yes I saw the premiere when they 'leaked' it on the internet (to help promote the show) watching the TV version they only cut out a few things - some of the more shocking glimpses, but the ending was so futzy on it I wasnt sure what I was seeing at the end with the missed hand grip. I really enjoyed the whole 'see a man fly' thread running thruout the story, and the way they spun that tale on its edge at the end there was beautifully played out.

I'm only sorry that the idiots who put the previews together for next week messed up and showed us the solution to the cliffhanger!! Dont you know it leave it doubt? Give us a reason to tune in? I hate people who spoil a story someone is trying to tell like that.

Let me know if you are curious to the moments clipped out or I wont drone on about them...

I disliked the fact that showed parts of the stripper scenes tho- kinda lowers the bar on the story you tell. I mean, its okay to have a character who is a stripper, or was a stripper, but its another thing to show them doing the routine. I mean, did that part just take forever to drag by or what, before they finally got to the point that she wasnt making much money when the guy wouldnt fork over 40bucks more.. I guess they are hoping to lure that big spending all important 14yr old boy crowd in, but I get real impatient waiting for the production to remember there are women in the audience.

I would love to know about the missing scenes etc that you saw or perhaps if you know the link to download it.

Interestingly, I watched it again on fri. when it re-ran on Sci Fi and they cut 2 scenes and a bit of another for that airing.

Just chipping away at it.

Re: stripper. I'd have to say I wasn't paying much attention to that issue once the titles card came on saying Las Vegas. That is my home town and once again I had to shake my head at the stereotype of the city. So I had my own personal issue over the 'stripper' scene. LOL I am curious to find out what her super power really is. right now it seems like she's a super villain...sort of...parhaps a kinf of "Hulk" that only comes out when she is angry or threatened.

I LOVED the Japanese guys, they cracked me up with all the star trek jargon.

I'm not sure exactly what the deal is with her, except her mirror self appears to be a sentient being operating on its own - when she is searching room to room for the kid, the mirrored version of her appears in mirrors on its own, hurriedly looking. Dont know how that connects to blackouts unless she faints when her mirrored self steps out -shattering the mirror? and starts slashing people. I'm waiting for the camera version of herself to start acting on its own as well, I guess... not sure where they are going with that since I'm not too familiar with those types of stories.

ooh - maybe its a familiar, of some sort?

completely spoilerish if you chasing down the clips .. I'll try and pm you with the link I was given.

Anyhow - clips ..off the top of my head, the artist bits I remember. When the girlfriend comes knocking on his door, he stares at her image in the door, painting by her side. Then she comes in and he shows her the 'evil' paintings, ending with the bus with the same # as in the newspaper. Missing bit:She says "You were high when you painted these - how do you know you didnt paint this this morning"
And he points and says "THIS is what I painted this morning!" and you see a painting of her, in the same suit, standing silhouetted in the doorway with the painting, exactly as she was a minute ago. She gasps.

Later, when he drives her out and sits there staring at the drug needle - he is seriously freaking out that he might go near it. He scrambles up and digs out a pair of handcuffs and cuffs himself down in a sitting position, with no key around him, so that he CANNOT get that drug.

When the nurse and she come back, and they find him a dying mess on the floor ... well .. he had severed his hand off to get to the drug. It was lying right there on the floor, visible only for a second and then they are back to taking care of him. Since no one is talking tourniquet or icecubes I found that very odd- I guess bcs even at the time they thought it might be too controversial to air and were instructed not to mention the hand.

I'm going to assume the artist did his own tourniquet so that he could be conscious long enough to paint and shoot himself up and that the hand is going to be reattached okay, or just not mentioned. I thought myself that it was a bit risky to take away the hand of guy whose power is in his drawings....even if it was the other hand.

Right at the end my clip gets really funny, and I wasnt aware the brother was dropped because the picture jumps too much for me to tell.

Thats what I remember off the top of my head.

The Japanese guys were hilarious .. I really enjoyed them. I dont know if it will be quite the same with only one, he needs a straight guy... maybe he'll travel back and forth a lot <g>

Since the whole theme of the pilot is that everyone is connected, and we were seeing odd connections between the various characters, I am wondering if the missing useless father of the smart kid (via strippermom) is going to be one of the characters we've seen so far.

Last edited by Mreen on Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

well -
Having seen part 2, I now see that I missed another change from the original pilot, that I hadnt even noticed.

Truthfully, the whole stripper story doesnt really grab my attention -I dont care for horror, and she seems to be one of those horror movie characters, either stripping or in covered in gore at every 3rd turn - but when she left the kid with the redhead, her son was left staring at the redhead's purse, full of money, while he sits angrily waiting for his mom.

Mom drives up (with none of the business that happened in part 2 happening, she just arrives) and her friend comes running out to tell her that her son absconded, and he stole $300 from her. Both realize he must be trying to catch a bus to see his dad. We see him, once again reading 9th Wonders, the comic book the artist who can see the future makes.

They clipped this out, and then changed everything in part 2... again for the better I think. I really enjoyed part 2, except the horror parts, but I guess they are necessary evil in mulitcharacter multistory show like this.

If you have seen ep 2, these are my wild guesses:

The politician who can fly is doomed. They stressed over and over again about 'ordinary people' and we have this guy whose name is on every poster, leaving messages on all machines. The November 8th paper has him as their headline as landslide win.

Only one of two possibilities. Either he has to give up the win to save the world, and go back anonymous business man who has a bit of greed. Or ... Sylar. (ugh) Or both, I suppose. Either way, he does not get his happy ending. And ... something is a little off with him.

I'm hoping the psychic link his younger brother has with him keeps him around - the link depends on both characters to work, obviously, so .. why kill off your guy who makes your obviously hero character more special? I mean, then he's reduced to being 'ghost who is psychically linked to hero brother' at best, and hasnt that been done?

Secondly, okay, we all know that Cheerleader Claire Bear's Daddykins is the Smoking Man of the series. But what if he's ... worse? I mean, he could be more than just one of the men in black tapping in and skulking around sniffing out heroes. He could be .. Sylar. Maybe he ate her parents brains and then arranged the adoption. Didnt Sylar spare the young girl after brutally murdering the parents in the cop bits? Is she going to show up on his doorstop next? Has he been raising Claire Bear ....like a farmer raising cattle for winter food? badthoughts badthoughts.. but just there, you know?

More ep 2 spoilers here

Speaking of skulking around on young Mohinder ... is anyone else as suspicous of the cooing young girl next door as I am? She shows up just as exterminator is leaving, happily follows strange man inside .. and - well, is Mohinder on to her? I mean, I think he was totally tipped off by the Papa Saresh thing - no one called his father Papa Saresh! And he is not a lizard person .. wouldnt go anywhere near lizard Mohinder. The more I think about it, the more suspicious she seems - I mean, I saw the ep Mon, by Wed I cant imagine her NOT being a sneak, but I dont think Mohinder is a dummy. I think he's playing along, and letting her know he knows she needs him alive.

The lizard is going to be important tho - did you see how the data looked like Matrix display, with dark lizard frescos running thru it in different shading? They want him to crack the code, we just have to Mohinder is smart enought to use them just enough to stay ahead of them. And Sylar.

Of course ... this is all wild speculation and I could be going completely up the wrong tree ..... I could shut up if they bother anybody. Its not like each ep doenst have enough to talk about on its own without me jumping half a season ahead in guess work.

Last edited by Mreen on Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

OMG, could Hiro and his friend be any funnier? They can't be on the screen for two minutes before I am helplessly laughing out loud - what a comedy pair! "Its destiny!"

A wonderful relief for the nearing horror in the other peoples lives ... in fact, things are turning so tragic that they all need that pair to come racing in and lighten things up, and save the day for them. With the comic book from the future <g>

Thanks for the link M'Reen. I haven't tried it yet. Will let you know.

re theories: SPOILERS NOW!

I think the smart son knows where his dad is.
I think we are being set up to think that the father is Sylar.
However, i think it's possible/probable that SHE killed all of the fathers 'crew' and doesn't know it. Either way, he sounds like a shadey character.

I don't think "smoking gun man" is Sylar. It would complicate the story too much and not in a good way.

I LOVED the endingof ep 3!! how would you feel in that situation? I feel bad for Claire becausse there just aint no going home now.

Agree Hiro and friend are a hoot.

Neighbor girl, definitely suspicious.

Flying brothers. I'm convinced they are like the Wonder Twins. I don't think either of them can fly on their own. I think they both need ot be present. So how would that be? You're a super hero except your big brother wont play.

I'm also watching but if I continue to do so it will because of Hiro and his friend who are screamingly funny. Oh, and I like the physic cop also.

At first I really liked the brothers also but when the politician turned on his brother in such a public manner I realized "Oh crap, so it's the old 'one is good, one is evil' ploy." Turned out I was right, as the promos were kind enough to freaking show me. The promos on this show give away far too much.

Hello to the hottie cab driver/professor's son. However, I don't trust the obviously placed waif as being good. I suppose she's one of Sylar's minions.

Poor Claire! Between her evil adopted father and again, the curse of the previews, she's in for a long ride of it.

The stripper with the misanthropic reflection gives me the creeps. She needs some definition. In fact, many of these characters need to speed up in the progression department.

Whereas I love the artist, I wish that heroin was not featured in his storyline.

Smoking man may, or may not, be Silar. Heck, for all we know, Nathan (shark brother) may be Silar, and his picture up there was just a starting point. His face is kept hidden, but we know he's a thin athletic guy who may have everybody elses powers combined - he popped up after being shot, and seemngly flew to the roof. Suspicious waif - I peg her more as working for the Smoking Man's men in black group than Silar (whether or not they are working in the dark from him being Silar, or simply rivals on tracking down our 'heroes' before he does)- but maybe Silar morphs shapes? She certainly knew something was behind that curtain that she didnt want Mohindar (cute professor's son) to see and tried to rush him out before he saw ....

Theories galore - um, imaginary spoilers for what I see coming

The actor playing dead professor (on the back of the bookjacket) is the same one who appears in a lot of stuff - he was Daniel's father in law in Stargate and SG-1, a different actor than the pilot. Of course, we only got a 2second look and I could be wrong, but I thought it was him. This makes me think we're going to see him again somehow. He may be dead, or not. Flashback, dreamfigure, timetraveling visit, shapeshifter, not really dead? But he's definately waiting in the wings to surprise Mohinder at some stragetically suspenseful point.

That kid definately knows where his dad is - but he clearly believes his dad can never be found. Which leads us to the question ...

This alter ego in the mirror .. could it be that it's not her? Is that how his Dad is hiding, appearing in the mirror as whover he's focused on, scowling at her stripping act and then saving her from attackers? Either way, this alter ego is connected to DL somehow - how could she possibly know where DL's crew was buried- I was thinking, just as you were, she could have been the one to kill them and bury them there as well as DL. Or maybe they are one and the same person. If not, does violent DL love her alter ego more than the stripper mom? questions questions questions.. all of wrapped up on a horror/stripper plot that is just not my kind of thing. I like the kid, even if ..well, he's a little annoying with his devoted to Dad thing, scowling at mom thing, he's got going on. She's shlepping around in her bathrobe, scowl*, he's accused of murder and robbery, support - doesnt that just bug you "What did you do, Mom?'"Why dont you believe in Dad, you should be trying to help him!" We get it, he favors Daddy, just like Grandma.

*whether or not he understands why she's shlepping*

(also, as much as you dislike your mother in law, do you drive out to see her to escape trouble, and in the same few minutes tell her you want her out of her grandson's life?? If ever there was a time to put up with motherinlaw superiority complex with platitudes and white lies, that was it!)

As for the Wonder Twins - I have my own theory"

yeah yeah ... but really - its not that they can only fly together, its that Nathan can fly! Maybe Peter can too, maybe he'll discover how to on his own eventually - theyare brothers- but, he only flies when he's near his brother!

(and Nathan is a shark, selfish and scared - I dont know if he's evil.. tho the absent wife at the fundraiser certainly is a giant red flag for evil)

I think Peter's powers are sympathetic, he absorbes from those around them. Did you see his stick figure drawing he made earlier .. a representation of the future, that evening flying on the roof. Pity he wasnt more artistic, so we dont have better figures. He did that the day after treating the artist who OD -

I thought his power would be to sense whenever his brother was in trouble and organize the others to save him, but it looks like his ability isnt limited to relatives. I wonder if his dad had all those same feelings and the ability just hadnt come out yet, driving him to depression, like birds gone mad unable to follow the instinct to fly...

um - literally, in that case.

I'm glad someone else posted tho - I starting to think it was like a private conversation with myself here.

I think the first two eps were about psyching us up and inspiring the characters, and the 3rd ep was about frustration, (with the sole exception of our comic following travelers <g>) but I think that we'll get some great payoff for the frustration, maybe sooner rather than later. I dont think they are willing to risk the viewer numbers by making us wait too long ...

Hey Mreen, yes, I noticed you in here by yourself and figured I'd give a shout. Okay, here we go, in no particular order.

I agree, the stripper's story line is somewhat wearing. Almost everything in her life is coated in grit and grime. Her son, a standard issue moppet, obviously has something going on. Mom's alter ego, or whatever inhabits her reflection should be terrifying but instead I ended up wondering "Huh, what would happen if she just stayed away from mirrors?" It's difficult to invest in a seeming villain that has no lines.

The mother-in-law wore on my last nerve, but given the tension in there relationship, like you I was left wonder "And you went there because...you were hungry for a slice of judgement pie?" It was an exercise in futility to cover the need for some exposition. The exposition we needed, the general unpleasantness of the MIL character I could have lived without. I feel as if the storyline is asking for my sympathy and then deny me that emotion at every turn. I was irritated when she was tooling around in the dead baddie's car, because that comes up under the "Duh, don't do that!" clause issued to all. Also, there are elements of her story that thus far are over-the-top. The ultra junky car she drove fit her circumstances and I could practically smell it. But the field of bodies less than an inch under the surface? Explain, writers. Just a frelling hint will do. I look forward to being able to start piecing it together.

Nathan and Peter. Good thoughts on Peter having an empathic ability. Peter's love interest story, okay, well she can die as far as I'm concerned. No spark there but I do like Peter, sure he whines a bit, but his very existence has become an exercise in confusion.

Whoa, when Nathan stabs metaphorically, he plunges that dagger deep. The world's most uncomfortable dress up outing brought to you be gotta-be-evil politician. That "My brother's failed suicide attempt..." came with mass and was shaped like a gauntlet. It also was a tad hair raising because Nathan is currently stronger than Peter. Peter needs to find some other heroes fast.

Waif of convenient placement and the singingly hot guy, ditch the waif (or define her - my husband said "ENTER THE BAD GUY IN DISGUISE. DECOY." when she first appeared onscreen).

Actually, that's what I like about the show. Everyone is in close proximity to someone that is a danger. Except for Hiro, but he and his friend ("It's destiny!" marvelous) are headed towards stripper girl. I fervently hope they don't do in Hiro's cute friend after their cute rescue mission of the schoolgirl. I don't think they will, Hiro needs someone to communicate with.

Sylar thus far is an interesting concept. Not as chilling as they want him/it/them to be but they are building nicely. That's one character/entity they don't need to rush.

Claire cannot get away from her exceptionally creepy dad soon enough to suit me and may she please grab her sweet, geek friend on the way away from him. Previews indicate that she's key in bringing the gang together though. I wish they hadn't shown that moment evidently weeks before it happens. I was definitely looking forward to it. Although, poor Claire, fileted on the autopsy table (waking up...EEEK) was quite the show stopper.

That's where I recognized Mohinder's father from, I believe you are right. That's Sha're's dad. It does make sense that he will appear later. Also, you know the rule, offscreen death? Does it stick or not?

I know who will be playing Nathan's wife. Rena Sofer. She's due along shortly.

No spoilers above, accept for a casting confirmation. Hence no warning.

I'll keep watching, I just hope that NBC sticks it out and doesn't pull a premature cancellation. They are so desperate for a hit at present that they are tanking shows without giving them a chance to get off the ground. Kidnapping was cancelled before they could even properly take its pulse.

Heroes has been dropping in ratings since a very solid premiere and seems to have leveled out, maintaining approximately the same numbers in the second and third episode. It's looking good.

