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Re: This team needs to be blown up

And I'm a Pacers fan because I've been a fan since I was a little kid back home and I was watching games a 2 o'clock in the morning, I even had a Reggie Miller poster in my door so stop with the "you are not a true fan bs because you don't want to spend money in a mediocre team".

I didn't say that. You just did though.

All I said was if you think they intentionally mislead you I can't understand why you would want to remain a fan.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Pau Gasol has a nice mid range J as well. It's just that he doesn't seem to hit it as often in the last few seasons. Also, David West is a good passer. Not at Pau's level but he is good.

However, I don't disagree with what you say. It's true that David has a better mid range and Pau is a better passer.

The reason I disagree with you is because David West seems to operate so much better in the interior. He can shoot the mid range but he is much better in the post, imo.

I think that the Lakers need a player with 3 point range at the 4. Someone like Ryan Anderson.

Anderson is good, but too one dimensional. I think the Lakers need an athletic PF who can run the floor and defend, and also operate out of the high post. Josh Smith would be a great fit, but so too would an Ibaka or KG (not as athletic but great defender and J shooter) or even a Horford..maybe.

I know they wanna run D'Antoni's system but it's shown it hadn't worked in the playoffs. They need to have the size to rebound but the athleticism to match the younger/smaller teams. If they could get a legit 3pt shooter to go along with a new post player, I think they'd be in good shape.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Anderson is good, but too one dimensional. I think the Lakers need an athletic PF who can run the floor and defend, and also operate out of the high post. Josh Smith would be a great fit, but so too would an Ibaka or KG (not as athletic but great defender and J shooter) or even a Horford..maybe.

I know they wanna run D'Antoni's system but it's shown it hadn't worked in the playoffs. They need to have the size to rebound but the athleticism to match the younger/smaller teams. If they could get a legit 3pt shooter to go along with a new post player, I think they'd be in good shape.

And yes I'm a laker fan as well

I agree that Anderson is too one dimensional. But the Lakers desperately seem to need a 3 point shooter. Or they could get an athlete that can pass at the 4 and replace MWP with a sharp shooter a la Korver

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I think it's naive to consider fandom a choice... believe me I'd much rather not be a Pacers fan. I don't believe our ownership has what it takes to bring in the right GM and stand behind him financially and otherwise to demand the team always be striving toward championship quality. Who here wouldn't trade the Simons for Mark Cuban? Seriously, its not even a question.

Unfortunately when you've grown up as a lifelong die hard you don't really get to choose so easily. Sure, I can say out loud, I'm not a Pacers fan... I live next to Memphis, it'd be great if I could say alright, for now on, I'm a Grizzlies fan. That's just not really how it works, you can't just flip a switch and stop loving something. Sure, hopefully, if we continually get lied to and they continually show no effort to create a championship product, over time, I hope I can move on. Find a team worthy of my dedication, a team who continually tries to win it all through the use of strategic long term planning instead of self defeating short sighted fixes for each season. I'm just not there yet, and I bet that resonates with more than a few fans out there.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I think it's naive to consider fandom a choice... believe me I'd much rather not be a Pacers fan. I don't believe our ownership has what it takes to bring in the right GM and stand behind him financially and otherwise to demand the team always be striving toward championship quality. Who here wouldn't trade the Simons for Mark Cuban? Seriously, its not even a question.

Unfortunately when you've grown up as a lifelong die hard you don't really get to choose so easily. Sure, I can say out loud, I'm not a Pacers fan... I live next to Memphis, it'd be great if I could say alright, for now on, I'm a Grizzlies fan. That's just not really how it works, you can't just flip a switch and stop loving something. Sure, hopefully, if we continually get lied to and they continually show no effort to create a championship product, over time, I hope I can move on. Find a team worthy of my dedication, a team who continually tries to win it all through the use of strategic long term planning instead of self defeating short sighted fixes for each season. I'm just not there yet, and I bet that resonates with more than a few fans out there.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Also, vznla doesn't hate the Pacers, he just strongly dislikes and questions TPTB and players.

Well,close. I believe that vs la just operates from a different perspective. Many of us operate from a perspective of the glass being half-full or half-empty. And for us, that may actually change from one to the other, depending on the player involved, the day of the week, the alignment of the planets, or whatever.

For vznla, I'm pretty sure his starting point is with the glass 3/4 empty. He tends to be far more often critical than supportive when it comes to Pacers players.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Having expectations that the team should get better isn't the irrational part. Thinking the Simon lied to profit is the irrational part of it. Thinking that the team has to compete for a championship or the season was awful is irrational. The reason people are sports fans are for the rides. The lows and the mediocre makes the winning so much sweeter. You don't have to be happy with every mood but just stop *****ing after every move and predicting doom at the first sign of trouble.

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

You've successfully understood nothing I've said. Total straw man argument, no one is suggesting we have to be competing for a championship every year, only that we are making moves in a consistent manner with a plan and goal of being championship contenders. Note: not a playoff team, not a tough second round out, a legitimate contender. We aren't that, and drafting Miles Plumlee will never move us toward that. Signing Roy Hibbert's of the world to max contracts will never move us toward that. Bidding up a moderately talented combo guard against ourselves will never move us toward that. We spent $100M+ this off season without addressing any of the weaknesses we had last season or giving us any potential for these weaknesses to be corrected in the near or long term future. These are blatantly bad moves without the sort of long term strategic thought required for a team already possessing huge strategic disadvantages (not having Lebron on its roster) just can't afford if they want to truly contend.

I don't need to predict doom, it's fully guaranteed knowledge. I will give anyone on this board 1000:1 odds that we don't win a title in the next 3 years. I'd sign the contract in blood and thank you for the free cash.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

You've successfully understood nothing I've said. Total straw man argument, no one is suggesting we have to be competing for a championship every year, only that we are making moves in a consistent manner with a plan and goal of being championship contenders. Note: not a playoff team, not a tough second round out, a legitimate contender. We aren't that, and drafting Miles Plumlee will never move us toward that. Signing Roy Hibbert's of the world to max contracts will never move us toward that. Bidding up a moderately talented combo guard against ourselves will never move us toward that. We spent $100M+ this off season without addressing any of the weaknesses we had last season or giving us any potential for these weaknesses to be corrected in the near or long term future. These are blatantly bad moves without the sort of long term strategic thought required for a team already possessing huge strategic disadvantages (not having Lebron on its roster) just can't afford if they want to truly contend.

I don't need to predict doom, it's fully guaranteed knowledge. I will give anyone on this board 1000:1 odds that we don't win a title in the next 3 years. I'd sign the contract in blood and thank you for the free cash.

You could make that 30 years and still be safe but that says more about the NBA than it does the Pacers. They have never won a title since they joined the NBA and only got to play in the finals one time. If you didn't sign Hibbert, who would you have signed to replace him? You would have been overpaying that player too. How do you know there was no competition for Hill? Just because it was not announced does not mean it was not there. But, assuming you were right, how much do you think another team would have paid him? Is he really that overpaid? Who was taht much better than Miles Plumlee at that draft slot? When you draft that low, the pick is usually irrelevant any way. The Pacers cannot make the moves to build a championship contender you suggest. Free agents do not want to come to Indiana even if we over pay them. Look at how few different teams have won a championship in the last 25 years. That isn't going to change. If you really want to get down, you can come to realize that the Pacers are really just an opponent for contending teams and developers of talent that big market teams will take away from them if they get really good or force the Pacers to overpay for their own players they develop like Hibbert. The problem is not with Pacers management but with the NBA in general. Now, if you can get lucky and get a superstar like Durant AND keep him, you can do something but that is a once in 25 years circumstance. Look at Cleveland, they couldn't keep LBJ. Look at Orlando, they couldn't keep Dwight Howard. Look at Denver, they couldn't keep Melo.... The music keeps playing but it never changes.....

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Re: This team needs to be blown up

What would Larry Bird do? Seriously, I keep wondering what Larry Bird would do. I personally believe the man was an interracial part of the team. There is a part of me that wonders if he was the "bad cop" to Frank Vogel's "good cop". There is something missing. Clearly, we can identify Danny Granger, and we may be able to debate about a player or players who are no longer on the roster. However, I think the person we are forgetting to measure the impact of is Larry Bird. How much influence did he have on the team?

Re: This team needs to be blown up

You could make that 30 years and still be safe but that says more about the NBA than it does the Pacers. They have never won a title since they joined the NBA and only got to play in the finals one time. If you didn't sign Hibbert, who would you have signed to replace him? You would have been overpaying that player too. How do you know there was no competition for Hill? Just because it was not announced does not mean it was not there. But, assuming you were right, how much do you think another team would have paid him? Is he really that overpaid? Who was taht much better than Miles Plumlee at that draft slot? When you draft that low, the pick is usually irrelevant any way. The Pacers cannot make the moves to build a championship contender you suggest. Free agents do not want to come to Indiana even if we over pay them. Look at how few different teams have won a championship in the last 25 years. That isn't going to change. If you really want to get down, you can come to realize that the Pacers are really just an opponent for contending teams and developers of talent that big market teams will take away from them if they get really good or force the Pacers to overpay for their own players they develop like Hibbert. The problem is not with Pacers management but with the NBA in general. Now, if you can get lucky and get a superstar like Durant AND keep him, you can do something but that is a once in 25 years circumstance. Look at Cleveland, they couldn't keep LBJ. Look at Orlando, they couldn't keep Dwight Howard. Look at Denver, they couldn't keep Melo.... The music keeps playing but it never changes.....

Excellent post. I've known this and stated it in various ways for years, but for some reason I'm still a fan. Maybe it's that underdog thing.

You can add Shaq, Garnett and others to that list. The superstars always gravitate to the big markets. Even if some stay home, small markets rarely draw big time talent. DWest was an exception to some extent, but IMO he came to Indiana on a two year contract to rehab for the most part. Recall he always stressed how deep the team was early on...

Re: This team needs to be blown up

What would Larry Bird do? Seriously, I keep wondering what Larry Bird would do. I personally believe the man was an interracial part of the team. There is a part of me that wonders if he was the "bad cop" to Frank Vogel's "good cop". There is something missing. Clearly, we can identify Danny Granger, and we may be able to debate about a player or players who are no longer on the roster. However, I think the person we are forgetting to measure the impact of is Larry Bird. How much influence did he have on the team?

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I WAS right about Gerald Green. Everything else....I might have overreacted just a bit....

Are you going for the "Understatement of the Year," award?

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

It was a little bit of a fluke, the Pacers had remarkable health the whole season, and the players were together and in good shape, unlike a lot of players and teams.

Well crap, I said something kind of dumb...

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."