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Well I would not require changelogs if the problems just would disappear Some problems exits for years (like ModeLine bug), some since a few releases (like Xserver 1.4 problems) and I am 100% sure the dev know about em... So the question is: are these bugs unsolveable for ATI or not?

Agreed.
They should be in two groups of devels.
The first group to "get inside the code" and to fix old and/or important stuff.
The second to implement new features, and for everything to consult with the people that "are in the code", that "can think like the driver", to have best implemented feature.

Why do you waste all the help the users provide via the bug tracker?

The current technical issues set aside, my biggest question is why on earth AMD/ATI does not pay more attention to what the users report on the "inofficial" bug tracker

I do understand that

devs like to avoid the stress of arguing with users
(judging by the style of some posters here I don't even dare to imagine what would happen as soon as the first bug is set to CLOSED/WONT FIX )

devs like to avoid being threated with metrics like "average fixed bugs per time unit"

depending on "culture" a company may find having a public list of "confirmed" bugs embarrassing

However, users do look at the bug tracker as soon they have problems. And as the bug tracker currently seems rather "unmaintained", they find lots and lots of "unresolved" bugs there, although IMHO many of them are actually INVALID, DUPLICATE, FIXED or at least WORKAROUND.

I bet the net result means more damage to the AMD/ATIs image than if they would simply "admit" the real bugs and close the others.

And with regards to the real bugs, many posters here seem to have really good technical skills. AMD/ATI could gain a lot of "hard facts" by "arguing" with them, or even provide a "please try this and report back"-patch now and then (possibly per private mail).

Even if the devs choose not to use the bug tracker themselfs, we (the users) would greatly benefit from concise and up to date bug reports. But of course it would be nice to see a "official" reaction now and then, just to fight the feeling that no one cares anyway.

BTW, who is the admin of http://ati.cchtml.com/ ? Perhaps some of us could join and have a "squash the bug" day, to at least close or consolidate the most obviously obsolete or duplicate reports?

I'd just like to know when they expect this driver to become stable a feature complete.

Oh and a side note, I fix/build computers for all my family and friends and as a job to pay for school. Since I spent $500 on an ATi card that has been garbage in Linux I have not put one ATi card into another computer and strongly recommend to everyone I know or work for not to buy them. I'm sure there are a lot of other people here that have done the same. That's what happens when you alienate your most technical users. The people around them that get help from or employ those technical people will do and buy whatever they say, weather or not they run Linux, Windows or Apple.

@Malikith:
Did it ever come to your mind that there might be fixes, that are not listed in the changelog? I do know that *many* devs are rather sloppy when it comes to writing down the real changes for mundane stuff like a "changelog".

Yeah, and I know there was some "minor" improvements that weren't mentioned in the change logs, but nothing that made or broke the driver, well, its been broke forever so I guess thats not really a option.

If what you say is true and the ATI devs are so lazy to put down more than 3 fixes in their changelogs, those guys are some of the laziest people I have ever seen.

Heres my point, lets take a look at the 7.11 Linux Release Notes:

Resolved Issues

The following section provide a brief description of resolved issues with the latest version of the ATI Catalyst™ Linux software suite. These include:

* Launching a new terminal un RHEL5 32bit version no longer results in an inconsistent background colors appearing each time the window is minimized and maximized
* The kernel module is now working on kernel version 2.6.23
* An error message no longer appears during installation if dash is used as /bin/sh

Alright, we know those release notes very well for resolved issues, now, lets take a look at the Windows ones real quick.

Code:

Resolved Issues for the Windows XP Operating System
This section provides information on resolved issues in this release of the ATI Catalyst™ Software Suite for Windows XP. These include:
* Enemy Territory: Quake Wars: Corruption is no longer noticed with the use of rectangle textures. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29954
* Enemy Territory: Quake Wars: The game no longer fails to respond when triple buffering is enabled. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30544
* Unreal Tournament 2004: Enabling CrossFire™ followed by attempting to change the in-game display resolution no longer results in a loss of vsync. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29950
* On certain products, dragging player window from the primary to the secondary display no longer results in hardware acceleration being disabled which resulted in the CPU usage increasing. Further details can be found in topic number 737-28516
* With some h.264 titles that have MPEG2 introductions; playback no longer switches from hardware accelerated to software once the introductory content is finished. Further details can be found in topic number 737-28517
* With some h.264 titles that have MPEG2 intros, playback no longer switches from hardware accelerated to software once the introductory content is finished. Further details can be found in topic number 737-28517
* Enabling extended desktop mode following by launching the Windows Media Player no longer results in the player failing to appear on the secondary display device in full screen mode. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29555
* The CrossFire™ option found in the Catalyst™ Control Center is now available on systems containing an ATI Radeon™ X1800 series of product and running the Windows XP operating system. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30010
* Users running Windows XP on a system containing an ATI Radeon™ HD 2600 no longer experience a drop in performance from single card mode to CrossFire™ mode when software CrossFire™ is enabled in certain applications. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29980
* Pressing the power button to resume from an S3 state no longer results in only the mouse cursor being visible and the screen remaining blank until the mouse is moved. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29948
* Dragging the WinDVD player from the primary display to the secondary display no longer results in the player failing to respond. Further, closing the WinDVD player using the Task Manager may result in the operating system failing to respond. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29955
* Enabling extended desktop mode and dragging the PowerDVD window to the secondary display device no longer results in the PowerDVD window becoming black with only the audio being heard. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29952
* Catalyst™ Control Center: German character are no longer truncated in the Profile Manager Applications tab. Further details can be found in topic number 737-29930
* Connecting a Dell 30" LDC display device to an ATI Radeon™ HD 2600 series of product no longer results in flashing or no display image. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30545
* Corruption is no longer noticed when enabling Theater mode and enabling clone mode. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30546
* The Enable ATI OverDrive™ clocks for 3D applications only checkbox is now checked and grayed out when the OverDrive™ option in the Catalyst™ Control Center is unlocked. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30600
* Ending playback of a Blu-ray title followed by toggling the CrossFire™ settings (on or off) no longer results in the Windows XP operating system failing to respond. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30543
* Enabling CrossFire™ and setting the display resolution to 2560x1600 no longer results in HD DVD titles playing back as if in fast forward mode when using a Cyberlink player. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30530
* Corruption is no longer noticed when dragging a window across the desktop edge in four monitor configuration under Windows XP. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30531
* Connecting a single display device to a secondary graphics adapter no longer results in extended desktop mode being applied. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30538
* Playing the online game TianLongBaBu for an extended period of time (2 hours or more) on a system containing an ATI Radeon™ HD2400 or HD2600 no longer results in the operating system failing to respond. Further details can be found in topic number 737-30542

And thats not even all the fixes in their release, thats just the Windows XP Fixes, they got more for Vista too. I understand the Linux team is a little understaffed, but if they REALLY did fix more than 3 things, at least they could jot it down because in the Windows release notes, they put it every single detail for the most part. So if there is anything I want to see in the future, and that is more in depth release notes, either that or they really didn't actually fix some of the things that weren't listed and instead were just magically fixed.

AMD hopes to integrate GPU with CPU

while their fglrx (aha, renamed now) have driven enough number of linux users away.

The shitty GPU driver would hurt their CPU business for sure.

at least, I have no interest in amd cpu any more. I have to admit that I was an AMD fan, I ordered 64+ CPUs for work and even bought an anthlon-mobile laptop for myself(bad choice indeed).

many reasons for not touching AMD anymore, but fglrx is just the last straw.

Originally Posted by daniel of sarnia

I'd just like to know when they expect this driver to become stable a feature complete.

Oh and a side note, I fix/build computers for all my family and friends and as a job to pay for school. Since I spent $500 on an ATi card that has been garbage in Linux I have not put one ATi card into another computer and strongly recommend to everyone I know or work for not to buy them. I'm sure there are a lot of other people here that have done the same. That's what happens when you alienate your most technical users. The people around them that get help from or employ those technical people will do and buy whatever they say, weather or not they run Linux, Windows or Apple.

Also note that the windows changelog almost exclusively
mentions games (In fact I believe the windows driver
team at ati only fixes games and hardly anything else,
because in my experience 3D performance is very crappy
if app!=game [or one of a few select CAD tools], and display
configuration leaves a LOT to be desired even in
windows)

Please ask the developers for:
1) Better aticonfig documentation for “--validate-cvmode” argument including a few examples. Examples are the most important.
2) A “xorg.conf” file for a working component video configuration. (e.g. crt1 and a component video 1280x720p@60Hz HDTV output)
3) Does the current driver (7.11) have component video working even if the HDTV monitor does not return EDID information of the HDTV's acceptable formats (e.g. 720p, 1080i ... etc)?
4) Is there any way to force HDTV formats into the Catalyst Control Center for selection?
5) Please add the abilty to aticonfig or the Catalyst Control Centre to force display on to a digital TV (HDTV) as is available under ATI's Windows utilities.

Topic

I love the topic, I think it sums up a lot of things.

Spot one difference:

"Ask ATI" dev thread

"Ask ATI" devs thread.

There is nothing else to be added. Maybe one question for the (only) ATI Linux driver developer - is it part-time job or are you from other department, just assigned to Linux for one afternoon per week?