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I was wondering if anybody else here thinks it's a good idea to have a backup plan just in case Americasdebate goes down. It's possible that Mike and Jamie will come back with further plans for AD because they're continuing to pay for the cost of the domain and thus far when the website has gone down, as it did a few days ago, they've worked to fix the problem but in the scenario that we do lose AD, we'd lose what's left of our debating community and some of us have debated here for over a decade. Personally, I've debated here since 2007, have gotten to know some of the members, and developed a lot of my debating skills here so from my perspective it'd be unfortunate to see that happen. AD is also an interesting concept in itself, I think America should have a dedicated spot to debate a range of issues, including with members of other nations when they find an interest.

As for what we'd plan to do if the website goes down, I'm open to any ideas. Perhaps we could think of a common place we'd meet in the scenario that the website goes down, or exchange contact information and figure that out at a later time, there's a number of things that we could do.

So the archangel Michael learns that Mesopotamia no longer exists, and he says: "Nothing stays the same."

Who knows, maybe now that people are becoming more aware of how bad social media is, they'll come back to the less free-wheeling idea of debate websites, formerly known as bulletin boards back in the 1980s and 90s, before the World Wide Web took over.

Or it might be something entirely different.

It did cross my mind that the broken database a little while back could have marked the end of AD.

My feeling is that it'll die or regain attention but not stay the same. I'm okay with that.

It seems to me that the glory days of debate boards are over, even though there is certainly no shortage of political fodder to debate. Problem is, I think, that the left and right are too far apart to have a meaningful, civil discussion these days. You are either fully against Trump, or you are an idiot. (I'm not immune to extreme opinions myself. )

I still visit a couple of debate boards on occasion, but those fields have all been plowed. It's the same people, over and over, and I could write their responses for them at this point. You need a large community with constant turnover to stay interested, especially if you have some interests that you like to push.

The longest thread we ever had here on AD was about MMT (the "most replied thread" on the intro page), and it attracted new members who came in just for the occasion. (I'm still in contact with a handful of them via Facebook, including Brinn.) Because of that thread, MMT and economics became my main interest, and that eventually morphed into a Facebook page with over 3000 members (Introduction to MMT, if anybody here is interested). It's a more focused way to discuss a topic, with (mostly) like-minded people. And to reach new people, I post on Quora. Both venues get me lots of looks, and they have counters to prove it. (Long ago, I suggested "like" buttons to Mike, to no avail.)

If AD is going to survive/thrive, we have to attract a LOT of new members. There is plenty to fight about with the Cheeto in power, and plenty of Cheeto fans, still, somehow... There's an important midterm election coming up... We just need new members. And I don't know how to do that. I wish I did.

It seems to me that the glory days of debate boards are over, even though there is certainly no shortage of political fodder to debate. Problem is, I think, that the left and right are too far apart to have a meaningful, civil discussion these days.

Yep. Most forums are becoming de facto echo chambers. I guess it's just the nature of humans (and social media). People feel more comfortable when their biases are confirmed rather than challenged. And no one wants to think of themselves as close minded, so they join a group that confirms their belief system but might allow the occasional outsider a couple of words so the majority can throw brick-bats at them, once again, confirming their strongly held belief system.

Hee hee...fun thread! I'd forgotten about that one. I've copied a few posts, myself, just in case....though nowhere near the number I'd like to keep. We've had so many great discussions over the years here. Great to see you, btw.

They say that history doesn't repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes. I wonder if the tendency to polarise will not blow itself out eventually, and we'll return to a more consensus debate style; i sense a yearning among the public for that, particularly among those who are broadly interested in news and politics but are switched off by the way most debate (online of real world) is conducted these days.

It either seems to be among members of the same polar group, enforcing ever-more-extreme homogeny to further narrow the already limited set of approved opinions (and using the likes of 'no platforming' to exclude all contrary views, however marginally they might differ). Or, where both ends of any given spectrum do meet, they stay as far away as possible while throwing verbal (or sometimes literal) bombs at one another from behind their walled enclosures. Most mass media comment sites seem to fall into that latter category, though those are increasingly polarised themselves.

I wonder if the tendency to move further and further away from the centre will eventually stretch the 'political spectrum' to breaking point and there will emerge again a demand for consensus opinions, expressed respectfully, and places like will come back into something approaching fashion (it was always fairly niche, let's be honest).

I certainly think that the modern tendency, on all sides, to take personal offence at hearing or reading anything which one disagrees with cannot hold. From the extremist liberal snowflakes who no-platform at the first sign of dissent, to the exceedingly thin skinned current POTUS who flies into a Twitter rage and effectively calls anyone a liar who disagrees or criticises with him (what else does 'Fake News' mean?), and all over-sensitives in between, I think we are in a state of flux where old taboos (e.g sex and sexuality, curse words) are breaking down, and new ones (around race, gender politics and identity generally) are coming forward. In such times, it's too easy to take offence and too easy to give it, and people who feel hurt at more likely to lash out than soberly consider what was actually being said.

The long written form - more than a Tweet's worth - is pretty good for that. And I think even a Tweet is preferable to a Facebook post - FB is so determined to tell you what you want to hear, and so constructed to do just that, that it's not really a place where you can easily have discussions with people who think very differently from you. It's a great place to firm up existing opinions, but they need to be tested outside the nursery slopes, as it were, and that's all Facebook can give you.

I heard a comedian say last night that they like Facebook because they would rather get told "Happy Birthday" by someone they vaguely know than Tweeted "I'll kill you" by someone they've never met. Kind of sums it up for me, really. Facebook is nice and sweet but has a particular purpose, as does Twitter, but for real thought you have to go elsewhere. used to be that, and still is, but thinking itself it out of fashion. At least, I think so.

I keep coming back because it is a place where hands do reach across the aisle from time to time.

I know that there is an e-mail link when you click on my USER NAME. I just checked that filter and deleted unopened circa 50 messages from Donald J Trump...

