Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Oh fuckity mcfuckshit, guys. I have been having heart palpitations all day, so I am really not in the mood to discuss this comic. That's right, this xkcd literally broke my heart.

OK, not really. I did kind of luck out in the respect that I'm a Star Wars nerd. Still, wow, what a crock of shit. I guess I should be all like "GOOMH, Randy!!! I totally watched Star Wars on TV during the holidays, too!" I went over to the forums to see if that's what his fans are doing, and instead got treated to a discussion of Darth Vader and Padme masturbation and god fucking DAMN IT.

Let's cut to the fucking chase here. Why the hell is Vader so tiny? Darth Vader was 6'8". He towered over most anyone. That was a big part of what made him so intimidating-- he wasn't just a dude in a crazy armored suit(stormtroopers had suits, too,) he was a dude in a HUGE armored suit. Observe the following:

Now look at xkcd-Vader flipped to compare him to the paramedics:

Handwave away the shitty art all you want, but to me a big part of the humor in the idea of Vader erotically force-choking himself to death is the fact that he's such a powerful, bad ass dude. Drawing him so that he looks like a skinny midget really spoils the joke.

The joke was also diminished for me by this little fact: When Anakin falls onto the lava during his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar, his lungs were seared. Part of the reason he wears the suit is because he can't fucking breathe without it. Maybe I'm way off-base here, but it doesn't seem likely to me that someone who is essentially living in a giant iron lung would be attracted to the idea of auto-erotic asphyxiation. I'll admit that's extremely pedantic and nitpicky of me, but considering xkcd's target audience is exactly the sort of folks who would be pedantic and nitpicky about Star Wars stuff, I think it's worth pointing out.

I think Carl is back to posting on Friday's comic, so Happy New Year's, bitches, and perhaps I'll sneak a little hamster action onto the blog in the next few days.

The joke was also diminished for me by this little fact: When Anakin falls onto the lava during his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar, his lungs were seared. Part of the reason he wears the suit is because he can't fucking breathe without it. Maybe I'm way off-base here, but it doesn't seem likely to me that someone who is essentially living in a giant iron lung would be attracted to the idea of auto-erotic asphyxiation. I'll admit that's extremely pedantic and nitpicky of me, but considering xkcd's target audience is exactly the sort of folks who would be pedantic and nitpicky about Star Wars stuff, I think it's worth pointing out.

I was reading the xkcdexplained entry for this and I was kind of disturbed by the stuff they were mentioning, like the "death erection" that is common with auto-erotic asphyxiation or their saying that Randall didn't include, which is good? I guess? They also said that this joke could've been handled differently because of the fact that Darth uses a mechanical respirator, so he could achieve the same effect by simply turning the amount of oxygen down, but that wouldn't result in as hilarious a joke... now I don't know about many other people here, but I sure didn't think this was a "hilarious" joke but maybe worth a questioning chuckle.

I, too, could not find any humor in this comic because Vader was not the correct size. In fact, the quality of the drawings was always what attracted me to xkcd back when it was good. It was always the quality...

Well, if "star wars" were a science fiction I'm sure we'd geek on it. But since it's a children's fantasy there seems little point. Not sure you understand Munroe's "target audience" very well. Further research is indicated.

1. The mirror is obviously there for a reason, as there's no other detail in the room, meaning he drew it for a purpose. But what? So Vader can't use his Force choke on himself without a mirror? What sense does that make? Does he not know where his own friggin' neck is?

2. Why is this happening in a regular house? Isn't Star Wars a long time ago in a galaxy far far away? Shouldn't Vader be on the Death Star, or Coruscant, or something in space? Oh wait, that would require effort to draw...silly me. But still, how much work would it have taken to draw like one of those futuristic pod bay doors or something and a giant monitor with the Wikipedia entry instead of a laptop computer at a desk?

3. A regular person trying to choke his/herself would have their body go limp when the brain lost enough oxygen, releasing the grip they have on their own neck, preventing them from choking themselves. In the same vein, Vader's Force choke would magically disappear as he lost consciousness, ALSO preventing him from choking himself, so the joke DOESN'T EVEN WORK. This is why people who are actually into erotic asphyxiation use nooses, scarves, plastic bags, and other tools, because putting your own hands around your neck is pointless. God damn it Randall if you're going to make sex jokes at least do some fucking research.

