Timmybb13 wrote:I have a friend who is a South African white guy. He said he'd feel terrible about clicking the African American box because he would take a spot away from a true URM (his words)...

But then again, he is, in fact, African-American. I don't think applications ask if he is "black". Any thoughts on this...?

By the way he is scoring in the 170s on the LSAT...

Definition- "African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa." Also i think most apps have black/African American or just black, well at least the ones i filled out.

Timmybb13 wrote:I have a friend who is a South African white guy. He said he'd feel terrible about clicking the African American box because he would take a spot away from a true URM (his words)...

But then again, he is, in fact, African-American. I don't think applications ask if he is "black". Any thoughts on this...?

By the way he is scoring in the 170s on the LSAT...

Definition- "African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa." Also i think most apps have black/African American or just black, well at least the ones i filled out.

Ahh...gotcha. Arsenal will have their hands full next round with Man U.

Timmybb13 wrote:I have a friend who is a South African white guy. He said he'd feel terrible about clicking the African American box because he would take a spot away from a true URM (his words)...

But then again, he is, in fact, African-American. I don't think applications ask if he is "black". Any thoughts on this...?

By the way he is scoring in the 170s on the LSAT...

Definition- "African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa." Also i think most apps have black/African American or just black, well at least the ones i filled out.

Ahh...gotcha. Arsenal will have their hands full next round with Man U.

Aro5389 wrote:I know the OP made a list for Middle Easterners so me asking might be futile but I'm going to anyway:

My father is from Iran and is of Persian decent.My mother is from Pennsylvania and is of German/French/Irish decent.

I'm a dual citizen of Iran and the United States (born in US), but you would never know I was Iranian.

Assuming White + Persian = White...

am I a URM or not?

This is (almost) my mix as well. My father is Persian (from Mashad and Tehran); my mother is a white mutt from Oregon/northern California. Persians are not considered to be a URM at any of the schools I applied to. We're white. Same with anyone from the rest of the Middle East/North Africa.

Who would/would not be considered African-American? Does the term include immigrants from African countries and/or their children? If so, would the entire continent be included (i.e. North Africa). Could this even include South Africans who are white or Asian?

ArmyVet07 wrote:Who would/would not be considered African-American? Does the term include immigrants from African countries and/or their children? If so, would the entire continent be included (i.e. North Africa). Could this even include South Africans who are white or Asian?

Is rhetorical and meant as a tool to rouse deep introspection on some level? If not then good Christ...

ArmyVet07 wrote:Who would/would not be considered African-American? Does the term include immigrants from African countries and/or their children? If so, would the entire continent be included (i.e. North Africa). Could this even include South Africans who are white or Asian?

Blacks in the United States. Descendants of African slaves in the States are considered African-Americans. It is as simple as that.

A lot of people are having difficulty understanding why some minorities aren't URMS and some are. I'll try to give an explanation, hopefully it makes sense to those who feel they're being cheated because they are a minority but receive no URM boost.

For purposes of law school admission, under represented minority generally means non-white race who is considerably under represented in degrees overall-typically advanced degrees (not necessarily specifically JDs). For instance, Asians are under represented in JDs (although arguably not considerably under represented when compared to blacks or hispanics) but they aren't under represented in advanced degrees overall (they're actually over represented), so that is likely why they receive no URM boost in law school admission.

The reason why hispanics are broken down by nationality is due to the large portion of the US population that is hispanic coupled with the stark differences in degrees held by one hispanic group over another.

About 64% of hispanics in the US are Mexican and 9% are Puerto Rican. 3.4% Cuban, 3.1 %Salvadoran and 2.8 % Dominican. Source: --LinkRemoved--

While only 13% of hispanics overall have degrees, around 7% of Mexicans do and 10% of Puerto Ricoans do. Given how much Mexicans and Puerto Ricans make up of the overall hispanic population (combined around 73%), this means that them both being considerably below the hispanic average means that other hispanic subgroups must be considerably above the hispanic average. For instance, about 20% of cubans have degrees. Approximately 30% of whites do to give you a basis of comparison. Source:http://www.seattlepi.com/national/14446 ... ics16.html--LinkRemoved--http://www.census.gov/population/www/so ... -attn.html

So yes, there are stark differences amongst hispanic demographics and minorities. Some are extremely under represented, others are not.

ArmyVet07 wrote:Who would/would not be considered African-American? Does the term include immigrants from African countries and/or their children? If so, would the entire continent be included (i.e. North Africa). Could this even include South Africans who are white or Asian?

Blacks in the United States. Descendants of African slaves in the States are considered African-Americans. It is as simple as that.

It isn't that simple. By that definition Barack Obama is not African American. Most people consider him to be, including African Americans.

The term African American and Black are very complicated terms. Its listed as "African American/Black" on most forms because that's the best we can come up with right now. Statistics are generally taken to identify problems and the statistics surrounding blacks and hispanics are troubling. They indicate systematic problems. Defining black/African American and hispanic is somewhat difficult, but academia does what it can.

I'm guessing Filipino or Venezuelan doesn't qualify as URM?does one have to IDENTIFY with the culture to be considered a URM?i know that's case specific, but i'm sure there are people that would fall under the URM category but never identified with that culture yes still mark it off...do law schools give them a boost without having them write about it in their applications, etc?

Drake014 wrote:A lot of people are having difficulty understanding why some minorities aren't URMS and some are. I'll try to give an explanation, hopefully it makes sense to those who feel they're being cheated because they are a minority but receive no URM boost.

For purposes of law school admission, under represented minority generally means non-white race who is considerably under represented in degrees overall-typically advanced degrees (not necessarily specifically JDs). For instance, Asians are under represented in JDs (although arguably not considerably under represented when compared to blacks or hispanics) but they aren't under represented in advanced degrees overall (they're actually over represented), so that is likely why they receive no URM boost in law school admission.

The reason why hispanics are broken down by nationality is due to the large portion of the US population that is hispanic coupled with the stark differences in degrees held by one hispanic group over another.

About 64% of hispanics in the US are Mexican and 9% are Puerto Rican. 3.4% Cuban, 3.1 %Salvadoran and 2.8 % Dominican. Source: --LinkRemoved--

While only 13% of hispanics overall have degrees, around 7% of Mexicans do and 10% of Puerto Ricoans do. Given how much Mexicans and Puerto Ricans make up of the overall hispanic population (combined around 73%), this means that them both being considerably below the hispanic average means that other hispanic subgroups must be considerably above the hispanic average. For instance, about 20% of cubans have degrees. Approximately 30% of whites do to give you a basis of comparison. Source:http://www.seattlepi.com/national/14446 ... ics16.html--LinkRemoved--http://www.census.gov/population/www/so ... -attn.html

So yes, there are stark differences amongst hispanic demographics and minorities. Some are extremely under represented, others are not.

max powers wrote:I'm guessing Filipino or Venezuelan doesn't qualify as URM?does one have to IDENTIFY with the culture to be considered a URM?i know that's case specific, but i'm sure there are people that would fall under the URM category but never identified with that culture yes still mark it off...do law schools give them a boost without having them write about it in their applications, etc?

Drake014 wrote:A lot of people are having difficulty understanding why some minorities aren't URMS and some are. I'll try to give an explanation, hopefully it makes sense to those who feel they're being cheated because they are a minority but receive no URM boost.

For purposes of law school admission, under represented minority generally means non-white race who is considerably under represented in degrees overall-typically advanced degrees (not necessarily specifically JDs). For instance, Asians are under represented in JDs (although arguably not considerably under represented when compared to blacks or hispanics) but they aren't under represented in advanced degrees overall (they're actually over represented), so that is likely why they receive no URM boost in law school admission.

The reason why hispanics are broken down by nationality is due to the large portion of the US population that is hispanic coupled with the stark differences in degrees held by one hispanic group over another.

About 64% of hispanics in the US are Mexican and 9% are Puerto Rican. 3.4% Cuban, 3.1 %Salvadoran and 2.8 % Dominican. Source: --LinkRemoved--

While only 13% of hispanics overall have degrees, around 7% of Mexicans do and 10% of Puerto Ricoans do. Given how much Mexicans and Puerto Ricans make up of the overall hispanic population (combined around 73%), this means that them both being considerably below the hispanic average means that other hispanic subgroups must be considerably above the hispanic average. For instance, about 20% of cubans have degrees. Approximately 30% of whites do to give you a basis of comparison. Source:http://www.seattlepi.com/national/14446 ... ics16.html--LinkRemoved--http://www.census.gov/population/www/so ... -attn.html

So yes, there are stark differences amongst hispanic demographics and minorities. Some are extremely under represented, others are not.

My understanding is that of hispanics, really only Mexican and Puerto Ricans get the URM boost at most law schools for the reasons I indicated. However, if you feel you can espouse a unique perspective due to your background, definitely include it in a diversity statement.

ArmyVet07 wrote:Who would/would not be considered African-American? Does the term include immigrants from African countries and/or their children? If so, would the entire continent be included (i.e. North Africa). Could this even include South Africans who are white or Asian?

Blacks in the United States. Descendants of African slaves in the States are considered African-Americans. It is as simple as that.

It isn't that simple. By that definition Barack Obama is not African American. Most people consider him to be, including African Americans.

The term African American and Black are very complicated terms. Its listed as "African American/Black" on most forms because that's the best we can come up with right now. Statistics are generally taken to identify problems and the statistics surrounding blacks and hispanics are troubling. They indicate systematic problems. Defining black/African American and hispanic is somewhat difficult, but academia does what it can.

My question was sincere. As Drake014 points out, the question is complicated. For example, a Hispanic can be of any race, including Black. So would a Cuban (not considered a URM) who is Black then be a URM? Is there a distinction made between US citizens and foreigners? (i.e. Does one have to be a US citizen to be considered a URM?)

ArmyVet07 wrote:Who would/would not be considered African-American? Does the term include immigrants from African countries and/or their children? If so, would the entire continent be included (i.e. North Africa). Could this even include South Africans who are white or Asian?

Blacks in the United States. Descendants of African slaves in the States are considered African-Americans. It is as simple as that.

It isn't that simple. By that definition Barack Obama is not African American. Most people consider him to be, including African Americans.

The term African American and Black are very complicated terms. Its listed as "African American/Black" on most forms because that's the best we can come up with right now. Statistics are generally taken to identify problems and the statistics surrounding blacks and hispanics are troubling. They indicate systematic problems. Defining black/African American and hispanic is somewhat difficult, but academia does what it can.

My question was sincere. As Drake014 points out, the question is complicated. For example, a Hispanic can be of any race, including Black. So would a Cuban (not considered a URM) who is Black then be a URM? Is there a distinction made between US citizens and foreigners? (i.e. Does one have to be a US citizen to be considered a URM?)

The question of race (socially constructed) is complicated I agree it is not that simple but the legacy of the United States if you had black in your ancestry. You were or are considered black because you were non-white. Now the cnesus and race categorizations have been become more complex and give people more options to identify who they are. Hispanic is not a race you can be white, black Hispanic. Let's not forget that Obama considers himself Black too. When it comes down to race society unfortunately plays a major role in self-identification. As far as the term African is largely associated with Black people in Africa mostly sub-saharan part. North African countries despite being geographically part of Africa they are considered themselves Arabs. I know this because I grew up with a lot of North African kids. In the world we live in, if you look black you are black and society often determines if you look black or not from m perspective.

optijoy wrote:I have a question regarding URM status. I looked around, but I couldn't find the answer. I'm Asian and Native Hawaiian. I know that Asian doesn't count as URM, but would indicating that I'm Native Hawaiian be a boost? I know that Asian/Pacific Islander is one category on the LSAT when I identify my race. I would probably write a diversity statement about my Hawaiian background. I guess my question is: would that help me in admissions? Thanks for any responses.

I don't believe you qualify as a URM at any law school but do write a diversity statement.

ArmyVet07 wrote:My question was sincere. As Drake014 points out, the question is complicated. For example, a Hispanic can be of any race, including Black. So would a Cuban (not considered a URM) who is Black then be a URM? Is there a distinction made between US citizens and foreigners? (i.e. Does one have to be a US citizen to be considered a URM?)

You need to be either a US citizen or a permanent resident to receive URM boost. International students are not considered a part of US population for AA purposes (or for tax or many other purposes, for that matter).

lishi wrote:Since this question comes up many times, let's try to keep all of the answers and responses in one thread. Everything below is the answers that other TLS posters will give you when you ask a question. I know this because I've spent way too much time on this site for over a year.

The general consensus on this board (TLS) is that the only groups to receive URM (Under Represented Minority) boosts are: Black/African Americans, Native Americans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans.

If you are from any other Latin American or Spanish speaking country, the consensus is to just check the Hispanic box. You may not receive as much of a boost as those that check Mexican or Puerto Rican, but it may still help you in showing diversity to the class.

For Native Americans some schools require that you show a tribe affiliation. This is not all schools, but check with the schools you are interested in before deciding to check this box.

For Arabs/Indians/Pakistanians/Middle Easterners, for law school purposes you are usually not considered a URM. This is for a variety of reasons. It's most likely not fair, but life isn't fair.

If you have any questions about your URM status that are not answered above PLEASE ASK THEM IN THIS THREAD. All questions regarding whether your background/race/heritage/circumstance falls into the URM category will be moved to this thread.

Good Luck to everyone who is applying to law school!!!!

I'm feeling a bit militant right now, so I need to check all people of color. It's funny how other people of color often look down their noses at Black Americans (as if they are better than we are) but they want to get in line with us for those benefits that we have fought so hard for. They don't want their daughters marrying Black men. They don't want to live in our neighborhoods, and they don't want us in theirs. They don't hire us to work with them in their stores, restaurants and shops, but they gladly take our money when we want to spend it in those same businesses. Rarely do I see anyone of Pakistanian, Venezuelan, Guatamalan, or East Indian descent eating at a soul food restaurant, for example.

They only want to be near or like Blacks when it comes to benefitting from our fight. Then they get into American col;leges and universities and avoid us like the plague. They don't extend themselves to us. They don't eat lunh with us. The females from such ethnic groups are scared of Black men and stereotype us as being loud and violent. But they neglect to thank us for making their education possible...and giving them a country in which they can truly be free. This country would not be what it is without the contributions of Blacks. And in the "ignorance" of other people of color is really just disrespect. how about thanking black Americans, past and present, for their sacrifices...sacrifices that made your freedoms possible, whether you are considered URM or not.