Vape/hookah pens vs. tobacco products

Been seeing alot of people running around with these things lately. I think it's safe to say Vapes are healthier than actually smoking cigarettes, but i'm curious to see what diseases they cause 30+ years down the road. Anybody know how much "safer" vapes are than other tobacco products?

Though there are less (or none?) carcinogens in e-cigs, you're still getting your addictive ass dose of nicotine in every inhale.
It's not whether or not it's healthier, it's still bad. Just a little less bad.

Wheaty214Though there are less (or none?) carcinogens in e-cigs, you're still getting your addictive ass dose of nicotine in every inhale.
It's not whether or not it's healthier, it's still bad. Just a little less bad.

Apparently nicotine on its own isn't bad for you, it actually has alot of benefits believe it or not.

I'd much rather just smoke tobacco. With these "safe" "vapor" things your smoking thousands of chemicals that people don't know long term effects on the body. Tobacco isn't at all good for you but your smoking somthing that grows naturally from the earth.

NohaI'd much rather just smoke tobacco. With these "safe" "vapor" things your smoking thousands of chemicals that people don't know long term effects on the body. Tobacco isn't at all good for you but your smoking somthing that grows naturally from the earth.

NohaI'd much rather just smoke tobacco. With these "safe" "vapor" things your smoking thousands of chemicals that people don't know long term effects on the body. Tobacco isn't at all good for you but your smoking somthing that grows naturally from the earth.

NohaI'd much rather just smoke tobacco. With these "safe" "vapor" things your smoking thousands of chemicals that people don't know long term effects on the body. Tobacco isn't at all good for you but your smoking somthing that grows naturally from the earth.

So is there any research at all about the safety?
"Well, an article just published in the New England Journal of Medicine should move the discussion from a fallacious precautionary principle to a serious concern about the the safety of ECs. Using nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy, a powerful tool used by biochemists to identify small concentrations of organic molecules, the researchers looked not at the pre-aerosolized liquid, which seems to contain safe compounds, but at the aerosol itself after vaping.

What they found may substantially increase concerns about the safety of vaping. The propylene glycol, which is in the pre-vaping liquid, breaks down, over time, into formaldehyde. The reaction between the electronic aerosolizer, propylene glycol, glycerol and formaldehyde creates a "formaldehyde releasing agent," called formaldehyde hemiacetals, which are known as industrial biocides. Not good, even at the small levels within an EC aerosol.

Formaldehyde itself, in small amounts, is not dangerous. One's own body creates formaldehyde as a byproduct of numerous biochemical reactions. Many foods contain lots of formaldehyde. But at those levels, it's far below the dose implicated in any health risk.

But at higher levels, formaldehyde is strongly associated with certain cancers. It is considered a Group 1 compound, carcinogenic to humans, by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (pdf), making it one of the 114 compounds that are known carcinogens. And remember, this formaldehyde is heading to one of the most environmentally sensitive organs in the body, the lungs, mouth, throat, etc.

The researchers found that an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3 ml per day (an average) would inhale 14.4±3.3 mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents. In toxicology, it's not the presence of something like formaldehyde that matters, it's the actual dose. And this is where it gets interesting.

So, what does 14.4 mg mean to one's health. Well, an average pack of tobacco cigarettes (20 of them) would deliver 3 mg of formaldehyde to the smoker. In effect, the EC smoker is inhaling nearly 5 packs of cigarettes worth of formaldehyde.

Now to be fair, tobacco based cigarettes have more than just formaldehyde as carcinogens. But how dangerous is 14.4 mg of formaldehyde?

The researchers calculated the increased lifetime risk of cancer for a tobacco cigarette who smoked one pack per day to be about 900 out of a million, meaning if you took a population of 1 million people, smoking cigarettes would mean 900 more people would contract cancer than the same population with no smokers.

Based on the level of 14.4 mg of formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, it would be estimated that inhaling 3 ml of electronic cigarette liquid in aerosol form would lead to a lifetime risk of cancer 4200 out of a million, nearly 5X larger risk than smoking cigarettes. The cancer risk might be substantially higher because of the type and nature of the form of formaldehyde created by the vaping process."