4. Really? Vader has a Force choke so what if he used it for sex purposes? This is like...one step above Luke flying in an X-wing with a bunch of silverware and saying "I thought you said 'May the FORKS be with you!'" Actually I take it back. This is one step below that because at least that has a pun in it and therefore some semblance of a joke. I don't even KNOW what this is except "Hey guys, Star Wars! Sex! AMIRITE?"

The only way this could work is if he just shut of his breathing thing on his suit, rather than force choking himself. That way he'd lose conciousness and wouldn't be able to turn it back on, resulting in paramedics. But then you wouldn't need the mirror (which, as pointed out, is pointless anyway) and it wouldn't necessarily have to be Vader either, just someone with an iron lung. But then all geek cred is lost and it becomes to obvious that the joke sucks.

On first sight, I also supposed that the choking was done by shutting off his oxygen supply, which looked only logical and more disaster prone than the "Force bouncing off the mirror" thing, so I didn't really understand the mirror.

I don't think this is a terrible joke. It might even be a decent joke, but the art really kills it. The problem, I guess, is that this kind of joke is ALREADY spoiled by coming off the hands of Randall; sexy adventures, geek culture items in strange set-ups, AND quirky uses of Wikipedia are already well known xkcd clichés, so there's no surprise factor here. (hey, I just realised I used an Oxford comma there)

This COULD be a funny strip if the art was better and if we didn't know Randall was so obsessed with that kind of thing.

"...but it doesn't seem likely to me that someone who is essentially living in a giant iron lung would be attracted to the idea of auto-erotic asphyxiation..."

Dahling, you should leave the medical prognostication to the professionals. As an ex-palliative care worker, you know, easing people into the Light and remunerated on a commission basis I might add, you'd be quite amazed at the shenanigans up to which those folks get.

Terrible update. Bad art (besides Darth Vader, that mirror does not look right at all), flimsy premise for a joke, and a lazy set up to get the joke across. (Which is better than not getting the point across, I guess, but seriously, is a room empty except for a mirror and a Wikipedia article on the topic in question the best Randall could do?)

"...You are a suprisingly common affectation and a suprisingly common bore...."

And you're surprised?

I think that if you re-read my dross you might notice my addition of a third prefix: 'pre' on the latter rendition.You are correct in your belief that my renderings are becoming lamentable, alas, tarrying with a dullard has that effect on me.

Yo, Linux is a really good operating system if you like wasting 5 hours every weekend reformatting your hard drive to make an obscure brand of USB stick work while everyone else plays video games and posts on the xkcdsucks blog.

I'm surprised I'm the first to bring up the alt text. It sucks, because it uses a different and incompatible meaning of "choke". As if Randall couldn't decide which way he wanted to take the joke, so he tried and failed for both.

Jesus Christ Dude. Get over yourself. This comic was hilarious in my opinion. I found 676 very funny because the joke was in the alt text after a lot of setup. I didn't find the ones in between very funny. Being consistently funny to all audiences is difficult. If you don't like the XKCD humor go elsewhere, I know you wrote a post about why it's vitally important that you keep doing this but it's really not. Criticism is good but given the effort you are putting into criticizing a comic you're just seeming grumpy and uselessly obsessed. I found one or two of your posts funny but at this point I'm just disturbed. I think that XKCD fun boyisim is ridiculous but that it's one of the more consistently funny webcomics and I think that's great for Randall.

Anon, there are multiple people who post here. In fact, this most recent post was not written by Carl (the blog's owner whom you seem to have an issue with), but rather by aloria, who is hella-fuckin'-balls-to-the-wall awesome.

And yes, being consistently funny to all audiences IS difficult - that's why there are plenty of mediocre comedians, comedic films, comedic TV shows, etc. and very, very few truly great ones. That doesn't make the mediocre ones any less mediocre. "Boo hoo, this is hard" is no excuse for sucking, especially when you've been at it for several years without showing any attempts at improvement.

If you're going to try and tie Star Wars and sex together, at least do it in a funny way ala Sexy Losers.http://sexylosers.com/002.html

Also, not to be nerd-central, but does the Force really need line-of-sight? I remember that in A New Hope Luke wore that helmet when he was training with the floating shooty things. Unless he was just learning to rely on the Force.

What the **** those panels about charging and credit cards aren't throwaway panels?

To me, they really feel like throwaway panels. A weak, standalone joke. It doesn't contribute to the rhythm that the rest of the comic has. I think the first three panels originally formed the top third of the comic, and it was shifted around when published in book form. IDK. I guess maybe not.

I think the first row (including the first panel) is supposed to be cut of when printed in some newspapers (due to space constraints), therefore cartoonists usually put some weak pre-setup for a joke there.

The latest xkcd is so terribly unoriginal, I almost feel sorry for Carl for having to review it.

Femalethoth, that's likely what happened. You see it with a lot of Sunday comics. They're usually split into two parts: the top third (usually a couple of panels) will contain a small, seperate joke that has nothing to do with the rest of the strip.

This way, papers with space restraints can chop off the top of the comic and run the bottom 2/3 and still have a full joke, and those with a bit more can run the full comic.

And yeah, when it went into book form, because they probably wanted to keep the Sunday strips to one single page, because of the difference in height/width with a book page as opposed to a portion of a newspaper page, caused them to rearrange the panels a bit.

So the first two panels about charging and credit cards was the "throwaway" joke, as you suspect.

Man my comment was way too wordy.

Anyway today's comic sucks and the only good thing about it was that it referenced "Look Around You" which is actually pretty funny. So once again, the ONLY good thing about this comic is that it has reminded me of something that is better and actually worthwhile that I could be reading/watching instead of xkcd.

What I meant, Mal, was that Amend doesn't necessarily have "throwaway panels" as you seem to think they are.

Think about most newspaper comics you read, actually Timofei hit it right on the money, the first 3 can be considered a "throwaway joke" and in a sense they are, they don't hold the same punch as the actual punchline does, I always consider them as a supplement to the end punchline, what you consider them, I don't know what the fuck, I'm a little too drunk to carry on a conversation about this right now, I'll get back to you tomorrow.

To those that don't understand the presence of the mirror: it's there so he can watch. A fair number of people enjoy watching themselves masturbate, or doing something sadistic to others. It has nothing to do with the Force.

Compare to a PhD comic from earlier this year... or last year... whatever. I don't mind that the joke's been done before; it's the telling, not the story/joke itself, that makes it interesting.

And 683 was almost a good retelling. Where it breaks down is in saying "an antimatter factory" instead of something more mundane like "a factory". It's small, but it changes the whole feel of the joke. Up till there, the left column wouldn't be out of place in CSI:Miami. The rat on the scientist's head just looks like a small visual gag, not part of what's being portrayed. It makes it feel like we're supposed to laugh at the genre, not laugh with an affectionate parody (then again, CSI:Miami is already that, can you parody a parody?).

The problem is, the joke should be funny because the exaggeration used in the movies and shows is already funny. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be a joke, it would just be an inaccuracy. The extra exaggeration sounds like something someone who doesn't understand the genre or the medium would say; someone who isn't the target audience, so to speak. You almost want to explain why the genre is the way it is so that the comic can be in on the joke.

Also, compare the reference in the alt-text to those in the PhD comic (CSI, Bones, and Mythbusters). The gag in the PhD comic works without the reference while in xkcd's alt-text the reference is the gag.

Actually, I didn't catch the reference at first either. I thought it was a reference to an earlier xkcd or something. So I googled "Helvetica scenario" and xkcd, and the first result was the forum thread. One of the comments in the thread linked to the "queen atom" part of the episode, and by looking at related links I saw "Look Around You" and went "OH HEY. I remember watching all these. They're great!"

Eh, it's still just a shameless reference to something else put in solely for geek cred, and reminds some people of something a whole lot funnier/better than xkcd that people could be seeing.

What a way for Randall to start the new year! One of the most overdone jokes about movies, executed with zero inspiration and a pointless reference thrown into the alt-text. Is this going to be the year when everyone finally realises XKCD sucks?

To those that don't understand the presence of the mirror: it's there so he can watch. A fair number of people enjoy watching themselves masturbate, or doing something sadistic to others. It has nothing to do with the Force.

A fair number of people enjoy videotaping themselves, or lubricating themselves with hot butter as well. Why wasn't there a videocamera or a tub of butter au bain-marie in the comic?

In other words, why add such a meaningless detail ("Also Vader is part of the demographic likes to watch himself jerk off"!) in such an otherwise minimalist strip?

