Will not having a degree hurt me later in my career?

I'll be joining Amazon soon as L4 with 1.5 yoe at $185k TC and I'm a college dropout from Carnegie Mellon. Two years ago, I started FreeCodeCamp and instantly fell in love with coding, especially algorithms. Finished most of the front-end module in 4 days and realized I may have an aptitude towards coding. Immediately, I went to a coding bootcamp and it worked out. I've been studying hard for the past two years since and now I landed at Amazon (didn't make it at Google. Hopefully next time).

What I want to know is, will my career slow down and will there be a ceiling I can't cross because I don't have a degree? Will I have to fight for promotion every time because I'm a dropout?

I would love to finish a degree if I can find the time but that would be hard. I looked at Columbia and NYU but they don't offer a part-time CS option. I am not sure if I can take the time off.

Is having a degree important in the later portion of my career? Also, I'm not talking about Bill Gates and Zuck not having degrees. I'm talking about more realistic levels. And please be brutally honest.

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Edit: Thank you very much for many encouraging replies. It is great to see that work performance is emphasized over a degree. For the next two years or so, I want to concentrate on kicking ass at Amazon and then I will look into whether I want to go back to school or continue self-studying.

For the past two years, I have been working hard to fill in the missing gaps in my CS knowledge, and I will continue to do so throughout my career. I love coding and I enjoy delving into rabbit holes. For example, I'm currently reading a book on computation - https://computationbook.com and it is so exciting finally learning how computers _compute_ things. Whether I go back to school or not, I am continuing my studies just because of the simple fact that it's fun.

As someone who went to one of the better colleges for CS in US for 4 years completed all but 2 courses of the program. So even though I have the full education but no degree to show for it, I'd say PayPal here is a fool.

1 yr of technical school and 17YOE. Solutions Architect. I’ve made my career by being dependable, ability to execute the toughest projects, Lead, communicate and be a team player. I also reside on steering committees in my area of expertise with the best in the business.

Degrees are overrated. Whether or not you have one. Stand in front of it and Go. Don’t hold it up in front of you expecting stuff to happen.

Would you be able to build an skyscraper with no foundation? I think with no school you may be able to work in tech but there will be many things that you will be weak on. Besides attending to school itself is an experience IMO

If there were half as many resources available to self-learn skyscraper building as there are to learn software development, then one could indeed teach themselves to build a skyscraper over time with practice. The difference is, software development is inherently open to learning from failure, whereas skyscrapers aren’t too forgiving.

L66 here, 18 years and no degree. I’ve personally seen it work the other way. I will say that I feel like the exception as most of my peers have advanced degrees. With no degree, it takes a lot of luck to get in the door but your smarts will keep you there.

Dude, you don't drop out of Carnegie Mellon. I am a CMU grad currently working at google research. Not saying I did well. If you had a chance to study at CMU, that was your chance. Why did you drop out? I interview lots of candidates mostly phds from Stanford, mit, Harvard and the like. CMU grads stand out, CMU had the best cs program if you actually put your 4 years into it. Can you go back to CMU? Please do that and contact me. Good luck! You were at CMU!!!

I'm a FAANG recruiter and I've been working in tech for the past 10 years. Almost every single one of my hiring managers I've partnered with would take experience over a degree any day of the week so I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you're working in a very specialized area, you'll be fine :)

Not survivorship bias. I have a physics degree and it’s never been an issue. Hiring committee look at your feedback packet and really give zero cares about if or where you went to school. The only hurdle is getting your first gig but it looks like OP has already crossed that bridge. With AMZN on their resume they’ll have no issue getting at least a phone screen anywhere as long as they’re not a total asshat.

Sure you'll get a phone screening, but let's be honest, any good tech company will be receiving hundreds of resumes listing big names like Amzn. Most of these candidates will have completed degrees as well which can be leveraged against u in this aspect

No one gives a fuck about your degree. Work experience is going to trump it every time. I’ve been a hiring manager for &gt 7 years all in FAANG/unicorns and where you went to school is factored into the hiring decision precisely 0% of the time. The only time it comes into play will be for your first role where a PhD will get you one extra level. Masters degree gets no special treatment. Some of the best engineers I’ve worked with had no formal education in CS.

I can't believe no one has mentioned this but all of these companies offer a tuition assistance program. Take the job and then finish out your degree while your company pays you. It's the best of both worlds.

