What kills a marriage quicker: A physical affair or an emotional one?

When I heard Karan Johar say on television that there is a distinction between a physical affair and being in love, and that he didn’t ‘consider physical infidelity as infidelity in the larger sense of the word’ and that a physical affair sometimes ‘gives you a new rigor in your relationship,’ I couldn’t help wondering how many people believed this.

Was this just what the bold and the beautiful jet-setting crowd believed (heck, I should start reading page 3!) or was this what normal middle class people believed?

In a survey conducted by Kamasutra in India, all those interviewed said they believed in “trust and sexual integrity” as being essential in a marriage, BUT at the same time, 35 percent of them admitted to cheating!!

Whether this survey reflects reality in India or not I don’t know…but these findings certainly match with international findings.

90 percent of Americans believe that adultery is immoral, but many as 37 percent of men and 22 percent of women admit to having affairs! Even in Britain, it is a similar story, and in Canada too.

So infidelity (both physical and emotional) is the human condition…? And wasn’t Karan Johar simply stating something that most don’t dare to? But he had made a distinction between a physical affair and an emotional one.

Physical affair vs. an emotional affair
I am no expert, and wanted to get to the meaning of this ‘difference’ between ‘physical infidelity’ and ‘emotional fidelity’ because to my mind there is a thin line between the two, if any exists at all. As everyone knows what a physical affair is, let me move on to a definition of an emotional affair. I found it here:

An emotional affair is when a person not only invests more of their emotional energy outside their marriage, but also receives emotional support and companionship from the new relationship…In an emotional affair, a person feels closer to the other party and may experience increasing sexual tension…cheaters are often guilt-free in an emotional affair because there is no sex involved

Emotional affairs are relationships that involve considerable emotional intimacy. Not every affair involves sex. These ARE still affairs.

An emotional affair usually progresses from a platonic friendship, and a platonic friendship can develop into an emotional affair if there is a sexual attraction between the couple. A danger sign is if they start excluding others, and start keeping their meetings secret…

So, a platonic friendship can lead to an emotional affair. And an emotional affair can lead to a physical one.

On the other hand, a physical affair is just that…purely physical. Does that make it less hurtful? Okay to brush under the carpet?
There is a very simple way to find out. Just ask your partner. Chances are that the answer will be no, because if one party in a committed relationship has a physical affair, even if it is a one-night stand, it raises some questions in the mind of the other party:

How many times has this happened before? Am I not physically attractive? Will he or she do it again?Am I really loved? If it happens again, couldn’t it lead to love? How can I ever trust my partner again? Why can’t I do it too?

This is precisely why people want to brush a physical sexual transgression under the carpet! It can damage a relationship irrevocably and set the couple on a path of no return.

In fact, it may well be easier to forgive your partner for having an emotional affair rather than a physical one…the guilty party has shown restraint and held back physical desire inspite of being in love. And there is also more trust as people don’t fall in love too often, not in most cases. No, I am not saying that an emotional affair is not dangerous to a marriage. Its awfully risky because the next step could be a decision to call off the marriage. Something that may not happen in the case of a purely physical affair.

But does that mean that those who have physical affairs should treat it casually and hide such liaisons from their partners? I am sure this happens all the time, but to my mind it tells of a poor relationship between the couple.

If a person who has had a physical affair had to be brutally honest, this is what he would be saying to his partner in an imaginary conversation:

I, me and myself am more important to me than you, and if I don’t tell you about what I have done to satisfy my desires, you will never know how much I love myself, and how much a slave I am to my own needs. My needs are more important than yours, but as you will never understand that, I have decided not to tell you about my affairs, because they aren’t really affairs….I am doing this because I love you and I want our partnership to go on. There are benefits to this alliance, and while I admit that some of these benefits accrue to me too, its you I am thinking of. You don’t want this marriage to break up do you…

Sounds confusing to me…! So while emotional affairs can lead to a total break-down of a marriage, physical affairs if not confessed are a hallmark of an unhealthy and dishonest relationship. But if they are confessed, the relationship may be over forever! Which is better…? Well, it is really an individual decision to make and it depends on the attitude of the one who cheats…whether he intends to cheat again, whether he feels remorse…its impossible to make any sort of judgment on individual situations. But I feel its important for cheating partners to stop fooling themselves that what they are doing is alright or not telling is okay, and its also time they stopped deluding themselves that they have a ‘happy’ marriage.

Many put happy mask just to show off.. we have lot of fear factor involved while taking an EXIT from relationship.. I mean w.r.t. Society n family members.. that’s why they choose to be dishonest.. If true-love exists b/w two then I don’t think physical or emotional intimacies gonna be issue.. I have put “Food for thought” on similar topic w.r.t relationship on my blog.. http://thelovebook.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/food-for-thought-think-of-this/

Well, this happens when a relationship becomes stale. It underscores the fact that marriage is an artificial construct of the human mind, deviced originally as a means to keep man civilised and as an attempt to curb his rapacious nature.
However, the psycho-physiological changes that occur with age (and they could occur in either sex) could stimulate extra-marital tendencies. It is because people are unable to accept the consequences of their action that the whole big drama of illicit affairs starts. If they did, they could carry on afresh, together or separately (as per the couple’s choice).

There are other things that break a marriage/ relationship faster and more irretrievably such as – lack of respect, disjoint in values, sense of power imbalance, different goals, different evolutionary and personal growth trajectories for the two people.

There is only one thing that makes a marriage – non-negotiable commitment.

Amit, you raised an interesting point! I found a link which said that the French actually don’t cheat much! Either the Frenchmen were lying (I came across a site which said frenchmen were liars!!!) or they simply broke up the relationship…so there was no question of cheating! Or as the article goes on to say the French believe that such things should be lied about. Oddly, even the Japanese think that way! Its the discovery of an affair which is outrageous, not the actual affair.
I guess Americans are far more open.
40% of Russians were okay with adultery, seeing it as inevitable and about half of the Russian men and about a quarter of the women admitted to adultery!
Adultery is also quite common in Africa and Latin America…

Rambodoc, there are surveys which say that monogamy is not a natural state…but the optimist that I am I prefer to think we can evolve.🙂

I can’t recall the name of the movie in which an American, caught in flagrante delicto with a married French woman and manouvred into lock-up by her husband on some other pretext, tries to plead his case with the arresting officer, explaining “the real story” man-to-man. The policeman remarks, with an unsympathetic sneer, “To be with a woman, that’s French. To be caught with her, that’s American!”

Jokes apart, your discovery that the French don’t cheat much does not come as a surprise. Their reputation as philanderers is quite undeserved.

Here’s a real life example in America. The couple married for love (which is the norm in America), had 2 beautiful children – after 3 to 4 years, the guy had a physical affair with a mother of 6 children. I don’t know if there was an emotional one too. The wife was very upset and wanted a divorce. The husband was upset about this decision. Now they are divorced and living happily (I assume) sharing custody of their children. So whatever affair a spouse may have, it is definitely going to upset the other spouse unless the other spouse is a saint! And like Shefaly said, lack of respect, abuse etc. also contributes to affairs.

their many reasons why a person will have an afair, but deep down they know that they are wrong for what ever reason they have and have a chance to get out before it’s to late…..the
problem is they just don’t care about the next person or its consequences.

wishtobeanon, its delicate balance isn’t it, but I guess in America the couple will think of their own happiness over that of their kids, and I am not sure whether that is wrong. Overall though one should give it one’s best shot.

Bharath, what you said about the mask is so true…and I feel that kids can see through it. I wonder which is worse, kids living in a house where there is no love between parents, or kids living with their parents divorced.

Yes Nita, Kids have major impact & that’s what making them to give less respect to their own family members n relatives.. By the time they realise it’s importance, it becomes either too late or very hard to mingle again.. Lot of things have changed.. True value of our indian culture is almost no more.. especially in Urban India… That’s what my Daadi(grandmma) use to say..

She use to say.. “You people are too fast”.. “forget others.. do you have time for yourselves”.. “Save time for wife n kids atleast”

Very interesting. They are both, of course, not good for a marriage. I’ve read in some magazine here in the U.S. that an emotional affair for a woman can be even more impactful then a physical one. And the key question is: are you doing a behavior that you’d hide from your spouse

Mark, thanks for visiting and you are right, the key question is that! Its the hiding thats bad!

I think both can be equally damaging. One of the main aspects of an affair is betrayal and both would be a point of betrayal.

The other point of a physical affair that you didn’t bring up is disease. No matter how careful you are, you are still risking getting a disease and giving it to your spouse (unless sex isn’t part of the marriage). Or risking getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant.

I know couples that are OK with physical affairs, but they discuss it ahead of time and it’s agreed that the affairs will be physical only. I don’t think it’s something I’d be comfortable with, but I can see how it works for them and I respect that they’re adult enough about it to talk about it in the open and agree to the type of relationship they have rather than going behind each other’s back.

If you’re worried about your spouse leaving you over an affair, then you shouldn’t have the affair. If your marriage is that important why should your spouse have to compromise for your actions? The only reason people don’t tell their spouses about their affairs (or have affairs in the first place) is because they are selfish. If you believed honestly that you weren’t doing anything wrong by your spouse why would you need to keep it secret?

As for emotional affairs, if you’re investing yourself more into someone else than your spouse, how are you still married by anything other than law? Marriage isn’t just living in the same house and saying that you’re married to each other. It’s much more. It requires an investment from both people, and at the very least, mutual respect.

// there are surveys which say that monogamy is not a natural state…but the optimist that I am I prefer to think we can evolve. :)//

really? myabe
the drok pa tribes in ladakn or the tribes in papua or in amazon or the vedic period believed in sharing —
in the modern times however if this is allowed std and sida will surely help in bringing human population under control

Ordinary Girl, you have brought out a very interesting point about disease. Yes, that is a huge problem! Also I like the way you said:
//If you believed honestly that you weren’t doing anything wrong by your spouse why would you need to keep it secret?//
Thats really it.
And if a couple has an ‘open’ marriage which you mentioned, well, at least they are not cheating! Not that anyone will believe that their is an ideal relationship!

Prax, I am not sure I understood your point.

Amit, as you guessed rightly I am not sure whether polygamy is in our genes or not. True, the institution of marriage seems to be falling apart in some countries…but I feel that is because of misguided notions about ‘love.’
But one thing is for sure, whether polygamy is ingrained in humans or not, our social structure will collapse if everyone has several partners and children from each union. Perhaps society will find a way to solve that problem too…but if you ask me, I don’t think the institution of marriage or values of trust and integrity will ever be considered passe.

Firstly….i think its relevant to define some intrinsic differences between how men and women percieve relationships and sex. I do generalise here, but from anecdotal and conversational experience, I think this is a relatively fair and contextual generalisation to make.

Men, for evolutionary, biological, hormonal, phychological and other reasons…..tend to conceptualise the act of sex as having two distinct components – the physical and the emotional. While there is often significant cross-over and intermeshing btwn these 2 components…..as in when a man makes love to a partner he loves and has an emotional bond with….it is also true that often a man is able to view sex as having a distinct physical component, i.e. without the context of emotion/love. This explains why men like viewing random acts of sex in pornography, where there is clearly no emotional connection with the scene or characters involved…but it appeals to the more primal, physical, hormonal aspect to a mans sexuality.

Women on the other hand, tend to conceptualise sex with a far more blurred blend of the physical/hormonal component and the emotional/love component. Yes, there are times when almost every woman will purely crave or enjoy the physical aspect of sex, and there also many women who do subconsciously frequenty seek out the physical hormonal element of satisfaction from sex….but i think its fair to say that in general, women view sex as a far more emotional activity than men do. This is perhaps even more true for women from more traditional societies, like India, where social conditioning has rendered most woment to associate the act of sex very deeply with an emotional relationship with their husband. This also explains why in general, women are not turned on by male porn….in fact, studies have shown that male porn is more enjoyed by homosexuals, rather than women.

Ok, given the two assumptions, my next observation is that often when a man cheats, it is purely for sex, i.e. to satisfy the physical craving. This becomes a physical affair. Yes, men also indulge in emotional affairs…but because for most men the physical component of sex is a distinct one and needs nourishment independently, it could be argued that a healthy proportion of male initiated affairs are physical ones. Anecdotally, many middle aged men indulge in affairs with younger women who perhaps offer them a more sexually gratifying experience than their equally middle aged wife, with whom some level of monotony might have been reached.

When a women commits adultry, i.e. has sex with another man, then chances are, she is experiencing some emotional void in the existing relationship, which the adultry partner is able to satisfy. Of course, many female initiated acts of adultry do involve just pure meaningless, no-emotions attached sex, but I daresay that it is far less incidental than for men-initiated affairs.

Now…let us not confuse an emotional affair as not involving any sex…cos then its not really an affair is it. If a person happens to develop an emotional bond with someone else apart from their partner, no matter how intimate that bond might be, if it doesn;t result in sex, how can that relationship be termed an affair. Surely the whole institution of marriage and the perception of a committed relationship btwn 2 ppl doesn;t preclude any party from having a purely emotional connection with anyone else????? Leading on from this, we can assume that even an emotional affair does involve sex, although the drivers for the act of sex are vastly different from a physical affair.

Now comes the issues of which format of adultry is more forgivable and condonable, by the victim in the relationship, i.e. the one who has been “cheated” on. I’d think that all other factors being equal, its surely more easy to forgive your partner for having strayed purely for physical reasons…..than a scenario where they have developed an intimate emotional connection with someone else as well as developed a physical relationship with them. Its obvious that a physical relationship is more superficial than an emotional one, and easiert to develop as well as break off.

A purely physical affair does NOT imply that the cheating partner does not still LOVE his/her partner…it means that the chating person is willing to have sex with someone else, and selfish/superficial as that might be, as long as they do genuinely still love their spouse, i suppose there’s soemthiugn to be said for that. On the other hand…someone who faces an emotional void in their existing relationship and ends up developing an emotional and physical relationship with someone else….that doesn;t exactyly convey that the relationship with the spouse (the one cheated on) has much emotional strength left in it, does it???

Not at all trying to justify adultry….as men we’re all too happy at the though of having lots of beautiful sexual partners….but lets be honest..no man can stand the thought of his wife having an affair either…therein lies the male hypocricy.

Phantom, thanks for taking the trouble to pen down your thoughts. Much appreciated. Your point about more women feeling the emotive side of a relationship is true I think, although what you said is also true, that there are exceptions.
However it is possible to have an emotionally intimate relationship with someone else (without sex) and this could be termed as betrayal. A wife or a partner is not just there to satisfy the sexual need (as you are also mentioned) and therefore if any component is taken away, whether the physical one, or the emotional one, it can hurt. Its not even deep friendships we are talking about here, but emotional intimacy. Look, suppose you have a best friend (male) and you are extremely close to him and you want to go out to have a beer together and another guy joins in, it will be fine, right? Same with girls. It may happen that you could go out together alone, and there are times when you want to talk to him privately, but overall you will never avoid the company of anyone else. What happens in an emotional affair is that you don’t want anyone else. You want to be together with that person, could be a colleague from work whom you meet in the evening after work…time which could have been spent with the wife. In fact in an emotional affair, the emotional connection is greater with the other than with the wife or partner.

I am from the old school of thought Nita. I don’t think betrayal is acceptable in a marriage, physical or emotional. I don’t think men will accept if their wife cheated on them. Wives sometimes are forced to accept the straying because of family pressures but left to their own I don’t think they will accept it. If one wants that sort of freedom then why marry? Live in would be a better choice where you can walk out comparatively easily.
Agree with you a hundred percent Prerna! – Nita.

I have known a number of couples (both hetero- and homosexual) in live-in relationships, and have found them to have simila levels of mutual commitment, fidelity and trust as couples in successful marriages. I can assure you such relationships do not necessarily imply the freedom of extramutual casual flings. They may be easy to walk out of from a legalistic point of view, but emotionally they tend to be binding and rock-solid — often more so than legally accepted marriages.

Vivek – while it’s true that lots of live-in couples do share a very deep emotional and physical bond, as much or more than a marriage….it is also true that lots of live-in couples split up after some time. I doubt if there is any emperical evidence to suggest that one format is more long-lasting than the other. However my feeling is that the live-in arrangement does provide more emotional room for bailing out.

Like it or not, the act and institution of marriage is globally percieved as a relatively permanent arrangement. While the western societies might see far more divorce, even they view marriage as an event that marks some level of permanance.

Put it this way – virtually no couple commences a marriage with any thoughts whatsoever of splitting up down the track , if in the future divorce does occur, it is a function of changign curcumstances trough time.

However, in a live-in arrangement, there isn’t much implication of permanance, more an expression of the desire to enjoy the present.

Given this relatively less intense degree of emotional permanance in live-in relationships…one could argue that there is less incidence of emotional affairs….as if someone is facing an emotional void in the relationship, and have found someone else to fill that gap…then they can just as easily move out of the current live-in relationship, as there isn’t much holding them back, whereas in a marriage, there is the social conditioning of wanting to preserve face in community, avoiding the taboo of a divorce, providing a stable home for the kids etc…..i.e. resulting in a affair.

I liked the sensitivity of your post. The title at first suggested it may use generalizations to transgress the line beyond which generalizations are not generally useful🙂, but it was heartening to see that your actual post didn’t cross any such lines.

Talking of generalizations, Mark Richardson and Phantom’s comments can lead to another interesting follow-up post: Are women more hurt by emotional affairs than physical ones, and vice versa for men?

I am not too sure about non-negotiable commitment as being the only one thing that makes a marriage. There are many kinds of marriages that may be based on negotiated terms, even regarding commitment. Marriages where there is an inherent imbalance between the spouses regarding wealth, age, physical handicap, terminal illness, status/race/nationality in conditions of war, etc., often lead to situations where one party has to choose between not-marrying at all, or dying, or living without sex, OR negotiating the terms of the marriage. We can’t simply dismiss such marriages as not having any basis or not being real marriages.

Probably I’m taking a much wider angle of marriage than you intended, Nita, but forgive me for using your blog title as license!🙂 My point is, I would focus more on total transparency that inspires trust, rather than non-negotiable commitment. Transparency (a word not used in the entire thread so far) is the only thing that can lead to trust. “Stopping fooling themselves”, as your post mentions, is of course, a prerequisite for transparency.

Mahendra, thats a very tough question, who is more hurt by emotional affairs, men or women! Definitely something to chew on. Specially difficult for people like me to answer because I find the line between an emotional affair and a physical one an absolute blur…!
and about the negotiable thing, well thats a good point but i don’t think that anyone a romantic idea of marriage being an union of love will agree with that! I believe in live and let live, so if a couple is happy with a certain arrangement its great, but in my heart of hearts I will wonder what sort of a marriage they have? But yes, I agree that transparency and honesty is the hallmark of a strong relationship and an honest relationship certainly is more happy than a dishonest one where partners are hiding their affairs.

At the risk of over generalisation – might be fair to conclude that in general, women tend to view relationships with a bigger emotive lens than men do….and this applies to the physical aspect of a relationship too.

I think finidng out that one’s spouse has had an emotional affair, can hurt men just as bad as women. Different issue that in most societies, esp traditional ones, women are perhaps not empowered enough to have enough internal strength to truly cope with such an event on their own, and get closure. Also a different issue that for most men, their ego often takes a hit more then it does for women….who probably tend to get genuinely hurt more intensely than men, i.e. ego is less relevant for women. Again, a huge generalisation, but ok for purposes of discussion i reckon.

Certainly for a man to find out that his woman has had a physical affair, can be emasculating and ego-bashing…..probbaly more so than for a women. But then, cos most women tend to view sex as being as emotional as it is physical, they would probably view a physical affair as an emotional betrayal as well, hence being emotionally affected by even a physical affair.

Nita – “Specially difficult for people like me to answer because I find the line between an emotional affair and a physical one an absolute blur…!” >>> probably cos as a women you will tend to view the physical aspect to a relationship as being almost synonymous with the emotive element of it….hence making it difficuly for you (or most women, in my experience and opinion) to visualise a scenario where one would want to have a purely physical relationship, without the emotional bonds that women tend to consider as, if not more, important witin a man-woman relaitonship.

Men on the other hand, are often clearly able to distinguish between the physical aspect of a relaitonship and the emotional side….hence allowing them to experience purely physical desires, leading to an indulgance of that specific desire.

No right or wrong here….just the difference btwn the way men and women view things.

Phantom, I guess there is a difference between the men and women approach affairs..
but if men are fooling around its a different thing, but when a man or a woman is truly and deeply in love, then I think that perhaps men can be as devastated. Maybe more. Ahhaa I can hear men already saying more more! Men do perceive themselves as the ideal lovers! That ego aspect you mentioned is important, yes. In fact it might even make them think they are the ideal lovers…that they love better and more truly! All this at the risk of generalizing! Sorry Mahendra!!
Let me go a step further and say that I prefer men who attach an emotional value to sex. I think such men are more refined and civlized. But then thats a personal choice and I think there are a lot of men like that. In fact the men I happen to know, whether its my brother, my dad or my husband, are emotionally sensitive men…
I don’t know much about the general populace…but ofcourse one reads about this so-called raw physical desire that men are supposed to have…! I guess only men can answer this question.
Earlier in this thread Amit had made a mention of social conditioning, couldn’t this aspect be influenced by social conditioning?

Well, There are people(exceptional) who donot follow the normal crowd(emotional) & they consider it as blind belief.. It’s like – Technology of Disbelief.. It’s like – You donot believe on Computer(Marriage) so you always maintain a backup… whenever something go wrong.. restore with back up.. and There is another term “paralell processing”…. I am sure you will laugh on this!

I am just adding this comment to say that this whole post of mine was copied by girl named Shilpa who has a blog on Sulekha. She even copied the picture!! She took credit for everything!!
I wrote a comment telling her to remove the post and have complained to Sulekha as well. Lets see what happens! Amazingly, she got 35 comments on the copied post!!
Its really creepy the number of cheats one has on the internet! Also amazing that her readers cannot figure out that the girl is a cheat.

I once found my entire poem plagiarized on a MySpace blog (found it via Technorati – I wasn’t using Copyscape then). I managed to get it removed without becoming a member of MySpace. You’ve got to fight for your rights…:-)

I have to say that I am researching emotional affairs since it has been brought to my attention that I am involved in one. I have been “close friends” with a married man for 8 years now. We had an instant attraction to each other and although we’ve never had sex, we have been very intimate with each other and kissed and touched more passionalty than anyone that I’ve ever been with. He tells me that I am his best friend and that I know more about him than his own wife. I am so torn right now because I know that I am in love with this man. Can this be a strong emotional bond between us or could it just be that the mystery of not having sex is so powerful that it keeps us coming back to each other for all this time. I have been told that if it were just about the sex that neither of us would invest so much time and energy into one another. But to me it is still a huge question. Are him and I soul mates and really in love with each other or is this just simply about sex? We tell each other everything. We have deep converstations about our personal lives. And we talk almost every single day. I wish someone could shed some light on this state of confussion!

Jennifer, an emotional need to be loved and cared for is a very important need, and that is being satisfied in your new relationship, so I do not think its about sex. Thats my opinion but I am not a counselor. You need to talk to one.
Also, I do not know the relationship with your present husband. How was it earlier? Was it similar to what you feel with this new person? If so, then the new relationship could go sour too…but really I am not an expert.
Whether this man is your soul mate is a question only you can answer, as only you know about the present circumstances of your life.
Jennifer, don’t take any hasty decision. Please talk it over with a professional, I mean your relationship with your present husband.

Nita,
Shefaly read me to this one looking at a small bit I wrote about infidelity.
Actually I would be lying if I say I do not care about physical infidelity if and when I do get into a relationship, but then most of the people including Karan Johar who talk about them, I dont think are qualified enough to make statements.
Like in my case, when I claim that infidelity is when a person in a relationship no longer things them as a team, and takes decision that makes one person happier.
I am not so sure, how would I react, when this really happens when I am in a relationship.

As far as emotional affairs go, do we really want to call it an affair?, I mean I would be more than happy to support a friend emotionally and also receive some from my friend when I am low, does it mean we are having an affair, does it mean people in relationships should not go to others for emotional solace? In most of these cases, the relationship we are talking about carries on from much before marriages, and in some cases it does start after marriage.

Actually once you are in a deep emotional relationship you will understand perfectly Rambler. You see, it is not at all a thin line if one is actually thinking of two people with whom one has a relationship. One a lover and the other a friend.
Taking your analogy further, if there is a thin line between the emotional closeness one feels in these two relationships, then there is no doubt that it is infidelity.
One does not mean occasional emotional support ofcourse…because giving emotional support to a stranger or even a friend during trying times is very different from sleeping with a stranger, as you yourself are aware.

Nita,
How does this work out in a deep friendship which people have much before the marriage, I mean when couple of people who have been very close emotionally, [believe me it can really happen without sexual intentions even amongst young twenty somethings].
Does it mean after marriage, its not good to continue the emotional relationship with the friend of opposite sex?.
Or will closeness automatically fade away after some time?

Rambler: I know Nita should be answering this but it is interesting to see this exchange.

You say: “..the emotional relationship with the friend of opposite sex?.”

My experience shows that this is _exactly_ what many Indian women and men do. They stop interacting with friends of the opposite gender. Which is very odd.

If they were really sexually interested in each other before one got married, they might have never married somebody else. I am firmly on the side that irrespective of gender, friendships are completely different a kettle of fish.

You may want to read Nita’s post on divorces – read the comments. People ‘coming out the closet’ after many years of marriage suggests to me that same-gender friendships are no guarantee of ‘safety’ either!

Anyone who looks for iron-cast guarantees in relationships is being foolhardy. People do not remain static entities. They grow. Personally, professionally, intellectually.

If their growth trajectories diverge, then it is unlikely that their original relationship remains unchanged. if one or both are unhappy there is no point keeping it going.

The question being asked here is a population level question which is not quite the right question because like ice crystals or snow flakes, each relationship is unique. When it breaks down, blaming outsiders is a fool’s game. It breaks down inside long before outsiders figure anywhere.

Shefaly,
As I cursiouly wait for Nita’s response to my queries, you brought up a nice topic for disucussion, I just hope Nita won’t mind us talking over at her place🙂

“My experience shows that this is _exactly_ what many Indian women and men do. They stop interacting with friends of the opposite gender. Which is very odd.”
Are you saying that they do before marriage/commitment and then stop altogether?

I have to admit my inexperience, and need to check how it goes ahead with couple of close relations I do have with same/opposite sex.

people are not static entities, so are relationships right?, I think I can safely say that if they are not they are going to break down,

I really don’t like the idea of friendships being viewed as treats/non treats to a marriage. I guess both the relationships are good enough to coexist and be independant of each other.

But I totally agree with you about blaming the outsider stuff.

P.S Rambler did have a statement to make about the age stuff on his random bantor over at this place😀

Rambler, sorry for replying late, was out of town.
Well, in my experience at least (and I have lived in India almost all of my life) people do tend to automatically start becoming a little distant from their closest friends (after marriage), whichever their sex. And btw I have noticed this amongst both men and women. In fact my neighbour (a guy) who was a bachelor and had developed very close friendships with guys of the same sex has his friends complaining when he got married. What happens is that if you are very close emotionally with your partner, the relationship takes up a lot of time, and automatically one tends to meet other friends, whatever the sex, less often. The closeness of very good friends might still surivive this ofcourse. but often this friendship takes the form of couples. for example my husband’s close friend now rarely meet him alone, we meet with family, with kids. and in a group there is always time for good friends to hang out, chat…and at times they all go out together. that’s the thing. In fact I had discussed this in a comment to Phantom, that in a platonic relationship one does not mind a group at all. It is rare that one is insistent on alone time…unless there is something specific to discuss. Girls with girls may have this need more…but a guy and a girl, well, it is rare that I see such a close friendship that the man and the woman who are both married (to different people) want to make time for themselves alone without anyone else. it would set alarm bells ringing, and yes even in western society. in fact a very good friend of my husband who is half english and now lives in the UK never meets my husband alone if he goes to London. She always brings her partner along, who is English. and they always had a platonic relationship…but even then.
Ofcourse, closeness does automatically decrease if one moves away.
but overall I find this being more sensitive about friendships with the opposite sex in western society. In India I find a lot of office friendships which are purely platonic. Western society I feel puts less value on friendship on the whole, and that society is completely geared towards romantic relationships. Not so here. Here if you walk into any office you will close friendships between people of the opposite sex, but ofcourse there is a line drawn. The minute you start making ‘dates’ the relationship changes, Being together casually is different, but specifically and deliberately choosing to go out alone, automatically changes the relationship into something deeper.
p.s. if the two are in another romantic relationship with different people, this can create problems, not otherwise.

I posted the above comment and read your response Rambler.
Well, I am not sure that I agree with that….about people stopping interactions with the opposite sex after marriage. It depends on how close they are. I know many girl-friends too who start to drift apart after marriage.
In any case, if there is a family or a couple it is very unlikely that they will go their separate ways during week-ends.. something like…hey my college friend is coming over dude so can you please give us some privacy!! No, this doesn’t happen.
We are ofcourse talking about people who have platonic friendships ofcourse…

I have been betrayed by my husband who had an
emotional affair. All I can say is I went through every
emotion possible. It is devistating, if you can’t go to
your partner about thingsand plus the lies and secrecy. If you seek another member of the the opposite sex to pour your heart out to, you definitely have broken the marriage vows. Not just by hurting your spouse you also broke your vows to God. Forgiveness was asked of me and I have accepted. I will always be scarred but God forgives us when we ask. Even if sex was not involved it is one of the worst things I have encountered in my life.

I reckon, its very tricky to split up a person into his emotional, physical, social or spiritual selves. They all form a part of a person, as a whole. Hence, one has to be completely honest and fidel in all aspects to keep any relationship going…a marriage being the most delicate one. One can overlook the past and draw a line under it, but once together in a marriage, I feel one has to be completely committed to each other, to make this delicate bond grow stronger…everything else is so much easier to deal with if you know that you are honestly in love and so is your spouse…with each other, ofcourse!

I have just left a job where I instantly connected with a workmate. I have been in a very happy gay relationship for almost 14 years I had never experienced or heard of anything like emotional infidelity. For almost 2 years things were great, at home and work, like never before.

My 5 final weeks at work were strange as workmate was on holiday, and then I got a new job and left the company. Workmate and I were in contact during this time and we never worked together again.

He has recently returned from holiday, and I think we have the same feelings, but he is in a hetro relationship. We have not discussed these feelings. He may be avoiding them, and may have all his life

Thanks for your article, it has really helped me put things into perspective. I am not alone. I know the grass is definitely ‘not greener on the other side’, and I know I will get over it, in time.

He says he will go and live with girlfriend in Europe for a few years, which may make things easier.

…just stumbled across this blog site, couldn’t resist adding my two cents
Since the internet, ’emotional infidelity’ has suddenly become very hot topic. Most of the time the adulterer is the wife, as it is usually female who
seem to need more emotional support, which many of the husbands
are not ready/able/willing to provide. According to the ‘marriage gurus’ this is a BAD thing because a) this will progress to sexual infidelity and/or b) her family will suffer as she will spend more attention/time/energy in her affair.
but, what if that is not the case? what is wrong in seeking emotional support that she needs and can not find at home? what if this makes her a better wife/mother? One can not expect the husband to be perfect in every aspect. In old days there might have been support from joint family members, now there are only colleagues in the office. Why can’t she get some emotional support, even keep it secret, if she wishes, provided it does not become sexual and she remains strongly committed to her spouse and family. Is it too naive to expect it to work? what do you think?

Well, if someone feels that the marriage can be salvaged this way, why not? There is no one formula for all. But at the same time you have to remember that a marriage which does not satisfy a partner emotionally is not an ideal marriage…- Nita.

…That is the issue. how many real life marriages satisfy both partners emotionally? I would say most do not. If they did, we will not be having all this discussion. On the other hand, such marriages, even if not ideal, are ok in other aspects and do not have to end up in divorce courts or marriage counselors’ expensive couches. A platonic emotional friendship –with opposite or same sex friend– may be just the life line needed.

Well, I can’t say I agree with you here because I feel a marriage should be worked at. Getting into a relationship with someone else is a sure of way telling yourself that your marriage is not going to improve so this is it. But as I said one doesn’t know what life circumstances force a person to stay with another and therefore I do not want to be judgemental of that. I personally believe that if the marriage needs a crutch, it shouldn’t be carried on with. – Nita.

both emotional and physical affairs are danger
coz they may destroy family life altogether. but I
believe in emotional affair rather than physical.
any kind of emotional affair really touch into the depth of the heart, coz it’s heart to heart connextion. it cann’t be forgotten so easily. but the physical relationship ends within the moment soon after both the party’s involvment.it’s an affair of short term duration. my friends, I
advice all of you not to involve any of them.

I guess what kills a marriage is different between the sexes. For example: Suspecting infidelity, men are more likely to ask ‘Did you sleep with him?’ where as women are more likely to ask ‘Do you love her?’. Men and women ARE different emotionally and psychologically. So any discussion like this one should not be generalized and take into account these basic differences.

Enjoy!!

P.S. so many other things like culture, time, individuals attitude, etc also need to be considered.

Being a man I think, with respect to my partner, I would take physical infidelity more seriously than an emotional one. I can still understand emotional affair from women side, but physical affair in my opinion is an instant marriage-killer. Without over generalizing i can safely say that men are more inclined to physical affairs than an emotional affair, this works opposite in case of women. I think for women forgiving physical affair is easier than emotional ones. Any comments?

women forgiving physical affairs? man! you must be dreaming! perish the thought, hide the secret under your attic carpet, wear a innocenter-than-a-new born look and be a good and faithful boy (henceforth)

I agree and disagree… my husband was having an emotional affair with 2 women. One of them was an old high school girlfriend (and had affair with each other 18 years after graduation),, which I found out they have stayed in contact since high school, while both married other people.. we are separated, and I still don’t know if I can forgive him…..because I know he has kept that connection with her for so long and of course he says they were “just friends”. He says there was no sex with her since him and I have been together. Yet knowing she has been part of our 10 year marriage,,, is damage enough.

