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Friday, February 10, 2012

"Don't blog angry!" Well, again, I am ignoring my own advice. Here we go. I will want to reword this in an hour, but I won't. Want unfiltered Sal? Well, here you go.

What confidence I once had in the SECNAV gone, broken, unable to be supported. I was a fool to give him the benefit of the doubt. This is the last straw.

Small things do matter - as they often support much larger and critical things.Ship names mean nothing anymore. The vacuousness, vapidity, and morally rudderless nature of our present leadership is out there clear as day for all to see. I don't even think they know it.

Naming a ship after that bucket of goo MURTHA was bad enough. Rep. Giffords (D-AZ) was/is a fine public servant and her husband is a Navy astronaut. She was shot in the head by an insane person. None of the above rate having a Navy ship named after you. Announced on a Friday afternoon - I think even the Navy is ashamed of this classic case of immature pandering to the Overclass.

In yet another break with tradition, Navy Secretary Ray Mabus announced Friday that a new Littoral Combat Ship would be named for Gabrielle Giffords, the Arizona congresswoman who survived a January 2011 assassination attempt.

“The selection of Gabrielle Giffords, designated LCS 10, honors the former Congresswoman from Tucson, Arizona, who is known for supporting the military and veterans, advocating for renewable energy and championing border security,” the Navy said in a statement accompanying the announcement.

Forget that LCS are supposed to be named after medium sized cities; forget the legion of Navy and Marine Corps heroes who don't even have a head named after them.Just put this in your mental file whenever you need proof that we are being led by crass, cynical, narcissistic Brahmins who care for nothing but their own selfish interest.Shame on our Navy leadership for this, and I hate to say it - but the right move would have been for Rep. Giffords to decline this honor - others have deserved it so much more.Shame. Shame. Shame.Those who pinged on me in the past for my giving the benefit of the doubt to SECNAV - I now admit you were right and I was wrong. I apologize to you.When rumors first hit me about this at dawn - I did not believe them. Even 'ole Sal could not believe that his Navy could be such a whore to petty, political, feel-good desires of the unworthy. Yes I went there.

I mad at myself for my confidence in an institution that I love - evidently I love it more than it loves its own heroes and history.UPDATE: Kristina Wong over at the WashTimes has a bit on it ... and lookie who she quotes.

I agree with Sal, but it's a two way street in my opinion. We celebrate naming CVN's after living, or recently deceased, presidents (Reagan, Bush, Ford) whom most conservatives admire. But, it was bound to happen that liberals would want to name ships after their "heros" once they got into a position to do so.

It is a slipery slope. Oh to return to the days of naming capital ships as we did in the past (Enterprise, Lexington, Yorktown, ....)

Being a US Navy vet (from the mid-1990s when no one cared about military service) and a History major...I am embarassed by Today's naming of US Warships. A once proud Naval Tradition has become nothing but shameful, pathetic 'politcal graffiti'...SHAME on any & all US Navy officers/staff who are meekly going along with this

Ships names should connect their sailors to our Naval Heritage...I served on the USS O'Callahan FF-1051,she was named for LCDR O'Callahan, MoH, the Chaplain of the USS Franklin CV-13.Father O'Callahan's shipmate, LT Gary, MoH, was an engineering officer on the Franklin.It was my honor to meet the survivors of the Franklin, and to listen to their stories of how Fr O'Callahan and/or Lt Gary saved their ship.

What is the message given to the sailors on a ship named for a politican?

poor woman, first being shot and then having LCS named after her...I wouldnt want to have LCS named after me regardless of my status :Pand I think LCS wouldn't survive being shot in such good condition :P

The Navy and naval traditions mean nothing to the group of clowns currently in charge. Mabus is a complete disgrace, but that is not news. Halfwit signed off on the disgusting decision to name a ship after Murtha. I was disgusted by the USS Murtha, but am just saddened by this stupid act.

No, they've started the jokes on Yahoo already..... it's not too soon apparently. (I'm a lady, so I won't say the word someone called the ship, but he referred to it as a [rhymes with "littoral"] Combat Ship.)

This is a farce. Pandering is a charitable way to describe it. If I get shot by a satan-worshipping lunatic do I get a ship named after me too?

Ewok said it more charitably than I wanted to, so I'll just stop ranting.

@Marvin, We've named ships after politicians (Frank Knox, Charles F. Adams, Sam Raborn, etc.) for quite some time. Heck, we've even named a ship after a fictional place...USS SHANGRI-LA. However in most of those cases those politicians had some important connection with the Navy.

Your point, however, is well taken since there are plenty of names of true naval heroes available for use in an era of declining force levels. This smacks of partisonism that should embarass even the most committed Democrat.

Nothing this clown of a SecNav does surprises me anymore. Anyone willing to wager against the commissioning of the USS Nancy Pelosi sometime this decade. Now if that didn't motivate you to vote Republican in 2012 nothing will.

If the Republicans were worth there salt they would either remove the naming rights from the secnav for duration of the obama presidencey or cut funding from LCS-10. Anyway Its another ship ill be adding to my "happy to see scraped" list.

Embarrassing. Please, SECNAV, have some class and let our adversaries recover from their continuous, gutbusting laughter from time to time. Then again, maybe I'm the dummy and what our seniors are really after is Confuse a Cat?

Why does absolute power in the naming of navy ships rest soley in the hands of the SECNAV?Not that there should be congressional hearings on the naming of ships but there needs to be some oversight in instances such as this.

Please, knock off the indignation. The person most hurt by this is poor Gabby Giffords. She was shot in the head while serving her nation and is as worthy as any of the people destroyers were named after. She served and was shot for it. She's as good as any of the male politicians we named destroyers for. I would be proud to sail on the USS Gabrielle Giffords (DD-1014).

But, to have your name slapped on this crappy unarmed jet ski?! Please. It was bad enough to shoot her; we don't have to insult the poor woman.

Have to laugh...turned to this Blawg as soon as I read the news... I just knew the good Commander Sal would be on top of this, with his love of all things LCS.What a JOKE ! Can only hope the LCS gets canned before we get to Hull 10.

I am utterly speechless. Although, I got a good laugh out of the *rhymes with littoral.* I suppose we could look on the bright side and be happy the ship isn't named for that great Navy hero, Capt. Holly Graf. Or perhaps I speak to soon....

How long have we been a nation? Two hundred years? How many Americains have served in the Congress? Don't we get five or six hundred every two years? That would be thousands upon thousands of brave, honest, and decent people have served as members of congress. They are drawn from our ranks, go to our schools, live in our neighborhoods. They are black, white, christian and jew.

Congress reflects America. So, if you think they are scum; you hate America.

Put down the teabaggs and take off the tri-corner hat. Love your neighbor. Smile, be happy.

Dude, if you are unable to see that this decision stinks like Political Correctness gone stark ravingly insane, you are part of the problem.

Congress reflecting America? That may have been so, but not anymore. Congress is reflecting America's decline. As one fellow blogger put it a couple of years back, the democrats are full blooded socialists and the republicans reluctant socialists.

Go on putting your head in the sand and cheering this nonsense boy. Your country is slipping down a very slippery slope.

Thousands of people who have sold out the american people time after time.

Another assenine attempt to shut the conversation down.

No we dont get another 5 or 6 hundred every 2 years most have been voted there and stay why? Because the american people are to damned lazy to look anywhere beyond what they are told to. Because actucally trying to figure out politics makes people feel bad....cant have that poor little souls.

BTW i'm not a teaparty guy. I'm more of a Federalist.

Only a moron could write "That would be thousands upon thousands of brave, honest, and decent people have served as members of congress." What fucking congress have you been looking at?

Sorry phib if i seem pissed but im not getting payed today because my job requires lots of lifting and hard ass work...............forgive me if i dont feel bad for some p%%%y a$$ congress critter who just simpers for votes.

Really? Name some. For every outlier you might find, I'll rattle off a hundred that were named for a decorated military veteran whose service spanned decades, or who died in battle.

Destroyers and Frigates traditionally and should be named with the intent of recognizing the accomplishments and sacrifices of those who actively and conspicuously served the nation during wartime. Naming a warship for a three-term House Member out of pity isn't appropriate.

Wow, I had no thought that somehow Secretary Mabus could lower the bar any further. Representative Giffords is deserving of respect and admiration, the same I hold for all wounded vets and Law Enforcement Officers injured in the line of duty. But, really? He now lives in the Gutter of Infamy with John Dalton and the Carter-Administration SECNAV who asked at his first in-brief for an explanation as to why Navy carrier aircraft needed those tailhook thingy's. (reported to me by an eye witness)

The modern trend to "emotional" ship naming began with the FDR and quickly slid downhill from there.

