Anyways, I'm still looking forward to this show in three weeks. Wish I could be there, but hey, maybe this summer I'll be able to afford another trip down. I honestly can't wait to see how brutal Steen and Cage go, cause I mean, Steen kills and Cage is a fuckin' machine (to quote Excalibur). Can EVERYONE at least agree on that?

And btw, i dont want my opinion of the main event to bring down the event. The May 25th25th's19th event looks stacked (other than Candice/Joey match). I just feel that after having a huge DDT4 event, the next PWG show will be headlined by Steen vs Cage (a person who lost in the 1st round of DDT4).

krayzie Bone wrote:I don't mind gimmicks, as log as it doesn't intrude on wrestling. When I first saw Brian Cage debuting in PWG, I right away knew that this the guy who can potentially be a world champion. He is a big dude that can wrestle. Most wrestling promotions would be proud to have him as their champion. You guys cheer for Avalon and Tozawa, but you can't appreciate Cage? I really hate to say this but no wonder Indies suffer, modern day wrestling fan is beyond hope lol

Who ever said we dont appreciate Cage? Cage is a great wrestler and does deserve a better spot light than what he is usually getting... but that doesnt mean he should be immediately put in the main event. Krazie Bone, u stated that we didnt mind Steen vs Avalon from a few months ago. 1) That was the opening match and we all knew Steen would be back later in the show in some capacity and 2) that match wasnt advertised beforehand. If they would have advertised Steen vs Avalon as the main avent, people would have questioned that too.

Krazie Bone, u have an opinion that "This is PWG and not WWE" & "There is no story lines." Im glad u feel that way, but ur just one person. You dont fill out the Legion Hall by urself. I know u love wrestling, and so do I, but its the storylines that have people filling out the seats in Reseda.

No its wrestling that is filling out the seats and PWG have very few story lines. Other local promotions in SoCal got story lines too, how come they are not getting as much attention as PWG? PWG is the only product on the West Coast that is being watched all over the world. When PWG fans see a mediocre match they openly ridicule it, PWG fans want to see nothing but the best possible wrestling in America, I'm really amazed that you don't know this

The Franchise13 wrote:And btw, i dont want my opinion of the main event to bring down the event. The May 25th25th's19th event looks stacked (other than Candice/Joey match). I just feel that after having a huge DDT4 event, the next PWG show will be headlined by Steen vs Cage (a person who lost in the 1st round of DDT4).

If you are so concerned about wins and losses, I suggest you watch Evolve lol

krayzie Bone wrote:I don't mind gimmicks, as log as it doesn't intrude on wrestling. When I first saw Brian Cage debuting in PWG, I right away knew that this the guy who can potentially be a world champion. He is a big dude that can wrestle. Most wrestling promotions would be proud to have him as their champion. You guys cheer for Avalon and Tozawa, but you can't appreciate Cage? I really hate to say this but no wonder Indies suffer, modern day wrestling fan is beyond hope lol

Who ever said we dont appreciate Cage? Cage is a great wrestler and does deserve a better spot light than what he is usually getting... but that doesnt mean he should be immediately put in the main event. Krazie Bone, u stated that we didnt mind Steen vs Avalon from a few months ago. 1) That was the opening match and we all knew Steen would be back later in the show in some capacity and 2) that match wasnt advertised beforehand. If they would have advertised Steen vs Avalon as the main avent, people would have questioned that too.

Krazie Bone, u have an opinion that "This is PWG and not WWE" & "There is no story lines." Im glad u feel that way, but ur just one person. You dont fill out the Legion Hall by urself. I know u love wrestling, and so do I, but its the storylines that have people filling out the seats in Reseda.

No its wrestling that is filling out the seats and PWG have very few story lines. Other local promotions in SoCal got story lines too, how come they are not getting as much attention as PWG? PWG is the only product on the West Coast that is being watched all over the world. When PWG fans see a mediocre match they openly ridicule it, PWG fans want to see nothing but the best possible wrestling in America, I'm really amazed that you don't know this

Oh I know it. Believe me I do, PWG has the best talent in the world (Brian Cage being part of that talent). But just because they have the Best Talent, it doesnt mean that they could shuffle things around and make no sense. Now, im just disagreeing on this particular match. I believe this coming show is going to be amazing. To me every show is amazing, thats why I havent missed a show in 3 years. And just like I havent missed a show in 3 years, i do have the right to my opinion. And I feel that giving a guy who has a worst win/loss record than Candice Lerae. Krazie Bone, u probably think she deserves a title shot next, right?

This has nothing to do with storylines, but the PWG Title should mean something, especially if its the main title in the best wrestling company in the world. Having a title being defended versus a guy ehose been opening shows... it doesnt make sense.

The thing about Cage though, is they're not building him up to be a world beating #1 contender. Steen put out an open challenge, Cage accepted it, and that's that. That in and of itself is the storyline, the reason why Cage is getting the shot. Otherwise it IS random and it IS nonsensical.

They don't have many long stretching, over arching storylines like they used to do with Dragon/Steen and Tornado/Hero, but there are little things plastered throughout the shows that make it more than just "A wrestling show with (insert number here) wrestling matches".

And Krayzie, for Christs Sake, when someone wrestles really well and has superior athletic ability, YES, they make that their gimmick. I am not saying a gimmick is what makes a wrestler talented or not, I'm saying that's how the wrestlers portray themselves and want to be perceived.

As for a shitty wrestler, and whether they suck or not, I point you to Joey Ryan. He wrestles WAY below his ability level, for the sake of a gimmick (Whichever one he decides to wrestle under on any given night.... shit changes a lot). Does he suck because he does an annoyingly bad Andy Kaufman gimmick? No. We've all seen Joey wrestle his ass off and tear it up. He'd rather wrestle under a showy gimmick than do the indy style sprints and head drops all the time. There's nothing wrong with that.

No one is going to wrestle like shit and suck and call it their gimmick. I think you severely misunderstand what a gimmick really is and the purpose it's supposed to serve.

And I've been a PWG fan since the fall of '05 and missed maybe a handful of shows. Yeah, I'd call myself a PWG fan.

Alright, let's change the subject, please. Steen vs. Cage is happening unless circumstances change (travel, injury, etc.). I think there are two incredible matches I'm looking forward to: Generico vs. Ricochet and Young Bucks vs. SSB. I hope that most of the Young Bucks vs. SSB stays in the ring. As much as I loved Steen/Dragon vs. Young Bucks in a Guerilla Warfare match, it was difficult to watch live. Generico and Rico can tear it up every single night.

Matt Flash wrote:The thing about Cage though, is they're not building him up to be a world beating #1 contender. Steen put out an open challenge, Cage accepted it, and that's that. That in and of itself is the storyline, the reason why Cage is getting the shot. Otherwise it IS random and it IS nonsensical.

They don't have many long stretching, over arching storylines like they used to do with Dragon/Steen and Tornado/Hero, but there are little things plastered throughout the shows that make it more than just "A wrestling show with (insert number here) wrestling matches".

And Krayzie, for Christs Sake, when someone wrestles really well and has superior athletic ability, YES, they make that their gimmick. I am not saying a gimmick is what makes a wrestler talented or not, I'm saying that's how the wrestlers portray themselves and want to be perceived.

As for a shitty wrestler, and whether they suck or not, I point you to Joey Ryan. He wrestles WAY below his ability level, for the sake of a gimmick (Whichever one he decides to wrestle under on any given night.... shit changes a lot). Does he suck because he does an annoyingly bad Andy Kaufman gimmick? No. We've all seen Joey wrestle his ass off and tear it up. He'd rather wrestle under a showy gimmick than do the indy style sprints and head drops all the time. There's nothing wrong with that.

No one is going to wrestle like shit and suck and call it their gimmick. I think you severely misunderstand what a gimmick really is and the purpose it's supposed to serve.

And I've been a PWG fan since the fall of '05 and missed maybe a handful of shows. Yeah, I'd call myself a PWG fan.

Oh yeah of course I have no clue what the gimmick is, I've been watching wrestling for 25 years and still don't know what a gimmick, sad case aint I?

You really pulling shit out of your ass now when make claims about Joey. Did it ever cross your mind that when you saw 5 star matches from Joey in the past he was simply younger and faster? I've seen Joey wrestle on the west coat, east coast and Midwest and even when Joey is a face he always wrestles the same. He does not slow down his style because he is a heel in PWG, where do you come up with this non sense?

Again superior wrestling ability is not a gimmick, some guys suck and some are awesome.

Matt Flash wrote:The thing about Cage though, is they're not building him up to be a world beating #1 contender. Steen put out an open challenge, Cage accepted it, and that's that. That in and of itself is the storyline, the reason why Cage is getting the shot. Otherwise it IS random and it IS nonsensical.

They don't have many long stretching, over arching storylines like they used to do with Dragon/Steen and Tornado/Hero, but there are little things plastered throughout the shows that make it more than just "A wrestling show with (insert number here) wrestling matches".

And Krayzie, for Christs Sake, when someone wrestles really well and has superior athletic ability, YES, they make that their gimmick. I am not saying a gimmick is what makes a wrestler talented or not, I'm saying that's how the wrestlers portray themselves and want to be perceived.

As for a shitty wrestler, and whether they suck or not, I point you to Joey Ryan. He wrestles WAY below his ability level, for the sake of a gimmick (Whichever one he decides to wrestle under on any given night.... shit changes a lot). Does he suck because he does an annoyingly bad Andy Kaufman gimmick? No. We've all seen Joey wrestle his ass off and tear it up. He'd rather wrestle under a showy gimmick than do the indy style sprints and head drops all the time. There's nothing wrong with that.

No one is going to wrestle like shit and suck and call it their gimmick. I think you severely misunderstand what a gimmick really is and the purpose it's supposed to serve.

And I've been a PWG fan since the fall of '05 and missed maybe a handful of shows. Yeah, I'd call myself a PWG fan.

Oh yeah of course I have no clue what the gimmick is, I've been watching wrestling for 25 years and still don't know what a gimmick, sad case aint I?

You really pulling shit out of your ass now when make claims about Joey. Did it ever cross your mind that when you saw 5 star matches from Joey in the past he was simply younger and faster? I've seen Joey wrestle on the west coat, east coast and Midwest and even when Joey is a face he always wrestles the same. He does not slow down his style because he is a heel in PWG, where do you come up with this non sense?

Again superior wrestling ability is not a gimmick, some guys suck and some are awesome.

Well I will say this about Kevin Steen vs Brian Cage...it has certainly inspired quite a bit of debate around here. And that's a good thing. Hell, I'm starting to think that booking that match was all just a master plan to get people talking. And it worked. I'm actually that much more into seeing it now that's it been such a heated topic on the board. I stand by my opinion of the whole thing...but fuck it, this is Death To All But Metal...and I LOVES Me some Metal!!!!

Matt Flash wrote:The thing about Cage though, is they're not building him up to be a world beating #1 contender. Steen put out an open challenge, Cage accepted it, and that's that. That in and of itself is the storyline, the reason why Cage is getting the shot. Otherwise it IS random and it IS nonsensical.

They don't have many long stretching, over arching storylines like they used to do with Dragon/Steen and Tornado/Hero, but there are little things plastered throughout the shows that make it more than just "A wrestling show with (insert number here) wrestling matches".

And Krayzie, for Christs Sake, when someone wrestles really well and has superior athletic ability, YES, they make that their gimmick. I am not saying a gimmick is what makes a wrestler talented or not, I'm saying that's how the wrestlers portray themselves and want to be perceived.

As for a shitty wrestler, and whether they suck or not, I point you to Joey Ryan. He wrestles WAY below his ability level, for the sake of a gimmick (Whichever one he decides to wrestle under on any given night.... shit changes a lot). Does he suck because he does an annoyingly bad Andy Kaufman gimmick? No. We've all seen Joey wrestle his ass off and tear it up. He'd rather wrestle under a showy gimmick than do the indy style sprints and head drops all the time. There's nothing wrong with that.

No one is going to wrestle like shit and suck and call it their gimmick. I think you severely misunderstand what a gimmick really is and the purpose it's supposed to serve.

And I've been a PWG fan since the fall of '05 and missed maybe a handful of shows. Yeah, I'd call myself a PWG fan.

Oh yeah of course I have no clue what the gimmick is, I've been watching wrestling for 25 years and still don't know what a gimmick, sad case aint I?

