King (x1): If detained, may privately choose any other player to trade roles with; new role will be publicly revealed, and may then use the traded power immediately.

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The Fairy Catmother wrote:For the record, I just asked Ryvvn for clarification on the King- not sure if you realized this, but if the King is detained and chooses one of us to trade with, since he privately chooses a player to trade with, they could then come right back with "I guess that FCM/Zark is a King" and eject us from the game. So the King is if particular danger to us. That's not helpful to point out, because we have no idea who they are. But Ryvvn suggested I share that with you.

I hate to ask, but which role is meant as "new" in the King example?

Read one way, FCM is correct. Is the revealed role that of the adopted one? I.E., if he targets one of us guards, he is revealed as now being a guard? I read this the exact opposite way, that whoever he traded with was announced as King.

Thanks,

7z7

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

Sorry, the intended effect of the King privately making his selection is that the player traded with will not be known as having been traded with (until and only if that player is detained post trade); so, that player's former role becomes the King's "new" role, that new role is publicly revealed (since the King is still being detained), and the now former King may use that new role's power.

In FCM's scenario:King Omega is detained and chooses to swap with Okaros whom was a Guard. Omega is now revealed to be a Guard and may use the Guard's detained ability of guessing another player. As it currently stands, Omega could then select Okaros and guess him as King, since that's technically not revealed anymore; seems a bit unfair, maybe, but I'd view it more as the King either getting luck of the draw (if he didn't know Okaros was originally a guard) or just choosing to guarantee himself one extra day by forgoing swapping for another role (like the Princess) and taking the easy save.

I really appreciate how responsive you've been to these questions. We have had a lot of them and you've been patient with that.

The king role risk as you indicate is based upon who he chooses. He could do it as a known quantity or blind. Our risk is if he targets us, but also if he were to target a priest and gain seer power.

I think there is a balance concern that the former king can target a role/player known to him, but... if I had the king role out of the gate I'd want to keep it as written.

More in a bit,

7z7

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

I was trying to keep the roles as close to their card game versions as made sense, but which would work in a wolf game environment, and which make a thematic sense. As a narrative context game designer, I place more emphasis on the thematic connections than the mechanics or balance (see All or One). So, here, it makes sense that the King would have the authority to take any other's role and choose who his crown is passed on to.

That said, if I were to ever run this style again, there are certainly adjustments I would make to each role now that I've been able to see the game in action.

I momentarily forgot that we have a couple of players whose roles have been revealed - rekard the Princess, stdio the Prince. If I were a human King, I would certainly consider trading with rekard. It keeps more humans alive one more day, and still maintains a human Alpha in the game. If the king does get detained and decides to take their chances, chances are higher that they would swap with someone who is not one of us.

Ryvvn, another question: If King Omega swaps with Princess Iron Clad Burrito, is Omega's New role and faction revealed that night?

If King swaps with Princess, all Princess powers trigger as soon as I'm able to process the switch happened (since it's a player selected / any time of day power); once processed, by nature of the Princess, all current player votes that are not her would be voided, and I would publicly reveal the new Princess' faction at the same time I revealed her role.

I understand. I fear we may be the two lead bandwagons though, as my logical reasoning would be to either vote you back or try to persuade you elsewhere by referring to day 1 and saying neither rekard or I are viable converts given we were the lead bandwagons. Alpha wolf must therefore be on one of us, which includes you.

My typical Human response would enter into a flavortext conversation with you, taking quotes out of order, out of context, and basically making an ass of myself.

Unfortunately the logical outcome of that is to vote for you, but I'm changing the subject. I suspect I can pivot elsewhere, but agree it would look odd for you to not vote me. At this point.

Stream of consciousness - sorry, tied up with the kids and work stuff. Hey can we 48 hour is legitimate busy zark.

More in a bit,

7z7

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

Last edited by 7-zark-7 on 09 Apr 2017, 12:59:26, edited 1 time in total.

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

We may be able to leverage our unconventional maul strategy as a sign of a new player by twisting some of hellhearts last post.

But we can't do that if he's still around.

More in a bit,

7z7

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

Just came here to say something along those same lines. Also, I fear Hellheart may be right that our last maul choice was a mistake...I hope we can continue to stay off the chopping block. He's certainly the right choice tonight.

Stdio needs to be next though. Fear of him ejecting Rekard means we are more likely lynch candidates than him.

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

One justification for hellheart over stdio is we know Stdio's role. Hellheart and Chris may be king or handmaiden.

Hoping we can lynch Chris rather than maul. I don't think we could lynch hellheart unless we can somehow leverage "helpful wolf".

Nervous we don't have more traffic in thread at this point.

Big worry is endgame:

FCM / Zark / Stdio / Rekard ends with one of us detained & no "unknown" roles to guess/guard from. We aren't that far from that point & Im wondering if tonight should be stdio as priority as a result.

Edit. Duh, that's parity. Our concern is earlier.

Thoughts?

7z7

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

Check for effects which alter a currently detained player being ejected

(e.g. guard, baron, prince, king, countess, or princess)

Process returning player (if exists)

Process ejected player (dead)

Check for effects which alter the vote winner moving to detention

(e.g. handmaid)

Process detained player (not dead yet)

Check for effects which alter the viability of the maul

(e.g. handmaid, princess, or if target currently detained)

Process the mauled player (dead)

Day/Night open

Reveal the faction (and role if unrevealed) of the ejected

Reveal the role card of the currently detained

Reveal the faction (only) of the mauled

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

Chriswolf and hellheart are the only non-revealed roles, therefore the only ones available to us in our capacity as guards, correct?

I have a feeling we need to maul Stdio instead of Hellheart

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

Just realized that blindsniper has not put out a guess using his guard power. The good thing is, we can't be hit with his power. If his guess is correct, we have one more known role out of the game, and people might be up for lynching him again. If he guesses incorrectly, we know one more thing to NOT guess if we go up for the lynch.

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros