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“I can assure you that the following 8 kids did not feel any less "SPECIAL" when they got their hand raised Saturday night﻿﻿ because th﻿ey did not win for their original community or first high schoo﻿l”

Here what BrokenTowelRack should’ve put

Asa Garcia - Avon

What is his original community ?

8th Grade- he wrestled for his home school Avon Middle School North,

6th -7th Grade - Danville, he couldn’t wrestle for Avon MS cause they don’t allow Wrestling in 6th Grade at Intermediate schools in Avon. So I enrolled him Danville so he can wrestle on a team get that experience wrestling in the best wrestling county in the State . Danville is open enrollment Community, he did very well there.

Again what is your definition of original community?

K-5th Grade- Thee Most Notorious Streets in Indiana

The Mean Streets of Muncie

Is the Mean Streets of Muncie your definition of original community?

Just asking for a friend here, he completes me .

The Notorious

P.S. I like the copy & paste of Stats of my boy . Brings back good memories .

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I think that annually this is one of the silliest topics on the message board, where instead of making it about the impact freshmen, we see venom from people who are angry that some of these families moved to another district for a better opportunity in life for their child. I can assure you that the following 8 kids did not feel any less "SPECIAL" when they got their hand raised Saturday night because they did not win for their original community or first high school:

Brennen Cernus- Columbus, OH

Jacob Moran- Crown Point

Brayden Littell- Perry Meridian

Jesse Mendez- Lake Central

Asa Garcia- Danville

Elliott Rodgers- Noblesville

Jordan Slivka- Shenandoah

Nick South- Jennings County

Additionally, I think the "redshirt" argument is way overdone. As the poster above mentioned, one kid could be born in July and the other in August of the same year and they will be in different grades. If the parent of the kid who is born in July holds their child back, they are one month older and now in the same grade as the kid born in August. Not much of an advantage. I think it is more telling to go through the list of 12 kids and see what year they are on the USA Wrestling calendar as they finish up middle school. This paints a much better picture.

Lemley- 1st year Cadet

Schoeff- 1st year Cadet

Purdy- 1st year Cadet

Frazier- 2nd year Cadet

Carroll- 2nd year Cadet

Gilbert- 1st year Cadet

Lowery- 1st year Cadet

Goin- 1st year Cadet

Goodwin- 2nd year Cadet

Steenbeke- 1st year Cadet

Jones- 1st year Cadet

Willems- 1st year Cadet

Obviously you took exception and must not have liked my post from last night. I didn’t start the topic of discussion here, I simply replied to something that someone else had already brought up. Your post above is silly - of course these kids weren’t thinking less special because they didn’t win a State Title for their original hometown. They worked hard to get to where they were on that podium and should be damn proud of what they accomplished.

My post last night was twofold: (1) about programs that have built something special starting at the youth level. It’s great to see a bunch of elementary kids busting their butts together at that level and now years later having success together at the HS level. In my opinion, it makes the journey they are on more special not only for them but the families and coaches who are involved in that development. (2) Letting people know (who had asked in the post) that a very large majority of the Freshman class that is coming next year are not truly freshman.

I am not faulting people for moving into a new town, do what you want to do by all means. I do have a slight problem with parents holding their kids back (homeschooling them) when they are in 6th or 7th or 8th grade purely for one purpose. Let your kid be what they were supposed to be. The journey they are on should not be about being undefeated your HS career or a 2,3,4 X state champion.

Now, when you combine these two topics it gets really interesting. When you have parents who have all held their wrestlers back (not when they were getting ready to start kindergarten) and all of these same families just so happen to move to the same location in the state (Hell, some of the kids moving to this area aren’t even from IN - and just so happen to have an elite wrestler in their family). In my humble opinion it’s a bit fishy and it takes away some of the “special” things I originally posted about.

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There is clearly a comepetive advantage to “grey shirting”. I’m not sure when it started, but it seems like it’s a trend that isn’t going away, especially with elite level wrestlers. I wonder how prevalent it is with other sports?

My son is a QB that has done camps in GA and CA with kids from all over the country. Every QB parent that I have ever talked to from California, and many from Texas, had held their kid back. I was even given a tutorial on how/when to do it. We elected to stay the course and keep him in his natural grade even though he is on the young side. It has put him at a disadvantage in some cases, but he'll be fine either way.

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So you would trade off the social stigma of being held back versus some more wins on the wrestling mat?

Nope. That's why we didn't hold him back. It wasn't even a consideration; I couldn't justify it developmentally or academically. That said, I get why folks whose sons (and daughters) are very small do. Of course, I want him to do well, but wins and losses are secondary to just being able to compete and compete safely.

It may just be my perception since my son is training at academies, but there are a lot of kids being held back. And, I haven't noticed the social stigma. It is certainly feasible, but I haven't noticed.

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I have exhibit A as to why parents hold their kids back. I have roughly 30+ videos of my 87lb son wrestling 106. Trust me on this one.

Have to admit......I entertained the idea with Silas. But ultimately.....had I done so, I would’ve outwardly been setting an example of athletics overriding academics. And that’s a major breach of the Allred’s household priority line.

