I have been a pally tank for some time now and never used to have any issues with AOE packs; when charging into a bunch of mobs with a fellow tank I would get my fair share of mobs on me and visa-versa. However recently I have noticed that pally aoe threat compared to other tanks isn't what it used to be.... In fact I find it terrible! Like any good raiding tank I reforge out of hit/expertise so I know against our resident bear tank who gains from having these stats I stand little chance of gaining much on him however I always used to have the upper-hand against warrior tanks but this is no longer the case... I never used to have to single target or taunt off them to gain agro alas now I do.

Did I miss something? Were they buffed or us nerfed? Has anyone else experienced this? Yes I know loosing agro to a tank isn't that bad a thing but it means more work for healers having one tank take all the damage and makes me feel like a spare part.

The only thing I can think of is the threat change from 3xDPS to 5xDPS. That presumably means that it is harder to get threat off a tank who already has it (as their vengance will boost their dps above yours).

I believe it came about after warriors received there deep wounds changes. The general threat buff effects all tanks so none should have come out of that better off than another...? I'm sure my experience pre-dates that anyway.

Do you find that in an aoe pack, if you didn't get in first you stand little chance of peeling any off unless you start using single target dps/abilities or taunting?

Threat buff shouldn't cause a disparity, but it's worth a quick bug check: If you haven't recast RF since the hotfix it still gives 300% threat. This is more common than you might expect since RF has no duration and persists through death, so doesn't need refreshing regularly.

Dantriges wrote:Seems the same for me. DKs at least seem to generate a lot of AoE threat quite fast.

Compared to what?I dont play a warrior at 85, but they seem really strong at the burst aoe threat.Paladin aoe threat is both faceroll easy (and no not refering to consecration as its useless)I cant comment on druids.But DKs? I really cant say i consider them even close to as "good" aoe threat compared to paladin/warrior. The "only" great thing with them is that they can choose where to drop DnD, and its decent.

Treck wrote:But DKs? I really cant say i consider them even close to as "good" aoe threat compared to paladin/warrior. The "only" great thing with them is that they can choose where to drop DnD, and its decent.

I'm not saying I play a DK at a very high level, but blood boil is retardedly easy aoe threat, even without diseases applied.

Well, you can "easily" pick stuff up a bit better with DK than paladin, but they dont stick to you as good on DK compared to paladin, in my experience atleast.BB does less damage than Hammer, but yeh you can use 2 in a row, while you have to wait a GCD as paladin before using it again.But thats not the only thing.Its a lot more frustrating as a DK since you wanna get the diseases up anyway.So if you wanna keep threat, you need to pop DnD, 2x BB, then start getting diseases up (unless outbreak is available, and its usually not for me when running heroics)Then you "want" to be using your DS to help your healer, or use heartstrike to increase threat on main target cuz while doing all this, most of the threat on your main target is autohits.

Now, with the 500% threat increase, it should still stick on you i guess.But you just really dont have any of these issues as the other tanks.

Actually I've found consecration to still be very useful to pick up much needed initial aggro at the beginning of pulling multiple mobs, it's especially useful in ZA when you are pulling the lynx's. Combine this with using Inquisition whenever you can and you should have a lot of aoe threat. Of course you do things differently when facing only one or two mobs

Oh well forgot to mention that I let the others go first usually. That´s probably one of the main reasons.

I believe this is the reason. my tank partner is a warrior too. and when I go first he doesn't stand a chance, Inquisition up, optionally wings too and then aoe the fu** out of the mobs (I even got an aoe 2nd tanking specc to easy up aoe tanking, for trashpacks, 5man instances and bosses like Lord rhyo ...)

the warrior can't keep up, even when he taunts, the mobs only stay on him as long as the taunt debuff is active and then instantly comes back to me.

the same happens when I let him go first.

he got more Exp/hit as I got but we don't even notice this. the only reason why we see this phenomena is because of vengeance stacking up with the tank who goes first, the one that goes second doesn't have any vengeance and so doesn't stand a chance.

you got 2 possibilities here. The tank that goes first checks his omen/skada-threat and stops damaging the mobs until you got your share of mobs and threat, or you taunt them to run outside of his range.

Dantriges wrote:Oh well forgot to mention that I let the others go first usually. That´s probably one of the main reasons.

vengeance + 500% threat modifier being the culprit does seem very likely to me in this case.

And as someone that has tanking experience both as paladin and dk: paladin aoe threat is much, much easier to apply and keep up. blood boil only really works well if you start out with your deseases. I've seen mobs running away from me after I put down D&D and used BB 4 times. That's not happening when you get even 1 or 2 hammers to hit.

Schroom wrote:

Oh well forgot to mention that I let the others go first usually. That´s probably one of the main reasons.

I believe this is the reason. my tank partner is a warrior too. and when I go first he doesn't stand a chance, Inquisition up, optionally wings too and then aoe the fu** out of the mobs (I even got an aoe 2nd tanking specc to easy up aoe tanking, for trashpacks, 5man instances and bosses like Lord rhyo ...)

the warrior can't keep up, even when he taunts, the mobs only stay on him as long as the taunt debuff is active and then instantly comes back to me.

the same happens when I let him go first.

he got more Exp/hit as I got but we don't even notice this. the only reason why we see this phenomena is because of vengeance stacking up with the tank who goes first, the one that goes second doesn't have any vengeance and so doesn't stand a chance.

you got 2 possibilities here. The tank that goes first checks his omen/skada-threat and stops damaging the mobs until you got your share of mobs and threat, or you taunt them to run outside of his range.

Dantriges wrote:Seems the same for me. DKs at least seem to generate a lot of AoE threat quite fast.

Sometimes. If they want fast AoE threat they can open with 2 Blood Boils, plus one more for every death rune they have up. After that, though, there's a bit of a slump before they get rolling again.

Applying diseases, spreading them around with Pestilence and then running a rotation with Blood Boil in it is more efficient, and produces excellent AoE threat - but it won't have you saying "wow, he really locked those down fast". In fact, I'd almost never attempt that method in a PuG because it takes too long to ramp up.