The deck looks awesome. Where's Tainted Pact, though? You could easily swap in snow covered lands, the red and green Legendary Kamigawa lands, and then find one more black land and you're set. Although it might not be better than Cruel Tutor, it'd give it a run for the slot. When you have to have a specific card, it's not as good, but most of the time, you Pact for Removal or Card Advantage.

Oversold Cemetary looks like it'd be awesome in there, letting you recur something like a Spitebellows or Tusker every turn, in addition to being great with all of the utility creatures you're packing.

I always want to run Skeletal Scrying, but never quite fit it in. It might be worth a look, though, especially with Loxodon Warhammer and Sword of Light and Shadow. Speaking of Equipment that gains life and kills stuff...where Jitte?

Finally, 34 lands seems light, even with the Elves and Birds. Chris, Max and I (Volt and Frogboy) all run more like 40 and a set of 7 Talismen/Signets/Fellwar Stones, and some number of Ravnica Bounce Lands. Your list is three colors, not five, and your curve is a little bit lower, but I think the first thing I'd do if I picked it up is add about four lands.

Overall, looks awesome.

Bryant Cook

07-03-2009, 07:00 AM

The deck looks awesome. Where's Tainted Pact, though? You could easily swap in snow covered lands, the red and green Legendary Kamigawa lands, and then find one more black land and you're set. Although it might not be better than Cruel Tutor, it'd give it a run for the slot. When you have to have a specific card, it's not as good, but most of the time, you Pact for Removal or Card Advantage. I don't run tainted pact because there's cards I don't want getting removed from the game. Squee, Genesis, Anger, Brawn, and Utility creatures.

Oversold Cemetary looks like it'd be awesome in there, letting you recur something like a Spitebellows or Tusker every turn, in addition to being great with all of the utility creatures you're packing. This is something I haven't thought of, I'll definitely try it out.

I always want to run Skeletal Scrying, but never quite fit it in. It might be worth a look, though, especially with Loxodon Warhammer and Sword of Light and Shadow. Speaking of Equipment that gains life and kills stuff...where Jitte? I tried Scrying in the first list, the problem is I never want to remove anything but lands and maybe a few spells from the game. That and I rarely cast it mid-late game. As for Jitte, its the next card on the list to add, I just put the two swords above it in terms of usefulness. Fire/Ice gives the additional +2/+2 already, kills stuff also and draws cards as opposed to gaining life. Really its a matter of drawing cards vs. Gaining life. Although, the swords have to connect it shouldn't be too much of a problem with Brawn and Skarrg, the ragepits. Then Light/Shadow gives the additional +2/+2, returning a dude is always huge and life. Then lastly, being able to give my General protection is always nice.

Finally, 34 lands seems light, even with the Elves and Birds. Chris, Max and I (Volt and Frogboy) all run more like 40 and a set of 7 Talismen/Signets/Fellwar Stones, and some number of Ravnica Bounce Lands. Your list is three colors, not five, and your curve is a little bit lower, but I think the first thing I'd do if I picked it up is add about four lands.

Overall, looks awesome.

I generally don't have mana problems. I do run 42 mana sources total in my eyes, counting the land search. The list is already extremely tight, I'm unsure of what I'd want to cut, especially for additional land.

Now I need to find room for Jitte and Oversold Cemetery. Any ideas?

EDIT: I could probably cut Lavalance since it's generally unimpressive. But what else?

Shabbaman

07-03-2009, 10:01 AM

I would run Promise of Power over Harmonize. PoP is so good that it's filthy. And I'd also play Yavimaya elder over Elves of deep shadow.

First off, I added in the new Dual lands from M10. Why not? More likely to have the colors I need. I had to cut the Saga manlands for these, I hate how they come into play tapped and only tap for their color. I'm a bit of a hypocrite here, I added two of the Ravnica Block Karoo lands over City of Brass and Dust Bowl. I saw someone else with Karoos and Garruk and it made me drop my jaw," I must have it". Another addition of M10 was Acidic Slime - This guy is bonkers. Being able to blow up Tolarian Academy with Survival is a huge benefit. Not to mention he has Deathtouch, so he can double as removal. I cut Ancient Grudge for this, unless there's heavy artifacts it's weak.

With removal, I swapped out Bane of the Living for Fleshbag Marauder. Not being able to deal with Untargetable dudes was starting to piss me off. Bane of the Living was rarely used, I figured this would be the best replacement.

Wheel of Fortune over Night's Whisper. 7 cards > 2 cards.

Oversold Cemetery and Umezawa's Jitte found their way in. I got tired of flipping Lavalanche so that was the first card to be cut. Then I lost Barter in Blood, I'll miss it. But I'm figuring being able to recur and tutor for Fleshbag Marauder made it less important.

Less mana dudes, I wanted to increase the land count to 36. I'm really happy with this.

JeroenC

07-15-2009, 06:16 PM

Are there any cards "vital" to the deck working good? I'm thinking of turning Sek'Kuar into this deck, or at least a version of it I can pay. I can't see me getting hands on the planeswalkers, or Survival, let alone Imperial Seal.

Bryant Cook

07-15-2009, 09:59 PM

Are there any cards "vital" to the deck working good? I'm thinking of turning Sek'Kuar into this deck, or at least a version of it I can pay. I can't see me getting hands on the planeswalkers, or Survival, let alone Imperial Seal.

I proxy Imperial Seal (My only proxy). Actually Sarkhan Vol is the weakest of the planeswalkers in this deck, even though hes the most expensive.

Survival is the heart of the deck in my eyes. You always want it, there's ways to find it, but you can win without it.

Lastly, I cut Cruel Tutor for Hullbreach. I can't justify three mana for a top deck tutor that I rarely cast.

Aggro_zombies

07-15-2009, 10:23 PM

What, no Tendrils of Agony?

Have you ever considered running Broodmate Dragon? Eight flying power for six mana is pretty solid. Also, why no Grave Pact? Do you not want to play multiplayer with this that much?

JeroenC

07-16-2009, 04:34 AM

Good to see you're running Hull Breach. It's just awesome. I'll probably check to find a Survival then, possibly some of the planeswalkers. Weird, I thought Vol would've been the most important one, and Chandra weakest.

Bryant Cook

07-16-2009, 07:17 AM

I haven't thought of Grave pact. But my list is really tight right now, in my eyes it's either Chainer's Edict or Indrink Stomphowler.

Unless anyone else sees a slot. I guess it could be Sarkhan Vol, but he's still strong.

Baumeister

07-16-2009, 09:05 AM

Any reason why there is no Sol Ring in this deck?

Bryant Cook

07-16-2009, 01:13 PM

When I built it I decided I would use creature acceleration over artifacts because most of the deck needs colored mana?

Baumeister

07-16-2009, 01:34 PM

That's legitimate. It seemed to me like your lastest version would benefit more from it. Turn one Lightning Greaves is a pretty amazing play. It's just weird to see a deck that wouldn't benefit from Sol Ring.

Bryant Cook

08-09-2009, 11:00 PM

I was trying out Krovokian Horror as a 2nd squee effect. It was win more, I don't recommend it to anyone.

My sacrifice outlet is usually Greater Gargadon. He's one of the cards I survival first for.

JeroenC

08-11-2009, 02:49 PM

I make do with whatever I have in hand- I don't have Survival, nor am I willing to buy one right now, I'd prefer to finish building a second deck first.
But it's definitely the first card I will be buying when I throw money at this deck again.

Bryant Cook

08-11-2009, 02:52 PM

I make do with whatever I have in hand- I don't have Survival, nor am I willing to buy one right now, I'd prefer to finish building a second deck first.
But it's definitely the first card I will be buying when I throw money at this deck again.

I finally manned up, and shelled out for Survival and Squee. God, the deck runs so much better right now. Liliana is the next card to slide into the deck, and after that I might actually have it as I want it.
Also, Dragon Broodmother is probably one of the best sacrifice outlets since ever for Kresh.

Bryant Cook

08-25-2009, 02:56 PM

After making fun of Adam's deck I realized this deck needs skullclamp.

JeroenC

08-25-2009, 06:53 PM

Seriously, I took it out a while ago. Without a way to abuse it (Sek'Kuar was my last general) it's really not as stellar as I'd like it to be. Though of course, Dragon Broodmother and the shitload of other sac outlets I have might make it worthwile. You have gotten me thinking.

