But when it comes to weapons such as knives, sticks or what have you, my concept of what constitutes a good style is much fuzzier. Can we discuss the Bullshido consensus on effective knife and stick styles, either purely defensive or armed combat?

It's easy to forget that styles that date back to pre-gunpowder era combat were of last resort. That is to say, unarmed combat was practiced when all other means had failed: spear broken, sword lost, shield splintered. Or the citizenry was deprived of its military arms by an autocratic government: Okinawa post 1439, Edo period Japan. The present day is somewhat more peaceful, at least in the developed nations. There again, when the infantryman's weapon jams, or the perp knocks the cop to the ground, we are back to hand to hand. I suppose the question you raise is: how far have the older martial arts ( pre-WW2 ) drifted from their original context? In a paradoxical situation, we have a greater need for empty handed training vs. weapons, since it is rare these days for the victim to be carrying any sort of weapon. Therefore the defender must protect himself until the authorities arrive or he can retrieve some sort of weapon.

Nowadays if a weapon is carried on one's person it is likely to be small and concealable. Not too likely that you will be assaulted with a yari or an arrow shot from a bow. It is conceiveable that we have moved to a time when threats with knives and pistols are more commonplace. The problem with training for these events is that the training must be realistic. I've seen plenty of handgun defenses on youtube that look good down at the dojo. These same defenses also caused a loaded firearm to be swung wildly around, presenting a hazard to bystanders.

So my ideal qualities for weapon and weapon defense are:
1) realistic - must reflect the inherent dangers of handguns and knives, with a lesser emphasis on other hand held weapons like baseball bats. Defender must feel threatened in training situations.
2) flexible - the same techniques used in armed combat should extend to unarmed combat. Techniques should be practiced in common situations like retail stores, bars, parking lots etc.
3) emphasize street smarts - most people fall victim to assaults because they don't pay attention or recognize a seemingly harmless situation could escalate quickly. What do you do at a red light if someone walks up to your window and demands that you drive them somewhere "secluded"?
2)

If you're planning on carrying a weapon, I would recommend some training in using it before you start carrying. If you don't have any training with the weapon you're carrying, it could very easily be turned against you. Ffter you've had some training the concern then is if you will be held more libel because you were trained to fight with the weapon.

Also think about how you will carry the weapon. I've known a few women who carry a knife in their purse, When I've asked them to attack me with it I've finished the fight before they are even able to get it out.

I like the FMA's for the flexability in application. We train with different weapons: sticks, knifes, staves, emplty hand it doesn't matter because the idea is that an angle 1 is an angle 1 with whatever you have. We train how to attack and defend against the various angles, and in most cases the weapon does not matter (I wouldn't snake a bladed weapon though).

We sometimes grapple with the knife or stick. It gives a completely new perspective to what could happen to you in a confrontation. If you have a chance, I would recommend trying it.

The concepts taught by the Dog Brother's are also very invaluable when dealing with a weapon.

Just a thought about stickfighting... You realise that it's applicable to, say, umbrellas and walking canes and whatnot, right?

In some places u can actually get intricate carved walking sticks in which the handle comes out of the body of the walking stick with a neat blade. pretti usedul on the streets if u manage to get one. But then again you do look like a pooftah if ur always walking wid a walking stick. Concealed knives for teh win?

As for martial arts probably silat, which is part of FMA. Or just get a katar. Since the action is similar to a punch, should be easy enugh to master. 'Oh wat if its against the law?' I remmeber this song called **** authority.

"Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

... and yet carrying an umbrella will NEVER BE ILLEGAL, just like a cane. There are many factors that come into effect upon actually using something as a weapon. Your cane/umbrella will NEVER be concealed. You won't look like some criminal who's trying to get away with hiding something (overtly at least). That'll go a long way in the eyes of the law, trust me.
.

Another favorite of mine is a mag lite. I carried one at the store I worked at at night since the management was a bunch of hippy hoplophobes. You have a variety of sizes available, though I favored the 5 D cell model. Worst you can do is break the bulb. You can get both hands on it, it's metal, what's not to like? The idea came to me from Massad Ayoob's The Truth about Self Protection. The beauty of it is, it looks good if you get into a legal situation when you are using a tool rather than a "weapon". Just don't go beating people repeatedly on the head. Though Jim's suggestions about umbrellas are valid here, we just use them as parasols and sing broadway show tunes...

Silat is much, much more an Indo-Malay martial art than an FMA.
Any "Silat" seen in FMA is definitely much less technical, and watered-down "FMA-simplified".

Originally Posted by plakat

^more true then false^

"Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

Another favorite of mine is a mag lite. I carried one at the store I worked at at night since the management was a bunch of hippy hoplophobes. You have a variety of sizes available, though I favored the 5 D cell model. Worst you can do is break the bulb. You can get both hands on it, it's metal, what's not to like? The idea came to me from Massad Ayoob's The Truth about Self Protection. The beauty of it is, it looks good if you get into a legal situation when you are using a tool rather than a "weapon". Just don't go beating people repeatedly on the head. Though Jim's suggestions about umbrellas are valid here, we just use them as parasols and sing broadway show tunes...

I'm from the Pacific Northwest. You can definitely get away with it much more often than not. :kiss:

"Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney