Personally when it comes to harsh vocals, I've found that I'm happiest with the results when I stop trying to sound like other people and just allow my voice to develop naturally. It took some time before I was happy with them, but it definitely hurt a lot less than trying to force myself to sound like any particular idol of mine. Harsh vocals are supposed to be a primal style, so let loose. Of course you should still keep track of technique and warming up and what not to minimize damage.

Oh, then you pretty much have your adult voice developed I suppose (it varies from person to person after all), first thing you should do is get to know your range, where and what are you comfortable with, and then work in expanding it, slow and steady, without pushing it too hard, and knowing where your limits are, set a starting point, a base sound (whatever comes easiest and natural to you) and try different outputs and styles upon that.

Best thing anyone can do, is take heed of what Pfutner said: the only way to sound good is if you sound like yourself, develop your own sound and characteristics, then try to shape it, but most important, accept your own voice and learn to love it, because that's what you've got, trying to sound too much like someone else will probably end bad, either because you'll strain yourself or because you'll sound like a lame version of the original, whatever it is, it's not good.

Long story short, work with what you've got, don't waste time trying to sound like someone else.

I'm pretty good at black metal things, also good at old school grindcore vocals (think Repulsion/Carcass)...

I would like to, for whatever project I do next, have a good range of both higher grind/bm screams and lower death metal growls... I'd really like to have the bizarro range of the dude on Bethlehem's 2nd record and that one Anaal Nathrakh song...

I don't think that I could be a black metal vocalist myself loolz. Even if I did manage to get my high pitched harsh vocals in shape and proper I don't think I could pull it off!! People like Gaahl, Ihsahn or Trevor Strnad, I don't know how they do it lool

I don't think that I could be a black metal vocalist myself loolz. Even if I did manage to get my high pitched harsh vocals in shape and proper I don't think I could pull it off!! People like Gaahl, Ihsahn or Trevor Strnad, I don't know how they do it lool

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pmPosts: 302Location: United States of America

Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 pm

Someone please enlighten me...I'm starting to consider the possibility that black metal vocals do not actually exist. I've crawled the internet searching for tutorials (of which none of the hosts actually sound anything like say wolfchant, kromlek, kroda, whatever). I've never seen them done live (granted I've never seen any bands that heavily employ them). I've also never been able to replicate what people describe through text, despite discovering by accident numerous other types of vocals in my efforts.

Is the problem not in the human end but in the computer end? I've heard that reverb and distortion are applied in some (or all?) cases...how much of the cd result is coming from these effects?

You can find videos of people all over doing perfectly unaffected black metal croaks of all kinds. There's shit on youtube.

However, those aren't my preferred bm vocals. I like the more robust, loud, soaring, emotive stuff. It helps to have reverb and such on those, but once you know how to do these things, it's pretty easy to replicate what you want without any kind of modification. And check out the vocals on Burzum's Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, for example: Those are pretty unaffected, very honest, but they're some of my very favorite vocals out there.

Sadly, I probably can't tell you anymore than what you've already heard.

I will tell you this, though. It took a loooot of experimentation over like 2-3 years before I really knew what I was doing. I began attempting to sing along with Agalloch stuff, which I think was a good starting point. I was told I sounded like Gollum. But over time, I worked on figuring out how to add power, and then how to imitate the multitude of variations of bm vocals. So my suggestion, I guess, is to start with emulating something simple, quiet, and relatively easy. Then work on modifying it and adding power.

It's an old question though, and I've never heard of anyone successfully being instructed on how to do it. I wish I could share though.

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pmPosts: 302Location: United States of America

Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:13 pm

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I havn't been working at anything lower than maybe 7/10 of my full volume, it's worked fine for growls and gutterals and whatnot, but may be a valid problem for trying black metal technique. I think I'll try your way for a while and see what happens...quiet, simple, easy, Agalloch (actually I prefer Drudkh or Kroda, should be the same idea).

Is there a particular style of vocals that you ultimately hope to reproduce? If you could give me an example of a vocalist whose sound you especially like, maybe I (or we) could help more. In some cases, the techniques involved are pretty unique.

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pmPosts: 302Location: United States of America

Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:11 pm

I could give you a short list of bands...I'm not sure how much they vary in technique. I've kind of grouped them together in the way I think they fit.- Equilibrium, Kromlek- Heol Telwen, Stormlord- Thorondir, Thrudvangar, Wolfchant <--- I like this style most

Death metal vocals (exhales), low and gutteral in tone but fairly low in volume or higher in volume and less deep in tone. What are your thoughts on both techniques? Is using the first method and cranking the mike up cheating?

I hope to get back to the post about specific bm tone soon, but I've been busy.

About the previous loudness question, yeah, you have to strike balances. You can be pretty damn loud and still low and deep, or you can go yet lower until the tone becomes more of a grumble. Then you can amplify that. But, the thing is, the tone is very evident in the recording/performance, regardless of the volume. It's like hearing a low volume shout -- you can still tell it's a shout. If you want to sound aggressive, but just amplify something that has no balls behind it, it will not come out convincingly.

I can get both a low tone and high volume, but I think that's more related to the range of each person than anything else, I'm a bass, so it comes off naturally to me.The low volume plus sticking to the mic and cranking it up always sounded crappy and obvious to me, it's better to focus on getting better in whatever your comfortable range is and maybe leave the lows and that for small parts or backing your regular voice.

when it comes to dm vocals I can practically do anything to a decent quality. I can do the low Mike Majewski growl, the mid-range gruff Benton shout/growl and the monstrous Ross Dolan rumbling. I usually use the Benton style vocals when I sing, but I think that it all really depends on what is more comfortable for you yourself.

Good! Glad to hear it. Once the basics click, all it takes is time/experimenting/practice and you can gradually expand the sorts of things you can do. So it's good to know you're on track. I get bummed out when people can just never get it.

I've noticed a lot of my singing style comes from imitation. Currently trying some Geoff Tate/Midnight-ish vocals and trying to get that feminine, very light kind of sound. Goes well I think...though I probably shouldn't be trying this since my voice hurts since yesterday. Singing is so addictive. Even on a bad day such as this I still hit high notes which really isn't smart. Ah well.

Death metal vocals (exhales), low and gutteral in tone but fairly low in volume or higher in volume and less deep in tone. What are your thoughts on both techniques? Is using the first method and cranking the mike up cheating?

My band just recorded its first song, kinda shakey since its our first recording so when we go back in to record the full demo we will have a better idea of what to do. All my deep growls are quieter, and live it comes across fine, i just have to be really close to the mic. I prefer having deeper with lower volume. Its not really quiet, its fairly loud but not nearly as loud as higher growls...

I've been restraining myself a bit last few days. During my singing lesson my voice wasn't in a great shape so I decide to take it all easy. I'd like to cover Crimson Glory's ''Valhalla'' this week though. Maybe not the entire song, but atleast the first few verses should be able to go well if my voice is alright.

I was wondering where you guys practice your growls/shrieks/shouts/screams/gutturals what have you. I tend to do it when I'm driving as I am pretty loud and noisy, but that doesn't give me a lot of time. I can't do it in my apartment because my neighbors will certainly think that I am torturing someone/myself.

I was wondering where you guys practice your growls/shrieks/shouts/screams/gutturals what have you. I tend to do it when I'm driving as I am pretty loud and noisy, but that doesn't give me a lot of time. I can't do it in my apartment because my neighbors will certainly think that I am torturing someone/myself.

At night in the nearby nature conservation area, at the band's rehearsal space. It's also a problem for me, I don't get nearly enough practice to develop as a vocalist.

At night in the nearby nature conservation area, at the band's rehearsal space. It's also a problem for me, I don't get nearly enough practice to develop as a vocalist.

Sounds like some of the residents in your area might believe in the Sasquatch.

garthmargengi wrote:

Never really, I only growl when we're recording.

This just can't work. No offense, it's just that by the time you record you need your vocal chords well trained. I even get put off at practice if I'm really off key or if my voice starts to fade away too quickly. These things can only be prevented if you keep maintaining your voice.

Necroticism174 wrote:

I practice every kind of vocal in the shower. Generally when no one else is home. Also sometimes if I'm at a desolated bus stop at night. Or one that I think is desolated, fun times.

Ahahaha, I've done this. Not only does it piss my neighbours off but my girlfriend as well. She's almost always there when I am. Doubt anyone would go see what the commotion at that bus stop is.

So it's safe to say we are fucked for now, until someone creates a comfortable sound proof helmet that is.

This just can't work. No offense, it's just that by the time you record you need your vocal chords well trained. I even get put off at practice if I'm really off key or if my voice starts to fade away too quickly. These things can only be prevented if you keep maintaining your voice.

there's something to be said for the value of vocal primality and spontaneity in certain kinds of extreme metal, many of my favorite albums have vocalists with pointedly untrained and unpracticed vocals. to cite an example most people here could relate to would be be Hvis Lyset Tar Oss or any of those albums.

i think what might be more relevant though is that when you "find" or figure out your voice, and practice it enough to the point where your technique is pretty much muscle memory, you can revisit it on command. i don't find any need for regular practice. to be fair i played in bands where we practiced every week and i was growling on a very regular basis, but after taking literally 2 years off it took me like an hour to find my voice for recording again, and my voice was actually tighter probably because it had healed somewhat from the regular abuse i put it through. maybe you need that formative experience of being able to practice your voice every week until it can called on command years later, like being in a live band or doing it in the shower, but once you have it figured you don't need constant practice. of course this is all subjective, im sure there are styles of vocals that are much harder on the voice than others, some that can only be executed by a voice that is "in practice", but that definitely isn't true for some of the most common kinds of growls.

If you aspire for merely passable, you don't need to practice regularly - if Varg's vocals are better than Dan Greening's according to your standards, go ahead and practice as little as possible. If you want a powerful scream or growl with as little vocal damage as possible, practice as much as you can.

As sourlows said, I pretty much have figured out my own voice (growl-wise), how it works and how to get it sounding the way I want, and since I don't feel there's much improvement to be done on it (of course there always is, I just don't care to get better at it) I don't practice at all and only get back to it when it's needed. You can check out the link on my signature to see if it works or not, I don't want to sound pedantic, but I am very confident with my own sound after all and think it's good, otherwise I wouldn't be recording myself.

On the other hand, I do practice -it's what I intend to make a career of- my clean vocals quite often, since I'm training to be a lyrical singer.

Long story short, I need to learn how to do really fucking pissed off power violence/grind highs. Bands I have in mind are Discordance Axis, Leper, you get the picture. Can anyone help me out? I haven't scanned youtube or any other sources YET, but I wanted to drop a line through here because this thread/forum/site rules.

_________________

Sadr_mordvig wrote:

or you heil to your fucking hitler and bang into your fucking pots with your fucking nazi dick (and tape it actually)

Practiced Dream Theater's ''pull Me Under'' yesterday with my vocal coach. I can finally reach the watch the sparrow falling part easier and add some power to it, too. Might record some shit this or next week.