I've just finished setting up a spreadsheet on Google to track/summarize most of the data that's been posted so far in that thread. (I couldn't post some of the SOS chest data, including some I posted myself, because it wasn't specific enough. SOS chest information also needs the amount of gold found in the chest. Treasure chest data needs the level of the chest.) You can find the Google spreadsheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj2lpjetLFwwdEtVTFlYalB6SDBSTXY4TDFNc3lHVWc&usp=sharing .

If you've been collecting refinement components, I hope you'll consider posting what you've found and where you found it in the thread noted above. I'll keep adding usable data to the Google spreadsheet as its posted. Maybe it will help people draw some conclusions on where they will want to concentrate their efforts if they are inclined to go hunting or stealing for the components.

Stratics Veteran

Basically, Merchants provide usually 4-6 for me at the cost of 8 Cannon shots.

Treasure maps of all levels are random amounts 0-6 found. Can stock up quickly if doitn lvl 4 and under as the spawn goes down in a few seconds.

Stealing can net a decent amount, when your not running into others stealing or getting guard whacked.

I do not have specific numbers on types ive gotten and from where, I have gotten hundreds of them, mostly from maps and merchants. I simply move to0 fast to track a lot of it as I have customers waiting for Fortified and Invulnerable.

SoS chests - 0 to 3 per chest. Not sure yet if this is completely random or if there is a pattern for when these spawn that is associated with the other items that can spawn in SoS chests (e.g., Driftwood Bow, Enchanted Kelp Woven Leggings, Bronzed Armor of the Valkyrie, Antique Wedding Dress, Large Fishing Net, Special or Fabled Fishing Net, or Grapevine section).

Kyronix said the components would be better in Felucca. Haven't seen enough data yet to determine with some certainty if that means Invulnerability-level components will only spawn in Felucca, or if they also have a very rare chance to spawn in Trammel. More data is needed! LOL

If you decide to post in the other thread, please just make sure to note the facet and the chest level. If it's an SOS chest, it would also be good to know what other "special items" spawned in the chest. We've seen SoS chests of every level have components in them (sometimes 1, sometimes 2), but many of them also have no components. So it's not clear yet whether something else that can spawn in those chests is taking the place of the refinement components or exactly what's going on other than just pure randomness. And pirate and merchant ship encounters also might have some variability. Any details you can add will be helpful.

Stratics Veteran

Kyronix said the components would be better in Felucca. Haven't seen enough data yet to determine with some certainty if that means Invulnerability-level components will only spawn in Felucca, or if they also have a very rare chance to spawn in Trammel. More data is needed! LOL

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I can confirm that invulnerability have come from Tram merchant ships.

SoS chests - 0 to 3 per chest. Not sure yet if this is completely random or if there is a pattern for when these spawn that is associated with the other items that can spawn in SoS chests (e.g., Driftwood Bow, Enchanted Kelp Woven Leggings, Bronzed Armor of the Valkyrie, Antique Wedding Dress, Large Fishing Net, Special or Fabled Fishing Net, or Grapevine section). Have seen 2 components spawn in an SOS chest that also came with a t-map and no components spawned in SOS chests that had either an Antique Wedding Dress or the Driftwood Bow.

QUALITY:
Kyronix said the components would be better in Felucca.

Invulnerability-level components have been found in the holds of Trammel merchant ships.

I must apologize, they were from Tokuno (tram-rule-set) Merchant Ships. Although I do not think that will affect the drop rates etc as it is same rule-set as Tram.

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Yeah, I'm kind of assuming they programmed everything dealing with armor refinement component spawning the same for all the facets other than Felucca. That's what I'm calling "Trammel" for purposes of the spreadsheet and that other thread.

By the way, since it sounds like you're selling a lot of this stuff, which types and levels of components seem to sell the best? And are you selling the stolen/looted components, or are you taking the extra step to turn it into plating, thread, or resin before you sell it? Are you seeing any reports about how often people are able to modify all 5 resist caps when using invulnerability-level materials?

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Yeah, I'm kind of assuming they programmed everything dealing with armor refinement component spawning the same for all the facets other than Felucca. That's what I'm calling "Trammel" for purposes of the spreadsheet and that other thread.

By the way, since it sounds like you're selling a lot of this stuff, which types and levels of components seem to sell the best? And are you selling the stolen/looted components, or are you taking the extra step to turn it into plating, thread, or resin before you sell it? Are you seeing any reports about how often people are able to modify all 5 resist caps when using invulnerability-level materials?

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I sell a lot of Studded Leather and Woodland, mostly Fortified. I do sell a decent amount of the lower end one (Defense/Protection/Hardened). Of course Invulnerability is in big demand as that is the hardest to get. I have had several people ask me to set those aside for them. To keep it fair, I have decided to just toss lots of Invulnerability Refinements into the weekly auction on our shard so everyone that wants these rare refinements has a chance to buy them.

As far as the refinements themselves, I fully finish them up with my crafter first so that the people buying them simply need to go to the correct place to use it on their armor (as of yesterday afternoon I was still the only vendor house between Luna and Zento selling completely ready to use refinements on GL). The cost for the NPC ingredients is minimal (25k for 500) and it only takes a few minutes to whip up a bag of them.

At first I priced everything the same. I have since expanded from one vendor to 12, one for each armor type. In each of those I separate the levels (Defense/Protection/Hardened/Fortified) and what I charge is based on the level of the refinement. I use a simple formula, for example Studded Leather starts at 25k for Defense, then simply goes up from there 25k/50k/75k/100k, remember I auction the Invulnerability level. Obviously I charge less for armor types such as ringmail/chainmail/bone and even less for dragon/stone since those aren't very popular armor types. I do sell a decent amount of those types though as people play around with different combinations. I would assume that it is easier to use stone armor, whose refinements are cheaper and more plentiful, to "learn" how to use refinements before using the expensive harder to find ones on your main suit.

Like I mentioned before, I do not keep tabs on what refinements come from where, as I usually am moving around to fast from ship to ship or chest to chest. However I have noticed that Stone and Dragon as well as defense/protection seem to drop more often on tram rule-set treasure maps. Merchant ships have had a healthy mix of armor types as well as a much better mix of hardened/fortified and a few invulnerability. Even though I can farm em from maps really fast, I think for the higher quality ones, it would be worth it to take out merchant ships instead and risk lowering my overall take for the day due to better quality components.

Stratics Veteran

As far as the refinements themselves, I fully finish them up with my crafter first so that the people buying them simply need to go to the correct place to use it on their armor (as of yesterday afternoon I was still the only vendor house between Luna and Zento selling completely ready to use refinements on GL). The cost for the NPC ingredients is minimal (25k for 500) and it only takes a few minutes to whip up a bag of them.

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What do you mean by "I fully finish them up"? I am doing SoSs right now, do I need to do something with them before they can be used. Is there a complete easy to follow list somewhere of all this stuff. I thought imbuing was a pain.

What do you mean by "I fully finish them up"? I am doing SoSs right now, do I need to do something with them before they can be used. Is there a complete easy to follow list somewhere of all this stuff. I thought imbuing was a pain.

If you're going to steal them, you generally have to pick the lock of a crate or box first and then remove the traps on the container with telekinesis, remove trap skill, or just trying to open the container and hoping your character can withstand the damage. Then you generally use the stealing skill to (hopefully) remove the item from the container and hope that guards are not called. You'll find the items in Fel shops that have blacksmith, carpenter, cobbler, and tanner NPCs. Tailor shops seemed a bit iffy.

You have to have your crafter combine the appropriate stealable/lootable component with 20 of the appropriate raw material (alloy, braid, or flasks) that were purchased from blacksmith, weaver, or carpenter NPCs in order to make plating, thread, or resin. Then you can take the plating, thread or resin to a specific trade shops in Fel or Trammel and actually apply it to your nonmeddable armor.

