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Originally posted by bookworm438

I'm betting the virality and hype plays a factor, but I don't think that's the cause.

I think the biggest problem people have today is that they are trying to reclaim that feeling they got from their first MMO, whether that's EQ, WoW, whatever. While you can get feelings similar to your first MMO (honeymoon period), eventually you realize that this game isn't your first MMO.

I'm willing to bet that if you made an exact copy of someone's first MMO, called it something else, and just updated the graphics, they still wouldn't be able to play for more than a month or two.

I just don't buy that argument. My first 2 MMOs were ok for me, my 3rd, EQ1, I loved, played for a long time, then my 4th, DAoC I loved even more, my all time favorite. Several MMOs later, I played WoW for a while and really enjoyed that.

I've gone back to EQ and daoc and enjoyed long stints there, longer than I spend in any new game released today. The main reason I don't still play daoc is because they changed it drastically with an expansion (TOA), so it is not the same. I did go back for a year or so when they had a classic server. I also can't stand the movement in that game compared to modern games, but I put up with it when there was a non ToA server because the game was just awesome.

I did do the progression server in EQ1 for a good 6+ months, probably would have stayed longer, but went on vacation, and a month later, just had no desire to log on. Had a blast though. I would absolutely love a graphics upgrades of both those games.

I've actually been tempted to start fresh on a normal server in EQ1. Probably will once I have more free time to start it up.

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Players hyping something is totally diffrent than studio's. Darkfall is a good example of this. They were happy with the Steam Greenlit, then went back to buisness (beta). The players themselves went crazy. So fan hype is diffrent than developer hype. Would you rather have developers working on their game (like Darfall) or would you rather have them hyping that game (like GW2)?

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

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How dare you call GW2 and D3 overhyped and all and point that out and...

Yeah, same with D3, got a refund on GW2 though. Over-rated and over-hyped gets dule quick. When you pay for something you don't even realize it hasn't lived up to your standerds quickly like a sub game which helps to keep a 'it was alright' feel until you realize "Wait.... I never even play it or have a desire to play it again" feel.

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I'm not sure that the average person knows what ennui means but I gurantee that dissatisfaction would have been a better choice to get your point across to the average reader.

That being said I think that hype and virality both have some truth behind them. Like the old saying every rumor has some truth behind it, hype does as well. Gamers hype a game because they are interested in it's success and want others to be interested as well. I'm not sure that hype is a bad thing because it gets the game's name out there for others to check out. There are many games that should be more hyped but aren't hyped enough. Gamers just want to be entertained but can't be if they never hear about a game. If hype introduced a gamer to their favorite game that they would have otherwise overlooked then it is being used correctly. If it used by companies to increase their initial sales before gamers learn that they have a bought terd with a fresh coat of paint, then hype is being used incorrectly. Either way hype is not always a bad thing. Let companies and people hype all they like and let the gamers make the choice on rather to buy a game or not.

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My impression is that the not so savvy marketeers are usually not marketeers in this industry.

Often I saw lead devs or producers who didn't know when to shut up. Or are just very clumsy with words, not seeing the traps they are setting for themselves.

Although with some ads for big release the past years, I got the impression that they outsourced this to some generic ad company that only knows how to use hyperbole in their ads.

But then, I see many MMO players also as gullible enough to fall for this advertising :p So in some way it works I guess. The products sell and even though the shelflife is shorter then intended and the profits are less then expected, they still make a profit. And this cycle seems to keep repeating itself.

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I think newer gamers don't have the experience older more wise gurus have because they have not experienced the falls we have. I played WoW for two months solid after it came out. I have a friend who still plays it to this day and he started playing when I did. He told me so much about it and we talked about it so much that it just died in me.

I have tried picking it up again several times. Really it's not that it's boring or lacking in interesting things to do. Personally it's because I don't like feeling trapped in a role within a group. After I found Blizzard pitching it like it was the messiah I started treating it like the plague.

Anyway what I'm getting at is I was a solid Blizzard fan D1-D2-WC1-WC2-SC1, but it's like going to a car lot. Some people have that SELL ME A CAR PLEASE!!! look on their face when they get there. Others like myself feel if you come at us throwing details over and over in our face then telling us what we like in something we're walking away quickly with frowns. It's a mentality thing in my opinion.

I've seen enough games over the course I can tell off early footage whether I'd be interested or not. Some times I'm surprised or let down, but rarely. It all comes with time and experience like buying cars or quality store items. You either don't care and will pay a discounted price for toilet paper that is so thin you have to use eight sheets just to wipe with sandpaper texture, or you can get the good stuff and use two sheets which leaves your butt feeling pampered. In the case of hype on games your paying for the good paper and getting the stuff you can see through.

The young and ignorant buy things pitched by a big mouth standing on a box in the street. The old and experienced buy reputable items and still some times get burned but feel the sting less. Experience comes with time and choices. You can't teach it and you can't buy it, but it will cost you in time just the same. If you learn from it then it's time well spent. If your still making the same ignorant choices then your wasting your time.

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I suggest you read "Psychology of the masses" by Gustave le Bon. Basically what you see with hype is that the more people you reach, the more will follow. Humans just work like that. The bigger the mass becomes, the easier it is to manipulate (Steve Jobs was awesome at this).

Unfortunately, i think this approach from marketing and ultimately the management of corporations is short-sighted. They try to get the most out of the initial sales to satisfy their shareholders, and when those have gotten their investment back they don't care all that much about the product. It's done, next.

Alltho I admit its funny to watch developers in videos get all excited talk about features of their game like they are the holy grail. Let's call it slightly different from what is allready there, hange it a bit and people will love it! It's totally awesome and not a reinvention of the wheel at all!

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Originally posted by Ashar1972

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by SovrathThe way I look at it is companies have to advertise. What's more, if they have investors they need to do whatever they can to build hype and get people buying. If they don't they can get sued for not doing whatever they could to get a return on the investors' money.

It's up to players to be responsible consumers, do their due dilligence and not approach every game like a kid on christmas morning.

It's nice to get excited about things but it's also nice to approach the world with eyes wide open and realize that in the end you are responsible for your own well being. And wallet.

Very well stated and to the point. I could not agree more with you on this.

Couldn't disagree more with you both.

When I was working in marketing and advertising back in the late 80's it used to be a fairly well understood maxim "The more advertising, the less quality..." and words to that effect. You state "companies have to advertise" yet there are millions who don't advertise at all in the way we are talking about here. Most of those rely on word of mouth, or are intergrated enough into their market that advertising is just a waste of money. Rather than coercion by force of sensory bombardment, many, many companies around the world just provide quality goods, and are know for it.

I am not arguing that your statement is inaccurate because there is no case for advertising and marketing, but that it is inaccurate because it is contrary to the lived experience of many companies around the world. Will MMORPG abandon their model? Why should they, their customers, no matter how temporary, are behaving just how they want them, and as the journalists that report about them get caught up in the hype and bias just as much as the customers, abondoning any critical thinking, but that is another story.

The point being is that companies need to keep their products in the mind of the consumers. That could be "anything". It could be a billboard or a placement in a movie.

As for mmorpg's, to be honest, game companies really don't do more than show a bit here and there. it's the players who grab this stuff and run with it to some sort of monsterous conclusion.

GW2 wasn't "hyped" in my opinion. They just showed what they showed, increased information before it was released. I didn't think the advertising was any more overwhelming and in your face than any other product. And yet the players went nuts.Hence my last statement.

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If you talk about it, you're hyping it. We're all hyping this article merely by responding to it. If we said nothing... it fall off the website and never be seen or heard from again. Once anyone replies, says anything, it's been hyped. Get a bunch of people to do the same, you make it go viral. Did it warrant such attention? Does such attention mean anything? Does hype and viral mean anything? The answer to all of these questions is no. It only has value if you give it value. The moment you hit reply, you gave it value... for good or bad. Keep replying and this could become the article of the year... again, hype and viral have nothing to do with quality or expectations. It's just cannon fodder.

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mmorpgs tend to require 000's of players and above at launch: Jeff Strain said the number is about 150,000 at least back in 2007: So hype and viral are needed for mmorpgs to be financially successful and population working.

Unfortunately, indescriminately bringing a huge crowd of random people is just asking for people to find the crowd "not their type" and not a good setting of expectations leading to "When fanbois go bad":

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Originally posted by TorvaldrThe hype problem is solved by individuals managing themselves and taking responsiblity for how they react and being accountable for that.

This is a problem in today's "I'm a victim!" society. People are held less and less accountable for their own actions everyday. There is always someone else to blame.

It is becoming more rare to find a human being who knows that they are responsible for their own actions. Most are just sheep, blindly following what the lead bell wearer says.

...and the hype train leaves on track 4 :)

Yeah, it's weird to me. There is this huge fallout from TOR, GW2, and a lesser extent some of the other recent releases and boom the next hype cycle pops around and it starts over with the next wave (TESO, FFXIV reboot, Defiance, etc). It's not that any of the older games or upcoming releases are bad, but that the drama cycle never seems to end, yet there is shock and indignation at the end of each. I don't understand that.

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well, yet another addition to what many may see as"beating dead horse". Here is my take on the "virility/hype" syndrome. first to qualify my post,these are two very necesssary ingrediens to

advertising/marketing a new protuct of any kind. In the case of mmorpg games, developers hope to catch perspective customers/players during the production stages thru virility/hype. That being said,

these two ingredients can also create a very reverse effect as well. virility/hype tends to set up a few very scary concepts. Through game concept videos,trailers, and other types of venues for developers to get their "visions" out there to the masses, creates in many cases,false hopes and instills visions in the viewer's minds of something that is purely subjective based on what the viewer

draws from the virility/hype that is placed in front of them.

Then when the said product is released, al;l these effected by the virility/hype jump on board and one fo two scenerios take place. one, they play like wild fire,expecting to get the same excitement/fullfillment that the hype gave them. then after basically force feeding themselves for a seemingly endless period of time,they realize that they have basically become disappointed based on the virility/hype. Scenerio two is quite common as well, where prosective players become part of the virility aspect,based on how the hype engulfed their player expectations. they then pound tyhe forums, discussion groups for endless months during development hoping their feedback effects the end product. then the product is released, they grab a copy and play it endlessly hoping that what they expected to get was what they acrtually recieved. then in the end.. many become disappointed im the end.

Hence,both scenerios create a situation where players from both afformentioned sides find it increasingly hard to log in. this all being said, Virility/hype are both a necessary evil to a games

conception,production & eventual release. one can only hope that they both are dealt out in measured doses in a way that gives the correct image that is desired by both devs & end users

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Well there is simple way to stop virality and hype... People need to start to think. I see it everyday in gw2 forums. People complain that gw2 is not fun for them because.... for example: it doesn't contain raids. Everyone and their mothers knew from very beginning there are not going to be raids in gw2...

If people stopped buying what everyone else buys these days and started to look at what they are buying and think if they actually want it, that would fix this problem. Bad thing is, even if it's simple solution, we all know it's also impossible solution :)

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If players have been reading posts on this site they should know about hype, its beguiling nature and unfullfilled promises.

Like other posters have said the solution is simple, players need to stop and think. How many times I have said do not preorder, I have lost count. Reviews not preview hype is what you should base your decisions on.