I'd love to see what universities look like without fraternities and sororities, but they are far too ingrained in the culture. Administrations won't be able to kill them, and are living in the clouds if they think they can. Also, admins hate them for all the wrong reasons. The idea that frats or sororities will disappear or radically change in nature is about as realistic as the kids at Divest Tulane on the Tulane News section.

_________________“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.”--Troy Dannen 11.5.16

Poseidon—I didn’t say I wanted it mandated (in fact I said the opposite). I said I’d like/be curious to see what a world like that looked like. It’s a big difference

_________________“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.”--Troy Dannen 11.5.16

I actually joined a fraternity at Tulane but resigned after two years before I left to go JYA in the UK. I didn’t feel I was getting as much from the association as I should. Nothing bad, mind you, just not worth the dues and since I was watching my pennies it made sense to pull the plug. Nice guys though. We had the typical pledge initiation but nothing approaching the debauchery that some have. Drinking was nothing out of the ordinary but then the drinking age was 18 then so there was nothing illicit going on.

I think frats benefit you if you are really looking for some sort of group identity, especially if you feel a little lost at a school and don’t have any other group identity. Herd instinct. Since I played lots of high school sports at both small and huge high schools I think I fulfilled that need already. I understand why people feel they need it, otherwise community volunteer fire departments would go wanting.

They say that elite military organizations succeed not because of lofty ideals or God and Country, but because you never want to let your buddies down. Frats fulfill that need for some.

I actually joined a fraternity at Tulane but resigned after two years before I left to go JYA in the UK. I didn’t see the point since I didn’t feel I was getting much from the association. Nothing bad, mind you, just not worth the dues and since I was watching my pennies it made sense to pull the plug. Nice guys.

I think frats benefit you if you are really looking for some sort of group identity, especially if you feel a little lost at a school and don’t have any other group identity. Herd instinct. Since I played lots of high school sports at both small and huge high schools I think I fulfilled that need already. I understand why people feel they need it, otherwise community volunteer fire departments would go wanting.

They say that elite military organizations succeed not because of lofty ideals or God and Country, but because you never want to let your buddies down. Frats fulfill that need for some.

I joined a frat after I stopped playing football. It wasn't about a group identity in any way. I am very contrarian when it come to groups, perhaps to the detriment of my sports career. The frat I was in was medium sized enough to where you knew everyone. The benefits in my frat could simply be defined as having friends you could depend on. There may have been one or two who were looking for their Identity, but even that is better in a frat than being a SJW. College campuses are very transient places where people are there with own individual agendas, as it should be. However, it is wise to have the mutually exchanged council and help of others. That is why pretty much as soon as colleges started up frats and other societies sprung up as well.

Poseidon, you better expressed what I was getting at, which I tried to say with the military example. Like you said, college is a pretty transient place for most especially if you come from a high school where everyone knew one another since they were in diapers. College might be the first time for many to not know a soul going in, so a fraternity or a sorority gives you an instant manageable connection that might otherwise not happen. I sometimes believe that’s why so many kids from the same high school go to MegaState University together—it’s 13th grade.

Since I had been transient all my life—10 different K-12 schools in 4 states and 2 countries—Tulane was just another place to jump into. With a transient lifestyle one learns to make lasting friends quickly, which I know is not easy for many.

Things have changed quite a bit in the last couple of decades. Universities recognize the need to incorporate all students into the community. Along with a burgeoning set of student groups, club sports, etc. colleges have made it a point to create residential colleges and similar style living arrangements so that students have a community that's easy to access as they need it.

When I was at school, 1/3 of Tulane was Greek and 2/3 was not. I never in my four years saw a non-Greek student missing out on the social experiences they wanted. On the other hand I did see students who joined Greek life whose grades suffered and were otherwise negatively impacted. The level of groupthink I saw at times was disturbing. I know many will disagree with me, and that's ok, but Greek life has outlived most of it's utility IMO. The potential negatives far outweigh the positives.

Things have changed quite a bit in the last couple of decades. Universities recognize the need to incorporate all students into the community. Along with a burgeoning set of student groups, club sports, etc. colleges have made it a point to create residential colleges and similar style living arrangements so that students have a community that's easy to access as they need it.

This is true. However the residential colleges are also becoming more closely managed by the universities themselves. If one likes University admins policing everything then go for it. I don't, this is top down group think.

tulaneoutlaw wrote:

The level of groupthink I saw at times was disturbing. I know many will disagree with me, and that's ok, but Greek life has outlived most of it's utility IMO. The potential negatives far outweigh the positives.

It is the actors or the institutions. It's mostly the individuals that muddy the frats ideals as stated not frats muddying individuals. Frats are far from synonymous as well.

I could say this ''The level of groupthink I saw at times was disturbing. I know many will disagree with me, and that's ok, but the college of liberal arts life has outlived most of it's utility IMO. The potential negatives far outweigh the positives.'' Reform not destruction is the best coarse for both.

Fraternities (and sororities) are a form of social club, no more, no less. They can be useful for their members; you can get the same things from a good club sports or other campus organization, though. The negatives can be there for non-Greek organizations, too (I know the Chess and Gaming Club, to name a group where I was an officer, engaged in plenty of drunken shenanigans, as did most other clubs or groups I knew of). If you're going to have campus organizations with a social element--and you absolutely should--fraternities and sororities are a normal part of that.

Of course, this also means that they should be regulated as other groups are (or aren't). If they're doing things that are criminal or seriously dangerous, the group should be removed.

Always a curious subject for me and I was on the side of "why do I need to buy a friend?" That said, I know it served some very well.

I'm curious, what does the data say about Greek participation changes over the years at Tulane and across all colleges? Is it up or down? And since I presume to total college enrollment has increased over the past 30-40 years, I would think it needs to be reflected as a percentage. I will look it up, but maybe someone has this at their fingertips.

Doncecco---someone else would have to address exact numbers, as well as anything national. But as for TU, I know numbers were WAAAAY down after Katrina for about 5 years, and are now sharply back up.

_________________“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.”--Troy Dannen 11.5.16