Editor's note: Raffaello Pantucci is an associate fellow at the International Center for the Study of Radicalisation at King's College and the author of the forthcoming "We Love Death As You Love Life: Britain's Suburban Mujahedeen" (Hurst).

A growing number of young Europeans drawn to protect their abandoned Muslim brethren have taken up arms in Syria. It's a dynamic that Europe has witnessed before.

In the 1990s, young Europeans were enticed by the idea of fighting jihad in Bosnia. Spurred on by radical preachers, young men and women were drawn to fight to protect their Muslim brethren merely a bus ride away.

Before the September 11 attack in 2001, the notion of fighting in a holy war was something far from most people's minds and reserved for history books about the Crusades. Occasional appearances by fearsome looking radical preachers at rallies where people would shout about holy war were shown every so often on television, but that was the extent of public knowledge of the issue.

But there was more going on, mostly unseen to the average citizen in Europe. In the mid-1990s as Yugoslavia started to fall apart, stories emerged of middle-class Europeans being killed fighting and of Western forces finding groups of fighters with British accents among the Bosnian ranks.

In the UK, a specialized publishing company produced cassette tapes and videos commemorating some of these fallen individuals, venerating them as martyrs who had died defending their Muslim brothers. These inspired others to follow, and over time a pipeline established itself sending young men to fight for God's cause.

The impact of this pipeline was only felt at home many years later. Omar Saeed Sheikh was a public school educated Briton who went to Bosnia and met individuals there who instead re-directed him to fight in Kashmir. Now he sits on death row in Pakistan, guilty of involvement in the death of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl after moving through various anti-Western groups.

Andrew Rowe is another example. After being injured in Bosnia, he used his war wounds to recruit others before trying to go fight in Chechnya. He is to be released from jail soon, having been incarcerated for plotting unknown terror acts in the UK.

Omar Sharif, who ended up part of a pair who targeted a Tel Aviv bar in 2003 on behalf of Hamas, first tried his hand at jihad in Albania, where he connected with elements linked to the Kosovo Liberation Army.

In France, the impact was felt even earlier, with the violent Roubaix Gang, a close-knit group of converts and Algerians, forming out of the embers of units of Bosnian mujahedeen. In 1996 the group launched a series of violent robberies using heavy weaponry, as well as attempting to blow up a police station in Lille. The group also had links to Ahmed Ressam, the Algerian who years later tried to set off a bomb at the Los Angeles airport.

A similar narrative is starting to be played out in Syria, with stories emerging that young Westerners are among those fighting against Bashar al-Assad's regime. There are reports of British, French and German citizens dying fighting alongside the Syrian rebels.

There are similar stories from liberated photographers John Cantlie and Jeroen Oerlemans, who told London's Sunday Times about being held by a group of predominantly British extremists at a camp in Syria. Cantlie characterized where he was held as a "camp that was like an adventure course for disenchanted 20-year-olds," according to the Sunday Times.

The British citizens were seemingly of mixed ethnicities and spoke of a wider war after Syria "because when they learn that sharia is spreading into Syria, then we will be at war with America," Cantlie told the Times.

In the UK we have only just started to see arrests linked to groups sending people to Syria. In France last week a network was disrupted that had been aiming to bring to justice those responsible for a grenade attack on a kosher deli. Its members were apparently planning to fight in Syria.

Other than incidents linked to the PKK with Syrian support in Turkey, we have not yet seen trouble emanate directly from Syria, though if history is anything to judge, eventually that will start to happen.

Supporting this narrative is the fact that the world continues to be divided over what to do about Syria, allowing rival sides to commit atrocities while the misery plays out live on television.

This is similar to events in Bosnia, where a slow-moving international response to the crisis allowed civilians to be butchered while prisoners were herded into miserable camps. Rival sides used the opportunity to fight proxy wars of their own: Then, as now, rival Gulf and Iranian factions support different sides of the regime.

Now the West is gently letting itself get drawn in, with ghosts of Afghanistan, Libya and elsewhere hanging over the notion of involvement in a civil war with religious overtones. It is easy to see how a jihadist narrative can be woven from this messy chaos, supported by angry protests at home advancing a persuasive story that shows brutality being meted out on Muslims while the world watches and does nothing.

As if this trouble abroad was not enough, it remains abundantly clear that extremist ideas continue to find fertile ground in young western minds.

While tactics have been developed to help persuade some individuals to turn away from such ideas, figuring out how to make them stop being attractive remains difficult. Syria now provides those of the right inclination with a worthy field on which to learn the warrior's trade.

Things in Syria have appeared to be coming to a head for quite a while. Some resolution needs to be found, before the perfect storm that helped incubate jihadist violence in Europe and elsewhere in the past finds a new permanent port in the chaos. Unless there is movement toward resolution soon, the problems we are storing up will come back and haunt us in the decade to come.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. – Lucius Annaeus Seneca
People who belief in absurdities, commit atrocities – Voltaire
All thinking men are atheists – Ernest Hemingway

Why is there one love? I disagree. I loved different people differently. I love my mother and father differently than my son, differently than my wife, differently than my concubine 🙂

As to one truth, I must disagree as well. Your truth is different from mine. And someone else's truth reading this post is different from the truth that we both have.

As to one god, I don't buy it either. All the ancient religions had multiple gods. Even Christianity, if you read the Old Testament, it says the sons of god saw that Earth daughters were good and they took them... So if god had sons, they must be gods too. Okay, forget about the Old Testament, take the New one. Christ. Who is he? He is son of god. So, if he's son of god, he's god too, right? So there are at least two gods that Christians know of now - the father and the son. Could there be more? Of course! Just like there are planets orbiting every star system in the universe. And we foolishly thought that we were alone in the universe. Ha!

3. Will the second coming of Christ be visible to all men or only to a select group?

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him." Revelation 1:7. "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:27.

Answer: Every man, woman, and child living in the world when Jesus returns will see Him at His second coming. The staggering threefold (Luke 9:26) brightness of His coming will stretch from horizon to horizon, and the atmosphere will be charged with brilliant glory like lightning. No one will be able to hide. Every living soul will be forced to face Christ. Christ left no loophole for doubt or misunderstanding.

Note: The secret rapture so commonly believed and taught today is not in the Bible. It is a human invention. Nor is the second coming a spiritual coming into the heart at conversion. It does not take place at a man's death, nor is it figurativeto be manifested by better world conditions. These theories are all of human origin. The second coming will be a literal, worldwide, visible, personal appearance of Christ in the clouds to bring this world to an end and to reward or punish all men and women.

gigir,
You do not know what you are talking about. Accepting "spripture" is bad enough given that scholars have said for years the whole thing is not based on history; and it is written by men with a political agenda: to rule by fear, in this case, fear of the after life. But the worse part of what you are saying is that YOU know, somehow, what only a god should know. You are reading a god's thoughts, are you? Of course not. You fell for nonsense. Read the Bible a bit more carefully...note the hundreds of contradictions. Consider what you say you believe. Free yourself from blind faith.
Will

NO matter what muslims say about how good islam is. The reality on ground is, islam has caused most pain to Human lives than anything else on earth. Not only non muslims but muslim themselves suffer from Islamic ideology but are stuck with it and canot leave it as they are constatly under threat of getting killed by fellow so called brothers ans sisters. Islam is not only terrorism for non muslim minds but it also constatly terrorizes muslims themselves.

I thought the Plague caused the most death... But I may be wrong. The statistical methods of the days were far from the methods of today. But next to the Plague, was the Crusade and then Inquisition. And who caused this? Christians! Muslims are no saints either... Actually I see more deaths caused by religion than by any other ideology on Earth.

Religion is your PERSONAL relationship with your GOD. Do not ever impose your personal relationship to be duplicated by others, since as we say its personal. Would you want others to also share your personal relationship with your TOOTHBRUSH? would you share force other to share your underwear. Only idiots and stupid would shove their beliefs to other and consider them enemies of faith it they dont agree. Be mature religious people.

Since his day, in every region of the earth and during every period, this Noble Prophet has been followed by individuals from all races, colors and peoples. Many of those who followed him were previously Christians, Jews, pagans, idolaters, or without any religion. Among those who chose to follow him, were those who were known for their sound judgment, wisdom, reflection, and foresight. They chose to follow this Noble Prophet after they witnessed the signs of his truthfulness and the evidences of his miracles. They did not choose to follow Muhammad out of compulsion or coercion or because they had adopted the ways of their fathers and mothers. Indeed many of the followers of this Prophet (may Allah's blessings peace be upon him), chose to follow him during the time when Islam was weak, when there were few Muslims, and when there was severe persecution of his followers on earth. Most people who have followed this Prophet (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) have done so not to acquire some material benefits. Indeed many of his followers have suffered the greatest forms of harm and persecution as a result of following this Prophet. Despite all this harm and persecution, this did not turn them back from his religion. My brethren! All of this clearly indicates to anyone possessing any sense, that this Prophet was truly and really Allah's messenger and that he was not just a man who claimed prophet hood or spoke about Allah without knowledge.

ISlam is not a religion,its politics created by Muhemmed, a child molester, to destroy other faiths and religions. Allah is not a God, its Fake god created by evil muhemmed to enslave Humans to his radical ideology which is sold in the name of Allah and is called Kuran. Islam is stone age ideology irrelevent in todays age and is cause of most Pain and deaths of not only non muslims but also muslim themseles. Islam is worst than Cance r and AIDS altogether and you are part of such cancer. I refuse to consdier muslims as Humans, muslims are Satans and follow Satanic cult called Islam. Mind it u mederessa boy.

watch your words man.......you are ignorant........this world is made for MUHAMMAD and you are(NAUZBILLLAH) abusing him....that era 1400 years ago was not like this 21st century.......ISLAM mean Peace.....admit it or not.......first read the HOLLY QURAN.....those points which you do not understand....discuss them woth scholars of Muslims....even then if you don't understand then there is no enforcement in ISLAM...live your life.....the world hereafter for you will be very very hard and bad....hell....that is for sure

October 20, 2012 at 9:46 am |

Amin

5. Allah instilled great love for Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) in the hearts of all who believed in and met him. This love reached such a degree that any of his companions would willingly sacrifice his (or her) self, mother or father for him. Till today, those who believe in Muhammad honor and love him. Anyone of those who believe in him would ransom his own family and wealth to see him, even if but once.

ISlam is not a religion,its politics created by Muhemmed, a child molester, to destroy other faiths and religions. Allah is not a God, its Fake god created by evil muhemmed to enslave Humans to his radical ideology which is sold in the name of Allah and is called Kuran. Islam is stone age ideology irrelevent in todays age and is cause of most Pain and deaths of not only non muslims but also muslim themseles. Islam is worst than Cance r and AIDS altogether and you are part of such cancer. I refuse to consdier muslims as Humans, muslims are Satans and follow Satanic cult called Islam. Mind it u mederessa boy

That's funny that you're saying that Islam is a stone age ideology. It is actually the most modern religion of all the major religions out there. It is the youngest, in fact. And it attracted a lot of people, as you can see... It is only second to Christianity in numbers of followers and Islam is on the rise when Christianity is in decline (numbers-wise). You want to talk facts or gibberish? I'm talking facts.

October 19, 2012 at 9:57 am |

Amin

4. The life history of this Noble Prophet was a perfect example of being upright, merciful, compassionate, truthful, brave, generous, distant from all evil character, and ascetic in all worldly matters, while striving solely for the reward of the Hereafter. Moreover, in all his actions and dealings, he was ever mindful and fearful of Allah.

ISlam is not a religion,its politics created by Muhemmed, a child molester, to destroy other faiths and religions. Allah is not a God, its Fake god created by evil muhemmed to enslave Humans to his radical ideology which is sold in the name of Allah and is called Kuran. Islam is stone age ideology irrelevent in todays age and is cause of most Pain and deaths of not only non muslims but also muslim themseles. Islam is worst than Cance r and AIDS altogether and you are part of such cancer. I refuse to consdier muslims as Humans, muslims are Satans and follow Satanic cult called Islam. Mind it u mederessa boy..

3. Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) also brought an Arabic Koran that is the peak of eloquence and clarity. The Koran challenged those eloquent and fluent Arabs of his time, who initially belied him, to bring forth a single chapter like the Koran. The eloquent Arabs of his day were unable to contest this Koran. Indeed, till our day, none has ever dared to claim that he has been able to compose words that equal-or even approach-the order, grace, beauty, and splendor of this Glorious Koran.

ISlam is not a religion,its politics created by Muhemmed, a child molester, to destroy other faiths and religions. Allah is not a God, its Fake god created by evil muhemmed to enslave Humans to his radical ideology which is sold in the name of Allah and is called Kuran. Islam is stone age ideology irrelevent in todays age and is cause of most Pain and deaths of not only non muslims but also muslim themseles. Islam is worst than Cance r and AIDS altogether and you are part of such cancer. I refuse to consdier muslims as Humans, muslims are Satans and follow Satanic cult called Islam. Mind it u mederessa boy....

1. Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) was raised illiterate, unable to read or write, and remained like that till his death. Among all his people, he was known as being truthful and trustworthy. Before receiving revelation, he had no prior knowledge of Religion or any previously sent Message. He remained like that for his first forty years. Revelation then came to Muhammad with the Koran that we now have between our hands. This Koran mentioned most of the accounts found in the previous scriptures, telling us about these events in the greatest detail as if he witnessed them. These accounts came precisely as they were found in the Torah sent down to Moses and in the Gospel sent down to Jesus. Neither the Jews or Christians were able to believe him regarding anything that he said.

ISlam is not a religion,its politics created by Muhemmed, a child molester, to destroy other faiths and religions. Allah is not a God, its Fake god created by evil muhemmed to enslave Humans to his radical ideology which is sold in the name of Allah and is called Kuran. Islam is stone age ideology irrelevent in todays age and is cause of most Pain and deaths of not only non muslims but also muslim themseles. Islam is worst than Cance r and AIDS altogether and you are part of such cancer. I refuse to consdier muslims as Humans, muslims are Satans and follow Satanic cult called Islam. Mind it u mederesa boy

My brothers and sisters everywhere! With this essay, I am not singling out the adherents of Islam – to which I ascribe – but rather I am writing this essay to every man and woman throughout the whole world.
I ask Allah that He facilitates that this essay reaches every ear, falls under the sight of every eye, and is understood by every heart... Muhammad the son of `Abdullah is Allah's Prophet and the Final Messenger Sent by Allah to the Inhabitants of Earth. My brothers and sisters everywhere! You should know that the Messenger, Muhammad the son of`Abdullah (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) is Allah's Messenger in reality and truth. The evidences that show his veracity are abundant. None but an infidel, who out of arrogance alone, could deny these signs.

With such "Dark Age" culture still in existence in India how can the world be healthy and the neighbors prosperous. India poses a grave danger to the world and its deities and leaders set a bad example. Mahatma Gandhi, a pedophile, needs to be exposed and tried posthumously for his child molestation crimes just like the Penn State crowd Sandusky et al. Gandhi's statutes need to be knocked down everywhere they have been put in USA. The hindu deities need to be shattered and trashed. Disgusting figurines of ugly and scary looking characters with demonic personalities. How can hindu children grow up mentally stable looking at such atrocious representations of evil in its most heinous form.

Needless to say, to tackle terrorism India needs to be defragmented into smaller nations....imploded if you may.

I think the West needs to just stay out of these Middle Eastern conflicts altogether. By encouraging, supporting and arming these rebels and extremists, we are destabilizing entire regions and inviting our worst enemies to gain influence and power in the region. By taking sides in civil wars, we are setting ourselves up for revenge by the people, groups, religious sects, etc, who we are indirectly helping to kill. What's even worse, the people who eventually gain power in these countries could be far worse for us than the leaders who we helped them to depose.

See, you're quite shortsighted. By staying away from the Middle East, we will stop bringing chaos and instability to the region. And if the chaos stops, then the Muslim nations may unite and create the Great Khalifat. This is the fear Western leaders have. Because if the Khalifat is formed, then the Middle East will present a real threat, not hypothetical as it is now.

Europe has one foot in the grave and will not help itself. When muslims invaded under arms they were turned back at the gates of Paris and Vienna. When they invade unarmed, leftist governments buy their votes with welfare handouts. Europe has lost the will to survive. I foresake them.

I would like to know why they are being referred to as "young westerners"? They are immigrants that perhaps been here for one or 2 generations.. and surly that's the point here. 'a slozomby' was right when he said they should just ban them from coming back in to place like France and the UK.

John-"These are human beings, billions of them." But they hardly show they are a part of rest of humanity-but at war with it? " As you well know, only a very small fraction are involved in terrorism,"- yes, we thought so- but doesnt look that way-just as we post and read this- 'a small fraction' got caught attempting to blow up the Fed Reserve building arriving from bangladesh. The rest of the 'small fraction' -went on a rampage all over the world burning and hitting at just about anything -from Benghazi where they killed the man who saved them from Gaddafi , to Sydney where a tiny tot held a placard 'we will behead' and smashed shops and beatup cops and passerby.Thats just 'tiny fraction' of the show- elsehwhere churches and synagogues and temples and bhudhist shrines were razed down. Just weeks fater a half a million people stood as Internally displaced people by clashes triggered by immigrants from same Bangladesh assaulting native tribals at India's North east. And that was a week after at Burma they clashed with Bhudhists, and at Thailand they bombed, and at pakistan they shot a 14 year old for wanting to go school. before you start on 'that proves millions of Pakistanis still against Terror – Bin Laden was given a warm second home and when he got busted millions marched angry that he was killed chanting death to America. Whole of Middle East looks like an Apocalyptical hollywood flick- just watch clips from Syria. Its high time liberal zombies allow the tiny fraction and the Rest of the faction -whether they are With humanity or Against Humanity. Honestly no one can deny anymore this war on humanity and yes-thats exactly Jihad (and if it isnt- its still a War Muslims are engaged at, no matter what u would call it).

anyone who says he/she believes in an all-powerful god; then adds that this all-powerful being has a rival (Satan) is insane. And that's why Islam is going violently nuts the world over. Christians used to be the same way because they have the same illogical theology: god's got a rival; and it's really scary! What childishness! Christians have calmed down a bit, but the tendency to get paranoid about this impossible rival (not to mention impossible god) can easily flame up again into violence. America has its Taliban-like paranoids. It is all very embarrassing in this supposedly scientific day and age! End of story.

There are NOT "billions" of Muslims. It is about a 1.6 billion, but that is not something for them to be proud of. Hundreds of millions of Muslims live in dire poverty and ignorance because their societies can not cope with the over population. There are not enough jobs for this destructive tsunami of births brought on by mullahs calling for more births, erroneously thinking that more is better; that all these births will bring on a dominant population. The Catholic Church made the same mistake, and look at the poverty and suffering in the "Catholic" countries. I am not referring to Italy, but South America and the Philippines. The Christians today far out number the Muslims, but so what? Both Christians and Muslims believe in a god...and a devil, which is illogical. They both think there will be a "final battle" between their god and this devil, and THAT is why Muslims want to get their numbers up! Catholics had the same unscientific reasoning for calling on Catholics to over re-produce...with resulting ecological and societal catastrophic results. Luckily for the rest of the world, Muslim and Christian women are noticing their children are starving,or not being able to be educated, or not being able to find jobs, so THEY are already slowing down this insane desire of the priests and mullahs for more births for a "cosmic war". Please, folks, consider what you believe! A cosmic war between a god and a devil? No god could have a rival; it makes no sense to think otherwise. Did or did not your god make everything? If you say, "Yes", then you know god made this devil you also believe in. So ask yourself: "Why would my god do that? Is it mathematically possible for an all powerful deity to have a rival?" Consider carefully, fearlessly what you say you believe about a creator.
Thank you
Will

So when you're being attacked eh. Like Christians, you believe in Satan correct? he is relentless, he works by manipulation, and lies and leads astray the people of the world... Constantly. That is a Christian look at him. is that also yours? We are under constant attack by him, and it is evident to muslims that America and its unbelievers have fallen astray to his power (which is evident in our lifestyle). And that you believe (as I also believe) is detrimental to the Earth (which belongs to Christ) or to you allah. Ie: the followers of the faith are under CONSTANT attack by the works of Satan, therefore justifying acts of Jihad against the evils that corrupt the spirit. What we disagree on (and there is ALOT) is how to handle the corruption of the soul.

I have just posted the message below, but feel your post needs the same message.
anyone who says he/she believes in an all-powerful god; then adds that this all-powerful being has a rival (Satan) is insane. And that's why Islam is going violently nuts the world over. Christians used to be the same way because they have the same illogical theology: god's got a rival; and it's really scary! What childishness! Christians have calmed down a bit, but the tendency to get paranoid about this impossible rival (not to mention impossible god) can easily flame up again into violence. America has its Taliban-like paranoids. It is all very embarrassing in this supposedly scientific day and age! End of story.

it is more than illogical to believe in a god that has a rival, in this case, Satan. It is in fact impossible for an all-powerful creator to have a rival, so if you think there is one, you are crazy. Not only crazy, but dangerously crazy because you think that it is up to mere, mortal humans to straighten out this Satan character for your god. Can you not see this is illogical? Also, belief in this Satan creates paranoia leading to...holy war, jihad and all the other insanity that leads from believing in an impossible theology that says an all-powerful god has a rival. Consider! Think! Believers in this illogical theology are slaves to fear. They are causing the misery on this planet, not a devil! Consider your belief system: do you really think a devil was let loose by your own god? And that you have to battle this demon sent by your god? Are you in the 21st century? Consider. Pause to consider your beliefs.
Peace
Will

"It is no secret that Hitler and his Nazi cronies sought inspiration from Indian extremist groups including the branding of his Nazi Party by adopting the Swastika, a traditionally Hindu symbol and representation of Hindu god Ganesha, as its marketing tool. The thesis being that like the Norwegian massacre the Jewish holocaust orchestrated by Hitler was inspired by the inherently violent cult of Indian Hindus and the manifesto of its then extremist/terrorist groups still in existence today. These groups are now the successors to and carrying out the vision of Al Qaeda all over the world albeit in a clandestine manner."

Let me quote another instance of this disgraceful disposition:
It is no secret that Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu leader) was a pedophile. What is very disturbing is his relationship (!) and friendship with Hitler. He is known to have offered advice and encouragement to Hitler and his Nazi Party to undertake the Jewish Holocaust."

A few months ago an auction was being arranged in Europe of Gandhi's letters and other artifacts corroborating the foregoing. Apparently, the Indian government with assistance from expatriate Indian businessmen muscled the auctioneers and put a stop to this auction.

Because.......hindus and Indians have a long history of backstabbing and hiding in fox holes and terrorising. Our people know it well.

"It is no secret that Hitler and his Nazi cronies sought inspiration from Indian extremist groups including the branding of his Nazi Party by adopting the Swastika, a traditionally Hindu symbol and representation of Hindu god Ganesha, as its marketing tool. The thesis being that like the Norwegian massacre the Jewish holocaust orchestrated by Hitler was inspired by the inherently violent cult of Indian Hindus and the manifesto of its then extremist/terrorist groups still in existence today. These groups are now the successors to and carrying out the vision of Al Qaeda all over the world albeit in a clandestine manner."

Let me quote another instance of this disgraceful disposition:
It is no secret that Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu leader) was a pedophile. What is very disturbing is his relationship (!) and friendship with Hitler. He is known to have offered advice and encouragement to Hitler and his Nazi Party to undertake the Jewish Holocaust."

A few months ago an auction was being arranged in Europe of Gandhi's letters and other artifacts corroborating the foregoing. Apparently, the Indian government with assistance from expatriate Indian businessmen muscled the auctioneers and put a stop to this auction.

October 18, 2012 at 4:34 pm |

Ex muslim

Biiggest terrorist of the world is Islamic muhemmed, who reped 9 yr old ayesha and killed millions in the name of fake god allah, islam is pure evil and so r muslims.

As the great dude said...Karma is a b..yaach...its gonna come back to bite u in the behind... First, your forefathers had to go occupy half the world and not stopping at that they bring in boat loads of muzlims into UK in the 20th century...well now its too late and time to face the muzaak....

america is suffering from being a degenerate nation of losers who are paying the price for murdering their own people on 9/11, stealing trillions and murdering millions of muslims. do you think this will end with snap of the fingers without you facing the REAL trouble in the future? Muslims will turn the world upside down for you and k!keroaches until end of the world. no one will get away with it.

Armenians were treated too well, then they backstabbed turks and helped russians invade and murder turks. this is why in my opinion these armenians and jews should have been leveled with earth from beginning and their existance not tolerated, now Turkey will make sure the mistake of tolerating parasites wont repeat either with armenians or jews. you will wish you didn't exist in next big war.

As the great dude said...Karma is a biyaach...its gonna come back to bite u in the behind...isn't it UK. First, your forefathers had to go occupy half the world and not stopping at it they bring in boat loads of muzlims into UK in the 20th century...well now its too late and time to face the muzaak....

Thank you for contributing the factual information to this forum. Too bad I see too many hot air bafoons here 🙂

