How Did The Situation In Greece Get To Be So Bad?

A philosopher Baron, living in Greece, who wants to become a writer and philosopher. He has read all the works of Plato and many more. He is a staunch traditionalist and an Orthodox Christian. He really hopes for the restoration of the European culture. Last, but not least, he hopes that his controlled ramblings might become of interest to you and give a nice time!

Greece is the most surreal country in the world—its defying of logic can hardly be found anywhere else. It is a place where East meets West and the Greek people have adopted some of the worst qualities of both, but not even a single good one from each one. Greece is in no better situation than the rest of Europe, in fact under many cases it is in a much worse one.

The Ottoman Influence

The Fall of Byzantium and the Ottoman Conquest of Greece. The beginning of Greece’s Troubles.

This is the basis for the development of the modern Greek mind. Everything happened because the Ottoman Turks conquered the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium). That had a great impact because most scholars and a part of the nobility (from which most scholars came) fled to Europe. That meant that for the next 400 years there was no development of Greek thought and language—in truth, there was deterioration. The Greek language has lost many of its significant characteristics and most of its abilities in writing, even it’s highly articulated pronunciation that was fathered in the middle ages. The lack of competent scholars led to the not developing of the needed words for such conversation.

Political Apathy

Politically the problem was the influence of the devlet. The devlet is the oppressive Arabic state (dawlat in Arabic) that the Ottomans applied to their general governorship. The devlet created a servile, but unruly, character to any people that were ruled by it. In short the people have lost any political inclination, which made them expect only an economic relationship with the state. For this reason, Greeks politically are apathetic to any issue, except if it concerns their pockets, while having a tendency to rebel for any small issue but never for a serious one.

Phillo-Ottomanism

Surprisingly there was also the development of a Stockholm syndrome with the Ottomans by the neo-Orthodox school of thought in Greece. That was phillo-Ottomanism. The neo-Orthodox was a right-wing school with leanings to the church, whose most members were ex-socialist or ex-Marxists (or Trotskyists) or ex-communists (communism in Greece is Stalinist). These people believed that the Ottomans unwillingly helped the Greek people to develop their own culture on their own terms, making it unique! They consider that in the end it was a good thing that Greece was cut off from any European influence and developed a peasant culture. In conversations with commoners in the country, a simplified version of these beliefs is a frequent occurrence.

Greek Orientalism

This in time lead to Orientalism: In Greece people feel closer to Turks and Arabs than Europeans. In Greece culture was mostly imported: literature from France for a great part of the 20th century, music from the middle east and India, series from Turkey now in modern times. This phenomenon has led to the eradication of reason from the Greek mind. Greeks have only emotional reactions and their vindication towards political folly remains verbal. Also it is the reason why most Greeks shout for communication and are easy to pick a fight with.

Greek Marxism

Freedom-Bread-Education: the banner of the Greek Left

The only times when Greek scholars came to the right were in the beginning of the previous century, and all of them studied either in Germany, Russia, or Italy. The problem with them was that they did not write philosophy, only treatises on self-governorship or comments and funny articles on newspapers. Leftists though took complete control of academia and the culture in Greece. Everything had to be based upon their beliefs. In Greece public universities are geared to creating communists and anarchists from the 70’s, the Junta did not manage to remove them from these positions.

The only difference that has been noted from the 80’s is that the universities have become recruiting groundd for the two main parties, so they also produce Pasokists (now Syrizaists) and New Democratics (cuckconservatives) all in all it is mainly geared to leftism.

Feminized Culture

Literature in Greece survived in its Greek form by lowering its standards and mimicking the orient. Specifically it relied on overt expressions of emotion but with some sexual degeneracy to subsidize westernization. Series also took that road long before Turkish TV series appeared. Also, even the old Greek movies primarily based themselves on this formula. An interesting thing is that the 80’s were the last time Greece produced action oriented material through its cinema or its fledgling television. Later the complete takeover or sex-comedies and soap-operas dramatic series took place.

Far more importantly, in the country gun laws are some of the most restrictive in the world. For owning even a shotgun (a hunting gun here) a specific diploma is required, while self-defense is highly discouraged by the law. The problem though stands true even for the policemen, as they do not know when and how they are allowed to use their guns! Lastly in Greece the culture that surrounds the military is highly hostile. In fact, we do not want to have an army and many Greeks cannot even understand its use! This has led to its deterioration.

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A Lack Of Seriousness

All these point to the fact that in Greece nothing is taken seriously. Our borders, our economy, our defense, our culture, our religion, our education, our policing, near nothing is taken seriously… ‘til the excrement hits the fan. This is a product of Orientalism in Greece, but also points to another great problem. In this country the education system has been deteriorating for the last 30 years at least. Greeks do not learn even how to avoid mistakes with their language, not even in the universities. Journalists make juvenile mistakes in grammar, syntax, even inflection (Greek is a fusional language like German, or Russian, or Italian)!

Literate Illiteracy

This is the most important part: here you’ve got no choice. That’s it. The schools do not teach anything right. The teaching of Greek and history in schools is so bad that some parents teach these subjects to their kids themselves, to alleviate the effects. I need to point out that homeschooling was never legal here and won’t be legalized. I also need to underline the fact that boarding schools do not exist, while private schools are forced to have the exact same curriculum as the public ones. The only reason they exist is that they better look after the kids and control the courtyard.

This brings to a situation in which most people younger than 50 have at least a diploma, and on paper they should be of the most literate people in the world. When literacy is being counted they try to find how many books one person has read in his life—half of Greeks have read only one. Most works of economy, self-improvement, philosophy and politics are just out of reach for the vast majority, as relatively few works are being translated.

Greek “Nihilism”

Andreas Papandreou, still reigning from the dead.

After the fall of the junta in the mid-70’s Greece started a transformation to its political game. The two main parties could not support the changing paradigm, as a man came that awoke Greeks from their apathy. That man was Andreas Papandreou and his nemesis was Konstantinos Karamanlis, the bringer of democracy. These men were so popular at their time that in some cases holy icons were replaced by their portraits. In the end though the truly influential was the first.

Papandreou made Greeks actively vote on the promise of them being put to work in the public sector (they cannot fire you from it) and on giving them money from the economic EU handouts. He promoted also all the lifestyle magazines, which changed Greek culture dramatically during the 90’s when they became influential. In the end the average Greek cannot comprehend anything but: money, food and sex. These magazines required 10 years to see any significant success in Greece, but when that happened, with the help of PASOK on their start, Greece ceased to be a traditional society. Even worse politically if one wants to rule over Greece he cannot have the votes if he doesn’t follow the political paradigm of Papandreou. This makes Greek politics totally unable to adapt to any developing situation!

Political Holy Relics And Prideful Misery

This has led to the creation of political blasphemy. In Greece one may not touch the public sector, except the army and the police, due to our culture of constant rebellion. One may never touch public businesses, or sell public land. That is a problem because the public sector rarely manages anything properly. A good example is the “Elliniko,” a vast amount of land that used to be an airport 20 years ago. It has been left to rot ever since, and even the idea of giving it to an entrepreneur to make resorts is preposterous to the Greek mind.

Last many Greeks have some sort of pride in misery. If a Greek takes any service from the public sector and does not have money for the private, for some reason he takes pride in it. But it is not the pride like “my country gives healthcare to everyone” but “public services are much better than private ones.” That occurrence is personally referred also the “public medallion.” It is needed to point that wealthy leftists work always on the public sector, or develop close ties to it, and take all their services from the private one. For the ones working in the public sector, many of them figuratively beg politicians for a job with no prospects with the basic salary (500€ and you cannot support a family with it) and are proud for it.

Fads As The Only Motivation

This leads the final observation: after the fall of the junta there appeared, like from nowhere, democratism. The democratists were people who believed in democracy but from an anti-junta perspective. The junta said it valued three things: Fatherland, Religion and Family. The democratists preached against these while their believers were called fascists. In the end it was not a serious movement and in time it passed. The problem is that even the ones following did not really lived up to their beliefs, they were only preaching them.

