Memeorandum

February 16, 2018

School Shootings, Gun Control, And Red Flag Laws

There are partisans on both sides of the gun control screaming match that rely on hyperbolic rhetoric to rouse their donors. To pick an example seemingly at random, people like Hillary Clinton will prefer to pander rather than lead.

However, I am feeling a mad surge of optimism today. From the right, let me single out Dan McLaughlin as a hard-headed righty who is surely not a reflexive gun grabber yet seems to be fed up with the current non-debate (OK, that may be me projecting...). A snippet:

There are only easy answers if you are willing to sacrifice rights you don't care about, and that other people do. That's never been a solution Americans could pursue without embarrassment and regret. Unless and until we can find a better, more reliable way to identify potential mass shooters early, we have to acknowledge the nature of the choice before us: Punish many innocent people or remain mostly defenseless against the malicious few.

Nobody wants to make one side of that trade. But nobody wants to face the other side either.

And on the left, Nick Kristof recycles a column where he tried to actually talk a bit of sense into his fellow lefties. Let me extract this:

Frankly, liberal opposition to guns has often been ineffective, and sometimes counterproductive. The 10-year ban on assault weapons accomplished little, partly because definitions were about cosmetic features like bayonet mounts (and partly because even before the ban, such guns were used in only 2 percent of crimes).

Whoa, say what?!? Normally libs are eager to parade their utter lack of knowledge of guns by railing about an assault weapons ban as the first order of business. That does not generally lead to a calm and productive discussion. On the other hand, the Washington Post showssignsthat they are not afraid of the truth on gun control, which is a hopeful sign.

In any case, I would like to see Messrs. McLaughlin and Kristof co-chair a Pundits Panel on gun control. Their chief of staff can be Leah Libresco, author of "I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise."

Five states allow guns to be seized before someone can commit violence

In the wake of massacres like Wednesday’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla., a small number of states have passed “red flag laws” that allow the seizure of guns before people can commit acts of violence.

California, Washington, Oregon, Indiana and Connecticut have statutes that can be used to temporarily take guns away from people whom a judge deems a threat to themselves or others. Lawmakers in 18 other states — including Florida — plus the District of Columbia have proposed similar measures. At the federal level, California lawmakers Rep. Salud Carbajal (D) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) introduced legislation last May that would encourage states to adopt the approach.

Mental illness, escalating threats, substance abuse and domestic violence are among the circumstances in which a judge can order weapon restrictions under the laws.

That is a court-supervised process that could be effective while preserving due process rights, unlike the absurd proposals to expand the role of the No Fly list to become a No Buy list as well.

Some of the other Kristof suggestions, such as raising the legal gun purchase age to 21, as with cigarettes and alcohol, don't faze me. I should add that he notes domestic violence restraining orders but does not expand on that to pick up the Red Flag Laws. I have no doubt he would support it, however, and yes, that gives me pause.

In any case, there are some positive steps we could take that might improve our national record on gun violence while respecting (but slightly rebalancing, under court supervision) our right of self defense. And as a matter of pure politics it might behoove the Republicans to put forward some ideas of their own rather than simply knock down the stupider ideas from the other side.

Connecticut is one of the five states with a Red Flag law. Their law, passed in 1999, did not prevent Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook horror, but with a different "See something, say something" social norm, who can say? In any case, here is a Duke study on the impact of that law.

For those who can separate citations from the source, here is an Everytown article with lots of footnotes on Red Flag laws. Distrust but verify!

You know what I want to see? A "Red Flag" law that says is a media outlet reports false news more then three times in a one-month period, we can make it so that the court can seize their means of broadcasting under a court-sponsored process that protects their assets, but still prevents them from lying to the American people.

I also want to propose a change to the official JoM style guide wherein, from now on, we refer to the 2012 Republican candidate as Mitt "Loser" Romney.

Why would Trump turn to Mitt as a go to guy in the Senate? He’ll have no seniority and no leadership position.

Frederick in the back of the plane just text that he just read that 7 kids a day are killed by guns and that there have been 30 mass shootings this year alone. I replied if he was reading the Chicago paper:)

I don't understand why everyone is so down on the FBI in the Florida shooting. The agency has to prioritize their agents, and there have been a lot of demands on them recently. It is not easy trying to manufacture evidence of collusion to take down a sitting president, and since they are fully committed to the Mueller counter-coup, they have to be cut some slack on doing other, unimportant, things like keeping school children from being butchered by murderous psychopaths who announce their intentions on Facebook using their own names.

David:
Well said.
TK:
Romney wants legal immigrants treated fairly and doesn’t want illegals jumping the line I believe.
Another Bob:
By fairy tales you mean of course the one about Romney challenging Trump in 2020right?
What other fairy tales are you referring to?
The fact that Romney saved the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics?
That most feel he has a real chance of becoming Senator.
That he was an effective Governor of Massachusetts and an astute Business man similar to Trump in his success in that area.Those are known facts.
Your theories and those of others are opinions, theories and some major spitballing.

Aha! Fred just texted he got the stats from Everytown. After reading how the count shootings a schools (I.e. you heard a gun shot, suicides etc) he texts that people need to read the whole story but the drive by media won’t let them. He’s a Rush baby👍😊

"Connecticut is one of the five states with a Red Flag law. Their law, passed in 1999, did not prevent Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook"

Ahh, it's a semi-strong argument. IIRC Lanza killed his mom and took her guns. She was evidently not going to get a court order requiring her to turn in her own weapons. Nor would she need one since she could do it herself, but a court order keeping her son from buying weapons would have been available.

But some of the other nut jobs (they are almost ALL nutjobs) might have been stopped. Or slowed. I guess it depends on the relatives and their own situation.

Regrading gun registration; except for a few local tyrannical laws like the Sullivan act in NY City and a few state "assault weapons" laws, guns aren't "registered".
The FBI is required by law to not retain the records of NICS checks...which gives me much less reassurance than it used to.

I would have enjoyed calling Romney the B word had he not allowed the Democrats to reach down his throat and pull his testicles back into their pre birth storage pocket shortly before he apologized for connecting with his potential voters using a subtle birther joke.

Buck Sexton
@BuckSexton
So what does Mueller think of a foreigner (Steele) using the information of other foreigners (Russians) to meddle in our election through “information warfare” fed to US media and the FBI in secret?

Former President Bill Clinton told a federal court that he'd like to weigh in on whether sealed documents from his 1998 grand jury investigation should be released to the public http://cnn.it/2CsgBni
======================
I'll just bet he would like to "weigh in." LOL!

If Mueller believes spending 7 million bucks to indict 13 Russians who he will never prosecute is a good deflection from 17 people murdered in FL because the FBI couldn't be bothered, he's dumber than he looks.

Way back, a long time ago in Internet time, the Utah GOP leader was complaining about Romney's announcement today about throwing his hat in the ring for the Senate job, which would have happened previously except for the Florida school shooting. What nobody is talking about is that it would have been a good idea for unifying figure and maximum conscience of the party Romney to have given the state party a heads up that this was going to happen. I'm sure the state party had their own ideas about how to replace Hatch, which may or may not have included WMR, and to be blindsided by an unexpected national announcement would have had me spitting nails and sending out some very critical tweets.