JeroenC

09-17-2009, 12:38 PM

God I've started to hate Murderous Redcap. Am I missing any reason to keep him in?

SilverGreen

09-17-2009, 01:23 PM

Sorry if I'm saying some foolery, I'm not used to EDH yet. But what is the purpose of using Kresh as a general in first place? I can't see any sinergy between him and his commanded deck, it simply looks like a vanilla fatty with a big red X tattooed in his forehead. If you want to go suicide Jund, so Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper seems like a more profitable general at taking advantage of your dead guys. Then you could extract maximum benefit from mindless & relentless Jund creatures like Ball Lightning and all its sparkish breeds and cousins and hasted fellows.

Xira Arien could also be an option, she's very cheap, and has a never-useless ability, yet card draw seens far from be a Jundish thing...

xXxBretWeedxXx

09-17-2009, 01:41 PM

Sorry if I'm saying some foolery, I'm not used to EDH yet. But what is the purpose of using Kresh as a general in first place? I can't see any sinergy between him and his commanded deck, it simply looks like a vanilla fatty with a big red X tattooed in his forehead. If you want to go suicide Jund, so Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper seems like a more profitable general at taking advantage of your dead guys. Then you could extract maximum benefit from mindless & relentless Jund creatures like Ball Lightning and all its sparkish breeds and cousins and hasted fellows.

Xira Arien could also be an option, she's very cheap, and has a never-useless ability, yet card draw seens far from be a Jundish thing...

The reason Kresh is awesome is because you don't have to control the creatures. This gives you removal package a healthy bonus, then you swing for the win with Kresh. 3/1 hasty dudes are fine, but aren't as synergistic with what the deck is trying to accomplish.

SilverGreen

09-17-2009, 02:04 PM

The reason Kresh is awesome is because you don't have to control the creatures. This gives you removal package a healthy bonus, then you swing for the win with Kresh. 3/1 hasty dudes are fine, but aren't as synergistic with what the deck is trying to accomplish.But when your opponent kills your Kresh (and he'll do it) it just turns back to 3/3. How do you swing for the win with a recursive Hill Giant? Sek'Kuar at least has the same kind of strength than Broodmate Dragon, Sprouting Thrinax and the penumbra guys have (and these also are creatures that could fit fine in this deck). Oh, and perhaps Lysolda, Rakdos Guildmage and some sacrifice outlets could do a nice job here.

MattH

09-17-2009, 03:25 PM

But when your opponent kills your Kresh (and he'll do it) it just turns back to 3/3. How do you swing for the win with a recursive Hill Giant? Sek'Kuar at least has the same kind of strength than Broodmate Dragon, Sprouting Thrinax and the penumbra guys have (and these also are creatures that could fit fine in this deck). Oh, and perhaps Lysolda, Rakdos Guildmage and some sacrifice outlets could do a nice job here.

His build is pretty different from this one, based more around large guys, but you'll see how mighty Kresh can be.

xXxBretWeedxXx

09-17-2009, 03:49 PM

But when your opponent kills your Kresh (and he'll do it) it just turns back to 3/3. How do you swing for the win with a recursive Hill Giant? Sek'Kuar at least has the same kind of strength than Broodmate Dragon, Sprouting Thrinax and the penumbra guys have (and these also are creatures that could fit fine in this deck). Oh, and perhaps Lysolda, Rakdos Guildmage and some sacrifice outlets could do a nice job here.

Kresh usually isnt the creature on the table who brings the most hate, he'll usually dodge targeted removal. Also Sek'Kuar is the type of general where you need to be swinging to be effective. With resh you can plan your attacks more accordingly, table politics and timing matters a lot in EDH, at least in multi-player. In duels Sek might be better, but Kresh is effected by more people and thus makes him more powerful.

Anusien

09-17-2009, 04:36 PM

Tortured Existence is pretty nutty. I run the creature-based land getters rather than the mana producers (Wood Elf, Farhaven Elf, Yavimaya Granger) and such; I've totally ditched something for a Farhaven Elf and then Skullclamped it.

Kiki-Jiki- I gave him a shot, and he turned out amazing. The token pumps Kresh when it goes, and getting Kiki with it, tot he tune of Woodfall Primus, Bogardan Hellkite, Sundering Titan, etc led to many wins. Also works nicely with Greater Good and Grave Pact.

Kiki-Jiki- I gave him a shot, and he turned out amazing. The token pumps Kresh when it goes, and getting Kiki with it, tot he tune of Woodfall Primus, Bogardan Hellkite, Sundering Titan, etc led to many wins. Also works nicely with Greater Good and Grave Pact.

Miren, the Moaning Well- Again, lost some gas w/M10, but has excellent synergy w/ Sneak Attack, Kiki-Jiki, Grave Pact, and Kresh. One of the best sac outlets.

This is a utility deck, like survival. I'd have to dilute the deck with fat uncastable creatures in order to make almost every suggestion work.

Anusien

11-03-2009, 03:08 PM

Kiki-Jiki is amazing. I have more guys where you have a lot of utility spells, but even so. Just look at all the nutty utility guys you have, and imagine duplicating them over and over again. It's absolutely batty with Puppeteer Clique, too.

Bryant Cook

11-04-2009, 09:23 AM

Kiki-Jiki is amazing. I have more guys where you have a lot of utility spells, but even so. Just look at all the nutty utility guys you have, and imagine duplicating them over and over again. It's absolutely batty with Puppeteer Clique, too.

I'll look into Kiki. Have you ever found RRR too hard on the manabase?

Anusien

11-04-2009, 10:28 AM

For red sources, I have 3 Mountains, red Hideaway, the two red bouncelands, Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, RB Filter, and then all my land search. RRR is a little rough (I think I'm still one source short), but worth it. Kiki-Jiki is one of my primary Tooth and Nail targets though. I definitely added the third Mountain just for Kiki-Jiki and Insurrection.

On a similar vein, I'm pretty sure I'm cutting Dragon Broodmother because it's hard to cast and not worth it.

Wrecked

11-04-2009, 10:55 AM

This is a utility deck, like survival. I'd have to dilute the deck with fat uncastable creatures in order to make almost every suggestion work.

Maybe I'm missing something, but considering you have 40 life, what kind of mileage are you actually getting out of Llanowar Elves, Bloodbraid Elf, Redcap, Vithian and the rest of the small beaters?

I'd almost certainly run the Talismans/Signets over Llanowar Elves/BOP/Aberation

Also, Kagemaro is a Survival-able, Genesis-able Wrath more often than not.

I'd rather have fat creatures, that are also utility.

Bryant Cook

11-11-2009, 09:14 AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but considering you have 40 life, what kind of mileage are you actually getting out of Llanowar Elves, Bloodbraid Elf, Redcap, Vithian and the rest of the small beaters?

I'd almost certainly run the Talismans/Signets over Llanowar Elves/BOP/Aberation

Also, Kagemaro is a Survival-able, Genesis-able Wrath more often than not.

I'd rather have fat creatures, that are also utility.

They help out Kresh? They're better for dropping cards earlier? Don't die to artifact sweepers.

I've thought about Kagemaro but you often won't have enough cards in hand to answer real threats.

Good thing we aren't playing the same deck.

For red sources, I have 3 Mountains, red Hideaway, the two red bouncelands, Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, RB Filter, and then all my land search. RRR is a little rough (I think I'm still one source short), but worth it. Kiki-Jiki is one of my primary Tooth and Nail targets though. I definitely added the third Mountain just for Kiki-Jiki and Insurrection.

On a similar vein, I'm pretty sure I'm cutting Dragon Broodmother because it's hard to cast and not worth it.

You just mentioned two cards I want to add Insurrection and Tooth. But how is Dragon Broodmother harder to cast than insurrection and tooth?

MattH

11-12-2009, 02:47 PM

They help out Kresh? They're better for dropping cards earlier? Don't die to artifact sweepers.
I suggest using the small creatures which fetch land - Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, etc. They accelerate, don't die to artifact sweep, AND don't die to creature-sweep, which is much more common than artifact sweep anyway.

They also let you run stuff like Shard Phoenix without looking very silly. And you should definitely run S.P., he's like Kresh's bestest friend.

You just mentioned two cards I want to add Insurrection and Tooth. But how is Dragon Broodmother harder to cast than insurrection and tooth?
Well, RRR is harder on turn six than RRR on turn eight. So maybe he meant that.

Bryant Cook

11-16-2009, 09:16 AM

I suggest using the small creatures which fetch land - Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, etc. They accelerate, don't die to artifact sweep, AND don't die to creature-sweep, which is much more common than artifact sweep anyway.

They also let you run stuff like Shard Phoenix without looking very silly. And you should definitely run S.P., he's like Kresh's bestest friend.

Well, RRR is harder on turn six than RRR on turn eight. So maybe he meant that.

My list is pretty tight right now. I still need to add Tooth/Insurrection/(maybe) kiki, and Sorin Markov before Shard Phoenix. I know the strength of the card since I play it in Godo, it's solid.

Bryant Cook

11-16-2009, 03:51 PM

Double post.

New list on opening post.

Bryant Cook

11-29-2009, 04:24 PM

Triple post. Yeah, that's right.

I'm looking to revamp the deck. I'd like to add land search, not Talismans and Signets - they just get blown up.

I want to add Kodama's Reach and Explosive Vegetation. I don't know any other good ones, maybe Reap and Sow? Help me out here.

JeroenC

11-29-2009, 05:23 PM

You can drop some of the less good nonbasics(for corresponding basics) and go for Journeyer's Kite. Reap and Sow is good if you have problems with lands like Coffers or Academy Ruins at times. I guess Farseek is pretty decent too. Kiki-Jiki + Wood Elves/Farhaven Elf/Solemn Simulacrum is also pretty good, though it does require more basics, and it's turn five earliest. In the same line, Yavimaya Elder will grant you your land drops, but not accelerate.

Bryant Cook

11-29-2009, 09:06 PM

I updated the opening list, it now includes land search, Kiki, Tooth, and Bloodfire Colossus. Is there anything I'm missing?

JeroenC

11-30-2009, 06:32 AM

I'm missing Duplicant here. Akroma is going to be real shit to you.
I also like Nezumi Graverobber over Withered Wretch.
Rampant Growth feels inferior to Harrow, unless if your meta is full of assholic permission players.
I prefer something like Ambition's Cost over Necropotence if you're not running Eternity Vessel.
After playing for a while, I removed Jitte. Too subpar here imho.
I don't see how you're only running one sweeper. Plague Wind is so awesome with Kresh. And Decree of Pain is awesome.

Bryant Cook

11-30-2009, 09:26 AM

Duplicant is expensive, compared to other 187 creatures. If I really need an answer to Akroma I do have Fleshbag.

Wretch > Graverobber in my experience.

I choose rampant growth so I could have a turn 3 play. Both Harrow and growth only net one land, growth costs one less. Although, Harrow mana fixes more effectively.

No, just no. Necro is insane, it doesn't need support.

I've really only ever needed one sweeper. Not too many aggro decks around here, there's always Bloodfire Colossus, and Pernicious Deed. After that there's Incendiary Command and Jund Charm for small swarms.

Decree of Pain and Insurrection are cards I'd like to add though.

JeroenC

11-30-2009, 12:24 PM

Plague Wind>Decree in Kresh, in my experience. It makes it lethal in one turn, so with Anger or Greaves, it pretty much is a one-card win. I'd suggest trying to swap Jitte for Wind, also.
Your other objections are perfectly viable opinions, of course. I need Duplicant against Akroma because they usually have another creature for Fleshbag.
And I guess I'm just not a great fan of Necropotence, though that might just be my stubbornness.

Edit: and considering the amount of black in your deck, I'm concerned you're going to be fixing your opponent's mana more often than your own with Urborg.

Bryant Cook

11-30-2009, 12:53 PM

Plague Wind>Decree in Kresh, in my experience. It makes it lethal in one turn, so with Anger or Greaves, it pretty much is a one-card win. I'd suggest trying to swap Jitte for Wind, also.
Your other objections are perfectly viable opinions, of course. I need Duplicant against Akroma because they usually have another creature for Fleshbag.
And I guess I'm just not a great fan of Necropotence, though that might just be my stubbornness.

Edit: and considering the amount of black in your deck, I'm concerned you're going to be fixing your opponent's mana more often than your own with Urborg.

Yeah, but I like drawing cards. I guess I could run overwhelming forces, but it doesn't cycle.

Akroma, no one plays it around here. If I do run into it, Genesis, Fleshbag every turn or Jund Charm, Fleshbag.

I run a lot of double black and a few triple black cards, Urborg doesn't seem cutable in my eyes.

JeroenC

11-30-2009, 01:22 PM

Well, I've never played your exact version of the deck, so what I was saying was only going forth on "my" version of the deck, I might be wrong.

Bryant Cook

11-30-2009, 01:33 PM

I keep my mana curve in mind believe it or not. I know it's dumb in a casual format. But I don't want hands full of high cc garbage. You seem to play more than me.

You should post your list. Share ideas.

I'm thinking about Destructive Flow with 18 basics in the deck now, but I may need to up the count and/or add more land search.

I just read Evolution Charm, I want to play this! Searches for a basic (into hand), returns a dude, or gives Kresh flying! I think I may cut Rampant Growth for this, although it doesn't actually accelerate.

JeroenC

11-30-2009, 09:06 PM

I'll try to get the exact list on my MWS tomorrow (been updating irl but not on my laptop) but keep in mind that I can't use proxies so some cards are slower to get. Recently (finally) got me a Volrath's Stronghold, now waiting to earn some money so I can get me a Vampiric Tutor. If I find the time and the ability to exert effort tomorrow, you'll see my list.

First things I thought of while copying it into MWS
Krosan Grip>Vampiric Tutor
Bane of the Living>Sorin Markov

Bryant Cook

12-01-2009, 12:45 PM

/
First things I thought of while copying it into MWS
Krosan Grip>Vampiric Tutor
Bane of the Living>Sorin Markov

I don't agree with this the slightest. Having the possibility to get any card in your deck is much more powerful than grip. You could even get grip.

You are seriously underestimating saying, "Your life is 10, swing".

Illissius

12-01-2009, 12:49 PM

Pretty sure by ">" he meant "gets replaced by" not "is better than".

Bryant Cook

12-01-2009, 12:50 PM

Pretty sure by ">" he meant "gets replaced by" not "is better than".

Ah, well then...thanks for making me feel like an idiot. Jerk.

JeroenC

12-01-2009, 11:35 PM

Yeah. Too lazy to type out full arrows. Any other comments on my list? It tends to get trashed in our multiplayer games, though I've hit an impasse as far as improving it is concerned.

xXxBretWeedxXx

12-02-2009, 11:45 AM

Yeah. Too lazy to type out full arrows. Any other comments on my list? It tends to get trashed in our multiplayer games, though I've hit an impasse as far as improving it is concerned.

His gets trashed in multiplayer too because it's all 1 for 1s that tend to just piss people off.

Bryant Cook

12-02-2009, 11:59 AM

I wouldn't lose with kresh if I wasn't playing against only combo and boardsweeper decks.

Nightmare

12-02-2009, 12:01 PM

Are there other kinds of EDH decks?

Bryant Cook

12-02-2009, 12:07 PM

Yes, fun decks that want to interact.

Kresh, prays on other creature decks. Not combo, not decks with no creatures that destroy the board every turn.

JeroenC

12-11-2009, 11:17 AM

Should we be testing out Minion Reflector? I've stumbled upon a foil one among the collection of a mate that's gonna stop. With all the CIP abilities, doubling up seems cool. Same reason why I've gone back to Kiki-Jiki in the deck.
Only con that I can think of is that it's win-more, but that never seems so bad in EDH. And that I don't really know what I should cut.

Bryant Cook

12-11-2009, 12:50 PM

Should we be testing out Minion Reflector? I've stumbled upon a foil one among the collection of a mate that's gonna stop. With all the CIP abilities, doubling up seems cool. Same reason why I've gone back to Kiki-Jiki in the deck.
Only con that I can think of is that it's win-more, but that never seems so bad in EDH. And that I don't really know what I should cut.

Eh, it seems alright, I wouldn't play it. But I can see why others would. Permanents often don't stay in play too long here.

Kangaxx

12-11-2009, 02:34 PM

Force of Savagery and phyrexian dreadnought both have decent effects in making Kresh a beast. Where's the Berserk?

Zach Tartell

12-11-2009, 02:46 PM

Force of Savagery and phyrexian dreadnought both have decent effects in making Kresh a beast. Where's the Berserk?

