Just had this debate in game, while void try to argue concede shouldnt be in game he sat in fountain while rest of team fought and saying it hsould be in game. Not having concede is fail on so many levels

There is no concede function as of the moment but hopefully there would be one.

Just make it better compared to HoN's.

You can't make it better than HoN, it already went through a dozen iterations in a few years. People's habit with each iteration was carefully analyzed, what works and doesn't work was already made clear. No need to re-invent the wheel. Without concede people will end up afking at fountain, playing passively and not really contributing.

One things S2 is good at, is connecting systems together and letting logic and facts obtained from data prevail. Something DOTA2 seems to be failing at, apparently 5 vs 5 matches are suppose to be rare.

You can't make it better than HoN, it already went through a dozen iterations in a few years. People's habit with each iteration was carefully analyzed, what works and doesn't work was already made clear. No need to re-invent the wheel. Without concede people will end up afking at fountain, playing passively and not really contributing.

One things S2 is good at, is connecting systems together and letting logic and facts obtained from data prevail. Something DOTA2 seems to be failing at, apparently 5 vs 5 matches are suppose to be rare.

While HoN has introduced a lot of things that would be great in Dota 2, we have to keep in mind that some DotA players have this "CONCEDE? THIS IS DOTA!!!" mind set.

I wholeheartedly agree that concede function is necessary in a game like Dota 2 to help more people get into the game and lessen the frustration for those who have never gotten used to how DotA was played. Veterans have to remember that Dota 2 will open up to people who have never tried the original DotA.

Valve just has to tweak it in order to cater to both conservative DotA players and people who got a wider perspective by trying out other games in the Dota genre.

While HoN's concede function is good, it isn't perfect.

Possible changes:
Maybe enable it only after barracks in a lane have been destroyed.
If a team wants to concede before that event, make it a 5/5 vote that can be called after the 30 minute mark. (in-game times are theoretical and can be tweaked)

While HoN has introduced a lot of things that would be great in Dota 2, we have to keep in mind that some DotA players have this "CONCEDE? THIS IS DOTA!!!" mind set.

I wholeheartedly agree that concede function is necessary in a game like Dota 2 to help more people get into the game and lessen the frustration for those who have never gotten used to how DotA was played. Veterans have to remember that Dota 2 will open up to people who have never tried the original DotA.

Valve just has to tweak it in order to cater to both conservative DotA players and people who got a wider perspective by trying out other games in the Dota genre.

While HoN's concede function is good, it isn't perfect.

Possible changes:
Maybe enable it only after barracks in a lane have been destroyed.
If a team wants to concede before that event, make it a 5/5 vote that can be called after the 30 minute mark. (in-game times are theoretical and can be tweaked)

Its not a debate. The guys against concede have their hands in their ears and their eyes closed remembering that one time where they came back from 2 raxs down.
Which has happened to me even with the concede option present.

Its not a debate. The guys against concede have their hands in their ears and their eyes closed remembering that one time where they came back from 2 raxs down.
Which has happened to me even with the concede option present.

You can't make it better than HoN, it already went through a dozen iterations in a few years. People's habit with each iteration was carefully analyzed, what works and doesn't work was already made clear. No need to re-invent the wheel. Without concede people will end up afking at fountain, playing passively and not really contributing.

One things S2 is good at, is connecting systems together and letting logic and facts obtained from data prevail. Something DOTA2 seems to be failing at, apparently 5 vs 5 matches are suppose to be rare.

This is true, concede feature is far from abused or used when a comeback is possible. Id say 1 out of 30 games conceded had a chance at victory. Like i said before, not having it is fail on many many many levels

You want a middle ground with this. It would suck having the other team give up the very second you've managed to pull ahead. On the other hand you don't want to waste half an hour waiting for the other team to get bored and finally take down your base.
I'd agree with a few of the ideas here although make it not based on raxes.

i.e. the concede option becomes available as a 5/5 vote after 25ish mins. and only if the other team is up by at least 30 kills.

that way teams still get to stomp other teams, but you don't have to hang around too long. Stomping teams love getting kills, not so much taking down raxes.
Obviously the whole losing team would have to agree.

You want a middle ground with this. It would suck having the other team give up the very second you've managed to pull ahead. On the other hand you don't want to waste half an hour waiting for the other team to get bored and finally take down your base.
I'd agree with a few of the ideas here although make it not based on raxes.

i.e. the concede option becomes available as a 5/5 vote after 25ish mins. and only if the other team is up by at least 30 kills.

that way teams still get to stomp other teams, but you don't have to hang around too long. Stomping teams love getting kills, not so much taking down raxes.
Obviously the whole losing team would have to agree.

