I have a 1366-based 920 with the idea that I one day might buy a better CPU for the motherboard. Turns out that I never will since new sockets come to market so fast and I would be crazy to not upgrade to new platform.

So more energy efficient, higher performance, lower price and all i have to give up is changeability? Shut up and take my money!

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Looks like you bought into the wrong socket. I bought into lga775, and enjoyed a nice upgrade path as long as it lasted. Perhaps 1155 will have a good run too. On the AMD side it was even better, with the + scheme of sockets making the upgrade paths available for even longer.
But to be honest, it is not that easy to guess early on which socket will be here to stay for a while, and which will be discarded in six months. Intel in particular has a pretty bad track record recently.

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Not exactly a correct list of dates, and it lists high end and consumer platforms on the same list, which is misleading. That said, a compatible socked doesn't mean CPU compatibility. A lot of boards didn't get a BIOS update to support newer CPU's, or the chipset itself was too old to support new ones.

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I have reported this multiaccount troll "linuxlowdown". Lets hope they do something about it.
Anton on your other article: "AMD Readies Another Round of Reorganization, Lay-Offs". Its obvious that "linuxlowdown" has multiple accounts. Go and have a look what i have writen there. Do something about this troll.

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Quote@exodeus "...all I have to give up is changeability? Shut up and take my money!"

then I'll call if for what it is... nonsense in the field of Intel stooge spin.

As you know, your multiple headed troll buddy j7 (formally jmlxg) who supports your biased view points has multiple accounts here and on other tech websites. I've seen some of the guys here carry on the battle with him on those sites.
But you're not too worried about his rigging of the system when it supports your Intel promoting activities here on Xbit, are you? Go hide under a bridge troll and don't come out.

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@j7 - I would hate to think what you are.... oh a professional Intel troll with your signature "DIE AMD DIE!!! AHAHAHAHA". You are well know for your multiple accounts here and activities on other sites.

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Talk about yourslef.
Don't try to distract by talking about others.
You have multiple accounts here on xbitlabs.
You are a multi headed Troll here on xbitlabs.
I only care about getting this site clean from multiaccount trolls like you. I have proven this with my post above.
Now its up to xbitlabs to take care of this and i am surprised as to why they haven't taken care of you already.

Edit: Don't try to hide yourself "linuxlowdown" with one less downvote or upvote. You have one more account, common don't be shy.

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Could you name these so called multiple accounts please? As you should REALISE, I only write in British English. You say Toe-may-toe, I say Toe-mar-toe. There are not too many people here who use this English.

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Still waiting for you to name my multiple accounts. An accusation stays at that without evidence. But I can demonstrate that you are a two headed troll - your other head is j7. He is a little less nasty and a bit thicker but nonetheless sustained by a common heart of hate for AMD.

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There 3 obvious problems with this approach.

1) Managing the costs of failed components/RMA logistics. If your motherboard fails, your CPU is worthless. Right now if you buy a $325 i7-3770K and a $150 motherboard, if your motherboard fails, you can send it for repairs/RMA or just get a new one and you still have a working $325 chip. And if your chip fails, your motherboard is worthless. And in each case how does RMA and warranty get handled?

2) Chip-Motherboard inventory allocation to meet consumer demand becomes extremely difficult to manage. How do motherboard makers allocate chips with motherboards? Do high end chips go with high-end motherboards? If so how many i5 chips do you solder to $200 motherboards vs. i7 chips? Will there be an option to buy a $100 motherboard with a Core i7? Some people don't need features of a $200-300 motherboard but would rather spend that $ on an i7 because they might benefit from hyper-threading. This would be a nightmare to manage. This gets worse when you think of how many motherboard SKUs companies have.

3) Increased costs. Intel would have to ship its chips to each motherboard AIB and they would have to solder these chips onto their motherboards. That means additional transportation/handling and manufacturing costs that will be passed on to consumers.

Sounds like a BS rumor or misinterpreted. This could work for laptops but I can't see how this can work for desktops. I can definitely see Intel doing this for pre-built OEM systems and so on but not for the enthusiast PC market. We'll have some option of stand-alone CPUs on the desktop.

EDIT: This article is mistranslated.

This article says:

-- Intel will not provide new products for Desktop and non-BGA laptop segments in Broadwell era
-- Instead, they will provide higher clocked Haswell for those segments in 2014
-- Broadwell is "more than tick", and it will include some technologies that were previously planned for Skylake
-- This is because Intel needs to be more competitive in the tablet market, and this may mean the end of Tick-Tock strategy
-- It mentions nothing about Skylake and later or if they will be LGA or not for the desktop

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I think Intel will push 10W Haswell chips into BGA laptops in order to better compete with tablets. That design will would work better with BGA since such laptops are very thin and consumers who buy them are willing to forego upgrades for thin form factor and battery life (i.e., MacBook Air).

