If it were to have been done I think Sasha would've done it. It really seems impossible, unless done as a pairs spin like M/D or I/Z. Maybe Lipnitskaya will surprise us, but honestly it seems kind of the uber flexibility required for that spin would be kind of ugly IMO.

I would have thought that extreme flexibility would be needed to accomplish this. If the leg weren't totally vertical it would be almost impossible to do the spin with speed. Maybe Julia Lipnitskaya could try it.

I think one could be done by going from a biellmann positon to the charlotte positon. Mostly, a matter of lowering the head toward the ice. Not to say it wouldn't be extremely difficult. I think Alissa would be a good candidate to try it.

The question is if the position allows for applying what needs to be applied for a figure skating spin. Even rhythmic gymnasts do only a couple of turns in such a position. And since a Charlotte usually means that your head is against you leg and your hands are holding on to it, the leg would have be vertical in order for it to work because without arms and head you don't have any control over anything. It may be possible but I doubt it's worth the risk.

From a physics standpoint, centrifugal force would make it extremely difficult if not impossible to maintain the vertical position while rotating that fast. In rhythmic gymnastics, they do the spin but their leg is not completely vertical and the spin only rotates once or twice, much slower than a figure skating spin.

At the very least, Moskvina's pairs teams (and others) have done a Charlotte-like position by the lady in pairs combination spins in the late 90s, early 2000s. Ina/Zimmerman, Elena/Anton, Kazakova/Dimitriev, etc.

Perhaps someone can dig up a video -- or I can this weekend.

A Charlotte spin for a singles skater would have to happen much like an illusion spin -- without the up/down movement of the illusion... or the ever-hated "A-Frame" or "butt spin", but with the free leg extended way up. I imagine it's possible, but with a low free leg. Given the force and physics of spins, I cannot imagine getting the leg up much higher than a traditional camel spin -- regardless of how flexible a skater is. There's a reason you don't see a traditional camel spin (with no help of a hand) with an extremely high free leg performed by super flexible skaters.

i'm having trouble even envisioning it.
michelle often exited her charlotte spirals with a little spin/change of edge, but that's nothing like what you guys are describing which is a centered spin

btw before the 90's, what did the charlotte even look like? i know it was done by charlotte oenschalgel and sonja henie but from watching clips of them i can't imagine they actually did the vertical position michelle, sasha did...was the leg barely above hip level or what? i've never been able to find a picture or video of the original charlotte move

At the very least, Moskvina's pairs teams (and others) have done a Charlotte-like position by the lady in pairs combination spins in the late 90s, early 2000s. Ina/Zimmerman, Elena/Anton, Kazakova/Dimitriev, etc. Perhaps someone can dig up a video -- or I can this weekend.

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Elena-Anton never did the Natalia spin (the one you are referring to), and although a Canadian pair had performed it before M&D, they were the first to make it popular. K&D naturally did it, since Artur was the partner and Tamara the coach. More recently a few younger pairs have done it, but no one did it better than M&D.

i'm having trouble even envisioning it.
michelle often exited her charlotte spirals with a little spin/change of edge, but that's nothing like what you guys are describing which is a centered spin

btw before the 90's, what did the charlotte even look like? i know it was done by charlotte oenschalgel and sonja henie but from watching clips of them i can't imagine they actually did the vertical position michelle, sasha did...was the leg barely above hip level or what? i've never been able to find a picture or video of the original charlotte move

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I could swear I've seen a photo in some figure skating book of Charlotte performing her move-but I might be confusing her with Henie. It's been years since I've seen it.

Henie performed it bending way down but not really much of a split:Sonja Henie

wow this is VERY impressive. her leg is very close to a split, and what's crazy is that there's NO hand assist and yet she's actually on an edge and doing a true spiral whereas michelle and sasha often did it on the flat. nowadays when skaters do charlottes on an edge it's usually as a transition from an arabesque which is easier..but here she has absolutely no hand assist and yet has amazing control on the charlotte without having to ease into it from another position

one thing i find interesting about skating is that no matter how many technical/athletic advancements are made in the sport, you can always find individual elements/moves that the "older" skaters did well or even better. a lot of modern skaters lack the edge control of older skaters

BELITA----I am stunned. Thanks for sharing. Orbitz. The title "Pavlova of the ice " which was given to Henie seems more appropriate for Belita. They both brought something unique and wonderful to the ice: Henie, speed, energy, athleticism; Belita, great refinement and grace.
Do you know if anyone ever penned a biography of Belita?

Wikipedia has a lot of nice things to say about Belita-she skated for Great Britain at the 1936 Olympics aged only 12! She placed 16th-I'm guessing those darn compulsory figures and her youth had something to do with her final placement because she was clearly an excellent skater with quite unique skills for the day:

Born at Nether Wallop, Hampshire, she skated (as Belita Jepson-Turner) for Great Britain in the 1936 Winter Olympics where she was placed 16th in the Ladies' singles competition, then her career turned towards Hollywood. She had classical Russian ballet training which carried over into her skating, and she was considered far superior to others skating at that time. As a young ballerina she was partner to Anton Dolin, appearing with the Dolin-Markova Ballet.

Classical Russian ballet training-no wonder! Her Charlotte is the best I've seen of her contemporaries!

Idk I'm kinda glad they started jr worlds and have been shying away from the baby ballerina syndrome. The Brits had sent two 11 year olds to the previous olys (youngest olympians ever) and had good results (7& 8) so I guess they though it was worth a try. Belita as 14th in figures and 18th in fs.

Anyone know why Megan Taylor wasn't at the games? She was clearly a top skater at the time, taking bronze at euros a few wweeks earlier and then silver at worlds just a few weeks later.

At the very least, Moskvina's pairs teams (and others) have done a Charlotte-like position by the lady in pairs combination spins in the late 90s, early 2000s. Ina/Zimmerman, Elena/Anton, Kazakova/Dimitriev, etc.

Idk I'm kinda glad they started jr worlds and have been shying away from the baby ballerina syndrome. The Brits had sent two 11 year olds to the previous olys (youngest olympians ever) and had good results (7& 8) so I guess they though it was worth a try. Belita as 14th in figures and 18th in fs.

Anyone know why Megan Taylor wasn't at the games? She was clearly a top skater at the time, taking bronze at euros a few wweeks earlier and then silver at worlds just a few weeks later.

thank you, I was looking for this
because I knew this was performed before
the charlotte like spin for the ladies pair

I am happy Davankova/Deputat are making this known again
and making it their signature pairs spin

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She has a bit more flexibility in this version (or at least a higher leg extension) than did Natalia Mishkutenok,
and if they could maintain their rotation speed all the way through it would be perfect!!

She has a bit more flexibility in this version (or at least a higher leg extension) than did Natalia Mishkutenok,
and if they could maintain their rotation speed all the way through it would be perfect!!

I think so, yes.... at least according to wikipedia ( it's called "Natasha's spin in this article, so I'm a little too):

"One hallmark of Mishkutenok and Dmitriev's style was their creative spins, especially one in which Mishkutenok would do a split and point her head down, with an arm around Dmitriev's calf so that they were both vertical and aligned; this signature move, called "Natasha's spin" was incorporated into virtually every one of their programs."