What is the Gospel to you? Start from the beggining of the biblical account.

The beginning of the Old Testament or the New?

Whatever it is the beggining to you. The beggining as in the beggining to why we needed a Gospel preaching.

Who's "we"? Some people don't need a Gospel preaching. They seem to be doing just fine without learning "the good news". It shouldn't be forced on them, or they may decide it's actually "bad news".

The Gospel is for everybody who wants to listen to it: it was for the crowds who gathered around Jesus, for the sick, the lame, the blind, the poor, the sinful (i.e. those who felt their sins and sought forgiveness), for Nicodemus who came to him by night, for the disciples who followed him, for the Samaritan and so on. Some disliked what they heard and were free to walk away.

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Luke 10:21 Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from [those who think themselves] wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will."

John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them."

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

So to answer your question: the beginning of the Gospel is feeling one's sin, misery, incompleteness, one's need for salvation.

What is the Gospel to you? Start from the beggining of the biblical account.

The beginning of the Old Testament or the New?

Whatever it is the beggining to you. The beggining as in the beggining to why we needed a Gospel preaching.

Who's "we"? Some people don't need a Gospel preaching. They seem to be doing just fine without learning "the good news". It shouldn't be forced on them, or they may decide it's actually "bad news".

The Gospel is for everybody who wants to listen to it: it was for the crowds who gathered around Jesus, for the sick, the lame, the sinful (i.e. those who felt their sins and sought forgiveness), for Nicodemus who came to him by night, for the disciples who followed him, for the Samaritan and so on. Some disliked what they heard and were free to walk away.

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Luke 10:21 Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the [those who think themselves] wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will."

John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them".

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

Adam and Eve sinned, and were separated from God even before that because 1) they were immature spiritually, and 2) they are created. God sent Jesus to bridge the gap between created and uncreated, and also to take care of our little sin problem. Now the option to be saved and inherit eternal life is open, if we are willing.

Some say, “Christ has paid my sin debt, and therefore I am no longer guilty.” Then, they continue to live an unaltered, unmoved life, thinking that heaven awaits them when they die. Others say, “I must strive to know God through a life of contemplation and asceticism.” But at the end of their life they still do not know Him.

So, what is the proper emphasis of the Gospel? Is it forensic in essence, or mystical? Is the theme of the Gospel soteriological, i.e. the salvation of man, or is it doxological, i.e. the glory of God? Is the Gospel to be understood as God’s gracious condescension to fallen man, or fallen man’s inability to know a transcendent God?

The Catholicism and Protestantism of the West have attempted to answer these questions via the rationalistic approaches of Scholasticism and various “systematic theologies.” Learned and sincere theologians have endeavored to reduce the deep mysteries of God and the rich treasures of the Holy Gospel to a system of mortal logic that will make them comprehensible to the finite mind. But God cannot be known by any system of mortal philosophy; and the beautiful truths of the Gospel cannot be adequately encapsulated in a logical syllogism.

Therefore, Orthodoxy simply affirms what the Scriptures say, and does not stumble over apparent contradiction or paradox. The truths and reality of God transcend contradiction and paradox, and thus we prostrate our own fallible understanding before His holy Mysteries. We accept that God is unknowable, and yet by grace we experience Him. We affirm that Christ has paid our sin debt, and yet we recognize that the meaning of the Cross is too vast to be summed up by the analogies of mortal jurisprudence. As Orthodox Christians, we proclaim the Nicene Creed as the summation of the Gospel, knowing that mystical depth is found in its brevity and concision. Our Creed is not a comprehensive dissection of divine truth, but a sufficient description.

The Holy Gospel is the mystical message of redemption, grace, mercy, judgment, hope, sacrifice, salvation, peace, love, atonement, forgiveness, reconciliation, oneness, repentance, justice, deliverance, life, heaven and hell. This holy message has been entrusted to the Church, which proclaims its truth to the world and reveals its Mysteries to the faithful. We adore the Holy Gospel as the light for our souls, but we dare not claim to grasp its depth with our finite minds. We immerse ourselves in the ocean of the Divine, allowing the Spirit of His waves to draw us to His knowledge and nearness.

""Love is a dangerous thing. It will crush you if you trust it. But without it you can never be whole. Love crucifies, but love saves. We will either be saved together with love, or damned alone without it." Selam, +GMK+

What is the Gospel to you? Start from the beggining of the biblical account.

God created everything, mankind broke everything, God became a man so that he can fix everything.

What was this crass sin that broke the entire cosmic stability and equilibrium ?

This equilibrium is still unfixed as we speak. Crimes still happen in the world, corruption sickness still exists, violence exists, lies exist and ultimately we still die.

Disobedience.

Did God play vain games on the first people? Why did he banned Adam and Eve from eating from a certain tree, just to be able to punish them later (He having foreknowledge and all)? What was so wrong in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that God had to deny it to them? And if the tree of knowledge of good and evil was so immoral who planted it in the Garden of Eden? Didn't God knew having foreknowledge that they will sin/fall into temptation? If Adam was imperfect, inclined to accept the temptation it is only because God created him like that. Why did God punish Adam for something he did? More why did he get so angry to cause a cosmological cataclism and punish the entire creation and the entire future human race for that? How is that fair?

What is the Gospel to you? Start from the beggining of the biblical account.

God created everything, mankind broke everything, God became a man so that he can fix everything.

What was this crass sin that broke the entire cosmic stability and equilibrium ?

This equilibrium is still unfixed as we speak. Crimes still happen in the world, corruption sickness still exists, violence exists, lies exist and ultimately we still die.

Disobedience.

Did God play vain games on the first people? Why did he banned Adam and Eve from eating from a certain tree, just to be able to punish them later (He having foreknowledge and all)? What was so wrong in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that God had to deny it to them? And if the tree of knowledge of good and evil was so immoral who planted it in the Garden of Eden? Didn't God knew having foreknowledge that they will sin/fall into temptation? If Adam was imperfect, inclined to accept the temptation it is only because God created him like that. Why did God punish Adam for something he did? More why did he get so angry to cause a cosmological cataclism and punish the entire creation and the entire future human race for that? How is that fair?

Because man, even then, had free will. God warned Adam and Eve, but He did not wish to force humanity to obey Him. The fall lead to all that evil you mentioned earlier.

Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

What is the Gospel to you? Start from the beggining of the biblical account.

God created everything, mankind broke everything, God became a man so that he can fix everything.

What was this crass sin that broke the entire cosmic stability and equilibrium ?

This equilibrium is still unfixed as we speak. Crimes still happen in the world, corruption sickness still exists, violence exists, lies exist and ultimately we still die.

Disobedience.

Did God play vain games on the first people? Why did he banned Adam and Eve from eating from a certain tree, just to be able to punish them later (He having foreknowledge and all)? What was so wrong in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that God had to deny it to them? And if the tree of knowledge of good and evil was so immoral who planted it in the Garden of Eden? Didn't God knew having foreknowledge that they will sin/fall into temptation? If Adam was imperfect, inclined to accept the temptation it is only because God created him like that. Why did God punish Adam for something he did? More why did he get so angry to cause a cosmological cataclism and punish the entire creation and the entire future human race for that? How is that fair?

Because man, even then, had free will. God warned Adam and Eve, but He did not wish to force humanity to obey Him. The fall lead to all that evil you mentioned earlier.

The fall happened because of what? The tree of knowledge of good and evil. Who planted that tree there? Who gave the commandment? Who made Adam and Eve? Who had foreknowledge ?

The tree of life represents the Holy Spirit dwelling in the hearts of the faithful, as St. Paul says: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you?" (1 Cor. 6:19)

The tree of knowledge of good and evil represents our senses which produce contrasting fruits: pleasure and pain.

Each of these is divided in turn into two: there is a pleasure arising from natural needs, and there is pleasure arising from debauchery; then there is pain consisting of fear and sorrow, and there is pain coming as a consequence of struggle and spiritual burdens. The fruits are good if we pluck them, keeping close to nature at the right season.

God has planted this tree in our hearts, this sense of good and evil, for a good purpose: to test us, to make trial of our obedience, to give us the opportunity to live in accordance with nature or not, as we choose, and to follow what leads to perfection or to imperfection.

The tree of life represents the Holy Spirit dwelling in the hearts of the faithful, as St. Paul says: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you?" (1 Cor. 6:19)

The tree of knowledge of good and evil represents our senses which produce contrasting fruits: pleasure and pain.

Each of these is divided in turn into two: there is a pleasure arising from natural needs, and there is pleasure arising from debauchery; then there is pain consisting of fear and sorrow, and there is pain coming as a consequence of struggle and spiritual burdens. The fruits are good if we pluck them, keeping close to nature at the right season.

God has planted this tree in our hearts, this sense of good and evil, for a good purpose: to test us, to make trial of our obedience, to give us the opportunity to live in accordance with nature or not, as we choose, and to follow what leads to perfection or to imperfection.

St. Nicetas Stethatos, The Spiritual Paradise 5

You quote others whom you know not what they say(mean). Nevertheless good. The question remains which you would know not what to answer. What CONCRETELY was the first sin(the sin of Adam and Eve) ?

What is the Gospel to you? Start from the beggining of the biblical account.

God created everything, mankind broke everything, God became a man so that he can fix everything.

What was this crass sin that broke the entire cosmic stability and equilibrium ?

This equilibrium is still unfixed as we speak. Crimes still happen in the world, corruption sickness still exists, violence exists, lies exist and ultimately we still die.

Disobedience.

Did God play vain games on the first people? Why did he banned Adam and Eve from eating from a certain tree, just to be able to punish them later (He having foreknowledge and all)? What was so wrong in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that God had to deny it to them? And if the tree of knowledge of good and evil was so immoral who planted it in the Garden of Eden? Didn't God knew having foreknowledge that they will sin/fall into temptation? If Adam was imperfect, inclined to accept the temptation it is only because God created him like that. Why did God punish Adam for something he did? More why did he get so angry to cause a cosmological cataclism and punish the entire creation and the entire future human race for that? How is that fair?

Because man, even then, had free will. God warned Adam and Eve, but He did not wish to force humanity to obey Him. The fall lead to all that evil you mentioned earlier.

The fall happened because of what? The tree of knowledge of good and evil. Who planted that tree there? Who gave the commandment? Who made Adam and Eve? Who had foreknowledge ?

Before the fall, Adam and Eve had a perfect relationship with God. When they chose to disobey Him, they brought sin into the world and that perfect relationship was broken. Christ came to reestablish that relationship, that is, once again to show us the Path to Theosis, to Salvation. God might have known that Adam and Eve would sin, but He gave them the possibility not to do so. That is free will. By believing in Christ and by following His teachings, we have the hope that the perfect relationship, that existed before the fall, will again come to be.

Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

The tree of life represents the Holy Spirit dwelling in the hearts of the faithful, as St. Paul says: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you?" (1 Cor. 6:19)

The tree of knowledge of good and evil represents our senses which produce contrasting fruits: pleasure and pain.

Each of these is divided in turn into two: there is a pleasure arising from natural needs, and there is pleasure arising from debauchery; then there is pain consisting of fear and sorrow, and there is pain coming as a consequence of struggle and spiritual burdens. The fruits are good if we pluck them, keeping close to nature at the right season.

God has planted this tree in our hearts, this sense of good and evil, for a good purpose: to test us, to make trial of our obedience, to give us the opportunity to live in accordance with nature or not, as we choose, and to follow what leads to perfection or to imperfection.

St. Nicetas Stethatos, The Spiritual Paradise 5

You quote others whom you know not what they say(mean). Nevertheless good. The question remains which you would know not what to answer. What CONCRETELY was the first sin(the sin of Adam and Eve) ?

St. Nicetas just told us.

Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

The tree of life represents the Holy Spirit dwelling in the hearts of the faithful, as St. Paul says: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you?" (1 Cor. 6:19)

The tree of knowledge of good and evil represents our senses which produce contrasting fruits: pleasure and pain.

Each of these is divided in turn into two: there is a pleasure arising from natural needs, and there is pleasure arising from debauchery; then there is pain consisting of fear and sorrow, and there is pain coming as a consequence of struggle and spiritual burdens. The fruits are good if we pluck them, keeping close to nature at the right season.

God has planted this tree in our hearts, this sense of good and evil, for a good purpose: to test us, to make trial of our obedience, to give us the opportunity to live in accordance with nature or not, as we choose, and to follow what leads to perfection or to imperfection.

St. Nicetas Stethatos, The Spiritual Paradise 5

You quote others whom you know not what they say(mean). Nevertheless good. The question remains which you would know not what to answer. What CONCRETELY was the first sin(the sin of Adam and Eve) ?

You quote others whom you know not what they say(mean). Nevertheless good. The question remains which you would know not what to answer. What CONCRETELY was the first sin(the sin of Adam and Eve) ?

It matters and it doesn't matter. It's my own sin that should concern me. As the Buddha was saying about one who's shot by an arrow: only a fool would care to first find out who shot it or to examine what it's made of - his first concern is to get it out, tend to the wound and stop the pain. Suffering (sin) is a quite concrete personal experience, the metaphysics matter less than the cure.

There is one Adam - all of mankind. God, the Angels, the Saints, the Kingdom of heaven (paradise), the demons and hell are all inside our hearts - the Fathers tell us. So, as they say: de te fabula narratur.

In Orthodoxy, it is considered a virtue if one speaks not of himself (that way we are quickly caught up in error), but sticks to Scripture and the Fathers (the tried and confirmed witnesses of truth).

The tree of life represents the Holy Spirit dwelling in the hearts of the faithful, as St. Paul says: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you?" (1 Cor. 6:19)

The tree of knowledge of good and evil represents our senses which produce contrasting fruits: pleasure and pain.

Each of these is divided in turn into two: there is a pleasure arising from natural needs, and there is pleasure arising from debauchery; then there is pain consisting of fear and sorrow, and there is pain coming as a consequence of struggle and spiritual burdens. The fruits are good if we pluck them, keeping close to nature at the right season.

God has planted this tree in our hearts, this sense of good and evil, for a good purpose: to test us, to make trial of our obedience, to give us the opportunity to live in accordance with nature or not, as we choose, and to follow what leads to perfection or to imperfection.

St. Nicetas Stethatos, The Spiritual Paradise 5

You quote others whom you know not what they say(mean). Nevertheless good. The question remains which you would know not what to answer. What CONCRETELY was the first sin(the sin of Adam and Eve) ?

St. Nicetas just told us.

I said concretely. What sinful act did they commit?

Read Genesis.

Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

Why did he banned Adam and Eve from eating from a certain tree, just to be able to punish them later (He having foreknowledge and all)?

I can’t speak for God, but I find it interesting people get upset over this. They had one rule, one, and they couldn’t keep it to literally save their lives. Had they obeyed, they would still be here and there would be no sin in the world. This was the only rule they had to show God they wanted to be His children and do as He asked. Don’t place the blame on God, place it on Adam and Even.

What was so wrong in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that God had to deny it to them?

For starters, because He said so. Outside of that, the tree didn’t have magic. It was the act of disobedience which was the problem. It could have been any plant I imagine. What was so important they HAD to deny God to eat of the tree?

If Adam was imperfect, inclined to accept the temptation it is only because God created him like that.

You mean, sentient? Yeah, how much better would it be if man was like an animal and did only what his innate behavior told him to do. Much better, yes? You seem to be attempting to blame God for man’s failures. Do you blame your parents for yours?

More why did he get so angry to cause a cosmological cataclism and punish the entire creation and the entire future human race for that?

I don’t see it as God getting angry. I actually believe He was extremely sad about the events which unfolded in the Garden. It wasn’t anger, it was discipline. That thing which keeps up in line and lets us know who is in charge. You are still placing blame here on God rather than on man, who caused all these problems.

Why do you ask vague questions, get mad when we return the favor by giving vague answers, and then when you begrudingly clarify what you're asking about, refuse to admit when we give more elaborate and correct answers? Are you looking for a reason not to believe?

The tree of life represents the Holy Spirit dwelling in the hearts of the faithful, as St. Paul says: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you?" (1 Cor. 6:19)

The tree of knowledge of good and evil represents our senses which produce contrasting fruits: pleasure and pain.

Each of these is divided in turn into two: there is a pleasure arising from natural needs, and there is pleasure arising from debauchery; then there is pain consisting of fear and sorrow, and there is pain coming as a consequence of struggle and spiritual burdens. The fruits are good if we pluck them, keeping close to nature at the right season.

God has planted this tree in our hearts, this sense of good and evil, for a good purpose: to test us, to make trial of our obedience, to give us the opportunity to live in accordance with nature or not, as we choose, and to follow what leads to perfection or to imperfection.

St. Nicetas Stethatos, The Spiritual Paradise 5

You quote others whom you know not what they say(mean). Nevertheless good. The question remains which you would know not what to answer. What CONCRETELY was the first sin(the sin of Adam and Eve) ?

This will be the last time that I reply to one of your posts, so please hear me out. Perhaps I am foolish for thinking that you will listen, as you have betrayed scant evidence of listening to anyone else here. However, I boldly pray for your enlightenment and salvation, even though I do not know you or exactly what you are going through.

