On a complete different note on UA: Could someone please give me the line(s) that explain(s) why the orc was spared and why exactly Margolotta took him in and things?On a different forum someone else was verbally attacked for saying the book never gives the explanation, with the attack claiming he (the original poster) is just too stupid to read a book and that it is clearly spelled out in the text. Right now we are trying to prove that guy wrong as he couldn't give a pagenumber.Are we wrong and it is given very clearly in the text or is he wrong (well, he also claimed Carter attacked Andy in the end...)

LilMaibe wrote:On a complete different note on UA: Could someone please give me the line(s) that explain(s) why the orc was spared and why exactly Margolotta took him in and things?On a different forum someone else was verbally attacked for saying the book never gives the explanation, with the attack claiming he (the original poster) is just too stupid to read a book and that it is clearly spelled out in the text. Right now we are trying to prove that guy wrong as he couldn't give a pagenumber.Are we wrong and it is given very clearly in the text or is he wrong (well, he also claimed Carter attacked Andy in the end...)

No, that's not exactly what I meant, but...well, thanks. I was looking for the 'greater' reason. He claims that the books gives Margo's motive why she took the orc in, why he was spared and why she wants him to aid the others back into society (as in -why she wants them 'out of the dark'-).Got that quote by chance?

EDIT: To elaborate:In said thread the comparsion to the warcraft-story 'lord of the clans' was brought up (not by me, before anyone accuses me) as the human there had a reason to take the orc-child in (take over the world by teaching the child the heights of human civilization aka tactical warfare) while in UA no real reason is given. We assumed that -boredom- was Margo's reason before that bloke came up and accussed the whole thread of being to stupid to read and that her reason is clearly given in the text.I'm pretty certain he's a troll, though. But better safe than sorry.

LilMaibe wrote:No, that's not exactly what I meant, but...well, thanks. I was looking for the 'greater' reason. He claims that the books gives Margo's motive why she took the orc in, why he was spared and why she wants him to aid the others back into society (as in -why she wants them 'out of the dark'-).Got that quote by chance?

EDIT: To elaborate:In said thread the comparsion to the warcraft-story 'lord of the clans' was brought up (not by me, before anyone accuses me) as the human there had a reason to take the orc-child in (take over the world by teaching the child the heights of human civilization aka tactical warfare) while in UA no real reason is given. We assumed that -boredom- was Margo's reason before that bloke came up and accussed the whole thread of being to stupid to read and that her reason is clearly given in the text.I'm pretty certain he's a troll, though. But better safe than sorry.

I think the quotes I gave ARE the reason. Pastor Oates found a small colony of surviving orcs in Far Uberwald and told Margolotta about them - she decided (partly through altruism but perhaps partly also to relieve the boredom of immortality - she is a pretty ancient vampire, after all.) to see if they could be civilised. Nutt was sent to the big city to prove it one way or the other.

Typically, it was Vetinari who summed up the reason in one sentence (but then he is that type of person): - "There should be no slaves, even slaves to instinct" - and perhaps he had a selfish motive as well. Imagine Ankh-Morpork being the only state on the Disc with an army of orcs.......

Terry doesn't explicitly state all this, of course. He is too subtle a writer for that - but I think that the subtext is there.

"If there is any kind of supreme being it is up to all of us to become its moral superior."

In any case, you have proven that bloke wrong, as the text giv no clear reason as to why the orc was spared and taken in.

What 'thing'? Carpe Juglum was years before UA

I think I've proved him right. The reasons I gave in my last post were reason enough. Lady Margolotta did it as an act of charity. - And if you're trying to raise a gang to bully this fellow just because he likes UA and you don't, include me OUT.

"If there is any kind of supreme being it is up to all of us to become its moral superior."

Carpe Jugulum, yes, but... the orc was already seven when Oats freed him. The thread, btw, has decided he was wrong, as he claimed we were given a reason beyond -I want to see if I can turn them into useful members of society because I am so bored right now-

Well, for my money, Lady Margolotta is an altruistic person, believe it or not - don't forget she was the one who came up with the Black Ribboners idea, and she was the main sponsor and supporter of the members. Remember, there was a passage in The Fifth Elephant where she leaves what she was doing in order to go to a meeting, because, as she puts it, "Everyone gets so despondent if I'm not there" - or words to that effect. Add that to the fact that it's against a vampire's nature to help another vampire, as another member of the species is basically a competitor, and the picture that emerges is that of a real humanitarian, so to speak. So it's quite logical that she would want to rescue an enslaved child, even if it is an orc child, or help another species out of its terrible situation. It's just the type of person she is.

Somewhere, maybe in Carpe jugulum, was something like this : ''There are many ways to kill a vampire. Almost as many as vampire species.''.Some of them have wings (Dragon King), some of them not and can fly without them (The Magpyrs, Margolotta), some of them can turn into a bat, a lot of bats, other animals, even fog (The Magpyrs, Sally, that vampire in Witches abroad, that guy in Reaper man), the other ones do not seem to be able to fly or turn into something else (except ashes)- Otto Chriek, Maladict.Also there are vampires, who have been born as vampires (Vlad and Lacrimosa), and vampires who used to be humans (Mrs. Magpyr, that guy from Reaper man (do not know his name in English original), some young man from Carpe Jugulum), until they was bitten by a vampire. The latter ones remember the time before they become vampires. I think Margolotta is one of them and has to deal with humanity in a body of vampire.