This is an idea that some of us in the forums have mentioned interest in and i wanted to put the idea up to the wider fourms to see their interest in the idea, i know a new patch just came out dealing with orks and their weapons and we need to test that for a bit and all that, but still

basically you halve the dmg of ork weapons but you double the fire rate so the net dps output is the same

the main and primary reason being that slow firing weapons are quite frankly very unorky and goes against the "philosophy" of the race

cause its

DAKKADAKKADAKKA

not

DAKKA...DAKKA...DAKKA

i also feel that orks should get more kustomization points, for a factions whose upside is highly customizable ships, 2 points is not enough, espically when you kinda have to spend both on kannons

Last edited by Bludfist on 01 April 2016, 14:08, edited 2 times in total.

Bludfist wrote:This is an idea that some of us in the forums have mentioned interest in and i wanted to put the idea up to the wider fourms to see their interest in the idea, i know a new patch just came out dealing with orks and their weapons and we need to test that for a bit and all that, but still

basically you halve the dmg of ork weapons but you double the fire rate so the net dps output is the same

the main and primary reason being that slow firing weapons are quite frankly very unorky and goes against the "philosophy" of the race

agreebut with half you will have the same ROF as imperials or chaos.I want to see a hail of bullets, orks should saturate the space with lead, so increase the rof even more and adjust damage accordingly.

Its rather orky to do so and you get a more consistent damage output. No more dice game when i catch a ship

Would be great, theme wise, but it’s a bit more complicated than that.

You also have to factor in the "to hit" %,"armour deflect" % and crit %. You would change the play style too, since you would be required now to stay on the target more consistently to get the same damage effect.

And that is just want I came up with in 2 minutes, I'm sure I forgot some factors.

thewolfpack wrote:Would be great, theme wise, but it’s a bit more complicated than that.

You also have to factor in the "to hit" %,"armour deflect" % and crit %. You would change the play style too, since you would be required now to stay on the target more consistently to get the same damage effect.

And that is just want I came up with in 2 minutes, I'm sure I forgot some factors.

I dont agree.The dps, dpm, cpm and whatever fancy abbreviations ppl come up with, would not change. They are absolutly the same. What will change is your perception.For example

You have a mega kanon with 122dmg and rof12. You managed to get a chaos ship in 3km for about 12sec (2shots) . First shot at 3km, 50% hit chance... you missed, no damage. After 12s second shot missed, again. The chaos ship slips away. You managed to corner him for a short period of time but the dice fucked you. Unfair.On the other hand, you got lucky and delivered 244 damage. Unfair for the chaos dude as he was only in range for 12s or even worse he was only in range for a half of a second twice in 12s. Your ork ship decided to shoot a pesky escort instead of the heavily damaged assissination target.

With increased ROF this will be decreased, the luck part will be smoothened. Damage output will be more consistent.

I agree with this on two fronts. The first is that it's strongly supported in the fluff that Orkz shoot a lot, but are less accurate, so their variance in damage are very swingy.

The second, and arguably more important, is that the current damage formula for Orkz does NOT lead to a good player experience, and is NOT fun for either player.

Let me explain this second point:> If you have a 144 damage weapon with a 12 second reload, you have 12 DPS.> If you have a 24 damage weapon with a 2 second reload, you also have a 12 DPS weapon.> The difference here is that one weapon does 144 alpha damage and the other one does 24.> Applying perfect accuracy, assuming everything hits, 5 ships with 144 damage weapon deals 720 damage instantly. In other words, the other guy's ship instantly explodes, gg no re. This is a NEGATIVE player experience for the receiving player. There is absolutely no skill involved here in this scenario, and the pinnacle of the type of RNG that an RTS game should NOT have. This would never happen with the 24 DPS weapon.> Applying worst case scenario, assuming everything misses (or deflected), the 5 ships with the 144 damage weapon deals ZERO damage, for 12 seconds. Even if the other ship had 1 HP left, you did absolutely nothing, and cannot do anything about it for 12 seconds. This is a NEGATIVE player experience for the attacking player. This would never happen if the weapon shot at a much faster rate. A lot can happen in 12 seconds, and the fact that the player is not dealing any damage for that duration when they're ORKZ is reverse fluff.> The same logic can be applied for how crits work. 36 crit off 1 shot vs. 6 crit off 6 shots in a span of 12 seconds is much more Ork-like.

So in short, the current iteration of Ork damage calculation is WAYYYY off. Both in terms of what it should be in the FLUFF and as a good RTS experience.

HERO wrote:I agree with this on two fronts. The first is that it's strongly supported in the fluff that Orkz shoot a lot, but are less accurate, so their variance in damage are very swingy.

The second, and arguably more important, is that the current damage formula for Orkz does NOT lead to a good player experience, and is NOT fun for either player.

Let me explain this second point:> If you have a 144 damage weapon with a 12 second reload, you have 12 DPS.> If you have a 24 damage weapon with a 2 second reload, you also have a 12 DPS weapon.> The difference here is that one weapon does 144 alpha damage and the other one does 24.> Applying perfect accuracy, assuming everything hits, 5 ships with 144 damage weapon deals 720 damage instantly. In other words, the other guy's ship instantly explodes, gg no re. This is a NEGATIVE player experience for the receiving player. There is absolutely no skill involved here in this scenario, and the pinnacle of the type of RNG that an RTS game should NOT have. This would never happen with the 24 DPS weapon.> Applying worst case scenario, assuming everything misses, the 5 ships with the 144 damage weapon deals ZERO damage, for 12 seconds. Even if the other ship had 1 HP left, you did absolutely nothing, and cannot do anything about it for 12 seconds. This is a NEGATIVE player experience for the attacking player. This would never happen if the weapon shot at a much faster rate. A lot can happen in 12 seconds, and the fact that the player is not dealing any damage for that duration when they're ORKZ is reverse fluff.> The same logic can be applied for how crits work. 36 crit off 1 shot vs. 6 crit off 6 shots in a span of 12 seconds is much more Ork-like.

So in short, the current iteration of Ork damage calculation is WAYYYY off. Both in terms of what it should be in the FLUFF and as a good RTS experience.

TLDR: Someone messed up, big time.

It was a knee jerk reaction patch, in essence. Orks were smothering win rates and Imperials just couldn't kite or fight them head on.

That lead to a rather extreme patch which really highlights the issue of slow fire+huge RNG=sacky, unfun and sort of unfair which is kind of a check list for what not to do.