The first two are perhaps the worst ideas I've ever heard. The latter would almost be worth it against like... a mono green deck. But against anything that could 2-for-1 you it's trash.

JeroenC

12-12-2009, 08:15 AM

I'm trying to keep my General alive to kill multiple people. For that, I also like it when Lightning Greaves is attached to it. Just sayin'.

And if I want a creature just to boost my Kresh, I'd be dumb. This is pretty much a toolbox deck.

Bryant Cook

12-12-2009, 11:44 AM

I'm trying to keep my General alive to kill multiple people. For that, I also like it when Lightning Greaves is attached to it. Just sayin'.

And if I want a creature just to boost my Kresh, I'd be dumb. This is pretty much a toolbox deck.

I cut Greaves from Kresh to make room for other things. I found that it rarely stayed in play because it's a huge threat or they'd just kill my guy in response. I would rather have cards with effects that hit when they come into play.

Bryant Cook

12-24-2009, 03:17 PM

I played my first game with Kresh today since adding Bloodfire Colussus, Tooth and Nail, and Kiki-Jiki. Toothing for Kiki and Woodfall Primus was just unfair. Getting two HellKite Overlords wasn't too shabby either.

JeroenC

12-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Kiki-Jiki is so awesome. In this deck because of all the dudes that do something, but I think in any deck with red mana, KJ should probably be run. If I find enough interesting artifact/red creatures for him, he's DEFINITELY my next general. Because damn, does he ever get out of hand quickly.

Eatatjoes

12-25-2009, 09:54 AM

Would nature's lore be better then farseek? Both cost the same, and both can fetch dual lands, but natures lore puts it in untapped, and it can grab a forest, if need be.

Bryant Cook

12-25-2009, 10:25 AM

You want to be able to have a turn 3 play, rather than a turn 4 play with Natures Lure.

Eatatjoes

12-27-2009, 05:32 AM

Nature's lore
1G
Sorcery

Search your library for a Forest card, and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library

Farseek
1G
Sorcery

Search your library for a Plains, Island, Swamp, or mountain, and put it into play tapped, then shuffle your library.

Why wouldnt i have a 3rd turn play with natures lore? I will have 4 lands on turn 3

Bryant Cook

12-27-2009, 10:27 AM

Oh, I thought it costed 2G. Whoops, my apologizes.

Either way the card doesn't mana fix as nicely as Farseek. Doesn't grab basics of other colors or badlands.

I'm wondering how important that untapped land is, I honestly don't know. If I stumble upon one in trade I'll try it.

EDIT: Trade?? What was I thinking? It's a 5th edition common.

JeroenC

12-27-2009, 12:05 PM

And it's also in Garruk Versus Liliana, if you were wondering.

Bryant Cook

12-27-2009, 08:46 PM

I've decided the land coming into play untapped will be more useful in the long run than badlands or non-forest basics. Nature's Lore it is.

MattH

12-28-2009, 03:22 PM

It was also in Ice Age, as an uncommon, and with a better picture IMO.

Bryant Cook

02-11-2010, 11:28 PM

What do people think of cutting Lightning Greaves, Warhammer, and possibly the Swords?

JeroenC

02-12-2010, 03:30 AM

Cutting Greaves or Hammer seems bad. Shroud+haste is good on Kresh, trample is too.
Dropping the swords is a possibility, but I'd rather drop Jitte than SoLaS: it works as recursion and protects Kresh from most pinpoint removal that actually works on fatties (once Kresh matters, burn is never enough). I'm not even running Jitte or Clamp atm (found them lackluster).
I noticed you dropped Decree of Pain, why exactly? Sweeping and drawing 8-12 cards won me two games last night. Same for Plague Wind, it's almost an instakill with Kresh in play, usually.

I chose Nezumi Graverobber over Withered Wretch, it just feels so much more like a valid answer, cause it can double up as a threat (and if I need the Robber again, I just sacrifice it to something). In the same vein, Duplicant over Nekrataal and Ambition's Cost over Necropotence. I also don't run Birds anymore- I prefer mana artifacts (Darksteel Ingot and Jund Obelisk).

At the moment, my "sweeper creature" is Reiver Demon, though I'll probably be putting in Bloodfire C too. Terastodon is awesomesauce, too. With anger in the graveyard, it's 18 power suddenly swinging in your opponent's face- and it can double up to kill of their annoying stuff.

Bryant Cook

02-13-2010, 08:35 AM

I don't or have not played any of those sweepers because they cost a bajillion for a little effect. Also, people around here don't play too many aggro decks.

Wretch is more effective at doing it's job, removing the graveyard.

I'm still unsure on the equipment.

MattH

02-15-2010, 12:29 PM

I don't or have not played any of those sweepers because they cost a bajillion for a little effect. Also, people around here don't play too many aggro decks.

Wretch is more effective at doing it's job, removing the graveyard.

I'm still unsure on the equipment.

I still like Bloodfire Colossus (I run a Kresh deck more based on cheating guys into play with Call of the Wild/Summoner's Trap-style effects), but otherwise I agree.

The best sweeper for the deck IMO is Shard Phoenix, although Crater Hellion isn't far behind (I have yet to try Ryusei). Note that 5 and 6 mana is a lot more reasonable.

Bryant Cook

02-15-2010, 04:01 PM

I still like Bloodfire Colossus (I run a Kresh deck more based on cheating guys into play with Call of the Wild/Summoner's Trap-style effects), but otherwise I agree.

The best sweeper for the deck IMO is Shard Phoenix, although Crater Hellion isn't far behind (I have yet to try Ryusei). Note that 5 and 6 mana is a lot more reasonable.

I play Collusus.

But cards like Plague Wind and Decree aren't needed.

Bryant Cook

04-10-2010, 03:49 PM

Momentous Fall 2gg
Instant Rare
As an additional cost to cast Momentous Fall, sacrifice a creature.
You draw cards equal to the sacrificed creature's power, then you gain life equal to the its toughness.

Bryant Cook

05-02-2010, 06:13 PM

Call me crazy but I'm cutting Necroptence for Pelakka Wurm. The deck needs life gain, it's a fatty, and draws a card. I'm getting a boner just thinking about sacrificing him to Momentous Fall.

Kresh + Gargadon + Wurm = +14/+14, +7 Life, +1 card!

Mirrislegend

05-19-2010, 01:08 PM

Sarkhan the Mad seems excellent. All his abilities are relevant to this deck.

Also, I have to espouse Duplicant, simply due to the number of Eldrazi decks I've seen. There's nothing like taking a 15/15 from them and giving one to yourself.

And I question Natural Order. When it's late game and you've already survivaled up Primus and Overlord, what does Natural Order get you?

Also, is the most updated list on the first post?

Bryant Cook

05-19-2010, 01:32 PM

Sarkhan the Mad seems excellent. All his abilities are relevant to this deck.

Also, I have to espouse Duplicant, simply due to the number of Eldrazi decks I've seen. There's nothing like taking a 15/15 from them and giving one to yourself.

And I question Natural Order. When it's late game and you've already survivaled up Primus and Overlord, what does Natural Order get you?

Also, is the most updated list on the first post?

Eh, I'm not impressed with Sarkhan to be honest.

Duplicant seems fine, although, I haven't run into any Eldrazi decks to be honest. If I do... there's always fleshbag.

Pelakka Wurm/Witness.

DownSyndromeKarl

05-19-2010, 01:36 PM

If I do... there's always fleshbag.

That sounds like a euphemism for masturbate.

Mirrislegend

05-22-2010, 10:32 AM

I found a few cards that seem like they should be making an appearance in this deck. What do you think?

I ran Lord in the first lists of the deck. I cut him because I wanted dudes with useful abilities. Butcher would be cool if he didn't cost seven mana, too much for me. It's just an additional gravepact. Elder is fine, but I don't know what you'd cut for it. The other two I just don't see as useful. They don't really do anything.

Bryant Cook

05-28-2010, 12:35 AM

I haven't seen Reprocess before tonight! This card is bonkers in Kresh, I don't know what I'm cutting yet. Probably Jitte.

Believe it or not equipment isn't that great in this deck...

Wargoos

05-28-2010, 10:41 AM

Did you miss Krosan Tusker?

Bryant Cook

05-28-2010, 10:59 AM

Did you miss Krosan Tusker?

He was one of my favorite cards that I transferred over from another casual format (Skittles), however, the fact that the land doesn't go into play makes him not worthwhile for me.

Dilettante

05-28-2010, 11:40 AM

Bryant, I think a Berserk in there is hilarious for you. You convince someone else to get attacked, berserk their creature, and Kresh gets supersized... and they lose their critter.

Bryant Cook

05-28-2010, 01:23 PM

Aha, that's not a bad idea. I'll try it out. I don't know if it'll make the cut though. My list is getting pretty compact.

EDIT: I cut the Hellkite Overlord. He doesn't do anything...I've decided Terastodon is better.

Hunding Gjornersen

05-29-2010, 03:54 PM

Since you already run dual/shock lands, Skyshroud Claim seems to be an upgrade over Explosive Vegetation. Maybe there's room for both somehow? That kind of effect seems really good in this format.

I played with Terastodon for the first time today. He was incredible. Tooth and Nailing with Kresh in play getting Terraston and Bloodfire Colossus was phenomenal.

I also Reprocessed to make Kresh large enough for lethal damage. I'm also tired of Birds of Paradise dying as a mana source. It's going to end up being either Farseek or Skyshroud Claim.

These cards were both great additions.

How do people feel about Mold Shambler vs Indrink Stomphowler?

Dilettante

05-30-2010, 12:11 AM

I'd prefer the Stomphowler unless people are having planeswalkergasms... However, it is an answer earlier in the game to Academy.

Bryant Cook

05-30-2010, 12:17 AM

I'd prefer the Stomphowler unless people are having planeswalkergasms... However, it is an answer earlier in the game to Academy.

Well that's the thing. For one more mana you get to destroy Planeswalkers and Lands...but you sacrifice one power. I'm leaning toward Mold Shambler.

There's also a lot of Academy/Coffers decks in this area.

Updated opening list.

Hunding Gjornersen

05-30-2010, 02:18 PM

Not that I think you're fabricating data, but I wonder about Reprocess. The reason is that I play Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper for a general in a deck with lots and lots of cheap creatures that like dying. Reprocess was really situational and not even all that great when it went off (i.e. sacking 3 or 4 dudes). Since your guys are huger and less abundant than mine, would Greater Good be better?

Bryant Cook

05-30-2010, 02:36 PM

Not that I think you're fabricating data, but I wonder about Reprocess. The reason is that I play Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper for a general in a deck with lots and lots of cheap creatures that like dying. Reprocess was really situational and not even all that great when it went off (i.e. sacking 3 or 4 dudes). Since your guys are huger and less abundant than mine, would Greater Good be better?

Well you have to remember, you can turn those extra lands into cards in hand. I usually sacrifice a few lands, land searchers (Wood Elves, Farhaven Elf, Solemn Simulacrum), and the occasional fatty. It's been really solid for me, I've been averaging 4-5 cards with reprocess. I'm not looking to draw 7-8 cards with it. Think of it as a black Harmonize that makes Kresh better where with Greater Good I'd be forced to lose that card advantage and be forced to discard additonal cards if I wanted to sacrifice land dorks.

Tog

06-08-2010, 05:50 PM

Just a tip on your mana base. I'm not a big fan of the Lair lands. They stunt your development at the cost of fixing your mana. With all the fixers you run, I don't think its inclusion is necessary. If you can find the space, the MVP land in my deck has been Mosswort Bridge. It's really easy to churn out 10 power worth of creatures, especially with Kresh. It nets you a free spell on a land. Things get even better with the Ravnica Karoo lands thrown in to the mix. Once you've activated the Bridge, you can bounce it and begin the cycle anew. Another worthwhile inclusion has been Miren, the Moaning Well. Despite generating colorless mana, it can protect your general from being stolen and put on the bottom of your library. It can also generate a nice life buffer for all the effort you put in to growing Kresh.

Hope this helps!

JeroenC

06-08-2010, 06:10 PM

Actually, the Lair functions as a better Savage Lands after turn 1. (Obviously worse turn 1). And I would never even think of dropping my Savage Lands, so I need to get myself a Lair.

Took me a while to figure that out though, never really read the Lairs after I found them lacking when I first started Magic.

Bryant Cook

06-10-2010, 11:00 AM

The lair land isn't leaving. It allows bojuka bog to work twice.

Anyway, I'm excited for this...

Cultivate 2g
Sorcery Common
Search your library for up to two basic land cards, reveal those cards, and put one onto the battlefield tapped and the other in your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Nature's Lure...Goodbye.

munkie

06-10-2010, 12:44 PM

Sonuvabitch. And I just paid $5 for a foil Kodama's Reach.

Zach Tartell

06-10-2010, 01:25 PM

Sonuvabitch. And I just paid $5 for a foil Kodama's Reach.

You should play both. It's certainly better than growth spasam.

Mirrislegend

06-14-2010, 05:48 PM

How's Darigaaz's Charm been? I feel like there's all sorts of awesome stuff I could fit in that slot, rather than a low power utility card.

Bryant Cook

06-14-2010, 11:12 PM

I like it. Recurring a creature is huge in this format, removal, or additional general damage can be huge. I like to think it adds a little bit of flavor too, after all this is a casual deck.

Anusien

06-16-2010, 10:25 AM

I really like Bloodshot Cyclops in my Kresh deck as a way to off Kresh to kill people. It also makes Lord of Extinction incredibly exciting for offing players. If you want a second way to off players (seems unlikely), try Mage Slayer. For certain, Cyclops is better than Brawn. I had actually had Lord and cut it for the same reason you did, but I added it back because I needed more threats in the deck.

I like Krovikan Horror better than Squee. It's a little more work to keep active, but you can sacrifice stuff to it and kill stuff with it. Plus, you can use it more often.

I found Eldrazi Monument insane. I want to sacrifice stuff anyway, and it makes me Wrath resistant, which I had problems with. Plus, the thing Kresh had trouble doing is dealing with flying Generals. Seems tailor made, honestly.

You don't have Vicious Shadows. This card is insane when you're offing utility guys already. Stalking Vengeance is another version of the card that's also a creature (and has Haste).

I suggest more graveyard removal. I had Leyline of the Void since it requires no mana, and it happens to work really well with Living Death.

JeroenC

06-17-2010, 07:46 AM

I used to run Vicious Shadows but I dropped it. It's so strong it's just no fun anymore (same like removing Kiki-Jiki-Pestermite from my Intet. T&N'ing that only once sort of took the fun out of the game).

Bryant Cook

06-17-2010, 11:53 AM

I really like Bloodshot Cyclops in my Kresh deck as a way to off Kresh to kill people. It also makes Lord of Extinction incredibly exciting for offing players. If you want a second way to off players (seems unlikely), try Mage Slayer. For certain, Cyclops is better than Brawn. I had actually had Lord and cut it for the same reason you did, but I added it back because I needed more threats in the deck.

I like Krovikan Horror better than Squee. It's a little more work to keep active, but you can sacrifice stuff to it and kill stuff with it. Plus, you can use it more often.

I found Eldrazi Monument insane. I want to sacrifice stuff anyway, and it makes me Wrath resistant, which I had problems with. Plus, the thing Kresh had trouble doing is dealing with flying Generals. Seems tailor made, honestly.

You don't have Vicious Shadows. This card is insane when you're offing utility guys already. Stalking Vengeance is another version of the card that's also a creature (and has Haste).

I suggest more graveyard removal. I had Leyline of the Void since it requires no mana, and it happens to work really well with Living Death.

Bloodshot Cyclops - If I'm paying 6 mana for a creature I don't want to have to wait a turn for it's effect. Especially one as weak as Cyclops. It's just fling. I don't think this card is worth it.

Krovikan Horror - This card is the definition of win more. I hated it without squee. But when I had both I always needed more mana to accomplish survivaling twice on each turn. Then I realized, Squee by himself will get the job done, I didn't need to get 8 creatures in my hand by my next turn and waste a full turn just survivalling.

Eldrazi Monument - You must play a creature heavy list to accomplish using this effectively and possibly token generators. As of right now, my list uses niether, therefor I will not be playing it.

Vicious Shadows - I don't know what it is with people and this card. It's really not that good. I've tried it. It's a 7 mana enchantment that doesn't win you the game and puts a target on your head.

