Up to my butt. Ha. Being a rookie I tend to listen and learn on such threads but I'll add my .02. I started out using the tapered Big Game leaders with a loop to the tippit. First time to wet a line last April my cast was collapsing, unlike what it had been doing in the backyard. Decided to try something different to compensate for my casting deficencies. I had picked up the Kreh/Sosin knots book and figured I'd try thier recommendation - butt looped to tippet with bimini. I used 30# Rio hard mono for the butt - figured it would lever the fly over. Used 12 or 16# floro for the tippet. Seemed like kind of a waste tying a bimini with floro but being a knot knitwit I was/am paranoid about knotting the floro to mono. This worked out ok. One day during week of the fourth I stood on a bayside flat surrounded by stripers for about an hour with little more than cursory inspection of my fly. Again, to compensate for my incompetence I experimented some more with the leader. Increased the length to 10 or 11 feet and tapered down to 10 # floro. I also changed the butt - 2 1/2 feet of 30#, 1 1/2 feet of 24#, both the Rio hard mono then loop to 16# floro (bimini) 12# then 10#. I tied the floro sections together with an Orvis knot (read about that in Taboury's book) - compact and sound. This combo was something of a revelation for me. My casting improved and I went two days without a casting knot. Typical for me was a casting knot about every 10 to 20 casts. I think what really happened was, I was able to fish on consecutive days and the practice helped plus concerns about having to remove casting knots from the 10# floro forced a little discipline in my casting.

I used that configuration the rest of the season, shortening up with the sinker. I'd like to get rid of the loops - guess its about time to practice some knots.

Well Fred, having seen you with the flyrod bent all season I'd have to say you were doing something right!

Personally, I don't use any loops at all. It's a bit of a pain but I carry enough maxima pocket spools to tie anything I need right there on the water. The butt comes loose just about never, the taper is replaced occasionally but the tippet is undergoing continual surgery. I just use blood knots for everything after the nail knot or epoxy splice to the fly line. If I could figure out how to get rid of the bumps from blood knots, I'd get rid of them too.

Store bought leaders solve that problem but I like the ability to design my own not to mention the fact that tying one's own offers significant savings. Actually, when it comes to trout leaders I usually just buy.

Everyone has their preference for these things I guess.

Hey Fred, I don't know the Orvis knot and couldn't find it in "Tabory's Inshore FF" - are you looking at another book?