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The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past eduardo 20 May, 2012 22:25

Its been reported that Ivan Gazidis told a fans forum recently that its unlikely that we will see much more of the yellow away kits, because our world wide fan base do not like it and its not a good seller. seemingly yellow kits do not sell well for most clubs, and our worldwide fanbase do not associate yellow kits with arsenal, and they much prefer the redcurrent and navy kits, and even white kits

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 20 May, 2012 23:02

But thius is what our custodians sold us to another safe custiodian for.

But seriously as an American and one of those non-English supporters I find this a betrayl of Arsenal and the people who really are Arsenal Football Club and an insult to any supporter who truly loves this club.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Padre Pio 21 May, 2012 15:24

racism should certainly be a thing of the past. I wouldnt hide being racist as being forced to be PC. You wouldnt use the N word, so why is it ok to be offensive about oriental people?

I could delete it, but I wont as most posters were offended by it. So lets avoid this kind of thing.

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past kunai16 21 May, 2012 16:37

Quote:

Padre Pioracism should certainly be a thing of the past. I wouldnt hide being racist as being forced to be PC. You wouldnt use the N word, so why is it ok to be offensive about oriental people?
I could delete it, but I wont as most posters were offended by it. So lets avoid this kind of thing.

just a heads up, oriental is a word used for furniture some Asians will be offended if were called it.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 21 May, 2012 16:47

Jeez Mr. Marketer I am both surprised and impressed by this last comment. I fully expected you to be doing a victory dance wherever you happen to be since this is exactly what you are talking about all the time aboout is simply becoming another business.

But I agree fully the yellow kits are fabulous - they're ARSENAL - and that is what should matter, and all that should matter.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 21 May, 2012 16:57

It's more than a business which is still a business as I have said. I have never said it's not a business to be clear. Just that it isn't just a business as I think most will agree. Anyway. This is the mistake...just now? Oh my.

But you are 100% right that it's a mistake and a real clanger they dropped here. But's it's only one of several the past few years u8nfortunately.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 21 May, 2012 19:40

Quite simply in the case of particularly European Sports and Football Clubs are community entities unique to their communities and part of them.

Oddly enough Arsenal is one of the very few exceptions historically to that axiom, but at this point no one would dispute that is a prt of Highbury and Islington and that is a major factor in the relationship between the Club and its supporters.

All you need do is look at the number of Professional (Football League) and semi-professional (Conference) teams located in Metroplitan London. There are fourteen professional and several semi-professional clubs in London alone. Contrast that with the fact that there have never been more than three manjor League baseball teams in any American Metroplitan area, and now there is no American city with more than two teams.

One can argue that some of these fourteen sides are "minor league" relatively speaking but right now, five of those teams played in the Premier League this year and six of them will play in it next year, and three more have played in the Premier League since 1992 and eleven of those sides have played in the Premier League or First Division.

That points out that European Football especially in England is not governed solely by pure tradtional business models as you suggest. The nature and number of sides proves that, as well as the differing ownerships models in practice across Europe and even to an extent in England.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Rockstaar 21 May, 2012 21:54

don't understand what you are saying...I don't see why the comparison with a country that is as big as say one state having more teams in a smaller concentrated area..if England was as big as the US..it would be totally different

I think what you have a problem with is that just because its business does mean that it runs like a supermarket for instance

The sports business is a category all to itself and they are all marketed very similar..to prey on our emotions, sense of pride, competition etc

The people that live in Cleveland think the Claviers are their basketball team just as much as anyone supporting a football team in Europe as was evident when Lebron James took his talents to Miami

The fact that a business can get people saying us and we even though they have no stake in it is one of the greatest tricks the devil ever pulled (kaiser soze)

I really don't know who anyone can disagree with the facts.

They are registered as a business
They follow ALL business laws pertaining to their field
They have employees
They have a payroll
They are about making profit
They is a board (in certain cases)
etc

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 21 May, 2012 22:14

That is just ass-backwards logic. If the country was bigger and had more people and more cities there would be fewer teams?

See this is what you are missing Rocket J Squirrel. If you can only three teams or now two teams in a large metropolis who do you explain that London alone has 14 teams? How do you explain all the Midlands Clubs all 10-20 miles apart? On Average most major league teams are hundreds and even thousands of miles aprt.

I went down and Saw the Reds play the Mets and Yankees in an inter league matchup this week a couple of days and that was the first time in five decades the Reds played more than four games in New York city in a single trip and the first time over the same length of time they played two different New York teams in New York the same week.

Face it English and European Football Clubs are not the same as American Sports franchises. Period. Not yet anyway. Whehter they ever will be is uncertain.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Mad Jens 21 May, 2012 23:30

Haha you come up with the corniest stuff man, cheers.

Quote:

Got a lot of time for those yellow away kits. Though this seasons blue one has grown on me too.

Ya the blue one has grown on me as well - at the end of the day I think most kits do grow on people. Unless they start dressing us up in bright Green (82-83, anyone?) or Hi-liter colors I'd probably be ok.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 22 May, 2012 01:49

I'm taking a break from office space for this.

It's not that they have to be that congested - its that they choose to be and still succeed and thrive.

The point is all these places want their own clubs even if there are several other clubs within a few miles of their clubs location in any direction.

There is no better example of the difference than Hartford Connecticut where I live to Illustrate the difference here.

In the 1980's we had our own NHL Franchise the Hartford Whalers. But the franchse couldn't last here ultimately because while the community eagerly welcomed the team and supported for several years the rerality was it was in amrket where most traditional hocky fans already had alliegances to established teams Like The Boston Bruins(102 Miles away), the New York Rangers(120 miles away), the New York Islanders (132 miles away) and the New Jersey Devils 126 miles away.

The Hartford Whalers couldn't build a sufficient-sized fan base to keep the team in Hartford despite not having a single team located closer than 100 miles to Metroplitan Hartford and only four teams within 150 miles in any direction.

In U.S. sports you create a team and build a market. That is why teams can leave locations and go to other cities and start over with relative success and frequency.

European football Clubs were built by the market then became businesses after that. European football Clubs are like traditional local family business rather than large multinational corprations and that interpersonal relationship between in this case the community and the Club is the major and defining difference.

There's an Arsenal Fish Bar in Highbury. I doubt there's gonna be a Halliburton Fish Bar near their new Headquarters in Dubai. There's the Gunners's Pub in Highbury across from the Arsenal Tavern in Highbury. Call it a hunch but I don't think there's an Unregulated Investors pub across from the J.P. Morgan Tavern Jamie Dimon can choose to walk over to before heading home. There was concern all up up and down the BlackStock Road because Arsenal was moving to a new stadium five minutes away by footfrom the old one .

Just because you and Stan Kroenke and maybe even the late Dan Fiszman want to think Arsenal Football Club is no different than RJR/Nabisco or whatever it might be called now doesn't make it so.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Rockstaar 22 May, 2012 13:24

Radio its different...the US is made up of everyone's else's nationality..England is the size of ONE state ffs..you have more sports to compete with..Hockey, Football, Basketball, Baseball, Golf, Tennis and a ton of other factors

if everyone in Florida is interested in Football, it doesn't mean you will experience the same interest in Wyoming

so yes its different and like I said I don't understand why you are bringing it up

Professional Sports business is nothing like a local shop its more like the big Supermarket...in New York, you can't get a NY Jets season ticket regardless of league position...people hand those tickets down generation to generation, they love the Jets same as any Arsenal supporter does

Sports business is sports business like I have already explained in previous posts and it runs like a sports business is supposed to

its just like the music business..fans have all these dreams and ideas of what its like to be a superstar and they only get the reality check once they ACTUALLY get in the business and see all the inner workings of producing and marketing a professional product

just because you feel connected to the product doesn't make it less of a business or something different

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Padre Pio 22 May, 2012 15:14

Quote:

BIGSNOOPi don't think theres another football club on earth in which its (traditional) away kit has played such an important part of their history.
FA Cup 71 - the double
FA Cup 79
Anfield 89
The 1-0 win at old trafford in 98
Old trafford 02

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 22 May, 2012 15:41

Rock Facing as you said above earlier you" honestly just don't get it" and that is ther truest, most accurate and most intellgent thing you have even said - you just don't get it, and your ego won't let you accept that(and you're the one who posts about your ego all the time so it's fair game).

Here's a nice simple question that might help you get it.
Could Liverpool FC move to Manchester? or better still to Leeda or Sheffield and still be able retain its original fan base and expand its fanbase to new supporters in those communities?

Maybe when you figure out the answer to that one maybe then you'll get it. Though I'm not betting on it honestly. You are locked into the view that everyone is a market and everything is a commodity and that is the extent of human existence by the looks of it. Just because you can only conclude or believe that doesn't make it so.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Rockstaar 22 May, 2012 16:26

You mean like how Arsenal moved to North London? I explained to you that the size of England would make it difficult but nothing is impossible

I'm sure if Man City moved to London and they put in the same amount of money and started winning everything...they would get local supporters and well as maintain a foreign fan base...I hear people talking about Man City and they have no idea that they are in the same city as United

Teams move in the States all the time and it doesn't always work either so don't get your point

Quote:

You are locked into the view that everyone is a market and everything is a commodity and that is the extent of human existence by the looks of it.

What I am getting at is that Arsenal FC is run by men who are running business plain and simple...I am talking about the professional sports business...nothing else (stay on subject)

I'm talking about you acting like just because you support Arsenal FC..its somehow yours

lets see if Arsenal FC isn't a 'just' a business...you personally stop supporting them and lets see if it stops running because you decided to stop supporting them

it won't because its their business to know that they have people can easily replace you and those who will NEVER give up their season tickets and will NEVER stop supporting them regardless...that is the sports business

no different in that sense than any other business that uses peoples emotions

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 22 May, 2012 17:50

Quote:

RockstaarYou mean like how Arsenal moved to North London? I explained to you that the size of England would make it difficult but nothing is impossible

OH dearie you should have stopped right there because you gave up any credibility you have really.

One major club moving across town In its city of origin in a full century proves any club can just move anywhere anything with no negative impact? That might be the single least credible statement you have ever made.

In the NFL - TEN of its current thirty two teams play in cities where they did not originate playing. And that isn't counting several old AFL teams movement before joining the NFL. And multiple franchises have moved at least twice amd the Cardinals have moved three times, and it is quite possible Stan Kroenke's Rams will move cities a third time.

In the NBA - FOURTEEN of its thirty franchises play in a city other than where they originated, and again this is not counting former ABA franchise moves before joining the NBA

In the NHL - TEN of its thirty franchises are playing in cities other than where they origniated

IN MLB - TEN of its thirty franchises play in cities other than were they originated, and the Athletics have played in four different cities across the country

Also worth noting - there are two teams that can be called the Cleveland Browns in the NFL. In the NBA there are two franchises that originated in San Diego and failed there. In MLB there are two different teams who used to be the Washington Senators. And in the NHL two teams who used to be the Winnipeg Jets.

And then there is this in the NHL - the San Jose Sharks began as the California Golden Seals became the Cleveland barons who were absorbed by the Minnesota North Stars (now Dallas Stars) then they were split from the Stars to form the Sharks. And that all happened in 15 years.Any questions?

But One team moving a cross the same city they were formed and a second smaller side doing the same thing a century later are proof that its no differen in English Football.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Rockstaar 22 May, 2012 19:12

we agree its different as I stated couple posts ago..we simply disagree on why its different

I said in that very same quote that it would be difficult but not impossible then gave you a scenario that I believe it could happen

Also in England football is the most dominant sport with nothing even close to it...whereas it not like that in the States

but why are we even talking about this since it has nothing to do with whether a club is a business and just because a person is emotionally attached to it, that somehow makes it not just a business even though every other sports franchise enjoys this exact same luxury as part of the business

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 22 May, 2012 19:32

Nice try etch-a-sketch.

How does football being the dominant sport stop football clubs moving? There is no truly dominant sport in America though there is a clear hierachy with Pro Football atop it and a shifting level just below shared by Basketball and Baseball, followed by Hockey and then other team sports behind that. But teams move regularly by comparison to any other region of sport frequently even regardless of the sport.

Face it you the mighty Rockstarr herald of the Free Market in sport is wrong in this case and not just this one for that matter.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past RadioFreeArsenal 22 May, 2012 23:16

Rocky Mount if I didn't know better I'd say I was arguing with myself except I don't stubborly cling to something even after the evidence clearly disproves it.

You're wrong. It happens to all of us. I would love it if I could claim to be an exception but you know what I'm not. I am wrong too on occasion in fact many occasions and when I know I am wrong I will back down if not admit being wrong. you'll live.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past jlee 22 May, 2012 23:30

Rockstaar, i see where you are coming from and partly agree with you, but that's because I too am coming from a US perspective.

The better analogy when trying to look at Football clubs in Europe vs US Sports is to look at American college sports. They too are a business (albeit one that doesn't play its players), and the bonds to the cities and regions dictate most of the fanbase and how they can market the teams. Yes Duke basketball might have fans over the US and perhaps even around the world, but they are limited by being a North Carolina team.

That said, we see how the 'loyalty' to tradition and location can be a financial and business road block for many clubs. Regardless of the business sense it makes for Liverpool/Everton to have a stadium share, there is almost zero appetite from their fan base. Milan/Inter do just fine, but its just not in the cards for the scousers because they cannot imagine not having seperate grounds, or even grounds outside of their current stadiums.

Re: The Yellow Away Kit may be a thing of the past Rockstaar 22 May, 2012 23:51

Europe or US makes no difference to my point which is that professional sports is and has always been a business and that they aren't really too different that most businesses

its like the music business..fans may not want to support their artists making music in other genres...or may like live musicians vs digital beatmakers or may follow artists their entire career around the world etc

none of that changes that behind the scenes is a business being run that at the end of the day needs to make profit

and it doesn't change the fact that the people running the business understand their customer base and market correctly to that customer base

nor does it change that fact that the sports business can make a man that has no job and can't take care of his family spend his days and nights worrying about a player that makes more than he can in a year in one week

and it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that people act as though this business is theirs WITHOUT any value to them whatsoever

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