22 October 2017 12:19 AM

A smacking ban? It may come back and slap us in the face

I am sure that being smacked (very seldom, as it happened) did me some harm, though I am equally sure there are some people who think I should have been smacked more than I was.

But the question is whether banning smacking will do more harm than allowing it. And that is much more complicated. No sane person actively wants to smack a child. But a lot of sane, kind people have sometimes thought it wise to do so.

They have often regretted it afterwards, but more because of the effect it had on them than for the effect it had on the child.

I’m not talking here about the angry and obviously damaging violence you sometimes see in supermarkets, where an exasperated and furious parent, having long ago lost control of a child, lashes out in futile, disorderly rage.

I am certainly not talking about the use of a closed fist.

But children need limits and often crave them. They do not know where or when to stop. They often cannot tell the difference between mild risk and grave danger. They are sometimes very selfish and wilful, and will come to harm if they do not learn to control these things.

And when we ban smacking completely – as Scotland is about to do and as the rest of the country is bound to not long afterwards – we will pay a price for this. We will raise a generation which knows few limits, does not know how to behave and can sometimes only be restrained by the superior force of the State, or by being dosed with powerful and dangerous drugs. In my view, we are already paying that price.

It is part of the colossal battle that has been raging for decades between the family and the State. The State is winning. Parents once had great power. Now they have almost none. Fathers, once kings (or despots) in their own homes, have been declared officially unnecessary.

Stable, lifelong marriage vanishes from among us, scorned by our culture and the law. Step-parents, never quite the same as natural parents however hard they try, are more common than ever.

In such a world, even a well-intentioned light smack is half an inch away from accusations of abuse, the call to Childline, and the official dissolution of the family involved by police and social workers. The ‘rescued’ child is then often plunged into a dismal chaos of neglect in authority-free ‘care’.

These cases aren’t anything like those of Baby Peter or Maria Colwell. But such horror stories have been used to grant greater and greater powers to the authorities to intervene. Most of us think we approve of this change in the balance of forces. But are you sure? Since families stopped disciplining children, the State seems to me to have grown hugely in its willingness to threaten violence.

In the days of smacking, police walked around alone in tunics with no visible weapons. Now they make their rare public appearances in pairs or squads, clad in stab vests, clubs, pepper sprays and handcuffs.

Where parents are weak, all adults are weak. In the schools attended by the poor, and especially by those children who have very little family life and whose fathers are often absent, there is terrible disorder.

This is largely kept secret because nobody knows what to do about it. But it is occasionally revealed.

A little-noticed report earlier this month disclosed the huge level of school exclusions concealed by official figures. Everyone over 50 knows how much less safe and orderly our streets are now than they were.

I think these things are connected. I also think it is impossible, in the country we have become, to make a case for smacking. So I will not try to do so. But I will say there are times when civilisations have to choose between two unwelcome courses.

And we may come, in time, to regret having been quite so smug about how good and kind we thought we were in this era.

A painful reality our cops can't dodge

Police moans about ‘lack of resources’ are at last being laughed at as the selfserving propaganda they are. Good. I have tried to make this point for years, and have,as a result, been dishonestly attacked.

Nobody knows what most of the police now do, since they are largely invisible, and the sight of them last week riding round in dodgems or painting their fingernails, while tens of thousands of crimes are filed and forgotten, just adds to the feeling that we are dealing with a badly run nationalised industry which has forgotten who it serves.

The next time you hear a police spokesdrone claim they haven’t the manpower, show them this chart, which proves that they did a far better job with far fewer numbers (in total and per head) in the past.

As the numbers climbed, the service got worse. And now, the latest estimated population of England and Wales is just under 58.4 million.

Police numbers in March this year were 123,142, plus 9,826 ‘Community Support’ officers and 58,831 white-collar back-up staff.

Time for a go on the dodgems, Sergeant?

Mass murder... what a joke

A disgraceful film was released this week, in which misery, pain, fear and mass murder are milked for feeble giggles.

It is not very good on its own terms, and – like so many modern comedians – uses the f-word repeatedly to jolt the semblance of laughter from its audience, much as you might make a corpse twitch with seeming life by plugging it into the national grid.

The Death Of Stalin makes a farce out of that wholly grim and squalid event. As the monster himself lies dying, a gang of slave-drivers, secret police monsters and gruesome toadies, plus a murderous paedophile, are portrayed as a kind of Carry On farce or a Monty Python sketch. Ha ha.

Well, the only question you need to ask is whether anyone would think the final days of Hitler, the other great European mass-killer, torturer and tyrant, would make a good comedy, with Goebbels, Himmler and the rest of the Nazi elite played for laughs. No, of course not.

But fashionable showbiz persons still can’t grasp that Stalin (Left-wing) was just as evil as Hitler (Right-wing). So they can’t see that either.

Universal Debit

I do not think the Government begin to realise just how bad the new ‘Universal Credit’ benefits system is. Case after case suggests that good, honest people down on their luck are being forced into debt and made to rely on food banks by its cruel delays. ‘Universal Debit’ would be a better name, and if the Tories really don’t want Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street, they should suspend its implementation now.

If you want to comment on Peter Hitchens, click on Comments and scroll down

Share this article:

Comments

You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

JohnMacK

Sorry for the delay in my response, I was awaiting the appearance of a further question as to who should make the final decision as to what is acceptable comment in the media (press, radio, tv, blog sites). Sadly it never appeared.

PS. Do you really mean 'any' kind of opposition rather than 'some' kinds? I mean, 'any' kind might well include comments that arouse the very actions that appear to worry you.

God forbid. However this is the problem with tyranny. It either starts terrorising and assassinating any dissent or it gives rise to a violent and unpredictable response. We are in very frightening times but I'm hopeful that the result will be the rule of law and a democratic solution. However the way the establishment are crushing any form of opposition, I'm not optimistic.

Well, I suppose it was my desire to follow political change, both here and around the world, that led me to start reading the articles and debates that have appeared here over the last decade or so. My visits to the web sites of what I would describe as the outer fringes have tended to leave me unimpressed. As to Momentum, there has always been a largish number of old-style Labour voters that appear to yearn for a return to the old policies. With Corbyn's arrival as leader, they clearly saw an opportunity. I guess they have been successful, using the internet to climb aboard and influence a long-established political party that had become extremely close to its traditional opponent.

I don't know enough about the fourteen or so other groups that you mention, but I suspect many will fizzle away due to either extremist ideas or the other big detonator, internal disputes and breakaways.

And, yes, I am aware of China's presence in Africa and world events elsewhere.

Alan Thomas **is it really a movement of significance as far as the man in the street is concerned?**

It absolutely does *now*. However the time that this all started was when the Berlin Wall came down and the US was taken over by utopians. George Bush Sr's speech about a "New World Order" back in 1991. Then consider the way that Yugoslavia was balkanised in the 90's when a ceasefire was rejected with the result that Novi Sad and Belgrade were bombed even though they were defending their country from illegal invaders. After that in 2003 Wars in the Middle East which were designed to loot countries and create chaos in others. Then Ukraine in 2014 which was used to obtain the Black Sea routes and Crimea. That failed. Syria failed *but* now Africa is the next target. China and the US are on a collision course.
Consider Merkel opening the borders in 2015 which has really terrified Europe. 900 cases of terrorism opened in the last year!
Regarding the man in the street, migration has got to a stage where it's effecting us all directly. No matter how optimistically politicians spin it, we have a housing crisis, health service crisis (because of the huge number of patients) and look at how long it takes to get around owing to overcrowded trains and roads. If you want to wake up Alan I suggest reading articles and books now because the State are working to block information. Russian Television do present facts (which I have checked) and they're seen as propagandist. They're not my only source of information but they are fairly accurate. Sometimes maybe not but at least it's not total garbage like the BBC and ITV for that matter.
Regarding political movements, it's like Ukraine. Victoria Nuland wanted to isolate Russia and take Crimea which backfired which is what Hegel used to refer to as "the cunning of reason". Accusing people of "hate speech" and then removing them from public life and it is being done at an increasingly alarming rate. That will create a movement, a reactionary movement. Exactly the same thing happened in Germany in the 1930's but that's the cautionary example. When people are marginalised and bullied, especially those who are mostly truthful, they galvanise and yes there are movements, left and right. Momentum, marches against Islamic terrorism etc. These movements will grow because our political class ignore concerns and they're complacent. Add totalitarianism and it's a racing certainty that an opposition will form. I hope it's one that espouses parliamentary democracy and the *genuine* rule of law for all. Not some minority backing nonsense that favours the few. Equal law for all. As for movements, yes Alan Momentum, Football lads against extremism (lot of political movements form from sports clubs, Identity Europa etc etc etc. There are probably about 15 groups (left and right).

Sorry, but just another thought on the subject of 'the move against globalism'.

Apart from not fully understanding what is meant by globalism - mainly due to the frequent use of language that often makes use of what seems to me to be undecipherable terminology only understood by fellow travellers - is it really a movement of significance as far as the man in the street is concerned?

