Open letter to non-Catholics re: Worshipping Mary

Dear non-Catholics,

Jesus said “Judge not, lest you be judged.” (Matt 7:1) This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Matthew 7:5, 6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults.

I am asking, so that we don’t have to fight with you, that you can take a step and try to understand what Catholics really do, rather than ascribing your own interpretation of what we do. This is sort of like saying that your pet smiled at you. So, if you want to know what Catholics mean when they do or say something, ASK ONE. Don’t depend on some ex-Catholic or Joel Osteen, or Oprah, or the secular news. Also, it’s not a good idea to lump us all together. That, in and of itself, is like racism or sexism.

First off, we do not worship Mary. Worship is a broad word. Not in the sense that you mean it. There are three words for worship which mean different things. Worship reserved for God alone = latria in Latin. Worship for people = respect= dulia in Latin. Worship for Mary = hyperdulia. Note that this is not a form of latria. It’s an elevated form of dulia. She is the most exalted of all God’s creature. (Creature is something God created.) Also, many of you say we honor Mary “too much”. This is vague. What’s “just enough”? Because many of you Protestants don’t honor her at all, other than singing “Round yon virgin mother and child” at Christmas. So what is your idea of “just enough”?

There are four dogmas concerning Mary. 1)She was born sinless. 2)She was a virgin throughout her life. 3) She is the Mother of God. 4)She was assumed body and soul into heaven. You say “prove it”? We can. It’s written. Not in the Bible, but in Christian Tradition, which was accepted even by Martin Luther, who had a great Marian devotion. See, we don’t play by your rules, but by the rules of Jesus and his appointed apostles. There was living tradition before there were gospels and letters. In fact, most of the letters predate the gospels. So before there was the written word of God, there was the spoken word of God. The apostles were the interpreters of both of these, and they made up the first magisterium. The apostles appointed successors, and by the laying on of hands, placed the Holy Spirit over them to guard them from error. Today’s bishops are successors to the apostles, and carry the same gift of the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals. To this day we still have Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium to rely on.

At any rate, dear separated brothers and sisters in Christ, please ask. We’ll tell you. We’re basically honest people. We worship God-the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We do it our way. As for the basics, I will never try to tell you you’re going to hell for worshipping the way you do. We don’t believe we have the understanding required to make that call. That’s a management decision. We here on earth are in sales. Now, when you look at how we worship God, and try to tell us we’re not doing it the right way, I have a problem with that, and will go to your blog and tell you so.

Tim Staples gave me that. What got me up? Look at my post called “Activities”, use Mamaharper’s link to go to her site, and you’ll see…Ah, heck, I’ll give out the URL…It’s http://mydamascusroad.wordpress.com. Note how the participants drink the kool-aid together, and wink knowingly at each other…

John 11:25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Spoken like a true used car sales man most definitely. lol. Likening the Way and being a servant of the living God to being a saleman. Don’t you know that no one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws him? You can’t sell the gospel. It’s free! John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Is He calling you?

The scripture convicts and changes hearts. So really, what happened? Did those protestants show you scripture? I followed the link and read the conversation. Lengthy. Really lengthy. I’m cross eyed right now. lol They actually seemed like they documented every thing they said with your own literature. I even looked some of the stuff, just to make sure they were’t just speaking out of ignorance. They weren’t. But your response was to say that the catholic church didn’t really mean what it said??? Common. That’s a very bad persuasion tactic. Then you used man’s tradition??? Shame on you. Mocking the Son of God, putting Him to open shame. However, It really was a great conversation. But honestly, if you were a salesmen, you need to work more on selling your points to people who read and understand the Bible through the Holy Spirit. The problem is this. Most people don’t. I don’t care if they are protestant or catholic or Kermit the frog. YHWH’s Word just doesn’t seem to take priority over the cares of the world. If it did, there wouldn’t be so many “christian” denominations or the catholic church. And when I use the term christian, understand I use it quite liberally, not literally. Of course, every one would rather think that somehow they can work for their salvation instead of allowing the Son of God to save them and change them: Him working in them to do the will of the Father. Every one wants to be in control don’t they? Say a few rosaries to atone for your sins. Take a few days off the purgatory sentence maybe? Say a cheap little prayer for fire insurance. So many are guilty of this, I know. Very sad indeed.

Tell me, the Book of Acts is the story of the early church. Why are not the customs of the catholics found anywhere in that book. Don’t trust my word for it. Read it yourself. Tell me, why are not any the rituals you use to make yourself pure found in the Book of Romans. Read it yourself. You won’t find your rituals. Infact, let’s take it further, why are all of the rituals you use to become acceptable to God never spoken of anywhere in the Holy Scriptures…even those accepted by your church???? Have you ever wondered? I have. Religion doesn’t save you. It never has. It is only the finished work of Jesus Christ on that horrid cross that saves anyone. I say horrid, but the truth is, that old rugged cross saved me from eternal death. And He’s not on that cross anyway. He defeated death and hell! Amen! We are free because He rose again! Yet, back to the cross. As much as I love Him, my sins put Him there. And yet, even if I was the only one who had faith in His atoning death alone, He still would have died for me. It is His free gift through faith, not of works, lest any one should boast. Read the scriptures without the dogma and see what you find. Honestly. Did you know Baptists are not supposed to dance? That’s not in the scripture. It’s man’s tradition. Good thing I’m not a Baptist. I love to dance, not in public of course. I’m a terrible dancer!

As far as traditions being on the same level as scripture: notice the passage catholics use to defend this is past tense. Read it yourself. You will see it’s true. Let me say it again. Past tense. Not ongoing.

2 Thessalonians 2: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

You would think if we are talking past tense here that our loving God would not have hid it from His written Word.

If you are happy thinking you can ever be good enough to stand before a perfect, righteous and jealous God AND the One who died for you without His imputed righteousness, go ahead. Take that gamble. Eternity. Wow. Remember, God said he would send a delusion so great that all who were perishing would believe the lie. That’s why He preserved His word. We can check everything anyone ever tells us with the sure Word. Anyone. We are commanded to test every spirit. It’s not a suggestion. It’s a command.

I also think it was interesting that you stated that the pope asked others NOT to kiss the Koran? A bit hypocritical don’t you think? The muslims say God has no Son. It’s an abmonination. Yet the Triune God of Abraham, Jacaob and Isaac does have a Son. A Son who gave Himself as a final sacrifice for Sin. Obviously not the same God. To be the same God, it has to be the same God in every way, or else it’s different. That’s common logic right?

By the way Sandy “management” has made it’s decision loud and clear. Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

John 10:27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Oh I beg you! Please read the Holy Scipture and take every word of it to heart. Is is the difference between eternal life and eternal death.

Ephesians 2:4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

As far as Mary worship and the other points you brought up, I think they were pretty much exhausted on damascusroad. Again, thanks for the link! Forgive my sarcasm in places on this comment. I just don’t have tolerance for religion. I really do speak in love. I would hate to see you perish after being told the truth.

Wow, that is really mean spirited David. That makes me really sad that said that. I only go by the scriptures, which I guess is what you are calling kool-aid?

I never judged you, I only asked you to question things when your church leaders say things that go in conflict with scriptures. You have no idea what I went through when I was deceived by the leaders of my church. It brought me into a depression that put me to bed for 2 days straight, and I never get down, but I had to rip off some of my attachments to fleshly thinking. I had to make the choice between leaving my church and staying true to Jesus’ commandments or leaving my church family behind to follow my Lord. You have absolutely no idea what struggles I went through and yet you are on here saying that we wink while we drink the poison of sola-scriptura. I feel like yet another Christian has stabbed me in the back. I don’t ever remember being unkind or even judging you in the least. In fact, when I commented on your kind heart and devotion to the King, I got jumped on by my classmates, did I not? I honestly wanted to understand the things I did not know about the Catholic Church.

It’s funny because I was so glad to see how much we had in common, about how we were both researching different appostasies that are creeping into the fellowship of believers. You even invited me over to your blog, only to see that you are over here trashing me to others. Wow, I am really stunned. I really am. This really makes me sad. The only thing I have to hold onto in my life is my faith in Jesus Christ and His Word, and you call it kool-aid. I doubt you’ll post this either, since you didn’t post my last post, which is fine, because it’s between me, you and God how you have hurt me. I forgive you, though. I really do. We may not agree on our understanding of scripture, David, but please always remember to never put any man above Jesus who loves you so much. Just keep those words in your heart until the Lord calls you home.

God Bless you brother,
I won’t be back to spread any more poison over here.
Go in Peace and go with God.
His Servant Always,
Kari

Welcome servant. Your understanding of what I said there is flawed. What I said is that the passages didn’t mean what they were saying they meant. And mostly, they don’t. To answer your questions about ‘ritual’s, you’ll have to be more specific. But you’re right about one thing “the finished work of Jesus Christ on that horrid cross that saves”.

Kari, I sent a personal reply, but those comments were not intended for you, and probably should have been kept to myself. No, the scriptures are not kool-aid. What was kool-aid was mamaharper and kit and the way they handled the dialog. They seemed very exclusive, when Jesus wants us to be inclusive. In fact, I was ‘banned’ from mamaharper’s site. I have been in the same place you are when it comes to switching churches, even switching parishes because a priest became too politics oriented. We can talk about sola scriptura, if you like. I didn’t call it a poison. I was referring to those two individuals. Yes, they treated you badly, too, and that is the poison I was referring to.

I am glad that you see the commonality, and are interested in that, as much as seeing the untruths that are told about us. There is no man above Jesus, Kari. Please come back.

I did not comment to you one way or the other, as far as the “management” goes, I thought it was a clever statement myself, from David. That was what I was referring to.

As far as blasting me with Scriptures I read my Bible and have for years. You do not know my relationship with God nor what He reveals to me in Scripture and to me this is the point David was trying to make.

Some seem to think God in some form or fashion relinquished the decision on who gets into heaven or who stays out of it, and this is not true. God alone has control over that not you or anyone else, including myself or David, on which he would agree.

If you were told you were going to hell as much as we are you would get sick of it also, and what he is trying to do is explain all anyone has to do is ask us. He also was trying to explain why we do what we do.

I was a Protestant almost all of my life and have nothing against the Protestants. What I do have a problem with are those who feel they “know Scripture better than anyone else and shove it down our throats” telling us “we are going to hell” “mocking the way we pray” and setting themselves up as “God” and “judging our hearts and our souls.” Yes, we do get tired of it and at times it is hard not speak out on it.

As far as the “Hail Mary’s” being mocked that prayer is totally from Scripture and we say nothing to or about Mary that was not said by an Angel or Elizabeth. Elizabeth called her the “Mother of my Lord.” Jesus is God and that is why we call her the “Mother of God.” You can also use Lord as Elizabeth did, which ever one you want. Do you think Jesus did not honor or love His mother? I would think if He did it is okay for us to also. After all we do worship and love His Father? That is okay. God honored her Himself by impregnating her with His Son. Jesus/Man God is the Son of God and Mary, like it or not. His Divinity belongs to God alone.

As far as our rituals not being in the Bible and the way we worship: it was foreshadowed in the OT with Moses and Aaron and Jesus fulfilled this form of worship with Holy Communion. God is an unchanging God and never changed the way He wanted us to worship Him, man did. Instead of the “Passover Meal” being just for the Jewish people, He gave to us the Eucharist which is for the whole world. The Apostles carried on this form of worship with all the traditions given back in the OT.

What you do not understand is that everything in the OT foreshadowed everything in the NT. Examples: The Flood “foreshadowed/prefigured baptisim” Abraham’s sacrifice of his son “foreshadowed God sacrificing His” Isaac carrying the wood on his back “foreshadowed Christ carrrying the Cross” etc.. You will find many examples like this in the Bible if you know how to, and you will also find Mary as she is in over 300 places in the Bible. She is foreshadowed much in the OT. I do not know all 300 but I know many.

What I am telling you by this is.. as far as our worship, how God wanted this to take place was given again to Moses and Aaron. If you will go read it, you will see many things which the Apostles taught. The only thing that changed was, was the offering of everything Jesus did and Jesus Himself, instead of the lamb on the altar. Instead of the sprinkling of the blood we receive the Blood of the Lamb. It is all the same concept. You do the same thing when you ask a prayer in the “Name of Jesus.” Why do you do this? You offer God Jesus and all that He did for you on the Cross. But that is right, “He is not on there anymore” yet it is through the “Eyes of the Cross” that God has to look at us, isn’t it? For God to have mercy on us, He must see us through the “Mercy on the Cross” as that is what Jesus offers to God for us. His death and His rising.

You will see in the NT where there is still an altar, you will also see in the OT where the offering of Jesus was the fulfilling of the prophecy, “Where a pure Sacrifice would be offered to God on His altar.”

Jesus also said “Do this in memory of Me?” Do what? There is an action there is there not? You take the bread and break it give thanks and offer it to God. The same with the wine. It must be done by a Priest as set up by God Himself. That is why Jesus gave these instructions to the Apostles.

When you can piece the entire Bible together from Genesis to Revelations, then you will be able to see and understand why we do what we do. It is not just about giving Scriptures here and there. The Word of God is the entire plan of God for mankind. He never changed one way He did things, He used different people was all. To say He did change the way He does things, is making Scripture go against itself and Scripture does not do that. God Himself said, “He never changes.” For 1500 years God was given the worship He set in place until the reformation.

And as far as “not liking religion.” Jesus Himself set up religion and a Church and gave the doctrine which He wanted to be put into place. God has always had a Temple/Church where people assembled together to worship Him. That never changed either. If you will read your NT you will see the members of this Church are called His, “Holy One’s.” There was not 40 million different Churches, there was only one. With a unity of believers all believing and doing the same thing. Rituals and traditons, everything.

To me that is what is wrong with the whole thing. Some think they can worship God like they choose and that is not what the Bible says. There are instructions and doctrine on these things given to us by Jesus and taught by the Apostles.

God is God and we do it His way, not ours. God always had instructions for everything. You know if you will read your NT many were sick and dying because of “their abuse to Holy Communion.” Now if something was just “symbolic” why were people dying?

You will also find where the Corinths were being baptized for “the dead.” This is one of the reasons we pray for the dead. Now ask yourself this? They were being baptized for the “dead.” Where were these dead? They could not have been in hell, as judgment was already in place. They could not be in heaven as there is no need for forgiveness there, is there? These dead have to be some place else don’t they? Purgatory.

“I beg you, please read Holy Scripture Ruth, and take every word to heart. It is the difference between eternal life and eternal death.”

Now how does it make you feel? This is what we go through all the time. Our persecution though only brings us to greater worship, greater prayer, and greater faith.