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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

I have been considering FATAR Numa Nano/ Nero / Piano in the past. But because of a complete lack of pro- or user reviews, the absence of any demo units in the stores and the total silence you will encounter when you try to obtain any information from Fatar / Studiologic through email or website, I gave up. Under other circumstances I would give it a try, but for now FATAR/StudioLogic is "hands-off". Too big a risk that you end up with a big disappointment. And who do you turn to then...?

According to the very few remarks that are out there the TP100 is quite OK, but really NOT comparable to a realistic piano keybed (like RM3 ?). And the piano sounds in the Numa Piano are so..so; more the sound of yesterdays short and looped piano samples then modern implementations. I don't expect it to be better than let's say the Casio PX3-BK, but that's only from the very limited data I could gather. If you are in any position to try a Numa board anywhere in a store, that would be great, but I assume you posted this thread because they are nowhere to be found ;-)

I have been waiting for YEARS for a MIDI controller like the Studiologic NUMA. I play solo piano and have NO need for internal sounds. All I wanted was a shiny black case with no knobs or sliders with an amazing piano action that would send MIDI data to my PC. So I was stoked when I saw this thing!! Let's say that it hits 4 out of the 5 items on my list but unfortunately, the one it misses SERIOUSLY is a deal-breaker... the action is so NOT like a piano.

I got one a few weeks ago (mail order) and sent it back after two days. The action is VERY heavy and very synth-like. Odd! Acoustic piano action should have a little bounce to it when you strike the key and remove your finger. The action on the NUMA seems to constantly push your finger back up - very spongy, just like a synth key.

And it ships with a momentary switch as its damper pedal. Holy COW what a mistake this is. It's just impossible to play piano expressively without half-pedaling and that requires a continuous controller pedal. The NUMA is extrememly finicky as to which continuous controller pedals it wants to play nice with. I was unable to get it working with two different manufacturer's pedals (could get it to send continuous data but the damper would remain up no matter what position the foot pedal was in).

Take my critisisms as those of a solo pianist. Your needs may differ. Asthetically, it's perfect. Performance-wise, it's far from perfect.

NOW, if we could get the Kawai RM3 action inside a shiny black box with no knobs or sliders.... YYEEEAHH!!

I personally enjoy my Nero quite a bit and find the touch more satisfying to play on than other similarly-priced models. I played on a bunch of Roland HP-307s, most of which had a similar touch... but at 3x the price.

I played *one* HP-307 that had the best touch I have ever experienced, but didn't have the funds back then to buy it. It was a demo and had been played by a whole bunch of people, so I'm unsure if the fantastic touch I felt was an anomaly or simply the result of it being broken in.

The Numa Nero for my needs is fantastic. It's compact, light, the touch is great and a huge upgrade from what I previously had used, and it didn't cost me 3k or more.

I'm willing to spend to get quality, but until I find a better touch that I can test prior to forking over 3x or more what my Nero costs, I'll stick with my Fatar.

FTR, I never tried the RM3 action as we don't have any Kawai dealers in Toronto. None that I ever saw, anyway.

I recently bought a Numa Piano and I absolutely love this thing. Through the years I've owned several Kurzweils (K-1000/PC3), Yamahas (S90-ES), Nords (Stage/E3) and there were things that I liked and disliked about each. Some worked well by themselves, but not in a band mix (Kurzweil/Nord), and some sounded great in a mix, but didn't sound like an acoustic piano by themselves (S90 ES). What I had been looking for was a keyboard that "felt" like a piano and sounded like a piano by itself & in the mix, and wouldn't break my back to move. The Numa nailed my criteria to a "T". The fact that it's a great controller, and came in way under my budget is a real bonus. It's a shame that there aren't many out there for people to check out. Everybody that has played mine has really dug it.

I recently bought a Numa Piano and I absolutely love this thing. Through the years I've owned several Kurzweils (K-1000/PC3), Yamahas (S90-ES), Nords (Stage/E3) and there were things that I liked and disliked about each. Some worked well by themselves, but not in a band mix (Kurzweil/Nord), and some sounded great in a mix, but didn't sound like an acoustic piano by themselves (S90 ES). What I had been looking for was a keyboard that "felt" like a piano and sounded like a piano by itself & in the mix, and wouldn't break my back to move. The Numa nailed my criteria to a "T". The fact that it's a great controller, and came in way under my budget is a real bonus. It's a shame that there aren't many out there for people to check out. Everybody that has played mine has really dug it.