The level of the plating, thread, or resin you're applying determines how many resist caps will be raised (or lowered) and the impact on your character's Max DCI. The Defense-level materials only affect one resist cap and you specify which resist cap you want to have raised or lowered. With all other levels, you specify the order in which you want to have the resist caps raised (or lowered), with a slim possibility (you'll see it on the gump and I think it's generally 15% or 30%) that the last resist you specified (the "bonus mod") won't be modified at all. You can refine a piece of armor multiple times if you don't like the result you got with previous attempts, but there doesn't seem to be any way at present to completely remove it once you start messing with a piece.

Stratics Veteran

I have gotten an invul from an SOS 30k chest tram, studded. Sad to say the 10k SOS chests can have better number drops then an ASOS white. Finnished over 100 SOSs. Stopping and starting the next day when they have 5 in a row produce nothing. Seems the luck gage runs low if just hammering a bunch out. Could be other factors. I don't SOS untill pack is nearly full of them. Waste of time sailing back and forth doing just a few. Might be time for ocean recalling runes. I'd make more pies if the mats stacked or my cook didn't have to maintain a boat at the seafare. Parked there waiting for a restock of non stacking items to make more non stacking items is well, bullfish. Fisher skill only use boat runes in a book that only work while in the hold. Maybe the pilot could hold them and a window option for travel. Recall only happens with a clear deck of no trash, friends or pets. If they are friends then they can make runes to get to the boats new location.

I sell a lot of Studded Leather and Woodland, mostly Fortified. I do sell a decent amount of the lower end one (Defense/Protection/Hardened). Of course Invulnerability is in big demand as that is the hardest to get. I have had several people ask me to set those aside for them. To keep it fair, I have decided to just toss lots of Invulnerability Refinements into the weekly auction on our shard so everyone that wants these rare refinements has a chance to buy them.

As far as the refinements themselves, I fully finish them up with my crafter first so that the people buying them simply need to go to the correct place to use it on their armor (as of yesterday afternoon I was still the only vendor house between Luna and Zento selling completely ready to use refinements on GL). The cost for the NPC ingredients is minimal (25k for 500) and it only takes a few minutes to whip up a bag of them.

At first I priced everything the same. I have since expanded from one vendor to 12, one for each armor type. In each of those I separate the levels (Defense/Protection/Hardened/Fortified) and what I charge is based on the level of the refinement. I use a simple formula, for example Studded Leather starts at 25k for Defense, then simply goes up from there 25k/50k/75k/100k, remember I auction the Invulnerability level. Obviously I charge less for armor types such as ringmail/chainmail/bone and even less for dragon/stone since those aren't very popular armor types. I do sell a decent amount of those types though as people play around with different combinations. I would assume that it is easier to use stone armor, whose refinements are cheaper and more plentiful, to "learn" how to use refinements before using the expensive harder to find ones on your main suit.

Like I mentioned before, I do not keep tabs on what refinements come from where, as I usually am moving around to fast from ship to ship or chest to chest. However I have noticed that Stone and Dragon as well as defense/protection seem to drop more often on tram rule-set treasure maps. Merchant ships have had a healthy mix of armor types as well as a much better mix of hardened/fortified and a few invulnerability. Even though I can farm em from maps really fast, I think for the higher quality ones, it would be worth it to take out merchant ships instead and risk lowering my overall take for the day due to better quality components.

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Great info! Hopefully more people will report their findings so it becomes more apparent what the relative rarity is for each type and level of component. Miss Echo had some good comments in the other thread about how quickly she was able to gather the components using stealing versus other methods that might be useful to anyone else thinking of acquiring these in large quantities for sale or use.

Is anyone trying their hand yet at applying the components on made-to-order suits? If so, what's been your experience with using them and what are your thoughts about pricing suits that use the components? Has it created more work and income for your crafter?

If you kept track of what you got from the other chests, would you have time to post them in the other thread so I can plop the numbers in the spreadsheet too? It's also helpful to note there when you didn't get anything, and if you did get something whether or not anything else of a special nature also spawned in the SOS chest. Maybe we can talk Kyronix into changing up the coding a bit to guarantee that there will also be at least one component per SoS chest and not so many dud chests.

