Comments on: Supremacyhttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/
The Life and Art of VernTue, 14 Aug 2018 14:21:55 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8By: Matthew B.http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379763
Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:47:11 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379763Rogue4: You’re quite right. The IRS didn’t file “Progressive,” “Acorn,” and the like in the same subcategory as “Tea Party” on its Be On the Look Out watchlist, and thus did not include them in its 2013 report ― even though the left-wing groups, too, had faced three-year processing delays and improper questions. This is precisely why that 2013 report gave a distorted view of the situation, and precisely why they followed up in 2017 by looking at their other political cases (both left and right).

Your potted history of the ACORN controversy somehow neglects to mention that the anti-ACORN videos were deceptively edited and partially faked, that the guy who made them had to pay out $100,000 in a libel settlement, and that multiple investigations cleared ACORN of criminal wrongdoing.

Your potted history of Emerge is correct. Many (not all!) of these groups were trying to influence elections, and as a result the IRS refused to give them tax exemptions. Of course, this is also what happened with the Tea Party groups. Remember how horrified you were that they were scrutinised “during an election year”?

…that ACORN? So you’re suggesting that ACORN making the Be On the Look Out list represents as legitimate an example of unfair targeting/heightened scrutiny/delays as given conservative groups being subjected to such? Kinda goes a long way towards that fudging on the details point. To wit, the BOLO list itself was divided into different categories.

“Perhaps not surprisingly, the ACORN listing appeared in a different section of the BOLO lists than the one for tea-party organizations. The former appeared on the list under the rubric “TAG,” which the materials released by the Democrats themselves indicate was intended to designate organizations to be weeded out for being involved in “abusive tax avoidance transactions” or “activities [that] are fraudulent in nature.” The listing appeared after hidden-camera video showed ACORN employees advising a couple, posing as a pimp and a prostitute, about how to evade taxes and prevent authorities from discovering their activities, which they claimed included human trafficking and child prostitution. It comes as no surprise that, after Congress voted in 2009 to pull ACORN’s federal funding, the IRS would make moves to avoid granting tax exemption to offshoots of the original, corrupt organization.” Tea-party groups, by contrast, had done nothing to merit special scrutiny.”
By contrast, tea parties remained under the “Emerging Issues” heading of the BOLOs. That’s where groups whose applications related to “significant current events” or for whom “no established tax law or precedent has been established” were listed. Unlike several others listed on that tab, tea-party groups saw their applications automatically elevated to IRS higher-ups for scrutiny. Even the higher-ups couldn’t do their work because, we now know from their testimony, officials even more senior prevented them from carrying it out. So tea-party applications languished, some for over three years, while officials at the top level of the IRS worked diligently (in a charitable reading) to establish a precedent for them, or simply slow-walked them beyond both a midterm and a presidential election”

“The IRS initially granted tax exemption to the progressive group “Emerge America” but revoked that status in the spring of 2010 when it came to the attention of agency officials that the group is devoted to training women to run for office as Democrats. The group has several state offshoots, including “Emerge Maine” and “Emerge Nebraska”; screeners were instructed to flag those applications because the agency was in the process of revoking the exemption of their parent group. A spokeswoman for Emerge America told Salon’s Joan Walsh in May:

Emerge America and its initial state programs were granted 501(c)(4) status by the IRS several years ago. Later, when a new state program applied for the same status, it was denied because Emerge works only with women who are in the Democratic Party, so the IRS determined this did not meet the definition of “social welfare” for the common good. We believed this denial triggered a review of the Emerge programs that had already been granted c4 status, and consequently those statuses were revoked. Becoming 527 organizations has not hurt our fundraising or organizational expansion — we report our donors and continue our work fully transparently.
David Marshall, an attorney in the IRS chief counsel’s office, supported the agency’s decision to revoke the group’s exemption. He had the following exchange with congressional investigators about the “Emerge America” cases:
Q: And was the issue in that case the level of political activity? A: There was no question in my mind that there was political activity in that case. Q: Enough activity to deem it — A: It was clearly — it was clearly a problematic case. It was decided that it would be denied based on private benefit.
The IRS chief counsel’s office took seven months to come to this conclusion and, during that time, the “Emerge America” affiliates that had already received tax exemption continued to operate with that status.

I know, I know, there I go citing 2013 stuff again, but I’m not co-signing on the premise the latest TIGTA report supplants, as opposed to supplements the prior findings. Given the misleading, not so detailed nature of its details, maybe it doesn’t do such a good job of that either.

]]>By: Sternsheinhttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379758
Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:02:28 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379758Also Nazi’s and alt right people protesting are pieces of shit the same as anybody who destroys property in a protest. With that said, antifa members are still better than Nazi and Alt Right pieces of crap.
]]>By: Sternsheinhttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379757
Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:00:27 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379757I will say this, political groups and religious institutions should never get text exempt status.
]]>By: Matthew B.http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379744
Sat, 10 Feb 2018 06:18:44 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379744Rogue4: You want statistics? Fine.

61 groups were targetted for political investigation by the IRS due to the keyword “progressive.” Of these, 41 were put through questioning. 8 endured lengthy processing times (one year or more). 8 applications were refused or withdrawn.

There are other more issue-focused keywords (“green energy,” “medical marijuana,” etc.), but I’ll skip over those.

Unfortunately the 2013 report does not provide similar statistics, but it does give the number of cases for three right-wing keywords. 72 groups were investigated for using the term “tea party,” 13 for “patriots,” and 11 for “9/12.” Beyond that, we can’t make direct comparisons. The 2017 report did look at one Tea Party-linked phrase, though.

“We the People” ― cases: 9; questioned: 8; long wait: 7; not approved: 2, including one case in litigation.

The main takeaway from all this is that right-wing and left-wing groups got broadly similar treatment. Contrary to the claims of Hotair.com above, many more than seven left-wing groups were scrutinised, many more than zero were left in limbo, and many more than zero were denied tax exemptions.

]]>By: Rogue4http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379741
Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:12:39 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379741I could say I’m not sure why you think that amounts to a refutation of the premise that it was conservative groups that were overwhelmingly put thru the ringer in the IRS targeting scandal, as its been shown that the “keyword hits” aspect doesn’t come close to telling the whole of the story… but that would be a bit disingenuous. The leftist misdirection/obfuscation hussle is ubiquitously familiar at this point. But you’re certainly welcome to flesh out in detail how many of those “progressive”, “green energy” groups were subjected to overly invasive questioning, inspections, had their applications held up in limbo for inordinate amounts of time, or denied the status outright.

And Crush, you’re welcome to cite where I’ve ever put forth such.

]]>By: Crushinator Joneshttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379738
Fri, 09 Feb 2018 22:10:09 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379738You’re wasting your time talking to Rogue4, he’s famously one of those “taxation is theft” morons.
]]>By: Matthew B.http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379718
Fri, 09 Feb 2018 06:45:00 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379718Rogue4: I’m not sure why you’re citing two 2013 stories that predate the 2017 IRS report on their targetting of groups that used “progressive,” “green energy,” and the like in their names. Only 10 of those groups were also considered in the 2013 reports about right-wing keywords. The only story you link from 2017 is the townhall.com editorial, which bizarrely takes the 2013 data as if it were still complete. It isn’t.
]]>By: Rogue4http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379717
Fri, 09 Feb 2018 03:21:48 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379717Okay Matt, lets take that walk thru the smoke and mirrors…

This part’s pretty instructive:
“To recap: Conservatives won the “who got scrutinized” category 104-7, the “who got rejected” column 54 percent to zero, and the “still in limbo or gave up” tally 56-0. Indeed, as this controversy unfolded, a USA Today analysis determined that over a 27-month period, not a single Tea Party tax-exempt application was given the green light, while “dozens” of liberal applicants were rubber-stamped.”

]]>By: Albert Hitchcock's Slim Cousinhttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379695
Thu, 08 Feb 2018 20:03:16 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379695This sounds like a dull copy of “Fight for Your Life”.
]]>By: Jakehttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379678
Thu, 08 Feb 2018 05:27:40 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379678I do agree that the IRS shouldn’t single out political groups based solely on names with no evidence of wrongdoing. Though if you want to avoid IRS scrutiny I question the logic of naming your political group after America’s most famous tax evaders.

As for the movie, I haven’t seen SUPREMACY but I thought FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE was great, if you’re in to they-sure-don’t-make-’em-like-that-any-more sleaze.

]]>By: Matthew B.http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379677
Thu, 08 Feb 2018 04:13:26 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379677Rogue4: The IRS’s final report doesn’t break down the groups by political affiliation, but when, e.g., 72 groups were investigated for having “tea party” in their names and 61 were investigated for having “progressive” in their names, that doesn’t look like a 95-5 split to me. I’m also confused by your anxiety about election years, given that (a) this was going on during non-election years too; (b) the IRS decided to do this on its own, and the White House had nothing to do with it; and (c) the entire reason behind the investigations is that these groups are either legally forbidden or heavily restricted from interfering in election campaigns, depending on what kind of tax status they want.
]]>By: Rogue4http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379675
Thu, 08 Feb 2018 01:12:03 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379675And I freakin love, Crush, how you and likeminded individuals can inflate the tragedy in Charlottesville into this asinine fallacious narrative of a national siege of nazis rampaging in force through the streets, menacing and terrorizing with impunity… who were curiously non-responsive to the two time election of a suspiciously tanned President. Buuuut speaking of acting out with impunity…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ-Vmdd2ubQ

Yep, just look at all those innocent falsely maligned anti-fascist freedom fighters. Go ahead and jump in any time with some clips of those dirt-bag tea partiers partying like this, Stern, to flesh that “they deserve it” assertion

]]>By: The Winchesterhttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379672
Wed, 07 Feb 2018 23:44:21 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379672Sounds like a flick thats trying for something and while it might not succeed entirely, is at least admirable. Plus, ive loved Anderson since Crazies, so I’ll check this one out. Thanks Vern.
]]>By: Crushinator Joneshttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379670
Wed, 07 Feb 2018 22:52:38 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379670Right, but that same logic will be used to scrutinize Black Lives Matter and kick the shit out of Standing Rock protestors or whatever when the right is in power (and it is being used that way, right now) – they “deserve” it. Don’t use enforcement as a weapon, you won’t like where it goes. The right-wing will always one-up the left at using the power of the state to utterly smash their enemies, it’s in their brain chemistry.
]]>By: Sternsheinhttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379668
Wed, 07 Feb 2018 20:49:46 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379668I have no problem with right wing groups being scrutinized over liberal groups. They deserve it.
]]>By: Crushinator Joneshttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379665
Wed, 07 Feb 2018 16:54:00 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379665I freakin’ love that getting audited because of your political affiliation is ” the most brazen and profound betrayal of the very concept of a free society imaginable” in Rogue4’s mind.

You could have picked Obama unilaterally killing Americans in the Middle East with no due process, but no, it’s the taxman checking the books because of your political affiliation that’s the real crime here. And of course under Trump we have literal Nazis in the street marching and pointing at the groups of people they are going to kill, 20 people are facing 50+ years in prison for somebody breaking a window (J20 defendants), BLM is a “black identity movement” that’s under surveilance by the FBI, but yeah, some dickhead in the IRS looking at your books for errors is the real threat to society here. Jesus christ.

]]>By: Rogue4http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379664
Wed, 07 Feb 2018 16:30:28 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379664I’m aware that that breakdown was nowhere near 50/50… or 70/30… or 95/5, Matt. So just reference the above reverse hypothetical and ask yourself if a miniscule number of right- wing groups (within an overwhelming number of left-wing groups) gettin caught in an IRS thug campaign, *perpetrated during the lead up to a Republican incumbent’s re-election bid*, would suffice for a “nuthin to see hear”.
]]>By: Matthew B.http://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379659
Wed, 07 Feb 2018 14:46:50 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379659Rogue4 is unaware that at the same time the IRS was investigating right-wing groups labelled “tea party” or “patriot,” it was also investigating left-wing groups labelled “progressive” or “occupy.”

I might not say Trump has been worse than either Andrew J., but it’s early days yet.

]]>By: Sternsheinhttp://outlawvern.com/2018/02/06/supremacy/#comment-3379657
Wed, 07 Feb 2018 11:50:11 +0000http://outlawvern.com/?p=30745#comment-3379657From an historical perspective it’s impossible to tell what Trump ‘s legacy will actually be. However, he is a dumb piece of garbage that wants to be a dictator so fucking bad. I hate the motherfucker. Enjoy the depression his tax cut generates. This is mostly directed at those who probably never even read Vern’s reviews.
]]>