...the reason Andrea became pissy with Dale in general--even after she was seemingly over his suicide intervention. Dale seem to want to mold her into his fantasy--someone who shared his beliefs (and hang ups).

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I only saw someone who saved her life and continued to worry about her and tried to cultivate in her a healthier state of mind.

He didn't save her. He guilt-tripped her - and only her (that other people were going to also commit suicide is besides the point). And after that he's seen confiscating her gun and generally treating her like his ward, which she's not. She's an adult and a lawyer, and this kind of infantilizing presumptiveness was pretty uncomfortable.

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She was going to commit suicide. She may be an adult and a lawyer, but she was going to commit suicide. He saved her and continued to watch over her. Have you never-- either in fiction or, perish forbid, in real life-- known someone who was self destructive, needed help, was resistant to that help and needed to be pushed and prodded in whatever way is necessary? Because it happens quite frequently, even when there's not a Zombie Apocalypse on.

Other than that scene her relationship to Daryl has never implied the kind of mind games Dale played with Andrea. She's never demanded Daryl give his weapons to her, treat him like he's her non-adult son. So far as I can remember she never tried to guilt trip him either (but there was a lot of stuff going on about Sophia and it could be a scene has slipped my mind).

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She would have no need to take his weapons, since he never tried to commit suicide. And she did try various approaches to getting through his defenses by appealing to his feelings, as happens in relationships between people.

Have you never-- either in fiction or, perish forbid, in real life-- known someone who was self destructive, needed help, was resistant to that help and needed to be pushed and prodded in whatever way is necessary?

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And so he didn't insist Jacqui leave with him... why?

Precisely.

This isn't about Andrea. This is about him. She doesn't get to do that to him, because he wants her. As a friend, a daughter, a lover, in what sense he wants her is not as important as the knowledge that he wants her and he will do what he can to keep a hold on that. After this display he thinks he deserves a medal or something, or at least, automatically, love and trust from Andrea (even as he holds on to her gun).

Yes? I always thought Carol was a little older than Daryl, although it's true people often assume the age gap is significantly bigger probably due to the fact Carol has grey hair and Daryl does not (Melissa McBride is 47, Norman Reedus is 43).

It's a much smaller age gap than the one between Dale and Andrea, though, however one splices it.

that's hardly an age difference that is worth mentioning though. Unless you are teenagers a 4 year difference is nothing.

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That's true. It's also true even if Norman Reedus is playing a character younger than his age (Lauren Cohan is 30 but Maggie is 22, Emiley Kinney is 28 but Beth is 17) and/or Carol is playing older. However different the ages of Daryl and Carol are, it's not an equivalent gap to Dale and Andrea.

Andrea was a Civil Rights lawyer. Given that informed background, it makes sense for her to already agree with Dale on a lot of things.

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Apparently Dale assumed too much, as she had another side Dale did not consider, hence her rapid move toward being a wannabe asskicker/gunslinger and sharing some of Shane's worldview--the polar opposite of Dale.

I don't really remember Jacqui, so I'd have to rewatch to know for sure, but presumably, in the heat of the crisis, he focused on his friend.

This isn't about Andrea. This is about him. She doesn't get to do that to him, because he wants her. As a friend, a daughter, a lover, in what sense he wants her is not as important as the knowledge that he wants her and he will do what he can to keep a hold on that. After this display he thinks he deserves a medal or something, or at least, automatically, love and trust from Andrea (even as he holds on to her gun).

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That's just a negative spin on him caring about her-- you can make any relationship sound selfish in that way. The point is that he cared enough about her to save her, to even risk his own life to save her, and then kept an eye on her, and kept dangerous things away from her when she continued to exhibit suicidal behavior. There's nothing creepy about that in the slightest.

Well if you can't remember one of the biggest dick moves Dale pulled, that might be why you look at him so favourably. Man literally did not care if Jacqui died, but then, Jacqui's not the one he had an interest in.

That's just a negative spin on him caring about her-- you can make any relationship sound selfish in that way.

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Someone assuming a guardian role of an adult with whom you have no relationship with (but may desire one) is not just something that sounds pretty selfish, it's not something you find in any realtionship. It's why the comparisons to Rick and Lori and Daryl and Carol don't wash - those are relationships which both parties entered into willingly. Dale pushed himself on Andrea.

Well if you can't remember one of the biggest dick moves Dale pulled, that might be why you look at him so favourably. Man literally did not care if Jacqui died, but then, Jacqui's not the one he had an interest in.

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Maybe or maybe not. Nobody's perfect. Again, in a time of crisis, people tend to focus on their friends over strangers.

Someone assuming a guardian role of an adult with whom you have no relationship with (but may desire one) is not just something that sounds pretty selfish, it's not something you find in any realtionship. It's why the comparisons to Rick and Lori and Daryl and Carol don't wash - those are relationships which both parties entered into willingly. Dale pushed himself on Andrea.

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And again, this happens all the time with people who are suicidal or otherwise self-destructive. You've got to keep pushing until you get through to them. I'm surprised you're not aware of something so basic.

Maybe or maybe not. Nobody's perfect. Again, in a time of crisis, people tend to focus on their friends over strangers.

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Jacqui was no stranger to Dale by that point, as the group had been together for some time. Remember, Dale's the guy running around trying to preach unity (his kind, in any case), so for Mr. Let's Preserve Humanity to focus on Andrea and not try to plead with Jacqui as well makes him appear single-minded (like a desperate teenager who gets tunnelvision), as Andrea was the target of his personal interest.

And again, this happens all the time with people who are suicidal or otherwise self-destructive. You've got to keep pushing until you get through to them.

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Questionable with regard to Dale as he had no interest in doing that if that someone wasn't Andrea. Dale even concedes when demanding Andrea can't die that he has a personal stake in this, that how dare she end her life when he cares about her.

I guess I need to rewatch the earlier episodes, because it seems to me, it's a bit much to claim that Dale had no relationship to Andrea and just decided to play Daddy out of nowhere. I'm prety sure I recall them being good friends, and Andrea hanging out with him, and in the RV of her own accord. Yes, she was angry at hm, for playing daddy, especially when he took her gun (That was definitely very questionable, considering the Zombie dangers), but, I don't believe he inserted himself into that position without being encouraged through an already developed frienship

I guess I need to rewatch the earlier episodes, because it seems to me, it's a bit much to claim that Dale had no relationship to Andrea and just decided to play Daddy out of nowhere. I'm prety sure I recall them being good friends, and Andrea hanging out with him, and in the RV of her own accord. Yes, she was angry at hm, for playing daddy, especially when he took her gun (That was definitely very questionable, considering the Zombie dangers), but, I don't believe he inserted himself into that position without being encouraged through an already developed frienship

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what about when he took all the guns. Can we agree at least that it was crazy and showed his need to control everyone else's behaviour?

I guess I need to rewatch the earlier episodes, because it seems to me, it's a bit much to claim that Dale had no relationship to Andrea and just decided to play Daddy out of nowhere. I'm prety sure I recall them being good friends, and Andrea hanging out with him, and in the RV of her own accord. Yes, she was angry at hm, for playing daddy, especially when he took her gun (That was definitely very questionable, considering the Zombie dangers), but, I don't believe he inserted himself into that position without being encouraged through an already developed frienship

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what about when he took all the guns. Can we agree at least that it was crazy and showed his need to control everyone else's behaviour?

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Oh, absolutely. I wasn't trying to defend his every action, everyone's got something we can grumble about.

I was just opposed to this idea, that Dale started trying to play Andrea's Daddy from out of nowhere, because I believe I remember them being good friends

^^ Right. The idea that saving somebody from suicide is creepy is just wrong.

I'm drawing a blank on Jacqui and the Wiki page doesn't help much, so I'd have to rewatch to remind myself. But, again, whatever he did or didn't do for Jacqui doesn't make what he did do for Andrea creepy.

^^ Right. The idea that saving somebody from suicide is creepy is just wrong.

I'm drawing a blank on Jacqui and the Wiki page doesn't help much, so I'd have to rewatch to remind myself. But, again, whatever he did or didn't do for Jacqui doesn't make what he did do for Andrea creepy.

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well they were all standing in the same room that is counting down to an explosion, the Dr. and Jacqui say they are going to stay and die. Andrea says she is staying too. Dale tells Andrea if she is staying he is too. Andrea leaves so Dale will leave.

* I seems pretty obvious that zombies go dormant if they haven't fed in awhile, and only become active again when they hear or spot prey. Would explain why we see so many deserted city streets and town in the show. The zombie that got Herchel is probably an example. Would explain how they can carry on for extended periods.

* I do hope the Governor gets a chance to explain his side. I've always been astounded at how anyone could think that way towards their fellow man. I'd like to at least try to understand.

* Anyone else get a George Bush vibe from his "The terrorists want to destroy our freedom!" vibe?

* Don't see Merle coming back to the group. He'd turn into Shane 2.0 pretty darn quickly. My guess? He turns on the Governor and they both go out together.

* Maybe I'm too civilized to survive a zombie apocolypse. I hate how people are constantly killing one another and happily turning away survivors unless they prove themselves useful. Humanities going to have a hard enough time recovering without us doing the zombies work for them.
Assuming anyone survives, it looks like society is in for several centuries of tribalism and small-time warlords fighting amongst themselves.

* As for the end of the series? Anything but "And they all died. The end."
Actually, a "Ten Years Later..." title card featuring a small walled town with plowed fields of crops, and kids and dogs playing in the street would be my preferred end. Nothing definate, but very, very hopeful.

^^ Right. The idea that saving somebody from suicide is creepy is just wrong.

I'm drawing a blank on Jacqui and the Wiki page doesn't help much, so I'd have to rewatch to remind myself. But, again, whatever he did or didn't do for Jacqui doesn't make what he did do for Andrea creepy.

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well they were all standing in the same room that is counting down to an explosion, the Dr. and Jacqui say they are going to stay and die. Andrea says she is staying too. Dale tells Andrea if she is staying he is too. Andrea leaves so Dale will leave.

Dr. and Jacqui blow up.

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So he didn't try to save the doctor, either. With only a few seconds to act, he focused on his friend. That's pretty much what anyone would do. Anybody but Lori, anyway.