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Re: How we should attack the Patriots

Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85

You front 7 is better than Denver's now? They've got Dumervill, Miller, Wolfe, Woodyard, Bannan (very underrated), Brooking (old, but still quite good). You guys have Vince Wilfork and a bunch of "guys." Also, they had the number 3 run defense, where you guys were like 9th or 10th. They allowed 3.6 p/c whereas you guys were 3.9. So how exactly is your run defense better and more disciplined than theirs? You guys have size in your front seven, but they've got speed, size and physicality...and Rice still ran for 130 yards against them.

Jerod Mayo is perhaps the best MLB in the AFC and starting his 2nd probowl. He is in the top 5 in tackles and has like 4 sacks. Not only that but he can play both ILB and OLB as well. Fellow LB Brandon Spikes can also play both positions, but has animal strength to shed blockers and excels both in pass coverage (great instincts for the ball) and tops against the run. Many experts pick him as the top LB in the league against the run. In college, he also played defensive end. Rookie Dont'a Hightower is a very good young player that's growing, but growing fast. He has 4 sacks, and possesses some good juice on the outside and good in run defense. He too can play and line up at defensive end. His fellow first round pick Chandler Jones was on pace at the beginning of the season for becoming a sack leader until he got hurt. Started out with 3 forced fumbles and seven sacks. Can be a freak that often demands double and even triple teams because of his athleticism and size. He is getting healthier now, and despite not getting sacks all the time, he still creates impactful pressures leading to big plays for others. Opposite end Rob Ninkovich who can also play outside linebacker, looks like Mike Vrabel, and plays better than him it seems because of his big play ability during the most clutch moments. It could be a forced fumble, strip sack, or long sack on a key third down, interception or something to change a game. Not only that but he has been consistent and managed to rack up 9 sacks and 4 forced fumbles on the season. Could have easily made the probowl but did make some all pro teams of many experts. He adds an extra dimension at Linebacker as well as production from the defensive end position. Vince Wilfork is self explanatory and I don't have to go into depth about him. Legendary and impactful.. simple as that. Kyle Love, the other nose tackle is smaller, but quick and choppy and very underrated. Rotation players Jermaine Cunningham, Justin Francis and Trevor Scott are all guys that perform, produce and can all play the linebacker roles.. they share 8 sacks, and 4 forced fumbles between them... So to day that NE's front seven is better than Denver's is definitely not exaggerating, plus defenses aren't judged during the regular season but how you perform in the playoffs when the heat is turned up the highest.. Remember, the only reason Houston stayed in the game was because of those two long kick off returns... other than that the score was 30-13.

Re: How we should attack the Patriots

Originally Posted by Critical Thinking

Rotation players Jermaine Cunningham, Justin Francis and Trevor Scott are all guys that perform, produce and can all play the linebacker roles.. they share 8 sacks, and 4 forced fumbles between them...

All household names no doubt...

Originally Posted by Critical Thinking

So to say that NE's front seven is better than Denver's is definitely not exaggerating

Um, it sure as hell is. You don't have one pure pass rusher that is half what Von Miller is.

So not only do the Pats now have the "#1" secondary since Talib, but now also the #1 front 7 too? Wow...it is amazing you guys lost 4 games.

Seriously...do you think anyone here believes this BS?

Originally Posted by Critical Thinking

plus defenses aren't judged during the regular season but how you perform in the playoffs when the heat is turned up the highest.

Um...no, they are judged on how well they performed overall. Denver didn't allow a single 300 yard passer all season until the playoffs, including TOM fucking BRADY himself.

Please, just stop. No one in the world believes that the Pats now have this world beater juggernaut defense you are running on about.

Re: How we should attack the Patriots

Um, it sure as hell is. You don't have one pure pass rusher that is half what Von Miller is.

So not only do the Pats now have the "#1" secondary since Talib, but now also the #1 front 7 too? Wow...it is amazing you guys lost 4 games.

Seriously...do you think anyone here believes this BS?

Um...no, they are judged on how well they performed overall. Denver didn't allow a single 300 yard passer all season until the playoffs, including TOM fucking BRADY himself.

Please, just stop. No one in the world believes that the Pats now have this world beater juggernaut defense you are running on about.

I didn't say a juggernaut defense if you read, I'm stating defensive strengths and capabilities. I never said number one or anything .. But they always show up when they have to. That's something Denver's defense DIDN'T do when they had to, and THATS what people remember and notice. Denver's defense is at home, and NE is in the AFC Championship game.. with all that "didn't allow a single 300 yard passer all season" hoopla, don't matter now..

