hopefully this will support SATA drives. i had to use a patched version of the slackware 10.0 CD to get it installed.

i'm worrying about the most stubborn person in the galaxy ;-) no, serious, i've loads of respect for his independency and his display of responsibility for slackware. he doesn't accept donations while he is nearly starving, how does this great man compare to us all. we would become beggars in a situation like his one.

To buy the next Slackware, if you already didn't. It is the primary way you can help supporting Slackware Linux, and, more importantly, somebody who dedicated much of his energy to the community for over 10 years.

Well, I have to say I can't trust Slackware any more.
After using Slackware since version 8 and being very happy with it, I must say the recent events brought some conserns.
First of all, communicating via changelog is fine for a home-grown, hobby, amaturish app, but not for an enterprise class OS distribution.
There should have been clear announcements on Slackware.com site about all the events and also a solid, and quickly implemented procedures as to who takes over with Slacware if Pat is not able to maintain it.
In particular, and this is what shocked me most, there was no word about security updates. Not on Slackware.com not on Linux packages, nowhere at all.
If I didn't dig through forums on several sites I would have had no idea where to look for security updates.
One could even deduce, from Slackware.com that Slackware is a dead, unmainained distro.
There should've been clear announcements about workgus and slacksec on both Slackware.com and linuxpackages.net and they should have been kept at the top of the news section.
If Pat wants to act like a "lone star sherrif" , so be it, but that's not the way to run a distro that so many people depend on.
I was going to oder next version of Slackware but I'm tired of playing a detective trying to figure out what's going on and where the next security update will come from.
I'll be looking for an alternative distro like Debian or Gentoo instead and save my money for someone who actually cares about their users.
I do wish Pat good luck and hope he recovers from his illness.

"First of all, communicating via changelog is fine for a home-grown, hobby, amaturish app, but not for an enterprise class OS distribution."

Since when has Slackware been an "enterprise class distro"? It has never claimed to be. If you're rolling out hundreds or thousands of Linux boxes in big business, you go with RHEL, SUSE etc.

Slackware is for people who can support it themselves. Pat has provided very swift security and bugfix updates over the years -- but it's a free product, there are no guarantees, and people who don't bear that in mind before installing are making the wrong choice.

"and quickly implemented procedures as to who takes over with Slacware if Pat is not able to maintain it."

This is covered in the ChangeLog. If Pat becomes unable to maintain Slackware, he has stated that a few trusted hackers can carry on the work. This is a wise decision; Slack's strength has always been in its single-leader organisation, so handing it over to a small group of trusted developers will maintain the distro's simplicity, performance and design.

IMO this is better than letting a whole community bicker and argue over the future of the distro -- it could become messy, fragmented and bloated.

Here's hoping Pat makes a speedy recovery and continues his work on what is, to me personally, the best distro out there. Very much looking forward 10.1 :-)

I'm sorry mate, but I find your attitude a little offensive. I mean, don't you think you're being unfair and insulting to Pat?

"Well, I have to say I can't trust Slackware any more."

Why exactly can't you "trust" Slackware, and what are these "conserns" (sic) of yours?

You seem to think that Pat owes it to you to create a "enterprise class OS distribution". Firstly, what precisely is an "enterprise class OS distribution", and secondly, when has Slackware ever claimed to be anything other than a distribution made by Pat for those who actually *know what they are doing* ?

"If I didn't dig through forums on several sites I would have had no idea where to look for security updates."

This is the biggest load of FUD I've read all day. For one thing, it was plastered all over Slashdot several time (yes, security updates were mentioned), it was all over OSNews (likewise, security updates were mentioned), it was on the front page of Slackware.com etc.

And why do you have to speak like a wanker, with "In particular, and this is what shocked me most...". Dude, you sound like either a crochetty old granny, or an anally retentive whiner. It "shocked" you - jeez...

"If Pat wants to act like a "lone star sherrif" , so be it, but that's not the way to run a distro that so many people depend on."

What gives you the right to dictate what Pat decides to do? This isn't Redhat, or Novell, he hasn't charged you to download his work (no, donations do not count), you aren't paying him for 24/7 support - he's volunteering his time, effort and energy

"Cares" about their users? I think this is really slack (pun not intended =), sorry) on Pat - it's obvious that he *does* care immensely for his users, and I challenge you to point to one example where he's intentionally neglected him, or forgotten about them.

I mean, the guy's been sick - do you really expect him to get up out of his sick-bed straight away to make another release for you, just because you're too lazy to click a couple of links?

"I'll be looking for an alternative distro like Debian or Gentoo instead and save my money for someone who actually cares about their users."

Excuse me? "Save my money"? Since when has Slackware, Debian, Gentoo or any other distro asked you for money to use their work? If you donate, that's your choice (which I assume you have, from your self-righteous drivel).

