02 WS6 vs 00 Corvette

This is a discussion on 02 WS6 vs 00 Corvette within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; LOL, Typical vette owner. Reminds me of a Cocky Civic owner!! Neither is any better. And yes I compared a ...

My friends older brother always said the same type of shit about his corvette. Claimed that with a tune and exhaust it was making 440 rwhp, and he was afraid of all the power. Finally raced him in my bone stock WS6 and it was dead even till 120. Douchebag

Depends, they could be quicker than that stock for stock depending on the driver. Despite how some knock the vette (and their drivers), the vette's significantly lighter curb weight, handling, superb aerodynamics and overall better build quality make them superior to our F-bodies - period.

LOL, Thats what they say about them :} Im not rich enough to own or drive one!! HAHA But I did just buy a 1980 Vette, Old school FTW!! I think im going to fix it up Pro street Maybe with a turbo setup ( Nothing Big) and give it to my dad, He Deserves a nice ride.

You would have beaten him, for sure. My friend has a '99 with LT, Predator tune, no cats, exhuast, AT car with stock 3.08 gear. At the track I have never lost to this car, probably 6 times we've raced there. I even beat him before either of us had headers.

I've raced a couple f-bodies on the streets and have beaten them from a stop and from a roll. I've seen some F-bodies really fly, though. Raced an F-body back in the day against my pop's '99 auto coupe, and we ran to the top end. He got a huge jump on me - about a 15mph fly-by head start. I went back by him at over 150 mph.

I'm not convinced that the vette is superior in straight line acceleration until 120+. From there, the vette will pull soundly stock vs. stock, and I'm sure it's due to aerodynamics. Still the fastest documented 1/4 mile I've ever heard of from a reliable source is Evan Smith's 12.89 that he pulled from a Z28.

I've raced a couple f-bodies on the streets and have beaten them from a stop and from a roll. I've seen some F-bodies really fly, though. Raced an F-body back in the day against my pop's '99 auto coupe, and we ran to the top end. He got a huge jump on me - about a 15mph fly-by head start. I went back by him at over 150 mph.

I'm not convinced that the vette is superior in straight line acceleration until 120+. From there, the vette will pull soundly stock vs. stock, and I'm sure it's due to aerodynamics. Still the fastest documented 1/4 mile I've ever heard of from a reliable source is Evan Smith's 12.89 that he pulled from a Z28.

Chris

Stock for stock and with equal drivers a Corvette C5 will outrun a similarly equipped F-body in the 1/4. It's lighter, plain and simple. Hence the 109-110mph traps in stock trim.

Stock for stock and with equal drivers a Corvette C5 will outrun a similarly equipped F-body in the 1/4. It's lighter, plain and simple. Hence the 109-110mph traps in stock trim.

Man, where were you when that debate raged a decade ago (it's really been that long). Some stock F-bodies were seeing 12 second ETs, and many argued that the solid rear made for a more efficient drivetrain for transfering power to the ground (both in efficiency and traction). Still I can show you a documented 12.8 from a Z28, can you show me anything faster from any bone stock LS1 Corvette?

Now, I don't know how you similarly equip a Camaro, but I can tell you that my vette is not gonna go 12.8s in any air. I think I *might* be able to get it down into the 12s. 13.2 is the best I've done. I'm no Evan Smith, though.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/magnet123/12.jpg
Now, I don't know how you similarly equip a Camaro, but I can tell you that my vette is not gonna go 12.8s in any air. I think I *might* be able to get it down into the 12s. 13.2 is the best I've done. I'm no Evan Smith, though.

Chris

That last statement had to be the best thing you said in that paragraph. So I would most likely doubt that you would ever see 12's - stock - in your Corvette. Just as I would doubt 99% of others here would turn 12's in a stock F-body. It's definitely possible, just not common.

Just as a reference, Sports & GT took a C5 Convertible to 13.02/109 in bone-stock trim in this article:

You know darn well a coupe or FRC/Hardtop car with equal conditions could run 12's with the right driver, no problem. It has been done before. A moderator over at DigitalCorvettes.com wen't 12.7x in his stock base C5 with video. It's a lighter car with the same powertrain, doesn't take rocket science to figure this one out.

And what I meant by "similarly equipped" is an M6 vette vs. M6 F-body, A4 vs. A4...you get my drift, I hope.

That last statement had to be the best thing you said in that paragraph. So I would most likely doubt that you would ever see 12's - stock - in your Corvette. Just as I would doubt 99% of others here would turn 12's in a stock F-body. It's definitely possible, just not common.

That's good motivation to get it there, but I agree, it's relatively unlikely. I'm going to bring this thread back to life if/when I do so I can rub it in, though. Good motivation! Also, I'm trying to fight off the modification urge on the vette - I don't want to open that can of worms. This'll give me one more reason not to modify.

Just as a reference, Sports & GT took a C5 Convertible to 13.02/109 in bone-stock trim in this article:

That's a solid time, but seems right in line with the quick F-bodies, and a little slower than the '99 example I used. Keep in mind, too that the engine in the '99 doesn't have the LS6 intake, which makes a noticeable power difference (both rated and on dynos). What really surprised me is that the convertible in that article is actually just as light as the coupe models. I wonder if that info is correct.

You know darn well a coupe or FRC/Hardtop car with equal conditions could run 12's with the right driver, no problem. It has been done before. A moderator over at DigitalCorvettes.com wen't 12.7x in his stock base C5 with video.

I'd like to see what Evan would pull out of an '01+ 1LE M6 Z28. I suspect that these were the quickest F-bodies (strongest and lightest). 12.7s? sure. Though documented evidence is a lot stronger than claims. I was a moderator at Stangnet for a few years. Being a moderator alone, in my mind, doesn't make a person's statements more credible. Can a FRC or an '01+ Coupe run 12s? Absolutely. Apparently, so can the F-bodies.

It's a lighter car with the same powertrain, doesn't take rocket science to figure this one out.

Best argument you've got going. Makes sense. No rocket scientists will be needed to help us out with that one. Here's the standard counter-argument: Solid rear axle is more efficient, and plants traction better than standard IRS (so they say). This is enough to compensate for the ~100 lbs difference between a vette coupe and a Z28.

Just curious: What does a 1LE weigh? I couldn't find the info on it, but if memory serves it's around 3250 lbs. That's actually equivalent to my C5 coupe, and at most 100lbs heavier than a C5Z or FRC. Plus, the lighter than usual wheels and tires give it another advantage.

And what I meant by "similarly equipped" is an M6 vette vs. M6 F-body, A4 vs. A4...you get my drift, I hope.

After taking my vette to 13.2 in hot weather, I know I can take at least 2 tenths off of that time in the right weather and with a perfect run I'd like to think I could even get my car to do 12s. I have outrun a lot of "similarly equiped" F-bodies.

The point though, is that while to the average guy vettes are unquestioningly perceived as faster than F-bodies, the truth is that it's such a close race that the blind perception isn't correct, and in all actuality it's very possible that it's actually incorrect altogether. If you are right, and the quickest vettes are quicker than the quickest F-bodies, what would you say that translates to in a 1/4 mile comparison? It seems silly that we'd be arguing over a tenth of a second or less, but I think that's exactly what we are doing. In a "who will win?" thread, for example (and I'm not referring to this specific thread), it wouldn't be correct to jump in and say without looking at the facts that the vette is faster. In this specific thread, for example, the fact that the vette is an '00 and the WS6 is an '02 is a decent advantage for the WS6, though there are also disadvantages that weigh in against the WS6, too.

Just to clarify, I'm not taking the position that, as LS1s go, F-bodies are actually quicker or faster than Corvettes. I really think that car v. car, it would come down to the exact details. I don't know the truth, but I do know that it's so close that I couldn't confidently take either side. I do enjoy the discussion, though.

That's a solid time, but seems right in line with the quick F-bodies, and a little slower than the '99 example I used. Keep in mind, too that the engine in the '99 doesn't have the LS6 intake, which makes a noticeable power difference (both rated and on dynos). What really surprised me is that the convertible in that article is actually just as light as the coupe models. I wonder if that info is correct.

True, but keep in mind that Evan also ran 12.8 in a '98 Z28 (LS1 intake) as mentioned in the very first part of the paragraph, which was quicker than the '01 SS tested in that article.

Originally Posted by Chris Arnold

Best argument you've got going. Makes sense. No rocket scientists will be needed to help us out with that one. Here's the standard counter-argument: Solid rear axle is more efficient, and plants traction better than standard IRS (so they say). This is enough to compensate for the ~100 lbs difference between a vette coupe and a Z28.

Just curious: What does a 1LE weigh? I couldn't find the info on it, but if memory serves it's around 3250 lbs. That's actually equivalent to my C5 coupe, and at most 100lbs heavier than a C5Z or FRC. Plus, the lighter than usual wheels and tires give it another advantage.

Not sure exactly what the 1LE cars weigh? I'm sure someone could chime in on that. I'd say your guess of 3250 sounds about right. Even at that weight though a 1LE still wouldn't be quite as light as a FRC C5, but I do get your drift on the solid-axle vs. IRS subject, though I really think that becomes more of a factor (in the Corvettes situation atleast) when higher power numbers are involved.

Originally Posted by Chris Arnold

The point though, is that while to the average guy vettes are unquestioningly perceived as faster than F-bodies, the truth is that it's such a close race that the blind perception isn't correct, and in all actuality it's very possible that it's actually incorrect altogether. If you are right, and the quickest vettes are quicker than the quickest F-bodies, what would you say that translates to in a 1/4 mile comparison? It seems silly that we'd be arguing over a tenth of a second or less, but I think that's exactly what we are doing. In a "who will win?" thread, for example (and I'm not referring to this specific thread), it wouldn't be correct to jump in and say without looking at the facts that the vette is faster. In this specific thread, for example, the fact that the vette is an '00 and the WS6 is an '02 is a decent advantage for the WS6, though there are also disadvantages that weigh in against the WS6, too.

Just to clarify, I'm not taking the position that, as LS1s go, F-bodies are actually quicker or faster than Corvettes. I really think that car v. car, it would come down to the exact details. I don't know the truth, but I do know that it's so close that I couldn't confidently take either side. I do enjoy the discussion, though.

Chris

Above all I would say there is a 2-tenth advantage for the C5 vs. Camaro/Firebird, mainly because of the weight like said before. In the years of seeing these cars run at the track, and averaging the quickest times out of both cars, the LS1 F-bodies are solid mid-low 13's in the 105-107 range, with the Corvettes being in the lower 13's at 107-109 - M6 cars of course. Of course I know there are many variables to consider. But I will say that I have never seen an LS1 Corvette, Camaro or Firebird go 12's stock, though i'd be honored to!

the chicken s@#% sold the car. but he told my friend that it had 500hp and ran 12 flat stock but all he had was a cold air intake with highway gears on a base LS1 vette. i wish i would have been there when he said that.

Yep, and I'm gonna be honored to bring this thread up some time in the future.

Good response, concur with all except possibly the .2/2mph difference, but then I'm not 100% convinced you're wrong on that either.

Incidentally, would you agree that the SS is usually the slower than the Z28 models? It's the impression that I get. I think they make the same power, but the SS has extra weight, and that "ram-air" hood doesn't ram very much air, as is.

Yep, and I'm gonna be honored to bring this thread up some time in the future.

Good response, concur with all except possibly the .2/2mph difference, but then I'm not 100% convinced you're wrong on that either.

Incidentally, would you agree that the SS is usually the slower than the Z28 models? It's the impression that I get. I think they make the same power, but the SS has extra weight, and that "ram-air" hood doesn't ram very much air, as is.

Chris

As far as the LS1 cars go, ram-air and non ram-air cars are identical as far as acceleration is concerned, unlike the LT1 cars in which the ram-air setup was worth a few tenths over the base Z28 and Firebird Formula and T/A.