I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

Still does not negate the fact that the government is only spending 86% of its budget, meaning less money pumped into the economy. It also doesn't negate the fact that we are also days away from default.

Pocket Ninja:I read a few of the "popular post" headlines on that site's sidebar and now I understand that the Republicans do in fact have the votes to defund Obamacare, if only they stand firm.

If the Tea Party is formally recognized as a political party that it completely separate from and unrelated to the GOP, which of course it is and always has been, then, constitutionally, every state would then have three (3) senators instead of the two (2) that they currently have. If every state holds a special election to fill those seats, then between the Tea Party and GOP victories, the pro-B0Bcare liberal left will be reduced to a minority in the Senate. Once that happens, Majority Leader Ted Cruz will repeal the filibuster so that a tiny minority of Democrats can't hijack the will of the people. Owning both the House and Senate, a repeal of B0Bcare will pass without difficulty. Oh and this is after Obama and Biden have been impeached and convicted for their role in Benghazi, so Boehner will be in the White House to sign the bill. I mean, it's almost too easy.

Still does not negate the fact that the government is only spending 86% of its budget, meaning less money pumped into the economy. It also doesn't negate the fact that we are also days away from default.

And furthermore, they've voted to still pay everyone who is furloughed. Which is nice in that the vast majority of those who aren't being allowed to work didn't cause this shutstorm (to steal from TDS), but also means that the government isn't getting the benefit of the work that those employees would be doing, they're just getting an extended vacation (where they have to watch what they spend for the duration of it). And that private businesses that are tied to the government are also getting pinched because they can't operate normally- and those businesses and their employees will almost certainly NOT get any relief from the government.

GOP before the shutdown/slimdown: The Federal Government is too intrusive to the day-to-day life of citizens!!1!GOP after the shutdown/slimdown: See! There are no effects! The Federal Government doesn't affect you at all!

kronicfeld:Pocket Ninja: I read a few of the "popular post" headlines on that site's sidebar and now I understand that the Republicans do in fact have the votes to defund Obamacare, if only they stand firm.

If the Tea Party is formally recognized as a political party that it completely separate from and unrelated to the GOP, which of course it is and always has been, then, constitutionally, every state would then have three (3) senators instead of the two (2) that they currently have. If every state holds a special election to fill those seats, then between the Tea Party and GOP victories, the pro-B0Bcare liberal left will be reduced to a minority in the Senate. Once that happens, Majority Leader Ted Cruz will repeal the filibuster so that a tiny minority of Democrats can't hijack the will of the people. Owning both the House and Senate, a repeal of B0Bcare will pass without difficulty. Oh and this is after Obama and Biden have been impeached and convicted for their role in Benghazi, so Boehner will be in the White House to sign the bill. I mean, it's almost too easy.

kronicfeld:then, constitutionally, every state would then have three (3) senators instead of the two (2) that they currently have.

Nobody actually believes this, right?

DamnYankees:I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

It's always been the Republican's position that they, because of the intransigent Democrats, have gotten exactly what they wanted, and that this minor, catastrophic, shutdown, is making them happy, and outraged, that the people can see that the government is unimportant, and that the Democrats want to punish the people through closing down all the crucial services the government provides.

Pocket Ninja:I read a few of the "popular post" headlines on that site's sidebar and now I understand that the Republicans do in fact have the votes to defund Obamacare, if only they stand firm.

If you have time and read further elsewhere on the internet, you'll note that the reason they lost the last election was the Democrats mastery of technology like the interweb and twitter so they're really gonna focus there this time around. Oh, and move right a bit more because apparently their centrist stance has alienated some part of the electorate so they didn't vote.

DamnYankees:I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

They're promoting both ideas. That way, whichever one is right, they can claim that's what they believed all along.

nmrsnr:kronicfeld: then, constitutionally, every state would then have three (3) senators instead of the two (2) that they currently have.

Nobody actually believes this, right?

DamnYankees: I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

It's always been the Republican's position that they, because of the intransigent Democrats, have gotten exactly what they wanted, and that this minor, catastrophic, shutdown, is making them happy, and outraged, that the people can see that the government is unimportant, and that the Democrats want to punish the people through closing down all the crucial services the government provides.

Did that help?

What? You're telling me that the number of Senators each state gets isn't a function of the number of political parties?

nmrsnr:It's always been the Republican's position that they, because of the intransigent Democrats, have gotten exactly what they wanted, and that this minor, catastrophic, shutdown, is making them happy, and outraged, that the people can see that the government is unimportant, and that the Democrats want to punish the people through closing down all the crucial services the government provides.

DamnYankees:I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

The shutdown was the goal implemented by Republicans in order to manage the deficit.

Now - before your start objecting to this - remember that the truth doesn't matter in an ad.

Local Man:GOP before the shutdown/slimdown: The Federal Government is too intrusive to the day-to-day life of citizens!!1!GOP after the shutdown/slimdown: See! There are no effects! The Federal Government doesn't affect you at all!

Were they lying then or are they lying now?

its hard to have a cohesive message when your agenda is pretty much hypocritical to begin with...

kronicfeld:Pocket Ninja: I read a few of the "popular post" headlines on that site's sidebar and now I understand that the Republicans do in fact have the votes to defund Obamacare, if only they stand firm.

If the Tea Party is formally recognized as a political party that it completely separate from and unrelated to the GOP, which of course it is and always has been, then, constitutionally, every state would then have three (3) senators instead of the two (2) that they currently have. If every state holds a special election to fill those seats, then between the Tea Party and GOP victories, the pro-B0Bcare liberal left will be reduced to a minority in the Senate. Once that happens, Majority Leader Ted Cruz will repeal the filibuster so that a tiny minority of Democrats can't hijack the will of the people. Owning both the House and Senate, a repeal of B0Bcare will pass without difficulty. Oh and this is after Obama and Biden have been impeached and convicted for their role in Benghazi, so Boehner will be in the White House to sign the bill. I mean, it's almost too easy.

Okay, I'd vote for that constitutional amendment, if and only if we raised the number of House Representatives to one representative per 1 million people.

DamnYankees:I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

DamnYankees:I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

Local Man:GOP before the shutdown/slimdown: The Federal Government is too intrusive to the day-to-day life of citizens!!1!GOP after the shutdown/slimdown: See! There are no effects! The Federal Government doesn't affect you at all!

SpectroBoy:DamnYankees: I'm so confused by the conservative argument here. Is the shutdown bad or not? The whole point of the shutdown was that it was so bad it would be leverage to force the Dems to fold. But apparently its not so bad? So why would the Dems fold?

Like most of the memes to come out of Bullshiat Mountain, there's a tiny kernel of truth somewhere inside.

In this case, that truth is that you can't stop most of the things the Federal government does, even temporarily, without serious repercussions. Exempt all those things from the shutdown (as we pretty much have to - who wants e.g. Federal prisons to let everyone go?), and it turns out you're not saving much money.

and we were operating at a deficit then add in the shut-down will have costs that will have to be made up after the govt gets past the ACA argument so really there is no money being saved by the shutdown is kind of the point here. Some conservative groups have been trying to portray the shutdown as a good thing or at least a low impact item.

Fart_Machine:dwrash: It's like the Executive Branch has taken over the government and is giving the finger to the congress.. and the tax payer.

Wat?

Obama's a tyrant!!! The liberal media is in cahoots to blame the GOP!!! Democrats are the one's not willing to negotiate!!! Republicans didn't want the shut down and ate doing the will of the people!!!!

Take your pick from any of these ridiculous, disingenuous talking points out friend here has been vomiting out for the last week or so...

cman:Still does not negate the fact that the government is only spending 86% of its budget, meaning less money pumped into the economy.

Most of the stuff deemed "essential" is more wasteful than the 14% that gets cut. I'm looking at our military spending in the name of "Team American: World Police". I'm looking at discretionary funds used to tell schools what to teach.

It's like the people who complain about Government fiscal policy have no understanding of basic Government fiscal policy. And I mean everyone from the worst conservative blogger up to the top management of the Republican party.

ib_thinkin:The part of the story nobody's talking about: 86% of our budget is law enforcement, defense, social security and Medicare.

Yes, well... wait until next week when the Federal courts, which have already pretty much suspended all civil cases, run out of money. It was estimated that they had funds for 10 business days of operation. Once that is depleted, law enforcement will be pointless because there will be no judge to sign a warrant and no grand jury to vote for an indictment.

Corvus:And guess what GOP, since all members of the GOP has said we will back pay federal workers this shut down is going to cost MORE money to the US then if it didn't happen.

Even without that, there's real waste - agencies have to waste time prepping for the shutdown, wrapping up things for the shutdown, dealing with all the piled-up work after the shutdown, etc. when instead they could be doing whatever it is they're supposed to do.