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DVD is dead. Long live the DVD!

On 11th January, representatives of the European film industries met in London to discuss the threats posed by piracy and how the ...

“We absolutely believe that piracy is the single biggest danger facing the industry. If we don’t tackle it, we’ll be out of jobs in 10 years.”

John Woodward, CEO - UK Film Council

Remember when …

There was once a time when seeing the next blockbuster was something of an enjoyable ordeal. A mission that required as much stamina to accomplish as it did to control your enthusiasm during the months of publicity mega-phoning.

Arriving hours early at your local cinema, everyone queuing up the street, praying the tickets didn’t run out before you’d shuffled to the kiosk, crowding into a packed theatre – all to enjoy the latest film glamorous Hollywood had to offer. Loud and proud on the big screen, there was no film viewing experience to touch it. Nothing compared to being flown through the silver screen.

Then you’d go through whole trial again as soon as possible. If you wanted to see the film quick you had no choice. Back in those nostalgic days we were a captivated and captive audience, paying for the privilege.

The times, they have a-changed. Rapidly.

Last Wednesday in the UK, Dixons announced that it would no longer sell VHS units – it’s not worth their time anymore. DVD players have become now standard for private movie watching. Home-based hardware is getting better and cheaper all the time, so people across the global territories are paying for DVDs to bring a high quality, theatre-challenging experience into their homes, rather than just visit the cinema - and to get much more, with endless repeatability and worthwhile extras enhancing the film package.

With the exponential developments in computer and digital technology, the celluloid film has also moved from the untouchable realm of the big theatre screen to the ethereal digital world, infinitely accessible by the masses around the globe.

Crucially, as a result of these advancements people are now choosing to pay far less to see and own movies than the industry would have them – if at all. Film piracy has become a worldwide, consumer-led phenomenon that’s been leaving the industry in its dust.

On 11th January, with their DVD and film revenues hemorrhaging daily, representatives of the European film industries met in London to discuss the threats posed by this piracy and how the blood-loss could possibly be stemmed.

Bleeding wounds

Darcy Antonellis (senior Vice President of Warner Bros. Worldwide Anti-Piracy Operations) gave a few examples of the losses incurred by WB. Last year, [i]Shrek 2 DVD sales were much less than expected and Harry Potter 3 shifted less than half the number of units of its prequel. Twelve months ago, a random sampling of 1,000 people in France showed that 12% wouldn’t buy The Matrix Reloaded as they already had a pirate copy before the legitimate release date. This is “what kids now see as respectable behaviour,” added Antonellis. As the pirates beat the dates of most theatrical releases, the box office is taking a slashing too.

As piracy affects revenues, there is real fear that distributors will start suffering as colossal losses as the music industry did with CD sales. With Gregor Pryor, of Music Choice Ltd, warning, “online piracy has cost the music industry billions of dollars,” representatives heard that in 2003 piracy cost film businesses £3.7 billion.

As a result, the security weaknesses in DVD distribution are being put under the scalpel themselves.

Hard and Soft cuts

“Camcording still remains as the first copy that’s made and is subsequently used as a master to make hard copy,” said Antonellis, examining the piracy chain. “We protect the film pre-release until someone camcords in the theatre, then the piracy distribution starts.” Once a soft copy is made in one country, pirate copies flood around the planet faster than the next theatrical release. With this, people then don’t see the need to pay for the high priced cinema ticket – especially if the film wasn’t that good!

“The bulk [of camcording] is in the US,” she continued, “but the behaviour repeats in other territories when we release there too – as with Harry Potter 3.”

To combat this, we are seeing more distributors organising simultaneous global theatrical releases – ‘date and day’ releasing. However, once the soft copy is out there, the revenues of legitimate DVD distributors and retailers are already threatened.

“The situation’s horrendous,” said Alex Sparks, MD and Senior Vice President of Blockbusters. “With 700 stores around the country we’re certainly on the frontline experiencing it.” He continued: “People want the hot stuff that’s at the cinema. I think sales go down because they’re saying, ‘I’ve seen it already.’”

With the soft master copy uploaded on the net, within 24 hours hard copies are then sold on the street with pre-prepared packaging in any territory at dirt-cheap prices. Of course, ripping from a legitimate original disc (once obtained) as the master is another route which the pirates can take.

The significantly improving quality of pirate hard copies and packaging offers attractive alternatives to the real deal, months before it is available in stores. Research has shown that even if the quality of the pirate disc is substandard, some viewers will accept this because they paid so little (or nothing) in the first place.

The most prevalent traffic of pirated, copyright infringing soft copy is peer2peer file-sharing. Analysis commissioned from market research agency IPSOS has shown that this is becoming common across most demographics of people accessing the net, who know its illegal but hold “a soft moral obligation to this.” Quality and download times are determining most people’s choices more than anything else, as it is perceived as a victimless crime with no fear of prosecution. It appears to be most common amongst European teenagers, with 24% of young women and 35% of young men downloading movies illegally (compared to 16% of all net users).

The essential point here is that to watch the film the downloader is accessing digital content. There may be no need for the actual DVD disc anymore – unless he actually wants to burn his own copy. The issue shifts to managing the physically shapeless digital data. More of this later.

Stitching up its wounds

So, the industry is fighting back at hard and soft pirate copy. How?

A multi-disciplinary, long-term strategy has already begun, supported by relevant film producers and bodies (such as the Federation Against Copyright Theft, the Motion Picture Association, the Motion Picture Association of America, etc), encompassing a number of initiatives, such as:

Security will continue to tighten across the film production, post-production and distribution processes to prevent leakage.

Theatrical day ‘n’ date releases will continue, followed by accelerated DVD releases to close down the pirates’ window of opportunity. (Simultaneous theatrical and DVD releases were briefly speculated, but this was scoffed at due to costs, and, one imagines, because of the potential of lost theatrical revenue).

Governments will be lobbied to pass tougher piracy and copyright legislation nationally and local authorities pushed to take prosecuting action against localised pirating networks.

Localised law enforcement bodies will be called upon to press for convictions.

More raids (such as on eDonkey and BitTorrent) and lawsuits will be pursued, along with the faster suspension of auction sites, such as eBay, when pirated goods are being sold. There will be as much publicity as possible to make people aware of these when they happen.

Aggressive advertising to highlight the issue in people’s minds. Adverts are already showing with much more regularity in cinemas and on rental stores’ internal TV systems. Some companies are also releasing these ads with their films.

Education and public policies will be pursued, aimed squarely at changing the public’s understanding of the issues. They are looking to convince consumers that some pirate goods are linked to organised crime (and possibly fund offshore terrorism, etc), that there are victims (be it illegal immigrant street-sellers, or through effects on local economies as independent video stores fold, shop workers are laid off, etc), and to reinforce the illegality of piracy and content theft and that people can and will be prosecuted. Some companies have already instigated outreach programmes in schools and universities, institutions where filesharing networks are very well established for younger consumers.

Customs and Excise work will continue to be supported (1.69 million illegal discs were seized coming into the UK last year) across Europe – a 2328% rise in three years.

‘Cam-jamming’ technology is being developed – ways of actually disrupting the digital camcording that takes place in theatres whilst not impacting on the visual experience for the cinema-goer. This is seen as an integral part of the coming digital cinemas and may well involve direct modifications to the projectors.

In all, these are disparate approaches but they all move in the same direction, they all share a common sense of urgency.

Price Dice

“Criminal groups and increasingly entrepreneurial citizens are now making a lot of money,” surmised Raymond Leinster, Director General of FACT.

The industry admits it won’t be able to beat the pirates; they just want to be one of two steps behind them. With pirated discs, however, it faces a doomed inevitability over pricing.

The industry has to back the whole process of making the movie through to retailing the disc; the pirate just copies the end result. With obviously much lower overheads, the pirate discs can be sold on for a tiny fraction of the legit retail price tag.

“People just want to buy it cheaper, to get something for nothing. The industry cannot compete with piracy pricing. They have an 800% profit margin,” commented Dara MacGreevy, Regional Director of the Motion Picture Association. “

In comparison, Rob Jongmans, Exec. Vice President of Buena Vista Home Entertainment Europe, broke down the costs behind a legit DVD:

“33% goes to distribution costs - disc manufacture, packaging, shipping, advertising, marketing, etc; 27% is taken by the government; 19% goes on retailer costs [staff, mark-up, etc]; and 17% goes towards the film’s production costs. Leaving 4%. This is what the studio uses to invest in new productions.”

“The Hollywood cat isn’t really that fat,” he concluded.

Whether the average DVD buyer would believe such statements, though, is debatable and the lowest price will always win out.

“One of the biggest challenges is to remove the rose-coloured glasses of the consumer who has no sympathy for big Hollywood studios,” added Jongmans. So, it is clear what routes some advertising campaigns will embrace.

“The alternative to internet piracy is not in DVD. The future is in the internet.”

The above are really short and mid-term strategies to manage the flow of pirate discs and loss of money. But the industry cannot compete with the pirate disc manufacturers indefinitely and they will never better or even match their prices. The most efficient damage limitation exercise is aimed at ultimately doing away with the source of that damage – the DVD. The key lies in the long-term approaches to combating illegal filesharing.

‘To infinity, and beyond!’

A study by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development) in 2003 showed that peer2peer video sharing and its software was continuing to grow, despite prosecution and negative publicity campaigns.

Last year their research showed that illegal movie and TV downloads accounted for more than 34% of downloads over peer2peer networks such as KaZaA, Limewire and Bearshare.

This trend is likely to continue as more people access appropriate bandwidths. Arash Amel, Screen Digest’s senior analyst, said, “In 2004, total broadband households outstripped digital pay-TV households in Europe for the first time. By 2008, he concluded, “about 200 million households will be looking to have broadband.”

Very swift advances in broadband or increased bandwidth speeds are going to lead to seriously competitive subscription charges to access them. Much more efficient downloading technologies are coming too, of course. So, it's just going to get cheaper and easier for people to download more content and with more quality.

So rather than fight against the progressing technologies that are enabling illegal film-sharing, the industry is sucking in its communal gut to embrace the online media models. It is inevitable for its survival. They want to get in on the activities that illegal downloaders are enjoying and turn them legal, for a price.

Film companies are already getting the Internet Service Providers on board quite easily. The revenues that the ISPs were getting from subscriptions to customers (to access broadband etc) have levelled off. With that bandwidth market looking to get aggressively competitive, prices will fall even more and the ISPs are looking to get that revenue back (and to capitalise on their initial investments in setting it up). As a result, they're looking to sell quality content that customers will want. And we want movies and everything that goes with 'em!

In the future there will be intensive investment in and marketing of online services, to tempt consumers to pay for film content at competitive prices and to stick with a favoured brand or two. The aim is to improve on the services that pirates offer.

“Pirates are very good at providing decent copies of things, but are very hard pressed to provide a subscription service – it must exist over time,” said Rob Schuman of Cinea (a subsidiary of Dolby Labs).

Looking again to the music industry, Greg Pryor said, “Apple has shown that online content can make money for the industry. People will buy innovative and exciting content.”

Good news for the consumer then if the film industry moves to online distribution, as it will have to provide services that are so much better than piracy networks that people will be willing to pay for them again.

Indeed, Movielink offers online film within the US already, and people are waiting to see how successful it will prove.

People will still want to share the content they’ve bought and will always find a way. Again, the industry is looking to support this, rather than fight against and criminalise its customers again. Effective but flexible Digital Rights Management technology (DMR) is the key to making this workable. Once it can ensure digital content will be sold and distributed securely, there will be no turning back.

However, at present painfully slow speeds and disrupted downloading can frustrate getting movies from the net – and the industry knows people will be turned off paying for such a sketchy service. But not for too long…

‘It is inevitable, Mr Anderson.’

‘Internet 2’ is on the digital horizon. Already in use in some academic and research institutions around the world, it is still very specialised but is effortlessly shifting enormous amounts of data. Earlier this month two separate international teams announced new Internet2 Land Speed records by sending over 6 gigbits of information per second across half the planet.

The film industry, conscious that it needs to be ahead of the game next time round, is waking to the possibilities that the next net revolution will herald. The future of films at home is online. The present problems involved in easily and legally distributing films to consumers in their own homes will eventually be resolved.

As a precursor to this technology, the Advanced Access Content System has been developed, backed by a consortium of, amongst others, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, Sony, Warner Bros and Disney. The AACS aims to be a universal DMR system that will allow authorised copying and sharing or content, and will provide safe environments for businesses to supply content (i.e. films) direct to the next generation of DVD players and recorders.

Once they can figure out how to protect it and get us to pay for it online, it will be so much cheaper than making, marketing, distributing and retailing DVD to us, and make the (pirate or legit) hard copy market redundant. For years the industry has seen the DVD as a ‘golden goose’, or rather a ‘cash cow’ to be milked for every drop, but is already predicting slumps in the market:

“There was 12% growth last year,” said Marek Antoniak, MD of Columbia Tristar Home Entertainment. “There may be growth this year but less than 12%. Probably in 2006 the market will mature.”

From then on the only way for sales is down.

... here lies the DVD, R.I.P.

It is ironic that the internet so effectively enabled the piracy of films and now may play a significant role in its demise. Is piracy driving the DVD to a premature end? The industry may well force-feed us this notion as part of its campaigns, but I see this rather as the positive evolution of the technology. ‘On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.’

While the next generation of DVDs, such as HR and Blu-Ray will get here first, they will eventually be surpassed by the soft digital format. iPods and the like mean people no longer collect CDs; in a very foreseeable future, your movie collection will be similarly stored. Your amalgamated home entertainment systems and the delivery of media and films to it will be the key.

Screen Digest’s chief analyst Ben Keen argued, “The technology for unlocking doors is more important. Letting people move the content to other devices in the home that are authorised for this and to devices outside of the homes that can be used for sharing. This needs to be embraced with maximum flexibility, supported by the new technologies.”

Ultimately, the film industry is on the cusp of a paradigm shift. It is facing real challenges to its established business models, just as it did when television threatened in earnest after WW2. Online media and its exponential advances are forcing the change. Having seen the music industry get sufficiently burnt, you can rest assured that the Movie Men are not going to be sluggish.

But neither will the pirates.

‘What are we holding onto, Sam?’

Well, it’s still going to take a while to get there. The sky is clear at present so DVDs will continue to be released in their hundreds of thousands and provide the best format for watching films at home.

The HR and Blu-Ray discs will give superbly improved quality and storage capabilities but any new hardware will almost certainly play your old discs as well.

It’s likely that we’re going to get new films on disc more quickly and some more reasonable pricing may seep across the market as distributors look to keep paying customers loyal. As the cash cow dries up, the DVD market can only become even more consumer-led. Distributors know that wavering prices, lame packages and repeated releases are frustrating the paying customer (who doesn’t feel cheated when they have to double-dip?). So it’s possible that the quicker first time releases may also be more accomplished, comprehensive and attractively priced than ever before. And we can only benefit from this.

