Just saw The Last Jedi. Great movie ..I wasn't hyped or very invested, so for me, just a very good show.
Watching the credits as the cleaning crew stood (with strained patience) in the wings kinda felt like an unapologetic and uncouth licking of the plate after a fantastic meal.

I liked The Last Jedi. It's a movie that feels like it's aware that it's a space opera, acknowledges it, and runs with it. The portrayal of the mechanics of the Force, I think, is the best in this movie against every other Star Wars. Indeed, I think the Force should've always been like this.

The Force in the original and prequel trilogies always felt the way combat feels in a lot of RPGs. Like a distinct mechanic, a separate field of play. Every great Jedi we ever encounter in prior movies loves to tell us how the Force binds us and all living things, how it's an extension of the senses, but we never see it. Prior to VIII, the most we see of the Force is

Literally handwaving away incredible explanations in-universe

Telekinesis on objects and people, including the wielder themselves

Projecting oneself after death

A minor illusion (tricking the droidekas on board the trade federation ship)

Choking people

Anakin's self-fulfilling prophecies

Deflecting blaster bolts.

Last Jedi took these things to their logical conclusions, and more importantly, showed them to us. We saw Luke conjure a major illusion like the wizard he has become, and thereafter become one with the Force like Obi-Wan before him. We saw Ben and Rey exploring a Force bond; finally those words from 1977 in Alec Guiness' voice become visible: it surrounds us and penetrates us and binds the galaxy together.

(Maybe not so much the "It's an energy field" bit.)

I have been avoiding most of the internet's opinions on this movie, but I can imagine a lot of people are bothered by Leia's Force pull maneuver. I don't think it's all that unreasonable, though. We've known for years that Leia is Force sensitive, and even that she would have been the one to do what Luke did had he failed. I see two possible explanations, neither of which exists contrary to the other:

Leia, in the gap between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, had some practice honing her affinity for the Force, by Luke's advice or otherwise.
Force sensitives, when in danger, have an instinctive reaction which includes a surge of clarity and focus long enough for them to reach safety.

Admittedly I don't have a lot of precedent to suggest here from the movies, although as an element of fiction (particularly, fantasy with magic in it), Golden Sun uses a similar explanation for its adepts. Some psynergy (the game's magic) is unleashed only when it is needed, which shields the protagonists from an attack which would've shapeshifted them, and also endows them with occasional critical hits, all explained in-universe.

The cliffside meditation bit with Rey and Luke was important too, and not just for the reed slap gag (which I thought was hilarious). We got to see the Force as Rey feels it. We got to be inside her head, and feel what an untrained Force adept experiences, and struggles with.

Perhaps too a hint that "dark" is misunderstood. Luke berates her for not resisting the pull of the Force cavern beneath the island, but like Luke's experience on Dagobah, it was a reflective moment. They saw themselves, both in a literal sense and an introspective one.

It's not the best Star Wars film (and I certainly won't open the can of worms of debating which one is the best, but I'm glad to see that the creators of this most recent trilogy are willing to expand upon Lucas' original concept of space magic, rather than merely repeat it.

Overall, ok movie. But they could have done without many of the slapstick jokes...

Snoke was disposed of in an unglorious way.
Leia was resurrected in a nonsensical way.
Luke was also just disposed of like that (so Disney does not need to take heat from Mark Hamill anymore?)
And choosing a gravity based (bombs falling down) bomber in space was a poor tactical choice.
Jodas force-ghost, limits applying his powers to burning down trees... (although summoning an athmospheric lightning strike is several magnitudes more powerful than what the emperor could pull off)

Lemme just say, that this was intentional. JJ Abrams doesn't understand space at all, something obvious from this movie. (with the maneuvers that Poe pulls off at the start for sure) But more so through the Space Artillery fire.
In space, your shot goes straight, it doesn't curve unless it is self propelled. Their energy shots were just the heavy artillery on a naval battleship.

The entire space car chase part of the movie, was just that, a space themed naval car chase.
Really quite retarded, but with the context of Naval space battles, then the concept of WW2 style bombers makes more sense. Not any real logical sense, but sense in that the other logical fallacies are upheld by this one.

The entire movie is basically space wizards having a WW2 naval battle. And then some more attempts at copying Empire Strikes Back.
On the whole, I enjoyed the movie, but I can definitely see why others dislike it, and a 7/10 is a fair score.

I think the second installment (of the new trilogy) did a disservice to the franchise at large.
The first movie had at least the precious "Star Wars Feeling", also by using a lot of the classic techniques in scene-transitions, and using a fair amount of practical effects.
Beeing a re imagination of the original (new Hope) was a safe choice, even with that being easy to criticize.

But this new movie: it feels like its trolling the fans of the series. (not so much casual viewers who just want a nice popcorn movie)
It constantly use the method of twists (oh, i gotcha), to bull the viewer.
Luke not taking the lightsaber, but throwing it away in a slapstick fashion, even though he has no idea why Ray is there. "Gotcha!"
Leia dying (frozen in open space), but then waking up doing the Harry-Potter witch-flight scene "Gotcha!"
Kylo killing Snoke and helping Ray, everyone expects that he turns sides, but then he is the new evil one "Gotcha!"
Ray about to know the backstory of her parent, ... but they are just some junkers ... Ray then "hm, ok" ... "Gotcha!"
Luke saving the remaining rebels by "force-projecting" himself, but in the end dies anyhow on some stone "Gotcha!"
That purple hair Admiral-Lady having a secret plan, but not telling anyone, even if it means totally unnecessary conflict, while under attack "Gotcha!"
...and many more
Pushing in constant twists (and slapstick jokes), and basically ridiculing the story threats of the previous movie is not "daring" writing, its just trolling of fans in my opinion.
I think the movie will have a negative effect on the third installment.
I mean in the end, how much can be written for that. Almost anyone from the secondary cast is dead. Kylo is the evil one.
How complex can that story end? (Ray defeating or turning Kylo in some saber battle... hm, not much more to look forward, as all other story threats kind of got chopped off)

I think the second installment (of the new trilogy) did a disservice to the franchise at large.
The first movie had at least the precious "Star Wars Feeling", also by using a lot of the classic techniques in scene-transitions, and using a fair amount of practical effects.
Beeing a re imagination of the original (new Hope) was a safe choice, even with that being easy to criticize.

But this new movie: it feels like its trolling the fans of the series. (not so much casual viewers who just want a nice popcorn movie)
It constantly use the method of twists (oh, i gotcha), to bull the viewer.
Luke not taking the lightsaber, but throwing it away in a slapstick fashion, even though he has no idea why Ray is there. "Gotcha!"
Leia dying (frozen in open space), but then waking up doing the Harry-Potter witch-flight scene "Gotcha!"
Kylo killing Snoke and helping Ray, everyone expects that he turns sides, but then he is the new evil one "Gotcha!"
Ray about to know the backstory of her parent, ... but they are just some junkers ... Ray then "hm, ok" ... "Gotcha!"
Luke saving the remaining rebels by "force-projecting" himself, but in the end dies anyhow on some stone "Gotcha!"
That purple hair Admiral-Lady having a secret plan, but not telling anyone, even if it means totally unnecessary conflict, while under attack "Gotcha!"
...and many more
Pushing in constant twists (and slapstick jokes), and basically ridiculing the story threats of the previous movie is not "daring" writing, its just trolling of fans in my opinion.
I think the movie will have a negative effect on the third installment.
I mean in the end, how much can be written for that. Almost anyone from the secondary cast is dead. Kylo is the evil one.
How complex can that story end? (Ray defeating or turning Kylo in some saber battle... hm, not much more to look forward, as all other story threats kind of got chopped off)

You know what? This is spot on, and a far better description of why 8 bugs me.

And Snoke isn't dead, probably the same way Luke wasn't on Krall. He wanted to know Kylo's intentions and staged the whole thing to prove him. What Hamill thinks about the character he plays is just an opinion. An actor is there to play the character, not to write it. Maybe that Luke was thinking about killing a student (and his nephew, at that) was a no-no for a lot of people, but if you're the only one knowing what he knew and what can happen if the boy lives... Maybe your PoV isn't all that balanced and thinking about family or ethics isn't the first priority. And he was visibly upset about it. I think the point of that plot was comparing both PoVs to tell us "hey, from a certain PoV..." everything is possible.
For a lot of people, Leia marypoppinging her way back to the ship was a big-WTF, but the not-casuals know very well that Leia can use the Force (besides of sensing Force users now and then, like in the movies). It happened before in Legacy-books. For me, the problem there was the meta-thinking about CF's death in real life. Was that changed because of this, or it was always that way in the movie? The Director said before that her role didn't change after her death, but we don't know if small details did (like writing her off out of screen in between movies instead of killing her on screen)
I liked the way they played the Kylo/Rei relationship. And the battle was fantastic. And the resolution after it wasn't at all what I expected. So good call all in all.
The whole Finn/Rose story was a filler, but it served its purpose.
And Yoda.... oh that puppet Yoda... magnificent!

For a lot of people, Leia marypoppinging her way back to the ship was a big-WTF, but the not-casuals know very well that Leia can use the Force (besides of sensing Force users now and then, like in the movies). It happened before in Legacy-books.

Um, I've read all of the Legends novels (books) ranging from the time right after VI and going forward till the beginning of the New Jedi Order book series. As far as I'm aware, that kind of force pull really isn't possible, especially after being exposed to vacuum for that long. Besides that, Leia was never trained in telekinesis in the novels. The most she ever did was use the force for calming herself before stressful situations and using it to help her perceive if someone was lying to her. She was a politician not a Jedi Knight.

Um, I've read all of the Legends novels (books) ranging from the time right after VI and going forward till the beginning of the New Jedi Order book series. As far as I'm aware, that kind of force pull really isn't possible, especially after being exposed to vacuum for that long. Besides that, Leia was never trained in telekinesis in the novels. The most she ever did was use the force for calming herself before stressful situations and using it to help her perceive if someone was lying to her. She was a politician not a Jedi Knight.

But she knows pushing and pulling is possible and in a near dead situation she could try everything to stay alive. And... that kind of force pull don't being possible? eh? I mean, those big jumps in the prequels are all about push yourself up and then pull yourself down to the right place. At least that's how I see it, because I don't suppose that force users are masters at math to calculate the right push to performe such precission manouvers

Um, I've read all of the Legends novels (books) ranging from the time right after VI and going forward till the beginning of the New Jedi Order book series. As far as I'm aware, that kind of force pull really isn't possible, especially after being exposed to vacuum for that long. Besides that, Leia was never trained in telekinesis in the novels. The most she ever did was use the force for calming herself before stressful situations and using it to help her perceive if someone was lying to her. She was a politician not a Jedi Knight.

But she knows pushing and pulling is possible and in a near dead situation she could try everything to stay alive. And... that kind of force pull don't being possible? eh? I mean, those big jumps in the prequels are all about push yourself up and then pull yourself down to the right place. At least that's how I see it, because I don't suppose that force users are masters at math to calculate the right push to performe such precission manouvers

She's untrained. The Jedi in episode 1 were trained from a very young age, so it's really not a valid comparison. In all instances of telekinesis that I've seen in Star Wars it's the user who stays in one place and the object which is being acted upon which moves. So, Leia should have moved the entire ship to herself instead of "flying" to it. My point about Leia's force use in the novels still stands.

Even Obi-Wan when fighting Jango Fett hat a hard time to "jump". He did not have the ability to just levitate onto the platform. And he was certainly much more trained than Leia could ever be.
The movie is simply throwing in implausible uses of the force, just for a short gag moment. (Lukes sudden ability of projection, Jodas lightning strike...)
This might fit into "Family Guy" or "the Simpsons", but not in a franchise that kind of lives of somewhat coherent world building.

The movie feels like a season finale from a TV show that went on for too long, and has a hard time to pull out novel exiting stuff, and wants to rush to an end of production, before getting boring and cancelled.

Disney risks to ridicule its own franchise. When everything is possible, nothing has much meaning.
And Star Wars did not get that big just from fancy space battles and funny creatures alone. That is something other IPs can easily come up with too...

Last edited by Damocles on Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.