I read the pages of responses, I'm not a mama yet, but one thought kept coming up for me over and over:

Isn't all parenting making changes to a child without consent? Most of it isn't physical but is it any less important?

What I'm trying to say is part of parenting is teaching your children your culture, your values, your viewpoints, your religion. Heck, even teaching them about other cultures, other values, other viewpoints, other religions is about what *you* as the parent want. For most parents, regardless of their culture/value/viewpoint/religion, they make these decisions with an eye towards helping their child become the best person that they can be.

To me, this question is about what the parent values. Only a parent/family can make this decision. Dh and I were both teased by peers and will parent our child/ren through that lens. Whether that involves making decisions about appearance, confidence, and self-esteem we can't remove from our experiences from our choices.

I think that part of parenting is opening one self up for the greatest amount of criticism a human being can possibly take. Children whether adult or not have to work through the blame they feel towards their parents for the decisions their parents made. I think that is a part of separating from ones family, maturing, and making peace.

There is no right answer. Your child may blame you for either decision. Your child may thank you for either decision. Your child may do both things at different points in life.

The fact that you are thinking and weighing this decision is what matters. The choice you ultimately make, to me, is not the important part. That you can look your child in the eye and say, "We chose X course of action because we wanted what was best for you and that is what we thought was best," is what parenting is all about.

I wish you peace as you go through this process and with your decision.

I may not have said this online, but I often consider not fixing them, not because its general anesthesia, or because it's without her consent, or because who cares what her kindergarten classmates think of her...but because she came with them...and I kind of love them the way I love everything else about her. Maybe I'm being way too sentimental about them. (and I haven't even had any champagne tonight!).

I loved this!! I also loved your post before this one. You really got what I was saying, and I not good at internet communication!

You feelings are so wonderful. I went back and forth so often about the capillaries. Part of me loved them because.... well, because it was HIM.... I remember tracing them and rubbing his cheeks when he nursed and I remember how much warmer his cheeks were because of them. When it came right down to it though.... I loved them because I was his mother and loved him before I ever laid eyes on him. It isn't that they made him unlovable by others, it was that he (or his peers) would probably not love them in the same motherly way.

I should also add that my son has a small port wine stain on his leg. It goes from his ankle to about half way up the side of his calf. We had him put under GA, in a laser room with a doctor, and CHOSE NOT to have it removed. It is on his leg and I really felt differently about that. I think the capillaries being on his FACE, knowing there was never going to be any choice involved in whether he showed them to people, and that everybody he ever met would see them and wonder about them, made them different.

I remember thinking one day.... "Should I make this choice to have them removed?" It seemed like that was the only "choice" involved. Then I realized that leaving them on was a choice as well... the choice to have them. I stopped looking at keeping them as the default position, and started looking at two choices. I have no idea if that made any sense.

I was talking with someone close to me once about this issue. I remember saying.... "I am having such a hard time putting him under GA (even if only for 15 minutes) for something that isn't necessary." She said.... "Just because it isn't necessary doesn't mean that is isn't reasonable and the right choice for him."

Best of luck Momma!! I remember those days of trying to decide what to do and you feel like both decisions are wrong in some ways and right in some ways. It was the hardest decision I ever made as a parent. Just that you are thinking about it so much means that whatever you decide you will do so with love and a plan in place to make it work!

It would, of course, not be done on an infant. We're thinking in the "year before kindergarten" age range at the earliest.

Ah, that makes a difference. I did think you were considering surgery in infancy.

I think you should forget about it for now. How you (and she) feels when she is closer to the age of surgery may be very different from how you imagine. I worried about my dd's eyes becoming a problem (a target for teasing), and it never manifested as a major issue. She was clearly "readier" for the surgery at 8, and the decision was much easier to make when the time was right.

And I can relate to loving her "as is"! When I look back on pictures, and see my dd's eye wandering off to the side, that was very much her. I'm glad it is no longer an issue for her, but I get a little nostalgic for that imperfect gaze when I see the photos

It makes me sad that so many people seem to think teasing would be an issue. I think there is a good possibility teasing may never be an issue at all. If it were my child, I'd address any teasing issues that did come up the same way I would if they were teased for their hair, or freckles, or clothing, or shoes. And it wouldn't be to change them. Though if they wanted to we would discuss the possibilities. I've taught my children from very young that teasing is unacceptable and everyone is unique. We come in all shapes, sizes, and colors, with differing capabilities, beliefs, and needs. I personally wouldn't consider having my child get cosmetic surgery for anything that didn't affect function. However, I also don't feel at all against other parents making the decision to do so. I really do think most people, including children, are above teasing in a mean way. But maybe I'm naive. I want to teach my children they can make changes to their appearance that they are comfortable with and desire, but hopefully not because someone is rude, insensitive, and self-centered enough to tease or bully. I was teased a bit by a few wayward people myself, for having zits, a haircut like a boy (twice ), and "mosquito bite breasts", lol, among other things. I really couldn't have cared less what those people thought. I felt much more sad and sorry for them that they didn't know better than I ever did for myself. Even though I still have awful skin, and would rather I didn't, lol. It is just part of me and not a big deal. My loved ones could care less what I look like and that's the way its always been. I think its much more likely other children will innocently ask questions as they want to get to know your child, as they would about many other things they were curious about. Kids are naturally curious about differences and likenesses.

My dd who is almost 10 has a gap between her two front teeth. A dentist wanted her to have laser surgery to cut the skin between the upper gums and lip. I said no. It doesn't impede her speech or cause any problems. I'd be really sad for anyone who seriously chose not to get to know and love my girl because of a gap between her teeth. She's gorgeous and special and they would be missing out. And they wouldn't deserve her . My own front teeth are crooked and I'm totally glad I wasn't put in braces to correct them. I don't need 'perfect' teeth. I'm a human being, I'm not cut from a mold. And fwiw dd has never had any issues with her teeth, not teasing, not wishing them different. I doubt it has ever crossed her mind.

I don't think I would even worry about it right now. If it wouldn't even be done for years anyway, I would just cross that bridge when you got to it, kwim?

DS has a joint deformity though so I've BTDT. His little legs looked like a pretzel when he was born. Casting took care of most of the bendy-ness, but his feet were at 90* angles and his hips were also developmentally dislocated. Surgery on his feet and hips was a no brainer because of course he needed to have those done to be able to walk. His hands though, were really more a cosmetic thing. On ultrasound, the middle and ring ringer on each hand seemed to be stuck (just like the ASL sign for "I LOVE YOU" ) but after he was born, it was obvious that he could flex them out if he wanted to. We decided it would be best to just let him use his hands. Today, they are a bit "off" but rarely does anyone notice (but that may be because they notice his feet first LOL). His fine motor skills aren't top notch, but that's to be expected anyway because its also a symptom of his brain malformation. You can see here how they kind of curve to the side when he puts his hand down and here how the middle and ring still seem to turn in more when he relaxes them. But again, we decided the surgery and recovery weren't worth straight fingers, especially for a child whose first language is ASL (he is non-verbal).

I also remember another story that relates more to yours... I had a friend who dated this guy in high school who was missing an ear. The first few years I knew him, he wore his hair longer, and I didn't even notice the whole time until he got a hair cut. I never said anything because, really, it wasn't that big of a deal but one day his girlfriend (my friend) mentioned it and I was like "yeah, I never even noticed until he got a haircut!" and she said "really? I thought everyone knew that". See, this guy was a few years older than us, so I didn't know him in elementary. Apparently everyone in his class knew though, from when they were younger, and I NEVER once heard anyone mention it or tease him about it. I'm sure there was the occasional brat in Jr. High or something and maybe that's why he wore his hair long for a few years, but in the end, he was fine with it and no one else cared either (and he had a girlfriend all through high school so obviously he wasn't a social pariah LOL).

If you do decide to leave her ears as-is though, my advice to you would be to help her accept them as part of her. Role play with her and help her come up with a good response for when another child questions her. If she is nonchalant about it, most other kids will follow along. We get a lot of questions when meeting new kids and when I explain (in a way they can understand), they sometimes just say "oh okay!" and continue to play with him or they will keep asking questions, and that's okay too. Its perfectly fine to answer them! Kids really are just curious. Its usually the adults that have the issues.

My dd who is almost 10 has a gap between her two front teeth. A dentist wanted her to have laser surgery to cut the skin between the upper gums and lip. I said no. It doesn't impede her speech or cause any problems. I'd be really sad for anyone who seriously chose not to get to know and love my girl because of a gap between her teeth. She's gorgeous and special and they would be missing out. And they wouldn't deserve her . My own front teeth are crooked and I'm totally glad I wasn't put in braces to correct them. I don't need 'perfect' teeth. I'm a human being, I'm not cut from a mold. And fwiw dd has never had any issues with her teeth, not teasing, not wishing them different. I doubt it has ever crossed her mind.

My best friend in high school had a gap between his front teeth and I thought it was adorable. He didn't like it though and wound up having it filled after high school. I was totally bummed because I couldn't understand why he would want to change it when his teeth were already perfect.

I have crooked teeth too though and wish my parents had gotten braces for me. BUT, its not just a vanity thing, it really is hard to brush and floss properly. If they were just a little crooked, I wouldn't mind. I think slightly-crooked teeth adds character. Mine do not have character though, mine are just a PITA and sometimes physically painful too because my wisdom teeth have no space and they cut into my jaw.

Are you familiar with the Deaf community? All they are saying is that they do not need a device implanted in their skull to be "normal". They are not demanding that other people beome deaf. They believe that they are born healthy, so they don't need changed. It is akin to racial differences. Would life be easier if everyone was white? Sure, but that isn't reason to "bleach" a child's skin.

I am terribly offended by this entire post.

Knee-jerk reactions to such a complex issue don`t hold much water with me either.

It makes me sad that so many people seem to think teasing would be an issue. I think there is a good possibility teasing may never be an issue at all. If it were my child, I'd address any teasing issues that did come up the same way I would if they were teased for their hair, or freckles, or clothing, or shoes. And it wouldn't be to change them.

I agree and don't agree. The growth that was on my son's nose was bright pink and covered about 75% of the top of his nose. From the time it appeared, people commented on it and asked us what was wrong with his nose. When he was a bit older and we were around other kids, it was noticed. Very young kids would stare at him. Older kids would ask what was wrong. While none of this was teasing, it was still enough to make me feel uncomfortable for him. He handled it really well as a very young child. But we decided to get it removed partly because we didn't want to know what the staring and questions were going to progress to as he got older. Even if they never went beyond that, I think it would have affected him in a negative way.

And, we went into it knowing that his nose wasn't going to be made "perfect". We knew there would be a scar. But, the scar is much less noticable than the growth ever was. No one ever notices it and he does not get teased at all. He's a very likable kid with lots of friends. So, now that the issue is much less prominent, I agree with your post. I agree that its important for kids (and adults) to accept themselves the way they are.

But, when a small child has to deal with other kids staring at him apprehensively before they approach him to play or not approaching or backing away when he approached, then that takes the issue to a new level. We wanted the growth removed before he was old enough to internalize these very honest and instictive reactions from other kids. And before the other kids were old enough to verbalize what they were thinking and feeling. Until you've had to see the issue from that side, I don't think you can really have an opinion about never changing your child's appearance. I'm not sure my ds would have grown into the self-confident, wonderful kid that he is if we had left the growth. It wasn't a risk I was willing to take with his self-esteem.

Op - I think you will know in a few years if it's a real issue for your dd. I do think it should be your decision and not hers. Age 4 is too young to make that kind of decisioin, in my opinion. But, I think a few years time will give you a chance to see how things develop, both with her ears, with her feelings and other people's reactions.

ETA - If the growth had been anywhere else other than the center of his nose, I'm not sure what the decision would have been. If it was on the face, we probably still would have had it removed, but if it was under the hairline or anywhere else on his body, it would have stayed.

My daughter (now age seven) has a moderate sized, bright red hemangioma on her face, and I've elected to wait until she's old enough to consent to surgery. So far, teasing has been minimal and rather than being something she's upset about, it's become something she rolls her eyes at. I am (as well) open to the idea of scheduling surgery earlier should it become an issue that bothered her greatly, and she needed us to help her make a decision.

My daughter (now age seven) has a moderate sized, bright red hemangioma on her face, and I've elected to wait until she's old enough to consent to surgery. So far, teasing has been minimal and rather than being something she's upset about, it's become something she rolls her eyes at. I am (as well) open to the idea of scheduling surgery earlier should it become an issue that bothered her greatly, and she needed us to help her make a decision.

Are hemangiomas the type that gradually shrink and go away on their own?

But, when a small child has to deal with other kids staring at him apprehensively before they approach him to play or not approaching or backing away when he approached, then that takes the issue to a new level. We wanted the growth removed before he was old enough to internalize these very honest and instictive reactions from other kids. And before the other kids were old enough to verbalize what they were thinking and feeling. Until you've had to see the issue from that side, I don't think you can really have an opinion about never changing your child's appearance. I'm not sure my ds would have grown into the self-confident, wonderful kid that he is if we had left the growth. It wasn't a risk I was willing to take with his self-esteem.

You're right, I haven't been in your particular situation, nor the OP's. I do completely understand the choice you made and would never call it wrong. My cousin's son had a growth on his nose that was likely a hemangioma (if I'm remembering correctly). It grew quite a bit and seemed like it could be obstructing his vision because of the location. They did opt to remove it, but I didn't ask why. In a case like this I'm sure the questions and reactions would be tiring.

My youngest dd has angel kisses and stork bites birthmarks. At nearly two the ones on her eyelids, nose, and forehead are barely visible, at birth they were very dark and she looked bruised. The ones on the back of her neck and head are dark red. I think they may have faded a little, maybe? Hard to tell with all the hair she has. I can't tell how we would have felt/ been affected if the marks had grown or been different. She also has ears that stick out. And we did get comments and questions, and even blame. Now that she has hair and she is old enough to not be a baby we haven't had any more comments or questions. I would not do anything to change them if there was something to be done about it. She may be self conscious of them or be teased at some point, I don't know. I hope she's confident and strong enough not to care. Here's a pic of my beautiful girls. The marks on younger dd's face had aleady lightened quite a bit by then.

My best friend in high school had a gap between his front teeth and I thought it was adorable. He didn't like it though and wound up having it filled after high school. I was totally bummed because I couldn't understand why he would want to change it when his teeth were already perfect.

I have crooked teeth too though and wish my parents had gotten braces for me. BUT, its not just a vanity thing, it really is hard to brush and floss properly. If they were just a little crooked, I wouldn't mind. I think slightly-crooked teeth adds character. Mine do not have character though, mine are just a PITA and sometimes physically painful too because my wisdom teeth have no space and they cut into my jaw.

Yeah, I'd be sad if dd ever chose to change her teeth, but I wouldn't likely tell her so. And teeth that are painful are definitely a whole other ball game. Sorry you have that problem. I've had a couple of teeth pulled because of pain and would do it again in a heartbeat.

I would not allow surgery for cosmetic ear nubbins on someone who is not old enought o give their consent.

There is a very good chance they will not bother her growing up - so why go through surgery for it?

Yes - it is possible kids will tease her for it, but the fact that ears are not a highly noticeable part of the body lessens the risk.

I had no physical deformities and kids teased the hell out of me when I was younger (I was poor in a rich area, and had poor social skills). Kids are mean that way. DH was teased as a child too - for similar reason. He does have a minor deformity (an extra tooth right in the middle of his mouth...it is a little noticeable but you have to look) and he was never teased for it.

I think kids who are teased are kid who are teased...I do not think for one minute removing an imperfection (unless it is large and in a obvious place) is going to eradicate the teasing. Kids will find something to tease about - size, name, clothes....something.

Obviously, if your DD wants her nubbins removed when she is older, I would go for it and support her.

Isn't all parenting making changes to a child without consent? Most of it isn't physical but is it any less important?

Not less important, but those are not irrevocable, which makes them very different. You can choose to change your values, religion, etc., etc. as an adult, but you can't undo a permanent physical change to your body. So, if we make that choice as parents the repercussions will stay with our children forever, even if they themselves would change it if they could.

That said, I think the only thing we can do is make the best choice we can for our children and trust that even it's not The Right Thing To Do (how can we know that for another person?), we're doing the best we can, and it will all be well.

OP- I was googling ear deformities because I was curious what it may look like and apparently my dd's ears could be considered deformed. They call it lop ear deformity. And there is cosmetic surgery to correct it done under GA. I seriously never would have never thought to consider it a deformity. I've always thought of them as elfin ears . Here are some older pics of her 1234. Here are some more recent pics of her now that she has some hair 1234.

