Imagining the future of Albany’s waterfront without 787

It’s no secret that if Mayor Jerry Jennings had his way, Interstate 787 — the soaring belt of concrete and steel that largely severs Albany from the Hudson River — would be buried Big Dig-style, never again to block the view of the waterway so central to Albany’s 400-year history.

And despite the fact that there are no immediate plans — let alone money — to raze the oft-cursed highway, city officials are still urging residents to think big when it comes to the future of Albany’s waterfront.

“We know they’re not going to tear it down overnight, or maybe even in the next 30 years, but we have to think about a longer-term vision,” Nancy Templeton, a consultant with the firm WRT, which is working with the city on the project, told the crowd of about 50.

Do you think it’s practical to assume that the city can one day raze the interstate? Or should residents focus on ways to work around?

Jordan Carleo-Evangelist

26 Responses

Even if you raze I-787, you’re still stuck with the ramps to get up to Dunn Memorial Bridge, which has to be high to clear the tall ships that come up the river. In 1960s, before the high bridge was built, the crossing between Albany and Rensselear was chronically congested due to the bridge being opened for ships.

Also, there is a railroad track that services the Port of Albany. These railroad tracks are a major source of grain and petroleum for the east coast, and are transferred on to ships. Those railroad tracks carry hazardous materials and can not safely be enclosed in a tunnel, especially not in an urban environment.

You can demolish 787, but your still stuck with Dunn Memorial Bridge and the Railroad tracks. So it’s a wasted effort. Not to mention the severe traffic headaches that would overtake downtown Albany, and the air pollution.

I787 between exit 23 of the Thruway and the Empire state plaza should stay exactly as it is, it provides access from the Thruway to the Capital, the Rensselaer rail station, and the Port. I787 between I90 and the Empire State Plaza should be demolished immediately. Any Traffic that used to use this road can be diverted to a new (4) lane parkway that connects exit 6 of I90 to the Empire State Plaza arterial on the west end at Jay street. The new parkway could come straight along Henry Johnson Blvd into the southern end of Washington park where it takes an east turn down Jay street. I know what your going to say, what about The people? Well, they get first rights to waterfront property in the newly constructed mixed use development along the Hudson river. This is a no brainer! Plus you get the added benefit of parkway access to the core of the city, where as it stands now, you have to drive down Central or Western to get to the core of the city, it takes forever.
Another idea, add an interchange to the NYS Thruway at Route 85. Albany has two exits off the Thruway whereas Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse all have +5.

I think I read somewhere that 787 was supposed to be on the other side of the river originally. I would imagine that Albany would have lost some kind of funding if they did that but even today there are empty spaces on that side. Why not build the new one over there and then take down the current one?

#3: Wrong idea! Wrong, wrong, wrong. You may know what “your” (spelling?) going to say, but you do not know what I’m going to say, which is that your idea is a perfect example of proposing a cure worse than the disease. Really, it’s a disastrous, expensive waste of concrete destroying a grand old neighborhood with buildings that have been registered as historical landmarks. It seriously has to rate right up there with Robert Moses’ proposal in the 1960s to run the West Side highway to I-95 right through Greenwich Village in Manhattan. Exact same tone-deaf thinking.

At my age, it is unlikely that I will live another 30 years to see if there’s anything other than a crackpot idea implemented to take out 787 and open up Albany’s waterfront to actual human beings on foot. Even if I did survive, I will have long left this place. My take–Albany blew it and they will never be able to make it right unless someone discovers gold buried underneath the South End. And this absolute continued reliance on individuals in gasoline-powered automobiles on into infinity and building everything to cater to that obsolete, unhealthy lifestyle will doom modern society. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but it’s just the simple unvarnished truth. One can only hope that a new, enlightened generation of leaders can take over before it is too late.

Even if there was some way to change I-787/Albany to open up the Hudson River front there’s only 3.5 miles of available frontage on a narrow river with nothing worth looking at on the other side of the river. The people who presently use the Hudson River use it north or south of this 3.5 mile stretch or on the Rensselaer County side of the river.

What Albany, New York Should Do: Just stick with allowing private developers to build high-rise condominiums like this in-near-around the moribund Albany downtown area:

This brings in thousands of new property tax paying residents to Albany who also spend their discretionary income in-near-around downtown Albany businesses. And that discretionary income spending in downtown Albany businesses gets taxed again in the form of sales taxes.

“… this absolute continued reliance on individuals in gasoline-powered automobiles on into infinity and building everything to cater to that obsolete, unhealthy lifestyle will doom modern society. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but it’s just the simple unvarnished truth. One can only hope that a new, enlightened generation of leaders can take over before it is too late.” Mickey

Bravo, Mickey!

Build high-rise condominiums in Albany and the residents of those condos walk to and from work. And spend their money in the businesses between home and work. No longer driving cars to the far away suburbs twice a day. It’s the solution that many, many, many, many cities across the United States have found and in addition they’re all making MONEY from the nex tax revenues!

What a joke. They had a plan for the second phase buildout of the corning preserve 10 years ago. Clough made a bundle on that one. Every few years Gerry digs this out to give some lucrative Planning contract out to dream sculpt and end up with nothing but an obsolete “Plan” on the shelf. We got 1 bridge to nowhere, 1 Bargesterunt in 10 years and a concrete armpittheater.

etc., I have pooh-poohed your mantra of high-rise condos when you posted that suggestion on other blogs in earlier times, but I must admit that it may have some currency. The billion-dollar question is what can the City of Albany DO to lure well-off, young and middle-aged professionals with discretionary income to these high-rise condos if built?

Isn’t it ironic….there is plenty of money for an Albany Convention Center Authority, in the tune of millions of dollars to buy land and to have studies made, but yet, there is no money in the forseeable future for the razing of I 787? Amazing to me that whoever wants what they want, get what they want, right?
NO one wants I-787 from the I-90 exchange to South Pearl Street. Wouldn’t one think that someone, somewhere in our lovely legislature would push for some kind of funds to get rid of the ugly highway?

Albany needs to *think big* when it comes to these things. Our goal shouldn’t be to simply “get ourselves out of a slump”. It should ultimately be to compete with cities like Boston, Quebec City, Columbus, Raleigh, etc. Proper infrastructure is how we get there. The fact that we don’t already compete with those cities is in itself an embarrassment.

Stuff 787 partially underground. Build a light rail system parallel to 87N travelling as far as Lake George. Give huge tax breaks to businesses that want to develop downtown. While we’re at it, let’s have a tram circling Lark to Pearl going around the plaza.

Let me start by saying that I’m no engineer and that my spelling is horrible. With that being said, I have imagined this project happening for years.
I see the entrance/exit to 787 at Hoffman park being the same but dropping at a steeper slope into a tunnel. I see the “mouse holes” of the Empire state plaza dropping down to tie into a tunnel system that replaces the Dunn Memorial bridge and merges with north/south bound traffic that runs parallel to the river.
I-90 and the Patroon Island bridge would exist as is but would also tie into the tunnel system in a similar pattern that it does now.
Call me crazy but this is doable.

Hey let’s start small…maybe an Icecream store on the water front…or a lovely outdoor restaurant…or ANYTHING that would attract at least a few people besides a drunk fest free concert every thursday nite…come on people use you brains…you’ve been to other small and large cities to see what works and what doesn’t…for Christ sake a few primitive architects and Kings built Paris!!! Do we really need plans and bureaus and waste? we have more zoning laws in this country and we have a countryside completely filled with CRAP!!For the love of God can someone just get on a plane to Paris or Berlin or smaller ciities like Galway Ireland to figure out how they do it??? These are cities that were detroyed by WAR and crawled back to vibrant, functioning places??? Can we not even get a Mr. Ding a Ling truck at the Corning Preserve???WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You don’t need to bury roads and contruct high rises to build livable cities!!! For the love of God go the bookstore, pick up The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs and follow the instructions!!!

Let us, in this day and age of lack of money, concentrate the resources made available to us on other projects. Like constructing an extra lane on 87 between Exit 7 and the Twins to end the nightly parking lot that is a merge of high volume traffic onto an already clogged artery.

The billions it would cost to hide 787 isn’t worth it. You can look at the Big Dig in Boston all you want, but a massive project like that isn’t worth it in this economy.

#17: You still don’t get it. Your extra lane would do absolutely nothing and would result in continued and MORE gridlock! The I-66/I-495 corridor surrounding the Washington, DC area has EIGHT lanes (in a few spots, TEN!) and it still takes an hour or more to go 20 miles. Those of you who insist on perpetuating the 1950s everyone in an automobile fantasy will reap more frustration, misery and visual ugliness. #15 has a fresh, small-scale beginning approach and I like it.

“etc., I have pooh-poohed your mantra of high-rise condos when you posted that suggestion on other blogs in earlier times, but I must admit that it may have some currency. The billion-dollar question is what can the City of Albany DO to lure well-off, young and middle-aged professionals with discretionary income to these high-rise condos if built?” Mickey

Mickey – That’s an excellent question. All Albany has to do is what 90% of all American cities do – allow private developers to build and sell high-rise condominiums. There are THOUSANDS of home owners in the Albany-Schenectady-Troy suburbs who left these cities decades ago to raise families in the suburbs. The kids are raised and gone so these people are stuck with high maintenance houses that they don’t need.

Travel to a suburb of most American cities and you’re hard pressed to find anyone over the age of 60-65. They have all sold their homes and moved downtown to a high-rise condo, a mid-rise condo, a townhouse, or even a loft. The suburbs around here are FULL of people over the age of 65. These days age 60-65 is still pretty young.

Insofar as the young and middle-aged: They buy high-rise condos in cities all across the United States, the same thing would happen here.

I like how you use the word “currency”. Bring high-rise condominiums to Albany and the city makes literally millions in new property taxes and sales taxes. That’s why cities all across the United States have them – because they make cities MONEY!

Thanks for asking! I’m glad there’s at least someone around here that sees what has succeeded in 90% of America’s cities could succeed around here.

Maybe the market would not support high-rises, but getting some residents back into Albany is a big part of revitalization. Maybe the City should pick a few blocks for an experiment, and zone them for mid-rise residential with first floor retail, and see what happens.

“Maybe the market would not support high-rises, but getting some residents back into Albany is a big part of revitalization. Maybe the City should pick a few blocks for an experiment, and zone them for mid-rise residential with first floor retail, and see what happens.” Z. Fechten

Based on what I’ve seen in other cities, I don’t think that would work that well.

Cities are like malls. All malls need large anchor stores like JCPenne, Sears, etc. Albany needs at least two large high-rise condominiums to bring in a lot of new residents. Then more residents will move to Albany to buy up a lot of the remaining property. I’ve seen this happen in Saint Louis, MO.

Back to the original idea of moving I-787: It would cost way too much money. Whereas allowing private developers to build high-rise condos actually makes money for the city of Albany.

It will never happen as long as the Capital District hangs on to its ‘me&mine’ mentality rather than an ‘ours’ idealism. Who are we to compare ourselves to Boston or other larger urban areas that have populations several times what we have? We can’t even support MINOR LEAGUE sports teams on a regional basis because those in Sch’tdy won’t travel to Albany or Glens Falls and vice-versa!

It will never happen as long as the leaders of our cities are beholden to an ages old hierarchy of ‘good ole boy’ politic$….as mentioned, $tudie$ and commi$$ion$ abound but no results…a convention center? really? No offense, but as a lifelong resident and one born here, who would want to come to Albany and why? for the riverfront?

This REGION needs a formidable transportation plan (and blueprint for total urban growth including services for our low income populations, our youth and seniors, a promotion of our rich cultural and historical heritage and tourism) that provides a future of mass transit options, sufficient parking for our daytime work centers (got your resident permit yet ?!?!) and rethought traffic patterns and roadways that keep traffic moving while at the same time encourage reduction of travel via personal vehicles. The roundabouts popping up are seen by many as a pain to negotiate and confusing……Maybe, MAYBE, if the local authorities spent as much time and $$ on public awareness and education as they do on self-aggrandizing media events and tanning salons they (the roundabouts, not the politicians!) would be recognized as accomplishing exactly what they’re meant to.

I make my living off the automotive centered society we’ve created over the last century but I’m smart enough to see that the current system cannot and will not last.

“It will never happen as long as the Capital District hangs on to its ‘me&mine’ mentality rather than an ‘ours’ idealism.” Doc

I kind of disagree with that, Doc.

If Schenectady starts getting high-rise condominiums they’ll likely fill up fast. Then people in Albany & Troy will think “Oh, no. We should have thought of that but it’s probably too late now.” Which is to say, which ever city gets high-rise condominiums around here wins – BIG TIME!

“…a convention center? really? No offense, but as a lifelong resident and one born here, who would want to come to Albany and why? for the riverfront?” Doc

Dougie – One proposal is to drop 787 underground, which means people would get to the TU center the same way as they do now. Another proposal would be to remove 787 entirely between Dunn bridge and I-90. The portion of traffic that would go over 787 would then go over I-90, 9, and downtown roads (which is the part I guess you think is less ideal) or potentially via Rensselaer (also not great). Removing all of 787 is likely to make little sense because of downtown access, harbor, and Dunn bridge.
That said, with better (local) train access and / or shuttle buses the need to drive right next to the TU center could be reduced. The problem is that nobody wants to set a few more minutes aside or go a few more steps. That is how 787 came to be and Albany lost its railroad station.