Grange on Raptors: Raps embrace Lowry, forget Nash (SportsNet.ca)

It seems unfathomable, but it might be true.

The Toronto Raptors are better off without Steve Nash.

That's what happens when the consolation prize -- not that anyone around the franchise would call Kyle Lowry that -- is off to the best start a newcomer has had through three games in franchise history.

The Raptors love Lowry, the point guard of the present and the future they acquired from the Houston Rockets and the one they handed the keys to the franchise when they couldn't give them to Nash as Captain Canada.

They love everything about him, from his bowling ball with a sneer style to his absurdly team-friendly contract, which still has this year and next remaining at $12 million total.

If Lowry, 26, continues to perform anything close to the level he has through his first three games, where he's averaged 23.7 points, 7.3 rebounds, 7.0 assists and 3.7 steals while shooting 57.5 per cent from the field, he'll be the most underpaid player in the NBA.

It's gotten to the point where Raptors president Bryan Colangelo has had to fend off 'what's the catch' queries from fans who can't quite believe the guy who looks like he could be the best all-around point guard in franchise history (and we know, it's only been three games) was acquired for a protected future first-round pick and Gary Forbes of all people.

"I had a guy come up to me and say 'look, this guy's great, but what are we missing, how we'd get him'?" Colangelo said in advance of the Raptors' quick two-game road swing through Oklahoma City and Dallas which begins Tuesday night. "How do we get this guy for a first-round pick?"

The answer, in a nutshell, is the Raptors were the beneficiaries of a unique combination of circumstances. They began when Lowry, whose chief flaw may be a bullheadedness that can occasionally tip over into hot-headedness, got into a scrape with Houston Rockets head coach Kevin McHale.

"Once we got an answer from Steve we were very quickly able to turn our focus to Kyle," said Colangelo. "I knew there was still a deal there (after draft night) but I didn't think we'd pull it off in 24 hours; but it gave them the flexibility and the roster spot they wanted."

"Sometimes things don't happen for a reason," said Colangelo. "He's a tough guy and he wants nothing to do with 'nice game, good try. He wants to win. We're thrilled to have him."

Lowry is probably the most suitable pg for Caseys system: tough as nails, great defensively, a leader, competitor, always hustles, he's a dude perfect for the culture change in Toronto. Nash is a great offensive player, but really he's just Jose 2.0 and old.

There is no doubt the Raptors are better off with Lowry than Nash. The team was probably better off without Nash regardless of Lowry (although MLSE's wallet may not be) but thats a different topic.

But were the Raptors really looking for Lowry?

The answer is yes, but there is no doubt that Nash was the team's first priority. The Raptors could have traded for Lowry on draft night but it would have cost them the No.8 pick they used on Terrence Ross.

It also would have hampered them in their run for Nash.

didn't Colangelo say there was no draft day deal available?

There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.

There is no doubt the Raptors are better off with Lowry than Nash. The team was probably better off without Nash regardless of Lowry (although MLSE's wallet may not be) but thats a different topic.

didn't Colangelo say there was no draft day deal available?

There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.

Perhaps his comment was that there wasn't an offer he was willing to do. A firm #8 pick in a deep draft immediately is more valuable than a vague future pick.

There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.

...? Huh? From the Day-1 that Colangelo has talked about this deal, I've been of the understanding that he nixed a Draft-Day deal to acquire Lowry because it would have cost the #8 pick. Nothings changed.

"That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

...? Huh? From the Day-1 that Colangelo has talked about this deal, I've been of the understanding that he nixed a Draft-Day deal to acquire Lowry because it would have cost the #8 pick. Nothings changed.

Nothing has changed other than the fact that if the rumor for giving up #8 thi syear for Lowry could have been done it probably should have instead of the future 1st rounder.

If they knew Demar was going to be offered an extension why draft T.Ross? I would have preferred they gave up the pick this year than a future 1st rounder.

Nothing has changed other than the fact that if the rumor for giving up #8 thi syear for Lowry could have been done it probably should have instead of the future 1st rounder.

If they knew Demar was going to be offered an extension why draft T.Ross? I would have preferred they gave up the pick this year than a future 1st rounder.

"If they knew Demar was going to be offered an extension.."

Why do you assume they knew on draft night they were going to offer an extension, and that it would be accepted, when that didn't go down until after DD did the work on his body and game over the summer and they had a month of camp with him? Ya think that maybe the progress he showed made for the offer that worked for him, who also had a say in it?

And why not draft Ross because they had DD? A team doesn't need two quality SGs? Perhaps one coming of the bench for big minutes, a la Ginobli, Harden (with OKC), Allen with Miami, Crawford with LAC, etc......

There is no doubt the Raptors are better off with Lowry than Nash. The team was probably better off without Nash regardless of Lowry (although MLSE's wallet may not be) but thats a different topic.

didn't Colangelo say there was no draft day deal available?

There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.

You dont understand how it works obviously. If every GM just came out and said what he was thinking of doing to the fans then we would get terrible deals, draft picks, FA contracts. its like game of poker. you have to hide your cards to be successful.

they did mention after the trade though. they wanted lowry regardless of nash and they didnt want to give houston this year pick.

You dont understand how it works obviously. If every GM just came out and said what he was thinking of doing to the fans then we would get terrible deals, draft picks, FA contracts. its like game of poker. you have to hide your cards to be successful.

they did mention after the trade though. they wanted lowry regardless of nash and they didnt want to give houston this year pick.

Yep because I obviously said a GM should saying everything he's thinking. Wait a minute:

I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.

Lowry is the player the raps have NEVER had, including Vince, mighty mouse and Bosh. His "all i care about is winning" attitude that matches his talent is all ive ever wanted in a player and after 3 games he's my favorite all-time rap.

I think the other reason sleepz was arguing that trading away last year's #8 pick would have been better than the highly protected pick they did trade, was due to the uncertainty involved. Not only will the Raptors wind up losing a 1st round pick of somesort between 2013-2018, but the conditions attached to the pick also prevent BC from including future 1st round pick(s) in any potential trade.

Had the 2012 #8 pick been traded instead, BC would be able to trade the team's 2014 & 2016 1st round picks. Given what a combination of the team's most likely trade assets (ie: Davis, Calderon's expiring contract, Kleiza) and multiple draft picks (2 x 1st round picks & 4 x 2nd round picks) could possibly bring back in trade, it's a fair argument. I think the argument becomes even more significant with the extension handed out to DeRozan, now that Ross has been relegated to long-term backup.

For me, it's not only the unwillingness to trade the 2012 #8 pick for Lowry that irks me, given the DeRozan extension. There were rumors in the aftermath of the Howard trade that said the Raps might have been able to acquire Iguodala from Philly, had they been willing to include the 2012 #8 pick (along with Calderon and Davis). It would have been conceivable for the conditions on the pick included in the Lowry trade to begin in 2014 (instead of 2013), which would have theoretically allowed the Raps to acquire both Lowry AND Iguodala, essentially for Ross & Davis & Calderon & a conditional 1st round pick. How good would that lineup have looked?

I'm fully aware of the Protections placed on the Pick; and as you say yourself, it is in fact NOT guaranteed Lottery if we Win for the next few years. So the point of this post, in which you are trying to tell me it IS guaranteed, sort of escapes me ... but anyway ... a #8 Pick IS Guaranteed Lottery no matter how you look at it. The protected pick was NOT.

BC made the right move in dealing the Future Pick instead of the 2012 #8 pick.

"That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson