Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

This is because I think people have this misunderstanding that games failing is some sort of 1-in-a-million kind of thing.

And it really really really isn't. I have absolutely no figures to back this up, but games do fail. They fail all the time. And this is when there are companies backing them up, so that if they are having troubles they can sometimes give the game a cash infusion to make sure it gets made.

If a game is 100% crowdsourced and runs into issues... there are no more funds, unless you do another kickstarter and say "Things aren't going well, please give us more money"... which doesn't sound like a great sales pitch.

Soooo yeah. If you're thinking of supporting a game on kickstarter, kudos to you- just go into it with the knowledge that you might never see that money, or any of the cool level bonuses they are promising, because the game may never materialize.

Does Kickstarter have a policy about starting a kickstarter for additional funding for something that you already funded with an earlier kickstarter? Like, "woops, we ran through all of our money, but we are 90% done (although we don't have a demo yet) just need a couple hundred thousand more we swear!"

Johnny Videogames looks like he got the shit beat out of him till his face deformed.

I just tweeted and emailed @ tycho & gabe and asked them to use Randy Pinkstaff or their own characters.

It hurts to see a comic I like so much perpetuate a stereotype that a swarthy male is a con-man or whatever.

The fact thy the guy calls himself John Videogames or claims to have invented video games seems to get lost in just how ethnic/middle eastern/Mediterranean/ just over all swarth this guy looks.

Did a swarthy guy offend one of these dudes?

I mean I am sure they have black friends and Kiko has thick eye brows. I don't think Tycho and Gabe are bad people. I just wish they knew this is a hurtful stereotype and that perpetuating it isn't anymore funny then equating black face with happy servitude, simplicity or whatever.

I have absolutely no figures to back this up, but games do fail. They fail all the time. And this is when there are companies backing them up, so that if they are having troubles they can sometimes give the game a cash infusion to make sure it gets made.

What's more important than knowing that games fail to be completed is to know why they aren't completed. The Extra Credits episode recently talked about how a publisher can pull funding if a game doesn't meet certain benchmarks. On the flipside, a developer may pull funding simply because they don't like how the game is developing, or want to change direction, etc. In both of these cases, the game didn't exceed its budget, and may have only spent a fraction of it so far, but since the funding is in stages from the publisher or just continuous funds as needed by the developer, they can be killed by pulling out future funding.

An example would be Blizzard's Warcraft Adventures, where Blizzard apparently just changed its mind about making an adventure game. Meanwhile Double Fine experienced the initial publisher dropping out during the development of both Psychonauts and Brutal Legend. Neither were over budget, the publisher merely changed its mind and cut its losses.

Now, this means that with Kickstarter games, the developer doesn't have the luxury of simply killing the project if they don't like the way its going and just eat the losses, which they could do if it was self-funded. However, the developer also knows that there's a committed consumer base for the product, and that they're in the green as long as they stay in budget, versus committing their own money.

If a game is 100% crowdsourced and runs into issues... there are no more funds, unless you do another kickstarter and say "Things aren't going well, please give us more money"... which doesn't sound like a great sales pitch.

This is a possibility. However, a number of these games are still taking pre-orders after the Kickstarter ended, meaning that there's additional funding coming in throughout the development, with budgets being able to be adjusted accordingly.

There's also the possibility of self-funding. A number of these games are by game companies, while others like Grim Dawn were being self-funded before the Kickstarter. Brian Fargo was originally going to kick in $100K if Wasteland didn't meet its goal, so it's possible he would kick that in at a later point if they hit a budget crunch.

There's also the idea of other investments or loans. Considering the Kickstarter funds don't have any equity in the game, there's still a fair amount of value in the title. Developers could get a loan. They could get a single investor in exchange for a share in the game (similar to what Notch was proposing in potentially funding Pschyonauts 2). Or they could sign with a publisher, with the publisher getting money from the sales generated after release.

Finally, they could simply start cutting back on the project. This has happened in traditionally developed games, where looking through the released product reveals abandoned levels, characters, side-quests, etc. It might be harder if its a feature the developer explicitly promised, but otherwise they simply trim the game a bit and finish up what they have.

Does Kickstarter have a policy about starting a kickstarter for additional funding for something that you already funded with an earlier kickstarter? Like, "woops, we ran through all of our money, but we are 90% done (although we don't have a demo yet) just need a couple hundred thousand more we swear!"

Can I split up funding for the same project into several projects for each stage?

If each stage of the project is distinct and there is ample time between them, raising funds in stages is doable. There are potential issues with backer fatigue (asking the same audience multiple times for support) and reward fulfillment — you are responsible for fulfilling the rewards from each project, so setting up a series of projects whose rewards can only be fulfilled upon completion of the final one may be problematic. If you’ve thought through these issues and feel confident in your plan, go for it. People have definitely done this effectively.

That's about specifically outlining stages ahead of time. I know a few games have been self-funded and are running Kickstarters for the "last legs" so to speak (Grim Dawn, Battle Chess), but I don't know how Kickstarter would react to try to run a 2nd Kickstarter for essentially the same project.

One thing to consider is that the developer may not have to do the 2nd round of funding through Kickstarter. By the point they know they're going to need more funds, they'll already have all their Kickstarter backers' contact info. They could run a drive on their own site, perhaps letting people do after-the-fact upgrades to their reward tiers, or offer additional rewards and promotional materials. They could set up pre-orders and ask backers to spread the word.

And going back to a developer simply cutting back on a project, once they ship the reduced but finished game, they could run a kickstarter for an expansion pack or DLC that adds that excised content back in after further funding.

Johnny Videogames looks like he got the shit beat out of him till his face deformed.

I just tweeted and emailed @ tycho & gabe and asked them to use Randy Pinkstaff or their own characters.

It hurts to see a comic I like so much perpetuate a stereotype that a swarthy male is a con-man or whatever.

The fact thy the guy calls himself John Videogames or claims to have invented video games seems to get lost in just how ethnic/middle eastern/Mediterranean/ just over all swarth this guy looks.

Did a swarthy guy offend one of these dudes?

I mean I am sure they have black friends and Kiko has thick eye brows. I don't think Tycho and Gabe are bad people. I just wish they knew this is a hurtful stereotype and that perpetuating it isn't anymore funny then equating black face with happy servitude, simplicity or whatever.

What is love, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no mo'

Sagittarius Adequate Catharsis

You know what offends me most of all?

People who get bent out of shape and try to raise a huge stink over a silly webcomic, looking for the next controversy.

"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz EllorMy new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!

Just thought of another possibility for an unfinished game: releasing it open source and letting the community help finish it. This may piss off some backers, who thought they were basically pre-ordering at a discount for a pay game, but it could help the developer technically fulfill the rewards for the KS. I would think this would be a last resort though for the developer, basically a step above the developer quitting with the game completely unreleased.

Johnny Videogames looks like he got the shit beat out of him till his face deformed.

I just tweeted and emailed @ tycho & gabe and asked them to use Randy Pinkstaff or their own characters.

It hurts to see a comic I like so much perpetuate a stereotype that a swarthy male is a con-man or whatever.

The fact thy the guy calls himself John Videogames or claims to have invented video games seems to get lost in just how ethnic/middle eastern/Mediterranean/ just over all swarth this guy looks.

Did a swarthy guy offend one of these dudes?

I mean I am sure they have black friends and Kiko has thick eye brows. I don't think Tycho and Gabe are bad people. I just wish they knew this is a hurtful stereotype and that perpetuating it isn't anymore funny then equating black face with happy servitude, simplicity or whatever.

What is love, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no mo'

Sagittarius Adequate Catharsis

You know what offends me most of all?

People who get bent out of shape and try to raise a huge stink over a silly webcomic, looking for the next controversy.

Since when is compassion a huge stink?

It just really made me feel a pit in my chest that this might be how my heroes see people who look like me, or who talk like me sometimes breaking English down in a different way then they are use to or that they would consider "proper".

Please forgive me for admiring these guys and their incredible success not just at finding a niche for expression and social acceptance and but also in attracting the right people into their family, and sustaining that family.

G&T are pretty amazing to some one like me.

When I finished reading today's comic I almost wept. I wondered if I was over sensitive but I realized that all my life I have had to de-emphasize my ethnicity. Over articulate my language. Shave my face and cut my hair short.

Learn all kinds of ways of unarmring barbed criticisms of my masculinity because my square jaw or hairiness made people feel inadequate or intimidated, or made them feel proud of being refined to the point where they are no longer carrying around unnecessary body hair since we all wear clothes right now or have small faces because we are civilized enough to control our food.

And then I read the title. Oh, I thought, this comic is all about credibility. Social credit, the one thing I cannot accumulate since I still hold to the theism that allows a simple animal like myself to understand the way that consciousness interacts with quantum physics. Social Currency that i cannot hold onto since I do not cower away from people's bad opinions of me. Social Currency that I cannot accumulate because I am not a clever double talker always weaving a group-thought instead of saying "I, Me, My" which is so frowned upon in this society of subtle backbiting and verbal sniping.

What stink is it to say "Ouch, please stop doing that, please apologize."

The last thing I want to do is punish Gabe and Tycho. It just hurts to see this guys face associated with dishonesty not because I think swarthyness should be protected above other looks, but because it is a hurtful stereotype that I have had to deal with my whole life.

Thank you.
I love you.
Please do not attack me for expressing myself. Thank you for reading this post.

Johnny Videogames looks like he got the shit beat out of him till his face deformed.

I just tweeted and emailed @ tycho & gabe and asked them to use Randy Pinkstaff or their own characters.

It hurts to see a comic I like so much perpetuate a stereotype that a swarthy male is a con-man or whatever.

The fact thy the guy calls himself John Videogames or claims to have invented video games seems to get lost in just how ethnic/middle eastern/Mediterranean/ just over all swarth this guy looks.

Did a swarthy guy offend one of these dudes?

I mean I am sure they have black friends and Kiko has thick eye brows. I don't think Tycho and Gabe are bad people. I just wish they knew this is a hurtful stereotype and that perpetuating it isn't anymore funny then equating black face with happy servitude, simplicity or whatever.

What is love, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no mo'

Sagittarius Adequate Catharsis

You know what offends me most of all?

People who get bent out of shape and try to raise a huge stink over a silly webcomic, looking for the next controversy.

Since when is compassion a huge stink?

It just really made me feel a pit in my chest that this might be how my heroes see people who look like me, or who talk like me sometimes breaking English down in a different way then they are use to or that they would consider "proper".

Please forgive me for admiring these guys and their incredible success not just at finding a niche for expression and social acceptance and but also in attracting the right people into their family, and sustaining that family.

G&T are pretty amazing to some one like me.

When I finished reading today's comic I almost wept. I wondered if I was over sensitive but I realized that all my life I have had to de-emphasize my ethnicity. Over articulate my language. Shave my face and cut my hair short.

Learn all kinds of ways of unarmring barbed criticisms of my masculinity because my square jaw or hairiness made people feel inadequate or intimidated, or made them feel proud of being refined to the point where they are no longer carrying around unnecessary body hair since we all wear clothes right now or have small faces because we are civilized enough to control our food.

And then I read the title. Oh, I thought, this comic is all about credibility. Social credit, the one thing I cannot accumulate since I still hold to the theism that allows a simple animal like myself to understand the way that consciousness interacts with quantum physics. Social Currency that i cannot hold onto since I do not cower away from people's bad opinions of me. Social Currency that I cannot accumulate because I am not a clever double talker always weaving a group-thought instead of saying "I, Me, My" which is so frowned upon in this society of subtle backbiting and verbal sniping.

What stink is it to say "Ouch, please stop doing that, please apologize."

The last thing I want to do is punish Gabe and Tycho. It just hurts to see this guys face associated with dishonesty not because I think swarthyness should be protected above other looks, but because it is a hurtful stereotype that I have had to deal with my whole life.

Thank you.
I love you.
Please do not attack me for expressing myself. Thank you for reading this post.

There are plenty of PA comics where white people are given similar treatment. And the fact that you feel like I attacked you by saying you're being oversensitive about things is hmmm... what's the word I'm looking for here...

Johnny Videogames looks like he got the shit beat out of him till his face deformed.

I just tweeted and emailed @ tycho & gabe and asked them to use Randy Pinkstaff or their own characters.

It hurts to see a comic I like so much perpetuate a stereotype that a swarthy male is a con-man or whatever.

The fact thy the guy calls himself John Videogames or claims to have invented video games seems to get lost in just how ethnic/middle eastern/Mediterranean/ just over all swarth this guy looks.

Did a swarthy guy offend one of these dudes?

I mean I am sure they have black friends and Kiko has thick eye brows. I don't think Tycho and Gabe are bad people. I just wish they knew this is a hurtful stereotype and that perpetuating it isn't anymore funny then equating black face with happy servitude, simplicity or whatever.

What is love, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no mo'

Sagittarius Adequate Catharsis

You know what offends me most of all?

People who get bent out of shape and try to raise a huge stink over a silly webcomic, looking for the next controversy.

Since when is compassion a huge stink?

It just really made me feel a pit in my chest that this might be how my heroes see people who look like me, or who talk like me sometimes breaking English down in a different way then they are use to or that they would consider "proper".

Please forgive me for admiring these guys and their incredible success not just at finding a niche for expression and social acceptance and but also in attracting the right people into their family, and sustaining that family.

