QuoteReplyTopic: Arguments with Atheists Posted: 10 June 2014 at 1:06pm

Salam All,

I wanted advice as to how provide counter arguments from Atheists :

1) they argue that we teach religion as a fact when it is based on faith.
2) We have no evidence of existence of god.
3) if god existed, then horrible things in the world would not happen i.e innocent children dying, getting molested, raped while god just watches and allows these thing to happen.
4) there are so many religions around the world and everybody claims that theirs is the right one, so how can someone say Islam is the correct path.
5) atheists do not deny god, they say they have no evidence to believe in god, until some kind of proof becomes available they will not believe .
6) if god people are born into Islam are you saying that you were the chosen people ? What about those who were born outside of Islam , they are already doomed , as they were chosen by god to be in their respective religion.
7) if we believe in destiny , then god already knows who will go to hell therefore what is the use of this so-called test?

These are some of the arguments , I would appreciate your responses. Thank you.

I will give you my understanding of God, religion and anything that is connected with it. In Shaa Alaah I hope it is of benefit.

Geeks wrote:

1) they argue that we teach religion as a fact when it is based on faith.

Well to those who have faith in God Almighty it is a FACT. Once you are or become a believer in the Creator then your whole life revolves around it. For example, praying five times a day is not easy for some people.

Geeks wrote:

2) We have no evidence of existence of god.

On the contrary, as a believer in Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and what he has sent down to us as revelations there are pages and pages of examples. For example, just look around you as everything you see is a sign of God as He has created everything. Life itself is proof.

Geeks wrote:

3) if god existed, then horrible things in the world would not happen i.e innocent children dying, getting molested, raped while god just watches and allows these thing to happen.

Every human being is given a free will which means that we can choose to do either good or evil. We are all 'assigned' a devil and many of us would rather listen to him than God Almighty.

As for God watching and allowing these things to happen, all of us will be accounted for our actions on the Day of Judgment. He has given us laws to obey and to follow and for those who break it then there are terrible consequences. Breaking of God's Law's are called sin.

Sahih International

And
Satan will say when the matter has been concluded, "Indeed,
Allah had promised you the promise of truth. And I promised
you, but I betrayed you. But I had no authority over you
except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do
not blame me; but blame yourselves. I cannot be called to your
aid, nor can you be called to my aid. Indeed, I deny your
association of me [with Allah ] before. Indeed, for the
wrongdoers is a painful punishment." 14:22

Geeks wrote:

4) there are so many religions around the world and everybody claims that theirs is the right one, so how can someone say Islam is the correct path.

That statement is correct, however, one must have guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala to determine that they are following the right religion. He tells us in the Qur'an that He guides whom He wills.

Geeks wrote:

5) atheists do not deny god, they say they have no evidence to believe in god, until some kind of proof becomes available they will not believe .

See answer to question 2.

But if they are asking for proof as in the angels coming down from heaven and proclaiming that God is the truth then they will have that but then the world will end.

Sahih International

And
those who do not expect the meeting with Us say, "Why were
not angels sent down to us, or [why] do we [not] see our
Lord?" They have certainly become arrogant within themselves and
[become] insolent with great insolence. The day they see the
angels - no good tidings will there be that day for the
criminals, and [the angels] will say, "Prevented and
inaccessible."25:21-22

Geeks wrote:

6) if god people are born into Islam are you saying that you were the chosen people ? What about those who were born outside of Islam , they are already doomed , as they were chosen by god to be in their respective religion.

There are good Muslims, bad Muslims and downright ugly Muslims. It is a myth to believe that all Muslims are good. However, there is a school of thought that says that these bad Muslims will be forgiven as they have not associated partners to God.

The second part of your statement requires understanding of Qadr (Pre-destiny). There is a Hadith in which the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) says that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala chose the seed of Adam (Alayhi Salaam) that goes to heaven with His right hand and those going to hell with His left Hand. However, the people chosen for heaven could err and sin and if they do not repent then they can go to hell. Similarly those destined go go to hell can change their destiny by making du'a to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and repenting and asking forgiveness.

Geeks wrote:

7) if we believe in destiny , then god already knows who will go to hell therefore what is the use of this so-called test?

I think I answered this in question 6.

The answer is we can change our destiny by following His commands, living a good life and repenting to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

Geeks wrote:

These are some of the arguments , I would appreciate your responses. Thank you.

