Im a beginner as well. I started with cams I bought from mountain tools in the states, I was very happy with the service from mtn tools. I had nuts and cams and generally climbed mostly on the nuts. Climbing above a cam used to and still does scare me. Recently I got a full set of hexes and I have been surprised how much I use them. Climbing above a bomber hex gives me incredible confidence. To me a hex placement is so obvious and I can see its bomber, cams for me are more difficult to learn about how they work and what is a good vs. bad placement. One thing to bear in mind is that a small cam (especially very small) is more difficult to place correctly as the tolerances are lower in terms of selecting the correct size. The advice I received was as a beginner look for good nut placements and learn about how they work first before moving to learn about cams. Whatever you choose to buy based on the advice in this forum, your best friend is beta from an experienced climber, they will be able to tell you what climb takes what sort of gear, and you can choose a climb to suit your rack. And... have a great birthday mate!

Oh yeah, the vote... I say buy the cams first, then buy the odd hex now and then as you have a few spare dollars. I started with the #6 and #7 BD wired hexes. They are only $30 each locally and you can buy one every few weeks

On 27/04/2009 ambyeok wrote:>Im a beginner as well. I started with cams I bought from mountain tools>in the states, I was very happy with the service from mtn tools. I had>nuts and cams and generally climbed mostly on the nuts. Climbing above>a cam used to and still does scare me. Recently I got a full set of hexes>and I have been surprised how much I use them. Climbing above a bomber>hex gives me incredible confidence. To me a hex placement is so obvious>and I can see its bomber, cams for me are more difficult to learn about>how they work and what is a good vs. bad placement. One thing to bear in>mind is that a small cam (especially very small) is more difficult to place>correctly as the tolerances are lower in terms of selecting the correct>size. The advice I received was as a beginner look for good nut placements>and learn about how they work first before moving to learn about cams.>Whatever you choose to buy based on the advice in this forum, your best>friend is beta from an experienced climber, they will be able to tell you>what climb takes what sort of gear, and you can choose a climb to suit>your rack. And... have a great birthday mate!

This is top advice. I learnt to lead on a rack of nuts and hexes (because cams were out of my price range) and only bought cams much later. My personal opinion is that I learnt how to place passive gear really well - and that hexes are quite good at protecting low grade climbs due to the nature of those sort of climbs.

Eventually, I think most people end up on using cams more than hexes, but for a cheap investment they're a great way to learn. And amyeok - if you don't trust the cams, then you need to fall (or sit) on them to see if they hold, when you're backed up safely (like mikl's top-rope aid technique). It's the only way you'll learn what will and won't hold.

Tri-cams are an excellent way to go, I have a set that covers all the small cams up to medium, this is a
much better option than cams, as the Tri-cams are more versatile than cams, but can cam as well.
Get a set instead of the Hex's, probably cheaper than Hex's, will do what a Hex can or a nut, or a cam !

Where do you think for the short term you are going to climb at the most? eg. Blue mountains drop the RPs get an extra cam. Araps get the RPs, small cams and a big hex. Granite slabs, tell the school bully what you did to his mother and toughen up.

On 27/04/2009 widewetandslippery wrote:>Where do you think for the short term you are going to climb at the most?>eg. Blue mountains drop the RPs get an extra cam. Araps get the RPs, small>cams and a big hex. Granite slabs, tell the school bully what you did to>his mother and toughen up.>>Buy good stuff not he cheapies. you'll learn to do more with less.

I can't agree more. Buy gear that will suit your climbing, and where you climb. If you climb with a partner on a regular basis find out what they already have and buy gear that will compliment theirs. No point heading out and finding that between the two of you that you don't have any slings.

I love my hexes and would usually take the larger ones with a matching set of smaller cams.

On 26/04/2009 bl@ke wrote:>iv got 7 nuts at the moment and im getting a set of rp's and a set of omega>pacific nuts for my birthday so the nut department is all good. does cam>sizes 0.5, 1, 2, 2.5, 3and 4 sound good?

Given you already have some nuts, I'd go for the cams.

I also second stonetroll and bomber pro's suggestion of tricams as passive pro being good.

If/when you decide to get some hexes then I (unlike some other people), would suggest the smaller sizes as I find they complement the nuts better for the odd type of placement. These days I don't use the mid size hexes much, due cams invariably work for most of those placements. I find the large size hexes although useful for easy climbs (due going places where cams won't), not used much either, unless minimising gear on the rack where weight is an issue; but this is more to do with location of climb and access to it!

On 26/04/2009 mattjr wrote:>Not as harsh as Sabu suggesting Bl@ke is only a sp%@t climber! ;-)

~> I think you misread Sabu's post.
;-)

On 27/04/2009 widewetandslippery wrote:>Granite slabs, tell the school bully what you did to his mother and toughen up.

GET SOME NUTS if you haven't already. Regarding the cams/hexes question -- if you are planning climbing mostly around NE Vic (i.e. granite), I'd go with cams. I almost never use hexes on granite because I find the crystals tend to mean you can't get a lot of surface contact (OK maybe it's partly because I'm too lazy and just plug in a cam). For climbing on any other rock, I'd get hexes first because they're pretty darn good and your rack gets bigger quicker :)

Have you got a rope? are you top roping as well? Get a 10 or 15m length of static and a few long slings 3m, 4m, 5m you'll need 4 or 5 screw gates as well - getting the gear to top rope is the cheapest way to get started.

If you're climbing around Melb only eg werribee, camels, mt alex, black hill, youies then you can do quite well without a trad rack just 8 or so draws

My climbing partner has Kong cams despite the price I think they are pretty good. I'd go the cams every time and start with a 2 then a 3 then 1 then fill the gaps before going bigger. I like a biner for each cam but some people use a racking biner and then put a quickdraw on them as they go. Get 3 or 4 60cm slings if you haven't already.

Of course, the cheapest way by far is to find someone who already has a rack.

thanks for everyones input : )
ok i think i will go the cams but it would be way boring not buying anything while i save up for the cams so i will get a couple of smallish hexs and a tri cam. do tri cams come with instructions? cos i look at them and think how the F@#k do they work lol
i mainly climb around the cathedrals (well i did until the bloody fires) so i will try ti get mostly trad stuff and hope that ten draws will get me up most sport routes. also with BD wired hexs i have heard that the wire on them causes them to wiggle out of placements, is this true?

Hi Bl@ke. I have a "spare" set of rock empire cams that have been loved and the size 1 and 3 have even fallen on occasionally. They were my first. I have since upgraded. It sounds like you will eventually too. As many climbers are aware firsts spend a lot of time in the cupboard. If you want the whole set of 8, I can sell them for $160. Contact me at com if you want them. P.S. I still use small hexes (size 2,3 and 4) instead of big nuts. The size 4 and 5 are too narrow.