Posted signs

We recently bought our property in the last year and after we had a survey done, I went around to locate the property lines and corners since the surveyor had marked them out nicely. We are planning on building a house on the property in the spring but go there quite often now to spend time and walk through the woods. On the south side of our property, a neighbor owns 4 acres. He seems quite friendly. His put posted signs on his property probably sometime in the last year or two and I noticed that the newer ones are on trees located about 20-50 feet on my side of the property line. Is this a normal way to post signs? I bought some and am mounting them on boards and am planning on putting them up in the next two weeks before deer season. Any comments on where I should locate my signs (i.e on the line or back somewhat). Do posted signs such as this neighbors in any way indicate someone's claim to property? Any advice would be appreciated.

Re: Posted signs

Sounds like my battle 20 years ago.... My neighbor posted NO TRESPASSING signs on my property and proceeded to claim the property. They also claimed ownership of the road to my property and said I was land locked, but that is another part to the story that I won't go into now. It took many thousands of dollars to defend my claim and I was not reimbursed for any of it through the title company. Now, 17 years later, even after the battle was settled, and the court approved the boundary line agreement, the survey recorded, and quit claim deeds signed by both parties, they continue to violate my land and trespass.
First, I would suggest that you have your survey registered with whatever governmental agency records deeds and survey maps. Then have the surveyor come back and walk the boundaries with you and if possible have a third neutral party with you when this happens, so if you wind up in a court battle, you can bring in the neutral party to testify what the surveyor has said. Then, and only then, remove his signs in front of the surveyor and dispose of them. Also put your signs on all the trees that are closest to the property line and space them approximately 50 feet apart. Many states have a standard for this spacing, but more are better. Then photograph the surveyor and the neutral party at each pin and make certain that the pins are driven into the ground to a point that they can't be removed easily. Many people will either remove a pin or relocate it. Both actions are illegal, but you have to prove who did it to prosecute and that is a difficult task unless you actually see them doing it. Every one of the pins that the surveyor placed on my common boundary with my neighbor has been removed. I know that I didn't do it, but I can't prove who did do it, so I am left with the cost of having them re established. Document everything and don't take anything for granted. People will fight tooth and nail for inches when it comes to land. Hopefully you don't have a deed that is vague such as from the snow pile to the oak tree along the fence line and all these things were there in 1900 and not in 2003.
One thing to consider is to remove every tree that is on your property that is close to the property line so you will have a clear line of sight of the pins. It would be best to have the surveyor there telling you what trees to cut. I have learned a lot in the past 20 years and the one thing that I know is that when someone claims your property as theirs, the only winners in the end are the lawyers.
If you are so inclined (translates to brave), ask the neighbor if he has had his land surveyed and if he has, ask to compare maps. Then if there is a discrepancy, ask the neighbor to have his surveyor contact your surveyor and try to resolve the differences. If the neighbor never has had his land surveyed, and is relying on hearsay, then you are in for a battle unless he can be convinced otherwise.
If you have the time, you can do a lot of the research yourself by looking up the land records and getting a copy of his deed and comparing it to yours to see how the boundary line language compares. Also ask if there is a map of his land on file. Try to go back in the records as far as you can to see if anything has changed on the deeds from transfer to transfer. The more homework that you do the less it will cost you in legal fees. The deeds and maps are public record and aren't very expensive to get copies of them. Start building your file of pictures, and documents now. Keep a note book of all conversations and what was said. If you have a video camera, even better.... make a movie of everything. I am certain that others that have been through this will also have other suggestions too....

Re: Posted signs

Very good advice from Junkman. I would just go talk to them asap. When you had your survey did you have blaze lines set ? or just a boundry survey with pins ? If you just have a boundry survey its very easy to get a bit confused. It is fairly common to put sign ON the line. I did this as did my neighbors when we were both new. since then the only ones that remain are on the road. If they seem like reasonable people the good news is that its usually pretty easy to sort out with a friendly conversation. Dave

Re: Posted signs

Just a couple of weeks ago I was told the easiest way to tell if your new neighbor was from the city was if the first thing they did was buy and post no trespassing signs. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

It's been my observation that the way we act in the city eventually becomes the opposite of the way we act in the country.

I'll go in and put in a fence around a five acre Mcranch or Mcfarm. Invariably it will be pointed out to me that the neighbors are too nosey and seem to know everything about everyone.

I'll come back in five years later and they will update me on just who has what and if they've done this or that, about the whole neighborhood. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It has always been interesting to me how folks in the country know everything about their neighbors. But in the city people don't know squat about the family two doors down.

I've finally decided it's all about congestion. When we're stacked we shut ourselves down and limit our exposure, us to them, them to us. When we have space then we become fascinated with the world around us, even the neighbors.

I do a lot of work in the country for folks from the city and the country. I've come to the conclusion that conversation and communication with the neighbors is the best way to keep your yours and the way you want it.

Re: Posted signs

Thats really well said and based on my experience is the dead on truth. I live in the typical sub urban sub division. 85 home sites. I know my immediate neighbors on three sides but most of the rest I have no idead who they are etc. We only have 1/2 acre lots and the guy next door has never said six words in three years. Two or three doors down I have no idea. At camp My property is five miles in from the main gate. I know 70% of the people really well, exchange numbers emails, talk dureing the week, get together for a cold one watch each others prooperty etc. Every time some one new from the city buys in, Up go the signs. I did it too. A year later 80% of those signs are down. just dont need em. Talking and getting to know my neighbors has been the best solution. Dave

Re: Posted signs

Haz, I'm going to suggest the direct approach like several of the other posters. I'd just go talk to him. Tell him you got a survey so you would know where the property lines are, and ask him to walk the survey lines with you. Either while you are walking or before you walk, talk to him about putting his no trespassing signs right on the survey line, mounted to t-posts or something similar. You'll be able to judge how serious he is about the signs and he may even volunteer to take them down or move them. Essentially, I always give folks the benefit of the doubt until I have reason to believe they will resist. I always represent my surveys as my wanting to make sure I don't encroach on their land. Most of the time things go pretty well. I also make it a practice to only put up no trespassing signs along the county road. I don't think it makes the right statement to put up signs along the property lines between me and my neighbors.

After making this attempt to come to agreement, your neighbor will either agree or state his resistance. At that point you would have to escalate your pressure, but I'd try to keep it friendly unless you see you have to force the issue.

Re: Posted signs

Jim, that sounds like great advice. My wife and I are about to buy 10 acres or so and this thread has been really informative. Junkman's advice was pretty darn good too -- spoken like a true lawyer (I realize that, to some, that might sound like an insult, but I really did mean it as a compliment). The only thing I would add is, when you go to talk to your neighbor, don't forget the cold ones to help the discussion along! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]