The missing bitcoins are irrelevant, because no one is going to buy or sell them.

An amount of bitcoins close to 5% of all bitcoins currently in existence was just wiped away as fakes. And maybe 0.000001% of all dollars in existence. Probably not even that, I suspect gox still has the majority of its customers dolars.

Quote

Its not even clear if they are missing or alreafy circulating the markets.

You really dont get it. First of all, almost certainly, no bitcoins were actually lost, they were probably stolen many years ago. But even if they did get lost, say EmptyGox lost the keys to their wallet, it doesnt matter. What matters is that bitcoin supply just shrank a whole lot now that people who had BTC balances at Gox realize their Gox BTC's were counterfeit BTC instead of the real thing. How does that directly hurt the valuation of the real thing? Again, if it turns out the US secretly sold all their gold 50 years ago and Fort Know is empty, or their gold reserve was swallowed by a sink hole, would you panic sell your physical gold?

Quote

Ppl have gotten so used to bashing fiat that u forget to calculate it in the bigger picture. U forget that bitcoin price depends on fucking fiat buying and sell it.

The gox dollars are probably safe for the most part, but even if not, they represent a very small percentage of the bitcoin economy and ~zero percent of all dollars out there. And what you seem to forget is that the price also depends on people with ACTUAL non counterfeit bitcoins. These just got a lot rarer than we thought, and those people probably a whole lot more reluctant to trust their BTCs to an exchange. Good luck replacing your counterfeit BTC with real BTC at a steep discount, you wont get mine.

If it turns out that the "lost" 800 kBTC still exist and can be spent by someone, that will definitely push the prices down.

Judging from Gox's fiat liabilities, the BTCs were mostly from an era when BTC was much cheaper than now. The hundreds of millions of $ never existed, the BTC were just sitting on Gox waiting to be sold at a much higher price.

Markets not reacting to gox bankruptcy and loss of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of customer money is not just disturbing ...

The only thing disturbing is why so many Bitcoins were parked in an exchange. It indicates that people have no clue about Bitcoin and think it is something like Ven. Looks like we got some education to do.

What you call manipulation is just people buying or selling. Why would anyone panic sell their coins just because one Bitcoin business died when 1000s are currently being build up? Why would you panic sell when another Cyprus event can hit any time, but in a much larger economy like that of France? Do you think the big banks are in any way better than MtGox? I worked at some, e.g. Deutsche Bank und UBS and I can assure you: They are every bit as incompetent as MtGox seems to have been. And they are incompetent despite the fact that they have 100s of people working there who know better.

If it turns out that the "lost" 800 kBTC still exist and can be spent by someone, that will definitely push the prices down.

Judging from Gox's fiat liabilities, the BTCs were mostly from an era when BTC was much cheaper than now. The hundreds of millions of $ never existed, the BTC were just sitting on Gox waiting to be sold at a much higher price.

I keep hearing this gox dollars don't matter and they never existed, while completely Ignoring the fact that real USD was being deposited in gox. Real USD worth hundreds of millions of dollars were deposited in gox and were creating liquidity in the bitcoin markets.

I also find it funny how ppl just say well too bad the gox clients will just have to buy their coins again at the current price. Um no, they won't fucking rebuy the coins no one will fucking rebuy coins, especially at the current rates.

This is like someone losing a ton of gold at a bank and then he's like oh OK NP let me just go buy another fucking ton , no it doesn't work that way cuz that person is depleted of money plus won't have the confidence for sometime to rebuy.

The markets will correct soon, remember there are no bailouts, which means the market can only go one way to compensate for this event.

I keep hearing this gox dollars don't matter and they never existed, while completely Ignoring the fact that real USD was being deposited in gox. Real USD worth hundreds of millions of dollars were deposited in gox and were creating liquidity in the bitcoin markets.

I also find it funny how ppl just say well too bad the gox clients will just have to buy their coins again at the current price. Um no, they won't fucking rebuy the coins no one will fucking rebuy coins, especially at the current rates.

This is like someone losing a ton of gold at a bank and then he's like oh OK NP let me just go buy another fucking ton , no it doesn't work that way cuz that person is depleted of money plus won't have the confidence for sometime to rebuy.

The markets will correct soon, remember there are no bailouts, which means the market can only go one way to compensate for this event.

The pricing in of gox's failure began all the way back in May and June, when investors could not withdraw fiat, funds were seized by DHS, and there was the lawsuit with coinlab. At that point, investors probably assumed that all their fiat was missing and that gox was insolvent, since they couldn't withdraw, and the pricing in began. This caused a crash from $130 to $66, until offline investors decided that was a good price and led a recovery. Bitstamp rapidly grew in August with the orderbook growing exponentially every day, and during the breakout in October it was well known that Bitstamp was where true liquidity interchange in U.S.D. was occuring and that gox was no longer relevant. Gox became a joke. "emptygox". Gox probably put a nice damper on the entire rally, and we might have gone higher without it.

