This thread is for nerds only. If you are a nerd or it is lawful to be one in your community, you may proceed to enter this thread.

We are going to pit Darth Vader (the bi-polar 22 year old Sith Lord before his mishap on Mustafar) against Kal-El, the Last Son of Krypton as he is on earth where he'll have all his powers.

We'll do this by an itemized inventory of abilities, but feel free to join in. This is a discussion.

We'll start with speed: Superman is faster. No question about it. We've seen the Jedi hit super-speed roughly once - when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan outran the destroyer droids' blasts on the Trade Federation ship in TPM. I'm not sure the Jedi can sustain that speed, or it's that easy to access. Obi-Wan couldn't use it to get to Qui-Gon to save him from Darth Maul, it would seem. Super-speed never seems to fail Kal-El.

Next is flight - Superman can defy gravity and fly without a starfighter. Jedi can levitate a limited bit, or slow a fall. It's conceiveable that Mace Windu even survived Darth Sidious, but it's doubtful. Superman would have no problem with that. He also would never need a fighter / jet etc. unless he needed to carry a lot of passengers comfortably.

How about weapon resistant? A lightsaber might be able to cut Superman. What do you think? If it can't, would it just bounce off him? Superman is not made of cortosis, so the saber wouldn't short out. If it couldn't penetrate him - it would have to bounce off him. As to bullets and probably lasers, they wouldn't affect Superman. A Jedi or Sith could also deflect them - most easily with his lightsaber, but we've seen them use the Force that way and defllect them by hand. (Vader might have been able to do that with an artificial hand in ESB, but Obi-Wan did it in the Clone Wars cartoon with no such protection. That is EU though.) A Sith could not get shot in the eye and have no injury unlike Superman.

The Force. If Force-lightning is like witchcraft or something to Superman, he might go down under a Sith Lord's barrage. Maybe. I don't think a Sith could Force choke him. Afterall, we're talking about a guy who flys into outerspace without oxygen. I don't know how he does that, but it would seem that using the Force to restrict his windpipe would have no effect.

Heat vision - this might be very effective against Sith. In Superman movies, we see the heat rays coming out of his eyes as special effect references for the viewing audience. In the real Superman's presence, you'd see nothing. If you can't see it and it's coming so fast, maybe with the Force you could deflect it with your lightsaber, but I think part of that would have to depend on luck.

Freeze breath - there's no Jedi or Sith defense against this that I can think of.

Levitation / telekinesis - General Zod was shown to have this ability, but Kal-El was not that I recall. The Jedi seem to be quicker and better at it in any event. Of course if you were Kryptonian with superspeed, you wouldn't really need telekinesis, would you?

I think this covers most of the basics. I'll let others contribute. But I think Superman wins here. The Darths are impressive, but they should not underestimate Kryptonians.

Oh, the Force does give them better perceptions about the future however. I forgot about that: visions.

So what do you think?

Bel-Cam Jos

05-13-2007, 09:40 AM

Would you allow geeks? If not, then disregard my response below...

I think a Jedi/Sith Force "coccoon" or "bubble" could offset any heat or freeze attacks.

I would think he could utilize Jocasta Nu and the expansive Jedi Archives to find Supe's weakness, hop in a hyperspace-ready craft complete with sensors that detect specific materials, find him some floating Kryptonite 'round there, hang that puppy on a necklace, hold the Man of Steel in a Force grip and just stand there nearby. Wah lah! Dead Superman in a few hours.

2-1B

05-13-2007, 10:26 AM

of course he could.

Droid

05-13-2007, 10:55 AM

If the Force qualifies as magic, then yes, Anakin or just about any Force user could defeat Superman since magic is one of Superman's weaknesses.

We also would have to assume that the Jedi and Superman exist in the same time frame, because Star Wars happened a long time ago and Superman "lives" in the present day.

Then we have the problem of a galaxy far, far away. Of course, it would depend on what color the sun was. If they were fighting in a red sun universe Kal-El would get it handed to him.

If the Force just makes a Jedi strong, but isn't magic, and we are in a universe with a yellow sun, then Superman would clean the entire Council's clock, including Yoda because they couldn't touch him.

A lightsaber wouldn't harm him at all. He can go days without oxygen even assuming they could use the Force to cut off his oxygen. The lightning wouldn't do a thing to him and I don't think they could levitate him against his will. Anything they'd throw at him would bounce off.

If battle droids and Jango Fett can kill Jedi then Superman would wipe them up.

General_Grievous

05-13-2007, 12:03 PM

Anakin could remove the crystal from his lightsaber and reinsert a kryptonite crystal, making a kryptonite blade. Game, set, match.

maatu

05-13-2007, 03:10 PM

superman would kick anakins butt...

figrin bran

05-13-2007, 04:14 PM

of all the ridiculous topic ideas! :p

you didn't specify at what age Kal-El would be but the overly confident 22 yr old Anakin would get owned

Kidhuman

05-13-2007, 05:26 PM

I agree with GG here about the Kryptonite blade. The force user would own Superman here. He wouldnt be able to do a damn thing against a force choke. Besides, one hack with a lightsabre and Supes is out for the count.

El Chuxter

05-13-2007, 05:51 PM

Depends. It's like Batman vs Superman*: it's totally dependent upon the circumstances. Superman could easily blindside Vader and kill him in one strike. But, if he didn't do it instantly, or Vader's abilities alerted him in time, it would be a long, drawn-out battle, possibly on par with his first fight with Doomsday.

*--In case you're wondering, Batman vs Superman would be 100&#37; dependent upon whether Superman had the advantage of surprise. If he does, Batman loses hands-down. If he doesn't, Batman can get the piece of kryptonite he's safeguarding in case Supes ever gets out of control.

General_Grievous

05-13-2007, 06:37 PM

Well, if we're bringing Batman vs. Superman into this, here's the way I see it:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3271/ug00dd9eznncjk0.gif

P.S. I didn't make the gif.

figrin bran

05-13-2007, 09:19 PM

2 words that Tycho already mentioned: heat vision!

Usually, he is very wary of using it but if push came to shove, Supes could melt Anakin's lightsaber handle, the crystal and emitter and burn him severely, if not worse.

and if Anakin is allowed to scan the galaxies for kryptonite, Supes should be able to make a lead shielded suit for himself.

figrin bran

05-14-2007, 01:50 AM

i think that in some strange Tychonian logic, this is somehow related to some of the other topics that he's started. like the one on collecting.

anyhow, this really isn't any different than sports fans debating who would win if Nolan Ryan were to face Albert Pujols or if Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain went one on one. and yet, the sports debates have a tendency to be viewed as not so nerd prone.

sith_killer_99

05-14-2007, 02:05 AM

anyhow, this really isn't any different than sports fans debating who would win if Nolan Ryan were to face Albert Pujols or if Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain went one on one. and yet, the sports debates have a tendency to be viewed as not so nerd prone.

Fantasy Football = D&D for jocks!

BTW, Superman wins 95% of the time. The other 5% is "Kryptonite" lightsabers and "Red Suns". In a straight up fight, Superman wins. He's faster, stronger and much more powerful.

One of the big geek arguments about Superman is that he is too powerful!:yes:

figrin bran

05-14-2007, 02:12 AM

alright!!!! i'm the reigning SSG Jock D&D Champion!

JetsAndHeels

05-14-2007, 07:03 AM

This is a crazy topic Tycho.

The lava on Mustafar totally f'ed Anakin up for the rest of his life.

Heat vision from Supes would completely destroy him.

El Chuxter

05-14-2007, 08:32 AM

But a kryptonite blade would not necessarily emit the radiation in its blade.

Qui-Long Gone

05-14-2007, 08:58 AM

Superman 1 Anakin 0

Not even close...
Not even with a Krypto light saber...
Not in a million years...
Anakin wouldn't have a chance...no Jedi would

*Whenever Superman looses any fight it's only because the writers are too lazy to think of a new way for him to win....

His seeing-things-before-they-happen is on a level Batman doesn't come close to, so even with a lightsaber and all his Ninja skills, the Dark Knight is no match for a Sith Lord or a Jedi Knight.

Some of their gear is similar. Jedi don't call their aquabreathers "bat masks" nor their monofilament climbing wires, bat ropes, but they always could should they develop a psychotic fixation on bats.

Spider-Man has some of that future-vision (he can move faster than things around him are happening), but he can't defend against the Force choke or Force lightning. A lightsaber would make short work of a spider-web.

There is no other superhero besides Superman that could withstand a Jedi. (Perhaps Harry Potter? LOL Oh - and Harry would probably be able to defeat Superman as well.)

This came up in another thread: the Transformers wouldn't stand a chance against a Jedi or Sith, btw.

I think Superman is at the top of the food chain, unless Harry Potter beats him.

Qui-Long Gone

05-14-2007, 09:40 AM

Potter does have the magic advantage over Superman, conceeded...but he better have a really quick spell...I mean faster than a speeding bullet spell or that lightning bolt will be his least violent scar....

I think you should give Bats a little more credit....if Jango could take out a few Jedi with a couple of guns, trust me, the Dark Knight could stand his ground...he'd be much like a bounty hunter in SW universe, except not as stupid. Jedi are much more vulnerable without their sabers so in a hand to hand match, even with the force, Bats is on level fighting ground. Plus Bats fights dirty. Jedi aren't entirely indestructable, and some have a tendency to mentally crack, a flaw Batman has mastered and could use against them....

***BTW....who does the force choke work on? I mean only Vader used it (well Windu if you count the second season animated Clone Wars....or is there someone else too, novels, etc.?), but could Vader only use it on certain people (like Jedi mind tricks are only good on the weak minded)?

El Chuxter

05-14-2007, 10:16 AM

There is no other superhero besides Superman that could withstand a Jedi.

Like QLG is saying, Bats could definitely hold his own against Jedi/Sith.

Any of the Flashes - Barry Allen, Jay Garrick, Wally West could take them out too as their super speed is greater than Superman's. Any Green Lantern should hold their own as well (ha, looks like Chux beat me to this) and it doesn't even have to be Hal Jordan. and as Chux mentioned again, all Shazam needs to do is call down lightning and then game, set, and match to him.

Also anyone who is capable of phasing like Kitty Pryde or the Martian Manhunter should be impervious to any jedi/sith attacks

and are you sure no Transformers would stand a chance? what could a force user possibly do to them? to lift them up and throw them against walls requires concentration that not every force user is capable of. a lightsaber wouldn't do that much damage against them either. so you cut off a piece of Megatron, big deal. if a bunch of DC 15 armed clones could overwhelm jedi, certainly Transformers with greater firepower than that could make short work of them as well. Also there are some TF's like Tigerhawk from Beast Wars who are capable of elemental powers.

Luuuuuuke

05-14-2007, 10:54 AM

All Superman would have to do is stalk Anakin and as soon as Anakin's guard was down--because he was busy whining or something--Superman would fly at supersonic speeds and punch a hole into Anakin, turning him into a Jedi donut. He's the Man of Steel! Faster than a speeding bullet. Stronger than a locomotive.

darthvyn

05-14-2007, 10:58 AM

Spider-Man has some of that future-vision (he can move faster than things around him are happening), but he can't defend against the Force choke or Force lightning. A lightsaber would make short work of a spider-web.

okay, time to let my geek flag fly.

he doesn't only move faster than things around him are happening. it's a sense of danger that not only warns him, but tells him what to do on an instinctual level. a sith could never tag him with force lightning, because he can always leap out of the way. sure, the lightning is traveling at the speed of light, but it's created with the speed of thought. as soon as that thought is cast, it sets off the spider-sense.

the force choke is another matter. assuming it works on anyone, his spider-sense wouldn't be of any use - there's nothing to jump out of the way of.

if it's a simple matter of making the person believe they are choking, then spidey has something else on his side: science. by thinking through it and realizing that he's not really choking, he could overcome the effects. if it's physical harm to the larynx/windpipe, then he has something else on his side: superhuman endurance and strength. this would give him more time than the average human would have to come up with a solution to either blindside and/or otherwise distract vaderkin to make him and get out of the attack. think of spidey 2 in the bank - when ock had him by either side of the head and was pressing on his skull. his endurance gave him the time to tag those desks with webbing, pulling them both toward ock, thus distracting him long enough to drop spidey.

also using science, spidey would probably be able to create a web fluid that would take the lightsaber out of the equation (it's got precedent, seriously... the guy makes new concoctions of web fluid like crazy...) by either making a shield that blocks them (i'm almost positive that they've decided on some substance in the SW universe that they can't cut through...) or (more likely) a way of causing interference/feedback in the lightsaber hilt, with a modified spider-tracer or some other gadget quickly whipped together, that either renders it useless (destroyed or temporarily incapacitated), or possibly even injures the user.

while not the psychological combatant that batman is, he could also let loose with a barrage of quips/taunts/witty banter that would cause vaderkin to become sloppy with rage (obviously not very hard to do...), letting spidey take advantage of the situation.

other than and sticking to walls/swinging from webs and the more aggressive force powers, a jedi/sith and spidey are pretty evenly matched - agility, endurance and skill are all pretty even. the aggressive force powers are a jedi/sith advantage, and spidey's intellect is his.

El Chuxter

05-14-2007, 02:34 PM

A Sith could do a mind trick on Spidey and screw up his spider-sense.

And I missed the bit about Transformers earlier. One Jedi/Sith, even Vader, could only beat the weaker Transformers, eg, Bumblebee, Rumble, Cosmos. More powerful Transformers, like Starscream, Jazz, etc, could hold their own; it could go either way. Against the upper echelons in terms of power--any Prime or any Unicron-created Decepticon--Vader would be toast.

Droid

05-14-2007, 03:18 PM

I don't see why a Jedi or Sith could not just start to crush the Transformers using the Force.

The Force User could cause the Transformers' circuits to short out, cause them to misfire their weapons, cause them to attack themselves, cause them to just keep transforming or start them transforming and leave them stuck in between modes.

Like when Obi-wan used the Force to manipulate the mechanics of Grievous in the Episode III novel.

If you think about it, Vader could have just used the Force to send Luke's X-wing into the trench wall.

darthvyn

05-14-2007, 03:50 PM

A Sith could do a mind trick on Spidey and screw up his spider-sense.

true, something i hadn't considered. still, he'd be hard to hit with the lightning if he just kept jumping around until he could figure out some kind of way to counter the spider-sense dampening. or he could just fight through it - it's happened before.

Qui-Long Gone

05-14-2007, 04:57 PM

true, something i hadn't considered. still, he'd be hard to hit with the lightning if he just kept jumping around until he could figure out some kind of way to counter the spider-sense dampening. or he could just fight through it - it's happened before.

No, mind tricks only work on the weak minded....Spidy is no dummy....I agree he'd be too quick for lightning....

LTBasker

05-14-2007, 05:56 PM

One would of course have to assume that pre-Darth Vader Anakin could kill anything worthwhile. We only saw him ambush Tusken Raiders and slaughter Jedi children (while the clones handled everything else). Granted, we did see him take down Dooku but that was likely more Palpatine inhibiting Dooku from doing much.

Even Aquaman could take down Anakin. :p

JediTricks

05-14-2007, 06:53 PM

Superman easily has the edge with a larger variety of powers at his disposal to take out Vader, the only question is whether he'll use them or stand there and let Vader use the Force on him. Supes often will just kinda stand there and take abuse rather than unleash his full fury because of his boy scout nature, Vader meanwhile (real Vader, not the manchild) wouldn't hesitate to take out that sort of enemy once he perceived the true threat level.

I don't believe for a second that a lightsaber could harm Supes, the sabers are not terribly effective against powerfully-skinned objects, even Qui-Gon's attack on the Trade Fed battleship door required slow melting before he could cut through the plating. Plus, Supes can heal from any flesh wounds he gets pretty fast.

Supes is already proven to be vulnerable to magic, so if the Force is categorized as magic in the DC universe, then Supes would be in serious trouble without someone like Dr Fate covering his back in this department. But I'm not sure the philosophies behind DCU magic and the Force are similar enough to call the Force "magic". Even without the "magic" part though, the Force is pretty damn powerful in the hands of a Sith Lord like Vader, he could reach into Supes' body via the Force and attack his weaker biological functions - carotid artery, blood vessels in the brain, heart - and make attacks on those, even tearing Supes apart from the inside (granted, more power will be required to damage Supes internal organs than a normal human, but Vader Force-chokes with ease so I think he's got enough to pull it off). I don't think Force-lightning will do jack to Supes, he's absorbed plenty of electricity in the past without phasing him.

Meanwhile, if Superman so chose, he could ramp it up to 10 and use super-speed to dodge Vader's attacks, super-strength to punch or rip Vader apart, throw Vader into a sun, or use heat-vision to melt Vader's head. A combination of powers would be quickly devastating to Vader: a whirlwind of pain. I don't think cold breath will affect Vader though, that power is pretty lame and I suspect the Force can deflect it.

Oh, and the "kryptonite lightsaber" thing is so out there even for you guys,
we have no idea if any ol' crystal will power a saber, much less that the rays it forms will act the same as kryptonite. But most importantly I think, all Supes has to do is stay out of the dang thing's way, he's got super-speed and super-agility and super-reflexes, with all his powers he could easily dodge that thing.

I think Spidey could take Vader if he can keep moving out of the Force-choke's grasp, I think it'd be a pretty wild battle since they probably have matched foresight and responses. Spidey has creativity and strength on his side, while Vader has the lightsaber and the Force going for him.

Batman would avoid the whole thing altogether until he came up with a solid way to counter a Jedi, even if it meant learning the ways of the Force himself.

I think The Flash would get his arse handed to him unless he directly taps into the Speed Force to use some ugly DC cheats. I'm picturing Vader just throwing a Force-push in all directions at once, knocking The Flash on his back, then taking care of business. Or even better, foresight lets him swing the saber around him just at the right time. If The Flash can outlive those, he still has to counter any of Vader's Force moves before doing... what exactly would he do?

Transformers would squash Vader like a bug, Optimus, Megs, Starscream, any of the big boys would bring a blaster to bear and it'd be all over, a lightsaber can't deflect a 10-foot-tall blaster bolt, the beam would envelope Vader's whole body. And even if Vader's reflexes get him out of the way of that first blast, he can't Force-choke, he's gonna have a tough time lifting a giant robot, and his saber is going to take a long time to cut into the limbs, not to mention the whole body. Transformers have a lot more energy, they can just outlast Vader's initial barrage and then step on him when his reflexes dull, or shoot him.

A Sith could do a mind trick on Spidey and screw up his spider-sense.That only works on the weak-minded, which Spidey is not.

I don't see why a Jedi or Sith could not just start to crush the Transformers using the Force.He'd have to know WHERE to crush just right to do ANY damage, and while he's doing that, he'll get stepped on.

The Force User could cause the Transformers' circuits to short out, cause them to misfire their weapons, cause them to attack themselves, cause them to just keep transforming or start them transforming and leave them stuck in between modes.

Like when Obi-wan used the Force to manipulate the mechanics of Grievous in the Episode III novel. Yeah, and that worked so well that Obi-Wan then got tossed off a ledge and had to shoot Grievous to win. :p

If you think about it, Vader could have just used the Force to send Luke's X-wing into the trench wall.Whoa whoa whoa, talk about overestimating the powers of the Force, we've never seen anything approaching that level of competency, it takes all Yoda's powers to lift a stationary X-wing and he's a Jedi master! Dooku has to concentrate to bring down a few stationary columns and he's a Sith.

Even Aquaman could take down Anakin. :pOUCH!!! :D

Tycho

05-14-2007, 07:04 PM

If you think about it, Vader could have just used the Force to send Luke's X-wing into the trench wall.

I think he didn't have that ability, especially when concerned with a speeding object.

Next, his training or life experiences were even stronger as a pilot than a Force-manipulator. It was a pattern in his thinking to handle a starfighter battle within the realm of capabilities of his own starfighter.

If we were to assign blame for the destruction of the first Death Star, Vader's failure to cut down Luke's squadron is even more amplified would he have been capable of summoning the Force to do that.

The record shows he wasn't fast enough as a pilot to take care of the problem before Han Solo shot Vader off Luke's back. It is an interesting OT topic I don't believe I've discussed before (in 30 years!) Whoa. Geek-gasm!

El Chuxter

05-14-2007, 07:09 PM

I didn't say that a Sith could totally sway Spidey's mind. But it could throw off his spider sense.

Qui-Long Gone

05-14-2007, 07:13 PM

I doubt a Sith could throw off Spidy's sense, just because it's so mutant (as much spider as man)....although I could see that a Sith could be just as cloaked and stealthy as both Spiderman and Batman, after all, even that chump Windu had no clue what the Sith were up to according to TPM.

figrin bran

05-14-2007, 10:26 PM

Even Aquaman could take down Anakin. :p

or in Transformer terms, even Rodimus could take down Anakin :p

Droid

05-15-2007, 10:09 AM

Transformers would squash Vader like a bug, Optimus, Megs, Starscream, any of the big boys would bring a blaster to bear and it'd be all over, a lightsaber can't deflect a 10-foot-tall blaster bolt, the beam would envelope Vader's whole body. And even if Vader's reflexes get him out of the way of that first blast, he can't Force-choke, he's gonna have a tough time lifting a giant robot, and his saber is going to take a long time to cut into the limbs, not to mention the whole body. Transformers have a lot more energy, they can just outlast Vader's initial barrage and then step on him when his reflexes dull, or shoot him.

