Pardew’s eight year contract unspun…

Eight more years for the three wise monkeys.

If you have been reading Newcastle United stories in the media recently, you will probably have noticed the announcement that Mike Ashley has decided to give Alan Pardew and his backroom staff, John Carver, Steve Stone and Andy Woodman eight year contracts.

There has a recent precedent of course, with chief scout Graham Carr having already been given an eight year contract back in June. Both Derek Llambias and his Public Relations assistants in the the local (Trinity Mirror Group) media such as Lee Ryder and Mark Douglas have been getting excited to the point of tumescence about this latest round of contract extensions, with Douglas even having the impertinence to tell we fans, his readers, how we must think and behave from now on. He suggested that like all fans (and unlike Ashley and Llambias), we are simply primitive, bed sheet wielding “knee jerk” creatures of impulse, but that we must now bow down in obeisance to Ashley’s longterm plan and restrain ourselves from any form of criticism should the club have a bad run of results.

However, with serial deceivers such as Llambias, Ryder and Douglas, it is usually more informative to take an close look at what they AREN’T saying as much as what they are. Despite the numerous words on what a forward thinking move this is, how it will bring “stability” to the club etc, there have been none at all on what the exact terms of these contracts are. The devil is in the details, and these are the facts which which will tell us more about what Mike Ashley’s true intentions are with these extensions. Hence it is hardly surprising that there have been no words whatsover about these from the club. Instead, we have Derek Llambias speaking in vague platitudes to Trinity Mirror’s flagship title, the Mirror. In amongst the rest it goes without saying that he didn’t forget his usual disdainful cheap shot at the last 25 years of Newcastle United’s history:

“You look at the last 25 years at Newcastle and it has only known drama, from the highs to the lows. They worked on those glory transfers and all the dramas behind them – glory and bust, with no success. What was the success? It was basically. ‘I’ve signed a player!’ That has to end. It has.”

Later, he went on to contrast this abject failiure of the Keegan years, the Robson years and so on with the great success he and Ashley have created at the club over the past five years, as well as the success of clubs with managerial stability such as Manchester United and Arsenal:

“There is no coincidence that Manchester United with Sir Alex has been there over 25 years and has created stability and with that has come success, and along with Arsene Wenger stability has come success. What we have achieved over the last five years has been tremendous, we have put a lot into the model, financially we are stable and that will continue and now it’s all about stability on the pitch, and having the right managing and coaching staff and chief scout. It is a fantastic move for us and those individuals.”

Llambias seems to have forgotten that there has been no shortage of drama and instability since Ashley took over the club in the Summer of 2007, with no less that seven managerial changes in that time as well as relegation. Despite this, Ashley and his cipher have persisted with the policy which arguably started all the instablity of the Ashley years so far in the first place, that of repeated dishonesty to the point of compulsion, both to managers and fans. As for Manchester United’s and Arsenal’s “success,” this has nothing whatsoever to do with 8 year contracts. Alex Ferguson has been on a one year rolling contract since 2004 and Arsene Wenger’s current contract expires in 2014. The club have offered Wenger an extension to this, though it is only for three years and Wenger himself seems to be in no rush to sign it. Hence, you can see from the Ferguson example at least, that it is success on the pitch which brings stabilty, not long managerial contracts and PR announcements

He went on to say:

“You can’t keep changing your manager because you have a bad a run.”

This from the man who sacked Chris Hughton despite him getting the club promoted, transforming the club’s scouting operation by bringing in Graham Carr and getting us settled in mid table in our first season. All this because he and Ashley felt that he wasn’t “aggressive” and “horrible” enough for his and Ashley’s tastes.

His hypocrisy continued when he also added later:

“We are pleased, very pleased we are doing something different in football, this eight-year deal is something different in football and it shows our commitment to where we believe we should be. Our model is not rocket science, other Premier League clubs do the same but over a four-year period. We have taken them from a very bad financial position to a very good position which will only get better, and we will continue to strive to make football affordable for our fans and to fill that stadium and by having entertaining football is the way of doing it.”

Actually, it isn’t that different. Kevin Keegan was awarded a TEN year contract by John Hall in the days of the “Entertainers” so it isn’t anything new even in Newcastle, though we all know what happened there! Sam Allardyce also had a similar 10 year contract too at Bolton Wanderers, something he described recently as “a blank piece of paper with little or no expectation.” Despite Llambias’s claim to have taken the club from a “very bad financial position” to a “very good position,” the club is still in more debt now than it was when Ashley assumed ownership over five years ago, being the third most in debt club in the Premership behind Manchester United and Fulham. So, as is the norm with Llambias, practically every word he said above is incorrect.

However, that is just background, and it’s high time I got to the main point of this piece, ie what could be the real reason behind these contract extensions for Pardew, Carver, Stone, Woodman and Carr?

The answer probably has something to do with the fact that Pardew is not on the same kind of salary as managers of similar clubs which are toward the higher end of the Premiership. He is actually on the same kind of salary as the managers of bottom end Premiership “yoyo” clubs, or top end Championship clubs. To put it in perspective, his £450,000 per annum is slightly less than Phil Brown received when he was manager of Hull City several years ago. Even though it is still almost double what his predecessor received, it would be easy for a relatively small club to make a far more lucrative offer to the man who was twice voted as “Manager of the year” last season.

Newcastle’s fifth place finish last term, and the recognition both Pardew, Carr and the rest of the coaching staff received for it will have alerted the parsimnious Ashley, driving him to lock not just Pardew, but also Graham Carr and the rest into as long a deals he could possibly get away with. Of course the reason for this is that any club who had designs on poaching Pardew and the rest would still have to pay hefty compenstion fees even though their salaries are relatively low. It also shouldn’t be forgotten that Roy Hodgson is no spring chicken and Pardew was also tenuously linked with the England position when Hodgson was chosen. Indeed, in Pardew’s response to being awarded his new contract, he expressed a wish to win both a World Cup and a Champions League trophy before he retired from the game, though he acknowledged that winning both would be impossible at Newcastle United, the first for obvious reasons and the second because Newcastle is run on such a tight budget under the Ashley regime

If these are the real reasons for the extensions, I think that it would also be a safe bet to say that the terms ralating to compensation for Ashley in the event of Pardew leaving the club will not be the same as those for Pardew should he be summarily sacked by the gruesome twosome, ie that Pardew or the others would receive their full eight years of salary should they be given the boot. It would also be safe to assume that lawyers would have burned much midnight oil writing exclusion clauses for every other contingency on Ashley’s side.

Now there may be more than a little speculation on my part above, however I am confident that these are far more likely to be the real reasons for this latest development than Llambias’s platiditudinous guff!

144 Responses to “Pardew’s eight year contract unspun…”

Excellent article – as thought-provoking as ever, Worky.
You are certainly the master of the “alternative view” – and it’s refreshing to read some independent thought amongst all the sycophantic mush of the local press and downright garbage of the London media (I just put that last bit in as I know it irritates you LOL!).

If bitching, moaning and conspiracy theories were worth points, we’d win the league every year.

Why do you find it necessary to apply negativity to every piece of slightly good news that comes out of the club?

Contrary to your belief, I really don’t think that Ashley and Lambias stay up all night thinking of new ways to deceive or annoy us (even if they’ve managed to do that without trying occasionally in the past).

The 8 year contract doesn’t guarantee anything but at least its a statement of intent to move away from traditional knee-jerk football club management into a more sane and considered approach.

Lets just wait and see rather than pre-judging and critisising. We have no way of knowing what is in Ashley’s mind, so stop guessing. Optimism breeds success, so can’t we just try that for a change?

“Contrary to your belief, I really don’t think that Ashley and Lambias stay up all night thinking of new ways to deceive or annoy us (even if they’ve managed to do that without trying occasionally in the past)”

In the past 25 years, we’ve finished second in the league and qualified for the CL multiple times. We’ve been home to the PL’s alltime leading scorer and are considered his primary club despite the fact he won the title elsewhere. We’ve appeared in two FA Cup finals. We’ve had a major expansion of the ground. These are facts.

Under AshleyCo, we’ve had a relegation as the low and a 5th-place finish as the high. Oh, but we’re making profits on transfers! F yeah-take that smug victory lap, Dekka!

good article worky, as usual you have to read between the lines, to get to the truth, when any statements come from upstairs.

ashley and co have been here for 5 years, and have caused more drama, in that short time, compared to anything that has preceded it, in the last 20.

the whole 8 year contract thing, what does it really mean?
as most will know, it aint going to be worth diddly s**t, if the results go against them.
the gruesome twosome will move quickly, to give him the spanish archer, if plan cheapo, goes tits up.
and all this eartha kitt, about the fans not giving the management, a hard time.
the fans pay their money, and are entitled to voice their displeasure, what do they think they are running, the stasi?

i think we are being buttered up for another, bombshell around the corner, this is normally par for the course, with this regime.

If you type something into the search box, eg “Newcastle United,” or “Chelsea” you don’t get stories about Newcastle United or Chelsea, instead you get Newcastle United or Chelsea merchandise from Sports Direct’s online shop.

Agree with TJ, every international break with a few weeks before a home game, Bang Ashley and co bombshell us, Ground renaming, removing of newcastle united from east stand and replacing with new sign and sports direct sh*t. This is a butter up as the latest announcement comes about shirt sponsorship being terminated for a new EXCITING sponsorship deal. His new share in JJB, free advertising? I hope to God im wrong. Watch this international break….

On the poll I’m a “Not sure”, simply because – as a Chinese philosopher replied after being asked not so long ago to comment on the effects of the French Revolution – “It’s probably too soon to tell.” That said, I love it when Worky is on his game and gives Ashley and Llambias their sleepless nights wondering how the hell they can silence ungrateful and unruly fans such as these. You make good and valid points though Worky, and another good read.

This blog increasingly reminds me of the “People’s front of Judea”, or is that “The Judean people’s Front”…not sure which…..I welcome the fact that people are free to comment and write what they like and I agree that if someone like Worky decides to get off his arse and bother to run a blog, then all credit to him for that, but sheesh man why do you all care so much? I am the last person to defend Ashley & Co….why would I?…He’s a very rich capitalist who doesn’t need my two pennyworth to help him, but really man this constant diatribe of bile which follows any announcement or lack of announcement from the club is tedious to the extreme. The previous two shysters Hall & Sheperd robbed us blind, [anyone remember the totally worthless £500 bonds], then abused us in public about how stupid we were for buying their tatty replica shirts, and labelled all females of the Geordie species as dogs, then went on to patronise us in the extreme with talk of “11 Geordies on the pitch”. To cap it off they caused the most charismatic [if flawed] lovable manager[s] in the clubs history, to either walk away[KK], or in SBR’s case, be sacked at the beginning of his last season, totally removing any dressing room credibility with the young thugs he was trying to make work for their millions. My god these two latest characters pale into insignificance compared, yet they are still being abused daily on here!
I’m sure they both are completed Tw*ts, but again I say so what?…..Oh that’s right …they lied to us!….dear me!

joesoap, that’s the problem though, we cannot even find a decent dictator, to run the club, it’s simply not fair!
chelsea have got abramovich, who is a right gangster.
the halls and the shepherds were villains, but they did it with more style.
what do we get, a tatty herbert, with a schmat business empire, and who’s tighter than a coat of paint.
we cannot even find a good dictator, to be dictated to.
why can we not have adnan khashoggi, or some other kind of high profile wrong’un?, with a load of money, from ill gotten gains.
we want a right gangster in a suit dripping with bling, and not some fat cnut, in a pair of jeans, with a tesco’s carrier bag.

nah, barry moat hasn’t got the lowie, khashoggi was worth about 70 billion at his peak, but he’s lost a lot of cash since, so thats probably a bad example, but you know what i mean.
we want a proper toerag with cash, who’s in it for the glory.

“The previous two shysters Hall & Sheperd robbed us blind, [anyone remember the totally worthless £500 bonds], then abused us in public about how stupid we were for buying their tatty replica shirts, and labelled all females of the Geordie species as dogs, then went on to patronise us in the extreme with talk of “11 Geordies on the pitch”. To cap it off they caused the most charismatic [if flawed] lovable manager[s] in the clubs history, to either walk away[KK], or in SBR’s case, be sacked at the beginning of his last season, totally removing any dressing room credibility with the young thugs he was trying to make work for their millions.”

All of that is true in itself JoeSoap, but it is fallacious logic. Even if Ashley wasn’t as bad as the previous incumbents (which is debatable), you could use the same kind of flawed logic to argue that Hitler was above criticism because he didn’t murder as many people as Stalin or Mao.

what we have now is a situation, where we are beholding to a bloke, we owe over a hundred million to.
so we just dont know how much he could end up robbing us of, in the future.
if he sells this club down the line, we have no idea how much he could walkaway with.

I can’t remember the last time anyone posted here in praise of Fat Freddie and Desperate Doug – so your comparison between the treatment here of this pair of tw*ts as opposed to the last pair of tw*ts is redundant (your point about F&D making KK walk away is a bit daft seeing as the incumbent lardies did the same thing and it cost the club millions).

Secondly, for all their hideous faults, F&D would never in a million years have dreamt of changing the name of St. James Park, or pulling any other stunt that was disrespectful to the heritage of the club (and the city).

You might say that the current junta is more open in their contempt for the fans than the last one – I’ll give you that.

“You may not mind being lied to, JoeSoap, however there are some people who do have a bit of pride and self-respect and they do.”.

Can you honestly say this is the first time you’ve been lied to? When did you stop believing in Santa Claus & Fairies at the bottom of your garden?…………I didn’t say I didn’t mind being lied to, I fail to see how this pair’s lack of pride and self-respect, have any reflection on how I should feel about myself?… it’s just that I expect nothing else of opportunist business individuals …consequently my business-like approach to the current bunch of liars! Same as the last bunch in my opinion, as they were to the bunch before.

Secondly, for all their hideous faults, F&D would never in a million years have dreamt of changing the name of St. James Park, or pulling any other stunt that was disrespectful to the heritage of the club (and the city)………..repeat above….hence the “Dear Me” expressed in exasperation in my last post!

joesoap are you for real? Asking Toon fans why we care so much and so what if Ashley and Llambias lied? I cant beleive I just read read that. Are you a Newcastle united fan? because it really doesn’t sound like it from your posts!

joesoap are you for real? Asking Toon fans why we care so much and so what if Ashley and Llambias lied? I cant believe I just read read that. Are you a Newcastle united fan? because it really doesn’t sound like it from your posts!…………….HaHa here we go calling into question the fan credentials of anyone who doesn’t want to get the torches out and have the townspeople march on Ashley castle….what a joke!………..

Slightly patronising there Darth. There are alternative views to those widely expressed on here you know. I’ve read this blog for a while and whilst I know that Worky has strong feelings regarding the Ashley regime, I do think he encourages alternative comment….merely giving my opinions folks!

Darth@40….Would you prefer I paraded around with a bedsheet proclaiming all Ashley haters aren’t true toon fans & should never cross the turnstiles of our club again? Or maybe vilifying all those who don’t agree with me, as anti-toon makems or some other garbage. Strange how no-one can ever disagree with the consensus on here that Ashley is the spawn of Satan without coming in for personal attacks on their loyalty as fans isn’t it?

Well well!
A very entertaining exchange.
You certainly stirred the pot Mr. Soap. (devils advocate)
Was going to submitt my two cents, but could’nt drag myself from the Yankee vs Red Sox game, last night.
How bout them Yankees, down by two runs in the bottom of the ninth and blam, two run homer, to tie it.
Then win it in extra innings (bottom of the twelfth)
With one game apiece left, The Orioles (Baltimore) trail by a game, should the Yankees lose to-night and the O’s win, the pennant would be decided by a playoff game.
There’s more to life than getting upset by the (non Geordie) jerks presently running the club.
Who knows we may be bought by a Russian gangster or an oil rich gulf dictator, even a US business shark not unlike Man. U’s Glazers.
Carefull what you wish for!

Joe Soap
You noticed that ?
The fact over a period of time this blog has began to remind one of the leftist language and mores of the fifties.
But hey, birds of a feather, us old Marxists has beens aint about to change.
Course guys like Worky and others just dont get the fact they are politically incorrect at times, actually they do get it but are too stubborn to admitt it.
But hey, it’s just entertainment, plus there’s more truth on this blog than any of the others and that includes the NUFC PR machine.

chuck-how the f were the yankees down to that AAA lineup in such an important game though?! If they get into a save situation tonight it’s gonna be interesting…and by the way, only speaking for myself I’m not PC by choice because PC is a bunch of bs. Dreamed up by people who don’t have the courage to think for themselves to shut down any conversation that makes them uncomfortable.

I hear what Joe Soap has to say and do not doubt his fidelity to NUFC, but I think that there are various shades of Black and White and some fans see some things as more sacrosanct than others, such as retaining the name of SJP for example. To me, the bottom line is that football (like just about every professional sport) has become polluted by $$$ and the plaything of billionaires where attributes such as loyalty, honesty and integrity are discarded to the trash can of history.

Grumpy
Yeah rounders is a bit of a cerebral game, requiring a good understanding of the tactical side.
It’s advantageous to have played it or had a kid who played Little League ball.
Though i know many Brit. and Irish Ex-Pats. who became fanatical fans of the game.
Problem is it has morphed into a marathon length game and now takes at least a third more time to play than in the day.
Both Baseball and US football are the ideal games to show on TV, with TV timeouts where commercials can be shown, ergo the increase in the length of games.
(more commercials = more revenue)
On the other hand Association football can only jam as many commercials as possible between halves, as it’s a game of constant motion.
But being there are over 160 games played in a baseball season, the audience is a bit more relaxed and one can wander off to the kitchen grab a beer, and not worry about what you may have missed.
As you are guaranteed to see a re-run of anything of interest.
Guess baseball to most Brits. is the equivalent of cricket to Yanks.

tuncy
Well i suppose i have to agree that there are those who take PC to a level that turns one off.
However i have noticed things mentioned on this blog, say for instance calling people from South Shields, “Sand Dancers” and yes it’s my opinion most probably dont take umbrage, but the origins are no different from calling French people Froggies or Germans Krouts, Paddies for Irishmen etc.
It’s all racist in nature and i’m sure the average English person does’nt exactly relish being refered to as a Limey.
And this annoying and continuous detrimental reference to Sunderland fans, i find both childish and something that never took place prior to football hooliganism and crowd segregation.
It’s a social phenomena that appeared during the hooligan sixties that is now firmly entrenched.
And a silly one to boot.
Plus it appears to be encouraged on blogs like these.

What on earth do bedsheets, or the rest of that have to do with anything JoeSoap?

Nothing really except that as I said previously, anyone who doesn’t hold the party line re Ashley invariably ends up being slated as some kind of retard [un-pc?] or regarded as a troll. When actually there are more positive ways to view the Ashley period at the club, and some of us wish to do that. If it’s unacceptable to air these points of view then fine it’s your blog, but hey it doesn’t make the point any less valid if people choose to not agree!

“Nothing really except that as I said previously, anyone who doesn’t hold the party line re Ashley invariably ends up being slated as some kind of retard”

Actually, it’s far more the the other way, ie any criticism of Ashley and Llambias’s compulsive dishonesty is usually met with tired old mantras such as “get behind the team”, “go and support the Mackems”, “do you want to go back to the Shepherd days” and of course, the old “bedsheets” cheap shot. Originality is hardly a strong point with most Ashley advocates.

chuck-to me though it’s all about tone and PC requires everything everyone says to be taken at face value. I don’t detect any mean spirit behind the use of terms like bin dippers, sand dancers or various aspersions aimed at mackems in comments here. Once, however, someone on here did use the term “raghead” in such an offhand and blithely superior way that I was taken aback. Interestingly, nobody else seemed to care.