I usually filter my e-mail as I need to know the information for the church bulletin is ready for us to edit and print. I need to know if I get a water bill from the city. For some reason, I had quit checking for e-mail addressed to my Curmudgeon filter... I went to check it again, and deleted 951 messages from Jonathan Garthwaite… I doubt if he is a regular on this site, and all he was doing was to ask me for campaign contributions. I just searched for him and eliminated another 50 e-mails by labeling them as SPAM.

I really doubt that anyone on this site is responsible for the weekly request I get from the Republican Party asking me, as a longtime member, to please contribute not only cash, but my input on where I want the party to go. I suppose that I could tell them that I look forward to their continuing waste of campaign funds, but I don't want to personally waste the cost of a postage stamp.

I have developed a bad habit of logging in, checking for new posts, and finding none, logging out.

Perhaps if those of us who are interested in the site committed to posting once a week to a thread (even at random) we could rekindle the flame. I know that the young lady to my left used to post here frequently, but she has developed the habit lately of reading news articles, reading the comments, and responding to the comments there. It seems a little bit to me like walking out of a restaurant and then remarking about the conversation at another table.

I'll be back, but I am 72 years old. I can't promise to keep performing CPR until our country recovers from Donald Trump...

Those of you who are addressing the divisive nature of debates these days, it's certainly true that a lot has changed and many people do exist in an echo chamber. I made a thread a few years back where I stated it would be my last debate, in large part due to the lack of ability of some to communicate. Though I found topics at often flowed better than other sites, I was done in general, I didn't debate after that point for a couple years apart from occasionally making a comment on Youtube videos. Jamie, from what I understand, is in a similar spot now where current events and politicians are frustrating her, though she showed interest in keeping running as well.

After a couple years of not debating, I had an urge again to get my opinion out there. My thinking on it was, why let those who are misleading, divisive, or too biased to see fact from fiction, run the table? I think if good and truthful arguments from those who want to be fair are placed side by side with arguments made by those who don't care whether or not they're fair or truthful, that many people who read such an exchange will be able to decipher between the two. It may be impossible for some to change if they've made that decision to let their disdain for other groups cloud their judgment but I figure that standing up to the insanity with something that makes sense is one of the best weapons that we have.

If it's not to the point of flat out hate speech I now tend to welcome arguments that I know are wrong or unfair because I believe that the exposure works against them in the long run. It often takes checking my emotions at the door to stay involved, people say incredibly stupid things when debating politics, matters of race, and religion, understanding that I'm not going to be able to change that and not taking things personally is where I had to get myself to come back and do this again.

Julian

QUOTE

They say that history doesn't repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes. I wonder if the tendency to polarise will not blow itself out eventually, and we'll return to a more consensus debate style; i sense a yearning among the public for that, particularly among those who are broadly interested in news and politics but are switched off by the way most debate (online of real world) is conducted these days.

I'm confident it will because that saying is true if I'm interpreting it correctly. America, and in fact the whole world has been through much worse times than these and gotten through it. I've probably overused this argument but as far as America is concerned, when I look at the 1960s, by my research that decade was much more divisive than much of the late 70's into the early 2000's.

I first noticed the polarization getting worse again in Bush Jr's second term, the Iraq war divided Americans and more people stopped trying to understand those who disagree with them and instead opted to character assassinate them or talk past them. The divisive nature of American politics got much worse under the Obama administration, and now again things are getting worse under Trump as far as divisiveness goes. Those who have power and influence over others aren't setting a good example, that's part of the problem. Politicians and media pundits often live by the standard of trying to delegitimize their political opponents with divisive rhetoric and don't work with the other party to pass new legislation and the general public often mirrors that. However, as you hinted at, I think many people are getting tired of the way some people debate politics.

Euporean nations seem to have some of these problems as well with the divide on illegal immigration and Brexit, perhaps the problems here are in some way linked to what's happening in Europe. Either way, if history is any indicator, this is just a phase that'll pass.

JohnfrmCleveland

QUOTE

The longest thread we ever had here on AD was about MMT (the "most replied thread" on the intro page), and it attracted new members who came in just for the occasion. (I'm still in contact with a handful of them via Facebook, including Brinn.) Because of that thread, MMT and economics became my main interest, and that eventually morphed into a Facebook page with over 3000 members (Introduction to MMT, if anybody here is interested). It's a more focused way to discuss a topic, with (mostly) like-minded people. And to reach new people, I post on Quora. Both venues get me lots of looks, and they have counters to prove it. (Long ago, I suggested "like" buttons to Mike, to no avail.)

If AD is going to survive/thrive, we have to attract a LOT of new members. There is plenty to fight about with the Cheeto in power, and plenty of Cheeto fans, still, somehow... There's an important midterm election coming up... We just need new members. And I don't know how to do that. I wish I did.

Just to be safe, I copied the text of my favorite post for safe keeping.

I think you're right about needing new members to survive, I've mentioned this site to a few people but none of them joined. Perhaps they see that the replies trickle in and believe that the site isn't active enough for them. I'm confident things could change here if the forum sections were updated, there were new announcements, more annual elections for the members, and the radio program was back. That'd all attract new members and if the radio program wouldn't be an option they could always substitute for a new feature. I like the idea of a like button (no pun intended). I made a thread a few years back asking the members here if a majority would want to propose that feature. http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index...showtopic=22571

Right now, looking on the home page and seeing that the last announcement was "State of the Union Address 2013" doesn't help attract new members but personally I think if the site was updated and promoted on social media platforms, that would attract new members, you can even pay Google to bump your website in the search results I believe. I think people still want to debate but agree with the members here that the market is saturated with new types of debate platforms like Quora, or when people rant on their Facebook page. That's tough to overcome but it could be done, especially in the age of Trump because people on both sides are fired up and wanting to debate, as you hinted at. I haven't heard Cheeto used to describe Trump yet, but I've heard Oompa Loompa before! My opinion on him is that he has a big mouth and says polarizing things far too often. I don't think he's as bad as some Trump critics think, but I'm definitely not afraid to be critical of him either when I feel it's appropriate.

The "What is so Bad about the Defict?!?!" thread? I don't believe I posted in that one, until recently I didn't have a strong opinion on economics, probably because it turns out that I don't agree with the far left or right on things like the size of government. These days I have a strong opinion that we should have a balanced government so I've been following economics a little closer. It's awesome that that thread spawned a 3000 member Facebook page though, I'd take a look at that just out of curiosity.

______________________________________________________

If you or anyone else is interested, I use Quora for a quick debate now and then and Facebook primarily for keeping in contact with friends or relatives.

Here's one of my answers on Quora which did okay I suppose, for a right of center answer. I think most of the members there are on the left with most of the views and upvotes going to answers which are, in some fashion, sympathetic to that side or critical of conservatives but I often like my ideas challenged so I like to post there regardless.....

and I'm still open to finding A website where we'd agree to go to in the scenario that AD goes down. I've joined up at Debate.org though I haven't started to do my debates there yet because I'd find it hard to keep up with replies on three websites, so it's there as a backup. They have a forum section and a contest section where two people go head to head in a debate and the other members vote on a winner which I found to be a neat concept.

I was wondering if anybody else here thinks it's a good idea to have a backup plan just in case Americasdebate goes down. It's possible that Mike and Jamie will come back with further plans for AD because they're continuing to pay for the cost of the domain and thus far when the website has gone down, as it did a few days ago, they've worked to fix the problem but in the scenario that we do lose AD, we'd lose what's left of our debating community and some of us have debated here for over a decade. Personally, I've debated here since 2007, have gotten to know some of the members, and developed a lot of my debating skills here so from my perspective it'd be unfortunate to see that happen. AD is also an interesting concept in itself, I think America should have a dedicated spot to debate a range of issues, including with members of other nations when they find an interest.

As for what we'd plan to do if the website goes down, I'm open to any ideas. Perhaps we could think of a common place we'd meet in the scenario that the website goes down, or exchange contact information and figure that out at a later time, there's a number of things that we could do.

I had reason to revisit some of the threads in the Election 2008 forum. My, what a lively time that was. Clinton vs Obama vs McCain for all the marbles and doggone if it wasn't a romping, stomping time where allies became enemies, the topics were plentiful, and the debates came fast and furious.

Looking at all the names of posters who were here and now gone makes me wonder who's dead, who's alive, who went back to lurking, who got bored, who got banned and who found other places on the Internet to hang out? So many come and gone.

America has gone through a lot of changes since 2008. Some good, some bad and some somewhere in between. That's America for you. It keeps on changing even when you might wish it would slow down a bit and not rush into the future.

What hasn't changed is America's Debate itself. With the exception that the names of the members no longer posting as frequently or at all has grown and the names of those who do is confined to a familiar group making familiar arguments, AD looks exactly the same. Same graphics, same layout, same features, same restrictions, same everything.

Mostly the same.

On the launch page under the 100 Newest Topics with Replies, over a quarter of the topics (26) were created in 2013.

As of this writing there are 4,671 registered members. If we were to drill down to active members there probably wouldn't be many more than two dozen. Maybe.

The board's Administrators have been M.I.A. of late. Jaime has posted seven times in 2014 and none since March 19. Mike has been more prolific (eight posts) if limited where he posts. All his 2014 posts were in the NFL 2013 picks thread and with his last made on February 2 before the Super Bowl.

The last thread Mike's created non-football related dates back to July 2012. Jaime's last half-dozen threads have all been birthday shout-outs interrupted by a call to join a chat about the 2013 State of the Union. They both have their blogs, but neither has been updated since April.

I recall Mike (or was it Jaime?) say on America's Debate radio (which I'll get to in a moment) that they had purposefully drawn back from being active participants in debates on America's Debate for reasons I don't recall exactly. Pretty sure they were sound reasons.

At any rate, they seem to be silent partners on their own debate board.

Then there's the AD launch page. Have you looked at it lately? Immediately under the site's masthead is a plug for America's Debate Radio - 314th Live Edition: Oct 21 2012, 09:00 PM. There's still a live link directly to the now defunct radio show. Under Announcements there is the aforementioned State of the Union chat that's a year old, but still the most recent. Under New Resources the "latest" entry is over three years old made by Lesly, who stopped posting three years ago (but just posted on my Facebook feed yesterday) that directs to a link that is dead.

There were no 2012-2013 Year in Review winners. The 2012 Best Overall Debater award was shared between JohnfromCleveland and Raptavio, who despite the current birthday best wishes vanished without a trace in December 2012 and hasn't been seen round these parts since.

Like I said, quiet. Too quiet? ermm.gif

This is not my primary debate board any longer and hasn't been since the 2008 elections. That was an exhilarating year from me, but an exhausting one too. I needed a break from the AD habit and I took one. While I've increased my posts here since the Trayvon Martin tragedy, there aren't as many debates on America's Debate I find engaging. Partly because there simply aren't a wide variance of topics discussed here and most of the participants are the same ones whom have been here as long as I have with akaCG providing most of what passes for "new blood" among the posters.

As fun as it is (occasionally) to spar with akaCG, it's not enough. Ah, ya missed out, akaCG. Back in the day when there was a more varied group of conservatives and Republicans on the board you would have far more support behind you than you do now. The board has become pretty conservative now, but then it was like the Chic song. Good times.

But the nature of the Internet is sites come and sites go and the people who visit and become a part of the cybercommunity come and go even faster. There are peaks and valleys, highs and lows, boom and bust times for every site and America's Debate is no exception to that hard, fast rule.

This is the Comments and Suggestions forum and I've commented. Suggestions? Don't really have any. I know what I think the board needs, but what I think isn't important. This board has a dated, dusty, and diminished look and feel to it. I won't speculate why it is that way, but I can see the evidence before my eyes and what I see is an America's Debate that looks and feels like a once-popular bar in a strip mall fallen on hard times and now nobody new comes in and its kept alive primarily by the old regulars who remember it the way it was and look past the way it is.

In the America's Debate Bar and Grille there's still a jukebox in the corner playing all the big hits of five or more years ago, one old color TV that only gets the three network channels (and PBS), a radio tuned to the AM dial, and a VCR with no tapes to play flashing "12:00" over and over and over.

