I'd say if it can happen to John Long, it can happen to anyone. Figure 8 > Bowline Wishing him a speedy recovery.

The speed of information seems proportionate to its lightness of facts!

At least, in this present case, I've searched (the Taco, mainly) for some statement from this surviving, well-initiated rockclimber, as to what exactly occurred. There was a cryptic statement put forward allegedly on his behalf that the accident resulted "from an unfinished knot" --that inexact wording is feritle for speculation, but for knowledge, not so much.

*kN*

As I posted @ST:

In reply to:

In reply to:

**I guess** "unfinished" could mean 2 things:

But, for crying out loud, WHY ARE WE GUESSING?!

The conveyance of "information" via the Net is so damn fast when unweighted by care in checking facts ... .

Already, there is another "bowline came untied" article fueling lines of R&I, no doubt building some preponderance of evidence after the fatal UK case, about which RGold & I tried to point out that certain key bits of information --i.p., whether in fact any actual >>knot<< was tied-- were unknown.

HERE, we have connection to the (thankfully, surviving) user; how about actual-factual details, vs. the usual this-appears-to-support-my-agenda spewing?

Could just have easily been an unfinished figure eight - it has nothing whatsoever to do with having been a bowline.

Possibly more likely to have been. Both times I've encountered unfinished knots IRL, they were figure-8's.

What dictates an unfinished figure 8 knot? I assume it is more than just forgetting what we typically refer to as the "Finishing Knot" or ""Stopper Knot" or a "Yosemite Finish"?

Is a knot considered unfinished only when both loops of the figure 8 are not done or only if the second loop is not completed? Will a figure 8 support a load in some cases if just one of the figure 8 loops is completed?

I am just curious as to what stage of tying the figure 8 people were at when they failed to complete it? Is it just that they never even began the figure 8 or that they completed only a portion of it?

Could just have easily been an unfinished figure eight - it has nothing whatsoever to do with having been a bowline.

Possibly more likely to have been. Both times I've encountered unfinished knots IRL, they were figure-8's.

What dictates and unfinished figure 8 knot? I assume it is more than just forgetting what we typically refer to as the "Finishing Knot" or ""Stopper Knot" or a "Yosemite Finish"?

Is a knot considered unfinished only when both loops of the figure 8 are not done or only if the second loop is not completed? Will a figure 8 support a load in some cases if just one of the figure 8 loops is completed?

I am just curious as to what stage of tying the figure 8 people were at when they failed to complete it? Is it just that they never even began the figure 8 or that they completed only a portion of it?

In both case the rope was simply threaded thru the tie-in points and the figure-8 never retraced. I think this is the most common error that is likely to result in injury/death. I doubt many people stop halfway thru the retracing process (I'm sure it's not unheard of though) and a missing backup or finish is not likely to result in knot failure with the figure-8.

I suspect most experienced climbers use figure eights unless they climb steep lines or roofs. Using a figure eight in those circumstances can surely be done, but is a lousy use of one's time and energy. So I would suspect most experienced climber screwups with knots would be with figure eights, not bowlines.

Also, not all bowlines are remotely equal - some are more prone to screwing up or not finishing than others. My double bowline with a Czech finish is all but immune to both as it's either it's initially tied or it's just a straight piece of rope through your tie-in points and the fact I go through the tie-in points twice on the way to finishing it adds a kind of built in check of sorts when tying it.

Pretty much the only way to screw it up would be to get slightly more than halfway through with it so it was stable enough to not be a straight piece of rope, then get interrupted to some other task or good-looking distraction, and never return to completing it. Could happen I suppose, but after this many years of lead roped-soling I'm pretty relentless in the self-checking my tie-in.

Figure 8 is all I have ever used a knot that is eiser [sic] to untie dose [sic] not seem like a good quality .

You're misunderstanding the "easier to untie" aspect of the bowline. Specifically, you're neglecting the key clarifying phrase "[easier to untie]...after being weighted in a fall." Both are equally easy to untie if they have not been weighted.