Obama is an American. No, really. Update: Shocker – Berg a truther?

posted at 11:21 am on October 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

I really thought we’d put this conspiracy theory to rest over the summer, but it has arisen like a zombie yet again to suck the credibility out of the conservative blogosphere. I have had at least 40 e-mails begging me to watch this video featuring Phillip Berg, a PUMA suing Barack Obama and the Democratic Party to prove Obama’s citizenship — even though Obama has already produced a certification of live birth from Hawaii that would get him a passport any day of the week:

Last week, we got tons of e-mail purporting to claim that Berg had won in court and Obama had three days to produce proof of citizenship. It turned out that someone had posted an exemplar of the order, produced by the plaintiff in case the judge granted their motion. In other words, it meant nothing, and neither does this.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States. Hawaii’s certification of live birth proves this, as Allahpundit and I have both noted this summer. Fact Check also verified it, although the video does its best to undermine that by noting the connection to the Annenberg Foundation. By the way, Berg and the video manage to mangle this, too, by claiming Obama sat on the board of the Annenberg Foundation itself and distributed their funding. He ran the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, one of the foundation’s beneficiaries. (The St. Petersburg Times also verified the certification independently.)

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a contemporaneous corroboration of Obama’s Hawaii birth? As it happens, we do — provided by another PUMA who wanted to find ways to disqualify Obama. Lori Starfelt found this in the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser in a print copy from August 1961:

Unless people want to start claiming that the conspiracy to have Barack Obama infiltrate the political system started at the moment of his birth, that’s pretty conclusive evidence that Obama was born in the US and is a natural-born citizen.

I already know some of the rebuttals that will fly through the comments, so let me address them here:

A court is hearing this case, so it must be serious — Any fool with a lawyer and a couple of hundred dollars can file a lawsuit. That’s one of the reasons why tort reform is so badly needed. Frivolous lawsuits cost consumers billions of dollars. Conservatives used to make that argument, at least until Phillip Berg filed this lawsuit.

Why isn’t Obama answering the lawsuit? — Maybe because it’s ridiculous, and Berg has no standing to file it anyway.

Why not produce the birth certificate? — Obama has … twice now, once on his website and once to Fact Check.

Well, then, why didn’t he produce it sooner, smart guy? — Sooner than what? This came up at the end of the primaries, and the Obama campaign produced it within a couple of weeks. So far, that hasn’t done much to quell the conspiracy theories.

Why not produce the original birth certificate? — Most people, I’d wager, don’t have their own original birth certificate. If you applied to get your records, in most states you’d get what Obama has – a certification of live birth spit out from a computer system. I doubt Hawaii has the original record any longer, either. The certification proves citizenship well enough to get a passport.

Let’s stop chasing absurd conspiracy theories that make it more difficult to win the real arguments in this election. Stick to Obama’s absurd theories on national security, his radical political allies, and his disastrous economic policies that will make these past few weeks seem like a breeze. He’s the wrong man for the job, but still an American.

Update: To answer another question (reasonably asked in the comments), Barack Obama’s Indonesian stepfather could not have revoked Obama’s birthright as an American citizen, no matter what he told the school Obama attended.

Screw Loose Change has dealt with Phillip Berg before. It turns out that Berg thinks Bush and Cheney either created 9/11 or let it happen deliberately. Conspiracy theory nuts don’t usually stop at one paranoid fantasy, and this demonstrates it. It turns out he has quite a history of lawsuits and publicity stunts, and this was written at the beginning of 2007. (via Public Secrets)

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Let’s stop chasing absurd conspiracy theories that make it more difficult to win the real arguments in this election.

Here’s the thing. It requires no chasing whatsoever. It just requires letting the court system do it’s business. If you don’t want to talk about it, don’t. I don’t really either. But it’s not chasing something to be aware of it. And no, I didn’t tip this story.

Somebody has to explain the strategy to me whereby you waste time, space and energy defending your opponent. Is that somewhere in The Art of War? Somebody have a page reference for me? Do they teach it at the United States War College?

My only quibble is that I do have my original birth certificates, one from the hospital, one from the state of New Jersey. And they are nicely locked up in my fireproof safe.

But yeah, this is a silly line of attack and it’s silliness distracts from real substantive reasons to not vote for a socialist.

rbj on October 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM

i also agree. why not just have a campaign jr surrogate float the real thing out there (not the 2000s version that kos had)

problem is, asking for that opens the door to the andrew sullivan @$%@#s asking for trig palin’s birth certificate. and doing that closes the door on that “conspiracy”, and i truly believe the longer people are saying “that’s not sarah’s baby”, the more it helps out palin with normal americans.

