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Author
Topic: I've been a bad boy! (Read 8783 times)

Ok I'm only human and when the need hit me I took the chance and got with someone tonight and had fun with them and they did not ask about my status. By the way it was good. I needed that since me and Brad are not on good terms lately and we have moved out of the same room together. I invited someone to come over for a quicky and had a blast.

Ok I'm only human and when the need hit me I took the chance and got with someone tonight and had fun with them and they did not ask about my status. By the way it was good. I needed that since me and Brad are not on good terms lately and we have moved out of the same room together. I invited someone to come over for a quicky and had a blast.

Well I wouldnt say you were bad,,..if was his own responsiibility to ask about your status and protect himself....out of curiosity, did you ask HIS status? for allyouknow maybe he was already poz? But either way, you werent bad because we all have to assume responsibility for our own well being.

I understand that this is an extreme but it gets my point across.Asking why it's our responsibility is like telling the the guy with the loaded gun it's not his fault he shot the other guy. The other guy should have seen the gun and moved.At some point we have to take responsibility or our actions, At some point we have to make ethical decisions and even ethical demands.Who decided it's not ok to slap the shit out of someone just because you don't like the way they look? It's really no different.

I understand that this is an extreme but it gets my point across.Asking why it's our responsibility is like telling the the guy with the loaded gun it's not his fault he shot the other guy. The other guy should have seen the gun and moved.At some point we have to take responsibility or our actions, At some point we have to make ethical decisions and even ethical demands.Who decided it's not ok to slap the shit out of someone just because you don't like the way they look? It's really no different.

It is different. Assaulting someone is an act that is inherently malicious.

And I don't think that the comparison of people with HIV/AIDS to loaded guns is a valid one in the least. When someone is shot, they will suffer some sort of physical damage... guaranteed. Protected sex with an HIV+ person is a virtual guarantee of no physical consequence to the negative person.

I think that putting the onus of disclosure on those of us that are poz is inherently unfair, irresponsible, and is a set up for many more situations of undisclosed sexual intercourse. I can say that it is the responsibility of every HIV- person to ask someone's status if they truly wish to know... it was my responsibility to do that, and I failed to live up to it. Is this coupled with a responsibility on the part of HIV+ people to disclose? Yes. But don't put it all on me.

So, if it's not our responsibility why is it everyone else's responsibility?To say I don't want to be responsible let the other guy worry about it doesn't work. The other guy is going to say the same thing.Someone has to be responsible and stop this from spreading. We are the ones that can stop it. It falls on us.I understand as well as anyone that this is no fun for us but it doesn't just go away by it's self.

Well I am a neggie. It would be great if the men I want to play with would disclose their status. Many probably do, and unofrtunately, many probably dont even know their status. But the fact of the matter is, people also lie. If I meet someone I want to fool around with, I want to remain negative - but I cannot rely on potential partners to have my best interest at heart. Many may be great guys, but not everyone is so nice. taken all this into consideration, I can only truly rely upon myself to keep my status protected - so I have to take the necessary precautions by asking questions AND by having protected sex.

But this is just me and I respect anyone whose opinion differs from my own and follows their own set of rules in these circumstances.

Oh and one more thing....in these cases sex is consensual...to compare with being shot is like comparing apples to oranges....I dont think being a victim of a crime is consensual.

So, if it's not our responsibility why is it everyone else's responsibility?To say I don't want to be responsible let the other guy worry about it doesn't work. The other guy is going to say the same thing.Someone has to be responsible and stop this from spreading. We are the ones that can stop it. It falls on us.I understand as well as anyone that this is no fun for us but it doesn't just go away by it's self.

I've been saying that the responsibility should be shared. I don't think that 100% of the ethical responsibility for disclosure goes along with the virus into everyone it infects.

