NUJS Kolkata professor Shamnad Basheer and two students have threatened to complain to the Press Council of India about the law school rankings of national magazines Outlook India and India Today, which they allege suffered from "gross inaccuracies and methodological flaws" that violated "canons of journalistic ethics" and did a great disservice to students.

In separate letters sent to Outlook's editor Vinod Mehta and India Today's editor-in-chief Aroon Purie on 18 August 2010, Basheer and NUJS third-year students Shambo Nandy and Debanshu Khettry said that the magazines needed to examine and redress the matter of their 2010 rankings of law colleges, which were both re-published on Legally India on 22 June 2010.

Basheer told Legally India that there were very obvious errors in this year's Outlook ranking.

In the letter to the magazine the professor and the two students alleged that the weighting given to the "selection process" at colleges was not accurate, that "academic excellence" was not given enough weighting, college's placements were not reflected well and that faculty performance was not taken into account.

They also alleged that paid advertisements in Outlook and India Today's supplements appeared to have an effect on the respective ranking of a law college and requested for both magazines to explain NUJS's drop in the 2010 rankings.

NUJS dropped from second place in 2009 to fifth place in 2010's Outlook rankings, with Nalsar Hyderabad, ILS Pune and NLIU Bhopal pulling ahead of the Kolkata law school.

"The obvious ones where [Outlook] really goofed up on is the 'selection process' category," Basheer told Legally India. "For CLAT [the Common Law Admissions Test] all of these [CLAT] colleges have the same selection process but are marked differently.

"And Banaras Hindu University [BHU] got the highest marks for 'selection process' and the exam is worse than CLAT or as good as CLAT at best. The second mark is given to ILS Pune but ILS doesn't even have an entrance exam - they just select based on 12th standard marks," said Basheer.

"Secondly 'academic excellence' is given lower marks than 'selection process'," he added, stating that Outlook only allocated 200 marks to the former whereas potentially awarding up to 288 marks in the latter category.

In terms of recruitment Nalsar Hyderabad was judged by Outlook to have been ahead of NLSIU Bangalore, although NLSIU had a stronger recruitment performance that year according to independent data, Basheer said.

The process in the category of "faculty performance" was also not clear, noted Basheer. "They asked us for a whole bunch of data, they asked us not only for publications but photocopies of the key pages of the publications and to compile all of that. And in the end we find they've not even ranked faculty although they had it in 2008."

"Why did you drop faculty performance?" he asked. "This is an important indicator."

He also added that Outlook India had never appeared to independently verify data and that law schools inevitably inflated their figures, while "perceptual ranks" were determined by consulting anonymous stakeholders without transparency.

Finally, Basheer, Nandy and Khettry's letters also alleged that there was a correlation between advertisements law schools took out or declined to take out in the Outlook and India Today supplements and the eventual rankings of the respective colleges in the same supplement.

Basheer claimed that colleges that took out advertising generally did not ever drop to lower rankings. "It regularises the risk of rank inflation."

While he said that the errors in Outlook's rankings this year were a lot more glaring than India Today's, both magazines' methodologies were flawed and not transparent.

The students and Basheer wrote to the magazines: "We would appreciate a satisfactory response from you within the next one week of receipt of this letter, failing which we will be compelled to initiate appropriate proceedings before the Press Council of India under the Press Council (Procedure for Inquiry) Regulations, 1979."

Outlook's editor Mehta and India Today's editor-in-chief Purie were not immediately available for comment when emailed by Legally India.

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they missed rgnul 2.the best upcoming university now.rgnul has dne certainly wel in al major moot court n placements hve alredy started wth a year lft for the first batch 2 pas out wth aqverage of 7-8 lacs. n stil its nt in top 25

A few years back when these rankings had first come out; there was a grievance that NUJS wasn't in the right position. Prof Madhava Menon, founding Vice Chancellor, was of the view that the law school should not get into this mindless rat-race of 'rankings'. This view of Prof Menon was greatly respected by the then student body and nobody gave much importance to the said rankings. If the institution has a problem; then it it should be the proper Administration who should seek clarification. Individual compliants by law students or professors, though their frustration is understandable, might reflect poorly on institutional discipline of the law school.

@4: Wrong interpretation. Please read the letter. It does not only talk about NUJS being hampered but raises genuine concerns otherwise as well. Secondly, you need to understand that these national magazines are relied upon by thousands of students who venture to enter into the legal field. Giving them a wrong impression matters more than someone's worry of his/her college not being ranked appropriately.

@ 3 and 4. Its not about feeling insecure. These magazines influence the public opinion about university rankings. Responsible journalism entails that such rankings and report be factually correct and reasoned so that the public opinion is an informed one.

NUJS, by pointing out these grave flaws in methodology and conduct of Outlook rankings/officials has taken the right and a brave step forward.

Kudos to Shamnad, Khettry and Nandy. I am all for NLUs boycotting these rankings.

I appreciate the initiative because a large number of students especially from smaller towns get influenced by these rankings and pick colleges accordingly to the detriment of their careers. Stopping that is more important than anything else

Even those of us in NALSAR knew that our college's ranking in these "polls" were directly proportional to the size and scale of advertisements placed in the respective magazines. Our faculty members also confided privately that the methodology is rubbish and a loose fig leaf to "reward" the advertizers and punish the tight-fisted.

Everyone sane knows that NLSIU, NALSAR, NUJS and possibly NLU Jodhpur are more or less the same overall, with other National Law schools plus GLC, CLC and maybe ILS and Symby following behind, ranging from close to not-that-close behind. Any attempt to rank in numerical order is futile exercise and utterly arbitrary with the pretence of methodology and objectivity.

@5: Your concerns are understandable but I don't think this can be termed as "frustration" of law students and professors. This is a genuine concern put forward and rightly so. Views taken in the past may not stand the test of time and patience. As regards the complain, I am sure this is an institutional response. Also its not just about NUJS. Its about the entire ranking process and so many unfair things which happen.

Outlook's and India Today's rankings have never been right. Simply put they lack the expertise to do that. In 2005 when India Today put ILS at number 1, some students preferred ILS over NLSIU. Interestingly, in 2006 ILS slipped to a the 4-6 rank (don't remember the exact rank). These rankings end up misleading thousands of law aspirants which is very unfortunate.

I would love to see someone with knowledge and expertise in the legal field; someone like LegallyIndia/LST/Rainmaker come up with their ranking. And if I am right Bar Council of India too is planning to do something similar.

Whats with this Kolkata law school. They went on a strike sometime back, now fighting against injustice? What next supporting Naxalites or dividing themselves along political lines in West Bengal? Maybe they aspire to become a typical law college in India in as much as being very vocal and political.

Maybe that is the reason why recruitment pattern in my firm prefers NLS and now the Hyderbabd law school only.

these rankings are utter shit, they have no basis whatsoever..honestly speaking, one can't help but wonder how many non national law schools students actually get placed through their college recruitment process. the nonsense has been going on for a bit too long now, and seriously kudos to the concerned nujs people for bringing such gross inefficiency to light. and yeah, i agree with #2, but its not only rgnul, but all the omitted nationals, who should boycott such idiotic rankings and not be bothered about them.

All the NUJS, NALSAR, NLU friends writing the great things about thr college and their respective ranking, please note that none of the colleges have fulfilled the ambition for which they we give a special status by the government of India. It has been time and again said by various legal luminaries. These colleges were give the best and chosen brains to lead, however, just running in the race of being recruited by the shroffs or the luthra's or some even managing a seat at the CC or W&C, you have nothing great to add to the legal reform by Indian government.

Law schools are not just made for this. I guess thats the reason why the maximum litigators, PPs, profs and the judiciary belongs to remaining 900 law schools of the country. I am would request that outlook and india today should also consider this aspect in thr rankings. Law schools are not only for giving associates to these law firms, but much more and as of date the so called "National Law Schools" have failed in doing anything apart from that.

Our judicial and the teaching system needs the best of brains to add to the betterment of the legal system and rather not running behind the hourly rates paid by big MNCs.

to ur relief the letter is being circulated within the legal fraternity, ideally it should have been published in the national newspapers questioning the role of media as to how- for their own greed they come up with such ranking and misguide college aspirants.

@ 17 seriously, Which law firm do you belong to?

@ 12 GLC, mumbai will continue to show in the top 25 list for next hundred years, reason are - 1) its alumni list and 2) the students studying in the college, who without any facility and faculty also are doing remarkably well!!!

Interesting, let's see if any action is taken by the Press Council of India. But it's of no doubt that in today's competitive environment rankings do matter especially for a confused High School Student. It's without doubt if i did not have the benefit of advice of my teachers in LST i would have made a mistake in choosing the right law school based on India today's rank chart. Better still the letter does not seem to air a grievance with respect to NUJS's rank only but questions the methodology adopted for the entire ranking hence should benefit all and sundry. It looks like a lot of us are taught the law but some in NUJS are using it. :0

#21 I am from a UK Magic Circle. You can confirm this from the editor of LI, though I would expect LI to just confirm that and to not disclose my identity or that of my firm. #20 Remember rankings do not matter as much as perceptions do, in case anyone is interested in this "unjust" world of corporate law firms.

And BTW: these are my personal views on the spur of the momement - I may be entirely wrong about your college

Thanks Kian - Needless to state I and a lot of others have this faith in your website's editorial and privacy policy. This perhaps is the reason we get such a lively debate on this website. Beleive me the write-up and the comments help shape up the startegy of many fimrs today! Keep it up

@24: Thank you for your response. You have suggested that rankings do not matter as much as perceptions do. It is mentioned in our letter as well (if you have gone through it) that perceptions are influenced by these rankings. Therefore, not reflecting the true picture (which journalists are supposed to and are duty bound to) creates a negative impact and influences the very perceptions you are talking about.

I am a third year law student from NUJS. I expected some sort of maturity from a Magic Circle firm associate/employee, etc. {Sincere apologies if I hurt your ego}. I appreciate that you do understand that comments made on the spur of the moment might be wrong.

I also hope that you understand that comments like "What next supporting Naxalites or dividing themselves along political lines in West Bengal? Maybe they aspire to become a typical law college in India in as much as being very vocal and political. "

- from a Magic Circle firm, does not put a good light on what you yourself think of and how reactionary you are. Such a comment was totally uncalled for, though this is an open forum and your views are well respected. You are free to make whatever comments you want though societal implications will take their way accordingly.

Unrelated discussion from Facebook fan page on Noojie and NUJS-er: I said: "My experience is that not everyone outside of NUJS knows what Noojies are. And besides Google likes 'NUJS-ers' better than 'Noojies'."

A Facebooker replied: "also, in my first year i discovered that prior generations of 'NUJS-ers' considered being called 'noojies' to be derog."

I am interested - what is the PC thing to call an NUJS person? Please don't reply in the below thread as very off topic, but please let us know if you like being called 'Noojie' or there is another term in our forum:

Hey guys. Lets not discuss it any more. #24 is from Magic Circle Firm...so he is definitely most intelligent person on this forum and obviously living in UK, he/she knows best about what in important for law aspirants in India. So let his/her word be the last word.

And btw what was the need to even tell that he is from a Magic Circle Firm??? Do we guys really care???

Maybe the reason why most from national law schools do not go into litigation and other such kinds of work is because of the salaries offered by the Shroffs and Luthras. The fees in the NLUs is exceptionally high, much more than the traditional law colleges and more than just greed for money, often it is necessity which spurs people to join these law firms.

i'm from an NLU that knows exactly what the noojies are pissed off about. NLUs work very hard to upgrade their infrastructure and regular faculty - both of which are almost uniformly substandard at NLUs. We make these improvements because we need to stay relevant for our own sakes. In recent times, NLUJ has gone about drastically improving physical infrastructure while NUJS has aggressively recruited fantastic faculty. This is difficult to do and they both deserve credit for it.

Please note that no NLU is specifically asking for credit for their facilities. India Today and Outlook rank us out of their own volition; all that is being asked for is a measure of transparency in motives and methodology. Not only does the present system insult an institution of repute, it misleads aspirants who do not know any better. For example, while ILS has several plus points, I can only feel sorry for those who preferred it over NLS post the magazine ranking ILS as #1.

@17 - you're right, we misguided law students do occasionally fight for diversity (the IDIA project), for clarity (the bar exam), and for transparency (the ranking system). Sorry for not being more apathetic/submissive, because that's what law school's all about, isn't it. When we grow old and indifferent, and want a pen-pushing job, no doubt we'll join you in your Magic Circle firm. Until then you can continue to review documents and we will continue to fight.

#24. You are a UK magic circle lawyer. Wow !! You should be the one who should be ranking the colleges. Not outlook/ India today. If you think NUJS is not a good college, then you must be right. You are my god, my hero !!!All you Noojies / NUJS-ers - please drop out of college immediately...you know what my hero thinks of your college.

I think that we are deviating from the purpose of this article. The India today/Outlook rankings are, and have always been highly misleading. It was high time that someone took some concrete action against them. Kudos to NUJS for making the move.Unless someone suggests that the rankings are actually correct and a true and fair reflection of the colleges, most comments here reflect the typical Indian herd mentality of sitting back, doing nothing and passing snyde remarks at those who are willing to put in the trouble for making things better.

I am a former student of NUJS (first batch). I am sure that Prof Basheer knows that the Press Council of India is totally useless and there's no point approaching them. I am also not convinced whether Outlook and India Today (shitty rags though they are) violated any PCI guidelines. All newspaper rankings worldwide are biased. If Prof Basheer and the students want NUJS to receive some good publicity then they should look inward and ask MP Singh to shed certain hang-ups. For example:

1) Prof MP Singh once told us that while Prof Ranbir Singh is his close friend, he disagrees with his agressive marketing methods to promote NALSAR, such as issuing advertisements in India Today and kowtowing to corporates. Sorry, but he needs to understand that these are exactly the methods university heads should employ to promote their colleges. Many top foreign universities advertise in magazines. There is a difference between a crude IIPM-style and a dignified ad for Oxford and Harvard. Prof Singh should also pursue tie-ups with foreign universities and woo corporate houses for grants.

2) The faculty and infrastructure at NUJS does not justify the price. Many teachers are very poor. The hostel facilities have gone from bad to worse.

3) NUJS got a second plot of land five years in a prime spot five years ago, but they have done nothing to develop it. They might as well sell the land to a developer and use the money to improve the present campus.

4) Why is Prof Singh embarrassed to approach politicans for help? Mamata wields a lot of power at the centre and can easily arrange for several grants. NALSAR was unabashed about their relationshiop with Chandrababu Naidu during th NDA years. Why does Prof Singh have to be so introverted?

Yes, NUJS is among the top 3 law schools and the India Today rankings are miselading. But surely Prof Basheer should think about the flaws in of Prof Singh's policies?. When Prof Menon was at NUJS it was considered the second best NLU. Now it'sconsidered the third best. Why the decline?

We have over 900 law schools and colleges in India that put out about 60,000 law graduates every year according to the Bar Council of India. The real concern should not be about NUJS or Symbi or GLC. There should be more depth to there rankings - we need to look into the quality of institutions that will be ranked from 30 to 900. They are the ones that are suspect. The national law schools and a few private ones like amity, symbi, etc will be fine regardless. Legal education in India needs a step up. If you are a law grad, please give back to the profession in the form of education and endowments.

Though I do not agree with the rankings, however, would like to know whether India Today / Outlook violated any law or regulation or guideline applicable to them. We, as lawyers, should first ascertain whether NUJS has a strong case.

Basheer says that academic excellence has been given lower weightage than selection process. So? Isn't that the prerogative of the magazine to give whatever weightage they want to give? A reader may agree or disagree with the rankings/weightage, etc. but is there any regulation/guideline which states that magazines have to give certain wieghtage on certain categories when ranking colleges. If a magazine drops 'faculty performance' from the criteriae, again its their methodology....you may agree or you may disagree, but what wrong is the magazine committing by dropping this criteria...serious enough that it should be hauled up by the PCI? I don't think that a magazine is required to justify to its readers as to why they chose one criteria over another 9or gave more weightage on one criteria over the other).Recently, Outlook ran a ranking on the performance of union ministers and gave them marks (5/10, 7/10, etc.). I did not hear any minister running to the PCI complaining about him being marked low. Why, because it might have been too petty for them.What about law firm rankings and awards? Legal500, Chambers, etc. also provide rankings. How do they rank them? Every month we hear of law firms winning awards, etc. How are they chosen? How come we don't hear of managing partners of law firms suing these award functions and publications because they were not awarded/ranked (though they may feel that they deserved it). I will tell you why.....its too petty for them.Now the argument that will be advanced is that prospective students are being misled. If that is the case, why did the top rankers in CLAT choose NLS/NALSAR/NUJS as their top priority (as per LIs report on this earlier). It would be in a very rare case that a person who gets admission in NUJS would drop it for ILS. Grow up NUJS !! You are making it look like a case of sour grapes (while I am sure that it is not the case). You know where you stand and what you are, you know your faculty strengths, you know your campus recruitments. This actually looks cheap. Basheer is doing a great job with IDIA. It would be great to see him continue with these kind of initiatives rather than getting after petty stuff.And I won't be suprised if these magazines do not reply to Basheer's letter. It would have found its way to the trash can of the editors. Again, I don't agree with the rankings. And I think NUJS is a great college.

According to Wikipedia, Outlook had once ranked NUJS ahead of NALSAR while Mint had rated NUJS's academic quality higher than both NLSIU and NALSAR. Does this mean that NALSAR and NLSIU should sue them? Grow up guys! What really matters is placements. NUJS, NLSIU and NALSAR are all pretty much at par. There is very little difference between the three. It is like trying to distinguish between Harvard, Yale and Columbia.

Nobody takes Outlook and India Today seriously, not just in the case fo rankings but also in terms of general news. Prabhu Chawla? ROTLFMAO.

Just one additional point: While magazines are free to rank colleges what they cannot do is rank collges which issue ads at a higher place. This constitutes a form of paid news. Amity and IIPM are the biggest offenders.

I don't think anyone takes the rankings seriously. I taught students at LST on a part time basis and everyone had NLSIU/NUJS/NALSAR in their top 3. Next was Jodhpur, Bhopal, GNLU etc. But parents who are ignorant may be confused.

The first batch of NUJS is the best batch of NUJS ... and now NUJS dont have that talent which they had once upon a time. I know a guy from Kolkata who got into NUJS under NRI quota and now he is AMSS, Mumbai. He was doing tutorial with me in Elgin Road. Then there are people from SC candidates who are into AMSS and other good law firms. So, it is but obvious that general candidates will join private law schools and they will give their level best. Prof. Basheer, I request you to come to private law schools and teach the students. You wont find much difference between NUJS students and them. Private law school students are already interning in Singapore and UAE law firms and have already created good impressions over there. So, those days are not far when AMSS, Luhtra and Trilegal will understand this.

I do agree with # 42, but to a certain extent.I've headed LST for close to 2 years and have noticed a disquieting trend- even the most seemingly rational of law school students seem to be on shaky ground regarding the troika being the top 3 law schools in the country.Some have even gone to the extent of imputing that 2 of the three actually provide a fertile ground for breeding Naxalites and other recidivists !!others have been lulled into believing that locational advantage (proximity to the Apex Court) is the best and ONLY criterion for choosing a law school.Not to mention specious claims such as the critical importance of AC classrooms and the like...

Therefore, Shamnad and his students' efforts are truly laudable. Its high time that someone took the bold step of nailing some lies and prevarications which are greatly inimical to students' futures ! Being an ex- student of NUJS

In America colleges are ranked by the Princeton review according to various criteria, including best party colleges. Some websites even do a "Colleges with hottest chicks" ranking! Would love to see that in the case of our law schools.

magazines like outlook and india today are indeed playing with young minds in the country by duping them.....as a matter of fact symbiosis law school doesn't deserve a place in top 8...n same is d case with amity.....its a known fact that the symbi ...and amity entrance tests are rigged....n ils n glc just have a name...hardly any placements.... trust me guys i m studying in ILS pune...n our placements are worse than even symbiosis law school.....n as far as national law schools are concerned ...dey are way ahead of us....nls,nalsar,nujs,nlu j,gnlu,nliu...deserve a place in the top 6...n after dat we come.... dey have a superior crowd....u hardly find ppl here in ILS or symbi who crack clat and come here...rather every1's first preference was clat ....

Paisa, Politics, and Propaganda three words that rule almost everything in India..Honesty being an endangered virtue... i just hope that the NUJS people some honest motive behind thier efforts rather than the alleged cheap publicity for themselves n thier University!! Wish you guys the best... But keep one thing in mind "study of law" means something very much beyond NLUs.

@47: I have maintained an association with NUJS after graduating and I know Prof Singh personally. I admire him as an academic but not as an administrator. I will not say anything more as I wish to keep my identity anonymous. As for the plot in Rajarhat, it is you who is mistaken my young friend. The allocation happened during Prof Chimni's time. The plot was meant to be developed as a second campus. You should ask Prof Singh before making uninformed statements.

The national law schools are clearly not fulfilling their stated purpose by having most of their students joining firms doing transactional law. The dearth of able people taking up litigation/advocacy is one of the reasons why senior advocates continue with charging enormous fees for their appearance in court.

The NLS's are going the same way as the IITs and IIMs - tax payers' money used to for subsidising the best education available in the country. IITians opt for the trading floor (through IIMs and investment banks) rather than the factory shop floor - or the govt research institutions, or even return as faculty. IIM grads tend to prefer the investment banks, hedge funds, etc eager to spend their time speculating in "exotic" financial products rather than running real brick and mortar companies.

Not the best way to repay their debt to society for giving them a vastly subsidised education.

And, if anyone joined IIPM reading their page-long adverts rather than deserve to be conned. With the internet there is no excuse, not even for people hailing from small towns, for not doing a bit of research on the net before choosing their careers.

Lastly, NUJSian sounds a tad better than noojie or the downright ghastly Nujs-er.

Are you all law students or law aspirants? almost everyone has replied in some emotions and all. Try to keep your emotions inside when you are in this field.1. They have threatened, not filed the complain.(If i am not wrong)2. They are private companies so on what ground you will go against them?

Now, today I will on behalf of law firm magazine or company magazine or on any survey conducted by eminent legal advertisers, etc gonna put nujs or any college out of rank 10 or after rank 5, can anyone has right to complain or sue me or the company?

its like the college wanna tell i am better than that college, why that college will sit and say oh yah, you are better, comeon no one will accept this.Will any student of any college will say my college is poor than that college? If yes, you are accepting the defeat.if you cant make your college the best in the list, dont put claims on college.

Anyway, rankings and all doesnt matter and after passing out, you hardly think over it. I will just say one thing to them who wanna file any complain, GROW UP, better try your energy in getting more better than rankings idiotness.

These rankings by magzines are indeed a very dangerous trend because most of these magzines have a good reputation and thus people generally believe whatever is printed in them, without giving a second thought to the contents or judging its veracity. I remember when I joined NUJS in 2006, India Today had placed us in the th or the fifth position with ILS and Symbiosis Law colleege coming us!!!!!! Symbiosis before NUJS- are you kidding me????? and the funny part was that some students who had gotten through the NUJS entrance that actually pulled out of NUJS and joined symbi!!! I have spoken to some of them and they are now indeed very much sorry...This kind of journalism misguides and corrupts both young innocent students and their parents who might not be knowing too much about the legal field. Should this irresponsible journalism continue????? You guys decide....

[...] Making a complaint will neither solve the problem nor will it make NUJS a better or worse place than what it is. If a prospective law student aged 18 years or thereabouts chooses symbi or amity over Nujs, based on the ranking, then he or she has gone to where he or she really deserves to be. usually it is the parents who are such morons. Low prices and rising costs together with need to satisfy the shareholders financial targets have rendered journalism resemble the world's oldest profession. PCI is their private club and nothing will come out if making a complaint to it. If they could not gather the guts to say anything on the who published paid news, how can one expect it to act on this. The Prostitutes Club of India is their handmaiden.

I have sympathy for the students and the faculty of NUJS and of the other law schools, since they put a great store by these rankings and are obviously miffed if these slip. However, I would have thought the best retort would have been to show their metier by their results and their recruitments and by the success of their alumni in the years to come, rather than object to the methodology by which the magazines/newspapers set the rankings. After all rankings are what prospective students and ill-informed recruiters go by. The best recruiters and the Courts still go by the talent of the individual students and not the tags. For example, in the Calcutta High Court, I am yet to find any student from NUJS or the National Law School from Bangalore (I forget its full name) make a big mark. Symbiosis on the other hand has several notable--though obviously junior--members of the Bar who have made a name for themselves. I hasten to assure you, I am a middle aged lawyer from a Non-Clat, barely known law college which was once the University's Law College and now is a Department of that University, and therefore have no particular partisan feeling for any particular CLAT law school.

"For example, in the Calcutta High Court, I am yet to find any student from NUJS or the National Law School from Bangalore (I forget its full name) make a big mark".

This is an ignoramus statement. The oldest student from the oldest batch of NUJS (est. in 1999) would have a max. 5 years of practice in any Court. No one can make a mark in 5 yeras of litigation practice.

Symbi, which is a way older law school can be reasonably expected to have its share of good litigators. Its been there for 30 years now. 30 years means 10 times more students (symbi's intake is more too) and a significant time spent in litigation.

Also, when the top 40 rankers at NUJS and NLS are getting 15 lac/annum from day 1 of passing out why would they sweat in infrastructually poor, merit-discouraging Indian courts?

@ rest we Noojies want to bring the curtain down on the lies and suppression of material facts by India today & Outlook. Although students are well aware of the rankings & reputations, parents often are confused and misguided by the information in these stupid magazines. It will take at least 50 years for India to come out with something similar to Prineton Review till then lets do whatever we can. I should mention here my friends from Engineering & Medical Colleges often fume about these rankings but the problem is less prevalent there due to the overall public awareness (alongwith public craze) about medical and engineering degrees.

@ 45 good observation. Lol. I guess the rankings with Colleges with hottest chicks would be like GLC, Symbi, Amity, DU, GNLU, NALSAR, RGNLU, ICFAI Dehradun, ILS, Fergusson Pun & et al. With due respect to everyone & offence to none. Remember folks - beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. :-)

i think there is much more to law schools than believing in these stupid rankings. i feel that nujs have nothing better to do than to write these nonsensical letters to editors and crying "please increase my rank"...hahha rofl go ahead...however it would have been appreciated had nujs faculty and students rather focused on increasing their ability...... throwing mud over fellow national law schools in full public and thereby suggesting that they pay money for these stupid rankings run against counter to my belief of nujs as a responsible institution..shame on u nujs go cry and get an increment in ur rank.....that is what u ppl want.

This in respect of the learned friend who commented as No.61: "This is an ignoramus statement. The oldest student from the oldest batch of NUJS (est. in 1999) would have a max. 5 years of practice in any Court. No one can make a mark in 5 yeras of litigation practice."

So far as I know a statement cannot be 'ignoramus'. It is the person who makes that statement who can be called an "ignoramus". Having been a practising lawyer for some time, I have forgotten the art of villifying the opposing counsel rather than the case made out by him. However, as a matter of fact we have learned advocates in our High Court who have made a name for themselves in 5 years. One of them comes from Symbiosis, though most are from the University of Calcutta. I rarely make general statements without having data to back it up. Another effect of being a practising lawyer.

As far as the last sentence in Post No.61 is concerned, perhaps the learned commentator has forgotten what was the original reason cited by the Bar Council of India for establishing such law schools? To make better professional lawyers and increase the standard of teaching and study of law and the legal profession. I do not deny that 15 lakhs an year is a magnetic incentive for a fresh law graduate, compared to the grind that he/she has to go through to become a successful lawyer/advocate. However working as a solicitor's associate (pardon my archaic language, in Calcutta we still refer to law firms as solicitor firms though since 1961 there has been no solicitor as such in theory)is not what Mr. Harish Salve, Mr. Ram Jethmalani, Mr. Fali S Nariman or Mr. Vengupal or Mr. Mukul Rohtagi, not to mention Mr. Shanti Bhushan are known for. Perhaps even you, the author of Post No.61 will agree, it is worthwhile to want to emulate these luminaries? They earn quite a lot more than Rs.15 lakhs an year, by the way!

Harish Salve, Ram Jethmalani et al??? These are legends with decades of practice under their belt!!! You better compare them to Cyrril Shroff and Zia Mody.

For a law student who has just passed out law firms provide money and security. And students from NUJS, NLSIU, NALSAR etc come from all over India. So even if they are litigating they prefer the SC and or the Delhi HC, Bombay HC etc or courts from states from where they belong.

Why students from local universities like CU join the local bars is simple. The students/crowd is local and is not good enough make it to the top firms.

And btw...you cite the example of one symbi student!! Is that data or an incident?

Your 'orginal purpose of establishing NLUs' statement too carries no weight. While law firms attract law students like magnets, litigators repel good talent like pigs. Litigators don't pay the students at all; do not give them good work/cases and treat them like pests.

Why would any NLU student (except those really enthused and fascinated by the prospects) want to go into the bar, which has nothing in the name of the professionalism? Even the transformation from a junior to a senior does not have any time period or merit based consideration.

Pay them 30k/ month (min.), give them good work and good work conditions and they will surely join the bar.

@ 65: a good response. I would also like to add that you just cant blame people for joining law firms paying high salaries and ignoring the bar. Many students study on loans and they need to repay that as soon as they get out of college. Please think twice before making any stray comments.

Good work NUJS. People who wish to malign u have no better work. There isnt an iota of doubt that what you are doing stands as a genuine concern. I have read the letter. It talks about revealing the data on which such rankings were made. Nowhere does it cry foul and asks for NUJS' rank to be increased. So those who are cribbing, please grow up urself. Read the letter and make constructive comments.

@ 59: Phlebas: Sorry but you should read the letter first. It does give references to what the merits of NLS and NUJS are. It also talks about how people are swayed by these rankings and make wrong decisions. It is not denied that some people have the benefit of LST and other resources or some people have resources to make an informed choice. But the whole of India does not have this advantage. God forbid if tom ur son/daughter makes a wrong decision, you will surely not like it. So please please think about the whole of India, all the students before just slinging mud at NUJS for having no other work to do.

#71: What is wrong with u? Firstly that comment has come from someone in Delhi (Kian may verify this). Secondly that is written in place of nickname, which can be anything. Even your own name (whatever it is) could mean a slang in some African/ South American/ etc. language. What do you mean hope "he" is not from NUJS.

I agree that the ranking is flawed and misleading, but to see an educational institution whine over rankings which are not important to begin with is deplorable. Rankings are NEVER perfect and in fact are often skewed. You will hardly ever find two people agree on rankings. One would expect "Professors" to know better and steer clear from attemmpting to change an old journalistic marketing method.

A prestigious publication such as Newsweek came out with their ranking of what they perceive as the most livable countries in the world. They got a lot of flak for their methodology and the choices they made. Does that mean that some country should move a UN General Assembly resolution to issue a rebuke to Newsweek's owners? Given the wide circulation of Newsweek, I do not have to assert the fact that it influences many more people and institutions all over the world in the choices they make. Truth be told, a lot of people rely on a singular news weekly for their regular dose of international affairs news. This makes Newsweek at times the sole source of information on international affairs.

Many of you would have heard of the US News rankings and the recently popular Jiao Tong University rankings. The US News rankings and the Jiao Tong University rankings do not always show Harvard and Yale in the top 5 on MANY occassions. Has that ever lead to Professor Kraakman or Grossman filing a complaint with the FCC in the US? NO. Why? Because they have better things to do. Like the pursuit of academic excellence for starters.

Professor Shamsheed has lost a LOT of respect and credibility in my book for sensationalising what is a trivial issue to most.

Truly elite academia never worries about laurels. If they can impart the highest quality education, they could be least concered about what appears in just one of the fifty two editions of one of the many weeklies available in India. The majority of India Today and Outlook magazines are read by urban to suburban households. NUJS should focus on extending their efforts to reach out to the lesser privileged sections of our society. Its not as if thse sections are clusters of light headed idiots.

Very disappointing behaviour from NUJS.

Lastly, Kian, could you let us know how you happen to know whether a comment posted on LegallyIndia is from a magic circle law firm? The IP address does not list the name of the firm, so how would you know if it is a magic circle firm?

I beg your pardon. With all due respect, I do not think you've answered my question at all. Therefore, the question of further, or as you put it - 'more' revelation does not arise.

Did I miss anything here?

As a person who posts on your site, I think I deserve a more elaborate response than the one you have just provided. This is in our interest as the knowledge that you are aware of not only our IP address but also the particular company which we work for is rather disconcerting and would certainly prevent a more frank discussion.

It is really nothing sinister. It turns out that at least one of the magic circle firms has IP addresses in at least one office that actually mention the name of the firm when resolved to alphabetical domain names via an IP lookup. A few international firms or companies have such IP addresses, although I do not think any Indian law firms do. As a matter of routine we do not cross-check or resolve IP addresses of comments. And even if we did cross-check these, I promise you that we would keep this confidential as far as possible.

Some firms have requeseted for us to disclose IP addresses of commenters but we have always declined to do so and have strongly resisted threats of proceedings to force us to. Our servers are based in the UK and subject to stronger UK data protection laws.

Unless ordered by a court or law enforcement to disclose IP addresses, we will not do so.

Now the reason I did not want to say more is that from this you might be able to figure out which firm it is (if you had a lot of free time and no life), so we will leave it at that. Any comments naming or guessing the firm would obviously be moderated.

Plus it is quite a technical discussion and will probably bore most readers.

Hope that explains it.

Best regardsKian

ps: For those bored by this discussion, a short explanation: Every website you travel will receive your IP address, which is a unique number that (almost) every computer on the internet has. To find out your real identity from an IP address is usually difficult and normally requires your internet service provider to disclose this data. If you are worried/paranoid about this google for "anonymous proxy", which can enable you to browse the web more anonymously.

Thanks. I really wish you would have just told me that in your previous comment.

Rest assured, I have neither the inclination nor the time to indulge in finding out oabout bscure IP addresses. In fact, your explanation has not made me any more the wiser on which international law firms' IP address show up their name.

And no, I do not think that something as significant as privacy can be dismissed with innocuous labels such as 'technical'. As lawyers, a lot of what we do is technical as well. Why not dismiss that as well?

Anyway, I hope that you do not see anything sinister in the comments. Its just commenters wishing to know more about the site they devote atleast 20 minutes of their day to.

"NUJS should focus on extending their efforts to reach out to the lesser privileged sections of our society. Its not as if thse sections are clusters of light headed idiots. Very disappointing behaviour from NUJS".

Well, I hope you have heard about the IDIA project and the people who are involved in it.

(If you haven't). The IDIA (Increasing diversity by increasing access to legal education) project seeks to find ways to reach out to students from economically poor or underprivileged regions of India, sensitize them to law as a career option and help those interested to acquire admission to the top National Law Universities.

The project has been conceptualised and spearheaded by Prof. Shamnad Basheer.

"Some firms have requeseted for us to disclose IP addresses of commenters but we have always declined to do so and have strongly resisted threats of proceedings to force us to. "

How dare they ask for it! Who the hell do these people think they are??? I suspect someone from the anti-liberalisation lobby is behind this. I got news for you buddy, every single student of every single law school is against SILF and wants foreign law firms. Why don't you send a legal notice to the VCs of NLSIU, NALSAR and NUJS?

@71: suar ka baccha is slang in both hindi and bengali, probably other languages too. you hope that the person who used it is not from NUJS? LOL..today's students use F-words at the drop of a hat. delhiwallas are the worst as they use really crude hindi abuses all the time.

I think NUJS should focus on these commendable initiatives which show the law school as pioneering and not domineering.

The agitation against the rankings really does not befit an institute like NUJS. It is hoped that they will realise their overblown reaction to what remains a trifling issue and return to doing what they do best. Excel in legal education and research.

@83 :As pointed out already, the ire in the letter is directed against the flawed rankings per se which mislead many young students and their parents. You would be naiive to suggest that it does not. And I tell you what, this is NOT a trifling issue. (May be it is for YOU). The letter is not meant to whine about NUJS's rank. As you have so rightly pointed out yourself, we have better things to do. Like legal research, articleship, moots, academia. And trust me, we are doing it pretty well. We do not need an India Today certificate to show where we stand amongst law schools. Amen.

Ermmm...for the 5000 law aspirants who are from big cities, are rich and study at LST/IMS etc. the rankings of India Today/Outlook/Mint do not matter. They have these coaches/mentors etc. to guide them. As far as I know (a fact corrobroated by LegallyIndia) too; the prefrences go as: NLSIU-NALSAR-NUJS-NLIU-NLUJ.

For the rest of the 10,000 law aspirants rankings given by India Today,Outlook etc. matter. They base their decisions on these rankings. Can you imagine how big a blunder someone committed in 2005 when he/she preferred ILS over NLS just because India Today said so. Steps like this letter by NUJS pointing out the methodological flaws in the rankings, aim at preventing such catastrophes.

Even when IDIA teams go to schools in poor/rural regions we tell them why NLUs and other top law schools offer them good careers and good education. Ideally, we should also have good data/rankings so as to convince the students of what we say. Such rankings which are ill-informed, pathetically researched and 'influenced by advertisments' do not augur well for IDIA-like initiatives also.

Boy I love this college NUJS :-)) - when most colleges act as sycophants, pay money for advertisements and treat the magazine researchers lavishly, NUJS has actually taken the risk to challenge and question their ranking methods thereby endangering its own ranking in the years to come. HATS OFF TO U GUYS!! This is guts, this is true lawyerly conduct!Keep it up.

There is one person who is escaping scrutiny in this discussion: the SJA president. It is the repsonsibility of the SHA president to ensure that NUJS gets good publicity and has good relations with the media. Look at the NUJS website , which is maintained by the SJA. The design is absolutely pathetic and filled with grammatical errors and dead links. The SJA Prex ust also push for greater corporate involvement. This has not been done.

@: Mr.Ganesan. Seriously. Come again. Why shouldn't ANYONE fight against injustice? You seem to be like one of those Sudhir's (you need not know who he is, just a metaphor) who cribs about Harvard, and what not and things like this don't happen there. TYPICAL HERD MENTALITY. WAKE UP. THIS IS INDIA. NUJS IS NOT HARVARD (THOUGH PROBABLY IN THE FUTURE IT WILL BECOME ONE). THEN PROBABLY THEY WILL NOT WHINE ABOUT RANKINGS FOR POOR UNINFORMED SOULS. I repeat, this is India where the ground reality is that people DO get affected by such faulty rankings.

HAVE U EVEN GONE THROUGH THE LETTER? IT DOESN'T WHINE ABOUT NUJS RANKINGS. IT QUESTIONS OVERALL METHODOLOGICAL FLAWS AND ASKS THAT DATA BE REVEALED. YOU GAVE SOME TRASH ABOUT NEWSWEEK. WHO SAYS THAT EXISTING IDEOLOGIES CANNOT BE CHALLENGED? NUJS IS DOING JUST THAT. HELPING THE UNINFORMED WITH THE RISK OF ITS OWN RANKINGS BEING JEOPARDIZED IN THE FUTURE.

Today NUJS is raising voice because they have gone down as per India Today and Outlook. They are not at all concerned about mis-guided students. In that case, NLS and NALSAR would have joined you people. Out of 120 students 30 students more or less are good rest of them are just like students private law school students.

The year in which law firms didnt turn up to NUJS because of recession, where did you all go ? Siting at home or joining senior advocates in Delhi and Calcutta. Some of them even ended up joining LPOs. You people have a good placement forum which other law schools lack. Thats it ! Thanks to your first two batches. They were exceptionally good. The magazines are not incorrect in ranking you.

To the guy supporting the SJA [...] and claiming that the NUJS website is great: Please dude, there is a limit to dishonesty. Just ask any student and they will tell you that they think that the SJA is a big joke. The SJA receives tons of money but no useful work ever seems to get done. The website is only a very small example. There are so many other things.... I really don't see the point in having student committes. They should all be disbanded apart from MCS and Legal Aid. I don't want to take names but there are certain people who join committes only to boost their CV and they even admit it proudly.

@96: Excellent observations Sir! I wish India Today would have taken you on the panel while deciding on the ranks (I am assuming they didn't considering NUJS managed to find a place on the list! lol). "You people have a good placement forum which other law schools lack. Thats it ! " - wow, what insights.You are doing law aspirants great favour.

I find it utterly astounding that so few people seem to agree with what NUJS is doing here.

In the previous LI story comments there was not a single person who could agree with the India Today /outlook rankings and everyone cribbed, complained and insulted the magazines.

But everyone just sat on their backside and did nothing but crib from their armchairs. Now some students/prof at a college actually try to do something about it and actually call the magazines to account or get them to improve or highlight that such rankings are not perfect, and all you guys have to do is crib on college partisan lines.

Honestly, get a life and some consistency. If you accept the rankings are flawed and nonsense, it is good someone is trying to tell this like it is. The fact is, they are terribly influential and do make a lot of parents choose where to send their kids, sometimes wrongly.

It is a racket and you are all being part of it by not supporting NUJS and continuing to buy magazine ads, play the game and get higher rankings.

@97 : Whatever issues you may have with the SJA, please take it up yourself and approach the relevant authority in college. Whatever u do, do not crib abt it on a public forum - u r doing your college a great disservice. Try to bring about improvements yourself, by putting up your hand and contributing to the system rather than just pulling down others. The latter creates negative publicity, the former may just make a positive difference to your college.

Great work Kian and LI - u guys have also played an important role in higlighting the flawed rankings of India Today. Of all the Indian legal websites, I rank LI no. 1 for being the most informative and stimulating - keep it up :-).

@98 - Kings College, London and UCL and Queen Marry do not have any placement committee as such. But these are the colleges which places their students with reputed law firms through training contract. Strong Placement Committee doesnt necessarily mean college has to be highly ranked. One more thing, I personally know few of your seniors from first batch. They are no doubt excellent. But, that quality now lacks in NUJS. Students from KLA or SOEL are very good in moots but they opt for litigation or judiciary. That is why they dont have a strong placement cell.

Instead of blaming India Today or Outlook you should contemplate on the reason for your detoriation. Even magic fircle firms as mentioned in previous comments doesnt prefer NUJS these days because of your arrogance.

@103: The university of london colleges do not need placement committees as these colleges are very old and well known. most people from these college opt for TCs and you do not need really need campus recruitment for TCs. besides, there are hundreds of good law firms in the uk and the recruitment is very transparent and accessible to all . there are no foreign law firms in india (thanks to SILF) and the recruitment is very unprofessional and often not based on merit.

@ 104- You are right. This what I am trying to say that you people are lucky because of your senior batch that they have developed a strong placement committee for you which the law firms recognise. But, please dont think because you are placed in tier 1 law firms, India Today should rank you at higher places. Law School is not all about getting a plaement in AMSS OR Luthra. There may be a student from Delhi University who wishes to join politics after doing law, just like most of the senators of White House who join politics after passing out from Yale/ Harvard.

You expect India Today should rank you because you are a great Associate. Somebody may think India Today should rank him because he is a much smarter law maker than you. Your urge and expectation to join a foreign law firm (or your fate of joining a foreign law firm) is dependent on that non-NLU lawmaker my friend. :-) :-)

@103: Mr.J. NUJS is doing excellent in terms of foreign placements as well. The very Magic Circle comment u r talking about has received so many negative votes that even LI is not showing it now. Stop whining unnecessarily. Read the letter and challenge the letter and its contents and not NUJS. It will not do you any good.

@105: PLEASE READ THE LETTER. NUJS is not saying to rank itself higher because it has good placements. NUJS is asking for verification of data. Its asking that data be revealed. It is challenging the methodology. Its the magazines who are rating colleges on placements.

@ 111- I would love to read the letter. But, why you people are so concerned about your rankings. IIMs and IITs dont participate in B-school and Tech school rankings often. If you are not happy with the ranking then dont take part next time. Let the magazines do their business. Remember ILS was ranked above NLS in the year 2005. But, NLS didnt clamour for their ranking. So just chill.

Appalled to see that Basheer and co have gone into the merits of the systems of other colleges in admitting people. As people part of a particular set up it is in bad taste to criticize admission criteria which are not CLAT.

@101: Criticism of the SJA is necessary. The best forum is perhaps the college magazine but it seems those guys are more interested in wasting space printing childish poems (Flowers are yellow/Music is mellow and crap like that)....Valuable college funds should not be wasted on useless student committes and useless student magazines. Why can't the money be used to fund the MCS? Mooters are the ones who earn accolades for the college.

@115 : Whatever may be the best forum sir, a public forum like LI is certainly not a suitable forum. I repeat myself - u r doing ur college a gr8 disservice. You have a responsibility towards the institution that u cum from (irrespective of whether u belong to the SJA or not). As far as ur "mooters" comments go, I say ***locks - a debater / quizzer / sportsman who wins accolades for the college is equally deserving of praise.

hmmmmmmmtoo much mind blowing replies..lolzanyway let me ask 1 thing to you guysPOST COLLEGE RANKINGS AS YOU FEEL (TOP 8 ONLY), AND SEE HOW MUCH DIFFERENCES COMES HERE ITSELF..and yes dont post reasons behind the rankings..just post ranks....let me see how much unity you guys have..A NEW WAR WILL START HERE AFTER YOUR RANKINGS....

I think the best way to rank colleges is how many students pass the baer exam. that will give the true picture of student quality. I have my doubts whether more than 50% students of the NLUs, including NUJS, will be able to pass the bar exam.

Bar Exam is to test 'capabilties at a basic level' and 'to set a min. standard for admission into the practice of law'. It tests 'eligibility and not expertise'

To rank colleges on the basis of such a test will be rididculous.

A 'calibration test' too is being conducted to plot the difficulty of AIBE. One of the steps is to conduct the test in select colleges according to their 'tier rankings' so as to see how students from differently placed colleges perform.

The college selected from amongst the top-most tier is NUJS. I rest my case.

Actually the presentation does not mention 'TIER' rankings. However to any reasonable man the 'tier rankings' become clear if they have a look at this presentation.

BTW...symbiosis law college is placed at TIER 2. This shows the huge gap (not of a one or two ranks but of one complete TIER; like the difference between an international and a Ranji cricketer) between NUJS and Symbi.

Shitty magazines like india today and outlook rank symbi above NUJS. Mr. Vinod Mehta...NUJS is aobve symbi by one full TIER. Take note.

BREAKING NEWS: UGC has showcaused IIPM and it could be derecognised. However, ndia Today ranked IIPM as the fifth best B School amd better than some IIMs. IIPM has advertised a lot in India Today so this raises questions. I think Prof Basheer should approach the UGC as well. What if a student got influenced by India Today and enrolled in IIPM? His whole life could be ruined.

IIPM does have some record placements which are better than IIMs. ISB , Hyderabad till date boasts off for the highest package offered to its student, i.e., 1 crore 4 lakhs p.a. No IIM could ever manage to reach that level yet.

@ 112: Are you mentally challenged? I asked you to READ THE LETTER. It doesnt whine about NUJS's ranking. The letter is in support to the thousands of students who are uninformed about the realities and get influenced by these magazines which in turn are influenced by the money they make from advertisements.

@125: When u have something to boast about you might as well boast if you arent that modest but there are certain colleges who just have enough money to advertise. Please try and understand that! These are harsh realities and pretty obvious too.

@125: are you ****king nuts?? IIPM does not get better placements than ISB and IIM. you are exactly the kind of person stupid enough to believe india today rankings. IIPM is are a load of shit and should be closed down. arindam chowdhury is a 420 and should be jailed. there dozens of articles on the net about his fake CV and fake claims.

@ 126 - if you people are so concerned about the gulible students then why is it that in this year you people are challenging the basis of ranking ? Just because they have surpassed your rank ? Considering your statement to be true for a moment, where were you people when the same thing has happened for all these years. Or is it so that you people were not concerned about it untill you realised that your college's reputation is in jeopardy because of such detoriation in ranking ? Come on face the reality. Atleast be honest in your approach. You know what NUJS got what they deserve. Your negative attitude is the reason for your immense detoriation.

And whats the harm if a law school advertise ? Education has now become a commodity of exchange..... with the best of the faculties and infrastructure colleges are definitely standardised within 4-5 yrs. And remember 5 yrs is a pretty long time to groom yourself as a lawyer2b.

You need to brush up on your English son....and why grudge some collge that is taking such a big risk (my reading is that India Today and Outlook will never rank NUJS well after this episode) to improve ranking methodology - something into which a great deal of discussion and thot goes in in the UK and US. And will you dispute that the rankings are flawed?

Dude, it really does not matter why NUJS did not complain for 4 years, it should have, but these rankings were largely ignored by NUJS at that time. The attitude was "the market will speak for itself, we don't really need IT or Outlook to say so"! And trust me the market did speak. Ask the recruiters as to which are their preferred law schools, the answer inevitably is NLSIU, NUJS and NALSAR!

Its a good thing that NUJS has complained now, it will not only help them but also other law schools. Yes there is freedom of speech but there is also responsibility of not misguiding people. In fact I would like to see NUJS publicising this action even more.

Advertising by law schools is not per se bad/wrong, however it smells fishy if one is ranked higher because of placing those ads!

@ 135 - which market you are talking about dude ? NUJS may be a preference for recruiters but as I have mentioned in my previous comments, recruitment is not the ultimate indicator of any college. DU have produced laywers who are active in politics and are into extensive legal research on behalf of their party such as Congress and BJP. Presently, party workers (law grads) are doing good research related to Nuclear Liabilty Bill and Uniform Civil Code and lot of other issues thereby helping lawmakers to deal with it. They are getting less or no payment but are serving the community at large.

Please get this thing into your head that law schools are not made for Zia Mody and Cyril Shroff. May be for NLU grads placement is the ultimate objective, but not for the rest of the 890+ law schools in the country.

I agree with few NUJS students that it takes time to make name and fame in litigation and politics. So, come after 15 years or so and then participate in India Today ranking. Better find a magazine which will rank you based on your demand in the so called "market".

One more thing, if you ommit NRI quota candidates and SC/ST candidates then their remain a handful of quality students at NUJS.

good that nujs is taking up this matter. students shall not be misguided by such faulty rank lists. nujs, gnlu, nuals and hnlu are institutions which should figure in the top ten ranks. instead they have put institutions like symbiosis and amity....

I have respect for those who crack the exam without reservation , otherwise I have nothing against SCs/STs and I firmly believe that they should be provided with special training and coaching to take CLAT.

And also I wanna tell that those who think about symbi , amity..... blah blah... telling that they cant be in top ranks & all, I have seen the students throughout my inetrships days and now during my work....ITS UP TO YOU TO BECOME BEST, COLLEGE CANT IN LONG RUN....even national college students sucks so will it mean that college will become worst for that year?NOPE. i have also seen the best student mooter but not from national, will that mean nlsiu will loose the rank....NOPE!!so guys, forget these things and go ahead.....discuss on legal issues and all, it will help!!

Its high time now ! Kian please conduct a survey among law firm partners on how NLUs and non-NLUs perform in their internships. I remember you once discussed the difficulties in conducting such a survey but then I am sure u will find out a way. Kindly do the needful.

@136: the old generation went to DU because there no NLUs back then. look at the scene today: Montek Singh Aluwalia's son went to NLSIU, Jairam Ramesh's son went to NALSAR, Gopal Subramaniam's daughter went to NUJS.

@140: Go to any college and just compare the performance of SC/ST quota students with others. 90% of the time the SC/ST students will be at the bottom of the class. This is a sad fact and many of them have committed suicide because of failing multiple times. Deservign non-SC candidates miss out in the end.

@ 145 - Ya thats what I am saying ,..... SC/ST should be provided with adequate training and coaching facility so that they can prepare for CLAT and fair well. Because, reservation doesnt serve the purpose in the long run.

@ 144 - In that case, Arun Jaitley's son is in Amity , there are few politicians whose sons and daughters are in JGLS and other pvt law schools as well. Moreover, we all know how [...] politician's sons and daughters [...] get into NLUs :-) :-).

gyan, get your facts correct. Firstly you say that in 1995, one national law school's entrance paper got leaked. Well, in 1995 there was only National Law School, Bangalore, so obviously you mean NLSIU entrance test paper. There were no leaks in 1995 and no re-exam was held. do you have any substance to back your claim?

@ 137: As far as Outlook is concerned NUJS's rank has varied all the time and as far as India Today is concerned they have always ranked NUJS very low. So the point which you are making does not stand. Stop whining and think about the thousands of uninformed students who get persuaded by these rankings and make wrong decisions.

@115 : Whatever may be the best forum sir, a public forum like LI is certainly not a suitable forum.@ 123 & 129: U NUTS?@ 124 – Read about it, I was shocked. Aren’t we the victims of media?@ 125: U HALF NUTS? IIPM is no way better than ISB or IIM-A, B, C @ 126: 112 is mentally challenged. It is futile to explain him/her anything. @ 132 who so cynical? Did your gf elope with your best friend? (assuming that you had them at least for some time)@ 136: good research? No wonder those 2 bills have been so perfectly drafted!!! How wonderful!!!@ 144 – true & I can vouch for your statement@ Rest we Noojies want to bring the curtain down on the lies and suppression of material facts by India today & Outlook. PLEASE READ THE LETTER. NUJS is not saying to rank itself higher because it has good placements. NUJS is asking for verification of data. Its asking that data be revealed. It is challenging the methodology. Its the magazines who are rating colleges on placements. Although students are well aware of the rankings & reputations, parents often are confused and misguided by the information in these stupid magazines. It will take at least 50 years for India to come out with something similar to Prineton Review till then lets do whatever we can. I should mention here my friends from Engineering & Medical Colleges often fume about these rankings but the problem is less prevalent there due to the overall public awareness (alongwith public craze) about medical and engineering degrees. @ 45 & 62, good observation. Lol. I guess the rankings with Colleges with hottest chicks would be like GLC, Symbi, Amity, DU, GNLU, NALSAR, RGNLU, ICFAI Dehradun, ILS, Fergusson Pun & et al. With due respect to everyone & offence to none. Remember folks - beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. :-)

@ 159 - 136 here, my intention is to say that those bills are controversial bills. And, thats why party workers from both the opposition and ruling are doing legal research either in support or against those bills. The service which these young people are doing to the society are much more laudable than joining a corporate law firm. Well thats what I feel, opinions may differ though.

One more thing, you people may have written article or done moots on issues like Bhopal Gas Tragedy but these young non-greedy fellows are actually in the field and fighting against Dow Chemicals till date. Guys NUJS is no doubt recruiters' choice but the enthusiasm which these people have , you can never think of having that.

I know two people from NLU , Jodhpur getting through back door. One is presently in AMSS, Mumbai and the other is in Lakshmikumaran and Shridharan. They may have quality but the fact of the matter is that the selection criteria in NLUs are not fair till this date.

@ 161: you know about the enthusiasm of non-nlu students. What do u know about the enthusiasm of NLU students? It's pointless even telling you what all NLU students have achieved. I don't know why u have such a closed mind and u can't be open with ur thinking. I am not denying that non-nlu students have enthusiasm...but that does not in any manner mean that NLU students are worthless. In fact my experience (which is pretty wide :P ) says i have seen NLU students achieve greater heights. And dont forget the NLU's on average are just 10 years old. Wait and watch the baby!!

@ 163 - NLU students' achievement is related to winning international moots and getting foreign placements. That is brilliant. BUT think about those who visit tribal areas and fight for their rights against forest officials and powerful MNCs. That fight for right is an achievement in itself. You dont have the courage and endurance to fight govt. authorities or MNCs by implementing your legal acumen.

Remember these law grads are as young as you are (although their college may be old). So, it really doesnt matter if your college is 10 yrs old or 100 yrs. India Today have shown NUJS their place and worth.

@165 : Names sir, names? Names of ppl from Symbi / Amity / Faculty of Law Delhi / ILS (the so-called "good" non-NLU colleges)who have visited tribal areas and managed to drive away MNCs? And whether that is a good thing or not is another very debatable issue.......

@ 166 - I didnt say driving away MNCs ... but if you are polluting an area where children are born blind then its seriously a concern. Remember the coke plant issue in Kerala ? There were few law students from local colleges who were assisting their seniors in dealing with the issue (on behalf of the villagers).

I am also into corporate law but that doesnt mean I will disregard corporate social responsibility. Infact, this the era of Green Banking dude. Banks wont finance your project if they find you causing harm to the environment or the poor section of the society by showing your monetary prowess. Unfortunately, people in our nation are less right conscious compared to people in the West because of lack of education.

"I don't think that law firms in India have a national law school monopoly. In fact, it is the other way round. Law firms don't do you a favour, and they are very clear. They are here to make money and they make sure that for every penny they pay you, they earn 10 pennies.

And so invariably they end up recruiting from these premier national institutions because the average student from a premier institution is closer to the target of being a full-fledged lawyer. Not that they are more brilliant, etc., they are just closer to the target. If you look at the cross section of law firms in this country, from the big ones, to the smaller ones, a good part of those law firms also come from regional law schools, and they are as good or even better than the national law schools. The only thing is a law school product is more visible because they market themselves much better."

@ 169 - Sajan Poovayya is himself from NLSIU. His correct and humble observation shows his greatness not only as lawyer but also as a person. I advice you to show humility in the legal profession. You have a long way to go boy. The sooner you realize the better its for you.

@168 I sincerely wish you a great and successful career ahead. With the kind of arrogance and attitude that you have shown, you need to do really well in life (and by that, I don't mean just a grad certificate from NLS) to live up to this arrogance.

@164: Didn't u get it when I told you that the average age of National Law Schools is just 10 years, which means on an average it has been only 5 years since the first batch of NLU's passed out. Don't tell me Ram Jethmalani (85+), Fali Nariman (81+) Soli Sorabjee (82+), Harish Salve(60+), Abhishek Manu Singhvi (51) and the likes made their mark in 5 to 10 years.

and so what if they are grabbed up by law firms? Haven't you heard of Cyril Shroff, Shardul Shroff, Zia Mody, Jyoti Sagar and the likes?

Just like you cannot compare doctors and surgeons, similarly you cannot compare law firm lawyers (corporate) and practicing lawyers.

@ 165 and 167: I seriously do not get your point...u r talking on baseless stuff without giving proper examples. For no reason u r saying tht National law school students dont think about the poor or dont do enough social good. I can say that for NUJS this isnt the case. This very act itself is for public interest.

Wait a min...I saw from where you quoted him. After reading, I think he is full of contradictions....first he says he wanted to be a neurosurgeon since he was a kid...then he says law is in my blood ...he also talks about aligning indian law firms with foreign ones while talking about nls students not being as good as non-nls...he says "the average student from a premier institution is closer to the target of being a full-fledged lawyer. {Excuse me? what do u mean by that?}... Not that they are more brilliant {Excuse me, how can you make such a generalised statement?}, etc., they are just closer to the target. ..."....this is totally unfair and he is just treating his own class unfairly....the firms wouldnt have survived if they were recruiting trash from national law schools. Anyway...the point is that Mr. Poovayya and also #168 has missed out on the fact that its not just about marketing (which aint bad if u do it ethically) ....in total, national law schools have 1000 to 1500 students whereas every year there are about 70,000 + law students graduating from all over the country. Even if 1 % of non national law school students turn out to be brilliant (which i am sure they will turn out to be...infact there will be more than 1% non national law students who will be brilliant) ...it will amount to 50% of national law school students to be brilliant. I seriously dont see 50% of non-national law school students to be brilliant. national law schools are a class apart. the education standard is much higher than the non-national ones.

@ 175 - If you talk about education standard then JGLS have a higher standard than NLS at present (I'm neihter from JGLS nor NLS). So according to your logic JGLS students would become more talented than NLS guys after few years. Dude irespective of education standard, a student can be a great lawyer if -

i) he has will and determination;ii) gets good exposure pertaining to his area of interest ( which many non-NLS students are getting through intrnshps these days)iii) he is well-equipped with various research techniques and argumentative skills (which many non-NLS students are getting from guest faculties who come to their colleges from abroad and spend a weeks's time with the students)

NUJS is the most overrated college. it has average infrastructure and only a few good teachers. most of its students are mediocre and not very bright but they like to throw a lot of attitude as they are doing here.

grow up NUJS kids! first improve the things wrong with your college. as suggested here, your VC needs to do a lot of things.

I know this is digressing from the main topic. Talking about JGLS and its standards, JGLS issued an advertisement last week inviting applications from those who had taken the CLAT exam. This is despite JGLS has its own entrance exam based on LSAT. JGLS's justification for inviting CLAT aspirants was that not many knew about the LSAT exam and hence missed out. Stretching the same logic further, if JGLS still does not get enough applications, are they going to invite anyone and everyone to apply, irrespective of whether they wrote CLAT or not, because not everyone would have known about CLAT too? Sheer hypocricy. If you talk about having high admission standards by floating your own LSAT based entrance exam - stick to it.

@ 178 - There is nothing wrong if they advertise in the way you are saying. If you remember NUJS first batch, at that time the paper was damn easy and there were few test takers compared to what is there today. But still the first batch is the best batch as far as achievements are concerned. You know why ? Because they were the most hard working batch. So its hard work and proper guidance what is required to be a great lawyer.

@176: From where on Earth did u get this that JGLS has a higer standard of education? They cant even be counted right now, just like NLS Delhi. My point was about numbers and statistics. The point about education standard was correct as national law school standards ARE higher than non-national law schools. In any case, do go through my comment again and read the point on % and numbers.

@177: I really wonder from where you could be. One who thinks raising the voice against wrongful methodology and malpractices of national magazines and helping the uninformed is "throwing around attitude".... Thank you for your wise judgment.

Superb comment from 176. Education has not even been imparted to 3rd yr/4th yr/5th yr.....no student has yet graduated from there....and yet he has already passed the judgment that JGLS education standard is very high. How? from the reading of the course curriculum in the brochure? We need to first see the end product and can assess JGLS after its first batch joins the profession.