Subject:Good art from bad people?

Written By:KKayon01/28/07 at 8:52 am

A friend of mine brought up a question; we both agreed that Tom Cruise is a jackass and I am pretty much fed up with his antics. Will I continue to watch his films (assuming he keeps acting)? I hated the recent comment that his church, in the future will think of him as a messiah. I doubt it; the quality of the films has been sinking. Even the "blockbusters". Do I want to pay for a ticket and boost sales or ratings or success?How about Charles Manson? I'm curious. I've heard some of the music. Would I buy it? I don't know. Does he get the money? I think I'm torn, but I know this ethically matters to me.

Have you been challenged by doubt over paying for the art of a bad person?

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:La Rocheon01/28/07 at 10:51 am

I can't see an issue. For instance, it's like saying the work Mengele did in Auschwitz should be ignored. Although what he did is pretty much universally condemned, he did a huge amount of good, do we ignore that?

Faust of Emperor killed a gay men after the gay made a pass at him. Am I going to stop listening to Emperor simply because one of the members is a murder, no!

No point, it's not going to change anything. In that instance.. it's no big deal. I don't care if that guy is dead, I don't know him so I don't give a sh.it. I enjoy listening to Emperor and still will.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Tiaon01/28/07 at 11:57 am

t.s eliot and james joyce were both notoriously self-satisfied, insufferable jerks.

i get the impression i wouldn't be able to spend 10 minutes with roger waters of pink floyd without wanting to climb over the table and strangle him.

roman polanski -- who made good movies but was also evidently some kinda child molester. actually, a lot of the great directors are supposed to have been tough to get on with -- hitchcock and robert altman spring right to mind.

on the more pop angle, every interview or anything i've ever seen with mel gibson (and this is even before he got all infamous!) he really strikes me as an ignorant, silly jerk. but i'm sorry -- he's a good actor. he just is.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:thereshegoeson01/28/07 at 12:22 pm

Let the art be recognized for itself. If i like something i couldn't care less about the authors social behavior.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:KKayon01/28/07 at 2:35 pm

t.s eliot and james joyce were both notoriously self-satisfied, insufferable jerks.

i get the impression i wouldn't be able to spend 10 minutes with roger waters of pink floyd without wanting to climb over the table and strangle him.

roman polanski -- who made good movies but was also evidently some kinda child molester. actually, a lot of the great directors are supposed to have been tough to get on with -- hitchcock and robert altman spring right to mind.

on the more pop angle, every interview or anything i've ever seen with mel gibson (and this is even before he got all infamous!) he really strikes me as an ignorant, silly jerk. but i'm sorry -- he's a good actor. he just is.

Mel is a great example. I have had it with his antics...I don't know if i want any of myt $ to do to him...I know someone that feels personally hurt by MG and will now boycott him. I hate disney-- I have been behind the scenes and i have turned down jobs only bacuase of their shoddy practices and I also hear that they are building a ruthless property empire at the loss of people that cannot afford to protect themselves. roman polanski, someone i really enjoy..people have told me they sont watch him becuase of his child molester issues...I know my mom still holds a grudge against Jane Fonda.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Tiaon01/28/07 at 2:46 pm

sci fi writers harlan ellison and isaac asimov are supposed to both be annoying assgrabbing jerks. and undeniably gifted writers.

a friend of mine is cousins with jeff goldblum and sez he's a real a-ho at family get-togethers. and yet he was so awesome in "the fly" and "invasion of the body snatchers"!

funny, he actually seems like a pretty good sport here, though.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=553SBUhZaYY

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:La Rocheon01/28/07 at 3:26 pm

I know someone that feels personally hurt by MG and will now boycott him. I know my mom still holds a grudge against Jane Fonda.

Let the art be recognized for itself. If i like something i couldn't care less about the authors social behavior.

Right. Who cares what they do.

For instance, I dislike David Cameron, the leader of the British Conservative party, but I still cast my vote for the Conservative Party because he isn't the whole party. Same with say an actor you dislike. I dislike Leonardo di Caprio because I think he's a smug, self-serving little prick.. but if he was ever in a good movie, I wouldn't have a problem with going and seeing it.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:yoidyon02/02/07 at 5:42 pm

The minute we're born, we consume. We might've eaten at a restaurant owned by a guy who beats his wife. We might've gone to a school run by a principal who cheated on his taxes and sold his firstborn to a sex slavery ring. We don't know where everything consumed really comes from. Who really wants to know how their hamburger came together? So it is with art. Do I have any regrets buying Never Mind The Bullocks, Here's The Sex Pistols knowing that Sid Vicious killed Nancy Spungen? No. On the other hand, already knowing what a homicidal ignoramus opportunist OJ is, I'm definitely not going to buy any book he comes out with, he's too much of an obvious sadist. And why aren't the members of the motion picture academy flogging themselves with guilt after having awarded a posthumous prize to Nazi documentarian Leni Reifenstahl? Because art can transcend everything, including the artist.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Tiaon02/02/07 at 6:24 pm

The minute we're born, we consume. We might've eaten at a restaurant owned by a guy who beats his wife. We might've gone to a school run by a principal who cheated on his taxes and sold his firstborn to a sex slavery ring. We don't know where everything consumed really comes from. Who really wants to know how their hamburger came together? So it is with art. Do I have any regrets buying Never Mind The Bullocks, Here's The Sex Pistols knowing that Sid Vicious killed Nancy Spungen? No. On the other hand, already knowing what a homicidal ignoramus opportunist OJ is, I'm definitely not going to buy any book he comes out with, he's too much of an obvious sadist. And why aren't the members of the motion picture academy flogging themselves with guilt after having awarded a posthumous prize to Nazi documentarian Leni Reifenstahl? Because art can transcend everything, including the artist.hell yes! i'm likin' the new guy!

this is a notable quotable, dude. i read an article from, gawd, who was it, the ex-republican speaker of the house (how quickly we forget! particularly if we're drunks :-despite his being a sick necrophile, or edgar allan poe wasn't a genius []even though he was a mincing freak, or lewis carroll and his little girl thing, or sid vicious being a callous murderer, or jimmy page was an amazing guitar player even though he spanked prostitutes with fish, or whatever... the list goes on and on... but that they were great artists BECAUSE they were twisted maniacs. it's sorta this culture's dirty secret.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:yoidyon02/02/07 at 6:46 pm

hell yes! i'm likin' the new guy!

this is a notable quotable, dude. i read an article from, gawd, who was it, the ex-republican speaker of the house (how quickly we forget! particularly if we're drunks :-despite his being a sick necrophile, or edgar allan poe wasn't a genius []even though he was a mincing freak, or lewis carroll and his little girl thing, or sid vicious being a callous murderer, or jimmy page was an amazing guitar player even though he spanked prostitutes with fish, or whatever... the list goes on and on... but that they were great artists BECAUSE they were twisted maniacs. it's sorta this culture's dirty secret.

Glad to be here, Tia! Appreciate your feedback!

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Apricoton02/02/07 at 7:02 pm

I've heard Manson's music is good, but I don't know.

Generally, I don't object to people's art based on their acts.. for example, the musicians Voltaire and Morrissey are apparently unbearable douchebags (so I've heard and read), but I'll support them anyway.. if a serial killer creating a series of interesting recordings, I'd listen to them.. if anything, the very fact they did something extraordinarily bad has some allure.. it's not like I'm advocating their behavior by purchasing their work.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:ADH13on02/03/07 at 11:46 am

I think it depends on what their acts were.. if they are self-centered, egotistical or have opposite views on politics than I do, yes I will still watch/listen.

If they were maiming animals, killing innocent people, molesting kids (and being found guilty - I wouldn't buy an MJ album, but will listen to songs from Thriller and earlier that I downloaded for free), etc then I probably wouldn't....

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:witchainon02/06/07 at 4:38 am

The greatest art that this planet has ever seen has come from twisted human minds.There have been a lot of names mentioned already... I will say that I don't consider Gibson's work art, with the exception of The Passion. Tom Cruise is a jackass- He's not "bad".Being egotistical does not qualify as "bad", either.

Manson is a good example. How about Van Gogh? He cut off his own ear, for christ's sake!Hemmingway? That is some of the best writing ever put to paper.Albrecht Duerer, Dali, etc.

One also has to wonder about the actors who play the most vile characters imaginable.(And do so convincingly) Where does this darkness come from?Do we all possess it?

Great topic!

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:skittleskingon02/11/07 at 8:24 am

A friend of mine brought up a question; we both agreed that Tom Cruise is a jackass and I am pretty much fed up with his antics. Will I continue to watch his films (assuming he keeps acting)? I hated the recent comment that his church, in the future will think of him as a messiah. I doubt it; the quality of the films has been sinking. Even the "blockbusters". Do I want to pay for a ticket and boost sales or ratings or success?How about Charles Manson? I'm curious. I've heard some of the music. Would I buy it? I don't know. Does he get the money? I think I'm torn, but I know this ethically matters to me.

Have you been challenged by doubt over paying for the art of a bad person? Michael Jackson and his Best Of work . . . although never convicted and I am a strong believer that it shouldn't be considered anymore since he wasn't. . .but when the trial was going on and that came up I had trouble buying it. In general no, I'll buy things for their quality regardless of what I think of it's producers unless I am completely disgusted by someone or a company.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Ashkicksasson02/15/07 at 2:02 pm

I think I'm the only one here who has a problem separating the artist from the art. I don't care for Tom Cruise, in fact, I never have. I don't care what character he's playing, I don't want to go and watch him do anything for two hours. Same with Mel Gibson. And never in a million years could I buy a Charles Manson record. (For the record, it is illegal for a criminal to profit from his or her crimes, and I'm going to assume that includes notoriety from such crimes, so it's doubtful he'd getting any money - for me it's the principle.) And as for what Mengele did, I, in fact, will disregard it. Sure, he made advances, advances that could have been made without torture and murder. Yes, it might have taken a bit longer for those advances to come to fruition, but I can live with that if it means saving innocent lives. I wonder Davey, had your grandmother or grandfather been one of his victims, could you still say "yeah, but look at all the good he did. He did a lot of good." Please. I can't look at these people and not see them. Not see everything that they are, whether it be good or bad. Unfortunately, the bad usually outweighs the good.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:KKayon02/15/07 at 5:22 pm

The greatest art that this planet has ever seen has come from twisted human minds.There have been a lot of names mentioned already... I will say that I don't consider Gibson's work art, with the exception of The Passion. Tom Cruise is a jackass- He's not "bad".Being egotistical does not qualify as "bad", either.

Manson is a good example. How about Van Gogh? He cut off his own ear, for christ's sake!Hemmingway? That is some of the best writing ever put to paper.Albrecht Duerer, Dali, etc.

One also has to wonder about the actors who play the most vile characters imaginable.(And do so convincingly) Where does this darkness come from?Do we all possess it?

Great topic!

we alll get ffascinated by the twisted minds, too.I love to read about serial killers...but if one wrote a book, and made serious $ off it, would I pay?I'm really undecided.

I can't actively boycott anything...too lazy. but $ is another matter...cuz people can do lots of harm when they get their hands om some cash.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Badfinger-fanon02/17/07 at 2:53 am

what if a serial killer has used his victims blood to paint with? I may have a problem gettting past that and appreciating and interpreting the work :-\\

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Davesteron02/17/07 at 3:00 am

roman polanski -- who made good movies but was also evidently some kinda child molester. actually, a lot of the great directors are supposed to have been tough to get on with -- hitchcock and robert altman spring right to mind.

Roman Polanski...

Without looking it up, he was the center of controvery some time ago...

Something about him being placed under arrest if he ever set foot in the U.S. again...

What's this all about, or am I thinking of someone else..?

By the way, I love "Knife in the Water" groove ;) on...

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Sister Morphineon02/17/07 at 3:03 am

No, you're right. It's why he couldn't accept his Best Director Oscar for The Pianist.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Badfinger-fanon02/17/07 at 3:09 am

Roman Polanski...

Without looking it up, he was the center of controvery some time ago...

Something about him being placed under arrest if he ever set foot in the U.S. again...

What's this all about, or am I thinking of someone else..?

By the way, I love "Knife in the Water" groove ;) on...that's probably correct about Polanski for sleeping with the young ladies i believe. the only film of his I watched and recommended was *Tess* starring the very sexy Nastassja Kinski as Tess

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Davesteron02/17/07 at 3:20 am

No, you're right. It's why he couldn't accept his Best Director Oscar for The Pianist.

On a charge like that you'd figure he'd have been tracked down by Interpol and arrested by now...

France does need another heaping helping of Freedom Fries...

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Badfinger-fanon02/17/07 at 3:44 am

On a charge like that you'd figure he'd have been tracked down by Interpol and arrested by now...

France does need another heaping helping of Freedom Fries...may not be illegal in some of these countries :o

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Trimac20on02/17/07 at 3:46 am

No, I don't boycott the work of artists - musicians, actors.etc due to a fault in their personal character, although if by supporting them it profits them to continue in their evil ways, than that is another matter.

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Davesteron02/17/07 at 3:48 am

may not be illegal in some of these countries :o

Yeah. Maybe France, I think that's where he resides, would refuse to extradite...

Better good art from bad people than bad art from good people..?

Yeah...

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Trimac20on02/17/07 at 3:51 am

Who are we to judge (in most cases) whether a celebrity is 'good' or 'bad' anyway?

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Davesteron02/17/07 at 3:54 am

Who are we to judge (in most cases) whether a celebrity is 'good' or 'bad' anyway?

Sure. "Good - Bad" can be subjective...

The question could be phrased: "Good art from criminals..?"

This just hit me...

Who are we to judge whether a work of art is "good" or "bad"..? Subjective, as well...

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Tiaon02/17/07 at 6:35 am

go ;)

Subject:Re: Good art from bad people?

Written By:Tiaon02/17/07 at 6:37 am

On a charge like that you'd figure he'd have been tracked down by Interpol and arrested by now...

France does need another heaping helping of Freedom Fries...i think his girlies might be too young for america, but young enough for europe?