I'm usually an eternal optimist on all things relating to Cleveland professional sports, but the McCoy incident was the final straw. The grownups need to step in and restore order immediately.

If I'm not mistaken, the Walrus said some time ago that an offensive coordinator will be hired after the season. And representatives from both the NFL and the Player's Association are in town to investigate the decision to send McCoy back into the game less than four minutes after he was knocked unconscious. I'm sure changes will be made to ensure that protocol is strictly followed from now on. Like for example, not letting players who were unconscious a minute before decide whether they're fit to go back in.

FWIW, the players are still going all out as evidenced by the goal line stand and the fact that they were in a position to take the lead in Pittsburgh late in the game. Shurmur may be over his head but he hasn't lost the players...yet. Nobody is mailing it in, so I credit him for that.

The eternal optimist in me is still hoping that the events of this season will shake the Walrus out of his lethargy to the point where he takes decisive action. Hire an experienced OC for starters - an offensive version of Dick Jauron. Someone who will go along with the commitment to the WCO but shape it to the talent on hand rather than use the square peg/round hole approach. Use the draft picks to add speed and playmakers on both sides of the ball. Use the abundant cap space to do more than sign other teams' backups like Usama Young and Dmitri Patterson. (I'm OK with those players as depth, but if the Browns want to get serious about winning they need follow Ozzie Newsome's approach and sign difference makers like Anquan Boldin.)

Prosecutor wrote:FWIW, the players are still going all out as evidenced by the goal line stand and the fact that they were in a position to take the lead in Pittsburgh late in the game. Shurmur may be over his head but he hasn't lost the players...yet. Nobody is mailing it in, so I credit him for that.

Have to at least give him this, as much as I dont like the guy.

Team is playing harder at this time this season than they were last season.

This article was dead on concerning both Holmgren and the approach to this April's draft. Holmgren needs to step up and do what he has been paid well to do, build a winning franchise. It starts with a coach that has had success in the NFL, not some up and coming coordinator that for this team turns out to always be a disaster. As far as the draft, I could not agree more. The Browns have 2 first round picks and high 2nd and 3rd round picks. This team has so many holes, Luck or RG3 will not fill them all. This team needs WR, TE, OL, LB, etc. and trading away multiple picks to move up a few spots is not the solution. Great article.

Brownsnation - did you mean TE or something else? Surely with Watson, Moore, Smith, and that dude we took last year we are OK at TE, right?

I tend to agree. I want RG3. I want him really really bad. But, while I understand the rational for trading up a few spots to make sure we get him I always cringe a little bit. I'm so leary of trading picks. I think I'd like to roll the dice and hope he falls, which he probably will unless someone trades in front of us to get him. But as of now that's a risk I'm willing to take. I may be copnvinced otherwise, it's a long time until April.

What I want to hear starting right now is that the Browns love Colt. That he's our guy. We are in no way shape or form in the market for a QB in this draft. We like Kalil, or Blackmon, or some stud LB. Nothing to see here. Please move along.

no I meant a TE, Watson is getting up there in years, Moore is not a great blocker,and the young TE from USC is a project and we know how those turn out in Cleveland. I meant a balanced TE that can be an everydown TE. However, WR's are needed in a bad way. How can this team roll out the worst WR crew on an annual basis. However Little does have some upside, but that is about it. Agreed with the view that this team stand firm and hold on to all the picks they have this year

I don't want to turn this into a draft thread, but I was on NFL.com today and they had six "experts" listing their Pro Bowl teams. All of them had at least two WR's from the AFC North; A.J. Green, Mike Wallace, and Antonio Brown were the picks. And then there's Jerome Simpson, Anquan Boldin, and Torrey Smith to consider. This is really becoming a passing league and a passing division.

Four quarterbacks are on pace to throw for more than 5,000 yards this season and possibly all of them could surpass Dan Marino's single-season record. That's why I wouldn't mind it if the Browns took a Patrick Peterson clone with their first pick. A.J. Green and Antonio Brown burned them for big gains late the last two games, both of which clinched the win for their teams. Peterson has returned four kicks for TDs this year. Rather than trade up for a QB, I agree we should take the biggest impact player that falls to us, but it has to be somebody with mad speed.

I know we're 31st in run defense, but teams aren't scoring a lot of points running the ball. You can run the ball down the field, but it's tough to punch it in from the red zone, even inside the 5-yard line. The Browns run defense has been excellent inside the 10. Besides, there are no outside linebackers listed in the top 25 players on NFLDraftScout's board.

I'm very pessimistic about this FO. Heckert in his last press conference was asked about an OC in 2012. He said it would be something they would "visit" but it's not necessarily going to happen. He said not hiring an OC wasn't a mistake. The last 3 rookie HC with out OC's all went to the play offs...blah...blah...blah.

By the way, Holmgren clearly wants to kill several members of the press. Almost accused a few of them of hoping they would fail. Major impression that he so doesn't like having to deal with this aspect (which would explain his seclusion). My guess is that in the same boat next year, he bails.

a.) first off, it's not the media's job to be your own pr service. They have every damn right to call a spade a spade. The team sucks mike, the coach sucks, and the QB is mediocre. Don't tap dance around it. Either fix it so those are not an issue, or continue to hear from the media and how they're ripping you apart.

b.) If I'm a fan, why the fuck should I give you the benefit of the doubt on this one? again, this team has made the Mangini coached teams looked competent and almost like Super Bowl contender. The play calling is atrocious, the coach doesn't know what he's doing, and were stuck yet again in top ten draft position.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Oh, I don't know. That press conference was 1000x more entertaining than Pat Shurmur mumbling. I wish we had video, Holmgren is a big guy, those reporters were probably taking steps backwards while still asking their questions with quaking voices.

Also, I don't how many guys the training staff was treating at the time and they could have been short handed.

But they don't watch the football. Read the 'Game Day' version of ESPN the Mag on the Titans/Steelers game when Andre Johnson goes gimpy. They know he's hurt before he hits the ground and they are schooled to watch behind the ball, behind the play and at knee/hip level on every play.

Why? So they can recognize injuries asap as well as the potential mechanism of injury whether it be twisting, cleat stuck, collision, fall, etc.

The staff fucked this up. That's it. I said it Monday; they treated the hand and missed the bigger issue somehow, some way. And it's a huge deal because there is a relationship betoween players and trainers that's vital in terms of honesty and confidence.

When I was there Leo Murphy was about dead and Bill Tessendorf was the head trainer.

Mark Smith was his assistant trainer and he was a cock. The players would get treatment from Smith but wouldn't talk to him. They'd go first to Murphy and next to Tessendorf (who I don't think they completely trusted yet compared to Murphy).

Smith would wrap younger guys ankles and tend to them but no one voluntarily went to his table because they didn't trust him. It still happens out there.

Triple-S wrote:playing the "You're either with us or against us" quote at the media?

fucking really?

a.) first off, it's not the media's job to be your own pr service. They have every damn right to call a spade a spade. The team sucks mike, the coach sucks, and the QB is mediocre. Don't tap dance around it. Either fix it so those are not an issue, or continue to hear from the media and how they're ripping you apart.

b.) If I'm a fan, why the fuck should I give you the benefit of the doubt on this one? again, this team has made the Mangini coached teams looked competent and almost like Super Bowl contender. The play calling is atrocious, the coach doesn't know what he's doing, and were stuck yet again in top ten draft position.

#c.): VARIOUS OTHER LOUD NOISES!!!!!

If you're so embittered by the years of losing that you can't give a new regime more than a year to turn things around, maybe it's time you stopped watching.

1.) It shouldn't have taken you this long to be in contact with the press, Mike. Want to re-assure us about the plan and that you're not just blowing this off for a huge cash rake in? Give us a few pressers and show physically being in Berea. We have an owner that'd rather spend time chilling in Birmingham, England. That's fine, so long as we have you acting as pretty much the acting owner of this team. That's what you are.

2.) Man up, and admit Shurmer was a mistake, and let him go. No one's going to hold it against you that you were wrong, nor will anyone care. Just take care of business and get some competency at that position. Keep Jauron there as DC, and we can start over on the offensive side with a real LEADER as a head coach.

3.) Would the press honestly being slanting articles negatively about this franchise, if we were not losing every fucking week? That is, again, not on the press. That's on you, That's on Heckert and That's on Shurmer. And I'll tell you what, you three have not seem to have been any sort of upgrade at the moment.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

What about McCoy laying on the ground?"That came up in the meeting yesterday. It seems inconceivable but nobody alerted anyone. So how do we do this so the doctors get the information they need. Best thing we could come up with is putting in a process to have somebody say something."

It seems that way because it IS fucking inconceivable, Mike. It's inconceiveable that EVERY SINGLE coach and EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER on the field wouldn't have said squad after seeing Harrison MURDER Colt. Hell, 90% of us watching that game knew from the MOMENT the hit happened that it was probably a concussion. But NOT ONE of you @#*%s wanted to even check with him briefly, look him in the eye, and talk to him before restarting play? You already had an injury time out and Seneca in the game.

Don't get angry with the media, and SURELY don't get mad at the fans. We're not idiots, and we want you to say HOLY HELL that was STUPID. Not this.