In the History section of America's Debate (last updated 5/11/07) it boasts of the site upgrade and how The Future Holds Limitless Possibilities.

The Number One movie of 2007 was Spider-Man 3. The Departed won Best Picture and the song of the year was "Not Ready to Make Nice" by the Dixie Chicks and the Oakland Raiders chose JaMarcus Russell as the Number One pick in the NFL Draft. Dontreadonme won the Best Overall Debater award.

I was wondering if anybody else here thinks it's a good idea to have a backup plan just in case Americasdebate goes down. It's possible that Mike and Jamie will come back with further plans for AD because they're continuing to pay for the cost of the domain and thus far when the website has gone down, as it did a few days ago, they've worked to fix the problem but in the scenario that we do lose AD, we'd lose what's left of our debating community and some of us have debated here for over a decade. Personally, I've debated here since 2007, have gotten to know some of the members, and developed a lot of my debating skills here so from my perspective it'd be unfortunate to see that happen. AD is also an interesting concept in itself, I think America should have a dedicated spot to debate a range of issues, including with members of other nations when they find an interest.

As for what we'd plan to do if the website goes down, I'm open to any ideas. Perhaps we could think of a common place we'd meet in the scenario that the website goes down, or exchange contact information and figure that out at a later time, there's a number of things that we could do.

I had reason to revisit some of the threads in the Election 2008 forum. My, what a lively time that was. Clinton vs Obama vs McCain for all the marbles and doggone if it wasn't a romping, stomping time where allies became enemies, the topics were plentiful, and the debates came fast and furious.

Looking at all the names of posters who were here and now gone makes me wonder who's dead, who's alive, who went back to lurking, who got bored, who got banned and who found other places on the Internet to hang out? So many come and gone.

America has gone through a lot of changes since 2008. Some good, some bad and some somewhere in between. That's America for you. It keeps on changing even when you might wish it would slow down a bit and not rush into the future.

What hasn't changed is America's Debate itself. With the exception that the names of the members no longer posting as frequently or at all has grown and the names of those who do is confined to a familiar group making familiar arguments, AD looks exactly the same. Same graphics, same layout, same features, same restrictions, same everything.

Mostly the same.

On the launch page under the 100 Newest Topics with Replies, over a quarter of the topics (26) were created in 2013.

As of this writing there are 4,671 registered members. If we were to drill down to active members there probably wouldn't be many more than two dozen. Maybe.

The board's Administrators have been M.I.A. of late. Jaime has posted seven times in 2014 and none since March 19. Mike has been more prolific (eight posts) if limited where he posts. All his 2014 posts were in the NFL 2013 picks thread and with his last made on February 2 before the Super Bowl.

The last thread Mike's created non-football related dates back to July 2012. Jaime's last half-dozen threads have all been birthday shout-outs interrupted by a call to join a chat about the 2013 State of the Union. They both have their blogs, but neither has been updated since April.

I recall Mike (or was it Jaime?) say on America's Debate radio (which I'll get to in a moment) that they had purposefully drawn back from being active participants in debates on America's Debate for reasons I don't recall exactly. Pretty sure they were sound reasons.

At any rate, they seem to be silent partners on their own debate board.

Then there's the AD launch page. Have you looked at it lately? Immediately under the site's masthead is a plug for America's Debate Radio - 314th Live Edition: Oct 21 2012, 09:00 PM. There's still a live link directly to the now defunct radio show. Under Announcements there is the aforementioned State of the Union chat that's a year old, but still the most recent. Under New Resources the "latest" entry is over three years old made by Lesly, who stopped posting three years ago (but just posted on my Facebook feed yesterday) that directs to a link that is dead.

There were no 2012-2013 Year in Review winners. The 2012 Best Overall Debater award was shared between JohnfromCleveland and Raptavio, who despite the current birthday best wishes vanished without a trace in December 2012 and hasn't been seen round these parts since.

Like I said, quiet. Too quiet? ermm.gif

This is not my primary debate board any longer and hasn't been since the 2008 elections. That was an exhilarating year from me, but an exhausting one too. I needed a break from the AD habit and I took one. While I've increased my posts here since the Trayvon Martin tragedy, there aren't as many debates on America's Debate I find engaging. Partly because there simply aren't a wide variance of topics discussed here and most of the participants are the same ones whom have been here as long as I have with akaCG providing most of what passes for "new blood" among the posters.

As fun as it is (occasionally) to spar with akaCG, it's not enough. Ah, ya missed out, akaCG. Back in the day when there was a more varied group of conservatives and Republicans on the board you would have far more support behind you than you do now. The board has become pretty conservative now, but then it was like the Chic song. Good times.

But the nature of the Internet is sites come and sites go and the people who visit and become a part of the cybercommunity come and go even faster. There are peaks and valleys, highs and lows, boom and bust times for every site and America's Debate is no exception to that hard, fast rule.

This is the Comments and Suggestions forum and I've commented. Suggestions? Don't really have any. I know what I think the board needs, but what I think isn't important. This board has a dated, dusty, and diminished look and feel to it. I won't speculate why it is that way, but I can see the evidence before my eyes and what I see is an America's Debate that looks and feels like a once-popular bar in a strip mall fallen on hard times and now nobody new comes in and its kept alive primarily by the old regulars who remember it the way it was and look past the way it is.

In the America's Debate Bar and Grille there's still a jukebox in the corner playing all the big hits of five or more years ago, one old color TV that only gets the three network channels (and PBS), a radio tuned to the AM dial, and a VCR with no tapes to play flashing "12:00" over and over and over.

In the History section of America's Debate (last updated 5/11/07) it boasts of the site upgrade and how The Future Holds Limitless Possibilities.

The Number One movie of 2007 was Spider-Man 3. The Departed won Best Picture and the song of the year was "Not Ready to Make Nice" by the Dixie Chicks and the Oakland Raiders chose JaMarcus Russell as the Number One pick in the NFL Draft. Dontreadonme won the Best Overall Debater award.

Who will win the award this year? Does it even matter?

There is a possibility it does. A limited possibility.

Fast-forward from 2014 to 2018 and you know what's changed? Nothing.

That's not a good thing.

What you said in that thread about sums it up, kind of sad when getting into the details of it, ya know? The only question now is what to do about it, if anything. akaCG has now left as well along with a few others so I think it really boils down to whether or not Mike and Jamie decide to get involved again. However, to prepare for the possibility of becoming just another dead link, I'm willing to collaborate to form a plan B of some kind. The two ideas I'm thinking of is to simply either trade contact info and figure it out at a later time or to agree on a website to meet up on if the worst case scenario does happen. Things would certainly be different if we had to migrate to another debate board but some of the old crew would still be together, at this point consisting of perhaps 10 diehards, give or take, who still show up here fairly regularly.

In the meantime, I'll likely still contribute threads here until that's not a possibility. If I want a quick debate or want to come across someone new, I just jump on Quora. It's not a debating platform per se but has a lot of debates which keep me engaged, including some pretty intense ones when I'm looking for them. I'm still saving a lot of my substantial debates for as of now but if things get any slower, I've considered splitting things up by doing identical threads both here and at Debate.org

I was wondering if anybody else here thinks it's a good idea to have a backup plan just in case Americasdebate goes down. It's possible that Mike and Jamie will come back with further plans for AD because they're continuing to pay for the cost of the domain and thus far when the website has gone down, as it did a few days ago, they've worked to fix the problem but in the scenario that we do lose AD, we'd lose what's left of our debating community and some of us have debated here for over a decade. Personally, I've debated here since 2007, have gotten to know some of the members, and developed a lot of my debating skills here so from my perspective it'd be unfortunate to see that happen. AD is also an interesting concept in itself, I think America should have a dedicated spot to debate a range of issues, including with members of other nations when they find an interest.

As for what we'd plan to do if the website goes down, I'm open to any ideas. Perhaps we could think of a common place we'd meet in the scenario that the website goes down, or exchange contact information and figure that out at a later time, there's a number of things that we could do.

Go with the back up plan. I was wondering when the plug will be pulled. While I half expected it to be pulled already there is an emotional component, nostalgia maybe, that wants to hold on and hoard the ideas. Silly isn't it? On a more personal level there is some regret because while I am a cautious person and have learnt the answers to most questions can be observed if one is patient enough, observation also tells me luck favours the bold. I sat out on a good many discussions because I knew the answer would be at hand eventually. Unfortunately by that time the party was over, the lights were out and the embers were black. Still I am a creature of habit and not everyone takes the time to express themselves as thoughtfully as right here. It is with bittersweet melancholy I write this sobering realization to you.

I find myself oscillating between things better left unsaid and things that should have been done for setting the record straight. Remember while throwing shoes at a President is dangerous and rather dumb, it may just open up a promising political career down the road.

For example, I hope Mr. Dingo returns one day to review the steady state society, it is a topic which has never completely left my mind and time and experience have weighed on the matter for me.

I would like to talk about trade, and how the old rules of grievance resolution are now thrown out the window because a demagogue is in office and used an emergency mandate to scrap existing trade agreements.

I wish to rekindle the same anti-war stance I used since I came here during the decision to go to Iraq because now, the mercenary profiteering aspect of war has spun out of control.

I wish to discuss the rise of the snowflake generation, the "I am not asking, I am telling you" shrillness that is keeping me up at night.

I wish to talk about and speculate on the evolution of the political party, how left and right have moved in the last century and where current movements are taking old parties. Could a third political party be possible?

I wish to discuss energy, and by extension peak oil, and while the experts plus myself were wrong on how it would hit the economy, I was right on the effects.

I wish to talk about immigration, both planned and unplanned, and if there could theoretically be a point in time where deportation would make sense.

There are plenty of things I wish to talk about, but finding a receptive ear, that is proving to the be the challenge.

The world didn't stop spinning Net, it is people who stopped looking at the world because they no longer liked what they saw. Perhaps the best time to debate is when the ugliness of existing politics can no longer be ignored?

The world didn't stop spinning Net, it is people who stopped looking at the world because they no longer liked what they saw. Perhaps the best time to debate is when the ugliness of existing politics can no longer be ignored?

Maybe so, and maybe people will realize that posting short blurbs that merely parrot stuff everyone already knows is not debate . . . naw, lots of people like to believe we are not descended from apes but act like we are nevertheless.

Perhaps it's just that there isn't much left to debate, now that fascism has its foot in the door. Calling attention to yourself might not be such a good survival plan.

The farmer's in the yard; time to keep yer head down. So with that, I'm off to musical melody land on tunes too old to be a threat to humans aping apes. Tiptoeing through the tulips boss, tiptoeing through the tulips.

I was wondering if anybody else here thinks it's a good idea to have a backup plan just in case Americasdebate goes down. It's possible that Mike and Jamie will come back with further plans for AD because they're continuing to pay for the cost of the domain and thus far when the website has gone down, as it did a few days ago, they've worked to fix the problem but in the scenario that we do lose AD, we'd lose what's left of our debating community and some of us have debated here for over a decade. Personally, I've debated here since 2007, have gotten to know some of the members, and developed a lot of my debating skills here so from my perspective it'd be unfortunate to see that happen. AD is also an interesting concept in itself, I think America should have a dedicated spot to debate a range of issues, including with members of other nations when they find an interest.

As for what we'd plan to do if the website goes down, I'm open to any ideas. Perhaps we could think of a common place we'd meet in the scenario that the website goes down, or exchange contact information and figure that out at a later time, there's a number of things that we could do.

Go with the back up plan. I was wondering when the plug will be pulled. While I half expected it to be pulled already there is an emotional component, nostalgia maybe, that wants to hold on and hoard the ideas. Silly isn't it? On a more personal level there is some regret because while I am a cautious person and have learnt the answers to most questions can be observed if one is patient enough, observation also tells me luck favours the bold. I sat out on a good many discussions because I knew the answer would be at hand eventually. Unfortunately by that time the party was over, the lights were out and the embers were black. Still I am a creature of habit and not everyone takes the time to express themselves as thoughtfully as right here. It is with bittersweet melancholy I write this sobering realization to you.

