I think this is the first rule that will need to be address for Madden 12...

From what i understand - surprise onside kicks are being successful at an insanely high rate... surprise onside kicks are the type of thing where u MAY get away with ONCE or TWICE a year - but if u try it more than that - ITS NOT A SURPRISE ANYMORE AND TEAMS WOULD BE EXPECTING IT!!!!

The issue is that Madden looks at games INDIVIDUALLY - (it doesnt have the ability to see that u did a "surprise onside kick" in your last 8 games in a row - thus making a not so surprise onside kick! and if u did a "surpise" onside kick that much, the return team would anticipate it and adjust the return team accordingly LOL!) - If it was the type of thing you only got away with 2-3 times a year TOPS - I WOULDNT HAVE A PROBLEM ALLOWING IT - but because the AI doesnt take into account previous games where u tried such a play - i am of the belief that we should just ban its use all together!

And i know guys are going to say - "its a LEGIT and SIM play" - and i agree with that statement - if its done only a handful of times in the year - but the fact is - it can be used successful way more than that - which brings it into the realm of a glitch in terms of Online Franchise play...

some guys would prefer to have it in the game - but if you Truly want to be considered a SIM player i think this is an example of a SIM kinda of play that has to be left out of the leagues because of the POTENTIAL for its abuse...

Someone did suggest only allowing someone to use surprise onside kicks 2-3 times a year (regardless of outcomes) - but keeping track of how many times everyone has attempted a surprise onside kick seems like an exercise in futility...

Last edited by GREENERRRR on Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

swaggonatrillion wrote:Well in my experience with "Surprise" onside kicks is they only let me do it once a game so if thats the case then allow them because they do that in real life games now

well it would be fine if you were able to do it once in a game - EVERY 7-8 GAMES!!! BUT allowing an onside lick once a game - thats crazy and is not even close to SIM...

bottom line if surprise onside kicks are allowed - guys will always line up in ONSIDE defense EVERY KICK RETURN (to defend against the onside surpise possibility) AND THATS NOT SIM EITHER - BUT ITS 1 UNSIM TO COUNTER ANOTHER UNSIM THINGS!!! LOL...- afterall its better to make sure u dont get screwed by a BS onside kick and only get a marginal KR than to give up an onside kick once a game....

YES!! But ONLY if you are losing. Doesn't matter if it's the second quarter, third, fourth, w/e. If you are losing there is always an element of surprise. Good owners/coaches always prepare there teams for instances like that. Some may still say, aside from what I know, that the Colts had a better team than the 09 Saints. And the reason that we won that game was because of that onside kick and how Payton outcoached Jim Caldwell that entire game. We had the better team, because we had the better coach and were trained better for ALL aspects of the game. I say definitely install the SURPRISE onside kick. But like you said, anymore than 2 times a year is no surprise!!

I vote no surprise onsides. I think its obvious that this was a poorly implemented idea and it will get exploited endlessly like everything else in madden. If it is allowed, then eventually everyone will be doing them every game because they are effective. That will lead to people lining up in onside recover for EVERY KICKOFF to counter it.

That is not sim.

Lets just make it simple and say no surprise onsides PERIOD.

The play is obviously glitched and exploiting a glitch is for cheaters, cheezers, and bums. Just like direct snap a few years ago, this is a poor attempt by the devs to add something to the game that we see in real NFL, but unfortunately it is WAY too effective so we need to just ban it outright or people WILL exploit it and we WILL have complaints, arguments and lots of drama. We are here for sim football. How many times did teams try surprise onsides in real NFL last year? Maybe 2-3 times for the entire league. So even if it were allowed it is not something that should be done more than 1 time per season per team, so by banning it we really arent losing anything. I think we can just forget about this play and avoid a lot of controversy.

Regular onside kicks should be allowed when down in 4th qtr only (which i Believe is the rule already)

ITS A BRAND NEW ELEMENT TO THE GAME, LET'S GIVE IT A SHOT AT LEAST FOR THE FIRST SEASON BEFORE WE KNOCK IT.AS LONG AS IT'S IN THE SECOND HALF. The point is to get an edge the an opp you can stop from scoring.I love it!!!!