The new gaming thread

Narvius5 years ago

Now that you mention it... right, it *does* start faster. But I chalked that up to my recent reformat.Now that you mention it... right, it *does* start faster. But I chalked that up to my recent reformat.

I will, once I find the installation disk.Oh, you just reminded me I should back up my Minecraft saves... or maybe not, who cares.I will, once I find the installation disk.
Oh, you just reminded me I should back up my Minecraft saves... or maybe not, who cares.

I tend to backup and abandon my primary Minecraft save whenever a new version introduces radical new content. For example, I stopped using my first save back when Lapis Lazuli was implemented. My point? Don't worry about it!I tend to backup and abandon my primary Minecraft save whenever a new version introduces radical new content. For example, I stopped using my first save back when Lapis Lazuli was implemented. My point? Don't worry about it!

In case you didn't notice, Costume Quest (one of the newer games by Double Fine) was recently released on Steam (having previously been available only on XBLA and PSN).In case you didn't notice, [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/115100/]Costume Quest[/url] (one of the newer games by Double Fine) was recently released on Steam (having previously been available only on XBLA and PSN).

There are 32 days remaining until the official Minecraft release! Yay! I hope Mojang finishes on time, because a LOT of new content is going in for 1.9, and it would suck if we had a broken release 1.0. There are 32 days remaining until the official Minecraft release! Yay! I hope Mojang finishes on time, because a LOT of new content is going in for 1.9, and it would suck if we had a broken release 1.0. :roll:

Anonymous1157 said:There are 32 days remaining until the official Minecraft release! Yay! I hope Mojang finishes on time, because a LOT of new content is going in for 1.9, and it would suck if we had a broken release 1.0.

Don't worry, they're doing a feature-freeze a day or two from now. After that it's purely bug-squishing and performance-tuning up until release (and a little while after that, if I'm not mistaken).[quote=postid_180001]There are 32 days remaining until the official Minecraft release! Yay! I hope Mojang finishes on time, because a LOT of new content is going in for 1.9, and it would suck if we had a broken release 1.0. :roll:[/quote]
Don't worry, they're doing a feature-freeze a day or two from now. After that it's purely bug-squishing and performance-tuning up until release (and a little while after that, if I'm not mistaken).

Similar thing as Puzzle Quest: Weave a non-standard combat mechanic into a layer of RPG grindage. Except the core mechanic is so much more enjoyable than Puzzle Quest. It's based on DDR. And somewhat complicated - in the beginning. On the higher difficulties it's a real multitasking trainer. Basically you have three fields where notes can drop, one constantly has some of them, and hitting them restores mana, there's no penalty for failing to catch them. Then there's the defense field, where some notes appear from time to time, and dropping them results in you taking damage. Then, you can cast spells with your mana, which causes notes to fall in the third field, you need to hit all of the arrows for the spell to actually take effect. And of course, battles are time-limited. It's very frantic.

The humour seems slightly pretentious to me at times - and at times funny, so there's that. It has voice acting that isn't horrible.

I can only wholeheartedly recommend it.

Also, it's available at the price of nearly nothing.Sequence.
On Steam.
It's [i]awesome[/i].
Seriously.
Similar thing as Puzzle Quest: Weave a non-standard combat mechanic into a layer of RPG grindage. Except the core mechanic is [i]so much more[/i] enjoyable than Puzzle Quest. It's based on DDR. And somewhat complicated - in the beginning. On the higher difficulties it's a real multitasking trainer. Basically you have [i]three[/i] fields where notes can drop, one constantly has some of them, and hitting them restores mana, there's no penalty for failing to catch them. Then there's the defense field, where some notes appear from time to time, and dropping them results in you taking damage. Then, you can cast spells with your mana, which causes notes to fall in the third field, you need to hit all of the arrows for the spell to actually take effect. And of course, battles are time-limited. It's very frantic.
The humour seems slightly pretentious to me at times - and at times funny, so there's that. It has voice acting that isn't horrible.
I can only wholeheartedly recommend it.
Also, it's available at the price of nearly nothing.Edited 5 years ago

I finished it. The last boss was easy, the last boss was okay and the definately last boss was pretty hard. Now onto the highest difficulty grade! (I played on hard, now Spasmodic!)I finished it. :D
The last boss was easy, the [i]last[/i] boss was okay and the [i][b]definately[/b] last[/i] boss was pretty hard. Now onto the highest difficulty grade! (I played on hard, now Spasmodic!)

