I've read this forum for years, I read the Tap Room and ATI and OBR Football. I see your posts all the time and still enjoy your smarts and wit. But if you think I'm stalking you, you flatter yourself.

And I dig you taking the high road, just bring a GPS because its' prolly uncharted territory for ya.

You quipped, I quipped back. If I need a membership card to post here, let me know and I'll fill out an application.

GF, Bros don't let JB get under your skin. Get thicker skin. JB is an arrogant condescending f%^^cking genius. Often time I have to look shit up when he goes off on a tirade. He knows his shit and is funny as Hell. Don't take nothing personal here man.

Its all good. We are on the same team. Sure we have no kicker, Guards, best receiver chuggin dank, QB on stilts with tunnel vision, only one Corner and a Safety which woulda been good in the 60"s....but it's entertainment.

pod2dawg wrote:GF, Bros don't let JB get under your skin. Get thicker skin. JB is an arrogant condescending f%^^cking genius. Often time I have to look shit up when he goes off on a tirade. He knows his shit and is funny as Hell. Don't take nothing personal here man.

Its all good. We are on the same team. Sure we have no kicker, Guards, best receiver chuggin dank, QB on stilts with tunnel vision, only one Corner and a Safety which woulda been good in the 60"s....but it's entertainment.

Hang in there stir the pot.

Appreciate the advice, but you're preaching at the choir. JB and I go way back. I don't need google to understand his posts, just a rap discogrpahy. Not melting, more like amused by it all.

BOTTOM LINE Despite being overshadowed by teammate Knile Davis for a large portion of his career, Johnson made a name for himself whenever he was given the opportunity to fill-in as the starter before eventually overtaking Davis at the top. Despite having a bit of a bowling-ball look to his game, Johnsons burst and strength as a ball carrier not only helps him get tough yards as a runner (averaged 5.9 yards per carry in his career) but also break off chunks of real estate as a returner and receiver, which means he could prove to be a valuable mid-round pick as a regular contributor on offense and special teams. He may be the best third down back in college football.

BOTTOM LINE Despite being overshadowed by teammate Knile Davis for a large portion of his career, Johnson made a name for himself whenever he was given the opportunity to fill-in as the starter before eventually overtaking Davis at the top. Despite having a bit of a bowling-ball look to his game, Johnsons burst and strength as a ball carrier not only helps him get tough yards as a runner (averaged 5.9 yards per carry in his career) but also break off chunks of real estate as a returner and receiver, which means he could prove to be a valuable mid-round pick as a regular contributor on offense and special teams. He may be the best third down back in college football.

This is goin waaaaay back butt Lombardi & BB did the same thing for the first couple years in Lombardi V 1.0. I can't recall how many times cedric Figero was signed, cut, signed, cut.

I don't think we just released Cris Carter or jas Harrison. But my takeaway is anyone who bought into Slick Jimmuh's "we're gonna win now" raps is about to get a really loud alarm clock in 3...2...1.

The Browns are wafer thin and have already absorbed injuries. There is no depth. Jacskon was slow, but he knew the blitz pick ups and the hot routes. Fort knew where he was supposed to be on punt coverage. davis had stone hands but he'd played in many real NFL games. In the stead of these vets come what, 17 1st or 2nd year UDFA's with no clue about systems and schemes from OTAs or a TC here. Now we're in season. All reps are for game planning and scout team work. Injuries are inevitable in the NFL. It is only a matter of time until some depth players see live bullets. Odds are pretty likely these guys are going to be what they are: UDFA's with no experience and limited knowledge of the schemes and their assignments.

Now maybe Lombardi hits on a few in this revolving door. Great. But as far as on the fgield in 2013? Odds are good one of these chumps is going to blow a game, or worse, get a QB or TRich killed, when they see action inevitably.

If one can read this, this is a statement about where thsi team is and a willingness to flush 2013.

Personally, I could give a fuck less about flushing Brandon Jackson. If Hardesty & Lewis are healthy, he doesn't make the team anyway. Sure it was a surprise, but he's hardly a loss, and replacing him with some undrafted guy that has more potential is actually a good move (in the long run, of course, your #2 and #3 RB's have had the playbook for a week, so that first game might be kind of ugly with them understanding blocking assignments, etc.)

My beef with them is and has been that despite having a cap surplus they haven't even attempted to adequately address 2nd CB, 2nd S, 2nd TE, 2nd G, FB, P, & K. There's no way a team that is vying for the playoffs enters a season with such a shitload of project/developmental types at such key positions.

Oh, and their draft was incredibly underwhelming and clearly set up to benefit the team in the future.

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I like it. Even if there were some surprises, I like it.

Lombardi and Banner are clearly committed to improving the bottom of the roster, with the upside of potentially unearthing a diamond from the rough.

JB outlined the downside, but I'm with the Browns' thinking in my cost/benefit analysis.

But yea, it'd be a shame if Richardson missed any time this year ;)

My main concern is I think with the taint of stink not on this bunch they should have sold the farm to win now.

You can't place yet another regieme behind the 8 ball of rebuilding slowly. The few decent vets are going to turtle if there is a slow start and you won't get a bead on whathever talent may be there anyway because it won't develop.

Ortodoxy will only bring more of the same. They needed to change culture and you only get one chance. They are wasting it.

IDK BJ helps you do that, although in his last year with GB he's YPC was higher than TRich - just sayin' - but I know having UDFA rooks on the 2 deep and 17 on the roster while the team is waffer thin and already sustaining mid-season injuries won't.

The fan melt is always directly tied to expectations. This year is gonna be bad.

My main concern is I think with the taint of stink not on this bunch they should have sold the farm to win now.

You can't place yet another regieme behind the 8 ball of rebuilding slowly. The few decent vets are going to turtle if there is a slow start and you won't get a bead on whathever talent may be there anyway because it won't develop.

Maybe I'm not following, but are you talking about the cuts to 53 or the offseason that didnt net many solid vets?

Ortodoxy will only bring more of the same. They needed to change culture and you only get one chance. They are wasting it.

IDK BJ helps you do that, although in his last year with GB he's YPC was higher than TRich - just sayin' - but I know having UDFA rooks on the 2 deep and 17 on the roster while the team is waffer thin and already sustaining mid-season injuries won't.

I think you are talking about two different things. (1) Vet leadership and (2) talent. Not sure about #1 but Jackson doesn't have #2.

Rooks will give you bonehead plays, I agree, but I'll roll with some early season mistakes if the upside is actually netting a playa from the heap. You and I value different things.

My main concern is I think with the taint of stink not on this bunch they should have sold the farm to win now.

You can't place yet another regieme behind the 8 ball of rebuilding slowly. The few decent vets are going to turtle if there is a slow start and you won't get a bead on whathever talent may be there anyway because it won't develop.

Maybe I'm not following, but are you talking about the cuts to 53 or the offseason that didnt net many solid vets?

Ortodoxy will only bring more of the same. They needed to change culture and you only get one chance. They are wasting it.

IDK BJ helps you do that, although in his last year with GB he's YPC was higher than TRich - just sayin' - but I know having UDFA rooks on the 2 deep and 17 on the roster while the team is waffer thin and already sustaining mid-season injuries won't.

I think you are talking about two different things. (1) Vet leadership and (2) talent. Not sure about #1 but Jackson doesn't have #2.

Rooks will give you bonehead plays, I agree, but I'll roll with some early season mistakes if the upside is actually netting a playa from the heap. You and I value different things.

Signing Willie Mc Ginnest is a waste.

Backing the Brinks truck up to the driveway of Courtland Finnegan like Corey Fuller until he cant say "no" (like Krueger) isn't.

The one common mistake I've seen the Re-boot FO's ALL make starting with Butch 2.0, Phil, mangini and H&H is that they all have years to change the culture and winning comes down the road after player development. Then by year 2 they are all hosed.

They needed to jump start. They blinked. But this time the fan base really bought into Jimmuh, Banner, Chud, the coordinators..... Joe Fan is gonna scream this time rather than be apathetic. The melt and butt hurt will be huge if they don't win in 2013. This board is different JMJ. It's jaded and negative. It ain't like that out there with the other fans.

They all think they can weather the storm. None actually do. The taint of stink gets attached and like to BO in Seinfeld's car there's nothing they can do.

Boy, I'd love to have Finnegan on this team. He embodies everything you want in a defensive player - speed, smarts, swag, and that nasty streak.

I get you now. I think Banner and Lombardi can be criticized for not doing more in FA. I would have liked another CB and another WR. Then again, it's not like they did nothing...

So what if the fans melt? You mean the stadium won't be full at kick-off? :) I don't understand why it matters what the fans think...if they win 6 games this year and jump to 9 or 10 next, all the hand wringing and teeth gnashing will be forgotten. As far as the team's culture? That can't be manufactured by murals in Berea or even off-season moves that bring in high profile players (remember 08 with Shawn Rodgers and Cory Williams). Flirt with or make the playoffs next year? There's your culture shift.