That may well be true, but that could be because there really is nothing new here! There is no conspiracy, he’s just a greedy business man like all the others and his only real driving force is money. That’s not original, they have all done it from McKeag & Westwood through to the present day…we used to just accept it once over.

Joe-see GS there? He disagrees with the “party line” here regularly. But he’s civil and he engages. You came here to tell us about how delusional we all are and proceeded to do your best to further the argument without actually contributing anything. That makes you a troll.

If I’ve been uncivil then I apologise, I only comment on the blogs occasionally, so maybe not being a regular poster comes across as a bit crass when disagreeing directly with others. That’s not what I intended I was meaning to disagree with the concept which is regularly touted on here that Ashley & Co are the devil incarnate, and I’m merely saying that I disagree and feel he’s no different to any of our previous owners in that he wants to make money…he’s just more professional and efficient at doing it!

Are you suggesting there was a golden era , where money was not the prime consideration in professional football?
I think you will find that things have not changed radically over the years and like life in general it has always been a struggle between those paying for the services and those providing them.
I can recall a time when players were called into the managers office and told, you have been sold to Blackburn (or whatever club it was) so pack your bags and dont forget your boots, as you will be playing this weekend.
As for those complaining about to-days pampered players and their generally deamonized agents, it’s called doing business.
Who is to blame the Clubs for paying what many consider outrageous wages, the agents for demanding those wages, tv for their contribution to the pot, or ourselves who pay for it all ,either through pay for view tv or bums in seats ?
A vicius cycle, with everyone equally bearing a certain responsibility.

Tuncy
Yeah i recall both the incident and contributer who made the statement (not that i’m the PC police on here, though some may disagree)
And if my memory doesnt fail me, found it rich that someone with the nom de plume Kamar would be calling people rag heads.
Though from what i remember, he did take a certain amount of stick, for it.

Good article Worky mate.
How the fk dekka can say the Keegan n Sir Bobby years were a failure is beyond me.NUFC became nearly everyone’s 2nd team back in KK’s 1st stint.we played some cracking football,played n got results against some ov europes best ie Barca.2 fa cup finals,granted we just didnt turn up on them occasions,but atleast we had aday out at the twin towers.now it would ov been great if dekka could point out to us fans who have supported the club before him n the fat cnut came here n will still be here when there gone,just how weve been more succesfull since there arrival..fkin idiots…
Giving pards an 8yr contract ffs..think giving Demba Ba a new deal is more important than handing pards n co new deals.
I watched alittle bit ov the lille game last nyt n Debuchy just didnt look intrested n got himself 2yellows n an early shower.Cabaye is the same atm,we need to wrap a deal up for Debuchy in January if we want to see Cabaye playing aswell as he did last season.

Strange that there are those who are fully behind Ashleys parsimonius approach to running the club.
Almost as if they were involved as shareholders, whom i labled “the beancounters”
Personally i’d rather have an Abramavich or a Gulf oil rich guy like Citeh, who chuck their money around and at least win things.
Whats so great about a having a billionaire, who wont spend one thin dime and wins nowt ?

Fair enough, Joe. I have no problem with civil disagreement. I’ve been wrong before, will be again. Just ask my wife. I apologize about the troll thing.

chuck-I hear you about the bean counter thing. It’s why I’m cringing every time I hear the term “moneyball”. I’m naturally gravitating toward the A’s this season because they’re such upstarts-their highest paid player is a rookie on 6M/year. But I can’t stand attributing it to “moneyball”. I’m sick of sports fans who think like accountants.

“Are you suggesting there was a golden era , where money was not the prime consideration in professional football?”

Actually, yes Chuck. You Yanks have always been ruthless capitalists who put the mighty dollar before everything else. However everything really started to change all over the world in the eighties when the economic principles of that other ghastly Austro-German (like Hitler), Friedrich von Hayek, superceeded those of the decent, British John Maynard Keynes. Since then, everything in everything has started to go to hell in a hand basket, including football.

However, I’m not opposed in the slightest to footballers and their coaches earning huge sums if the money is out there, that’s what we pay to watch, and I don’t even mind the commercialisation of other clubs and stadiums, however even in the modern commercialised football paradigm, Mike Ashley a compulsively dishonest, crass, vulgar and tasteless huckster who takes things way too far. Sadly, the modern economic paradigm we now endure enables far too many cockroaches like him to thrive.

“Strange that there are those who are fully behind Ashleys parsimonius approach to running the club.”

Many of them have short attention spans and can only think in the here and now. They blow in the wind and can’t see where things have come from, and hence where they are going to. Whilst we are doing well they will support Ashley, then, when things start to hit a rough patch, they will turn on him and start to realise what a fraud he is.

That’s one of the things I wrote about him in my piece comparing him with Danny Simpson. Defender or not, he gets a bit radged sometimes and is stranger to cards of either colour. He’s not quite as bad as that Big Doug trying to headbutt the referee though

Chuck, in answer to your question, see Worky above. Regarding Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias, unlike the fans, they do not love NUFC. It’s a business, and if it meant selling up and buying something else more profitable, they wouldn’t bat an eyelid and I have little doubt that they would cuss the fans and much else on the way out. I would much prefer to have an owner who genuinely loved the club like the guy at Everton, or Reading, or wherever else. I think that has a huge influence on the way the club is run and certainly the owner’s relationship with the fans.

Paul, it’s not about Newcastle United being a business, or Ashley being a successful businessman, it’s about Ashley being a dishonest huckster who’s made virtually everything through dishonesty.

Dietmar Hopp, the man who took his childhood club, Hoffenheim, from the bottom to the top of German football is also a man who made billions in business with his business software company, mySAP, but I’d take him as an owner any day. He’s just one example.

“he’s just a greedy business man like all the others and his only real driving force is money. That’s not original, they have all done it from McKeag & Westwood through to the present day…we used to just accept it once over.”

JoeSoap, Gordon was one of my parent’s solicitors when I was a bairn.

That’s an interesting point, and a bit of a pet hypothesis of mine, that theres some kind of determinism at work with the kind of owners we get. Too many people in the North East seem to think that only aggressive, somewhat amoral people get on in life, people like Freddy Shepherd and Mike Ashley. It’s the same with coaches too, they often condemned Chris Hughton because they thought he was too “nice” to control the dressing room. Too often in the past, the owners of the club have indeed conformed to that stereotype. However I can tell you from experience that this isn’t always the case.

all this talk of baseball, who was the actor, that was saying cricket was gay?
come on, a baseball get up, is much more camp, than a cricket uniform.
lots of butch blokes, chewing tobacco, scratching their nads.
even the bat is phallic shaped, and somehow seems more gay, than a cricket bat.
what’s going to look more fashionable in a gay club, boring old cricket gear, or them dodgy half mast pants, and pinstripe tunics, i know which one my money’s on.
sorry to all your baseball fans, i’m not having a go personally, but that actor is havin’ a laugh.

“chuck-to me though it’s all about tone and PC requires everything everyone says to be taken at face value. I don’t detect any mean spirit behind the use of terms like bin dippers, sand dancers or various aspersions aimed at mackems in comments here.”

tunyc, “Sand Dancers” is for people from South Shields and is not really meant or taken perjoratively. “Bin Dippers” is usually for Scousers of the red persuasion, but bearing in mind that most Mackems are vagrants who are no strangers to scrabbling though bins in the hope of finding a meagre crust, it can also be applied to them, along with almost any other derogatory description. 😉

Just back from “dahn a pub”, watching the NY Yankees clinch the pennant.
Soh! according to you everything changed in the eighties, when Fred Von Hayeks Austro/German economic principles superseeded those of the decent British Keynesian principles ?
Listen you are preaching to the choir as far as Keynes is concerned, but what the fcuk has that gotta do wih football.
Where little has changed since the days of Hughie Gallagher and before, other than the figures and the fact players have agents.
And yes if you insist we the US are and have been ruthless capitalists, putting the (not so recently) mighty dollar above everything else.
So what ?
Is that some kinda judgement ?