I understand that people are concerned about foreign workers, although in the case of nurses, care workers and refuse collectors etc, not that concerned; but in respect of low-price imported goods, I'm not sure that putting a stop to that would receive many cheers.

Which brings me to the point of asking when and how do 'mutterings' become 'movements', presumably of a political nature?

PH re 'Universal Credit' :
**** ‘Universal Debit’ would be a better name, and if the Tories really don’t want Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street, they should suspend its implementation now. ****

In the background of UC, but hardly ever mentioned, is the advisor -- and by its own boast policy-originator -- on contract to successive governments since the mid 1990s with regard to welfare, work and health related issues. It had already floated much the same agenda as would be subsequently attributed to Iain Duncan Smith.
A multinational from the USA specialising in income and health insurance, which *prior to* attaining its UK government contract had been in very serious legal trouble in America -- actually outlawed in several states -- for defrauding its customers via rigged medical assessments and false definitions.
Purnell (now head of BBC radio) and Cooper of NuLab were two key applicators of its doctrine in Britain, while IDS was supposedly formulating what became known as "Universal Credit".
UC was introduced by the Cameron regime, but might well have been inflicted anyway had Labour won the general election in 2010, since the Blairites are also guided by Unum.
It remains to be seen whether Corbyn as PM would reject UC and associated assertions based on the doctrines of Unum ... so far, as Labour leader he has not yet denounced or disowned Unum, and appears to deliberately avoid any reference to such corporate influence.
Most likely is that a Labour government, still stuffed with Blairites, would apply some window-dressing spin and superficial tweaking to the UC system, while further integrating it with the "Nudge" unit established by Cameron.

I don't know what you mean by 'quite quickly', particularly as you make no mention of our present circumstances which are likely to demand the attention of any government's attention for several years.

As to 'greed', if by that you mean the average person's inclination to buy on the basis of price and value for money. then I fear it will take more than patriotism, or, indeed, government intervention, to change our ways. Particularly if nearby countries do not follow suit, leaving UK residents to seek ways around what they may see as self-inflicted economic pain.

However, as neither of us has any clear idea as to what will come to pass perhaps we should leave this particular chat on a 'time will tell' basis.

I quoted yesterday an Indian authour Vishal Mangalwadi who gave a lecture on the significance of the education of the Bible at the House of Commons. He wrote;

’Students should become knowledgeable about the narratives and characters in the Bible so that they can better understand the multitude of references in English literature, including more than 1,200 documented references to the Bible in the 36 plays of Shakespeare.’

Mr Morrison writes after my quotation of Mr Mangalvadi’s text,

*** Students should become knowledgeable about the narratives and characters in the Bible ***

’No they should not, unless it is desirable for there to be manipulative propaganda via that channel by armageddonists (or worse) as per the USA.’

I try to respect your stance, but how can young people in the West rightly understand and judge and choose their positions without knowing *anything* from the Bible that deeply influenced and shaped the Western Civilisation, such as Law, Language, Literature, Education, Science, Morality, Family, Compassion, Economy and Liberty?

If you have objection to this statement, please be open-minded and read Mr Mangalwadi’s book - he has researched carefully several years on this issue and written more than 400 pages to argue for his thesis.

This is not about ’theocratic indoctrination’ or brain-washing but rather ’knowing one’s own roots’ especially while you are young.

Has Mr Morrison read carefully what is written just before your quoted text?

”The British law allows religious education, but religion is often a problem. There needs to be a separate effort similar to the effort in nine states in the USA to teach the Bible *academically* in schools.” (My emphases.)

I think the current regime does have a sense of the public's anger, they just don't care much about doing anything to fix it. Why would they? These career politicians are rich elites who care about living in the moment, what their next cabinet position will be, which wine to select with their next free lunch ticket and how to sure up their big pensions before the next lot arrive, working well into their seventies, buried in debt and still unable to afford their own home. They are looking ahead as far as the next election not for the future of this country. As far as spotting a potential leader goes there aren't many obvious candidates but any prospective leader should hopefully now be fully aware that anyone hoping to be the next Tony Blair best think again.

I think with the movement against globalism and the associated greed one will emerge quite quickly. The issue is the link between immigration and exploitative greed that needs to be made by more in Labour and beyond. It's happened to an extent but it needs to be more pronounced. It is disappointing that Jeremy Corbyn was going to approach this and then copped out. However he might still make the connection for the voters and that'll be the end of corporations using migrants to reduce wages which doesn't help anyone. The other scandal of stealing another country's essential health workers to ensure we can employ cheap nurses is an example of greed. The "left" and the "faaahhhhr right" (which is a nonsense label) will merge when they wake up which is under way

Ky | 25 October 2017 at 06:44 AM cited :
*** Students should become knowledgeable about the narratives and characters in the Bible ***

No they should not, unless it is desirable for there to be manipulative propaganda via that channel by armageddonists (or worse) as per the USA.
Further convergence with which is probably the ulterior objective of at least some of those who want to inflict such theocratic indoctrination. That's almost certainly what would end up happening nowadays.
Not to mention an inevitable demand for "equality" by jihadist elements....