I think this is a question that is a lot more serious than "fun." It's a question, ultimately, of sitgma and sexual segregation. To posit that each and every HIV+ person is solely responsible for disclosure, to compare ourselves to loaded guns, and to give us the power of stopping an epidemic dead in its tracks is giving us an almost godlike power over this virus. That premise turns each poz person into judge, jury, and executioner... and in reality, we're just people. We are people with HIV. As humans, we don't have that responsibility We communicate with HIV- people everyday on a multitude of levels... some casual, some not so casual... and in every interaction, sometimes people make mistakes.

What's that expression? With power comes responsibility? Logically, one would assume that having some sort of responsibility implies that one would have some sort of power. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that having HIV means that a lot of basic powers are stripped from us to varying degrees... and that's incredibly difficult for humans to deal with... I'm not looking to have a bunch of extra responsibility shoved on me because I caught a virus. And I don't think it's realistic to assume that every poz person should either.

One thing you did not state, Jerry, was whether or not you guys used condoms.

Don't worry, I live in a glass house so will not be throwing stones. I'm no angel when it comes to these things, but here's my two bobs worth.

I have to agree with aupointillimite, in that I don't believe I should be forced into disclosure, with a proviso. That is, so long as I am practising safer sex. Disclosure, itself does not prevent the spread of the virus, safer sex does.

If I am having unprotected sex, then I should discuss it beforehand. Those who know me on here, however, know that I have not been perfect in this regard. One of the reasons that I pretty much steer clear of casual sex these days.

But, I firmly believe that everyperson is responsible for their own protection. Me, I need to protect myself from the myriad of other bugs that I don't want, and I should advise him of my bug. My partner is responsible for his own protection. There are so many people who don't know their HIV status, or their status for other STD's, that him simply asking someones status does not equal protection.

As an aside, it is illegal in the State I live in, NSW, to not disclose to a partner before sex if you are HIV +ve, or if you have any other STD, protected sex or not. I personally, think these laws suck. Why isn't there a similar law requiring to HIV -ve people to only have safer sex, or to inquire of their partner's HIV status and status re all other STD's?

You have not been a bad boy. Nobody discloses. But most people always wear condoms without asking or telling their status, which means they realize they might be having sex with someone with HIV or any other STD disease.That is what condoms are for. If everybody told the truth or knew their status condoms would not be necessary.

Jerry, I found your twin. He lives here in town and is also gay. I'll have to get a picture of him and send it to you. You'll probably freak. It's all right that you have fun, just be careful and be safe. If you don't care I want to show him your picture. I want to see the look on his face.

Ok I'm only human and when the need hit me I took the chance and got with someone tonight and had fun with them and they did not ask about my status.

Just assuming here by " I took the chance " that condoms were not used. I've done this and it is why I am here, " I took the chance ". Luckily I tested and found out I was positive before taking the chance again. I still take the chance but with someone who is also positive. It is our choice, mutually, however wrong the experts and nay sayers may advise.

While I once felt this way and agreed 100% with you Grinch, I now can't hold either party solely responsible. Now if a neggie wants to remain so it is 100% their responsibility to protect themselves. Only an idiot would not realize the risks involved. I was the idiot at one time, now I'm more educated on the matter, all be it a little after the fact.

Well I am a neggie. It would be great if the men I want to play with would disclose their status. Many probably do, and unfortunately, many probably don't even know their status. But the fact of the matter is, people also lie. If I meet someone I want to fool around with, I want to remain negative - but I cannot rely on potential partners to have my best interest at heart. Many may be great guys, but not everyone is so nice. taken all this into consideration, I can only truly rely upon myself to keep my status protected - so I have to take the necessary precautions by asking questions AND by having protected sex.

Bravo!!!! Amen to that brother.... see folks some neggies do have a clue! Education hits few and it's definitely hit Jeff. Jeff if we all had your head none of us would be here. Keep up the good work (sorry to sound so elementary only one cup of coffee so far).

