a reply to: Sremmos80 well many do not adhere to either but still find cause to disagree with the teachings of paul. So yes i
meant christians but it seems that many have knowledge of the subject so i'm just trying to get all the angles.

a reply to: Sremmos80 lol are you a head doctor? jk
So many posters and threads here in these forums express the feelings that he is this and that but not what he seems and that most are being duped by
his teachings.

Geez, the word "hate" gets thrown around easily by members who use it to describe a wide range of Feelings that don't fit their world view;
including snippets of truth.

Let's see now, time to answer your question. Paul was not with Jesus, never met Jesus, never knew the man or heard his words with his own ears. He
hated Christians at the start. He was not a follower or disciple of Jesus.

From the outside looking in, it looks like Paul saw a way to make himself famous if only he could find a way to take over the early christian movement
that was currently being overseen by Jesus' older brother. The one we call James for some stupid reason. Who ever heard of an ancient Arabic called
James, pfft!

Basically, Paul claims to have met Jesus on the road. He is converted. He then takes it upon himself to push his slightly different view of things to
anyone who will listen. Prior to Paul's letters to everyone everywhere, the movement was not saying Jesus died for your sins, or that Jesus was the
only living son of God, or that rose again after death. So we must assume that Paul instigated such lies and pushed them to further his own agenda.

Paul misled the new church and took it in the direction he saw for himself rather than where Jesus had intended it to go. Proof for this is in Jesus
own words as recorded by Thomas, who was a disciple and follower WITH Jesus. Jesus made many claims about our own personal spirituality, that the path
to knowing it was an internal one and that we could do as he had done if we aligned ourselves with that inner knowledge.

Paul on the other hand must have wanted people to be followers and not find real truths, but instead be happy to not do what Jesus wanted for us, and
just close our minds again and be told by leaders (like Paul) what God wants from us. And that is the biggest difference created by Paul.. to continue
the servitude of mind and belief so that we stay slaves to the system in place.

Odd that part because in our Catholic upbringing, Paul was discussed quite a bit for his unjust and chauvinistic attitude towards women and slaves,
and wasn't believed whole heartedly by quite a few of us. There are intelligent feminists in the Church's and in many families who tend to discuss
openly all kinds of issues.

However, not sure every word can be turned into metaphors in the bible, but alot of it can and is, for they are truly gnostic messages, that which is
a parable and contains inner gems, often with a completely opposite meaning to the outer nonsense and especially relating to passages that are
smiting, warring, or would ever have the Highest Love and Goodness/God murder anyone even a criminal.

So some of the passages relating to Paul may be additions by Rome, to stir and muddy the waters, or alterations. The stuff about women and slaves
for example.

However, Paul was a gnostic and his writings are inner seeking scriptures which is probably why if Rome was going to alter, they'd alter him to try
and draw away from the deeper inner meanings of some of his passages, such as this one:

Those whom are trying to remove the importance of the Apostle Saul whom became an apostle after he encountered the presence of christ on the Road to
damascus where he became blinded (so that he would learn to see) after the voice of the great light asked him why he was persecuting him and called
itself Jesus, later Saul received back his sight as scales fell from his eye's (Symbolic of the serpant which was against Christ and it was removed
from Saul so suddenly he could REALLY see), after a meeting with the other original apostles Saul was named an apostle and called Paul, he had
formerly worked for the Temple Authority's and was a devout man but misguided by the Corrupt and Imperial Roman appointed Sanhedrin (something that
most history forget's they were not Rabbi appointed but appointed from Rome as the original Sanhedrin had been put to death when Rome conquered
Judea.
Paul a full Jew and Perhaps actually a Rabbi himself as well as a Roman citizen was Chosen by Christ to bring the Gospel (Good new's of salvation and
god's forgiveness through Christ) to the Gentiles whom even though uncircumcised had recieved a blessing from god, Part of the house of Israel became
the Branch cut off (But not forever as he has promised jacob all his transgression's will be forgiven) and the Gentile's whom accepted the Christ and
through him via the sacremant became part of his body are the branch grafted on (This is eternal though all will be judged on a one to one basis).
The Anti Christ moves in many heart's to cloud there mind's and blind there judgement, he seek's to take away hope from they whom believe and slander
and lie about the mission of Paul to the gentile's so as to make them think they are not saved and not wanted, this is an absolute lie as Paul was
selected by Christ on the Road to Damascus, On the Road we are all on to bring the good new's to us and to preach the gospel of salvation and
forgiveness.
But we must accept christ into our heart's and as christ once said to the crowd when they where about to stone Mary Magdelain whom amongst us is
whithout sin and yet with him there is salvation as he is the judge of us and at that stoning he picked up a stone before challenging the crowd, "Let
he whom is without sin cast the first stone", Authority they could not understand was in his voice and they knew he could see into them so they all
dropped there stone's and walked away, then he said "Then Neither shall I" and the meaning is if we sinner's cast the stones we will answer to him at
our judgement but if we are merciful and just and try to do the right thing's, help the poor when it is possible and do no harm as best we can, try
not to harm others in any way except in self defence and only if we have to then we can expect the same from our Lord as he is Our king and the
Apostle Paul is one of his servant's and remember also Peter came to Rome as well.
Do not be deceived by the serpant in there heart's as if they know what they are doing they can expect to answer for it before the Christ on there
judgement but If they do not he will be merciful but not the the serpant.
Peace and god bless.

And to Unity_99, it was the way of the world back then and had nothing to do with Christ himself whom said there is not difference between a man and
a woman in the resurrection, indeed most early churches and not only the catholic church recognize christ naming his mother our mother and us as her
children, she intercedes on our behalf directly with christ, was a male priest of saint ever given such a burden or authority.
He made this while crucifed so sacrificed between heaven and earth, non come to the father except by me, he whom see's me see's the father.
He is at the right hand of the father and only by him can we be saved but only the pure in heart shall see god.

I do not really know the historical person behind Paul so I can only say something about the message in the bible. He is a divider of people and
judges those who do not follow his version of Christian faith. When I read his parts of the bible I get a feeling of a power hungry salesman with a
superiority complex that is trying to hard to sell me something.

If he is not beyond female male duality thinking then he will not be far enough spiritually to teach me anything. And wearing a cloth of his view
before god is nothing I need. To me he creates a garment to try to hide what you are under.

Jesus makes me want to act against injustice. Paul preaches to let the injustice continue because it has always been. Paul makes the road wide and
easy while Jesus tells you the truth about how narrow it is.

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