first off all! to everybody! DO NOT accept the procedure according the HF email!

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Confirmation that you understand USD order totals that were originally paid with BTC can be refunded in BTC at the USD to BTC market exchange rate on the date of refund.

it is a agreement and if you sign it HF is on the save side! the only goal of HF ist to get as many customers as they can to sign this.

request a full refund in BTC with market exchange rate on the date of order if you paid in BTC! do this immeditaly after 31 Dec if they fail to deliver. accept NO OTHER agreement and let them know this fact!

this is very important, if you sign a contract agreeing to the new terms, you are screwed. That is why this is worded this way. PLEASE DON'T EVER DO THIS! IF THEY SAY YOU WON'T GET A REFUND UNLESS YOU SIGN THEY ARE LYING.

If you paid in BTC, only accept that exact amount of BTC in refund. We have seen proof that the policy was in place when orders were made.

do we have a full list of all email addresses fo HF batch 1 customers? this information above is very important! no one should sign or agree to this new HF extension of the original TOS!

first off all! to everybody! DO NOT accept the procedure according the HF email!

Exactly.

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Confirmation that you understand USD order totals that were originally paid with BTC can be refunded in BTC at the USD to BTC market exchange rate on the date of refund.

it is a agreement and if you sign it HF is on the save side!

Exactly.

Let me rephrase this letter:

Quote from: HF in honest mode

Hey you suckers, those of you who are willing to forfeit 85% of their investment without a fight, would you please step forward? By signing this, you are waiving your rights for a full refund. We appreciate your business.

This is what this mail sounds like to my ears.

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the only goal of HF is to get as many customers as they can to sign this.

request a full refund in BTC with market exchange rate on the date of order if you paid in BTC! do this immeditaly after 31 Dec if they fail to deliver. accept NO OTHER agreement and let them know this fact!

I don't fully agree with this second point.

In fact, I think HF has (at least) two goals here:

1. Chips away some of our crucial rights, by entering in to new a understanding with them.2. Collect info about the "whiners"; those problematic clients who are so arrogant that they actually want to fight for their rights.

This second point is important too, because if they know who are the ones who actually know that they are entitled full BTC refunds, they know where to focus their energies!For example, they might want to try to shit their very limited supply of actually working BJs to them, to avoid having to give them BTC refunds.

This is why I say that we should withhold this information from them!

Information is power, and we are in a war with them. (They started it, but we need to finish it.) So I think we should not respond do this mail at all.There is no reason to. We can demand our refund later, as spelled out in the TOS.

Saying "OK" will take our rights away.Saying "F.U." will place us in their attention.

I did not receive the latest email, but I am not a batch 1 customer. The email seems like their usual psychological tactics. They want you to think that you can't have your BTC back so that you will just give up and accept their terms. They have been running mind games on us from the beginning. They call it marketing.

is impossible somenone return the refund at btcno one company can do that

According to Cypherdoc (who was being paid by HF at the time) HF has been holding the customer pre-order BTC until the end of year (as they should since they are not allowed to use it to fund development anyway since we are not investors or backers).

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they want only those committed to leaving their BTC with HashFast until the end of the year. if they fail to deliver, they have said they will give full refunds in BTC.

That is, bitch and moan about getting BTC back, and then probably 95% of you will never file suit. This means Hashfast learned well from BFL. History repeats itself. Eduardo and Fisting Porn dude chuckle and pat themselves on the back, send a thank you note to Inaba.

With option C, however, we have a chance at negotiating better deal. So, better deal for all, or possibly BTC refund for a few people, less lawyer's fees, who have the balls to sue?

Cedivad, I understand your points, but I don't think your suit is responsive to the situation of people who paid in USD. People who paid in USD cannot sue to "get their bitcoins back". So, we can't 'work together' with a lawsuit with your approach. Also, saying that each and every person should sue is a bit silly, as you yourself have noted that the lawsuit route, even if successful, is unlikely to be cost effective for smaller customers.

I don't disrepect your position Cedivad - I think it's a perfectly reasonable response for you - but let's not pretend it really will solve anyone else's problems.

is impossible somenone return the refund at btcno one company can do that

According to Cypherdoc (who was being paid by HF at the time) HF has been holding the customer pre-order BTC until the end of year (as they should since they are not allowed to use it to fund development anyway since we are not investors or backers).

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they want only those committed to leaving their BTC with HashFast until the end of the year. if they fail to deliver, they have said they will give full refunds in BTC.

I don't disrepect your position Cedivad - I think it's a perfectly reasonable response for you - but let's not pretend it really will solve anyone else's problems.

I understand and agree completely. You have my complete support in any "white flag" action against HashFast. If there is anything i can help with just ask. On an unrelated note, how many ordered with USD? I guess that it's a minority, i'm i wrong?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

The real problem here is that the initial BTC purchase price was too high for the actual delivery date (based on impossible delivery claims).

If the price had gone up 1000x but the units were able to achieve break-even with their purchase price (in BTC), only a few would give a rat's ass that they were "late".

If they want to just cancel and refund... well... that is a very expensive proposition.

My proposal is that they deliver hardware AND refund the difference between the hardware's statistical profitability (after 90 days of receipt of hardware) and the actual purchase price. If they want to provide more hash power at an accelerated rate to reduce the refund difference amount and get to break-even faster, that is fine.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers