Hi Trevor - I don't think you'll get any joy with the former grazing field as there are now so many owners for these plots!

I'm not aware there is any other land suitable at present in our area and the RRA would not be interested in running/managing as such. It is something that a private allotment society would have to run instead of the Council. There are a number of private allotments in the Borough. Have you tried one of these, who may have some availability, instead of the Council, whose land/allotments are very limited?

Hi PhilI'm not asking the RRA to run anything, just asking if the RRA would support something like this rather than object to it.

There is a lot of unused land in Croydon - that field in Mitchley Hill is unused - there is nothing to stop a compulsory purchase of the land by Croydon Council to allow it to be used as allotments. This would help Croydon council go some way towards fulfilling it's legal obligations to provide land for allotments. Croydon council doesn't need to actually run any new allotments, they just need to provide land as they are legally obliged to.

All allotment sites in Croydon, both council run and privately run, are full. Croydon council has closed their waiting lists and the parks department refuse to add anyone else to the waiting lists.

Trevor - the RRA would certainly welcome anything to improve the appearance of the land but as it is green belt, the options for it's use are very limited. However you have got over 30 owners to deal with, some of whom live locally!

We have asked the Council to CPO this and the agriculture land that will become available in Sept 2013 but to no avail, to date. We are constantly being told by our local Councillors that there is no money available in capital budgets.

You can try taking it up as an individual with Cllr Tim Pollard, his contact details are on our website under "Council Information & Tel nos".

I see under Section 23 of the Small Holdings and Allotments Act 1908, that if Councils believe that there is a demand for allotments; they have a statutory duty to provide a sufficient number of plots. Do you have names locally that could prove this? If not then you may have trouble convincing the Council

Yes, I'm aware of the act and various information / websites - I'm sure I can get several names together - I was hoping a few locals would show an interest via the forums, but sadly not the case - I can get a list of names together from elsewhere.

I would like to see the RRA formally backing the use of land as allotments - this can add weight to campaigns and it will be good to know we wouldn't face opposition from the RRA.

The council's "lack of finance" argument doesn't work - they have money to throw at other things. They can secure finance from external bodies. They don't need to purchase land, they can compulsarily rent the land. And they will of course, receive rent from the plot holders.

The only thing standing in the way is a lack of willpower from Croydon council.

Do you have any evidence of the field being used for agriculture at any time in the past? If so, this will mean there is no need for any planning permission changes.

Any planning evidence would have to come from the Council. Certainly in all my many years living in the area, it was always grazing land. However I'm pretty certain the Council put an Article 4 on the land a few years ago and this could have consequences for any building and fencing erected. You would certainly need high, stout fencing with all the deer and rabbits around, eating the produce!! You would need to speak to the Planners on this.

Re the Article 4 - Local planning authorities make an Article 4 direction only in exceptional circumstances where evidence suggests that the exercise of permitted development rights would harm local amenity or the proper planning of the area. In this case it was useful in safeguarding the visual amenity of the green belt by removing any entitlement to undertake development that would ordinarily not require planning permission. The land was being sold off in plots and the Council wanted to protect it's status as Green Belt. Translated, this means that basically any new building, use, high fences etc, now needs planning permission.

From reading the Article 4 document, it appears that the council could modify the article 4 directions, thereby bypassing any potential needs for planning permission. We will need to take a very careful look at the planning register and other things to find out the proper legal positions. It does look like it will all rely on Croydon council's willingness to do something useful rather than their usual "can't be arsed" attitude.

Trevor - we discussed this last night and in principal the RRA would have no objection with allotments. However we would not be happy if anything was done that would contravene the Article 4 on the land: ie sheds, structures, high fences etc. We think you have your work cut out, in dealing with so many owners and the Council but good luck!

Thanks PhilIs the RRA's opposition to contravention of Article 4 based on "breaching planning guidelines" or "unsightly sheds" etc?Croydon council *could* amend article 4 to allow sheds, fences and anything that would normally be found on allotments. Would RRA oppose that?

Trevor - The RRA would not be happy if sheds, toilets, high fences were erected, as it would damage the openness of the Green Belt as the site does slope up from the road and would be clearly seen. It would also be seen from properties up the hill. The Article 4 was added as an additional safeguard of the GB. If the Council wish to remove this, then the RRA would have to discuss this again

However the Planning Inspector did recently reject an appeal in Merseyside on 6 July 2012 - "Allotment sheds harm green belt - The conversion of a field on Merseyside to 73 private allotments with a small shed on each plot was rejected because it would harm the openness of the green belt."

Perhaps you now need to sound out the Council's Planners, and all the land owners if you are serious with this proposal?