The most obvious thing I can see coming is the artist meeting with an untimely death. There is no way to maintain his storyline since his ability to paint the future is tied to the use of heroin. Unless they give him an alternate way of fuguing out and painting? Then again, the second episode entailed his fate (gruesome) in Hiro's comic book.

Cooincidentally I love that storytelling device. It fits Hiro's character to a tee. We've already decided that Hiro has to remain safe. Obviously his ability to move through time in both directions will be a key determining factor.

I'm not sure that Silar has all the abilities, but I do wonder if he negates abilities. What was with the ulta creepy guy that the cop saw? Not the shadowy figure, the African American that gave up blinking for Lent and just kept on with his non blinking ways? That guy was creepy to the extreme.

In terms of the stripper. In some religions it is forbidden to have your image captured in a photograph, believing that it takes part of your soul. I wonder if her mirror images rage issues are a play on that theme? She interests me the least at present, but that may improve if Hiro reaches her. Her little boy is an unknown quantity but he did hit the "Uh oh." meter once, as he slept on and on in the broiling sun and then awoke just as his mom had finished burying the evidence of slaughter it occurred to me that the image is not her exhusband, but her son. He disapproves of her but does love her.

Nathan, well I was inadvertantly spoiled to a lot of that and won't say anything. Peter I'm in the dark about though. If you are correct (and it fits, since he is a caretaker, something that relies on empathy and kindnes) then he should truly benefit from being around the good others. Conversely, I worry for him in the company of anyone that is not good.

Mohinder is the character that seems to be pegged to unlock mysteries. Well cast guy. Aside from the "A male model that can act!" fun of him, he carries his scenes well and with import. I don't think that's an accident. I've seen him before playing a vastly different role. His life I think is in very serious jeopardy.

What the comic book revealed I think answers a lot of questions about Sylar. He is (this is a guess) the embodiment of evil. Fairly standard bad guy fair but I think what feeds his evil is the darker nature we all contain. Hence his shadowy appearance. He and his cronies obviously wish to end the world.

Okay, well it's midnight and I should go. Final thought for the night?

I think that the Heroe with the least impressive power, the cop will be key to Sylar and his motivations and plans. Pity that Clea Duvall is listed as a guest star. Every time she's onscreen I start ticking away life seconds for her.

On the stripper - and I keep forgetting to mention this because her character just doesnt grab interest the way all the others do- from the very first moment I saw her, I thought the mirror was herself, 6-9m in the future,(or 1yr) peeking back in, coming back to protect her younger self with the knowledge gained from hanging out in the group after they get together. I thought the last few eps of this season we'd see the same scenes from the other point of view, her frowning at her old job, nodding agreement to telling off the principal of Snob Middle School, and then attacking from the mirror, bursting forth with all she's learned. I thought the missing time from when she opens the camera then wakes up with the changed clothes at the airport, was her future self coming back again (thru the camera) and getting the car, bodies ready and then taking off to fly someplace, abandoning her past self at the airport as she resumed her future body. I just assumed that how it was - and really, it would explain how she knew the dead bodies were there already. (tho the inch from surface thing is a little creepy - I was thinking they might be the bodies she was about to bury, petrified from the future, that when she opened the trunk, they could even be gone. That's what the ring was to be about, I thought. It would match the body in the trunk if they werent gone.)

Then I got the DL body idea and went off on that tangent. Son? oooh. no I hope not. He still reads the 9th Wonders comic book that the artist writes and makes pinhole cameras for telescopes...little tyke like that cant be the bad guy - ugh! Well, I'm just going to assume its not him, unless they slam it in my face.

Still cant quite figure how this camera/mirror self works tho .. there has to be some link to a reality above the mysticism .. I think. At least that appears to be the type of reality the show is invested in, some type of physics involved. (okay, yeah, I know there are no physics for flight, but I figure its related to telekinetics, which Sylar uses to make others fly - before turning them to pincushions. His freeze power is just weird, tho.)
Still think he eats brains to absorb the power of his victim - bet daddy was telekinetic and hid daughter's room behind the table and lamp by shifting furniture with his mind before mom and dad was killed. I know that doesnt fit with him being killed before he lift the spoon to his hand to eat the cereal, but thats the only way I can see her being left there like that instead of taken off to be adopted by Smoking man or eaten for her potential inheritance of genes.

I think the Men in Black and Sylar are at odds with another, fighting to get hold of the most of 'heroes' - Sylar for food, Men In Black for the Mengula School of Science. Which is why I pegged Smoking Man as Sylar in week 2, because I thought what better way to hide from the Men In Black than to get a high level position with them? Still, it might not be him.

I hope its not the artist. It cant be bcs it killed him, but he looked so creepy in the promos...

I dont think they need to kill the artist. I figure, if Peter can daydream and ramble off a stick figure of the future, he can, as a nurse, create a program to wean Isaac off the drugs while helping him search out the future. Eventually Isaac wont need the drugs to draw .. he'll only need them for his addiction, which can then be tackled properly. Pretty lady can donate Dad's leftover goods, since he's due to die in a day or so. (I think she's a very together character - yeah she doesnt believe the artist, but lets face it, no matter what proof you see, the story 'I need them to see the future' is just the sort of false psychology addicts use all them time. "I cant create without my drugs!") I like her too.. I'm just waiting to see which way she turns in the next two telling eps (no, I never look at spoilers, or future casting, I just watch and speculate like mad)

Claire Bear is definitely not having a good day, and yes, if she's smart, she'll grab the geek. Daddy did give her good advice, and pegged trouble when he saw it. After all, he should know a creep when he sees one. Of course, geek is already under surveillance, they pegged him as having the tape within the day, so it wont help her stay free, but he might come up with some good ideas while the two of them are being hunted.

Nathan - yeah, your imagery was pretty descriptive. ((shudder)) I suppose its revenge, at some level, for Peter jumping and then threatening to jump again to force the truth from him. We know he loved his brother enough to leap out of himself to save him once, and enough to tell him the whole truth instead of just that yes Nathan flew, the second time, but his basic nature is selfish. When other people are in trouble he first thinks of how bad it makes him look. Yelled at him mom till Peter made him leave, for acting out in her grief. "Just get over it!" that's where he is with Peter now .. but there's bound to be a turn soon. In one direction, or another. Could go either way with Nathan the shark.

I have to say, I am really looking forward to the next couple of eps...

Last edited by Mreen on Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I like the future self looking back idea about the stripper. However, I hope that's not it because we already havr a time traveler on board, in Hiro.

And time travel makes for sloppy television IMHO.

Peter absorbing powers is interesting though I don't see your reasoning the same way. I still lean on he can only fly with his brother...much like in real life. When he cuts ties and stands on his own, I think he will fly. This presumes that Nathan can fly on his own...which I'm still not sure about....the more I think about it, I still think they both need to be together to fly.

actually I'm thinking all their powers are related - they have the genome for the next level, they all might only access a power or two, but might have some sort of capablity to all of them. Maybe not as well, but the spark might be there.

And ... what if it is time travel - maybe that is what Hiro is driving there to help her with, maybe the traveling back in time comes from him as he helps her use her powers.. or.. you know, not.

That lizard fresco in the matrix of algorythems Mohinder was looking at, is apparently just that odd s/f curve with the 3 branches. The Men In Black non blinking black guy was wearing in a chain around his neck, and Sylar put the hose in the pool in that symbol at his family killing spree with the cop. (Matt Parkman, LA policeman by pool in his opening bit ep 3) and the artist painted several paintings of it before he died in the future.

I figure it is a representation of the gene they all have to give them the powers, like the Xgene in Xmen. I guess its all in how their brains are wired in what way they are able to access that power, hence our brain eating horror villian (yech) - I mean I dont mind the stalking so much, but he's a pretty gross killer when he kills. I dont blame Hiro for fainting!

I think eventually Peter can fly on his own, because he is from the same gene pool as his brother - I'm sure Nathan can fly on his own now if he chose to - I just think its currently empathic because that's where Peter starts out, a greater sense of others than himself, tho he's clearly growing in his self image. In leaps and bounds.

But yes, we will certainly have to wait and see what happens and which of these wild theories we've sprinkled about will work!

It's Saturday already ... can I actually be looking forward to Monday on a Saturday? So weird....