I've been through the underground river a few times over the years. This time we had the kids so we only went into the second alcove to show them the glow.worms. Not long after coming out a fella walks down from the exit with two tourists, all clad in proper caving attire. He proceeds to rant:
a) it is "illegal" to go in there without a guide
b) people get lost and injured in there all the time
c) he personally has had to haul 3 people out over the past few months, one who was stuck in there for 2 days and will probably "nver walk again"
d) if we get stuck we'll be charged "8 grand" if he has to rescue us

Personally I would have responded a lot better to a few probing questions from this bloke such as: "have you been in a cave before", "have you been in this one before", "do you have a head torch", "the water is higher than normal", etc. As it was he just really p#ssed me off by ranting in front of the kids.

The signs did not state it was illegal and it hasn't been in the past to my knowledge. Obviously you need to be aware of water levels, take your time and avoid disturbng the glow worm colony. And we weren't planning to take the kids right through in any case.

So does anyone know the real story: is it illegal now without a guide? do they really have to drag injured tourists out on a regular basis?

Guides that suddenly take 'ownership' of something that people have been doing by themselves for decades (centuries? millenia?) is crap outcome for all. That cave always had public access when I lived in Victoria (5 years ago). It's probably the same guides with their own rap bolts padlocked on the south side of the gorge.

The notes for the Underground River on the Parks website say : "Note the Underground River Cave should not entered without an experienced guide and appropriate equipment".
Nothing about it being a restricted area.
Sounds like a classic bullshit artist big-noting for his clients.

I'd be curious as to how he manages to authorise charging for a rescue. If it's a normal rescue, it's free, well, bar ambulance bills. SES etc don't charge for their services, so how can a private operator barge in then demand payment? Unless you ask him for help and he says in advance he will do it if you pay him.

On 28/01/2014 shiltz wrote re another's rant which said:
(snip)>a) it is "illegal" to go in there without a guide>b) people get lost and injured in there all the time>c) he personally has had to haul 3 people out over the past few months,>one who was stuck in there for 2 days and will probably "nver walk again">d) if we get stuck we'll be charged "8 grand" if he has to rescue us>
(snip)>>The signs did not state it was illegal and it hasn't been in the past>to my knowledge. (snip).>>So does anyone know the real story: is it illegal now without a guide?> do they really have to drag injured tourists out on a regular basis?

This is a disappointing thread to read, as the bloke has been very helpful to climbers and others (injured base-jumper, supplying 200m static when required, etc), in need of 'rescue' in the past.

Re the rant points;
a) Not to my knowledge.
b) It has happened before, but quite infrequently. The last time was a couple of years back if I recall correctly. It made the local news and the individual was stuck for hours, not days.
c) I call bs on that claim.
d) This is inconsistent with his actions in the past.

On 28/01/2014 shiltz wrote:>We dropped by the parks office the next day but the ranger was out rangeing.> We wanted to check the story and find out what qualifications this guy>actually has... apart from a big mouth.

He / his company, have gone through the bureaucratic hoops presented by Parks Vic, to have the setup at Buffalo that they have, and to do the other things they do elsewhere in the State.

I personally find his kind-of-monopoly at Buffalo a curious arrangement, and the two upgrades to the lookout adjacent his padlocked bolts to keep the tourons out, would likely have been PV funded(?), and thus aiding & abetting his arrangement?

Fall over. Get him to carry you out.
The bill?
Fraud - financial advantage by deception
I implore everyone to ask for identification (if not in uniform) when anyone gives you this lip. Otherwise they persist and get more brazen.

On 28/01/2014 shiltz wrote:>I've been through the underground river a few times over the years. This>time we had the kids so we only went into the second alcove to show them>the glow.worms. Not long after coming out a fella walks down from the>exit with two tourists, all clad in proper caving attire. He proceeds>to rant:

He was worried his clients might realise that they were paying for a guide for an activity that other see as literally child's play!