Good people can disagree on politics. They should. The debate is healthy.

Calling people racists, nazis, murderers, women-haters, etc. is absolute bullshit. To Hell with you people, you don't deserve to participate in this process with civil human beings, so feel free to direct your venom to the brick wall behind the building.

Deroy Murdock had a great piece on NRO tonight:http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/316052/rnc-speakers-undermined-racist-code-deroy-murdock

Seriously, the GOP moved quickly to distance themselves from his crap. The DNC cronys have been pouring it on HARD in recent months and getting a pass. The cries of racism, the Godwin's Law violations, the whole "war on women" bullshit, it's over the top and unworthy of American politics.

All sides need to stop this, and everyone needs to speak up and give these fools a great big cup of STFU.

1. Romney's comment is fantastic, powerful political theater delivered at an appropriate time for maximum damage.

2. It would be great to have civility in politics, but it will never happen.

3. In 40 years, all of you will look back on 2012 as a halcyon time full of decorum compared to the disgusting insults of 2052. With the exception of periods of national crisis, when we all come together to face an actual enemy, we will always have this vile politics.

4. Vile, insult-filled politics is awesome. It's the result of ordered liberty and it's gorgeous.

Good call by Romney to get Obama to rein in the attack dogs, because he won't do it. I've said for years that Obama is the kind of coward who will only hit you when someone is holding your arms. He's not about to disavow this kind of thuggish rhetoric from his team because it serves his purpose, and he "knows" he can just keep quiet because a fawning media won't call him on it. Trouble is, though, this time he's facing someone who actually wants to win, and the ads this could make would be powerful.

To speak of a quality "on the outside" makes one question what's "on the inside"-- the opposition of "outside" and "inside" suggests the possibility of discordance (between external appearance/ inner essence) and thus deception, illusion... even emptiness. What's on the inside of Obama?

Someone "who burns for America on the inside"! But this is exactly what Obama is infamously suspected to not feel: he may have an American birth certificate, but everything about Obama leads one to question how American he is "on the inside." Everything about his life story and his rhetoric (cf. his international speeches) suggests that Obama is a cosmopolitan internationalist, who holds much of what "America" and "Americans" stand for in contempt.

So in this double compliment I see a double insult! Prima facie, Clinton's sentence doubly recommends Obama for the nomination/ presidency, but in fact it doubly reminds us of reasons why Obama is unfit for the nomination/ presidency.

And (this is the kicker) those very reasons recommend Romney: someone who is so very not cool (thus, doesn't rely on this superficial quality "on the outside" as part of his appeal or his case for election); and someone who (much more believably than Obama) might be said to "burn for America on the inside."

Seriously, I'm in awe of Clinton's art of the... I was going to say "backhanded compliment," but really this deserves the term backstabbing compliment.

NB I didn't watch or read the speech, so perhaps the context would change my interpretation of this line.

Wow, Althouse must've been fucked up, given her typos in the post's title. I guess that happens when Bill Clinton gets up there and, in short order, dismantles 4 years of propaganda on all these right wing blogs.

Althouse is left telling us Clinton went on too long. LOL! The speech went by pretty fast. Clinton fucked you and your propaganda up. ROFL!

Meade spent the last day trolling some site about someone he claims is pretending to be dying. Meade says that guy must be a horrible person because there's some minor misdemeanor outstanding against him or something.

Hey, Meade, you dodged the fucking draft! Mr. America. You fucking dodged the draft. But now you're Mr. America trying to troll people over minor misdemeanors and shove cameras in their faces if they sneeze on a war memorial.

Bill Clinton's speech didn't go too long. It was a great speech - a grand slam home run - and he fucked you people up. Go watch it again, 'cause that man picked you fuckers apart in brilliant fashion. Go cry and drop your teardrops in your Four Lokos and Twisted Teas. Guess what, Romney got ZERO bounce from his convention, but I guarantee you Obama gets a bounce from his in the swing states (where he already is command to begin with).

Let's see Althouse explain why Paul Ryan was a fucking fraud on Medicare. Oh, she won't. Clinton's right -- Obama has helped people in areas from credit card debts to health insurance, and it's a joke that the folks who put America on the brink of economic collapse think we should vote for them again just a few years after they left us in such bad shape. Althouse is affluent and she might not care about that stuff, but you'd think at the very least, given her support for gay rights, she'd notice that one convention is sticking up for gay people while the other one was not.

I thought Clinton was right'on about Obama being someone willing to compromise and cooperate with those in good faith. But, of course, he's dealing with a right wing that stated from the get-go that they wanted America to fail while Obama was prez.

