Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:

Password

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:

Confirm Password:

Email Address

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:

Log-in

User Name

Remember Me?

Password

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

Additional Options

Miscellaneous Options

Automatically parse links in text

Automatically embed media (requires automatic parsing of links in text to be on).

Topic Review (Newest First)

02-22-2004 09:16 PM

Greg Pavlov

Quote:

Originally posted by Cphatts There is no real definition as to what is true flyfishing or what isnt. I agree that nymphing with split shot on your line is somewhat similiar to drift fishing, but it is still more flyfishing than drift fishing. ..... However, don't fret or feel inferior, if you like to catch fish catch them how you can! It may not be the tradittional or purest method but if you have fun doing it, have at it. Enjoy it however you can.

I doubt that anyone is going to feel "inferior:" most of us have been told that something or other we do or enjoy isn't "real" or "authentic" or whatever. Rock and roll wasn't real music, according to a lot of adults back in the 50's, and still isn't to some people now. I suspect that if an English country squire sportsman from the turn of the last century showed up and took a look around at what we are doing, he would very likely decide that none of us are fly fishing, at least a good part of the time. Who cares.

02-21-2004 01:18 AM

Cphatts

As a former midwesterner I can certainly sympathize with the choice of techniques used to target steelhead. Quite simply, as mentioned above the rivers and the conditions are quite different. Swinging just isn't nearly effective as "nymphing", drift fishing, what ever you want to call it.

There is no real definition as to what is true flyfishing or what isnt. I agree that nymphing with split shot on your line is somewhat similiar to drift fishing, but it is still more flyfishing than drift fishing. The drift fisher who uses heavily weighted slinkies or egg sinkers with roe or prawns has a huge advatage over a fly fisherman simply using a fly with split shot. The bottom line is the conditions in the midwest are much tougher for swinging and if you like to catch lots of fish, you will likey have better luck with other methods. However, don't fret or feel inferior, if you like to catch fish catch them how you can! It may not be the tradittional or purest method but if you have fun doing it, have at it. Enjoy it however you can.

But if you do want get one swinging or on a especially on a waker...get out West, especially during the summer/fall

02-16-2004 05:25 PM

shotgunner

i wouldn't stick my opinion in did this concern any area other than my big back yard.

i guess i feel G.L. flyboys are condemned as being one & the same as C&D folk ( glorified drift fishermen) when any mention of weight is present. easy to do this without walking the same mile we do. the quest for solitude & relaxed fish often negates most prime "big river"areas.

our quality waters here in N.W. MI. do not specify the use of fly tackle, let alone fly line. merely "artificial bait or single hook lure". this basicaly keeps them open to any and all methods short of actualy bait fishing.

dfishinfool, this board does have a loyal "indicator" faction. its even on the west side of the divide.

drift fishing was/is the topic. i would agree that the words "weight ticking bottom" are descriptive of drift fishing.

i enjoy this site because it is the "real deal" not a "me too". its exactly what makes it so appealing. SG

02-16-2004 11:56 AM

macspey

Hey Randy,
You don't know me, but I know you (your 'internet persona') well, having read your posts with great interest on several boards, including this one. Though I prefer to "flyfish", accepting the considerably reduced odds of hooking up with a steelie on the Salmon River (as compared with your tried and true drift methods), I must say I've learned a great deal about the fishery and steelhead behaviour from you that has helped me a great deal in my "flyfishing". I, like many others I'm sure, 'use' your website to check on river and fishing conditions, in order to plan trips to the SR. I've never supported you directly, though I have patronized several of your sponsors, so I'd like to thank you here for your generous sharing of knowledge and timely information- Thanks!

This is Juro's sandbox, he pays the bills, and IMHO does a fantastic job with this board- it's as good as it gets on the internet, I dare say. So, I feel none of us should second-guess his M.O., vis-a-vis, commercial posts, signatures, etc.

I just think it's too bad that a way hasn't been found for you to participate in our 'flyfishing' discussions here, that doesn't raise any hackles.

Hope to see ya on the SR!

john aka macspey

02-16-2004 08:52 AM

Dfishinfool

Randy,
You have prompted me to sign on and post here. I have followed your posts for some time but I had never bothered to post myself before today. I for one feel that a URL below your post shouldn't offend anyone. It's the way the internet works. The open trading of information is what makes the internet the valuable tool that it is. Too many people seem to forget this.

As to the attitude some have here about indicator fishing not being fly fishing. It just baffles me how anybody throwing a big heavy sink tip can really call that flyfishing any more than me running a #14 nymph below a little Corkie. I live on the banks of the Grand River here in Ohio and do enjoy my spey rod and sink tips. I guess my definition of fly-fishing is a natural weightless presentation of the fly. To each his own.

02-16-2004 06:30 AM

RandyJones

Thanks for the Memories

Thanks to everyone for your help over the years, it's been a fun road.
Looking forwards to seeing you all out on the flats this summer with wish's of continued good health and happiness to all!
Best Fish's,
Randy Jones

02-14-2004 01:25 PM

juro

Bill -

I'd really enjoy the company - team swing! Maybe we can get Topher out too, he spoke fondly of the Catt last time it came up in conversation. Cumulative scoring?

