RnFR wrote:apparently the first stage has to have temperature compensation. he still won't tell me at what temperature this becomes necessary, though.

A quick test, with a 2N2222 (not a bad choice for the first transistor in a Tonebender), showed that with sensible choices for the resistors, the collector voltage started to move at about 110 C.

Unless you're gigging on Venus, or boiling your gear in salt water as you play, there's little chance of attaining this kind of temperature in normal use.

Back in the days when I used to design amplifiers for accelerometers that had to work in paper mills at well over 100 C, I used to design silicon circuits with temperature compensation. I also design temperature compensation into my RF oscillator circuits. However, for audio frequencies, and at the normal human range of temperatures, any kind of compensation in a Tonebender is just plain stupid.

See, this is the most idiotic thing about Lance's actions (and Bill's, let's not forget): I know the Retro fuzz and Klon schematics are posted all over the net - When the boutique folder went, a quick google seacrh and a bit of trawling non-english websites got me the Retrofuzz schematic in minutes. They can't possibly hope to police the whole of the internet and issue DMCA take-downs from now on, can they? It's just a bit of bloody-mindedness on Lance's behalf because a couple of people on this site didn't swoon at his awesome circuit.

mmolteratx wrote:absolutely zero commercial use allowed. If I find anyone selling these, I'll fly to your house and kick you in the nads. And you may or may not find yourself in trouble.

You see, I would love to see Lance send DMCA notices to Blogger (Google?)In fact, I don't care for fuzzes in general and this implementation in particular, but now I somehow feel the urge to make a cause about this.

he still hasnt answered why he used an array for his TONEBENDER DERIVATIVE, aside from vbe matching and consistent hfe ranges (sorry, i dont buy that temperature stabilization shit for a silicon device). but most importantly - and idk, maybe the obvious reason - was _____________. you fill in the blank. nothing more, nothing less.

Well, the use of the transistor array is fine; the sales blurb & hype is fine; the "our fuzz is the best" is fine; the germanium and temperature references are shady (but technically "true", is a silicon tonebender, all right) but calling the IC "Proprietary Chip Set", or this: "Rxxxx Cxxxxx has developed a proprietary chipset that delivers pure MK2 fuzz tones without the use of germanium" is when they hit the curb, completed with start to throw shit everywhere over the fact that their fuzz is analized here. Imagine this, instead: "This is our modern incarnation of the classic mk2, this is how it sounds, this is the price" Would that have sold less? I don't think so. Then it will be opened here, Lance passes by and says, "yeah pretty clever to use the 3046 right? also you can try this and that, and note the input stage biasing we were trying to mimic the input characteristics of a Ge transistor but with Si stability" would that have sold less? Hordes of RCTF clones flooding the market and driving them out of business? Again, don't think so.Now they have been exposed as liars and worst - are engaged in this useless, virtual fight wich they can't win against a very motivated community.But hey! This is a free world, anyone is entitled to be an asshole.

RnFR wrote:apparently the first stage has to have temperature compensation. he still won't tell me at what temperature this becomes necessary, though.

A quick test, with a 2N2222 (not a bad choice for the first transistor in a Tonebender), showed that with sensible choices for the resistors, the collector voltage started to move at about 110 C.

Unless you're gigging on Venus, or boiling your gear in salt water as you play, there's little chance of attaining this kind of temperature in normal use.

Back in the days when I used to design amplifiers for accelerometers that had to work in paper mills at well over 100 C, I used to design silicon circuits with temperature compensation. I also design temperature compensation into my RF oscillator circuits. However, for audio frequencies, and at the normal human range of temperatures, any kind of compensation in a Tonebender is just plain stupid.

juanro wrote:Well, the use of the transistor array is fine; the sales blurb & hype is fine; the "our fuzz is the best" is fine; the germanium and temperature references are shady (but technically "true", is a silicon tonebender, all right) but calling the IC "Proprietary Chip Set", or this: "Rxxxx Cxxxxx has developed a proprietary chipset that delivers pure MK2 fuzz tones without the use of germanium" is when they hit the curb, completed with start to throw shit everywhere over the fact that their fuzz is analized here. Imagine this, instead: "This is our modern incarnation of the classic mk2, this is how it sounds, this is the price" Would that have sold less? I don't think so. Then it will be opened here, Lance passes by and says, "yeah pretty clever to use the 3046 right? also you can try this and that, and note the input stage biasing we were trying to mimic the input characteristics of a Ge transistor but with Si stability" would that have sold less? Hordes of RCTF clones flooding the market and driving them out of business? Again, don't think so.Now they have been exposed as liars and worst - are engaged in this useless, virtual fight wich they can't win against a very motivated community.But hey! This is a free world, anyone is entitled to be an asshole.

Juanro

Thank You feature doesn't seem to be working.. all part of the restructuring I guess..So - Thanks for a well thought out and intelligent post juanro !!.

juanro wrote:Well, the use of the transistor array is fine; the sales blurb & hype is fine; the "our fuzz is the best" is fine; the germanium and temperature references are shady (but technically "true", is a silicon tonebender, all right) but calling the IC "Proprietary Chip Set", or this: "Rxxxx Cxxxxx has developed a proprietary chipset that delivers pure MK2 fuzz tones without the use of germanium" is when they hit the curb, completed with start to throw shit everywhere over the fact that their fuzz is analized here. Imagine this, instead: "This is our modern incarnation of the classic mk2, this is how it sounds, this is the price" Would that have sold less? I don't think so. Then it will be opened here, Lance passes by and says, "yeah pretty clever to use the 3046 right? also you can try this and that, and note the input stage biasing we were trying to mimic the input characteristics of a Ge transistor but with Si stability" would that have sold less? Hordes of RCTF clones flooding the market and driving them out of business? Again, don't think so.Now they have been exposed as liars and worst - are engaged in this useless, virtual fight wich they can't win against a very motivated community.But hey! This is a free world, anyone is entitled to be an asshole.

Greg_G wrote:Thank You feature doesn't seem to be working.. all part of the restructuring I guess..So - Thanks for a well thought out and intelligent post !!.

Still works for me.

Thanks Juanrmo.

Politics is the art of so plucking the goose as to obtain the most feathers with the least squawking. - R.G. 2011Jeez, she's an ugly bastard, she makes my socks hurt. I hope it's no ones missus here. - Ice-9 2012

RnFR wrote:apparently the first stage has to have temperature compensation. he still won't tell me at what temperature this becomes necessary, though.

A quick test, with a 2N2222 (not a bad choice for the first transistor in a Tonebender), showed that with sensible choices for the resistors, the collector voltage started to move at about 110 C.

Unless you're gigging on Venus, or boiling your gear in salt water as you play, there's little chance of attaining this kind of temperature in normal use.

Back in the days when I used to design amplifiers for accelerometers that had to work in paper mills at well over 100 C, I used to design silicon circuits with temperature compensation. I also design temperature compensation into my RF oscillator circuits. However, for audio frequencies, and at the normal human range of temperatures, any kind of compensation in a Tonebender is just plain stupid.

Last month I had the interesting assignment of fixing a (fanless) 800W linear voltage regulator that kept burning its output devices. The MOSFETs would get to about 160C then the nonconductive screws holding them to the heatsink would boil, then the device would lift off the heatsink and fail almost instantly. My solution was to clamp them down with a big block of aluminum. Low tech, but it worked!

rocklander wrote:hairsplitting and semantics aren't exactly the same thing though.. we may need two contests for that.

earthtonesaudio wrote:Last month I had the interesting assignment of fixing a (fanless) 800W linear voltage regulator that kept burning its output devices. The MOSFETs would get to about 160C then the nonconductive screws holding them to the heatsink would boil, then the device would lift off the heatsink and fail almost instantly. My solution was to clamp them down with a big block of aluminum. Low tech, but it worked!

Greg_G wrote:Thank You feature doesn't seem to be working.. all part of the restructuring I guess..So - Thanks for a well thought out and intelligent post !!.

Still works for me.

Thanks Juanrmo.

Are you sure.. juanro has no thanks from you..

Oh I see what you mean Greg, I sat scratching my head for a while wondering what you meant.

I haven't got used to the 'Thanks' button yet, you will have to excuse me it is and age thing.

I did notice that I spelled juanro incorrectly, sorry if it "Juanrmo" means something derogatory in Spanish.

Politics is the art of so plucking the goose as to obtain the most feathers with the least squawking. - R.G. 2011Jeez, she's an ugly bastard, she makes my socks hurt. I hope it's no ones missus here. - Ice-9 2012

Update.When I try thanking juanro with the thanks button I get the message "Invalid thank"

Politics is the art of so plucking the goose as to obtain the most feathers with the least squawking. - R.G. 2011Jeez, she's an ugly bastard, she makes my socks hurt. I hope it's no ones missus here. - Ice-9 2012