I used to work with a guy that was super smart, I mean his spare time and hobby was developing a fuel system, and rockets to be used by the U.S. Navy kind of smart. Here's the rub, he was so smart he was "stupid." He couldn't deal with the common, everyday things of life, he didn't know how to relate to those less smart than he.

So Eric, when I read your position, I see the audacious attitude of one who perceives to know based on hypotheticals. In some ways it's almost like "Horton hears a who." Look at all the grains of sand on the Earth, and yet just one of them might contain life, and by your numbers that possibility is a likelihood, because the math says so.

Pablo as I read your post I couldn't help but ask myself, what is so hard to understand about relationship? Then I thought on it further and realized that it isn't the relationship that's the hang up, it's the fact that we can't understand that we were created for a purpose. So chew on that for a second: what is the purpose of your life?

Are you here to take up space, breathe air, spawn a few children, and then die off? For what? What's the ultimate purpose behind humanity? If you wanted to look at this from a planetary stance, our presence here does more harm than good to the Earth, so it can't be that we have a purpose that helps the entire Ecosystem of Earth. You know the cum bye ya, circle of life thinking?

So what is our purpose? Why has humanity been created and then allowed to continue if all we do is damage one another, destroy our environment, and make life hard for the planet itself?

Now mix in that little ingredient called relationship, and look at the story of Heaven. In an age before men, there were the angelic, beings created for the purpose of service. They did not have free will, they operated according to their creation. But if I were a Divine and Holy God, and I was surrounded by (forgive the explanation) robots, how am I really going to give and receive love? I have these guys over here, but they worship me because that's what they were created for, and that's how their programmed. So why don't I create someone that I can give the option of free will too.

Thus the story of man! Man was/is given free will! We can choose to love or hate, like or dislike, and just about anything we wish. Prior to the fall via deception which actually was a "mixing" of the ages, you have pure man and pure woman walking, talking, loving, and being loved in paradise. Then the one angelic being that was created stronger and more beautiful than any other became PROUD and chose to surplant God. In doing so he led a revolt that took 1/3 of the angelic forces with him and they were defeated and cast down to Earth. So if this angelic CREATED being called Lucifer, now satan (<-disrespect intended) can not attack and defeat God, he chooses to attack that which represents the image of God. Man and Woman. He can hurt God just like adultery hurts thae spouse! And so he did, he corrupted the thinking through deception and questioning God's word to Adam and Eve.

This caused a break in the relationship, and disrupted the purpose for mankind, which was that we were born to be in, and have a mutual , back and forth, free by choice, relationship with God. Because of this break, a blood sacrifice was needed to correct the flaw. But not just any blood, pure, unadultered blood. So this leads to the story of why Jesus came as a man, in order to be like one of us, in order to bridge that chasm between God and man.

So now you see my perspective on purpose, but I would really like to know what others think because I do believe this is a powerful question. Thanks.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

August 22nd, 2012, 8:38 am

49ers

Varsity Captain

Joined: October 12th, 2011, 9:00 amPosts: 289Location: Vermont

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

I.E. wrote:

It's pretty clear, from real math from people that understand math... that our existence is not only not a miracle... but is actually not a surprise at all. We mathmatically EXPECT, given what we know about the universe, that there is life out their because of the sheer volume of opportunities, statistically.

I was just about to chime in with the same as this, but opposite. I have 3 college degrees, 2 of them in Mathematics. The majority of math teacher and professors and fellow cohorts that I know believe in some form of a higher being BECAUSE of the math. The sheer probability that a rock with the proper gravitational pull, with the proper distance from the sun, that has the right amount of land vs water, that has the ability to create millions of species that serve purposes towards each other, is so astronomically low, that we can't possibly exist without there being some sort of a reason behind it all. So unless intelligent life is found on another planet, religion is king.

Personally, I don't go one way or another. I go with what I know: I'm alive, and I enjoy it. There are millions of religions with millions of different beliefs and ways of life, and they can't all be right, so why pick one? For that matter, why bother bad-mouthing it either? Just be a good person and let others do what they want to do, and move on.

_________________

Pablo wrote:

the app worked OK, but it is hard to draft while driving.

August 22nd, 2012, 10:01 am

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3955Location: Davison Mi

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Quote:

It's pretty clear, from real math from people that understand math... that our existence is not only not a miracle... but is actually not a surprise at all. We mathmatically EXPECT, given what we know about the universe, that there is life out their because of the sheer volume of opportunities, statistically.

we EXPECT that life is out there. what you dont say is what kind of life. mold? for sure. bacteria? absolutly. INTELLIGENT LIFE? no one is expecting that. thats not to say it's not possible, but the word "expect" is WAAAAAY to presumptuous.

And to pablo....why can't a creator pick a favorite ant farm (to go with your analogy) and interact with it daily? why is that so impossible?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 22nd, 2012, 10:15 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

regularjoe12 wrote:

And to pablo....why can't a creator pick a favorite ant farm (to go with your analogy) and interact with it daily? why is that so impossible?

he certainly can, why do we think our particular ant farm would be his favorite? That is pretty arrogant thinking. I mean Titus Young thinks he is the heir apparent to Barry Sanders - doesn't make it so.

In addition, there is little (if any) evidence of him interacting on a daily basis with our little ant farm so it appears we are pretty low on his favorites list.

And to pablo....why can't a creator pick a favorite ant farm (to go with your analogy) and interact with it daily? why is that so impossible?

he certainly can, why do we think our particular ant farm would be his favorite? That is pretty arrogant thinking. I mean Titus Young thinks he is the heir apparent to Barry Sanders - doesn't make it so.

In addition, there is little (if any) evidence of him interacting on a daily basis with our little ant farm so it appears we are pretty low on his favorites list.

I wont dipute if we are or arnt, you are a prrof required guy and thats never going to happen. I just wanted to make sure you were open to the idea that he can pick favorites and we still COULD be one of them.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 22nd, 2012, 10:49 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

regularjoe12 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

And to pablo....why can't a creator pick a favorite ant farm (to go with your analogy) and interact with it daily? why is that so impossible?

he certainly can, why do we think our particular ant farm would be his favorite? That is pretty arrogant thinking. I mean Titus Young thinks he is the heir apparent to Barry Sanders - doesn't make it so.

In addition, there is little (if any) evidence of him interacting on a daily basis with our little ant farm so it appears we are pretty low on his favorites list.

I wont dipute if we are or arnt, you are a prrof required guy and thats never going to happen. I just wanted to make sure you were open to the idea that he can pick favorites and we still COULD be one of them.

And to pablo....why can't a creator pick a favorite ant farm (to go with your analogy) and interact with it daily? why is that so impossible?

he certainly can, why do we think our particular ant farm would be his favorite? That is pretty arrogant thinking. I mean Titus Young thinks he is the heir apparent to Barry Sanders - doesn't make it so.

In addition, there is little (if any) evidence of him interacting on a daily basis with our little ant farm so it appears we are pretty low on his favorites list.

I wont dipute if we are or arnt, you are a prrof required guy and thats never going to happen. I just wanted to make sure you were open to the idea that he can pick favorites and we still COULD be one of them.

We absolutely could be!

ok next question: if a being powerful enough to create everything wanted to help out mankind without anyone knowing...do you believe he could?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 22nd, 2012, 11:29 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

regularjoe12 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

And to pablo....why can't a creator pick a favorite ant farm (to go with your analogy) and interact with it daily? why is that so impossible?

he certainly can, why do we think our particular ant farm would be his favorite? That is pretty arrogant thinking. I mean Titus Young thinks he is the heir apparent to Barry Sanders - doesn't make it so.

In addition, there is little (if any) evidence of him interacting on a daily basis with our little ant farm so it appears we are pretty low on his favorites list.

I wont dipute if we are or arnt, you are a prrof required guy and thats never going to happen. I just wanted to make sure you were open to the idea that he can pick favorites and we still COULD be one of them.

We absolutely could be!

ok next question: if a being powerful enough to create everything wanted to help out mankind without anyone knowing...do you believe he could?

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Interesting that you choose to use the term "ant farm" when referring to God and humanity.

Tell me, how do people actually interact with an antfarm?

Answer: we don't. We watch them from behind the glass and allow them to go through their day to day activities without getting involved, other than the occasional help by adding food or sand or whatever (sorry, I've never owned an antfarm or been interested in one).

It still doesn't mean that just because a person simply observes that antfarm doesn't mean they don't care, or that it's not their favorite.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

August 22nd, 2012, 11:43 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Interesting thoughts all, but would anyone care to chime in on the questions I asked above? Please?

