--- Michel Dänzer <michel@...> wrote:
> > Rotate/flap window
> > multiple rotating video windows
>
> Doesn't sound very useful to me, but I imagine it shouldn't be too hard
> to do either.
MS said release version probably won't support this. It is just part of their
current demo.
I'm working on a similar system for Linux. My plan is to make OpenGL the base
API. I'm doing this via the Embedded Mesa project. Right now Embedded Mesa is
up on all Radeons and Matrox. I'm working on Rage support currently. Bringing
up new cards isn't too hard since you can use the XFree drivers with minimal
changes.
Once I get OpenGL up the plan is to write the 3D window manager. Apps draw into
pbuffers and then are composited by the window manager. I've got to make a few
minor changes to the DRI drivers to make pbuffers work.
Next step is to get a rootless X working on a per window basis using the OpenGL
API instead of XAA. XFree's 2D subsystem and window manager is not used.
The idea behind making OpenGL (plus a few GLX like calls) the base API is to
provide an easy target for our closed source friends at NVidia and ATI. OpenGL
is also a high level API with lots of room for taking advantage of future
hardware improvements. Non-3D hardware is handled via software Mesa.
This is a different philosophy than DirectFB, I don't want any low level
framebuffer calls to exist. Keeping things at the OpenGL level makes a remote
protocol easier and allows things like scalable windows. You can always
allocate a pbuffer and bit twiddle it if you want.
Of course this is a lot of work, anyone want to help?
=====
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@...
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On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 04:34:04PM -0700, Jon Smirl wrote:
> I'm working on a similar system for Linux. My plan is to make OpenGL the base
> API. I'm doing this via the Embedded Mesa project. Right now Embedded Mesa is
> up on all Radeons and Matrox. I'm working on Rage support currently. Bringing
> up new cards isn't too hard since you can use the XFree drivers with minimal
> changes.
>
> Once I get OpenGL up the plan is to write the 3D window manager. Apps draw into
> pbuffers and then are composited by the window manager. I've got to make a few
> minor changes to the DRI drivers to make pbuffers work.
>
> Next step is to get a rootless X working on a per window basis using the OpenGL
> API instead of XAA. XFree's 2D subsystem and window manager is not used.
>
> The idea behind making OpenGL (plus a few GLX like calls) the base API is to
> provide an easy target for our closed source friends at NVidia and ATI. OpenGL
> is also a high level API with lots of room for taking advantage of future
> hardware improvements. Non-3D hardware is handled via software Mesa.
>
> This is a different philosophy than DirectFB, I don't want any low level
> framebuffer calls to exist. Keeping things at the OpenGL level makes a remote
> protocol easier and allows things like scalable windows. You can always
> allocate a pbuffer and bit twiddle it if you want.
>
> Of course this is a lot of work, anyone want to help?
cool! i had exactly the same idea, i'am coding an "engine" to do that,
but i am not yet in the video part (opengl), currently i'm working on:
- loadable objects (at runtime) for 5 different subsystems:
+ video (via embedded mesa, or in the future someone port it to sdl,etc.)
+ audio (via openal [via alsa] -- 3d audio for 3d video coordinates)
+ input (via new 2.6 input layer)
+ system configuration (via sysfs -- that's why edid on sysfs is instrumental ;)
+ network (via libc)
- engine control:
+ every subsystem exists in a thread.
+ sync between subsystems.
+ visual objects management (aka window manager).
Maybe we can use this "engine" to do your 3d video stuff...
I'm tired of seeing macosx/longhorn capabilities and none for linux.
-solca

> On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 04:34:04PM -0700, Jon Smirl wrote:
> Once I get OpenGL up the plan is to write the 3D window manager. Apps draw
> into pbuffers and then are composited by the window manager. I've got to
> make a few minor changes to the DRI drivers to make pbuffers work.
Are there any existing OpenGL based window managers? Standalone Mesa/OpenGL is
working well enough on Radeons to start trying to write something. The window
manager could also be developed using the existing DRI OpenGL.
I've semi-ported the window manager from QT/Embedded but it's GPL license ruins
it for being part of a core desktop. A core desktop needs to be LGPL.
Trolltech's GPL position is that every closed source, user space application
owes them a license fee.
The general plan is:
OpenGL plus GLX-like API as base
3D window manager process
Applications direct draw to pbuffers
xlib to opengl compatiblity lib
xprotocol to xlib proxy process
Most of this is just code reused from XFree/DRI but wired together differently.
=====
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@...
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I'd be interested in this project. I beleive there was a project a
while back that did something like this using xnest. it was called
transluxent and was kind of a hack.
http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unk6/transluxent/
Also, speaking of pbuffers, Alan Cox mentioned that he a received a
code drop from via that had pbuffer support for savage and maybe
CLE266. did that ever make it into CVS? I'd hate to see it get lost.
Alex
--- Jon Smirl <jonsmirl@...> wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 04:34:04PM -0700, Jon Smirl wrote:
> > Once I get OpenGL up the plan is to write the 3D window manager.
> Apps draw
> > into pbuffers and then are composited by the window manager. I've
> got to
> > make a few minor changes to the DRI drivers to make pbuffers work.
>
> Are there any existing OpenGL based window managers? Standalone
> Mesa/OpenGL is
> working well enough on Radeons to start trying to write something.
> The window
> manager could also be developed using the existing DRI OpenGL.
>
> I've semi-ported the window manager from QT/Embedded but it's GPL
> license ruins
> it for being part of a core desktop. A core desktop needs to be LGPL.
> Trolltech's GPL position is that every closed source, user space
> application
> owes them a license fee.
>
> The general plan is:
> OpenGL plus GLX-like API as base
> 3D window manager process
> Applications direct draw to pbuffers
> xlib to opengl compatiblity lib
> xprotocol to xlib proxy process
>
> Most of this is just code reused from XFree/DRI but wired together
> differently.
>
> =====
> Jon Smirl
> jonsmirl@...
>
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Alex Deucher wrote:
> I'd be interested in this project. I beleive there was a project a
> while back that did something like this using xnest. it was called
> transluxent and was kind of a hack.
> http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unk6/transluxent/
>
> Also, speaking of pbuffers, Alan Cox mentioned that he a received a
> code drop from via that had pbuffer support for savage and maybe
> CLE266. did that ever make it into CVS? I'd hate to see it get lost.
Don't get your hopes up too much. You can't have pbuffers without
fbconfigs, and there's no mechanism in DRI for client-side drivers to
export fbconfigs. Perhaps this should be a topic for today's #dri-devel
chat. :)

--- Alex Deucher <agd5f@...> wrote:
> I'd be interested in this project. I beleive there was a project a
> Also, speaking of pbuffers, Alan Cox mentioned that he a received a
> code drop from via that had pbuffer support for savage and maybe
> CLE266. did that ever make it into CVS? I'd hate to see it get lost.
>
Pbuffers or a simlar framebuffer based system, is a requirement for doing a
hardware composited window manager. I've been looking adding these to the
radeon and rage128 drivers. This is a preliminary step that must be completed
before you can work on the window manager code.
The closed source ATI driver already has pbuffer support. This could be used to
develop a demo windowing system that runs under XFree.
=====
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@...
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