Factor5 - Lair ONLY possible on the PS3

"The very basic fact is you could not do this engine completely as you see it there on any other system but the PS3.

We got so much physics running, so much animation running, we got the levels with 25,000 soldiers where we have to simulate the army combat which is going on on the ground we got all these dragons being animated of course. To pull of this world scale.

I think it would have been absolutely impossible on any other platform let alone a previous generation."

but... the ps3 has blu-ray so it can make special magic toast, and if you eat you will turn into a bunny that poops cell chips to cure cancer... so... the ps3 must be 1,375,289 times better than the Wii.

I don't think he meant it so harshly, I think he was pushing at the fact they developed it specifically for the Cell Processor and he could only see it running smoothly as it does on the PS3. But then again he hasn't developed for the Xbox 360 so he really has nothing to compare to. I'd take his opinion much more seriously if he had worked on multiple consoles THEN made this statement, because he'd know what hes talking about, but in this case he only knows the PS3's architect its unlikely he has anything to really compare it to.

Like you said all he has worked on this gen is the ps3... and to say that something like a $3000-$4000 PC couldnt do lair is just plain crazy talk... he did say "nothing" else could do it.

As a side note, I much rather take the word of a company, say epic, that has worked on multiple formats when they say both systems (ps3 and 360) are about equal in power when it comes down to cpu, gpu, ram.

I really am getting sick of this "my d!ck is bigger than yours" crap from in-house devs and then when the game comes out it's just average or slightly better than average. They all can talk the talk but no one seems to walk the walk.

I have to disagree. He did say he cant think of any "consoles" this gen that could do it. SO PC is open for debate...what kind of PC could do it is another matter.

Also if they see these things that can be done on the ps3 and they know the specs of a 360 which they of course researched (Factor 5 were leaning to the 360) they obv know what they are talking about. And it's good to hear passionate devs, we need more of them.

as for me i like both Sony and MS, i have a 360, but no PS3 as i cant afford one yet, but will deff get one. so far its all been pretty even, but with all the comparisons i have seen MS XBox 360 has been slightly better, so the PS3 has yet to prove its self to me, i have faith in it, but it hasnt done it yet.

Uhh... Voluptuary. It's common knowledge that the 360's GPU is slightly better than the PS3, while the Cell is crazily more powerful than the 360's CPU. Isn't it more powerful than any CPU? Meaning PC couldn't handle the physics aspect etc? Or is there something better already out?

I believe he's talking about progressive mesh. Only able to be done on the cell apparently . There's no doubt there#s huge advantages to the cell...but you clearly have to be developing purely for the ps3 to really make it sing.

Indeed that is something fanboys dont realise. It's bloody hard to get into that cell and add to that split memory in the PS3 it's a very tough cookie to crumble when you are not optimising for the cell.

But once your in...the cell is pretty "limitless". As time goes on that'll become evident as the tools improve.

ps. they are walking the walk. go watch the dev interviews on gametrailers. It really is immense and i dont think anyone can doubt that no matter what system it's on, just like noone doubts that gears looks amazing.

lol!!! the irony and double standar these fanbois take when developer epics Cliffy b. said that gears wasn't possible on ps3... how quickly they wish to boost there system... but when ps3 does it because it's secured a game that you all would have been crying to have on the 360. lol!!! i laugh at your squirms... i'll just hide behind this rock over here with the pop corn in my hand and just watch as rabid Fanbois from both just rip and ravage this and try to defend there precious console.... lol!!! look it's alreay started with just look above and the inevitable ones that will probably proove my statement of them being noobs for replyling below me to take a shot at me... lol!!! but like i said i'll just hid behind the a rock and look from the side lines as this gets quickly approved to be ripped apart... ah let the show begin. let the show begin lol!!!

*Evolution don't be so lame. Go and watch the dev interview videos and then go to neogaf and see all the 360 fans in awe of the game saying it's the best looking next-gen game they have ever seen. people who after the first IGN footage dissed the hell out of it and then saw gametrailers and then the dev interviews on gametrailers and were absolutely blwon away by Lair and the Factor 5 engine. If you havent seen that then you don't deserve to comment.

And I thought this was amusing in the teamxbox.com forums about the lair videos.

"Do not fooled by the videos, they are likely CGI. Get ready for a big downgrade once the game ships. I hate the way Sony lies and misleads people just like they did back in May 2005."

Another (not my words...they speak for themselves)

"Is this not the most unbelievabely technologically advanced game ever? Or have I forgotten some game?
When they are moving the camera around in the second video above the waterfalls and you can see allthe buildings, mountins, water, dragons flying around, I'm like WTF!!"