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

August 22nd, 2012, 11:50 am

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3955Location: Davison Mi

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Pablo wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

And to pablo....why can't a creator pick a favorite ant farm (to go with your analogy) and interact with it daily? why is that so impossible?

he certainly can, why do we think our particular ant farm would be his favorite? That is pretty arrogant thinking. I mean Titus Young thinks he is the heir apparent to Barry Sanders - doesn't make it so.

In addition, there is little (if any) evidence of him interacting on a daily basis with our little ant farm so it appears we are pretty low on his favorites list.

I wont dipute if we are or arnt, you are a prrof required guy and thats never going to happen. I just wanted to make sure you were open to the idea that he can pick favorites and we still COULD be one of them.

We absolutely could be!

ok next question: if a being powerful enough to create everything wanted to help out mankind without anyone knowing...do you believe he could?

Yes, of course.

ok my final question for ya and then ill leave the theology alone for a bit. If he we COULD be his favorites and he COULD interact with us without us ever knowing, how do you think we'd ever get the proof you require to acknowledge he exists?

ok one bonus question for fun, if we are the ant farm, and God DOESN't want anyone to know what he's up to (his interactions with us and such) do you understand why god wouldn't give in to your demands to just make himself known to you simply because you say so?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 22nd, 2012, 11:59 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Interesting thoughts all, but would anyone care to chime in on the questions I asked above? Please?

What question is that? What is humanities purpose?

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

August 22nd, 2012, 12:32 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Interesting thoughts all, but would anyone care to chime in on the questions I asked above? Please?

Sorry, back to your question of purpose. I'm going to answer it with another questions - what is the purpose of an ants life?

Answer that and you are close to the answer you seek. If you have a hard time accepting the answer then you will look to insert false meaning to "make you feel better" and give your life "purpose" - an empty space that most religions try to fill.

M2K wrote:

Tell me, how do people actually interact with an antfarm?

Good point, however, we are not the creator/father of said ants (nor do we seek a relationship with them or hope that they "worship" up . I used them as a visual illustration point. We can see ants, the move and interact with each other with a "purpose" - what is it?

regjoe wrote:

ok my final question for ya and then ill leave the theology alone for a bit. If he we COULD be his favorites and he COULD interact with us without us ever knowing, how do you think we'd ever get the proof you require to acknowledge he exists?

ok one bonus question for fun, if we are the ant farm, and God DOESN't want anyone to know what he's up to (his interactions with us and such) do you understand why god wouldn't give in to your demands to just make himself known to you simply because you say so?

First, you are starting this with a lot of if, BIG IFs at that. But lets assume all the IFs are correct - I do understand why God would give into my demands simply because I say so - heck I'm an ant afterall.'

But lets flip this. If you were the creator of ants and wanted a "relationship" with them (perhaps you were interested in being worshipped), wouldn't you give them proof and be in contact with them? It really comes down to what God's intentions are, IMO very few (if any) belief systems deal with this in a logical manner.

First, you are starting this with a lot of if, BIG IFs at that. But lets assume all the IFs are correct - I do understand why God would give into my demands simply because I say so - heck I'm an ant afterall.'

But lets flip this. If you were the creator of ants and wanted a "relationship" with them (perhaps you were interested in being worshipped), wouldn't you give them proof and be in contact with them? It really comes down to what God's intentions are, IMO very few (if any) belief systems deal with this in a logical manner.

I agree about the "if's" and this isnt an attempt to convert you...just kind of point out that the things YOU hide behind like needing proof, and the fact that god wouldn't present himself to you when you asked, are no more or less flimsy than the reasons some people become chritsians is all.

as for the 2nd part...Im not the one who can answer that one. I cant figure out why my gal does the things she does and she's only a little smarter than me! A being smart enough to create existance....their reasoning would be beyond me lol. I can make educated guesses on the power of faith all day long...but thats all they would be is guesses.

thank you for answering my questions though...Ill ask my Banditos to take it easy on your S_P_A_R_T_A_N_S this year lol

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 22nd, 2012, 1:00 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Pablo, I appreciate your answer with a question and I started to think on it in order to answer my question with the answer to your question. (say that 3 times fast and backwards) But I hit a snag.....

The snag is that ants are without a soul, or spirit, so therefore they are different than we are. If we were on the same plane, then you would have a better basis with which to state your point in question form. But since man is of higher intelligence and does have a soul, spirit, and mind, we are above the animal kingdom, and can reason, so therefore we have a purpose.

So in the internet form of tennis, it's in your court.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."