Thomas, I don't practice or understand any of the things Omar listed as 'internal', but you seem to be making a tagential point:-

Just because those things can't be measured objectively, does that automatically mean they can't be taught or that there is no value in discussing them ?

If not, what's your point ?

It really is tangential. My point is that if you build your exercise regimen on something that can not be evaluated, you will never be able to confidently say that your regimen is better that any other regimen.

This is what I really think: those things that Omar listed as "internal" CAN be measured. They can be measured by measuring the performance of the athlete that trained under that particular regimen. But to confidently measure the performance you need a venue and you need rules of engagement. Occasional skirmishes on boats on the Red River are not enough :). For some aspects of "internal" arts there is a venue, sport competition. Whether it's Shui Jiao, San Da, Judo, JJ, MMA, whatever. Bring out a stable of sport fighters that all trained silk reeling. I'm sure that when they start cleaning out the competitions, silk reeling will become a legitimate training method. Untill then it's just another idiocyncracy that may or may not work.

My main point that is not tangential is that the internal/external dichotomy is artificial.

Bring out a stable of sport fighters that all trained silk reeling. I'm sure that when they start cleaning out the competitions, silk reeling will become a legitimate training method. Untill then it's just another idiocyncracy that may or may not work.

1) By Omar's definition 'silk reeling' is external

2) A stable of fighters trained in what you call 'internal' but omar would call 'external' exercises who cleaned up in San Shou/San Da has already occurred on at least two continents.

My main point that is not tangential is that the internal/external dichotomy is artificial.

I chatted to my Tai Chi teacher today about the distinction between internal and external. He agreed that sports like boxing and other 'external' martial arts display internal characteristics (as per Kidspatula's post). I also spoke for a little while about the softness, calmness and exposive movements of grappling (you can't stay rigid for half an hour).

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I chatted to my Tai Chi teacher today about the distinction between internal and external. He agreed that sports like boxing and other 'external' martial arts display internal characteristics (as per Kidspatula's post). I also spoke for a little while about the softness, calmness and exposive movements of grappling (you can't stay rigid for half an hour).

Tbh, your Tai Chi instructor sounds like he things TCC is all about relaxation (i.e. not doing anything too explosive or strenuous). I'm glad you're enjoying it, but from what I've read, he's not teaching it martially. Take his opinions on martial arts with a grain of salt.