You know, I guess McCain really does perfectly represent the Republican party as currently constituted. He’s completely unwilling to fight. He spends more time fighting against his own side than against his opponents. He’s worried about what a dishonest media will say about him. He defends his opponents more passionately than he attacks them. Yup, he is the Representative candidate. No wonder all the fighters (i.e., every other primary candidate) lost.

Yep, this is stupid. Worse, it makes McCain supporters look stupid. That in turn makes McCain look stupid. The media will point out any idiocy on our side while covering up Obama’s, so why give them an easy target?

One question, if he is a secret Muslim (and I don’t believe this, fwiw), is that worse than palling around with Calypso Louis, Jerry Wright, or Father Eminem Pfleger?

I’m not sure it actually would be. His proven associations are bad enough to disqualify him for serving as dogcatcher.

PimFortuynsGhost on October 12, 2008 at 11:30 AM

I don’t think he’s a secret muslim either, and I personally think his Christianity is suspect (i just can’t imagine him actually believing the Wright stuff… i think its the harvard-lawyer-moves-to-poor-chicago-joins-biggest-black-church-to-meet-potential-voters…. and eventually wright became the father he never had, other than those crazy church beliefs), I’m just saying that that belief of his perceived islam is pretty rampant within (admittedly) white churches. I’ve had SO MANY ‘expose emails’ from fellow Christians in my southern hometown saying “did you know this about obama???11?” and its the same lines about indonesia, sotero, etc.

i think his associations are HORRIBLE, but for some reason, they aren’t sticking, and the ‘secret muslim’ thing is.

I frankly don’t care as the media wouldn’t do the story anyway so it is a moot point. But I feel compelled to point out that the certificate of live birth that is being touted was an obvious fake. The COLB posted was completely de bunked as a photo shop forgery a la dan rather. Probably Machiavellian strategy on Obama’s part to spin his detractors but it is ODD to post an obvious fake.

The far more interesting issue presented was Obama’s having DUAL CITIZENSHIP (U.S. & Indonesia) and traveling on an Indonesian passport after the age of majority (to Pakistan)

As said above the media won’t touch it so it’s not worth getting riled up. We won’t get to the bottom of it the way we would for Sarah’s Junior High foibles

It’s funny how this is a non-issue, yet Obama and the DNC are fighting the case in court. I don’t think Ed has been following this case closely. Here are the links to the court filings for those who want to dig a little deeper.

And even though you may be a “reasonable, logical, and intelligent” person I bet that you too wanted to throw your Schlitz at the TV screen yesterday when the Domers blew that game.

What in God’s name was that kid thinking when he tried to lateral? If he had gone down immediately, the ref would stop the clock and Clausen could have downed the ball giving the Irish one shot from 7 yards out.

The October Surprise will be released on Thursday October 30th at 5pm EST. It will rock the entire media/political landscape, this election is over for Barack Obama and the Obama campaign knows what is coming. This is why they are spending like drunken sailors, it is why Obama bought up a half hour block of time on the majors, they are trying to pad whatever lead they have, it won’t work.

Once again, I repeat, October Surprise to be released on October 30th at 5pm EST, buy your tickets now, it is going to be a lot of fun.

Most acknowledge that Obama was born in Hawaii… BUT we have never before had a dual citizen President… and he may very well have citizenship at one time from Kenya, Indonesia (thought adoption by Soetero), and America.

Was the intent of the Founders with the “Natural Birth” clause to ensure that there were no divided loyalties for the President… because remember, back then there were no Dual Citizens… it was not recognized by the US.

This whole citizen of the world thing being put forth by many from the Left, and Hollyweird, will not play well in flyover country… which is why I think Barry is trying to get this dismissed, before it can get the MSM’s attention.

Let’s stop chasing absurd conspiracy theories that make it more difficult to win the real arguments in this election. Stick to Obama’s absurd theories on national security, his radical political allies, and his disastrous economic policies that will make these past few weeks seem like a breeze. He’s the wrong man for the job, but still an American.

Yeah because McCain is doing such a bang up job campaigning for the presidency we wouldn’t want anything to distract attention when he’s out there supporting Obama.

Seriously, McCain has all but lost this election by his lackluster campaigning. Let’s just resign ourselves to his loss in November and prepare for the worst. No need to make Republicans look like fools chasing these stupid theories around. They won’t lead anywhere and make rank and file Republicans look as moronic as the “Republicans” who demand we all shut up and support McCain without question or criticism.

Ed,
I tend not to be a conspiracy theorist, but this is more than just a PUMA being pissed.

There is more to the Lawsuit than just the birth records, which is why this thing hasn’t just been dismissed. It is all about discovery, and includes indonesian citizenship followed by the lack of reimigration to the US.

If the contemporaneous newspaper is correct, Barak Obama could have just had this dissappear by providing the requested documents. Instead there is a motion to dismiss with a blocking of discovery.

This is an extremely weird thing. Dismissals are usually on the basis of looking at the evidence.

While I agree this is a silly and somewhat counter-productive argument I believe the grounds for thinking he isn’t technically qualified to run are compelling.

In brief the key issue is whether or not his claim to American citizenship survived his mother’s renunication, on his behalf as a dependent minor, of his American citizenship in order to marry in Indonesia.

Indonesian “law” at the time was in a state of flux with serious conflicts going on between new arrivals, long term non citizens demanding some rights, and old line locals denying them. On two points, however, almost all were agreed: citizenship perpetuates thorugh the father (making him Kenyan – something his mother may also have done on his first birth certificate); and, that to marry a muslim under muslim law required a formal renunciation (including dependent minors) of prior citizenship – and we know his mother did get married under those laws and therefore that she had to have renounced his prior citizenship.

American law on this has also undergone significant periodic change and the question there is which applies? the law as it affected Obama and his mother then? or the law as it would have applied had these events happened after the most recent changes (initiated during the Carter era)?

Overall I see it this way: If Obama were a Republican candidate this issue would be widely considered fair game and, on balance, I think real research would be more likely to show him technically disqualified than qualified.

They will probably re-play that clip up until election day, Purple Fury. It’s like the rodney king video for liberals, as this is somehow ‘truth that this is what all the republicans think, because they are all racists.’ That woman, either an astroturfer, or a woman who is PO’ed and a little unhinged, is the gift to democrats that they’ve been waiting for.

Well, I don’t know what he meant by that exactly, and I like Ed and AP both very much, so I don’t mean to insult either, but we currently don’t have a way to verify constitutional requirements. So let the court work it out. If we the people say ignore it, then we are marginalizing a constitutional requirement by mob mentality.

I say, watch it and see where it goes. I don’t think it’s going anywhere, but I support the process. We need some way of verifying requirements anyway.

I hate to break it to my friends at HotAir, but the Certificate of Live Birth Obama is showing people- the same one that has been “verified” by FactCheck, etc… IS NOT COMPLETE. Any birth cert ordered from out of state will have FOUR pieces of paper, not just the one put out by the Messiah. 1) A photocopy of the original certificate, with the bottom 3/4 below the name obscured by a hospital authentication-proof of birth at that particular hospital. 2) A full copy of the certificate (like the one that’s being shown as “proof”). 3) Authentication by the State Clerk, attesting to the hospital record. 4) Authentication by the State Attorney General, attesting to the State Clerk’s authentication as authentic. My wife recently requested her birth certificate from Hawaii and it came with all four pieces of paper, not just the one. She was born in ’58, so Ed’s argument above stating that the state may not have the original is wrong.

This may be a side issue, it may not be. In any case, it is incumbant upon the candidate to fully prove his eligibility for office. IMHO, he has yet to do so.

They will probably re-play that clip up until election day, Purple Fury. It’s like the rodney king video for liberals, as this is somehow ‘truth that this is what all the republicans think, because they are all racists.’ That woman, either an astroturfer, or a woman who is PO’ed and a little unhinged, is the gift to democrats that they’ve been waiting for.

Can Hot Air consider profiling candidates who are worth supporting and worth keeping our eyes on?

I’m disappointed with McCain’s crappy campaign because I was hoping that Ohio’s Rob Portman would wind up with a decent appointment in McCain’s cabinet. Maybe he’ll run for Senate. He’s just someone who ought to be involved in governing.

Someone from Michigan mentioned Thad McCotter and I like that representative from Virginia Eric Kantor.

Open thread, Ed? Not necessarily presidential candidates, but national leaders. I read Obama will pick Gov. Deval as his AG–oy, if McCain had bothered to show up, we might have been looking at Rudy.

