Monday, November 02, 2015

In the past couple of decades we’ve seen the rise of one particular explanatory strategy. That strategy recently acquired a name—or possibly it’s had the name for a while and I only just recently noticed. Whatever, I really like the name: Magic Dirt.

The core idea is that one’s physical surroundings—the bricks and mortar of the building you’re in, or the actual dirt you are standing on—emit invisible vapors that can change your personality, behavior, and intelligence.

That’s why, for example, you read so much about “bad schools” or “failing schools.” The thing to be explained is that schools whose students are overwhelmingly non-Asian minorities—blacks and mestizos—get much worse results on academic tests than schools whose students are majority white and East Asian. This has been so for decades, defying even extravagantly expensive efforts to change it, like the Kansas City fiasco of the 1990s.

Parsimonious explanation: innate differences in behavior, intelligence, and personality between the races.

Magical explanation: Bad schools! The bricks and mortar of these schools, the asphalt of their playgrounds, are giving out invisible noxious vapors that enstupidate the kids!

Bob Weissberg tossed and gored the whole “bad schools” flimflam in his 2010 book Bad Students, Not Bad Schools, which I recommend to your attention.

Another aspect of the Magic Dirt theory is the current popularity of economist Raj Chetty‘s researches on social mobility. Analyzing millions of individual tax returns from the 1990s, then the returns of those individuals’ now-adult children fifteen years later, Chetty found there’s more social mobility in some places than in others. Who woulda thunk it? Sample quote:

For children growing up in places like Salt Lake City … the odds of moving from the bottom fifth of the national income distribution to the top fifth are more than 12 percent … In contrast, in cities like Charlotte, North Carolina … a child’s odds of moving from the bottom fifth to the top fifth are less than 5 percent. [The Impacts of Neighborhoods on Economic Opportunity,Brookings Institute, June 1, 2015]

Parsimonious explanation: Those places have different proportions of the various races, so race differences in average behaviors cause different outcomes.

A very cynical person—not me, you understand, but a hypothetical extreme cynic—might surmise that Prof. Chetty’s research is funded by the real-estate industry as part of their plan to reclaim America’s cities for upscale whites by driving out minorities and scattering them to distant towns and suburbs—so they can improve themselves by living on better dirt, you see?

Magic Dirt theory is a key component of immigration romanticism, too. Sure, Mexico and Central America are messed-up places, and presumably their inhabitants played some role in messing them up. If we just move thirty or forty million of those people to the U.S.A., though, our Magic Dirt will transform them into civic-minded Jeffersonian yeomen!

Our hypothetical extreme cynic might again wonder if there isn’t some commercial interest at work behind the scenes there. Central Americans work for very low wages—especially when they’re here illegally and dare not complain.

Magic Dirt: the explanatory power of it is truly wonderful. Perhaps we can use it to elucidate String Theory, or the Mystery of Consciousness.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Higgs boson is implicated somehow…

Simplicity + truth + contempt = effective rhetoric. As Derb illustrates, the core pro-immigration argument really is that stupidly ahistorical and cargo cultist. It is so obviously wrong that it can be accurately dismissed in just two words: Magic Dirt.

143 Comments:

Yet Asians do better in America than they do in Asia. It is magic dirt for them.

I propose a slightly different approach. The American system works for people depending on their own objectives. Why must blacks and mestizos must have the same outcome of whites and Asian? Liberals like to prescribe the same result, but the truth is the non-Asian minorities like their underachieving results and the Liberals seems to prefer it with their general welfare policies. Many Hispanics scrap by with low wage service jobs. Blacks experience long unemployment. It just goes with the territory.

The only field today where Magic Dirt might have validity is in drug rehabilitation. Back during the Vietnam War, the Pentagon was scared that the large percentage of troops hooked on opiates in Southeast Asia would bring ashore a drug epidemic in the United States. But when those troops rotated off duty, they stayed clean of drugs thought to be terminally addictive. It turns out that setting is a key element of addiction. The theory holds true today, which is why many drug rehab sites are located in impossibly posh and scenic locales, or in rural areas if the addict is from an urban area.

Perhaps for immigration, the dirt may too have had magical qualities back when relatively extreme efforts were made to integrate people coming here as Americans, breaking old habits and mindsets. Nowadays, immigrants are looked upon as a source of laundered votes and cheap labor, and integration is actively discouraged. Thus, landing on American dirt and settling into pockets of like-minded migrants has minimal effect. If the Pentagon had taken the addicted troops to place them in rainforests near hostile Vietnamese, no magic dirt (even if American) would have broken old habits and mindsets, and the troops would have remained bound under opium's spell.

The Seattle area must have pretty good Magic Dirt, but no need for any more foreigners to come here, I'll be happy to ship them a bottle of it. Just sprinkle it on the floor of your hut/shack/hovel and your problems will be solved.

"Magic Dirt theory is a key component of immigration romanticism, too. Sure, Mexico and Central America are messed-up places, and presumably their inhabitants played some role in messing them up."

He's a bit off here, with regard to official USG policy and liberal views. Both our government and the elites believe firmly--FIRMLY--that crime in Central America, and to a lesser extent Mexico, is due to the United States' bad habit of deporting those areas' peaceable citizens after they learned criminal ways in our evil cities. For example:

PBS: "During El Salvador's brutal civil war 30 years ago, hundreds of thousands of people fled to the United States, where some joined dangerous Latino gangs for protection and a livelihood. Soon after, many of these gang members were deported back to El Salvador, establishing a new and threatening presence in their home country."

This is a very rock-solid view among government officials, academics and the elite in general. Basically, Los Angeles did it.

Perhaps we could use this Magic Dirt to change our useless minorities who put strains on our welfare safety net and transmorph them into something useful like fossil fuels. Who on the Left could complain about a new and abundent supply of renewable energy. We could call it post-natal abortion fossil fuel energy.

One problem I have with this screed is that there *have* been successful all-black schools. Those schools, of course, taught in the "old school" style, and were (If I understand correctly) at least as tough or tougher on their students than most schools were on white students at the time. Call it the "no excuses" approach.

Thomas Sowell wrote about one moderately famous one down the street from the SCOTUS building (whose name I can't recall); by itself it produced a significant chunk of the successful blacks in the 20th century. Few black schools emulated it, and the school's successes mostly stopped after they watered down their approach to discipline.

Opposing the "black kids can't learn the way white kids can" narrative doesn't mean believing "black kids can't learn", it means believing "black kids *can* learn the way white kids can; you just have to treat them the way you treat white kids". And by this I mean actually believing that behavior problems are the fault of the student, and disciplining them accordingly.

Black author Shelby Steele wrote about the problems of lost moral authority in white America, and he considers it a reason why so many white liberals seem to imagine that going easy on blacks for their behavior issues is somehow helping them: they don't actually believe that, they just believe that going easy on blacks will help them distance themselves from "the bad old racists". How it affects actual black people doesn't even enter their minds; their own social/moral posture is all they care about.

One problem I have with this screed is that there *have* been successful all-black schools. Those schools, of course, taught in the "old school" style, and were (If I understand correctly) at least as tough or tougher on their students than most schools were on white students at the time. Call it the "no excuses" approach.

One problem I have with your screed is that you completely missed the point and didn't understand his argument anyway.

Reminds me of those cases that occasionally filter through to the west about some animal or another- a cow or a goat usually - that's been killed or arrested for being a witch in disguise. Apparently it's a believable excuse to bandy about when a man is caught doing dirty deeds to these farmyard animals.

One problem I have with this screed is that there *have* been successful all-black schools. Those schools, of course, taught in the "old school" style, and were (If I understand correctly) at least as tough or tougher on their students than most schools were on white students at the time. Call it the "no excuses" approach.

Give it up, Leo. None of your arguments are anything new. The conservatives have been pushing them since the early 80s. And they have universally failed. Not unlike Detroit, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, etc.

Neocons take it a step further. They believe you can create magic dirt. Just sprinkling the blood of sacrificed America troops on the ground and presto! Magic dirt! See, Iraq failed because the dirt gods weren't given enough blood to enchant the Iraqi soil.

Considering that I kicked his ass badly on his woeful ignorance of Pearl Harbor and military history, you should probably understand that Sowell, while a smart, well-educated, and admirable man, simply isn't in my league.

Look, no one denies that if you cream off the black elite, raise them in white culture, and turn them loose in white culture, they will do very well. The combination of 115 IQs with solid values and time preferences has a high probability of success. What you don't seem to grasp is that is like collecting only MENSA members, providing them with elite educations, sending them off to succeed at MIT and Caltech, then pretending that doing the same will work for the average white kid.

It won't. And the less you imbue them with white or Asian culture and education, the less success you will have with even the black cognitive elite.

White Knight Leo #0368 - seems to me the root of black America (and white America, and Canada, and Europe and Australia's) problems is a lack of patriarchy.

Old-school pre-welfare black Americans lived in proper nuclear families, where Dad could knock some sense into the kids and make sure Mum wasn't bringing strange men into the house.

Then the welfare state took on the role of substitute Daddy, which was a stake through the heart of black families, and the sexual revolution and easy divorce just piled dirt on the corpse.

Same thing is happening to the white family, only slower.

Putting this into a broader context, why did we put Patriarchy in the corner?

Because we foolishly gave women the vote. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but after a century of female enfranchisement it's time we pulled the plug on that experiment.

I love women. They're super great. But they have no more clue about sustaining a civilisation than children or cats do. Women are sensuous, emotional, fuzzy-logic, short-term thinkers. Giving them half the say in electing our leaders has brought democracy to its knees. They consistently choose goodfeels over hard reals. That's why we now have gargantuan welfare states, are drowning in debt, and are swarming with immigrants.

Like any responsible loving husband, I would never let my wife play with power tools. So why should I entrust her and other sweethearts like her to choose who runs the much more dangerous tool that is government?

That's like driving at 80mph down the motorway and then getting my cat to hold the wheel. It's madness.

Assuming any form of mass democracy survives this century, it won't involve letting people who think horoscopes are real and the Kardashians are "news" anywhere near the ballot box.

We should have a separate, but equal set of elections just for women, where they can vote which politician has the kindest eyes or the fluffiest pet or whatever while men get on with the real business.

It's an anomaly for a reason: they took a different approach from other places. Obviously the schooling methods in place in Detroit are worthless; how could they not be, to get such results? Detroit is a failure on many levels, and their awful public schools serve to trap the kids who attend them.

I'm not arguing for "magic dirt". I think it's just as bunk as anyone here. And the school Sowell wrote about was a poor school as well; funding wasn't the reason why its students did well. They did well because the teachers cared enough to actually be tough on them. They treated the students like Asian parents treat their kids. And it worked.

Obviously, employing such methods require people who believe in them. And such people aren't running our school systems or propagating educational theories. So the methods that *actually work* are unlikely to be employed in the schools where they are needed most, because they go completely against the grain of current educational fads.

Lacking such people, you can't employ those methods, and the result is that black kids don't learn. They stay "little barbarians", as Reagan called children, because neither their parents nor their schools were able to do the work to civilize them.

Black news pundits such as Charles Blow of The New York Times constantly call for “an honest conversation about race,” but they don’t mean it. Any public intellectual who ventures to start that conversation is automatically branded a racist. Hey, I couldn’t even have a conversation at a private dinner on the merits of speaking standard English with three college professors whose life-work centers on race. They had a melt-down and used a proxy (who wasn’t even there) to slander me on the Internet.

It won't matter anymore. Nobody gives a shit if the 'talented tenth' was actually a realistic assessment or a naively optimistic pipe dream.

Blacks will overwhelmingly continue to occupy a semi-feral space that they occasionally jump out of and burn down a waffle house or a walmart and rape a white girl.

Some of the more clean cut ones will go on to do great things in television science, medicine, and international relations.

And when whites realize that a giant sewer sending the world's refuse into Memphis and New York and Chicago and Atlanta and Detroit and Miami is not condusive to a society that aspires to being more than a violent shit stain of a hellhole, then they will be firmly segregated back into plots and forced under threat of extreme violence to 'act white', or deported entirely, and nobody is going to give a shit about what might have worked once-upon-a-time or if it's unfair that we're throwing the occasional baby out with the bathwater.

Frankly, if the talented tenth were that talented, they would have been better off spending the last half century clamping down on their own lot and fighting tooth and nail to ensure that the world's other billions of people didn't usurp their position as favored minority. Oops.

Sailer, Sobran, Brimelow, Coulter.... I'm sure I'm forgetting many. Some wrote for NR/NRO more often than others, of course. But NR/NRO has disassociated itself from quite a few people over the years, with the primary reason usually being too-frank discussion of race/immigration.

Wasn't it always "racism" if a person desired to date, court, marry and have kids with a mate of his own race? Why wasn't every "anti-racist" zealot shamed into silence by asking if a preference for same-race marriage wasn't the same as the preference for hiring or renting to someone of the same race? (Yes, I see the white gals dating black guys, and I figure it's their way of rating higher on the SJW scale as a badge of "honor," or just kicking their daddies, but it's hardly the norm even in these absurd times.)

There was never a bright line between race preference in business and race preference in one's personal life, yet we'd hopefully realize that demanding men and women mix and match randomly (or even preferentially, via affirmative action, for the minority "candidate") would be met with ridicule and utter contempt.

If it be racism (or better, Derbyshire's race-awareness) for me as a Caucasian to find my (Caucasian) wife most attractive during courting, then I gladly stand for it and would defend the prerogative by any means necessary.

@55 - That's a relief. I've been reading Taki since I was a wee lad, swiping my uncle's copy of the Spectator. The man is a freaking legend, and I've never seen him act like a knave. Happy to hear your news!

James Kunstler is just pissy because the Culture of Critique Scolding his fellow Red Sea Pedestrians perfected on hajnal-line Whites has now metastasized out of (Jewish) control. I noticed he is pulling a Natalie Portman w/r to the grievance industry. I shed six million tears for him.

"Old-school pre-welfare black Americans lived in proper nuclear families, where Dad could knock some sense into the kids and make sure Mum wasn't bringing strange men into the house."

A cuckservative canard. Sure blacks were "married" at a higher rate (on paper) just like their rates of illegitimacy were lower (on paper) but that doesn't mean blacks were anymore civilized then they are now. When the Federal Leviathan started its program of Forced Integration blacks immediately went on a rape, robbery, and assault spree directed at hapless whites in schools and in the streets. You think whites abandoned the homes, neighborhoods, and cities they and they fore fathers built and maintained, worth trillions in dollars and priceless in social capital, because they didn't like people with dark skin? No they fled for their lives from out of control blacks. This was before blacks were supposedly corrupted by the Great Soiety. It wasn't "black fathers" that kept blacks in check, whites protected, and civilization possible. It was Jim Crow, Sundown laws, and common sense discrimination.

Y'know, Mike Smith, nothing is more irritating than an moron who thinks he's clever or has noticed something everyone else has been aware of for years, and want to ride it like a cheap Thai whore. do yourslelf a favor and gain about 20 IQ points before commenting.

@40 Steve, the Dark Ninja of MockeryThat's like driving at 80mph down the motorway and then getting my cat to hold the wheel."Not bad for a quadruped. Don't drive angry, don't drive angry."

"Old-school pre-welfare black Americans lived in proper nuclear families, where Dad could knock some sense into the kids and make sure Mum wasn't bringing strange men into the house."

A cuckservative canard. Sure blacks were "married" at a higher rate (on paper) just like their rates of illegitimacy were lower (on paper) but that doesn't mean blacks were anymore civilized then they are now. When the Federal Leviathan started its program of Forced Integration blacks immediately went on a rape, robbery, and assault spree directed at hapless whites in schools and in the streets. You think whites abandoned the homes, neighborhoods, and cities they and they fore fathers built and maintained, worth trillions in dollars and priceless in social capital, because they didn't like people with dark skin? No they fled for their lives from out of control blacks. This was before blacks were supposedly corrupted by the Great Soiety. It wasn't "black fathers" that kept blacks in check, whites protected, and civilization possible. It was Jim Crow, Sundown laws, and common sense discrimination.

A number of American presidential hopefuls are expected to visit Israel next month for a conference on foreign and defense policy.

Organizers say that several candidates have already confirmed their participation, while others are currently considering coming to Israel in person or participating via videoconference, but refused to provide any specifics

I'm not arguing for "magic dirt". I think it's just as bunk as anyone here. And the school Sowell wrote about was a poor school as well; funding wasn't the reason why its students did well. They did well because the teachers cared enough to actually be tough on them. They treated the students like Asian parents treat their kids. And it worked.

You're just exchanging Magic Dirt for Magic Teachers, Magic Methods, Magic Outcomes, Magic Whatever. The wider point is that there's no "magic" you can use to turn people into something they're not. To some extent, people's peers and environment influence their thinking, but that's far more limited than we like to think. In the context of schools, it means you have to control the peer group by cherry-picking your students or using nine great ones to pull up one poor one.

Interesting results - http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/11/daily-chart-8These are British school tests, which are disassociated in ways that broad-based US tests are not, because of course the ethnic mix there is different. The US, in any of the standard Federal or State test regimes, does not get this detailed as to national origins.And there seems to be a very rapid gap-closing phenomenon going on over there that is not apparent in the US. Some of this is to be expected - Indians and Bangladeshis also perform well in the US (the well known internet personality Razib Khan is Bangladeshi). But in particular the "Black African" performance is interesting, in that it has lately reached "white" performance levels. "Black Caribbean" performance is staying quite low however. I would be interested in hearing explanations. I have a couple - that the "Black African" population is highly self selected, and perhaps increasingly so. The other is that white performance is actually falling somewhat (as seen in recent international PISA scores), so some of the catch-up may not represent an improvement.

As for "magic dirt" - probably not, but in several ways there are "magic friends".There is a great deal of research on "peer effects" on school performance, and it is indeed real, there is such an effect. Several generations of careful analysts from Coleman to Hoxby (she went on to other things about a decade ago, I have not followed the publications since) have made an airtight case.

It will not close "the gap", even if correctly exploited, but intelligent use should lead to significantly better results in most places. However, an intelligently designed educational policy to make the most of the "peer effect" is anathema to the ideology of the educational establishment.

It would require "mining" minority populations of talented prospects, to be distributed in high performing peer groups that sufficiently outnumber the newcomers so as to retain and determine the prevailing cultural atmosphere. Not 9:1, probably, more like 6:1 or 7:1, if one is limiting oneself to selected prospects. Such an engineered selection/distribution policy hasn't been tried, officially (one hears something about unofficial stuff going on though), but I think it should be.

Self-selection through vouchers and charters also works, to a degree but (probably) not as efficiently (ask me about California charters for poor/minority students).

Some people seem to have bought the lies that blacks used to be so much better in the past. When was that? Was it when they were the White Egyptians? How about when they were Beethoven? Beethoven wasn't a gangster mang.

Yeah, its bullshit. Lincoln was a liar, and everything about blacks is a lie. Back in the day, the North had sundown laws for any free blacks to get out of town by sundown, or else they would disappear forever. The Whites in the North hated niggers more than the boys in the South, cause the North had free negroes who weren't kept locked up and were known for things like rape and murder. Shocking isn't it? Who could imagine a free black rapist and murderer? They're one of the good ones. Like O.J. Simpson or Jello Man Cosby.

The Abolitionist Movement was extremely popular with small Extreme Evangelical Groups based in places like New York City. They're some Magic Dirt there boy.

Harriet Tubman's Underground Railroad ran all the way from the Deep South directly to a boat in Canada to take them anyplace else. They weren't welcome in New England you see.

History. A pack of lies approved by the Government and made by liars who make shit up and distort the Truth to fit a narrative that completely differs from observable reality. Brought to you by fake money. Its like money except it puts you into permanent debt slavery. Thank Lincoln. And a greedy lying banker.

"Magic Dirt theory is a key component of immigration romanticism, too. Sure, Mexico and Central America are messed-up places, and presumably their inhabitants played some role in messing them up."

He's a bit off here, with regard to official USG policy and liberal views. Both our government and the elites believe firmly--FIRMLY--that crime in Central America, and to a lesser extent Mexico, is due to the United States' bad habit of deporting those areas' peaceable citizens after they learned criminal ways in our evil cities. For example:

PBS: "During El Salvador's brutal civil war 30 years ago, hundreds of thousands of people fled to the United States, where some joined dangerous Latino gangs for protection and a livelihood. Soon after, many of these gang members were deported back to El Salvador, establishing a new and threatening presence in their home country."

This is a very rock-solid view among government officials, academics and the elite in general. Basically, Los Angeles did it.----

This is just more of the same old lefty blame America for everything possible.

Actually the mess in Central America is partly our fault or rather the US Government's fault. During the Cold War the CIA and KGB were playing a chess game in the Americas for control of the hemisphere. We would overthrow any governments who weren't pro-capitalist and they would overthrow governments who weren't socialists. Its extremely profitable for arms dealers to have constant civil wars where poorly trained armies of unmotivated troops need a technical advantage to win. Except for Pinochet in Argentina, not a single stable government was actually set up by the CIA. Some say it was a continuation of the Monroe Doctrine, and some call it Yankee Imperialism.Actually its a steady stream of buyers for arms dealers with war surplus equipment that the Pentagon won't buy and the reason there is a steady supply of bananas at your local Grocery Store. So, Support General Chiquita and buys some bananas for America, he has vision!

Latin America was a lousy arms market for most of the 20th century. For a while there, from @ 1900-1914 it was more or less lucrative as several of the bigger countries had economic booms -Chile, Argentina and Brazil, so they armed against each other by buying capital ships from Britain and the US. But the moment passed and for most of the period we are talking about they used cheap surplus weapons from the great wars. And the US didn't get far in the weapons markets there, being dominated by the Euros. As for Central America, even more so. As arms markets go these were convenience-store scale. And very little of high tech. As for bananas, back in the 1900-1930s there was some idea of riches from resources out of these places, but the boom of the 1940's-60's - elsewhere - made pretty much everyone lose interest. The banana wars continued merely as a Cold War theatre. Smedley Butler wasn't entirely wrong, just incomplete.

Oh come now. Is there really a market so small you can't or won't go there? Somebody must be making some clams selling those Glocks to homeboys having gang wars in the inner city near you. Its not as lucrative as the MultiBillion Dollar Drug Trade they sell on the street, but are you saying no one would sell guns to these new Indians?

About those magical schools. If it seems to good it is. There's cherry picking going on on several levels as well as self selection and none of that gives honest results.

It starts with parents who care enough and have enough on the ball to get their kids in the schools or the students are selected for their ability. Maybe not academic but self control etc.

Next stage is the school itself and it will drop kids who don't behave like a hot rock. It will drop parents who do not follow up. It then by the end of the year has a pretty good looking crop. The next year is better most of the parents and kids have been trained. New ones learn or are out.

If a kid won't make it he's gone. It's not magic. It works for the talented tenth and maybe their siblings. Not much more. But you have to monitor the families as well.

If there were a magic bullet that would make every kid like the ones from Lake Woebegone we'd use it. There isn't.

