News

'My abuser, was supposedly a man of faith, a man of standing, a man we trusted'

A woman who was abused as a child by a mosque Imam has broken her silence.
She was speaking in an interview with Asian Image undertaken by Community Worker Anjum Anwar.
Nabila (not her real name) has now broken her silence and says that anyone faced with a similar situation needs to speak out and tell someone in authority.
“I am angry that a man was allowed to get away with abusing a little girl for four years, and nobody picked on it, my parents did not pick up on my mood swings, from being quiet to being
angry.
“My abuser, was supposedly a man of faith, a man of standing, a man we trusted, someone one who had authority in the community, he abused his authority he tarnished the image of an Imam in my mind
and heart, and took away my childhood, he took me to the dark place, where I cannot get out of, he is my nightmare, even today.”
Now, Nabila is going through counselling for what happened. She also speaks about seeing her abuser for the first time after many years in the North of England.
Many mosques and religious institutions now have safeguards in place to ensure incidents of this nature are dealt with to the full extent of the law. The vast majority of religious leaders
are pious and sincere people and they will, like everyone else, be shocked to read her account.

Nabila was used to being showered with compliments by her parents, family and friends.
She was a pretty little girl with long black silky hair. So when the holy man, in a place which is considered a safe place, singled her out for ‘special’ treatment, she felt honoured and
proud.
He would ask her to sit next to him, on his lap, to clean his room, to fetch things for him, and gave her money for sweets.
At 7 years of age, Nabila would put on her headscarf, and sit down with the other little girls.
In less than one week into her new ‘evening religious school’ her teacher had ‘chosen’ her, for special attention, running his hands seductively over her body.
Nabila was frightened but did not know how to tell her parents. Who would believe her, what words should she use, was it her fault?
In 2010 Nabila was driving through her town which is her home and her nightmare, and as she passed the familiar streets she gasped, “ it’s him, oh! My God, it’s him.”
He looked the same, tall, fat, old with dishevelled hair.
There is no doubt in Nabila’s mind, that this was the man who took away her innocence - his face etched in her mind.
“I wanted to scream to make him stop, but did not know how. Would he hit me, would he punish me? And I did not know what words to use to tell my parents or my brothers.
“At home, it was expected that children remained in the background. We did not talk to our parents, you know, children should be seen and not heard.
“My father used to work all the hours to provide for us, and my mother used to help by sewing clothes. There were seven of us, four
brothers, my parents and me, and there was never any time to speak.”
Nabila left school at 16, and wanted to go to college, but that was not an option for her.
“No, it was taken for granted that I will leave school, and get married. I had been promised to my cousin in Pakistan.
“That is what we had grown up to believe, but my Sikh friends all went to college, and I wanted to go to college.
“There were many arguments, but something in my head told me that I did not want to get married, and now I think about it, I was rebelling, because the thought of someone touching me was sickening,
but I could not talk about it.
“My father allowed me to go to college under one condition that he will drop me off at the college and pick me up.
She had thoughts of running away, where to go, the only option was her eldest brother’s house, but they too closed their doors to
Nabila.
“In those days we did nothing but watch Bollywood films, you know girl meets boy; they get married and live happily ever after.
“Well I wanted all that, I wanted the Bollywood dream. At college I met a boy – he was a Sikh and as soon as my sister in law heard about it, things changed very quickly.
“Things became extremely difficult at home. I was not allowed to do anything.
Although my brothers had girlfriends and went out I was kept under a lock and key all the time.
“When my father passed away, my eldest brother and mother blamed me for his death, because I had not been the good Muslim girl that I should have been, but nobody knew, that it was a ‘good’ Muslim
man who had killed the good Muslim girl inside of me.
Nabila became detached from her faith.
“Sometimes my mother would say go and do your prayers, but as I did not see her do prayers, I would go up in my room, and tell her I did it, although I did not pray.
“One of my teachers did see the change in my mood but even at school it went no further.
So I did not care what and who thought what of me. I rejected everyone and everything, even my religion.”

Are people still surprised that apparently "religious Men" should act in such inhuman ways?
http://www.channel4.
com/programmes/dispa
tches/episode-guide/
series-80/episode-1
Islam's prophet himself predicted that Islam would weaken and "recoil like a snake" back to the Arabian deserts. As more and muslims leave Islam,it would appear he was right......
http://www.theglobal
ist.com/storyid.aspx
?StoryId=8696
http://www.dailytime
s.com.pk/default.asp
?page=2010%5C12%5C15
%5Cstory_15-12-2010_
pg3_3
http://www.nytimes.c
om/2008/03/03/world/
africa/03iht-youth.4
.10662930.html?_r=3&
pagewanted=all
http://gulfnews.com/
opinions/columnists/
reasons-for-decline-
of-the-muslim-world-
1.176750friendlykamustaka

To the author of the article, although I feel sympathetic to the difficulties you've faced in life (many people go through similar), I must admit that many readers feel offended that you're simply bashing a religion just because you experienced people who didn't do the right things.
.
To AsianImage, I advise you to be more wise in what you publish in the future. It is fair to raise awareness of harm people face in the community, but extending the article to religion bashing is unprofessional, inaccurate, and even offensive to many of your readers.
.
Thankyou :)

To the author of the article, although I feel sympathetic to the difficulties you've faced in life (many people go through similar), I must admit that many readers feel offended that you're simply bashing a religion just because you experienced people who didn't do the right things.
.
To AsianImage, I advise you to be more wise in what you publish in the future. It is fair to raise awareness of harm people face in the community, but extending the article to religion bashing is unprofessional, inaccurate, and even offensive to many of your readers.
.
Thankyou :)Muslim