The industry knows that if they don’t deliver, all those customers will just 'look' elsewhere.

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Maybe the reason that film profits are low is because, as we have been told by other similiarly propaganda-filled sources, all of the violence, sex, profanity, and drug use has impacted us to the point where we are all drug using, murdering, sex-obsessed, swearing hippies with no time left for anything else? (I hope that anyone reading this understands that that last statement was bitter sarcasm)

I actually hope the industry does collapse and fall apart. That way, in my lifetime, people that actually have original ideas and actual talent might stand a chance at being able to succeed. As it stands now, there are too many greedy execs and too much infrastructure and loyalty to people with no talent for this to ever happen. Why would a top movie executive care about someone new with talent when they're sleeping with a woman that has this idea for a "cute" new movie?

why does everyone say blue ray is far away. there already selling blueray tv top recorders from japan if you import it. there supposed to be released fall in the usa. sure blueray wont be mainstream soon but i think in two years itll be were dvd was in 1998.

Quote: Originally posted by Monkey Boy I for one hope HD-DVD/Blue-Ray falters. I've spent way too much money to be given this lame zinger. I waited five years to switch to DVD. F'em!!!

So why should people who have HDTV have to wait for HDDVD because you spent too much money on DVD? HDDVD's are supposed to be backwards compatible. Best Buy reports record stock prices and sales due to HDTV's being sold, people ARE buying HDTV's in record numbers.

So we should wait so you can still show people your "cool DVD collection", you don't want to end up as the "cool HUGE VHS guy fromt he 80's?"

What a load of old rubbish, time after time we hear the same old story of how hard done to the movies industry is or music and game industry. The fact is they are making billions. If DVD's were sold online for download then there would be no packaging, no shipping, no retailers markup, no disc production costs and they could still make profit if they sold them for a fiver! Its profit and greed.

Well, I've just found out that Universal in the UK (who also distribute Dreamworks films) are asking a staggering £24.99 for Bridget Jones' Diary 2 (which is a single disc I think, and has no talking gimmick slipcover to even justify the high price).

Did they learn nothing form the "lower than expected sales" of Shrek 2.

Apparently not. Look for people to hold off buying this DVD until it appears in the inevitable Buy-One-Get-One-Free offer in a couple of months time.

So what? You pay $20 for a CD we pay $15, that just means you're getting more screwed than us. To say we should stop complaining is ridicules. If we don't and just take it, they'll keep on increasing the price tag till we squeel. You can't tell me they're not thinking some kind of way to unleash that kind of pricing in America.

If one was very very paranoid, one might even go as far as thinking HD-DVD/Blue-Ray is just that. While the companies initial investment is high. How long, projected, will it take to show a profit? And once that happens will they reduce the price to a decent level or just enough to give the appearance of a lower price? The price of manufacturing a CD vs. sales price as an example.

The fact they double and triple DVD dip here is a testament to their greed. Stopping the downloads won't help squat. It's a radical difference in philosophy. They're not there to entertain you. It's about making MONEY, nothing less. Films will not improve if it ended.

If it were about art, I doubt we would be in this situtation. Prices would be fair. People would still be downloading, but to a far lesser degree.

It's not like 'should we rerelease a movie'? It's 'how many times can we do it and get away with it?'

1. Most people who know future release dates, and know that films are being released in other countries previous to ours are mostly film buffs, and therefore respect films, and will wait. (Either if it is 12 months for Bad Santa or 6 months for School of Rock)

1a. However, some are not, and therefore I also agree that release dates should be aligned worldwide. However, movies like Saw, which the producers weren't sure about, and weren't sure about reviews/probable success levels, tested the water in the smaller market of the UK, before giving it a much larger release in the US that it would have got otherwise.

However, releasing King Arthur, (filmed in Britain, stars are British, legend is British,) thrree weeks after the US date is a joke.

2. Most of the Americans are moaning about their prices. $15 for a CD is peanuts. In the UK, the cheapest we can get it in stores is £10, which equates now to nearly $20. $8 film tickets ~ we pay £6 ($13) $20 DVDs ~ we pay £15 ($28) $40 xbox/PS2 games ~ £35 ($65)

You get it a lot better than we do.

The fact is its a vicious circle.

A. People start to download loads and loads of films, this causes the industry money. => B. Films make less box office than they should do. => C. Exec "Well, the last Orlando Bloom movie made money; while Birthday Girl starring Nicole Kidman bombed, so we'll give that German guy another $90 mil and throw the Butterworth's out on their ass.)

D. Kid "Efin hell. Another Orlando Bloom movie that the trailer makes look good and then is most likely crap. Well I can't afford £6 so Ill download it.

See A.

The point is while people keep pirating films, the studios are going to resort to churning out the same sort of films, and while theatres are making money on the bigger films, they're going to show more screenings of them, and this will cause the little films to make less money.

The reason ticket prices are so much is because each venue has to make enough money for the distributor (who takes most of the ticket) or the distributor will say no more and give them no more films. This obviously hurts them, and therefore they have to make sure the ticket prices are high enough to ensure they keep getting the films, so they can keep selling the popcorn.

Lats year I saw 46 movies at the box office, and aprt from a few duds i was conned into (Van Helsing- by a good trailer), (Agent Cody Banks 2 - hot blonde), (Along Came Polly - Ben Stiller) and (Catwoman -Friend) I was happy to have seen a good 35 of them. This, in my opinion was the ebst year of film I have seen.

46 films is nearly one a week. Therefore stop moaning; get off your ass and see every film you wanna see at the cinema. Don't ever download anything ever again, and guess what; that's the only way films will improve. Once execs see that the only films making money are the intelligent ones.

Quote: Originally posted by James Reader Something catches my eye in the article: "Last year, Shrek 2 DVD sales were much less than expected and Harry Potter 3 shifted less than half the number of units of its prequel."

Well, I don't know if the Shrek 2 sales refer to just Europe or the whole world.

Sorry, it's not explicit in the article but this statement was presented based on UK sales evidence.

Quote: As for pricing. I can accept the cost analysis. But it doesn't answer the most important question. If films like Kill Bill 1 and 2 can be sold for £9.99 now, the latter only a few months after release, why can't they sell for £9.99 new. The amount of DVD sales and buy-one-get-one-free offers are hurting sales of new DVDs. Buy a DVD new for full price and then see it cheap a month later and you're unlikely to buy any subsequent DVDs new on release, but wait for the (now, totally inevitable) sale. If they were serious about boosting sales, they would price them between £7.99-£9.99 from the start.

Interestingly, this point was acknowledged, but only in passing, by the MD of Blockbusters, saying he suspects that the initial sale price followed by a later reduced price, then 2 for 1 discount packages etc may be contributing to buyers disbelieving the spin (my word) on DVD pricing. (!)

Quote: Originally posted by MF DOOM The thing is that this cannot be compared to music piracy because at least the record companies usually put out one CD not multiple editions like they do with DVDs. You buy a DVD because you like the movie but then they decide to screw you over by releasing a much better edition with a new transfer etc, then you feel like the one to got robbed.

not that i dont disagree, but there are instances where bands have re released their cds atleast once... Slipknot did this to their first release technically having 3 releases but one was for legal reasons. the other cd was released shortly before or along side so their second album came out...i cant remember

anyhow then when their disk from last summer came out, october 21 i think of 03 the two side projects of the band had rereleases of their own (4 or 5 bonus tracks and a dvd)

point being Roadrunner, Slipknot's label has double diped on what is argueably one of thir most profitable investments

Thanks for clearing the Shrek question up for me Chris. I noticed in the cinema that Jonathan Ross' voice was used for the barman but waited for the credits to confirm it. They didnt even change it to his name, it still said Larry King! I also recognised Joan Rivers voice in the trailer but saw that it had been changed in the released version - credits still said Rivers. Thornton is such a non-celebrity that I didnt even notice who it was.

The thing is that this cannot be compared to music piracy because at least the record companies usually put out one CD not multiple editions like they do with DVDs. You buy a DVD because you like the movie but then they decide to screw you over by releasing a much better edition with a new transfer etc, then you feel like the one to got robbed.

It's very refreshing to read others who feel the same as I do. I hope that someday the RIAA will be charged with racketeering and brought down, nothing but thugs. A very Andre Linoge attitude, "Give me what I want, and I'll go away".

There are a couple of things missed. I'm sure most Wal-Marts and Best Buys around the U.S. do the same; when a DVD is first released it has a price reduction. Usually like this: 30 = 20, 25 = 15 and 20 = 15/13. For me when I want to buy a new title I purchase it the very first day to take advantage of the lower price. A few days later it goes back to full retail. Plus the whole taking advantage of extras, bonus discs and the like.

Does anybody remember back in the day when the industry was trying to charge people for selling used CDs? Claiming it was cutting into their profits. Thugs.

Anyhow, if I miss it (DVD), I still don't pay retail... I go to Ebay. This is something I pretty postive the industy is ignoring. Sales of used/new titles. A great tool to find lower prices on hard to find and new titles. I'd say nearly half of my DVD purchases have been through Ebay. As for CDs, nearly 100%. I become so damn disenchanted over $15 or more for a CD. When I was young I would be stuck with paying too much for an album which only had a couple song I wanted. Not anymore. Every CD I buy is less than five bucks, including shipping. I have no problem it being used, just mint.

Commenting on the theater experience. If you have the time you should visit (if you haven't already) the movie blog site (Canadian based), www.themovieblog.com

The site has audio downloads, their rants. The December 8th, 2004 recording, "The Movie Blog Audio Edition Volume 5". John Campea and Doug Nagy spoke about piracy:

John: So now you've spent 28/29 bucks for a couple of tickets. You've spent 11 bucks, that's if you want medium pops with your popcorn. You go into the theater. You sit down. You watch like 10/15 sometimes 20 minutes worth of commericals. And here's the thing, movies today are not exponentially better than they were five years ago.

Doug: No.

John: But has gotten a whole lot more expensive. So far me, here's what's the problem; the movie industy and you and I have talked about this before on the audio edition. The movie industy has been mounting this huge campaign, 'oh, piracy is cutting into our money, were losing money because of movie prices'. Now here's the thing, have you ever watched, ok even on your computer, ever watched a pirated movie?

Doug: Yeah.

John: Has it ever stopped you from going to a theater and watching a movie?

Doug: No.

John: No, me either! But when you as an industry start charging unbelievable amounts of money, make people who have paid for tickets sit through 10/15 minutes of advertisments, you are inciting revolt. You are inciting people to wanna revolt against your system, against your industry and find other means.

---

In case you're curious, the answer for TV ads in theaters. Movie houses generally only take in about 25% of the revenue of any given film for the first two weeks. Third and forth week about 50%. Fifth and beyond about 75%. Major (expected) blockbusters such as "Star Wars Episode Two: Attack Of The Clones", the studio got 100% of the ticket sales for the first week. Theaters need to make up the loss from the concession stands (which is why they're so expensive) and from selling ad space on their screens to stay in business. Sad fact.

Quote: Originally posted by Chris Gould Worst of all, the voices of genuine personalities such as Larry King and Joan Rivers have been replaced by nobodies like Jonathan Ross and Kate 'Bland as Fuck' Thornton. This totally ruins the joke about the ugly sister having a manly voice, because Ross sounds like a girly girl. The CGI model of the presenter actually looks like Joan Rivers, so what a 'brilliant' idea to replce her with Thornton. How much contempt must they have for viewers to think that we don't know who King and Rivers are? Morons.

Thats the easily dumbest thing I think I've ever heard. Seriously, I'm dying over here. Maybe the competly and utter stupidity of the move is the joke??? lololol

I'd love to see that in a live action movie. Like here comes Bruce Willis, but as soon as he starts talking its really David Beckham's voice...lololol

I can't believe they did that. It makes no sense. If they are doing stupid stuff like that internationally it explains poorer then expected DVD sales. I personally did'nt think the sequel was nearly as good as the first was, just a rehash of the same jokes, so I didnt bother with it.

Shrek 2 was cut by the filmmakers prior to classification after consultation with the BBFC.

The head butt at the end was replaced with a chop to the neck because head butts fall into the BBFC's dangerous 'imitable techniques' category. Of course, chopping someone in the neck is in no way imitable or dangerous...

Secondly, a line of dialogue was altered for what I can only assume to be politically correct reasons. In the original the King says his old crusade wound is acting up. On the DVD it's changed to hunting wound. The fact that the king is voiced by John Cleese, and that the joke is clearly a reference to Basil Fawlty's old line about his war wound playing up seems to have been ignored. To my knowledge this affects every DVD release bar the R1 (even the R3, which is normally identical to the R1, although that has the head butt).

Worst of all, the voices of genuine personalities such as Larry King and Joan Rivers have been replaced by nobodies like Jonathan Ross and Kate 'Bland as Fuck' Thornton. This totally ruins the joke about the ugly sister having a manly voice, because Ross sounds like a girly girl. The CGI model of the presenter actually looks like Joan Rivers, so what a 'brilliant' idea to replce her with Thornton. How much contempt must they have for viewers to think that we don't know who King and Rivers are? Morons.

I admit it! I download movies. But I do buy the originals of most of the ones I download. What gets me is the constant use of scare tactics, telling the pirate movie buyer that this activity is funding terrorists and mobsters. This has been used since the days of video piracy and will continue to be used again and again. Granted this will probably stop a few based on fear, especially in our current climate.

I have a huge DVD collection of 400+ original titles but I do like to try before I buy. When it boils down to it one mans idea of a good move is another mans Ishtar!In the long run I could pop down to my local multiplex and buy a £6 ticket to watch Tom Cruise in Collateral and hate it (like I did). If I, instead, waited and bought the same movie on DVD I could watch it and take it back if I didn't like it! I've seen the movie and not paid a penny. Don't tell me I can't, I done it numerous times. Why don't the movie industry go the itunes route and let us download the movie in Divx format £6 with an option to buy the dvd later...I know the complications and piracy ramifications of this and again who's gonna buy a movie when it's there for free! Piracy is a nasty word, and for us casual users of P2P who are still supporting the industry with our hard earned cash at the end of the day, it's not all clear cut. Surely a movie boss would prefer the likes of me to buy the original or pay the cinema ticket. Case-in-point "The Incredibles". I saw this at my local DLP equipped cinema...I loved it...the first words I spoke after watching it were "That's going on the DVD purchase list". Then I happened to see it, a week later, as a DVD Screener online. I went to the forum to see what people whos had already downloaded it were saying...most comments ran like this... "Awsome film and this screener is top quality...will be buying this one as soon as it's out!" I'd say 98% of all post on that forum had the same jist! So I downloaded it and have watched it 6 times and will be buying the original on February 15th! Okay some won't buy it, O understand that but this is why it's not clear cut. My concern is if the industry are so against piracy why produce DVD screeners? who really needs them? I mean which cinema isn't gonna run Incredibles or other blockbusters that are currently available on screeners? And this whole question of staggered release dates in wordwide multiplexes. Why are more cinemas getting on board the digital projection bandwaggon? I visit the Printworks UCI in Manchester regulary to watch movies in DLP (Digital Light Projection)and the quality is stunning. You get a pristine movie with no pops and clicks or picture jump and it never wears out. The reason for the staggered release is that the movie industry are still using costly film taht we get after the U.S. run! Go DLP, I have a DLP projector at home and I very rarely go the cinema anymore!

This is a little off topic but i am intrigued. Chris Gould mentioned that the UK disc of Shrek 2 was censored but it is not mentioned on the BBFC site. Any more information?

I totally agree with the thoughts on MP3 and music - I have bought lots more CDs through being able to sample them first.

I would never buy a pirate DVD purely because of the poor quality, sure they are cheap but you get what you pay for. Someone mentioned that if you watch a DVD then you dont have to listen to teenagers chatting or mobile phones but if you get a pirate then you still have to contend with these things as they are mostly filmed in the back of cinemas.

I may sound like a goody two shoes but I will always wait for official releases of films.

Well said Gould. I couldn't agree more. Films like Precinct 13 get hundreds of screens in Oregon while an actually intelligent film like The Assassination of Richard Nixon gets one silly theater throughout the entire state. It is shameful. I wish people would stop falling for these cheap films and force the industry to re-think things. It makes me want to punch a hole in the wall just thinking about how things will never get better. Only worse. And in agreement with a post above, one of my lifetime dreams would be to open up a theater which ONLY shows classical films and maybe a few films that are deserving nowaday. I wish I could have witnessed Lawrence of Arabia in a theater auditorium like it was meant to be seen.

It seems like everyone has an opinion on this subject, so I might as well add mine.

Personally speaking, the rate at which I purchase DVDs has dramatically reduced in the last couple of years (specifically the last year). This is because I already own pretty much every film I ever wanted and more, and there are fewer and fewer ‘new’ films that interest me. I use the term ‘new’ cautiously, because there is so much recycled crap thrown our way now that it’s hard to spot the good films amongst the dross. If there is a film that I want now I tend to wait a few months safe in the knowledge that the price will come tumbling down to something that I feel represents value for money (I don’t consider paying £18 for a film value for money in any way).

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned the relatively poor sales of Shrek 2. Well, as someone who handled the PR for the title I can honestly say that they have no one to blame but themselves. In this case Universal were guilty of artificially inflating the retail price of the double-disc set to such a stupid level it’s not hard to see why it didn’t sell as well as they might have hoped. Who is going to pay £23 for a film that can be imported legitimately from Asia for around £8? Not me. It was shameless profiteering based solely on that fact that they perceived Shrek 2 to be a ‘must have’, money-spinning title. Of course it probably didn’t help that Shrek 2 isn’t a patch on the first movie (and the UK disc is censored).

Warner is also guilty of this reprehensible practise, specifically with their releases of the Matrix sequels, which both had RRPs over £20 even though they had very few extras. I don’t understand the counter argument to these high RRPs being that retailers mark them down; do people not stop to think that they can only mark them down so much before cutting their margins to zero? Sure they might have been around £16-£17 when new from most retailers, but they could have been lower had the dealer price been set at a reasonable level.

I’m also appalled by the growing trend of what most people refer to as ‘double dipping’. How many releases does a film need inside the first year (or even longer)? If done properly, the answer should be one: a true Special Edition. Of course this isn’t in the least bit profitable for the ‘poor’ studios. It’s much better for them if they release a bare bones single disc, then a double disc set with better extras, then a Deluxe Edition with slightly more extras, then a Superbit title that claims to offer an improved audio-visual experience…

As others have said, it’s hard to feel sympathy for huge corporations when they take the moral high ground regarding piracy or anything else. It’s not like the corporations have never done anything dubious in their time, on no… The fact of the matter is that they are guilty of far worse, but they have a nice friendly word for it—‘business’.

Studios, worried about losing money? Simply stop paying Ben Affleck millions of dollars to appear in a shitty movie that then requires millions more to ram it down people’s throats in an attempt to make them go and see it. Stop catering to the intellectually challenged and try investing in films that break from the norm; intelligent, interesting films that will sell themselves through word of mouth. Of course I’m living in a dream world with this.

I’m sick to death with all this talk of piracy. I’m sick of hearing how it harms movie studios, funds Al Qaeda and topples governments. I’m sick of having to sit through patronising messages that assume I’m dishonest before watching a movie either at the (overpriced) cinema or in my own home. Most of all I’m just sick of the studios blaming everyone else for their ‘problems’. I’m actually glad I didn’t attend this seminar, because I’d have had a hard time not yelling obscenities at all involved.

we need to go back to respecting film as an art form...this gose to all people not JUST the movie industry...we should get rid of fullscreen all together and JUST release films in their original theatrical presentation

closing thoughts....why the hell does the world revolve around money!!!

We absolutely believe that piracy is the single biggest danger facing the industry. If we don’t tackle it, we’ll be out of jobs in 10 years.

After reading everyone's responses and opinions I think that John Woodward is totally off by about 180 degrees.

The single biggest dangers to the film industry seems to be its own bloodthirsty GREED. If they dont tackle it, they may very well be out of jobs because the system in place will collapse out of consumer discontent.

Yes I feel extremely sorry for Hollywood because instead of making billions of profit they are only making hundreds of millions of profit... Those poor people.

As you can tell I don't feel sorry for Hollywood in the slightest. I don't download and everything I buy is legitimate. To be honest I wouldn't want to own a cheap pirated copy or have a DVD rip downloaded from the internet. Those people who are buying pirated copies aren't going to be buying legitimate DVDs anyway so what revenue would they be losing?

The industry makes money hand over fist from the box-office, then from legitimate DVD sales, DVD rentals , satellite TV, then from TV sales. How much profit do they really need?

A good example of how much money they have made from me for one movie alone, the Terminator...

Seeing as I was too young to go to the cinema they received VHS rental fees. I then purchased a VHS copy. I watched the Terminator many times on TV. I purchased the DVD and have recently purchased another DVD.

That is three copies of a film+a rental+TV money.

I think DVD prices need to come down quite a bit as they are grossly overpriced. I don't think people have stopped buying the DVDs in favour of pirated copies in general. Instead they have purchased over previous years tons of back catalogue and are now they are getting to thepoint, like I am, where there is less to purchase.

Something catches my eye in the article: "Last year, Shrek 2 DVD sales were much less than expected and Harry Potter 3 shifted less than half the number of units of its prequel."

Well, I don't know if the Shrek 2 sales refer to just Europe or the whole world. But either way, the consumer was screwed with Shrek 2. If you wanted the 2 disc in the UK, you had a RRP of £23. If you wanted the bonus disc in America, you had to buy a full screen set of all movies and the 3D special. Secondly, I belive the actual box office has been dropping on each sucessive Harry Potter film. Could it be, some people don't actually want to see the whole series of films?

As for pricing. I can accept the cost analysis. But it doesn't answer the most important question. If films like Kill Bill 1 and 2 can be sold for £9.99 now, the latter only a few months after release, why can't they sell for £9.99 new. The amount of DVD sales and buy-one-get-one-free offers are hurting sales of new DVDs. Buy a DVD new for full price and then see it cheap a month later and you're unlikely to buy any subsequent DVDs new on release, but wait for the (now, totally inevitable) sale.

If they were serious about boosting sales, they would price them between £7.99-£9.99 from the start.

What I find laughable about the RIAA's attack on the then free Napster was their nonstop chanting it was damaging the music industy. What was sorely missed was the fact that sales of independant artists actually went up during that same period. But I guess that bit of news just doesn't fit with their *cough* claims.

Quote: Originally posted by J. Tasca I don't need to go to my local multi-plex and see 8 screens of Elektra. Put some other, smaller, more interesting movies there to draw the people out.

Thats so true, I was born in 1980 and I've always wanted to see classics like The Godfather, or Superman or anything huge from before my time projected on a big screen with enveloping sound like it was meant to be seen. The only way I can come close to that now is by investing 10k + in a good projection system and equipment. I'd gladly fork out $5 to have the experience of anyone of those classics on a movie night or something. Hell, like the advertising said - for an entire generation I had no clue what Star Wars even looked like on the big screen. I'm suprised no one has caught on to the fact that a lot of people want a classic night out.

I think what it is too, is with the age of the internet the consumer has more knowledge and power than ever before. They can get access to more reviews of movies. Follow the movie durring production. Can get an idea for how a movie will be just due to word of mouth before it comes out. People I would say are doing less 'blind' buying of tickets at the boxoffice and are avoiding the bad movies more often now Ex: Catwoman. Studio's just can't accept the fact that they are either making crap or do not want to take chances on good original content (as mentioned above) So who can they blame? Not themselves, so switch it over to the consumer side and blame movie 'pirates'. I think in the era of over bloated salaries and greedy suits. Hollywood has to take a look at itself and do some re-thinking of how it does business. People will still want to have a night out at the movies, but pricing the tickets so high just to pay your over-paid actors will do nothing but drive the consumer away. Especially if they continue with sub-par product. Besides, nobody has sympathy for a milllionaire crying they are not making enough money. I think the studio's have to start taking some chances. There are alot of good independants out there with good ideas that would make for some good movies. Hollywood should go out and support these real 'artists' rather that continue to use the ton of hacks they seem to be using now. There have been alot of interesting films coming out of the film festivals. Hollywood Studio's should be all over this...and not only the ones that win awards. I don't need to go to my local multi-plex and see 8 screens of Elektra. Put some other, smaller, more interesting movies there to draw the people out. Oh yeah, and dropping the price of a ticket wouldn't hurt either. Haven't any of these dummies noticed that over the past few years that the fall in attendance has coincided with the rise in ticket prices to ridiculous levels. What ever happened to the $8 movie?

Agreed. Not that they dont have some valid points, but even the response to this article should be an eye-opener on the consumers attitudes right now, and how they are treated. It reminds me of that whole Metallica/MP3 situation...their music has been absolute CRAP after their BLACK album. Ironically, I own every CD of theirs right up to the black album and havent touched any of their music past that---in any form---because its horrible. So I couldnt help but laugh when the drummer for Metallica said that MP3s were the biggest reason for their sales loss. WHAT A JOKE!! If their albums would have been priced according to quality, I would have paid maybe the 1 dollar their new CDs were worth---if that.

And now, the movie studios are putting the exact same spin on this as the music industry did. They refuse to acknowledge the longstanding issues that consumers have had since the VHS days, and instead of trying to work on satisfying consumers to increase purchasing, they focus only on the "non-consumers" that bite into their profit margins. As someone who purchases legitimate copies of quality releases--CDs and DVDs---I am STILL feeling completely ignored by the evil bean-counters who still insist on running things the old-fashioned rip-off way, and dont feel one ounce of sympathy when they refer to "morally-soft" downloaders. Spin, Spin, Spin.....Im starting to think they hate piracy so much because theyre angry that someone else is using them the way they have used us for decades.

The Movie industry like the music industry complains about the drop in Sales, yet forgets one single critical factor in the contribution to this: THE LACK OF ACTUAL GOOD MOVIES.

For the last 10-15 years it has been virtually nothing but sequels, remakes, book adaptations, everything that came out of the Hollywood exec's 'Mental Real-estate' course.

"Well movies cost so much money to make these days’; we are not willing to take risks on original content. Movies do not cost a lot to make; they only cost a lot if you pay $20m salaries, and spend $54m on CGI.

The movie industry has no-one to blame but themselves. They complain about the immorality of piracy, yet we hear news stories everyday about movie studios being investigated for creative accountancy:

Shareholders sue AOL Time Warner

“AOL Time Warner's owners have sued the media giant. In a court filing on Saturday, the investors claimed that the world's largest media conglomerate had committed fraud by trying to hide a fall in its internet service's revenues from advertising. The lawsuit's aim is to seek damages for anyone who bought AOL Time Warner shares between 18 October 2000 and 17 July this year. Already, the US Justice Department and the US stock market regulator, Securities and Exchange Commission, are investigating AOL Time Warner's accounting practices. The SEC wants to know whether allegations that the company inflated AOL's advertising sales by $270m (£177m) over the last two years are true or not.”

Are these people in any position to lecture the public on morality? No I don’t think so either.

Me, due to the poor value of DVD’s (lets face it how many times, do you actually watch those DVD’s you have bought? Once, twice?) Could it be that the era of people simply buying the DVD ‘so they can own it’ is over, as they have now realized that they did not actually watch the DVD’s they have previously bought any more than once or twice.

Could it be that the public are sick to death of crappy, greed driven sequels and remakes? Could it be that the public really couldn’t care less if Hollywood loses money, and believes they actually deserve to?

Me, since buying a DVD burner a year or so ago, I haven’t purchased a DVD since, I just download the DVD using bittorrent for free, I am certainly not paying to watch a movie I am almost certainly going to be disappointed with. If I like the movie I will hire it out from blockbusters on their ‘rent a chart title get a non-chart title for free’ scheme. This way I get an exact copy of the original movie (without all the menu and ads and the extras crap) which I can then keep. Each movie when adding in the blank disk price, costs me a grand total of £2.16 each to keep.

Personally I couldn’t care less if Hollywood loses money, I couldn’t think of a more deserving bunch of people.

Also thanks to the internet we can make our mind up whether or not we choose to see a movie.

If 90% of the internet critics and users who've seen special previews of it think that a film is crap, then the people who haven't seen it will avoid it like the plague.

For a family outing to the cinema you’re talking £20 and that's before you buy popcorns and drinks.

Why spend that much when you can phone up a movie from sky and it'll only cost you £3 odd and you don't have to suffer with some knob head with his mobile phone or a group of teenagers chattin through the movie.

The way forward for movies is to fuck the cinema completely and just either send them straight through via internet or Sky in encryption form so no one can pirate them.

Besides they can't be that out of pocket if they are paying stars between £5 - £20 million a film, and the average blockbuster costs £50 mill. Then they spend millions on promoting, merchandise, etc.

So until the film industry starts cutting back on the stars paycheque and all the other unnecessary middleman crap that hikes the movie's production costs, then we'll start giving them some sympathy, but until then they can arseholes.

Suits in the studio's whine and cry that box office takes are down and blame it on piracy. Hmmm... could it have to do with the fact that it now costs a small fortune to bring the family out for a movie. Also with the Home theatre market now being so popular people would rather stay at home and watch a movie in the comfort of their own home and on their schedule. Theater's are shooting themselves in the foot by jacking up ticket prices to such stupid levels, but yet it is so convienient for them to blame it on piracy. What I find funny too, is that it cost me about $15 canadian to see a movie now. What do I get for my $15? I first get some idiot up on the screen telling me how bad it is to pirate movies...um..yeah, I paid for the movie dumbass..shutup. Second, I get anywhere from 5-10 minutes of COMMERCIALS!, not movie previews, COMMERCIALS. I can get this at home for free, I don't need to pay to see them. Finally we get to the good stuff, the movie previews and the feature. Recently I find myself going to movies less. I still go to see the summer blockbusters, but I have a nice home theater set-up now. For $15-20 I can sit at home, order some chinese and watch a movie or 2 at my convenience. Not having to deal with any dummies in the theater or the sound not being loud enough.