Celebrating Misery, Lies and Corruption: The modern Greek youth has no idea. The image is from a SYRIZA rally

Today, that fad is anti-racism. While most “racists” will not suffer repercussions, as this will happen only if the incident goes to the news, it is a fad to support “refugees”. The fact is, no one wants to deal with them and everyone throws them to the next person, like a hot potato, so that he can deal with them.

This in time will pass, but it will leave many problems to be solved. Whether Greece is capable of solving them remains to be seen.

Greek problems go back over a thousand years. The Eastern Roman Emperors would maintain power by giving their supporters massive tax breaks. Over time, this led to almost the entire nobility “pronoia” exempt from paying taxes AND them owning a huge chunk of land. The Emperors never were very good at making the Orthodox Church or the Monasteries pay taxes, so it fell on the middle class. By the 1100s I believe, middle class people were selling themselves and their families into slavery, because at least they wouldn’t starve that way.

Not only is the economy a farcical mess – Greek people don’t pay taxes either, a tradition which goes back for hundreds of years.

Greek problems go back over a thousand years. The Eastern Roman Emperors
would maintain power by giving their supporters massive tax breaks.
Over time, this led to almost the entire nobility “pronoia” exempt from
paying taxes AND them owning a huge chunk of land.

A system that endures to this day in every American city and county. It’s a huge reason why my local major city is bankrupt.

“Crony Corporatism” is one Greek invention that did not need to withstand the test of time.

Before the pronoia and for most of Byzantine History were the Akritans. These were farmer-soldiers that defended the borders of the empire, most of the were in the middle-eastern parts and politically they were a nuisance as appeasing their demands, which stemed from their culture who was more Arab-like than Greek-like made the empire in the end week in defending itself against serious threat. The pronoia were a half-measure that came also too late, in the end it was a feudal like system but palatian-based, so it was corrupt from the beginning.

Interesting and exceptionally well thought-out piece. This is perhaps the best short summation on the Greek character that I’ve ever read. The writer really nailed it in a way that only a literate and cultured Greek can.

I’m married to the daughter of hardworking Greek immigrants (they left Greece in the 1960s). I’ve visited Greece several times and I’ve been surrounded by my wife’s family and friends for many years now. I’m a keen observer of them and their culture. I’ve read more than any of them on their own history and, over time, I think, I’ve developed a good sense of the Greek character. I couldn’t articulate it any better than the writer.

My wife is from the older stock rooted in faith, family and tradition. These Greeks are virtually extinct except for pockets here and there. Even rarer is the truly educated and literate Greek of that older stock. Occasionally you’ll meet one (I’d guess the writer is one) and, if you have that good fortune, they’ll leave an indelible impression. Mostly though, Greeks are just a rabble and the young ones are generally the worst.

Quite sad really but, make no mistake, Greece is simply the canary in the European coal mine. A petrie dish for progressivism. Aside from total economic collapse, the outcome will surely be the complete destruction of faith, family, culture and nation.

With all due respect to the author, I am not sure he provided an accurate viewpoint of Greece and or Greeks. While, I am ethnically Portuguese, I have been to Greece (Hellas) many times and have had a lot of exposure to their culture.

The current situation is Greece is rather straightforward. An arrogant, self serving group of elites sold their nation and their people out for financial and ideological gain. And Greece was going this direction post WW2, the junta in 60s was the last attempt to fight of globalist marxism but, after that there has been no resistance. What happened to Greece can and likely will happen to other nations. Greece was just a guinea pig for global Marxism. Today Greece, tomorrow Spain and so on and so on.

Also, I have yet to meet a Greek who identifies closer to an Arab than a European and Greeks are from being feminized relatively speaking. Obviously, this author hasnt spent much time in Sweden, Denmark or Japan. Also, Greece has a very noteworthy tradionalist, political party, Golden Dawn, which proves that there is serious resistance in Greece.

Greecehas become a low trust society and the only way to change that is to return to blood, and soil.

To be properly exposed to the culture you require to know the language also to which places you went? If for example you went to Crete or the Eptanisa (Zakinthos, Kerkyra, Ithaca, Kefalonia etc.) you will have a compeletely different idea about Greece because these areas were influenced by Venetians and have a more European like culture. Still though the vote left, especially Crete (probably the most traditional place in the country) always voted leftist, moving from Liberals of the 1910s to Pasok to Syriza. Need last to point that Greeks who know English are not a majority, if one speaks fluently he will identify as a European. Most people though do not know foreign languages or know the basic of English from these you will have Middle-east-philia.

The arrogant Greek elite was put in place by Greeks, that is what has happened. The Junta was the last regime that tried (unsuccessfully) to stop the spread of communism. Whatever it managed to do to Greece that was good (our economic advances, for example and the promotion of tradition, faith-family-fatherland) it did by not heeding Greeks. The problem with us, is that we were from the beginning a low trust people, the more authoritarian governments (Metaxas was the last great hope) tried to force us to become one.

Golden Dawn cannot pass a 12% in the elections it was an angry vote during 2012 now it is stuck to 7,5-8,3% this happens because there used to be a right wing party (LAOS) that betrayed its electorate during 2012 Golden dawn primarily takes its votes from that party, also after 2014 I think the party became emasculated by the Samaras Government. The German Pegida on the other hand by burning asylum homes does, sadly, much more job than what GD ever did. GD mostly attacked anarchists during protests and hunted down illegal aliens. That in the end did more damage to nationalism as in Greece there is a tendency to see the left as patriotic.

Greece is feminized by Greek standards, you won’t see things like in Sweden but you see many young men glued on their smartphones caring only about how they look, fitness and girls.

Can you tell me something about the views of people on Zakynthos? How is this place perceived from a Greeks point of view? Just generally how are the people, how do they vote, what is the culture like etc… This is the island that my ancestors are from. Facts about places are easy to find (wikipedia etc…), but general perceptions of regions are difficult.

I also come from Zakyntos, but do not live there, it is a beautiful island! Zakyntians as with most Eptanisiotes are Europeans, the lack most if not all inferiority complexes of the Greeks, tend to be polite, tend to use the language better and tend to be cultured. They may vote like the rest of the Greeks but the very least they always remain civil, THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Our music tends to be European and Italian in its nature:

note that mpouzouki is in lacking.

I can happily hear this but not Greek folk looks appears and feels too eastern and vulgar for some reason.

Last but not least old Zakynthians tended to be very respectful younger ones I do not know but I know from my grandmother some stories that nearly bring to me tears.

You must not say that the Regime of the Colonels did more good than bad for Greece. Just like it is forbidden to say in polite Western society that Franco and Pinochet did good for Spain and Chile. However, it seems to me that the Regime of the Colonels, despite its flaws, was a sincere effort to heal the Greek character and culture and, in many ways, it was succeeding. But of course, it wasn’t a democracy which we all know is the be-all and end-all of human flourishing. So now Greeks have their “democracy” and what are they really but slaves to the state?
I’m not knocking democracy but it can be a deeply flawed system that ultimately leads to collapse when it is applied to a culture and character that is not mature, cohesive and civilized.

Living in Greece I became a monarchists, Monarchy’s inherent flaws are far fewer than democracy’s and are more manageable, Greece is the place were all democratic flaws are open to exposure.

The worst thing that the junta did was that in the end it helped the push to the left happen faster by failing to keep control of the country, by its fall which made most greeks for 20 years anti-nationalistic.

In truth everyone here who cares even a bit about the country says that a foreign government or a new Junta is required for Greece to survive the decade!

In Greece there is no compulsory but “compulsory” no one will ever force you to vote but dare say that if you do not want to to friends or family they will try to correct you.

The abolishment of monarchy in Greece was successfull due to the stupidity of our king who we refer to him sarcastically as “Kokos” a short version of Konstantinos. If he had returned to Greece BEFORE Karamanlis he would have saved himself from the abolishment, in the end he was to fearful and decided to sent Karamanlis first to scout the area and then he would call him. Karamanlis seized the oportunity to get written into history books by calling for a referendum on the abolishment of monarchy.

The king though might try to return in the political landscape of Greece but I will not hold my breath he or his children could become an important oposition to the democratic powers here the very least. Sadly, Greeks have become so enthralled to the very idea of democracy that consider non-democratic governments as morally wrong on the principle that no one may ever be allowed to take decisions for other people.

This happens, to personal belief, because not only has democracy in Greece brought many problems and lead to a political dead-end but the people do not want to be held accountable for the selling of their country’s future generations. Even worse they know that a third of Greeks will not be able to subsidize themselves in a Monarchy due to their inherent irresponsibility and need for a state to remove competition around them.

Ah poor Brazil, saw a documentary about Rio de Janeiro the day when the olympics happened. From what beauty to what squalor, due to popular vote. The way the people of the city took in the portuegese king had me nearly in tears, and it was just a naration. Anyway that is the degeneration that democracy does. Hope though it is fixed and may our countries become again important, beautiful, with clean streets and centers of culture once more!

Yes Pasok ruined the country after the Junta with their cronyism and promotion of corrupt unionism. It is too deeply entrenched to change overnight. Too many people have their hands in the cookie jar and have no incentive to vote otherwise.

As a member of Golden Dawn myself I would say your assesment is incorrect. We never as a party “hunted down illegal immigrants and anarchists”. There were cases where we had conflicts with them over the years during demonstrations or things like this, but never have we set out to hunt these people down in some kind of planned organized manner.

Pegida is merely controlled opposition in Germany that has done absolutely nothing, and certainly not comparable to Golden Dawn. Their role is just to offer a slower destruction of Germany. Or a mixed race germany without radical muslims. It isn’t a natiomalist party.

Second the reason why Golden Dawn has stayed around this 10% mark is not so much to do with LAOS or even Samaras. It has to do that most Greeks still haven’t begun to suffer yet. They have “struggled” the last years, but not “suffered”. Meaning that rapes, murders at the hands of invaders are still relatively low. Most invaders haven’t yet been trapped permenantly in Greece yet. The average Greek still thinks this is an annoyance but not a threat to their wives being raped and sons being murdered. But tsipras “phase 2” is coming and that is when you will see the opportunistic soft Greeks beg for Golden Dawn to help them.

But until then it is much easier to not vote, or be psonio and philosophical at the kafetria saying “pote xana fasismos”.

No it is not, Metaxas had to force his ideas, many of which were deeply European to a part of the population. He wasn’t though delusional or sadistic, he also did allow the commies to be pardoned and be allowed to fight against the Italians even if he hated them. The opposite would never happen.

His main idea the birth of the third Greek civilization, one full of knowledge, like the ancients, and full of faith, like the Byzantines, was an ambitious plan that for its first phase to be complete 20 years were need the least for the new Greek elite to be formed, through the EON. Most people would not care for that and most of whom they care they would want to make sure this would not happen. That is the reason why Greeks tend to be highly alerted of social Darwinism, Metaxas’s system would never have allowed the modern situation to exist.

It’s very telling that people nowadays robotically think ill of Metaxas. But if you were to ask a Greek who does think ill of him why he does so, it would be something along the lines of “fascist”. But then no one really knows what “fascism” is, either….

Do not be so sure, the left wants to paint the situation more hopeless to us than it is, most illegals are men and won’t reproduce, that is why in the case of cologne they raped so many women. In Germany although most kids are of immigrant background, Europeans are counted there with Turks, in that group Turks are the biggest group, BUT NOT the majority.

Also in some European countries resistance parties become slowly powerful enough to pass their message and in the cases of Austria and Denmark (or the Netherlands) they manage to actively influence the main parties. In Germany AfD is close to being to that position.

I believe that if the Globalists were assure of their victory they would not have caused the migrant crisis, the reason is that illegal immigration would drown Europe in a few decades right now many people have been shocked by the “New Europeans”.

“Also in some European countries resistance parties become slowly powerful enough to pass their message and in the cases of Austria and Denmark (or the Netherlands) they manage to actively influence the main parties. In Germany AfD is close to being to that position”

I’ll believe it when I see it. And I will only accept proof in the form of policy changes of each country.

In Austria they built two border fences: one on the borders with Italy and the other with the Balkans, so that they would stop the migrants coming in. In Denmark or the Netherlands they practically steal from the migrants to house them (no that anyone should care for them), making the country a bad decision for migrants to go, Also they are working to ban mosques! Poland also does not accept Muslim migrants.

I’m not so sure that’s true. I know Portugal doesn’t have anything similar to Golden dawn and from my understanding from other Europeans neither does most of Western Europe ( Norway, Ireland, UK, Belgium being examples). Most of the European parties that the media categorizes as right wing are actually cuckservative parties very similar to America’s GOP.

GD has no chance for the time being to influence in anything the politics in Greece, exactly because it is so extreme, I have written a comment about it below:

“GD is too openly extreme for the average Greek to vote it. It might promote MANY right ideas but still remains deeply flawed, in truth the only difference I see between SYRIZA and GD is only the fact that GD is truly patriotic and against immigration of third-worlders to Greece. The problem with the pogrom against it after the murder of an antifa rapper by a Golden-Dawner (I am sure the hit was not planned or ordered) it scared many people from it and from nationalistic parties. Frankly if GD does not make some serious changes inside it, first and foremost a change of leadership with Kasidiaris replacing Mikhaloliakos as the head of the organisation there is nothing anymore to expect from it, sadly. Plus they need to remove Hitler portraits from their offices and replace them with portraits of Metaxas.”

These parties can appeal to the majority, and if they close their borders there is a chance to continues into deportations, GD besides its faults would be a better case than them, IF the people were not cucked it is one of the last steps in a ladder, and we are in the middle of it only.

Their whole economic program was based on the same principles and wishful thinking with SYRIZA, examples are that the Russians or the Chinese will lend us (they aren’t stupid, forced or suicidal) instead of the IMF or the EU with better conditions and if we make more taxes more money will be made for distribution etc. In Greece the 48% supports some form of Socialism and doesn’t care if there are enough money. The difference is that they are patriots and do not want third-worlders here.

Concerning the rapper it was just an altercation, he became known after his death. the media though made it for a professional hit, I remember that for a whole week the tv had only news for the murder, there were no shows and barely any commercials

We are self-interested in a purely economic and leisure-ful (take money enough for survival without much try) way. We do not care for illegals except when we will have to face them directly, for the damage they cause. Also we do not critisize the left, by what SYRIZA was doing during the first month a right government would have fallen already. That is also why we voted SYRIZA in even if their want to open the borders and call in “refugees” was already known, we are cucked, but not in the way most of the west is cucked. Also for the feminization of Greek culture think it in Greek terms then you may notice it.

Golden Dawn is indeed the real deal. I’m glad to see somebody bring them up around these parts. Wish we had a guy (like David Duke, who is currently running for US Senate) who was able to get up in front of Congress and the American people and talk like this.

I enjoyed him yelling and mocking the cuckboy standing on his chair at some point. Golden dawn is certainly an interesting phenomenon which I have changed my mind about. I no longer view them as the media wanted me to.

“Quite sad really but, make no mistake, Greece is simply the canary in the European coal mine. A petrie dish for progressivism. Aside from total economic collapse, the outcome will surely be the complete destruction of faith, family, culture and nation”

Thanks for your thoughts. It is sad because the hellinic culture did have an impact on Roman culture, which essentially was the part of the foundation to western europe. I also read, years ago, the Odyssey.

No, now I can see that you used the word correctly in English. It means “shop” (in the sense of a place where you buy things) in Russian so I thought that maybe it meant something different in Greek because I didn’t think simple magazines could have so much influence over a whole country. I’d say that TV has been the great corrupter of American society (for example, in how it portrays fathers). Have these magazines become websites now?

