Paladin Talent Pool

I got what Blizz said about want to know what kind of gameplay we want and I got some ideas, so to make things clear I'd like to list and ask you to vote. (I come from a Ret PVP perspective so if I forgot something, please let me know)

1) What's the best for Sacred Shield?

a) Leave as it is on Live.

b) Have a Low ICD and Absorv (Absorv 150k every 30 secs)

c) Have a Medium ICD and Absorv (Absorv 300k every 1 min)

d) Have a Big ICD and Absorv (Absorv 600k every 2 mins)

EXTRA) Ask Blizz to consider making it REFLECT DAMAGE BACK - IT'S TIME FOR RETRIBUTION (Glyph)

Obs: Remember Sacrifical Pact absorv 400k+ every 1 min, and Touch of Karma absorv 400k+ every 1,5 mins and reflect it back. So those numbers might be the real deal.

2) About Burden of Guilt:

a) Leave as it is on Live as a Talent

b) Put it on Seal of Justice with a ICD

c) Put it on Seal of Justice but remove all seal damage

d) Put it on Seal of Justice but make it spend a Holy Power

e) Put it on Seal of Justice with a Glyph

Obs: Fact is we need a ranged snare - some people more than others

3) About Evil is a Point of View (We're almost sure the glyph won't be Instant Cast):

a) Glyph to make it area with a 30s CD

b) Glyph for Ret only to cast on the move (and maybe Instant Cast on Undead)

c) Glyph to make it Instant with a 45s CD

d) Glyph to put it on a diferent spell lock and make the target tremble im place instead of running.

e) Remove from talents - maybe make Blinding Light a 15 secs CD

Obs: Remember you play with and against Paladins, and that this is a talent - Fist/Rep is left out to take this.

On other note, I really think Execution Sentence and Light's Hammer bringing Mastery to the table is the right way to go.

About the Pool, I think I'd go:

1) C - and the Retribution Glyph
2) B or C
3) I think B is a must, the others are all fine.

"I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

1) I'll go with C on this one. As for the EXTRA component, I'd say make it passive for Retribution instead of a glyph. I don't think it should be a 1:1 reflect, perhaps 25% to 30% of the damage taken while the shield is up.

2) I'm going to propose an F: allow Judgement to apply the SoJustice slow passively. You cut your damage (using SoTruth) for utility (keeping someone slowed with SoJustice), which has always made sense in game design. Even if they can dispel the effect, you constantly apply it. Meaning that if they want to move normally, they'll have to deal with you somehow.

3) E, definitely. If this change sticks, we would essentially have two 1.5s cast, break-on-damage CC talents. The only difference is that one makes the person wander around a bit. As fun as it would be running around fearing Warlocks and Priests (I can fully admit I would be giggling non-stop), it makes the talent tier more boring and flat. I'm not entirely sure what to replace it with, though.

For ES/LH gaining mastery damage: I'm not sure I see the point. Even with the dispel 'protection' that ES is gaining, people are still going to dispel it, right? So it's just damage you aren't going to see. For LH, people can move out of it (so yet more damage you don't get to see).

PS: I've got next to no PvP experience, so I might have missed something too.

Malthanis, about 2) Snare thing, this is basicaly the C one, but without the damage reduction... I don't think Blizz will give a snare for free - of course by switching from SoT to SoJ we lose damage on live from Censure. But we have the 20% Holy damage to compensate for it.

What this means is (from live to PTR): SoJ apply the BoG effect, but no longer give the 20% Holy damage from the seal. So we get to your point also: SoT = Damage Seal and SoJ = Snare Seal.

Big difference here is that the Live SoJ we have a Melee Snare and 20% Holy Damage, and what we're thinking is a Ranged Snare with no extra damage to compensate.

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About LH I'm not considering using it if there is no roots/knockback/CC effect at all (I'm Arena Ret PVP) - so I can't really say.

But ES I think it should tick TWICE as fast as it does on live also on top of the changes. And with Mastery on it, it can be an option since the damage and GCD may compensate the loss of the AoE Healing/Damage effect from Prism.

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To help on the reading, plz paste the choice on the posts so there is no need to go above to read what X) means =P And explain why like Malthanis did, plz ;P

Tnx guys o/

"I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

1) C. I think it should also have some flavor for Ret/Prot. Holy gets the option of self or Beacon. Ret should get something like "reflects x% of damage back to attackers while the shield is active". Prot should get "increases healing taken by x% while the shield is active".

2) I vote for E here, since removing the seal damage of it would be awful, and an ICD kinda sucks. I'd like to see a glyph/passive that is "while SOJ is active, succesful Judgements will also slow the target by 50% for 3-5 seconds". This way, its shorter than BoG was, and you still have to use SOJ to get it to work, so there's that tradeoff too.

3) I don't like the idea of EiaPOV at all. I'd rather see something new and unique istead of repent 2.0. No vote here, because I'm boycotting the lazy talent design.

Also, would like to see the t90 talents affected by haste (both in ticks/speed AND GCD). FFS, 1.5sec GCD on t90 talents (the penultimate talents) is fking lame.

Originally Posted by Malthanis

We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)

"I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

1) C. Damage reflect would be nice on paper, but from playing WW it isn't much. I've had people kill through ToK and it not really reflected crap. Need to remember damage reflect double dips resil.

2) B. Every 15-20 seconds, or do it like Frozen Power for shammies. Only applies if the target is further than 30 or something.

3) A. That would be beautiful. A fear bomb, even with a cast time, would be nice. It really sucks having no self peel and no defensive stance to go into when getting pounded. Jump on my feral, and while bear isn't invulnerable, it is nice to lower incoming damage when it needs to be.

You can kill through ToK... just have to break the 400k absorv and be healed for the damage it gives you. 400k absorv is not small by any means.

Nice ideas man =)

"I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm