Vidyaraja wrote: I haven't researched as much about Shingon as I would like and I know that Shingon doesn't have the later tantras that Tibetan Buddhism has, but is there an equivalent practice or something similar to Dzogchen within Shingon?

from what little i know shingon is a path of transformation.And because of that i dont think there would be anything similar to dzogchen within shingon.

"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

Geshe Sonam's uncle, Khensur Delek who is now the abbot of Sera Jey, is the ex-abbot of the tantric college and has been invited to one of the Shingon monasteries in Japan to give initiations. I will try to find the photos because I'd love to know the name of the monastery.

Geshe Sonam's uncle, Khensur Delek who is now the abbot of Sera Jey, is the ex-abbot of the tantric college and has been invited to one of the Shingon monasteries in Japan to give initiations. I will try to find the photos because I'd love to know the name of the monastery.

I'm not quite sure. They focus primarily on deity yoga as I understand it.

Plenty of people in Shingon take an interest in Tibetan Buddhism. It doesn't seem to go the other way around though.

If you consider Tantra your primary interest you can find Tibetan Vajrayana sources plenty in English. Shingon is a different matter and to pursue it you would soon find the need to learn Japanese because of the lack or English resources, not to mention ordination in Japan. Learning to read the canonical works is the next level. But it's not impossible, there is at least one Westerner who went through with it and he is a Shingon master living in Japan. Tibetan Buddhism is a lot easier path. In terms of ordination, however, if you were serious about becoming a monk, the easiest way is going for Theravada, second best is Taiwan and Korea.

1Myriad dharmas are only mind. Mind is unobtainable. What is there to seek?2If the Buddha-Nature is seen,there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.3Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.4With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,the six paramitas and myriad meansare complete within that essence.

...and I know that Shingon doesn't have the later tantras that Tibetan Buddhism has...

There is an interesting dissenting view on this matter... not particularly about Shingon but on this Tantra work and its relationship with the Tibetan classification of Tantra (and extending the questioning: if this Tibetan classical classification has an Indian precedent or not, and if not, as this dissertation points out on how it is a Tibetan development, that it should be distinguished from how Shingon classifies its own Vajrayana teaching and practice?), from a dissertation on the Candamaharosana Tantra (CMT) by Christopher Starr George, pages xxxvi-iii, as below...[note the bolded parts]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/58179695/TEXT ... ana-TantraAccording to formal Tibetan classification, this work is a Vyakhyatantra, or 'Explanatory Tantra' belonging to the school of Guhyasamaja Tantra, which in turn is one of the five Mulatantras, or 'Basic Tantras' in the class of Annutarayogatantras. The four classes of Buddhist Tantra are Kriya, Carya, Yoga and Annutarayoga. Within the class, Annutarayoga Tantra, the five Mulatantras are the Guhyasamaja (also referred to as the Tathagataguhyaka), the Vairocanamayajala, the Buddhasamayoga, the Candraguhyatilaka, and the Manjusrikrodha Tantra. Among works associated with the GS (Guhyasamaja) are ritual manuals (sadhana), texts on initiation (diksa) and Vyakhyatantras. It is this latter group to which the CMT belongs, along with others, viz the Vajramala and the Hevajradakinijalasamvaratantra.

It is important to note, however, that the CMT neither relies for authority upon any any particular work or school, nor is incomplete in the sense of requiring other specilized works on e.g. mandala construction, initiation, etc. After a study of this work, one has the feeling that the above Tibetan classification, established several centuries after the composition of the CMT may be rather artificial and that the cult of the Candamaharosana , although still much a part of the Vajrayana movement, enjoyed a high degree of autonomy.

I believe it was Principles of Buddhist Tantra by Kirti Tsenshap Rinpoche that said Tibetan Buddhism no longer has any Yoga Tantra lineages and only a couple Charya lineages. Whereas Shingon has both in abundance. Shingon doesn't have HYT. Both sects practice Kriya.

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.Through the qualities of meditating in that way,Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

JKhedrup wrote: Part of the problem might be visa-wise. It is very hard for Tibetans to stay in Japan.