*** so that they can better understand the multitude of references
in English literature ***

Literacy itself, plus more extensive knowledge of *their own* country's history would be far more appropriate.

Globalism is a continuation and intensification of imperialism except now it's backed by all manner of absurdity that masquerades as "human rights". Indeed the "human rights" card now justifies War more so than it ever did. Syria, Libya and Ukaine are the most recent examples of this. As for colonisation watch the wearechange video on youtube entitled "What's going on in Africa". I am sceptical of *all* media but the guy's report was verifiable through social media which included some Somalians. The Globalist regime is certainly controlled by US elites but they are not nationalists and they have similar rootless Capitalist allies in Europe and in the East. I'm not espousing socialism but I do know that there is a puppet establishment in our nation who wanted Jeremy Corbyn ousted because he wasn't going to play along. My issue is he seems to have capitulated as they all do eventually

The thing that strikes me about the smacking debate is the overblown rhetoric on both sides. The antis conflate it with beating or hitting and regard is as child abuse. This goes way beyond the 'reasonable chastisement' that the law currently allows.

Those in favour also sometimes come across as thinking that if smacking is banned western civilisation with collapse, as though it were a panacea for all the evils plaguing society.

Personally, I don't like smacking (does anyone?), but banning it will be yet another piece of state interference, and I can't help wonding if those who want to ban it have listened to too many psychobabblers who think children are little adults and whose 'self-esteem' must be maintained at all costs. Perhaps this is why we have generation snowflake.

It's hard to see how 'clinging to power' is anything new in politics, and then: 'this current regime have no sense of the public's anger'.

This, to me, is most unlikely. They certainly recognised some of the anger in the case of the new arrangements for the paying of benefits, dropping the idea of doing away with bus passes for the elderly, the housing problem, etc

Apart from that, the matter of securing reasonable terms for Brexit is, and will be for many months/years, at the top of the agenda.

What you are seeking, and the speed of its arrival, is most unlikely to catch the publics eye until a leader, with an united party behind them, arrives on the scene. And, faced with the current dog's dinner, that seems both a highly daunting challenge and a most unlikely outcome.

Perhaps a case of 'what goes around comes around'? Had this comment appeared in the mainstream media I feel it might well have resulted in many a wry response in some of our own former colonies. 'Pots and kettles' being one that comes to mind.

I mentioned about an Indian author Mr Vishal Mangalwadi and his book "The Book That Made Our World” a while ago - I hope Mr Kevin 1 remembers him at least.
Now he writes in his Facebook as follows:

SHOULD THE BIBLE BE TAUGHT IN BRITISH PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

’Sir Desmond Swayne, the Honourable Member of Parliament for New Forest West, strongly endorsed my proposal that the Bible should be taught in schools to renew Britain's soul. He reminded fellow MPs and Lords who came to hear my lecture, that Honourable Mr. Melvin Bragg, a non-Christian Member of Parliament, had been asking Christian MPs to promote teaching of the Bible to every student in British Public School.

My lecture on the Bible as "The Book That Made Our World" was held in the Portcullis House at the House of Commons. Plenty of other committee meetings were happening in different rooms in the House of Commons. Yet, seventy people attended the lecture including about 19 MPs and 25 Parliamentary staff.

Acknowledging that the Bible is the greatest gift that Britain gave to India, the Trustees of the Indian Ground Work Trust had presented to 650 MPs complimentary copies of Dr. Vishal Mangalwadi’s book, The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization.

Mr. Deepak Mahatani, representing India Ground Work Trust (IGW) IGW still needs about 1,100 Pounds to pay for these books at a specially reduced rate. (I get no royalties from this particular sale.)

The British law allows religious education, but religion is often a problem. There needs to be a separate effort similar to the effort in nine states in the USA to teach the Bible academically in schools. Students should become knowledgeable about the narratives and characters in the Bible so that they can better understand the multitude of references in English literature, including more than 1,200 documented references to the Bible in the 36 plays of Shakespeare.’

Indeed, humble pie is normally the order of the day for you. What do you make of this Labour MP who was spouting sexist and homophobic comments and then claimed he was a reformed man as his Labour chums leapt to his defence to tell us how sorry he is and what a changed man he was? Then, low and behold, we hear that only months ago he was verbally abusing a woman outside a nightclub with more of the same. Isn't this just typical of Labour MP's? They claim to be the apostles of diversity, liberal values and democracy but when it comes to the crunch we find out what they really are, the opponents of it.They say one thing in public and yet they don't actually believe in it. They only do it to gain popularity and massage their super sized egos. I think we should all be glad that this latest Harvey Weinstein has met his comeuppance.

In the 1950s there was, in the USA, a book-writing alleged child expert called Dr. Spock. His theories on how to bring them up etc. were pimped and inflicted as facts, by political correcters (in all but name) and other trendy degenerate apparatchiks, throughout the western world.
But a few years ago, he wrote another book -- in which he apologetically confessed that his previous work was almost entirely garbage unfit for human consumption.
It too was for sale, not free....

The Western Governments are currently "led" by representatives of elites and Oligarchs. The changes are happening but the powers that be will continue to interfere which is why no coherent challenge is forthcoming. This is frightening because when tyranny exists, it will cling to power and this current regime have no sense of the public's anger. The "left" and "right" paradigm is beginning to lose its attraction because people are now Globalists or Nationalists. The elites see Globalism and open borders as their dream which is to enslave and control. If change doesn't come soon I can see bad things happening

To answer your question, I struggle to think of any western government whose confidence is high in these troubled times. Possibly due to both the depth and speed of change, that is seldom far behind the speed of the technology that delivers its tidings to all and sundry.

Your guess in respect of my desire for 'peaceful and legal' transition is correct.

I note you offer no answer to my question regarding the matter of 'timing and leadership'. Even allowing for an increase in the speed of change, I would suggest we are several elections away from the transition you desire. I mean, recent events have seen the popping up and the shooting down of various future leaders that were seen, by some, as the answer to our problems. On top of that, the question of our 'problems' is, it seems, far more complicated than expected even a few months ago.

The anticipated ban on smacking is entirely consistent with so much else that I fear it is merely a matter of time before we have yet another prohibitive law. It will have been noticed by many that this dovetails nicely with the clarification of nazi politics. That the "left" and the "progressives" are the true heirs of nazism is now abundantly clear. One only has to witness the levels of hatred, anger and threatened violence from the "left wing" Momentum to know who, in contemporary politics, has re-invented Ernst Rohm's stormtroopers.

Like all "progressive" legislation, a smacking ban will be justified as something which protects a supposed victim... while doing irrepereable and lasting damage to the rest of society. I have yet to decide whether the people who propose and support this kind of idiocy are aware of how destructive they are. I once thought them simply stupid... now I begin to suspect that they knowingly unravel the social fabric. Conversation with people of this ilk usually reveals an intense and wide ranging hatred which can best be characterised as a kind of anti-nationalism.

While there is concentration on banning smacking, I do wonder how many MP's actually listen to the the verbal abuse and profanity you hear from parents when ,disciplining"? children. as I am out and about.
The kind of coarseness you hope young children won't end up repeating at school and get chastised for.
Personally I feel they are the great uneducated section of society, brought up on a diet of profanity from telly and the profanity tumbles out, with a harshness that is excessively disproportionate and more damaging to the long term development of a child.
The sight of parent who has repeated verbal and aggressive barking so often it has come to a point when it has lost it's intended reaction.
Which has to be continued because they have to use more verbal swearing and aggression and even more outlandish punishments or threats until the child then thinks he, she may as well be naughty because he gets told off the same for small misdemeanours as serious ones.
It's's often all talk, because they then buy a sweet to halt the cycle. Reinfocing the cycle that will not bode well when he or she is a teen!
I think this is far more harmful, with it's long term absorption by the child, to emulate this behaviour than an instant smack on the hand or to the back of the leg to quickly stop a risky or bad behaviour.

Last year, while walking my dog, I saw a young male parent contorting himself to try and stop a toddler from getting away from him.
I could see his exasperation and smiled and said, " We used to use reins to control little ones, while teaching them to not pull away". "Yeah, but I was listening to a comedian and he said it was like putting them on a dog's lead" he replied.
I said, "Well, I use a dog lead to keep my little dog safe and under control. Same thing really.
It also helps if they trip as can be unsteady on young feet and you can stop them hitting the path.
I'm sure as I watched him struggle, he would rather stick to the comedian's advice than mine and copy the coarse sarcastic chastisement as well.

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear on this weblog until the moderator has approved them. They must not exceed 500 words. Web links cannot be accepted, and may mean your whole comment is not published.