October 19, 2012 at 10:15 am |

willknutsen

The dangerously Illogical theology of "The People of the Book"
In this now centuries-old religious war between the three "People of the Book" , much hard weaponry and physical violence have been used, but not much energy has been spent attacking the theology driving the madness and deaths: Illogically,a supposedly all-powerful god somehow still has a rival; and this rival wants, for some strange reason, humans to worship it, not the other. I believe we use bombs, not reason in this cosmic war because most adherants of these faiths do not understand the theology they share, that is to say they do not undertsnad that they are warring due to a shared theology! Nor do these bellievers grasp the inherent illogical nature of their shared belief in an all-powerful creator that somehow created a rival while "he" was at it. And I especially mean that the violent warriors in this cosmic madness have not grasped the illogical nature of the faith that makes them want to kill total strangers. For example: When watching the self-made "last will and testament" videos by the young English-raised Muslims preparing to bomb the London underground, their naive self-righteousness is what struck me the most. First of all they were not at all logical:: they were going to kill themselves, said one, wagging his finger, and making hip-hop culture gestures as if he had right on his side, because non-Muslims were attacking his "brothers and sisters". Such nonsense! The vast majority of Muslim deaths then as now is by Muslims killing Muslims. Using his logic, he should have blown himself up in Mecca during the Haj! Instead, they cowardly killed total strangers, including other Muslims. It is probable that not one of the non-Muslims had ever killed a Muslim! Where's the logic? But logic is frowned upon by the People of the Book. In America's Bible Belt, local media pumps out a steady stream of biblical nonsense based on ignorance of things dealing with physics and biological evolution. How else could some Americans go through the education system and still think the world only few thousand years old? How could their brains ignore the steady stream of scientific knowlege available to the public? Must not their ignorance be perpetuated by the religion "industry"? How else could millions of Americans think that National Geographic, for example, which has for decades spread scientific knowledge (with, bright, colorful photos, too!) is a publication supported by the illogical "rival" of their god? This is in America, not Saudia Arabia where access to internet knowledge it limited by threatens of violence and imprisonment. While I believe that much of this Bibile-Belt media blitz is paid for by those who make their very lucrative livings shearing their naively trusting, faithful sheep, the result is (as is the case also in Islam and Judaism) a paranoid vision of how life began on this planet: Read "The Book of Genesis" and see what I mean. God, as mentioned, supposedly all-powerful, somehow in this biblical narrative, has a rival, Satan. This illlogical core of the Biblically-based theology of these three cosmically has made them paranoid religions. Paranoia is not conducive to logic! Theologically there is not a hair's thickness between them, but the difference in action, as in violent jihad by Muslims in today's world, is activated and perpetuated by a culturally driven lack of knowledge of the physical world (of physics and evolution for example). Muslims are taught their whole lives to to surrender thought by the individual for that of a few "priest class" members. Even many Muslim university graduates are hobbled by the Islamic order to "Submit!" Not many ask: "To whom? And who says so?" To ask these questions is to insult the religion, and death is the penalty for trying to find out who really benefits from a billion people contributing some of their salary or goods to the religion. The Roman Catholics were the first to capitalize, literally, on the "pay us or suffer in Hell for all eternity" concept, and a good job to have if you can get it! But what about the idea of suffering, or singing for that matter, "for all eternity"? To be eternal means it (whatever) has ALWAYS BEEN! You cannot start eternity like one can a jail sentence. Eternity has no beginning or end. But the idea of a Hell had a beginning: the Christians came up with that little blackmailing scheme; It is not to be found in the Old Testament. In other words, Christianity is a protection racket: "You do what we say; and you pay us to say it, and we won't kill you; and after you are finally in fact dead you will not spend all eternity in a flaming Hell!" This is the protection racket as vile as it gets! Islam says the same evil thing; Islam stole it fair and square from the original theocratic mafia mugs. all too many Muslims are murdering others and themselves to get to a heaven and be spared the torments of a hell!The problem with all this is that when a brain believes in this paranoid theology (The devil is trying to keep me from reuniting with my creator!), fear is the driving force of the believer's action whether paying the protection money, or blowing up perceived enemies of an illogical god. Let us use the energy of logic, not bombs and bullets, to enlighten our fellow humans who are stuck in a dark, dangerous world based on dangerously unsound theology The addictive nature of fear makes re-education of religious fanatics addicted to fear a difficult task, but it can be done!
Will Knutsen

Hi, I have gone through your write up and I see you have problem with Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I give it you because a lot of atrosities have been committed in the name of the god that these religions purport to worship. I am a christian and I intend to speak from my understanding of what Christ taught us. We are taught never to avenge any wrong that has been done to us. If any take vengance and claims to be a Christian, his profession is highly questionable. We are taught to love everybody including our enemies. Love does no harm to his neigbor 1 Corenthian 13. If any profess to be a Christian and hates even his enemy, he is profession is questionable. In the days of the Crusades, people who professed to be Christians used the weapons of the flesh to fight their real or percieved enemies but when Christ was being arrested, Peter used knife to cut off someone's ear but Christ warned that they that took the sword shall perished with the sword. When the British came with the gospel to Africa, they told Africans they were superior by their white skin to the Africans. They preached Christ to Africans and hide under their preaching to pillage and exploit Africa. But, when some Africans later had access to the Bible and understood who Christ and his teachings were, the truth was led bear; those British preachers were fake and never true representatives of Christ. Today we still have people who hide behind the Christianity in politics, business, religion to commit evil. I have a problem with them just as you do and I pray someday they will understand and repent. STUDY THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF CHRIST, IF YOU CAN FAULT HIM, THEN HOLD ONTO YOUR BELIEF OTHERWISE I THINK IT IS FAIR TO CONSIDER.

the problem with all three "People of the Book", is, if I may repeat, that their god, which they say created "everything", somehow was able to create a being now called by one and all, Satan. And it was this Satan which caused humans to leave a prefect world. The problem for all three is how to get back to perfection without getting waylaid by this weird creation of their god. If you study Christianity for decades as i have, you will note that all the top theologians through the centuries have said that if we did not "Fall", then there is no need of a savior, and so the whole theology breaks down. Now, ask yourself this: Do I really think I got here from another time-space dimension (Eden) because of some devil that once once was (according to the bible) this god's favorite angel? I mean, where is the all-powerful creator in that scenario? Also ask yourself this: if god is everything, what need was there for a creation? And if this god was/is everything, how could more be made? The simpler and more elegant explanation for our existence is evolution of light into matter, then into more complicated matter until here we are and we are still evolving because such is eternity.It matters not that a billion years or so from now our sun will burn out: new suns are being reassembled all the time. And there is no reason for it, it just happens. Forever. That is easier to understand than the illogical mess in Genesis. An all-powerful god made a rival? And THAT's why were are here? And THAT's why believers in this paranoid scenario are killing each other thinking they are only killing a devil's helpers? Your faith is the faith of the addict in his/her drug. I urge you to consider the basis of your belief!
All the best
Will

