Grrl Power #314 – Contrition condition

I may need to futz with the dialog on the page a little. For instance I’m not sure if “the thanks of the office of the president” is too much, like if that carries some sort of official recognition or if that’s just how you talk when you’re president. Also I’m not sure how the prez would actually address her. “Miss Scoville” seems ok, but then he’s the Commander in Chief and she’s in the military now, so it seems like he should call her either “Recruit Scoville” or “Private Scoville” only, I’m not sure at what point she would actually become a private. Is it the first day of boot camp, or the last? She’s been rolled out in the PR event, but she hasn’t been issued her gear yet or even taught how to salute. She’s basically just stepped off the bus. I probably should have asked on Twitter before this page went up but I assumed I’d have to tweak it a little in any case.

Things I learned while drawing this page: when women put their hair in a bun (or anyone with long hair I guess) there’s this spongy donut thing or a rolled up sock with a hole in the toe inside the bun to give it shape. I just assumed it was all hair. It’s possible to do it with all hair, but then the bun is usually hollow and keeps its shape largely due to hairspray. I was looking up acceptable military hairstyles for women to make sure I was getting Max’s hair right. I think her bun might be a little low but lets ignore that for now. If I was a gal in the military I’d just go all G.I. Jane for the duration instead of having to walk around with 27 bobby pins in my hair all the time. On the one hand you’d have an ample supply of lockpicks if you need them, on the other hand you’d be screwed if Magneto attacked.

Discussion (458) ¬

I actually liked the flow of the dialog of Obama, It actually flowed really close to his speaking pattern. I agree with several of your commenters that The Pres would probably use a Civilian Title rather than a Military one in this instance, especially since his first statement acknowledged that she still has the right to run her own comic shop while with archon.

If I were going to critisize anything (and this would be a critique, not a slam), I think the president would refer to Sidney as Ms. Scoville, rather than Miss Scoville,

I don’t normally comment, but I was VERY impressed on how well you captured the president’s speech patterns here, so I just had to put my two cents in.

The President is a civilian leader OF the military (and the leader of all the military leaders), so it makes sense that he can call them either by a military OR civilian title. It’s his prerogative. Then again I might be wrong – i’m not military.

Someone else made the comment ‘the president is the hook the chain of command hangs from’ (yes, I’m paraphasing, but the metaphor is consistent). I actually really like that description, simply because it makes a simple point.

The President is not part of the chain of command, and is therefor not military. The chain of command is none the less subordinate to him. This is important, because there are countries where that is not the case, where the government exists by the permission and at the leave of the military, rather than the other way around (as we have it). They are consistently unpleasant places to live.

I wouldn’t say those places are all /that/ bad. Some of them are just deficient or developing in the democratic aspect. Thailand and Egypt come to my mind. The countries aren’t perfect, but a western democratic system is a tough thing to achieve.

““Miss Scoville” seems ok, but then he’s the Commander in Chief and she’s in the military now, so it seems like he should call her either “Recruit Scoville” or “Private Scoville” only, I’m not sure at what point she would actually become a private. Is it the first day of boot camp, or the last?”

Nawww!! This is perfectly in character. Remember, this is the CinC who in his first awards ceremony for a CMH called the US Marine Corps “the Marine Corpse”. There may have been CinCs more clueless about the military, but I canna think o’ one, and doubt I shall.

Honestly, it’s fine for the President to call her Miss Scoville, instead of Recruit (I don’t think she’s even a private yet, she hasnt even clocked in for her first day, or however it works). And not because Obama is relatively clueless when it comes to military stuff (he is, but it’s actually not an issue here). The president is not the military – he’s the civilian head -of- the military, so it makes sense that the President might not call people by rank always. He doesnt actually have to do a lot of the stuff that a general might do (like returning a salute, which is something he failed to do to a marine when boarding his helicopter, which got some news flak). Though in public it’s probably a good idea to do stuff like call people by their rank or return salutes, since it’s bad PR otherwise and looks publicly disrespectful to the people in the military

But here, it doesnt matter that he calls her Miss instead of Recruit for multiple reasons. 1) The civilian thing – he’s a civilian AND in charge, he can call her any title he wants. 2) She hasnt technically even clocked in on her FIRST day yet. 3) It’s in a private high security meeting where there are no press around to give any sort of negative PR even if the first two reasons were not applicable, which they are. :)

About the boot camp part of the question… I looked it up but I’m by no means even remotely knowledgeable about this without google. As soon as you are in the first day of boot camp, you are a private. And it’s even possible, albeit rare, for a person to be promoted from Private to Private First Class while still in boot camp

Okay, a friend of mine who is a whole lot more knowledgeable about military stuff just told me I’m wrong about the private in boot camp thing. That you don’t get to be officially a private until graduation from boot camp, and if you’re promoted during boot camp, it means that upon graduation, you get promoted to Private First Class.

Since most of my military knowledge comes from watching movies like Stripes, I’m going to take his word on it instead of my own googled knowledge.

When the Constitution lays out the concept of “Civilian Command over the Military,” most people mistake it to mean that it refers to the civilian President…which is wrong. By the Constitution, it’s CONGRESS that has all responsibility over the military; the quartering, paychecks, feeding, recruiting, disciplining, etc. Congress also has all lawful power of Warmaking as well.

The title of Commander in Chief for the President is NOT automatic & NOT perpetual; the President is granted the title only “when called into the actual service” & it’s Congress that makes that call. Congress can revoke the title any time they wish (under the Constitutionally-specified circumstances), and the title must even be renewed by Congress or it will lapse.

I’m… pretty sure it IS automatic that the President is in charge of the Military. Congress is NOT in charge of the military – they’re in charge of the military’s budget since Congress is in charge of the budget, and they’re in charge of declarations of war and treaties (because that is spelled out in Article I of the US Constitution). It’s a limitation upon the Executive Branch’s control over the military, but it doesnt mean Congress has any say in ordering the generals like the President can (beyond declaring war and treaties)

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Right. None of that has anything to do with actually controlling what the army does. At all. All of that is about the power of the purse and the creation of laws which can affect the military…. not giving orders to the generals. The legislative branch does NOT execute orders EVER. It’s called Separation of Powers. It’s why they’re the Legislative Branch, not the Executive Branch. They don’t execute orders or laws.

Btw…. the militia is not the Army or Navy. Or Marines. Or Air Force. Or Coast Guard. Or National Guard. Probably should have explained that first.

The “militia” describes all able-bodied men who are not members of the Army or Navy (Uniformed Services). There are two laws which describe what the militia is.

The organized militia (defined by the Militia Act of 1903) – State militia forces (the National Guard and the Naval Militia). Also, the National Guard is NOT the same as the National Guard of the United States, (a federally recognized reserve military force)

The reserve militia (defined by the Militia Act of 1903) – consists of every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who is not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia. (sec 313 Title 32)

As for the President giving specific orders to the generals, admirals, et al, that’s because Congress bestows the title for it. The President is still held accountable to Congress (& the Constitution) for all of the CinC’s issued orders & the military’s actions.

Article 2 Section. 2.
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States…

Congress is responsible for making the thing (or not) and maintaining the thing (or not) but once its there the President pretty much does whatever (within the limits of relevant treaties and laws). But, no, Congress does not “bestow the title for it.” Congress can’t countermand a specific order, they can simply make carrying out unwanted orders arduous and painful.

Congress does not bestow the President the ability to give orders to the generals (other than that Congress was responsible for the Constitution’s creation). The Constitution gives that power in Article 2.

This is entirely dependent on how wine defines ‘in charge’, as Pander laid out quite well. A big part of the issue is the fact that the office of President, constitutionally, was seen as innately subordinate to the legislature; Congress drafts laws, and the President executes those laws, managing the actual implementation. The nature of the relationship between Congress and President has changed a lot since the constitutional convention, and the Presidency is an entirely different creature from that imagined by the framers.

No, actually. the way it was set up, the Legislature, Executive (which the President heads) and Judicary are supposed to be equally powerful- since the intention was that if one of the branches started acting outside it’s authority, the other two would combine to stop them. It IS true that the President was never intended to be the main political figure, though.

The Legislative branch creates laws. The Executive branch implements laws. The basic relationship there is one of service. It’s written into the structure of the document.

What the framers hadn’t entirely accounted for was the clout to be had by the fact that the presidency is the only office in the country for which the entire country has a direct role in selecting. Being the direct ‘servant of the people’ allowed the presidency to grow in influence beyond the role initially envisioned for it.

Yes, there are checks and balances, yes they were there from the outset, but that doesn’t mean that the three branches were always intended to be equal in power.

Without having gone through 270-odd comments, I do know that during boot camp, you’re a Recruit. It’s not until you go to Tech school that you actually have your grade designation (AKA rank). But now comes the question. Is Archon a form of boot camp, Officer Candidacy School, or both? Would she graduate with an E- or O- designation (Enlisted or Officer). Does Archon have the power to assume authority during emergencies in the way federal enforcement agencies do?

I think the Superhuman(Parahuman?) assets would warrant an officer rank, simply due to the need for them to lead teams of normals within their own command structure, and ability to act independently of a squad. So Halo may come out of training as a Butterbar.(3rd Lt.) or equivalent. Then again officer training is YEARS long, so she may go through basic, get her rank as a Private, then…I don’t know, night school for officer training?

The command structure of any cape force that has normal troops as well is likely to be convoluted. Maybe a completely seperate structure, like Worm’s PRT and Protectorate? Or rank as needed, like in the Wearing the Cape books, where the heroes are issued rank that only activates in very limited circumstances?

I disagree. Just because a person has superabilities and some governmental training, it does not NECESSARILY follow that said person is suited to lead others in battle.

Whilst Max and Hiro (for two) obviously have the aptitude and training for this, I can think of a few ARCHON people other than Sydney who (despite their admirable qualities) probably should NOT be leading troops under any circumstances.

Better to think of the un-military members of ARCHON (eg. Sydney and Dabbler) as “specialists” (in fact, that IS how Dabbler is described, more or less, at the press conference). Their capabilities mark them as worthy of respect and give them extremely limited authority, but that is as far as it goes.

3rd Lt. is a rank assigned to Academy students for summer exercises. Technically an “officer” which places them in the chain of command, but below every other officer in the field. I have dealt with this “rank” on many occasions.

I suspect that is either (or both) service and era-dependent. In Army BASIC as of about 5 years ago you have rank from day 1. It’s not enough rank to count for much except a difference in paycheck, but…

Actually, at least in the U.S. Army, you’re a private the second you get off the bus. And you receive 1 promotion by the time you graduate from BCT. My Marine buddy tells me that in the Marines you’re a boot until you graduate and get your rank. So depends on the service.

1) POTUS, while not himself military, is at the apex of the Chain of Command. He is *on* the list, therefore “part” of it. Any official list you find online will confirm that. (2a) If a servicemember is not in uniform with standard rank insignia visible, one does not refer to them them by rank (if one even knows what the rank is! Which you might not, in the absence of insignia). (2b) If Sydney has a rank, Mr. Obama can be quite forgiven for not knowing it. He certainly wouldn’t know, meeting me on the street, that I was a Specialist in the Army, unless I told him. (3) While nervous and adorkable, Sydney is nonetheless wrong in her address. If she is being civilian, he is “Mr. President”, and if she ever watched “West Wing” she’d know that. If she is being military, she should use the all-purpose “Sir”, which encompasses any officer of higher rank than you. Maxima would/should have corrected Sydney immediately on that point. Search up “military courtesy”. Keeping it simple makes for less likelihood of faux pas.

When I did my 4 years in the U.S. Army (E-4 Specialist), I managed to perfect a barely distinguishable “Sir’nt” for my ‘I haven’t had time to look at your insignia.’ addresses to pretty much everyone. If it was either an officer or a Sargent they’d generally ask “What did you call me?” at which point I’d have had time to look at rank and say either “Sir” or Sar’nt (a more modern “Sarge”) as the case required. Some caught on, but if they did they never really minded. And on the off times i called a e-4 or below (That i didn’t recognize their voice) it, they generally laughed and joked that I had just promoted them.

1) Yes
(2a) Not necessarily. If you do not know someone’s rank, you obviously don’t use it. If you do know their proper form of address and don’t use it you’re wrong.
(2b) True. Also the case that senior personnel generally call junior personnel whatever they find convenient, within the bounds of decorum. Case in point senior officers referring to junior officers by first name or President Bush’s propensity for nicknames.
(3) While you’re correct about the forms of address, I can’t imagine Maxima taking the time in this situation to make that correction. While, generally, such corrections should be made immediately, this is not “generally.” Especially knowing how fast Sidney gets spun into weirdness. Keeping several world leaders on hold while you dress down a junior person, especially one as prone as Sidney to go off the general direction of travel, is a quick way into all sorts of badness.

@MPsoldier83. My situation in Basic was like that as well. Due to the credits of my then-unfinished college career, when I entered the Army, I was a PV2 to everyone else’s PVT. As a recruit who knew nothing, I wasn’t able to exert any authority with it :). And cadet “sergeants” were breveted by the drills based on observed leadership potential (which I didn’t have), which superceded my actual rank in any case. PV2 -> PFC and PFC -> SPC promotions are strictly by time-in-grade (unless you f–k up), so I had a leg up there; I made those grades slightly ahead of my peers, but that’s where I plateau’d. I finished my four-year term at SPC. Making “hard stripes” (Corporal or Sergeant) is an entirely different matter, entirely merit-based and involves a lot of work.

Makes me think of a bit from the book version of “Starship Troopers”, when Jonny Rico is reporting for Officer Training, and he “sir’s” the sergeant meeting him. The sergeant ever-so-gently corrects him, saying, “You don’t call me ‘sir’, I call you ‘sir’. And I promise you, you aren’t going to like it.”

“If I was a gal in the military I’d just go all G.I. Jane for the duration instead of having to walk around with 27 bobby pins in my hair all the time. On the one hand you’d have an ample supply of lockpicks if you need them, on the other hand you’d be screwed if Magneto attacked.”

Also, it’s probably hard to go GI Jane if you’re someone like Maxima or Kenya, as there are no scissors or razors capable of the task :) Well… Kenya – maybe they could use a laser or something like that where there’s no kinetic energy involved….

Actually, if I remember a not so recent change to regulations, women aren’t allowed to GI Jane their hair in the military anymore. The army, at very least, had such an upsurge in women who wore their hair in that fashion it became considered a “fad” hairstyle, which the army specifically forbids serving Personell from ever wearing. I think they changed the hairstyle regs to read that women had to keep a minimum of 1/4 inch of their hair or such nonsense.

I’m a surprised about how much people debate on how the President should address Sydney. She is a kid. She behaves like a kid. Who just saved the day against superpowered demi-gods. His answer made perfect sense: he said thank you to a heroine in a polite way yet scolded her in a fatherly way. And no, no one is military after one or two days. I expect Maxima to be impossibly pissed but to go Big Sister Mode when she sees Syd crying for feeing so humiliated

the reason why there is typically a custom president is because generally, the people hat make various forms of media don’t want you to know when ti si set. Dave apparently doesn’t care, so he uses the actual president. ( you only have to worry about libel charges if the depiction would damage their reputation. I really don’t think this comic damages President Obama’s reputation in any way, so Dave would be safe from libel charges.

The “North American leaders” line raises a question: In the previous comic we saw Canada and Mexico on smaller screens on one side from Obama. There are also two smaller screens on the opposite side. Who are on there?

But checking out the details, I see it was not exactly a normal cartoon convention, as it was one specifically hosted as an anti-Islam event. So I am very hopeful that he, and our fellow GrrlPower fans were not caught up in it!

I did not know about the “sock in the bun” trick. I too assumed that the bun creation, was all some sort of witchcraft that only females are allowed to know.

I lived in fear of those beautiful Army Females. (seriously, I never heard a Sargent or Officer say “Women” it was only “Male” or “Female”. Also, I was joking about “living in fear”, mostly……. but all Army women are beautiful. OK, I will stop digging my hole now, I can no longer see sunlight.)

It’s all hair if you have thick hair. Maxima’s hair looks thick, and long enough. You just twirl it and twist it around and it makes a bun, and then you use hairspray if you don’t want it to fall out.
(Unless you’re in the army, maybe it’s different?)

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