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In the years that I was a Gamestop manager — dark days in which the sun was blotted from the sky and malevolence slouched through the halls of dingy shopping malls in the guise of poison-tongued high schoolers – I took quiet exception with countless official policies and products. Eventually I purged myself of these demons in a number of articles back around 2005, a very public exorcism which discussed at length how the company conducted its business and more importantly how talking about it made me feel a hell of a lot better, or at least cleaner.

In all that time, however, the one widely lodged complaint for which I could never really generate enthusiastic ire was on the matter of used games. To my addled mind, used games continue to seem like a pretty nice idea; a prime example of how the rare capitalistic initiative can benefit both retailer and consumer.

If you are a developer or publisher, I get it. I sympathize; really, I do. There’s a big damn hole in the bucket, dear Liza, and Gamestop chairman Dick Fontaine is standing there unapologetically holding a drill. But as a consumer I have to say that in the first, second and third place I’m watching out for numero uno, and I like not spending money. Or more precisely spending a little less money, so I continue to be baffled when well-meaning game buyers rise in a single voice against the anathema of used game sales.

Let’s not sugar coat it, when you trade in your game at Gamestop you are getting a return dramatically below the retained market value of your product. The company then turns around, often without doing anything but printing up a sticker, and resells your game at a substantial increase. As a trade-in customer, I accept when I walk in with my trades that I am substituting value for convenience. Yes, I could probably, nay certainly, demand higher through Ebay, but honest to God who has that kind of time any more?

That said, I don’t think there’s a big “A Ha!” moment when the monster profit margin is revealed between the cost at which the retailer buys the game from you and the price at which they resell the game. Here’s a hint, it’s big — really big. It is, by far, the biggest margin in the stores, but — and here’s the key — only if they manage to sell it.

The profit potential on used games is without question the goal of a strong used games market, but the real benefit to consumers in the deal is that we have an unlimited market for our used games. In short, Gamestop never says no.

Outside of clearly broken games or product for systems that aren’t sold anymore, if you walk in with a current or nearly current generation console game, you get something. It may be pennies on the dollar, but it is guaranteed. Imagine, for a moment, the monumental overhead and inventory nightmares this creates on a national level. How many beat up copies of Kameo are sitting in some Indiana Jones warehouse never to be sold? How much loss will the company have to soak up on Tony Hawk: Ride buyback as consumers looked to sell quickly while the value was high.

I don’t argue that Gamestop doesn’t make quite a bit of money by reselling games like Dragon Age or Borderlands, but the error that many armchair critics make is in not realizing how much of that money goes against the loss on Fusion Frenzy 2 or CSI game trades.

Still, it’s not like the proposition hasn’t worked out. This is a little bit like oil companies complaining about the cost of refinery and drilling development as they make tens of billions in a quarter, or pharmaceutical companies cashing in only on designer drugs for profitable illnesses … except of course, we are talking about a luxury product whose stagnant price point hasn’t kept up with inflation for decades. But, I’m not equivocating or making excuses, because let’s face it. Gamestop has been rolling in the money pool for a few years now.

Even if the Gamestops of the world pulled in monster profit on every single used game taken in, I still can’t get behind the consumer based fury. I am a fan of choice, of being offered the option of a reduced price. The math behind how Gamestop manages their inventory doesn’t factor into the question of would I like a given game for $59.99 or $54.99.

This is the point in the conversation, I suppose, where hearts bleed for the starving developers who never see the profit of those resell transactions. Bleeding hearts which I assume are asleep at the switch in the discussion of Ebay and other consumer resell avenues. Bleeding hearts which seem to get a nice healthy clotting agent when issues of Day One DLC or the proclaimed need for price point hikes to address the rising costs of development and piracy issues come up.

