More borrowing, more international aid spending and main Foreign policy will be Nuclear Disarmament [multi-lateral].

Jesus...

I just cannot understand why he focusses so much on preaching to the choir. We all know he's for nuclear disarmament, why not cover some foreign policy that might appeal slightly more to voters who aren't already fully on board? Makes absolutely no sense.

That's Thornberry talking about Multi-Lateral though.

Corbyn's Unilateral (although he keeps failing to convince the party of this...wasn't his last idea submarines without missles - so sub construction jobs are safe?)

Rocsteady wrote:Really hoping support for independence picks back up in the near future. Let's take the (probably large) economic hit and get on with trying to build a more equal social democracy.

Although how large that hit will be is also dependent on just how far the UK's finances as a whole plummet as a result of A50 being enacted.

It could potentially be an even more difficult sell next time. It would be an even bigger risk to break from the UK, and go it completely alone. EU membership for Scotland isn't even on the table for discussion at the moment and I don't see them gaining membership for a decade at the very, very least if at all.

If Scotland does have another referendum, it will be interesting to see the arguments used against it by pro-brexit people. A risk to the economy? Greater sovereignty?

The economic factors are completely different for one thing, you can't compare Brexit and Indyref2.

Having said that, I personally think Scotland should go independent as it is clear the current political system doesn't work properly given the political divide and I think they were utterly shafted by the UK government with "the pledge".

captain red dog wrote:The economic factors are completely different for one thing, you can't compare Brexit and Indyref2.

The actual economic arguments might be different, but the way people pick and choose them when it suits them is exactly the same.

What I am talking about is pro-Brexit, pro-UK politicians/journalists who were happy to quote warnings from economic experts as fact when it came to Scottish independence but were also happy to declare that economists were just “scaremongering” when it came to Brexit. The same people who were all for keeping the UK political system that has unelected Lords when Scotland had a referendum, but who seemed outraged by a lack of democracy in the EU. The same types who thought Scotland should stay in the UK that is utterly dominated by England, but who were furious that the EU “tells us what to do”.

A Labour source has been in touch to say that, when John McDonnell ruled out an early shadow cabinet reshuffle on the Today programme this morning (see 8.31am), he was not intending to give out that message. So it is possible that we might get a shadow cabinet reshuffle soon after the party conference after all.

captain red dog wrote:The economic factors are completely different for one thing, you can't compare Brexit and Indyref2.

The actual economic arguments might be different, but the way people pick and choose them when it suits them is exactly the same.

What I am talking about is pro-Brexit, pro-UK politicians/journalists who were happy to quote warnings from economic experts as fact when it came to Scottish independence but were also happy to declare that economists were just “scaremongering” when it came to Brexit. The same people who were all for keeping the UK political system that has unelected Lords when Scotland had a referendum, but who seemed outraged by a lack of democracy in the EU. The same types who thought Scotland should stay in the UK that is utterly dominated by England, but who were furious that the EU “tells us what to do”.

I don't disagree with you, but on the face of it a lot of those people were also in Remain issuing the economic warnings about Brexit so it is a mixed bag. I also think Indyref1 had an impact on Brexit where a large part of the country knew the lies told about the risks of independence and I think that influenced the vote.

Both referendums have damaged faith in politics in my opinion. The political system needs an absolute overhaul with proper regional representation if the UK is to stay together and a completely elected upper house. I have no idea why the Lords is still even an issue, that should have been 100% elected decades ago.

Even now, I still think it's likely Corbyn will cling on until 2020. He just seems determined to try, even if he must surely be aware that he's the Tories best chance of staying in power to 2025.

Does make you wonder where Labour would be with someone like Chuka Umana, Dan Jarvis or basically anyone else. Instead you get Labour MPs becoming Mayors or leaving politics entirely because they don't see a future with Labour in charge for at least another 8 years.