Remember the significance of what I have said and what this smart guy here is trying to get a cross. We are all blind men trying to describe fire.
We essentially know nothing. Design is the only answer that is logical. 100 years of research is a bit presumptuous to discount a Creator. Wait a
few million at least. Basic reason says design. The one thing science leaves out is the question of why? God even lays it out in this area. The
only thing we can do is catch up to where God started with us when He revealed his word. Nothing about the Bible is wrong on the physics of the
universe, why it is here and why we are here. Just because we can't understand is no excuse to discount or act like a spoiled child about it.

Just watch Dawkins at work here. He is describing the anthropic principle and fine-tuning, which is a topic we haven't even covered, and the best
argument is to create a theory based on the multiverse theory. Theory, theory, theory. It all falls on theory. I have suggested just looking at the
way nature works and you see the simplest answer that fits all problems. We are designed. We work against the natural flow of the universe. Our own
capabilities mirror God's work. We are in His image.

THE ONLY thing in our marvelous universe that can create order out of chaos (negentropy, or syntropy) is life and consciousness.

No. You have been shown several times, using different examples, that this is not true. You are wrong.

Do just a little physics research

Physics was my university degree subject. How much physics do you know?

Notice that the universe was once at a state of high order and low entropy. Entropy increases (disorder) in the universe. WHY????

Because the amount of energy available for doing work in the universe is constantly being used up. Because there are a lot more potential state
configurations of disorder than there are possible ordered states, so disorder is more probable than order.

I've got to hand it to myself, this is the best proof yet!!

Yes, you'd better hand it to yourself because no-one else is going to hand it to you.

Without bringing creationism into this, almost every single culture has a flood myth and I absolutely do believe there has been at least one global
flood. It would take something catastrophic to carve out the Grand Canyon. All of the waters would have been flowing one direction and obviously it
must be hard to prove with the division among geologists and scientists. There is still new evidence being discovered concerning a global flood.

There is about 8 million accounts of alien abductions, doesn't make them any more true

I think people underestimate how rapid can the spread be of cultural influence, even before the communication age. Humans have wild imaginations.

How about a university paper as opposed to a "Church of God" website? Where is the creationism evidence that is based on years and years of hard
work, gathering data, assessing probability, and thereby submitted for years and years of a painstaking peer review process before finally being
published on page 123-124 in an October issue of "Digger Wasps and Katydids"

The point being Einstein believed in a Creator! He saw Purpose is a Result From The Perfect Order of Creation!

Yes, He claimed not to know God personally, But he was Honest enough to say their Was A Creation From A Creator/God)

"I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know
His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was
a real statement about a God in whom he believed.

Jesus effin Christ...

His mention of god there was not an acknowledgment of a universe created by a god.

It's like if you asked me what the lottery number will be this week and I reply "god knows". I'm not flipping acknowledging that there is a god
and that only he knows the winning numbers to pick and that we must pray for his good will to shine upon us so that we may win!

You theists aren't bright at all, really surprises me how you managed to last this long.

There is about 8 million accounts of alien abductions, doesn't make them any more true

I think people underestimate how rapid can the spread be of cultural influence, even before the communication age. Humans have wild imaginations.

How about a university paper as opposed to a "Church of God" website? Where is the creationism evidence that is based on years and years of hard
work, gathering data, assessing probability, and thereby submitted for years and years of a painstaking peer review process before finally being
published on page 123-124 in an October issue of "Digger Wasps and Katydids"

I am not exactly a creationist. There is no way I believe the earth is only 6 thousands years old when we have fossils millions of years old. I
believe there is an intelligent consciousness, but does that mean a god formed man from clay? I don't think so. I believe life is an an evolutionary
process with maybe interference. Everything should be backed up by science, but some things cannot yet be backed up by science. Have I known
there is a higher consciousness we can attain? Yes, absolutely. Man does NOT know fully what he is yet. I believe science and spirituality will merge
one day.

Yes, I do believe myth has some truth to it. Dinosaurs have been found with feathers.

edit on 31-3-2011 by Onboard2 because: Changed
creationism to spirituality

I am not exactly a creationist. There is no way I believe the earth is only 6 thousands years old when we have fossils millions of years
old.

So technically, your not a fundamentalist, but still a creationist as you still subscribe to a created universe by external intelligent means.

I believe there is an intelligent consciousness, but does that mean a god formed man from clay? I don't think so. I believe life is an an
evolutionary process with maybe interference.

Let's play with this for a moment, let's assume human evolution was interfered with... Does this necessarily have to mean is was supernaturally
interfered with based upon your beliefs created by humans lacking modern knowledge thousands of years ago, or could it mean that some extraterrestrial
race that arose naturally conducted experiments on early Earth that eventually led to humanity thus negating any possible supernatural entity having
any role whatsoever?

Everything should be backed up by science, but some things cannot yet be backed up by science.

Yes, this is one of the limitations of science, of any human really. We can only answer question in which we have discovered the answers to. If I ask
you to build me an antimatter fueled interstellar spacecraft, you couldn't personally do it, but never would I assume that it can never be done based
on your own limitations. Just as we should never assume that there should be supernatural explanations to our universe just because science does not
currently have all the answers.

Have I known there is a higher consciousness we can attain? Yes, absolutely. Man does NOT know fully what he is yet.

A higher consciousness? I'm confused... How could we be more self aware? Not know what we are? That statement just makes no sense. We're a primate
species that naturally evolved on this little rock that are capable of advanced tool use and language faculties compared to other primates on our
planet.

I believe science and spirituality will merge one day.

Perhaps someday if spirits are ever scientifically proven. I'm going to guess that this is improbable considering the "theory" of spirit has a
thousands of years now running history and has never once yet been proven true and for all intents and purposes appears to be just as it is, an
explanation for what happens when we die first conceived by primitive peoples who lacked current modern day knowledge and instruments to properly
answer questions of that regard.

Yes, I do believe myth has some truth to it. Dinosaurs have been found with feathers.

I don't get it... For many years now it's been hypothesized and predicted that we would find dinosaurs with feathers. I don't recall a time where
it was considered a myth.

sirnex, some scientists don't believe there has been enough time for man to evolve from an ape. Science certainly can't explain the origin of our dna.
I don't think anything supernatural interfered with man's evolution. I don't believe they were gods, in other words. Why should you assume that this
age is more advanced than past ages? This earth is 4.5 billion years old.

You can call me a creationist if you choose, but there is a difference between faith and knowing. Knowing what you are and knowing what you are
capable of has nothing to do with organized religion. My concept of god or source is different than most. I believe we are all a part of an
intelligent consciousness and we are not separate from it.

Believe me, you can be much more aware than you are or you wouldn't assume you are already.

sirnex, some scientists don't believe there has been enough time for man to evolve from an ape.

Scientists or theoligists?

Science certainly can't explain the origin of our dna.

Really? Like I said we're a species of primate...

I don't think anything supernatural interfered with man's evolution. I don't believe they were gods, in other words.

Soo.... we can't arise naturally but an alien species can in which to create us?

Why should you assume that this age is more advanced than past ages? This earth is 4.5 billion years old.

I don't assume that at all. I also don't assume that anything created humans.

You can call me a creationist if you choose, but there is a difference between faith and knowing.

Indeed there is. Knowing something means you have tangible evidence that would lead one to believe a certain conclusion is undeniably true. Having
faith means thinking something, damn the evidence period.

Knowing what you are and knowing what you are capable of has nothing to do with organized religion. My concept of god or source is different
than most. I believe we are all a part of an intelligent consciousness and we are not separate from it.

In other words, you have faith in what you believe, damn the evidence to the contrary.

Believe me, you can be much more aware than you are or you wouldn't assume you are already.

Do you mean something like how some people can tolerate pain more than others?

No, sirnex, but thank you for the discussion. I have done things that humans don't know they are capable of doing. Back to the subject. I don't
think a creator molded man from clay. I believe life began in water. Scientists are not even sure of this hypothesis. Along the evolutionary path, I
believe there was interference. Okay, nuff said, until you can bend spoons.

I believe life began in water. Scientists are not even sure of this hypothesis.

Of course they're not sure. There's a few scientific theories on how life first arose. Pinpointing exactly how organic molecules come together to
form self replicating molecules that eventually evolve into complex multicellular life is pretty difficult stuff.

Along the evolutionary path, I believe there was interference.

Interference by what?

Okay, nuff said, until you can bend spoons.

I fail to see the humor in that statement as one can not bend spoons unless once exerts a measurable force upon the spoons. In other words, one must
use their hands, not pretend they can use their mind, nor should one imply that they can out of simple morality. Would you like me to openly lie to
you and tell you I can teleport?

I never lie. I wish I could explain it to you in scientific terms. Everything vibrates at a certain frequency and I also think thought has energy or
frequency. One day I was talking to my sister(feeling very up!) At the same time, when I answered her, I was thinking of my mother. At that exact
moment, my voice came in over my mother's stereo. I was asking a question "What are you doing now?" Freaky, huh? There have been moments in my
life where unusual things happened, but I am definitley not a liar. I think it's all about raising the frequency and disbelief is why i don't like
to discuss it. I'm just an ordinary person, but I know that others can do the unordinary also and consistently. James Twyman, for instance, the peace
troubador.

Originally posted by Onboard2
I never lie. I wish I could explain it to you in scientific terms. Everything vibrates at a certain frequency and I also think thought has energy or
frequency. One day I was talking to my sister(feeling very up!) At the same time, when I answered her, I was thinking of my mother. At that exact
moment, my voice came in over my mother's stereo. I was asking a question "What are you doing now?" Freaky, huh? There have been moments in my life
where unusual things happened, but I am definitley not a liar. I think it's all about raising the frequency and disbelief is why i don't like to
discuss it. I'm just an ordinary person, but I know that others can do the unordinary also and consistently. James Twyman, for instance, the peace
troubador.

It's scientifically called an auditory hallucination. I've had them myself when I was younger.

It's not something out of the ordinary, nor is it something special you think you can do. Most everyone experiences auditory hallucinations. Lack of
understanding them doesn't mean you're special, just uneducated on the physical process that manifests these auditory hallucinations.

edit on
1-4-2011 by sirnex because: (no reason given)

Believe it or not, most people have some form of hallucination regularly. I usually experience phantom vibrations in my pocket as a result of getting
used to feeling my phone vibrate on incoming texts and calls. Happens everyday and occasionally it'll happen just before I actually receive a text or
call, but never do I pretend that this hallucinatory response is a premonition that I will receive a text or call, even if it's from someone I was
thinking about.

My mother wasn't hallucinating. I'm also clairaudient. Go ahead, continue to believe you're a weakling and have no power lol. Hearing that my
nephew fell into a lake three hours away was not hallucinating and there have been other instances. We are all connected on a soul level. Anyone can
do it. There is no separation from the whole; that's the illusion. You unbeliever you!

I know it sounds way it, but it's not! You are more than
you know. You have to raise your frequency through the heart. I am not much of a student. I don't study James Twyman's methods, but I can assure
you, he's telling the truth.

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