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Round Table: Let's Talk About the Famicom / NES

Tom: Back to the games, naturally we still play NES games a fair bit. Thinking about your own personal top 10s, how do these games REALLY stack up nowadays?

Jon: I think most of the ones in my Top 10 hold up pretty well, actually. Bubble Bobble is still great for multiplayer, and the Mario and Mega Man games have aged very gracefully. It gets a little dicier the further you go down the list, though.

Stephen: World of Warcraft came out the same year I first played The Legend of Zelda, so I don't really have much nostalgia fogging my vision. That said, there are a few NES games that stand up to the best of their respective genres — most notably Super Mario Bros. 3 and, indeed, Mega Man.

Tom: I certainly agree on Mario and Mega Man titles. I'm not actually a fan of the two original Zelda games, though I know they're sacrosanct and all that.

Morgan: Well, aside from Bubble Bobble, Kirby's Adventure is my NES fav, and when I got it on the Wii U VC it was all I wanted to play for weeks! I still can't get over how creative it is. The black & white Dreamland level (which I'd never reached before) put a huge smile on my face, and it's one of the few games where as soon as I'd beat it, I fired it right back up again from the start!

BEAST DAVE: I agree with Jon. SMB3, StarTropics, DuckTales - just a few favourites - still feel pretty great.

Morgan: Tom, I'm with you there. Link's Awakening is where Zelda gets fun for me!

Stephen: You have a point about Zelda. The original was brilliant, but it's been bettered in almost every way since then.

Jon: I think where people latch on to Zelda 1 is in how open it is. Like, there's zero direction. Zelda II gets a lot of unwarranted hate. That's a pretty great game still.

Stephen: Also, while we're championing underdogs, I love the first Final Fantasy for some reason. So much.

Tom: Perhaps I came to it too late, with Zelda, as I was conditioned to expect more pointers; not linear "go this way idiot" guidance, but more obvious hints.

BEAST DAVE: I have zero experience with Zelda II, but I still find the original to be a blast to play. The sense of exploration was brilliant at the time.

Jon: Yeah, Zelda and Metroid have no hints whatsoever. Not a lot of games are like that anymore — we've got Dark Souls, and...

...well I think that's it.

Tom: Toki Tori 2, before the patch!

Jon: ba-dum tish

Stephen: I've always kind of put Dark Souls and Toki Tori 2 in the same camp. Kind of like DotA and League of Legends.

Tom: In terms of the influence of the NES library on the modern day, how significant is it? Or to put it another way, how important a building block is it, vital or since overlapped by SNES and beyond?

Stephen: Looks at Nintendo's core cast. It's... pretty much the same.

Jon: Incredibly significant. People who were itty bitty kids when the NES was current are now out there making games.

In the indie realm I think we're seeing a lot of influence by way of simpler interfaces and immediate mechanics.

Stephen: Exactly! A very good point. Devs are constantly looking back to those old games to make their new games. It's a weird and cool cycle.

In the indie realm I think we're seeing a lot of influence by way of simpler interfaces and immediate mechanics.

Morgan: Yeah, certainly in terms of franchises, NES is the king! And then I think things like DuckTales Remastered prove that despite all the advancement over the years, there's still a lot of interest in the types of games that started life on the NES.

Tom: Just this week a dev celebrated his Wii U license by reading through his old Nintendo Power mags!

The NES brought pretty drastic change at the time, compared to the experiences on Atari / Commodore / Spectrum etc. Like colour TV to black and white, I reckon.

Stephen: To paraphrase a recent episode of Extra Credits, classics games from the NES days remind us of products made purely for the joy of it. Adventure, excitement... simplicity in a childlike form of fun.

Morgan: I like that, Stephen! And that's definitely my impression from my VC experience with the NES library!

BEAST DAVE: That's a good way to put it, Tom. Atari always felt like a bunch of blocks with little personality, then with the NES, like we stated before, it brought exciting and detailed characters and worlds into the living room.

Tom: So do you think NES started the "modern" era of gaming, and do you think a new era has begun or will soon? In other words, how long will the NES be that key foundation?

Jon: I guess it depends on what you mean by "modern". It certainly resuscitated the home console market.

Stephen: That's a tricky question. I feel like games have been building from those uncomplicated blocks bit by bit over the years and haven't stopped yet. Contra has become Modern Warfare, in a sense.

BEAST DAVE: I just made the same Contra to COD comparison the other day, Stephen!

Jon: I think it started a wave that receded once gaming moved into 3D, which forced developers to think with a whole new grammar.

Tom: That seems like a good way of looking at it Jon.

Jon: As indie development becomes more prominent, like now, I think those roots show themselves again.

Morgan: I definitely think of the NES as the bedrock of my modern hobby, if only because it started many conventions that I think of as defining "console gaming". The controllers, the genres, even region locking!

BEAST DAVE: Remember when the N64 was the big thing? Those 2D platformers that defined the NES/SNES era were virtually nowhere to be found – there were a few exceptions, of course.

Morgan: Mischief Makers being the best!

Jon: Yeah, platformers became this weird mix of world exploration and item grabbing that kinda ran itself into the ground by the start of the next gen.

Stephen: For the longest time nobody could make 2D games because they weren't "hot" and "popular" and "cool" and whatnot, but big-time publishers aren't the only people making games. That's where the indies come into play, who are bringing back the long-suffering platformers.

Which is lovely beyond words.

BEAST DAVE: Well Jon, like you said previously, it's kind of all coming back now thanks to indie devs. And I'm okay with it!

Tom: So, to work towards the end. It's time to name your favourite NES game.

I'll be boring and say Super Mario Bros. 3.

BEAST DAVE: ONE game?! Oh man...

Morgan: Kirby's Adventure!!

Jon: I'll say Super Mario Bros. 2.

Morgan: Can we do a favourite underdog NES game too?

Stephen: Super Mario Bros. 3... but DANG IT Kirby is close!

BEAST DAVE: I'm going with StarTropics. I want Nintendo to revive that series oh-so badly.

Tom: You can do an "underdog" game too if you like!

Stephen: Does Final Fantasy count? Because it's Final Fantasy. Still my favourite in the series because I'm crazy.

Jon: Perhaps not _the_favorite, and I don't know if it's even considered an "underdog" game as it was made by Capcom, but Little Nemo: The Dream Master was incredible.

BEAST DAVE: Underdog, eh? I think I'll go with Little Nemo.

Jon: YEAH BEAST DAVE!

Morgan: Yay! My underdog pick's New Zealand Story. I discovered it while living in Auckland and even though the kiwi has arms (they don't even have wings, Taito!), I totally love it!

Tom: Anything else you guys want to talk about before we finish?

Jon: I wish that more game controllers had built-in mics like the Famicom's second controller so I could whisper sweet nothings to it.

Morgan: Woah, did not know about that! That's awesome.

BEAST DAVE: "Fixing" our games by blowing in them? How did we not mention that?

I didn't know about that either, Jon.

Tom: So, did you know blowing on cartridges doesn't actually help? As proven by science.

Morgan: Oh, yeah! I didn't even have an NES but that's been burned into my brain too, I blew into carts for years (not literally, obviously)!

Jon: I did that this weekend with Shaq Fu on SNES. I knew it wouldn't scientifically help, but I did it anyway and OH YEAH THE GAME WORKED TAKE THAT SCIENCE.

Also Shaq Fu isn't a very good game you guys.

Tom: NO WAY!

Jon: Way.

Who knew?

Not this guy.

Stephen: I just want to point out how radical the NES controller is. So box-like and squeaky.

Or is that just mine...?

BEAST DAVE: Mine aren't that squeaky. My SNES controllers on the other hand...

Tom: So let’s all sign off with five words to sum up the NES.

“Did have some awful shovelware” is mine.

Stephen: A box of old magic.

Morgan: Now I kinda want one.

Jon: Howzabout "We'll meet again, old friend".

BEAST DAVE: The world’s first Mario machine.

Tom: And with that, the round table is closed!

If you made it to the end, our humble thanks; we'd love to read all about your memories and opinions of the NES in the comments below.

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Welsh ex-pat Tom is responsible for the day-to-day running of the site. He's the guy to thank for the generally brilliant nature of the content which massages your eyeballs on a daily basis. Also has an unhealthy obsession with all things Bowser.

It had some amazing games all right! I've never owned an NES, so I've played NES games mostly on VC and some on the Game Boy Advance. I really wish they'd release SMB 3 on the 3DS soon, but I know it'll come at some point.

@ThomasBW84 Ah, I see. Thanks for the quick reply! That actually works out well because now it has just been the Famicom's 30th anniversary!

Greatest NES game was Iron Tank; like Sonic received some really lousy sequels, but unlike Sonic it disappeared into distant memory. In the 80's top down rail shooters were the most popular in my opinion.

My first time I played the NES we were at my mother's friend's house where she was cooking dinner. I remember being glued to the TV and and wanting my turn so bad as Mario broke blocks in world 1-2. My dad had to buy the NES through a Rent-to-own store because it was too expensive at the time. It was a huge deal when he brought that huge box with Mario and Duck Hunt in it. It was not terribly long before I was enjoying it way more than he would. There were so many times I just wanted to play but could not because he wanted the TV and we only had one in the house. To me, off-screen play on Wii U is a realization of a childhood dream. That dream was realized growing up when we finally got another TV, a small black & white, turn dial TV. It had channels 3 & 4 which is all the RF cable requirement needed. I remember many games I liked. My brother liked Bubble Bobble. I have fond memories of Bad Dudes, Double Dragon, & Mario Bros. (You know the pipes and bumping from underneath), the original Contra, Mike Tyson's Punchout (not Mr. Dream), Dragon Warrior series, Tiger Heli. I had my experience with the original Batman game and thought it was incredible! I remember the frustration and wanting to throw the controller at the screen so many times with the Ninja Turtles game, Kung Fu, and Battletoads, and Ninja Gaiden. What a huge sense of accomplishment to memorize the patterns on the racers in Battletoads, or where to use the candle to open up the latter levels in the Legend of Zelda. I remember when the best football games came from Tecmo and not EA. Reading the posts on here make me feel so old and I'm only barely into my 30's. Good memories with the NES, even more amazing memories with the Super NES. You Nintendo Life guys need to do a series like this on the SNES sometime.

Finally beating Contra with 3 lives, no continues, no power-ups for the first time. That and accidentally finding the second quest on The Legend of Zelda because I named the three saves Link, Zelda, Ganon.

I remember shoot em ups being pretty terrible on the NES. (Crisis Force was Famicom only). Power Strike / Power Strike 2 / R-Type on the Master System were much better than any of the NES ones I played. (Gradius / Xevious).

(Power Strike 2 was released at about the same time as Kirby's Adventure and is probably the best the Master System is capable of but it isn't buggy like Kirby).

When was the NES's prime ? (The TG16 was out by the time Super Mario Bros 3 was released).

Zelda 2 / Super Mario Bros 2 - Lost Levels (Japan) / Crisis Force / Super Mario Bros 3 are probably the only NES games I am bothered about. The rest are inferior in every way to PC Engine versions of the same game. (Other than sometimes having English text).

Castlevania III maybe but I don't like the NES version being inferior to the Famicom one. (Not bothered about the text).

My memories of the NES in the UK are vastly different to that of Tom's. I remember it being very popular. I Knew a few people that had a NES when I was a child and I remember every time me and my family went to Toys R Us, there was a whole aisle dedicated to NES games and then there was a tiny section for Master System games. I only knew one person that had a Master System...

Feels kind of weird reading a round table of people too young to experience the NES as it originally was.... To really understand the NES you had to understand what video games were like back in the early 80's just before the NES launched.

The Atari was the console to have just before the NES launched... The backgrounds were static on every game. You had to walk off screen for the background to change to the next scene. NES delivered the first sidescrolling video game which made the game world really come alive. It really brought exploration to video games.

The NES allowed consumers to have almost arcade caliber of graphics in your home. Thats what wowed people the most. Before you had to go pump quarters into a machine to play the latest and greatest graphics.

Video games were EXPENSIVE back then.. NES games cost anywhere from $30 to $40. Which adjusting for inflation is $100+
The NES console itself at $199 which was absurdly expensive. That would be equivalent of almost $500 USD in todays dollars.... My parents rarely ever purchased games for me. Twice a year, once on my birthday, once for Christmas, and the rest of the time was filled out with renting games from the video store.

All in all, I wouldn't trade my early video game memories for anything (1984+)... The games don't stack up to todays standards, and its fun to watch my kid brother play these NES games (he's like 18 now),... But the games are still cohesive enough to still play for fun, compared to Atari games? They are TERRIBLE, the only reason why anyone ever purchased Atari and games is because it really was the only thing out there if you didn't want to purchase a home computer (which were like the cost of 2 or 3 game consoles together).... Nintendo literally saved video games. And if we have another contraction, I bet Nintendo will save the industry a second time

There are so many great personal memories with the NES, especially since I got to be part of that generation as a kid. Beating games like Zelda and Zelda II, Dragon Quest, Legacy of the Wizard and the NES versions of Ultima in an age where there was no internet, and sometimes on a b&w tv, was something to be proud of. Don't miss blowing on the carts, or having to use one cart wedged on top of another cart to hold it in the machine if the spring broke, one bit tho.

I recently had a fun NES re-visit. I play a lot of modern Nintendo stuff with my 8-year-old nephew and recently while playing Mario Bros. U he asked what Mario 1 was like. I dusted off my old cartridges and controllers and we played little bits of my NES collection. He was amazed by the old technology, and I felt old, myself. The best part was teaching him how to blow the dust out of a cartridge, old-school style. I think we'll soon be re-visiting the SNES so he can further his Nintendo education.

@element187 Never did that for me really. Consoles were always gimped at 50hz (PAL) whilst the arcades weren't. Sprite flicker didn't happen either on the arcades either. (The one thing that puts me off nearly all NES games). If they had just put a 50/60 switch on it might have been different. (I got one added to my SNES and played no 50hz after that). Zelda 2 is the first NES game I remember having any real interest in. The Amiga was the first home computer that had any real impact on me. (Don't remember specifics never owned one). Followed by the Archimedes version of Lemmings. The NES was not in the same ballpark.

Wow the NES. I still remember getting this on my 7th birthday in 1987. I will never forget it. I got Rob, the gun, Gyromite, Super Mario Bros and Dunk Hunt. No gaming experience will ever top the day I first played these games. All we would talk about at school was Super Mario Bros. I remember later on my godfather brought me thi gold game, we all know what this is. I could not believe how great it was to explore anywhere you wanted, metroid came after. The NES saved gaming, things we take for granted now all started from the NES to even the controllers we use. It may not be the best console from a game stand point but its the greatest because it saved video games and it's the most influential by far!

@Ryno & @Element187 A couple of the guys did have an NES back in the day, and we were also talking about its legacy. I was old enough to have owned one back in the day, but we had a Spectrum (so I know what pre NES gaming was all about) and that system actually allowed us to learn basic programming. Sorry if not owning one "in the day" offended anyone, though frankly the idea that's a flaw of some kind is offensive to me.

@shuis
your story is very similar to mine... though it was elevator action that first caught my attention...
but all the games you played i also played gradius.. r-type.. and of course temco bowl!!
that was the first game me and my friends would do some trash talk... awesome!

Super Mario Bros. looked exactly like it did in the arcade. That was a big deal to me at the time as I'd never seen such a feat accomplished. Did extra summer work to buy the NES and was completely swept away. My friend down the street got the entire deluxe set and ROB was kind of fun for awhile with his spinning gyros. He's definitely a one trick pony, but I'm glad I was able to try him out. Of course once my friend and I started to tackle Zelda ROB was quickly forgotten.

My parents had an NES before i was born in early 1989. We didnt get an SNES til 1993, so the NES my parents owned and the Sega Genesis my grandma had were my first gaming memories. Since we're talking NES, i have a few specific memories from my very early childhood.

Punch-Out!! - I remember this being my dad's favorite game. I just recently got to play it with him again on WiiU. It was like a blast from 20 years ago. I couldnt wait til he got home from work every day so we could try and get to Tyson.

Super Mario Bros 3 - The first game i remember begging my parents to buy after renting it several times. Also the first game i remember playing with my younger brother. The super leaf and frog suit are still 2 of my favorite ever Mario power ups.

Bubble Bobble - The only game i ever played in which my mom was better at it than me (at least when i was age 3 or so anyway).

Battletoads and TMNT 3 - I played these games with my cousin at his place for hours on end. Co-op beat em ups were simply awesome for us. We never did beat Battletoads...

Zelda II - I didnt play the original til years later, but the gold cartridge was awesome to me as a kid. I sucked at this game, but i loved exploring the world of Zelda, something I still love to this day.

There are so many other games I remember playing on NES. Duck Hunt, Super Mario Bros 1-2, Kid Icarus, Mega Man 5, Kirby's Adventure, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr, Double Dragon II, Double Dribble, Metroid... It was a great system, and started a love for Nintendo games that will always be with me.

Man... my first time playing Nintendo.. was so long ago.. I got to play Zelda.. at the time the NES was still going for like 800 to 1000 dollars believe it or not and the games were 150-300 dollars a piece.. my cousin had one... and.. I was addicted to it... I was already a gamer.. cause I had a Atari 2600... and loved it.. but Nintendo was just awesome.. my jaw hit the floor on the graphics.. LOL.. believe it or not.. those were as realistic as you got... it is a great system.. and has such great games.. that even in this day and age.. it still is the home of many priceless memories.. just awesome..

At the young age of 35 I am proud to say I've been there basically from the start.I remember my uncle having a 2600 with a collection of games that might have been built in to the system,Adventure I think was the first game I ever saw.I may have been as young as 2 or 3 at that time and I remember getting my own soon after.I then upgraded to the Spectrum 128k +2A and along with my best mate became obsessively addicted to any football manager games.Then it was on to the Master System where Alex the Kidd became the greatest thing I'd ever seen.My first experience with the NES I can vividly remember being Blades of Steel and thinking how great it was as 1 thing I'd never really played before was a decent sports game.We used to regularly swap consoles after that and I used to hate giving him it back,especially after playing Mario 3.Then I saw my mates imported Japanese Sonic,my first and most memorable Wow moment and my allegiance swung back to SEGA.My blind fanboyism made me dismiss anything Nintendo through the majority of the 90's,although I did have a Gameboy for a short time.Most of my nostalgia for Nintendo really began with the N64 but after playing all those amazing SNES games on VC I kind of regret missing out on them.Just like music was at it's best and most creative in the 60's and 70's,the same can be said about gaming in the 80's and 90's.The sense of wonderment and the unknown made for magical times that will sadly never be seen again!

I was born in 1987, so the NES was the first console I can recall, though I never owned one (I was a PC gamer from '89 onward, haha). Several of my friends did, though, so here are some memories.

First off, I never exactly got that "wow" factor because I just accepted the NES as how games were. It took until partway through the SNES lifecycle before games really started to blow me away. (We're talking DKC, Super Mario RPG...)

The first game I remember playing was either Duck Hunt or Mario. Of the two I preferred Duck Hunt because I got to shoot a gun! I also thought the clay pigeon mode was UFOs and I was shooting aliens.

One friend had Fester's Quest. We were in preschool at the time and as you can imagine that didn't really improve things. In fact, we played for maybe an hour and got absolutely nowhere. We had no idea what we were doing. It stands out in my mind because we got SO MAD at it!

Super Mario Bros. 3 scared me because of the level where the sun comes down after you. I would actually start crying. I would refuse to be in the same room with the cart and if I saw someone playing it, I would hide behind my hands and ask, "Is this the level with the sun?"

In preschool I had a babysitter who had a son with an NES. He and a friend would sit there playing it all the time and never let me play, so I would just watch. It was usually a racing game. I don't know which one, but I really wanted to have a turn. When I would ask the babysitter to make them let me play a bit, she would tell me, "Video games aren't for girls." Even though they were the same age as me, she would always make me take a nap and they got to stay up and play the NES instead. I was sooooo jealous.

