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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by ellindsey

Is Haley targeting Nale purely by the sound of his voice? (Presumably she can't see through the smoke) What are the rules for doing that in D&D?

If you make a Listen check to pinpoint the square it's coming from (which should be fairly easy for a high-level rogue who has, by all probability, at least a few ranks in the skill), you can attack with a 50% miss chance. Appropriately enough, half of her arrows missed.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Lord Tyger

Suggestion is Language-Dependent, and "
A language-dependent spell uses intelligible language as a medium for communication. If the target cannot understand or cannot hear what the caster of a language-dependant spell says the spell fails."

In other words - you can have the spell cast upon you, but the caster cannot make you do anything with it.

So delicious.

Linguist and Invoker of Orcus of the Rudisplorker's Guild

Originally Posted by The Giant

Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism.

Originally Posted by The Giant

No author should have to take the time to say, "This little girl ISN'T evil, folks!" in order for the reader to understand that. It should be assumed that no first graders are irredeemably Evil unless the text tells you they are.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

I think he's expressing the thoughts verbally precisely because Nale cannot hear them. It's a reflection of his utter disdain for Nale, and also, of course, to let the reader in on his thoughts.

Except that Nale failing to heed the advice and running headlong into death isn't actually good for Tarquin's survival in any way I can tell. Yes, Nale's kind of a screwup, but that doesn't make him a net liability. A hand gesture or shoulder grab might have been smarter.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Sorator

I don't think having Belkar be blinded would really help him in a fight, heh. Pretty sure he's just deafened, and suffering a Spot penalty due to the smokestick (it does seem to be dissipating already, and he was above it to begin with).

I'm also looking forward to Haley and Roy's next moves, as well as what Elan has been up to... I half expect him to pop in covered in jam again (a la 206).

The smoke is what I was referring to. There's him and his target, nothing else in the world for the moment.

Originally Posted by M'aiq the Liar

The Wood Elves are not made of wood and the Sea Elves are not made of water. M'aiq still wonders about the High Elves.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Have Belkar's Favored Enemies ever been stated? I'd think Human would be a pretty good choice for a psychopath in a world mostly dominated by humans.

We're pretty sure Humanoid( Reptilian) which includes Lizardmen, Troglodytes, and Kobolds is one of his favored enemies, and Humaoind (Goblinoid) which includes Hobgoblins, Goblins, and I think Bugbears, is another likely one, but I don't think any have been officially stated... so Humanoid (Human), Humanoid (Gnome) or Humanoid (Elf) are all possibilities.

Originally Posted by eras10

For an uncannily crafty and rarely rattled tactical genius, Tarquin does a lot of the verbal explanations to the guy he knows is deaf, there. Or should know. Or figure out immediately.

Originally Posted by wingnutx

Exposition for the audience.

Actually I think this is more along the lines of people talking to characters in TV and movies... You know they can't hear you when you say , "Don't go into the scary basement alone. Don't open the door. Don't stick your hand in the sink with the disposal. Don't say the incantation while looking in a mirror under a full moon on Friday the 13th while standing in a pentagram with candles made from ground up human bone mixed with human ear wax with human hair wicks." You just have to say it cause you hope that somehow they're realize they're doing something incredibly idiotic. So too even though he knows Nale is deaf, 'Ninja Thog' is saying "Don't advance. Don't shout so people know where you are in the smoke. Don't panic. Don't be a fool"

Originally Posted by ellindsey

Is Haley targeting Nale purely by the sound of his voice? (Presumably she can't see through the smoke) What are the rules for doing that in D&D?

Yes, she is... which is revealed by the exposition and by the arrows missing. The Smoke counts as partial cover.

Originally Posted by Lord Tyger

Suggestion is Language-Dependent, and "
A language-dependent spell uses intelligible language as a medium for communication. If the target cannot understand or cannot hear what the caster of a language-dependant spell says the spell fails."

The spell succeeds, Suggestion doesn't fail just because they can't hear you, but it becomes a gesture and charades game with limited effect if you can't communicate verbally or mentally with the victim. If Belkar could hear a suggestion, he would most likely obey, but until he can, he will act on his own nature, which is very bad for Nale. This isn't the first time Nale has used the spell on Belkar, but I actually think this is the funnier time... which says alot, cause Belkar singing show tunes while trying to kill Durkon was pretty funny.

Originally Posted by Lemur Bear

If a trapdoor has Line of Effect in order to affect Belkar, would that mean Malack and Quar are affected? Would that banish Quar if they are affected or possibly just kill him? I feel like that happening would cause Malack to realize that Holy Word was used seeing as he himself is a high level cleric. I partially hope that Malack recognizes the spell, realize this could mean the death of Nale and burst through a steel door infuriated by the potential kill steal. Extra points if it is in time to save Tarquin or Nale.

Sadly, I don't think this bodes well for either Belkar or Durkon. Tarquin could easily kill either of them if he actually puts the effort in. Once he realizes that he is without support from Malack, he may pull a trump card or two out to ensure his survival.

I think Qarr is in serious trouble. Malack may not be as effective as you think, and Tarquin is too smart to stay when he knows his idiot son is outmatched and outclassed by his other fool of a son's brilliant tactical genius bodyguard.

-------------------------------------------

I do want to point out for anyone who thinks Tarquin is a brilliant bastard... drop brilliant and bas, and you're closer to the truth. Remember, he sired Nale and Elan, and neither of them is as smart as Nale and Tarquin think one of them is (Nale thinks himself a genius, and Tarquin thinks Elan is a genius... so do the math)

----------------------------

Ooo, and I love how Belkar found a new way to do Death from Above!!! He's so dementedly cute when he goes all vicious and stabby.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Tarquin explains how Holy Word functions so people (especially non-D&D players) get the Belkar gag.

The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.

Their: a possessive pronoun like “her” or “our”There: refers to a place ("the Kobold is over THERE"), or to indicate the existence of something, or to mention something for the first time. ("THERE is a Halfling sneaking up on him")They're: a contraction of “they are.”

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

I was going to worry that the delayed update schedule caused by the kickstarter drive could mmake some readers leave, but I doubt it will happen as long as the strip is that good...

well, that's one aspect of deafening that is mostly overlooked in tabletop gaming: a deafened party cannot communicate, and will not coordinate well. add the smoke, and they are totally scattered. 2 of the linear guild are already down, nale is in a bad shape. too bad tarquin is powerful enough he can probably take the whole order by himself, or that ambush would have worked perfectly. On the other hand, I don't think tarquin would want to kill the oots, he need them to fight xykon.

And I'm still laughing at the belkar scene. it was so brilliant!

In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Nale has to be running low on health by this point. Two arrows from Haley, the trap in the last strip, and now Belkar's chopping at him. If this isn't Nale's Last Stand, I'll be pretty surprised.

Maybe, maybe not. Haley can't sneak attack a concealed target and Belkar is a low STR, DEX based warrior with fairly ordinary daggers (presumably magical, but not flaming or anything that adds a ton of extra damage). That means maybe 20 points or so of damage from the arrows (+5 bow, as I recall) and maybe another 20 or so from the three dagger hits... it all comes down to A) how hard the trap hit and B) how Nale's levels are split. If he has more fighter levels than anything else (which I consider likely) then he may still have a decent chunk of HP remaining. If he's an even split Fighter / Rogue / Sorcerer then he's probably hurting... but I suspect he'd be a lot better at magic and trap finding if that were the case.

My personal guess: he's still over half health and not in any immediate danger (though another couple of rounds could change things a lot). However, if Belkar has favored enemy: Human then Nale may be worse off.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

I was going to worry that the delayed update schedule caused by the kickstarter drive could mmake some readers leave, but I doubt it will happen as long as the strip is that good...

well, that's one aspect of deafening that is mostly overlooked in tabletop gaming: a deafened party cannot communicate, and will not coordinate well. add the smoke, and they are totally scattered. 2 of the linear guild are already down, nale is in a bad shape. too bad tarquin is powerful enough he can probably take the whole order by himself, or that ambush would have worked perfectly. On the other hand, I don't think tarquin would want to kill the oots, he need them to fight xykon.

And I'm still laughing at the belkar scene. it was so brilliant!

Don't forget that there's two party members blocked off from the rest, as well - Malack and Qarr have to find their way around that wall-trap-thingy before they can contribute to the battle at all (and Qarr may well be dead/banished by that holy word as well).

Originally Posted by Concept

Fleeing in a blind panic is only marginally better than moping!

+1 to you sir.

LGBTitP

Originally Posted by ti'esar

I just want to say that if this isn't the weirdest line of argument I've seen this thread take yet, it's not for lack of trying.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by StrykerX

If he has more fighter levels than anything else (which I consider likely) then he may still have a decent chunk of HP remaining. If he's an even split Fighter / Rogue / Sorcerer then he's probably hurting... but I suspect he'd be a lot better at magic and trap finding if that were the case.

He must have at least 8 levels of sorcerer to be able to cast dimension door (thanks, geekery thread!). That's more than half his levels in the lowest-hp class.

GW

My Motto:

Forum Motto:

There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive

Originally Posted by The Giant & Yendor

GIANT IN THE PLAYGROUND: On a saner forum,
there wouldn't have been such speculation.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

If Nale dies, Sabine can visit him in Hell. So could the IFCC, for that matter.

Ditto if Belkar does soon, too.

The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

By the way, can anyone come up with a plausible means by which OOTS didn't see Malack at the tail end of that dungeon party?

On top of everything else, Tarquin's cover is blown. How on earth could Malack be working with Nale, but not Tarquin?

And if Tarquin is interested enough in hiding his identity as to go through the trouble he has, does it make sense to bring Malack in at all?

I don't really understand why Tarquin is hiding his identity anyway, but now it's double-pointless. Doing so was feasible as long as Malack stayed 1000 feet up, but not even Belkar could fail to put these pieces together now.

EDIT: To answer my own question earlier, I guess Nale's rogue levels allow a limited amount of trapfinding. As good as Sabine's? I doubt it.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Fish

If Nale dies, Sabine can visit him in Hell. So could the IFCC, for that matter.

Ditto if Belkar does soon, too.

I never really that about that. If Sabine's orders involve Nale dying eventually, she could carry out her orders (if she makes it look like an accident) while still being truly in love with Nale. To her, Nale dying isn't that big of a deal, in the long run.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

And so we once again see a return of spells not affecting Belkar! Oh, and Nale is stupid.

If he has more fighter levels than anything else (which I consider likely) then he may still have a decent chunk of HP remaining. If he's an even split Fighter / Rogue / Sorcerer then he's probably hurting... but I suspect he'd be a lot better at magic and trap finding if that were the case.

Well in Greek/Roman mythology gods fell in love with mortals all the time. Of course, I don't actually think Sabine has any feelings for Nale at all, she's probably just using him for the benefit of the IFCC.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

I just noticed how Tarquin describes the spell without admitting the existence of an alignment system (as he says it affects anyone "not on the side of the angels", not anyone non-Good), in-keeping with his whole philosophy. That's a very nice detail.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Gnome Alone

Except Durkon is the one he threw in the fight outside. (I was a bit confused with the way that looked; trying to figure out if he was using some Tome of Battle maneuver or something.) Although perhaps he will have trouble replicating this feat, on account of Durkon's stability; maybe he just got lucky the first time.

Ah, true. Let's hope Tarquin just got lucky. I think it would be funny to see Durkon's stability pop up again.

Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by StrykerX

Maybe, maybe not. Haley can't sneak attack a concealed target and Belkar is a low STR, DEX based warrior with fairly ordinary daggers (presumably magical, but not flaming or anything that adds a ton of extra damage). That means maybe 20 points or so of damage from the arrows (+5 bow, as I recall) and maybe another 20 or so from the three dagger hits... it all comes down to A) how hard the trap hit and B) how Nale's levels are split. If he has more fighter levels than anything else (which I consider likely) then he may still have a decent chunk of HP remaining. If he's an even split Fighter / Rogue / Sorcerer then he's probably hurting... but I suspect he'd be a lot better at magic and trap finding if that were the case.

My personal guess: he's still over half health and not in any immediate danger (though another couple of rounds could change things a lot). However, if Belkar has favored enemy: Human then Nale may be worse off.

Nale is level 16, he has at least 8 levels in Sorcerer (casts Dimension Door) and at least 2 levels in Rogue (has Evasion). At most, he has 6 levels in Fighter.