From: IN%"JMORRIS@ridgetownc.uoguelph.ca" "JIM MORRIS" 1-DEC-2000 08:26:22.52
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Sorting and group sizw
Dear members:
I was asked about growing- finishing pigs together in a group of 240 in one large pen. The producer would give adequate floor space and feeder/ water space. I mentioned that there will probably be some more total aggression in the pen and that mixing would not be possible after the initial introduction. The barn would have to be operated on an all-in-all-out basis. All pigs would be cleaned out when 10-12% of the pigs are left in the barn. The pigs would also be from a single source and of the same age. If anyone has had experience with the larger groups or has any research information on the subject, I would be greatly thankful.
Best regards,
Jim
From: IN%"d.arey@ab.sac.ac.uk" 1-DEC-2000 09:10:08.83
To: IN%"JMORRIS@ridgetownc.uoguelph.ca" "JIM MORRIS", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Sorting and group sizw
Dear Jim
We have just produced a husbandry guidebook on this subject
which I could send you if you like.
Dale
> Dear members:
>
> I was asked about growing- finishing pigs together in a group of 240 in one large pen. The producer would give adequate floor space and feeder/ water space. I mentioned that there will probably be some more total aggression in the pen and that mixing would not be possible after the initial
introduction. The barn would have to be operated on an all-in-all-out basis. All pigs would be cleaned out when 10-12% of the pigs are left in the barn. The pigs would also be from a single source and of the same age. If anyone has had experience with the larger groups or has any research
information on the subject, I would be greatly thankful.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
>
>
>
Dr Dale Arey
SAC Animal Biology Division
Craibstone
Aberdeen AB21 9YA
Tel 01224 711058
Fax 01224 711292
www.sac.ac.uk
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access t
o this email by anyone else is unauthorised.
If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reli
ance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice contained in this email ar
e subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing client engagement letter.'
From: IN%"d.arey@ab.sac.ac.uk" 1-DEC-2000 09:15:38.54
To: IN%"JMORRIS@ridgetownc.uoguelph.ca" "JIM MORRIS", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Sorting and group sizw
Dear Jim
We have just produced a husbandry guidebook on this subject
which I could send you if you like.
Dale
> Dear members:
>
> I was asked about growing- finishing pigs together in a group of 240 in one large pen. The producer would give adequate floor space and feeder/ water space. I mentioned that there will probably be some more total aggression in the pen and that mixing would not be possible after the initial
introduction. The barn would have to be operated on an all-in-all-out basis. All pigs would be cleaned out when 10-12% of the pigs are left in the barn. The pigs would also be from a single source and of the same age. If anyone has had experience with the larger groups or has any research
information on the subject, I would be greatly thankful.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
>
>
>
Dr Dale Arey
SAC Animal Biology Division
Craibstone
Aberdeen AB21 9YA
Tel 01224 711058
Fax 01224 711292
www.sac.ac.uk
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access t
o this email by anyone else is unauthorised.
If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reli
ance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice contained in this email ar
e subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing client engagement letter.'
From: IN%"pierre.marsy@worldonline.fr" "Pierre Marsy" 1-DEC-2000 18:04:40.76
To: IN%"jeanpascal.guery@free.fr" "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean-Pascal_Gu=E9ry?=", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology"
CC:
Subj: RE: Contact
Dr. Bertrand L. Deputte
Station Biologique
C.N.R.S. URA 373
35380 Paimpont
deputte@univ-rennes1.fr
(si elle n'a pas changé. Sinon, essaie bertrand.deputte@univ-rennes1.fr)
________________________
Pierre MARSY
pierre.marsy@worldonline.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-Pascal Guéry"
To: "Applied Ethology"
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 1:18 AM
Subject: Contact
> Dear all,
>
> Could someone help me find out the Bertrand Deputte's e-mail (French
> primatologist) working in CNRS unit of Paimpol.
> Thanks in advance.
> Regards from Paris.
> Jean-Pascal Guery
>
> jeanpascal.guery@free.fr
From: IN%"supereeyore@hotmail.com" "Eddie Fernandez" 1-DEC-2000 20:28:15.80
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Ph.D. programs and journals
Hey all,
I've been recently looking into what the future may hold for me, aka,
where do I want to go for my Ph.D. I'll be finishing up my masters in
Behavior Analysis here at the University of North Texas in the Spring of
2002, (1 1/2 years from now), and I'm trying to get a head start on where
I'd like to go.
Overall, I'm leaning towards continuing in a BA program, although I'm
also considering animal behavior, animal science, and the like programs. My
main concern is to continue my work of experimentally manipulating variables
involved in animal training procedures and experimentally manipulating
animal behavior in general.
Also, I'm less concerned with department or program aspects and more
concerned about finding the "right" advisor. "Right" meaning one who's
flexible and encouraging enough to be thoroughly involved with my research
and applied work. I was lucky enough to get Dr. Rosales as a
mentor/advisor/friend, and I'm hoping to continue this streak of luck with
my Ph.D. advisor.
On a side note, some of my other interests/areas of current work are basic
animal research, basic human research, teaching procedures and teaching in
general, and autism therapy. My main interest, however, is the applied
research that ORCA continues to be involved with.
Anyway, any ideas/comments would be greatly appreciated. Please feel
free to forward this to other lists/professors, if you're so inclined. I'm
also not shy about going overseas, and am looking into a couple programs in
Australia/New Zealand. Thanks again,
Eddie F...
P.S. I'm also trying to update ORCA's, our animal training group here at
UNT, journal list. We're looking for any journals/magazines/etc that we
could both publish our animal training research in, and publish any writings
on animal training issues in. Any info. on such journals, (i.e., the type
of articles they generally publish, do they only publish group/statistical
designs, contact info., etc) would also be appreciated.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
From: IN%"jeanpascal.guery@free.fr" "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Pascal_Gu=E9ry?=" 2-DEC-2000 08:48:09.06
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology"
CC:
Subj: Contact : thank you
Dear all,
Thanks to all who gave me Bertrand Deputte's adress.
Regards from Paris
Jean-Pascal Guery
From: IN%"Jeroen@jeroenvanrooijen.zzn.com" "Jeroen van Rooijen" 3-DEC-2000 14:26:47.31
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Introducing myself to the network.
Dear members,
My name is Jeroen van Rooijen.
I am a biologist specialized in behaviour.
Since over 20 years I am working in the field of applied ethology:
mainly behaviour and welfare of poultry, but also of swine.
Further I am interested in the philosophical question what we are
able to know about mind in animals (=A8Do dogs have feelings?=A8)
For more information go to my website:
http://go.to/jeroenvanrooijen/
With kind regards,
Jeroen van Rooijen.
Get your Free E-mail at http://jeroenvanrooijen.zzn.com
____________________________________________________________
Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
From: IN%"madchen@adelphia.net" "madchen" 3-DEC-2000 19:42:00.01
To: IN%"Jeroen@jeroenvanrooijen.zzn.com" "Jeroen van Rooijen", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Introducing myself to the network.
Welcome to the list. I don't have any titles after my name but my dogs do.
:>))
I train and compete with performance German Shepherd dogs (tracking,
obedience,
protection, herding). I could not train for these complex tasks without
considering
the emotional states of the dog. They are very emotional, and lacking the
inhibitions of humans, might be considered to be more "honest".
Here is a question for you, tho--what are the differences and similarities
between
the behaviorist and the trainer?
Cathy Daugaard
madchen@adelphia.net
Kaos von Arbeiten Mädchen, SchI, PT, CDX, TDI
Hälle von Arbeiten Mädchen, SchII, CD (titles to be continued)
Mitch von Eiserfeld, SchI (titles to be continued)
Katja von Essenbach (titles under construction)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeroen van Rooijen
To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca
Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 8:32 PM
Subject: Introducing myself to the network.
Dear members,
My name is Jeroen van Rooijen.
I am a biologist specialized in behaviour.
Since over 20 years I am working in the field of applied ethology:
mainly behaviour and welfare of poultry, but also of swine.
Further I am interested in the philosophical question what we are
able to know about mind in animals (¨Do dogs have feelings?¨)
For more information go to my website:
http://go.to/jeroenvanrooijen/
With kind regards,
Jeroen van Rooijen.
From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 4-DEC-2000 03:26:34.58
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Introducing myself to the network.
> Here is a question for you, tho--what are the differences and similarities
between the behaviorist and the trainer?
Hi,
personally I am sick of hearing this particular question!!!!
It is usually used as a political weapon amongst those who train or treat
behavioural problems dogs to divide groups of people rather than achieve
anything terribly useful.
However, here's my take on it...
The terms 'behaviourist' and 'behaviourism' now have wide usage; they have
been adopted from the psychological sciences and then applied in a range of
medical and veterinary psychological therapies.
I don't believe that this term is very appropriate in the veterinary field
as it misleads those who have done some dog training and dealt with a few
problem dogs that they are able to treat all behavioural problems.
Behaviourist methods of behavioural modification are very powerful but do
not take into account all of the medical, welfare, owner psychology and
ethology factors involved in problem behaviour and its treatment.
This becomes very obvious in a comparison of the analysis and treatment of
cat and dog behaviour problems.
The use of these terms in human psychological treatments is much tighter,
and refers to a very specific kind of therapy.
My personal conclusion is that 'behaviourist' is a limiting term that does
little to describe the job of diagnosing and treating behavioural problems
in animals.
Behaviour modification and training share a common root as applications of
the principles of associative learning but neither fully describes the role
of the animal behaviour counselllor.
That trainers may get upset when other people with little or no experience
or competence readily give themselves the title of 'behaviourist' has
nothing to do with the real difference between people who train dogs and
those who treat their [often concurrent] medical and psychological problems.
Cheers,
Jon
From: IN%"madchen@adelphia.net" "madchen" 4-DEC-2000 05:34:38.03
To: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Introducing myself to the network.
Excuse me if I've hit a nerve. Yes, many people pass themselves as off as
behaviorists
when it is a term, in my opinion, for a veterinarian especially trained in
solving behavior problem.
Many behaviors have a deep biological basis and cannot be solved in a tit
for tat or by simple
reward/punishment.
Your statement:
"Behaviourist methods of behavioural modification are very powerful but do
not take into account all of the medical, welfare, owner psychology and
ethology factors involved in problem behaviour and its treatment."
is surprising. I would not have thought this. These are very important
issues
to skilled trainers, and the reason for joining this list.
My apologies if my question was innappropriate--it was presented in an
effort
to stimulate discussion (something there has been little of).
Cathy Daugaard
madchen@adelphia.net
Kaos von Arbeiten Mädchen, SchI, PT, CDX, TDI
Hälle von Arbeiten Mädchen, SchII, CD (titles to be continued)
Mitch von Eiserfeld, SchI (titles to be continued)
Katja von Essenbach (titles under construction)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Bowen
To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca
Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Introducing myself to the network.
> Here is a question for you, tho--what are the differences and similarities
between the behaviorist and the trainer?
Hi,
personally I am sick of hearing this particular question!!!!
It is usually used as a political weapon amongst those who train or treat
behavioural problems dogs to divide groups of people rather than achieve
anything terribly useful.
However, here's my take on it...
The terms 'behaviourist' and 'behaviourism' now have wide usage; they have
been adopted from the psychological sciences and then applied in a range of
medical and veterinary psychological therapies.
I don't believe that this term is very appropriate in the veterinary field
as it misleads those who have done some dog training and dealt with a few
problem dogs that they are able to treat all behavioural problems.
Behaviourist methods of behavioural modification are very powerful but do
not take into account all of the medical, welfare, owner psychology and
ethology factors involved in problem behaviour and its treatment.
This becomes very obvious in a comparison of the analysis and treatment of
cat and dog behaviour problems.
The use of these terms in human psychological treatments is much tighter,
and refers to a very specific kind of therapy.
My personal conclusion is that 'behaviourist' is a limiting term that does
little to describe the job of diagnosing and treating behavioural problems
in animals.
Behaviour modification and training share a common root as applications of
the principles of associative learning but neither fully describes the role
of the animal behaviour counselllor.
That trainers may get upset when other people with little or no experience
or competence readily give themselves the title of 'behaviourist' has
nothing to do with the real difference between people who train dogs and
those who treat their [often concurrent] medical and psychological problems.
Cheers,
Jon
From: IN%"JPGarner@UCDavis.Edu" "Garner, Joseph P." 4-DEC-2000 16:39:24.92
To: IN%"madchen@adelphia.net" "'madchen'", IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Introducing myself to the network.
it's all a word thing
'veterinary behaviourists' are people who help treat behaviour problems in
animals. The problem is that the word behaviourist has a very loaded history
in the behavioural sciences.
'behaviourism' and 'behaviourist' replies to an extremely empirical view of
animal and human behaviour first developed by skinner. The behaviourist
paradigm is still a central tennant of experimental psychology and also
ethology. The basic idea is that you can only MEASURE behaviour. Thus
anything inside the animal or human such as knowledge or emotion cannot be
directly measured, it must be inferred from behaviour. essentially the same
point is made by descartes when he says "cogito ergo sum".
this is not to be confused with 'Behaviourism' and 'Behaviourist' with a big
'B'. this referres to people who misunderstand behaviourism with a little
'b' to mean that things inside the animal or human such as emotion or
knowledge DO NOT EXIST, BECAUSE they cannot be measured directly. Even if an
animal or a human solves a problem that requires abstract knowledge, a
behaviourist with a big-B will deny that such knowledge exists. The logic is
obviously flawed, but behaviourism with a big 'B' is an extremely widespread
point of view, in fact it is probably the predominant stance in the
behavioural sciences. it has an awful lot to do with people not wanting to
let go of the idea that humans are magically and specially different from
other animals. Marian Dawkins' book "through our eyes only" explains in
great detail how a behaviourist with a little 'b' can demonstrate in animals
as rigorously and with as much certainty as can be demonstarted in humans,
the presence of knowledge, wants, needs, and desires.
Because the experience and motivation of the animal is central to animal
welfare and much of applied ethology, the majority of applied ethologists
are behaviourists with a little 'b', and very sophisticated ones at that. As
a result many of us have a knee-jerk reaction to anything that smacks of
behaviourism with a big 'B', because we have spent our entire careers being
told by silly pompus windbags that we aren't proper scientists because we
are measuring something that OBVIOUSLY doesn't exist. Obvious only if you
can't think in a straight line, that is. That is one reason applied
ethologists tend to be so anal about anthropromorphism and being certain
that we have measured what we say we have measured. The only way to avoid
being branded as pseudo-scientists is to do better science that the people
who tend to look down on you.
This i think is what Jon was alluding to. in that a behaviourist with a big
'B' would ignore all of the things which he mentions and which a good
veterinary behaviourist would also pay attention to.
One of the problems with such a wide audience on the list is that we don't
always mean the same thing when we use the same word. Anyway, I hope that
clears it up!
cheers
Joe
___________________________
Dr. Joseph Garner
University of California
Department of Animal Science
One Shields Avenue
Davis
CA 95616
USA
Phone: (530) 754 5291
> -----Original Message-----
> From: madchen [mailto:madchen@adelphia.net]
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 10:38 PM
> To: Jon Bowen; Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca
> Subject: Re: Introducing myself to the network.
>
>
> Excuse me if I've hit a nerve. Yes, many people pass
> themselves as off as
> behaviorists
> when it is a term, in my opinion, for a veterinarian
> especially trained in
> solving behavior problem.
> Many behaviors have a deep biological basis and cannot be
> solved in a tit
> for tat or by simple
> reward/punishment.
>
> Your statement:
> "Behaviourist methods of behavioural modification are very
> powerful but do
> not take into account all of the medical, welfare, owner
> psychology and
> ethology factors involved in problem behaviour and its treatment."
>
> is surprising. I would not have thought this. These are
> very important
> issues
> to skilled trainers, and the reason for joining this list.
>
> My apologies if my question was innappropriate--it was presented in an
> effort
> to stimulate discussion (something there has been little of).
>
>
>
> Cathy Daugaard
> madchen@adelphia.net
> Kaos von Arbeiten Mädchen, SchI, PT, CDX, TDI
> Hälle von Arbeiten Mädchen, SchII, CD (titles to be continued)
> Mitch von Eiserfeld, SchI (titles to be continued)
> Katja von Essenbach (titles under construction)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Bowen
> To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca
>
> Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 9:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Introducing myself to the network.
>
>
> > Here is a question for you, tho--what are the differences
> and similarities
> between the behaviorist and the trainer?
>
>
> Hi,
>
> personally I am sick of hearing this particular question!!!!
>
> It is usually used as a political weapon amongst those who
> train or treat
> behavioural problems dogs to divide groups of people rather
> than achieve
> anything terribly useful.
>
> However, here's my take on it...
>
> The terms 'behaviourist' and 'behaviourism' now have wide
> usage; they have
> been adopted from the psychological sciences and then applied
> in a range of
> medical and veterinary psychological therapies.
>
> I don't believe that this term is very appropriate in the
> veterinary field
> as it misleads those who have done some dog training and
> dealt with a few
> problem dogs that they are able to treat all behavioural problems.
> Behaviourist methods of behavioural modification are very
> powerful but do
> not take into account all of the medical, welfare, owner
> psychology and
> ethology factors involved in problem behaviour and its treatment.
> This becomes very obvious in a comparison of the analysis and
> treatment of
> cat and dog behaviour problems.
>
> The use of these terms in human psychological treatments is
> much tighter,
> and refers to a very specific kind of therapy.
>
> My personal conclusion is that 'behaviourist' is a limiting
> term that does
> little to describe the job of diagnosing and treating
> behavioural problems
> in animals.
>
> Behaviour modification and training share a common root as
> applications of
> the principles of associative learning but neither fully
> describes the role
> of the animal behaviour counselllor.
>
> That trainers may get upset when other people with little or
> no experience
> or competence readily give themselves the title of 'behaviourist' has
> nothing to do with the real difference between people who
> train dogs and
> those who treat their [often concurrent] medical and
> psychological problems.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 4-DEC-2000 17:08:00.63
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology"
CC:
Subj: RE: Introducing myself to the network.
thanks Joseph, that is the sort of thing I meant!
I would add that the title 'veterinary behaviourist' is in some ways
more all-encompassing because it does imply a consideration of physiology,
medicine etc.
Still misses out a lot of the other stuff, though.
Cathy is referring to the popular use of the title 'behaviourist' which is
often used deliberately to confound; chosen mainly as it has scientific
connotations.
The scientific meaning is forgotten by those who use it.
Because the title 'behaviourist' is neither professional nor validated
though experience it has become valueless.
It is also misunderstood and does nothing to draw attention to the
differences between training and the treatment of behavioural problems.
What behaviour counsellors/therapists do is so much more than apply
behaviourism that it seems a silly title to choose.
Cheers,
Jon
From: IN%"barbara.maas@btinternet.com" "Barbara Maas" 5-DEC-2000 07:30:00.96
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology"
CC:
Subj: Bear Update & Thank You!
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_7BojwzIWMSlrQKIzIeMIfA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Dear Colleagues,
Just a short note to say thank you to all those who responded to my request for letters and, later on, sign-ons on the issue of bear farming in China. My report is now complete and printed and will be presented next week at the CITES Animals Committee in Virginia.
Thanks to your support, and that of others, I was able to append a list of 126 names from experts in bear biology, applied ethology, zoo vet. medicine, animal welfare science, animal husbandry and experimental laboratory animal science from around the world.
THNK YOU all very much!
I will let you all know what happened at the meeting ...
Best wishes,
Barbara
------------------------------------------------------------
Barbara Maas Ph.D
London
E-mail: barbara.maas@btinternet.com
T/F: +44-208-245 4126
--Boundary_(ID_7BojwzIWMSlrQKIzIeMIfA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dear Colleagues,

