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Topic Review (Newest First)

07-26-2007 08:58 AM

juro

No argument at all, just good discussion!

I think the exchange has widened both of our perspectives.

07-25-2007 07:58 PM

Barryven

I see your point...and under the circumstances you describe, that seems to be correct.

in your initial post, when you were referring to identical movements for the double spey and circle, snap t, I assumed it was from the same side of the river. I often use them both on the same side of the river..with light, variable or no winds or if I want to make a more drastic change of direction .

If you say these two casts require exactly the same movements after the set-up...well, who am I to argue with you.

07-25-2007 05:58 PM

juro

Here's a clarification...

First let's separate the set-up move from the sweep, d-loop and cast. You've already done that in your post so we are on the same page.

Now imagine a double spey from the right bank, downriver wind. Set-up; sweep to D-loop, and cast. Beautiful.

Now imagine again a snap/circle from the left bank, upriver wind. Set-up differs, but the sweep to D-loop and cast should employ the same characteristics as same on the right bank double.

Perhaps this will be clearer...

Let's go to a very shallow round lake and walk out to the middle. No left or right bank, no current.

Now do a double. Then sweep to a d-loop, cast. Gor-geous.

Turn to face 90 degrees to the top hand side and then do a snap/circle.

The sweep, d-loop and cast should be nearly, if not identical to that of the first double. In my case, they are identical by design which gives me total consistency with both casts.

Many of my students make a different motion after the setup of a double vs. a snap or circle when in fact the moves employ the same mechanics. Most often someone with a great double will hurry a snap/circle or shortcut across to the d-loop instead of sweeping as they just had with their double.

My point is, you know one, you know the other as they are (aside from the setup) the same cast.

Hope that was clearer.

07-25-2007 04:56 PM

Barryven

Huh...maybe I'm doing it wrong. I use the double spey as a down stream shoulder cast and the snap-T, Circle as an upstream shoulder cast...and there quit different.. thus the sweep to create the D loop are different. The downstream sweep for the Double spey starts from the rod tip pointing upstream.and the nail knot just downstream from my down stream shoulder (usually) ..the upstream Sweep from the snap T starts with the Rod tip pointing down stream and the nail knot upstream or near my upstream shoulder
???

12-13-2005 01:43 PM

juro

Placing the anchor with snap/circle casts

To place the anchor at the proper location when doing a circle or snap-T/C cast...

Sometimes the anchor ends up too far upriver during a snap-C/T or circle spey cast. This in effect results in a bloody-L when you sweep it around, killing the efficiency of the cast.

When you do it right you should have dejavu as if doing a double-spey because the post-circle position of everything should be nearly identical to your double before you sweep.

If the anchor is over-short, it's most likely it's a matter of the force and float time you are allowing on the pull and push moves. Both of these casts (snap/circle) use a pull upriver as well as a push of the rod back downriver toward where the dangle once was. You should be able to place the end of the flyline where you want with a circle/snap cast provided the rod is suited to the line and you apply a balanced amount of force to suit the situation.

But here's the rub - both the pull and the push in these casts moves the end of the line upriver. Therefore it's important to manage these in concert to place the anchor.

Upon lift, think about gliding the far end of the line over the water toward the upriver anchor but only use enough pull force to move the end of the line halfway to the target. Huh? How does that put the end of the line at anchor? It DOESNT - the push takes it the rest of the way.

Thus while the line is still gliding upriver, push the rod back toward the dangle to pull even more against the line thus moving the end of the line the rest of the way.

If the anchor flies too far upriver, then either the pull force or the push force or both were too strong to place it. Usually a combination of both are to blame.

Now I simplified by saying half and half... sometimes you will need more pull than push or vice-versa... but my point is the force applied by the two phases = the force needed to put the anchor in the proper place.

A circle would incorporate more of an inclined climbing angle whereas the snap would track on a more horizontal plane, but unless you are in need of moving a sunken dangle a moderate compromise angle will do just fine.

Also since the next move following this is to sweep the line around, the shape of the rest of the head should accomodate the sweep.

I would add that often the anchor position is more accomodating than the final d-loop technique. In my experience the most common fault robbing the circle, snap or double from final casting power is over-rotation of the rod tip past the 5 o'clock stop position.

However the bloody-L is also a common problem, and if you tune both of these in you should be good to go regardless of the head length.

These are points I make while teaching the snap and circle Spey casts and based on the ah-ha's I get from students I believe this pull/push balance is the key to managing anchor position with this class of cast.