Posted:22nd Feb 2005ok, first off, I'm not making any insinuations about anything here, I'm just curious as to what the makeup is on HoP education wise. I know many of us are too young for university or have never made higher education a priority, but still there seem to be many well informed people out there, so:

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Posted:25th Feb 2005no what I mean is that in Oz you cant get HECS to do a subsequent degree that is the equivalent or lower than your previous degree. ie I cant go back and get another degree now that I've got (almost) a post grad degree.

however as I understand it in the states you guys are in that position all the time (ie no HECS). dont worry - our PM is sooo far up Bushys backside that Im sure he will want to make all courses upfront full fee paying in the next few years - and we'll all have the same discriminatory access to higher education.

Josh

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Posted:25th Feb 2005Hey Ade - I think its only if you finish your first degree. I started a science degree, was in my 3rd year, then transferred over to a B. Pharmacy. I was told that I shouldn't finish all my B. Sc subjects, because if I did I would have to pay full up front fees for my B. Pharmacy. I think you can put a degree that is higher then what you hold on HECS. For example in July I will have a B. Sc and a B. Education. I could go onto do a master, and then a PHd on HECS (or scholarship, but I couldn't do a Bachelor degree in Arts without incurring upfront fees.

Ahhh HECS - the massive debt that hangs around on my head for whats in my head - *sigh*

Kate, I suppose it depends on your discipline and Uni, but have you applied for a PhD scholarship (~ $25k tax free)?

PM if interested in agriculture/molecular/science PhD

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Posted:25th Feb 2005OK, someone please explain HECS to me. Sounds like a deferment of tuition fees that you have to repay later? Or don't have to repay? Does it include financial support for cost of living too?

In the states you pay your fees for university up front always (this can be huge at a private universities, but if you go to a state school where you are a citizen of that state, then it is really fairly reasonable). If you come from certain special circumstances (say low income family but you are a promising student), then fees can be waved. There are also loads and loads of grants and scholarships to apply for that even mediocre students have a chance of getting that will at least pay part of your tuition if not all. Finally, ALL university students are garunteed to be approved for student loans from private lenders with rates fixed just a little above the prime rate, insured by the government against default, and up to a certain amount (fairly generous amount) is interest free until half a year after you start working full time after finishing school. Even having a Ph.D. I can go back and get any degree I want and still be eligable for those loans (and not have to pay the ones I have now till later as well).

Frankly, after seeing how the german financial assistance for university students works (which is supposedly so much more egalitarian than the one in the USA), I'm really not convinced it is any better in general. The financial benifits of the German system over the American one are indeed there to a degree (enough so that it doesn't look so financially intimidating as you enter in to it as the American system does), but they are not significantly better once you take all things into account and the German one is far less flexible from what i can see. And given the tax base in each country and expected earnings, you can realistically pay off your American student loans after school faster than you can your debt to the german system if you stay in the country you were educated in (not sure about that, but is from I did a back of the envelope calcualtion based on Babajaga's school fees and debts compared to mine had been).

One advantage the german university system does have over the US one - it is far easier to go to uni if you are a single parent here than in the US - mainly because of the fact that you get financial assisntance for your child as well (which you do not have to pay back because this is more like welfare rather than a school loan) and because day care is heavily tax payer subsidized in Germany.

One huge disadvantage is that if you didn't go thru gynasium (the universty track secondary school), then you have to go to "arbitur" for a couple years before starting Uni (adding a couple years of time and debt). Also you have to place into study ciriculums via testing and placement slots here, and it can be that you waste 2 or 3 years on arbiture just to find you are not allowed to study what you want at university. That will not hapen in the states. If you want to go back to university after 10 years of working, no problem as long as you have a high school degree (no matter how old) or the GED (graduate equivalancey degree - a test you take to show that you have enough knowledge to have gotten a high school degree had you stayed in high school to the end), you go strait away to uni (or at least a community college if your grades suck and your entrance exam scores aren't high enough - the credits you earn at a community college can be applied to uni if you do well enough to transfer - no wasted time). So the american system will let you either sink or swim on your own (the way of america really), and you will get to study what you want to study.

Posted:25th Feb 2005hecs is the devils tool whereby all the ppl that went through uni for free thought hmmmmmmm how can we bend over the younger generation, to which they concluded making us pay for our education, so cos students are poor they let us defer payment until we start earning over a certain threshold at which point we have a set percentage taken from our wages. did i mention its the devils tool? it doesnt include the cost of living thats up to u to sort out

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