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Originally posted by John Frank: Mak - tell us a little about "Romantic Impressions" - Thanks.[/b]

Sure. There are four volumes in the series, all with original compostitions by Martha Mier. I have books 1 and 2. I've finished going thru book 1, and started book 2. The pieces are not exceptionally difficult, but very pretty, if you like the Romantic style (think Debussy or Schumann, perhaps).

I'm really enjoying these books as a supplement to the Alfred's Adult book. [/b]

Mak - thanks for the info and the videos - sounds like something I'd enjoy playing, although I'm already working out of 3 books regularly so I don't know when I'd be able to fit them in

I just got the first book (there are 7) of the "Essential keyboard Repertoire" series in the mail and after scanning thru it for awhile the original pieces appear to be at a level where the book could easily be used as a supplement to Alfred 2, in addition to Alfred 3 - the series is published by Alfred - so probably the level 3 book in the series might be a good place to start if you're looking for something to work from (in addition to other material) after Alfred 3.

I think I'm going to contact Alfred to see if I can get their recommendations on an organized program of study after Alfred 3, which is especially important for those of us self-teaching (if you have a teacher, he/she may have their own ideas but you still may be interested in any recommendations from the publisher).

Regards, JF

_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Originally posted by DaveInMichigan: John, thanks for sharing your music. It is so wonderful to listen to other members playing. I will do that when I get my DP or keyboard.

Quote:

I think I'm going to contact Alfred to see if I can get their recommendations on an organized program of study after Alfred 3....

If you do that and get their reply, please let us know. I am interesting in joining if there is a thread for self-type after level 3. Thanks! [/b]

Dave - thanks for the thanks - and yes, I will let you (and others here who may be interested) know what I find out from Alfred - also, while I wasn't thinking about a separate thread dedicated to sharing experiences in a program of study beyond Alfred 3 as you suggest, it does have the potential to be a very good idea (even if those participating are using different source materials) - a sort of "Beyond Alfred" thread

_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Book 3ers - as promised, below is a copy of an email I recieved from Alfred Publishing Co. in response to an email I sent to their Customer Support section in which I requested recommendations on organised programs of study that basically pick up where Alfred 3 leaves off.

As you will see the recommendations are mostly multi-volume series that are geared toward Classical music studies and technical exercises. According to the gentleman who took the time and made the effort to forward these recommendations there are currently no programs of study that encompass multiple genres of music such as is found throughout the Basic Alfred Adult series. You can, of course, use any number of supplemental books to augment the material shown below.

This gentleman, whose particulars are listed at the end, is not [/b] making these recommendations as an official representative of Alfred Publishing Co., but merely as a private individual who has been teaching piano and helping people with their piano studies for some time now.

Notice his contention that those who finish Alfred 3 are at the "Late-Intermediate" Level.

Here is the email (all of the books listed are available at alfred.com & other sites):

Thanks for your email and your questions. I would like to give you some recommendations as to what your options are.

Standard Classical Repertoire: [/b] ------------------------------

Students who complete Level 3 of Alfred’s Basic Adult Piano Course tend to be at the Late-Intermediate level. However, because students vary in ability as well as practice habits and exposure to supplemental literature, we usually recommend that you choose intermediate level standard repertoire. This will allow students to develop an in-depth understanding of the nuances and artistry required to perform pieces from various style periods.

The following Alfred graded repertoire collections are excellent for a Level 3 graduate who is ready to master the classics.

The Spirit Series [/b] -----------------

Ed. Nancy Bachus / perf. Daniel Glover

Eastman graduate and master teacher Nancy Bachus designed The Spirit Series for pianists to capture the spirit of the major style periods. Repertoire from both familiar and lesser-known composers is included, along with commentary about the composers' lives, related art images and social changes in the era. Each book includes an artistic CD recording of the repertoire by noted pianist, Daniel Glover.

This 96-page resource is an essential collection of progressive exercises and etudes.

(Early Advanced).........................$12.95 item #22448

Masterwork Classics [/b] ---------------------

Ed. Jane Magrath / perf. Kim O'Reilly

Chair of the Piano Pedagogy Department at the University of Oklahoma, Dr. Jane Magrath has graded this series sequentially for aspiring pianists. Alfred began publishing Masterwork Classics in 1988, and the series continues to be Alfred’s top-selling repertoire series. Each book contains an excellent model performance CD by Kim O’Reilly.

With my own students, I try to evaluate their interests and goals when figuring out where to go next. The Classics are a great school master, and there are contemporary music educators with excellent materials as well. Or, you may want to branch off into pop or jazz styles.

I could give you more exact recommendations based on your personal musical tastes and what you would like to ultimately achieve in your studies. You are welcome to write back and I’ll be happy to give you more help.

Wow, what a nice reply from the gentleman, and thanks for posting it here, John.

I had been doing a lot of searching too. The technical studies turn out to be about the same as suggested. I am already doing Hanon. I will most likely add an etude book for the Etudes, and select one from the Repertoire book.

By the way, I think any Book3er can do Hanon now. It is just finger exercise and without much reading, so I think the sooner the better. Even if you do it slowly, after 1 month or two, you will notice an amazing improvement. All you need is persistence. Just it at your most comfortable and accurate speed a few times daily.

I have the first volume and have looked through the others. My teacher has commented that he uses the first few books in the series, but also commented that after about book 3 or 4 the series loses direction and they were just publishing more books to have more books to sell.

I would say that volume 1 is about comparable to Keith Snell level 1 & 2. I think they have some of the same pieces. I would have to look at it in more detail to see if it also contains pieces from Keith Snell level 3.

I have the first volume and have looked through the others. My teacher has commented that he uses the first few books in the series, but also commented that after about book 3 or 4 the series loses direction and they were just publishing more books to have more books to sell.

I would say that volume 1 is about comparable to Keith Snell level 1 & 2. I think they have some of the same pieces. I would have to look at it in more detail to see if it also contains pieces from Keith Snell level 3.

Rich [/b]

Rich - Yes, that's the "Essential Keyboard Repertoire" book I have - Vol.1 - it appears to be a very nicely formatted and useful compilationwith a number of interesting pieces that could easily be used by late-beginners onward.

In a followup email about this series the Alfred guy above stated that it's a decent series but that it won't take you as far into an advanced repertoire as the other two series that he recommended.

Your teacher could very well be correct in the contention that it tends to lose direction in later volumes, one of which is devoted to Sonatinas and another one to works requiring an octave or less in reach (which may not necessarily be a bad thing).

It seems to me we discussed the EKR series in comparison to the Keith Snell series not too long ago in another thread and I'm trying to remember what your reason(s) were for rating the Snell series just a little better in overall quality - maybe you can remind me (was it this lack of direction?).

Dave - thanks for your comments.

regards, JF

_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

I like the Keith Snell series better because it is more consistent in terms of the difficulty of pieces in each level. There are so many other series out there that gives you a clear indication of the progression. Alfred's EKR strikes me as requiring a teacher to help with the ordering of pieces and when to move on to another level. I think the editing is better in alfed's series. You usually get more help with ornamentation in alfred's as well. As far as the pieces go, anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of the same pieces seem to be the same in the two series. A plus for Keith Snell is that I think it has more 20th century composers.

JF, thanks for the information for studies beyond Alfred 3. It was nice of the gentleman to refer to us as "late-intermediate", but, personally, I doubt it. Whenever I hear my teacher play I realize I am just scratching the surface. But that's OK.

While I was away I finished up "Soldier's Joy" and "Toreador Song". Mak, don't you love that F9/C chord in the third to last measure. I must confess, in order to get the succession of triplets and the last seven measures, I played it while listening to my teacher's version at about 85% speed. It got so I didn't have to think about what was happening as magically the fingers just did what they were supposed to do. Listening is such a powerful tool.

It's now on to "Rock-a My Soul", on which I am making good progress. But I must have played the 7th measure a thousand times to get it right. Mak, I have cheated here as well, as my teacher's recording makes the "swing feel" very easy to follow. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten it had I not heard him play it. I've also started "Prelude in Eb Major" which is giving me fits as I'm trying to establish a methodology for counting the last line. I find it very hard to switch from "one-and-two-and" to "one-two-three-four-five-six". Fortunately, the next piece, "Variations on a Sea Chanty" is fairly straightforward.

I know my cheating ways would not be acceptable at the Conservatory, but I'm running out of time, so for me, it's anything that works.

There are 11 levels (preparatory through 10). Three books in each level for classical music - one for etudes, one for baroque & classical period, and one for romantic & 20th century, plus you can find some jazz, duet, new age, etc books that are correlated to the same levels. (The index for some of the later books are listed on the back of the series, not on the website. I also don't think they have books for these at every level.) You can also buy CD's for each level.

Level wise: several of the pieces in the challenge section are in Level 5 of the Keith Snell series. If you want more preparation to be ready for the challenge section, I would suggest working through level 4 of Keith Snell's series and then the challenge section / level 5 at the same time.

Keith Snell also has a one volume per level series Essential Piano Repertoire of the 17th, 18th, & 19th Centuries. This comes with CD. It does not have as much of the 20th century music, but might be a good approach for some.

Originally posted by DragonPianoPlayer:There are 11 levels (preparatory through 10). Three books in each level for classical music - one for etudes, one for baroque & classical period, and one for romantic & 20th century,

You can also buy CD's for each level.

Keith Snell also has a one volume per level series Essential Piano Repertoire of the 17th, 18th, & 19th Centuries. This comes with CD. It does not have as much of the 20th century music, but might be a good approach for some.

Rich [/b]

Rich - after reading your description above and visiting the website you linked to it looks like the "Piano Repertoire" series edited by Keith Snell has 11 levels, and each level consists of 3 books (1. Classical/Baroque, 2. Romantic/Modern & 3. Etudes) for a total of 33 books if one worked thru the entire series - is this correct? This sounds like a pretty through piano education (if perhaps somewhat expensive :p ).

So, just to briefly summarize, here are the recommended organized, multi-volume, multi-level, intermediate to advanced series that can be used both concurrently with and long beyond the Basic Alfred Adult series:

From Alfred:------------

1. Essential Keyboard Repertoire - 7 volumes

2. The Spirit Series - 8 volumes

3. Masterwork Classics - 10 volumes

From Kjos Publish.:-------------------

4. Piano Repertoire - 33 Volumes at 11 levels (Keith Snell edited)

5. Essential Piano Repertoire - ? volumes (1/level) - edited by K.S.

**********************************************

Any other series that anyone would care to mention?

**********************************************

OldFingers [/b] - welcome back! Good to hear from you again. Thanks for the update on your efforts to master those tough Book 3 pieces. I'm with you on doing whatever it takes to get the job done

Regards, JF

_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Originally posted by DragonPianoPlayer:Level wise: several of the pieces in the challenge section are in Level 5 of the Keith Snell series. If you want more preparation to be ready for the challenge section, I would suggest working through level 4 of Keith Snell's series and then the challenge section / level 5 at the same time.[/b]

These look interesting thanks! I'd love to try some of the Baroque/Classical but I'm only on the end of Alfreds book 1. Have you any idea where the Snell books preparatory level would fit in with Alfreds?

Celebration Series Perspectives (11 levels) used for RCM examinations. Frederick Harris Music Company.

The Developing Artist Series (5 levels literature & 4 levels of Sonatinas + Piano Literature for a Dark and Stormy Night who can resist that title.)

Succeeding with the Masters (3 levels, 7 books - On your way to succeeding with the masters, followed by a Baroque vol 1 & 2, Classical vol 1 & 2, and Romantic vol 1 & 2) Note that these books only contain the big composers, all are about intermediate level. They do have a page or so of practice suggestions with each piece.

Originally posted by DragonPianoPlayer:Level wise: several of the pieces in the challenge section are in Level 5 of the Keith Snell series. If you want more preparation to be ready for the challenge section, I would suggest working through level 4 of Keith Snell's series and then the challenge section / level 5 at the same time.[/b]

These look interesting thanks! I'd love to try some of the Baroque/Classical but I'm only on the end of Alfreds book 1. Have you any idea where the Snell books preparatory level would fit in with Alfreds? [/b]

The Preparatory pieces look more like the ones in the first half or so of Alfred's 1. Maybe try level 1?

Originally posted by DragonPianoPlayer:The Developing Artist Series (5 levels literature & 4 levels of Sonatinas + Piano Literature for a Dark and Stormy Night who can resist that title.)

Rich [/b]

:D On a dark and stormy night you might have to read that piano literature with a flashlight - and I would certainly not want to turn on my digital piano to play anything (probably pull the plug instead!).

Rich - Thanks for the additional listing of graded series - they could be worthwhile - but, can one have too many choices? It gets confusing after awhile (not to mention costly)

Regards, JF

P.S. I might post our summarized listing as a new topic for anyone interested (Alfred user or not) in the ABF.

_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Listening isn't cheating- it's one more learning tool. I used a variation on what you did. I don't have a portable recorder to tape my teacher's playing, but I do have notation software on my laptop. So I just plugged in the tricky parts and listened to them, over and over. Then took the laptop in to the piano, and played along with it, ever so slowly at first till I got it. It is definitely so much easier if I know how it's supposed to sound.

An my assignment for this week with Rock-A My Soul is to do exactly what you did- get that left hand part in muscle memory, so that I don't have to think about it, and just do it. I'm tripping up on it every time, because it's not automatic enough.

I have not gotten into the Prelude yet, but counting has never been too much of an issue for me. I think it's because I sang for so long, that switiching counting modes is not all that confusing. Of course, the real trick is to do that, hit all the right notes on the right beats, and make it all sound like music, too!

_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer uprightKawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

Mak, thank you for sharing your practice style. It is very effective indeed. FYI I use a Zoom H2 for recording, Audacity for cutting and normalizing, and "The Amazing Slow Downer" for time-scaling.

I would like to ask a favour. When you get to the Prelude and the two measures that shift time to 1/6 notes, would you let me know how you deal with it. Perhaps, because of your previous experience, it will be straightforward for you, but if you have to think about it, I'd appreciate knowing what you are thinking.

I don't mean to throw a wet blanket but I submit this for consideration. Yes the gentleman was very kind to send that information to you. This is in all likelihood not an issue but I feel compelled to ask if you asked for and received permission from the gentleman to post his letter and name on these public forums? If not, I think it would be totally appropriate to ask for permission or at the very least edit out his name and other personal and professional information from the post.

I agree, very good information by the way.

_________________________
Casio PX-320, Fabers' Adult Piano Adventures 1"If you drive faster than I do, you are a maniac. If you drive slower than I do, you are are an idiot."

Originally posted by PhysicsTeacher: This is in all likelihood not an issue but I feel compelled to ask if you asked for and received permission from the gentleman to post his letter and name on these public forums?

I agree, very good information by the way. [/b]

PhysicsTeacher - good point, but rest assured that permission was asked and granted - his only stipulation was that I emphasize that he was NOT offering his recommendations as an OFFICIAL representative of Alfred Publishing Co., Inc., which I did specify near the beginning of that post that contained the copy of his email.

Glad you found it to be very good info.

Regards, JF

_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Originally posted by OldFingers: I would like to ask a favour. When you get to the Prelude and the two measures that shift time to 1/6 notes, would you let me know how you deal with it. Perhaps, because of your previous experience, it will be straightforward for you, but if you have to think about it, I'd appreciate knowing what you are thinking.

Bob [/b]

Bob-

Do you mean the 2 measures of triplets in the last system? I just got the book and looked at the piece. I have not tried playing it yet, but as the time signature really does not change there, it's just two triplets in 2/4, rather than straight eighths or quarters. I think, just looking at the music, that if I have difficulty in that section, I would set the metronome to a slow 2/4, and then work at getting the triplets (counting "trip-a-let for each of the 2 beats) into the beats. And ramp up the speed as the muscle memory develops. But that's just from a look at the music and not playing it. When we get to that one, my teacher may have a suggestion for working thru those measures, as well.

_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer uprightKawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

Originally posted by IrishMak:Do you mean the 2 measures of triplets in the last system? I just got the book and looked at the piece. I have not tried playing it yet, but as the time signature really does not change there, it's just two triplets in 2/4, rather than straight eighths or quarters. I think, just looking at the music, that if I have difficulty in that section, I would set the metronome to a slow 2/4, and then work at getting the triplets (counting "trip-a-let for each of the 2 beats) into the beats. And ramp up the speed as the muscle memory develops. But that's just from a look at the music and not playing it. When we get to that one, my teacher may have a suggestion for working thru those measures, as well. [/b]

Mak, you have it exactly right. Using the metronome and counting "one-and-two-and, trip-a-let trip-a-let, trip-a-let trip-a-let, one-and-two-and" it works. If I then do it playing one note or chord in the RH or LH, that works too. But then when I try to alternate so that "trip-a-let, trip-a-let" = "RH-LH-RH LH-RH-LH" I get messed up. I need to really concentrate on where the beat falls. I'm probably thinking about this too much.

BTW, I think it's terrific that you can hear the music from a singer's point of view. I'd love to be able to sing along with some of the pieces we are playing but my voice has a range of about five notes.

Yes, definitely, in a case like those triplets in the Prelude, it is a matter of coordination between the hands. Once you have the notes figured out, it can be just as difficult to get the hands to work together in the right sequence. But, like so much else in learning a new piece, the key (I believe) is slow, steady practice.

As for the singing, I hear pretty much everything I play "sung" in my head. Most of the time, I'm singing the count, but it's still sung. I don't know if it helps or hurts, but it's hard to turn it off!

_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer uprightKawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

Originally posted by IrishMak:As for the singing, I hear pretty much everything I play "sung" in my head. Most of the time, I'm singing the count, but it's still sung. I don't know if it helps or hurts, but it's hard to turn it off! [/b]

Mak, I'm not a musician, but I know enough to know that the ability to hear the music in your head before you play it, is a gift. Have you ever thought about playing jazz piano?

Thank you for reminding me to slow down. It seems that I need to be reminded of that lesson almost weekly.