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earliest human social groups were very commnal lacked any concept of private property etc obviously the earliest human social groups will give a better glimpse as to what raw "human nature" actually is, besides "human nature" includes a lot of things.

"I'll go," said Chagataev. "But what will I do there? Build socialism?"
"What else?" said the secretary.

I'm not talking about raw instinctual human nature. I'm talking about what society has evolved into: a globalised 'free' market where people and corporations compete with one another for wealth and power. If communism is enforced (and it has to be enforced, you cannot start from scratch) then what is the guarantee that greedy people, especially those conditioned to today's capitalist society, will not try to game their way into gaining more wealth? Even during the time of the soviets, government officials, though they insisted they weren't affluent, drove flashy cars and wore fancy clothes.

God, if you do not respond to this thread within the next 12 hours, I will assume you have accepted defeat. I will then parade around the forum posting banners in every board proclaiming that I beat God in a communism debate.

The 'human nature' argument is more, 'It is difficult to adapt the economic behaviour of the current human species in certain parts of the world to fit the requirements of communism', which I don't think is disputable. Human nature and communism are not contradictory, although a communist economic model would work better among species that have a reproductive social incentive to build a communal system of gathering/production, like ants.

God, if you do not respond to this thread within the next 12 hours, I will assume you have accepted defeat. I will then parade around the forum posting banners in every board proclaiming that I beat God in a communism debate.

im at the point of not caring about the particulars of communsim much anymore and thinking 'for god sake america doesnt even have a half sensible health care system, lets start by at LEAST electing democrats'. realistic shorter term goals.

"I'll go," said Chagataev. "But what will I do there? Build socialism?"
"What else?" said the secretary.