Whoa whoa whoa, talk about overestimating the powers of the Force, we've never seen anything approaching that level of competency, it takes all Yoda's powers to lift a stationary X-wing and he's a Jedi master! Dooku has to concentrate to bring down a few stationary columns and he's a Sith.

So do you think Vader is over estimating the power of the Force when he says the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the Power of the Force? Or is it that the Force's power is limitless, but the power an individual Force user is able to harness and use is limited, and much less than the Death Star or a Transformer?

If you think the Transformers would whoop Vader and Superman would ultimately beat Vader, do you agree with my thought the Superman could tear each and every Transformer apart without any trouble at all?

I don't know that the ability to cloud someone's intuition is limited to the weak minded. Couldn't a Force user cloud Spidey's spidey sense in the same way that Palpatine could cloud what even Yoda could sense? Maybe Spidey would still know he was in danger, but could he actually read what the Force User was going to do if the Force User used the Force to hide what his or her attack was going to be?

Would a Force user know that Spidey had spider sense so that an attempt would be made to cloud it?

More interestingly though, do you believe when Force users fight they have to use part of their energy to stop his or her opponent from being able to sense what he or she will do next? Does a Force user have to stop his or her opponent from using his or her own body against him? Vader to Luke: Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself.

El Chuxter

05-15-2007, 11:00 AM

If you think the Transformers would whoop Vader and Superman would ultimately beat Vader, do you agree with my thought the Superman could tear each and every Transformer apart without any trouble at all?

We saw what he did against the earth's gravity in the first film....even Unicron would be screwed....

JON9000

05-15-2007, 01:02 PM

Vern: You think Mighty Mouse could beat up Superman?
Teddy: What are you, cracked?
Vern: No, I saw him on TV the other day, he was holding five elephants in one hand.
Teddy: Boy, you don't know nothing. Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Superman's a real guy. There's no way a cartoon could beat up a real guy.
Vern: I guess you're right. It'd be a good fight though.

Droid

05-15-2007, 01:21 PM

Superman would beat Mighty Mouse.

El Chuxter

05-15-2007, 01:33 PM

No, Mighty Mouse would beat Superman.

And you're all forgetting that any Prime (Prima, Prime Nova, Sentinel Prime, Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime), any other Matrix-holder (Deathbringer, Thunderwing), Primus, Unicron, and any Decepticon of Unicron's creation (Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps) have magical powers, to which Superman is vulnerable.

Tycho

05-15-2007, 02:21 PM

What is Megatron's magical power? To tolerate Starscream? :D

Droid

05-15-2007, 02:36 PM

No, Mighty Mouse would beat Superman.

And you're all forgetting that any Prime (Prima, Prime Nova, Sentinel Prime, Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime), any other Matrix-holder (Deathbringer, Thunderwing), Primus, Unicron, and any Decepticon of Unicron's creation (Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps) have magical powers, to which Superman is vulnerable.

I don't know if I would call the Matrix magic so much as technology that is so advanced we don't understand it. Or maybe it would be better classified as bad writing.

Also, I don't know if a fight with a Kryptonian would qualify as the darkest hour such that the Matrix would open.

And I don't think that Unicron has much power beyond reforming robots into different robots much in the way the Transformers can be given different alt. modes anyway.

Superman would tear the Transformers up!

Now Batman would be destroyed by any of the large Transformers unless he went into hiding and launched some guerilla warfare campaign against them. Maybe he could hit them with a nuclear missle from a remote location or something.

Anyone know what the effect of a nuke on a Transformer would be? I know G.I. Joe's standard vehicles blew up Bumblebee in a really dumb comic book series.

Storm Shadow or Snake Eyes versus Batman? I think it would be a very even fight.

El Chuxter

05-15-2007, 03:17 PM

Ah, but you're considering only the film version of the Matrix.

I think Snake Eyes and Batman would be too evenly matched, and too smart to fight. It would be like Cap vs Batman from the JLA/Avengers crossover, where they size each other up, then agree they're obviously only going to waste time by fighting.

Qui-Long Gone

05-15-2007, 11:18 PM

Ah, but you're considering only the film version of the Matrix.

I think Snake Eyes and Batman would be too evenly matched, and too smart to fight. It would be like Cap vs Batman from the JLA/Avengers crossover, where they size each other up, then agree they're obviously only going to waste time by fighting.

But they wouldn't be wasting our time.....

Now what about Snake Eyes or Stormshadow vs a Jedi?

figrin bran

05-16-2007, 12:18 AM

But they wouldn't be wasting our time.....

Now what about Snake Eyes or Stormshadow vs a Jedi?

Would Snake Eyes/Storm Shadow get a lightsaber? if not, sure they would be able to elude all attacks but i'm afraid the Jedi would just slice apart all their weaponry and they'd be forced to retreat.

However, if they do get lightsabers, i actually think they'd overwhelm most Jedi. My reasoning for that lies in the fact that Jedi have never faced opponents that are their equal or superior in swordsmanship.

Droid

05-16-2007, 09:37 AM

I think the Jedi would clean the floor with Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow.

El Chuxter

05-16-2007, 10:40 AM

Ah, but could a Jedi defeat Chuck Norris?

CaptainSolo1138

05-16-2007, 11:35 AM

They'd settle on a big plate of nachos to share.

El Chuxter

05-16-2007, 12:00 PM

I can see it now:

"My name's Obi-Wan."

"My name's Chuck Norris."

"Hi, Chuck. Do you like nachos?"

"Yes."

"Do you like football?"

"Yes."

"Perhaps you can come to my Jedi Temple later, and we can watch some football, and have some nachos and beer."

Qui-Long Gone

05-16-2007, 02:17 PM

The power to destory a planet is insignificant next to the power of a Chuck Norris kick...

El Chuxter

05-16-2007, 02:30 PM

A Jedi could take any normal person. Except for Chuck Norris, Joan Jett, or Kris Kristofferson. They'd mop the floor with Jedi innards.

Qui-Long Gone

05-16-2007, 02:33 PM

Joan Jett

She would have been a good choice for cloning....was she Boba's mom?

El Chuxter

05-16-2007, 02:37 PM

Interesting that you ask. I found this on a site full of crazy Joan Jett factoids (which I can't link to here because of the language and such):

She was the inspiration for Boba Fett, hence the rhyming last name. When he was cool, she was happy, but since the prequels have made him not cool she's showed up at Lucas' door every day for the past three years and kicked his ***. And she hasn't ****ed him. Not even once.

JediTricks

05-16-2007, 07:06 PM

I didn't say that a Sith could totally sway Spidey's mind. But it could throw off his spider sense.I don't buy that for a second, it's not even a conscious power on Spidey's part and even he doesn't know how it works, it just "is". The only things I can think of that sway Spidey's spider-sense are clones because they're just more "him", and Venom, and that's because it used to be psychically a part of him; Green Goblin once came up with a gas, but that wore off.

So do you think Vader is over estimating the power of the Force when he says the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the Power of the Force? Or is it that the Force's power is limitless, but the power an individual Force user is able to harness and use is limited, and much less than the Death Star or a Transformer?Mainly the latter, but I think t's also a philosophical statement about how it can be used, for example: Palpatine's mastery of the Force to manipulate the people was powerful enough to control the destinies of billions.

If you think the Transformers would whoop Vader and Superman would ultimately beat Vader, do you agree with my thought the Superman could tear each and every Transformer apart without any trouble at all?Probably not Unicron, and some of the more battle-experienced TFs might give a good fight, but Supes could definitely destroy a Transformer - we've seen him rip robots apart before. But on the flip side, we've seen robots and cyborgs hold their own against Supes by using strategy rather than just brute force - Metallo is a bit of a cheat since he's Kryptonite-powered.

I don't know that the ability to cloud someone's intuition is limited to the weak minded.ANH and ROTJ specifically call to it working on the "weak-minded": when Ben explains how he fooled the Sandtroopers, and when Jabba realizes Bib Fortuna is being controlled. It also comes up in the AOTC script, I don't remember if it's in the movie or cut-scene or not filmed, but Anakin tells Padme that Jedi Mind Tricks only work on the weak-minded, which she is definitely not.

Couldn't a Force user cloud Spidey's spidey sense in the same way that Palpatine could cloud what even Yoda could sense? Maybe Spidey would still know he was in danger, but could he actually read what the Force User was going to do if the Force User used the Force to hide what his or her attack was going to be? 1) We have no idea how the Force was clouded to the Jedi, for all we know it was Palpatine's manipulation of the people which sapped the Jedi of their ability to tap into the Force.
2) We have no idea how spider-sense works so there's no reason to believe a Sith would be able to block it. Since spider-sense is a bit of premonition, it'd work similar to how the Jedi use the Force and we've seen that Jedi vs Sith doesn't diminish either's premonition.
3) Since spider-sense is premonition, even if a Force user was going to do something unexpected to Spidey it couldn't be hidden to how time perceives it - it WILL happen, therefore it can be interpreted by spider-sense.

Would a Force user know that Spidey had spider sense so that an attempt would be made to cloud it?I doubt they would, Spidey himself doesn't even know what it is exactly and it's not like a Force-user would understand that Spidey's heightened reflexes are anything other than part of his superhero powers.

More interestingly though, do you believe when Force users fight they have to use part of their energy to stop his or her opponent from being able to sense what he or she will do next? Does a Force user have to stop his or her opponent from using his or her own body against him? Vader to Luke: Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself.Here's the problem, the prequels show a pretty unified behavior for Force users, you're either Jedi or Sith, there's no in between, no weak lightsiders or darksiders that aren't affiliated with the 2 religions, so knowing that they're all pretty up on their powers and defenses, I would say it's not likely that in a fight of 2 Force-users that one could affect the reflexes of another, basically it'd be like turning off the Force-faucet for one of them and I just don't think that's within a single user's power.

And you're all forgetting that any Prime (Prima, Prime Nova, Sentinel Prime, Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime), any other Matrix-holder (Deathbringer, Thunderwing), Primus, Unicron, and any Decepticon of Unicron's creation (Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps) have magical powers, to which Superman is vulnerable.I'm not forgetting it, I'm denying it's true. :p

Anyone know what the effect of a nuke on a Transformer would be? I know G.I. Joe's standard vehicles blew up Bumblebee in a really dumb comic book series.EMP might shut them off, a nuclear blast might tear them apart, but I don't know specifically if it's been put down on paper as such.

I think the Jedi would clean the floor with Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow.Absolutely agreed, ninjas are cool, gun-wielding ninjas are better, but lightsabers and Force powers can take them down leaving SE's only advantage being strategy which can only last for so long.

Bel-Cam Jos

05-16-2007, 09:09 PM

Could Anakin create a burrito so hot that even his skin couldn't handle it?

Anakin travels in a gonzo-colored speeder at 200kph. Superman, starting from a Coruscant apartment in the north at 180kph, enters a crossover story with the Fantastic Four. When will the next Punisher comic series get cancelled?

:confused:

figrin bran

05-16-2007, 09:34 PM

I think the Jedi would clean the floor with Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow.

Anakin travels in a gonzo-colored speeder at 200kph. Superman, starting from a Coruscant apartment in the north at 180kph, enters a crossover story.
Assuming he accelerates his movement to 1,000,000 kph in .04 seconds, and Anakin left 4 Coruscant-hours earlier to get a Mustafar burrito, and the distance from Coruscant to Mustafar is 9.7 billion km, who will get their lunch first?

figrin bran

05-16-2007, 11:13 PM

thank you Tycho, i'm glad someone around here still remembers ROTS. Even Zett Jukassa had better swordsmanship/fighting skills than those guys

Qui-Long Gone

05-17-2007, 12:54 AM

Next to Yoda and Obi, I think Zett took out the most clones....long live Zett!

Oh wait, he died.....

figrin bran

05-17-2007, 01:28 AM

Well, everyone dies eventually. it's just a matter of how high a body count you were responsible for along the way :p

Tycho

05-17-2007, 02:55 AM

Then dude, Lando killed the most when he blew the 2nd Death Star. I know in the movie Clerks, Dante points out Luke Skywalker, but the Death Star II was the one that was really still under construction.

"Do you know how many innocent contractors were on that thing?"

Or it was Tarkin, destroying Alderaan - but he had to get Palpatine's permission to do that.

El Chuxter

05-17-2007, 11:32 AM

The real question: Could Darth Vader take on Captain Planet?

Qui-Long Gone

05-17-2007, 12:53 PM

Yes Vader would win....Al Gore has put on too much weight recently....have you seen the guy? It's hard to miss 'em. :thumbsup:

El Chuxter

05-17-2007, 01:01 PM

I'm talking about the guy with the green mullet, who is formed by five half-wits activating their rings.

Qui-Long Gone

05-17-2007, 01:03 PM

I'm talking about the guy with the green mullet, who is formed by five half-wits activating their rings.

Bon Jovi doesn't have a green mullet......it's brown. :lipsrsealed:

El Chuxter

05-17-2007, 01:11 PM

Where you been, turkey? Bon Jovi hasn't had a mullet for almost fifteen years! :ninja: