abscess wrote:Okay... we are going in cirlces now. How is it that "oneness" and "unconditional love" are the same thing? Explain why is it so.

What is it that makes your idea so different from the other ones?

Unconditional love is to submit to acceptance of all things in the universe. Thus you submit to oneness, to use crude words, you just want to be with them.
-
I can't prove it.
How can I even prove your existence itself? You ask for the impossible.

I can't prove it with the system of logic that we've created for ourselves, they've completely left out the esoteric part. 50% ignored. The fact that paradoxes even exists should prove against this system.
Thus I don't really have any way to explain myself...

The only thing I want to achieve by telling you this is to give you some perspective, because my view of things isn't so common... but I feel it's constructive.
I hope you do feel some meaning in talking about this. =)

There's just so much information to puzzle. I can only give a little introduction...
My believe originates from the "Law of One". "Ra" is an entity (call it alien if you want) which contacted the people called Egyptians some many thousand years ago. Thus they began worshipping him and whatnot, since their priests warped their words (to gain power etc).
They left, humanity wasn't ready for the information yet (obviously).

It's pretty far fetched if you're not into esoteric stuff, and don't believe there's a world within you etc. You'll likely be "whoa, who smoked pot here?!?" but the more you read, the more it makes sense. The more you learn from other sources also, you begin to see connections. And it all feels correct intuitively.
Like you've always known.
http://www.lawofone.info/

You can legitimately question all this except oneness, which also is the base of the Law of One.

My friends doesn't call me "the master of bullshit" for nothing lol

Perhaps, in the future, I shouldn't discuss facts of how I'd like a society to be when I want to positively influence people. From this discussion it looks like it's completely meaningless, and just ends up with more fundamental things.

The instant I tear off your limbs, rip open your chest and pull out your intestines, biting into your neck as you ask for mercy, chewing through your eyes and spreading your brains on the ground like butter-------!

I just watched this movie, was very interested and I'll believe it's made with benign intentions.

But. I'm not ready to sign up to that shite. It makes radical change look simple and easy.

Firstly, what exactly is being proposed as an alternative to this big bad monetary system? A revolution to some utopistic technocracy it seems. And to get rid of scarcity and conflict, we should first eradicate what currently keeps society stable, eradicate the last remaining firewalls that are protecting us from criminals and dictatorship.

So to change the world this radically, we must first make ourselves the enemies of the current world. Behind systems that you want to bring down there are always people and in the end, to bring change means declaring war against those people. So if I'm going to march for something like that, I want the changes to be reasonable and the world that is proposed in Zeitgeist, or more accurately by those Venus Project guys is everything but reasonable. By the gods, it implies that work is bad! ambition is bad! individuality is bad!! Might as well say that life is pointless, why don't we all just die? No need to go through the effort to plug everyone into the matrix to make everyone happy when we've lost all other reasons to live. Surely whoever is narrating there isn't meaning all of that and I just misunderstood something?

It's also of closed mind to judge democracy, if the american goverment is corrupt then it is democracy that is keeping the corruption from getting out of control. It is a system for decentralizing power and complicating descision-making so that no one can get too much power, and I think it's working fine, it's what is keeping the current world together in a way. So have some respect fackazz.

Oh hell I lost my train of thought here...anyway, for every distortion in our society that this film brings up, it seems to create one if it's own. Stop war with war, be radical but not ambitious...it's too contradictory.

The good about the film would be the viewpoint of nature ultimately being our boss. I'm totally into that.

@ayadew
NO, I'm not into esoteric stuff at all. I've known very few people that are into that and I've asked and read about that stuff (the wiccans, and witches and other stuff that I can't remember), but just out of curiosity, not because I really think that will bring me some kind of answer. I've applied the same approach to religion, catholicism and christianism are the ones I've been reading about a bit more (just a tiny bit more) when compared with Zoroastrianism, buddhism and other things, but I really fail to see any answeres... Anyway, I'm curious just to get the knowledge and some unerstanding it, but I can't say I'm looking to get into it.

So, to get the stuff that you believe in, I check that web address you posted?

@Zensunni
I can't say much about the movie. I've only watched the first one (and that's because I saw it mentioned in 4chan lol), but I haven't watched the scond yet. But just looking at your post I think I can make some comments.

Zensunni wrote:So to change the world this radically, we must first make ourselves the enemies of the current world.

Well, if you consider change an enemy, then yeah. If someone wants to change the world in a radical way then that person, or group, will be labeled as an enemy. Look at Ghandi, he was a pacifist but he was considered an enemy of the British Colonial Authority because his views of an independent India didn't appeal and were "harmful" to them. The Massacre of Tlatelolco in Mexico 1968, marching students, workers, teachers, etc. were protesting about current events of those dates and did it in a pacifistic fashion, they were attacked by armed military and paramilitary forces because they were considered enemies (thus the name massacre).

If wanting changes brings the adjective of enemy, then I really see no problem with that... well, other than the fact that I may end up being hunted down to death!

Zensunni wrote:... it is democracy that is keeping the corruption from getting out of control.

A system by itself can't really do much. If the ones with the reins of the system are corrupt, then the system fails, if they are not, then it could work. As you put it, you seem to say that democracy is protecting itself in order that it doesn't get screwed as hard. Adolf Hitler, after dissolving the parliament, was voted as president (or whatever the title is), then burned the parliament and the rest is a long story. The point is that the system failed there because it was used by corrupt people. It doesn't matter how advanced a system is, if the head suffers, the rest also crumbles. The democratic system used in the US is no exception to that.

"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

abscess wrote:@ayadewNO, I'm not into esoteric stuff at all. I've known very few people that are into that and I've asked and read about that stuff (the wiccans, and witches and other stuff that I can't remember), but just out of curiosity, not because I really think that will bring me some kind of answer. I've applied the same approach to religion, catholicism and christianism are the ones I've been reading about a bit more (just a tiny bit more) when compared with Zoroastrianism, buddhism and other things, but I really fail to see any answeres... Anyway, I'm curious just to get the knowledge and some unerstanding it, but I can't say I'm looking to get into it.

So, to get the stuff that you believe in, I check that web address you posted?

That link is pretty far fetched for the uninitiated, but it's a way to truth.

I've studied a lot of religions, and extremely much of the occult. They all boils down to the same thing: there is no real foundation.The things you describe there are mostly bullshit, so I can understand your scepticism - there isn't a high probability this is true.

The Law of One has foundation, it has physical evidence all over the world if you're into that for evidence, and it has foundation in your esoteric self. It's the only thing I've been inclined to believe.

Zensunni wrote:I just watched this movie, was very interested and I'll believe it's made with benign intentions.

Yes, it's of mostly negative orientation, but also some positive, so it's worth a watch.
I might speak more about the Law of One about this subject, how it's actually going to work out itself with the monetary system being removed. It's about humanity changing to 4th density, but I dunno if I should even begin talking about that.

abscess: If you watch Zeitgeist Addendum and then read some of the Law of One you might get good results.

The instant I tear off your limbs, rip open your chest and pull out your intestines, biting into your neck as you ask for mercy, chewing through your eyes and spreading your brains on the ground like butter-------!

Ahem, I'm renewing this topic because I firmly believe in the ideas presented in the video. If you watch the video you guys wouldn't need an argument, because you would then know what ayadew is talking about whether you agree with it or not. Also, a lot of answers not presented in the videos are on the website presented at the end of the video. Its a video well worth watching regardless of what you think about the topic. I just skimmed over the argument because it was too long, but if you remove scarcity then there is no reason to barter and trade. We've always had trade because we've always had scarcity, but with our current technology scarcity can be removed at a minimum - which is a damn good start and a much better society than we have now. Consider this example: if it rained gold for a week, people in a scarcity culture would rush outside and fill their houses with gold. If the rain of gold continued for years, they would sweep it out of their houses and throw away their gold rings. In an environment of abundance and emotional security, many negative patterns would no longer be prevalent. Anyway, watch the video before arguing about the topic so that nothing has to get repeated.

@Zensunni: Rewatch the video, I think you misunderstood it ^^;; Its not as farfetched as it sounds. Whether the Venus Project takes off or not, the system will collapse. When that happens, governments will turn into dictatorships to control the ensuing chaos. Hopefully we can enlighten people to the Venus Project before then.

Well gold isn't going to rain from the sky. 0 scarcity might be possible with our current technology but it still requires so much work I'm sure we'll not see it during our lifetimes. It's an idealistic situation, like communism. I don't like Zeitgeist because it just preaches an ideal as the ultimate truth and dismisses the current world as garbage when in reality, it's this world we have to work with, not the one on our drawing board.

Everyone would like to have no energy crisis, world hunger, overpopulation and raping of nature, and it's not like these issues aren't being worked on. Ushering people on is ok, but this documentary fails at that by being too dreamy-eyes.

Zensunni wrote:Well gold isn't going to rain from the sky. 0 scarcity might be possible with our current technology but it still requires so much work I'm sure we'll not see it during our lifetimes. It's an idealistic situation, like communism. I don't like Zeitgeist because it just preaches an ideal as the ultimate truth and dismisses the current world as garbage when in reality, it's this world we have to work with, not the one on our drawing board.

Everyone would like to have no energy crisis, world hunger, overpopulation and raping of nature, and it's not like these issues aren't being worked on. Ushering people on is ok, but this documentary fails at that by being too dreamy-eyes.

You just think its unrealistic because you've never seen such a large social change before. You dismiss the possibility simply because you haven't experienced it. When people come together in large numbers, change can happen. With enough people, even something such as the Venus Project can happen. Its people like you who think "oh, it can't happen" that will keep it from coming true.

Zensunni wrote:Well gold isn't going to rain from the sky. 0 scarcity might be possible with our current technology but it still requires so much work I'm sure we'll not see it during our lifetimes. It's an idealistic situation, like communism. I don't like Zeitgeist because it just preaches an ideal as the ultimate truth and dismisses the current world as garbage when in reality, it's this world we have to work with, not the one on our drawing board.

Everyone would like to have no energy crisis, world hunger, overpopulation and raping of nature, and it's not like these issues aren't being worked on. Ushering people on is ok, but this documentary fails at that by being too dreamy-eyes.

You just think its unrealistic because you've never seen such a large social change before. You dismiss the possibility simply because you haven't experienced it. When people come together in large numbers, change can happen. With enough people, even something such as the Venus Project can happen. Its people like you who think "oh, it can't happen" that will keep it from coming true.

just for the sake of playing devil's advocate:

1. "when people come together in large numbers"? no, no, no, no. it's "IF people come together in large numbers". of course change is realistic if everyone on the surface of the planet contributed to it. the unrealistic part is whether or not people WILL all contribute to it. so when it all boils down, it's still unrealistic just because of the pure improbability of getting enough people to commit to change in the first place.

2. 0 scarcity will NEVER happen. because that would mean that everyone is perfectly equal in terms of wealth (and other things). not happening. the human condition has, as a part of it, the condition of being self-serving. it's part of survival instincts. as long as we're human, the human condition, and our own self-preservation, will always be in effect. what this means is that there will ALWAYS be people who will do things that give to themselves at the expense of others. no exceptions. the only way to undo this is to absolutely control the actions of EVERYONE that exists - which then robs free will, privacy, meaning of life, etc, etc.

arguments for the other side will follow... when i feel like it.

Whenever I go on, everyone leaves the Tsukihime forums. 'Cause I just fail like that.

In any case, whether the Venus Project will one day become real or not, it's very foundation is that we accept, trust and love each other unconditionally. I work towards this, it's hard to remove the suspicion and distrust that our society creates, but I'm making good progress.
Peace and love.

The instant I tear off your limbs, rip open your chest and pull out your intestines, biting into your neck as you ask for mercy, chewing through your eyes and spreading your brains on the ground like butter-------!