The last time I played a video game was about two weeks ago. Since then, I have turned in about five half-finished homework assignments across all of my university classes. I don't think I'll be playing video games for another week at best. *Collapses like a narcoleptic*The last time I played a video game was about two weeks ago. Since then, I have turned in about five half-finished homework assignments across all of my university classes. I don't think I'll be playing video games for another week at best. *Collapses like a narcoleptic*

Seems like Magicka is getting another expansion, and this one's going to include a new adventure campaign!Seems like Magicka is getting [url=http://www.paradoxplaza.com/press/2011/10/phnglui-mglwnafh-cthulhu-magicka-wgahnagl-fhtagn]another expansion[/url], and this one's going to include a new adventure campaign!Edited 5 years ago

I wonder, can you see other players in it as astronauts, or are they represented by the spaceships?I wonder, can you see other players in it as astronauts, or are they represented by the spaceships?Edited 5 years ago

ville said:I wonder, can you see other players in it as astronauts, or are they represented by the spaceships?

Well, multiplayer isn't in Blockade Runner yet, but it's supposed to work as the former, since you don't play as a spaceship; you play as an astronaut who can control a spaceship.

EDIT: Also, all you people playing Skyrim are really testing my patience; my copy isn't supposed to arrive for hours.

EDIT2: I just finished a nine-hour Skyrim binge. It is the greatest game of all time. If you haven't bought it yet, you should put it on your "must buy" list.[quote=postid_195007]I wonder, can you see other players in it as astronauts, or are they represented by the spaceships?[/quote]Well, multiplayer isn't in Blockade Runner yet, but it's supposed to work as the former, since you don't play as a spaceship; you play as an astronaut who can control a spaceship.
EDIT: Also, all you people playing Skyrim are really testing my patience; my copy isn't supposed to arrive for hours.
EDIT2: I just finished a nine-hour Skyrim binge. [i]It is the greatest game of all time.[/i] If you haven't bought it yet, you should put it on your "must buy" list.Edited 5 years ago

I'm not touching Skyrim for at least half a year. It won't get worse by then, so I can still enjoy it later.I'm not touching Skyrim for at least half a year. It won't get worse by then, so I can still enjoy it later.

I read this review on Skyrim. Oh well, I'm not a follower of The Elder Scrolls series anyway.I read [url=http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchwarz/20111111/8866/Skyrim_or_How_Not_to_Make_a_PC_Game.php]this review[/url] on Skyrim. Oh well, I'm not a follower of The Elder Scrolls series anyway.

...And yet I experience none of the problems he complains about. Did that patch Steam downloaded right after I installed from my disk fix some of those complaints?

...Also, I have most definitely used the console and then subsequently gotten an achievement. And not even to fix a quest bug (which I did not encounter), but rather to outright cheat in order to see what some expensive item did (because hey, I want to see all the cool stuff now).

Also:

One final damning point about Skyrim's PC port - it's horribly, pathetically optimized, and has major compatibility issues. Right from the bat, I knew that something was wrong when my high-end system was getting framerates in the low 20s from time to time, and when performance did not improve upon lowering the graphics options. Things became even more suspicious when I realized that there was no rhyme or reason for any of the framerate drops - whether I was outside in the overworld, the terrain stretching into the distance, or inside a tiny shop the size of a prison cell, the game's framerate fluctuates all over the place. There's no question about this: Skyrim is badly optimized.

When I first ran the game, I was getting a terrible framerate. I subsequently disabled Anti-Aliasing and dropped down Anisotropic Filtering. I now get a perfect framerate in all situations (and I'm sure that if I were using Windows 7 (to use DirectX 11) I would be able to use even higher graphics settings and get the same performance). So either his computer just sucks, or they fixed a lot of things since this review was written.[quote=postid_192011]I read [url=http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchwarz/20111111/8866/Skyrim_or_How_Not_to_Make_a_PC_Game.php]this review[/url] on Skyrim. Oh well, I'm not a follower of The Elder Scrolls series anyway.[/quote]...And yet I experience none of the problems he complains about. Did that patch Steam downloaded right after I installed from my disk fix some of those complaints?
...Also, I have most definitely used the console and then subsequently gotten an achievement. And not even to fix a quest bug (which I did not encounter), but rather to [i]outright cheat[/i] in order to see what some expensive item did (because hey, I want to see all the cool stuff [i]now[/i]).
Also:[quote]One final damning point about Skyrim's PC port - it's horribly, pathetically optimized, and has major compatibility issues. Right from the bat, I knew that something was wrong when my high-end system was getting framerates in the low 20s from time to time, and when performance did not improve upon lowering the graphics options. Things became even more suspicious when I realized that there was no rhyme or reason for any of the framerate drops - whether I was outside in the overworld, the terrain stretching into the distance, or inside a tiny shop the size of a prison cell, the game's framerate fluctuates all over the place. There's no question about this: Skyrim is badly optimized.[/quote]When I first ran the game, I was getting a terrible framerate. I subsequently disabled Anti-Aliasing and dropped down Anisotropic Filtering. I now get a perfect framerate in all situations (and I'm sure that if I were using Windows 7 (to use DirectX 11) I would be able to use even higher graphics settings and get the same performance). So either his computer just sucks, or they fixed a lot of things since this review was written.

Minecraft on Windows: 5 FPS with stuttering every three-quarter seconds.

Minecraft on Linux, same computer, world and mods: 24 FPS with absolutely no indication of slowing down, but crashes randomly within five minutes.

Go figure. *Pouts like an upset child*Minecraft on Windows: 5 FPS with stuttering every three-quarter seconds.
Minecraft on Linux, same computer, world and mods: 24 FPS with absolutely no indication of slowing down, but crashes randomly within five minutes.
Go figure. *Pouts like an upset child*

I want to be interested in Skyrim, I really do. I mean, I liked Fallout 3/NV. It has god damm dragons. But every time I watch I video of it or think back to the incredibly boring half-hour Oblivion managed to provide before I uninstalled it I just get this feeling of overwhelming MEEeeeeh.I want to be interested in Skyrim, I really do. I mean, I liked Fallout 3/NV. It has god damm dragons. But every time I watch I video of it or think back to the incredibly boring half-hour Oblivion managed to provide before I uninstalled it I just get this feeling of overwhelming MEEeeeeh.

Seriously, quit feeling personally attacked. Bethesda has a longtime history with buggy games and Skyrim won't be any different. Better, but it'll still have bugs. Have you seen some of the shadows? *shudders* The 'how to steal in Skyrim' video? Be happy it's not like Morrowind which just randomly crashed on every fifth or so loading screen.

Skyrim doesn't interest me in the least. I poured probably a hundred hours total in Morrowind + Oblivion, but it always felt so unrewarding afterwards. The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed), and sure, you can make your own story and kind of be whatever you want, but that doesn't interest me (yes it's a personal opinion goddammit) in the least.

So yeah. Back to Binding of Isaac and Starcraft 2. While waiting for Arkham City.[quote=postid_195009]*blabla*
Go figure. *Pouts like an upset child*[/quote]JVM implementation. I suspect in particular garbage collection optimizations and JIT, and a bug somewhere maybe also related to garbage collection. That wasn't too hard to figure out.
[quote=postid_195008]Also:[quote]*anecdotal evidence from reviewer*[/quote]*rebuked by anecdotal evidence from MK*[/quote]Seriously, quit feeling personally attacked. Bethesda has a longtime history with buggy games and Skyrim won't be any different. Better, but it'll still have bugs. Have you seen some of the shadows? *shudders* The '[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt5aUdijAN8]how to steal in Skyrim[/url]' video? Be happy it's not like Morrowind which just randomly crashed on every fifth or so loading screen.
Skyrim doesn't interest me in the least. I poured probably a hundred hours total in Morrowind + Oblivion, but it always felt so unrewarding afterwards. The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed), and sure, you can make your own story and kind of be whatever you want, but that doesn't interest me (yes it's a personal opinion goddammit) in the least.
So yeah. Back to Binding of Isaac and Starcraft 2. While waiting for Arkham City.

