What I find the most interesting about all of this is how people are listening to PETA again after years of their sexist, racist, and fat phobic shenanigans.

_________________A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-DubDessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. FezzaYou people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!

What I find the most interesting about all of this is how people are listening to PETA again after years of their sexist, racist, and fat phobic shenanigans.

I agree. Somehow they are a reputable source, but only for this topic...?

I've not really looked into this but is there another source? Most bloggers are quoting PETA.

_________________A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-DubDessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. FezzaYou people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!

I don't know much about this either but it is depressing the hell out of me.

So this news about Revlon selling in China seems to have broken in June of this year? I found a transcript of Revlon's earnings from a CEO meeting from April 2011 and they were referencing sales in China then. I didn't read the whole thing, I only skimmed till I got to the China part. Here's the link if anyone is interested.http://seekingalpha.com/article/266345- ... art=single

But if they were selling, (and testing???) back in 2011 why are we and PETA just getting wind of it now?

I don't care for Peta, but as far as I know the only organizations in the US that maintain lists of cruelty free brands are Peta and Leaping Bunny. For me personally I don't support Peta or their tactics, but I think they can still provide useful information.

I didn't post this to shame anyone, or to endorse Peta, just to share information.

edited to remove the part where I got bisque-y and defensive. Because it wasn't cool.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

Revlon is publicly traded and I would be shocked if they only recently entered the Chinese market. It's the biggest emerging consumer markets.

If the worst thing someone can say about you is that you buy Mitchum deodorant, you are doing pretty good. Do the best you can and remember that you can't be perfect. People who live in the middle of nowhere on a limited budget are not going to mail order fancypantscrystalmagicvegan deodorant. I think Jessilikewhoa does a good job when she talks about consumer goods of including less spendy brands.

_________________A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-DubDessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. FezzaYou people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!

I've seen that info about Mary Kay working for regulatory change in China from multiple sources. I know Urban Decay said the same thing, but somehow it feels different coming from Mary Kay? I don't know why, maybe because I'm seeing these organizations say it, not Mary Kay themselves. I'm not going to rush out and buy Mary Kay, but if I see evidence that their efforts actually pan out I'm going to reward them with my wallet.

And I pretty much fit that limited budget rural profile. I list Joliet as my location, but that's because it's the nearest small city people might have heard of. It's actually about 30 minutes away by car. I live in a town of 5,000 people surrounded by cornfields and industrial sites. We have two grocery stores here in town, but neither is a big chain. There's a local drugstore, but not big chains for that either. We have a Dollar General too. If I didn't have the privilege of access to a car I could still be vegan here, but it would only be the sort of brands I tend to focus on. Nobody in my town even sells Revlon or Almay, but the drugstore has Wet n Wild, and the Dollar General has LA Colors, and one of the grocery stores has some products from White Rain.

I do most of my shopping either 30 minutes one direction, or 30 the other. I'm not as limited as just what I listed above, I have access to Ulta, Walgreens, CVS, and one of the healthfood stores I go to has Zuzu Luxe, but when I see the prices on foundations from brands like Face Atelier I flinch. Even Urban Decay or Zuzu Luxe is too spendy for something I go through that fast. So my go to has been to use a cheap foundation, it has been Almay, then mix it with a tiny bit of tinted moisturizer as foundation from OCC in order to stretch the more expensive stuff and get a better more realistic color, because drugstore foundations are generally awful for getting color right. The Almay stuff was sort of grey. I bought a Wet n Wild one from their vegan list to try before I run out of my Almay one, but it's pretty pinky orange, and I'm glow in the dark white, so we'll see, I've only swatched it on my hand, by itself so far. If it doesn't work I'll explore my other options from WnW, and I'll check out what Elf has, and if Physician's Formula gets back to me I'll try one of theirs, but if not I'll probably keep using Almay. And I'll feel conflicted, same as I do when I use Tom's toothpaste or my Burt's Bees astringent.

Again, sorry if I was hostile at all earlier, PMDD is a crappy excuse, but it's my crappy excuse. The very long nap I took helped.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

NAVS recognizes your desire to support companies that do not test their products or ingredients on animals. Unfortunately, this may be more difficult for all of us now due to international regulatory mandates.

makes me want to cry.

It shouldn't be this hard. I lay down for my nap earlier and I got to thinking about how I wasn't being a bisque because I was upset with you guys, or even with companies who have begun testing or countries that require it, at least not entirely. I was upset, and still am, that human beings everywhere still haven't evolved to have enough compassion to see as a people just how absurdly wrong it is to test cosmetics on animals. Being extremely generous with my time frame here I can say unequivocally that we as industrialized society have practiced better living through chemistry for a good 50 years. Realistically I'd say it's been since the end of the industrial revolution, but like I said, generous time frame. Shouldn't 50 years of data and materials be enough? Because we still have brands in the US that test in the pursuit of "new, now, better" and it sucks.

And I write letters and I post on facebook walls and I sign petitions, but besides that I feel powerless. I lack the constitution for illegal direct action, and I feel like there's this whole inactive grey area of nothingness beyond letter writing, where I spend most of my time. I'd say we should stage a mass protest at Revlon's HQ, but I feel like even if we tried a lot of animal rights people wouldn't show up, because makeup is frivolous lady business, and not important enough.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

I am so discouraged, disgusted, and frustrated. I feel that as a society (or as a "joke" of a civilization) we are going backwards rather than forwards. This whole China testing debacle is just more proof to me that as a society we are doomed. Just going to do ourselves in with our own greed and lack of ethics.

I called Revlon this morning and got pretty much what I expected. They read me their "animal testing letter" which started off by saying Revlon complies with all laws regarding animal testing (boo! hiss!). The letter went on to list all the things Revlon has done to eliminate testing and how they comply w/ the European ban. Blah, blah, blah....I said my piece which was basically that reading through the lines I could tell they were testing in China and unless/until that changed they'd lost my business.

but the drugstore has Wet n Wild, and the Dollar General has LA Colors, and one of the grocery stores has some products from White Rain.

I live around the block from a Dollar General (opened up like 3 months ago) and have been twice for mailing supplies. I must go look for LA Colors now!

I grew up using cheap makeup, mostly WnW. I hung out with a lot of cholas and rockers in junior high & high school. We all come from working class families. I learned from them how to get the best use of cheap makeup & make it work. Even when my mom bought me a Clinique lipstick in junior high (due to a Macy's promo at her work) I did not like it. When I started playing with makeup more my Senior year my big purchase was a Makeup Forever lipstick on a school trip to SF.

Right now I use a lot of ELF stuff. I live in the middle of town, in the middle of two Targets. I mix in a few high end items. My biggest spending is on face lotion, only one seems to work. For any holiday I ask for g/c to Ulta and Sephora. For my bday my boyfriend bought me a Clairsonic Mia...Love it.

I am still trying to find a decent replacement for my nude MAC paint pot and a good stick concealer to replace Smashbox...I am glad that ELF is still here because I would be lost without my bronzer, color correcting powder and liquid liner.

The new OCC concealers are in pots, not a stick, but they're supposed to be amazing, and the amount in the pans is pretty good for the price. 8.5 grams for $20.

I like Elf for their eyeshadow primer, lipsticks, studio blushes, and some eyeshadows, but whenever a powder or foundation from their dollar line goes on my face I break out like crazy. I'm hoping the studio foundation works better.

I just got an email from Kryolan about their products, I emailed a bunch of pro/theatrical companies. Some of the email was good news, that when they revamp their website they plan to have full ingredient lists for every product and color, and that the new website should launch this fall. But then there was this

Quote:

Many of our products are vegan, but not all colors in those may be, depending on the pigments used. For example, the only red pigment allowed next to the eyes by the FDA is Carmine, which is derived from insect exoskeletons. So any reds, oranges, purples, pinks in eyeshadow or related products might contain this pigment.

If that's true either a bunch of red/pink/orange shadows I bought from cheap brands like Kleancolor and NYX have the wrong ingredients listed, or they're colored with something that isn't approved as eye safe. Either way, I'm a bit freaked out.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

That isn't exactly true, it's hard to get a bright 'true' red without carmine, but plenty of companies make reds (usually brick colored) and pinks without carmine or being not safe for eyes. I believe Red 40 is another option, but I think carmine is usually chosen over it because Red 40 has been tested and shown to be really bad for you.

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

That's comforting, I mean I guess it's not great if I'm rubbing something really bad for me on my eyes, but it hasn't killed me yet, so I'm ok.

I don't know how much attention Revlon is paying to us and Peta and our letters right now. I just checked out their facebook page to see if they had responded about testing, or if more people had questioned them about it, and instead I found the political left in the US announcing their boycott of Revlon because their owner threw a Hamptons fundraiser for Mitt Romney.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

Hmm that might not be that case. I'm actually fiddling around with making my own lipsticks lately and the place I order the pigments and waxes from lists safety approvals eyes/lips/face for each pigment and there are tons of different reds/pinks/purples/oranges and many of them are listed as safe for all three. The site is pretty clear when pigments aren't safe for eyes/eyes and certain of their pigments are only rated as tints for soaps/candles .

Also while I know MAC have gone to the dark side , my beloved Orange eyeshadow from them is free of carmine. OCC also have several reds/pinks/oranges/purples eye colors and they are all vegan , all clean label. I'd take that comment about carmine with a grain of salt.

I tried the Tom's Clinical strength...It is supposed to work for 24 hours...Um not even an hour of gym time for me...

Same for me. I am going to have to use Mitchum. Regardless just like I have to take some non-vegan meds. It just upsets me

I'm not trying to persuade you from the Mitchum, I still own some and am putting off thinking about whether I'll repurchase it when I run out, but if you haven't tried Certain-Dri, give it a go! It's strong stuff, so I don't use it all the time - like if I just shaved my pits it's a no, but otherwise I recommend it to anyone who wants to not have pit stains.

I'm not trying to persuade you from the Mitchum, I still own some and am putting off thinking about whether I'll repurchase it when I run out, but if you haven't tried Certain-Dri, give it a go! It's strong stuff, so I don't use it all the time - like if I just shaved my pits it's a no, but otherwise I recommend it to anyone who wants to not have pit stains.

Can I find it at Target, Rite Aide or Walgreens? I sweat but my problem brought on by sweat is I get stinky...very acidic or something.

Certain-dri is weird. No breakout but my scent reacts with it. Also I can't find it in unscented so I'm sure that's the reason. My all time favorite deodorant was from Melaluca.... Who tests on animals. But I think they got rid of it anyway

_________________~Sweet songs the youth, the wise, the meeting of all wisdom. To believe in the good in man.

FYI, I also got an awesome reply from CVS regarding their animal testing stance, so this just confirms what was stated earlier in this thread:

Quote:

Thank you for contacting CVS in regards to our testing on animals. I will be happy to further assist you. Prior to acceptance as a CVS Brand product, potential new store products must demonstrate compliance through rigorous testing with all quality standard requirements as detailed in our Test Requirements protocol. This protocol specifically states animal testing is prohibited. In addition to testing, the supplier must have on file the documentation to substantiate their products are not tested on animals and do not use adulterated materials.

JanineCVS Customer Relations

_________________"If I were M. de la Viandeviande, I would now write a thirteen page post about how you have to have free will to be vegan, but modern science does not suggest any evidence for free will, therefore it is impossible to be vegan." -mumbles

me too! I'm also a CVS rewards card junkie and it would have pained me to give that up.

_________________"If I were M. de la Viandeviande, I would now write a thirteen page post about how you have to have free will to be vegan, but modern science does not suggest any evidence for free will, therefore it is impossible to be vegan." -mumbles