Jain dosnt make sense in any of this. Even the book when she goes back to see her friends dead and just starts killing the looting orcs... That's just not how kind caring people function. Where's the pain and the screams and the fights against your own identity? She went murderous wrench in the blink of an eye and didn't even puke once. That's just bad story writing all day long.

Sylvanas has been through the pain over and over. She would level any and raise them as her own. It's become a deep part of her history. She had all her pain and the story shows her rip out the worthless emotions to put success ahead of all for her people.

Jaina isn't even a drop in the bucket next to Sylvanas in the game she tries to play.

In the gilnean starting zone all the feral worgen controlled the inland areas while the Gilneans lived in Duskhaven until the Forsaken showed up. There was I think, one village towards the east coast that wasn't worgen-ified.

I haven't seen any Forsaken story at all in Mists so far. Seems they are on the back burner for this expansion. My hope is that Sylvanas comes down from the pipe dream that she can become something of the Lich King's caliber and begins to find a cure for the plague. That way the line between Forsaken and undead isn't just who controls their minds.

Sylvanas doesn't really control anyone. That's why she can get betrayed. That's why you see Lesser Val'kyr destroying undead they have recently raised - you become Forsaken by choice, if you do not wish such a "second life" ... back to the ground you go.

Anyway, I find the current writing to be pretty horrible. Seriously, Sylvanas should be more competent than the way she is portrayed during the Forsaken starting quests. One of the Val'kyr even got killed by the Alliance ... Those gals are in short supply you know, you would figure she would take better care of them instead of letting them patrol some dangerous territory.

Jaina? More or less lost her mind. The Sunreaver breaking neutrality? She allowing King Chin to use Theramore (now TherNoMore, heh) to invade the Southern Barrens and setting up protection wards in Darnassus to protect the Bell isn't "breaking neutrality"? WTH.

What's so boggling about it? Jaina is now evil and Sylvanas has always being evil. No one is saying what Sylvanas does on a daily basis is ok, in fact I'm pretty sure any Alliance leader would love to kill Sylvanas if they had a chance to. The reason why everyone is talking about Jaina now is because she used to be more level headed than that, I mean we're talking about the girl who helped kill her own father to protect Orgrimmar ffs!

---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 02:31 PM ----------

Originally Posted by SodiumChloride

Sylvanas doesn't really control anyone. That's why she can get betrayed. That's why you see Lesser Val'kyr destroying undead they have recently raised - you become Forsaken by choice, if you do not wish such a "second life" ... back to the ground you go.

Do you really believe that? The people she raised as forsaken to show Garrosh the power of the Valkyrs were pretty fast into /saluting her and the citizens you kill in the Battle for Andorhal didn't seem to need much convincing from going to "running away or trying to kill you" to "bowing their head to Sylvanas and joining her worship" once they got necroed. I'm also still having a hard time believing Galen Trollbane decided to betray the Alliance once he became a Forsaken out of free will.

She may let most of her followers retain control of their minds, but it doesn't mean she's not building up a small army of mindless drones on the side while nobody's looking.

Garrosh had more depth and more moral ambiguity than Sylvanas, his story was taking a more interesting path until the writers decided that they'd write the story according to playerbase popularity. Sylvanas is basically as bad as Arthas, she slaughters her enemies mercilessly , resses them back to fight for her (or go crazy and run off into the woods Lillian Voss style) and she "re-programs" her own commanders if they deviate from her planned atrocities in the slightest (ask Koltira Deathweaver what happens when you disobey at all). The fact that Garrosh is the main villain in this expansion just shows me the state of the story telling in warcraft.

TLDR: Alliance complain about Jaina being too soft , we get this. Horde complain about Garrosh and he becomes the focus of what's wrong with the horde, completely forgetting about whatever they were trying to set up with Sylvanas. Turns out us players write a completely garbage story.

In the gilnean starting zone all the feral worgen controlled the inland areas while the Gilneans lived in Duskhaven until the Forsaken showed up. There was I think, one village towards the east coast that wasn't worgen-ified.

If it comes to serving her peoples continued existence, she did the right thing. I've argued before that she is one of the more lenient leaders because she, for the most part, lets the Forsaken choose whatever path they wish to take. Even if it is defecting. There is a price to pay for having that freedom. She had to squash some bugs, and fix some things.

How do you figure? Remember what she did to Koltira for helping Thassarian? Haven't seen him since.

And I'm sorry but if your continued existence means mutilating the corpses of the dead and forcing people into undeath is just wrong, plain and simple. Especially when we know for a fact the spiritual side exists in this universe and whatever's waiting for them there has got to be better than being raised as a rotting corpse.

I don't care if it's 'for the good of her people' or not, what Sylvanas does is WRONG. And we've seen numerous times she doesn't care that much about individual members of her race anyway. She cares about herself and her power.