I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age. Knowing this, and that demand for milk perpetuates the intense suffering of diary cattle, is it still ethical to consume diary products?

Whatever your views are regarding the subject, I urge you to watch this short video.

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Viewing from my iPad, all I can see are your typed post and just a blank page, no link.

With metta,Chris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Having lived on acreage and owned a house cow, i came to realise that there are also ethical issues concerning the fact that the cow needs to have multiple calves through the years to keep producing their food - milk. Most male calves are sent to the abattoirs, and female calves are taken away when in puberty, impregnated, and live the same life as their mother.

With metta,Chris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Ben wrote:I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age.

+1

I read that cows have a lifespan of about 30 years about cows that live in factory farms to produce milk only live about 5 years. They get burned out from the conditions and stress they live in and start producing much less milk. It isn't economically feasible to keep them alive after that so they get sent to slaughter.

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Soy milk can be healthy or unhealthy depending on a number of factors, so in your own individual cases please become an educated consumer in order to ensure you are getting fresh whole bean product, and not processed swill. Sometimes there is even added sugar.

I usually drink rice milk. I can't find a better alternative at present; finding a good variety of rice milk seems easier than finding good soy in my case, at any rate.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Cakes, chocolate bar, candy bars and various beverages have milk as part of their ingredients too.

How can we totally abstain from taking them?

By abstention. Pretend you're lactose intolerant, etc.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Ben wrote:I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age. Knowing this, and that demand for milk perpetuates the intense suffering of diary cattle, is it still ethical to consume diary products?

thanks for sharing that video. It always helps to watch videos like this to remind myself what to choose in daily life.

P.S.: Btw, humans 'are' the only mammals, whose offsprings use milk after growing up.One my consider a life without milk.

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as ‘concentration’, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps ‘unification’ is a better rendition, as samadhi means ‘to bring together’. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It’s a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience."

I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age

Yes, after working for a while as a dairy herdsman, I have been vegan ever since. And that was before most people had even heard the term! It can certainly be a harrowing experience to sparate a mother cow and newborn calf and take the calf to a different part of the farm - where it will be fattened up on potato starch until ready for slaughter.

You might be interested to know that there is, as well as blood, often quite a lot of mastitis pus in your milk, too...

I think, yes, it is ethical. Actually, I like meat and don't see any problem here. Calf meat is so delicious. The irony is I don't like milk and diary products

If you are worried about this practice I may suggest that you might think about it as only a temporary measure: very soon, perhaps in a few coming decades, science will allow us to produce an abundance of consumable proteins from inorganic substances and genetically modified mushrooms and microorganisms.

sphairos wrote:I think, yes, it is ethical. Actually, I like meat and don't see any problem here. Calf meat is so delicious. The irony is I don't like milk and diary products

If you are worried about this practice I may suggest that you might think about it as only a temporary measure: very soon, perhaps in a few coming decades, science will allow us to produce an abundance of consumable proteins from inorganic substances and genetically modified mushrooms and microorganisms.

sphairos wrote:I think, yes, it is ethical. Actually, I like meat and don't see any problem here. Calf meat is so delicious. The irony is I don't like milk and diary products

If you are worried about this practice I may suggest that you might think about it as only a temporary measure: very soon, perhaps in a few coming decades, science will allow us to produce an abundance of consumable proteins from inorganic substances and genetically modified mushrooms and microorganisms.

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as ‘concentration’, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps ‘unification’ is a better rendition, as samadhi means ‘to bring together’. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It’s a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience."

To my knowledge, milking cows/egg chickens typically have an even worse life than those that are simply bred for slaughter. The vast majority of milk cows develop some form of dementia from the torture they endure at the milking factories, and then once they can no longer produce milk are sent to the slaughter house. I've been Vegan for 7 years, so I may be biased, but I think that eating milk/egg products is unethical. That being said, I would never tell someone else they're unethical people for eating said animals products.

Read food labels. If the product contains diary, and in my case, any animal product or added sugar, I don't consume it.Instead of chocolate bars, sweets and cakes you might like to try dried and fresh fruit and nuts. For hot beverages I have black unsweetened coffee and tea, and green tea. For a cold beverage I have a non-sweetened, non-flavoured mineral water.kind regards,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725