We Greeks used to be magazine-types, now we are more forum-types. Some few of these magazines survive as fora on the internet. Most of these periodicals though closed and bankrupt their owner.

The tv was influenced by those aforementioned magazines. Due to us still being that time quite traditional people the tv would not show something like that. Also private tv started to exist only at the last years of the 80’s and the public one could not have been influenced. The birth of trash culture required a few years still and it exploded during the 90’s.

Fathers have managed to escape criticism because when the trash culture exploded, figuratively EVERY movie that was made in Greece during the 90’s had to do with feminism, fathers raping their daughters in the villages women can do everything but still for some reason drool over men, it wasn’t just extreme it was also stupid. Normie culture got disqusted and demanded more down to earth things. If something happens is that children most of the time are portrayed as disobedient and that the problems of the couple (something to do about partners and sex but never overt) are mostly monopolizing the interest.

Magazine in Greek means shop but is pronounced as Magazi, there is a Greek word though katastima but you will not hear it commonly on the streets.

One need only look at Greece, Italy, and England to see that strong nations can and will decline to shadows of their former selves. America at its nadir paled in comparison to the accomplishments of these civilizations, and its decline is well on its way. To whom will the future belong?

Reagan may have had a Democratic Congress, but he had a very expansive type of leadership. Not at all the way Goldwater would have done things. Especially in all the foreign intervention nonsense and black op stuff, which has zero positive return to the American taxpayer and helped lead us to the police state we have today.

Reagan took on GHWB, who was a total neocon with undue influence over Reagan and was hellbent against the planks of Reagan’s platform. That was his biggest mistake.

Goldwater also had a “make bad deals with the lefties” style of governing as he was a flaming social liberal by the 80s and he threw his fellow Republicans under the bus to push it; Goldwater was more socially liberal in the 80s-90s than 0bama was in 2008.

The worst part of Goldwater is that he didn’t have anyone obviously strongarming him into his liberalism.

On a side note, if Goldwater had been the GOP nominee he, despite his flaming social liberalism, was still so despised by the left, right & neocons alike that they might have ruled that he couldn’t have run for POTUS due to the circumstances of his birth. That would’ve had the fringe benefits of preventing Bush/Gore and Lyin’ Ted.

Take the stereotypes of Black and Jewish women, combine them, and then multiply times 10. They’re the craziest group I’ve ever met. Life is one giant shit-test. Had a taxi driver nearly break down mentally on me from the airport. I can understand why the men fuck kids and each other. I wouldn’t want to deal with the women either.

Jesus Christ ! I have never been to Greece . I have never met a greek (men or women ) in my life . But once a freidn told me that Greek women are worst and very controlling . I thought he was one single person . But it seems like he was right .

I need to make two corrections: take a Jewess and an American woman, remove the 5% of their worst excesses and all their good characteristics, combine them multiply what remains 10 times. That is the Greek woman.

Greek men mostly play with their friend, the situation is so bad that the word malakas (masturbator) is no longer a slur (‘xcept when used as stupid) but a title that brings pride! That is also the reason why many Greeks turn to try to marry European immigrant women (most common Russians, Ukrainians, Romanians and Serbs, with German women the most common of the rare cases). The one whole life shit test is true and even worse most women do not even have an idea of what they want.

The commonality of those marriages I found by grandfather who needs newspapers as much as air and by Greek law through them people need to announce their marriages. The one fourth are with foreigners. Women for some reason when they marry foreign men they for the vast majority of these rare cases are middle eastern!

As a Turk who worked with Greeks for some time,i can only say that Greece is Turkey(and Turkey is Greece),but with churches instead of Mosques.
Simple as that.

Oh and scholars left to europe when constantinople was conquered.So its absurd for you to say *oh ottomans got greece,so all our scholars escaped to europe*.
About language:
if any other country ruled greece for such a long period time,you would speak their language.
Example?
Why half of africa speaks french(even the caribbean ones),or every ex english colony speaks english? But for some *weird* reason,all ex ottoman empire countries have their own language.

Its normal that there will be differences in language.Turkish we speak is VERY different than 50 years ago(even turkish spoken by immigrants in germany is very different).Same goes to english.Old english is very different as well.
And you expected greek language to be the same like 1600’s?

Actually i felt like im reading about Turkey while reading this article.

Edit:Relationship between Greece and Turkey should be extremely strong since we do have A LOT of similarities,especially how we think.Both countries are very similar and yet there is a stupid(and meaningless) hostility even after 100 years passed.
Both countries would prosper GREATLY if they increase their relationship to each other.Especially in an economical way.

When I went to Greece for the first time, I was kinda confused about the food. Everything they were selling was Turkish food with a different (and sometimes same) name. Might as well have been back in the Middle East.

If you start off by yapping bullshit, what’s next in line can only be more…bullshit.

,,Oh and scholars left to europe when constantinople was conquered.”

,,Scholars left to europe when constantinople was conquered”.
You talk about the conquering of Tarigrad i.e. Constantinople like it was a walk in the park or some diplomatic agreement that suddenly changed the pinnacle of Eastern Christianity and the embodyment of the Church of Christ into an area filled up with Mosques.
Looks like there is nothing to it wright ?

Jesus Christ, how can you lying fucks be tolerated any longer.

THE TURKS MASSACRED GREECE & ARMENIA.
THEY MASSACRED MILLIONS ETHNIC GREEKS AND ARMENIANS, including the fucking scholars you fuck !

Your history is one of a murderous nation not of a angelic muslim.
Learn it.

*THE TURKS MASSACRED GREECE & ARMENIA.
THEY MASSACRED MILLIONS ETHNIC GREEKS AND ARMENIANS, including the fucking scholars you fuck !*
your proof is?
Last time i checked,turkish archives are completely open for research about these issues.On top of that,son of a bitch president erdogan even offered a joint team of historians to check records of russian-turkish and armenian archives.
Armenians said no.
A bit fishy,isnt it?

You are full of hatred and i feel sorry for you.Therefore i wont waste my time discussing it any longer since you are acting just like an erdogan supporter.

Full of hatred yes, but not of ethnics, but of ignorance.
Please try to understand the difference, my kebab loving friend.

From your point of view, how would you describe the siege and plundering of a famous Christian city ( perhaps the most famous at the time ) by a massed armed muslim force ( driven strictly by religionary hatred) ?

Jut like british empire’s expansion to literally everywhere in the world,or spanish empire’s expansion to mesoamerica(which they destroyed PRICELESS artifacts).

Empires need to grow in order to survive,thats how they become empires.

If there is a religious hatred like you say,then how come there was religious minorities in the empire and they were literally *massively* rich? I can give you an example about their richness;Jewish businessman offered one of the sultans to REMOVE all the empire’s debts in exchange of giving them Israel.This has happened during a period of an empire where they got whole bunch of loans from the europeans.
Couple businessman has enough money to pay off all the debts of a massive empire?
The records are in Israel and Istanbul about this event.

In the empire,armenians were artisans(we still have old masters in grand bazaar who teach jewellery to youngesters),jews and greeks took care of the international trade.As a matter of fact,in most towns in eastern turkey,the MAJORITY of the population was greeks.

Oh and religious minorities were NEVER called for war.Muslim peasants took care of the matters regarding war(sending infantry,breeding horses,etc).

As a proof of the richness of religious minorities in the empire,you can check the famous palaces and villas in Turkey.All of them are owned either greeks,jews or armenians.Heck the jeweler who gave famous jewellery pieces to the court was an armenian family!

And i would like to give another example to *religious hatred*;Suleiman the Magnificent saved thousands of sephardic jews from spanish hands since they were about to be massacred.

Also turkish diplomats saved a lot of jews from the hands of nazi’s by giving them turkish passports.There is even a movie about it called *turkish passport*.My grandfather personally saved about 40 of them(and he’s a diplomat).

*From your point of view, how would you describe the siege and plundering
of a famous Christian city ( perhaps the most famous at the time )*

Some historical events took place there:*The Massacre of the Latins (Italian: Massacro dei Latini; Greek: Σφαγή τῶν Λατίνων), a large-scale massacre of the Roman Catholic or “Latin” inhabitants of Constantinople by the Eastern Orthodox population of the city in May 1182*.

There is no such thing as *white race continent*.If there is,please answer these;

Tell me,What the fuck are *white* people doing in africa,or latin america?
Latin america were once owned by their own civilisations(aztec,maya,inca vs),and africa by black people.
Or what the fuck white people doing in India,vietnam war,etc?

You will get the same answer,expansion of the empire.Unfortunately by all means necessary.

I agree in part of what you are saying but it is only one way. Turks are like Greeks because they have Greek blood in them and many of them (especially the anatolians) were initially Greeks that converted to Islam and were completely turkified over the years. The Greeks never married turkish women the years of the ottoman rule but the Turks married Greek women. Also do not forget the Jenisaries which were warriors from conquered lands that became Turks.

Now about the language: Greek language has changed but not so much. It is really easy for a modern Greek to read and understand Koine Greek, which is the language of the gospels that was written in 1st and 2nd Century AD.

The initial conquest of anatolia started with the turkish(their eyes was similar to asians,you can see them in ex soviet republics in middle asia) nomads who conquered the place and intermarried with the locals there.
Therefore,according to DNA research,most of the people who live in Turkey right now has greek,armenian,georgian,arabic etc. genes.
I cant really believe what you say about *greeks never married turkish women*.I live in an ex greek town very close to mytilene and there are whole bunch of greek woman+turkish guy marriages.
Yep,janissaries were like that.

The Turks that live in Anatolia and Asia minor are similar to the Greeks. The original Turks though have very different features more Asian ( mongolian) than European (caucasian). This makes sense because before the Turks came to Asia minor, there was local population (Greeks, Armenians, Pontians, Cappadocians, Kurds). that gradually assimilated with the turks.

Of course , I am refering to the past up until the Greek revolution. Greek intermarriages with Turks was something really rare then. In modern times, this has changed but it happens with all other races too because of globalism

11 million Greeks vs. 80 million Turks. Turkey has a bigger population that all of the Balkan nations combined and is close to that of Germany. Greece is all but a province of Turkey — it’s certainly closer to the Turkish centers of power than to Brussels. I think Greeks never got over their inferiority complex. There may be potential for some economic specialization to make themselves more valuable but it doesn’t seem the Greeks are up to the task.

The reason is that the Ottomans were a very lazy bunch and descendants of a nomad culture with no original culture to speak of. The music, the architecture and even combative arts were conducted by the Europeans from the Balkans.

Higher culture absorbs lower, not the other way around.

For example, the mosques architecture is a typical Byzantine architecture minus the minarets. So is the music. I play some Byzantine music to friends and they all think is Turkish music.

Plus to my ear, the Turkish language is the ugliest sounding one in the world. So thank God, it did not spread.

Also it has common ancestor with korean,finnish and estonian.
We arent discussing how *ugly* the language sounds like.Its just a matter of opinion.Obviously you didnt get my point there.
Unfortunately,there are way too much hatred,so i refuse to explain even more since you guys wont even understand.
Just like Erdogan supporters.

The Greek education system is so poor that middle class parents rely heavily on tutors, and most of these tutors are slack public school teachers who do very little work during the day and make a killing at night. It’s a complete joke.

As for feminization, I didn’t get the impression that Greece was anywhere near as ‘feminized’ as other places, but I haven’t been there in almost a decade. Old habits die hard though.

The seriousness thing is interesting. Greeks are more open to talking about ‘serious’ things like politics, but they are very casual when it comes to their day-to-day life. They don’t realise problems until shit hits the fan because they are obsessed with drama. Unless something is expressed directly to them, right in their face, they will miss its significance.

They also have a serious discipline problem. The boomers rebelled against their strict parents and let their children run wild and free. The Gen X’s are even more lax and liberal with parenting.

I wanted to pinpoint most of the cultural problems that exist here, the IMF is more of a symptom, rather than a cause. If the first IMF program was followed in hand now we would have been free from it, as most countries in Europe that entered it. The problem is that the changes that need to be done concerning the laws and the public sector are impossible to be made, so the only thing that remains are taxes. Which do not work.

,,The Fall of Byzantium and the Ottoman Conquest of Greece. The beginning of Greece’s Troubles.”

How about rephrasing that to ,,The secular genocide and ethnic cleansing of ethnic greeks, ethnic armenians, ethnic romanians in the teritories now known as Istanbul, Greece & Bulgaria due to the islamic invasion of the Ottoman Empire.”

Today’s Turkey is double the size it once was because of ethnic genocide in the orders of tens of millions of men, women, children, priests, teachers, military leaders.

Murdering the culture that was part of the Byzantin Empire of the Church of Christ.

What Turkey did, is worthy of a Little Boy.
The same goes for Russia.

Both these countries have something in extreme common = the fight agains Christianity and Christian values.

Those motherfuckers created the shit situation that the West finds itself in and you guys sit around on armchairs saying that ,,strong nations can and will decline to shadows of their former selves. ”

The kgb methods of destabilizing America is by DEMORALIZING THE NATION.

Congradulations, fellow ROK members, you have indeed been demoralized.

Simmer down mate and let’s have a civilised discussion. It happened in the past and that’s that. Don’t see the ottomans attacking any of the countries youtside mentioned, nowadays.
You shouting won’t change a goddamn thing about the past.

You are correct about the the tone, it doesn’t bring any honor to the table.
The idea is that I believe that the past needs to be absolutely known in every perspective and detail we have, in order to asses it correctly and to say with conviction that ,,we know history”.
That is not the case.

Islamic invasion is taking place nowadays and has been for some years now.
Countries neighbouring Europe are doing what they’ve always done, seeking to conquer it.

Only that they never collaborated to such a psychological level as they do today.
Place several agents in leadership points.
Envelop the infantry as ,,refugees”.

What I’m trying to say is, with proof that the whole operation stinks of sovietic modus operandi is that Turkey & Russia are fucking with Europe. Majorly.

And while the ethnic populations are being fucked with, extreme demoralization is being pushed into the mass ethnic population to stop fighting and to stop breeding.

A total new type of warfare.
Not only are we psychologically fucked, we are also being demoralized along the way and constantly duked.

Wouldn’t go as far and blame it on Russia but I would blame it on a fraction of the American elites (and British too) who hAve a habit of creating problems and then providing a loan to Europe. ‘Member Ww2?

With all do respect, I recommend you start reading up about how the WW2 ended concerning the soviets. How they took complete control over half of Germany, turning into a complete soviet state. The rapes of german women, the murders of german men, the killing of children, the mass-suicides of german young women…The complete sovietization of Germany and calling it……………The Democratic Republic of Germany.
I would rather leave the Poland part and Romanian part to the ethnics themselves to better educate us. For what it’s worth, Russia is part to blame for the islamic invasion.

Ask yourself, who invited the sandpeople to Europe?
Who helped the sand people with training, maps, money and transport to march into Europe?

Rape was bad, so bad in fact that i suspect that Straight Alpha is a Soviet rape baby.
I would say that the ME countries and the ‘liberal’ elites are funding the invasion so that any resulting terrorist attacks would be used as justification to attack our right.

You are right about the demoralization of the West. The logic is simple: break their families and their religion and make them feel privileged. This will make them weak and in a “debt” mentality towards the rest of the World. But, these globalist bastards dont know the power of History. There is a reason why eastern european nations, are so against the turks joining the EU.
They know, what that means with millions of more muslims, these ones, with a even greater imperialistic ambition flooding Europe and reviving old tensions of pass progroms. It was not only the armenians that suffered under the otomans, the bulgarians, the greeks, the austrians, the serbs, the hungarians…

And they will suffer still, because the enemy is cloaking it’s operations and it’s agents.

Anyone with a fucking brain can understand that hoards of men can not cross a country (Turkey) without help from the authorities. But about planned of great masses of hoards ( the hundreds of thousands in numbers ) – how do you call that ?

I call that a breaching of national and continental security.

I call that an act of war cloaked as a suffrage in helping hoards of sand-people.
Tolerance will soon have no more value.

“Apathy and tolerance are the last virtues of a dying society” Aristotle.

Is all about jihad. Muslims have been doing that since Muhammad conquered Arabia and it only stopped for a brief moment in History when the West got so powerful it even controlled muslims lands. Now, with the demographic changes and with the oil of the House of Saud, its all over again.

No, the Pythagorean theorem was found from the Pythagoreans and it is attributed to him, but because I read what Pythagoreans wrote, he remains an enigmatic personality, deified, his story speaks even of miracles! Also godly powers were attributed to him. He is closer to Christ than any other mathematician that existed!

Great article. As a Greek, I can confirm most of what is being written here. My only objection is about the language. you write: “The Greek language has lost many of its significant characteristics and most of its abilities in writing, even it’s highly articulated pronunciation that was fathered in the middle ages.”

Yes the musical pronunciation of the language deteriorated years before (in the Roman Empire era) when Koine Greek became a universal language. (The Cypriot and Pontiac dialects still have some of it) In fact, modern Greek in a direct descendant of Koine Greek. However, modern Greek language is still pretty much the same. Has not changed too much and that is why a modern Greek can understand almost fully the language of the gospels (which is written in Koine Greek by the 1st and 2nd century AD). Now can a modern English native speaker understand or read old English of the 13th-14th Century? I doubt…

Correct, I emphasized in the article, the problems are the loss of the dative case and the simplification of the verbs, it is not though to the point of being unrecognizable, but most young Greeks will not understand the gospels sadly, although that might be because they did not learn the language correct in the first place + their notorius laziness.

I’ve had a long time question about the modern Greeks … are they are direct descendants of the ancients or was there a large Slavic influx in the Middle Ages (or whenever) that more or less diluted the original peoples of the Greek peninsula beyond recognition? I’ve heard various opinions about this. Online sources only sow more confusion. I mean, they look a lot like Slavs (NTTAWWT … they could use some of the Serbian attitude) and not much like ancient depictions in art (which may be overly idealistic, but still.)

I do not understand why the identity of Greeks is always in question…Have you ever questioned if modern English men are direct descendants of the ancient ones ? (like britons or anglosaxos etc) because as i know, England was conquered by Normans in 11th-century…. Have you ever questioned if modern Italians are direct descendants of Romans? Because as i know, western Romans were partially conquered by the goths in the 5th Century. Have you ever questioned if modern French were direct descendants of Gauls or Franks or whatever? Why it is but Greeks that are questioned about their identity? There are many reasons about that and there is a lot of bias that started this even before the Roman Empire fell to the Ottoman and i would not explain it further. However, i will answer your question.

Yes modern Greeks are the direct descendants of ancient Greeks and there is no need to make DNA test to prove this (EIther way they have done tests found almost 100% similarity). The spoken language can answer this question easily… The language spoken by modern Greeks is the evolution of the Greek that was spoken by Ancient Greeks. Actually, it is a variation of the Koine Greek that was spoken in the Hellenistic era at around 1st and 2nd Century AD (This is the language that the new testament was written). In contrast, modern English are very different in comparison with the ancient (medieval) english. Modern Italian, Spanish and French have all the same similarities with the original latin which are not too many in comparison. So, I would dare to claim that because of the Roman Empire (or “Byzantine”) being unconquered for over 1.000 years , Greeks managed to maintain their language and customs and ethnic identity almost intact over the centuries.

I know only modern Greek but i can easily read and partially understand ancient Greek texts. Recently, i was reading “τα εις ευατoν”- meditations the book written by the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius in ancient Greek.

Of course they were many changes over the years but ethnic identity, language, customs and traditions were pretty much preserved. The biggest difference of ancient Greeks with modern Greeks is religion. The Greeks of 1st and 2nd Century AD converted to Christianity which later on became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Also, the Greeks by the time of the Roman (Byzantine) empire called themselves Roman and not Greek, because Greek meant to believe in pagan gods. The original Greek name reappeared and find use after the Greek war of independence when the new Greek state was created in 1831.

I use the theory used by Paparigopoulos and was based on the one by Fallmerayer.

Some Greeks are direct descendants of the ancient but there was a great Slavic influx but that did not dilute in the end the DNA beyond recognition. The problem was with the Turk, some Greeks, personally I believe that this is characteristic of only the 1/3, is dilluted by turkic and arabic admixtures, not thought to the point that they cannot be recognized as Greeks. The problem with them is that they cannot handle the Greek civilization. By taking also the worst of the european stock of Greeks they manage to deconstruct Greek identity and turn closest to the east.

So in general there are two Greeces: a European made by people of european origin (of ancient Greek origin and slavic) wo have a Greek culture and ARE able to keep the civ alive, and a Middle-Eastern one who are made by people with middle-eastern influences in their blood plus the lowliest of europeans (specific the lowliest of workers), who cannot keep the civ.

By democracy the second wins and slowly the european stock, all of it, will have to leave the country, except if it gets enforced over the middle eastern.

Read it ’till the middle, absurd, it is true though that Germans became maniacs about ancient Greek culture. Also it is true that in Greece there were many foreign european population, but most spake a form of Greek with the exception of Thrace which was Slavic where it weren’t Turkic (I am not proud of this, by killing the Slavs the place became Greek and intermarrying the women with Greek soldiers, which was a common tactic at the era, for some reason though we allowed the Turks! The Slavs at the very least were Christian Orthodox and European).

The majority of Greece though still had: a Greek culture (many of our customs are ancients like the koudounades, link at the end), spake Greek dialects and had Christian faith. The fact that existed many foreigners who were Christian Europeans from the Balkans mostly and interwed into Greek house holds does not change that fact. That was what Fallmerayer said and Paparigopoulos agreed. for our neighboring countris

Also, there are many people in Greece, ALL OF THEM leftists who say that modern Greece does not exist, probably because they come from lower stocks and cannot keep the Greek civ. We are the only European country that hates itself in the American way.

Last but not least because you used a “Macedonian” site: How the “Macedons” explain that albeit being majority Slavic and the ancient Macedons spake Greek their language is very akin to church Slavonic?

Thank you though, for your comment!

the link to the ancient custom:

It is from the pagan times but was absorbed to Christianity during the middle ages.

And we all know that the expression ‘anti-racism’ is a code word for anti-white. And if the fad in Greece as well as Europe is anti-white, then one has to wonder really if it makes sense for any white guy to be wasting his time in Western Europe trying to get with european women.

Good post brother! I believe that Greece is where the future of Western Civilization will be played and decided, namely of Europe, from the globalist scam on the Greek people, the evil of marxism and how we, Europeans, are going to deal with the influx of people from around the world. Greece is simply on the front line.

Stockholm syndrom after 400 years of occupation.
Also huge influence from Turkish music in the last 100 years and lately TV
Few Greeks are truly ‘open’ to the Western World and many (like me) buggered off a long time ago.

Rome still has Stockholm syndrome about persecuting the jews….it’s called Christianity. Every day in the Vatican a bunch of people still get on their knees and beg statues of jews for forgiveness. 400 years is a spit in the ocean.

Also it is CRUCIAL to point that if anyone wants a little more insight these articles about the Greek crisis that are in counter-currents, written by the owner of the blog I used to write in Greek are quite accurate:

“The more educated one is the more narrow-minded
and dogmatic he is”That is GOLD and it is the reason
why over-education is so much pushed by the Left World-Wide!

Also the quote from Aristotle (there is nothing more unequal that the equalizing of the unequeals) I was just reading that from the Nicomachean ethics yesterday!

The comment about the teachings of race in the Greek educational system that aims in the creation of world citizens is spot on! Also the same with the critique of parliamentary democracy!Although

I agree that the natural selection was used to derail the religious feeling, I do not agree on it being a lie, it is true BUT it is only a mechanism of God’s constant creation. Also, the belief that men came from chimpanzees has been disproved men came from
a specific ape which had a common ancestor with the other apes and from the time it appeared it was destined to either become extinct or to become man.

The chimp is pushed as with the belief of this outdated theory makes man an animal and this is the needed basis for relativistic (modern) ethics. Also, if Darwin’s theory was really pushed people would at least be able to differentiate between higher and lower human types

The quote of Orwell that you used, that in any system there is an orthodoxy of ideas that is needed to be believed by every logical human, is one of the most insightful ones that exist upon the study of social signaling.

Lastly, your writing was quite good, to perfect you only need to drop self-reference, it makes the text appear too specific, so many people will distance themselves from your observation subconsciously.

Thank you very much for your kind words Varone. I did not expected a full on answer, i just thought you might find it interesting or thought provoking. I am glad you like it.

I am not sure if theory of evolution is true or false, i am just pinpointing it is not a proven fact so it is just a theory (that conveniently is pushed by the establishment to erase GOD from our societies) which maybe is truthfull or not .

These are my first attempts at writing and blogging, so i am still trying to shape my writing style and of course there are syntactic and grammatic errors that i need to work on. I think there is a lack of truthfull Greek blogs and sites out there, that is why i made this attempt. Maybe this information would be usefull to some people. You should try to write something in Greek too. I think you got some interesting ideas to share with people.

Also, I nearly forgot: if you want to improve your technique in writing, the best books on that are: “The Art of Fiction: a Guide for Writers and Readers” and “The Art of Nonfiction: Its Theory and Practice” by Ayn Rand. Although methinks the first book is the better one, the insights about how one should write are amazing! In the second book though, while much better for writing articles she over-pushes to you her theory on objectivism and this can get irritating but the advice is sound. These books will not teach how to write like her that is why they are good.

I am a Greek American who lived in Greece for many years and I would say most of this is accurate. I will only add that they dont take things seriously because they have for the last 40 years never had consequences for anything. But that will change very soon. A harsh and brutal reality of the violent outside world.

Sounds like Greece has been victimized by the same International Cosmopolitans who have been busy wrecking the entire White West. All of the things you describe are taken straight out of the Frankfurt School and Tavistock Institute, where groups of international communist Jews plotted how to overthrow pro-Western governments and replace them with client states. They work on the women first, since women are very easily duped. Soon, the Slave Morality has infected the majority of your country, and there is no way out of the trap except through horrific war and bloodshed. If it makes you feel any better, the other Western nations are right there in the same boat.

The “anti-racist” fad you describe is merely the precursor to the coming “miscegenation fad”. Straight out of the (((playbook))). First you convince White women that racism is a terrible evil, worse than murder. Then you convince them that they are inherently guilty for all the suffering of the non-Whites in the world. And finally, you teach them that the only way to atone for their horrible sins is to reject White men and procreate with the invading muds.

It has been played out exactly like this in dozens of countries. If you don’t already see it, look for your (((mass media))) to start promoting endless images of Greek women with Turkish and Muslim men.

This is a very old game, and the players have been the same for thousands of years.

really informative article. It is hard for a non-greek to understand how greece went from cradle of democracy, philosophy and rational thought to what it is today. At some point surely the greeks must have a renaissance of some kind. Surely they must

After the fall of the Roman (Byzantine) empire, Greece never gained it’s former glory and power. Actually, only the first governor of Greece, Ioannis Kapodistrias, tried to create a strong independent nation after the Greek war of independence but sadly he was assassinated before he could finish his work. After him, Greek state was and still is essentially a puppet state of the western powers.

haha. ouzi or ouzo. I actually thought a lot of Greeks were like their nearby neighbors in the Balkans and owned guns.When I visited Greece I noticed there was bugger all wildlife, and asked someone how come its so quiet even with the birds and he said if it moves the Greeks will shoot it, so I thought gun ownership was big.

For a country that does not have a big army and has been invaded in the past and has national service, I’m really surprised it does not encourage an armed population.

There are some places were the law on guns does not apply (due to regional tradition) : these are Crete and Mani as as I know, but the big cities and the biggest part of what remains gun ownership is near-non-existent.

GD is too openly extreme for the average Greek to vote it. It might promote MANY right ideas but still remains deeply flawed, in truth the only difference I see between SYRIZA and GD is only the fact that GD is truly patriotic and against immigration of third-worlders to Greece. The problem with the pogrom against it after the murder of an antifa rapper by a Golden-Dawner (I am sure the hit was not planned or ordered) it scared many people from it and from nationalistic parties. Frankly if GD does not make some serious changes inside it, first and foremost a change of leadership with Kasidiaris replacing Mikhaloliakos as the head of the organisation there is nothing anymore to expect from it, sadly. Plus they need to remove Hitler portraits from their offices and replace them with portraits of Metaxas.

Nice insights about GD. Exactly what i was thinking… The have to seriously tone down some of their ideas and disassociate completely with the national socialism ideology (which is by no means bad but it has been demonized for years by the media) if they want to gain more popularity. Sadly, the Greek population is divided and it clings more to leftism at the moment so it would be really hard for them to gain more voters than they currently have.

From what Plato used to say, probably Greeks were in general more akeen to leftism from the ancient times. That is why maybe they needed strict military type governments, like the one Sparta had to keep them under control. GD needs to better take metaxas though, for one more reason: NS was founded in Germany and its economic plans were about a higly industrialised country with a law-abiding people. Greece is more agricultural and most people try to avoid paying their taxes, Metaxas made and ideology fit for Greece, that up to a point still applies today.

Leftism is the biggest ‘dead weight’ in Greece imo.
It grew to a monstrous size after the socialist win in 1981 and it still reigns supreme even after they bankrupted the country.
Of course they blame the Germans/Americans/Right/Capitalism etc.

I would also include low IQ into the mix.
Millenia of interbreeding with slaves from the E.Mediterranean has left its mark.
Are you on Twitter Baron?

“Millenia of interbreeding with slaves from the E.Mediterranean”…This is completely false. Interbreeding is something realatively new for the Greek society. Maybe 50 years or so, when globalism and modernity prevailed. Historically it never happened in large scale even after the conquest of Greece by the ottomans.

Also, it is not about low IQ but rather about am extremely selfishness attitute (that is now more eminent than ever because of the introduction of a decadent western type way of living especially after 1980) and a hatred for each other. Historically, Civil wars are something that characterizes Greek mentality. (The peloponnesean war, the wars of diadochi, the wars between byzantine emperors, the civil wars of the Greek war of independence, the civil war between royal army and greek communists and so on…).
So in order to control the Greeks, the wisest thing to do is to make them fight each other

Why is greece, a country overflowing with natural beauty, breathtaking islands and beaches; in such a miserable state?

The answer to this is clear: Living above its means for decades.

The greek people do not work like germans do. The greeks do not produce like the chinese do. The greeks do not have the strongest banking and army cartell like the americans do. The greek do not even have a queen like the english do. Nor the natural resources from russia or brazil. None of the above.

But yet they had their standard of living and a median income rising constantly over the past 15+ years until the crysis hit them out of the blue. Socialist dream-topia bubble burst.

I did some numbers crunching and surprise, surprise the greek STILL even in this depressed state are living a too high standard of living compared to what their parents had *** WHILE AT THE SAME TIME STILL HAVING THE SAME OR LOWER OUTPUT PER CAPITA *** or in short:

The greek are still as productive (or lazy) as there parents or grandparents were but want to live at much better life.

As long as they need bulgarians to harvest their olives you know the greek people are still overpaid.

