Leaving aside the comments on the external design, one of the few things I tihnk ENT did well was the interior design of the ship, it looked like a plausible midway between present-day ocean going ships and TOS ships, hatches instead of doors, bulkheads, rivets, doors that don't open automatically as well.

The same applies to the uniforms and even the weapons IMO. plausible mid-point between now and 2263.

Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

FaxModem1 wrote:I put not my cup of tea. I would have liked a Dadelus class ship to be the star

<nod> From what I remember at the time, I think a large number of fans were expecting something like the Daedalus class. I know I was. It just makes a lot more sense to me as a design that could logically evolve into the Constitution-class ships we're all familiar with.

It's an interesting question. What would people consider the design heritage of the miranda to be? Is it a connie with the secondary chopped off or its own design? It could be the nx is part of its lineage not the connie's. It would make sense for their first starship to be a simple primary hull only design.

Tangentially what do people think of the proposed s5 design? It addd a secondary hull that makes its profile look a lot more like the constitution if nothing else. I fjnd it a rather implausible refit in universe but it was popular/official enough to get a die cast model.

As to the ships innards they were cool but on the other hand in a misguided attempt to look old fashion they had buttons to open doors instead of automatic doors we have now which was silly. Though tbf the only one i can definitely remember being like that was sickbay which is more understandable.

To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

If the STO version isn't totally off-base on how the season 5 refit would have looked it looks decent enough, I could see both Miranda and Connie growing out the season 5 NX as 2 different solutions to solve the issue of the rear end of the refit NX being rather complex looking to build. One where they get rid the catamaran pylons and mount the Nacelle pylons on the secondary hull, with the primary hull being seperated via a neck like Daedalus-class and a second where they instead deside to fuse the engineering hull with rear of the saucer creating kind of a proto miranda style design.

Btw is there any canon info as to when the Miranda design was introduced? Other then sometime before wrath of Khan obviously.

It'll be kind of intresting to see if Discovery will clear with any of this.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

Let's be honest about the Akira class ship. There are similarities but there are also differences...

The NX-01 has a more prominent and circular saucer section and far less prominant pylons. It's nacelles do not line up with it's saucer. It does not have what is basically an engineering section glued to the bottom of the Saucer complete with navigational deflector, instead having a frontal deflector dish more akin to that on a connie.

Zor if possible could you please downsize those pics of the NX or if that's not possible turn them into links please.

EDIT:looks like that thing on the NX has something that looks like the impulse domes from the TOS refit era, hmmm intresting.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

Lord Revan wrote:
Btw is there any canon info as to when the Miranda design was introduced? Other then sometime before wrath of Khan obviously.

None that I know of. Though the very low registry numbers on some of them put them as a pre-connie design. I've seen fan images of Mirandas in a TOS styling like they went through the same kind of refit as the connie.

To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

Lord Revan wrote:
Btw is there any canon info as to when the Miranda design was introduced? Other then sometime before wrath of Khan obviously.

None that I know of. Though the very low registry numbers on some of them put them as a pre-connie design. I've seen fan images of Mirandas in a TOS styling like they went through the same kind of refit as the connie.

yeah I've seen those designs too some of them are even pretty good being able to marry the Miranda hull with TOS design style without making it seem forced. That said TOS registries are kind of a mess like with Constellation having the registry of NCC-1071 dispite being implied to be a later construction then the Big-E (NCC-1701), so who knows how relible the registry numbers are.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

I never saw the Akira similarity as a problem, and I liked the open plan of the ship, as opposed to the seamless like of the E-D which just really not very realistic for a ship constantly underway and maintained while underway. Its a slim little ship, it seemed plausible as a first attempt as a fully interseller warship.

"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

It has too much of a Late TNG era asthetic, it's too sleek. For Earth's 'first' Warp 5 ship it's too refined...and for an "exploration" ship it's far too well 'equipped'.

It's like the Space shuttle being able to dogfight a MiG-31 on even terms. 23rd and 24th century starfleet "exploartion" ships being able to hold their own against dedicated warships makes sense because they have 3,000 years of Vulcan engineering behind them, the NX has NONE of that. On top of that UESPA-Starfleet is supposed to be NASA 2.0. Last I checked the CST-100's spec sheet doesn't include hardpoints for AIM-120's and a 20mm cannon.

Dash of hindsight, the Avenger should've been a prime universe military variant. Arm it with Hybrid Gamma Particle Lasers that have nasty side effects on a target (explaining how Earth was able to match more established powers...and why the "primitive" lasers were abandoned in the future.) The NX-01 would have a PHASed Energy Rectification Emitter for scientific work, and that has to be re-purposed as a weapon when the Avenger or the Vulcans are too far away to help. (Jives with the original fluff, Phasers were re-purposed mining tools.)

It has too much of a Late TNG era asthetic, it's too sleek. For Earth's 'first' Warp 5 ship it's too refined...and for an "exploration" ship it's far too well 'equipped'.

