Not an upgrade , but some good depth @ the least .. Thats what we need in the secondary , the injuries showed that .. And getting a corner later in the draft who has no expectations , can be a good thing .. Cant be any worse than McDonald .

January 22nd, 2012, 12:34 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10398Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cornerbacks

Killwill25 wrote:

Detroit_LIons wrote:

Actually this is a pretty deep draft for corners , I think we can get a pretty good corner later in the draft ..

right on. I think we should just go BPA in the first round again. It's gotten us this far...

I agree on the BPA...but it has to be done with some sense. We all talked about this last year as well. Nick Fairley was considered a top ten talent, easily, by many. The ONLY reason the Lions took him was because he was far and away the best player on the board. There was no distinct need for the position, but they just couldn't pass on that level of talent that late in the round. I understood that pick.

However, this year there could be a number of DTs available at the number 23 spot that are considered "value" selections. Same thing with wide receivers. Should the Lions use that pick on one of those players if one of them is considered to be the top talent on the board? They'd be fools if they did.

Teams MUST consider many different elements, not just talent. They have to take their needs into account, the division they play in, their relative age at the positions, cap costs at the position, current contracts in place and their expirations, free agency pickups, etc.

What if Ryan Tannehill is considered the top prospect at #23? Do they burn that pick on another QB who will be a backup for years? No.

So, while I agree that the Lions can't reach to fill a need, they likewise can't just say "he's the best talent, it doesn't matter that he's a QB, or a DT, or a TE, or a WR.." All that has to be taken into consideration.

The Lions have more than enough needs that I think they can find a player at that spot who holds value based on talent but still fills some level of need, either as a starter or primary backup with future starter written all over him.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

Actually this is a pretty deep draft for corners , I think we can get a pretty good corner later in the draft ..

right on. I think we should just go BPA in the first round again. It's gotten us this far...

I agree on the BPA...but it has to be done with some sense. We all talked about this last year as well. Nick Fairley was considered a top ten talent, easily, by many. The ONLY reason the Lions took him was because he was far and away the best player on the board. There was no distinct need for the position, but they just couldn't pass on that level of talent that late in the round. I understood that pick.

However, this year there could be a number of DTs available at the number 23 spot that are considered "value" selections. Same thing with wide receivers. Should the Lions use that pick on one of those players if one of them is considered to be the top talent on the board? They'd be fools if they did.

Teams MUST consider many different elements, not just talent. They have to take their needs into account, the division they play in, their relative age at the positions, cap costs at the position, current contracts in place and their expirations, free agency pickups, etc.

What if Ryan Tannehill is considered the top prospect at #23? Do they burn that pick on another QB who will be a backup for years? No.

So, while I agree that the Lions can't reach to fill a need, they likewise can't just say "he's the best talent, it doesn't matter that he's a QB, or a DT, or a TE, or a WR.." All that has to be taken into consideration.

The Lions have more than enough needs that I think they can find a player at that spot who holds value based on talent but still fills some level of need, either as a starter or primary backup with future starter written all over him.

You're right, and Mayhew and Schwartz have repeatedly said common sense is their philosophy. While they are oft-quoted as saying they'll take the "best player available," they've also acknowledged that common sense must play a role in the decision as well. Some folks take the BPA philosophy too literally, thinking the front office will do something ridiculous but that's clearly not their strategy. Here's one example:

ALLEN PARK, Mich -- The Detroit Lions won't take a quarterback with the 13th overall pick in the NFL draft .

Other than that, not even the Lions' brain trust is certain what the team will do next week.

"It's always interesting to me and funny when I read that somebody said that we're not going to take an offensive player or we're not going to take a certain player," general manager Martin Mayhew said Thursday. "I don't even know who we're going to take right now. I'm not sure how somebody else could know."

Detroit's biggest voids seem to be at cornerback, linebacker and offensive tackle after closing last season with four wins and a 6-10 record two years after becoming the first NFL team to go 0-16.

"We have a lot more needs than people realize," Mayhew said, entering his third draft in charge of football operations after assisting fired GM Matt Millen. "There are a lot of places we can get better and there are a lot of good players in this draft."Our philosophy has been to take the best player. I don't think that's going to change."