Are you being serious? Everything you mentioned above is the media propaganda that had attacked Greece for years in order to shift the blame to the people and excuse themselves for applying the austerity measures that ironically destroy the economy in the first place. Yes they created a socialist bubble by flooding the economy with “free money” but this was planned years before it happened and it was a well orchestrated plan. It has nothing to do with “living above its means”… The debt crisis is a manufactured crisis. They have done the same thing to other countries like Argentina, Ecuador or Mexico in order to exploit their natural resources.
Also this article is not about the Greek economy but rather about the modern social and political status of Greece in general. A friendly note: Make your research before you post such ignorant comments.

“debt crisis is a manufactured” – You can not manufacture a debt crisis when there is no debt. The greek did go into debt to consume, just like the people in argentina did.

It is all the same story. Politicians promise retirement after 20 years in the public sector. 8 weeks of vacation and 16 salaries per year. They get elected and fund all this nonsene with debt.

Endless sea of debt. Prosperity from spending. Bullshit like this. And the stupid masses (including naive people like yourself) believe all the lies and dont think twice where all the new cars and nice houses came from. Then one day, the bubble burst.

It was the global elites! Those evil, greedy banks now want their money back…or at least some of it…or at least refuse to give us more because we never pay anything back….so we vote for even MORE goverment. Get real. I understand this is difficult if you only had public education but realllllly it is the only way.

Nice comment Maldek. I think you misunderstood me… When i say manufactured debt crisis, i mean that the whole thing was a scam from the get go. Of course Greek people did go into debt to consume. Of course they fell to the trap just like other countries did. (Do not forget that almost all european countries are in the same debt. Take for example Italy, Spain or Portugal) And this happened gradually because the corrupted Greek goverments flooded the market with loaned paper money. Then they closed all the productive private businesses and in their place they expanded the public sector and increased salaries. The Greek citizen did not notice any changes. Except that he was paid more to do less and that was ok for him at the time.

But the money that was lended to the Greek goverments were paper money backed by nothing, without any value what so ever. So, in essence, they indebted a whole nation and now they have an excuse to demand something of value in return. Not paper money of course (this has no value and they had a lot of it!) but rather resources and political and social reforms (Force Greece to take refugees, make Greece multicultural, destroy education, traditions customs and religion and so on). This becomes even more obvious if you consider the fact that they demand reforms and austerity measures (that they were proved to be catastrophic for the economy) in order to “get their money back” while at the same time they give us a ton of money (most of them of course are given to the corrupt goverment to implement their destructive plan) to take care of the refugees. This does not make any sense.

Ironically, Greece was not in debt when it was not a democracy up until 1974 when the Junta regime fell…

Now we are talking. Very good and true. Yes money rules the world and money is used to advance an agenda.

The money received may have been backed by nothing but it was exchanged for goods. Like german cars, submarines or nice houses or new roads.

I have been to greece and seen the changes with my own eyes. When you say the majority of the new wealth did go to the (mostly) socialist leaders and the generation now 60+ I would say thats spot on.

How I see it, it was not so much the “evil global elites” but the post-WW2-generation who sold their souls and the future of the countries (not only greece) in order to consume more.

He who is in debt is no free man.
This is true for any person or country.

The best course of action for greece would be imho:
Leave the Euro and EU and swallow the bitter pill.
*higher unemployment
*accept a lower standard of living for several years
*75% reduction in the public sector without (!) pensions, fire the slackers, all of them.
*stop all immigration, not even bulgarians for olives or africans for tourists.
*default on all debt and accept the fact no foreign country will lend anything and 99% of all savings of the greek people are gone
*Tax cuts
*goverment programs to get people to have more babies

…last but not least. End democracy so the above has a chance to become reality.

Wow that was a red pill answer right there! So i was mistaken, you are indeed well informed.

Yes Greek people are to be blamed in part for this situation (especially the previous generation, the baby boomers) because many of them indeed sold their soul for easy money in order to live the “good life” and more importantly never fought back. But this was a consequence of the demoralization of the society as a whole that took place at the same timeline, after the fall of Junta and the re-establishment of democracy. However the most of the blame goes to the puppet goverments and the upper class that sold Greece out. Many of them knew the plan all along (like Andreas Panandreou in the picture above) so they were traitors. Also, remember that the money the Greek people got cannot be compared with the money that the polititians and the upper class took in order to implement this destructive plan.

I have the same opinion as you. Speaking as a Greek, we need to get the hell out of the EU and suffer for some years in order to build an economy based on our abilities to produce. However, this will never happen. They do not want that. They want us to be in a perpetual debt in order to progress their agenda. I pray that one day we fought back but it seems that it is really too late. Most of the young generation is completely demoralized and brainwashed to the point that they do not care at all about the future. As long as they are entertained and have enough money to consume, they are fine. Also, as a consequence of living a hedonistic lifestyle we have one of the lowest birth rates in EU and we are slowly being bred out of existence.

” As long as they are entertained and have enough money to consume, they
are fine. Also, as a consequence of living a hedonistic lifestyle we
have one of the lowest birth rates in EU and we are slowly being bred
out of existence.”

The worst part is, that this is true for all of europe, the US, japan and even russia.

You can not save the people around you (mostly from their own foolishness) but you can save yourself and your core family. That is wife and children. What every man who swallowed the red pill should make one of his top priorities in life.

Yes you are absolutely right. First we should start with ourselves by living a life of purpose, morals, values and cultivating character through struggle. Then we could help our closest ones and last we could try to contribute something back to our community

Unfortunately, i do not have a family of my own at the moment and my chances of having one in the future are very low even if i really want this in order to give purpose to my life. It seems really hard to find a Greek woman that wants to have kids and family in their 20’s. All Greek women i know want pretty much to “have fun” until they are at their 30’s and by then it would be too late to have a strong principled family. This is the consequence of living a hedonistic lifestyle and abolishing everything traditional and religious in the process.

Also, i cannot relate to any Greek communities because they are actually non existent. Everybody here seems to be living selfishly only for himself. They do not care about anything but their personal self-interest and this saddens me a lot. Most of my friends do not want to hear about the truth.They want to believe in the blue pill so i could not even talk about all these (certainly depressing) things.

Only communities like ROK are a breath of fresh air because they remind me that i am not crazy for not believing in the reality as it is presented to us through media, education and so on. They remind me that they are people out there who can see exactly what i see and even more…

A respected historian I follow, Victor D. Hanson, lived in Greece for 3 years back in the old days and commented how few people pay taxes, work and yet lived a life style beyound their means all the while demanding 1st world public services from their government. Completely unsustainable, but after cooking the books the EU stepped in and fed them more “free” money.

Europe’s biggest problem isn’t Immigration, but the iron rules of economics and it’s attachment to socialism. They are running out of other peoples money.

And let’s not forget about another relic of Ottoman rule: crab-in-a-bucket syndrome.

I’m guessing that, during those times, for an Orthodox Christian Greek to do well and go beyond the status of the raya (serf-by-religion), he had to somehow get a sweetheart deal with the ruling authorities first. Thus, he had to become a turncoat, a traitor in the eyes of his neighbors.

Fast forward to today, and anyone who does well for himself is viewed with suspicion. At best. Envy, as a word, doesn’t quite come close to describing the two-faced censure of his erstwhile compatriots. No one who does well in Greece should be surprised at the whispers, side-glances, and even sabotage by his fellows.

Actually, there are a lot of nuances not covered in this piece, but thanks to the author for writing it, as it goes deeper than the normal “Greeks are lazy” line.

You keep blaming “the Turks” and “orientalism” for Greece’s problems, but before the current Islamic AKP Party took over, the Turkish economy was pretty much thriving from the late 1990s to the mid 2000s. And the culture was also quite secular until recently. So what’s Greece’s excuse? I am an American teaching English in Istanbul, and i can attest that Turkish people WORK HARD! Yes, there is corruption, and its getting worse, but these are not a lazy people. BOTH countries got fat from the free money given from the United States during the Cold War (Marshall Plan). Turkey invested in infrastructure. What the fuck did you Greeks do with your cash?