Okay. I watched the show when it was on tv years ago. But I've just recently watched it again since then and I forgot how good that show was. Especially when I didn't know who Optimus Prime was when the show was on tv. I was young and not old enough to know about G1 at the time. But I do know who OP is by now and the way season 3 was amazing. The whole show was great. I do however feel that the last 2 episodes that ended the show were quit religious. Them saying "great primus" was a bit religious, but that didn't bother me as much as Megatron reading out of the Autobot bible. But other than that, the show was so good. I wish that there were more seasons to along with the show. I know there's Beast Machines but I didn't really like that show.

"There is no escape but death. Your life is just a murder train a comin'."-Dethklok

once you get used to the crazy art styling of Beast Machines, it turns out to be very ingaging,plus they eventually stop the "I Am transformed" nonsence, and The story is very dark and compelling, so I say give it a shot. I hated it at first, but it eventually came to be one of my personal favorites.

wigglez323 wrote:I do however feel that the last 2 episodes that ended the show were quit religious. Them saying "great primus" was a bit religious, but that didn't bother me as much as Megatron reading out of the Autobot bible.

Well, what'd you expect? The Transformers have their own cosmology. Primus, Unicron, the Matrix, the Thirteen, the Covenant of Primus, the Allspark, the AllSpark, the Well of All Sparks, Sacred Implements, the Oracle, Vector Sigma, "'Til all are one," the "Darkest Hour", etc. etc. all scream "Cybertronian religion".

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

I get the fact thet they have their religions. What I'm saying is that megatron reading out of the autobot bible was too religious. Especially for a kids show that not all the watchers are going to follow the first testimate (or however it's spelled. sorry towards who follow it.) Because that seemed pretty close to it. And I know BW went into BM, but I think they should do a prequal series. There is the Timelines comic and that Botcon special "Theft of the Golden Disk," But I'm talking about before that, writen by the show writers. IMO, that'd be sweet. I just feel BW was a bit too short for how seasons 2 and 3 got way better than season 1 and then it just ends.

"There is no escape but death. Your life is just a murder train a comin'."-Dethklok

wigglez323 wrote:I get the fact thet they have their religions. What I'm saying is that megatron reading out of the autobot bible was too religious.

Only the "good parts", as he called them. Remember, he ignored the other stuff in it that didn't glorify himself (or rather, didn't glorify the Megatron of myth).

wigglez323 wrote:Especially for a kids show that not all the watchers are going to follow the first testimate (or however it's spelled. sorry towards who follow it.) Because that seemed pretty close to it.

So what if the kids wouldn't get a deeper stuff? To them, they'd just see it as some fancy talk and would focus more the robots fighting each other with giant spaceships. The kids don't have to get, but that doesn't mean they can't leave it in for the older audiences who watched it to get.

wigglez323 wrote:And I know BW went into BM, but I think they should do a prequal series. There is the Timelines comic and that Botcon special "Theft of the Golden Disk," But I'm talking about before that, writen by the show writers. IMO, that'd be sweet.

Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio were the story consultants for "Dawn of Future's Past".

wigglez323 wrote:I just feel BW was a bit too short for how seasons 2 and 3 got way better than season 1 and then it just ends.

I don't follow. 52 episodes is too short? It "just ends"? The ending came at its appropriate time. All episodes leading up to it foreshadowed its approach. Line from Optimus indicated that the Beast Wars had to be won. And soon. Megatron's actions got so intense with the fabric of time that he had to be stopped once and for all. They couldn't drag it out any longer, unless you squeeze in some unimportant fillers like what season 1 had.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

I don't know. IMO, what made season 1 good and got me hooked was the "alien" stuff. I know they involved that one ship that transported Tigertron and Air Razor and then came back to bring in Tigerhawk. I think episodes battling the aliens would of been cool. And what I mean by "just ending" was that season 1 was good. Season 2 was way better and then season 3 was crazy awesome. I'm aware that they reached the end by capturing Megatron before he tried to kill Optimus Prime a second time. But the way the show was getting better and better, reached and ending when it was so good. I just feel that it should've been longer based on how good the show was. And BM had different writers so it's kind of "blah/what ever."

"There is no escape but death. Your life is just a murder train a comin'."-Dethklok

wigglez323 wrote:I don't know. IMO, what made season 1 good and got me hooked was the "alien" stuff. I know they involved that one ship that transported Tigertron and Air Razor and then came back to bring in Tigerhawk. I think episodes battling the aliens would of been cool. And what I mean by "just ending" was that season 1 was good. Season 2 was way better and then season 3 was crazy awesome. I'm aware that they reached the end by capturing Megatron before he tried to kill Optimus Prime a second time. But the way the show was getting better and better, reached and ending when it was so good. I just feel that it should've been longer based on how good the show was. And BM had different writers so it's kind of "blah/what ever."

Even then, the Vok have some religious context to themselves, due to their connection to The One.

Not to mention the budget constraints limited season 2 and 3 to 13 episodes each instead of 26. Beast Wars a very expensive show to be made at the time.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

wigglez323 wrote:I do however feel that the last 2 episodes that ended the show were quit religious. Them saying "great primus" was a bit religious, but that didn't bother me as much as Megatron reading out of the Autobot bible.

Well, what'd you expect? The Transformers have their own cosmology. Primus, Unicron, the Matrix, the Thirteen, the Covenant of Primus, the Allspark, the AllSpark, the Well of All Sparks, Sacred Implements, the Oracle, Vector Sigma, "'Til all are one," the "Darkest Hour", etc. etc. all scream "Cybertronian religion".

wigglez323 wrote:I do however feel that the last 2 episodes that ended the show were quit religious. Them saying "great primus" was a bit religious, but that didn't bother me as much as Megatron reading out of the Autobot bible.

Well, what'd you expect? The Transformers have their own cosmology. Primus, Unicron, the Matrix, the Thirteen, the Covenant of Primus, the Allspark, the AllSpark, the Well of All Sparks, Sacred Implements, the Oracle, Vector Sigma, "'Til all are one," the "Darkest Hour", etc. etc. all scream "Cybertronian religion".

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

wigglez323 wrote:I do however feel that the last 2 episodes that ended the show were quit religious. Them saying "great primus" was a bit religious, but that didn't bother me as much as Megatron reading out of the Autobot bible.

Well, what'd you expect? The Transformers have their own cosmology. Primus, Unicron, the Matrix, the Thirteen, the Covenant of Primus, the Allspark, the AllSpark, the Well of All Sparks, Sacred Implements, the Oracle, Vector Sigma, "'Til all are one," the "Darkest Hour", etc. etc. all scream "Cybertronian religion".

That's the best damn part of the entire TF universe IMO.

Beast Wars religiousness was OK, but what followed in BM was ridiculous (the whole "I am transformed", magical powers in the end of the show, etc... stuff).

To go along with how I said BW was too short in my opinion, There aren't enough BW comics out there either. Like there so any G1 and G2 comics out there, but very few of BW. I guess not alot would be happining in a little time amout that the BW lasted but still. There can't be a story where they landed on an alien planet or a different point of time on Earth? BW is my favorite part of the Cybertron story, and it seems like it was just brushed aside.

"There is no escape but death. Your life is just a murder train a comin'."-Dethklok

wigglez323 wrote:To go along with how I said BW was too short in my opinion, There aren't enough BW comics out there either. Like there so any G1 and G2 comics out there, but very few of BW. I guess not alot would be happining in a little time amout that the BW lasted but still. There can't be a story where they landed on an alien planet or a different point of time on Earth?

Let's see, there has been:

"Optimus Primal vs. Megatron!"

Critical Mass

Reaching the Omega Point

Primeval Dawn

The Beast Wars: Transformers video game advertising comic

"Ain't No Rat"

The Gathering

The Ascending

Beast Wars Sourcebook

"Dawn of Future's Past"

"The Razor's Edge"

And on the other side of the Pacific:

Beast Wars II (manga)

"The Cybertron Brainwashing Operation"

Beast Wars Neo (manga)

Beast Wars Metals (manga)

Beast Wars Reborn

wigglez323 wrote:BW is my favorite part of the Cybertron story, and it seems like it was just brushed aside.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

wigglez323 wrote:Where'd you get all that from? I have the gathering, the ascending 2 of 4, timelines and seen the source book. And trust me. I've been looking

Like TulioDude said, I looked them all up on TFWiki.

"Optimus Primal vs. Megatron!" was the pack-in comic that came with the bat Optimus Primal and gator Megatron two-pack

Critical Mass was the cover name given to the "Ground Zero" comic story released at BotCon 1997

Reaching the Omega Point was the 3-year-long convention epic released at BotCon from 1998 to 2000.

Primeval Dawn was the accompanying comic series that ran as a second story to the Transformers: The Wreckers comic series released at BotCon and OTFCC from 2001 to 2004. The reason I omitted mention of The Wreckers comic is becuase that one was more like a Beast Machines/Universe comic than a Beast Wars comic.

The Beast Wars: Transformers video game advertising comic was given away in Europe to promote the Beast Wars PC game.

"Ain't No Rat" was a one-off Dreamwave summer special comic from 2004.

The Gathering, the Ascending, and the Sourcebook you seem to know about.

"Dawn of Future's Past" you also seem to know of.

"The Razor's Edge" was an online text story about pre-BW Airazor released in 2007 on the TFCC website for club members

The manga for Beast Wars II, Beast Wars Neo, and Beast Wars Metals were all released in Japan in the the Japanese magazine Comic Bom Bom from 1998 to 2000.

"The Cybertron Brainwashing Operation" (note that, in this case, "Cybertron" = "Maximal") was a short comic story printed as a bonus in the pages of Beast Wars II Strongest Playing Book in 1998.

Beast Wars Reborn was a four-part text story released in the Japanese magazine Figure Ō in 2006

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Rodimus Prime wrote:Since we're on TF religion. Who would be the Jim Jones of the TF Universe? (Yes, I realize some of you are too young to get this. Google "Jonestown.") And don't drink the tainted Energon!

People wrote:zombybunnie: N_V scares me...I no longer wish that my pants transformed Burn:Anyone notice how much of a boring party pooper N_V is? He doesn't join in the fun, he's spent the last few years with dodgy builds feeding XP to the Autobots, and he sure as heck doesn't spam. disruptor96: I forgot how insane you were.

Beast Wars had arguably the most integrated, complex, continuous and mature storyline of all the TF series. It was great in that regard, even if the actual TF designs were a bit wacky (and got wackier with the transmetal thing).

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

Beast Wars season 1: Not just horrible, but literally painful to watch. Seeing a monkey smear its own feces all over my TV screen would have been higher-quality entertainment than this.

Beast Wars seasons 2 + 3: Much, much better. "Transmutate" and "Code of Hero" are easily among the best episodes in the entire 27-year history of the franchise.

Beast Machines: Positively orgasmic! Dark, spiritual, great story, great characters... best TF series of all time up until TF Prime came along.

I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

RiddlerJ wrote:Each one will come with an autographed picture of Michael Bay sitting on top of a huge pile of money.

cotss2012 wrote:Beast Wars season 1: Not just horrible, but literally painful to watch. Seeing a monkey smear its own feces all over my TV screen would have been higher-quality entertainment than this.

What show were you watching? Some Robot Chicken spoof or something? Cuz Beast Wars was devoid of feces.

cotss2012 wrote:Beast Machines: Positively orgasmic! Dark, spiritual, great story, great characters... best TF series of all time up until TF Prime came along.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'

I'll admit that it's a tough call, but between Blackarachnia's grating voice, Rattrap's incessant whining, Megatron's camp gayness, and the 10,000 times when I have to listen to someone say "I am transformed", I realized upon a second viewing that BM wasn't quite as awesome as I liked to think it was. Prime also gave us an Arcee who is actually important, a Megatron who is once again voiced by Frank Welker, and a Ratchet voiced by the same guy who played Shran on Enterprise... plus, everything on Beast Machines looks like a screenshot from Quake III Arena, whereas Prime looks like proper television-worthy CGI, with shadows and particle effects and stuff.

Also, I think Sumalee Montano's voice is sexy.

I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

RiddlerJ wrote:Each one will come with an autographed picture of Michael Bay sitting on top of a huge pile of money.

Right, because they totally had the 2011 level CGI technology back in 2000-2001, but chose not to use it.

Ten years ago, that was as best as it was gonna get. Besides, surely in another ten or fifteen years, some will be looking back in Prime and calling its look dated too.

Though, you've carefully avoided any mentioning of the storylines between the two. Prime's plot only really got good as of episode 12 and onward, while its first 11 episodes varied from "below average" to "good but nothing too special". Whereas Beast Machines maintained its quality level of high-minded sophisticated storytelling consistently throughout its entire run.

Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'