Forgive my cynicism, but a lot of the arguments against trade-ins and used game sales seem awfully convenient. There is something, which I admit I understand in my amygdala if not my more cognitive brain centers, about knowing that when you hand over your $50 bucks to the counter jockey, you are paying for something at double the price the company bought at. What I don’t understand is why it is better to buy essentially the same product for five or ten dollars more just because it bites into the margin of your supplier.

And, that's the point. It seems totally unreasonable to me to reject, even demand the elimination of a lower price point option simply because you don't like how much money the provider is making on the deal. It is a gut check reaction that seems more based out of an anti-Gamestop cultural undercurrent than anything else. If, for example Valve offered a way to resell your games back to them through Steam -- and this is a genius idea that I endorse with what can only be termed 'gusto' -- and buy through a digital used market, I have a hard time imagining the same fiery torches and proverbial pitchforks being raised.

I am willing to concede the argument from those who simply prefer a product in pristine, new condition. I have no beef with them, and even join their ranks on many games, but that doesn’t discredit the idea of having choice. Ultimately, used sales work to the benefit of both retailer and consumers keeping costs low and retailers competitive. Yes, one side usually comes out of the deal a little better, but that’s the way of good business.

For all the things that Gamestop and other retailers deserve to be criticized for, this once perhaps we should just take our $5.00 off and go about our business.

I actually buy all my games at a local Play N Trade. I used GS in the article because they are so recognized, but this is a growing retailer that I endorse as an excellent alternative.

While Gamestop has a dominant position in the used retail box store market, there are still plenty of game buying options. I agree that it would be ideal if Best Buy or another prominent specialty retailer provided a healthy competition, but that's really beyond the scope of what I'm saying.

My point is that it's better to have the Gamestop used choice, even under current prices and coditions, than no used choice at all, and I think there's a healthy group of people that might argue against that.

The thing about smart people is they seem like crazy people to dumb people -- Thing I saw on the Internet

While Gamestop has a dominant position in the used retail box store market, there are still plenty of game buying options.

There are fewer than I used to enjoy. A whole mess of game stores in Fresno closed, to be replaced with more and more GameStops. From the time when I started college there to the time I left, the overall number of game stores in town held steady, but GameStop's percentage of them went from about 25% to nearly 100%.

In most cases, the used offerings of GameStop were a significant downgrade from the stores they replaced. The older stores carried more than just the past generation of used titles, and even the recent titles were more broadly represented and sometimes even carried a better price difference vs. new than GameStop's $5. It was a sad day when the store that had boxes of old Saturns and Jaguars to dig through was replaced by yet another cylon GameStop. There Are Many Copies.

It is, by far, the biggest margin in the stores, but — and here’s the key — only if they manage to sell it.

Exactly. For as long as Gamestop has been in business, I can count on one hand how many used games I've bought from them. Clearly I am in the minority. Granted, these days I am a mostly PC gamer, but if I was a console gamer, I would always use eBay to buy used games - never Gamestop. To use your example of Dragon Age, as I type this, there is an auction for a "like new" copy for the 360 (from a 99.9% positive feedback seller with a 14,060 rating) with a buy it now price of $39.99 + $3 shipping. Why anyone would rather pay $55 + sales tax at Gamestop is beyond my comprehension.

If, for example Valve offered a way to resell your games back to them through Steam -- and this is a genius idea that I endorse with what can only be termed 'gusto' -- and buy through a digital used market, I have a hard time imagining the same fiery torches and proverbial pitchforks being raised.

With all the sales Steam does (especially the annual holiday sale), I also don't see why anyone would buy a "used" digital copy of a game for $5 less than retail price. If you want a game when it's released, you'll buy it when it's released. At full price. If you're not in a hurry, and are willing to wait for used copies to be available, you'd be a fool not to wait for a special sale of a "new" copy, either at Steam or another digital distributor, which would surely be less than $5 off retail.

