I can't say I'm nearly as inspired buy Hillary as I am revolted by Trump .I suspect a lot of voters will see it that way and she'll sail into the white house.

I am interested in why Hillary is viewed with such loathing. She has a reasonable record overall-is pretty moderate and obviously has tremendous ambition. She represents the establishment, is part of the troubling tradition of USA dynastic politics and possibly will be the last mainstream candidate given how the US bipartisan system is quite obviously no longer fit for purpose.

Is it because she's a woomin? I suspect a great deal of it is.

I think you suspect wrong. A lying warmonger, who has no ethics and is totally driven by psychopathic ambition yet is easily bought and paid for. The presidential assumption that has been around for a long time sticks in the craw of many.

Oh and shes not easy on the eye.

It would be nice if someone could provide something concrete rather than demonising rhetoric. Its not a hard question.

So far everything anybody has been said has been based on nothing more substantive than a projection of Mrs Underwood's character from House of cards on to her. She wants to be President therefore she most by psyhocpathically ambitious- what you mean like more ambitious that anyone else that wants to be a president? Its all very well to hold career politicians in disdain. I do. But it is disingenuous to project all that disdain onto one of them.

A lying warmonger- tell me more. She was as I understand it a cautious SOS and a multilateralist that was under-pressure form republican tea party "make america great again" types do open cans of whop-ass. She also did her bosses bidding.

She's bought and paid for? Are you kidding. She is not Bernie sure. But campaign finance rules in the states are just awful- why is she worse than anyone else that uses Superpacs or has corporate affiliations?

I instinctively do not like her. Yet I'm not going to let me instincts prejudice my judgement. I know several people that have worked with her and by all accounts she is bright and diligent.

And she aint that easy on the eye. I agree. If she were would you be more supportive? Again hard to avoid the stain of misogyny.

Nah - she's a charmless phoney and people instinctively understand it and are repelled by it.

It's a very good question. Without looking it up, he had an older brother who was the heir presumptive who drank himself to death aged 43. I think there was enough of an age gap, and the rot had kicked in early enough, for the brother to say to Trump 'don't start'.

So I think he's never even touched a drop. Which is remarkable really. He navigated all the nightclubs of Manhattan doing the early deals and shagging all the chicks without drinking.

Bit was quite happy to lend his name to promote a brand of vodka (Trump Vodka - I kid you not). He even went as far as predicting that the most requested drink in Americ would soon be the T&T (Trump & tonic). It was, of course, manufactured overseas.......

Pros: her first time in office (1993 to 2003 if memory serves) was a good period for the USA. The only small problem she had to deal with was her spokesperson William Jefferson shagging interns and lying about it.

Cons: she shagged Yoko Ono, who in turn was responsible for the Beatles breaking up,. Unforgivable.

The Don

Pros: Uhmmmm. Yeah there was this one time when he. No wait that was someone else. Errr... He once gave some. Nope. Not him either. I'll get back to the bored on this.

Con: he's a right-wing egotistical racist scumbag with no morals and no conscience. If he wins it won't be the first time he has taken a black family out of their home for his own enrichment.

This is going to be an election where people decide who they don't want in office. If I was a Septic I would vote for Clinton.

But with the world wide increase in terrorism, immigrants both legal and illegal, etc. there has been quite a huge swift to the right, so people might actually vote for The Don and the GOP.

I did a Hitler tour in Munich a while back. It was a bit peculiar meeting the guide underneath the Fourth Reich sign in the main square. And then having to sort of stand there skulking while the others joined.

Interesting to see the exact table in cafes where he hung out and didn't pay his bills though.

Pros: her first time in office (1993 to 2003 if memory serves) was a good period for the USA. The only small problem she had to deal with was her spokesperson William Jefferson shagging interns and lying about it.

Cons: she shagged Yoko Ono, who in turn was responsible for the Beatles breaking up,. Unforgivable.

The Don

Pros: Uhmmmm. Yeah there was this one time when he. No wait that was someone else. Errr... He once gave some. Nope. Not him either. I'll get back to the bored on this.

Con: he's a right-wing egotistical racist scumbag with no morals and no conscience. If he wins it won't be the first time he has taken a black family out of their home for his own enrichment.

This is going to be an election where people decide who they don't want in office. If I was a Septic I would vote for Clinton.

But with the world wide increase in terrorism, immigrants both legal and illegal, etc. there has been quite a huge swift to the right, so people might actually vote for The Don and the GOP.

Pros: her first time in office (1993 to 2003 if memory serves) was a good period for the USA. The only small problem she had to deal with was her spokesperson William Jefferson shagging interns and lying about it.

Cons: she shagged Yoko Ono, who in turn was responsible for the Beatles breaking up,. Unforgivable.

The Don

Pros: Uhmmmm. Yeah there was this one time when he. No wait that was someone else. Errr... He once gave some. Nope. Not him either. I'll get back to the bored on this.

Con: he's a right-wing egotistical racist scumbag with no morals and no conscience. If he wins it won't be the first time he has taken a black family out of their home for his own enrichment.

This is going to be an election where people decide who they don't want in office. If I was a Septic I would vote for Clinton.

But with the world wide increase in terrorism, immigrants both legal and illegal, etc. there has been quite a huge swift to the right, so people might actually vote for The Don and the GOP.

My instinctive feeling right now is that Trump is gonna win, beat Hillary badly, that it could be landslide proportions.

I still don’t think people understand why Trump won this. I don’t think they understand at all the reason people support Trump. And the deeper people are entrenched in politics, and the more they are accustomed to the templates and the handbooks and the theories and the playbooks, the less they’re gonna understand it. The more they try to plug Donald Trump and his campaign and his personality into the professional politician candidate playbook that they use, the farther and farther from the truth they are going to get.

I’ve tried to help. During the course of this entire campaign, I’ve gone to great lengths to try to explain to people what it is about Trump, why he has his supporters, why they support him, and what you have to do to separate them from Trump. Basically, you can’t. That’s the bottom line. There’s nothing any professional politician can do. They’ve done everything that they knew how to beat a candidate. They threw everything they had at Trump. I mean, the negative ads that they ran against him, these #NeverTrump guys and their PACs in all these states?

In indiana alone the amount of money spent on negative ads against Trump? And it didn’t work. And in their world, negative ads always work. So they’re out there scratching their heads today. You’ve got #NeverTrump people saying, “I said I was never gonna vote for Trump, and I’m never gonna vote for Trump — and I mean it.” You’ve got some people thinking about looking for third-party candidate. Others, it’s a matter of honor, a matter of principle, to never vote for Trump. But they’re caught between that and Hillary Clinton becoming president.

We’re back to, “Well, let’s just let Hillary win so people will find out how bad it is.” I’m tired of that. We already know how bad it is. We know how bad it is with Hillary. We know how bad it is with Bill Clinton. We know how bad it is with Barack Hussein O. We know how bad it is with the American left. We don’t need any more destruction. We don’t need anymore lessons. And, by the way, leaving it to the American people to figure out hasn’t worked out well, either, has it?

Somebody’s gonna have to tell ’em how bad it is. I mean, they instinctively know things are not great. But look at the Millennials. My point is, the millennials think the country’s seen its best days. They don’t blame the Democrats for it ’cause nobody tells them. Nobody explains to them that the reason they are in great suffering and have (in their own minds) no future is because of Democrat Party left-wing policies. But nobody tells ’em that. So they are left to assume that America is flawed.

“America was flawed from its founding, and all these flaws — and all this racism, bigotry, self-hatred, all that — is coming to the fore now, and America has caught up with itself.” This is, sadly, what some of these people think. So a guy comes along and tells ’em he’ll make America great, identifies problems, and then proposes solutions; doesn’t hold back. It’s not hard to figure any of this out. Against a message like Trump’s, if your counter message is, “I’m the most conservative guy running,” that’s not going to work.

