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Yes the Mets have to rebuild. But they don't have to totally ****ing suck and challenge the Marlins for last place. A NY team should be able to put an entertaining team out there even during the rebuilding process. And this team as presently constructed is not a 75 win team. It is worse than last year. We are looking at high 60's.

One last point. If you are going to have a mid-tier payroll for a sustained period you should charge mid-tier prices. The Wilpons think they can put their mistakes (or misfortunes for the most generous minded of you) on the backs of Mets fans. It won't work.

I don't see how we're 5+ losses worse than last season. Dickey is gone, yes, but Davis should certainly have a more productive season, the outfield will probably put up comparable production (I mean, how can they possibly be worse...), and we have improved at catcher. The bullpen is another place where we can hope for improvement, because again, it can't really be worse than last season. Francisco will hopefully be healthy, and perhaps we catch lightning in a bottle somewhere. Find me a successful 2012 team that did not get "lucky" with 1-2 of their relievers.

Obviously the rotation may be weaker, but full seasons from Harvey and Gee and potentially some contribution from Wheeler could help there. And Niese should also continue to grow.

I'm not saying we're good. But as of now I would peg us for a good 74 wins.

I don't see how we're 5+ losses worse than last season. Dickey is gone, yes, but Davis should certainly have a more productive season, the outfield will probably put up comparable production (I mean, how can they possibly be worse...), and we have improved at catcher. The bullpen is another place where we can hope for improvement, because again, it can't really be worse than last season. Francisco will hopefully be healthy, and perhaps we catch lightning in a bottle somewhere. Find me a successful 2012 team that did not get "lucky" with 1-2 of their relievers.

Obviously the rotation may be weaker, but full seasons from Harvey and Gee and potentially some contribution from Wheeler could help there. And Niese should also continue to grow.

I'm not saying we're good. But as of now I would peg us for a good 74 wins.

I don't think a single one of them is excessive. I wasn't saying "Harvey will win 15 games" or "Johan will pitch 200 innings" or "Davis will hit 40 HR". If anything, predicting a high-60's win total is excessively negative.

But who the hell cares? We're talking about the difference between 4th place and 5th place. I wish we had only won 68 games this season. Our first round pick would be protected. Who knows, maybe we would have given Bourn some insanely backloaded contract.

Why do we need to be world series contenders first to improve our club? Improving your club one step at a time is HOW you become world series contenders in the first place. Mets ownership/management has no excuse, as there were plenty of outfielders to choose from this off-season. They could have found one. They SHOULD have found one.

How is that not the case at all? How can you possibly argue that signing Cody Ross to a three-year deal and paying him $9 million in 2014 and 2015 wouldn't hurt our chances?

"Then we're wasting our time"? What does that even mean? So what is YOUR solution outside of the Wilpons selling the team? Are you just saying that it isn't possible to build a winning ballclub with a payroll around $95 million?

Damn, I've been away from PSD for too long. I've forgotten that some members just will not budge regardless of the argument presented. I guess this will be one of those "agree to disagree" scenarios.

Why do we need to be world series contenders first to improve our club? Improving your club one step at a time is HOW you become world series contenders in the first place. Mets ownership/management has no excuse, as there were plenty of outfielders to choose from this off-season. They could have found one. They SHOULD have found one.

Yes, this notion is complete garbage, and an excuse to do nothing, have Mets fans really swallowed this nonsense? have they? they have on here?

For some reason the Mets have to be a 90 win team before there's a point in doing anything.

Just imagine if every other team just stopped doing anything for 5 years...

the mets are done next season, if anyone thinks we're going to be competitive, they have another thing coming...

Not that I won't be pulling for the team, of course I will... not that I won't be following the team, of course I will...

But you're right.

We haven't just surrendered 2013 - we've also surrendered 2014. Because ONE off-season of free agent(s) won't be enough for us to compete. We needed to start *this* off-season in order to position ourselves to be competitive in 2014.