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For my part, I have learned to not view the matter as being 'mine' and 'his'; instead, I now understand that ten percent of my increase belongs to God. I am not motivated by OT Law or NT freedom (not to suggest that I disreguard either of them, but they aren't the measure of how I make my choice), but Jesus' teachings about stewardship.

Certainly, all that I am and all I have belong to him, and he has a right to call on and use me and mine as he chooses, but there is no question in my mind about who owns that ten percent, and it's nothing more than return to him what is his, and a mark of basic faithfulness on my part.

My obedience in this area doesn't translate into greater financial blessings for me either; I have come to conclude that Prosperity Doctrine is based upon inadequate understanding of scripture. But does this mean that God is unwilling to bless me, even if I am obedient? Oh no! But God's blessings can come in different ways, and not always financially. In my case, I enjoy the material life entirely too much, and it's clear to me that God's love for me is to train me to live frugally and be reliant on him for my needs at this time of my life. I have had to learn, and am still learning, to live within what I have, and I am a better perosn for it. God blesses me now, and he will continue to bless me, even though I am poor.

Back to the point: as I see it God has a right to the return of the ten percent that actually belongs to him. There is also the godly principle of giving from the other 90% according to the moving of the Spirit within me.

This only touches the tip, and I'll try to put some thoughts together that have more substance than just my opinions described here.

As a PS: we tend to think in terms of Money, but money hasn't always existed, and people used to get by on bartering. I encourage all the potato farmers reading this [thousands of you, I know] to, once a year, deposit 10% of your potato crop at the door of your church as your tithe of obedience. This is certain to make an impression on your pastor.

"Tithe was NOT part of the Ten Commandments! Tithe was part of the Mosaic Law. "

*chuckles* and the 10 weren't huh? You don't read your bible much do you? So now you say that there are different parts of the law huh? *rolls eyes* keep dancing frank, you're good at it. You can hold onto your wealth if you like, but as for me and my house, we serve the Lord, the God of abraham, jacob....the Great I Am.

"Just becaue it isn't to a church that is robbing people and putting some in debt becaue of the guilt trip about giving. "

*sigh* You really don't know what I'm talking about do you? Do you have any idea who the "church" really is? If your brother in chruch is starving and you give a "car for an elderly couple. " are you wrong? You bet you are. Please read the context of the posts I post, don't just jump in.

"Before you go passing judgement on someone Did you ever give 100% of everything you ever owned like the poor widow? "

100% nope, but I have given everything away could without welching on debts that I have.

"Do you stand up in the middle of your church while the plate is being passed around and say to everyone, "hey look at me folks I'm giving my tenth today ain't I wonderful?" You don't have me under conviction pal let me tell you! Maybe you are under conviction. "

*chuckles* no, I dont do that. I make sure no one is looking when I put my money in the plate. Its between me and God. I give more then 10% because that's biblical. You are to give to your church for people that work for the ministy deserved to be paid and everything else is something YOU approve through your church. I think you are fighting so hard because YOU DO feel conviction frank. You know you are not giving what you should, weather its 10% or 90% and God seems to be convicting you of it. You're the one advocating keeping money from God. If you read my prior posts and yours you can clearly see that but then again I guess you didn't read mine very clearly at all huh?

&nbsp; Originally posted by LouisBooth You really don't know what I'm talking about do you? Do you have any idea who the "church" really is? If your brother in chruch is starving and you give a "car for an elderly couple. " are you wrong? You bet you are. Please read the context of the posts I post, don't just jump in.

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Ahh Louis, once again you are just so absolutely amazing pilgrim!&nbsp; Have you ever considered becoming a standUp comedian?&nbsp; You are a bundle of laughs!!!!&nbsp; First of all I never said I gave a car to an elderly couple now did I?&nbsp;&nbsp;And if I did, what's it to you? You sound like you have a real problem! &nbsp;I said I gave it to the missions!&nbsp; They need transportation to get around.&nbsp; As for someone who is starving, how do you know so much about me that isn't true! How do you know I've never helped out some folks who were without food?&nbsp; How do you know so much about my personal life and you don't even know me?&nbsp;

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*chuckles* no, I dont do that. I make sure no one is looking when I put my money in the plate. Its between me and God. I give more then 10% because that's biblical. [/B]

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OK, chuckles, now come on booth are you sure nobody is looking when the plate is passed around?&nbsp; Are you absolutely sure? Your kidding me now right?&nbsp; I bet you tell the usher to close his eyes then when he approaches you with the plate ya think?&nbsp; Is that what you do?&nbsp; And the people sitting around you, do you have to tell them to close their eyes or look the other way so you won't be noticed?&nbsp; I think I see your approach now on giving.... opps I mean tithing. At least you make sure you have your percentages calculated correctly!&nbsp; No booth chuckles you have been reading me all wrong, my point has always been giving as led by the spirit and not by following the letter of the old abolished carnel laws that you are still living by!&nbsp; Have a nice day and keep up the&nbsp;good work with your comedy routine!&nbsp;

"First of all I never said I gave a car to an elderly couple now did I? "

This shows me how much you actually read frank. This section of my post was not addressed to you, for it was not you that I quoted. Big surpise.

"Are you absolutely sure? Your kidding me now right"

I am one of the last to leave from my church and yes I do make sure thanks.

"not by following the letter of the old abolished carnel laws that you are still living by"

So we are to throw away the law huh? You directly contract was Paul says in romans. "so then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good." the law is not something to be tossed aside. It is not to be strictly followed either (legalism) it is a guide for us to live. Thus the 10% is a good start. We start from there and work up because that's what God wants from us. Read your bible sometime frank instead of ripping the OT out first okay?

Originally posted by LouisBooth So we are to throw away the law huh? You directly contract was Paul says in romans. "so then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good." the law is not something to be tossed aside. It is not to be strictly followed either (legalism) it is a guide for us to live. Thus the 10% is a good start. We start from there and work up because that's what God wants from us. Read your bible sometime frank instead of ripping the OT out first okay?

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Hi&nbsp;booth,&nbsp; I copied this link to another thread that I posted on the difference between the ten commandments and the law of Moses.&nbsp; Tithing is not part of the ten commandments, it is part of the old sacrificial carnel laws that I've been trying to get across&nbsp;to you now over and over but it&nbsp;just doesn't seem to be sinking in&nbsp;for some reason.&nbsp;It's post #99 on the following&nbsp;link:&nbsp;

Originally posted by LouisBooth Just wondering...did you ask a practicing jew this, or just make it up? I didn't see a source cite..?

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Exodus 31:18, "And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God." These were the "Ten Commandments" Not the laws Moses wrote. I didn't make this up! &nbsp;

Booth, your confusing the Ten Commandments with the Mosiac Law....

Deuteronomy 31:9,"And Moses wrote this law," and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.&nbsp; I didn't make this up either! &nbsp;&nbsp;

*sigh* I think you haven't been reading closely enough Frank. check out chapter 20. Right after the 20 are named to moses God goes on to give more laws frank. Did you miss that part or are you not reading close enough? I think you missed that. Its okay, just read closer

Originally posted by LouisBooth "Booth, your confusing the Ten Commandments with the Mosiac Law.... *sigh* I think you haven't been reading closely enough Frank. check out chapter 20. Right after the 20 are named to moses God goes on to give more laws frank. Did you miss that part or are you not reading close enough? I think you missed that. Its okay, just read closer

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Booth, Let's see if I can make this real simple for you by asking you some basic questions.... Does God still expect us to sacrifice lamps, heifers, and other animals today, to atone for our sins? No, these sacrificial laws were changed and later abolished. Does God still expect us to not steal, murder, lie, and commit adultery? Yes! Therefore, this simple fact that God does not expect us to obey the sacrificial laws of the Old Covenant, but does expect us to keep the laws of the Ten Commandments, prove that they are not part of the same law!&nbsp;
Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed Christ Jesus. This law was added "till the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16,19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ, and this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever and ever." (Psalm 111:8). To get a better picture of this, read the book of Hebrews.

"Therefore, this simple fact that God does not expect us to obey the sacrificial laws of the Old Covenant, but does expect us to keep the laws of the Ten Commandments, prove that they are not part of the same law!
"

LOL. you're making a seperation that is not there frank. I just showed you so. This law is now a guide for us because we are no longer accused of sin by it. Thus the 10% rule is still the way to go

Jesus did not preach to tithe but he told the rich to forsake all. But this he didn't say to all. It is only for those who is willing to listen and to practise. That is why he always says "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.".

The filthy rich who don't want ot donate all will preach tithing. The best advice is:

2 Corinthians 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.