In gears 3 I mostly play quick matches because you don't have to find a new lobby constantly...but in the past I always liked execution the most.

That "balls" lag would have to be spectacularly terribad to touch MW3 levels. It's possible in MW3 to empty half of a 50 round mag ON someone, then die. You need 3 bullets to kill. Or my personal favorite is when you die, then and only then does the game show them coming around the corner, already shooting.

Then you watch the kill cam and they rounded the corned, aimed, and shot you while you had a thumb up the @#$. Outside of network tampering I've never seen it that bad in gears unless someone was about to drop. In MW3, they essentially have network tampering BUILT IN sometimes, in order to "compensate" lag and make the game "more fair". Too bad their code blows $#% so the fake lag slung everywhere often gives people huge advantages or disadvantages at random as it tries to adjust.

The balls lag im talking about happens to me all the time in CTL, i can empty an entire Retro or Hammerburst into them*as i don't use the regular lancer much* and they charge me and Gnasher me when on my screen they took every single one of those bullets in the chest and should have been downed. Then again i am running on a Moderate NAT type or whatever and it may be causing lag, but still. Its horrible for me, plus all the freaking modders just make my veins pop.

I gotta say, I feel they should do more to obvious modders (track input rates + rhythm or something). It's minor cheating, but it's cheating.

Moderate nat with a bad or even average connection can really hose you if everyone else has very low ping due to servers. It's like playing vs everyone else having host advantage in other gears, and only you don't have it. Of course that's going to suck.

BTW, active lancer + feather trigger + headshots is serious trouble. You can down people SO fast, even at fairly long distances. An example is standing on the overlook on sandbar, and dropping them before they can round the corner from spawn and run to the next bit of cover. If you're on target you can down like that!

People can just wallbounce...but they'll have to literally wallbounce everywhere and it's not nearly as good at those distances as it is up close (you have to hipfire vs good wallbouncing). For those of you who haven't tried it I recommend trying it out; tap the lancer in fast bursts to control the recoil a bit and hit people in the upper torso + head. With a head shot + active, you do DOUBLE damage (lancer gets a 1.5 head multiplier and 1.5 active multiplier; this is one of the highest active multipliers in the game, and it comes on one of the easiest if not THE easiest guns to active!). 5 rounds of an active lancer to the head will down someone. It's not easy to react to that and even if you do you're 4 pointed. Getting crossed is devastating.

Even if not every shot hits the head, 3-4 hitting the head while the rest hit upper torso/neck will down someone in 7-8 bullets. Fire a lancer and see how long it takes to spit 10 bullets out. Now think about how long it will take if that target has already taken even a modest shotgun blast. It's ridiculous and a lot of you guys have the skill to place those headshots.

Neither the retro nor the hammerburst has that multiplier, and their actives do less for them too. However, the retro is absolutely incredible up close. IMO the hammerburst kind of sucks without the cheat mods because it takes 8 rounds to down no matter where you hit at all ranges, and on a 20 round clip. You can't possibly down + kill more than 2 people without reloading; lancer has enough rounds to down 6 w/o actives or head shots though in practice it can only kill 3-4. Still, that matters.

I don't use the Lancer BECAUSE of those facts. It makes the game less fun being able to kill that easily, and as you said it really does not take that much skill as we all could probably do it. Thats all i really have to say about the regular Lancer, i just really don't like how easy it is to use so i just use the other two guns. I even use the Hammerburst in Gears 1 and 2 so its not like i JUST changed my mind about it or anything, i just really don't like it haha.

i only used hammer... In gow 1 as it only worked for me there as it was tri-shot weapon which worked great with bad connections saving my ass, and in other gears' i disliked the way it looked and worked it was just... Crap!! But gnasher like always saves asses in 1v1 combat, i was sooo freaking good with it but... Well gow 2 spoiled my skills from its crappy engines and stuff, its quite hard to explainOne more thing there should be an option so that u can choose to play with those that play in ur country so that server connection is fairly working and so that combat is atleast 80% fair (cant be more cuz people cheat), well mostly...

Gears of War is boring when you try to hard to win. I honestly have more fun losing a fun shotgun match then winning a camping lancer match. That's just me and my opinion along with the 200,000 players who quit playing Gears due to the fact they can't stand the weapons power now.

Lancer matches only result in camping if one side is already winning. Otherwise there will be flanking and at least some close range play.

However, if attempting to win (IE playing the game at all!) is boring, possibly it's not a good fit for the person playing it.

