Manuski means humanism in Marathi. A term used by Dr B.R.Ambedkar, a great humanist of India. This blog want stimulating debate without any prejudices of caste, religion and nationalism. It is about humanism and human rights. All freethinkers are welcome to contribute and participate in stimulating debates.

Tuesday, May 16, 2017

The role of Savita Ambedkar in the life of Baba Saheb Ambedkar : Vijay Surwade

Vijay Surwade is a living
encyclopedia of Ambedkarism in India. And it is not merely about his indepth
and detailed knowledge of life and time of Dr Baba Saheb Ambedkar but also his
passion to collect Baba Saheb’s original photographs of different events as
well as his original documents and letters. His collection of these original
documents related to Baba Saheb Ambedkar is a national asset. He worked very
closely with Mai Saheb Ambedkar, wife of Dr Baba Saheb Ambedkar. In this very
important conversation, perhaps for the first time, an Ambedkarite speak in
depth about how Mrs Savita Ambedkar faced all her life allegations about her
maltreatment to Dr Ambedkar. Vijay Surwade ji’s documents prove categorically
that a few of the Ambedkarites used their political ambition over the truth and
for that Mrs Savita Ambedkar became an easy and soft target. We are placing
some excerpts of the entire conversation of Mr Vijay Surwade with activist writer Vidya Bhushan
Rawat, available on Lokayat channel at Youtube. This is just a very small
portion of the entire conversation and we hope one day, we will be able to
transcribe the entire script for the benefit of the viewers in English
language.

VB: How did you come in
touch with Ambedkarism? What inspired you the most?

VS: I was born in Jalgaon
district. Right from childhood we had heard about Baba Saheb. My mother’s
father was a Gardner in railways. He was illiterate but a staunch Ambedkarite.
He used to go to attend the meeting of Dr Baba Saheb Ambedkar. He used to tell
me about the movement, about Baba Saheb and his vast knowledge. Hearing from
him the curiosity increased day by day. So out of curiosity, I started
collecting his photographs. I was three years old during the Mahaparinirwana of
Baba Saheb in 1956 so no opportunity to meet him but now I feel if I were born
a few years earlier, I would have definitely met him. The curiosity increased
day by day, it was increasing as I was growing and learning. I passed
matriculation and joined Siddharth College and I was staying in the hostel in
1970. I completed my graduation in 1974 and during this period I got to know
many things, it was changing period for me. Dalit Panthers had started during
the same period. Raja Dhale, Arun Kamble, J V Pawar and myself would sit
together and discuss things. I was more attached to Raja Dhale. He had a
different take on everything so he also liked me and the vice versa. We used to
read and share. Fortunately, Siddhartha college library was so rich as all the
original copies Baba Saheb’s work were there. I started reading them even when
I did not know much English as upto 11th, I was studying in Marathi
medium. Though English was there in 5th standard yet because it was
not my first language hence could not do much in this but after college, the
situation changed as Bombay University, right from the beginning is English
medium. So, I started reading books of Baba Saheb. I bought an oxford dictionary
English Marathi and started writing
meanings of tough words in Marathi and that made me understand the meaning of
the word that Baba Saheb had used in his books.

In Childhood, I had kept one note
book and whatever photograph that I got, I would paste it in the notebook. There
were photographs in wedding invites etc, I would put all the photographs in my
note book. So to that extent my curiosity was there about Baba Saheb. When I
came to Mumbai and saw original photographs of Baba Saheb, then I realize the
difference between the original photographs and the artificial ones. Then I started searching original
photographs. In the beginning, I would go to photo studios. I was living in
Hostel, near Dadar that time. Then I started locating colleagues of Baba Saheb
in the movement. Asking about how he looked like. If they had any papers or
photographs. They would not give me photographs because of their bad experiences.
Once Bhaiya Saheb Ambedkar organized a photo exhibition and he put a lot of
photographs but people took it and lot of important photographs were lost. I
used to pursue the case if they had photographs but people would insult me too.
People would lie to that I have photographs even when they did not have. I did
not have money as I was poor but I had to pursue that I would buy them. Even if
I had photographs, I had to have negative. My father was an clerk in
municipality and my mother died when was in 8th standard. My father
used to send me some money.

Then my collection was becoming
bigger. There was Dil studio in Dadar near Baba Saheb’s House. There was a
number of photographs. Negatives were of bigger size. They were 10X12 inch It
was difficult to find. I used to go there then he used to do. It was not easy
to find. I went everywhere to meet individuals, organizations, institutions. I
learnt so many things from these experiences but I learnt how to allure people
to get the photographs that I would give you bigger size. Come along with me.
But I learnt from my experiences.

VB: How many photographs?

VS: I have not counted but
those are in thousands. Those are from all over India. I did not go to foreign
countries but I have two photographs from round table India which Jabbar Patel
gave me. But from India, I travelled everywhere. I joined Bank after graduation.
I got married.

VB: Tell us about the
conspiracy theories that Mai Saheb faced about Baba Saheb. All these need to be
cleared as it is too much and people are using it for their own purposes. What
is your impression?

VS: I have been hearing this
since childhood. Some people said that she poisoned him in buttermilk. Other
said she was giving him slow poison. Lokhande said that she killed him
throttling him in the pillow. There were so many conspiracy theories. Was Baba
Saheb such a small child to be done like that.

Baba Saheb wrote a preface on
Decmeber 5th about her role. Most of the people like Sohan Lal
Shastri and others used to feel bad when Mai Saheb would deny. So most of the
friends of Baba Saheb would come him unusual time and without any preplanned
visit. She was a doctor as well as a wife. So she had to play dual role. Today,
doctors don’t allow people to meet even wife. Wives’ will have their own
concern. She was a doctor and always concerned about his diet. She had written
about his diet and was very particular about Baba Saheb. She was strictly going
according to the time table required for Baba Saheb from the point of view of
medicine, health, food and rest. If anyone comes in between why should she
allow. He was doing such an important task for community, his time was
important. How would a wife concerned so much allow people to disturb him. We
were ultimately deceiving Baba Saheb. We are trying to tell as if Dr Ambedkar
was fool. They had a love affair for over a year. She was Baba Saheb’s lover.
My daughter has written a book on that.

VB: Tell us about Mai Saheb’s relations with Baba
Saheb

VS: I came to her contact
when I was a student in Siddharth College. She used to come to Baviskar’s
house. It must have been around 1972. She knew I have been working on Baba
Saheb and it was a passion for me. One day she called me and showed me all the
letters between them. They were big
letters. Each one letter of baba sahib
to her are 18,20, 25 pages. They were in relationship for a year. She had
written to Baba Saheb, huge bunch of letter she showed to me and said these are
the ‘’motio ki mala’’. His hand writing was so beautiful. She said, just have a
look, don’t read them. They were very personal letter. It was between 1947 and 1948.
They wrote around 40-50 letters to each
other during this period. All letters were lengthy. All the letters of Baba
Saheb was in mid night as he was very busy. Her name was Sharda and Baba Saheb
used to call her Saru and later named her Savita. Her letter-head mast was S
and Baba Saheb was B. In one letter Savita wrote to him that she would like to
come and take care of him as he needed a doctor to take care of his health
particularly. Baba Saheb wrote to her that he would only love to bring her
legally after duly getting married. He was advised to keep a nurse. He wrote to
Mai too. Fortunately or unfortunately, my people consider me as their god. My
opponents are afraid of my character, which he wrote to Mai.

VB: Did Baba Saheb ever
speak to his son Yashwant about corruption?

VS: Mai wrote it. It was a
story of two builders who wanted to influence Baba Saheb when he was labour
Minister in Viceroy’s Council and CPWD was under him. It was related to some
contract and Yashwant had come to Delhi. As soon as Baba Saheb came to know
about this he got enraged. He asked Yashwant to leave immediately for Mumbai
and need not to come to Delhi.

VB: Do you think that Mai never deserve
how people behaved with her after the demise of Baba Saheb ?

VS: I was helping
Dhanajay. He knew that I was close to Mai. Keer wrote what Nanak Chand Rattu
gave to him. I can prove all this by document. Nanak Chand gave to Khairmudhe
and Keer. He wrote that Baba Saheb was very sad during his last days. Baba
Saheb was singing was a sign of happiness. It was a doha. He finished his
thesis before going to bed. Kautslyayan said that the preface was on the table.
The biggest credit he gave to Mai Saheb.. I was a dying flame by a doctor.
Successful rekindling of this dying flame is due to my doctor wife and Dr
Mavalankar. I am immensely grateful to them. She was an Ambedkarite, She was a
Buddhist lifelong. Many people did not accept her. But this is changing. J V
Pawar, Arjun Dangle says that we did not do justice to Mai. Shanti Swroop Baudh
too was of the opinion formed by Rattu but later all of them changed due to my work.
People did not inform us about Mai’s contribution. Baba Saheb married to Brahmin but she was a
Buddhist. She became Budhist. I have seen her very closely. For Riddles she
spoke passionately.

VB: What is her role in
the Riddles movement?

VS: She was a leader. She
went all over, spoke everywhere. She spoke against Bal Thackery. Mai Saheb was
very particular about the unpublished work of Baba Saheb. And this is 1959,
when none knew about her except Rattu. For unpublished work, she got Mr Jadhav.
She did not get any Royalty though Prakash get it even today. I have the
agreement. I was close to both Dhananjay Keer and Mai. I have the original copy
of the letter. When he received that he admitted the contribution of Mai Saheb.
He realized that a lot of injustice was done to Mai Saheb. In fact Keer wanted
to write a book on her but Mai never wanted him to do so.

I asked her you killed Baba Saheb
when I met her. I heard it from childhood. I felt she would be angry but she
laughed. ‘What is the new thing that you are asking’, she said. ‘I have been
hearing this for years’. Later Dhale discussed with me and we felt that Baba
Saheb did all of the work because of her. It would have been impossible if she
was not cooperative to him. She was with him at the most critical moment.
She would have stopped him against Deeksha.
Mai and Baba Saheb took deeksha May 2, 1950, at Birla Mahabodhi Vihar in
Delhi by Aryawansh Bhante. Bhadant Anand Kautslyayan also wrote about this
deekhsa.

I felt she should allow Keer to
write about her life. I have the audio-recorded Mai’s original voice about
herself. Mai was very active. She would go to meeting and conferences. Later
Keer too got ill and died so the project remained unfulfilled. She would tell
me so many stories. And I felt all those stories must come out. I used to think
with that positive angle. When she would tell us her memoir, I felt Mai’s
contribution must come out. Letters must come out at any cost. There are a lot
of personal things, I removed them and decided to write. She used to speak Marathi but she had command
over English. I would help you to write memoirs and then she accepted it.

I decided a frame about the book.
Baba Saheb’s up and down must come out. What was his physical position when Mai
came in his life? What work Baba Saheb did during the time when Mai came in his
life.

So, I decided since 1930. All the
health issues, I had. At one point of it became too critical. Nobody was there
to help him. The stage when he had blood pressure. ‘’You are doing great work. I
needed to help him. He need my help, it was saying my doctor inside me. I took
up the decision’’, Mai said. It was Mai’s
revolutionary step despite being Brahmin and that too a medical doctor from
Grand Medical College during British from 1937 she decided to marry Baba Saheb.
Sohanlal wrote about her that she was a nurse but fortunately I got the
original certificate. I have the original certificate of Mai.

About Role of Nanak Chand Rattu

It has been dubious. I knew him
from closely. Mai was too stubborn some time. Bhiaya Saheb was fighting with
her on property issue so Shankaranand Shastri and Nanak Chand Rattu had sympathy
for him. Many people would ask me how I could stay with her. She was blunt. She
used to say, I am Ambedkar, hence it is my right. When I don’t take anything
from any one then why should I be afraid?

The bungalow at 26 Alipur Road
was on rent. It was owned by Sivai’s Maharaja. Baba Saheb had helped him through
adjudication. They had two bungalows 26 and 27 and wanted to sale them to Baba
Saheb for one lakh rupees each. Dr Ambedkar said he did not have the money. So
they had the problem of staying in Delhi after he resigned from the government.
So, the Maharaja gave it on rent. Mararaja died and the new legatees asked Mai
to leave the place. She did not vacate it. She went to the court. She came to
Mumbai to live with her relatives. People blamed her that she sold the
property. Rattu used to assist Mai Saheb. He was continuously in touch with
her. I have a letter in 2001 written to me seeking my cooperation to get help
from Mai. One case, Mai could not go and court gave ex-parte order. The bungalow
was sealed and the household items, precious books and belonging of Baba Saheb
were thrown away. It was in 1967. It was raining so many things was left out.
So it was distributed into three places to keep them safe among Rattu, Shastri
and others. You will be surprised that Mai stayed a Rattu’s place. So Rattu was
speaking against her outside but kept her inside her.

Shankaranand used to meet me
whenever he used to come to Mumbai. We were travelling in Bus to Mazgaon. He
told me Rattu was stooge of Mai. After Shankarnand told me, I felt it. He helped
in selling the plot. I asked Mai and then she told me that he kept me at our
house. He was just a typist. He used to do initial in whatever he typed. I told
her the copy of his letters which she did not know. She was shocked. He has so
many letters written on inlands to Mai.

Mai would call me around three to
four times. She told me Rattu came and added, ‘’I asked him what has you
written about me. He said, I have been helping you’’. Then she threw file at
him and just asked him to leave the place. I think this is about 1990s. In 2001
he wrote to me. He gave much ‘’belonging’’ of Baba Saheb in Chichuli and Wolver
Hampton. but many things are absolutely duplicate but most of the stuff was
given provided by Mai. Many things I have heard that he ( Rattu) purchased from old market and gave them in the
name of Baba Saheb. He died in 2002. Mai passed away in 2003. He knew that Mai
has known it. He wrote to me in 2001. He said, you are so close to Mai. It is
easy to get the things done. Actually
the things donated to Chicholi was given to Mr Godbole. There was some
misunderstanding. Godbole knew things. Rattu wanted a letter from Mai that the
stuff that he has and given to Godbole belonged to Rattu. I typed it. By 2001
Mai’s conditions had deteriorated. Her memory was lost. My wife cleaned her
many time. I had typed the letter. I felt it was not right to get signed. Rattu
send me a letter send me a sample of letter head of Mai Saheb on her behalf. In
2002 he died and in 2003 Mai passed away.

This is an important part of
Ambedkarite movement. Why should a woman who was dutifully and legally married
to Baba Saheb Ambedkar is seen as conspirator and outsider. She was boycotted.
It shows that caste system has so much in our blood that we could not give her
justice. Baba Saheb gave us the path of Buddhism. How much have we succeeded?
There are success stories. The dream of Prabuddha Bharat is yet to be fulfilled.
There are very few examples. I would say
sadly. Everyone is working according to his own agenda. We failed politically
completely.

What is the use of joining hand
with BJP. It is painful.

We do not want Dalit word but as
a movement we needed Dalit Panther today. Mai Saheb used to say, don’t dissolve
it. Let it like be an aggressive wing, fighting against injustice. She said in
speech. Make it three wings: Political, religious and educational. Those who
are interested should lead it so there would not be fight against it. So if
Dhale was interested in religion so he should lead that. Ramdas was interested
in politics so he should lead that. It was actually a very wise advice.

Today there are over 100 groups
of RPIs. Everything has become opportunist. It is not going accordingly. They
must unite. During the riddles movement, all people have got united. They were
together fighting against ban on Riddles. I have heard Kanshiram saying that you
worship anyone but just vote us. I heard it in Jabalpur and did not like it.

VB: What are you planning
to protect this ‘national asset’ that you have which is of great importance as
a history of Ambedkarite movement? Many stories people have not heard. They
have remained unknown.

VS: I have not begged from any one. None want to
become like Baba Saheb. People do not care. They are unable to bring real Baba
Saheb. We are not bringing him to people. It is backstabbing with the movement.
Baba Saheb became very sensitive when he saw and said if do not take this
movement any further don’t take it back.

VB: Where is the movement?

VS: I don’t know anything
of politics. I am not interested. Practically everyone sknows me personally. We
lived together in hostel including Gavai, Kavade. I am not interested in their
politics.

VB: An Ambedkarite you
have lived your life. What are those things you won’t compromise?

VS: We can’t survive on
our own politically but We will have to alliance with those who ideology with
Baba Saheb. We can’t compromise with Hindutva at any cost. We can’t compromise
with Psychology, philosophy which made us enslaved till date. It is not
essential that they agree to everyone but you have to agree on complimentary
ideas. He had good relations with M N Roy. Baba Saheb helped him and it was
debated in Parliament. People have become selfish. How could an Ambedkarite be
part of Shiv Sena?

VB: What is your vision
and what would you appeal to Ambedkarites world over?

VS: I won’t ask anyone to
help me. I have two options. First, we have a Foundation. Athawale has
promised. Mai has done so much and we must do it for her. You make a trust and
I will get the land. Mai used to give her ( my wife) saris, shawls, chashma,
letters, photographs to my wife and we have kept them as safe. We have to preserve
them but for that one need money. Athawale is saying that he would take me to
chief minister. Athawale used to give me
a lot of respect because of Mai. He gives respect to all. Second, fortunately,
I retired as deputy general manager, IDBI. I have a flat in the society. If I
get my possession then I will live there and leave this house as a memorial.
Some body will be here. We will donate the material. WE need to preserve the
material. Third option, Symbiosis is ready to do this. They have money, place
and machinery including technology. If I give them then, they can preserve it.
So these are three options. My son is in USA. I don’t know whether he comes or
not. He reads but may not have the same interest. The way I have done, he might
not have the same. This is property of Ambedkarite society. It is of Ambedkar
Samaj. I don’t consider it for any one.
I will donate it.

Followers

About Me

Learning through working. Working at the grassroots made me realise the big difference between those who claim to represent communities as well as the communities themselves. Common man is crushed between the ambitions of various individuals to lead and dominate. The dominant and high numbered communities will always dominate our discourse and the most marginalised are losing in this entire discourse. That is the reason why Mushahar remain at the marginalised and the issue of manual scavenging still not on our top agenda and to eliminate that the community has to decide its own organisations..

I am devoted to freedom of ideas and expression. I personally feel that we in the subcontinent want to dominate and control our discourse and each one of is a ultra nationalist in terms of their caste and community. Nationalism is not just national and political but it is equally in term of religion and caste. I feel each kind of nationalism is a dominant discourse which deny the dissenter a right to speak.

At the end, we all want to listen the truth suitable to us.. we have become expertised in the art of speaking truth of convenience. As long as that remain hall mark of our society and we speak to already converts, this society will remain stagnant, it will always try to control our ideas and choices. We need to oppose any such perception, ideas that want to control our mind and victimise us.

To understand India further, I feel, it is good to do foot walk, ( Padyatras) to various parts of the country. I have so far done it thrice covering nearly 1500-2000 kilometers. It is always interesting to see how people are coping their issues and what is the reason of their exploitation.