500 words a day on whatever I want

Model Minority + Bootstrap Myth = ?

If, like many racists, you assume that the Model Minority stereotype and the Bootstrap Myth are true, and add in demographic projections, then within a hundred years Asian Americans will become the professional, managerial and ruling class of the US. They will be about 14% of the country by then. That is more than enough: South African Whites did it on 9%.

By 2114, Asian Americans will have taken over Hollywood, science, technology, fashion and maybe like 90% of banks, businesses, news outlets, think tanks and universities.

Meanwhile, Whites will be a minority with a lock on nothing.

Unlike my Chinese Invasion posts, this one follows directly from what White racists assume about Asians, US society and what is acceptable behaviour from those in charge.

So:

Political power – whatever the colour of the candidates, the main parties are backed by Asian money. Asians play races off against each other.

Hollywood films – nearly all heroes are Asian. Whites characters tend to be buffoonish, poor, criminal or cardboard. “Good” Whites are loyal to Asians. That is why they often play servants or sidekicks. Sometimes they even give their lives, like that White girl Rue in the remake of “Hunger Games” (2112). That most writers, directors, producers and distributors are Asian has nothing to do with it. They just make what sells.

Asian Saviour films – the Asian hero helps White people, like that Nice Asian Lady who taught a poor White boy how to play football. So heart-warming!

Beauty – US Vogue, Playboy and New York Fashion Week mostly show Asian women. Asian beauty is universal. Science proves it! Look at all the single-eyelid surgeries! That most magazine editors, fashion designers, model agency heads and scientists are Asian has nothing to do with it. It is a matter of natural preferences, not racism.

White pathologies – Whites are their own worst enemy. Look at all the White-on-White crime in the news! Look at their high illegitimacy rate. No wonder White poverty and unemployment are two to three times the Asian rate. That Asians run 90% of businesses, determining hiring, firing, pay and promotion, has nothing to do with it. They favour Asians because they have higher IQs. They are not (gasp) racist.

Respectability politics – Maybe instead of whining about imagined Asian racism, Whites could act more like Asians and make something of themselves. You know, like get an education and work hard instead of partying and getting drunk all the time. Maybe for once they could even speak proper English (the class dialect of upper-middle-class Asian Americans). Or get their illegitimacy and crime rates down to Asian levels.

The police protect and serve Asians and their property, not White life.

Go back to Europe – If it were not for Asians, the US would be a hellhole like Broken Europe. Asians know best. The proof is in how wonderful America is – for Asians.

Just because Asians (East Asians, not e.g., Laotians) can succeed pretty well at being white doesn’t mean that whites will suddenly start acting like blacks… It also doesn’t mean East Asians can displace the YKW in the top eschelons of U.S. society., but the day when gentile whites are severely underrepresented at top schools is already here…

Whites are so attached to their guns, do you think it will play out like that? Maybe by 2114 Asian Americans will have already passed laws prohibiting whites from owning guns, at least legally. Only the well connected and the rich will be able to afford a permit for a gun. Poorer and working class whites, who for a couple centuries would have been trying to cast their lot with rich powerful whites instead of voting for / fighting for their class interests will suddenly be forced to cast their lot with those very whites which would no longer be so powerful.

re: remark by one not mentionable by name

white doesn’t mean that whites will suddenly start acting like blacks

They don’t have to act like blacks. They only need to act like whites. The problem would be – would they be able to act enough like Asian Americans? Maybe some. Not all.

from 2014 – 2064, a growing elite emerges that is descendant of those Asian-white marriages (maybe largely a Jewish-Chinese mix like Amy Chua’s kids) that has largely become atheist (even though they might have gone to Hebrew school or had a Bar (Bat) Mitzvah), but also sends their kids to Mandarin school. They become the model for the over-achievers and movers and shakers. But by 2064, Asians have become so numerous and not so exotic that they no longer attract white men for marriage (unless they are trying to marry “into” a connected family) and Asians are less attracted to whites also (since they have less power and less money too). The mixed white-Asians try to keep the money and power in the family and marry each other. Then, by about 2064, moneyed new immigrants come over from East Asia and start mixing with these 3rd and 4th generation Asian-white mixed descendants to gain access to the ruling class and political power. The descendants of the combination of these 2 groups could form the rich and powerful class by 2114. Some of them may have non-Asian surnames, but would be mostly Asian by ancestry.

My question is — what will happen to US history as popularly taught in schools? will it be rewritten?

We also did not address what would happen to blacks and Chicano-Americans.

Good post. The only problem I can find with it is the idea that if another group came into power the cross-hair would switch to the oppression of white people.

More than likely people of African descent will still be the boogeyman and most persecuted group.

Especially if Asians came into power. They have a strange tendency to worship white people and their way of life while also being antagonistic and hostile towards Africans. So at worst whites would just become the new model minority.

I think that some of the commenters criticising minor details and individual points of plausibility may be kind of missing the spirit of the parody. No, real life wouldn’t translate as simplistically as abagond depicts in his post, but a theoretical description of how the postulated shifting demographic would really affect society would not work so well as satire on attitudes that exist currently.

But actually, where Biff says that abagond implies that, “whites will suddenly start acting like blacks”, I can totally see whites expressing the concerns depicted in the manner depicted (or “whining” as the post puts it!). Whites wouldn’t act “black”, they would act defensive, vulnerable and possibly oppressed.

“buddhuu,
But actually, where Biff says that abagond implies that, “whites will suddenly start acting like blacks”, I can totally see whites expressing the concerns depicted in the manner depicted (or “whining” as the post puts it!). Whites wouldn’t act “black”, they would act defensive, vulnerable and possibly oppressed.”

Linda says,

The best place to look to see how real this analogy would be in real life is Hawaii.

White people in Hawaii complain about racism against them there all the time.

They recently had an election where the white candidate was complaining that his opponent was using “race” to galvanize the “native” electorate against him. (Obama was supporting the white candidate)

“Does the Aloha State actually have a bullying problem? If you are Caucasian and from the Mainland, you will certainly think so.

It doesn’t matter how long you live here, or if you were even born here. If you are white, locals will still call you a “haole”, a derogatory term that is Hawaii’s equivalent of using the “N-word”.

And the prejudice goes beyond name calling. White people are often treated with scorn. “Go back to where you came from”, seems to be the message. “You don’t belong here.” Sometimes it results in violence.

White children in our schools are harassed, intimidated, and physically abused. The last school day of the year in Hawaii, for example, is traditionally called “kill a haole day”.

Racism is as ugly in Hawaii as anywhere else, and is the cause of much of the bullying of school children and adults alike. Unless this underlying racist cause of bullying is addressed, efforts to stop bullying are doomed to fail.

To overcome racism we must be inclusive and tolerant of differences. The diversity of cultures and peoples must be embrace and celebrated to find synergy in our differences. We must realize that we are all “one”, with no group more important than any other.”

Isn’t it sad, that it takes living in Hawaii to wake white people up to what it’s like to live on the other side.

I love the whingeing they do when the shoe is on the other foot. Then it’s the ‘Can’t we all get along meme’. How’s this one?; ‘Lets respect every ones differences’. If I didn’t read the link, I would think that article was from the Onion or some other satirical magazine. Besides, payback’s a beyotch.

It started educational and then by the end it seemed like you were taking shots at the white, but I agree. Everything is white people’s fault, but what is the line between when one has to take personal responsibility and time healing for historical circumstances? And are we moving in the right direction?

The history will be rewritten sort of what the White Isreali’s did to “PrePalestine” history books. Asians will say America didn’t exist until they arrived, they will use wars and white on white crimes like The Slenderman Murders, Holocaust, The School Shootings, White Teen Murders, and White Mother Murderers as an example at how awful white America was during its rule. The books will mentions whites didn’t deserve the land, since they stole it so it as never theirs to begin with. The blacks and Chicanos will be treated as trash except for the Chicanos with paler skin who can pass or look somewhat close to an Asian. There will have to be a model minority group (buffer group) so the ruling Asians can say they are not racist and make an example out of them to try to look fair. I don’t know who the model minority group would be, probably Chicanos.

More people around the world need to treat white people how they do in Hawaii. Lol at the whites whining. What do the whites expect? You killed their queen and illegally, occupied and robbed their land in the 1950s. Ruined their economy, built hotel chains on their land, many of the locals now have to sell tourist crafts as you try to pick up their women as hookers. The locals aren’t going to kiss your butts when they were fine without you. Go figure.

White Americans should go back to that tony country pretending to be a continent called Europe. Americans are nothing more than displaced prisoners. Lol at least the Australians will admit their history.

@Gia, except the fact that Asians come in many different shades. I have family as dark as a Walnut to Sandy colored. I understand your grief about Hawaii, but ask yourself what do you have and not have and do you appreciate what you have? Stay on the happier side…

Australians admit they were prisoners who were shipped to an Island because the prisons were overflowing in England. American historians will not admit a majority of them were prisoners as well shipped to the Americas, although it is recorded, instead they pump their children’s heads with Pilgrim nonsense and out right lie to the Anglo Population here. They are in denial of their history. And of course Australians won’t admit to their raping of Aborigines in attempt to breed their ethnicity away and turn them white but they do admit their origins. No way am I praising any of them.

Asians have a range of colors yes, but many show love for paler skin. That is why lightening creams and bleaching pills sell. The paler skin Asians usually look down on the darker skin Asians and their dislike of darker skin like other groups. It is prevalent in India and in Africa and the United States.I will not pretend that if the country was ruled by Asians or anyone else, dislike towards dark skin (tan to brown to even darker) would magically dissipate. Lighter skin color preference is in nearly every culture, I stayed at my parents house for Christmas last year, my sad mother gifted me a skin lightening kit a few years back. She has been doing this ever since I was a young child. Her excuse?

“You are too dark unlike your lovely younger sister, you can’t get a nice lawyer white man that way. If your sister went with a white man her children would be so white!”

What one calls “grief “, is what another may call passion but thanks for the concern of my well being random internet user hahaha.

[…] If, like many racists, you assume that the Model Minority stereotype and the Bootstrap Myth are true, and add in demographic projections, then within a hundred years Asian Americans will become the professional, managerial and ruling class of the US. They will be about 14% of the country by then. That is more than enough: South African Whites did it on 9%.By 2114, Asian Americans will have taken over Hollywood, science, technology, fashion and maybe like 90% of banks, businesses, news outlets, think tanks and universities.Meanwhile, Whites will be a minority with a lock on nothing.- Click through for more – […]

Lol so if it were ruled by Asians, white mothers would try to persuade their kids to marry Asians like plenty of self hating ethnic mothers try to get their kids to date white men.

A white mother would tell her white daughter “thank god for your “perceived Asian feature), Asian men might ignore that you are so pale and white and marry you.” Asian men would be on pedestals and their would be movies of white women flinging themselves at them even if they are married and have kids. White mothers would buy their young daughters hair dye and things to alter their appearance. When company is over white mothers and aunts would mutter how inferior their full white children were and ask if they looked “half”. After hearing this, white girls and boys would go to the mirror and try changing their nose, eyes and lips some would get depressed, angry, or kill themselves, others would beg for surgery. Flipping the script is interesting. Who doesn’t remember pinching their nose and imagining it was slimmer as a kid?

Look at 1914. No one in their right mind would have dreamed that white men would be marrying Asian women like they do now. It would have been an impossible thought.
At that point in time, it would have made more sense to believe that Asians would eventually merge with the black “colored” population.

whites still have no problem becoming governor of Hawaii and I doubt white-dominated Hollywood is unpopular there

Yes, indeed, they currently have a white Anglo-American governor who was born and raised on the US mainland and he appointed a white senator to replace Inouye when he passed away.

Yes, I have seen whites whine about Hawaii, but most of the whiners were recent arrivals from the Mainland who had not yet adjusted to being in the Pacific Islands. They got labelled a mainlander, but so do Asians who go to Hawaii from the Mainland. But I believe In general, whites have no real problem getting access to the political and economic framework there and locally born people are taught US American culture and history as well.

What is more likely is that whites from the US mainland have a heightened sense of being white there. On the mainland, they didn’t even think about it.

You’re quote from the model minority stereotype posting is rather irrelevant to this post. It does not support your argument because under the scenario depicted, Asian Americans would no longer be the “model minority”. None of that “model minority” argument would be relevant in trying to support your assertion.

The current post depicts an America were Asian-Americans became the Norm

By 2114, Asian Americans will have taken over Hollywood, science, technology, fashion and maybe like 90% of banks, businesses, news outlets, think tanks and universities.

Meanwhile, Whites will be a minority with a lock on nothing.

So there is absolutely no need to hide where one comes from for Asian Americans if they become the new de facto default. It would be whites who may have more pressure to change their image.

Under the Model Minority post, one scenario is contemplated. Under this post, another one is. We could envision other plausible outcomes and the one I contemplated above in not implausible either. They are all thought experiments.

1. I agree about Amara. I am not happy with that picture either. I need to replace it.

2. Amy stays. She is a big believer in the Model Minority stereotype and the Bootstrap Myth. That she is standing in front of an American-shaped American flag is hard to beat. How can you get more Asian American and Bootstrappy and Model-Minorityey than that?

3. The Steven Meisel picture stays since his style of fashion photography is instantly recognizable as fashion photography. The pictures have to look like what they are at a glance. My reservations about the picture are not her clothes but the model since she is not Asian American. I do not want the pictures to look too foreign, so Meisel pretty much saved her.

Like Buddhuu said, I had to keep the anti-White Asian racism pretty close to anti-Black White racism for the post to work. If Asians did become the dominant US race, it would not be quite like that, of course: Asian/White history is not the same as Black/White history and there is a 100 years more of it still to come (with wildcards like war with China). BUT:

Since much of the racism in the post is structural and since Asians would take over that structure from Whites, Whites could well become the “new Black”. Whites should reform that structure while they still can. Otherwise they will be putting themselves at someone else’s mercy when they are no longer the majority.

AND, I am not sure if you noticed, but Whites are ALREADY like Blacks relative Asians: low IQs, high rates of crime and illegitimacy, etc.

C’mon, I recognize this post as satire – that is why my alternate version was rather satirical also – plausible, but satirical.

At this stage, I don’t think Asians will dominate America in the near future either. I really think you cannot speak for Abagond. You certainly cannot speak for me.

I agree that Abagond’s scenario is intended to be satirical (as was mine), but it is not 100% implausible. That is why I still think it is inappropriate to use the argument under the Model Minority post to justify an argument to justify any scenario or discredit any scenario envisioned for satirical purposes. Whatever will be the situation 100 years from now will be just imaginary contemplation.

I am sure it will not be exactly as we envision. Imagine what people envisioned in 1914 (before both WWI and WWII) about 2014.

Also, I am not sure that Asians would be totally unable to assimilate into American’s white mainstream. Cannot say for sure what would be possible by 2114. There have been hundreds of studies concluding that blacks could have assimilated into America’s white mainstream had they been allowed to. They have done it in other countries (eg, Mexico, Venezuela, Honduras, Argentina), as has the Asian population (eg, in Peru and Mexico). It certainly is possible.

Since much of the racism in the post is structural and since Asians would take over that structure from Whites, Whites could well become the “new Black”. Whites should reform that structure while they still can. Otherwise they will be putting themselves at someone else’s mercy when they are no longer the majority.
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Twack. Exactly. The white label has less to do with a person’s ancestry than it does with their acceptance of a pseudo caste system. Not to beat a dead horse but that it why I say race is not real because the power is not in the hands of the majority, it is in the hands of those who can convince the majority that they deserve it. So the label stays the same but the definition keeps changing depending who is on top. But because the system is supposed to be based on physical attributes and behavior, the interpretation of those attributes and types of behavior also have to change. And that is why agabond is able to do continuous posts on the cognitive dissonance that we call white supremacy.

AND, I am not sure if you noticed, but Whites are ALREADY like Blacks relative Asians: low IQs, high rates of crime and illegitimacy, etc.

Ha-ha, yes.

I guess we only have to wait until Asian Americans have a little bit more wealth so that institutions have to rely on an Asian American membership or contributions to stay afloat. And when whites can no longer “get in” (to clubs, schools, neighborhoods, professions, or media control) then it will be blamed on white pathologies, which are almost the same as black anyhow.

re: Japanese paternalism

Exactly.

You know this would be a good thing to add to the “Take Japan, For Instance” broken record. Japan is selectively used to justify white racism, but not white paternalism.

1. If Asian Americans were the ruling class, they would no longer have to concern themselves with assimilating or being accepted as White. As throughout this post, the shoe is on the other foot!

2. This post is a satire. It takes anti-Black White racism and recasts it as anti-White Asian racism to make it look nuts. It is just as nuts in its anti-Black White racist form, but people are so used to it, it is so normalized, that they do not always see that.

Amy Chua would probably disagree with what I said about politics. If Asians rose to the top in the US, it could easily lead to an anti-Asian genocide or the rise of a White dictator. White Republicans in the US are ALREADY undermining democracy – voter suppression, the Citizens United case, etc.

Imagine, for example, if Asians gain important and visible positions in media, government, banking, etc, on the eve of a disastrous war with China. They would get scapegoated as the enemy within, no matter how patriotic they were. It would only take a few bad apples, if that. That could turn into genocide as it did for Jews in Germany.

– Whites created the race pathology thing – it might come back to haunt them.
– Asian Americans must never forget that Yellow Peril lies right beneath the surface of American culture and ideology.. Don’t be fooled into thinking that you can ever be an honorary white.

Blacks enemies are themselves that’s why we don’t prosper like the Asians although we come from a right brain culture as well and have a rich culture. I’ve studied Taijiquan with many Asians masters, some were living legends, at the many Chinese functions I attended everyone of them proudly displayed Asian country and had no issues with it’s mythological characters, myth,mystic symbols, sages or many gods. Meanwhile African culture has to hide from the Christians, hide from the Muslims, hide from Whites disdain, hide from ourselves. We refuse to reclaim our ancestors traditions and are assimilated. Africans on the continent call us Americanized, it is because many of them in Africa no matter their Western faith still retain their traditions, so Africans are not assimulated like African diaspora but acculturated. West Africans pay homage to Western civilization in terms what they need to do to survive since the Whites rule many areas globally and in Africa. African diaspora is behind in accepting that we can’t be anything other than Africa and a connection to our people comes with accepting our place within Africa’s magnitude of traditions. Pick one.

We won’t unite as a whole by uniting along coalition leaders because our leaders are too egotistical, many sold out, bought, lukewarm and too inexperienced in executive level management and strategy. We need to change our apparatus or our mode of existence will always stay the same. We will continue to satisfied to be ruled over by others.

Its funny to me that Eric Holder the Attorney General is resigning and is hailing his fight or silly attempt to fight the national cover up of thousands of Blackmen gunned down by America’s white police power unarmed and unwarranted. In other words just they murdered these poor men to keep African Americans from developing socially, economically and politically by any means at their disposal. Doubt me? Look at the figures, almost 400 blackmen killed by American Police reported to the DOJ is only 14% of 76,000 law enforcement divisions. Just like on the Black doctors watch at Tuskegee Black law enforcement officials are aware, a part of and direct the genocide of their own people. Whites people are kicking out these traitors to their own when they all off a sudden like Eric Holder develop a conscious. Eric Holder retired because he’s sick of himself and the horrible things he’s done and been a part of as Attorney General of the United States. Anybody that doesn’t understand that the targeting of blackmen by America’s police begins at the Federal level is not grasping national politics and the history of this nation. Many are forgetting that white men didn’t infiltrate our social organizations to disrupt them but our Black law enforcement, our Black Freemasons, the Boule, snitches and informants.

We are denying ourselves the right to develop, socially, economically and politically, so we can determine our own fate and pace in the world rivaling surpassing even Asians.

I’m pretty sure, when the East Asians do assume power in the country known as America, they’ll write in the history books what fools the white race was, when having reached it’s zenith of wealth and technical acumen in late 1960’s, evidenced by white men standing on the surface of the moon – it turned it’s attention away from the heavens and spent the next 50 + years trying to uplift blacks of their nation, thereby going broke and having nothing to show for it, except for rotted out hulks of cities formerly occupied by their white builders, but now inhabited primarily by the black parasite class and the government employers who keep tabs on them.

No more moon landings, goodbye Mars expedition – hello housing projects Chapter 8, WIC, EBT anything else to keep a large portion of black America out of work and dependent upon white tax payers. Hello crips and bloods, disparate impact, crack cocaine, 70% out of wedlock births, multiple baby daddies and all of it on the welfare dime.

The Asians, having none of the white guilt of the previous power group, will likely let black Americans starve in place or become productive on their own. Probably the best thing to do for black America – tell it to grow up and allow it to fail.

Whites will be the minority, but will continue to get the most done. We’ll break off into smaller communities and liver closer to the earth, cooperating and prospering as we’ve done for millennia. You don’t see a lot of that in the African or American black communities, do you?

Asian hegemony will not be pleasant for much of black America, despite your hopes for a white reckoning – it will be black on the bottom – as it is the world over.

We’ll break off into smaller communities and liver closer to the earth, cooperating and prospering as we’ve done for millennia.

That might indeed be a solution. Give them reservations in isolated parts of Montana with a degree of self-autonomy. They can educate their children with grand stories from their white mythology of how they were once a great people.

Thanks, I am just tossing input around and I hope its relatable. Lol I can agree, I was told my nose was the only redeeming factor I had because it wasn’t stereotypical by some members of my family. It was spooky, they would praise my nose and than mention how I should start using the skin cream in the same sentence. Upon hearing this I would still pinch my nose as a kid and wish it were smaller. I was confused, in my mind at the time I thought it was the only “nice” thing so I was very proud but at the same time I thought just because it was not on a white body, it just wasn’t right. I thought this through 6-17. *****Cringe**** For comedy relief my aunt actually said “oh if I place your nose on your sister we would have the perfect niece!” What a world!

I think that could happen if Asian emigration suddenly grounded to a halt, but not if it continues at a high pace for the next hundred years. Will there be enough white men to marry all those Asian women? It can’t continue forever.

I look at places like Singapore and Philippines – yes, people who are mostly white with a touch of Asian do attract local Asian women, but if they marry and have kids, their kids will then be mostly Asian – like the elite classes in the Phils. and SG. That is what I mean by not being able to continue that ad infinitum.

“And yet, whites would have us think that “Asians” are all one race, despite Asians being racist against Asians (what?). I suppose it’s similar to how whites are racist against whites, like when the Germans massacred Jews during the Holocaust. And yet, whites are supposedly all one race, too. Race suddenly doesn’t make much sense, anymore.”

That problem always arises when you try to apply racial categories of one time and place to another, where completly different categories were in place. It shows the absurdity of race realism.

[…] If, like many racists, you assume that the Model Minority stereotype and the Bootstrap Myth are true, and add in demographic projections, then within a hundred years Asian Americans will become the… […]

Guys, I think Biff’s upset because he subscribes to the South African/Rhodesian theory of white minority status, i.e. “white minorities hold major power” and this thought exercise didn’t account for that.

Riverside Bob, too. He’s even trotted out the “things will go to shit without us around” defense – a standard issue argument against the zany idea of other ethnic groups matching or surpassing the white man’s inherent greatness.

Personally, I believe that by 2114, America will finally get itself shoulder-checked by an up-and-coming military power (most likely China), which will finally send it spiraling down into the same sort of empiric decline as experienced by Great Britain. America will still hold on to its “first world” status, but it won’t be able to project power militarily, just economically and culturally (although that’ll fade in due time, too).

Someone mentioned dark skin being a despised attribute among Asians. You can thank countless centuries of the white European image broadcast as the symbol of power and wealth for that one. Swap the Euro image for dark bronze skin and you’ll see scores of Asians darkening themselves up.

@Sangurine

African diaspora is behind in accepting that we can’t be anything other than Africa and a connection to our people comes with accepting our place within Africa’s magnitude of traditions. Pick one.

All well and good, except for the assumption that black Americans must tap into someone else’s culture and traditions yet again, as if we don’t have one of our own. Sure, we can embrace African culture, but it won’t be ours, but theirs.

We have to recognize that, in the grand scheme of things, we are on our own here. Sure, we can gather allies who share our interests, but we’re working all by our lonesome. We’re still finding ourselves, defining ourselves – even under the relentless assault of others defining us, for their own goals. We are centuries removed from African culture – it’s time we started creating, defining and embracing our own.

I think they will be white. As in the case of almost all daughters of Asian women married to white men, the odds are high that Amy Chua’s daughters will marry white men. What happens to the sons of such interracial couples is less clear. They could wake up to the unfairness of society when they are emasculated as Asian men or they could go the way of Elliot Rodger. I am not getting my hopes up.

Similarly to how Native ancestry is regarded by whites, Asian ancestry might come to be regarded as “cool” or “fashionable”. There will be no value to being an actual Asian but being a white person with Asian ancestry could possibly become a prized novelty. For example, Asian men are considered to have zero sexual value, but white men with Asian ancestry like Keanu Reeves are exoticized and obsessed over by women.

As long as marrying into whiteness is seen as the fast track to comfortable upper-middle/upper class living. There’s a good reason why you don’t see your average Kentucky red neck shacking up with an Asian woman.

Elliot Rodger was a great case of racial self-selection in action – constantly and consistently deemed not good enough to ascend into Whiteness, but absolutely unwilling to embrace Asianhood. He could have flipped the whole damn table over by trying his luck with black women, but instead he chose to remove himself from the field of play in the most violent and selfish manner possible.

As for Asian ancestry, it’ll become fashionable in a few generations, when that white person suddenly rediscovers his/her Asian great-grandmother and spends the next few years stereotypically memory laning through her culture like a sanitized amusement ride. It’ll be the proverbial trinket you can talk about while sipping on your mocha grande at Starbucks.

As long as marrying into whiteness is seen as the fast track to comfortable upper-middle/upper class living. There’s a good reason why you don’t see your average Kentucky red neck shacking up with an Asian woman.

Yeah, that is why I think the value of marrying into whiteness to propel Asian-American women into the comfortable upper middle class will fade. As numbers of Asian-Americans increase and their incomes outpace whites, the economic value of whiteness might not keep up. (The political value might persist). We can even see signs of it happening now. The rate for Asian women to marry whites is not increasing as fast as it was 1990-2010.

I have seen the occasional white red neck marrying an Asian women, but most of those women came directly from overseas, either as war brides or from poorer areas in Asia. Marrying any white American is a fast track out of poverty. But, that same man will not be able to attract the educated upper middle class Asian American women. At that point in time, Hapa men will not look so undesirable.

I actually believe that the Asian women -white man marriage rates cannot increase forever. They probably have already plateaued. I think Eurasian / Hapa women will continue to marry whites, but Eurasian / Hapa men will gain more access to Asian women as the number of acceptable white men decrease relative to the increase in Asian women and white women continue to reject Eurasian / Hapa men.

I see this happening already. My cousin’s Chinese-Irish son married a Pakistani American. My godmother’s nephew (who is Filipino/German/English) married a Vietnamese American. I found a blog of a Taiwanese American mother married to a Hawaiian born 4th generation Japanese-German American father (https://mandarinmama.wordpress.com/about/). I think we will see more of this in the next generation – something that was unheard of in the prior generation outside of Hawaii.

In 3 generations we will have an increasing number of multiethnic multiracial Asian Americans. People like Mark Dacascos will be commonplace.

@bms103

Yes, as I mentioned above, it is slowing down. In any case, if European immigration does not keep pace with Asian immigration, at some point there will not be enough white men to satisfy all the Asian and Hapa women looking for husbands. They will have to turn to the (by that time, significantly sized) Hapa / Eurasian male population to find spouses. And their children will be mostly Asian. I think the trend will be more noticeable in about one more generation. And that will be the start of a true Pan-Asian American identity which has never really existed before (at least not in the 20th century) outside Hawaii. But it will be different from the multiracial Asian pacific Island identity found in Hawaii.

From my own experience I greatly agree with what you are saying. My Chinese friend that is half white half Asian asked me a few months before she left if I thought her son looked Asian. She constantly asks if her sisters kids look Asian as well. When I say yes she gives off a little smile. When I say no (in regards to her sister kids) she seems to be a little sad about it and says “yea they look like their dad.”

Sharina
My Chinese friend that is half white half Asian asked me a few months before she left if I thought her son looked Asian. She constantly asks if her sisters kids look Asian as well. When I say yes she gives off a little smile. When I say no (in regards to her sister kids) she seems to be a little sad about it and says “yea they look like their dad.”
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You know, I think the definition of “Asian male” is changing, and will mean something in 2114 that is quite different to how you are thinking.

I think Asian Americans will still be here in 2114, but the typical Asian American in 2114 will be of multi-racial multi-ethnic descent, still appearing more or less Asian but with no orientation to a particular Asian ancestral country. 30% will have European surnames, albeit mostly Asian by descent.

Like late 20th Century African-Americans
– they will be mixed, about 76% Asian, 18% white with some Native and African Ancestry too.
– The Asian portion will be mixed up. Do not be surprised to find an Asian American with 20% Chinese, 20% Filipino, 20% Korean, 20% Vietnamese and 15% mixed European white.
– 30-35% will trace their Y-DNA back to Europe, while 90% will trace their mt-DNA back to Asia.
– Asians will not disappear and amalgamate into the white population, but there will be more whites with a small about of Asian Ancestry (eg, 1/16 Asian)
– It will be difficult, if not impossible for non-Asian Americans to tell the difference between an Asian American (and this goes for males too) who is 80% Asian and 15% European from one with parents who are both “full” Asian
– Asian American males will include both mixed multi-racial multi-ethnic Asian men as well as “full Asian” men. Asian American women will not make much distinction between them (except for the ones with a European sounding surname and one with an Asian sounding surname) – in either case, it won’t make much difference as the ancestor with that surname would be 4-5 generations back and the person may only be 1/8 that ancestry.

Whatever the trend you’re describing is, where I live is probably the last place you will see it.

I REALLY disagree with you on this.

I think you are looking at a very brief and limited microcosm of what is going on (ie, missing the forest for the trees). The situation has been transformed completely in just 50 years. When I was a child, I did not know a single family with a white husband and Asian American wife (who was born in, or at least grew up in the USA). The only ones were military men who brought back War Brides. Most marriages between Asian Americans with non-Asians were with Asian men, and there weren’t many of them either. WHEW! Look how times have changed.

Take a look at Hawaii, Philippines, Singapore, Macau,etc. What happened there!

And the situation that you “think” you are witnessing now will not last. I would not be surprised if you see something else take its place in one more generation. (Something similar to what is described above.)

A year ago I had a different perspective. We have a festival here each year featuring traditional dances etc. Last year I saw a ton of Chinese women and all with white men. They were all too happy to drag them around. This year is where I saw the change. It was as if the white man asian wife was non existant.

Who do you notice with white men more? Asian women across the board or one particular group?

I personally never implied or insinuated that part-white Asians would look down on their less mixed cousins.

And personally, I am deeply against any kind of looking down on someone else for that reason.

And I don’t think that is the driving force (although it might exist for some, eg, Elliot Rodger types). What I suspect may be more common is that Asian women might be attracted more to men that are more mixed, esp. with white. It will be Asian women who will place more a value on that.

The US Census Bureau technically considers a marriage between a Chinese and an Indian to be a marriage between two “Asians”, though oddly, no one I know has ever considered that as marrying within their race. Weird!
——————————————————————————————

Yup.

and you know what?

You aint seen nothing yet. Give it another 20 years when they start to really understand DNA, what it is and how it works.

If Asian men with white ancestry have “more value”, then unmixed Asian men have less value.

I think that by 2114, the vast majority will be mixed already. What might emerge is that those, with say 75-95% Asian ancestry might be treated slightly differently from those with 50-75% from those with 25-50%, not too much unlike black people in the late 20th century.

For example, in 2114, a person like Bruce Lee, with a Eurasian mother and a Chinese father, would he feel more compelled to emphasize that he is Asian or that he is part white? Or will he be disenfranchised (or alternatively, given special privilege) based on his perceived phenotype. Will a person’s surname make a difference? who knows?

I remember in the 1980s I met a woman from Hawaii who had a Chinese mother and a Chinese-Hawaiian – Irish father, who had a chinese name and passed as Chinese- American.

It will depend on which group emerges as more elite, I guess. Hard to contemplate what the world will be like in 100 years.

A few years ago, my manager was a total racist, sexist and homophobe: a model bigot. When he stepped down due to stress and hypertension the colleague who took over the role was a Vietnamese lady (who self-identifies as Chinese). She has been in the job ever since and has done it much better than the white bigot ever did. Within six months of her assuming the role he had resigned from the company altogether: not because of anything in her behaviour, but because he could not tolerate reporting to a woman – especially a non-white woman who was more competent than him.

You take the current Model Minority political strategy of race relations as a given since you grew up with it. You even told me that you thought it was a fact of life. I see it something that that only grew in importance since the mid 1980s.

I think your perspective does even go back that far. It barely goes back to the 1990s.

And you think of Asian Americans as the children of brain drain immigrants in certain suburbs where they are fairly numerous. Those are a large chunk of Asian Americans, but most Asian Americans are still not children of brain drain and most do not live in those communities, (yet still get lumped in with model minority some way or another).

Yes, we can see some trends developing and going away, but some of the things you see as “fact” I see as a phase.

Yellow Peril is another matter. It can be traced back at least to the Civil War. So, I do think that will likely endure in some form even beyond your lifetime. But even that may change depending on how Asian and Latino Immigration continues and how the enlargement of whiteness scenarios play out. If whiteness is not enlarged, it will start to have less social value.

Why don’t you try this as an exercise. Try to imagine the prognosis for race relations in the USA based on the perspective of someone in 1914 – just as WWI broke out and before The Birth of a Nation hit the screens.

Um… you’re wrong, Abagond. African immigrants are America’s “model minorities”. Asian American immigrants take second place. I’m surprised that in writing such a detailed article, you got something so fundamental wrong.

@sharinalr: It’s a misconception. By definition of what entails a “model minority”, I repeat, it’s African American immigrants, seconded by Asian American immigrants. A lie repeated many times, by those ignorant, does not make it truth.

Also, your link proves the point as the “Model Minrority” term being applied to Asians takes up most of the focus of the wiki entry. Ask yourself why would such Africans would be considered an “invisible” model minority? They are not literally invisible are they? But they are “invisible” to the “mainstream” society because of the racist stereotype against blacks in general.

Why would you provide a link that proves my point? Please read or reread your source. It is not about what the definition of model minority is it is about what people see as the model minority. Even your link says that in the section about invisible model minority.

In any case, if the Model Minority stereotype ever goes away, it would only be because the Yellow Peril stereotype pushed it aside.

This is more of an example of thinking more long term. I’m not sure what will happen, though.

It could go away also in the satirical example in this post. In any case, I think it will change.

When whites become 40% of the population, maybe whites will be the new model minority, esp. if they are not expanded to included white Hispanics. I doubt it, because white pathologies will be more exposed when whites are less than 50%.

@abagond: So you’re talking about the stereotype people have of who they tend to suppose are the #1 model minorities, rather than who are the actual #1 model minorities in reality? If so, it would have been better if you had clarified that originally.

@Kiwi: Stereotypes mean nothing. I’m talking about statistics. The facts. and the facts say that African American immigrants do better than Asian American immigrants. By a close margin, but it still dispels the inaccurate stereotype that Asian Americans and/or Asian American immigrants are at the top.

@ks: “Model Minority” is just a term to describe the group of people in a particular society that are the most educated, have the lowest unemployment, and/or etc. If someone thinks it’s Asians, all they’re doing is ignorantly stereotyping Asians. Recognizing a true “model minority” out of statistics is not noxious and racist within itself. With regards to your second post, I’ve already addressed that. The general public may stereotype that Asian American immigrants are America’s model minority, while the statistics tell another, lesser known, but still valid story. All that matters is that African American immigrants are successful, and whatever racism they may encounter in American, British, etc. society is not having much toll on their success. That’s pretty profound. You can’t control how others feel about you, so focus on what you can actually do for yourself and in your world, especially in generally free, first world countries, where you have the opportunity.

@sharinalr: Again, there’s a difference between a stereotype and reality. All that truly matters is reality. I had read the entire source. It doesn’t change my point.

The point is that it does not matter whether it is true or not. You arguing what is reality and what is a stereotype is ridiculous and a deflection from the reality that Americans do not see Africans as the model minority. This is fact as presented in my source and yours. You just fail to grasp that tiny concept and frankly is is not rocket science.

My goal was never to change your point, but it is a moot one considering.

Not only is there a failure to distinguish Africans from African Americans, but many believe all Africans still live in huts. Many believe that Africa is in shambles and blacks are not smart enough to fix their own continent let alone be of the intelligent enough to excel in American schools and society.

The azz backwardness of it all is that even with African Immigrants doing so well they still seek to put the Face of model minority on Asians. I am curious on why that is.

I think the public opinion und sub-saharan Africa is just lagging behind 15 to 20 years. In the late nineties the “failure narrative” didn’t seem that unreasonable, especially as previously leading countries got into trouble. The general opinion on Africa is certainly still shaped by that, but in recent years I have seen many mainstream news reports, that showed some African nations in a favourable light, especially in the South Nambia and Angola and also Nigeria. The whole Ebola story again fits in the old narrative and it’s certainly not wrong to say that Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea are among the weaker African nations.

What I meant is that the line between unmixed Asian men and Eurasian men might get more blurred. In 2114, we probably will have people spanning the range from 5% Asian to 100%. There won’t be a firm line between who is Eurasian and who is Asian when people like Bruce Lee and Mark Dascascos become the more common form of Asian American man, who have at least one Eurasian parent.

I think as Eurasian females become more numerous, there will be more for white males will choose from. Asian women will have to increasingly choose Eurasian males as partners as the pool of desirable white men decreases and are drawn to larger numbers of Eurasian women. Both will cause more Asian ancestry to enter the white population and more European ancestry to enter into the Asian population.

If you saw being Asian American as more a cultural thing, then you should be less upset if Eurasian men marry Asian women and having children that identify as Asian. Are you saying that if a Eurasian is, for example, aware of Asian American history and politics, observes certain Asian cultural practices, learns Asian languages, etc. that they are less entitled to Asian American identity than otherwise. In fact, I find that those multi-ethnic Asian Americans (eg, 1/2 Chinese, 1/2 Japanese, etc.) who might be “fully” Asian but really less into their ancestral cultures than many Eurasians who are visibly mixed, and are just into “forgetting” about Asian American history even more than those who are not multiethnic.

