RogermcAllen:What he means to say is that the current all or nothing electoral college system leaves a lot of voters disenfranchised because their vote literally means nothing. If you live in Illinois below I-80 your vote for president does not matter, Chicago will carry the state for the Democrats even if everyone else votes Republican.

In terms of the history of our country, this is just a phase. Illinois went Republican in 1988. 24 years ago isn't THAT long ago.

theknuckler_33:Bill Frist: DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

I think I've only ever voted in person once. Just move around too much.

I'm the polar opposite. I've been in the same district (indeed, same house) since 2000, my polling place is about a mile away from home and I have been working from home on Tuesday's since at least 2004. I go at lunch, walk there, vote in 2 minutes because hardly anyone is there that time of day, and am back in time to make a sandwich. It's beautiful.

Hobodeluxe:RogermcAllen: LouDobbsAwaaaay: darkedgefan: What's the point. I live in NYC and want to vote for Romney. NYS will be blue until the end of time. I wish I could vote in OH or FL where my vote would matter.

Pretty sure moving out of New York isn't a crime.

What he means to say is that the current all or nothing electoral college system leaves a lot of voters disenfranchised because their vote literally means nothing. If you live in Illinois below I-80 your vote for president does not matter, Chicago will carry the state for the Democrats even if everyone else votes Republican.

yeah it's a damn shame that those city people's votes count as much as yours isn't it? what with their multi cultural ideals and sensibilities.

I'm a white male, age 18-49 (who lives in a battleground state) everyone listens to me.

theknuckler_33:StopLurkListen: Lost Thought 00: Most early and absentee votes are never counted. They only waste the labor to actually count them if they think it would make a difference, based on demographic statistics. In other words, they just predict your vote based on polling data and then assume how you would have voted.

Incorrect. (And wow, cynical)

Mail-in and provisional ballots will get counted IF they number more than the margin of victory on election day. By the way, there is often more than one office or provision to vote for on one ballot, so it's likely all ballots will need to be counted.

I'm pretty sure there is no single rule. Individual states control the election laws therein, so if anything, the rules for counting mail-in and absentee ballots differ by state.

True. But the Constitution's "equal protection clause" *is* the single rule. Any locality not counting all ballots when a margin of victory is less than the outstanding ballots is lawsuit bait under the equal protection clause. And they'd lose.

Often on election night you hear the news about "X" winning, and a few weeks or so later you might read on page D14 about the updated margin of victory. Very rarely the results 'flip' because of miscounting or another error on election night, but it does happen.

DamnYankees:I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

I know the feeling. Shiat, I took off the last two Presidential Election Days to help with GOTV stuff but once that wound down I just sat back and enjoyed the feeling of it all. It really is cool.

Anyway, I wish to hell we could get a national early voting policy that applied to all 50 states. And like someone else said, just start the voting period and don't stop it until the evening of Election Day.

abb3w:Does subby have an inside track on the upcoming October Surprise, and fear it will leave the country laughing too long and hard for them to vote in November?

Romneys October Surprise for Obama will be Hannity re-releasing that go-nowhere video of Obama man-hugging a professor while in college, and just hoping nobody notices it's a repeat of an already failed smear campaign.

StopLurkListen:Mail-in and provisional ballots will get counted IF they number more than the margin of victory on election day. By the way, there is often more than one office or provision to vote for on one ballot, so it's likely all ballots will need to be counted.

This is incorrect. Any ballots that come in early are going to be run through the counting machines first, typically as soon as the polls close on election day.

LouDobbsAwaaaay:abb3w: Does subby have an inside track on the upcoming October Surprise, and fear it will leave the country laughing too long and hard for them to vote in November?

Romneys October Surprise for Obama will be Hannity re-releasing that go-nowhere video of Obama man-hugging a professor while in college, and just hoping nobody notices it's a repeat of an already failed smear campaign.

I have a conspiracy theory on why people are so confident Mitt will win in November.

