Before the season began I remember discussion about whether people would trade JO for either D. Howard or Bosh. Now that the season is underway I'm curious to see if people's opinions on this have changed.

For my poll, I just want people to rate the three players, disregarding contracts. The questions is merely, "who would you rather have on your team?"

Isaac

11-28-2006, 04:22 PM

1.) Dwight
2.) Jermaine
3.) Bosh

It's pretty easy for me. I think Dwight's offensive game is continuing to progress, and he is so big and athletic. He's getting smarter too, and he's younger. I think we will see a few 23/15 seasons from Dwight.

JO does in fact get more assissts and such. But as a complete player I would take Bosh over the rest, as of now. Give me Howard overall. And JO with a solid defensive 5, 4 years ago

Isaac

11-28-2006, 04:45 PM

:yuck: private poll.

Bosh is simply not better then Jermaine. Bosh is a better outside shooter, and a slightly better rebound, but Jermaine is miles better defensively, and better in the low post. Jermaine also has always had a lot more scorers around him then Bosh. Put Jermaine in Bosh's situation and JO scores just as much if not more.

Trader Joe

11-28-2006, 04:48 PM

Right this second? JO, Bosh, Howard. For the future? Howard, Bosh, JO.

Bball

11-28-2006, 05:00 PM

:yuck: private poll.

Bosh is simply not better then Jermaine. Bosh is a better outside shooter, and a slightly better rebound, but Jermaine is miles better defensively, and better in the low post. Jermaine also has always had a lot more scorers around him then Bosh. Put Jermaine in Bosh's situation and JO scores just as much if not more.

But could anyone argue that CB or Howard have peaked? They are both already in the sphere of argument that they are better than JO and I don't think anyone would argue they have peaked yet. But can it be argued that JO hasn't crested yet? I suppose you could argue that JO still has the 'lightbulb game' in front of him where he becomes a smarter player and thus more complete and effective. But physically, I think what we see is what we get. And I am getting less hopeful by the hour that JO will ever have that lightbulb game.

-Bball

Diamond Dave

11-28-2006, 05:05 PM

1)Bosh 2)Howard 3)JO

Bosh is statistically better, and doesn't bog down his team with insisting that he get the ball 85% of the time he is on the floor.

Howard is the player teams are having to deal with now, and won't be able to deal with in the future.

Slick Pinkham

11-28-2006, 05:39 PM

Howard, Bosh, Okafor, JO

Destined4Greatness

11-28-2006, 05:39 PM

JO might be the best. Although the other two may be producing more in the post.

Peck

11-28-2006, 06:22 PM

1. Howard
2. Bosh
3. Okafur

I'm not sure Drew Gooden shouldn't be on par with J.O. but I know people would have a hissy over that so I'll list J.O. at 4. But I think Drew is a close 5th.

Quis

11-28-2006, 07:01 PM

Howard, Bosh, JO.

Wasn't a difficult decision for me. Bosh is easily a better player than JO in my opinion, at this point. He still has upside, and he's just a better all-around player. Bosh is so versatile and can take pretty much beat ANY big man in the league with that quick first step. And here's the most important thing about Bosh - he can have a big effect on his team even when he's not playing well. He doesn't need the ball every single time, and before you know it he has 20/10. He is also developing some great leadership skills and becoming more vocal with teammates. And he is not just "slightly" better at rebounding than JO. He's far better.

But Howard takes the cake. He is pretty much everything I like in a big man.

Sorry, but it takes more than what? 12 games? For me to declare Bosh a better rebounder than JO. JO was better last year, and he'll probably end up better again this year. And it was very convientant of you to leave out defense. Bosh may be the better scorer, but he gives it all back on the defensive end where he's one of the worst post defenders in recent history.

Destined4Greatness

11-28-2006, 07:05 PM

JO might have been better but not significantly, and Bosh is Improving, JO is hardly improving.

Slick Pinkham

11-30-2006, 04:52 PM

I think Howard will have a 30-30 game, and it may be this year. The 30 boards might be easier for him than the 30 points.

JO does in fact get more assissts and such. But as a complete player I would take Bosh over the rest, as of now. Give me Howard overall. And JO with a solid defensive 5, 4 years ago

Actually, Bosh is averaging only 20 points a game, not 28. Also, he has never once this season gotten more blocks in a single game than JO is averaging this year. And for all the complaining about JO's FG%, Bosh is only beating him by one thousandth of a point.

The Hustler

11-30-2006, 05:54 PM

i just cant decide! ... 2 hard!

Just

11-30-2006, 06:22 PM

1. Howard
2. Bosh
3. Okafur

I'm not sure Drew Gooden shouldn't be on par with J.O. but I know people would have a hissy over that so I'll list J.O. at 4. But I think Drew is a close 5th.

C'mon, Peck. You might not like JO, but you don't have to be silly about it.

You guys/gals going on potential . . . remember Bender? Not only did he not reach it, he's not playing anymore. You have to rate guys today, because they might not be playing tomorrow.

Anthem

11-30-2006, 10:44 PM

C'mon, Peck. You might not like JO, but you don't have to be silly about it.
:D He isnt being silly... that is his honest opinion.

quiller

12-01-2006, 01:53 AM

Hmmm I don't know the main problem I have in this poll is I really haven't had a chance to watch either Bosh or Howard play much. I've seen JO play a lot and frankly bassed upon the recent game between Bosh and JO.. JO clearly outplayed Bosh, I know Bosh got a lot of stats but JO clearly outplayed him and was much more dominate on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball... our run back into the game basically ended when JO left the game and was obviously hurting when he came back into the game. I watched and he had trouble moving... I frankly was upset that Rick didn't take him out with five minutes...

Going into this season I really didn't have Howard over JO yet either but I think from what I am hearing from others Howard has stepped up the physical nature of his game being more aggresive, still have not seen him play defense like JO does nigth in night out... still I have no real argument for those picking him over JO... but Bosh over JO.. from what I have seen no way....

Quis

12-01-2006, 09:13 AM

Offense
O'Neal: 8/10
Bosh: 8/10
Howard: 7/10

Defense
O'Neal: 10/10
Bosh: 5/10
Howard: 7/10

Rebounding
O'Neal: 7/10
Bosh: 9/10
Howard: 10/10

Average
O'Neal: 8.3
Bosh: 7.3
Howard: 8

Right now I've got JO slightly ahead of Howard due to his superior all-around game, and Bosh a fairly distant third due to the fact that he's a very poor defender. Howard will almost certainly surpass JO within the next season or two, but until Bosh can defend his shadow he'll remain third on my list.

FlavaDave

12-01-2006, 09:37 AM

:D He isnt being silly... that is his honest opinion.

The correct answer is that he is being silly AND that is his honest opinion.

Slick Pinkham

12-01-2006, 09:53 AM

The correct answer is that he is being silly AND that is his honest opinion.

That's my honest opinion too, and I'm not being silly, and I said it before Peck.

Okafor is improving rapidly and has almost caught up with Jermaine and is about to pass him by.

He is already a better rebounder, way higher percentage shooter, blocks about the same, has a more athletic build so that he isn't pushed off the blocks, and he is several years younger. The only knock is his TERRIBLE free throw shooting and limited range. Funny me, I don't mind it if my best inside player can't jack up 18-footers all day long.

Now JO might have a slight edge, but the rate of improvement for Okafor puts him way above Jermaine in value.

That's my honest opinion too, and I'm not being silly, and I said it before Peck.

Okafor is improving rapidly and has almost caught up with Jermaine and is about to pass him by.

...

"I'm not sure Drew Gooden shouldn't be on par with J.O."

:alcohol:

Slick Pinkham

12-01-2006, 10:14 AM

Yeah, the part from Peck about Gooden was pretty goofy. Cleveland wasn't sure if they wanted him back at any cost, and he's been passed around the league so much you know there are some issues.

But I'm with him on the Okafor evaluation.

:buddies:

able

12-01-2006, 10:20 AM

Since the "talk" (thank you Conrad)

"Jermaine O'Neal has five double-doubles and three 20-10 games in the last seven, averaging 21.9 points, 10.3 rebounds, 3.9 assists, 3.57 blocks and shooting .505 from the field (54-of-107)."

Who was ahead of him ?

P.S. the team is also 5-2 since that same talk.

coincidence ?

Just

12-01-2006, 10:24 AM

Since the "talk" (thank you Conrad)

"Jermaine O'Neal has five double-doubles and three 20-10 games in the last seven, averaging 21.9 points, 10.3 rebounds, 3.9 assists, 3.57 blocks and shooting .505 from the field (54-of-107)."

Who was ahead of him ?

:-o

Dude's an MVP candiate if he keeps that up... and I think he can...

Quis

12-01-2006, 10:25 AM

JO's passed up Emeka Okafor for the league lead in blocks per game. I'd love to see him make a run for DPOY, but his sub-great rebounding will probably prevent ity from ever happening.

Peck

12-01-2006, 12:37 PM

Like I said, I put J.O. above Gooden because I knew you people would have a hissy fit. I put him up there & your haveing the hissy fit anyway, so for the purpose of my thought I bring you the following

Furthermore, one of the two of these players is the single biggest contributer of offense to his team, meaning he touches the ball on almost every possesion while the other one has to try & find offense while not only not being the # 1 option but not even being option # 2.

So with that in mind is JermaInes 3 more baskets a game in ten more min. really that impressive?

Is he really truely that much better than Gooden? Stats don't say that, although I will agree stats don't make a player.

Let's talk about shot blocking for a min. then can we? Shawn Bradley was a great shot blocker, did that make him a great defender?

JermaIne is a wonderfull shot blocker, the best the Pacers have ever had, but IMO he is a poor low post defender. He gets moved off the block easily & frankly has never been one to really cherish physical contact anyway.

Now given my recent posting regarding JermaIne I can see where you all think this is just me using hyperbole.

But go back & re-read what I wrote. I never once said that I thought Gooden was better. I just said I wasn't sure if he wasn't on par with him & IMO based on the above I don't know how you can just easily scoff at the idea.

Oh, not that this should be a consideration in listing players by how good they are but...

JermaIne O'Neal $18,084,000.00 this season

Drew Gooden $6,600,000.00 this season

Is JermaIne really 3 times better than Gooden? Again, the stats don't show that.

Jon Theodore

12-01-2006, 12:38 PM

1. Howard
2. Bosh
3. Okafur

I'm not sure Drew Gooden shouldn't be on par with J.O. but I know people would have a hissy over that so I'll list J.O. at 4. But I think Drew is a close 5th.

Drew Gooden is easily as good as Jermaine. Drew Gooden is a good player and so is Jermaine, but Bosh/Howard are out of Jermaines league.

Jermaines rebounding is not very good, if he had 3-4 more rebounds a game he would be considered an elite player to me. I don't care about his blocks, because even foster has been blocking this year. That is a result of the pacers defensive scheme. Also, I wish I had a dollar for everytime I saw Tinsley or one of our guards pull a rebound and JO in the area snatch it from them...only to give it RIGHT BACK just so he gets the board. His 9 rebounds a game isn't even legitimate if you ask me. I'd say he earns 6-7 rebounds a game.
I love you pecks.

And listen guys, when Jermaine goes 20-10 for 3 out of 7 games that is no reason to jump for joy. At his pay, 20-10 should be a given every single night.

DisplacedKnick

12-01-2006, 04:49 PM

Disregarding everything else, two of those players have played over 70 games each of the last 2 seasons. I could switch my first 2 but the player with injury problems is a lock at third for me.

Quis

12-01-2006, 09:08 PM

Disregarding everything else, two of those players have played over 70 games each of the last 2 seasons. I could switch my first 2 but the player with injury problems is a lock at third for me.

It figures a Knicks fan would like the guy who doesn't play a lick of defense. :-p

kidthecat

12-01-2006, 10:21 PM

Drew Gooden is easily as good as Jermaine. Drew Gooden is a good player and so is Jermaine, but Bosh/Howard are out of Jermaines league.

Jermaines rebounding is not very good, if he had 3-4 more rebounds a game he would be considered an elite player to me. I don't care about his blocks, because even foster has been blocking this year. That is a result of the pacers defensive scheme. Also, I wish I had a dollar for everytime I saw Tinsley or one of our guards pull a rebound and JO in the area snatch it from them...only to give it RIGHT BACK just so he gets the board. His 9 rebounds a game isn't even legitimate if you ask me. I'd say he earns 6-7 rebounds a game.
I love you pecks.

And listen guys, when Jermaine goes 20-10 for 3 out of 7 games that is no reason to jump for joy. At his pay, 20-10 should be a given every single night.

Lost all credibility when you said Drew Puddin' was as good as JO.

Despite having two injury-ridden years, Jermaine O'Neal is still the best big man in the eastern conference, including Shaq. His post game is miles ahead of Howard and Bosh. Rebounding is questionable, but it will be around ten like it always is.

Jon Theodore

12-01-2006, 10:56 PM

i didn't know you had to have credibility to state an opinion. Jermaine is a little bit better than Drew Gooden, but the difference is marginal.

Gooden is just as good offensively without a doubt, put Lebron on this team and see if Jermaine averages the same amount of points. Jermaine is a little girl on defense who just blocks guards that runi/tins can't guard. Jermaines high number of blocks do not impress me that much. Put anybody who is 7 feet tall in the middle with Runi/Tins playing defense and they will get a lot of blocks. Foster has been blocking this season....case closed.

I'd love to be all excited about Jermaines game like the rest of you, but I am simply aware that it is the same old Jermaine. He finds a way to get his stats, but he never really "wins" us games. Last year we had AJ at point guard who is a very good defender, hence less penetration from small guards who jermaine can block. Nothing has changed except for we have point guards who do not play defense.

I know saying Gooden is as good as Jermaine is extreme, but hey PECK said it...I just agreed.

Just

12-02-2006, 03:22 AM

Like I said, I put J.O. above Gooden because I knew you people would have a hissy fit. I put him up there & your haveing the hissy fit anyway, so for the purpose of my thought I bring you the following

Now given my recent posting regarding JermaIne I can see where you all think this is just me using hyperbole.

But go back & re-read what I wrote. I never once said that I thought Gooden was better. I just said I wasn't sure if he wasn't on par with him & IMO based on the above I don't know how you can just easily scoff at the idea.

Oh, excuse me for questioning your judgement. Obviously I was having a "hissy fit." :rolleyes:

If Gooden were anywhere near JO's level, then the Cavs would be one scary-*** team. Instead, they're just the Cleveland LeBrons.

It's almost like your blaming JO for being good enough to be our #1 option. You make Gooden that #1 option for some team, and his game and stats are gonna flounder, whereas JO is good enough and talented enough to pull it off. The two aren't even close.

DisplacedKnick

12-02-2006, 08:47 AM

It figures a Knicks fan would like the guy who doesn't play a lick of defense. :-p

Already said I'd put JO last.

Or are you saying his defense is good when he's on the bench in a suit?

J_2_Da_IzzO

12-02-2006, 04:34 PM

i didn't know you had to have credibility to state an opinion. Jermaine is a little bit better than Drew Gooden, but the difference is marginal.

Gooden is just as good offensively without a doubt, put Lebron on this team and see if Jermaine averages the same amount of points. Jermaine is a little girl on defense who just blocks guards that runi/tins can't guard. Jermaines high number of blocks do not impress me that much. Put anybody who is 7 feet tall in the middle with Runi/Tins playing defense and they will get a lot of blocks. Foster has been blocking this season....case closed.

I'd love to be all excited about Jermaines game like the rest of you, but I am simply aware that it is the same old Jermaine. He finds a way to get his stats, but he never really "wins" us games. Last year we had AJ at point guard who is a very good defender, hence less penetration from small guards who jermaine can block. Nothing has changed except for we have point guards who do not play defense.

I know saying Gooden is as good as Jermaine is extreme, but hey PECK said it...I just agreed.

Your post is beyond stupid. How can you not 'care' about his blocks. What kinda **** is that? Thats like me saying I dont care about his points or his rebounds.

And to say he only gets a lot of blocks because Tinsley and Runi are the point guards cemented your post as void. He not only blocks guards, he blocks all type of players. An example of this is for instance blocking the Chris Bosh dunk attempt few games back.

Your post is telling me that if he didnt block those players and he just stood and watched them score you wouldnt mind because its not something you 'care' about.

J_2_Da_IzzO

12-02-2006, 04:38 PM

And Fosters averaging 0.8 blocks a game this year so your analysis that even Foster is getting blocks this year is not exactly a strong case.