This is one of the things I've worried about. Of course there are plenty of Tibetan resources in the US, as others have pointed out to me, but if I wanted to study abroad I believe India has 10 year visas for Americans if say I wanted to study in Dharamsala or elsewhere. The only issue I've had with India is (I could be wrong here) that I've heard so many horror stories about living there. One cannot live through the eyes of fear, but I've heard spiritual charlatans, malaria, rabies, filthy water, etc. are serious dangers to take into consideration.

One of the reasons I initially inquired about Chan Buddhism, and also my recent question about Tibetan Buddhism and Shingon in China, is because China is comparatively easier to get to. I had already had plans of trying to teach English in China.

Japan I am sure would be equally difficult for Westerners to get a visa to stay for prolonged periods, though of course I could be wrong about this as it is not something I've researched in any amount of depth.

Astus wrote:If you consider Tantra your primary interest you can find Tibetan Vajrayana sources plenty in English. Shingon is a different matter and to pursue it you would soon find the need to learn Japanese because of the lack or English resources, not to mention ordination in Japan. Learning to read the canonical works is the next level. But it's not impossible, there is at least one Westerner who went through with it and he is a Shingon master living in Japan. Tibetan Buddhism is a lot easier path. In terms of ordination, however, if you were serious about becoming a monk, the easiest way is going for Theravada, second best is Taiwan and Korea.

I've heard much the same about Theravada, but I'll admit I've never been as interested in Theravada as much as Zen and especially Tantra. The Thai Forest tradition sounds nice, but again, I feel my heart lies in tantric Buddhism.

Regarding Shingon, I've managed to procure some resources online so I've been studying it, been trying to read Kukai's works, etc. in conjunction with my study of Tibetan Buddhism. I know this is a bit of a subjective question and may have no right answer, but could anyone say that Shingon is "inferior" to Tibetan Buddhism because of their lack of the later Tantras or perhaps because of the cultural atmosphere being that Japan has Westernized/secularized to a greater degree than Tibetans (or so it seems)? Is there any benefits or anything unique to Shingon that would make it worthy of pursuing further over simply going straight into Tibetan Buddhism?

I suppose culture shouldn't factor in so highly as the teachings and spiritual potential of a tradition, and while I don't dislike Tibetan culture by any means (quite fascinated by it),since childhood I've had an interest in North East Asian cultures. I suppose my love of traditional Chinese, Japanese, and Korean culture is what has made me even consider Shingon or, previously, Zen over Tibetan Buddhism. It also seems to me that the East Asian languages might have a more practical use beyond just the study of Buddhism and more resources available compared to Tibetan. In any case, I hope to I can learn more from the learned members of this forum and from my own study, and I am sure with continued effort and exploration I will find my niche. Thanks again everyone.

Vidyaraja wrote:could anyone say that Shingon is "inferior" to Tibetan Buddhism because of their lack of the later Tantras

Yes. Highest Yoga Tantra is superior as its name implies. Of course, this is the Tibetan view. As far as I am aware, Yoga Tantra is lesser only in the sense that one can not attain Enlightenment in one life through it without using Tantric methods of life extension.

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.Through the qualities of meditating in that way,Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

There is only one type of inferior tradition in Buddhism and that is what another tradition imagines to be so. Buddhism per definition is the path to liberation, no matter what tradition. Shingon (and Tendai, another Japanese school that maintains an esoteric tradition) are different from Tibetan Vajrayana in several ways, especially because it is East Asian Mahayana and therefore contains teachings unique to that cultural-religious sphere.

It is an important doctrine of Shingon that one can attain buddhahood in this body (sokushin jobutsu), and you can also read Kukai's short work on it, the Sokushin-jobutsu-gi. (As a cultural footnote (not to be confused with Kukai's teaching) look at what sokushinbutsu means.) So, as I said, it is only from the biased interpretation of another tradition that a school is inferior.

1Myriad dharmas are only mind. Mind is unobtainable. What is there to seek?2If the Buddha-Nature is seen,there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.3Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.4With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,the six paramitas and myriad meansare complete within that essence.

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.Through the qualities of meditating in that way,Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.Through the qualities of meditating in that way,Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."