I find myself oscillating between things better left unsaid and things that should have been done for setting the record straight. Remember while throwing shoes at a President is dangerous and rather dumb, it may just open up a promising political career down the road.

For example, I hope Mr. Dingo returns one day to review the steady state society, it is a topic which has never completely left my mind and time and experience have weighed on the matter for me.

I would like to talk about trade, and how the old rules of grievance resolution are now thrown out the window because a demagogue is in office and used an emergency mandate to scrap existing trade agreements.

I wish to rekindle the same anti-war stance I used since I came here during the decision to go to Iraq because now, the mercenary profiteering aspect of war has spun out of control.

I wish to discuss the rise of the snowflake generation, the "I am not asking, I am telling you" shrillness that is keeping me up at night.

I wish to talk about and speculate on the evolution of the political party, how left and right have moved in the last century and where current movements are taking old parties. Could a third political party be possible?

I wish to discuss energy, and by extension peak oil, and while the experts plus myself were wrong on how it would hit the economy, I was right on the effects.

I wish to talk about immigration, both planned and unplanned, and if there could theoretically be a point in time where deportation would make sense.

There are plenty of things I wish to talk about, but finding a receptive ear, that is proving to the be the challenge.

The world didn't stop spinning Net, it is people who stopped looking at the world because they no longer liked what they saw. Perhaps the best time to debate is when the ugliness of existing politics can no longer be ignored?

To answer the question at the end, that time would be now! Well, the divisiveness we're seeing right now is one of the reasons why I'm involved anyway. For me, it doesn't work to tell myself that my debating or involvement with others in my personal life, is going to change the world. Having said that, ignoring what's going on wasn't a good fit for me. I think the debate scene is dominated too much by those who are dividing or indoctrinating others. Being assertive and taking a jab here and there when something is wrong is one thing, but some have gotten to the point where they're actively trying to demonize anyone who disagrees with them or mislead those who they feel are corrigible.

I'm hoping what will happen is that just enough rational people get involved on both sides to start turning the table some. There's always going to be a degree of chaos, perhaps sometimes we even grow from that, but whenever possible the goal should be cooperation, working together to solve problems and share knowledge.

I remember Dingo, the environment and climate happens to be one of the topics where I agree with Democrats that there are serious problems, many of which humans are contributing to and that's not to be taken lightly. I don't always agree with the approach that the left and Democrats take to solve the problem though, so I presented to Dingo and TedN5 some alternatives to over-regulating. I thought we had some good exchanges and that they presented a lot of information that I think we should be considering. It was interesting watching them go back with Ted, I'll tell you that much. He was very involved in those debates, I think he remains the member with the most post at

I was wondering if anybody else here thinks it's a good idea to have a backup plan just in case Americasdebate goes down. It's possible that Mike and Jamie will come back with further plans for AD because they're continuing to pay for the cost of the domain and thus far when the website has gone down, as it did a few days ago, they've worked to fix the problem but in the scenario that we do lose AD, we'd lose what's left of our debating community and some of us have debated here for over a decade. Personally, I've debated here since 2007, have gotten to know some of the members, and developed a lot of my debating skills here so from my perspective it'd be unfortunate to see that happen. AD is also an interesting concept in itself, I think America should have a dedicated spot to debate a range of issues, including with members of other nations when they find an interest.

As for what we'd plan to do if the website goes down, I'm open to any ideas. Perhaps we could think of a common place we'd meet in the scenario that the website goes down, or exchange contact information and figure that out at a later time, there's a number of things that we could do.

I had reason to revisit some of the threads in the Election 2008 forum. My, what a lively time that was. Clinton vs Obama vs McCain for all the marbles and doggone if it wasn't a romping, stomping time where allies became enemies, the topics were plentiful, and the debates came fast and furious.

Looking at all the names of posters who were here and now gone makes me wonder who's dead, who's alive, who went back to lurking, who got bored, who got banned and who found other places on the Internet to hang out? So many come and gone.

America has gone through a lot of changes since 2008. Some good, some bad and some somewhere in between. That's America for you. It keeps on changing even when you might wish it would slow down a bit and not rush into the future.

What hasn't changed is America's Debate itself. With the exception that the names of the members no longer posting as frequently or at all has grown and the names of those who do is confined to a familiar group making familiar arguments, AD looks exactly the same. Same graphics, same layout, same features, same restrictions, same everything.

Mostly the same.

On the launch page under the 100 Newest Topics with Replies, over a quarter of the topics (26) were created in 2013.

As of this writing there are 4,671 registered members. If we were to drill down to active members there probably wouldn't be many more than two dozen. Maybe.

The board's Administrators have been M.I.A. of late. Jaime has posted seven times in 2014 and none since March 19. Mike has been more prolific (eight posts) if limited where he posts. All his 2014 posts were in the NFL 2013 picks thread and with his last made on February 2 before the Super Bowl.

The last thread Mike's created non-football related dates back to July 2012. Jaime's last half-dozen threads have all been birthday shout-outs interrupted by a call to join a chat about the 2013 State of the Union. They both have their blogs, but neither has been updated since April.

I recall Mike (or was it Jaime?) say on America's Debate radio (which I'll get to in a moment) that they had purposefully drawn back from being active participants in debates on America's Debate for reasons I don't recall exactly. Pretty sure they were sound reasons.

At any rate, they seem to be silent partners on their own debate board.

Then there's the AD launch page. Have you looked at it lately? Immediately under the site's masthead is a plug for America's Debate Radio - 314th Live Edition: Oct 21 2012, 09:00 PM. There's still a live link directly to the now defunct radio show. Under Announcements there is the aforementioned State of the Union chat that's a year old, but still the most recent. Under New Resources the "latest" entry is over three years old made by Lesly, who stopped posting three years ago (but just posted on my Facebook feed yesterday) that directs to a link that is dead.