1) people use the name of dead people to increase their votes2) mormons have been baptizing dead people3) mostly Jews4) there are tons of retired Jews in Florida, a key battleground state5)???6) Win the Election

Lost Thought 00:AngryTeacher: DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

I used to feel that way until I voted in 2004. After two hours in line, I had to go to work. I never voted in that election.

Your employer cannot, by law, punish you for taking time off to vote

Unless you live in a "right to work" state. Then the can fire you because they dont like the way you tie your shoes.

MrSplifferton:I have a conspiracy theory on why people are so confident Mitt will win in November.

1) people use the name of dead people to increase their votes2) mormons have been baptizing dead people3) mostly Jews4) there are tons of retired Jews in Florida, a key battleground state5)???6) Win the Election

Hobodeluxe:theknuckler_33: Bill Frist: DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

I think I've only ever voted in person once. Just move around too much.

I'm the polar opposite. I've been in the same district (indeed, same house) since 2000, my polling place is about a mile away from home and I have been working from home on Tuesday's since at least 2004. I go at lunch, walk there, vote in 2 minutes because hardly anyone is there that time of day, and am back in time to make a sandwich. It's beautiful.

you must not live in a big city. they have to wait in line for hours. especially the black neighborhoods in GOP controlled states. in 2004 they had to wait all day in Cleveland,,in the cold rain..to vote.

I live in a reasonably big city (Seattle is about the same size as Cleveland), and before vote-by-mail was mandated, I rarely waited in line at all and never more than a few minutes. What you're describing here isn't the inevitable result of city living; it's an intentional effort clear. to disenfranchise specific voters. I don't think you were disagreeing with that conclusion, I just wanted to be perfectly clear.

BMulligan:Hobodeluxe: theknuckler_33: Bill Frist: DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

I think I've only ever voted in person once. Just move around too much.

I'm the polar opposite. I've been in the same district (indeed, same house) since 2000, my polling place is about a mile away from home and I have been working from home on Tuesday's since at least 2004. I go at lunch, walk there, vote in 2 minutes because hardly anyone is there that time of day, and am back in time to make a sandwich. It's beautiful.

you must not live in a big city. they have to wait in line for hours. especially the black neighborhoods in GOP controlled states. in 2004 they had to wait all day in Cleveland,,in the cold rain..to vote.

I live in a reasonably big city (Seattle is about the same size as Cleveland), and before vote-by-mail was mandated, I rarely waited in line at all and never more than a few minutes. What you're describing here isn't the inevitable result of city living; it's an intentional effort clear. to disenfranchise specific voters. I don't think you were disagreeing with that conclusion, I just wanted to be perfectly clear.

Because nothing says "Our policies are supported by the majority of Americans" like voter disenfranchisement.

borg:olddeegee: borg: I have to I'm leaving the country in a couple of weeks and not returning until after the election.

No you don't. There are many people across the country who are just too disgusted to vote. Most recently a large number of long time Republicans.

You know thats BS right, this election is close. The polls are dead even. Nobody who regularly votes is staying home.

My BFF (conservative) is not voting this election. He freakin' hates Obama but refuses to vote for Romney. His co-workers (about a dozen or so) all feel the same way. Yeah, I know, anecdotal blah blah, but there it is.

Lost Thought 00:Most early and absentee votes are never counted. They only waste the labor to actually count them if they think it would make a difference, based on demographic statistics. In other words, they just predict your vote based on polling data and then assume how you would have voted.

No early voting in PA, but I've worked the polls here, and can attest that absentee ballots are hand counted at the end of the day and reported at exactly the same time as the machine vote totals.

It's a vaguely adversarial process. Judge of the election watches as Majority and Minority Inspectors remove each ballot from it's individually identifiable outer envelope, mix up the anonymous inner envelopes, then open one ballot at a time and tally the results on a form that each poll worker has to sign off on.

