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5W Panel: The Ultimate Legion Roster (Part 2 of 2)

The Legion Draft Continues!

Periodically, we host a virtual panel session on a topic of note, capturing The Fifth World staff having a dialogue about a given subject. This week's topic: with whom would we populate a new Legion of Super-Heroes? This topic is just too big for a single panel post, so we've split it into two. Today, we pick up where we left off in Part 1 and talk about which other characters to let onto our team.

I actually think the Legion needs
some kind of tie to the modern day and the Superman mythos.

JL Franke

On reflection, it's also why I
forgot Kent Shakespeare.I was going to
put them together. 😏

Dvandom

Right, just not a commuter.

Marc Singer

But unless Superboy is actually a
young Clark Kent, I say go with Supergirl instead.

JL Franke

What about Supergirl?

Sean Fields

No Kryptonians for me. Just the S
as inspiration.

Chris Maka

I agree with Sean.

Marc Singer

For me, the Legion started as a
bunch of super-friends for the super-boy, kind of equivalent to Krypto or all
the other wondrous artifacts of his youth. It's part of their DNA.

Dvandom

Have a permanent resident of the
31C who is a survivor of the 21C.Or a
clone, a mystic echo, a "Titans: Rock Paper Scissors" style engram,
etc.Decoupled so that changes to the
present day one don't mess with the Legion.

Marc Singer

No, poor replacements are worse
than no presence at all. This was why Thunder never took, Andromeda, etc.

(I loved Laurel Gand when she first
appeared, but with a Supergirl back in continuity that whole character is kind
of pointless.) Go with the real thing or just avoid them entirely.

Sean Fields

I think you can still have a group
that starts because of Superman but the Superboy pal stuff kills me. Leave the
people of the past in the past.

Dvandom

The key problem with the Real Thing
is that we get the Pocket Universe conundrum all over as soon as someone in the
Superman Office decides to mess with things for an event.

Marc Singer

Then why doesn't that bring down
the Justice League?

Dvandom

Why would it?

Marc Singer

My point exactly.

Dvandom

But "Superboy is in the
Legion" meets "Superman was never Superboy" does cause problems.

Marc Singer

If the problem is that having a
younger version of the character creates potential timeline problems, just use
Supergirl instead. Problem solved.

Chris Maka

I'd still be afraid of future
interference from the Super office

Marc Singer

And if DC is foolish enough to
erase Supergirl from the continuity again (esp. now that she has a hit TV show)
well... then there was no hope for the Legion anyway.

JL Franke

Using Supergirl also gives DC
something to do with her whenever her book gets canceled (like it is now).

Marc Singer

When I think about these things I
can't worry too much about the internal politics of what the offices will do...
if they can't get their act together then the comics will suck regardless.

But thinking about what makes the
Legion tick for me, a connection to the Superman family and legacy is
definitely a part of that.

He doesn't have to be a constant
presence, and they may not even have any Kryptonian members, but the tradition
ought to always be there.

Sean Fields

Then do it like the show- send Mon
El into the future and he starts the Legion because he was inspired by
Superman, Supergirl and other heroes of the past while he was here.

Dvandom

They could find the Fortress of
Solitude and have Superman's interactive diary as an inspiration? 😏

JL Franke

What about Jon Kent?Or are we worried about him being written out
of continuity as well?

Marc Singer

All of these suggestions are much
more boring to me than actually having Superboy or Supergirl hang out with the
Legion!

Sean Fields

LOL!

I just don’t like Superboy is
probably what it is.

Marc Singer

(or Jon Kent, that's a great idea -
but it raises issues of his age relative to the Legionnaires we like to read
about. He's closer to Graym and Garridan, right?)

JL Franke

True, but it doesn't have to happen
in the present.It could be set a few
years down the road.

Marc Singer

(Though LEGION: THE NEXT
GENERATION, STARRING SUPERBOY AND VALIDUS does have a certain... no. No, never
mind.)

JL Franke

As long as they weren't inspired by
Damian Wayne.

Sean Fields

Damian Wayne Science Police vs
Superboy Legion?

Marc Singer

Kent, I loved. He had the most
classic Legion moment of any character in 5YL, and it was his first scene!

Sadly, it was all downhill from
there.

Chris Maka

Agreed, Marc

Dvandom

A lot of Kent's schtick depended on
"is he Superman or Superman's descendant?" toying around with
readers.

JL Franke

Well, we've gone through everyone
that's had multiple versions.The next
few will be sets of characters and vote on any you'd like to see brought into a
new Legion book.

Quislet and Tellus are great
examples of why writers shouldn't always give the fans what they say they want.

JL Franke

Did the fans want them?

Marc Singer

5YL Tyroc could've been great if
he'd ever been allowed to do anything - but that was a problem with a lot of
5YL.

Chris Maka

There's a later Tyroc I really
liked, I think the Threeboot Tyroc?

JL Franke

I have to admit I have a soft spot
in my heart for both Blok and Polar Boy.

Sean Fields

Tyroc was another black adult- he
became president at some point.

JL Franke

I don't think there was a threeboot
Tyroc.You may be thinking retroboot.

Chris Maka

v3 Polar Boy and Blok before he
became all mutated

Marc Singer

Some fans were vocal about wanting
more nonhumanoid members to make the Legion more SF. Which is misguided in that
a) the Legion are superheroes in an SF setting, not SF per se, and b) there was
nothing to Quislet and Tellus other than not being humanoid. More gimmicks as
characterization.

JL Franke

Marc: agreed.

Dvandom

I kinda like Five Year Gap Polar
Boy, although he didn't get any real screen time.

Marc Singer

Blok, White Witch, and Polar Boy,
definitely.

Dvandom

The idea that he was the last
torchbearer.

Chris Maka

I agree with Marc re: Quislet and
Tellus

Marc Singer

(Either original or retroboot Polar
Boy, the fanboy who makes good and not the comic relief sidekick.)

JL Franke

Marc, what's the draw of White
Witch for you?I was going to vote for
her, but I realized it was mostly for Blok to crush on her.

Marc Singer

I just like her in Great Darkness,
I guess. Magic characters are tough to write, though, esp. in team books.

I admit, I liked her as the head of
Sorcerors World in the Johns retroboot, with Blok as her guard/companion.

Probably a better place to stick
her without unbalancing the team.

Chris Maka

I like her personality and the Blok
crush, but I don't like magic characters in group books generally because they
become deus ex magica too often.

Marc Singer

Yup.

JL Franke

In the interests of moving forward,
let's take a look at 5YL intros.(Unless
anyone wants to shout out for Magnetic Kid.)

Marc Singer

I don't know if this will be popular or unpopular, but Magnetic Kid: terrible idea all around.

Chris Maka

Agreed.

Marc Singer

You already had one Cosmic Boy, and he didn't have any personality either!

So I'm hearing lots of nos on
SW6.Just a couple more heroes to
consider (from threeboot and retroboot)...

Marc Singer

You know, considering how many
classic Legionnaires never came back in the reboot (or didn't come back until
Abnett & Lanning brought them back in heavily doctored form), it is amazing
how many shit new members cluttered up the books.

Dvandom

Dragonmage was one of those
characters whose presence almost demanded "magic is going to be a bigger
deal in the setting going forwards," but that never really kicked in.

Like, they had a whole magic
academy thing that never really went anywhere.

Sean Fields

All these guys are terrible.

Dvandom

Redeemed Racist Earth-Man was
surprisingly interesting.

In that I was surprised he was interesting at all.

Chris Maka

Yeah, not a fan of any of these

Marc Singer

I liked most of the new Legion Academy
kids, esp. Chemical King.

JL Franke

Shooter appeared to be having acid
flashbacks when he created M'Rissey, the kid whose powers were dealing with
bureuacracy.

Marc Singer

But why on Earth (ahem) would the
Legion take Earth-Man in the first place? He'd just taken over the world, used
Sun Boy so badly it traumatized them, and he was a racist who hated about
3/4ths of the team. That twist made no sense.

Oh, and for some reason Shady starts
sleeping with him? That did not bode well for Levitz's final run on the Legion.

Chris Maka

Word.

JL Franke

Any second votes for any of the
folks who've gotten a single shout out?

Believe it or not, we made it all
the way through the Legion!

Marc Singer

I mean, taking the leader of a
fascist dictatorship who opposed everything they stood for? It was a bit like
"the Justice Society of America, now starring Adolf Hitler!"

JL Franke

Any final thoughts on what anyone
hopes to happen with the Legion if/when it's brought back at the end of DC's
current set of event comics?

Marc Singer

That's a tough question. I don't
think you can reboot the book again, because all the reboots have killed it.

Chris Maka

I liked the retroboot idea but its
execution got off the rails with Giffen's return

Sean Fields

More Catspaw stories?

