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Topic Review (Newest First)

01-08-2007 03:15 PM

BIGSKY

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddbob

...snip...

Reality, in the time this thread has been going a lot of work could have been done.

Sorry to dig up this thread, but I just could not pass up this statement...

Its like saying, "quit arguing, get off the internet, and go sand or paint or something!" Funny stuff.

12-23-2006 03:29 PM

MARTINSR

Nothing at all.

Brian

12-23-2006 03:03 PM

shoddy_f-body

Hes talking dime sized dents.Whats wrong with scuffin up the urethane primer with some 120 and wiping them with polyester glaze?

12-23-2006 01:05 PM

Lator_Gator

Thanks to all for your info. I beleive I know what to do now and we can end this thread. I've searched this site and found an abundance of good info. Thank you.
As Baddbob said, "...take the repair areas down to bare metal, do your bump and filler work in those areas and block the rest then finish with either epoxy as a sealer coat then urethane surfacer or self etch on any bare metal spots then urethane surfacer."

Merry Christmas

'gator

12-23-2006 11:01 AM

baddbob

I agree, if you don't want to sand the etch and urethane off completely then take the repair areas down to bare metal, do your bump and filler work in those areas and block the rest then finish with either epoxy as a sealer coat then urethane surfacer or self etch on any bare metal spots then urethane surfacer.

But if you want the best repairs sand all the self etch off and start over with a good epoxy primer as your base.

Filler over bare metal is the standard proceedure in 99% of the shop's across the USA because of cost and time like Brian mentioned, and no the filler won't fail if done properly. But since the late 80's I've seen enough advantages using epoxy under filler to warrant using that proceedure on 90% of the work I do. It's a hard proceedure to accept for those that have done it the traditional way-it was for me anyway.... the benifits needed to be proven for me to warrant the extra cost and work. We've hashed this out on previous threads.

Blocking what you have and sealing with epoxy primer then doing your filler work is doable but the advantages are less IMO with the self etch and urethane being under the epoxy.

Reality, in the time this thread has been going a lot of work could have been done.

12-23-2006 10:49 AM

adtkart

Crash... you pretty much hit it on the head. There is what many consider the BEST WAY, and the other way. Both will work. I just don't believe in applying filler over any paint except epoxy. I have tested the application over epoxy, and know it will stay there.

Aaron

12-23-2006 10:00 AM

crashtech

If the bodywork is going to be confined to small spots as you say, you would do best to feather back the primer in those areas and and apply the filler to bare metal. Repairs done this way can be quite durable as long as there is no path for moisture to enter between the filler and metal, i.e. don't put bondo over holes or seams, etc.

Of course, the very best way is with epoxy first, as described so many times already, but to listen to some of these guys you'd swear the stuff would fall off in a month if you didn't do it their way, and that's just not so. I have a vehicle that was repaired in the conventional fashion with filler on bare metal, and the bodywork is still holding up 20 years later, though I'll admit the car has not lived in a harsh environment.

12-22-2006 06:53 PM

adtkart

I will say that no collision shops in my area, that I know of, put epoxy primer on the bare metal before applying the filler. That is basically because of the cost and time constraints. None of the shops that I have worked in would accept someone applying filler over primer, or any painted surface, except a product like metal glaze, or icing, where the manufacturer approves of it. Everything else is applied over bare metal.

Any work I do at home is epoxied and then filler. The quality of the repair is more important to me than the time and effort.

Aaron

12-22-2006 06:29 PM

Lator_Gator

Bodywork

Brian,

Thanks for the response. There are about two dozen little dings on the backside of the cab, most of which are about dime size and once hammered out will require half a thimble full of filler, if that.
My expectations are a pretty nice, not perfect, finish. I'm not out to win awards or even show the truck for that matter. I do have a little bit of money in it now and want it to be a nice occasional driver. It will be a stock restoration, no hot rod.
I plan on applying a single stage color coat when I get to that point.
My concern, now, is the etching primer and what Baddbob said about possibly running into problems with it reacting with the filler and/or particular epoxies. That is why I was suggesting spraying the epoxy so I could use the filler without any problems. The epoxy that has been sprayed on the doors, bed sides and hood is Dupont brand and it says it is self etching. Perhaps it won't have an adverse reaction to the Nason product.
I would love to "work with what I have" but I'm concerned about applying the filler, as explained above.
Any tips are most welcome.

'gator

12-22-2006 04:05 PM

MARTINSR

What are your expectations? Really, there is no reason to remove that etch and urethane primer. MOST shops around the country wouldn't do it any different. For that matter many (if not most) wouldn't even use the etch and apply the urethane over the bare metal.

If you are after the most wiz bang job you can get, strip it and apply epoxy. If you are simply after a nice job that 90% of the cars you see repaired or restored have, work with what you have.

How much filler work are you going to need?

Brian

12-21-2006 10:22 PM

Lator_Gator

Primer

Baddbob,

You mentioned the etch primer being forever soluable so I'm wondering how I strip that off with no residual effects if I were to strip the back of the cab?
Perhaps I should just scuff the whole exterior and shoot epoxy over it all, then do the filler. I'm only looking at minor dents that should hammer & dolly out pretty well.
Here is what I'm thinking of as a plan of attack. Please correct me where I've gone wrong:

1. Hammer & dolly out the dents/dings as best I can. (Touch up chipped urethane primer with same primer.)
2. Scuff the exterior with 120 grit.
3. Spray on the epoxy primer. (How many coats?)
4. Apply filler where necessary. (How long do I wait after applying epoxy? Scuff epoxy first?)
5. After sanding down the filler (what grit for final work?), apply a filler primer(a couple coats?).
6. Block sand everything.(What grit?)
7. Touch up as necessary.(Respray everything?)
8. Apply final primer.
9. Apply sealer.
10. Ready for color.

Thanks again to all for your willingness to help. I'm sure alot of you can do this kind of stuff in your sleep. For those of us that can't this info. is invaluable.

'gator

12-21-2006 02:26 PM

baddbob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lator_Gator

Okay, let's assume that the etch and urethane primer was layed on properly. Can I apply epoxy over that allowing me to use the filler on top?
BTW, it is Nason Urethane primer.

Yeah, you can. The only drawback is during the sanding process you'll likely cut through the primer and if the etch primer is exposed there's no putting more filler on that area. Etch primer is forever soluable and fillers shouldn't come in contact with it. Some epoxies aren't compatible with self etch primers.