Navigation

The Rational Response Squad is a group of atheist activists who impact society by changing the way we view god belief. This site is a haven for those who are pushing back against the norm, and a place for believers of gods to have their beliefs exposed as false should they want to try their hand at confronting us.

Buy any item on AMAZON, and we'll use the small commission to help end theism, dogma, violence, hatred, and other irrationality. Buy an Xbox 360 -- PS3 -- Laptop -- Apple

My proof

Posted on: May 28, 2012 - 5:39am

Teleco2

Posts: 1

Joined: 2012-05-28

Offline

My proof

Hello, I stumbled across your site while posting my article to other sites and wanted to provide to your site as well. I use to be completely skeptical and still am very skeptical but I definitely have a different perspective on things simply because I know what happened to me and I know what I experienced. I originally had the feelings that I wanted to share and then I happen to come across this blog of someone asking if people believed in spirits and angels and demons, etc... so I replied. I'm not a holy roller, I'm actually an simple engineer by trade that basically stays impartial to things and tends to follow the facts and my own experiences rather than hear say or "stories". I've included my response and what occured to me below: ======== I registered because I couldn't help myself but to respond to this post. I've never "publicly" said this per se', I've told a very few friends and I mean a very few however I'm getting older and the older I get the more I feel I need to share what happened to me so that at least others have what I think is good information. The incident I'm referring to happened when I was 18 years old I’m now 42 (I think, I don't keep count:P). Either way this event changed my life forever, at least my perspectives on life forever for sure. I didn't believe in ghosts or spirits or whatever and although I had been raised as a Christian I was at the point in my life I was really doubting everything. I had been lied to by soooo many people I basically didn't trust anything. Well long story short the incident all occurred in my girlfriends mom's house with me, my girlfriend, her mother and her mother’s boyfriend present. We had all situated ourselves each standing in a separate corner of the kitchen which was basically square. My girlfriend was directly opposite from me and her mom's boyfriend was opposite her mother. Her mother and I were standing in the part of the kitchen that basically had a hallway kind of go thru it from the main part of the house to the "mother in law" suite on the other side of the kitchen by her mom. It all started when my girlfriend’s mother began talking about how the mother in law suite part of the house has felt funny ever since her parents passed away. Next thing you know they all are stepping in and out of the room saying how weird if felt. Well after a tad bit of pressure, mainly not wanting to seem like a wuss, I went ahead and tried it. Well I didn't get to step all the way thru the doorway. As I entered the doorway it was like I was stepping into that space portal thing you see on TV that warps people around to different planets. It almost felt like I was stepping into water but not water but waterfied static electricity, not sure how else to describe it. Either way, like I said I didn't make it all the way thru, it felt so weird that I basically back peddled right back out as soon as I felt the difference and although amazed had no desire to do it again. Well we all meandered as we talked back to our original positions continuing to talk about it all being somewhat amazed at how true her mother had been about it. Well, all of a sudden the conversation came to a lull, well not really a lull, it was just a speck of silence, in my mind we were all still kind of absorbing what we had all just experienced but my girlfriend went to say something at that moment and I had immediately looked up to see what she had to say but as I did all her words and actions were all in slow motion! I was like what the heck and about the same time I said that I felt it. Whatever it was it was just inside the doorway of the room we were just stepping in and out. I couldn't see anything at all but it was there, I could feel it with every ounce of me but you couldn't see anything at all. I could tell her mother felt it too by her actions, she somewhat startled, turned towards the door entrance that was just to her right. As soon as all this happened this thing came bursting out of the room at an unbelievable speed and I could tell it was focused on me. It didn't come directly at me but its focus was on me for sure. As it blew out of the door way and past my girlfriend’s mother, my girlfriends mother started to faint. I remember all this vividly and even remember having the feeling that I wanted to try to catch her so she didn't hurt herself but this thing was just too threatening and I couldn't help myself but to try to defend myself. I threw my hands up in a defensive stance like you are taught in karate; my father had taught me when I was a kid. As my hands went up and into this stance this thing had already blew right on past me. I immediately turned almost automatically at least without thinking and shifted my stance to try to defend from the other direction. Well this thing blew back past me again in the other direction the same direction it came from originally. I didn’t even really get fully turned around even and found myself trying to spin back around again to defend from the original direction but this thing like vanished. It was like it absorbed into the darkness of the room almost like it opened a door and went thru and went to a completely different dimension. I don't know how else to try to explain it. As I was finishing spinning back around and feeling this thing like fade away almost or leave I should say. I no longer felt threatened per se' and I instantly looked at the mother and remember thinking I wanted to say did you feel that!!! Which I already knew she had felt everything but I didn't want to sound like the crazy guy either so without hesitation or even thinking about it I simply said, “why were you fainting?” but with a shocked and confused look I am sure. Immediately upon me saying this, my girlfriend responded, rather than the mother, saying (and I could instantly tell it was being directed towards me) why were you fainting!? I looked at my girlfriend and sure enough she's looking directly at me and her mom's boyfriend speaks up confirming yep you both were fainting. I turned to the mother and as I did she said I seen you fainting too. At that point I couldn't hold back any more, I somewhat freaked out wanting to know what everyone else had experienced and basically what they all had seen. They all basically felt and seen the same things except her mom says she seen me fainting and I know I saw her fainting but we both seen ourselves throw our hands up in self-defense basically and even both seen ourselves turn as the thing went past us and then back again. The mother felt everything exactly as I did and had the same feelings from what I understood from her I remember and my girlfriend and her mom’s boyfriend both seen us both start to faint basically then come back out of it after we were just about to collapse to the floor they both said. You can take this any way you want and I know the questions you are asking because I've been there but I can say for 100 percent certainty that there is something out there more than we know. It irks me and actually scares the heck out of me every time I think about it because I hear of all these people getting visited by god or angels or whatever and here I was visited by something I hope was not God or god associated because I’m sure that all it wanted to do was put fear in me and from what I have heard from others stories they feel peace and security when in the presence of God. If it were a good entity shouldn’t I have felt comfort and peace and if it was a good entity am I in big trouble? I do not know and I really wish I did obviously and that I understood it all but I guess I’ll find out soon enough. I will say I do also know that whatever that thing was specifically that it had a mind of its own…or at least was being controlled by something with a mind of its own. It was a conscious entity is probably the best way to put it. I hope this information gets out to people who are searching for answers and especially those that don’t believe anything I was basically at that point too but after this I do feel 100 plus percent convinced that there is a “spirit” world that we are unaware of in our normal consciousness and whatever you decide ultimately I think in this case it would be best to error on the side of caution, for your own sake. - From one human to another. Thank you for the opportunity to share my experience, this is not a made up story, it definitely occured and if anyone wanted to test me on it simply go find my ex and her mother and her mothers ex ( I think, maybe they've gotten back together since I don't now) and let them tell you what they experienced. I haven't seen them pretty much since the incident and the only time after the event we really talked about it was the night that it occured. They may have spoken more about it but I never got a chance really to speak with them anymore about it. I may have mentioned it with my girlfriend at the time but no serious discussions. I have not seen hide nor hair of them in I'm fairly sure its been 20 years or more for sure. I don't want anyone thinking I'm trying to use this to get back in their life or anything, if thats what I wanted I would simply hunt them down and work to get back in their life. I've thought of trying to reach out to them to dicuss it further but so far haven't. I'm fairly sure I still remember the address of the house and I know for sure where it is located. At least if its still there which I"m sure it is, I haven't been in that area in a long time but it was a ritzy section of our town and was a fairly newer home so I expect it is still there and for the most part nothings probably changed with it. I can say though I've thought about it a lot over my life and I can't say for sure if I would ever go back in the house. I mean I do have this urge to know more about it all but at the same time I also know for a fact that, I, by myself, have no way of protecting myself from whatever it was and there is no one at least as a humanoide on this earth that would be able to stop it. You couldn't see anything and it moved so fast that no matter what you did you were always looking or facing where it had been rather than where it was if it was moving. I've prided myself on being able to handle myself in a physical situation. I've been on my own since I was 13 and was pushed into an environment where I had to fight for survival so I've had my share of fights and have went up against opponents much much larger than me. Now I'm not a holy roller and I don't classify myself as others do like I'm a Chrisitian or Muslim or whatever, I'm simply a human... I can say though for the most certainty, I pray there is a God and that he is in control and that he loves me and forgives me for all the bad things I've ever done because I never ever want to have to face off against whatever that thing was... Sincerely, Leroy

Nice story. There's nothing in my books explaining it, but there's also nothing saying it's impossible. Could you please provide some more detail? You saw something moving really fast, there and back again. How did that entity look like or might look like? Was it translucent or not? Humanoid or not? What height, or was it taller because it hovered above ground? What color did it have? Could it have been a color of clothes, skin, fur, silver space coverall, or just a shade?

I have seen and felt a plenty of weird things myself, (looks like I have a talent of bumping into them) but nothing like that. None of the entities or phenomena I ever saw were in hurry or rushing around and most of all resembled simply humans (with clothes or robes as far as I could tell) just ethereal. It seems you experienced something weird even for weird people's standards.

As for thinking of God on such an ocassion, I think it's unnecessary. Look at the nature. Look at the diversity of life, thousands and millions of species of all sizes, colors, life styles, including countless kinds and cultures of people. The world is large and complex and gods or angels aren't likely candidates to meet. It's just your Christian upbringing that tells you God and his angels are right behind the corner. But in reality the top management doesn't inspect people's kitchens.

First off, please do us all a favor with your next post by breaking up the giant wall of text.

Secondly, delusions in mass DO happen, not because the event is real, but through the very mundane power of suggestion. If you want to believe, or see something badly enough, you will, even when you aren't aware at the time. Your subconscious combined with societal input can create very flawed perceptions.

But there have never been or ever will be any such thing as ghosts. Humans can spread their delusions very easily, and claiming "You don't understand, I was a huge skeptic until then". You can be the smartest person in the world and still get suckered into a delusion.

Human perception is notoriously flawed.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."ObamaCheck out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Thank you and I appreciate you taking the time to read it. When I originally posted it...it did have paragraphs and such. I'm only responding because of how nice you seem Luminon and I think you accept the fact I'm not trying to shove nothing down anyones throat just sharing an experience. In response to what it looked like, or even what I thought it looked like, because it was comletely transparaent. I don't remember seeing an outline or fuzziness or color or nothing. Once I felt it's presence and I turned to look at its direction there was nothing but I could definitely feel it. I felt that it was approx 5 ft tall and now looking back it seems as if I get the impression it was hunched over a little bit but I can't say that for sure because I couldn't see anything at all. I did feel threatened, and up until it basically disappeared back into the room I felt fear and danger but at the same time it was wierd like it couldn't touch me even though it wanted too badly. Like I had a little shield or something that I couldn't see around me fairly close and the thing was like a wind of energy that almost probe me at lightening speed. I know back then when it happened I felt that it was really trying to just put fear into me because it couldn't physically touch me or something but now looking back it seems like it was almost probing me looking for a crack to get too.

Secondly, delusions in mass DO happen, not because the event is real, but through the very mundane power of suggestion.

This is certainly possible, but I'd say suggestion isn't as fast, authentic and original as a real event. So we can distinguish it. Usually it takes people prepared to believe or a skilled manipulator with the crowd.

Brian37 wrote:

If you want to believe, or see something badly enough, you will, even when you aren't aware at the time. Your subconscious combined with societal input can create very flawed perceptions.