Just a short note to say thank you to
all those who responded to my request for letters and, later on, sign-ons on the
issue of bear farming in China. My report is now complete and printed and
will be presented next week at the CITES Animals Committee in Virginia.

Thanks to your support, and that of
others, I was able to append a list of 126 names from experts in bear biology,
applied ethology, zoo vet. medicine, animal welfare science, animal husbandry
and experimental laboratory animal science from around the world.

--Boundary_(ID_7BojwzIWMSlrQKIzIeMIfA)--
From: IN%"haleyderek@hotmail.com" "Derek Haley" 7-DEC-2000 10:28:01.32
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: The history of sow stalls
A-Ears / A-Eyes,
I am looking for information about the development / history of using stalls
to house gestating sows.
1) When / where were stalls first used?
2) What was the primary justification by the industry for using sow stalls?
Individual dietary control? Although stalls change, rather than eliminate,
problems related to sow aggression - was reducing sow aggression also used
early on to help justify stalls? OR, was that point only raised later, in
response to questions about sow welfare?
I am interested in your thoughts, but would also like to find a good
reference or two that make mention of these sorts of things!
Derek Haley
Saskatoon, Canada
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
From: IN%"research@scz.org" "Emily Weiss, Ph.D." 8-DEC-2000 10:02:25.07
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: internship available
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_8kjv35RD3OAXOeyxpWeu8Q)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I am looking for an animal behavior student who is interested in enrichment. The internship will involve making enrichment, assisting keepers in implementing enrichment, and collecting data on the effectiveness of certain enrichment items. A small monthly stipend is available. Openings beginning in January. Please contact me if interested.
Emily Weiss, Ph.D
Curator of Behavior and Research
Sedgwick County Zoo
5555 Zoo Blvd
Wichita Kansas, 67212
(316) 942-2212
research@scz.org
--Boundary_(ID_8kjv35RD3OAXOeyxpWeu8Q)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

I am looking for an animal behavior student who is
interested in enrichment. The internship will involve making enrichment,
assisting keepers in implementing enrichment, and collecting data on the
effectiveness of certain enrichment items. A small monthly stipend is
available. Openings beginning in January. Please contact me if
interested.

--Boundary_(ID_8kjv35RD3OAXOeyxpWeu8Q)--
From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 8-DEC-2000 19:49:44.75
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: bitches in the same household
Hello.
Wondering please if there is/are paper(s) to the topic of bitches in dog
breeds who are resident together cycling together?
Thank you.
margory cohen
-------having this conversation with some professional trainers; asked here
not to inconvenience anyone but the range of notes here is so vast.
From: IN%"jftingley@nsac.ns.ca" 8-DEC-2000 20:37:14.45
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Stereotypies in Mink
Hello everyone,
I am an animal science student at the Nova Scotia
Agricultural College and my fourth year project concerns the
behaviour of wild-caught mink introduced to captivity. I am
documenting the behavioural effects of this process in
comparison with the stereotypic behaviour of ranched mink.
Certain enrichment devices are to be introduced to the cages
to ascertain whether stereotypic behaviour will be affected.
If anyone has information about stereotypies, environmental
influences or behaviour in mink, or knows where I could find
some, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks so much,
Jenna
From: IN%"Jeroen@jeroenvanrooijen.zzn.com" "Jeroen van Rooijen" 9-DEC-2000 08:08:38.68
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology"
CC:
Subj: RE: Re: Introducing myself to the network.

Hello to anybody
interested in the discussion on behaviorism,

Because this question seemed originally adressed in my direction I
still have the feeling that I have to say something about my position
with regard to the question &#8220;Do dogs have feelings&#8221;.

In Europe biologists discovered that it was possible to distinguish
between species on basis of behavioral measurements, in the very same
way as this is possible on bodily characteristics (bone length
etc.). It was even possible to distinguish between species that
morphologically seemed identical. From this root the biology of
behaviour (or ethology) has developed. This is the tradition I am
standing in.

Behaviorism has a completely different root. Impressed by the succes
of physics and in reaction on earlier unexact schools of psychology
behaviorists tried to shape their science after physics.

Both sciences have a lot in common, but also a lot is different. Part
of the area that is covered by ethology, but not by behaviorism is in
the US covered by behavioral ecology. A synthesis is developing since
quite some time (Hinde published in 1966 a book called &#8220;Animal
Behaviour, A synthesis of Ethology and Comparative Psychology.&#8221; ).

One of the similarities between ethology and behaviorism is the
exclusion of animal mind from science. This is no longer possible in
welfare research. This is exactly the question I have tried to solve
in my publications as:
- Rooijen, J. van (1997a) Suffering and Well-being and the Study of
Behaviour. In: Animal Consciousness and Animal Ethics. Perspectives
from the Netherlands. Animals in Philosophy and Science Volume I, pp.
114-124. Van Gorcum: Assen, The Netherlands

Differences and similarities between behaviorism and ethology I have
also described in
- Rooijen, J. van (1990c) Backgrounds of students of behaviour in
relation with their attitude toward the issue of animal well-being.
Journal of Agricultural Ethics, 2, pp. 235-240.

As a student of behaviour my main interest is in understanding
behaviour. This is a different approach from that of an animal
trainer or therapiste. Their main interest are the individual
animals.

I would add that the title 'veterinary behaviourist' is in some ways
more all-encompassing because it does imply a consideration of
physiology,
medicine etc.
Still misses out a lot of the other stuff, though.

Cathy is referring to the popular use of the title 'behaviourist'
which is
often used deliberately to confound; chosen mainly as it has
scientific
connotations.
The scientific meaning is forgotten by those who use it.

Because the title 'behaviourist' is neither professional nor validated
though experience it has become valueless.
It is also misunderstood and does nothing to draw attention to the
differences between training and the treatment of behavioural
problems.

What behaviour counsellors/therapists do is so much more than apply
behaviourism that it seems a silly title to choose.

