When we talk about things that cause terrible social ills, health problems, directly attributable deaths, etc.- we dont include alcohol because we like that one. We only demonize unhealthy stuff that we personally have no taste for.

Smoking and alcohol are decisions where the consumer is highly aware of what they are consuming. That is the consumers fault for taking on the risk.

The level of transparency in what is in the food supply, on the other hand, is atrocious.

You keep harping that people are being tricked, and they don't know that what they eat is unhealthy. But that's BS. The nutritional info is always available for everything they serve, for those that want to find out. What else do you want? A popup disclaimer every time somebody orders a Big Mac and large fries and coke that says "Hey fatty, you sure you know how many calories that is?" Come on.....

It's also perfectly possible to eat reasonably at a fast food place. Nobody says you have to eat 2000 calories each time you go.

The problem of diabetes and health issues would remain if you closed every single McD's in the country. That's the point you're missing. It's not the access to a particular food that's the problem. It's the fact that people don't care. You can't make people eat healthy food by attempting to remove all the unhealthy food. That doesn't work, and that will never work. Fatties don't eat at McD's all the time because they don't have access to healthy food alternatives. They absolutely do, even within McD's itself.

You keep harping that people are being tricked, and they don't know that what they eat is unhealthy. But that's BS. The nutritional info is always available for everything they serve, for those that want to find out. What else do you want? A popup disclaimer every time somebody orders a Big Mac and large fries and coke that says "Hey fatty, you sure you know how many calories that is?" Come on.....

Yes. Exactly.

In California now, you have to have the nutritional content posted and the calories and fat listed next to the menu item.

The problem of diabetes and health issues would remain if you closed every single McD's in the country. That's the point you're missing. It's not the access to a particular food that's the problem. It's the fact that people don't care. You can't make people eat healthy food by attempting to remove all the unhealthy food. That doesn't work, and that will never work. Fatties don't eat at McD's all the time because they don't have access to healthy food alternatives. They absolutely do, even within McD's itself.

You keep harping that people are being tricked, and they don't know that what they eat is unhealthy. But that's BS. The nutritional info is always available for everything they serve, for those that want to find out. What else do you want? A popup disclaimer every time somebody orders a Big Mac and large fries and coke that says "Hey fatty, you sure you know how many calories that is?" Come on.....

I didn't say get rid of McDonald's. I am talking about increasing transparency. People know fat content and calories. Do they know how local the meat is, what parts they're using, etc...? Do you really believe that all eaters are educated enough to know that many salads are also unhealthy?

You make a really huge assumption that all consumers are health educated. And that just knowing fat or sugar content is enough. More importantly, that there aren't consumers who try to eat healthy, but honest to god think a trip to panera for a sandwich and a diet coke is healthier.

Why don't you point me to the menu item that is reasonably healthy at McDonad's?

No and I rarely eat there. I just know that if you eat decently most of the time occasional forays into fast food or junk food isn't going to hurt you assuming you don't gorge yourself. That's all I was saying.

Watch the first half of the documentary "Fat Head" sometime. It was an answer to "Supersize Me", where the film maker ate every meal at McD's except didn't stuff himself like Morgan Spurlock did. He lost weight and had his health markers (BP, cholesterol, etc) improve.

Then there was the nutrition professor that put himself on the Twinkie Diet and ate mostly junk food for 10 weeks (but kept the calories low - 1800/day) and lost weight and had his health markers improve.

I don't advocate (and have never said) to eat at McD's or eat junk food all of the time. Eating a mostly whole food diet is what I think is healthful (and what I strive for). However, if I'm on the road and choose to eat at fast food place due to time/cost, I don't freak the **** out about like some apparently do.

By the way, as someone who has Celiac Disease and has to know what's in his food, I am all for full disclosure labeling, both in the store and in restaurants. I also like calorie info at restaurants because it makes it easier to figure out how to make food more reasonable (for example, leaving the mayo off of a Whopper cuts more calories than you would think).

I just wish people would educate themselves more on what really matters and not just freak out because some Internet or TV guru tells them they should.

By the way, as someone who has Celiac Disease and has to know what's in his food, I am all for full disclosure labeling, both in the store and in restaurants. I also like calorie info at restaurants because it makes it easier to figure out how to make food more reasonable (for example, leaving the mayo off of a Whopper cuts more calories than you would think).

I just wish people would educate themselves more on what really matters and not just freak out because some Internet or TV guru tells them they should.

The problem is the food industry is so non transparent that when people hear this, of course they'll freak out. Many don't realize it only gets worse. People can't educate enough as long as the food industry continues to stretch the truth, hide their processes, and if poor labeling makes it impossible to fully know what we are eating.

You're absolutely right. Moderation is fine. But many people try and think they are moderating, but don't because they don't realize they're eating like suit.

The problem is the food industry is so non transparent that when people hear this, of course they'll freak out. Many don't realize it only gets worse. People can't educate enough as long as the food industry continues to stretch the truth, hide their processes, and if poor labeling makes it impossible to fully know what we are eating.

You're absolutely right. Moderation is fine. But many people try and think they are moderating, but don't because they don't realize they're eating like suit.

I'm mostly railing against the gurus out there that get people all riled up (usually to benefit themselves). A good example is the "Aspartame makes formaldehyde, so therefore a deadly poison" meme.

Formaldehyde is a naturally occurring substance that is in a lot of foods naturally including milk and vegetable juice that our bodies handle just fine. In fact, formaldehyde plays an essential role in our metabolism. It is converted to formate (folic acid) and used to synthesize DNA in the cells. However, since it's toxic when inhaled (or ingested in large doses), the scare-mongers can get everyone would up by shouting "formaldehyde is a poison" or by associating it with embalming fluid for the "ick factor".

I've walked into those places, read the board, and then walked out and gone somewhere else to get something healthy.

Therefore, based on my personal experience and not your hypothetical projections, I can say with 100% certainty...

It ****ing works.

Except that exact thing has been done already, and the results showed that requiring food joints to post caloric info had absolutely no effect on obesity rates. Multiple studies have been done, showing what you're claiming is completely ineffective.

Quote:

The hope is that posting calorie counts at chain restaurants—defined broadly to include Taco Bell, Applebee's, and Starbucks—will lead people to order healthier food for themselves and their children.

There's a kind of logic to this. Restaurant calories are big contributors to the obesity epidemic. Americans blow nearly half their food budget at restaurants and spend less than half the time cooking at home than they did 50 years ago. If people only knew how many calories were in that Applebee's cheeseburger (930, plus 400 more for the fries), surely they'd order something lighter. This common-sense assumption drives the public health community's full-throated support for posting calorie counts, and explains why, to name one example, the Center for Science in the Public Interest calls the new measure a "huge victory." Even the restaurant industry heaps praise: It "gives consumers one more way to live a healthy lifestyle."

The trouble? Posting calorie counts won't help. We know because New York City has done it. Since 2008, chain restaurants in the city have had to post calorie information. In two studies, researchers at New York University compared the food choices of low-income children and adults from Newark, N.J. (where calories aren't posted) to the food choices of low-income New Yorkers. Although posting calorie counts raised consumer awareness somewhat, the researchers found that the measure had virtually no effect on what the New Yorkers actually purchased. Most distressingly, kids in New York were still eating as many calories as before. A third study looking at New York City and a fourth out of Seattle likewise found that little good came of posting calorie counts.

The ineffectiveness of similar regulations tells the same story. Since the mid-1990s, we've made food manufacturers print nutrition information, including calorie counts, on packaged foods. Time and again, however, studies show that few people notice nutritional information and even fewer use it effectively. As the FDA lamented in a 2004 report, "It may be that consumers do not take advantage of the available information on the food label to control their weight, perhaps because they do not appreciate how the information could be used for weight management purposes or perhaps because they find it too hard to apply the available information to such purposes."

Except that exact thing has been done already, and the results showed that requiring food joints to post caloric info had absolutely no effect on obesity rates. Multiple studies have been done, showing what you're claiming is completely ineffective.

Except that it had an effect on MY obesity rate, so all of your info is completely pointless, and completely wrong.