Why would the necessary criterion be whether or not soccer will supersede the Red Sox or Celtics in popularity? What difference does that make? Who decided that four (4!!!!) is the magic number of sports, beyond which we simply must not go?

Thanks for pointing this out. This made up criterion is absurd and crafted solely to support their narrative. It's transparent as all hell.

I'll also point out that soccer happens to be the only sport literally the entire world plays, so the fact that MLS isn't the best league in the world with the best players and somehow for that reason, the Revs don't deserve an urban stadium, is also an absolutely batshit crazy argument. Chicago has Fussballgott Bastian Schweinsteiger. LA has fucking Zlatan. DC has Wayne Rooney.

Thanks for pointing this out. This made up criterion is absurd and crafted solely to support their narrative. It's transparent as all hell.

I'll also point out that soccer happens to be the only sport literally the entire world plays, so the fact that MLS isn't the best league in the world with the best players and somehow for that reason, the Revs don't deserve an urban stadium, is also an absolutely batshit crazy argument. Chicago has Fussballgott Bastian Schweinsteiger. LA has fucking Zlatan. DC has Wayne Rooney.

yea, cant get my head around 'only one league can be the Major league'. Presumably that would be the Premier League, which would imply Bayern, Real, Barca and Juve are minor league teams.
Anyway, Krafts, if you're reading this, I'd like you to hire Dan Meis to design a compact 25k stadium by bunker hilll CC, nothing too over the top but a nod to the birthplace of the revolution would be nice. Then I could go for a pint in the tavern at the end of the world and stroll down to see the revs with their fancy designated players (and their new crest)!

yea, cant get my head around 'only one league can be the Major league'. Presumably that would be the Premier League, which would imply Bayern, Real, Barca and Juve are minor league teams.
Anyway, Krafts, if you're reading this, I'd like you to hire Dan Meis to design a compact 25k stadium by bunker hilll CC, nothing too over the top but a nod to the birthplace of the revolution would be nice. Then I could go for a pint in the tavern at the end of the world and stroll down to see the revs with their fancy designated players (and their new crest)!

Seconded.

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Thanks for pointing this out. This made up criterion is absurd and crafted solely to support their narrative. It's transparent as all hell.

I'll also point out that soccer happens to be the only sport literally the entire world plays, so the fact that MLS isn't the best league in the world with the best players and somehow for that reason, the Revs don't deserve an urban stadium, is also an absolutely batshit crazy argument. Chicago has Fussballgott Bastian Schweinsteiger. LA has fucking Zlatan. DC has Wayne Rooney.

But who was making the argument that only when the MLS is the top league in the world the Revs deserve their own urban stadium? MLS will probably never be the top league in the world and that's a very good thing. Look at the Premiere League, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A and the Bundesliga - all of those leagues are very top heavy and predictable.

I hope MLS charts its own course and does not try to emulate the European leagues with everything they do. There are plenty of Euro soccer fan snobs who have hopped on the trendy "follow a European soccer team" bandwagon that thumb their noses at the MLS and constantly say that the league needs to adopt a European soccer calendar (season starts mid-August and runs through mid-May) or the even more foolish promotion and relegation crap.

Here's a question, why do the Revs have two separate fan groups? Why don't the Midnight Riders and Rebellion merge into one large fan group?

The season is fine the way it is. The playoffs for the title are fine, even the franchise system with designated players is fine, salary caps are sensible, but...
I wish MLS had pro/rel. When you know your team can drop out of the league if it's not good, it staves off the kind of complacency that the Revs face now. And even if they do drop down, promotion battles are fun. Pro/rel games bring out faaar more sporting emotion than winning or losing a final.
Anyway, way off topic but pro/rel is far from foolish.

But who was making the argument that only when the MLS is the top league in the world the Revs deserve their own urban stadium? MLS will probably never be the top league in the world and that's a very good thing. Look at the Premiere League, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A and the Bundesliga - all of those leagues are very top heavy and predictable.

DZH.

Quote:

I hope MLS charts its own course and does not try to emulate the European leagues with everything they do. There are plenty of Euro soccer fan snobs who have hopped on the trendy "follow a European soccer team" bandwagon that thumb their noses at the MLS and constantly say that the league needs to adopt a European soccer calendar (season starts mid-August and runs through mid-May) or the even more foolish promotion and relegation crap.

Save pro/rel for r/soccer & r/MLS.

Quote:

Here's a question, why do the Revs have two separate fan groups? Why don't the Midnight Riders and Rebellion merge into one large fan group?

Homophobia and Euro-snobbery. The Rebellion was formed off an ideological split from the Riders, who had initially some members that were homophobic and unwelcoming to various members or expressed discontent with the pride messaging. Many Riders also suffer from Euro snobbery in that, they can be downright rude if you don't know some obscure Euro player or follow a certain league besides MLS. New Riders management has essentially erased that ideology, esp with regards to the homophobia & pride messaging. They've since made it clear that you aren't welcome if you're not willing to be accepting of others/diversity and they also march in Boston Pride (we actually won best marching group a couple years ago). The Riders are a 501c3 and do a bunch of great charitable work, while the Rebellion does not. The Rebels don't really do anything, tbh, and they don't try to. They don't even promote marching in the Pride parade with the Riders. It's the weirdest thing. I was originally a Rebel who marched with the Riders and they welcomed me in (and anyone who wants to walk & sing and be happy, really). I've since switched to the Riders because I believe in their mission, despite having some quibbles with certain members. Now, the only difference is really the charitable work (or lackthereof) and location - Riders are more Boston, Rebels are more Providence.

If it was the best soccer league in the world they would have to expand Gillette Stadium with 80,000+ seats to keep up with the demand. It's not that soccer can't be as popular as the other sports. It's a subpar league (ie 5th to 10th best overall) and because of that, it's a subpar product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruairi

yea, cant get my head around 'only one league can be the Major league'. Presumably that would be the Premier League, which would imply Bayern, Real, Barca and Juve are minor league teams.

Once you are down to 5th (at best) league in your respective sport, you are well into "minor league" territory. If MLS was even on an arguable level close to the other leagues they'd be getting at least 50,000 people per game. Soccer is outrageously popular, but overall there is much better soccer being played in other leagues than MLS. You can't say that about the other 4 sports. If MLS was even a top 2-3 soccer league worldwide (not necessarily #1), then it would still absolutely be lumped in with MLB, NHL, NFL, and NBA as part of the big 5 national sports. However, on a relative competition level compared to the other leagues, the MLS sucks.

Apparently the 2015 "Newcomer of the Year" and MLS MVP wasn't even good enough to maintain a starting role on Juventus. So he was the #1 player in the entire league but not even in the top 11 players on his European team.

I actually had a higher impression of the league BEFORE I started doing more research. The Paw Sox have much more baseball talent than the average MLS team has soccer talent. What would it mean if the Revolution won an MLS Championship? Could we chant "We're top 40!" or is that being too generous?

Theyre thinking of combining the MLS and Liga MX for a North American cup. This would mean a championship combining the best of Mexico, Canada, and North America. Liga MX is already the most watched soccer tournament in America and this combination would immediately add high level competition and legitimacy. Having a North American Cup would be a way to get all the best players in this part of the world competing. Theyre hoping this will be a lasting effect of the FIFA bid. I definitely welcome this with better competition will come a better product.

A collaborative approach would be to shoe-horn a stadium with off-site parking around Wonderland. The NECCO Candy Factory footprint is about the size of Gillette. Have a support building and parking with a bridge connection over the commuter rail to the Wonderland site itself. A parking lot could be just North at the old capped dump (?) and connect with a people mover connection along the commuter rail. There is also old right of ways from Route 1 that could potentially be introduced as a direct hwy connection but environmental issues would definitely be an issue.

Homophobia and Euro-snobbery. The Rebellion was formed off an ideological split from the Riders, who had initially some members that were homophobic and unwelcoming to various members or expressed discontent with the pride messaging. Many Riders also suffer from Euro snobbery in that, they can be downright rude if you don't know some obscure Euro player or follow a certain league besides MLS. New Riders management has essentially erased that ideology, esp with regards to the homophobia & pride messaging. They've since made it clear that you aren't welcome if you're not willing to be accepting of others/diversity and they also march in Boston Pride (we actually won best marching group a couple years ago). The Riders are a 501c3 and do a bunch of great charitable work, while the Rebellion does not. The Rebels don't really do anything, tbh, and they don't try to. They don't even promote marching in the Pride parade with the Riders. It's the weirdest thing. I was originally a Rebel who marched with the Riders and they welcomed me in (and anyone who wants to walk & sing and be happy, really). I've since switched to the Riders because I believe in their mission, despite having some quibbles with certain members. Now, the only difference is really the charitable work (or lackthereof) and location - Riders are more Boston, Rebels are more Providence.

Thanks for the background. They should merge and form the Midnight Rebellion, or the Rebellion Riders.

Are either Fenway Park or the Boston Garden a poor use of land in Boston proper?

Good question, and I don't have a particular answer, other than to observe that both have much higher usage rates than a soccer stadium would have. Each is actively used more than 100 times a year, will a soccer stadium do as well?

Good question, and I don't have a particular answer, other than to observe that both have much higher usage rates than a soccer stadium would have. Each is actively used more than 100 times a year, will a soccer stadium do as well?

Some cities subsidize stadiums because of supposed economic benefits... but last I checked a stadium for even a major sport had about the net economic benefit of a large movie theater. Which is to say some positive benefits, but not really enough to pay for any subsidies in economic terms alone.

I think as long as the taxpayers aren't actually subsidizing stadiums thinking it will be some economic windfall, then I think the owners of the teams and stadiums should just figure out what makes sense from the perspective of economic sustainability in an urban environment with higher land costs and the city (and public) should just stick to figuring out the transportation, zoning and other public interests that go along with keeping the city moving, working, living and actually enjoying the place.

That said I do think that stadiums are the type of thing that make a city a more enjoyable place to live. At least when it is a stadium like Fenway or the Garden which is woven into the urban fabric and not just a stadium surrounded by parking that could go anywhere next to a highway.