Holland and Howarth, not heard much on these, what positions do they play?

Holland is a prop. When he first came to the club I was not very impressed. IMO he was one of the big if not biggest improvers in 2008. At first he was simply noted for putting on bigs hits and soon became exhausted and replaced. Not sure where the lack of heart comment came from but he always struck me as somebody who would put his body on the line from day 1. In 2008 his running the ball improved.

I like his build. I have always believed the best prop appear thick set, that their body is deeper than the norm. Lazarus, Webcke, Skerret, Platt. I have always preferred that build to the tall rangy prop. Holland is not as thick as those guys in build but he does have the inklings of that build about him and is 6ft I am guessing maybe 6ft 1 or 2. He hits in defence with everything but what some fans do not realise is that big hits use a lot of energy. His running still needs to develop and as yet he has no offloading game.

If he goes further he will become a Mr 100% consistent bookend type of prop. Not flash but a guy that does the hard yards.

Howarth came as a utility player. He played back row and centre mainly. He looked to be one of those youngsters who had good all round skills but nothing physical / athletic to take him to the next level. I do not believe he has the pace/evasion to be a SL outside back nor the size/strength to be a SL back row forward. Last season he often played 6 to Sam T but in fact Howarth was often first receiver and he has a good pass. Later and when I became impressed was a stint he had at hooker. His quality passing, brain as to when to let the pass go close to the opposition line really stood out. His defence was decent and he has a good kicking game. For me his potential is as a well skilled but slow stand off / loose forward in the NL or as a hooker at any level.

'Do you remember when we had that meeting in Orlando? We talked about how we were knocked out the previous year by Leeds. And at the end, I asked you one question. "Do you want to be a semi-final team? Or do you want to do something special?" You all said you wanted to win. But talking is easy – it needed you to believe. It needed you to work hard – harder than you had – and make sacrifices. You did all that. you worked for each other. You stuck together when it was tough. And because of your efforts, you sit here tonight as champions. I'm proud of you. Be proud of yourselves. You've done something special.'Shaun Wane's post-Grand Final speech. 5th October 2013.

Whilst writing this I have also seen "PK" response to "Cruncher" over the Questions he wants answering on the night.

I would suggest a couple of things.

1/ Maybe you or certain people don't like the answers you are given that's why they keep getting repeated.2/ If you don't like the answers then stopping asking the same drivelling questions that anyone with half a brain could telly you IL won't answer and I agree He shouldnt.3/ If you want to know "Standard details" then ask "Standard queastions"! 4/ If you want to Know more then put your money were your mouth is a buy the club!

1 - no answers were given to any of the questions i have put on here.
2 - i didnt ask IL the q's for the very reason you said - gives me half a brain - if youd read my post properly youd know that
3 - i think vast majority of fans would like to know how the money from trent, higham, calderwood, colborn leaving equates to wages for riddell and amos roberts - seems standard to me?
4 - lend us a quid then.

the event is fine, reflecting on it a few days later i suppose it serves a purpose. i am very appreciative to BN for his coaching and him being able to sit through the drivel that preceeded him. in this circumstance IL will always win - he makes the rules for the forum so yeah he should come away looking good.

I've seen them bomb a quarter final, bottle a semi final, finish as league leaders, but I've still, never, seen the Wire win the leagueDoom and gloom, doom and gloom

1 - no answers were given to any of the questions i have put on here.2 - i didnt ask IL the q's for the very reason you said - gives me half a brain - if youd read my post properly youd know that3 - i think vast majority of fans would like to know how the money from trent, higham, calderwood, colborn leaving equates to wages for riddell and amos roberts - seems standard to me?4 - lend us a quid then.

the event is fine, reflecting on it a few days later i suppose it serves a purpose. i am very appreciative to BN for his coaching and him being able to sit through the drivel that preceeded him. in this circumstance IL will always win - he makes the rules for the forum so yeah he should come away looking good.

1/ Can't be bothered looking through 46 pages - What were the questions you wanted to know the ansers too?

2/ If you don't ask the question to IL it's a bit hopeful hoping that he will give you the info to that very same question without him knowing you wanted that info???

3/ Can't believe I'm agreeing with DaveO here but it seems straight forward to me that a Hypothetical 300k could easily be swallowed up by the signings of Roberts/Pryce/Riddell a full years wages for Phelps & smith as opposed to 3 months wages last year and wage rises for at least 1/2 dozen of the younger squad including Hansen (Remember he was part of the Fielden/salary cap argument) J Tomkins, S Tomkins, Goulding et al

He did actually give an answer when he said that youngsters contract were built with incremental pay rises i.e
10/20/30k in years 1,2,3
Or
20/30/40K
Or
30/40/50K

Plus he did say that investing in youth does come at a price! I would say that seems logival to me????

4/ I would quite willingly lend you a quid, where should i send it to & would that mean I have any say in the running of the club?

Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock

"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"

[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]

Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"

[quote="100% Warrior"]All very talented individuals. Although sometimes watching Holland I get the feeling his heart is not 100% in it, having said that I cannot doubt his ability.

In my opinion I would put this the other way around. I would say he gives 100% all of the time and his heart is definitely in it. Whether or not he has the ability to go all the way remains to be seen.

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