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First in LaGG3 on convoy. With 2 other buddies, all three went to the ground during first pass (there was only 1 flak remaining). Then I went alone to finish the job (only 1 flak and 1 truck remaining). Aimed straight to the flak and I had been sniped right in the cockpit and then it took my wing off before I can even fire! Luckily I crashed into it. Had to use a third LaGG to finish the last truck.

After that and a friendly yak that heavily damaged my plane as I was heading towards their tanks ( 2 minutes long dogfight with him asking him to stop over the chat... ) I took off with an Il2 and went to the tanks. Could launch bombs and straff, but I took a lot of hits and had to crash land near by after 4 passes (nothing wrong here) But my buddy in a yak who was escorting me was sniped right in the head as he was not even trying to straff!

Also, I shot 3 passes of 23mm at a Panzer3 with 23mm AP and nothing happened... A friend of mine tried also, after 6 passes the panzer was still intact. I don't know if it's historically accurate...

So here are my observations :

Flak too heavy on convoy/column with the virtual pilot life system on, I'll never risk my pilot's life in ground attacks, right now it's suicide

1 ton+ bombs shouldn't be allowed as only a few of them will rip an objective off the map (or being a very hard item to obtain once the system in available)

We need a heads up message poping 30, 15 and 5 minutes before end of mission

A rule like "if there are not more than 10 people active and less than 3 active in 1 side, then the mission results are not taken into account and the same mission is set again" to avoid lone wolfes to win the war.

Perhaps some industrial objectives for strategic bombing could bring more people...

And of course locking the planes if you don't have the right streak, right now we have F4s that clean the sky and 87 and 111 with 1 ton+ bombs that clean the ground.

This is just my opinion after a few missions on this server and of course I know it's a lot of work to implement those ideas and at the end it's your server, so you do as you want/can.

Anyway thanks to set this server up, I still believe there is a big potential in this!

Tanks are very tough. You need to approach from the correct side to get the best penetration possibility. I find that attacking flat from the side and with as little angle as possible is the best. From the rear would be theoreticly even better as the rear armor is generally not as thick, but I find that the target is than smaller and much harder to hit.

23mm AP has not much penetration so it is unlikely to destroy tanks reliably - it can be done, but you need to put in a lot of bullets and in a precise manner - usually the time you are aimed is simply not enough to do it very effectivly (you need many passes)

37mm AP however is very effective if aimed correctly.

I also thought that it was too hard when I started using Il2 with 37mm. I barely could take out 1 tank with the complete ammo load.

However I tried more and more and found that a short burst of a few shots is usually enough if hit really well and in convergance. Now I can take out 7 tanks with one load. I set convergance to 350m, make a very steady and stable approach to the tank from the side - aim an shoot at enough of a distance to get the convergance on the tank and to safely climb away - not touching the tank / trees / ground...

The aim should not be at a steep angle - that will not couse enough damage as teh armor is than angeled and thus thicker relative to the bullet trajectory.

So what I like to do is to come from some altitude, dive slowly to keep the speed and stability - get my horisontal aim correct with as little or no pedal if possible and adjust the vertical aim so that I shoot as flat as possible.

Few shots are enough than - also if it dosent exlpode immidiatly, but starts smoking - you dont need to take it out - it will blow up after some time. Dont waste ammo on it anymore.

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Thanks guys for your opinion, it is important for us to improve server.

The level of AA in tanks/supply convoy is random and set as percentage where 30% - LOW, 50% - NORMAL and only 20% - ACE. As you can see 80% of AA is LOW or NORMAL. Maybe in your particular case there were more ACE AA generated in the convoy.

We need a heads up message poping 30, 15 and 5 minutes before end of mission => mission last 1:30 plus random 0-15 minutes.

1 ton+ bombs shouldn't be allowed as only a few of them will rip an objective off the map (or being a very hard item to obtain once the system in available) => good point

A rule like "if there are not more than 10 people active and less than 3 active in 1 side, then the mission results are not taken into account and the same mission is set again" to avoid lone wolfes to win the war. => lone wolfs will be destroyed by AA if they attack alone or in unorganized way.

Perhaps some industrial objectives for strategic bombing could bring more people... => good point, but for many pilots flying without GPS isn't easy and they simply avoid this kind of servers. This is key factor in my opinion.

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Quick translation: I can destroy supply convoys or tank columns on the G2 without much problem. If I can do that, then anyone can! The main thing is to monitor the action, carefully plan the attack, and also the exit after attacking.

Attacking defensive positions alone is extremely dangerous, nearly impossible, but 2-3 coordinated fighters can do that without any trouble.

Blakhart, please, no need to make anything easier - it won't be interesting that way!

If you will still have problems we invite you on TS so you will have chance to fly with us and see how it can be done.

S!

Will do, I was on you rTS saturday when it occured ! And I'll try to come back with more of my NN buddies next time I guess we had some ACE AAA on both convoys last time, your random rule seems the way to go.

As our russian friend said, with a single G2 he can take out an entire convoy, so perhaps the rule to not taking into account the mission result if not enough active player could be a good point to add if even possible.

Thanks for the bombs

Of course things have to be tweaked a little here and there and it will find the right spot after some time I believe. I guess you have the stats of the missions, taking a look at this number of active players and the results could help us see if the rule I'm referring to is needed or not!

Oh, and the AAR that was done a few messages before about the fights that were happening before is very well appreciated, we can see how our actions leaded to victory or lost!

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High speed can make you harder to hit but it also means that once you are hit the chance if catastrophic damage is much higher.

For example, being hit by a 37mm shell on the wing while flying at 300 km/h will surely make your day harder, but being hit by that same shell on the wing at 700 km/h is very likely to rip your wing off.

The approach angle is everything here - if you are trying to hit a flak gun with your guns, it doesn't matter if you are at 150 km/h or 1200 km/h. To the gunner you are still a dot flying straight into their sight and requiring little correction. However, if you provide a crossing shot then your speed starts working how you want it to.

If you must attack alone, drop a bomb onto that flak gun from 300m, then go strafing things.

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The idea is to fly in such a way that the AAA tracks your movement with a high deflection shot - missing in the process and that you than change direction towards them before they can take aim at you -> as they are still tracking you.

If there is only one or two AAA guns its doable, however with 5 or 6 AAA its suicide to attack such a position alone.

Worst tactic is to fly straight at the AAA gun - he just aims straight at you and shoots. Speed is completly irrelevant.

If you fly past the AAA and than comence the attack of course the speed is a big factor. A slow IL2 will get shot to bits compared to a fast fighter.

Therefore its always best to attack in a group - 2 or 3 fighters distract the AAA - pulling the fire on them whilst flying past and at a slight delay the other fighters / attackers take out the AAA positions. It needs a few runs and they need to be coordinated, but it can be done without losses.

It is still dangerous however.

The best way is however to bomb from safety to take the AAA out and than finnish the job with attackers with 37mm guns or....

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The idea is to fly in such a way that the AAA tracks your movement with a high deflection shot - missing in the process and that you than change direction towards them before they can take aim at you -> as they are still tracking you.

If there is only one or two AAA guns its doable, however with 5 or 6 AAA its suicide to attack such a position alone.

Worst tactic is to fly straight at the AAA gun - he just aims straight at you and shoots. Speed is completly irrelevant.

If you fly past the AAA and than comence the attack of course the speed is a big factor. A slow IL2 will get shot to bits compared to a fast fighter.

Therefore its always best to attack in a group - 2 or 3 fighters distract the AAA - pulling the fire on them whilst flying past and at a slight delay the other fighters / attackers take out the AAA positions. It needs a few runs and they need to be coordinated, but it can be done without losses.

It is still dangerous however.

The best way is however to bomb from safety to take the AAA out and than finnish the job with attackers with 37mm guns or....

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Well Ramm, your overall victory is more important than your streak, your aircraft and your survival.

Regardless of how strong the AAA is, even if you fly alone you need to go and find a way to execute an attack. You can come parallel to the convoy then break in hard once you pass the AA gun and shoot up the trucks. Alternatively, fly straight at the convoy and drop row of bombs at the AA truck fromm 300m-500m.

It may not feel like it, but your skill is just as important when attacking ground targets. Only this time, you know where the enemy is and what their firing angles are so you can work with it.

Worst case scenario, take a Ju-87/Ju-88/He-111 and raze the target to the ground from a certain altitud then clean it up with the Bf-109.

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Personally I'm OK with the AAA over defense lines, speaking as someone who died roasted in his lagg yesterday because the canopy wouldn't open after being shot by a pair of MGs from the ground. That not everybody who took off could be sure to make it back alive is just how things were. I've been doing mostly ground attack on this server, and in over 5h I haven't been insta-killed by AAA once. At least for now dying in the game isn't too penalising. We'll see how things go with plane restrictions are put in place.

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Rammjager you attacked once or twice (probably alone) convoy, destroyed 16 ground units and was killed by AA. Take a look at VSG1_Raven for example: he destroyed 470 ground units and pilot was killed by AA only 3 times.

Some of us are good as fighters and some as bombers/attackers

Small update: One lost airplane is resupplied after 3 combat missions. Combat mission is a "LANDED"/"IN FLIGHT" sortie with AK/GK or at least 10 minutes last without any AK/GK.

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Landed status can be goten also with a damaged plane - as long as no critical damage is there.

Usually bent prop / engine out is the decider between landed in service status and crash landed status.

I have landed a heavily damaged Pe2 before where both engines were smoking, I was leaking badly and was wounded, but pulled off a landing where the props were still ok - that status was landed in the stats and ingame it said in service.

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You have a great server going and enjoy the challenges it presents and the fact that each sortie actually matters other than just rolling a map.

This is my biggest concern. Anyone can see the types of planes (fighters or bombers) that are being flown by the enemy simply by looking at the airfield icons since fighters and bomber airfields are separated. This is especially true when the numbers are low on the server. This is intel that shouldn't exist in my opinion. My best suggestion is to merge the separated fighter and bomber airfields to one airfield at each location HOWEVER have a different bomber/fighter mix at each airfield. During the war not every aircraft was available at every airfield. So you would have, for example, a few airfields with Pe-2s and half the fighter types and a few airfields with IL-2s and the other half of the fighter types. Players coordinating their sorties that want to fly one type of bomber available at one airfield with fighters from another airfield would have to form up, just like they did in the real war. You could still keep bomber spawn points just off the runways and fighters on aprons. The separation of plane types at different airfields and keeping the different spawn points for fighters and bombers should cut down on potential spawning congestion as a result of merging the fighter/bomber airfields.

The spawn points that are right on the runways need to moved back to avoid collisions with landing aircraft. This has occurred.

Players that level bomb do not need GPS. In a bomber there is much more time available to allow for navigation. The addition of strategic targets would be a welcomed addition. Not sure how their destruction would affect supply or other dynamics.

I agree with the suggested restriction on German ordnance larger than what is available to the VVS, i.e., 500kg. Their bombers would still have the advantage of being able to carry more bombs which I have no problem with.

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My best suggestion is to merge the separated fighter and bomber airfields to one airfield at each location HOWEVER have a different bomber/fighter mix at each airfield.

This is a brilliant idea, and it will help cooperation since you'll have aircraft of the same group taking-off together so people can just stick together even outside of TeamSpeak.

If you guys do go ahead with it, I suggest making the LaGG-3 always available where the Il-2 is for historical reasons. Many ShAP (Attack Aviation Regiment) had an AE (squadron) of LaGG-3s assigned to it for escort duties.

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Different problem for me, sometimes I get thrown back the server browser. Leaving the game and deleting lg_mpl.* from data/Multiplayer/dogfight usually solves the issue. Maybe it cures your illness too, RugbyGoth

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We attacked sadovoye, but the capture rule was not clear, we cleaned the AA and then landed 5 Pe2, but after rotation sadovoye was still german

So we went there again, bombed it the hard way (2x500kg bombs) and then landed 4 Pe2. But most the hangar we bombed were still intact (we needed 2x500kg to bring 1 down), right now rotation didn't happened so I don't know if it worked. But we had lots of german planes spawning during our landings and after...

After we took our 500kg against an artillery position, but the ammo dump were very hard too, 500kg wasn't enough to kill it...

I have tracks of our attacks if you need them.

This server is going to be the prefered among french pilots, I believe!

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I would recommend that the mission time be extended to a minimum of 2 hours.

Example of issue: I made a level bombing run on an airfield with a Pe-2. This was a transit run where I took off from one airfield and landed at another as this was actually quicker. It obviously takes a while to get to altitude and my time for the sortie was 42 minutes. This is about average for me for level bombing. Two such sorties pretty much hit the wall within existing mission times, especially if any time has elapsed when the sortie starts. Not knowing remaining time, I would most likely not make a second level bombing run, even though it may be needed, as it is frustrating to have a mission end just short of target. As a result I am forced to either take a different type of plane or wait until the server rolls.

As a related matter, the in-game timer would be a big assist for making decisions on level bombing runs. I understand your reasoning for not having the remaining time show on the stats page in-game, i.e. players making kamikazes runs at end of missions, but I am not sure this applies to the type of players that your server attracts.

Cheers!

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You register a squadron and choose the specialization, fighters or bombers, then after you gained enough points you could choose one of the planeset lines for the whole war ( ie. Emil-4 -> 109 F-4 -> G-2 -> FW 190 A4 - FW 190 A5 or different variation ).

The squadron had limited number of planes and was BASED ONLY ON 1 field!

So you could take off only from that choosed base.

The squadron C/O or X/O could rebase the unit 1 time per mission, so you could operate on the north in 1 mission and then rebase to the south on another.

But...

This was forcing people to get few accounts, 1 for bomber, 2nd for attacket, 3rd for fighter.

Here we all have usually one, because changing nicknames is not so easy like it was in old il21946.

For now, we dont have script connected to www site. We would like to have the most realistic settings but for now we are limited.

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I think a good compromise could be using some basic military logic for distributing aircraft. Suppose each side has three airfields, one right at the front, one halfway there and a last one far off.

Attack aviation (Ju-87/Bf-110/Il-2) and a specific type of escort fighter/fighter-bomber (like the Bf-109G-2/LaGG-3) would be based right by the front.

On the second base you'd have fighters tasked with sweeps and air defence (for example, La-5/Yak-1), plus tactical bombers (Pe-2/Ju-88) which can be covered by these.

On the last base, you'd have strategic aviation and escorts, namely the He-111/Pe-2 and the fighters with longest range on each side (like the MiG-3).

That way you'd have the strategic aviation having time and distance to climb out for attacks, the tactical bombers would be able to get to a nice level for diving and the good old attack aircraft would be flying sorties non-stop.

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You register a squadron and choose the specialization, fighters or bombers, then after you gained enough points you could choose one of the planeset lines for the whole war ( ie. Emil-4 -> 109 F-4 -> G-2 -> FW 190 A4 - FW 190 A5 or different variation ).

The squadron had limited number of planes and was BASED ONLY ON 1 field!

So you could take off only from that choosed base.

The squadron C/O or X/O could rebase the unit 1 time per mission, so you could operate on the north in 1 mission and then rebase to the south on another.

But...

This was forcing people to get few accounts, 1 for bomber, 2nd for attacket, 3rd for fighter.

Here we all have usually one, because changing nicknames is not so easy like it was in old il21946.

For now, we dont have script connected to www site. We would like to have the most realistic settings but for now we are limited.

Thx for sharing your thoughts.

Thanks for your reply but, with all due respect, I fail to see that your response has anything to do with what I suggested. I think something is missing in translation. Maybe someone can help me understand.

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Sorry, my fault. I was writing from smartphone, some part of the text was "eaten"

Anyways, the sense was like, I wanted to explain how it was done in ADW and what we would like to have here, but now its impossible due technical issues.

About idea with mixed planeset on different units.

Its interesting but:

1. Everyone has rights to decide where he will have own base.

2. Sometimes fast, sneaky attack is a crucial tactic when the enemy have the numerous advantage and you still want to defend the area.

3. The front line is moving, so imagine how much calculation we would need to let the generator rebase correctly everyecvery unit after every mission where the airfields were captured.

It can generate a lot of bugs.

I understand your reasoning for not having the remaining time show on the stats page in-game, i.e. players making kamikazes runs at end of missions, but I am not sure this applies to the type of players that your server attracts.

If you will allow people to do "something" they will start to do it sooner or later.

The rules need to be idiot-resistant as much as they can :D

But.A lot of people were asking to increase the time of mission so we are not stubborn dumnbc%nt$. I will create the poll about it, plz vote

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Sorry, my fault. I was writing from smartphone, some part of the text was "eaten"

Anyways, the sense was like, I wanted to explain how it was done in ADW and what we would like to have here, but now its impossible due technical issues.

About idea with mixed planeset on different units.

Its interesting but:

1. Everyone has rights to decide where he will have own base.

2. Sometimes fast, sneaky attack is a crucial tactic when the enemy have the numerous advantage and you still want to defend the area.

3. The front line is moving, so imagine how much calculation we would need to let the generator rebase correctly everyecvery unit after every mission where the airfields were captured.

It can generate a lot of bugs.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify the post. I can especially see how #3 could create issues. The concern however of being able to see what type of aircraft (fighter or bomber) each side is flying due to the airfield set up is still an issue IMO. The perfect solution would be if the game allowed the mission maker to use an airfield icon that suppresses to the opposing side that someone is flying from an airfield. Unfortunately, I don't believe that exists though maybe this should be suggested to the devs.

Since having a mix of different aircraft at various airfields is not possible, what about just combining the airfields (fighter and bombers) at each location with all the allowed aircraft types? This allows players to fly from any airfield, with any type plane you have allowed, without giving away to the enemy whether they are flying a fighter or bomber.

If having more than one spawn point on one airfield (bombers on runway, fighters on aprons) is an issue with combined fighter/bomber airfields, than I would suggest putting all aircraft types on the aprons and having everyone taxi. Even on the busiest servers with all planes available at each airfield, this does not present problems.

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Ok, so the plan is to connect www registration to server so everyone would have own account and could check there what planes they have in hangar ATM.

So the info about the type of planes will be hidden.

Since having a mix of different aircraft at various airfields is not possible, what about just combining the airfields (fighter and bombers) at each location with all the allowed aircraft types? This allows players to fly from any airfield, with any type plane you have allowed, without giving away to the enemy whether they are flying a fighter or bomber.

Hmm... if I understood you correctly...mate, now we have all planes on all airfields.

The spawn points for bombers and fighters are on different places on THE SAME BASE to avoid ground collisions especially at the begin of the mission when everyone wants to use the runway.

You need to zoom in on map to choose the bomber of fighter spawn point, because they are very close to each other and you might not see both of them when you have wide map view.

Plz fix me If my logic is wrong or you have something different on your mind.S!

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The spawn points for bombers and fighters are on different places on THE SAME BASE to avoid ground collisions especially at the begin of the mission when everyone wants to use the runway.

And this is a major problem in my opinion! Bombers are spawning on the side of the runway. So when you want to fly in group you have to avoid your other teammates that are at the "parking" to go at the beginning of the runway. Also, when you want to land, you must land on the left side of the runway or you can collide with someone who just spawned...

Also, last night we had a german spawning in Ju87 again and again despite being shot all the time. I believe he tried to block the runway with its plane so we can't land and cap the airfield... You should put one and only spawn, parkings are generally large enough for everyone (and when a big flight is online, they will manage it as we do, the first online are going to the taxiway to let the other spawn.)