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If you indeed don't believe me on these statitics Gears of War 3 had 300,000 players online consistantly the first week and is now barely pushing 50,000 sometimes 70,000-100,000 players online during events

You don't know why each person quit. Nobody does. You apparently like shotgun charging and still play. Why wouldn't the others? It's also normal across over half of a year for the #players to drop. How many players were on gears 2 at the 7-8 month range?

Also, the way you're arguing against lancer usage as I describe seems to actually confirm it's a more effective way to play even if you don't like it.

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People go online to play a game because they just want to relax have fun and kill some people and not worry about what would be the best way to kill someone a cheap and cowardish way.

When attempting to kill someone, killing them more consistently is a good thing.

"Cheap and cowardish" comment does nothing that I didn't do by calling hiding with a shotgun instead of shooting at someone in a shooter cowardish. It's 2 sides of the same coin. It is almost beyond belief, however, that an experienced player would call the DEFAULT weapon which EVERYONE starts with and is INTENDED to be used as "cheap". That's painful. I didn't know teamwork and shooting at someone was "cheap" lol.

Lancer was weaker in earlier gears because of the crummy net code. In gears 3 it was buffed IIRC, but so was the gnasher! Even in the older games, however, crossing somebody with lancer fire was very effective and lethal. All the way back to gears 1, lancer hip spray was a serious threat especially with actives (it was also much better vs chainsaw users because even 1-2 bullets would drop the chainsaw). Gears 1 players didn't like it either. I got kicked from quite a few lobbies because I shot people from a distance and outplayed them. I actually think your typical gears player is more amenable to good play now than back then.

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Its kinda of hard for me to enjoy any online match in Gears anymore. I've found so many modders its ridiculous, and the host lag has just been getting worse and worse with every new DLC and update.

I could do without the modders. I would vastly prefer to do without them actually. 480 rpm hammerburst with 8 rounds needed to down someone is annoying.

Lag is only even noticeable at times in this game. If you think the lag in this game is bad you're spoiled, it is AWFUL in other games and it was leagues worse in gears 2.

You type way to much. Everything you type is an essay.. Nothing wrong with that except it's a pain in the ass to read lol.

Anyways, I don't hide with my shotgun, anyone who has played with me knows that. Wall-bouncing is not cheating, everyone can do it. You can consider it "cheap" but it's not cheating.

Lancer games= boring and annoying.

Shotgun games= Fun and exciting. Anyone can win it. Good players are actually that ones on top.

If you use a retro and sawed-off your legally bad.. Or using a Modded controller with Hammerburst and Sawed-Off your legally bad. These types of people who have this as there loadout I wish would quit the game..

Oh and to the 300,000 to 50,000 that's terrible. It dropped to those number 3 months after the release not 8. People played the game for the first week and already started getting bored. No matter the reason, that is terrible for the most anticipated game of 2011. Black Ops still has 130,000 on at all times. While gears has 50,000.

I know the reason to that though "people play COD because it's easy". People play COD because it's normally the first game they buy because either A there buddy has it or B they are 14 years or younger who just got Xbox LIVE.

Honestly, I bet if they took out the Sawed-Off and lowered the AR power a lot of people would come back. Just those changes would bring people back. People demanded a Classic Mode since day 1. If they would just listen instead of giving us this Alpha BS we would be happier. Classic Mode as in classic weapon damage and no Retro or Sawed-Off with all the game modes. Not just KoH and TDM.

Lancer games= Fun and exciting. Anyone can win it. Good players are actually that ones on top.

Shotgun games= boring and annoying.

Do you see the problem here? Your argument is so absolutely canned, that the words can be flipped and the entire argument structure is identical. That's a horrid way to go about debating. Say something of value!

Speaking of which: gnasher games actually have higher outcome variance (IE worse players beat good more often). The reason is that the kill on either side is nigh-on instant and when picking evasion direction/choices and leading someone and firing there you HAVE to guess unless your opponent sucks. That means that if you're playing shotguns within gib range, the better player will usually win, but will also guess wrongly on occasion or get dropped.

Lancer games don't have that issue. Lancer games are about map control and position, as well as pure distance aim (especially for head shots). Some say the lancer isn't skillful. Firing at 6x + the gnasher's range with actives and hitting the head against a moving target isn't skillful? And of course those same guys will claim that making sure the enemy is in the lower-left part of the middle of their screen before pulling the trigger is somehow very skilled lol.

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If you use a retro and sawed-off your legally bad

Retro is okish but IMO an inferior weapon to lancer. It has devastating power but the recoil makes it junky at extreme ranges, it gets no headshot multiplier, and its hip requires being VERY close.

The sawed-off is a trash weapon. It's worse than the gnasher in every way. Players who run it are either trolling terrible opposition or stupidly picking an inferior weapon. Less gib range, less effective range, less ammunition, less ability to kill multiple opponents ALL traded away for a slightly wider blast radius. Painful.

Mod hammerburst is cheating. Gaming has no place for cheaters.

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Honestly, I bet if they took out the Sawed-Off and lowered the AR power a lot of people would come back.

I bet not. Gears has never held the popularity long-term that the super popular 1st person shooters have. ARs are the primaries and the most versatile weapons, but they're still not better than the gnasher up close. I'm tired of the babies who complain to me because they charge headlong instead of flanking and die to lancer fire. Don't roll into it!

Encouraging pure shotgun over map control would dumb down the game. Map control would lose some importance and that would hurt a lot. Gears has always been about map control, even if weak players claim otherwise. Shotguns only contribute to that insofar as close quarters encounters happen. Why have large maps if only 1 person per team has the ability to do meaningful damage across them? Spawn everyone into a room with no cover and just gnasher all day in a big box.

You do realize that asking for classic weapon damage would *also* mean nerfing the gnasher, right?

You do realize this thread won't have even the slightest impact on how people choose to play, don't you? Honestly, lol, I just find it so pointless. The energy you spend and time you invest into something so meaningless could be better put into idk... fapping maybe? Nothing's going to change. You have two options: adapt or leave.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some of that "energy and time" I mentioned to invest.

You do realize this thread won't have even the slightest impact on how people choose to play, don't you? Honestly, lol, I just find it so pointless. The energy you spend and time you invest into something so meaningless could be better put into idk... fapping maybe? Nothing's going to change. You have two options: adapt or leave.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some of that "energy and time" I mentioned to invest.

Well, at least other people say something relevant to the discussion. I didn't realize it was such a burden to read a forum page or two.

Besides, how do you "adapt" to awful teammates? Party up. At least I was able to add a few people as a result of this, though we haven't played yet. Hopefully I can teach them the way of things and help them get some scores/round over 500 lol.

You do realize this thread won't have even the slightest impact on how people choose to play, don't you? Honestly, lol, I just find it so pointless. The energy you spend and time you invest into something so meaningless could be better put into idk... fapping maybe? Nothing's going to change. You have two options: adapt or leave.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some of that "energy and time" I mentioned to invest.

Well, at least other people say something relevant to the discussion. I didn't realize it was such a burden to read a forum page or two.

Besides, how do you "adapt" to awful teammates? Party up. At least I was able to add a few people as a result of this, though we haven't played yet. Hopefully I can teach them the way of things and help them get some scores/round over 500 lol.

If that was your way of "ass"uming the people who you have added, then you just voided your entire discussion...

Lancer games= Fun and exciting. Anyone can win it. Good players are actually that ones on top.

Shotgun games= boring and annoying.

Do you see the problem here? Your argument is so absolutely canned, that the words can be flipped and the entire argument structure is identical. That's a horrid way to go about debating. Say something of value!

Speaking of which: gnasher games actually have higher outcome variance (IE worse players beat good more often). The reason is that the kill on either side is nigh-on instant and when picking evasion direction/choices and leading someone and firing there you HAVE to guess unless your opponent sucks. That means that if you're playing shotguns within gib range, the better player will usually win, but will also guess wrongly on occasion or get dropped.

Lancer games don't have that issue. Lancer games are about map control and position, as well as pure distance aim (especially for head shots). Some say the lancer isn't skillful. Firing at 6x + the gnasher's range with actives and hitting the head against a moving target isn't skillful? And of course those same guys will claim that making sure the enemy is in the lower-left part of the middle of their screen before pulling the trigger is somehow very skilled lol.

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If you use a retro and sawed-off your legally bad

Retro is okish but IMO an inferior weapon to lancer. It has devastating power but the recoil makes it junky at extreme ranges, it gets no headshot multiplier, and its hip requires being VERY close.

The sawed-off is a trash weapon. It's worse than the gnasher in every way. Players who run it are either trolling terrible opposition or stupidly picking an inferior weapon. Less gib range, less effective range, less ammunition, less ability to kill multiple opponents ALL traded away for a slightly wider blast radius. Painful.

Mod hammerburst is cheating. Gaming has no place for cheaters.

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Honestly, I bet if they took out the Sawed-Off and lowered the AR power a lot of people would come back.

I bet not. Gears has never held the popularity long-term that the super popular 1st person shooters have. ARs are the primaries and the most versatile weapons, but they're still not better than the gnasher up close. I'm tired of the babies who complain to me because they charge headlong instead of flanking and die to lancer fire. Don't roll into it!

Encouraging pure shotgun over map control would dumb down the game. Map control would lose some importance and that would hurt a lot. Gears has always been about map control, even if weak players claim otherwise. Shotguns only contribute to that insofar as close quarters encounters happen. Why have large maps if only 1 person per team has the ability to do meaningful damage across them? Spawn everyone into a room with no cover and just gnasher all day in a big box.

You do realize that asking for classic weapon damage would *also* mean nerfing the gnasher, right?

Gnasher was stronger in the previous 2 games then it is now... gnasher in Gears 2 was very effective even from 30feet away. Though Gears 2 was broken it was still fun.

You are wrong about Gears holding popularity to the other games. Look it up on google. It will tell you. Gears isn't even in the top 10 played anymore.

Now for the fact you support the new way Gears is played already tells me I'm just going to drop talking in this convo because I don't agree with you no matter how many paragraphs or essays you add in. Lancer is for people who hide back because they couldn't handle the shotgun game the other 2 supplied. It's quite simple. Those who support the Assault rifle power now, are the people who couldn't adjust to the gnasher back then. Just saying.. Most people who say "I can use the Gnasher easy." While constantly lancering.. I beat a kid 15- 3 because he had no idea on how to fight without having his lancer or 4 other guys at his back. By the time it was 10-1 I let the kid pull out a Sawed-Off which is how he got the 3. Simple fact is the kid was a COD based player.

Btw I only use Gnasher and Wallbounce and I am Normally one of the top players every game. I got the onyx on the MVP and I do not boost. I'm actually headed on my second trip to getting it. Sadly part I only played like 1,400 matches online and out them I have 713MVPs. Out of the matches I play I'm MVP in half of them.

Gnasher was stronger in the previous 2 games then it is now... gnasher in Gears 2 was very effective even from 30feet away. Though Gears 2 was broken it was still fun.

Gnasher seemed stronger due to lag factor. It wasn't.

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You are wrong about Gears holding popularity to the other games. Look it up on google. It will tell you. Gears isn't even in the top 10 played anymore.

Didn't say it was. What I asked was whether gears 1 or gears 2 had MORE people playing 7+ months in than gears 3. If not, you can't really claim a drop in popularity because of weapon balance.

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Lancer is for people who hide back because they couldn't handle the shotgun game the other 2 supplied. It's quite simple.

Gnasher is for people who can't handle map awareness and movement sense and therefore must try to decide encounters up close. It's quite simple.

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Those who support the Assault rifle power now, are the people who couldn't adjust to the gnasher back then.

Making claims without evidence is fun, isn't it? But it doesn't strengthen an argument.

It's fun to boast about MVP etc. What's your W/L with randoms for teammates? It's good that you pull mvp in 1/2 of matches though. That means you're actually putting up damage, and are not one of the people who hide with shotguns.

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If that was your way of "ass"uming the people who you have added, then you just voided your entire discussion...

Came off differently than I meant it. I know all too well what it's like to have crummy teammates. They drag your score/min. You have solid W/L and the other stats I read tell me that you'd be much better in a party than alone. As for teaching the way of things, I'm referring to the power areas.

I haven't read through this entire thread I've only skimmed through it.

Epics take on wall bouncing is 'it's a skill'

You appear to be a 'solid and consistent' Gears player TheMeInTeam but I on the other hand lack consistency. I'll tell you why, sometimes I like to play the 'team game' and hold back with my lancer (forget this retro and hammerburst shit they are excluded from the rest of this post).

Then sometimes I like to run in with my Gnasher and relive the old Gears 1 days (Mansion, Gridlock etc.).

Sometimes when I spawn I switch straight to Gnasher (and forget that dam fukin Sawed Off). Because I like to go head to head against another Gnasher user.