Mayhew, though, acknowledged common sense will prevail if the best player on the Lions' draft board is a quarterback when it is their turn to pick in the first round.

"In the first round, we're not taking a quarterback," he said. "You can put that on the record."

Detroit is very comfortable with its trio of quarterbacks: Matthew Stafford , Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton .

After they've made the 13th selection Thursday night, the Lions will have one pick each in the second and third rounds Friday and slots in the fourth, fifth and seventh rounds Saturday.

Detroit got its seventh-round pick back from the league after appealing a ruling that the franchise had to give up that selection and switch fifth-round slots with the Kansas City Chiefs for violating the league's tampering policy.

"That's very important," Mayhew said. "That's why we aggressively went after that pick."

If the Lions make the playoffs next season, they will give Kansas City their sixth-round pick. If not, the Chiefs will get Detroit's seventh-round slot in the 2012 draft.

Detroit's chances of having success next season, assuming the NFL lockout ends and there is a season, may hinge on Stafford's ability to play an entire year for the first time as a pro. That could lead Detroit to draft at least one offensive lineman.

Stafford was healthy enough to play just three games last year and 10 games after being the No. 1 pick in 2009 because of shoulder and knee injuries.

"We need to keep him on the field," coach Jim Schwartz said last month in New Orleans at the NFL Annual Meeting.

If the Lions can help Stafford enough to at least approach 16 starts, they might have a shot at completing their quest to finish ahead of the Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers , conference runner-up Chicago and Minnesota in the NFC North. Detroit was the last team to beat Green Bay last season, closed the regular season with a win over Minnesota and lost two tight games to Chicago.

"The goal for this team is to win our division and we showed last year we can match up with the teams in our division," Mayhew said.

The Lions might want to move toward that next step with a standout cornerback.

If Nebraska's Prince Amukamara is not available, they may take a chance on Colorado's Jimmy Smith . He failed at least one drug test and faced two minor-in-possession of alcohol charges in college. Mayhew said the Lions extensively investigate the character of prospects, including Smith.

"We've done a lot of work on Jimmy," he said. "I feel better about him than I did before I met him."

Of course, Mayhew might be publicly praising Smith as a person in the hopes that another team picks him to make an offensive tackle such as USC's Tyron Smith or Boston College's Anthony Castonzo or another targeted player available in the first round.

"There are probably a little bit more than a handful of players who we're talking about," Mayhew said. "We'll continue to talk about those players until we make a final decision."

Mayhew acknowledged the team's first pick may not start right away. That probably would be the case with Smith or Castonzo because either would likely back up Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus as a rookie.

"We're not drafting to get ready for the first game of the season," Mayhew said. "We're drafting for the future of the franchise."

Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press

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January 23rd, 2012, 3:54 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3485Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Cornerbacks

I have a strong feeling that my thoughts on drafting Janoris Jenkins will change from now until the draft. Right now, I dont want him. The last thing we need is someone with character concerns. His ability to play cornerback at a high level and be very good at cannot be questioned. BUT, is off the field issues cant be neither. I think the question "Is the risk worth the reward?" is gonna be a much talked about topic leading up to the draft, and most likely on this forum too.

January 24th, 2012, 9:48 pm

Mufasa

Red Shirt Freshman

Joined: January 11th, 2006, 4:04 pmPosts: 460

Re: Cornerbacks

Burfict or Konz first round and Trumaine Johnson DB (Montana) second round would be nice.

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February 28th, 2012, 4:18 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10398Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cornerbacks

Mufasa wrote:

Burfict or Konz first round and Trumaine Johnson DB (Montana) second round would be nice.

Burfict? Where have you been?

Burfict not only interviewed himself out of round one possibility, but he ran himself out of it as well. He'll be lucky to get drafted at all now. There's little doubt the Lions won't select him.

Konz - I agree, he should still be a first round pick consideration for the Lions. However, I have a strong feeling the Lions won't take him if he is there.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 28th, 2012, 4:41 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Cornerbacks

Saying that he "won't take a QB" is hardly a common sense approach to the BPA strategy. Hopefully he also meant that he wouldn't draft a DT. Anywhere else I think the strategy flies. People on here would kick and scream, but if there is a top 10 talent at WR that falls to us at 23, I wouldn't mind taking him. I would RATHER we we took someone like Cunningham or Hemmingway in the 3rd to 5th round, but I wouldn't mind us taking a WR.

For those that want to cry about the selection, remember:1) It would give us assurance if CJ is bent on testing the market;2) It would be a HUGE upgrade over Nate;3) It would be a huge value @ 23 (remember good #2 WRs not named Welker generally make around $4-6.5 per year, we would be getting this guy for around $1.8 per year);4) It would allow us to cut Nate and save his entire $4 million dollars in cap space; and5) We would have a LEGITIMATE 2nd deep threat to take pressure off of CJ.

That's huge. Now, in realizing that the OL is already old I would prefer that we draft someone like Konz in the first round and draft a WR later. However, if we took the approach that we're going to draft someone like Molk later in the draft, sit him and coach him for a year or two, and draft a WR first, I can accept that strategy.

My ONLY issue is reaching for an OT that is going to be a downgrade from Backus this year, or a LB, CB, or FS that can't cover and won't ever be better than average at their position, and it is VERY likely, especially in this class. There aren't many LBs, CBs, or FSs to write home about. I haven't seen one LB or FS consistently graded in the top 10 (with the top safety is regularly graded around 15-27), and most acknowledge that the top CB this year isn't rated as high as Peterson last year. Not to mention the fact that the abilities of these top players isn't exactly what we're looking for. These guys are heavy hitters and pass rushers, we need guys that can cover.

Burfict or Konz first round and Trumaine Johnson DB (Montana) second round would be nice.

Burfict? Where have you been?

Burfict not only interviewed himself out of round one possibility, but he ran himself out of it as well. He'll be lucky to get drafted at all now. There's little doubt the Lions won't select him.

Konz - I agree, he should still be a first round pick consideration for the Lions. However, I have a strong feeling the Lions won't take him if he is there.

I think that if the Lions have the choice between Glenn and Konz, they would choose Glenn. I think they would do this because Glenn can be used in both OT and Both Guard spots. Konz on the other hand can cover Center and both guard spots. When in doubt, go with the guy that can cover more spots.

February 28th, 2012, 4:49 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Cornerbacks

BillySims wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

Mufasa wrote:

Burfict or Konz first round and Trumaine Johnson DB (Montana) second round would be nice.

Burfict? Where have you been?

Burfict not only interviewed himself out of round one possibility, but he ran himself out of it as well. He'll be lucky to get drafted at all now. There's little doubt the Lions won't select him.

Konz - I agree, he should still be a first round pick consideration for the Lions. However, I have a strong feeling the Lions won't take him if he is there.

I think that if the Lions have the choice between Glenn and Konz, they would choose Glenn. I think they would do this because Glenn can be used in both OT and Both Guard spots. Konz on the other hand can cover Center and both guard spots. When in doubt, go with the guy that can cover more spots.

Konz use to play LT at Wisconsin, but I really wouldn't want to see him play OT in the NFL. That said, if he had to, I think Konz would be a BETTER OT than Glenn. People talk about Glenn being able to play LT, and that's fine, but really, at the end of the day, I think it's just talk. IMO there's no way in hell you're going to see a 350lb LT in the NFL, unless it's on an unconventional team like Phili or Baltimore, or on a team that has a left handed Qb.

I understand that Glenn has "quick feet for his size" but he's still a giant fatass that has trouble controlling his weight at 23, and IMO has Carey/Gibson concerns.

February 28th, 2012, 4:58 pm

Mufasa

Red Shirt Freshman

Joined: January 11th, 2006, 4:04 pmPosts: 460

Re: Cornerbacks

m2karateman wrote:

Mufasa wrote:

Burfict or Konz first round and Trumaine Johnson DB (Montana) second round would be nice.

Burfict? Where have you been?

Burfict not only interviewed himself out of round one possibility, but he ran himself out of it as well. He'll be lucky to get drafted at all now. There's little doubt the Lions won't select him.

Konz - I agree, he should still be a first round pick consideration for the Lions. However, I have a strong feeling the Lions won't take him if he is there.

Yea I had no idea that Burfict fell apart like that at the Combine until I read your post and did some research. I'm usually pretty good about watching the entire Combine and this year I just so happen to watch qb,rb and db's missing o-line and dl, lb's. So I agree with you, what a waisted talent ruining any chances of being a 1st rd pick.

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February 28th, 2012, 9:23 pm

Mufasa

Red Shirt Freshman

Joined: January 11th, 2006, 4:04 pmPosts: 460

Re: Cornerbacks

If Burfict falls to the 4th or 5th round, pull the trigger and he continues to act like a rectum we just cut him and waisted a 5th on a high risk, high reward player. Stephen Hill might be a nice replacement for Burelson.

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February 28th, 2012, 9:35 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10398Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cornerbacks

Mufasa wrote:

If Burfict falls to the 4th or 5th round, pull the trigger and he continues to act like a rectum we just cut him and waisted a 5th on a high risk, high reward player. Stephen Hill might be a nice replacement for Burelson.

Can't say I agree with the Burfict pick. In the NFL players have to be accountable, and this guy seems like he's ready to throw his own momma under the bus for his stupidity. I want no part of him. But it's not my call. Personally, I'd rather they took a shot with Janoris Jenkins in round one. At least he's been contrite.

As for Stephen Hill, I think he comes off the board well before the Lions pick in round two. Just my opinion, but with his speed and the catch he made, teams are going to be willing to take that chance on him. If he is still available in round two when St. Louis picks and they didn't take a WR in round one, that will be his new home.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 28th, 2012, 11:08 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2411Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Cornerbacks

Quote:

I would RATHER we we took someone like Cunningham or Hemmingway in the 3rd to 5th round, but I wouldn't mind us taking a WR.

What about Ryan Broyles? I know he's hurt now but when healthy, he is better than those two. As much as I love Hemmingway

_________________Just one Super Bowl win before I go!

March 1st, 2012, 1:21 am

Boz

All State

Joined: September 28th, 2011, 5:57 pmPosts: 338

Re: Cornerbacks

I know that this thread is getting of the original subject, but how about Jordon White from Western. Seems to me that he could be a Welker Type.

Now back to the show you where watching.

Janoris Jenkins is a great talent at CB. Yes he comes with alot of baggage, some of which may have a positive effect on his play.

He's what 22, 23? Has 4 children. The ketch here is if is is going to step up to the plate and take care of those kids? If he has that in him then his work ethic will not be a problem.Years ago I had a guy work for me that had 3 ex wives and 8 kids. He actually slept on a cot in the basement of the plant. Al worked a double shift 6 days a week, just because he wanted to take care of his kids. Granted Al was alot older than Jenkins is now but same situation.

Smoking dope? Well Al smoked his share, helped him sleep (ok?).

My problem with Jenkins is common sense. Smoke when you know that you might be tested? That is a sign of immaturity. He is a high risk, high value kinda a guy. So is Burfecit(sp?) I'd take both. Burfecit obviuosly in the later rounds, he is a low risk high reward guy. Take him in the 5, 6, 7th round. doesn't work cut him.

Saying that he "won't take a QB" is hardly a common sense approach to the BPA strategy. Hopefully he also meant that he wouldn't draft a DT.

Yes, that's what he meant--it wasn't intended to be interpreted literally. He was only using QB as an example to illustrate that they no longer have to strictly adhere to BPA strategy.

After the first two drafts (2009 and 2010) in which Mayhew & Co. were indeed drafting BPA, a lot of folks got hung up on the idea that a firm adherence to BPA would be the front office's long-term strategy. Mayhew and Schwartz have both stated (many times) that those first two drafts were strictly BPA because the team was so bad they just needed to acquire talent. Now that the roster is closer to complete, they'll balance BPA with common sense in making picks. That's what they've said anyway.

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