When I was a squaddie I was stationed at a training establishment where we had most of the British ethnic groupings.

The Irish were paddy’s, the Welsh were Taff’s and the the Scots were jock’s. Anyone from the NE were Geordie even the Mackems. Nobody had a problem with this It was quite funny if you called Paddy or Jock across the mess hall and a dozen or more heads lifted up and said, “what”

GS
Took you for hundred pages to realize you did’nt like what you were reading ? Hmmm!
And oh! by the way it was recently disclosed the author of The Tin Drum, Wor Gunter like, was a member of the Waffen SS.
Actually i quite enjoyed the book.

GS-may the Cubs suck for eternity. I’m from St. Louis, and the Cardinals are the only thing we have on Chicago.

Worky-we absolutely have not always been ruthless capitalists. It’s unfortunate that so many have imbibed the political line that’s been so popular here since Reagan that we’ve always been a corporatist nation. In reality, a specific grievance the colonists had with your crown is that they gave unfair protection to certain corporations. Part and parcel of the uncritical reception of this line is that people here generally have no idea that the Boston Tea Party was an anti-corporatist protest. I can’t really blame folks who aren’t from here for not giving enough of a crap to see the U.S. as anything but a pile of stereotypes but when I hear that even from so-called American liberals it really chafes.

Chuck-that’s not news about Grass. He was conscripted at 16 years old. I think these are important details.

The Tin Drum is one of my favorite books. I also thoroughly enjoy Lawrence, especially his travel literature. The Catcher in the Rye is well-written but very glib. A conception of America’s social and demographic problems great for WASPs, not that relevant for anyone else. To each his own…

tuncy
No one was drafted into the Waffen SS, this was an elitist military unit, stricktly volunteers and until late in the war quite restrictive in who they let join.
I di’nt say it was news, but recently, meaning this year sometime.
Agree about Catcher in the Rye, eleven year olds love it apparently, as for Lawrence, when did he become a good writer.?
Presently going back in time and re-reading stuff from years ago, i find stuff in second hand stores and recently picked up a trilogy by Joe Conrad, which i am reading.
Heart of Darkness, Almayers Folly and The Lagoon.
And wonder at the authors brilliant use of what was to him a second language.

Woiky
Land theft, you Brits of all people should know about land theft ?
I find it rich that someone from a country that stole more land throughout the world than anyone, would have the nerve to accuse others of doing what it excelled at.
Namely The British Empire.
Slavery, sure the US was built on the backs of mainly African Americans, with places like the Eyrie canal and RR systems built by immigrant Irish and Chinese.
But we certainly dont have a history of ripping of subjected nations like the British Empire did.
And it was the same British who’s ships made fortunes in the slave trade.
Those who live in glass houses…..

Look you must be mistaking me for a “my country right or wrong type”, the only one i hold any respect for during those revolutionary times is Tom Paine.
The rest were mainly self serving new world aristocrats.
Anyone who could write a decleration that excluded the humanity of Africans, well reach your own conclusions…

But thats not to say, England or Britain was any better, they were getting rich from importing slaves.
And up untill this time, though the world had experienced slavery for centuries of various kinds.
This particular odius system that relegated humans to a a sub human level was worse than anthing that came before.
Never had slaves lost their humanity untill this time.
Why ?
To justfy a system that could exploit their labor and eleviate their owners concious.

Of course the Mills of Manchester, made fortunes from southern cotton and were close to entering the American civil war on the behalf of the Confederacy, in order to protect their industries and markets.
All on the backs of African slaves.