Did a simple search in ProgArchives symphonic prog section to see which country had the most symphonic prog bands. See results below in the photo attached.

I was as amazed as some of you might get. The results proved wrong the most rooted prog misconception according to which UK was the center of symphonic prog. As you can see here, there are almost two times more symphonic prog bands in US than in UK. Germany has just as many symphonic prog bands as UK. Could what we've thought all this time be just a matter of exposure? Share your thoughts, please!

P.S. This doesn't even take into the account all the Italian prog bands, who were mostly of symphonic variety.

Did a simple search in ProgArchives symphonic prog section to see which country had the most symphonic prog bands. See results below in the photo attached.

...

Considering the size of each country and the number of its population, those numbers are way off and simply a top ten number that is not indicative of a whole lot of much ... except bad statistics to feed the sadistic mind of the populist ideals!

If you have 150 out of 200 million people instead of 150 out of 40 million (whatevuuuuhhh!!!) ... the number becomes almost trivial and in America, and massive in Germany or England!

To me, this is the hard part of the "top ten" mentality ... you see the numbers without a perspective of what they mean ... and this is exactly what I mean that when London sells 100k copies of something it becomes a hit that we are supposed to hear and buy, and the same in NY, or Tokyo ... but the rest of the world has not heard it, or cares about it ... and it "forces you" to listen and "appreciate" the new Number One ... which, of course, is only happening in one place, not others! Nashville rarely cares, for example!

Without trying to sound smug, or bad, this is exactly why we need to get rid of the top ten mentality in progressive music ... it teaches you to look at the wrong thing ... popularity ... instead of the value of the music itself. That, in no way, is to state that the public does not have good taste ... if that were the case, Janis, Jimi, Jim and many others would never have been heard ... but it spoke a lot for the abilities and their music ... and you have to see that scale and how it balances out.

You can see how we can get tired of the NY media, or London media, or Tokyo media (we ignore that one really good!), telling us what is best and what is superior! Specially when there is so much more music everywhere in the world that those folks, and you and I, have never heard ... or eever will bother to hear!

If I may suggest, also be a "progressive" listener and "progressive" thinker ... a lot of the music and its variety and other work in other countries, will make a lot more sense to your palate! The beauty is endless. It's almost like saying that Swedish women are ugly, or Russian women, or Thai women, or Australian women ... and you know that is really full of it!

Some statistics are worth their salt ... but they need to have PERSPECTIVE. In a relational sense, your statistic would not go very far in college, btw! A professor at UCSB in Sociology 101 used to get everyone to create these statistical everythings on the first week, and then proceed to shoot them all down ... out loud in front of the whole class ... so you got the idea ... that numbers are an ADVERTISING TOOL ... not necessarily a scientific tool!

Remember that next time you go see the latest greatest movie that made 100 Million!

Edited by moshkito - December 03 2012 at 07:47

... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the inner art is all about! www.pedrosena.com

How does Sweden fare when it comes down to prog bands per capita? I know of towns in Finland and Sweden with less than 20,000 people, with five or more prog bands mentioned on prog archives. Wikipedia says:

Sweden also has a prominent choral music tradition, deriving in part from the cultural importance of Swedish folk songs. In fact, out of a population of 9.5 million, it is estimated that five to six hundred thousand people sing in choirs.[171]

In 2007, with over 800 million dollars in revenue, Sweden was the third largest music exporter in the world and surpassed only by the US and the UK.[172

Love those bands, but I think the point to be made is that England IS the home of symphonic prog rock in terms of what that particular subgenre spawned and influenced globally.

Well, no need of specific analogs - ... but when US has a wonderband (IMO, of course) like Maelstrom almost unknown, this points to some kind of prejudice born out of popular misconception against US symph. And who knows

how many more bands we have to hear and fully appreciate!

PFM example is a bit irrelevant IMO, because if we touch Italy, we have to stand against the most massive symphonic avalanche there has ever been

Yes, nobody argues that UK is a home for symphonic prog - that's what indeed it is; but there could be just as many symphonic ideas over the Atlantic - at least so many just not to deem American symphonic prog a priori second-rate

Snow Dog wrote:

It makes sense that The US have more. Much huger population equals more varieties of everything under the sun.

Well yes, population size matters - but when we talk about country's prog input we usually mean it in absolute terms, not relative to country's size; With former approach Belgium could be viewed as one of the European prog leaders, relative to their area / population - which is absolutely not the case.

moshkito wrote:

If you have 150 out of 200 million people instead of 150 out of 40 million (whatevuuuuhhh!!!) ... the number becomes almost trivial and in America, and massive in Germany or England!

Yes but again, we measure input as an absolute term, not per capita

moshkito wrote:

It's almost like saying that Swedish women are ugly, or Russian women, or Thai women, or Australian women ... and you know that is really full of it!

Sadly that's a kind of approach I've often encountered towards American symphonic prog

moshkito wrote:

Some statistics are worth their salt ... but they need to have PERSPECTIVE. In a relational sense, your statistic would not go very far in college, btw! A professor at UCSB in Sociology 101 used to get everyone to create these statistical everythings on the first week, and then proceed to shoot them all down ... out loud in front of the whole class ... so you got the idea ... that numbers are an ADVERTISING TOOL ... not necessarily a scientific tool!

Sure, it was a simple search that quite amazed and a bit confused me. The PERSPECTIVE and moral of it (for me, at least) is that much of US symph is thrown into the wastebin and regarded as a second-tier. And yeah, most of it is very unpopular too, judging by review numbers - so, saying again, it points to some popular misconception angainst it, not the opinion formed by thorough investigation

This just goes to show you the truth in the saying Mark Twain popularized:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Gerinski wrote:

With all due respect, your "statistics" (if you can call a simple count that) is alright as long as you agree that it's pretty meaningless.

Can you tell me WHY? Besides, the point I made was that US symph at least requires much closer attention. This is its primal meaning; Any additional meaning will be available as / if it gets more exposure

With all due respect, your "statistics" (if you can call a simple count that) is alright as long as you agree that it's pretty meaningless.

Can you tell me WHY? Besides, the point I made was that US symph at least requires much closer attention. This is its primal meaning; Any additional meaning will be available as / if it gets more exposure

Well that didn't seem to be your point in the OP. Your statistics merely revealed the fact that there are more US bands listed in PA than UK bands, nothing more and nothing less (that's what I mean by "pretty meaningless", just a numerical count without any references has an extremely limited information value), but the point you made of this fact was

Thandrus wrote:

The results proved wrong the most rooted prog misconception according to which UK was the center of symphonic prog.

which is not a valid inference from that fact.

I sense that you now understand that you just revealed that there are more US bands in PA than UK bands so in numerical terms people might want to pay attention to those US bands, and that's fine for me. No offence intended.

I sense that you now understand that you just revealed that there are more US bands in PA than UK bands so in numerical terms people might want to pay attention to those US bands, and that's fine for me. No offence intended.

Well yeah, I might have been a bit radical / hasty with my conclusions - but anyways, you could tell that amount of ideas generated there was no less. Concerning quality, I think most of prog fans don't know it enough (myself included) to judge it. So it's likely that from this big amount of material reasonable percentage would be gems (just like everywhere, even England). So, attention is warranted

BTW, does the forum policy allow to post YouTube links for full albums? So we could share some of US gems available there. I've seen songs shared, but not albums, that's why I'm asking.

Think this just comes down to simple demographics like land mass, population density, average age etc.
These all can relate to a stronger likely hood that a country will have more than the other.

I bet the US has the most, But their exposure is not as well known as the UK.
Germany. I'm not surprised. Just not enough exposure. I think I only listen to A Poverty's no crime and Vaden Plas. Can't name too many.

Anyway. My feeling is that the U.S has the most, but the UK produce the best. Just my opinion.

German Symphonic Prog band Triumvirat hit the Top 40 in the USA with Spartacus in '75. At the time, more an exception to the rule, as far as German Sym. Prog making a dent in North America. Triumvirat also hit Number 1 in Portugal and in the top 4 in Brazil only a year later in terms of album sales. (they were not a singles oriented band)

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