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Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

The frequency of such occurrences of collateral/friendly fire incidients might lead some to the conclusion that it is safer to be an enemy than a friend.

How frequent are they? Got any real indication? I bet they are not as frequent as you might think. Just because of a couple reports within a week or so does not make them common.

Further, the nature of the war itself does raise the likelihood of these situations. However, the military is doing everything it can to try and minimize those chances. The ROEs that so many throw a fit about are a good example of the military putting themselves at extra risk to protect against this happening.

All that said, if some one driving a bus does not respond to the military trying to get him to stop, as most likely happened in this case, then the fault is not even on the military. They did their part.

We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

I'd argue at a certain point not firing upon it would be being cavilier with ones own life.

To which you replied:

Quote:
a cowardly sentiment from a supposed veteran

Which seems a pretty clear indication to me that you strongly disagree with his sentiments that after a certain point not firing on it would be careless with your own life.

Even granting your point, it seems the troops were a long way from that point. Real soldiers do not shoot civilians just to make sure they can't be hurt by them, despite the Rambo pretense of the "veteran" quoted above (who,despite calling me a liar and ridiculing my OP, demonstrated his true nature by reporting me for the above quote). If the convoys were concerned about the bus, they could have stopped short and sent squads to check it out. Considering the poor relations between the military and Afghan civilians, this encounter between convoys and an inter-city bus should have been resolvable without killing the passengers.

Would it trouble you if a Greyhound bus were pulled over on the interstate and passengers were killed because the driver failed to respond to an order to stop? Perhaps your son was on the bus coming home from college. Why would you value the lives of Afghan civilians any less than Americans?

There were two convoys of armed soldiers at the scene, they could, and should have been able to solve the problem without opening fire on the bus.

Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

Originally Posted by WillRockwell

Even granting your point, it seems the troops were a long way from that point. Real soldiers do not shoot civilians just to make sure they can't be hurt by them, despite the Rambo pretense of the "veteran" quoted above (who,despite calling me a liar and ridiculing my OP, demonstrated his true nature by reporting me for the above quote). If the convoys were concerned about the bus, they could have stopped short and sent squads to check it out. Considering the poor relations between the military and Afghan civilians, this encounter between convoys and an inter-city bus should have been resolvable without killing the passengers.

Would it trouble you if a Greyhound bus were pulled over on the interstate and passengers were killed because the driver failed to respond to an order to stop? Perhaps your son was on the bus coming home from college. Why would you value the lives of Afghan civilians any less than Americans?

There were two convoys of armed soldiers at the scene, they could, and should have been able to solve the problem without opening fire on the bus.

You wouldn't know a real soldier, period. you are completley ignorant to the life and death struggle soldiers in war go through on a daily basis, instead you want to talk from a position of ignorance to slam these soldiers for making a difficult decision. shame on you.

Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

Originally Posted by WillRockwell

Even granting your point, it seems the troops were a long way from that point. Real soldiers do not shoot civilians just to make sure they can't be hurt by them, despite the Rambo pretense of the "veteran" quoted above (who,despite calling me a liar and ridiculing my OP, demonstrated his true nature by reporting me for the above quote). If the convoys were concerned about the bus, they could have stopped short and sent squads to check it out. Considering the poor relations between the military and Afghan civilians, this encounter between convoys and an inter-city bus should have been resolvable without killing the passengers.

Would it trouble you if a Greyhound bus were pulled over on the interstate and passengers were killed because the driver failed to respond to an order to stop? Perhaps your son was on the bus coming home from college. Why would you value the lives of Afghan civilians any less than Americans?

There were two convoys of armed soldiers at the scene, they could, and should have been able to solve the problem without opening fire on the bus.

Really, do your self a favor and read the ****ing article linked in the very first post this thread.

Here, let me hold your hand and show you a key part to read:

It said “an unknown, large vehicle” drove “at a high rate of speed” toward a slow-moving NATO convoy that was clearing mines.

We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

Will, I do not know why you insist on jumping to blame the troops first, but you are not going to have much luck with that line of argument. I know you are speaking from a complete and total ignorance, but that does not excuse the defamation you are doing towards those very fine men and women. Those people, who you so quickly criticize, are willing to put their lives on the line in defense of their country and your ass.

We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

Originally Posted by Redress

Will, I do not know why you insist on jumping to blame the troops first, but you are not going to have much luck with that line of argument. I know you are speaking from a complete and total ignorance, but that does not excuse the defamation you are doing towards those very fine men and women. Those people, who you so quickly criticize, are willing to put their lives on the line in defense of their country and your ass.

you sound like the Greatness that is the Good Reverend... Careful now, the awesomeness is a great responsibility.

Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

Really, do your self a favor and read the ****ing article linked in the very first post this thread.

Here, let me hold your hand and show you a key part to read:

Perhaps you yourself should read the part where the bus was stopped and pulled to the side before it came under fire. And please spare me the patronizing tone, you ain't gonna hold my hand.

One of the survivors, Rozi Mohammad, told The Associated Press at Kandahar hospital that the bus had just left a terminal when it pulled over to the side of the road to allow an American convoy to pass. Shooting broke out as the third or fourth American vehicle passed by, he said.

"They just suddenly opened fire. I don't know why. We had been stopped and after that I don't know what happened," said Mohammad, his left eye swollen shut and his beard and clothing matted with blood.

Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

Perhaps you yourself should read the part where the bus was stopped and pulled to the side before it came under fire. And please spare me the patronizing tone, you ain't gonna hold my hand.

So we have conflicting testimony from different sources. Guess what, we knew that. Go back and read this thread and you will learn that we have actually talked about how the facts are in dispute. Every one but you knew that in fact. Guess which source is more credible, and guess why.

We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham