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He doesn’t consider he is married any more
He looks at other women
Sometimes he has the urge to go out and find another woman.
There are many women who would be available to him.
He could get almost any woman he wanted
He would like to have sex with someone else (only me ever)
He doesn’t owe me anything.
He has done as much as he can
I am not his soulmate, never could be
I conned him into marrying me (I got pregnant, definitely not on purpose last thing I wanted)
None of his previous girlfriends would have done what I did.
I am not to expect any more than I have now.
Sex is out of the question.
Affection is out of the question.
He would be angry if I told the kids the situation
Hugging has been withdrawn, because I did not take him up on his “offer” that he did not “mind” if I hugged him..
He reserves the right to “out” me if I do not behave.
He reserves the right to fire me if I do not do my job to his satisfaction
He thinks of me as a friend
Any new relationship would be based on my changing into someone he would like.
All the money is his and is a result of his hard work, nothing to do with anything I did to help.
None of my ‘whys’ are acceptable, I have not dug deep enough.
I am not to ask him for anything more.
He would be happy for me if I found someone else

All these are headings only..Each one has an entire story behind it

Posts: 601 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: limbo

MissesJai♀ 24849Member # 24849

Posted: 6:07 PM, April 29th (Monday), 2013

wow!!!! OMG cissie - I'm so sorry...What are you going to do?

FWW - 42
"Unexpressed feelings never die. They are buried and come back in uglier ways." - Stephen R. Covey

Posts: 6141 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....

Darkness Falls♀ 27879Member # 27879

Posted: 6:20 PM, April 29th (Monday), 2013

Cissie,

It's been going on like this for a long time. Do you really want to live the rest of your life this way?

(((Hugs)))

WS, 5-month EA/PA '09-'10

Divorced and remarried to XBH

Posts: 2791 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Central Florida

IGaveItMyAll♂ 38622Member # 38622

Posted: 6:50 PM, April 29th (Monday), 2013

BS here. All I hear is bitterness in all those headings. R takes two. First I would question his motives. Why is he even around then. Sounds like the A was a deal breaker. He is just putting you through a living/controling hell. I am a BS and wouldn't ever wish that upon my WW. I made a decision to work through this together not enslave her despite my insecurities. I suggest you get out. That is not healthy by any means.

Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier

Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011

Unagie♀ 37091Member # 37091

Posted: 11:09 PM, April 29th (Monday), 2013

He would like to have sex with someone else (only me ever

)
and

He doesn’t owe me anything.

and

He has done as much as he can

and

I am not to expect any more than I have now.

and

Affection is out of the question.

and

He would be happy for me if I found someone else

All of those are things I have heard from my SO, difference here is that he had an EA that he does not consider an EA. I get how painful the things you just listed are but you need to decide if this is how you want to live for the rest of your life, is this what you truly deserve?

Truly reading your list my heart constricted and I kept thinking how is she living through this, why is he living like this? You need to make a decision as to how you would like to live your life so you are happy and healthy. You care about him, I get that and I know how painful it can be to feel like your walking away when we caused the initial pain through our actions but life cannot be misery...it would not be worth living that way.

Madhatter. Separated.

"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace." Ernie Banks

Posts: 3315 | Registered: Oct 2012

burntashes♀ 29446Member # 29446

Posted: 1:07 AM, April 30th (Tuesday), 2013

cissie, read the list you wrote as if it's something your child's future spouse expects - would you want your child to be living with this person? He said he thinks of you as a friend? What kind of friend wants to control you financially, walk all over you and disrespect you, and tell you to better accept a life with no dignity?

Honestly when I read your history I see a lot of fear, you being afraid of his reaction. This is unhealthy for you and not good for him. You can't control how he feels and what he does, even if you bend yourselves backwards in lies to please him. All this does is encourage him to feel more domination over you, and even less need to respect you. This is no way to live. You can't have a healthy or real loving relationship without mutual dignity and respect. Love yourself enough to expect dignity and respect for yourself.

I understand that you may be bound by guilt and care for him, but you can't live this way, and you can't let your children think that this is an acceptable way to live. What is the worst that would happen if you told him that his expectations are not acceptable, that if you were to continue living together it would have to be a true marriage where both have to honor it and respect each other and work as a team? And if he can't commit to that, you respect that the A was a dealbreaker for him but you have to leave to lead a life with self respect and dignity? Don't threaten, but honestly and humbly mean it. You have to learn to love yourself before someone else can love you the way you deserve, not thru an affair and not the way your husband is treating you. Let go of fear and tell him very honestly what you need and ask if he can respect it. The best way to love him is to treat him like an adult, not a child you need to hide things from. If you two can't come to an agreement, it's worth whatever it takes to live separately so that you can both live a dignified life.

"Sometimes your cards ain't worth a dime if you don't lay 'em down." And sometimes a new, healthier love relationship can't form if you don't turn away from the old, unhealthy one, sometimes with the same person.

BS here...I have not read your entire story, but feel compelled to show you support. If lots of time has passed, you did all of the proper things on your end to try and R and you are still getting this kind of treatment, it was a deal-breaker for him. He may not want to admit it, but it obviously ended the M for him.
You did something to hurt him, you can only do so much to fix it. Changing your entire person, that is mean hurtful and unfair. The only thing you needed to change was whatever behavior led to the A and the other M problems that contributed. You needed to show remorse and support him. However, you do NOT need to support this kind of treatment. If it were a few months after, I'd say give him time to simmer, but its obvious he doesnt intend to.

Posts: 279 | Registered: Mar 2013

TrustGone♀ 36654Member # 36654

Posted: 8:24 AM, April 30th (Tuesday), 2013

BS here. (((cissi)))

Sweetie, no one deserves to be treated with such disregard. R takes two people willing to try and fix the marriage. It sounds like he has no intention of wanting to do that. This sounds like pure and simple abuse to me. He is punishing you for the affair 5 yrs later???? If he is that unhappy he needs to get out of the marriage.

I understand you may feel guilty about the A and think you may deserve this, but you don't. No one deserves to be treated like this. You must get strong for yourself and demand to be treated like his wife, not some doormat. You need to 180 him and build up your self-esteem. Your kids do not need to witness this. Is this the way you want them to view marriage?? Only you can control yourself. Just like the BS can not control the WS. The WS can not control the BS. Please get into IC and start to detach from this situation. This is not normal BS behavior. (((HUGS)))

He is telling you what to expect, in your life, going forward. With the exception of

He thinks of me as a friend

, he is being brutal, but forthright.

The friend thing, though, is a lie he's telling himself. I suspect it makes it all right, in his mind, to express the other stuff. He is NOT your friend---at least not now.

Given everything else your husband has said, it doesn't sound as though friendship is even possible.

If you were anywhere near D-day, I'd say, "Give it time." But then, I'd also say that MUCH more than time is needed.

What did you do, closer in, to heal from your infidelity? What did you do for him, for yourself, for your marriage? Was there IC for both of you? MC? (And if not MC, was it because you did not feel safe together?)

If you were to do some of the things you may not have done then, do you think his feelings might change?

Or is this the way it is---and you're expected to silently accept it as your penance. You're LOTS of years out---does he even want to heal, to move forward constructively in your marriage? Or has he so thoroughly embraced his victim role that he can only find comfort in it, rather than in a happier, healthier relationship?

Certainly, what he's telling you is completely incompatible with any sort of constructive reconciliation. Are you okay with living your life this way? I have to say, it breaks my heart for you.

In your shoes, I'd spend some time investigating whether this is the new status quo, and whether your husband sees ANY way out of this terrible, terrible pattern.

Infidelity sucks, but its discovery does not carry a life sentence without parole---and in effect, he's given you one, garnishing the shit sandwich with, "But you're my friend."

Thing is, he's not your friend. Friends don't treat their friends this way. Be deludes himself that you have friendship because it somehow validates his otherwise utterly unacceptable (and IMO---as a BS who endured cheating for many years, with many partners--betrays you and your marriage as surely as sexual infidelity) stance regarding your marriage going forward.

You don't have to accept this, you know. You are worthy of love. You are worthy of a partner who respects and cherishes you. You are worthy of physical affection. You are worthy of ALL the good a marriage should carry.

R is hard, and not all BS make it. Not considering oneself M, re-writing the M history, looking at other women and thinking about sex with other women is wayward thought.

A one-sided M with one partner witholding affection, intimacy, and empathy is not sustainable. Wanting a partner who is acting how you want rather than being authentic is not healthy.

He has to want to stop being a victim and move towards acceptance and healthy if he wants a differnt life. Many of us turn to IC for ourselves, MC after our WS has gotten themself to the point of being a healthy and equal partner in the M. We swallow some pride, fake it till we make it, accept the past, lean into the hurt, and move forward, if that is what we want.

As I tell BS, you can only control your action. So what are you going to do? What do you want your life and your kids' life to be like (regardless of your BS) 1 year from now? % years from now? What can you do to start moving in that direction?

btw:

He thinks of me as a friend

I would not be involved in a frindship that was as asymetrical as the relationship you describe with your BS.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:37 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

LTA FBS 54
dday 10.5.09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4171 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL

JKL Vikings♂ 32094Member # 32094

Posted: 2:21 PM, April 30th (Tuesday), 2013

Cissie
hugs from Texas
I'm afraid it's time to go

Her- Alpha Female 41
Me-FWH 42
Married since '02, together since 2000
D-day 2/10/2009
3 sons- J- born Oct 2001
K- born Sept. 2005
L- born Apr. 2008
We ALL have issues. It's how we deal with them that makes the difference

Posts: 552 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Dallas, TX

badchoice♂ 35566Member # 35566

Posted: 2:26 PM, April 30th (Tuesday), 2013

I am really sorry to hear all of this. It must be hard.

Nothing to add, it's been said above me.

Just wanted to give you a hug too.

Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D

Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.

cissie♀ 17637Member # 17637

Posted: 6:45 PM, May 1st (Wednesday), 2013

Thank you for all your responses, I am traveling and on a different time zone with sporadic internet.

I am a coward. I am so afraid he will out me and I will lose my children’s respect. There will be no family occasions with the grandchildren, things will be awkward and painful. I know I should have thought of all this before, but I was arrogant and stupid. I feel very responsible for the way my BS is now. This is a trial he has been unable to overcome. He did nothing to deserve it, but to work hard for the family and I was too stupid to realize it. I have hung onto false hope, and it has only just started to sink in that there was never any.

From the outside I have an ideal life. We have an apparently happy marriage, although the cracks are showing as we spend less and less time with each other. We travel fairly frequently. He buys me expensive things from time to time to show what a good guy he is and we keep up the façade. The strain is telling on him though, as he is still angry. Infidelity is dreadful. It strikes at the core. It is truly horrible.

I did not realize it, but some years ago he had decided there would be no future for us as I had broken the marriage in his eyes. 4 years ago he threw his wedding ring into the ocean. He wears a ring now, but it is only for show. We have gone through years of him looking for what he had decided must be the truth. I did not know there was never any hope of reconciliation.

As I see it, if there is no hope, except that I become a totally different person, we will continue to drift further and further apart. My love for him is neither needed nor accepted. It takes two to begin to build, and he has no intention of investing any more. This is where my bitterness comes in.

I am going to counseling when I get back. I need some tools to deal with this, maybe get some happy pills and it won’t matter any more. I know that sounds like self pity, and it is. I was on Prozac a few years back and I was in my own little happy world. I could do with a bit of happy right now/

You mention that you might lose your children's respect if he outs you. I am not sure how old your children, mine are young, and I know one day they will know why their parents got divorced. I do fear that they will be upset with me, but I also know they will see the person who I have become, and know that I love them. BW and I decided that living in a unhealthy household was a worse situation.

That being said, I think modeling a loveless marriage could be more damaging to them in the long run. JMHO.

Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D

Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.

burntashes♀ 29446Member # 29446

Posted: 2:11 AM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013

(((cissie))), I can feel your pain thru your posts. Yes, we should have thought of the consequences before we went down this path, but time only marches forward, there's no do-over. All we have control over is today. Don't wish to change the past, today is the day we can make a difference.

I am so afraid he will out me and I will lose my children’s respect. There will be no family occasions with the grandchildren, things will be awkward and painful.

If you managed to endure this loveless marriage where your husband doesn't recognize or respect it until grandchildren come, would family occassions be joyful and not awkward or painful? It's your actions of having an affair previously that isn't deserving of respect, not the telling of the truth. The truth is you can't control how your children will react, but it also may not be the "end of the world" situation you imagined. All you can do is tell the truth, and live an authentic life from now on. How others perceive you is not your responsibility, so let go of trying to control what's not within your control.

My husband also said at some point that he didn't consider us married anymore, and he did have sex with other women after Dday. He admitted that it wasn't a good way to cope later, but said he couldn't respect me anymore. After a lot of painful talks I told him that I would do anything to be the wife he deserves if he would respect me as his wife, and he said he couldn't after what I did. We agreed to part. He told our daughter as I was getting her ready for school that he didn't want to live with me anymore because "mommy f'ed another man". I packed some things and moved out with my daughter that same day. I told my daughter that daddy and mommy wouldn't be living together anymore because mommy cheated on daddy. She was so sad it broke my heart. She asked me why did I marry daddy then? That was hard to hear from my six year old. I said because I loved him and I still do, but I made very stupid decisions before and he couldn't forgive me. I apologized to her and said I would never be stupid again. I talked to her and made sure she was doing ok. She said she still loves me and told me to not be stupid again, but she still thought I was the best mommy. I was humbled. I will tell her more when she's older and she can decide how she feels about me, but I want to make sure I teach her the importance of being honest and authentic.

During our time apart my husband felt I'd grown and asked me to move back. I was hesitant that nothing would change, but we agreed to work on mutual respect and it's been working better than I thought it would. I don't complain about his lack of affection like I used to. I just generally feel thankful that I have another chance at having a complete family and he's honoring his promises to work on himself. I just want to be there to take care of our daughter and be his friend whenever he wanted to share. To my surprise now he's initiating affections when I no longer feel needy. I think when I completely accept the past, even though I still trigger, I feel more peaceful and can let go of expectations of how I want him to feel. This makes us feel more at ease.

Sorry for the long t/j. I felt that the turning point in my relationship is when I gave up hope of our relationship and just worked on myself. I don't know how old your children are, but I believe it's best to be honest. Let go of your fears and just be honest. You're afraid of the fall, but you may just fly. When we face our fears and confront them with authenticity, we shine a light on the "what if" monster in the dark, and the monster may very well be not all that scary at all. You have that strength in you.

This is an amazing site.People here are so kind.
Mrs P. I think I have hoped for change for a long time. I have refused to see the writing on the wall because I cannot figure out what to do. I think have become so used to a limbo life, that I need some help to get up.
Burnt - Our children are all married, so there are daughters and sons-in-law who would have to know as well. I think that the wisdom here says that it was a true deal breaker for my BH and that he does not want to admit it. He says I killed the marriage, and I can understand that he is not able to expose himself to any further hurt by letting down his guard.

I attempted to have a discussion with him the other day. It did not go too well, but I think I did manage to show him that I do not forget what I have done, and that makes it difficult for me to move forward.
He is very logical, everything is black or white to him. What I did has no logic, no sense, no forethought, and most of all no concern for anyone but myself. He cannot understand this.

Posts: 601 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: limbo

Neithan♂ 35924Member # 35924

Posted: 6:15 PM, May 3rd (Friday), 2013

He says I killed the marriage

Have you asked why he's willing to live with the corpse of the marriage?

I'm sorry about your situation. It sounds like staying married is not good for either of you. While I can relate to his pitiable and incomprehensible demoralization from the betrayal, one must eventually move in a healthier direction.

Me: BH
Her: WW
D-Day: 2/19/2010
Married 1981
That which does not kill me makes me more irritable