I worked for the Census and I can tell you for a fact that "Hispanic" is not considered a separate race -- Hispanic is considered white.

Then we can't consider the Arizona anti-illegal immigration initiatives racist can we?

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with approval of their own conscience" - C. S. Lewis

It does not matter what the race, ethnicity or culture of the shooter was. The "White Man" and his oppression is behind the pervasive racist attitude that devalues Black lives and kills Black people indiscriminately, merely for living in their American skin... Black cops or Hispanic neighborhood watchmen are mere lackeys, Uncle Toms and wannabe White men who have sold out and are enforcing the racist White man's genocidal agenda.

The proof of the White sponsored racist oppression is that Black parents have to tell their children that if they are ever approached by the police, even if they have done nothing wrong, they must always speak politely and make no threatening gestures. White parents never ever tell their children anything of this nature.

The proof of the White sponsored racist oppression is that Black parents have to tell their children that if they are ever approached by the police, even if they have done nothing wrong, they must always speak politely and make no threatening gestures. White parents never ever tell their children anything of this nature.

You are kidding, right? I'm a white male and my parents told me many, many times to do just that. It's called respect - something lacking quite a bit in today's world.

The proof of the White sponsored racist oppression is that Black parents have to tell their children that if they are ever approached by the police, even if they have done nothing wrong, they must always speak politely and make no threatening gestures. White parents never ever tell their children anything of this nature.

You are kidding, right? I'm a white male and my parents told me many, many times to do just that. It's called respect - something lacking quite a bit in today's world.

You might want to get your sarcasm meter rechecked.

Go back and listen to American Skin, I have and although I like the song and get the idea behind it but read these lyrics

Is that relly something "odd" or "extraoridnary" a Black person has to do the rest of us don't?

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with approval of their own conscience" - C. S. Lewis

The very few times I've been pulled over, I always got my wallet, registration and insurance cards out and put them on the dashboard before the officer would approach. By the time they got to the window, my hands never were out of site reaching for anything - something my folks taught us early on.

The very few times I've been pulled over, I always got my wallet, registration and insurance cards out and put them on the dashboard before the officer would approach. By the time they got to the window, my hands never were out of site reaching for anything - something my folks taught us early on.

Exactly! My youngest son, a Texas State Trooper, told me the LAST thing they want to see when they get to a pulled over car, is someone reaching into a glove box, console or under the seat. Police weapons get unholstered that way. Keep your hands in clear view and don't make any sudden moves. It's really very simple.

Since the New Deal, republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, the war in Vietnam, equal rights, civil liberties, church-state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, campaign-finance reform, the environment and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident. The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the republican party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.

"These are low-functioning sociopaths who defecate platitudes like "Freedom", "America", "Family", "Patriot", and "Values" with the speed and dispersal of diarrhea... they do so without thought, any genuine feeling invested or understanding of the sacrosanct concepts in question! They are the enemy of us all! They are the enemy within! They are the dry rot in the floorboards of our civilization! They are the cancer metastasizing through the body-politic! They are collectively a dangerous unknowing child with a gun now found and they will wound us terribly!"

As long as baggers, bigots and bible thumpers control the repub party, they are doomed to go the way of the Dodo.

The proof of the White sponsored racist oppression is that Black parents have to tell their children that if they are ever approached by the police, even if they have done nothing wrong, they must always speak politely and make no threatening gestures. White parents never ever tell their children anything of this nature.

You are kidding, right? I'm a white male and my parents told me many, many times to do just that. It's called respect - something lacking quite a bit in today's world.

T - BB is kidding and E is pointing out the same thing. That one of the biggest beefs I keep hearing from the black community on this is that they seem to think they are the only ones that these words apply to:

The very few times I've been pulled over, I always got my wallet, registration and insurance cards out and put them on the dashboard before the officer would approach. By the time they got to the window, my hands never were out of site reaching for anything - something my folks taught us early on.

Wouldn't the safer thing to do is when you are pulled over just sit still with your hands on the top of the steering wheel? From the second they decide to pull you over you are being watched, and doing anything out of sight doesn't sound like a good idea. Plenty of time to follow directions when they get to you and tell you what they want.

The way your heart beats when I hold you tight
The way you sigh when we kiss good-night
The way the wind blows through the trees
Well hey that's the way you belong to me

bbb - I didn't take it that either BB or E53 were kidding. After rereading BB's post I can see he might be joshing. The 41 shots thing has always gotten me riled up. I attended (with a police captain friend) the MSG debut of 41 shots with the NYPD protesting the show because the tune is anti-police. We didn't and don't see it that way.