JL Franke

Yeah, I think my one wish is for
Giffen to be kept away from the book if it returns.

Chris Maka

Heh.

Marc Singer

But I don't think you can just pick
up from the old continuity, because which one do you pick? Literally anything
you do with the team will piss off somebody.

Chris: yes, and Jerry: oh god, yes.

I will say that whatever DC does
with the Legion, I hope they start with a Legion that is already fully formed
and has some members who postdate the Shooter run.

Chris Maka

That would be nice.

Marc Singer

One of the classic signs of a bad
reboot is when the writer (usually Mark Waid) refuses to include anybody who
joined the Legion after he was 13.

JL Franke

I'd agree, Marc.And by suggesting this exercise, I'd go even
further and suggest combining the best aspects of each version of the
Legion.Why not satisfy and piss off
everyone at the same time?

Marc Singer

What would you say are the best
aspects of each version? I ask this as somebody who thinks the threeboot
doesn't have any.

JL Franke

Well, we actually pulled out at
least a couple threeboot versions as the one the majority of us like as we went
through the characters.In terms of
which storyline/universe to use, I'd have to suggest something resembling
OG/retroboot as it seems the most defined.

Marc Singer

I guess I meant more general
features of the version, not specific cast members.

JL Franke

Oh, sure.I agree that I would not want to spend every
month in the threeboot universe.But I
think transplanting, say, the threeboot Shady into the Levitz LSH universe
would work well.

Sean Fields

I like the atmosphere of the
threeboot as far as the legion representing kids kinda rising out of a repressive
society, although they generally did it in asshole teen ways.

Marc Singer

For example, the reboot had
consistent characterizations from the start, rather than adding them piecemeal
over a couple of decades the way the original Legion comics did. And while I
wasn't wild about most of the new members, they created a few good characters
who increased the diversity of the Legion, like XS or the Jazmin Cullen Kid
Quantum.

Dvandom

Adventure, hope, a future that is
bright but still contains danger.Seeking
to face evil as a positive choice, not because it's that or die.

Chris Maka

What Dave said

JL Franke

I agree.Well said!

Ok, I think we've got more than
enough material to make for a really long panel post. I'll write this up after
I finish the Legion tutorial we talked about. It will help new folks understand
all the terms we threw around here.

Chris Maka

Cool

Sean Fields

You're a good man for that.

Chris Maka

LLL!

Marc Singer

Writing a tutorial about Legion
continuity to explain a Legion panel is the most Legion of Super-Heroes thing
ever.

Chris Maka

LOL, that it is.

JL Franke

Perhaps I should try out for the
Legion as Summary Lad.

Sean Fields

LOL.

Marc Singer

Well, technically the most Legion
thing ever would be if Jerry pretended to turn evil and got us to vote him out
of the Fifth World because his precognitive girlfriend warned him that if he
didn't leave the website, one of us would die!!!

Except then it turned out it was
Chris's pet wearing a Chris suit.

JL Franke

I still mist up over the scene with
all of you standing around my farewell post each holding a copper rod.

Chris Maka

LOL!

Marc Singer

See you on Shanghalla, Jerry.

Dvandom

(Oh, and minimal to no crossovers
with the present day.Leave the
connection murky enough that no Big Crossover Event will screw with Legion
stuff.)

Chris Maka

YES!

JL Franke

Oh, and can we all agree to not do
a Legion Lost book?

Sean Fields

YES!

Chris Maka

No Legion Lost!

Marc Singer

The first one was alright, if only
because it did what every good Legion book should do: kill off Monstress.

JL Franke

😆

Dvandom

We don't need a Time Trapper level
thing, just...time travel is iffy under ideal conditions, and a millennium is a
lot of time for things to be forgotten or written off as fiction.

Marc Singer

We have enough for two posts here.
Hell, we could probably go Legion Week if we wanted to.

ooh...

JL Franke

Woo!Legion Week!

Marc Singer

💡

I could turn that old Facebook
thread we had about essential Legionnaires into a kind of adjunct to this
panel. [Note: Look for that Friday morning!]

JL Franke

Suck it Shark Week!

Sean Fields

I would write a Tyroc/Killmonger
comparison piece. 🙌 [Note: that post is not forthcoming.]

Marc Singer

YEAH!

JL Franke

Let's do it!

Good night everyone!Thanks for playing!

Sean Fields

night!

Marc Singer

LLL!

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