phrenicmonkey:Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

phrenicmonkey:Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

Why should they tough it out? He wants kids, she doesn't. The party has to be over. Seriously, do you talk to a potential mate before the relationship begins to become serious? I never did. In fact, when my first wife and I were dating, such things were discussed, but neither of us felt we were ready to make so important a decision about becoming parents one day. We decided that it was a decision for later in life. We got lucky, though. Neither of us decided we wanted children. We should have made this decision before marrying. At least this young couple understands this. They have different decisions, so they have to go their separate ways. They may be behaving like a couple of hipster douches, but they are dead-on right about this.

CapeFearCadaver:phrenicmonkey: Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

I'm under the impression (mistakenly?) that this couple's getting a divorce. Also, I'm old. Five years doesn't seem like much to me. Also, I don't like them.

phrenicmonkey:CapeFearCadaver: phrenicmonkey: Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

I'm under the impression (mistakenly?) that this couple's getting a divorce. Also, I'm old. Five years doesn't seem like much to me. Also, I don't like them.

This is a good point. Goddamn kids these days destroying traditional family values by communicating with each other and responsibly moving on from relationships they aren't happy in. They should do what everyone's always done, blame each other for their unhappiness and silently resent one another for 20 years before one starts down a path of alcoholism and the other has a string of infidelities resulting in an STD, so they can bring up the children neither really wanted or felt competent to have in an unbroken home they're each too afraid to completely leave because they have no idea how to live without dumping all of their angst and misery at the feet of someone else.

StaleCoffee:phrenicmonkey: CapeFearCadaver: phrenicmonkey: Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

I'm under the impression (mistakenly?) that this couple's getting a divorce. Also, I'm old. Five years doesn't seem like much to me. Also, I don't like them.

This is a good point. Goddamn kids these days destroying traditional family values by communicating with each other and responsibly moving on from relationships they aren't happy in. They should do what everyone's always done, blame each other for their unhappiness and silently resent one another for 20 years before one starts down a path of alcoholism and the other has a string of infidelities resulting in an STD, so they can bring up the children neither really wanted or felt competent to have in an unbroken home they're each too afraid to completely leave because they have no idea how to live without dumping all of their angst and misery at the feet of someone else.

I forgot to add that I don't like them either and am glad they aren't having kids.

StaleCoffee:StaleCoffee: phrenicmonkey: CapeFearCadaver: phrenicmonkey: Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

I'm under the impression (mistakenly?) that this couple's getting a divorce. Also, I'm old. Five years doesn't seem like much to me. Also, I don't like them.

This is a good point. Goddamn kids these days destroying traditional family values by communicating with each other and responsibly moving on from relationships they aren't happy in. They should do what everyone's always done, blame each other for their unhappiness and silently resent one another for 20 years before one starts down a path of alcoholism and the other has a string of infidelities resulting in an STD, so they can bring up the children neither really wanted or felt competent to have in an unbroken home they're each too afraid to completely leave because they have no idea how to live without dumping all of their angst and misery at the feet of someone else.

I forgot to add that I don't like them either and am glad they aren't having kids.

DrowningLessons:Well after that I would want to break up with either of them.

/she's got that dead-eyed thing

THIS. That was the first thing I noticed.

Channeling my inner Betazoid, I sense in her eyes sadness, resignation, and doing this out of some sense of obligation but not really deriving any satisfaction from it at all beyond getting it over with. She also just looks *tired*.

Perhaps she feels like putting the *reason* for their break up out on public display is too personal, but because our culture tells women they "should" want to have children, she's the bad guy for being inflexible on that count...and as such she's issuing this as a sort of public apology for failing as a woman as well as a partner. Sucks if that's the case - I feel sorry for her.

He, on the other hand, seems to almost feel virtuous about this. As in, "Look at what a good, decent man I am. I want to have babies! And I'm telling the world to not hold it against her that she's cold and devoid of maternal instincts. I'm doubly good and decent."

If this were my relationship, it would be nobody's damn business why we broke up except in so far as I decided to have a private conversation with this or that friend about it.

//thought I knew what self-indulgent was

(nodding) Something tells me this was more his idea than hers. She just wanted to get it over with, and for some reason she felt obligated.

At my husband's company holiday party this weekend I ran into a couple that will be getting married in a few months and it's clear from information they volunteered that they're not on the same page about having kids. He seems naively idealistic that "she'll come around." She sounds like she has NO interest in having kids, but will allow him to believe she might change her mind if it will get her the fairytale wedding she's always dreamed of. (sigh)

I predict a similar (and likely less pleasant) parting of the ways for those two -- hopefully before they walk down the aisle.

/don't understand why people can't be honest with themselves and then with their partner about such a basic and critically important thing right up front

phrenicmonkey:StaleCoffee: StaleCoffee: phrenicmonkey: CapeFearCadaver: phrenicmonkey: Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

I'm under the impression (mistakenly?) that this couple's getting a divorce. Also, I'm old. Five years doesn't seem like much to me. Also, I don't like them.

This is a good point. Goddamn kids these days destroying traditional family values by communicating with each other and responsibly moving on from relationships they aren't happy in. They should do what everyone's always done, blame each other for their unhappiness and silently resent one another for 20 years before one starts down a path of alcoholism and the other has a string of infidelities resulting in an STD, so they can bring up the children neither really wanted or felt competent to have in an unbroken home they're each too afraid to completely leave because they have no idea how to live without dumping all of their angst and misery at the feet of someone else.

I forgot to add that I don't like them either and am glad they aren't having kids.

StaleCoffee:phrenicmonkey: StaleCoffee: StaleCoffee: phrenicmonkey: CapeFearCadaver: phrenicmonkey: Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

I'm under the impression (mistakenly?) that this couple's getting a divorce. Also, I'm old. Five years doesn't seem like much to me. Also, I don't like them.

This is a good point. Goddamn kids these days destroying traditional family values by communicating with each other and responsibly moving on from relationships they aren't happy in. They should do what everyone's always done, blame each other for their unhappiness and silently resent one another for 20 years before one starts down a path of alcoholism and the other has a string of infidelities resulting in an STD, so they can bring up the children neither really wanted or felt competent to have in an unbroken home they're each too afraid to completely leave because they have no idea how to live without dumping all of their angst and misery at the feet of someone else.

I forgot to add that I don't like them either and am glad they aren't having kids.

fyrewede:At my husband's company holiday party this weekend I ran into a couple that will be getting married in a few months and it's clear from information they volunteered that they're not on the same page about having kids. He seems naively idealistic that "she'll come around." She sounds like she has NO interest in having kids, but will allow him to believe she might change her mind if it will get her the fairytale wedding she's always dreamed of. (sigh)

So she's allowing him to think she will change her mind about wanting kids in the future, or to be more succinct, lying to him about it, and he believes her... I am cynical enough to accept that taking anything a woman says at face value is naive, but isn't the reason they aren't on the same page because she's a scheming biatch?

phrenicmonkey:StaleCoffee: phrenicmonkey: StaleCoffee: StaleCoffee: phrenicmonkey: CapeFearCadaver: phrenicmonkey: Way to tough it out, you two. Couldn't figure this shiat out before you hooked up?

They were together for 5 years... I dated a guy for five years when we were both in our mid-twenties. I always knew I wanted kids eventually but I also knew I certainly wasn't ready for that yet. He, on the other hand, really had no interest in having kids but had stated he hoped he changed his mind. After the 5 years he decided he definitely wanted kids and I decided I definitely didn't want kids with him. He's a good guy but completely irresponsible; it took a while to learn that one about him. Anyways, we broke up over 2 years ago and are really close friends. Just not looking for the same things... grew in different ways. That's all.

I'm under the impression (mistakenly?) that this couple's getting a divorce. Also, I'm old. Five years doesn't seem like much to me. Also, I don't like them.

This is a good point. Goddamn kids these days destroying traditional family values by communicating with each other and responsibly moving on from relationships they aren't happy in. They should do what everyone's always done, blame each other for their unhappiness and silently resent one another for 20 years before one starts down a path of alcoholism and the other has a string of infidelities resulting in an STD, so they can bring up the children neither really wanted or felt competent to have in an unbroken home they're each too afraid to completely leave because they have no idea how to live without dumping all of their angst and misery at the feet of someone else.

I forgot to add that I don't like them either and am glad they aren't having kids.