AICN World Exclusive: Massawyrm Has Played Dungeons And Dragons 4th Edition!!

Hola all. Massawyrm here.
I’ve waited a long time to write this review. And let it be known now that what you’re about to read isn’t from someone who has gotten a hold of a bootleg playtest copy and gave it a quick once over. No. This is a long time coming. I’ve been playtesting 4th edition since late October. Long under an NDA, my excitement for this new edition has been bubbling over into something of a churning froth for the better part of four months now. Every Saturday of those four months (holidays be damned) our group (comprised of three married couples and a single friend) has gotten together to nosh some potato chips, guzzle some coffee and roll some god damned dice. One of our members, a freelancer for WotC, needed to learn the rules for an upcoming 4E book he got hired to work on. But as he apparently learns the rules better playing than he does running, he turned to me over a cup of coffee, narrowed his eyes and told me point blank that I was about to jump in head first. That’s right. Dungeon Massawyrm. There. Now the joke is out of everyone’s system.
Let me just say this upfront. I. Love. 4E. And I didn’t want to. Much like many of you out there, the 3.5 partial reboot just five years ago pissed me off. But we’ve spent 8 years now with the better part of this system. And hell, even 5 years is a long time. But Massawyrm, you’re thinking you don’t know how much I’ve spent on 3.5. No? Here at the Casa de la Wyrm we don’t have a D&D bookshelf. We have a D&D closet. It’s where I keep my boxes of Dwarven Forge Master Maze, my big plastic bins of D&D Minis, and two long shelves of over $1000 in 3.5 books. But just 2 weeks into playing 4E, I boxed up every non-fluff heavy book I owned, drove down to Half Price Books and sold them for as much cash as I could get. I knew I would never, ever, touch them again. Yes. 4E really is that good. It is the XBOX 360 to your XBOX. And it is time to upgrade my friends.
One other thing to note is that the playtest DID NOT INCLUDE the use of the DI (Digital Initiative.) There have been a lot of rumors that you need this new online service to play. These rumors are horseshit. We have played for four months with only a Players Handbook, a Dungeon Masters Guide and a Monster Manual. And Nothing else. 4E does not require a computer. Although if everything I hear about it is true, I just might want to keep my laptop with me once it is up and running.
What’s about to follow is a three part story. But it’s not about the details. What they changed here or what isn’t there. After this weekend every gaming forum out there will be flooded with details. This is going to be about the experience. What it is like playing Dungeons & Dragons 4E. This isn’t an article meant just for you junkies who, like myself, can quote the 3.5 rules - chapter and verse. It’s also for those of you who haven’t played in 15 years and secretly, though you might never admit it, wish you could go back and play it again. Or for those out there who haven’t played, but always wanted to. This June, 4th Edition will be unleashed upon the world and it is the perfect time to pick up the hobby or give it a second shot.
Every decade or so Dungeons & Dragons gets a make over. Not just a facelift, but a complete rebooting of the system. What I’ve always loved about these reboots is that each time the designers make sure to integrate, rather than move away from, the innovations of the previous decade. When 2E came out in ’89, it took all of the math, the charts and the diversity that had emerged in gaming throughout the 80’s and created one of the most complicated systems to date. When 3E hit the shelves in 2000, it took the revolution of the Vampire White Wolf Storyteller system - the notion of complete character individuality and modular options – and gave it a strong, but much more complicated system to work with. Now, with the revolutions in online gaming, Dungeons & Dragons once again finds itself evolving. From Everquest to the World of Warcraft (and the many other imitators in between and after) comes the notion of perfect balance – the idea that every class, every character, every role in the party, has something to do and never, ever, has to sit on the sidelines.
That is the single most important change to this system. I don’t care what you’re playing, whether the party’s wizard, its cleric, the fighter or its rogue, you will always have the option of doing something useful. You will never be forced (as long as you’re conscious) to simply sit and watch everyone else play because you’ve run out of spells or don’t have a high enough Spell Penetration or lack a weapon property to get through DR. Those days are done. Clerics don’t just hide behind the fighter waiting to stand them up any more. And you can actually successfully run a party without one now. Oh, and the retarded notion of having to rest for the day because the wizard blew through his spells too quickly (even when the rest of the party is full up)? Over and done with. In redesigning the way the character classes work, they’ve managed to eradicate most of the stupid tropes that we ’ve all just kind of sighed at and tried to ignore in the context of role playing.
Now, there’s a notion floating around out there that since the goal of 4E was to make the rules simple it means that they’re making them stupid – as to be easier for younger or dumber players to understand. The problem with that, aside from the fact that its probably one of the more arrogant stances out there, is that it belies a complete misunderstand of what 4E is all about. Is it simpler thatn 3.x? Oh hell yes. But it is elegantly simple. Intuitive. It’s like complaining that switching from DOS to Windows was stupid because now anyone could use a computer. When really all it meant was that now you didn’t have to type all that code. Your computer wasn’t dumbed down any. Neither is D&D. It still has all the complication that was in 3.5 – lots of character options, a focus on role playing and tactical combats that are even far more elaborate than before (more on that later.) But all the rules work just like every other rule does. They all make sense.
You pretty much know how a rule works before you look it up because it works just like the rule for this other situation.
The problem with Dungeons & Dragons has always been that everything is a special case. Every spell interacts with the universe differently and has to encounter a thousand different monsters. The soul of 4E is that now all those rules spin in the same direction (if you will) rather than flying off in a hundred different ones. At first glance there are a couple rule changes that will seem silly. The one that crawled up my craw the first session was the fact that diagonal movement counts as just one square. The idea that you could move faster diagonally than you could straight or side to side is retarded. But by the second session I didn’t care. Why? No one EVER had to recount a movement. You could eyeball distances without surprises popping up because you forgot to double count the second diagonal.
Everyone moves and counts and there’s never a hint of second guessing. And when it came down to it, any optimization a player could get out of it was balanced by the monsters having the same thing. Life is just easier this way.
EVERY RULE CHANGE IS LIKE THIS. It all just works. Fluid, intuitive and fun.
And man is it fun. The new tactics are incredible. Anyone who thinks simple rules mean simple combats is in for a shock. Every class has a slate of weird abilities and powers that set them apart from every other class – and when a party learns each other’s tactics and begins to work in concert, watch the fuck out. Because things get crazy. Tomorrow’s piece will be about what it’s like to exist as a DM in this new tactical environment, because a DM really has to be on his toes. Simple minded DMs are going to get walked all over by a competent group of players.
The new combat system is glorious. There are so many options, so many opportunities to do really fun and incredible things, that the game becomes more about what you want to do in the moment rather than just sitting around waiting for your turn to come up. Combats still take about as long as they did before, you just get to do more during them. While iterative attacks are gone, it never feels like they’re missing. The Fighter is still a sword whirling death machine that gets a lot of chances to drop beasts. Rather than hour and a half 3 round combats, you end up with 10-20 round epic combats that allow everyone to do a variety of things. It no longer seems like a waste of a turn to move, it’ll get back to you momentarily. Sometimes moving two or three rounds in a row really pays off. You no longer have to worry about missing out on any action just because you want to get into position. Which leads to crazier maneuvers and more fun at the table.
And the rule simplicity allows players to really attempt craziness without fear of bizarre rules. My wife, who has played 3.5 with us for years, never felt comfortable with it. She was always concerned that she didn’t know the rules as well as everyone else. While she enjoyed the game (and having friends over to play once a week) she isn’t the type to sit down with the rulebooks and memorize them. She’s geeky enough to live with and love me, but she draws the line in the dirt there. 4E on the other hand has made her a different woman. She’s confident. She loves her character and the rules and tries out all sorts of strange things. She no longer looks at me and asks “Is this right?” Instead, she plows forward, kicking ass and suggesting tactics to the more senior members of the party (like the game designer.) And she asks me repeatedly about whether or not I’ve planned next weeks game. She looks forward to it.
And amid the rule changes comes the racial and class changes. While there’s been much ado about these concepts, the new focus of the game places a lot on the role playing and direct play aspect of race and class. There is a difference between a 6th level Eladrin ranger and an Elf ranger. One gets to reroll one attack every combat and ignore difficult terrain while shifting (making a 5 foot adjust) and the other can teleport 5 squares once a combat.
Let me tell you, there’s a big difference. Dwarves are more than just short guys with low Move rates and a +2 to CON. They make great fighters for a reason, not just because the fluff says so. But at the same time there aren’
t any disadvantages to playing against type. No one will roll their eyes at a Dwarf Rogue or (once they’re out) Half Orc Sorcerers. There are benefits to playing WITH type, but never penalties for against. And that makes a WORLD of difference. Race in 3.X was all about what it did for you at 1st level and what it did to your stats. After that, it rarely mattered. Now it’
s also about what it does for you at 6th or 17th or whatever.
As has been written about, there are three stages of play now. Heroic (lvls 1-10), Paragon (lvls 11-20) and Epic (21-30.) Each stage really is its own beast. Heroic is just that. It’s what most would think of as lvls 1-6 in 3.x. Flight doesn’t exist for the players yet and neither do prestige classes (now called Paragon Paths.) You’re tough but not ungodly so. Paragon really is the middle range where you get to do all sorts of crazy stuff without ever getting too silly. It’s also where you really get to step away from your class and become something new and different. And Epic is just plain silly. I honestly see a lot of folks stopping at paragon – but for those that want to get into truly EPIC level, mythologically powerful gaming, epic will do the trick. With class abilities that begin with phrases like Once per day, when you die… it allows for a whole, bizarre new type of play that actually manages to maintain its consistency. But more about all this in later.
Is there anything I don’t like? Not in the rules. It’s all nitpicky stuff about what gets released when. I miss my Half-Orcs, my sorcerers and kinda wish Druids were around for the initial release. Then there’re a few complaints about the monsters that aren’t out versus those that are (but more of that on day 3.) The rules? They’re damned near perfect. I have zero complaints. I’m pretty confident most folks will feel the same way once they dive in.
4E completely reinvigorated our group. It’s weird, but in creating a new edition, they found the magic that made Dungeons & Dragons what it always was. They’ve taken shovels and dug out the core of what makes the game tick and built a system that focuses on THAT. This feels like 1st edition all over again. It has everyone excited. No one skips or misses games. And when we have to cancel, it becomes a big production of attempting to reschedule before canceling. Seven people in our group and every one of us, no matter how resistant, no matter how angry about a new edition we might have been, have discovered a brand new passion for the game. There’s a lot of negativity out there right now, a lot of anger over this rule change or that rule change or the thought of all those now nigh useless books. But come June that’s going to change. People are going to see first hand how those changes work together to make a superior experience. The game is more fun and less work. And I, for one, am never going back. I am a 4E player. And I can’t wait until you guys are too.
Check in tomorrow for part 2, detailing what it’s like to run a 4E game (the new challenges and pleasures), and Saturday for part 3 going into the Monsters.
Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Massawyrm

"I want to cast Magic Missile"<p>
"Why are you casting Magic Missile? There's nothing to attack here."<p>
"I'm-I'm-I'm attacking the darkness!"<p>
...and yes, I had that memorized off the top of my head.

you've been my favorite non-Vern reviewer on the site for quite some time, and now i finally understand why. This is pretty much the awesomest article that's been on here in months. Thanks for a great read.<P>anyone who wants to talk shit on D&D... i pity you for many reasons.

When I was a teenager in the 80s and we needed it. Now? We don't need it, any more than we need Republicans or racists. And Tunnels & Trolls was a much cooler game anyway. Simple and fun and completely unpretentious.

It's something I've only done a few times in my life, but the games were always awesome. I just wish I knew more people that were into that type rpg playing. My wife is of the mindset that those days are past and it's all about the online stuff now, but I think there will always be a place for getting together with your friends for some good old fashioned rpg playing.

..does it just sound unnatural that you are including wives into this discussion? I mean, you guys are actually playing fucking role-playing games with your wives for Christ's sake! My wife is a real ball buster sometimes, but when she does nag me, it is because I am doing something like, I don't know, playing video games or reading comics or other non-productive shit. She doesn’t join in! Shouldn't your wives be working or exercising, or taking care of the baby, or shopping at Victoria's Secret or I don't know, trying to fuck your brains out? Jesus H. Christ on a pop-cycle stick! L.O.S.E.R.S.!

I got my twelve sided die and I'm ready to roll with a wizard and my goblin crew.
My friends are coming over to my mom's basement bringing Funyuns and the Mountain Dew.
I got a big broad sword made outta cardboard and that stereos a pumpin zeppelin. (dazed and confused)
It's that time of the night, we turn on the black light, let the dungeons and the dragons begin!
It's D and D!!
Fighting with the legends of yore.
It's D and D!!
Never kissed a lady before. Nope, I said it, WOOO!
C'mon you gonna bring the thunder? I'll bring the fuckin thunder, c'mon bring the thunder, c'mon lets go! Aww that's nice.
Why don't you bring some thunder mother fucker. Bring some thunder, alright!
Now the lord of the rings the dark crystal and things, we use these as a reference tool.
And when we put on our cloaks and tell warlock jokes, we're the coolest kids in the school!
No we're not. I know.
Now Teich's a real bastard, but a fair dungeon master, he's got hitpoints and charisma to lend.
And I rehearse in my room or what I call the dragon's tomb when I'm not out with my girlfriend!
It's D and D!
Wait wait wait, Teich, c'mon. I'm sorry. Woah hey wait, I'm sorry. Hold on gimme one second. What?
Dude come on, seriously. What?!
You've got a fuckin...girlfriend? Dungeon master!
That's kind of a dick thing to say.
It's D and D!!
Summoning the demons of hell.
It's D and D!!
When our shift ends at the taco bell. Gordita! Chalupa!
Well my medieval brother, there's room here for another, would you care to take a roll of the die?
You guys make me weep, you think that you can keep up with a warrior as mighty as I?
See you're in mortal danger, I'm a first class ranger who's half gargoyle and half elf.
And if that doesn't scare ya maybe I should beware ya what lurks within my gaming shelf. Next to my junior high annual lies my monster manual, and my customized dungeon master screen.
I've got treasures and traps on my graph paper maps, next to my three inch solid pewter figurines.
So if you think you got the balls, bring on your dungeon master calls, I'll be protected by my robe of destruction.
And I will leave you both in tears cause I'm the dungeon master here and you two are in need of some instruction.
It's D and D!!
Warriors who terrify.
It's D and D!!!!!!!

And to the married man who admits to reading comic books? That's just as nerdy as Dungeons and Dragons. You're just as big of a pathetic nerd as this 12 sided dice wielding reviewer. Comic book readers aren't any less greasy than goblin warrior roleplayers.

Hold on, is this a bunch of Aint-It-Cool-News talkbackers bagging on D&D players for being nerdy?!
LOL. News flash. To the rest of the world, pretty much anyone on this site is a nerd.
Funny. Guess you can take solice in the fact that you're not as nerdy as those other people who are the REAL nerds...

Fat & Curious: Yes, roleplayers are more Greasy....
Chirth: I'm as single as your right hand...
krosshair & tonagan: You are right; but there are several levels of 'nerd.' Roleplaying > Comic Book Collecting.

C'mon people, it's all in good fun! We all know who/what we are as soon as we hit the 'enter' key on our keyboards. I would argue that Movies are more acceptable than comics and comics more so than RPG, but who really deems what acceptable anyway? All I can say is that I have smelled more B.O. at a RPG table then in any movie house or comic store.

From jinx.com. Fly your freak flag high.
<p>
Too lazy to copy and paste TinyURL links? Rather just click 'em? Get the Greasemonkey extension for Firefox and use the new AICN TinyURL Activator Script. Here it is on userscripts.org: http://tinyurl.com/2wz4fx

I mean seriously. I mean respect to those who enjoy this sort of stuff, fair play to you all but I grew out of D & D when I realised that fucking women was a much better pastime. And better for your lower back.

...I'm telling you, I can't wait to read this board for the next few days. I can not wait. D&D vs. Comic Books vs. Videogames in a battle royale with highly qualified participants from all corners? High Comedy Potential.

ive just lost any respect for massawyrn i had. all past and future credibility for his reviews and opinions are now shot. it went down a lot after he paid to see Bratz and review it even though no one asked him to. and now hes playing dungeons and dragons, a grown man.

As a grown man, being unable to play any games such as Monopoly or D&D or Settlers of Catan ... or any videogames because, you know, those are for kids too ... or going to see movies that aren't rated R or NC-17 ... can't read comic books or graphic novels, oh and Sci-Fi and Fantasy books are definitely out too ...<p>
40ozToFreedom is the reason Sebastian was needed to save us from the Nothing. "They looked like such strong hands"

4E does look to rock. There seems to be a resurgence in "pen and paper" and board gaming these days.
I embraced my inner geek long ago and I'm lucky enough to have found a bunch of really good people to "geek out" with as well.
Notice, I didn't say "nerd out"... there is a huge difference! Hint: 1 group baths, has a full well rounded life and goes outside and the other... well, not so much.
And hell yeah, my wife geeks out, I feel sorry for all those people who have to hide there action from their wives... so sad. :P
And just so you know there are some very hot "geeky girls" these days, take note. ;)

I hear you about the drive into Baltimore. I was making it myself for a while there. Talk about "venturing into the perilous unknown." Star Frontiers was awesome when I was a kid, so was Tunnels and Trolls. Never tried D & D. Sounds like I'm denying illegal substances.

I used to work at the Social Security building down time. Thankfully managed to get out of there. Nothing like waiting for the metro and seeing the cops shoot someone in front of the train.And after working in the city "I know that's right" became the most loathed phrase Ive ever heard.

My friends and I still play D&D from time to time, but we've mostly switched to Warhammer Roleplay.<p>In D&D, after a certain point, your character practically becomes a god. He can't be killed, and he can kill anything in a few rounds. Generally, the battles stop being fun. Our group was always more about roleplaying anyway, but when you think about it, the rules didn't make that much sense. (We started with v2 rules, then moved to 3 and 3.5.)<p>Warhammer Roleplay just makes more sense to me. I'm not crazy about the setting, but the rules are better. They make more sense. Someone just starting out can get a lucky shot and kill a character that has been around forever. It makes you actually think about tactics instead of just relying on your massive amount of hit points to save you.<p>For the record, I would just like to state that I do have a girlfriend, and that I do have sex with her often. The last two paragraphs would seem to indicate otherwise, but I swear to Pelor it's true.

We've got you in this fuckin' movie to exterminate all the lunatics all at
once with a filtering system of God. We're the psycho-semantic police,
you can't even see us. How in the fuck can you do anything about it?
We're pure intelligence, your not. Your biological product of a
cosmological universe. Your molecular matter, I constructed you, fuck you.
I made you up, you didn't make me up, you got it backwards. You know who
you are? Your fuckin' semantic blockage, that's what made you up. You're
a fuckin' programmer named Christine Gontara.
You fucked up.
She sucked my cock, fell in love, and she was locked in. She's gonna get her second
chance to suck my cock again. If she turns me down, she's gonna go
straight to hell, she won't pass go, she'll never fuckin' win.
She's the cunt that thought she was God, but that's OK, I don't give a shit.
As long as she sucks me off when I tell her. 'Cause she's my zombie.
I captured that mother fucker, and she's my cassette. I want that cock
sucker to send me at least fifty-thousand fuckin' dollars.
If she can't do it I'll try ten. If she can't do that, I'll try five, but that's it.
If you got a dowry of five thousand dollars, come out here and suck me
off, do what I tell you from now on, then you can join me for eternal tim

It's not like Massa confessed to playing Starfleet Battles. I had a roomate back in college who unwittingly agreed to play this so-called game with a friend,I went out at around 6 p.m. when they were setting the game up and filling out the stats for their ships or something. When I returned, sometime around 1 a.m. they had just finished the stats, and were playing the first round. My roomate looked at me with an expression of pure misery, and proceeded to roll the 50 dice(no exxageration there) he was holding. Then he went back to recording it on his stat sheet. Filling out paperwork on your free time=not fun.

but dammit I'm a curious kind of fella so will endevour to do so at the earliest opportunity. And I want to make it clear I'm not dissing D & D and its players 'cos God knows I'm a major nerd but have to draw the line at something.

[Raleigh:] You went for line drawings and you fucked up you fuckin' idiot.
You brain-washed yourself you mother fuckin' stupid cock suckers, because
you never studied your Holy Homework. That's two capital H's there, all
the rest are lower case in any fuckin' case. Supreme Court, you are not
the fucking Supreme Court of anything, except Hell! For the next ten
thousand years you will shovel your shit and eat it, because your on
repeat mother fucker. It just started backwards and you can't do a
fuckin' thing about it. The public are gonna take back every fuckin'
thing that you took away from them you mother fucker.
[Security Guard:] Raleigh.
[Raleigh:] Yes.
[Guard:] This is the deal.
[Raleigh:] Yes, what is the deal?
[Guard:] You either cool it down right now...
[Raleigh:] Or your gonna fuckin die!
[Guard:] ...your outta here.
[Raleigh:] Oh, your gonna put me out? Well I ain't leavin' mother
fucker. Now what are you gonna do, what are you gonna do to this little kid? Eh?
[Guard:] Your gonna go to the psyche ward.
[Raleigh:] Well good, that's where I wanna go.
[Guard:] Yea, your gonna be right there. So you better cool it down. You better cool it down right now, I don't want to hear anything else out of this room or you are gonna go to the psyche ward. This is your last opportunity.
[Raleigh:] Yea, OK, get it. Let's go.
[Guard:] Shut your fuckin' mouth.
[Raleigh:] all right .
[Guard:] And don't make anymore waves in the house. Otherwise you'r going to the psyche ward.
[Raleigh:] Well, thats exactly what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go to the psyke ward and so I'm gonna shoot my fuckin' mouth off, so get out of here. Your cutting into my commercial.
[Guard:] You understand?
[Raleigh:] I'm making a fuckin' commercial, I'm a businessman! Get out of here! Your trying to get in on this fuckin' thing, you ain't no star asshole, your just a fuckin' errand boy.
[Guard:] Your the craziest son of a bitch I ever...
[Raleigh:] Exactly...I'm an American!
[Guard:] This is the last warning Raleigh.
[Raleigh:] Good, Shut Up!
[background laughter]
[Guard:] Anymore out of you and your going to the psyche ward.
[Raleigh:] See, you lie. You don't eat your feedback.
[Guard:] You need to understand that, as long as you understand that, that's the rules Raleigh.
[Raleigh:]Whoever comes in this fuckin' room, I'm gonna fuckin' kill em! That's what I gonna do.
[Guard:] Oh are ya? I'm in your room Raleigh.
[Raleigh:] Well you've come in against...this is my room.
[Guard:] I'm in your room, I'm in you room, I'm in your room.
[Raleigh:] Back out, back out, back out. Words don't bother me man, actions do.
[Guard:] Let's do it, go for it dude.
[Raleigh:] Well if you come at me your gonna fuckin' die!
[Guard:] Go for it.
[Raleigh:] I ain't going for nothing, you fuckin' reach for me and I'm gonna take your arm off.
[Guard:] Come on. Come on! [Raleigh:] I ain't comin, you come.
[Guard:] Cool it Raleigh. You understand that? You got it? Either you cool it or your out of here, that's the only choice you have.
[Raleigh:] Try it.
[Guard:] Your gone dude.
[Raleigh:] Who's gonna enforce it? Call the cops mutherfucker! Call the cops.
[Guard:] You got witnesses right now?
[Raleigh:] No witnesses, call the fucking cops! I'll call the fuckin' cops on you, you cocksucker, right now.
[Guard:] Good.
[Raleigh:] 911 - Just like that, and you will never get out of this. [Guard:] Good. Come on.
[Raleigh:] I would like an emergency call please, there's a psychopathic
trying to kill me in my fuckin' room, now get them cops over here to
1-2-3-O-9 Ventura Street please. He is standing in my door, I told him to
get out of here, and he tells me he's gonna put me in the psycho-tank, for
making my production here. Which is a science fiction magazine! And he's
trying to scare me 'cause he thinks he's big, but he's just a big pile of
shit! 'Cause I'll splatter him all over the fuckin' wall. I hope you
record all that. That's a pre-programming for the police department! And
send 'em over here, 'cause I'm about to kill him in two seconds. Now get
'em over here as fast as you can please. I hope your recording this.

You guys don't know what love is.
You don't know what love is.
Until you've learned the meaning of the blues.
Until you had a love you had to lose.
You don't know what love is.
Let's see. What's happening? The sacks are filling up again here yeah.
Well we can stop that thing ya know any fuckin' time we want, let's do it.

I don't think it gets any worse than that. If you LARP you might as well cut your dick off and use it as a sword, because you wont use it otherwise. I have no problem with D&D, I never played it but played other types of paper/pencil RPG's and Magic, but I must confess I stopped that once I was able to drive

I recall us discussing this briefly in another talkback. And as for roleplaying, Gamerz was a pretty amusing movie. And who can forget the afterschool special against the evil of rpgs that was Mazes and Monsters.

Dude, reference the earlier part of this talkback for the brief discussion on LARP. Although I didn't mention it by its acronym, I wanted to show the sheer geekiness that RPG/LARP is. Type "Lighting Bolt!!!" into YouTube and watch this pathetic movie. I hope it doesn’t offend you...er...I mean your "Friend's Cousin."

My friends and I would spend hours on end playing 2nd Edition AD&D. Hours and hours on end. We tried to get together once a month when 3rd edition came out but could never find the time. But what a great game it is. I just can't find the place and time to do it anymore. I guess a wife, house, kids and a real job will do that. But I still have a strong urge to get my geek on. Alas....

But I'm glad 4 is coming; I looked at a couple of the 3.5 books, and I couldn't believe how nitpicky some of the rules were. Of course, by the time Bizarro ChrTh is old enough to play they'll probably be on version 5, but hopefully that won't be a return to the "slide-rule and a Cray" requirements of 3.5.

as for my username, I made it up about 14 years ago and it just kinda stuck. As for the video, I'm blocked at work from youtube. But I'll check it out when I get home. If i actually did LARP I don't think i would have gotten married because I'd still be afraid of 'she-creatures'

AHMADABAD, India — A newborn baby girl fell through the toilet in a moving train and onto the tracks moments after her mother prematurely gave birth, surviving nearly two hours before being found, relatives said Thursday.
The child's mother, who uses the single name Bhuri, was traveling with relatives on an overnight train when she went to the bathroom shortly before midnight Tuesday and unexpectedly gave birth to a baby girl, said Arjun Kumar, her brother-in-law.
"Later, she fell unconscious and the baby fell through the toilet," he continued. "Two stations later, we knocked at the door."
Bhuri opened the door, soaked in blood.
"When we asked her about what happened, she said the baby had fallen through onto the tracks," Kumar said.
Toilets on Indian trains usually have holes that open directly onto the tracks, and there were no indications Thursday that authorities doubted Bhuri's story or planned to investigate the incident.
Kumar said that after finding Bhuri, relatives pulled the train's emergency brake and told railway officials what had happened. A search was quickly organized, and guards at one of the stations the train had passed soon found the baby.
"She was on the rail track for almost 1 1/2 to two hours," said Dr. Gautam Jain, a pediatrician at Rajasthan Hospital in Ahmadabad, in the western state of Gujarat, where the baby and mother were taken.
The child, who has not yet been named, was eight to 10 weeks premature and weighed only 3.22 pounds, Jain said. She had a low heart rate and body temperature.
"We do not expect such children to survive," Jain said.

that's a crazy story. Did you see last year when those people tried to kill their kid by tying it inside a trashbag to a log and throwing it out in the river. And then people found the bag and the kid was still alive?

OT this day, I call a "regular die" a "six-sided die." I was at a party and someone wanted to play a drinking game or whatever. I asked if they had six-sided dice. A friend caught me and asked, "What do you mean? As apposed to what other kind of dice?" I was outed as a dork. Very funny.

I could be wrong, but as I read your review I get the impression you're often using the word "complicated" when I think you intend to mean "complex". I'm not trying to be nitpicky. I just want to be clear on your meaning. The two words have very distinct connotations.

As I mentioned in a talkback a few weeks ago regarding Darkon, we attended a screening at Maryland Institute of Art and all the LARPers from the movie were there. Perhaps not all people who do this are deluded, unwashed geeks without a social context, but tell that to the guy wearing the short kilt next to me. Pity the staff that had to hose down the theater afterwards.

The main "underdog" LARPer(you will know who I mean when you watch the movie) invites the entire LARPing cast and the entire audience over to his house for a big impromptu barbecue. He references that this will come as a surprise to his wife(who was sitting mercifully out of viewing sight. During the film, it keeps being made apparent this guy puts the LARPing above his family much to his wife's constant disdain. Seeing him actually back this behavior up in person was too much.

invites everyone over at the end of the screening. Im sure the neighbors were thrilled by that. Middle of May and then you smell funions, sweat and grilling vienna sausages..and then the screaming starts.

You justify my ealier comments by your sentiments. I was simply trying to express that if you are married to a respectable women who actully likes to dress nicely and shop for purses, then you will have to go 'closeted' with your geekiness. Sexy women who are worth a damn don't put up with comics, video games, RPGs and especially LARPs. Now, geeks, go fuck your wives or the meat-head bouncer that lives up the street will do it for you.

Massawyrm, you are one of my favorites to read on here but this whole thing reeks. It smells like WotC has giving AICN a nice chunk of change and some free swag for a nice review. It reminds me of Harry's review for Cloverfield where JJ Abrams must've given that fat bastard a sweet hand job in exchange for a sweet review. What was wrong with 3.5? I don't think people get table-top RPGs at all. Or maybe i've been playing them wrong all my life. The rules are guidlines people. Guidelines. They are not to be enforced at the cost of fun. Read the DMs guide, it says it there many times that rules are optional. All rules. D & D and most other RPGs are what you make of it so if you don't have fun or you think it is too stuffy and rules heavy then it is your own fault. I've been playing 3.5 for a few years now with a group that loves it and gets upset when a session is cancelled and it is not because 3.5 is some genius game, it is because we have a fuck-load of fun playing it. If you are a rules obsessed sissy then you wont have fun with any RPG and should stick to video games. If you can't cast a spell because the rules don't apply but the logic of your campaign does and the players don't see a problem then cast your spell. Is the book going to warn some rules police? Is the game going to crash? Ever heard of cheat codes in video games? Well the DM and players in an table-top RPG are the cheat codes and you can manipulate the game in any way so that YOU can have as much fun as YOU want. This review reminded me of many players who would sit in our sessions and complain that we didn't follow the rules of encumberance. If the rule interrupts the fun then fuck encumberance and fuck the rule. Your whole whole statement about characters sitting around doing nothing because they are out of spells or what not is a sign to me that your DM sucks and can't properly control the game and keep all players interested and with something to do. The group I played with now was confused at first because I stressed that they did not have to build a party. One guy did not have to feel forced to make the cleric just because we needed a cleric. I said for them to make the characters that they want to play and i'll take care of the rest. I'll figure out how to give them things to accomplish. That IS the job of the DM. That is the point of NPCs. That is part of what D & D is about, creating a world for characters to exist in that feels natural. I think WotC created 4E just to make it easier for the dummies and because they realized 3.5 had run its course and all the rich kids that could actually afford the billions of books already bought them so it was time to give them something new to waste money on. WotC has to create a new verion of D & D every so often because they don't know who to sell it to any more so their only option is to keep siphoning money out of the diehards who have loved D & D for decades now. They don't create anything fresh or innovative because there is no need to. It is like EA actually putting some effort into Madden; why should they bother? They know the diehards will keep coming back for more without question or complaint.

And she demands that we play version 3.0. She doesn't like 3.5. I was initially hesitant. I'm a geek, true. But not one of THOSE geeks...or so I thought. I'm really digging D&D though. She's dungeon master and she comes up with pretty clever quests and does funny voices (7 years of vocal training helps). I only started because I forced her to watch all of Todd Solondz's movies with me, but now, I think I'll keep playing.

so my wife doesn't get scared off. I understand how she feels, because I sure as hell don't give a damn about Sex and the City. She can talk about that with her friends, I can talk Dark Tower with mine

I played D&D for about a year with some friends in a dingy basement back in high school. The Dungeon Master was some dude who was like 10 years older than us, living with his parents. He got mad when we made jokes, used a horrible british accent when he spoke in character and wore a single weightlifting glove. That experience turned me off of dungeons and dragons forever. As much as people love it and say this version is better, I have no desire to roll a 20 sided die again in my life. But if other people want to enjoy it, more power to them, I wont make fun of them for playing, I just hope they dont have a middle aged tyrant telling them their destiny over a bag of stale cheetos and misery.

tracking on that 'Sex in (and?) the City' shit. But you know what I mean? That type of girl may hate our inner-geek, but she shaves her legs and wears thong underwear. C'mon man! Did you see the Star Wars chick in the American Idol try-outs? That is what I picture whenever I read about playing D&D with the wife. Jesus.

going to clubs and buying purses and shoes.AND she likes pen and paper RPG`s,just like some other cool ladies I know.But I live in Germany and we have no "Geek" shit going on here,RPG`s are respected like the most other Hobbies.

That's cool but I could never play in front of my wife. I would be so embarassed. Mostly because I am such a dick when I play. And I feel like a total dork...which I am. I remember when me and my friends tried to get back into playing when 3rd edition came out. We were playing in my buddies dining room and one of the housemates came strolling in. I was mortified. He was like "Hey what're you guys going?" Thinking we were playing cards or something like that. It was humiliating b/c my friends and I don't "look" like dorks. And we tried so hard to keep it secret. But I was married and we had full time jobs and all. So we never found the time to keep it going.

I agree it's possible to find hot geeks, Im sure. In my case my wife has come over to the movie geek side, but anything that looks like it even relates to the more obsessive stuff and she is OUT and usually the leader of the pack pointing the nerd finger at me(in a loving way of course.) The dude in the Darkon movie looked like he had a wife that was trying to support him and encourage him in his goals, but it must be hard when his goal was to be the leader of a country that doesnt even exist, whose governing will be decided by a battle with foam swords in a cow field somewhere.

I also got my wife into watching geek movies. That's all I can ask of her. SHe knows my geeky past and geek tendencies but would never go down the more "obsessive and dedicated" path. And I don't think I would want that. Geek Husband + Geek Wife = Fatness, Weird Smells, and Lots of Cats. LOL!

at least the ones at the Darkon screening, is that they seemed like genuinely nasty, elitist people while at the same time being social misfits. Also, Im not labeling them misfits because they do the LARPing. If you want to dress up like a viking and spend your weekends using a giant duct-taped styrofoam mallet to smash a grown man dressed as a wood nymph in the nards, go ahead. But don't pretend to be so high above and set apart from everyone else because you do.

This is some funny shit today. I already sent my friends an e-mail about 4th Edition to try and stir their inner geek souls. Pathetic. Just thinking of some of the dumb things my friends would do while we played keeps me laughing. Just terrible ideas that would get themselves killed. Great fun.

One of my favorite scenes was one of the nerdiest kids saying something along the lines of the following: "I am not in a relationship in the real world. In the world of Darkon, I am in the process of pursuing a relationship of sorts. There is another individual whom I have gone on many adventures with. I have died for her many times. I can't say for sure, but I am positive that after enough time, she will consent to our pairing."

So, you can still actually go into a store and buy DUNGEONS & DRAGONS? Really? I never played, so I apologize for not knowning, but does it come in a box like a board-game? Massa, are you talking about a video-game? Or an actual board-game?

Kidding. This is the first positive thing I've heard from a player about 4E, but it's also the first thing I've read from someone who has actually played the game. It gives me, an in-the-closet D&D player, something to look forward to after all.

Dude your life must suck. My wife is super hot, playes games and is totally cool. And, get ready for this shit, I know other chics in the gaming industry who are super hot and geek out as well.
Man, it must suck being with some tight ass, super lame, wanna be hot wife... or even worse no chic at all. You must really suffer... oh well... so sad. :)

You will have to excuse me if those arent the actual words, but if they arent they are close. I saw the movie back in the summer of 2006 at the Maryland Film Festival and I wasnt interested enough to see it twice. Once though, is a sadly illuminating experience.

bloodninja: Baby, I been havin a tough night so treat me nice aight?
BritneySpears14: Aight.
bloodninja: Slip out of those pants baby, yeah.
BritneySpears14: I slip out of my pants, just for you, bloodninja.
bloodninja: Oh yeah, aight. Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat.
BritneySpears14: Oh, I like to play dress up.
bloodninja: Me too baby.
BritneySpears14: I kiss you softly on your chest.
bloodninja: I cast Lvl. 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman.
BritneySpears14: Hey...
bloodninja: I meditate to regain my mana, before casting Lvl. 8 Cock of the Infinite.
BritneySpears14: Funny I still don't see it.
bloodninja: I spend my mana reserves to cast Mighty F*ck of the Beyondness.
BritneySpears14: You are the worst cyber partner ever. This is ridiculous.
bloodninja: Don't f*ck with me bitch, I'm the mightiest sorcerer of the lands.
bloodninja: I steal yo soul and cast Lightning Lvl. 1,000,000 Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a Lvl. 2 Druid.
BritneySpears14: Don't ever message me again you piece of ****.
bloodninja: Robots are trying to drill my brain but my lightning shield inflicts DOA attack, leaving the robots as flaming piles of metal.
bloodninja: King Arthur congratulates me for destroying Dr. Robotnik's evil army of Robot Socialist Republics. The cold war ends. Reagan steals my accomplishments and makes like it was cause of him.
bloodninja: You still there baby? I think it's getting hard now.
bloodninja: Baby?

Dungeon magazine and Dragon magazine were awesome. They had cool supplements for the game as well as fiction and great art. The best fantasy/sci-fi artists in the world were featured there and in a tangible, affordable format. In the later years, the quality of the content improved so much that it became a competitor against the expensive published supplement books...so WOTC killed the contract and ruined two great publications.<p>
So, thanks for that WOTC...<p>
Now, they laughingly try to have similar content online, but it comes out slower and more disorganized than they print issues...and soon they are going to make people pay for online content...<p>
So, screw that. I hope the game is good, but something tells me the days of D&D are almost over...

Yea, I think that you are referring to regular RPG game playing. LARPing is Live Action Role Playing which specifically means showing up in character with weapons(fake) and staging fantasy quests and massive battles in character. Im talking one guy role playing as king actually bossing around other players whose apparent fantasy it is to let the manager of the taco bell, now in fantasy guise, order them around. "Now Grok, the half-orc, clean out the sour cream gun with a spoon."

you are right about those "genuinely nasty, elitist people." I think that most levels of Geekdom have them though. You can find them at Comic Book shops, debating the pros & cons of Tony Stark and his 'Registration' or at any kind of 'Con.' The worst are the paint-ballers. Dude, they think that they are the shit, hiding behind their blow-up obstacles, firing with both fingers and laughing at you because you are there with a bunch of guys from work. Very lame, very elitist.

You are right. I guess in this instance I was so aware of the diff perspective makes. Most of us who were there, were film geeks wanting to see documentary about goofy people and probably felt superior to and sad for the LARPers. It was odd to realize they were sitting there feeling sad we arent creative enough or brave enough or who knows, "special" enough to have discovered the world of larping.

Im sure they can just create new characters, and give past references. Again, it would be wierd to see a sequel. While we are at remaking the entire 1980s,can I please get a Dreamscape 2 and Cat's Eye:Revenge of the Wall Troll?

lets just have a movie of all the second-tier horror movie villains. Wall troll, Snakeman from dreamscape, the cellar dwellar, raw head rex and that creepy ass ventriliquist dummy from Making Contact. And the trollocs in the Pit. If you recognize that one, God help you.

I still read the D&D Novels (Frgotten Realms) to quell the geek inside me. SO that's not so bad. At least I have that. I won't buy a video game b/c I know I would get a divorce from playing it too much.

Some friends I met at a goth club got me into it. Was called Amtgard, there wasn't too much of the ubergeekness on display at the events I went to. The highlights of these things were the big events that the various groups got together at a few times a year. There wasn't too much character stuff going on, just names and costumes, some more elaborate then others. Did mock combat stuff in the day, and then partied all night. Never drank mead before I attended one of these things, was pretty good stuff. The whole thing was pretty fun as long as you don't take it too seriously.

Boy, I skipped 3rd Ed altogether. Just plain skipped. I had my 2nd Ed on CD Rom, and I was designing an original system of play, and just didn't have the time to get into a new D&D. This has me totally excited. What's with this online thing? Do I need actual hardcopy? Now that the chips are on the table, if you've ever wondered why my name is Archive, check out Restoration at www.8sidedinteractive.com. One day, all will tremble the sound of that name. For now, I bide my time...

...but this thread is just so annoying...<p>
First off, calling someone a geek or a nerd is mainly a sign that you're stuck in the '80s. That stigma is pretty much gone... in fact, geek is used as much as a self-descriptor as anything else.<p>
I don't play D&D, haven't in a decade or two. Neither does my girlfriend. She and I would be willing, though; she's the same sort of hot geek girlfriend that many of you don't seem to believe exists (sad for you).<p>
Also: I'm pretty sure 95% of the people who have played D&D have never, ever, dressed up as a wizard or warrior.<p>
Also: Playing a role-playing game around the kitchen table is a far more social event than playing something like World of Warcraft would ever be. Why not characterize WOW players as antisocial rejects?<p>
Thanks for the review, Massi. I'm sure I will never actually buy the books, unless the online stuff they come out with is really cool. But it's good to know they're taking the game in the right direction.

has the cash to bribe reviewers is a mental child. The people who write this stuff are lucky to get paid. Please.
And likewise, if you think anyone would find it worthwhile to compromise their journalistic integrity for a book - one that isn't finished, and won't be that expensive when it is... well, you might be in need of remedial education too.
Massawyrm is ridiculously excited, and based on this review, I'm all in.

Yes. Yes it is. And it's exactly the right forum for it. Between this, Iron Man, Hellboy 2, Dark Night, and many more, 2008 is a good year for imagination and flights of fancy in the media. Dude. Dude, oh dude. I have been reduced to monosylables, and I have work to do today! And it's half a year before I get my hands on this! This will be my present to myself, to celebrate the completion of a gaming project I'm working on now. Extra incentive. Dude. This sounds soooooo good.

Although I have done a few rounds of Shadowrun and Lord of the Rings with some friends. Never got into it too much, but it was interesting. I like telling stories and thinking up characters to fill them, so it was a nice creative outlet.

and participated in one round of the Star Wars rpg as well, forgot about that one. That one went downhill fast when the gm played on everyone's hatred of Jar Jar to make the people guarding a base all be hired Gungans.

Seriously, its fucking awesome. So is the Star Wars Miniatures game. The whole role playing thing is wack. Miniatures gaming, on the other hand, is the ne plus ultra of geekery in gaming. Similar to Chess or Risk, but a million times cooler.

I'm not sure if you're aware but there are columns on this very site that cover comic books and video games. While yes movies are based off of things from both mediums (rather frequently these days) neither of these has a thing to do with movies, so yes I would say the site is about movies, and geek culture in general (just mostly about movies) So the article is relevant.

makes the baby jeebus cry. Seriously, I haven't seen more instances of the pot calling the kettle black since . . . I dunno, but it's been a long time. I agree, there is something inherently uber-geeky about sitting around a table and rolling dice. But no more geeky than debating comics or movies. Man, can't we all just get along? Just be proud to be a geek and live and let live. Besides, you ever play D&D . . .on weed?

I've yet to see anything that would make me want to use it for my game. I don't care about combat - I can go several sessions between actual fights in my game ... what I care about is telling stories, building worlds. What does this version do to help me build my own world, what value does it add to my intellectual property? Even if it never leaves our homes, after 30+ years, there are now a lot of Tolkien-depth worlds now sitting in binders on shelves across the land.

too if I wouldn't want to shoot myself after hours of looking at pixelated colors on a screen and clicking a mouse button over and over again by myself in my room wearing my underwear and eating hotdogs. But yeah, you're right, at least I wouldn't have to talk to anyone else or roll fucking dice.

And I mean that with love.<p>It's funny to read all the snide, cooler-than-thou posts here along the lines of, "you guys are all such nerds and losers for liking D&D!"<p>Message to everyone posting that stuff--you're posting to a comment board on Ain't It Cool News, a geek site, on which you have registered and taken a screen name.<p>YOU ARE A GEEK AND A NERD.<p>Accept it and be proud! This is a place to do so without shame. There's nothing wrong at all with enjoying this nerdy kind of stuff. I do. What's pathetic is a nerd trying to be the uptight high-school bully in a geek-approved place like this.<p>Save us your personal issues, go play your game or watch your movie of choice, and enjoy it!

Sorry, but Oblivion cannot hold a candle to a well designed, well-run tabletop game. Nor can any coder of a MMORPG can keep up with the epic scope a good DM's imagination. There is still magic in pencil and paper where the fate of whole kingdoms can turn on how a die falls.

What a great-sounding description of the new version. For all who are playing nowadays, I hope it's that fun.<p>I can't help it, I still like the old-school stuff. For me, the first printing of Unearthed Arcana is too modern. The old system is clunky, but a big part of what kept me from moving on back then is the aesthetics of the books. The photo-realistic, Photoshopped, bland imagery and illustrations that pervade all modern books leave me cold. I know that has nothing to do with the game play itself, but for me it's part of the whole experience.<p>Give me the Dave Trampier ink illustrations from the original books anyday. That stuff was brilliant, evocative of old myths and storybooks, and so artistic.<p>But to all those on the new system: excelsior and play on!

I may be a weird freak for this, but does anybody else just love the heck out of the books(to the point of purchasing them), the artwork, the lore and the campaign settings, but has never actually played a D&D game outside the computer versions? That's me. Which was why I was excited when I found out the Eladrin (they're just like elves but more...elfy)are now a core playable race. I might have to sit down with a group of my greasiest, most socially inept friends and play this damn game some time after 4E comes out. I'm serious.

The thing I don't like about this game is that the whole pitch to the fans is "Tabletop Gaming without the table"... they want to take the intimate social experience of RPG playing and put it online...which frankly sucks. MMORPGs are chatrooms with battles in them...they mostly suck and don't have any real story to them. Most video games are so focused on the graphics, blood spatter and realistic playable geometry that they don't give us any story worth playing.<p>
The whole point of roleplaying is the social interaction. To unplug from the digital world and play games with people, have fun (and occasionally haggle over the rules), but do it in the presence of real people.
As to "gamer funk" and the smell of cheetos... a bath/deoderant requirement was always in effect in any gaming group I used to be in, which were also suprisingly co-ed.<p>
I wonder though, how many people bring laptops to gaming sessions these days?

3.5 encouraged role playing I knew you were full of shit and quit reading.
3rd edition and 3.5 encourage munchkin min-maxing and skill/feat combos. It's a system for 12 year olds.
Real role playing never needs new rules because there are no rules.
I have hated every D20 game I played and I bet I will hate this one too.

blahblahI liked D&D once in the 80's but now I don't so anybody who likes it reminds me of that painful part of my adolescence so I feel the need to dismiss them and D&D for all eternity blahblahblah...and the karmic wheel of overcompensation continues.

But the comic book and videogame articles are part of their own section of AICN and are recurring columns. I didn't know they were starting a table top section of Aint It Cool. Also comic books and videogames are being turned into major tentpole movies with increased frequency, the three entertainment mediums really blend into one another easily. I don't see table top really fitting in there. I mean if you wanna site those things as precedent I suppose I can see that but it still seems a bit out of the blue. I've never seen table top gaming come up in any talkback previously, at least not to any grand extent.

Seriously, when was the last time ANYONE playing this game went into a DUNGEON? About as many times as the players' characters encounter a *dragon* during their campaign. The name is longstanding false advertisement, folks. It should be retitled "Bushes and Orcs, Fourth Edition".

I think it's important to remember that it's mainly gamers who are in their 30's to 60's who make up the largest portion of Wizards D&D market. It's not the LARPING weirdos on Youtube, it's the beer and pretzels, industrial music loving Moms & Dads of GenX ;) Speaking of which for you D&D geeks out there look for a terrain company called "WorldWorksGames" they make amazing shit! Totally transformed our games!

I only played a few times in high school, but I remember reading the Monster Manual through on multiple occasions and being fascinated by the diverse bestiary. That game has everything, from witches, trolls and the undead to frog people, seal people and humanoid spiders called 'Ettercaps'. Some of the monsters in that manual would make great horror movie characters. Catoblepas. Ettercap. Githzerai. Selkie. Galeb Duhr.

A bunch of internet geeks talking down DnD!?! seriously? It has come down to that? We can't even stay united for that? The ONLY reason people made fun of D&D in the past, was the disconnection from Reality... now people who spend 90% of their time on the internet are making fun of something that actually involves human interaction? Crazy.

Few years back, sunny summer weekend afternoon... my buddy and I are bored so we go to the park down the street. Being dedicated stoners, we naturally haul along the 3 foot blown glass bong and a heaping handful of the sticky icky, find a secluded spot near the river's edge, and proceed to chief in epic fashion.<p> However, on the way down the path to the river, we notice a little leather pouch sitting in plain view in a conspicuous spot in the middle of the trail. Upon examination, it turned out to be full of some kind of weird ceramic coins with unintelligible runes on them. So I picked it up and we went on our merry way to get high by the river. <p> So, roughly 50 bonghits later, we stagger back out onto the path and sort of stumble around the woods for a bit. Then, as we're walking, I hear something in the bushes and turn to see-- I shit you not-- a guy dressed exactly like Sub Zero from Mortal Kombat (the green version, though... which I guess makes him, what, Reptile?) disappear into the bushes. I turn to my friend and say, "I think I just saw a ninja." Yeah, sure you did, whatever man, smoke another. <p> But then we go further towards a big clearing in the center of the park and hear strange noises and metal clanging. Also, at the crest of a hill, tied to a tree, are two damsels in distress, and below, battling for their honor or something, is a big bald guy in total renn faire wear, swinging a realistic looking axe at two guys dressed in matching MK ninja outfits in different colors, who are themselves wielding some kinda ninja looking weapons. We just stare at this scene in slack jawed, THC induced awe for a minute until my friend actually drops the bong, which loudly shatters on the path, drawing the attention of the damsels and the barbarian and the two ninjas, who stop fighting and sharply look over at us... and we just turn and run to the car at a dead sprint. Which, I know, seems really pathetic, but there was just something about the combined shock of A: being really, really, really high, B: the guilty knowledge that we unwittingly stole their fake prop renn faire money, C: dropping an obvious piece of contraband paraphernalia in "public," and D: seeing a barbarian and some ninjas glare at you uneasily while swinging medieval weapons. When we got to the car, we just exchanged glances and then laughed about as hard as I've ever laughed in my life. Looking back, standing there with bongwater on my feet and being stared at by creative anachronisms, I just wish I had some ping pong balls on hand.

1) How does 4E compare to 1E? Because my friends and I still play that twice a month. What do I get out of switching?
2) Is it possible for a DM to create adventures on the fly? That's the one thing I love about 1E. I can wing it. 3.x made that impossible; it was more like trying to play Advanced Squad Leader with wands instead of machine guns.
I'm not completely opposed to 4E. I am just looking for a justification to switch. 3E never gave that to me.
(And yeah, the same folks who were howling at the injustice of the way Venom was treated in Spider Man 3 have nothing to say about D&D in terms of being less-geekier-than-thou.)

Too soon? Anyway, I used to play RPGs when I was a kid, stopping like ten years ago, but EVEN back then we, through our own initiative, were able to come up with much simple rules to enjoy a session without all the burocratic crap and 2+hours character creation. It was based on Dragonlance's SAGA system, which was far more entertaining and simple from D&D's (it was the second edition, if I remember). I mean, counting how many fucking squares (?) you can walk, and have penalties according to your race? Who gives a shit? SAGA only used simple dices to damage account and nothing else, all the rest was dealt with a regular card deck.

...explain that one to my wife, please.
Met at a LARP a decade ago. Still married. Still playing.
The only problem we have now is making sure we can afford the weekend daycare sponsored for the other four LARP families with kids in our group.
This might come as a shock, but LARPers actually meet real, live people and talk to them, instead of staring at screens all day. Things resembling real life tend to happen when that happens.

And fuck these assholes with the non-existent imaginations.
My group pretty much gave up on D&D when 3rd Ed came out. We're die hard 2nd Ed players ourselves, along with Rolemaster, so we actually dig on the massive complicated rules.But then again, we have 12' long dioramic sceneries when we play.
Looking forward the then next two.

I will never forget my single D&D experience. My wife (a recovering megahot EQ addict) was convinced D&D might be the thing for us, so we talked our way into a new campaign or quest or whatever-the-fuck our friends were running. Five hours later, as we sat there and watched this 28 year old UberNerd wizard fucker banish all the undead from the map for the millionth time, I found myself looking for sharp objects.
Don't get me wrong. I LOVED me some BattleTech back in the day. But D&D? Not for me, comrades.

If you want simplicity, go to a used bookstore and get a copy of the old "Blue Book" aka Holmes Edition. Everything you need is in one book and it's easy as pie to learn. Gygax WAS D&D. He used words like "dweomer" and "glaive guisarme". Best of all, Gygax-era D&D was based on Swords & Sorcery (Conan, John Carter, Kull, Poul Anderson and Jack Vance), where you kill monsters and bad guys and take their stuff, while 2E and later editions were based on Lord of the Queers, Fag Queen of Sha-na-na and other shitty books written by cocksuckers with four initials in their names.

If your spending your time posting messages on the biggest geeky movie website on the internet, you really have no right to deride a review of dungeons and dragons. Aintitcoolnews seems like a perfect place for a review like this to reach people that don't peruse gaming sites, but probably used to play and might be interested in this.

...congratulations to each one of you for scoring direct hits on the Ain't It Hypocritical Talkback. I can't help but laugh at how the mere mention of D&D suddenly transformed a bunch of LOTR-watching Cheeto Puffers into Vic fucking Ferrari, too cool for the room and in full denial. For those of you hating on D&D because you REALLY don't like it/never played it, God bless ya. For the rest of you---I'm playing 1st (and only) Edition right now, and I've got a Chessex d20 in one hand and your girlfriend's ass in the other. Better not bring her to GenCon!!!

seems somewhat hypocritical when you think about the fact that this is a movie news site... what is acting other than LARPing? You dress up and pretend to be someone else. This coming from a frequent performer at a local theatre. The only difference is, in one there's an audience and the other you're just doing it for the pure fun of it. Is the guy in the park really a wizard? No. Is Matt Damon really a secret agent? Is Orlando Bloom really an elf? No. Get over it. Let people enjoy themselves however they feel like it.

What am I missing? I have a hot ass wife who is a sci-fi fan, has a 145 IQ and DD tits. We have no kids and won't have any, are in our early 30s and are both working professionals with no mortgage payment.
We travel, party, and do whatever our geeky whims demand.
How's your life?

Heh. Don't feel bad for me. I don't want kids. Why should I?
So I can watch my hot wife loose her figure, see all the money I earn spent on a screaming brat who doesn't appreciate it, and not be allowed to up and take off to Europe when I feel like it.
No, don't feel bad for me. The "no-kids" lifestyle is a choice buddy. My point was to Conspiracy because he said if you play D&D you don't have a life or know what a vagina is.

but as soon as you dress up like a fictional character you cross the geek event horizon into Ubernerd-destined-to-die-alone territory. And I don't care whether you are an elf, Starfleet officer, or fucking stormtrooper. Larp=Trekkies=501. You all know this to be true, and the internet allows you to admit to this anonymously, because you sure as fuck wouldn't do it if you could see the looks of pity and contempt that you'd get. And the wedgies.

Are perverts, speaking from personal experience, the females dress scantily and theres just alot of young hormonal people running around without adult supervision in the woods. Its like a Friday the 13th flick.

Massa, you may love this, but the more I hear about new rules and simplification and "everyone is involved" the more I think this is the death of people actually caring what the books say. I wasn't a huge fan of 2E at first, but it made some good contributions. 3E's one great contribution was making it officially OK to open up classes to everyone, even though good DM's everywhere had done this for a long time already. The feats were interesting but only really pleased munchkins. What we are losing in 3E, 3.5E, and 4E is that sense of wonder and awe we felt at discovering and defeating the trials and terrors of that world, and it was made all the better because the deck was stacked against us. The more you described 4E the more I thought of Magic and Pokemon where things are so prepackaged you aren't playing in your imagination, you are just doing math.

I've got to say that I've been straddling the fence about 4E. I like you have over $1000 in 3.5 books alone and the idea of 4E pissed me off. It made me so mad to think that they were after even more of my hard earned money. This review has changed that. the fun and flexibility you described are what I look for in a game system. I like the idea that things are going to be much simpler now that I know simpler doesn't mean stupid, just less complex. It has my grubby paws twitching, waiting to get onto these books.
As for the asshats who don't see how a D&D gamer could be married, much less have their wife gaming with them, well, all I can say is that I know many D&D gamers with wives and they come from every walk of life and age group. I do technical support, my best friend (A married man with a new baby girl) has a doctorate in molecular biology, and one of groups players is even a 48 year old man in the banking industry with a daughter almost our age, both of whom play D&D. Don't even try to pigeonhole us.

Reading back over some of the other comments (aside from those by mental 10-year olds accusing us of being virginal dorks), I should like to point out that I was a reviewer for almost five years and the only thing I ever got that was even close to payment was free products (which I had to review) and free admission to GenCon one year. Money? Hah!

"And it is time to upgrade my friends."
Why would you want to upgrade your friends? It seemed to me that you liked them.
There is a MAJOR difference between "Eat, my friends" and "eat my friends". Remember: comma before a direct address.

I remember going to my cousin's house once a week to play AD&D. Man, I miss those days. I think the 1st and 2nd ed AD&D is the best, not all that trilled with 3rd or 4th ed. As much fun online is, the goold ole fashion sit at the table with your figure and the DM shows the map, etc will always be the best way to play.

to suck their collective dicks?
I consider this the death of D&D as an intellectual property (a property I might add, that survived not one but 2 dreadful movies and an abysmal MMORPG).
And I have 30 years (well, 29 really) of gaming experience to back up my opinion.

yeah, seriously... I could barely read this article with teh distracting sound of Massa eating dicks drowing out all thought.
4e is a fucking tragedy, and now that everyone can get the books and see what shit it is, you're going to show everyone what a fanboi sellout you are. This game is SHIT.

"4th is not D&D per-se" one reviwer has said. I completely agree. The more I looked through it, the more I felt like I was reading a Brady Games guide for World of Warcraft. This is a game that wants to be a jumped-up minis game or a tabletop MMORPG. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but if I wanted to play either, I'd do it and don't need my D&D to be a hybridized amalgam of them as well.
I've gotten the 4E Core books from Amazon. On a first look there are definitely features of interest, and after playing some demo mods at Elicon, I think the basic system has some good points to recommend it for a specific kind of game and the simple fact of having your entire set of options on 1 sheet of paper speeds things up. Whether or not your options should *be* encompassable like that is a seperate topic.
However, my overall impression is much like one I had upon first reading through all of "The Hobbit" AFTER having read "Lord of the Rings". Or how I look at the old boxed-set "D&D Basic" stuff after reading the full Advanced D&D in the PHB/DMG. For those who haven't seen it, in Basic D&D, your race was your class, a handful of spells, 3 alignments - chaotic, neutral, lawful, etc.- It was basics and introductory stuff intended for younger players & made no pretense to be otherwise. Those ready for something more complex were directed to the AD&D books.
The more I read it, the more it feels like the old boxed basic D&D - A summary of a much richer & more detailed system and not really intended for more complex (or, in some cases, mature) play. Stunted. Too many of the things I find that are best left to RP, that allow people to play the character they really want to play, are gutted - Strong-armed rail-roading ways to playing classes, rigid "party roles", no multi-classing worthy of the concept, hand-waving alignment, etc., a comparative handful of "spells", esp. as non-attack options. Or heck, basic setting-building, which is the role of the GM. The idea of a handful of "trained" skills that never increase unless you burn a feat I'm still very ambivalent about. I prefer character design more amenable to fine-tuning, which seemed the whole point of *having* skills and feats in the first place, not to mention fairly extensive spells lists....and so on. It seems very dumbed-down.
Maybe if 4 & 3/3.5 had switched order I wouldn't feel quite so ambivalent with "this is the 'new, improved' version?? WTF?!?!?" Again, much as if "The Hobbit" were LOTR's sequel and The One Ring "revised" back into a mere invisibility trinket, with Elrond running the Keebler Cookie tree instead of Rivendell and so on. Blech.
Anyway, that's my impression of what I'm seeing. Feels like a major misfire. If I didn't expect my friends would be playing "Living Forgotten Realms" and thus that I'll need to use this, I'd drop it faster than Highlander II and forget it ever happened.

All of these people with preconceived notions on what a person should do with their time or what a husband/wife is or isn't... need to get off their high horse and shut the hell up. The internet never fails to disgust me at the depravity and ignorance of the human species. Ah. I love it. Thanks for keeping life interesting.