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Looks like I'm the only one who liked the episode. For me this was the first episode in ages where I felt that *most* of the characters were acting in ways that felt well-thought-out and consistent.

But I am torn, because from an overall story and series standpoint things seem unlikely to end well, and for the life of me I'm not sure what the point of all this has been (or will be). The cleanest end I can see is some kind of deus ex machina that has Eureka (and Renton?) somehow showing up to lead the scubs back home peacefully....

So, is it safe to say that the only characters we're going to see from the original are Eureka and Renton? Because I think that's what this is trying to tell us: for a sequel, it doesn't care about anyone but the very main characters.

For those who have not watched the episode, you might want to stay away. Meanwhile...

Spoiler:

The mecha section confirms that "codename Kanon" is an LFO like Nirvash TypeZero, and not a IFO like the normal E7AO mechs. But I guess that was obvious when Truth talked to it and learned that it is an Archetype.

So, is it safe to say that the only characters we're going to see from the original are Eureka and Renton? Because I think that's what this is trying to tell us: for a sequel, it doesn't care about anyone but the very main characters.

FWIW, it seems like "Kanon" always had that weird form, though we don't know for sure that it was black like that when it first appeared b/c the "old photos" were all black-and-white.

As an inveterate speculator, I'd surmise that the actual story here is going to turn out to be that a war broke out in the original series universe, inadvertently(?) spilled over to the Ao-verse thanks to dimensional shenanigans, but then turned into a real mess due to temporal shenanigans (apparently getting the time right when you travel between dimensions is very difficult).

I've waited for answers to these questions since episode 14, but it looks like I won't know until the end, and its frustrating. I can't believe we had to wait this long.

I do agree on some level I think it would have added a more "heroic" payoff feel that I think people wanted if they had been more focused on connecting everything and resolving the mystery aspect early in the second half rather than continuing with the mystery aspect the rest of the way by giving us answers to those earlier questions so that they could have built up a second set of new questions after solving those ones we'd already been theorizing about rather than more foreshadowing and leaving all the answers for the end (like giving us Elena's true history early in the second half so that we could see her perhaps bond with Ao over it whether she's Eureka's or Anemone's or whatever or bringing Eureka into the picture permanently from her arrival in ep 13-24 onward and have her stick around and join the fight the rest of the way so she could give us a full context of humanity vs Scub Coral vs Secrets vs Truth and give us more to "root for as the grand scale of what this all means" rather than have to leave again) and as such have to build a second layer of questions which would really make you feel the "payoff" of reveals multiple times like when Eureka cleared up a few things during her arrival.

I think the mystery aspect worked really well in the first half but I could see how I think the snappy pacing (IMO) made it feel like we'd be getting answers sooner than we have rather than leaving most of them for the end and then getting a "rallying" last quarter of the show as "aww yeah, the heroes rallying together, that's satisfying to see" or at least a second set of new questions.

Or something like that.

All-in-all I've still been really enjoying the show, the characters (particularly on the Ao/Gen Bleu/Gazelle side) and the action and overall story.

Even as a stand-alone series, this has been horrible. This is something that Lindelof would write, and I say that in the most negative connotation possible. The plot is a mess, characters have incomprehensible actions and there isn't a sense of reasoning behind a good chunk of this, mysteries seem to be there just for the sake of being there, and there doesn't really seem to be any sense of tension or of anything really.

Even as a stand-alone series, this has been horrible. This is something that Lindelof would write, and I say that in the most negative connotation possible. The plot is a mess, characters have incomprehensible actions and there isn't a sense of reasoning behind a good chunk of this, mysteries seem to be there just for the sake of being there, and there doesn't really seem to be any sense of tension or of anything really.

Well it's a good thing I stopped taking comments from this thread seriously a long time ago. It's like none of you can could up with any worthwhile constructive criticism without sounding butthurt that the series isn't going the way you want it to.

Well it's a good thing I stopped taking comments from this thread seriously a long time ago. It's like none of you can could up with any worthwhile constructive criticism without sounding butthurt that the series isn't going the way you want it to.

What would you like me to break down? The flaky behaviour of the lead? The mystery components that add on with little in the way of resolution? The shit that happens offscreen but is added purely for twist purposes? The crappy villain who has no clue what he's doing and seemingly gets revives for absolutely no purpose? Tell me what you want me to break down.

I haven't even touched the lackluster(pretty much non-existent) characters like Naru or the dropped plot threads.

Alright, the Okinawan independence. That was dropped quicker than hell with a couple of lines despite them spending a good chunk of the first three episodes on it. Then we've had no development on the Ivica/Big Blue World component. On that note I could cite a lot of stuff from different characters such as the whole Elena/Miller plotline. Goldilocks were flat out written out of the show, probably because the writers didn't know what to do with them. It would be like a character dying on another show and pretty much nobody talking about them. I also want to say everything about the OG Nirvash but it seems they might start explaining that next episode. There is a good five or six other things I'm thinking about but they should by any sane measure start to address them.

