I can understand the hygiene thing, i have germphobic OCD combined with OCD about using the toilet, until march of this year i'd never masturbated (and it is restricted to certain "ok" feeling days with the ocd, sometimes im in the mood but its not a good day so cant., and it can only be in the shower right after a wee) and i fully believed until i was 22 that i was asexual, as until my current partner i always just feared sex, i never actually desired it. But i know it will unfortunately be very ritualised, i'd have to wee and shower right before (used to take me 8 hours and exhaust me completely to do thatbecause every step is ritualised, now it takes 1-2 hours, still quite tiring) , as would he, then its a ton of towels on the bed, no covers over or anyrthing, those right in the wash after and both shower. I might even have to go throuh the tricky for me task of weeing again before my bladder is full (i go typically once to twice a day, about every 12-24 hours depending) depending how long it takes or showering would drive me to feeling desperate to pee and start all over) Every time will be incredibly stressful, have to be planned, and thats not very sexy, it will be more chore like and unless i suddenly shake thoughts and feelings i've had my entire life it will never be spontaneous. I have often worried what if i don't like it or it's too stressful to be worth it, i honestly fear ending up in a sexless or almost sexless relationship if i just can't handle it, worried he'll be unsatisfied and unhappy and either leave or look elsewhere. He's known all this since the day we met, because after a few hours of chatting i liked him, and i didn't want to start anything with it a secret. He told me once it's ok if we never have sex and reminded me he was born with hands, which if it comes to that i hope he can be satisfied with, but i intend to try my hardest to make him satisfied, even if its hell for me, but totally understand without his safe feeling clean way of masturbating sex could overwhelm him.

given you say he was crying begging you not to leave when you found out the past stuff, the hygiene issues, his errectile issues and bad experiences in his previous relationships it sounds like he has some deeply emotional issues with sex, which in turn affect him physically, poor guy :(

Thank you everyone for your advice. I decided to take the softly softly approach and suggested a date night. As soon as the words were out of my mouth he closed up, all his body language said he wasn't happy about it. So I told him sex was off the table and it was like he became a different person. I told him I noticed him visibly relax and he laughed. We then had a very open conversation, no arguments or raised voices. He told me how he still has performance anxiety and because sex has got much less the anxiety has got worse.

He also mentioned that sex doesn't get him off because he doesn't get enough sensation from it. Plus he admitted that he can't stand sex unless we are both freshly showered because of him being a bit of a germ freak. We have spoken about different ways in which we can both change things for the better and decided that a Date Night once a month but with sex still being off the table so he doesn't feel pressured, but if it does happen then we can put in to practice the things we have spoken about.

Just speaking openly like this has made us feel closer and I haven't seen him this relaxed in ages. I feel very happy right now and much more secure in our future together.

I do not remember the name of the condition/situation but there is a term for being overly sensitized to to much masterbation. Basically because a guy can focus an incredible amount of tension with his hand, on just the right spots, it makes for a fast and powerful orgasm. In this situation the man because so used to the high degree of sensation that anything less is not enjoyable. If you couple this with his performance anxiety, then you have a receipe for just this situation. The solution would be quite a challenge, it is recommened that the man stop masterbating for an extended period of time. While I don't expect this to be practical in the short term, it may be something you consider bring up in a phase 2 or 3 of this rebuilding approach.

Again, as others have said - this stems from his anxieties and past, not you as a person.

As an aside: I would ask that he not be involving another live person (i.e. chatting with other womes) but that is me - you have to be honest about what you are okay with and the reasons.

Hi CB, yes we resolved the chatting to women cheating back at Christmas, he knows he over-stepped the mark. And he understands he broke my trust and that's not going to resolve itself overnight.

I think if we stick to the Date Night we'll be able to bring back the intimacy to our relationship. The suggestion you made about him stopping self-pleasuring for a period of time after a few date nights might actually help. I will suggest it to him at a later date if all goes well.

He sounds like a massive baby to me... someone who can take advantage of your feelings, but be forgiven and then know that they can do it again and you'll forgive again. If he's a germ freak, especially if you don't live up to his "germ freak" standards then what's the point?

I've only been in one relationship (which I'm still in) but I don't think this by any means is normal or good. I don't think he'll change... I think you should find someone better.

How DARE you call people with phobias and anxiety over germs freaks, you are incredibly offensive !

Having anxiety and fears about germs is no less significant or valid than any fear or phobia you or anyone else has. It is a life crippling thing because we cannot see what we fear and they are everywhere, we encounter it every day, everywhere we go, with every person we meet. It only takes one person who doesn't wash their hands after the toilet to start an unstoppable chain of contamination, do you know what it's like having to clean everything anyone else has touched in a never ending attempt to keep your home and possessions clean enough to touch them or even be able to function without crippling anxiety? As for calling him a baby, did you read her further posts than just the first one? clearly this man has also suffered verbal abuse over his sexual performance in the past, and has physical sensation issues also with sex, he needs SUPPORT, not ridicule and name calling.

I do not remember the name of the condition/situation but there is a term for being overly sensitized to to much masterbation. Basically because a guy can focus an incredible amount of tension with his hand, on just the right spots, it makes for a fast and powerful orgasm. In this situation the man because so used to the high degree of sensation that anything less is not enjoyable. If you couple this with his performance anxiety, then you have a receipe for just this situation. The solution would be quite a challenge, it is recommened that the man stop masterbating for an extended period of time. While I don't expect this to be practical in the short term, it may be something you consider bring up in a phase 2 or 3 of this rebuilding approach.

Again, as others have said - this stems from his anxieties and past, not you as a person.

As an aside: I would ask that he not be involving another live person (i.e. chatting with other womes) but that is me - you have to be honest about what you are okay with and the reasons.

How DARE you call people with phobias and anxiety over germs freaks, you are incredibly offensive !

Having anxiety and fears about germs is no less significant or valid than any fear or phobia you or anyone else has. It is a life crippling thing because we cannot see what we fear and they are everywhere, we encounter it every day, everywhere we go, with every person we meet. It only takes one person who doesn't wash their hands after the toilet to start an unstoppable chain of contamination, do you know what it's like having to clean everything anyone else has touched in a never ending attempt to keep your home and possessions clean enough to touch them or even be able to function without crippling anxiety? As for calling him a baby, did you read her further posts than just the first one? clearly this man has also suffered verbal abuse over his sexual performance in the past, and has physical sensation issues also with sex, he needs SUPPORT, not ridicule and name calling.

VA hold your horses! Since when I was making a personal attack at you or all people with a crippling disease? My boyfriend doesn't have a phobia. I call him a germ freak in jest all the time and he also jokes about it. It's not an attack on him, I love him dearly. As for making this about you, well that's a little bit unfair isn't it. You know I wasn't attacking anyone.
And to the others that just belittled my boyfriend without reading the rest of the post you are being unfair also. If I left every guy who made a mistake there would be no men left.

Maybe everyone just needs to be a little more understanding. It is a phobia and something people really struggle with and should be treated with respect, don't mock someone for having it. But also, everyone handles it their own way, if he makes a joke of it and wants others around him to, it makes light of the situation he's in, I joke about my learning difficulties all the time because it makes it easier. If you deal with it differently that's fine but respect others ways too. It was right to check whether she was mocking him nastily behind his back or whether it was something he's ok with. But find out before you take offence. But also bear in mind some terms you use in your own home can be seen as offensive to there in the outside world who really suffer with it and are sensitive to such terms

I think VA was taking offence at buttsinyourface, who joined in the conversation without having read more than the first post and started calling Misswendy's partner a baby and being derogatory towards his phobia. Buttsinyourface then apologised. We all make stupid flippant remarks sometimes, let's all take a deep breath and move on.

Misswendy I'm so glad things are already looking better with your partner, communication is so important and sometimes a good conversation like that can really turn things around. Well done for initiating the conversation and best of luck with everything!

I think VA was taking offence at buttsinyourface, who joined in the conversation without having read more than the first post and started calling Misswendy's partner a baby and being derogatory towards his phobia. Buttsinyourface then apologised. We all make stupid flippant remarks sometimes, let's all take a deep breath and move on.

Misswendy I'm so glad things are already looking better with your partner, communication is so important and sometimes a good conversation like that can really turn things around. Well done for initiating the conversation and best of luck with everything!

Haven't read the whole thread, but from my breeze through it seems his cleanliness issue may be causing him not to want dirty himself, he could try having a good read up about skin flora and micro-organisms which live on humans. Or maybe he has already read up on vaginal flora and this has stressed him out! I've had what I thought were spotlessly clean hands and looked at them under a microscope yuck! Love a bit of microbiology myself, good luck x, too much cleaning is also not good for your skin

Thank you... sorry I was only trying to help with my experiences, but I was a bit over the top. I did read the first and last post (admittedly, that wasn't all of them). I only referred to him as a health freak quoting the OP. The implying being "germ freak" is a bad thing was harsh I soon realised. (I don't think I met anyone before with a germ phobia so I mistook it for being snooty).

I definitely wouldn't stand for that and it sounds like you've put up with it so maybe he feels its fine because you're letting it go so maybe an ultimatum or you putting your foot down is in order. I'm sure he's a great guy and I'm not saying threaten something serious but sit him down and show you're serious and you want change, either sex with you or deal with the porn addiction as its hardly fair on you for it to be this way round. Porn is great but it sounds like he's substituting it for you. Sending lots of support your way because its tough when you're put in these tricky situations!

Sorry I didnt see there was a page 2! Seems I missed some drama but also some good info - phobias can be so hard to deal with, especially as VA said when you cant see them! I have a wasp phobia but any buzzing and I cant breathe! It sounds like he has alot of support in you though so I'm sure you'll be able to work something to favour both of you! x

There is a big difference between somebody not being intimate because: excuses and someody who suffers a genuine phobia or anxiety disorder. Like VirginAngel, I suffer from a crippling anxiety disorder myself (different from hers, but in many ways related) and I can tell you, almost everyone who suffers mental health issues wish like mad they could be different. They don't choose it, they are just taken along for the ride. It can be crushing.

When you suffer in that way, it can be veryyyy easy to be triggered by someone elses comments. Because I am triggered by conversation that happens reasonably common between humans, I have learned to walk away and not react, because it is me who has the issue with those comments. Most others don't. Thing is, people get triggered by so many things, it is hard to avoid saying the wrong word or using the wrong phrase (wrong as in: triggering to another). I believe that, unless you are purposely going out your way to be offensive and rude, then it can't be helped sometimes.

I suspect buttsinyourface referral to the term "germ freak" came from the OPs use of this word to describe her man and as she stated, the two of them use that term together and laugh about it. It is not offensive in their world.

Sorry, dunno why I am explaining all that....just that I understand both points of view.

With regards to the OP and her recent updates: If he is suffering from an OCD/anxiety related phobia, the truth is that more often than not, without help, it will stay the same or get worse. See, what MANY of us with phobias do (and as VA pointed out perfectly) is we have "coping behaviours" to help us deal with the phobia. For example, the showering for 2 hours and the laying down towels and other things VA mentioned. I have coping behaviours relating to my anxiety disorder....

The problem is, these coping behaviours can become more and more, until we eventually have to completely avoid the thing that terrifies us (as VA hints to...she mentioned one day it might be that she just cannot anymore and is worried about that as a real possibility)

I strongly believe that improvements will come only if his desire to change overpowers his desire to keep on coping. It is a terrifying thing to get to a point where you admit you need help (and males struggle most with this part, because they have it drummed into them to be strong and never weak) but I suspect if his phobia is already really putting him off sex, it is serious enough to effect his relationships and serious enough to see if he can get help. Problem is, he has to want it, you can't force him.

You can continue to make life easier for him by going along with all his coping behaviours, but in a way, you are helping him continue that way of being. You need to have a cut-off point where you have to say "okay, your anxiety is effecting me in dramatic ways now and I know you are struggling, but so am I" and then keep communicating and supporting, but not giving in to every demand on you that makes you feel like shit. Sometimes, I go through INTENSE anxiety just to see my partner do something that I know he needs to do in order to be a "normal" person. If I let my anxiety win every time, I would be arguing with him to stop his "normal" behaviour in order to appease my anxiety. I can't do that to him because eventually he will resent it. It really is a difficult one.

Also, you need to understand that when he describes "not getting enough sensation" from sex, there is a good reason for that. He has become too accustomed to masturbating. It is known as "death grip syndrome" and men who suffer from it find it difficult to enjoy sex because the vagina is not as tight, or direct as his hand is. Of course, most straight men rate vaginal penetration as being intensely pleasurable, because they are mixing it up, there penis has not become used to one type of sensation and therefore they can really enjoy the softer, wetter, more subtle feelings from penetration. Your man mostly, or always, using porn and his hand to get there and has done, I assume, since he was a teen....how many years has that been? He has become so used to one type of stimulation and now no other will do.

This CAN be solved and once again it requires him to make the effort. To be honest, I would bristle a little bit if he didnt put in this little bit of effort, since you are making so many sacrifices at the moment to support him. He needs to stop masturbating and stop the porn. Completely. (it probably wont work if he still masturbates and uses porn sporadically). Then, he needs to be with you and keep experiencing new sensations. At first it will be a massive fail, he may struggle, may go soft etc...but over time, his body and mind will adapt to the idea that pleasure = you in all forms as opposed to pleasure = hand only. Once he has re-wired his brain and pleasure centres to enjoying sex with you, or oral, or your hand jobs, he can then introduce his own masturbation back into it. He just has to be careful not to revert back to relying on that quick and easy approach. This means, no orgasm until he has it from any other type of play. In other words, he can't "finish himself off" next to you, after attempting sex, because it defeats the point really.

Google death grip syndrome and ways to overcome it, then pass the info along. Make him understand its probably not that sex is not pleasurable to him, but that he has trained himself OUT of finding it pleasurable.