Even if his relationship with Talia is not master/servant it doesn't change the fact that everything Bane was doing up to that point was much more interesting when you didn't know his only motivation was to help Talia get revenge and blow up the city.

I don't see Bane coming to Gotham if not for Talia. It was her that was ensuring that the League of Shadows fulfilled its mission right after her dad died. You're supposed to believe like Bruce that it was Bane's "fascinating motivation" you learned about in the Pit until the moment when you are supposed to stop believing that because it's explained. This is Nolan's shtick going back to Following, I guess I'm so used to it. Bane first appears to be working for Daggett in Gotham (a ruse), then he appears to be his own man (a ruse), and then the truth comes out (the reveal).

Talia turned to Bane (as Ra's once turned to Bruce to do the same), a very dedicated protector man whose body got messed up the way it was because he helped her in the past. Legend was that she was the "innocent" that Bane thought was the "redemption" of all the prisoners in "hell". Bane showed his intelligence off under various random conditions when Talia wasn't around so it's clear that puppet or simple lackey is the wrong word to describe him. I remember the Entertainment Weekly writer referring to Bane as a jacked-up puppet which seemed to imply he was stupid or was somehow in the same category as Daggett. Yeah, there was a ruse but that description went too far.

He was ready to die for her when Talia hit the trigger to the bomb. Bane was a cowed man in her presence, perhaps out of love as Talia says. Only until she said the equivalent of goodbye forever and was gone did he go against himself as well on what he told Bruce in the Pit, that he would have to wait until Gotham is ashes before Bruce could die. It showed Bane was now just too scared to even guard Batman for 11 minutes and allowed Selina to kill him without coming across as a murderer.

Anyway, this mostly makes Bane a better, more interesting character in my book than say, The Joker.

Alfred: He's a mercenary. No other known names. Him and his men were behind a coup in West Africa that secured mining operations for our friend John Daggett.
Bruce Wayne: Now Daggett's brought them here.

I think it's pretty clear that Bane had his own operation going until Talia brought him in. The fact that he's implied to have men of his own makes me wonder if they were assimilated into the LOS along with him. His men were willing to die for him, and his right hand man Barsad was shown to clearly be enamored with him. Not to mention the LOS seemed decidedly less "ninja" and more like a band of mercenaries in this film. Bane was no puppet. If anything, his strong leadership skills are his greatest asset and Talia knew this.

Talia may have been behind the curtain, but she didn't have her hand up Bane's butt. There's a big difference there.

Alfred: He's a mercenary. No other known names. Him and his men were behind a coup in West Africa that secured mining operations for our friend John Daggett.
Bruce Wayne: Now Daggett's brought them here.

I think it's pretty clear that Bane had his own operation going until Talia brought him in. The fact that he's implied to have men of his own makes me wonder if they were assimilated into the LOS along with him. His men were willing to die for him, and his right hand man Barsad was shown to clearly be enamored with him. Not to mention the LOS seemed decidedly less "ninja" and more like a band of mercenaries in this film.

In BB, there's a lot of mercenary style men with the red scarves hanging around in the background at the monastery. Some of them show themselves again in Wayne Manor dressed appropriately for the party. In the flashbacks in TDKR, the guys that come down with Ra's are also in the mercenary outfits with red scarves.

Those guys that attacked the plane in the prologue seemed a lot more competent than some of those other guys we saw later in the film.

Yeah, I do recall the red scarf guys BB, so maybe that's a moot point.

Still though, Barsad was Bane's second in command and had to have known about Talia's role in the mission, yet he still showed a clear sense of admiration and loyalty to Bane. Same goes for the guy that obeyed Bane's order to go down with the plane without hesitation. The LOS's mission in the movie couldn't have worked without Bane's tactical expertise, physical prowess and natural leader tendencies. And it also couldn't have worked with Talia's infiltration of Wayne Enterprises and access to the reactor. Both had crucial roles to play, but Bane was definitely more than hired muscle. Bane would have only been a stooge if Talia was somehow running the show without him knowing, similar to how people like Daggett, Crane and the mob were used and played in the previous movies. The reality is quite the contrary, as Bane and Talia clearly had an open and clear understanding of a shared mission. I see it like them being two parents who have birthed this mission together.

I remember the Entertainment Weekly writer referring to Bane as a jacked-up puppet which seemed to imply he was stupid or was somehow in the same category as Daggett. Yeah, there was a ruse but that description went too far.

I think part of it is still people not being able to disconnect TDKR Bane from B&R Bane. 'Oh good, he's not a mindless goon like in B&R! Oh wait, he has connections with other villians. He must be a goon'

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Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat

He was ready to die for her when Talia hit the trigger to the bomb. Bane was a cowed man in her presence, perhaps out of love as Talia says. Only until she said the equivalent of goodbye forever and was gone did he go against himself as well on what he told Bruce in the Pit, that he would have to wait until Gotham is ashes before Bruce could die. It showed Bane was now just too scared to even guard Batman for 11 minutes and allowed Selina to kill him without coming across as a murderer.

Anyway, this mostly makes Bane a better, more interesting character in my book than say, The Joker.

I wouldn't say Bane was too scared, just that he wanted the satisfaction of killing Bruce. His plan originally was probably to escape with Talia and the core LOS members (Barsad, for instance) and finish off Bruce while he lies helpless and paralysed in the pit, and for Talia to reveal herself then.

I've come to the conclusion that Bane had to have been born in the Pit, or at least grew up there from a very young age. I don't see any reason why he'd lie to Bruce when he says he was born in darkness. If Bane and the prisoners were in on some conspiracy to fool Bruce and protect Talia's identity, they would have had their story straight. The prisoners could have said the child's protector made the climb...or better yet, not said a word to Bruce about anything. But no, I think Bane is being 100% truthful when he talks about not seeing the light until he was a man. There's just no good reason I can think of for him to lie about that. It also supports why he'd be so faithful to Ra's' ideals. If Bane never even saw the world until the LOS freed him, it would make him even more beholden to the organization and Ra's, so much so that it would be something he deeply valued even after being excommunicated. Closest thing he has to a family. And he'd be raw clay that they could mold, totally shaping his worldview.

Bruce is the one who jumps the gun and assumes the child is Bane. Alfred's intel had him being born in a prison, so when Bruce hears a story being told about a child born there it's only natural to assume the story was about Bane. Bruce didn't allow for the possibility of another child being born there.

I've come to the conclusion that Bane had to have been born in the Pit, or at least grew up there from a very young age. I don't see any reason why he'd lie to Bruce when he says he was born in darkness. If Bane and the prisoners were in on some conspiracy to fool Bruce and protect Talia's identity, they would have had their story straight. The prisoners could have said the child's protector made the climb...or better yet, not said a word to Bruce about anything. But no, I think Bane is being 100% truthful when he talks about not seeing the light until he was a man. There's just no good reason I can think of for him to lie about that. It also supports why he'd be so faithful to Ra's' ideals. If Bane never even saw the world until the LOS freed him, it would make him even more beholden to the organization and Ra's, so much so that it would be something he deeply valued even after being excommunicated. Closest thing he has to a family. And he'd be raw clay that they could mold, totally shaping his worldview.

Bruce is the one who jumps the gun and assumes the child is Bane. Alfred's intel had him being born in a prison, so when Bruce hears a story being told about a child born there it's only natural to assume the story was about Bane. Bruce didn't allow for the possibility of another child being born there.

I think the possibility is fairly great that he was taken there as a very young child. You don't really retain any memories before the ages of 2-4 (depends on the memory and depends on the person). If the people of the region could throw their own daughters into the pit, as the warlord did, then it's not beyond the realm of possibility to throw down a toddler boy to serve out his father's sentence.

The point of his life story was that he grew up in evil, had potential for empathy, but was punished for it and finally became evil himself.

Bruce is the one who jumps the gun and assumes the child is Bane. Alfred's intel had him being born in a prison, so when Bruce hears a story being told about a child born there it's only natural to assume the story was about Bane. Bruce didn't allow for the possibility of another child being born there.

The way that Alfred tells the story it comes off as a known legend surrounding Bane, even though it wasn't true. Talia seemed to be mostly unknown outside of the league and the pit prisoners didn't seem to equate the mercenary with Ra's if they even knew who he was. One of the things I love most about the movie is how it deals directly with legends, and not just with Batman.

The way that Alfred tells the story it comes off as a known legend surrounding Bane, even though it wasn't true. Talia seemed to be mostly unknown outside of the league and the pit prisoners didn't seem to equate the mercenary with Ra's if they even knew who he was. One of the things I love most about the movie is how it deals directly with legends, and not just with Batman.

I agree with everything you said here except that I don't think we can say for sure that Alfred's intel on Bane is false. He says he was born in raised in the prison and no one knows how he escaped the Pit, only that he was trained by Ra's once he got out. We know the second part is true, so it's very possible that the first part is too. As you said, Talia seems to be completely off the radar of the authorities (the CIA was looking for Bane, not Talia) so I'm doubting that somehow their two stories got confused.

But yes, the way the film deals with the idea of legends is one of the things I love the most about it too and really gives it that epic, chill down your spine element. Particularly the way Ra's' past is depicted in a way that has mirrors to Bruce.

What's really awesome to consider is that all the while the marketing and movie itself convinced us that the chant was all about Bane, it turns out Bruce is the only character in the film to get the chant and earn it. Talia escaped too yes, but the prisoners weren't chanting for her as they didn't want her to leave. Bruce definitely became the greatest legend of all to those prisoners.

I agree with everything you said here except that I don't think we can say for sure that Alfred's intel on Bane is false. He says he was born in raised in the prison and no one knows how he escaped the Pit, only that he was trained by Ra's once he got out. We know the second part is true, so it's very possible that the first part is too. As you said, Talia seems to be completely off the radar of the authorities (the CIA was looking for Bane, not Talia) so I'm doubting that somehow their two stories got confused.

I was talking about him escaping the pit specifically. Bane had the reputation of being the one that escaped the pit and we are led to believe this is true until Talia is revealed.

I was talking about him escaping the pit specifically. Bane had the reputation of being the one that escaped the pit and we are led to believe this is true until Talia is revealed.

Right, but Alfred says that no one knows how he got out, so it shows that there's no solid intel on that- it's not known that Ra's stormed the prison and freed Bane, only that Ra's trained him. The mystery surrounding how Bane got out is what feeds into his legend and perhaps causes others to infer that he escaped on his own (including the audience). Bane is this extremely badass mercenary who's lived through hell, so one might think, "He's the only one to escape that prison", and this leads Bruce to put two and two together (thus further misleading the audience) when he hears about a child who was born in the pit and then escaped and assumes it has to be Bane.

Basically what I'm trying to say is there's nothing to prove that Alfred's info is blatantly false or mistakingly based around Talia's life story. I suppose you can interpret it whichever you want, but right now I'm liking the interpretation that Bane was also raised in the pit and this is why he has compassion for Talia.

Very bold statement. Not sure what I would consider as my favorite or best scene yet, but the prologue was immense in IMAX. Only thing that chaps my ass, is how Bane's perfect voice/delivery was re-dubbed.

I'd forgotten just how good it was. The moodly lighting, the sound of the rushing water, Batman's anger and frustration trying to take Bane down, the sheer brutality of the blows Bane lands on Batman, Selina looking on in horror at what she's done. Of course that final epic Knightfall moment is orgasmic.

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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

This scene is easily one of my favourites in the trilogy. I think BB has the best story, TDK is the most technically impressive (in terms of execution), and TDKR has the best 'one-shot' scenes like this, Bane's Blackgate speech, Batman's return, etc. And everything about this scene in particular is pitch-perfect. The lack of music, the sounds of the ounches, give it a much more visceral feel than if they had gone the other way and made it much more slick.

I'd forgotten just how good it was. The moodly lighting, the sound of the rushing water, Batman's anger and frustration trying to take Bane down, the sheer brutality of the blows Bane lands on Batman, Selina looking on in horror at what she's done. Of course that final epic Knightfall moment is orgasmic.

I like it when Batman gets up, barely able to stand and launches himself forward to attack. He's physically spent, but emotionally not giving up. It's evocative of this panel: