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I think most of us, the average income worker WW's are always looking for the next passionate craftsman to come up with an interesting new product, at a decent price point.

Even if the smallest company gets behind for some reason, it's still a huge bummer if your hard earned money is lost. There is just no reason to justify anything else but a refund, or total parts replacement if the client is dissatisfied, especially with quality issue.

If the said company don't wan't to refund a hubset because they're behind, well, IMHO again, even if it's not intentional, it's still a rip off...

My hubs were smooth when I got them. I should mention I'm still riding the rear wheel as it was built and it's worked quite well. I think it's the 155 or 175 hub (I can't remember anymore) w/ 28 holes. My nightmare was w/ the front hubs. 2 broken axles, then spokes pinging (I didn't have that hub long enough for the axle to break) and then after 2 or 3 rides I had the crunchiest bearings and metal on metal sounds. The 1st 2 times Mark was responsive and got things done quickly. The 3rd time it took a really long time and I had to get nasty. The last time I went back to FWB and explained what had happened - they had me send the front wheel back and rebuilt it w/ a no-name hub w/ similar specs to the elf and I haven't had a problem since. But, that ended my interaction w/ c-4.

I'm in the middle of a terrible experience with C4 as well. I ordered a set of USL 3.0 wheels and this is the series of events:

April 15 - Order placedMay 1 - Wheels shippedMay 15 - Wheels receivedMay 15 - Cassette and tires installed. Rode up the street (maybe 200 feet) and noticed something was not right, rear wheel was wobbling. Took the bike back inside, inspected real wheel, found that the axle was bent.May 16 - Confirmed at bike shop that the axle was bent - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGOZN1MnchsMay 18 - New rear axle assembly shippedMay 25 - New rear axle assembly receivedMay 31 - New axle assembly installedJune 2 - Went for a 128 km ride (rain for ~30 km). When cleaning bike after, noticed wheel was not spinning smoothly and the same wobble was happening.June 4 - Took wheel to shop, confirmed that the axle was bent, and the bearings were rough / seizing.June 5 - Rear wheel shipped back to C4June 8 - Rear wheel received by C4July 10 - Rear wheel shipped to meJuly 17 - Rear wheel receivedJuly 20 - Cassette installed on rear wheelJuly 25, 26, 30 - Rode to work: 45km round tripJuly 30 - Took the rear wheel off the bike and found the axle to be spinning very rough, I assume the bearings are seizing.

Talked with Mark on the phone about two weeks ago and he wanted me to test a new hub, with a 17mm axle that is 30% stiffer than what I have. I politely declined and asked for a refund, which he reluctantly agreed to. I've since sent three emails, and one voicemail confirming the address to return the wheels to with no response.

I've given up on the rear hub, after 1. Replacing hub body because it wouldn't freewheel properly (fixed under warranty)2. Replacing bearings (after the first really wet ride) 3. Having a wobble develop in the hub which could not be fixed, it was bad enough to get the rim rubbing on the brake pads with them wide open (they are laced to A23's).

The front hub also had it's bearings replaced because one of them was very rough, it was getting a pinging noise every couple of revolutions - I've still got one of them which is very rough just spinning it in your hand. The axle on the front was also replaced (warranty) although I had to pay the local bikeshop to fix it.

Anyway as far as I'm concerned - I wouldn't recommend them, for what it's worth they were FH65 and RH215 hubs.

Once the issues of annoyance, time invested, cost and (most importantly) component safety are factored in, it seems like the entire C-4 enterprise is a bust. Plus, this seems to be the general experience on this forum and others. That's really too bad, because when I initially purchased a set of C-4 hubs (through FWB) I was highly impressed with the customer service of the company which was always good even though I had numerous problems with several iterations of the hubs. Finally, after yet another product failure (I think there were two per hub; front and back, including prematurely worn bearings, extreme lateral wheel play and broken axles), I gave up and bought Alchemy...a decision I've never regretted.