Fifth Helicopter Shot Down In Weeks

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- An umbrella insurgent group claimed responsibility for downing a U.S. helicopter and "burning it down completely" near
Baghdad on Wednesday, according to a claim posted on various Islamist Web sites.

CNN was unable to confirm the authenticity of the statement from the group, which includes al Qaeda in Iraq.

It was the fifth U.S. helicopter to go down in Iraq in almost three weeks. (Watch smoke and flames spew from the downed chopper Video)

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theres gotta be something going on here, either the insurgents are getting more of the older SA-7 type shoulder fired sams, or perhaps they are
getting a newer more advanced type of sam like the SA-18? and more importantly where are they getting them from? perhaps iran or syria? or maybe they
are using heavy anti-aircraft machineguns like russian made NSVs or KORDs? maybe they are getting real good with the RPGs? one thing is for sure
though, they are getting much better at downing choppers and thats bad because the roads of iraq are already dangerous enough now the skies are
getting worse.

The reports on what, exactly, downed the choppers seem to be mixed. In a couple of cases it appeared to eyewitnesses that the choppers went down
after a burst of gunfire - but there are also eyewitnesses who claim 'rockets' were involved (which I take to mean something that leaves a fiery
trail, since I don't see 'actual' unguided rockets being very effective).

Could be new tech, or new tactics, or it could just be that our pilots got complacent and weren't flying to the utmost of their ability when in areas
they perceived to be safe.

It's also possible that we're too predictable in our flight paths, and leave ourselves open to lay-in-wait tactics by insurgents
packing..whatever.

In any case, helicopters aren't very survivable, they never really were, right?

The roads are too dangerous, so we go to the air. Now the air is getting a little too dangerous - so that begs the question, where do we go now?
Please say home...

It may not be that they are getting more modern anti-air weaponry. It could be that over the four years of occupation, the insurgents have tried many
times to shoot down helicopters with little success.

Perhaps they have learnt from this, adjusted at what point they fire their weapon when they see the helicopter (It's not just a simple point and
shoot art, there is a 'knack' to it), perhaps noting also what flightpaths the helicopters regularly take, noting the near misses and the
missed-by-a-mile-shots, and noting what tactic they had used of a shot that got the near miss until they narrow it down.

Perhaps now they have worked it out to a tee how to bring a copter down.

It's possible they have new weaponry, but it usually takes a while to 'adjust' to them. Perhaps they have had them for a while and have now come to
grips with them.

The reports I have heard of helicopters being shot down this year are that heavy machine gun fire was heard before the crash.

I've seen a video of the apache being taken out. That was taken out by a shoulder fired SAM of some sort.

Originally posted by KonigKaos
Pull the soldiers out and nuke very Iraqi city one by one till they submitt!
Then if they still want and uprising nuke Baghdad with a 20kiloton bomb and turn that entire bitch into glass

Have you not created enough death? Is your thirst for it that monstrous?

Originally posted by KonigKaos
One of my many many theories!!!

Scary.

Seriously, have a word with yourself.

Originally posted by KonigKaos
They are getting weapons supplied into them from Iran or Syria or some other nation. They would of ran out of weapons long ago!

The insurgents got their hands on lots of weaponry in the aftermath of the invasion, in the chaos that followed that saw Iraqi Army armouries
unguarded, and of course receive weaponry when they infiltrate the army and police....

Originally posted by charliegrs
theres gotta be something going on here, either the insurgents are getting more of the older SA-7 type shoulder fired sams, or perhaps they are
getting a newer more advanced type of sam like the SA-18? and more importantly where are they getting them from? perhaps iran or syria? or maybe they
are using heavy anti-aircraft machineguns like russian made NSVs or KORDs? maybe they are getting real good with the RPGs? one thing is for sure
though, they are getting much better at downing choppers and thats bad because the roads of iraq are already dangerous enough now the skies are
getting worse.

It doesn't require RPGs or SAMs to take out choppers.
.50 cal rounds will do nicely against most helicopters. Harder to down a Blackhawk with .50, but it can be done (assuming you're lucky).

I've noticed that they haven't been saying much about what kind of choppers are going down. Maybe it's too embarrassing for the manufacturers of
the equipment. God forbid that Sikorsky (or whoever) should get a bad name and lose money in the middle of a war! That just wouldn't do!
Ya know... the whole point is to make your dollars no matter the bloodshed. Gotta keep the good press and lie about the bad stuff!

We was sitting on the block with nothing to do
When I looked at my boys and the defense crew
Said I got a plan and we gonna get paid
Plus we get the Socialite harem so we can get laid
My friends looked at me and said Cool
We made some defense pacts
And got Mad contracts
ended it with a pound

Now we got to get blood on the field
How we do this is we keeping it real
We get the base stirred up by fear
We keep this up for more than a year
Get out the snakes on the tv and airwaves
Remember to side with the preachers Jesus Saves
Keep the propaganda feedback with deceptive loops
And if you question anything the sheep will yell out "Support the troops" TROOPS TROOPS TROOOPS (Echo) (Drum Break and Turntable cuts)

Now we got it ramped it up to get the funds for this trip
Dangerous Nuclear Threat and Liberation are talking points to this conflict
We got stacks of cash for this mess
And it's all thanks to the SHEEP CONGRESS and the PRESS
They signed off on it cuz we ramped it hard
And not to mention we pulled Joe Wilson's card
We got it locked we sent a sucker, Aint no cake in Nigeria
But still we make people believe that crap causing mad hysteria

Make these fools believe we have evidence of WMD
And if they don't believe "You hate america, B"
Be patriotic even though me and my boys won't go
Cuz I got to keep my eye on this cash flow
But I thank you for your service, ya know?
My Boy Rummy Don says we be out fast

Iraq is a real blessing in disguise for the Iranian military.
They can test new variants of weapons such as the IED/EFP against state-of-the-art US armour...and in particular refine ground-to-air weaponry
tactics, as that will be the most likely method of attack on Iran to minimise US boots-on-ground casualties...

I've had no luck in finding documentation on this, but I've heard that Somalians and Afghanis have cobbled these together in the past (Helicopters
were critical to Russian tactics in Afghanistan). I've seen no factual information pertaining to this possibility, just rumors.

So, has anyone here ever heard of a proximity fuse being fitted to an RPG, for the purpose of creating an air burst to take out helicopters?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I've had no luck in finding documentation on this, but I've heard that Somalians and Afghanis have cobbled these together in the past (Helicopters
were critical to Russian tactics in Afghanistan). I've seen no factual information pertaining to this possibility, just rumors.

So, has anyone here ever heard of a proximity fuse being fitted to an RPG, for the purpose of creating an air burst to take out helicopters?

Maximum range is between 900 and 1100 metres, the fuse sets the maximum range, usually 920 m. The timed detonation has been used to create rough
proximity airbursts against helicopters once they have passed the preferred 100 m head-on attack zone.

At the maximum range of 920 meters, RPGs self explodes (4.5 seconds from firing) and that's how the weapon is sometime used as a form of
"artillery", spraying shrapnel over military installations, or slow, low flying or hovering helicopters.

Based on the information, the first source mentions about time detonation. Other sources (including the second one as an example) does not mention
about it. Nor have I heard of any event where the rpg has fired and explodes close to the helos. Many of the helos gone down are from direct hits.
Most of the information I have gotten is that its mostly self destruct when passed the 900m mark.

A Sea Knight helicopter that crashed last week northwest of Baghdad was shot down, the U.S. military said Wednesday, reversing earlier statements
that it appeared to have been due to mechanical failure.

The Marine CH-46 troop transport went down northwest of Baghdad on Feb. 7, killing all seven people on board, and an al-Qaida-linked Sunni group
claimed responsibility and aired a video.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Another one just got downed in ramadi.

hallelujah.

--------

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Syrian Sister]

Hallelujah? WTF? How are you to be taken seriously with regards to loss of human life, when you're rejoicing at other's death? How is it that
anyone should mourn the loss of those who you apparently ally yourself with, when you obviously are disengenuous about your concern for life. As long
as it's the loss of American life it's ok?

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