never even came close to a PhD...I didn't have the family lineage to go that far. seriously, I dropped out because I was absolutely broke and we were expecting a baby.No money from mommy and daddy and no hiring a nanny...you know, no family lineage that traced back to the bank. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. (and I can tell you all of the different color poops my kids went thru. lol) Same with the dojo I was exposed to growing up. I wouldn't wish that it had been any different in exchange for a 'more direct lineage'. also, I wouldn't have wanted to grow up learning how to solve conflict with only my fists. I talked, joked and body gestured my way out of more situations than I can remember...which one of those saved my life? Hard to say, if any, but I know it didn't have anything to do with lineage.

Oldman, I don't actually have a college degree, let alone one from Cal Berkely. I was using the analogy given by Ed, based on what styles he's studied compared to what I've studied.

On a personal note, as much as I want to study an art with far more (and much clearer) lineage, I do appreciate what I have gained from AKK. The knowledge I have gained there will serve me in any art I study, after boot camp of course.

I think the posts I have read in this thread have not seen the big picture. The 46 dead guys comment convinced me of this. Fact is, how do you know your art will work if it has never been used except in sport? The arts that have defeated people on the battle field have lasted because they work against others who are trying to take thier lives. Most have never faced this. I have studied for a short time and been in a lot of Dojo's that claim to teach the "best" but alsa they only teach crap. IMHO!

Hi Paul, Having battlefield experience is more important than lineage? I agree. Although, are you saying the soldiers having to often resort to H2H combat in the pacific islands during WWII were more effective fighters since they had much more proven (meaning if they stayed alive) battlefield experience than the likes of Okinawan masters who perhaps wisely chose not to fight at all in the war at the time?

just wondering what definition of battlefield is being used here.Thank-you,-Ed

When you build a house, which is more important...> the framer?> the plumber?> the electrician?> the roofer?

The point is that they're all important. This also translates to MA: w/o a good teacher from credible lineage, teaching serious students who have fighting spirit, supported by a community (aka group that promotes the art), the art suffers. Take away any one of these "legs" & you have degredation regardless of if you can trace your instructors back to Bushi Matsumura or not.

Well I never said that I wasn't Joe Normal when it came to many things, but I think my MAs training is on par with other decent martial artists. If I do post on these silly forums I must have some kinda' normalcy to me. I'm not all that now. I'm nowhere near a Kise, Oyama, Nakamura, Miyagi or Lindsey. I'm more comparable to a McDojoist and armchair Bruce to tell you the truth. Somewhere between bRuce Lee and Bruce Willis, or something to that effect. I just like to stir the pot and give people something to chew on if you knowwhatImean.

Actually my sensei thinks I have some kind of a problem when it comes to posting on these things. He would rather I never talked to any of you cats and just keep my trap shut ["SECRETS- SHHH!!!";)]. I mean what the heck can I prove online anyway? This is actually the first time I've posted on any of these sites in months.

I actually received a verbal reprimand from my teacher. I guess some pansy-arses feel like my words ring too true or whatever so they went tattle-tail on me and kept telling my instructor (via email) what a horrible job he was doing teaching me "the way" and they interpreted my words as his somehow. GENIUSES fo' sheez'!

So I was threatened with permanent ousture from my instructor's organization if I couldn't shut it. I just stopped training to fix it all. I don't have time right now to train anyway. My bro' needs surgery so we decided to take a hiatus, maybe forever. So whatever. Little cry baby web-warrior b-tches, wann-be tough guys! What punks!!! Regardless I forgot more karate in my 6 years of training under Lindsey than many will learn in a lifetime of study. I'm cool with where I'm at.

Oh and the Harvard analogy was weak, but pertinent. Don't get me wrong. The actual classroom standards for a school like Harvard are really very easy once you get in (depending on major). The requirements and rigors involved at many state schools and small colleges are often tougher. Still even at a state school you know what their accreditation is. It isn't some mentally challenged guy telling you "you're gonna get some good learnin' now".

Btw all karate that has Shuri Te kata in it is from Matsumura's lineage (Matsumura Ha). That includes Kyokushinkai and its offshoots even if THEY don't want to claim it.

So here's a hint, Ed, at what kind of person I am; Heiho Jutsu. It's all about creating an image I want folks to see, but it ain't necessarily really me. So let's not assume.

HI OLDMAN YOU NOT SO OLD LOOKING, YET VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE TRUE-TO-LIFE, REAL KOREAN KARATE-KA!!! You're one of the few guys on any of these forums who is not average in any way. Keep teaching them the right way. Your bunkai has always been first rate! God bless you!!!

I wasn't talking about Military H2H training or even modern military necessarily ...I was talking about Military H2H blood-gurgling war {glub-glub} experience.maybe it was missed, but I tried to make a distinction between which appropriate battlefields to train for nowadays for my suburban-a$$... war or self-defense. I forgot that you are living in 18th century Okinawa, so your threats may be different than from someone, lets say, shopping at a mall.

to tie this back on topic, I think looking at lineage can educate us as to what type of 'battlefield' each generation trained (and perhaps modified) the Art which was handed down.