I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

The issue is, and since there is really no other way to quantify it we have to use stars, well over half the sec recruits better than do the Hogs. This year, 27th in the nation was either 9th or 10th in the sec. When your opponents CONSISTENTLY get better players, they are going to beat you more often than not.

Top 25 doesn't mean a whole lot when you're 8-11th in your conference most years.

Most of it (recruiting publications etc...) only serve as psychological cocaine for those who can't shut it off during the off season (you and me)... The other side of the coin is political. I can't prove it, but I'm certainly convinced that the money involved in the publication of this crap, and the writers personal college allegiances, cause the providers of said slop to cater to the needs of coaches and artificially inflate already subjective ratings that are purely conjecture other than measurables. I also think recruiting rankings are used by coaches to help influence a kid on where to go, and thusly creates a relationship between publishers and coaches. These relationships then lead to more murking of the waters in an already subjective art that is pawned off as science. It's all bull darn; Stars, rankings and everything else. The recruiting rankings are just like the top 25 polls. You see an educated guess on next years performance based off of recent history and psychic trickeration. Every year someone over-performs and someone else under performs. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this, if CCM earns enough respect points by winning, the building of our program will be rapid. HDN I believe was a victim of his own goofiness. CCM may very well be the Anti Nutt.

Warning: Do not even try to convince me of the recruiting rankings B.S. I am the original "Stars don't matter guy", and have never lost this argument.

Most of it (recruiting publications etc...) only serve as psychological cocaine for those who can't shut it off during the off season (you and me)... The other side of the coin is political. I can't prove it, but I'm certainly convinced that the money involved in the publication of this crap, and the writers personal college allegiances, cause the providers of said slop to cater to the needs of coaches and artificially inflate already subjective ratings that are purely conjecture other than measurables. I also think recruiting rankings are used by coaches to help influence a kid on where to go, and thusly creates a relationship between publishers and coaches. These relationships then lead to more murking of the waters in an already subjective art that is pawned off as science. It's all bull darn; Stars, rankings and everything else. The recruiting rankings are just like the top 25 polls. You see an educated guess on next years performance based off of recent history and psychic trickeration. Every year someone over-performs and someone else under performs. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this, if CCM earns enough respect points by winning, the building of our program will be rapid. HDN I believe was a victim of his own goofiness. CCM may very well be the Anti Nutt.

Warning: Do not even try to convince me of the recruiting rankings B.S. I am the original "Stars don't matter guy", and have never lost this argument.

Yea cause the teams playing for titles in the p5 leagues or in the college fb playoffs are usually teams that do not rank highly in recruiting.

I think we have more 4 star players than 2 star. We have good talent, but just not talent on the level of top SEC teams. Our classes under Bielema probably averaged higher than Wisconsin's, but Wisconsin plays in the Big Ten and has remained a top-10 team since Bielema left them.

CM will improve our W/L record for no other reason than BB was an inept dinasaur. However, even CM knows he has to measurably improve the talent here to truly complete at a hight level in the SEC with any consistently.

Talent is the life blood of any program. Coaching is critical too, of course, but talent is priority #1. Talent is king.

Of those 3 are TE'S, 3 or 4 are OL. 1 will be a rs jr QB that has taken a handful of snaps the last 2 years.

The poster remains correct, it is a roster made up of 2 and 3 star players.

You're going to an extreme to make your point here. We are a program made up of 3 stars, with a few 4 and 2 stars sprinkled in...probably more 4's than 2's.

Now, if most of our 3 stars were Trey Flower's level players, then sure, we'd be competing for SECC's...as you already understand. But they aren't, just like every other program full of 3 stars like ours aren't either. And most of those don't have an SEC schedule. You know well that math and statistics get in the way of the "3 star programs can be coached up to champhionship level" mantra. Sure, maybe once every 5 years or so, but not with any consistency. As you know.

Out of 129 FBS teams, what percentage of them have predominantly 4* and 5* rosters? Maybe 10%, which is 13 teams? Are we really a top 13 program right now?

So what's your suggestion to start landing these 4* and 5* recruits?

Win more, right? But you're one of these guys who seems so hell-bent that teams who aren't top of the recruiting rankings can't win more. So what do we do?

You can definitely compete, and win, with lower ranked players (meaning fewer 4 and 5 *s), properly coached, but the question is where can you compete. I'm not convinced you can do that in the SEC west where the talent differential is so overwhelming. When you are getting beat by 20-30 points by three or four teams every year at some point despair sets in and the team underperforms in games where they should be competitive. Players need to play with attitude and confidence and believe they can beat anyone, without that edge Alabama linebackers will just destroy you and it becomes a vicious circle.

What most fans do, or should do, enjoy the games for the sake of the games. I enjoy each game right up to the point where they lose. I do not sit around worrying about what people will think of me based on whether the Hogs win or lose. I see people here posts all the time though about how they dread going to work on Monday after the Hogs lose because of what they will have to hear from a co worker who is a fan of another team. Or how it ruined their whole weekend when the Hogs lost.

As far as what the coaches can do, just keep offering better players, keep trying to sell them on what they can do here, and try to get as many better players as they can.

What most fans do, or should do, enjoy the games for the sake of the games. I enjoy each game right up to the point where they lose. I do not sit around worrying about what people will think of me based on whether the Hogs win or lose. I see people here posts all the time though about how they dread going to work on Monday after the Hogs lose because of what they will have to hear from a co worker who is a fan of another team. Or how it ruined their whole weekend when the Hogs lost.

As far as what the coaches can do, just keep offering better players, keep trying to sell them on what they can do here, and try to get as many better players as they can.

Agree with everything you said here, honestly. Could've written that post myself.

Just see you being pretty antagonistic about recruiting quite often, so I had to chirp at you a little No harm no foul.

You can definitely compete, and win, with lower ranked players (meaning fewer 4 and 5 *s), properly coached, but the question is where can you compete. I'm not convinced you can do that in the SEC west where the talent differential is so overwhelming. When you are getting beat by 20-30 points by three or four teams every year at some point despair sets in and the team underperforms in games where they should be competitive. Players need to play with attitude and confidence and believe they can beat anyone, without that edge Alabama linebackers will just destroy you and it becomes a vicious circle.

What most fans do, or should do, enjoy the games for the sake of the games. I enjoy each game right up to the point where they lose. I do not sit around worrying about what people will think of me based on whether the Hogs win or lose. I see people here posts all the time though about how they dread going to work on Monday after the Hogs lose because of what they will have to hear from a co worker who is a fan of another team. Or how it ruined their whole weekend when the Hogs lost.

As far as what the coaches can do, just keep offering better players, keep trying to sell them on what they can do here, and try to get as many better players as they can.

I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

Here's the problem with the "coach 'em up" theory. In this example, Arkansas is coaching up 2 and 3 star players. If everyone else has 3, 4, or 5 star players, they're starting out ahead of where you're starting out talent-wise.

Also, it assumes that you're out coaching them up while everyone else is standing still. Everyone else is also out there coaching them up.

Thought I read somewhere that something like 80% of fbs recruits in football are 3star, so having a roster full of them is not out of the ordinary. The issue is and will continue to be that many in the SEC have a larger # of the 4 and 5 stars, and have them on defense. So when the Hogs 3 & 4 star offensive talent goes up against their 4 and 5 star defense, guess who wins more often than not.

Here's the problem with the "coach 'em up" theory. In this example, Arkansas is coaching up 2 and 3 star players. If everyone else has 3, 4, or 5 star players, their starting out ahead of where you're starting out talent-wise.

Also, it assumes that you're out coaching them up while everyone else is standing still. Everyone else is also out there coaching them up.

All I know is that with one of the worst coaches in Razorback history at the helm - and despite Ole Miss paying players - Arkansas has beaten a much more talented (by star ratings) rebel team 4 years in a row.

Thought I read somewhere that something like 80% of fbs recruits in football are 3star, so having a roster full of them is not out of the ordinary. The issue is and will continue to be that many in the SEC have a larger # of the 4 and 5 stars, and have them on defense. So when the Hogs 3 & 4 star offensive talent goes up against their 4 and 5 star defense, guess who wins more often than not.

It's an excellent point. The number of 4 and 5 stars are usually limited by the recruiting guys--it gives the illusion of scarcity. You can't have competition--the thing that drives fan interest in recruiting--without scarcity. This isn't a scientific process by any stretch.

Thought I read somewhere that something like 80% of fbs recruits in football are 3star, so having a roster full of them is not out of the ordinary. The issue is and will continue to be that many in the SEC have a larger # of the 4 and 5 stars, and have them on defense. So when the Hogs 3 & 4 star offensive talent goes up against their 4 and 5 star defense, guess who wins more often than not.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that statement. The problem I had was when people claim that we are "full of 2 and 3 star" guys when we have more 4 stars than 2 stars.

I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

All I know is that with one of the worst coaches in Razorback history at the helm - and despite Ole Miss paying players - Arkansas has beaten a much more talented (by star ratings) rebel team 4 years in a row.

All I know is that with one of the best coaches in Razorback history at the helm--Alabama still fed Arkansas into a woodchipper as part of its 10 game series streak. Why? Because better players.

All I know is that with one of the best coaches in Razorback history at the helm--Alabama still fed Arkansas into a woodchipper as part of its 10 game series streak. Why? Because better players.

Right. Because the guys coaching at Alabama have nothing to do with it. Not like those recruits play for the greatest college football coach ever or anything. The players just develop themselves and coach themselves.

Folks. We are going to go through growing pains. Plain and simple. We won't be 4-8. But we will be in the bottom half of the West. The defense will have to learn a new scheme. The defense will have to play A LOT of minutes. I hope I am wrong but 7-5 tops.

Folks. We are going to go through growing pains. Plain and simple. We won't be 4-8. But we will be in the bottom half of the West. The defense will have to learn a new scheme. The defense will have to play A LOT of minutes. I hope I am wrong but 7-5 tops.

I'm just happy we are going back to a defense the kids are more familiar with. Also getting rid of the worst OL coach ever. We win win 7 games just on that!

Folks. We are going to go through growing pains. Plain and simple. We won't be 4-8. But we will be in the bottom half of the West. The defense will have to learn a new scheme. The defense will have to play A LOT of minutes. I hope I am wrong but 7-5 tops.

Learn a new scheme? Defense? Hell, we are going back to what we have run for years....true? In complete desperation mode, we change D (and O) under CBB to have 4LB now we are going back to 3LB

That shouldn't take much adjustment....

We have athletes....but some of coaches were too busy eating and drinking to develop our athletes....just a guess by the massive weight gain. But damn...there is no way we recruited in the top 25 (avg) over the past 5 years and don't have good athletes on the roster.

I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

My point is we are not loaded w 4-5 star guys - but we have tons of talent. It's a fact, we have mostly 2-3 star guys on the team - YOU look it up, I'm presenting it as fact, because it is. I agree we SHOULD be ranked #21 (or somewhere around that) - it fair because we have recruited in the top 25-30 for 5 years.

We have tons of undeveloped talent on the Current roster. Yes, plenty of 4 star guys (I think 16) - but lots of good athletes just under that - I think CCM will do a good job of developing the talent we have and we will have a surprising season next year.