FTA:"...the real thoughtlessness came from a police commissioner who lazily passed a falsehood to a journalist, and a media that fell so deeply in love with a story that it couldn't be bothered to determine whether it was true."

DrPainMD:FTA: "...the real thoughtlessness came from a police commissioner who lazily passed a falsehood to a journalist, and a media that fell so deeply in love with a story that it couldn't be bothered to determine whether it was true."

I see that journalism hasn't changed at all in 50 years.

Some other things haven't changed since then, either.

The story made the Genovese murder front-page news around the world. People began wondering aloud how society had fallen so far, and letters to the editors at various newspapers blamed everything from television to the "women's-lib movement."

fusillade762:DrPainMD: FTA: "...the real thoughtlessness came from a police commissioner who lazily passed a falsehood to a journalist, and a media that fell so deeply in love with a story that it couldn't be bothered to determine whether it was true."

I see that journalism hasn't changed at all in 50 years.

Some other things haven't changed since then, either.

The story made the Genovese murder front-page news around the world. People began wondering aloud how society had fallen so far, and letters to the editors at various newspapers blamed everything from television to the "women's-lib movement."

Hmmmm... it did happen only a month after the Beatles' first appearances on the Ed Sullivan show. Damn hippies.

Monsignor: And I am reminded, on this holy day, of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, a long time ago, almost thirty years ago, this poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered her calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.Murphy: Aye.

OgreMagi:Personally, I believe the police pushed the story of uncaring neighbors to cover up their own incompetence for failing to respond.

That's exactly what happened. A little digging by the New York press would have uncovered that.

But this story is just another example of how the initial reports, no matter how wrong, become the accepted facts. The "uncaring neighbors" story has been debunked numerous times. But most people who have heard Kitty Genovese are convinced its true.

TheHighlandHowler:TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.

I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.

I have no problem at all with your ownership. NY State, however, mandates a year in jail for this transgression (supposedly).

Sorry, "City of NY."

This is where a woman was acquitted of killing her police officer husband where it was proved that he was a long time abuser but then given 5 years for possessing and using (one of her husband's) guns.

The only wrong thing about the Kitty Genovese story is that anyone still believes the long-debunked mythos that "38 people stood and watched the whole thing and did nothing." Most people--certainly anyone in criminology and sociology--knows that the "38 people" story is conflated from the fact that 38 total people saw or heard something on that night, that some or all of them SAID they could have done "something" or "could have done more"; that at least one person yelled out the window to Genovese's attacker but did not confront him; that at least one person called the police but it was unclear who; and that the entire story was spun by subsequent journalists and social do-gooders as a heinous example of how disconnected and apathetic urban society had become. But the truth has always been out there.

But if you rely on pop culture for your history instead of, you know, actual history books, then what you'll get is the "38 people watched Kitty Genovese die and did nothing," instead of the facts, and serve you right.

FWIW, I've heard plenty of people bring up Kitty Genovese when trying to make a point about the callousness of humanity, or what a shiathole New York City is, or any number of other pet peeves they're biatching about at the time.

DrPainMD:TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.

I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.

Not sure what the gun is good for then. If you use it, you're in jail. If you flash it at someone, you're in jail. If someone reports you, you're in jail. If it falls out of your pocket, you're in jail. If a cop catches you with it, you're full of bullets and dead or in jail after your hospital stay. Seriously, you don't fark with the NYPD when it comes to guns. They have a reputation to maintain.

RatMaster999:So, it was wrong, but not wrong enough to change the essential message of the original story.

Gotcha.

seems to me some girl gets beat up and I see her staggering outside, I would probably at least go out and make sure she's alright, especially since the they also saw the bad guy run away. At least speaking for myself, it's the minimum I would have done. Somebody would have seen she was stabbed and called an ambulance instead.

And of course, if she had not been alone, it's unlikely the bad guy would have risked returning.

So yeah, the neighbors get a pass for not sitting idly while she was getting attacked. They do not get a pass for not getting out of their arses and going outside to check on her.

Yesterday afternoon at the highway exit ramp, I was waiting to turn left. A woman got out of the car next to me in the right-turn lane, crying, and started walking down the road. The driver of the car (I assume boyfriend/husband), turned right, rolled the window down, and pulled up next to her. She kept walking, then crossed 4 lanes of traffic to get away from the car, then started walking back the other way. He drove down, pulled a u-turn, and came back to her again.

Not sure where I'm going with this, but I considered calling the cops and then decided against it. No signs of violence or other coercion, and by the time they responded who knows where the two of them would be.