Olive is level 12 because she has directly been involved in the capture many of the cities that compose Haffaton.

This doesn't mean she's clever, or has a wide variety of spells. We don't actually know what a high level caster gains.

Giving high level casters a lot of new spell types is something of a creative problem, because it means you've got to think of interesting and powerful spells for every type of spellcaster, and then include all the ways that they might be combined with a thinkamancer link, and all the ways they might be used in an unintended fashion.

It makes more sense to me, to assume that casters just retain one to three basic functions at all levels, their main "juice use," as well as a group of passive abilities that would be based on their personality just as much as the ruleset. After all, this is a real world, not a game, and not a roleplaying session. Every action of an individual, spellcasting included, doesn't have to fall into neat little boxes with strict limitations. Parson is an example of this. He is still low level, and this doesn't negatively affect him at all. It only affects certain types of combat interactions.

So what should a high level caster gain?In my opinion: the customary. A substantial increase in maximum juice, a modest increase in health and combat ability. I don't think anything like 'immunity to lower level spells' or 'increased numerical effect' or 'increased activation range' or 'increased effect range' is applicable at all. These are sweeping concepts that usually become arbitrarily stronger or weaker than intended. All caster uniqueness should be based on the individual caster.

Getting back to the update, I'm really curious what, if any, connection Janis and Olive have. Janis says she wants to beat war itself. Olive hasn't revealed any motives, other than a kind of insane ambivalence towards the free will of others.

But going through the Novice, Adept and Master requires a deeper insight into the class and absolutely -must- come with new spells and/or abilities to represent those insights.

What I want to know, is how the boop Dame Branch knew where to find Jillian. For a side a large a we've been led to believe Haffaton is, it isn't probable that she just happened to be close enough and have enough move to scout the area out.

This exactly is my problem with today's update. I generally love the comic, but this just annoyed me. Also how did she get there part 2, Haffaton doesn't have flyers, but she not only kept up with a dragon, but out moved one to get in front of Jillian. Overall not happy with this dragon crap recapture.

Unless it turned out that they actually did cut a deal with Charley to have them trail Jillian but not tell her, let her think she was not being pursued so Haffaton could track her back home. The Archons could stay concealed and trail at a distance - following a yellow Dwagon shouldn't be difficult, especially veiled at a higher altitude while Jillian was concentrating on being spotted from the ground.

I can see Olive having something like 'Pass Plant' that would let her enter a tree at one place and leave at another (I recall a druid D&D spell like that). If the Archons told them where Jillian had settled for the night, Olive could be there immediately. I just wonder why they didn't just keep following her to close enough to FAQ, though. Also, if Jillian is once again a captive of Haffaton, then once again, she doesn't get FAQs turn, she's bound to Haffaton's turn.

_________________The Truth Will Set You Free. But First It Will Piss You Off.

A Florist of that caliber may well have the ability to travel between plants, as well as divine the location of enemy units through them, within their side's territory. This, of course, would make Olive extremely scary. Or, Haffaton may have other casters at their disposal enabling such rapid travel whom we are as of yet unaware. I'm a Stagemancer, so I don't claim to know the particulars about Hippiemancy with any degree of certainty.

_________________"It's your final curtain call, Hat Magician. Only one thing left to do..."

What I want to know, is how the boop Dame Branch knew where to find Jillian. For a side a large a we've been led to believe Haffaton is, it isn't probable that she just happened to be close enough and have enough move to scout the area out.

This exactly is my problem with today's update. I generally love the comic, but this just annoyed me. Also how did she get there part 2, Haffaton doesn't have flyers, but she not only kept up with a dragon, but out moved one to get in front of Jillian. Overall not happy with this dragon crap recapture.

Werebiscuit previously wrote:

Also do we actually know Delphine was killed at the fall of Goodminton ? It would make sense for Haffaton to capture ALL the Casters (Delphine and Clay as well as Wanda). Perhaps Delphine is still working to bring Wanda to her fate by trying to toget Jillian back to Wanda even if Jillian chooses "the hard way".

It makes sense if Haffaton have a predictamancer, say Delphine. Olive could have been moving into the general area predicted by, whoever the predictamancer was *cough* Delphine *cough* when Jillian started her escape. Olive would have plenty of time to get positional updates on Jillian and narrow down the exact hex and tree that Jillian used. It also makes sense that Delphine would predict Jillians response to her finding of the hat and wand and work to mitigate any "hard way" options.

Oh, how much use GK would get from a florist like that. Win any open field fight with enough crap dwagons without (potentially) losing any units. Also, let's imagine a city fight:

1. florist casts a no-engaging spell2. Yellow dwagons bomb the crap out of them (literally), croaking enemy units3. Wanda decrypts all the fallen enemy troops inside the city4. Sizemore animates all the crap inside the city into golems (creating golems is a supportive spell)5. Wait a turn6. ...7. Profit!

Based on the insight we've seen from various casters, I assume it's safe to surmise the following:As casters increase in LEVEL they get more JuiceAs they increase in "RANK" (Adept, Novice, ect) they gain access to more complex spells (and could do more things in a tri-link perhaps)

Also it was nice to see Reach mentioned, so we have that thing clarified for us. Now we know that in Heavy Forest hexes, only ranged or reach units that are also Forest-Capable can attack fliers.

And finally on the topic of speculation, I'm actually a little pleased at this development. Yeah I'm annoyed that Jillian was dumb, but after last update I suspected that Olive would come to find Jillian alone...and that Wanda would also come, providing the perfect chance to kill Olive and turn.

_________________"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."

In the song Olive makes reference to "Sitting in an Olive tree," Olive is capitalized and the tree is actually a 'fir tree'. Unless Olive is making a general reference that all of the trees in Haffaton territory are hers, then I would guess that this tree was already prepared for such a purpose.

I wonder if Hippiemancy is able to take natural allies like Gumps or Tannenbaums and turn them into dormant trees ready to be activated. I would guess they also act as 'spies' for Haffaton as well - reporting movement of enemy troops through the hex without being counted as actual units until activated.

Or, of course, Tannenbaums could just be Hippiemancy golems that may be able to enter a dormant state when not in use.

In either case I would assume that the 'dormant' state reduces upkeep (if any).

It would also explain the sneak attack on Goodminton. Olive could have used Flower Power to create Tannenbaums in the surrounding Forest so they wouldn't have been detected until it was too late. If they also provided some remote scouting reports to Olive that would also explain how she was able to get there so fast.

Last edited by joosy on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Given Haffaton's size, and their preferred method of conquer with minimal actual fighting, I suspect that if they didn't pop a Predictamancer, they have probably captured one by now. Or Lookamancer for that matter. Based on the general direction of Jillian's movement so far, and the knowledge that she took Goodminton, and the fact that she encountered a Warlord earlier (so the Dwagon's move would be known) it actually shouldn't be very hard to figure out where Jillian ended turn even without using Magic.

_________________"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."

And I was like, ‘Why did you even say anything! If I’d stayed on course I wouldn’t’ve gotten attacked!’ And she’d say, ‘Yes, you would.’ And sometimes I’d even go back and look to see there was no ambush that way, and she’d still say—Whoa!”

Quote:

Neo: How did you know? Oracle: Ohh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything?

Digging up a bit of an argument from the last update about if Wanda is still the Heir to Goodmitten.

When an Heir's capital falls, the Heir and everyone stacked with him/her becomes a barbarian.

That's it. You don't belong to any side anymore, because your side no longer exists. You are now a barbarian tribe no different from any other.

You could certainly return to your old capital site and start a new side, but as far as Erfworld mechanics are concerned this is no different from you reclaiming any other capital site and starting a new side. We saw when Jillian claimed the old FAQ capital ruins, she could have chose to name her new side whatever she pleased but, due to lack of imagination, she just named it FAQ. She could have captured Goodmitten or Spacerock and renamed it FAQ (theoretically), it makes no difference.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that any barbarian warlord can start a new side if they capture a capital site. We know the 'world' randomly spawns barbarian tribes in the wilderness that can be hired as mercs, croaked for XPs or captured and turned. They are equally eligible to recapture FAQ or Goodmitten and make a new side. Wanda the barbarian is functionally no different then any other wandering babarian warlord. She stopped being Heir to Goodmitten the moment Goodmitten fell.

Using plants as spies, turning plants into units, travelling through plants, making plant traps, making enemy units bliss out, poisoning rations, and eliminating the possibility of engaging (either targeted like how Janis hit Jojo, or hex-wide how Olive has been depicted). Florists seem to be quite versatile. and with that power set, I wouldn't be surprised if all of Haffaton's expansion was just in forested hexes.

I wonder if they also don't have some sort of bonus for being in a forest hex.

Also do we actually know Delphine was killed at the fall of Goodminton ? It would make sense for Haffaton to capture ALL the Casters (Delphine and Clay as well as Wanda). Perhaps Delphine is still working to bring Wanda to her fate by trying to toget Jillian back to Wanda even if Jillian chooses "the hard way".

Wanda felt Delphine croak while she was briefly Overlord of Goodminton. So no, Delphine is definitely dead.

Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 026 wrote:

She was Overlord of Goodminton! And...and there were almost no units to count. Fritz was gone. Clay was gone. Delphie was there in the tower, wounded.

Additional: I also had the instant reaction of WHAT ABOUT WANDA'S FLOWER? I suspect Olive really is still alive. I actually wonder if it's possible for her to be Charlie (Charlie almost certainly doesn't have to be in that tower, especially if he wants everyone to believe he is). Whether she is or isn't Charlie, though, a super-powerful character with an interest in clever rule-bending tactics isn't going to get randomly killed off. It would be a waste.

Remember: This is meant to be its own separate story, even if it provides background for main characters. This wasn't planned as part of the original plot, at least not the stuff that would be given to us in this sort of detail.

I suspect she'll die, because this story needs an ending -- some sort of emotional catharsis. As, basically, the Big Bad of the whole Inner Peace saga, it's natural to expect that Olive will die for that purpose.

Additional: I also had the instant reaction of WHAT ABOUT WANDA'S FLOWER? I suspect Olive really is still alive. I actually wonder if it's possible for her to be Charlie (Charlie almost certainly doesn't have to be in that tower, especially if he wants everyone to believe he is). Whether she is or isn't Charlie, though, a super-powerful character with an interest in clever rule-bending tactics isn't going to get randomly killed off. It would be a waste.

Remember: This is meant to be its own separate story, even if it provides background for main characters. This wasn't planned as part of the original plot, at least not the stuff that would be given to us in this sort of detail.

I suspect she'll die, because this story needs an ending -- some sort of emotional catharsis. As, basically, the Big Bad of the whole Inner Peace saga, it's natural to expect that Olive will die for that purpose.

I hope she doesn't die. Seeing her in the Magic Kingdom in the future would be fun.

Also do we actually know Delphine was killed at the fall of Goodminton ? It would make sense for Haffaton to capture ALL the Casters (Delphine and Clay as well as Wanda). Perhaps Delphine is still working to bring Wanda to her fate by trying to toget Jillian back to Wanda even if Jillian chooses "the hard way".

Wanda felt Delphine croak while she was briefly Overlord of Goodminton. So no, Delphine is definitely dead.

Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 026 wrote:

She was Overlord of Goodminton! And...and there were almost no units to count. Fritz was gone. Clay was gone. Delphie was there in the tower, wounded.

In Wanda's head, Delphie's light went out as well. Gone.

Her light went out in Wanda's head". Wanda can no longer sense her. Overlords cannot sense units not on their side. Any unit that gets captured, or any unit that gets turned is no longer on the same side. Wanda would be unable to sense Delphie if she croaks, turns or gets captured. Her fate is still up in the air. And I for one, if I attacked a city with overwhelming force would order the casters captured at all costs.

Ok, it's rare for me to dislike a character, but Olive fits that bill.

Smug little.... grrrr. Kinda reminds me of Tom in "Tom and Jerry". Wins too damn easily and you wish the booping cat would eat her face off just once....

Since Jillian has set her plans in motion, wonder how this development will complicate things.

Also, was the Predictamancy scroll somehow implying she was supposed to directly return to Wanda? I never saw that, and was figuring that Jillian would just have captured Wanda. The forum commenting on the previous page confused me as it seemed like there was nothing stating she had to give up her attempts at escape and immediately return to submit.

Since Jillian has set her plans in motion, wonder how this development will complicate things.

Also, was the Predictamancy scroll somehow implying she was supposed to directly return to Wanda? I never saw that, and was figuring that Jillian would just have captured Wanda. The forum commenting on the previous page confused me as it seemed like there was nothing stating she had to give up her attempts at escape and immediately return to submit.

I would guess that Banhammer would run it by Marie who would determine if Fate intended for them to follow Jillian's order or not.

It would seem that Predictamancy has Jillian and Wanda teaming up against Haffaton but how that comes about is going to be a little harder on Jillian that it needed to be. I imagine that if she had contacted Wanda via the hat first then Wanda could have warned her on how to avoid Olive and her tricks (assuming her Duty allows her to betray her side like that) and then Wanda could turn when FAQ attacked Haffaton. Conversely, Wanda could have led Jillian into a trap and had her brought back to her and teamed up that way as well. Regardless, the end result is the same. Of course, this still doesn't explain the development of the love interest between Wanda and Jillian. Love messes with the dice, subverts duty and loyalty with free will, and will probably have a big part to play in the overall Erfworld saga.

And another thing is, we know there are archons in Haffaton's airspace even now. So, how does Olive know where Jillian is exactly? Two possibilities: 1) she is talking with plants and 2) she is talking with archons.

Oh, BOOP. That's why Jillian should have surrendered. Olive has been tracking her the entire time via plants, and has possibly narrowed down Haffaton's search for Faq to a few dozen hexes. And with the ability to "Talk to Plants", I could see that Olive would have an excellent chance at seeing through a veil.

Surrendering would have meant avoiding putting Faq at obscene levels of risk. We do know that Faq survives, but it's probably gonna be a nail-biter nonetheless.

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