Have you tried updating LightWeight Java Game Library? (see here)If that's not of any help, have you tried RAMdisking it? (see here)[quote=postid_195009]Minecraft on Windows: 5 FPS with stuttering every three-quarter seconds.[/quote]
Have you tried updating LightWeight Java Game Library? ([url=http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutorials/Update_LWJGL]see here[/url])
If that's not of any help, have you tried RAMdisking it? ([url=http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutorials/Ramdisk_enabled_server]see here[/url])

Anonymous1157 said:The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed)

Ooh, them be fighting words... unless of course you are reffering to Assassins Creed ONE, the game that redefined repetition.[quote=postid_195009]The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed)[/quote]
Ooh, them be fighting words... unless of course you are reffering to Assassins Creed ONE, the game that redefined repetition.Edited 5 years ago

Anonymous1157 said:The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed)

Ooh, them be fighting words... unless of course you are reffering to Assassins Creed ONE, the game that redefined repetition.

How DARE you accuse me of insulting a game I am only vaguely familiar with! Amarth said that!

Amarth said:JVM implementation. I suspect in particular garbage collection optimizations and JIT, and a bug somewhere maybe also related to garbage collection. That wasn't too hard to figure out.

I got that far (Or at least generally figuring out that I needed another JVM, if not why), but the game gave me a blank screen when I tried to manually launch Minecraft with the standalone version of Oracle's JVM. I think I can fix it, though. *Reboots to Linux*

Edit: This is really weird. I got it to start with Oracle Java with a nightly LWJGL, but now the menu is stuck open when I load a world.

Edit 2: I found a combination that works, and then it crashed again. FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU

Edit 3: I'm 90% sure I just fixed it by switching to single-threaded Optifine. Piece of crap.

Venom31 said:Have you tried updating LightWeight Java Game Library? (see here)If that's not of any help, have you tried RAMdisking it? (see here)

Yes and no. A newer LWJGL made it slightly faster in Windows and A LOT less crashy in Linux, but the problems are still there. Also, even if I did ramdisk my world, that wouldn't actually solve my problem. It's not about the speed the world loads, it's that Windows on this hardware can't handle an established IndustrialCraft world and Linux could if the game didn't crash.[quote=postid_197004][quote=postid_195009]The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed)[/quote]
Ooh, them be fighting words... unless of course you are reffering to Assassins Creed ONE, the game that redefined repetition.[/quote]How DARE you accuse me of insulting a game I am only vaguely familiar with! Amarth said that!
[quote=postid_196007]JVM implementation. I suspect in particular garbage collection optimizations and JIT, and a bug somewhere maybe also related to garbage collection. That wasn't too hard to figure out.[/quote]I got that far (Or at least generally figuring out that I needed another JVM, if not why), but the game gave me a blank screen when I tried to manually launch Minecraft with the standalone version of Oracle's JVM. I think I can fix it, though. *Reboots to Linux*
Edit: This is really weird. I got it to start with Oracle Java with a nightly LWJGL, but now the menu is stuck open when I load a world. :(
Edit 2: I found a combination that works, and then it crashed again. FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU
Edit 3: I'm 90% sure I just fixed it by switching to single-threaded Optifine. Piece of crap.
[quote=postid_199006]Have you tried updating LightWeight Java Game Library? ([url=http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutorials/Update_LWJGL]see here[/url])
If that's not of any help, have you tried RAMdisking it? ([url=http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutorials/Ramdisk_enabled_server]see here[/url])[/quote] Yes and no. A newer LWJGL made it slightly faster in Windows and A LOT less crashy in Linux, but the problems are still there. Also, even if I did ramdisk my world, that wouldn't actually solve my problem. It's not about the speed the world loads, it's that Windows on this hardware can't handle an established IndustrialCraft world and Linux could if the game didn't crash.Edited 5 years ago

Anonymous1157 said:The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed)

Ooh, them be fighting words... unless of course you are reffering to Assassins Creed ONE, the game that redefined repetition.