Lost Thought 00:Most early and absentee votes are never counted. They only waste the labor to actually count them if they think it would make a difference, based on demographic statistics. In other words, they just predict your vote based on polling data and then assume how you would have voted.

Unless you live in dodgy state like Florida - early and absentee votes are ALWAYS counted. That is why the final numbers always differ from what is finally reported when an election is certified weeks later.

404 page not found:My BFF (conservative) is not voting this election. He freakin' hates Obama but refuses to vote for Romney. His co-workers (about a dozen or so) all feel the same way. Yeah, I know, anecdotal blah blah, but there it is.

This election environment feels very much like Bush/Kerry. Conservatives are as excited about Romney as liberals were about Kerry. And it will sink Romney as it did Kerry.

Mitt Romneys Tax Return:DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

Being an old fart, I still miss going to the polls a bit when voting by mail here in Oregon.

/ Supports vote by mail.// Ballots won't arrive for another two or three weeks.

Yeah what's up with this in Oregon? When I lived in Nevada I just went and voted, here I'm waiting for my ballot to vote?

Quadruple Entendre:Or, you know, you could wait for the debates, and hear the candidates for the various races talk about their governing intentions first.

A, how many people are honestly undecided in this election? I mean really now?B, why not get the base voters out of the way early to ease the congestion for the undecideds? So we don't have stories about 5-hour lines and precincts running out of ballots.

gingerjet:404 page not found: My BFF (conservative) is not voting this election. He freakin' hates Obama but refuses to vote for Romney. His co-workers (about a dozen or so) all feel the same way. Yeah, I know, anecdotal blah blah, but there it is.

This election environment feels very much like Bush/Kerry. Conservatives are as excited about Romney as liberals were about Kerry. And it will sink Romney as it did Kerry.

I was about to disagree because I'm a contrarian POS, but I gotta agree with you. I was deployed during the '04 election and remember all this conjecture and speculation that was going around about how the Muslim world would go ape-shiat if Bush got re-elected. It's almost like this 2-party system is designed this way. Btw, this is not a "both sides". I'm definitely voting for Obama (again), even though he is center-right and I am far-left. Obama has definitely disappointed me but 2000-2008 (most of my 20's) had to be the worst, I don't even know how to describe it. I truly don't understand, aside from the obvious racism, how this election will be so close.

Baby Face Fister:Mitt Romneys Tax Return: DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

Being an old fart, I still miss going to the polls a bit when voting by mail here in Oregon.

/ Supports vote by mail.// Ballots won't arrive for another two or three weeks.

Yeah what's up with this in Oregon? When I lived in Nevada I just went and voted, here I'm waiting for my ballot to vote?

I'm not sure what you mean. Did you vote early in Nevada by going to a polling place?

There are no polling places in Oregon, it's all vote by mail. You ususally have about three weeks and ballots have to be in by 8pm on election day.

Mitt Romneys Tax Return:DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

Being an old fart, I still miss going to the polls a bit when voting by mail here in Oregon.

/ Supports vote by mail.// Ballots won't arrive for another two or three weeks.

I don't really miss it. Sure, it's nice to see the public spirit and visit with your neighbors, but I rather like voting with a beer in one hand and a pen in the other.

Snarfangel:Mitt Romneys Tax Return: DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

Being an old fart, I still miss going to the polls a bit when voting by mail here in Oregon.

/ Supports vote by mail.// Ballots won't arrive for another two or three weeks.

I don't really miss it. Sure, it's nice to see the public spirit and visit with your neighbors, but I rather like voting with a beer in one hand and a pen in the other.

/and the voter pamphlet in my other left hand.

Awesome! Now I can start the production of my exclusive TF-shirts! The market is finally here!

Actually, now that I think of it, most of my relatives in Kansas (all super-conservative) aren't voting either. They'll be gosh-darned if they ever vote for a big-government nigotiater, and they sure as shiat ain't voting for Romney (two words: abortion). And that's about a hunnert or so of my relatives in Kansas. I guess I can sort of understand why Kansas officials are working hard to get Obama off of the ballot.

Mitt Romneys Tax Return:Baby Face Fister: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: DamnYankees: I don't like early or absentee voting. For myself, I mean. I like waking up at 5 AM on election day and getting to the polls right when they open and participating in the event. Makes me feel all civic-y.

Being an old fart, I still miss going to the polls a bit when voting by mail here in Oregon.

/ Supports vote by mail.// Ballots won't arrive for another two or three weeks.

Yeah what's up with this in Oregon? When I lived in Nevada I just went and voted, here I'm waiting for my ballot to vote?

I'm not sure what you mean. Did you vote early in Nevada by going to a polling place?

There are no polling places in Oregon, it's all vote by mail. You ususally have about three weeks and ballots have to be in by 8pm on election day.

Smoking GNU:You know what would be funny? If Obama wins off this alone.

I was informed by an Obama campaign volunteer several weeks ago that Iowa was won by early voting in 2008. If the voting had been only counting Election Day votes McCain would have won, supposedly. I'm not buying it--McCain didn't have a chance after rebuffing Ethanol subsidies. But that is what he said.

Gosling:Quadruple Entendre: Or, you know, you could wait for the debates, and hear the candidates for the various races talk about their governing intentions first.

A, how many people are honestly undecided in this election? I mean really now?B, why not get the base voters out of the way early to ease the congestion for the undecideds? So we don't have stories about 5-hour lines and precincts running out of ballots.

So then, you've properly educated yourself on the issues of all the races on the ballot, and no possible event could occur between now and November to make you change your mind, or even withhold a vote, in any race?

BSABSVR:StopLurkListen: Mail-in and provisional ballots will get counted IF they number more than the margin of victory on election day. By the way, there is often more than one office or provision to vote for on one ballot, so it's likely all ballots will need to be counted.

This is incorrect. Any ballots that come in early are going to be run through the counting machines first, typically as soon as the polls close on election day.

In my experience in different voting jurisdictions, it varies. Some process absentee ballots as soon as they come in; some seal them until election day and do them last. The commonality seems to be if the absentee ballot is the same as election day ballots (paper vs. electronic, for example)

Somacandra:Smoking GNU: You know what would be funny? If Obama wins off this alone.

I was informed by an Obama campaign volunteer several weeks ago that Iowa was won by early voting in 2008. If the voting had been only counting Election Day votes McCain would have won, supposedly. I'm not buying it--McCain didn't have a chance after rebuffing Ethanol subsidies. But that is what he said.

I have a hard time beliving that that data is ever released to the public (unless maybe there were potential shenanegans, and then a lawsuit like Bush v. Gore.)

404 page not found:Quadruple Entendre: no possible event could occur between now and November to make you change your mind

Like, say, maybe we find out Sheriff Joe is right and 0bummer is really a ferner or maybe that Romney is actually NOT severely conservative?

Or maybe you find out that someone you favor in any of the races has a serious skeleton in their closet that comes out between now and election day.

It's not just the presidential race that's at stake. Your vote means something. Reserve it until you're fully educated. There is a LOT more to be learned between now and November about all the candidates.

Yeah, I know, that's boring, and would require taking an active interest in something of more substance than OMG RMONEY WILL STEEL YOUR MEDICAREZ! or OMG 0BAMA IS A MUSLIN!!11! There's more to the responsibility of voting than just picking a team. It's not a fkin football game.

Quadruple Entendre:So then, you've properly educated yourself on the issues of all the races on the ballot, and no possible event could occur between now and November to make you change your mind, or even withhold a vote, in any race?

I'm pretty damn sure the GOP is not suddenly going to make up for twelve years of stupid and four years of crazy in the next six weeks, and I've seen what happens to any sane-looking Republican that actually tries to be sane. I saw what happened to Joe Cao.