I like Casey’s thinking on Bargnani’s rebounding issue and the genius of it is pretty simple, really. It’s just getting him focused on the task itself instead of smothering him with a desired (and necessary, one way or another, you’ve gotta figure) end result. I say ‘smothering’ only because for a guy like Bargnani, being told that he’s GOT TO get eight or ten rebounds every game could be way more daunting (and knowing Bargnani, maybe stifling) than what WE’D all figure it should be. So instead of getting him to gaze at the top of the mountain, telling him ‘that’s where you’ve gotta get to’, Casey gets him to look at the foot of the mountain and tells him to just focus on that first easy step, hoping the right habits finally begin to implement themselves in his own head. If it takes, it could be the beginning of good things for him. And us.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 10:55 AM

yertu damkule

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

WHY DO YOU RESPOND WITH ALL CAPS? ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?

I don't think anyone interprets get 2 rebounds and coast. I certainly didn't. There is a teaching method called 'whole-part-whole'. You introduce the concept or skill, break it down to its parts, return to focus on the entire concept.

How many people have been telling Bargnani to rebound for years and throwing arbitrary numbers like 10 rebounds, 7 feet tall, 36 minutes? A lot. Fans, media, coaches, assistant coaches, management, teammates.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "Andrea, you've got to rebound... just go get the ball.... look at how big you are." Yeah, that has been extremely successful. A new spin might make something click. It is the first time I've heard anyone directly related to the Raptor organization say, "I told him we need two (rebounds) a quarter, youíre up to eight and you can fall into a couple more. Thatís our goal with him and heís made a concentrated effort of doing that."

As for the haters, I just put a post up that spoke about him being the best player in the gym (warm and fuzzy was my comment on it) and about the 2 rebounds a quarter (simple yet genius was my comment) - and what part of the article and comment gets attacked? Nope... there is no hate for Andrea... none at all.

sorry re. the caps...too much deadspin. it's infectious. not yelling, just emphasizing.

look, i'm sorry if i'm not as enthusiastic about some report from a known raptor-fluffer based on some mystery 'source.' it would have a bit more credence if it came from a guy who didn't run from the idea of writing anything vaguely controversial or actually critical about the raptors. i take what smith writes with the same grain of salt i do when i read a comment from cesco or multipaul (btw...where'd he go?).

so, yay, andrea's been the best player in training camp. that's great. he's also been great in actual games...and even been great for stretches of games. what has it meant in the past, exactly?

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:23 AM

GarbageTime

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

WHY DO YOU RESPOND WITH ALL CAPS? ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?

I don't think anyone interprets get 2 rebounds and coast. I certainly didn't. There is a teaching method called 'whole-part-whole'. You introduce the concept or skill, break it down to its parts, return to focus on the entire concept.

How many people have been telling Bargnani to rebound for years and throwing arbitrary numbers like 10 rebounds, 7 feet tall, 36 minutes? A lot. Fans, media, coaches, assistant coaches, management, teammates.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "Andrea, you've got to rebound... just go get the ball.... look at how big you are." Yeah, that has been extremely successful. A new spin might make something click. It is the first time I've heard anyone directly related to the Raptor organization say, "I told him we need two (rebounds) a quarter, youíre up to eight and you can fall into a couple more. Thatís our goal with him and heís made a concentrated effort of doing that."

As for the haters, I just put a post up that spoke about him being the best player in the gym (warm and fuzzy was my comment on it) and about the 2 rebounds a quarter (simple yet genius was my comment) - and what part of the article and comment gets attacked? Nope... there is no hate for Andrea... none at all.

Couple things here:

1) how do you "make something click" in a guy? How many different approaches were taken in hopes of getting things to 'click' for him? If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.... well isn't the idea of trying to find a way to get Bargnani rebound and defend (yet again) insane?

2) the entire article was about Andrea. People (Yertu) responded to it regarding Andrea. How was Yertu responding to the things in the article that he didn't agree with 'hating'? How could Yertu have responded to the article without you considering it 'hating'? Would he just not have had to not respond or respond positively or by 'hoping' everything is will turn out? People clearly don't expect Andrea to amount to much of a rebounder... and Yertu's statement about people having 'lowered the bar 'in regards to Andrea's expectations is something I specifically remember you mentioning aswell.

