A Fair Question,I Think

velsgarden(TN 7)September 10, 2009

I think this is a fair question.I am not trying to step on anyones toes.Maybe I just need for someone to explain trading seeds.I have had many trades here and have never had a problem,except for one person.This is twice this has happened to me from the same person.I read her rate and reveiw page and everyone says she is a great trader,only one negative reply.So my question is,if you are not willing to trade for postage,should you post that you will even though you had prefer to trade seeds?...velvet

Im not trying to make anyone mad here....I love this place and have made several good friends!!!

So my question is,if you are not willing to trade for postage,should you post that you will even though you had prefer to trade seeds?...velvet

Am I understanding you correctly in that there is a member who is asking you to trade for postage? IMHO, there is no such thing as trading for postage, though I do see some newer members asking if they can trade for postage which is really just asking for seeds in exchange for sending a bubble envelope and postage...which is against the rules

Per the Special Instructions for The Exchange ...* The exchanges were created to facilitate the arranging of trades of plants and seeds between members. Please do not use them to solicit donations, ask for free plants or seeds, or ask for items in exchange for postage. All requests must be in the context of arranging a trade. If you have nothing to offer at this time, please wait until you do

If I was only wanting to do trades at this time, I would just state...Seed Trades only at this time please...No seeds for postage

Sue

btw...it is not uncommon for a member to get banned from GW if they make it a habit of asking for things for postage, when there has been nothing 'offered' up for postage. Of course replying to seeds for postage offers is fine.

This person may be willing to CONSIDER sending untraded seeds for postage after she has gotten many of the seeds she is looking for in trade. Many people (like me) wait until late winter/early spring when the height of the trading season is over to offer extra seeds for postage and will not accept SASBEs before then.

Sometimes a trader may have certain seeds available for SASBE, but not everything on the list will be. For example, if someone has a large amount of daisy seeds they may offer them for postage, but other rare or more valuable things on their list they want something in return for.

The important thing to remember is that seeds belong to the individual who has them, and they are under no obligation to give them away regardless of what they may indicate on their trade page. They may choose to give them to Member A but not Member B, and that is their right to do so. Maybe Member A has a detailed member page--myself, I am more likely to send seeds to someone who has taken the time to tell me a little bit about themself than someone who simply joins and leaves most of their member page empty. Maybe Member A is more polite in their request than Member B. And maybe the person offering the seeds is too busy or simply unwilling at that time to send seeds out.

If someone elects not to trade or send SASBEs, that does not make them a bad trader. A bad trader is someone who agrees to the deal but does not follow through. If the person in question had agreed to send you seeds and then kept your stamps without sending you anything, that is a different story. But it sounds like in your case, no deal was ever made.

The best thing to do is not to take it personally. Instead, watch for the many open offers for SASBEs, and I'm sure you'll get a lot of great seeds.

I was writing my response while Sue was posting hers. I just assumed that velsgarden was referring to SASBE offers, not trading seeds for postage.

There seems to be a bit of semantic confusion over trading versus free seeds. I've received requests where people ask me to send them seeds in "trade" for a padded envelope and postage sufficient to return it (filled) to them--that is NOT a trade. I've sent out tons of SASBEs and sometimes people who receive them leave feedback on the R&R forum thanking me for the great trade. It wasn't a trade as I received nothing from them in return for what I sent. The only reason I am splitting hairs is that someone who reads their comments may think I have successfully concluded a trade when in reality I cannot vouch for that person's integrity as a trader.

If I am wrong in my assumption that velsgarden was seeking seeds for SASBE rather than seeds for extra postage, I apologize.

First of all,I did not ask the person to do a sasbe or ask to send her extra postage..
The person posted (I have lots of a certain seed for trade or postage)but would prefer to trade.I offered a seed she had listed on her want list and she replied I didnt have anything she needed,sorry.So I replied that she said she would also take postage.
I never said she was a bad trader.Also I didnt ask for the seed to begin with,she offered the seed.I understand that no one is under any obligation to trade with anyone.My point is I was just replying to an offer....

Since the trader in question stated that she would PREFER TO TRADE, she may have made enough trades that she had nothing left over to offer for SASBE. Although you had something from her wish list, possibly she had offers of things she wanted more, or maybe someone had already offered her the same thing as you did.

My comment about 'bad trader' was in reference to the fact that you had looked her up on the R&R forum when she didn't agree to a trade or an SASBE. It seemed to me that you felt surprised that she had an overall positive rating and yet would not honor her offer of SASBE for the seeds, and I was pointing out that exercising her right to pick and choose whom she trades with/sends SASBEs to is her decision and really has no bearing on whether or not she is a good or bad trader.

Everyone who is on the Seed Exchange forum for any amount of time will eventually be turned down by someone, and as I said earlier, please don't take it personally. Just keep looking for offers and you are bound to end up with a lot of great seeds.

velvet, I'm sorry as I misunderstood what you asked initially. I was thinking you had started a seed trade thread and someone came along and wanted to make a trade for postage

I know now that the member posted I have lots of a certain seed for trade or postage)but would prefer to trade.
Yes, while it is his/her prerogative to not send them for postage as the offer originally stated, I find it a little strange, or would think that he/she would maybe want to update his/post to read something like Not accepting any more seeds for postage offers at this time or something. It does seem odd that it has happened to you twice with the same person...maybe things will work out yet. I hope so anyway.

Do I understand it correctly that if we offer seeds for SASE or SASBE it is ok, but if we asked for seeds with SASE or SASBE, that is against the rule?
That is correct. You can only ask for the seeds for postage if they have already been 'offered' for postage.

To ask for seeds for postage, when there has been no seeds offered, is in violation. Per the Special Instructions...The exchanges were created to facilitate the arranging of trades of plants and seeds between members. Please do not use them to solicit donations, ask for free plants or seeds, or ask for items in exchange for postage.

The Special Instructions don't cover members offering up seeds for postage, but they have always allowed members to generously offer up their excess seeds for postage.

Sue, thanks for the explanation. It does make sense. This is an exchange forum, so people should not ask for seeds for postage. However, if anyone is generous enough to offer seeds for postage, that is ok.

it is a very fair question! sometimes i think "SOME" people put that out there just to see who all will come up and see what kind of "trades" they can get. of course i've only met a few "screwy" traders like that. out of easily a hundred traders, so that's not bad at all! **big smile** i just would ignore her posts from now on. if it was me. *grin** ~medo

I don't think the trader in question deserves to be called 'screwy'. She stated she preferred trades and quite possibly got enough good offers that she had nothing left for SASBE. Anyone who posts seeds for trades is of course shopping them around to get the best offers for what they want--why the last poster implies that there is something wrong with that is puzzling.

Maybe the woman offering seeds for trade/SASBE could have worded her listing better, maybe she should have added a message later that she was no longer offering SASBEs, but from what I see she did nothing wrong according to GW policies.

This woman, according to velsgarden, has a very good trade record. I understand that velsgarden was disappointed as is anyone who, for whatever reason, is turned down in their attempt to get seeds they are really looking for, but that is no reason for anyone to call the trader names or question her integrity.

Ohhhh Kate ** onery grin**
i didn't say "she" was, just traders like that were. (who offer to sasbe/beaps or trade and then only trade, to get good trades that they want) i think i'm a little loopy at times, and goofy, but not a mean person!! **grin** and i think by now you should know that i'm a nice person! Geeze!! **smile**

as for R & R, well we ALL know that some don't report bad trades because fear of retaliation, or don't know about it, etc. so there could be more going on there that we don't know about.
you are very right, this person could be a straight shooter. i think our poster is very nice in the fact that she keeps the "person" name out of this, so as not to drag her down. that is very cool.

what seeds were you looking for anyhow?? if i have them, maybe you have something i want?? **grin** you totally don't want to waste a stamp sending for the seeds anyhow, why not get something out of it. as in sending something for something!! LOL **big smile** ~medo

"Ohhhh Kate ** onery grin**
i didn't say "she" was, just traders like that were. (who offer to sasbe/beaps or trade and then only trade, to get good trades that they want)"

What is wrong with trying to get good trades? That's the entire purpose of this forum. No one is obligated to give away seeds. Trade or SASBE was the offer. She chose trades.

Medo, you still keep implying that the person in question is somehow wrong. You think that because velsgarden did not post the trader's name that she is being honorable and not 'dragging her reputation down.' Why should she? All the trader did was not give away seeds to vels. How on earth is it somehow honorable to not drag down the name of someone who did not deserve it? SHE DID NOTHING WRONG.

And by the way, a simple search will reveal who this person is. She doesn't deserve to be maligned, nor does any one who doesn't feel that they are somehow obligated to give their seeds away.

Your comment about a lot of bad trades not being reported continues to suggest that because the unnamed trader's R&R comments are almost entirely positive she could still be a bad trader. Then by all means, let's dispense with the Rate and Review forum, it is obviously worthless. In my experience, it is much more likely that an angry person will post about a bad trade than a happy person will about a good one.

Velsgarden, this is not directed at you. I am glad you posted this thread as I think it may be helpful to point out where posters can be more clear in how they word things, and it has helped clear up the differences between trades and SASBEs.

I DO feel compelled at this point to defend the good name of a fellow trader whom I do not know, have not traded with, but whom I think deserves better than this. Again, her trade comments are overwhelming positive, she is a generous person, and an asset to Gardenweb. She is the kind of person that I am happy we have here.

Kate

PS: When looking for trades, I will NEVER list SASBEs as an option if what it means is that my reputation will be called into question.

I think all of this is being blown out of proportion.Kate I think you are taking this all the wrong way.I never said anything about this persons reputation,I never tried to make her look bad,I simply asked a question about trade ethics.There was no reason to defend anyone.As far as me looking at the r&r,I look at it before I do a trade with anyone,as that is what I was tought when I first joined gw.Is that not the purpose of the r&r to see ones trading record.When I first traded with you I checked your rating to,which Im sure you probally did mine to.This has nothing to do with making someones reputation look bad.You make it sound like I was telling everyone not to trade with this person.That was not the purpose.If I was trying to make her look bad I would have said her name.....Velvet

Sorry, I thought when you posted you were asking for others' opinions, but I see you only wanted validation that somehow, because the poster mentioned that she would consider SASBE, she was somehow amiss in not giving away her seeds.

I don't think I am blowing this out of proportion--I am defending a fellow trader who did not break any rules, who did not owe anyone free seeds, who exercised the option she stated: I'd prefer trades.

If someone turns another down for a trade or SASBE, I think questioning her integrity is blowing it out of proportion, whether it is the original poster, or someone else, in this case medo. A quick search shows that you have responded to many offers of free seeds--and that is your right and totally fair--but why you chose to post about one person who didn't give you free seeds is puzzling.

Despite not naming her, based on the info you provided, especially how she had one bad comment amont several positives, it is very easy to do a search for posts you have responded to and discover her identity. It took me about 2 minutes, and I have dial-up. Naming her might have been more honest because at least then she could respond in person.

And by the way, vels, since you brought it up, we didn't TRADE. It was an SASBE offer of mine you responded to for Angelica gigas. Again, I appreciate the opportunity to point out the difference between trades, where both people get something they want, and SASBE, where only one party benefits--it seems that is still a point of confusion with you and possibly others who read this post.

First of all I only ask should you post you will except postage if you are not wanting to.
And Kate,as far as your quick search as far as my replying to a lot of sasbe offers,I really dont think that is any of your business.That is usually how a new person gets started trading seeds by accepting sasbe offers.And just to let you know I am not confused about trades and sasbe.I do apologize,as I had thought you and I had done some trades.As far as this still going on,I think it is time to let this matter drop....Velvet

Reading through the discussion on trades vs. SASE/SASBE transactions, I became a little confused on the topic of posting on R&R.

If I respond to an offer for seeds/plants for SASE/SASBE, I always leave a positive review for the generous donor. I try to make it clear that the transaction was not a trade.

Personally, I feel that those wonderful people who offer their seeds/plants for SASE/SASBE should receive positive notes and heartfelt thanks.

On the same note, I don't expect to have them leave any type of feedback for me. After all, they are sending me a gift! However, if I have had them hold seeds/plants and don't send the SASE/SASBE, I would expect a negative note on my R&R.

I clearly stated there is nothing wrong with responding to SASBE offers.

As for researching the threads you replied to, I did it only when you stated that you had traded with me. I was looking up the threads where I offered SASBEs to find the one you had responded to, and I saw the titles of the other postings that had your name in them.

Another thought occurred to me: How do we know the trader in question DIDN'T send some of her seeds for SASBE? Maybe she traded some, maybe she did send some out for postage--just because she didn't give you any doesn't mean she didn't do any SASBEs.

maybe i didn't say that right Kate, ahhhh, if someone offers sasbe/beap and then says to the person, when they email, no, i'd rather trade, only if that person doesn't really have something that they can get. so in effect. the person who emailed about the sasbe/beap doesn't get anything. ok. now that's what i'm getting at. which is what i'm trying to say is wrong. i'm my opinion. i think that if you offer them, then everyone should be ok to recieve them till gone or if your wanting to trade some. but this is my opinion, "please bear with me, going on little sleep this week. all my thoughts are floating up there **grin**> in no way would i think at all are you a bad person.
amelia i just started to leave feedback on people who sent in their sasbe's, ya know, like they did send them in, LOL but not if they didn't, can you actually imagine the amount of wasted space that people would leave?? **grin**
but i think its a nice thing to do. :'>

if this is about Kate, some info is not given. i know she is one of the fairest people. not to mention nicest. :'> and no i wasn't trying to put someone's reputation into this. your right, i should have done a search, even though you didn't say that. next time i will look up the stuff and get all of my facts. can i pull a "i'm still learning" thing?? **eye's looking up** **grin** ~medo

The entire point I've been trying to make is that the seeds offered belong to the person who posted them. In this case she said Trade OR SASBE, and that she would prefer to trade. She probably got some great offers for the seeds and decided to trade them, though as I just pointed out, she may have sent some for SASBE--just because vels didn't get them doesn't mean she didn't give some away. Regardless, she posted SASBE as an OPTION, and whether she did or didn't give any of the seeds away is irrelevant. The decision of how she dispensed with them is hers and hers alone.

Even if you think that she was obligated to give her seeds away simply because she had SASBE in the title of her posting, they are her seeds, she didn't break Gardenweb rules or guidelines, so what other people 'think' is right is moot. THEY ARE HER SEEDS. Until she strikes a deal and addresses have been exchanged, no one is ENTITLED to her seeds.

What if I post seeds for trade but don't get any offers I want--am I obligated to trade just because I put it in the title of my posting?

If we all start getting upset and questioning people's motives because someone turned us down for trades, we missed out on free seeds, the trader didn't word her post to our liking, etc., I don't think the effects on this site would be very good.

I am happy and thrilled by the great trades I've had. So sometimes I lose out on things I wanted, get turned down--I move on. My experiences on GW are almost all positive ones, and it would be silly of me to harbour resentment over the few times I was disappointed. The great seeds I wanted but didn't get are still out there somewhere, and I continue to enjoy the thrill of the hunt for them. If and when I DO get them, they will be that much more special.

i do see your point. i don't harbour resentment, i move on to the next thing. :') at least i try to **big smile** and yes the thrill of the hunt for the seeds is what i love. i will look back over this post later and say, what the heck????? because the top one sure as heck made absolutely no sense to me!! but i know that it did when i wrote it. i do need sleep. i know that.
~medo