It must switch over to 4/5 concede at some point in time, 5/5 concede led to some of the most frustrating griefing I've ever encountered, where someone would refuse to concede and also refuse to participate whilst abusing chat, because the "team sucks".

No, that's just plain arrogance. A good player can keep the morale of his team up so that the team don't want to forfeit. Forcing everyone to play and waste their time on a one sided anal rape is only enjoyable for masochists.

I found a statement from a League Of Legends player who explained it.
But the reason why I belive it is actually, because one of the Starcraft Worldchampions said it. It's also a main part of the Buddhism religion so I don't think that it is completely wrong. You'd better think about it.
People without emotions will always rule out people with emotions on every logical problem.

Btw. Emotions distract you from the game, so no wonder why you're losing. The game is about concentration, and every kind of emotion is an Anti-Concentration.

I found a statement from a League Of Legends player who explained it.
But the reason why I belive it is actually, because one of the Starcraft Worldchampions said it. It's also a main part of the Buddhism religion so I don't think that it is completely wrong. You'd better think about it.
People without emotions will always rule out people with emotions on every logical problem.

Btw. Emotions distract you from the game, so no wonder why you're losing. The game is about concentration, and every kind of emotion is an Anti-Concentration.

I've seen many things on the HoN forums, a Budhist complaining about the current implementation of Concede is not one of them.

Starcraft Comp is also mostly 1 vs 1, DOTA 2 is a team game where you have to take the 4 other players from different backgrounds/religions in consideration, and the only way of doing that is with a democratic vote(the lesser evil). That's why a vote must eventually switch over to 4/5, so that the team of the uhm "Budhist" can concede.

I've seen many things on the HoN forums, a Budhist complaining about the current implementation of Concede is not one of them.

Starcraft Comp is also mostly 1 vs 1, DOTA 2 is a team game where you have to take the 4 other players from different backgrounds/religions in consideration, and the only way of doing that is with a democratic vote(the lesser evil). That's why a vote must eventually switch over to 4/5, so that the team of the uhm "Budhist" can concede.

What does this have to do with what I wrote?
Nothing I guess.
I said, wanting to give up is an emotion and if you play with emotions then it is bad.
Then you said, no it's not bad to play with emotions.
Then I told you that there are many people who are saying emotions are bad.
Now you say what? That Buddhists are not complaining about forfeit? I didn't even wrote about forfeit but about if emotions are good or not.
Man, l2read, please!

People are gonna AFK at fountain anyway, so the concede feature just lets the proper players get out of boring games and start playing a new one (hopefully with no leavers). Why should people be forced to stay in a boring game with no chance of winning? It just punishes the non-leavers and doesn't effect the AFKers.

It's like drug laws. People are gonna do it anyway, so don't make it a bitch for responsible people like myself (the good guys) to engage in the activity responsibly!

What does this have to do with what I wrote?
Nothing I guess.
I said, wanting to give up is an emotion and if you play with emotions then it is bad.
Then you said, no it's not bad to play with emotions.
Then I told you that there are many people who are saying emotions are bad.
Now you say what? That Buddhists are not complaining about forfeit? I didn't even wrote about forfeit but about if emotions are good or not.
Man, l2read, please!

Can read, just not comprehend wtf your going on about. Fighting a lost battle and not admitting defeat, is purely down to emotion. It definitely ain't down to common sense. It's a bloody game, people don't have to waste their time playing one sided matches. If Icefrog didn't design DotA in such a way that the power gap increases exponentially, it might of been a different story.

I recently downloaded hon, and my whole team was fucking pansies, even the mate that got me to download it was telling me i had to forfeit. I don't give a fuck about stats, play til the death you pussies, i have won quite a few dota games in which we all thought we were down and out, but if they make a mistake, you can get straight back in to the game, and have a chance at winning. Those are the sorts of games that make me love the game.

I recently downloaded hon, and my whole team was fucking pansies, even the mate that got me to download it was telling me i had to forfeit. I don't give a fuck about stats, play til the death you pussies, i have won quite a few dota games in which we all thought we were down and out, but if they make a mistake, you can get straight back in to the game, and have a chance at winning. Those are the sorts of games that make me love the game.

Can read, just not comprehend wtf your going on about. Fighting a lost battle and not admitting defeat, is purely down to emotion.

It's not about admitting anything. It's about giving up because the game does not make fun anymore. If you want to play professional, this mustn't happen.
Especially as there are players who play the game to get better and maybe they dream of getting as good as professional players. These players have to play lost matches even if they are lost, because they have to get control over their feelings/emotions. If you die often, that is frustrating and if you feel frustrated you will die often. The only chance you have is to not get emotions at all while playing. This applies as well to positive emotions like "I'm winning"/happiness. The only way you can practice this is by losing games.
It's similar to practicing other emotions like fear or impatience. Only if you feel it over and over and then try to remember to forget that emotion and get your concentration back, you can learn to control them.

Wanting to concede is not due to emotions, it's due to being logical enough to realize a match is lost. And if you vote and the rest of your team agrees why force everyone to stay? By making everyone stay in a one sided fist fight it just wasting their time. If you know your going to lose why drag it out for an unnecessary amount of time, and player with a decent amount of experience under their belt should be able to realize this. So why would I want to stay in a losing game for an extra half an hour, in that amount of time I could've started a fresh game and be much more happier. By making people stay in a game that's lost is not fun and just plain punishing as if They leave they get leaver status. So in the end your not playing because you want to but because some stupid system says you have to or be punished for not enduring a butt kicking. Sorry forcefully enduring a potential butt kicking is not my cup of tea, given the choice I would've rather concede ad try another game that isn't completely one sided.

Forcing a team to stay when they know they lost is not fulfilling for anyone. As for the other team who cares you kicked their butt so hard they conceded seeing no chance of a comeback, you win! Why complain?

It's already used as a meta feature in comp play. They agree and then leave the game.
If it's already used Valve might aswell implement it.

It stops people from AFKing by fountain and it stops people from wasting time on already lost games.
The only drawback is that a very little precentage of games could actually still be won, but that is far easier to live with than wasting 15min on every single match.

And the argument about "you shouldn't give up" is really not that good. In by far the most cases, it is easy to see that it is impossible to win and you're just being stupporn to think otherwise, wasting everybodies time.

It works fairly well in HoN, and there are still matches that go back and forth in pub

It's easy to solve this concede argument with the following system (note that it's only an example that with deep and meaningful thoughts can be improved even further):

-Teams that destroyed a lane's raxes will get extra point if they end the game shortly after that.

-If the losing team lost one or two lanes' raxes and still manages to defend and fight with " pride and honor" resulting in a prolonged game after they lost 1 or 2 lanes, will lose less points with the loss. (Hm, help me with this one. Try to think of something else or an addition to this!)

Another thing that I want to happen is that Valve, Dota 2 itself and players emphasize on how losing couldn't be a bad thing.

See the example above: If you defend and stay true, trying to use the best out of your team even though you are losing and YOU KNOW you will lose. You will get a "softer" loss, or in fact shouldn't even count as loss. Now, people who go fountain-afk, griefing and trash-talking indeed should get a loss marked on their stats.

I hate the concede feature. After playing HON these people give up 15 minutes in without any towers being taken and only down by maybe 10 kills behind. People start giving up early on because the option is so easy to just concede.

People in Hon rely too much on that concede and if they start off 0-3 then its the end of the game.

If you have 2 lanes pushed in and down by 20+ kills then im fine with it but at that point they should just be able to steam roll you and finish the game in 5 mins anyway.

The whole attitude of playing the game changes when you have that option because its an escape route. If the concede feature isn't there to begin with I think people will play better and not give up early game when there still is a chance. If people want to afk though and not participate they should get reported and some consequence implemented.

Possible changes:
Maybe enable it only after barracks in a lane have been destroyed.
If a team wants to concede before that event, make it a 5/5 vote that can be called after the 30 minute mark. (in-game times are theoretical and can be tweaked)

I like this suggestion.

If you are going to say 'oh yeah, afk in base' you're just being a huge lamer and most of the time people like you go afk even when the game isn't even CLOSE to a loss (because he got ganked twice in a row and noone help, OMG AFK FOUNTAIN)

the thing is, once a concede option is implemented, you have to also implement AFK protection (better than HoN) because there is nothing that i hate more than a huge whiner sitting in base telling everyone to concede, while our carry is fat as fuck and we haven't even played through one 5v5 team fight.

As a reminder for those against a 5 vote concede feature is that everyone has to agree to it ingame and all you have to do if your against it is say no and vote against it. Don't deny everyone the ability to concede just because you don't like it as there will be games where the players have come to a point where they're all for it as all hope is lost unless they decided to toss the game. So while you may not like it that's fine vote no when that happens but there will be people simply not having fun anymore where they can all agree it's lost.

As a reminder for those against a 5 vote concede feature is that everyone has to agree to it ingame and all you have to do if your against it is say no and vote against it. Don't deny everyone the ability to concede just because you don't like it as there will be games where the players have come to a point where they're all for it as all hope is lost unless they decided to toss the game. So while you may not like it that's fine vote no when that happens but there will be people simply not having fun anymore where they can all agree it's lost.

i have won countless games where my whole team thought it was lost, and then i brought it back with a fat farmed carry.