Man, I am looking at Assorted Foxtrot, and I am reeeeeally pretty sure that the first three panels (title, standalone joke) were originally the top row of a three-row format, designed to possibly be cut.

You may mean that he ended up not having throwaway panels, just like Watterson. Keep in mind that Watterson worked in the standard Sunday format for years before he ended up getting the freedom to design his own layout. He didn't start out that way. And I don't think Amend started out that way, either.

Yeah, because it's totally unreasonable to expect a guy whose art style takes all of about 5 minutes to produce to take an extra minute or so to make sure the guy the whole strip revolves around doesn't look like a weird midget.

As near as I can tell Mal (now that I'm sober), both Amend and Watterson were using the "standard format" allowed, I can't tell for sure since I'm not a syndicate runner or a paper editor so I have no idea.

ANY WAYS, from looking through my Foxtrot collection Amend stopped his 4 row Sundays in late 1999 when he switched the size of his published books and he could no longer fit 4 rows into the smaller book and he had to go to the 2 row system he uses now. This could be for syndicate reasons as well, but I don't have his phone number so I can't just call him up and ask (as much as I would like to)

and as I final note, I would like to point out that not all of Amend's 4 row Sundays had "standalone jokes" as flipping through my copy of I'm Flying Jack... I Mean, Roger I can count 6 out of 10 Sundays where there is no standalone joke and the first 2 panels are part of the established punchline at the end.

I'm looking through my copy of I'm Flying Jack, and it seems that most of them could at least be cut. Though there are a few that at least are extensions of the rest of the comic, rather than totally standalone. IDK.

Anyway those first three panels of the Foxtrot I posted are hella lame is thep oint.

Mal if all you were saying was that the standalone for the Physics comic was lame, then why didn't you just say that? You said "CONS: Argh blargh throwaway panels RAGE"

You also said "What the **** those panels about charging and credit cards aren't throwaway panels?

To me, they really feel like throwaway panels. A weak, standalone joke." so you never stated anywhere that you thought that it was a lame joke. You kept saying that it was a standalone joke and that they are throwaway panels.

In short your inability to just say you didn't like the joke led to several unnecessary comments, good job

"You kept saying that it was a standalone joke and that they are throwaway panels."

Because that is the case.

Okay, using my masterful MS Paint skills, I have rearranged the panels from Femalethoth's scan to the format that they were arranged in the paper the day they were run. I'm also not 100% sure how to link it directly so I'll just have to make do, sorry.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/kaemmerite/foxtrota.jpg

In this arrangement, you can easily see how the first two panels of the comic are a throwaway joke that have nothing to do with the rest of the setup (the joke is that he is "charging" something and then tries to decide which card to "charge" it with). It is its own separate joke and is easily, easily removed without any harm to the rest of the comic.

Like so:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/kaemmerite/foxtrotb.jpg

This is how papers with less free space for their comics would run it (they'd use a different font than TNR but I used that as an example of how it would appear). As you can see, the top row of panels is removed, the joke still makes sense, and no harm has been done.

Whether Amend always did this or not? I don't know. My paper didn't carry FoxTrot until like two years ago so I missed a large chunk of the comic's history, as opposed to Calvin and Hobbes which ran for a good portion. I also have the three volume hardcover Calvin collection so I can more easily reference Watterson's work, since I have no FoxTrot books to look at.

"A fair number of people enjoy videotaping themselves, or lubricating themselves with hot butter as well. Why wasn't there a videocamera or a tub of butter au bain-marie in the comic?

In other words, why add such a meaningless detail ("Also Vader is part of the demographic likes to watch himself jerk off"!) in such an otherwise minimalist strip?"

It's a common turn-on. Everyone I know enjoys watching their self. It's just an addition to the joke... Considering Darth Vader is a sadist, it should be obvious to anyone, fan or otherwise, that he'd enjoy watching himself.

How is watching yourself a turn-on unless you're gay or bi? I mean I'm straight...so why would I want to watch myself jerking off? I don't get off on seeing dudes. And last I checked Vader isn't gay, since he had, y'know, a wife.

Unless Vader is bi, but I really can't think of any evidence at all that would support this theory. Again, I'm pretty sure the mirror is supposed to be there to imply Vader needs to see himself to use the Force choke on himself, which is disproved by Yoda in Empire, meaning the mirror is entirely pointless.

I think the "sadism" that was mentioned is probably "Vader enjoys seeing others undergo harm, so he would want to see himself in a mirror being harmed because that would turn him on." Except he'd be looking at HIMSELF, so that'd be masochism, not sadism, and Vader isn't a masochist so it still would make no sense.

Nate, honestly, it's pretty silly to suggest that one would only want to watch himself wanking if he's gay or bi. That would mean, also, that only would only wank in the first place if he's gay or bi. I mean, a guy wanking A GUY, eww, gay.

Besides, even without a mirror you ARE watching yourself as you do it, unless you close your eyes for the OH NOES A PENIS wontlookImstraightwontlookImstraight

I think the problem, Mal, is that "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" and while I may not see the jokes as "throwaway" you do, but that is where the basis of most of my argument (that I made while drunk, let us not forget) was that I did not believe that Bill Amend made "throwaway jokes" in his strips. Do I understand why you call them standalones and throwaways? I completely understand, the problem herein lies with our differences in taste (but in truth the Mastercard/Visa joke was pretty bad) and as far as I'm concerned, calling a joke "weak" is not the same as saying "I did not like this joke." as people make weak jokes all the time (usually in a sequence) either for breaking the ice, warming people up, or what have you.

Well, I'm done and I will take this as my heads up that if I ever read stuff that I can argue whilst drunk, I should nip it in the bud and just wait to sober up before talking

Fernie, I'm still going to have to disagree with you. Without getting into too much detail (because that's just impolite), I know I don't look at MYSELF when I'm having fun. I'm looking at the computer monitor, magazine, TV screen, or my own imagination.

I still maintain no one would watch themselves in the mirror unless they were at least bi or bi-curious, which there's nothing wrong with that, but let's be honest. If you're looking at yourself in the mirror what's the difference between that and looking at some other dude? You can say "Because it's YOURSELF" but that doesn't quite cut it. I touch all parts of my body in the shower because it's my body, but I wouldn't touch some other dude in a shower even though they have the same parts I do, because even if their body is similar to mine it isn't mine.

It just doesn't make sense. I look at my junk because it's necessary to shower or get prepared to do something else, not because I enjoy it. If I enjoyed looking at my own junk, then it's pretty apparent I'd enjoy looking at the junk of other dudes too.

I'm sure you'll disagree with me, and that's fine, I don't think I can really prove anything, and I don't really have anything riding on the argument, so this'll be the last I say about it. Although I will say, if lots of people get off looking at themselves in the mirror and they aren't gay or bi, then that one line from Chasing Amy where that guy asks that girl "So if you're a lesbian do you just look at yourself naked in the mirror?" doesn't make any sense.

Also as far as the "throwaway/standalone" discussion, I call them throwaway panels not because of the quality of the jokes, but because a newspaper can choose to "throw away" the top row of panels for space limitations. They are throwaway panels that contain a standalone joke, so that people who are getting the chopped down version of the comic can still understand it and not go "Hey, it seems like there should be more panels to explain the setup."

"It just doesn't make sense. I look at my junk because it's necessary to shower or get prepared to do something else, not because I enjoy it. If I enjoyed looking at my own junk, then it's pretty apparent I'd enjoy looking at the junk of other dudes too."

Does that make narcissists necessarily gay or bi-sexual?

If Kinsey or any of these recent sex studies are anything to go by, then everyone's somewhere in the middle between "completely gay" and "completely straight" anyways, so the discussion is moot anyways.

What the hell is this?

Welcome. This is a website called XKCD SUCKS which is about the webcomic xkcd and why we think it sucks. My name is Carl and I used to write about it all the time, then I stopped because I went insane, and now other people write about it all the time. I forget their names. The posts still seem to be coming regularly, but many of the structural elements - like all the stuff in this lefthand pane - are a bit outdated. What can I say? Insane, etc.

I started this site because it had been clear to me for a while that xkcd is no longer a great webcomic (though it once was). Alas, many of its fans are too caught up in the faux-nerd culture that xkcd is a part of, and can't bring themselves to admit that the comic, at this point, is terrible. While I still like a new comic on occasion, I feel that more and more of them need the Iron Finger of Mockery knowingly pointed at them. This used to be called "XKCD: Overrated", but then it fell from just being overrated to being just horrible. Thus, xkcd sucks.

Here is a comic about me that Ann made. It is my favorite thing in the world.

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