The Two Witnesses of the Tribulation:

Moses and Elijah

'The physical reestablishment of God's worldwide Kingdom on
earth, prophesied until John the baptist (who first heralded its
coming: Matt.11:12)'.

I don't understand how the physical reestablishment of God's
worldwide Kingdom was prophesied until John the baptist, who first
heralded its coming. How can he first herald coming of something that
has been prophesied before him? Similarly, in Matt 11:12 why does Jesus
say 'since the days of John the baptist until present time' - that seems
like a relatively short time? Finally regarding this passage (which, as
you can see, Is still don't fully understand), the interpretation of
this passage that I've got in my Bible goes as follows:

Kingdom of heaven is not closed according to the Old Law,
because it is not achieved according to the heritage, but raided
with personal effort as a response to the grace of vocation.
Alternative interpretation given is in line with the one that
you said (if I understand it correctly), according to which it's
about persecution on part of unbelievers.

But even that raises a question in my head - how can unbelievers
'raid' the Kingdom of heaven? Isn't it by definition beyond their reach?
You mentioned 'defensive nature of the struggle encompassed in God's
plan before the cross', could you please clarify, why is the nature of
the struggle defensive (I know it's a lot of question in one).

Response #1:

As to Matthew 11:12, I am using "herald" to mean "announcement of its
imminent beginning" (as heralds show up just before the king whose
arrival they are announcing), as opposed to "prophesying", which I use
to mean "predict to happen at some time in the distant future". John and
Jesus both said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"
(Matt.3:2 and 4:17 respectively), i.e., on the very cusp of becoming a
reality. This potential reality of the coming of the kingdom was
rejected by Jesus' generation, so that the imminence of its coming,
which has always been a factor since Jesus' incarnation, remains
unfulfilled and will continue to do so until Christ's second advent.

The coming of our Lord the first time began an intensification of the
Plan of God in the sense that before our Lord the family of God is much
like a straight line of descent (which the devil has always sought to
"cut off"); to large measure, we can summarize the plan and the
community of faith before the coming of the Messiah and the institution
of the Church as Satan's attempts to destroy the line of the faithful,
and God's faithful defense of that small community linearly replenished.
But at no time did the devil expend more effort and resources against
the plan of God than during our Lord's earthly ministry, for, obviously,
nothing was more important to him than thwarting the Messiah. A
complement to this intensified opposition by the evil one is the
intensified expansion of the family of God following the cross, and that
is the subtext of our Lord's meaning here (e.g., his mentioning in v.15
of Elijah which shifts the perspective to the coming of the kingdom at
the second advent which Elijah heralds). After the coming of our Lord,
His ministry, His death on behalf of the world, His resurrection,
ascension and session, and the sending of the Holy Spirit with the gifts
He provides, God "goes on the offensive", as instead of a defense of the
linear progression the community of the faithful we see the family of
God begin to expand geometrically in terms of numbers and also in terms
of the volume of revealed truth (the former of which has significance for
Satan because it means that he and his cohorts are in the process of
being replaced in God's family, one for one by the Church, and while in
the past it must have seemed as if the requisite number could never be
reached at the rate of progression before the cross, now it is very
clear that the number can be reached before the clock runs out).

As to your Bible's commentary, this is a difficult passage to
interpret because it requires an understanding of so many aspects of
prophecy and, on top of that, many get the Greek wrong here. Here is how
I would translate:

Since the days of John the baptist until this present time,
the Kingdom of God has been under violent attack, and violent
men are laying hands upon it.
Matthew 11:12

In my view, to recap, this passage is Jesus' way of drawing a
contrast between reality and the expectations of His contemporaries (who
as yet did not understand that there were going to be two
advents), making it clear with these words that instead of taking
command of the kingdom now by overwhelming force, the King (and His
kingdom) had first to endure the assault of the evil one (as well our
Lord having to suffer as our Substitute) in order to lay the groundwork
for that Kingdom to come.

Yours in the hope of the kingdom,

Bob L.

Question
#2:

Hello sir,

Did you reply to the question I had asked last week? If you have not
replied, then you can take your time sir, but if you have replied, then
I think it has not reached me again. It has happened once before. If you
have a copy of it, then please send it to me again. Sir, I am sorry if I
am getting impatient and sorry for the trouble. I have pasted the
question below. Thank you Sir

Hello Dr. Luginbill

Sir, I hope you are fine? Ichthys is a vast site and i am a
slow reader .It is going to take me a very very long time."Who
Controls our Thoughts and Emotions",in this Email response the
last question i.e question n.o 4, is exactly my situation.
Sometimes when i am praying very peacefully, I suddenly get
angry out of control. Once it was so bad that I wanted to jump
off the building. Not only while praying it happens at other
times also. Questionable thoughts which I have had never before
in my life come to my mind. I hear questionable words in my mind
when I pray. I have been trying hard to fight these bad thoughts
without much success. This has been happening even before I was
a believer. Sir, I have been suffering at the hands of the evil
one from a very long time (even before I came to Jesus), I don't
know what special interests he had in me then? I did make
mistakes, I did seek help in the wrong places. Only Jesus could
help. He is helping me a lot and that is why I don't want these
thoughts to come to my mind. I want to be a good witness but, I
end up getting angry with people without much fault of their's.
Anyways Sir, I will ask my question now. Matthew 11:7-14, why
did Jesus say that John the Baptist is the Elijah who was to
come? I do not have the Old Testament. It is not available here
in my city. After I buy it I will start studying the Bible
properly. I do not know how to thank you sir. After meeting
Jesus you will be the first one I will run to meet

Thank You

Response #2:

I have no idea why, but I did not receive the earlier email. Since, I
always try to respond within a few days at the most (unless I am out of
time and without email access), if you do not hear back within a very
few days, please do feel free write again as there has most likely been
some problem.

The issue of gaining control over one's thinking is not an easy one,
but let me encourage you to keep at it. First, as you grow in Jesus, as
you rapidly are, this will become easier (even if it never becomes
completely automatic); keep at it because as with many things, "practice
makes perfect". Secondly, please do not be overly distraught about the
fact that you cannot completely keep "bad thoughts" from coming to your
mind. Our spirits currently reside in bodies of corrupted flesh, and as
you very correctly note we are also constantly under attack from
invisible forces without. Under such circumstances, complete prevention
of such things is out of the question. But you needn't worry about it
overly as long as you are reacting to these thoughts in the correct way.
That is to say, you many not always be able to control the irruption of
such things into your consciousness, but you certainly can be consistent
in rejecting them and paying them no mind. It is important to understand
these things for what they are, puny attempts by the evil one working in
concert with your sinful flesh in order to try and trip you up. But you
are under no obligation to enjoy them, or to yield to them, or to pay
any particular attention to them. You are captain of your will, even
when the winds blow strong and seek to blow you from your intended
course; after all, you have the Holy Spirit in you to help you "both to
will and to do" (Phil.2:13; cf. Gal.5:16ff.). Thirdly, spiritual
momentum will eventually make all of this much easier, and that is true
both in the long and short view. The better you get (with the Spirit's
help) at focusing your mind and will on the Lord Jesus and what He has
set you here to do, the less such things will plague you; and when they
occasionally do, the quicker you will tend to reject and defeat them,
getting right back on the proper track. So please hang in there with
this. We all have different areas of strengths and weakness; no two of
us are exactly the same. Anger is a difficult one. Moses had a notorious
temper and it got him into serious trouble on more than one occasion.
The problem with it is that it can lead us to do impulsively things we
would never be tempted to do if we gave the matter a serious second
thought.

On John and Elijah, please see the link below, but I will give you
the issue in "a nutshell" here:

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not
taste death before they see the kingdom of God (i.e., the second
advent)." About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter,
John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. As
he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his
clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. Two men, Moses
and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus.
They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to
fulfillment at Jerusalem.
Luke 9:27-31 NIV

As this passage makes clear, Moses and Elijah are the famous "two
witnesses" predicted by Malachi to come before the glorious advent of
the Messiah (Mal.4:4-6). What Jesus' contemporaries did not understand,
however, was that there would be two advents of the Messiah, coming the
first time to save the world from sin through His death to sin on the
cross, and then coming again a second time to rule the world in glory
(cf. 1Pet.1:10-12). Moses and Elijah will be returned to life before the
second advent, during the Tribulation which precedes it (Rev.11:1-14);
they did not herald Jesus' first advent directly, but as it turns out
Moses and Elijah are the counterparts of Jesus and John. Moses is a type
of Christ (that is, he represents or typifies Christ in many of his
activities in the Law), and Elijah is a type of John. So while Moses and
Elijah did not themselves herald the first advent, there was indeed a
herald who was, typologically speaking, Elijah, namely, John the baptist.
Therefore Jesus' statement about John to the effect that "he is the
Elijah who was to come" means that Malachi's prophecy was indeed
fulfilled in effect by his type, John, during the first advent, and will
be fulfilled literally by Elijah himself prior to the second advent. One
of the "signs" that the Messiah had arrived was that His herald preceded
Him. As the New Testament gives ample testimony, John was that herald
(e.g., Matt.3:1-17); John is not Elijah in the personal sense, but he is
Elijah in the prophetic, typological sense, fulfilling the role for the
first advent that the actual Elijah will fulfill for the second advent.
You can read more about this at the following link:

Note also that as John is beheaded and Jesus crucified, their
typological counterparts are also put to death by the beast (cf.
Rev.11:7-12). Also, the statement about John that "he is Elijah" was
said by Jesus in the context of the transfiguration where Peter and John
have just seen Moses and Elijah, with the presence of these two
"witnesses" at the transfiguration symbolizing their Tribulation
ministries which herald the coming of the Messiah at second advent.

Thank you as always for all your kind words, my friend. I continue to
keep you in my prayers daily. May God continue to lead you forwards
spiritually for a good reward on that day of days.

In Jesus our Lord,

Bob L.

Question
#3:

Hello Sir,

Thank you so much for the reply. One small question, how did peter
recognize Moses and Elijah? or was he just guessing?

In Him,

Response #3:

You are certainly most welcome. All three of the accounts of the
transfiguration (Matt.17:1-8; Mk.9:2-8; Lk.9:28-36), state explicitly
that the two with whom Jesus spoke they were Moses and Elijah, and in
all three of the accounts Peter seems to know for certain who they are.
All three of the accounts state that they were talking with Jesus, and
while Peter was catching the end of the conversation, he still may have
listened to them for some time. So it is my guess that in the course of
the extended conversation it became very clear who these men were, not
from their physical appearance, but from what they actually had to say.

In Jesus our Lord,

Bob L.

Question
#4:

This is my understanding of John 3:13.

That no one has ascended to heaven, but Jesus (please see attached
file).

Do you agree?

Response #4:

I would certainly agree that Jesus is the only One to have "ascended
to heaven". Jesus is the only One to have been resurrected and thus the
only One capable of moving from earth to heaven in His physical body 
His "resurrected body" (which is for Him and will be for us quite
superior to what we are now experiencing). Therefore neither Paul's
(2Cor.12:2-5) nor John's experience (in Revelation), nor the case of
Moses and Elijah (whose bodies have preserved for their return to earth
during the Tribulation) nor the situation with deceased believers who
have not been resurrected but have been brought into the presence of our
Lord since His ascension constitute "an ascension" (i.e., rising up to
heaven in one's own body of one's own power).

In the interests of time, to avoid confusion or misunderstanding, and
to preserve my sanity, I do not commit to reading all of the materials
sent to me. I do answer specific questions and, as long as the
discussion is conducted on a reasonable basis, do respond to alternative
points of view.

What I have written about Moses and Elijah, the two witnesses who
return during the Tribulation, and also about Enoch and the issue of
transmutation can be found at the following links:

If you have a question about or even a disagreement with any of what
is contained therein, I would be happy to address it.

Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,

Bob Luginbill

Question
#5:

Hello Dr Luginbill,

A friend had this question, and I tried to find it thru the search
engine on your website, but was unable to find it, I'm sure you have it,
just that I couldn't locate it. It is regarding what Jesus said here in
Mark:

This is after the transfiguration:

Quote:

11And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must
first come? 12And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first,
and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that
he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. 13But I say unto you,
That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they
listed, as it is written of him.

Does anyone know what Jesus is talking about here? What was written
about John the baptist (the Elais Elijah to come)?

This was my answer to her:

Talking about John the Baptist, and prophetical writings that
referred to Elijah's coming, and that it happened to John just as was
written...but the language difference makes it difficult to see what
they were talking about regarding what was written...I'm thinking they
were talking about the fact that what was written was that Elias
(Elijah) would come:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming
of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children,
and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite
the earth with a curse.

I'll see if Dr Luginbill wrote on this one, since he knows Hebrew and
Greek he would know the sentence construction and grammar etc.

Response #5:

Always good to hear from you. Very simplistically put, the ministries
of John and Jesus are paralleled by those of Elijah and Moses
respectively (with Moses being a type of Christ, and Elijah being a type
of John). So it is true that Elijah (and Moses) precede the Second
Advent. They are the heralds of the second coming, and that is why both
of them appear on the Mt. of Transfiguration, since the entire vision is
a foretaste of Christ's glorious return as Peter makes clear later
(2Pet.1:16-18). It is also true that "Elijah has already come" at this
point in the gospels, because John was "the Elijah" heralding the first
advent. All this is covered in detail in
part 3A of Coming Tribulation
in section V, "The Two Witnesses". One has to read all the way to the
end of that study to get all the information on this topic, however, as
it is seeded in here and there as appropriate.

In our Lord Jesus, whose return we so eagerly anticipate,

Bob L.

Question
#6:

Hi Dr Luginbill,

Thank you for your quick response, ... I guess I wasn't very clear in
the way I formed my question. What my friend was asking (and I guess I
need clarification on also) is:

13But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done
unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Is that saying that it is written about John the Baptist that they
would mistreat him? Or is He here saying that when Elias (or Elijah) is
prophesied as coming in the future, that this is what Jesus is talking
about. The way it is worded in English, it seems to say that it was
written about Elijah that he would be mistreated, but maybe the Greek
didn't say it that way, and maybe we get the wrong understanding of what
this is saying? Is it just referring to the Malachi passage, the "Elias
is indeed come" part of the sentence, instead of the "whatsoever they
listed" part of the sentence, and only referring to:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming
of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children,
and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite
the earth with a curse

Thank you for your patience with me,

Love as in the love of the Lord Jesus,

Response #6:

This is an ancillary issue to the one addressed last time. That is to
say, what is true of the prophetic correspondence between John and
Elijah in one thing is largely true of them in all things prophetic
where they are related. John was mistreated (indeed, he was imprisoned
for over two years), then executed (beheaded) once his ministry of
heralding the first advent had been completed. Likewise, Elijah will
be killed too along with Moses, when they have completed their tribulational ministry of restoration preparing Israel for the second
advent:

And when they have completed their testimony, the beast who
is going to come up out of the Abyss at that time will make war
upon them and will defeat them and will kill them. And their
bodies will [lie] in the square of the great city which in
spiritual terms is called "Sodom" and "Egypt", where our Lord
was crucified. And for three and a half days, people from
[every] tribe and race and language and nation will gaze upon
their bodies, and they will not allow their bodies to be placed
in a tomb. And the inhabitants of the earth will rejoice over
them and be glad and send gifts to one another, on the [false]
grounds that these two prophets had tortured the inhabitants of
the earth (i.e., this is how the unbelieving world will see it).
And after the three and a half days, a living spirit from God
entered into them, and they stood up on their feet. And a great
fear fell upon those who were watching them [arise]. And they
heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here!"
And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies
watched them [do so]. And at that hour a great earthquake
occurred, and the tenth part of the city collapsed, and the
[number of] persons killed in the earthquake was seven thousand.
And the rest [of the population] became afraid and gave glory to
the God of heaven. The second woe has passed. Behold! The third
woe is coming quickly.
Revelation 11:7-14

So while the primary reference in Mark 9:13 by Jesus is of John who,
at that time, had already been killed, the reference to Elijah is made
in full cognizance on the part of our Lord that Elijah, a type of John,
also is destined to be mistreated and murdered when he is resuscitated
along with Moses during the Tribulation.

No need to apologize! I appreciate your determination to get to the
bottom of things. Please do feel free to write back about any of this.

In our dear Lord Jesus,

Bob L.

Question
#7:

Thank you, That makes it a little clearer for me...but is there a
passage or verses in the Old Testament that speaks about Elijah being
tortured and killed? Or was Jesus talking about a reference to what
would now be considered an apocryphal reference?

Response #7:

My understanding of this part of the prophecy is as follows. Ancient
Greek had almost no punctuation. Instead, it uses specific words, word
order, and other grammatical and lexical signals to cue the reader as to
the beginning and end of sentences and clauses, and to their correct
application. I understand the clause "just as it was written about him"
to apply not to the clause "and they did to him whatever
they wished to do", but rather to the clause "Elijah has
come". What we have here in Greek is a parenthesis, but since there are
no parenthetical marks in ancient Greek, this is left to editors to
figure out. This is not the first time in the Greek text of the New
Testament (or elsewhere in Greek for that matter) where I have seen this
phenomenon, that is, of a clause which because of its order is
misinterpreted or mistranslated because its proper application is
misunderstood (Paul also occasionally places clauses in an order that
has confused translators). Here is how I would prefer to render the
verse:

"But I tell to you that Elijah has actually already come 
and (by the way) they treated him as terribly as they pleased 
just as it has been written about him (i.e., he came just as the
scripture prophesies he would). Mark 9:13

Or . . .

"But I tell to you that Elijah has actually already come (and
by the way they treated him as terribly as they pleased) just as
it has been written about him (i.e., he came just as the
scripture prophesies he would). Mark 9:13

Or maybe best . . .

"But I tell to you that Elijah has actually already come just
as it has been written about him (i.e., he came just as the
scripture prophesies he would)  and (by the way) they treated
him as terribly as they pleased. Mark 9:13

The point of the parenthetical addition by our Lord is not to suggest
that there had been any prophesy to the effect that John/Elijah would
suffer, but rather that these same scribes of verse 11 who insist that
Jesus can't be the Christ "because Elijah hasn't yet come" are not only
wrong but suffering from hypocritical blindness, since as part of the
ruling establishment they have already rejected Elijah (John) and so
share in responsibility for his suffering and death.

It's a very good question on your part. Given that many of the older
grammatical commentaries recognize this potential problem (I found it
addressed in Meyer who references also Euthymius Zigabenus, Robert
Stephens, Heinsius, Clericus, Homberg, Wolf, and Bengel as supporting my
explanation here), it is surprising that the English versions don't have
the courage to make this clear through a better translation. Just goes
to show you the hazards of the English Bible.

In Jesus our Lord,

Bob L.

Question
#8:

Hi Dr. Luginbill!

Are Enoch and Elijah in their normal bodies? and how are they now in
heaven if the bible says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
of God if they are in their flesh and blood bodies? If Enoch or Elijah
was translated to a glorified body, then how can they die  I mean if
Elijah is killed during the Tribulation? Thanks!

God Bless,

Response #8:

As you no doubt know, in my view the two witnesses of the Tribulation
are Moses and Elijah (no Enoch). As an exceptional honor, Enoch was
transmuted instead of suffering physical death, but there is no
indication that his body was preserved for future service as is the case
with Moses and Elijah. Please see the following links on all of this:

As in the case of every single other departed believer, Moses and
Elijah currently reside in what I refer to as "interim bodies" (please
see the link: Our Heavenly, Pre-Resurrection, Interim State). Human
beings are dichotomous, designed and created by God always to have a
body to house the human spirit (see the link:
The Human Spirit). As
such, we are never disembodied (except possibly for the incredibly short
interval of transition from one body to the next). Even unbelievers are
in interim bodies at present, and will be resurrected on the last day
(albeit to a "resurrection of death" rather than one of life; e.g., the
"second death": Rev.20:14; 21:8). Jude 1:9 tells us that Michael and
Satan "disputed over Moses' body", and that surely means that his spirit
was no longer present in it (for he had gone to paradise and was in an
interim body after the fashion of Abraham and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31).
Moses and Elijah are not the only ones to be temporarily brought back
from the dead  in their first, earthly body, of course. We also have
the son of the widow of Zarepheth brought back in response to Elijah's
prayer, the son of the Shunammite woman brought back in response to
Elisha's prayer, the widow of Nain's son, the rich ruler's daughter, and
(the other) Lazarus all brought back by our Lord, Dorcas brought back in
response to Peter's prayers, the boy who fell out of the window in Troas
whom Paul revived, and of course the (apparently) large number of
departed believers who were restored temporarily to life following the
earthquake at Jesus' expulsion of His human spirit on the cross
(Matt.27:52). In each of these cases, we have the temporary restoration
of the human spirit to the (corrupt) earthly body, with the result that
all of these individuals eventually died physically . . . again. While
they were away from their first body, they were not "disembodied", but
had been given a temporary home, the interim body, inferior to the
eventual resurrection body but far superior to our present corrupt
shell.

The case of Moses and Elijah is identical in every respect except
one, namely, the much greater length of time between their initial
departure and temporary restoration. It is for that reason, that is, the
need for their earthly bodies to be specially and miraculously preserved
(for they would otherwise have turned to dust), that the bodies of these
two exceptional believers have been treated in this special way. But
their situation is in all its essential elements exactly the same as
that of every other departed believer. When they are martyred during the
Tribulation, it will be a case of being put to death in a regular human
body (just as with all of the other martyrs)  although in a mere three
and half days later they will be miraculously resuscitated . . . again
(Rev.11:11-12), as an undeniable proof of the power of God and of His
ratification of all they said and did. After that, they will be
immediately translated/transmuted back into the interim state (in the
manner of Enoch). Thus these two witnesses have an absolutely unique
experience as two of the most unique believers who have ever lived or
will, to men who put Jesus first in their lives to such an extraordinary
degree that they are given to glorify him with their lives and with
their deaths (not once or twice, but three times each!). But they have
not yet been, nor will they be at the end of those events "resurrected"
or "glorified" or "rewarded" (cf. Heb.11:39-40).

No one yet has a "glorified body" except for our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is the only One yet to be resurrected. There are two further phases
of the resurrection unto life (as 1st Corinthians 15:23-24 tells us);
the next one will take place at Christ's second advent return and will
comprise the Church, the Bride of Christ, all of us and all who have
believed since mankind fell until our Lord comes back (e.g.,
1Thes.4:13-17); the final phase will take place at the end of the
Millennium and will comprise the "friends of the Bride" (Ps.45:14-15;
Rev.19:9; cf. 1Cor.15:24). Not until our resurrection will we receive
our inheritance and be evaluated for our reward. So as wonderful as it
must be to be in the presence of our dear Lord now, none of these
believers of the past no matter how great have yet been resurrect, or
glorified, or rewarded.

(39) And through their faith, all of them (i.e., the great
believers cataloged in chap.11) though they became witnesses [to
the world] (lit., "were martyred"), yet they did not receive the
promise (i.e., resurrection and reward), (40) since God was
looking forward for our sakes to something better, so that they
might not be made perfect (i.e., resurrected and rewarded)
without us.
Hebrews 11:39-40

Yours in the Lord of life, our dear Savior Jesus Christ.

Bob L.

Question
#9:

Hello Dr Luginbill

I am a bit confused about who is the first born from the dead between
our LORD Jesus and Moses. At the transfiguration Elijah and Moses appear
with our LORD. I know that Elijah was taken to heaven in a chariot of
fire and never experienced physical death 2 Kings 2:11. In Jude 1:9 we
see the Archangel Michael arguing (fighting) with satan over the body of
Moses. Seeing Moses with Jesus at the transfiguration tells me he was
resurrected, but the bible says Jesus is the firstborn of the dead
Romans 8:29, 1Cor 15:20, Rev 1:5. Can you help me by clarifying this?

Thanks

Response #9:

Very good to hear from you again. You are exactly right: Jesus is the
Firstborn  "from the dead" (i.e., the first to be resurrected) and the
Firstborn "of all creation" (i.e., the Ruler of the Creation which He
created at the Father's behest). Moses and Elijah are going to be, as I
call it, "resuscitated" and brought back to life during the Tribulation
(that is what is foreshadowed at the Mount of Transfiguration), but they
are not, technically speaking, "resurrected" at that time, not, at
least, in the sense of being given the same sort of eternal body that
our Lord Jesus now has and that we (including Moses and Elijah) shall
all have at the resurrection which takes place at His second advent
return. After all, Moses and Elijah, "the two witnesses", will be slain
by the beast (then will be resuscitated again and brought back to heaven
again) during the closing days of the Tribulation's first half
(Rev.11:7-12). The unique exits from this earthly life that both Moses
and Elijah experienced (as you mention) took place for the very reason
that they were destined to be resuscitated during the Tribulation. Were
this coming back to life part of the resurrection, then 1) no special
provision for preserving their original, otherwise corruptible bodies
would have been necessary, and 2) antichrist would not be able to kill
them by any means whatsoever. Also, 1st Corinthians 15:23 tells us that
after Christ's resurrection, the next phase of the resurrection will be
of "those who are His at His coming", that is to say, you and I
and all of our brothers and sisters in the Church resurrected at the
second advent  there is no resurrection in between.

I greatly appreciate your deep interest in the Word of God and your
careful attention to its truths!

Yours in Jesus our dear Lord and Savior,

Bob L.

Question
#10:

I enjoyed this article, however I would propose to you one
consideration. At the end you said Moses work is not done and that he is
one of the two end time witnesses. I am assuming in part because he came
at the mount of transfiguration? However, the scripture is clear that
Moses died. Taking that into consideration and the scripture that states
"it is given for man to die once ." Perhaps the end time witnesses are
Elijah and Enoch as they are the only 2 men we know in scripture did not
die. Just a thought.

I did enjoy your article and found it insightful.

Peace,

Response #10:

I think the critical thing about Moses' death is the fact that his
body, like that of Elijah later, was not left on earth to decay (that is
the significance of Jude 1:9; see the link:
"The Bodies of Moses and
Elijah"). After all, Moses will not be the only one to have died and to
have been resuscitated by God. Jesus raised the dead (the widow of
Nain's son, the rich ruler's daughter, and Lazarus, most notably); and
after He rose from the dead, we find at Matthew 27:52 "The tombs broke
open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to
life" (NIV). These will have been those who had been dead for some time
but whose bodies had not yet completely decayed. Moses' body is
preserved in heaven (that is where he "is buried"), allowing for him to
be resuscitated during the Tribulation in the same mortal body he
previously inhabited (i.e., his return will not be a resurrection but a
resuscitation according to the well-established biblical pattern
referred to above; see the link:
Transmutation, Resuscitation, and
Resurrection).

Thanks for the email.

Yours in Jesus Christ,

Bob Luginbill

Question
#11:

Dear Bob,

Thank you for writing back. I value open dialogue between members of
the family of God very much. It is good to wrestle together in love and
to grow together. Having said that, I agree, many will be resuscitated
and many have been, i.e. Lazarus, those when Jesus was crucified and
others. However, the two witnesses will die and be left for dead and
resurrected and no one that I know of has been resuscitated/resurrected
twice. While Jude says Michael wrestled for the body of Moses, we have
no idea why and it is certain that Moses was dead. Hebrews 9:27 reads
"Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face
judgment". Each of us must die once, and then be judged based on whether
we are the redeemed or one that rejected Christ. This is not a
theological discussion and certainly nothing that should cause division,
I read the article you provided in the link to below. I am not sure that
the conclusion that Moses is one of the two witnesses is supported. In
Acts 3 Peter is quoting Moses and pointing to Jesus, not Moses
returning. Jesus was the one who was a prophet like Moses. Just as Moses
brought the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt, now Jesus has made a way
for us to be set free from slavery to Satan and sin. The reality is that
we really cannot draw a sure conclusion of who the 2 witnesses are, the
scripture does not reveal their names for sure. I just propose that it
seems perhaps more likely to be Enoch and Elijah as they have not died.
Again just a thought and nothing more.

Peace and Blessings in His name,

Response #11:

I appreciate your spirit. And I agree that Moses was dead, but that
is no obstacle for him being one of the two witnesses inasmuch as we
have established that resuscitation is not unprecedented. Secondly,
Elijah is most certainly also "dead"; he is not presently residing in
his earthly body (and being absent from the body is the definition of
being dead), for no one in a corrupt body can enter the third heaven.
That is why the Old Testament saints abode in the subterranean paradise
before the cross and were only transferred to the third heaven in
conjunction with Jesus' ascension (see the link:
"The transfer of
believers from the paradise to the heaven at the ascension"). So
Elijah's return will also be a resuscitation. His body is being
preserved by God for that future occasion (hence his unique exit from
this world the first time). And that is why Moses' body could not
receive a normal burial. It likewise had to be removed from earth and
from corruption precisely so that he might return for his future
ministry. The fact that Jude talks about the disposition of Moses' body
would certainly need to be explained if its preservation were not for
the purpose of his return (that is the only theological reason for the
event described at Jude 1:9). The point that "it is appointed for men to
die once" is therefore not really any argument one way or another for
this discussion. In every case of resuscitation, the person died . . .
again. That is not really two deaths, since "once to die" is clearly
speaking about mortality and the impossibility of abiding in our mortal
bodies forever (and we have to allow for the writer of Hebrews not
adding, "of course there are exceptions like Lazarus which are not
really exceptions"). I suppose you do have a point that Moses will thus
have been resuscitated twice, but then so will have Elijah, and I can
think of no scripture or theological principle which makes this an
impossibility. In any case, this is what the Bible says happens.

The link supplied dealt primarily with the issue of resuscitation.
The place to find what I have to say about the two witnesses is in
part
3A of the Coming Tribulation series: The Two Witnesses and the Ministry
of the 144,000. There I give many reasons for identifying the witnesses
as I do. Perhaps the easiest to relate concisely in an email such as
this is the example of the transfiguration. On that occasion, scripture
tells us clearly that the event is a prefiguring of the Second Advent of
our Lord (Matt.16:28; Mk.9:1; Lk.9:27), and of course the two figures
who meet with Him in that prefiguring are Moses and Elijah. Given that
very clear evidence, it would certainly need to be explained why Moses
accompanies Elijah in this precursor to our Lord's return rather than
whatever other candidate one might have in mind for the other witness.
Here is what I write about that at the link given:

5. The Transfiguration: One of the clearest proofs of the
identity of the two witnesses is their appearance with our Lord
at His transfiguration (Matt.16:28-17:13; Mk.9:1-13;
Lk.9:27-36). That event is expressly stated to have been a
prophetic foretaste of our Lord's Second Advent and the coming
of His kingdom (i.e., His parousia: 1Pet.1:16; cf.
Matt.16:28; Mk.9:1; Lk.9:27). Given that the passages which deal
with the transfiguration mention both Moses and Elijah, the
literal Moses and Elijah, in connection with this preview of
Christ's return, it is natural and necessary to connect them
with the two witnesses of Revelation chapter eleven who herald
that very return. After the event, Jesus' disciples asked Him
only about Elijah and He responded in kind. But our Lord's
response, that Elijah would come "first" (i.e., before the
Second Advent which His recent transfiguration had previewed),
gave them (and give us) no reason to suppose that both of His
famous interlocutors on the mountain would not do so. Moses'
presence on the mountain with Elijah thus serves to demonstrate
that, following our Lord's death and resurrection (also
represented in this context: cf. respectively Lk.9:31 and Jesus'
glorified, resurrection-like appearance), both will precede His
return (as the two witnesses to and heralds of that return).

As to Acts 3:22, yes, Peter is pointing to Jesus returning, but in
the preceding verse he mentions "the restoration of all things", and it
is very clear that said restoration includes the preparatory work of the
two witnesses who prepare Israel for the second advent in a parallel way
to the preparatory ministry of John the baptist during the first. That
is why our Lord also says at Matt.17:11, "Elijah is coming, and he will
restore all things" (cf. Mal.4:4-6). So the occurrence of the idea of
restoration as it relates to Moses at Acts 3:22 is no small point. It is
not, I venture to add, the only point. The insert above and the other
information provided at the main link will give you the complete
picture. When all of the biblical information is taken into account, the
identification of Moses as the other witness of the Tribulation appears,
at least in my view, to be virtually irrefutable (especially in the
absence of any other viable candidate).