Absolutely nothing against the Representative, but the first question I asked those returning from the ceremony: other than the recent shooting, what has made her notable enough to earn a ship named in her honor? Honorable service to our country in the House, but still - no good answers.

Adding to the professionalism of this event, reportedly, the poster of the ship and name was unveiled upside-down (but quickly righted).

Why? USS Coughlin will be a part of the Patsy Schroeder-class green-powered submarines. They don't carry any weapons, but their hulls are a revolutionary design that incorporates the latest in streamlined technology. The submarines are designed to run on batteries for months.

There is a rumor that the hull after USS Paula Coughlin will be USS Barney Frank.

If anyone has the idea of changing the name of USS JOHN MURTHA to something like the places that LPD-17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, or 25 are named after,

then, you better hurry ! LPD-26 is well along in the fabrication stage and the USS JOHN MURTHA will shortly have the keel laid and commence erecting all the many modules presently all lined up inside the Ingalls yard, ready to be assembled. After the formal ceremony to lay the keel in a few weeks, it will be too late to change the name of LPD-26.

Mike, you forgot the USS John F. Kennedy, and the USS Jimmy Carter, not to mention USS Theodore Roosevelt*. It's not all conservatives. Teddy was a full-blown Progressive by the time he ran as the Bull Moose candidate.

A large number of people respected (or admired) all three of the men you mentioned have publicly said those were poor choices for names, which can hardly be called "celebrating" those christenings.

*Teddy actually got a twofer, since he also had an SSBN named after him as well.

Well - I suppose the USS James Brady isn't far behind, and given the robust armament on the class, it would probably be more appropriate. Seriously, nothing against the former Congresswoman, but this is just beyond the pale. Too P.O.'d for much in the way of coherent thought on this tonight - maybe tomorrow, but I doubt it.w/r, SJS(who now is beginning to doubt he'll see another Enterprise in his lifetime after CVN-65 goes away...)

WTF....With all the ladies and men that go into harm's way knowing that someone will shoot at them or blow them up and then are duly obliged, can't we find one of them to name a ship after? I feel badly for what happened to Congresswoman Giffords and her family and would not wish that on anyone but those are risks that nearly everyone of us take all the time.

Can't we save the naming of ships for those who have volunteered to go into harms way and whilst there display courage and valor in the face of adversaries? Congresswoman Giffords I would have a lot more respect for you if you had declined this and asked that the ship be named in honor of a female veteran who had died in combat over the last ten years. This so smacks of politics it makes me ill. I can hardly wait for a new administration. Be ashamed of yourselves, very ashamed. You should know the difference between a victim and a hero. Ships should be for heroes.

Going off course for a second...you don't think the "real" sports like football and baseball aren't whoring themselves out? How much do you think Nike paid the NFL to get the swoosh on their shoulders? Well, NASCAR is the same, except that each "team" has to fight to get sponsors to help pay the estimated $25 million it takes to field a Cup team for a year. It's an expensive sport and a drivers ability to run well translates into better sponsors. The way the sponsors get their advertising value back? Simple, decals on the cars, the fire suits and the driver himself mentioning the sponsor on air. It's a business necessity.

Here is my view--which can be wrong, freely admitted--on some posssible motivating factors behind this absolutely inappropriate decision--and it is inappropriate. On that I have no doubts. And the gist of my theory is that this naming is nothing but political 'chess' in action--specifically trying to position a piece so that no matter what the opponent does, he loses something.

If the GOP fights this naming in any way, they can be attacked for 'attacking' and 'dishonoring' the nice lady who got shot. If they don't fight it, then the nice lady who got shot and who is a 'heroic Democratic' gets some official American credit as a hero--a raising to secular sainthood, as it were. (Of course, the Bush-appointed judge who actually died that day gets nothing much). The practical benefit of the second is that it might help retain Gifford's soon-to-be-vacant House seat, because the presumptive GOP challenger has enough of a bio to counter the Gifford's sympathy effect. In fact, I will go as far to say that if Martha McSally had not chosen to run, if the GOP candidate was a more easily beatable 'pasty white guy', this naming might not have happened.

