sale on Superman’s birthday. Why does the book not work? Scott Snyder’s thematic deconstruction of Superman? Jim Lee’s art? The New 52 incarnation of Superman which still doesn’t quite make sense? With so many culprits, it’s hard to settle on just one!

1:52:24-2:03:26: Jeff has also read a handful of Wonder Woman ’77 comics by Marc Andreyko and a variety of artists on which he has a few fast thoughts; and he’s also a read a bunch of issues of Batman and Detective Comics purchased in the Neal Adams Comixology sale, many of which have barely any Neal Adams work in them; Manhunter by Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson; and more.

2:03:26-end: Closing comments with one more slight digression about our appearances in letter columns and comic books (inspired by Matt Terl’s awesome column from a few weeks ago)! Look for us on Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Matt! Tumblr!

Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 118 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.

Next week: Baxter Building Ep. 15! Read Fantastic Four #119-126 with us!

It’s almost Halloween and I am currently very much enjoying the fruits of my labors…although you have to understand I’m using the term “labors” in the 21st Century First World definition, which is to say “purchases.”…