I think the issue here, as with any pug, is there are two types of groups:

The thing is, if I wanted a insanely smooth run I would just run with guildies. I can do flex with 10 people so I wouldn't even have to get my entire guild to show up. I get maybe 2-3 people to bring mains (we're all around 570ish + / -) and the entire thing would be a joke.

But if I was out in the world pugging people? I would think myself a jackass to expect people to have 540-550 ilvl to do content that drops 540 gear. I'd probably bottom out around 515-520 ilvl because that's actually reasonable to clear the content without being a complete carry. The reason LFR and flex exists is to allow casual players to see the content. I wouldn't expect the bracket of players flex is aimed at to have a 550 ilvl.

See *maybe* there's a couple groups that fit into that group 1 and are pugging for the "smooth run" but the problem is A LOT of mediocre players start adopting that philosophy and turn it into a standard and then it gets ruined for the audience the actual difficulty is aimed at.

The issue with something like this is that if you are going to random pug, you need to be aware that people might "suck" and you should at least try to help them improve. Wanting a smooth run with experienced people usually gets translated as "run with your guild", not "Pug with outrageous demands". Seeing as the purpose of Flex was to bring back that feel of 10-man raiding in Wrath (easier content for more laid back guilds) it does come off a little hypocritical (but not unexpected as the same thing happened with Wrath 10-mans) to treat content meant to be accessible as exclusive.

I think this is a perfect case where the community will take anything and twist it for their own benefit. Flex was introduced as a lighter-mode raid outlet for guilds that struggled in normal mode, but you see high requirements from people who don't want to take the time to help the community improve.

i kinda dissagree i rememebr but cant quote exact words from blue quote but it was somewhere along lines that flex is meant for ORGANIZED groups and blizzard dont expect flex to be clearfed by pugs in first few weeks of patch - guess what it is still first few weeks of patch (final wing isnt even out yet) a people already nag that they cant just jump into pugs like into lfr (ye they can only they want to join best of the best and are soo dissapointed when others dont want them and they have to settle for little lower groups) . high itlv is a part of organization of those groups. dont blame community for acting exackly like people act irl.

someone before was mentioning how funny is when in trade people lf 540+ for hc scenarios - well do experiment yourelf but on high pop server set this requirement on prime hours 18-21 and count how many 550/560+ people ull get whispers from in 1-2 minutes because if i do this i dont have to wait longer then 15 seconds to have my group for mega fast vp full.

People do this for pugs so they have a better chance of a quick run. The funny thing is I got in a flex yesterday where I was the lowest ilvl dps at 516 yet I ended up top 3 every fight in dps, only beat by people with 30+ higher ilvl.

Who are you guys to tell me what my conditions should be for a pug raid? I do not know any of you, and I value my time more than I value your potential competence.

If I want a group of only 540+, then I will make just that. Flex is progression for some people, thats fine and great. I was in the same boat 3 weeks ago, at only 515ish. I have alts that ilevel as well. I have no problem joining lower geared flex runs on them.

But now I only run it for valor and the chance to get tier pieces + trinkets on my main. There are many people like me, overgeared for flex with legendary cloaks, but still progressing through normals and starting heroics. I have no problem filling in spots with 540 or even 545+ people for flex. It could very well be the case you are a more competent player in your 515 timeless island gear than players in 550 gear,

Flex was intended for guilds that have difficulties clearing normal modes and had/have logistical issues with raid size. If you want to get into a flex run join a guild, make some friends in game with similar goals or use OQ/other premade maker. Complaining that pugs in trade want a specific ilvl or experience is pointless, what do you expect to be done? Blizzard will not force people to lower their pug requirements, nor should they. I still see level 90 requirements and even ilvl requirements for past expansion raids. It is what it is, adapt.

Flex was intended for guilds that have difficulties clearing normal modes and had/have logistical issues with raid size. If you want to get into a flex run join a guild, make some friends in game with similar goals or use OQ/other premade maker. Complaining that pugs in trade want a specific ilvl or experience is pointless, what do you expect to be done? Blizzard will not force people to lower their pug requirements, nor should they. I still see level 90 requirements and even ilvl requirements for past expansion raids. It is what it is, adapt.

How can you say such a thing? I pay a sub fee just like they do, I should be allowed in every group I try to get in.

Right, because there aren't already about a dozen other flex groups that only have a 515 ilevel requirement on oqueue/openraid? You guys complaining about people having high standards for their pugs act like they're the only ones organizing things.

Case in point when I look at OQ right now out of a possible 32 flex groups only 3 of them have a 535+ requirement, so no... I think you guys have plenty of opportunity to gain experience.

Seriously, just let the raiders group with themselves and have their fast runs.

I personally see nothing wrong with it. I tend to do the same thing when I pug them. Bottom line is I want to get through it as quickly and painless as possible. I tend to be willing to take others with lower gear so long as I know they are alts to someone that is decent and been through.

agree with this person and my ilvl is 569, item level does not determine your opinions just because you meet/don't meet a standard people require for raids, some people are just unreasonable.

There's nothing unreasonable about it, no one is saying "you can't flex without 540 gear" they're just saying "I want this done quickly because it's a pain in the ass". I did one last week that required 550+ and most were well above that, so much better than watching people drag themselves through it with 60-80k dps.

Right, because there aren't already about a dozen other flex groups that only have a 515 ilevel requirement on oqueue/openraid? You guys complaining about people having high standards for their pugs act like they're the only ones organizing things.

Let me tell you a story of a french player on EU servers.
Flex raids just opened, he wasn't really interested, but his eyes sometimes wonder on the chat window.

Then he saw this announcement : "search 525+ ilvl for SoO Flex".
He thought : "that's kinda high for a raid difficulty between LFR and normal. But nevermind I don't know the ilvl for normal raids".
Some seconds later, he read again an announcement : "normal guild starting SoO in normal search 520+ ilvl"
Player : "what ? How come ? Why a raid with lower difficulty ask for higher gear level ?"

He searched the internet, wondering what min ilvl does SoO flex need to enter.
He didn't see many testimonies about Flex, just people praising it and rarely real feedbacks.
He continues to search and continued to look at these announcements for Flex and he even tried Oqeueu (ilvl 515 for ToT not for SoO).
That's how he began to continue to see these requirements going higher and higher (this thread have good examples)
The player still asks himself : "why ?"

I level isn't "required" to do flex considering I did Flex2 tanking on a 48X DK so it's not that gear is required more that it is needed to compensate for lack of skill or knowledge of the fight. Guess the question is how many iLevels does it take to fix stupid? =P Forming a pug you have to assume that everyone is a goober so can only really go by other factors like iLevel or kills. We were mostly an alt run + friends of guildies so the amount of derp was fairly limited.

I can understand for the achievement/gearing up holes from Normal/transmog type runs wanting to just stick to experienced well geared players to make the runs go by ASAP. I can't really fault that behavior. Though if it's the majority of runs available they may need to consider a way to make it more attractive for people of gear levels intended for Flex some how so it serves as an avenue for the people that can't do normal like they wanted.

The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

These requirements really absolutely baffle me. But I can also see why these requirements are established in the first place.

Since I dinged 90 on my mage Ive been working tirelessly to get my ilvl up (currently 512) and LFR 40-50+ minute ques are not helping at all (mind you getting into a partial run and the group cant get past the boss they're on)

I got into a flex wing 1 run thanks to oque yesterday, and I was the lowest ilvl geared dps, I beat everyone on dps on every fight except for one dk that knew how to play. The point is that its all about the player, the perceived reality is that a low ilvl player = bad and a high level ilvl = good. Take what you will from this assumption.

Oh and by the way there was a warrior that joined in all pvp gear doing like 50k dps, when asked to go tank he said yeah i have tank gear, all he did was put on a shield and thats it, that was his "tank" gear. He was promptly kicked.

Requirements are there to improve the risk assessment. Requiring "experienced" players gives better chances of the player not being a fucking noob
Requiring 540+ or 550+ or 505+ ilvl gives better chances of not wiping based on the mechanics/numbers combination. Also abit tightly connected to the "skill" of the player. Think from optimization(gems etc) to him having too much /played at lvl 90 but still having only 530ilvl because he is not "into raiding" that much---> High chances of him not being a good raider

So someone with requirements, desire to form a freaking "elite roster" is his fucking choice and subsequently he will have to try harder and wait/spend more time to achieve that or more correctly to hook up with people that want the same thing!

So if after 1month, you see an openraid event for Flex SoO requiring 565ilvl+ dont worry my friend!!, the creator of the event is just a guy that wanted to do so, because he hmm i dont know he is hungry! possibly that could be it!