I just didn't think that being ''anti-Amreica'' and anti the Vietnam war were the same thing.

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30 March 20132.50pm

Ron Nasty

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fabfouremily said
I just didn't think that being ''anti-Amreica'' and anti the Vietnam war were the same thing.

For many Americans it was just that, they believed that those who were not supporting the war were not supporting the country. There are still those on the Right of American politics who believe that the liberal Left have betrayed the American Dream. It seems as if their version of the American Dream is a democracy where their version must prevail, hence movements like the Tea Party and the worst reactions to Obama winning the Presidency.

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30 March 20134.53pm

Funny Paper

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fabfouremily said
I know what views The Beatles (and particularly John) had at this time but ''anti-Americanism''? Isn't that a bit over the top? John was never anti-America, as you say - we all know he loved the place - so that can't be a reason for Elvis not liking them.

How would you feel if you were the most successful artist of the time and suddenly a band from Liverpool came along and they were bigger than you? Would you not feel resentment towards them, even just a little bit? I know I would.

People are quite capable of love-hate (and other incoherencies). After all, President Obama loves America, yet supportively attended the sermons of Rev. Wright for nearly 20 years during which the latter thundered things like "No! Not 'God bless America' -- but I say, GOD DAMN AMERICA!!!!!") (then later had to weasel out of that record that speaks louder than oily-slick damage-control words; though I may be giving Obama too much credit by implying he's incoherent, rather than consistent, in this regard).

fabfouremily said
I know what views The Beatles (and particularly John) had at this time but ''anti-Americanism''? Isn't that a bit over the top? John was never anti-America, as you say - we all know he loved the place - so that can't be a reason for Elvis not liking them.

How would you feel if you were the most successful artist of the time and suddenly a band from Liverpool came along and they were bigger than you? Would you not feel resentment towards them, even just a little bit? I know I would.

You and a few others are getting into technicalities a little too much. Perhaps Lennon wasn't anti-American in the sense that he hated the country and all of its people but he was against everything that America has to be (imperialistic). You should understand back then being against the American government was seen as anti-American because of the USSR stressing everyone out. It's not like today where America is the sole superpower of the world, back then it was "us against them." Them being the commies. Today if you're anti-government it's seen as anti-corruption but back then it was seen as being a traitor or hippy or any so called name they dubbed people that didn't support the government's policies.

So yes, essentially Lennon was considered 'anti-American' at the time. Everyone with pockets full of money is going to enjoy America and New York City especially but that doesn't mean that they love 'America' as an idea. This was essentially why Elvis wanted the Beatles out of the country, because they were using their influence and following to promote anti-war and what he and many other 'patriots' considered "weakness and hippy culture." Also the drugs must have bothered him to no end. Elvis did not even smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol, never mind marijuana and other drugs. Also his ever increasing dependence on prescription uppers and downers for his scheduling and sleep problems must have made him even more anti-drug than anyone else knowing the health effects first hand from just prescription drugs.

Again as I said before, Elvis signed into movie contracts immediately returning from the army, before anyone even knew what the Beatles were. He wanted to make a name for himself as an actor, not a singer. That was his ambition at the time. His contracts ended only in 1970, after the Beatles split up. Elvis felt no resentment toward the Beatles for their enormous success in America because the Beatles were in music and Elvis was in film. It would be the same as Leonardo DiCaprio resenting Justin Bieber for his success these past few years. By the time Elvis came back into singing, he had become the most influential thing again which is rare in itself, a singer to take a 12 year break from singing then go back up to number one again after all that has changed in the world from the time he first started singing. In 1972 he held a concert that 1.5 BILLION PEOPLE watched via satellite, a success that hasn't been repeated until this day.

I love the Beatles, and I love Elvis which is why I always resent how people compare this BAND to this SINGER in aggressive ways, always trying to elevate their favorite to the top spot in music. It's the same how people compare Michael Jackson to Elvis Presley and some people even say MJ was the best singer of all time.

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31 March 20133.05am

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America sole power? I think you are forgetting China and Russia .

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31 March 20134.48am

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ElviszePelvis said

fabfouremily said
I know what views The Beatles (and particularly John) had at this time but ''anti-Americanism''? Isn't that a bit over the top? John was never anti-America, as you say - we all know he loved the place - so that can't be a reason for Elvis not liking them.

How would you feel if you were the most successful artist of the time and suddenly a band from Liverpool came along and they were bigger than you? Would you not feel resentment towards them, even just a little bit? I know I would.

You and a few others are getting into technicalities a little too much. Perhaps Lennon wasn't anti-American in the sense that he hated the country and all of its people but he was against everything that America has to be (imperialistic). You should understand back then being against the American government was seen as anti-American because of the USSR stressing everyone out. It's not like today where America is the sole superpower of the world, back then it was "us against them." Them being the commies. Today if you're anti-government it's seen as anti-corruption but back then it was seen as being a traitor or hippy or any so called name they dubbed people that didn't support the government's policies.

So yes, essentially Lennon was considered 'anti-American' at the time. Everyone with pockets full of money is going to enjoy America and New York City especially but that doesn't mean that they love 'America' as an idea. This was essentially why Elvis wanted the Beatles out of the country, because they were using their influence and following to promote anti-war and what he and many other 'patriots' considered "weakness and hippy culture." Also the drugs must have bothered him to no end. Elvis did not even smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol, never mind marijuana and other drugs. Also his ever increasing dependence on prescription uppers and downers for his scheduling and sleep problems must have made him even more anti-drug than anyone else knowing the health effects first hand from just prescription drugs.

Again as I said before, Elvis signed into movie contracts immediately returning from the army, before anyone even knew what the Beatles were. He wanted to make a name for himself as an actor, not a singer. That was his ambition at the time. His contracts ended only in 1970, after the Beatles split up. Elvis felt no resentment toward the Beatles for their enormous success in America because the Beatles were in music and Elvis was in film. It would be the same as Leonardo DiCaprio resenting Justin Bieber for his success these past few years. By the time Elvis came back into singing, he had become the most influential thing again which is rare in itself, a singer to take a 12 year break from singing then go back up to number one again after all that has changed in the world from the time he first started singing. In 1972 he held a concert that 1.5 BILLION PEOPLE watched via satellite, a success that hasn't been repeated until this day.

I love the Beatles, and I love Elvis which is why I always resent how people compare this BAND to this SINGER in aggressive ways, always trying to elevate their favorite to the top spot in music. It's the same how people compare Michael Jackson to Elvis Presley and some people even say MJ was the best singer of all time.

You underestimate the staying power of anti-Americanism, and its ability to adapt to new circumstances.

More recently, it's not the "Commies" but the "Muslims" who are the poor victims of American "imperialism" -- according to roughly the same script that derives generally from Western shame and guilt about its own past and self.

Are you f*cking kidding me? I hope this thread gets closed or things are going to get ugly.

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

1 April 20132.17am

Ron Nasty

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Just so I am not being seen to be underhanded. I have chosen to report the above post. This is what I have said, and am saying to Long John Silver,"I disagree with some things said in the past couple of days on this thread, and have responded to some. To say close a thread or else goes against everything this forum should be about! Somebody comes up with this nonsense on one thread, how long before it's infecting every thread where somebody just wants to shut the discussion rather than argue their point of view. This cannot be allowed to stand!"

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

Your friendly suggestions are always welcome, Egroeg. The comments were heading off-topic, but only slightly. A point was raised, by the person who reanimated the thread, that what Elvis objected to was The Beatles view of America at that time. That was spun off into points being made about pro vs. anti, and conversations always diverge slightly. I have never reported a post before that was not a spam, but somebody, you, me, or anybody else, should not respond to a thread by saying, effectively, "Shut up on this or I get nasty!" That is wrong. I don't mind points of view being put, I don't mind arguing with them if I think they are wrong (myself and Mildred disagree on many things), but I would never consider posting, "I hope this thread gets closed or things are going to get ugly". There was no sign of things getting ugly, just opinions being expressed. I wouldn't want an argument I was making I would hope reasonably to come up against a post, and I hope you wouldn't too. It kinda defeats the point of discussion about things if somebody can say they're going to turn ugly unless we shut up, and that wins the day, doesn't it? George was a wonderful human being... "Are you f*cking kidding me? I hope this thread gets closed or things are going to get ugly." Yes, okay, that wouldn't happen. But you let it begin in one thread, and it can spread to others. At least I had the respect for Long John Silver to let him know what I have done in response to the type of comment I think should never happen here.

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1 April 20138.30am

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mja6758 said Just so I am not being seen to be underhanded. I have chosen to report the above post. This is what I have said, and am saying to Long John Silver,"I disagree with some things said in the past couple of days on this thread, and have responded to some. To say close a thread or else goes against everything this forum should be about! Somebody comes up with this nonsense on one thread, how long before it's infecting every thread where somebody just wants to shut the discussion rather than argue their point of view. This cannot be allowed to stand!"

Long John Silver's is a baffling and amusing reaction -- but, alas, all too common in our Western society.

ElviszePelvis said
Again as I said before, Elvis signed into movie contracts immediately returning from the army, before anyone even knew what the Beatles were. He wanted to make a name for himself as an actor, not a singer. That was his ambition at the time. His contracts ended only in 1970, after the Beatles split up. Elvis felt no resentment toward the Beatles for their enormous success in America because the Beatles were in music and Elvis was in film. It would be the same as Leonardo DiCaprio resenting Justin Bieber for his success these past few years.

I thought most of Elvis' movies were musicals, Leonardo DiCaprio does not do musicals, so that is completely different. If Elvis felt no resentment towards The Beatles, then why did he want them deported from America?

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1 April 201310.23am

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Funny Paper said

You underestimate the staying power of anti-Americanism, and its ability to adapt to new circumstances.

More recently, it's not the "Commies" but the "Muslims" who are the poor victims of American "imperialism" -- according to roughly the same script that derives generally from Western shame and guilt about its own past and self.

"It's not like today where America is the sole superpower of the world, back then it was "us against them." Them being the commies. Today if you're anti-government it's seen as anti-corruption but back then it was seen as being a traitor or hippy or any so called name they dubbed people that didn't support the government's policies."

No I don't underestimate anything. I made it clear that Lennon's so called 'anti-Americanism' was a product of the time frame he was living in. Today nobody would call Lennon anti-American but by the standards back then he was. I never said anti-Americanism doesn't have staying power, it has existed from the moment America was declared a republic until this day.

"Long live ze King!" - John Lennon upon leaving Elvis' home

1 April 201310.36am

ElviszePelvis

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unknown said

ElviszePelvis said
Again as I said before, Elvis signed into movie contracts immediately returning from the army, before anyone even knew what the Beatles were. He wanted to make a name for himself as an actor, not a singer. That was his ambition at the time. His contracts ended only in 1970, after the Beatles split up. Elvis felt no resentment toward the Beatles for their enormous success in America because the Beatles were in music and Elvis was in film. It would be the same as Leonardo DiCaprio resenting Justin Bieber for his success these past few years.

I thought most of Elvis' movies were musicals, Leonardo DiCaprio does not do musicals, so that is completely different. If Elvis felt no resentment towards The Beatles, then why did he want them deported from America?

All of Elvis' movies were musicals but that can hardly be considered making music. He merely sang songs in relation to the movies. He wasn't devoting himself to music and making hit singles despite the fact that he produced several number one records and many top ten records simply from his movie soundtracks with songs like Wooden Heart, Return to Sender, etc. But that was simply because of his musical abilities. Had he not been limited to producing songs not of his own selection for the sake of the environment of the current movie he was making he would have been chart topping through out the 60's. Unfortunately we didn't see as many number ones from him as he could have had he not enter into those movie contracts. Elvis once said, "The Beatles are taking over music while I'm stuck here making movies." That is about the closest thing we can consider resentment although it doesn't seem resentful toward the Beatles but rather at himself for being locked into those contracts. I think the most wonderful thing about Elvis was his staying power in the changing world of music. I mean the man simply produced hits in all three era's (50's, 60's and 70's). That was remarkable. I think the only resentment he had was in himself. He showed no signs of resenting the Beatles for their musical success.

Elvis wanted the Beatles deported from America because of their ideological beliefs such as anti-war and drug use. I mean Paul wanted to make a documentary about touring the US in a van doing drugs along the way. John constantly made remarks about America and war. Elvis was a 1960's and 70's patriot which meant supporting the government and the war against the commies wherever it may be. "All the way with LBJ" was a slogan Elvis was familiar with. Although I wish Elvis had never gotten drafted into the army because I loved his childish and wild behavior before going into the army, that is what happened and he took to army culture and patriotism quite a bit after that.

Personally, even though Elvis might have hated being locked into the movie contracts, I believe it helped Elvis' iconic status once he died. I also believe the fact that all of his movies were non serious and sort of comedic and hero-like helped produce a kind of 'superhero' persona of Elvis after he died. I don't think anyone wanted to see Elvis in roles like Tom Hagen from the Godfather which apparently he was supposed to have considered playing. I think we all wanted Elvis to be a superhero in film and didn't want to picture him in any other kind of scenario. Even King Creole which is his best and most serious movie, is still comedic in a sense and gives him a superhero vibe once again. Would we have more chart toppers had he spent the 60s making music? Sure. But perhaps the 'superhero' would not be one of the personalities we link to Elvis if he did. Just my two cents.

"Long live ze King!" - John Lennon upon leaving Elvis' home

1 April 201310.46am

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mja6758 I agree with you, I don't know why Long John Silver would say something like that. We're all just having a discussion here. I don't think any of us are immature enough to "get ugly" over a debate why Elvis disliked John Lennon as a person. I think we're all fans of the Beatles and Elvis here, maybe not equally but surely fans of both nonetheless. Debate is the best and fastest way of learning.

"Long live ze King!" - John Lennon upon leaving Elvis' home

1 April 201311.20am

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Yeah, me too, mja. I don't think this thread should be closed. I clearly have a different view to elviszepelvis and a few others but I am always willing to listen to others and, maybe, learn something new from them.

I think the reason LongJohnSilver reacted the way he did was because it was said that ''Muslims who are the poor victims of American imperialism". I think he is from Iran, which may (possibly) explain his reaction.

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1 April 20131.53pm

meanmistermustard

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Have never liked Elvis's films. I havent seen many the whole way thru, Sky Movies show a handful but ive never seen one the whole way thru, cant find the ability to sit and get thru them. Seem to regurgitate the same plot over and over again. And have they went down as anything other than decent with a select few which are very good - most reviews are 3 stars?

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1 April 20136.43pm

vonbontee

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Jailhouse Rock is OK.

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mja6758 said Just so I am not being seen to be underhanded. I have chosen to report the above post. This is what I have said, and am saying to Long John Silver,"I disagree with some things said in the past couple of days on this thread, and have responded to some. To say close a thread or else goes against everything this forum should be about! Somebody comes up with this nonsense on one thread, how long before it's infecting every thread where somebody just wants to shut the discussion rather than argue their point of view. This cannot be allowed to stand!"

If this forum allows bashing of any religion, nation etc... then no problem, we will play this game.

American government invades countries, exploits their oil and it's the same thing, Vietnam all over again. You are aware that since the WWII American government is always in war, and why? To bring democracy? USA is an empire, and does what every empire does, it's nothing new but don't spread this nonsense about how everyone is anti-american and how Muslims play the victims. Try reading about Palestine, but from different source than Fox News.

"I think the reason LongJohnSilver reacted the way he did was because it was said that ''Muslims who are the poor victims of American imperialism". I think he is from Iran, which may (possibly) explain his reaction."

I am not from Iran, but that's exactly why I reacted this way. I think this isn't even his first bashing of Muslims on this forum.

Funny Paper said

ElviszePelvis said
Today nobody would call Lennon anti-American

I would.

Anti-American has memorial in the center of NYC, does that seem logic to you?

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