THAT SAID, I find it really hard to believe that they didn't have a ground transport option available. The Secret Service has been doing this a long time, they know how to deal with weather, and would have had a backup plan. Further, I'm pretty sure if the President had insisted, they would have made it happen. Security may have been a consideration in him skipping, but the real reason is probably that he just didn't want to go.

They did. Kelly and other surrogates were sent by land, and I'm pretty sure they weren't just stuck in the back of a Paris taxi.

The basic point is that, barring the sudden eruption of a global crisis, the President of the United States should have been there. Full stop.

The official response to that would be that the chief of staff and first lady require a much smaller security and support operation, and logistics were able to handle that, but the Presidential setup would have been too disruptive. That's still a bullshit excuse, but it's the one they'll make.

I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds

The official response to that would be that the chief of staff and first lady require a much smaller security and support operation, and logistics were able to handle that, but the Presidential setup would have been too disruptive. That's still a bullshit excuse, but it's the one they'll make.

Yup. And it completely ignores that every other leader present was also traveled, one way or another, to their various destinations without letting such considerations stop them.

And it's not like this was Kabul. They're in Paris, one of the world's diplomatic capitals, with a massive security apparatus already in place precisely to handle visits by world leaders.

I'd still bet that this wasn't about security or weather or anything other than Trump being a bratty dick to European leaders, panicking over Mueller, or both.

Of course there was ground transport laid on. Kelly didn't walk to the ceremony.

It could be argued that the increased transit time conflicted with Trump's densely packed schedule, but lulz...

Even if that was the case, though, as commander-in-chief of the armed services he should have attended the ceremony and rescheduled the rest of the day.

Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

Aaaaand... it turns out Trump was late to today's international commemoration of the Armistice.

He missed the crucial 11:00 a.m. ceasefire moment, something we seldom notice in the U.S. but which is always given a minute of silence in Europe. This year most of all, it was a huge gaffe for a world leader to be absent.

Oh, and apparently the other leaders traveled together in a bus to the Arc de Triomphe, with Trump requiring a separate motorcade.

Because he was expecting there to be a military parade. He likes military parades. But then Macron cancelled the parade, and I guess someone convinced Trump that he needed to go anyway, and he's mad about it.

It's really sad to see the administration passing the blame for Trump's failures to the Secret Service. I'm sure the SS imposes certain limitations on the President, and it's a legit logistical problem to deal with the security and support apparatus the President is mandated to travel with. Yes, they can absolutely use those as excuses to justify his decision to not go, but there's no way he was told "No, Mr. President, we can't get you there, and there's nothing you can do about it."

This is from Obama's Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations, who did these kinds of logistics:

if nothing else being a leader should involve owning your decisions. blaming “security” is pretty absurd. if that were actually an issue it would have been advised days ago. Petulance shouldn’t be attributed to USSS - we had no better partners in the WH

I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds

Seriously, all the coverage from the AP on down mentioned that the official reason for skipping the celebration was that the helicopter was grounded by (apparently a rather light amount of) rain.

Hah. Seriously that's not true because I've read a couple of MSM articles that make no mention of helicopters. I don't recall where, although I'm fairly sure at least one of them was a Global News article.That doesn't make what you say wrong, it just means that not everyone has taken note of it. I fully admit that I have zero interest in gathering a representative cross-section of articles and then sifting through them for helicopter references to verify. That's not actually a failing of mine. I've already granted that Max's interpretation is correct even though my experiences have been completely sans helicopters.

That said, my initial statement was a begrudging acceptance of your helicopter-themed point, but that it wasn't clear, with a strongly implied "to me" attached.

And none this would matter if that had ended it, as it should have. However someone decided that wasn't good enough and decided to point out all the reasons why I shouldn't have been confused. The polite response would have been to recognise that sometimes people fail to be observant enough, or read thoroughly enough, and let it go when the other person has already acknowledged that they are right.

It's really sad to see the administration passing the blame for Trump's failures to the Secret Service. I'm sure the SS imposes certain limitations on the President, and it's a legit logistical problem to deal with the security and support apparatus the President is mandated to travel with. Yes, they can absolutely use those as excuses to justify his decision to not go, but there's no way he was told "No, Mr. President, we can't get you there, and there's nothing you can do about it."

Hey, if they're willing to take a literal bullet for the man, they ought to be able to handle some PR flak.

It's one of the perks of the job, just like midnight fried chicken, sleeping in, and quashing all past crimes.

" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. MertonMYT

If anything, this trip to Europe is just pure Trump incompetence. He obviously went because it was the 100th Anniversary. Cool. Then he proceeds to make gaffe after gaffe over routine shit. Light rain/timeliness. All stuff that is all about his personality. He doesn't even hear the criticism as anything legitimate. Why? All of this comes down to the fact that he is a rude, garbage person. Blaming it on others is just the standard for him cherry on top.

If only he had some control over the things that come out of his mouth, he could adjust for that potentiality.

Also, I want acknowledge that I have read several articles on the cancellation subject and the majority absolutely reference helicopter woes. I realize this isn't news to you but I thought it fair to acknowledge it just the same.

I expect Trump wanted to use the helicopter for a grand entrance and when that wasn't possible, insisted he'll just stay home. Toddler in chief.

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon"I don't stand by anything." - Trump“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

By the way, when the helicopter couldn’t fly to the first cemetery in France because of almost zero visibility, I suggested driving. Secret Service said NO, too far from airport & big Paris shutdown. Speech next day at American Cemetary in pouring rain! Little reported-Fake News!

I'm really trying to parse this. If the Secret Service said no to driving, what does "too far from airport" have to do with anything?

I'm really trying to parse this. If the Secret Service said no to driving, what does "too far from airport" have to do with anything?

I believe it's all one statement. Secret Service said no, it was too far to drive (to or from the airport? Was he going there directly after landing? Or flying out directly after the ceremony? Was he staying at the airport hotel?), and that it would require a "big" shutdown of Paris roads, implying altering traffic would be too much disruption.

I'm just saying how I interpret his tweet. I don't know how valid it the tweet details are (I mean, I have no doubt it's bullshit, but if I'm informed otherwise, I will accept it), or whether my interpretation is correct.

Last edited by GreenGoo on Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm really trying to parse this. If the Secret Service said no to driving, what does "too far from airport" have to do with anything?

I believe it's all one statement. Secret Service said no, it was too far to drive (to or from the airport? Was he going there directly after landing? Or flying out directly after the ceremony? Was he staying at the airport hotel?), and that it would require a "big" shutdown of Paris roads, implying altering traffic would be too much disruption.

I'm just saying how I interpret his tweet. I don't know how valid it is (I mean, I have no doubt it's bullshit, but if I'm informed otherwise, I will accept it), or whether my interpretation is correct.

I agree with your assessment. However, I am surprised the Secret Service can tell him NO and that being empowered to do so he would ever admit to the Secret Service dictating his itinerary. Is that who we need to submit requests to? Does anyone have contact information for.... Joseph Clancy?

I'm really trying to parse this. If the Secret Service said no to driving, what does "too far from airport" have to do with anything?

I believe it's all one statement. Secret Service said no, it was too far to drive (to or from the airport? Was he going there directly after landing? Or flying out directly after the ceremony? Was he staying at the airport hotel?), and that it would require a "big" shutdown of Paris roads, implying altering traffic would be too much disruption.

I'm just saying how I interpret his tweet. I don't know how valid it the tweet details are (I mean, I have no doubt it's bullshit, but if I'm informed otherwise, I will accept it), or whether my interpretation is correct.

FWIW, he was staying at the US ambassador's residence in the center of Paris. According to Google Maps, it has a large clear lawn in the rear, but only 50 feet wide with tall trees all around. That's might be enough clearance for a helicopter in serious combat conditions, but I doubt they fly the POTUS in and out like that.

So even on the clearest day, Trump's Secret Service would still have had him in a motorcade out to Charles De Gaulle airport, 10 miles away through Paris traffic in the same direction as the cemetery Trump skipped (which was about 50 miles further on).

And, of course, one assumes that the various world leaders who did make their appointments also started the day in Paris.

He did the delete and repost because he originally misspelled "cemetery".

I wouldn't necessarily rule out that the helicopter was going to take off from the lawn behind the ambassador's house. When they land on the WH south lawn, there's also trees pretty close, and they have to land on three 10' wide discs that they put out, one wheel on each. The guys flying this thing are real good at their jobs, I bet they could get in and out of there without breaking a sweat.

I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds

He did the delete and repost because he originally misspelled "cemetery".

See, I can forgive a lot of that. I have more than a few words that are mental blackholes that I can never get right, no matter how many times I look them up. Coincidentally, Cemetery is one of them. I have a sneaking suspicion that I've mispelled it several times in this thread. Oh well. It happens. It's a blackhole and without special, dedicated effort I'm never going to get it right and I'm too old to worry about any one single word.

The more common and easy the word though, and it starts looking kinda dumb. I accept that for myself but he's supposed to be a leader of men. He should get it right most of the time.

Anywho, I'm just saying that I tend not to jump on people too much for typos and mispellings. Presumably because I'm more than a little susceptible to them myself. It's when the ideas expressed by the mispelled words are crazy that I take note and jump on.