Gained some new found admiration for Colt watching him week 9 against the Texans. He may not be a capable starting QB but there aren't many guys that could elude every drop back and take hits in the pocket like he did on Sunday.

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yeah, they wanted to use this year to find out if he was capable of being a starting QB, but with how bad the O-Line, WRs, and the rest of the offense around him has been combined with the predictable, stoneage playcalling, they haven't given him much of a chance so we don't really know if he can play or not. They won't give him the benefit of the doubt though this offseason b/c of his lack of physical tools combined with his poor performance this year no matter how fair of a chance he was given. The team has to move it can't sit on its hands regarding our QB situation.

If we sell the farm to get Luck, do you think he plays significantly better considering we'd still have the same lack of talent around him? (I'm assuming we'd have to give up almost all of our picks this year to move up to #1)

Or do you think we'd be better served by drafting whatever QB falls to our first pick and then drafting OL/WR/RB?

If we sell the farm to get Luck, do you think he plays significantly better considering we'd still have the same lack of talent around him? (I'm assuming we'd have to give up almost all of our picks this year to move up to #1)

Or do you think we'd be better served by drafting whatever QB falls to our first pick and then drafting OL/WR/RB?

We won't be getting Luck, he would cost a king's ransom to obtain and you would have to have another top 5 pick to even have a shot.
With the colleges throwing the ball as much as they do today, likely, I hope, a QB will be available when we exercise our 1st round pick.
It is far easier to rebuild a team once your franchise QB is in place than to try and do it the other way around.

If we got Luck (long longshot) then he might not play that much better but the fact is - like Canadian said - once you have your franchise QB in place a good chunk of the battle is done in rebuilding a team and the rest is a lot easier.

Colt McCoy has 470 QB dropbacks this year (i.e. non-handoffs), third-most in the league behind Drew Brees and Matthew Stafford. Despite this, he’s only been responsible for 10 total turnovers (fumble + INTs); only Tim Tebow and Aaron Rodgers have taken better care of the ball on a per-dropback basis.

...course it won't stop us from taking a QB with the first pick.

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he doesn't throw a lot of picks. he doesn't throw a lot of touchdowns or for a high ypa either. I think one reason for this is that he doesn't fire the ball into tight spaces which is where top QBs make their money. If he tried to do this more often he would have more picks b/c he doesn't have a great arm. I like Colt, he's a solid QB, but his size and strength are going to forever limit his potential - especially on the Browns where talent is always hard to come by.

Do you believe Colt or Shurmur is at fault. Either we're running this tight offense because of a lack of arm strength on Colt to move the ball thus limiting what we do or it's on Shurmur for calling so many tight plays and not some more goes or 20+ yard plays.

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That stat they put up during the Steelers game, that something like 75% of all our throws are 10yd or less, was mind boggling. I'd like to say it's because of Colt's arm but Bradford had a pretty low ypa last season as well. Its hard to believe Shurmur spent 9 seasons learning with Any Reid and McNabb.

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I suspect they may be protecting the mental aspect for McCoy. If they believe he will breakout next year, why expose him to total embarrassment this season. Let him learn gradually.

The other answer is worse, they already have reached the conclusion that McCoy just doesn't have it and are running a conservative offense because that is all he is capable of.

They may also feel that their defense is good enough to keep a game close and if they open up the offense, all you are going to see is a lot more interceptions and turnovers and what purpose would that serve.

Right now I don't want anymore wins, higher draft picks should be our goal.
If McCoy isn't the answer then RG111 or Barkley must be a Brown next year and the higher we draft, the more likely this is to happen.
I don't want to think about failure to secure either.

I think I like the 2013 QB prospects more than 2012 guys. I'd take Brock Osweiler, Tyler Wilson or Logan Thomas over Barkley, RG3 or Tannehill. Could be a tough evaluation for the scouting group this year on the QBs.

Barkley's very similar to Andy Dalton but Dalton was a 2nd round pick. RG3 could be gold or he could just as easily stay as an unrefined athlete. Tannehill has the skillset physically but he's also terribly robotic. Jones has the arm but no legs. Strengths/weaknesses goes for any class but I think I still prefer next years. :(

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I think I like the 2013 QB prospects more than 2012 guys. I'd take Brock Osweiler, Tyler Wilson or Logan Thomas over Barkley, RG3 or Tannehill. Could be a tough evaluation for the scouting group this year on the QBs.

Barkley's very similar to Andy Dalton but Dalton was a 2nd round pick. RG3 could be gold or he could just as easily stay as an unrefined athlete. Tannehill has the skillset physically but he's also terribly robotic. Jones has the arm but no legs. Strengths/weaknesses goes for any class but I think I still prefer next years. :(

Of course, everyone always does. The year after "this year" is always better, until every one of those guys you've listed gets broken down the way this years class has and it's not as good as anyone thought early on. It usually ends up evening up once that class ends up declaring.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

Yeah, I know what you mean but I liked most of the 2011 guys more than this year's also. I recognize how much a crap shoot it is (really didn't like Dalton too much last year) but I'm still not enthused with any of these guys right now after Luck.

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I think I like the 2013 QB prospects more than 2012 guys. I'd take Brock Osweiler, Tyler Wilson or Logan Thomas over Barkley, RG3 or Tannehill. Could be a tough evaluation for the scouting group this year on the QBs.

Barkley's very similar to Andy Dalton but Dalton was a 2nd round pick. RG3 could be gold or he could just as easily stay as an unrefined athlete. Tannehill has the skillset physically but he's also terribly robotic. Jones has the arm but no legs. Strengths/weaknesses goes for any class but I think I still prefer next years. :(

I couldn't disagree more. This year's crop is one of the finest I've seen in many years. 3 solid franchise types who in many draft years, would have all been the #1 overall pick, and at least 3 stragglers with some real upside and possible 1st round talent.
Next years crop looks like crap to me, I won't be at all shocked if none of them are 1st rounders.
It is this draft or we could be waiting for years to find a real franchise type.

This time next year people are gonna look back on the 2012 QB class and be left wanting for more from the 2013 guys. They have Barkley (if he doesn't declare this year) and Tyler Wilson (Bobby Petrino's offense inflates numbers greatly), and a bunch of guys on the level with Nick Foles and Ryan Tannehill as prospects probably. Granted we could have someone come out of nowhere like Cam Newton did, but right now it's not looking like we're gonna get better than Luck/Griffin/Jones/Tannehill/Foles and maybe Barkley that we're getting this year. Luck alone makes this year's QB class better than what we've had in recent history. If Barkley declares this year then it will be (IMO) the best QB class since the famed 2004 class of Eli/Rivers/Roethlisberger.

The thing with Brees is that every single short and/or weak armed QB gets compared to him and people will realize that he is one of the lone exceptions to the rule of what physical traits a QB almost absolutely MUST have to succeed in the NFL. Barkley is a little bigger than Brees and has a better arm coming out of USC and a quicker release (which is saying something). The thing that seperates Brees from almost every other QB in the league is his ability to read and pick apart weaknesses in defenses and place the ball perfectly. Barkley's athleticism isn't quite as good as Brees' and his ball placement won't be anything like Brees' unless he develops the same kind of work ethic to perfect the parts of his game that he has the power to correct. That said, he is a little bit like Brees.

Barkley actually looks more like a smaller Matt Schaub or a less athletic Mark Sanchez with a little better of an arm and way more experience. As negative comparisons he unfortunately has a little bit of Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen in him, though I'm sure he will be a lot better than either of those two and probably already is.

Anyways, that is my rambling rant on Barkley. I think he has a pretty high ceiling for success. He'll at the very least be Sanchez or Schaub. His upside is limited though b/c of his athleticism, size, and strength. He could be a top 10 QB in the game though still, and I'll take that.

The thing with Brees is that every single short and/or weak armed QB gets compared to him and people will realize that he is one of the lone exceptions to the rule of what physical traits a QB almost absolutely MUST have to succeed in the NFL. Barkley is a little bigger than Brees and has a better arm coming out of USC and a quicker release (which is saying something). The thing that seperates Brees from almost every other QB in the league is his ability to read and pick apart weaknesses in defenses and place the ball perfectly. Barkley's athleticism isn't quite as good as Brees' and his ball placement won't be anything like Brees' unless he develops the same kind of work ethic to perfect the parts of his game that he has the power to correct. That said, he is a little bit like Brees.

Barkley actually looks more like a smaller Matt Schaub or a less athletic Mark Sanchez with a little better of an arm and way more experience. As negative comparisons he unfortunately has a little bit of Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen in him, though I'm sure he will be a lot better than either of those two and probably already is.

