Timezone LaFontaine wrote:I'll tell you a story that I believe is appropriate in light of our speculations on the details of this whole system.

In the South, where I'm from, we have a Christmastime tradition which involves an empty pool, and a greased-up sow with a lit menthol cigarette in her mouth. The activity involves taking turns trying to catch the sow and wrassle the cigarette from her mouth -- then quickly smoke the remainder of it before she can catch you and do whatever is necessary to regain her cigarette. And let me tell you this -- a full-grown sow is not a beast to be trifled with. Getting scared and climbing out of the pool is -- how shall I say...? -- not considered to be in the Christmas spirit.

I bring this up because certain processes may seem to be opaque, inscrutable... yet within their workings is a certain elegant balance -- as elegant as can be expected, perhaps, in an imperfect world. I mean, can anything really live up to the roiling brew of expectations and sweet sentimental memories and severe wrassling-related injuries imbued in Christmastime? Now, apply the same difficult scenario to the management of Black Rock City. And before anyone asks, yes I have put in requests and no, they are not going to allow me to dig a pool into the playa surface. There are also issues around bringing a sow to BRC (which I believe I could get around, but I daren't say how publicly). The menthols shouldn't be a problem.

How about a massive and radical DO OVER! No tickets have been delivered, credit cards can be refunded. Tell the lucky burners and the scalpers they're getting their $ back, scramble around and have a ticket sale that incorporates what has been learned from this disaster.

Tickets should be non transferable. None of this blablabla about how the gate delay would tie up traffic on NV state Highway; have you noticed all that playa around? I think we could fit a few extra vehicles in there.

Janet Planet wrote:How about a massive and radical DO OVER! No tickets have been delivered, credit cards can be refunded. Tell the lucky burners and the scalpers they're getting their $ back, scramble around and have a ticket sale that incorporates what has been learned from this disaster.

Then there wouldn't be a terrific and undeniable act of faith in the "process", BMORG and the BM culture. I wish more than anything that BMORG would publish two numbers:

1) The number of tickets distributed during the lottery2) The number of rejections sent to people requesting tickets during the lottery.

It would be great if they could add a few more dimensions like tier, number of tickets requested, time request was placed, but even the raw data would really shine some light on this. Compare those numbers to the number of tickets that are being offered at places like StubHub, there could even be direct analysis concerning the aftermarket value of tickets. This is doubtful, BMORG has actually asked all of us without tickets explicitly to generate that former act of faith.

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

Perhaps a soft opening would alleviate the bunched up traffic at entry. $420 tickets are good to enter on Thurs and later. $390 tickets are good to enter Fri and later. $320 is good for Saturday morning and later. $240 is good for any time past Sunday morning. This way, you are getting more for your higher tier price.

The camp with a differenceNever mind the weatherWhen you camp with Plug & PlyYour holiday's forever

(Arrival just depends on how many different gates and staffers there are to get people in, so it's a problem that CAN be solved by throwing more resources at it. Exodus is an entirely different matter, most people hit the road and turn left. You can get about one car every 10 seconds onto the highway; so 6 cars a minute, 360 cars an hour. Seems like a lot, but if there are 20,000 vehicles, that's 55.5 hours of exodus, more than 2 days.)

(Arrival just depends on how many different gates and staffers there are to get people in, so it's a problem that CAN be solved by throwing more resources at it. Exodus is an entirely different matter, most people hit the road and turn left. You can get about one car every 10 seconds onto the highway; so 6 cars a minute, 360 cars an hour. Seems like a lot, but if there are 20,000 vehicles, that's 55.5 hours of exodus, more than 2 days.)

There are several restrictions on arrival times - as per the BLM permit. These need to be adhered to or there is no BRC. Burning Man LLC is charged per-person per day for the use of the land. Letting extra people in would increase the costs of Burning Man and probably drive up the ticket prices as well.

There is no simple way to deal with 2/3 of BRC wanting to leave at the same time. Sure, they could stagger their departure voluntarily and there would be no problem. Unfortunately, they dont.

Don't forget that locals use the highway too. Imagine how inconvenient exodus is for them.

Love Rice

Roach: "I feel like in this day and age, every girl should know how to build a flamethrower."

The operating plan ( http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/ ... 20Plan.pdf ) doesn't say much about when people can start showing up to work on camps. It says you can't show up and not work on camps or do other fun things more than 17 days before the start of the event (page 16), but that's way more time than needed.

I think the maximum per diem rate when they did have one was $4 per day; our camp would pay more than that for a few extra set-up days, I figure other people would as well.

I just keep wondering why the BMORG didn't go with a Bayreuth-type solution; surely some of those folks know about Bayreuth?

Bayreuth gets 500,000+ requests each year for 58,000 tickets. First priority always goes to people who purchased tickets last year, then to people who ordered before but didn't get in. Wait time for first-time buyers can be 5-10 years, but tickets can be freely resold so lots of folks get informally lucky. No names on the tickets or any of that.

I read somewhere that for years where a count was made, about half the Burners in any given year were there for the first time. So obviously, for whatever reason, some folks do choose not to come back. I think a Bayreuth-type solution could really work for us.

"Burning Man ruined my life as I knew it, and I have never been happier." -mgb327

I consider that to probably the best thing that happened in a Wagner opera in the past 100 years. (150 years if that's the timeline...) However, Tosca jumping off the roof of the Castle Sant'angelo and bouncing back up is not the best thing that's happened in a Puccini opera, not by a long shot...

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I saw Siegfried once. How can you manage to make a piece of art with a dragon in it so unutterably boring, I do not know. So, I simply haven't followed Bayreuth enough to judge how well its system works.

...their goal is to never change.

just sort of scares me. The idea of the burn never changing sounds like putting a stake through its heart. Like Simon, I like the idea of the burn as a chaotic. Of course, my gods, insofar as I have them, are trickster gods and the instant I start taking things for granted, I can expect them to slap me in the face. So, I am willing to sit this out, if that's the way things work out. I didn't go in 07 and I didn't go in '10 and if this is really as bad as so many think it is, then I may have had my last year at the event. Will I miss it if don't get to go this year? Yes. As much as I miss my feet? No. As much as I miss Scott? Hell, no!I realize that this is a minority opinion right now, and maybe always. But, I trust that in a big complicated universe I will find other things to inspire me, engage me, and break my fucking heart, too. So, I can't take this so very seriously...

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

yup , what stretch 80 said. ......... repeated three times and turned up to eleven.....

*dusty shrugs*

GZC

do those, who are so upset that they didn't get a ticket yet, really think that it is all about them? More than anyone else? Have we not seen this same attitude of "radical self entitlement" rear it's ugly head over the years again and again in the gate lines and exodus? Do they honestly think they know what's best on how to do things, and yet this year couldn't even act accordingly in registering for the lottery? Does it ever occur to these folkers that there are a metric f-ton of legal, logistical, and political implications on what they suggest is the best way to do things in all aspects of putting this event on? It's quite amazing that this event actually goes on every year. Maybe it's time for a whole bunch of people to attend for the first time. Maybe that's exactly what's going to happen. . . . Let one of the best social experiments of all time continue..........