Objectify?

So, my question is, what do we mean by "objectifying" a woman? I mean, I know what the definition is, to see someone as a mere object, so I'm asking, how does a woman see that word? I'm asking because of Page_c's folio where she mentions a "fear of being objectified". And also perhaps because of the current furore over men in power thinking they can abuse women at will. I'm sure (or hope) I'm in the majority of men who see women as wonderful and beautiful people, who we rely on to continue the human race, something us men could never hope to do alone. I find it hard to understand men who see women as playthings. I get angry when I read about women being paid less than men for the same job.

And yet I love looking at women, especially when naked as on this site. I also love to find out about women who have done amazing things - my favourite is probably Rosalind Franklin who was the key in enabling Watson and Crick to decipher the structure of DNA.

Re: Objectify?

Don't insult yourself mori. You know exactly what's up You've indicated this in your comments about loving the ways women do amazing things, distaste at men who abuse power & you have also indicated that you know what objectification means.

I think you're aiming far too low as a human & as a man - if you are confused, unpack it, research it, if your confusion is about women ASK the women in your life about whatever it is.

As far as I'm concerned I see objectification as a sort of ego driven entitlement - it's seeing women as sub human.

If you're contributing here chances are you want to be seen, but you also want to be heard & I think it's the type of comments/opinions that remove that particular ownership & power that would qualify as objectification.

Re: Objectify?

_hyperballad_ wrote:

Don't insult yourself mori. You know exactly what's up You've indicated this in your comments about loving the ways women do amazing things, distaste at men who abuse power & you have also indicated that you know what objectification means.

I think you're aiming far too low as a human & as a man - if you are confused, unpack it, research it, if your confusion is about women ASK the women in your life about whatever it is.

As far as I'm concerned I see objectification as a sort of ego driven entitlement - it's seeing women as sub human.

If you're contributing here chances are you want to be seen, but you also want to be heard & I think it's the type of comments/opinions that remove that particular ownership & power that would qualify as objectification.

Hi Hyperballad, thanks for your reply. I think what I'm really thinking about is the different views of men and women that have emerged from the recent controversy over the actions of men in positions of power, some of which seem to be contradictory. I need to think about it some more before I can make a rational argument.

I agree with your description of objectification, but isn't it more complicated than that? There's was a long tradition which I attribute to the influence of institutionalised Christianity that women are somehow above the mundane emotions such as sex, which leads to the idea that women who are sexual were therefore unnatural. Setting women on a pedestal of perfection while denigrating those who acted like women seems to me the ultimate objectification. Isn't that what the latest open letter from various women including Catherine Deneuve is pointing to? That women are indeed sexual, and should refuse to put up with inappropriate actions by men without seeing themselves as victims? I'm probably talking rubbish. I do know that for most men finding how to relate to women is a bit like crossing a mine field.

Re: Objectify?

Are you specifically referencing the #metoo #timesup movement?

And yes, when you reference women's supposed role when it comes to religion it is legitimately fucked. I don't know if I'd called it objectification though. That's a very particular school of thought designed to reinforce patriarchy & keep women firmly in their 'place'. I don't think of objectification as a descriptor for how many religions aim to hold women down & simultaneously shame any shred of perceived femininity out of men.

Catherine Deneuve is presenting a tired, 2 dimensional argument & if you google her name she's already apologised for being such a tone deaf arse to women that have experienced rape & sexual assault. As someone who has made a living on her attractiveness to men & seems content to uphold the status quo I don't find her opinions hold much water for me.

It's actually really easy to not assault & harass women, the men I choose to spend time with have it down pat. I think it's high time men feel a bit nervous about the way they treat women, that they examine their attitudes & actions. The nonsense surrounding mens anxiety with not 'accidentally assaulting a woman' is BS - if you (and I mean you as a general term, not you specifically) don't know if you're harassing someone or not then you've got bigger issues to deal with & you should probs address them before humaning out in the world.

I'm not sure how to say this without sounding harsh but I think men saying they don't know how to relate to women is an excuse to reinforce their current behaviours or to not try. Women are raised to try, we need to be raising little boys the same way. Learn how to read people & situations, be in touch with your feelings & we defs need to be teaching emotional intelligence. Aside from anything I'm tired of the gender divide, men & women aren't *that* different, these sorts of discussions are also kind of basic or theoretical because of the assumed gender binaries... There are so many people who exist outside of 'man & woman' identities...

Re: Objectify?

Mori If you desire someone interact with them respectfully. That’s all the term objectification is trying to say, (though not very well as some objects have great sentimental value and the phrase is also too puritanical and uncomfortably sex negative.) Even if our fantasies are kinky we still want to act towards other people unselfishly with friendship. I suppose for the determined, sex can be a sales pitch, but it isn’t a hunting game, both sides always need to desire each other. So in summary I don’t think the word is objectify, it’s Respect.