I have replied in earnest to you twice already, strongly suggesting that these questions are best addressed through more direct avenues, especially since your profile suggests that you belong to the body of Christ, His Church, and since you seem to be tormented by many doubts. I did not see a response to either of my previous messages, so I will re-iterate my suggestion once more: You should speak with a priest and completely bare your soul, along with all of these questions and doubts, in confession before Christ. This will help a great deal. I still believe it may also be advisable for you to visit with a monastic Elder with a reputation for great humility and holiness, who can help you with your questions, teach you about prayer and intercede for you in a powerful way before the Lord. Rest assured, all of your interrogations here will remain fruitless outside of an active faith and life in Christ, and will only serve to agitate you further.

The good news is this: All of your questions have been answered! The Lord Himself is the Truth, 'in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge' (Col. 2:3), and the Church is '[...] the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.' (1 Timothy 3:15)

The problem, as far as I can tell, is that you come across here as very impatient and almost defiant in many places. This is part of why you are not getting the answers that you ask for, because others sense this and become frustrated by it. We get what we give. These are signs of an abundance of pride, which you must pray about and learn to struggle against if you are to receive the answers to the questions you seek. Please do not interpret this as self-righteous judgment on my part, for I speak out of brotherly concern, as one who suffers from the same weaknesses. Above all, remember the importance of faith in the asking of these questions and that 'blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.' (Jn 20:29)

There are many books you could also read to help address all of your questions which I would gladly help direct you to, but it is paramount that you first get right with God and His Church, or it will all be to no avail, 'For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul?' (Mt. 16:26)

This will be the last time that I reply to one of your posts, so please hear me out. Perhaps I am foolish for thinking that you will listen, as you have betrayed scant evidence of listening to anyone else here. However, I boldly pray for your enlightenment and salvation, even though I do not know you or exactly what you are going through.

I have replied in earnest to you twice already, strongly suggesting that these questions are best addressed through more direct avenues, especially since your profile suggests that you belong to the body of Christ, His Church, and since you seem to be tormented by many doubts. I did not see a response to either of my previous messages, so I will re-iterate my suggestion once more: You should speak with a priest and completely bare your soul, along with all of these questions and doubts, in confession before Christ. This will help a great deal. I still believe it may also be advisable for you to visit with a monastic Elder with a reputation for great humility and holiness, who can help you with your questions, teach you about prayer and intercede for you in a powerful way before the Lord. Rest assured, all of your interrogations here will remain fruitless outside of an active faith and life in Christ, and will only serve to agitate you further.

The good news is this: All of your questions have been answered! The Lord Himself is the Truth, 'in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge' (Col. 2:3), and the Church is '[...] the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.' (1 Timothy 3:15)

The problem, as far as I can tell, is that you come across here as very impatient and almost defiant in many places. This is part of why you are not getting the answers that you ask for, because others sense this and become frustrated by it. We get what we give. These are signs of an abundance of pride, which you must pray about and learn to struggle against if you are to receive the answers to the questions you seek. Please do not interpret this as self-righteous judgment on my part, for I speak out of brotherly concern, as one who suffers from the same weaknesses. Above all, remember the importance of faith in the asking of these questions and that 'blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.' (Jn 20:29)

There are many books you could also read to help address all of your questions which I would gladly help direct you to, but it is paramount that you first get right with God and His Church, or it will all be to no avail, 'For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul?' (Mt. 16:26)

I am not proud I just respond to people's pride in here , you know what it says I know that I am stupid but when I look around me I get courage! No offence but a lot of people that have replied to my threads have low iqs and have responded disrespectful and rudely. My threads are honest strives for a peaceful and decent conversation and debate. But as you see some just don't have that decency. I don't understand why some need to discuss people and not ideas. To me that only shows how narrow-minded they are. Discussing persons is what small minds and spiritually immature do. If you want to service your neighbour give him what he asks. If your neighbour comes to your door to ask you salt and you give him sugar how did that help him?

Why I address this questions on an internet and on this site is because someone told me that there are really interesting and smart Orthodox Christians in here, even priests and bishops. The reason I bring this to internet discussion is because there is a far more greater amount of resources for a more qualitative discussion in this ground than face to face.. The persons have more time to think, to write down their ideas and correct them and have a lot of exact resources to bring into discussion, not just talking from the mind/remmembrance but actually bringing more accurate and exact arguments, with citations, sources, etc. You said something about consulting a priest/bishop/monk etc, I am working on that also, but have to find the right person.