Thank you brother Abu Loren, definitely useful for me. But I am afraid that these answers will not be sufficient the atheists as they do not believe in the Quran, so when we reference our answers to the Quranic ayahs... They say the Quran isn't even understood by the Muslims themselves and there are lots of disagreements between the Muslims , so how can they be sure what's true and what's not...

Thank you brother Abu Loren, definitely useful for me. But I am afraid that these answers will not be sufficient the atheists as they do not believe in the Quran, so when we reference our answers to the Quranic ayahs... They say the Quran isn't even understood by the Muslims themselves and there are lots of disagreements between the Muslims , so how can they be sure what's true and what's not...

Salaam

You see that's just the problem. These atheists do not believe in the Truth, the Final Revelation to manking that Allah Subhana has sent down to mankind as a mercy.

There is absolutely nothing we can do to help them. If they do not have the guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala they will not believe nor will they understand what we are trying to say to them.

Contrary to what they believe there aren't that many disagreements between Muslims, we all belive in the fundamentals. I wonder if they are talking about the different Madhabs?

Sometimes it is better not to debate with atheists because they will make you sad and depressed in the end, because you are trying to help them but they seem to drift far and far away into the hell fire.

For example, in this forum I've used a verse from the Qur'an where it states that whoever believes in the Most Meciful unseen they he will have a great reward. But the atheist here ridicule that statement because they want to see what they are worshipping. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us that they will SEE on the Last Day when it will be too late and they belief in Him will not be accepted.

So don't lose heart because as human beings we are limited and leave everything to the One Who Knows All.

Thank you. I agree that it is very hard to argue with them as they ask for proof that the Quran is the word of god. They also use the statement that " Allah will guide whom he wills " against us by saying that , there you go Allah does not want to guide us... It's up to him who he guides, therefore there is absolutely nothing we can do. I wish there was something I could say to bring back some people who have become non-believers . One person is a very close friend of mine, has had bad experience in life , so thinks that if Allah was so mericiful he wouldn't have allowed these things. That's why they do not believe , and if there was a deity , he doesn't need puny creatures like us to worship him. That's another argument . Also this person believes in evolution and firmly believes that if someone can prove the existence to Allah they will believe if not they do not want to worship someone they don't know and don't understand .

Thank you. I agree that it is very hard to argue with them as they ask for proof that the Quran is the word of god. They also use the statement that " Allah will guide whom he wills " against us by saying that , there you go Allah does not want to guide us... It's up to him who he guides, therefore there is absolutely nothing we can do.

The way I understand this conundrum is that because we have been given free will we can actually start relationship with God Almighty. One way is to seek knowledge and sometimes In Shaa Allah one will realise that there is indeed a God and once they have a pure and sincere intention then Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala will guide them to the Straight Path. One can also make du'a and, even though they are atehists, and In Shaa Allah their du'a will be answered.

Geeks wrote:

I wish there was something I could say to bring back some people who have become non-believers . One person is a very close friend of mine, has had bad experience in life , so thinks that if Allah was so mericiful he wouldn't have allowed these things.

If this person knew his deen then he would have known that this life is a test and some people are tested more severely than others. If he/she had read the Qur'an then it tells us

Sahih International

And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,

2:155

As Muslims we must also know the story of Ayyub (Alayhi Salaam) whose family, wealth and everything he had was taken away from him but he patiently endured and never gave up hope on Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and after eighteen years of torment he was given everything that was better than what he had before.

Geeks wrote:

That's why they do not believe , and if there was a deity , he doesn't need puny creatures like us to worship him. That's another argument .

In the Qur'an Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala expicitly tells us that He created mankind and Jinn to worship Him. How do we know that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala doesn't need puny creatures like us to worship Him? That's an arrogant statement to make.

I don't know your friend but it's clearly coming across as if he'she is very arrogant.

Geeks wrote:

Also this person believes in evolution and firmly believes that if someone can prove the existence to Allah they will believe if not they do not want to worship someone they don't know and don't understand .

This is the explanation that most atheist give. Again Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us in the Qur'an that He will reward those who believe in Him unseen. On the flip side, if we all could see Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala then every single one of us will believe. That's not really a test is it?

