Posted
by
Soulskill
on Saturday October 27, 2012 @12:40PM
from the somebody-call-attenborough dept.

New submitter Atticus Rex writes "Reporters and security guards at the Windows 8 launch event weren't sure how to react when they were greeted by a real, live gnu. The gnu — which, on closer inspection, was an activist in a gnu suit — had come for some early trick-or-treating. But instead of candy, she had free software for the eager journalists. The gnu and the Free Software Foundation campaigns team handed out dozens of copies of Trisquel, a fully free GNU/Linux distribution, along with press releases and stickers. Once they got over their confusion, the reporters were happy to see us and hear our message — that Windows 8 is a downgrade, not an upgrade, because it steals users' freedom, security and privacy."

Although their points are kind of redundant to techies, they do make some good ones.
Unlike the MS points about Linux and how it is the Hackers utility and is insecure due to code being open to the public...

The word has spread. The problem is people just don't care. It isn't like back in the 90's where people don't know about Linux and Open Source... They Do, they just don't care. They are willing to take the tradeoffs to get windows.

The problem when you give people a choice, they will often choose something you don't like.

When I read the headline I was expecting something involving forcing their way into the event. This, however, turns out to be the kind of positive thing we want to present the community with. Also, that is a sweet head!

It was funny in 1995 when the "protesters" were in front of CompUSA on 35th street in Manhattan. It was cute when they were outside PC Expo in 1996. Started to get kinda sad at the Windows 98 launch and went downhill after that.

Especially when they're pushing a distro nobody's ever heard of and which does a terrible job of promoting itself. I looked on both Trisquel's home page and its Wikipedia entry, and the only justification I could find for its existence was that it had Gallician support. (Why they didn't just contribute Gallician localization to an existing distro is unclear.) Other than that, it appears to be a simple Ubuntu fork.

Now that is ironic. Not just a fringe OS, but a fringe version of the OS. How fringe? The very existence of the Gallician language is controversial. It's spoken only in the northwest corner of Spain, which would be part of Portugal if borders were drawn by actual cultural boundaries. (The Portugese language originated there.) But it's unpatriotic to refer to Gallician as a dialect of Portugese, so they have to pretend have their own language, mainly distinguished by the fact that Gallicia refuses to participate in efforts to reform Portugese spelling.

The reason for promoting Trisquel is that it is one of the few Linux distributions on the FSF's approved list of completely free distributions. It's basically Ubuntu with a free kernel and without the option of installing Flash. Trisquel is one of the few distributions on the FSF's approved list which is quite user friendly. Personally, I'd rather they hand out a distribution with all the Linux firmware and drivers to provide better hardware support, but the FSF isn't about being practical, they are focused on software freedom.

With not much enthusiasm, I simply note that two decades ago I couldn't run anywhere near the phenomenal library of free and Free software that I do today. Three decades ago, I was closer to being able to, so there was a very serious period of "you must license your software and only companies can own or alter it". I don't have much enthusiasm because it's a pretty non-notable fact these days. If you're coding something new, you first look for libraries or code that does much of what you need, and then use them for free. That's not surprising to say. Two decades ago, it would be.

So the FSF pretty much won (as did the many many non-FSF coders who contributed). Maybe not in terms of global dominance, but in real terms of "I can use my system and do what I want because I have rights to the software and can alter it at whim". This state of things was not a certain outcome. Now it is simply part of the IT world we take for granted.

Amen. I use Ubuntu and am happy (on a pragmatic level) to have a set-up that's maybe 98% free software. I would sooner punch myself in the nuts than switch to Trisquel, but I'm keenly aware that were it not for RMS's single-mindedness, I would probably be using a set-up that's 98% non-free (or, more likely, doing something entirely different because the world of computers wouldn't interest me as much).

the FSF's approved list of completely free distributions. It's basically Ubuntu with a free kernel and without the option of installing Flash.

There goes my irony quota for the day.

"without the option" wasn't exactly correct. Of course you can install whatever software from whatever repository you want once it's installed, or even compile the sources-- Oh, Flash, well, no source for proprietary stuff like that, but you can still install it. Windows XP comes "without the option" of installing Flash. Last I checked you get Flash from Adobe's website after installing Windows. Some Linux distros make it easy to stay up to date by putting Adobe's Flash in their repository. However, now that Adobe will no longer release updates for Flash on Linux I can't blame some folks for not including the buggy product in their distros...

I wonder if you'll be able to add 3rd party markets to Windows 8's app store, like on most Android and Linux distributions, or if it'll actually be "without the option" like Apple's app store?

The very existence of the Gallician language is controversial. It's spoken only in the northwest corner of Spain, which would be part of Portugal if borders were drawn by actual cultural boundaries. (The Portugese language originated there.) But it's unpatriotic to refer to Gallician as a dialect of Portugese, so they have to pretend have their own language, mainly distinguished by the fact that Gallicia refuses to participate in efforts to reform Portugese spelling.

Especially when they're pushing a distro nobody's ever heard of and which does a terrible job of promoting itself. I looked on both Trisquel's home page and its Wikipedia entry, and the only justification I could find for its existence was that it had Gallician support.

This is absolutely true. Instead of trying to rig Linux and rid it of all its unliberated blobs, if the FSF just seriously worked on getting Hurd ready, and maybe forking Minix 3.0 and then using it as the microkernel for Hurd, they'd then have all the requirements of an entire GNU system. The kernel too would be GNU, as would userland, and then they could toss in GNOME 3.4 and even make everything GPL3.

I agree w/ the other statement as well - that GNU apps have poor interfaces, poor ideas and poor impl

Actually, a lot of linguists feel that there's no such thing as "language" only "dialect". Portugese and Spanish are not as different as many dialetcts that are considered to be variations on the same language.

Another way of putting it: the language/dialect distinction is a political concept, not a scientific one. Someone once said that a language is a dialect with an army.

It was funny in 1995 when the "protesters" were in front of CompUSA on 35th street in Manhattan. It was cute when they were outside PC Expo in 1996. Started to get kinda sad at the Windows 98 launch and went downhill after that.

Now they're just a sideshow attraction.

Well, at least it gave a lot of people a funny story to laugh about later that day.

...but someone in a Gnu suit? Kind of misleading, yeah?
I do have to agree with the other posters though. It does seem like trolling an event. If Microsoft came into a Gnu event it would be bashed as them crashing a party. Same kind of thing here.

If you think the majority of tech "journalists" have the slightest clue about software freedom vs the walled garden, you are sadly mistaken. And the tech consuming public is far worse off. Any effort to educate them is a GOOD thing - especially if its well communicated by professional looking young folks like this, instead of some of the rabid "kings" of open source.

They were having to stand outside on a sidewalk in front of a building - not a good spot for a laptop demo. Given the circumstances, I'm sure they accomplished what they wanted - get some attention and educate some folks. Gnu was cool, although not near as hairy as RMS.

(A better gimmick would have been to give away USB flash drives with a rock solid linux distro that boots straight into a bunch of diagnostic and recovery tools. "For use after testing Win8." Hint hint.)

No, not really. While techies will herald this as a good thing, normal computer users will go "Well that was rude!" and "What is Linux?". Case in point: when I shared this on my Facebook I had 3 comments go "I thought a Gnu was an animal?", "Did they have to crash the party? Why not just send the journos a press release with pros/cons?" and "What OS do you use?" to which I replied "I use Win 7 on my desktop, Win 7 with Ubuntu dual booting on my laptop, OSX Mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro and ICS on my phone

Now, it's quite possible that Windows 7 is not secure enough for your needs and 8 doesn't improve upon that significantly, but I'm skeptical that 8 is a step backwards in security.

They weren't claiming that Windows 8 is insecure. They said it steals users' security. They're just pointing out (in arguably over-the-top language) that it takes control of users' information away from the users. This probably isn't because of anything specific that it does, it's just because it's closed and therefore unknowable and uncontrollable.

Let me explain something: SECURITY MUST BE PROVEN. You can't just claim the product secure, we look back and then determine how secure it has been. Additionally: NEW SOFTWARE HAS NEW BUGS, and these bugs are what makes security exploits possible.

Considering that Windows8 is not just Windows7 in a different box, that it actually comes with more and newer code than Windows7 or XP, I think it's safe to say that it more likely than not that it contains more bugs than these already released and hammered on

Well... it would be sort of retarded to point out the deficiencies of iOS on a Microsoft event.
Kinda like when the soviet and the american argued about their countries.
American: "But we have freedom of speech!"
Soviet: "What is that, even?"
American: "For example , if I were to walk into the White House, shout Ronald Reagan is a filthy thieving lying fuck, nobody would do anything to me."
Soviet: "Hah! We got it even better. If I were to walk into the Kremel, and shout Ronald Reagan is a filthy thieving

"...Windows 8 is a downgrade, not an upgrade, because it steals users' freedom, security and privacy."

This may be so, but I think that statement detracts from the fact that windows is starting to make users very ignorant. Windows 7 took away the advanced search. I used to love to be able to search for files largers than 10MB very easily but now I must use third party software to do a very "Windows" function.

I sometimes mourn for the days that when you installed something, its functions went into its own directory. You could very easily find what you're looking for, and modify if possible. This constantly gets stripped down, at least for a few things.

They're fighting the Windows 8 downgrade by offering a fringe GNU-downgraded Linux distro.I'm sure all those journalists will be convinced after they have learned to manually install the required hardware drivers.

Marketing isn't about promoting the things you personally like, it's about promoting the things your potential users like.Windows and Apple users don't care about privacy, freedom, security or ownership. Either convince them of the importance of those issues before pushing Linux or promote the Linux features they do care about (i.e. "Linux is free and has the best tools for downloading the latest movies").

What distro would you suggest? Keep in mind that this is the FSF, so it must be one that is completely Free. No binary-only blobs and no licenses that would bar you from modifying, redistributing or both. This excludes Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, etc.

Because, whether you agree with their message or not, the fact is that giving away a distribution that is only mostly Free would undermine it.

Marketing isn't about promoting the things you personally like, it's about promoting the things your potential users like.Windows and Apple users don't care about privacy, freedom, security or ownership. Either convince them of the importance of those issues before pushing Linux or promote the Linux features they do care about (i.e. "Linux is free and has the best tools for downloading the latest movies").

I look at marketing more as promoting not what you think your potential users like, but simply what you have to offer.

Now to be successful, there should be significant overlap between those.

This story makes a great example, as this is a Windows 8 event and MS has the Sisyphean task of marketing TIFKAM (the interface formerly known as Metro) - certainly not what the users want (nor have been asking for).

From what little of FSF page I could get to load seems they are reusing standard talking points on the perils of commercial software without making an effort to address windows 8 specifically.

To me it would have been more useful had they actually enumerate privacy and freedom transgressions committed by Windows 8. From calling home for nn reasons, live account login, RT store lockin... must be tons of legit points which can be made about win8 rather than the same blanket statements proclaiming commercial

Certainly it is not to change opinions, or they would not be distributing a form of linux no one has ever heard of to MS loyalists. I think they would have better luck preaching tax loophole reform at a republican convention, at least there'd be press that'd listen.

I'm willing to bet that all the people who profess not to think with their dicks, at least allow their dicks to subconsciously influence them.

I really enjoyed seeing the Linux / Mac / PC adverts that Novell did, not least because they included an attractive, seemingly intelligent, stylish woman. Yes, the message was intellectually good. But I enjoyed the attractive woman too.

It has to be tastefully done, or people who are aware that they enjoy attractive

Actually, I think they are. A protest is not necessarily selling a product, it's selling the idea that there is support for the product. The product is generally being sold to whatever they are protesting against but by selling sex, it increases the appearance of support for their cause by the inclusion of morons thinking with their dicks.

Imagine if you will, 20 prudently dresses women holding a rally to support $insertcause. Now imagine 10 scantly dressed 21 year old hotties and 10 muscle bound shirtless men doing the same for the same cause. You will have a base showing for the prudent women because the cause is what is there. But you will have added women and men interested in looking at the hot bodies of the people involved so there will likely be an above base showing for the event. In the end, the people thinking with their primitive instincts lend the appearance of wider spread support increasing the power for the cause. So using sex to sell a concept is a powerful tool for a cause and I think that the sale of sex (metaphorically) is actually intended to some of not a large degree.

My thoughts exactly. What's with all of this sensational bullshit on Slashdot lately?

The owner realized the same thing Fox News did -- if you present stories in ways to whip up a fringe zealot audience, you may lose a lot of your audience, but the audience you have comes back a lot and consumes a lot of ads.

The owner realized the same thing Fox News did -- if you present stories in ways to whip up a fringe zealot audience, you may lose a lot of your audience, but the audience you have comes back a lot and consumes a lot of ads.

Ah. That would explain why I am not seeing any ads. Other people consumed them instead of just looked at them, so there are no more ads.