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[Hollow Knight] Sequel: Silksong Announced

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I wonder why it is that I can spend a bunch of time on stuff like the White Palace's Path of Pain and enjoy all of it, but a hard boss that I keep dying on frustrates the hell out of me (Grey Prince, Grimm). I'd love a metroidvania that had no bosses at all, just platforming and exploration.

Ever played Ori and the Blind Forest? It has combat and some boss fight esque stuff but it's basically just super tight platforming and exploring.

I wonder why it is that I can spend a bunch of time on stuff like the White Palace's Path of Pain and enjoy all of it, but a hard boss that I keep dying on frustrates the hell out of me (Grey Prince, Grimm). I'd love a metroidvania that had no bosses at all, just platforming and exploration.

Ever played Ori and the Blind Forest? It has combat and some boss fight esque stuff but it's basically just super tight platforming and exploring.

Ori and the Blind Forest was described as Super Meatroid here.

3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767

+1

3clipseI will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular

I wonder why it is that I can spend a bunch of time on stuff like the White Palace's Path of Pain and enjoy all of it, but a hard boss that I keep dying on frustrates the hell out of me (Grey Prince, Grimm). I'd love a metroidvania that had no bosses at all, just platforming and exploration.

Ever played Ori and the Blind Forest? It has combat and some boss fight esque stuff but it's basically just super tight platforming and exploring.

The only reason I like White Palace and Path of Pain is because I used the honey health charm thing. It really makes you take it more methodically that way, as after each fail you sit and wait for your health pip to regenerate. It gives you time to think and plan. Plus they are decent with the checkpointing.

Yo fuck the White Palace, seriously. Platforming hell of that sort is the worst.

The only thing more infuriating than actually completing the White palace is watching someone else go through it and finding out there are legitimate shortcuts that the developers programmed into it that you didn't see.

The number of times i said "ok this has to be the last part" could've been interpreted as how i read a comma.

+1

3clipseI will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular

I thought the White Palace was out of place compared to the rest of the game, yeah you don't have to do it, but in a similar way you don't have to play classic games on Normal instead of Easy. That being said, I was super happy when it was over. Carrying the flower pedal or whatever without taking a hit was frustrating until I pathed out the whole thing and memorized enemy locations and patterns.

I thought the White Palace was out of place compared to the rest of the game, yeah you don't have to do it, but in a similar way you don't have to play classic games on Normal instead of Easy. That being said, I was super happy when it was over. Carrying the flower pedal or whatever without taking a hit was frustrating until I pathed out the whole thing and memorized enemy locations and patterns.

I bought it on the Switch, and subsequently beat the hell out of it. Nice little game. Chock full of designs that I wouldn't say are outright bad or wrong, but that would make me say "Hey devs, you should know better than this". Like the entire exploration system that seems positively in love with making you walk around giant areas with no map and precious little save points. Couple that with absolutely no guidance whatsoever, I had literally no idea what I was doing or where to go for almost the entire game. I ended up just downloading some maps and started clearing out all the various collectibles. Also, the combat wasn't much to write home about. I will say god bless the ability to heal whenever you want. Without that this game would have frustrated the fuck out of me and probably would have been put down long ago.

Thankfully everything else about the game just kinda came together wonderfully. I had this amazing moment where I was beating my head against Nightmare King Grimm, about to come to the conclusion that the fight was simply bullshit and I don't have the ridiculous reaction time they seem to want. And then... I had one of those transcendence moments. Some gear just shifted into place. I went for about a 5 minute stretch where I dodged everything. I was like Neo looking at the code of the Matrix. I sadly didn't win that fight, and I'm sure I was just a few hits away to boot. But I wasn't mad or discouraged, quite the opposite. I knew then and there I had it. Took about 10 more tries (including one infuriating one where I actually won, but also died to a fire wave at the same time, and no it doesn't count) but I eventually got it and felt like a fucking badass.

"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
PSN: TheWolfman64 3DS/Pokemon Y: 0774-4614-4065/NNID: the_wolfman64

I'm not going to say you were playing the game wrong or anything, because those feelings of being lost and not having any idea where to go are valid if you didn't enjoy them. It wasn't a mistake by the developers though, it's the feeling they intended you to have as you were playing. Each time you go to a new area they wanted you to have to take time exploring, beefing up your spacial awareness and mental map of an area until you progressed far enough in to find the actual map.

+5

3clipseI will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular

I thought the White Palace was out of place compared to the rest of the game, yeah you don't have to do it, but in a similar way you don't have to play classic games on Normal instead of Easy. That being said, I was super happy when it was over. Carrying the flower pedal or whatever without taking a hit was frustrating until I pathed out the whole thing and memorized enemy locations and patterns.

I thought the White Palace was out of place compared to the rest of the game, yeah you don't have to do it, but in a similar way you don't have to play classic games on Normal instead of Easy. That being said, I was super happy when it was over. Carrying the flower pedal or whatever without taking a hit was frustrating until I pathed out the whole thing and memorized enemy locations and patterns.

Bad time to tell you enemies don't respawn until you sit at a bench?

That's not true, they respawn as soon as you switch screens.

Not all of them. Most of the bigger stuff stays gone until you rest. That's how I did the flower on my replay. I got most of the way there then got hit but then instead of warping back I just walked so the majority of the things would stay gone and i'd only have to worry about the environmental stuff or the enemies that die in one hit.

I'm not going to say you were playing the game wrong or anything, because those feelings of being lost and not having any idea where to go are valid if you didn't enjoy them. It wasn't a mistake by the developers though, it's the feeling they intended you to have as you were playing. Each time you go to a new area they wanted you to have to take time exploring, beefing up your spacial awareness and mental map of an area until you progressed far enough in to find the actual map.

The problem is their design didn't really foster a sense of exploration. It instead fostered a feeling of "If I die, who knows what bench I'm going to get shunted back to, and I might as well kiss my money combined because I'm not going to remember exactly where I was".

Personally I would change the mapping system by letting you fill out the map regardless of whether you bought it or not, because this system implies that all you're really buying is the damn scrap of paper to scribble on. Were it up to me I'd also just get rid of having to rest to officially update the map. I mean Grandma Metroid did exactly this, just auto filling the map as you walked, even if you were walking into the complete unknown. But since dying would technically fill in the map upon respawning, I could settle for that. Then I'd know where my soul is, and can also semi deduce from the map where possible save locations are so I'm not having an epic backtrack.

These games live and die by their mapping system, and given how deceptivally huge this game is, their mapping system fell short.

"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
PSN: TheWolfman64 3DS/Pokemon Y: 0774-4614-4065/NNID: the_wolfman64

0

3clipseI will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular

I think the mapping system is absolutely perfect for what the devs were going for, which was you frequently being lost and having to wander around with no idea where you were. That was 100% a design goal.

I can't progress because of my joycon's being drifty so while i wait for my new ones to apparently arrive via horseback i have been farming Geo with fragile greed in greenpath you can get about 130 geo per trip killing the moss knights

I thought the White Palace was out of place compared to the rest of the game, yeah you don't have to do it, but in a similar way you don't have to play classic games on Normal instead of Easy. That being said, I was super happy when it was over. Carrying the flower pedal or whatever without taking a hit was frustrating until I pathed out the whole thing and memorized enemy locations and patterns.

Bad time to tell you enemies don't respawn until you sit at a bench?

That's not true, they respawn as soon as you switch screens.

Not all of them. Most of the bigger stuff stays gone until you rest. That's how I did the flower on my replay. I got most of the way there then got hit but then instead of warping back I just walked so the majority of the things would stay gone and i'd only have to worry about the environmental stuff or the enemies that die in one hit.

Yeah I was experimenting with this while building my own metroidvania recently. It seems like each enemy type has different respawn triggers. Nuisance enemies like little fliers tend to respawn on screen change (this also resets their location in the screen). Bigger enemies like the knights in the city respawn when you use a bench, and the biggest enemies like the baldur shells never respawn.

I assume the City of Tears is still main progress? I manged to get into this area up above Greenpath that linked back into Dirttown/tutorial zone and learn a cool spin move from a trainer, and I can't seem to progress anywhere in the misty area between Greenpath/Fungal Zone with the jellyfish due to those black barriers or the boiling water (Cornifer appears to be behind a barrier as well, so can't start on a map).

I do finally have enough for the lantern and there's also Deepnest but... I assume Deepnest is the real shit.

I assume the City of Tears is still main progress? I manged to get into this area up above Greenpath that linked back into Dirttown/tutorial zone and learn a cool spin move from a trainer, and I can't seem to progress anywhere in the misty area between Greenpath/Fungal Zone with the jellyfish due to those black barriers or the boiling water (Cornifer appears to be behind a barrier as well, so can't start on a map).

I do finally have enough for the lantern and there's also Deepnest but... I assume Deepnest is the real shit.

Yes. It definitely is. There's a lot to be found in the City which needs progression goodies to access as well, IIRC.

I think the mapping system is absolutely perfect for what the devs were going for, which was you frequently being lost and having to wander around with no idea where you were. That was 100% a design goal.

The only change I would have made is after you have a quill, you should have been able to start making your own map for the area. Even if that meant backtracking to Dirtnap, getting a blank piece of paper and scribbling as you traverse rooms. I get that they want you to start with Conifer's work but it feels kind of silly. I'm more of a cartographer than he is at this point!

I wonder why it is that I can spend a bunch of time on stuff like the White Palace's Path of Pain and enjoy all of it, but a hard boss that I keep dying on frustrates the hell out of me (Grey Prince, Grimm). I'd love a metroidvania that had no bosses at all, just platforming and exploration.

Check out The Swapper. That game doesn't even give you a weapon.

I'm a few days late here, and I still haven't started Hollow Knight, but just want to say that the Swapper is excellent. What a good and memorable game. I loved it and always perk up when someone mentions it here.

Well I'm kind of trying to constantly backtrack and explore when I unlock new abilities, and fill in each map as much as I can at that time as well. Though I'm super paranoid when moving into an area I don't have a map for.

After getting the lantern I dipped around in the mining area for a bit since there was a lower entrance than the one up above with the singing miner which is blocked by one of those black barriers. Zero sign of Conifer in 10 ish screens and I had a ton of geo so I noped out of there before getting too disoriented.