TomF, compared to the pianos in the same $1.5k bracket (Kawai MP6, Kurzweil SP4-8, Roland RD300NX, Yamaha CP50 [the latter two a little more expensive] ), on paper the Numa Piano seems to fall short in what it offers. Others have suggested that the Casio PX-3 outshines the Numa at half the price. Did you pay the full price, and if so, is it really worth that?

Certainly the weight is appealing, but are the sounds up there with the likes of Roland SN and Kawai's new samples for example? What's the build quality like?

Having the Numa Organ already, I'm very keen to know more about the piano, but of course, no one I know of has the Numa available to try.

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

I played the Numa Piano at Namm in Jan. As I might have written here or the Keyboard Corner, I was very surprised and impressed at how good it sounded and played. It seemed pretty responsive with an even sound and action throughout the keyboard. I much preferred it to the Kurzweil SP4-8, which shared the same corporate booth and was a few yards away. For the short time I had with it and considering the din of Namm, I also liked it as much or better then the Roland 300NX. The build quality seemed equal to the Casio (fairly cheap) but I thought it played and sounded better.

I would consider having one for a lightweight board except for one thing---they only came in white. Sorry can't do white.....

If the color doesn't bother you, I think it's a pretty cool little DP, at least those were my first impressions.

Funny, according to the specs, the NUMA Nano, Numa Piano AND Kurzweil SP4-8 all use the same TP100 keybed. Strange that the Kurzweil had such a different feel. I assume it was not the tactile feel of the keybed, but the interaction between the keybed and the internal sound engine ?

In that case a Numa Nano with a nice software piano is not such a bad option either.

Or the SP4-8 after all, if you're pretending the internal sounds is just a free gift and use your own sounds. It will provide you more sturdy hardware than the Numa Nano, better and more reliable MIDI implementation AND a company behind it that actually cares about their customers and monitors feedback and supplies firmware updates on a regular basis with fixes and enhancements...(try contacting FATAR/STUDIOLOGIC its as if they don't exist).

I've got a PX-3 that I use for rehearsals, and while it is a nice keyboard for the price, it isn't even close to the Numa. Sound and even actions are very subjective, but I prefer all of the sounds (piano/EP/Clav) on the Numa to those on my Nord Stage Classic (except organ). The strings are also really nice. I also prefer the Numa action to that of my Stage. The unit also weighs a lot less and cost a lot less than the stage. I don't own a Roland 300RD300NX, but I have played one and I preferred the action and sounds of the Numa, but the Roland has a LOT more internal sounds than the Numa. I can't comment on the new Kurzweil or new Kawai because I haven't played one. The Kurzweils that I have owned tended to sound nice when played solo, but tended to not cut well in the mix. I do like the Yamaha CPs (I play one at church) a lot, but I was looking for something that weighed a lot less and worked better as a controller. I also have a Numa organ and consider the build quality of both to be excellent and feel that they are both well worth the money.

Hi TomCan you comment on the amount of decay on the Numa piano sound? Typical pre 2010 sound that drops quickly? or does it actually ring out at a descent level? It sounds like a neat DP and I'm surprised to hear that you prefer the sound over the RD300NX (Piano sound I suppose)

The decay is very smooth, long, and natural sounding (as in a good grand piano). To quantify that, I just hit middle C, and it sustained smoothly for 12 seconds. I really don't know for sure, but I suspect that the sound is both sampled and modeled since there is no detectable "looping" going on, and the sound is much smoother than samples generally sound. I think there is a lot of confusion between the Numa/Numa Nero/Numa Nano & Numa Piano. Any review (or comments) that you have read prior to Jan 2011 do NOT refer to the Numa Piano, they are referring to one of the other products since the Numa Piano was just released this year. I've always liked Roland pianos, and of course, it's all very subjective, but I've found that the Roland pianos sound great "in the mix" with a lot of music, but wouldn't be my first choice for a solo piano gig playing jazz or classical music. I gig regularly with an 8 piece R&B group, a 5 piece blues band, a jazz piano trio, and do an occasional solo piano jazz gig and the Numa Piano does a great job for me on all these venues.

Would you care to comment on the EPs - what sort of character do they have?

BTW, since I've read a few glowing reports from you on the Numa Piano, do you mind me asking whether you have any kind of tie-in with the manufacturer? I'm looking for a replacement for my NP88 (just sold) and need some completely unbiased opinions (if you know what I mean!).

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

The only thing I've seen on the Numa Piano is a couple YouTube videos of Joey D playing one. It sounds good in the video. I haven't seen one at any music store around Nashville.

Side note, Tom F, have you played the Nord Piano? It has a Nord spec/modified Fatar TP40 action. The action isn't comparable to the top of line actions from Kawai, Roland, or Yamaha, but it beats the pants out of Korg and Casio, and more importantly it's as responsive and works with the internal sounds of the NP88 as well as any. I wonder how the TP100 compares to the TP40.

_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1Nord Piano 2

"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

No, I have no association with Numa or any other manufacturer. Anything I post is strictly MY opinion. The Numa has 3 EPs. I love the Rhodes sound, it sounds a LOT like a suitcase Rhodes (especially with the Tremolo effect) I had years ago. The 2nd EP is a Wurliter, which is also excellent, and the third is a DX7 sounding EP which I'm not in love with, but it's ok. The clav is killer! My favorite digital clav sound was on my Yamaha S90ES, and this one really reminds me of it (especially using Chorus or Phaser). I've never owned (or even played) an NP88, so I really don't want to attempt to compare the Numa to one, but I do prefer the sound of the acoustic pianos/EPs & clav on the Numa to those in my Nord Stage and my Electro 3. It's really hard to describe the differences in sound ... it's really more of a "playability" thing. Sometimes the Nords sounded good to me (they always recorded well and sounded great with headphones) but sometimes I was frustrated trying to get a good "live" sound. The Numa is always a pleasure to sit down and play.

Thanks for that info. I do also have one question about the action. I was watching a YouTube video demoing the internal sounds, and it looked a little like the guy had difficulty with getting notes to trigger accurately at lower velocities. How do you find the TP100 action in the Numa Piano? I know it's a compromise based on keeping the weight right down, but can you play expressively throughout the dynamic range?

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

I haven't played the Nord Piano and I don't know if it's different than the Stage or not. I like the action on the Stage though and the Numa Piano has a "similar" feel. The differences are; the Numa has a "graded" action like a grand piano (and high end digitals like Yamaha/Roland/Kawai etc.), and it also has a number (I don't know how many offhand) of different velocities than can be selected. It also has a "user definable" velocity. You just select "user", and play for a bit, and it analyzes your touch and gives you your own velocity setting to use. It's kind of cool, but I haven't messed with it much, the "stock" settings work well for me. I personally really like the action and rank it with the Yamahas and Rolands. BTW: I almost didn't buy the Numa Piano due to the color ... I HATED it! I was hoping it would grow on my (like the Red did), but I still don't really like it yet, but I have learned to live with it!

I haven't played the Nord Piano and I don't know if it's different than the Stage or not. I like the action on the Stage though and the Numa Piano has a "similar" feel. The differences are; the Numa has a "graded" action like a grand piano (and high end digitals like Yamaha/Roland/Kawai etc.), and it also has a number (I don't know how many offhand) of different velocities than can be selected. It also has a "user definable" velocity. You just select "user", and play for a bit, and it analyzes your touch and gives you your own velocity setting to use. It's kind of cool, but I haven't messed with it much, the "stock" settings work well for me. I personally really like the action and rank it with the Yamahas and Rolands. BTW: I almost didn't buy the Numa Piano due to the color ... I HATED it! I was hoping it would grow on my (like the Red did), but I still don't really like it yet, but I have learned to live with it!

Tom thanks so much. Sorry we're all picking your brain! But I appreciate your input. It appears that the Numa Piano has a superior action for piano playing than the NP88. I personally would love to have a graded action, and the User Velocity setting is absolutely brilliant.

Hey and if you don't like the color, surely you could have someone turn the white parts to black.

Vox, so the NP88 ended up not working out for you? I feel a little responsible for you forking out the dough... sorry man. I really believe in the NP88 and Nord's approach to producing and supporting professional instruments. I admit, I've been a bit of a loud mouth cheerleader when it comes to the NP88. I works really well for me, but it's obviously not for everyone. Shoot, I feel guilty now for talking you into it!

_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1Nord Piano 2

"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Vox, so the NP88 ended up not working out for you? I feel a little responsible for you forking out the dough... sorry man. I really believe in the NP88 and Nord's approach to producing and supporting professional instruments. I admit, I've been a bit of a loud mouth cheerleader when it comes to the NP88. I works really well for me, but it's obviously not for everyone. Shoot, I feel guilty now for talking you into it!

Zac, I bought it because I was really curious and really hoping it would work out - and it was very useful to have your opinion. I was already a little on the fence having owned the Electro 3 and not finding it quite right for me, so it's not like I was going in totally blind. Please don't feel guilty!!

There were many things I liked about the NP: the sensible weight, the intuitive layout, the Live section, the downloadable pianos, the quality of sound output. In the end, though, it was something indefinable about the nature of the samples that didn't quite speak to me eloquently enough. Having previously owned a piano with a good deal of physical modeling involved, I think I was subconsciously hoping for that more "alive" sound and responsive dynamics that modeling provides; that is something very difficult to recreate with velocity-fixed samples. Maybe that's why I find the FP-7F more playable as a piano, since there is something more than just samples involved.

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

Vox, so the NP88 ended up not working out for you? I feel a little responsible for you forking out the dough... sorry man. I really believe in the NP88 and Nord's approach to producing and supporting professional instruments. I admit, I've been a bit of a loud mouth cheerleader when it comes to the NP88. I works really well for me, but it's obviously not for everyone. Shoot, I feel guilty now for talking you into it!

Zac, I bought it because I was really curious and really hoping it would work out - and it was very useful to have your opinion. I was already a little on the fence having owned the Electro 3 and not finding it quite right for me, so it's not like I was going in totally blind. Please don't feel guilty!!

There were many things I liked about the NP: the sensible weight, the intuitive layout, the Live section, the downloadable pianos, the quality of sound output. In the end, though, it was something indefinable about the nature of the samples that didn't quite speak to me eloquently enough. Having previously owned a piano with a good deal of physical modeling involved, I think I was subconsciously hoping for that more "alive" sound and responsive dynamics that modeling provides; that is something very difficult to recreate with velocity-fixed samples. Maybe that's why I find the FP-7F more playable as a piano, since there is something more than just samples involved.

Well, I still feel a little guilty for boasting so much about it. In the end, all the matters is how it agrees with you. You know what's crazy, is the NP88 samples to me, absolutely blow the AvantGrand samples out of the water. The AG N1 sounds rather dead with headphones in comparison to the Nord's imperfect samples loaded with modeled string/sympathetic resonance and that pedal sample is too cool...and you can turn all the extra sounds off when/if you don't want them.

I agree with you, for now, the Sampled/Modeled approach seems to be the way to go. Now if Nord could launch a series of samples from the various acoustic piano companies and then add modeling to them as well *faint* that'd be the sound to beat. What will you use to replace the NP88? Perhaps the Numa Piano?

_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1Nord Piano 2

"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

I'm back on that nauseating merry-go-round where I really can't decide. Tom really likes his Numa Piano, but will I? It's really down to the Numa and the Kawai MP6. The Numa is lightweight, but the Kawai has, by all accounts, a really accomplished action.

I've crossed the Roland RD-300NX and FP-4F off the list - I'm really not that taken with Roland's EPs. The Yamaha CP50 is going to give me conniptions with that interface during a show. The Korg SV-1's APs were lackluster IMO (although I've not tried Soundpack 2). Maybe I could just add a GEM RP-X to one of my Rolands, but I'm not a fan of MIDI-linked devices.

I've been through so many DPs in the last couple of years, and in some ways, for live use, I found the humble (and outdated) Casio PX-310 and the Korg SP250 as good as much, much more expensive boards. Go figure!

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

OK, I decided to take a gamble on the NUMA. I'm a little bit fearful, given Studiologic's not-so-good reputation for reliability - and the rather condensed action - but the NUMA organ has been fine so far, apart from a couple of minor software bugs. I would very much like to have tried the MP6, but I really need to focus on keeping the weight down.

I listened quite a few times to the various Italian demos, and the AP samples seem quite nice. It's not so easy to tell with the EPs (people keep playing FM pianos in demos, which I dislike with a vengeance!), but EP1 seems quite expressive. If, in total, it proves to be better than my FP-4, I'll be happy.

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

I heard a Latin jazz guy about a year ago at an outdoor festival I was on using that Korg 250 and it sounded great, he was a burning player.

Like I said earlier in the thread I thought the Numa was cool but from past experience, playing something at NAMM never means it will work for me or not. Plus it was so long ago...I actually forgot how it played or sounded.

I'd get too much grief from the guys around town with a white piano-so till they come up with a different color scheme of black or grey unfortunately it's off my radar--which is a drag because it might be the perfect thing for me.

Originally Posted By: voxpops

There were many things I liked about the NP: the sensible weight, the intuitive layout, the Live section, the downloadable pianos, the quality of sound output. In the end, though, it was something indefinable about the nature of the samples that didn't quite speak to me eloquently enough. Having previously owned a piano with a good deal of physical modeling involved, I think I was subconsciously hoping for that more "alive" sound and responsive dynamics that modeling provides; that is something very difficult to recreate with velocity-fixed samples. Maybe that's why I find the FP-7F more playable as a piano, since there is something more than just samples involved.

vp-I hear ya on the Nord Piano. You do a better job of putting it into words then I do. There's something about the sound of that thing through speakers live that just doesn't do it for me. I'd be taking a leap of faith with the new samples and to be honest, I'd have lower expectations going in. Basically I just want something lightweight.

On the other hand $1900 is a lot of dough and if you can find something that works or sounds better to you then the Nord like the SV1 or Numa Piano, for even less $$$, why not go with it.

I'd get too much grief from the guys around town with a white piano-so till they come up with a different color scheme of black or grey unfortunately it's off my radar--which is a drag because it might be the perfect thing for me.

You know, I thought the same until I got my white FP4. At the time it was a really good deal, so I swallowed my pride and went for it. Much to my amazement the guys in the band thought it looked cool! Now I have two white Rolands, plus the Numa organ in white, so I've got used to it.

Quote:

$1900 is a lot of dough and if you can find something that works or sounds better to you then the Nord like the SV1 or Numa Piano, for even less $$$, why not go with it.

Yes, having dropped a few hundred on the NP resale, I really wanted to keep the cost down. If the SV-1 had been a 76 instead of a 73, I might have gone for it, but the 73 was just that little bit short for me, and the 88 was getting into the same weight category as the MP6. I really had GAS for the SV a year or so ago (loved the Rhodes), but in the end I've been swayed towards the NUMA piano by its ultra-simplicity, coupled with its weight and the fact that the AP sounds very good. The big bonus is that it should work well as a controller for VSTs etc. when I give up on trying to find the perfect hardware solution - and that day is now VERY near for me!

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

Thanks for your insight, Tom. I really like the simplicity of the Numa and it could very well take the spot from my Roland RD300NX. The only sound that I hang on to in that board is the 'Mellow Piano' which is very organic and has great decay. Sure would be nice to have a shorter, lightweight board. But no stores carries it around here, so I would have to take a chance and buy online.

"I would appear less hostile, unfriendly and more approachable to the audience." Unfortunately, that hasn't worked in my case. I am going to be painting the endblocks and the 1" strip along the bottom to kind of make it look a little sleaker and match the organ better. I think I'm going to like the looks of it a LOT better with that done. For those who are considering buying one, I hope you like it as much as I like mine. Next to music, I don't think there's anything more subjective than instruments. It's all about finding something that works for you. It's really a shame that it's so hard to "audition" these things ... maybe someday it will be easier. If anyone is in the Detroit area you're welcome to check mine out.

I found that link yesterday (before I pulled the trigger) and couldn't get the tracks to play. Now I've played them this morning and I remember having listened a few months ago - deciding then that the Numa wasn't for me. They do sound pretty low end, I have to admit, and not something worth giving up the NP for. However, I will reserve judgment until the box arrives. If necessary, that Numa will go straight back on eBay and I will finally succumb to a Kawai.

I shall report back in a few days...

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

I think it both the Grand Piano 1 and Bright Grand sound good until you really attack it, then that ugly DP sound rears its head. But, it sounds better to me than a lot of boards out there. Who does the sampling for the Numa Piano, and what pianos do they use?

Side note, but the guy who is 'narrating' us through the sample demos is killing me with that northern accent!

_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1Nord Piano 2

"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Just downloaded the Soundpack 1 update for the NUMA. It's 120Mb so there must be some substantial changes. It would be interesting to know whether any of the DPs leave the factory with the new soundpack. Tom, have you upgraded? I'm doubting whether the Keyboard Mag review unit had the upgrade as I think it's a fairly recent revision.

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"