Now...MP3's. Some artists will cry and moan about how MP3's are so bad and that you are stealing from the artist and all that. Yet, many music 'artists' are seen showing off ipods in their videos. Ok...so you don't like people to download your music on MP3, but you are shown wearing an ipod, an MP3Player! Even if people bought the ipod and attempted to but legit mp3's off of itunes. An ipod holds about 10,000 songs, and itunes has them for 99 cents a song. You would have to be pretty naive to think all ipods out there would be filled with 'legit' mp3's bought at itunes or other legal source. I don't know of many people out there that have $10,000 to burn just on music for their ipod. So recording artist don't want you to download their songs illegally, but have no problem being a product whore for ipods.

I also agree with alot of people about CD's. I believe they are overpriced. I find DVD's to be the better value, but even they could come down a bit in price. Especially with the way the studio's double and triple-dip on some titles. I think doing that promotes piracy more than anything. The studio's are obviously holding out with these 'special editions' to get you to buy the same title 2-3 times. I don't know about you, but I don't like being taken advantage of. I'd be more likely to say 'screw this' and just download the special edition and burn it, and I'm a guy who buy's all his DVD's legit.

I find it funny obout the music industry going on about how record sales are dropping off..and bla bla bla, and it's all because of people downloading mp3s. I don't think that at all. I used to buy alot of cd's. A few a month. Now I find there is just a lack in actual 'good' music. There is the odd good band, but the market nowadays just seems to be bombarded by Britney, or her sister, or Hillary Duff, or her sister, or Lindsay Lohan or Clay Aiken or Ashlee Simpson...all garbage. So for me, there is actually less music out there that is worth me buying. Most of the good stuff I like is from older bands and I own it already, so I'm not going out to buy it again. If the industry starts supporting 'real' artists again and starts to release some good bands/music. Then maybe I will start giving them my money again.

I do wish that there were more 2 disc special editions instead of a single disc to be followed by a 2 disc trend in the USA. I wouldn't mind having to wait an extra month or two for a 2 disc SE as a first release of a movie to DVD if it meant less 1 disc releases to be double dipped later.

Quote: Originally posted by Me You That was a really interesting article.

A few thoughts -

a) Simultaneous release of movies worldwide would help cut down on a percentage of piracy. Bill in australia wont be as tempted to download a theatrical movie that Bob in the US went to see in the theaters 9 months ago.

b) Media products such as DVD's, CD's, and even movie tickets are WAAAAAAY overpriced. I believe that DVD is the best consumer value on the market for the material that is provided but the cost of doing so since the format took off is so low compared to the profit margain, that having $30 movies or higher makes no sense. My local theater charges nearly $20 for a single ticket. Thats almost as much as it would cost to own. If piracy is hurting Hollywood so bad, why do they keep having record box office business year after year? It's a sappy, fictional, violin strumming crock.

So true Me You - I bought a genuine copy of "Cats & Dogs" from Canada 6 months before it was released here in Australia. When you look at an average family here in Australia (with 2.5 kids) it would cost around 50AUD just to buy tickets let alone get to the movies, drinks & popcorn, etc. Compare that with the average price of a DVD (at department stores) of 30AUD, why woulnd't you go for the DVD? The cost of your equipment over time will easily be justified. The only DVD's that I have ever copied are backups for my own extensive (for me anyway 250+ movies)collection so if the kids grab a disc and damage it then it wont bother me (or cost me). I have never lent mine out for copying as it costs me money as well as the company that made it (after all I had to buy the disc didn't I?). Give me the original, not a crappy copy. Due to mainly only single-layer media for DVD being available (Dual-layer is not cost effective still and may never be), most discs must be reauthored if you want to copy it and the movie and extras mostly will be bad quality. The double dipping must go! Here in Australia FOX are starting to release 1 and 2 disc editions of movies (I, Robot and Day After Tomorrow to name some). This works great for people that want the extra features and for people that don't (I know a few people that hate extras). There is only a few dollars difference between the editions (25AUD single disc and 32AUD double disc) and I think this is a good way to go. If they want to add a super-duper collectors edition as well, please do except release them all at the same time! And none of the Super-bit cr*p! Optimal picture and sound on ALL versions of a movie! I don't think we really have to worry about the new formats too much - it is just natural progression of the technology and in most of the forums being conducted by the leading formats -blu-ray, HD-DVD - they will be making sure that the units are backward compatable with current DVD. Who knows where it will all go? We are now seeing 9.1 Amplifiers for example. I believe we should still support the studios as they need to make money to produce more content but they also need to stop ripping us off! Just my rant....

Quote: Originally posted by Matt Joseph I totally agree with that and find it more of a scapegoat than anything. My theory...our beloved DVD is the main culprit for the drop in CD sales over the past few years. People only have so much disposable income to spend on entertainment and with the rise in popularity of DVD and people buying more and more of them each year their buying habits have shifted away from music to movies on the new format. I used to purchase new CDs on a weekly basis, but since 1998 my disposable income has gone more to DVDs with each progressing year to the point were I purchase only a handful of CDs each year. If you take a closer look at sales figures for each format over the past seven years, there is a correlation between the rises and falls in each respective format's sales. I'm sure illegal MP3s do contribute to a loss in sales, but the chicken little RIAA can tell you that MP3s are making the sky fall all they want...they'll never admit to the success of their friends at the MPAA as the #1 reason.

That's pretty much my feelings about CDs.

I have only very recently gotten into CDs. I was a cassette man up until the summer of '03. (I didn't have a CD player in my vehicle. Finally bought a CD player in that previously mentioned time frame.) The reason why I held onto the cassette format for so long, was that CDs were just too damned expensive. Why pay $15-20 on a CD, when a cassette was $10-12? Only the recent price drop has made getting CDs worth it.

And then even then, the relatively lower price of DVDs per minute of entertainment, make them more attractive. A CD has a maximum of what? 75 minutes worth of music? Would anybody continuously buy 75 minute movies for $15-20? Hell no.

So when it comes to "shall I buy a CD or DVD?" I'll usually pick the DVD.

Quote: Originally posted by david white here is my thought about mp3 screwing over the music industry...IT DIDNT!!! I totally agree with that and find it more of a scapegoat than anything. My theory...our beloved DVD is the main culprit for the drop in CD sales over the past few years. People only have so much disposable income to spend on entertainment and with the rise in popularity of DVD and people buying more and more of them each year their buying habits have shifted away from music to movies on the new format. I used to purchase new CDs on a weekly basis, but since 1998 my disposable income has gone more to DVDs with each progressing year to the point were I purchase only a handful of CDs each year. If you take a closer look at sales figures for each format over the past seven years, there is a correlation between the rises and falls in each respective format's sales. I'm sure illegal MP3s do contribute to a loss in sales, but the chicken little RIAA can tell you that MP3s are making the sky fall all they want...they'll never admit to the success of their friends at the MPAA as the #1 reason.

a) Simultaneous release of movies worldwide would help cut down on a percentage of piracy. Bill in australia wont be as tempted to download a theatrical movie that Bob in the US went to see in the theaters 9 months ago.

b) Media products such as DVD's, CD's, and even movie tickets are WAAAAAAY overpriced. I believe that DVD is the best consumer value on the market for the material that is provided but the cost of doing so since the format took off is so low compared to the profit margain, that having $30 movies or higher makes no sense. My local theater charges nearly $20 for a single ticket. Thats almost as much as it would cost to own. If piracy is hurting Hollywood so bad, why do they keep having record box office business year after year? It's a sappy, fictional, violin strumming crock.