I hate this team and the iterations of the dysfunction they reinvent/recreate every year. Hate myself for not turning it off.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

Triple-S wrote:playing the "You're either with us or against us" quote at the media?

fucking really?

a.) first off, it's not the media's job to be your own pr service. They have every damn right to call a spade a spade. The team sucks mike, the coach sucks, and the QB is mediocre. Don't tap dance around it. Either fix it so those are not an issue, or continue to hear from the media and how they're ripping you apart.

b.) If I'm a fan, why the fuck should I give you the benefit of the doubt on this one? again, this team has made the Mangini coached teams looked competent and almost like Super Bowl contender. The play calling is atrocious, the coach doesn't know what he's doing, and were stuck yet again in top ten draft position.

#c.): VARIOUS OTHER LOUD NOISES!!!!!

If you're so embittered by the years of losing that you can't give a new regime more than a year to turn things around, maybe it's time you stopped watching.

What about McCoy laying on the ground?"That came up in the meeting yesterday. It seems inconceivable but nobody alerted anyone. So how do we do this so the doctors get the information they need. Best thing we could come up with is putting in a process to have somebody say something."

It seems that way because it IS fucking inconceivable, Mike. It's inconceiveable that EVERY SINGLE coach and EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER on the field wouldn't have said squad after seeing Harrison MURDER Colt. Hell, 90% of us watching that game knew from the MOMENT the hit happened that it was probably a concussion. But NOT ONE of you @#*%s wanted to even check with him briefly, look him in the eye, and talk to him before restarting play? You already had an injury time out and Seneca in the game.

Don't get angry with the media, and SURELY don't get mad at the fans. We're not idiots, and we want you to say HOLY HELL that was STUPID. Not this.

I hate this team and the iterations of the dysfunction they reinvent/recreate every year. Hate myself for not turning it off.

Here's a concept that I just want to throw out there.

What if no players went up to the medical staff and told them to check out Colt's head b/c that is what they figured they were doing?

What if no coaches went up to the medical staff and told them to check out Colt's head b/c that is what they figured they were doing?

What if no one called down from the booth and told them to check out Colt's head b/c that is what they figured they were doing?

Do you think players, coaches, and booth review guys check in with the medical staff after every injury to make sure they're checking the right stuff? No, they don't.

Here is the only place where the intervention maybe should've occurred - Medical staff tells Colt his hand is OK, Colt grabs helmet and runs over to Shurmur. THEN is when maybe someone should've said "Whoa whoa whoa, what's Colt doing going back in the game?"

Even that one is debateable, since it happened pretty quickly, not everyone was watching Colt go from the Trainers to the Coach, and those that did probably assumed that the medical staff checked Colt for a concussion and he was OK/fooled them.

This is an NFL procedural issue, and it probably has happened with other teams already. We just didn't know about it because those players' daddies didn't run to the press.

Like I've said before, far be it for me to prevent an effigy bonfire. But I think you're tossing aside critical thinking for righteous anger, which is the Fan Credo.

Sorry, I just find the notion that the medical staff is an over-burdened unit with crazy tunnel vision that runs from injury to injury and no concept of what is happening immediately in the game, let alone happening after a play where a personal foul, tv timeout, ref announcement, and a player lying dead on the field are all involved is a gigantic leap of faith to take.

Put me in the camp that you just cannot get rid of this regime at this point (1yr). However there are plenty of things that have gone on this season that deserve questioning, from on the field play/coaching to procedural stuff...again the Browns have a season in which unprecedented things happen to continue this losing and utter display of incompetence.

Having said that if Holmgren ends up displacing Shurmur (whether this off season or say next) and takes over on the sidelines then one HAS to question what the hell has been going on the past 2 seasons, and also really question Holmgren's integrity (given the admitted lack of interest in staying for the long haul etc). It would be yet another example of incompetence of the owner himself to be duped once again and buying into yet another sales pitch from somebody (MH) really only looking out for himself.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

The Score wrote:Sorry, I just find the notion that the medical staff is an over-burdened unit with crazy tunnel vision that runs from injury to injury and no concept of what is happening immediately in the game, let alone happening after a play where a personal foul, tv timeout, ref announcement, and a player lying dead on the field are all involved is a gigantic leap of faith to take.

I know! You'd think that they'd just be standing around watching the game!

The concept that they'd actually be doing their job from a position where they can't see the field and are too busy to pay attention anyway is ludicrous. I know that when I'm at work I'm also listening carefully across the office to make sure the receptionist is routing the calls properly.

