Well,having seen IM3,I'm gonna have to stick to my guns that S-M 3 is still the best 3rd film.

I like Spider-Man 3 the movie, I think it's the most fun of all the 4 movies, and understand people who think it's average-mediocre (as a whole), but not the ones who think it's bad
TDKR is easily better than Spider-Man 3 tbh

Quote:

I don't really have a big problem with X3.Never really got the hate for that film.

I loved it since first view, my only issue with it the first time was the climax battle felt underwhelming, now I got over that problem
Never saw what makes it a bad movie

When you compare TDKR & Iron Man 3,I'd say the only real advantage TDKR has is in the Villain.I'd take Bane over Killian.But,both have the same problems:Hero out of costume for 75% of the film,leading lady dispatching the main baddie,Hero hanging it up at the end.I think Iron Man 3 wins in the "one night stand" category,though.You can kinda expect that from "pre-cave" Tony,but the Bruce/Talia hook up came clear out of left field in TDKR.

Talia was also meant to be a dark-mirrored version of Rachel, as it was supposed to be evident when she picked up the picture of Rachel and when Bruce took the picture and moved it away, Talia went in and tried to get his mind away from her by sleeping with him. Getting him in that "state", and Alfred being gone...she tried to get him to also leave with her to, I suspect, the Pit. Bane breaking the Bat and taking him to the Pit himself was Plan B.

When you compare TDKR & Iron Man 3,I'd say the only real advantage TDKR has is in the Villain.I'd take Bane over Killian.But,both have the same problems:Hero out of costume for 75% of the film,leading lady dispatching the main baddie,Hero hanging it up at the end.I think Iron Man 3 wins in the "one night stand" category,though.You can kinda expect that from "pre-cave" Tony,but the Bruce/Talia hook up came clear out of left field in TDKR.

I dont know, I think TDKR was much more ambitious and its emotional beats and ending were much better handled. After the final battle of IM3, which was superior to the one in TDKR I will add, IM3 just sort of rushes to the end, were as TDKR ends perfectly, taking us through about 5 different emotions and giving us a truly satisfying ending.

IM3 just rushes through once the final battle was over, and it didnt take enough risks for me, TDKR took a good few and they mostly paid off.

I dont know, I think TDKR was much more ambitious and its emotional beats and ending were much better handled. After the final battle of IM3, which was superior to the one in TDKR I will add, IM3 just sort of rushes to the end, were as TDKR ends perfectly, taking us through about 5 different emotions and giving us a truly satisfying ending.

IM3 just rushes through once the final battle was over, and it didnt take enough risks for me, TDKR took a good few and they mostly paid off.

I don't think a movie can be given a nod for being ambitious alone, the ambition has to be realized. This was one of the common criticisms I recall about the film, that in scope and ambition it aimed high, but didn't quite make its mark. In the case of TDKR, I agree with the review suggesting that the movie was 'grandiose, not grand.' The scope and mood of the film were astonishingly high, but both the way the events played out and how they were presented were shallow and underwhelming for me.

I prefer IM3, but I will say that both movies had terrible, gift-wrapped epilogues. I just think that's bad story telling. In the case of both movies, the epilogues seemed like force-fed conclusions whose purpose was more to give the audience closure rather than the story and characters. A narrative should be constructed so that the ending flows well with the rest of the film...what happened in both of these movies seemed pulled out of a hat.

I don't think a movie can be given a nod for being ambitious alone, the ambition has to be realized. This was one of the common criticisms I recall about the film, that in scope and ambition it aimed high, but didn't quite make its mark. In the case of TDKR, I agree with the review suggesting that the movie was 'grandiose, not grand.' The scope and mood of the film were astonishingly high, but both the way the events played out and how they were presented were shallow and underwhelming for me.

I prefer IM3, but I will say that both movies had terrible, gift-wrapped epilogues. I just think that's bad story telling. In the case of both movies, the epilogues seemed like force-fed conclusions whose purpose was more to give the audience closure rather than the story and characters. A narrative should be constructed so that the ending flows well with the rest of the film...what happened in both of these movies seemed pulled out of a hat.

I would have to disagree abut TKDR's epilogue, I thought it was brilliant, and ended this particular trilogy brilliantly, the last 5 mins of the movie I just have my jaw open the entire time, and that last scene and the way it closes, brilliant. It was a bit rushed, I'll give you that, but IM3's was very rushed, too rushed in face, especially him getting the arc reactor removed. That needed a bit more explanation. Even a simply sentence saying that the technology to do wasnt available until now, would have helped a lot. I mean why didnt he just get it removed in IM2 when it was killing him? It confused things in the franchise a bit for me, and it being rushed didnt help.

I also thought TDKR realised a lot of its ambitions, it brought the hero down to a level we hadnt previously seen him, making his triumph all the greater, and there are plenty others it did well also, some were done poorly mind. I just think its a fault of all Marvel Studio's movies so far, that they play it a little too safe, after the success of The Avengers, you would think they would take a few more risks, yet they only took one here, and it didnt really pay off, quite the opposite with a lot of fans in fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

I love the TDKR epilogue and thought the IM3 one was decent. It just felt a little rushed to me.

Agree with everything here, IM3 just needed a few extra mins at the end for me, just to explain things a little better. The TDKR ending still amazes me to this day, in fact for me it largely saves the 3rd act of the movie.

I would have to disagree abut TKDR's epilogue, I thought it was brilliant, and ended this particular trilogy brilliantly, the last 5 mins of the movie I just have my jaw open the entire time, and that last scene and the way it closes, brilliant.

I thought it was a bit self-indulgent myself, but hey, different strokes for different folks. It disrupted the flow of the movie for me, and Bruce being alive at the end with Selina seemed like nonsensical fan service(not to mention making zero sense), as well as trivializing both his sacrifice and his suffering. For one thing, the 'romance', if it can be called that, with her was nonexistent, so not only did he have no business being with her at the end, but it was inconsistent with his character IMO. Bruce was foolish with her from the get-go, constantly trusting her when she gave him more reasons not to than otherwise. This bit painfully reminded me of TASM, in the sense that Pete & Gwen's relationship was executed in a similarly careless manner, and the promise bit at the end had the same affect as Bruce surviving - negating the impact of the sacrifice.

John Blake's arc? A fairly worthless character with no development, but rather an implied character depth, that seemed shoehorned into the film. His conclusion was just as hollow, with yet another casually addressed bit of fan service that neither fit with the film or was consistent with the people involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

It was a bit rushed, I'll give you that, but IM3's was very rushed, too rushed in face, especially him getting the arc reactor removed. That needed a bit more explanation. Even a simply sentence saying that the technology to do wasnt available until now, would have helped a lot. I mean why didnt he just get it removed in IM2 when it was killing him? It confused things in the franchise a bit for me, and it being rushed didnt help.

Agree on all counts. With regard to the bolded quote, this may have been addressed in the Chinese cut, as there was about 5 minutes of exposition between Dr. Wu & Fan Bingbing's characters prior to Tony's surgery; however, I don't speak Mandarin and won't be here long enough to attempt it, so it was lost on me. Either way, I think that was meant for the audience to infer, but I still think it undermined what Tony had been through in a way. Makes me think back to what he said to Banner in Avengers, and how that no longer has any meaning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

I also thought TDKR realised a lot of its ambitions, it brought the hero down to a level we hadnt previously seen him

I didn't see it that way, personally. Bruce didn't go through much that he hadn't before(or worse), and the issue I have with this film is that he didn't have any sort of personal stake(everyone close to him was either dead or gone) in what was going on outside of "I have to save my city." That's all fine and dandy, but that's been done better before in each of the previous films. Bane even felt like little more than a plot device to take Batman out of the picture while Gotham was in a state of anarchy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

its a fault of all Marvel Studio's movies so far, that they play it a little too safe...

I agree. Phase 2 seems to be attemping to buck that trend, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

yet they only took one here, and it didnt really pay off, quite the opposite with a lot of fans in fact.

I think they took a few with IM3, with Pepper, Tony's PTSD, his lack of reliance on the armors, and of course the now infamous twist. Again, different strokes for different folks, but IMO they were all done effectively. The biggest offender in the film for me was the half-hearted epilogue.

Cinematography: Wally Pfister in a land side. 'Rises' looks beautiful. Its a wonder to watch from that standpoint alone. Especially with the IMAX. Yum. 'Iron Man 3' isn't bad, but its nothing different than the standard blockbuster film from a cinematography point of view.
Point:THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

Editing: From a sound mixing/editing standpoint, both films are great. Editing is something you shouldn't really notice. When someone asks 'who edited that?" thats normally a bad sign. We notice editing when its jarring and, well, bad. Neither film tried anything special with the editing, just a solid job.
POINT: Toss Up.

Special Effects: Another near toss up, but I'll give the nod to 'Iron Man 3' simply because more effects were needed and they looked great.
POINT: IRON MAN 3

Screenplay: Shane Black is great with witty dialogue and typically good with juggling tones. Jonathan Nolan is great with villainous monologues and escalating the story. Both films have pacing issues, mostly due to the stories themselves. However, Nolan knows this and opens with an action scene with Bane, then gives a small action scene with Blake and Selina before we eventually see Batman an hour in. Black on the other hand, gives us mostly nothing but backstory until we see Iron Man in action about an hour in when his house is attacked. Right after the attack, Black slows back down in Tenn. However, once Batman is back, Nolan picks up the pace a tad, leading soon to Bane and Batman's first encounter and even when he has his hero MIA for sometime, he continues the escalation with the Football scene, Blake racing to the hospital, riot montage and Bane's speech. Nolan gives us some quiet, subtle emotional scenes with Bruce in the beginning as a hermit, his quarrels with Alfred and in Bane's jail. Black gives Tony a few scenes of panic attacks due to PDSD, however he never really develops it. Tony is never MIA, but most of his gadgets are. Both characters come back in full hero form for a strong climax. Iron Man has an interesting villain twist, but the villain himself isn't very unique. Nolan continues to show his strength in writing villains and Tom Hardy adds a strong performance to give Batman a solid villain in Bane. Overall, The Dark Knight Rises aims higher and while it doesn't quite hit where it wanted to, it was still higher than Iron Man 3, which aside from one big twist, yet again played it safe.
Point:THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

CAST:
Hero- Both RDJ and Bale are phenomenal actors. Bale gets a meatier character due to a more dramatic and better written story and part. RDJ gets a more enjoyable performance due to a more light-hearted, joke oriented story. I know RDJ as Iron Man is iconic, but I can't pick one over the other.
POINT: TOSS UP

Villain- Guy Pearce isn't bad by any means, but Hardy's Bane is just flat out better. A better written character and better performance.
POINT: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

Love Interest- Pepper is about a hundred times better than Tate/Talia who is just awful.
POINT: IRON MAN 3

Side Kick- Rhodey is pretty cool in IM3 and Cheadle does well with what he was given, but once again Anne Hathaway had a better written part to work with, which made it easier for her to give a better performance.
POINT: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

The rest: 'Rises' has way more characters than 'IM3', but the combination of guys like Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, Joseph Gordon Levitt and even Matthew Modine is easily superior than the rest of the cast of 'IM3', which has a really strong cast. Ben Kingsley in a strange roll gives probably the best performance of the two films, but 'Rises' cast is just more consistent overall.
POINT:THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

OVERALL: 'Rises' gets 6/10 of the categories, 'IM3' gets 2/10 and two toss ups. Overall, 'Rises' simply had a better cast and crew overall, better overall story and aimed much higher. While it didn't reach its personal potential, the level it did reach is still higher to 'IM3', which again, aside from one huge twist, simply played it too safe.OVERALL: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

__________________"If you figure a way to live without serving a master, any master, then let the rest of us know, will you? For you'd be the first person in the history of the world."
-LANCASTER DODD

I hated IM3 so I enjoyed SM3 more I couldn't care less who disagrees with that opinion I wasn't seething after SM3.

For me TDKR is the best 3rd superhero movie because it is the most competently made were as most 3rd superhero movies are a jumbled mess. They are so concerned with topping their (often) excellent second movie they throw everything into the movie and forget about simply telling a good story.

So this is my list based on how much I was entertained because often these 3rd movies are too awful to be truly 'enjoyed'. I'll include a score for context