But I may be overgeneralizing in thinking that you're smart enough to understand this (if you are a woman).

Are you serious? That was totally uncalled for. Does it really matter what my gender is? I am a strong woman, btw!

I understand that your thread is a sweeping negative generalization of women. Putting them in categories such as "weak-vessels", manipulative, the
physically weaker sex, not innocent. Nothing new, women have been dealing with statements like this for centuries. Off to clean the kitchen.

You can think I'm ignorant. But I know for a fact that I'm not sexist. But you can think that as well. I don't know how I could be sexist if I'm
saying that women are smart, for good or for bad. And if women are smart, that would mean that, generally speaking, men are not as smart as they are.
It's just that for some reason, that I can't explain, we live in a patriarchal society where men tend to subjugate women. But I thought that people
here on ATS were smart enough to realize that I wasn't condoning the subjugation.

I guess that some people get so heated up by a political discussion that they're not capable of thinking critically and seeing past the BS that they
get spoonfed by whoever they listen to. The only reason I put this thread here in the Mud-Pit is because it is a controversial idea that tends to
offend left thinking people.

I don't consider myself as being on the right, though. I agree with both the left and the right, and I also see both the left and the right as stupid.
Certain things about feminism that make me opposed to it could categorize me as right leaning. But I am not pro-gun, or pro-Christian,
etcetera.

Obviously I won the argument since this thread shows that people who are of the opposite opinion are brainwashed, and can't see the forest because of
the trees. All they see is "Woman-hater! Woman-hater!" They don't realize that my argument was much more nuanced than that. What a joke.

I have a hell of a lot of friends on Facebook who are constantly posting feminist nonsense and it really does my head in because all of their
arguments are the stupid kind. It's all showing videos of "women turning the tables on sexist men" and "women are better" and EQUALITY!! that
means women deserve a higher place in society than men do. I mean, c'mon. The human race will go no further if women are able to walk topless down
the street without it being classed as undecent ("BECAUSE MEN ARE ALLOWED SO WHY AREN'T WE?") - that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, I don't
want to see men or women with their shirts off. The men are usually fat and hairy and the women, well, I don't wish to think. Thank god for the
temperature not often reaching those levels where I'm from. And keep going on and on and on about how women are unfairly treated, go ahead, just
it's not gonna make people listen to you - I got bored of it months ago. And the best one is "Don't teach women to dress correctly, teach men not
to rape" because obviously the fact that rape is illegal, carries a prison sentence, and is frowned upon by a large proportion of the world isn't
teaching men not to rape.

Feminists, as a large, want to be better than men because something in their psyche is telling them that they are inferior, and so campaign to
be equal. And I really, really hate that. I hate it when people complain that there are no "female role models" but don't look beyond film and pop
stars to scientists and tech experts and firefighters, nurses, doctors, social workers and people who adopt and give kids better lives who are women
and are actually changing the world. I hate it when people complain they aren't equal to men and yet aren't looking for a job or education
that will better them and enable them to be the best. I hate it when women complain that other women are slags because they're wearing too much
make-up or too short skirts and then claim that it's a womans right to dress how she feels like because that is a feminist principle.

In short, I really dislike feminism as I see it. Which is an excuse for certain women to complain about stuff by giving it a "it's out of my hands
and we need to do something about it" great campaign where they basically just can't be bothered to change themselves. And yet I like equality. And
y'know what? I've never felt inferior to 'a generic man' in anything that that man wasn't just better than me at. And if he is better, is
that because he's a man? No. It's because he's bigger or stronger or more intelligent.

Everyone deserves to be equal, and in some places women are not. In those places, things need to change to enable it. Feminism works where women are
bought off young and forced to marry and have kids when they're kids themselves. Where they can't work or are restricted and get paid less money or
generally treated unfairly. But that doesn't happen everywhere and I think it's kinda vile to claim that it's the same in developed countries just
because a builder wolf-whistled at you in the street.

You make an excellent point. Studies have shown that women are underrepresented in STEM fields even though they are of course more than qualified. I
think that women should step up to the plate and own their intelligence. If they are being discriminated in those fields, that's a different story.
But if they feel that for some reason they can't hack it in those jobs, that's completely unacceptable.

This thread will hopefully soon be deleted. I'm sorry for all the trouble I caused, and for all the people who now view me as a misogynist. It
wasn't my intention. But the bottom-line is that this was one hell of a stupid thread. I agree that threads like this set equality relations back 50+
years, no matter how much you tip-toe around the issue. I am not proud of this thread at all and I am truly sorry. If there is anything that I can do
for you, within reason, please let me know. Thanks.

Feminists, as a large, want to be better than men because something in their psyche is telling them that they are inferior, and so campaign to
be equal.

I agree with this.
It was, at least, true of my own mother, who was a outspoken feminist in the 70's, and yet ironically, had deeply etched sexist programming in her.
It was THAT she was fighting against, her internal demon was just being projected outwards upon the world.

But at the same time, I think that is all we ever do- if something catches our eye, or stirs our emotional buttons, it is because it reflects
something we have going on inside us. The exterior world allows us to role play and put them outside where we can wrestle with them, choose a side to
identify with (rather than have a flurry of opposing thoughts and emotions inside us).
Active living is an unending process of catharsis.

Why do I come to threads on this topic if I have found a nice balance in my life between masculine and feminine, and feel like my place is loved,
appreciated, and constructive as much as the men in my life?

Because I still have that mother inside, I still wish I could shine the light upon her femininity and heal that faulty programming she rages against
unhappily.
I will never be able to, but for a few seconds, as she incarnates in a stranger, I can try, and even that feels good.

I'm going to be brutally honest about myself. I haven't been in a relationship in a long time. These women are just women that I've observed around
me. For example, wives of friends, my mother, my uncle's wife, etcetera. I observe an overt deviousness in women way more often than I do in men.
With men, it's almost like a clumsy, thoughtless, "did I do that" type of deviousness. And I just want to note that I feel that I have to be very
careful not to make these statements sound like personal attacks. The high intelligence can be something good as well as something bad. And I also
agree with someone who mentioned that years of being discriminated against may have brought out this personality trait in women.

I will tell you something I perceive in the men in my life.

They have a lot of trouble being aware of what is happening inside them. Their internal world is just as complex, with just as many simultaneous
opposing emotions, desires, and intents as women have... yet they simply prefer to keep a large part of those in the darkness to avoid the complexity
of choosing action within all that, and the discomfort of ambivalence.

They can be passive aggressive then- and not in the way many people hear that term- as if you know you know you are pissed off and pretend to
be otherwise, devising a sneaky way to do something hurtful to the person you're mad at.
They are more often in complete denial that they are pissed or feeling resentful, but in very practical terms, they will do the same sort of
backhanded act as the "sneaky" one.... except that they simply have no idea WHY they did it.

This is where behaviorism becomes interesting. Looking at the actions people do, the results they get repeatedly, and simply concluding that the
original intent was to get that result. Whether it is "oops, I didn't mean to do that" (sincerely) or "haha, that worked exactly as I planned".
There is no real difference in the objective world. Only one person gets to believe themselves innocent and good (albeit a bit clumsy) and the other
gets to be aware of their skills in strategy and emotional manipulation.

Doesn't mean either is missing the other part, only that they are desiring to see only one side of their own being, and pretend someone else is the
other.

I will tell you that when my man, or even one of my sons, is struggling with some internal conflicts, with ambivalence, I sometimes CHOOSE
(consciously) to help him out by becoming possessed of one side for him. The side that is not the one he wants to identify with. This frees him to
take action.

He wants to do something, but is scared also? I will be scared for him, and he can try to calm my fear, or make me feel safer, and also suddenly feel
lack of fear in himself and go forward.
He feels angry at someone but also wants to collaborate with that person on a project, feeling stuck in between those feelings?
I will become angry at the person, and he will defend them, try to convince me of their ultimate goo dnature and misunderstandings, and suddenly feel
relieved of that blockage to their cooperation.

This is something that happens in relationships a lot.

Life is just a stage, we are only players. Hopefully, at the end of the day, you can remember to take off the costumes and see each other as whole
again- a big mix of masculine and feminine, positive and negative, light and dark.

I'm sort of scared to respond, because I can already feel the vultures descending. But I do agree with you. I think that men are definitely as evil
as women, but in a more subconscious way. I think that women have what Jung called the shadow more in the foreground of their mind. I think that men
also have this shadow, but I think that they definitely are not aware of it and utilizing it the way they should. And I think that when you're not
aware of something, it can wreak havoc in your life, and society as a whole.

I'm sort of scared to respond, because I can already feel the vultures descending. But I do agree with you. I think that men are definitely as evil
as women, but in a more subconscious way. I think that women have what Jung called the shadow more in the foreground of their mind. I think that men
also have this shadow, but I think that they definitely are not aware of it and utilizing it the way they should. And I think that when you're not
aware of something, it can wreak havoc in your life, and society as a whole.

I think that throwing out the concept of "evil" is the first thing you should do.
There lies the key to compassion.
But that is just my opinion.

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