SanHolos post is grossly inaccurate. First of all, the average cost of an in state four year college is $9500 if attending full time. Even if a company only offers $3500 per year in assistance (most are between $5-10k), this almost covers the cost of attending half time, which is a huge help. Sure the student may need to cover some cost on their own, but not much. In addition, tuition reimbursement typically has a 12 month clawback from the date of payout. If you leave 12 months after the last payout, you will owe nothing. If you leave immediately after, you will only owe what the employer paid in reimbursement in the last 12 months, not what they paid over the entire course of the program.

I got my degree last year. At age 32 after being a software eng for 7 years. I will tell you it didn’t do shit for me.... didn’t open doors like I expected. However some hiring manager may deny you simply for not having one. You may lose out on a promotion to someone with a masters who can’t code for shit. Tech is a pretentious elitist industry so get that degree simply as a back up for when you may need it.

To answer your question, you will be fine without it. But expect some stupid rejections for jobs you are well qualified for just because you don’t have a degree.

You should try to get a degree if you can. Sometimes it’s not about your field of expertise but other aspects of your life. For example, human psychology and communications will help you in relationships. There’s a reason for a college degree. Get it while you still have the drive and brain power to do so

You will be fine. Just make sure you always continue studying the relevant CS and Eng (Coursera, OCW, etc are amazing) topics at your own and have stuff to show off - strong company and/or strong open source back ground. I know several, including myself, on the same boat.

Thanks a ton. After seeing the responses in this thread, I think I will continue with the self-study path. I will continue taking the online courses and build myself a curriculum. Also, becoming a strong contributor for a major project sounds like a great idea. Again, thanks for clarifying the path for me.

TBH those advices are really for everyone who wants to succeed as software engineers. However because you don’t have a degree it is recommended to do that extra mile to prove yourself. At least that worked really well for me (I am a YOE 12).

Just a fun story: I have been on an on-site interview where the HM told me in a sort of intimidating way that everyone else applying had MSc or PhD and that the position required a lot of CS knowledge (distributed file system position). I just respectfully said “Ok then, just give me the test and you tell me if I have what it takes”. They ended up offering me the job and I rejected because I got something better elsewhere.

I have also always felt the need to prove myself. I feel that I have no room for the benefit of the doubt and I must entirely and absolutely kick ass at all the interviews. I think I've been able to channel this feeling of having a chip on my shoulder into positive outcomes.

Do yourself a favor and get a degree. It may seem like a stretch given you did pretty well without it but having a degree does help. There are many online degree programs from some very good schools so getting selected again wont be a problem.

I would like to put my opinions here. Having a degree is a must and you should aim for that. Believe me, it would hurt you. Don't get attracted by the high salary now. I would recommend to earn for one year and then go back to complete your degree if you need money to pay your tuition.

You might not be in same situation as I am but just giving an example of where it can hurt. For immigrants in USA, degree in relevant field is very important to get valid work visa. In future if you decide to work in some other country, then having an educational degree is a must.

It will not matter much. Although, in Amazon promotion packet, educational qualifications is a section, it's hardly looked at in over the 100 promo panels I have looked at. Your accomplishments matter more. That said, education is something you should always strive to acquire even if not through a formal degree.You can do a lot through boot camps and stack overflow today, but some of the intuitions you develop by learning's computer science from the ground up is valuable in subtle but impactful ways.Khan academy and other online courses are an option. Georgia tech has very good online degrees.

Good luck. I cheer you on as I watch the brave New world unshackled from the exorbitant world of institutional education. Lead on!!

When does it matter?1. When you want to work in a different country and get a citizenship there.2. To get noticed by recruiters 3. If you took a break from learning new things.4. Switch roles5. Growing to the tip (top most) point of the pyramid in a company that you do not own.

When does it not matter?1. If you exceed in every aspect 2 have a lot of knowledge and when you keep learning and leading systems3. Treating ur self as an entrepreneur more and employee

As others have said the degree gets you in the door. After that it really is performance based. Very few people care and instead look at what you’ve done recently, and a successful run at Amazon can be worth more than any degree.

Sky is the limit. I never finished my degree and have held senior director roles in both government and private sector. Next week i am joining Amazon as a L7 (tech) senior manager. Again hard work, persistence, and delivering results will take you as far as you want to go.

