)(*&*^&$%&^(& "heirloom" tomatoes

Sometimes you just have to say something, if only for the lurkers and
the undecided. You can't leave things *always* unchallenged. I know
facts will never convince someone who want to believe fancy. (Facts
can even make them cling even harder to their beliefs.)

comprends.
Videogame reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgkG8PI1eM

RE: menus. That's what good wait-staff are for.
Heirlooms tomatoes, I go for color and texture. Two of my favorites are
'Kosovo' (big, meaty, oxheart, very few seeds) and 'Aunt Gertie's Gold'
(golden orange, meaty, beefsteak, comparatively few seeds).
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Kosovo
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Aunt_Gertie%27s_Gold
I've had poor results with the various Brandywine strains and find
the bi-colored Heirlooms ('Pineapple' and various other names) are
often quite, hmm, watery and overly sweet, though they can be very,
very pretty tomatoes.
http://www.localharvest.org/pineapple-heirloom-tomato-seeds-C15061
This year's new-to-me trial variety is the Burgess Stuffing tomato.
http://hudsonvalleyseeds.com/Red-Burgess-Stuffing-P3079500.aspx

Way to project, Todd. Text-book example, even!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
It's hard work living in a world of your own creation, but
I'm sure it has it's rewards!
Meanwhile, yesterday the radio station I listen to featured
a report on how Michigan agriculture is changing due to
longer (if more erratic) growing seasons.

Hi Pat,
Far better explained by the 206 year solar cycles
than Global Warming.
So far, no one has been caught falsifying data in the
solar cycle theory, as they have in the Global Warming fraud.
And speaking of changing weather patterns, did you hear about
the Chinese tour ship that got caught in the ice down
in Antarctica? They based their trip route on Global Warming
predictions. Ooops. (Global Warming model suck big time,
as they found out the hard way.)
This should be science, not politics and/or religion. New
things are discovered all the time. In science, todays truths
are tomorrows false hoods. When folks start using Political
Correctness to push their theory, you have got to wonder.
And especially wonder when they start using religious terms
like "denier".
Also, the way science is suppose to work, if you have a pet
theory, you go out and prove it. If your observations do not
match your models, then you scrap it and start over. None
of the models for Global Warming have panned out. Time
to scrap it and start over. It is not time to falsify data.
Look at it this way, if I think the moon is made out of swiss
cheese, I have to actually prove it to you, not the other way
around. You do not have to prove that it is not to me. And
I certainly should not falsify data to make my point.
-T

You are right. It was a Russian research vessel
that got stuck and a "Chinese" ice breaker that also
got stuck trying to rescue them. Most of the passengers
were Australians -- tourists wanting to see the effects
of Global Warming, I presume.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/27/world/antarctica-ship-stuck/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/03/world/antarctica-ship-stuck/index.html

You would think. When you believe things as Axioms, it is
hard to think otherwise. Russians tend to follow the
solar sun spot cycles and not Global Warming. So
some really bad judgment all around.

I wonder what other misapprehensions he has (beyond the idea that we
can provide sufficient calories for 7 billion plus humans without the use
of grains, potatoes and a several starchy tropical crops). Deniers often
hold an assortment of odd beliefs.
<http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2013/oct/02/climate-
change-denial-skeptics-psychology-study-conspiracy-theories>
Of course, as in the case of tobacco's association with cancer, their are
vested interests doing everything in their power encourage doubt and
denial. (Not that it takes much of a push to encourage people *not to take
action* when taking action is difficult or involves personal sacrifice.)

"Colarder?" Everyone knows you just wear the foil on
your head as a hat. And, you have to make sure it is
a tin foil hat, not aluminum. Silly. :-)

You are misrepresenting me. My point was that grains are causing
damage to our health (carbohydrate poisoning or T2 Diabetes).
What I was proposing was to find solutions around the problem
by increasing the fat content and decreasing the carbohydrate
content through hybridization. And, were available, switch
aways from grains. (I have no problem finding lots of other
low carb, high fat food to eat, but I realize other in different
countries may not.)
I even showed how the Philippines were trying to get off
rice due to it link to diabetes to a special strain of corn
(IPB Var 6) to try to solve the problem. Someone called me
a liar over it too. Never apologized either when I provided
voluminous documentation either.
And, I also pointed out that excess carbohydrates are addictive,
so if will be hard to get folks off them, even when alternatives
were available. It surely did not, until I hurt myself.
And, if your point was the it would be a major undertaking,
then we are in agreement. Grains are cheap sources of sugar
and are stable for long periods of time at room temperature too.
But, if your point is that it shouldn't be done, then we have
a major disagreement on our hands. Not to mention a moral
and humanitarian disagreement. I will take your word as
to which it is and not put words in your mouth.
Humanity has had challenges like this before. We will prevail.
Do you see any complaining about the health hazards of horse
s*** all over New York city anymore? It was a HUGE problem
at one time. We will prevail.

Rules for Radicals. Accuse other of what you do.
By the way, those claiming to be scientists that got caught
fabricating evidence are worse than any conspiracy types.

Speaking of denial. HEALTHY CARBS! Oh there are no special interests
invoiced in food like substances. No, none at all, none I tell you!
Hi Pat,
I think the moon is made out of swiss cheese. You have to
prove to me otherwise. And any evidence you provide to me,
I will consider a heresy. You moon cheese deniers are just
conspiracy theory nuts!
Oh the moon rocks brought back showed no sign of milk products?
It is because it is locked up in the moon's core, where you can't
measure it, you heretic denier.
I DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE YOU PROOF. THE SCIENCE IS ALREADY IN
ON THIS ONE. NOW IT IS TIME TO ACT. GIVE ME YOUR LIFESTYLE AND
YOUR FREEDOM!
-T
It is okay with me that you are a moon cheese denier. Just
adjust your tin foil hat so that it looks fashionable. A little
quirky, but I like you anyway. :-)

Update: I think my heirloom Toms must have hacked my computer and picked up on the badmouth. Looks like they got their **** together and are producing a few, just a few, more fruits.
Unrelated: I bit into a white peach that my friend brought over. New experience. Ever eat a fruit that had NO taste? Zero. Zip. Nada. Nichts.
I could only manage half. Terrifying.
HB

Hi Higgs,
Be careful you don't tell them what you plan on doing with their
offspring. I tell mine I am taking them for a drive in the
country. If you walk past them and you hear a faint voice that
accuses your parents of not being married, then it is too late
and they probably did hack your computer.
Mine cherries are all still green. They are mocking me.
-T

Extremely stupid analogy. We can measure the mass, size, and
compute the density of the moon. It cannot be made of Swiss
cheese; no need to search every corner.
Also, see:
Russell's Teapot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

That was the point. When NASA found the oceans where actually
cooling, the ideologues had to come up with something to say
their ideology was not refuted. The bollix they came up
with was that the energy was locked up in the depths of
the ocean, where coincidentally, just like my green cheese
in the moon's core, could not be measured.

while i generally often agree with you in
this case i sure don't. there are plenty
of people working with agricultural systems
which do not rely upon the normal mainstream
grains (corn, wheat, rice).
my own experience has shown me that i can
get quite a few calories from an area
without resorting to any of these. yes, it
may be more expensive in terms of labor for
a farmer to plant varied crops and to have
the ability to process and market them, but
that is not the issue the issue is is it
possible at all. quite clearly it is.
if this puts me in the denier village i'd
find that rather strange, but oh well...
songbird

Thankfully you are not in the denier village just the one that hasn't
thought it through. Those "plenty of people" you refer to are not trying to
feed the population of Asia, Africa and South America.
You and I have a choice of what calories to consume but we are in the rich
minority. BILLIONS don't. Cut out grains, tubers, sugarcane and bananas
and they starve. At the present state of the world it isn't possible for
them to choose otherwise.
If you really want to make this argument show me the sums. Given the land
area under cultivation show where do the calories come from if you exclude
those crops and substitute the next best non-carbohydrate thing that will
grow there.
Wealthy countries have the luxury of choosing what not to eat, the rest eat
whatever they can get hold of.
David
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A better world requires a daily struggle
against those who would mislead us.