More graveyard removal? I don't know what you've been playing against. But it seems like more graveyard based decks. There aren't too many of those in Syracuse. Withered Wretch, Jund Charm, and Bojuka Bog have been getting the job done for me.

xXxBretWeedxXx

06-17-2010, 01:27 PM

There's actually a lot of decks that use the graveyard as a resource in Syracuse. You don't really need a ton of hate for them though, it's a political thing. If you have too much hate you ruin someone's fun. As long as you have enough to keep brokenness in check then it's enough. I don't know how many times I've ruined someone's day with Identity Crisis.

Bryant Cook

06-17-2010, 05:19 PM

There's actually a lot of decks that use the graveyard as a resource in Syracuse. You don't really need a ton of hate for them though, it's a political thing. If you have too much hate you ruin someone's fun. As long as you have enough to keep brokenness in check then it's enough. I don't know how many times I've ruined someone's day with Identity Crisis.

There's a difference between graveyard based and decks that happen to play cards that use the graveyard.

xXxBretWeedxXx

06-18-2010, 08:23 AM

Balthor is graveyard based, Allies is pretty graveyard based, every deck Herbig has ever run has significantly used the graveyard, Sedris is graveyard based.

There's a lot of graveyard shit going on honestly.

Bryant Cook

06-18-2010, 09:57 AM

Balthor is graveyard based, Allies is pretty graveyard based, every deck Herbig has ever run has significantly used the graveyard, Sedris is graveyard based.

There's a lot of graveyard shit going on honestly.

When was the last time Adam played Balthor, 6 months ago?
Allies is a survival deck, so 1.
Herbigs piles, 3.
Sedris? Who plays this.

So you're agreeing with Anusien that I should add Leyline of the Void to my deck to deal with 3 decks in all of Syracuse? Syracuse is a big place, I think I'm fine with my three graveyard removal cards.

xXxBretWeedxXx

06-18-2010, 10:27 AM

Al has a Sedris deck, there are other decks too, Rich's decks live out of the graveyard too. I didn't agree with Anusien if you saw, I don't think you need to run enough to deal with graveyards but enough that people won't rely solely on that. Leyline isn't necessary, just knowing that people are packing multiple graveyard hate cards in their deck is enough to alter someone's gameplan. I'm just disagree with your assessment of the Syracuse meta.

JeroenC

06-18-2010, 10:34 AM

With all due respect, but perhaps you should keep discussing local meta's restricted to PM's.

Zach Tartell

06-18-2010, 12:10 PM

With all due respect, maybe you should learn that apostrophes are not used to show plurality.

Also, who gives a fuck? Is this the deck to beat forum?

On a more relevant note, it was brought to my attention that Terastadon and Thunder Dragon make two pretty sweet Tooth targets.

Does Thunder Dragon fit?

Edit: you're from belgium. Well, I guess you have to learn somehow...

Bryant Cook

06-18-2010, 01:36 PM

On a more relevant note, it was brought to my attention that Terastadon and Thunder Dragon make two pretty sweet Tooth targets.

Does Thunder Dragon fit?

I believe I was the one showing attention.

I don't know what to cut to add it.... Also, is it needed? With Thunder Dragon in the deck there's now two cards that are in the deck for the same exact role - Bloodfire Colussus and Thunder Dragon.

Bryant Cook

06-19-2010, 01:50 PM

I'm going to cut Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Darigaaz's Caldera for Lavaclaw Reaches and Raging Ravine. It's manafixing and a threat, Urborg seems to help my opponents more than me. Caldera just because it's the weakest land.

Bryant Cook

06-22-2010, 12:19 AM

I saw Nezumi Graverobber in action today. I may have misjudged it. I plan on adding it over Withered Wretch.

Zach Tartell

06-22-2010, 04:37 PM

I saw Nezumi Graverobber in action today. I may have misjudged it. I plan on adding it over Withered Wretch.

Different roles. Wretch is good for emptying a bin, Graverobber is only good with an empty bin. (or almost empty)

JeroenC

06-22-2010, 06:23 PM

Yeah, early game, Graverobber isn't the best of defenses. But its multifunctionality shoved it in my deck over the Wretch. Early game flipped Graverobber forces them to start digging for answers, late game it'll take out their yard. And if they kill it early game and you need it late game, we have our fair share of recursion.

Bryant Cook

06-22-2010, 07:07 PM

Different roles. Wretch is good for emptying a bin, Graverobber is only good with an empty bin. (or almost empty)

I got a foil one. It's in. Wretch is a card I hate cascading into or drawing most of the time where Graverobber could potentially return Terrastodon.

Zach Tartell

06-23-2010, 02:57 PM

I got a foil one. It's in. Wretch is a card I hate cascading into or drawing most of the time where Graverobber could potentially return Terrastodon.

You realize that you have to empty a graveyard for him to flip, right? So on turn a hundred when you rip him and you're like, "fuck yeah, graverobber!" Then you cast him, and ask for graveyard counts and get double digit answers. That's not good at all.

Early game he'll flip and be ineffective (since there's shit to steal from graveyards) and late game he'll take forever to flip (and then get removed) or just get removed.

Baumeister

06-28-2010, 08:15 AM

Primeval Titan

4GG

Trample.

Whenever Primeval Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, search your library for two land cards and put them into play tapped.

6/6

From M11. This seems pretty good for this deck.

Bryant Cook

06-28-2010, 09:25 AM

Primeval Titan

4GG

Trample.

Whenever Primeval Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, search your library for two land cards and put them into play tapped.

6/6

From M11. This seems pretty good for this deck.

At 6 mana I'm a litte nervous to play this card. However, if it's just land cards, he could come into play and get the two manlands which would be pretty sweet.

Shabbaman

06-30-2010, 10:27 AM

When was the last time Adam played Balthor, 6 months ago?
Allies is a survival deck, so 1.
Herbigs piles, 3.
Sedris? Who plays this.

So you're agreeing with Anusien that I should add Leyline of the Void to my deck to deal with 3 decks in all of Syracuse? Syracuse is a big place, I think I'm fine with my three graveyard removal cards.

Well, Leyline is also a lot of fun with Helm of Obedience, which isn't a bad card in itself as you can punish people that are tutoring cards to the top of their decks.

Pretty rough and I plan on fixing it up more. I really feel like I need more creatures. Thoughts?

Baumeister

11-05-2010, 07:28 AM

Would this deck benefit from Doubling Season? I know there aren't a lot of targets, but the thought of giant Kresh's and the boost it would give to the Planeswalkers has got me all aquiver. Also, I've been running Wurmcoil Engine, and the prospect of graveyard recursion with that thing and Doubling Season is frightening.

EDIT: Holy crap, the though of Kiki-Jiki + Wurmcoil Engine + Doubling Season just gave me a mind boner!

Bryant Cook

11-27-2010, 05:47 PM

Would this deck benefit from Doubling Season? I know there aren't a lot of targets, but the thought of giant Kresh's and the boost it would give to the Planeswalkers has got me all aquiver. Also, I've been running Wurmcoil Engine, and the prospect of graveyard recursion with that thing and Doubling Season is frightening.

EDIT: Holy crap, the though of Kiki-Jiki + Wurmcoil Engine + Doubling Season just gave me a mind boner!

The problem with doubling season is that like you said there just isnt enough targets. I hardly ever win with Kresh anymore, it's usually from people scooping from being blown out by Tooth targets.

Bryant Cook

01-01-2011, 05:40 PM

I'll be playing one as a backup to "regular" Survival. Obviously inferior, but lategame I usually don't tutor more than once a turn anyway.

I've been foolish not to play her. I'm adding one in over Reprocess as much as I hate to see the card go, it's the weakest card in the deck.

Mimic Vat seems like a strong inclusion. I've seen it with Terastodon imprinted on it.

Downside is the tokens don't hit the yard.
The exiled creature eventually hits the yard to pump Kresh when you replace it with another dead creature.

Upside is you can steal your opponents creatures.

Bryant Cook

03-28-2011, 05:28 PM

My deck uses quite a bit of recursion, it also wins with Terastodon more than Kresh. I don't want to remove him from the game.

I also play in a competitive area where cute tricks often aren't good enough.

Ace/Homebrew

03-28-2011, 09:34 PM

It lets you abuse your plentiful EtB creatures. It's *like* Kiki-Jiki except you can take your opponents creatures too.
It's not as good as it could be because it exiles the tokens EoT. If they hit the yard and pumped Kresh it would be better.

I also play in a competitive area where cute tricks often aren't good enough.

