I once had a wonderful LONG conversation with a guy talking French [which I can read but not speak], me talking English which he could read but not speak - because our minds meshed and we were both up to speed on the topic.

Russian - I can get a moderate way into connected prose on Linguistics or Archaeology, but short bursts on other subjects I need references.

The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain

Sadly, no. A semi-Western pub in westrern Equatorial Africa, filled with a mixed bag of more or less civilized and definitely clothed academics and other profession al / business types - we were guided there by a Brit journalist.

Though that IS the town I first encountered a topless beach.

The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain

I personally do not feel that nudity is a must. I greatly enjoy being nude whenever and where ever possible. However, I have friends who would never consider being nude in any way other than to take a bath or change quickly from one outfit to another. I do not think they are bad people just because they do not value the clothes freedom I enjoy. I do however wish the textile world would also grant me the same freedom, without judgment, to be nude if I wish without thinking I am a bad person or suffering from some mental deficiency.

Richardetnp77 wrote:I personally do not feel that nudity is a must. I greatly enjoy being nude whenever and where ever possible. However, I have friends who would never consider being nude in any way other than to take a bath or change quickly from one outfit to another. I do not think they are bad people just because they do not value the clothes freedom I enjoy. I do however wish the textile world would also grant me the same freedom, without judgment, to be nude if I wish without thinking I am a bad person or suffering from some mental deficiency.

Richard,

Some of the people who have been raised with "never be seen naked" are at the level of neurosis.If we had not evolved a society to accommodate that neurosis, the degree of their dysfunction would show itself more clearly.

I also sympathize with the kids who develop unhealthy obsessions with nudity of the opposite sex.Naturist kids have it so much easier in that regard. Christians try to raise their kids right, but most of them lack the tool of naturist upbringing that would help so many boys (and some girls) escape this.

Likewise, naturist culture helps affirm body image. Anorexic and bulimic people may develop their issues despite naturist upbringing, but our values can play a role in preventing it.

I agree that people with these burdens are not "bad people", but many of them live tragic unhappy lives because of how they were raised to feel about nudity, their bodies and sex.

And far too many people think that we naturists cannot be left in peace to live according to our beliefs.I do not find visiting any beach convenient to where I live, but just as an example, clothing-optional beaches are a tiny fraction of public beaches in the US, yet even these are under threat. Many parts of Europe have far more FKK or otherwise free beaches and it has not been the social menace that the nay sayers here claim on this side of the Atlantic.

To me, nude living and social nudity is a valuable tool to help us live a life that is rich and good.We could do without it, but I can't imagine giving up the freedom I have learned.

Seeing my mom and grandmother nude kept me from being so curious or obsessed with seeing the female form naked because it was a normal thing for me to see breast and pubic regions of a woman. I was able to date without needing to get the girl "naked." I did take my wife to a resort early in our dating because I wanted her to know the importance of nudity in my life and see how she would respond to it.

I just saw this documentary about a teenager raised in a nudist resort - it's really worth the watch, and gives us something to think about. What I got from it is, things aren't as "cut and dry" as we think. everyone is unique and a little bit complicated. The end of the documentary is especially enlightening, (if not disturbing)... comments? Beuhler? Beuhler?

Kiltedhiker wrote:I just saw this documentary about a teenager raised in a nudist resort - it's really worth the watch, and gives us something to think about. What I got from it is, things aren't as "cut and dry" as we think. everyone is unique and a little bit complicated. The end of the documentary is especially enlightening, (if not disturbing)... comments? Beuhler? Beuhler?

Sorry about that Ramblin'. This is a girl raised in a nudist resort owned by her parents in England. She entered puberty, put on some weight, and started having body issues. She opted to not go nude. The story is her discovery through visiting a number of different resorts both in England and abroad to see if she could in fact get past her issues

One of her issues was, "is there truly a separation from sex and nudity?" She interviews just one guy near the end of the documentary who tells her that he definitely has a sexual element in the reasons for his nudity. He is a young male probably in his early 20's. This discovery kind of derails her quest - when it seemed she was getting on track.C

What this said to me was, there is still an element of a sexual nature in some others in the population - this can't be avoided. Naturists do need to keep somewhat cautious in my opinion because even though the mantra is that the naturist community is all one big, friendly, bunch who only have the purist of intentions, the fact remains that naturists are truly just a cross-section of society, warts and all..

I think that nudity is best enthusiastically encouraged where people are gathered for that option, places for which also to be promoted, while still it being best that it is an option, short of making it a requirement. There are always better choices and the less desirable choices that some will still make, choices about nudity is one of many such for people. In the marketplace for ideas that there ideally should be, there should be the best promotion and presentation made for what is better, with that it can prevail, and with it bad ideas and choices can be minimized. This applies to what is healthier for people, what is better for the world, and what people need spiritually too.

Kiltedhiker wrote:One of her issues was, "is there truly a separation from sex and nudity?" She interviews just one guy near the end of the documentary who tells her that he definitely has a sexual element in the reasons for his nudity. He is a young male probably in his early 20's. This discovery kind of derails her quest - when it seemed she was getting on track.

Is there a separation from sex and life? I've been told (and experienced) that men have sexual thoughts far more frequently than women. At the mall. At church. At school. At work. Wherever, whenever. I would have to believe this is even more true for men who are not Christians and do not have the training that "impure" thoughts are bad, and the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Also, early 20s is prime marrying and baby-making time biologically. I would expect a young 20-something to do many things with a sexual element.

The interview part is at 45:00. If she was appalled by his admissions, I think she was looking for a reason to be appalled. She's bothered by fact that people people watch? That men look at women with a sexual eye?

I didn't watch the whole program, but the bit I did watch the narrator seemed a bit sheltered and naive. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it makes such a person a good judge of the human experience.

If that is an obstacle, so is the contemporary bikini clad beach, and the non-bikini swimming pool of my high school days, and the bathing beauties of the 20s, and the street in London in the 60s, and the guys in say 1910 hoping to spot a well-turned ankle - why go on?

People look. I have reliable data that suggest that the fair sex also looks [granted there are differences]. At least in a clothes-free venue those looking will exercise their imagination less and those gazed upon will not so much be designing to enhance or minimize.

The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain

My experience is that naturist camps and what not have a few whose bad behavior makes them unfit for mixed company, but arguably fewer than most public textile beaches.

Noticing attractive people is not entirely sexual. There is an aesthetic element to the human form, simple beauty and that is not confined to the young.

And I am not opposed to attraction between the sexes as long as that attraction is well-managed by oneself or if necessary, by others.

Some of these issues are self-regulating. If I make a drunken lunge at my neighbor's wife within the gates of a naturist venue, I will be quickly escorted out the door never to return again and quite often banned from other camps/resorts in the network.Word travels fast these days. If I am lucky my eviction will happen before said husband has a chance to punch me in the jaw.

If I make a fool of myself on a public beach, but manage to stay within the law, I could very well go back the next day to stir up trouble. So which place is more people friendly?

Are American textiles too uncomfortable with sex, even of the most innocent kind?Being a naturist does not require me to affirm that I have no sexual desires.The clubs only ask me to behave with courtesy (and I do).

I should say that it is not so much that the American textile is sex-obsessed > http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/03/ca ... x-as-rape/ < as that the politically dominant American prescriptivist and conformist [we used to make fun of them in Linguistics] is focussed on THE CODE, and that in this phase THE CODE has hit on heterosex as its safe issue.

We recall the period when every time anyone was under the weather it was disgnosed mononucleosis. The period when every boy who squirmed or twiddled his pencil in class was put on ritalin. When Cheerios yelled whoopee and proclaimed on the box - we got it oat bran.

THE CODE is fad driven. We have moved past the time when only people needing therapy and religious nuts had hangups about sex.

If that is a fair restatemet of the California proposals [I do not internd to wade through legislaion thed ledgislators do not bother reading] it is a very logical extension of the prescriptivist / conformist principle that if someone on the official list of people not to be offended can be persyaded to feel offended, then SOMEBODY offended that person.

The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain