As if the world needed more drama, a little bit more was stirred up last week down in Texas when two artists took the perspective of two different sides of the coin when it comes to measuring success in music. After some quotes from Granger Smith (a.k.a Earl Dibbles Jr.) about the Texas scene being “the minor leagues; that’s really what it is” surfaced, Wade Bowen responded to Granger with a simple, “Love my life! Cheers to the minor leagues!!”

Though neither artist specifically criticized the other, they were pitted against each other as rivals, while fans rushed to take sides and numerous players and personalities in the Texas scene decided to respond, fueling the war of words.

Saving Country Music headquarters received a call Tuesday afternoon (7-19), and was informed that Wade Bowen and Granger Smith had just engaged in a good, healthy phone conversation, and that Wade Bowen wanted to clear the air on the matter. Here’s the transcript:

You and Granger Smith just had a conversation?

Yeah, we did. I really don’t know him that well aside from playing a few shows together here and there, and he really didn’t know me either. I think if we had known each other it probably would have been handled on a private level. This is the first time either of us have really experienced anything like this in our careers. We had a good talk, and cleared the air somewhat.

When you tweeted out, “Love my life! Cheers to the minor leagues!” I thought it was in good taste. You encapsulated your perspective of how you felt about his quotes without attacking anybody. But obviously people love to make mountains out of molehills.

Everything I do I try to keep tasteful and respectful. Anybody who knows me knows I’m very respectful. I though the [Granger Smith interview] was really good except for one small paragraph that kind of set me off. I thought, “Well if that’s the way someone feels, I just would like to point out that I love my friends, and my job.” And if we’re going to call it the minor leagues, I would like to point out that I love what I do. It’s funny how I’ve said many things over my 18-year career, and this is the one thing that gets blown so far out of proportion. The last few days have been crazy on my end, because what came out of the comments was people’s assumptions of what they thought I meant, and maybe even assumptions of what Granger thinks. Then you have the battle of online comments. Social media is great for many things, but people can say whatever they want to. It’s a made up feud between Granger and I, when prior to this we hardly knew each other. I do think his comments were a poor choice of words. I think he and I have had different careers when it comes to Texas, and we spoke of that. He’s proud of his Texas roots and what he did here, but once he got out it was a little more successful for him.

I’ve experienced a lot of success in the Texas music scene. I tried, like many of us have, to break out, and take what we do to the rest of the world. I’ve been on a major label, yet I’ve mainly been an independent artist my whole life so I’ve seen both sides of it. I’m proud of where I come from, but along with all Texas artists, we fight that battle once we get outside of the scene here and do West Coast and East Coast tours, and make business trips to Nashville. We fight that Texas stereotype that we’re only successful here. So I was just insulted as a guy that’s been fighting for not only our scene, but a guy that’s been fighting in my career to break out and get out to the rest of the country.

You were saying how you try to be respectful to everybody, and I hear that same thing about Granger.

I’ve heard nothing but great things about Granger, and he was kind enough to say that to me as well. That’s actually how he started the conversation, and I thought that was very classy of him. I don’t think his quote came across the way he wanted it to. It was a poor choice of words from a good, decent guy who really has worked hard and is really proud of Texas and where he comes from. I didn’t say anything bad about his music or anything. I just wish people would stop thinking that I did.

You mentioned that at one point you were on a major label, and you went to Nashville like so many of the headliners in the Texas scene have. How was your experience? Were you happy you had the experience?

I’m very happy I had the experience. I’m happy I had the opportunity. It was a crazy, crazy time. I think so much of this career depends on timing more than talent. I have respect for everyone at Sony that I worked with. It was just really bad timing over there. They had just lost [Joe] Galante, and it was a complete change of regime. It was a revolving door there. The moment I would get close to someone they would get rid of them or they would leave. So it was really bad timing, but overall I found a lot of people on the major label side that wanted me to succeed. I think you have to really work when you’re on a major label to decide the good from the bad advice. But I think everyone that works there has every intention of trying to help you and your career. I learned a lot from it. If I had an opportunity to be with another label again, major or independent, if the deal is right, I would gladly do it because I feel like I’m a strong enough musician to know when to let my guard down, and also know when to put my foot down. I understand where Granger is coming from with a lot of this stuff because I’ve seen both sides.

What really affected me the most about Granger’s statements was that I don’t think Texas is a testing ground. I think Guy Clark, Rodney Crowell, Robert Earl Keen, and even Waylon and Willie back in the day have proven that Texas has never been a testing ground. From the artists, to the songwriters, to the record stores, to the charts, to the radio stations, everybody plays a part in how we can build a foundation that lasts a lifetime. I’m always trying to make decisions based off of a 50 year career, and not a two year career. I don’t make decisions based off of money. I try to make decision based off of what I think is going to last the longest, so that I can play and write songs, and do what I love.

Texas is a launching pad for people. Even if you don’t get as successful in Texas as you want to be, you still are building something whether you know it or not. You’re building a foundation of fans that I believe are the best there are. But it’s really important to realize that when we go to the East Coast or the West Coast, they don’t want to hear “Texas Texas Texas!” all the time. They just want to hear great music. I hate to alienate anybody from this scene. I like to welcome everybody in. And I felt like the statements made by Granger were just going to push us back even further, and some people might go back to thinking this is a minor league deal, and it’s not. It’s a launching pad.

Do you consider yourself a Texas country artist? Or do you consider yourself a songwriter who happens to be from Texas?

I’m an artist from Texas. I’m a songwriter from Texas. And I love that fact. I’ve done nothing but worked my ass off for 18 years within the Texas region to make that a focal point of my career. But at the same time, I really think it’s important that we don’t just alienate ourselves from the rest of the world. I’m going over to the UK to play for the first time in November. I’ll proudly say I’m from Texas and here’s my music. But I also don’t think we have to strictly say, “Well he’s a part of the Texas music scene.” Texas music is Willie and Waylon, it’s ZZ Top and Stevie Ray. I play shows with Kevin Fowler, and our music is the complete opposite of each other. That’s such a strength of Texas. To me it’s about the fans. The people here really love what we do, and they get behind it enough to start companies and stores and music venues.

We’re very lucky that if you don’t want to leave Texas and you just want to play and provide for your family, you can do that and never leave the borders. And then there are artists that do want to leave the borders and take what they do in Texas and play the rest of the country and other parts of the world. I think it’s also important that we stick to the independent side of this conversation and say yeah, we’re indie artists, just the same as Sturgill Simpson and Jason Isbell. We’re just out there working our asses off trying to make new believers when we walk out on stage and release records. I don’t think there is a minor league anymore, not that there ever was. The majors are the ones that are in the minors.

I had built up such an indie career prior to signing with Sony, I remember fighting every single day with radio people and other media about it being Texas this, and Texas that. Yes, I’m from Texas, but can you find a way to embrace that and not just pigeon hole me into one sound? There are lots of artists that would love to break out of the whole Texas thing, but it has nothing to do with wanting to alienate the Texas scene at all. Don’t hold that against us because we’ve worked hard at what we’ve built. Give us a chance on the radio and see if your listeners like it. I think there’s a lot of Texas music that’s very universal. At the same time we have a lot of artists from outside of Texas, independent and major label artists that will come to us to get a chance to play in front of these crowds.

I have been fighting this really hard for at least the last five years, probably longer, to get written about and recognized for the music that we play, and not where we’re from. That post the other night was part of my fight to say, “Hey look, I’m fighting for our scene, I’m fighting for all of us. Don’t pigeon hole us. Give us a chance. Listen to the music. You might actually really love it.”

I think there’s just so much talent and so many great people in this scene, and so many of us support each other. And I think I’m just trying to stick up for the independent artists in general. There’s nothing minor league about music. It’s too difficult of a career career choice and a very hard life.

A couple of years ago, I’m not exactly sure where it was, maybe Facebook, but I saw a Halloween picture of you with your family at your house. It seemed like a pretty innocuous photo of you and your family. But what it made me realize was that here’s an independent Texas artist, and he’s got a family, a house, he’s got kids and a beautiful wife. He’s making it in music, he’s able to do what he wants to do, play the songs he wants to play, and make a good living at it. That possibility is out there for Texas artists if they have talent and play their cards right.