I dropped out after a couple years. I felt a little insecure at times, but the lack of degree hasn’t hurt my career. I definitely value my experiences in my couple years of college, though. ~25yoe, ~500k mean tc over past 5 yrs.

I *am* hindered by the same thing that made completing school impossible. My brain isn’t quite right - “ADHD” is the diagnosis, but I wouldn’t be shocked to find I’ve got more fucked up between the ears than that. It is pretty unlikely I will make it beyond L6@goog.

Dropped out of school with 1 quarter of general electives left. Just couldn't bring myself to finish, but I had a job offer at the time. Diagnosed with ADHD around the same time. I feel extremely competent and reliable when I'm on Adderall, but totally useless when I'm not. Definitely had an epiphany when I realized why I couldn't just "apply myself" for my entire schooling life.

No disrespect but is amazons recruiting process flawed? You did a boot camp and then 1.5 years later come in as a senior role? I’m sure your bright but common. Another example of why technical interviews are a total joke.

Most people who've responded here seem to be working in the tech industry. I don't work in tech, and I just finished grad business school so I'd like to give you a different perspective.

Had you not given details about your path and your aspirations, I would have said definitely get a degree. A degree typically does two things - gives you knowledge, and gives you an attestation that you have specific knowledge, sometimes not both ;) but you get what I mean. Given your path, there is a very high likelihood that you'll do just fine without finishing school.

Consider this scenario: the market conditions change drastically over the next ten years and suddenly there is no place for non grads? Not likely but not impossible. Consider another scenario: you get bored of this and want to switch into another industry and do something completely different. Not all industries hire people without a degree for skilled jobs like tech currently does. In both those scenarios you may have an edge if you have that attestation or diploma on your resume.

Given the path you've taken and the estimate of your ability that I've drawn out, I'm sure you'll succeed no matter what, cause you'll always find a way out. However in more scenarios than less, the path you carve will be restricted by your aptitude, skills, and luck. You may just have one less door open without a degree. I won't comment on one less door out of two or two hundred.

Even if the market doesn't change, this is right. It also gives you a story - I made it to Amazon without s degree, but realized there was still value in learning and gaining my degree, so I went back part time and was able to bring the skills learned to Amazon

I’ve worked with engineers with CS masters degrees, CS bachelors, unrelated STEM degrees, unrelated non-STEM degrees, and even one who technically doesn’t even have a high school diploma. It never mattered to me or the companies I worked for. I have an unrelated STEM degree myself, and nobody ever even asked about it past my first job.

You ask if your career (presumably in software engineering / software engineering management) will be hurt later, and the answer to that is, IMO, no. There will be companies who won’t hire you because you have no degree, but you probably don’t want to work for them, anyway.

I would do some independent studying at the level of an intro algorithms and data structures class, and more advanced topics related to your work (likely databases and distributed systems, maybe others). It never hurts to know a thing or two about areas adjacent to your work, either (maybe graph theory, queuing theory, operating systems, etc.). This is what’s going to help your career in the long run, much more than a CS bachelor’s degree. And you can get it for $1.50 in late fees at the public library instead of spending thousands of dollars on a degree.

The only scenario in which I’d advise getting a degree is if you wanted to move to data science, ML, or another related field and needed a foothold you couldn’t get on your own. Even MBA programs would probably accept you based on work experience.

Only way it could hurt you is if you ever want to apply for a visa in another country. Depending on you having (or not) a degree there are countries where the immigration process would become much more complex. If you plan to live in the US forever you're good.

I was in your same position 15 years ago. I had some self doubt about not having a degree and also thought it may limit me.

Time proved that if you work for a meritocracy you’ll be rewarded and nobody will care. I’ve worked for FANG companies, and have offers from others to top-level positions with 600+ TC. Never has a degree been an issue once my track record was established.

Now, if I were going into governmental work, they probably wouldn’t consider me. But I’m at the stage when I wouldn’t consider working for anyone who imposes such an arbitrary requirement either.

I don’t care if you have a degree or not. But you should def read some foundational CS books. Don’t Care of you pass the exams or have an expensive printed paper confirmation. Just Algos, computer Networks, crypto and discrete math books and look up someOf the amazing advanced data structured lectures on YouTube from MIT. I personally don’t care for a lot of the coursera crap. mIT open courseware still beats the shit out of all of them for foundational CS stuff. Even 10 years later.

