I've not played the game since March, but I've been reading stuff about the changes and all. I'm just wondering what will happen to pure classes if the dual spec happens with dps specced hybrid classes doing the same damage as pure classes?

If you can beat a boss with just a bit more dps and healing is fine, why not just have a hybrid jump out of the instance, quit the raid, and switch specs? No one will need a pure class for raids anymore.

errr I keep reading this and can't seem to get it. Pickled my brain last night..

I played on the PTR a bit, so far I really don't like the next patch. PVP battles are just too short, it seems to mostly be about who can get the first stuns/locks off wins. Wasn't blizzard aware of this issue before and that's why they created resilience? Seems resilience isn't enough anymore. I spec'ed boomkin while wearing my S4 resto gear and two shotted a full S2 warrior with two starfires. This shouldn't be possible IMO.

In the past, Blizzard had the stance that pure classes (rogues & mages) should do more dps because that's all they do. Now, they are saying that an equally geared & skilled shaman specced for dps and an equally geared & skilled rogue should put out the same damage. With that change and if dual specs are allowed in the future, what is the need for the pure classes?

In the past, Blizzard had the stance that pure classes (rogues & mages) should do more dps because that's all they do. Now, they are saying that an equally geared & skilled shaman specced for dps and an equally geared & skilled rogue should put out the same damage. With that change and if dual specs are allowed in the future, what is the need for the pure classes?

No that's not what they are saying. They are saying that the hybrid classes and pure classes will have their dps gap narrowed, but the pure classes will still ultimately win in dps.

This is to prevent say, a guild having 2 moonkins, 2 mages, and 2 warlocks from always only taking one of the moonkins "just for the crit buff" and always leaving the other one out because his DPS isn't even close to that of the mages or the locks.

Since that dps gap is narrowed, there will be more reason to bring along the other boomkin because they won't be losing a lot of DPS by doing so.

This reduces the old problem of raiding guilds that put heavy class restrictions in place: e.g. "we need a few good rogues but we don't want anymore enhancement shamans because we already have one" and getting pissed off because they can't find the class that they want to stack is going to be a thing of the past. Stacking pure classes will still ultimately be best, but unlike in the past, having all hybrids will do. Now you can raid with the people you want to raid with rather than picking somebody else just because they happened to roll a class or only want to play a class that you can't use anymore of.

No that's not what they are saying. They are saying that the hybrid classes and pure classes will have their dps gap narrowed, but the pure classes will still ultimately win in dps.

They may not be saying that, but the fact of the matter is, right now, in live, if an equally geared mage,boomkin, and warlock roll into naxx, all using same buffs, the boomkin will provide the highest dps, at a level of gear that most casual players will reach.
At higher gear levels, such as naxx 25 man, mages and locks begin to pull ahead, with 5200dps/5100dps respectively, as compared to the boomkin, rounding out about 4500....but that is due to the scaling of haste,crit,and spell power to the pure dps classes that the mage and warlock are.

If blizz wants to keep everyone happy by making hybrid classes just as good as the classes they are meant to fill the role of, then what is a mage for?
(i was in naxx last night, as a Frostfiremage, rolling nearly 3k dps, and was still #2 on charts, behind a boomkin at nearly 4k><)

/sigh....
Suppose its back to being just a vending machine to show up outside raids for a table....

They may not be saying that, but the fact of the matter is, right now, in live, if an equally geared mage,boomkin, and warlock roll into naxx, all using same buffs, the boomkin will provide the highest dps, at a level of gear that most casual players will reach.

I've already cleared most of naxx 10, and I haven't found this to be true. From what I've seen, the hunters, mages, rogues, and warlocks do the most DPS, in that order (hunters being the best.) I've been doing this in a pug group where we've regularly swapped people out, so I've seen what many classes are capable of, with a wide variety of people playing these classes.

The only way a boomkin should be doing more DPS than you is on AOE intensive fights. Right now boomkin is king of AOE from what I have seen.

I've already cleared most of naxx 10, and I haven't found this to be true. From what I've seen, the hunters, mages, rogues, and warlocks do the most DPS, in that order (hunters being the best.) I've been doing this in a pug group where we've regularly swapped people out, so I've seen what many classes are capable of, with a wide variety of people playing these classes.

The only way a boomkin should be doing more DPS than you is on AOE intensive fights. Right now boomkin is king of AOE from what I have seen.

Warlocks are on the bottom of the heap from what I've seen raiding since 3.0. Makes me a sad panda considering I've put 4 years into mine and now every spec sucks and isn't fun.

Warlocks are on the bottom of the heap from what I've seen raiding since 3.0. Makes me a sad panda considering I've put 4 years into mine and now every spec sucks and isn't fun.

Don't worry I'm sure they will make some lock changes soon. The thing that bugs me are the lackluster 51 point talents. I'm currently playing a 51 demo spec witht he rest in affliction and metamorphosis just doesn't seem up to snuff at all.

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Don't worry I'm sure they will make some lock changes soon. The thing that bugs me are the lackluster 51 point talents. I'm currently playing a 51 demo spec witht he rest in affliction and metamorphosis just doesn't seem up to snuff at all.

Yeah... moonkin; 15000 armor all the time, meta; 13000 armor for 30 seconds once every 3 minutes?

Why does moonkin get plate all the time and a dps increasing spec, but on a lock with a dps lowering spec, its only 18% up time? How is the lock overpowered but the moonkin isn't?

I've been leveling a DK until they do something about locks, its just not enjoyable to play one at the moment.

Yeah... moonkin; 15000 armor all the time, meta; 13000 armor for 30 seconds once every 3 minutes?

Why does moonkin get plate all the time and a dps increasing spec, but on a lock with a dps lowering spec, its only 18% up time? How is the lock overpowered but the moonkin isn't?

I've been leveling a DK until they do something about locks, its just not enjoyable to play one at the moment.

locks HAVE been OP for a good part of the game's history is different aspects. They might be a bit behind now, from what I have heard they catch back up when the gear starts to get there. They started behind in BC, then started killing the charts... where Moonkins won't scale as well doing down the stretch.

Also realize you have a soul shatter to lower your agro... a Moonkin has to sit there and take it, hence the armor.