I've always asked what a world of left wing fanaticism would look like and no one has answered me. I think it would look like clean air, universal health care and maybe better MPG in cars.

Man, hell I say, HELL.

That's because you lot don't really have a left wing, so it's hard to imagine what an far-left government would look like.

Over here we have The Greens, and while I agree with a lot of their policies they also have a bunch of ideas which a flatly unworkable and would tank the economy. For instance, they were in favour of shutting down the coal industry.

It's not only that we don't have a comparable number of left-wing lunatics, we barely have a left wing at all! We have the hard right, and a middle. I would be happy if we actually had a real left wing over here.

That's not really true. If you've spent much time in New England, you'd see the substantial number of people (I'd say at least 40%) that are pretty left wing, even by European standards. I'm guessing you've lived in the Seattle area, which along with Portland is fairly left-wing as well. But due to the two party system and the fact that Democrats can count on their vote, they don't have much of a voice in national politics. There are even some left-wing "lunies" with utterly simplistic and ridiculous political views, similar to the Religious Right, but they're in too small numbers and are too harmless to gain media attention.

I've always asked what a world of left wing fanaticism would look like and no one has answered me. I think it would look like clean air, universal health care and maybe better MPG in cars.

Man, hell I say, HELL.

Communism/socialism. Those are extreme political left wing voices, I believe. And I mean Karl Marx's Communism, not the Communism/Totalitarian regimes we ended up with post WWII in Russia, China, Cuba, etc. There are democratic socialist parties that can be swung pretty far left.

No reason to exclude totalitarianism from consideration. That's what fanaticism leads to, whether left, right, up, or down. Well either that or anarchy. The original leftists produced both, in the aftermath of the French Revolution.

I've always asked what a world of left wing fanaticism would look like and no one has answered me. I think it would look like clean air, universal health care and maybe better MPG in cars.

Man, hell I say, HELL.

Communism/socialism. Those are extreme political left wing voices, I believe. And I mean Karl Marx's Communism, not the Communism/Totalitarian regimes we ended up with post WWII in Russia, China, Cuba, etc. There are democratic socialist parties that can be swung pretty far left.

That is a thought experiment as no one that could be considered "left wing" is espousing Marxist ideals; as much as Glen Beck, that Cardassian on Fox news, and Limbaugh would like us to believe. At most, like I said above, we would have universal healthcare and exceptionally clear air.

No reason to exclude totalitarianism from consideration. That's what fanaticism leads to, whether left, right, up, or down. Well either that or anarchy. The original leftists produced both, in the aftermath of the French Revolution.

To me, the SRB tends to be the voice of what sounds like totalitarianism; and even more frightening are the parallels of demagoguery between Hitler and the Nazi party, and the type of people from the Tea Party and the SRB. Both parties demonized a part of the population for their ills. For the SRB, it's the liberal godless people that 'aren't American'. Then there is the definition of a 'real American'. And then there is 'exceptional America'. Then there is stuff like demographic problems, to 'we are now the minority'.And add to that, railing against ideas like universal health care, to a party literally funded by big business, i.e. Koch Brothers, Adelson, etc., etc. The SRB is the totalitarian party, the party of big business and fuck the individual.

edit 2: and the only reason why the 'leftist' created all this, is because the left tends to attract the more intellectual minded. Conservatism doesn't leave a lot of room for intellectual thought if you have to constantly wrap your inner thoughts, and outer voice with a conservative linguistic framework. Once you start being more creative and coming up with a new system, you're pretty much out of conserving the status quo and maintaing the old establishment. I could be totally wrong in this over simplification, but I don't see how a conservative party leads to new concepts of governement. If anything conservatives will always find ways to maintain their power and ideals, not expand and embrace new concepts till they themselves become the status quo. Like gay rights being more and more embraced also by the conservative party.

Pocky Is God wrote:

9600man wrote:

Pocky Is God wrote:

I've always asked what a world of left wing fanaticism would look like and no one has answered me. I think it would look like clean air, universal health care and maybe better MPG in cars.

Man, hell I say, HELL.

Communism/socialism. Those are extreme political left wing voices, I believe. And I mean Karl Marx's Communism, not the Communism/Totalitarian regimes we ended up with post WWII in Russia, China, Cuba, etc. There are democratic socialist parties that can be swung pretty far left.

That is a thought experiment as no one that could be considered "left wing" is espousing Marxist ideals; as much as Glen Beck, that Cardassian on Fox news, and Limbaugh would like us to believe. At most, like I said above, we would have universal healthcare and exceptionally clear air.

I'm not American. So that isn't a thought experiment for us. I meant that if there were an extreme political left wing voice in the US, it would be in the direction of socialism, communism. Stricter regulations, more government over sight on many social aspects of life. Unless you think 'exceptionally clear air' is possible without strong government regulation and over sight? And universal health care, equally is possible without a strong centralised government. So you start going more in that direction, like for example, maybe banks become heavily regulated, or separation of investment/commercial banking from public/consumer banking.Extend universal health care, to universal equality of basic food. Why not? The poor in America have access to cheap food in the form of junk food, and that leads to heart disease and obesity, etc, putting a strain on the medical institutions. So now you have a movement to guarantee at least access to proper food equally, and that's going to require even more government involvement. I don't think that's a bad thing, remember, I'm not an American, so I'm not wired to hate the fellow citizen and think if they can't afford medical care it's because they're lazy or not white enough (yes, I'm being mean spirited and facetious here).

So you might laughingly say, 'clean air and universal health care!!!', but it's the language of how that's wrapped up in politically. And then take that language, and the ultimate social ideal, and just push it a little more. Access to proper food. Access to decent living conditions.

Okay lunch time. I be back later. Once again, proving I'm not in the US, albeit, it's 3 in the afternoon here and I'm having a late lunch.

Edit: The right wing of the party already do some of the more extreme left wing talking for you guys. 'Food Stamp President' etc,

Hey look, another very wealthy person raving about how high taxes are going to cause him to make irrational economic decisions, this time pro golfer Phil Mickelson:Tax bite: Mickelson's 'drastic changes'

Quote:

“If you add up all the federal and you look at the disability and the unemployment and the Social Security and the state, my tax rate is 62, 63 percent,” Mickelson said. “I’ve got to make some decisions on what I am going to do.”

Mickelson, 42, has earned $67,677,098 on the golf course and considerably more off the golf course in a Hall of Fame career during which he has won 40 PGA Tour events, including four major championships.

That's not really true. If you've spent much time in New England, you'd see the substantial number of people (I'd say at least 40%) that are pretty left wing, even by European standards.

I've lived here all my life but spent plenty of time outside of New England. I don't buy it The SRB may be slightly weaker here (or at least where I am now, because the greater Boston area has some money in it--Maine and New Hampshire have plenty of it), but there is no appreciable left wing. I consider myself moderately left on a global scale and there are fairly few people outside of academia who are in the same ballpark.

I've always asked what a world of left wing fanaticism would look like and no one has answered me. I think it would look like clean air, universal health care and maybe better MPG in cars.

Man, hell I say, HELL.

The most striking feature of an extreme left-wing state: the abolition of substantial private property. You'd still be allowed trinkets and keepsakes, but private ownership of land, property, and capital equipment would be abolished. Private corporations would be a thing of the past. All goods, whether they be food, housing, or anything else, would be produced for the community, and they would be allocated as the community saw fit.

It's extreme, but no more extreme than the libertarian poseurs that frequent this board, who insist that private property and contract rights are all anyone needs for anything, and that beyond that we should be free of government interference.

The extreme left-wing approach has been practised on a small scale, in various communes around the world, so it's not entirely impossible. It doesn't, however, appear to be particularly scalable, and those who do not wish to work within the rules of the system are problematic.

The US lacks any significant left wing. Hell, the US lacks even a social democratic party, even though these have essentially been mainstays of European politics for decades.

Yeah by UK, Europe and Australian standards, the Democrats are centre-right if not outright right-wing. The Republicans are off the scale.

I'd love to see a SRB member emigrate to Australia. It'd be fascinating. Having to deal with socialised healthcare, gun control, collective bargaining, consumer advocates which actually have teeth... and on top of that, an Athiest, unmarried, Female PM.

There was that thing that went around Facebook after the election where some moron on Twitter decided that they were going to emigrate to Australia out of their dismay that Obama got reelected that made much the same point.

Where the fuck does an American who thinks that Obama is too left-wing go?

The libertarians get all butthurt when you tell them to fuck off Somalia, but where else is left?

If you have a political climate where one of the party lines is, we built it, and actually gains traction, there is no left in that political climate. Can you imagine any right wing parties trying that in Europe, Australia, or SE Asia? And some how gaining any traction to be a public talking point for more then 5 minutes? If anyone said that here, we wouldn't even acknowledge that person as being serious. There would be no political credibility.

It's not only that we don't have a comparable number of left-wing lunatics, we barely have a left wing at all! We have the hard right, and a middle. I would be happy if we actually had a real left wing over here.

That's not really true. If you've spent much time in New England, you'd see the substantial number of people (I'd say at least 40%) that are pretty left wing, even by European standards

I've spent a lot of time in New England and the pacific northwest. There is barely any left wing element here.

There was that thing that went around Facebook after the election where some moron on Twitter decided that they were going to emigrate to Australia out of their dismay that Obama got reelected that made much the same point.

Did he move because of Obama being voted? And Italy? I've loved my visits there, but no one 'escapes' to Italy to get away from a corrupt government, because you know, Italy!

No. Skoop is an old Clintonian fan who decided to get out of the US when he saw that the downright sad lack of sex scandals in the Bush administration was being perpetuated by that holier than though, perfect son-in-law, Obama.

Now if Berlusconi doesn't get reelected, one might wonder where Skoop will seek asylum from boring politicians who can keep their dick in their pants...

Did he move because of Obama being voted? And Italy? I've loved my visits there, but no one 'escapes' to Italy to get away from a corrupt government, because you know, Italy!

No. Skoop is an old Clintonian fan who decided to get out of the US when he saw that the downright sad lack of sex scandals in the Bush administration was being perpetuated by that holier than though, perfect son-in-law, Obama.

Now if Berlusconi doesn't get reelected, one might wonder where Skoop will seek asylum from boring politicians who can keep their dick in their pants...

France is usually good for people who can't keep it in their pants...pretty much any time, aren't they?

France is usually good for people who can't keep it in their pants...pretty much any time, aren't they?

Well, not in the last few years...Sarkozy seems to have been faithful to his ex-topmodel wife and while Hollande seems stuck in the middle of a complicated situation where his ex-wife is a power player in his own party there doesn't seem to be anything untoward going on.Now, if Strauss-Kahn had been elected, oh boy, that would have been something that might have even rivaled with Berlusconi.

What we do know is that Skoop won't be going to Germany and Ice Queen Merkel

Edit: 9600man, no. I must have fallen afoul of my bro Genome, 'cause he be slanderin' me now.

Ah, okay. Well, honestly, I can't feel bad for you. You're not only living in Italy, you're living in the Mediterranean. Corrupt politics and police aside, you're just a train ride and boat ride away from some of the most beautiful countries, islands in the world, with amazing food and weather. Every summer or winter break, it's just a train or short flight to a country with a different language, culture and history. And you could always hop over to Cairo and see the pyramids, which isn't that long a flight from Italy, around 3 hours. You can see the Pyramids in a little under 5 hours! So I feel bad your bro Genome seems to have it in for you. So get yourself a delicious simple olive oil based pasta, then book a flight to Cairo, go see the Pyramids, take a photo and caption it, 'Hey Genome, I'm standing in front of the Giza pyramids, what the fuck are you doing today?'

edit: Oh, I just realised Genome's tribus is Europe too. If he's in North West of Europe, then it's still far from the Mediterranean, including Egypt. So yeah... ah... damn it... can't really burn the dude now can we.

edit 2: Pyramids are a big deal for me because of Indiana Jones (if I have to explain that, then you are not from my generation).

