Just another realtor doing their job in pumping up the market. Realtors will always be 'bullish' on the market, without considering fundamentals. If you guys want to pay a PREMIUM for the ownership title and all it's responsibilities, then definitely buy, especially condos.

I love this Rent VS Home Ownership debate. In my real estate career I have seen this debate argued over and over again. Both sides bring up great points, however the bottom line is that Home Ownership is not for everyone. The same can be said about renting. Renting is not for everyone

I love this Rent VS Home Ownership debate. In my real estate career I have seen this debate argued over and over again. Both sides bring up great points, however the bottom line is that Home Ownership is not for everyone. The same can be said about renting. Renting is not for everyone

Exactly, I'll always rent because I like the flexibility.
I might buy when I can pay off a house in 3 years.

I am not a realtor, but with all the rich immigrants coming in, I don't see property price in Toronto come down anytime soon. Additionally, the current price in Toronto is a bit high, but not by too much. People have been predicting a collapse in Vancouver's real estate for how many years? It only got higher. Why Toronto would be different?

Toronto's housing price only increases modestly over the past 10 years (5-10% a year), unlike many US cities previously, or Vancouver. So those who expect a US type of price drop in the future can forget about it. Canadian banks are nowhere near the recklessness of their American counterparts in terms of approving mortgages to people who can't afford them.

Asian buyers are playing increasingly an important role. The rich Chinese are basically obsessed with house ownership/investing. They can do without buy nice cars, expensive dinners, going to movies and nice clothes, but the first thing they do after coming to Canada is buying houses. Some with cash if they are wealthy enough, and some save like hell for a down payment. Then they start thinking about investing and become landlords. This is exacerbated by the fact that many owners don't even live in Canada. $40,000-50,000 can buy you a nice three-bedroom house in Toronto, but only a 1000sf condo in Shanghai or Beijing; a $300,000 downtown condo can rent out for $1,500 (maybe 1000 after expenses) but a condo as expensive can rent out for $300 in Beijing and Shanghai, do the math. Houses in Toronto are basically deals to them. I haven't talked about the middle easters.

I personally think Toronto is over priced, but market doesn't clear itself very time there is a bubble, sometimes you have to wait for 10 years or more because many other factors come into play.Put overseas investment aside, the fundamentals here is pretty solid. If you like flexibility, fine, renting is a good idea and a lot cheaper. However, expecting the price to drop by any significant percentage so that you can come in and get a deal, it is nearly impossible in the foreseeable future.

If you do need a house, buy now instead of waiting, chances are in 5 years, the $400,000 house you think is not worth the price now will be asking for $500,000 or more, and you will still be sitting here expecting a price correction and cheap houses all over the market. If you don't believe me and still think I work for Re/Max, simply google and find 10 or 5 years ago what Torontonians thought how the market would be in the future, you would be surprised how similar the situation was. Housing is expensive in almost all major healthy cities, and people tend to complain and wishfully think some sort of meltdown is coming. You know what, even if price comes down by 20% tomorrow, there will still be tons of folks here complaining it is beyond reach and there is bubble.

Maybe a good leading indicator is vancouver. If the Vancouver's bubble doesn't burst, why should Toronto's much smaller one?

I am not a realtor, but with all the rich immigrants coming in, I don't see property price in Toronto come down anytime soon. Additionally, the current price in Toronto is a bit high, but not by too much. People have been predicting a collapse in Vancouver's real estate for how many years? It only got higher. Why Toronto would be different?

Toronto's housing price only increases modestly over the past 10 years (5-10% a year), unlike many US cities previously, or Vancouver. So those who expect a US type of price drop in the future can forget about it. Canadian banks are nowhere near the recklessness of their American counterparts in terms of approving mortgages to people who can't afford them.

Asian buyers are playing increasingly an important role. The rich Chinese are basically obsessed with house ownership/investing. They can do without buy nice cars, expensive dinners, going to movies and nice clothes, but the first thing they do after coming to Canada is buying houses. Some with cash if they are wealthy enough, and some save like hell for a down payment. Then they start thinking about investing and become landlords. This is exacerbated by the fact that many owners don't even live in Canada. $40,000-50,000 can buy you a nice three-bedroom house in Toronto, but only a 1000sf condo in Shanghai or Beijing; a $300,000 downtown condo can rent out for $1,500 (maybe 1000 after expenses) but a condo as expensive can rent out for $300 in Beijing and Shanghai, do the math. Houses in Toronto are basically deals to them. I haven't talked about the middle easters.

I personally think Toronto is over priced, but market doesn't clear itself very time there is a bubble, sometimes you have to wait for 10 years or more because many other factors come into play.Put overseas investment aside, the fundamentals here is pretty solid. If you like flexibility, fine, renting is a good idea and a lot cheaper. However, expecting the price to drop by any significant percentage so that you can come in and get a deal, it is nearly impossible in the foreseeable future.

If you do need a house, buy now instead of waiting, chances are in 5 years, the $400,000 house you think is not worth the price now will be asking for $500,000 or more, and you will still be sitting here expecting a price correction and cheap houses all over the market. If you don't believe me and still think I work for Re/Max, simply google and find 10 or 5 years ago what Torontonians thought how the market would be in the future, you would be surprised how similar the situation was. Housing is expensive in almost all major healthy cities, and people tend to complain and wishfully think some sort of meltdown is coming. You know what, even if price comes down by 20% tomorrow, there will still be tons of folks here complaining it is beyond reach and there is bubble.

Maybe a good leading indicator is vancouver. If the Vancouver's bubble doesn't burst, why should Toronto's much smaller one?

If I bought my 730 sq. ft. rental condo at current market prices, I would have to provide a $250,000 down payment so I wouldn't pay more than my rent, and I wouldn't have much hope of a large appreciation in value over the coming years. At some point it is a choice between being house poor or having a life.

And I bought a $256,000 condo in 2010 with 20% down. I rented it out for one year $1,385 a month before I moved in myself. This rent not only covered my expenses but the renter was paying my mortgage.

My condo has appreciated in value in the past three years

I customized my unit to my liking (can't do that when you are renting someone else's home)

As I keep paying down my mortgage, my living expenses keep going down. In the meantime, rental rates are creeping up.

So, where would I be if I rented the same condo? Buying does make a lot of sense, as long as you are not one of the sheep who are buying overvalued real-estate.

I was reading past threads and posts about real estate and looks like this guy is right so far in 2014!!

Originally Posted by kkgg7

I am not a realtor, but with all the rich immigrants coming in, I don't see property price in Toronto come down anytime soon. Additionally, the current price in Toronto is a bit high, but not by too much. People have been predicting a collapse in Vancouver's real estate for how many years? It only got higher. Why Toronto would be different?

Toronto's housing price only increases modestly over the past 10 years (5-10% a year), unlike many US cities previously, or Vancouver. So those who expect a US type of price drop in the future can forget about it. Canadian banks are nowhere near the recklessness of their American counterparts in terms of approving mortgages to people who can't afford them.

Asian buyers are playing increasingly an important role. The rich Chinese are basically obsessed with house ownership/investing. They can do without buy nice cars, expensive dinners, going to movies and nice clothes, but the first thing they do after coming to Canada is buying houses. Some with cash if they are wealthy enough, and some save like hell for a down payment. Then they start thinking about investing and become landlords. This is exacerbated by the fact that many owners don't even live in Canada. $40,000-50,000 can buy you a nice three-bedroom house in Toronto, but only a 1000sf condo in Shanghai or Beijing; a $300,000 downtown condo can rent out for $1,500 (maybe 1000 after expenses) but a condo as expensive can rent out for $300 in Beijing and Shanghai, do the math. Houses in Toronto are basically deals to them. I haven't talked about the middle easters.

I personally think Toronto is over priced, but market doesn't clear itself very time there is a bubble, sometimes you have to wait for 10 years or more because many other factors come into play.Put overseas investment aside, the fundamentals here is pretty solid. If you like flexibility, fine, renting is a good idea and a lot cheaper. However, expecting the price to drop by any significant percentage so that you can come in and get a deal, it is nearly impossible in the foreseeable future.

If you do need a house, buy now instead of waiting, chances are in 5 years, the $400,000 house you think is not worth the price now will be asking for $500,000 or more, and you will still be sitting here expecting a price correction and cheap houses all over the market. If you don't believe me and still think I work for Re/Max, simply google and find 10 or 5 years ago what Torontonians thought how the market would be in the future, you would be surprised how similar the situation was. Housing is expensive in almost all major healthy cities, and people tend to complain and wishfully think some sort of meltdown is coming. You know what, even if price comes down by 20% tomorrow, there will still be tons of folks here complaining it is beyond reach and there is bubble.

Maybe a good leading indicator is vancouver. If the Vancouver's bubble doesn't burst, why should Toronto's much smaller one?

All I know is if I listened to the "doubters" 5+ years ago I'd be pretty upset. They were flat out wrong and refuse to admit it. While I think home ownership now is getting ridiculous, it has nothing to do with this meltdown that I keep hearing is near. It has to do with affordability. Costs on almost everything have gone way up over the last 5 years. Wages and job creation has not.

I didn't listen to the doomers but still purchased property with the impending meltdown in the back of my mind and bought accordingly. But I sure as hell wish I took advantage of the lax rules back then. 5% down, low interest rates, 35 year ammort. Lax banking rules. It was like the wild wild west before the government clamped down. Staying on the sidelines for the last 5-10 years got you nothing. Nothing at all but 10s of thousands of dollars wasted on rent with less money in the bank.