Success is relative. It’s all relative to what you feel success is. That’s probably the reason I had such a big issue with what was said because none of it matters. If success is getting a major label deal, then go for it. If you wake up every day and are happy, and you feel like working your ass of and good things are happening, then that to me is successful. Even if you’re riding around in a van, or just still opening gigs. Success is so relative to your expectations.

After leaving Sony and getting out of the whole major thing, I have since found so much happiness and so much comfort in making records that I’m so proud of and that I probably never would have gotten to do on a major. I can go into the Hold My Beer stuff that Randy [Rogers] and I never got to do because we were both on major labels, and that turned so many heads, and shows so much of the love and friendship that we have. And then I did the gospel record that I was never going to release and made for my mom, but I ended up releasing it because I can. I love my life, and the whole point of my words was to say “Hey, if that’s the minors, I’ll take it.” It’s more of a positive statement. It was never meant to be a negative statement towards anybody. I’m so happy and content with my life. I think that really just what I wanted to get across to everyone.

29 Comments

Great interview, Trig. Good to hear him throwing out names like Waylon and Willie and REK and the others. Also liked how within those comments he said how Texas isn’t a testing ground. Granger Smith is hardly the first person I’ve heard say something of that nature and it couldn’t be more untrue.

But anyhow, wade Bowen was such a great part of my time at A&M. I got to see a lot of his shows- he has so many devoted fans in Texas. Granger shouldn’t have said what he did. If he has national aspirations, that’s fine. But there is nothing wrong with being adored by a smaller area of people. It’s all your frame of reference.

Apologies if there were some typos when this article was first posted. As was explained above, all of this came together this afternoon last minute. I was not intending to post an in-depth interview with Wade Bowen, but he wanted to clear the air and do so ASAP so we facilitated.

“Success is relative. It’s all relative to what you feel success is. That’s probably the reason I had such a big issue with what was said because none of it matters. If success is getting a major label deal, then go for it. If you wake up every day and are happy, and you feel like working your ass of and good things are happening, then that to me is successful. Even if you’re riding around in a van, or just still opening gigs. Success is so relative to your expectations.”

May just be one of the greatest statements I’ve read in a while. Great artist who believes in what he does. I attended the show Saturday night in Oklahoma, and when he broke out with his gospel music in a bar, everyone sang along. Wade has the voice and ability make you want to sing along!!

I love that final sentiment. Not everybody who writes or performs music is in it to be famous. If you can pay your bills and support your family while doing something you love instead of sitting behind a desk all day, that’s more than a lot of us can say.

There is one detail surrounding the initial controversy that I felt could have been addressed more, and it’s not so much the verbiage of Granger’s remarks but the tone as he inflected “That’s really what it is!”.

On paper, I actually thought Granger wasn’t intentionally trying to be dismissive of the Texas country community or had malicious purpose. His words were poorly chosen for sure, but I didn’t gather he meant any harm. However, I took more issue with the WAY he said “That’s really what it is!”. It made him sound relieved he had since moved on to bigger ponds and thus I could see how some could hear that and view him as ungrateful.

As humble as Wade Bowen unmistakably is, I kind of felt there was a sly jab we threw at Granger Smith when he mentioned he approaches decision-making in his musical career through the lens of a 50-year plan as opposed to a two year plan and saying he doesn’t do things for money. I couldn’t help but feel, at that moment, he was pointing his finger at Granger as if to say his mind is clearly on the money now and is approaching his career myopically around obtaining hit singles from “Remington” over the next year and a half to two years without a more expansive artistic outlook in mind. I mean, he made his point respectfully, but I do feel that was a subtle knock on him! 😉

Wade may have not been pointing his finger at Granger with the “50 year” comment as much as the vast majority of the industry, especially in the mainstream—that probably also happens to include Granger.

Not gonna lie, I tweeted Wade Bowen an apology last night, I was very sincere in saying that Wade was the best I found since Garth Brooks but I still felt my comments were a little condescending to not only him but also Granger Smith especially with my past comments on Bro-Country.

No reply yet but I do believe that Wade would tell me not to worry about it.

You don’t have to go to Nashville and sell millions of hip-hop rickety-scratch sneakers-in-the-dryer Bro-country albums to be revered as a legend. Look at Guy Clark’s career…arguably one of the greatest legends in all of Texas Music, yet he never had a super star celebrity career. He just wrote amazing songs and changed the world with his music. And what kind of music was it actually? Who the hell knows? Country? Folk? Blue grass? Americana?…. It was just damn good music.

Wade Bowen is following in Guy Clark’s footsteps if you ask me. Great songwriting and true to the music. Classy as hell…just like Guy Clark.

I wouldn’t pay 50 cents to watch Granger Smith play rap music all night. Nashville has gone thug and gangster. What a joke. I like what we’ve got going on in the Texas Country/Red Dirt music scene. Suits me just fine.

Agree with this 100%, by the way. GS will never get another dime of mine. Notice how he has been eerily silent on this whole thing? And he’s the one who threw the jab in the first place-I wholeheartedly agree with Nadia Lockheart about the extra jab at the end. If he would have just left it at the “minor leagues” part, I don’t think any of us would have ever read anything about this.

Im failing to see what makes Granger a sell out, for wanting to make a name for himself on a national level. Don’t get me wrong, i have all the respect in the world for Wade and the scene as a whole, but i also think that people should be able to play what and where-ever-the-hell they want, given the opportunity; and opportunities like Granger’s are few and far between. Granger is an entertainer, and a damn good one (if you’ve seen a show, im sure you’ll agree). Say what you will about his music, but the dude puts on a hell of a show. People love it, and he seems to love doing it, so why wouldn’t he want to take an opportunity which ultimately will lead to more shows and bigger crowds? I mean yeah he’ll be paid well, but he clearly has a passion for it, and to say money is his only motivation is a bit of a cop-out. Either way, i’d say he deserves every penny. His words were poorly chosen, yes, and i doubt they represent entirely his thoughts on the scene; but is he forever required to stay only in the confines of Texas country? No exploring? No ambitions allowed? Texas’s way or the highway? Wade said he himself tried to branch out once, signed with Sony, but it didn’t work out — it happens. So if Granger is a sell out, then Wade was an aspiring sell out, only no one was buying. It was just bad timing.

For me it’s not the fact that Granger wants to branch out and play outside of Texas. That’s great. A lot of our Texas artists branch out and I’m all for it. The problem I have with Granger is that he’s jumped on this ridiculous bro-country bandwagon that Nashville is shoving down everybody’s throats. Our Texas artists don’t play that crap and I thank God for it.

Nashville has lost its way. Thankfully most of our Texas artists are sticking with that inimitable Texas sound, whether it’s traditional country, Western swing, Texas Blues, southern rock, Tex-Mex Conjunto, or a mixture of all of those styles. That is the Texas sound that we love. And we don’t want to hear any Nashville hip-hop crap the likes of what Granger Smith is doing now.

And then the straw that broke the camel’s back for me was that stupid comment that he made the other day about Texas being the minor leagues. I am done with Granger Smith. I will not be supporting him anymore. He has wondered off the reservation.

Granger will have his year or two playing sold out arenas around the country. And then when Nashville throws him out like an old dirty dish rag in a couple of years, he’ll come limping back here to Texas expecting all of his old fans that supported him in the early days to welcome him back with open arms. Well, he’ll get no support or sympathy from me. He burned that bridge the other day with his asinine comments.

Got it, so you can branch out, leave the borders of Texas, just as long as you sound inimitably “Texas.” Thanks for clearing that up. Im not saying i like bro-country, frankly im tired of it, and am hoping its on its way out. But right now, unfortunately, thats whats selling, Nashville is a music factory that makes music that will sell to the largest amount of people. So if your to blame anyone, blame the listeners, not the artist.

I was pretty offended by Granger’s statement about the minor leagues, etc. But I’ve calmed down a little bit. I loved what Wade said about wanting to get the music out there into the world. I agree- I don’t even live in Texas but I’m blown away by the artistry that is out there. The songwriting, singing, musicianship, etc.- I’m loving it, it’s amazing. The whole “minor leagues” statement was an insult to me, as a fan. I understand what he was saying, but it is only “major” in terms of numbers, and arenas. For now. I am convinced that if more people even KNEW about the options out there for country other than Nashville, they would be leaving by the thousands. They just don’t know. But as long as Wade and Granger have let it go, I will too. I will be spending my time streaming Red Dirt out of Texas. Thank you to all of the artists out there.