There were no 2012-2013 Year in Review winners. The 2012 Best Overall Debater award was shared between JohnfromCleveland and Raptavio, who despite the current birthday best wishes vanished without a trace in December 2012 and hasn't been seen round these parts since.

Like I said, quiet. Too quiet? ermm.gif

This is not my primary debate board any longer and hasn't been since the 2008 elections. That was an exhilarating year from me, but an exhausting one too. I needed a break from the AD habit and I took one. While I've increased my posts here since the Trayvon Martin tragedy, there aren't as many debates on America's Debate I find engaging. Partly because there simply aren't a wide variance of topics discussed here and most of the participants are the same ones whom have been here as long as I have with akaCG providing most of what passes for "new blood" among the posters.

As fun as it is (occasionally) to spar with akaCG, it's not enough. Ah, ya missed out, akaCG. Back in the day when there was a more varied group of conservatives and Republicans on the board you would have far more support behind you than you do now. The board has become pretty conservative now, but then it was like the Chic song. Good times.

But the nature of the Internet is sites come and sites go and the people who visit and become a part of the cybercommunity come and go even faster. There are peaks and valleys, highs and lows, boom and bust times for every site and America's Debate is no exception to that hard, fast rule.

This is the Comments and Suggestions forum and I've commented. Suggestions? Don't really have any. I know what I think the board needs, but what I think isn't important. This board has a dated, dusty, and diminished look and feel to it. I won't speculate why it is that way, but I can see the evidence before my eyes and what I see is an America's Debate that looks and feels like a once-popular bar in a strip mall fallen on hard times and now nobody new comes in and its kept alive primarily by the old regulars who remember it the way it was and look past the way it is.

In the America's Debate Bar and Grille there's still a jukebox in the corner playing all the big hits of five or more years ago, one old color TV that only gets the three network channels (and PBS), a radio tuned to the AM dial, and a VCR with no tapes to play flashing "12:00" over and over and over.

In the History section of America's Debate (last updated 5/11/07) it boasts of the site upgrade and how The Future Holds Limitless Possibilities.

The Number One movie of 2007 was Spider-Man 3. The Departed won Best Picture and the song of the year was "Not Ready to Make Nice" by the Dixie Chicks and the Oakland Raiders chose JaMarcus Russell as the Number One pick in the NFL Draft. Dontreadonme won the Best Overall Debater award.

Who will win the award this year? Does it even matter?

There is a possibility it does. A limited possibility.

Fast-forward from 2014 to 2018 and you know what's changed? Nothing.

That's not a good thing.

Well, yes.

But the bigger point is, How the heck are you? Haven't seen you around these parts for yonks - no doubt driven by the topic of this very thread, but it's nice to see you here all the same.

What you said in that thread about sums it up, kind of sad when getting into the details of it, ya know? The only question now is what to do about it, if anything. akaCG has now left as well along with a few others so I think it really boils down to whether or not Mike and Jamie decide to get involved again. However, to prepare for the possibility of becoming just another dead link, I'm willing to collaborate to form a plan B of some kind. The two ideas I'm thinking of is to simply either trade contact info and figure it out at a later time or to agree on a website to meet up on if the worst case scenario does happen. Things would certainly be different if we had to migrate to another debate board but some of the old crew would still be together, at this point consisting of perhaps 10 diehards, give or take, who still show up here fairly regularly.

In the meantime, I'll likely still contribute threads here until that's not a possibility. If I want a quick debate or want to come across someone new, I just jump on Quora. It's not a debating platform per se but has a lot of debates which keep me engaged, including some pretty intense ones when I'm looking for them. I'm still saving a lot of my substantial debates for as of now but if things get any slower, I've considered splitting things up by doing identical threads both here and at Debate.org

net2007, the nature of the internet is nothing lasts, everything changes, and some websites simply can't change and so they die. That's where America's Debate is in 2018. It's sad and it may have been avoidable, but when the owners of this place go dark and silent, how long until the site itself follows?

At any rate, I see little reason to wring my hands in dismay. Let go. Move on. This board had a great run and we were all part of it. Nothing lasts forever.

If you are looking for an alternative here are two for your consideration:

I'm not going to try and sell anybody on these boards. They are their own places and they have their pluses and minuses same as anyplace else. Some of our AD expatriates have landed at AbsoluteWrite, but I am providing this information as nothing but a public service. Both boards are moderated, both boards are more vibrant and lively and topical than this board is and unlike this board, you can actually call "b.s" on them and not have to screw around with initials and censorship software.

What you said in that thread about sums it up, kind of sad when getting into the details of it, ya know? The only question now is what to do about it, if anything. akaCG has now left as well along with a few others so I think it really boils down to whether or not Mike and Jamie decide to get involved again. However, to prepare for the possibility of becoming just another dead link, I'm willing to collaborate to form a plan B of some kind. The two ideas I'm thinking of is to simply either trade contact info and figure it out at a later time or to agree on a website to meet up on if the worst case scenario does happen. Things would certainly be different if we had to migrate to another debate board but some of the old crew would still be together, at this point consisting of perhaps 10 diehards, give or take, who still show up here fairly regularly.

In the meantime, I'll likely still contribute threads here until that's not a possibility. If I want a quick debate or want to come across someone new, I just jump on Quora. It's not a debating platform per se but has a lot of debates which keep me engaged, including some pretty intense ones when I'm looking for them. I'm still saving a lot of my substantial debates for as of now but if things get any slower, I've considered splitting things up by doing identical threads both here and at Debate.org

net2007, the nature of the internet is nothing lasts, everything changes, and some websites simply can't change and so they die. That's where America's Debate is in 2018. It's sad and it may have been avoidable, but when the owners of this place go dark and silent, how long until the site itself follows?

At any rate, I see little reason to wring my hands in dismay. Let go. Move on. This board had a great run and we were all part of it. Nothing lasts forever.