I did have a master system, too, and there colors were more vibrant but the platforming games were so awful to control. R-type was great and miracle warriors and then especially Phantasy Star eventually kept it in use but gradius was a far more interesting power up system for shooters. The NES had far better action games. Oh but fantasy zone was a stand out too. It was pretty amazing with the little-used trackball accessory for the Master System. I also really liked Zillion despite its wretched controls.

For the most part the best Master System games were always the "yeah that's pretty good too" games compared to the amazing variety depth and smooth gameplay of the best NES games.

I am several years younger than most of you guys, so I started out playing NES games on the Wii Virtual Console. My mom and dad first bought Super Mario Bros 3. It was fun and the idea of the Wii remote sideways did seem very clever to memorialize the NES controller. Then there was Metroid which also had its fun, though it wasn't as great as the other Metroid games I have played. Mega Man 3 was the third NES (I think) game I played and was also really good. I can see why the NES sold well, because the games seem very great. I really think the NES is an amazing gaming console.

It was 1985, NES was brand new, came with ROB, Gyromite, and Duck Hunt. A friend and I stayed up all night trying to figure out how to use ROB. You cannot understand how awesome it was unless you lived those times. You could go to the arcade (kids today don't even know what that is) and see the same games that you have at home on Nintendo. Capcom games especially. NES is responsible for the video game culture as it stands today. You have to realize that the home console market was dead when NES came out — Atari was old and fail at that point.

My memories a friend had a nes and we would play, Super Mario bros and Duck hunt. I wanted to buy a nes at the time but the guys at school no wait for the snes! I couldn't in the end I bought a megadrive. After a couple of years I traded in my mega drive for the snes for the Super Mario All Stars pack and even to this day I prefer that collection to the nes versions, one day I am going to play the Zelda series but I will start with the Nes version first....

While we're waxing nostalgia: to beat a game in those days was very communal with your friends at school. There was no internet to find out secret levels and stuff. For example on Zelda, we'd spend an entire weekend bombing rock walls to find a secret, then make maps on paper of each screen, and share with our friends at school. We'd designate tasks to each other and share what we'd found. It was a special time. You don't get that today.

The first time I played the NES I wasn't aware I was playing it. After a large get together and a bonfire on a family farm I stayed at the Ranchers house over the night. My buddy who I was staying with had a NES and we played Duck Hunk, but after munching down on a lot of good food and staring at the fire I was too tired to even hold the gun straight.

Some months later down in my neighbourhood I was introduced to the NES again this time with Super Mario Bros. I was actually more intrigued with the console itself and wanted one, but knew the pricetag was too much as some years back I wanted a $20 toy for Christmas and that never happened.

Well, for whatever reason my entire family (aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc ...) all chipped in and I got a brand new boxed NES that came with the light gun and the SMB/Duck Hunt cart. My next game was a hand down from someone who had the earlier NES that came with ROB. The game way Gyromite.

Other games included Super Mario Bros 2, 3, Zelda I, II, and some great shumps. Even though I had the NES I really didn't play it much unless others came over. Due to the fact I was one of the only people to have one in my age group others liked to play too, but we spent most of the time outside acting like kids in the Country. I wasn't restricted to certain hours or days that I could play; I just wanted to be outside with people more then I wanted to sit in front of the TV.

Like most kids in the USA circa 1988 I got the box that included the Mario/Duckhunt cart for Christmas. Between that and my birthday I had a cool 50 bucks saved up and couldn't wait to go purchase my first game. 50 bucks was A LOT of money back then.

I walked into a Toys R Us that had all the games behind glass. I spent a long time looking and considering. Should I get Zelda? Contra? I knew those were awesome games that would give me hours of joy. But something else caught my eye. A purple game box featuring a muscle ripped barbarian wielding a sword. With a title like Deadly Towers how can you possibly go wrong?

As it turns out, game purchases could go very very wrong. I actually endured the game long enough to beat it, but I also learned a very important lesson in those days before the internet and 3rd party reviews. Always always always rent games first, before you plop down 50 bucks on a steaming pile of excretion.

@FullbringIchigo Yeah, I didn't mean they couldn't be obtained, just that they weren't particularly visible in game shops etc where I grew up. They were there, but not really much of a "force". Pretty darn pricey too, I believe.