So then I imagine you are for completely open and unrestricted weapon access. I am sure arms companies would love to sell heavier/more
expensive equipment to a hungry US public. Is your solution to let everyone have access to mortars, grenade launchers, mines, chemical weapons, etc
merely because you can't envision a solution to the problem?

Um... I didn't offer a solution to "the" problem, but that doesn't mean that I cannot envision a solution to the problem... some more reasonable than
others.

My solution would be to take reasonable precautions for reasonable risks. And those risks are many. For example, I would much rather see us do
something about the lead and psychoactive medications and other sources that we KNOW can cause violent tendencies, including both suicidal and
homicidal ideation and execution. I would much rather see us take more care with the "refugees" we let into our cities from nations and
cultures that are known for violent practices and who have sworn to kill and maim our people. And, for that matter, I would much rather see firearm
education and safety taught to anyone and everyone, thus increasing the number of responsible and knowledgeable firearm holders who can protect and
defend themselves (and others) in real time -- BEFORE police have a chance to arrive. Shall I go on???

It seems to me that I'm not the one who cannot envision other solutions. In fact, I would say that I am addressing the real problem, rather than the
symptom.

When this country was created the idea was to have a government that is ruled by the people, for the people.

Not a government that dictates what freedoms it's citizens are "allowed" to have.

It's why most Americans get pretty ticked off at being told what they can or can not drink. What size soda they are allowed to have. How much salt
they can put on their food. What they can or can not smoke.

What you can or can not own.

It's because we've given the government that much power (unfortunately), and are increasingly living in a Nanny State.

Personal responsibility has gone out the window. Too many are begging the government to dictate every aspect of their lives, and too many non-US
citizens keep telling us that it's okay to trust your government.

Yah.....I'm pretty sure the Native Americans will get behind that and tell us how great it is to trust the government to look out for us....

originally posted by: Gryphon66
B) Legal limitations on gun ownership in the US are unconstitutional.

Therein is the problem, and its not like the constitution hasn't been amended since its inception. You are conflating national identity with hard
facts.

I'm not conflating anything at all ... I didn't say a word about nor reference "national identity."

The facts are these. The US is one of the only countries that has EVER had a Constitutional right to carry.

There are only three in the world now (US, Mexico, Guatemala) and the US is the only one that is not Constitutionally restricted.

If you're arguing for a Constitutional Amendment, that's a different matter. However, currently, restrictions on gun ownership itself is not the
answer.

If you consider Heller, Justice Scalia gave as good a summary and argument as any ever written on the Second Amendment:
Heller decision

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts
rou­ tinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.

and further

Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken
to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms
in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws impos­ing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

Okay, fair enough... but your OP presumes that guns are the problem -- NOT those who misuse them, and can misuse lots of things for the same ends.
That's the real problem.

So isn't the real issue to be discussed and addressed what causes people to want to kill others? Are we just supposed to be angry because the
murderer used a gun? Or should we be angry because he killed people?

In reply to another poster, I mentioned lead and psychoactive drugs which we know are a source of homicidal ideation and execution.

Violence is a much bigger problem than just mass executions. Let's look at the inner cities, where gang violence is rampant... as is lead poisoning.
There have countless studies performed confirming that lead poisoning causes lower IQs and reasoning ability, loss of empathy, compassion, and leads
to violent practices. Countless articles have been written about it. We know. But we do nothing -- except blame those who don't know any better due
to lack of education and information AND LEAD POISONING!!!

Not only would we address the violence by addressing these root issues, we would also improve countless lives in countless ways for eternity.

Our problems are much much bigger than guns with many root causes, and there is no one solution. And we have to address all of them to address the
bigger issue. But if I had to reduce it to one thing: Take care of the people and for the most part the problem will take care of itself.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
what possible legislation could have stopped this?

Why is this such a hard concept to understand. Zero Guns. Gun Ban. If you can't buy a gun, it doesn't matter if you're a criminal or a saint.

The 2nd amendment has done nothing but kill people (mostly innocent people). How many tyrannical governments have we overthrown with our overwhelming
civilian firepower? How many Abrams tanks and MQ-9 Reapers are we going to be able to destroy with all these guns if/when the Government comes to
oppress us?

Our problems are much much bigger than guns with many root causes, and there is no one solution. And we have to address all of them to address the
bigger issue. But if I had to reduce it to one thing: Take care of the people and for the most part the problem will take care of itself.

I'd like to highlight this if I may. We are being conditioned, as a nation, into absolutism. We are going to have to turn this trend around, as a
People, and start compromising to find actual solutions to actual problems ... or we are lost.

I will try to make my point again:
1. We cannot do nothing.
2. The gun owners vs. gun control discussions go nowhere - so what can be done without even considering the gun control issue? Can the issue be
addressed without addressing gun control? This is an opportunity for pro-gun folks to step up. If not the guns, then what?
3. The problem will not go away. As we've seen over the past 2 decades it has been getting worse.
4. We cannot do nothing.

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