Let's be totally honest here-- right-wingers were sad when Usama bin Laden was taken out because they cared more about not wanting any victories for America under Obama than they care about their country.

Clinton was also right that Republicans are trying to suppress the vote among people of minority races. This is certainly a fact here in Ohio, one of the key swing states. I have posted links to the news articles, including quotes from Republicans who came out and shamelessly admitted it. But that sort of thing is of no interest on these right wing sites. What does it tell you about a party when they are busy trying to keep people from voting based on their skin color?

Republicans say we should help them take the Senate so they can repeal Obamcare. They had decades to ake reforms in health care and they showed they did not give a fuck. Why should I vote for the Republican Senate candidate in Ohio, Josh Mandel? His campaign is taking big money from the Payday Loans predatory lenders. That means if he were to be in the Senate he'd be in the pocket of the predatory lending scumbags. No thanks.

I hope for Meade's sake that that guy he's trolling over on another site is not really dying. What kind of low-life scumbag is Meade to go trolling over that? (See previous thread.) Perhaps Meade should get a job.

Wow, Romney didn't even mention our troops in Afghanistan at his convention. Maybe that flies with chickenhawks like Meade (a draft dodger who now spends his days trying to catch people sneezing on war memorials to prove that he's Mister America), but the last I heard from Romney about Afghanistan is that he'd keep us there until the Taliban is totally defeated. When will that be? I think Meade and Althouse should be sent to the front lines.

Obama has no problem with people in his party saying Republicans hate women, Hispanics, and blacks, and only care about helping their rich friends, so why should he bother if a few of them compare Republicans to Nazis?

To all lefties who blame the GOP congress for not working with Obama, just stop. Here's a direct quote from Rahm Emmanuel, from Woodward's forthcoming book: "We've got the votes. Fuck 'em."

From 2008-2010, the Dems had zero interest in bipartisanship, and they locked the GOP out on stimulus and health care. So now it's the GOP's fault that they won't support more of Obama's budget-breaking spending? Get a clue.

Wow, Romney didn't even mention our troops in Afghanistan at his convention. Maybe that flies with chickenhawks like Meade (a draft dodger who now spends his days trying to catch people sneezing on war memorials to prove that he's Mister America), but the last I heard from Romney about Afghanistan is that he'd keep us there until the Taliban is totally defeated. When will that be? I think Meade and Althouse should be sent to the front lines.

Wow! Talk about a week late.

Oaf must have been reduced to cribbing his talking points off the little animal.

Say, do you think Choom is going to tell us tonight how he told all the SEAL Team guys to wait in the chopper while he personally did bin Laden?

I don't think anyone expects pure 'civility', but the discourse is somewhere below lunch table fencing at this point.

Considering the sorry state of affairs, from people who believe we 'belong to government' to the power-hungry ghouls more than happy to promote this ghastly meme, my faith in the American people as a whole is at an all-time low.

I used to believe the best about the people of this country; now, I am careful to qualify the individual as to whether they deserve freedom or the shackles they seem to so desperately want.

"But at a critical juncture, with an agreement tantalizingly close, Obama pressed Boehner for additional taxes as part of a final deal -- a miscalculation, in retrospect, given how far the House speaker felt he'd already gone."

-- From the stuff about what Woodward wrote. Fun fact: That's been known -since the deal fell apart-. Everyone who bothered to follow it knew that Obama refused to give anything of substance up while demanding everything. If it takes Woodward to write a book for it to permeate to the undecided and low-information voters, so be it.

"The president told Woodward that he wasn't aware that Ryan was in the audience, and he called inviting him there "a mistake."

In short, Obama would prefer to have insulted and lied about his opponent when he wasn't there to see it. That's so amazingly cowardly that I'm not sure why anyone would admit to it unless they didn't realize -how- cowardly it made them look.

Really, when you think about civility, just compare the two conventions. The clearest example is this: empty chair pretending the imaginary occupant said something vulgar? Incredibly uncivil, possibly a racist allusion to The Invisible Man.

Kicking an empty chair to harm the imaginary occupant? Civil.

Just compare the language and rhetoric at the conventions, and it will be clear which side is actually trying to be civil. Even Christie played nice.

Unlike others, I do not look to politicians to define the civility of the American people. I look at it the other way around.

In my view, the issue is with the press, not how things are stated. The press must report the truth. That means no more Dan Rathers making things up about candidates he doesn't like. That means equal vetting.

The press may have a morality, and that ought to be left on the opinion page. Sometimes I think it's merely a crutch for them. So long as they view things through some fairness lens, they don't need to do the real work of understanding how programs really work, and their effect.

@Matthew Sablan said...Really, when you think about civility, just compare the two conventions. The clearest example is this: empty chair pretending the imaginary occupant said something vulgar? Incredibly uncivil, possibly a racist allusion to The Invisible Man.

Kicking an empty chair to harm the imaginary occupant? Civil.

Just compare the language and rhetoric at the conventions, and it will be clear which side is actually trying to be civil. Even Christie played nice.

9/6/12 6:59 AM

Wow, you dare to compare an empty chair skit that contained the suggestion of vulgarity to a platform that supports killing babies accidentally born alive during an abortion procedure? That is some moral equivalence you have there...

As I've claimed before, Democrats do not want to be adults. Pardon, the democratic constituency doesn't want to be adults. They prefer someone else do all the heavy lifting of earning a living, and buying insurance etc. That is the roll children play in society. This "play" continues to permeate their entire psyche to encompass the play of sex with no strings and no consequences. Thus we get the hook up nation, one night stands, rampant deviency, and increasing unwed birth rates. Just children playing with themselves.

Are there needs for social services? Of course there are, but so much of the need we have today is self-inflicted by people who don't, and don't want, to bare resposibility.

Much easier to allow the power hungry demagogs make all the decisions for you.

The sad part is that even when these poor souls decide to act responsibly they have no idea how. Thus you have OWS. I actualy think OWS has a few good points, but then they come out with drum circles, and up and down twinkles, and averring that every view point is equally valid. They're not. That's why Nazi's, racists, and anarchists are roundly derided by serious societies. These groups were openly welcomed by OWS, for 2 reasons. To swell their numbers, and it would be judgemental to bar them. And so serious people dismiss OWS as being a bunch of rubbish. They did it to themselves.

Muh like voters in Detroit, Chicago, New York, and LA. That's the way the want it? Well, they gets' it, to paraphrase Stother Martin. The people in these cities are going to pay a cost like no other in modern America, not monetarily, but in suffering. When their built in safetynets collapse under the sheer weight of people that don't want to be responsible.

When you call every political disagreement racist and/or Naziism, it diminishes the actual evils of those things. Romney is not a Nazi. He is not a racist. Republicans (as a whole) are not Nazis or racists (individual elements within both parties MIGHT be those things, but not the entire party.)

You might be familiar with a story about a boy. He sometimes cried wolf.

Is Loafing Oaf so ignorant and unaware that he doesn't realize how bad it looks to be abusing someone as a supposed draft-dodger while lauding Bill Clinton, who didn't just evade the draft but lied his way out of it, in the very same comment?

1. As a leftist, Loaf is immune from being racist. If she's black, that goes triple.

2. It is, by definition, not racist for leftists to assume that black people need help because they are stupid and incapable. Just somewhat more so than the rest of us who also need the gov't to do everything for us. Luckily, we have capable people like Pelosi and Reid to hold our hands.

"Our ruling: Clinton’s figures check out, and they also mirror the broader results we came up with two years ago. Partisans are free to interpret these findings as they wish, but on the numbers, Clinton’s right. We rate his claim True."

Lindsey's all up in arms because someone dared to generalize that most Dems are bad people. Does SIXTEEN TRILLION in debt register on you, Lindsey? Of course not. Because it's SIXTEEN TRILLION for compassion.

Miss Lindsey--if you are still on this thread, both Shiloh and I had a question about your Mom's and your age. I am not challenging your veracity but just asking for clarification. You said your Mom was 86 and you were 26. Shiloh asked did you mean your grandmother which makes a bit more sense agewise. (I acknowledge that older women can be fertile, and that may well be the case in your Mom's case.) Thanks in advance.

"The most important family policy, urban policy, labor policy, minority policy, and foreign policy America can have is an expanding entrepreneurial economy..."

"That’s why we need a new approach to government, a government that offers more empowerment and less entitlement. More choices for young people in the schools they attend... And more choices for the elderly and for people with disabilities and the long-term care they receive. A government that is leaner, not meaner; a government that expands opportunity, not bureaucracy; a government that understands that jobs must come from growth in a vibrant and vital system of free enterprise."Bill Clinton, accepting nomination for President in 1992

As soon as I see setting aside class warfare, reducing government size and scope, opening up school choice programs, and encouraging small businesses as part of the Obama plan, I'll know he's getting the message. And I'm not holding my breath....

Given the dismal economic stats, I was suprised to see one of Mr Obama's objectives as reforming the filibuster rules. I find it remarkable that a member of the executive branch would come out with such a proposal that inserts the executive in the the thicket that is Senate rules. It does speak to me that he has no understanding of separation of powers. (google "reforming filibuster Obama") for cites.

