Should people still be using core builds in ranked?

I feel like I'm in a disadvantage having a teammate that has a core build especially now in the PoF era and with firebrand being able to counter so many of those core builds pretty well. I've played a couple of matches tonight and of course I lost them all cause someone was running a core build which makes the fights even more stressful on the team I dunno if it's just a fluke but does core really have a future in the PoF era?

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Core, warrior, guardian, engineer, and ranger all have builds that work better with the base specialization rather than elite due to trait synergy or mechanics. Firebrand countering builds has more to due with the fact that its a really strong support, more than anything else.

Find out what you enjoy most about a class, make a build that will get you the most out of it, and play it. Don't let any screeching nerd tell you otherwise. If you're good, you'll reach plat regardless of what you play. It's only when you face other good people that your build starts to matter.

I still play core war in ranked and even if I don't have same survival as spellbreaker... I make more damage and I can beat a bunch of spellbreakers in 1 vs 1 specially if using rampage (i rather always push far, eventually take close)... Sometimes I have ppl calling me noob and blocking me just because I lost far in 1 vs 2... (It happens in 30% of the case other 70% I can disengage, and I dont mind being called a noob since I am a noob)...
I also have another f2P account placed on gold 1/2 that I play mainly core necro and eventually core Mesmer... 2 professions that are much less performing without exp (of any kind)...
I just avoid FB, I have no problems with other professions.

Core S/D thief is A tier, maybe meta after scourge/SB nerfs. They do extremely well against Holosmith, Weaver, Mirage. Core guard is viable, A- strength build. Right now, core Ele Fresh Air is super good because it is hardly affected by Scourge and Spellbreaker damage due to its kiting and consistent range damage. A+ tier as long as Scourge and Spellbreaker get spammed

These three builds are the real core heroes. These builds do work in ANY tier, if in the right hands. High plat, low legend even.

Edit: So yes players should be using these builds if they're good at the classes already with some playtime investment. A really new scourge learning his buttons will still probably randomly kill things but core builds have their place.

Hey. I've been playing only with core builds for the past two years since the game went free to play. In the beginning, it was quite alright, felt really balanced, and I had a lot of fun with many builds. Nowadays, my engineer main cannot really find a good and/or fun build that actually works. I've tried builds that used to work, but now they don't. I just take too much damage too fast, and there's AoE everywhere. I recently upgraded to the expansions and started using Scrapper, which has given me a better chance at winning games.
Personally I don't like how core builds have become obsolete in many cases. I'm sure there are still viable builds, but in reality mostly elite specs are used now.

@Cosminion.5042 said:
Hey. I've been playing only with core builds for the past two years since the game went free to play. In the beginning, it was quite alright, felt really balanced, and I had a lot of fun with many builds. Nowadays, my engineer main cannot really find a good and/or fun build that actually works. I've tried builds that used to work, but now they don't. I just take too much damage too fast, and there's AoE everywhere. I recently upgraded to the expansions and started using Scrapper, which has given me a better chance at winning games.
Personally I don't like how core builds have become obsolete in many cases. I'm sure there are still viable builds, but in reality mostly elite specs are used now.

maybe one day arenanet change the specs a way you can do anything without elite specs, but you get bether at something by using one (like you dmg reaches, but for that your not more that well at all things like before)

The point of ranked games that you are matched with similar MMR players. If someone can do better with a core build than the enemy does with an elite spec, then why not? I used to play MM f2p ranger a lot in ranked without a problem playing around mid gold last season. I couldn't go as high as with my Chronomancer on my other account, but that's the point of the MMR system.

Take Reaper, Scourge, Holosmith and Spellbreaker, they have tradeoffs.
With Reaper and scourge, you lose the death shroud and instead get the reaper shroud or the shad shroud skills.
Holosmith trades the elite toolbelt skill for the holoforge.
Spellbreaker trades the 3 stages of adrenaline for 2 stages that have the same skill.

When elite specializations are like that, you have to lose a bit to gain a bit. There's a tradeoff that keeps something unique for the core profession.
I'd go with more of that, by making all core professions have something that is lost when an elite specialziation is placed in the elite sepcialization slot. So elite specializations aren't never just just "additional gameplay" but instead always "different gameplay".

Guardian - Virtue of Humility : Sometimes you don't want Justice or other passives to trigger and give you its effects, or they are useless like fire against destroyers and fire elementals or aegis against enemies spamming unblockable attacks. Virtue of Humility would be a new F4 skill unique to core guardian. It'd be a toggle that disables the passive Virtue effects, but in exchange while it is toggled on it increases a bit your Power, Healing Power and Vitality stats and reduces the recharge of virtues by 10%.

Dragon hunter and firebrand would lose Humility.

Revenant - Energy Tap : This skill would be in the F2 slot for core revenant, and it would restore energy. For example, it could fill the energy, but have a long cooldown of 90s or more. Or reduce or remove the cost of the next skill used. Or tether to an enemy and recover energy while it's tethered. Or get attached to an enemy and recover energy when hitting that enemy or when that enemy is killed.

Herald and Renegade would lose the energy tap skill, replaced their their own extra profession skills.

Scrapper - Action Gyro : The Function Gyro can be underwhelming against large enemy groups in WvW and in PvE where enemies hardly ever go downed and allies are revived easily with F because people stack more. The Action Gyro would be a second Gyro that appears over the scrapper's other shoulder when it's ready. It'll be a skill with charges, but instead gaining charges over time it'll gain charges by interrupting enemies with control effects, damaging defiance bars, and with kills. When used it'll have a situational effect that helps in combat and can be used in a few different ways, and that deals damage and a form of control like stun or daze. It could be used, for example, to interrupt an enemy trying to finish an ally that you are reviving with the Function Gyro.

Holosmith already replaces the elite toolbelt.

Ranger - Tag! : F5 in the core ranger could be a skill that summons the alternate pet. It could be an 'assist', so it'll appear do its pet attack and leave; or a 'tag attack' that makes the pet appear and do its attack, and swap with the other pet like when doing a swap attack in fighting games with tag matches like Marvel vs. Capcom.

Druid and Soulbest would replace this F5 attack with their own F5 skills.

Thief - Pockets : The core thief would have an additional F3 slot for a second stolen skill. The trait "Improvisation" would no longer give 2 uses of a stolen skill, and instead it'll give a an additional F4 pocket slot. If any stolen skill slot is empty, stealing will put the last stolen skill in leftmost empty slot instead replacing a existing one.

Daredevil and Deadeye would lose the extra pockets, and for them Improvisation would work like now, letting them use the stolen skill twice.

Elementalist - Elemental Lord : Core elementalist could have an F5 skill that can recharge all attunements when activated. This skill would have 2 max charges and 10s cooldown, but the charges will not have a cooldown themselves, instead, the skill will gain a charge after attuning to each of the 4 elements.

Tempest and Weaver would lose Elemental Lord to gain their unique attuning mechanics.

Necromancer - Necromancer already has tradeoffs, Reaper trades the ranged death shroud for the melee reaper shroud, and Scourge trades it for the sand shroud that replaces the extra healthbar with temporary barriers.

I'm actually impressed how well designed Guardian is now, across all 3 specializations. If Arenanet can bring the other 8 classes up to the same standard of innovation, function and balance we'd be in a really

There are a lot of strong core builds right now. If you exclude the outliers(scourge, spellbreaker, firebrand), they are very competitive against other elite spec builds.

Let me just briefly list:
Retaliation core guard. Lots of damage and decent sustain. Much easier to play than dragonhunter and is still effective.
GS/LB core warrior. Okay damage, tons of sustain and anti-condition. Very good duelist overall.
S/D power core thief. Top duelist with relatively low risk. Only counter is D/P thief.
P/P condi core engi. High condi burst and decent survivability. Slightly less than meta but not bad at all.
Fresh air core ele. High damage and decent sustain. Only hard counter is good thief.

I've always played core Mesmer. mainly I like the challenge of core professions over elites. ive never really got any complaints from teammates in games I tend to get more compliments for playing well. but that down more to my awareness and tactics than the profession. I still refuse to use elites in pvp they need more draw backs to their mechanics to be balanced or the trait lines made really weak for the bonus mechanics. need core only ranked games be great see ppls skill levels without the powercreep carrying a lot of them.

Core builds should be competitive IMO. You shouldn't be obliged to purchase an expansion just to be competitive in PvP. When core builds are underpowered then this should get some tweaking in the next balance patch to make them competitive again.

Ascalon Will Prevail!

@ellesee.8297 said:
Find out what you enjoy most about a class, make a build that will get you the most out of it, and play it. Don't let any screeching nerd tell you otherwise. If you're good, you'll reach plat regardless of what you play. It's only when you face other good people that your build starts to matter.

Very true. This is a video game, and your own personal enjoyment should come before the perceived enjoyment of others. You should be playing first for yourself.

I currently like to play Rifle + P/P Deadeye, because it is very fun for me. At the start of every game I told my team I was not a "decap" Thief. I reached plat using my fun pew pew build, but you can bet your butt that in the case of a loss it was "Thief we lost because you didn't decap." (No, you lost because you couldn't beat the enemy, but you need someone to blame, and it can't possibly be because you fought players that were above your skill level - you're the best player you know!) But the countless times that I was showered with post-game medals (Most Damage, Kills, Defense, Offense, etc...) nobody seemed to give me praise for being effective.

It'd be interesting if they made one core spec a 'Core Elite specialization', that you also can't take with other Elite specializations. Not sure if it'd work, it could make many current builds unviable, but maybe it'd add some diversity and introduce some more interesting builds. Or not. As if it'd ever happen anyway. Bshrug

Every core should work as much elites work. Elites should mean there’s stronger specialization on what that class do, sadly anet uses elites to sell game and overbuff them and puts a vertical progression on the elites overperformance ence why games end unbalanced sometimes way to much for a game that calls himself balanced.