G&T are pretty amazing to some one like me.

When I finished reading today's comic I almost wept. I wondered if I was over sensitive but I realized that all my life I have had to de-emphasize my ethnicity. Over articulate my language. Shave my face and cut my hair short.

Learn all kinds of ways of unarmring barbed criticisms of my masculinity because my square jaw or hairiness made people feel inadequate or intimidated, or made them feel proud of being refined to the point where they are no longer carrying around unnecessary body hair since we all wear clothes right now or have small faces because we are civilized enough to control our food.

And then I read the title. Oh, I thought, this comic is all about credibility. Social credit, the one thing I cannot accumulate since I still hold to the theism that allows a simple animal like myself to understand the way that consciousness interacts with quantum physics. Social Currency that i cannot hold onto since I do not cower away from people's bad opinions of me. Social Currency that I cannot accumulate because I am not a clever double talker always weaving a group-thought instead of saying "I, Me, My" which is so frowned upon in this society of subtle backbiting and verbal sniping.

What stink is it to say "Ouch, please stop doing that, please apologize."

The last thing I want to do is punish Gabe and Tycho. It just hurts to see this guys face associated with dishonesty not because I think swarthyness should be protected above other looks, but because it is a hurtful stereotype that I have had to deal with my whole life.

Thank you.
I love you.
Please do not attack me for expressing myself. Thank you for reading this post.

There are plenty of PA comics where white people are given similar treatment. And the fact that you feel like I attacked you for saying you're being oversensitive about things is hmmm... what's the word I'm looking for here...

I don't feel like attacked me for being over sensitive. I think you are expressing your concern that I am attacking or causing a huge stink.

Sage_Catharsis, I actually didn't notice the looks of the guy the first time, but I do see what you're saying. However his speech, I believe, is not to indicate he is foreign, or speaks with an accent, or is a non native speaker. He's talking that way because he knows nothing about video games or what any of those terms actually mean. To reinforce for the reader that this is a scam.

There are plenty of PA comics where white people are given similar treatment. And the fact that you feel like I attacked you for saying you're being oversensitive about things is hmmm... what's the word I'm looking for here...

How white people are portrayed in the comics doesn't really affect whether or not this is an ethnic stereotype being used to trigger "shady" in the viewer's mind.

On the topic of how publisher-funded games can fail through no fault of the developer or game, here's a pair of articles on how the studio Free Radical collapsed, at least partially due to LucasArts cancelling Battlefield 3 on them and leaving Free Radical on the hook for 6 months of development.

"Stalling tactics," says Graeme Norgate. "If a publisher wants to find something that is wrong with a milestone, it's very easy for them to do so as there are so many grey areas within a deliverable. If the contract says, 'Graphics for level X to be release quality,' who can say what's release quality? And there you have it."

"LucasArts hadn't paid us for six months," says Norgate "and were refusing to pass a milestone so we would limp along until the money finally ran out...

LucasArts wanted to find an exit, and the balance of power swung firmly in its favour. "What we found out in 2008 is that your contract is only worth as much as how far you can pursue it in court," says Steve Ellis. "Say the contract is, 'If publisher wants out, they have to pay X million pounds to developer.' Well, what if they don't? What are you going to do about it?"

LucasArts presented Free Radical with a choice. "The amount of time [court] would take was more than the money we had left," says Ellis. "So in practice the publisher wants out, and what they do is offer a fraction of that amount. And you either accept a smaller payment and hope to pull through one way or another, or you don't accept the payment and go out of business quite quickly." Free Radical had no choice at all.

Sage_Catharsis, I actually didn't notice the looks of the guy the first time, but I do see what you're saying. However his speech, I believe, is not to indicate he is foreign, or speaks with an accent, or is a non native speaker. He's talking that way because he knows nothing about video games or what any of those terms actually mean. To reinforce for the reader that this is a scam.

I agree with this. His speech in the first panel fine, with perfect grammar. In the second panel he's talking about video-game or technology specific stuff, and he's clearly not understanding the terms. It's not foreign-speak, it's ignorance-speak.

Wait so is someone claiming to be upset because John Videogames looks like he might... be a race?

Do you know what a stereotype is?

do you know what a stereotype is? because i've gotta tell ya, i am not seeing one in this comic.

save maybe the stereotype of a generally-inept, disheveled, unprofessional, anonymous person trying to use kickstarter to reel in suckers of all races, genders, creeds, and gaming platforms with a scam.

i'm honestly a bit more sensitive to racial stereotyping and the like, and i honestly cannot see what you're claiming here.