myron, i sold off my Bolex R8 over 15 years ago, so i do not have it
in front of me in order to share the camera's specs. i will qualify,
however, by pointing out that i used a BOLEX (circa 1948-52) and not
a Krasnogorsk (i did own a K-3 at one time, but that is a regular
16mm camera and much newer than the Bolex - lots of problems with
that one, but i liked the effects it gave me by unexpectedly losing
its loop from time to time) and we may indeed be talking about two
different types of cameras, or cameras from different eras. Anyway,
what i do still have is the footage that i ran through the Bolex and
that footage is on 16mm stock (yes, double-perf - but no, not double-
sprocketed) .

the camera came into my hands around the mid-90s and (like Miriam) i
bought it thinking that it was a regular 16mm camera - in my blissful
innocence, i loaded it up with some stock that i had laying around
(Kodak 7239). the film came out exposed on only half the frame, as i
only ran it through once (there is a sample of this footage on the
film in the link that i posted before). i used the black side of the
frame to scratch on.

once i saw what i had, i ran another roll through the R8, then
flipped the roll around, ran it back through a second time, and got
the quartered frame effect with half the images showing upside down
(there is also a sample of that footage in that same film).

i agree with you that the frame lines are visible and not exactly
attractive, but the "look" of my films has always been "distressed"
so i accepted that and embraced it as an effect.

and i am not certain that the Krasnogorsk would be as gentle on film
as the Bolex, since i remember the K-3 as a pretty brutal little
machine. but the Bolex did run the film easily with no ill effects.

perhaps we are talking about two different types of R8s. It may be
that my Bolex was much older than newer models designed specifically
for double-sprocketed film stocks. if this is the case, then Miriam
would do best to heed your advice and avoid loading regular 16mm into
her new Krasnogorsk, because those cameras did not come into the
market until sometime around the 1970s.