And where does this wanting to believe come from? Observations may happen so suddenly and unexpectedly, that we do not think if we want them or not. Why would everyone want to believe? What about the desire to not be proven a fool? Or marked as a fool by default? What about a desire to be certain, to make precise observations? To know the actual truth, whatever it turns out to be? To be the one who nails down this mystery? These are pretty strong desires too.

Brian37 wrote:

But there have never been or ever will be any such thing as ghosts. Humans can spread their delusions very easily, and claiming "You don't understand, I was a huge skeptic until then". You can be the smartest person in the world and still get suckered into a delusion.

Yes, it is true that even smartest people may get deluded, but this is because they stop thinking critically in some situations. Their emotional attachment switches off the smartness. But how can we become emotionally attached to something we never saw before? Ghosts aren't beautiful women, we don't fall in love with them instantly.

Btw, claiming absolutes isn't smart in any situation, even when it comes to ghosts. Maybe on some planets certainity is considered a mental disorder. We live in an iinvisible and intangible universe with a small fraction of this visible, tangible matter which is a complete anomaly, as far as the rest of the universe is concerned. Maybe we should change our thinking accordingly.

Brian37 wrote:

Human perception is notoriously flawed.

What is exactly flawed about human perception? If we are capable of driving a car without mowing people down, then for all practical purposes our perception is good enough. Sure, we miss all the microscopic stuff, but that's not an argument if we're looking for human-sized strange phenomena.

Hello, I stumbled across your site while posting my article to other sites and wanted to provide to your site as well. I use to be completely skeptical and still am very skeptical but I definitely have a different perspective on things simply because I know what happened to me and I know what I experienced. ...

Jumping from unexplained to god is a leap that would be useful in this Summer's Olympics.

Let me take a guess or three. The house was old enough to have been built before city water or had once had a well. The strange room was an add-on to the house. If those are correct then the extra room was built over an old well. And the water tapped into a spring rather than ground water. It would have been considered a good well or reliable well and there was griping over switching to city water. Of course the mother-in-law it was built for was deceased and not used by anyone at the time.

If all wrong jump to the next post and pretend I didn't write the rest. But do not jump from, You could be right, in response to He was Right! when telling the story the next time. Do not work elements of the following into the story. That is so very easy as it is the way our memories work.

There are several unexplained phenomena associated with moving water. It does feel different being near moving water and potentially connected wtih ionization of the air or ground, that static electricity feeling.

However going from a feeling to an omnious explanation for the feeling is a suggestion (power of) into the mix. Why did it feel "alive"? Our heads conjecture alive as the default. It is safer that way. Something falls off a shelf. Our first thought is it was knocked off the shelf. The first thing to do after hearing a bump in the night is eliminate the possibility of an intruder, again safer this way.

What you experienced and what she experienced could have been properly tested by separately writing it down before discussing it. You report a lull, a nodding off, was it late and night and everyone was tired and that talking was keeping you awake? (Preferably sober as alcohol suppresses imagination and dreaming. A drunk reporting a UFO is more reliable than a sober person.) You reported and she concurred as you tell it. That is not comparing stories. A woman took a defensive posture as you did? Not the way women usually respond therefore odd she did as you did or did she just agree with you?

The conversation before the event sort of set the stage for the event. Was there anything other than, "It feels funny"? Anything on what it felt like as a further source of suggestion? Suggestion not to feel something but in how to interperet what was felt.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

Secondly, delusions in mass DO happen, not because the event is real, but through the very mundane power of suggestion.

This is certainly possible, but I'd say suggestion isn't as fast, authentic and original as a real event. So we can distinguish it. Usually it takes people prepared to believe or a skilled manipulator with the crowd.

Brian37 wrote:

If you want to believe, or see something badly enough, you will, even when you aren't aware at the time. Your subconscious combined with societal input can create very flawed perceptions.

And where does this wanting to believe come from? Observations may happen so suddenly and unexpectedly, that we do not think if we want them or not. Why would everyone want to believe? What about the desire to not be proven a fool? Or marked as a fool by default? What about a desire to be certain, to make precise observations? To know the actual truth, whatever it turns out to be? To be the one who nails down this mystery? These are pretty strong desires too.

Brian37 wrote:

But there have never been or ever will be any such thing as ghosts. Humans can spread their delusions very easily, and claiming "You don't understand, I was a huge skeptic until then". You can be the smartest person in the world and still get suckered into a delusion.

Yes, it is true that even smartest people may get deluded, but this is because they stop thinking critically in some situations. Their emotional attachment switches off the smartness. But how can we become emotionally attached to something we never saw before? Ghosts aren't beautiful women, we don't fall in love with them instantly.

Btw, claiming absolutes isn't smart in any situation, even when it comes to ghosts. Maybe on some planets certainity is considered a mental disorder. We live in an iinvisible and intangible universe with a small fraction of this visible, tangible matter which is a complete anomaly, as far as the rest of the universe is concerned. Maybe we should change our thinking accordingly.

Brian37 wrote:

Human perception is notoriously flawed.

What is exactly flawed about human perception? If we are capable of driving a car without mowing people down, then for all practical purposes our perception is good enough. Sure, we miss all the microscopic stuff, but that's not an argument if we're looking for human-sized strange phenomena.

I is not that complicated. I wanted to believe so badly that a girl named Ann, if all I would do is express my "love"(hormones) to her she would have me. Religion and politics are no fucking different. Reality isn't a mystery. Ego and hormones and dogmatism are the enemy of thinking. The counter balance to it is the cold water of questioning and scrutiny.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."ObamaCheck out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

I can say though for the most certainty, I pray there is a God and that he is in control and that he loves me and forgives me for all the bad things I've ever done because I never ever want to have to face off against whatever that thing was... Sincerely, Leroy

to pray to god that he exist. It sounds to me like stage 2 of Booker's fantasy cycle....

"When we embark on a course of action which is unconsciously driven by wishful thinking, all may seem to go well for a time, in what may be called the “dream stage”. But because this make-believe can never be reconciled with reality, it leads to a “frustration stage” as things start to go wrong, prompting a more determined effort to keep the fantasy in being."

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck

I is not that complicated. I wanted to believe so badly that a girl named Ann, if all I would do is express my "love"(hormones) to her she would have me. Religion and politics are no fucking different.

My theoretical study of dating says, that expressing our feelings to a girl is one of the worst mistakes we can do. Immediately afterwards the girl will want some "space" to "think things over" and soon after she'll condemn you to "being just friends". The secret is, that saying how you feel is bad, it's like spoiling the surprise, betraying the movie's plot in advance. Feelings are the girl's job, she is supposed to feel them, figure them out and name them aloud, after which we men are finally allowed to say "I love you too".

Brian37 wrote:

Reality isn't a mystery. Ego and hormones and dogmatism are the enemy of thinking. The counter balance to it is the cold water of questioning and scrutiny.

As for the topic, most of strange phenomena I ever saw just happened. Unexpected, undesired, uninvited. I just minded my own business (sober, awake) and the mystery came to me. I've seen so many weird things, that a few less or more doesn't make much difference, I don't care either way. So it's not like I chase after phenomena and can't take disproving them. I can afford being critical and disregarding non-conclusive observations. It's all about observation, without thinking, without interpreting what may or may not be. Don't let thinking change the memory, focus on memorizing it exactly as it was. Only then we can start with scrutiny.

Reality is a huge mystery and we know just a little part of it, so we shouldn't be overly sure of what is or isn't possible. What we observe may have an explanation we already know, but it can be also something we don't know yet. The latter case is valuable, because it promises new discoveries.

This may be a little too much to say, but nevermind, it looks like some skeptics (like you) distrust themselves and the world due to their personal problems. If female logic can be figured out, it may give you hope that the rest of the world makes sense too.