The Early Signs of Public Unrest and Social Chaos?

The only people that profit in civil unrest is the rich and power, because they sell the idiot's causing the unrest the tools to destruction. The
powers that be orchestrate and perpetuate Civil Wars, look to the past.

I would like to see a different type of Civil War this time one of compassion and wisdom.

This would be my wish.

It can be different this time awareness is the start. Emotion coupled with idiotic propaganda must be not a catalyst this time around.

its all about belief,peoples beliefs need to change.peoples mind dictate how they act thus how the world is shaped,therefore the only way to change
the world for the better is to change those beliefs that cause the world to be a bad place.

at the moment there is a huge gulf between those with and without power,they seem to resent each other and work against the other for various
reasons.

presently many of the elites seem to have little empathy or understanding for those in less privilaged positions of power and exploit them for thier
own ends,they must be reconnected to care and uphold thier positions with dignity and honor for the betterment of all,everyone including them will
benifit.

on the other hand ,many of those not in positions of power wether intellectual,political,economic etc are apathetic and expect such elites to do
everything for them,they expect the government,local,federal or national to just about everything.that has to change,the people need to start taking
responsibility for the communities they live in,they need to start empowering and educating themselves so they can no longer be exploited.many here
on ATS are doing what the masses should be doing,we are thinking for them,doing that which for whatever reason they dont bother to do.If people
bothered to do the research on the loans they took out on thier homes and the economic situation they would never be in this situation,they should of
consdering how vital such a loan is, but they didnt.

i see it as 50/50,the masses have allowed this situation to develop yet the elites have explioted the situation to the detriment of all but a few.

The wisdom of the indigenous allowed them to avoid our way of life. They are not tempted by materialistic values and possessions, when they are
offered something of value to us such as a Refrigerator, they decline. When they are offered any kind of financial support or charity, they decline.
They live their lives so peacefully and simple.

War is the opposite of compassion, and usually the absence of wisdom. You might as well wish for dry water, or cold heat.

My wish is for compassion and wisdom as well, but not as a war. My wish is rather for a lack of need for war. I fear that this wish is in vain as long
as humanity forgets what war is. And apparently, we have forgotten.

The only way we will ever remove the effects of elitism from society is by accepting its existence and by accepting our differences. We will never,
ever remove elitism. One person, one group will always have what others want. It gives us something to strive for. Differences between tribes,
groups within tribes and individuals within groups will always exist. Discrimination based on differences is a natural product of evolution and will
probably always exist while ever survival and selection of the fittest determines mate selection. We should accept it and work with it. To work
together and remove the effects of elitism we need not put our differences to one side but put them together and work with them.

We can even-up the playing field but we need to change the game's rules.

We can makes this planet better but we have to want it. Really want it. Whether we are in Africa, China, America, Europe, Australia. We can turn
the tables by hitting the financial institution we call economy. I don't think any one wants to be without food, clothing, shelter, warmth and
money. Only the first four items are essential. The elite know this and ensure that we need the fifth item (money) to get them. They ensure most of
us have just enough money to cover our purchasing of those first four. This is a global consumer driven guilt society.

The best way to counter the elite is by using their game pieces against them. I suggest we use organised, peaceful non-co-operation. For a few days
each week (maybe longer) we should stop buying goods (no petrol, no diesel, no electricity, no gas, no gadgets, no public transport, no visiting
government institutions, no phone calls). If it means we can't get into work then it means we can't get into work - they can't sack us all, they
need us more than we need them. It will not take long for large corporations to push government. It will not take long for government and business
to ask us "What do you want?"

We can stop many of the wars that are happening.

We can stop the cost of food and utilities from getting higher.

We can stop education from being dumbed down.

We can make government and other institutions of public control and directorship serve the people.

By accepting our differences and working with them we can begin to embarrass and remove those who are killing, ruining and overly profiting from us by
encouraging war, rivalry and terrorism. We may not solve all human conflicts but we can lessen them in both number and magnitude.

Sometimes, violence can solve things but violence on a large scale only ever creates a winner and a loser. Violent civil unrest is not a solution.
National and global non-cooperation could be a solution. Every human being shares the same history - the human experience - regardless of ethnicity
and religion. Every human has the same basic needs, emotions and desires. Our cultures may differ but at heart, as different as we are in other
respects, we are not very different from one and other. Don't revolt with violence, revolt with civility and a kinship with fellow men.

If everybody stopped paying taxes to fund their existance things may change. The IRS can only bust so many people. Solar Power, Recycling, leave the
packaging at the supermarket and use your own containers and bags, bio fuel, home grown veggies and such. The man really needs it stuck to him now
more than ever. (In australia too)

If Bush tried to order the troops to institute martial law...I think the troops would just turn the guns on him instead. The man has no support left!

It's a softly, softly approach sometimes called the salami effect - you cut a slice at a time and before they know it you have them. It's the
process used to take the U.K and other EU nations into the European Superstate. However in this case, it involves getting people (enforcers) used to
targeting others. You start them off by getting them to question the integrity of the intended target (this case, general populace), then you get
them to detain them, then you get them to maim/hurt them etc (method may vary). That is to say, you gradually wear away objection.

Originally posted by an3rkist
Food is not the only necessity of people in this nation. Some of us care more about freedom than we do about food. We may be a minority, but we are
a very adamant and persistent minority. And if what you're saying is true, perhaps we need to jump the gun on this revolution and make it happen
before things get that bad. Additionally, when it's that bad revolution will probably more violent than it could be if we did it now.
[edit on 3/3/08 by an3rkist]

People in the US would not know what the lack of freedom is if it bit them in the ass. The reason is they have nothing to really compare it to for
what we view as a lack of freedom or infringement on our freedom most of the rest of the world would love to have 1/2 of what we got.

Freedom is really just a perspective for pure freedom would be total chaos, so what we have is a level of freedom, and what you or I and everyone else
view as the right amount is different and that is why it takes something along the lines of survival to cause the need for change.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
People in the US would not know what the lack of freedom is if it bit them in the ass. The reason is they have nothing to really compare it to for
what we view as a lack of freedom or infringement on our freedom most of the rest of the world would love to have 1/2 of what we got.

I don't think it wise to base what we should be thankful for on what other people have/don't have. If you're content to have the relative amount
of freedom that we do then that's fine. It's been said, and I believe that, we deserve what we tolerate. I, for one, do not tolerate the lack of
freedom we have simply because others have less. I compare our current freedom to what our forefathers intended us to have, and to what the
Constitution says we should have. Based on that, I'd say we're in a pretty bad way.

Freedom is really just a perspective for pure freedom would be total chaos, so what we have is a level of freedom, and what you or I and
everyone else view as the right amount is different and that is why it takes something along the lines of survival to cause the need for
change.

My definition of freedom is the same as Thomas Jefferson's: "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will, within limits drawn
around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so
when it violates the rights of the individual." Our perception of freedom may be relative, but true freedom, in my opinion, is just what Thomas
Jefferson said it is. Anyone who does not have that, needs to work toward getting it.

Originally posted by an3rkist
My definition of freedom is the same as Thomas Jefferson's: "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will, within limits drawn
around us by the equal rights of others.

Has America ever really reach this state of utopia? Also equal rights is a two-way sword for the millionaire employer pays no more in taxes than his
lowest worker, we remove laws and actions get like reactions, and this would mean a person who kills is killed etc.

I'm not sure any of us are ready for this perfect freedom for the simple reason we are not perfect, and so we cannot handle it correctly.

Great thread!
I myspace searched "Social youth chaos" about 330 this afternoon and was then called away, there were 9 hits. I didn't have time to get to them.
Tonight when I searched there was only 1 hit. Kind of strange in that usualy when things hit the new they are quoted and used more often. I would
have thought that the hits would have gone way up.

Good thread, Gools! I've been studying the politics of economic decline for a while
now, and I think you'll find that my own thread backs up everything being talked about here. As our economy fails, we will see more and more
radicalization that will manifest as homegrown terro cells. Too many Federal
officials will be tempted to take advantage of our national weakness.

