ok i got home tonight

and I tore down the motor and cleaned and re assembled, put the exhaust back on and brought the heli outside, needle at 2 out and, primed and after 5 tries it started, flew around for 5 minutes and I figured I would lean it a little and I landed and the second I let the throttle down, the motor died, so I turn a quarter turn out and I tried to start the heli for 20 minutes, and back on a shelf...I think the motor is junk, I don’t have any problems with my raptor, so I’m not happy at all with this quick heli, bought it used and put allot of money in it and it flies for 5 minutes and dies,,,i guess I can’t blame the heli if the toki is junk, .......so I went inside and tried to find a 18 motor, well as you know its total impossible....I can’t find 1 at all, I email someone to see if they still have any, and I know quick has a 27 upgrade, but I think I’m done pouring money into this heli, could have got my raptor 60 for what I got into this thing, I’m thinking of stripping her and selling her....sorry just venting, I just like to fly, and I don’t have a boat load of money, so I got to say WHEN!!!!,

I’m thinking I got bad compression, cas when I hold my rappy's 30 exhaust, I feel allot of pressure, I don’t feel that on the .18

I hope you are joking....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

answer to quick worldwide

Hi Quick Worldwide yeah when i came home from PA. i probably flew twice, and then the 3rd time i had a very hard time starting and never touch a thing on the carb or motor, so first new glow plug ....then last week i had it i tore the motor out and grabbed some aceatone and cleaned her right up, ...of course had to make new gasket for muffler and back cover,(out of red rtv)then reinstalled it in the bird and 2 3/4 turns on main jet turned low jet till cover hole half way, and idle screw all out,(let the radio control idle)now bring it out side, prime and start, 3rd try started right up,,but had to keep idle high to keep running, (clutch slightly grabbing), so i said lets fly, now it was dark and very windy, and she was holding, but im still green and i said i will land (before the wind pushes it into my house) and maybe lean out the motor....the second i throttle down...motor stops, so carry it to the table, turn the screw 1/8 turn in ,and let cool, and try to start, 10 minutes and a starter battery dead, not even a poof....so i dont know, i think the motor has bad or no compression...i dont know, but i would like to find a sleve and piston just to try, or is there a way to test compression on a nitro....but i cant find the parts...i dont blame the heli...she is solid, its the power plant, i wish i could stuff a 32 os in the thing.. and right know i dont have the money to sink into the upgrade,

Let's try this first..RE-assemblie and install engine..
MAke sure the glow plug is functioning & there is no air leaks in the fuel line. If there is a remote adaptor make sure it is also not shorting...
Open the needles to what ever you decide...
With no head on the glow in full collective this way you can cycle the engine for 2-4 seconds so you the get the old fuel out & fresh fuel in the cyclinder head. Then put your 1.5V glow starter on & try to start the engine..

im sorry you lost me, im assuming hot start means let it cool down

Sorry Irwin you lost me..this is my second nitro, my raptor has 12 flights under my belt, and im still learning rich and lean and how to tune the motor, but im lost with the end of message, i quess i still need some learning of terms, i do think i do need to get lines, i dont kow how old they are,(maybe they are junk, i will have to go to my local Hobby shop, but they dont sell much nitro, and pick up all new lines, but as to the rrest of the message, i dont under stand,,but thanks for all the help, i know alot of you guys can do this stuff in your sleep, i hope to be there some day too..

With no head on the glow in full collective cyclic the engine for 2-4 seconds the get er hot & try trim in start up position...NO HOT STARTS

Did what irwin said.....I THINK???? pleas watch vid

A few things that come to mind....

1) You __may__ have a problem with the clutch.... If the clutch is going south, it may have a hard time disengaging at idle.... the result will be what you are experiencing.... there is too much drag at idle and the motor quits....

2) Have you checked the radio stick settings versus the carburator opening ?? In other words, then you are at 1/2 stick, is your carburator opened approximately 1/2 of it's travel ?? If not, that could explain why you are having to push your stick up a little to get the motor to start and run.... Something may have changed since you ran this motor "successfully" a while back. You need to check all of the "basics"......

3) In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with the compression on that motor based on the way it ran on your last video and considering the colder temperatures (snow on the picnic table, etc.....) A motor with very low compression would probably not start at all....

4) Did you change fuel from the beginning runs on this motor ?? That motor may need more nitro than what you are feeding it.... Try running some 30 % nitro and see what happens..... Also, change your glo plug to a hotter plug..... I've always had great results with the Enya 3 plug.....

5) I noticed that most of the time, you forget to push the button on your glo driver..... every time you try to start the motor without the glo driver "on", you are introducing fuel into the crankcase.... most likely, you are flooding the motor to a certain degree thus making it harder to start......

6) Can't think of anything more at the moment !

