Snowden still has 1.7 million docs. NSA considering amnesty.

posted at 5:01 pm on December 14, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Is the long, drawn out saga of Edward Snowden heading toward a very unexpected conclusion? There are new reports coming out this weekend claiming that the “tens of thousands” of classified documents that Snowden made off with may actually number more than 1.5 million, and all of them are currently sitting somewhere in Russia. This apparently has some – though not all – of the brass at the NSA thinking that just maybe we need to offer amnesty to the thief just to get him (and more importantly, the intelligence data) back on US soil.

CBS News learned Thursday that the information National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden has revealed so far is just a fraction of what he has. In fact, he has so much, some think it is worth giving him amnesty to get it back.

Rick Ledgett is the man who was put in charge of the Snowden leak task force by Gen. Keith Alexander, who heads the NSA. The task force’s job is to prevent another leak like this one from happening again. They’re also trying to figure out how much damage the Snowden leaks have done, and how much damage they could still do.

Snowden, who is believed to still have access to 1.5 million classified documents he has not leaked, has been granted temporary asylum in Moscow, which leaves the U.S. with few options.

Ledgett isn’t coming right out and saying that amnesty is the right move, but he’s willing to say that, “it’s worth having a conversation about.” Given the inflammatory nature of the entire Snowden story and the prospects of letting him walk scott free after what he’s confessed to doing, that’s about as close to an endorsement as you’re likely to see. It’s apparently a balance between the damage already done, the potential damage yet to come, and the backlash against letting him get away with it.

All of this points to an nightmare situation for the U.S., and potentially for civilians in other countries.

The man in charge of the Snowden leak task force told CBS that he would be in favor of granting Snowden amnesty if rest of the data could be secured, and a former NSA director suggested the agency leak it all.

Citizens in Russia and China — who already live under oppressive surveillance — may also become victims of the leak if parts of the blueprints of the world’s largest spy apparatus were used against them.

The potential damage goes well beyond spying on citizens (i.e., Snowden’s stated focus): Last month The Washington Post reported that U.S. officials believe Snowden took 30,000 U.S. documents that do “not deal with NSA surveillance but primarily with standard intelligence about other countries’ military capabilities, including weapons systems.”

I don’t believe Kelley is overstating the potential danger and damages, but I do have to wonder if the proposed solution of bringing Snowden back home with the promise of freedom really does anything to ameliorate the threat. It seems as if this sort of deal with the Devil – were we to even consider it – would have needed to have been made while Snowden was still on the plane to Hong Kong. At this point, there are two potential avenues where all or most of the damaging intelligence winds up where we don’t want it.

Do we still really have any clue how much more of the stolen data is sitting with Glenn Greenwald and his buddies? As long as that represents increased traffic for his paper, the material will still be coming out. And possibly far worse, what are the odds at this point that the Russians don’t already have the files? If that’s the case, the damage is done and offering a pass to Snowden doesn’t seem like it really gets us anything in exchange.

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This apparently has some – though not all – of the brass at the NSA thinking that just maybe we need to offer amnesty to the thief just to get him (and more importantly, the intelligence data) back on US soil.

“the prospects of letting him walk scott free after what he’s confessed to doing,….”

Thank God he did what he “confessed to doing.” Otherwise we wouldn’t know how badly our own government has violated the CONSTITUTION of the United States. What they’ve done is outrageous; what Snowden did is tell us what they’ve done. Don’t kill the messenger.

Since it’s obvious that the administration has no real idea of exactly how many documents are in Snowden’s possession, or exactly which documents are in Snowden’s possession, Snowden would be prudent to put aside a few of the most damning and accept the amnesty for the rest of them.

However, if Snowden were prudent, he should remain somewhere he’s relatively safe, even after accepting this ‘amnesty’…since I don’t think his safety could be assured in the United States or many other parts of the world. Frankly, I fear he’d fall victim to ‘The Chicago Way’, sooner or later.

Rick Ledgett is the man who was put in charge of the Snowden leak task force by Gen. Keith Alexander, who heads the NSA. The task force’s job is to prevent another leak like this one from happening again. They’re also trying to figure out how much damage the Snowden leaks have done, and how much damage they could still do

Oh, and just to be clear, we don’t know what Snowden knows. We still have no idea what specific information came to his attention that triggered his determination to access and keep a couple of million secret documents and cast his own future and personal comfort to the winds of fate.

Is he a traitor determined to undermine this nation on a global basis? I don’t know. Is he a reluctant hero, a man who realized that this nation was committed to an intelligence program that, in his estimation at least, had gone rogue and felt he had to expose the intelligence community? I don’t know… because I don’t know what Snowden knows… or what’s in those documents.

It is also possible that Putin has no idea of exactly what Snowden knows, or of all of the documents that are in Snowden’s possession, just as our own intelligence community has no way of knowing. If Snowden were prudent, he would have several critical documents held in reserve… from everyone…as an insurance policy on his own life. Does he? I don’t know.

The NSA ought to concern themselves with the mole on the inside. No way an outside contractor pulled this off without help.

John the Libertarian on December 14, 2013 at 5:07 PM

Normally I’d agree with you but your statement assumes a certain level of competence in how their security systems were set up though. If they were set up foolishly — cough healthcare.gov cough — then it’s ENTIRELY possible that a contractor with access to their control systems could download virtually anything.

Think about Snowden and Bradley Manning. In both cases they exploited systems that didn’t have the basic level of sniff-test intelligence to know that no legitimate user / terminal / location / etc could possibly need to download more than say 20 documents in a given day. So now how confident are you that they were protected from a contractor doing what Snowden did?

However, if Snowden were prudent, he should remain somewhere he’s relatively safe, even after accepting this ‘amnesty’…since I don’t think his safety could be assured in the United States or many other parts of the world. Frankly, I fear he’d fall victim to ‘The Chicago Way’, sooner or later.

thatsafactjack on December 14, 2013 at 5:17 PM

No doubt about that. Promises from this Third World regime are worthless at best, and often counter-indicative of true intent.

However criminally guilty he may be, I’m glad he let us know how out of control our government actually has become.

And damn those in Congress, GOP and Dems, who were too cowardly/lazy/incompetent to tell us first.

The NSA needs a major house cleaning. The Snowden thing never would have happened if the NSA concerned themselves more with security instead of the phone calls of people like Merkel.

This is what happens when you expand too fast, have too much money, and too little oversight. Until we have real oversight of the NSA by competent people and clean out all the losers who allowed this to happen, federal employees and contractors, this will continue to happen.

Personally I think the NSA should be put under the control of the CIA OR the military (like Cyber Command) and their mission refocused on what they are supposed to do. That is gain useful intelligence from foreign nations that are dangerous to the U.S., not play domestic nanny.

Trusting the NSA promises would be like trusting the GeStaPo or KGB or Stasi promises…

….or the promise Janet Barbecue Reno gave Elian Gonzales aunt and uncle before kicking in the door at 3 in the morning, pepper spraying the family at H&K MP5 gunpoint and returning little Elian to his, er, rightful owner Fidel Castro.

The NSA ought to concern themselves with the mole on the inside. No way an outside contractor pulled this off without help.

John the Libertarian on December 14, 2013 at 5:07 PM

Agreed.

davidk on December 14, 2013 at 5:19 PM

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I’ve documented the FISA court document as the “proof of mole” enough times over the last 6 months, I won’t respond to poster equating the NSA systems to Healthcare.gov.

If you need to delude yourself badly enough to believe this is a one person job?

You should be working in the Kneepad Media helping to sell that shite.

But after the “We must capitulate to Iran” settlement sought so urgently by Kerry on behalf of Obama …

… one other fact came shining through – Russia can PROVE who the mole in the Obama administration is for the FISA-level Snowden data.
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Have you thought it through yet?
Here is a helpful hint – WHEN did the SCOAMF start openly ceding vital American interests to Putin and/or his client states?
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Do you see it now?

The Obama administration, indeed – Obama himself, has been compromised by the Putin.

Obama will SURRENDER on ANYTHING before risking the PROOF of the mole’s identity being made public.

Edward Snowden deserves high praise for his heroic actions in exposing the illegal activities of our government against its citizens. If it were not for him, Congress would not even be talking about reining in unconstitutional US government snooping against innocent American citizens. Imagine what other unconstitutional spying schemes our government would have concocted by now. If Obama could illegally sic the IRS on innocent conservatives, imagine what he could order the NSA and CIA to do to undermine Obama’s political enemies.

I was under the delusion that one of the criteria for Snowden’s Russian asylum was that he not actively distribute this stuff. With that much material, it’s hard to believe he’s the only perpetrator. There has to be someone else

I’m going to take crap but IMHO Snowden is a hero. If you believe in a limited goverment then you do too. Ben Franklin was right.

jukin3 on December 14, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Not too sure if I’d call him a “hero”…was Daniel Ellsberg a hero? Deep Throat? The many others who have leaked info throughout the years that outs things kept from the American people for no other cause than to protect criminal interests? Some would say yes, and others no I suppose.

Given the criminal, un-Constitutional nature of what the government’s been up to, I’d be among the last to want to see him prosecuted.

Citizens in Russia and China — who already live under oppressive surveillance — may also become victims of the leak if parts of the blueprints of the world’s largest spy apparatus were used against them.

As if we don’t live under an oppressive regime.

“Look, over there guys! Russia has video camera’s all over the place! They kill journalists! They hate teh gays (oh, wait, you might like that one).”

There is no impartial enforcement of the laws. Is Eric “Fast and Furious” Holder in jail? No. Is he in any danger for that or any of his other crimes? No. Or for defying Congress? No. Are any of the Obama administration’s other criminals, liars-under-oath and stone-wallers going to jail? No. Are black guys who intimidate voters at the polling booths in legal danger even after they got convicted? No, the racialized Justice Department withdrew charges after their conviction, because in Erik “My People” Holder’s Justice Department, “civil rights” and voting suppression laws are weapons against white people only.

Edward Snowden would be an idiot to let himself be the one guy singled out for vindictive punishment under the pretext of law, while other criminals, including all the spying-scandal criminals he blew the whistle on, continue to enjoy immunity and be above the law.

Let’s not hear too much about the sacredness of the law. Everyone who doesn’t sign up for Obamacare is a criminal; that’s why there’s a fine. For all you know, you commit three felonies a day, that’s why only idiots talk to the police.

Everyone can figure out why the state is going after whistleblowers and only whistleblowers: it’s to silence future whistelblowers, so the government can get away with more evil, criminal stuff.

The aim of the Great Snowden Hunt is to increase criminality in the long run, by creating a cloak of fear to hide criminal tyrannical acts.

Ironic that the Russians know how to effectively deal with their own traitors like Snowden. If the situation were reversed and their traitor was in the US, he would have had a polonium cocktail months ago.

The Russians already know everything Snowden stole. They wouldn’t let him stay there otherwise. The NSA is considering amnesty because they’re afraid of the American people finding out what they are doing.

The biggest fallacy in the original Star Wars movie was that stolen data could exist only in one place, one droid, at a time. This is the fallacy present in giving Snowdon any amnesty. The Russians and the Guardian probably have the data already and the passwords to decrypt it.

Sure, give him amnesty. That gives us a ring side seat to his descent into madness, decay, and early death. But that data is out there, forever a monument to a NSA that has both thumbs stuck up its lowest down when standing up orifice.

Give him amnesty and let him have one of those “unfortunate accidents ” about a year later

kurtd on December 15, 2013 at 12:29 AM

After Muammar Gaddafi, everybody on the planet with an IQ above room temperature knows that’s how America plays the game. America has ceased to be a country that you can deal with, with any expectation that deals will be kept, or even that you won’t finish up being sodomized by a knife while the American Secretary of State gloats and fist-pumps over your degraded corpse.

Since it’s obvious that the administration has no real idea of exactly how many documents are in Snowden’s possession, or exactly which documents are in Snowden’s possession, Snowden would be prudent to put aside a few of the most damning and accept the amnesty for the rest of them.

He has released multiple copies of the encrypted bundle. He won’t be able to retrieve those … nor can the government be guaranteed that he won’t release the password after the fact … unless he is permanently silenced.