You're rite Stoupa ocean murder is not the same as land murder. Border wars just means ,We stopped them there. The American judge you speak of, well lets just say in America money talks. As far as protection laws for animals do me a favor count France's then count America's . Then like the wife says talk to the hand,bye.

Welcome Stoupa,Mark-v explained it fairly well. But what you enjoyed in '06 with friends and family coming to the outter banks is what is being denied to ALL AMERICANS AND VISITORS. The science has never been exact. That is the essence of the injunction because that Judge Doyle did not make an informed decision with facts. What happened was the squeekiest wheel got the most oil. That wheel being the National Audubon Society and The Defenders of Wildlife. They are using their big money and lawyers to dictate to the American populace how they should live. This is a situation that is not about birds, or access necessarily, special interest groups dictating American policy through the courts because they have enough money to sue the government. To elaborate my point on this a friend of ours is building a house in Coles Point Virginia, he flies his own planes, has a lovely girlfriend. Now in that county even though you own the land because of all the restrictions you have to have a land disturbing permit before you clear anything. Then when the inspector came out he could not issue the permit until and get this , the bald eagle was removed from his property. My friend did not have a problem with that except he was delayed in building his house probably by months. These are laws that have been PUSHED through in our government that need to be revised or repealed.

Thanks LT to take time to speak with me. It's difficult because I can't express very well in English and I can't explain all my thinking in your language.I hope you admit it's not the same thing to have fights on a border or on the sea and to have an hostile invasion on his land.US are a welcomed country like others in the world and you can't have closed borders everywhere; this is the same problem in Europe and the fanatics are in ours countries too.I don't understand why an american judge with loyalty, equity can take an adjonction without proves and without scientific opinion. Whay is his interest? What does he want?In France we have restrictions about maritimal parks but always for preserve the wildlife.Is there a logical reason for that?

I read the federal injunction of Judge Terrence Boyle, I saw on Google Earth the map of national park with allowed beaches and the restrictions. It's between May and September, right? Wrong!!!!

It's temporary for the preserve of birds, right? Big time wrong!!!!The vehicles can drive in some beaches areas, right? Big time wrong!!!!can you prefer free beaches without wildlife in the future for the next generations but cars, or preserved beaches with temporary restriction? You have no idea what you are talking about!

“I think the Freedom is too precious, important and rare in all the word not to speak for anything.” This is the only true statement you made. But you don’t understand it.

You're exactly right Stoupa freedom is too precious, important and rare not to speak-up and fight for. So I guess you can uderstand why we are fighgting for our rights,privilges and freedom so hard to drive where we have been driving for decades. Not to mention that as a community as a whole,[where you and yours come to visit and enjoy this area], this has been the way of life since your grandpappy was a wee lad. I'm sure he didnt approve of the German's takeover in your society,likewise we don't care for special intrest groups dictating when and where we should be able to go. Especially when there has been no scientific data shown to the public backing up their claim of bird loss. Added with the fact that in this country of "For the People-By the People",the people were never allowed to be heard fairly befor,during or after this case went to court. You're exactly wrong about the war thing not being on our earth. Those same Germans had U-Boats right here sinking ships and killing thousands of American mariners all along this coast, in fact you can scuba-dive on a couple of them when you come and visit the Outer Banks if you care too.That was actully one of the main reasons for the U.S.entering WW11.The Japanese did make it to Hawaii, Pearl Harbour,also Alaska but were repelled.The Mexicans fought us on our southern border. And now we've lost thousands more,two landmark buildings in N.Y.destroyed,the Pentagon attacked in Washington D.C.,all by some religious fanatics. Now our way of life has forever changed in major cities,on television,in airports,sports venues everywhere!. But here's the kicker Stoupa we [this country] just warmly welcomed those killers into our mists. Kind of like we do now when we allow you and your family to come here every two years or so. How nice of us huh?. I'm wondering [and I'M not alone] do all foriengers laugh at how stupid us Americans are too allow people like the French,Spannish,Germans,and Arabs accsess to this country. We don't persicute any religion,we don't deny any nationality entrance,we don't actively seize upon other countries misfortunes as we could have done in France's case,Panama's case,Japan's case,or Germany's case after WW11. Seems to me we could be bigger than the Roman,Persian,Ottaman,Greek or any empire if we wanted to by now, but we aren't. Kind of makes youn wonder eh?. I guess we just hate injustices, and wherever we see them around the world we want to fix them so individuals like you can enjoy freedom and liberty . That's why we are fighting so hard to continue driving and walking in these areas. So visitors like you can have that right too drive or walk these areas also!. Don't believe the enviros hype without proof Stoupa, the birds aren't endangered. Si vu fle'?.

Hi mark!your answer is very funny!The socialits don't govern the france since 1995! That's confirm American people don't interest the other countries-) French President Sarkozy has an idol: Georges W Bush. Do you know? french society is liberal and capitalist!We find that american are cool, relax and tolerant; Are you american?I don't want you submit to my think; It's an exchange of views!We are going to US every 2 years because WE LIKE U.S and HIS PEOPLE and I want to know better your way of life. Instead to say"you know nothing of his matter" why don't you explain me?I read the federal injunction of judge terrence Boyle, I saw on Google Earth the map of national park with allowed beaches and the restrictions. It's beetween May and September, right?It's temporary for the preserve of birds, right?The vehicules can drive in some beaches areas, right?can you prefer free beaches without wildlife in the future for the next generations but cars, or preserved beaches with temporary restriction?

Concerning The 3rd reich, I inform you french people are suffered during 6 years because of the Nazis in ours villages, on our earth, with lot of rapes, murders, humiliations; my grand father has been prisoner in Deuthschanld and in my living-room there are his wooden shoes with he escaped to join his wife and his son in France to preserve his memory.Thanks to american soldiers, we have refund the Freedom, the Liberation of our country, can you imagine that, because you never had a fascists army on your earth or a war with an other country (except the English on XVIII century), right?So, concerning the 3 rd reich, I think ( and I'm sure) I 'm much more concerned and informed than you! sorry!I think the Freedom is too precious, important and rare in all the word not to speak for anything.

Thanks for your observation. The Socialist people of France do not know freedom as we do in America. Why do you think we should do as the French and submit to how you think. You know nothing of this matter and probably think the entire beach has vehicles driving all over it. Do you think that pedistrians should also be restricted from the beach? That's what is happening, it not just vehicles! Why should one groups extreemist views be allowed to rule other peoples behavior and access to these prime locations?

We are french and went to the Outer banks on september 2006; Is was a big surprise for us to see SUV on the beaches! In fact we were shocked because the Nature and big cars are antinomics!It's forbidden in our country and France is the Human rights' country since 1789!We don't fell without freedom!

I read on this forum: "the national park belongs us" " It's our freedom to drive on the beach" " we are the country of freedom". Yes, of course. But, "Freedom" equal " no limits for everything?" If yes, we can shot our neighbour to make lot of noise because It's our freedom to sleep; we can waste water, electricity, gas because It's our freedom to have much more and more, every time, the size of the food portions in yours restaurants is incredible!we can destroy animals and other species because it's our freedom to be the most developped mammal.Wouaw, I can understand American people think like that because for many and many years US is the leader of the world and everything was allowed. I understand It's not easy to change habits. But, don't you think It's time to change now because of every problems around the world. I know American People don't have interest about other countries but now I think US has the same difficults than the European countries with increase of gas, subprime crisis, unployment and so on.. so It's a big crime not to have his car on the beach to preserve the nature?we are going to Hatteras Island on september and I'm sure there will be some beaches to walk and swimm and feel happy to be there.Don't worry about my thinking, It's the confrontation of 2 differents way of life; I want only to say you that elsewhere people are differents behavour and they are free too!I think you have difficults to understand me but be sure, It's very amazing to be on the ferry and see big cars on the beach!

I don't know who this guy is claiming to be a local but it is obvious that he is nothing more than a person that like geting a rise out of people who know the areas that are being systematically closed to all traffic; pedestrian and ORV. I hope that all the people who made the comments in favor of keeping our beach free to public use will write to thier congressional and house representatives in favor of the recent legislation to roll back the bogus decree.

Thought I might post some ramblings to help others understand and compose thier own letter.

Greetings Senator XXXXXX

House bill is HR 6233 Senate Bill is S. 3113

I am writing in hopes that you will please vote for a bill that will soon be before you. It concerns access to small enclaves that until now, were open to fishermen driving within specific designated areas of the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Most of the beach is, and has been restricted for many years; only these comparatively small areas remain set aside for “ORV” use.

I’m certain that I speak for every avid fisherman in saying that the access to these areas has never been more in doubt than now. We respect the wildlife we share this beach with, and do the utmost to keep it clean. We have helped preserve the only spots left for us to freely drive to for surf fishing access. Personally I have only used ORV access at Oregon Inlet once, but feel strongly about public access to these last remaining “Free Access” fishing locations.

The Audubon Society and Friends of Wildlife essentially implemented the decree this bill addresses. This decree was implemented without concern for the people of the area, and without input from local people or jurisdictions other than a judge. I have read much information about the justification for the decree, and find very little qualified scientific proof for any of it. The main subject of the decree (Piping Plover) is not an endangered species. The areas being restricted are consistently washed over during normal storms making them unstable and unsuitable for nesting. (The reason there are so few nesting in these areas.)

Please vote for this bill and restore a greatly loved liberty. We promise we will share the beach and cherish it just as we have for decades. Please do not let these special interest groups force their values upon these small remaining areas, so they may no longer be shared.

It's the tourists, bankers ,realators and developers that have caused our problems.It has been a free for all for to long. The overabundanceof visitors is doing serious harm. Something must be done to limit the amount of people. For the benefit of our economy and ecology.

The beaches need to stay open for both the environment and the people. If you close the beaches people will stop coming to the cape which will destroy the local economy. For the people who think that you can survive with out the tourism you have no clue how the economy works. For the environmentalists who think that the people should not be able to get on the beach you are WRONG. If people walk to the beach they would most likely be more lazy and leave their trash and waste more then they do now. If people are never able to go back on the beaches it would destroy people’s lives and the economy on the cape. Is it really worth it to destroy peoples lives and there heritage for some birds and turtles? Man comes before nature. The beaches need to stay open the way they have been. Everyone should not be punished for a few dumb decisions.

If everyone aired down to 18psi before beach driving there would be minimal ruts. The best place to drive is at the waters edge. But not reccomended for new beach drivers. No matter what happens the beach will not close. But something has to be done to curb the destruction of our heritage and habitat. Tourisim is degrading life on this island more and more. The worst thing happening to us at this point is the demand to build a new bridge.The bridge should be done away with completely.

Some where I saw a plan to build a resort for the corporate world, I wonder if this is all a part of the plan. Kill the economy, drive down property values, grab it up cheaply, and then build an old style hunting lodge for the worlds rich and elite. That anna mos sure sounds like she is the one needing therapy and religion. How could a so called native want to bite the hands that feed it?

Responding to the guy under me that wants an explanation about the birds being killed...

Let me share something about these little plovers. They're not native to NC and they live from Quebec to Brazil to the west coast. They are endangered in some areas, but the species as a whole is not endangered (they are threatened however). Also, these birds were believed to be nearly extinct 200 hundred years ago ...before cars were ever on beaches, yet they still made it this far. I love nature, I love animals, I care about the environment, I recycle, don't eat meat, and donate money to good causes (including one that is supporting the closed beaches, before this lawsuit) ...BUT I believe in freedom, our rights, and the people of Hatteras who are worried about the economy. Hatteras has been a home to me all my life (regardless of moving so much, I always end up back on the island).

The reason only one incident has been reported is probably because they're only recording direct impact/contact. Very few people are going to be walking down the beach and step on a bird or fly a kite and knock it out of the sky, but yeah, a truck can probably hit a bird driving down the beach. A truck can also hit one of these birds flying through the air while driving down the street just as easily, if not easier due to speed.

Of course, they don't consider, or at least they don't tell you, that less birds breed on well populated beaches. Ever seen a plover in Va Beach? Myrtle Beach? Hell, Kill Devil Hills on a holiday weekend? More birds breed on Hatteras Island BECAUSE THEY CAN ...because it's not overly populated. If you clear any beach, any area, something will populate it ...people, animals, plant life - the earth is constantly growing. Species are constantly dying (at least one a day).

Why take the beaches away from the people? The intentions sound great, I would consider siding with it if I didn't know their motives. Think about it, Hatteras almost looks the way it did 20 years ago... people stop coming to the beach, the govt is going to say "oh, we need to help the economy lets build CONDOS" cooperate take over, here they come.

Sorry birdy and my turtle friends, I still love you!

Sorry, this is long for a blog... I'm done. Going to work. Have a lovely day!

YEP THE MINI CONDOS. THING IS IT IS HARD TO TRY AND FOLLOW THE MONEY. I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHERE YA WOULD START. AGAIN THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT PLOVERS OR TURTLES. THIS ABOUT PRIVATE AGENDAS. AGAIN YA HAVE TO ASK WHO IS GOING TO BENEFIT FROM ALL OF THIS? THE MOST.? SORRY FOR THE LATE RESPONSE, WENT FISHING THIS WEEKEND FOR STRIPPER. OUT OF THE POTOMAC. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION ABOUT THE SITUATION.

JMU par Guest. do you know that the number of birds killed on Cape hatteras sea shore according to a video you can watch on savehatteras.com were all killed by the PARK SERVICE VEHICLES!!!!!!! Only 1 was killed by a civilian on the beach. How do you answer that???

You can't always keep from making ruts when youdrive. ususally there is one or two ramps or sand roads to get to where you want to go. You can't have vehicles driving the same roads over and over and not expect to get some ruts. Usually the deeper ones are from people who have no idea about letting air out of there tires or how to drive on soft sand. It is only a few who "joy ride" on the beach. Maybe that will not happen know that they are going to be watching the birds, turtle nest and the drivers. Ruts will be there no matter what

MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE A MUTUAL FRIEND THAT FISHES REGULARLY IN HATTERAS ON A FISHING TRIP NOT TOO LONG AGO ABOUT A MONTH HE WAS FISHING WITH HIS FRIENDS AND THIS JUDGE HE COULD NOT REMEMBER HIS NAME BUT THIS JUDGE WAS TELLING HIM ABOUT THE HUB-BUB ABOUT THE BEACHES BEING CLOSED AND SUCH. WELL FROM WHAT MY FRIEND TOLD US, THE JUDGE TOLD HIM THAT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THE MINIS ON HATTERAS ARE GLAD THE BEACHES ARE GOING TO BE CLOSED FOR DRIVING. HE ALSO STATED TO WAIT ON BUYING ANY PROPERTY DOWN THERE FOR THE PRICES WILL GO DOWN DECIDELY WHEN THIS COMES TO A HEAD. HE ALSO ASKED MY FRIEND IF HE HAD HEARD ANYTHING ON THE NEWS ABOUT THIS AND MY FRIEND OF COURSE REPLIED NO HE HADN'T. WELL THE JUDGE REPLIED THAT HE WOULDN'T UNTIL ALMOST TO THE END OF EVERYTHING BEING DECIDED. THAT MY FRIENDS IS AN AGENDA BY SOMEONE IN POWER, AND IN THE KNOW. IN MY OPINION DOWN RIGHT EVIL. :twisted:THIS IS NOT ABOUT PLOVER CHICKS, TURTLES, NOR EVEN THE PEOPLE IN THE AREA. FOLLOW THE MONEY. ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY. YA GOTTA ASK WHO IS BENEFITING MORE IN THE LONG RUN FROM THIS? WHO HAS A PLANNED STAKE IN THE SITUATION? WHO WILL MAKE THE MOST MONEY? THIS IS AN AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS TYPE DEAL.

Last edited by HYDRAFISH2 on May 1st 2008, 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ANOTHER THOUGHT TO ADD)

Read the temporary decree - once a plover nest is identified, a mile of beach will be closed. Should someone willfully or accidentally damage a nest or a bird, they'll close more. I've seen these regulations using plovers as an excuse instituted elsewhere, most notably at Moonstone Beach in RI. The authorities find more ways to make them more restrictive, and eventually the area shrinks to nothing and the hurdles to overcome to get it to it become too onerous. So people go somewhere else, and the economy goes to hell.

I am an environmentalist, but I'm also a humanist; there is room for both birds and people on the beach. I have resigned my long-standing memberships in Audubon and Defenders of Wildlife over this issue, and urge any other members who love Hatteras as it has been to do the same - and tell them why you're doing it.

One other thought: maybe this is indeed just do-gooders gone awry, but I sense something fishy (no pun intended) about this. What is really behind this closure? Someone closer to the situation than I should find and follow the money. How did Audubon and Defenders and that legal group hook up? How was this coordinated? If plovers were found on, say, Virginia Beach, Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head, would there be the same rush to closure?

i really am amazed that a Judge gets to determine the outcome of the Outer Banks ORV. I have a nurological disease and can't climb the dunes, I enjoy the beach by ORV, that the ONLY way i get to enjoy Gods little piece of heaven. Granted the Park Service has let us down, who whould have thought that the government would screw us again! There is no reason to close more of the beaches, the birds - think about it - 5 pairs - not because of orv traffic, not because people walk the beach but because they JUSTDONT COME TO HATTERAS!!!! Wake up enviromental wackos go someplace where they really neeed help. Hatteras has been doing just fine without you! How many years have you been vacationing there? I have been coming for 20 years and evertyhing has been fine untill YOU all decided it didn't fit with what YOU thought should happen. Many many people will lose everything they have with the beach being close to ORVs. Hatteras will never be able to recoop the losses over the next 3 years. Go where you are needed, stay away from where you are just causing problems. I don't believe that the birds don't come there because of ORV's the birds weren't coming 20 years ago when there was hardly any ORV"s on the beach. I don't believe your lies and neither should anyone else. LEAVE HATTERAS ALONE. IT HAS BEEN JUST FINE WITHOUT YOU!!!!