December 6, 2018

"Mainstream publications, including BuzzFeed News, were unable to adequately corroborate the events from so long ago, and did not publish her allegations. And internet commenters assailed her character and New Age lifestyle. Her claims may have stayed buried forever, if not for the women who saw in Amet’s story a shadow of their own. 'I saw that her credibility was being questioned in a way that honestly had a lot of racist and sexist and anti-religious undertones,' Allers said. 'I kinda figured if I had any credibility to lend to that so that she’s taken more seriously, I should do that.'"

What was the New Age religion that that seems to some people to discredit Amet? We're told that after the time of the alleged rape...

Amet would never return to science (though she tried, twice, to reenroll in graduate school, with a focus on historical African astronomy). She got married, homeschooled her two kids, moved into a small one-story house on an Indian reservation in Northern California, and then got divorced. She sang in a reggae band, and fully adopted a New Age way of thinking about the universe — rooted in energy, astrology, and ancient teachings, rather than science.

In 1995, as part of what she calls her spiritual healing, she changed her name to Tchiya Amet — which means “rebirth” and “truth” in Hebrew. “I did not want to identify with Staci — I wanted her to be dead,” Amet said.

Amet "wrote a rambling blog post, as fragmented and disjointed as her memories of the incident, titled “I Survived RAPE by Neil de Grasse Tyson; The Blue Lotus Speaks!”

For me, what was most significant, was that in this new life [30 years later], long after dropping out of astrophysics graduate school, [Amet] was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets. As a scientist, I found this odd....

When does religion discredit a complainant? I don't think the answer should be when it seems flaky to people who would be deferential to a member of a mainstream, traditional religion. When a person adopts a new religion, it says something about what's been going on in that person's life, and a shift from centering in astrophysics to obviously unscientific ideas about planets and energy looks very significant, but which way is it significant? It could mean this person doesn't adhere to real-world facts, but can also raise inferences that something terrible happened to her and changed the course of her life. Whether the terrible something was Neil de Grasse Tyson is another matter.

The legal claims -- criminal and civil -- are barred by the statute of limitations.

I certainly disagree that that everything that could be a lawsuit must be a lawsuit and cannot be pursued in any other way, such as by writing and speaking in public and applying social pressure.

The vast majority of disputes that could be lawsuits do not become lawsuits but are dealt with in other ways. Perhaps you imagine a completely litigious society as a great society. If so, you have a poor imagination.

I have a big problem with the 3 accusers business, because the 2 new allegations are so different from the very old one. I don't think stupid overfamiliarity in the work place — even where it is clearly sexual harassment — is much like drugging and raping a person in a private setting. You're not establishing a pattern of behavior, only a vague idea that this is a man who doesn't respect a woman's physical boundaries. But the 2 new allegations are probably forgivable. Stop doing that, you might say, and he agrees! He admits he did those things, shows his point of view, and resolves to be less familiar. The alleged rape, however, is something that you'd put a person in prison for doing, even once, and he denies that it happened.

OK, now I read more, and it looks like just one more effort to destroy a man (whom I don’t like, BTW, but he still has rights even though I don’t like him) by some women who seem to be doing it because they can.

We all know why this woman was not taken seriously and it has very little to do with her and all about Tyson's politics and celebrity. Let's all remember how seriously the media treated Kavanaugh's accusers.

The legal claims -- criminal and civil -- are barred by the statute of limitations.

I certainly disagree that that everything that could be a lawsuit must be a lawsuit and cannot be pursued in any other way, such as by writing and speaking in public and applying social pressure.

What kind of nonsense is this? This is not "everything that could be a lawsuit." Accusing a man of rape is about the worst thing you can say about him, and, not just a crime, but a very, very serious felony. If you want to make that claim, go right to the police and prosecutor where actual evidence can be gathered. If you don't do that, then STFU, and certainly, years later STFU.

The only way to clean this mess up is to force the left to live by their own rules.

Old complaints that the victim never spoke of, should be ignored. Presumption of innocence, rule of law, evidence. Those are the standards. Not allwomenshouldbebelieved.

Until the left starts living the Bill of Rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, presumption of innocence, right to self defense...instead of giving weak lip service to the principles, they need to go down in flames under the rules they subject their enemies to.

It could mean this person doesn't adhere to real-world facts, but can also raise inferences that something terrible happened to her and changed the course of her life.

The inferences can also go in the other direction - that attraction to and immersion in flaky New Age stuff suggests a susceptibility toward looking for an explanation for one's worldly failures/personal problems in a confabulated past trauma. Often based on a currently fashionable trauma-causer.

The point being that you don't know and can't know, and that speculating one way doesn't give grounds for doing what you seem to want women to be able to do - impose social penalties years after an alleged incident, when civil or criminal penalties can't be sought.

Robert Heinlein (no friend of religion) used to say that the difference between a respectable religion and a crazy sect was that you were born into a respectable religion and stayed there for the friends and familiarity and tradition. It didn't mean that you had thought about and adopted its unscientific dogma. But if you changed religions, it meant that you accepted its crazy beliefs. And when people believe crazy supernatural things, you have a sect.

I don't see the issue. The woman says Tyson raped her. If you don't think that is credible, don't credit it. But where is the issue? That she said it? That her saying it was reported in media? That some people believe her? That because they believe her, they may be less inclined to have dealings with Tyson? Which of those things should the law prevent?

One of the occupational hazards that streetwalkers face is rape. They are vulnerable to such a crime because their testimony is so easily discredited. Something like that dynamic might be going on with flakey New Agers. They exist on the margins and their very marginality makes them vulnerable. ...... Be a conformist in as many things as possible and accept the embrace of the herd. That's not necessarily the ticket to happiness, but it does lower your chances of being raped......I'd give the same advice to alpha males. They're not in danger of being raped, but if they stick out too much (heh,heh), they're in danger of being accused of rape.

I was raped when I was 22. While it was traumatic, it did not derail my life. Like Christine Blasey Ford, this woman just wants to blame someone else for her failures. And to further obstruct any chance for personal success "...she tried, twice, to reenroll in graduate school, with a focus on historical African astronomy" She is a flake. I've known so many like her and they are self-absorbed and delusional.

I don’t like Neil deGrasse Tyson, but I did not believe Christine Blasey Ford and I do not believe Tchiya Amet. If she did not go to the police when it happened then she must not have felt that she was raped at the time. Actually her case is like the Columbia “Mattress Girl,” who thought she’d just had a bad experience with her boyfriend (anal sex is painful — who knew?) until someone convinced her that bad sex, even if consensual at the time, is rape.

Some crimes are credible more because of bulk than because of credibility. If just one or two women had come forward against Cosby, I'd be inclined to take his side of the story. Same thing with Weinsteiin. However, when dozens of unrelated women make similar complaints, you have to think there's something to the charges.......Tyson is still in the land of plausible denial. If more women come toward, his ham is cooked, or, at least, smoked. If it's just one or two women complaining about Indian handshakes, he can survive.

Shouting Thomas has a point - though he is too loud. Trial by media when the issue involved is a felony is a cancer on on our society, particularly when there is no absolutely no chance of a real trial that would have a chance of getting at some semblance of truth.

Ronan Farrow said he published that uncorroborated piece on Kavanaugh because he was hoping it would give other women the courage to come forward. That never happened. Can we accept the fact that not a lot of women had problems with Kavanaugh's behavior as a data point n favor of his innocence?

deGrasse Tyson, who is a ridiculous person, has claimed that his interactions with the other two accusers involved them misunderstanding the intent of a very special "Native American handshake" he gives to "special people." The handshake involves slipping one finger into the other person's palm while shaking hands and massaging the other person's palm with the errant finger.

None of us can know whether he is guilty of anything, but I think we can agree that this excuse is the least-self aware, nerdiest, and most cringing explanation for diddling a person -- in the ENTIRE solar system. It's also deeply anti-scientific, which calls into question deGrasse Tyson's claims of being the scientific-y, rational person in his interactions with these women.

Or, maybe, the first accuser dropped out of society and moved onto an Indian reservation because deGrasse Tyson's secret handshake really works. In any case, yuck.

I just don't know about Woody Allen. There's doubtless some kind of kink in his libido, but I would not convict him of the crime he was accused He's worked with dozens of young women over the years, but only one has come forward with a story, and that story points to creepy rather than illegal behavior. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, Due process and all that. Same with Tyson.

Big Mike said..."I don’t like Neil deGrasse Tyson, but I did not believe Christine Blasey Ford and I do not believe Tchiya Amet. If she did not go to the police when it happened then she must not have felt that she was raped at the time."

There is no evidence that Ford ever even met Kavanaugh, other than her statements, and she does not claim he raped her. Amet was a black graduate student a few years younger than Tyson, who was introduced to him by the University. Tyson has claimed they "dated" briefly. She says they hung out together, as friends, until one day he drugged and raped her.

"I don't see the issue. The woman says Tyson raped her. If you don't think that is credible, don't credit it. But where is the issue? That she said it? That her saying it was reported in media? That some people believe her? That because they believe her, they may be less inclined to have dealings with Tyson? Which of those things should the law prevent?"

The issue could be slander. Simply being accused could cause de Grasse to be blacklisted from public speaking or other events, pressured to resign his position, cause donors to stop giving to the Hayden Planetarium, etc. The accuser does not have to show any proof to do damage to de Grasse Tyson.

If I were accused of rape, you can be sure I would engage an attorney and sue the complainant!

"I do not believe Tchiya Amet. If she did not go to the police when it happened then she must not have felt that she was raped at the time."

You show your lack of awareness. Many women are raped and do not report it, for many reasons: they're ashamed or traumatized; they're fearful of being disbelieved, or being called "crazy," or being blamed for whatever may have happened; they're fearful of ruining their own lives or the lives of their families for making public accusations; they're fearful of reprisals; they're fearful of being accused of just wanting to destroy the other person's life; the person who raped them is a family member or someone they know or someone of great authority or prominence; they just want the experience to "go away" so they refuse to acknowledge it; and so on.

How so? Does he present false information about the universe?He certainly is a puffed-up blowhard, too interested by far in coming across as hip and funny and cool, but he has his educational and scientific bona fides.

He has a real PhD. However, his scientific work not been very productive or influential. He is a popularizer of science, and a celebrity, and so the media and public know his name and not those of the people doing the real scientific work.

Most celebrity scientists are like that--their media influence is all out of proportion to their scientific influence.

Exceptions: Einstein and Hawking. In the 20th and 21st centuries anyway. There are other real scientists who have achieved celebrity but not very many and not all that well-known, not so much as Neil deGrasse Tyson.

1. If you are male, you are a genetically programmed rapist.2. Being male or female is just mental3. Believe all women. Women don’t lie about rape.4. Blacks males are railroaded in our justice system5. Some males are important for the cause, so accusations against them are ignored, except if their are multiple accusers (Weinstein). Minnesota attorney general, NJ Senator, Clinton, etc.6. Kavanaugh lied and should be impeached.7. Pence rules discriminate against females.

Based on the rules, Tyson should be ok unless more accusers come forward since he has the right politics and is Black.

iowan2 said...The only way to clean this mess up is to force the left to live by their own rules.

Absolutely. Tyson will be treated reasonably fairly by all but the most committed gender-determines-guilt practitioners because he's (a) usefully left wing and (b) black. But after this everyone will use the same model and deviations will further discredit the practice.

On a separate note I'm not sure what the complainants expect to achieve. We have a legal process designed specifically to handle these complaints. You chose not to use it and now want to create an entirely new process which omits basics (starting with an investigation) and expect us to punish him anyway?

Anyone who announced that Chrissy Fraud was credibly accusing Kav-brah, and then decides that this woman, who actually knew and spent time with Tyson, is not credible, well, that person has severely politicized judgment and decision making ability.

Also, William@8:40... By the end of the week of hearings, 16000 women across the country were accusing Kav-brah of raping them. Salem Effect.

My own bias, as one who grew up in and has lived within the cultural norms of our western society, is to look askance at those who drift into "new age" lifestyles. To me it suggests a peculiar (and unreliable) view of the world and also their view of life events. She may be seeing her experience through an entirely different prism- one that makes sense only to her.

You show your lack of awareness. Many women are raped and do not report it ...

@Cookie, is there a point where you choose to live in the real world? Once upon a time police departments were skeptical of rape claims and once upon a time a good defense attorney would make the victim appear to have been "asking for it." But by the 1980s this sort of thing was very much in the rear view mirror. She could have gone to the police and received a sympathetic hearing. She didn't. If she's suffering, well, she had her chance and blew it.

I don't disbelieve Amet because she's into New Age BS (I'll let Crack do that). But after 30 years it's all he said - she said and there's no more reason to believe her than there is to disbelieve him.

I can believe she was raped and believe she didn't go to the police. That's easier for me to believe than the notion that such event must be fought in a court. That's just civility bullshit. It could be argued at the point of a gun and often is.

That said, I can also believe this is a woman, who is blaming a man for her own failings in life, and that NdGT, who I don't like, I'd innocent of rape. He molests the concept of science, but that doesn't mean he molested this woman.

Oh, and I choose C, none of the above, but B before A, except after C.

Exceptions: Einstein and Hawking. In the 20th and 21st centuries anyway. There are other real scientists who have achieved celebrity but not very many and not all that well-known, not so much as Neil deGrasse Tyson.

How many crazy, unscientific, non-factual things does an accuser need to advocate before their judgment and word is suspect? A person's belief system and their willingness to accept things we know to be untrue is pretty disqualifying in my opinion. They could be telling the truth about something, but their word is no different than the word of a known admitted liar to me. I might believe the word of someone more reliable, but I need positive proof from you.

"The only way to clean this mess up is to force the left to live by their own rules."

I wish it was that easy, but we all know those rules will change as soon as they stop working for the left. For the left there are no reliable standards other than the pursuit of power over others. Like a slipperiness of eel, it's their greatest strength.

Shouting Thomas rarely fails to live up to his self-selected handle. BUT if you look past the bombast, it turns out he's often pointing out a real problem, even if you or I would never phrase it in the hysterical way he does.

I think Tyson is an asshat and his secret handshake creepy as fuck. But this woman has major credibility issues (you believe in what she believes in, you're probably suffering from a mental illness of some sort). But I DON'T CARE one wit all the reasons womyn don't report "rapes" -- if they fail to do so within the statute of limitations, fuck them. Shouting Thomas has some great points. We don't do slander after the fact and people who give credence to such allegations in these kind of situations are not to be taken seriously.

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posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets.

"You call that religion? Really?"

They tell us Oprah is NewAge. OSHO from "Wild, Wild Country" fame was NewAge. Jim Jones preached NewAge from his San Francisco pulpit before killing 900 people.

But - after 40 years of this nonsense - do they ever tell you what NewAge is? WHere's the 60 Minutes expose? (Oprah works for them now). Where's all the documentaries on it? They don't exist. We're on our own - with the NewAge feeding on us.

WHere's Crack?

Watching you grapple with the reality I've left you, because I knew you'd have to - eventually.