If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

I would agree that if your bees are in an area with a great abundance of different pollen that is true. Unfortunately the increasing monoculture makes it more and more difficult to get the diversity needed for strong healthy hives. Beekeepers are a pretty bright bunch overall and they are choosing more and more to spend their hard earned money on pollen sub. because they can see it is helping their bees and not because someone is just making claims. A frame of bees rents for $20 in February and a pound of pollen sub. sells for about a buck.

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

Is there anything to suggest that when bees are given Sub during a time when pollen is available they will target pollens rich in substances they lack?

JimL,
What is needed as additional mite control as a result of feeding protein and what does that look like as practical application in your operation?

Good question about whether they target pollens. My guess is they are after what is most abundant but then I am only guessing. And speaking of guessing, the additional mite control that may be required is pure speculation on my part as well. There is a lot of "don't ask, don't tell" in varroa control. It just makes sense to me that if you choose to keep pushing bees through the fall that some mite issues may arise. To me it's nothing more than simple math that higher populations and longer seasons equates with higher varroa numbers. I have seen operations suffer serious crashes when moving their bees into a different area with abundant late fall and early winter flows.

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

Pollen varies in protein content from less than 10% to over 50% depending on the source.
I remember reading somewhere that they do not automatically collect the pollen with the highest protein content.
Some pollens such as canola contain a complete set of the amino acids needed by bees and others are deficient in some.
Maybe they can collect one to compliment the deficiency in another.

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

So far this thread has mostly been about protein, but I did an unintentional experiment last summer by not harvesting honey until well into September. Even hives which had lots of honey had extremely curtailed brood production and were generally sad looking. I think that during our severe and Long nectar dearth they saved honey for winter, and suffered from malnutrition despite ample honey on the hives. They didn't starve to death they just went on crash diet. This year I'm pulling honey early and feeding throughout any periods of dearth. Which reminds me I need to get some robber screens....

Btw, I think the addition of pungent fall nectar made the honey more interesting. My customers love it - or say they do.

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

Someone posted this link a couple of years ago, but in case you haven't seen it, it has an incredible amount of bee nutritional information--150 pages including over 40 pages of nutritional analysis of various pollens:

"Fat Bees, Skinny Bees -a manual on honey bee nutrition for beekeepers" by the Australian government:

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

One explanation for why the addition of probiotics to pollen subs can enhance nutrition is that the resulting intestinal flora can balance out the nutritional content of the feed since the probiotic strains are producing them from the feed.

For example, you could take a cheap, nutritionally unbalanced feed source, and the probiotic organism could convert that to a more balanced mix of nutrients in the Honeybee gut.

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

Originally Posted by WLC

One explanation for why the addition of probiotics to pollen subs can enhance nutrition is that the resulting intestinal flora can balance out the nutritional content of the feed since the probiotic strains are producing them from the feed.

For example, you could take a cheap, nutritionally unbalanced feed source, and the probiotic organism could convert that to a more balanced mix of nutrients in the Honeybee gut.

I'm not sure that there is one magic ingredient that brings everything to a balance. I believe one famous Sub-producer just recently began to add probiotics to thier sub

Re: rethinking bee nutrition

What if you could take cheap HFCS, add probiotics, AND starter nutrients?

Before everyone moans and groans, just hear me out for a minute.

There's '24 hour' yeasts that can convert sugar to alcohol very quickly because of the added nutrients.

So, while we don't want to make ethanol biofuel, we might want to make up some cheap media that can convert HFCS, and some equally cheap nutrients, into a whole lot of nutritionally balanced (let's say so for the sake of argument) liquid probiotic culture.