Every Relationship Is Casual Until It’s Not

Name: History repeats itself : Question: Hi, I’ll start by saying I love your blog, I’ve easily read all of your posts multiple times and appreciate your upfront honesty. I try to mirror that in my life as well and be as straight forward as possible,

So in December 2015 I met two guys, one via tinder and the other in person by a mutual friend. Guy #1 I met on tinder and I messaged and snap chatted but he never asked for my number, I just gave it to him when I got tired of messaging through the app. We talked for 2 months before finally meeting at the bars. He came home and met my friends and roommate and we hooked up that night.

I told him upfront that I am not the f-buddy type. I wish I were, it’d make things easier but I get emotionally attached over the long term, and if that was his intention I wasn’t his girl. He assured me that was not what he wanted but over time that became our routine: about every other weekend he’d take me out for a cheap dinner and one of us would spend the night at the other’s house. After another 2 months I ended things, I don’t mind moving slowly but it was apparent to me I was just being strung along.

Around the same time guy #1 and I were going through our “break up”, guy #2 began texting me more. We had hooked up while I was home for Christmas break but I never thought much more of him and went back home. He came into town to visit and stayed at my place. Then he surprised me with a trip to Disney world out of the blue, later that same day I met his parents. The next day I came home from work to a flower delivery. I thought that these were true signs of serious commitment (or interest at the very least) but he later told me he did not have the slightest interest in a relationship. So once again, I ended things.

I guess the ultimate questions that this boil down to are is the half dating “relationship” the norm these days?(Regular sex with no commitment, no accountability, and no labels)

Were there warning signs I missed that led me to basically date the same guy twice?

Are these guys out of my league and just taking me for a ride?

Both times my ending things resulted in arguments, were they just mad because I was cutting off a source of sex, or because they actually cared?

I made my intentions clear in the beginning to both that I am not interested in casual sex/ no commitment and yet I still ended up here twice, I don’t want to be here again and I feel like this is 100% my fault because there is a lesson I’m not getting in all this.

I appreciate all the advice I get, thank you! Age: 25

He came home and met my friends and roommate and we hooked up that night. I told him upfront that I am not the f-buddy type.

Wait. Wut? If you’re not the fuck buddy type, then why are you taking guys from Tinder home on the first date and hooking up with them? That sounds super slut shamey, and I don’t mean it to, but there’s a palpable cognitive dissonance going on here.

I told him upfront that I am not the f-buddy type. I wish I were, it’d make things easier but I get emotionally attached over the long term, and if that was his intention I wasn’t his girl.

Let me guess: he said that wasn’t his intention? You just discovered why it took two months for him to meet you. While you two were busy doing The SnapChat he was hooking up with other girls. He’d throw you a bone every now and then by messaging with you to keep you invested, but for the most part he was busy screwing other women. Which is perfectly fine since he isn’t your boyfriend and never appeared to want to be. Then you two finally met up “at the bars” which sounds suspiciously like he agreed to meet up with you one night when he was already out. Which, you know, isn’t really a compliment. Then you take him home and hook-up with him.

So basically, you accepted the minimal scraps he threw on the ground for you…but you’re not looking for a fuck buddy. That’s funny, because you totally presented yourself as someone who was perfectly okay with screwing some guy who offered you literally nothing beyond a cold burger and a warm beer.

The minute you said you weren’t looking for something casual, he had you pegged. Why? Because usually the women who say things like that are women who sleep with men very quickly and then get blown off. Jackpot. You gave yourself away.

Grand proclamations like,” I’m not that kind of girl” mean nothing to most guys. They hear it all the time, and it’s usually before a woman’s head is in their lap. That’s because most women who say things like that don’t stand their ground. They have sex anyway. So guys just nod and say all the right things, knowing it will get them the sex. At best they’ll maybe have to wait until the second date, but not much longer than that. It’s a ruse and every experienced guy knows it.

Only take guys home on the first date if you’re okay with the possibility of things never going beyond casual. Like most women, guys pay attention to actions, not words. So, if you take him home after the first date – especially when he’s made literally no effort to meet you and you were all, “NO HOOK-UPS PLZ!!!” – he’s going to assume he can get away with anything. You put up a good front, but that facade crumbled the minute you allowed that guy into your bed despite his overwhelming lack of effort.

The big glaring red flag you ignored was that Tinder Guy – aside from the fact that he never asked for your number and you hadoot give it to him – waited two months before deigning to meet you for a drink “at the bars.” What the fuck is that even? Is that a twenty-something thing? Enough of the Tinder messaging and SnapFacing or whatever it is you kids do these days. If someone doesn’t try to communicate with you off of any social media platform, they’re not that interested. Period. Honestly, if you’re making all the effort, he’s just not that into you.

I guess the ultimate questions that this boil down to are is the half dating “relationship” the norm these days?(Regular sex with no commitment, no accountability, and no labels)

Yes, this is the norm now. The red flag in guy number two’s case is that he pulled out all the stops so quickly. You went from one extreme to the other. Anybody who pours it on that thick, that soon is suspect. Approach with caution.

I made my intentions clear in the beginning to both that I am not interested in casual sex/ no commitment and yet I still ended up here twice,

You didn’t make your intentions clear. AT ALL. With the first guy, you gave the guy the goodies the first night you met him even though he showed literally no signs of making much effort. The second was so desperate to get laid that he played Super Boyfriend to get you into bed, then pulled back. That’s what happens when you whip out disclaimers like, “I’m not looking for a hook-up.” You either get the guys who only want a hook-up or get the ones so eager to get laid they go overboard then step back once they get the sex. Or they bail all together because they sense the woman is going to be too much work.

I have no idea if you’re batting out of you league. I do know that you talk a good game but you don’t follow through. That’s your challenge.

Both times my ending things resulted in arguments, were they just mad because I was cutting off a source of sex, or because they actually cared?

Forgive me but….how the hell do I know? I’ wasn’t there. I’m not in their heads. I don’t know what was said. Both scenarios sound like a jumble of crossed wires, so I don’t doubt these conversations got heated.

I don’t want to be here again and I feel like this is 100% my fault because there is a lesson I’m not getting in all this.

There is a lesson that you’re not getting: if you don’t want to end up in something casual, don’t tip your hand. Don’t tell guys you’re not looking for a hook-up or for something casual. Either hold off on sleeping with them until you’ve gotten to know them better (beyond social media) or assume the default position of every relationship is casual until it’s not.

37 Responses to “Every Relationship Is Casual Until It’s Not”

The fact that a guy took two months to meet up with you means he is not into you and never will be. I learned this the hard way.

Also,. i think there are a lot of people who met their long-term partners or spouses via a fuckbuddy type relationship or a one-night stand, and because those women tend to brag about it in a,’ ‘I am so special’ kind of way, a fair number of women think they too can turn fews into bfs. The problem is that of course that happens. But the vast majority of casual sex situations stay casual. So yeah. If you want to sleep with someone ‘early’ on, you have to be ok with the idea that the guy won’t see you again, or more likely, that he will see you again for sex

I can also say this. I am not someone who can do casual sex. I am not someone who can have sex with a guy I don’t know well. Therefore, I don’t have sex for awhile.

“I told him upfront that I am not the f-buddy type. I wish I were, it’d make things easier but I get emotionally attached over the long term, and if that was his intention I wasn’t his girl. He assured me that was not what he wanted but over time that became our routine: about every other weekend he’d take me out for a cheap dinner and one of us would spend the night at the other’s house.”

If you really aren’t the f-buddy type…don’t DO f-buddy type.

Which is:
Having sex with guys who delayed even meeting you for 2 months.

And guys who only want to see you every two weeks for sex.

You don’t need to SAY anything. Listen. Observe how words and actions match up. If they don’t…always go with the actions.

Moxie, Love the Headline of this post. Wish forums like this were around when I was in my 20’s.

So much cognitive dissonance going on with LW. Do you even know what you want? None of this would have happened if you ditched Tinder Boy after two months of nothing on that stupid site (THERE, I SAID IT). How does anyone stay on Tinder for two months?

His weirdness primed you for Disney Boy, so you ate up his shtick with a spoon. Too much, too soon. Trip to Disney, flowers, and meet the parents?

Actions, not words. It’s all you need. Plus a backbone so you can say no to these posers. Disney Boy’s actions made no sense. Your WORDS make no sense. You’re acting like a good time girl. Stop hooking up if you want a relationship. Respect yourself if you want people to respect you.

I see way too many women make this mistake. They think it is self-evident what they offer. It isn’t. Why would a guy want to hang out with you instead of all the other women that like him? (And if YOU like him, OTHER women like him, too).

Do you have interesting things to say? Do you actually listen to what he says? Do you add any value to his life whatsoever? Just showing up is NOT enough anymore. His attention will drift every single time to the woman who can talk about sports/politics/life/art/news/work/movies/Game-of-Thrones. And if you CAN’T talk about one of those subjects, men are probably getting bored with you.

You may THINK you had the most interesting conversation ever, but the skilled man can easily make you think that because he knows how to focus on you. It is trivial for any half-intelligent guy to learn how to have a conversation that is satisfying for the woman. Ask her questions, dig deeper on things she seems interested in, and throw in the occasional anecdote from your own life that relates to something she said. Wash, rinse, repeat.

But many times this is too much work. “Ask questions” and “dig deeper” are draining. After 1 or 2 dates, if there is no flow, we decide it isn’t worth it anymore. It is too much effort. This is especially true for those of us in the 30+ age range. Sex really isn’t worth it. If you are “just showing up”, we get bored and bounce.

Sorry to sound harsh, but as a guy on Tinder who gets lots of matches, I see dozens of interchangeable women every single day. If you can’t hold onto guys, you are probably one of those women. The good news is you can change, but it isn’t easy.

Dude, I know everything there is to know about football (lifelong fan and former NFL cheerleader) and…no guy I’ve dated has ever given a sh*t. They want to talk offensive schemes with their friends, not with me. Just out of curiosity, should men be bringing anything to the table or should women just plan on carrying the whole thing?

P.s. Ladies, if you’re looking to stand out from all the “interchangeable” women, talking about a television show that literally millions of people watch is the way to go. Apparently, “Omg the High Sparrow is suuuuch a dick.” = success. Bonus points for watching CNN pre-date, so as to impress your interviewer with your knowledge of current events.

These are examples. I thought that was obvious but I guess I have to spell it out. It is your job to find out what the guy is interested in. This isn’t Cosmo where you get a nice list of “10 Things That EVERY Guy Is Interested In”.

As for what a guy brings to the table, I would say: good conversation, the ability to plan dates and evenings out, the willingness to listen, humor, introduction to interesting hobbies, and sex. If you read dating advice for men, it is almost *entirely* based on answering this question.

As you said in your last paragraph, it isn’t going to be easy for us interchangeable nimrods to learn how make basic conversation on a date. You might find that the fact that you don’t actually like women makes it difficult for you to find them interesting.

THANK you. Made my head explode. And, I mean, I do not care at all about professional sports. No guy has ever held that against me. I love how the advice is always about what a woman should talk about on a date. Because apparently all men are so fascinating all the time,

I really love the part in Gone Girl when Amy says she can’t wait for things to change, when men will pretend to love sewing and are obsessed with Jane Austen.,

Riiiiiiight, but he’s not talking about “picking up”. What he’s saying is that, on an actual date, women can’t handle the usual topics of conversation. Like, what are these women he’s supposedly dating talking about? Are they just alternating between staring off into space and giving a play-by-play of their afternoon pedicure? Don’t buy it. Some men just don’t like women and like to take any opportunity to tell them that they suck.

I do not care about professional sports either, and let me add something else. No man I ever dated had ever seriously followed professional sports. A few refused to watch sports on principle. They each had their own life and their own interests, which most of the time just happened not to include sports. You never read about that in Cosmo or whichever magazine dispenses the kind of advice on “how to talk to your cookie-cutter guy on your cookie-cutter date”.

‘This is especially true for those of us in the 30+ age range. Sex really isn’t worth it. If you are “just showing up”, we get bored and bounce.”

Dude, I am gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. This advice comes across as beyond condescending. Guys get bored if all the woman does is show up? And…what? Every guy who is out there dating is just a….paragon of fascination?

Add to the fact that, well, the content of the conversation matters far less than whether there is chemistry between two people. AND, the LW was asking about guys using her for sex. The issues is not how interesting she is. The issue is her being with guys who only wanted sex.

I mean, this guy says he “sees dozens of interchangeable women a day”, meaning he’s judging strangers without actually speaking to them. He means they all look the same. He gets bored with dates because he’s either shallow and has no idea how to get to know anyone himself or just has a low opinion of women in general.

Sorry, but it is an inconvenient truth that, to be blunt, guys don’t care until girls give a reason to.

And before you fly off into a Wikipedia-fuelled, pseudo-DSM-V rage, not caring does not equate to hating. Bloody hell Oprah and Dr Phil have a lot answer for (‘open up your heart…’ what a crock of shit [I googled it], but I digress).

The not caring works both ways but not evenly; ’cause if a guy can attract one or two women, he can attract ten , but if he can’t get any then he’s (not)screwed (Pareto and all that); and I don’t see anyone urging ladies to throw themselves on the leftover-loser grenade.

So when a lady sits down with her potential serious paramour it’s not really a one-on-one, it’s an audition against the pool of others (with a whole heap of loser guys looking).

Yes, I know a lady can get sex on tap but, honestly, how many of those drooling, desperate, social ‘tards would you let into your bed? How many of them would you entertain as serious relationships? How many do you want to father your children? So in reality, it’s down to the few gents who you would bed & wed, and those guys know it.

Arseholes and douches don’t make it through life because of some desperate optimism that their behaviour will finally get them what they want with just one more try, even though it has never worked before. It’s operant all the way, ’cause arsehole gets what they want by being arseholes. Works at work, works in ‘dating’, just works (’cause if it didn’t…)

And don’t get your knickers in a knot and say ‘it doesn’t work with me’, ’cause it does. How many times have you backed down from an amped-up, overbearing dickhead? (‘Just let him have it’, ‘it’s not worth it’, ‘I don’t want to cause a scene’, etc.). Congratulations, you just reinforced their behaviour and have built a better arsehole. As for dating, if the arsehole-posturing (sometimes known as cocky confidence) doesn’t work on you then you’re too much effort so you’re skipped over for the lady (figuratively) behind you who isn’t.

When there are so many ladies the rational decision is to make minimum effort and abandon at the first hurdle. Step aside from yourself and think how many women could be approached with the resources you may demand be spent to ‘woo’ you? Would you bet on 1/10 10 times or 1/50 100 times? So you have to make yourself worth that opportunity cost.

Now, how a lady makes herself ‘worth it’, and who she attempts to show she’s ‘worth it to’ are the questions. It boils down in part to DL’s somewhat clumsily asserted ‘offer more than sex’ but the Devil’s in the details.

It’s amazing to me how there is always someone who manages to shoe in a comment about women chosing alphas (“arseholes”) over betas (“desperate losers”). Nothing in this comment ties into what the OP is going through, how to fix it, or the rest of the comments.

First of all, women are told ALL the time to go for “losers.” All the time.

Secondly, most women dont care on a first date either. You like a guy or you dont. Also i do not think guys date with the intention of figuring out who requires the least effort. People who think that just want sex.

All people are just looking for a connection. Which means both people need to put in emotional effort to create that connection

Kiddo, it works both ways – if a woman can attract one man, she can attract twenty. The fact that you are telling me I’m going to fly into a rage tells everyone everything they need to know about how you approach women. As for, “How many times have you backed down from an amped-up, overbearing dickhead?” The answer would be zero. I talk to and date only men I like and respect. I meet people on a level playing field and expect a man I’m dating to do the same.

“…I am not the f-buddy type. I wish I were, it’d make things easier but I get emotionally attached over the long term…”

If you know this about yourself, then don’t put yourself in a f-buddy situation. Do not expect a guy whom you barely know to necessarily be considerate of your feelings. The only way to ensure a man is going to be respectful of you is to spend some time getting to know him. The purpose of dating, and not just hooking up, is to get to know each other first before getting emotionally involved. Don’t make yourself so vulnerable with someone you’re not sure you can trust.

I’m seeing a pattern in the last few posts where women are saying they want men to treat them a certain way, but then they don’t stand their ground, and the guys ends up walking all over them.

I agree with Yvonne…people only treat you as poorly or as exceptional as you let/require them. Unless you are that sex-starved, and need to get laid – but then do NOT expect these men to view you as more than just a one-night stand. Sure, there are exceptions everywhere…where one-night stands DID turn into long-term relationships, and some might lead to marriage…but do not let those instances fool you into thinking this is the norm. Anyone can take their sweet time getting to know you via the phone or lames texts…and then meet up with you after 2 months–and guess what? In the meantime, they are juggling/having sex with other women. They are not waiting around for you to give them the green light. Stand your ground, and back up your words with the proper actions. Don’t want to be a F%@$)-buddy? Then stop acting like one.

“If you know this about yourself, then don’t put yourself in a f-buddy situation. [b]Do not expect a guy whom you barely know to necessarily be considerate of your feelings.[/b] The only way to ensure a man is going to be respectful of you is to spend some time getting to know him.”

Yvonne, you hit the nail on the head, here. I do believe that the LW incorrectly believes that 2 months of chatting and texting constitutes getting to know the guy, and that might be one of the biggest problems with her approach… they are total strangers from the internet until they MEET IN PERSON. Nothing before that is real.

The other big problem, as Moxie and others pointed out, was making a point to tell guys on the first date that she doesn’t do casual sex. I encountered this when I was casual dating, bars, etc. right after my divorce. I would be talking to a woman, we would be laughing, flirting, having a good time, then out of the blue, she’d say something like, “I’m not going home with you tonight.” I learned pretty quickly that it meant she wanted to get laid every bit as badly as I did and was likely having an inner, “slut-shaming” dialogue and what came out wasn’t so much for me, as for her talking to herself. *shrugs*

Women who just plain didn’t do one night stands, casual sex, etc, just didn’t do it… they didn’t have to say the words.

Disclaimer: If the guy proposes “let’s go somewhere” and the woman counters with “I’m not going home with you tonight”, that is a NO and is a totally different scenario. See the dictionary for “going down in flames”, lol!

Nothing surprised me about Tinder dude. With Tinder, there is no context for any other interaction apart from sex.
The relationship trajectory is one where men and women meet, see if they are attracted enough to have sex, and then see if they are compatible enough to progress beyond it. In most cases, there is nothing to sustain a relationship beyond sex, and then not even long term sex.

I was more surpsied about how IRL dude 2 turned out. People who meet through their social cicle tend to be more circumspect in their dating habits as they don’t want runctions within their social circle when the romantic thing falls apart. Methinks dude 2 was looking for something more substandial or he wouldn’t have gone through all that effort and expense. Something must have happened to change his mind.

“People who meet through their social cicle tend to be more circumspect in their dating habits as they don’t want runctions within their social circle when the romantic thing falls apart”

This is typically true, BUT that all went out the window with his early, over-the-top, faux-relationshippy antics. Guy #2 was socially inept. I.e. his red flags were flying at full staff saying that he just… doesn’t… get… IT.

The OP seems to be getting what she is seeking. If she really wanted a relationship, she would not be engaging in the behavior she is or complaining as such. My advice to the OP–less hooking up, more dating.

Also, I like how she threw in that gem about one of the guys taking her on “cheap dinners.” Oh, and how the other guy buying her a trip and flowers are signed of true commitment. This girl has it all wrong. Perhaps this is one of the reasons she is pumped and dumped–her attitude. Women need to stop with the belief that they are entitled to anything material from dating. Or that buying things equals serious commitment. Further, it’s easy to say something is “cheap” when you are not the one paying for it.

Not ALL women think, or behave this way. This is why I just meet
a guy at a Starbucks…and buy my own $2.99 cup of coffee. So I don’t hear them whine and cry like some little girl that got her balloons popped at the zoo. The OP just needs to stand her ground, and not allow others to treat her a certain way. What you say and what you do needs to coincide with each other.

Do us all a favor and engage in this experiment. For one (1) month, date as you normally would. However, take your dates out on your own dime to eat and/or drink–you pay for everything. Now, after you concluded this experiment, come back and tell us your feelings about paying for everything on a date. Tell us if and how it has affected your budget. Tell us if you would appreciate being told your dating ideas/excursions were cheap despite paying for it all.

Bwahhhh…womp womb….Stop focusing on the nickel/dimes spent on a simple date. Just go dutch, if you are going to whine over such trivial nonsense. That’s what the majority of people do now, since dates consist of 1 drink or 1 cup of coffee….that is not going to break the bank. And if it does…perhaps you need to put dating on the back burner…and focus on handling your dire financial situation first. Both men and women invest in dating, with their time, energy and prepping to look their very best. It’s all part of the equation, and understood and accepted by mature adults. It’s so unappealing for a man to come across as a crying “Sad Sack”. Stop whining about $10. Pathetic.