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Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

I have tried to replace all the lost images in this thread using a new (to me) freebee service 'POSTIMAGE'. It looks OK on my PC but may not be what others see on theirs.
I would be obliged if someone could verify that the images HAVE actually reappeared using the new service. You will recognise them as thumb nails/prints.
If they haven't then I think I will just have to give it all up as a bad job. I just don't want to start monthly payments for a service that I make only very occasional use of.

I wish all the other thread posters the best of luck...especially JIM Ledger who has a marathon task to repair his precious thread 'Lofting the Brewer Catboat'.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Nick, your photograph looks very good and fills the post page nicely. What system/service are you using then?
If you are using POSTIMAGE, which of the alternatives do you use?
I have been clicking on the 'thumb nail for forums'
Is there a better one to use?

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Originally Posted by Don Scott

Nick, your photograph looks very good and fills the post page nicely. What system/service are you using then?
If you are using POSTIMAGE, which of the alternatives do you use?
I have been clicking on the 'thumb nail for forums'
Is there a better one to use?

Postimage.org, It may be how you use the system. Your last test worked fine.

It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.
The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Hello Tom. I do apologise for not responding to your message although I had every intension of doing so. I have been quite busy in the last two weeks since you sent the PM, not the least of which was this photobucket bombshell. My wife and I have just come home from a week in Northumberland and I have let a few things slide. Anyway , I think I am back on course with the 'Lorelei' thread and sorted the image problem. Things wouldn't work without them so we will just have to wait and se if other photo hosting companies follow in the path of PB. I don't think they are quite aware of the damage they have caused...not just to this forum but many others. Thanks for your continued help and I hope my thread on the building of a Gil Smith catboat is of use to the LIMM even if just a talking point. Kind regards, Don

PS : I was unable to send this reply to your PM so have placed it here...I am obviously doing something wrong!
The one PM from you concerned 'Stoke on Trent'. Was that the one you were referring to?

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Not much to show for a few more hours of work but here we have a coming together at the blunt end.
The whole keel/trunk section (bar the stem) is dry fitted until time comes when I am forced to glue it up.
The stem capping strip is oak and also only temporarily screwed down.
Even though the strip laying is laborious it is so satisfying to see the beautiful shape emerge as the frames slowly disappear beneath them.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

I only have a little more to show since last post although the photographs belie the time spent on the build.
As can be seen, we are getting very near to closing up the hull but I couldn't go any further until I made permanent fixtures of the c/b trunk and skeg. That's a bit of a messy job and I was putting it off because I hadn't really sorted out exactly how I was going to do it. Anyway, it is starting to come together and I have a few photos for those who are interested. However, as I said from the start, my methods might raise a few eyebrows but you can bury a lot of questionable work if you have a few kilos of epoxy lying around! I am still pretty confidant that the final result will look like a Gil Smith catboat...on the outside at least.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Nick : I have looked for any mention of the word 'bedlogs' but could find none. I have assumed that the more common term for these is 'blocking' (found in the Gougeon Brothers book), but may be wrong. My interpretation is as you see it here. They are 'blocks' or 'logs' set between each of the ribs that will be used to pin the outer keelson as it passes along each side of the c/b trunk and skeg. I call it a keelson but it is shaped like a gusset that fairs the bottom of the hull to the c/b/skeg structure. So, I will end up with a sandwich comprising the blocks, strips and keelson...all swimming in a veritable porridge of good old faithful epoxy.

I feel sure that I am about to be bombarded with some alternative methods of preventing the good ship from falling apart but I'm afraid that the die is already cast and I feel pretty sure that the end result will be safe and strong...and out of sight!

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

This is the starboard inner face of the c/b trunk...again not conventional. The idea is to save weight while keeping some properties of a double thickness of 9mm plywood. The inner strakes allow the c/b to be supported no matter what the position of the board and may better prevent sand/grit jamming ( a problem suffered by the Melonseed I built a few years ago). However, it's only an idea. The other photos show a sequence of c/b positions from fully up to fully down. The c/b shape is final but I haven't decided on how thick to make it...18mm or 27mm ?

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Still haven't started on the transom but it can wait. Pity about my fancy bit of herringbone here because it will disappear under the continuation of the outer keelson. Yes, it has a name of its own but I just cannot remember it...where are you Nick? remind me.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Last picture for the moment. This is the skeg all glued together and almost ready to fix in place. The forward upright (left) forms the rear post of the c/b trunk and the shaft to the right forms part of the mounting for the rudder. Next time I hope to have all the centre/keel work fixed in place and then it will be down to some rubbing down of the hull ready for sheathing in fibreglass.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Originally Posted by Don Scott

Still haven't started on the transom but it can wait. Pity about my fancy bit of herringbone here because it will disappear under the continuation of the outer keelson. Yes, it has a name of its own but I just cannot remember it...where are you Nick? remind me.

False keel. The keelson is on the inside,

It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.
The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Again, not a great deal to show for a few more hours but, I have reached a landmark...or should that be a water shed?

The hull is at last closed up and the stem sorted. Unfortunately I didn't allow enough material at the top of the stem so I will have to fix that when the boat is turned right way up. Because of the lack of space in my boat shed I have to open the doors to work on the front end but I can't get round the back at all, so I will have to fix some wheels to the strong back so as to draw the whole assembly out of the shed a meter or so to enable me to finish the transom. Then I can rub down the whole shell in preparation for woven fibreglass covering. Just a few questions if you please...

Q1. Should I give the whole area a coat of epoxy before laying the fibreglass or lay it straight onto the bare wood strip?
Q2. The skeg is still open at the bottom as may be seen in the photo. Before closing it should I fill it with something or just close it up and trap the air. I just wondered if trapping the air might cause buoyancy problems but it would only involve trapping about half a cubic foot of air. What do you think?
Q3 TOM, I wonder if you could post a close up photograph of one of the 'run off' holes in the toe rail and let me know how many holes there are in each side. I have guessed at about 15 but none of the photos so far have allowed for an accurate count.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Originally Posted by Don Scott

Q2. The skeg is still open at the bottom as may be seen in the photo. Before closing it should I fill it with something or just close it up and trap the air. I just wondered if trapping the air might cause buoyancy problems but it would only involve trapping about half a cubic foot of air. What do you think?

Nice shape.
The buoyancy of trapped air is not an issue, but condensation, damp, and rot might be. I would pack it with wood or something encapsulated in thickened epoxy.

It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.
The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Many thanks Nick and Tom for that good advice. If I had paid more attention to my 'Gougeon Brothers' I would not have needed to ask Q1 about laying up fibreglass on a wet or dry surface. There is a full description of the DRY METHOD FOR CLEAR FINISHING on pages 123/124. I wonder if all of Gil Smith's catboats were finished in white or was he ever tempted to expose beautiful timbers beneath whatever clear finishes that were available in his day. I just have to try the clear finish first to see the result of my labours with laying all that lovely western red cedar strip...I can always apply a coat of white at some future date. That is, of course, if my experiment in building a 2/3 replica doesn't end up with an unstable catboat. We shall see about that.

By the way, Tom, there is no hurry for the photograph as I have a lot to do before I get to that stage. The next step in the build is to cut and shape the keel which was going to be made from laminations of 9mm ply. I like Nick's idea of using some of my uncut planks of western red cedar stock for that purpose. Believe it or not I have enough of it left to build another 'Lorelei' which only goes to show that I would never have secured a job concerned with estimation of material requirements in Gil Smith's boatyard. Anyway, I might be tempted to have a crack at a strip built Kayak with the leftovers.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

I now have a 'mobile' catboat...or is that an amphibious craft? Whatever it is, it has allowed me to draw the whole assembly forward and partially out of the boat shed so as to gain access to the stern and work on the transom. I have to do that before I can cover the hull with fibreglass but it is not straightforward. At the extreme rear end the tumblehome is not defined by a gunwale and flows into the deck above, just behind the toe rails which curve sharply inboard to meet in the centre. This part of the Gil Smith design is what draws the eye in combination with the sharp rake of the transom...well it does that for me anyway!

So here is the assembly drawn out of the shed (on a very dull and rain threatening day). You can see the large prepared WRC planks for the keel ready for shaping and fixture/fairing to the hull/CB/skeg. The unfinished 1/4 scale model sits on the c/b slot to show scale comparison.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

So am I Jim!

I can hardly wait to see how I get round the problem !!!
Joking apart, I do have a pattern for the transom that I worked out on paper before the build started. But there are still some pretty acute bevels to workout due to the extreme rake of it... Might be tricky.

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

I've been thinking about how the transom might be scribed in. The problem as I see it, is that the oversized transom needs to be offered up to the inside of the planking, but, due to the tumblehome it wont go.

Here's something to you might consider. Remove the two blocks that would hold the transom in its finished position. Replace them with some blocks on the outside, something that would position the transom on the outside face. That way the transom could be offered up from the inside, holding the oversized blank inside the boat and moving it aft. This would allow marking, taking bevels, chalking-in, fitting in general. A strap or string wrapped around the after end of the boat would prevent the spreading of the sides as the transom is being fitted.