The Score wrote:Sorry, I just find the notion that the medical staff is an over-burdened unit with crazy tunnel vision that runs from injury to injury and no concept of what is happening immediately in the game, let alone happening after a play where a personal foul, tv timeout, ref announcement, and a player lying dead on the field are all involved is a gigantic leap of faith to take.

Then I have to say you're a bit naive or being unrealistic.

IMO it is most likely no different than a hospital setting. Lots of people around, all with different jobs and different things to focus on. So while 35 different staff members might walk by your door as you lay in the $750/day hospital bed despite them all knowing you're there most of them probably have no clue as to why and/or what your most recent updated status is. Until they hear or see calls for help/questions they probably not only will not bother with you but probably don't care to either.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:Put me in the camp that you just cannot get rid of this regime at this point (1yr). However there are plenty of things that have gone on this season that deserve questioning, from on the field play/coaching to procedural stuff...again the Browns have a season in which unprecedented things happen to continue this losing and utter display of incompetence.

Having said that if Holmgren ends up displacing Shurmur (whether this off season or say next) and takes over on the sidelines then one HAS to question what the hell has been going on the past 2 seasons, and also really question Holmgren's integrity (given the admitted lack of interest in staying for the long haul etc). It would be yet another example of incompetence of the owner himself to be duped once again and buying into yet another sales pitch from somebody (MH) really only looking out for himself.

I'd question what he's doing right now. I'd love to see what a day in the life of the Walrus is like.

FUDU wrote:Put me in the camp that you just cannot get rid of this regime at this point (1yr). However there are plenty of things that have gone on this season that deserve questioning, from on the field play/coaching to procedural stuff...again the Browns have a season in which unprecedented things happen to continue this losing and utter display of incompetence.

Having said that if Holmgren ends up displacing Shurmur (whether this off season or say next) and takes over on the sidelines then one HAS to question what the hell has been going on the past 2 seasons, and also really question Holmgren's integrity (given the admitted lack of interest in staying for the long haul etc). It would be yet another example of incompetence of the owner himself to be duped once again and buying into yet another sales pitch from somebody (MH) really only looking out for himself.

I'd question what he's doing right now. I'd love to see what a day in the life of the Walrus is like.

Just sayin', I have some experience with gameday medical staffs and I'm not buying that they had no idea James Harrison took off McCoy's head on the play. It's not like it was a play away from the action, or under a pile, or even a routine tackle where a guy doesn't get up for some unknown reason.

The Score wrote:Just sayin', I have some experience with gameday medical staffs and I'm not buying that they had no idea James Harrison took off McCoy's head on the play. It's not like it was a play away from the action, or under a pile, or even a routine tackle where a guy doesn't get up for some unknown reason.

Maybe it is naive. I don't think so, but whatever.

OK, let's look at it this way:

Let's say the medical staff was fully aware that Harrison just plowed Colt in the head. What motivation did they have to not perform a proper concussion test?

And if they performed said test and found that he was OK, why would they cover up the fact that they gave the test?

And if they performed said test and found he was concussed, what motivation did they have to proclaim him fit to return (thus risking their very jobs)?

Was the game THAT important? Was Colt McCoy so integral to the team that they couldn't possibly win without him on the field?

There has to be a motive for these actions which the Browns are supposedly covering up. There has to be a believable alternative explanation in order for me to call them liars.

Someone inform Holmgren, that at his position in the NFL, with this team or anyone else, that he hasn't accomplished shit.

Fucking guy sits up there like some sage who's doing us a favor.

Another fucking idiot like the rest of em'

Doomed.

I'll say it till I'm blue in the face - and a few years back I never would have said it.....but until the Browns get an invested owner, we're at the mercy of the next group of pirhanas that comes swimming by.

Cause when these assholes are gone, the next group that gets half his attention with some sort of line of bullshit are in.

An owner, that has an idea what's going on in the NFL, that has some respect from many of his peers, is the single most important component if the franchise is going to get turned around. Period.

The Score wrote:Sorry, I just find the notion that the medical staff is an over-burdened unit with crazy tunnel vision that runs from injury to injury and no concept of what is happening immediately in the game, let alone happening after a play where a personal foul, tv timeout, ref announcement, and a player lying dead on the field are all involved is a gigantic leap of faith to take.

No no. If you don't see what's going on, you can hear the players on the sideline. Most times they'll tell you you better get out there. And most people I know with no medical training would know a player flat on his back has the potential for more than a hand injury. And am I the only one who heard the press conference?

If they dropped the ball that bad, they need their license pulled. I've seen licenses pulled for much less than that.

I'm thinking more and more it was a communication gap between the staff, and/or Colt's concussed brain, and Gomer.

Last edited by Spin on Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.