The media in Toronto are an embarrassment. Both the Sun and the Star. Between the constant garbage that comes out of SunMediaCor and the whiny tirades back and forth with Rob Ford in the Star....as much as I hate Rob Ford, their editor is going out of their way to post insanely irrelevant photos and captions on every single Ford story.

Someone needs to hold the media accountable for becoming a bunch of arrogant blowhards.

The media in Toronto are an embarrassment. Both the Sun and the Star. Between the constant garbage that comes out of SunMediaCor and the whiny tirades back and forth with Rob Ford in the Star....as much as I hate Rob Ford, their editor is going out of their way to post insanely irrelevant photos and captions on every single Ford story.

Someone needs to hold the media accountable for becoming a bunch of arrogant blowhards.

It's insane how far it's moved from a source of news reporting to tabloid garbage - and this is in regards to pretty much everything outside of maybe Christopher Hume and Carol Goar.

I love Burke's reply to the question of whether he's considering an extension for Wilson. "None of your business."

Well, except that it is a sports journalist's business. Sometimes I wish Larry Brooks was on the Leafs beat. He's not a great writer but he's not intimidated by blowhards either.

That's if you feel Burke is a blowhard. Not everybody does.

Sure. I mean IMO a private company doesn't have to say anything to anybody about injuries and the like outside of their shareholders. Its their right to either give or withhold information. Just because the Leafs have tightened up some on the information they give to the public doesn't influence a smidgen of what Burke, Wilson, the staff, et al. do on a regular basis, so what's the difference?

I don't think fans have the "right" to know anything about the team outside of who's playing, and who's injured. Everything else is a cherry on top. Maybe the Leafs' brass would provide the public with more information if media people not named Jonas Siegel or James Mirtle stopped spin doctoring everything to extremes.

Steve Simmons is so off the mark it isn't even funny. Simmons gets exactly what he deserves. The bottom line is I think Burke's approach is exactly what this media zoo needs. A little reality check...

Exactly. They're sports reporters not investigative journalists or war time correspondents or something that, you know, actually matters.

Report about the sport, the players that are playing and what the coach/GM tells you. That's the job. It's not to ascertain exactly what injury Armstrong or Reimer has. There's no conspiracy here, and even if there was, it's not one that matters a whole lot.

These guys feel marginalized because they don't have any real power. Most fans don't care. In order for them to feel like they matter, they need those fans to care and for Burke to be told that they (the reporters) matter.

No matter how much they B*$#! and complain this will not happen. It's time they realize that most journalists could (and would probably be happy to) have their jobs. If they have such a problem with the situation they should find something else to do for a living.

Report about the sport, the players that are playing and what the coach/GM tells you. That's the job. It's not to ascertain exactly what injury Armstrong or Reimer has.

Yeah, that's just not true. The reality is that people are so eager for accurate reporting on things that NHL teams make it a point not to disclose(precise injuries, trade rumours) that a reporter who was consistently right about those topics would see a ton of following both on twitter and at his column. The reality is that driving traffic is their job. Their job isn't to write press releases for the Leafs, I can read those if I want at the team's site.

A reporter following the team should be looking for something nobody else has and that informs us about the team otherwise why am I even reading them? I've got no interest in reading team-approved puff pieces and I can find out about the line-ups when I watch the game.

It's funny, there have been tensions between reporters and the Leafs before, but it never seemed to get this heated in the past. I suppose it's due to the new media where you can immediately tweet something and it becomes "news". Stuff that Cox or Simmons might tweet in the heat of the moment might not have gotten out years ago, now it causes headlines. Fascinating to watch from the sidelines, even if it is a train wreck.

Report about the sport, the players that are playing and what the coach/GM tells you. That's the job. It's not to ascertain exactly what injury Armstrong or Reimer has.

Yeah, that's just not true. The reality is that people are so eager for accurate reporting on things that NHL teams make it a point not to disclose(precise injuries, trade rumours) that a reporter who was consistently right about those topics would see a ton of following both on twitter and at his column. The reality is that driving traffic is their job. Their job isn't to write press releases for the Leafs, I can read those if I want at the team's site.

A reporter following the team should be looking for something nobody else has and that informs us about the team otherwise why am I even reading them? I've got no interest in reading team-approved puff pieces and I can find out about the line-ups when I watch the game.

Red Fisher turned 85 last August. I was reading one of his recent articles the other day. He didn't write puff pieces. In fact, he just criticized the Montreal GM for the Markov contract. Unlike Strachan, he's still employed.

I think Red found a way to go about his business throughout his career without getting into the garbage Simmons & Cox have. For one, I've found his articles to be more reliable, factually correct and/or accurate. For another, he actually seems to put more effort and quality thought into what he has to say. Thirdly, I can't recall Fisher making himself a key part of the story like so many in the media seem to do today through some inflated sense of self importance. I can't recall Red ever writing something just to get a rise out of people - trolling for attention so he could feel as if he'd done his job because that's shoddy crap. I also don't recall him calling his readers sycophants, sheep, etc.

Folks in the media produce shoddy crap desperate to grab attention when they're too lazy or incapable of delivering more. They may feel as if they've done their job by boosting ratings/readership like Strachan or Berger did. But it's like the kid who cried wolf. Eventually, they're tuned out and put out to pasture because they stop providing any value.

I continue to feel that there are sports journalists/reporters like Fisher, McKenzie, Duhatschek, etc that operate differently than guys/hacks like Simmons and sometimes, Cox.

As one of the top franchises in hockey, I think there's lots of room for improvement with the media that covers this team. I don't fault the Leafs for taking exception to some of that coverage.

Simmons is a pathetic sports writer in my opinion and he'll eventually get put out to pasture like Strachan & Berger - maybe sooner than later after this recent outburst reveals to all that he has no professional relationship with the most important team in the city.

Red Fisher turned 85 last August. I was reading one of his recent articles the other day. He didn't write puff pieces. In fact, he just criticized the Montreal GM for the Markov contract. Unlike Strachan, he's still employed.

I think Red found a way to go about his business throughout his career without getting into the garbage Simmons & Cox have. For one, I've found his articles to be more reliable, factually correct and/or accurate. For another, he actually seems to put more effort and quality thought into what he has to say. Thirdly, I can't recall Fisher making himself a key part of the story like so many in the media seem to do today through some inflated sense of self importance. I can't recall Red ever writing something just to get a rise out of people - trolling for attention so he could feel as if he'd done his job because that's shoddy crap. I also don't recall him calling his readers sycophants, sheep, etc.

We could talk for hours about how the changing nature of the news business has fundamentally altered the way a sportswriter goes about their job and, as a general, I don't think there's much room for debate. The need for immediacy and eyeballs has generated a lot of laziness and sensationalism. I can't argue that.

But the reality of the modern day media landscape is that a beat writer, which I'm assuming is a job title that doesn't really apply to Cox, Simmons or Fisher, does have a responsibility to find those scoops and drive those numbers. That is their job. I'm not advocating for it necessarily, I was fine in a world with newspapers and not twitter, but I can only King Canute that for so long.

Title: Re: Media Thread
Post by: cw on December 06, 2011, 10:44:45 AM

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article. Yep, two-thirds.

Red Fisher turned 85 last August. I was reading one of his recent articles the other day. He didn't write puff pieces. In fact, he just criticized the Montreal GM for the Markov contract. Unlike Strachan, he's still employed.

I think Red found a way to go about his business throughout his career without getting into the garbage Simmons & Cox have. For one, I've found his articles to be more reliable, factually correct and/or accurate. For another, he actually seems to put more effort and quality thought into what he has to say. Thirdly, I can't recall Fisher making himself a key part of the story like so many in the media seem to do today through some inflated sense of self importance. I can't recall Red ever writing something just to get a rise out of people - trolling for attention so he could feel as if he'd done his job because that's shoddy crap. I also don't recall him calling his readers sycophants, sheep, etc.

We could talk for hours about how the changing nature of the news business has fundamentally altered the way a sportswriter goes about their job and, as a general, I don't think there's much room for debate. The need for immediacy and eyeballs has generated a lot of laziness and sensationalism. I can't argue that.

But the reality of the modern day media landscape is that a beat writer, which I'm assuming is a job title that doesn't really apply to Cox, Simmons or Fisher, does have a responsibility to find those scoops and drive those numbers. That is their job. I'm not advocating for it necessarily, I was fine in a world with newspapers and not twitter, but I can only King Canute that for so long.

A guy I complimented prior to the Boston starter incident, Jonas Siegel, is a beat writer/reporter. If you look at his coverage of that story, it's pretty much bang on. No one took issue with him. He didn't get into all kinds of acrimony with Wilson either. He was smart enough to sniff the possibility out before it happened through the subtleties of what Wilson said and then report on it.

Siegel, in this 24/7 news environment, had just as much time or less as the others as he had to go on the air that afternoon/early evening. He got it right. Traikos of the National Post also got it right. So it wasn't a fluke or anything impossible. Both men, with the same opportunity as all the others, listened carefully, thought it through and then did their jobs.

And the rest who weren't up to that - including some who don't appear to attend these scrums and probably weren't there - cry foul making accusations of lying when if they'd done their jobs and listened closely & carefully and thought it through like Siegel & Traikos did, they would have got the real story right without silly acrimony.

And that isn't an exception. It's just another example. It's been a pattern with a number of these lazy or incompetent clowns for years in this town.

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article. Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him. :( ::)

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. Itís part of the foolish game. " Simmons

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article. Yep, two-thirds.

Ah, the Rob Ford tactic. It's always the "majority" that is silent...as long as your viewpoint is shared by said majority.

And the rest who weren't up to that - including some who don't appear to attend these scrums and probably weren't there - cry foul making accusations of lying when if they'd done their jobs and listened closely & carefully and thought it through like Siegel & Traikos did, they would have got the real story right without silly acrimony.

And that isn't an exception. It's just another example. It's been a pattern with a number of these lazy or incompetent clowns for years in this town.

I'm not arguing for Simmons or Cox here. I think they're wrong. I was commenting on the reality of what the media's role is here and what a beat writer has to do.

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article. Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him. :( ::)

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. Itís part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I love Burke's reply to the question of whether he's considering an extension for Wilson. "None of your business."

Well, except that it is a sports journalist's business. Sometimes I wish Larry Brooks was on the Leafs beat. He's not a great writer but he's not intimidated by blowhards either.

Honestly, I'd be more interested in a story by a reporter that proposes whether Burke should consider an extension with a sound reasoning for why. You know, something with some critical thought behind it.

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article. Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him. :( ::)

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. Itís part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I was laughing, they're even hearing about it out west.

One of the Vancouver papers I saw weighed in on it.

With the gloves off and after suffering some professional embarrassment for the dispute, with no relationship between themselves and the Leafs GM & coach, Cox & Simmons will be gunning for Wilson & Burke from here on out at every opportunity. Just like they did when Quinn cut them off.

Both of them suffered for that. Cox got let go from the FAN590 and had to change his ways. It's not a fight they can really win for their papers long term - particularly with the club on the upswing.

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article. Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him. :( ::)

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. Itís part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I was laughing, they're even hearing about it out west.

One of the Vancouver papers I saw weighed in on it.

With the gloves off and after suffering some professional embarrassment for the dispute, with no relationship between themselves and the Leafs GM & coach, Cox & Simmons will be gunning for Wilson & Burke from here on out at every opportunity. Just like they did when Quinn cut them off.

Both of them suffered for that. Cox got let go from the FAN590 and had to change his ways. It's not a fight they can really win for their papers long term - particularly with the club on the upswing.

Outside of turning every second incident into an anti-fighting stance, Cox has generally been fairly objective and mostly non-annoying over the last year or two. I have no idea about Simmons however, the guy is a clownshoe.

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneathhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article. Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him. :( ::)

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. Itís part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I was laughing, they're even hearing about it out west.

One of the Vancouver papers I saw weighed in on it.

With the gloves off and after suffering some professional embarrassment for the dispute, with no relationship between themselves and the Leafs GM & coach, Cox & Simmons will be gunning for Wilson & Burke from here on out at every opportunity. Just like they did when Quinn cut them off.

Both of them suffered for that. Cox got let go from the FAN590 and had to change his ways. It's not a fight they can really win for their papers long term - particularly with the club on the upswing.

That's what I have a hard time understanding. These are the same idiots who tried to pick fights with Quinn...its the same guys that had Joe Nieuwendyk banning Toronto papers from the dressing room and being quite surprised about how/what they wrote about the players/team/coaches/GM/etc.

It's not like this is a new thing for Cox/Simmons to call Leafs fans stupid, accuse the organization of lying and being "against the media".

No sympathy for them whatsoever. The ironic thing is the number of "stories" they have about the Leafs will probably swell as their access to the team is cut off...because of all of their "unnamed sources" which is essentially writer lingo for "I get to make stuff up"

Both the papers suck there, and both the reference reporters suck. it has been the same for 20 plus years in TO. it is never going to change. They both may get fired, but there will always be someone worse then them to replace them. It is the crappy circle that is reporters in TO

Outside of turning every second incident into an anti-fighting stance, Cox has generally been fairly objective and mostly non-annoying over the last year or two.

I agree.

I'd also say that Cox's ability to express himself is well above average. Ignoring the quality of his research or opinion, he's a good writer - better than most sports writers.

But I strongly suspect that the change in his tone came from a change in Leafs management and coaches he was dealing with and more importantly, a change in what he had to do to survive.

FAN590 cutting him loose had to sting. And a lot of folks had the sort of comments for him that the Simmons article linked above experienced. It couldn't continue because he was getting tuned out.

Leafs fans, like the fans of any team, are going to have some bias and hope for the best. A few might enjoy seeing the team endlessly bashed but the majority won't. It wears thin.

So to his credit, the tone of what he published improved for his survival. From that, he got his FAN590 gig back. But when I review his twitter feed, the core of the guy is basically unchanged.

I agree completely. Cox is a writer of considerable talent but his ego is even bigger and that is his Achilles' Heel.

Title: Re: Media Thread
Post by: cw on December 06, 2011, 01:09:16 PM

Here's the article by Simmons that triggered Burke cutting him offhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/01/burke-off-to-afghanistanYou canít be both busy and absent when youíre another world apart. There isnít regular cell phone coverage in Kandahar. The communication isnít that easy.

Here's some of Burke's response to that:http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/07/04/burke-deeply-offended-by-columnist/ďThe night before the trade deadline, I made sure we had Skype contact so that I could talk to any free agents we needed to talk to,Ē Burke said. ďMy cell worked great on the base. We had a backup landline.Ē

Most of the UFAs do not reside in Toronto so it shouldn't matter where one calls from.

Obviously, Simmons presumed poor communications and never checked with the Leafs on them or Burke's schedule - that he wasn't posing for pics when free agency was going down - he was on the phone a bunch of the time.

Simmons got caught inaccurately filling in some blanks and Burke held him accountable.

Here's the article by Simmons that triggered Burke cutting him offhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/01/burke-off-to-afghanistanYou canít be both busy and absent when youíre another world apart. There isnít regular cell phone coverage in Kandahar. The communication isnít that easy.

Here's some of Burke's response to that:http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/07/04/burke-deeply-offended-by-columnist/ďThe night before the trade deadline, I made sure we had Skype contact so that I could talk to any free agents we needed to talk to,Ē Burke said. ďMy cell worked great on the base. We had a backup landline.Ē

Most of the UFAs do not reside in Toronto so it shouldn't matter where one calls from.

Obviously, Simmons presumed poor communications and never checked with the Leafs on them or Burke's schedule - that he wasn't posing for pics when free agency was going down - he was on the phone a bunch of the time.

Simmons got caught inaccurately filling in some blanks and Burke held him accountable.

I forgot about that article, I now remember how ridiculous it was. He even mentioned it on his Sunday morning show "The Reporters with Dave Hodge" and I can't recall other guys backing him up on it. Oh Steve, stirring the pot and you got your hand burned..tsk tsk.

Here's the article by Simmons that triggered Burke cutting him offhttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/01/burke-off-to-afghanistanYou canít be both busy and absent when youíre another world apart. There isnít regular cell phone coverage in Kandahar. The communication isnít that easy.

Here's some of Burke's response to that:http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/07/04/burke-deeply-offended-by-columnist/ďThe night before the trade deadline, I made sure we had Skype contact so that I could talk to any free agents we needed to talk to,Ē Burke said. ďMy cell worked great on the base. We had a backup landline.Ē

Most of the UFAs do not reside in Toronto so it shouldn't matter where one calls from.

Obviously, Simmons presumed poor communications and never checked with the Leafs on them or Burke's schedule - that he wasn't posing for pics when free agency was going down - he was on the phone a bunch of the time.

Simmons got caught inaccurately filling in some blanks and Burke held him accountable.

It's almost like these hack reporters have degenerated into cynical misanthropes the way their articles seem to exude anger and tantrum writing. It seems like everything the Leafs do is a point of utmost contention. Either the management is there to destroy the franchise further than it already has or the Leafs exist solely to play the public as chumps.

Nik stated earlier that this is what beat writers do to survive. Well, the bias and distortion in their reporting and the heavy slant against the Leafs regardless of reality really doesn't inspire me to read their columns. It's not even hard to find examples anymore: "Burke is becoming an embarassment." Just scrolling through the comments people are just deriding Simmons like there's no tomorrow, and its only a matter of time before people move away completely to more level headed journalism and opinion pieces.

I've moved away from Cox, Simmons et al. and found a new guard of James Mirtle, Jonas Siegel and even to a lesser extent, Mike Brophy amongst a couple of others. There's many more options for Leafs coverage than in the past and sooner or later it will catch up to Simmons and Cox.

I've moved away from Cox, Simmons et al. and found a new guard of James Mirtle, Jonas Siegel and even to a lesser extent, Mike Brophy amongst a couple of others. There's many more options for Leafs coverage than in the past and sooner or later it will catch up to Simmons and Cox.

I don't think you're alone. Far from it. Eventually, someone at the Sun is going to figure out there's a better bang for their buck to fill that space. And that will draw more clicks or ads than perpetual garbage from someone like Simmons.

I've been reading hockey writers in all 30 NHL cities for a long time. Compared to a lot of them, I think he's a bad hockey writer. The internet will eventually allow readers to see that and compare him to good Leafs blogs or even sites like this and they'll migrate accordingly. Simmons and Sun Media are not just competing with 3 other papers any more. Their piece of the revenue pie is dwindling with increased competition. Trolling for clicks can only stave off the inevitable for so long.

Yeah, just to re-state this because it seems as though people have missed what I was saying by giant leaps and bounds what I said was that Beat writers need to get scoops and generate page views, which is why they need accurate information. I didn't say they need to be sensational or negative or anything of the sort.

Well, the bias and distortion in their reporting and the heavy slant against the Leafs regardless of reality really doesn't inspire me to read their columns. It's not even hard to find examples anymore: "Burke is becoming an embarassment." Just scrolling through the comments people are just deriding Simmons like there's no tomorrow, and its only a matter of time before people move away completely to more level headed journalism and opinion pieces.

I know we don't like to acknowledge this much because we're all of a particular genus(the internet savvy Leafs fan) but I think you're maybe missing that we here in cyber-land are not the be all and end all when it comes to Leafs fandom. We tend to be middle class, white collar-y types and students and die-hards which informs what we want to read and digest in terms of Leafs information. There are lots of other people with appetites for other things.

I mean, not to drive the point home too hard, but if I'm confronted with the fact that Simmons writes stuff that's distorted, slanted and short on factual information in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator I don't immediately think "Oh no, how will he survive at the Sun?"

Report about the sport, the players that are playing and what the coach/GM tells you. That's the job. It's not to ascertain exactly what injury Armstrong or Reimer has.

Yeah, that's just not true. The reality is that people are so eager for accurate reporting on things that NHL teams make it a point not to disclose(precise injuries, trade rumours) that a reporter who was consistently right about those topics would see a ton of following both on twitter and at his column. The reality is that driving traffic is their job. Their job isn't to write press releases for the Leafs, I can read those if I want at the team's site.

A reporter following the team should be looking for something nobody else has and that informs us about the team otherwise why am I even reading them? I've got no interest in reading team-approved puff pieces and I can find out about the line-ups when I watch the game.

Well evidently he's looking but has no sources. Expecting to get the scoop from the GM himself is rather hopeful IMO.

Writing a child-like article in response to not getting what you want (he feels he's being freezed-out) is, quite frankly, pathetic.

Take a page out of Dreger's book. Get some real sources. If he can't, he should report what he can. If that's the equivalent of a Leafs press report then he's not the best journalist out there and he should accept that. If the Sun decides he's not good at his job (shich he isn't) then they can hire someone who's better connected.

if I'm confronted with the fact that Simmons writes stuff that's distorted, slanted and short on factual information in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator I don't immediately think "Oh no, how will he survive at the Sun?"

That's right and I think that's why I don't really pay attention when guys like Simmons or, say Garrioch, spout out of something. It's like a pop culture enthusiast complaining about the factual validity of a National Enquirer article.

As for Cox, he actually has the capacity to be a great writer/reporter so maybe thats why it bothers me when he delves into the immature and innacurate.

I mean, not to drive the point home too hard, but if I'm confronted with the fact that Simmons writes stuff that's distorted, slanted and short on factual information in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator I don't immediately think "Oh no, how will he survive at the Sun?"

What was it Burke said about the Sun a few years back? It's only good for lining bird cages or something. ;)

I mean, not to drive the point home too hard, but if I'm confronted with the fact that Simmons writes stuff that's distorted, slanted and short on factual information in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator I don't immediately think "Oh no, how will he survive at the Sun?"

What was it Burke said about the Sun a few years back? It's only good for lining bird cages or something. ;)

"The Sun has great value if you own a puppy or a parakeet" Brian Burke, October, 2010

I have the feeling that when the Leafs win the cup, types like Simmons and Cox will be criticizing the organization for something, whether it is playing the veterans, playing the prospects or making a trade deadline deal to pick up a player or two that helped the team win the cup.

I have the feeling that when the Leafs win the cup, types like Simmons and Cox will be criticizing the organization for something, whether it is playing the veterans, playing the prospects or making a trade deadline deal to pick up a player or two that helped the team win the cup.

I mean, not to drive the point home too hard, but if I'm confronted with the fact that Simmons writes stuff that's distorted, slanted and short on factual information in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator I don't immediately think "Oh no, how will he survive at the Sun?"

What was it Burke said about the Sun a few years back? It's only good for lining bird cages or something. ;)

"The Sun has great value if you own a puppy or a parakeet" Brian Burke, October, 2010

I mean, not to drive the point home too hard, but if I'm confronted with the fact that Simmons writes stuff that's distorted, slanted and short on factual information in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator I don't immediately think "Oh no, how will he survive at the Sun?"

What was it Burke said about the Sun a few years back? It's only good for lining bird cages or something. ;)

"The Sun has great value if you own a puppy or a parakeet" Brian Burke, October, 2010

I assume we're also talking about a puppy or parakeet with low standards.

I mean, not to drive the point home too hard, but if I'm confronted with the fact that Simmons writes stuff that's distorted, slanted and short on factual information in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator I don't immediately think "Oh no, how will he survive at the Sun?"

What was it Burke said about the Sun a few years back? It's only good for lining bird cages or something. ;)

"The Sun has great value if you own a puppy or a parakeet" Brian Burke, October, 2010

I assume we're also talking about a puppy or parakeet with low standards.

He talks about his daily life, the Leafs involvement in community service, trading with certain GMs, stopping bullying, and of course his involvement with the LGBT community and Brenden's legacy. It's also the same interview where Burke talked about the potential barn fight with Kevin Lowe.

I have the feeling that when the Leafs win the cup, types like Simmons and Cox will be criticizing the organization for something, whether it is playing the veterans, playing the prospects or making a trade deadline deal to pick up a player or two that helped the team win the cup.

I have the feeling that when the Leafs win the cup, types like Simmons and Cox will be criticizing the organization for something, whether it is playing the veterans, playing the prospects or making a trade deadline deal to pick up a player or two that helped the team win the cup.

It's different in here... I'm actually in customer service and feel comfortable with it but when it comes to stuff like that I just clam up. Had I served him, I would have been fine but just going up and saying Hi? different story. I don't know why. You should have seen me last year... I wrote about my experience in a small room with a bunch of Hall of Famers when I was invited to the after party of the Oldtimers Hockey Challenge at the York Regional police's private club. It was amazing and everything but I was nervous wreck when introducing myself and posing for pictures. :-\

It's different in here... I'm actually in customer service and feel comfortable with it but when it comes to stuff like that I just clam up. Had I served him, I would have been fine but just going up and saying Hi? different story. I don't know why. You should have seen me last year... I wrote about my experience in a small room with a bunch of Hall of Famers when I was invited to the after party of the Oldtimers Hockey Challenge at the York Regional police's private club. It was amazing and everything but I was nervous wreck when introducing myself and posing for pictures. :-\

You know, I have a theory about this. You're not shy; you just have personal boundaries that you don't want others to transgress. IMO a healthy thing. Whereas celebrities, in their quest for fame, have intentionally let fall away any personal boundaries. (Think Kardashians for the extreme example of this.) And so you, as a more fastidious and self-regarding person, naturally recoil at the vulgarity that necessarily attends celebrity.

That, I argue, is a perfectly natural reaction and one that you should be proud of.

It's different in here... I'm actually in customer service and feel comfortable with it but when it comes to stuff like that I just clam up. Had I served him, I would have been fine but just going up and saying Hi? different story. I don't know why. You should have seen me last year... I wrote about my experience in a small room with a bunch of Hall of Famers when I was invited to the after party of the Oldtimers Hockey Challenge at the York Regional police's private club. It was amazing and everything but I was nervous wreck when introducing myself and posing for pictures. :-\

You know, I have a theory about this. You're not shy; you just have personal boundaries that you don't want others to transgress. IMO a healthy thing. Whereas celebrities, in their quest for fame, have intentionally let fall away any personal boundaries. (Think Kardashians for the extreme example of this.) And so you, as a more fastidious and self-regarding person, naturally recoil at the vulgarity that necessarily attends celebrity.

That, I argue, is a perfectly natural reaction and one that you should be proud of.

Hey thanks! Yeah, part of it was that he was already being bugged by a bunch of guys. Hard to know if he was enjoying that or just playing nice. Anyway, again... thanks for the kind words.

It's different in here... I'm actually in customer service and feel comfortable with it but when it comes to stuff like that I just clam up. Had I served him, I would have been fine but just going up and saying Hi? different story. I don't know why. You should have seen me last year... I wrote about my experience in a small room with a bunch of Hall of Famers when I was invited to the after party of the Oldtimers Hockey Challenge at the York Regional police's private club. It was amazing and everything but I was nervous wreck when introducing myself and posing for pictures. :-\

You know, I have a theory about this. You're not shy; you just have personal boundaries that you don't want others to transgress. IMO a healthy thing. Whereas celebrities, in their quest for fame, have intentionally let fall away any personal boundaries. (Think Kardashians for the extreme example of this.) And so you, as a more fastidious and self-regarding person, naturally recoil at the vulgarity that necessarily attends celebrity.

That, I argue, is a perfectly natural reaction and one that you should be proud of.

Hey thanks! Yeah, part of it was that he was already being bugged by a bunch of guys. Hard to know if he was enjoying that or just playing nice. Anyway, again... thanks for the kind words.

Kypreos' son used to have hockey games right after mine at the rink that I played rec league at, he was always surrounded by a group of middle-aged men.

ďI donít pick those fights,Ē Burke says. ďThe media pick those fights. My relationship with the media is excellent. With certain members of the media that, in my mind, arenít professional, itís not very good and it never will be. I donít ever want to be on good terms with unprofessional people. And if that means we have a clash with people who work for the owners, then we have a clash. Iím not going to change how I do things based on who owns the team.Ē

ďI donít pick those fights,Ē Burke says. ďThe media pick those fights. My relationship with the media is excellent. With certain members of the media that, in my mind, arenít professional, itís not very good and it never will be. I donít ever want to be on good terms with unprofessional people. And if that means we have a clash with people who work for the owners, then we have a clash. Iím not going to change how I do things based on who owns the team.Ē

When will the media types realize they are not dealing with a puppet GM with no testicular fortitude?

It would be okay if the media types reported fairly what is going on in Leaf land, whether it was critical or not of the organization or individuals within the organization, but at least be fair and accurate about it. That would improve the rapport between the reporters and those responsible in the organization.

By all accounts, Burke is more available to the media than most GMs in pro sports. The guy does all sorts of interviews each week, many longer-winded pieces including that one done by the Score (barn fight, etc) where he reveals all sorts of candid information and stories that you never hear from other execs, and everything he went through with his son, he was still available and open.

If certain members of the media have alienated the guy then they have done so out of their own stupidity and poor choices of words in print. Too bad for them. The Sun and many of their writers past and present (Strachan, Simmons) have been despised by sports execs in this town - hockey in particular. All they do is burn bridges and blame others for starting the fire.

I live outside Ottawa and the media compared to that in Toronto is absolutely stupid. A bunch of morons. A couple of weeks ago, an Ottawa Sun writer, not sure who it was gave a top 5 list as to why the Senators will make the playoffs. Sure, Ottawa has done better than a lot expected, but for them to make the playoffs, I ruptured my spleen laughing so hard. They said the reasons were Alfreddson, Craig Anderson, their coach and I forget the other 2 reasons, I guess they weren't important. No. Ottawa will not make the playoffs. There are too many better teams ahead of them.

While you guys deal with obnoxious idiots, I have to deal with stupid idiots.

If I was a Leafs media person, I would ask Chara a question that as a Leaf fan we need an answer. Chara, what was going through your mind as Lupul was scoring a PP goal while you were sitting in the penalty box?

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't find Will Ferrell all that funny.

Funny is obviously a subjective thing but he does at least seem committed to being weird. From the funny or die stuff to recording beer ads that only play in small markets in Iowa at the very least he's not just sitting back and cashing big checks to make sequels.

The summer was spent with battle lines being drawn. On one side, bloggers like stat evangelist Tyler Dellow and the folks at Pension Plan Puppets, all but screaming that GM Dave Nonis's roster and coach Randy Carlyle's systems were set up for failure. On the other side, the Leafs themselves, contemptuously dismissive of so-called "fancy stats," and their cheerleaders in the Toronto media, like TSN's Leafs mouthpiece Darren Dreger and the Sun's Steve Simmons.

The corsi metric and the Kessel/Bozak/JVR line just isn't compatible, and never will be, I would think. The leafs need a big center who can control the play down low. We used to have a certain swede who was good at that.

The corsi metric and the Kessel/Bozak/JVR line just isn't compatible, and never will be, I would think. The leafs need a big center who can control the play down low. We used to have a certain swede who was good at that.

Kessel was able to be just about a 50% possession player under Wilson. But every single player's possession stats have fallen under Carlyle so...with a new coach I don't see why they couldn't be good in those areas.

It's always fun when someone declares victory in a game where they make the rules.

And the fact that a month ago, the Leafs were closer to home ice than being eliminated. I don't buy this "stats catching up" argument that made the freefall inevitable... a healthy Bernier, a reversal of some bad luck, and its not hard to envision a seed above wildcard, despite all the convenient naysayers coming out of the woodwork.

And the fact that a month ago, the Leafs were closer to home ice than being eliminated. I don't buy this "stats catching up" argument that made the freefall inevitable... a healthy Bernier, a reversal of some bad luck, and its not hard to envision a seed above wildcard, despite all the convenient naysayers coming out of the woodwork.

Makes you wonder what the article would have been!

But that's the whole point I think - that the way the team was playing, they needed everything to break lucky for them to make it. Bernier missed what - 5 games? What bad luck did the team suffer? I think the point is that the team had to have a high SH% to cover for the number of shots they gave up per game and the number of goals they gave up per game despite great goaltending. It's not a matter of predicting an 8 game slide, it's a matter of predicting that this style of play will catch up to the team somehow - whether it is a stretch of the goaltending playing below .920 or the SH% dipping slightly, the way the team played could not cover for the random variances in the season of those sorts of things.

And the fact that a month ago, the Leafs were closer to home ice than being eliminated. I don't buy this "stats catching up" argument that made the freefall inevitable... a healthy Bernier, a reversal of some bad luck, and its not hard to envision a seed above wildcard, despite all the convenient naysayers coming out of the woodwork.

Makes you wonder what the article would have been!

Except would those things have fundamentally changed our perception of the team? We may want to say that there's a seismic difference between finishing 7th and finishing 10th but the reality is that in most cases there isn't.

The Leafs, on talent, were a team that realistically should have finished anywhere from 5th to, say, 12th. They'll finish somewhere in there on the low end. If things had broken a little more their way, fewer injuries at center and Bernier not wearing out/getting hurt at the worst possible moment, they'd have finished a little higher but they'd still be a pretty mediocre team.

So I don't know if there's a concrete lesson to take from any of that. Whatever contributed to the team's bad shot differential didn't prevent them from finishing where their talent would dictate.

It's always fun when someone declares victory in a game where they make the rules.

And the fact that a month ago, the Leafs were closer to home ice than being eliminated. I don't buy this "stats catching up" argument that made the freefall inevitable... a healthy Bernier, a reversal of some bad luck, and its not hard to envision a seed above wildcard, despite all the convenient naysayers coming out of the woodwork.

Makes you wonder what the article would have been!

It really doesn't matter because no matter what, the media would have sensationalized something anyway. It's their job to sell papers and to get attention/discussion to a topic. How can the media say that the collapse was due to Bernier's injury and Reimer's bad play when Reimer was only in net for a few of those games. If Bernier was that good, the Leafs would have won a few of those games he was in. Not only that, but if the forwards had played better, got a few more goals and the defence played better defensively, then the collapse may not have happened. What about giving up 2 short handed goals in the same game, on the same powerplay, or most of those short handed goals during the season?

Not everything can be attributed to Reimer's play, it is a factor, but so are many other things which led to a collapse by the entire team and not just one player.

And the fact that a month ago, the Leafs were closer to home ice than being eliminated. I don't buy this "stats catching up" argument that made the freefall inevitable... a healthy Bernier, a reversal of some bad luck, and its not hard to envision a seed above wildcard, despite all the convenient naysayers coming out of the woodwork.

Makes you wonder what the article would have been!

Except would those things have fundamentally changed our perception of the team? We may want to say that there's a seismic difference between finishing 7th and finishing 10th but the reality is that in most cases there isn't.

The Leafs, on talent, were a team that realistically should have finished anywhere from 5th to, say, 12th. They'll finish somewhere in there on the low end. If things had broken a little more their way, fewer injuries at center and Bernier not wearing out/getting hurt at the worst possible moment, they'd have finished a little higher but they'd still be a pretty mediocre team.

So I don't know if there's a concrete lesson to take from any of that. Whatever contributed to the team's bad shot differential didn't prevent them from finishing where their talent would dictate.

Agreed. But the difference from 7th to 10th is the difference between reading a "I told you so" column, and enjoying your team in a round of post season play. It might also be the difference between a significant teardown and a retune in the offseason.

I think the fact that the leafs dropped so spectacularly in so short a time to me, at least, gives me the opinion that they found a way via playing style to minimize the significance of the corsi, rather than this deterministic attitude that the team was destined to miss the playoffs and be as awful as they've shown over the last 3-4 weeks. For the majority of the season, the Leafs found a way to play competitive hockey, at least on the scoresheet.

I think everyting is getting blown out of proportion. The team is not as bad as it is made out to be and was not as good as it's winning streaks indicated. I recall when Randy was hired to coach, I asked myself, why are we getting a guy who was run out of the West coast and only recently.I felt it was a bad choice then and it has proven to be a horrible choice now. I think we are only one first line centre and one shut down defenseman away from having a real decent teamÖ.with one caveatÖ.the right coach for the toronto market. So please stay away from old Loaf defensemen. Perhaps one of the two of these players are in our system now, perhaps we could make 3 changes on defense and add Marlies and let Franson, Gleason and maybe trade Gunner in part of a deal for a decent First Line centre. In any case we do not need to blow up this team, we need to amend it, add to it and finally rid ourselves of the dead wood, Orr, McClemment etc.

Randy Carlyle: F.Give Carlyle credit for this much: He recognized there was a problem right from the start. Prior to the first game of the season, the veteran coach had told Bob McKenzie that he wanted his group to be more of a possession team. The problem was he was left saying it right until the end. The more Carlyle tried to correct the issue, the worse and worse intheir shot differentials, zone time and just about any other tangible area of defensive play possible became as the season wore on. One doesnít have to look much further than the Ducks, who have rebounded marvellously without Carlyle, to see a longstanding problem, and thereís far too much of a pattern here to chalk that all up to coincidence...

I have to guess that a lot of the new channels will get things like ESPN stuff and B games from properties they already own the rights to.

My hope is that they adjust to the fact that the Sportsnet has the NHL and they try and market to more NBA, soccer, football coverage rather than just picking up random hockey games, AHL or CHL games.

The problem there, I'd guess, is that with leagues like that they probably would have to negotiate expanded rights deals because the NBA in particular probably wants to limit supply to push die-hards towards the League Pass option. That strikes me as less of an issue with things like the CHL, CFL and Curling.

Title: Re: Media Thread
Post by: Deebo on May 06, 2014, 12:11:33 PM

http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/story/?id=451378

Quote

More Sports and More Choice

Key programming highlights that viewers can expect to see across TSN's suite of five channels include the following:

- More live game coverage Ė spanning leagues including NBA, MLS, NCAA and more

- More choice of games and events taking place at the same time Ė including multiple curling sheets from Season of Champions events, multiple matches from Barclays Premier League, every game from NCAA March Madness, multiple court feeds from Gland Slam tennis events, and more

- Expanded coverage of marquee live events Ė including the World Juniors, Grey Cup, and FIFA Women's World Cup Canada 2015

- NHL hockey Ė including 26 Toronto Maple Leafs games, 52 Ottawa Senators games, as well as pre-season games (available on a regional basis), plus local hockey programming generated by production expansion at TSN Radio stations in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Winnipeg and Edmonton

I don't know where it's worth posting to, but advanced stats guy Tyler Dellow (@mc79hockey) has been hired by the Oilers. Congratulations to him, and I hope he still puts out thoughts on his Twitter feed.

LOL...... they announced there's gonna be a statue in front of the ACC representing Leafs from all eras... Sun comments are hysterical, the sort of thing I'd expect to read here:"Modern day one will be an orange cone""The same orange cone we're currently paying 7 million a season?""Doesn't matter, it's still gonna be moving faster than any current Leaf"

The Montreal Gazette's reporter Jack Todd on why Toronto is a 'haled' sports town, and what led to this...

For years, with the two franchises in different conferences, people in Montreal were relatively indifferent to the Leafs. They spent most of their energy hating Boston, and there wasnít much left for Toronto.

Around the turn of the millennium, I spent a lot of time covering the Leafs in the playoffs. The Canadiens were struggling and Pat Quinnís Leafs were pretty good. I didnít mind: the blunt-spoken Quinn always gave good quote and the team was good, if not great.

So what changed? Basically this: People in high places in the Toronto media world (especially Sportsnet, TSN and the CBC) decided to stuff all the Toronto teams down our throats while ignoring, attacking or disrespecting other pro teams right across the country.

The Montreal Gazette's reporter Jack Todd on why Toronto is a 'haled' sports town, and what led to this...

For years, with the two franchises in different conferences, people in Montreal were relatively indifferent to the Leafs. They spent most of their energy hating Boston, and there wasnít much left for Toronto.

Around the turn of the millennium, I spent a lot of time covering the Leafs in the playoffs. The Canadiens were struggling and Pat Quinnís Leafs were pretty good. I didnít mind: the blunt-spoken Quinn always gave good quote and the team was good, if not great.

So what changed? Basically this: People in high places in the Toronto media world (especially Sportsnet, TSN and the CBC) decided to stuff all the Toronto teams down our throats while ignoring, attacking or disrespecting other pro teams right across the country.

"Jim Hughson hates the Leafs - like, despises them. Craig Simpson hates them so much, he refused to have anything to do with them, as a player. Those two are employed for that very reason. Cherry went on an anti-JVR rant after the Emelin hit. The call on both hits was also remarkably biased in favor of the Canadiens. WIth the Martin hit, they claimed it was late by slowing the video down to 1/10th speed and then counting steamboats. In real time, it was less than a half second after the puck left his stick. With the Emelin hit, they wiped it aside as a non-issue, before Cherry ranted in favor of it. Not sure what you're talking about with any of these points. Most of what you wrote is just blatantly untrue. Maybe get your hearing checked or just take off the bleu, blanc et rouge blinders."

I'm sorry but what is the point of posting that article? It has nothing to do with the Maple Leafs and is just a thinly updated sort of piece we used to read all the time about why the Leafs were always the National broadcast on Saturday nights even when they weren't very good. It's a cheap and transparent attempt to gin up outrage and clicks and I really think we should be savvier about these things than by pretending it's anything other than a wannabe hot take designed to rile people up.

That said, only slightly less ludicrous is the idea that the blandest sportscasters in the world are motivated by "hate" for any of the billion dollar entertainment conglomerates they cover. I especially like the idea that Craig Simpson's decision 30 years ago to not play for the Ballard-era Maple Leafs is being used not as evidence of remarkably good judgment on the part of a teenager but instead is proof of his lifelong vendetta towards an organization that's changed ownership/stadium/uniforms umpteen times since then.

They have decent content and are currently staffed by Toronto sports writers that I don't despise. Mirtle will be the Editor-in-Chief for the Toronto chapter.

They've basically become the home of talented Toronto-based sports writers who have been let go at their previous outlets: Eric Koreen, John Lott, David Alter, Sean Fitz-Gerald. It's a subscription-based model but given the people involved it's probably worth the money (I think it's like $3-4 a month).

I don't know if anyone here gets THN in hard copy. I do, but not so much for the writing (Ken Campbell, ugh) but for the design/layout/artwork. I don't know who their creative team is, but the visual impact of the magazine is miles ahead of the writing. The latest issue just landed in my mailbox today, and the cover is really quite good -- a drawing of McDavid and Matthews comic-superhero style. (They tout them as #1 & #2 on their list of 100 People of Power & Influence ... hmmm.)

Anyway, just thought I'd call this out. I've been impressed for some time by their type treatments & page layout, often very clever while not being fussy.

I am really really excited about this, and tempted to fork over the money: http://www.tsn.ca/han-hopes-to-challenge-conventional-thinking-in-coaching-ranks-1.623971

You might remember Jack Han (@ml_han on Twitter) from this clip about the Leafs that Carlton posted earlier this year:Invalid Tweet ID

Quote

Those videos have opened doors for Han to communicate directly with those he needs to deal with ó open-minded, elite-level coaches looking for every edge possible. ďNHL, KHL, CHL, NCAA, there has been interest in the clips,Ē said Han, whose marketing background and video experience served him well in these short, snappy, insightful items. ďI've tried to make them related to winning.Ē

Han's goal is to join a professional coaching staff next season that is prepared to challenge conventional thinking. He said there are currently two intriguing possibilities, one with an ECHL team and another alongside an AHL head coach on an NHL-affiliated minor-league team. Han is open to do some part-time consulting work this season, and may do that with the aforementioned teams, but what he really wants for next season is to, as he put it, ďHave some skin in the game.Ē

Some of the coaches Han has had dialogue with told him they like how he frames his use of analytics in coaching: ďYou have to find a way to optimize what the coaches are already doing. Coaching time is so valuable and there's only so much you can do. I want to use [analytics] as a teaching tool and an efficiency tool, not necessarily what it's being used as or perceived as ó only an evaluation tool.Ē

He has signed on with The Athletic TO as their (hockey) systems analyst, which means we'll be seeing more of his videos as they pertain to the Leafs. He is tracking some of the stats that don't usually make it to the box score.

Listening to the FAN a bit today. Tier 3 hosts during the Christmas holidays... just chatting about who you could move to get a defenseman. As the Taylor Hall for Ekman-Larsson trade indicated, the market for top-four defenseman is very difficult. Guys like JVR and TyBo are nice pieces but the most they could garner is perhaps a defensive prospect that MAY turn into a top-four defenseman in a few years. Not a bad move but they may as well just draft D and hang on to the vets in the meantime.

A few callers were a bit 'frustrated' with multiple blown leads and I thought, dude, chill out. It's year two of a serious, to the bone rebuild and they're arguably ahead of schedule. Scoring goals with a legion of guys in their early-twenties. There are prospects being developed right now and the Leafs have plenty of picks in the next two years. I'm guessing they'll pick more than their share of defensemen in the hopes of hitting pay dirt with a top-four or even top-two prospect.

So again, draft and develop. Draft and develop. What we're probably looking at for the next few years and that's great. I haven't had this much hope and/or fun in years.

Listening to the FAN a bit today. Tier 3 hosts during the Christmas holidays... just chatting about who you could move to get a defenseman. As the Taylor Hall for Ekman-Larsson trade indicated, the market for top-four defenseman is very difficult. Guys like JVR and TyBo are nice pieces but the most they could garner is perhaps a defensive prospect that MAY turn into a top-four defenseman in a few years. Not a bad move but they may as well just draft D and hang on to the vets in the meantime.

A few callers were a bit 'frustrated' with multiple blown leads and I thought, dude, chill out. It's year two of a serious, to the bone rebuild and they're arguably ahead of schedule. Scoring goals with a legion of guys in their early-twenties. There are prospects being developed right now and the Leafs have plenty of picks in the next two years. I'm guessing they'll pick more than their share of defensemen in the hopes of hitting pay dirt with a top-four or even top-two prospect.

So again, draft and develop. Draft and develop. What we're probably looking at for the next few years and that's great. I haven't had this much hope and/or fun in years.

Oilers fans wish. ;) ;D

I think when you draft players of the calibre the Leafs have over the past 4/5 years then you have to consider that your best chance to win is when those high impact rookies are on their ELC's.

I'm not saying trade the farm, but they do need to plug the holes in the lineup if they can without compromising the overall rebuild.

Honestly, I think the Leafs are going to have a top 5-10 second half, which would be helped even by strengthening the 4-6 spots on D.

Way to many stats.. people are getting way to deep into the inner works of the sport. I think it takes away from the game, so when I read any thing about a game and it goes deep into stats, I just drop it and move on. I have been watching for over 50 yrs, and I do know the game and how it works, but one thing I don't need is people taking apart every play right down to every second of every move.

Way to many stats.. people are getting way to deep into the inner works of the sport. I think it takes away from the game, so when I read any thing about a game and it goes deep into stats, I just drop it and move on. I have been watching for over 50 yrs, and I do know the game and how it works, but one thing I don't need is people taking apart every play right down to every second of every move.

That's fine, this is sport, not something really important, so people can enjoy it at whatever level they want.

I'm kind of with you, actually, but not because I have anything against more complex stats. I just think the ones being discussed so far don't really explain the game well. In the future they'll get it.

I hate when my belief systems are challenged by the truth. But I am with Nutman on this one. A little stats goes a long way. I just love the game and now its better than ever, so much faster, so many great changes to speed up the game.

That's fine, this is sport, not something really important, so people can enjoy it at whatever level they want.

Exactly that. The thing is with advanced stats (in every sport, not necessarily just hockey), you know when it comes to management and behind the scenes - teams keep track of all those things, and keep personnel to monitor those exact things. Thus, fans who like numbers like to look at those things as well, as it gets them closer to the game/behind the scenes aspects of the game. I myself, being a numbers nerd, really started getting into raw stats and stuff by getting into Fantasy Hockey, and started getting into advanced stats after that. Hilariously enough, I really got deeper into advanced stats after the David Clarkson signing backfired, because I thought it was a good signing at the time based on his "intangibles" (grit, leadership, etc), while most of the AS community did not like the signing, and in the end he ended up being awful. At that point, I was like "maybe these guys are really onto something."

But yeah, if you want to watch the game and not think about anything beyond basic numbers (goals & assists), that's fine. If you want to dwelve into the effectiveness of players based on their advanced numbers, that's fine too. There's no need for one to poo-poo the other for any reason. If anything, it makes for more interesting debates (i.e: the eye test vs analytics debate over Jake Gardiner for years)

That's fine, this is sport, not something really important, so people can enjoy it at whatever level they want.

Exactly that. The thing is with advanced stats (in every sport, not necessarily just hockey), you know when it comes to management and behind the scenes - teams keep track of all those things, and keep personnel to monitor those exact things. Thus, fans who like numbers like to look at those things as well, as it gets them closer to the game/behind the scenes aspects of the game. I myself, being a numbers nerd, really started getting into raw stats and stuff by getting into Fantasy Hockey, and started getting into advanced stats after that. Hilariously enough, I really got deeper into advanced stats after the David Clarkson signing backfired, because I thought it was a good signing at the time based on his "intangibles" (grit, leadership, etc), while most of the AS community did not like the signing, and in the end he ended up being awful. At that point, I was like "maybe these guys are really onto something."

But yeah, if you want to watch the game and not think about anything beyond basic numbers (goals & assists), that's fine. If you want to dwelve into the effectiveness of players based on their advanced numbers, that's fine too. There's no need for one to poo-poo the other for any reason. If anything, it makes for more interesting debates (i.e: the eye test vs analytics debate over Jake Gardiner for years)

I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.

But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Well to answer your question, yes I can see game by game good things the Leafs are doing both individually and collectively as a team, but I don't watch the other 29 teams in the NHL on a regular basis so the advanced stats can help when comparing the Leafs overall stats to other teams. If I see Leafs and "Team X"* have the same number of points, but the advanced stats tell me the Leafs are actually winning while playing the right way, but "Team X" is sort of flukey and will come back down to earth, then that fills my heart with additional glee.

* - Team X may be one of Montreal, Ottawa or Vancouver for additional joy

I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.

But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Was the dress gold and white or black and blue?

It still blows my mind that, in spite of the optical illusions and deceptive visuals we encounter on a daily basis, people don't understand that cannot simply believe their eyes. Your eyes misinterpret what they see all too frequently.

The problem I have with the "I can see it with my own eyes" crowd was well put by Zee. I watch the Leafs but I don't have time to watch other teams with regularity so putting anything a Leaf does in any sort of context(how is Hyman as a penalty killer vs. other team's penalty killers) relies on numbers.

The people who have a problem with your more advanced numbers don't have a problem with context or trying to rate players across the league, they just want to do so on the basis of numbers that are subject to all manner of biases and outside factors that muddy the issue. They'll rate goalies by SV% and snipers by goals and defensemen by +/- so it's not the concept of numbers they dislike.

All advanced statistics are trying to do is separate the wheat from the chaff in the numbers we use. Is every attempt to quantify the sport going to work? No. But it's a worthwhile process to get at some important truths of the game that just can't be picked up on by only watching one team.

Extricating yourself from that pursuit is fine if you want to be a fan of a team but it is going to limit you when it comes to discussing the sport, especially now that some of these more complicated numbers have taken hold in NHL front offices.

I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.

But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Was the dress gold and white or black and blue?

It still blows my mind that, in spite of the optical illusions and deceptive visuals we encounter on a daily basis, people don't understand that cannot simply believe their eyes. Your eyes misinterpret what they see all too frequently.

It still blows my mind that, in spite of the optical illusions and deceptive visuals we encounter on a daily basis, people don't understand that cannot simply believe their eyes. Your eyes misinterpret what they see all too frequently.

Sort of the great contradiction in all of this is that for all the talk about stats heads being know it alls or arrogant it's only someone who rejected trying to put what we're seeing in proper context who would say that they're not subject to the sort of ingrained confirmation biases we all are.

Sort of the great contradiction in all of this is that for all the talk about stats heads being know it alls or arrogant it's only someone who rejected trying to put what we're seeing in proper context who would say that they're not subject to the sort of ingrained confirmation biases we all are.

Sort of the great contradiction in all of this is that for all the talk about stats heads being know it alls or arrogant it's only someone who rejected trying to put what we're seeing in proper context who would say that they're not subject to the sort of ingrained confirmation biases we all are.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtleReally excited for our new contributors: @mike_p_johnson, @AndrewStoeten and @dellowhockey will all be writing columns for @TheAthleticTO.

That's Mike Johnson and Tyler Dellow on the hockey side, and a Blue Jays blogger to add some voices to the baseball side.

I remember Mirtle flat out asked twitter users which former player they'd like to see the Athletic try to scoop up awhile back, and Johnson was the overwhelming favourite. So I'm glad we'll start to hear his voice again. I think he's been doing some work for the NHL Network since Sportsnet dropped him but obviously that doesn't do us Leafs fan much good.

And I've been very curious to see what Dellow's next public move was going to be since being let go by Edmonton. Will be good to have his writing back in the analytics community.

Yeah, Blundell wasn't the greatest, but Landsberg is annoyingly awful on TSN, and Brady is almost as bad.

There really isn't a good morning drive sports show right now.

Landsberg is an acquired taste I'll give you that. At least he has Naylor to balance him out in the morning, and Lansdberg has been doing sports talk all his professional life. The thing that bothered me most about Blundell on the FAN, was that he didn't even like sports. I remember from his time on the Edge he'd be clueless whenever Jason Barr did his sports report, and couldn't care less about anything to do with sports. Suddenly he's hired as the morning guy on a sports talk station -- bad idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nskZ5cPz30kThe closest we ever got in the Pat Quinn Era. 2002, overtime, Game Six, Conference Final. Carolina would go on to win the Cup. Couldn't find the Joe call but here's CBC.

Edit: Got it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ1e1270vrk... and we're stuck with Paul Romanuk calling the regional games while this legend is still on the radio. I swear if it wasn't a minute ahead I'd mute the TV audio and listen to the radio. Bownsie and Rick Jeannerette are regional homer legends.

Very nice photos. I always wondered what the view was like up there. That picture of Bob McGill brings back some memories -- I and a family member were walking towards the then Maple Leaf Gardens and I recognized the fellow near me as Bob McGill. Sure enough, got an autograph from him. In so doing, this wide-eyed kid comes up to me, and asks me who it was, so I tell him and he goes "Bob McGill?! Wow!". Haha.

On the 18th, POS blew up on air, belittling Andi (more than usual), the Leafs, fans, any differences of opinion, and literally invited them to not tune in (which I'd imagine is the opposite of what you want in media).

That night, his Twitter bio was edited to remove TSN employment reference. He hasn't been on Leafs Lunch since.

Today, Andi mentioned the 'new guy' starts next Friday or something like that (I'm getting this second hand).

