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Topic: Wider Hope - Salvation (Read 3220 times)

James2018

7-27-2018 11:20 amThis is an active research project. We're rewriting John Sanders' list and definitions.This is the definitive book on this topic.We've already removed universal, unitarian, faith inclusive, middle knowledge, final encounter part a., and special revelation part a. .No Other name, An Investigation into the Destiny of the Unevangelized, John Sanders

Restrictive Positionthe gospel is revealed through human ministries, necessity of the new birth in this life

Wider Hope Position

Special Revelation - the gospel can be revealed or at least repeated in dreams, visions, near death, coma, etc.

Final Encounter - the gospel will be presented again at deathor at least the gospel will be presented to those who have never heard the gospel

Middle Knowledge - final judgment is based upon the individual's knowledge and what each individual would have believed in better circumstances

Faith Inclusive - final judgment is based upon the individual's subjective faith in goodness, regardless of the individual's beliefs

Middle Knowledge and Faith Inclusive can be excluded.Biblical faith is objective, not subjective.KJV For by grace are ye saved through faithKJV faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of GodKJV Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

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Special Revelation part b. is not special revelation.It fits the current definition of Restrictive Position.

Final Encounter part b. is possible.

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This topic has been an open research project for years.Thank you for your sincerity and invaluable posts and for the excellent monitors.

Biblical Positionthe gospel is revealed through human ministries, necessity of the new birth in this life,wider hope for the unevangelized

Christian Forums and Message Board

James 2018, thanks for the recommendation for reading. I hope you don't mine my making a recommendation to you. You may want to do more reading on the Apostle Paul and his ministry. It's helpful to know to whom he was addressing in each epistle and the circumstances behind his particular writings. Acts Chapter Fifteen is good for some background on Paul's disputes with the leaders of the Jerusalem Church. In the epistles to the church at Thessalonica Paul's teachings and efforts to evangelize were challenged by unbelieving Jews, believing Jews (the circumcision), Greek pagans and the Romans. Sometimes the Book of Romans is not understood to be an admonishment to both believing Jews and to Greek/Gentile converts that neither has a superior position in Christ. We can note that Paul essentially called Peter a hypocrite in Galatians 2:11 because Peter had turned away from ministering to Gentiles and agreed with other Jerusalem Church leadership that Gentile converts had to be circumcised.

quote] Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,[/quote]

Titus 2:1 But SPEAK thou the things which become SOUND DOCTRINE:Titus 2:2 THAT the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise,that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, To love their husbands, to love their children,Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their OWN husbands, that the WORD of God be not blasphemed.Titus 2:6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,Titus 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned;that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.Titus 2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity;that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

FOR is enim meaning WHAT I MEAN IS DO these things BECAUSE

Titus 2:11 FOR the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Titus 2:12 Teaching us THAT, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ;Titus 2:14 WHO gave himself for us,THAT he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

James2018

quote] Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:1 But SPEAK thou the things which become SOUND DOCTRINE:Titus 2:2 THAT the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise,that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, To love their husbands, to love their children,Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their OWN husbands, that the WORD of God be not blasphemed.Titus 2:6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,Titus 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned;that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.Titus 2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity;that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

FOR is enim meaning WHAT I MEAN IS DO these things BECAUSE

Titus 2:11 FOR the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Titus 2:12 Teaching us THAT, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ;Titus 2:14 WHO gave himself for us,THAT he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Generally, forums are for conversation. I'm not sure what the original post is, but it doesn't look like the beginning of a conversation. If you have a point to make, make it and other will come to agree or disagree with you.

James2018

The central critical issue in academic theology is final authority.The questions of wider hope are the final questions of soteriology,and the questions of final canonization are the final questions of final authority.

My reason why I am not interested in reading the book is because the bible clearly says one must be born again. What I understand is you want to show that is not the case because of what you have read in said book. That means that the bible is wrong (according to said book) if it teaches that the only way is to be born anew (and it says otherwise) and I stand strong in my belief that the bible is truly the word of God and I will take Gods word on this over any other.

I am curious to see what those "Wider Hope" theories are, but going by this definition of "Restrictive" I am definitely a promoter of the necessity of the gospel, of faith, and of the new birth in this life.

Some believe there is wider hope for those who have never heard.Unitarians believe all faiths lead to the salvation of Jesus Christ.Universalists believe all faiths lead God.

Romans 10:11-15.For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall they preach, except they be sent? even as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that bring glad tidings of good things!

People have to hear and believe the gospel to be saved. This passage stresses the absolute necessity of evangelism. Many passages stress the necessity of evangelism, such as the Great Commission passages; Jesus wants the gospel to go to all nations, to every creature (the whole creation), and to all the world (Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:47).

In addition, the gospel is carried by people and preached by people unto people. Just as God became a man to bring salvation to man, so man is the instrument God uses to take this gospel to others.