The earlier builds (with the nicer inlay work) did not have inked serial numbers, and don't make me show you the email from Bacchus and the local dealer to prove it. _________________Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

I must have seen 20 examples of vintage series guitars with S/N's and none without.

Oh well, I guess that proves it conclusively then.

I've seen about 7 or 8 with no serial number.

Can you show me one? with some proof it's a vintage series? I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

I thought that might be the way you were going - an internet implication that Vintage Series without serials are not real Vintage Series guitars.

As I said, I have seen proof from the Bacchus dealer here with the word straight from Deviser that the early Vintage Series builds didn't have serial numbers at all.

I am not going to be able to supply you with the proof you want, but that BSG-68V that was linked to has been examined by the Bacchus dealer here in Melbourne and by Deviser using photos. It was confirmed as a BSG-68V, that it was an older one, and that the lack of a serial number meant nothing, because they didn't put serials on in the early years._________________Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

over the past year I have come across two LP types that had no serial number on the back of the headstock so I asked to look at the electronics and neither had MIJ pots. I probably own more Bacchus guitars than anyone here, do not have an LP type but do have a double cut junior, and apart from my Muddy Waters tele and the high end series tele that they built with Fralin p`ups...all the others came with Nobles pots...that includes the junior, the custom teles, the double bucker semi hollow tele and all were purchased in the mid/ late `90s and I still have all the warranty cards for each one I got new and some were built a few years before I got em judging by the dates on them. I don`t pretend to know everything about MIJ guitars nor do I like to generalize and the only thing I know for certain are the guitars I actually have and have seen with my own eyes, nothing comes from a second hand source. Take it with as much salt as you like but I saw lots of Bacchus guitars that were not listed in any of the catalogs I have.

It would be good if you could be a bit clearer. Are you suggesting that the non-serial Bacchus guitars you've seen are not even made in Japan? Or what, fakes?

Personally, I had always thought that the non-serial numbered ones were probably built for shop runs with particular specs as requested by the seller.
However, with regard to the BSG in question Deviser have looked at it and confirmed it as an early Vintage Series without a serial number. The build quality on it was excellent with perfect inlays, a great neck and all made of mahogany. Apart from the pickups which were Bacchus it also had all Gotoh hardware (but the wiring had been changed-might be due to what you saw with those other non-serial guitars) with an aluminium tail piece and the wider bridge that mounted like an ABR but looked like a Nashville bridge._________________Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

I did not use the word fake, what I thought I clearly said was the two LP types I saw without serials on the headstock did not have the same pots all my other Bacchus guitars came with, I don`t know where they were made and at 100,000 yen I wasn`t that interested...I have not spent as much time thinking about this as you seem to, as I also said during my years in Japan I have come across many Bacchus models that I did not see listed in my catalogs and I think I have them all, not sure if they printed any catalogs prior to the time I got here in 1993 but I do remember when they first showed up in local shops...I liked them, I bought them, I don`t go to sleep at night thinking about this stuff...they`re guitars...I just play em.
I do have some old PLAYER magazines from 1982 with ads for Riverhead and Brian guitars so Headway had been making guitars for quite a while before I got here. I don`t know what Headway did with their serial numbers back then so I`m not going to speculate.
At this time I don`t have anything more to add to this but if and when I do I`ll post more in the thread.

I have seen plenty of Japanese Bacchi with Japanese pots and no S/N with certificates showing model numbers, the only guitars I have seen with vintage series model number designations on the certificates have had serial numbers.

I have also seen guitars WO S/N's built to vintage series specs, but never seen one of these with a certificate indicating it's a vintage seties guitar.

JVsearch, if you can show me ONE photo of a vintage series guitar WO S/N and with certificate showing it's a vintage series I'll gladly accept I'm wrong

I have seen plenty of Japanese Bacchi with Japanese pots and no S/N with certificates showing model numbers, the only guitars I have seen with vintage series model number designations on the certificates have had serial numbers.

I have also seen guitars WO S/N's built to vintage series specs, but never seen one of these with a certificate indicating it's a vintage seties guitar.

JVsearch, if you can show me ONE photo of a vintage series guitar WO S/N and with certificate showing it's a vintage series I'll gladly accept I'm wrong

I'm not going to be able to do that at the moment.

But I'm getting confused about what the issue is now, is it now an issue about certificates and Vintage Series guitars, and if it has a certificate showing the Vintage Series model number but the guitar has no serial number then the guitar is a Vintage Series with no serial number? For all I know Bacchus never issued certificates for their guitars without serial numbers...

We're talking 15 year old guitars with possibly several owners. Of the four Bacchus guitars that I have/had none of them came with certificates except the one that was bought new. It's possible that between now and my death I may end up owning another one of these Vintage Series guitars without a serial number, but the chance that I'll get the certificate with it is virtually zero.

There's no point in me quoting the email I got because obviously I must have faked it, or Deviser and the dealer are both lying to make me happy with my purchase, so I guess it's an internet mystery now, where people may use one bit of info or another to further their own ends. _________________Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

In the most simple observation, the guitar DOES look pretty straight to me (other than the open coil pickups) as a legit Bacchus.... I personally have not seen a single Fakus ever. Is the discussion whether it's a vintage series or perhaps something like the new classic series?