Davelaw wrote:my belief system predates me- i have bought into the the belief system of my parents, community and their ancestors i may relationize on the edges to make it more palatable to me-but i'm not going to divorce myslef from the community around me- so I have accepted that which came before even though i can NOT explain all of it or even justify all of it

So you simply accept the tradition as truth even though nobody can explain the tradition rationally and logically?

And the tradition is true because ... it's the tradition??

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

Davelaw wrote:its true because it provides meaning and continuinity for family and community

but then lots of religions are true, in that sense. are you ok with that?

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

_________________"I am often told that Divine Science is a difficult religion to live, and that other forms of religious belief afford an easier way. Perhaps this is true; for in Divine Science we never hold anyone else responsible for the things that come to us; we hold ourselves responsible for meeting the experiences of the day with power and of living our own lives divinely." – Nona Brooks

DeavonReye wrote:Dave, that statement doesnt sound like the doctrine of the evangelical.

I think Dave means that Christianity isn't exclusive in claiming its the only true faith.

_________________"I am often told that Divine Science is a difficult religion to live, and that other forms of religious belief afford an easier way. Perhaps this is true; for in Divine Science we never hold anyone else responsible for the things that come to us; we hold ourselves responsible for meeting the experiences of the day with power and of living our own lives divinely." – Nona Brooks

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

you said that your religion was true because it helped your community and yourself.

every believer from every religion could make the same claim.

is his religion therefore true too?

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

yes, you think that your religion is true, just as Ahmed thinks that his religion is true.

so?

does that tell us something about the actual veracity of the religion? of course not.

both could be, and surely are, not The Truth.

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

Let's get back on topic though: so you admit that you can't logically and rationally explain important parts of your religion?

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

Let's get back on topic though: so you admit that you can't logically and rationally explain important parts of your religion?

ITS the Nature of religion that important parts must be taken on faith

but why do these important parts have to be irrational and illogical?

or isn't the 'faith argument' rather used to excuse the irrationality and illogic in a desperate attempt to keep the belief system from imploding?

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

economics and theoretical physics work in much the same- we call the unexplained parts the black box theory

neither of those claim to represent The Truth, do they?

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!

Davelaw wrote:doubtful, belief seems to just fine self-perpetuation no matter the state of science or knowledge-look at the rise of astrology and the belief in the paranormal in post-modern society

so? how does the belief in such nonsense help your cause?

it simply illustrates that a lot of people don't care about logic and rationality, they prefer fuzzy feelings and wishful thinking. Which is ok, as long as they don't claim it to be The Truth and want to apply it on other people or society.

_________________Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody AllenAfter your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!