It's like the Space shuttle being able to dogfight a MiG-31 on even terms. 23rd and 24th century starfleet "exploartion" ships being able to hold their own against dedicated warships makes sense because they have 3,000 years of Vulcan engineering behind them, the NX has NONE of that. On top of that UESPA-Starfleet is supposed to be NASA 2.0. Last I checked the CST-100's spec sheet doesn't include hardpoints for AIM-120's and a 20mm cannon.

The NX-01 was not Starfleet's first starship, it's the final product of a long term that had been going on for some time. Earth has had a fleet of cargo ships and a few ships for science, escort and patrols. But they were short ranged and slow (taking months to years to go from star system to star system). In any case they have had some experience with pirates and the Vulcans would have told them that there are some unpleasant races out there in the galaxy.

The shuttle in that would be the NX-Alpha, Beta and Gamma testbeds. The NX-01 was supposed to be the finished product.

It has too much of a Late TNG era asthetic, it's too sleek. For Earth's 'first' Warp 5 ship it's too refined...and for an "exploration" ship it's far too well 'equipped'.

It's like the Space shuttle being able to dogfight a MiG-31 on even terms. 23rd and 24th century starfleet "exploartion" ships being able to hold their own against dedicated warships makes sense because they have 3,000 years of Vulcan engineering behind them, the NX has NONE of that. On top of that UESPA-Starfleet is supposed to be NASA 2.0. Last I checked the CST-100's spec sheet doesn't include hardpoints for AIM-120's and a 20mm cannon.

Dash of hindsight, the Avenger should've been a prime universe military variant. Arm it with Hybrid Gamma Particle Lasers that have nasty side effects on a target (explaining how Earth was able to match more established powers...and why the "primitive" lasers were abandoned in the future.) The NX-01 would have a PHASed Energy Rectification Emitter for scientific work, and that has to be re-purposed as a weapon when the Avenger or the Vulcans are too far away to help. (Jives with the original fluff, Phasers were re-purposed mining tools.)

As far as I remember the Ent-Neg was woefully under-equipped for much of its run, wasn't even launched with all its weapons installed. It had phase cannons installed a little after launch but did not have its full complement for some time, it only launched with ineffective spatial torpedoes. It was certainly not something that could hold its own against any dedicated warship and got its ass kicked by pretty much any other power.

The fact it was armed isn't all that surprising considering it was a long range exploration vessel in potentially hostile space. The space shuttle isn't going to be packing weapons because its unlikely to encounter any hostiles.

It has too much of a Late TNG era asthetic, it's too sleek. For Earth's 'first' Warp 5 ship it's too refined...and for an "exploration" ship it's far too well 'equipped'.

That's kind of colored by the LOL that the original Enterprise is though isn't it? I mean really nothing about the Enterprise show ship design would be that hard to build, its kind of setup like some planes used to be, and its not going to use its space well though. I do agree on the interior, they should have gone further with the open wall design then they did, and made the interior girders they showed less rounded. It looked really fake the way they had it.

It's like the Space shuttle being able to dogfight a MiG-31 on even terms.

You say that...but how much budget we get for putting the bomb bay adaptor and wide aperture search radar into the cargo bay? The shuttle would be the end all interceptor just like its the end all strategic bomber. Both can IIRC maneuver at about 3 gees fully loaded too, so an actual dogfight isn't even impossible.... but it's not like you'd need too when your mach 22 faster then the enemy.

23rd and 24th century starfleet "exploartion" ships being able to hold their own against dedicated warships makes sense because they have 3,000 years of Vulcan engineering behind them, the NX has NONE of that. On top of that UESPA-Starfleet is supposed to be NASA 2.0. Last I checked the CST-100's spec sheet doesn't include hardpoints for AIM-120's and a 20mm cannon.

Yeah but that's because we signed a treaty not to do that, and our actual military has ground based weapons to compensate. Coast Guard cutters are armed, all ships in the age of exploration were armed, some very heavily, some were overt military missions from the get go, and civilian armament of ships in general didn't phase out fully until steam power appeared (most pirates being sail only and such). It would be rather silly to go out exploring into a galaxy the Vulcan's have no doubt already told earth can be dangerous, and not bring an anti ship armament. Maybe not a heavy one, but at least enough to beat off space pirates, which is about where Enterprise seemed to rank anyway.

As far as alien powers own strengths goes, who knows, earth may have had a serious amount of advanced technology survive WW3 as it was, and its ahead in technology by TNG, it may simply always have been ahead and for whatever reason certain alien powers ended up in space first. They may not all have designed their original own warp engines. I was no fan of Enterprise, but largely that just fell down to it not being good enough, rather then that I thought it was all horrible. I just don't think the low tech thing was ever going to have a real chance of working with the way they wanted to make the show, they should have created a trek with a space internet, in hindsight.

"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956