If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

The origin of Allen's powers

A little while ago, I read a thread here "somewhere" discussing which of Allens powers came first, the Innocence or the Noah.
Wether the powers picked him for beeing who he is, or if they picked him becaue one of the powers had.

I was sitting and re-reading d.gray-man this early morning, when I came across a small frame that peaked my interest.

So, Allen was likely picked as a Noah host, becuase of his Innocence, that seems very likely.

But why Allen, of all Innocence users?
Was it because,
- he was the first and the best around?
- he's unique personallity allowing both powers to reach 100% potentially?
- he's Innocence is unique? Destroyer of time? perhaps even the heart?
- 4'th option?

It dosn't seem like we know why he picked Allen yet, but i doubt it's because he was the first and best around, theres just something special and suspecious about Allen's ability to balance both powers.

Road seems to suggest "maybe the Innocence went after Allen knowing who he is"......... wait? what? thats off... SHe may not know in which order the powers picked Allen, but am i understanding what she's saying here right...

Is she really suggesting, that Allen is unique without any powers? Knowing that he had the Innocence before the 14'ths powers, how can she say this, if the first powers Allen had was the innocence.

If the Heart user finds out the secret behind the evolution of the Akuma's, then all the Noah's plans will be for naught? Seriously? Just having the knowledge of the true plan will make the Heart win the war, without force, just the knowlede?

Somethings really really really fishy here.

Allen is suposely the destroyer of time, but does the heart even need Allen if it only needs this knowledge to win? It dosn't make Allen seem so important for a main charecter.
As earlier pointed out, it seems unlikely that Allen has to heart, so, whats going on?

Something dosn't add up here, theres a major detail we don't know yet.

How are the destroyer of time linked to the heart and the akuma's evolution?

Your thoughts?

and seriously, that's alooooot of information on just 1-2 pages.... O.O

Re: The origin of Allen's powers

Originally Posted by Cez

A little while ago, I read a thread here "somewhere" discussing which of Allens powers came first, the Innocence or the Noah.
Wether the powers picked him for beeing who he is, or if they picked him becaue one of the powers had.

I was sitting and re-reading d.gray-man this early morning, when I came across a small frame that peaked my interest.

You see Allen's Innocence beeing licked by the dog? He had it before Mana died, he also just meet Mana, and thus before the 14'th left Mana's body.

Hmm, wait a minute! We don't have any confirmation that the 14th was in Mana's body! We only know that Mana lost his mind after the 14th died, and if we refer to the Reverse 3 novel about the time when Allen and Mana met, we see that Mana was 17 years old but woke up one day to discover that he was already in middle age.

Originally Posted by Cez

So that explains that he had his innocence first, and therefore the 14'th might have picked Allen for exactly this reason, which the Earl him self also suspected here,

So, Allen was likely picked as a Noah host, becuase of his Innocence, that seems very likely.

But why Allen, of all Innocence users?
Was it because,
- he was the first and the best around?
- he's unique personallity allowing both powers to reach 100% potentially?
- he's Innocence is unique? Destroyer of time? perhaps even the heart?
- 4'th option?

About Allen's innocence, I wonder if he had it from birth, or was it implanted in him after he was born? Because at the beginning of the story, his innocence looked like someone had pressed the innocence right into his hand. Perhaps it was the doing of Apocryphos? He did say to Allen that Allen had really grown into a beautiful exorcist... If that's really the case, then there would be a reason why it had to be that particular innocence and why it had to be Allen.

The Earl also says, if you go a page back, that he knows the heart has awaken.
Combining these two, assuming both is correct, the heart won't be neither Linali or Allen, but someone else.

What is the heart? What can the heart do? How does it work? Does it sync with God's will?

I would personally find it rather lame and stupid, if the heart only was a Innocence with some sort of "drive" to keep the others going, there has to be more to it then that...

Personally, I'm leaning towards Allen possessing the Heart, so I'll be basing my thoughts on that... Regarding the part about the awakened Heart user, he might have gotten someone to erase his own memories of possessing the Heart, in order to fool both the Order and the Noahs. (Kind of something like what Light from Death Note did when he'd wanted to make L believe that he wasn't Kira. After all, to deceive one's enemies, one needs to deceive everyone around one...) And we also know that Allen doesn't have any memories of the time before he joined the circus. It might seem a bit ridiculous that Allen would be able to think of such a plan at a young age, but he might already have Apocryphos with him, who would help him out with planning and strategising?

Allen's innocence was once shattered by Tyki, but it didn't disappear, and hung around him as a protective mist. In that case, it wasn't actually "destroyed". In fact, it seems to be quite resistant to Tyki's attempt to destroy it.

Like what was mentioned (somewhere), perhaps the Heart gets stronger as more and more of the innocence fragments are joined together. I wonder if the Heart would be capable of reviving the fragments which were shattered by the Noahs? Otherwise, the Heart would be significantly weaker than when the innocence fought against the Earl 7000 years ago.

Hmm... This makes me wonder if Allen is the descendant of the person who fought against the Earl? It would make sense for both the innocence and the Noah genes to pick him...

If the Heart user finds out the secret behind the evolution of the Akuma's, then all the Noah's plans will be for naught? Seriously? Just having the knowledge of the true plan will make the Heart win the war, without force, just the knowlede?

Somethings really really really fishy here.

Allen is suposely the destroyer of time, but does the heart even need Allen if it only needs this knowledge to win? It dosn't make Allen seem so important for a main charecter.
As earlier pointed out, it seems unlikely that Allen has to heart, so, whats going on?

Something dosn't add up here, theres a major detail we don't know yet.

How are the destroyer of time linked to the heart and the akuma's evolution?

Your thoughts?

and seriously, that's alooooot of information on just 1-2 pages.... O.O

Hmm. The Heart would need Allen if only for the fact that Allen is the host for the 14th, which means that there is a possibility that Allen would know about the true reason behind the akuma's evolution. Well, that is said assuming that Allen doesn't possess the Heart. Either way, we know that the Noahs have been told to protect the 14th from the Heart with all their lives. And thus, we know that the 14th would definitely seek out the Heart once he is awakened. (Okay, I suddenly lost my train of thought here, so I'll have to end this post here without continuing with my previous sentence...)

Looks like I made my post much longer than it should have been with all those quotes. Oops. ><

Re: The origin of Allen's powers

Originally Posted by addenza

Hmm, wait a minute! We don't have any confirmation that the 14th was in Mana's body! We only know that Mana lost his mind after the 14th died, and if we refer to the Reverse 3 novel about the time when Allen and Mana met, we see that Mana was 17 years old but woke up one day to discover that he was already in middle age.

I belive there is a fair chance that Mana still has the 14'th with him upon meeting Allen, afterall, how would the 14'th find Allen unless he was stalking Mana after leaving him? Would sound weird if he was stalking O.o well it could be a posibility lol..

and Mana taught Allen the music notes, I don't think he did that without the 14'th..

Also it was suggested by Cross somewhere, that the Noah's need to pick a host quickly (by the way to spoak, it sounded like that) or it would have consequences...
I wonder if it damages the memory if they don't switch quickly? Like have to awaken from scratch again..

Need to run out of da house, so can't reply more right now, but you basically disagree with the whole thing lol but that's the good part about discussions <3

Re: The origin of Allen's powers

Originally Posted by Cez

I belive there is a fair chance that Mana still has the 14'th with him upon meeting Allen, afterall, how would the 14'th find Allen unless he was stalking Mana after leaving him? Would sound weird if he was stalking O.o well it could be a posibility lol..

I think Cross was the one doing the stalking. LOL.

But anyway, I wonder if the 14th awakened in Allen due to the Noah genes in him or that the 14th had implanted his own memories into Allen? It will make a huge difference if the method is different. Oh wait, we know that the 14th had died some 30 years before Cross found Allen, who was probably around 10 years old at the time? If the memories were implanted, then I suppose Mana might have gotten the memories first before passing it to Allen. But if the memories were inherited by the genes, perhaps Allen was drawn to Mana after they'd first met at the circus and just stayed together after that...

Originally Posted by Cez

and Mana taught Allen the music notes, I don't think he did that without the 14'th..

Hmm, actually, that's possible too... But Allen had said that that was a language that the two of them had come up with together, so it makes me wonder who had come up with the words between the two of them. Or maybe, Mana's brother had taught Mana the language?

Originally Posted by Cez

Also it was suggested by Cross somewhere, that the Noah's need to pick a host quickly (by the way to spoak, it sounded like that) or it would have consequences...
I wonder if it damages the memory if they don't switch quickly? Like have to awaken from scratch again..

I get the feeling that Cross was only talking about the 14th when he said about the Noah's need to pick a host quickly... Although Wisely had said that all of them (other than the Earl and Road) had forgotten about the events regarding the 14th, that was because the 14th had managed to damage their Noah memories in the fight sufficiently. And that was why they took so long to return. For the 14th's case, he probably needed to return quickly so that he could have a better chance at thwarting the Earl's plans without the other Noahs.

Originally Posted by Cez

Need to run out of da house, so can't reply more right now, but you basically disagree with the whole thing lol but that's the good part about discussions <3

XD Yeah, I agree with you! Looks like we're going to have some fun discussing this! ^^

Re: The origin of Allen's powers

Originally Posted by Cez

I belive there is a fair chance that Mana still has the 14'th with him upon meeting Allen, afterall, how would the 14'th find Allen unless he was stalking Mana after leaving him? Would sound weird if he was stalking O.o well it could be a posibility lol..

I don't think it works like that. Nea's not a ghost so he doesn't stalk people. If Nea was like any other Noah, he would reincarnate through a compatible gene pool. Yet, Nea is not like the other Noah. We still know very little of his past, what happened to his body after he died, and so forth. So, that makes his connection to Allen still a mystery in a way. Allen and Mana just happened to meet by chance at the circus. Allen was at the circus long before Mana showed up.

Quote:

and Mana taught Allen the music notes, I don't think he did that without the 14'th..

If Mana taught Allen the music notes, he would have also taught Allen how to play the piano. The "14th's song" belongs to Allen. Even though Mana had a messed up mind, he still remembered very tiny pieces of his time with Nea. I'm pretty sure it would be Nea, who taught Mana the song as it's a magic spell (if Nea was that open towards his brother)l. If that truly happened, Mana and Allen would be using their memories to "make up" the song in the snow. In other words, Mana was unconsciously relying on his old memories to fill in the song lyrics. It could be the same for Allen since, technically, Nea's memories are his own as well.

Quote:

that the Noah's need to pick a host quickly, it sounded like that) or it would have consequences.

I wonder if it damages the memory if they don't switch quickly? Like have to awaken from scratch again..

addenza answered this nicely so I probably don't have to add much to this. Nea damaged eveyone's memories, although, Road and Wisely are an exception. Unlike the other Noahs, Nea really took his time to come back but not inside the body of a teenager or an adult. Perhaps, a consequence for reincarnating so late is to reincarnate through natural birth? The memories would then be easier to unlock like Allen's attachment to Mana and the 14th's song. And as Allen grew older, the memories would become stronger. But the question of the Innocence still remains. We're initially believed that he was born with it but that would be interesting if the Apo guy placed the Innocence into Allen's hand.