You wanna know what they cause 30 years down the road, probably not much. They've been around in china since 1963 when the first designs were patented. We know the effects from Polypropylene Glycol and it's not really toxic unless you have an allergy. Vegetable Glycerin is pretty safe as well. Really the only thing we don't know is what inhaling some of the flavorings will do. They're really the only part that we don't have much knowledge on. That and the fact almost all of the L-Nicotine used in juice comes from china where there are less regulations on it's production. But if you don't buy the cheap and shitty pens from a gas station it's less of a worry. I won't say they are perfectly safe as I haven't heard enough yet to make that claim, but they defiantly are safer than cigarettes and less addictive.

Nicotine by itself without any MOAI's (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) has been shown to create a relatively weak addiction too. Currently I'm not aware of any MOAI's being present in any e-juices. Cigarettes on the other hand, are loaded with them to amp up nicotine's addictive potential. This is also the same reason why some smokers feel like ecig's don't create the same buzz.

daOysterYou wanna know what they cause 30 years down the road, probably not much. They've been around in china since 1963 when the first designs were patented. We know the effects from Polypropylene Glycol and it's not really toxic unless you have an allergy. Vegetable Glycerin is pretty safe as well. Really the only thing we don't know is what inhaling some of the flavorings will do. They're really the only part that we don't have much knowledge on. That and the fact almost all of the L-Nicotine used in juice comes from china where there are less regulations on it's production. But if you don't buy the cheap and shitty pens from a gas station it's less of a worry. I won't say they are perfectly safe as I haven't heard enough yet to make that claim, but they defiantly are safer than cigarettes and less addictive.

There is some known bad flavouring chemicals that they are already on top of. For example Diacetyl Causes popcorn lung that's pretty fucking bad. there are a few others that are kinda in the same group as Diacetyl but I can't remember them right now. If anyone is wondering Diacetyl is usually used for buttery flavours. I vape ecigs and that's one thing I try and stay away from. Right now I'm mostly vaping a menthol flavour that doesn't leave anything on my coil. My brother has been using it for a really long time now and swears by it. He's been using a Kanger subtank OCC coil for about 2-3 months now and it looks brand new.

daOysterNicotine by itself without any MOAI's (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) has been shown to create a relatively weak addiction too. Currently I'm not aware of any MOAI's being present in any e-juices. Cigarettes on the other hand, are loaded with them to amp up nicotine's addictive potential. This is also the same reason why some smokers feel like ecig's don't create the same buzz.

One other thing to note is that they add anti-depressants into Cigarettes so people are likely to become addicted to the anti-depressants. That's why people feel the need for a cigarette when they are stressed out.

So is there any research at all about the safety?
"Well, an article just published in the New England Journal of Medicine should move the discussion from a fallacious precautionary principle to a serious concern about the the safety of ECs. Using nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy, a powerful tool used by biochemists to identify small concentrations of organic molecules, the researchers looked not at the pre-aerosolized liquid, which seems to contain safe compounds, but at the aerosol itself after vaping.

What they found may substantially increase concerns about the safety of vaping. The propylene glycol, which is in the pre-vaping liquid, breaks down, over time, into formaldehyde. The reaction between the electronic aerosolizer, propylene glycol, glycerol and formaldehyde creates a "formaldehyde releasing agent," called formaldehyde hemiacetals, which are known as industrial biocides. Not good, even at the small levels within an EC aerosol.

Formaldehyde itself, in small amounts, is not dangerous. One's own body creates formaldehyde as a byproduct of numerous biochemical reactions. Many foods contain lots of formaldehyde. But at those levels, it's far below the dose implicated in any health risk.

But at higher levels, formaldehyde is strongly associated with certain cancers. It is considered a Group 1 compound, carcinogenic to humans, by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (pdf), making it one of the 114 compounds that are known carcinogens. And remember, this formaldehyde is heading to one of the most environmentally sensitive organs in the body, the lungs, mouth, throat, etc.