Being fully transparent.....Regardless of my sons success through relentless hard work, I still frequently think on the “what if’s”. He could legit be a sophomore right now and not such a young junior. Increased accolades in-state and Nationally would undoubtedly be attained. But ultimately....if athletics isn’t the back up plan to education/career, we’re setting our kids up for misaligned values. Make no mistake.....Silas plans to take the sport as far as his health, work ethic and God allows. But one reality we’ve embraced.....is that the events of tomorrow can never be fully predicted. And in retrospect......being young for his class and having to work harder to compensate for the age gap, has likely benefited his long term success and character much more than any medal could. And rest assured, as it pertains to the topic of age/success/recruiting......programs are very aware of an athletes age/projection. So in most instances.....being young and successful is even more appealing to recruiters. And that “success” I refer to here.....goes far beyond what an athlete accomplishes in their particular sport. Character & Classroom has to come first.

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Nope. That's why we didn't hold him back. It wasn't even a consideration; I couldn't justify it developmentally or academically. That said, I get why folks whose sons (and daughters) are very small do. Of course, I want him to do well, but wins and losses are secondary to just being able to compete and compete safely.

It may just be my perception since my son is training at academies, but there are a lot of kids being held back. And, I haven't noticed the social stigma. It is certainly feasible, but I haven't noticed.

The social stigma wouldn't be seen at an academy or wrestling practice, but in the halls of the school. Kids are cruel, especially at the middle school level. It is an awkward time for kids...now add to it you are being held back to become a "better" wrestler.

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Have to admit......I entertained the idea with Silas. But ultimately.....had I done so, I would’ve outwardly been setting an example of athletics overriding academics. And that’s a major breach of the Allred’s household priority line.

Being fully transparent.....Regardless of my sons success through relentless hard work, I still frequently think on the “what if’s”. He could legit be a sophomore right now and not such a young junior. Increased accolades in-state and Nationally would undoubtedly be attained. But ultimately....if athletics isn’t the back up plan to education/career, we’re setting our kids up for misaligned values. Make no mistake.....Silas plans to take the sport as far as his health, work ethic and God allows. But one reality we’ve embraced.....is that the events of tomorrow can never be fully predicted. And in retrospect......being young for his class and having to work harder to compensate for the age gap, has likely benefited his long term success and character much more than any medal could. And rest assured, as it pertains to the topic of age/success/recruiting......programs are very aware of an athletes age/projection. So in most instances.....being young and successful is even more appealing to recruiters. And that “success” I refer to here.....goes far beyond what an athlete accomplishes in their particular sport. Character & Classroom has to come first.

can't think of a better parent than you Big dogg... You have done great work him and he is going to be great in whatever he does and he's got great support along the way..I have none of my own children but if I did I would wanna follow your blueprint..I got the most utmost respect for you and your son and so happy we have became friends over the past few years and appreciate the kind words of wisdom you drop on Trizton..I can't wait to see the boys excel at the next level and become leaders for us all to embrace.

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There are probably 5 or 6 middle schoolers I know of that could arguably fit in the top, lets say, 30. There are also several that have been held back and are soon to be in that top 12 list. I also know of about 4 or 5 freshmen that fit into that category; outside of Evan Dickey (New Castle Semi-State), they're invisible.

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Yeah, you're probably right. I hadn't really thought of it in that way.

14 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

The social stigma wouldn't be seen at an academy or wrestling practice, but in the halls of the school. Kids are cruel, especially at the middle school level. It is an awkward time for kids...now add to it you are being held back to become a "better" wrestler.

Edited February 20 by gsmith58

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Have to admit......I entertained the idea with Silas. But ultimately.....had I done so, I would’ve outwardly been setting an example of athletics overriding academics. And that’s a major breach of the Allred’s household priority line.

Being fully transparent.....Regardless of my sons success through relentless hard work, I still frequently think on the “what if’s”. He could legit be a sophomore right now and not such a young junior. Increased accolades in-state and Nationally would undoubtedly be attained. But ultimately....if athletics isn’t the back up plan to education/career, we’re setting our kids up for misaligned values. Make no mistake.....Silas plans to take the sport as far as his health, work ethic and God allows. But one reality we’ve embraced.....is that the events of tomorrow can never be fully predicted. And in retrospect......being young for his class and having to work harder to compensate for the age gap, has likely benefited his long term success and character much more than any medal could. And rest assured, as it pertains to the topic of age/success/recruiting......programs are very aware of an athletes age/projection. So in most instances.....being young and successful is even more appealing to recruiters. And that “success” I refer to here.....goes far beyond what an athlete accomplishes in their particular sport. Character & Classroom has to come first.

Kudos to you, sir...and it's not mystery on why Silas is as successful as he is. Your response here is incredibly refreshing! Good luck to you and your fam wherever that path leads!

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I did an updated rankings when I found out the Ohio kids were coming, where I had Cernus number 3(state champ) and Donahue Number 4(runner up). So top 4 produced 2 state champs and 2 runner ups. #dreamteam2022

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I have exhibit A as to why parents hold their kids back. I have roughly 30+ videos of my 87lb son wrestling 106. Trust me on this one.

I am not telling them what to do, but I don't see how being an undersized 106 is really any different than the freshmen kids who weigh 145 lbs or more who are going to face juniors and seniors all year long if they can make varsity. They will both take losses because they are freshmen in that case. You are at least guaranteed to face someone your age or maybe rarely a sophomore at that weight.

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I am not telling them what to do, but I don't see how being an undersized 106 is really any different than the freshmen kids who weigh 145 lbs or more who are going to face juniors and seniors all year long if they can make varsity. They will both take losses because they are freshmen in that case. You are at least guaranteed to face someone your age or maybe rarely a sophomore at that weight.

An 87 lber wrestling a 106 (that most likely walks around at 110) is equal to a 145 wrestling a 175 lber. Giving up 20% of body weight.