The .380 is a poor choice to begin with, it's a weak caliber primarily chambered in very small hard to shoot pocket guns. However if it's you're only choice you're better off with a FMJ ball load. Ft lbs of Energy, hydrostatic shock & temporary stretch cavity are meaningless when dealing with handgun cartridges, liability as it pertains to over penetration is a severely over-hyped boogieman as most shots fired miss the bad guy anyway.

Penetration is the primary performance factor when choosing carry ammunition, your round must be capable of penetrating to the vitals in order to do their job effectively. As bmcgilvray said above, Expansion is not magic.

Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not recommended for LE use and many savvy agencies prohibit them.

You left the .380 magnum round off your list. Even the article quoted states effectiveness of the round is dependent upon shot placement, and that seems to always be the main argument folks offer for choosing to carry sub-caliber rounds. I would prefer, if I'm going to bother even carrying a gun all the time, to carry something that a) is a proven fight stopper, and b) won't rely on a 4" window of effectiveness upon a moving lethal target. I don't view threats on my life as a good time to show off my awesome marksmanship, or stick a couple of ineffective holes in an adversary who may be drugged up/amped up/etc. Choosing SD weapons based upon convenience and comfort is stinking thinking. JMO.

June 26th, 2012, 09:57 AM

Civil_Response

I said it was a good read, just because you may not agree with it doesn't mean it's not just as valid as other opinions... the .380 has proved itself quite deadly, contrary to many unfounded beliefs that it's worthless.

Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not recommended for LE use and many savvy agencies prohibit them.

For .380 (Sig P238) I carry 7+1 plus 2 7rd mags of 90gr Gold Dots. I also subscribe to 124gr GD's in 9mm, 180gr GD's in .40 and 230gr GD's in .45

I've shot a lot of these and they are reliable and consistent. I'm sure the other options have their merits as well.

June 26th, 2012, 10:24 AM

MrBuckwheat

If I carry the .380 ( which is not very often ) I use the Hornady. Main reason, they go on sale at Fleet Farm and are priced competitively.
I am not saying it is the best out there but it works good, price is good and they always have them in stock.

June 26th, 2012, 10:25 AM

sgb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder71

I said it was a good read, just because you may not agree with it doesn't mean it's not just as valid as other opinions... the .380 has proved itself quite deadly, contrary to many unfounded beliefs that it's worthless.

You didn't answer my question. I think it's a valid question as any numbskull (including me) can post their opinion, however some opinions carry a lot more weight than others when they're documented as coming from information published by a leading industry professional vs. Joe (unknown) Smoe. Not all opinions are created equal.

June 26th, 2012, 10:46 AM

ericb327

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgb

You didn't answer my question. I think it's a valid question as any numbskull (including me) can post their opinion, however some opinions carry a lot more weight than others when they're documented as coming from information published by a leading industry professional vs. Joe (unknown) Smoe. Not all opinions are created equal.

I'm wondering who you find to be credible sources for ballistics? The FBI, Evan Marshal, Ed Sanow, Massad Ayoob or just your reference? What about actual defensive shootings? If you are not in favor of the .380 caliber maybe you are in the wrong thread. This is for people who choose to carry .380 and what their choice would be.

June 26th, 2012, 10:53 AM

sgb

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericb327

I'm wondering who you find to be credible sources for ballistics? The FBI, Evan Marshal, Ed Sanow, Massad Ayoob or just your reference? What about actual defensive shootings? If you are not in favor of the .380 caliber maybe you are in the wrong thread. This is for people who choose to carry .380 and what their choice would be.

So your contribution is if I don't agree then rather than use a logical discussion to support my opinion is to just shut up and go away? I think that's called denial friend. If you're happy packing a .380 with what ever ammo that's your choice and no skin off me. However some reading this thread may not be quite ready to blindly follow the mousegun herd.

The FBI protocol is the standard, supported by science and corroborated by real life performance in LE shootings. Doc Roberts is an industry leader in the field of terminal ballistics and widely listened too by people who carry firearms for a living, Marshal & Sanow have been widely discredited and Ayoob has a tendency to sway what ever way the financial winds blow - My .02 because you asked.

June 26th, 2012, 10:55 AM

Yankeejib

This is an interesting (and impartial) project. Makes it very easy to compare apples to apples, round vs. round, etc.

So your contribution is if I don't agree then rather than use a logical discussion to support my opinion is to just shut up and go away? I think that's called denial friend. If you're happy packing a .380 with what ever ammo that's your choice and no skin off me. However some reading this thread may not be quite ready to blindly follow the mousegun herd.

Doc Roberts is an industry leader in the field of terminal ballistics, Marshal & Sanow have been widely discredited and Ayoob has a tendency to sway what ever way the financial winds blow - My .02 because you asked.

These other members said they simply would not carry .380! Points taken! I should point out that in other threads members opinion are deleted and threads closed by members voting who don't agree with the thread. Although I don't agree with this, it seems to be the trend. I think you feel so passionately about your view of the .380, you are trying to change our minds or trying to make us look foolish for choosing the .380.

I think most of us realize .380 is not the Ideal defense round. However, the .380 offers some members the ability for better concealment at work or in the hot summer months. My P238 is one of the smallest .380 platforms there is and it shoots quite well and accurate.

June 26th, 2012, 11:16 AM

Foo909

Now now let's not turn this into an argument.

I realize the .380 ACP is a compromise. I have also listed the poll in descending order from more penetration to less. It seems that it runs in the least expansion to most as well. This will give me an idea of what is more important to the end user.

My current favorites are the flat nose FMJ's or the Hydra-Shok's. I can't make my mind up 100% either way. Really wishing they manufactured a soft point type .380 that would expand to about .45 and get a 12". I don't think the critical defense will feed properly in what I'm going to use.

June 26th, 2012, 11:17 AM

Civil_Response

Quote:

Which .380 ACP round would you go with?

Why is that so difficult... If you don't have a .380 you're in the clear on this one. This isn't a .380 vs 45 ACP thread, however I'd personally be interested in learning more about various .380 rounds as I do carry one on occasion.

Thanks.

In my TCP (after 3 rounds to Taurus) it now seems to shoot whatever I feed it, but I am still quite partial to Federal ammo as I stated. Streicher's (local to me) did a test and showed me the bullets of a few various rounds after impact on a windshield, the Federal was very impressive while the Hornady was merely angled, no expansion.