I think Intel needs to prioritize power consumptions for smartphones/tablets and thin laptops but this is a separate market from high-end desktops that will still have Haswell chips up to at least 95W on Socket 1150.

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Agreed. I skipped IVB entirely. Haswell should use the more expensive solder of SB and benefit from a more mature 22nm node compared to IVB. 5.0ghz+ should be doable + 10% increase in IPC in legacy code and much more in modern code with AVX2 instructions. Excel (Monte Carlo simulation) should benefit tremendously from the Random Number Generator function. Looking forward to next summer.

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2.

Although I made many upgrades to various desktops in the last 15 years I hadn't upgrade processors for 10 or more years. The problem I see with not interchangeable processors is that it will be more difficult to find the motherboard/processor combo you want as it is expensive for the motherboard vendor to keep a varied stock.

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I agree with you about the potential problem. I don't think the idea of a soldiered CPU on motherboards can work well, unless the available range of CPU's becomes extremely small (one low end, one mid range, one high end, for example).

Therefore I assume that manufacturers will find a solution in the form of an add-in board for the CPU.

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4.

How about this headline:- "Has{not ended}well For Intel Fanboys". Enthusiasts who want to tinker, swap and overclock components, they will go over to AMDs FM2 platform with Steamroller in 2014. To be fair to Intel, it is a minute market now but they are sure to upset some dyed blue in the wool Intel fans..... calling all Intel trolls - I invite you to put a positive spin on it.

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Intel's giving up in the high end desktop segment and AMD will reign supreme. Intel fanboys weep. Intel's giving up on big cores. Get ready to buy your FX CPU in 2015 (there, now you know how it feels in this rapidly changing landscape. Are the trolls gonna call Otellini a ****** idiot, as they did Rory Read, for making difficult decisions? No they're sucking it up, spinning it and backpedaling on their views relating to AMD's strategy that Intel is clearly following close behind).

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You must be kidding. I'm long AMD 10,000 shares, so I believe in the company, but your suggestion is pure nonsense.

Intel has enormous capacity, and is actually not using it all, so why would they be afraid of making bigger chips? Why?

Going to BGA is a move to cater to the mainstream, and also to force enthusiasts to buy their higher-end chips that will allow upgrades.

Intel makes a lot of money in servers, and LGA 2011, et al, are just server processor derivatives. They aren't giving them up.

In fact, AMD has given up the high-end market, which is fine. They can't win it, so don't bother. Piledriver is a mediocre chip, which at least gives them some hope, unlike BD. NVIDIA is eating deeply into their market share as well.

AMD's best hope in 2013 is the Jaguar platform. Atom blows, and Jaguar will be powerful enough for the vast majority of people, and be low enough power to at least compete for a section of the tablet market. I expect it to be a very successful chip, based on what's been said about it.

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And I do the upgrades after the prices come down a lot. People think that just because something new is out then you can't or shouldn't upgrade your existing platform. This is not true because it becomes very inexpensive to upgrade your processor after they have introduced something new. And When you make a big enough of a jump, then the performance gains a actually quite high. Both the upgrades I mentioned gave me much better performance and on the laptop it only cost me 40 dollars. I have also had to replace motherboards more times than I can count. You give a very poor argument for why it's OK to solder the CPU onto the main board.

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1. Intel will keep Haswell for desktops for 2 years, 2013 & 2014, instead of 1 year.
2. Intel Haswell is the last desktop chip.
3. Everything is going mobile.
4. Most motherboard makers will die. Only Intel will make the Socs.
5. 47W is in the territory of older laptop chips.

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8.

I've speculated in the past that future desktops will use either mobile or server CPU's. People are trying to deny the death of the desktop, and I think they're right in that it won't die completely, but this is certainly one step towards marginalising that market further.

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I agree that in the short run there will HTPC's and all-in-ones. There will even be desktops like we know them. But I still think these will be marginalised with time, as the mobile devices we carry with us will become more and more powerful. Why buy a desktop PC if your phone just hooks wirelessly to your monitor and keyboard when you're near your desk?

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No its a great idea. AMD doesn't know what its missing. DIE AMD DIE AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!AMD Trinity A8 nettop will be released in December I think it the Sapphire Edge VS 8 sounds interesting if it uses around or less than 25 watts at full load.

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i up voted you anyway exodeus as what you say OC is mostly true when fully fledged middle/high end x86 SOC is the new PC, remember though even today many motherboard's and standard carrier/daughter boards have lot of auxiliary components that fail well before the CPU/SOC, ram etc would.

a very common generic PCB fault being capacitors and most people wouldn't even know where to start looking, im using a board right now with failing capacitors and cant be bothered to replace them right now, most people would just get a new one transplant the other components, and bin the old MB.

so if they were really switching their lines to wholesale x86 CPU/SOC soldered "appliance" form of manufacturer, then you and your box shifting local PC shop are in trouble, not that i believe they will totally switch, its mostly investor hype as far as i can see.

although you could given a hard look at all the overall actions in the x86 markets over the last 24 months never mind the last Q3 make a case that all the end user x86 vendor OEM's are fed up (cant/wont make/stock what you want to buy) and moving to company to company contracts only/and/or to ARM, and the hyena pack investors don't seem to help matters here as per this report as they want their Holiday season bonuses as always.

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It's going to be the same, right now you are shopping for the right mobo with the chipset you want, after few years you will still be shopping for the right mobo, but with the right processor you want.

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"As personal computers become smaller, their flexibility is decreasing. According to a media report..."

that sounds just like the many dinosaur comments coming from a financial adviser report with all their assets stuck in the mainframe days of old, or in this case old school under/desktops.

its totally not true that just because you can shrink an old mainframe or current desktop down to a mobile phone size today means you loose some kind of unstated flexibility.

case in Point as a potential option existing prototypes today, stick lot's of many core ARM A15/A8 or even BGA packaged x86 on a massive racked sled carrier module for mainframe use, or a generic 16 core carrying sled modules in a new desktop PC case.

need more power, don't throw away the PC, unplug the dual core SOC on SODIMM module and simply replace it with the latest quad core version...turn the power back on and go twice as fast, and thats good for everyone including the end users and new OEM's that provide these flexible options.

wheres the decreasing flexibility there, answer: nowhere, in fact the last generic standard SOC on SODIMM module option gives you infinitely more flexibility at a cheaper long term price.

"Starting from Broadwell chips, which are due in 2014, all mainstream desktop processors will be available in BGA packaging, which means that they will have to be soldered"

that "will have to be soldered" is a wild guess on their part given there are plenty of tiny cheap http://www.plastronics.co...ducts/catalog/bga-sockets even today, its the lower total BOM cost choices made by accountant's in small appliances that restrict their larger use not the availability.

you and the web sites just need to make sure the x86 motherboard OEM's hear your requests for generic bga-sockets and not let the BOM accountant's get their way...

the simple answer is there is no problem with flexibility and placing these new potential BGA packaged "x86 SOC On Module" or bare BGA packaging as long as the OEM board vendors don't actively kill it off and cut their own mass profits switching their lines to soldered appliance form manufacturer.

as people then have no reason to stay with these board soldered BGA x86 SOC appliances and move whole sale to any of the new ARM quad+ SOC On Module vendors with all kinds of new hardware blocks to choose from today...

if your currently preferred x86 motherboard vendor where to remove the current socket and not replace it with the equivalent bga-sockets as the packages get smaller...
to reduce their Bill Of Materials cost by a few penny's then would you seriously stick around and continue to buy their products if the new vendors on the block sell exactly what you want to buy

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17.

The benefits of having the CPU interchangeable is lower cost for stocking it at the retailer or eRetailer. Also less waste. People normally will just throw away a motherboard in the trash like any other electronic device. The components on the motherboard are valuable for making new electronics. Also the motherboard if thrown in the trash is harmful for the landfill.

Having a non-interchangeable processor method is OK for models like Apple's. Apple has figure what hardware their operating system should use for each area like low and high. Microsoft does not have such model. They provide the minimum requirements and let the end-user decide on the components. Really a non-interchangeable model for desktops just does not work especially for end-user that do DIY builds.

If a non-interchangeable processor method is used, the cost of time for me to take out the motherboard takes me about a hour. This means removing optical drive, power supply, and this is after I remove any expansion boards. Removing the motherboard out of a case is just a bitch and it is always the step that I dread doing for a computer. In business time is money. The non-interchangeable processor method will cost Dell and HP a lot of money to do processor upgrades or to replace processors that are dead. Few computer cases these days provides a way to pull out just the motherboard and these limited cases may have art design of the case not appealing to most people.

What is Intel thinking that desktops should go the non-interchangeable route when it hurts end-users, computer manufactures, and most of all the environment?

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all you say is true,(and don't forget to use the canned air to clean the corners etc as the compressors still broke ) but don't go reading to much into into this investor report hype just yet, going to a smaller packaging and "go the non-interchangeable route" while possibly related, they are not the same thing.

after all do Intel/AMD etc continue to provide the same size package for another 20 years as the die sizes and other components shrink, theres only so much you can put on a SOC from a features POV

we (you should) have already known x86 is going fully SOC based at some point in the future, even if Intel do go all the way with most of their medium/high end products and mostly make real general purpose "many core" CPU/SOC in the future as they keep hinting at the last 2 or 3 years etc the package will still shrink too in time.

LOL not to mention if their world ends as many people hardly scratching the surface are assuming that this is 100% true and a forgone conclusion came true then it woukd probably wreck and massively shrink Anton Shilov's font pages http://www.xbitlabs.com/ 3rd party products... and many others besides.

so Anton, are you ever going to join us here in the comments to add details etc...

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Exactly, there would alaways be an ethusiast class products. The issue here is that multiaccount trolls like "linuxlowdown" think that just because AMD cannot compete in that class everybody must follow them because they cant get into that category.
If the article you posted here is true, this means is just a strategic move from Intel to maximize their profits as much as they can during this economic crisis.

Edit: LOL I just posted this and i already have two downvotes. hilarious
I guess "linuxlowdown" is on his night shift as well.

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"Anton: What details are you expecting from me?"

nothing in particular, i just thought as a large 3rd party vendor "shop window" you might have already sent off an email to the lintel executive office* (bypassing PR) asking some pertinent questions regarding end user "enthusiast community" and perhaps a related open letter Q&A to get some clarity and to make a follow up news page or two....
to offset the speculation we see in the threads.

although BestJinjo's translation in the 1: thread section seems to clarify things a little.

* so having the executive office instruct their PR to give you better informed answers as the BOD are now aware and their expecting a PR progress report on their desks PDQ.

LOL, What, a down vote for that, i suspect its **"Luddite" linuxlowdown (Anton would know) but whoever it is, you really need to stop, think,(get and take your medication) and then make a real reply to clarify your down vote thinking here perhaps, but whatever, next.

**1. One who fears technology (or new technology, as they seem pleased with how things currently are...why can't everything just be the same?)

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I didn't vote ya down. Someone else didn't like your argument. Don't behave like a school boy having a hissy fit in front of the teacher. You know, I don't vote if I don't weigh into the thread argument. I'm guessing your reference to me being a Luddite is because I have apprehensions about cloud computing. Well, I'm not the only one. This also fits in with the Linux paradigm of giving users control of their systems and destiny of their data. But if other people want it, they can have it. I don't think its inherently unethical otherwise I would not invest in companies that make products for it.

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I think this is horrible news. Considering i did upgrade a g530 celeron to a i3 2120. So i now own 2 2120 systems and a allmost 2 year old 2600k @ 4700mhz with 560tis in sli. But for one thing my 2 year old 2600k is still a monster great cpu. 2 years old and with a overclock it is faster then every cpu you can buy as of now excluding overclocked 6 core sandy-E.
Almost every cpu build i have done in the past has been outdated in 6 months time. Now my 2600k is still a moST FORMIDABLE CPU Mine will easily break 5ghz but i stay at 4700mhz until i get a better cooler then my h60 type water cooler. Corsairs new h100i looks very awesome and is a improvement over there old h100. I will not use the stock fans unless they are quiet and i will have a push pull setup on the thing. But right now it is not needed so i will wait until the price drops since a 4700mhz 2600k is plenty fast that i wil not need to run at 5.3 ghz for a good while
I have to add my 2 i3 2120s are no joke they pack a great deal of performance into a cool running low power rig that is fantastic for my 2 HTPCs with HIS iCOOLER HD7750s that do not use a pci-e power connector and overclock from 800 core to well over 1100 and memory from 1125 to 1365 with no additional power but the pcie 16 slot bringing my stock score from 2665 to 3401 in 3dmark11 a dramatic 29% increase in performance. Also i have a 220 watt psu in one unit and a 300 watt in the other

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19.

Sure I don't upgrade CPU very often, but there was a time that I needed a computer and didn't had much money, so I got an AM3 mobo with an athlon II x2, that was as far as my money could go.

A couple of years later AMD released phenom II x6 and I jumped from low to high end side (at the moment intel SB was not yet released) with just a bios Upgrade and the new cpu. Because at the moment I was able to afford the cpu alone.

Same I did with my girlfriend's pc this year, no much money to spend, so I got an i3 on a h61 mobo that can take up to ivy bridge chips, so once she is in better financial status to pay some more money she can upgrade to an i5.

Even if those platforms are obsolete after a couple of years, used cpus can save the day in cheap.

If intel start soldering their cpu's we gonna have way pricer computers, just as we see with the all in ones, 2-3 versions and pretty expensive.

I hope this scenario will never come true and keep both solutions in the market.

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Try getting Intel fanboys to believe that. Intel is strangling the tech industry because it is in a dominant position in many hardware design and manufacturing markets. It is bad for competition. It is bad for consumers. It is no surprise that AMD and ARM have joined forces. Expect Intel to behave like a wounded bull - it will come back hard to try to impale the matadors.