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Struggling with Snafus

Though the underside of the roof deck is unfinished, we’ve worked out a solution.

While Paul and I are mostly really happy about the house, there are a couple of things that are not working.
The Roof Deck

Looking back at the house plans, we recently noticed that the front elevation was drawn as if the viewer was 15 feet off the ground, looking straight at the house. This point of view gives the impression that the roof is built up to the underside of the deck. The reality is that when looking at it from the ground, you can’t see the roof, but you can see the unfinished bottom of the roof deck. And because of this, the roof deck kind of looks like a spaceship alighted on our roof.

So while we were down in Florida last weekend we met with John to figure out some way to make it look more finished. One of the challenges, he explained to us, is we can’t close it in because water has to be able to drain through the decking and off the sides.

His solution: put a railing around the perimeter — similar to the top porch railing, but with the slats closer together — to eliminate the open sky issue. And underneath the deck, he’s going to install the same trellis material that’s on the bottom staircase. That will brighten up the underside. We’ll post some photos once it’s up.

The Guest Bathroom

For the Jack-and-Jill bathroom between Paul’s office and the small guest bedroom, we had chosen a beautiful granite (Brass Blue) for the countertop.

So when it was time to pick tile for the floor and the tub surround, we stayed with the blue theme: a light slate blue for the floor and a gray-white tile for the tub surround, with a light blue marble border.

But when Paul and I walked through the house last weekend, what had been installed in the tub surround could only be described as brown.

“I hate this tile,” I said to Paul. “It’s wrong.” It was nothing like what we had ordered, and even though it had already been installed, I talked to John and explained why we had to rip it out and redo it.

The next day we went back to the tile store to figure out what had gone wrong with the order and to find the correct-color tiles. They did not have the gray-white tiles on hand. Since we were under pressure because of the construction schedule, we had to go with a light blue tile that they had in stock. While we were able to get new tile pretty quickly, we’re still working with the store to figure out who should pay for the mistake.

It only added salt to the wound that ripping the tile down was not easy. The wallboard got torn in the process and had to be reinstalled before the new tile could go up.

I admit it: In this situation, being so far away turned a small problem into a big one. If I had been living around the corner, I would have seen the tile when it was delivered and would have noticed that it wasn’t what I had ordered.

As it is, the problem cost us time and money (how much will depend on the outcome of the tile investigation). But it does have a happy ending: The bathroom will look great.

Please, don’t let John dictate the design solutions. Maybe Greg Huddy has a good idea. Has anyone checked the plans? Maybe there was something called out in the detail drawings or cross section. The railing thing sounds like it could be a big mistake.

Please, please, please don’t use anymore of that “lattice” anywhere. It’s insubstantial looking and busy. Vinyl is never satisfactory for trim and I’m pretty sure that’s vinyl. Which reminds me, remember the brief discussion about green materials? Seems like loads’o’vinyl on this exterior

For the person who wondered what the name of the protrusions (now lost, along with lots of other details) under the window bump — they’re brackets. You use them so that the window looks as though something besides a sky hook is holding it up.

I love the color of the soffits and rafter tails as a color — but the darkness really hides the detail. And since that’s one of the few details we have left, that seems like a shame.

When John fixes the T-111 have him put cheek-pieces on the windows, rather than running a narrow strip of T-111 up the side of the bump.

I think the shutters are a big mistakes — but I can’t stand any shutter that won’t actually shut, so I’m clearly loonytunes on the subject. I think they’re particularly unfortunate on the windows above the bump because they squish it down even further.

That is too bad about the tile — one thing that might help for finishes once you’re gone is creating boards for each room with all the parts called out, paint chips, and samples where you can get them.

That lattice material will look out of place and cheesy from the start. After that it may well sag.

Ask Paul to explain why he can’t finish the underside of the roof deck in the same way as the ceiling of the first floor outdoor gallery. There are decking boards above it that ceiling, same as on the roof deck. Anything other than a ceiling to match what you have over your front door will look half, er, hearted.

Elevation drawings don’t provide any perspective into terms of using one particular point of view. It’s a flat projection without the distortion of perspective. Because it’s not a drawing depicting what one sees from any particular point, it can be use to measure from one point on the drawing to another. As I mentioned months ago, a street level perspective drawing by your architect would have provided you the perspective you needed.

“Struggling with Snafus … Looking back at the house plans, we recently noticed that the front elevation was drawn as if the viewer was 15 feet off the ground, looking straight at the house. This point of view gives the impression that the roof is built up to the underside of the deck.”
First the “snafu” is not that the “viewer was 15 feet off the ground”. Elevation drawings do not have a “point of view” – they are non-perspective drawings. If you look at the left elevation, the roof deck was designed to meet or come very close to the roof. The “snafu” was changing the plans to simplify construction or to cut costs without considering how the changes affect the overall design.
There is a similar potential “snafu” in the making if you made a decision to “put a railing around the perimeter” and “install the same trellis material” without at least looking at some drawings so you have some idea what this added gingerbread will look like.

I’m not sure that the crossed lattice John has installed on the front stairs will look right as an underside for the roof deck. If the goal is to mimic the beadboard found on the underside of the porch roof, then perhaps you may want to consider installing louvered slats, similar to what is seen in shutters. If oriented properly it would resemble beadboard when seen from the street, and, since it is angled, would also allow drainage. The main downside is that each one of the slats would have to be nailed on individually-more work compared to buying a lattice at Lowes and slapping it on the underside. Note that if water is going to drain down from the deck onto the backside of the covering you might want to make sure that this area is not going to rot. Of course, you usually ignore all our suggestions (ref Susan (kitchen), Mike (plantings), Robyn (CBS) etc. – someone want to compile a list?) and John Agnelli will probably do whatever the heck he likes, but at least _I_ like my idea!

All the more reason why you should have had someone on site (decorator, designer) to watch over this project for you. Many people here advised you waaaaay back at the beginning of this blog to do this. But, as usual, they were ignored.

Shutters are solid Fypon a take off of PVC. The windows can withstand and are required to withstand greater negative pressures then a shutter. Hurricane shutters are very costly. and give no protection if there not closed when a hurricane or storm approaches. If your away its all over. The Impact window is slightly more expensive then the shutters but they are always ready for a storm, plus they keep the house absolutely QUIET. The garage door glass and all doors are impact glass. The windows tilt in for easy cleaning on all floors. You can buy cheaper Impact windows but I won’t. Never got a bad report on these windows but like every thing else a little service after years in the Sun and Salt should be done when cleaning.

What happened to John’s plan to “… install fiberglass backing (used on boats) below the flooring planks on the upper deck”? As I remember that was intended to assist in draining water in a way I didn’t understand. Words fail me when I try to express my feelings about the installation of trellis under the deck. Does the reduced deck size (Huddy plan was for 12′ x 12′) of 12′ x 9′ play a role in how the deck looks against the roof and its blue sky effect? I am afraid the railing will simply not improve appearances at all but hope I am wrong.

I think the roof deck problem needs a little more thought. Your solution sounds like it was made on the fly with not enough time to consider alternatives. The underside of your roof deck is the ceiling of your second floor porch, and perhaps should be treated just like the porch ceilings below it. If that’s not possible for drainage reasons, maybe there is a way to screen that underside altogether. This could be a front treatment only, allowing for water to drain through the deck and off the roof behind it. As for the use of railing as a screen, that sounds like you will be adding a very busy element to an already busy facade. Call your architect to get some help with this one. This is not like paint or tile color. This is structural and affects the appearance of your house in a major way.

Too bad about the tile. It’s one of those things that is SO hard to change.

I would probably have lost it with your general contractor over the problems you are describing, particularly given the cost of your house. I thought it was the general contractor’s responsibility to make sure it was done to your specifications!

The drawing is called an elevation. It is flat so the contractor doesn’t have to contend with perspective in construction documents.

Exactly, what happened to the fiberglass pan? So you could finish the underside like a porch ceiling??

Paint the underside the same white as your porch ceiling and be done. I have better solutions but you don’t care. No lattice – you’ll create wasp and bird nest habitat, besides the fact it will look cheap.

I am more concerned that you don’t have a gutter along the roof edge at this porch. You’ll get tremendous water splash off the roof onto your walls, doors and windows. Those vertical elements will be dirty always. You won’t be able to have the windows open in any sort of rain at all.

As for the tile, don’t feel bad. Something like that happens in all projects. The contractor (and sub-constractor) should check all deliveries against your selection. Even so, they get through. It happens. They’ve ripped tile out before and they will again.

This entry to the blog is just the sort of disingenuous post that both infuriates me and keeps me coming back. “…we recently noticed. . . you can see the unfinished bottom of the roof deck. And because of this, the roof deck kind of looks like a spaceship alighted on our roof.”

Some of us have been wondering about how this area would be finished ever since the spaceship landed on your roof!

I simply cannot believe that you have not noticed this prior to February. . .

I hope John’s plan works, sounds funky, but may look/work better than it sounds. Can’t wait to see.

Thanks for explaing about the impact resistant windows. We went with roll down hurricane shutters since we are away from the house for long periods of time. We simply shut them every time we leave town and in conjunction with out alarm system they give us peace of mind.

Having experience with ordering items to be installed, I don’t think the tile store will be, or should be, responsible for the costs involved with it having been installed/ripped out due to a wrong color. It’s up to the “ground crew” within your contracting team, either the builder or tile setter or administrator to John, whoever was designated, to assure that it was the correct tile. If you forgot to designate someone, then you will be held responsible for not having checked the color, regardless of where you live.

If someone on your job neglected to check it, then you have to evaluate what your position will be in terms of making up the costs. You’ll want to weigh any “freebies/extras” that have been tossed your way, which should have an impact on how much of a hard line you’ll want to have to demand costs back or not, or somewhere in between.

This is how I see it. You can’t say you “didn’t know you had to check it.” :( It’s not the worst thing, it will work out. Don’t make it bigger than it needs to be.

Dear Debbie R. post #11,
the house and flying whatever deck look just lovely in your rendition with the plantings. Can you really plant that many palm trees on a small site (roots etc)? the bottom of the deck should be left natural like the rest of the ceilings of the decks and over time the elements will make it look better. lattice should be outlawed.

I see that the architect’s original plan called for something that he calls “horizontal lattice” in a few places. That is not the same as the stuff that has been (and apparently will be) used on this job.

We have horizontal lattice at our beach house, sort of enclosing the pilings/lower level (rather than a garage, which no one has). This is merely pieces of siding applied horizontally with a small space between each one for ventilation. It looks much better than the lattice that is a crosshatch – ugh – and which Huddy probably never intended to be used on A and Ps house.

I think on my house, this horizontal element also helps to visually reduce the height of the structure.

It’s interesting to note how some of the details have been lost. David mentioned an important point. The right side elevation shows the deck just slightly above the roof. Because “the water has to drain through”, the deck is now almost two feet above the roof. Florida has some pretty heavy rains, but not quite that bad. Now it’s a big revelation that there’s a large gap between the roof and the deck and, to fix this oversight, hokey solutions are being proposed. The best fix is probably just to paint the underside of the deck and hope it’s not as noticeable. Just don’t paint it white. That will really accentuate this thing.

Posters here are complaining about the railings, but part of the problem is that the little details were lost. The elevations show small square posts anchoring the railings at both the second floor and the roof deck. These are important visual elements. The railing elements then become infill. I don’t know if it was cost cutting, ignorance or arrogance, but it’s rather a shame.

And has anyone considered what the lights beside the garage doors will look like once they’re installed? The junction boxes look like they’re placed a little high. Hopefully the lights won’t be higher than the top of the garage door trim. That would just look wrong. Hopefully they’ll be small, tasteful lights that hang down below the junction boxes. Hopefully I’m not predicting the future again.

PLEASE: NO LATTICE ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE DECK. That will surely put the ‘cheesy’ label on your home. It will look like someone’s ‘handy brother-in-law’ came over one weekend to ‘fix it’. Either paint it the dark green trim color (less expensive solution), or even better finish it like the underside of a porch deck with beadboard or similar (more expensive solution).
The ‘open sky’ issue is not an issue at all; don’t waste time installing more railing which will not be integrated with the design at all.
Tile issue: it stinks but is fixable and the cost to re-do it will be quickly forgetable. Especially after you get your first year’s utility & maintenance bills (A/C,water,taxes,gardener,pool guy, etc)!

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They've found an idyllic tiny town in Florida, they've bought a piece of land and now Paul B. Brown and Alison Davis are setting out to build their dream house. How hard can it be, they wonder, even though they live 1,500 miles away, they've never built a home before and they don't know anything about architects, builders, local zoning laws or financing? On this blog for Great Homes, they recount their successes and failures and will chronicle their adventures to come.