If we are gonna start keeping score, the Alliance has been in two of our cities. We've only been in one of yours as far as I can remember. But yeah I agree. Story-lost battles suck on both sides. But if you know how it feels, then why the fuck are you still crying?

Alliance are upset over their victories never being shown in game. Never seeing Gilneas restored or Ashenvale reclaimed, nothing happening to Stonard but with us getting kicked out of Andorhal, etc, or only happening in books. They're upset that Theramore gets nuked in game but we'll never see alliance claimed dalaran in game or Gilneans resettlign Gilneas post SoO like Varian alludes to. That is the crux of alliance complaints, not the scorecard but how much actually makes it into the game.

Alliance are upset over their victories never being shown in game. Never seeing Gilneas restored or Ashenvale reclaimed, nothing happening to Stonard but with us getting kicked out of Andorhal, etc, or only happening in books. They're upset that Theramore gets nuked in game but we'll never see alliance claimed dalaran in game or Gilneans resettlign Gilneas post SoO like Varian alludes to. That is the crux of alliance complaints, not the scorecard but how much actually makes it into the game.

Ah so it's not enough that the Horde gets fucked in books constantly, it has to be shown in game too. Ok. Let's but then let's make sure we keep everything equal. For one of your victories we get one. For one of your "official city raids" (like SOO) we get to raid one of your cities. For each one of our characters that dies one of yours has to die too.

....

Blizzards biggest mistake in WoW is the fact that they focused so much on the Orchish Horde. While the Orcs have been the "stars" of the past Warcraft games they noticed that they don't actually have a lore foothold in Azeroth so they started making it up --- Completed with the Tauren that had appeared with WC3 and with the Undead who are just as "young", trolls being too "good" to be limited to one faction lore and so on, there had to be a lot of stuff added so both factions would feel equal in that sense --- I suppose the alliance took that as Horde favoritism and here we are.

Look, I think I'm not the only Horde player that is sick of Orc stories... but don't think for a second that the Horde would be happy to be the gimp faction to make you feel better cause you think you deserve it.

the alliance will never be happy unless the horde is completely killed off. which would let the burning legion win

I just love this strawman.

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Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx

yeah well the alliance(i meant players) are hypocrites when it comes to wrathion. they believe that if the war continues the alliance would have won with heavy causalities but refuse to believe the part were the horde would have won the war if garrosh wasnt an idiot and made the horde split. so its kind of meh.

With the shitty writing Blizzard has foisted upon the Alliance? Yeah, they would have lost. Garrosh and the Horde had pretty awesome autowin. It was almost like plot armor. But Garrosh was clearly dominating.

So I'm not sure where the hypocrisy is here.

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Originally Posted by Evilfish

Which is why the Horde is pissed. No one likes to lose a battle just because someone wrote it on paper. And a lot of good did that do since the Alliance is still crying that it wasn't "enough"....

Are you...are you fucking serious here? Do I need to point to ALL of Cataclysm?

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Originally Posted by Arrashi

Knowledge is nothing without ability to use it. He still is pathetic failure, unable to achieve anything.

What are you people talking about with comments like this? Wrathion WAS using the knowledge he received. Varian acted totally unlike how he had in the past here (Something Wrathion missed because Varian's transition was through the timeline of MoP in the story while Wrathion was setting things up). You really can't plan for:

a.) A Warchief to just randomly become crazy and turn on his own people
b.) A High King to just totally shift mentality and do the exact opposite of what he would have done in the past.

Do you guys not understand that the reason he WAS angry at the end of the Legendary Quest Chain was because what knowledge he was using to manipulate things from behind the scenes didn't work because of Varian's change in position toward the Horde? Whether or not Wrathion failed actually isn't even relevant to this conversation. He was most assuredly using the knowledge he gained.

Garrosh exist so mary sues our beloved protagonists can have moral jerk and show how good people they actually are. In other words, he died for our lack of sins.

Kind of reminds me of Marauder Shields

Originally Posted by Arrashi

Knowledge is nothing without ability to use it. He still is pathetic failure, unable to achieve anything.

Cersei Lannister said the same about Petyr. And look at how it ended for her. Sometimes it takes but a single pinpoint strike to make it all come crashing down.

Originally Posted by KrazyK923

What are you people talking about with comments like this? Wrathion WAS using the knowledge he received. Varian acted totally unlike how he had in the past here (Something Wrathion missed because Varian's transition was through the timeline of MoP in the story while Wrathion was setting things up). You really can't plan for:

a.) A Warchief to just randomly become crazy and turn on his own people
b.) A High King to just totally shift mentality and do the exact opposite of what he would have done in the past.

Do you guys not understand that the reason he WAS angry at the end of the Legendary Quest Chain was because what knowledge he was using to manipulate things from behind the scenes didn't work because of Varian's change in position toward the Horde? Whether or not Wrathion failed actually isn't even relevant to this conversation. He was most assuredly using the knowledge he gained.

Haha, true. He thought logic worked in Warcraft, but even he couldn't predict the sheer amount of derp that was in MoP story

"A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

Cersei Lannister said the same about Petyr. And look at how it ended for her. Sometimes it takes but a single pinpoint strike to make it all come crashing down.

Haha, true. He thought logic worked in Warcraft, but even he couldn't predict the sheer amount of derp that was in MoP story

He made one fatal mistake. He assumed. And assuming kills people. Think about emprah. He assumed his sons would never betray him, especially for some eldritch horros from outer space. And how did it ended for him ? Nine legions worth of pissed badass (some already merged with they armor) knocking to his door, and golden wheelchair without wheels. Seriously kids - dont assume.

Also wrathion is far too incompetent and weak to achieve something. There is as far, as his empty promises can carry him, and after that tauntum at the end of "legendary" questline, i doubt anyone will treat him seriously.

He made one fatal mistake. He assumed. And assuming kills people. Think about emprah. He assumed his sons would never betray him, especially for some eldritch horros from outer space. And how did it ended for him ? Nine legions worth of pissed badass (some already merged with they armor) knocking to his door, and golden wheelchair without wheels. Seriously kids - dont assume.

Also wrathion is far too incompetent and weak to achieve something. There is as far, as his empty promises can carry him, and after that tauntum at the end of "legendary" questline, i doubt anyone will treat him seriously.

Any plan is built on a dose of assumptions. Extrapolating doesn't always work, but it tends to. Also, Blizzard gave him a unique model, that alone means he'll play a major role some day, if only to become another dark scheming supervillain whom we overpower with sheer ridiculousness.

"A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

Ah so it's not enough that the Horde gets fucked in books constantly, it has to be shown in game too. Ok. Let's but then let's make sure we keep everything equal. For one of your victories we get one. For one of your "official city raids" (like SOO) we get to raid one of your cities. For each one of our characters that dies one of yours has to die too.

...

Blizzards biggest mistake in WoW is the fact that they focused so much on the Orchish Horde. While the Orcs have been the "stars" of the past Warcraft games they noticed that they don't actually have a lore foothold in Azeroth so they started making it up --- Completed with the Tauren that had appeared with WC3 and with the Undead who are just as "young", trolls being too "good" to be limited to one faction lore and so on, there had to be a lot of stuff added so both factions would feel equal in that sense --- I suppose the alliance took that as Horde favoritism and here we are.

Look, I think I'm not the only Horde player that is sick of Orc stories... but don't think for a second that the Horde would be happy to be the gimp faction to make you feel better cause you think you deserve it.

Again, people aren't complaining about how the story progresses in the novels. People are complaining about how important novel events don't get reflected in-game unless it pertains to the Horde in terms of victories. As for important lore figures the Alliance races have lost (either to death, neutrality or awal): Arthas, Illidan, Bolvar, Uther, Turalyon, Alleria and Tirion come to mind. I agree though that the Horde has few original (i.e. before Thrall's Horde) heroes left but thats mostly due to them dying before WoW than anything else.

I agree about the Orcish Horde being too heavily focused on though they had very good reason to do so since they were the original Horde. I miss Cairne and am happy that Lorthemar and others got developed in MoP but other than Varian, Anduin and Jaina (whose scenes were largely cringeworthy; I did enjoy the beginning part of the Dalaran/Jaina bit in-game and Anduin in Jade Forest) no Alliance lore figures had more than one scene, if that, throughout the entire expansion.

Any plan is built on a dose of assumptions. Extrapolating doesn't always work, but it tends to. Also, Blizzard gave him a unique model, that alone means he'll play a major role some day, if only to become another dark scheming supervillain whom we overpower with sheer ridiculousness.

Assuming is for weak and stupid, great minds "Just as Planned" they way to victory. Also do you think Creed ever assumed anything ?

As for wrathions model, i dont think it matter, given how non-combatant it looks. Its possible he will be betrayed by some sorcerer with sweet voice, or something.

Also wrathion is far too incompetent and weak to achieve something. There is as far, as his empty promises can carry him, and after that tauntum at the end of "legendary" questline, i doubt anyone will treat him seriously.

Except he was so powerful that we had to get him special equipment for him to give us his power or it would have destroyed us. I don't actually think you've played the Legendary chain or know his lore.

Assuming is for weak and stupid, great minds "Just as Planned" they way to victory. Also do you think Creed ever assumed anything ?

...this is exactly what Wrathion was doing. But his goal was the dissolution of either the Horde or Alliance, so of course that wasn't going to actually happen. He had every single one of his ducks in a row. He flat out says this. Varian just did the exact opposite of what he had done before, something nobody foresaw (Including Jaina and Anduin, both of whom look confused/upset at his actions in the cinematic). I'm not sure why you keep downplaying Wrathion, is it because he bet against the Horde in the end? Because that is what it is seeming like the more I see you speak.

Except he was so powerful that we had to get him special equipment for him to give us his power or it would have destroyed us.

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Horde logic. Full of strawmen.

Yeah, i saw that "power" when he was covering like a little bitch before illusion of deathwing that chicken made. Baby lost will to live ?
Also, that was the point of legendary cloak ? I thought it was supposed to catch a warm air so we can float over hole in timeless isle.

Yeah, i saw that "power" when he was covering like a little bitch before illusion of deathwing that chicken made. Baby lost will to live ?
Also, that was the point of legendary cloak ? I thought it was supposed to catch a warm air so we can float over hole in timeless isle.

This comment means nothing and proves nothing in this conversation, except a further confirmation you don't actually know the story.

Except he was so powerful that we had to get him special equipment for him to give us his power or it would have destroyed us. I don't actually think you've played the Legendary chain or know his lore.

...this is exactly what Wrathion was doing. But his goal was the dissolution of either the Horde or Alliance, so of course that wasn't going to actually happen. He had every single one of his ducks in a row. He flat out says this. Varian just did the exact opposite of what he had done before, something nobody foresaw (Including Jaina and Anduin, both of whom look confused/upset at his actions in the cinematic). I'm not sure why you keep downplaying Wrathion, is it because he bet against the Horde in the end? Because that is what it is seeming like the more I see you speak.

Except in this conversation you're doing nothing but ignoring actual counterpoints to your argument and instead berating imaginaryAlliancePostX who is, apparently, advocating for the entire Horde to be destroyed.

I couldn't really care less if other Alliance players use strawman arguments. That means nothing.

Yeah, i saw that "power" when he was covering like a little bitch before illusion of deathwing that chicken made. Baby lost will to live ?
Also, that was the point of legendary cloak ? I thought it was supposed to catch a warm air so we can float over hole in timeless isle.

So having emotional baggage because of who his father is means he's not powerful? And the cloaks are powerful items, though I don't exactly think they were required to defeat garrosh lore wise.

Florena pretty much got it covered. Your only argument seems to be is that he's young (A whelping). I hope you realize that there are different power levels for different people. Jaina is more powerful than another woman her age. Wrathion is an uncorrupted Black Dragon, cleansed and empowered by the Titan artifact during the Badlands quest chain.

Throughout Mists of Pandaria we've been doing nothing but powering him up by giving him different things. Manifestations of Wisdom and Power, knowledge about the Mogu, knowledge about the Titans, the heart of the Thunder King, a spear empowered by a Lightning Serpent, stones filled with time magic.

And then there's the 5.3 quest where he needs to be physically disadvantaged or he'd easily kill us.