Again Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us in the Qur'an that those who wish to see Him in person will have that opportunity on the Last Day when He will come down with the angels and spirits and then it will be all too late. That day no repentance will be accepted and those that will see Him when they were disbelievers will go stright to hell.

Many people are deceived by this idea of evolution, it was only a theory and nobody can prove a jot. Of course, if one believes in evolution then the Creator is taken out of the equation. At the end I suppose one has to choose.

Assalamalecum,first of all ask them who created them,y everything is perfect about them,y they have 2 eyes, 2 legs y not 3????, ask them who could have created the whole universe??? Y sun and moon come at their time y don't they come together. Let their wisdom do the working!!!answer to ur last query is given by Allah in ch 13 v 11 of Quran in which Allah saysthat Allah will not change the situation of those who don't want to change themselves.eg me, till I was 21 I was just a namesake muslim just reciting 1 salaah daily and jumuah salaah but now Alhamdulillah I m improved.

1) they argue that we teach religion as a fact when it is based on faith.
2) We have no evidence of existence of god.
3) if god existed, then horrible things in the world would not happen i.e innocent children dying, getting molested, raped while god just watches and allows these thing to happen.
4) there are so many religions around the world and everybody claims that theirs is the right one, so how can someone say Islam is the correct path.
5) atheists do not deny god, they say they have no evidence to believe in god, until some kind of proof becomes available they will not believe .
6) if god people are born into Islam are you saying that you were the chosen people ? What about those who were born outside of Islam , they are already doomed , as they were chosen by god to be in their respective religion.
7) if we believe in destiny , then god already knows who will go to hell therefore what is the use of this so-called test?

__----------------------------------------------------

OK number one, you say we have no evidence of the existences of god...

First off,, I wouldn't really refer to any creator we might have as a god, or Allah Or any other name as it makes us subserviant and I don't think that is our function..

As to proof of existence of a "Creator" ? Yes,, There is plenty of proof without having to believe in hearsay and scriptures but one must first put all belief systems to rest and reboot the brain to become objective about our perceptions..
What are our perceptions? They come from five senses we have, touch, taste, smell, sight, hearing!!
We take these senses into our consciousness by way of electrical impulses to the brain,, so then. One can ask the question with objectivity. What is the true origin of these electrical impulses?? Is it the cup I feel in my hand,? Or could it be that this electronic impulse is just programming my consciousness to experience the cup?
So,,,, one then would try to find clues within himself to conclude this debate,,
My initial question was to ask.. Where did all things we call solid matter originate... Surely anything with any solid matter could not have appeared from space out of nothing?? So what's the alternative??
Electrical energy perhaps?? Something that Can become alive where supposed matter cannot..
A more likely scenario perhaps??

So being metaphorical ,, one could speculate that our creator is pure energy , having come to consciousness and is now having a dream called the human condition of which we are all a part of.
No doubt, we are in a duality as we see conflicts and wars, These events are here to give us new experiences to discover and contribute towards the knowledge of our oneness.
We have segregated borders, religions,languages,politics,even sports teams, These are all conflictive by design,,
And the purpose of this is to allow us to burn our fingers on evil so that we wholeheartedly return to the oneness that we truly are once this lesson is truly learned and understood.
There are some clues in the religious scriptures pertaining to a creator that once read and followed up upon does point to the undeniable way of understanding that this earth is a construct..

Like in genesis, here,,,
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1

Go to paragraph 6. It will suggest a vault that separates the waters from the waters..

That to me is a clue to follow,,, 500 years ago we used to believe that the earth was flat and covered with a glass dome under the great sea.
So.. Why is the sky blue?
How come with a zoom lens I can still see a ship 80 miles away without dipping into the earths curvature?
There are hundreds of these anomalies in life that we fail to observe believing the answers given to us by others are accurate without even bothering to take the time to veryfy for ourselves ,
Perhaps we are too busy dealing with a duality.? Working? Or other distractions to take us away from these points??
Obviously,, you have to make your own investigations to really be sure but it only takes observation if you ask yourself the right questions.
Yes, I conclude for myself that we do have a creator but not a god,, And it certainly does not have a name as its all an integral part of everything you perceive, Including yourself,,
Quantum might be an appropriate word to use when trying to explain where we are and what we are doing...
A subject not entirely understood by the !level of human consciousness but we are getting there .

We are I believe a construct by a higher consciousness and something one might call god is a construct of the human mind,,

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