I received the Jura J6 yesterday and, despite the late hour already last evening, i went through the entire set up procedure, ran hot water through the unit as instructed, brewed 2 cups of coffee and threw them out (as instructed), an additional cup and threw that out for extra caution, then drank the 4th cup to try.

it was not good.

it was not strong enough, the crema was lame, etc.

today, i researched it more and reduced the water amount to 4 ounces for the maximum size of coffee grounds (16 grams, which sounded like a LOT to me, then again, i know nothing about this). i also adjusted the fineness of the built-in burr grinder to a bit more fine, but probably half of the needed coffee was already ground by the time i completed my fineness adjustment, so it probably didn't take "full effect".

net/net, the result of today's cup of 4 ounce Cafe Crema was a tad better than yesterday's entirely lackluster cup.

that said, there is a small ray of hope in that the fineness adjustment, if taken "full effect" for the entire grinding of the entire cup of coffee's grounds, might make the coffee a bit richer (longer time to pass through).

i won't pin too much hope on that making that much of a difference. (it is really a minor change)

with that in mind, i have a feeling that i must forge forward and plan on getting a proper espresso semi-automatic.

while my current top pick is the Quick Mill Andreja Premium (at 17.5" Deep), my counter is such that there is only roughly 15" of counter DEPTH before there is a cabinet above the remaining depth of the counter. That effectively means that the water tank cannot be lifted without moving the 50-pound device each time! The Quick Mill Silvano would be fine at 13" deep.

may i ask which machine would be the most reliable, least troublesome over time, and produces rather excellent espresso so i may make my Americani?

Not really surprising that you found the super-auto to be distasteful. First, if you get a good machine you need a much better grinder. Something in the vario or higher range will work. Budget for a $600 or higher expense there. Good coffee requires the best grinder you can get. When you start using a semi-auto, remember that the proper way to make an americano is to pull a shot into water, not to run the pump for the full 8 ounces. If you make them by running the pump too long you will always be disappointed. As for machine choice, Im not really much help, I prefer levers. If you can, consider plumbing in the machine, that way you dont have to move it to refill.

i have no idea why the owner of HomeBarista essentially banned my posts! he said that posting on that site creates noise if i have already posted here. huh? he shut down my two threads. maybe there is some secret protocol within the coffee lovers' world that i don't know about? it certainly makes a person asking genuine, earnest questions feel strange about this whole thing. Does Mark Prince, who I assume owns this site, know the owner of Home Barista?

- Baratza Vario (not the Vario W) due to its extremely low grind retention in its grind chamber

Reasons:

there is a counter height issue -- besides the first 9" of counter space (measuring front to back) where there is no height restriction, after the initial 9", there is a height limit of roughly 17" (or around 19" in another part of the kitchen) due to hanging dish cabinets.

none of the largest machines, i.e. the Andrejas, can have the water tanks removed without requiring around 23"+ of height!!! my idea is that every couple of days, i would want to fully empty the water tank and rinse it out. who would want stale water sitting in the tank with only fresh water added in every couple of days? then there will always be stale water in the tank!

the Silvano has a side entry water tank.

the La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II has a FRONT water tank.

i think the Spaziale is a bit of an overkill for someone who makes only 1-2 cups of Americani per day. plus, it doesn't really sound like it would make a superior cup of espresso compared with the Silvano anyway!

it sounds like the Silvano has made a lot of intelligently thought out choices, such as PID, single water boiler with a separate thermoblock steam unit, etc. Whereas the Spaziale is a much older machine that hasn't seen these more current upgraded improvements built into their machines -- they sort of stayed put at their previous "best seller" spots without moving forward. (though i realize that the Spaziale does have a new model called the S1 Dream T)

may i ask what y'all think about these choices? am i on the right track with the key parameters being: ease of maintenance, least problems, ease of use, and enjoyment of this hobby.

Your threads were shut down due to cross-posting. Its against site policy. Espresso is a really small world. Most members on the few sites in a given country are members on all of them. There is plenty of newbie noise, people asking questions with obvious answers to us (but probably not to them), and most of the information they want is easily accessible by using the search feature. After a while, reading the same question twice a week gets old, and you start wondering why the OP can't just search rather than requesting that members regurgitate information for the umpteenth time. When that same newbie noise question is cross posted, placed word for word on another site, it causes a real annoyance for those who frequent more than one site. It can also push threads with information that people are looking for off the main page. Essentially, all the forums are not separate places, but interconnected as part of the community. You need only post once somewhere in the community. All this is explained in the forum rules. HB has some of the most lenient forum rules of any Ive visited, its not hard to follow, really. Cross-posting is also against the rules here, for the same reasons. Avoid doing it, anywhere.

With espresso, new does not always mean better. Some prefer the technology, but as a point of reference, my machine has no advanced circuitry or sensors. The most advanced bit of electronics is a pressurestat. Its easily twice my age, and is fully analog. With any of the reasonably modern machines, theres no reason to worry about how old the tech is, its hardly like computers or anything. All the machines you are considering are good choices, but I would seek out people who own these machines and ask them how they feel about them.

The Silvano is a great home espresso machine - one problem for you though - no water only option (on my model) so Americanos might be a challenge. Also, cross posting is an issue on the H-B side - CG has no formal rule for posts placed here similar to posts on other forums.

I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?

The Silvano is a great home espresso machine but my version does not have water wand for Amaricanos. Also, H-B has a problem with cross posting - CG is OK with posting a topic here that has been posted previously on another forum.

Good luck!

I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?

The Silvano is a great home espresso machine but my version does not have water wand for Amaricanos. Also, H-B has a problem with cross posting - CG is OK with posting a topic here that has been posted previously on another forum.

may i ask what your suggestion might be for the most convenient way of making my Americanos then? (since the Silvano has no water available)

i was told these things:

- that even if there were a hot water feature, the hot water coming out would be well over 200F, which according to this one person, would be overly hot for adding into the espresso in the cup at that point. i don't see why that would be the case: hot water would come from the same place as the single boiler on the Silvano, and that would be controlled by the PID, right? we'd typically set out PID at roughly 195 to 205 range?

- the person told me that since i already own a BonaVita electric kettle with a variable temperature feature, it is super easy to put a small amount of water in the BonaVita electric kettle, which is already pre-set at 176F (for my daily green tea use), so i may use that hot water, which heats up in probably 1 minute due to the small quantity needed for my Americano, to add to the espresso from the Silvano.

POTENTIAL PROBLEM: is 176F too cool to add to the "just made" espresso from the Silvano? would it be preferable to use 195F or so? if 195F is preferred over 176F, then it's a matter of pressing some buttons on the BonaVita electric kettle and it will get to that temperature, probably just 15-20 seconds longer, as the amount of water for my Americano in the kettle is tiny, maybe 10 ounces of which i might use only 4 ounces? i'm guessing here because this is my first espresso machine and i've never ever made an espresso myself before!

I use the hot water tap on my lusso with no ill effects. If it is too hot for your taste, fill the cup before prepping your shot, and don't pre-heat. By the time you finish making the shot its cooled a bit, but there is no need to cool unless you prefer it that way. I don't think that water at 176 would be so cold that it would shock the espresso, but its something to try and see.

Hot water issues:You have a really nice tea kettle. So you don't need a hot water wand so that gives you more options. The hot water is pulled from the boiler that is making steam (above boiling because it is under pressure) so it is hotter than the water you brew with on an HX. That is probably what they were talking about. (just so you understand what you are reading)

Grinder thoughts:The Vario W is really nice because it will weigh the beans for you and I really like it saves me that step. I am so glad I got it a year ago and still love it.

Tank filling thoughts:Plumb in or figure out a way to fill the tank without moving it. I did that by putting my machine in reach of my hose sprayer at the sink. I can spray the water in the tank and stop filling when I hear it get near the top. I do it every morning and on the weekend I might do it once more if we are drinking coffee all day. I have soft water and do not need to filter it. I do not believe the water is stale. I feel it is 2-3 days old max I am pretty sure with warming my cups, flushing the over heated water and brewing and cleaning the grinds off after brewing I use a third to a half a tank every morning. (2 cups weekdays and 4-6 on weekends)

If you don't care about steam then you have less requirements than I did. I wanted the steam power of an HX and the robust build of a light commercial unit. I think the Quick mill Silvano sounds good and I believe it is a ok price. For that money I personally would rather have an HX but you don't steam.

There is a lot of newbie noise here also. I posted a read this before you ask about new machines thread. I believe it has really helped and people are often posting their questions with the answers we need to help them.

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