In my own situation after I was infected I was having unprotected sex with both my ex wives. I was really getting it on with ex wife #1. So much so I can't even give an accurate count to the number of times. She and I would have marathon sessions over the course of a weekend and this happend on several weekends. I did not know my status at the time. When I tested positive in September of 05 it took me a month before I was able to work up the nerve to tell her. Luckily for her, not necessarily me, she has remained negative. If she had tested positive it would have been her own fault not mine. We had not been together for over 10 years before we had our animalistic sexcapades. She just figured that I had been a good boy during my second marriage, which was mainly the case except for one occasion which took place in April of 05.

Ex wife #2 on the other hand is a different scenario. We were in a monogamous relationship for the better part of 10 years. Towards the end we had sex maybe 3 times a year. She had issues that would make this thread longer than the porn thread if I wrote about them, because I want Jeromy to hold the title for longest thread I won't do so. Long story short, I cheated on her; had one sexual experience with her after and lucky for me she tested negative.

It is my opinion.... MY OPINION... That Jerry has done nothing wrong here and once again that is assuming he did not use condoms which is not even a question to throw at Jerry. It's none of our frickin business.

This is what I do hope though, once again assuming condoms were not used. That this guy, assuming he is negative, tests regularly. Lucky for me I always tested when not in a monogamous relationship and am proud to say I never infected anyone... I know this for a fact. Now as mentioned I had a close call, but only ex wife #2 was really my responsibility. We were married for 10 years and had a child. I was the one who did not love myself and consequently did not protect myself or her trust. There are married women here that have had this done to them... Outside of the needle pricks and what not those are the only victims here. Not Jerry's fling mate!

Well, back to the event that spawned this discussion, I'm glad you got some Jerry!!!

Basquo,

This is why I have always been a fan of yours! You are truly one of the most non judgemental people that inhabit these forums..

Jerry I've always felt like a protective big brother to you... I can't explain it other than to say you remind me much of myself. Keep your chin up and keep trucking forward.. I am so proud of you still. You finally got out from under your parents and moved on with your life. You were miserable and don't you ever go back to that mindset!

Jerry, I found your twin. He lives here in town and is also gay. I'll have to get a picture of him and send it to you. You'll probably freak. It's all right that you have fun, just be careful and be safe. If you don't care I want to show him your picture. I want to see the look on his face.

Rodney

Well I am glad you clarified he was gay because I figured it was a pic of me, I am such a good looking guy. How do I know this? You should see the hot mama sleeping in my bed!!

You have not been a bad boy. Nobody discloses. But most people always wear condoms without asking or telling their status, which means they realize they might be having sex with someone with HIV or any other STD disease.That is what condoms are for. If everybody told the truth or knew their status condoms would not be necessary.

Bingo! Grinch didn't even bother to ask Jerry if, (or even simply assume that), he was wearing condoms. The easy thing in the world is to condemn someone for not disclosing or sitting on a soap box pretending that 100% disclosure is the only option. It's not. You can prevent the transmission of HIV simply by wearing a condom. These loaded gun scenarios are nonsensical and full of judgment, (as if we are all loaded guns just waiting to kill an innocent victim).

Fact is, 100% disclosure is not a realistic solution and quite honestly probably wouldn't impact the HIV transmission rates since the vast majority of people who know their status already take the necessary precautions to stop further transmission of their disease (whether by using condoms, sero-sorting, disclosing, etc.). This disease continues to be spread primarily by people who do NOT know their status. 100% disclosure isn't going to do much to prevent those kinds of transmissions.

First things first -- Congrats Jerry -- we all need human contact and we remain sexual beings despite this virus. I don't think you were bad -- hell, I don't even know the whole story -- AND don't need to know it.

Now -- on to the disclose or not disclose -- many people are talking in absolutes here. We live in a world with few "absolutes", so let's move past that. It's not the sole responsibility of positives to disclose and not the sole responsibility of negatives to ask their partner's status. It IS, however, everyone's sole responsibility to take care of themselves and to be kind to others. So, everyone should assume their partner is positive and protective themselves, EVEN IF THEY SAY THEY ARE NEGATIVE. I personally feel it is MY responsibility to disclose to anyone I have sex with -- but I'm not putting that on everyone else.Full disclosure won't be the end of this epidemic, but I have to disagree with Cliff and say that it would be of some help. Not all positives disclose OR practice safe sex, if they did, I would not have acquired a virus with some drug resistance. Now the person I got this virus from (notice I didn't say, "the person who gave it to me") may not have known he was positive, but someone in the chain did -- because they were treatment experienced. My point here -- is that disclosing and/or asking statuses is NOT the be all and end all -- we all have to play safe, that's all. AND, we all have to remember that humans are notorious for making "mistakes" and having "accidents". So, let's stop judging and just do the best we can.

Again -- congrats on your good time Jerry -- you certainly deserved it!!

Now, Jerry, I am certainly not one to judge...so CONGRATULATIONS...now back to the judgment part...was his p&^% a good size?? I only ask because, if I were to judge...well that's where I would start...

You're OK Jerry and I hear ya when you say you needed some contact. You know we have a enough to deal with on our own. I see no reason to babysit grown men. Everybody - that includes Amazonian Indians, the Inuit, Masai herders, Breton fishermen and even people from Kansas - knows that sex can bring some form of disease. Enough with the disclosure of private painful stuff to strangers just to get off. They roll the dice purposefully to have the pleasure of bareback sex. And we all know it. And yes they would be the first ones to lay blame if they come up poz. Too fuckin' bad. Razorbill (again in a take no prisoners mood)PS - I try to disclose, but sometimes booze, the speed of the act and just plain tiredness doesn't let it happen. I guess that leaves the other guy to his own devices. I would never top a guy bareback unless I knew he was poz.

I do believe that as positive folks, we have a responsibility to practice safer sex.So do negative folks, as they are only negative as of the point in time of their last test (and who knows what has transpired since then). When engaging in sex, I believe that everyone (positive and negative) assumes some degree of risk of transmitting an STD, and everyone should do what they can to minimize the risk.

Of course, it is easy to (more or less) objectively analyze it in a discussion here,but sex is not analytical (thankfully). In the heat of the moment, we're notgoing to conduct a risk analysis study. That's why safer sex education is so important,and needs to be a prevalent, repetitive message so it becomes second nature.

I believe there are about 20 US states that have HIV transmission laws, most of which make it a crime for positive folks to have sex without first disclosing their status -- regardless of whether transmission actually occurs or a condom was used. So, if youlive in one of these states, you should be aware of the possibility of criminal prosecution if your partner later finds out that you did not disclose. I think these laws suck for manyreasons, not the least of which is that they seem to absolve negative folks of anyresponsibility. Plus, I don't feel these laws make most positive folks any morelikely to disclose. Oh, and why do these laws apply only to HIV, and not other STDs?

Of course, since it has been years since I've had sex, this is mostly a moot point for me.However, you can since I've thought about this a lot and am prepared just in case itever should come to pass.

Cheers,

Henry

Logged

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

No condoms were used and damnint I loved it all. Saturday I found someone else that was positive though and that was even better than the first one. I had to end the 2006 year and start fresh for the new year.

But, the bottom line is that condoms should be used at all times. For an HIV+ person to be having unprotected sex and not disclosing is criminal. You are also opening yourself up to more infections that could be devastating if you already have HIV. Coinfection with a drug resistant HIV strain is possible, as is Hep B and C, both raise the probability of liver cancer, and complicate treatment. I would hate to think that the person who infected me knew his status. So I won't even think about that.

People still die of AIDS folks, giving it to someone could potentially kill them, regardless of the advances.

No condoms were used and damnint I loved it all. Saturday I found someone else that was positive though and that was even better than the first one. I had to end the 2006 year and start fresh for the new year.

Please be careful Jerry. You're an adult so I won't lecture you. However, you are venturing into legal issues and given your participation in the forums, I suggest you be careful in deciding what you disclose in public. Stick to positive folks (barebacking that is). It just makes life easier (and you don't have to worry about not sleeping at night)!

Understand Cliff I have decided to just stick with positive guys from here on out and yes they will know that I have AIDS.

Good for you! Life is about having fun and enjoying it. So you won't get no complaints from me. But sometimes it's just better avoiding the mine-fields, especially this day and age when people (neggies) are quick to use the law to avoid any personal responsibility.

Well...Jerry only said there were no condoms, but he did not say anything about barebacking or any other risky behaviour...so maybe condoms were not needed.Anyway...everybody is responsible for their own sexual health (except in rape cases). I always use protection not only to protect others, but to protect myself from other STD. Being HIV+ does not mean you are a second class human being or you donīt care about what happens to you. I look after myself better than ever before.Some neggies think we have nothing to loose and that is not true.

Geez! I am hoping this thread does not take a turn for the worse. Congrats on getting laid, Jerry X 2. I will not preach to you about not wearing a condom, you are grown and you know the deal. I am not here to pass judgment. I am wondering though, are you going to continue sex w/o condoms and is it going to be with the person(s) you been with already? I would make some type of contract with your partners if you are going to be raw dogging. I would hate to see something come back and bite you in the ass.

I can't believe people are honestly going to stand by and say "Oh good for you, great job." You had unprotected sex and didn't tell the guy."Hell it's his responsibility to ask and use a condom." That's just a load of garbage. Take some damn responsibility for your own actions.You knowingly acted in a manner that may well condemn someone to this crappy life we all live because you are selfish and irresponsible.Yeah the guy should have worn a condom because you might have been poz, but you damn sure should have because you know full well you are poz.

Yeah you getting your rocks of sure is worth exposing someone to a deadly virus. Good job, go brag about it some more.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

The Reason I started this thread was to say I had sex with someone and I did not have safe sex with them. Mostly all we did was get each other off no intercourse was preformed that night. Day two was with a friend of mine who is HIV+ and yes we had sexual intercourse. So to state my point I usually don't have sex with non positive people but with the way things are out there in this day and time who knows who is positive and who is not. That is just a chance everyone has to take. My bad if some of you took what I said the wrong way at first but I was just expressing the way I felt with finally being with someone again. Keep the peace. Jerry

You knowingly acted in a manner that may well condemn someone to this crappy life we all live because you are selfish and irresponsible. .

It is if we make it that way.. Grinch lighten up bromie seriously. We do not and may never know all the details here. It's wasted energy to get this upset. I've shared some great PM's with you and gather your life is not at all crappy. You've even told me to keep my chin up and I have... Why the negativity all the time when it comes to..... Come on man your better than this, I have the PM's to prove it.

PS Just noticed Jerry came in and gave a little more detail after I posted... Even if he had sex with the guy we will never know what the other guys status was and be sure it was not the other guys first unprotected sex or his last.

It is if we make it that way.. Grinch lighten up bromie seriously. We do not and may never know all the details here. It's wasted energy to get this upset. I've shared some great PM's with you and gather your life is not at all crappy. You've even told me to keep my chin up and I have... Why the negativity all the time when it comes to..... Come on man your better than this, I have the PM's to prove it.

PS Just noticed Jerry came in and gave a little more detail after I posted... Even if he had sex with the guy we will never know what the other guys status was and be sure it was not the other guys first unprotected sex or his last.

IMO, what would be the point in shaking your finger at Jerry and his actions? The one guy should've been responsible his damn self so we know he was thinking with the wrong head. The other guy being poz knew the risks and blew caution to the wind. As did Jerry and they had a great time. Bottomline, it was their choice, they made it and chose to deal with the consequences of their lustful actions, should there be any.

I shouldn't get so pissed about this but it drives me nuts when everyone wants to say "It's not my responsibility"It is our responsibility.I understand and agree that condoms prevent transmission. Not using one and not telling your partner that you are about to do something that could infect them is wrong. No amount of justifying your actions will change that.I believe that is no different than being a denialist. What I have a major problem is everyone jumping in and defending the actions of someone that does something wrong. If we all take the attitude of the original sentence I took issue with "if was his own responsibility to ask about your status and protect himself" We've lost a big battle with regards to stopping the spread of this disease as well as public perception.That sentence was what I took issue with. Just that sentence.

Skeebo you're right, I have a pretty good life because I choose to make it that way. I've had to give up a lot because of this damn disease though. You ask me why I get so upset about this subject. It's really simple.We are responsible for our actions. Period.

We have a horrible image with the public. Don't believe me ask someone. We can help change that by our actions. It takes one case of "That bastard knew he had AIDS and infected me!" to get laws passed, bad headlines etc. If someone from the press were to read this thread what do you think the headline would read?

I promise you it wouldn't be: "AIDSMEDS member gets laid!"Will we stop the spread of this disease by our actions? Probably not, but we can do our part. Deny it all you want but it IS our responsibility.

Bottom line is this. rights right...wrongs wrong. Doing anything that could infect someone else is wrong. If that means you never again get to put your dick anywhere you please without you making sure you don't infect someone too bad. That may be harsh but so is HIV/AIDS.

To anyone I personally offended I apologize. I don't really think many people here are bad people. At the same time we can't all just pat everyone on the back and say "It's all right, you can do anything you'd like, after all.....you're only human."

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Perfection is not at issue...the clap feels a whole lot worse a whole lot quicker than HIV.Why take the chance?My memories of the sixties/ seventies while having safe sex with myself have been much better than any recent encounters.

Grinch your points are well taken and received. My thinking on this subject has changed dramatically over the past year. If this person is negative he is just another example of how education through the media, health profession, etc.. is continuing to fail to get the message across to those not given our disease. Sadly all we have to do is visit our "Am I Infected" forum to get a reminder of this... it's but a click away. I am not sure how long ago you were, but just two years ago I was one of those (neggies) who just ignored the facts. While still bliss, ignorance is no excuse for them.

BTW... I think this discussion has hit home a great point to us all regardless and for that reason all opinions here are important.

I can't go to the am I infected forum... I know I'd make a comment along the lines of "Is it painful to be that stupid?!" I just stay far away and everything is much better. As far as when was I infected? I found out in early 04. I've been married and completely faithful for 11 years. Best guess is late 80's when I was doing some IV drugs, or one of the women between then and meeting my wife.

I think you should reread this thread. You made some serious allegations, (everyone in this thread told Jerry he had no responsibility). I just reread this thread, (cause I didn't think that was the case at all), and didn't notice anyone tell him that he had no responsibility when it comes to sex. What I saw were folks providing real world advice that doesn't just deal with the extreme.

I saw lots of forum members informing Jerry of harm reduction activities, disclosure options, personal methods, etc. What people weren't doing, was beating Jerry up for being human (though this all turned out to be a nonevent, given his partner was never at risk). Beating someone up doesn't help.

Cliff

P.S.- My life is not crappy, and I don't appreciate you assuming/saying that everyone who has HIV has a crappy life.

What I take issue with is the statement that was made and has been made in other threads. The statement was:"if was his own responsibility to ask about your status and protect himself" This is what I take issue with. This is the prevailing message I took from the thread. I don't understand why so many very intelligent people insist on taking pieces of the whole statement and tearing it apart word by word to change the meaning of the whole statement.

Regarding the crappy life statement: Having aids does suck. A few folks have very little change in their lives for a time. How many are on permanent disability? How many take a boatload of pills with nasty side effects? This doesn't mean every aspect of every bodies life is crappy, it means on the whole living with aids sucks. I know you're smart enough to know what I meant.

Yeah Grinch having AIDS does suck but some people all they want to dwell with is the fact they have AIDS and that it is the end of the world for them. I see it as I might have HIV but HIV does not and will not take control of my life. Just because we have AIDS does not mean we should give up on living we need to live each day like everyone else does. Just keep the peace and move on and let it pass.