I have to say, no way, no how would I consider surgery for her. Not saying others are wrong for doing so, but I absolutely would not. According to the sites I was looking at, the optimal age for cosmetic surgery of the ear for this would be 5. The ears are done growing and it is before the age most children would encounter teasing, they say. It made me aware of the flip side of the teasing issue that is brought up. It would need to be approached very delicately I think if surgery was done. I would be very mindful of the message cosmetic surgery could send to a kid this age if they were aware of the reason for altering their appearance was for societal reasons.

OP- I was googling ear deformities because I was curious what it may look like and apparently my dd's ears could be considered deformed. They call it lop ear deformity. And there is cosmetic surgery to correct it done under GA. I seriously never would have never thought to consider it a deformity. I've always thought of them as elfin ears . Here are some older pics of her 1234. Here are some more recent pics of her now that she has some hair 1234.

I have to say, no way, no how would I consider surgery for her. Not saying others are wrong for doing so, but I absolutely would not. According to the sites I was looking at, the optimal age for cosmetic surgery of the ear for this would be 5. The ears are done growing and it is before the age most children would encounter teasing, they say. It made me aware of the flip side of the teasing issue that is brought up. It would need to be approached very delicately I think if surgery was done. I would be very mindful of the message cosmetic surgery could send to a kid this age if they were aware of the reason for altering their appearance was for societal reasons.

Your daughter is precious and the baby pics with her cute lil ears remind me of a baby fairy

OP- I was googling ear deformities because I was curious what it may look like and apparently my dd's ears could be considered deformed. They call it lop ear deformity. And there is cosmetic surgery to correct it done under GA. I seriously never would have never thought to consider it a deformity. I've always thought of them as elfin ears . Here are some older pics of her 1234. Here are some more recent pics of her now that she has some hair 1234.

I have to say, no way, no how would I consider surgery for her. Not saying others are wrong for doing so, but I absolutely would not. According to the sites I was looking at, the optimal age for cosmetic surgery of the ear for this would be 5. The ears are done growing and it is before the age most children would encounter teasing, they say. It made me aware of the flip side of the teasing issue that is brought up. It would need to be approached very delicately I think if surgery was done. I would be very mindful of the message cosmetic surgery could send to a kid this age if they were aware of the reason for altering their appearance was for societal reasons.

I agree very much with this post!
12 yr old DD has a few cosmetic issues (ears, teeth, the right side of her lower lip dips down when she smiles or cries, slight club foot, etc), but I've never considered fixing her up until she consented herself. When she was around 7 or 8, her dentist wanted me to take her to a pediatric orthodontist to have some teeth pulled because her permanent teeth were/are coming in all wonky. I asked DD then if she wanted to start working on her mouth at that time.. she refused. Everyone kept telling me (and still do) that I HAVE to do something or I would regret it later. I'm sorry, but as long as DD can chew adequately, it's just not my decision to make. If she wants to keep her crooked teeth, I feel that that is her decision. She is beginning to show some interest in getting them worked on, but until she gives me the final word, I'm not about to force the issue on her.

For me.. as far as physical deformities go, unless it is causing pain for my child or severely hindering their enjoyment of life, it's simply not my place to make that decision for them. They can almost always make a decision later on to remove things.

BTW, MissRubyandKen, your DD's ears look very much like my DD's when she was younger. When she was first born, hers were quite pointy and everyone jokingly said that I must have slept with Dr. Spock from Star Trek. By 6 months, they weren't as pointy (you can also see her lip issue well here), but definitely still had a bit of an elfish look to them. The older she gets, the less pointy they are. Her ears are definitely more rounded out now, but they do stick out a bit more. She has only complained once or twice about them, but tends to wear her hair down most days. She does complain about her crooked smile at times, but it's something that she has learned to deal with well by actively forcing the other side of her mouth down a bit more.. basically, she's learned to control it a bit better.

Are hemangiomas the type that gradually shrink and go away on their own?

Hers unfortunately fell into the 2% group that continued to grow after the first year, and has shown zero signs of involuting on it's own. So it's super bright red, and while it's stopped growing at this point, it hasn't shown any sign of going away.