As for Asian men, I think that in the short run (next 30 years), “unmixed” Asian men. may find that they compete not only with white men, but increasing numbers of Eurasian men also for Asian women. But after that (ie, after we have millions of 3/4 Asian men growing up who pass as Asian), then the line between mixed and unmixed will be further blurred. They may collectively identify as Asian male and find they have more in common than in competition.

But the discussion raises an idea for me.

The white fear of blacks and Asians is different in this regard. Whites fear Asians because of Yellow Peril. As long as mixing with Asians does not enrage that fear, then they can mix with them. But Whites fear that marriage and children with blacks will put their family into a permanent social underclass which is a legacy from slavery.

Males carry the fear of Asian peril more than females. I have seen cases where white parents are alarmed if their daughters dates even a EURASIAN man with a European surname, but seem not too upset if their son dates or even marries an Asian woman (despite it means having an Asian grandson). It is interesting how Yellow Peril fear is sex-based.

But I think Asian parents will not be so upset if their daughter marries a Eurasian man. And they will not really be upset at all if their son marries a Eurasian woman (provided her Asian half ethnicity is compatible with the parents in-law).

Africans are closer proximity to Europe and have way more interactions. I’ve heard Nigerians, Ghanese, and other groups learn and speak English much faster than typical immigrants. That’s just my observation of course. And this translates to doing better in many cases.

Thanks for providing that source. I have not read it yet but it should be good.

@Kartoffel

Unfortunately I have not seen any mainstream media paint them in a favorable light. A few years ago I was just awaken to the fact they they no longer live in huts or was starving thanks to some individuals on this blog. Of course I blame that lack of knowledge on myself as I could have and should have done better research. I think there is a major reason why the stereotypical view of Africa is still being perpetuated. It is to convince blacks in America that they have a luxury here, but I believe also to scare away any potential support to Africa in regards to financial and economical growth. I could be wrong about one or both of those, but I find it odd that such an image is the one that keeps being perpetuated and circulated even with evidence to the contrary.

” it’s certainly not wrong to say that Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea are among the weaker African nations.”—I agree that it is not wrong, but I have to wonder if there is a belief that all areas can live to the standards of what is the ideal. I have to wonder if we all should. There is something nice about the simplicityof certain things and places.

The point is that it does not matter whether it is true or not. You arguing what is reality and what is a stereotype is ridiculous and a deflection from the reality that Americans do not see Africans as the model minority. This is fact as presented in my source and yours. You just fail to grasp that tiny concept and frankly is is not rocket science.

My goal was never to change your point, but it is a moot one considering.”

Exactly right. Melody’s just engaging in a weird form of egotism by pretending that “Model Minority” should be used as a literally descriptive term rather than how its actually used, as a silly stereotype, and applying it to certain African immigrants from certain African countries. I mean c’mon, trying to claim credit for being, I assume, part of an “invisible! model minority” is a rather strained form of patting oneself on the back. It reminds me of the weird “logic” Amy Chua used in her last book which was rightfully widely panned by critics.

Oxford Dictionary, the dictionary that Abagond prefers to use for this blog (and which tends toward UK English), defines “intern” asto put somebody in prison during a war or for political reasons, although they have not been charged with a crime

There is no limit on the time that someone be interned.

What country are YOU from? Does the version of English where you come from not use that word?

@RiversideBob
I hate to break it to you but the last I checked white people took in the majority of government benefits. You can argue about it being an issue that needs to be addressed but that isn’t what you are doing. You’re simply being a racist prick and because you are unable to see past the color of a persons skin you only notice the black people on welfare and have no clue about the vast numbers of white people on welfare, white people smoking crack, and white people committing crime.

Please don’t deflect your simple misunderstanding of how a particular word is used in English by derailing with “The racists use words to hide their abuse and mistreatment of nonwhite people.”, ie, making it about someone else and then retorting with foul language.

Just simply say “Thank You” that some people can help clarify your understanding about the use of a particular English word. Then we can get back to the topic and talk about matters that are really relevant to this post.

Whites also don’t see Asians as a model that they themselves should emulate. Instead, Asians are held up as a model for blacks to emulate. That’s why Asians are the “model minority”. They’re models to other minorities, not to whites.

Looks like you finally got your epiphany. The “model minority” stereotype is anything but fact (ie, what you believed to be fact while you were growing up), but a form of political control.

Likewise, the bootstrap myth is a form of control also.

Look at how it works:

1. For poor whites, they can revel in the fact that at least they are not black, and therefore not a permanent underclass. As long as blacks are somehow lower than them, then they are not at the bottom. In fact, if they try hard enough, they might be able to become wealthy too. They are fed the bootstrap myth cr@p too.

2. For middle class white descendants of post mid-19th century European immigrants, they eat the bootstrap myth up like syrup, esp. if their grandparents were “poor”. They also eat up the Model minority stuff too, as they point out other non-whites who were persecuted “in the past” are “making it”, why can’t blacks. Besides, all that racism stuff is so “PAST TENSE”.

3. Asian Americans are fooled into thinking that they have a secret that blacks just don’t want to learn. Although they might condemn white pathologies, they are also more concerned that they make a good impression to whites.

4. For blacks, they are told it is a matter of respectability. Just learn to act properly, or at least learn from Asians.

All along, wealthy, powerful, but racist whites are patting themselves on the back.

Eh…..its kind of iffy; on one hand the white people who culturally have a tendency to go to college etc…..anyways will still do so.

Southerners and the Scotch-Irish would stay right where they are on the economic scale.

That and many cultures praise pale skin…..means plenty of non-pale Asians will be willing to marry whites to get that skin. And believe or not; it wasn’t interacting with whites/Europeans that created it, they had it before we did.

Value of whiteness; asian men are becoming more of a commodity and when the economic status upgrades the lesser tendency of asian men to abuse their wives, rape their women or commit violent crimes will start making them look better compared to whites.

Reality is; intermixing would probably decimate the white population to almost nothing, kind of like black people in mexico.

One of the things I’ve thought about lately is…..Asians are half of the worlds population, than why aren’t half our immigrants to the USA asian?

Asians act as bad as whites; is an iffy scenario. Sure bigotry would exist if Asians rise to power but aren’t most Asian countries socialistic in nature? Then factor in how asians seem to be going more liberal nowadays and I suspect Asians rising to power would do a lot to fix poverty and other problems in the US.

Indian as Asian; technically Indians are Caucasian. So it is dating out of the race if they date Chinese. Sure Indian is in Asia but so is Russia and the middle east and I’m pretty sure most people don’t consider arab sorts to be asian.

African Immigrants as the model minority.

Actually; not really talked about but off-hand people don’t seem to have a problem with African immigrants.

Elliot Roger got rejected by women because he was a pathological weirdo; he had to find a justification for his failings and inability to get with the ladies so he went with racism. It couldn’t have been his fault, and so when he saw Asian men who were getting white ladies it drove him crazy. How could an ugly person from an inferior race do better than him? It went against his ideas of racism for his failure in life and was a strike against his ego that he couldn’t handle.

By 2114, whites will not only remain a minority, Asians probably would have already outnumbered whites in California, maybe 25-30% by then? Latinos, mostly Chicanos, will make up 1/2 the state. By then, whites will only be about 15% of CA and blacks maybe only 5%.

In such an environment, it will be impossible for Asian women to continue to marry whites at any large rate. UNLESS, they have managed to make Latinos white by then. Or if they move to one of the remaining white majority states in the upper midwest or upper New England.

If the govt remains democratic, some of the institutions will have changed by then. Unlike the early 20th century, when many large areas of the USA, even some states, were still majority black (ie, in the South), the only way whites could maintain control would to disenfranchise blacks. Will Asian Americans let whites do that to them, esp. after the majority of Asian Americans become native born again, and better educated than the whites?

I don’t think it was any coincidence that Congress has refused to let Washington, DC to have any voting representation in either the House or Senate.

And many of the Asian Americans will be multiracial / multiethnic (like you find in Hawaii already). I think it will look quite different from the California of today.

I live in Southern California and I must admit Asian-Americans are still not in “corporate American leadership” positions. You’ll find one or two Asian-American women in high-level positions here and there but never will you find Asian-American men or Asian-Americans in significant numbers in high-level employment positions, which is unfortunate.

Interestingly, outside of teaching (health science) I host annual summer fitness boot camps. Many of my clients are black and Latino, but a few are white and Asian. There are these two particular female clients who are Chinese-American and Korean-American that decided to do my year-around 1-on-1 personal fitness program (by the way, they are not overweight by any means, they just want to get really fit). I’ve been training them for about five months. The fitness client who’s Chinese-American is a college graduate with a master’s degree but, unfortunately, is having difficulty finding a steady job. She works as a temp on jobs but never gets hired permanently. It’s really frustrating her. She says our workouts keeps her mind focused. The other day she said something very interesting. She said that in China she would have been employed, especially with her level of education. Also she said that in America it’s still difficult for Asians/Asian-Americans to fit in and prosper as “Americans”. I found her words very touching because so often white people play on the “Asian as the model minority card” when dealing with blacks and Latinos (especially here in California). I asked her if she believes in the model minority stereotype and she said “hell no”. She said until Asian-American people become recognizably Americans the ‘model minority’ stereotype will continue to offend Asian-Americans.

Most of the hiring is actually done by women, so its not white men who are more comfortable with Asian women, its white women.

Which isn’t to say white men are particularly comfortable around Asian men. Just not the primary culprit here.

Kind of the same thing with black people isn’t it…….most of the hiring type jobs got taken over by women and now black women are starting to notably outdistance black men in jobs aren’t they?

Of course; Asian women being able to use sexuality to get places Asian men can’t certainly doesn’t help either.

I suppose that applies with black women as well.

Thinking about a US w/substantial or majority Asian population.

It might just become somewhat more like South America.

Mostly people of colored descent but with a tiny minority of white people at the top.

Everybody below the uber powers will mix, the rich white people will stick to their own kind and mostly breed with other white people, because they want to stick to money and money right now is mostly in the hands of whites. Having most of the resources and connections all the big money type jobs will automatically go to them and their friends……

The aesthetic standard has pretty much already been made and since other cultures have similar ones for one reason or another might just keep getting reinforced by immigration.

That being said; our society does seem to be beginning to try to embrace multi-culturalness so who knows maybe by the time Asians are a majority larger numbers of ethnicity will already be showing up on TV etc…..

Many, maybe most white characters are buffoonish, cookie cutter or stereo type there’s just the odd well written character and the fact that we also get to be heroes that balances it out. It really would take very little change for this to become true.

I mean think about John Candy and the Cable guy, every sitcom ever all the white people are basically cartoonish idiots.

Even movies usually have one white person or one small group being the smart ones and everybody else being dumb.

Political Power: The moment Asians get serious money; yeah they will by default become more influential in politics.

Asian Savior Films:

Well; discounting the Karate Kid or any martial art movie were the white kid gets an older master to teach them.

Have to wonder if Asian Savior films would be about them teaching white basic math, how to be good students, learn business skills and how to raise their kids and learn discipline. Also show them how a society functions so as to be civilized and not all criminal, violent and raping like white people are.

Beauty:

Statistically, Asian women are already rated the most beautiful and that’s with the media etc……being against them. God help every other race of women once the mass media starts going their way.

White Pathology:

White People do have issues……racism being the most obvious among them but there are others.

Considering how white people are; I suspect if asians start doing well and taking up colleges white people would not go as much or quit.

Not take classes as seriously in the first place etc……basically it wouldn’t really be a lie or racism. White people would be less educated and with lower IQs and pursue higher education less.

Hell; the way its going I suspect men as a whole might start avoiding higher education as “effeminate” in a few decades from now. But that is another topic.

Go Back to Europe:

Works on the assumption that Asians will run america as poorly as Anglo-Americans did. Even with bigotry and racism that’s not a given.

“Of course; Asian women being able to use sexuality to get to places Asian men can’t certainly doesn’t help either.”

— V-4

I disagree. Asian women (in general) don’t use their sexuality to get to places. Let’s not confuse Asian women with their Western female counterparts. Asian women are placed in positions because of the stereotype – submission. From what I’m told by my Chinese client it’s not in Asian men’s nature to submit, it’s expected of the woman to submit. Many whites hold firm on this “submission” stereotype of the Asian woman. I truly believe that the few Asian women we see in higher positions in Corporate America has a whole lot to do with complying to the rules. The same goes for Asian women who have white male partners.

I agree. California is already in the 2060s racially speaking, halfway to 2114, but it still has a White power structure, as you point out. Proof to me, if I still needed it, that the Model Minority stereotype and the Bootstrap Myth are self-serving lies.

There’s been a few comments floating around on this and asian woman/fetish/whatever that’s been a little trifling but that’s not important right now. Regarding hiring in the tech sector, this is a byzantine process. I used to work for american express in tower 5 (as a computer support ‘temp’ or contractor) in like 95-96 and for the regular employees there was one battered old ps2 machine that hooked into some type of police database and once we had to work on it, and security escorted us to get us into its own special room, it was a harbinger….
Now, ‘hiring’ is certainly a loaded term. Gone are the days of stumbling in 20 minutes late with a coffee stained and crumpled resume and scoring a ‘real’ job.
Typically, you clear the first round online, as many of you are surely aware, with no centralized database of workers’ credentials and cv or work history, it’s a nightmare, for me, if i deigned to reenter ‘corporate culture’ as a drone (and my criminal background would cast a long shadow over any such chances) it would take upwards of an hour to complete the opening dance of basic profile information.
Add on to this that ‘HR’ has become a ivory tower on its own: gone are the days of the sliding shelves and clerks sneakernetting manila folders — most HR employees will be competent in SAP which apparently you can’t even get into class for without a master’s degree, so, if the gods smile and you actually get a first interview… i mean you can dither and say all this and that about people and stuff but you are just a node in an extremely expensive data tree before during, and nowadays not so much after the corporate employment thing. Dont take it so personal. They dont. Nor does the ibm xseries or hp server running sap. Have a nice day.

Also curious how ‘east asians’ consider south asians in the us taking somewhat more (stop me if im generalizing) franchise oriented opportunities ie white american corporate partnership stuff but not considered ‘white’ by ‘white americans’ proto indo european intricacies not evaluated by visual phenotypically biased ppl… there is some trends there and i think it could bear adult rational discussion

The Karate Kid is NOT an Asian Saviour Film at all. If anything, at least for the original series, it is a White Saviour film with a magical POC (Asian). In the final version, the protagonist is a black American character, which in this case is an American savior film.

It is like “Ghost” with the Magical Whoopi Goldberg or “Bruce Almighty” with magical Morgan Freeman. The protagonist is a white male.

Even in the initial series, Morita plays an immigrant, not quite American and not the hero of the movie.

But even in the recent (2010) remake,
– none of the Asian characters are depicted as American. It fully reinforces the notion that Asians are perpetual foreigners.
– only Jacky Chan’s character is “magical”, the rest are evil heartless almost sub-human creatures, harking to the Yellow Peril image.
– the only “nice” Asian is a young female, reinforcing the image that young Asian females can be NICE, unlike males which are nasty and evil.

I cannot see how any Asian American would see the depiction in those films as anything but stereotype, and not in a good way.

It would be difficult to frame an authentic Asian savior movie that would appeal to white American audiences. First of all, the white persons would have to be troubled by white pathologies that white people have to recognize as a pathology. And the Asian savior cannot be a magical person with secret abilities, but a normal person taking a stand to help the helpless or clueless white persons. Then the white persons will avoid a bad fate that they would normally face if the Asian had not stepped in to help them. The hero would be the Asian character, not any of the white characters.

How could such a story fly with white people?

Maybe if the Asian person helps a white person succeed at a US company (or any organization) run by Asian Americans? The success is due to the efforts of the Asian hero, while the white person basically remains helpless on his own (and the audience knows that). It cannot be an empowered white person like the Karate Kid.

Polarized stereotypes allow us to suppose that if Asian-Americans meet success, racism must not actually be a big deal. They allow us to assume that there is something wrong with black people that don’t succeed, and that we can feel secure in supporting the status quo.

Artificial polarization helps pit people of color against each other, leading to division where we should have unity. The ‘divide-and-conquer’ strategy fuels modern racism. It also allows white people to sit comfortably in the middle, further normalizing their culture relative to the ‘extremes’ around them.

By allowing such dichotomies, we belittle the fact that Asian-Americans do indeed encounter a great deal of racism. Even “good” racial stereotypes are never actually as beneficial as they may seem. Despite a supposed ‘model minority’ work ethic, Asian-Americans still experience higher levels of poverty per capita than whites do, and must constantly battle perceptions of being perpetual foreigners.

To give you a revisited sour taste of slavery in America black slaves (my Ancestors) were set free from their white slave masters, but as physically free people they were without education, money, shelter, and ethnic allies. Without money and resources many blacks remained on the plantation as sharecroppers while others searched for “boots” (not bootstraps) to journey into a wilderness called America.

Unfortunately, the pictures below will let us know that people of color are met with white racism, regularly.

I do not feel positive about that NIH article you linked above. It implies that the reason why Chinese Americans are discriminated against is because of their limited English ability or noticeably accented English. In the conclusion, they offer the solution that they should improve their English skills.

It condemns the perpetual foreigner stereotype, yet supports and promotes it at the same time as it attributes it to limited English proficiency (and not to racial attitudes in the USA).

WAYTA? Did I say the article is “spreading unhelpful, if not harmful information IMO”? The above pictures (not just the last picture but all of them) are representations of stereotypes that live in the mindset of Americans, particularly white Americans. Damn!!

Not necesarily true ..bc Asians love “white.” They do anything to be white.Women especially..you always see them with short bald guys so long as they’re white. so you know it’s not aesthetics. so they’ll all end up having white husbands and whites will still ultimately b in control..relax

In Ethnic Studies we read an article arguing that in the future there will be a ruling class of whites and “honorary whites”: these were supposed to include brain-drain Asian Americans and half-white people and light skinned “Latinos” if memory serves. Dark skinned Blacks and dark skinned people of color were supposed to remain on the bottom.

I disagree, however, because from what I’ve seen whites will let you have positions of power even if you are very dark-skinned and non-white looking as long as you so lack integrity that you are willing to serve their purposes no matter how much you harm others including members of your own ethnic group in the process. The less-white looking you are the better to demonstrate that they are not racist and we’re all equal now.

I’m not sure if this is the exact article I read but this is by the author and includes his concept:

“We are all Americans!: the Latin Americanization of racial stratification in the USA” by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva

I think the author is referring to 2 things, though I can’t speak for him:

1) that whites will have a hand in affecting which Asian American groups become part of the “Honorary whites” group by which ethnicities of Asian women they choose to have mixed race children with. In the case of mail-order brides, white men have a lot more power and choice than the women do because of their class privilege and U.S. citizenship privilege. In the case of relationships between white Americans and Asian Americans, it depends on if whites have a preference against the groups the author puts in the “collective Black”: Hmong, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian people.

2) whites racializing Asian American groups according to the class privilege of immigrants, with brain-drain Asian American groups being more likely to be allowed into whiteness.

I think women of any race don’t have much trouble “dating” white men. Like this guy on a documentary on race in Brazil said, race isn’t much of an issue when it comes to sex. It is an issue when it comes to marriage.

Women elevate their social status by having a relationship with men of any race. That’s why men don’t want women to have economic equality. Men are terrified of being rejected by women so they stack the deck in their favor. That’s why women are always getting hit on by men in positions of power over us (employer, professor, coworker, etc.), because they’re too cowardly to go after women in situations where they can’t punish the woman for rejecting them.

I’m not sure what that tweeter was talking about..Asian Americans and other minorities in the US don’t see black Americans any differently than white Americans do . Asian americans usually are more likely to live in black neighborhoods upon arrival to the US as poor immigrants and are thieved and robbed by black Americans more than by any other . Far more likely a white American actually marries a black American than an Asian American would unless this political correctness bs makes it cool for them to do so too.

@Rick
“Far more likely a white American actually marries a black American than an Asian American would unless this political correctness bs makes it cool for them to do so too.”—What makes you think that?

@sharinalr
what makes me think that?
personal experience and observations I guess…
well, personally how many Asian American (oriental rather) men do u see with black partners?
how many white American men do u see with black partners?
im also part Asian American..were raised to stay away from black Americans. if we were to hook up with black (especially men) wed essentially b outcasts from own respective ethnic communities.

@kiwi
actually I think ur the slow one considering u seemed to think I “hit the nail on the head” a few posts ago..jajaaja
I have no idea what ur talking about.
I frankly don’t care..as an American and an Asian I think my feedback would b far more relevant and credible than urs.
but ill try and make it simple for u
Asianamericans people see blacks as violent bc their personal experiences supports what is propagated in the media regardless of of doc statistics. that’s not racism…that’s situational awareness.
white people are the hypocrites and the Asian that wrote the tweet. theres no way in hell his parents would have supported what he wrote in the tweet. just jumping on the pc bandwagon to further his own social media cause.
white people are shooting unarmed black kids on the street..at the same time theyre the ones lending legitimacy to the anti racism riots across the nation. theyre the ones that flying the southern cross high and proud… and theyre the ones now taking it down..jajjaaja
so id guess theyre slow and hypocrites.

You may not want to assume. Kiwi is Asian so he has every right to speak on Asian issues as you do.

So you are basically saying that anti-racism was not legitimate prior to whites joining in? That whites make it Legit?

I am not sure you can say whites are the one taking the flag down. There was a vote for that flag to come down and it is likely other races played a part in voting it down. Governor Haley is not white even though she looks the part. The flag only came down from our state capital (courtesy of a black woman in my official book), but whites are still flying that flag, even more so in light of events.

@sharinalr
re the white lending legitimacy..sure.
why is this issue different from back when? y is it more wrong now than before?
bc whites are involved now…. along side other races. and they have different reasons.. could b the dolezals of the world..could b bc its cool..could bc theyre legit. making it more credible. after all its those white peoples fathers that started all this.
.and there are no other races..its black and white
Asians are along for the ride..just as one of the previous posts suggested about playing both sides against each other.
why are south Asians still victims of hate crimes or being harassed at airports or extraordinarily rendered in foreign nations under allegations of terrorism post 911?
bc whites haven’t jumped on that bandwagon yet

I deleted 30 comments: all of rick’s comments once he went off topic and the answers to them. Besides using a sock puppet, most of his comments were way off topic, used moderated language, talked about the sex life of other commenters or were little more than name calling, so much so that there is little point in preserving the few that accidentally did not violate the comment policy.

Kiwi the clown is back and as inadvertently funny as ever. How high were you when you read the article I linked to?

You bullsh!t artist, care to provide a link to such Nazi discussions? All you have to do is turn to one of your new friends for that. You allegedly got a perfect SAT score, so tell me what “Asians” like you, i.e., Taiwanese (19% poverty rate) have in common with a Tongan (78% poverty rate)?
I’ll gladly humiliate you by showing what an ass you are. When are you going to sue the Ivy league for ‘racial’ discrimination against “Asians”, a nonexistent race?

Out of curiosity, why did it take you a year and four months to reply? Are you happy, did you finally decide to make an honest woman out of some comely lass from your parents’ village? Don’t be a stranger, you’ll always have an interested reader in me, just try to come up with better material, ok?

@gro jo to be fair, i know i posted a link here some ways back regarding forensic anthropology. One can differentiate between science and pseudo-science eg phrenology, and there are basically 3 accepted ‘widely understood’ categories of race according to modern science. Asian is apparently one.

And, I think what kiwi is getting at is maybe more like South Asians, and well, how do you say, without sounding totally racist, that maybe some families thereof have bought into franchises here in the US? like gas stations, Dunkin Donuts, 711, etc. Not sure, but, there seems to be a ‘foreigner’ dislike often, and some consternation amongst people (ie americans, not just whites) as to how this happened, why is communication in english a challenge, etc. Things are not like back in the late 90’s with the H1B visa scenario.

Kiwi,old buddy, why are you hellbent on misunderstanding me?
Nigerians, the better educated sort, have quite a lot in common with the better educated Haitians.

A relative of mine went to an Ivy league school, did well, and got a medical degree. Several other relatives also got advanced degrees, at “elite” schools, in engineering and architecture. They had to compete with whites and Asians.
I don’t advocate sending anybody to schools that they can’t handle.

You’ve managed to confuse poor v8driver with your nonsense because the poor guy is talking about an “Asian” race. Shame on you. V8, Asians run the gamut racially, from black Andamanese to white Pashtuns, with Kiwi’s lot in the majority. They all live in Asia.
Kiwi, where are the “similar discussions about the German-Jewish wealth gap” that compare to the serious discussion of differences in poverty rates between “Asians”?
Don’t tell me that your Nazi friends are already ignoring you? Could it be the reason you ran back here?
I’ve already told you how to cure your sense of insignificance, why won’t you take my ‘avuncular’ advice?

“We all know that’s BS.” Ouch, you really got me, now prove your claim by quoting something I wrote. Apparently you’ve been going over everything I wrote on this forum so it should be easy for you to do.
“From my link:

About half of black college students rank in the bottom 20 percent of their classes (and the bottom 10 percent in law school).

More proof that America’s schools are racist against Blacks.”
This is what passes for withering sarcasm in the circle jerk you joined?
Why don’t you ‘Asian’ ‘geniuses’ ask yourselves why, with your perfect SAT scores, you will be doomed to servicing some white dude who didn’t work half as hard as you did?
“With types like you representing the supposedly “better educated” Haitians, it’s no wonder Haiti is in the bad shape it’s in.”
Stop, you’re killing me. When China was a place where whites could put up signs barring dogs and Chinese from parks in Shanghai, was it because all Chinese were morons? Are you blaming Chinese-Haitians as well for the plight of Haiti? http://kreyolicious.com/chinwa-story-haitian-chinese/6924
“Go back to closing the Jewish-German wealth gap. I know you think it’s all a Jewish conspiracy to oppress gentiles.”
Pathetic. You’re the one who dragged the Germans and Jews in this conversation, not me. I’m still waiting for your links regarding “Jewish-German wealth gap” so I can compare it with my link on the wealth gap between so-called “Asians”. I’m guessing the reason you haven’t provided these links was to spare you further embarrassment.
chinese-haitian painter

Haiti was so bad that Chinese like the Wahs, Poons, Hong-Longs, Fungcaps and others left the land of milk and honey that was China to come live miserable lives in Haiti. Like you leaving your circle jerk at Big wowo, probably because everybody’s ‘wowo’ was anything but big, to come here and plague us dark folks. Is that about right?

As poor as Haiti was we were hospitable enough to make room for your people and allowed them to contribute to our culture.

“Meanwhile, Dominican Republic, which shares the same island as Haiti, has a living standard well above the other two nations.”
You’re the big expert on development, you tell us why that’s so and how long has it been going on. I’ve read that the DR didn’t start being more developed than Haiti until the 1930s, can you confirm or deny that claim? Can you also say what effect the 1915 US invasion of Haiti had on such development?
Did you know that a Haitian contemplated purchasing what’s now the DR from Spain circa 1815?

You are under the delusion that you are speaking bitter truths that I’m hiding from. You poor stupid bastard, I don’t deny the part played by Haitians in Haiti’s underdevelopment, It started with our willingness to accept to pay for our freedom for the third time in 1825.
You see, dopey, we first paid that price when we agreed to fight against Britain for France in 1793 by accepting French citizenship. The British suffered 80,000 casualties before they quit St-Domingue.
The second payment occurred in 1802 when Napoleon got it into his head that he could take away our French citizenship and make us slaves again. We destroyed his army and threw away French citizenship for the bs that it turned out to be and declared ourselves Haitians in remembrance of the original inhabitants of the island.
After 21 years of living free and making progress such as building schools based on the monitorial (Bell-Lancaster) system, creating a defense industry to protect ourselves from invaders, contributing to the independence of Latin America from Spain by helping Miranda and Bolivar, we united the whole island under the Haitian aegis.
A stupid decision was taken to take seriously France’s claim of indemnity for losses suffered in attempting to re-enslave us by force! The people refused to return to the plantations to work to pay for indemnity the government agreed to. The future Dominicans claimed that they had not benefited from being freed from French rule so why should they pay for something they had nothing to do with. Almost two decades later Haiti encompassing the entire island was broken up with the help of all the Western world powers of the time.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that China suffered a similar fate around the same time.

Way to cherry-pick. The point of the article is to examine weaknesses in Prof. Sander’s claim that this disparity is caused by a “mismatch effect” due to affirmative action.

Ideally, the way to test whether affirmative action does more harm than good, using Sander’s measures, would be to compare the law-school grades and bar-passage rates of students who went to Harvard and Fordham with students who were admitted to the same schools but chose to attend lower-ranked ones. There are no such data. But Ayres and Brooks do the next best thing—they compare black students who went to their first-choice school, which is presumably more elite, to those who attended a lower-choice school. The entering credentials of the first-choice and lower-choice groups turn out to be quite similar. And so do their bar-passage rates. The wrinkle in the story is that the black students who do the best on the bar exam, relatively speaking, are the ones who attend the top schools.