Even if you are, and even if you’re good at it, it’s not gonna make a dent. Because none of this is about ideology right now. That’s why everybody’s talking about populism having over taken conservatism. That hasn’t happened, but at this moment of time it looks like it. In this particular set of circumstances it looks like it. Any number of things that 17 people tried — and Hillary Clinton is next up, and we shall see.

I think Trump and his supporters will never be parted. But winning elections is not about getting the enthused, but persuading those who aren't committed to back you. Trump is a very well known candidate; his negatives are higher than anyone who will ever have run for President.

Trump is strongly rumored to be considering Gingrich as his VP. That would be the golden ticket for Democrats to get their voter out and I just cant conceive of any way he can turn more needed independents, women, Hispanics, blacks and more college educated white people to now vote for him. But then I couldn't conceive of a way for him to win the nomination.

"The most surreal and characteristic moment of Trump’s presidential campaign may have taken place two months ago. That week, Mitt Romney had mocked Trump’s business acumen, highlighting his many failed ventures, including Trump Steaks, in a well-regarded and highly publicized speech that articulated both the horror with which Republican elites regarded Trump and their strategy for preventing him from capturing the nomination. A few days later, having won a series of victories, Trump appeared in his Mar-a-Lago resort to insist Trump Steaks were indeed a going concern. “Do we have steaks? We have Trump steaks. He said the steak company, and we have Trump steaks. And by the way, if you want to take one, we’ll charge you about, what, 50 bucks a steak?” It was not only a blatant lie, but a lie that required no sophistication at all to see through. One did not need a grasp of economics or public policy to understand that Trump Steaks is a no-longer-extant product. There are no advertisements for these steaks. They are not available for purchase anywhere. They do not exist. Trump simply had his staff purchase a bunch of steaks at a supermarket and display them on a table, and call them “Trump Steaks.” But — and here is the most incredible detail of all, the one that reveals just how blunt the Trump con is — his campaign did not even bother to completely remove the wrappers from the steaks they purchased. The steaks still had the labels from the local butcher from which they were purchased."

There's high up people (Senators, Representatives, conservative commentators like Bill Kristol, George Will) looking for someone to do a third party run on the right where the candidate would have to know going in he is losing. Public reasoning is "Trump is no better than Hillary", but also to provide downballot coverage to Republicans who think Trump is toxic and are in tough reelections.

If it does happen, my guess is either a former governor/Senator or an existing Representative. (If he were much much younger I think George H.W. Bush would be perfect.)

There's high up people (Senators, Representatives, conservative commentators like Bill Kristol, George Will) looking for someone to do a third party run on the right where the candidate would have to know going in he is losing. Public reasoning is "Trump is no better than Hillary", but also to provide downballot coverage to Republicans who think Trump is toxic and are in tough reelections.

If it does happen, my guess is either a former governor/Senator or an existing Representative. (If he were much younger I think George H.W. Bush would be perfect.)

There's high up people (Senators, Representatives, conservative commentators like Bill Kristol, George Will) looking for someone to do a third party run on the right where the candidate would have to know going in he is losing. Public reasoning is "Trump is no better than Hillary", but also to provide downballot coverage to Republicans who think Trump is toxic and are in tough reelections.

If it does happen, my guess is either a former governor/Senator or an existing Representative. (If he were much younger I think George H.W. Bush would be perfect.)

Good story but surely the most surreal moment was him announcing that he wanted to build a giant wall along the Mexican border, and that he would get Mexico to pay for it.

What's surreal about that?

Trying too hard now

I struggle to find what people find difficult about this.

Just over a year ago I went to Sicily for two weeks to get a feel for local feeling about the influx of people across the Med. I spoke to many people and they were all terrified and said the wave coming was going to be unprecedented.

I came on here and predicted the re-imposition of border controls at passes and key land crossings across Europe. I had the Great Groucho scoffing at me.

What we got was worse. Utter chaos across Europe. The collapse of Schengen, the reinstatement of borders everywhere, vast fences built in the state of weeks, mountain passes closed, etc etc etc.

And people laugh at the notion of a border between America and Mexico!!! What is astounding is that there isn't one. Astounding. On Youtube there is a clip of a bloke crossing the Rio Grande dressed as Osama bin Ladan. In fact, he did it twice.

It is insane. And people think a policy reeking of SANITY is wrong? Here's news for you mate, they don't, and that's why Trump is where he is, right now.

This could be the most one sided election since Alf Landon ran against Roosevelt or in more modern times Walter Mondale's attempt at Ronnie the Ray Gun.

Hillary by lots.

My view too. Last time round an American republican supporter I work with was telling me Romney and Obama ended up winning by 126 in the electoral college. Great for me as I'd bet him a pound a point that it would be Obama.

Good story but surely the most surreal moment was him announcing that he wanted to build a giant wall along the Mexican border, and that he would get Mexico to pay for it.

What's surreal about that?

Trying too hard now

I struggle to find what people find difficult about this.

Just over a year ago I went to Sicily for two weeks to get a feel for local feeling about the influx of people across the Med. I spoke to many people and they were all terrified and said the wave coming was going to be unprecedented.

I came on here and predicted the re-imposition of border controls at passes and key land crossings across Europe. I had the Great Groucho scoffing at me.

What we got was worse. Utter chaos across Europe. The collapse of Schengen, the reinstatement of borders everywhere, vast fences built in the state of weeks, mountain passes closed, etc etc etc.

And people laugh at the notion of a border between America and Mexico!!! What is astounding is that there isn't one. Astounding. On Youtube there is a clip of a bloke crossing the Rio Grande dressed as Osama bin Ladan. In fact, he did it twice.

It is insane. And people think a policy reeking of SANITY is wrong? Here's news for you mate, they don't, and that's why Trump is where he is, right now.

If you don't have borders you don't have a country. End of.

The EU Commission just agreed to visa-free travel for people coming from Turkey in exchange for them taking back migrants that went to Greece. (Doesn't apply to the UK, Ireland, or Cyprus.)

Re Mexico, former President Vicente Fox and a few other Mexican officials FWIW put out an olive branch to Trump and asked him to visit yesterday.

Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Thu May 05, 2016 7:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I did a Hitler tour in Munich a while back. It was a bit peculiar meeting the guide underneath the Fourth Reich sign in the main square. And then having to sort of stand there skulking while the others joined.

Interesting to see the exact table in cafes where he hung out and didn't pay his bills though.

What do the world expect from a politically reactionary, frustrated artist and sidelined war veteran type ?

Good story but surely the most surreal moment was him announcing that he wanted to build a giant wall along the Mexican border, and that he would get Mexico to pay for it.

What's surreal about that?

Trying too hard now

I struggle to find what people find difficult about this.

Just over a year ago I went to Sicily for two weeks to get a feel for local feeling about the influx of people across the Med. I spoke to many people and they were all terrified and said the wave coming was going to be unprecedented.

I came on here and predicted the re-imposition of border controls at passes and key land crossings across Europe. I had the Great Groucho scoffing at me.

What we got was worse. Utter chaos across Europe. The collapse of Schengen, the reinstatement of borders everywhere, vast fences built in the state of weeks, mountain passes closed, etc etc etc.

And people laugh at the notion of a border between America and Mexico!!! What is astounding is that there isn't one. Astounding. On Youtube there is a clip of a bloke crossing the Rio Grande dressed as Osama bin Ladan. In fact, he did it twice.

It is insane. And people think a policy reeking of SANITY is wrong? Here's news for you mate, they don't, and that's why Trump is where he is, right now.