I know it never says any thing about the sixaxis but I think that also plays into the game as well. The 360 has no motion sensors and the game could not work on the 360. From what I have read almost every thing is played with the motion sensors of the PS3. So if this game was to come out on the 360 it would be a whole different game.

I do think from what I have seen this game could also have come out on the 360. But I think it is best that the game will only be on one system that way the game will use more of the systems power. Just like if Gears of War was to come out on the PS3 too the game would not use the power of the 360 and not look the same. So I am thankful some games are exclusive to one system over them all. That way I get to see the true power of the systems.

This also makes the purchase of every system on the market easier to do because you know there will be games that will only be on one system.

All you people got odd comments but since they made the game wouldnt hey know a little more then you. ( Yet Capcom said the same thing about DMc (DevilarmIbelive)but it was b4 they seen 360s hardware to be honest)

As I say before Factor5 is doing some serious marketting for Sony. I am interested in this game and may give it a shot when I get my a PS3, but why the hell do I have to hear things like "I think it would have been absolutely impossible on any other platform let alone a previous generation". I don't need convincing, Final Fantasy and metal gear are enough to make pay $600 for a console, sure as hell is not lair.
The funny things about it is that there is no way to prove that this game can only be done for the PS3 since is a freaken exclusive, the same way it can't be proven that Gears of war can be made for the PS3. These developers should try to stop trying to start flame wars are if we don't have enougn of them with the famboys we already have.

"the cell is pretty "limitless"" are you kidding? So, why did IBM while doing the test on the ray(thingy) the other day had to use a cluster of 8(or more) PS3 to get one thing done? Why aren't they using only one PS3 for folding intead of using many? the word "limitless" means limitless. I didn't want to say this before, but factor5 only have experience developing games for Sony and the PS3 and therefore it's safe to say that they are bias and know $h!t about the 360 except what they read on the internet just like any of us. This is like bungie saying that halo 3 can only be done for the 360.

yes, that would be the logic, IF Epic had in fact said its not possible for technical reasons, but actually Epic only stated its not possible for Gears to be on PS3 because its distributed by Microsoft exclusively ... and the chances for Microsoft to allow the one extremely GREAT game for the xBox360 to be on the PS3 are below zero.

Wrong, they said Gears of War couldn't been done because of the memory restrictions with the PS3 dude.

What I tried to make obvious with some kind of sarcasm, is that every company with an exclusive game will say that. To get more hype to the game, everyone with that specific console will buy it to 'demonstrate' to their friends that what they have can only be done on their console.

xbox/GC came 1,5 YEAR AFTER launch of ps2. And it`s obviously, that they had better graphics.
PS3 came 1 YEAR AFTER launch of xbox360. And it`s obviously, that ps3 has better graphics.

and xbox360 doesn`t has Cell, which calculates Physics and AI really far beyond of x360 capabilities.
and xbox360 doesn`t has blu-ray, so it can`t store as much info as ps3.
and Progressive Mesh is used ONLY in Lair, no other xbox360 games AFTER 1,5 YEAR had use that feature. And PS3 ALREADY use it in _first_ half year. =)

+ NGS runs in [email protected] with self-shadowing, which according to original NG creator was impossible on this next gen consoles.
+ Lair will run in 1080p, BEST looking xbox360 games are running in 720p!

"xbox/GC came 1,5 YEAR AFTER launch of ps2. And it`s obviously, that they had better graphics.
PS3 came 1 YEAR AFTER launch of xbox360. And it`s obviously, that ps3 has better graphics. "

ONE OF THE MOST STUPID POSTS EVER!!!

Dude. The PS3 and 360 were announced on the same time. They had the hardware choices made about on the same time. The only thing is... The PS3 got delayed so long that it seems as if it's newer. It should have launched spring 2006, got at the end of 2006 in USA/Japan and a full year after that to Europe/the rest of the world.

Both announced @ E3 2005, and you can bet the hardware descisions were already in place at that point in time. You can't put a console together in a few months or a year dude.

The Dreamcast came out before the PS2 and even had better graphics.
And even funnier:

The PS3 came a year after the 360, and still the 360 has the better graphics in multiplatform games and the best looking next gen AAA titles are on the 360.

The Cell is great for video and streaming, calculating folding @ home. It's not optimal for gaming. It's a multimedia optimal CPU, which is great for the BluRay player functionality.

I have a nice quote also from another forum:

"mprobins says:
The type of system RAM used by the 360 is the exact same type of RAM the PS3's GPU uses. The memory bandwidth available to both the 360 & PS3 GPU is identical.
That isn't the whole picture though. The 360 also has a 32GB/S link to 10mb of eDram. The eDram is used as a frame buffer (ie: it is what the GPU "draws" on). In other words, instead of splitting bandwidth pulling texture data and writing out framebuffer data, the 360's GPU has a large pipe it can use to pull texture data and a separate pipe it can use to write out framebuffer data (it is a bit more complicated than that, and the eDram gives developers a few other neat features for free, but that's the gist of it).
The "faster" ram in the PS3 is RDRAM. Great for streaming. Sucky for random access. Honestly, I don't understand why Sony continues to use the stuff. Latency to system memory is compounded as the GPU has to go "further" to access that ram vs it's local ram. It isn't suitable for real-time access by the GPU for a number of reasons; you'd only want to access it to prefetch texture data (which means you're then wasting memory duplicating data)."

There you ahve it. Even the memory is for streaming, video etc. Not for gaming.

BR isn't needed. It's Sony's push format to feed the lemmings
Plus, wouldn't ALL games from launch on be in 120fps @ 1080p as is true HD according to Sony?

Uh oh we have a problem! Motorstorm would be 60 fps @ 1080p, it became 30fps @ 720p. COD3 was 30fps @ 720p were the 360 did 60fps @ 720p.

Ah well we could go on and on and on, but you buy the Sony lies to much dude

EDIT

@ Crazzyman (below)

"ps3 had almost 1 year, after launch of xbox360, and if you think that ps3 hardware wasn`t improved during that time, then you are just FANBOY."

Wrong. Hardware was fixed already. It should have had launched in Spring 2006, just 4 to 5 months after the 360. There have not been made ANY changes in hardware since they chose Cell. The hardware wasn't improved, only the testing of the components in the PS3 design.

If you believe hardware changes in the last year, when production has to be prepared you're the real FANBOY. And stupid also

What would you expect. Games are still made for the PS2, the hardware is explored more. Ofcourse God of War 2 looks great. I would even make a bold statement: it looks better then most if not all games on XBOX 1. Although the XBOX 1 has hardware that's capable of more.

The Dreamcast, if not went bankrupt by the lying of Sony over the PS2 power so all consumers waited for the PS2 instead of buying a Dreamcast, would have brought great looking games.

"multiplatform NOW is looking better on ps3."

Wrong. Only Oblivion looks better then on the PS3, because it had a FULL YEAR extra development time. If the 360 version would have had that extra time, it would have put the PS3 to shame.

COD3, Splinter Cell, FNR3, MLB 2k7 and all other games look better on the 360.

you are all forgetting what the cell can do and what the 360 can't do,another exemple:"The visuals in Heavenly Sword are downright delicious, with dreamy twilight lighting, expansive vistas, and waterfalls that look vastly superior to the ugly tumble of particles in other games. Nariko's clothing and scarlet mane respond to gusts of wind as well as her never-ending flips and spins. What's more, Heavenly Sword is the first PS3 game to really stress the console's much-hyped Cell processor. In Heavenly Sword, the Cell enables incredible numbers of enemies to be on screen at one time. The trick is that Cell treats entire regiments as a single unit of artificial intelligence when they are at a distance; as they draw closer, Cell gradually divides the army into smaller and smaller groups, so they eventually become individual troops with unique fighting styles and tactics.Heavenly Sword is one of the first PS3 games to tap into Cell's true potential. Here are the highlights.

* Artificial Intelligence To keep up with the hundreds of on-screen enemies, Cell treats distant armies as a singlular "hive mind." As they approach Nariko, Cell splits their intelligence across squads, and finally, individual troops.

* Graphics Wind gusts swirl Nariko's hair and clothes, and bazooka blasts send out showers of dust and rubble. 1080p support is still a question mark, though.

* Physics When firing a cannon, Nariko can influence the trajectory of the projectile using the Sixaxis. Ninja Theory claims it needs the Cell to handle these complex calculations." http://www.gamepro.com/sony... Case closed,Lair dev is exactly right about the impossibility of developing the game on another platform

So the cell in Heavenly sword handles large crowds by grouping AI in the distance? Wow, that's amazing. But isn't there another game that handles AI like that? Hmm, let me see...it's on the tip of my tongue...that's it, Halo 3.

HA! They need the cell to calculate movements from the motion sensor to steer projectiles? What a joke.

EDIT:To the guy bellow...

We don't know how many enemies on screen Halo 3 will have, only that it will certainly be epic. The point is anyway, it uses a simular technique.

Most of Heavenly swords Graphics look MEh! the clothing etc and detail in enviroments are comparible to launch 360 titles I wonder how deep it is?, Sure the chick looks good in stop and watch cut scenes, Should i post some more HS ingame; in action content?. That dragon game isn't too great either although Lairs gameplay seems cool for and great weekend rent! but does it have any depth to it lAIR doesn't graphiclly look good or bad.

Both titles are in Alpha, we have not yet seen the final code. I think you may be putting your foot in your mouth by claiming that what we have seen to this point is as good as it will get. I bet you are wrong about that. It would be like me saying Oh Halo3 looks totally crap since again we have only seen alpha footage. Also, and if you think Heavenly Sword will be just hack and slash like N3 you are seriously wrong.

I just don't want fan girls leaving me bad feedback, but, F it. Heavenly sword looks like pure sht, there i said it. Halo and all the other alpha sht look like sht! PS fan boys think their games look great, but they see Forza 2 in alpha they make fun of it. Some games show how the final build is going to look, like halo did with it's first trailer, but everyone seem to forget about that and concentrate of the alpha. So, yes, for now Heavenly Sword doesn't look like anything special, but maybe, just maybe.

They should put a Alpha Vid of Killzone, no, no, they would never do something like that, i guess you can only do that when you have confidence in your game. BTW: Lair only possible on the PS3? Right, the game doesn't even look that good.

playing gow2 looking cool big fight going on.
"how cool is this i cant wait for hevenly sword as its like next gen gow !" said i.
cool says my mate followed by go kill that guy over there ! (pointing at background)
"i cant !" said i.
"so all the cool epic stuff is pretty much a movie playing in the back ?" he asks.
um.....................yes !

crap.

"what about those big heavenly sword battle pics going around ?" he asks.
"go away !" says i.
"this game is great fun...best ps2 game ever"
said i.
"but its fake !" said he.

said the same thing about the N64 vs PS1. Rouge Squadron could ONLY be done on the N64. Then Rouge Leader could ONLY be done on th Gamecube. Do you guys think that's true, I sure as hell don't. This game does look very promising, but certainly could be done on the 360 with equal results if it were not exclusive.

Ps3 so their game can sell. You see, they have to be concerned about all the money they have spent on this game and the very small base of consumers who have purchased a ps3. Then you couple that with the dipping sales of the ps3. They have to give consumers the impression that this game is the "ONE" game to get and it cna "ONLY" be done on the ps3. Its laughable to me. I know what its all about. I have been around long enough to hear this same talk prior to the release of many a game. I'm sorry but I'm just not believing the hype. I have been let down by Ps3 over hyped games one too many times thusfar. I will play the wait and see approach....I will purchase it no doubt. But, I thought F1 and Motorstorm and Resistence were suppose to be AAA games and all three games let me down big time. Motorstorm especially. Where is all the advantages of Blu ray and the Cell? Its a short game. The Graphics are sharp but textures are flat....The mud effects are laughable...and the average score of 8.2 is just not the AAA status it was hyped up to be. And I have to be honest. I actually thought it would be the first AAA game for the ps3. So, moral of this story...I will no longer fall for that BS. Not when it comes to ps3 games. Let down after let down has taken its toll on me.

Remember folks. History repeats itself. How many times in the history of gaming have you heard that same thing being said. "this game can only be done on this console. And of course it has nothing to do with trying to hype and sell the game to a console with bismal sales. Of course not. The whole interview he kept ssying that "his" game would be the "one" game that shows what the ps3 can do. Yeah, Ok. We will see. July we will see. I have no doubt it will be a "Good" game. I hope it will be a "Great" game. But, I'm not falling for the hype anymore when it comes to the ps3. Sony Die Hards do, because they need to. I don't need to. I play and enjoy every console and PC game released. All my hopes and dreams don't hang in the hands of Sony, like some others on this site.

Prey and Gears of Wars developers said the same thing. Who cares. They both said that their games could never be done on the ps3. And when I look at both of those games in action....and then I play my ps3 games. I can see the texture detail, HDR, AA, and Graphical fidelity is off the charts compared to PS3 games. Thats just being honest. We will soon see what Lair does. And I hope its Great as I am in need of a Great game for my Ps3.