October 18, 2012 at 2:51 pm |

Akpan Akaninyene

@willknutsen: "...The simpler and more elegant explanation for our existence is evolution of light into matter, then into more complicated matter until here we are and we are still evolving because such is eternity.It matters not that a billion years or so from now our sun will burn out: new suns are being reassembled all the time. And there is no reason for it, it just happens. Forever. That is easier to understand than the illogical mess in Genesis...." Willknutsen, have you stopped to ask yourself one day "whether what is a simpler and elegant explanation for existence like EVOLUTION could be wrong belief?" Are you not becoming a little arrogant and intolerant in your condemnation of the three people of the book just because you don't understand what your finite brain cannot fathom about the idea of a All powerful God who also created Satan? I believe the fact that evolution is easy for you to understand does not preclude fact that there are inumerable things in this world whose understanding is little bit complex. And our concept of God could fall into this complex dimension. In logic, ideas are not right just because there were simple and elegant but because their arguments were sound. Evolution is an idea whose premise and conclusion is still being debated.

That is the problem! Those people’s allegiance is first to their god and Islam not to their own country. You start to change this fact and love your country only when you become free and prosper. Most of the Islamic countries are not free and people are oppressed. Need to replace the head first and educate the people of this countries.

there actually is a threat of jihad when they come back and plot terror attacks in european soil. And that has happened.
And that is what the article is talking about. That a lot of 3rd generation immigrantas from islamic countries suddenly try to reconnect to their roots and get sent into messed up places to do messed up things.
and one day they come back messed up.

i found the article quite logical because it is a fact that his has happened , has been happening and has even increased lately with more and more terror attacks being dismantled across europe. Its not something people should ignore, its something people should talk about not in a fearful way but in a logical way of how to avoid it.

You are talking about Jihad and yet you dont know whats the meaning of Jihad. "Jihad" means struggle for a reason. Islam teach Muslims to do Jihad against their own soul's all ugly desire, angers and greed that is for self purification. Also instructs to stop any injustice in heavy hand whoever does that. Jihad is not something to be justified only against non-Muslims. Jihad has to be justified against any kind injustice. Like Syrians are now doing Jihad against their cult president. Palestinians are doing Jihad against Jewish occupation. Jihad is struggle against all injustice whenever and wherever it takes place. This is the religious teaching of Islam. Islamic teaching about Jihad is – when any injustice happens a Muslims duty is try to stop it with his voice, if that does not help, then stop it with your hand, then if necessary use armed struggle against that injustice. Today injustice against humanity is seen everywhere. In west, east and even in Arab world who are Muslims too but committing dirty crimes against humanity everyday. All these injustice are subject to be dealt with heavy hand thats Jihad. Pls study Islam as religion, you'd find all the answers. But dont connect some extremists own version of Jihad with innocent Muslims. Most interesting truth.... Osma Bin Laden did not know when Twin tower was attacked, It was a secret plan of extremist group of Al-Qaeda that but later he knew about the plan and he has to accept his responsibility. Thats is the reason when he was asked intially he denied it as Al-Qaeda involvement, but later he accepted it was Al-Qaeda.

October 18, 2012 at 8:26 am |

doughnuts

Amin, 900 years worth of Islamic scholars and theologians all say your "inner peaceful struggle" definition of jihad is a bunch of lies.
It always has been a war against anyone who doesn't believe in what you believe.

October 18, 2012 at 9:07 am |

Carl

Amin, you make the case perfectly for the unfettered violence that is jihad, exactly as the Western world knows it. Islamic "justice" is sated only by violence, not by a thoughtful legal process. All it takes is for Muslims to "feel" injustice or marginalized or victimized or oppressed or hurt in some way and the floodgates are opened to purify his soul with the blood of violent jihad.

October 18, 2012 at 10:27 am |

Canada

sure... jihad means "struggle within" but so does Mein Kampf. You ignore the truth of what the "struggle" actually is.
The West is a definate contrast to the beliefs of the Mid-east (except Israel...no wonder why the Arabs hate the jews.)
and Islam finds the practices of America and the west an abomination in the eyes of allah. now the "moderate" muslim may not take up arms, but their silence is complicity, because in their heart, they want to see the world as subservient to Islam. how can I say that? because so does my faith of Christianity, we too want to see the world under Christ. however, we'll let the Lord bring about those changes, not extremists and propaganda. (with the exception of republicans and Catholics) both have done harm to my faith.
please don't kid yourself, because we're not being fooled.

Good, let them kill a few hundred non muslims in Europe, let them attack, let them spread Jihad, let them show the real face of islam and it's followers. The more the better ! There will be no excuse left for the PC appeasers with their " religion of peace " rhetoric, time to get ready for the big clean up.

"Real face of Islam"? "The Big Cleanup?". "PC Appears?" Bigoted, violent hate-mongering, Willem. Shame on you, you are just proving the violent bigoted people on the other side right who think just like you. You want to use the crimes of a tiny minority to remove any "PC Excuses" that might block you from blaming innocent Muslims for them.

These are human beings, billions of them. As you well know, only a very small fraction are involved in terrorism, and Jihad is not terrorism. For example, it was not terrorism in Bosnia.

You think just like Bin Laden used to, just like the extremists do, and hate the innocent right alongside the guilty.

It is a passive form of terrorism through sheer numbers,overbreeding and the spread of religious hatred.

October 18, 2012 at 10:20 am |

Carl

Wrong, John, jihad absolutely is terrorism. Any other attempted usage is as irrelevant as trying to separate the swastika from the genocidal n@zis. And you know full well that the violent jihad movement is supported by far more that a "tiny minority." Poll after poll in the Arab/Muslim world gives widespread support for the use of such violent tactics against any group that Muslims perceive as encroaching on "their" space.

October 18, 2012 at 10:35 am |

Amin

It is an universal and Quranic teaching that a Muslim can never do harm to anyone unless they are being attacked. So Europe has no reason to fear Muslims since they are not doing any harm to them. As time goes people of peaceful part of the world will know who are the real problem makers and soon they will be isolated. Your anti-Islam propaganda will not work. Do something else.

You are either ignorant of your own holy book, or you are a liar.
I'm betting on liar.

October 18, 2012 at 9:08 am |

Canada

So when you're being attacked eh. Like Christians, you believe in Satan correct? he is relentless, he works by manipulation, and lies and leads astray the people of the world... Constantly. That is a Christian look at him. is that also yours? We are under constant attack by him, and it is evident to muslims that America and its unbelievers have fallen astray to his power (which is evident in our lifestyle). And that you believe (as I also believe) is detrimental to the Earth (which belongs to Christ) or to you allah. Ie: the followers of the faith are under CONSTANT attack by the works of Satan, therefore justifying acts of Jihad against the evils that corrupt the spirit. What we disagree on (and there is ALOT) is how to handle the corruption of the soul.

October 18, 2012 at 10:58 am |

Canada

Your nations have already been isolated! there are injustices there that are ambominable! Our Lord wants us to evolve, to grow as a people, to learn of the universe and gain knowledge (even if we only learn but a small portion in our life of flesh). The Middle-East has not evolved, and He has made that happen for a reason. This is not anti-muslim propaganda, its consequences to denying the truth of a matter. Do we feel isolated from the middle-East? no way. But is there utter scrutiny against the mideast from people Christian, athiest, and other faiths alike? yes. and after 3000 years, there is your isolation of nations of abomination. The West is follows.

October 18, 2012 at 11:07 am |

Carl

Amin, don't you realize that all these exceptions Islam carves out for itself create the perfect environment for the violence being perpetrated in the name of your religion? Muslims perceive themselves as "being attacked" when someone draws a cartoon, or speaks words they don't like, or a host of other reasons that most others would simply shrug off. And most would take issue with your assertion that Muslims have caused no harm in Europe. There have been countless riots, many murders, and much enmity in the name of Islam.

October 18, 2012 at 11:15 am |

Amin

Something really very strange....I figured out all religion's followers claim (including me) that their one is the true religion and consider others are false. As we all live in one earth order, so its logical to think its the job of one creator. So logically only one religion should be the true one. So my question to all of you ...which one is the true religion if its not Islam?

October 18, 2012 at 9:33 pm |

Akpan Akaninyene

Amin, there is good and evil in every religion including your own, Islam as long as it was started by man. I believe in the prophets – Abraham, Moses, David and Mohammed. I am convinced Amin believed in them also. But one big issue about each of these prophets is that non of them was sinless. Abraham committed sin, Moses committed sin, David committed sin and I don't want to mention Mohammed so I wont hurt your feelings, they all committed sin because they were human. Did God used all of them to proclaim His message to the people they were sent to? Of course yes! Amin, you will also agree with me that there is only one person in the whole of this universe that cannot, will not and has never committed sin and that is GOD. The story of the birth of Christ was unique acceppted by Quran. The life and work of Christ made him unique also. Those who to study his teachings says, it is beyond fault. Those that tried him said, they could not find any fault in him. He resisted every temptation to commit sin. He never sinned. No man could have walked the surface of the earth without commiting except God. That is why Jesus was not only man but God incarnate. Men have built a religion around him and they call it Christianity. But the simple truth is this, it is not about christianity as a religion, it is about following God who appeared to man in Christ. A lot of evil has been committed by people who professed to be christians but they couldn't have followed Christ and dare to that. It hurts true followers of Christ (God)whenever people who professed faith bring reproach on the the Name of God. These are Wolves in Sheep's clothing. To answer you question 'which one is the true religion if its not Islam?'. Religion is politics, It is another form of racism. Christ (God) don't play politics with human lives. He doesn't have anything to fight over here on earth. Christ (God) doesn't discriminate others based on any real or imaginary differences. Religion, whether Chistianity, Islam, Judaism or Hinduism will always cause war an blood shed. May God deliver us from religion, Amen.

CNN welcomes a lively and courteous discussion as long as you follow the Rules of Conduct set forth in our Terms of Service. Comments are not pre-screened before they post. You agree that anything you post may be used, along with your name and profile picture, in accordance with our Privacy Policy and the license you have granted pursuant to our Terms of Service.

Search Security Clearance

Share this blog

About this blog

CNN's Security Clearance examines national and global security, terrorism and intelligence, as well as the economic, military, political and diplomatic effects of it around the globe, with contributions from CNN's national security team in Washington and CNN journalists around the world.