Muslim wrote:
To the author of the article, although I feel sympathetic to the difficulties you've faced in life (many people go through similar), I must admit that many readers feel offended that you're simply bashing a religion just because you experienced people who didn't do the right things.
.
To AsianImage, I advise you to be more wise in what you publish in the future. It is fair to raise awareness of harm people face in the community, but extending the article to religion bashing is unprofessional, inaccurate, and even offensive to many of your readers.
.
Thankyou :)

As you said many people go through similar ???????
Thats the whole point of freedom so articles like this can be printed and the issues discussed, this young lady went through so much pain in silence, i have young neices that go to the mosque and i always talk to them to see if they are ok.
If anything did ever happen to them they would not tell their parents because these so called imams are held higher than their own children. BUT ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO NEED TO UDERSTAND IT IS GOING ON, AND IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE IT IS NOT THEN YOU SERIOUSLY NEED TO WAKE UP!
That said my solution to the problem.
1. Set up independent monitoring of all mosques, set up a hotline to report any concerns.
2. All mosques should have CCTV backed up remotely.(not expensive)
3. All mosque staff vetted and cleared. (again very simple to do)
I have a massive list but you get the point, the question where the money will come from thats directly from the mosques and donations. IF THE COMMUNITY ARE SERIOUS TO PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN IT WILL BE WELL WORTH IT. THIS MAY NOT STOP ALL ABUSE BUT WE MUST TRY.

[quote][p][bold]Muslim[/bold] wrote:
To the author of the article, although I feel sympathetic to the difficulties you've faced in life (many people go through similar), I must admit that many readers feel offended that you're simply bashing a religion just because you experienced people who didn't do the right things.
.
To AsianImage, I advise you to be more wise in what you publish in the future. It is fair to raise awareness of harm people face in the community, but extending the article to religion bashing is unprofessional, inaccurate, and even offensive to many of your readers.
.
Thankyou :)[/p][/quote]As you said many people go through similar ???????
Thats the whole point of freedom so articles like this can be printed and the issues discussed, this young lady went through so much pain in silence, i have young neices that go to the mosque and i always talk to them to see if they are ok.
If anything did ever happen to them they would not tell their parents because these so called imams are held higher than their own children. BUT ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO NEED TO UDERSTAND IT IS GOING ON, AND IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE IT IS NOT THEN YOU SERIOUSLY NEED TO WAKE UP!
That said my solution to the problem.
1. Set up independent monitoring of all mosques, set up a hotline to report any concerns.
2. All mosques should have CCTV backed up remotely.(not expensive)
3. All mosque staff vetted and cleared. (again very simple to do)
I have a massive list but you get the point, the question where the money will come from thats directly from the mosques and donations. IF THE COMMUNITY ARE SERIOUS TO PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN IT WILL BE WELL WORTH IT. THIS MAY NOT STOP ALL ABUSE BUT WE MUST TRY.Imran786

The Quran verse 2:221 clearly prohibits a muslim woman from marrying a non-muslim. Therefore,in stopping the young lady from seeing ,and potentially marrying, the young Sikh man,this girl's family were being good muslims,since they were acting in accordance with Islamic principles.

"Islam considers the husband head-of-the-family and therefore
requires that a Muslima cannot marry a non-Muslim because she
will be under the authority of a non-muslim husband. He may
prevent her from carrying out her religious obligations by
either pressuring her or physically abusing her. But it is not
the sole reason for imposing the restriction. The situation is
considered very damaging for the woman to practise Islam
afterwards and even worse for the kids in such marriages. There
are NO conditions mentioned under which a Muslim woman IS
allowed to get married or remain married to a non-Muslim husband
after she has accepted Islam. Therefore, even if she has freedom
to practise Islam after marriage, she is NOT allowed to enter
into an inter-faith marriage."

http://www.jannah.or
g/sisters/intermarri
age.html

The Quran verse 2:221 clearly prohibits a muslim woman from marrying a non-muslim. Therefore,in stopping the young lady from seeing ,and potentially marrying, the young Sikh man,this girl's family were being good muslims,since they were acting in accordance with Islamic principles.
"Islam considers the husband head-of-the-family and therefore
requires that a Muslima cannot marry a non-Muslim because she
will be under the authority of a non-muslim husband. He may
prevent her from carrying out her religious obligations by
either pressuring her or physically abusing her. But it is not
the sole reason for imposing the restriction. The situation is
considered very damaging for the woman to practise Islam
afterwards and even worse for the kids in such marriages. There
are NO conditions mentioned under which a Muslim woman IS
allowed to get married or remain married to a non-Muslim husband
after she has accepted Islam. Therefore, even if she has freedom
to practise Islam after marriage, she is NOT allowed to enter
into an inter-faith marriage."
http://www.jannah.or
g/sisters/intermarri
age.htmlfriendlykamustaka

friendlykamustaka wrote:
The Quran verse 2:221 clearly prohibits a muslim woman from marrying a non-muslim. Therefore,in stopping the young lady from seeing ,and potentially marrying, the young Sikh man,this girl's family were being good muslims,since they were acting in accordance with Islamic principles.

&quot;Islam considers the husband head-of-the-family and therefore
requires that a Muslima cannot marry a non-Muslim because she
will be under the authority of a non-muslim husband. He may
prevent her from carrying out her religious obligations by
either pressuring her or physically abusing her. But it is not
the sole reason for imposing the restriction. The situation is
considered very damaging for the woman to practise Islam
afterwards and even worse for the kids in such marriages. There
are NO conditions mentioned under which a Muslim woman IS
allowed to get married or remain married to a non-Muslim husband
after she has accepted Islam. Therefore, even if she has freedom
to practise Islam after marriage, she is NOT allowed to enter
into an inter-faith marriage."

http://www.jannah.or

g/sisters/intermarri

age.html

Please brother this is not about her marrying a non muslim.
YOU ARE SKIRTING OVER THE ISSUE.........
I understand what you are saying, now please quote a verse from our quran that allows the people we trust to abuse our children, there isnt a verse why because anyone in their right mind knows its wrong.
We as muslims have to protect our children so they grow up with good morals and respect. When the people we send them to abuse them in the name of islam that is wrong in everyway.
We cannot judge this lady she has tried to get help from the people she trusted and didnt, so she turned away from islam, the abuse she suffered was directly the reason sorry im assumming but by reading this article its clear.

[quote][p][bold]friendlykamustaka[/bold] wrote:
The Quran verse 2:221 clearly prohibits a muslim woman from marrying a non-muslim. Therefore,in stopping the young lady from seeing ,and potentially marrying, the young Sikh man,this girl's family were being good muslims,since they were acting in accordance with Islamic principles.
"Islam considers the husband head-of-the-family and therefore
requires that a Muslima cannot marry a non-Muslim because she
will be under the authority of a non-muslim husband. He may
prevent her from carrying out her religious obligations by
either pressuring her or physically abusing her. But it is not
the sole reason for imposing the restriction. The situation is
considered very damaging for the woman to practise Islam
afterwards and even worse for the kids in such marriages. There
are NO conditions mentioned under which a Muslim woman IS
allowed to get married or remain married to a non-Muslim husband
after she has accepted Islam. Therefore, even if she has freedom
to practise Islam after marriage, she is NOT allowed to enter
into an inter-faith marriage."
http://www.jannah.or
g/sisters/intermarri
age.html[/p][/quote]Please brother this is not about her marrying a non muslim.
YOU ARE SKIRTING OVER THE ISSUE.........
I understand what you are saying, now please quote a verse from our quran that allows the people we trust to abuse our children, there isnt a verse why because anyone in their right mind knows its wrong.
We as muslims have to protect our children so they grow up with good morals and respect. When the people we send them to abuse them in the name of islam that is wrong in everyway.
We cannot judge this lady she has tried to get help from the people she trusted and didnt, so she turned away from islam, the abuse she suffered was directly the reason sorry im assumming but by reading this article its clear.Imran786

We as muslims are 1 single ummah maybe spilt into how many names/sects due to history, but we are muslims. We believe in 1 allah with no partners and our prophet Mohammed PBUH as the final messenger of allah.
As muslims anything said aginst us we go into protective mode, but sometimes we have to face upto the real issues. Inshallah we can deal with them if we try to cover them up allah knows all and on the day of judgement we will not be able to hide what we thought. There has been alot of publicty regarding imams and abuse our responsibility as mulims is to PROTECT our ummah not deny what is going on under our noses and brush it under the carpet.
This lady has been abused and she has turned away from islam, due to 1 imam and there is no place for abusers in islam, if we know there is issues no matter how small we should address them and deal with them. Otherwise there will be alot more young girls turning away from islam.

We as muslims are 1 single ummah maybe spilt into how many names/sects due to history, but we are muslims. We believe in 1 allah with no partners and our prophet Mohammed PBUH as the final messenger of allah.
As muslims anything said aginst us we go into protective mode, but sometimes we have to face upto the real issues. Inshallah we can deal with them if we try to cover them up allah knows all and on the day of judgement we will not be able to hide what we thought. There has been alot of publicty regarding imams and abuse our responsibility as mulims is to PROTECT our ummah not deny what is going on under our noses and brush it under the carpet.
This lady has been abused and she has turned away from islam, due to 1 imam and there is no place for abusers in islam, if we know there is issues no matter how small we should address them and deal with them. Otherwise there will be alot more young girls turning away from islam.Imran786

Well the whole of the middle section of the article is about her family life,so I'm not sure how you can say "it's not about her marrying a non-muslim". That's one of the things she mentions. Her family's attitude could well be a reason why she has left the religion.

You then come to the question of abuse.Do you agree that young boys should be beaten and forced to pray?

Abu Dawud Book 2, Number 0495:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Command your children to pray when they become seven years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become ten years old; and arrange their beds (to sleep) separately.

Well the whole of the middle section of the article is about her family life,so I'm not sure how you can say "it's not about her marrying a non-muslim". That's one of the things she mentions. Her family's attitude could well be a reason why she has left the religion.
You then come to the question of abuse.Do you agree that young boys should be beaten and forced to pray?
Abu Dawud Book 2, Number 0495:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Command your children to pray when they become seven years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become ten years old; and arrange their beds (to sleep) separately.
P.S. Please don't call me "brother". That's extremely presumptuous.....friendlykamustaka

presumptuous...in islam everyone is you brother or sister thats out of respect.
I think your missing the point.

You seen to have alot of knowledge of islam.

Quick question do you beleive we have to protect our children?

presumptuous...in islam everyone is you brother or sister thats out of respect.
I think your missing the point.
You seen to have alot of knowledge of islam.
Quick question do you beleive we have to protect our children?Imran786

Imran786 wrote:
presumptuous...in islam everyone is you brother or sister thats out of respect.
I think your missing the point.

You seen to have alot of knowledge of islam.

Quick question do you beleive we have to protect our children?

"...in islam everyone is you brother or sister thats out of respect."

Who is "everyone"?

Since when did Islam start respecting non-muslims?

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

Muhammad said:"If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them..."

(Muslim 19:4294)

Perhaps your definition of "respect" differs from everyone else's..

You then ask a no-brainer ("should we protect our children"),which goes without saying.EVERYONE should.

I notice you have avoided the hadith about Muhammad recommending that young boys should be beaten Perhaps you would prefer muslims not to know about it...

[quote][p][bold]Imran786[/bold] wrote:
presumptuous...in islam everyone is you brother or sister thats out of respect.
I think your missing the point.
You seen to have alot of knowledge of islam.
Quick question do you beleive we have to protect our children?[/p][/quote]"...in islam everyone is you brother or sister thats out of respect."
Who is "everyone"?
Since when did Islam start respecting non-muslims?
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29
Muhammad said:"If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them..."
(Muslim 19:4294)
Perhaps your definition of "respect" differs from everyone else's..
You then ask a no-brainer ("should we protect our children"),which goes without saying.EVERYONE should.
I notice you have avoided the hadith about Muhammad recommending that young boys should be beaten Perhaps you would prefer muslims not to know about it...
If your views on abuse are correct, how do you explain this:
http://www.guardian.
co.uk/commentisfree/
2010/apr/25/middle-e
ast-child-abuse-pede
rastyfriendlykamustaka

To kamustaka:
.
1 - Yes, Islam forbids a Muslim female marrying a non Muslim. But re-read the article again, it's clear her family did not show a good example of Islam to her. Where she says her brothers had girlfriends (which is forbidden in Islam), her family watched bollywood (again unIslamic due to the nature of the content), and her family blamed her for her dad's death when Muslims believe God gives life and death.
.
2 - You've misinterpreted the Prophetic saying of 'beating children'. First, children should be mildly disciplined if they don't do good actions, prayer is one of them. Why are many children in the UK now in violent gangs starting from the age of 10? It's because the laws make it hard to discipline children, yet children are given free reign to be violent in the streets and carry knives? Do a reality check, the young generation is getting worse and worse because of a lack of discipline. Islam provides excellent manners to treat children in the best of ways so they are healthy adults, yet discipline is sometimes needed. All civilizations throughout history have used discipline.
.
3 - Your quotes on saying that Muslims are hating non Muslims based on verses is quite ironic. Considering the majority of wars being waged by forces throughout the world are against Muslims who are helpless. Ranging from Gaza (Palestine), to Afghanistan, to Uyghur (China), and many others (with thousands of civilians in Muslim lands being killed within this decade alone, yet we don't hear a squeak). Muslims are being foretold in the Quran that there will be a constant conflict, and the world we see today is a proof of this Quranic reality.

To kamustaka:
.
1 - Yes, Islam forbids a Muslim female marrying a non Muslim. But re-read the article again, it's clear her family did not show a good example of Islam to her. Where she says her brothers had girlfriends (which is forbidden in Islam), her family watched bollywood (again unIslamic due to the nature of the content), and her family blamed her for her dad's death when Muslims believe God gives life and death.
.
2 - You've misinterpreted the Prophetic saying of 'beating children'. First, children should be mildly disciplined if they don't do good actions, prayer is one of them. Why are many children in the UK now in violent gangs starting from the age of 10? It's because the laws make it hard to discipline children, yet children are given free reign to be violent in the streets and carry knives? Do a reality check, the young generation is getting worse and worse because of a lack of discipline. Islam provides excellent manners to treat children in the best of ways so they are healthy adults, yet discipline is sometimes needed. All civilizations throughout history have used discipline.
.
3 - Your quotes on saying that Muslims are hating non Muslims based on verses is quite ironic. Considering the majority of wars being waged by forces throughout the world are against Muslims who are helpless. Ranging from Gaza (Palestine), to Afghanistan, to Uyghur (China), and many others (with thousands of civilians in Muslim lands being killed within this decade alone, yet we don't hear a squeak). Muslims are being foretold in the Quran that there will be a constant conflict, and the world we see today is a proof of this Quranic reality.Muslim

Muslim wrote:
To kamustaka:
.
1 - Yes, Islam forbids a Muslim female marrying a non Muslim. But re-read the article again, it's clear her family did not show a good example of Islam to her. Where she says her brothers had girlfriends (which is forbidden in Islam), her family watched bollywood (again unIslamic due to the nature of the content), and her family blamed her for her dad's death when Muslims believe God gives life and death.
.
2 - You've misinterpreted the Prophetic saying of 'beating children'. First, children should be mildly disciplined if they don't do good actions, prayer is one of them. Why are many children in the UK now in violent gangs starting from the age of 10? It's because the laws make it hard to discipline children, yet children are given free reign to be violent in the streets and carry knives? Do a reality check, the young generation is getting worse and worse because of a lack of discipline. Islam provides excellent manners to treat children in the best of ways so they are healthy adults, yet discipline is sometimes needed. All civilizations throughout history have used discipline.
.
3 - Your quotes on saying that Muslims are hating non Muslims based on verses is quite ironic. Considering the majority of wars being waged by forces throughout the world are against Muslims who are helpless. Ranging from Gaza (Palestine), to Afghanistan, to Uyghur (China), and many others (with thousands of civilians in Muslim lands being killed within this decade alone, yet we don't hear a squeak). Muslims are being foretold in the Quran that there will be a constant conflict, and the world we see today is a proof of this Quranic reality.

Clearly Imran your knowledge of the History of Islam is quite woeful. But this is my experience of having to educate muslims about their own religion. Are they in denial or simply ignorant? Perhaps you know the answer to that.......

Unfortunately,muslim
s still believe in the myth that Muhammad was the one who was being attacked. Anyone who has studied Islam impartially will tell you otherwise. How else do you explain his attack on the unarmed inhabitants of Khaybar.

"We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw Muhammad, they said: "Muhammad with his force," and turned tail and fled".

http://realmuhammad.
info/Khaybar.html

Khaybar is slaughter still celebrated by muslims today:

https://www.youtube.
com/watch?v=hXr9Crc_
RLc

But then the need for historical revisionism and self-deception is very strong among muslims:

[quote][p][bold]Muslim[/bold] wrote:
To kamustaka:
.
1 - Yes, Islam forbids a Muslim female marrying a non Muslim. But re-read the article again, it's clear her family did not show a good example of Islam to her. Where she says her brothers had girlfriends (which is forbidden in Islam), her family watched bollywood (again unIslamic due to the nature of the content), and her family blamed her for her dad's death when Muslims believe God gives life and death.
.
2 - You've misinterpreted the Prophetic saying of 'beating children'. First, children should be mildly disciplined if they don't do good actions, prayer is one of them. Why are many children in the UK now in violent gangs starting from the age of 10? It's because the laws make it hard to discipline children, yet children are given free reign to be violent in the streets and carry knives? Do a reality check, the young generation is getting worse and worse because of a lack of discipline. Islam provides excellent manners to treat children in the best of ways so they are healthy adults, yet discipline is sometimes needed. All civilizations throughout history have used discipline.
.
3 - Your quotes on saying that Muslims are hating non Muslims based on verses is quite ironic. Considering the majority of wars being waged by forces throughout the world are against Muslims who are helpless. Ranging from Gaza (Palestine), to Afghanistan, to Uyghur (China), and many others (with thousands of civilians in Muslim lands being killed within this decade alone, yet we don't hear a squeak). Muslims are being foretold in the Quran that there will be a constant conflict, and the world we see today is a proof of this Quranic reality.[/p][/quote]Clearly Imran your knowledge of the History of Islam is quite woeful. But this is my experience of having to educate muslims about their own religion. Are they in denial or simply ignorant? Perhaps you know the answer to that.......
Unfortunately,muslim
s still believe in the myth that Muhammad was the one who was being attacked. Anyone who has studied Islam impartially will tell you otherwise. How else do you explain his attack on the unarmed inhabitants of Khaybar.
"We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw Muhammad, they said: "Muhammad with his force," and turned tail and fled".
http://realmuhammad.
info/Khaybar.html
Khaybar is slaughter still celebrated by muslims today:
https://www.youtube.
com/watch?v=hXr9Crc_
RLc
But then the need for historical revisionism and self-deception is very strong among muslims:
http://www.raymondib
rahim.com/9465/were-
conquered-christians
-really-liberated-mu
slims
Do yourself a favour Imran,and learn about the violent history of Islam.
http://www.islam-wat
ch.org/index.php?opt
ion=com_content&view
=article&id=749:new-
edition-of-islamic-j
ihad-a-legacy-of-for
ced-conversion-imper
ialism-and-slavery&c
atid=65:khan&Itemid=
58friendlykamustaka

kamustaka, your ignorance mixed with arrogance astounds me. Do you know who the people of Khaybar were? They were the same people who had backstabbed the Muslims of Madinah by attempting to assassinate Muhammad, the Messenger of God (peace be upon him.) Yet still, instead of getting the same punishment, they were exiled out of Madinah to Khaybar, and guess what? Instead of being grateful for not being punished like-for-like, they campaigned a war against the Muslims who they previously had a treaty with, this war was known as the battle of Ahzab (the Confederates.)
.
IslamReligion dot com is a good starting point if you're really sincere in wanting to find out who Muhammad is.
.
He is the man about who La Martine said:
.
“Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?”
.
(Histoire de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol II, pp. 276-77)

kamustaka, your ignorance mixed with arrogance astounds me. Do you know who the people of Khaybar were? They were the same people who had backstabbed the Muslims of Madinah by attempting to assassinate Muhammad, the Messenger of God (peace be upon him.) Yet still, instead of getting the same punishment, they were exiled out of Madinah to Khaybar, and guess what? Instead of being grateful for not being punished like-for-like, they campaigned a war against the Muslims who they previously had a treaty with, this war was known as the battle of Ahzab (the Confederates.)
.
IslamReligion dot com is a good starting point if you're really sincere in wanting to find out who Muhammad is.
.
He is the man about who La Martine said:
.
“Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?”
.
(Histoire de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol II, pp. 276-77)Muslim

You accuse me,who has read three biographies of Muhammad of being "ignorant",when it is I who has actually had to point out things to muslims that they weren't even aware of. Two examples....

1.That Muhammad himself broke the treaty of Hudaybiya, as I pointed out here(note no muslim was able to counter me):

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/dna/mbreligion/NF22
13236?thread=7369874

2.That Muhammad hit his very young wife:

" I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?"

(Sahih Muslim Book 4 No. 2127)

It is always the case when I discuss with muslims that what they offer to back up their view is nothing more than opinion. For example your "Muhammad is the messenger of God" is merely an opinion. Furthermore, it is an opinion that more and more muslims are challenging:

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=FPrdg0aOy
i0&feature=related

I,on the other hand,offer evidence from Islamic texts,to back up my views. And you accuse me of "ignorance"....Hilar
ious.....but I look forward to your next post......

Your posts are becoming more and more desperate,Imran.
You accuse me,who has read three biographies of Muhammad of being "ignorant",when it is I who has actually had to point out things to muslims that they weren't even aware of. Two examples....
1.That Muhammad himself broke the treaty of Hudaybiya, as I pointed out here(note no muslim was able to counter me):
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/dna/mbreligion/NF22
13236?thread=7369874
2.That Muhammad hit his very young wife:
" I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?"
(Sahih Muslim Book 4 No. 2127)
It is always the case when I discuss with muslims that what they offer to back up their view is nothing more than opinion. For example your "Muhammad is the messenger of God" is merely an opinion. Furthermore, it is an opinion that more and more muslims are challenging:
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=FPrdg0aOy
i0&feature=related
I,on the other hand,offer evidence from Islamic texts,to back up my views. And you accuse me of "ignorance"....Hilar
ious.....but I look forward to your next post......friendlykamustaka

1 - The BBC website is not a credible biography of Muhammad (peace be upon him). And he did not break the Hudaybia treaty,
If a covenant says that you will return the males (Rijaal) back to Makkah if they flee to Madinah, then we see that Umm Kulthum is not a male, she is a woman. This means that even if she flees to Madinah, the covenant has not been broken. Infact it was the pagan Quraysh Makkans who broke the covenant when they supported Banu Bakr (a Quraysh ally) against the Khuzaa'ah who were allies with the Muslim Madinans. So it is the Makkans who broke the Treaty of Hudaybiah, and this is why Abu Sufyan was the one who fled to Madinah to renew the Hudaybiah contract.
If you don't know what this means, then please study the biography of Muhammad (peace be upon him.)
.
.
2 - I don't encourage you to pull out all the anti-Islamic arguments against Islam, because it shows a lack of professionalism. If this persists in future posts, I might just have to post links. To answer the questions:
2a - Aisha herself said that he did not hit her.
Tafsir ibn Kathir, of surah al Qalam quotes Aisha as saying:
.
`A'ishah said,"The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, NOR DID HE EVER HIT A WOMAN. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah.
.
Furthermore the statement you quote of Aisha uses the word: لهدني (lahda) - which means 'pushing with a full hand' as a means of teaching. This is supported by the saying of Aisha above that he never hit any woman.
.
.
3 - He is the Messenger of God, there are plenty of Prophecies to prove this. Infact, one Prophecy which is coming true within this decade is his saying:
.
"The Hour (of Judgment Day) will not approach until the desert Arab shepherds compete with each other in constructing tall buildings." (Sahih al Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 237)
.
The Burj al Arab is the tallest building in the world (in the United Arab Emirates), built by a man (Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum) who was a desert camel shepherd in his childhood. Exactly as Prophecised over 1,400years ago by Muhammad, the Messenger of God (peace be upon him.)
.
More Prophecies can be found here:
http://www.islamreli
gion.com/articles/37
9/
.
.
I hope this response will open your eyes to the truthfulness of Islam.
.

1 - The BBC website is not a credible biography of Muhammad (peace be upon him). And he did not break the Hudaybia treaty,
If a covenant says that you will return the males (Rijaal) back to Makkah if they flee to Madinah, then we see that Umm Kulthum is not a male, she is a woman. This means that even if she flees to Madinah, the covenant has not been broken. Infact it was the pagan Quraysh Makkans who broke the covenant when they supported Banu Bakr (a Quraysh ally) against the Khuzaa'ah who were allies with the Muslim Madinans. So it is the Makkans who broke the Treaty of Hudaybiah, and this is why Abu Sufyan was the one who fled to Madinah to renew the Hudaybiah contract.
If you don't know what this means, then please study the biography of Muhammad (peace be upon him.)
.
.
2 - I don't encourage you to pull out all the anti-Islamic arguments against Islam, because it shows a lack of professionalism. If this persists in future posts, I might just have to post links. To answer the questions:
2a - Aisha herself said that he did not hit her.
Tafsir ibn Kathir, of surah al Qalam quotes Aisha as saying:
.
`A'ishah said,"The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, NOR DID HE EVER HIT A WOMAN. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah.
.
Furthermore the statement you quote of Aisha uses the word: لهدني (lahda) - which means 'pushing with a full hand' as a means of teaching. This is supported by the saying of Aisha above that he never hit any woman.
.
.
3 - He is the Messenger of God, there are plenty of Prophecies to prove this. Infact, one Prophecy which is coming true within this decade is his saying:
.
"The Hour (of Judgment Day) will not approach until the desert Arab shepherds compete with each other in constructing tall buildings." (Sahih al Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 237)
.
The Burj al Arab is the tallest building in the world (in the United Arab Emirates), built by a man (Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum) who was a desert camel shepherd in his childhood. Exactly as Prophecised over 1,400years ago by Muhammad, the Messenger of God (peace be upon him.)
.
More Prophecies can be found here:
http://www.islamreli
gion.com/articles/37
9/
.
.
I hope this response will open your eyes to the truthfulness of Islam.
.Muslim

Thank you for your post. However it contains the same false logic that is always present when debating facts with muslims. So.......

"..The BBC website is not a credible biography of Muhammad (peace be upon him)."

I never said it was. The debate concerning Hudaybiya is on the thread.Now you claim that the covenant only covered males, when the covenant says "anyONE who....."

If you are right and I am wrong,how do you explain the fact that,out of the three biographies I've read,two of them agree that Muhammad did indeed break the treaty? And one of those that agrees that he did was written by a muslim convert?

3. I'm delighted you picked up on the subject of prophecies. This is yet another area where I have been able to point to hadith which my muslim friends were completely unaware of.

Belief returns and goes back to Medina like a snake(Sahih Bukhari, 3.30.100)

There will be no trace of Islam in some believers(Sahih Bukhari, 9.84.65)

Islam was initiated as something strange, and it would revert to its (old position) of being strange, and it would concentrate between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole(Sahih Muslim, 1.0270)

The Islamic faith will recede to Medina just as the serpent crawls into its hole(Sahih Muslim, 1.0271, 0272)

Muslims will diminish in number and they will go back to where they started(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 2.19.3029)

Muslims will be the scum and the rubbish even though their numbers may increase; the enemy will not fear Muslims anymore. This will be because the Muslims will love world and dislike death(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 37.4284)

Muhammad’s contemporaries were the best Muslims; after three generations, the Muslims will be mainly treacherous and untrustworthy(Sahih Bukhari, 5.57.2, 3) ......

There's a few to be going on with. Presumably you think all these prophecies will come true........

Hello Muslim,
Thank you for your post. However it contains the same false logic that is always present when debating facts with muslims. So.......
"..The BBC website is not a credible biography of Muhammad (peace be upon him)."
I never said it was. The debate concerning Hudaybiya is on the thread.Now you claim that the covenant only covered males, when the covenant says "anyONE who....."
If you are right and I am wrong,how do you explain the fact that,out of the three biographies I've read,two of them agree that Muhammad did indeed break the treaty? And one of those that agrees that he did was written by a muslim convert?
http://www.amazon.co
m/Life-Work-Muhammad
-Critical-Lives/dp/0
028643712
2."I don't encourage you to pull out all the anti-Islamic arguments against Islam, because it shows a lack of professionalism. If this persists in future posts, I might just have to post links...."
Not sure what that's all about.Post as many links as you like. You're free to do so in the West,unlike some Islamic Paradise:
http://www.indianexp
ress.com/news/man-ac
cused-of-blasphemy-k
illed-in-pakistan/71
3003/
3. I'm delighted you picked up on the subject of prophecies. This is yet another area where I have been able to point to hadith which my muslim friends were completely unaware of.
Belief returns and goes back to Medina like a snake(Sahih Bukhari, 3.30.100)
There will be no trace of Islam in some believers(Sahih Bukhari, 9.84.65)
Islam was initiated as something strange, and it would revert to its (old position) of being strange, and it would concentrate between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole(Sahih Muslim, 1.0270)
The Islamic faith will recede to Medina just as the serpent crawls into its hole(Sahih Muslim, 1.0271, 0272)
Muslims will diminish in number and they will go back to where they started(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 2.19.3029)
Muslims will be the scum and the rubbish even though their numbers may increase; the enemy will not fear Muslims anymore. This will be because the Muslims will love world and dislike death(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 37.4284)
Muhammad’s contemporaries were the best Muslims; after three generations, the Muslims will be mainly treacherous and untrustworthy(Sahih Bukhari, 5.57.2, 3) ......
There's a few to be going on with. Presumably you think all these prophecies will come true........friendlykamustaka

There is no false logic, it is straightforward info.
.
The word in Arabic is 'Rijaal' which means 'Men'. That was the word used in the Covenant of Hudaybiah. You will have to learn arabic to know that Rijaal = Men.
.
In regard to you doubting whether Muhammad (peace be upon him) broke the covenant, then you are unaware of Abu Sufyan (the leader of the Makkans of Quraysh) who went to Madinah to renew the contract after Quraysh and their ally Banu Bakr had broken it. Why would classical authentic references mention Abu Sufyan approaching the Muslims to renew the contract if he was not at fault?
.
.
2 - Heard of treason? Muslims aren't the only ones who give death penalty for it. Even the USA does it.
.
.
3 - The Prophecies you mention are referring to the times approaching the extreme end times. It is known that such Prophecies do not apply today because there is alot of research which proves that Islam is the fastest growing religion within Europe, and even in other parts of the world.
.
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
1343954/100-000-Isla
m-converts-living-UK
-White-women-keen-em
brace-Muslim-faith.h
tml
.
Furthermore, if you quote the Prophecies as being true (the ones I quoted all prove he truly was taught by God, and you have not objected to their accuracy), then you admit he really is a Messenger of God.

There is no false logic, it is straightforward info.
.
The word in Arabic is 'Rijaal' which means 'Men'. That was the word used in the Covenant of Hudaybiah. You will have to learn arabic to know that Rijaal = Men.
.
In regard to you doubting whether Muhammad (peace be upon him) broke the covenant, then you are unaware of Abu Sufyan (the leader of the Makkans of Quraysh) who went to Madinah to renew the contract after Quraysh and their ally Banu Bakr had broken it. Why would classical authentic references mention Abu Sufyan approaching the Muslims to renew the contract if he was not at fault?
.
.
2 - Heard of treason? Muslims aren't the only ones who give death penalty for it. Even the USA does it.
.
.
3 - The Prophecies you mention are referring to the times approaching the extreme end times. It is known that such Prophecies do not apply today because there is alot of research which proves that Islam is the fastest growing religion within Europe, and even in other parts of the world.
.
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
1343954/100-000-Isla
m-converts-living-UK
-White-women-keen-em
brace-Muslim-faith.h
tml
.
Furthermore, if you quote the Prophecies as being true (the ones I quoted all prove he truly was taught by God, and you have not objected to their accuracy), then you admit he really is a Messenger of God.Muslim

If you want extensive discussions, you can join us at: IslamicBoard dot com, it's fair to have discussions in a more spacious and suitable environment instead of on a comment section of an article on a e-newspaper.
.
Look forward to meeting you there :)
.

If you want extensive discussions, you can join us at: IslamicBoard dot com, it's fair to have discussions in a more spacious and suitable environment instead of on a comment section of an article on a e-newspaper.
.
Look forward to meeting you there :)
.Muslim

Thanks for the post.
1.You're still trying to claim that the covenant agreed at Hudaybiya specifies that it concerns only 'men'. I've checked the hadith again and it says "anyone"(i.e. it includes women):

"...the Prophet should return to them (i.e. the pagans) ANYONE coming to him from their side......"

If you're saying that it stipulated only men,you're saying that THIS HADITH IS INCORRECT,in which case you might wish to raise the matter with a cleric. Best of luck with that !

2. Nope. Still don't know what you're on about. Treason?

3. "Prophecies do not apply today..."

How convenient. That means anything that doesn't look like coming true can be delayed till the "end times"....However,I think some of them are coming true now,but I don't think you need to be a prophet to predict what might happen.
You then waffle on about how well Islam is doing,when muslims in the UK are either not practicing it or leaving it completely. And if it is doing so well,how do you account for articles like these...written by muslims?

There will be much killing during the last days of the Muslims…(Sahih Bukhari, 9.88.183)

And here are a few excerpts from al Ghazali:

Muhammad said Islam began with a few and will soon return to a few as it began. The few of those true Muslims are those who follow to purify Muhammad’s sunnah and follow strictly his traditions…(Ihya Ulum al Din by Ghazali, Tr. Fazl-ul-Karim. First edition. Darul Ishat, Karachi, 1993. p.1.49).

