Has Pelosi been marginalized?

posted at 2:00 pm on July 9, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Time’s Jay Newton-Small asks this question after former Speaker Nancy Pelosi asked a question that made her appear completely out of touch in the debt-ceiling debate. Despite losing the midterm elections on the issue of spending and deficits, Pelosi wondered aloud in a White House strategy meeting why debt-ceiling negotiations had to involve spending cuts at all, surprising everyone else in the room:

At Thursday’s White House meeting between President Obama and congressional leaders, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner laid out in stark terms the awful economic repercussions of allowing the debt ceiling to lapse. Everyone in the room agreed that defaulting on U.S. debt would be disastrous and that something must be done. At that point, Nancy Pelosi asked: Why couldn’t the debt ceiling be decoupled from deficit reduction?

Her query, after so many weeks of reports and talks centered on deficit reduction tied to a debt ceiling deal, visibly surprised some leaders in the room, several Republican and Democratic sources say. Obama politely informed the House Minority Leader, those same sources say, that that train had left the station weeks ago.

As the leader of a House caucus in a clear minority, Pelosi has already become largely irrelevant, especially after losing the midterms in such spectacular fashion. Now Newton-Small says that Barack Obama might make her even more obsolete by directly dealing with her lieutenant, Steny Hoyer, to get the moderate Democrats on board any deal:

But some Republican and Democratic sources point to Pelosi’s question in Thursday’s meeting as one that highlights how out of touch Pelosi has become on policy as she crisscrosses the country fundraising and recruiting candidates, working to regain the majority and her speakership. The President, these same sources suggested, could rely on House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer to deliver moderate Democrats to help pass the debt ceiling, thus circumventing Pelosi.”I think it’s clear she is not taken seriously by White House, Senate and Republican leadership,” said one Democratic member on the condition of anonymity. …

Boehner will likely need Democratic votes to get a debt ceiling increase passed, which is why Pelosi last week demanded a seat at the negotiating table. She has drawn a line – and made it clear to the President – that she would vehemently oppose cuts to entitlement benefits. Of all the participants in negotiations, Pelosi has the most to lose if Boehner and Obama pass a sweeping grand bargain. Such a move would burnish Boehner’s credentials as someone who can get things done, while shoring up his Tea Party support by cutting trillions of dollars from the budget. His success would undercut her argument that America would be better served with Democrats running the House.

True enough, although that train left the station long ago, too. Pelosi and the DCCC tried using a Republicans-are-Tea-Party-extremist-nutjobs campaign in 2010, and it didn’t exactly work out too well for them the first time. Republicans managed to craft a deal on the FY2011 budget within weeks while only controlling one chamber of Congress, something Pelosi couldn’t do all year with total Democratic control in Washington.

Still, I expect that this report from The Hill that provides some corroboration of Boehner’s increasing stature will make a lot of conservatives … nervous:

The relationship between Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and President Obama is building as they head into a critical meeting aimed at ending the impasse over raising the nation’s debt limit.

Since their high-profile golf outing last month, Boehner and Obama have held two private meetings to discuss a debt-limit remedy. Details of the meetings weren’t leaked to the media, and the White House has even refused to confirm they occurred.

After successfully navigating the first major legislative battle over a measure to fund the government through the remainder of the fiscal year, the two men have been “building” their relationship, according to a source close to Boehner.

“They are getting to know each other better, they’re talking more often,” the official told The Hill.

Shouldn’t this be good news? After all, Republicans only control the House. In order to get any of the GOP agenda enacted, it will have to get Obama’s signature, as well as passing the Senate. The House cannot dictate policy, after all, and Republicans need cooperation at some point to succeed in getting spending reductions and other major goals of the party in this session. In order to get that kind of cooperation, Boehner needs to build a relationship with the President, who is never irrelevant, as Democrats discovered in 2007-8 when they controlled both chambers of Congress.

Still, Boehner has never really enjoyed the full trust of conservatives, not even when he held the Republican House caucus in unity against the Obama agenda in the first two years. The perception will be that Boehner is likely to get rolled rather than accomplish the rolling himself. People will point to the resolution of the FY2011 budget and their dissatisfaction with the meager level of cuts, and not without some justification, but it’s also true that Boehner has led a sea change in the terms of the debate on Capitol Hill. The debate is no longer whether to cut, but how much and where.

I’m neither encouraged nor discouraged by this development; I’d call it expected. Boehner needs to get cooperation from the White House before he can accomplish anything, and he’s doing his job — and it’s the changed political environment that has Obama suddenly seeking a cross-aisle relationship. Pelosi’s downfall demonstrates how effective Boehner has become in avoiding marginalization himself. Indeed, Democrats seem more suspicious of this development than perhaps conservatives are:

Democrats, meanwhile, have been growing more frustrated with the president for not consulting them more.

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), a respected member who rarely speaks out against the White House, warned the administration this week that it should not take Democratic votes for granted.

In an interview with The New York Times, Whitehouse said called it “a risky thing for the White House to basically take the bet that we can be presented with something at the last minute and we will go for it.”

Some Democrats are very worried that Obama will blink in his negotiations with the GOP. Some of them contend that Boehner got the best of Obama in the negotiations on tax cuts late last year and the fiscal 2011 budget showdown.

Well, he did, in large part because the terms of the debate changed among voters. The midterms delivered that unmistakable message, and Obama needs to respond to it in some credible manner. Democrats in the Senate ignore that reality at their peril, including Whitehouse, who has to stand for re-election in 2012. Rhode Island is usually a reliable Democratic stronghold, but even there voters may be tiring of the spendthrift federal government and those who continue to enable it.

What do you think about the allegedly budding friendship between Boehner and Obama? Take the poll:

In order to get that kind of cooperation, Boehner needs to build a relationship with the President, who is never irrelevant, as Democrats discovered in 2007-8 when they controlled both chambers of Congress.

And as they also discovered in 2009-2010, when they controlled both chambers of Congress.

No, the tea party is being marginalized. Boehner is forming an alliance with Obama and the Democrats to pull the rug out from under the tea party. The Republican establishment has more in common with ruling class Democrats than the tea party, which is a threat to all of them, and they are taking steps to put and end to the tea party threat.

At Thursday’s White House meeting between President Obama and congressional leaders, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner laid out in stark terms the awful economic repercussions of allowing the debt ceiling to lapse. Everyone in the room agreed that defaulting on U.S. debt would be disastrous and that something must be done.

This, more than anything else, makes me think defaulting might be a good idea.

Now Newton-Small says that Barack Obama might make her even more obsolete by directly dealing with her lieutenant, Steny Hoyer, to get the moderate Democrats on board any deal:

Heh. Pelosi beat out Hoyer for the had of caucus position with the help of her henchman, Murtha. Hoyer no doubt has been quietly waiting with the shiv in his hand. If she doesn’t get the House back in 2012, he’ll move in for the kill, and all she’ll have is the lefty loon faction in her caucus for support.

Too bad she will walk away not being held responsible in the least on this earth for all she has done to weaken this nation and hurt its citizens;let alone those that are victims of her supporter and benefactor, Planned Parenthood.

Sounds like he is doing his job to me. Big to do about nothing…if you want an agreement then they have to talk to each other….don’t they? Besides the republicans were calling for obama to get involved… weren’t they?

YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY YOU
YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY YOU
YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY YOU
YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY YOU
YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY YOU
YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY YOU
YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY YOU

I’m not an overly religious kind of guy, but I do find solace in knowing that after Nancy Pelosi has left this Earth, she will indeed enter a hell of some sort and pay for all the awful awful things she has done in her life. She is truly a nasty and wicked old hag that deserves eternal damnation.

It’s funny how many folks are saying the Tea Party has been marginalized. I guess they have no idea how many are on the ground working quietly behind the scenes for a complete change in leadership in 2012.

Some Democrats are very worried that Obama will blink in his negotiations with the GOP. Some of them contend that Boehner got the best of Obama in the negotiations on tax cuts late last year and the fiscal 2011 budget showdown.

Excuse me? The budget negotiations that ended up with less than 400 million in actual spending cuts, instead of the 100 Billion promised by the Republican leadership? Boehner was knocked down, had sand kicked in his face, and his lunch money stolen. Why do we expect results to be different this time?

No, the tea party is being marginalized. Boehner is forming an alliance with Obama and the Democrats to pull the rug out from under the tea party. The Republican establishment has more in common with ruling class Democrats than the tea party, which is a threat to all of them, and they are taking steps to put and end to the tea party threat.

FloatingRock on July 9, 2011 at 2:22 PM

Hey. Floatingrock. If the Tea Party is, according to your own words, being marginalized, they please tell me why the tea party is perceived as a threat to Repubs (and Dems)?

Big Government Spenders in both parties fear the Tea Party. Your just dream on about TP being marginalized.

The Democrats stand to gain enormously from this strategy. As things are now, they are stuck with a fiscal record that is utterly indefensible. In a mere two and a half years, the Obama administration has rung up deficits that dwarf any in our history. Trillions of dollars have been added to the national debt. We have gone for more than two years without having a federal budget in place–which is not only scandalous, but illegal. And President Obama proposed a budget for FY 2012 that was so absurd that it couldn’t garner a single vote in the Senate. The Democrats, based on their dismal record, deserve to go down to a resounding defeat in 2012.

But a last-minute, cosmic bipartisan budget agreement can save them. It will raise taxes, but those tax increases can’t be used as a campaign issue because Republicans will have gone along with them. The debt crisis will still be with us, but it will be hard for Republicans to make much of it because, after all, the recent effort to deal with the debt issue will have been a bipartisan one. And who can complain about the looming entitlements disaster, when Congress has just enacted bipartisan entitlement “reform?” In essence, the Democrats want Republicans to hold hands with them as they go over the waterfall.

Big Government Spenders in both parties fear the Tea Party. Your just dream on about TP being marginalized.

BigAlSouth on July 9, 2011 at 3:24 PM

I know the tea party is a threat to both sides, that’s why both sides are working together and try to pull the rug out from under the tea party by reaching a grand compromise that “settles” important tea party issues. Granted, the issues will be far from settled in reality but as far as the ruling class is concerned it will be officially settled.

I predicted a DINO/RINO alliance months ago… and it sounds like this is it.

Before we get too excited about the reports of Republicans caving, may I point out that on Thursday we were told that the best job report ever was coming out on Friday. I’m not saying that Republicans are capable of disappoint us but I don’t trust the media.

She is relevant and more so now that she has a seat at the table. She was bypassed on past issues like the temp budget but this time any agreement will need Democrat support in order to pass.

lexhamfox on July 9, 2011 at 3:49 PM

Well sure she is – if she wants to filibusterer a resolution to the debt ceiling debate she will get all the credit she wants for the debt default. She will have finished the job she started destroying the Democrat Party in 2010. Go for it Nancy, it’s your legacy SNARK.

Boehner and Obama are making a backroom deal to accomplish a budgetary matter that is supposed to be done through the legislative process. I’m not an expert on the process, but it seems like normally the two sides would release budget proposals, there would be debate in the legislature and a compromise would be reached and voted on. Instead Boehner, who lied about cutting $100 billion and then tried to cover it up with a sham CR bill that only compounded his lies, is participating in backroom deals instead of the proper process. The reason Boehner is engaging in such unseemly behavior, IMO, is because he knows that the tea party is going to steamroll the establishment if they don’t put a stop to it. The establishment would rather Obama have a second Obama term than have a tea party POTUS. At least they can work with Obama, they figure, unlike the tea party who wants to put an end to all of the glorious power and corruption.

Boehner is doing the best he can. He has to negotiate with Democrats. Negotiation isn’t a crazy activity only for RINOs. It’s Boehner’s job as a political leader. He also has to find a way to cut spending that doesn’t backfire on the GOP. Yes, some people will always whine that he didn’t get enough in exchange for whatever tax hikes the Democrats require in exchange, and some on the fringes of the Tea Party will always be fringy. Our cause would be better served if rather than this crazy whining about Boehner selling out, some people called their congressman and ask them to help Boehner cut spending. We should all pray for Boehner’s negotiation skills and for the reasonableness of Stan Hoyer and Obama.

Obama will be touting any deals he makes next year as signs of effective bipartisanship. If he made them with Boehner, it will make the Mediscare campaign by Pelosi and Reid less convincing. We need middle of the road voters to believe they can safely put Republicans in charge of the Senate as well as the house. Forcing default would reinforce the Lefty message that Republicans are destructive, uncaring, and SCARY.

If the Republicans refuse to negotiate Obama can blame anything that happens on them and he will. You may argue that Obama can choose to service the debt and just halt other spending or that he can just run the printing presses but if he chooses to let debt payments default, the media will put it all on the Republicans as forcing a default.