The researchers found that an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3 ml per day (an average) would inhale 14.4±3.3 mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents. In toxicology, it's not the presence of something like formaldehyde that matters, it's the actual dose. And this is where it gets interesting.

So, what does 14.4 mg mean to one's health. Well, an average pack of tobacco cigarettes (20 of them) would deliver 3 mg of formaldehyde to the smoker. In effect, the EC smoker is inhaling nearly 5 packs of cigarettes worth of formaldehyde.

Now to be fair, tobacco based cigarettes have more than just formaldehyde as carcinogens. But how dangerous is 14.4 mg of formaldehyde?

The researchers calculated the increased lifetime risk of cancer for a tobacco cigarette who smoked one pack per day to be about 900 out of a million, meaning if you took a population of 1 million people, smoking cigarettes would mean 900 more people would contract cancer than the same population with no smokers.

Based on the level of 14.4 mg of formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, it would be estimated that inhaling 3 ml of electronic cigarette liquid in aerosol form would lead to a lifetime risk of cancer 4200 out of a million, nearly 5X larger risk than smoking cigarettes. The cancer risk might be substantially higher because of the type and nature of the form of formaldehyde created by the vaping process."

So is there any research at all about the safety?
"Well, an article just published in the New England Journal of Medicine should move the discussion from a fallacious precautionary principle to a serious concern about the the safety of ECs. Using nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy, a powerful tool used by biochemists to identify small concentrations of organic molecules, the researchers looked not at the pre-aerosolized liquid, which seems to contain safe compounds, but at the aerosol itself after vaping.

What they found may substantially increase concerns about the safety of vaping. The propylene glycol, which is in the pre-vaping liquid, breaks down, over time, into formaldehyde. The reaction between the electronic aerosolizer, propylene glycol, glycerol and formaldehyde creates a "formaldehyde releasing agent," called formaldehyde hemiacetals, which are known as industrial biocides. Not good, even at the small levels within an EC aerosol.

Formaldehyde itself, in small amounts, is not dangerous. One's own body creates formaldehyde as a byproduct of numerous biochemical reactions. Many foods contain lots of formaldehyde. But at those levels, it's far below the dose implicated in any health risk.

But at higher levels, formaldehyde is strongly associated with certain cancers. It is considered a Group 1 compound, carcinogenic to humans, by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (pdf), making it one of the 114 compounds that are known carcinogens. And remember, this formaldehyde is heading to one of the most environmentally sensitive organs in the body, the lungs, mouth, throat, etc.

The researchers found that an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3 ml per day (an average) would inhale 14.4±3.3 mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents. In toxicology, it's not the presence of something like formaldehyde that matters, it's the actual dose. And this is where it gets interesting.

So, what does 14.4 mg mean to one's health. Well, an average pack of tobacco cigarettes (20 of them) would deliver 3 mg of formaldehyde to the smoker. In effect, the EC smoker is inhaling nearly 5 packs of cigarettes worth of formaldehyde.

Now to be fair, tobacco based cigarettes have more than just formaldehyde as carcinogens. But how dangerous is 14.4 mg of formaldehyde?

The researchers calculated the increased lifetime risk of cancer for a tobacco cigarette who smoked one pack per day to be about 900 out of a million, meaning if you took a population of 1 million people, smoking cigarettes would mean 900 more people would contract cancer than the same population with no smokers.

Based on the level of 14.4 mg of formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, it would be estimated that inhaling 3 ml of electronic cigarette liquid in aerosol form would lead to a lifetime risk of cancer 4200 out of a million, nearly 5X larger risk than smoking cigarettes. The cancer risk might be substantially higher because of the type and nature of the form of formaldehyde created by the vaping process."

Fuck Cigs, Fuck E-cigs, Fuck Nicotine, Smoke Weed

You forgot to mention that the researchers were overheating their coils and running them at 5.0 volts. Normal use doesn't heat the liquid enough to break it down into formaldehyde. The researchers were essentially creating dry hits from the tested vapes and pretty much burning off the liquid, not vaporizing it. They went far beyond the temperatures required to produce vapor. No one vapes at those temperatures because it tastes absolutely disgusting and burns. Find another study that isn't flawed and come back to me.

And if you read the study, when they brought the voltage down to real life use and not letting the coils stay on in between puffs, no detectable levels of formaldehyde were found. But you probably didn't fully read the study.

daOysterYou forgot to mention that the researchers were overheating their coils and running them at 5.0 volts. Normal use doesn't heat the liquid enough to break it down into formaldehyde. The researchers were essentially creating dry hits from the tested vapes and pretty much burning off the liquid, not vaporizing it. They went far beyond the temperatures required to produce vapor. No one vapes at those temperatures because it tastes absolutely disgusting and burns. Find another study that isn't flawed and come back to me.

daOysterAnd if you read the study, when they brought the voltage down to real life use and not letting the coils stay on in between puffs, no detectable levels of formaldehyde were found. But you probably didn't fully read the study.

daOysterAnd if you read the study, when they brought the voltage down to real life use and not letting the coils stay on in between puffs, no detectable levels of formaldehyde were found. But you probably didn't fully read the study.

Who taught you how to read?

"The propylene glycol, which is in the pre-vaping liquid, breaks down, over time, into formaldehyde."
"The researchers found that an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3 ml per day (an average) would inhale 14.4±3.3 mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents"

"The propylene glycol, which is in the pre-vaping liquid, breaks down, over time, into formaldehyde."
"The researchers found that an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3 ml per day (an average) would inhale 14.4±3.3 mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents"

From the study, "This happens when propylene glycol and glycerol are heated in the presence of oxygen to temperatures reached by commercially available e-cigarettes operating at high voltage." At 5.0 volts they found formaldehyde releasing agents. If you didn't skim to that line then you would of also read "At low voltage (3.3v) we did not detect the formation of any formaldehyde-releasing agents." 3.3v is a lot closer to what your typical user would be running commercially available coils on. Running most disposable coils at 5.0 volts will produce burnt or dry hits. This is when formaldehyde is going to be created. Any sane person I know doesn't intentionally try to create these dry hits.

They also didn't state the resistance of any of the coils used so we don't know how hot they were getting at 5.o volts. A coil with 1.6 ohms of resistance running at 5.0 volts isn't going to get as hot as a coil with 1.2 ohms running at 5.0 volts. It's pretty well agreed upon in the community that the study didn't use appropriate conditions in their tests. So again, until you find a study where they are testing vapes in a range of normal use and still find harmful levels of formaldehyde, don't try and argue they do.

Rafikithe fact that you so enthusiastically defend vaping makes you a twat

The fact you enthusiastically jump to calling someone a twat for pointing out a flawed study makes you no better than me in this case. And sorry I'm defend something that stopped my mother from smoking at least a pack of cigarettes a day when nothing else did. Glad she can breathe better, doesn't smell like stale smoke, and has less of a chance for some aliments that smoking can cause. But hey, supporting my mom makes me a twat then.

daOysterThe fact you enthusiastically jump to calling someone a twat for pointing out a flawed study makes you no better than me in this case. And sorry I'm defend something that stopped my mother from smoking at least a pack of cigarettes a day when nothing else did. Glad she can breathe better, doesn't smell like stale smoke, and has less of a chance for some aliments that smoking can cause. But hey, supporting my mom makes me a twat then.

this so much, i think cigarettes are so gross now. can hardly even smoke a pipe or a cigar anymore either.

daOysterThe fact you enthusiastically jump to calling someone a twat for pointing out a flawed study makes you no better than me in this case. And sorry I'm defend something that stopped my mother from smoking at least a pack of cigarettes a day when nothing else did. Glad she can breathe better, doesn't smell like stale smoke, and has less of a chance for some aliments that smoking can cause. But hey, supporting my mom makes me a twat then.

I have owned 2 hookah pens and have to say both hurt my lungs and throat when I hit them and I coughed for about a day after.I don't really smoke anything so that probably affected this. Also they were the jank ass high nicotine ones from the Arabian Market.