Muhammad said, “The wealth of a Muslim in near future will be goats and sheep. He will roam in caves of hillocks and places of water. He will shift from one place to another with his religion and calamities.”…(ib
id, p.2.142)

Muhammad said, “In near future such a time will come upon man when it will be difficult to save his religion. To save religion he will flee away like a jacket from one cave to another and from one hillock to another.”…(ibid)

Hi Muslim,
Thanks for the post.
1.You're still trying to claim that the covenant agreed at Hudaybiya specifies that it concerns only 'men'. I've checked the hadith again and it says "anyone"(i.e. it includes women):
"...the Prophet should return to them (i.e. the pagans) ANYONE coming to him from their side......"
http://www.cmje.org/
religious-texts/hadi
th/bukhari/050-sbt.p
hp#003.050.874
If you're saying that it stipulated only men,you're saying that THIS HADITH IS INCORRECT,in which case you might wish to raise the matter with a cleric. Best of luck with that !
2. Nope. Still don't know what you're on about. Treason?
3. "Prophecies do not apply today..."
How convenient. That means anything that doesn't look like coming true can be delayed till the "end times"....However,I think some of them are coming true now,but I don't think you need to be a prophet to predict what might happen.
You then waffle on about how well Islam is doing,when muslims in the UK are either not practicing it or leaving it completely. And if it is doing so well,how do you account for articles like these...written by muslims?
http://www.theglobal
ist.com/storyid.aspx
?StoryId=8696
http://www.dailytime
s.com.pk/default.asp
?page=2010%5C12%5C15
%5Cstory_15-12-2010_
pg3_3
http://www.noora1.co
m/condition_of_the_u
mmah.htm
Here's a few more 'prophecies' to be going on with:
There will be much killing during the last days of the Muslims…(Sahih Bukhari, 9.88.183)
And here are a few excerpts from al Ghazali:
Muhammad said Islam began with a few and will soon return to a few as it began. The few of those true Muslims are those who follow to purify Muhammad’s sunnah and follow strictly his traditions…(Ihya Ulum al Din by Ghazali, Tr. Fazl-ul-Karim. First edition. Darul Ishat, Karachi, 1993. p.1.49).
Muhammad said, “The wealth of a Muslim in near future will be goats and sheep. He will roam in caves of hillocks and places of water. He will shift from one place to another with his religion and calamities.”…(ib
id, p.2.142)
Muhammad said, “In near future such a time will come upon man when it will be difficult to save his religion. To save religion he will flee away like a jacket from one cave to another and from one hillock to another.”…(ibid)friendlykamustaka

أن يرد المسلمون من يأتيهم من قريش مسلما بدون إذن وليه, وألا ترد قريش من يعود إليها من المسلمين.
That you return the Muslim MALES who escape from Quraysh back to Quraysh (in Makkah)...
.
MuslimOON = Muslim MALES (Plural). MuslimAAT = Muslim FEMALES.
.
This means that if any MuslimOON (Male Muslims) flee to Madinah, they should be returned back to Makkah. There is no mention of MuslimAAT (Muslim Females) having to be returned back to Makkah. Umm Kulthum is from the MuslimAAT (muslim FEMALES), so she does not have to be returned back to Makkah. In conclusion: Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not break the covenant of Hudaybiah, because God commands us to keep our covenants.
.
If you don't trust me, ask any Arab. Or simply study Arabic yourself.
.
.
In regard to your point against Prophecies, aren't you amazed at the accuracy of what Muhammad (peace be upon him) said about events which are happening now, 1 thousand 4 hundred years after his passing away? And the ones I linked you to earlier? Even some of the ones you quote actually support the case of his Prophethood, so that's even more encouraging. :)

About Hudaybiah, I'll quote you the Arabic text:
أن يرد المسلمون من يأتيهم من قريش مسلما بدون إذن وليه, وألا ترد قريش من يعود إليها من المسلمين.
That you return the Muslim MALES [MuslimOON] who escape from Quraysh back to Quraysh (in Makkah)...
.
MuslimOON = Muslim MALES (Plural). MuslimAAT = Muslim FEMALES.
.
This means that if any MuslimOON (Male Muslims) flee to Madinah, they should be returned back to Makkah. There is no mention of MuslimAAT (Muslim Females) having to be returned back to Makkah. Umm Kulthum is from the MuslimAAT (muslim FEMALES), so she does not have to be returned back to Makkah. In conclusion: Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not break the covenant of Hudaybiah, because God commands us to keep our covenants.
.
If you don't trust me, ask any Arab. Or simply study Arabic yourself.
.
.
In regard to your point against Prophecies, aren't you amazed at the accuracy of what Muhammad (peace be upon him) said about events which are happening now, 1 thousand 4 hundred years after his passing away? And the ones I linked you to earlier? Even some of the ones you quote actually support the case of his Prophethood, so that's even more encouraging. :)Muslim

Thank you to all who have made comments on my article, I will keep it short and sweet untill you have been in my shoes then you may make such comments, MY story is about what happend to me and what i went through and what i am still going through.
It is not about book sales but to break a silence and speak out.
I will continue to speak out load and clear for all to hear and will not stop untill changes are made.If you do not like this then dont read about it but do not make pathetic comments which you know nothing about!!!.
Thank you

Nabila Sharma

Thank you to all who have made comments on my article, I will keep it short and sweet untill you have been in my shoes then you may make such comments, MY story is about what happend to me and what i went through and what i am still going through.
It is not about book sales but to break a silence and speak out.
I will continue to speak out load and clear for all to hear and will not stop untill changes are made.If you do not like this then dont read about it but do not make pathetic comments which you know nothing about!!!.
Thank you
Nabila Sharmabrutal26

I think you two need to get a room. I'm sure you've completely forgotten the subject matter.
This girl was abused in a trusted place and her trust was misplaced and that's why the religion was lost along the way.
There was a great 3 step list written in one of the first comments and it made sence but it looks like you've gone off the subject now just to rant quotes at eachother.

I think you two need to get a room. I'm sure you've completely forgotten the subject matter.
This girl was abused in a trusted place and her trust was misplaced and that's why the religion was lost along the way.
There was a great 3 step list written in one of the first comments and it made sence but it looks like you've gone off the subject now just to rant quotes at eachother.GoraGora