Yeah, the way I worded it, it was a lobbed softball. A moment of rhetorical weakness. Not the thing to do in the SB.

You should have known better. The Soap Box is a rethorical arena akin to Roman gladiatorial fights. Lower your guard a split second and you can be sure someone is going to stab you with a trident/glaive or a lion/tiger/bear will maul you.

That's not really true. If you've spent much time in New England, you'd see the substantial number of people (I'd say at least 40%) that are pretty left wing, even by European standards.

If by "leftwing" you mean "to the left of GWB" sure. To the left of Clinton or Obama? There are a few, but not nearly as many as you might think. Maine, New Hampshire and vast swaths of Connecticut are pretty conservative. Outside of the major cities, MA and RI are pretty conservative (especially central MA) And lets not forget that "blue" MA has elected a string of Republican governors, including Mitt Romney.

Just had a recruiter reach out to me with a job description that includes the following:

The Company wrote:

Character Qualifications: - Be self-motivated. - Demonstrate the ability to work in a remote environment of a home office. - Be a learner with a teachable spirit. - Be able to work with a team.- Possess good documentation/follow-up skills. - Comfortable communicating with internal and external audiences.- A heart for Kingdom building

Now, I'm pretty sure that's secret code for "You need to be a card-carrying Christian Reformed churchgoer" (it's located locally in an area which is heavy CRC), but I can't help but envision that the company's primary campus is like a fucking castle or something.

Just had a recruiter reach out to me with a job description that includes the following:

The Company wrote:

Character Qualifications: - Be self-motivated. - Demonstrate the ability to work in a remote environment of a home office. - Be a learner with a teachable spirit. - Be able to work with a team.- Possess good documentation/follow-up skills. - Comfortable communicating with internal and external audiences.- A heart for Kingdom building

Now, I'm pretty sure that's secret code for "You need to be a card-carrying Christian Reformed churchgoer" (it's located locally in an area which is heavy CRC), but I can't help but envision that the company's primary campus is like a fucking castle or something.

If I had to make a guess based on that excerpt and where you live, I'd say Calvin College. It's a pretty typical small liberal arts school, campus-wise. Not so much typical small liberal arts school student/faculty wise though.

Should have said, "show me one of these Obama haters who has acted on their gripe and actually left the new Socialist Republik of Amerika."

One wonders how many of those have left vs. how many of the "if Bush wins I'm leaving for Canada" people followed through.

The difference being that for left wing Americans there are a multitude of developed nations that would meet their criteria of being to the left of the United States of America while for right wing Americans there is no developed nation that is politically to the right of the United States of America. They have to make their stand here.

Just had a recruiter reach out to me with a job description that includes the following:

The Company wrote:

Character Qualifications: - Be self-motivated. - Demonstrate the ability to work in a remote environment of a home office. - Be a learner with a teachable spirit. - Be able to work with a team.- Possess good documentation/follow-up skills. - Comfortable communicating with internal and external audiences.- A heart for Kingdom building

Now, I'm pretty sure that's secret code for "You need to be a card-carrying Christian Reformed churchgoer" (it's located locally in an area which is heavy CRC), but I can't help but envision that the company's primary campus is like a fucking castle or something.

If I had to make a guess based on that excerpt and where you live, I'd say Calvin College. It's a pretty typical small liberal arts school, campus-wise. Not so much typical small liberal arts school student/faculty wise though.