Just out of curiosity, how many copies of Slackware have you purchased? How much money have you actually donated to the project? I'd be interested to compare the money you've donated with others in the Slackware community - I think they could do without you and your donations.

<<<RE:he doesn't accept donations while he is nearly starving, how does this great man compare to us all. we would become beggars in a situation like his one.>>>

i wonder what Pat would do if someone sent him some money anonymously with no return address, so he has only the choice of either cashing the check to buy grocerys & pay bills or throwing good money in the trash???

I had used slack for a while from 9.1 and 10.0 and I think Pat deserve one retirement (first your health) and the community don't must pressionate to continue.And it's true ... slack is in danger to continue with the same quality.

Ok, enterprise class maybe stretching it but the fact is that it's meant for more than just a simple desktop distro, it includes all the major servers and from what I hear people use Slackware to run servers so therefore my wording.

Slackware maybe for people who can support themseves but the fact is a lot of newbies are installing it and end up rinning servers out of the box.

And the fact is there have been no security updates from slackware.com since November 1, 2004.
And there was no mention about the Slacksec and WorkGUS places on Slackware (WorkGUS is now listed but it took quite a while).
I understand that Pat had his share of problems but how hard is it to have someone he trusts to add a few lines to Slackware.com web site letting people know where to get security updates?

Again, you refere to the changelog, and again I say that's not the right place to communicate.
And I never said that he should give Slackware out to the community, I said that *whoever* is taking care of Slackware should communicate with the rest of Slackware users.
But we haven't heard from anyone for over TWO MONTHS!
I respect your moderate tone because I am aware that I've raised a very difficult issue and no doubt will ofend some people.

You can find my attitude whatever you like.
Like in post above, the fact is there was a breakdown in communications, no security updates since Nov 1, 2004.
Sure, Pat doesn't owe Slackware users anything, but what kind of argument is that?
If you want people to use your distro then you do owe them at least the minimum courtesy of posting a few words on a web site.
So according to your logic, if I want to use Slackware I'm required to read Slashdot and OSNews?
And the sidenote about GUS-BR is so easy to miss it's not even funy. Besides, the Samba package from them is broken and unusable, and they posted Xorg 6.8.1 and then pulled it shortly after with some excuse. So much for trusted sources.
It's simply a mess.
Your argument about Slackware being free so Pat doesn't owe anyone anything is kind of hollow.
There is such thing as professional pride in what you do and some basic courtesy to your customers (users).
I did not say, and this is where you're inventing the FUD, that Pat had to get out of bed and work on Slackware.
I said he should've been more direct and post some news about the whole situation on his web site and that he should've had some trusted people take over the maintenance of Slackware right away and not wait for two months.
Instead people have to play detectives and learn about stuff from some IRC, FTP, or whatever place Pat likes to post his "news".
It's unprofessional and it makes Slackware look unprofessional.
I have nothing agaist Pat, I'm just stating that he could've communicated better with his users.
And I don't owe you any figures how much I spend on what.
And your opinion is noted.
I'll refrain from returning your childish insults.

I must agree, I didn't know where to get security updates for Slack until recently. And I must say that I also expected an announcement for the 10.1 beta on the frontpage. But I won't go saying that I don't 'trust' a distro for not doing so!
I think Pat really does care about the users but not in a way that you will expect. The man can be described as a "lone star sherrif" and I think in effect that reflects on the distro: you have to be a lone star sheriff yourself to really get your system the way you want it. And that's what I like about Slack, being sheriff of my own system.
But if you don't like it, try another distro, but don't go telling that you don't 'trust' Slack, 'cause that just doesn't make sense.

First off let me start by saying, I love Slackware. This distro has served me well over the years. But with all the new problems cropping up, I'm going to wait until version 11.0 is out before I upgrade my servers. Besides it'll make version 11.0 seem all that more impressive ;-P

Seriously though, it is nice to see Pat getting better, and getting back into the saddle. Pat you are an amazing person, and Slackware has immortalized you IMHO.

Load of a$$kissers here. I don't even know if Pat likes that. I agree with Anonymous ( .bchsia.telus.net). And that comes from somebody using slack from version 8 and pay from 9 up. I believe is time for Pat to realize that a project like that can't be maintained by a single person. Remember , is the name people will go after. Everybody knows Slackware and everyone is jealous seeing how it grows.But there's a saying , the greater the height you fall from , the greater the pain you'll experience.
Just my 0.02.

i would not say ass kissers, more like a large group of Slackware users that are actually concerned for a Linux distro that works quite well for them (including me) i tried a lot of distros (dozens) and Slackware just works best for my purposes...

Dude, you've got to remember Slackware is provided 'as is' with no warranty of any kind. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone promised anything to you. If you don't like it, you can always stick with MS Windows - they provide security updates almost every day - and also phone support.

I think he came back to soon. He needs to get healthy first before he starts back in on his distro like he had been doing. However, he loves his distro so much and likes to please the people that need to be up to date all the time that he is working on -current and updating the changes in the change log. I think he feels bad that 10.1 was close to release when he was really sick and wants to get it to the masses asap (MHO, the reason why no security updates to 10.0 lately). To some, this is not enough, to others that have had health issues of there own, it's amazing he is doing as much as he is while he is still sick. At the moment, he is doing the best that he can. If that is not enough for you, there are always other distro's that you can try (he even mentioned Ubuntu as an alternative if you want a nice Gnome experience). As for me, I'm happy waiting till he is fully recovered and back to his old self.

@ Witek
Your argument is at least lame if not totaly absurd.
You can buy an old wrecked car "as is", or a used vacum cleaner in a thrift shop "as is" but you don't choose an OS "as is".
People are depending on Slackware to run there workstations, servers, and business' and "as is" will not last very long in todays competitive OS market.
Besides, where did I say I was demanding anything.
I just said that Pat should communicate with his customers better.
The security updates are out there, it's just that they are not very well advertised so the newbies that are fresh to Linux are left with potentialy unsecured systems.
The Php vuln that was wildly exploited recently was not very funy, yet there was no word anywhere about possible update for Slackware.
Sure, Pat can keep playing the "as is", no warranty, at your own risk card, but in that case, Slackware will turn into a little niche distro that only a few linux old timers run.
If he wants to maintain his customer base and maybe even expand it, he has to communicate better.
A website which front page isn't updated for many months at times is unxcusable and certainly very bad for business.
And unless I'm misreading his latest log entries, he is asking people to pay up for the next release.
So the least he can do, considering he is able to go to IRC and waste time and energy chatting, is to post a few lines on Slackware.com telling people to go to Linuxpackages.net to get their Php update when there is a freaking worm outbrake!!!
Am I demanding too much?

1. All you say about depending is true in case you pay big $$$ for support (rhel,ms)
2. Letting run your servers by newbies IS lame.
3. Don't you understand there is just a man not an institution and when he goes to the hospital it is obvious that first thing one is thinking is to stay ALIVE ?

Arskissers? I find that offensive - just because I took offence to anonymous's pompous, self-righteous attitude, his obvious lack of compassion for another man's illness, and his stupid ignorant prattling about "not trusting" Pat, and being "shocked, utterly shocked".

If you don't like the fact that Slackware is maintained by one person, fork it. Or wait...perhaps unlike Pat, you aren't willing to give up your time and effort to donate a project to the community? So, does that make you a) selfish, or b) ignorant ? Personally, I think you're full of hot air...sure, it's fine to sit there trying to be a smarta*se, about how Pat should do this, or Pat should do that, but let's see you do one better, huh?

"Your argument about Slackware being free so Pat doesn't owe anyone anything is kind of hollow. There is such thing as professional pride in what you do and some basic courtesy to your customers (users)."

Customers? Excuse me, customers? Are you utterly braindead? Did you read a single word of what I said? Do you even *know* what OSS is all about?

You did *not* pay Pat for a license to use his software. User, yes, but no, you are *not* a "customer" of Pat. This is a volunteer effort from Pat - he's giving up *his* time free of charge, effort and expertise to bring *you* something for free.

"I'll refrain from returning your childish insults."

And perhaps I will refrain from passing comment on your obvious ignorance. Or maybe not.

"And I don't owe you any figures how much I spend on what."

I'm not asking you for a backdated 20 year tax return. I'm asking you a simple question - did you donate money to the Slackware project? Do you think the amount you donated (I assume you have donated at least a token amount, because if you haven't, then you're even more ignorant and selfish than I thought) justifies your behaviour?

Recent history:
Nov 16th 04: We didn't hear anything from Pat for a while and then he announced he was seriously ill, not able to handle any security updates or any updates at all. So he published some news in the changelog of -current, his usual way of communicating with users. Short after that (Nov 25th) he mentioned updates were available through the GUS group.

Then he told us (through the changelog again) he was back, issuing a large update for -current and that we soon could expect security updates for stable versions. So the GUS group and Slacksec stopped issuing updates. This was Dec 21st 04.

Then OSnews placed an IRC log with news from Slackware maintainer Pat. I posted a comment about security updates for stable and one of the replies I did get was from one of the www.slacksec.info maintainers. He told that the were talking with the GUS group about issuing updates again.

Since Dec 21st, we did see updates for -current. We did not see anything happening to the stable versions of Slackware yet. Not on the GUS site, not on Slackware.com and not on Slacksec.

So I expect updates from them (GUS/Slacksec) soon.

My point is that Pat was telling us on 21st Dec he will update stable versions soon, but we did not see/hear anything about those updates. If he cannot manage it due to his illness, that's okay. HIS health condition is more important then Slackware. But why not _communicate_ about it so others can take over the updates.

I'm not sure I will install Slackware 10.1. If things don't get better regarding security updates and communication I might switch to a maintained distribution for my server.

The slackware newsgroup is worse than not helpful, they take pride in raking newbies over the coals. They think that since Slackware came on 1 CD, that the goal of the distro was to not be overly helpful, "just like Pat". These are their words, not mine!

Once Slackware was bloated and came on several CD's, it was too late - it was already the distro for mean people. Don't take my word for it, read their newsgroup for yourself. They talk about everything except slackware. When someone asks a question, they all chant "RTFM!"

So when Pat was gravely ill, not many ex-slackers cared too much. The sad irony was, neither did many of his users.

I find Gentoo or Arch to be a better desktop, and FreeBSD to be a better server. Slackware isn't needed anymore.

Lots of people here didn't even took the time to check www.slackware.com before posting crap about security updates. This is what I read on it (and I don't think Pat made a special version of the website just for me) :

2004-11-27 : News from PatPat made a new entry in the ChangeLog giving us all some fresh news about his health conditions.

He also stated (Pat's gpg signed message) that the security packages (patches) from the GUS-BR group (GUS GPG KEY) are trusted.

EDITED on 2004-12-07
A mirror of the GUS-BR tree can be found on osuosl (ftp and http).

I've used Swaret and Slapt-get to update machines to "current," and both have resulted in non-booting systems occasionally. So, I wouldn't go that route if I were you. I have a machine right here that never gets past Lilo after slapt-get is run to upgrade to current.

There needs to be a better way to update....maybe something Pat can whip up.

@ puntdraad
Thank you.
You outlined the events that took place nicely.
I just said that there were no updates for over two months.
And it's true for some things.
To this day there is no update for Php other than the one from Linuxpackages.net.
It's nice Pat wants to push a new version out the door but when there are serious security vulns then those should be fixed firs.

@ Witek
No, if it's running your computer then you're depending on it whether you paid for it or not.
My servers are not run by newbies. What I said is that often newbies set up servers at home and don't know the potential risks.
I understand very well about the one man thing. And it's fine with me. But that's not a good enough excuse for not communicating with people.

@ cycojesus
Like I said before. Those updates were incomplete and some, like the Samba I could not get working at all.
And proper security updates are mirrored on more than one website/ftp site for obvious reasons.

@ ddk
Let's hope that things will improve otherwise it'll be harder and harder to take Slackware seriously.
There are good alternatives and the only one suffering from people leaving Slackware will be Pat.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Slackware his primary source of income?
If there are less of those of us who buy Slackware then that would mean less income for Pat, wouldn't it?

Excuse me? After several users have already posted links to the relveant websites (GUS, Slack-sec etc.), after cycojesus (interesting name...) posted a verbatim word-for-word copy of what is on the front-page slackware.com, since you seem too lazy to bother going there yourself?

I think *you* are the one who is either a) illiterate and unable to read, or b) completely ignorant, or c) a troll (I'm inclined towards the latter, now).

SlackSec is an organisation composed of a number of Slackware users (mainly from irc.freenode.net) who have decided to be pro-active about maintaining Slackware's security during Pat's unfortunate health problems, his regular holiday, and any other occasions on which he may be unable to keep Slackware up to date. We can be found in #slacksec on irc.freenode.net. Please note that these updates are unofficial.

Pat is (or rather, let's hope, was) sick - Slacksec decided to pick up the slack (sorry about the pun..hehehe). Yes, they are unofficial, but this is an example of the community stepping in to help - something you seem incapable of doing, aside from your protatcted and silly rants.

And also, you refuse to answer my question with regards to whether you are, or have ever supported the Slackware project?

Don't even think that Slackware is going to ever be unmaintained; there are too many people involved now. Even if Optimus-Prime was gone, the autobots could survive with the crystal and the strength of their leader within them. I 've been using Slackware for about 4-5 years now and its the only distribution, which will teach you Linux/Unix.Not Suse(yast2), not Debian(apt-get), not Red Hat(some update-all-in-one-tool based on rpms) and certainly not Gentoo (emerge)...NO!None of that ready packaged crap will teach you how to be able to work/play/hack/enjoY_yourself.And I won't accept any crap for swaret or slapt-get cause they are not in any case inside the basic distro of slack cds. Patrick has turned his once little "game for friends" into a world-wide project and that is something worthwhile my friends. Not me, not you, not anyone can turn his hobby into the next best thing in the linux community. We are all glad to have him functional again, even if he says he isn't, we all know he is stronger than that. Let's all support him, and finally cut the crap.