Super Program and Winder ME II - not working, is it the camera or the winder (or me)?

I'm having a problem with a Pentax Super Program and the Winder ME II. I bought both (separately) this week. Can anyone offer some advice? The camera winds and shutter trips normally without the winder. If I wind the camera without the winder, cam A turns about 50 degrees clockwise (as pictured), then returns. If I move lever 1 to the left, the shutter trips (which I imagine is proper behavior). When installed on the camera, the winder "whirs" and the red LED comes on when I press the winder button, but the camera shutter never trips and the film doesn't wind. Removed from the camera, the winder rotates cam B counter-clockwise (as seen in the picture) continuously as long as I'm pressing on the shutter release. This would be the correct direction to move cam A on the camera in the right direction (clockwise) when installed. However, lever 2 on the winder never moves. I think the first thing that should happen on the winder is that it should move lever 2 to the left when I first press the shutter release. This would engage lever 1 on the camera bottom which would trip the shutter. Is this correct? Is there something I can test to help me troubleshoot what is the problem (the winder or the camera)? I've read the instructions on both units and tried to carefully follow them. Both units are within their return period, but I don't know which is at fault (or, of course, I could be at fault!) Thanks!

Never mind! The problem was not the camera nor the winder - it was me! It is working fine now. I searched the Pentax Forum a second time for any issues related to the winder. I found a thread called "The goofiest winder ever? ME Winder II" from 2014, and in that thread "Stevebrot" noted that the body grip on the front of the Super Program must be removed before attaching the Winder ME II. Otherwise there is a very slight misalignment that can prevent it from working. I must have missed that comment the first time I checked the forum. All it took to fix my problem was a penny - I used that to remove the body grip, then re-attached the winder and Voila! Problem solved. Now when the trigger is pushed on the winder the camera shutter is first tripped, and then the film is wound. Funny, the need to remove the body grip is not mentioned in either of the two manuals. The misalignment must have been very slight, as I did check several times to see if the winder seemed to be snug up against the baseplate, and I judged it was.

Before reading you're second post, to help, i checked my (working) Super-A and ME-II combination to see if they have the same behavior (uncoupled), the only difference is that cam A moves about 135 degrees clockwise for my unit.
About the grip, it is mentioned on the bottom of page 9 of the Super-A/Super Program manual.
Great fun to use, functionning like this after all those years, Pentax did well
Good shooting

But now you have a much bigger problem.
Where do you put the grip so you won't lose it?

-Eric

Originally posted by monochrome

Right next to the lens cap and flash shoe cover.

I'll probably keep the grip with the camera in a plastic bin, like my other gear. I don't have so much stuff that I'll loose track (only 8 pentax cameras).

I have the lens cap - but did a flash shoe cover come with the Super Program? I don't have that!

---------- Post added 11-28-2017 at 11:01 PM ----------

Originally posted by RichardB

Before reading you're second post, to help, i checked my (working) Super-A and ME-II combination to see if they have the same behavior (uncoupled), the only difference is that cam A moves about 135 degrees clockwise for my unit.
About the grip, it is mentioned on the bottom of page 9 of the Super-A/Super Program manual.
Great fun to use, functionning like this after all those years, Pentax did well
Good shooting

Thanks! The test roll came out fine. Now I just have to put it in a box and turn it over to my wife, so she can wrap it and give it to me for Christmas. I'm still shopping for a flash unit, probably an AF200T.

Thanks! The test roll came out fine. Now I just have to put it in a box and turn it over to my wife, so she can wrap it and give it to me for Christmas. I'm still shopping for a flash unit, probably an AF200T.

KEH had a couple that I noticed while ordering some stuff this weekend.
I have one for my Super and it works great but the audible tone does not function, no big deal, I know when it is charged by looking at the light.

KEH had a couple that I noticed while ordering some stuff this weekend.
I have one for my Super and it works great but the audible tone does not function, no big deal, I know when it is charged by looking at the light.

Clarence

Thanks for the comment. I ordered a AF200T, it's on the way to add to my Christmas "kit". Glad to hear that you like using one with your Super, looking forward to trying it out. Would it be good to also get an AF160SA (to have something smaller and lighter) or an AF280T (for more power and bounce ability)? I do already have an AF360FGZ with works fine with the Super in TTL mode, and of course has power and tilt head. But it is quite large on the camera. The AF360FGZ is amazingly versatile.

Thanks for the comment. I ordered a AF200T, it's on the way to add to my Christmas "kit". Glad to hear that you like using one with your Super, looking forward to trying it out. Would it be good to also get an AF160SA (to have something smaller and lighter) or an AF280T (for more power and bounce ability)? I do already have an AF360FGZ with works fine with the Super in TTL mode, and of course has power and tilt head. But it is quite large on the camera. The AF360FGZ is amazingly versatile.

I'm late for this comment since you ordered a AF200T but AF280T is also a very good flash (heavier) with its swivel head, note also that these two flashes uses the same adaptors (wide adaptor AFW1 and tele adaptor AFT1).

Thanks for the comment. I ordered a AF200T, it's on the way to add to my Christmas "kit". Glad to hear that you like using one with your Super, looking forward to trying it out. Would it be good to also get an AF160SA (to have something smaller and lighter) or an AF280T (for more power and bounce ability)? I do already have an AF360FGZ with works fine with the Super in TTL mode, and of course has power and tilt head. But it is quite large on the camera. The AF360FGZ is amazingly versatile.

I thought about getting the AF280T but what little I use a flash, the AF200T is good enough for my needs, also it came with the camera.
I do like the idea of the swivel head to bounce the flash.
Have an old Tristar 300AZ that can be used if needed, it is not a TTL though but does rotate upward to bounce.
Maybe next year, have spent way too much lately on cameras and equipment

Maybe next year, have spent way too much lately on cameras and equipment

Me too. Of course, next year is only 30 days away now!

---------- Post added 12-01-2017 at 09:21 PM ----------

Originally posted by RichardB

I'm late for this comment since you ordered a AF200T but AF280T is also a very good flash (heavier) with its swivel head, note also that these two flashes uses the same adaptors (wide adaptor AFW1 and tele adaptor AFT1).

Yes, I think some day I'll get the 280T - I have a Minolta Auto 320X flash which is similar to the 280 in size and capability, though of course it doesn't talk to Pentax cameras. I'd also like to get an even smaller flash than the 200T, like the AF160 or AF160SA.

Here's a picture of my Super Program with the stuff I got with it - the Pentax-A 50mm F2.0, an ever ready case in pretty good shape (a few minor cracks in the leather), original Pentax strap, and a little Sunpak Auto 140 flash (GN14, thyristor automatic, 2xAA). Everything worked well on the test roll, and the Winder ME II is working well too (not shown).

Have had my Super Program for a few months now and really enjoy it.
It was CLA'ed when purchased and came with the AF200T.
Purchased some add on's since.

Pics:
AF280T (just got it tonight from Roberts), it is a bit larger than the AF200T and it works
Motor drive "A" (neatest thing since sliced bread).
Digital data "M" (will see if it worked when I use up this roll and send it in for processing).
O-ME53 magnifier eye cup (really helps with the split prism to nail the focus especially with these older eyes).

Have only used it in auto mode with the lenses in Auto mode and it works perfectly with the Sigma 28~70, Pentax A 35~105.
Current test lens is the Pentax A 70~210 and that roll should be used up by this weekend, maybe.

The K1000 feels neglected now but I may just may throw a roll of film in it to keep it happy