I'm also curious about what experiences people have had with champion spawn boss loot. There's another thread that MrSmithers started that indicated the components may not be reliably spawning in that loot either.

That ridiculously bloated spreadsheet is 100% proof that refinements are a complete joke.

Nice job everyone

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Creating the spreadsheets and the thread in the crafter subforum and this thread are ways that I could think of to help gather constructive feedback for the dev team on the process of acquiring the refinement components and using them. The time and money has already been spent to put them into the game. If they aren't quite having the desired effect, one way we as players can help to change that is by actually getting involved with finding and using them and then discussing the results as adults, in a calm, rational manner. Using the components may not be everyone's cup of tea. Finding and selling them may be more appealing to some people, or at least something new to do.

If you could change something about the armor refinement system (other than completely scrapping it), what would you change and why?

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Creating the spreadsheets and the thread in the crafter subforum and this thread are ways that I could think of to help gather constructive feedback for the dev team on the process of acquiring the refinement components and using them. The time and money has already been spent to put them into the game. If they aren't quite having the desired effect, one way we as players can help to change that is by actually getting involved with finding and using them and then discussing the results as adults, in a calm, rational manner. Using the components may not be everyone's cup of tea. Finding and selling them may be more appealing to some people, or at least something new to do.

If you could change something about the armor refinement system (other than completely scrapping it), what would you change and why?

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Since refinements were first posted didnt about 99% of the UHALL population voice immediate displeasure/concerns over how complicated they were?
Then after weeks/months of posting feedback didnt about 99% of the UHALL population voice displeasure/comcerns over the fact that the devs listened to nothing and plowed forward anyway?

No offense to you personally Tina but why in the world should anybody now take the time to test and post feedback now that they are cemented into the game?

I am glad that the small and obsessive group of UO mathematicians is currently having fun with the refinements. But what are they gonna do in 6 months when they cracked all the numbers? Go back to being bored and not logging in again?
Havent you been posting for months that you dont play much at all anymore Tina?
You love spredasheets and number crunching more then anyone but how long is this refinement nonsense gonna keep you playing once you figure it out?

Im sorry but it just seems like a gigantic waste of time and resources for something that will not improve gameplay one bit.
All this just to appease the few nutjobs that have been whining for years because they are tired of what? Leather. Thats ridiculous.
And now Divine Fury is a total joke and I need to carry more red pots because of the across the board stamina nerfs that were implemented just to try and make sense of all the refinements.

No offense to you personally Tina but why in the world should anybody now take the time to test and post feedback now that they are cemented into the game?

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I guess I have hope that the people who were involved with putting the system into the game have enough professionalism and enough pride in their work to listen to the feedback and try to polish the system so that it has a broader appeal. Listening to feedback isn't always an easy thing to do. But it's something we all encounter at some point in our lives and either have the grace to accept it in the spirit with which it was tendered or let ourselves be wounded by it and then put up a wall so we think we have protected ourselves from it.

Let's give Kyronix and Bleak a chance to prove that they are good listeners and have Mesanna's blessing to go ahead and tweak the system so more people will get involved with it in some way and find something new, interesting, or fun to do in UO.

As someone that I think primarily spends his time PvPing, what aspects of the system as it now runs even affect you and is the effect good, bad, or neutral? What would you like to see change so that the system grabs you more completely and gets you or your buddies to play even 15 minutes more per day a few times a week or month?

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

I guess I have hope that the people who were involved with putting the system into the game have enough professionalism and enough pride in their work to listen to the feedback and try to polish the system so that it has a broader appeal. Listening to feedback isn't always an easy thing to do. But it's something we all encounter at some point in our lives and either have the grace to accept it in the spirit with which it was tendered or let ourselves be wounded by it and then put up a wall so we think we have protected ourselves from it.

Let's give Kyronix and Bleak a chance to prove that they are good listeners and have Mesanna's blessing to go ahead and tweak the system so more people will get involved with it in some way and find something new, interesting, or fun to do in UO.