Just recently, gox led another crash. The drop from $800 began when users started having issues withdrawing bitcoin from gox. At the moment when gox announced their malleability issue and it became official that users could neither withdraw fiat nor btc, all hope in gox became lost. Gox was now truly insolvent, as you could not withdraw ANY funds. This became especially apparent once every other exchange had fixed their malleability issue, in one day, EXCEPT gox, who was at two weeks and counting. The death spiral of prices on gox all the way to $88 was continually confirming everyone's suspicions - that kind of price action would not be happening unless something was seriously wrong. Nobody would sell their bitcoins at 15% of the real value of a bitcoin unless they were SURE gox was insolvent. So this action led a crash in prices all the way from $800 to $530 and below. When the website went down, prices crash all the way down to $400. That's a 50% loss from $800, on top of all the previous crashes gox had driven.

Prior to gox's recent bankruptcy announcement, it was about 90% certain to anyone with a brain that all of gox's customer funds had been lost, and this had already been getting priced in to the bitcoin price for nearly a year. The bankruptcy announcement simply turned a 90% certainty into a 100% certainty. Big deal... Maybe it will cause a little dip, but not a huge crash like everyone is calling for - that already happened, multiple times.

Real USD worth hundreds of millions of dollars were deposited in gox and were creating liquidity in the bitcoin markets.

No they werent. They were creating liquidity on gox, supporting a non zero price for GoxBTC which didnt exist. This isnt very different from Pirate's ponzi. In both cases people lost fortunes in BTC they thought they had, but that didnt exist. IN this case some of the victimes may also have lose dollars, but what difference does that make? Its not like those dollars are being pulled from actual bitcoin markets, if at all, they are wiped out from a non existent fake market.

II also find it funny how ppl just say well too bad the gox clients will just have to buy their coins again at the current price. Um no, they won't fucking rebuy the coins no one will fucking rebuy coins, especially at the current rates.

This is like someone losing a ton of gold at a bank and then he's like oh OK NP let me just go buy another fucking ton , no it doesn't work that way cuz that person is depleted of money plus won't have the confidence for sometime to rebuy.

The markets will correct soon, remember there are no bailouts, which means the market can only go one way to compensate for this event.

Thats it, Shout *Louder, that will convince people !

You're sounding a bit butt-hurt there. Were *you one of the ones who were silly enough to believe Mt.Gox's years worth of lies and are now hoping to recoup your losses with a market dip ?

How else would you personally know that "no, they wont fucking buy back in" ? Personal Experience/Opinion ? Or do you speak for everybody do you ? Some people will run around crying. Others *will suck up that *they got ripped by a con-man due to lack of caution and move on.

Its not Bitcoin's fault, its *theirs. Maybe next time they'll do some research before leaving Mega-$ lying around in some half-baked "Exchange" that has suffered continuous problems and repeated hacks ever since opening. Yeah, thats a good place to do business !.. Duh

Not everyone will run around shouting that "This will destroy the market !" because they were stupid.

Mt.Gox being bankrupt is not news. The markets have anticipated that for weeks now. This is why the price dropped from the 800s to where we are now in the last few weeks.

This. Buy the rumor, sell the news. The last two months' gyrations were the reaction you think ought to be happening now.

The printing press heralded the end of the Dark Ages and made the Enlightenment possible, but it took another three centuries before any country managed to put freedom of the press beyond the reach of legislators. So it may take a while before cryptocurrencies are free of the AML-NSA-KYC surveillance plague.

Stop these childish threads please. MtGox failure has been seen coming by many for more than a year now. The price dropped from 800 to 400 and then bounced which clearly shows it had an effect alright but not a devastating one. People who were not smart enough to pull out of Gox lost their money, that's life and I hope those who got stuck there have learned from this experience. Why would anyone who was not on MtGox and saw this trainwreck coming from miles away now suddenly want to dump all their coins? The market is not going to pay for the stupidity of others. MtGox is dead, Bitcoin shrugs and moves on.

I also find it funny how ppl just say well too bad the gox clients will just have to buy their coins again at the current price. Um no, they won't fucking rebuy the coins no one will fucking rebuy coins, especially at the current rates.

Some will buy again, some won't. Just telling you the reality of the situation that's all.

The missing bitcoins are irrelevant, because no one is going to buy or sell them. Its not even clear if they are missing or alreafy circulating the markets. What matters is there is hundreds of millions of fiat dollars missing these dollars matter because they r going to create the liquidity in the market that will buy ur overpriced coins. Now there is a massive chunk gone, the markets will collapse as a result to compensate.

Ppl have gotten so used to bashing fiat that u forget to calculate it in the bigger picture. U forget that bitcoin price depends on fucking fiat buying and sell it.

Liquidity goes both ways. The goxBTC was providing (illusory?) liquidity to buyers while the goxUSD was providing liquidity to sellers. Now both are gone from the market. I don't see how you can say one side of the liquidity equation matters while the other one doesn't.

I also find it funny how ppl just say well too bad the gox clients will just have to buy their coins again at the current price. Um no, they won't fucking rebuy the coins no one will fucking rebuy coins, especially at the current rates.

This is like someone losing a ton of gold at a bank and then he's like oh OK NP let me just go buy another fucking ton , no it doesn't work that way cuz that person is depleted of money plus won't have the confidence for sometime to rebuy.

It's like losing your ton of gold at a shady merchants storeroom. If you lose it, deal with it. The gold was all good, but the location pretty bad. Same goes for the coins. If you truely believe in your investment, you'll inevst another time - if you have the funds. It's not like your new investment is affected by your bad decisions in the past.. except for you chose a bank next time instead of shit