Jenise wrote:Bob, what's your sugar tolerance? Every bottle of this I've tasted has been more than "a little sweet", but then my sugar intake is pretty close to zero. I don't even drink soda pop.

Never thought of it that way--can one judge their wine tastes, meaning sugar tolerance, according to how much sugar they have in their food diet? For someone that does drink a lot of soda or eat a lot of "junk food," it would be safe to assume they will enjoy the sweeter wines like YT? And, of course, vice versa??

Jenise wrote:Bob, what's your sugar tolerance? Every bottle of this I've tasted has been more than "a little sweet", but then my sugar intake is pretty close to zero. I don't even drink soda pop.

Never thought of it that way--can one judge their wine tastes, meaning sugar tolerance, according to how much sugar they have in their food diet? For someone that does drink a lot of soda or eat a lot of "junk food," it would be safe to assume they will enjoy the sweeter wines like YT? And, of course, vice versa??

Yes, from years of sharing wines with people of all stripes, absolutely. The more sugar you consume, the higher your tolerance for (and possibly, craving for) sweetness. People who likewise consume a lot of salt (the junk food you mention) also seem to need a higher, compensatory quantity of sugar to make foods taste balanced. Smokers seem to need lots of both.

But, once in a great while, I love the taste of "natural" sugars -- peaches and pears and grapes, for example, carrots with a touch of maple syrup, etc.

The sweetness in the YT Shiraz and Shiraz/Cab blends tastes "natural" to me, the same sweetness I get in a ripe Concord or black grape. And, of course, I don't drink YT all that often, perhaps once a month or so. Never at home -- where we have plenty of dry wines on offer.

Thinking about your question, I realized that Janet likes sweet wines much more than I do -- she loves the sweet Donnhoff's, whereas I would personally pick the drier versions. And sweeties generally are fine, but I find them cloying fairly quickly.

I'm not sure I'd care for the YT chardonnay, though -- the oak and sweetness -- both too over-whelming in the couple of samples I've tasted.

You are all being far too PC perhaps at the risk of sounding elitist or snobby. Yellow Tail is among the most vile and evil 'beverages' ever conceived in a board room. It is devoid of everything that makes wine special (artesian craftsmanship, sense of place, vintage variation, ability to evoke emotion and happiness, rarity, nature, and love), and strips it all down to a knuckle-dragging, lowest common denominator, mass-produced, widget with which to 'get your drunk on'. Isn't the world big enough for all types of wine regardless of production technique? Not MY world, brother! Just another sign of the end I guess. Time to grab a bottle of TBA, find a mountain, climb to the top, kick the f-ing ladder over and watch it all burn (or be flooded in commodity-wine more likely).

Please Bob, never mention Donnhoff and YT in the same sentence. Donnhoff is balanced with acid, the YT is just sweet with no social redeeming value. I'm sorry to sound like a snob but I would rather drink ice tea or something like that then to drink YT. IMHO it's on the same level as "bad white Zin".

Hoke, what's your view on my impression that it's relatively easy to avoid bottle variation when a winemaker is making thousands of cases of a wine to the same standard?

Yellow Tail is the only "industrial produced" wine I've enjoyed, and part of its charm is its predictability, bottle to bottle.

Technically, Bob, you're correct in your view. A good laboratory technician, given the right 'raw ingredients', and assuming that those raw ingredients are not tremendously flawed, should be able to impose a standard production style. It's done all the time.

The difference is, of course, that it's not done in the vineyards, but in the lab, with finished wines.

But the people that buy Yellow Tail aren't buying it for the same reason that, say Bill Hooper and Lou Kessler are buying their wines. People that buy Yellow Tail are looking for a pleasant wine beverage that doesn't cost very much money. Those people want predictable standard format wines. It's the reason that you expressed for buying it, Bob: it's predictable, consistent, reliable, and within your (lower) threshold of wine.

And that's fine by me. Hey, I make a goodly part of my living off that type of wine. Apparently, that makes me the Antichrist of Wine. Shucks, it's a burden I'll have to carry.

Hoke you carry your burden so well. You're my idea of the only living martyr in in the kingdom of wine. How noble!!!!! I still have a problem with Donnhoff and YT in the same sentence. Now that I think of it our store grosses a hell of a lot more money from YT then all the German wines combined. Ooh, now that I've said that I realize I'm a martyr too. Where's my hair shirt that says "Drink what Lou likes"

I am really enjoying this discussion!! I always laugh at the Grill when I see 3 more cases of YT being delivered. Heck, it outsells Cono Sur, Woodbridge, et al.
Waiters grin as another bottle of YT is opened at the table, and the supervisors wonder when someone is finally gonna ask for the wine to be decanted. It will happen forumites, heck one waitress was asked for the Piesporter to be decanted!
Anyhows I am joining in the fun, lets look at the YT Riesling in the next couple of days. AB wants to learn how to write a TN and I am offering some assistance...I will be kind!

Bob Parsons Alberta. wrote:AB wants to learn how to write a TN and I am offering some assistance

Yes, but more so than anything else I would love to know why the YT is so horrible; I've read all these excu--er, reasons, but I would love to taste why it is so horrible. I guess the TN part is just so I can put into words why I dislike the YT, because I really feel like I won't care for it too much. If it resembles a local Riesling I just got here in NM, then I will not be enjoying it. . . .

Jenise wrote:Yes, from years of sharing wines with people of all stripes, absolutely. The more sugar you consume, the higher your tolerance for (and possibly, craving for) sweetness. People who likewise consume a lot of salt (the junk food you mention) also seem to need a higher, compensatory quantity of sugar to make foods taste balanced. Smokers seem to need lots of both.

Interesting perspective, Jenise. I have a dangerous sweet tooth (dangerous in that it is at least half the reason, if not 3/4, for my being significantly fat, despite somewhat active lifestyle otherwise), yet I don't like sweet red wines at all, usually. (Whites, though, I can enjoy with high fruit/residual sugar, like riesling)

Randy R wrote:YT was and remains a brilliant marketing success and that alone usually gets on geeks' nerves whether it's wine geeks or audio or computer geeks.

Agreed. I feel the same way about Tim Horton's coffee - it's terrible stuff as coffee goes, really, but nobody can doubt the immense marketing success that it is in Canada. I recently spent my vacation in northern Ontario and while on the road, Tim Horton's was the most frequent game in town - still, I didn't bite. I finally just ended up buying a Melitta cone filter and some ground coffee to keep in the trunk ...

I have had Yellow Tail Shiraz in the past and agree that it is sweet (much too much so for my taste), though it wasn't bad in any way. Much like Gallo of Sonoma - which I used to get occasionally because I thought their Cab wasn't all that bad.

Personally, I'd rather drink a lousy local wine (say, from New Mexico) from a local winemaker trying to make a go of it than drink a lousy international wine that sells in the millions of cases from some huge corporation. Actually, I drink a lot of lousy local wines that aren't even in my locale! I like supporting small winemakers and I regularly enjoy wine from Colorado, Idaho, Virginia, upstate NY etc. However, you live near one of the truly good ones, Gruet sparkling wine from NM. Well, I'm not actually sure how small they are, but they're good. Give it a try sometime.

That's a good philosophy, Matt. I believe in what you're saying about supporting local businesses; see, I'm not expecting to actually like the YT
--I just want to know FIRSTHAND why it's so lousy rather than take people's "word" for it (which is seeming more and more reliable). Regardless, I want to know for myself. It could be the last bottle of YT I ever have, who knows. . . .

P.S. - I did give a local riesling (I'm not a sparkling fan, as in Gruet) a whirl the other day, and it was bad; I'm actually really curious how it could get much worse than what I had from NM

Just to remind everyone that the purpose of the upcoming tasting exercise is for AB to feel confident in acquiring some tasting skills as well as being able to write a TN. Myself, I am eager to see if this riesling is any good!!!! LOL.

Jenise:
I'm not sure where I fit into your sweetness profile. I am an avowed sweet lover(candy, cookies, pie,cake,etc.) I also drink my share of Diet Coke. Having said that, I have absolutely zero tolerance for sweetness in wine or any other adult beverage. My preference in wine tends toward big, Cali-style Cabs and Bordeaux style blends. (And, I'm ashamed to admit, I'm also a smoker) Go figure. Guess I'm something of a paradox.