LIVERPOOL'S status Capital of Culture may bring the implementation of many things by the time it takes up its mantle in 2008.

Some of these new developments may not be as certain as expected, this week's shock collapse of the controversial Fourth Grace plan being a case in point.

Another no less contentious proposal is Liverpool's determination to follow Dublin and New York by introducing a blanket ban on smoking in pubs, restaurants and clubs in time for culture year.

This would be excellent news for health campaigners but not so healthy for business say some of Liverpool's pubs who are already concerned about the effect it will have on trade.

Carol Ross, licensee of the popular Roscoe Head pub in the city centre, says that if smoking was banned in her pub, business would be under severe threat.

She says that a lot of her regulars are smokers and they say if they can't smoke in the Roscoe they will just stay at home and do their smoking - and drinking - there..

As she is in a zone where street drinking is prosecuted, the smokers cannot go outside. There was also no available land to develop a beer garden and air conditioning in such an old pub would be impossible.

"Certain pubs should be allowed to decide whether they remain smoking or non-smoking and then let the customers decide where they take their custom," Carol maintains.

Another licensee at a very popular city centre pub, who asked not to be named, says a smoking ban had already been introduced around the bar to protect staff and there was a 'no smoking' room for drinkers..

She feels that was suitable enough compromise to protect her trade and staff.

"It would be fine as long as we're all on a level playing field but I would hate to see Liverpool shoot itself in the foot," says the licensee, who gave up smoking five years ago.

She says it could have an unfortunate effect too on the tourist trade. A lot of the continental pub traffic, especially the Spanish, are fond of a smoke with their drink and if Liverpool becomes a no-go area they may consider not coming here at all and stick to London and Edinburgh instead, she says.

Recent news from Ireland has helped to confirm some of these fears.

The country's Licensed Vintners Association, which represents publicans, said last week that since the nationwide ban was introduced on March 25 it had led directly to the loss of 2,000 jobs in Dublin alone.

The association said pub sales in the capital were also down 16% and this was before taking into account the loss of lucrative summer trade.

The LVA's chief executive Donall O'Keefe insisted that he did not accept suggestions that other factors such as pricing could have led to the drop in business.

It claimed the situation was even worse in the countryside with a drop of between 15% and 25% in trade in rural pubs since the ban was introduced.

LVA president Seamus O'Donoghue says: "Daytime trade has dropped off considerably and many customers now arrive later and stay for shorter periods. Once the summer season ends and weather becomes more inclement further loss of business is inevitable."

He says that pubs in the border areas have been especially hard hit where customers had defected to "the smoking side of town."

Calling for a compromise in which customers who do smoke were catered for he adds:

"This smoking ban was railroaded through without any consideration or understanding of its impact on society or business. We were told that non-smokers would flock to the pubs. We knew this would not happen and it did not happen. Already jobs have been lost and more will follow.

"The government must act before our businesses are completely devastated."

Liverpool's own declaration of intent came four days before the Irish ban became manifest on March 25 when the campaign for a Smokefree Liverpool was officially launched.

The aim is to make Liverpool a smoke-free city by 2008 and keynote speeches were made to that affect by both city council leader Mike Storey and Cllr Richard Oglethorpe, executive member for the environment.

Cllr Oglethorpe says: "The tide of national opinion is running towards the government making laws to control smoking in public places.

"Here in Liverpool we want to be the first to work with business to make Smokefree Liverpool a reality. Making it so will put to the fore the right of non smokers who deserve to enjoy their work without the threat of dangers of second-hand tobacco smoke."

The campaigners claim that 1,000 people in Liverpool die annually of smoking related diseases, 10%of them people who have never smoked a cigarette in their lives.

Members of the group even visited New York in April where a ban has been in force since March, 2003, to monitor the effects of the ruling on the city's ruling with a special focus on how it affected its so-called hospitality industry.

The results were very encouraging, says Andy Hull, head of the council's Environmental Health and Trading Standards Department, who is also chairman of Smokefree Liverpool.

"The trip to New York was a little evangelical in that everyone who went came back a little changed by the whole experience," he adds..

Subsequently the Radisson Hotel in Old Hall Street has been hired for a Smokefree conference on October 4. Included in the operation will be a live link-up with New York in which members of the Big Apple's bar and restaurant trade associations will be open to questioning about how the ban has affected them.

"Naturally with New York, anything that going smoke-free initially did to trade was tiny compared to what happened after 9/11," he says.

But he emphasises: "What we have to be clear about here is that this is a worker health issue. The tobacco companies go on about personal choice of smokers but the people who work on these premises do not have a choice."

One of the biggest converts on this road to Damascus, as Mr Hull calls it, is Bill Heckle, the boss of Liverpool's Cavern Tours.

He is opening up the Mathew Street club for a smoke-free evening on the night before the conference. He has also agreed to use the premises as a clean air guinea pig environment to compare it with tests carried out on the atmospheres of premises who allow smoking full on.

In terms of implementing a local ban on smoking, Mr Hull readily admits that the law is not on the council's side.

But it is currently exploring avenues with both the Home Office, which deals with by laws, and the House of Lords, which handles local Acts of Parliament, to get a localised ban implemented.

Ideally, however, he would like national legislation to curb smoking in bars and pubs in the interest of fairness to the level playing field that was referred to earlier.

"Personally, I think the national legislation will be introduced in five years' time although I'd like to see it happen within the year. At the council we've got our foot hard on the accelerator - we're trying to work our way through a voluntary process and the capital of culture is a suitable target."

He says that 53% of all the city's business are already voluntarily smoke free and by 2008 cannot see why that won't be up to the max.

He disputes the idea that the smoke ban has badly affected bars and pubs in either New York or Dublin, claiming that customers in Northern Ireland are actually travelling over the border the other way for a smoke-free drink.

There is also dispute over the idea of pub segregation of smokers and non-smokers, as a doorway is no barrier to the harmful chemical contained in cigarettes, he claims.

The answer lies in the outdoors.

He believes that Liverpool drinkers like those in the smoke free cities - especially New York where it is illegal to consume alcohol on the street - will not be averse to leaving their drinks while they go outside for a smoke.

"I'm not as naive to think that anyone would be happy about leaving their pint and expecting it be there when they come back. But most people drink with friends and I can't see why their companions can't mind their drink while they go for a ciggie."

Most of all he is emphatic that the Smokefree Liverpool campaign is not a witch-hunt against smokers.

"This is not about stopping people from smoking - we would have lost the plot altogether if we made this an attack on smokers. If it helps people to give up smoking - in New York about 100,000 are estimated to have given up since the ban started - then that would be a wonderful by-product. But that's not what we're shooting at. This is about protecting people from the dangers of second-hand smoke.

"And that's that."

Comedy club takes a serious approach to a burning issue >>>

Comedy club takes a serious approach to a burning issue>

>

THE Rawhide Comedy Club has pre-empted any restrictions by introducing no smoking nights of its own.

Since moving to its new venue at Central Hall in Renshaw Street in May, every second Saturday has been designated as smoke free.

As comedy clubs in general are particularly notorious as smoke holes, the decision was considered to be something of a brave one in terms of custom.

Fears, however, have been unfounded says Rawhide spokesman Iain Christie.

"The no smoking nights have been going very well and it's not massively changed the audience. Any smokers have been quite happy to go outside and have a fag during the interval."

Iain says that it is too early to extend the restrictions across the board at the club.

"We would be very wary about taking the lead on a total ban on smoking. As a comedy club it wouldn't seem right to be telling people what to to do and we don't want to alienate them. We've got the option of smoking and non smoking nights and for the time being that appears to be working."

Liverpool's Comedian of the Year Chris Cairns is a regular Rawhide performer and is vehemently anti-smoking.

He is convinced of the dangers posed by passive smoking - the Roy Castle example is cited - and says that the majority of fellow stand-up comedians find that it is a major cross to bear while performing.

On the introduction of no smoking nights at Rawhide he says: "It's so nice to come home and not stink of ciggies which is what happens in 99.9% of the clubs I play in. You don't hang around in them afterwards because it just does you in."

He also believes that a total ban on smoking in the city's pubs and clubs would be feasible.

"If it can work in Dublin and New York it can work here, it just takes a bit of bravery to do it."

He says that it would help people in giving up the habit on the premise that if they were not allowed to smoke in pubs they may learn not to do it at all.

Liverpool, however, may still be a perverse nut to crack.

He's even included an ironic joke about it in his act which has its basis in truth.

It's about smokers in the city being overjoyed at the initial announcement that Liverpool had won the Capital of Culture bid - until discovering it might lead to a smoking ban.

Then they wanted to hand the title over to the bookies' favourites,, the Geordies.

He's happy though that Rawhide is setting an example while readily admitting that in the interval smokers in the audience rush outside "like crackheads" to light up.

Which is fine by him. "If you want to do it then that's your bag - just don't make it my bag too."