Grondmaster has made 25465 posts and is a Dwarf from Glittering Caves and has sailed into the West.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Welcome to the forum Ladyoflegolas.

I think Gandalf was a better diplomat/conman than a wizard. In fact how much magic can we remember him ever invoking?

Some fireworks against the worgs in and Hollin and before the eagles rescued the fourteen from the burning trees; a little light and a closing spell in Moria; some thunder and lightening to cower Wormtongue in Rohan; and ... ?

Valedhelgwath has made 4242 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

I agree, Grondy. Gandalf used intellegence and guile more than force. Magic in MiddleEarth at this time appears more subtle than the fire and brimstone one normally associates with magic, however. Even Saruman seemed to use his voice to beguile people rather than fling fireballs around. Maybe the magic Gandalf used was of the morale boosting type. Not noticably visible, but very effective if you can encourage an army to stand rather than flee.No doubt in his true form, in Aman, Gandalf would be very magical. Tied down with a human body, however, I believe his powers were severely limited. The Istari were after all under instructions to guide the free people rather than wield power.

Ungoliant has made 993 posts and is from and is not online.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Maybe they had a wizard's 'Code of Honour' that forbade them from using magic on non-users. I remember reading that Saruman & Gandalf fought at Orthanc using magic. And I've always assumed that Gandalf employed magic in order to defeat the Necromancer.

I suppose he kept his end of the bargain (assuming again, here) and never harmed anyone using magic. I can't recall reading anywhere that he actually harmed anyone, do you? (Well, with the exception of the wargs but that was in self-defence).

Saruman, on the other hand, must have used magic in some form (eg. when creating the Uruk Hai?). And excessive use or abuse of his magical powers corrupted him and eventually led to his downfall.

As Master Yoda once said:

Quote:Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny

Grondmaster has made 25465 posts and is a Dwarf from Glittering Caves and has sailed into the West.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Had Rosie been a longtime member I would have just moved her post to the tavern and deleted it from here; however, as she was new, I felt I ought to provide an explanation for when she returned looking for replies.

Someday they will build a forum template where the moderator can cut individual posts or blocks of posts from one thread and paste them to the end of another thread or a new one. Until that function becomes available, I do as well as I can.

TomBombadillo has made 2746 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Good point there Taz. So Wizards can make magic then? What about Radagast being able to talk to birds and other animals? And Gandalf could do so to, apparently, cos he spoke to Gwaihir, right? Mmmmagic!

Grondmaster has made 25465 posts and is a Dwarf from Glittering Caves and has sailed into the West.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Talking to birds and animals is more of a useage of knowledge gained over the years, rather than a form of magic. Magic is more of a bending the laws of nature to make something happen, whether illusionary, physical, or temporal. Maybe 'The Nature of Magic' should be a future topic for one of our Weekly classes.

Grondmaster has made 25465 posts and is a Dwarf from Glittering Caves and has sailed into the West.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Oh, Gandalf could do great gobs of magic, but whenever he did so, it was like a putting up a sign saying, "GANDALF IS HERE!" which Sauron/Saruman could readily read. Hence his comment as he burned the Wolves in the camp between Caradhras and Moria.

Grondmaster has made 25465 posts and is a Dwarf from Glittering Caves and has sailed into the West.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Quote: Suddenly Aragorn leapt to hid feet. 'How the wind howls!' he cried. 'It is howling with wolf-voices. The Wargs have come west of the Mountains!'

... 'My heart's right down in my toes, Mr. Pippin,' said Sam. 'But we aren't eten yet, and there are some stout folk here with us. Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf's belly.'

... Gandalf stood up and strode forward, holding his staff aloft. 'Listen, Hound of Sauron!' he cried. 'Gandalf is here. Fly, if you value your foul skin! I will shrivel you from tail to snout, if you come within this ring.'

... No trace of the fight remained but the charred trees and the arrows of Legolas lying on the hill-top. All were undamaged save one of which only the point was left.

The above are just a few of the memorable lines from the encounter which can be found early in Chapter 4 entitled 'A Journey in the Dark', Book II, of FOTR.______________________________________________

Of course that display and my preceding post were not in The Hobbit; however we were talking about magic here. The burning of the wolves in The Hobbit can be found on Chapter 6 entitled 'Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire', and occurred just before the Goblins sang:

Quote:Fifteen birds in five firtrees,their feathers were fanned in a fiery breeze!

Grondmaster has made 25465 posts and is a Dwarf from Glittering Caves and has sailed into the West.
Posted Wednesday 31st December 1969 (07:00pm)

Quote:Maby I'm dense or maby I just missed something:

~I never quite understood about the sign that Gandalf scratched on Bilbo's door that suddenly disappeared and left no trace...

Can someone explain this to me? I can't remeber what it said~

Did he use magic to put a sign on the door or use magic to erase a regular sign? Or what?

The sign Gandalf, on the first morning, scratched on Bilbo's round green front door meant: "Burglar wants a good job, plenty of Excitement and reasonable Reward." So Gloin later told Bilbo. He also said the words Expert Treasure-hunter can replace Burglar if he wished.

When Gandalf rapped on Bilbo's door with his staff the second morning, in accompaniment of the remainder of the Dwarves, he also was knocking out the secret mark (probably just making it illegible).

I found the above in The Hobbit on the pages 6, 18, and 10 respectively.

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