You really pulling shit out of your ass now when make claims about Joey. Did it ever cross your mind that when you saw 5 star matches from Joey in the past he was simply younger and faster? I've seen Joey wrestle on the west coat, east coast and Midwest and even when Joey is a face he always wrestles the same. He does not slow down his style because he is a heel in PWG, where do you come up with this non sense?

Again superior wrestling ability is not a gimmick, some guys suck and some are awesome.

Itchypanda wrote:Alright, let's change the subject, please. Steen vs. Cage is happening unless circumstances change (travel, injury, etc.). I think there are two incredible matches I'm looking forward to: Generico vs. Ricochet and Young Bucks vs. SSB. I hope that most of the Young Bucks vs. SSB stays in the ring. As much as I loved Steen/Dragon vs. Young Bucks in a Guerilla Warfare match, it was difficult to watch live. Generico and Rico can tear it up every single night.

I have been clamoring for the Generico/Ricochet rematch for over a year now, so I am beyond fired up to see it finally happening. I thought the storyline to the first match was picture perfect...Generico, the uber popular veteran high-flyer was being faced with the reality that there may be somebody who is younger, faster and potentially better than he is at his own game...and it fucked with him to the point where frustration almost took over. He even took my beer pitcher and nearly clocked Ricochet with it. Great stuff! When I talked to both guys at WrestleReunion they were also hoping the rematch would happen at some point. So it's been a long time coming but I'm sure it'll be more than worth the wait!

Itchypanda wrote:Alright, let's change the subject, please. Steen vs. Cage is happening unless circumstances change (travel, injury, etc.). I think there are two incredible matches I'm looking forward to: Generico vs. Ricochet and Young Bucks vs. SSB. I hope that most of the Young Bucks vs. SSB stays in the ring. As much as I loved Steen/Dragon vs. Young Bucks in a Guerilla Warfare match, it was difficult to watch live. Generico and Rico can tear it up every single night.

I have been clamoring for the Generico/Ricochet rematch for over a year now, so I am beyond fired up to see it finally happening. I thought the storyline to the first match was picture perfect...Generico, the uber popular veteran high-flyer was being faced with the reality that there may be somebody who is younger, faster and potentially better than he is at his own game...and it fucked with him to the point where frustration almost took over. He even took my beer pitcher and nearly clocked Ricochet with it. Great stuff! When I talked to both guys at WrestleReunion they were also hoping the rematch would happen at some point. So it's been a long time coming but I'm sure it'll be more than worth the wait!

Absolutely. I loved when they did the same thing with Generico and PAC. They definitely played up Generico doing heelish stuff more with Ricochet than they did with PAC, but both of those stories were done fucking well. And what they did with Generico/Ricochet and teaming them up, I always wanted them to do with Generico/PAC. I wouldn't be surprised if they made it the pre-intermission/first half main event match to let them go all out, and allow the crowd to come down from the high these two give us.

Matt Flash wrote:The thing about Cage though, is they're not building him up to be a world beating #1 contender. Steen put out an open challenge, Cage accepted it, and that's that. That in and of itself is the storyline, the reason why Cage is getting the shot. Otherwise it IS random and it IS nonsensical.

They don't have many long stretching, over arching storylines like they used to do with Dragon/Steen and Tornado/Hero, but there are little things plastered throughout the shows that make it more than just "A wrestling show with (insert number here) wrestling matches".

And Krayzie, for Christs Sake, when someone wrestles really well and has superior athletic ability, YES, they make that their gimmick. I am not saying a gimmick is what makes a wrestler talented or not, I'm saying that's how the wrestlers portray themselves and want to be perceived.

As for a shitty wrestler, and whether they suck or not, I point you to Joey Ryan. He wrestles WAY below his ability level, for the sake of a gimmick (Whichever one he decides to wrestle under on any given night.... shit changes a lot). Does he suck because he does an annoyingly bad Andy Kaufman gimmick? No. We've all seen Joey wrestle his ass off and tear it up. He'd rather wrestle under a showy gimmick than do the indy style sprints and head drops all the time. There's nothing wrong with that.

No one is going to wrestle like shit and suck and call it their gimmick. I think you severely misunderstand what a gimmick really is and the purpose it's supposed to serve.

And I've been a PWG fan since the fall of '05 and missed maybe a handful of shows. Yeah, I'd call myself a PWG fan.

Oh yeah of course I have no clue what the gimmick is, I've been watching wrestling for 25 years and still don't know what a gimmick, sad case aint I?

You really pulling shit out of your ass now when make claims about Joey. Did it ever cross your mind that when you saw 5 star matches from Joey in the past he was simply younger and faster? I've seen Joey wrestle on the west coat, east coast and Midwest and even when Joey is a face he always wrestles the same. He does not slow down his style because he is a heel in PWG, where do you come up with this non sense?

Again superior wrestling ability is not a gimmick, some guys suck and some are awesome.

Of course I'm not gonna change, I will never sell out to sports entertainment fans or the stupid shit on TV. I mean you guys cheer for Peter Avalon, need I say anything more about a modern day wrestling fan?

Anyways I'm not here to put anyone down or get into some fucked up argument, no those days are over. I wised up and realized that arguing with people in their 20's about anything is pointless, whether its wrestling, politics, social issues, movies, or anything else for that matter.

As far as Joey goes may be I didn't express myself correctly or may be you guys misunderstood me. Joey is a heel so his wrestling style reflects his gimmick, that is true, the only point I was trying to make is that Joey is simply not the same performer that you saw in 2006, whether heel or face. Never the less I do like Joey, he is a great guy and he is one of the founding fathers of PWG, I got nothing but respect for him.

krayzie Bone wrote:Of course I'm not gonna change, I will never sell out to sports entertainment fans or the stupid shit on TV. I mean you guys cheer for Peter Avalon, need I say anything more about a modern day wrestling fan?

Anyways I'm not here to put anyone down or get into some fucked up argument, no those days are over. I wised up and realized that arguing with people in their 20's about anything is pointless, whether its wrestling, politics, social issues, movies, or anything else for that matter.

As far as Joey goes may be I didn't express myself correctly or may be you guys misunderstood me. Joey is a heel so his wrestling style reflects his gimmick, that is true, the only point I was trying to make is that Joey is simply not the same performer that you saw in 2006, whether heel or face. Never the less I do like Joey, he is a great guy and he is one of the founding fathers of PWG, I got nothing but respect for him.

What exactly makes us sports entertainment fans? If you've been a fan for 25 years, you'd think you would understand the necessity of storylines and accept it. PWG makes due (Understatement of the century) with minimal storylines, but they're there. They do focus on the straight up wrestling, and they do it incredibly, so don't think I'm trying to argue that point. They found what they can do best on a show-to-show basis and they're running with it.

And I guess my 20-something brain is just out of whack, because that definitely looked like a put down. I just look for entertainment, whatever form it comes in, as I'm sure you do. I guess I'm just lucky that I have a wider palette. Is someone like Avalon my favorite wrestler? No. Does he look like what you'd expect a pro wrestler to look like? Absolutely not. Does he make me regret watching his matches? Not a chance. The guy is funny as hell. If that means I get called a modern day wrestling fan, I'd gladly get lumped in with that group than whatever the hell kind of wrestling fan you consider yourself.

Matt, I guess you don't know much about me, which is perfectly fine because I don't want to advertise myself to you, but yes I've been involved with wrestling for 25 years now. I consider myself just a fan although I'm a personal friend of well known wrestling promoters, I helped with booking, gave much advice regarding countless shows and recommended talent. However I chose just to be a fan and not get involved further, although I had many opportunities. With my connections I get start a wrestling promotion tomorrow and give you a loaded show, the only thing that stops me from doing so is money.

One thing I will ask you Matt, do not get personal with me, it something you don't want to do. Let's just squash this needless debate and focus on the upcoming show. If you want to continue the flame war send me a pm, I will give you my number, otherwise let's just focus on the show and promote this show, rather then our opinions.

Just one more thing to answer some of Matt's questions. What makes you sports entertainment fan? The fact that you watch WWE.

You asked what kind of wrestling fan am I? I guess I'm a 90's ECW fan. I guess its the best category to put myself into. And you see back in ECW we had funny characters too like Blue Meanie and the Musketeer, the difference is, we didn't think they were cool and we didn't want them to win, we wanted them to be squashed.