The effect of the GOP not fighting it might also serve to demoralize some supporters, which is always a plus. The decision, if left to stand, also logically seems to expand the envelope for what those in power might be able to do to as far as their ability to bestow honors and prestige in the future. Twenty to thirty years from now, who knows where it could lead. Today we can only give you an ambassadorship if you are a big bundler. In a generation, if you donate enough, you might be able to get a warship named after you. This, overall, then seems like it is one of those seemingly "hanged if you do, hanged if you don't" moves. As I said--political chess.

So does this mean I think this is all crass politics of a petty tactical sort? I have no reason not to think that, and it fits the facts. Doesn't mean it is the way it went down. And do I think that America is in danger of starting to be ran like it is nothing but a single-party inner urban area (say something like, oh, I don't know, Chicago), where all the elements of state are at the disposal of the establishment for use in the maintaining of power? Well, it might not take too much arm-twisting to get me there, let's say that.

Overall, I can't say I could see Ernie King going along with this move made today. But hey, changing times, changing defiinitions of what 'tough' is, I suppose.

The linked story talks about Hospital Corpsman 1st Class Holly Crabtree (and her sister, who's a Staff Sgt in the Army). She was on patrol with an Army Civil Affairs unit attached to a Special Operations Force in Iraq.

She was shot in the left side of the head by a sniper and nearly died in service to our country. She also wants to stay on active duty.

As an amplifier--when I said "hanged if you do, hanged if you don't", I meant if you were the opposition.

As an addition--both the Murtha and Giffords namings cheapen the honor of having a United States warship named after you. If the main criteria of ship naming is how useful the name is to some politician's agenda or getting a budget passed, and that appears to be increasingly the case, then at some point I would think a person of integrity would turn it down if they were alive and knew it was coming (or tell their survivors before they died).

A nation and a service can make an honor dishonorable if they cheapen it. So it seems with ship names.

Here is my nominee...LT Florence Choe...killed in AFG by insurgent feigning to be Afghan Soldier. Filipino Master Chief Dad, one of the many great great sailors to come to us via Subic Bay...Family is Navy through and through. She is plenty good enough for me...

Let the inner voice rip - it IS your porch. Murtha's name should have been attached to an oily nasty reef, not a US warship. Combined with Gabby, we have leadership by pandering and politicizing, which is a d@mn shame.

I respect Rep. Giffords and wish her the best.Name a post office or federal building for her, that would be appropriate and a fitting honor and remembrance.

There should be stars on the SECNAV/SECDEF table over this incident which confirms the tawdry hack political activities which are now passed off as "leadership" by the Commander in Chief, the Secretary of Defense, and the Secretary of the Navy.

It is bad enough that the "leadership" are even wasting boatloads of cash to build any of these worthless LCS floating death traps. It is worse that they are building a lot of them, and counting them as "warships." It totally unfathomable why they would name one after Rep. Giffords. The only answer is cheap partisan politics.

The only acceptable solution is to stop all construction on these scows. But, if they must, at least have a shred of respect and decency and give our ships proper NAVAL names. Not wounded politicians, or corrupt politicians, or corrupt Marxist labor bosses.

Victor- You flat do not know what you are talking about:"<span> She's as good as any of the male politicians we named destroyers for"</span>

There has never been a destroyer named after a male politician. Go check out the names, one by one, and read the histories of their namesakes. Not politicians, but real heroes. Military heroes, Navy and Marine Corps heroes. All of them.

GIffords is a nice lady, an honorable member of Congress from what I have seen (and that is a rather small group of the 435) and she got wounded by a nut case. Nothing in that resume qualifies her as worthy of having a warship named after her.

The Navy has no self love. Definitely that girl that slept around with everybody, had daddy issues, wanted everybody to love them and cared not a bit for what was really important. Shame on you navy, shame!

She is being used as a political prop. Everybody capable of knowing it knows it. She is no longer the same person she used to be and it makes me sick to see her taken advantage of for political gain. Her husband should protect her instead of letting this horrible tabloid episode continue on unabated.

Ford may not have been elected to a higher office than Representative, but he DID serve as President during trying times, and more importantly, had a very strong connection to the Navy, as did GHW Bush. Heck, you can make a stronger case for Ford than for Reagan, who served in the Army.

Yeah, a well-known signer of the Declaration of Independence who had been dead for 180 years. I can see how that explains naming a United States warship after a living three-term Congresswoman. Very convincing. EVERY other Spruance followed the traditional (military veteran / hero) naming convention.

I didn't like the USS FORD name, either. Although his naval service was distinguished, he was an unelected half-term President who did nothing of any particular positive significance while in office. That doesn't seem enough to get a new aircraft carrier class named after you. I would much rather have had another Franklin D. Roosevelt.

What do you want to bet that we're going to get a USS OBAMA (CVN - XX) announced sometime before our current fearless leader leaves office?

AHEM. Cdr, there's something else I've been aware of for quite some time but didn't judge important enough to bring it up.

It must have been the gazillionth time I have had to read or hear - from you too, amongst others - that Congresswoman Giffords is an outstanding public servant. So massive was this barrage of positive evaluations that I started to wonder why on earth I had never heard from her before she was shot.

I also wondered if it could be true what she asked of Gen Petraeus, because I thought that if indeed, she had posed such utterly irrelevant questions from a general with a battlefield command, it probably couldn't be true otherwise there would be much more coverage from rightwing sites.

But... it appears to be true after all.

I quote:

<span>Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-Az) took Afghan Commander, General David Petraeus, to task for what she characterized as "willful disregard of the environmental impact of our war effort." "There is no policy, no plan to minimize carbon emissions in our military activities," Giffords charged. "Bombs are dropped and bullets are fired without considering the environmental impact." Giffords insisted that she was "not demanding an immediate halt to current military operations in the Middle East. I'm just saying that battle plans should include an environmental impact assessment as a regular part of the process before attacks are launched."</span><span></span><span></span><span>Hey, seriously... WHY ON EARTH is Giffords so outstanding CDR?</span><span></span><span>Frankly, I'm not at all impressed with her to say the least, and in this way the naming of a ship that is a deadborn concept sucking a tremendous lot of resources with it into the drainhole after a ridiculous Congresswoman...</span><span></span><span>... even makes sense to me.</span><span></span><span>The right name for the wrong ship.</span><span></span><span>It would have been FAR WORSE if this LCS had been named after, say, McMahan. Or whatever.</span>

I will say she is not a hero. She is a victim, and has shown great strength in her recovery. But a hero? As opposed to guys jumping on grenades, lifting up burning ammo cans and throwing them overboard, or the Marines we have that are incredibly burned pulling their fellow Marines out of burning HMMVs and such? There are other things we can do to honor her. Hell, let's have Congress actually pass a budget. Now THAT is an honor! It seems almost impossible, as it has been over 1000 days.

I expect that her husband the astronaut wants to go back to space again, as most astronauts do. He's not going to pee in the roses just to make a point. Besides that, he's been way from the Navy so long he's probably forgotten what "haze grey and underway" means.

Boogity Boggity Boogity :) Someone asked on a radio show, "whats the best two months of sport?". I said October and November: you have the college football season shaping up to see who the championship players will be, the same for the NFL, and the crazy, git 'er done end of the NASCAR season. I have to buy new batteries for the remote every year because of it :)

Actually, much prefer USS America. And while there will be the LHA-6 named after her, I think most agreee that name would have been better on the CVN then say, oh I dunno, Bush or Ford, Vinson.

<span>As hor Hamcock, Founding Father meebee? There have bee a few others named after founding fathers or monumental leaders of this country - long after they are gone. Franklin, Hamilton, Washinton, Lincoln - trend?</span>

This Secretary of the Navy says he respects the Sailors and Marines he is sworn to serve, but it is painfully clear that his trend with naming ships is about his future political desires. Shame on you Secretary Mabus. Naming ships for politicians and personal friends for personal gain is beyond the pale.

D-AZ. That's why. Mabus is a disgrace. Yet, I wonder if ol' Hooper, who was all greased up for him a couple years ago, will ever admit that every doubt expressed about the guy was spot-on. Somehow I doubt it.

I was in favor of neither the FORD nor BUSH, as they simply were not of the "all-time great" stature needed for a capital ship. Nor would I have been in favor of the VINSON or STENNIS, for the same reason. For each of them, it should have been a destroyer, or if not of sufficient honor, nothing (perhaps a cruiser, if we built cruisers anymore--which as an aside, is what I think the Burkes really are. Main combat units able to give a punch and take one (to some extent)).

The only President left who doesn't have a carrier who has the stature is John Adams. Jefferson has issues, Grant was not a particularly great President, Wilson has some baggage about suppression of rights in war and had some issues with the Navy because of his SecNav and the elmination of the wine mess (not that the opinions of sailors, institutional or otherwise, matters anymore these days. We just serve), Jackson has the Indian removal issue. James Madison would be good, though he can be attacked as a slave-owner. Benjamin Franklin would be a heroic choice, and would also recognize the WWII ship of that name. Hamilton does not have the stature necessary. Monroe is too obscure and was also a slaveowner. John Paul Jones would be a decent decision.

Any of the above names would have been, from a statecraft and a national spirit perspective, better than the first four I named. We do not seem to have a very good political class anymore able to look beyond their immediate or mid-term political concerns. At least SHANGRI-LA had a connection to the Doolittle Raiders, and FDR actually loved the Navy, truly loved it.

You have got to be kidding ? I hope Petraeus answered by explaining that the only impact he cares about is ordnance on target. Where is Navy Leadership on this ? Oh yea, those stars don't want to upset anyone.

Kristen, DB and ladies of Phib land, I apologize now for what I am about to say...

WHAT THE FUCK!!???????????????????????

SO the ONLY freaking criteria is that you are a VICTIM of a crime and you can get a ship named after you? Really??? This is an attempt by the LEFT under the American hating Shultz-Wasserman, to USE the poor former Congresswoman as a TOOL in the fight against the Second Amendment. The result will be a plaque on the quarterdeck describing her deeds and instead of learning about how a medic saved marines, or how a young man jumped on a grenade to save his friends, a future plankowner or crewmember will learn how GIFFORDS was a victim that day and how bad guns are... really?? REALLY??? WTF!!!</span>

I was trying in my mind to create a most absurd idea for ship name, and here we go:USS Lee Harvey Oswald. Democrats would love his leftists adventures in Russia, Republicans would love him for shooting the Kennedy, he was shooting victim as Rep. Giffords, and he was a Marine once like Murtha... /sarcasm off

<span> </span>Someone made the interesting point that politicians are just like us. Then some crazy tea-party nut went off on President Ford not being worth of having a ship named after him.

<span> </span>Read Buckner F. Melton Jr.'s "Sea Cobra." The USS Monterey (CVL-26), was on fire in a typhoon. Lt. Ford lead the fire brigade that battled the blaze, for over five hours and saved his ship.

Neglect of the Navy. Jefferson took the funds that could have enlarged the small but capable force Adams began and squandered them on coastal defense gun-rowboats. Because he considered those rowboats politically suitable for a country of farmers.

<span>IF</span> you are going to go with political figures, Adams, Franklin, and Madison are preferred. Personally, I'd stick to the old tradition. Enterprise. Hornet. Yorktown. Lexington. Saratoga. Names rich in tradition and honor.

Personally, I think there needs to be a mass renaming with the new Administration. Flush <span>ALL</span> the recent political names. Including ships already in commission. I can see Reagan and Theodore Roosevelt. Franklin Roosevelt, maybe. But the commandeering of ship names for political eye-poking must be stopped, and the damage reversed.

I think there was a political coincidence that the carrier class was named after President Ford in the days right before his death. Leading a fire brigade during typhoon is commendable and certainly worthy of an award, but hardly qualifies one for having a class of aircraft carriers named after him.

If that were the case, then as Repair 5 locker leader having fought progressive flooding in Enterprise for 18 hours after hitting Bishop's Rock or fighting a stubborn fire in MarDet berthing immediately adjacent to their ammo lockers should ensure that at least the next class of Captain's Gigs gets named after me.

Face it Men. The entire pentagon leadership, uniformed and civilian, is no better than a gang of post Civil War Carpetbaggers. The suits are all political, the unifroms seem to have all lost their pole stars.

The smell that is rising to the rooftop wil l persist so long as we all shall live. It took at least 50 years to arrive t this point.

Who do you know who is an honest partiotic seaman or aviator who has learned the ropes at sea ? There can't be many.

Okay, jerk, I'm one of those types who don't like the FORD naming, and it is because of exactly as I said--the life of Gerald Ford was an honorable one, but that life rates a destroyer and not a capital ship. Your opinion may vary, but the way I see it you have got no cause to start calling people names just because they disagree with what you suppose is your brillance.

Being a real victim of a PC skyline crime is one thing, but being a pretend victim of a PC skyline crime is the best of all. Which is why we need a USS Paula Coughlin. Let's kick out the jams once and for all, Ray, get thing going fully in the direction to which you are "leading" us and power her with a pretend PC skyline fuel made from algae. :-D

I am going to add that, based on a quick Wikipedia and Naval Historical Center check, Lieutenant Ford did not even recieve a medal for his actions abord MONTEREY. I presume he got a Letter of Comm or some such other. Not having access to any other information. I have got to say that it seems to me that calling folks "dirtbag" when they don't support your belief that an action that didn't even get a medal at the time is somehow sufficent justification--by itself--for not only a carrier naming, but is such a wonderful justification so as to allow any and all who oppose it to be treated with whatever contempt you choose--well, pal, at some point I just need to conclude that you are a political hack trying to spin the issue so the GOP does not look bad.

Just because one becomes President of the United States does not automatically mean one deserves to have much of anything named after you, much less a carrier, much less a carrier class. At least, not automatically.

If ANY uniformed officer he mentioned it to failed to tell him in terms as clear and understandable as MTH or DB, they are as complicit and guilty and stupid as Mabus is.

I belive that USN ships have had their names changed on occasion in the past, and we can only hope that the precedent will be followed to rid the fleet of political names and restore something actually naval, traditional and respectable.

Jackson was actucally agaisnt the indians removal. It was the next president after him who did it. He was of the mind as long as they agree'd to respect the laws and constitution of the US that they could stay as any other citizen. After he was out they were screwed over by the next guy.

Of course many cherrokee and such simply funneled back to the south and live here today.

The israelies had the right to do what they did. The US was cozy with the Egyptians, the liberty was a spy vessel, the israeli people are the same who not to long before got screwed over repeatedly by the US among basicly every other country on earth when in need. Their country is small enough that they could all die in a day.

They have no time to breath, no space to manuver, they are surrounded by people who want to kill them and now a american spy vessel is monitoring their transmissions and actions and possibly supplying information to a group of people who want to kill them all.

I've heard the recordings of the pilots......they are freaking out....but you know what they did what they had to because at the end of the day the deaths of a million israelies was nothing to the assholes in washington.

They chose their nation and family above another that has repeatedly screwed over and betrayed their friends. I'd have done the same damn thing. And so would you if it was your people...........or atleast i hope to go you would have.

I can see Kennedy. The man had to FIGHT to go to war. First with his father who wanted him to stay home him and his brother. The with the army who wouldnt take him because of a back injury.Then he saves a man by carrying him on his back when his ship was destroyed..still with a back injury.

Now in civilian life he might have been a peice of shit he had it where it mattered when it mattered.

<span><span><p>From 1949 through 1965, U.S. aid to Israel averaged about $63 million per year, over 95% of which was economic development assistance and food aid. From 1971 to the present, U.S. aid to Israel has averaged over $2.6 billion per year, two-thirds of which has been military assistance.</p><p> </p></span></span><p><span><span></span></span></p><p><span>Source: </span>

If the VFW Magazine people still had the article online, I'd link to the story I wrote about this in 2007. There is no question this was a deliberate attack, and that Israel knew it was shooting up an American ship. One of the survivors told me they had a massive American flag on board, that the low flying planes could not have missed. One of the flight leaders later apologized, I think, but it infurates me that some people still go along with the fiction that it was just a big mistake. It was a mistake, alright - but one that was carried out with deliberation.

The attack on the Liberty was deliberate and their was no reasonable excuse for it. It was done to keep secret that the Israelis were massing to take the Golan Heights. Israel feared that the Russians would intercept radio traffic from Liberty and notify the Syrians. I had the pleasure of a long conversation with CDR Ennis in 1986 and there was no doubt in his mind that the attack was premeditated. The Israeli gunboats circled the disabled ship and machine gunned the waterline as they circled. All the while a large US flag was flying. Israel still has to answer for this war crime. They have a right to exist and along with that right their are responsibilities. Johnson, McNamara, and the rest of that train wresck will all continue to rot in hell for what they did to those crewmen on the Liberty.

James, I think you are entirely out of line on this subject and I will agree to disagree with you.

“How will the Navy name its ships in the future? It seems safe to say that the evolutionary process of the past will continue; as the Fleet itself changes, so will the names given to its ships. It seems equally safe, however, to say that future decisions in this area will continue to demonstrate regard for the rich history and valued traditions of the United States Navy.“