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"7' tall people shouldn't clean from the floor ... plates are standard size, bar only 9" off the floor
I'd agree with this in case of a 7' basket baller.
But you could just go from the blocks, instead of hang.
Hangs are fine tho.

"(old) people who can't put arms over their head".
Yep, probably a waste of time to teach general population middle aged people classic lifts.
There just need to OHP well first; then if they can OHS; then we can talk about learning classic lifts.
But why?
Who is gonna teach them? Mike Boyle? no thank you.

Most average-joe-lifter-sport-field-court-athlete clean-pull (pull only) and snatch pull (only) look like total dog shit.
...so yes, he kinda has a point there. Those should be easier to teach the the full lift, or a hang with the turnover/catch. But I digress: who is gonna teach these lifts? Boyle and his flunkies?

If I were a S&C Coach, I would probably shy away from wasting time teaching the classic lifts to an school athlete.
(most of "those people" are going to be long limbed BTW ; good luck with that)

If I were a general rando personal trainer dude .... ditto for old gen pop.

The knee-over-toes squats thing and the single leg variant stuff? .... yeah, he probably can't teach the squat either so....

Like most school-trained imbeciles, if HE cant do it, or if he cant train it, its 'something you shouldn't be doing'. Just like the armies ov fresh PT's i see every day, 'squats hurt the knees', 'deadlifts hurt the back', 'bench hurts the shoulders'... The people who teach THEM cant teach, or train, so they just say 'Yeah, if you cant coach it, malign it.'

I'm pretty black and white as a coach. If i see a lifter that cant rack a barbell, do a proper OH press, or a proper squat, then i point out the mobility issues. EVERY HUMAN BEING... should be able to do these. If you cant? You have problems. If you cant be assed to sort out your problems on a truly basic level, i want no part ov you anyways. That kind ov fear or laziness is going to waste my time down the road anyways.

Question: If you lack the athleticism to perform the lifts properly, how are you going to be a great athlete in other sports?

Its easy! I cant rack a powerclean, or do powercleans without getting a bicep pump, but i'm gonna be a baseball star...

Personally, i love weightlifting for that. It immediately makes clear where you need work. There is NO getting around it. For me as a coach, the value is in the test. If someone wont bother doing the mobility work just to be able to DO the work, then you know right off the bat not to invest any time in them. Its become binary for me.

I think the problem he and many other S&C coaches run into is they never dedicated any time to learning weightlifting as a sport. I had a discussion about this with a member I coach in CrossFit last week. He was talking about why don’t S&C coaches use muscle or tall variations, or even can coach the lifts competently. He pointed out I had a room of 20 CrossFitters of all ages and ability doing cleans with adequate or even great competency. I’ve probably coached hundreds of members since I started working to do the lifts with competency over a few workouts.

I said I think it is because S&C coaches treat the power and squat variations, even pulls, as the only progressions and what to teach first. This member was a swimmer so I brought up that he definitely did not learn freestyle and breaststroke the first few days in the water. It was floating and treading water first, followed by progressive drills and steps to more advanced and competitive stroke styles. The same applies to the Olympic lifts. I don’t think I’ve seen S&C coaches (unless they are/were lifters) go through muscle variations, push press + squat, snatch balance, tall variations, and so on in the training plan to teach athletes proper progressions for the lifts. Muscle and tall variants are great to start because they would focus on the two most important things in Olympic lifting: vertical force production and change of direction respectively. You can easily superset the two, and in time once competency is built then progress to hang and power lifts.

I don’t think I’ve seen S&C coaches (unless they are/were lifters) go through muscle variations, push press + squat, snatch balance, tall variations, and so on in the training plan to teach athletes proper progressions for the lifts. Muscle and tall variants are great to start because they would focus on the two most important things in Olympic lifting: vertical force production and change of direction respectively. You can easily superset the two, and in time once competency is built then progress to hang and power lifts.

As a later-in-life lifter and an S&C internet commentator, my opinion has become that the largest general-S&C benefit of the Olympic lifts is that these lifts can train progressively -- can be progressively loaded -- both an athlete's ability to deploy power and his/her ability to efficiently absorb force. Vertical force production and change in direction and are a part of those, but there are easier ways to train/progressively-load the former and a non-WL S&C person (not that they are necessarily correct) is always going to resist the vertical-plane change of direction stress of the lifts "because change in direction on the field of play rarely happens only on that plane".

As far as stuff that Mike Boyle says or writes, I ran into videos with that guy quite a few years ago (the "split squats/lunges not squats" thing, his babbling to some HS S&C folks about the 'teaching' of the hang power clean, and some piece on Ndamukong Suh doing power shrugs followed by box jumps). It was from the latter two, amongst other definitely-not-crossfit stuff on the internet, that I drew the conclusion that learning the Olympic lifts (or some variation of them) might be good for trying to develop (re-develop?) my athleticism as an older person. If I could draw that conclusion in ~2015 (not as much WL content as currently), then I'm pretty sure that many will draw that conclusion now. . . regardless of what Mr. Boyle says. It is hard to understand why certain S&C guys go beyond ignoring the Olympic lifts and actually move to disparage them; if you don't know them and you don't want to take the time to teach your athletes how to do them (or if you just can't control your athletes), then just admit it and move along.

As a later-in-life lifter and an S&C internet commentator, my opinion has become that the largest general-S&C benefit of the Olympic lifts is that these lifts can train progressively -- can be progressively loaded -- both an athlete's ability to deploy power and his/her ability to efficiently absorb force. Vertical force production and change in direction and are a part of those, but there are easier ways to train/progressively-load the former and a non-WL S&C person (not that they are necessarily correct) is always going to resist the vertical-plane change of direction stress of the lifts "because change in direction on the field of play rarely happens only on that plane".

As far as stuff that Mike Boyle says or writes, I ran into videos with that guy quite a few years ago (the "split squats/lunges not squats" thing, his babbling to some HS S&C folks about the 'teaching' of the hang power clean, and some piece on Ndamukong Suh doing power shrugs followed by box jumps). It was from the latter two, amongst other definitely-not-crossfit stuff on the internet, that I drew the conclusion that learning the Olympic lifts (or some variation of them) might be good for trying to develop (re-develop?) my athleticism as an older person. If I could draw that conclusion in ~2015 (not as much WL content as currently), then I'm pretty sure that many will draw that conclusion now. . . regardless of what Mr. Boyle says. It is hard to understand why certain S&C guys go beyond ignoring the Olympic lifts and actually move to disparage them; if you don't know them and you don't want to take the time to teach your athletes how to do them (or if you just can't control your athletes), then just admit it and move along.

Absolutely! Rather than trying to justify a position that squats are bad for the back and that weightlifting is too difficult to teach, he could focus instead on other aspects of conditioning, and then hire a weightlifting coach to teach snatches, clean and jerks, and squats.

The cognitive dissonance of Boyle and his followers is off the charts. A while back I was commenting on some absolutely atrocious power cleans one of his athletes was doing. I even screen shot the exact problems I was talking about, and his legion of followers basically just resorted to name calling.

I don't know what it is about fitness/sports that makes people so ignorant.

The cognitive dissonance of Boyle and his followers is off the charts. A while back I was commenting on some absolutely atrocious power cleans one of his athletes was doing. I even screen shot the exact problems I was talking about, and his legion of followers basically just resorted to name calling.

I don't know what it is about fitness/sports that makes people so ignorant.

Thing is about fitness/lifting... as well all know, it can utterly change lives. Drastically. So if some delusional shit finds a 3/10 'coach' and makes any gains to get them out ov their slob form, its still a drastic life change... and well, just like religion, people get stupid about it. I can say for a fact that while i unfortunately never found weightlifting when i was 31, i did find powerlifting... and it completely, utterly, drastically changed my life. I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. I wanted everyone to do this... it was soooo amaazing. I made a LOT ov enemies for the simple crime ov being so incredibly passionate about this life-changing discipline. Weightlifting would have been the exact same thing. I was not a slob, or even remotely out ov shape... but i was directionless and utterly hopeless in the gym. I'd wanted to be big and badass my whole life, and had NO idea how to get there. I wasted a LOT ov time and money trying...

If you're a lazy slob, or even just behind life's 8-ball, then even a mediocre, 'okay' coach can change your life (helloooooo Crossfit!). When someone pulls you out ov the hole, well... you get pretty fucking protective ov them, usually. In a perfect world there would only be good, knowledgable coaches... and this religion would be a legit one, but unfortunately the fitness industry (likely for the above reasons) is one ov the most utterly corrupt industries on the planet.