Both of these guys are the centerpieces of their rosters, and their respective teams have both scored 11 goals - Buffalo in 9 games and Philly in 8 games. I wonder if either of these guys are on the trading block, especially Vanek who is a UFA after this year. Would the Sabres be willing to deal both Miller and Vanek in the same year? Talk about a major shakeup.

Giroux's contract is borderline obscene with a cap hit of $3.5M this year and then $8.725M from 2014 until 2022 or someting crazy like that. I can't see anyone picking that contract up but that team needs a major shake-up more than any team in the league. To boot they have My Cousin Vinny on the books for 5 years at $4.5M per. My God.

Neither team can score. Look at Buffalo's roster, and it makes sense that they're far and away the worst offensive team in the league. Philly doesn't make sense at all. I watched a bit of Philly-Pitt the other day - no idea what's off there. Everything?

In Philly's case its called the "Curse of Bryz". When the Flyer's bought him out, he proclaimed from another galaxy," the Flyer"s will be moribund,floundering and rudderless for eternal dimensions of time" or until i am back in the NHL and have led another team to the Cup, whichever comes first!!

Now, I'm going to guess Philly's is still defense and goaltending, but is it really that bad? Buffalo looks average or slightly above average in general. What is their deal?

Buffalo's problem - they just stink. They need a major overhaul and I think they will try to start it soon. I think Plilly has had a few injury problems (Hartnell & Lacavalier), they also need a real coach.

Philly doesn't play for a few days here - they have a total of about a week off, I think. We'll see if Berube is a "real coach" or not once he has a chance to make a few adjustments. Calgary, Jersey, Washington, Florida, the Rangers, and Edmonton all give up more goals against than the Flyers - not that this makes the Flyers as tight defensive team - but the inability to score is what's really killing Philly. Giroux has zero goals. Voracek has zero goals. Hartnell had zero points before he went down. Matt Read, who was a key part of their secondary scoring mix the last couple of years (24 and 11 goals) has zero points. Wayne Simmonds got his first goal the other day and now has two points. He was looking like a threat to hit 30 goals.

That kind of total breakdown is hard to fathom. Pure speculation, but Giroux had a hand/wrist injury over the summer, and Bruins fans know from both Samsonov and Allison that sometimes guys don't come back with the same shot and stickhandling gifts after that. That would be crushing for the team that has already used two amnesty buyouts. And he's the straw there, which might explain why the whole team is struggling. There also has to be some kind of chemistry issue for everyone there to be so ineffective. It can't have been just bad coaching by Laviolette. He's not Dave Lewis.

Holmgren's comment at the press conference made me think something like this might be true because it reminded me of the Thornton-led Bruins and the rumours that there were certain "in" guys with JT who thought they were the core - "we are not a team". You wonder if there's a divide between Giroux and whoever else and the younger guys like the Schenns and Couturier who came in as an on the fly rebuild after the Carter and Richards deals.

Philly doesn't play for a few days here - they have a total of about a week off, I think. We'll see if Berube is a "real coach" or not once he has a chance to make a few adjustments. Calgary, Jersey, Washington, Florida, the Rangers, and Edmonton all give up more goals against than the Flyers - not that this makes the Flyers as tight defensive team - but the inability to score is what's really killing Philly. Giroux has zero goals. Voracek has zero goals. Hartnell had zero points before he went down. Matt Read, who was a key part of their secondary scoring mix the last couple of years (24 and 11 goals) has zero points. Wayne Simmonds got his first goal the other day and now has two points. He was looking like a threat to hit 30 goals.

That kind of total breakdown is hard to fathom. Pure speculation, but Giroux had a hand/wrist injury over the summer, and Bruins fans know from both Samsonov and Allison that sometimes guys don't come back with the same shot and stickhandling gifts after that. That would be crushing for the team that has already used two amnesty buyouts. And he's the straw there, which might explain why the whole team is struggling. There also has to be some kind of chemistry issue for everyone there to be so ineffective. It can't have been just bad coaching by Laviolette. He's not Dave Lewis.

Holmgren's comment at the press conference made me think something like this might be true because it reminded me of the Thornton-led Bruins and the rumours that there were certain "in" guys with JT who thought they were the core - "we are not a team". You wonder if there's a divide between Giroux and whoever else and the younger guys like the Schenns and Couturier who came in as an on the fly rebuild after the Carter and Richards deals.

Good point Book and as SanDog said, Holmgren is probably a big part of the problem too. After the Carter/Richards deals and the disaster that was Bryz, his players must be saying "W.T.F is this guy doing to our team?"

Vanek would be the goal scorer the bruins can use but... who will the B's mngt. give up to get a elite goal scorer. Personally I always like Vanek's ability to score and for Girioux can't see him leaving philly. If Philly starts dropping in the standings which is already looking that way, players I can see on the block are hartnel (injuries is a problem now) timmonen ( they Flyers can get a healthy return for a good d man ). I can see Hartnel and Timmonen going to philly for Yakupov and a d prospect. The Oilers are now getting impatient with their 6 gm. losing streak that is occuring.

not for real, but what about packaging Eriksson and a young D-man [ Trotman} for Vanek. Chia cannot be happy with the seeming lack of chemistry; and now Claude is "kicking " Marchand, who may deserve it, but could rebound with different handling. All of the above has fractured Bergeron's line; and changing the smooth running Kelly line by moving Smith is another less than stellar decision. Claude has more capability than ever and is not moving well with the flow of talent.

Remembering the 103 point Buffalo team from 2010, a double-OT ting-net-post away from moving on. Then the next three years the identity crisis, "We need to be tougher". Reminded me of the NY Mets after 88' "why did you break up that team up ?".

Heh Tyler Myers LoL

PS. I want to finally see Snyder at the press conference and the final Holmgren heave-ho!

Remembering the 103 point Buffalo team from 2010, a double-OT ting-net-post away from moving on. Then the next three years the identity crisis, "We need to be tougher". Reminded me of the NY Mets after 88' "why did you break up that team up ?".

Heh Tyler Myers LoL

PS. I want to finally see Snyder at the press conference and the final Holmgren heave-ho!

Now, I'm going to guess Philly's is still defense and goaltending, but is it really that bad? Buffalo looks average or slightly above average in general. What is their deal?

Buffalo's major problem is:Regier

Philly's major problem is: No idea, they have the parts to be playing way better than they are.

Holgrem seems to dismantle the team every year expecting different results. It will not work in todays hockey. A manager cannot rebuild a team on a yearly basis. It takes aprox. 3 to 5 years to build a contending team. Girioux is their franchise player need to rebuild around him and ... picking up lecavalier was a mistake.

Mtl Edm or Dallas should of try harder to pursue Clarkson. Seguin is at 10 pts. good for the kid, the canadiens could of use clarkson grit and edm lacks grit on their team Clarkson could of been oilers future leader/cpt..

The leafs will have Clarkson in the line up soon probably the best transaction that leafs did in the off season.