Anyways, that is my rambling rant on Barkley. I think he has a pretty high ceiling for success. He'll at the very least be Sanchez or Schaub. His upside is limited though b/c of his athleticism, size, and strength. He could be a top 10 QB in the game though still, and I'll take that.

Well put and now that he has returned to school, I'd add maturity as an issue. Just how much is this guy going to put into being the best? Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers live and breath football and I just don't get that feeling about Barkley after his decision to return for his senior year.

Well put and now that he has returned to school, I'd add maturity as an issue. Just how much is this guy going to put into being the best? Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers live and breath football and I just don't get that feeling about Barkley after his decision to return for his senior year.

Wow... 3 of the 4 guys you mentioned returned for their senior year. Would you say Sanchez is mature because he declared after his junior year?

Besides that, I can guarantee you Matt Barkley is not immature and he wants to be the best. That's the reason why he came back his senior year to be the #1 team in college football. He obviously didn't stay at USC because of the money and he didn't do it because it's Southern California blah blah blah. He did it because he wanted to win the national championship.

yeah, you could use both sides of the coin on that one. Usually it seems the more immature players leave early and are thinking about money instead of about their legacy or their college degree. Cannot blame Barkley at all for the decision he made, it was very logical if you look at these factors:

-He can win a Heisman next year
-He can win a National and Pac 12 Title next year
-He can go down as an all-time great college QB
-He finishes his degree
-He can be the #1 pick in the 2013 draft (had no shot with Luck being there this year)
-NFL QBs who enter the draft early have a FAR worse success rate than ones who stay for four years.
-He probably won't get drafted by the Browns if he stays

yeah, you could use both sides of the coin on that one. Usually it seems the more immature players leave early and are thinking about money instead of about their legacy or their college degree. Cannot blame Barkley at all for the decision he made, it was very logical if you look at these factors:

-He can win a Heisman next year
-He can win a National and Pac 12 Title next year
-He can go down as an all-time great college QB
-He finishes his degree
-He can be the #1 pick in the 2013 draft (had no shot with Luck being there this year)
-NFL QBs who enter the draft early have a FAR worse success rate than ones who stay for four years.
-He probably won't get drafted by the Browns if he stays

Well put and now that he has returned to school, I'd add maturity as an issue. Just how much is this guy going to put into being the best? Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers live and breath football and I just don't get that feeling about Barkley after his decision to return for his senior year.

was this a serious post? 75% of that list returned to school. do you have any idea of what you're talking about?

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yeah, you could use both sides of the coin on that one. Usually it seems the more immature players leave early and are thinking about money instead of about their legacy or their college degree. Cannot blame Barkley at all for the decision he made, it was very logical if you look at these factors:

-He can win a Heisman next year
-He can win a National and Pac 12 Title next year
-He can go down as an all-time great college QB
-He finishes his degree
-He can be the #1 pick in the 2013 draft (had no shot with Luck being there this year)
-NFL QBs who enter the draft early have a FAR worse success rate than ones who stay for four years.
-He probably won't get drafted by the Browns if he stays

You left out a few:

-He can suffer a very serious injury and never play in the NFL.
-He loses a year of pro training by staying in college.
-If I'm training to be a CEO of a company and General Motors offers me the job, do I turn it down to stay in school so I can win some award and further my education.
-He has trained his whole life to be a professional football player, now he is telling the pros to wait so he can possibly win a Heisman, or win the Pac 12, or win the National Championship and you think pro GM's aren't going to question his maturity and his commitment to football.
-If the junior who declares has real talent, they go on to succeed at a high level, ask Stafford or Newton.
-For me, he is a perfect example a la Leinart, a kid from a well off family, who wants to stay in college because it is a lot of fun( I know I loved it). He's no Luck, who graduated as a sophomore and stayed for his junior year but has enough commitment to football to come out as a junior.

I'll be shocked if he makes it into the top 5 next year. Look at the QB's who returned to school, turning down solid chances to be high picks i the draft.

1) Leinart - turned out partying was far more important that putting a 100% into learning your profession
2) Locker - dropped considerably in the draft
3) Bradford - got injured but was lucky enough to go #1, now they are questioning his ability to stay healthy, questioning his commitment to pro football and wondering if he is committed enough to be a great QB.

I'll tell you this, the better NFL GM's will pass on Barkley next year,, sure, he may go #1 because there are plenty of bad GM's in the business but I really question whether this guy will be a true franchise QB before all is said and done.