> When you say you ran 16mm film through an 8mm camera are you sure
> you are not referring to "double 8mm" film which looks exactly like
> 16mm film except with twice as many sprocket holes on each side?
> Otherwise you simply cannot run 16mm film through an 8mm camera.
> Impossible unless you punch another set of sprocket holes in the
> film. I think we have a semantic issue here. Unless you know some
> secret technique of modifying the 8mm camera or I am not getting
> something here. What happens when the 8mm camera claw digs into
> the film where there ain't no sprocket hole? Doesn't that jam
> things? Are you saying you somehow force 16mm film through an 8mm
> camera even it doesn't want to do it?
>
>
> mo
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez wrote:
>
>> rick, i have made several films using the described method of 16mm
>> film run through a double-8 camera, spliced into regular 16mm
>> footage, and projected as 16mm. so it IS possible, it is just
>> not the standard way to do things. i remember a 16mm film
>> entitled "Drawn and Quartered" by Lynne Sachs made in the early
>> 1980s that was entirely constructed using this technique. i'm
>> sure others will confirm this fact.
>>
>> i am attaching a link to one of my films that uses this type of
>> footage so you can see what it looks like if interested. the film
>> is a collage and the footage is interspersed throughout, alongside
>> other 16mm footage (never counted sprocket holes, just got lucky i
>> guess). you have to watch the film a bit before you can see the
>> first samples of this effect. there are other weird effects in
>> this film, as most of the film was made using damaged or
>> "obsolete" cameras.
>>
>> l'anatomie du desir
>>
>>
>> enjoy today...
>>
>> Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
>> Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
>>
>> www.solislandmediaworks.com
>> www.artcinematic.blogspot.com
>> http://cinesthesia.blip.tv>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Dicky wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Miriam,
>>> There's a really high amount of misinformation on this thread. I
>>> have made many films with Regular 8, and am working on one right
>>> now in fact, so let me try and correct some of these mistakes.
>>>
>>> Regular 8 cameras do not take 16 mm film per se; you cannot just
>>> go out and buy 16 mm film and put it in the camera. Regular 8
>>> film is the same size as 16 mm film, and the sprocket holes are
>>> also the same size, except there are twice as many sprocket holes
>>> and they run along both sides of the film. Also, you cannot just
>>> splice it in with 16 mm film necessarily... because there are
>>> twice as many sprocket holes, you have to be careful about this.
>>> You have to count and make sure that there are an even number of
>>> sprocket holes in a strip if you plan on putting more 16 mm film
>>> after it. If there are an odd number of holes, the film will not
>>> catch in the claw, get torn up and potentially damage your
>>> projector; I know from experience!
>>>
>>> The film is usually sold in 25 foot canisters, although there is
>>> stock from Eastern Europe (I think the Czech Republic) called
>>> Fomopan that comes in 33 foot rolls. It's not the easiest film to
>>> find, but there are plenty of places that have it. Two that I
>>> know of off hand because they are the places I buy my film from
>>> are Action Camera in San Francisco and Yale Film and Video in Los
>>> Angeles.
>>>
>>> And if you'd like to just see what the film looks like if you
>>> leave it unslit, I have some stills from single and multi-
>>> projector works I've done with regular 8 film here:
>>> http://flickr.com/photos/thedicky/sets/72157608341201326/>>> The only one that is in color, for instance, is a single
>>> projection of un-slit regular 8.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rick Bahto
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
>>> <email suppressed> wrote:
>>> i agree that you might want to hold on to this rare find. the
>>> effect produced by this double-8 camera when projected in 16mm is
>>> very cool. and yes, you can project it and cut the footage in
>>> with other regular 16mm footage. i had a bolex like this years
>>> ago and had to sell it (basically had kids to feed) and to this
>>> day, it is the one piece of equipment that i have most regretted
>>> parting with. this just might be a blessing in disguise, Miriam.
>>>
>>> enjoy today...
>>>
>>> Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
>>> Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
>>>
>>> www.solislandmediaworks.com
>>> www.artcinematic.blogspot.com
>>> http://cinesthesia.blip.tv>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 23, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Jorge Lorenzo Flores Garza wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ohh, I guess that's a much better explanation from Mark!!
>>>>
>>>> Saludos,
>>>>
>>>> Jorge L.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:19:59 -0800
>>>> From: email suppressed
>>>> Subject: Re: HELP
>>>> To: email suppressed
>>>>
>>>> Miriam,
>>>>
>>>> You indeed purchased a Regular 8 (R8) camera. As you probably
>>>> now realize, it takes 16mm film with sprocket holes specific for
>>>> use in 8mm cameras. You shoot the roll of 25ft film which
>>>> exposes half the frame, turn the film over and shoot another
>>>> 25ft. After processing the film is split and spliced together.
>>>>
>>>> Although I haven't tried this, I'm told you can still project
>>>> this film with a standard 16mm projector if you don't have it
>>>> split after processing. You would basically see two frames
>>>> simultaneously on the screen which may be of interest to you as
>>>> a technique. Keep in mind that one frame would be right side up,
>>>> while the other would be upside down due to the way the film
>>>> goes through the camera. If you want both frames right side up
>>>> you would have to shoot the last 25ft with the camera upside down.
>>>>
>>>> If you didn't pay much for the camera and it works you might
>>>> want to keep it or this technique.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: miriam jayne martins sampaio [mailto:email suppressed]
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:00 AM
>>>> To: email suppressed
>>>> Subject: HELP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I kinda of screwed up when i bought this camera, Quarz 2x8S-1M
>>>> FILM MOVIE CAMERA.
>>>>
>>>> Quarz 2x8S-1M FILM MOVIE CAMERA.
>>>> The camera and it's zoom lens was manufactured at KRASNOGORSK
>>>> factory in Moscow, USSR.
>>>>
>>>> Technical data
>>>> Camera Type: movie film, film type: standard 16mm film, frame
>>>> size: 4x5.5mm, 12, 18, 24, 36 frames/sec preset, internal light
>>>> meter, single frame shooting, spring drive motor,
>>>> intershangeable lenses.
>>>>
>>>> Lens: Jupiter-24M 1.9/12.5
>>>>
>>>> Let me say first that i know nothing about 16mm camera's and was
>>>> super excited to find this one which seemed quite compact and a
>>>> good reasonable price. i purchased it from from ebay. before
>>>> purchasing it did show it to a friend who knows about camera's
>>>> and he too assumed it was 16mm but its NOT!! it takes 16mm but
>>>> its actually an 8mm?!?! goddess help me!
>>>> does anyone know if it takes any kind of 16mm film??
>>>>
>>>> i feel like an idiot but....
>>>> i have not received it and i did speak with the seller about
>>>> this but....
>>>> the ad was a bit misleading but ultimately it was my fault. so
>>>> know i have a camera that i did not want??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Miriam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got
>>>> better.____________________________________________________________
>>>> ______ For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>>>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Comparte fotos y videos mientras chateas en Messenger.
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________________ F
>>> or info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________________ F
>>> or info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>
>