Steam: [GWJ]MeatMan | "Now I know where to go if I have a hankering for testicles." –Higgledy

Great article. Just yesterday I traded in four games for about sixty dollars in store credit. Four games, by the way, from that pile of shame that will never get finished. I cut my losses, grabbed some credit, and will redeem that credit for a shiny new or less than shiny used game. Meanwhile, my pile of shame on my Steam games list will never bring me any compensation. Five bucks here, ten buck there, and now I have a hundred dollars worth of games that have yet to be finished and, in some cases, not even played.

I think the trade-in advantage will one day, in the near future, come to an end. The success of Steam and the expansion of console online stores will eventually cut Gamestop out of the picture.

I like your thoughtful take on the used game market. As a general rule I am pro-used games but anti-Gamestop. The anti-Gamestop sentiment comes primarily from a number of other customer service issues that I run into frequently in their stores. Things like selling opened copies as "new," pushy staff and what is generally a poor consumer experience every time I visit. Bottom line I don't like the stores or the environments they provide.

On the pro-used side of things I am a big supporter of game trading services and our very own trading post has never steered me wrong.

What I don’t understand is why it is better to buy essentially the same product for five or ten dollars more just because it bites into the margin of your supplier.

Out of spite, perhaps. The first time I noticed the measly $5 difference between a new and used copy of some random PSX game, I felt like all the store felt for me was utter contempt.

I hate GameStop to an illogical, feral degree, but I am a big fan of used game sales as a concept entirely divorced from them. On principle, I do not visit their stores or take advantage of their pre-order exclusives, but I love bouncing down to the local Mom & Pop store that fills the same function while being friendlier (personally and monetarily) to the customer.

I buy nearly all my games new, because I'd rather have a game without someone's Cheeto dust all over it, but I don't have a problem with used games. I've traded in games, and will continue to do so in the future, although I tend to keep most of my games since the start of this generation.

Really, for me, it comes down to being able to afford to buy nearly any game I want to play new, without giving up my old games. If I was short on cash, I'd have taken in a bunch of my older titles to save me some money on Mass Effect 2 today. I didn't have to, so I got a new copy delivered from Amazon.

I don't get the ire of the guys who rail against Game Stop's trade in values, though. Sure, there are better options, but most of them aren't nearly as instantly gratifying. You can keep selling things on eBay until the end of time.

"You realise that you're questioning the internal logic of a game in which a fat plumber rides a dinosaur in space?" Jonman

Legion, I show 2 Play N Trades in or near Fresno. One in some town named Clovis, and another just off Hwy 99 north of town near the corner of Brawley and Clinton.

The one in Clovis is new, opened after I left, part of the big expansion at Sierra Vista Mall. It's also a tiny hole in the wall that carries about 5 games at a time. I was excited when my wife told me about a new, non-GameStop store opening at Sierra Vista, only to walk out quite disappointed when I visited.

As for the other, I know you've probably never been to Fresno, so you don't know where Brawley and Clinton is. It's the edge of town and on the other side of the highway. There's nothing out there worth going to, and the highways are set up such that you never, ever have to go there. Knowing the area, I doubt it's the kind of nice retail experience you enjoy at your local place. But I may venture out there next time I'm in Fresno just for sheer curiosity now. If I can remember how to get out there...

Of course, the point is that these two stores exist on the two extreme edges of Fresno. While the heart of town is chock full of GameStops where once there were more interesting stores.

I have a Play N Trade near my house. I have 5 Gamestops near my house. I also have 2 other options that focus more on the old school gamer, which is a breath of fresh air. I don't mind spending that extra $5 to get a game new as I simply dislike the Gamestop model. I have seen too many people getting ripped off to dare support their used game market. If I want a new game, I typically try to get it from Amazon or even the publisher's site. If I want a used game, I MIGHT go to Play N Trade, but usually get it on Ebay/Craigslist/etc. By negotiating a person to person transaction, I'm helping someone else (giving them fair value for a title) and I'm also saving money (I'm not condoning the $5 off scheme with my dollar). For me, this is the sanest and fairest method. Buy new or buy from a real person. That's my motto.