Currently I'm playing the Forces of Nature 'We're all stranded' mode and although you can't get your friends in and there aint no party chat believe me that is the best mode to be in right now if you like to play the team game. I put my Gnasher away alot in that mode and after playing it for a few days I can only agree on alot of your points. People stick more together when joined with randoms, there are no stacked teams, clans or buddies it's everyman/woman for themself but somehow for some reason everyone 'team plays' in that mode and it's a rarity in Gears 3 even when playing with friends!

But then again I might want to play the usual TDM and play solo running around with my Gnasher either killing or dying trying. It's fun, it's a different style of playing and if you ask me why I do that sometimes, it's because I can, simple.

The scenarios you paint to be answered can't possibly be answered since it all depends on the circumstances. Where everyone is at a given time, what weapons have been taken, how much time is left, what respawns are left, the ability of everyone on the map both on your team and on the enemy team. It's all random and you can only truly answer that if you are there in the match at the moment.

I could say I would go up to Mortar with my team, although I would really only do that if I was playing the team game and I was having a bad run. Then I could say I would get out my Gnasher and go all guns blazing trying to be a hero and go in the church. Then I could say I would wait around the Ink spawns in a more sneaky approach. But then there are so many other factors to consider you just can't answer it unless you are there.

gnashers are ALWAYS weapons for the skilled u cant change that mate, even if u tried, it is not up to u how the game works, i too dont loke the wall bouncing, but i started not to care about it, only thing i care is ”Die to win, or die for fun”, thats my motto, if u dont like to play this way just leave like he said, or fit into the group...

gnashers are ALWAYS weapons for the skilled u cant change that mate, even if u tried, it is not up to u how the game works, i too dont loke the wall bouncing, but i started not to care about it, only thing i care is ”Die to win, or die for fun”, thats my motto, if u dont like to play this way just leave like he said, or fit into the group...

When I hear claims that the gnasher takes skill and the lancer doesn't, it leads one to conclude that said person doesn't know how to properly use the lancer and therefore forgoes it. You can say that hip fire gnasher is skillful while aiming and consistently hitting people running/jumping everywhere from range with the lancer isn't...but you'd be wrong. What separates a good player from a bad player with the lancer is 1) how consistently they track people and know where to shoot and 2) once they have a target, how consistently they can down and kill them from range. The only real difference from the gnasher is the range.

I don't believe I ever said anything bad about wall bouncing on this thread (other than that it's only effective when your opponent is close). I said it was like any other aspect of play. IMO, if you're going to run gnasher vs AR you kind of need it sometimes, and it helps vs other gnasher too. Active lancer will cut you down in < 10 shots which is a very short time even hip sprayed. Making them miss is important. Well, that and the gnasher absolutely should be active too. I simply can't believe the number of players I play with and against that don't whore actives all game long. It takes a little practice, but it's not like keeping some active rounds in the chamber is some extreme difficulty.

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I could say I would go up to Mortar with my team, although I would really only do that if I was playing the team game and I was having a bad run. Then I could say I would get out my Gnasher and go all guns blazing trying to be a hero and go in the church.

The church is a proxy nade fest with 0 map coverage. The only time I've ever seen a team win by hiding in there is when the team outside is stupid enough to chase them into it.

There's not a lot you can do vs the proxy nades. You can smoke to destroy one, sometimes, but otherwise you can't push in aggressively because they'll kill you...but if you don't push in aggressively the other team can line a shot on you easily. It's a silly exercise and perhaps worst of all, it rewards the opponent for playing like a @#$%$ and hiding. If you don't go in there, they HAVE to come out.

There's nothing wrong with picking up some inks, and if you take cover in that area while your team has top you can cross people from there with help from teammates on the balcony if for some reason the other team is staying near their own ink area. You do risk spawn flip back-shot spawn protection BS if you hang out there too long though, unless nobody on your team pushes their spawn.

This has always been an AR first game, even since back in gears 1. Lancer was weaker back then, but team-firing actives was still extremely lethal and the gnasher was still a close range weapon only. Crossing people was still devastating. The maps were arranged such that there were times where the gnasher was clearly the best weapon to have out, but the reality of how the game plays hasn't actually changed that much, just to some extent the mentality of the community. I was kicked out of so many lobbies for using the lancer in GoW 1 back in the day, and it wasn't because I was doing BADLY with it :p. People always hated the AR, even though it's the signature weapon of gears!

there is no skill in using lancers not even hammers, they are just overpowered, well hammerburst got weaker now but though the best rifle for skilled is RL, its a propely adjusted, nor overpowered nor not enough powered weapon, and its easiest to farm medals for it as u can just charge at ppl, same goes for gnashers which beat sawed as its not far over powered, and is quite good in long range, although i always like the snub

Come to think of it I would take the sneaky approach near the ink grenades, I wouldn't pick them up otherwise they might notice it on the kill feed and know I'm there left or right outside the church. I'd slowly creep towards the entrance mentally noting the enemies positions and what happens next all depends on time left/spawns left. I spot every enemy it's automatic now so that would help the rest of the team in there next moves.

But that's if I'm playing with randoms. If I'm playing with a team of friends we would just stack 2 on each door lob in some smokes get out the Gnashers and go in all guns blazing for a mass shootout

there is no skill in using lancers not even hammers, they are just overpowered

I have given more than one argument for why this isn't true. If you want the assertion that it *is* true to be taken seriously, you should develop the argument rather than just claiming something. I can claim that the snub is the strongest weapon (including pickups) in the game and say nothing else, and it would make just as much sense as what I just quoted.

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but though the best rifle for skilled is RL, its a propely adjusted, nor overpowered nor not enough powered weapon,

Retro needs too much trigger feathering at range, and at shorter ranges it has to compete with the gnasher and all you have to do with it is put it on the center of their body and pull the trigger. How is that the "best rifle for skilled"? If you use the lancer, you are *strongly* rewarded for headshots AND more strongly rewarded for actives. Suddenly body-shotting someone up close is more "skillful" than hitting someone running/rolling at range in the head with actives? Really?

Don't get me wrong, retro is a good weapon. However, I don't like it because it conflicts with the gnasher's role too much. In the ranges where it reliably beats the lancer, the gnasher is a good choice and can down people in 2-3 blasts with actives or close a bit of distance for OHKO!

Gnasher >>>>> Sawed off. Sawed off gives up pretty much everything (range, ability to keep shooting, meaningful actives) just to get a wider kill radius. It's a trash weapon especially post-nerf but even before. The only use it has is to cherry tap or troll people.

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Come to think of it I would take the sneaky approach near the ink grenades, I wouldn't pick them up otherwise they might notice it on the kill feed and know I'm there left or right outside the church.

Sigh. Really? If your teammates are on the balcony, how is the other side going to run out of the church to kill you? The ONLY way that happens is if your team sucks, and badly. If they have a mic they can easily call out their movement, but even if they don't they can at least spot. A reasonably competent (not even necessarily good) player on the balcony would probably 4 point or kill someone rushing you outright.

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But that's if I'm playing with randoms. If I'm playing with a team of friends we would just stack 2 on each door lob in some smokes get out the Gnashers and go in all guns blazing for a mass shootout Shoot

Once again, unless the smokes get lucky and happen to land right next to a nade plant in the chairs, around one corner or another, etc you're going to be going in 4v5 or even 3v5. Now, with friends you can probably get away with such inferior play choices, but it's still an inferior choice. The team inside HAS to come out, or they lose. Guess who gets forced into a 3v5 if they come out instead of you going in? Thank some proxy inks or just team-fire from the balcony. Their team isn't going anywhere. Hell, you could put all 5 people on the balcony, 3 watching one door and 2 the other. If your guys are good with the lancer, maybe 2 of their team makes it out of there alive. Maybe.

Admittedly, if you're up 8+ stock it's probably OK to just zerg them to death as it will save time.

You really are paranoid about those nades lol. The worst there could be is 2 planted but as I keep trying to stress it's all dependant. I say 2 because of the amount of time they've been camping in there, not just to pick em and plant em but the weapon respawn time and again it's all dependant on how long they've been in there and how much time as passed by, the longer it's left the more dug in they will become, if my team as more respawns then I don't mind running in even if it's just to remove planted grenades, now that right there is team play.

But anyhow I don't mind taking a hit for the team, if I dove on in there and got blown up by a planted grenade then surely that paves a clear path for a team mate or 2 to follow up.

And getting back on the ink grenade area sneaky tactic thing. It was said on the assumption I was playing with randoms. The point you made was assuming I was with a good team. When I say playing with randoms it's exactly that, some team members might be noobs or veterans or anything and everything in between. In your picture you have 2 up at Mortar, who's to say 1 is a skilled player and the other is just a tag along (tag along being as in oh it's safe up here this guy knows what he is doing), either way it's useless to go up there so that's out of the equation I'm sure you can at least agree on that!