And just like Scrumptious stated. Factor 5 is notorious for stating this same thing about all their previous exclusive games. Its super funny if you look back in history at what they claim. N64 folks....ha ha ha ha ha Gamecube? ha ha ha ha ha...Since the playstation days Nintendo has always been the inferior hardware. Thats never been their focus. Its always been about making an inexpensive "FUN" video game system. They know who they are and they aren't trying to be graphical powerhouses....but its clear that Factor 5 makes desperate attempts to boost the sales of their exclusive games no matter what system they develope the game for. Its a pattern of behavior that can't be over looked.

With that said. They are a very good company and I have no doubt Lair will will be a solid game.

"Motorstorm especially. Where is all the advantages of Blu ray and the Cell? Its a short game. The Graphics are sharp but textures are flat....The mud effects are laughable"

Really? These words from a guy that calls everyone liars when they give positive comments towards Playstation titles? Whoa, watch out now! Let's see which flat textures and laughable mud effects this 'true gamer' is lambasting about:

-32 X 32 km environments(twice as large from Oblivion's 'total' space
and in much more beauty, physics, interactivity and motion-sensing !!!)

-Everything simulated from water to clouds to smoke to particles to fur to fire...just everything from a live-action processor.

-So much gameplay variety with unhinched transition from ground to air battles, dragon moves and outstanding sixaxis manuvering.

-The TGS 2006 demo was 4GB in size so the total game will definitely be 20GB or so, not suitabl;e for the feeble 360.

If 360 could pull these thing they would've made it to do in the past 1 and a half year. The above things aren't even in the upcoming announced games too, so yeah all 360 can do is paint prettier than last-gen textures on last gen games HaHaHa !

Exactly..only lair can be done on the PS3..Its only obvious Fanboys all around will get owned when Games start showin off the PS3 Power..360 bring nothin new to the table at all..Teh Cell own you fanboys..In one year the 360 can only do gears of war..and it does look great but lair is more amazing..

Wow i find these comments so funny you people actually think you now something about these systems and what they can due i didnt know you guys/females were game developers and you've been working on theses systems Etc..... all you know is what people tell you which means you dont know jack **** because fact is anybody will say anything to make there company or the company there working for look good maybe one out of a few will tell the truth but thats a slim chance i say so next time you post your little comments wait a second and say to your self is this what i know and can prove or is this some crap someone told me and wants me to believe.

Nice try DJ. The game is out buddy. I and many others own the game and play it. It looks nothing like those screen shots you posted. But, its funny because thats how I thought it was going to look. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...But it absolutely doesn't. Don't get me wrong. It is the best looking ps3 game. But, its not nearly as impressive as the screen shots you posted...the same ones they were showing before the release of the actual game. But the texures are flat and the mud effecs are laughable buddy. And its all in 30 fps and 720p. WOW.

First off, the PS3 multiplatform games we have seen have been 360 ports for the most part. Any developer who is being honest will tell you, the PS3's architecture dictates that the best PS3 game be built for the PS3 from scratch. A 360 port will never look better because it will never be optimized for the PS3. Who's fault is that? Sony's of course. BUT just because it is harder to bring ports over, doesn't mean it was a fatal mistake. As the user base grows (or Sony buys more devs), more developers will take that plunge. Only time will tell in that respect.

What I am saying is, this whole "this game looks better on 360 or PS3" is nonsense unless you take that game and built it from scratch on both platforms.

Is there an issue with PS3 software right now? Oh yes...Sony has historically been late to get 3rd party devs the right tools to make great games on their uber-complicated consoles. No one can deny this. I say give the PS3 one year from launch, and if the situation hasn't changed, they're in trouble. Honestly though, Sony may still pull this thing out if they get their '10 year' life-cycle strategy working. Think about it..they will basically do to MS what MS has done to them so far. While MS is switching to another hardware platform, Sony will have 5 years of console sales behind it. Devs will naturally (assuming the installed base is decent) keep making games for the PS3..and if the Cell is all they say it is, we could potentially have some earth shattering games by then..and beyond...while MS is ramping up sales for their new platform. now, this is also assuming that MS launches new hardware in 4-5 years and doesn't just 'wait it out'. Who knows...should be interesting either way.

Guys/Gals, the 360's launch wasn't cake and ice cream either. When Xbox live launched, it wasn't seamless. Again, all I'm saying is give all console manufacturers the same amount of slack or criticism. When you compare games, compare apples to oranges. Know the history of the game dev cycle before making 'it's better on 360 or PS3' comments. Yeah, it may look better on PS3, but maybe it was a port! is that the 360's fault. Nope..it's the dev's fault.