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Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man

Never been a scout but.....why not make it a mixed scout group...thingy so both boys and girls can be part of if they wish and just dissolve boy/girl scouts, or make it a totally different group of scouts......idk if it's a silly idea....or if you understand any of that.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by Volta

"we can make this work"

...ಠ_ಠ

@wolfgirl90 I don't think it was ever established that only girls play with barbies, and only boys play with action figures. I grew up playing pirate and despising tea parties; you don't see me on the news for "breaking the gender schema", or whatever you want to call it. Hell, my 4 year old niece plays with wild lizards in the orchard where she lives, and my nephews mess with my sister's make up from time to time. It's not really out of the ordinary. Every child, boy and girl, will have their own preferences, whether or not they're "girly" or "boyish" doesn't matter.

Talking about a boy entering a girl-exclusive group is completely different than talking about a boy who dresses in his mom's high heels for fun.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

Uh no? That's just hobbies and preferences. Not actual groups made up of all of GIRLS or BOYS. Hence the... oh I don't know...NAME? There's a fine line there.

They may be hobbies and preferences, but there have been gender "rules" placed on them. People make a fit over gender lines being crossed about toys, classes, jobs (hell, the simple fact of HAVING a job), just like how people are making an issue over the scout issue. If a boy is wearing a dress or if a girl is wearing a suit (a man's suit, not a dress suit), then people raise eyebrows. Why? Because social norms dictate that it should be the other way around.

If there is a line, what is it then? While people are making a issue about how the two big scouting programs are separated by gender (and how they shouldn't mix), we have technically already crossed that line with co-ed scouting programs like Camp Fire USA and the Boy Scouts' Venturing program (girls can technically be in the Boy Scouts by becoming a Venturer). If we are simply talking about the rules of the organization itself, well, the Girl Scouts already stated their opinion on it (and it was posted and I repeated it).

Like I said before, if we are going to being exclusive based upon what "parts" someone has, then we have a separate issue to deal with, such as girls who identify themselves as girls but don't have girl parts (and vise-versa). Remember, the main argument that the Scout leader gave for rejecting Bobby was the fact that, despite his gender identification, he didn't have the proper equipment.

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

And as for the football thing girls can't play on a co-ed football team except rare instances if they are a kicker. But they don't actually play the sport WITH boys. Girl scouts should be girls only and vice versa for boyscouts. Ewww all the cooties for ruining the system.

I play on a co-ed football team; its part of the reason why I brought it up . And by definition, I do play WITH boys.

All of those "rules" that I brought up earlier were things that I had done personally (in some form).

And like I said before, the "system" has apparently already been "ruined" because the Girl Scouts already had a policy in place about transgender individuals and the Boy Scouts allow girls via the Venturing program.

Originally Posted by RyuTama

I don't think it was ever established that only girls play with barbies, and only boys play with action figures.

Oh yes it has. The rule is still there. If a boy were to be seen playing with dolls, he is going to be teased for it (gender identification aside). Why? Because he is acting "like a girl" because only girls should play with dolls. Of course, there is an obvious double standard because most people won't say much of anything if a girl plays with a dragon figurine or something (they'll call her a tomboy) but if a boy plays with girl toys, he's a sissy or he's gay.

Insults that aren't directed at Bobby's mother are directed at Bobby himself, calling him a "freak", and this is for his wearing a dress and playing with dolls, not about his wanting to be a Girl Scout.

Originally Posted by RyuTama

Talking about a boy entering a girl-exclusive group is completely different than talking about a boy who dresses in his mom's high heels for fun.

Indeed. However, there is also a difference between a boy who dresses in his mother's high heels for fun and one who dresses in high heels because he identifies himself as a girl.

And as I telling blueangel06661, if this about gender exclusivity in scouting, it has long been broken. If this about the rules of the scouting organizations, then there are already exceptions to those rules. The only difference is that we are dealing with someone who is transgender (a boy who believes that he's a girl), not someone who wants to break social norms in order to be a rebel, "to fight the system, man" (like a girl who wants to be a Boy Scout simply because she doesn't like Girl Scouts).

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by wolfgirl90

They may be hobbies and preferences, but there have been gender "rules" placed on them. People make a fit over gender lines being crossed about toys, classes, jobs (hell, the simple fact of HAVING a job), just like how people are making an issue over the scout issue. If a boy is wearing a dress or if a girl is wearing a suit (a man's suit, not a dress suit), then people raise eyebrows. Why? Because social norms dictate that it should be the other way around.

No... There are boy barbies and girl power rangers. etc. etc. It's not about what you do personally. This is an all girls scout. Not all girls + boys who are confused...

If there is a line, what is it then? While people are making a issue about how the two big scouting programs are separated by gender (and how they shouldn't mix), we have technically already crossed that line with co-ed scouting programs like Camp Fire USA and the Boy Scouts' Venturing program (girls can technically be in the Boy Scouts by becoming a Venturer). If we are simply talking about the rules of the organization itself, well, the Girl Scouts already stated their opinion on it (and it was posted and I repeated it).

They may have stated theirs but myself and pretty much all the comments I read on the article pretty much said he shouldn't be there regardless. Girlscouts should be for people with a born BODY of a female and boy scouts should be for people with a born body of a male. Girls are girls and boys are boys at the end of the day no matter if you call yourself the other. Hell a person can call themselves a bunny rabbit but at the end of the day you're just a human. So HE should just so sign up for the boyscouts and be sassy there or just do nothing at all. Like I did.

Like I said before, if we are going to being exclusive based upon what "parts" someone has, then we have a separate issue to deal with, such as girls who identify themselves as girls but don't have girl parts (and vise-versa). Remember, the main argument that the Scout leader gave for rejecting Bobby was the fact that, despite his gender identification, he didn't have the proper equipment.

You either ARE or are NOT a girl. A boy "Identifying" himself as a girl still leaves him as a boy at the end of the day, Vice Versa. You can't run away from that. And honestly looking at the video and comments to me it sounds as if the mother of the child wanted a girl so she bought him all girl clothes/toys. Being a child who doesn't know the difference in what is normal for him to play with has accepted it as his fate at this age. Because really kids play with anything you give them up until they see other kids like them then they play with what the other kids play with. To me it seems like he was a victim of a girl wanted mother.

I play on a co-ed football team; its part of the reason why I brought it up . And by definition, I do play WITH boys.

Not professionally you don't..and never will.. College and pro football do not allow women to play with them. Sure there are female leagues of the same sport but those consist of.. Well... All females obviously.. Hence female league.. And I quit here. You write a whole novel.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Why does the genitalia of a human being even matter. I can't figure it out. Never even saw why it matters in the least bit. I believe in people being who they are and being allowed to do so :P

I hate discrimination and wish I could just slip out of sight so I can get treated normally again. You know people would be surprised how differently they'd treat someone when they aren't being closed minded or hateful/discriminating.

Have you ever smurfed and hung out with your enemies to find out that you are a great team that doesn't fight?

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by MusashiKatana

The last time I saw one of these issues the dad refused to take his kid in again. Although she was a girl who had a sex change into a boy.

I think it's pretty wrong to reject the kid for who hey are. I mean at the end of the day it's still their child. But of course it happens, even though some people should learn to accept and love their kid no matter what.

I think it's pretty wrong to reject the kid for who hey are. I mean at the end of the day it's still their child. But of course it happens, even though some people should learn to accept and love their kid no matter what.

In this case the parents aren't the problem. It's society that has an issue with this. It's sad that we are supposedly a country of equal rights to each individual, but how quick the equality is revoked when you don't conform to what is seen as "acceptable" to others.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

I'm usually open with this kind of thing but I think it's crossing the line and I find it to be very bizarre. Some reason, I can tolerate girls being tomboys and think boyscout is cooler than girl scout. The other way around, no... just no. That's when I should stop the line and I have no idea why his parents allow him to dress up like a girl. I'd rather have a son that will dress up like a girl when he's older than when he is a little boy at that kind of an age. Why? It's just me, and if he wants to be gay or a drag-queen. Whatever. Just don't do it while you're under my care as my child and that's how I'd do it. Now just being in topic here, I don't blame the person who runs for the girl scout to say no. It's called GIRL scout for a reason, it's either he joins boyscout or nothing at all. As I said, I'm open to things like this but it's just not right I wouldn't allow it one bit.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

Girlscouts should be for people with a born BODY of a female and boy scouts should be for people with a born body of a male.

Apparently, the Girl Scouts believe that their organization should be inclusive, which is really all that matters at the end of the day. Interesting how you didn't join the scouts, but still have an opinion about who their private organization "should" cater to.

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

You either ARE or are NOT a girl.

You and I both know that isn't true, so I don't know why you said it. There are people who are intersex whose genders are truly ambiguous (either physically or genetically); often they choose which gender they want to go by or they don't choose either one.

Which brings us back to the can of worms I mentioned earlier. Its really easy to separate people by gender when they are physically normal (Sally has girl parts and is therefor a girl; David has boy parts and is therefore a boy), but not when their genders are ambiguous. If Sally looks like a girl (for the most part) and acts like a girl, but has a penis, is she still a girl. If she IS a girl, then why?

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

And honestly looking at the video and comments to me it sounds as if the mother of the child wanted a girl so she bought him all girl clothes/toys.

You gathered what was going on based on the comments of random individuals versus looking it up yourself? That's never wise (and the video gave no hint about her wanting a girl over a boy so I am even more confused).

I already mentioned it before. Bobby's mother (who has THREE children, not one) thought that Bobby was just going through a phase when he was young. It started when he was two and, since he seemed happiest with girl clothes and girl stuff, she just went with it (because who doesn't want happy kids). Now, FIVE YEARS LATER, he still acts like a girl; hell, he believes that he IS a girl.

So that brings us to where we are now. Bobby wanted to join HIS OLDER SISTER in the Girl Scouts (yeah, mommy already had a girl herp derp), but the scout leader said no and basically ridiculed Bobby (pointing out his "boy parts", his name, etc), which, more than anything, is what the mother is upset about and why she contacted the news (she never contacted the Girl Scouts directly about their policy or their scout leader; the station contacted them). Hell, if the scout leader had refused Bobby in a more polite manner (because, "confused" or not, she shouldn't have said those things in front of Bobby), this probably wouldn't have made the news.

The mother (who again has three children, not one) is upset about what the scout leader said (and how she said it), not about the refusal itself.

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

College and pro football do not allow women to play with them.

I'll stop bringing it up after this, but I will point out that I AM in college and play for my school. Again, I wouldn't have brought it up if it wasn't significant.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by wolfgirl90

I already mentioned it before. Bobby's mother (who has THREE children, not one) thought that Bobby was just going through a phase when he was young. It started when he was two and, since he seemed happiest with girl clothes and girl stuff, she just went with it (because who doesn't want happy kids). Now, FIVE YEARS LATER, he still acts like a girl; hell, he believes that he IS a girl.

At age TWO? Age two you're busy pooping in your underwear and not giving a darn about what you wear. Seriously as a two year old you don't really have a preference for hardly anything. You eat everything and anything, you play with everything and anything. Sounds like the mother to me. Having three kids? Was he the youngest and the only boy? Sounds to me like the mom really wanted a girl and just gave him girl things and later he adapted.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

At age TWO? Age two you're busy pooping in your underwear and not giving a darn about what you wear. Seriously as a two year old you don't really have a preference for hardly anything. You eat everything and anything, you play with everything and anything.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by Token Black Guy

I think it's pretty wrong to reject the kid for who hey are. I mean at the end of the day it's still their child. But of course it happens, even though some people should learn to accept and love their kid no matter what.

Based off of what I saw on Maury about the girl getting that kind of attitude makes me think its common.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

At age TWO? Age two you're busy pooping in your underwear and not giving a darn about what you wear. Seriously as a two year old you don't really have a preference for hardly anything. You eat everything and anything, you play with everything and anything.

Sounds like you are not around kids that much.

Kids don't have to be too grown to make their own preferences on things. Even as babies they will only eat foods that they like; they won't eat anything and everything that you give them (they will stick most things into their mouth, but this is a sign of exploration, not that they don't have preferences in food). At age two, you may not care too about most things in life, but kids can walk and vocalize certain desires (in a simplistic manner, such as "me want such-and-such"). Its at this age when kids start realizing that they have a separate self and identity (hell, on average it usually happens before you are two); its partly what influences temper tantrums and the so called "terrible twos" (kids realize that they are separate from their parents and can influence what they can get from them). Bobby certainly could make the decision that he preferred girl stuff over other stuff at two. He may not have reached the decision that he was a girl, but at age two, he certainly had the capability to decide if he liked My Little Pony over GI Joe.

Originally Posted by blueangel06661

Sounds like the mother to me. Having three kids? Was he the youngest and the only boy? Sounds to me like the mom really wanted a girl and just gave him girl things and later he adapted.

Why do you keep saying that the mom "really wanted a girl" when I already told you that she has an older daughter, a daughter that was already in the Girl Scouts? What sense does that even make? That would be like me taking my cat and training it to be a dog because I wanted a dog...when I already HAVE A DAMN DOG! Are you implying that his mother wanted yet another girl? Because at that point you're splitting hairs.

I mean, is it too hard to believe that Bobby himself came to decision that he might be a girl? It couldn't be that he figured out that he liked Barbies and girl clothes on his own; no, he must have been brainwashed by his mom, with his two siblings in on the whole nefarious scheme.

Bobby is the youngest child, with two older siblings. We know he has a sister (because that's how this got started), but the gender of the other one is never mentioned. Bobby usually dresses like a boy and only wears girl's clothes occasionally (typically when he's not in school; apparently the first time he wore a dress in school didn't go very well).

If his mother wants to turn him into a girl, she isn't doing a very good job of it. As I mentioned before, Bobby wears boy clothes for the most part. She also keeps referring to her son as "he" and "him" (despite the fact that Bobby is transgender), which actually compounded the scout leader situation (the Girl Scouts apparently don't ask for gender; had she used the right pronoun from the start, this may not have happened).

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

For my defense I shall use The Sandlot Defense.

Everyone loves (or at least everyone should) the movie the Sandlot. A story of a group of young baseball enthusiastic whippersnappers getting into shenanigans and playing baseball. I believe it is such a classic because so many men/boys can relate to what they boys in the Sandlot did. As a man, watching that film brings back nostalgic memories of when I was a kid who would hang out with his bro's and get into stupid mischief. Some of that mischief was also in the boyscouts as well!

Anyway, now if you have seen the Sandlot then you must know the terrible sequel the Sandlot 2. They wanted to make the film more "PC" for this crappy era that we are in and brought a girl to cast in the film. It changed the whole dynamic of the film and the film was a flop.

Boys need to be boys and develop those close relationships and likewise for the girls. This generation is getting so high and mighty with political correctness and entitlement it makes me sick.

Re: Boy Wants To Be A Girl Scout And Rejected

Originally Posted by International 4-8818

For my defense I shall use The Sandlot Defense.

Everyone loves (or at least everyone should) the movie the Sandlot. A story of a group of young baseball enthusiastic whippersnappers getting into shenanigans and playing baseball. I believe it is such a classic because so many men/boys can relate to what they boys in the Sandlot did. As a man, watching that film brings back nostalgic memories of when I was a kid who would hang out with his bro's and get into stupid mischief. Some of that mischief was also in the boyscouts as well!

Anyway, now if you have seen the Sandlot then you must know the terrible sequel the Sandlot 2. They wanted to make the film more "PC" for this crappy era that we are in and brought a girl to cast in the film. It changed the whole dynamic of the film and the film was a flop.

Boys need to be boys and develop those close relationships and likewise for the girls. This generation is getting so high and mighty with political correctness and entitlement it makes me sick.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but it sounds like you're applying something you saw on TV to the real world. Because there was a girl that was cast in the sequel to The Sandlot, you're saying that individual girls who prefer spending time or developing interests with a group of boys (and vice versa) is wrong? I sure hope that's not what you're saying, but it certainly sounds like it. Not every girl can be expected to like tea parties and barbies, and therefore they cannot all be expected to spend all their time with girls that do. Not all boys want to grow up to enter the military or go hunting, and so they shouldn't be forced to go on regular shooting outings with their fathers. It's not a matter of rebelling or "making a stand", so to speak, it's merely personal preferences.

In the matter of gender exclusive organizations or sports teams, of course boys will be with boys and girls will be with girls. But as for hobbies and recreational purposes, there shouldn't really be much of a problem if a girl decides to surround herself with boys who share similar interests with her (and again, vice versa).

I have seen The Sandlot, but not the sequel. However, I find it hard to believe that the movie flopped simply because a girl was introduced. But, for the sake of debate, let's say it actually did. So what? A girl's life won't be ruined in the real world just for wanting to enter a group of boys who like to play baseball. You're interpreting something you saw on TV and applying it to everything in general. That's not how it works.