Yeah this was brought up alot. And what will save this game is a few more races maybe 2 hopefully and a coop mission mode like SC 2 would do very well. SC 2 is making silly money on COop commanders and has excellent player retention because of coop and user made content.

New races will not save the game and will not meaningfully move the player base for anything more than a few weeks. With no worthwhile single-player, sandbox players will not stick around and that leaves everything to the multiplayer - which hardly anyone is interested in and which fell on its face at release. This, of course, ignores the balance headaches of new races....

@Amoc said:
New races will not save the game and will not meaningfully move the player base for anything more than a few weeks. With no worthwhile single-player, sandbox players will not stick around and that leaves everything to the multiplayer - which hardly anyone is interested in and which fell on its face at release. This, of course, ignores the balance headaches of new races....

I'm pretty confident that with each new race game will obtain significant part of new players, while staying factor fully depends on the path Relic takes to balance/revamp current mechanics to have bigger appeal, and that's entirely possible by all means. Now, I'm not trying to say that single-player content is a waste, but with such big multiplayer focus, having lots of SP content will kill MP completely, because each player stuck with it is irrelevant for online community which hurts MP playerbase real bad. Nothing wrong in releasing quality SP or Coop content, but IMO Relic needs to focus on MP first and foremost for this game to live on.

@Stoner said:
I'm pretty confident that with each new race game will obtain significant part of new players, while staying factor fully depends on the path Relic takes to balance/revamp current mechanics to have bigger appeal, and that's entirely possible by all means.

Saying you're "pretty confident" doesn't actually mean anything. I'm "pretty confident" that you're absolutely wrong about this, because we already have 3 factions (one of them by far the most popular in 40K). Based on the current player base, even if you doubled the number of factions you'd STILL have a tiny player base.

For you to be "pretty confident", you almost have to assume each new faction would have some bizarre multiplicative effect on the player base. I guess if Chaos was introduced, you'd have all of the CSM players buy the game and start playing furiously, which would necessitate a righteous response from Space Marines. Naturally all of the Orks players would be drawn to the conflict (for the sake of fightin') and so to would the Eldar with their scheming (assholes). All of the sudden we've gone from 700 max players nightly to 2500, right!?

I played eldars for like 60 hours. Now I play less often.
If tau comes to appears in the game I might play as much time with them.
If necron appears i would be happy to come back to the game to face them.
If people get the army they want they will play more. Simple fact
Problem will again be balance issue (no doubt there will have) and complain about it (rightful or not).

@Stoner said:
I'm pretty confident that with each new race game will obtain significant part of new players, while staying factor fully depends on the path Relic takes to balance/revamp current mechanics to have bigger appeal, and that's entirely possible by all means.

Saying you're "pretty confident" doesn't actually mean anything. I'm "pretty confident" that you're absolutely wrong about this, because we already have 3 factions (one of them by far the most popular in 40K). Based on the current player base, even if you doubled the number of factions you'd STILL have a tiny player base.

For you to be "pretty confident", you almost have to assume each new faction would have some bizarre multiplicative effect on the player base. I guess if Chaos was introduced, you'd have all of the CSM players buy the game and start playing furiously, which would necessitate a righteous response from Space Marines. Naturally all of the Orks players would be drawn to the conflict (for the sake of fightin') and so to would the Eldar with their scheming (assholes). All of the sudden we've gone from 700 max players nightly to 2500, right!?

Stoner is not wrong about races improving player numbers. I also agree with them focusing on PVP and Coop. Coop is what this game needs eventually to cater to other peoples needs. U are right single player content is important but id rather see coop first before single player content

If someone whats to make this game popular and inprove the longevity of the game to inprove activity in the competitive sene. It can be done in many ways one way is. i think we need small $1000 tournaments each month to keep players playing and each year a larger tournoment off $5000-$10000 adding excitement and keeping players active this is just an idea but in my opinion thats the only way we are going to keep players from leaveing this can be done for few years till the game an expo or done for a yearly period for 5-10 years it will enhance the game itself which will help it be developed and ballenced so the game can be improved and built apon. Otherwise we need tool to build more content or a new race or more in built maps in future expos because there seems like there are lots of player here that will build on this game if you provide more tools for us to use.

@CANNED_F3TUS said:
Stoner is not wrong about races improving player numbers. I also agree with them focusing on PVP and Coop. Coop is what this game needs eventually to cater to other peoples needs. U are right single player content is important but id rather see coop first before single player content

The game is already so fundamentally tilted towards multiplayer that I agree it would be wrong to shift the focus now. That being said, an increase in factions would only bring a marginal increase in players. To suggest otherwise, like I already said, would require each race added to have a multiplicative effect on the player base, something that's never happened before and there's nothing to suggest it would.

I think the super powerful elites is off-putting because not all elites are created equal and the game feels like it is all about the elites. Elites are what you have to rely on to wipe your opponents blobs, even more so now that quickstrike, assault leap, trukk, stikbombs, have been nerfed significantly.

Imo, the game gets boring relatively fast, and you really do get that moba-esque feel when you are shredding your opponents armies with elites alone. I have to wonder if there is a hope for this game, given that it is designed to be that way. Strategies are very limited. Every game is won the same way with little adaptation.

Also, the game doesn't seem to know who its target audience is. It seems like an attempt to casualize the RTS genre, which has traditionally been more in the realm of a thinking mans game. Though the DoW could be considered an exception, the focus on tactical combat and micro hasn't been such a necessary skill as with past RTS games where you can follow a formulaic base building strategy and mostly win based on the % chance to win of that particular strategy.

I'm sure that the success of Total War Warhammer emboldened the design of DoW3 to appeal to casuals, though to what degree came from Relic or SEGA, it seems dubious we will ever know. Lets hope that the industry has gotten the idea that casualizing the RTS genre was a major mistake.

The game would benefit from a test server where we can test out radical ideas, such as decreasing the strength of effects of elites by 50%, or alternatively, increasing line unit HP, and maps where you don't have resource nodes that have protection from harass.

@frumpylumps said:
I think the super powerful elites is off-putting because not all elites are created equal and the game feels like it is all about the elites. Elites are what you have to rely on to wipe your opponents blobs, even more so now that quickstrike, assault leap, trukk, stikbombs, have been nerfed significantly.

Imo, the game gets boring relatively fast, and you really do get that moba-esque feel when you are shredding your opponents armies with elites alone. I have to wonder if there is a hope for this game, given that it is designed to be that way. Strategies are very limited. Every game is won the same way with little adaptation.

Also, the game doesn't seem to know who its target audience is. It seems like an attempt to casualize the RTS genre, which has traditionally been more in the realm of a thinking mans game. Though the DoW could be considered an exception, the focus on tactical combat and micro hasn't been such a necessary skill as with past RTS games where you can follow a formulaic base building strategy and mostly win based on the % chance to win of that particular strategy.

I'm sure that the success of Total War Warhammer emboldened the design of DoW3 to appeal to casuals, though to what degree came from Relic or SEGA, it seems dubious we will ever know. Lets hope that the industry has gotten the idea that casualizing the RTS genre was a major mistake.

The game would benefit from a test server where we can test out radical ideas, such as decreasing the strength of effects of elites by 50%, or alternatively, increasing line unit HP, and maps where you don't have resource nodes that have protection from harass.

Not sure what you are getting at with every game is being won the same way..... This is a RTS you win by simply playing better than your opponent. In DoW 2 you would win the same way and often would play the same way.

Dont get the casualization because DoW 3 has a pretty steep learning curve. Its harder to play than DoW 2 i know and experienced that much.

Also Elites are going to lose some of their impact once relic improves line unit health by up to 25% possibly and alot of elites already lose their bite depending on how they scale. Early game elites are strong early game but move into more of a support role later on with alot of late game elites being counterable with what you have in line units or other elites

Lets all hope that DOW3 is a complete remake of DOW1, meaning that in roughly 8 months we will get a revamped version of winter assault that will include IG and CSM. Then another 12 months until Necron and Tau, then of course around 24months until SOB and DE.. bringing the game back to its former glory and supplying them all with jobs for the next 5 years

@0riginal_z0M said:
Lets all hope that DOW3 is a complete remake of DOW1, meaning that in roughly 8 months we will get a revamped version of winter assault that will include IG and CSM. Then another 12 months until Necron and Tau, then of course around 24months until SOB and DE.. bringing the game back to its former glory and supplying them all with jobs for the next 5 years

I think its higher chance that this is pretty much it, like I said in my other thread.

Relic is done with current Dow3 the only thing they will do in the future are some balance changes and maybe with good luck make a stand alone expansion without using the name DoW3.

Come on guys wake up a little the game came out 4 months and they still didn't add any content DLC or even gave a hint that they are working on a new faction the only thing they said is that they actually arent working atm on new factions.

@frumpylumps said:
I think the super powerful elites is off-putting because not all elites are created equal and the game feels like it is all about the elites. Elites are what you have to rely on to wipe your opponents blobs, even more so now that quickstrike, assault leap, trukk, stikbombs, have been nerfed significantly.

Imo, the game gets boring relatively fast, and you really do get that moba-esque feel when you are shredding your opponents armies with elites alone. I have to wonder if there is a hope for this game, given that it is designed to be that way. Strategies are very limited. Every game is won the same way with little adaptation.

Also, the game doesn't seem to know who its target audience is. It seems like an attempt to casualize the RTS genre, which has traditionally been more in the realm of a thinking mans game. Though the DoW could be considered an exception, the focus on tactical combat and micro hasn't been such a necessary skill as with past RTS games where you can follow a formulaic base building strategy and mostly win based on the % chance to win of that particular strategy.

I'm sure that the success of Total War Warhammer emboldened the design of DoW3 to appeal to casuals, though to what degree came from Relic or SEGA, it seems dubious we will ever know. Lets hope that the industry has gotten the idea that casualizing the RTS genre was a major mistake.

The game would benefit from a test server where we can test out radical ideas, such as decreasing the strength of effects of elites by 50%, or alternatively, increasing line unit HP, and maps where you don't have resource nodes that have protection from harass.

Not sure what you are getting at with every game is being won the same way..... This is a RTS you win by simply playing better than your opponent. In DoW 2 you would win the same way and often would play the same way.

Because whatever faction you are vs, you will always spam lass cannons and dreadnaught, deathstorm, Dark reaper and fire prisms, and often use the same elites. Though that probably couldn't be said as much when playing orks.

People are still playing DoW1 fanatically, cause of the great mods FoK and UA.
Definitely this game needs more races, I don't play much cause i want CSM.
There is a disconnect issue needs to be fixed.
I already said we need seasons, leagues, ladder.
Daily quests giving skull rewards.
More 123vs maps.
I like this game but needs improvement.

@frumpylumps said:
Imo, the game gets boring relatively fast, and you really do get that moba-esque feel when you are shredding your opponents armies with elites alone. I have to wonder if there is a hope for this game, given that it is designed to be that way. Strategies are very limited. Every game is won the same way with little adaptation.

Also, the game doesn't seem to know who its target audience is. It seems like an attempt to casualize the RTS genre, which has traditionally been more in the realm of a thinking mans game. Though the DoW could be considered an exception, the focus on tactical combat and micro hasn't been such a necessary skill as with past RTS games where you can follow a formulaic base building strategy and mostly win based on the % chance to win of that particular strategy.

I was surprised to see this was written by you. It seems like a pretty big reversal since the game first came out, though i don't mean that as a criticism. I think you've written a pretty clear summary of some of the complaints I have. The influence of MOBAs on the game is hard to miss and I think that this was probably the game's downfall. I love MOBA games, and I love RTS, but I love them for two very different reasons and Relic seems to have missed what makes each of them great on their own in their apparent attempt to combine the two.

@frumpylumps said:
I think the super powerful elites is off-putting because not all elites are created equal and the game feels like it is all about the elites. Elites are what you have to rely on to wipe your opponents blobs, even more so now that quickstrike, assault leap, trukk, stikbombs, have been nerfed significantly.

Imo, the game gets boring relatively fast, and you really do get that moba-esque feel when you are shredding your opponents armies with elites alone. I have to wonder if there is a hope for this game, given that it is designed to be that way. Strategies are very limited. Every game is won the same way with little adaptation.

Also, the game doesn't seem to know who its target audience is. It seems like an attempt to casualize the RTS genre, which has traditionally been more in the realm of a thinking mans game. Though the DoW could be considered an exception, the focus on tactical combat and micro hasn't been such a necessary skill as with past RTS games where you can follow a formulaic base building strategy and mostly win based on the % chance to win of that particular strategy.

I'm sure that the success of Total War Warhammer emboldened the design of DoW3 to appeal to casuals, though to what degree came from Relic or SEGA, it seems dubious we will ever know. Lets hope that the industry has gotten the idea that casualizing the RTS genre was a major mistake.

The game would benefit from a test server where we can test out radical ideas, such as decreasing the strength of effects of elites by 50%, or alternatively, increasing line unit HP, and maps where you don't have resource nodes that have protection from harass.

Not sure what you are getting at with every game is being won the same way..... This is a RTS you win by simply playing better than your opponent. In DoW 2 you would win the same way and often would play the same way.

Because whatever faction you are vs, you will always spam lass cannons and dreadnaught, deathstorm, Dark reaper and fire prisms, and often use the same elites. Though that probably couldn't be said as much when playing orks.

and I would disagree that DoW3 is harder to learn than DoW2

Most of these things you are talking about can be addressed with balance tweaks. These units are overperforming.

In DoW 2 the same ++heresy redacted++ would happen. U play the commander u are comfortable with and your army roster or build hardly ever changed with most races because of the nature of how units could flex combat roles.

@frumpylumps said:
I think the super powerful elites is off-putting because not all elites are created equal and the game feels like it is all about the elites. Elites are what you have to rely on to wipe your opponents blobs, even more so now that quickstrike, assault leap, trukk, stikbombs, have been nerfed significantly.

Imo, the game gets boring relatively fast, and you really do get that moba-esque feel when you are shredding your opponents armies with elites alone. I have to wonder if there is a hope for this game, given that it is designed to be that way. Strategies are very limited. Every game is won the same way with little adaptation.

Also, the game doesn't seem to know who its target audience is. It seems like an attempt to casualize the RTS genre, which has traditionally been more in the realm of a thinking mans game. Though the DoW could be considered an exception, the focus on tactical combat and micro hasn't been such a necessary skill as with past RTS games where you can follow a formulaic base building strategy and mostly win based on the % chance to win of that particular strategy.

I'm sure that the success of Total War Warhammer emboldened the design of DoW3 to appeal to casuals, though to what degree came from Relic or SEGA, it seems dubious we will ever know. Lets hope that the industry has gotten the idea that casualizing the RTS genre was a major mistake.

The game would benefit from a test server where we can test out radical ideas, such as decreasing the strength of effects of elites by 50%, or alternatively, increasing line unit HP, and maps where you don't have resource nodes that have protection from harass.

Wait a sec, weren't you the one who was trash talking everyone who criticized this game in steam reviews and forums, and now you're saying same thing they do? Outstanding.

Well everyone was crying before about quickstrike, assault leap, stikbombs and suicide bombs being to strong so its not surprising that they nerfed all of this. People also cry about the flamer, it gets nerfed too. Soon they maybe change the whole system giving infantry more health and elites will become weaker too. As long as people keep crying they will nerf things and afterwards its easy to say oh now all is to weak.

@frumpylumps said:
I think the super powerful elites is off-putting because not all elites are created equal and the game feels like it is all about the elites. Elites are what you have to rely on to wipe your opponents blobs, even more so now that quickstrike, assault leap, trukk, stikbombs, have been nerfed significantly.

Imo, the game gets boring relatively fast, and you really do get that moba-esque feel when you are shredding your opponents armies with elites alone. I have to wonder if there is a hope for this game, given that it is designed to be that way. Strategies are very limited. Every game is won the same way with little adaptation.

Also, the game doesn't seem to know who its target audience is. It seems like an attempt to casualize the RTS genre, which has traditionally been more in the realm of a thinking mans game. Though the DoW could be considered an exception, the focus on tactical combat and micro hasn't been such a necessary skill as with past RTS games where you can follow a formulaic base building strategy and mostly win based on the % chance to win of that particular strategy.

I'm sure that the success of Total War Warhammer emboldened the design of DoW3 to appeal to casuals, though to what degree came from Relic or SEGA, it seems dubious we will ever know. Lets hope that the industry has gotten the idea that casualizing the RTS genre was a major mistake.

The game would benefit from a test server where we can test out radical ideas, such as decreasing the strength of effects of elites by 50%, or alternatively, increasing line unit HP, and maps where you don't have resource nodes that have protection from harass.

Wait a sec, weren't you the one who was trash talking everyone who criticized this game in steam reviews and forums, and now you're saying same thing they do? Outstanding.