First I’d like to narrow the topic of this thread to only this article, which means I would appreciate it if no other media outlets are brought up. I also appreciate it if past digressions of Fox News are not brought up. I would like the focus strictly on this article not on past misdeeds by any media outlet. This article also has nothing to do with Rev. Wright, Ayers, ACORN or any other “so-called” issues with either candidate. In other words, please debate the article and not the media or Obama or McCain. If you cannot do that please post in one of the other threads instead of this thread.

Fox News America’s Election HQ published an article entitled “Hip-Hop-Dancing Colin Powell Fuels Speculation He’ll Endorse Obama". (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/15/colin-powell-fuels-speculation-possible-endorsement/) The article offers no evidence that Powell may be leaning that way other than his dancing with “well-known rap stars” and his speaking at a “Africa Rising” celebration inside London’s Royal Albert Hall. I fail to see the connection between either events and Powell endorsing Obama.

What is the purpose of the story?

Do they know Powell is going to endorse Obama (certainly known by means other than those disclosed with the article) and this is a way to soften his endorsement?

I feel offended by this article, should I?

Should this article be considered offensive?

Rev7

10-15-2008, 07:36 PM

Wow. I totally agree with you. I too, don't see the connection. To me, it seems like the person that wrote this story wasted his/her time. Just because Powell went to an African festival doesn't mean that he is going to endorse Obama.

If what I think is right, and what this article is truly saying, then I a little offended.

Litofsky

10-15-2008, 08:00 PM

I find it very offensive, personally, that Fox is saying Powell will vote for Obama only because of his race. If anything, the author should have posted some actual facts, as opposed to "Well, since he's African-American, he'll be backing Obama."

It (the article) was attempting to convey a point, and failed miserably in said attempt.

Achilles

10-15-2008, 11:58 PM

Bummer. When I saw the title of the thread, I got excited that there might be a new action figure for my collection (would have looked great next to my "Constitution-Burning President Bush")

Is it okay if I not read the article before responding and just rant about the subheading?

Colin Powell showed off his hip-hop moves at an 'Africa Rising' celebration in London Tuesday, fueling speculation that the former secretary of state is about to endorse Barack Obama for president.

Subtext: Blacky meeting with other blackies to do blacky things = must mean endorsement of other blacky.

Good job Fox News. Fantastic reporting :thmbup1:

Corinthian

10-16-2008, 12:25 AM

What.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

Not the report. I don't care about that. I'm going on youtube to see if I can find a clip of Colin Powell doing the hip-hop.

mimartin

10-16-2008, 12:45 AM

Just because Powell went to an African festival doesn't mean that he is going to endorse Obama. According to this logic, I wonder if Fox News believes Condoleezza Rice is also for Obama. Is it okay if I not read the article before responding and just rant about the subheading?No problem, your rant did not violate my long rant before I actually posted the subject of the thread.

I will say you cut to the chase of why I found the Fox News story so offensive.

It (the article) was attempting to convey a point, and failed miserably in said attempt. Have they? I believe the point of the story was to remind every Joe Bob redneck out there that Barack Obama is African American. The second point, was to say that African Americans cannot be trusted by saying Secretary Powell may betray his party by endorsing Obama.

Did anyone else notice how terrible every picture posted was of Secretary Powell. I’d say they are pretty sure he is going to endorse Obama and they want to show Secretary Powell in the worse possible light.

Jae Onasi

10-16-2008, 12:45 AM

mimartin has narrowed the topic very carefully. Please stay within the confines of his request on this. Thanks.

The article didn't say who's doing the speculation--was it people in the audience? Reporters? Pundits? The black community? The white community? Dems or GOP? We don't know because the article did a crap job of making that clear. Knowing what group was doing the speculating was absolutely key in determining if this is supposed to be a racial issue or a racist issue--and the distinction there is subtle but important. This article has a very different meaning if it's the black audience that fueled the speculation vs a white GOP group, for instance.

Edit: Does anyone over the age of 29 and wearing business suits look good doing hip hop? :lol:

mimartin

10-16-2008, 01:04 AM

Jae, I guess that depends on how you counted to 29 :xp:, but I have a few female friends that would come back at you on this the name Will Smith. In fairness to Fox News the photo of Christina Aguilera linked with the other photos of Powell was just as terrible (actually worse).

Rogue Nine

10-16-2008, 01:06 AM

The article didn't say who's doing the speculation--was it people in the audience? Reporters? Pundits? The black community? The white community? Dems or GOP? We don't know because the article did a crap job of making that clear.
Maybe because it was FOX making a really far-reaching assumption on their own? :xp:

I think the best part of the article was this line:
Powell has said in the past that he has been hesitant to make an endorsement until he hears more from both candidates.
Right, so Obama let Powell know he likes hip-hop cuz he black, so that means Powell's going to back Obama. Impeccable logic.

Corinthian

10-16-2008, 01:13 AM

I like how you completely ignored what Jae said. Which was pretty reasonable from my perspective.

Rogue Nine

10-16-2008, 01:16 AM

I like how you completely ignored what Jae said. Which was pretty reasonable from my perspective.
Uh, I did address her points directly. I even quoted her.

And honestly, if you're going to publish something on 'speculation', it behooves you to be clear who is doing the speculating, or else it's just going to seem like you're doing it yourself, which is clearly how this article comes off.

Corinthian

10-16-2008, 01:18 AM

Yes, you quoted her, and then completely disregarded her points so you could make a pithy comment about Fox News.

Rogue Nine

10-16-2008, 01:25 AM

No, I suggested another possible avenue to explain the lack of sourcing on who did the 'speculation'.

It's a shoddy article that has no place being on a reputable news website.

Jae Onasi

10-16-2008, 01:40 AM

Maybe because it was FOX making a really far-reaching assumption on their own? :xp:
.Do you have proof for that? Do you know which group was speculating for sure? I already said we can't determine which group it is at this point, so we can't even say for sure what the assumptions truly are. If it was a the group of people at the gathering who were making that speculation (and the juxtaposition of the assumption sentence right after the description of the gathering makes that a possibility), then it comes off as something different than if the KKK was making the assumption. We won't know until the writer clarifies what the heck he was talking about.

@mimartin--would Will Smith be hip-hopping in a business suit? :D Besides, he is almost as sexy as Orlando Bloom, so that makes it OK. :lol:

Rogue Nine

10-16-2008, 01:44 AM

Do you have proof that they weren't? Given Fox's traditionally right-wing leaning, it isn't a far reach to assume that they came up with the speculation themselves. :p

We won't know until the writer clarifies what the heck he was talking about.
Why didn't he do that off the bat, to quash reactions like what's happening in this very thread?

Colin Powell Dances > Fox News post racist story based on Powell’s dancing > I point out unflattering photos of Powell > Jae remarks no one over 29 in a business suit looks good dancing Hip-Hop. > I point to Will Smith. :shades2:

Perfectly simple. :xp:

And thanks to EW, I learn something too.

The topic is Colin Powell doing a hip-hop dance. The topic isn't the dancing, the topic is the story and if the story is offensive.

ET Warrior

10-16-2008, 11:34 AM

I think Achilles pretty much hit the nail on the head with his comment. The article is blatantly racist and offensive.

GarfieldJL

10-16-2008, 01:13 PM

I think Achilles pretty much hit the nail on the head with his comment. The article is blatantly racist and offensive.

How exactly was this article racist?

The situation is that Fox News is wondering if Powell is going to endorse Obama, do I get why the article was even typed up, not particularly what Mr. Powell does in his spare time is his business, however this wasn't racist in any respect.

Fact is that people have been called racists for criticizing someone when their criticisms have absolutely nothing to do with someone's skin color.

The article being relatively pointless? yes.
The article being written by someone whom lacks a background in music to figure out what's what? yes
The article being racist? no
The article being offensive? not really

You can't call the people whom wrote a news story racist because they quoted what was actually said, see the lines in quotation marks.
Powell -- who has yet to back a candidate -- told the audience: "I stand before you as an African-American. Many people have said to me you became secretary of state of the USA, is it still necessary to say that you are an African American or that you are black? And I say yes, so that we can remind our children."

You can't call the people whom wrote a news story racist because they quoted what was actually said, see the lines in quotation marks.

Powell -- who has yet to back a candidate -- told the audience: "I stand before you as an African-American. Many people have said to me you became secretary of state of the USA, is it still necessary to say that you are an African American or that you are black? And I say yes, so that we can remind our children."Hey, maybe I missed it -- can you enlighten me? Where in that quote does Colin Powell say "And obviously I'm voting for Obama because I'm black"?

ET Warrior

10-16-2008, 01:24 PM

I can call an article racist when it insinuates the Collin Powell dancing Hip-Hop is somehow indicative of who he is going to vote for, because so far in all of the debates I have heard no mention from Obama about his stance on Hip-Hop and therefore see no reason to draw that conclusion unless you're going to assume it's a 'black thing'.

No really, a story whose only ill-conceived sources are purely race base speculation should not be considered racist. :rolleyes:

GarfieldJL

10-16-2008, 02:48 PM

I can call an article racist when it insinuates the Collin Powell dancing Hip-Hop is somehow indicative of who he is going to vote for, because so far in all of the debates I have heard no mention from Obama about his stance on Hip-Hop and therefore see no reason to draw that conclusion unless you're going to assume it's a 'black thing'.

Study the demographics from the primaries as to the breakdown of who voted for Obama and who voted for Hillary.

Fact is, there are people voting for Obama just because of skin color, just like there are people that are voting against him just because of skin color.

Fact is if this had been some white guy potentially supporting McCain because of McCain's skin color, you guys would be calling that person racist.

Personally, the race card has been played too many times this election to mean anything at this point except an attempt to intimidate people.

The article was going off of polling data among different demographics as well as data from the primaries.

Could the article have been worded better, yes it could have.

mimartin

10-16-2008, 03:32 PM

:confused:

Could you please read the original post and edit your remarks accordingly. Again, there are already threads in this very forum dedicated to those topics and threads that are not dedicated to those topics but that have became inundated with those topics. I wish this thread to stay on topic and not become about Obama or McCain. This article has nothing to do with either beyond the speculation that Powell may endorse Obama.

Thank You.

GarfieldJL

10-16-2008, 03:40 PM

Could you please read the original post and edit you remarks accordingly. Again, there are already threads in this very forum dedicated to those topics and threads that are not dedicated to those topics but that have became indicated with those topics. I wish this thread to stay on topic and not about Obama or McCain. This article has nothing to do with either beyond the speculation that Powell may endorse Obama.

I'm giving a reference to the most recent example of overplaying the race card that I can think of. People are a little too quick these days to call someone a racist. As well as being a little too quick to call something offensive.

Because unless you're saying the article is racist, there is nothing there to claim that the article is offensive.

True_Avery

10-16-2008, 03:41 PM

Fact is, there are people voting for Obama just because of skin color, just like there are people that are voting against him just because of skin color.
Quoted for emphasis.

The article wasn't offensive. He went up on stage in support of African Americans, then danced.

That's it. I'm sorry, but supporting the African Americans doesn't instantly make you a liberal/left-wing. You can support a group and still be a republican, and still vote republican.

Is he going to vote for Obama because of his skin color? I don't know, and I frankly find it silly that any of you care. I've heard worse reasons for voting.

Fact is if this had been some white guy potentially supporting McCain because of McCain's skin color, you guys would be calling that person racist.
The most intelligent thing I've heard all day. (Not being sarcastic)

The article wasn't racist though, people have called McCain a racist for pointing out Obama's connections to William Ayers, so my question would be is the race card being overused to the point it has no meaning other than intimidation?
At this point, yes. At the beginning of his run I'd say that the card had a valid use, but it seems to be now just something to throw out as an excuse to say "You're racist!"

Considering Obama has a chance to be president, I'd say that the actual racists don't have as much power as they think they do.

Here, let me point out something out:

"Many political analysts -- including Zbigniew Brzezinski, Robert Novak and William Kristol -- have predicted that Powell, who was secretary of state under President Bush, will back the Democrat in the race."
Political analysts.

I don't know about you, but they are often very incompetent people who are paid to sit down and talk about what they believe. Take their beliefs with as much salt as you would a Kavar's post.

And, again, they are poltical analysts. The article pointed out their opinion; making them the "racists", not the article.

Here is another quote:
"Powell has said in the past that he has been hesitant to make an endorsement until he hears more from both candidates."
There, two opposing parts in the article, making it break even on the bias scale.