As for CD's, well that ship sunk a long time ago. Many people will never buy another one again. A soundtrack to a movie often costs more then the actual DVD, which would include a rich presentation and features. After the Recording Industry showed the world their true colors, I doubt anyone is feeling sorry for them.

c) As far as hi def media is concerned, there is no way it can succeed beyond a niche product anytime soon. I've been a film buff all my life, and I dont even have an HDTV, let alone know anyone else that does. In order for a format to succeed acceptance has to be universal. I can hardly see people running out in mass to buy truckloads of high def products when most are content with a round 19 inch and no external audio.

The industry should have done some more research and realized that they are dependant upon consumers. All the publicity campaigns and lawsuits does is alienate consumers.

Instead of biting the hand that feeds them, maybe they should have decided to embrace new media earlier on instead of wasting their own time and money fighting the future. The lawsuits were all shams, based upon figures that were twisted, and were often targeted at precisely the wrong people - A major recording studio sues a 12-year-old girl for downloading one song, and expects a court to sympathize with THEM? Get real.

In the case of "Tapping The Vein" I ended up searching out and buying the band's complete CDs (well minus those few CD-Rs they put out when they first started).

As for the topic. It's just about greed, not much else. Look at the whole public domain issue. The law here in the U.S. got streched again. For crying out load, most of Disney's blockbusters have been based on public domain titles.

And yeah, if you're gonna release a DVD do it right the first time, none of this double dipping.

One last thing that pisses me off. The industry is really pushing their new format(s). Ok. It's a stupid idea so very soon, but ok. Why the hell are you still producing DVDs? NO SERIOUSLY!

If you know you're gonna make it obsolete why still sell new titles? Just say, radio, television and print: 'We're moving to a new format. A new dawn of digital entertainment. You will be amazed. You will be awed. Coming [insert time frame], until then no new DVDs. But you can still enjoy the your favorite movies on low priced videos. Thank you.' If they did this right off the bat, I believe they would get a far better reception.

I for one hope HD-DVD/Blue-Ray falters. I've spent way too much money to be given this lame zinger. I waited five years to switch to DVD. F'em!!!

here is my thought about mp3 screwing over the music industry...IT DIDNT!!! in fact because of people copying/riping music i had more exposure to the artists and buy more cds...its that simple

i dont do it anymore, but the ONLY movie i downloaded i intended on buying the day it came out anyhow (DareDevil.

BUT DVD pricing is a big issue, i mean think about anime titles, even though it has a smaller audience, the disks are rediculusly priced...i think... but overpriced in the same way the Star Trek season boxes are over priced

i mean $150 for an 8 disk boxed set with virtually no special features and medium video quality...mostly due to single layer...and they are easy to rip/copy so i have friends who dont buy anime unless they know it is good...besides im a quality biatch so i am picky about downloaded movies anyhow

well i do/dont see why the movie industry is scared by dual layer burners, i mean they might feel they should put a macrovision of sorts on the new disks...but here is the real truth

PEOPLE WHO COPY MEDIA ONLY DO IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO MONEY!!! when i have money i buy cds but when i dont or dont feel the artist is worthy, i dont buy the cd

Just one comment about film release dates. I have to say one thing...when a film is not released simultaneously, like say a few months later over here in the U.K...that's just asking for piracy. Especially when it's so easy to get copies today. Incredibles, Meet The Fockers to name a few of late, were all released much later, and were great films. But why not release it at the same time and you'll atleast reduce some of the piracy anyway.

The new technology (Blu-Ray etc and beyond) is still a long way off, so nothing going to change dramatically any time soon - everyone's still gonna buy DVDs, there'll be some more global day 'n' date cinema outings, the accelerated DVD releases and, most of all, a lot of press against piracy etc, trying to build up a publicity campaign in the general populations mind and the mainstream media's eye. In the UK now some ad or other to this effect seems to run before every film in the cinema. I'm guessing this is the case, or is becoming so in other countries?

The industry's looking for real financial stamina in the long run, hence all the discussion about the new technologies. They're looking several steps down the line. The middle men won't jump at it first of all either, they've got too much to lose and a lot more cash to be make out of DVDs yet. It will be a gradual trend shift over time. Like Mal says, it'll start with the wealthy £burners and drip down - just as DVD is doing at the moment; then marketing, fashion, and newer affordable hardware will corral people that way.

You're right, current DVD prices are a real issue, and one some of the industry won't deal with. Screen International tried to set up a panel discussion specifically about this ... and nobody would do it. It's the kind of attitude that puts the punter off buying legit and in a mind not to believe any of the spin they might throw out.

Personally, what narks me is the forced double-dip at these high prices. Why not release a quality first edition ? Don't hash a single disc, then chug out a double disc uncut with flimsy extras, then a CE or SE with alt commentary and a better pic 'n' audio, then a director's cut with (ooh) postcards and improved extras....grrrr.... just do it right first time and people may be more amenable to paying. Thinking about it, seeing as they can get so much more on a HD/Blu-Ray, that may be the way they'll start off marketing them, as more comprehensive package straight away...

I hope Blu-Ray/HD DVD is still a ways off, I can't afford to re-buy everything. In comparison to CDs, DVDs are better priced, but I would love to see them drop a bit. $15-$20 for a CD is idiotic, no CD should cost more than $5. This is comming from a guy who's been in small time bands, and played shows with local and national acts trying to break into the mainstream. Their chances for mainsteam success were often sabatoged by the high cost of CDs. When companies can't sell, they won't sign, etc., etc. Blah blah blah, you've all heard it before.

awe!!! poor film industry !!!! all together now ,"what a joke", they have constantly ripped off the consumer just like the record industry! we can all remember those famous words "cd's will be cheaper to buy than records" what a joke!!! and now we have dvd's costing the consumer £15-£20 per film just as much as vhs in the good old days!!! if the industry considered the consumers as much as they considered the actors,directors,producers etc then they would slow down piracy to a crawl (not stop ,thats impossible im a realist after all) instead they insist on paying their own people mega bucks then rip us off in every department i.e cost of dvd,video,tv rights,cinema tickets, etc get real film studios ,music studios drop ya prices!!!! this will work,give it a try!!!!! dvd's are too expensive cd's are too expensive videos where available are too expensive you are all living in cloud cockoo land thanks chris

Quote: Originally posted by Milla Freak I don't know how i feel about Blu-Ray. I think it's a little to early to move away from DVD and could be a big mistake.

I doubt it'll be any time soon. The current DVD format is good enough, the new formats will probably be taken up only by those with the cash to burn.

The general populations will likely only go that way after they have been pushed in the direction of high definition TVs, and that will only happen when all the major digital platforms use it as standard. In the UK the digital terestrial boxes aren't up to the high definition broadcasts AFAIK so there's a very, very long way to go.

Very interesting. A little to over dramaticzed. But if the bottom line is cheaper DVDs availible more quickly then I am happy. They should have done this from the begining. Seriously who is going to wait 6 months to pay 20$ for Team America when you can buy it in China Town before the premire for 5$???

I don't know how i feel about Blu-Ray. I think it's a little to early to move away from DVD and could be a big mistake. DVD players have only recently become affordable to everyone, switching to new expensive hardware could be industry suicide.

Besides I still but DVDs and so does everyone I know. And the people i know who download only do it for movies they wouldn't have bought anyway. Like Alexander, or Gigli.