MrBallou:Little Head doesn't always make the same choices that Big Head would. We aspire to nobility but just can't escape our monkey nature.

It's not even men alone. Women will instinctually seek out the best sperm and the best material support. Even if those are provided by different men. Men will attempt to spread their sperm as widely as possible. While providing as little material support as they can get away with.

You know what's good? A king-cut prime rib every once in a while. You know what's not good? Prime rib everyday for until death do you part. Not sure how that would work since the prime rib's dead already, but you get the idea. Just don't go out cheating on the prime rib with some lobster, or even a PB&J, without talking it over with the prime rib beforehand.

reveal101:MrBallou: Little Head doesn't always make the same choices that Big Head would. We aspire to nobility but just can't escape our monkey nature.

It's not even men alone. Women will instinctually seek out the best sperm and the best material support. Even if those are provided by different men. Men will attempt to spread their sperm as widely as possible. While providing as little material support as they can get away with.

Ahh a tale as old as time..

I know what you're actually talking about, but... gosh, that sounds like such a mess.

reveal101:MrBallou: Little Head doesn't always make the same choices that Big Head would. We aspire to nobility but just can't escape our monkey nature.

It's not even men alone. Women will instinctually seek out the best sperm and the best material support. Even if those are provided by different men. Men will attempt to spread their sperm as widely as possible. While providing as little material support as they can get away with.

Also i can do the information of this from the experiences of me. Married men with the children provide to me the best presents because they wish just for the escaping. They then do the harder work at sexing because they have knowledge that they will never have provision of the individual who is the sexiness of me and must instead proceed to the home for the sexing with the larger person.

meow said the dog:WhoopAssWayne: Only liberals feel this way. Been married for years.

She is cheating.

Also i can do the information of this from the experiences of me. Married men with the children provide to me the best presents because they wish just for the escaping. They then do the harder work at sexing because they have knowledge that they will never have provision of the individual who is the sexiness of me and must instead proceed to the home for the sexing with the larger person.

This is just some twit hawking a book. Actual data from places such as the CDC pegs the rate of marital infidelity at around 20% or so, which is, as you would expect, lower than the rate of divorce (and not the other way around).

Mister Buttons:You know what's good? A king-cut prime rib every once in a while. You know what's not good? Prime rib everyday for until death do you part. Not sure how that would work since the prime rib's dead already, but you get the idea. Just don't go out cheating on the prime rib with some lobster, or even a PB&J, without talking it over with the prime rib beforehand.

You're probably only a sirloin yourself.

/yes. I'm hungry.

me, too, which kinda pisses me off.

I'm huangrorny

/hungry, angry and horny.//people in this coffee shop are starting to look..... tasty

TwistedFark:This is just some twit hawking a book. Actual data from places such as the CDC pegs the rate of marital infidelity at around 20% or so, which is, as you would expect, lower than the rate of divorce (and not the other way around).

Yeah, the CDC has that number nailed down.... right. I don't see any reason why the rate of cheating should be lower than the rate of divorce. Secondly the divorce rate is a bit of a false metric, considering how many people get divorced multiple times.

I found the article to be relatively fresh. Of course this is to market a book, but everyone has an agenda.

TwistedFark:This is just some twit hawking a book. Actual data from places such as the CDC pegs the rate of marital infidelity at around 20% or so, which is, as you would expect, lower than the rate of divorce (and not the other way around).

"Actual data". Riiiiiight. Because people don't lie about sex, or (probably more often) the urge to be naughty, even if they don't act on it.

Interesting point FTFA: "They are longtime monogamists who one day cross a line into a place they never thought they would go. They remain monogamous in their beliefs, but they experience a chasm between their behavior and their beliefs."

I know a lot of people don't believe in polyamory (I'm undecided), but I have to wonder if at least the urge to practice it is far more common than people are willing to admit. I mean, what else can explain that kind of cognitive dissonance?

Mister Buttons:You know what's good? A king-cut prime rib every once in a while. You know what's not good? Prime rib everyday for until death do you part. Not sure how that would work since the prime rib's dead already, but you get the idea. Just don't go out cheating on the prime rib with some lobster, or even a PB&J, without talking it over with the prime rib beforehand.

You're probably only a sirloin yourself.

/yes. I'm hungry.

I hear ya, but im more like an Angry Whopper, and shes more like Waffle Taco with extra cheese.

"We are all born in a superposition state, that may be rudimentarily referred to as 'Potentially Polyamorous Pan-Sexual", with social normalcy derived from religious doctrine, and personal social circumstance, defining the resulting adult's persuasion in any direction."

What keeps them happy is that the cheating spouse keeps it discreet and then ends the affair after a few rolls in the hay; the cheated-on spouse, if he/she finds out about it, does not let it ruin their relationship, but understands that sometimes the body strays but the mind remains faithful. OR if they find they are not in love with each other, they amicably separate.

It's not that difficult, really. But finding someone that unselfish is rare.

filter:Yeah, the CDC has that number nailed down.... right. I don't see any reason why the rate of cheating should be lower than the rate of divorce. Secondly the divorce rate is a bit of a false metric, considering how many people get divorced multiple times.

ladyfortuna:"Actual data". Riiiiiight. Because people don't lie about sex, or (probably more often) the urge to be naughty, even if they don't act on it.

Okay, so people are happy to believe the CDC when it comes to stuff like HIV transmission, cancer rates, heart disease, etc, but for some reason you don't believe them when they conclude that only about 20% of married people had more than 1 sexual partner while married. Note: This number also includes people who are in "open relationships", so it's probably even better in favour of monogamy (or fidelity as the case may be) being the norm, and not infidelity.

In any case, it's more factual than the garbage this woman is pushing.

TwistedFark:filter: Yeah, the CDC has that number nailed down.... right. I don't see any reason why the rate of cheating should be lower than the rate of divorce. Secondly the divorce rate is a bit of a false metric, considering how many people get divorced multiple times.

ladyfortuna: "Actual data". Riiiiiight. Because people don't lie about sex, or (probably more often) the urge to be naughty, even if they don't act on it.

Okay, so people are happy to believe the CDC when it comes to stuff like HIV transmission, cancer rates, heart disease, etc, but for some reason you don't believe them when they conclude that only about 20% of married people had more than 1 sexual partner while married. Note: This number also includes people who are in "open relationships", so it's probably even better in favour of monogamy (or fidelity as the case may be) being the norm, and not infidelity.

In any case, it's more factual than the garbage this woman is pushing.

Oh. So there's some sort of medical test for infidelity now? You can run an ELISA or Western Blot to test for adultery antibodies?

Self-reporting is notoriously sketchy. Men inflate the number of sexual partners they have enjoyed, while women downplay the same. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I have more confidence in the CDC's HIV statistics than its extramarital-naughty-time statistics.

Gyrfalcon:worlddan: Maybe they are happy because they are having affairs?

What keeps them happy is that the cheating spouse keeps it discreet and then ends the affair after a few rolls in the hay; the cheated-on spouse, if he/she finds out about it, does not let it ruin their relationship, but understands that sometimes the body strays but the mind remains faithful. OR if they find they are not in love with each other, they amicably separate.

It's not that difficult, really. But finding someone that unselfish is rare.

Unselfish is right, but rare? In my experience, no. I've been in only two relationships where the 'other' was only interested in monogamy. (and was, ironically, my shortest relationship because: "I met someone else that I want to explore my relationship with", and couldn't get her head around the fact that I thought that it was a good thing, and to keep on seeing me. She's divorced now - guess why.)

My longest 'sexual relationship' has been 7 years, and I'm still her best friend even although we dont have sex any more. My 'current squeeze' has no problem with this, nor has she a problem with the other people that I 'date'.

Try reading about the Free Love movement, keep your mind open, and make a concious decsision to 'drop' jealousy (sorry my english is clumsy here). You'll learn more about yourself, and you partner(s) than by adhering to societal norms. YRLY

Gyrfalcon:What keeps them happy is that the cheating spouse keeps it discreet and then ends the affair after a few rolls in the hay

Like it's ever that simple.

Can't use electronic communications to make and conceal arrangements, can't use a credit card to line up a hotel room or a dinner, gotta find enough time to make it worth it (sneaking around to have bad sex seems especially stupid to me) but not so much time as to stir suspicion, and on and on. And human chemistry is always a crapshoot, with no guarantee the coconspirator who just wanted a booty call in March is going to feel the same way in April and will end things in May just as planned.

Too much work and nowhere near enough payoff if you ask me. The fantasy is bedslat-breaking squealing (and yet hit-it-and-quit-it) monkey love with Jennifer Lawrence. The reality is more like sitting in your car in traffic reminding yourself that your last name is not Clooney or Jeter and that hot intern you were checking out at work does not have the daddy issues you hope she had.

uttertosh:"We are all born in a superposition state, that may be rudimentarily referred to as 'Potentially Polyamorous Pan-Sexual", with social normalcy derived from religious doctrine, and personal social circumstance, defining the resulting adult's persuasion in any direction."

E5bie:rosekolodny: Oh. So there's some sort of medical test for infidelity now? You can run an ELISA or Western Blot to test for adultery antibodies?

Bringing home the clap from your work conference would be a bit of a tip-off. Without the reference on hand, maybe they've done some estimations based on epidemiology?

The 20% figure sounds plausible to me, especially if it includes the long-term monogamous who have a single, brief dalliance and don't repeat it.

Eh... Mostly what I was getting at is that people tend to be crap at self-reporting, especially if there is some dissonance between their actions and the moral/ethical structure that's important to them. Like this thing there:

I am pro-polyamory and pro-open-relationship. I think humans tend to be monogamish, to steal an awesome word from Dan Savage, and that dalliances are more common than reported. And I think the CDC's numbers would be better they didn't rely on self-reporting. But there ain't no test fer strange pussy.

uttertosh:Try reading about the Free Love movement, keep your mind open, and make a concious decsision to 'drop' jealousy (sorry my english is clumsy here). You'll learn more about yourself, and you partner(s) than by adhering to societal norms. YRLY

Yes, it's a beautiful thing when we can live without jealousy, love freely, give and grow without restraint. Beautiful.

Free love though, it seems to me it requires a certain amount of privacy, prosperity and freedom to migrate in order to work.

I would love to see a free love based community that holds itself together for more than one generation.

Sadly for us humans, our monkey nature is both jealous and adulterous. (The most prolific man kept a close eye on his women and took freebies when he could; the most prolific woman hoarded her man's attention and resources, and "snuck one in on him" when she could.) Living in society at all requires that we temper both our jealousy and our opportunistic desires. A perfect society would mean perfect love and cooperation as well as perfect freedom for individuals, and I'm sure free love would be the norm in it.

For most of human history, we've eked out an existence in small, insular communities with little privacy. Imagine having to live, work and play (er, survive) from cradle to grave only ever knowing the peers on your middle school bus route, the people in their households, and a very few others. Imagine that you're rarely alone, that you bed down in the same room with your whole nuclear family, that travel is costly. I can't imagine a society lasting long under those conditions without some pretty specific rules laid down about who could fark whom and when.

We live in a world organized around pair bonds for some reason. Maybe it's just easier to not fark your neighbor's wife than it is to not get mad when you walk in on your neighbor farking your wife. That seems to be the best that most of us can do.

Gyrfalcon:worlddan: Maybe they are happy because they are having affairs?

What keeps them happy is that the cheating spouse keeps it discreet and then ends the affair after a few rolls in the hay; the cheated-on spouse, if he/she finds out about it, does not let it ruin their relationship, but understands that sometimes the body strays but the mind remains faithful. OR if they find they are not in love with each other, they amicably separate.

It's not that difficult, really. But finding someone that unselfish is rare.

No, it's not anywhere near that simple. The relationship has been either ruined or re-defined by the affair, and the damage is usually irreparable. And in most cases, the affair is found out.

Real life is not a Nora Roberts novel. If you are attracted to someone other than your spouse and you're too gutless to fully communicate that and clearly communicate your needs with your spouse, then that's selfish.

rosekolodny:TwistedFark: filter: Yeah, the CDC has that number nailed down.... right. I don't see any reason why the rate of cheating should be lower than the rate of divorce. Secondly the divorce rate is a bit of a false metric, considering how many people get divorced multiple times.

ladyfortuna: "Actual data". Riiiiiight. Because people don't lie about sex, or (probably more often) the urge to be naughty, even if they don't act on it.

Okay, so people are happy to believe the CDC when it comes to stuff like HIV transmission, cancer rates, heart disease, etc, but for some reason you don't believe them when they conclude that only about 20% of married people had more than 1 sexual partner while married. Note: This number also includes people who are in "open relationships", so it's probably even better in favour of monogamy (or fidelity as the case may be) being the norm, and not infidelity.

In any case, it's more factual than the garbage this woman is pushing.

Oh. So there's some sort of medical test for infidelity now? You can run an ELISA or Western Blot to test for adultery antibodies?

Self-reporting is notoriously sketchy. Men inflate the number of sexual partners they have enjoyed, while women downplay the same. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I have more confidence in the CDC's HIV statistics than its extramarital-naughty-time statistics.

Don't be stupid. With the sampling size they have there would have to be an obvious and concerted effort for people to lie in order to substantially shift the numbers by more than a percentage point or two.

In any case, what are you arguing? That the number may not be definitive, or that it's off by an order of magnitude? If it's the former, then I'll grant that, because yes, we never really know, if it's the later then you're just a moron - or like this woman have a book to sell.

Humans were never meant to be monogamous, it's simply not in our nature. The only way to do it is to constantly deny the urges to have sex with others, some people are able to (very few), others are not.

ReapTheChaos:Humans were never meant to be monogamous, it's simply not in our nature. The only way to do it is to constantly deny the urges to have sex with others, some people are able to (very few), others are not.

Except - it absolutely is in our nature. Every point of data we have shows that far more people are monogamous than not.

I'm willing to concede that monogamy is not a polar state, that there may be a sliding scale of "monogamy-ish" behaviour, but to state it's unnatural is just frankly ridiculous considering how many people practice it, and practice it successfully.

I say this as a not particularly monogamous person myself - I have cheated on partners before, several times. I don't need to make myself feel better about it by claiming that it's just "natural behaviour". Basically I'm a bit of a selfish asshole who likes strange pussy and doesn't really care about other people's feelings.

But I'm the exception to the rule, and I realize that (and we should all be thankful that not everyone is a jackass like me).

ReapTheChaos:Humans were never meant to be monogamous, it's simply not in our nature. The only way to do it is to constantly deny the urges to have sex with others, some people are able to (very few), others are not.

It's very damaging to deny our natural urges every day of our lives. That's why I fart on public transport (and anywhere else I happen to be), pick my nose while unimportant people are talking to me (not the ones I want to impress), and always eat my co-workers lunch out of the work fridge when it looks more tasty than my own. (The lunch thing I have to hide and lie about to avoid uncomfortable confrontations, but luckily I learned deceit to avoid punishment when I was two years old. It comes so naturally!) I go through all of life doing what comes naturally, and I have the best time meeting new sexual partners in the distant cities I visit! Those of you who have to find a date among your own social circle, among friends of friends and so on, I feel so very sorry for you. Those kind of old relationships lose their luster very quickly, I've found. Familiarity breeds contempt. It's just human nature.