Physical or emotional,very difficult to say.For me it has been very high Funda.Karan,Russia,French etc.If at all ,we could discuss the REASONS for the spouse to cheat his/her partner.I think reasons for each case will be different.
I know the Hindustani Nuskha….Husband and wife, both must trust each other,respect each oteher,cover each others faults in public and maitain and believe that you trust each other.I promise you…no marriage will break
Does it sound too oldish?

Recently ABC news did a wonderful feature on her latest research on ‘why people like to go with certain type of people and not with others.’
Especially check part 3 featuring american matchmaker and part 4 about Indian arranged marriage.http://shoadh.blogspot.com/2009/07/update-on-assisted-marriage.html
It also features Reva Seth’s work

I am dating a french man, we met when I was there on vacation. He is planning a trip to come and see me and from there we will decide what to do. I had never heard that the French are tolerant, and even sometimes expect, adultery. Is this a customary thing I should be concerned about? I am American and cheating is a deal breaker for me.
Annalyn, I too have heard this about the French, but have no direct knowledge. Finally I think it does depend on the individual and I think once you meet him and talk to him about his values you will find out. In fact if you can mention your attitude towards adultery and see his reaction. – Nita

I have had a few friends who have gone through emotional and physical affairs…..I shared with my husband that I felt an emotional affair was worse become you have given your heart to someone else…..he argued with me and told me how stupid that was……little did I know he was right in the middle of an emotional affair. I have been married almost 27 years and I am so heartbroken……my heart actually hurts. What to do now?

Wow, Terri, I sympathize with you. This site is very interesting, especially as, for me, it originates on the other side of the world. I am sorry for your heartbreak. I would suggest that you go to the Marriage Builders website. Read. Research. Develop a plan based on a joint agreement. I am SURE you could have used some of the emotional support he was lending in his friend’s direction. I don’t think these relationships are safe for married people to be involved in. Unfortunately, quite unintentionally even, these friendship take an unexpected deepening turn when people fall in love. This can be a very difficult obstacle to overcome, though, if people are committed to their marriage, it does not have to be an insurmountable one. If your husband values his marriage to you, I believe he will need to desist. It will be very difficult. He will need support. (You will too!)His friend will have to understand that this is the way it has to be. She, too, will need support, but she will need to find her own resources.

You have taken the rather extreme case of physical infidelity. I have a few questions from “grey” areas. These are cases of not really “infidelity” as in having sex or sexual tension without sex, outside a committed relationship, but there is a slight physical component here. I believe it would be relevant to discuss it. I shall keep it realistic, but shall discuss only the most seemingly insignificant grey matters. Before, starting, let me observe that some may argue that platonic friendship cannot exist between members of the opposite sex, but let us assume that such platonic relations do exist, and answer these “grey” questions.

These questions are inspired from cases of individuals I know very closely. Two partners are separated by a long distance and either one of them could feel a little insecure about the partner’s friends in the opposite sex. This long distance relationship is across continents. One is in the US and the other in India. So the girl could be insecure about the guy’s female friends or the guy could be insecure about the girl’s male friends. This can happen either way. These are two youngsters and have rather liberal ideas about most issues (or at least claim to).

Now suppose one partner has purely platonic friends of the opposite sex and is given to hugging them rarely, perhaps just to congratulate or to wish that person luck or some such thing. But this person truthfully tells the partner about the occasional habit of hugging. The partner does not have a principle issue with hugging, but is not necessarily very comfortable about it either. The partner does not know any of these friends and has not even met them and does not know what equations they all share. I suppose it would be fair to say that the partner would not mind it at all if he knew these friends well enough or if the two lovers are in the same town and keep each other well informed about the equations they share with other members of the opposite sex. This person even claims that hugging would not be an issue if the partner were to hug only in their presence.

Here are my questions:
1. Do you think either of them is justified in feeling slightly insecure about this situation? Do you think either of them is being overbearing or oppressive? Do you think it is possible for lovers to be comfortable about hugging other friends in their presence? I suppose, it would depend on their upbringing and their background, but do you think it is possible that even those that claim to be comfortable may have a slight discomfort deep in their psyche about it, which would resurface only when faced with the actual situation?
2. Do you think they have reasonable ground to feel that the partner should not hug someone of the opposite sex when they can’t see them doing so – at least for the duration of the long distance separation? These are clearly platonic hugs, but the partner insists that one should not hug friends of the opposite sex in his/her absence. Do you think this is a reasonable expectation?
3. What do you think would happen if both had friends of the opposite sex that they are given to hug occasionally? Would both of them just leave the matter and not fight about it, or do you think they could end up in a serious misunderstanding? In other words, would you recommend that the partner that insists on abstinence from hugging during his/her absence should make more friends of the opposite sex, or develop a slightly more positive outlook towards such friendships? I believe partners could be insecure about such things even in the US.
4. Let’s say they agree on such a course of abstinence during the absence of the partner, and still violate this rule once in a while. Would it be reasonable for any of them to expect that the partner would understand or gloss over the matter, or forgive, if he/she truthfully tells the partner about it, out of his/her own accord? And if the partner does really gloss over it or forgive, is it likely that he/she is also violating it and is just not telling? If the partner does not forgive, would it be fair for him/her to say that they no longer trust promises made by the other?

Now let’s say an individual A has an emergency that necessitates him/her to stay over at a friend’s place. This friend is a good buddy, belongs to the opposite sex, but not at all known to A’s lover, who lives on the other end of the globe. Would it be fair for one of them to feel insecure about their partner staying the night at their friend’s place, even if it is an emergency that necessitates it? Consider the following cases:

A guy is stuck in a new town at 3.00am, has a car but cannot get a hotel room to stay. He has some female friend in the town and stays over for the night, sleeping on her couch to restart journey the next morning. The female friend agrees to let him stay and sleep on her couch, and she lives with her parents (they sleep in a different room). In another case, a girl is out with her friends partying and it is late in the night. They all decide to go back home and the girl needs one of her male friends to drop her. Instead the friend convinces her to stay back for the night, spend some time at a coffee shop and sleep over at his place, where his parents also live (they sleep in a different room). He agrees to drop her home, the first thing next morning, and arranges to give her a separate bed. In yet another case, let’s say, a guy has this female friend that decides to stop over and sleep at his place (on a separate couch) and is there just to study for an exam. In the last case, a girl has a male friend that decides to come over to study for the exam and sleeps on a separate couch.

In all the above situations, the girl or the guy is in a committed long distance relationship and their lovers are often informed of these situations. Of course, these are cases from slightly more emancipated sections of the society, and they happen both in India as well as the US. Assume no one is having sex or even making out. Each individual (say A) knows his/her friends and their parents very well, but A’s partner (who lives very far off) does not know these friends or their parents at all. A and his/her lover also know each others’ parents very well, and have made a tacit resolve not to complain to their partner’s parents.

Would it be fair for the partner to feel insecure about these situations, even if they don’t occur so frequently? Say the frequency of such events is once in three-four months. The partner does not have any problems if their lover has a room-mate or friend of the same sex that sleeps in the next room or even the same room, but feels uncomfortable only when members of the opposite sex are concerned. The partner does not have a problem even if a member of the opposite sex were to come and stay at the lover’s place in the presence of the parents (because he/she knows them well), but insists that the lover should not go to stay over with some friend of the opposite sex, even if that friend lives with parents.

Now, let us say the partners have friends in the opposite sex that are gay or lesbian. But their partners don’t know if these friends are really homosexual and has not even met them. In any case, it is hard to figure out from one’s face if one is really homosexual. How would you view it if one of them is to regularly hug these homosexual friends. Would it be unreasonable that the partner feels insecure about this situation even if he/she is told that these friends of the opposite sex are homosexual? Would it be reasonable for the partner to insist that one abstain from hugging in their absence, even in this case?

I would disagree if you were to say that only men claim to have platonic female friends or female lesbian friends. In today’s world, it is quite possible for women to have close platonic male friends or even male gay friends. If anyone else wishes to respond, you are most welcome to do so. I’m sorry if my questions cause spam or a flood of responses, but I think this grey area is really the bigger killer of marriages and pre-marital committed relationships, than “emotional infidelity”.

Please understand that this is the 21st century and such situations are quite common. Please don’t criticize the boy or the girl for these situations. In open cultures like the US, such situations are the norm, but they are fast growing in ubiquity even in India. I believe most people want to be very faithful to their partners. But I guess misunderstandings and fights begin when partners disagree on these little grey areas. And when they disagree, they tend to assert their own ideas, and that could hurt their partner deeply.

Hi,
Let me add my two cent. A lot has already been said on the topic and balaji’s post was especially wrong. Let me add my view point to the same.

1. Hi Teri, Sorry to hear about your husband’s emotional affair. And i will second u r last line. If u really love someone a heart ache really physically aches. Its true.

2. A marriage i believe is a commitment to stay together physically and emotionally.(but like honesty , goodness and every value and virtue in the world, emotional closeness its intensity cannot be measured, cannot be criticised by society , or cannot be compared with your neighbour, unlike physical closeness or love . So its just you. and your innate faith in your relationship. I suggest you guys see the movie “I am a sex addict” by caveh zahedi. It is a fantastic movie about relationships. The guy finds his soul mate 3 times!!!)

3. But the main thing is no 1 almost no1 marries for sacrifice or custom or bullshit like that. People marry to be happy. To satisfy their desires, physical and emotional.

4. When they dont get it. Affairs happen. In my view. Both kind of affairs a sad one. They happen because most people dont realise the 3rd point. They simply fall out off love and fall in love.

5. Neither one can kill a marriage if the couples dont want to.In my view , Emotional affair already signifies a stale if not dead relationship with your partner.( i wont call it a dead marriage as marriage consists of family , children and many other things.)

6. Also a physical affair will definately kill the marriage if confessed.Very few people can live with burden of obvious truth than they can with unconfirmed rumours of infidelity. Anyway anything looong cannot last on the pillar of emotional fluff. Of course emotion is important but at the weak moments you need something solid like a court and a whole list of relatives and friend who are gonna stand between you and divorce.

My girlfriend met a woman in a W/W meeting. She would come and tell me all about this woman and how I would really like her. This connection between them at the meetings went on for a great while. This other woman started showing up EVERYDAY at our home business. Sometimes for many many hours. The other woman was very aggressive and intrusive asking soo many questions of ALL of us, even my friends.
My GF and her ‘new friend’ were together constantly. some times on the phone with each other, chatting on FB at the same time as well as sending emails-multitasking! Last May I caught them holding and kissing each other by the river. All hell broke loose as a short time went by. We went to couples therapy, my partner stopped going to her W/W meetings, but the other woman could/would not stop trying to get involved with us or our teenage kids.
Now, I have gotten help and I am doing much better. Forging them both was a great start to my healing. That didn’t mean I wanted this woman around me,my kids or my cheating partner.
My partner cannot quit having thoughts about this woman, and she is very sad almost daily.
She has started back with W/W and of course this ‘new friend’ was there also. I realized that they would more than likely run into each other again. They spoke and now the other womans wants to just be friends again as my partner does. The other woman even suggested ‘mini vacations’ and ‘day trips for the two of them.
My girlfriend doesn’t make friends easily, but this appears to be just ‘part two’ of their emotional relationship that in the previous affair turned into a physical affair rather quickly.
I don’t think this is a good idea, but they “seemed to have learned their lesson from the initial affair. In love and confused, and human. HELP?

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