Cheers,

Jon

---- End Original Message ----

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From: IN%"supereeyore@hotmail.com" "Eddie Fernandez" 10-DEC-2000 01:56:04.64
To: IN%"training@lists.aza.org", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"enrich@lists.aza.org"
CC:
Subj: e-mails
Hi all,
Does anyone happen to have the e-mails for Dr. Debra L . Forthman or Dr.
Jacqueline J. Ogden? Thank you very much,
Eddie F...
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 10-DEC-2000 18:53:29.81
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: describing growth
Hello all,
I have a math problem: I need to a function for determinant growth. I
have a series of weight gains over short periods (most of the periods
are 1 to 2 weeks) for hand-reared fawns, and a corresponding volume of
milk ingested. A growth constant would be useful for comparing growth
and diet in my fawns as well as with deer of other species/subspecies. I
calculated the average daily weight gain as a percent gain, but
multiplying the weight by a fixed percent gain each day gives you
indeterminant growth. Comparing rates of weight gain via growth
constants would be easier than with absolute values (average gains in
grams during eary growth) when comparing between species and subspecies.
So I am in a fix. If someone could supply me with a formula for an
idealized determinant growth curve, it would be most helpful.
I'm also considering a compromise solution: a scatter-plot graph of
percent gains vs age from which a curve can be inferred. In order to
proceed, I need to fix my average daily percent gain values. If an
animal increases its weight by 60% over 15 days, the average weight gain
is NOT 4% per day during that period. It is some value less than 4%, but
I have yet to figure out what or how to calculate it... and I have but
two days free before the submission deadline.
sincerely,
Chris Gotman
Quebec, Canada
From: IN%"Nabil.Brandl@agrsci.dk" "Nabil Brandl" 11-DEC-2000 01:57:01.82
To: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" "'chris.gotman@sympatico.ca'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: describing growth
Dear Chris Gotman
Try the Gompertz function. The formula can be found in any statistical
textbook or SAS-user giude. I hope it will solve your problem.
Best regards
Nabil Brandl
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris gotman [SMTP:chris.gotman@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: 11. december 2000 04:53
> To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca
> Subject: describing growth
>
> Hello all,
>
> I have a math problem: I need to a function for determinant growth. I
> have a series of weight gains over short periods (most of the periods
> are 1 to 2 weeks) for hand-reared fawns, and a corresponding volume of
> milk ingested. A growth constant would be useful for comparing growth
> and diet in my fawns as well as with deer of other species/subspecies. I
> calculated the average daily weight gain as a percent gain, but
> multiplying the weight by a fixed percent gain each day gives you
> indeterminant growth. Comparing rates of weight gain via growth
> constants would be easier than with absolute values (average gains in
> grams during eary growth) when comparing between species and subspecies.
>
> So I am in a fix. If someone could supply me with a formula for an
> idealized determinant growth curve, it would be most helpful.
>
> I'm also considering a compromise solution: a scatter-plot graph of
> percent gains vs age from which a curve can be inferred. In order to
> proceed, I need to fix my average daily percent gain values. If an
> animal increases its weight by 60% over 15 days, the average weight gain
> is NOT 4% per day during that period. It is some value less than 4%, but
> I have yet to figure out what or how to calculate it... and I have but
> two days free before the submission deadline.
>
> sincerely,
> Chris Gotman
> Quebec, Canada
From: IN%"dmb16@cam.ac.uk" "D. M. Broom" 11-DEC-2000 05:37:57.48
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Stereotypies in mink
To Jenna Tingley
See our paper: Nimon, A.J. and Broom, D.M. 1999. The welfare of
farmed mink (Mustela vison) in relation to housing and management: a
review. Animal Welfare, 8, 205-228. Also especially the papers of
Georgia Mason listed in the review.
Your study sounds novel. However, welfare is normally poor in
animals, except perhaps some invertebrates, brought from the wild
into captivity.
Don Broom
--
Professor D.M.Broom,
Animal Welfare and Human-Animal Interactions Group,
Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine,
University of Cambridge,
Cambridge CB3 0ES,
U.K.
Telephone:44 (0)1223 337697
Fax:44 (0)1223 337610
From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 11-DEC-2000 09:41:44.74
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: intermediate percentile solution
Hello again,
After a long and late brainstoming session with an old mathematician
friend, where he brainstormed and I limped along behind trying to bail
as fast as I could in the squalls, we solved the intermediate percent
increase problem:
Wo : initial weight
Wn : end weight
n : number of days (period)
r : rate (percent increase)
W1 = Wo + r(Wo) = Wo(1 + r)
W2 = W1 + r(W1) = [Wo(1 + r)] + r[Wo(1 + r)] = Wo(1 + r)²
...
Wn = Wo(1 + r)
Wn/Wo = (1 + r)
ln(Wn/Wo) = n{ln(1+r)}
ln(Wn/Wo) = ln(1+r)
---------
n
e = e
< --------- >
< n >
e = 1+r
< --------- >
< n >
r = ( e ) - 1
( < --------- > )
( < n > )
Example: Fawn A weighs 5 kg at 21 days and 8 kg at 39 days of age.
Wo = 5
Wn = 8
n = 18
r = ( e ) - 1
( < ------- > )
( < 18 > )
r = ( e ) - 1
r = 1.0265 - 1
r = 0.0265 or 2.65%
Testing: Wn = Wo(1 + r)
8 = 5 x (1 + 0.0264552)
8 = 5 x 1.6
8 = 8
We have a winner.
Naturally, I will have to include a clear disclaimer in the results
and discussion that the average percent increase only applies to growth
in the time frame studied (0 to 46 days) and extrapolation beyond that
time frame is assuming indeterminant growth. The outlook for a
determinant growth function is bleak: the second inflection in the graph
may not be defined by my early weight gain rates.
sincerely,
Chris Gotman
Quebec, Canada
P.S.: the above example is about average for weight gain in my fawns.
From: IN%"JPGarner@UCDavis.Edu" "=?UTF-8?B?R2FybmVyLCBKb3NlcGggUC4=?=" 11-DEC-2000 19:01:36.44
To: IN%"jftingley@nsac.ns.ca" "=?UTF-8?B?J2pmdGluZ2xleUBuc2FjLm5zLmNhJw==?=", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "=?UTF-8?B?SVNBRSAoRS1tYWlsKQ==?="
CC:
Subj: =?UTF-8?B?UkU6IFN0ZXJlb3R5cGllcyBpbiBNaW5r?=
Hi Jennifer,
you should try anything and everything written by georgia mason, her 1991
paper in animal behavior is the bible on stereotypies. also check out
Jonathan cooper and hanno wuerbel's work. I can also send you a copy of my
D.Phil. thesis if you like.
watch out, in many species stereotypies only develop in young animals, and
are only reversible in young animals. This is by no means true for all
species (blue tits and marsh tits from my own work for example), but is
certainly the case in voles, and most probably the case in primates. So
don't be surprised if your wild caught animals never stereotype, and be
certain to have the proper control (i.e. wild caught animals in barren
cages) or you won't know whether the absence of stereotypy is due to the age
at capture or the presence of your enrichments. Also bear in mind that the
absence of stereotypy in adult wild caught animals does not indicate an
absence of suffering.
You might like to check out some of georgia's recent work with jonathan
cooper on preference testing and habitat design in mink. you will find this
very useful for designing your enrichments from some ethologically sound
data. One of my huge bug bears is the tendency to 'enrich' animals by
throwing in any random piece of crap (crushed coke cans for rabbits, being
my particular favourite) without any consideration of the animal's natural
behaviour or its preferences in choice test experiments. The whole incident
with the brambell committee the chickens and the wire floors being a case in
point (hurrah for Barry!) For instance, i recently got rather annoyed with
someone who tried to sell me little plastic balls with bells inside for
mice. He was very proud of the fact that the mice spend all day pushing the
balls around the cage. The only problem is, mice should be spending all day
sleeping, when i quizzed him on this he was adamant that the mice loved the
toys because they did spend all day when the houselights were on pushing the
balls around the cage. I asked him whether he had considered the fact that
mice find ultrasound extremely aversive and that some strains will actually
drop dead if you jangle keys (or ring little bells) anywhere near them.
Perhaps, i asked, the mice hated the balls, much as he would hate having a
car alarm next to his bed that was going off all the time, and perhaps the
mice were trying to get rid of the car alarm, or at least get it as far away
from them as possible so that they could get some sleep. "Perhaps" he said,
turned his back on me, and started trying to sell the little balls to the
next person.
hope that helps
cheers
Joe
___________________________
Dr. Joseph Garner
University of California
Department of Animal Science
One Shields Avenue
Davis
CA 95616
USA
Phone: (530) 754 5291
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jennifer F Tingley [mailto:jftingley@nsac.ns.ca]
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 6:38 PM
> To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca
> Subject: Stereotypies in Mink
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am an animal science student at the Nova Scotia
> Agricultural College and my fourth year project concerns the
> behaviour of wild-caught mink introduced to captivity. I am
> documenting the behavioural effects of this process in
> comparison with the stereotypic behaviour of ranched mink.
> Certain enrichment devices are to be introduced to the cages
> to ascertain whether stereotypic behaviour will be affected.
> If anyone has information about stereotypies, environmental
> influences or behaviour in mink, or knows where I could find
> some, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
> Thanks so much,
> Jenna
>
>
From: IN%"keckert@larc.ucsf.edu" "Eckert, Katie" 13-DEC-2000 21:41:54.29
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Dogs at night
Hi,
I work at a biomedical research facility where we house dogs in a kennel
type building. We have an unusually large number of them at the moment
(about 18), and one of the people who works here late in the evenings said
that he has noticed them barking very late at night for no apparent reason.
Because of the fact that there are probably skunks, racoons, rats and
goodness knows what else lurking around up where the "doghouse" is, this is
not too surprising. However, the tone and nature of the barking sounds very
fearful when compared to the barking episodes in the middle of the day.
We've concluded that some of them might be afraid of the dark, so we are
planning to try a radio in there at night to see if that helps block out
disturbing noises and gives them a little more secure feeling. We are also
planning to set up another "night light" in there, right now there is one 60
watt bulb on at night for the entire run.
If anyone has any other suggestions or knows of some references that we
might find useful for our dogs, I'd really appreciate it.
Many thanks,
Katie Eckert
*************************************************
Katherine Eckert
Environmental Enrichment Technician
UCSF Laboratory Animal Resource Center
513 Parnassus Ave Box 0564
San Francisco, CA 94143-0564
Email: KEckert@larc.ucsf.edu
Fax: (415) 502-6107