Originally Posted by harley_52Personally, I think the chances of a reborn BDI becoming successful and generating sufficient profit to make us all whole is about as likely as hell freezing over. More likely, I think, the lawyers and managers will burn through the remaining value in the company and THEN decide it's hopeless, leaving nothing to be returned to the creditors (aka US).

Would YOU buy gold from BDI? Aren't most people (potential customers) aware of what happened and, therefore, not likely to put their faith in BDI? Who's going to run it?

Frankly, for what we're going to get either way, I'm about to the point of throwing up my hands and just writing it off as another lesson in life. I should have been more careful. Rapidly approaching the age of 70, I doubt it makes much difference anyway.

But still.....I vote for chapter 7 NOW.

Hey harley, how much money will you be throwing your hands up about?
I honestly don't know and is probably none of my bussiness, but some here have lost 10s of thousands and I know I have a hard time just writing it off and going straight to Ch 7 at this point.

I don't know what to do but I'd like to hear options fron the legal teams (if they exist) of the top 10 creditors before making any decisions.

At $70K (as reported by BD to Equity International on 2015-06-30) it is hard to let that go without a fight. but right now I don't think I have enough information in order to know the best way to jump. Sue Equity (as an IRA matter)? see if there is a sucker willing to license the Nucleo software? see if Lloyd's insurance on the IRA is a viable action?

There is too much fog of uncertainty at this time in this situation to know what is the most prudent course. I figure I can wait a bit (15-30 days) to see if the fog clears any or (best case) enought to offer a clear option that is best or at a minimum is the least sub-optimal option available.

The Jean Pinard has 240 oz of some kind of gold at stake. His (I am guessing the name is French) threshold for good money after bad is higher than mine. Which every way Jean jumps is likely the way I will jump.__________________In Liberty,John Washburn

It is my understanding that the insurance is only for a loss by the common carrier (which was Fed-Ex, then they switched to UPS). BD would acknowledge receipt of package, but then there was the whole "allocated / fungible / use" confusion in 6.7 of the contract once BD received the metal.

It's worth remembering Lloyds doesn't insure much directly - they underwrite insurers. My read was that the policy covered PM's being shipped and little else - and you can buy shipping insurance underwritten by lloyds online without them even being aware of the contract.

Lloyds is a powerful name to use, but in this case its meaning is similar to advertising "Cash you sent us was insured by the FDIC until we received it" or a mugger telling you "don't worry, I've got great auto insurance".

Originally Posted by nemoMaybe there is just too much temptation with all that Gold lying around, like human beings cannot help themselves around mass quantities of it, like they just "pop a screw", go insane with "gold fever" because it is their genetic make-up to do so?

I think the term is not gold fever, but "gold rush" -- see the Noble Mining website. It is run by a self-proclaimed TRUSTED EXPERT who has "a proven track record of growing small startups into profitable, multi-million dollar entities". Gold Rush is a TV show he participates in.

Oh, and he used to be the Bullion Direct CEO. And knew Corbin Tuma in college (whose name came up at the creditors' meeting under suspicion of having stolen metal).

Originally Posted by nemoBD would acknowledge receipt of package, but then there was the whole "allocated / fungible / use" confusion in 6.7 of the contract once BD received the metal.

Speaking of "allocated" -- remember how for at least 7-8 years Bullion Direct stated "product is exclusively allocated to your account portfolio: you are purchasing individual products and not "pool" metal."?

***"Hey harley, how much money will you be throwing your hands up about?I honestly don't know and is probably none of my bussiness, but some here have lost 10s of thousands and I know I have a hard time just writing it off and going straight to Ch 7 at this point."***

It really is none of your business, but it's a little over $9300. I'm fully aware many have lost much more than I, so if I sounded like I was advising anybody else what to do, I didn't mean to. I meant to speak for myself ONLY.

The point I tried to make was that if, indeed, we're going to get 2 to 3 percent when it's all said and done, I can't really get excited about it. Not that I'll turn it down, but I'm just not planning to lose any <more> sleep about it.

I'm trying to understand why folks seem to think we'll recover more of our money with a chapter 11 than a chapter 7. Who's going to run this new and improved BD? How much will he/she/they be paid? What are the REALISTIC chances of success? What are the REALISTIC chances they might not only survive, but be so wildly profitable so as to allow them to repay us all that's been stolen from us?

To me, the only thing a chapter 11 will insure is that whatever money remains as of now will be spent by the lawyers and experts as they spend time moving full steam ahead to chapter 7 a few months, or even a few years, from now.

I'm prepared to swallow hard, take my 2 or 3 percent, and sip a cold one as I watch those that cheated us (hopefully) spend plenty of time in the slammer.

Also, JG has mentioned several times that we can't claim a capital loss until we know how much we will recover, but if there is no disbursement of remaining assets, then there is no closure to the loss. Will customers be able to claim their metal/money losses when the debt is converted to "shares" (and a cost basis is calculated based on the number of shares and the starting worth of the company?) or will the loss not be declarable until we are able to sell off our shares?

(any CPAs out there? I don't want to force JG to have shoulder answering all these tax questions, although he is probably as good at the tax questions as with the legal ones.)

Originally Posted by harley_52I'm trying to understand why folks seem to think we'll recover more of our money with a chapter 11 than a chapter 7. Who's going to run this new and improved BD? How much will he/she/they be paid? What are the REALISTIC chances of success? What are the REALISTIC chances they might not only survive, but be so wildly profitable so as to allow them to repay us all that's been stolen from us?...But that's just me.....

FWIW, it is not just you. I think a Chapter 11 *might* have a slight advantage over Chapter 7 for selling the patent (to "keep the website running"). As far as taking the assets and essentially starting a brand new bullion dealer from the ashes of a completely ruined one, in a now (since 2010-2012ish) very competitive market, doesn't make much sense to me. Especially since the "stuff" that was in place before no longer is (e.g. the office with the vault, employees, etc.).

I *do* think it is wise to investigate possible options, to make sure we are not overlooking a good solution.

***"I *do* think it is wise to investigate possible options, to make sure we are not overlooking a good solution."***

Me too. I don't want to overlook anything, particularly well hidden assets. I just don't want to spend months wringing my hands and HOPING something will change as the cash register continues to ring up huge salaries (and I presume, expenses) for the lawyers and experts who really have much to gain by keeping the dying corpse barely breathing for as long as there's money to spend.

7. The claim against Corbin Tuma is because "there is a suspicion that he stole from the vault".

I sent Bullion Direct a bullion deposit to my account via USPS registered mail in 2012. There were about 10 coins. Somehow they missed checking in a 1/10 oz. Platinum Eagle in a coin holder in bubble wrap. It could have been an honest mistake, or not. I contacted Live Chat and they said that they would check the surveillance system. They found the coin. They credited my account without any problem. So, the person on Live Chat claimed they had a surveillance system of some kind. I would imagine someone who worked there could figure out how to bypass it. I did not find a surveillance system listed in the contents of vault document #17 http://about.ag/pics/bk/bd/17.pdf

I bought and sold quite a large amount of bullion with bd since 2003. There were errors across the years, which was rectified with whatever research they did. Once, they said there was no error in their calculation. After going over my books, they were right, the error was mine.

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