Re: How we should attack the Patriots

Originally Posted by Critical Thinking

Jerod Mayo is perhaps the best MLB in the AFC and starting his 2nd probowl. He is in the top 5 in tackles and has like 4 sacks. Not only that but he can play both ILB and OLB as well. Fellow LB Brandon Spikes can also play both positions, but has animal strength to shed blockers and excels both in pass coverage (great instincts for the ball) and tops against the run. Many experts pick him as the top LB in the league against the run. In college, he also played defensive end. Rookie Dont'a Hightower is a very good young player that's growing, but growing fast. He has 4 sacks, and possesses some good juice on the outside and good in run defense. He too can play and line up at defensive end. His fellow first round pick Chandler Jones was on pace at the beginning of the season for becoming a sack leader until he got hurt. Started out with 3 forced fumbles and seven sacks. Can be a freak that often demands double and even triple teams because of his athleticism and size. He is getting healthier now, and despite not getting sacks all the time, he still creates impactful pressures leading to big plays for others. Opposite end Rob Ninkovich who can also play outside linebacker, looks like Mike Vrabel, and plays better than him it seems because of his big play ability during the most clutch moments. It could be a forced fumble, strip sack, or long sack on a key third down, interception or something to change a game. Not only that but he has been consistent and managed to rack up 9 sacks and 4 forced fumbles on the season. Could have easily made the probowl but did make some all pro teams of many experts. He adds an extra dimension at Linebacker as well as production from the defensive end position. Vince Wilfork is self explanatory and I don't have to go into depth about him. Legendary and impactful.. simple as that. Kyle Love, the other nose tackle is smaller, but quick and choppy and very underrated. Rotation players Jermaine Cunningham, Justin Francis and Trevor Scott are all guys that perform, produce and can all play the linebacker roles.. they share 8 sacks, and 4 forced fumbles between them... So to day that NE's front seven is better than Denver's is definitely not exaggerating, plus defenses aren't judged during the regular season but how you perform in the playoffs when the heat is turned up the highest.. Remember, the only reason Houston stayed in the game was because of those two long kick off returns... other than that the score was 30-13.

I'm not buying Jerod Mayo as the top MLB/ILB in the AFC, it's ludicrous. He's a good player, no doubt, but I'd take Brian Cushing, Lawrence Timmons, Derrick Johnson, Dqwell Jackson over him. Brandon Spikes is a one-dimensional downhill linebacker, the type of guy you can often get off the heap as an UDFA. We have a guy like that, Ellerbe, and he's playing well and we didn't have to spend a draft pick on him. Hightower is a decent player, but seems like he has a low-ceiling. Chandler Jones is very raw and had most of his success against struggling OLines, he's no Dumvervill or Von Miller. Hell, he struggled against Michael Oher when the Pats played Baltimore in week 3. Against McKinnie, he'll be stone-walled. Rob Ninkovich makes a few plays here and there, but I he's a guy who can be stone-walled by one blocker. The rest of the guys you mentioned are basically third specialists and rotational guys. They're not likely to take over games and dominate. Denver's front seven is nightmarish, with Dumervill, Miller, Wolfe, Bannan, the speedy Woodyard, just a terror. Miller dominated against your tackle Vollmer in the second half of Denver @ New England. You defense beat on an overmatched Texans team with the mental Matt Schaud who is as far from a big game quarter as there is in the NFL, so I'm supposed to believe you guys' are the '85 Bears all of a sudden? Psssh.

Re: How we should attack the Patriots

I was saying the same thing yesterday in a thread about Pats fans' huge sense of entitlement. Put them in the AFC North, and boom 4 W's (Buffalo & Miami) are traded for 3 possible splits (or worse): Pitts., Ravens, Cincy. Who's entitled now?

Is this a joke? Brady is 4-0 vs the Bengals, 6-2 vs the Steelers, and 5-2 vs the Ravens. That's 15-4 against your vaunted AFC North. Not to mention Brady is undefeated against the Browns. You guys are lucky we're not in the AFC North otherwise you might not sniff the playoffs more so than you do now.

Re: How we should attack the Patriots

Originally Posted by PatsFan in MD

Is this a joke? Brady is 4-0 vs the Bengals, 6-2 vs the Steelers, and 5-2 vs the Ravens. That's 15-4 against your vaunted AFC North. Not to mention Brady is undefeated against the Browns. You guys are lucky we're not in the AFC North otherwise you might not sniff the playoffs more so than you do now.

Great now I'm gonna have to be reminded about that 2010 nightmare in Cleveland

Torrey's 40 times seem to be up and down--if we're to believe he can hit the mid 4.2's then he can be faster than McCourty; otherwise their speed is at a virtual tie.

Where Torrey clearly has the advantage is size, strength, height and vertical leap.

So, if Joe sees Torrey one on one with McCourty, he can just throw it high enough that Torrey can go up and get it, but too high for McCourty to reach.

Also Torrey's getting a head start in momentum when he starts a route. Talib has to accelerate at a faster rate to get even due to his starting position and orientation. And even if he could, those few fractions of a second where he's a step behind is enough to complete a pass.

Re: How we should attack the Patriots

McCourty will provide help for Talib on the deep post to Smith. He won't make the same error the den saftey did at the end of the first half - he'll get there in time to grab that throw instead of Smith.