Any school could be pretty good if you make them pay for it. The main problem with public schools is that they're mandatory and most of the pupils don't have to pay to be there. If parents had to pay out of pocket to send their kids to school they would care whether they go or not. You wouldn't need truant officers at all if they were private and you had to pay.But lets face it. Public school is not really about education. The people who started public education were not like Plato who wanted to explore and explain the World through philosophy and interest students in the study of nature and life.Public education was started by businessmen who wanted an educated workforce who was smart enough to work but didn't question authority and were socialized to be cogs in an industrial machine. Cybernetics was started not as a computer science, but as a way to formally study a system of work and production. The flowcharts used today by computer programmers were designed to describe the functions of workplaces like factories, that optimized productivity by increasing efficiency by eliminating unnecessary costs and labor.Public education today is just free day care for most parents, and for the Government it is a way to instill the values they feel are necessary for good citizenship through forced attendance, mandatory lessons, and time management. The history is taught to fit the state's political values, and the courses are meant to socialize the students in the ethos that the administrators wish to instill in their captive audiences.If you learn anything, you're either really perceptive or not paying attention at all, because the school day is just set up to get you used to waking up early, doing boring repetitive tasks and obeying inefficient and mostly incompetent supervisors. Which is a microcosm of most workplaces today, in both the public and private sectors.

Derb belongs back in Merry Ol' England, not the US. Deporting all immigrants means deporting all immigrants. He can take his Asian wife with him."

Where did I call him a cuck? I called him a dirty immigrant and a rice burner, not a cuck. I stand by my desire to deport him and his Asian wife. But then I would deport everyone whose paternal line was not in the US in 1800. I would also require all papists to move to Maryland or Louisiana.

Rusty you must have been born yesterday or just arrived to this country. The Government doesn't want people off of welfare. This is a voter plantation where they grow a permanent underclass of dependent idiots who rely on the Government for necessities of life to ensure their loyalty and buy their votes. Its bread and circuses, except its cheaper and not as entertaining. Its detrimental effects are becoming obvious due to the enormous growth from an ill-advised and insane open borders policy which is guaranteed to bankrupt the entire Government probably sooner rather than later due to the previously unwise Libertarian Fantasy of Offshoring Jobs and Cheap Labor which has reduced the tax and consumer base to unsustainably low levels.

"Where did I call him a cuck? I called him a dirty immigrant and a rice burner, not a cuck. I stand by my desire to deport him and his Asian wife. But then I would deport everyone whose paternal line was not in the US in 1800. I would also require all papists to move to Maryland or Louisiana. "

SJWs aren't the only ones that double-down.

So... Does Vox's family have to leave? Or do you consider the redskinned savages americans?

Nate Vox lives in Europe or what's left of it. He's in Italy I believe, the Motherland of my Roman ancestors who used to spend their days at the Coliseum watching spectacles that will probably never again be replicated due to the enormous costs that bankrupted the Greatest Empire in Human History.

Is Derbyshire not a dirty immigrant with an Asian wife?We can allow Vox's red savage kin to continue to roam their reservations. We should also encourage their drunkenness. But no, they are not Americans. They belong to what ever tribe of Asian colonists they claim to be, Sioux, Navajo, whatever. Now, Nate. Retract your lie or admit you are not a man.

"We can allow Vox's red savage kin to continue to roam their reservations. We should also encourage their drunkenness. But no, they are not Americans. They belong to what ever tribe of Asian colonists they claim to be, Sioux, Navajo, whatever. Now, Nate. Retract your lie or admit you are not a man."

Sugartits... I retract nothing. By bringing up his Asian wife and responding to the comment thread in the manner you did you were siding with those that called Derb a cuck. You still are.

Tell you what, guys. I'll raise you one: Given your premise, and since I come from a family that came here before the Revolution, I get to tell you guys what to do. And I tell you to shut the hell up... or you're out. We agreed?

Binary thinkers are the dullest sort to have an argument with. Those who see race in everything are just as bad as those who "don't see color at all." Try to cultivate a sense of proportion, and of perspective. It'll do you well.

Nate, do you know what a cuckold is? Its a guy that lets someone sleep with his wife. Derb miscegenated with an Asian woman, and that might be a race traitor or a rice picker, but its not a cuckold.We call guys like Senor Stupido Boosh a cuck because he sold out his country and let it get screwed by Mexico. He cucked the country to Mexico, the homeland of his little wife that looks like the maid at Motel 6.

The way some guys interpret deporting "all immigrants," I get an image of two guys holding muskets, standing alone in the middle of an empty USA, comparing family trees.

We try to talk about just-maybe-possible methods of saving civilization, and they insist on sperging it up to impossible extremes. The talk of rolling back history to 1800 or whatever is just stupid. Might be a fun thought experiment when you're three sheets to the wind around the bullshitting fire and no one will remember it clearly in the morning, but as brilliant as "Magic Dirt" is rhetorically, "deport guys like Derb" is that stupid.

Tell you what, guys. I'll raise you one: Given your premise, and since I come from a family that came here before the Revolution, I get to tell you guys what to do. And I tell you to shut the hell up... or you're out. We agreed?

My Dutch ancestors that came to America in the late 1600s say all y'all can just go to hell...

Yeah look lets not lose all sense of proportion. No one wants everyone who doesn't have an ancestor who was here in 1776 to go home, but lets face it there are people here for "a better life" that are just dead weight or stealing jobs from Americans. H1B visa guys from India may not seem like an existential threat, but if you just lost a good paying job at Disney where you were forced to train an Indian to take your job or lose your severance pay, then they have to go home. I'll be happy to hand them a one-way ticket and show them the business end of my shotgun and wish them well for the rest of their lives in their homeland.

Joshua Sinistar, just about everyone here is agreed on that point. So why the rhetorical foaming at the mouth? I am anti-immigration, but I am not Anti-Immigration. There is a proportion where it is manageable and beneficial. Just like there was indeed a time when racism as a social problem needed to be addressed. Problem is, the West seems to always go to extremes of over-compensation at every turn.

Yeah look this racism thing is bullshit all of it. Not wanting people who are not like you and have no interest in being like you to get out of your country is not at all unusual. Anybody trying to go to Mexico without permission is arrested and jailed until they leave. This bullshit about open borders is strictly a White country only thing, pushed by jews who have some bullshit Holocaust story. How the United States of America who fought Hitler is somehow involved in this narrative probably explains why jews are hated and reviled universally around the world for their ridiculous claims and complete lack of gratitude or loyalty to their "friends". I don't care if these people are actually being genocided by Germans, I see no responsibility for America to have to take or protect anyone who does not contribute to our society for any reason whatsoever. Humanitarianism and charity is really sweet, but trying to do it behind my back and against my will is not charity.

No, it's not "all of it" bullshit. Sense of perspective, remember? History? What it has become is bullshit. These days the mere accusation of racism is all the content anyone needs to verify the accusation. Pure circular logic. But it has not always been so. Whites have not always bent over backwards to give their heritage away to those of other races. Yes, they have been more willing than just about any other society, but they sure as hell weren't "colorblind" idiots.

I don't remember any time in History where White people were willing to mix with other races. This whole miscegenation thing started as a propaganda campaign by the media near the end of the 1960s with a sudden rush of movies and TV shows where blacks were suddenly full members of society and it was completely wrong to exclude them in any way. It didn't reflect at all any of the attitudes at the time and was obviously a media campaign for the purposes of propaganda.

It starts with parents who care enough and have enough on the ball to get their kids in the schools or the students are selected for their ability. Maybe not academic but self control etc.

Bingo. Magic dirt, magic teachers, magic money, none of that is real. But what is real are magic genetics. Every race has a right side of the Bell Curve. Find a way to only allow the kids of reasonably smart, hard-working, long-time-preference parents into your school, and regardless of race, you'll have excellent students. But that's only because you filtered out the lower 50 or 80 or 90% - whatever it is for that particular group. Which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it's not one you can scale up. It only applies to the small fraction that's already succeeding.

We say things like "deport all immigrants" because if you say "some" or "most," you get bogged down in the hunt for exceptions and endless discussions of which ones are "good" (Filipinos FTW!!!). Saying "all" lets you get on with the business at hand, even though you don't really expect to root out every single one. Set a high goal and achieve some of it.

Once you get the populace on board enough to force the issue, then you can start with the low-hanging fruit: illegals, because they're illegal; and guest workers, because you don't even have to deport them, just don't renew their visas. Kill chain migration -- even some Republicans not named Trump or Santorum have signed onto that -- and a handful of other easy wins.

By the time you get rid of tens of millions of illegals and guest workers and stop the inflow, I'm guessing there will be enough of a labor shortage that no one's going to be in a rush to kick out 7th-generation Germans, no matter how much some asspie says, "But-but-but- you said all immigrants!" But that's just me.

I don't think Trump will be the candidate. The donors who control the party are already plotting how to rig states so he'll drop out. I'm also sure that people are talking to him directly and trying to deal with him so they can buy him off. Trump has a shitload of Real Estate Loans which went underwater when the Real Estate Market imploded, so they're probably trying to cut deals to forgive loans or reduce interest to get him to gracefully bow out.This GOP field is simply lousy though. They're trying to push that little turd Rubio now, and that'll toss the election to Hillary right there if they nominate him. Cruz isn't much better. His happy talk about more H1B visas after that Disney fiasco will sink him like the Titanic right after the campaign starts.The GOP has nobody that really appeals to voters. Ben Carson will destroy their party and they'll never elect anyone ever again and cease to exist. If they nominate this guy and he starts talking about race which Hillary will force him to do, his views are going to turn out like fake Republican Colin Powell the Affirmative Action General that voted for Obama.