Fair enough

Your list is pretty tight... Do you have anything that's under-performing?

Nidd

03-31-2011, 09:39 PM

How come there's no Greater Good in your list? This card has proven to be the nuts in my Kresh variant.

Bryant Cook

04-02-2011, 03:56 PM

I've thought about it a lot actually and I could see myself adding it. The only problem is that I don't have a whole lot of creatures to gain the card advantage from.

It's something I do plan on trying though.

Arew

05-08-2011, 01:53 PM

Some things of note, Mimic Vat isn't really a cute trick, having that out with Greater Good is amazing. If your playing Greater Good, you should probably be playing Wurmcoil Engine also, as it's just amazing with the lifegain, as I've found myself needing to gain some life to stabilize. I'm trying to find room for Sheoldred, because I could see that getting way out of hand.

Bryant Cook

05-23-2011, 12:33 PM

Mimic Vat IS a cute trick.

I cut the Incendiary Command for Greater Good and I plan on cutting Chandra for Inferno Titan. Wurmcoil Engine is interesting, I'll try it, probably over Mold Shambler.

Arew

05-30-2011, 03:35 PM

After playing a more games, I agree with you, the Mimic Vat is getting cut.

Bryant Cook

06-09-2011, 09:19 AM

New list on the opening post. These are the changes I've made the last month or so, in case you missed it.

God yes, this card is amazing. Do we want the new Chandra? I'm thinking we don't run enough to abuse her with, but I could be wrong.

JeroenC

07-02-2011, 06:36 PM

Testing the Skullbriar dude instead of Kresh for a while with this deck. Don't know when the next time I'll be able to test is though, with a new job, but if I get any relevant testing in I'll let you know. I think it should add +consistency, -explosivity, -coolness factor (Kresh is pretty much the most badass of any general out there).

EDIT: fuck that, with minimal testing I've decided that Kresh is approximately the only general that's that cool. Fuck you, Skullbriar, and your lame promises of consistency.

Amon Amarth

07-25-2011, 05:47 PM

Have you considered Rune-Scarred Demon? I get giddy at the thought of copying him over and over. So much value!

Bryant Cook

07-26-2011, 12:21 AM

Have you considered Rune-Scarred Demon? I get giddy at the thought of copying him over and over. So much value!

Couldn't you just win the game instead? I'm going to update the opening post right now with my M12 list.

xXxBretWeedxXx

07-26-2011, 01:47 PM

Have you been playing Chandra? Is she good or win more? also not going to try to put inferno titan in anymore?

Bryant Cook

07-26-2011, 02:50 PM

Have you been playing Chandra? Is she good or win more? also not going to try to put inferno titan in anymore?

Chandra copying even Kodama's Reach or Explosive Veg. Puts you soo far ahead of anyone else where it's ridiculous to think of not playing her. I decided that Spitebellows is still better than Inferno Titan.

I play fairly similar list, but didnt see Bryant using these:
Avenger of Zendikar I've considered this addition quite a bit, it may be added soon
Ancient Grudge (!) I used to run it, too narrow for this deck. You'd have to cut HullBreach
Pattern of Rebirth (!) It's not bad, could be run over Natural Order (if you can't afford one), but what do you cut? I just don't think it's necessary
Snuff Out For EDH? No.
Garruk Primal Hunter (!) I run this.
Lotus Cobra (!) I'd rather have land acceleration.
Viridian Revel It sucks.

Cards I have found useless 99% of the time:
Flametongue Kavu Nostalgia. Anyone who played before Tarmogoyf has a place in their heart for FTK.
Genesis Wave Card is absolutely ridiculous.

From the new set some changes I'd make:
Skarrg, the Rage Pits -> Kessig Wolf Run (http://i6.aijaa.com/b/00665/8712957.jpg)
Swamp -> Woodland Cemetery (http://i7.aijaa.com/b/00599/8712958.jpg)
I plan on adding both of these.
Possible addition:
Blashphemous Act (http://i6.aijaa.com/b/00226/8712960.jpg)
What? No.

This is playable, but I'm unsure if there's room for it. I want to add Avenger and a few other things too...

Relando

09-19-2011, 03:10 PM

-1 Savage Lands
+1 Command Tower

Amon Amarth

11-03-2011, 08:46 PM

I'm playing Inkmoth Nexus in addition to KWR. In addition to it being really good it also is another out (Commander gets tucked or whatever) to large or infinite life totals. It also makes Primeval Titan a 1 card combo which is really sweet.

Baumeister

11-05-2011, 07:17 PM

What about Bloodgift Demon from Innistrad as another draw engine every turn, similar to Graveborn Muse and Phyrexian Arena?

ninja_attack

11-13-2011, 01:46 AM

No living death or insurrection?

My build plays Stalking Vengeance ans creature sac outlets to attack step/machine gun people to death... Its the greatest feeling when you do that with vicious shadows on the table.

I also play Hermit Druid (with 7 basics) and Lord of Extinction

Hope these suggestions are valuable.

beastman

11-21-2011, 03:43 PM

Hey bryant, could I get an updated list for this? I don't get much time to play anymore, and I'd really like to get a couple good EDH lists to play some kitchen table games the next time I get leave.

Bryant Cook

11-21-2011, 03:52 PM

Opening post. I just updated.

beastman

11-21-2011, 05:44 PM

Oh cool. Thanks.

kingsey

11-25-2011, 01:50 PM

My group doesn't really play with general dmg. Could adun oakenshield be subbed for the general?

Aggro_zombies

11-25-2011, 02:38 PM

My group doesn't really play with general dmg. Could adun oakenshield be subbed for the general?
It seems like not having general damage would make playing either Skithiryx or a deck with infinite life combos more attractive than this one.

kingsey

11-25-2011, 03:39 PM

Yeah, but I wanted to play these colors, plus someone already has a kresh deck.

Was looking at thrax as well but i don't wanna make another blue deck.

Have you tried Vorinclex? He's brutal and sets up some crazy plays when you untap with him.

beastman

04-09-2012, 06:23 PM

What about the Necrotic ooze, triskellion, phyrexian devourer combo? Devourer is the only real garbage card on its own, and survival just turns into an auto win pretty much.

Arew

05-03-2012, 11:59 AM

I'm going to try Griselbrand in here, but half the time when I'm casting Tooth and Nail, I'm dangerously low on life, and have to find Pelakka Wurm or Wurmcoil Engine to stabilize so no one can sneak a kill at me.

I would say that he should replace Pelakka Wurm, but being they gain life two separate ways, and I'm wary to say that he can replace that role in the deck.

yankeedave

08-10-2012, 11:16 AM

At 6 mana I'm a litte nervous to play this card. However, if it's just land cards, he could come into play and get the two manlands which would be pretty sweet.

I know this made the list now, but reading back thru the thread, it's amazing how wrong this was!

Bryant Cook

08-19-2012, 03:13 PM

I know this made the list now, but reading back thru the thread, it's amazing how wrong this was!

It was all speculation, no one knew how ridiculous Primetime would be.

In other news, since Griselbrand was banned, Pelakka Wurm was re-added back in. But now that Thragtusk exists, I want to find a place for him. I'm unsure if it's better or worse than Wurm and if it's really necessary.

Bryant Cook

09-16-2012, 06:52 PM

I'm looking for some input on some thoughts I've been having about updating Kresh.

Pelakka Wurm -> Thragtusk
Momentus Fall - > Disciple of Bolas

These two are definitely happening, but what I'm getting to now is the hard cuts.

I'd like to add:

Dreadbore
Jarad's Order's
Rakdos Charm
Scavenging Ooze

Of the three Rakdos Charm is probably the weakest. But Graveyard hate or Shatter is still pretty good, mostly due to the increased amount of artifacts in most people's decks around here. Rakdos Charm is very similar to Jund Charm which I will not be cutting for personal reasons (Flavor and I like it). Same could be said for Ultimatum.

Has anyone had experience with Ooze in EDH? How is it?

I was considering cutting:

Praetor's Council - I rarely cast or tutor for the thing, plus it's a recursion deck, I want some things in the Graveyard (Anger/Genesis).
Beast Within - This is a questionable but Dreadbore is the same role minus the 3/3.
Gravepact - This thing is clunky.

My current list is on the opening post. Willing to take some suggestions.

Aggro_zombies

09-16-2012, 07:06 PM

Scavenging Ooze will either be good or very mediocre. I like it against green decks, especially ones jamming Praetor's Counsel, but the green mana to activate it definitely makes it much worse in three-color decks.

If you don't feel like you need more graveyard hate, don't run it. It's on the edge in my Damia deck but I like the occasional life from it along with the extra graveyard hate.

Bryant Cook

09-17-2012, 08:20 AM

Slum Reaper 3b
Creature - Horror Uncommon
When Slum Reaper enters the battlefield, each player sacrifices a creature.
It's sent into unguilded districts by the Orzhov to collect the souls of those no one will miss.
Illus. Karl Kopinski #77/274 4/2

Sadly, the replacement for Flametongue Kavu is here... I'll miss you FTK.

kombatkiwi

09-17-2012, 10:10 PM

Slum Reaper 3b
Creature - Horror Uncommon
When Slum Reaper enters the battlefield, each player sacrifices a creature.
It's sent into unguilded districts by the Orzhov to collect the souls of those no one will miss.
Illus. Karl Kopinski #77/274 4/2

Sadly, the replacement for Flametongue Kavu is here... I'll miss you FTK.

Do you really need 2 fleshbag marauders in a deck with survival of the fittest in it

Bryant Cook

09-18-2012, 12:15 PM

Do you really need 2 fleshbag marauders in a deck with survival of the fittest in it

In a multiplayer format this new card will be more effective than Flametongue Kavu.

The only people that are happy are those who couldn't figure out how to deal with a Primeval Titan. I understand that this is a casual format and all...but Prime Time is far from oppressive or hard to deal with.

Offler

09-19-2012, 09:29 AM

I personally did some effort to deal with the Titan+Tchernobyl+Coffers combo.

I believe that it was being played too often but I dislike this kind of solution.

yankeedave

09-28-2012, 09:23 AM

So my replacement for Primetime after the bannings was just to use Kokusho. Completely different purpose in the deck, but with as many sac outlets as this deck runs, it can give you a nice life cushion and when paired with something like Bloodfire Colossus, can be quite sick life total swings.

What have other players replaced Primetime with?

Creator

10-05-2012, 01:45 AM

So my replacement for Primetime after the bannings was just to use Kokusho. Completely different purpose in the deck, but with as many sac outlets as this deck runs, it can give you a nice life cushion and when paired with something like Bloodfire Colossus, can be quite sick life total swings.

What have other players replaced Primetime with?

I replaced mine with Scapeshift but that's only because I needed another way to fetch Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers to set up massive Genesis Waves. If your deck isn't built around a Genesis Wave end game than Urborg + Coffers is unnecessary.

Baumeister

10-10-2012, 08:09 AM

Does Worldspine Wurm have a place in this deck? It's a bit expensive, but I've often found myself wishing I had some fat to search for. It could be good off of Tooth and Nail for Kiki-Jiki and the Wurm.

Also, what happen to Bloodfire Colossus and Sorin Markov? Colossus was generally excellent for me, representing both a repeatable sweeper and win condition with Genesis and Sorin seems directly better than Liliana if not just for the "set a player at 10 life" ability. She is quite slow and expensive for simply searching for a card.

Lastly, Birds of Paradise...? Really? Am I missing something here? I don't think there's any point in the game where I would want to draw that card (in this format). There has to be something better.

yankeedave

10-18-2012, 09:31 AM

I play Bloodfire Colossus, but not Sorin. If I am playing in a more competitive meta, then I would play Sorin, but it doesn't make you friends in a casual meta! In a harsher environment, I would play Sorin's Veangeance too!

Bryant Cook

10-22-2012, 08:44 AM

So my replacement for Primetime after the bannings was just to use Kokusho. Completely different purpose in the deck, but with as many sac outlets as this deck runs, it can give you a nice life cushion and when paired with something like Bloodfire Colossus, can be quite sick life total swings.

What have other players replaced Primetime with?

I've been using Boundless Realms with additional Basics over filter lands. It's been decent, but not exactly what I want it to be. It's also very slow. I want to replace it with something else that searches for lands maybe Ranger's Path?

EDIT: I added the filters back in along with Farseek, it was just too slow for my metagame.

Bryant Cook

12-04-2012, 07:52 PM

I don't know why I only just found about this recently, but we need to add Zealous Conscripts to the deck. It allows for an instant kill with Tooth and Nail paired with Kiki-Jikki.

Baumeister

01-19-2013, 10:19 AM

Could this be a replacement for Primeval Titan?

Sylvan Primordial 5GG

Creature - Avatar

Reach

When Sylvan Primordial enters the battlefield, for each opponent, destroy target noncreature permanent that player controls. For each permanent destroyed this way, search your library for a Forest card and put that card onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library.

6/8

Bryant Cook

01-21-2013, 08:40 AM

Could this be a replacement for Primeval Titan?

Sylvan Primordial 5GG

Creature - Avatar

Reach

When Sylvan Primordial enters the battlefield, for each opponent, destroy target noncreature permanent that player controls. For each permanent destroyed this way, search your library for a Forest card and put that card onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library.

6/8

I like this guy, he should probably find a way in somehow.

Baumeister

01-31-2013, 02:06 PM

Bryant: do you have an updated list with cards from the new sets that have come out?

Bryant Cook

02-03-2013, 11:42 PM

I have updated my list on the opening post. However, I'm going to be doing a complete deck revamp within the next few weeks. It may not even resemble the former Kresh deck.

Baumeister

02-04-2013, 10:00 PM

Nice list - it looks a bit more streamlined. I'm glad the non-Garruk walkers finally got cut. They never did enough for me to warrant a spot. It's amazing how many cards are necessary to make up for Primeval Titan's basic functionality.

Have you considered Signal the Clans? I'm not really sure what piles you would make but it's an instant speed tutor.

Bryant Cook

02-04-2013, 11:10 PM

Nice list - it looks a bit more streamlined. I'm glad the non-Garruk walkers finally got cut. They never did enough for me to warrant a spot. It's amazing how many cards are necessary to make up for Primeval Titan's basic functionality.

Have you considered Signal the Clans? I'm not really sure what piles you would make but it's an instant speed tutor.

I'm in the middle of gutting Kresh, it's changing directions. The list I posted just isn't competitive enough for my local scene, I'm making it mean.

Amon Amarth

02-05-2013, 01:53 AM

I'm in the middle of gutting Kresh, it's changing directions. The list I posted just isn't competitive enough for my local scene, I'm making it mean.

I've got some ideas.

I think Sorin would be good in here because the -3 is gamebreaker and good enough to kill a player that turn.

Beast Within is a good removal spell and the drawback is negligible with so much fat.

I recommend playing some GY recursion spells like Animate Dead, Necromancy or Reanimate. Goes pretty well with how much destruction is going to happen with this list. Stealing other peoples fatties is pretty sweet.

A few more sac outlets might be nice. High Market is easy to fit in. Goblin Bombardment is a favorite of mine, which is also good with...

Insurrection. Maybe not the most competitive but it's another I Win card which is pretty nice in creature-centric play groups.

Oracle of Mul Daya is another good ramp spell.

Also if you're looking for more GY hate it's hard to get better than Scavenging Ooze.

Bryant Cook

02-05-2013, 09:10 PM

I finished the list. I've goldfished ten games, the new list sucks. Looking for new options.

No, I am not sharing.

Baumeister

02-06-2013, 08:25 AM

I finished the list. I've goldfished ten games, the new list sucks. Looking for new options.

No, I am not sharing.

It would help to know what direction you're trying to go in and what options you've already tried. Are you trying to make it faster and bring down the average cmc? Or does it need to have bigger plays that demand answers?

In general, I've found Kresh to be a fair deck that uses the graveyard, hand, and library to generate card advantage. It's basically 99 card Shards standard Jund with all the best black, red, and green cards ever. It's kind of tough to make him extremely competitive in EDH with all of the broken things you can do with other generals.

Creator

02-09-2013, 11:12 PM

I feel your list could be more focused. I look at it and see a Jund good stuff deck. Have you tried a low cmc aggro strategy? Hit them them hard and fast with small dudes and swords then keep them on your level with land disruption. My list would look something like this:

This is how I would enjoy playing it but I have no idea how you would want to play the deck. Figure out what method of winning appeals to you most and just build a deck that focuses on doing that. Try not to get roped in by cards because of their individual power level and make choices based on the role they play in your chosen strategy.