3) I'd have alot more faith in the article if it came from ANYONE other than Doug Smith. While I think D.Smith is intelligent, knowledgeable and has resources above and beyond most of the media, he tows the company line like no other. Has BC ever done anything, of significance, that he has been critical of? BC could trade for Hedo again and Doug Smith would talk about how it should work out well for the team or atleast how BC has a bigger 'plan' and everyone should just be patient.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:32 AM

TheGloveinRapsUniform

I think one of the downside of Bargnani's so-called new found aggression is more fouls. I can see him trying to overcompensate and being too eager to chase the offensive player which could result in more fouls.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:34 AM

TheGloveinRapsUniform

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

WHY DO YOU RESPOND WITH ALL CAPS? ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?

I don't think anyone interprets get 2 rebounds and coast. I certainly didn't. There is a teaching method called 'whole-part-whole'. You introduce the concept or skill, break it down to its parts, return to focus on the entire concept.

How many people have been telling Bargnani to rebound for years and throwing arbitrary numbers like 10 rebounds, 7 feet tall, 36 minutes? A lot. Fans, media, coaches, assistant coaches, management, teammates.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "Andrea, you've got to rebound... just go get the ball.... look at how big you are." Yeah, that has been extremely successful. A new spin might make something click. It is the first time I've heard anyone directly related to the Raptor organization say, "I told him we need two (rebounds) a quarter, youíre up to eight and you can fall into a couple more. Thatís our goal with him and heís made a concentrated effort of doing that."

As for the haters, I just put a post up that spoke about him being the best player in the gym (warm and fuzzy was my comment on it) and about the 2 rebounds a quarter (simple yet genius was my comment) - and what part of the article and comment gets attacked? Nope... there is no hate for Andrea... none at all.

save your breath matt. not worth it anymore.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:38 AM

Nilanka

Bargnani not immune to trade discussions

According to TSN:

Quote:

In fact, Colangelo conceded that the Raptors big man was a person of interest in this rumour-wild offseason.

"There are a number of teams interested (in Bargnani) Ė we were actually brought into the conversations with respect to the Chris Paul and even Dwight Howard to L.A. possibilities, where Andrea was a piece that was of interest to the teams involved," he said.

"Having said that, we're going to keep him as long as he's a part of what we're doing here. I said nobody on this team is untradeable.

Nothing new here, but glad to read that Colangelo is at least, still taking calls on Bargnani.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:42 AM

Nilanka

Quote:

tbihis wrote:

I think one of the downside of Bargnani's so-called new found aggression is more fouls. I can see him trying to overcompensate and being too eager to chase the offensive player which could result in more fouls.

Before worrying about fouls, we need to worry about this new found aggression actually sticking ;)

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:45 AM

TheGloveinRapsUniform

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

Before worrying about fouls, we need to worry about this new found aggression actually sticking ;)

Nothing new here, but glad to read that Colangelo is at least, still taking calls on Bargnani.

part of the conversation with the Paul and Howard trade??? Like Paul for Bargnani straight up? Or Bargnani for Howard??? hahahaha

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:50 AM

Nilanka

Quote:

tbihis wrote:

part of the conversation with the Paul and Howard trade??? Like Paul for Bargnani straight up? Or Bargnani for Howard??? hahahaha

I'm sure the Raptors were brought in as a possible 3rd team, in the same way Houston and Scola were rumoured in the nixed Laker trade.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:57 AM

NoPropsneeded

hopefully bargnani doesn't improve and we can move on to the non bargnani era, AKA Playoffs every year era.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:58 AM

TheGloveinRapsUniform

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

I'm sure the Raptors were brought in as a possible 3rd team, in the same way Houston and Scola were rumoured in the nixed Laker trade.

Now im curious how involved the raptors were...

Could we have gotten Scola? Odom?? Picks????

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 11:59 AM

TheGloveinRapsUniform

Quote:

NoPropsneeded wrote:

hopefully bargnani doesn't improve and we can move on to the non bargnani era, AKA Playoffs every year era.

hahahaha. When Bargnani leaves, i wonder who's going to get the next "Everything" thread. hahaha

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 12:06 PM

Hello

Quote:

tbihis wrote:

part of the conversation with the Paul and Howard trade??? Like Paul for Bargnani straight up? Or Bargnani for Howard??? hahahaha

Wonder if he is waiting for Howard to be traded, and trade bargnani to the same team as part of a three team trade?
That way Bargs and Howard will be together, and whoever gets them is most likely giving up young players and draft picks we may be able to steal.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 12:26 PM

Tim W.

Quote:

tbihis wrote:

Now im curious how involved the raptors were...

Could we have gotten Scola? Odom?? Picks????

Picks would be good. Scola or Odom would have been pointless.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 12:29 PM

GarbageTime

Quote:

In fact, Colangelo conceded that the Raptors big man was a person of interest in this rumour-wild offseason.

"There are a number of teams interested (in Bargnani) Ė we were actually brought into the conversations with respect to the Chris Paul and even Dwight Howard to L.A. possibilities, where Andrea was a piece that was of interest to the teams involved," he said.

"Having said that, we're going to keep him as long as he's a part of what we're doing here. I said nobody on this team is untradeable.

this is one thing I've always wondered. Exactly what are the offers for Andrea?

If his name came up to be 'involved' in the Paul/Howard talks... was it as the key peice coming from Toronto, or trade ballist to make a deal work? (ie. was the deal (just an example here) Paul to LA, Pau to Toronto and Andrea to NOH or was it Paul to LA, Pau to Toronto, 2012 first rounder + Val + andrea to NOH sort of thing)

Every year we here BC say alot of teams have an 'interest' in Bargnani... but whats the level of that interest? If there is so many people wanting Andrea, why are there (and have been) no rumours out there?

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 01:01 PM

Soft Euro

If Casey keeps this up, I'm going to be a fan.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 01:30 PM

Nilanka

Thought this was funny:

Quote:

i've been very busy with training camp,didn't have much time to watch the news.But I've heard that Spadina station is a lot of fun..lol

'...we're going to keep him as long as he's a part of what we're doing here...'

am i reading this wrong, or does this quote not translate to: 'he'll be a part of the team as long as he's a part of the team'?? in other words...it's meaningless.

revelatory!

and let's try not to get too excited...being mentioned as possibly being a (minor) part of a blockbuster trade isn't exactly something to hang one's hat upon. i don't think anyone went apeshit crazy thinking that aminu is a future all-NBA SF because he was in the paul trade.

Fri Dec 16th, 2011, 02:59 PM

mcHAPPY

Quote:

yertu damkule wrote:

sorry re. the caps...too much deadspin. it's infectious. not yelling, just emphasizing.

look, i'm sorry if i'm not as enthusiastic about some report from a known raptor-fluffer based on some mystery 'source.' it would have a bit more credence if it came from a guy who didn't run from the idea of writing anything vaguely controversial or actually critical about the raptors. i take what smith writes with the same grain of salt i do when i read a comment from cesco or multipaul (btw...where'd he go?).

so, yay, andrea's been the best player in training camp. that's great. he's also been great in actual games...and even been great for stretches of games. what has it meant in the past, exactly?

To be honest I agree with everything you wrote here. I most definitely take anything Doug Smith says with a grain of salt, same with coaches. However when his teammates are impressed, that is a good thing. A few of them essentially threw him under the bus at the exit interviews in April - rightfully so.

To answer your question, it hasn't gotten us very far but that can't be blamed all on one player - which at times I think fans unfairly do. He certainly shoulders some of the blame - and probably more than most given his role.

The thing to remember is a guy like Nene with a OppPER of 18 and an average rebound rate of 7.6 per game with one block and one steal is lauded as a terrific defender and just signed a 5yr/$64M contract. I think with consistent effort and focus Andrea, statistically, could offer the same output.

Every year the sliver of hope for Bargnani - at least for me - gets smaller and smaller. Yet it is still there. As long as Bargnani is a Raptor, I'm rooting for him because, whether he stays long term of not, it is in the best interests of the Raptors. I really hope he shocks us all. If he can do defensively what I wrote above we have a franchise player and possibly another one coming.