A cuckservative canard. Sure blacks were "married" at a higher rate (on paper) just like their rates of illegitimacy were lower (on paper) but that doesn't mean blacks were anymore civilized then they are now.

Actually, yes, they were more civilized. So was the average white back then too. Culture does have an impact. Problem is, we being able to occasionally follow cultural rules was good enough qualification to make cultural rules.

@114 Josh Tell you what, guys. I'll raise you one: Given your premise, and since I come from a family that came here before the Revolution, I get to tell you guys what to do. And I tell you to shut the hell up... or you're out. We agreed?

My Dutch ancestors that came to America in the late 1600s say all y'all can just go to hell...---

@116 Joshua Sinistar Yeah look lets not lose all sense of proportion. No one wants everyone who doesn't have an ancestor who was here in 1776 to go home, but lets face it there are people here for "a better life" that are just dead weight or stealing jobs from Americans. H1B visa guys from India may not seem like an existential threat, but if you just lost a good paying job at Disney where you were forced to train an Indian to take your job or lose your severance pay, then they have to go home. I'll be happy to hand them a one-way ticket and show them the business end of my shotgun and wish them well for the rest of their lives in their homeland.---

Most of those guys go home anyway. I don't think you'll have to get out ol' Trudy to make the point.

Cail Corishev, I am here to bog you.Bog bog bog. Because the idea is stupid. Desiring an absurd extreme of a more or less defensible policy is exactly that, absurd. It's like saying that you want to be free to have guns, and then insist on giving loaded weapons to toddlers.Or being against drugs, and advocating a ban on surgical anaesthetics. Or, in this case, in a war, defining your enemies so broadly that you have no friends at all. This sort of thing fails both as rhetoric and dialectic, to quote our host, and it fails as strategy.

There’s no magic dirt. It’s culture. Someone needs to make an algorithm that finds the right combination of ass kicking and cultural influence required to make a decent individual. I find the broad brush strokes regarding race can’t be applied on the micro level. Too many sharp cookies in SOF and in the intelligence disciplines who are patriots and also minorities. I’ve still got my dad’s high school math books from the 50’s – they’re light years ahead of what I got in the 80s for the same grades, and my math books were considerably more advanced than what my kids had. In the bad old days they had the corporal punishment, and if the teacher said you were acting up in class, chances are that you were going to get a licking by your parents too. Fast forward, and now if you study, you’re “being too white” and the MSM, MTV and BET telling blacks that they can make it if they get into MLB, NFL or the NBA or even better than that they can probably have a career in Gansta Rap…but not to worry, if all that fails, Whitey wronged some ancestor of yours and owes you money and a nice place to live, you’re a victim anyway, nothing is your fault. What’s happening to the blacks reminds me a lot of what the PA and Arab world does to the Palestinians: Keep them poor, angry and stupid – and provide them with a dogma and enemy.

During some of my counterterrorism training, we dissected how you build a terrorist. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Maoist, Marxist, Islamist, the recipe is basically the same thing, but the salient point is that the basic training is complete by about eight years of age. To break somebody out of this, you have to expose them to some significant/traumatic emotional event. Blow them up, shoot them a few times, kill their family in front of them, that kind of thing. We don’t do that to people, we just had immigration caps and the subsequent generations fell in on the culture. These people that think we can import hordes from the third world without major upheaval are extremely foolish.

Out of Africa Theory: The first known historical instance of racist blacks driving out the entire race of whites. After all, Africa was supposed to be some kind of paradisaical Eden back then, so why would the whites want to leave voluntarily? Ergo, definitely a prime example of typical black racism.

BTW, it may have worked then, but only because whites weren't as technically advanced as we have since become. Of course, now we must contend with Obama's black-lives-matter brown shirts. It's long past time for whites to organize an effective resistance, lest the Affirmative Action Pustule finds some way to burn down the Reichstag, declare martial law, and suspend elections forever.

@137 George of the Jungle Out of Africa Theory: The first known historical instance of racist blacks driving out the entire race of whites. After all, Africa was supposed to be some kind of paradisaical Eden back then, so why would the whites want to leave voluntarily? Ergo, definitely a prime example of typical black racism. ---

Didn't I read once on this website how that theory of every one came from Africa is not true?

It's both true and not true. the cultural Marxist part is a lie because Africa's genetic diversity is archaic plus introgression. Universal descent is false because stabilization theory. However the two or more original ape-pig hybridization events came from Africa. The two we know of are gorilla and human. Chimps are the altered bonobo parent population. Gorillas chimps and humans all interbred.