I was browsing in a Gamestop last night and I put my finger on what bugs me the most about that place. It's not that their profit margins are ludicrous. It's not that all the kids in the store were getting duped into thinking they got a good deal on that used copy of Modern Warfare. No. It's knowing that this is the way it's always been and it probably won't change any time soon, at least until digital distribution becomes THE thing. The philosophy of Gamestop is unapologetic and steadfast: It's not illegal to profit off the ignorance of your consumer base. $55 for a used copy of Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2? C'mon. $39.99 for a used copy of NHL 2k10 on Wii? That's the NEW price at Best Buy (not exactly the last bastion of amazing bargains these days). In fact, I didn't see anything on the shelves at Gamestop that I couldn't find cheaper elsewhere (new or used). You're NOT getting a good deal there. Then again, I guess good deal is in the eye of the beholder. Something tells me Gamestop is all too aware of this and that, ultimately, is what makes me feel dirty going in there in the first place.

I have seen too many people getting ripped off to dare support their used game market.

This is where I start to get hung up. Define "ripped off"? Am I ripped off being when I traded in Brutal Legend for $25 because I didn't want to deal with the hassle of Ebay and I knew that I was done with it?

Also, let's not kid ourselves. Ebay may be a lot of things, but it's not a pure person to person transaction. A lot of the times you are still dealing with a company, just on a different scope, and at least with Gamestop I have some form of immediate recourse if the deal goes wrong.

The thing about smart people is they seem like crazy people to dumb people -- Thing I saw on the Internet

Good read. My complaint with GameStop is that they don't offer enough value for me to think it a worthwhile trade, and I see this as a direct result of them not having significant competition in the market. There may be smaller shops here and there, like Play N Trade, but the vast majority are GameStop, so GameStop sets the prices.

This is why I love Amazon's new trade-in service. True, it takes a little bit longer (a week as opposed to 10 seconds), but on average I get better value for what I give them. I only hope that more competitive avenues open up, ones with the same convenience level, because then the perceived value may increase.

I don’t argue that Gamestop doesn’t make quite a bit of money by reselling games like Dragon Age or Borderlands, but the error that many armchair critics make is in not realizing how much of that money goes against the loss on Fusion Frenzy 2 or CSI game trades.

QFT.

The local EBGames does a brisk trade in used games. Currently having one of their "Bring in 3, get 1 free" deals. However, the downside (for them) is that they may end up with their current situation, which is about 4 feet of shelf space (with the games packed sideways so that you only see the spine) of used copies of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed sitting there, not likely to *ever* be sold.

I have seen too many people getting ripped off to dare support their used game market.

This is where I start to get hung up. Define "ripped off"? Am I ripped off being when I traded in Brutal Legend for $25 because I didn't want to deal with the hassle of Ebay and I knew that I was done with it?

Nope. Your transaction is money + time + effort, not just money. What makes sense to you depends on how much you value the time and effort parts of that.

That's why I scratch my head over people who line up on Black Friday to save 33% on a DVD box set. For these people, their time and effort are apparently of no real value, to be traded so willingly for a decent but not earth-shattering sale price. (I have done BF before, during college, mostly because I had never done it before and was bored. Once was enough.)

Yes, I could probably, nay certainly, demand higher through Ebay, but honest to God who has that kind of time any more?

Most of us spend 8 hours in front of a computer a day, away from our beloved video games. For me, the selling and buying of used copies of games is half the fun, and a pleasant workday distraction. By using ebay/half.com, I am able to pretty much make my gaming habits self-supportive,buying low and selling high, so that prevents almost all wife-aggro that I would otherwise incur while feeding my habit. I have recently started using switchgames, and that is a great option too.

That said - great article.

Q-Stone2E3: SallyN is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

Wembley wrote:

The quickest way to SallyNasty's heart is through a collectibles guide.

I don't hate gamestop because they sell used games. I hate them for the following:

Who else has had the following experience at game stop?

You walk into the store, pick out a game, and go up to the counter to buy it. Miraculously, they have a copy, and after assuring the checkout guy that you don't want any subscriptions or to pre-order anything, another employee steps behind the counter, and out of nowhere, asks if you've played some random old game. You say yes or no, it doesn't matter. They launch into a sincere sounding lecture about how they loved the game, and the things that were cool about it, and you nod along and say, "yeah, sounds neat." And they pause awkwardly and say "You know, the sequel is coming out soon." and then look at you expectantly.

Or had the following lie sputtered by the clerk when you explain that you prefer not to buy used games because you like to support the studios that make them

you know, we give the studios a cut of the profits from used game sales

The reason I hate game stop is because they're willing to sputter any nonsense that they can come up with to get my money. They're willing to do anything except stock and sell games that I wish to buy. Apparently, they hired me to be their inventory manager without my knowing it. The number one way to ensure you never get my business it to treat me like a #@$%(&! moron.

People respond very strongly to whatever they consider to be unfair. This doesn't seem that different from the "Ultimatum Game" where an experimenter gives Subject One $10, and Subject One makes an offer to Subject Two about how to split the money. If Subject Two agrees, they both get the money. If Subject Two disagrees, they both get nothing.

Even though obviously Subject Two starts with $0, they'll still reject offers that they feel favor Subject One unfairly, preferring a situation where neither party gets anything to one where they got "ripped off." If I'm remembering right, it was once the split got to something like $8 / $2 where more people started saying "screw it, neither of us get a dime."

Similarly, there are people who will tell Gamestop "Screw it, I'm not saving $5 so you can make $30." The $5 isn't worth the "cost" of the "unfairness" to them. It might not make sense from a purely self-interested standpoint, but it does make sense in the context of behavior in similar situations.

Buy new on Amazon for a discount (plus $10 credit often), play the game, sell back the copy for credit, and keep the cycle going. It works out for me. I often buy more games than I can find time to play, so it allows me to save some money. The system works for me. I just got Mass Effect 2 with a $10 off credit, plus the Amazon discount with release day delivery. A good deal. When I am done I will take it to Gamestop, get $15 in credit and have made out well in the transaction. GS can then sell it to someone else for $55.

Also...if you really want to save money and can make your purchases way after release. Trolling some of the used game prices at Gamestop yileds some great games for really cheap prices. Bioshock for under $10...sounds like a Steam sale to me. As long as I get a benefit from the relationship, what is the big deal.

"That's why I scratch my head over people who line up on Black Friday to save 33% on a DVD box set. For these people, their time and effort are apparently of no real value, to be traded so willingly for a decent but not earth-shattering sale price."

I'm having a hard time squaring this article with your previous article talking about what a great thing DLC is because it supports the developers directly, and another where you were mourning the passing of the "New EA philosophy" which died because of poor sales. And don't try to argue that they're unrelated. Part of the reason that games have such a short sales tail as they do now has to be the used game market.

I was going to do my usual Wooo Goozex! thing, but I just found out that the dude who was supposed to be sending me Prototype has, in fact, not sent Prototype but instead took my points, made a quick acquisition and closed his account.

I'm pretty sure I'll be reimbursed, but that's 2 weeks of waiting with no payoff. Gamestop is looking more shiny in this light.

i tend to buy new games...er...new but I'll happily pick up some olders stuff second hand, and I've no problem whatsoever trading in stuff I'm finished with.

I have enough games sitting around half-finished or even unopened, I find it hard to justify wasting shelf space on the stuff I'm finished with and I'm certain will never play again - Darksiders being a recent example: played through twice, 100% achievements, unlikely to have any significant DLC...as much as I liked it, realistically I'm NEVER going back to that game, so it's on the trade-in pile towards whatever looks interesting down the road.

That said, I don't think the local stores here sound anywhere near as bad as Gamestop sounds (especially in terms of the "over the counter hard-sell stuff" which I rarely encounter).