Winning cures all -- Banner and Lombardi have a plan to get there. Jury out, Proof in pudding, and all that stuff.

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Boy, I'd love to have Finnegan on this team. He embodies everything you want in a defensive player - speed, smarts, swag, and that nasty streak.

I get you now. I think Banner and Lombardi can be criticized for not doing more in FA. I would have liked another CB and another WR. Then again, it's not like they did nothing...

So what if the fans melt? You mean the stadium won't be full at kick-off? :) I don't understand why it matters what the fans think...if they win 6 games this year and jump to 9 or 10 next, all the hand wringing and teeth gnashing will be forgotten. As far as the team's culture? That can't be manufactured by murals in Berea or even off-season moves that bring in high profile players (remember 08 with Shawn Rodgers and Cory Williams). Flirt with or make the playoffs next year? There's your culture shift.

Winning cures all -- Banner and Lombardi have a plan to get there. Jury out, Proof in pudding, and all that stuff.

You are correct that if Banner & Co build it, the fans will come.

Might take a little while for them to buy in, as with the Tribe, but they'll eventually come back.

Now whether or not you have any faith that Banner & Co are remotely capable of achieving that is up to the individual.

PS to JB - not sure as many people "bought in" to the whole Jimmy/Joey/Mikey/Chud league of justice as you think. I personally thought they sucked from the beginning and expect nothing but more of the same from them, so the anger and burning that you expect might be replaced with mass yawning and sighing.

Q: I've heard talk about a 3-5-year program, but Browns fans are sick of more long-term pledges. So what should people know about what you're doing here, and how soon should they expect to have a winning franchise?

Banner: "I think it's going to be obvious so that once we get playing, they won't need to ask the question. I think they'll see improvement immediately, though nobody realistically thinks we're ready to win a Super Bowl. And, at the risk of crossing the line, there have been a lot of people here over a lot of years who talked about long-term plans, but I haven't seen anybody who actually implemented that. They've been filling needs year by year, sometimes with expensive players who aren't that good. Everybody talked about a long-term plan, but when's the last time the team traded for a future draft pick? When's the last time the team said, 'We may not have position 'X' with the best player this year because there's nobody in the marketplace who's that good, and we don't want to waste all the future cap money just so we win six games instead of five?' So there's been a lot of cheap talk about long-term plans here, and I'm not talking last year. You go back 15 years through different administrations. They all have basically been trying to win now."

Q: So, then, are you asking fans to be patient?

Banner: "No. We are not asking for a free pass this year or any year. They should expect the team to be better. They should expect the team to play hard. They should expect it to be obvious that things are different. I'm happy being held to that standard, and I'm happy having everybody held to that standard. Listen, we were one of the most active teams in free agency this year in the league. That's not a long-term three-to-five-year plan. Now we did it with players who were 26-and-27-years old, so in two or three years when we're hoping to be really good they're still going to be good players. We didn't do it with 31-or-32-year-old players who, when we begin to get good, are going to be gone. For me, it's where are you in the continuum? If you're in the relatively early stages of building a Super Bowl-caliber team it doesn't make much sense to invest in 31-and-32-year-old players. We're going to have a three-to-five-year plan that doesn't mean you have to go back to winning two games to build it. We're going to do things so that, as the team really gets good two to three years from now, we're adding to the nucleus."

Q: I've heard talk about a 3-5-year program, but Browns fans are sick of more long-term pledges. So what should people know about what you're doing here, and how soon should they expect to have a winning franchise?

Banner: "I think it's going to be obvious so that once we get playing, they won't need to ask the question. I think they'll see improvement immediately, though nobody realistically thinks we're ready to win a Super Bowl. And, at the risk of crossing the line, there have been a lot of people here over a lot of years who talked about long-term plans, but I haven't seen anybody who actually implemented that. They've been filling needs year by year, sometimes with expensive players who aren't that good. Everybody talked about a long-term plan, but when's the last time the team traded for a future draft pick? When's the last time the team said, 'We may not have position 'X' with the best player this year because there's nobody in the marketplace who's that good, and we don't want to waste all the future cap money just so we win six games instead of five?' So there's been a lot of cheap talk about long-term plans here, and I'm not talking last year. You go back 15 years through different administrations. They all have basically been trying to win now."

Q: So, then, are you asking fans to be patient?

Banner: "No. We are not asking for a free pass this year or any year. They should expect the team to be better. They should expect the team to play hard. They should expect it to be obvious that things are different. I'm happy being held to that standard, and I'm happy having everybody held to that standard. Listen, we were one of the most active teams in free agency this year in the league. That's not a long-term three-to-five-year plan. Now we did it with players who were 26-and-27-years old, so in two or three years when we're hoping to be really good they're still going to be good players. We didn't do it with 31-or-32-year-old players who, when we begin to get good, are going to be gone. For me, it's where are you in the continuum? If you're in the relatively early stages of building a Super Bowl-caliber team it doesn't make much sense to invest in 31-and-32-year-old players. We're going to have a three-to-five-year plan that doesn't mean you have to go back to winning two games to build it. We're going to do things so that, as the team really gets good two to three years from now, we're adding to the nucleus."

motherscratcher wrote:Wait, so if I'm to understand this correctly, what I've been watching for the last 15 years has been a "win now" approach to team building?

Shudders.

Right on.

BS.

Not sure what is BS in there. Isn't that exactly what each regime has done? Didn't everyone freak when Mangini filled the roster with vets that knew his way?

Wasting breath and all. Everyone thinks what they want to think. At least now we have an organization where the players aren't all first time doing their gig. Everything they have said they would do, they have done.

If Weeden is half as good as you were spewing on about 3 weeks ago, they will win 8 games. And set themselves up to improve on that going forward.

It's on his shoulders and his shoulders alone. If he's not able to at least, he's done.

I don't think this is a BAD football team. It's just one (potentially) lacking the most important position in pro football. A good to great QB can mask a terrible secondary, bad guards or a whole number of problems on the team.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Really, other than Gordon, our WR's suuuuuuuuuuuuuck 'cept for maybe Bess -- we'll see. I have hope for him. Little? Bust. can't get open and can't catch. Benji? One trick pony -- if he give enough of a shit to make a play when ball in in the air. . Hatin' on Weedon; knob-gobbling on weedon; neither matters nothin. All is neutral.

You put a cog type QB in that and cast matters. What would say, dalton, look like with those guys instead of his WR'TE's?

They cut FA's they signed like 3 months ago themselves. Not a great statement.

You have zero idea if they added filler or prospects. They dumped experience for UDFAs. Hope that works out for us long term becasue short term it doesn't.

I believe the coaching staff will be better on O. IDK about D. See also the Browns D vs the cards D last year, incl sacks. I need to see Big Bow Wow > Jauron. I need to see Chud coach one game as HC. Doubt he's worse than SHUR! but IDK if he's better.

Heckert:

Built for the long term via the draft even if he was aggressive in what he considered good drafts.

Sign very few FA's and leave a crapload of cap space.

Lombardi:

Built for the long term via the draft even if he was aggressive in what he considered good drafts.

Sign very few FA's and leave a crapload of cap space.

Really, zero different in approach.

All yah got is faith new guys are so much smarter than the old guys. Hope that work out for us.

Really, other than Gordon, our WR's suuuuuuuuuuuuuck 'cept for maybe Bess -- we'll see. I have hope for him. Little? Bust. can't get open and can't catch. Benji? One trick pony -- if he give enough of a shit to make a play when ball in in the air. . Hatin' on Weedon; knob-gobbling on weedon; neither matters nothin. All is neutral.

You put a cog type QB in that and cast matters. What would say, dalton, look like with those guys instead of his WR'TE's?

See what I'm sayin? Thoughts?

I'm not trying to be combative.

All I'm saying is that we'll be able to see if Weeden has improved or has a chance to be the guy here for any length of time regardless of what he's got around him. If he's making the right reads and getting in and out of sets/audibles/etc we'll see that.

I want to see him exert some form of leadership. I WANT to see a couple drops and see how he handles it. I want to see an OL miss an assignment and see how he handles it. We'll be able to see that regardless of whether(and more so IF) Little rounds off a route that results in an INT. Hopefully we'll see throws that only Cameron can catch regardless of whether he actually does or not.

Great QB's make everyone on the team better to the point of being able to take a pack of Littles, Benjamins, Besses, and Coopers and win with them. There aren't many of those.

Middle of the pack QB's (the Daltons and Schaubs and, oh, a shit ton of other guys, lots of them first round picks) need really good talent around them to be effective. They don't win consistently with Littles, Benjamins, Besses, and Coopers.

Weeden isn't even middle of the pack yet, so handing him that deck of cards isn't conducive to anything except shitting the bed for Ted. Unless Richardson is transcendent, something I'll need to see to believe.