1 Black Orc Bigboss Battlestandard(someone's best basha) A weapon +1 WS, S and I Gnashes +1 A (gives him the same standard line as a Lord except for wounds) A collar that makes mounts and monsters hit on a 6+ Heavy Armour Boar

Here is how he describes it:"Being my first O&G list, I'm really not sure if this will be useful. There is an easy substitution of a Giant for the doom diver, two spear chukkas and a unit of night goblins. Animosity wise, I'm a little concerned about the nght goblins but otherwise, it seems pretty okay."

We played a game on Saturday (I won) and he decided that he is going to change up the night goblin units a bit (spears instead of bows or else split them into units of 10 bows) He might also get rid of the boar riders in order to get himself a giant. I couldn't give him a whole lot of advice since I've never even seen the army book. I know there are a bunch of Greenskin armies out there so have at it!

Minor Quibble- The battle axe of the last waaaaaagh! ON the lord I believe is for models on foot only. Also, don't even think about buying it. For 100 points you can get shagga's screamin' sword (50) and 'ed kickin' boots (+1 attack) for less, and then you don't have to worry about having your unit flanked, losing your ranks and throwing 5% of your army total down the drain.

Major Quibble(s)-

Lose the boars. They're awful. Expensive, unpredictable, and easy as all hell to kill with magic, shooting, charging them etc. They suck a ton. Putting your BSB in the mix doesn't help, as he's quite likely to get killed with only the 2 wounds by a beefed up counter charge. I wish they were better as the 15 Boars I painted up would look nice in my army but they eat balls. What I have found to be a seriously better unit is a unit of heavy cav wolf riders. 18" charge man! Anything you're fighting you're counting on your static score to beat the enemy anyway with wolf riders but they're the bomb at killing war machines, flank charges, and cheap enough to be used in a sacrificial or table quarter gatehring role. Spend the extra points on another character.

Night goblins don't use bows. While the spear using model are readily available I've found the hand weapon and shield option with the combination of nets makes them suprisingly survivable. But 3 units of 20 is bad. 2 units of 30 is the way to the promised land! Make sure they're not taking panic tests by making them better. ALso worth a thought a Night goblin big boss with a great axe is 34 points. 3 s6 attacks can be a great little bonus for the piddly units that usually get tasked to bring the night goblins down. No joke but the night goblins in my army always seem to suprise the enemy. Plus the big axe carrying night goblin is one of the best models to paint.

A giant isn't essential, but they are really good. ANything in your army that doesn't have to make a roll to charge all the demons and crap out there is worth a look.

I am slowly working on an O and G army and have played with my limited models a couple of times and against Scott once. I enjoy taking at least one magic user either goblin or orc both have some fun spells and other tricks. There is one spell Scott used against me making sixes into ones that really sucked for me, plus with a goblin you can really help out your unit of goblins. I agree taking bigger units is necessary to soak up some initial damage giving them a chance for a fight, also I love fanatics fun, sneaky and cool. I played with Gorbad (general and Bsb) on a boar once and with Skarsnik both were fun and effective. Also spider riders ignore terrain making them good flankers.

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll direct my brother to them. Scott, I think he took the boar riders because they are familiar to him. Unfortunately he found that they are a poor substitute for grail knights! After our game on Saturday my recommendations were to give his night goblins spears, shields, netters and 2 or 3 fanatics each and play more aggressivly with them (use fanatics offensivly instead of defensively). But your recommendation for hand weapons and shields is a solid one. I also recommended that he drop the boar riders or at least reduce the unit to 5 and give them a supporting role instead (maybe make them savage?). I'm not convinced that a giant is worth its points since I've never had one survive long enough to fight, but I can imagine that they are good if and when they do. If nothing else I guess it provides a distraction to the enemy's war machines while the rest of your army advances safely.

nathanr wrote:Thanks for the replies guys, I'll direct my brother to them. Scott, I think he took the boar riders because they are familiar to him. Unfortunately he found that they are a poor substitute for grail knights! After our game on Saturday my recommendations were to give his night goblins spears, shields, netters and 2 or 3 fanatics each and play more aggressivly with them (use fanatics offensivly instead of defensively). But your recommendation for hand weapons and shields is a solid one. I also recommended that he drop the boar riders or at least reduce the unit to 5 and give them a supporting role instead (maybe make them savage?). I'm not convinced that a giant is worth its points since I've never had one survive long enough to fight, but I can imagine that they are good if and when they do. If nothing else I guess it provides a distraction to the enemy's war machines while the rest of your army advances safely.

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The true power of an Orc army lies in it's size! When I make an army I TRY to have at least 2-3 knockout punches hoping to make it into the fray with 1-2 of them. It's often enough, but with pure infantry you can boost that up to 4 viable options for a unit that can win a fight unsupported, hoping that 3 will make it into combat.

A giant is so good. In and of itself it is a supporting unit with good speed and can take flanks. It is a great anchor unit with ld10 and stubborn. It is a good knock out unit as it can run headlong into most anything and have a solid chance of breaking them over 3-4 combat phases (it's gonna yell and bawl or jump up and down eventually). The other thing that is good about a giant is that it is in an O&G army! You can afford to lose the giant in a well conceived army as it's not the end all and be all of your combat strategy. A giant usually takes up a lot of firepower from long range shooting. Sure we've all see them go down from a 40 point unit of skinks or that one lucky ass cannon shot but would you rather your Giant die, or your general? The fact that Giants are so dangerous and they soak up so much shooting usually means that I don't cry if my giant dies. Losing them on turn one is a pain but he still serves his purpose. Confusing your opponent with a generous amount of worthy shooting and magic targets is one of the wonders of a well constructed O&G army.

Also the new plastic giant is pretty cool. I hated it when I saw the first glimpses of it but I've built a couple now and really enjoyed them.