A plot thread that was brought several times a few episodes ago and will be initiated again with this episode and the next one. While it's not a great deal of importance to the plot it's something used as a worldbuilding prospect which ties into the politic aspect of the plot which we're gonna get into again next episode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Then we've had no development on the Ivica/Big Blue World component.

Wrong again. Considering they had not shut up about the BBW for the past several episodes now and the fact that we've known of their financial backing of GB since the first few episodes it's pretty silly for you to use them as an example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel

On that note I could cite a lot of stuff from different characters such as the whole Elena/Miller plotline.

What about it? Elena killed Miller and masqueraded as her conveying information to the Allied Forces, just something to add as a layer to Elena's character and reveal that she wasn't what it seems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Goldilocks were flat out written out of the show, probably because the writers didn't know what to do with them.

Well obviously you've been not paying attention at all since Maggie is still part of the conflict. They were used to show off the effects of the Quartz Gun and why it's dangerous. Would count this as a strike but these aren't really plot threads.

A plot thread that was brought several times a few episodes ago and will be initiated again with this episode and the next one. While it's not a great deal of importance to the plot it's something used as a worldbuilding prospect which ties into the politic aspect of the plot which we're gonna get into again next episode.

They've only mentioned it once or twice in passing. The last time being that the Independence movement had died down and that's it. All of that happened offscreen. For something so focal that they wasted a good chunk of the introductory arc, it got a quick couple of lines. It added nothing in the sense of the worldbuilding as nothing came of it. Now it's possible they might try to reintroduce it again, although I don't know how considering they stated the movement was over and done with. That's unlikely though as it's going to be focused primarily on Japan as a whole against the Allied forces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChocoBar9

Wrong again. Considering they had not shut up about the BBW for the past several episodes now and the fact that we've known of their financial backing of GB since the first few episodes it's pretty silly for you to use them as an example.

Nope. They've mentioned BBW in the sense of how it related to Gen Blue not Ivica in particular. Ivica's whole storyline and how it relates to BBW hasn't been touched yet. Try again.

What about it? Elena killed Miller and masqueraded as her conveying information to the Allied Forces, just something to add as a layer to Elena's character and reveal that she wasn't what it seems.

So you admit that they didn't do jack with it? That's part of the problem as a whole in that they devoted singular episodes to characters and then not follow through with it. Same with Ivica and Fleur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChocoBar9

Well obviously you've been not paying attention at all since Maggie is still part of the conflict. They were used to show off the effects of the Quartz Gun and why it's dangerous. Would count this as a strike but these aren't really plot threads.

Just having the character physically show up but have no emotional component or relation to her prior incarnation is absolutely pointless and doesn't even work on a fanservice level. This is stuff Stephen King pulls. There is nothing inherently unique or even similar to her prior incarnation that you could say that the Quartz Gun shot progressed her character.

I could list all the unresolved plot points but that's different from dropped. Unresolved plot points would be as followed:

Why did Truth not think he was a Secret even though his abilities would have pointed to that?
How is Truth able to merge with theEND?
Where did Naru get her powers?
What has Naru been doing?
Is Elena the girl that Eureka was seemingly pregnant with and where did Ao come from?
How did Elena end up on this side and why would Eureka not mention to Ao that he had a sister?
Where is Renton?
What are the Secrets and where did they come from?
What was that destroyed Nirvash that we saw?
Where the hell did theEnd come from as it was destroyed in the first series?
Is it a time loop or a dimensional jump?
What is going on the other side(original world)?
Where did the Scub Coral come from and why haven't they learned anything from the original series?
Why is OG Nirvash around?
What the hell is the Quartz Gun?
What are the Quartz things anyway?
How was that guy able to see the Trapar lines?

Note they only have 4 episodes left to resolve all of this so either get ready for some huge exposition dumps or a lot of unanswered questions.

They've only mentioned it once or twice in passing. The last time being that the Independence movement had died down and that's it. All of that happened offscreen. For something so focal that they wasted a good chunk of the introductory arc, it got a quick couple of lines. It added nothing in the sense of the worldbuilding as nothing came of it. Now it's possible they might try to reintroduce it again, although I don't know how considering they stated the movement was over and done with. That's unlikely though as it's going to be focused primarily on Japan as a whole against the Allied forces.

The subject has done what it needed to do. The issue only existed to show why everyone on the island hates Ao and to establish the political turmoil that comes with trapar mining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Nope. They've mentioned BBW in the sense of how it related to Gen Blue not Ivica in particular. Ivica's whole storyline and how it relates to BBW hasn't been touched yet. Try again.

Then you weren't paying attention. They've resolved that. Big Blue World was the PR company that spun the situation in Ivica's home country, and Rebecka was part of that. Over and done, there's nothing else to be said. Ivica knows and doesn't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel

So you admit that they didn't do jack with it? That's part of the problem as a whole in that they devoted singular episodes to characters and then not follow through with it. Same with Ivica and Fleur.

That is doing something with it. She killed her and took her identity. She references it in this episode. She did it because she doesn't know who she is. It's not a very complex or confusing motive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Just having the character physically show up but have no emotional component or relation to her prior incarnation is absolutely pointless and doesn't even work on a fanservice level. This is stuff Stephen King pulls. There is nothing inherently unique or even similar to her prior incarnation that you could say that the Quartz Gun shot progressed her character.

That's because she's developed as a character from here, after having zero development before. The Quartz Gun took her team out of the picture and put the focus on her.

What? Ao's been a surprisingly awesome lead with an impressive backbone and very consistent in his behaviors and has had both tough moments and vulnerable ones.

Ao has been a horrible lead in the backhalf. Decides to go with the Allied Forces and less than an episode later decides to go back with Gen Blue. A complete waste of an episode. Not to mention he was seemingly resolved not to use the Quartz Gun but was just about to at the end of the episode when he was stopped. He's just really there and hasn't exactly done anything.

I do agree on some level I think it would have added a more "heroic" payoff feel that I think people wanted if they had been more focused on connecting everything and resolving the mystery aspect early in the second half rather than continuing with the mystery aspect the rest of the way by giving us answers to those earlier questions so that they could have built up a second set of new questions after solving those ones we'd already been theorizing about rather than more foreshadowing and leaving all the answers for the end (like giving us Elena's true history early in the second half so that we could see her perhaps bond with Ao over it whether she's Eureka's or Anemone's or whatever or bringing Eureka into the picture permanently from her arrival in ep 13-24 onward and have her stick around and join the fight the rest of the way so she could give us a full context of humanity vs Scub Coral vs Secrets vs Truth and give us more to "root for as the grand scale of what this all means" rather than have to leave again) and as such have to build a second layer of questions which would really make you feel the "payoff" of reveals multiple times like when Eureka cleared up a few things during her arrival.

I think the mystery aspect worked really well in the first half but I could see how I think the snappy pacing (IMO) made it feel like we'd be getting answers sooner than we have rather than leaving most of them for the end and then getting a "rallying" last quarter of the show as "aww yeah, the heroes rallying together, that's satisfying to see" or at least a second set of new questions.

Or something like that.

All-in-all I've still been really enjoying the show, the characters (particularly on the Ao/Gen Bleu/Gazelle side) and the action and overall story.

I enjoy the show too. The series feels more like a stand-alone show than a sequel. People who haven't watched the original Eureka Seven could start watching this. We have few links back to the original, but there have been so few. I hope Bones will surprise when starting the connect the dots in future episodes. I think they have set things up like this purposefully to set the stage for a second season. Even the original had two parts to it. If they try to wrap all this up in four episodes, it is only going to turn into a mess. Of course, we won't know until the end.

The subject has done what it needed to do. The issue only existed to show why everyone on the island hates Ao and to establish the political turmoil that comes with trapar mining.

In other words they dropped it. Considering that nothing has come of the political turmoil other than that quick scene with Naru saving the miner, they haven't done anything with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Then you weren't paying attention. They've resolved that. Big Blue World was the PR company that spun the situation in Ivica's home country, and Rebecka was part of that. Over and done, there's nothing else to be said. Ivica knows and doesn't care.

They never stated that he knew Rebecka was part of it and the fact that they haven't brought it up once that he might be uncomfortable working with the people is either lazy storytelling or they're unconcerned with the character. It's a huge tension point that is unresolved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morbosfist

That is doing something with it. She killed her and took her identity. She references it in this episode. She did it because she doesn't know who she is. It's not a very complex or confusing motive.

And that's it. There is no fallout from that. It's just a given fact, atleast with Fleur the accident led to her hating her father. Elena killed her and that's that. No inquiries or emotional stress from that(in fact she was more annoyed that Fleur didn't care enough to ask).

Quote:

Originally Posted by morbosfist

That's because she's developed as a character from here, after having zero development before. The Quartz Gun took her team out of the picture and put the focus on her.

What focus as a character has she had? What new things have we learned that we didn't know prior?

Quote:

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Both of which he rationalizes plain as day. It's the difference between doing what he thinks is best for others as opposed to what he really wants to do. E7AO is hardly the first show to do that.

I suppose that whole freak-out he was having about right and wrong just flew over your head there.

He rationalized the leaving part as he thought it was in their best interests but it essentially took Elena and Fleur doing a quick 3 minute talk to convince him he was wrong. For a path he was seeming determined on, he changed his mind relatively quick.

Considering he was still going to do it is a contrasting point. Especially when you compare his response to Elena when he confidently told her he wasn't going to use it.