I will agree that the rest of the USA outside the "west" seems to be all going bonkers. Yankees or not, things are getting weird. I think it has
much too do with the haves and have nots. The only problem is the haves if backed into a corner will whip out a nasty disease or something and kill us
middle class and poor folk off.....then "import" more mexicans too clean the pools and 8000 sq foot houses...ELF is now going to get hunted like Al
Queda, with the FBI and ATF playing soldier. At any rate I am not leaving TX for anything. at this point things are Ok here. thank god

an3rkist........................great post man! I had to print that one. You have a hell of a gift my friend

I hesitate to say its a sign of a gathering storm without a statistical analysis, but in general I can definately agree that things are looking worse
and normal people that I know are starting to get scared. Fear makes bad things happen.

Rumor has it that union carpenters in the Inland Empire have basically been told by their hall that if they want to work, they'd best get the hell
out of their home towns- Las Vegas and Canada are the popular destinations for the severely under-worked right now apparently (including my brother,
who is rapidly approaching one year out of work, not counting a few bits of piece work and a few week-long stints he picked up when small projects
were hitting snags). Frankly if this goes on much longer, I suspect that my brother is going to bid farewell to his trade (which pays 30 bucks an hour
and boo-koo overtime) and settle for 12k a year and regular meals in the army.

Aged and wise men who I respect and who I know are hard to shake up are beginning to talk very frankly about positioning themselves to endure a
depression.
One of the calmest people I know decided to triple his gun collection and buy a safe for them, so that he could safely keep them downstairs without
trigger locks for quick access. He hasn't outright stated his intentions in doing so, but although he hasn't mentioned it, I don't believe the
pieces he added were any coincidence either. He has 3 handguns, 3 shotguns, 3 rifles, and 3 people in his home. He even appears to have chosen 1 gun
of each type specifically to be simple to use and wield for his wife, who doesn't really care for guns (.22 revolver, semi-auto .22 carbine, and .410
bore breechloaded shotgun)

I wouldn't say that anyone is fighting mad our scared senseless, but it seems to be in the back of a lot of people's minds now that all good things
must come to an end.
If I might quote Rancid, "the endin' isn't here, but it's comin' real soon. The feelin' isn't fear, it's just tellin' you to move."

Twenty years ago I would have been taking up arms right beside you or covering your six but now I'd rather just lay low and try not to draw too much
attention to myself.

do they depend on you, so that you believe must remain alive at any cost?

the issue is, that to most people (if not all), a young man fighting for anything will come off as a bandit, who's just trying to
illegitimately exceed his natural/godgiven allottement of life(tm).

(it should be noted that i do not agree with such views, i'm just talking about them)

ie. that they're using ethic considerations and ideology as a pretext for aggrandizement. whether there's some truth in that or not, it works very
well for the elites, because people simply lose their voice, while those with better standing believe it ain't their business...

under these circumstances, fragmentation of scoiety becomes inveitable, because if you're laid back, you're still paying taxes, so the war machine
keeps going, at home and abraod - and they still vote republican, again, whether they like it or not. (diebold anyone?)

sentimental views cannot change the facts and chances are that you cannot truely love your enemy, except in a silly religious context. enemy in this
case meaning 'acting against your vital interest', whether on purpose or not!

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Frankly if this goes on much longer, I suspect that my brother is going to bid farewell to his trade (which pays 30 bucks an hour and boo-koo
overtime) and settle for 12k a year and regular meals in the army.

Hmmm...
Perhaps what I'm about to say is already a widely regarded suspicion, but this sentence rang tiny alarm bells for me.

This economic crunch, this mass immigration, this shortage of work (that pays enough to keep the roof above your head)... couldn't it all be a
calculated method by the powers-that-be to herd people into their barracks? After all, as far as I'm aware, the military is ALWAYS recruiting and
ALWAYS wanting. Join the army and you don't have to worry about losing your home - you have a new home and a new security. If the PTB are preparing
for some large scale war (perhaps even WW3), then short of conscription, this concocted economic situation is the most effective way of building a
military force big enough to sustain an age-long war.

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