So... why are we talking about this again? Seems to me you all are now just finding excuses to point fingers.

mimartin

10-16-2008, 03:53 PM

The article wasn't offensive. He went up on stage in support of African Americans, then danced. I see nothing offensive about that. The part I'm offended by is the article’s leap in logic that by dancing and attending a celebration of African heritage Colin Powell is going to endorse Obama. Does anyone really believe if Powell was about to endorse McCain we would have seen the same article with the title “Hip-Hop Dancing Colin Powell Fuels Speculation He’ll Endorse McCain”?

I not pointing fingers at either side as they have nothing to do with this. My problem is only with the article.

Because unless you're saying the article is racist, there is nothing there to claim that the article is offensive. I called it racist and I am offended by it.

GarfieldJL

10-16-2008, 04:05 PM

I see nothing offensive about that. The part I'm offended by is the article’s leap in logic that by dancing and attending a celebration of African heritage Colin Powell is going to endorse Obama. Does anyone really believe if Powell was about to endorse McCain we would have seen the same article with the title “Hip-Hop Dancing Colin Powell Fuels Speculation He’ll Endorse McCain”?

Uh huh, except as True_Avery pointed out:

"Many political analysts -- including Zbigniew Brzezinski, Robert Novak and William Kristol -- have predicted that Powell, who was secretary of state under President Bush, will back the Democrat in the race."
Political analysts.

I don't know about you, but they are often very incompetent people who are paid to sit down and talk about what they believe. Take their beliefs with as much salt as you would a Kavar's post.

And, again, they are poltical analysts. The article pointed out their opinion; making them the "racists", not the article.

I not pointing fingers at either side as they have nothing to do with this. My problem is only with the article.

And I'm saying that there is nothing there to say the article is racist as True_Avery pointed out. They're just quoting stuff and quoting some political analysts, which is how the story is being presented.

I called it racist and I am offended by it.

Quoting people in a news article and pointing out what political analysts are saying doesn't make the article racist. If anyone was racist it would be the analysts.

mimartin

10-16-2008, 04:10 PM

Does anyone really believe if Powell was about to endorse McCain we would have seen the same article with the title “Hip-Hop Dancing Colin Powell Fuels Speculation He’ll Endorse McCain”? Your reply does nothing to explain the title of the article or answer this question.

GarfieldJL

10-16-2008, 04:16 PM

Your reply does nothing to explain the title of the article or answer this question.

I don't really get what is racist about the title, nor do I get the offensive part.

True_Avery

10-16-2008, 04:18 PM

Your reply does nothing to explain the title of the article or answer this question.
It is an article title. Are we so desperate to nit-pick that we are going to debate about a title to an article that is not racist?

3) His dancing fueled speculation by a few political analysts.
"Many political analysts -- including Zbigniew Brzezinski, Robert Novak and William Kristol -- have predicted that Powell, who was secretary of state under President Bush, will back the Democrat in the race."

4) And, finally, why do we care who he votes for?
http://s.wsj.net/media/obama_mcain_art_257_20080529173504.jpg

The title is fitting for what the article offers.

Corinthian

10-16-2008, 04:23 PM

"I stand before you as an African-American. Many people have said to me you became secretary of state of the USA, is it still necessary to say that you are an African American or that you are black? And I say yes, so that we can remind our children."

It wasn't the Hip-Hop Dance. The title of the article is just something to catch the eye. Hell it caught my eye.

ET Warrior

10-16-2008, 04:26 PM

Except the article attempts to draw a correlation between the Hip-Hop dancing and the speculation of who he will support. None of the speculation I've seen about it has indicated that they were swayed by his hiphopping, EXCEPT for that article.

mimartin

10-16-2008, 04:33 PM

Fair enough, you don’t see any racism. Your saying it is not there or my saying it is there does not make either true. Just because I respect True_Avery’s opinion does not mean I agree with her in this case.

I am still offended by the article because I know we would never see the title“Hip-Hop Dancing Colin Powell Fuels Speculation He’ll Endorse McCain out of Fox News. Am I saying the author is a racist? No. I am saying the article is either racist or it is an attempt to smear Colin Powell before he possibly endorses Obama. So to me, either Fox News website is either bias or racist. I only see two options.

True_Avery

10-16-2008, 04:46 PM

Just because I respect True_Avery’s opinion does not mean I agree with her in this case.
Why thank you :D

I am still offended by the article because I know we would never see the title“Hip-Hop Dancing Colin Powell Fuels Speculation He’ll Endorse McCain out of Fox News. Am I saying the author is a racist? No. I am saying the article is either racist or it is an attempt to smear Colin Powell before he possibly endorses Obama. So to me, either Fox News website is either bias or racist. I only see two options.
Hm, fair enough.

I guess it depends on context. The title looks harmless enough, but I can see how it could be an attempt to call him out on it. I'd be more offended by it if the actual article was a smear, but from what I see its pretty tame.

Its definitely a title meant to catch the eye, as It seemed to catch all of our attention.

Being that it seems to have been made to reel people in, grabbing the bait and letting it pull you in seems like a waste of time. Sure, it might be offensive, but that may have been the intended feel in order to get people talking about it.

In that respect, it seems to have worked. Although I'm not one to talk, considering I'm here posting in this thread :p

Corinthian

10-16-2008, 04:46 PM

Daggers in every shadow much?

GarfieldJL

10-16-2008, 06:05 PM

Except the article attempts to draw a correlation between the Hip-Hop dancing and the speculation of who he will support. None of the speculation I've seen about it has indicated that they were swayed by his hiphopping, EXCEPT for that article.

And what exactly does that have to do with race? There are people of every race that dances to hip-hop.

It's an eye catching title, but Powell was dancing to hip-hop so it's accurate, there isn't any racial undertone.

Being that it seems to have been made to reel people in, grabbing the bait and letting it pull you in seems like a waste of time. Sure, it might be offensive, but that may have been the intended feel in order to get people talking about it.

Actually the accusation that it was racist is more than a bit of a stretch to begin with.

Achilles

10-16-2008, 06:17 PM

Except the article attempts to draw a correlation between the Hip-Hop dancing and the speculation of who he will support. None of the speculation I've seen about it has indicated that they were swayed by his hiphopping, EXCEPT for that article.Agreed, however I also think this post completely ignores the use of unnecessary race cues such as the mention of event (Africa Rising). I guess I'm still struggling to understand how "Colin Powell showed off his hip-hop moves at an 'Africa Rising' celebration in London Tuesday" is related to "fueling speculation that the former secretary of state is about to endorse Barack Obama for president."

It's a complete non sequitur. Here are some more:

"Colin Powell showed off his hip-hop moves at an 'Africa Rising' celebration in London Tuesday, fueling speculation that he wants to enslave the white race."

"Colin Powell showed off his hip-hop moves at an 'Africa Rising' celebration in London Tuesday, fueling speculation that he and Condolezza Rice are having an extra-marital affair."

"Colin Powell showed off his hip-hop moves at an 'Africa Rising' celebration in London Tuesday, fueling speculation that aliens will invade our planet next Wednesday."

I want to amend mimartin's ground rules for this thread so that every post for this one forward must include a non sequitur argument (using the format above). At the end of the thread, GarfieldJL will commit the list to memory and then recite it for Bill O'Reilly (using a spoken-word format complete with bongo drums and hemp pants) on Election Day. All in favor?

Actually the accusation that it was racist is more than a bit of a stretch to begin with.

Let's see...

Colin Powell has his dancing shoes on, fueling speculation that he's gearing up to do the Obama Two-Step.

These two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other, but let's see where the article takes us...

the Joint Chiefs of Staff performed an impromptu hip-hop dance alongside well-known rap stars Tuesday following a speech at a festival in London celebrating African-American music and fashion.

They make note of the African-American music and fashion festival, alongside rap stars... As that is the only music African-Americans listen to apparently. Other mentions of either musicians or fashion would help, but instead they go with rap... a traditional african american stereotype...

Powell -- who has yet to back a candidate -- told the audience:

Again, has nothing to do with the festival at all. They are really reaching to make this political.

"I stand before you as an African-American. Many people have said to me you became secretary of state of the USA, is it still necessary to say that you are an African American or that you are black? And I say yes, so that we can remind our children."

Not 100% sure why they choose this specific phrase as it points out that he is indeed African American, and is proud of the fact. Okay...not sure why this particular phrase is relevant to who he is picking for president as it discusses his positino in the current government (among other things as well if they actually took the time to quote anything else from his speech...link to more info on his speech in the bullet points at the end). Okay, let's continue...

Powell has said in the past that he has been hesitant to make an endorsement until he hears more from both candidates.

Arg, went from pres campaign, to festival, to the current government, now back to the campaign... article is somewhat skitzophranic... kinda like my ex-gf but compared to her the article actually makes sense so I digress as i'm still not sure what the article is about. Continuing...

Political pundits have speculated that his endorsement might come shortly after Wednesday night's presidential debate at Hofstra University, during which both Obama and John McCain will square off on domestic issues.

More campaign stuff... blah....

Many political analysts -- including Zbigniew Brzezinski, Robert Novak and William Kristol -- have predicted that Powell, who was secretary of state under President Bush, will back the Democrat in the race.

Okay, so now they are speculating that he's endorsing Obama even though he hasn't given any indication in the least as to who he is voting for. They did site some names here though which helps, but they are definitely doing they part in re-enforcing the idea that he is going with Obama with this article...

After Powell's address to the audience, he took center stage -- dressed in a suit and tie -- to show off his hip-hop dance moves.

Okay, back to the festival... making a note that Powell was center stage, in a suit and tie, and he danced hip-hop!!

Oh...and the summary at the top...

Colin Powell showed off his hip-hop moves at an 'Africa Rising' celebration in London Tuesday, fueling speculation that the former secretary of state is about to endorse Barack Obama for president.

Referring to the summary above...Africa Rising is in quotation... that's odd and the radar is going off a bit... especially since the full name is the Africa Rising Festival. So what's up with Africa Rising?! Leaning towards racist... but let's continue

They bring powell hip hop dancing, well known rap starts, and an african music and fashion festival all together in one nice neat sentence. What do they have to do with each other? Well, it is a music festival, they is hip hop there hence the rappers, and Powell is dancing. Great!! That's not bad, but wait... no mention of other performers, other dancers, or even fashion even though is explicitly stated in the sentence. It does draw on the stereotype of african americans liking rap (and in this case only rap) and that they all, no matter the age, can dance hip hop. That's kinda odd... granted not completely racist but definitely leaning that way.

They do make sure to mention Powell being proud that he is black though... I'm really trying to see where that fits in... but it doesn't in any way, shape, or form. In fact this quote adds nothing to the article and is completely unneeded to re-enforce any legitamate point in the article. The only thing it notes is that Powell is proud to be black. In fact, this was the only thing they took from his speech... link (part of it but also discusses other talking points) (http://blogs.abcnews.com/worldview/2008/10/colin-powell-sh.html) ... so they cherry picked this one specifically for impact... racist... yes.

The political points are completely useless in this article. They have no point and no relation. The only relation is that both Colin Powell and Barack Obama are black. If this were just an article about what Powell is going to do fine that's not racist, but unfortunately the article falls far short of that.

In conclusion...

They talk about classic african american stereotypes ignoring everything else that went on during this festival. They did manage part of the full name of the festival but put in quotes two specific words... Africa Rising. They emphasize a part of what Powell that discusses race specifically but do not mention anything else he discussed. Then they throw in politics by trying to show that Powell is endorsing Obama... how... because he's at an african american festival, dancing hip hop, talking with rap stars, and making a speech about being black.

Yes, this article is racist.

P.S....@achilles "Colin Powell showed off his hip-hop moves at an 'Africa Rising' celebration in London Tuesday, fueling speculation that one day logical fallacies will indeed come to an end."

Corinthian

10-17-2008, 02:32 AM

Are you serious, Kinchy? Let's start with your four points.

1: Oh. My. Lord. They did not put the word FESTIVAL in there. RACISTS. BURN THE RACISTS. Did you take lessons on how to flip out over nothing?

3: That's the kind of thing that's going to fuel speculation, especially given there's also a lot of speculation that Obama is getting a large number of votes from people who are only interested in him being Black.

4: Yep. You're right.

The article is pretty horrendous, but come on, painting it as a racist diatribe against the black community is stretching.

Tommycat

10-17-2008, 02:51 AM

Could it be because a vast majority of the African Americans are voting for Obama that him dancing with them may be seen as a possible trend towards an Obama endorsement. See unlike Whites, the African American community isn't split nearly 50/50. That community is near 98% for Obama. To be honest, that smacks of racism more than anything. If 98% of white voters were going to McCain, and Powell had been at a white festival(hah as if) it would fuel speculation that he was going to endorse McCain. Him attending a festival with a large majority of Obama supporters tends to lend credence to the speculation that he will endorse Obama.

Powell emphasizing his being black can be seem as him being with the majority of the black community.

Personally, it would be more likely to turn more Fox viewers towards voting for Obama anyway. Most of us have a deep respect for Powell. Even when the African American community was calling him an Oreo(no, that's not racist at all), I respected him. Of course it could also be Powell trying to show that just because he supports the Republicans that doesn't mean he's any less black(considdering the criticism he's had over the years, that may be what he's doing). But either way, the article itself isn't racist. If you see him at an NRA meeting palling around, it'll fuel speculation he's endorsing McCain.

Corinthian

10-17-2008, 03:05 AM

He could prove he's black a lot better than by dancing badly.

Tommycat

10-17-2008, 03:20 AM

He could prove he's black a lot better than by dancing badly.

Well I was talking more about his speech than his dance afterwards. Besides.. are you saying that blacks can't dance badly?

Corinthian

10-17-2008, 03:51 AM

...What?

Tommycat

10-17-2008, 04:04 AM

...What?

haha it was a joke on being offended by silly off the wall perceptions of racism... Guess you couldn't hear the sarcasm in my voice:D

Corinthian

10-17-2008, 04:42 AM

Sort of hard to tell sometimes on the 'Net.

mimartin

10-17-2008, 08:00 AM

See unlike Whites, the African American community isn't split nearly 50/50. That community is near 98% for Obama. So when are we going to see “Washing Her Hands Condoleezza Rice fuels speculation that Fuels Speculation She’ll Endorse Obama”? Him attending a festival with a large majority of Obama supporters tends to lend credence to the speculation that he will endorse Obama. They were not a large majority of Obama supporters. They were largely of African ancestry, but the majority of those in attendance were not even Americans, they were English. The fact that Powell attended a festival that celebrate his culture’s music and fashion in another country has nothing to do with American politics beyond what he said in his speech. Since the article largely ignored the speech, I can only assume Powell did not say he endorse Obama in it. Powell emphasizing his being black can be seem as him being with the majority of the black community. So? I do not see a problem with someone emphasizing who they are. Personally, it would be more likely to turn more Fox viewers towards voting for Obama anyway. Most of us have a deep respect for Powell. Even those that don’t watch Fox News can have a deep respect for Powell. Even when the African American community was calling him an Oreo(no, that's not racist at all), I respected him. Two wrongs make a…? :D Of course it could also be Powell trying to show that just because he supports the Republicans that doesn't mean he's any less black(considdering the criticism he's had over the years, that may be what he's doing). So the only reason he would endorse Obama is skin color? We cannot take Powell, a man we both say we respect, at his word that he is looking at the issues before making his decision based on those issues? But either way, the article itself isn't racist. If you see him at an NRA meeting palling around, it'll fuel speculation he's endorsing McCain. Isn’t the NRA only located in America? :xp:

KinchyB

10-17-2008, 10:16 AM

1: Oh. My. Lord. They did not put the word FESTIVAL in there. RACISTS. BURN THE RACISTS. Did you take lessons on how to flip out over nothing?

I'm not saying it's a big deal because they didn't add the Festival part to the name, this specific point is a slight issue as they emphasized Africa Rising specifically. They don't put the quotes around it not a big deal as that's the name, but they choose to emphasize that part of it for some unknown reason. I am curious... why do you think they emphasized only that part of the festival name? Why emphasize any part of the name at all?

Like it or not, in some parts of the U.S. they see this phrase and people start to question things and may become a bit nervous.

Perfectly fine... as he was at a festival. However, what does this have to do with politics? Nothing. Trying to draw a conclusion that he's Endorsing Obama from the fact that he's dancing hip hop at an African American Festival in London is drawing on an African American stereotype. That's racist.

3: That's the kind of thing that's going to fuel speculation, especially given there's also a lot of speculation that Obama is getting a large number of votes from people who are only interested in him being Black.

This is a basic assumption, not entirely wrong but an assumption none the less. Are people voting for him because he is black, yes. I know people in my family that are voting for Obama just for that reason and I dislike that fact. However, saying the majority will just because he is black without having any data to back that specific assumption up is somewhat racist within itself. Belive it or not African Americans have specific issues and concerns like every other non-african american out there. I would be willing to bet that although there are some out there that will vote for Obama because he's black, there are far more that will vote for him for his beliefs in the issues and because they belive he understands their issues and hardships more so than McCain.

4: Yep. You're right.

Thanks :D

The article is pretty horrendous, but come on, painting it as a racist diatribe against the black community is stretching.

Nope not really... If you want to help make me believe the article isn't answer this question...

Why did they use the quote of Colin Powell that they did? Out of his entire speech, where he talked about several other issues, they choose to focus on the quote where he talks about being black and proud of it (and then somehow with everything else, tying it back to Obama). Is the speech bad within itself, no... but what relationship does this quote have with the entire article? If it's a political article it has no place... if it's an article about the festival (which is stretching it a bit as they barely talked about it or who was there) then it's a bit more understandable, but why not one more sentence from the whole speech?

Don't get me wrong, i'm not offended by it... but I do think it's racist. Kinda weird, but I won't waste my time being upset over an article. Debating and article on the other hand can be fun. :xp:

Balderdash

10-17-2008, 02:51 PM

I think the article is clearly racially insensitive, if not outright racism.

On the other hand, it kind of does bring up a valid point, in a way - without meaning to. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a small part of Colin Powell that would be happy to see a black president, regardless of ideology or policy. African Americans have only been able to vote free from discriminatory practices since 1965. The US has come a long way in his lifetime.

Corinthian

10-17-2008, 02:54 PM

Personally, I think people in general and the Black Community in particular need to stop whining about racism at every opportunity that is presented.

Balderdash

10-17-2008, 03:11 PM

Huh? Who is whining?

Corinthian

10-17-2008, 04:23 PM

Everyone who's decrying this article as racist.

jonathan7

10-17-2008, 07:49 PM

Personally, I think people in general and the Black Community in particular need to stop whining about racism at every opportunity that is presented.

I was under the general impression that those who had brought this to light weren't actually members of the black community...

Personally I do think race is still a massive issue state side from my limited experience of America...

Tommycat

10-17-2008, 10:34 PM

Maybe I'm not being clear enough.

The black community largely(almost exclusively) supports Obama
Powell attends festival and emphasizes his being black.

While it does not guarantee he will support Obama, it does fuel speculation.

Those of you calling this article racist are ignoring reality and looking for an excuse to call Fox racist.

