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Re: [S-R] Found records and need help with a village name

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Vladimir Linder

VELKE LEVARE, Vladi ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Message 1 of 34
, Sep 7, 2011

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VELKE LEVARE,

Vladi

At 07:58 AM 9/7/2011, you wrote:

>
>
>Hi everyone, I wanted to share my excitement
>with you - it was a nasty rainy day in NJ
>yesterday so I decided to spend some time
>looking thru the Family Search records for
>Nagylevard. I had previously found my
>grandmother's baptism record, and by the time I
>went to bed last night I had found her parents
>marriage and death records as well as 6 siblings
>baptism records. I looked thru hundreds if not
>thousands of pages of records, but what I came
>away with is just priceless. I just wish the
>records went past 1895 so I could find my grandparents marriage records.
>
>My grandfather on the other hand is proving
>harder to find. On his immigration records he
>lists Nagylevard as his place of birth, but in
>all the pages I searched thru yesterday not once
>did I come across anyone with his last name of
>Schmaus or Smausz. On his US military
>registration records he listed Tsokolo Hungary
>as his place of birth but I cannot find any
>record of this village anywhere. Any ideas?
>Thanks so much,
>Doris Tkaczyk
>
>

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htcstech

... Can of worms! My degree is in European history and I can tell you that there is a sharp divide between East European and West European history. As far as

> **
>
>
> I�m more than willing to be educated on the Hungarian Crown rule. The six
> books of Slovak history I read did not make the Hungarian rule seem anything
> close to the Spanish Inquisition or what the French did to the Huguenots. My
> degree is in Asian History. So I have only begun to educate myself on Slovak
> history. Unfortunately, my parents did not see the need to teach me Slovak.
> So I have to rely on what has ever been written in English.
> True, those who returned are not a story of assimilation in the USA. But it
> is a story of the Slovaks and how they did not see America as an �end all�
> destination. They had a long enough history of needing a means of making
> enough to survive. As the book pointed out, the goal was to make $1000 and
> then head home. Because of this there was a tendency for the Slovaks to be
> �clannish� and not assimilate quickly. It would be interesting to know what
> percentage of immigrants could be declared assimilated in their lifetime. In
> my parents hometown which was not very large there was a Slovak
> neighborhood,church and school. Other nationalities did like wise.
> One of the affects of those 57% returning home is they came back with a
> whole new point of view about politics. And from it came the acceptance for
> the movement for a separate Slovak state in the villages. Could it be said
> they had been changed so much they were no longer assimilated in their
> Slovak society?
>
> From: Nemam Meno
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 5:48 PM
>

Can of worms! My degree is in European history and I can tell you that there
is a sharp divide between East European and West European history.
As far as Magyarisation is concerned, the Hapsburgs themselves were the
underlying cause of this.
Here is a good starter. If you still have access to your university's
on-line library then:
Evans, R. J. W. (Author). Austria, Hungary, and the Habsburgs : Central
Europe, c. 1683-1867.
Cary, NC, USA: Oxford University Press, 2006

A good read and a lot more background:
Wheatcroft, Andrew (Author). Enemy at the Gate : Habsburgs, Ottomans, and
the Battle for Europe.
New York, NY, USA: Basic Books, 2009.

And if that garners interest then:
Deak, Istvan (Author). Beyond Nationalism : A Social and Political History
of the Habsburg Officer Corps, 1848-1918.
Cary, NC, USA: Oxford University Press, 1990.

Nationalism is very strong and colours viewpoints (if you know what I mean).
Ultimately however, any ruling authority that instigates a policy to stop
teaching the local language is not good. Yet the Hapsburgs or for that
matter the Bohemian aristocrats who had substantial power in Vienna did
nothing to stop it, and even encouraged it. Moravia was completely ignored
by them and Silesia was given away to the Polish. In fact, the church in
Rome (Hapsburg was the last Holy Roman Emperor) was the root cause.
Magyarisation was feeble, compared to what the 3rd Reich or the Soviets did.
Today, divisions exist between Slovak, Czeh and Moravians and that is about
consolidation and national pride.
Specifically, that Magyarisation destroyed the language and culture of the
Slovaks is not as significant as other factors.

I was also part of a gov. funded project on migrants and assimilation (and
resulting mental illnesses). Basically, migrants lived in enclaves where
whole streets (including the corner shop) were populated by a homogenous
ethnic group. This resulted in no assimilation, no learning of English,
children translating school notes to their parents, shop-keepers serving in
their language, homes with minimal furniture or white goods, cut-outs of
newspapers sent from home plastered on the walls and so on. This was in the
late 70's early 80's and not in the US but in Australia -in steel working
cities, with assembly-line factories where you can get away from having to
learn the language.
Sure, when a family saved up enough and sent money home, it was 'clannish',
but eventually as the patriarch got older, children leaving home, husband
and wife moved away from their ethnic street into the English speaking
suburbs. This caused massive culture shock (especially for the women).
Assimilation policies just didn't work.
Education does. Changing the world-view. And I think that is the point you
raised.

Peter

>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
>
> .. you have to be kidding me... "The Hungarian Crown seems to have been
> tolerant of the ethnic groups
> they ruled over. As long as they caused no fuss they were allowed their
> culture and religion?" You need to read Bottu, Hodzdu, Hurbana,
> Bernolaka, Hviezdoslava, Safarika, Stefanika just to list a few. The
> Hungarian Crown oppressed and the state continues to wish have control
> over today's Slovakian territory... I guess they just wanted the High
> Tatras. Also, assimilation refers to integration of those who remained
> in the U.S. You can't measure assimilation by referring to those who
> had returned.
>
> --- On Fri, 9/9/11, Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
> To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, September 9, 2011, 12:35 AM
>
> Memam,
>
> Assimilation is to become similar. Those 57% of Slovaks that returned home
> had no desire to become Americans. So they were not assimilated.
>
> One of my own wonders on going to Slovakia was how having been ruled by the
> Hungarians for nearly a 1000 years the Slovaks were not assimilated into the
> Magyar culture. A late attempt in the 1800�s at Magyarization failed. Who
> knows what would have happened if that was attempted hundreds of years
> earlier. The Hungarian Crown seems to have been tolerant of the ethnic
> groups they ruled over. As long as they caused no fuss they were allowed
> their culture and religion.
>
> I also felt that the nature of having the Slovaks live in so many small
> villages and towns made it possible for them to keep their identity. There
> is a social and cultural bond that is more easily kept in smaller units.
>
> If you have some interest in Slovakia click on the link. It goes to Queries
> on History, Slovak Studies. You can learn some interesting things there.
>
> http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/qsonhist.html
>
> From: Nemam Meno
>
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 4:59 PM
>
> To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
>
> I am not sure how "returning home" relates to assimilation. Although, that
> number/ percentage does not surprise me. As far as the Hungarian rule, I
> couldn't agree more.
>
> --- On Thu, 9/8/11, Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net>
>
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
>
> To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: Thursday, September 8, 2011, 5:01 PM
>
> In the book Round-trip to America: The Immigrants Return to Europe,
> 1880-1930 by Mark Wyman on page 11 is a chart that gives the number by
> country of immigrants and emigrants between 1908 and 1923. What it shows is
> the Slovaks did not have a high degree of assimilation. Some 57% of the
> Slovak immigrants to the United States returned home. Magyar (Hungarian) and
> Romanian immigrants at 66% were the highest.
>
> The Slovaks when under Hungarian rule became the migrant workers of Europe
> and beyond. As early as the 1400�s the Slovaks in order to survive had to
> find work elsewhere. They were required to work 40 days for the �Crown�, but
> that did not pay enough to get them through the year. There are records that
> report that the Slovak migrant workers went beyond Europe, to Egypt and
> China. Their desire was to earn enough and then return home.
>
> From: Nemam Meno
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:09 PM
>
> To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
>
> Does anyone know if there has been some theoretical, published work on
> Slovaks' high assimilation and low national self-esteem rates?
>
> --- On Wed, 9/7/11, momsbeenscrappin <mailto:momsbeenscrappin%40yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> From: momsbeenscrappin <mailto:momsbeenscrappin%40yahoo.com>
>
> Subject: [S-R] Re: Found records and need help with a village name
>
> To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 8:00 PM
>
> Thank you John, I tried that and no luck. I've always joked that my
> grandfather just made up this name :)
>
> --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>> Hopefully these will be added in the future as well as additional
> records for Nagylevard/Velke Levare. <<<
>
> >
>
> > You can determine the availability of ALL church records at the old LDS
> web site: www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
>
> >
>
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