Not sure it's any major cause for disharmony especially as this forum is now largely populated by people who don't play at all ? forums are just a means for discussion which is fine and how it should be - all this baffles me to be honest if Subbuteo produced it and it says so on the box then it's Subbuteo the rest of it is petty politics and almost entirely politics of an Italian derivation ... I'd only have two rules

1) Play to advanced rules
2) Goalkeeper must be as sold with the team

No more rules or governing bodies required ... I'd even let a certain gentleman from Merseyside use his prototype bases if it suited him

On a wider point I do agree .. too much time typing drivel is bad for the soul I've got work to do

Hello everyone, just returned to this forum after a while and couldn't resist this thread

A few words in defence of non-tournament and solo play....don't get me wrong playing in a tournament is great for meeting people, especially putting faces to usernames, and making some good friends, but the actual play is a bit of a car-crash in my opinion. Rules and their interpretation is a bugbear which has been chewed to death, but the key to it is that there are expectations of play, and in a tournament one doesn't necessarily know the 'norms' that one is faced with - and that creates anxiety (well it does to me)

Non tournament play is against folk who you know not only as people, but also as players, and the letter of the rules therefore become secondary to the enjoyment of the game. Once someone knows that I play at about one mile an hour they can also relax with their blocking - no need to rush, as I am not going anywhere It also opens the game up - six or eight players on the shooting line is pointless against me (and is just annoying -see rules interpretations for endless whingeing). An open game using footy formations, played in a relaxed manner is what I do - makes me happy - tournaments don't give that ability to relax and just play.

Solo play even more so - pushing it to say 'trance like state' but not far off, and a solo session absolutely doesn't mean I am missing anything else

There is a need for everyone to unpack their sets, get a table and just flick for the absolute pure pleasure of the nostalgia, the 'play' rather than the play - if you get the difference.......

Good to see that you are back, and read your words of wisdom on the game.

My views entirely; my solo league games are possibly as near to "football chess" as one can get. The resulting "battles of tactics" make it all the more enjoyable and worthwhile, for me at any rate.

Nowadays, the different manufacturers' teams have produced more variety, and now that I'm using a traditional pitch, rather than the astro, the teams have had to make slight tactical modifications due to its different pace. Two subplots which keep the grey matter occupied and, again, provide a little extra interest.

I don't play much, as I'm more of a collector, though I do have a table. I wouldn't play in an organised tournament though (as much as I'd like to), simply due to feeling uncertain as to whether my interpretation of the rules are correct, and wouldn't want to embarrass myself or indeed cause any trouble.

Hey guys,
BlackpoolRock - I too see it as a thinking game, agree with your sentiments about solo play!
Flash - Tournaments are an acquired taste to be sure, having been picked up on three differences in rules in two games, then playing a third game where I was picked up on a change in Rules I had just adopted in the previous game made my head explode!! But that aside, just get those little men out on the pitch and knock a ball around, it the tactile experience of flicking that really brings back all the nostalgia for me!

Hello everyone, just returned to this forum after a while and couldn't resist this thread

A few words in defence of non-tournament and solo play....don't get me wrong playing in a tournament is great for meeting people, especially putting faces to usernames, and making some good friends, but the actual play is a bit of a car-crash in my opinion. Rules and their interpretation is a bugbear which has been chewed to death, but the key to it is that there are expectations of play, and in a tournament one doesn't necessarily know the 'norms' that one is faced with - and that creates anxiety (well it does to me)

Non tournament play is against folk who you know not only as people, but also as players, and the letter of the rules therefore become secondary to the enjoyment of the game. Once someone knows that I play at about one mile an hour they can also relax with their blocking - no need to rush, as I am not going anywhere It also opens the game up - six or eight players on the shooting line is pointless against me (and is just annoying -see rules interpretations for endless whingeing). An open game using footy formations, played in a relaxed manner is what I do - makes me happy - tournaments don't give that ability to relax and just play.

Solo play even more so - pushing it to say 'trance like state' but not far off, and a solo session absolutely doesn't mean I am missing anything else

There is a need for everyone to unpack their sets, get a table and just flick for the absolute pure pleasure of the nostalgia, the 'play' rather than the play - if you get the difference.......

That's why I like the Oldsubbuteo Tournaments in Italy...because everyone is a friend. They meet monthly for Tournaments and play weekly at Club meet ups. Everyone knows everyone. It's very social...three hour lunch's and everyone goes for a meal and drink in the evenings. Usually spread over a Saturday and Sunday. All the Wags turn up as well as the kids. It really is a family affair, and actually never feels like a 'Tournament'.

Of course...everyone plays to the best of their ability...but no one throws a strop if they lose. Warm handshakes and hugs has been my experience over there. I haven't met any problems in Italy...if there has been, it's been via the net. Keyboard warriors.

One question fella...isn't there a time limit on how long you take to mull over your next flick? I'm sure there is. I remember playing against one speedy Italian who played like a hurricane. Very good he was too. My tactic was to slow everything down...it did his nut in. In a good way. He actually praised me for spotting his weakness and using it as a tactic.

The only tournaments that I have played in were at Maidenhead and Steve Moreton's in Southend, where there were mainly Italian players at both events. There were never any rule disputes that I can remember at any of the events and they were always great fun. There were a few rules broken at times, but so what, that just replicates the real game.

Regarding slow play, there is surely a difference between a slow player, quite legitimate, and a 'quick' player who slows the game right down when in the lead with not much time left. May be within the rules, but not within the spirit of the game.

In my solo play, I refer to 'quick' and 'careful' teams by the number of passes they take to get the ball forward, rather than the time I take between each flick. In fact, I found that the slower I played (in terms of time taken over flicks), the more goals I was likely to get, although I'm unlikely to walk halfway around the table just for a blocking flick, if the attacking side is in full flow.

Regards tournament play, I'm very much looking forward to Stoke, to enjoy the atmosphere and meet the faces behind the names. I shall enjoy taking part, but hoping my play won't be an embarrassment. There probably haven't been too many Subbuteo players who make their tournament debut after starting to collect their old age pension.

Absolutely right - like the Italian lads who come over ... some come to buy ... some come to win ... some come to have a drink watch football and do both or either of those things at the events ... and everyone enjoys it their own way - which is the main thing with a hobby for heavens sake.

Got to be honest I don't drive a four or five hour round trip without some notion of trying to win ... and my lad has the same mindset

Ralph... You got the point! As usual you are a real gentleman, too bad I don't come to England anymore to play or buy Subby. But that is the exact same idea why many crossed the sea..