The very few times I've been pulled over, I always got my wallet, registration and insurance cards out and put them on the dashboard before the officer would approach. By the time they got to the window, my hands never were out of site reaching for anything - something my folks taught us early on.

Wouldn't the safer thing to do is when you are pulled over just sit still with your hands on the top of the steering wheel? From the second they decide to pull you over you are being watched, and doing anything out of sight doesn't sound like a good idea. Plenty of time to follow directions when they get to you and tell you what they want.

No. I actually have been thanked by the officers for doing what I did (even in Chicago ). As SJ stated, that's the last thing they want - someone reaching here and there. BTW the Chicago pull over was because I pulled a u-turn at an intersection. When he realized I had a rental car and out of state license, he explained that you can only u-turn where it's marked - unlike here in PA. I thanked him, he thanked me and sent me on my way.

bbb - I didn't take it that either BB or E53 were kidding. After rereading BB's post I can see he might be joshing. The 41 shots thing has always gotten me riled up. I attended (with a police captain friend) the MSG debut of 41 shots with the NYPD protesting the show because the tune is anti-police. We didn't and don't see it that way.

BB is kidding and E is making the same point as you. They both are. And, so am I.

bbb - I didn't take it that either BB or E53 were kidding. After rereading BB's post I can see he might be joshing. The 41 shots thing has always gotten me riled up. I attended (with a police captain friend) the MSG debut of 41 shots with the NYPD protesting the show because the tune is anti-police. We didn't and don't see it that way.

BB is kidding and E is making the same point as you. They both are. And, so am I.

If that's the case then I apologize to BB and 53E. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The very few times I've been pulled over, I always got my wallet, registration and insurance cards out and put them on the dashboard before the officer would approach. By the time they got to the window, my hands never were out of site reaching for anything - something my folks taught us early on.

Wouldn't the safer thing to do is when you are pulled over just sit still with your hands on the top of the steering wheel? From the second they decide to pull you over you are being watched, and doing anything out of sight doesn't sound like a good idea. Plenty of time to follow directions when they get to you and tell you what they want.

I'm just going by what Daren has told me and what I've always done, not that I have been pulled over often. If you have all the information you know they will request, in plain view, on the dashboard, and your hands clearly visible on the wheel, there is no reason to go digging when asked for the documents. With one hand, get the documents from the dashboard and hand it to the officer while keeping the other hand on the wheel. Too many officers have been shot by people who dig in consoles after being asked for documentation and pull a weapon instead of producing insurance information.

Since the New Deal, republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, the war in Vietnam, equal rights, civil liberties, church-state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, campaign-finance reform, the environment and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident. The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the republican party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.

"These are low-functioning sociopaths who defecate platitudes like "Freedom", "America", "Family", "Patriot", and "Values" with the speed and dispersal of diarrhea... they do so without thought, any genuine feeling invested or understanding of the sacrosanct concepts in question! They are the enemy of us all! They are the enemy within! They are the dry rot in the floorboards of our civilization! They are the cancer metastasizing through the body-politic! They are collectively a dangerous unknowing child with a gun now found and they will wound us terribly!"

As long as baggers, bigots and bible thumpers control the repub party, they are doomed to go the way of the Dodo.

"I found out a long time ago what a woman can do to your soulAh, but she can't take you anyway, You don't already know how to go"

“It contributes greatly towards a man's moral and intellectual health, to be brought into habits of companionship with individuals unlike himself, who care little for his pursuits, and whose sphere and abilities he must go out of himself to appreciate.” "Don't come around unless you gonna throw down" ~Judge Mathis

Experts say screams on 911 call in Trayvon Martin shooting were not George Zimmerman’s

George Zimmerman, left, and Trayvon Martin, right, photo from the cover of the memorial brochure given to guests at his funeral on March 3, 2012. (File photos)

Two forensic voice experts who analyzed the 911 call in the Trayvon Martin shooting have found the screams and calls for help did not come from George Zimmerman.

Before Zimmerman shot Martin on Feb. 26, a woman called 911 to report people screaming and fighting outside her home. A voice can be heard screaming for help on that call before the sound of gun shots. The woman reports she could not see what was happening.

The two experts, both of whom were contacted by the Orlando Sentinel, arrived at the same conclusion using two different methods.

Tom Owen, a forensic consultant and a court-qualified expert, used biometric voice analysis which uses computers to compare audio of Zimmerman’s voice to the audio of the 911 call. The software returned a 48 percent match which Owen said is not a high enough percentage to be a positive match. Owen, who did not have samples of Martin’s voice, was unable to determine if Martin is the one screaming on the audio of the 911 call.

Ed Primeau, an audio engineer and forensics expert, used audio enhancement and human analysis to come to the same conclusion that it is not Zimmerman’s voice calling for help. He told the Orlando Sentinel he believes it is Martin’s voice on the recording of the 911 call.

Zimmerman told police he shot Martin in self defense after Martin attacked him and that he was the one calling for help.

You can read more on the experts’ methods here.

"I found out a long time ago what a woman can do to your soulAh, but she can't take you anyway, You don't already know how to go"

“It contributes greatly towards a man's moral and intellectual health, to be brought into habits of companionship with individuals unlike himself, who care little for his pursuits, and whose sphere and abilities he must go out of himself to appreciate.” "Don't come around unless you gonna throw down" ~Judge Mathis

Since the New Deal, republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, the war in Vietnam, equal rights, civil liberties, church-state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, campaign-finance reform, the environment and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident. The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the republican party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.

"These are low-functioning sociopaths who defecate platitudes like "Freedom", "America", "Family", "Patriot", and "Values" with the speed and dispersal of diarrhea... they do so without thought, any genuine feeling invested or understanding of the sacrosanct concepts in question! They are the enemy of us all! They are the enemy within! They are the dry rot in the floorboards of our civilization! They are the cancer metastasizing through the body-politic! They are collectively a dangerous unknowing child with a gun now found and they will wound us terribly!"

As long as baggers, bigots and bible thumpers control the repub party, they are doomed to go the way of the Dodo.

My posts and thoughts about this whole tragic situation were about the way the incident was portrayed in the media and the fact that not one of us, or those drawing conclusions in the press had a clue as to what transpired that night. The lynch mob mentality, the way Zimmerman was convicted by people with no clue, the twitters, the t-shirts and the 'jumping to conclusions' based on little or no facts was and is appalling to me.

Even if this guy turns out to be a murderer, it doesn't change the way I feel about the way some people treated this thing. If he is tried and convicted then I guess people can high five each other because they were right....this time. Next time, maybe some poor innocent bastard gets shot in the chest because of a mass twitter or some other nonsense.

My posts and thoughts about this whole tragic situation were about the way the incident was portrayed in the media and the fact that not one of us, or those drawing conclusions in the press had a clue as to what transpired that night. The lynch mob mentality, the way Zimmerman was convicted by people with no clue, the twitters, the t-shirts and the 'jumping to conclusions' based on little or no facts was and is appalling to me.

Even if this guy turns out to be a murderer, it doesn't change the way I feel about the way some people treated this thing. If he is tried and convicted then I guess people can high five each other because they were right....this time. Next time, maybe some poor innocent bastard gets shot in the chest because of a mass twitter or some other nonsense.

This!

Next time, maybe somebody like Spike Lee gives out the address of who he thinks is guilty so that his followers can go do their vigilante justice.

Wait - I mean next time maybe he gives out the right address instead of some retired couple's place.

My posts and thoughts about this whole tragic situation were about the way the incident was portrayed in the media and the fact that not one of us, or those drawing conclusions in the press had a clue as to what transpired that night. The lynch mob mentality, the way Zimmerman was convicted by people with no clue, the twitters, the t-shirts and the 'jumping to conclusions' based on little or no facts was and is appalling to me.

Even if this guy turns out to be a murderer, it doesn't change the way I feel about the way some people treated this thing. If he is tried and convicted then I guess people can high five each other because they were right....this time. Next time, maybe some poor innocent bastard gets shot in the chest because of a mass twitter or some other nonsense.

This!

Next time, maybe somebody like Spike Lee gives out the address of who he thinks is guilty so that his followers can go do their vigilante justice.

Wait - I mean next time maybe he gives out the right address instead of some retired couple's place.

Of course what you guys are failing to realize is that Zimmerman is NOT being subjected to any kind of prosecutorial process. He is (currently) walking away scott-free from killing a 17 YO kid. "If" he is tried and convicted? Even "if" he turns out to be a murderer? Well, I guess that part is right...."if".

And what vigilante justice are you talking about? Zimmerman has not been subjected to any such thing. Since when is outrage over an apparent whitewash of an investigation "vigilante justice"?

"True enjoyment comes from activity of the mind and exercise of the body; the two are ever united."