Voting CLOSED: Nxe4 Wins

Rxa2 - 1 Vote

Nxe4 - 13 Votes

Today's Suggested Moves have been posted, and the voting polls will open Monday, 7 August @7PM EDT and close at Tuesday, 8 August @12AM EDT (Monday Night), in order to give time for enough deliberation before the votes are cast. Don't have a username/Id yet? Get one here! and take some credit for your contributions!

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Taking the knight puts us a piece up when it matters most and besides trading up is always a +. This also leaves the rook in a good place as we're ultimately going to have to reposition our queen for the final attack. I think we will regret not doing this later on. Let's do something that he can't answer. Animegod 19:07, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

I'm not really sure what that third board means, there isn't a piece at a3 or b3 for our rook to take. Also, as Arc pointed out above, there is nothing compelling Ze to take our rook at b3. He could just as easily move Qxd6. PTWhipplebangSR! 20:00, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Voting

Nxe4

Continue with our original plan. If he moves BxN, I think we can move in with Qh6, right? PTWhipplebangSR! 13:28, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Hmmm, I don't see Qh6 as a winning response, we wouldn't be any closer to a mate and we'd be giving him material. I'm pretty blind though. What line were you thinking with Qh6? arc

I'm honestly not sure. I think I posted without thinking enough about it. I'm not sure that moving our rook to take his knight is the best idea either, although we may get a pawn or two out of it as well. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:43, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

This line is nice because if he doesn't respond to the knight he can be mated pretty quickly. Rxa2 looks nice, patz had some arguments against it thought that lose us some tempo and put on defense for awhile, but we still pick up some nice material. For this one, I'm trying to figure out how things might progress after BxN in a positive direction. QxB is okay and then we can follow with Bxd, but I'm expecting there is a better response, since I am pretty sure we can't mate with the B, R, and Q in that position. We can Rx his pawn which should lead something nice for us though. - arc

Yeah, I thought it'd be QxB at that point, with our next move hopefully being our bishop taking d5. JudiciousH

That makes a lot more sense. I still don't know what I was thinking. PTWhipplebangSR! 13:49, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

I was hopeful we could mate Ze in this corner, but I've given up that dream. The most likely line I see is 28. Bf3 Nxe4 29. Bxe4 Qxe4 30. Qe1 Qxe1 31. Rxe1 Rxa2 and then we're picking off pawns (Bxd5, Rxa4)bobby_macrap at me

Yeah, it's a bummer because it feels like it should be possible to mate. Trading down at this point, especially with the center pawns toast, is fine by me though. arc

If we somehow get the bishop to d5 while keeping the queen and rook where they are then we *might* be able to mate by attacking g2 first with the rook and then with the queen...but it's not likely to go down that way.bobby_macrap at me

Even then, if we attack g2 with the rook he can ignore it with his rook. At that point though we can play discover check on him and take his queen, but as you said, I doubt he's going to sit idly by and let us destroy him. arc

Nevermind, it's not quite that simple, white can help himself out with 31. Rf1 I think. arc

I forget who it was, probably Patz, pointed out that he'll have to do Bxe4 or else Ng3+ leads to mate in two or three moves (29. Nc1 Ng3+ 30. hxg3 Qh6+ 31. Qh5 Qxh5++)bobby_macrap at me

The bishop is still on f3 in this case, so it would probably be 31. Bh5 which does stop the mate for a bit. It's still not a very desirable situation for white. arc

Yeah, my point was that the bishop AND queen have to stay on the d1-h5 diagonal or there's a mate. So I do think BxN will be more or less forced in response. Kingpatzer 15:50, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

So I think one of our biggest advantages here is that if we move Nxe4, Ze's next move is forced, which lets us plan a little further ahead. PTWhipplebangSR! 14:28, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Excuse me, arc, you're right. I missed that. It's not mate...but the bishop would be pinned and the Queen would be limited in her movements to those that kept the bishop protected. Nasty for white.bobby_macrap at me

Since no one has suggested another move besides Bxe4 that is useful, should we assume that that will be the move? Maybe there's a problem with it, but if no one speaks their piece I'm sure they'll just yell at us for it a few days from now. In any event, if we assume that's the move, do we think Qxe4 puts us in a good spot? I'll put up a board. arc

This looks like an ok position. I'm trying to figure out what white's response would be; maybe trying to initiate the queen exchange? PTWhipplebangSR! 14:49, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

That's my only guess. He can move Nc1 but that really doesn't help Bxd5 very much. He can't move his rook or he'll be mated, and his farr ight pawn would just be a silly move. arc

The only place I can see him exchanging on is 29. e1, then 29. e1 Qxe1 30. Rxe1 Rxa2 and we are looking pretty damn fine. arc

Yeah. It looks like that's the only way he can guarantee a queen exchange. Anything else and he winds up down quite a bit. PTWhipplebangSR! 15:02, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

I think at this point I don't have much interest in having our queens on the board. A Qxe1 exchange will leave us with a ton of protected and movable pawns, and a piece up. No need to chance it when the end game is insured that way. arc

I see what you mean. I think our move numbers from the last couple comments are one behind. I'm correcting mine. PTWhipplebangSR!

As far as I can see, white only has a few moves that he can really consider. Re1, Nc1, h3, Rf1 and Bxe4 are the moves I'd consider if I were white. I'd look at Bh5 but would quickly realize that trading down doesn't help me much. Nc1 doesn't seem quick enough, so I think the real choice is between Re1, h3 and BxN. I'd be tempted to play BxN on material grounds, but I think that's the worst move here for white. Re1 seems to try and make something happen, but again, I think it's too slow. I think h3 is the best move. He needs to give his king a little space to avoid cheap mates. So I think we'll se the next few moves as: 28. .. Nxe4 29. h3 Rxa2 30. Qb1 Nf2+ 31. Kh2 Qxb1 32. Rxb1 Now the queens are off the board and our simple pawn majority will win the day. Kingpatzer 16:01, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Please count this as my vote when the polls open. Good night, all. Otis 15:43, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

at worst it wins us another pawn and piece for a piece (if he plays BxN). It avoids any issues with allowing his queen activity along the B-file (Qb1 in response to Rxa2), and it frees us up to snatch up the d5 pawn and bring the bishop into the attack in the next few moves. i really want RxB to work here, but it doesn't, so this'll have to do :) Kingpatzer 15:47, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Bc8

Suggested Position

Suggested Move: Bc8

I've kind of been toying with Bc8, but don't know how to do the wiki thing, and frankly, am still smarting from the "those who suggest moves only to be corrected by those with computers" comment from yesterday. But I'd like to talk that move over if anyone is willing. Otis 15:11, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Sorry, 28. ... Bc8. I don't think we have to take e4 just yet. Moving the bishop along the diagonal may help an attack, it would just depend on white's move after Bc8. That's what I want to discuss. What would white do after 28. ... Bc8? Otis 15:16, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

29. Rf8 would get our rook out of its current spot. I suspect he'd do the safe Nc1 to save his knight and try and bring it back into play.

I put your move up. Don't worry about suggesting moves, I don't even know what I'm talking about. I just try and prove my point until I find out I'm completely wrong. Either way it advances the discussion. arc

The people who usually prove me wrong aren't here right now, I should note. :) I'm not a big fan of this move though, it doesn't help with a mate and it removes pressure on his center pawns. arc

Yeah you know the more I look at it the more it just seems like a wasted move. Never mind. Otis 15:30, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

I don't think it's that bad of an idea. Gives the bishop a nice diagonal to move into the attack on and join the fun. I think Nxe4 is stronger, but this certainly isn't a bad idea. The one thing I'd worry about is that it gives him enough time to activate his knight. He has time to play Nc1 now and now Nxe4 isn't quite as powerfull. I don't think it lets white into the game, but it seems to let the pressure off a little. Kingpatzer 15:54, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

I followed the line from white's position, and what I'd do if I was white would be to play: 28. ... Bc8 29. Re1 Nxe4 30. Bxe4 Qf6 31. Qe1 and we lose our rook. Probably not good. Otis 16:04, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

31. .. Qc2 is ok for us in that line, Otis. Kingpatzer 16:05, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

How do you see this line going, if we played Bc8, Patz? Never mind, I can't see this as being better than Nxe4 - I can't find the line that lets us save our rook with Bc8. Thanks for considering it, though. Otis 16:08, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Nxd5

Proposed move

Nxd5

Potential line?

29. Pxd5 e4 30. Bxe4 Qxe4

I've been playing with Nxd5 in my head. If ze responds with 29. exd5 e4 and his bishop is pretty much out of running room. 30. Be2 Bxd5...I know it's a trade down, but it seems to do a heck of a lot of development, to me. That's about as far as I can run the line, though - is there anything here? --AtteSmythe 15:43, 7 August 2006 (PDT)

Is this the line you were thinking? If so, I kind of like it, but I'm not positive that's what Ze would do with 30. --Icrywolf