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Saying the Wilier has a better saddle and stem is really arbitrary, since you don't know if that saddle will work well with your butt long-term, and you'll probably have to swap stems to a different length after fit.

And Groupsets... I personally ride the "old" SRAM RED and it works fantastic and love it. Have tried ultegra and had more difficulties with it.

2011 wrote:Saying the Wilier has a better saddle and stem is really arbitrary, since you don't know if that saddle will work well with your butt long-term, and you'll probably have to swap stems to a different length after fit.

And Groupsets... I personally ride the "old" SRAM RED and it works fantastic and love it. Have tried ultegra and had more difficulties with it.

Hi, it's the Focus that has a better saddle, seatpost and stem, and by better I mean there carbon, whereas the wilier has alloy,

Can someone confirm if its the old or new SRAM as I wouldn't know where to start with that

If its a 2012 bike then it is definitely not the new version of Red. As Focus is not stocking any of there bikes with it until 2013 model year. However 1st gen Red is Awesome! I have had mine for 3 seasons. I find most people who dislike Red have never owned it and have only ridden it on a test ride on a poorly adjusted LBS bike. Just my experience.

I've owned a focus before and really didn't like it. Very heavy. Rode like a cheap frame. Paint was crap.

Go with the Willier.

Also, carbon stems aren't really something you should go out of your way to buy. Most people don't like them as they are very flexy and don't offer much in weight savings. Also I doubt it is a full carbon stem, most likely just a carbon wrap.

Long time, hard-core Shimano fan. Tried 2013 SRAM Red for the 1st time 5 weeks ago. Impressed enough to get more SRAM for another bike, this time Rival. Great stuff. When Dura-Ace 9070 is readily available I'll probably back in the Shimano camp, but I digress.

Again, 9 times out of 10, you will be changing stems for a different length to get a proper fit. BTW - MAKE SURE YOU GET A PROPER FIT!!!

Finally, the VeloNews Sept. 2011 issue had a comparison test featuring, among other bikes, a full Red, Focus Izalco. The Focus was the winner. Granted, these things need to be taken with a grain of salt, but this comparison test was very comprehensive, and, I thought, impressive.

If the Focus' geometry fits you properly (VERY IMPORTANT!!!) I would go with that bike without question.