The kindness of strangers

I'm from the UK but I'm on vacation in LA at the moment.
Obviously I am unable to shoot handguns where I live, so I was pretty eager to do some shooting while I was here!

For ethical reasons, the ranges in CA have a 'buddy rule', whereby you can't go alone and hire a gun in case you intend to commit suicide.
While this is a sensible rule, it put me in a tight spot because the friend that I am on vacation with isn't particularly interested in shooting.

When he read a post by me on this forum about this dilemma, a very nice chap called Michael took pity on me, and he took me shooting today :)

He drove a long way to pick me up from my hotel, took me to Angeles outdoor range and let me shoot up all his ammo.
He wouldn't accept anything from me in return except the satisfaction of enabling me to shoot for the first time in around 14 years.
Good to know there's still some nice folk around.

I had a great day, thanks Michael :D

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ThrottleJockey

March 1, 2009, 01:47 AM

Now, when you go back to the UK, DEMAND that they give your guns back!!! And remember that we support you on this side of the pond.

I'm really glad you had a good time.

wrc376

March 1, 2009, 01:48 AM

good people rock!

azhunter122

March 1, 2009, 01:50 AM

If that was in LA just imagine how nice the rest of the country is! lol

Gamera

March 1, 2009, 02:12 AM

Come back and see us!

jamesbeat

March 1, 2009, 02:29 AM

Well all being well I'll be moving to Ohio soon, so hopefully today was a taste of things to come :D

Throttlejockey, there is a campaign in the UK demanding an end to the ban because it is demonstrably useless, but if you lived there, you'd understand that there is no hope whatsoever. It would be political suicide for a politician to even suggest it.

As Michael rightly pointed out today, there were well over 100 people at the range today, and not one of them was going to go home and kill someone.
Unfortunately, the idea that guns and violence/criminality being inextricably linked is the prevalent one in the UK.

ThrottleJockey

March 1, 2009, 02:41 AM

I am aware of the campaign, I was just trying to get your gander up so to speak. Sort of a motivational thing:)

jamesbeat

March 1, 2009, 03:07 AM

Nah, I'll just move to the States instead, not only do you already have handguns, you also have IHOP :D

Kind of Blued

March 1, 2009, 03:19 AM

That brought a smile to my face jamesbeat. I'm glad you got to have that eperience. We can't wait to have you as a fellow American who understands part of what the country is about.

If you ever make it to Colorado, you can expect the same treatment.

Sunray

March 1, 2009, 04:12 AM

jamesbeat, most North American shooters are just like that. It's not 'pity'. Helping another shooter is a normal thing.
"...For ethical reasons..." Nope. Silly CA laws.
"...I'll just move to the States instead..." Don't opt for CA. Their laws are more daft than Canadian laws. Vermont would be a good place if you like snow. Look into the State gun laws. Our American cousins get to comply with U.S. Federal, State and sometimes municipal laws. Florida is ok, except for the hurricanes. Georgia, North Carolina and that general area is good too. Ohio will do nicely. Here's synopsis of Ohio laws. http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/OHSL.pdf
There's a shop in Las Vagas that'll rent you an SMG with no 'buddy' requirement. Cheap, it ain't though.

coloradokevin

March 1, 2009, 04:33 AM

Well all being well I'll be moving to Ohio soon, so hopefully today was a taste of things to come

No offense, but why do all of the foreigners seem to move to Ohio? I'm originally from Ohio, and I lived there for about 25 years. I guess I just honestly never understood the draw to the state! Still, by the time I finished college I had known people in that state from 22 different countries!

Do yourself a favor, move somewhere exciting! Try: Colorado, or Oregon, or Alaska, or Vermont, or Hawaii (okay, HI is too anti-gun, but they are still better than the UK). Ohio has jobs, a great lake, great food, and even a fairly decent gun culture, but the outdoor scene just never quite did it for me!

Anyway to bring this back to topic, I'm glad you enjoyed shooting, and it is nice to hear about someone in the shooting community reaching out to another!

jamesbeat

March 1, 2009, 04:38 AM

I meant 'ethical' reasons as opposed to legal reasons, I believe it's not actual law, rather just the done thing in CA ranges.
I suppose it does have some merit, if I owned a range I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want someone to use it to commit suicide there. CA is hard enough on firearms owners already without having something like that in the media!

It's definitely Ohio, I don't think my soon to be wife would appreciate it if I moved thousands of miles away from her :D

I have heard of the full auto ranges in Vegas, and I intend to make a pilgrimage there one day.

