Which idiot though it was a good idea to simply screw the bindings to the ski, without any kind of inserts or whatever?

It probably is best if i just invest a few € and get it done by a pro, but the problem is, most wont install such an old binding, so i might have to do it myself, without destroying the skis.

Also: I know that skiing with climbing boots is going to suck, so a) i will test it quite a bit before venturing into harder terrain (given i can get the binding onto the skis) b) i thought about ways to make the shoe stiffer for downhill. Something like a splint to strap on the boot or a modified snowboard binding comes to mind. Somehow i cant believe that i am the first to think of something like that (given the various threads on skiing in mountain boots here, and the generally high price levels for antique silvretta bindings). Anyone got any ideas?

Silvretta bindings + mountaineering boots = a virtually unskiable setup! It will work to get you to the base of a route and then back to the car, but don't even dream about skiing any major descents with that gear.

Silvretta bindings + mountaineering boots = a virtually unskiable setup! It will work to get you to the base of a route and then back to the car, but don't even dream about skiing any major descents with that gear.

I have to agree with this, but I think the level of unskiability varies with the boot you have. I skied silvretta 404s and La Sportiva K4s at the ski hill last year and didn't find it that terrible. This year though, I have La Sportiva Baturas, which are a much more flexible boot, and I can barely ski the same set up at all. I wouldn't want to be in any situation in them where my skiing actually mattered.

I am fully aware that this setup is not going to deliver perfect downhill performance, and i am probably not going to replace my renegades with the Fritschi Freeride binding with that.

Obviously i will test it first what i can do with it, before i venture in the backcountry with it. And thats where the idea with the splint comes in. If i find a way to make them stiffer, i could probably do quite a lot with it, since i dont care about boots to much anyways. I often go skiing, and forget to put my boots into downhill mode, or forget to really close them, and it does not adversely affect my skiing. I am just not sure wether that tells me that i am actually a really good skier, or a really bad one

I just started skiing I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but I read a article that Colin Haley wrote for cascadeclimbers.com where he talks about using cords connecting the tips of your skis right below your knees to stiffen up the skis while wearing climbing boots, http://cascadeclimbers.com/...-hardware-part-three this may help.

Silvretta bindings + mountaineering boots = a virtually unskiable setup! It will work to get you to the base of a route and then back to the car, but don't even dream about skiing any major descents with that gear.

I totally disagree along with onarunning. Silvretta lsv 500's (same attachment mechanism as the 404), along with vasque ice 9000 boots were my only ski setup for a while. It even got me down an occasional steep descent.

I just started skiing I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but I read a article that Colin Haley wrote for cascadeclimbers.com where he talks about using cords connecting the tips of your skis right below your knees to stiffen up the skis while wearing climbing boots, http://cascadeclimbers.com/...-hardware-part-three this may help.

Sounds like an interesting idea, but i doubt that it will work. sure, the way its described (cord to the front of the ski) will make it harder to fall backwards with a heavy backpack, but for the skiing performance to actually increase, i have to lean forward, so i also have to put on a cord to the back of the ski.

apart from the cords probably getting in the way, i doubt that it positively affect the performance of the skis, if the back constantly gets pulled upwards while skiing, totally "destroying" any tension the skiis have by default.

Years ago both Galibier and Granite Gear sold cuffs to improve the ski-ability of mountaineering boots. Ramer working with Mike Lowe developed a leash type setup going from the tip of the ski to just below one's knee.You might poke around eBay or something. Also I don't agree with your thoughts regarding Ti screws; I was referring to surface area vs. depth, and yes,of course, steel screws place faster.(older post)

I just started skiing I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but I read a article that Colin Haley wrote for cascadeclimbers.com where he talks about using cords connecting the tips of your skis right below your knees to stiffen up the skis while wearing climbing boots, http://cascadeclimbers.com/...-hardware-part-three this may help.

Sounds like an interesting idea, but i doubt that it will work. sure, the way its described (cord to the front of the ski) will make it harder to fall backwards with a heavy backpack, but for the skiing performance to actually increase, i have to lean forward, so i also have to put on a cord to the back of the ski.

apart from the cords probably getting in the way, i doubt that it positively affect the performance of the skis, if the back constantly gets pulled upwards while skiing, totally "destroying" any tension the skiis have by default.

qwert

The cords are not designed to be under constant tension. In a regular alpine ski boot, you have a rigid plastic cuff wrapping your entire calf which prevents you from tipping over backwards if your weight ever gets off your toes (which happens all the time). In a mountaineering boot, you don't have that high cuff and you will have nothing stopping you from tipping backwards. Your bindings will pre-release and you will immediately fall out of your bindings. The cords prevent that.

I have skied in the cords plenty on my approach ski setup. They're a life saver, especially in variable terrain and when skiing with a pack. FWIW, the Spantik is probably the best-skiing boot out there right now. The Batura is one of the worst (no fault of its own, it's just super flexible and designed for high end mixed climbing).

Any boot you ski in, take it out for a test ski first... maybe 3-4 miles minimum. You do this to find where you're developing blister hotspots because I guarantee you will. Manage them before you go out for a real climb.

The cords are not designed to be under constant tension. In a regular alpine ski boot, you have a rigid plastic cuff wrapping your entire calf which prevents you from tipping over backwards if your weight ever gets off your toes (which happens all the time). In a mountaineering boot, you don't have that high cuff and you will have nothing stopping you from tipping backwards. Your bindings will pre-release and you will immediately fall out of your bindings. The cords prevent that.

I think i can understand the idea behind the front cords, and i believe that they will work against falling backwards. However to improve the skiing, i have to lean forwards, which would necessitate a cord to the back, which would be under constant tension.

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I have skied in the cords plenty on my approach ski setup. They're a life saver, especially in variable terrain and when skiing with a pack.

Any hints/pics on the details of your setup? Maybe i will give it a try.

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Any boot you ski in, take it out for a test ski first... maybe 3-4 miles minimum. You do this to find where you're developing blister hotspots because I guarantee you will. Manage them before you go out for a real climb.

Yeah, thats the plan. I found it out the hard way that my normal touring setup isnt meant for long stretches of horizontal

10 to 20 cm on the mountain already. The precipitation the next few days will probably come down as snow. I hope theres enough for a testdrive soon.

It definitely is not unskiable, but everything steeper than about 20 to 30° is really hard, and ends mostly in a fall. And while i did not fall on the lower angle stuff, i probably did not look graceful at all

I guess that would get a bit better if i mount it to some new skis. At the moment i still have it on the skis it came with, that are too long and dont have any sidecut. However they are rockin some awfull 80s neon colors, a computer manufactured base and a racing edge (whatever that might be) and seem to be endorsed by Reinhold Messner, so i at least get a stile bonus for them ...

So i just have to figure out if its really just the skis (i just have to try them with my real ski boots and see how they handle with proper boots), or if it is indeed the boots, and if so, figure out something to attach to the boots to make them stiffer for downhill.

for uphill and flat, going in normal boots rocks! It probably is not as good as a uphill centric dynafit set, or a proper cross country tele set, but much better than my downhill centric Touring setup. If i figure out something to make them a bit more bearable for downhill, this might be a good setup for going distances.

It is readily available on the used market and makes an excellent approach binding for use with mountaineering boots (to prevent injury with such use we recommend not latching your heels down as softer climbing boots will not reliably actuate the safety release.)

Anyone an idea what they could mean with that? Simply adjusting the binding to lower values as one would with a "proper" alpine setup? Not fitting the binding to thight on the boot? Or using it as a tele binding?

The latter theoretically sounds somewhat like a good idea, but i doubt that the binding will like it too much if it is constantly used as a tele binding. Or should it easily withstand such a continued abuse?

The hinge on the 404 is decent but they dont tele very well as you will be on a very high tip-toe with the trailing ski. Makes steering the trailer very tricky and forces you to completely ski the outside ski perfectly or crash ..

i was also tending towards that, since that seemed to make sense anyways.

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The hinge on the 404 is decent but they dont tele very well as you will be on a very high tip-toe with the trailing ski. Makes steering the trailer very tricky and forces you to completely ski the outside ski perfectly or crash ..

heh

I dont tele very well too, so that sounds like a perfect match I tried it a few times with my fritschi freeride, and it worked surprisingly well (on rather low angle stuff though), so i guess the silvretta with the lower joint could even work a tad better. Still not sure about wether that will kill the binding on the long term or not.

i was also tending towards that, since that seemed to make sense anyways.

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The hinge on the 404 is decent but they dont tele very well as you will be on a very high tip-toe with the trailing ski. Makes steering the trailer very tricky and forces you to completely ski the outside ski perfectly or crash ..

heh

I dont tele very well too, so that sounds like a perfect match I tried it a few times with my fritschi freeride, and it worked surprisingly well (on rather low angle stuff though), so i guess the silvretta with the lower joint could even work a tad better. Still not sure about wether that will kill the binding on the long term or not.

qwert

I don't think those bindings aren't designed to tele. Good chance you'll break them due to the torque at the pivot. If you need to edge downhill I think it's best to have the heel locked.

It is readily available on the used market and makes an excellent approach binding for use with mountaineering boots (to prevent injury with such use we recommend not latching your heels down as softer climbing boots will not reliably actuate the safety release.)

Anyone an idea what they could mean with that?

I think they simply mean "don't latch the heel piece".

I just mounted 404's on heavy touring skis for mostly flat approaches to ice climbs. I don't expect to do any snazzy downhill turning, just basic survival snowplows/stems/step turns, as one does with lightweight 3 pin gear. So, to save a bit of weight, I didn't even mount the heel pieces on the skis. I figured I'd need a block of something to locate the rearmost part of the binding, to minimize side-to-side play (just like any other binding system for touring). Here's a couple pics of what I did. Haven't used it yet (notice the GRASS?) The blocks are cut from a hockey puck - tough durable, easy to cut/drill.

any interest in selling the heel pieces? I am working with Afghan and Tajik youth at the University of Central Asia in Khorog Tajikistan on mountaineering, skiing, etc.. and 2 pairs of silveretta 400 bindings with Mt. Hagan skis were just donated to us for our classes. However, one pair did not come with heel pieces.