I somewhat fear for the future of the dutch.. Finding it hard to see where their next world class player will emerge from.. They got this in this tourney on the back of RObben first, then sneijder and RVP.. ...Hiddink has work to do..

thats because LVG has set them up around Robben ,Sneijeder and RVPTruth is Dutch football is brimming with fantastic emerging talent. Clasie is going to be huge in the future. So is Devy KlassenDaley Blind can only get better .

They have emerging talent no doubt - but any World Class prospects especially in attack.. If this World cup has shown us anything, you arguably need some sprinkle of world class talent to make it far..

You dont need a Messi, Robben or Neymar to go far. Even without Robben Holland has enough upcoming talent to do in the future, what Germany has done this year. Even costa Rica made it quite far without exceptional individual talent. You have to remember LVG is a pragmatic coach., He had game changers in his squad and set up his team to get the best out of them.Hiddink or whoever takes over will assess the talent pool and decide on the best formation to useBut make no mistake he will have more talented players to work with than most national teams

Interestingly, 3 of the WC semi-finalist have a messi, robben and neymar.. When was the last time you had a team with out a World class player reach the WC final??Germans had talent you clearly could see will turn into WC players..? Neuner, Lahm, Schweini, Kroos, Mueller, Ozil.. then add top players like Khedira, Hummels, Gotze.. With the dutch, while some of their younger players were impressive, i am struggling to find the next RVP, KLuivert, Overmars, Van Basten, Gullit, De boer, Stam among them..

Mind you, i am not in anyway dismissing the importance of coaching. You need a solid coach to put all the talent together.. But having 1-3 world class players on your squad can easily be the difference making between a costa rica/mexico/colombia and a Germany/Argentina/holland that get to make it all the way..

No sir ............having the FIFA 'match-fixers' and an 'instructed' Ref makes all the difference on who makes the last 8 or last 4.

_________________Trump WILL never be the GOP nominee and no one will remember him once the campaign get serious...............Ekorian der gasbag(R)

One thing is certain this is not a Brasil team..the real Brasil team have players with names like Pele, Ronaldo, Cerezo, Jairzinho, Bebeto, Zico....not Hulk, Fred, Julio Ceasar, Jo , Willain, or Bernard....it is all in tbe names..these are english players all dressed up as brasilians.

It is obvious that Brazil has better players than the ones Scolari chose to select. Even if you look among those Brazilian players playing in Europe, it is possible to find players with better ball skills than Scolari's men.

Skills isn't really the main problem but the lack of discipline especially when they go behind, and there is Luis and others who all want to be forwards.

Please, kindly help me spread this message.This is exactly what Keshi has been saying about some of the players he ruled out. If it makes sense for Brazil, it makes sense for Nigeria.It def makes more sense that the baseless 'dropology' theories bandied about by those 'indiscpined' forumers who refuse to recognise the importance of discipline in a team, over so-called 'talent'.

One thing is certain this is not a Brasil team..the real Brasil team have players with names like Pele, Ronaldo, Cerezo, Jairzinho, Bebeto, Zico....not Hulk, Fred, Julio Ceasar, Jo , Willain, or Bernard....it is all in tbe names..these are english players all dressed up as brasilians.

It is obvious that Brazil has better players than the ones Scolari chose to select. Even if you look among those Brazilian players playing in Europe, it is possible to find players with better ball skills than Scolari's men.

Skills isn't really the main problem but the lack of discipline especially when they go behind, and there is Luis and others who all want to be forwards.

Please, kindly help me spread this message.This is exactly what Keshi has been saying about some of the players he ruled out. If it makes sense for Brazil, it makes sense for Nigeria.It def makes more sense that the baseless 'dropology' theories bandied about by those 'indiscpined' forumers who refuse to recognise the importance of discipline in a team

Oga Doctor .........my hand no dey am oo .

SirV and Cicob ............na my Ogas, I know support any persin wey wan embarrass dem for public ooooo

_________________Trump WILL never be the GOP nominee and no one will remember him once the campaign get serious...............Ekorian der gasbag(R)

I somewhat fear for the future of the dutch.. Finding it hard to see where their next world class player will emerge from.. They got this in this tourney on the back of RObben first, then sneijder and RVP.. Rest of the squad is filled with emerging talent but none that convinces me they will be world class.. Especially looking lightweight in attack.. where is the next marauding flying dutch winger we are accustomed to seeing?..

Hiddink has work to do..

This discussion should not be on hiddink. It is.. Where do Brazil go from here?

They should do the 10+ year program that Germany took after the 5-1 home defeat humilation to some kick and rush team in 2001.

Football-dumbo .........................Remind me who played against Brazil in 2002WC final?All dis 'football-know-nothings' that just post the 1st nonsense that enters their head

the fool strikes again! what were the ages of that team that reached the 2002 final? The 10+ year programme was designed for producing players for the future and also a better footballing team. In the 2000 European Cup they didn't even leave the group.

In the next WC new young players like Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Mertersacker etc were introduced, four years later Ozil and his crew came along. Don't you know anything about football? I can tell you are still live in the village, walking around in your bare feet! Total waste- always high! Shameless heroin user!!!

Below is what you wrote.......are you this dumb to understand what you were inferring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

They should do the 10+ year program that Germany took after the 5-1 home defeat humilation to some kick andrush team in 2001.

Fat Dumbo I will help out.......Your brainless post infers that they started a 10year program in 2001 that is playing off now, while forgetting that they reached the WC final in 2002(a couple of months after the 5-1 loss to England).........................the same thing they just achieved in this WC that you are pointing out as the 'gain' of their 10yr program Don't you see how silly you look now ................Now go and eat another FATburger

Wow, you really are a stupid fool aren't you! Why haven't you answered my question? How old were those guys who participated in the 2002 Final? Yeye heroin user! If Germany didn't embark on rebuilding there football structure in 2001 then there is no way that those same old players would have been able to help Deutschland reach countless semi finals/finals during the next decade! Is your drug filled peanut of a brain that weak to comprehend that fact?

It is only when you figure out how to leave your village and buy your first pair of shoes that you will understand the simple concepts of football! You crack addict!!!!!

_________________The weak or the strong, who got it going onYou're dead wrong

Wow, you really are a stupid fool aren't you! Why haven't you answered my question? How old were those guys who participated in the 2002 Final? Yeye heroin user! If Germany didn't embark on rebuilding there football structure in 2001 then there is no way that those same old players would have been able to help Deutschland reach countless semi finals/finals during the next decade! Is your drug filled peanut of a brain that weak to comprehend that fact?

It is only when you figure out how to leave your village and buy your first pair of shoes that you will understand the simple concepts of football! You crack addict!!!!!

...............................and you believe that you just made great sense. FatFOOL you are dumber than DUMB .Clown, you were expecting the 'same players to be playing till date' .....................Airhead , there is a reason why Ronaldo,Rivaldo,Roberto Carlos & co are no longer playing for Brazil too.

Damn it, calling you 'Stupidito' ia actually an insult to real stupid folks.Can you face the only thing that you can do properly...................go and eat more...............

fatBURGERS

_________________Trump WILL never be the GOP nominee and no one will remember him once the campaign get serious...............Ekorian der gasbag(R)

Wow, you really are a stupid fool aren't you! Why haven't you answered my question? How old were those guys who participated in the 2002 Final? Yeye heroin user! If Germany didn't embark on rebuilding there football structure in 2001 then there is no way that those same old players would have been able to help Deutschland reach countless semi finals/finals during the next decade! Is your drug filled peanut of a brain that weak to comprehend that fact?

It is only when you figure out how to leave your village and buy your first pair of shoes that you will understand the simple concepts of football! You crack addict!!!!!

...............................and you believe that you just made great sense. FatFOOL you are dumber than DUMB .Clown, you were expecting the 'same players to be playing till date' .....................Airhead , there is a reason why Ronaldo,Rivaldo,Roberto Carlos & co are no longer playing for Brazil too.

Damn it, calling you 'Stupidito' ia actually an insult to real stupid folks.Can you face the only thing that you can do properly...................go and eat more...............

fatBURGERS

Say no to drugs!!! Stupid Crack Addict, you say the names of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo, but who have replaced them? Fred and Jo? Your brain has been so ravaged and fried with drugs that you do not know you have inadvertently proved my point!!!! Yes Germany went to the 2002 WC Final, but the thrashing at home against England prompted them to build extensively for the future because they had no one coming through at that time! The result? They destroyed Brazil in the semi's IN Brazil after losing to them in the Final in 2002!

Now, if I were you I would think about changing your........

Diet !!!!

_________________The weak or the strong, who got it going onYou're dead wrong

Yet another pathetic performance by the most pathetic Brazil team in WC history. Thiago Silva should have been sent off, more Brazilians should have been booked for their reckless challenges and the Dutch should have scored more if not for the constant fouling by Brazil. These pathetic bums dived at every possible opportunity trying to gain FKs and PKs but luckily the ref was having none of it. I realized Brazil was crap after the Chile match but to its almost unfathomable to realize they were really this bad.

Lack of talent is the root of Brazil's problems but Scolari's tactics and problems did not help. It'll be interesting to see if Brazil learns any lessons from this WC.

...Brazil were crap from the inception of the tournament, needing a dive and pk to win over Croatia. They were craps when Mexico took them to the dryers. The world noticed in the first match and a loud call of bad officiating. Then the refs tightened up, as you can see during the 3rd place game. No freebies this time.

...Brazil were crap from the inception of the tournament, needing a dive and pk to win over Croatia. They were craps when Mexico took them to the dryers. The world noticed in the first match and a loud call of bad officiating. Then the refs tightened up, as you can see during the 3rd place game. No freebies this time.

It took for me the Germany game to realize how bad this team really is. As you and others noted, it some home cooking masked some problems. They egregiously got favored in the Croatia game. They were allowed to foul and fight in the Colombia game, which backfired with their losing Neymar and Silva.

Finally the burden of expectations made them less than an already average sum of the parts against Germany. They played better against Holland, but finally were shown to be a decent tier 2 team, nothing more. Brazil is tier 2. Not tier 1. As a lifelong football fan, I still have trouble believing this.

What I find interesting about your comment Mcal is how glamor teams get beneficial refereeing. Croatia was the sacrificial lamb against Brazil. Likewise, France got away with it against Nigeria on that red card hack. But the referees just couldn't be so egregiously biased against Holland and Germany.

Maybe that's what offends us fans most? Why should Brazil in Brazil get such favoritism, to the point where it decides games? This is legendary Brazil, jogo bonito Brazil. They shouldn't need it.

At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

_________________All summer '17...playing dirty not clean!

To be scientifically literate is to empower yourself to know when someone else is full of boolsheet!

At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

I beg to differ..how did you think Brasil made it so far to the semi final? Even the confed they won last year was one of the benefits of playing on home soil. It may not take a team all the way, but it comes handy.

_________________"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho

At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

I beg to differ..how did you think Brasil made it so far to the semi final? Even the confed they won last year was one of the benefits of playing on home soil. It may not take a team all the way, but it comes handy.

Home advantage is only and advantage if the opponents are not better than you. Home advantage did not push South Africa through in 2010 WC, it didn't push them through in 2013. How handy did that come?

_________________All summer '17...playing dirty not clean!

To be scientifically literate is to empower yourself to know when someone else is full of boolsheet!

At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

I beg to differ..how did you think Brasil made it so far to the semi final? Even the confed they won last year was one of the benefits of playing on home soil. It may not take a team all the way, but it comes handy.

Home advantage is only and advantage if the opponents are not better than you. Home advantage did not push South Africa through in 2010 WC, it didn't push them through in 2013. How handy did that come?

Maybe the gap was too wide.Home advantage helped England in '66, Argentina in '78. It can't push you all the way, but if you are pretty good yourself, then the marginal advantage might be just enough to make up the difference in quality and you can just about breast the tape.

Players will tell you what that roaring crowd can do for your tired legs and sagging spirit. It cannot be measured.

At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

I beg to differ..how did you think Brasil made it so far to the semi final? Even the confed they won last year was one of the benefits of playing on home soil. It may not take a team all the way, but it comes handy.

Home advantage is only and advantage if the opponents are not better than you. Home advantage did not push South Africa through in 2010 WC, it didn't push them through in 2013. How handy did that come?

Maybe the gap was too wide.Home advantage helped England in '66, Argentina in '78. It can't push you all the way, but if you are pretty good yourself, then the marginal advantage might be just enough to make up the difference in quality and you can just about breast the tape.

Players will tell you what that roaring crowd can do for your tired legs and sagging spirit. It cannot be measured.

Over the years football psychology has proven that home advantage is a thing of the mind. Those teams you mentioned were no slouches in that era. Germany lost in 2006 WC, Italy lost in 1990 WC and these are powerhouses. But they lost to better teams. If you look at the teams Brasil played before the Semis of this WC those teams are not better than Brasil. So, Brasil lost to a better team, that's all. The point I am making is, if a team is better than you home advantage means nothing. They will still beat you regardless. Now if you are on par with the other team, then it is most likely going to help you (it will come in handy then).

_________________All summer '17...playing dirty not clean!

To be scientifically literate is to empower yourself to know when someone else is full of boolsheet!

At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

I beg to differ..how did you think Brasil made it so far to the semi final? Even the confed they won last year was one of the benefits of playing on home soil. It may not take a team all the way, but it comes handy.

Home advantage is only and advantage if the opponents are not better than you. Home advantage did not push South Africa through in 2010 WC, it didn't push them through in 2013. How handy did that come?

The problem here is when you do not qualify the advantage, to you the advantage means they have to win, which id not necesarilly the case. Everyone knows South Africa was bad, did not have a team, but they still managed to perform above their normal level. Aghh why do i even bother...the simple fact remains playing in front of familiar crowd , field and environment gives you an extra boost as athlete...the question is how much of an advantage. The advantage does not mean you will necesarilly win, but there is a psychological boost . There is a reason why teams going to play at places like Stoke prepare harder, Stoke does not neccesarily have to win but they have proven over the years that they reserve their best performances for brittania stadium.