“It’s a fact that Jews have almost always been better educated and wealthier than gentiles in the West for the last 1000 years.”

Not true at all. Most people were poor and uneducated 1000 years ago, regardless of their race or religion. The wealthiest people in the West throughout the Middle Ages were always the gentile royalty and nobility.

“Way to cherry-pick. I didn’t say anything about a ‘mismatch effect’.”

Then why did you link to the Atlantic article, which is all about Sander’s theory of the “mismatch effect” of affirmative action?

“Wrong. Jews were the first religious group in world history to achieve almost universal literacy among men, in spite of oppression. They were also the first to leave farming en masse and concentrate in better-paying urban professions, again, in spite of oppression. The fact that you don’t know this shows the sorry state of liberal dogma in society.”

You said for the last thousand years. Show me proof that in 1017 the majority of Jews in the West were wealthier and better educated than their Christian counterparts. And perhaps you should define what you mean by better educated — literacy in Hebrew to study a book of fables and fairy tales?

“You forgot the secret American government conspiracy that invented HIV to exterminate the Black race. Blacks need to be vigilant and wary of all outside threats. Nothing they do to themselves or to each other could ever possibly hurt them.”

I know you enjoy wallowing in self-pity and victimization so I’ll give you a hint. I picked Benin because it shares the same cultural background as Haiti: voodoo. Hopefully, you can tell us about the fear, paranoia, and irrationality it engenders but I suppose you don’t have to since your own behavior already captures it pretty well. The fact that Haiti and Benin have almost the same income, life expectancy, and living conditions despite their different histories should ring a resounding bell for anyone who cares about the plight of the two countries.”
Do tell! What do you know about “voodoo” aside from the bs you saw in movies? You even managed to detect its nefarious effect on me! You know me better than I know myself. I thought I was an atheist raised by Christians.

Would you care to specify what it is about ‘voodoo’ that prevented Haiti or Benin from progressing?
In Haiti’s case, I thought it was the destruction of the early efforts made in educating the people by king Henri Christophe, the contempt and sloth of the rulers who succeeded him, that doomed the nation to debt slavery by accepting terms that only a defeated nation should have agreed to plus the reliance on foreign rather than national industry that did us in.
Before you give me your horror movie version of Haiti’s national religion, you know, savages with bones piercing their noses, know that some very educated people have also been adherents of that religion.
Max Beauvoir was a Sorbonne and CUNY trained biochemist,who held a patent on the process of obtaining hecogenin from plant leaves until 1993. Patrick Bellegarde-Smith is a university professor at University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee.
I don’t know you but I’m willing to bet you’ve nothing on them in the brain category.
Mr. Bertin Nahum of Benin is the inventor of the Rosa robot surgery GPS system and one of Europe’s most innovative businessmen. I don’t know what his religious affiliations are, but I know that if Benin can produce such clever engineer it can’t be as bad as you claim it is. Mr. Gerard Alphonse, a Haitian engineer invented In 1986, the world’s highest performance superluminescent diode (SLD), a device currently used in industry in a variety of applications including interferometric fiber optic gyroscopes (IFOG), optical coherence tomography (OCT), optical amplifiers in telecommunications, switching for optical interconnects, mode-locked and tunable lasers. No, I don’t know his religion. Reginald Fils-Aimé of NIntendo is of Haitian ancestry why wasn’t he hobbled by the same ” fear, paranoia, and irrationality” that you ably detected in me?
KIWI YOU. ARE. A. RACIST. CLOWN.

We all know that’s BS. Your support for race preferences for Blacks and Asian quotas shows what a phony hypocrite you are. With types like you representing the supposedly “better educated” Haitians, it’s no wonder Haiti is in the bad shape it’s in. Go back to closing the Jewish-German wealth gap. I know you think it’s all a Jewish conspiracy to oppress gentiles.”

If half of Black students are in the bottom of their classes, as you say, my advice to them is to emulate Gabrielle Turnquest (https://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/how-i-became-uk-youngest-barrister-legal-industry ), the brilliant black lady, who got called to the bar at the ripe old age of 18, or Charles Hamilton Houston, the black lawyer who devised the tactic of challenging the “separate but equal” laws. He was the first black student elected to the editorial board of the Harvard Law Review and graduated cum laude. Failing to imitate these ‘role models’ the Blacks at the bottom of their schools should find other careers. You see my dear racist a**hole clown I DON’T BELIEVE IN PLACING ANYBODY IN CLASSES THEY CAN’T HANDLE REGARDLESS OF RACE.

“I like how sharinalr already upvoted others’ comments nine times in a row on this thread”—This is what you said right or are you going to pretend you said otherwise? Anyhoo 9 in a row would mean back to back right? When you made that comment I had only upvoted like 5. It was days later before I upvoted the others. But catch this…..If you count those who did decide to comment to you…they weren’t in a row to receive those upvotes. What you really should be concerned about is the fact that you were sitting around refreshing pages waiting for me to upvote.

You’ve failed to produce a single valid explanation for why Haiti’s standard of living is almost identical to Benin’s. Notice I didn’t pick any other West African countries, which share the same race but not culture. (Right, and you have? You know f*ck all about Haiti’s or Benin’s culture.)They have relatively different outcomes compared to Haiti/Benin but of course, you don’t care about how belief systems impact the organization of societies.(Correct.) You want to be a victim.(So you say.) I’ll step out of your way and let you wallow in it.(Thank you.)”

“This can be confirmed by experts in Jewish history/economics if you ever choose to speak to any.”

Then please be so kind as to name a few.

“It’s clear you know very little about Jewish history”

What’s clear is that you know next to nothing about medieval Europe. You started this by saying:

“It’s a fact that Jews have almost always been better educated and wealthier than gentiles in the West for the last 1000 years.”

But it’s obvious that you pulled “1000 years” out of a hat because it sounded good. You don’t even know how many Jews lived in Europe in 1017, much less in what regions they did and did not live, much less their average educational attainment, income level, quality of life, etc.

You don’t know the same information for 1217 or 1417, either. And you’ve clearly never made a serious study of the medieval ghetto or the modern-era shtetl.

You are also making a beginner’s error that would be glaringly obvious to any cultural historian — or for that matter anyone with a basic grasp of how demographics works.

And as a further point: you introduced the topic of Jewish wealth in response to the article Gro Jo linked to about the Asian American wealth gap. You countered his post by stating: “The Nazis had similar discussions about the German-Jewish wealth gap during the 1930s and accordingly passed legislation to rein in “Jewish privilege”. ”

But this is a faulty comparison. The Asian American wealth gap being referred to is within the Asian American community, not between AAPIs and whites or blacks.

You’ve managed to avoid addressing the initial topic by veering off into Jewish history and the African American educational gap and Haitian voodoo and whether there should be a limit on how often Sharina uses the “like” button and anything else you can think of to throw a wrench in the works.

So what exactly are your thoughts on the issue Singh is actually writing about in that article?

Sad part is that he has yet to catch that most of these “likes” are just because he is saying something. Typical behavior of someone who likes to point out issues that he can’t argue. But alas….this same harassing behavior would have lead to a ban had it been resw.

Why the fvck does our genial host allow kiwi such leeway? his comments are off topic, devoid of any value and made purely to insult. resw got banned for less. Very inconsistent. Kiwi is a nobody and should be treated accordingly by disappearing his off topic comments and the responses to them. I’m not a believer in banning, but if resw, nomad and lordy were banned, why not kiwi? If kiwi isn’t banned, why not bring back resw, nomad and others?

“…you’ve clearly never made a serious study of the medieval ghetto or the modern-era shtetl.”

Your point is well taken.

Also a lot of people don’t know Jews scored low on IQ tests as new arrivals to the US. Ditto for Poles, Italians and Greeks, etc. All of these groups were nearly, but not quite White at the time and experienced similar educational gaps that people currently blame Black, Latinx and Native Americans for in the US.

“Kiwi is easily ignored. He tends to pull “factoids” out of his hindquarters and throws them around like flashbang grenades.”
Interesting claim. His racist and ignorant and off topic rants about Vodou, black students, etc., are mere factoids that Afrofem, Solitaire, sharinalr and myself, respond to out of boredom or entertainment? I’m surprised by your low regard for what you do here. You are the only one who finds him amusing, in my opinion. Your argument is that he is racist but harmless. Pure hypocrisy.

Kiwi is indeed virulently anti-Black. His arguments are so full of holes anyone of us could drive a dump truck through them.

He is a typical “kiss up, kick down” Asian. I encounter a lot of them out West. They want White people to tell them how wonderful they are and get angry when their White idols ignore them to engage with (those “horrid, stupid, barely human”) Black people instead.

You may find entertainment in dealing with so pathetic a character, but I find him a colossal bore.

Afrofem, Kiwi the clown’s entertainment value expired a long time ago. I’m baffled why Abagond tolerates his bs.
“You may find entertainment in dealing with so pathetic a character, but I find him a colossal bore.” Where did you get this weird notion from? I was surprised that you wrote: “Kiwi is easily ignored. He tends to pull “factoids” out of his hindquarters and throws them around like flashbang grenades.” Thought it was Abagond who wrote this.

First world problems for first world folk. If you’re going to complain about, do something about it. What have you personally contributed to Haiti? That’s right. Nothing. Shows how much you care.”
Kiwi, as a guy who ‘cares’ and wants to do something other than complain, without making a great commitment of time and money, you could always stuff your face with Haitian made chocolate! A painless way to test your claim about “how belief systems impact the organization of societies.”http://askanya.ht/home/
You might find the life of Ms. Corinne Joachim-Sanon, the founder of the enterprise a perfect example for your claim of the baleful effect of ‘voodoo’ on poor, benighted Haitians and Beninois.