If you are looking for an alternative here are two for your consideration:

I'm not going to try and sell anybody on these boards. They are their own places and they have their pluses and minuses same as anyplace else. Some of our AD expatriates have landed at AbsoluteWrite, but I am providing this information as nothing but a public service. Both boards are moderated, both boards are more vibrant and lively and topical than this board is and unlike this board, you can actually call "b.s" on them and not have to screw around with initials and censorship software.

I consider that a plus.

You may be right, I know you're trying to be realistic but....

Well, let's just say I'm pretty stubborn, so I'm still hoping for the best case scenario. That being said, I'm willing to branch out as well so what's a rough political makeup of those sites? More specifically, are they dominated by either liberal or conservative members? Anything that's well mixed is what I'm looking for so the site that's closer to 50/50, liberal/conservative, may interest me more.

If the replies come in any slower here I'll probably start doing dual threads, one at AD and one on a new site, I just haven't settled anywhere yet.

Well, let's just say I'm pretty stubborn, so I'm still hoping for the best case scenario. That being said, I'm willing to branch out as well so what's a rough political makeup of those sites? More specifically, are they dominated by either liberal or conservative members? Anything that's well mixed is what I'm looking for so the site that's closer to 50/50, liberal/conservative, may interest me more.

If the replies come in any slower here I'll probably start doing dual threads, one at AD and one on a new site, I just haven't settled anywhere yet.

Between the two, I'd suggest The Colline Gate. It's better suited for moderates such as yourself. AbsoluteWrite swings harder to the left.

I wouldn't hold out much hope of an revival. It's possible, but nothing indicates it's likely.

Well, let's just say I'm pretty stubborn, so I'm still hoping for the best case scenario. That being said, I'm willing to branch out as well so what's a rough political makeup of those sites? More specifically, are they dominated by either liberal or conservative members? Anything that's well mixed is what I'm looking for so the site that's closer to 50/50, liberal/conservative, may interest me more.

If the replies come in any slower here I'll probably start doing dual threads, one at AD and one on a new site, I just haven't settled anywhere yet.

Between the two, I'd suggest The Colline Gate. It's better suited for moderates such as yourself. AbsoluteWrite swings harder to the left.

I wouldn't hold out much hope of an revival. It's possible, but nothing indicates it's likely.

Do as thou wilt.

Thanks man, and we shall see, you could be right because things don't look good the last few years, I'll say that much.

From: Where you are, there you is
Gender: Male
Politics: Slightly Conservative
Party affiliation: None

I can start an AD Discord server (or Mike and Jaime can...I'm obviously not trying to hijack anything). It would help everyone stay in touch, we can also have channels for various debate topics, both text and voice channels. Just an idea.

However, I think there's a much bigger problem, and it's not something that's really AD related. At this point, what is there left to debate? I believe it was Dennis Prager that correctly pointed out that the right considers the left to be wrong, whereas the left considers the right to be evil. How do you debate that? How do you debate someone that considers you unworthy of moral consideration? Arguments can defeat other arguments. Arguments cannot defeat doxing, swatting, getting people fired, unpersoning people entirely, and all the rest of the wonderful behaviors that the #Resistards have been engaging in. On this very site, there are threads that advocate "defooing" from "fascists" (which of course has nothing to do with the actual political ideology of fascism, and is just a catch-all phrase for undesirables). How do you debate the real world version of The Faith Militant? Can you reason with people who behave exactly like Scientologists, with Supressive Persons, Out-ethics, Disconnection policies and all? If someone has an answer, I'd love to hear it. But I won't hold my breath.

I have completely lost faith in discourse. It's over. The only reason any of us are even entertaining this conversation right now is because we know each for a decade. You cannot reason with the deeply religious, and make no mistake: the cult of progressivism is highly religious in nature (I can expound on this point if needed). At this point in time, I don't care to call out the opposition on their logical fallacies...I want the people that made an enemy of me to be stopped (by legal, non-violent means...the fact that I even feel the need to specify this explicitly to avoid problems speaks volumes). Maybe I'm more black-pilled than most, but I don't think so. Take a look at the last thread started by our very own High Sparrow, that exceptional individual known as Cruising Ram. That's the absolute state of political discourse right now. Anything that falls under "muh racism" or "muh sexism" or "muh Islamophobia" will make you an undesirable, regardless of how out of context you're taken, and the morally righteous Stasi will make sure to report you to whoever you can be reported to, and ruin your life. What's the point of talking under these conditions? What's the point of a debate where one party tries to make a solid case for their argument, and the other tries to make a solid case against their opponent's character? What's the point of me talking to people who call me a Nazi EVERY SINGLE DAY (knowing fully well that I'm Jewish and that I had many family members die in the Holocaust), as they do to everyone who is to the right of effing Mao Dse Dung. It's all so tiresome...

I've seen similar, Looms. In the real world, I have given up talking about politics for the most part. I'm more informed about some things than I've ever been, but nothing I can really post about. My spouse retires soon and then I'll be able to post what I want but I'll be far less informed.

I try to keep this in mind when reading opinions online. The people who are the most knowledgeable often can't talk (depending on the subject of course). This is a bit different from the days when this forum was new and the exchange of information relatively new too (before blogs or Facebook). Since then, a lot of people have gotten into trouble for posting information online and it takes a great deal of time out of one's day to post knowledgeably and comprehensively about a topic. Since there's little if anything to gain by doing so the risk/reward ratio doesn't figure so we don't have as many good blogs like Abu Muqawama or Intel Dump. Michael Totten is still around but he's a journalist so that's his biz.

I don't know if anyone reads the blog Slatestarcodex.com around here, but it's probably the best one around for reasoned discussion.The author (a psychiatrist) is left-leaning, but fair and even handed. As a result, the participants tend to be reasonable as well. I know he bans some commentary but it has to be pretty over-the-top.

Scott Adams (left leaning also, but these days the left perceives him as "Alt-right" leaning because he supports Trump) also has an interesting take on human psychology. I was a big fan when he wrote "How to Fail at everything and still win big". It came out a few years back, and that's when I started reading his blog. I now think he might be moderately insane, but he still looks at things from an interesting angle, so I listen and read his stuff from time to time.