Now as for the reality of it, Powell may very well be endorsing Obama. I doubt though that a man of his calibur would endorse someone based on something as simple as race. More likely he likes what Obama is saying over what McCain is saying. But political pundits are bound to throw race in there as a factor. The same reason they didn't ask Oprah who she was endorsing on 04, but this year we sure heard about it on all of the news outlets. They've been throwing race out there at every turn. But only when Fox draws a correlation do people get up in arms. Why weren't you screaming racism about how CNN was harping on Oprah's endorsement of Obama? Why did she all of the sudden matter?

Q

10-17-2008, 10:51 PM

I must admit that after reading through this article twice I utterly fail to see WTH all of the fuss is about. :giveup:

Personally I do think race is still a massive issue state side from my limited experience of America...
I agree, but nowadays it's become sort of a sick joke in the US as more and more unscrupulous opportunists ride the issue to death for their own ends.

Achilles

10-17-2008, 11:03 PM

I must admit that after reading through this article twice I utterly fail to see WTH all of the fuss is about. :giveup:And that should really be a clear indicator for the rest of us that there really is no problem. From this point forth, Qliveur will be the barometer of what really is or is not an issue. Settled.

KinchyB

10-17-2008, 11:45 PM

While it does not guarantee he will support Obama, it does fuel speculation.

No, actually it doesn't. Again, take away the talk about race, it's not racism. However the way the article is put together it could be considered racism as they are drawing conclusion based on race and stereotypes... hence racism.

BTW... don't care that it's fox, which is why fox is not referenced anywhere else in my posts, unless you are trying to make this an issue about fox...?

Also... forcing african americans to sit in the back of the bus wasn't considered racist until Rosa Parks... seperate drinking fountains and bathrooms were normal as well... just because people accept things doesn't mean those things aren't racist.

If you can draw a clear connection between Colin Powell and why he's voting for Obama without using race or stereotypes from only this article I will concede this is not racist. Until then... or an edit of the article... it is racist.

Why weren't you screaming racism about how CNN was harping on Oprah's endorsement of Obama? Why did she all of the sudden matter?

Because she came out in support of Obama... there was no Oprah is at a black festival she must be supporting Obama article. The only reason this may have come out when it did is that she was not supporting Hillary, which the media then turned into "It's okay for women to not vot for Hillary since Oprah didnt" which doesn't make any sense at all either.

Personally, I think people in general and the Black Community in particular need to stop whining about racism at every opportunity that is presented.

When people stop denying that racism is present we'll stop "complaining" (in your words, which by the way... saying people are complaining about racism is a dangerous line to cross depending on who you are talking to. If at work, this can quite literally get you fired and a lawsuit before you even know what's going on). Pretty simple...

Tommycat

10-18-2008, 12:14 AM

No, actually it doesn't. Again, take away the talk about race, it's not racism. However the way the article is put together it could be considered racism as they are drawing conclusion based on race and stereotypes... hence racism.

Hmmm It DOES fuel speculation. It may not to you, but it does to others. That is factual. Take away all the talk of race and this whole thread is pointless.

Inyri

10-18-2008, 12:18 AM

Let me repeat your statement with a few logical word replacements:
Take away the topic of this thread and this whole thread is pointless.I agree!

KinchyB

10-18-2008, 12:19 AM

Hmmm It DOES fuel speculation. It may not to you, but it does to others. That is factual. Take away all the talk of race and this whole thread is pointless.

Ohh, that's right. I forgot you were the lone expert in the presidential campaign as to what causes speculation and what doesn't. Care to actually prove how it fuels speculation. so... without the article saying anything about politics... how would one come to the conclusion that Colin Powell is thinking of endorsing Obama by being at an African Rising Festival in London and talking about his job in the whitehouse?

Q

10-18-2008, 12:19 AM

And that should really be a clear indicator for the rest of us that there really is no problem. From this point forth, Qliveur will be the barometer of what really is or is not an issue. Settled.I never said that there wasn't a problem, I merely stated that I failed to see what all of the fuss was about. Is it implied or something?

Really, Achilles. :roleyess:

Achilles

10-18-2008, 12:26 AM

Oh, so you acknowledge that it is a problem but just don't care? :confused: Please clarify exactly what your position is, because I appear to be having some difficulty divining it on my own. Thanks in advance.

KinchyB

10-18-2008, 12:27 AM

I merely stated that I failed to see what all of the fuss was about. Is it implied or something?

Know this is at Achilles... but only 2 cents worth from me here... does the article have racist overtones, yes or no? to sum it up :)

Q

10-18-2008, 12:29 AM

If you're talking about racism in general, yes there is most definitely a problem. Has been and always will be to some extent.

If you're talking about the article, there is nothing that I found there that could be construed as offensive, which is exactly what I said before.

Clear enough for you now?

Achilles

10-18-2008, 12:37 AM

If you're talking about the article, there is nothing that I found there that could be construed as offensive.

Clear enough for you?Yes, that's what I thought you said the first time. So are you acknowledging that this is nothing more than your subjective opinion and could therefore be dismissed within an objective context (or an opposing subjective context) or would you like to attempt to support the assertion that there really is nothing offensive here?

To be fair, here is the crux of the article one more time: Black man at black function indicates that he must be getting ready to endorse the black candidate. What's the only thing tying the premises to the conclusion? Black.

Take the name of a prominent white political figure (heck, try it with a prominent political figure from any racial background except black) and replace all mention of Colin Powell with that name. If the article ceases to make sense, then maybe you'll start to see what the rest of us are seeing.

Q

10-18-2008, 12:47 AM

Isn't the opinion that it is offensive subjective?

KinchyB

10-18-2008, 12:48 AM

Isn't the opinion that it is offensive subjective?

Depends what the courts say. :xp:

/levity

Achilles

10-18-2008, 12:54 AM

Isn't the opinion that it is offensive subjective?Yes, I fully acknowledge that some people may not find racism offensive. In fact, some people *cough*FoxNewsJohnMcCainSarahPalin*cough* actually promote it.

Q

10-18-2008, 12:59 AM

Response to your edited post:

To be fair, here is the crux of the article one more time: Black man at black function indicates that he must be getting ready to endorse the black candidate. What's the only thing tying the premises to the conclusion? Black.

Take the name of a prominent white political figure (heck, try it with a prominent political figure from any racial background except black) and replace all mention of Colin Powell with that name. If the article ceases to make sense, then maybe you'll start to see what the rest of us are seeing.That actually clears it up a lot. I honestly failed to make that connection, and that's why I asked in the first place. Thank you for the explanation.

We really need to stop assuming the worst about each other. It leads to all sorts of unnecessary unpleasantries, Don't you think?

Tommycat

10-18-2008, 01:01 AM

Oh I see, now I have to be the LONE expert in that it is fueling speculation. Not that it actually may to pundits.

Look with the race issue being raised and with the race he is claiming solidarity with being over 90% for the one candidate, it can be concieved that way. You may choose to pretend that it has nothing to do with whether he will or not, however claiming solidarity with any group that supports one person over another even dispite race, can in fact fuel speculation that he would support that person. There no race involved there.... just the group that is un-named.

He claims I am one of you to a group.
That group supports Obama almost exclusively in this country.

That fuels speculation that he will support Obama.

maybe now without using race at all you can see that it isn't so much about race as it is claiming solidarity with that group.

If you saw Powell at an NRA convention and he claimed to be one of them, wouldn't that fuel speculation that he would support McCain?

Achilles

10-18-2008, 01:04 AM

That actually clears it up a lot. I honestly failed to make that connection, and that's why I asked in the first place. Thank you for the explanation.I'm glad to hear that and you're quite welcome.

We really need to stop assuming the worst about each other. It leads to all sorts of unnecessary unpleasantries, Don't you think?Actually, I was assuming the best about you, which is why I was having a great deal of difficulty understanding your position. Glad to hear that it was a genuine misunderstanding and not cause for me to have to reconsider my previously high opinion of your contributions. My sincere apologies for my role in the confusion.

KinchyB

10-18-2008, 01:07 AM

He claims I am one of you to a group.
That group supports Obama almost exclusively in this country.

That fuels speculation that he will support Obama.

maybe now without using race at all you can see that it isn't so much about race as it is claiming solidarity with that group.

Without using race it's fine... however why does the article reference one single quote from Colin's enitre speech talking about being black and ignoring the rest of it? Why talk about rap artists and hip hop when that was not the only music at the festival? Ironically Rap and hip hop do feed to an American stereotype though.... And what on earth does a festival in London have to do with supporting Barack Obama? The only thing tying all these together, as Achilles pointed out, is the color of the peoples skin. That is racist.

If you saw Powell at an NRA convention and he claimed to be one of them, wouldn't that fuel speculation that he would support McCain?

No. As being a member of the NRA does not equal supporting McCain since one is completely unrelated to the other.

Tommycat

10-18-2008, 01:54 AM

Without using race it's fine...
Great, now you are seeing the point I'm trying to make

however why does the article reference one single quote from Colin's enitre speech talking about being black and ignoring the rest of it? Why talk about rap artists and hip hop when that was not the only music at the festival? Ironically Rap and hip hop do feed to an American stereotype though.... And what on earth does a festival in London have to do with supporting Barack Obama? The only thing tying all these together, as Achilles pointed out, is the color of the peoples skin. That is racist.
Drat and you were doing so well... All the things tied together are part of the same group. The same group that supports one candidate almost exclusively in this country. They tend to mention things that went on at the convention. Sure they didn't mention the other talking points. But those were outside the story. Namely that he may be supporting Obama.

No. As being a member of the NRA does not equal supporting McCain since one is completely unrelated to the other.
bah.. whatever. It would cause speculation in the pundits world. It could be Pro-Life rallys or whatever you want. the point is that claiming solidarity with a group that almost exclusively supports one candidate over the other can in fact fuel speculation that the support will be given to that candidate.

Whether it is true or not, is not relevant to speculation. We can speculate that Bioware will be announcing KotOR MMO because Massively.com has been invited. It may not be true. But with Massively not having anything to do with SP games, that fuels speculation that it is in fact an MMO.

We can speculate that my mom(step mom) will be voting for Barack Obama, because she is also part of that group. Doesn't make it true. Doesn't have to be true to fuel speculation.

KinchyB

10-18-2008, 02:05 AM

Drat and you were doing so well... All the things tied together are part of the same group. The same group that supports one candidate almost exclusively in this country. They tend to mention things that went on at the convention. Sure they didn't mention the other talking points. But those were outside the story. Namely that he may be supporting Obama.

See the unfortunate part for your argument is that we are referring to the article, which is an issue you are conveniently not addressing. You did address the speech ever so slightly, so we are progressing in baby steps, so lets try again. Answer the questions or just admit that the article has racist undertones.

Sigh, why are you all so snarky to one another? What is this pre-school? Tone down the belittling comments all, I feel like a kindergarten teacher, everyone needs to consider doing some growing up! - j7

Det. Bart Lasiter

10-18-2008, 02:14 AM

http://i36.tinypic.com/wujmfa.jpg

Q

10-18-2008, 02:19 AM

:rofl:

Could this be considered offensive? :xp:

Achilles

10-18-2008, 02:20 AM

Jaymack says: Thread over

Tommycat

10-18-2008, 02:23 AM

Excuse me? You mean your insinuation that him dancing with well known rap artists was somehow racist?

Why talk about rap artists and hip hop when that was not the only music at the festival?
Well for one, many well known rap and hip hop artists that attended happened to be extremely critical of McCain and Palin. The African music is unrelated to the story. That story being the political leaning of Powell. Can you explain to me how that extra data would have led the reader to the headline in any way? The article is only as racist as you want to believe it is. Basically you are injecting racism.

Det. Bart Lasiter

10-18-2008, 02:25 AM

:rofl:

Could this be considered offensive? :xp:

chill brah smoke a bowl

http://i33.tinypic.com/zo5n6.jpg

Inyri

10-18-2008, 02:25 AM

Well for one, many well known rap and hip hop artists that attended happened to be extremely critical of McCain and Palin...That story being the political leaning of Powell.How is the political affiliation of a well known rap artist indicative of Colin Powell's political leaning?

Q

10-18-2008, 02:35 AM

chill brah smoke a bowl
At this point it couldn't hurt. McCain or myself. ;)

KinchyB

10-18-2008, 02:37 AM

Excuse me? You mean your insinuation that him dancing with well known rap artists was somehow racist?

No, read the whole post. Or go back and read the previous ones.

Well for one, many well known rap and hip hop artists that attended happened to be extremely critical of McCain and Palin. The African music is unrelated to the story. That story being the political leaning of Powell. Can you explain to me how that extra data would have led the reader to the headline in any way? The article is only as racist as you want to believe it is. Basically you are injecting racism.