Please don't do this in a shady manner... ie don't mention a degree or something. That is why companies do background checks once the offer is accepted. If it comes out, you could be blacklisted by that company and any company who uses the same background check company.

hey OP here. most background checks will verify your education history. the background check will contain the start date, the end date and whether you completed a degree. + 1 on not fudging this at all even slightly. i have always been 100% upfront about it and it has never been a problem.

Also a college dropout in tech. Best decision I’ve ever made. Now leading team with people 1.5-2x my age.

If you’re committed to growth and your career you will be fine. The more you’ve done, the less anyone will even remotely care. It is at a point now for me where it’s often seen as a strength in people’s perception, which at the end of the day is the most important thing for career movement.

IMO those in tech who define their employment value by their degree more than a few years in industry haven’t achieved anything meaningful or at least don’t know how to talk about their trajectory/narrative.

Thanks! I’m an L5 (23, started working in FANG at 18, spent time in startups that were successful, etc).

The only pressure I had for lack of degree was when I was a totally unknown quantity in interviews back when I was just starting out. I improved this thru networking into VCs for intros to portfolio companies while interning at a FANG company.

Getting intros from people is IMO the best way to get around low level recruiters screening you for stupid reasons.

Degree smagree. If I could do it all over again, I would take a year off to settle into adulting on my own, look for individual skill building trades, certifications and licenses and get after it. Wasted a lot of money for super expensive, big named college, private university. NOT WORTH IT.

Got a degree from a top 10 cs program at public university essentially for free. There is no reason to pay a lot of money for a private college CS degree when there are so many good public options. Many states have scholarships if you maintain a certain GPA.

Probably won’t hurt you. You can just say you attended CMU and that will be enough to impress people. Once you’re in FAANG it’s all performance based. However, at some point of time you could get bored of your career and have life regrets. I dropped out of grad school, regretted it and went back part-time. I didn’t do it for higher TC, it was just a personal goal and something I needed to do to feel complete and accomplished. Everyone is different though. If you go back, do it sooner rather than later, once you have a family school is more or less out of the question.

My last, and favorite, L8 manager at Amazon is a college drop out. Has done pretty well.

Having been a CIO at a $2Bn/yr multinational myself before deciding I liked being a high level IC more, I can attest that dropping out of college and getting real experience without a pile of debt has not hindered me at all either.

As others have mentioned not having a degree could be a serious impediment if you want to work overseas at some point. Maybe not in all countries but definitely some (my experience is from APAC countries which generally do require an undergraduate to give you a work visa). If you don’t have other commitments yet (mortgage, kids etc) I would try and keep working on it part time just to make sure you don’t close any doors unnecessarily.

Now that you have Amazon on your resume it will not hurt you. In general it would have hurt you because few companies would be ok with not having a degree. Although if you want to specialize then you can't do a MS/PhD without a a bachelor's

I dropped out of college due to my financial situation, yet have had a long career making a lot of money with titles like CTO and Chief Architect- and managing teams of PHD’s!But every time I have to look for a job, it is awkward. I’ve told my kids not to follow that path if they can avoid it, but you can make it work. I was one of those kids doing advanced stuff at an early age, and am self taught in CompSci. I took enough college to complete all the higher math stuff, which I think was important. But if it’s an option, finish the degree. You won’t regret it.

If you decide later that cs alone bores you and you want to change direction by going into an unrelated advanced masters program, you may have to go back and finish the degree to start your advanced studies where others could just start immediately. I'm 45 and have been L7+ everywhere and am bored out of my mind reiterating the same patterns at continuously greater scale, so I'm finishing mine now so I can shift my experience to a different domain through a master's program.

The more with experience you get and the more you perform the less the degree is relevant. I've worked with people without degrees and they have always been very good technically (and successful). The only thing that was different was that they had an attitude "my way or the high way" (people with many degrees have that too). My explanation of that behavior was either they never developed social skills due to rarely working in groups (something you typically do in school) or they have become overconfident due to having achieved everything on their own terms. I don't know how much it would matter at the exec level promotions (if that's what you refer to as ceiling).

Do it while you are still young and don't have family (assumption). Later on in life even if you want to it'll be tougher.Since you know basic CS now better to do a degree in some other discipline...eg. in Linguistics, Law, something related to medical science like Nutrition, biology etc. This'll work to your advantage. There are many coders out there but very few who know law + CS OR linguistics + CS.After some years if you want to do a startup then you'll have unique ideas b'se of knowledge of these other field(s).