As someone that I think primarily spends his time PvPing, what aspects of the system as it now runs even affect you and is the effect good, bad, or neutral? What would you like to see change so that the system grabs you more completely and gets you or your buddies to play even 15 minutes more per day a few times a week or month?

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Fixing 9 year old bugs and working on pvp game mechanics such as trapped boxes would make me very happy.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

If you're going to steal them, you generally have to pick the lock of a crate or box first and then remove the traps on the container with telekinesis, remove trap skill, or just trying to open the container and hoping your character can withstand the damage. Then you generally use the stealing skill to (hopefully) remove the item from the container and hope that guards are not called. You'll find the items in Fel shops that have blacksmith, carpenter, cobbler, and tanner NPCs. Tailor shops seemed a bit iffy.

You have to have your crafter combine the appropriate stealable/lootable component with 20 of the appropriate raw material (alloy, braid, or flasks) that were purchased from blacksmith, weaver, or carpenter NPCs in order to make plating, thread, or resin. Then you can take the plating, thread or resin to a specific trade shops in Fel or Trammel and actually apply it to your nonmeddable armor.

The level of the plating, thread, or resin you're applying determines how many resist caps will be raised (or lowered) and the impact on your character's Max DCI. The Defense-level materials only affect one resist cap and you specify which resist cap you want to have raised or lowered. With all other levels, you specify the order in which you want to have the resist caps raised (or lowered), with a slim possibility (you'll see it on the gump and I think it's generally 15% or 30%) that the last resist you specified (the "bonus mod") won't be modified at all. You can refine a piece of armor multiple times if you don't like the result you got with previous attempts, but there doesn't seem to be any way at present to completely remove it once you start messing with a piece.

Startle and Hen posted a bunch of additional results, which I've added to the spreadsheet on Google. Thanks to you and everyone else (Miss Echo, Picus, cdavbar, Frarc, Aurelius) who has been posting in that thread with your results! We're up to 456 items counted at this point. Hopefully the results are helping people decide where to focus their hunting, plundering, and stealing efforts and also helping with pricing the items for selling them to other players.

In looking at the information below, remember that the following types of items reinforce armor (i.e., increase resist caps while decreasing the maximum DCI): Varnishes, Scours, and Cures. The following types of items cause armor to deflect more damage (i.e., increase the maximum DCI while decreasing resist caps): Glosses, Polishes, and Washes.

When applied, the various levels of components affect the following number of resist caps. For each resist cap that is ultimately affected, there will be a 1% change to the Max DCI, e.g., if you use an Invulnerability-level component and all 5 resist caps are affected, there will be a 5% change to the Max DCI.

Invulnerablity: Affects 4 resist caps, with a small chance to affect all 5 resist caps.

So far, the components that no one has reported in the other thread with usable specific information on where they found it include the following:

Varnish of Invulnerability for Woodland Armor

Polish of Invulnerability for Ringmail Armor

Polish of Invulnerability for Chainmail Armor

Polish of Invulnerability for Platemail Armor

Polish of Invulnerability for Samurai Platemail Armor

Polish of Fortification for Samurai Platemail Armor

Polish of Hardening for Ringmail Armor

Polish of Hardening for Chainmail Armor

Polish of Hardening for Platemail Armor

Polish of Protection for Chainmail Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Ringmail Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Chainmail Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Platemail Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Samurai Platemail Armor

Scour of Fortification for Gargish Platemail Armor

Wash of Invulnerability for Hide Armor

Cure of Invulnerability for Studded Leather Armor

Cure of Fortification for Hide Armor

Cure of Fortification for Bone Armor

Cure of Hardening for Hide Armor

The items that have only been reported once include:

Gloss of Invulnerability for Gargish Stone Armor

Polish of Invulnerability for Dragon Armor

Polish of Fortification for Gargish Platemail Armor

Polish of Hardening for Gargish Platemail Armor

Polish of Protection for Gargish Platemail Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Gargish Platemail Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Dragon Armor