So now we've decided it's a political article... okay let's go with that...

What does Colin dancing hip hop have to do with politics and endorsing Obama?

What does Colin socializing with rap stars have to do with politics and endorsing Obama?

His speech kinda fits that stance as it talks about the white house, however, he never mentions any party affiliations in his speech for this election as quoted from the article. They do however take time to point out that Colin is proud to be black...and completely ignore the rest of his speech. Why?

Also, why is the title of the article referencing the "Africa Rising" festival if it's a political article? Colin supporting Obama has nothing to do with the Festival.

Also, and this is admitedly nit picky but worthin mentioning. Why did they emphasize "Africa Rising" in the title and leave out festival if they are referring to it by name? Emphasizing it all doesn't make sense, but if they at least included festival you would know that. Or is Africa Rising something that shouldn't be taken seriously... in which case they are mocking the entire festival?

Let's not forget this is a festival in London. Not even in the U.S. but somehow they go out of their way to tie it to something in the U.S.

Again the only thing all these have in common is the color of people's skin. Therefore it is racist. If there is another link please explain, but if you say it's part of a group you are basically saying that it's due to their skin color and therefore you are agreeing that it is indeed racist...if that's your only argument.

Also, be sure to address all the points this time...thx.

Tommycat

10-18-2008, 03:02 AM

No, read the whole post. Or go back and read the previous ones.
read them... still seem to be talking in circles.

So now we've decided it's a political article... okay let's go with that...

What does Colin dancing hip hop have to do with politics and endorsing Obama?
Not the dancing, who he's dancing with.

What does Colin socializing with rap stars have to do with politics and endorsing Obama?
It's who those he is socializing with support.

His speech kinda fits that stance as it talks about the white house, however, he never mentions any party affiliations in his speech for this election as quoted from the article. They do however take time to point out that Colin is proud to be black...and completely ignore the rest of his speech. Why?
Because he is identifying with a group that over 90% supports Barack Obama.

Also, why is the title of the article referencing the "Africa Rising" festival if it's a political article? Colin supporting Obama has nothing to do with the Festival.
That tells of the location where the events occured that fuel the further speculation

Also, and this is admitedly nit picky but worthin mentioning. Why did they emphasize "Africa Rising" in the title and leave out festival if they are referring to it by name? Emphasizing it all doesn't make sense, but if they at least included festival you would know that. Or is Africa Rising something that shouldn't be taken seriously... in which case they are mocking the entire festival?
They may have thought that was the title of the celebration. Dunno, you might have to ask them. But it is actually not important.

Let's not forget this is a festival in London. Not even in the U.S. but somehow they go out of their way to tie it to something in the U.S.
Well he didn't attend the one in Washington.

Again the only thing all these have in common is the color of people's skin. Therefore it is racist. If there is another link please explain, but if you say it's part of a group you are basically saying that it's due to their skin color and therefore you are agreeing that it is indeed racist...if that's your only argument.

Also, be sure to address all the points this time...thx.
No. They are all related in that they have a majority of support for Barack Obama in this country. There is no inherant racism in the article. The racism is generated from outside sources. The ones attending from the US were almost unanimously in support of Obama. There not even mentioning group. Maybe there is racism in the black community that nearly 100% supports Obama. And you can't tell me that that nearly 100% are all keenly aware of all of his political financial and social stances. Perhaps you are looking at the wrong group of racists....

Now if you want offensive and racist:
real racism (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/17/racist.obama.newsletter.kcal?iref=videosearch)
Now that's racism for ya. Oh and yes it hurts to hear that crap coming from my OWN PARTY. Did someone give them a lobotomy? How could they not know THAT was offensive?

KinchyB

10-18-2008, 12:32 PM

Not the dancing, who he's dancing with.

They did talk about the dancing actually...I'm taking your blatant refusal to answer the question as an indication that dancing has nothing to do with Colin Powell endorsing obama.

It's who those he is socializing with support.

Considering this wasn't in the article I'm surprised you went this way. Read the article again. The only people to mention Obama are the writers. Also, this is an assumption and backed up with no facts or sources. You are assuming the people on Stage are supporting Obama. Argument has no merit.

Because he is identifying with a group that over 90% supports Barack Obama.

So we are back to using they are the same skin color again and that's why he supports Obama... nice.

That tells of the location where the events occured that fuel the further speculation

Mentioning it once it would, but the way it's laid out in the article no.

They may have thought that was the title of the celebration. Dunno, you might have to ask them. But it is actually not important.

So at this point there is no reason for emphasizing the Africa Rising portion. And yes it is important because there are people here in the US who see that and only think hate. IMO it's stretching, but if there are any other articles out there referencing a Festival and they do not carry the same format it does hold water. At the moment really don't feel like looking, but maybe later. :xp:

Well he didn't attend the one in Washington.

This does 0 to answer the question

No. They are all related in that they have a majority of support for Barack Obama in this country. There is no inherant racism in the article. The racism is generated from outside sources. The ones attending from the US were almost unanimously in support of Obama. There not even mentioning group. Maybe there is racism in the black community that nearly 100% supports Obama. And you can't tell me that that nearly 100% are all keenly aware of all of his political financial and social stances. Perhaps you are looking at the wrong group of racists....

Ahh yes, so because he's black he's supporting Barack. Gotcha...

You know what... I also heard that Colin Powell drank some coffee this mornig fueling speculation he's supporting Barack...

I also heard that Colin Powell brushed his teeth this mornig fueling speculation he's supporting Barack...

I also heard that Colin Powell drove his car this mornig fueling speculation he's supporting Barack...

I always seem to forget that because he is part of a larger group he has no free will. My bad... crap almost sounds like we're back in the early 1900s...

Now if you want offensive and racist:
real racism (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/17/racist.obama.newsletter.kcal?iref=videosearch)
Now that's racism for ya. Oh and yes it hurts to hear that crap coming from my OWN PARTY. Did someone give them a lobotomy? How could they not know THAT was offensive?

Bummer... but let's stay on topic with the article. :)

jonathan7

10-18-2008, 09:24 PM

Puts on kindergarten (pre-school) teachers hat... As you kids can't play nicely with one another I'm taking away your ball, honestly some of you really need to look and the condescending things your posting to each other, do you really think such posts are going to persuade people of your positions? *Shakes head* - Thread Closed... - j7