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Yeah, if you get a copy of the sales flyer, in the fine print it even says it uses the Golden Saber BJHP bullet. It drives me crazy as well that ammo is packaged in ever smaller retail packages, vs the 50 round LEO boxes.

???

Originally Posted by garrettwc

Sorry we were posting at the same time. It is the standard round not the bonded version.

But "BJHP" is the abbreviation for "Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point." If they are saying the Ultimate Defense uses the BJHP bullet, then it must be bonded. Since that's the direction the industry seems to be moving (because, of course, everyone always needs to shoot through laminated safety glass when they're in a self defense situation), it wouldn't surprise me.

I need to stock up on Golden Saber (the non-bonded variety) while I can still find it.

{Edit}Looking deeper into Remington's web site, one of their [well hidden] ballistic charts calls the bullet "BJHP" but another calls it "Brass Jacketed Hollow Point." So I still don't know if it's the bonded or non-bonded bullet. I'll try to reach someone at Remington to find out.

HawkmoonOn a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

If you don't change something, you can't justify jacking the price by an obscene percentage. But ... if you give the old product a catchy new name and a pretty new box, and then package it 20 to the box instead of 25, then you can charge heaps more money because people will think it's a new product. And I wonder how many people actually paid attention to the fact that Golden Saber was packed 25 rounds to the box while all the competition was 20 rounds to the box. My guess is ... very few.

One of the things I liked about Golden Saber (aside from the fact that I never have to worry about feeding) is that it came in boxes of 25. That allows a full load-out from one box -- if you carry 7-round mags, 3 times 7 is 21, plus one for the chamber. If you carry 8-round mags, 3 times 8 is 24, plus one for the chamber. So ... one in the gun and two on the belt. With 20 to a box, now you have to break open a second box just to get a standard load-out, even if you carry 7-round mags.

Based on the price, I'm guessing that the "High Terminal Performance" is nothing more than the old UMC stuff with a generic hollow point bullet ... again, wrapped up in a nice new package with a catchy new name. It probably works as well as Winchester White Box "Personal Defense" ammo, which isn't bad stuff. It's just not "state of the art."

HawkmoonOn a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

Brass jacketed hollowpoint is what I understood it to mean. That is the marking on my last box of standard golden saber. The "bonded" variety has a different designation.

My understanding on the HTP is its the classic line that came in the green and yellow box. Better than UMC but as you said not cream of the crop.

"The 1911 was the design, given by God to us through John M. Browning, that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and it's true now." - Col. Robert Coates commanding, U.S. Marine Corp Special Operations Command Detachment 1 (DET 1)

Getting back to the OP's question. In a 3" barrel gun a standard 230 gr.may not get up to speed to expand a hollowpoint.
So I would try a box of Speer 230gr. Gold Dots ( Short Barrel), Corbon DPX185, Hornady Critical defense 185 gr. and see what your gun likes.

Another thing with Carry ammo, I recently stocked up on Speer 230 gr Gold Dots for my commander.
I was able to find them in the 50 round boxes at Ammunition Depot for about the same price as other places charge for the 20 round box.
So that's like getting carry ammo for half price.

"The 1911 was the design, given by God to us through John M. Browning, that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and it's true now." - Col. Robert Coates commanding, U.S. Marine Corp Special Operations Command Detachment 1 (DET 1)

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