How far will Republican lawmakers go to protect millionaires? Those who think a default on the federal government’s credit seems implausible should take a sobering look at the “closed” signs dotting Minnesota. The Republican Party there readily shut down the state’s government on Friday by refusing to raise taxes on the 7,700 Minnesotans who make more than $1 million a year.

This shut down was actually forced by Governor Mark Dayton who refused to call a special session so that a continuing resolution could pass; but that obviously did not deter the lefty press from saying it was all the Republicans fault.

I didn’t vote in the poll because I don’t think what Boehner and Obama are building is friendship, exactly. You know that old saying: Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Frankly, I hope Boehner is schooling the ignorant Obama in fiscal and political reality.

No but I want to think strategically. Look at how things will be spun and whether you can unspin it. Our goal is to win the Senate and the Presidency so we can repeal Obamacare, restart and expand oil drilling, logging, natural gas and hard rock mineral production and get the stiffling regulations on the Finanacial industry rationalized. Those are the long term goals that will reignite the economy. Letting yourself get painted as uncaring and extreme will make it less likely that we can achieve the big goals.

but that obviously did not deter the lefty press from saying it was all the Republicans fault.

KW64 on July 9, 2011 at 4:46 PM

Exactly, the MSM lies no matter what we do. The NYT is nothing more than a left wing propaganda outlet, why you even bother to read it is beyond me. I don’t know anybody that reads it, which is one of the reasons I hang out here at HA so that I know what Americas enemies think without actually having to swim in their sewage. I’d rather let AP and Ed do it for me, that’s what they get paid for.

Letting yourself get painted as uncaring and extreme will make it less likely that we can achieve the big goals.

Well, I advise that you get used to being painted that way because it’s going to happen no matter what we do. The only way around it is if we do what the MSM says we should do. Stray even slightly and your friends in the MSM will turn on you in an instant, like they did with McCain.

The NYT is nothing more than a left wing propaganda outlet, why you even bother to read it is beyond me.

You need to know what the mental wind-up dolls at work who come in and quote it along with NPR as their justification for nonsense are reading. Know your enemy. (The Wall Street Journal serves as a good inoculation to keep the NYT and NPR from starting a mental illness.)

Actually, the MSM turned on McCain even though he was beholden to them for many years and continued to do so. They turned on him because he was the lesser of two evils and they preferred the greater evil.

Much has been made about how intransigent the ‘Pubs have been around tax increases. To a certain extent, I agree with the stand they’ve taken. Many of the “loopholes” that the Dems want to remove are well known to those of us who pay attention. They want to take away standard deductions for Big Oil, for example, in a “soak the rich” manner that is pretty rank.

However, there are certainly many loopholes that really could be removed (the ethanol subsidies, for example; or the “absentee farmer” tax breaks, as another), as much in the name of equity as anything else. If Boehner were to come up with a list of changes, with the proposed increase in revenue they would provide, and not buckle under to the Dems, he would definitely establish an even more powerful position in the negotiations. Present the list, and say that they are on the table, but that the Dems need to produce even deeper cuts (and real ones; not faux ones) in the budget. Only then will an agreement be reached.

I don’t have all that much faith that he could pull it off, to be honest. And he’d have to make damn sure that the Dems understand that he’s not opening the door to larger across-the-board tax increases. Which is the biggest concern, I think, amongst the true FiCons. Give the Dems an inch, and all that….

I think it’s worth the gamble, though. And he could play the hand as a “take it or leave it” proposition. If the Ds pushed for more “tax revenue increases”, he could pull the proposal back off the table and tell them to take a flying leap. I think there’s enough alt-media willing to run with the story that the MSM couldn’t bury the truth behind the negotiations.

It’s time for hardball. And the right tactical plays could turn into major strategic wins.

It’s funny how many folks are saying the Tea Party has been marginalized. I guess they have no idea how many are on the ground working quietly behind the scenes for a complete change in leadership in 2012.

They’re not gone. Trust me.

Key West Reader on July 9, 2011 at 3:02 PM

Nope, still here and kicking it! Got enough petition signatures to put an Amendment to the State Constitution on the ballot to stop Obamacare in OH.

All you need to know about the House Democrats is that they keep voting for this out of touch loon for leader. Her delusional comments would be be all over the press if she were a Republican. Instead they are too busy trying to make Bachman sound trite.