I see **** just got in the razor steel guyto in 240 size.It is a plain looking knife with alot of good features esp. for a production Kit. where you may not want a fancy blade,just a good all day cutter.:hungry3:

labor of love

07-05-2012, 11:24 PM

the handle looks kinda lame.

mhlee

07-05-2012, 11:24 PM

How do you know it's a good cutter? :eyebrow:

James

07-05-2012, 11:28 PM

How do you know it's a good cutter? :eyebrow:

+1; profile looks a bit weird to me...it's like the masamoto KS but more suji like

Eamon Burke

07-05-2012, 11:57 PM

The handle is not fancy, but it's a big upgrade over the old handle, which was just two slabs of black riveted to a blade. I am not sure you could really do a better handle without upping the price.

I would say it's where you should go if you want a knife with really good steel under $100. As far as being a good cutter, I'd say the Chef's/Gyuto that deserves that title, in order of price, is probably the Suisin Inox Western Series--lowest priced knife with a really proper grind and taper(and an integral bolster to boot!). The grind on the Artifex is alright, nothing to write home about, and profile and overall thickness are usually matters of personal preference, and it's solidly middle of the road there. I would say that I'd use one over the others in the price range any day(like a Tojiro, because they are more flexy, more chip-prone, and don't hold an edge as long).

Consider that both Artifeces are like 1/2 the price of their Wusthof/Shun/Henckels counterparts, and I'd say it's doing pretty dang good. I'm hoping to see another knife soon--a Nakiri or a Parer to go with it.

labor of love

07-06-2012, 01:25 AM

i would certainly take an artifex over a wusthof/shun/henckel. why is it bolsterless?

El Pescador

07-06-2012, 01:26 AM

i would certainly take an artifex over a wusthof/shun/henckel. why is it bolsterless?

Less expensive to produce.

ecchef

07-06-2012, 01:35 AM

Consider that both Artifeces are like 1/2 the price of their Wusthof/Shun/Henckels counterparts, and I'd say it's doing pretty dang good.

Arti feces? Meaning they're crap? :scratchhead:

chinacats

07-06-2012, 01:38 AM

Arti feces? Meaning they're crap? :scratchhead:

:rofl2:

mhlee

07-06-2012, 01:39 AM

Arti feces? Meaning they're crap? :scratchhead:

It's not Scottish, so it must be CCRRAAAPPP!!!!

keithsaltydog

07-06-2012, 01:52 AM

How do you know it's a good cutter? :eyebrow:

As I said it's a plain knife,I have used pretty much only Japan Carbons at work my main knife now is the Konosuki white steel 240 use it for much of my cutting needs.

I have sharpened alot of other's knives,mostly stainless.VG-10,Inox,S35VN.I bought a 210 Artiflex to try out the steel.I can get the AEB-L sharp,the carbides are so fine in this steel it takes a extreme edge,& holds it fairly well.I thin behind the edge & put on a double blended shinogi line.

The handle does not look like much,but for me it is comfortable,no sharp edges.Some western handles I cannot use because I have wide hands,do not like em wt. too much hook on the end.

I might get some flack for this,but I think bolsters are way overrated,Esp.the ones that extend down the heel,making the knife almost impossible to sharpen.Even bolsters at the handle add weight to a knife,not a plus IMO.All my gyuto are Wa Handle thin carbons excellent all day cutters.

I like the Artiflex,for stainless it's good steel,thinner & lighter than many western handle 240 guyto's.If your freehand sharpening is good takes a keen edge.I found it easy to put a thin convex grind wt. a couple stones.Not too much rocker more flat edge geometry,more blade on the board the better.

Eamon Burke

07-06-2012, 02:08 AM

Arti feces? Meaning they're crap? :scratchhead:

Lol, I don't make the rules. Grammar is a funny thing.

That's why most people stop at the Z...but not me!

VoodooMajik

07-06-2012, 02:40 AM

I think I got a good budget pick with my Tojiro ITK, But I think good steel doesn't always dictate price vs. performance.. Until it's been put through the work I'd rather go with a couple other in the price range I think,

Taz575

07-06-2012, 04:56 AM

I have a Tojiro ITK 210mm and it wedged horribly in several foods (potatoes and onions, even rough in larger mushrooms), so reground it a ton. It's much better now, but the Artifex 210mm still out cuts it. For budget knives, the Fujiwara Stainless and Carbons I have seen have had pretty decent F&F, decent blade/grinds, etc. Haven't used them yet though, my friend saw the two I just got in and bought both of them before I could play with them, so now I gotta order some more!

I was surprised at how nice the handle on the newer Artifex feels; well rounded, no sharp spots between the tang and scales, etc. Spine was rounded nicely as well, choil could use a little bit more work. For $70, it's a great deal! I still prefer carbon blades, but I find myself grabbing the Artifex when I don't have much cutting to do or if I am using really acidic foods.

99Limited

07-06-2012, 08:23 AM

I bought a 210mm Artifex from the most current batch and I've been pretty happy with it. You're getting a knife made out of premium steel at a budget price. As far as the handle is concerned, it works. When I use the knife I never notice the scales in my hand and to me that's the way it should be. Another thing about the material used for the scales. They're nicer looking that the wa handles made out of ho wood of way more expensive knives. My knife slices and dices potatoes with no sticking or wedging and slices tomatoes with ease. As a home cook that's about all I need.

Can't say that these same properties transfer to the 240mm version, but I hope so. We could use a nice line of budget knives.

K-Fed

07-06-2012, 09:37 AM

A little bit of a rant here... I didn't get an artifex, though I did get one of the "new" 52100 fanatics. I wanted a chinese style cleaver again but didn't want another cck, and didn't want to spend 300+ for a really nice one ( I also like the size of the cck ) and it had probably the worst grind job that I have seen on any knife at any price. It had a hollow spot at the heel, and the lowest point in the belly of the cleaver was ~ 2 inches from the tip which is far from where it should be. After ~3 hours of work re-grinding on the stones, xxc dmt included it's got a nice convex edge and the profile is ALMOST where it should be. Any way. enough of a rant. Just be aware that the knives are being made in a cookie cutter blade factory and probably being ground by trained monkeys and I feel that I can say with confidence don't have the heart and passion for the craft that go into so many of the japanese and american custom made blades that we know and love.

Eamon Burke

07-06-2012, 11:46 AM

OK I don't want to keep interjecting here, but these knives in particular are pretty close to my heart--because I was going to make these price point and style knives, and then when the Lamson Factory took it up, I realized they could do it cheaper and faster than I ever could, and shifted gears myself. I really want these to be fantastic and sell well enough that other companies follow suit.

The grinds are being done by machines, not people. The number one most important quality of a knife is the grind. A I would grab piece of un-heat treated steel with a handle made of duct tape and the grind of a Shigefusa over a $2000 custom with a full flat grind, dead-flat profile and no taper. It is unfortunate that the number one reason Japanese knives are kicking western knives' asses is the one thing American Manufacturers just won't do--have a skilled laborer finish the grinding. They don't want to invest in a person, because people are too risky--you lose your one guy, you are screwed, and training new people is not as easy on management as just buying a big, wet robot.

I think it would be a complete game changer if just one factory would get someone in the know to design a knife, and then invest in 1-3 actual human lives to instruct and get even moderately good at grinding, and then do it. The appropriate grinds on a knife are a snap to do by hand, when compared to a giant machine. I'm not talking hire a Bladesmith or anything, just teach employees who are settled in life, passionate about knives, and have few opportunities otherwise to make the magic happen. Even Tojiro has folks with eyeballs, brains, and wrists ensuring the knives are just made right, and they are cheap as heck.

You should write them letters. I have, they didn't listen to me!

Justin0505

07-06-2012, 12:59 PM

:goodpost:
a big +1 to that Eamon!

I feel like the C KTG/ L&G knives are so close to getting "it" right, they're just missing that final finishing step that would take them from the level of being "good knives" with some caveats to fantastic knives with no peers for price or performance.
I'm glad that they are making these knives and that they are as good as they are (I haven't used any of this line, but have spent quite a bit of time with 3 others). Still, it is frustrating when they have 90% of the formula in place and just haven't figured out that last 10% of skilled labor. I think that it's kind of what they where trying to compensate for with the hand sharpening option, but a $20 edge is not going to change the grind / make up for skilled human eyes and hands not being involved in the process earlier.

How much do you think that it would add onto the cost to have someone do the final belt grind and sharpening? $50 / blade? I would pay that. The problem is that it would mean that a $90 atifex would become a $140 knife, which is a big difference percentage wise and features like "gind" are harder to sell to the gen pop than things like material and price. Still, it would be cool if it where an option. If people had the option to see really good pictures and performance video of a hand-ground blade next to the robot one, but the option to buy either, I think that it would be very interesting to see how the sales numbers played out.