It seems that I'm pretty lucky to be moving to Ohio, the gun laws aren't too restrictive. I think I'll be doing my CCW application too. I don't know how much I'll actually carry, but it'll be nice to have and Ohio seems to have reciprocity agreements with a decent number of other states.

Highland Ranger

March 1, 2009, 06:53 AM

PA has ranges that rent full auto guns as well in case you don't have time to go to Nevada (vegas) you can go to the state next door.

Steve N

March 1, 2009, 07:06 AM

Where in Ohio are you moving to? Members can let you know the close ranges.

D-Day

March 1, 2009, 07:09 AM

Well all being well I'll be moving to Ohio soon, so hopefully today was a taste of things to come

Hey hey, I welcome you to Ohio. When you do move to Ohio, you should join OFCC (Ohioans For Concealed Carry). One of the best groups fighting for our rights here in Ohio. The forums are an excellent source for laws and info regarding Ohio, as well.

What part of Ohio will you be moving to?

amd6547

March 1, 2009, 08:34 AM

Ohio is a great state, and we will be happy to have you.

akolleth

March 1, 2009, 10:06 AM

Jamesbeat: What part of Ohio are you moving to?

There are undoubtedly some members from our wonderful state that would gladly hook you up with some range time when you get here--

If you are anywhere near the Akron or Canton area I can let you have some fun with a few goodies of mine at the range--

Duke of Doubt

March 1, 2009, 10:18 AM

The trouble with England isn't so much that they ban guns once in awhile. The trouble with England is that they physically DESTROY their guns, and have to replace them with decent American stock, which they then destroy yet AGAIN a few decades later. My family loaned some extra guns to England in 1940, years after England banned guns for the second of three tries at tyranny. We never did get them back; England destroyed them a decade ago. We're not doing this again. If England wants to break their guns and become a nation of sissified ball-gagged rubbermaids, that's their business. I'm tired of trying to help them.

fd62

March 1, 2009, 10:24 AM

Duke I had just read last night where NRA members sent their privately owned guns to england during WWII, I was wondering if and how they were returned..guess that gives me a little insight in the matter

Duke of Doubt

March 1, 2009, 10:30 AM

fd62: "Duke I had just read last night where NRA members sent their privately owned guns to england during WWII, I was wondering if and how they were returned..guess that gives me a little insight in the matter"

The NRA effort was part of it, to supply the British Home Guard. Some Americans also did their own part, thinking England had learned its lesson and wouldn't do something so stupidly vicious and irresponsible as to break its own guns again. But they did. Next time somebody from the Continent decides to take on the Brits, I say have at it. My whole state is populated with dispossessed French-Canadians and Irish, who love to see the Brit Brats take a beating.

chuckusaret

March 1, 2009, 10:50 AM

Florida is ok, except for the hurricanes
Hey, some of the coastal cities skyline changes every few years. Our buildings are continually upgraded to the latest architectural standards and looks and the other 49 states help us pay for it thru federal assistance grants.

SaxonPig

March 1, 2009, 11:13 AM

I have a standing invitation for any of our friends who live in other countries to go shooting with me if visiting or passing through Arkansas. I don't have any machine guns but I have most other popular gun types and you are welcome to try anything I have on hand.

SciFiJim

March 1, 2009, 12:50 PM

"It would be political suicide for a politician to even suggest it."

Maybe its time some politicians did that there and here. You know, that "Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor" thing. Unfortunately its not enough for us to just say that we want more freedoms. We need to let our elected "Ofishills" know that we will back them (with time and money) if they will stand up for what is right, even against their own party. :cuss: RINOs

OK, this THR member is technically a South African who now lives and works in the UK. He visited my town a couple of years ago, and we had a great time both shooting and visiting.

I'll let him identify himself if he wants to. ;)

statelineblues

March 1, 2009, 01:53 PM

Posted by jamesbeat:
I think I'll be doing my CCW application too. I don't know how much I'll actually carry, but it'll be nice to have and Ohio seems to have reciprocity agreements with a decent number of other states.

Be sure to check on the laws governing firearms ownership by resident aliens - some states have very restrictive regulations.

But Welcome to America!

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

March 1, 2009, 02:10 PM

Awesome! :D :D

moooose102

March 1, 2009, 03:10 PM

if you are ever in west michigan, look me up!

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca

March 1, 2009, 05:59 PM

When he read a post by me on this forum about this dilemma, a very nice chap called Michael took pity on me, and he took me shooting todayHe drove a long way to pick me up from my hotel, took me to Angeles outdoor range and let me shoot up all his ammo.
He wouldn't accept anything from me in return except the satisfaction of enabling me to shoot for the first time in around 14 years.
Good to know there's still some nice folk around.
I had a great day, thanks Michael

Good job, Michael. You are a fine example of true THR'er.

4Freedom

March 1, 2009, 06:49 PM

I think I need to practice my british accent and just tell people I am new to AMerica and really like to try guns. Then people will drive 50 miles to come pick me up and bring me to the range and let me shoot hundreds of dollars of their ammo. This is a great tactic, thanks for the heads up :evil:.

Dang it, being a new American shooter, I feel overwhelmed and at disadvange. I came from an anti-gun background and moving up the ladder had been intimidating and challenging. Between the cost and large amount of information I must acquire, as well as being bogged down with my career, I have yet to progress in my gun skills. Not to mention there has been a few people who even wanted to charge me lots of $$$$ to show me how to shoot, even though they were not certified instructors. Well, I know there is friendly folks out there, but seeing that I am in a white collar job and am not really around many gun types, I know I will have to search around for such good friends as our British friend, James, has made.

BTW, If you're in Washington (Pacific NW), maybe you can enjoy some nice mountain shooting. Everyone should see the Pacific Northwest once in their life, if they got the $$$ and time to see it. YOu can help teach me that British accent and we can both go around claiming we are foreigners and scoring free ammo and training from the local yankees :evil:.

Superlite27

March 1, 2009, 07:16 PM

I have heard of the full auto ranges in Vegas

Well, If you think Vegas ranges are nice, I guess this will be like pointing out a bottle to an alcoholic....

Knob Creek is a heckuva lot closer to Ohio.

You should Google it.

catspaw

March 1, 2009, 07:44 PM

It was indeed James. I'm glad we had the opportunity to spend the afternoon at the Angeles Shooting Range; a much nicer venue than the local indoor ranges on a beautiful afternoon.
I brought a selection of handguns for James to shoot, and I was impressed with his knowledge; not only about firearms, but also of California's laws regarding firearms. James had done his homework.
We started with .22's; a Single-Six, S&W M18-2, and a .22-45. Then came some centerfire: S&W M15-3, a 686, an FM High Power, and finally, a Springfield 1911. The Angeles range has metal reactive targets at 35, 50, 75, and 100 yards. It was fun to watch James shoot; Bang! Ding! Smile....

James, next time we'll shoot rifles. The drive is a little further, but shooting at 1,000 yards is a good time.

jamesbeat

March 2, 2009, 03:50 AM

If all goes well, I'll be living in Cincinnati, OH.
I have done some research and it seems that permanent legal residents are indeed entitled to own firearms in Ohio, and are also able to get CCW's.

Michael, you're being kind, it was more like Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Ding! Smile!..... :D

I'm gonna hold you to the offer of rifle shooting

jamesbeat

March 2, 2009, 04:05 AM

Incidentally, a guy at the range let us have a go with his .460 S&W beast.

Here's a video of me firing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdy3sI3Ow5k

Recoil was stout to say the least, especially considering my almost complete lack of experience. The first shot actually made me take an involuntary step backwards!
The gun was not without a sense of humour. If you listen carefully, you'll hear Michael describe it as 'The Hammer of Thor', after which it promptly misfired.....

sengel

March 2, 2009, 06:16 AM

Jamesbeat,
I'm right across the river in Kentucky and have several "fun" guns you can shoot anytime. There is also a gunshop near Louisville that rents machine guns. That will only be about 1.5 hours driving for you. Welcome to the US in advance.

alistaire

March 2, 2009, 09:38 AM

James,
Welcome to the Land of the Free. Now you can join in the fight to keep us free.

Bailey Guns

March 2, 2009, 10:12 AM

James...

Congrats on your decision to move to the US! And kudos to Michael for making James' trip to CA a positive one.

I opened my own gun store in a small Colorado town back in 2000. I wasn't even completely open for business when a couple of gun-loving Brits on holiday wandered in to the joint. We instantly became friends and several of them made the trip back annually to CO between 2001 and 2007 to attend a Farnum shooting school that's hosted by the sheriff's department every year.

One of the guys actually immigrated to the local area last year...moved his business here and all. He's already acquired a CCW permit and a few new toys.

Another of the guys tried to move here with his wife but couldn't get permission from the gov't since he was retired. Very disappointing.

If you find yourself in CO, give me a heads up. I have access to some pretty good stuff to shoot...including stuff that turns ammo into noise at an impressive rate!

Welcome! Oh, yeah...Join the NRA!

Bailey Guns

March 2, 2009, 10:14 AM

BTW: nice job on the .460! No flinch at all on the misfire. Impressive. Do you still have that smile on your face?

Nickotym

March 2, 2009, 12:35 PM

Unfortunately Youtube pulled the video.

D-Day

March 2, 2009, 02:19 PM

Cincy...you'll definitely need a CCW in that city, heh.

If you ever have any questions about Ohio CCW, be sure to stop in at http://ohioccwforums.org/.

kilo729

March 2, 2009, 02:41 PM

No offense, but why do all of the foreigners seem to move to Ohio?

I've been told Cincinnati's reminds them of home :P Cold and rainy! At least that's what Steven Wilson said at Bogarts a few years back.

James, you chose well in choosing the Cincinnati area! I'm still looking for a rifle range at the moment though.

jamesbeat

March 2, 2009, 02:58 PM

Nickotym, the video is still there, were you trying to view it on a work computer or something?

I will be joining the NRA. A few years ago, I had some spare cash and I attempted to buy a lifetime membership but for some reason I couldn't get the payment to go through on my card.
If you lived in the UK, you'd understand how important it is to have an organisation like the NRA. In Britain there were several different ones fighting amongst themselves, and when the SHTF they weren't united enough to do anything about it. The attitude was that people only defended their own area of interest, so people who, for instance, only used shotguns turned their backs on the pistol shooters rather than rallying together.
They'll all be banned eventually.

This is also why CCW is so important. I intend to get mine even though I doubt I'll carry much. The reason is that in Britain, the first step towards banning firearms has always been to mandate that self defence is not a 'good reason' to own a firearm, and that they are for sporting use only.
That's the thin end of the wedge, because then they can argue that sporting use does not justify allowing civilians to own such a dangerous weapon.

I think CCW is a very important concept and that has to be worth a day with an instructor and 50 bucks even if you never plan to carry.

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone, and I hope your offers to go shooting with me are sincere, because I'll be turning up on your doorsteps either way :D

adorable_harree

March 2, 2009, 05:23 PM

I was 15 when my dad and me moved to Los Angeles from Manila as immigrants. Two months into our settling in, we visited my cousin who knew I had a thing about guns. He took me to a gunshop (B&B or B n B )near his home.
A kind gentlemen behind the counter first educated me about the 2nd amendment then let me HOLD all the guns I wanted. He took his time and before I left the shop handed over a stack of old gun magazines and said "begin your education" with a smile.
My dad wasn't much into guns when we were there and I wasn't able to fire a gun much, much later. But that kind man started me down the road with the hour he gave up giving in to the whims of a 15 year old kid.

bonza

March 2, 2009, 06:05 PM

Jamesbeat, good luck in your desire to move to the U.S., I'm sure you'll have no regrets. I was born in England, & then my family migrated to Australia when I was a kid. Have been living in the U.S. (Pacific NW) for nearly twenty years now & I love it! Been back to Australia a few times & always get to do some shooting while I'm there, but I couldn't live there again with the restrictions that they have to live with in order to own firearms. Have never been back to the U.K. since I left in '71, will make it one day but have a feeling I'll be disappointed with the changes I'll see(?).
I understand Cincinatti has some fairly strict gun laws, while most of Ohio is very good. I know quite a few people who work in Cincinatti, but live just over the border in Indiana which is very gun friendly.

jamesbeat

March 2, 2009, 10:04 PM

Bonza, I don't know whether you'll be disappointed in what you see when you visit the UK, but I suspect you will be.
I've noticed a profound change in the place over the last decade or so. It's been a gradual erosion of the quality of life of the average joe like me.
I was self employed, so I had an added dimension of unpleasantness, but it's bad for everyone.

The recession was the last straw for me, I went out of business after 12 years successful trading. Apparently 700 small businesses a week are going the same way, but the government is doing nothing to help.
Now I have no business to tie me to the UK, I want out. It's a pretty big deal for me to do this, but I guess if I don't do it at 33 I won't do it at all, and I have wanted to live here for as long as I can remember.

D-Day

March 3, 2009, 08:12 AM

Bonza, Ohio has state preemption now. Any laws that the cities try to enforce on guns that are not on the state books are moot.

So as long as you follow state law, you're fine in any Ohio city.

Tom S.

March 3, 2009, 10:26 AM

Jamesbeat,

Just think of it as an extension of our "Lend Lease" program. :D

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