On the 18th, POS blew up on air, belittling Andi (more than usual), the Leafs, fans, any differences of opinion, and literally invited them to not tune in (which I'd imagine is the opposite of what you want in media).

That night, his Twitter bio was edited to remove TSN employment reference. He hasn't been on Leafs Lunch since.

Today, Andi mentioned the 'new guy' starts next Friday or something like that (I'm getting this second hand).

More likely reason: Babcock went to Lou to defend Hyman's honour, and Lou took care of business as usual.

I don't mine someone on radio who provides a different opinion and isn't just a Leafs fan that will praise anything they do, but O'Sullivan was very difficult to listen to at times. I think Overdrive has the right mix of objective views...Hayes is the most fanboy of the 3, but he'll criticize the Leafs when it's warranted. O'Neill is a fan too but he gets disillusioned quickly when things go wrong and Noodles is the most objective and gives other players who aren't Leafs props all the time. That being said they all have a good rapport together and the show runs smoothly. On Leafs lunch, POS was just confrontational alot of the time, complaining about fans, and also got snippy with Andi on occasion, it was just not pleasant to listen to.

On the 18th, POS blew up on air, belittling Andi (more than usual), the Leafs, fans, any differences of opinion, and literally invited them to not tune in (which I'd imagine is the opposite of what you want in media).

That night, his Twitter bio was edited to remove TSN employment reference. He hasn't been on Leafs Lunch since.

Today, Andi mentioned the 'new guy' starts next Friday or something like that (I'm getting this second hand).

More likely reason: Babcock went to Lou to defend Hyman's honour, and Lou took care of business as usual.

I don't mine someone on radio who provides a different opinion and isn't just a Leafs fan that will praise anything they do, but O'Sullivan was very difficult to listen to at times. I think Overdrive has the right mix of objective views...Hayes is the most fanboy of the 3, but he'll criticize the Leafs when it's warranted. O'Neill is a fan too but he gets disillusioned quickly when things go wrong and Noodles is the most objective and gives other players who aren't Leafs props all the time. That being said they all have a good rapport together and the show runs smoothly. On Leafs lunch, POS was just confrontational alot of the time, complaining about fans, and also got snippy with Andi on occasion, it was just not pleasant to listen to.

On the 18th, POS blew up on air, belittling Andi (more than usual), the Leafs, fans, any differences of opinion, and literally invited them to not tune in (which I'd imagine is the opposite of what you want in media).

That night, his Twitter bio was edited to remove TSN employment reference. He hasn't been on Leafs Lunch since.

Today, Andi mentioned the 'new guy' starts next Friday or something like that (I'm getting this second hand).

Media is changing so rapidly now. As a print guy, I see my client base evaporating, and the strange thing is although we have great social media, no one really wants to pay the price for it.For a company like ESPN to cut 100 top people that is saying something.

Media is changing so rapidly now. As a print guy, I see my client base evaporating, and the strange thing is although we have great social media, no one really wants to pay the price for it.For a company like ESPN to cut 100 top people that is saying something.

So long as people expect to get professional content for free on the Web, it's a losing fight.

This isn't about people not going to espn.com to read Lebrun or the other low-salaried beat reporters they let go, this is just an opening salvo in the very real problem with how broadcast rights have been overvalued. ESPN is in a bind because people are cutting off cable subscriptions while still being obligated to pay leagues billions of dollars.

Media is changing so rapidly now. As a print guy, I see my client base evaporating, and the strange thing is although we have great social media, no one really wants to pay the price for it.For a company like ESPN to cut 100 top people that is saying something.

So long as people expect to get professional content for free on the Web, it's a losing fight.

They do, they have Nik and the Herminator

Title: Re: Media Thread
Post by: herman on May 09, 2017, 03:12:51 PM

I followed but if it's to ask permission to use content, don't bother. The answer is no. This is why you should have reporters.

Hilarious and cringe-worthy. The fruits of more than a decade of bumbling in Long Island.

Probably has more to do with what Milbury said about Subban.

Title: Re: Media Thread
Post by: Zee on June 03, 2018, 09:58:42 AM

I forgot how stupid Bill Watters is cause I haven't heard him in a number of years. Heard an interview he did on a podcast with Mike In Buffalo and man, his hot takes are ridiculous. Too many to break down here but in short:

Leafs can never win with Gardiner, trade him

Nylander is too soft, trade him

Babcock is the defacto GM of the main team and will only report to Shanahan

I forgot how stupid Bill Watters is cause I haven't heard him in a number of years. Heard an interview he did on a podcast with Mike In Buffalo and man, his hot takes are ridiculous. Too many to break down here but in short:

Leafs can never win with Gardiner, trade him

Nylander is too soft, trade him

Babcock is the defacto GM of the main team and will only report to Shanahan

You know, ZBBM, I think you mentioned this in another thread, but let's wait until the Leafs actually win a Stanley Cup before we start anointing Dubas, or Shanahan.

Yes, and relevant to the media, there are more than a few who have made a career dining out on the "Leafs have been a failure for so long" trope ... and they will be right there again, crowing, if the Leafs don't win it all this year.

Can you imagine the schadenfreude (and not just on the Island) if we get booted in the first round again?

The pressure was always going to be higher this next season. It went up exponentially with JT. We'll see who rises to the occasion.

You know, ZBBM, I think you mentioned this in another thread, but let's wait until the Leafs actually win a Stanley Cup before we start anointing Dubas, or Shanahan.

Yes, and relevant to the media, there are more than a few who have made a career dining out on the "Leafs have been a failure for so long" trope ... and they will be right there again, crowing, if the Leafs don't win it all this year.

Can you imagine the schadenfreude (and not just on the Island) if we get booted in the first round again?

The pressure was always going to be higher this next season. It went up exponentially with JT. We'll see who rises to the occasion.

Meh. I always found him painstakingly bland. I get HNIC isn't the institution it once was but I would have hated to see him replace MacLean one day.

Yeah, nothing against the guy or anything but I can't ever recall thinking he ever really added or detracted from a show. Maybe that's what some people want out of their hosts but I think it's fairly replaceable.

Meh. I always found him painstakingly bland. I get HNIC isn't the institution it once was but I would have hated to see him replace MacLean one day.

Yeah, nothing against the guy or anything but I can't ever recall thinking he ever really added or detracted from a show. Maybe that's what some people want out of their hosts but I think it's fairly replaceable.

I listened to him a lot on the FAN590 over the lunch hour. He was good, better then most hockey pucks who report these days. I would guess he is going to US programming in some capacity.

Lozo might genuinely be my favourite hockey writer right now, so it's a bummer if this means he won't be producing anymore pieces. But I have been eagerly waiting to see what Katie Nolan does next so it's promising that he'll be involved with that.

Hey gang, have you watched Sportsnet's reasonably competent NHL coverage and thought to yourself "I think they probably would make a good burger", well, do I have the restaurant who'll charge you eight bucks for a pint of Bud Light for you!

Hey gang, have you watched Sportsnet's reasonably competent NHL coverage and thought to yourself "I think they probably would make a good burger", well, do I have the restaurant who'll charge you eight bucks for a pint of Bud Light for you!

http://www.sportsnetgrill.ca/ (http://www.sportsnetgrill.ca/)

Admittedly I don't eat in Toronto very often but those prices seem nuts. $26 for a chicken caesar salad?! An $18 grilled cheese!?

edit: actually, a $27 plate of nachos is my favourite, only because guac is an extra $11! It's a share plate so I'd imagine it's an ok size but still.

Hey gang, have you watched Sportsnet's reasonably competent NHL coverage and thought to yourself "I think they probably would make a good burger", well, do I have the restaurant who'll charge you eight bucks for a pint of Bud Light for you!

http://www.sportsnetgrill.ca/ (http://www.sportsnetgrill.ca/)

Admittedly I don't eat in Toronto very often but those prices seem nuts. $26 for a chicken caesar salad?! An $18 grilled cheese!?

edit: actually, a $27 plate of nachos is my favourite, only because guac is an extra $11! It's a share plate so I'd imagine it's an ok size but still.

I don't know if things have changed since my time there but as I recall tipping wasn't as customary in Australia as it is here. So those prices are going to be in addition to a 15-20% gratuity at least.

But in general, I agree. If this is a good bar then those prices are pretty standard for good bars in downtown Toronto. That said I have some pretty strong suspicions that in addition to being fairly expensive, this place is also going to be pretty generic.

This story sounds unbelievable but oh so sickeningly true. According to reports, human trafficking is a "$99M industry". Perhaps you're wondering what does this have to do with sporting events? Everything, from PGA tournaments to World Cup to HOF inductions, etc., etc.

The Athletic Cleveland reporter Tom Reed unlocked the article below so that many can read the shocking underworld of human trafficking, be it female sex slaves or cheap labour. Though the article specifically deals with the above in the US, it can pertain to anywhere in the world, at any moment, at any event.

Last call from me for this story, which is now a free read. Sex in the shadows: Traffickers exact a human toll from major sporting events https://t.co/fqly3RPnae

I don't disagree here; at the same time, who is in charge of what you read and listen to?

I think that's a more complicated question than you think, especially now that there's massive overlap between people who are ostensibly the critical media and game coverage. Someone out there may not like a Damian Cox or Elliotte Friedman or whoever but if they're just consuming the games themselves or watching Sportsnet generally they're bound to hear from all manner of people that they may not personally hold in high regard. It's one of the many thorny issues in wrapping up rights-holders and analysis in one(or two) conglomerates.

But even in the pre-internet age I think that being a savvy media consumer in a local market meant paying attention to things even if they weren't necessarily in your wheel house. Reading Cox or Strachan might not have been your cup of tea but being a Leafs-focused columnist at one of the city's dailies was a big deal and their opinions informed and often created the discussion around the team. Besides, if you were reading the paper you may as well read the whole damn paper.

I realize that the modern trend is to be selective in the media you consume to the point that you only see/read/hear the people you like or who do their jobs the way you approve of but I think that sort of devalues the communal nature of being a sports fan.

I super agree with this and the above. Cherry and the like have had a huge influence on how the game is processed and played and enjoyed (how many people hate Corsi offhand and love fighting?). I'm glad there is a larger variety of voices now with the main(er)streaming of articulate fans who've made the jump into media prominence.

Again, I don't disagree. Are we still talking about Hofford's hyperbole here, or more of a general zeitgeist thing?

I was making sort of a separate point about something I've seen a lot of since Shanahan took over that I don't really think we saw before.

Is it Shanahan related, or is it more Bell/Rogers owning the team related? I'm not saying there's a nefarious conspiracy, but it would make sense for a media conglomerate to curate their message about a business property. It definitely appeared to 'stabilize' around Shanahan.

This story sounds unbelievable but oh so sickeningly true. According to reports, human trafficking is a "$99M industry". Perhaps you're wondering what does this have to do with sporting events? Everything, from PGA tournaments to World Cup to HOF inductions, etc., etc.

The Olympics is a HUGE factor in this.

Another intersection of sports events and the real world, but in the opposite direction is an apparent decrease in crime during games.

Their data set was rich, spanning the period from January of 2001 through December of 2013, a stretch in which they analyzed twelve Super Bowls, two hundred and four Bears games (a hundred and eighty-six on Sundays, eighteen on Monday nights), ninety-four N.B.A. Finals games, sixty-eight Bulls playoff games, seventy World Series games, and thirty-four Cubs and White Sox playoff games. The authors, Hannah Laqueur and Ryan Copus, examined Chicago crime reports by the half hour while those games were in progress and compared them to reports from the same time, day, and month when the teams werenít playing.

The effects were hard to miss. On Monday nights when the Bears were playing, crime in Chicago was down thirteen per centóproperty crimes by three per cent, violent crimes by eleven per cent, and drug crimes by nearly thirty per centócompared to the same Monday-night time slot when the Bears were off. Crime was consistently lower, though to a smaller degree, during N.B.A. finals games, Bulls playoff games, and Cubs and White Sox playoff games, regardless of whether the games were played at home or away. The Super Bowl had the biggest impact. During the three-plus hours of the game, crime fell by an average of twenty-five per centóproperty and violent crimes by roughly fifteen per cent and drug crimes by more than sixty per centówhich amounts to about sixty fewer crimes.

They also note an uptick in domestic violence after an upset home team loss.

A lot of people really don't know how to process their feelings. I think it's a safe bet all this largely applies to the male demographic.

Is it Shanahan related, or is it more Bell/Rogers owning the team related? I'm not saying there's a nefarious conspiracy, but it would make sense for a media conglomerate to curate their message about a business property. It definitely appeared to 'stabilize' around Shanahan.

I don't really think it's either. I think that what happened was that certain things the new management team did, whether cynically or not, appealed to a lot of the new breed of media and there isn't anyone in the world who doesn't like being told they're pretty.

This story sounds unbelievable but oh so sickeningly true. According to reports, human trafficking is a "$99M industry". Perhaps you're wondering what does this have to do with sporting events? Everything, from PGA tournaments to World Cup to HOF inductions, etc., etc.

The Athletic Cleveland reporter Tom Reed unlocked the article below so that many can read the shocking underworld of human trafficking, be it female sex slaves or cheap labour. Though the article specifically deals with the above in the US, it can pertain to anywhere in the world, at any moment, at any event.

Last call from me for this story, which is now a free read. Sex in the shadows: Traffickers exact a human toll from major sporting events https://t.co/fqly3RPnae

My wife, son and I went to the Phoenix Open a few years back. This tournament draws far more spectators than any other golf event, over 100,000 + people on the course each day. We were amazed at the amount of "working girls" walking around. Wherever large amounts of men with cash and booze are, you are going to find a huge amount of sex trade workers. Unfortunately there is a huge dark underbelly to all of this. Was very bizarre and we never went back to the event.

Is it Shanahan related, or is it more Bell/Rogers owning the team related? I'm not saying there's a nefarious conspiracy, but it would make sense for a media conglomerate to curate their message about a business property. It definitely appeared to 'stabilize' around Shanahan.

I don't really think it's either. I think that what happened was that certain things the new management team did, whether cynically or not, appealed to a lot of the new breed of media and there isn't anyone in the world who doesn't like being told they're pretty.

I'm sort of being facetious but as you're well aware there's really no way to avoid the sort of old school-new school divide between the Leafs' previous regime and the one that seemed to be in place when the Leafs brought in guys like Shanahan and Dubas.

Because a huge chunk of the debate in the hockey media over the last decade or so has been about these competing philosophies I think there were quite a few people who so wanted their beliefs validated that they were willing to pre-approve the new front office and give them credit before it was due. The flip side being the old schoolers wanting to take shots at it and give more credit to who they saw as their ideological horses like Lamoriello and Hunter.

I'm sort of being facetious but as you're well aware there's really no way to avoid the sort of old school-new school divide between the Leafs' previous regime and the one that seemed to be in place when the Leafs brought in guys like Shanahan and Dubas.

Because a huge chunk of the debate in the hockey media over the last decade or so has been about these competing philosophies I think there were quite a few people who so wanted their beliefs validated that they were willing to pre-approve the new front office and give them credit before it was due. The flip side being the old schoolers wanting to take shots at it and give more credit to who they saw as their ideological horses like Lamoriello and Hunter.

Ah that.

During the Lou-Dubas transition, there was a very concerted effort in their media availabilities and subsequent interviews to stress Dubas' hockey bona fides to bridge the two factions of the fanbase. It's been quite interesting to see how each team that has been on the forefront of this 'battle' have chosen to handle it (see Florida).

We are pleased to announce today that we are welcoming John Bartlett back to the @Sportsnet team for the 2018-19 NHL season. @BartsBytes will be calling play-by-play for Leafs regional broadcasts and select national games.

Meh. I always found him painstakingly bland. I get HNIC isn't the institution it once was but I would have hated to see him replace MacLean one day.

Yeah, nothing against the guy or anything but I can't ever recall thinking he ever really added or detracted from a show. Maybe that's what some people want out of their hosts but I think it's fairly replaceable.

I listened to him a lot on the FAN590 over the lunch hour. He was good, better then most hockey pucks who report these days. I would guess he is going to US programming in some capacity.

Daren Millard to the Golden Knights broadcast crew.

Title: Re: Media Thread
Post by: Zee on August 21, 2018, 09:16:30 AM

For the Athletic subscribers, Jonas Siegel has a great one on one interview with Matthews today. Touches on Tavares, Babcock, captaincy, expectations for himself and the team etc.

(I've been a subscriber for a while now, and while I understand the purpose of advertising, video content, etc., etc., on other sites, somerimes one would like a reprieve and enjoy reading something else on a different level.).

Iím not sure if anyone caught prime time sports today, but Brian Burke admitted to forcing Ron Wilson to play Colton Orr. Found that kind of interesting. Said thatís the only time heís ever forced a coach to play a player.

I actually think the opposite is true. The harder the stance that Dubas takes with Nylander sort of weakens his position with Matthews and Marner. He can't let all of them sit or trade them all. Realistically, Dubas can play chicken with one of them. If he wants to do that with Nylander, fine, but the "trade him if he doesn't want to play ball" stuff is going to be hard enough to make work with Nylander, it would be damn near impossible with Marner and ludicrous to try on Matthews.

I actually think the opposite is true. The harder the stance that Dubas takes with Nylander sort of weakens his position with Matthews and Marner. He can't let all of them sit or trade them all. Realistically, Dubas can play chicken with one of them. If he wants to do that with Nylander, fine, but the "trade him if he doesn't want to play ball" stuff is going to be hard enough to make work with Nylander, it would be damn near impossible with Marner and ludicrous to try on Matthews.

I don't think there's a chance of this situation happening with Matthews. He's going to get McDavid money (or possibly a little more) and no one is going to argue about it. If the Matthews contract blows up, the Leafs will probably be sunk anyway in terms of cup hopes.

Nylander's extension is different because he is a complementary piece. If he goes all 'Bobby Ryan' on the Leafs it could really hinder dreams of a cup. I also do think Nylander will become a trade piece at some point so getting him on as good of a deal as possible will be beneficial to the return he will bring the Leafs in a trade.

The Nylander's extension is different because he is a complementary piece. If he goes all 'Bobby Ryan' on the Leafs it could really hinder dreams of a cup. I also do think Nylander will become a trade piece at some point so getting him on as good of a deal as possible will be beneficial to the return he will bring the Leafs in a trade.

I'm not sure what going "Bobby Ryan" means in this context but I can just as easily say that not having Nylander could hinder dreams of a cup. Regardless, I don't want this to turn into yet another Nylander thread.

What I'm saying is that Dubas really only has one nuclear option in his pocket and he can't really use it for Matthews so the idea that he "has" to take this position with Nylander because of how it will affect his other dealings seems like a poorly thought out point here. As said above, Burke may not be the guy to listen to here.

The Nylander's extension is different because he is a complementary piece. If he goes all 'Bobby Ryan' on the Leafs it could really hinder dreams of a cup. I also do think Nylander will become a trade piece at some point so getting him on as good of a deal as possible will be beneficial to the return he will bring the Leafs in a trade.

I'm not sure what going "Bobby Ryan" means in this context but I can just as easily say that not having Nylander could hinder dreams of a cup. Regardless, I don't want this to turn into yet another Nylander thread.

What I'm saying is that Dubas really only has one nuclear option in his pocket and he can't really use it for Matthews so the idea that he "has" to take this position with Nylander because of how it will affect his other dealings seems like a poorly thought out point here. As said above, Burke may not be the guy to listen to here.

What I'm trying to say is I agree with you, but because this situation won't exist with Matthews because there won't be a discrepancy about his worth and his indispensability to the team.

Nylander is replaceable (if not equalled) and he could be used to address other needs.

Yeah, sorry. I guess everything is just revolving around Nylander now.

The Nylander's extension is different because he is a complementary piece. If he goes all 'Bobby Ryan' on the Leafs it could really hinder dreams of a cup. I also do think Nylander will become a trade piece at some point so getting him on as good of a deal as possible will be beneficial to the return he will bring the Leafs in a trade.

I'm not sure what going "Bobby Ryan" means in this context but I can just as easily say that not having Nylander could hinder dreams of a cup. Regardless, I don't want this to turn into yet another Nylander thread.

What I'm saying is that Dubas really only has one nuclear option in his pocket and he can't really use it for Matthews so the idea that he "has" to take this position with Nylander because of how it will affect his other dealings seems like a poorly thought out point here. As said above, Burke may not be the guy to listen to here.

What I'm trying to say is I agree with you, but because this situation won't exist with Matthews because there won't be a discrepancy about his worth and his indispensability to the team

We hope. But what if Matthews scores 50+ and wants 15 per? You might dismiss that as farfetched but most of us thought the Leafs and Nylander would be able to settle in the 7 million range.

The Nylander's extension is different because he is a complementary piece. If he goes all 'Bobby Ryan' on the Leafs it could really hinder dreams of a cup. I also do think Nylander will become a trade piece at some point so getting him on as good of a deal as possible will be beneficial to the return he will bring the Leafs in a trade.

I'm not sure what going "Bobby Ryan" means in this context but I can just as easily say that not having Nylander could hinder dreams of a cup. Regardless, I don't want this to turn into yet another Nylander thread.

What I'm saying is that Dubas really only has one nuclear option in his pocket and he can't really use it for Matthews so the idea that he "has" to take this position with Nylander because of how it will affect his other dealings seems like a poorly thought out point here. As said above, Burke may not be the guy to listen to here.

What I'm trying to say is I agree with you, but because this situation won't exist with Matthews because there won't be a discrepancy about his worth and his indispensability to the team

We hope. But what if Matthews scores 50+ and wants 15 per? You might dismiss that as farfetched but most of us thought the Leafs and Nylander would be able to settle in the 7 million range.

I think something like this can go back to the Tavares/Matthews comparisons too. Maybe if New York wasn't a mess then JT would have signed a long term extension with them or maybe he always had some part of him that was going to make sure he heard the pitch from Toronto when he had the chance.

Nothing is going to stop Matthews from doing the same thing and if the Leafs play hardball with contracts it could be a factor in any decision that he makes.

Just listening to PTS right now with Bobcat and Shannon and it's like offer sheet, Matthews, Arizona, offer-sheet, offer-sheet, why don't they, offer-sheet...

So you offer-sheet the max $16.25 (20 percent of cap) and all you do is piss off another team, they match and prices across the league go up further. Neither them nor their guests have said this yet. I guess it makes for good radio. There's no way a team doesn't match with a superstar they drafted.

This is a funny typo, from tsn story on Marner + Tavares = Mutual Love:

"I thought it would make me a better player," Tavares said. "I knew I'd be playing a couple less minutes a night, but I knew I'd be playing at a higher level, higher pace of play ... when you feel fresh every shift and you're able to play at that higher intensity, with our skillets, I'd like to think we'll have more success."

Maybe it's not a typo. Marner and Tavares are eggs, success is an omelet, and playing in TO is the skillet.

I like Brian Burke, I think he's a smart guy when he's not trying to make waves on TV but nothing is a better representation of his time here than arguing that guys should get paid according to their place in the depth chart rather than how good they actually are.

I like Brian Burke, I think he's a smart guy when he's not trying to make waves on TV but nothing is a better representation of his time here than arguing that guys should get paid according to their place in the depth chart rather than how good they actually are.

It has the Leafs as behind the Rangers and Habs in terms of revenues and profitability with those three clubs in a different league than just about every other team in the league. Still, there's a lot of money being made in the league right now.

I saw some discussion in the Nylander thread about Ferraro and O'Neil, and it made me think to post this as a possible point of interest.

I was always a loyal listener of The Fan for as long as I can remember. I was around when 1430 CJCL went to the all sports format and I remember the day that they switched down the dial to 590 - a great day for someone outside Toronto. Anyway, I always believed that Bob McCowan was the best interviewer in the business and that is why PTS always had my attention on my drive home.

But this past summer I started to listen to TSN 1050 a lot more and it has now taken over. I like the Landsberg and Colaiacovo team and I really like Hayes, Noodles and the O dog. I used to think calling them by nick names was a bit silly and that PTS was the more serious sports show, but that is no longer the case.

The Monday after Willie signed Dubas was doing the rounds and I listened to him on TSN Overdrive and on The Fan PTS and the interview on TSN was much much better. In fact, McCowan really showed how little he seems to follow the Leafs as he did that interview.

Anyway, I was wondering, in a sort of informal way, who people here prefer to listen to. As I said, after 25 years with The Fan, I have fully switched over to TSN..... though I have to say that their signal strength is brutal north of Toronto.

p.s. Ray Ferraro is also by far my favourite hockey analyst right now, so I like having him on TSN radio every day just after 5 PM as well.

I saw some discussion in the Nylander thread about Ferraro and O'Neil, and it made me think to post this as a possible point of interest.

I was always a loyal listener of The Fan for as long as I can remember. I was around when 1430 CJCL went to the all sports format and I remember the day that they switched down the dial to 590 - a great day for someone outside Toronto. Anyway, I always believed that Bob McCowan was the best interviewer in the business and that is why PTS always had my attention on my drive home.

But this past summer I started to listen to TSN 1050 a lot more and it has now taken over. I like the Landsberg and Colaiacovo team and I really like Hayes, Noodles and the O dog. I used to think calling them by nick names was a bit silly and that PTS was the more serious sports show, but that is no longer the case.

The Monday after Willie signed Dubas was doing the rounds and I listened to him on TSN Overdrive and on The Fan PTS and the interview on TSN was much much better. In fact, McCowan really showed how little he seems to follow the Leafs as he did that interview.

Anyway, I was wondering, in a sort of informal way, who people here prefer to listen to. As I said, after 25 years with The Fan, I have fully switched over to TSN..... though I have to say that their signal strength is brutal north of Toronto.

p.s. Ray Ferraro is also by far my favourite hockey analyst right now, so I like having him on TSN radio every day just after 5 PM as well.

Bob McClown is the worst interviewer ever. He will badmouth anyone and as soon as they're on the show he kisses their ass. never liked him. Tsn is where it's at. Overdrive is great and Ferraro is also great. Loved the way he put Hayes in his place yesterday. Hayes got all sucky and wanted to take his ball and go home lol. Also like how O'Neill will say anything and doesn't care who's offended by it.

I saw some discussion in the Nylander thread about Ferraro and O'Neil, and it made me think to post this as a possible point of interest.

I was always a loyal listener of The Fan for as long as I can remember. I was around when 1430 CJCL went to the all sports format and I remember the day that they switched down the dial to 590 - a great day for someone outside Toronto. Anyway, I always believed that Bob McCowan was the best interviewer in the business and that is why PTS always had my attention on my drive home.

But this past summer I started to listen to TSN 1050 a lot more and it has now taken over. I like the Landsberg and Colaiacovo team and I really like Hayes, Noodles and the O dog. I used to think calling them by nick names was a bit silly and that PTS was the more serious sports show, but that is no longer the case.

The Monday after Willie signed Dubas was doing the rounds and I listened to him on TSN Overdrive and on The Fan PTS and the interview on TSN was much much better. In fact, McCowan really showed how little he seems to follow the Leafs as he did that interview.

Anyway, I was wondering, in a sort of informal way, who people here prefer to listen to. As I said, after 25 years with The Fan, I have fully switched over to TSN..... though I have to say that their signal strength is brutal north of Toronto.

p.s. Ray Ferraro is also by far my favourite hockey analyst right now, so I like having him on TSN radio every day just after 5 PM as well.

TSN loyalist here, I can't stand the fan590 personalities. Been listening to Hayes, Noodles and ODog since they hosted Leafs lunch a few years ago. In my opinion, Overdrive is the best sports talk show in the country. The rapport they have together and the casual style conversations they have is great. Makes me laugh all the time too.

Morning show is ok but Landsberg can get on your nerves after awhile.

McKenzie and Ferraro are the best hockey analysts and I always make sure to listen to their segments.

The thing about McCown, the way I've always seen it, is that his background is more in the sports business side of things and the Vegas element. When he's asked to talk about sports as if winning and losing actually matters, it's clear he doesn't buy into it and doesn't care much about it. Opinions on CBA negotiations sure, whether or not the third line needs more scoring isn't his thing.

That's why I've only ever really liked the Friday version of his show.

The thing about McCown, the way I've always seen it, is that his background is more in the sports business side of things and the Vegas element. When he's asked to talk about sports as if winning and losing actually matters, it's clear he doesn't buy into it and doesn't care much about it. Opinions on CBA negotiations sure, whether or not the third line needs more scoring isn't his thing.

That's why I've only ever really liked the Friday version of his show.

I agree about the business side of things. If McCowan was discussing CBA negotiations (say, in the NHL) and hat remaining sticking points there were etc. I would give him the edge in those conversations. But for most day to day sports talk he is being severely outmatched right now by the boys over at Overdrive. For that reason, I do not even listen to the round table on Fridays anymore. TSN essentially does the same idea with a fun twist in their "Mail It In" Fridays and the insight into the game is better in my opinion.

One caveat that I will make to this, and it is about Steve Simmons. I dislike him so much that I will change the station anytime I hear him come on. Regardless of what he might know or what usefulness he may have to offer, I just dislike him so much that I will not even give him a chance anymore.

After a while? Landsberg is absolutely insufferable. I think the only reason he's still employed is that his charity work does the heavy lifting for his over the top narcissism.

Ferraro is great, and I actually like Burke in a media role. I don't agree with everything he says, but he's lived an interesting life and isn't an unintelligent man. Equating him with Cherry isn't accurate.

McCown was slipping for a bit, but his game has been upped again since The Fan brought in Brunt and Deitsch to co-host for the majority of the year. That's my go-to show. Beats having Reid and Cox as co-hosts, the latter which made me change the station immediately.

I find Landsberg to be really, really good at what he does. He's well spoken, he can conduct a great interview, his voice is easy on the ears, he is knowledgable across many areas.

The thing with him is though is that he can become really crusty and ooze off this ego in which he comes across as a prick. And I respect his mental health battle and all that he does to bring awareness to the situation, but I find he falls back on it all the time.

McCown was slipping for a bit, but his game has been upped again since The Fan brought in Brunt and Deitsch to co-host for the majority of the year. That's my go-to show. Beats having Reid and Cox as co-hosts, the latter which made me change the station immediately.

I must be the only person who thinks Overdrive sucks.

I think it sucks too. It reminds me of guys in university/college arguing about sports. Which is fine and all, but I graduated long ago.

I do not believe that I have ever been on this site before. I found it as I was searching for what happened to Scott MacArthur on the afternoon TSN show. A couple of interesting items in this piece about Scotty Mac and the Fan590 morning show. Seems like TSN 1050 ratings must be doing okay.

Bob Cole Top Ten:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmmBPsxg-DYBattle of Ontario:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfyPEwdcanQ

Title: Media Thread
Post by: Zee on May 02, 2019, 12:31:29 PM

I don't know why I continue to listen to Dreger. In the span of like 10-15 minutes he managed to praise Dave Nonis again for the Leafs build and reiterated a Nylander for Pesce trade that the Leafs should apparently revisit. This was today on Leafs lunch

I don't know why I continue to listen to Dreger. In the span of like 10-15 minutes he managed to praise Dave Nonis again for the Leafs build and reiterated a Nylander for Pesce trade that the Leafs should apparently revisit. This was today on Leafs lunch

Nonis was garbage and we were lucky he wasn't able to execute on more of his plans. Thanks for getting rid of Clarkson and getting Nylander and for your ass getting hit on the way out.

I don't know why I continue to listen to Dreger. In the span of like 10-15 minutes he managed to praise Dave Nonis again for the Leafs build and reiterated a Nylander for Pesce trade that the Leafs should apparently revisit. This was today on Leafs lunch

Nonis was garbage and we were lucky he wasn't able to execute on more of his plans. Thanks for getting rid of Clarkson and getting Nylander and for your ass getting hit on the way out.

Remember that he was the one who signed Clarkson in the first place and even though he was able to dump him, having Horton on the books this year severely limited the Leafs ability to improve the roster this season.

Remember that he was the one who signed Clarkson in the first place and even though he was able to dump him, having Horton on the books this year severely limited the Leafs ability to improve the roster this season.

We could have also potentially had Bolland eating up another $5mil in cap space this season if it wasn't for Tallon saving us from that.

I don't know why I continue to listen to Dreger. In the span of like 10-15 minutes he managed to praise Dave Nonis again for the Leafs build and reiterated a Nylander for Pesce trade that the Leafs should apparently revisit. This was today on Leafs lunch

Most of the time I listen to the radio it just makes me realize why some fans have such bad opinions.

I don't know why I continue to listen to Dreger. In the span of like 10-15 minutes he managed to praise Dave Nonis again for the Leafs build and reiterated a Nylander for Pesce trade that the Leafs should apparently revisit. This was today on Leafs lunch

Most of the time I listen to the radio it just makes me realize why some fans have such bad opinions.