If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Congratulations are in order to Vargas Turbo Tech as well as Cobb tuning and ProTuning Freaks for raising the bar as to what the BMW N54 inline-6 twin turbo motor is capable of. There are two platform records here the first of which it is important to note was achieved without methanol injection. There are certain tuners on the N54 platform that mask their ability to upgrade and control the stock fueling system and any fueling issues are "solved" by dumping in a ton of methanol.

Well, with no meth and the cars own fuel system (with High Pressure Fuel Pump tweaks courtesy of Vargas Turbo Tech) responsible for all the fueling 673 wheel horsepower was achieved in STD correction on a Dynojet. That is a record for horsepower on the platform without methanol injection and was done with a blend of MS109 fuel and 93 octane.

Meth injection was then added and the figures rose to 693 wheel horsepower. If more time was available for the parties involved including Josh at Cobb as well as Jake and Dzeeno at ProTuning Freaks the 700 wheel barrier likely would have been crossed. This will happen sooner rather than later now but this is still a major milestone and a new era the N54 is entering. The motor is finally starting to mature and although it is not on a comparable power level yet with the top BMW aftermarket options this is a huge step step forward for a platform that spent considerable time in limbo due to fueling and tuning issues.

It must be satisfying for all involved especially Vargas Turbo who was doubted by many early on due to being a fresh entrant on the N54 tuning scene with many fanboys blindly following another tuner providing a turbo upgrade. Vargas Turbo Tech, Cobb, and PTF have surprisingly quickly surpassed the results from a competing turbo kit that uses a single turbo setup and have done so without relying on meth injection band-aids. A true fueling upgrade is here as well as a turbo upgrade making some serious power and setting the standard.

Congratulations and much respect to all the parties involved, dyno graphs and videos are below.

Reliability and racing lol. Tony can comment whatever he wants at this point, his judgements have been pretty solid thus far and he is just commenting what he honestly sees and feels, albeit hopefully, which is understandable.

I love how all his posts are like gasoline. You must be doing something right Vargas. The fact he keeps posting just shows his dedication, nothing else. Props to the results and the chaos it inevitably brings.

Reliability and racing lol. Tony can comment whatever he wants at this point, his judgements have been pretty solid thus far and he is just commenting what he honestly sees and feels, albeit hopefully, which is understandable.

I love how all his posts are like gasoline. You must be doing something right Vargas. The fact he keeps posting just shows his dedication, nothing else. Props to the results and the chaos it inevitably brings.

You need to feature the car in a magazine!

merely pointing out the fact that he is the wrong person to ask about it, as he doesnt tune it, and better directed to the people actually doing so.

By 'engine' define that. If bmw made an amazing engine, and it was in a lawn mower with amazing volumetric efficiency, and you could spend 30k boosting it to the sky, I wouldn't call that a better 'engine' than an n54 making the same power.

My personal, PERSONAL definition of better engine would be the all round package they provide. If the question were, is the S65 or 2jz better? Even if the VE of the s65 was astronomically higher, given the current power outputs currently, the 2jz would still be king. Being forced induction already IS an advantage, even if you can FI the S65. The 2jz doesn't require an internal rebuild like the S65 does to put out power of 700-800 like the S65 does. The ease of getting to those power levels are significantly easier on the 2jz as well. Pretty soon, regardless of the VE of the N54, we will see that making power on this platform will be easier than its non FI counterparts, regardless of the block structure or VE. The N54 is going to be a superior platform for <1000 power levels than the S65 dollar for dollar. Does the S65 have more potential top end growth? Naturally as the displacement is higher, does have higher VE when that ultimately matters and other benefits. However for the average Joe making 700-800whp, the N54 is a better package than the S65 at the moment, IMHO.

Sticky just doesn't want his M3 to be mentioned in the same sentence as a N54. By the time his car is running correct I'm sure you will see a fully built N54 with close to 1000 RWHP running the same times if not faster than any fully built E9X M3 out there. Stop being a snob about the M3 being in another category. It's built off the same car. Take it easy.

In less than a year no one will even care about 'stock internals' anymore. It will be really cool to find the general/repeatable limit of the stock stuff, but no one likes to blow up engines. Its a terrible waste of a block, crank etc.

Why risk it when forged engine internals are generally inexpensive? Sure, an engine build is not cheap, but it's worth every penny.

In less than a year no one will even care about 'stock internals' anymore. It will be really cool to find the general/repeatable limit of the stock stuff, but no one likes to blow up engines. Its a terrible waste of a block, crank etc.

Why risk it when forged engine internals are generally inexpensive? Sure, an engine build is not cheap, but it's worth every penny.

I think as with any motor, there will be a reliable and safe limit to how much we can push these engines on 'stock internals'. 700 may be that limit as far as reliable, consistent power is concerned, even though we may see 800 or even possibly 900 from the stock block on glory runs, or motors that last a month or five. So I agree, yet disagree with your statement, as I think a lot of people will be happy with the power capability of a stock block and because of the good results we can see here, a stage 3 + hpfp + lpfp+ e85 tune+lsd+axles+fmic and suspension may be as far as people take it these days. I mean heck, thats gotta be good for well into 700whp, even if you stuck the smaller VTT turbo on there that should blanket most of the modders out there. For those shooting for 800-900+, the bottom end would definitely be necessary in my opinion and as you mentioned, 'stock internals' would be out the window. But up to about 700, I'd say stock remains quite relevant. Again, I'm only basing this off what I've seen the motor do and my limited knowledge of what the average consumer wants... Then again, I'm certainly not the average consumer

First off congrats to VTT and PTF on a sick car. To those comparing PSI to the VTT car I have one question, how long has PSI been turboing e46 m's? From what I recall Tony had no experience with the N54 or BMW's at all and just decided to fab a turbo kit for it in what I feel is a short period of time. Props to him and PTF for basically pulling this one out their a$$ and breaking records. I'm sure this is only the beginning for the N54 and will see 1000+hp N54's in the near future.

Sticky just doesn't want his M3 to be mentioned in the same sentence as a N54. By the time his car is running correct I'm sure you will see a fully built N54 with close to 1000 RWHP running the same times if not faster than any fully built E9X M3 out there. Stop being a snob about the M3 being in another category. It's built off the same car. Take it easy.

Or more accurately maybe people should stop making comparisons and pay more attention to their own platform? This has nothing to do with the Audi S3, BMW M3, 2JZ, or anything else. It's an N54 topic but whatever makes you feel better.

Maybe they'll be at 2000 rwhp by the time my car is running? But um, I'm making more power than this and I can't even crank the f'ing boost up yet.

This is awesome. I posted that I think the Vishnu guys had a HPFP on the bench before trying to figure it out and Shiv posted this. So I responded. Thanks buddy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnuhuh...Link please?

shiv

Could have sworn they posted they were looking at one. But hey! This is even better. The guys who sold you your $10,000 kits and know you do not have enough fuel to feed it, did not even bother to put the problem on a bench and try to figure out how to fix it. Instead they told you to install 4 meth nozzles and not ask questions, then they gave you a $600 dollar LPFP upgrade using a $100 pump. My bad, thanks for pointing that out Shiv...

The MkIV Supra came out in 1993 with 320hp stock (twin turbo). It wasn't till 1998-1999 till things started getting serious with laggy upgraded twins and single turbos. Many had nitrous too to help with the spool. ~675whp was the big power number at that time - I remember it well.

Looks like we are on a similar path right now with the N54. Of course, its much harder with the N54 - the DME and fuel system make it much harder. Hell, the 2JZ was OBD1 for the first few years!!!