Scour of Fortification for Ringmail Armor

Scour of Fortification for Samurai Platemail Armor

Scour of Hardening for Ringmail Armor

Scour of Hardening for Platemail Armor

Scour of Hardening for Samurai Platemail Armor

Scour of Protection for Dragon Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Studded Samurai Armor

Scour of Invulnerability for Bone Armor

Wash of Fortification for Studded Leather Armor

Wash of Fortification for Bone Armor

Wash of Protection for Studded Leather Armor

The top 12 most commonly reported items so far (greatest to least):

Gloss of Defense for Woodland Armor (16)

Wash of Defense for Hide Armor (15)

Gloss of Defense for Gargish Stone Armor (14)

Varnish of Hardening for Gargish Stone Armor (14)

Varnish of Defense for Woodland Armor (14)

Varnish of Defense for Gargish Stone Armor (13)

Gloss of Hardening for Gargish Stone Armor (11)

Gloss of Protection for Woodland Armor (10)

Gloss of Protection for Gargish Stone Armor (10)

Varnish of Protection for Woodland Armor (10)

Scour of Defense for Platemail Armor (10)

Cure of Defense for Studded Samurai Armor (10)

We've had no reports yet of finds from the sources listed below, so it would be great if people could post their reports for these, as well as anything else they've been checking/doing. The more results we can add to the spreadsheet, the more accurate of a picture we will get on where various types of these items spawn and also anything that's happening (or more likely, not happening) that seems amiss.

Stratics Veteran

You can refine a piece of armor multiple times if you don't like the result you got with previous attempts, but there doesn't seem to be any way at present to completely remove it once you start messing with a piece.

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Right, we keep running into the same thing: apply a new refinement, and it doesn't go on top of what was already done, but rather a completely fresh refinement. If you apply polish of defense to get +1 DCI and -1 fire cap on a piece of platemail, you can't negate it by applying scour of defense, since scour of defense would wash over.

Lynk still has not replied as to how he did what he claimed he did, which I flatly say is impossible based on our results.

Stratics Veteran

This may be common knowledge but refinements do not stack on the same piece of armor. Earlier I tried to stack a lower level washed thread on top of a piece of armor that had previously been refined with a higher level washed thread. The refinements from the defense level thread overrode the refinements from the Invulnerability thread. Just a warning from my stupid mistake.

Stratics VeteranSupporterStratics Legend

I also have got more over the last few days from shops but I didn't keep track of them. I plan on stealing some of the information on your spreadsheet to make one for myself and I will pass along my totals.

This all said I am shocked with the clear lack of a single person being able to get the items to make a suit that will match.

Stratics Veteran

This all said I am shocked with the clear lack of a single person being able to get the items to make a suit that will match.

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The only component that is hard to get to complete a suit that will match is the invulnerability components. They are fairly rare, and with good reason. However, the rest of the components, if I had never sold one I could have made multiple suits with each armor type/component type (except invulnerability). I am up to only around 8 total invulnerability components found since publish. I like the low drop rate from them to be honest. It is time consuming to farm the higher end ones and thus their must be a reward for the time spent.

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My third posting, another 302 to add to the list. This will be my last as totally run out of lockdowns now to bother any more. In total I have collected 730 refinements. Have started to sell a 'few' but basically they take up way too much space to really bother with. Even with all them, I don't have 5 of the one type I needed at invul level. This system is one of the most poorly designed crafting systems I have ever seen.

My third posting, another 302 to add to the list. This will be my last as totally run out of lockdowns now to bother any more. In total I have collected 730 refinements. Have started to sell a 'few' but basically they take up way too much space to really bother with. Even with all them, I don't have 5 of the one type I needed at invul level. This system is one of the most poorly designed crafting systems I have ever seen.

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Thanks, Miss Echo. I added your figures. If anyone else posts anything here or in the other thread, I'll add your results. However, I may not reply, as my Stratics account seems to be teetering towards being banned as I don't seem to have a very good knack for posting negative feedback in a palatable manner. Take care, all.

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