If you make offering to mundane deities you can reborn in their retinue. Something to avoid, we want to free from samsara.

Brahma, god, bad spirits, good spirits, etc.

Regarding mundane beings i would reccomend only make contact with beings who have and keep samaya, like local guardians.

Who gave you this advice? How do you know which being will keep samaya? I feed my cats, do they keep samaya? Should I avoid making a connection/contact with them? What about with other humans? Should I avoid that too? What you are saying really makes no sense.

"My religion is not deceiving myself."Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

If you make offering to mundane deities you can reborn in their retinue. Something to avoid, we want to free from samsara.

Brahma, god, bad spirits, good spirits, etc.

Regarding mundane beings i would reccomend only make contact with beings who have and keep samaya, like local guardians.

Who gave you this advice? How do you know which being will keep samaya? I feed my cats, do they keep samaya? Should I avoid making a connection/contact with them? What about with other humans? Should I avoid that too? What you are saying really makes no sense.

I gave myself this advice. You know there is a white group and black group of local guardians.

Beings do keep samaya when there is no obstruction to dharma.

Very ironic, i see. But it makes sense when you do sangchod for what it is for.

If i find all this in a very ancient book from tibet would you consider it acceptable? Well this appears more or less in the sang of adzam drugpa, from idc booklet.

There is no need to believe me also, who cares.

"Emptiness" without compassion is not real emptiness.
"Compassion" without emptiness is not real compassion.

So if we make Sang offering to satisfy all the four guests...do the local spirits in our own area have a samaya? What possible connection could they have with dharma?

Would you not agree that contact between sentient beings results in karma? Of course we hope that our actions result in positive connections, not negative ones. But I do not think it is a stretch to say that the connections a person might make with spirits will extend to other lifetimes, if we fail to attain enlightenment in this life.

So if we make Sang offering to satisfy all the four guests...do the local spirits in our own area have a samaya? What possible connection could they have with dharma?

Would you not agree that contact between sentient beings results in karma? Of course we hope that our actions result in positive connections, not negative ones. But I do not think it is a stretch to say that the connections a person might make with spirits will extend to other lifetimes, if we fail to attain enlightenment in this life.

I think it's more about the assumption: are we assuming that the connections will result in our regression or their awakening? I favor the latter view, but it's not like I go looking for the more malevolent ones.

If you make offering to mundane deities you can reborn in their retinue. Something to avoid, we want to free from samsara.

Brahma, god, bad spirits, good spirits, etc.

Regarding mundane beings i would reccomend only make contact with beings who have and keep samaya, like local guardians.

Who gave you this advice? How do you know which being will keep samaya? I feed my cats, do they keep samaya? Should I avoid making a connection/contact with them? What about with other humans? Should I avoid that too? What you are saying really makes no sense.

I gave myself this advice. You know there is a white group and black group of local guardians.

Beings do keep samaya when there is no obstruction to dharma.

Very ironic, i see. But it makes sense when you do sangchod for what it is for.

If i find all this in a very ancient book from tibet would you consider it acceptable? Well this appears more or less in the sang of adzam drugpa, from idc booklet.

There is no need to believe me also, who cares.

The white group are those who are naturally inclined towards virtuous deeds including supporting the teachings and nurturing the peace and the prosperity of the place in question. That doesnt necessarily imply they have any samaya to keep, IMO.

"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

Regarding mundane beings i would reccomend only make contact with beings who have and keep samaya, like local guardians.

You only got samaya if you are a Vajrayana practitioner Javier. Here in the west I think most local protectors are not Vajrayana practitioners. Through Sangcho you can develop a relationship with them that eventually might become a Dharma connection since we are also inviting the three roots and the Dharma protectors. And most important is that we are developing generosity, loving kindness and Bodhicitta ourselves.

This is the same principle we use when we do "serkyem for the eight classes"

/magnus

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Regarding mundane beings i would reccomend only make contact with beings who have and keep samaya, like local guardians.

You only got samaya if you are a Vajrayana practitioner Javier. Here in the west I think most local protectors are not Vajrayana practitioners. Through Sangcho you can develop a relationship with them that eventually might become a Dharma connection since we are also inviting the three roots and the Dharma protectors. And most important is that we are developing generosity, loving kindness and Bodhicitta ourselves.

This is the same principle we use when we do "serkyem for the eight classes"

/magnus

If we have a job, we have a boss, if our boss commits to something, we are bounded to act accordingly. In the 8 clases it is like the same. Thats the point.

"Emptiness" without compassion is not real emptiness.
"Compassion" without emptiness is not real compassion.

Regarding mundane beings i would reccomend only make contact with beings who have and keep samaya, like local guardians.

You only got samaya if you are a Vajrayana practitioner Javier. Here in the west I think most local protectors are not Vajrayana practitioners. Through Sangcho you can develop a relationship with them that eventually might become a Dharma connection since we are also inviting the three roots and the Dharma protectors. And most important is that we are developing generosity, loving kindness and Bodhicitta ourselves.

This is the same principle we use when we do "serkyem for the eight classes"

/magnus

If we have a job, we have a boss, if our boss commits to something, we are bounded to act accordingly. In the 8 clases it is like the same. Thats the point.

The local protectors and the 8 classes are not working for us, we are not their boss. We are pacifying them with our offering. If they really like you maybe you can become their boss like Nubchen Sangye Yeshe.

/magnus

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

If we have a job, we have a boss, if our boss commits to something, we are bounded to act accordingly. In the 8 clases it is like the same. Thats the point.

The local protectors and the 8 classes are not working for us, we are not their boss. We are pacifying them with our offering. If they really like you maybe you can become their boss like Nubchen Sangye Yeshe.

/magnus

Bosses are powerful beings like dharmaphalas and so, not us in general.

By the way, everything is always done through yidam, not through our ways. If we can't control ourselves ¿how can we hope to control others? Hahah

"Emptiness" without compassion is not real emptiness.
"Compassion" without emptiness is not real compassion.

If we have a job, we have a boss, if our boss commits to something, we are bounded to act accordingly. In the 8 clases it is like the same. Thats the point.

The local protectors and the 8 classes are not working for us, we are not their boss. We are pacifying them with our offering. If they really like you maybe you can become their boss like Nubchen Sangye Yeshe.

/magnus

Bosses are powerful beings like dharmaphalas and so, not us in general.

By the way, everything is always done through yidam, not through our ways. If we can't control ourselves ¿how can we hope to control others? Hahah

That's correct. 'You' don't. After self-generation, the deity is key to the process.
This is how people with no transmitted deity or dharmapala practice get problems when they interact with spirits, perform Phowa etc.
Do only what your Guru has taught you to do. For example, making offerings to Rahula as part of the Thun rituals you have been given is fine, but if you go off on your own and try to have a deep and meaningful relationship with Rahula using offerings and sadhanas you have not received from your Guru, and for which you are not ready, you place yourself in danger.

That's correct. 'You' don't. After self-generation, the deity is key to the process.

Indeed!!!

"My religion is not deceiving myself."Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

I think it's more about the assumption: are we assuming that the connections will result in our regression or their awakening? I favor the latter view, but it's not like I go looking for the more malevolent ones.

Wouldn't this really depend on who you are, the nature of your relationship, and who the spirit is?
I think we can all agree that pagan deities are far more powerful than we are, but to use an analogy utilized earlier in this thread, this is not that different from maintaining a relationship with a powerful human being.

The best place to look at for these sort of interactions are places like Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, etc. How many staunch Buddhists in these countries worship Brahma, Durga, Shiva, etc.? How many shrines of these deities are presided over by Buddhist monks?

We humans seem to be a lot more fascinated with criticizing the religious decisions of others than making our own real.

This criticism is really just a form of elevating ourselves and diminishing others. As we know that this is directly contrary to the Mahayana teachings, shouldn't we be more concerned with our own self-grasping than what other sentient beings choose?

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

We humans seem to be a lot more fascinated with criticizing the religious decisions of others than making our own real.

This criticism is really just a form of elevating ourselves and diminishing others. As we know that this is directly contrary to the Mahayana teachings, shouldn't we be more concerned with our own self-grasping than what other sentient beings choose?

I'm sorry if my OP was taken as criticizing the choices of others.

There is a context to the question, but it's irrelevant to the specific question I was asking.