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156: Women, Rage, And The Sexual Shadow with Eva Clay And Tobin Zivon

Sep 14, 2018

For millennia, women have been conditioned to suppress their anger, borne of well-founded consequences such as violence, exile, and even death. Most women carry not only a lifetime of our own rage, but the ancestral traumas of our foremothers. and yet, anger is a natural, healthy part of relating. When we suppress it, anger gets relegated to the “shadow” and wreaks havoc in our sexuality. Eva and Tobin share specific skills on how to bring it to the light for healing.

156: Women, Rage, And The Sexual Shadow with Eva Clay And Tobin Zivon

I’m very happy to produce Six Vulnerable Conversations Between a Man and Woman, between Eva Clay and Tobin Zivon about the concept of women, rage, and their sexual shadow. I am so excited to produce the show and the results these fine teachers are producing.

This is Secrets of Sacred Sex Mastery for Men.

With that topic, it’s fun and juicy. I’m happy to be diving in this direction with you.

We’re going to have a delicious and invigorating conversation about sacred sex mastery for men. I can talk to this as a woman who makes love with men primarily and what I like and what I don’t. Tobin is masterful at helping men get there.

I feel like this could be a power team. My ears, heart, and whole body perk up when I hear what Eva Clay has to say or has to offer to us, men, to being masterful lovers. I feel myself going into that position of receiving, listening and being a student, but I will also offer what I discovered along the way and the process I’m in. I feel like if we can up level the men on the planet and the direction of being more truly masterful lovers, we have found a key to changing the entire planet. It is one of the places where if you got the essence of what you and I teach. This is not just about imposing good skills, it’s not becoming a better cook or skateboarder or something like that. If you get the essence of becoming a masterful lover, as a man, you become embodied in a new way. You become a different man in the process of becoming an authentically better lover.

Suppressed Anger: I feel like if we can up level the men on the planet and the direction of being more truly masterful lovers, we have found a key to changing the entire planet.

How does being a better lover makes a better man?

It’s a revolution in the way a man is. If you take a spectrum, let’s say a 100 or 1,000 or however many men and you put them in the category of the lover, not just skilled and not just good at things, but a master level lover where women swoon when they’re in that guy’s presence. They’re made love by from that man. Let’s put it at a spectrum and we’ll call it White Belt to Black Belts. Let’s say we had a bunch of white belts and those out-of-touch guys, these guys are cut-off. They’re more corporate-feeling men or you see them, even in politics, there’s a tightness to a man who’s a white belt lover.

My sense is they’re cut-off from essential aspects of their own authentic beingness. Their real essential selves are contracted and constricted in ways that are cutting them off, not only from being good lovers, but from walking through the world where they are in touch with the beauty, majesty, and magic of the world. They are desirous of protecting it and serving it. Once you become a truly masterful lover, you are in service to the feminine in a way that is not like, “I’m going to please the goddess or be good. I’ll be a good boy or a good man.”

It comes from the depth of your soul that you can’t help but truly want to serve the feminine in a very genuine, deeply embodied way. It would change the world. It would revolutionize how men walk through the world and love their women. Women are going to be happier, juicer and yummier. They’re more fulfilled, they’ll have this amazing glow in their eyes, and they’re spreading that to everybody in the world. When you’re that deep of a man or a “lover,” you couldn’t hurt a fly and you wouldn’t hurt the planet. You’re here as a protector and a steward of the feminine. It goes across the board.

When I hear you speaking, this is potentially inflammatory or provocative for you to say this, but I know what you mean and I want to offer my translation of it. That is the corporate-type or the white belt that seems very tight.

I’m glad you’re highlighting that. I want to be careful to not just stereotype men who are being badasses in their job.

I’m not saying it’s politically incorrect to say that, I’m saying you’re absolutely right. Why does that archetype exist? It’s this quality of tension, tightness, and stress in their body. What does that do? It cuts us off from vital life force. They’re not in the transmission of source energy, which is ultimately what makes you a masterful lover. That’s what I heard when you said that and I wanted to give you an opportunity to clarify, “What is this man?”

It doesn’t matter what job or position that person is hanging out at, once you have the eyes to see it or the antenna, which all women do if they’re in touch with themselves. Most women are a little ahead of us, men, on the spectrum of touch and that healthy-bodied ability to feel and listen with those receptors. It’s like the snake’s tongue, it’s online with the environment. Most women are very in touch with that aspect of themselves, especially when they walk in and feel a man, they can just feel it.

It’s scintillating, a live way of walking through the world, being available and receptive to touch. It does have a juicier and more bodied flavor. Most men on this planet and in our culture are like this for many reasons, but in the shortest nutshell and offering it as an attempt at describing why, it’s our conditioning or culture. It’s how we’re raised and how we relate to sexuality in this culture and in this world. It all comes down to being secure, safe, good and right. Even the guys who flip to be a little bad or a rebellious, they have, in the core of their conditioning body, this tightness and constriction like, “I got to tighten up, get everything in place in a certain way, and make the world go the way I want it to go or else I’m going to be failing. I’m going to be at the mercy of forces beyond my control that is going to hurt me a lot.”

It’s this imperviousness to being vulnerable, responsive and impactable in your heart and being. That’s a primary foundation for any man to move in the direction of true mastery when it comes to showing up in a bedroom or on a dance floor or you name it, as a lover. This is the foundational thing that gets us in the door.

I know that there are men reading this and, on some level, identifying that there’s a tightness or tension in their body. They’re carrying so much of these expectations as a man. These roles that they’re carrying and the context that they’re living in, come into their bedroom.

We almost cannot because we’re walking around and these tension patterns and these ways that became so habitual. It’s literally like ice.

It’s for self-protection.

It’s automatic. It’s even in the unconscious mind. These are self-protection ice layers that we’re learning to soften and dissolve out of, we’re getting it more malleable, permeable, fluid and juicy that that allows us to inhabit our body in a completely different way.

Some men reading this want to know, “How do I become a masterful lover? Tobin, Eva, tell me what to do.” They want to know specific person skills. They want the blueprint. I try to teach them in that way when I talk to men.

I want to extrapolate something that you said that is important. You talked about the antenna and the snake’s tongue. Women have spidey senses. This is how we define what is a masterful lover and what is sacred sex versus regular sex. What makes sex sacred? These are important distinctions to make in this conversation. If you’re reading this and you’re not maybe exactly tapped into a spiritual practice or it’s not your path or it’s not your thing, you’re maybe curious but you dabble, how I distinguish a truly sacred sexual act versus one that is not is the quality of empathy that you exchange with your partner.

When there’s a strong presence of empathy and attunement with your partner, that’s when the brain, body, consciousness and nervous system on every level, lights up. That’s when it feels better in our body. Our brain literally releases different sets of hormones, opioids, and endorphins that is in response to the level of empathy that our bodies feel with each other. We’re not going to teach you techniques and we’re not going to tell you how to stroke her pussy or grab her nipples or any of that. We’re going to talk more about essence, quality, and the invisible airwaves that transpired between you and them partner because that’s what makes hot sex.

The technique is a bonus. We’re going to touch on some ways to play in exciting, yummy and good ways all around. The foundation is exactly what you’re saying and I love your words. Empathy and attunement, we’re inviting a man. Wherever you regularly hang out or whatever your general level of showing up, let’s say you walk into a room or you interact with a woman in a conversation or you are holding our hand walking down the street or you’re in the bedroom and you’re making love, you’re kissing or going toward or fully engaged in intercourse, at every stage of that dance where you’re hanging out in these all-important and semi elusive, for most men, qualities of being is the foundation. How can you be a little more available in your being and your body?

Suppressed Anger: This practice of being here, being in your body, and being in your heart. That’s the direction we ultimately want to move.

First and foremost, I also encourage guys to literally feel your heart and they might say, “What does that mean? What do you mean by my heart?” Call to mind the last time you felt touched, sad, moved and loved. You can even do it through memory, you can breathe in that direction a few more degrees than you were prior to remembering to do this practice, this practice of being here, being in your body and being in your heart. That’s the direction we ultimately want to move.

In any given moment, you can only do what you can do, but you can do what you can do. You can move in that direction a tiny bit more even the quality of your hand, touch, eye contact. How are you in your heart? How are you in your eyes? How are you in your hands? How are you in your breath, pelvis, legs and toes? I invite guys to start there, to move in that direction in any way you possibly can. In some ways, that’s a technique, but it’s beyond technique. It’s the foundation of where we start.

I imagined some men might be wondering, “Why do I need to feel my body in order to feel her body?”

Let’s both take turns answering your questions because they are the doorways into this development of moving toward being more and more black belt over time or at any given moment. To me, the answer to that question is the only way you could feel her body is if you’re fully in your body. There’s no other way. The more you’re in your head, techniques and in the momentum of like, “I saw this on the porn. I’m going to do her this way,” the more disconnected you are from the very nerve endings that give you the capacity to feel the beauty, mystery, and magic of this miracle that you, as the blessed one, are getting to experience so directly called a woman on planet earth or a man or whatever it is that you’re making love within that moment, that’s a miracle. That’s a living, breathing miracle. The only way to truly feel, touch and know that is to be fully inhabiting your own existence at that moment through yourselves, nerve endings and presence in your heart, belly and fingertips.

I’m going to speak from my personal perspective. I’m going to step out of being a teacher and talk about my experience as a woman, which is what men want to hear anyway.

It’s such a gift to us.

We feel turned on directly commensurate to the degree of tension you carry in your body if you’re not feeling your body and what your body does. When I say feel your body, I want to be specific. It means that you have sensation running through your body and that you know, sense, and feel where your body is in space and time. It’s a sense of presence and it’s a quality of attention that you give to your own body. That’s what creates embodiment essentially. When you’re not in your body and not having sensation in your body, your body creates tension or body armor around different parts of your body in order to protect it in case it gets whacked and you don’t feel it. It’s its way of saying, “If you’re not going to feel this, we’re going to wrap tension around the muscles, contract you, and make you fight to protect your dumb self in case you fall.”

“Get hit or hurt or in this case, even emotionally hit or hurt.” We’re not only doing this on the physical level, but we’re also doing it emotionally. It translates physical tightness in our whole system. We’re afraid and most men are afraid, “I’m doing my best. What if I hurt her? What if I do something she doesn’t like and she shames me or she tells me I’m wrong or bad?” There’s a predetermined tightness and we’re holding those patterns. The first and biggest invitation that I’m saying and I hear you saying is, “How do we relax that sauce and come back the other direction towards a more fully inhabited body sensing from the inside out?” That’s where it all starts.

Sensing from the inside out, that’s key. I’m always coaching men on this, this is maybe one of the most important things I can say about men and sex, “Whatever you have alive inside your body, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. When you enter us, you put that inside of us, too.” Imagine that through your phallus, cock or lingam, you’re injecting us with your current state of being. As women, our bodies are wired in our nervous system, neurologically and on every level to read, “What is inside this man? Do I want that in me as well?” When you come to a woman, if you come to an intimate experience with purity and clarity of heart, mind and soul with admiration, respect and genuine love, we will receive that from you more fully. It will embellish our pleasure body. That’s what gives us pleasure.

If you come to us with stress from the day, anger at the boss, frustration with your finances, feeling lacking, not good enough, feeling ambivalent about us, not seeing and recognizing us, that’s what you put into us. It doesn’t feel good. She might accept you, you might enter her, but the level of pleasure that you offer her is going to become very limited in a way that she experiences you. You will not be a black belt lover. A white belt, in my opinion, is not having the consciousness about what you’re bringing to your partner.

When you’re fully inhabited in your body like we’ve been saying, we then feel that. We feel your presence and we want that. It allows us to relax into safety and it relaxes our frontal cortex, our vigilance center, or thinking parts of our brain. It puts us in our limbic center, which is the pleasure part of our brain, the more primitive, emotional part of our brain. You don’t even need a technique to do this. You don’t even need to touch me to do this. All you need to do is to be present with me and hold that energy of consciousness, awareness, and embodiment.

I love you sharing this as a woman, what you love and what you want. It is the biggest gift for us. Luckily, I’ve been at this a while and the positive feedback loop of it gets better and better over time. For the guys, if we can’t give you techniques, we can at least give you inspiration that’s worth it. There’s nothing as fulfilling. Whether you’re on a spiritual path or not, this can be a path of full transformation and awakening, not to mention fulfillment and goodness along the way.

Can we talk on this subject of communication and how we can support men in having easy, relaxing, easeful, and erotic communication with women because this is so big?

We might, in that case, want to coach the women too at the same time because it is a dance. Communication and making love is a dance. It takes two to tango. If we can up-level all of us in that direction of having the conversations and communication that even moves us in that direction, it is one of the biggest keys. I love that you’re bringing it in.

This particular session is for men. The reason I bring that up is that I coach a lot of men and they are constantly asking me for communication tools. They want to talk about what their lover wants. They want to listen and they know how to ask them. They’re anxious about it. They’re not sure. How do I read her body? How can I tell what she likes and what she doesn’t? My answer is typically, “Ask her.”

That’s what I was going to say. The main technique of communication is courage and the trust that that’s exactly what she wants. The feedback loop of verbal communication is a pathway to being able to read the feminine and the responsiveness without so much verbal, but the pathway to have that openness is step one. You can’t go wrong if you get in your heart, get in your desire to serve, and ask a question. You tell me, I want to hear you tell us that.

Can you give us an example of your most useful go-to-phrases? What do you find yourself offering on the lovemaking scenario?

I’ll just put myself there.

It’s a vulnerable conversation.

One of my go-to statements is, “How does that feel, baby? How does that feel to you right now? Anything you’d like more of? Anything you’d like less of? How’s this feeling? Just let me in.” Just share, invite and ask. For a man, one of the keys to communicating is not only what you say but how you say it. It’s that presence, care and actual interest in wanting to get some feedback. Even if the feedback is, “You’re not doing it so well right now. I’d rather you do this.” That’s hard for men. We are taught that we’re supposed to already be the black belt lover or we’re supposed to be badasses, a big thing that we’re getting over is this force field in our mind that says we’re already supposed to be great. If you can just eradicate that income from what in Zen they call Beginner’s Mind. I like to call it Beginner’s Heart or in this case Beginner’s Cock.

Suppressed Anger: One of the keys to communicating is not only what you say but how you say it.

It’s having this beginner lover mind, which is like, “You’re a new being. You’re a new creature. Even if I’ve made love to this woman a thousand times, coming to that interaction right now as if she’s a brand-new person.” It’s going on what you already know, but you have to be willing to learn, evolve and grow right here, right now because that’s more real than you know her. Women are, in my experience, ever-evolving and blossoming creatures. Depending on so many things, they’re evolving and growing over time in general, but during the course of their cycle, any given day and where they’re at that moment, we are meeting a very fresh miracle. You want to be super open to that verbal channel, “How are you doing right now? How’s this feeling? What would you like a little more over or less of or different?” Those are the basic questions to be asking all along the way.

We’re trying to hit that sweet spot. You’re not just in pleaser mode either, you want to bring some capacity of what’s in your body. Trust yourself and trust the impulses you have from a place of responsivity, listening, and erring on the side of a little confidence so that you’re bringing this empowered presence there. That’s a little bit of the panther presence that I talk about in my teachings because we need a little bit of that panther presence like, “I got you.”

It’s the aspect of you that could pounce and take a woman like, “I am going to turn you over, bite the back of your neck, and give you what I have to give you.” It’s potent energy but at the exact same time paradoxically, you’re there as very responsive and willing to read not only the body language and the responsiveness of her being in her body in those moments but, “Baby, how did that feel? How’s that going? What would you like a little more of today or less? Speak to me.”

Thank you for bringing in that balance because I’ve had that before. I’ve had guys constantly, like in every other minute, asking me, “Is this okay?” Even at a certain point, I wanted men to stop asking me, like, “Just do it to me.”

This is the hardest thing in the world. We’re being asked to be the most attuned, sensitive and amazing guy. At the same time, “I’ll take you to god. I’m a primal animal. I’m going to ravish you to the point where you surrender to my penetrating awesome.” It’s hard to hit these notes. These feminine creatures are very refined in what they’re looking for and what they blossom with. If you went to a martial artist, a dojo, even if you had Bruce Lee as your trainer, it would take years to become a Black Belt. You don’t just get a teaching and then become a black belt. This is a path. It’s a journey.

Luckily, this journey is very enjoyable. You don’t get hit by the black belts. You get kissed and loved by them. The times where it’s challenging is when you get the feedback you don’t want to get. That’s where you have to become a little more lawyer-like, breathe and be willing to be that vulnerable man. Men, we have it in us. Every man I know desires to please his woman more than anything and if he doesn’t, that’s because he’s had so much pain around that that he’s buried it. Every man I know in the essence of his heart, he wants to be a good lover and be the one who pleases his woman big time. When he gets feedback in any other way than that, if we feel like we hurt her or she’s shutting down or shaming us or contracting because what we’re offering from our being, we’re doing our best.

If we feel that, something in us crumbles. It is a powerful force in the male psyche. It’s like getting punched in the gut and you crumble down. We have to be able to and be willing to feel that little crumble that makes us want to recluse or shut down or go into whatever defense mechanism to try to avoid that feeling. Just breathe through it, stay present, and stay in the course. “That didn’t feel good.” The rewards and results of showing up to that challenging, painful and vulnerable moment and persevering is that we start to get that positive feedback loop going. Her openness and your penetration, your attunement and her receptivity, her pleasure and your pleasure start to dance and unfold in these ways that are truly magical and incredibly worth staying the course and becoming a black belt in this area of our own existence.

I know at least one person is harboring this question. I hear it all the time for men, “All of these attunement exercises, empathy, connection, and eye contact. All of that is great and what it does is it makes her fall in love with me. What if I want a good fuck and not have to deal with a messy woman at the end of it?”

This is Black Belt stuff. I’ve been through a journey where I came out of a long-term monogamous connection and I was ready to not go toward a relationship or becoming a partner or a husband. I was adamant about that and I had to do everything I could in my being because I still wanted to make love and I want to be on this journey of becoming a masterful man. I wanted to be very sensual and have experiences. The first thing is to have lots of skillful communication around this.

I tell them and they don’t believe me. They still get all emotionally out of whack. Even if I tell them that I don’t want a relationship, they always want a relationship.

The other price you pay to be a man who doesn’t want a relationship or wants lovers is you have to be willing to trust that there is an abundance of women who will be your lover. They might even start to want a relationship, but they can, in their essence, handle, tolerate, and be on board for being your lover and not being your partner. That doesn’t mean you get to make love with every woman. If you’re going to do this and be in integrity, you are going to be responsive and a good listener at these deeper levels, so you can get more masterful at conveying. You have to become a man who can make love to a woman and not hook her on those levels.

Suppressed Anger: You have to become a man who can make love to a woman and not hook her on those levels.

A lot of times, the man himself is hooking a woman toward that relationship trigger getting set-off in her and he’s not even aware he’s doing that. A man can start to communicate, refine and recalibrate his own system such that he’s conveying a different energy where women are more likely to want to be lovers with him and less inclined to get hooked. If they do get somewhat hooked, they still have the capacity to orient themselves around who and what he is. She can make conscious choices and have that all be drama-free, healthy and beautiful. It is an advanced thing and if there are guys out there who are wanting to take this journey and be that man, call me because this is an advanced part of the process.

The first thing is to know that it’s possible that it has a lot to do with your communication and not only your verbal communication but your transmission. This comes from your gut. It literally comes from your guts. It’s like, “I’m this man. I’m still in integrity. I’m still very present. I’m still one of the best lovers you’ll ever have and the most present lovers. Yet, the being you’re making love to is not that guy.” Once that ability is online, the other ability you have to cultivate is that your integrity is so deep. You don’t go around trying to make love with every woman for making love’s sake. You’re still listening for true alignment. You get it from your inner sense of guidance, it’s like a Jedi skill or that you start to feel, “This woman is so hot. I’d love to make love with her, but if I do, we’re going toward a lot of drama and pain. I’m going to ultimately hurt her heart.” You have to have the capacity to bow even in the face of this incredible desire that you have to make love with her.

This is where it gets into the high art. It’s a truly tantric way of living where you’re not driven by just animal desires and desire for sex or pleasure. Your guidance system is online with a deeper impulse and knowing that is that is dictated by a very deep place of wisdom and being. What I would tell a guy in that way is to learn to communicate. You have to start with that. Just say, “I want to be present with you. I want to be able to even love you, but I have to please get this through and through. I’m not available for a relationship, so if we’re going to go there, it has to be these ways. I’ll care for your heart. I’ll be a kind and amazing man, but I’m also going to be with other women. I need you to be oriented so you know that that’s the case. Are you open to that? Are you available for that? Can you truly be with me in that case? If so, great. Let’s dance together. If not, let’s bow and be friends. Let’s stay with the ocean of care that we already are in.”

I would love to see you write that up as a script and make this available. Not that I’m into scripts, but for men to know how to language this sentiment.

We need those.

As a woman, we also need to hear that. What we get is charming Mr. Romance that would sleep with us and afterward, “I want to let you know I’m not into relationships.”

It’s an epidemic.

I’m mopping up the mess of this with the hundreds of men that I’ve served. If you’re a man reading this, you have to muster the courage to have this conversation that Tobin is suggesting. I love the words that he used, it was so eloquent.

That’s what it takes, it’s being courageous. A lot more women than you would ever believe would want to be lovers. I was astounded. Once I made these internal shifts, I was able to not only speak these words but convey the energies of a trustworthy man who was truly not available for a relationship right now and had the balls to speak that and let you know. Let things come and let things go as they were meant to. There’s a big cosmic orchestration that we can start to play a part in and be a part of that is actually for our highest good and for the highest good of the people we get to make love with and dance within these ways. That’s an art form, but the first and foremost thing you have to do is have the scary conversations. Men, just do it. Don’t be that guy, it’s not okay anymore.

We are hurting these women’s hearts. There are these charming, sexy guys and you see this a lot in the spiritual world at festivals and things like that. You get a lot of this going on, but it’s probably going on a lot in mainstream culture too. They’re charming and amazing guys who just think, “I can have sex with them without having a conversation. They should know that.” It’s this mentality that it’s her responsibility to have those conversations if she wants a relationship. No, just do it. Take that minute or two, be willing to bite the bullet and to have that conversation and say, “This is where I’m at. Where are you at? This is what I’m available for. What are you available for?” Ground that communication out. Part of doing this artfully is being very thorough and saying things you would never otherwise say, things you think are not even okay to say. Say those things.

You have to keep going with your heart and body’s truth, your truth, and the truth of who and what you are right now. You have to say that whole thing, mean it, and then see where the conversation goes. It does take a high level of maturity to do this, but that’s what we need to. We need to start playing at this level. If we’re going to have the quality of lovemaking, relationships, life, and the planet that we want, we’ve got to start playing at these higher levels of maturity, courage, depth, integrity, potency, and all of that wrapped into one in a way that is so paradoxical. You don’t see many models of it in our culture from the men, but it is very possible.

Suppressed Anger: You have to keep going with your heart and body’s truth, your truth, and the truth of who and what you are right now.

I can say it’s very possible. I’ve been living this life. You wouldn’t even believe my life. If I told people what I’ve experienced, it blows people’s minds. “That’s not possible on the planet.” You’d be amazed it actually is. In terms of any given lovemaking experience and not to mention the whole life, adventures, beauty, and feedback. I compile these letters. I was asked by a guy who I’m collaborating with to put them all in one place and I reread them. I’m like, “This is me they’re talking about. This is insane in a good way.”

From a woman with a fair amount of experience, this is what I want to address. It’s like, “What is not being talked about? What can I not get from a book or a porn video or like on YouTube?” What’s not being talked about is how important it is for women to experience their sexuality within a context. I’m going to be specific about what I mean by the context in this case. What’s not talked about is everything that happens before lovemaking and after lovemaking. I want you to know I’m carrying this complaint or request from hundreds and hundreds of women that I’ve counseled for over twenty years.

You have to stoke her fire. Before you even are in the realm or in the neighborhood of having an intimate experience with a woman, whether it’s your long-term life and the mother of your children or a one-night stand or a new date, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter, what we want and need is for you to stoke our erotic fire long before any intimacy enters as a possibility. Just as you would build a fire, there are elements that we need in order to experience the fullness of our turn on. To build a fire, you need wood, ignition, and oxygen.

Also, little tiny pieces of wood at the beginning, like tiny kindling, to build the fire.

You can see a woman’s body and a woman’s sexuality in a similar way. We need to be stoked and warmed. I know David Deida talks about this, but a date begins the moment you ask for it. What do you do to curate her between the moment she says yes to the date and the time you meet? Are you stoking her? Are you giving her attention? Are you praising her? Are you connecting with her? Are you listening to her heart? If you’re in a partnership, are you showering her with romance and attention? Are you running a bath for her? Are you doing dishes? These are the most erotic things a man can do in my book. If you want to get to my heart, it’s through doing the dishes.

Afterward, understand that a woman’s memory and experience of sex is going to be so different than yours. This is because of the way that we store memory in our bodies and in our nervous system. We will walk away from a sexual experience, not necessarily remembering or even giving attention to the size of your penis, the technique of your stroke, how good or bad you were, how long you lasted, all of that stuff matters so little to us, much less than you think it does.

We lay sexual memory into what’s called implicit memory. It goes into the backdrop or the background. What is in our explicit memory bank? What we give full focus and attention to is how you have cared for our hearts. If you care for our heart leading up to an encounter and you care for our heart after an encounter, if after the sexual experience you follow-up, you text her the next day, you call her the next day, you talk to her. You give her your unfailing attention. Even if you don’t want a relationship, you’re still present and you’re there. You inquire about her feelings and her experience. You care for her and give her attention. Her experience of lovemaking with you gets enveloped with oxytocin. It gets wrapped in how deeply you care for her heart. She will absolutely say that you’re her best lover ever. It doesn’t even matter what happened in the bedroom.

I love what you’re saying. It’s exactly why maybe I’m getting all these amazing letters and Yelp reviews. It’s with all the deepest humility and reverence to it all. It’s just the biggest blessing on the planet. In order to be that man who is experiencing that level of blessedness, you need to do exactly what Eva was saying. It’s caring for her heart before, during, and after. That’s the foundation, “I am here in my being as a very alive, present, and whole man showing up with this steady stream of care and love for your heart and your essence as a woman, as the actual person you are not as just anyone.” It’s not a technique. This is your heart to her being, “I am here for and with you before, during, and after.”

It’s a steady stream. Your heart is on. You’ve turned on your heart and soul in a way that there’s an ever-flowing quality of presence that shows up as texts. It shows up as how you talk to her, in the way you love her or the way you hold her. It even shows up in the way you tell her you’re not available for partnership if that happens to be your truth. That pervades and conveys something to that woman’s being where she melts, opens up, and responds. She finally feels like, “I know who I’m being with here. I know what I’m getting.” Everything shifts in that moment. That whole thing opens up.

They’re wise, wonderful creatures. Women can then make their own healthy, wonderful decisions in response to you because you’re giving them that to relate to. To make love with, if that’s appropriate and accurate for the two of you. If that’s the dance you’re meant to experience. That brings out the best in the dance and in the women you’re dancing with. It becomes surprisingly miraculous. A lot of men come to me, “Women are crazy. They keep doing this. Women are crazy.” It’s like, “Yes, they’ve got their stuff to work on in general, too.” If you start to convey, show up in, and do this simple thing that Eva was inviting us to as men, then you get the sanest, healthy, and grounded dances and responses. It becomes a different world that you live. It’s quite miraculous.

I want to be very succinct and I want to make one last request of men in what I find to be a core piece of being a masterful lover. That is to learn about women’s sexual physiology. Pick up a book by Sheri Winston or there are many good things that you can buy out there that talk about how a woman’s anatomy works and how her nervous system responds to her genitals. The reason why I make the suggestion to men is that we’re different than you. We work in a totally different way than you. Many women talk about having pain during sex or not having an orgasm during sex or not feeling turned on or not having enough libido.

These are the most common things that I hear and when we get to the core of what was going on, it’s that her partner or partners, if she’s single and having lots of lovers, men are entering women before they’re ready. It takes twenty to 40 minutes of foreplay, direct genital stimulation, in order for a woman to be engorged in erectile tissue and to be ready to be penetrated by something. Whether it’s a finger or an object or a penis, penetration is a big deal. If something goes into our body, our body has to be ready to receive it for many reasons. Slow down and make sure that she’s begging for you to penetrate her before you do.

Suppressed Anger: Find where the full yes is and enjoy it.

For all you men out there who are like, “They want it quicker. I don’t want to wait that long and that’s too much of a chore.” Do your absolute best to take this advice as if your life and the world’s thriving depends on it. Enjoy the ride. You can know so much fun, goodness, joy, and bliss. In pre-penetration a lot of times, you can never even get to penetration and it can be some of the best lovemaking ever. The invitation is to explore and dance in ways you never have. I have found that out also what I was conditioned, especially watching videos, what you think, and what your program to want that it’s instant. “Let’s go. Boom.”

We’re completely different in general. I’m sure there are some women who would you say, “I’m ready to go.” There are some women, but in general, we want to be mindful. That’s part of this presence thing. Once you get that responsive, you start to feel from within your own fingers at the levels of less than a tenth of an inch what her yoni is wanting. If that yoni is inviting you in a tenth of an inch, you can feel that. If now, you go back 1.5. Find where the full yes is and enjoy it. Play there and get it yummy and juicy within wherever the full yes is for you and for the person with a 100% full yes. Let’s have fun there. Pretty soon, it starts to open to a different full yes, a deeper full yes. You want to learn to play in what I call the Full Yes Zone. That to me is where the magic is. What unfolds is a golden thread where everybody feels so fulfilled and grateful during and after that lovemaking experience. That’s where you become that lover where she’s like, “Thank you.”

On that note, I’m a full yes. It’s so good to talk about this and share this information. I want to share with everyone where to find Tobin. He’s at TobinZivon.com. He’s an amazing coach, guide and teacher. By all means, reach out to me if you have more questions or you want to go deeper into this conversation. I’m in EvaClay.com. Tobin, thank you so much for dropping these wisdom nuggets.

I feel like you are this loving invitation to more mastery. I look at this as an ever-unfolding journey. It’s on this planet, I happen to be ahead of those guys when it comes to this art and this way of being. Compared to what our potential is and what’s possible, I’m always the student and ever-learning, a humble dancer of love in this lifetime. I learn so much every time I connect with you. It puts me in the state of that actual way of being that helps me show up in a way I aspire to show up in my life and with the women in my life. Thank you so much and I can’t recommend Eva highly enough to all the people out there reading. For guys, if you want one-on-one mentoring, that’s what I’m here for. It’s 100% along these lines.

Tobin, until next time.

Thank you so much, Eva and Tobin, for such an amazing, enlightening conversation. I am deeply grateful for your time and energy to produce the show for the people. For more shows, please visit RobertKandell.com. Please give us some stars on iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast app. Thank you. We’ll see you soon.

About Eva Clay

Eva Clay, MSW, LCSW is an acclaimed sexologist, somatic psychotherapist and professional troublemaker whose mission for two decades has been to illuminate the ménage-a-trois of soul, sex and science. She’s helped thousands of people turn sex into a hot and holy practice. As a former professor of neuroscience, she bodaciously reminds us that smart is sexy. She offers sacred sexuality courses and coaching to women, men, and couples, and her work has been described as “an elegant marriage of the profound and the playful”. Eva’s work has been featured on media such as CBS, YogaWorks, Wanderlust, and many others. When she’s not teaching, you’ll find her making mayhem on a dance floor. See www.EvaClay.com

About Tobin Zivon

Tobin Zivon has been described as “The ultimate Guide… A rare, exquisite blend of spiritual teacher, therapist and Tantra master all wrapped into one.” His teachings are designed to not only help you access and experience your true essential/awakened nature in deeper and more fulfilling ways, but also to illuminate the nuances of what it means to actually LIVE and LOVE from this divinely infused center of your Being. He has been wholeheartedly dedicated to the path of embodied awakening for over 30 years. Tobin’s background includes five years working intimately with Adyashanti, 12 years in the Ridhwan School (under the direction of AH Almaas), 6 years in a Zen Center, a three- year apprenticeship with one of the foremost transpersonal psychotherapists in America, and training with the South African Tantra teacher Shakti Malan. He authored The Art of Mindful Living: “You Can’t Stop the Waves, But You Can Learn to Surf,” and has been teaching groups, couples, and individuals for 20 years. See www.tobinzivon.com