I suspect that at some point, probably sometime during the next expansion, Normals will be going away and Flex will be the new Normal. Then it's just LFR for people who don't know anyone or are only on at weird unpredictable times, Flex for your average raider, and Heroic for your hardcore types.

Not likely at all. Normal mode is what unlocks heroic and thus can't really go away without heroic becoming the only available difficulty that you can walk into the raid portal to see.

Soothing Mist:"Healing them for a minor amount every 0.5 sec, until you take any other action."Jade Serpent Statue: "The statue will also begin casting Soothing Mist on your target. healing for 50% as much as yours. " [What's half of minor?]
"Statue casts Soothing Mist at a nearby ally for toddler healing."

It's extremely popular. And with reason, now all we can ask for is that 1. Either flex difficulty ramps up to normals or 2. Normals get the technology flex has (dynamic dificulty) meaning people with less steady playtime, though commited for challenges, can play those without having 4 nights / week without food, preps for work, children to take care of, pleasuring the wife.

I feel as though it's failed in what it originally set out to do, and I feel like it's extremely hard to get into a group that is capable of clearing the entire wing. OpenRaid is no good because you have got "12/12hc experience on main" players taking all the spots, trade chat pugs are like a casino so the majority of the time ain't even worth joining. Nobody seems to care these days about good players, they want ilvl's and achievements, and it's ruined the game for good players that simply cannot provide an achievement as they can't get into the good groups without one...

I feel as though it's failed in what it originally set out to do, and I feel like it's extremely hard to get into a group that is capable of clearing the entire wing. OpenRaid is no good because you have got "12/12hc experience on main" players taking all the spots, trade chat pugs are like a casino so the majority of the time ain't even worth joining. Nobody seems to care these days about good players, they want ilvl's and achievements, and it's ruined the game for good players that simply cannot provide an achievement as they can't get into the good groups without one...

Coming in to this tier I had absolutely no achievements or guild and a pretty low item level. I pugged a flex with a Heroic progression guild and performed well and they recruited me. Frankly everything you just said couldn't be further from reality. If you're actually a good player then you will be noticed.

WoW ranking database GuildOx has just announced a new feature -- world-first Flex guild progress ranking for Flex raid groups. According to data gathered by the fine folks at GuildOx, 64% of guilds that have raided Siege of Orgrimmar on normal mode have also completed kills using Flexible Raids as well. Given the popularity of the format, GuildOx decided to create a ranking list for guilds that raid on that difficulty. Flex ranking works the same as the usual raid progress ranking, with guilds being ranked by the number of encounters completed, and the date of their last kill.

For players that are diving full-force into Flex raids, the new rankings list should be a nice addition. And for players that haven't delved into Flex raids, it's interesting to see just how many guilds are taking that step, and how far they've gotten in the content. Myself, I'm curious as to how the rankings will be received -- since Flex raids can take any number of people, they're an entirely different animal than 10 or 25 man raiding. With 10 man ranking, you know you're being ranked against other 10 man guilds, and the same applies to 25 man raiding as well. But with Flex, you could be raiding with 12, and another guild with 24.

Interesting questions aside, it's nice to see we've got a ranking system in place for Flex raiding enthusiasts. As always, rank listings can be filtered and sorted by region or server. You can check out the full list of ranked guilds and their progress on GuildOx.http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/09/26/gu...-raid-ranking/

That is a huge number, that's just looking at guilds. It also shows that scenarios are also fairly popular.

Originally Posted by lakers01

Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!

From what I've seen personally is LFR groups have doubled to tripled in wait times for dps. Normal time in que used to be about 15-20 mins, now it's in excess of 45-60 mins unless someone bails early on one and you get 2-3 buffs of determination and you've already missed the first and/or second boss.

Not likely at all. Normal mode is what unlocks heroic and thus can't really go away without heroic becoming the only available difficulty that you can walk into the raid portal to see.

Flex will be called Normal and will unlock Heroic as usual. Bet on it. They've got what, LFR, Flex, 10N, 25N, 10H, 25H right now? Some shit is going away soon once they've had time to observe the effect of Flex on things, and Normals are the mode that make the least sense anymore.

I suspect that by the middle of the next expansion raiding will look like...

LFR: 25 man, glorified scenarios for random-ass people who suck or who don't play at consistent times.

Normal: Flexible size, meant for your average raider who has an okay guild but isn't a hardcore heroic type.

It's popular for now because most normal or even heroic raiders can use an extra chance at a trinket or a tier piece here and there. Give it 2 - 3 months and it's going to be reduced to crappy pugs who can't even clear the place.

That has less to do with flex mode itself and more to do with the actual raid itself. Everyone knows that as time goes on, people clear more and more and need less and less.

I suspect that at some point, probably sometime during the next expansion, Normals will be going away and Flex will be the new Normal. Then it's just LFR for people who don't know anyone or are only on at weird unpredictable times, Flex for your average raider, and Heroic for your hardcore types.

This entirely ignores one of the main reasons why flex was created and tuned the way it is: to be raiding for those that enjoyed Wrath 10-man difficulty and for social and family guilds that have enough people to raid but aren't necessarily all about progression.

So I doubt that Normals will go away. However I think it's entirely possible that Normal tuning will get the flex technology added to it while the lower-tuned version that is up now will stay in place. This assumes that normals will be tuned pretty much like they are now which is a little stiffer than in the past.

I feel as though it's failed in what it originally set out to do, and I feel like it's extremely hard to get into a group that is capable of clearing the entire wing. OpenRaid is no good because you have got "12/12hc experience on main" players taking all the spots, trade chat pugs are like a casino so the majority of the time ain't even worth joining. Nobody seems to care these days about good players, they want ilvl's and achievements, and it's ruined the game for good players that simply cannot provide an achievement as they can't get into the good groups without one...

That's completely not true. I run flex weekly from open raid. I don't have 12/12hc experience. I dont even have 1/12 normal experience. Almost nobody on the flex runs has either. Most of the players like myself have never even done normal. Just mostly good players who finally found a PUG raid that works and isnt the LFR mess.

Flex is really good for my guild and a guild of hardcore raider who want to gear up their alts. I run the flex and it takes 30 mins to get set up and 2 hours to down 1 wing. It's great but my guild is casual and we can not invest 2 hours every night. I still roll through lfrs to help progress my characters as I can do it in one hour a night. I need trinkets and 4 pieces, the valor is a bonus. Flex is great but can't be done when ever it is convenient. LFR still maintains it's place.

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Originally Posted by TylerN

I think flex is very popular among the countless more casual guilds out there, who can't always have 10 or 25 people available.
But for now, at least on my realm. It isn't very popular for PuG's.

I'm sure that will change when more people get what they are after from LFR, but then realize they want more. And then they hop on the Flex train.

I don't think it works for pugs, if you get too many who under perform you hit brick walls and those who over perform won't put up with that.

Exactly. There was a very brief window where running HS made sense. I'm not sure why anyone bothers with them at this point.

The only reason my guild runs them is for a quick shot of 150 valor and a potential 516 weapon on an alt.

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Oqueue has become trash, you get people who can't perform as advertised and anyone who can perform leaves after a single wipe. Oqueue just takes all the problems of lfr and puts them in a higher difficulty. Flex is not the magic bullet, it is good for what it is intended to do, raid with more than 10 but less than 25, on a medium pop server the only person I have ever seen calling out LFM flex after the first two weeks was me.

Heroic scenarios are even faster now to valor cap. I've done some where its 5-7 minutes for 100-150 valor for your first toon. There is really nowhere else that you can cap valor that quick.

Flex modes are really popular. It's so easy to form them now on openraid. I don't use oqueue because oqueue you can't screen people as hard. The skill level of players using oqueue seems to be drastically lower than openraid.