Wow, it's been a long while since we've revisited this thread... but, I just wanted to see
what everyone thought of Harry listing X3 up there with Ghost Rider for "Marvel Shit night" (2nd review down)?

I know he hated X3, but to lump it in with Ghost Rider and Elektra is a little overboard.
Hell, according to the Zone's own pole it is at least a 6.5 out of 10. I can see comic purists
calling foul of the story and throwing fits of rage. But compared to the other two films,
X3 is not off par at all. I guess I just don't get the continued irrational hatred.

I watched this again recently after about a year. At about the time Magneto was hurling flaming cars, I thought to myself, "fuckin'-A. He's hurling flaming cars. This is something you don't see every day. Its so over the top its just fucking great."

Now, I'm not saying the whle film was flaming-car-great, but it was pretty fun, IMHO. Lots wrong with it, but what the hell, its pretty bombastically fun. I'd watch it again.

"All we have is language; that's the one tool that enables us to grasp hold of our lives and transcend our fate by understanding it." -Harlan Ellison

Vegeta wrote:Wow, it's been a long while since we've revisited this thread... but, I just wanted to see what everyone thought of Grande Rojo listing X3 up there with Ghost Rider for "Marvel Shit night" (2nd review down)?

I know he hated X3, but to lump it in with Ghost Rider and Elektra is a little overboard. Hell, according to the Zone's own pole it is at least a 6.5 out of 10. I can see comic puristscalling foul of the story and throwing fits of rage. But compared to the other two films, X3 is not off par at all. I guess I just don't get the continued irrational hatred.

take the same movie, the same exact movie, only with Brian Singer's name on the credits as director, and H@rry writes it an apologist love letter.

Vegeta wrote:Wow, it's been a long while since we've revisited this thread... but, I just wanted to see what everyone thought of Grande Rojo listing X3 up there with Ghost Rider for "Marvel Shit night" (2nd review down)?

I know he hated X3, but to lump it in with Ghost Rider and Elektra is a little overboard. Hell, according to the Zone's own pole it is at least a 6.5 out of 10. I can see comic puristscalling foul of the story and throwing fits of rage. But compared to the other two films, X3 is not off par at all. I guess I just don't get the continued irrational hatred.

take the same movie, the same exact movie, only with Brian Singer's name on the credits as director, and H@rry writes it an apologist love letter.

That was exactly what I was thinking and what I was waiting for someone to say.
I honestly don't see that much difference in the look and/or feel of the films. And, honestly
X3 fits a lot more action into a shorter screen time. Heck we even get an all-out kick-ass fight
at the end. More than I can say about the first two (lots of one on one stuff, mostly).
I am certainly not saying it is the best comic film ever, hell, I am not even saying it
is the best of the series (although X1 is quite forgetable and underwhelming)...
but, one of the worst comic films ever... please.

See...for me it does rank as one of the worst because of the quality of the first two films. Particularly after the second film, which I simply adore, set the table for what should have been an epic and unforgettable bookend to the trilogy.

Instead, we got a very hollow and very shallow film. The only thing it had going for it was its short running time. Had it gone on for two hours I may have exploded from rage. I suppose if someone didn't really have a love for the franchise then maybe they can find something fun about the film, but I simply cannot forgive and will not forget what was done to that film.

Particularly hurtful to me was the fact that I wanted to like this movie. I sat there and did my best to defend the film for a year before its release when the buzz was nothing but bad. I just chalked it up to people hating for the sake of hating. I didn't want to believe it was the trainwreck that people were painting it to be. When the negative script review came in I took comfort in the fact that script's can change...or the possibility that this was not the real deal. I really, really, really liked the first trailer. I thought it played a lot better than the SR trailer. Driving to the theatre to see it I was giddy as fuck. I was genuinely excited. That is what kills me. That I turned a blind eye to the negativity and defended the film when my brother and some of our friends would talk about how doomed it was...only to have my worst fears realized once the shitty opneing score and credits sequence started to roll. The film was different...I could sense it. That day is not one I will soon forget.

Vegeta wrote:Wow, it's been a long while since we've revisited this thread... but, I just wanted to see what everyone thought of Grande Rojo listing X3 up there with Ghost Rider for "Marvel Shit night" (2nd review down)?

I know he hated X3, but to lump it in with Ghost Rider and Elektra is a little overboard. Hell, according to the Zone's own pole it is at least a 6.5 out of 10. I can see comic puristscalling foul of the story and throwing fits of rage. But compared to the other two films, X3 is not off par at all. I guess I just don't get the continued irrational hatred.

take the same movie, the same exact movie, only with Brian Singer's name on the credits as director, and H@rry writes it an apologist love letter.

It's not a disaster, but it's no where near great. I wish they would have left Phoenix out of the story completely. I think if that would have happened, I would have liked it more. And it would leave us a whole film (X4) for the Phoenix saga. The lost opportunities are more frustrating than the film itself, I think.

The film does get a few things right. Beast is perfect - the casting, the look, the dialogue, the character arc. Its just a brilliantly done part of the film for me, up there with Cumming as Nightcrawler in the 'Wow, that came out of left-field' awesomeness. They also did make an attempt to have it feel more epic than the others, with the huge battle at the end and the brutal deaths of Charles/Mystique.

But they dropped the ball on several things. The first of which was continuity, the bridge scene being absolutely atrocious in terms of logic. Then there's the 'screw you' to Cyclops, the taming of Wolverine, the way they mix two great stories (Cure/Phoenix) into one film without making them connect properly. Not to mention the way all Mutants gain jump factor 365 at the end.

Its a case of great idea, rushed execution. If they had three months extra to polish up the script, I think it could have been up there with X-Men II. Certain events seem to have been forced into being by an incredibly chaotic production.

I dont know if this has been said before, but I just watched this again (it was very cheap in the store), and finally got the proffessor X ending, ie how he is in the bed.
Earlier in the film, he is talking about the moral implications of switching the mind of a terminally ill patient, into the Dr's patient who was born without any mental functions. Dude in a bed with a beard, shown on the video clip to the kids.
Its the same patient we see at the end of the movie, so Xavier has obviously got over his moral high horse, and stole the dudes body.
But strangely it would mean he would have the old voice, in a new body if they made another movie, or appearance in a spin off etc.
Anyhoo, I just worked it out, so apologies if its old news, but it never occured to me before.

Mike Ryan wrote:I know The Dark Phoenix story in ‘The Last Stand’ meant a lot to you.

Yes, yes it did. And, I mean, we dismantled some stuff from ‘X1′ and ‘X2′ as well. It was interesting. There are a lot of things about ‘X3′ that I love and there are a lot of things that I regret.

What do you regret?

I regret that The Dark Phoenix story wasn’t the primary story of the movie.

But that wasn’t your choice.

It wasn’t my choice.

You wanted that to be the main story.

I wanted The Dark Phoenix story, but I regret where the movie ended up. And so, weirdly, this was sort of my opportunity, a little like the characters in ‘Days of Future Past’ going back and improving their younger selves with the lessons they’ve learned as wiser men. It’s sort of a chance for me to go back and do differently what I did ten years ago on ‘X3.’

Knowing it wouldn’t be the main storyline, would you have not fought as hard for The Dark Phoenix?

No, I would have fought harder for The Dark Phoenix. Listen, I think if we made that movie today, there are a lot of things that would be different. The universe today, culturally, is more open to a darker superhero film. And the darkness of her story was a little bit daunting on a huge $200 million studio movie. And, it would be less daunting today.

Ashley Lee & Aaron Couch wrote:The Dark Phoenix Saga is expected to make its way back to the big screen, with longtime X-Men writer-producer Simon Kinberg considered the top contender to step into the director's chair for 20th Century Fox.

Kinberg, who insists reports that he will direct are "premature," told Heat Vision on the carpet for a New York premiere of Logan that he does have a few thoughts on how things could go.

"I'm a huge fan of The Dark Phoenix story, and I felt like there was a lot that we didn't do in X-Men: The Last Stand, which was based on the Phoenix story. [Things] that if we were so lucky to get another chance, we would do differently," Kinberg said.

Kinberg co-wrote wrote 2006's X-Men: The Last Stand, which saw director Bryan Singer exit the director's chair and Brett Ratner take his place. It made moves such as Jean Grey/Phoenix (Famke Janssen) killing Prof. X (Patrick Stewart) and Cyclops (James Marsden), with Wolverine (Hugh Jackman) eventually killing Phoenix to stop her rampage. The film was so controversial that 2014's X-Men: Days of Future Past (also written by Kinberg) essentially erased it from the X-Men movie timeline.

In the comics, a space-adventure aspect was a key part of the Dark Phoenix Saga, while The Last Stand was Earthbound. The classic comics storyline sees Jean become the host for the Phoenix Force, a cosmic entity that eventually drives her to becoming a destructive force that ultimately leads to her death.

Kinberg has never directed, but says if he were to step into the job, he wouldn't be daunted by the scope and budget of an X-Men movie for a first project.

"I've been around movies of this scale for over a decade now. The first movie I ever worked on was Mr. and Mrs. Smith. It's five X-Men movies in, and there's The Martian. I've been around big movies," he said. "To me, what would be new about directing would be having more creative control than I do, as I did as a writer, and even as I do as a writer-producer."

Regardless if he directs, Kinberg already has a full plate as a producer. He is in casting mode for Deadpool 2 and doing prep on X-Men spinoff The New Mutants.

Sophie Turner played Jean Grey in last summer's X-Men: Apocalypse and is expected to reprise the role.

Ellen Page wrote:“You should fuck her to make her realize she’s Dumbledore.” He said this about me during a cast and crew “meet and greet” before we began filming, X Men: The Last Stand. I was eighteen years old. He looked at a woman standing next to me, ten years my senior, pointed to me and said: “You should fuck her to make her realize she’s Dumbledore.” He was the film’s director, Brett Ratner.

I was a young adult who had not yet come out to myself. I knew I was Dumbledore, but did not know, so to speak. I felt violated when this happened. I looked down at my feet, didn’t say a word and watched as no one else did either. This man, who had cast me in the film, started our months of filming at a work event with this horrific, unchallenged plea. He “outed” me with no regard for my well-being, an act we all recognize as homophobic. I proceeded to watch him on set say degrading things to women. I remember a woman walking by the monitor as he made a comment about her “flappy pussy”.

We are all entitled to come into an awareness of our sexual orientation privately and on our own terms. I was young and although already a working actor for so long I had in many ways been insulated, growing up on film sets instead of surrounded by my peers. This public, aggressive outing left me with long standing feelings of shame, one of the most destructive results of homophobia. Making someone feel ashamed of who they are is a cruel manipulation, designed to oppress and repress. I was robbed of more than autonomy over my ability to define myself. Ratner’s comment replayed in my mind many times over the years as I encountered homophobia and coped with feelings of reluctance and uncertainty about the industry and my future in it. The difference is that I can now assert myself and use my voice to to fight back against the insidious queer and transphobic attitude in Hollywood and beyond. Hopefully having the position I have, I can help people who may be struggling to be accepted and allowed to be who they are –to thrive. Vulnerable young people without my advantages are so often diminished and made to feel they have no options for living the life they were meant to joyously lead.

I got into an altercation with Brett at a certain point. He was pressuring me, in front of many people, to don a t-shirt with “Team Ratner” on it. I said no and he insisted. I responded, “I am not on your team.” Later in the day, producers of the film came to my trailer to say that I “couldn’t talk like that to him.” I was being reprimanded, yet he was not being punished nor fired for the blatantly homophobic and abusive behavior we all witnessed. I was an actor that no one knew. I was eighteen and had no tools to know how to handle the situation.

I have been a professional actor since the age of ten. I’ve had the good fortune to work with many honorable and respectful collaborators both behind and in front of the camera. But the behavior I’m describing is ubiquitous. They (abusers), want you to feel small, to make you insecure, to make you feel like you are indebted to them, or that your actions are to blame for their unwelcome advances.

When I was sixteen a director took me to dinner (a professional obligation and a very common one). He fondled my leg under the table and said, “You have to make the move, I can’t.” I did not make the move and I was fortunate to get away from that situation. It was a painful realization: my safety was not guaranteed at work. An adult authority figure for whom I worked intended to exploit me, physically. I was sexually assaulted by a grip months later. I was asked by a director to sleep with a man in his late twenties and to tell them about it. I did not. This is just what happened during my sixteenth year, a teenager in the entertainment industry.

Look at the history of what’s happened to minors who’ve described sexual abuse in Hollywood. Some of them are no longer with us, lost to substance abuse and suicide. Their victimizers? Still working. Protected even as I write this. You know who they are; they’ve been discussed behind closed doors as often as Weinstein was. If I, a person with significant privilege, remain reluctant and at such risk simply by saying a person’s name, what are the options for those who do not have what I have?

Let’s remember the epidemic of violence against women in our society disproportionately affects low income women, particularly women of color, trans and queer women and indigenous women, who are silenced by their economic circumstances and profound mistrust of a justice system that acquits the guilty in the face of overwhelming evidence and continues to oppress people of color. I have the means to hire security if I feel threatened. I have the wealth and insurance to receive mental health care. I have the privilege of having a platform that enables me to write this and have it published, while the most marginalized do not have access to such resources. The reality is, women of color, trans and queer and indigenous women have been leading this fight for decades (forever actually). Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, Winona LaDuke, Miss Major, Audre Lorde, bell hooks, to name a few. Misty Upham fought tirelessly to end violence against indigenous women, domestic workers and undocumented women. Misty was found dead at the bottom of a cliff three years ago. Her father, Charles Upham, just made a Facebook post saying she was raped at a party by a Miramax executive. The most marginalized have been left behind. As a cis, white lesbian, I have benefited and have the privileges I have, because of these extraordinary and courageous individuals who have led the way and risked their lives while doing so. White supremacy continues to silence people of color, while I have the rights I have because of these leaders. They are who we should be listening to and learning from.

These abusers make us feel powerless and overwhelmed by their empire. Let’s not forget the sitting Supreme Court justice and President of the United States. One accused of sexual harassment by Anita Hill, whose testimony was discredited. The other proudly describing his own pattern of assault to an entertainment reporter. How many men in the media – titans of industry - need to be exposed for us to understand the gravity of the situation and to demand the fundamental safety and respect that is our right?

Bill Cosby was known to be predatory. The crimes were his, but many were complicit. Many more chose to look the other way. Harvey was known to be predatory. The crimes were his, but many were complicit. Many more chose to look the other way. We continue to celebrate filmmaker Roman Polanski, who was convicted of drugging and anally raping a young girl and who fled sentencing. A fugitive from justice. I’ve heard the industry decry Weinstein’s behavior and vow to affect meaningful change. But let’s be truthful: the list is long and still protected by the status quo. We have work to do. We cannot look the other way.

I did a Woody Allen movie and it is the biggest regret of my career. I am ashamed I did this. I had yet to find my voice and was not who I am now and felt pressured, because “of course you have to say yes to this Woody Allen film.” Ultimately, however, it is my choice what films I decide to do and I made the wrong choice. I made an awful mistake.

I want to see these men have to face what they have done. I want them to not have power anymore. I want them to sit and think about who they are without their lawyers, their millions, their fancy cars, houses upon houses, their “playboy” status and swagger.

What I want the most, is for this to result in healing for the victims. For Hollywood to wake up and start taking some responsibility for how we all have played a role in this. I want us to reflect on this endemic issue and how this power dynamic of abuse leads to an enormous amount of suffering. Violence against women is an epidemic in this country and around the world. How is this cascade of immorality and injustice shaping our society? One of the greatest risks to a pregnant woman’s health in the United States is murder. Trans women of color in this country have a life expectancy of thirty-five. Why are we not addressing this as a society? We must remember the consequences of such actions. Mental health issues, suicide, eating disorders, substance abuse, to name a few.

What are we afraid to say and why can’t we say it? Women, particularly the most marginalized, are silenced, while powerful abusers can scream as loudly as they want, lie as much as they want and continue to profit through it all.

This is a long awaited reckoning. It must be. It’s sad that“codes of conduct” have to be enforced to ensure we experience fundamental human decency and respect. Inclusion and representation are the answer. We’ve learned that the status quo perpetuates unfair, victimizing behavior to protect and perpetuate itself. Don’t allow this behavior to be normalized. Don’t compare wrongs or criminal acts by their degrees of severity. Don’t allow yourselves to be numb to the voices of victims coming forward. Don’t stop demanding our civil rights. I am grateful to anyone and everyone who speaks out against abuse and trauma they have suffered. You are breaking the silence. You are revolution.

That's some alarming criminal sick and UNPUNISHED shit in there about the Miramax party attendant who apparently murdered that girl and had her body being found. Nothing came of it.

I hope something more comes of what she's talking about as Hollywood is full of criminals hiding behind money and power and the the glamour of it's entertainment industry. In my opinion it's not happening quick enough and to enough people.

I don' get why she's going on about Woody Allen though. There is no talk of personal pressurising or sexual harassment from him. It's not something directly related to being abused in the industry as a woman.

woody allen sexually abused his then-7-year-old daughter... arguably worse than most of the things we're learning about all these other guys. how he treats women in the "industry" shouldn't matter any more than how he treats his own child.