Randy -

I didn't really follow all that but I think I can summarize my response as follows:

1) yes, this is a true flyfishing site and as much as I respect and admire you as a friend and angler I have no interest in non-flyfishing content here. There are many "flyfishing" sites who do not maintain a flyfishing content approach so I'd suggest contacting them if you'd like to get your drift angling ya-yas out on their sites.

2) Upon receipt of your donation last year I immediately contacted you to inquire about whether it was a renewal (you were a sponsor in earlier years of this site) since it was 50% of the sponsor rate. Your words were something like "no, do whatever you want it's my way of saying thanks". Well since we run this place without pay and deal with high costs, we spent it on the big server upgrade, thank you. But as you know per my email inquiry for your mailing address I am refunding that since I knew you would be mentioning it in this light. Please do not report that as a contribution for tax purposes as a result of this refund, I will not confirm it's validity if asked.

It seems to me you have a philosophy for running a website and in a sense are trying to force this perspective into our community. I welcome you to run your site any way you wish but there is a strong sense of disagreement for letting that philosophy change things around here by our members and our staff.

I highly doubt you will be serving any useful purpose by persisting based on the discussions that are occurring offline.

.02

02-14-2004 12:45 PM

wrke

Juro
If you need a second, just let me know. Don't know what I may be able to add (I've only fished the Catt once) but I'm fine moral support and am pretty good at schlepping.
Bill

02-14-2004 11:38 AM

RandyJones

Question:

Well, Im upgrading some stuff concerning a work related sales and marketing tool. Looks like yours and other urls have been locked in tight at the top for several days giving everyone a lil extra plug. Great! Could not be happier. Hope it helps some, if not all.

Promotion of one's business is a privilege extended only to sponsors or = people I like. Mostly it's a short url ad that shares something I have found interesting (I see thousands of the same ho-hum web sites) unique, that I would feel I was cheating my viewers if I did not share this with them. (I see my marketing tool and your in this very small category) If it helps put food on the table or a shirt on someone's back. They see a spike in the number of hit's, they get a few new members, maybe a donation, then Im happy. It's not always about the $$, sometimes its about what makes your heart feel good and sharing information with other's that have the same passion's, love that you do.

(Since our existence depends on sponsors, it would be dishonorable to our real sponsors to allow promotion by non-sponsors.)
If any of my sponsor's have a problem with me doing the above, Ill send them over your way. I sure hope my sponsor's dont feel dishonored and disgraced for sharing some great web sites (yours) with others.

Juro, got a web site yet promoting you know what? If so, send it over and I'll post it. I promise not to feel dishonored. Instead I would feel good knowing Ive maybe helped in some small way. Including an education article like that incredible one you did on that Island, cant remember it's name. would be really cool, especially with a live link to your web site underneath it all.

Don't know if you remember, but I did send this web site a $100 donation last summer. Just my way of saying thanks. Hope it helped a lil. (Will probably do the same this summer.) I also ask for donations, so I know how much just a lil $ can help when we all spend hours of our time with articles, web site upkeep, $$, trying to put out a quality product, etc.....

Question: Is it ok with all the moderators for me to post an educational article- report and below my name post my url? Not a live link, just the (www.-----.com) part? I wonder how many of your paid advertisers (guides, fly line manufacturers, etc.. make sales, book trips due to an increase of shared knowledge, fishing reports, bringing in new anglers into an area that they now have a better understanding of or increased interest in due to such post's? (My post's?, I think sometimes it's a lot easier to complain to the web site moderators about so and so posting a url and not being a paid sponsor when they themselves benefit from such post's.) Hmmmm, I bet some of you never looked at it that way before. I believe and know for a fact that many folks will read my stuff, but hire one of your paid advertiser's and for good reason. Why hire someone who took hours out of their day too 1. promote their business with a lil url. 2. Hours of time writing = $$ of time invested by the writer. 3. Why hire someone that you just learned something from or enjoyed, or were at least entertained by, when you should really be supporting the paid advertisers on this site.

Today's spin fishing but with a fly rod report for the Salmon River, Pulaski NY Steelhead:
Short and sweet, John was something like 4 for 14 on Steelhead. Amazing!!

Juro, since my post's are on drift fishing on the G.L. tribs and it seams as though you ONLY want traditional fly fishing post's then say the word. I'll stop, even after you were the one that asked me to post. Does not look like this particular steelhead spot is getting much attention these days. I would think anything, besides nothing, would better serve your guest's. More content, more viewers, maybe someone might by a new rod to come up and try it? (Sponsors might sell something?) Maybe a new line? Maybe get a new member? Maybe a donation to this fine web site?

Just to make sure we are clear. I never did call what I do fly fishing.

(( I refer all my traditional fly trips to another friend who does it full-time. Drift fishing is in my opinion easier to teach and more productive for many-many reasons. No time to go into. I always tell my guest's to treat these steelhead just like the trout they fish for back home. I think traditional F.F. is a lil more popular up here then your comment suggested. (Also the same about your "standing on one rock" comment and "crowds") I also dont think your blue or my white space is any more or less valuable than the other. We both work our a--'s off to try to put out a quality product. Yesterday I saw 3 guys with spey rods swinging tubes and spey flies with floating lines, some traditional fly anglers with strike indicators, some not, roll casting, mending , etc... with success. I counted 12 people in 3 miles we drifted, on a 12 mile river. It got up to 28 degrees at least. Nice!

Just to make sure we are clear. I never did call what I do fly fishing. My post seamed to throw a shock wave through your spey rod? The article was titled:

The Perfect Drift

Drift Fishing Correctly with Fly/Spin Rod:

at the end it says-

Besides all the other pieces of the puzzle we have covered and will cover, hopefully these tips will help you all to be more in tune with your drift fishing. Putting all of this together consistently will put you into the 10% that catch 90% of the fish!

Happy Hookin:

Randy Jones

P.S. Juro, members, advertisers, I hope you take some of the above in jest as it was meant to be presented. Maybe a lil friendly fishing ribbing, advise, a different way of looking at things. Some of it was obviously a disagreement. (No biggy) I understand we have 2 different marketing tools that need to be run differently.

Thanks,
Randy

02-14-2004 10:57 AM

peter-s-c

The Catt blows out pretty easily so we might want to look at mid-March before the spring run off really gets going.

Greg P. is the local Catt expert -- hopefully he'll be looking this up soon.

Oh ya, I was having second thoughts about same flies as I wasn't keen on sharing some of the really good ones. . . .

02-14-2004 09:59 AM

juro

And we'll both be hearing from our seconds too!

Same flies BS! I have some time-tested patterns that are deisgned for bringing out the dark side and the finesse in the psyche of the steelhead that you will not even see never mind fish! Seriously the flies are individual as the approach and can not be controlled provided they are legal.

I will be covering a lot of water, so will need to be able to learn the lay of the river one or two days prior. Swing water is not drift water, and only some of either holds fish.

"East Meets West?".

(I did make the mistake of thinking you were drift fishing BTW) No odds is fine.

What's the best month?

Quote:

Originally posted by peter-s-c Gauntlet thrown and caught . . . Your second will be hearing from my second.

Howzabout the Catt, light spey rods at dawn -- you limited to PNW tips and me limited to mono and shot, no indicator. Same flies.

Odds, well . . . you see, I'm swinging too -- not dead drifting -- the only difference is tip vs. BB. So no odds but I will buy you a Canadian beer for every fish you beat me by and you can by me an American beer for each one I'm ahead. I think that's more than sufficient incentive . . . .

If you want a dead drifter in the picture, I'm sure we can entice one out of the woodwork.

Oh ya, the name for this hoedown -- "Spey Spat on the Catt" ?

02-14-2004 09:39 AM

Interceptor

Lots of different PNW strains have been used for stocking the GLs since the 1870's. From Washington, Oregon, and California. Skamanias have only been stocked since the early 1980s. So they are the newest strain to the GLs as far as I know.

Hmm a duel on the Catt interesting. Maybe we can get it on Fly Fish TV they have filmed on the Catt before.

02-14-2004 09:23 AM

t_richerzhagen

Fish Source?

MJYP - You say "Second issue is our fish are not the same as the PNW's. From what many have told me the PNW fish are a different lot. More prone to come to a swung fly or surface presentation. Every GL Steelhead and Salmon started out as a hatchery fish. Even tho it was years ago in some cases. Yes at times Steel will come to a swung fly or a surface presentation. It does happen, just not as much as the PNW"

All your fish were origionally from the PNW, so the genetics are the same as many of "our" hatchery fish. I think the original strain was Skamania? In any case they are steelhead and mostly different in the temperature of the water and type of habitat. At least, I think that those are the more important factors.

02-14-2004 09:05 AM

peter-s-c

Gauntlet thrown and caught . . . Your second will be hearing from my second.

Howzabout the Catt, light spey rods at dawn -- you limited to PNW tips and me limited to mono and shot, no indicator. Same flies.

Odds, well . . . you see, I'm swinging too -- not dead drifting -- the only difference is tip vs. BB. So no odds but I will buy you a Canadian beer for every fish you beat me by and you can by me an American beer for each one I'm ahead. I think that's more than sufficient incentive . . . .

If you want a dead drifter in the picture, I'm sure we can entice one out of the woodwork.

Oh ya, the name for this hoedown -- "Spey Spat on the Catt" ?

02-14-2004 08:50 AM

juro

Peter -

That sounds like a gaunlet being thrown

How about a wager for number of fish landed over a 3-4 day period where I only use west coast methods? For me each fish caught on the swing should be worth 3 points, each fish caught on drift techniques worth 1. Actually my weighting far exceeds that ratio, perhaps 10:1, or subjectively infinite but then again I don't fish for fish, I fish for satisfaction.

However I do catch my share of steelhead on the swing and they are certainly fun to catch, I am not dissatisfied with my rate of success.

When can we meet on the Catt and hold this competition, and what ratio of points do you offer for swung fish verses drifted?

This thread has more than 15 replies.
Click here to review the whole thread.