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

That still seems lean to me. How hot is the engine when it quits? Next time you get it running, back the main needle out until it is too rich. It will accelerate slowly and stumbly. Then lean from there. Remember to keep it on the rich side. Once you get the main set, then adj the air bleed for a reliable idle and good transition. If you can get it to idle low enough so you can hold the head, try the pinch test. Pinch the fuel line close to the carb and see how long it takes the engine to speed up. It should take about 4 or so secs (and this as all things in life is not a set number, it will vary with different engines, fuel, temp, etc.) If it speeds up right away, then it is lean and you should close (yes thats right close) the air bleed screw. And vice versa. Remeber you went down in nitro so now the engine will be more finicky to tune. And you could also have a problem with the clutch as Jaun said. When you are starting do you have to hold the head back a lot?

thanks guys on all the help

i cant do anything this weekend the blizzard started at 1:00 and i had to get a few thing done around the house, did not have time, and now i think we will have 12" of snow, caz its coming down hard as i write this...

1. yes when i was filming i was forgeting to turn on the glow driver, but off camera i was fine, and same result...i quess i cant chew gum and walk at the same time..

2. the only thing different in the fleet has been a case of outrage formula 30% The quickie had run well with redcat 15%, and this outrage fuel was on sale at helidirect,(really cheap) and moneys tight and i bought it, BUT even in my rappy, it runs, but the rappy would start on the first try, now its 2 or 3, and its smokes horrible, i fogged my whole neighborhood 1 day last week,(when we had no wind...i talked about the fuel before, and some said it should run better and i was crazy, but it smokes alot, i cant fly unless its windy, it say 30% nitro 27% oil, when the redcat was 15% and 12%, im saving cash right now to get a gallon of the redcat, but my local shop sells it for 40.00(with tax) and thats alot of coin for me right now, but i will get that and some new fuel line?? thats the next thing..just going to take some time, but i will never buy outrage again, caz when i tip the bird, after trying to start it, that fuel feels way to oilly, i think i got a bad batch...

thanks guys i wont give up, i just wish someone else had this little 18, tips on it..

does anyone think its the pull start draging on the shaft, and if so will the motor run without it on..

Many years ago, I had a Shuttle that had an OS 32 with the bottom pull start... as I recall, that assembly was part of the back plate. Not sure how your motor is set up but I would imagine that if you were to remove that pull start, you'll probably have to find a backplate for the motor.....

GMP provided you with some good tuning advice.... I would try his suggestions next time you get a chance (if it ever stops snowing! )

Also, you didn't answer his last question...... that is, do you have to hold a lot of back pressure on the head while trying to start the motor ?? You should not feel any force to the head while turning the motor over before it starts......If the answer is "yes", then you might have a clutch issue. If that is the case then you'll never be able to get a good reliable idle due to the drag imposed by the faulty clutch. You'll have to replace the clutch and go from there.....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

I had an OS61SF-H that had a bottom cone start. It had a special backplate with a shaft that had a disk on the end. There was a slot in this disk that engaged the extended crank pin of the crankshaft. In order to convert u needed a backplate and a crank, (or you could just cut the pin off). If the pull starter seems to work fine (pull over slowly and see if it does not seem to drag between compression), then I would say you are probably OK here.

Oh, and I thought you went from 30% to 15%. You went the other way around, so yes you will have to run that fuel a lot richer than what you did with the 15. It has a lot more oil. This oil takes volume away from the nitro and methanol, so you need to open the needle more to compensate, on top of the fact that you have to run 30% richer anyways.

i like the sound and smell of nitro in the morning, and i like to fly longer then 5 mins at a time, ill get it running if i have to call my buddy at a machine shop, and set it up for an OS 32

...like to fly longer then 5 mins at a time...

Most electrics can keep up with the nitros (probably not the gasoline ones) as far as flight duration. Ditto for power now. At $30.00 / gallon, and the dropping prices of LiPo batteries, you could avoid all the expense and hassles that you have had with the Toki engine. I think the airframe is basically the same as some of the current electric Quickheli's so as far as parts it may not be much more than a motor mount, a new electric motor, and some parts. You may not need much modifications since it is a Quickheli. You would need ESC, battery charger and batteries. You would be flying a comparable machine, with much more power than the Toki engine, and much easier to maintain and "adjust". Really speaking there is no tweaking involved at all with the electric motors. You could adjust a few things by programming the ESC, but it would start up right away, every time.

Can't help you with the "nitro smell"! If that's what you want ...

When you get tired of the "nitro smell", take a trip down to Coopersburg. I am sure it would not be a difficult conversion and Irwin probably has all the parts needed already. I would seriously recommend it.

I don't fly Nitro's, so ... not an expert, but ...

Looking at your video from 4:45 to 5:00 when you put the throttle up and try starting it again, I noticed that the pull start handle seems to move a lot as you are cranking the engine. Then right at 4:58, when the engine suddenly stops, the pull start handle seems to get "sucked in". Is the clutch on the pull start mechanism defective? Since you are not using the recoil starter, can you remove it from the engine and try it again?