Hi Songbird,
Actually, I think you have though it through very
well. I must disagree with David.
Your experience is the same as mine. When I first
got inducted into the pin cushion club, I was
a bit apprehensive as to what I could actually
eat. Once I learned, I now have more variety
than I have ever had before. As you stated, there
is lots of stuff out there.
When I walk through a grocery store now-a-days,
I avoid most of the place. I hit the paper goods,
the produce, and the meat section. I walk past
row after row after row of worthless, diabetes
inducing food like substances. I imagine you
don't need to go to the grocery store much, but
do you have the same experience as I do avoiding most
of it?
I once saw a documentary (love all the documentaries
on Netflix/Roku) where someone toured the world and
sampled all of the different foods everyone ate. And,
yes they were trying to do a bit of the "gross out"
factor, but they made the point that there are a lot
of other foods out there that we don't eat and don't
even know about. They eat a lot more variety than
we do, including (gross out factor) bugs, which are really
good for us. (I know, "EEEEWWWW".) We have definitely
lost our "well balanced diet".
So, the idea that if we cut or reduce the consumption
of Diabetes inducing "Healthy Carbs" (ha ha) and the
world would starve is not really a good argument.
I do not think David can make sweeping statements
about everyone else without knowing the specific
circumstances of each region, especially if he
is basing it only on the the availability of the
foods he knows about.
I remember one documentary were a group of women
(family, friends, tribe) had to walk a week to
get to the market. When asked about it, they
exclaimed that they would NEVER trade places
with us. They got to be with each other for
the entire time. They have a point. Tribe
versus stress. They were also not underfed.
One of the points Mark Sisson (Mr. Paleo) makes
about Grok (our favorite hunter/gatherer) is that
the variety of foods he had available to consume
were much greater that what we consume today. I
think this is a big issue for us in the developed
countries, where we suffer from malnutrition with
full bellies. I would posit that this is not as
much an issue elsewhere as it is here. When they
suffer from malnutrition, it is from actual
lack of food.
I was starving to death, literally, with a belly
full of (healthy carb) food when I hit the ER and
got inducted into the pin cushion club.
The Heirloom movement is a good start for us. Weird
fruits from around the world showing up for sale
is too. I love the variety (although not the non-organic
nature) of the food that shows up in the local Mexican
stores. What is that green thing with all the fuzz
on it anyway?
From what I can tell about you from your writing, you
are at the bleeding edge of this new movement, including
sustainable farming. (I admire what you do. To me
and my black thumb, it is like you are magic.) Lots of
varieties of things folks are not use to seeing and/or
eating. We have lost so much by hybridizing our produce
so it can be picked green and lay flat in shipping.
And small sustainable community farms do something
that the commercial farms can not. They grow produce
that actually tastes good, so your actually eat the stuff.
(As opposed to buying it out of guilt, toss it in the
refrigerator, shaking it once a week until it
wilts or get rubbery, then, guilt free, tossing it
into the trash.)
News from the black thumb front and things eaten in other
parts of the world: my yard is so full of purslane I could
feed 10 people with it. I break it up into one to two
inch pieces and spread it over a couple of plates for
my wife and I. I then cut up little pieces of a shallot,
radish, and a heirloom tomato. Sprinkle over the purslane.
Sprinkle dried pumpkin seeds over it (another super food,
can't believe folks throw the things out). Add my homemade
Paleo Ranch dressing. Top with bits of organic chicken or
natural ground beef. Beautiful presentation with all the
colors. And what a feast!
Sometimes I just bag up a bunch of Purslane for the week
to use as quick salads. It lasts for up to three week
in the refrigerator. Really easy and cheap to grow too.
Required almost no water. All you have to do is walk
on the soil or rocks to "disturb" the ground and away
it goes. It is way more expensive and difficult to
grow David's Health Carbs.
Tip: when you pick Purslane, give it a shake before
bagging it up. This will reseed the area.
Purslane is so highly nutritious (virtually zero carbs
too, so it is a free food for me) it is outrageous.
And we in the developed counties treat it like a
noxious weed. In less developed countries, it is
call "food". Goodness do we ever missing the boat on
a lot of this kind of stuff.
Chayote is another low carb food the takes very little
effort to grow too. Far less than Healthy Carbs!
As a matter of fact, you have to be careful it does not
overgrow your yard! Butter, Cinnamon, Stevia,
Chayote: YUM!
I think David's heart is in the right place, he just
doesn't have enough information at hand. I also think
that alternate viewpoints to his own tend to offends
him. Kind of gets in the way of learning new things.
Some where I read that Purslane is desirable in your garden
as your other plants follow Purslane's roots down. Can you
confirm or deny? I do know Purslane keeps the evaporation
down here in the desert. My vegi's seem to adore sharing
there space with them!
Since I have been inducted and started to teach myself
to cook, food in now an adventure. Especially sharing it
with loved ones. I love it well I nail a recipe and my
wife's eyes sparkle.
We have a lot to learn from the less developed counties.
I do not think we have the "luxury" of not learning from
them. They really should stay away from our Health Carbs,
if at all possible.
Here is to variety in a well balanced diet! I will stop
rambling now.
-T
Okay, I will stop rambling in a minute.
Ever since the first human eye look up at the night
sky and saw the first star we were meant to go there.
Even after we break the light barrier, as we will not
be able to carry enough food for the journey, we will
have to practice the sustainable techniques your are
working with and developing now to get to those stars.
So, you are higher tech and more forward thinking than
you ever imagined. You are helping humanity touch the
stars.
Now I will stop rambling.

You are really going to continue in this vein?
For people who want to learn something:
"CO2 lags the warming" you mentioned earlier.
Yes, the initial warming due to orbital cycles at the close of previous
ice ages preceeds the CO2 increase, but 90% of post-ice age warming
*follows* the increase in temperatures. Ever heard of feedback?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm
And might as well throw in these links, too, for people who might
want to learn something:
<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/seven-answers-to-
climate-contrarian-nonsense/>
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
I know, I know, this is becoming irksome to various people.
First ripe tomato, July 16. Not an heirloom, but rather a
SunSugar orange cherry tomato.

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