The rumors continue that Spirit will go Chapter 11, that Indy will go Chapter 7 and ATA will convert its proceeding into a Chapter 7.....its too soon to tell, a lot will depend on how these smaller carriers did over the important 3rd quarter; if these airlines did not make money (or generate extra cash reserves) over the busy summer travel season, they all will have big problems going into the difficult winter season where airlines typically lose money due to reduced demand.

Regarding Spirit, I really hope that they did not get themselves into trouble - I was very concerned when Spirit annouced the Airbus deal since they seemed to be making the same mistakes that got ATA into trouble: low fare carrier orders lots of shiny new and expensive airplanes to rapidly expand on unproven routes while charging low fares. Spirits new Airbus' are very nice, but can they afford them? And, Spirits route development does not seem to be going according to plan....something is up. Shame.

The future for Indy does not seem great, although they continue to fly......lets be honest, most thought that they would be out of business by now. The enviornment is tough, question is whether they can come up with a route network that makes any sense in order to increase fares, yeilds and loads all at the same time?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):Regarding Spirit, I really hope that they did not get themselves into trouble - I was very concerned when Spirit annouced the Airbus deal since they seemed to be making the same mistakes that got ATA into trouble: low fare carrier orders lots of shiny new and expensive airplanes to rapidly expand on unproven routes while charging low fares. Spirits new Airbus' are very nice, but can they afford them? And, Spirits route development does not seem to be going according to plan....something is up.

My thoughts exactly. Spending too much on new airplanes for low yield routes is not normally a recipe for success...unless, of course, you are Southwest.

Spirit did the right thing in ordering new planes. The old DC9's and MD80's were becoming fuel and MX hogs. I questioned the 321 order at the time, however. Seemed like plane had the potential to leave them with a lot of excess capacity. An all 319 order or even a mix of 319's and 320's would've been better than the 319/321 mix. Too much room in the middle if capacity is too little or too much in a particular market.

Maybe but I know jetBlue would love to use their gates and landing slots at FLL. Otherwise, kind of, they both have A320 series planes, focused on Florida routes but jetBlue and Spirit both have their distance. I fly jetBlue and Spirit the most and they are definitely different. But I sure jetBlue could take some planes and slots but otherwise not so much of a match.

Spirit better not go Chap 11 because if they and NW do then well DTW will be a ghost town. I would expect many airlines to jump in there. They better not though because my brother flies them to and from college.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 11):Spirit uses the common-use Terminal Four at FLL, and FLL is not slot restricted. Spirit's assets that are specific to FLL are non-existent.

Ok, sorry but Spirit does use all 10 Gates in T4 a couple times a day so jetBlue could have flights out of there and have some open space at T4 during certain times. But a 2 Terminal operation is annoying, but it is still and idea, I do like T1 a lot (I was there in July and will be in Dec.)

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Yeah they would....especially when they are going to start downsizing FLL a bit to cut the extra capacity they caused.

They are not downsizing anything. This winter, they are flying more flights to FLL than ever before. What jetBlue is doing is growing at FLL this year less than they have in the past. No downsizing whatsoever.

Quoting IslipWN (Reply 10):If anything they should have ordered something more like an A318/A319 mix or an A319/A320 mix.

I agree... I would have liked to see the A320 also. I believe the thinking was that they could fill the A321 to the Caribbean.

Either way, NK would have had to order new planes. The M80's burn way to much fuel. The A321 burns much less fuel on the same route than an 80 does, and carries 48 more people. I guess we will see what Ben's response is to the article on todays employee hotline.

Does NK have the option of changing their 32X orders around and into different ac? Maybe they should pick up some 318s for the thinner routes and additional 319s instead of more 321s, though I can see why they have the 321, that being for those high load factor Florida flights.

I have a friend that works at Spirit that wanted me to make a clarification on the report from the New York Times regarding NK's bankruptcy possibility.

First of all, NK continues to receive Airbus airplanes. New aircraft continue to be delivered (1 A319 recently, 1 A321 and 1 more A319 will be delivered in the next two weeks) and Spirit is considering acquiring more Airbus aircraft.

Secondly, last year, an investment firm invested $225 million in Spirit.

Thirdly, unlike the major airlines, Spirit is hedged for 95% of its fuel requirements in 2005, so it has not been paying the even higher fuel costs that the major bankrupt airlines like Northwest and Delta have.

NK has made it known to the NYT that their report is erroneous, by placing Spirit along with FlyI in the bankruptcy possibilities.

Ben had said in the employee hotline update today that they contacted the NYTs about the report, including the editor and the write or the article. He said it was an error and they confused Spirit with an airline that was in fact in major finacial problems. NOT SPIRIT!

Quoting N587NK (Reply 23):He said it was an error and they confused Spirit with an airline that was in fact in major finacial problems. NOT SPIRIT!

Let's sue them!!! No , just kidding. The fact is, I don't believe we are in that much trouble. The article says an analyst said it, so it really is just an opinion of one person, and probably not based on any real facts (since it is hard to know the true financial stability of a private company.)

next flight ACY-TPA-ACY for spring training on NK

25 Midway2AirTran
: Maybe it was the "Spirit Of Delta" aircraft that the author saw and got confused. I really questioned those reports when I first saw them, especially

26 PHXinterrupted
: Hedged at what price? And 2005 is almost over; what about 2006?

27 Wedgetail737
: I wasn't given the fuel hedge price or how much they managed to hedge in 2006. It's probably proprietary info with NK.