I've only played one and two so far, I have AssBro installed though. Still, my point remains. A game cannot be built on graphics alone. In AssTwo, sure, Renaissance Venice looks splendid, but that didn't make the game. After two hours, you might occasionally look upon a building (I distinctly remember walking across the Ponte Vecchio in Forent and thinking "hey, I've been here in real life hundreds of years later") or admire the look from the viewpoints, but if that's all there is, you won't have much of a game. Assassin's Creed looks GREAT, but it also plays great, and that's why it's awesome. Skyrim looks GREAT, but combat is still completely unengaging and the game isn't that awesome.

Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?[quote=postid_197004][quote=postid_195009]The world is generic fantasy and the storytelling is bland. Sure, it looks spiffy, but that gets old quickly (also see: Assassin's Creed)[/quote]
Ooh, them be fighting words... unless of course you are reffering to Assassins Creed ONE, the game that redefined repetition.[/quote]I've only played one and two so far, I have AssBro installed though. Still, my point remains. A game cannot be built on graphics alone. In AssTwo, sure, Renaissance Venice looks splendid, but that didn't make the game. After two hours, you might occasionally look upon a building (I distinctly remember walking across the Ponte Vecchio in Forent and thinking "hey, I've been here in real life hundreds of years later") or admire the look from the viewpoints, but if that's all there is, you won't have much of a game. Assassin's Creed looks GREAT, but it also plays great, and that's why it's awesome. Skyrim looks GREAT, but combat is still completely unengaging and the game isn't that awesome.
Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?

Seriously, quit feeling personally attacked. Bethesda has a longtime history with buggy games and Skyrim won't be any different. Better, but it'll still have bugs.

Except... I haven't encountered a single bug. At all. The game is incredibly well-polished and entertaining. I keep looking for bugs, because I remember... well, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas... but it seems this new engine finally quashed the usual annoyances from Gamebryo. So... I'm loving it.

You mean NPCs actually have real lines of sight? I didn't even notice... that's totally awesome. Granted, they should probably react to having a bucket put on their head, but they should also probably react to a lot of things they don't react to. It's a game AI. I like what they do right more than what they do wrong.

Amarth said:Be happy it's not like Morrowind which just randomly crashed on every fifth or so loading screen.

Amarth said:Skyrim looks GREAT, but combat is still completely unengaging and the game isn't that awesome.

Except... combat has a whole ton of improvements that make it more awesome than any previous Elder Scrolls game. My "holy crap this game is awesome" moment came when I cast "Bound Sword" in both hands and started dual-wielding conjured swords. The spell animations are pretty awesome in this game.

Amarth said:Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?

Nope! They finally got rid of it! It's totally awesome![quote=postid_196007][quote=postid_195008]Also:[quote]*anecdotal evidence from reviewer*[/quote]*rebuked by anecdotal evidence from MK*[/quote]Seriously, quit feeling personally attacked. Bethesda has a longtime history with buggy games and Skyrim won't be any different. Better, but it'll still have bugs.[/quote]Except... I haven't encountered a single bug. At all. The game is incredibly well-polished and entertaining. I keep [i]looking[/i] for bugs, because I remember... well, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas... but it seems this new engine finally quashed the usual annoyances from Gamebryo. So... I'm loving it.
[quote=postid_196007]Have you seen some of the shadows? *shudders*[/quote]I've seen lots of shadows. They look very pretty. Is there supposed to be a problem with them?
[quote=postid_196007]The '[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt5aUdijAN8]how to steal in Skyrim[/url]' video?[/quote]You mean NPCs actually have real lines of sight? I didn't even notice... that's totally awesome. Granted, they should probably react to having a bucket put on their head, but they should also probably react to a lot of things they don't react to. It's a game AI. I like what they do right more than what they do wrong.
[quote=postid_196007]Be happy it's not like Morrowind which just randomly crashed on every fifth or so loading screen.[/quote]You're right, it's definitely more stable than Morrowind [i]or[/i] Oblivion... Skyrim hasn't crashed on me [i]once[/i].
[quote=postid_193008]Skyrim looks GREAT, but combat is still completely unengaging and the game isn't that awesome.[/quote]Except... combat has a whole ton of improvements that make it more awesome than any previous Elder Scrolls game. My "holy crap this game is awesome" moment came when I cast "Bound Sword" in both hands and started dual-wielding conjured swords. The spell animations are pretty awesome in this game.
[quote=postid_193008]Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?[/quote]Nope! They finally got rid of it! It's totally awesome!

Amarth said:Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?

Nope! They finally got rid of it! It's totally awesome!

Well thats not what I heard. As far as I know it still does the whole "enemies level with the player" thing, only it also leaves the weaker enemies around. Granted, I didnt play the game, but this did come from a developer...[quote=postid_195010]
[quote=postid_193008]Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?[/quote]Nope! They finally got rid of it! It's totally awesome![/quote]
Well thats not what I heard. As far as I know it still does the whole "enemies level with the player" thing, only it also leaves the weaker enemies around. Granted, I didnt play the game, but this did come from a developer...

Amarth said:Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?

Nope! They finally got rid of it! It's totally awesome!

Well thats not what I heard. As far as I know it still does the whole "enemies level with the player" thing, only it also leaves the weaker enemies around. Granted, I didnt play the game, but this did come from a developer...

I was referring to the system by which you level up your character, which has been completely retarded in the past (just mutter "attribute multipliers" in a crowded room and see how many people wince). The Skyrim leveling system is much streamlined and also not sucky.

As for "enemies level with the player", Bethesda already improved that in Fallout 3; they'll probably never make it so that leveling up is as pointless as it was in Oblivion ever again, but the basic system isn't going away. Hell, even Morrowind had almost the same thing, in the form of "leveled lists", which prevented more powerful monsters from spawning when the player was at a low level. The problem with Oblivion was that everything leveled with the player, and stuff from lower levels never spawned, meaning that once you hit level 50, everything was using Daedric equipment, and also exploring dungeons or completing quests was pointless at early levels because the rewards were based on your level. Suffice it to say, they never made that mistake again; just look at Fallout 3 and New Vegas (and now Skyrim).[quote=postid_193009][quote=postid_195010]
[quote=postid_193008]Do they still have the completely broken levelling system in Skyrim btw?[/quote]Nope! They finally got rid of it! It's totally awesome![/quote]
Well thats not what I heard. As far as I know it still does the whole "enemies level with the player" thing, only it also leaves the weaker enemies around. Granted, I didnt play the game, but this did come from a developer...[/quote]I was referring to the system by which you level up your character, which has been completely retarded in the past (just mutter "attribute multipliers" in a crowded room and see how many people wince). The Skyrim leveling system is much streamlined and also not sucky.
As for "enemies level with the player", Bethesda already improved that in Fallout 3; they'll probably never make it so that leveling up is as pointless as it was in Oblivion ever again, but the basic system isn't going away. Hell, even Morrowind had almost the same thing, in the form of "leveled lists", which prevented more powerful monsters from spawning when the player was at a low level. The problem with Oblivion was that everything leveled with the player, and stuff from lower levels never spawned, meaning that once you hit level 50, everything was using Daedric equipment, and also exploring dungeons or completing quests was pointless at early levels because the rewards were based on your level. Suffice it to say, they never made that mistake again; just look at Fallout 3 and New Vegas (and now Skyrim).Edited 5 years ago