_________________"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho

At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

I beg to differ..how did you think Brasil made it so far to the semi final? Even the confed they won last year was one of the benefits of playing on home soil. It may not take a team all the way, but it comes handy.

Home advantage is only and advantage if the opponents are not better than you. Home advantage did not push South Africa through in 2010 WC, it didn't push them through in 2013. How handy did that come?

Maybe the gap was too wide.Home advantage helped England in '66, Argentina in '78. It can't push you all the way, but if you are pretty good yourself, then the marginal advantage might be just enough to make up the difference in quality and you can just about breast the tape.

Players will tell you what that roaring crowd can do for your tired legs and sagging spirit. It cannot be measured.

Over the years football psychology has proven that home advantage is a thing of the mind. Those teams you mentioned were no slouches in that era. Germany lost in 2006 WC, Italy lost in 1990 WC and these are powerhouses. But they lost to better teams. If you look at the teams Brasil played before the Semis of this WC those teams are not better than Brasil. So, Brasil lost to a better team, that's all. The point I am making is, if a team is better than you home advantage means nothing. They will still beat you regardless. Now if you are on par with the other team, then it is most likely going to help you (it will come in handy then).

Funny how you knock one arguement and you went ahead to put a different but bizzare agument forward. Chile beat Spain, but could not beat Brasil. The simple arguement that can be made is that these advantages can be overcome with adequate preparations. When people make this generalised arguement without qualifying they sometimes betray a certain failure to grasp what they are talking about.

What is home advantage someone said it is simply a psychllogical thing,there you have someone without real undedstanding about this topic.Going to play teams in high altitude is not a psychogical advantage, it is real and it is a physical home advantage. South American teams complain about playing in Peru, the best teams have all lost on the high altitude of Quito, those who deny this advantage find out at a cost.

For many years teams from west africa were being destroyed in north africa especially places like algeria where matches would be played on cold nights and on wet synthetic fields, while same teams from the north would be left panting in the hot humid sunshine of tropical west africa. To overckme these home advantages teams talk about acclimatising and procuring the right boots.

The truth is teams coming to brasil saw how brasil put their home advantage to a devastating use during the confed cup and they prepared for it. It can also be said that Brasil went to sleep believing their hkme advantage is all they need, a fatal way of managing home advantage. A good team can neutralise a home advantage,but that does not mean it does not exist. That it is an advantage does not mean it cannot be overcome, this simple truth is what is missing on anyone rubbishing the benefits of home advantage.

_________________"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:37 amPosts: 36846Location: From the place where hardcore is beautiful

analyzer wrote:

bushboy wrote:

Vincent. wrote:

oloye wrote:

One thing is certain this is not a Brasil team..the real Brasil team have players with names like Pele, Ronaldo, Cerezo, Jairzinho, Bebeto, Zico....not Hulk, Fred, Julio Ceasar, Jo , Willain, or Bernard....it is all in tbe names..these are english players all dressed up as brasilians.

It is obvious that Brazil has better players than the ones Scolari chose to select. Even if you look among those Brazilian players playing in Europe, it is possible to find players with better ball skills than Scolari's men.

Please, name a few.

And he should not include washed up ones like Dinho, Kaka, pato, Robinho..

They only brazilian that i think deserved a spot was Filipe Luiz and Miranda.. but these are defenders..Lucas Moura is mehhhh!! inclusion or exclusion does not change much IMO

I just don't think brazil currently have enough top class players compared to the past..

Let's be frank, these guys would have been an upgrade to the dross we saw at this World Cup.

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At the end of the day Brasil has improved from the last two WCs while Holland didn't achieve what they had the last WC.

So with LVG's touch he won third place, but with the other coach's touch they went to the finals and should have defeated Spain in the process. (this is for those who have been shrinning LVG).

And to those Nigerians hyping Keshi for the same result as 1994, how come you guys are telling us that Scolari didn't do a good job in Brasil even as he took them to the Semis (the last time he took them was in 2002 which he won)? Yarns!!

Except that they have HOME advantage this time around! Playing at home should count for something.

All those crucifying Scolari hailed him when he won the GLORIFIED FRIENDLY (Confed Cup).

Home advantage means nothing in football. The fact is Scolari took the team that was depleted and took them to the Semi -something they hadn't achieved since 2002 when he coached them to the finals and won the trophy.

I beg to differ..how did you think Brasil made it so far to the semi final? Even the confed they won last year was one of the benefits of playing on home soil. It may not take a team all the way, but it comes handy.

Home advantage is only and advantage if the opponents are not better than you. Home advantage did not push South Africa through in 2010 WC, it didn't push them through in 2013. How handy did that come?

Home advantage depends on the team at home and how they able to utilise it.

_________________Red Dwarf - Legion

Rimmer: Step up to Red AlertKryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.Rimmer: There's always some excuse, isn't there?