What about what Berg said about his having to take on citizenship in Indonesia in order to go to school there? They don’t allow for duel citizenship. According to Berg, having an American BC wouldn’t matter in that case. Anyone?

And a very good morning, you moronic troll. Why aren’t you camped out to get tickets for High School Musical 3 like all your friends?

I’m still ignoring your demand that McCain is off limits for discussion and criticism because I’m not an unthinking drone. McCain’s all but lost this campaign by his lackluster campaigning so do yourself a favor and simply SRFU for the next three weeks. Your constant bleating will just make you look all the more pathetic after November 4th.

There is more to the Lawsuit than just the birth records, which is why this thing hasn’t just been dismissed. It is all about discovery, and includes indonesian citizenship followed by the lack of reimigration to the US. Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 11:42 AM

Ed, thanks for the effort to be accurate. At least you are trying to sift through the bunk.

However, the last half of the video is not addressed by you. Perhaps in your reubttals you simply did not think it had merit being so over the top as to be perposterous.

However, my apologies for posing the outlandish, but if indeed he did attend school in Indonesia, and was either ‘adopted’ or ‘affirmed’ by his step-father for admission, is there any merit to the premise that he would have been an Indonesian national at that time requiring immigration upon return?

First of all, this is just an announcement of a birth to two people who live in Hawaii. It doesn’t say where he was born. Berg claims that the Obamas were visiting Kenya at the time of Barack’s birth. You can call any newspaper in any town and announce a birth. I don’t want to go with this line of attack if it isn’t true but all Obama has to do to squelch this is produce a VAULT copy of his HAWAIIAN birth certificate. Why won’t he?

There is one issue with the Obama as a citizen and that settles it. When he moved to Indonesia, there was no dual citizenship at the time and only Indonesian citizens were allowed to be enrolled in the schools. Now unless, his mother and her new husband, Mr. Soetero, figured out a way to circumvent the law, this issue could still be valid.

Might as well start looking to how best rebuild the GOP. McCain’s campaign has pretty much destroyed the party by alienating social conservatives/evangelicals and still not attracting enough “moderates” to lead in the polls against an utterly unqualified opponent. Pretty damned pathetic and I’m angry at the GOP leaders that let this trainwreck occur.

The GOP needs a plan to regroup and represent the traditional values of smaller government, lower taxes, and fiscal responsibility. A good starting point would be to find the next generation of GOP leaders and put individuals like McCain out to pasture. I still think Bobby Jindal is a frontrunner to campaign against Obama in 2012.

How many times have we heard the saying in politics, that its not the crime, its the cover up?

They are spending WAY more time, and money, to get this dismissed than they would by just allowing discovery and putting this thing to rest once and for all.

Now, just as a thought excercise, what happens if AFTER Barry wins the election, he is found to not be qualified to be President? If he is not sworn in yet, the laws of succession would not count. Would it devolve back to the House of Reps, where they can ONLY choose between the 3 top vote getters in the Electoral College?

Talk about a HUGE Constitutional Crises, during a time of War and Economic crises…. wow…

Shouldn’t the real emphasis be demands that Obama explain how his “unconventional” upbrining has influenced his world view. The answer to that question would be far more enlightening than the “Is Obama an American” distractor.

Is it some kind of lawyer gene that compels them to file a summary judgement motion instead of just providing a certified copy of Obama’s Hawaii birth certificate? It does not help Obama’s cause to have the perception of delaying the hearing because he has no Hawaii certificate.

What does one do when they are pulled over by a cop and discover that they left their wallet home? They go to the court later and produce their damn driver’s license!!!!!

What compounds this even further, is the extra low quality, fuzzy copy posted on fightthesmears.com.

Unless people want to start claiming that the conspiracy to have Barack Obama infiltrate the political system started at the moment of his birth, that’s pretty conclusive evidence that Obama was born in the US and is a natural-born citizen.

Somebody has to explain the strategy to me whereby you waste time, space and energy defending your opponent. Is that somewhere in The Art of War? Somebody have a page reference for me? Do they teach it at the United States War College?

No wonder we are on a losing streak. We are a bunch of losers.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM

You don’t understand, for some Republicans it’s OK to lose, as long has your constituents or fellow party members don’t embarass you.

It much more credible to say you “admire Obama’s accomplishments” (though of course, he has none), or praise his “obvious intelligence” (which isn’t obvious at all), or say you’re sure he’s a nice person (without ever having met him), or that “I don’t believe he agrees with Ayers ideology” (when we don’t know what he believes in), than to raise any potentially “embarassing” questions.

Ed, I’ve seldom taken this story very seriously. But I keep running across it and as time goes on it is becoming more and more worthy of attention. Your central piece of evidence here is less than convincing. Nowhere in what you have shown us from the Honolulu Advertiser does it say that these were births in Honolulu. It could just be a list of children born to local residents. And, if it is a list of births at local hospitals, it would not require a devilishly large conspiracy to falsify it. Enough benefits could have been expected from Hawaiian birth to have motivated a lie.
Ed, you have not much of a new argument and you mainly rely on negative remarks about those who disagree with you.

As Berg notes, even if Obama were born in Honolulu, there is some question about his “natural-born” status having been lost due to his Indonesian citizenship. I don’t hear anyone discussing that aspect. Just as all of the other reasons for going into Iraq went down the memory hole when we didn’t find large crates with “WMD” stenciled upon them, the “de-bunking” of the birth certificate aspect has nothing to do with the Indonesia element.

Here’s my nightmare scenario.

Suppose we get to Election Day, and over 270 Electors pledged to Obama/Biden are elected. Then the judge orders Obama to turn over the records about Indonesia, and there’s just enough “there” there that it looks like he could be declared ineligible. Obama officially drops out of the race, allowing the DNC to get together and direct those Electors to cast their December votes for the runner-up in the Dem nominating process.

There are enough known and documented “truths,” about Obama that we don’t have to dig things up to prove he is not qualified to be a United States President. The sad point is however, that there are too many Americans who just don’t care about the facts regarding Obama and or the main stream media has failed to bring those facts to full light.

Ed,
Lest this be glossed over, this isn’t just some hack PUMA who happens to be an attourney. He is a life long Democrat who has a 30 year career he will be flushing down the toilet if this is complete crap. He has served as an assistant District Attourney, is qualified to argue in front of the Supreme Court, and even run for Governor a few times.

Not some unknown chump with little at stake.

Again, mighty wierd that in the face of this man’s lawsuit, Obama hired a team of lawers and filed a motion to dismiss blocking discovery.

The argument for blocking is that discovery would cause undue embarassment and expense for Obama.

Somebody has to explain the strategy to me whereby you waste time, space and energy defending your opponent. Is that somewhere in The Art of War? Somebody have a page reference for me? Do they teach it at the United States War College?

No wonder we are on a losing streak. We are a bunch of losers.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM

Part of me wants to say it’s their “fairness” and honest desire to hold to “the truth.”

But mostly it’s just hatred of McCain.

AP, MM, and now Ed, so hate McCain for the past they don’t want him to win. Yet they oppose Hussein’s policies. Yet McCain can’t win. And so on, back and forth. So they creating dissent and demoralization in the McCain camp by articles like this, while posting some anti-Hussein articles to keep people against his positions. (Plus, it keeps McCain supporters here, to be exposed to their propaganda).

The hope is to maintain the fight for their policies during the “President Obama” administration. After all, with the Left in so much control, the Right will be looking for leaders and champions and sources of information… like Hotair.com! Some accused Limbaugh of secretly wanting Clinton to win in 1992 to give him fodder for his show. I doubt he did then, but perhaps the people here are now.

Of course, after “hate speech” codes for AP to change the handle, “fairness doctrines” are applied to the Internet, and “truth squads” crush dissent, they might not have too much to say.

The headline of this post should be changed. Berg isn’t claiming that Obama is not an American. He asserts that Obama may not be a natural born citizen which is a requirement to hold the office of President. So, come on Ed, you can’t expect us to take you seriously if you don’t care to follow the actual facts of the story.

I think this story is a likely dead-ender too. But to just dismiss it out of hand is nuts – especially when your proof is a grainy scan out of an ancient newspaper (the last time I saw something like that , it was national guard documents).

Even if the citizenship angle falters, it is very interesting that Obama is unwilling to release his college and law school records. If he has nothing to hide, then why not release everything? If there is relevant information in any of those records, it’s important that we learn about it before election day. And unless you have some better ideas, it seems this democrat attorney is as close to anyone to gaining access.

Sorry, still not as scary as the fact we are about to elect Obama to the presidency. Not as scary as the fact that McCain can’t even get enough votes to make it anything but a really close race (what’s wrong with people?). Still not as scary as the fact that so many “Republicans” refuse to recognize that McCain’s campaigning his hurting/not helping because it doesn’t go for the jugular.

If McCain doesn’t ramp up the real criticism (pandering more effusively than Billy Jeff, lying more effectively than BOTH Clintons put together, pretending to be more fiscally conservative than McCain, ad nauseam) of this petit crypto-Marxist weasel ~STAT~ then it’ll soon be time to invest in the IMPEACH OBAMA paraphernalia for a pre-emptive lark.

Why not produce the birth certificate? — Obama has … twice now, once on his website and once to Fact Check.

It says that he was born. It doesn’t say where he was born. His relatives have stated that he was born in Kenya and flown back shortly afterwords because the airline didn’t want to fly a pregnant woman who was close to labor.

Berg pointed out that Hawaii will issue this certificate that Obama has produced regardless of where the baby was born and Berg cited the law on his web site.

Last week, we got tons of e-mail purporting to claim that Berg had won in court and Obama had three days to produce proof of citizenship.

That’s right. Let’s berate everyone who isn’t an attorney or has never been sued civilly for interpreting the document as a valid court order.

I already know some of the rebuttals that will fly through the comments, so let me address them here:

You forgot one: Anyone can call up and request a birth announcement in the paper. Evidentiary wise, it is meaningless.

Most people, I’d wager, don’t have their own original birth certificate.

You would lose that bet. And ordering a copy of the original birth certificate is as easy as ordering a computer generated certificate.

Let’s stop chasing absurd conspiracy theories that make it more difficult to win the real arguments in this election.

Let’s stop making absurd excuses for obama and talking down to your readers. I have no idea where he was born and no one has yet to convince me with solid and admissible evidence either way. Maybe, people would not be so eager to grasp at weak arguments if they weren’t so demoralized by the constant barrage of negative articles posted by HotAir about McCain, Palin, and republican voters every effin day. Positive articles and arguments are rarely and I can only summarize deliberately not linked to by HotAir. And please don’t point to one link and say I am wrong. The ratio of bad to good is absurd.

I agree. My point is this: Is this a conservative blog, a liberal blog or an independent blog? If this is a conservative blog the best way to deal with this story and those like it, are to ignore them. This is Dems fighting Dems, why step in the middle of that and defend your opponent? What kind of strategy is that? I’ll tell you, it’s a loser’s strategy. Which is what we risk becoming, a party of losers who spend more time attacking each other than our opponents.

What I hope this isn’t is an attempt to have it both ways. That is, distributing the story while seemingly defending Obama to give you politically correct cover (I call this the Bill O’Reilly strategy). That’s cowardly and I don’t think it’s the case here. So, I have to go with just pure bad judgment.

Just because 40 people sent you something doesn’t mean you have to waste time reacting. I’m out on the web all day and have seen very little about this. It’s there, but it’s not getting much attention. Or wasn’t, anyway. I’d spend your time writing about something else. Like how, after 5 years of hate against Bush, it makes the left look pretty darned hypocritical complaining about a few irritated people at a McCain rally. The left actually held anti-Bush rallies. They weren’t complaining about hate messages then.

Suppose we get to Election Day, and over 270 Electors pledged to Obama/Biden are elected. Then the judge orders Obama to turn over the records about Indonesia, and there’s just enough “there” there that it looks like he could be declared ineligible. Obama officially drops out of the race, allowing the DNC to get together and direct those Electors to cast their December votes for the runner-up in the Dem nominating process.

President Hillary Rodham Clinton.

The Monster on October 12, 2008 at 12:05 PM

It would depend on State laws as to how this would play out. Most state laws say that Electors HAVE to vote for the one the voters selected… but there are some that leave it “open”. Voters are actualy voting on a “slate” of Electors… so legaly this would end up a real mess. You’d have to go state by state to figure out if enough of Barry’s 270+ are free to change up…

If nobody gets 270, then it devolves to the House of Reps, where they can ONLY vote on one of the top three vote getters, and each STATE only gets ONE vote. As there are many more Red States, than Blue, I think McCain would win that vote because of the way its structured.

Ed suggests the records office in Hawaii has probably thrown theirs away….is that what records offices in the US usually do? Throw out their records regularly? Strange……

BL@KBIRD on October 12, 2008 at 12:05 PM

No they don’t throw anything away. In NJ it is kept in The Bureau of Vital Statistics. I got a copy of my original birth cert – the long form when I was almost 50 and after the building survived a fire and a move across town.

The issue (A very remote possibility) is not whether Obama was a natural-born citizen, it’s whether he still IS a citizen, based on the possibility of being adopted in Indonesia and being issued citizenship there, a country that does not recognize dual citizenship. If true (and there is considerable doubt), resolving that would have required Obama to renounce the citizenship at 18, which he didn’t do.

What’s worse? Conspiracy theory nuts? Or so called “conservative pundits” insulting McCain/Palin and voters who won’t obey their intellectual superiors? Everyday HotAir posts links to article by the later. In fact, has any negative article gone unlinked by HotAir? I doubt it.

now an update too. this is hand-to-hand combat here. it’s probably not credible, but why go out of your way to kill the discussion? like the other commenter said, don’t intervene in a democrat-on-democrat scuffle.

the obama team is out there spewing half-truths and outright lies, and they are convincing people with it.

i guess it’s your job to engage in conservative dialogue … but occasionally taking a break to hand some charity to the obama campaign. i’m sure they’re thankful for your help.

The only reason I know this is my husband is a Canadian citizen who is a US permanent resident and is applying for US citizenship and we’ve read through all the paperwork.

Canada is a country that recognizes dual citizenship.

/my 2 cents

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 12:13 PM

Uh, may want to research that… you can actualy vote in multiple countries elections now days and not lose your US citizenship. They have even decided that giving Oath to another country, that HAS a distinct part of that oath giving away your citizenship, is not enough to get rid of your citizenship, you now have to go to the US Gov and specificly tell them you give it up.

Sad, but thats the law now…. question will be if Barry is covered by the old law, or the new.

Actually. Here is what the 12th ammendament says, In this event, the House of Representatives is limited to choosing from among the three candidates who received the most electoral votes. Each state delegation has a single vote. To be elected, a candidate must receive an absolute majority of state votes (currently 26) in order for that candidate to become the President-elect. Additionally, delegations from at least two-thirds of all the states must be present for voting to take place. The House continues balloting until it elects a President.
Er tu, McCain is elected.

THOSE WHO TRY TO APPEAR MODERATE ON THIS ISSUE BY CAVING IN TOO SOON ARE NOT INTELLECTUALLY HONEST.

THAT MEANS YOU. AND ALLAHP.

ALL THE BEST.

reliapundit on October 12, 2008 at 11:59 AM

While reliapundit may indeed be right in this argument OR Ed in attempting to defuse it, the question that should be asked at this time is IS THIS ISSUE A WASTE OF TIME AT THIS MOMENT IN THE ELECTION PROCESS?

This election is far from over folks! Get back to the issues that can enable and tighten the polls, (which ARE SKEWED). Make sure that everyone gets to the REAL polls on Nov.4th. (Nov. 3rd for you democrats)

Reagan was down by double digits with two weeks left in 1980. GW was also down by the same amount in 2000. There’s still a fight to be fought and I’m not quitting!

For those who are already looking to the future and have accepted defeat—PLEASE STEP TO THE REAR OF THE DEBATE, and wait your turn.

Just because 40 people sent you something doesn’t mean you have to waste time reacting. — a few irritated people at a McCain rally. The left actually held anti-Bush rallies. They weren’t complaining about hate messages then.Connie on October 12, 2008 at 12:15 PM

The purpose of this site is not to get the republican elected, it’s to get people to click on the links, and drive traffic, and build up a large base of participants.

And this is absolutely a few people. You could gather all the fringe on the right into an office building. And the fringe on the left, well, they can gather at an outdoor arena to see their messiah give a speech in front of styrofoam greek temple. Many times over.

This is the mentality I was referring to in another thread. In this case there is no difference between the Krazy Kos Klowns and those on the right who subscribe to theories that have no basis in fact, but rather are the result of the imaginations of the delusional mind.

I am dismayed by how fashionable it has come here at HA to tinge criticism of our bloggers with more and more vitriol. May I suggest another perspective?

Look at this site as a pioneer in the blogosphere for its systematic recording of History as it is unfolding. All those links in the posts are tying together information and opinion that are shaping our country in real time.

Look at the careful archiving that’s done here. Look at Dr. Spencer’s long-running and underappreciated contributions. Did you catch Allahpundit’s reference that this might be a gossip blog come January? Is that what you want? Or do you want to participate in something serious where we can see and discuss the world as it is, good bad and ugly, from a conservative but non-dogmatic point of view?