The unfortunate part about that interview is that it confirms they were "making it up as they went along". Kind of lame.

Why is that lame? They probably had the core story figured out from beginning to end, but new ideas and new storytelling opportunities presented themselves during the course of the series. Can you imagine how boring it would be to have every plot for 4 seasons figured out ahead of time? Can you imagine how weak that show would be as a result?

I thought it was lame too. Only because since day one they have said there is a "master plan" and all the little hints along the way led us to believe there was some deeper meaning that would eventually be revealed. We know now that they didn't even know what those hints meant.

For example, when they were on that planet with the temple and Deanna saw the 5th Cylon, she said "Oh, I'm so sorry". I was so intrigued by that simple statement. Who was it? Why was she apologizing?? Turns out the writers had no clue who it was or why she said it. Lame.

The unfortunate part about that interview is that it confirms they were "making it up as they went along". Kind of lame.

Why is that lame? They probably had the core story figured out from beginning to end, but new ideas and new storytelling opportunities presented themselves during the course of the series. Can you imagine how boring it would be to have every plot for 4 seasons figured out ahead of time? Can you imagine how weak that show would be as a result?

I thought it was lame too. Only because since day one they have said there is a "master plan" and all the little hints along the way led us to believe there was some deeper meaning that would eventually be revealed. We know now that they didn't even know what those hints meant.

For example, when they were on that planet with the temple and Deanna saw the 5th Cylon, she said "Oh, I'm so sorry". I was so intrigued by that simple statement. Who was it? Why was she apologizing?? Turns out the writers had no clue who it was or why she said it. Lame.

+1

Not every show has to have everything figured out way in advance, but this one appeared to. The fact that they retconned one of the characters into an extremely significant plot point is pretty disappointing. If it was Law and Order or something I wouldn't really care.

The unfortunate part about that interview is that it confirms they were "making it up as they went along". Kind of lame.

Why is that lame? They probably had the core story figured out from beginning to end, but new ideas and new storytelling opportunities presented themselves during the course of the series. Can you imagine how boring it would be to have every plot for 4 seasons figured out ahead of time? Can you imagine how weak that show would be as a result?

I thought it was lame too. Only because since day one they have said there is a "master plan" and all the little hints along the way led us to believe there was some deeper meaning that would eventually be revealed. We know now that they didn't even know what those hints meant.

For example, when they were on that planet with the temple and Deanna saw the 5th Cylon, she said "Oh, I'm so sorry". I was so intrigued by that simple statement. Who was it? Why was she apologizing?? Turns out the writers had no clue who it was or why she said it. Lame.

I was thinking the same thing. I really didn't expect them to have everything worked out in advance, but when even the writers aren't sure if the things they are writing are supposed to be a red herrings or foreshadowing, there's probably a problem.

I can still enjoy the show in a "a wizard did it" sort of way, though.

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The unfortunate part about that interview is that it confirms they were "making it up as they went along". Kind of lame.

Why is that lame? They probably had the core story figured out from beginning to end, but new ideas and new storytelling opportunities presented themselves during the course of the series. Can you imagine how boring it would be to have every plot for 4 seasons figured out ahead of time? Can you imagine how weak that show would be as a result?

I thought it was lame too. Only because since day one they have said there is a "master plan" and all the little hints along the way led us to believe there was some deeper meaning that would eventually be revealed. We know now that they didn't even know what those hints meant.

For example, when they were on that planet with the temple and Deanna saw the 5th Cylon, she said "Oh, I'm so sorry". I was so intrigued by that simple statement. Who was it? Why was she apologizing?? Turns out the writers had no clue who it was or why she said it. Lame.

While my inner geek would probably prefer that all such creative works are mapped out start to finish (like Babylon 5), I've long since learned that it often doesn't work that way in almost an medium. Whether it's due to the harsh realities of scheduling (getting a series picked up and past pilot is hard enough so why expend the energy to map out multiple seasons), production realities (actors and writers come and go, network interference, etc) or just the funny way that the creative muse works (most creators want to be able to follow their inspiration and not be locked into a specific structure or events), it seems like more often than not there really is no master plan.

So really all I care about it some semblance of internal consistency and so far I'm satisfied with how BSG is handling things.

I never caught anything to make me think it was hinted at. Mind you, it all happened during the new-caprica void, so there was never any reason to believe that it could not have happened. However, I'd been wondering when they'd get to that - that Hera wasn't the only half-human, half-cylon hybrid. I guess that's your hint.

I'd have to disagree - I thought the episode was very important, and deeply thought provoking - all considering the ramifications of the events in Revelations. While as a viewer I can see that the alliance makes logical sense, I can also see that as a person who's life sucks and is living on that fleet - why would you ever accept any kind of alliance with the Cylons?

And it also had one intense scene between Felix and Kara. Watching Felix take center stage is very exciting. It also emphasized just how broken and battered everyone in this fleet is. Physically and Mentally.

But as a viewer - while I thought the episode was good, I also realize it was a 'bridge' episode, taking us to the final chapter of the story they want to tell. I'm very curious to find out where they're going with this, as I like the new direction. But at this point, it's difficult to comment on that individual episode. A random chapter in a story where nothing major happens.

I think we're going to start seeing some major deaths in the coming weeks.

So, no comments on Friday's episode? I guess it set up some big things to come (the Felix stuff), but I thought it was very slow for one of the last 10 episodes of the series.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Had they ever hinted about Callie's pregnancy before? I don't recall.

I feel the same way. It worries me that the 2nd episode in the season is used as a set-up or bridge or whatever. What a riveting scene with Adama brushing his teeth . If I didn't have so much time invested in this show in the earlier seasons I'd no longer be a viewer. To address your spoiler:

Spoiler for Hiden:

I'm sure they never hinted at it. As I've said, they're just making shit up as they go, so this is one more of those things that gets thrown out there.

To possibly give them some credit- there are only 10 episodes left, the are all shot and done, and I assume they were all written when they began filming the last 10 eps so.....

It was a weird scene tho....lots of brushing.

I remember someone saying-- if the prophecy was that the dying leader leads the people and assuming now it is NOT Roslyn, could it be Adama? His pill popping was noted as a possible hint as to his health...

Yeah all the focus on adama and stuff you can tell he's starting to give up. I quickly came to the same conclusion that adama could very well be the dying leader. It makes way more sense than roslyn actually.

I think the cally baby stuff was extremely important. remember back in season 1 when the cyclons were talking about creating a half breed between humans and cylons? that's why sharon and helo were stuck on that planet as part of the cylons plans. I was always wondering about the kid and why his half breedness was never addressed. So im glad they wrapped that up.

I was disappointed that we got nothing on starbuck either and a quick nod about ellen.

I think people would be less disappointed in this episode if they werent aware they was only 8 left. It was a good episode, but for the last few it left us with more questions and barely any answers.

So, no comments on Friday's episode? I guess it set up some big things to come (the Felix stuff), but I thought it was very slow for one of the last 10 episodes of the series.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Had they ever hinted about Callie's pregnancy before? I don't recall.

I feel the same way. It worries me that the 2nd episode in the season is used as a set-up or bridge or whatever. What a riveting scene with Adama brushing his teeth . If I didn't have so much time invested in this show in the earlier seasons I'd no longer be a viewer. To address your spoiler:

Spoiler for Hiden:

I'm sure they never hinted at it. As I've said, they're just making shit up as they go, so this is one more of those things that gets thrown out there.

Correction: they are making up SOME shit as they go.

Can you give us an example of a serialized continuity-heavy TV series where they DO have the whole thing plotted out perfectly from start to finish? I'd like to see what does live up to this shiny standard of yours.

Like the final four, while no doubt they didn't know exactly who the four (now five) would be, I'd bet money that they knew, from the very start, that the Five were going to be pretty high up there as well known characters. That's a plan, but leaving it more open for things like actors leaving, schedules, etc... I mean, what if they had planned for Billy to be one of the final five? He left the show and was written out, so where does that leave them?

Thought it was a great episode and I am really enjoying the decidedly darker tones of the last two episodes. Gotta stop reading in here now though as people are throwing out theories that i've not contemplated and I'm worried they're going to ruin the show for me.

All subjective, of course. The impression I get is that they mostly fumbled through the series without much of a plan. So I'd say they've made up most of it.

Quote

Can you give us an example of a serialized continuity-heavy TV series where they DO have the whole thing plotted out perfectly from start to finish? I'd like to see what does live up to this shiny standard of yours.

Where did I say I require a perfectly plotted out story from start of the series to the end? The problem isn't just that they're making shit up as they go along, it's that they're asking a ton of questions as they go along doing it. Some unanswered questions are just fine. But they have gotten into the realm of X-Files and Lost, where the questions are just empty because they ask so many and answer so few.

Quote from: Turtle on January 27, 2009, 12:37:01 AM

Like the final four, while no doubt they didn't know exactly who the four (now five) would be, I'd bet money that they knew, from the very start, that the Five were going to be pretty high up there as well known characters.

From the very start of the show? No, I don't think so. There's an interview here where Ronald D. Moore says:

Quote

At the beginning of the third season, Baltar had gone to live on the Cylon base ship for a string of episodes. And it was really that plot move that threw into relief -- well, once Baltarís over in the Cylon world, why wouldnít he see all 12 of them? How could we get around that and parcel that out? Then I had this idea, well, what if itís not random? What if thereís a meaning to the fact that we havenít seen the five of them? And thatís how the Final Five became part of the mythos.

Anyone else rooting for Felix and company? I've liked his character since the beginning always thought he was one of the "good" guys. With him trying to do the right thing, a cylon costs him his leg.

Starting a mutiny is taking things a little far (which then again makes the show so damn good!) but it's not hard to see why he has a grudge against the cylons and doesn't want them as part of their fleet. (They did after all, kill billions of humans!)

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"A gladiator does not fear death. He embraces it. Caresses it. Fucks it. Every time he enters the arena, he slides his cock into the mouth of the beast."

I'm guessing the series will wrap up with some sort of pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo, where all the characters who boldly did crazy shit due to their faith in the powa' of love or the wonder of kooky hallucinations are validated. And I'm fine with that. Realistically, though, the mutineers are acting pretty logically. Plus Pappy Adama just staged a military coup in the name of engine efficency. Mutiny would be looking pretty sweet to me right now, too.

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I hope this all ends with Gaeta getting spaced out an airlock. I have no sympathy for his character, at all.

Yeah I liked his character on Caprica but since the leg thing he's just too morose and emo to be likable. I can definitely sympathize with his feelings on the whole situation, but I find his actions and scheming in the shadows to be despicable. Plus he ordered the Raptor destroyed at the end of the episode, and I associate his actions with the guy who threatened to rape Sharon (which actually made me angry). And I just can't help but like Adama. I got chills when he was condemning the guys who took over the bridge.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I hope that was just a stun grenade they threw in at the end. I find it hard to believe that they'd kill off both those characters at this point.

I never watch those "next episode" segments so if they showed anything there, please spoiler it.

Adama hasn't exactly been an Angel throughout the series either. Prior to taking the VP into custody he told the marines if he refused deadly force was authorized. Anyone remember him ready to go through will killing the chief's wife?

That's what makes this show so good though, there are different sides to the story and some viewers will relate with certain characters than they will others. Personally I like Gaeta and if my leg was blown off by a cylon (not forgetting they also wiped out almost all of humanity) I'd feel uncomfortable with an alliance with our robot killers too. I think Sharon was OK though she's shown again and again where her loyalty lies, and it's with the humans. She even killed a cylon thinking they were trying to take her baby.

As we wind down to the last couple of episodes in the series I'm definitely feeling this is by far the best season and they saved the best for last. Even aside from the uneasy human/cylon alliance there's still another group of cylons out there who are hell bent on destroying the rest of humanity and they've been missing the last couple of episodes.. how much longer until they show up?

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"A gladiator does not fear death. He embraces it. Caresses it. Fucks it. Every time he enters the arena, he slides his cock into the mouth of the beast."

Yeah I never see the previews either. I think Tigh is going to sacrifice himself on the grenade. I really dont understand why they stayed behind if they feel like it was a suicide attempt. They could've easily gotten on the raptor. Yet they intend to die in that room. If their plan was to get the ship back I can see that, but the angle they kept playing was this is their last stand here and now. I was sort of expecting Lee and starbuck to show up and pop some caps off at that squad.

It was an awesome episode all around. When I saw the grenade go off and the to be continued I wanted to punch a baby. Oh another prediction Baltar tells roslyn what gaeta did during new caprica and it spreads in the fleet bringing the end of the mutiny. Or the quarom finds out and that brings the end. Either way you can tell baltar isn't going to like gaeta get away with that now.

Can you give us an example of a serialized continuity-heavy TV series where they DO have the whole thing plotted out perfectly from start to finish? I'd like to see what does live up to this shiny standard of yours.

Babylon 5 was pretty much exactly as you describe- to the point where he had specific exit strategies for each character in the even that an actor's contract didn't work out (as happened with an actress in Season 2). I've heard that the Wire was also pretty well mapped out too, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I do actually agree that the creators of BSG are just making it up as they go- Ron Moore's interviews and podcasts over the years have confirmed as much. But that isn't necessarily a strike as long as what they come up with hangs together reasonably well. I'm not the biggest BSG continuity fanatic out there but so far it seems like it meshes pretty well to me.

I thought Friday's episode was fantastic and one of the best of the series. I also will join the club wishing for Gaeta to go out of an airlock. I had a lot of sympathy for his character when he actually was just about to go out the airlock early in S3, but his actions in the most recent episode are rehensible IMO. Even if you condone his mutiny (I don't) he was far too willing to kill others in cold blood. I really hope Adama stands by his word about no forgiveness. I'll be pissed if they wrap up this arc with an "all is forgiven, we need to work together" tact.