Why? At this point when leftards and democrats pull out that republicans/conservatives = Nazi's card, it has become a point of comedy, not reality. The only people that believe that are their batshit crazy constituency. Hmmm, well, then maybe I need to reassess how many of them that really is. But anyway, just laugh at them and their little jokes. No one takes them seriously anymore.

Romney, I think, has the good sense to let the DNC fire off its first salvo before responding. It is good manners to not attack the other side too heavily during their convention (to not steal the show), so I think Romney will respect that.

There is the possibility of subtle genius in that statement by Clinton. The man used the words "Obama", "burns", and "America," in the same sentence. What came to my mind (as a person old enough to recall the context) was "Burn, baby, burn!" Draw your own conclusion why that would be an interesting image for Sly Bill to evoke.

The quotes from Woodward that describe Obama as mean and incompetent and kinda clueless?

That is big news only to those who drank the Koolaid like Woodward and his media pals and to 53% of the 2008 voters.

I see it as big news because media outlets (the lefty biased ones) are starting to produce multiple articles that highlight Obama's shortcomings:*"No one in charge at the White House"*"No decision-making process"*"Obama thinks he's a lot better at stuff than he is"*"No management experience"*"Myopic attention to picayune things, especially his hobbies, while leaving important legislation to staff and congress"\*"Mainly wants to win reelection because he's competitive"

I get the impression that these aren't just one-off type of articles. This stuff's been festering for a couple of years now, and it's finally boiling over. In the NYT, ABC news, and Lefty-Media-God-Who-Took-Down-Nixon Bob Woodward, no less.

I believe that most Democrats not in office are either fearful, overwhelmed, ignorant (whether wilful or not) or a combination of those attributes. We all understnad this.

And here is the shocker for you: I have been a registered Democrat since I registered at 18. I votes for Carter over Reagan. I have not bothered to change it though I became conservative long ago because I enjoy getting the Democrat mail and emails and party invitations. And when I compare it to the wife's Ma from Republicans, there is a growing honesty and integrity gap between the parties: Democrats just lie and mosrepresnt more often than Republicans. It's demonstrable.

And heartbreaking..

Another shocker for you:

I Voted for a Democrat assemblyman in 2010 (and will again this year- someone I know personally and am proud to support becauase of his integrity even though we disagree on several issues.

Values and morality are not fungible to me. I don't have to agree with every view or issue of a politician, but someone of any political stripe lacking integrity - not perfect, mind you, just basic decency and honesty and honor - will always cause more problems in the long run.

Just a reminder, the guy who wants us to think he is civil let his surrogates say things like: "If Mitt was Santa Claus, he'd fire the reindeer" un-ironicly. Obama has let people accuse Romney of not caring about people despite learning during the RNC about Romney's depth of charity and character, even closing his business to find a missing girl.

Obama fumbled his attacks for anyone who watched the RNC and heard about Romney the man. This convention is not designed to reach out to the independent seeking information, it is pure base-pleasing. Hence, the lack of civility. Nothing riles up the base like red meat.

That's part of the reason Romney got little bounce; most of the bounce comes from a rededication of your core voters and capturing leaners who have become disenchanted. The Obama bounce may happen solely from getting people who a few days ago thought they wouldn't vote who, for the next few days, will think they will vote.

So pinchingloaf do you do anything other than lie? Please please please go down the chicken hawk road with me butt nugget. I will gladly have the military service conversation with any of you gutless fucks who couldn't be bothered to serve but enjoy throwing around the term chickenhawk just to show how tough you think you are.

Democrat leader Mark Siegel stated at the DNC that "fundamentalist Christians...want Jews to die and convert so they can bring on the second coming of their Lord." It wasn't Glenn Beck, John Hagee, Hal Lindsey or any other Christian who first talked about the predicted massive slaughter of Jews during what Christians call the "end times." It was the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who as long ago as 487 B.C. predicted that two-thirds of Jewry in the "last days" will be killed (Zech. 13:8). All true Christian leaders view this scripture with horror and sympathy and NOT with glee! Fundamentalist Christians are actually waiting for an "any-moment rapture" to Heaven (several years before the second coming) and do not believe that any event, including this final Jewish holocaust, has to happen before their escapist rapture happens. More shocks. Fundamentalists have recently been learning that their rapture belief was first taught in Britain in 1830 and that it wasn't widely adopted by Americans until the early 1900s. The documentation on all this is in "The Rapture Plot" (carried by online bookstores) which also reveals for the first time that, amazingly enough, this British theory has an anti-Jewish foundation! (For more info Google "Pretrib Rapture Politics.") Although no one is perfect, evangelical Christians (including fundamentalists) are still the best friends of Jewish persons and Israel.