I've been looking at my transmutes and I cant find the one that lets me make living steel without a miner or transmute gems without a jeweler. Its almost as if the trade skills are intended to be interdependent.

I think it's right next to the one that requires Living Steel to make your high end alchemy stuff.

Originally Posted by Arahir

No, they should not be absolutely symmetrical, but they should be close. Maybe have Alchemists do a transmute of Windwool into imperial silk, and the leather too.

and no, BS does not have to equivalent to JC or Enchanting, but it should be equivalent to Tailor and LW.

That wouldn't make it symmetrical either. Perhaps requiring bars of metal to make flasks or enchanting mats.

Originally Posted by Kujako

Great. So when do Alchemists get to craft gear to sell? Or should they only be close to symmetrical when it comes to stuff you dont get?

Apples to oranges. One of the primary things Alchemists make to sell is transmutes, which require the aid of other trade skills to do. Why should Smiths not need to interact with other players while other trade skills do? You are making the belt buckles to sell, correct? If not then its only one and there's no point in this long complaint about having buy the materials.

Apples to oranges indeed. If I'm making high end things on my blacksmith just for myself, I still need an alchemist. If an alchemist is making things just for himself, he's entirely self sufficient. Even if we're looking at things to sell, you'll still be selling pots by the end of the expansion, and probably every week (or maybe that's just me). Blacksmithing seriously peters out; no one goes through a stack of belt buckles after a night of raiding.

Originally Posted by Rivyr

No one has mentioned enginering here, this profession has a long history of needing items made by other professions. Bolts of cloth, special tubes from BS, gems from prospecting, leather from skinning even hides from LW.

As a JC i need an alchemist to make meta gems and in turn the alchemist needs my gems to transmute said meta gems.

There have been tailoring patterns that needed dust from enchanters in the past.

enchanteres used to need black smiths and for a time, Leather working needed BS as well to create buckles.

so to cry about your profession needing an item from another profession is pointless. The game has had a long history of professiosn being dependent upon other professions to make their items.

Oh no, we understand. Engineering was the profession I chose on my first character several years ago. As interdependent as that as, I still have 2 engineers. I will never level blacksmithing again. And yes, tailors and leatherworkers did need buckles to make things, but nothing that you couldn't just skip in order to skill up and more importantly, nothing that was high end. And as far as what I highlighted in your comment, what item can an alchemist make that requires Living Steel and gems? They're entirely independent with an herbalist combination and it show in this thread where you have blacksmiths saying, "This isn't right or fair", and alchemists saying "I'm making tons of money on it so there's nothing wrong here".

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

Everyone screams if a class is out of balance, but not a profession?? Why the double standard?

Because it makes no actual difference? ZOMG I have to use the AH -- my world is ending!!!1!

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

What part are you not understanding Osmeric? I have no problem using the AH when I need to, but if a Tailor or a LW does not need to, why should a blacksmith? Can you please explain why the double standard in plain simple language so my small brain that obviously cannot grasp the reasoning can understand it!

Tailor, uses Imperial Silk, created by TAILOR cooldown,
LW, uses Magnificent Leather, created by LW cooldown,
BS, used Living Steel, created by created by Alchemist cooldown!

heck, the tailor doesn't even need to worry about collecting Spirits of Harmony!!

What part are you not understanding Osmeric? I have no problem using the AH when I need to, but if a Tailor or a LW does not need to, why should a blacksmith? Can you please explain why the double standard in plain simple language so my small brain that obviously cannot grasp the reasoning can understand it!

Tailor, uses Imperial Silk, created by TAILOR cooldown,
LW, uses Magnificent Leather, created by LW cooldown,
BS, used Living Steel, created by created by Alchemist cooldown!

And LW can skin those leathers that you need to create Magnificent Hide? Thought so.

Tailors, Leatherworkers can gather all thier mats and make their own crafting gear including epic quality.Blacksmithers can't make living steel which is required by everything.
JC's can mine nodes = free mats to cut gems(no metas but can make alot of profit from gems)
Alch can gather herbs = free mats
and so on.

What part are you not understanding Osmeric? I have no problem using the AH when I need to, but if a Tailor or a LW does not need to, why should a blacksmith? Can you please explain why the double standard in plain simple language so my small brain that obviously cannot grasp the reasoning can understand it!

I simply reject the implication that if blacksmithing is not identical in its relationship to other professions then there is something wrong. Why should I think this is a problem? I don't have some sort of obsessive compulsive fixation on symmetry for the sake of symmetry, and from a practical point of view you can use AH to get mats.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

As I stated earlier in this thread, the main I leveled up first (and am raiding/PvPing with) in this expansion is a blacksmith/miner.

I do have a level 85 alt on that server that is an alchemist, already skilled up to 600. This was not hard to do, but it doesn't save me a whole lot vs. buying LS if I had to.

I've made tens of thousands of gold selling ilvl 463 weapons on the AH, and of course am benefiting from the superiority of the BS sockets in PvP (where, unlike other professions, they allow extra PvP power to be added to your stats.)

Problem is, BS and Eng are totally reliant on Alchemist as well as Miner,

May I suggest you simply stop whining about this? Seriously -- you are creating a problem that's entirely a product of your own irrationality. There is no objective reason this should offend you.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

The only reason it "offends" me is that, as an armour crafter, I need to rely on another crafting profession to do so. The other armour crafters do not. Either all should or none should.

You're reduced to merely restating your complaint, because you cannot construct an argument that actually justifies your position. "Not being the same is bad because it's bad. BAAAD!"

Never mind that the AH provides a way to obtain these mats at acceptable cost. Never mind that BS is not just an armor crafting profession. Never mind that BS provides benefits in PvP beyond the other professions. It's not the same, therefore it's bad.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

and of course am benefiting from the superiority of the BS sockets in PvP (where, unlike other professions, they allow extra PvP power to be added to your stats.)

Shhhhh, Don't say that too loud, blizz will see it and nerf it......

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 02:53 PM ----------

If not being the same is bad, why do we get complaints all the time because x class's dps is not as high as y class? You have not provided a reason why it is good, either! If it is to stimulate trade between crafts, why do not all crafts have similar requirements, say have the imperial silk cooldown done by an enchanter(because it has to be imbdued with the magical properties) , and the magnificent leather cooldown done by a Scribe (the leather needs to be etched with special ink). Just because you say it is good, does not make it so!