6th Gen has improved alot, a long way from 2004 anyway. I dont see Koharu as the rivalry type though...... who knows, she could be plotting while putting on that ignorant smile that she has 100% of the time.

None of the members would want to have a rivalry with her though because she's a couple years younger than all of them. It'd be embarrassing. Most likely rivalry for her would be with one of the Berryz or Cute girls, who are nearer her age.

BTW, rivalry doesn't always mean that you're going side by side against the other person. As the younger members advance it encourages the older members to work harder not to be out done by their lowers, and it works the other way like as the older members advance the younger members don't want to be left behind.

for me, koharu isnt a rivalry type. she does get to do more and seem like she's really advancing the senpais .. but it's more like she was given the chance easily. she was what Tsunku called miracle and it's like he's proving his own statement so he give her more chance. not like she's working for it.

i'm not saying she dont deserve those chances or who deserve them more than her. but i dont think it's "rivalry" that got her what she has now.

it's like they are sisters in the group right now. they dont compete with each other. they help each other. and maybe it's the age difference? could it be that koharu and eri wont compete with Yossi and Miki because they are much older and more experienced in they group? i mean the first-fouth gen were around the same age, except yuko.

and maybe it's the age difference? could it be that koharu and eri wont compete with Yossi and Miki because they are much older and more experienced in they group? i mean the first-fouth gen were around the same age, except yuko.

In Koharu's case I think the difference in age (maturity) and experience is too big for her to be considered a "threat" to any of her sempai. At this point she's still mostly just learning by imitating, as she should.

As for Miki, I feel she's always (well, after some period of adjustment into the group) had a position that's hard to challenge, even when older members where still in MM, because of her solo career. Even then, differences in age/years of experience in MM were somewhat offset by a difference in achievements, thereby making it hard to establish a clear sempai/kohai relationship. At least, that's the impression I got.

To be honest, I think the whole MM group consists of a bunch of losers. It's as if when someone makes fun of 'em, they just go, "uh, okay *smiles*."I think MM needs a complete overhaul. The 7th gen was a waste.

^ Kinda agree. When you have more than 1 within the same gen, it helps to bring out the passion to win which was lacking in 7th gen and now 8th gen. Comparing is tough i know, but it makes you want to compete.

Shhhh I'm trying to push the bashing thread back to where it belongs >_> Annoys me when I come back and every time THAT'S the latest thread people replied to!!! It was never this popular before and it scares me

The later generations definitely seem like there more interested in not upsetting everyone than getting to the top.

Maybe there is some stuff that goes on behind the scenes and we just don't see it, but I just couldn't imagine anything like that first shuffle group ASAYAN. Seemed like everyone had ambitions of being the lead for their group, even if they realistically didn't have a shot.

Is it fair to say it was indeed the lack of promotion from the agency (and other poor management decisions) that caused MM's popularity to drop, instead of the lack of rivalry?

Does current MM have rivalry?

I still don't get the sense they'd have the same kind of rivalry that the classic MM did, but it still feels like they're working hard. Could it be that they learned from Sayu who was doing it for the group, rather than doing it for herself?

There's little to no doubt about it, the lack of/poor promotion was the main factor in their drop in popularity and overall sales of their singles and albums. Now granted, MM and the other H!P groups were still clearly a pretty strong draw at concerts, however, compared to other artists and other idols groups, their sales figures were sad.

One cannot help but wonder how much MORE they could have done and how much MORE success MM could have had during that time (both commercially/financially as well as artistically) had their promotion been able to keep up with the levels of promotion that other idol groups (e.g. the *48 conglomerate, Momoclo, E-girls, BABYMETAL, etc.) were getting.

Bottom line, if you want to be profitable/successful in the music business you cannot act like how TPTB at Up-Front were acting back during MM's Platinum Era. They ignored/denied basic economics and the basic, fundamental premise of one of the biggest factors of what makes musical artists/groups commercially successful; namely, more media exposure leads to more people finding out and potentially becoming fans of the group. The more people you have becoming fans of the group, the more singles/albums/merchandise you sell, which means you're making more money. When you look at the popular idols and idol groups, be it the current ones or ones from the past, what's the one thing that they all have in common?

Their music SELLS. It sells because they're popular, and they in turn are popular because it sells.

The more it sells, the more money you make.

The more money you make = WINNING.

People will not buy your/your group's product if you are not doing a good enough job of:a) informing the masses that it's actually out there, and b) making it appealing enough that people decide that they want to buy it.

Make good songs/singles/albums, but more importantly, TELL people about them, show them that it's good and why it's good. Give them a reason to WANT to buy it. Give them a reason to like/love/become fans of your group other than just it's name.

I actually sense some more internal rivalry in the group now for the center position than in the platinum era.

I think the rivalry was more real among 1st to 3rd gen. I think the 1st gen members saw the 2nd gen members as parasites who would leech off their hard work. The addition of Goto Maki who was packaged as an ace was the peak of that tension, I think. 4th gen was the neutralizer. I feel like, by then, the addition of new members had become commonplace in the group that the 1st gen members were kind of resigned to their level of exposure. Then the rivalry sense just went downhill from there.

I think rivalry doesn't really affect the marketing and sales aspect of the production. Japanese media is over-saturated with young women/girls that the general public cannot care for the individual members the same way they cared about the golden era members. In this context, any nuance as regards their internal relations is only noticeable and consequential to loyal hardcore fans.

I don't think AKB is MM's rival. MM didn't lose to them. MM lost to time and trends. We have to be honest that MM had been losing steam since after Koi No Dance Site. AKB and MM were playing different fields although primarily catering to mostly the same market.

Remember the first ever audition was to find a solo vocalist, so that mentality stuck even when Tsunku went back on his word & made MM the group instead i.e. the 1st gen girls are "I alone should be sole representative of H!P's MM, what are these others doing alongside me"? Then as tru_harmony said, the 2nd gen & Goto Maki just made the rivalry more intensely cutthroat.

Also as tru_harmony said, MM became the Netscape Navigator of the J-idol industry. That market simply became the pie shared by newer, different players. People forget that even back then MM stole that market share from SPEED and MAX, so the whole thing's just cyclical.