As for Ichigo's Shinigami powers being Quincy related.... Once you get past the whole 'lolno don't be stupid' thing... It DOES actually make a little sense. It would explain why he sucks balls at Kido, why he only has the one ability from his Zanpaktou (Getsuga.....TTEENNSSHHHOOOOOOOOO) and why that one ability works in a fairly similar way to the quincy Spirit Arrows....

Ichigo's lack of ability with Kido could be expained that what we've seen his full education in it amounts to one day. Aside from that we've not gotten any information about him having training in it.
Same as for the abilities from his Zanpaktou. You get those from meditating and conversing with your sword. Something he only does after getting his ass handed to him and need to do a DBZ esque power-up.

As for Byakuya survivng. I'll put that up to Kubo being weakspined little weakling, would didn't want to deal with butthurt fanboys sending hatemail. Man needs to grow a pair.

Hehe I agree with your second point Muz , no so much the first one though.

I think Ichigo has had MORE than enough time to converse with his Zanpaktou, if he was going to get any extra abilities he'd have learned them by now. I think the reason he hasn't learned anything is because there's nothing there to learn. Really, even if there WERE any other abilites, it still doesn't change the fact that his MAIN ability is very similar to the Quincy Spirit Arrow technique.

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It also doesn't remove the fact that most Shingami spend DECADES developing their abilities, and then decades/centuries their Bankai. Is it really surprising that a little kid who's had it what, a year? Doesn't know more of what his sword can do.
Also, as I said. We've never seen him really meditate with his sword unless "crap crap crap need power!" He's like a mini Kenpachi with a bankai. Extreme power, little true skill.

It also doesn't remove the fact that most Shingami spend DECADES developing their abilities, and then decades/centuries their Bankai. Is it really surprising that a little kid who's had it what, a year? Doesn't know more of what his sword can do.
Also, as I said. We've never seen him really meditate with his sword unless "crap crap crap need power!" He's like a mini Kenpachi with a bankai. Extreme power, little true skill.

Not true.

Kisuke learned his bankai in 3 days, like Ichigo did. Both are very capable of using bankai, both to the fullest, atleast Ichigo can, Kisuke we don't know since he didn't showed it, but it's stupid to think he hasn't mastered it after all these years.

As for meditating, Ichigo did plenty. Sorry if the anime/manga weren't clear on that, but he had a lot of meditating, especially when he was in the Precipice World, to be honest, every time he entered his spirit world he was meditating.

Ichigo just managed to do better than any other Shinigami because he is a human, with special properties(Quincy), he had Hollow powers, that helped him a lot to increase his power and skill, then he got Fullbringer, which made him even better.

I think we've seen Ichigo meditate four or five times. That's not "plenty".
As for Kisuke learning his bankai in 3 days, doesn't mean he mastered it during that time. He most likely spent years honing it. Look at when Renji challanges Byakuya. The difference between freshly learnt bankai and one with decades/centuries of polish.
That's what I mean. Hitsugaya is by all acounts the freshest Captain at the start of SS arch. He's been one for longer than Ichigo and his bankai is far more evolved. Yet it's not done. He can't fully control it yet.
So I seriously don't buy the shit of "Ichigo is fully developed".

The only meditation that we're shown Ichigo to do is at the times when he's forced to by circumstance. Yes, at times those have been lenghty (Before the last battle with Aizen). But most times highly directed to gaining one single thing. Never just a getting to know basis, always a panic one. And it's easy to miss shit when one's looking for something specific.

The only thing Ichigo's training's really given him is "more Power", never really "Higher amount of skill". I can't even remember if he can use Shunpo outside of his Bankai. Where it's just the speed he get's from his sword.

This s what I mean with "Ichigo's Shingami powers shouldn't be 'done'". Not as evolved as they can be. In Shingami years he's an abstract. Extremely powerful yet in "age" far younger than Hitsugaya in time to develop his powers. Also one of the things I'm disapointed with in the manga. It's almost only "More power/New power" for Ichigo. Never really a "Development of skill".

I think we've seen Ichigo meditate four or five times. That's not "plenty".

So, you're going to say that all this time, Ichigo is shit because he only meditated 4 or 5 times? The fights he had, they don't count? The training he had, that doesn't count too?

Originally Posted by Muzjhath

As for Kisuke learning his bankai in 3 days, doesn't mean he mastered it during that time. He most likely spent years honing it. Look at when Renji challanges Byakuya. The difference between freshly learnt bankai and one with decades/centuries of polish.

You do know that Kisuke is over 300 years old, maybe even more, right? It'd be very stupid and weird of him not know how to use his bankai to the fullest.

As for Renji, he learned bankai in a different way than Kisuke did, so, normally, it's harder to master it. If you achieve bankai with the same method as Kisuke did, it's easier to learn and master your bankai.

Originally Posted by Muzjhath

That's what I mean. Hitsugaya is by all acounts the freshest Captain at the start of SS arch. He's been one for longer than Ichigo and his bankai is far more evolved. Yet it's not done. He can't fully control it yet.
So I seriously don't buy the shit of "Ichigo is fully developed".
So I seriously don't buy the shit of "Ichigo is fully developed".

Huh? Toushiro's bankai isn't fully developed like Ichigo's. Where did you get that?

Toushiro can't even use the full power of his bankai because it's too young to achieve or wield his zanpakutou's full and true power. If you have seen that Zanpakutou Arc, you'll see why, the spirit of the sword itself says that to Ichigo when they are speaking.

And Ichig's bankai is fully developed, there's nothing more for him to learn from his bankai, well not now atleast, with his new Quincy powers I'm sure he will have a different bankai, but prior to this arc, his bankai was fully developed.

Originally Posted by Muzjhath

The only meditation that we're shown Ichigo to do is at the times when he's forced to by circumstance. Yes, at times those have been lenghty (Before the last battle with Aizen). But most times highly directed to gaining one single thing. Never just a getting to know basis, always a panic one. And it's easy to miss shit when one's looking for something specific.

Not really. Just because you saw Ichigo meditate 4 or 5 times doesn't mean he didn't do it more times. According to that, since we haven't seen Ichigo go to the toilet, is it safe to assume that he doesn't piss or just solid stuff in the bathroom? I think not.

Originally Posted by Muzjhath

The only thing Ichigo's training's really given him is "more Power", never really "Higher amount of skill". I can't even remember if he can use Shunpo outside of his Bankai. Where it's just the speed he get's from his sword.

Then again, Ichigo trained with Kisuke, his fights with Zaraki, and his other fights improved his skills and abilities, Kisuke among other captains already said that Ichigo got super wtf strong because of the experience he got from his fights, to the death, that he has had.

And yes, Ichigo can use Shunpo to it's fullest, he hasn't mastered it as much as Yuruichi has, but if you remember seeing several Arcs, Ichigo can surprass Byakuya's Shunpo and speed with ease, if you can't remember that, go watch the third Arc again, when he fights with Byakuya.

Originally Posted by Muzjhath

This s what I mean with "Ichigo's Shingami powers shouldn't be 'done'". Not as evolved as they can be. In Shingami years he's an abstract. Extremely powerful yet in "age" far younger than Hitsugaya in time to develop his powers. Also one of the things I'm disapointed with in the manga. It's almost only "More power/New power" for Ichigo. Never really a "Development of skill".

Ichigo isn't a Shinigami, he has Shinigami powers, there's a difference between him and the Shinigami, he's a special human, he even gave Orihime and Chad powers, I mean, what kind of human with a fullbringer/Shinigami could do that? Not even Ginjo did that with the people he was around.

As for him getting new powers. Like I said in this wall of text before, Ichigo develops his skills too, because of the fights he has. If you remember, almost every time Ichigo meets with Zangetsu, they fight each other or Ichigo fights Zangetsu's Hollow power or wtv it's called.

Last edited by Majad; 2012-11-11 at 04:28 PM.
Reason: Grammar... So fail xd

I've not watched any of the Anime. Nor do I consider any filler arcs as canon. They are filler. So I don't know what that Zanpakutou Arc is.

And while he isn't Shingami. I find it stupid that his powers would be fully developed just for that reason.

And the Hitsugaya thing is just what I mean. Just because Ichigo has learned to use Bankai shouldn't mean he's mastered it. If he has I think that's extremly boring.

Edit:
I guess what I'm asking for I'd think it would be more intresting if Ichigo stayed only Shingami powers, and developed the fundamentals of those to grow stronger/more versatile. Than just become a hybrid Gary Sue.

I've not watched any of the Anime. Nor do I consider any filler arcs as canon. They are filler. So I don't know what that Zanpakutou Arc is.

You should watch it... Whether you like it or not, it's just as important to other Arcs, even for a filler, it's just interesting it always gives more information on what we know.

Originally Posted by Muzjhath

And while he isn't Shingami. I find it stupid that his powers would be fully developed just for that reason.

And the Hitsugaya thing is just what I mean. Just because Ichigo has learned to use Bankai shouldn't mean he's mastered it. If he has I think that's extremly boring.

His powers are more developed now than Toushiro's, I think, to be honest, before he lost his powers, it's safe to say that he was stronger than almost every captain, not Sunshuin or Ukitakite though and Yama ji obviously.

And yes, for the 999x times, Ichigo has mastered his bankai, yes, there might be more powers in it now since he has gained Quincy powers, but at his current state, he has mastered his Bankai.

You should watch it... Whether you like it or not, it's just as important to other Arcs, even for a filler, it's just interesting it always gives more information on what we know.

His powers are more developed now than Toushiro's, I think, to be honest, before he lost his powers, it's safe to say that he was stronger than almost every captain, not Sunshuin or Ukitakite though and Yama ji obviously.

And yes, for the 999x times, Ichigo has mastered his bankai, yes, there might be more powers in it now since he has gained Quincy powers, but at his current state, he has mastered his Bankai.

No.

Kubo stated in an interview Hitsugaya's Bankai is now complete.

Honestly, Hitsugaya's apparently gotten extremely powerful.

The only issue is, obviously, his Bankai was stolen, so he couldn't fully show its new abilities.

The only issue is, obviously, his Bankai was stolen, so he couldn't fully show its new abilities.

Ichigo's Bankai, I'm 100%, is not complete.

Prior to this arc, it wasn't complete, and prio to this arc, Ichigo's was complete? The idea that I got from it is that Ichigo before this arc, had his bankai fully developed or atleast, he could use it to the fullest, as for Toushiro, he just couldn't use it to the fullest, all prior to the Arc.

I don't read Kubo's stuff, so some of my texts of walls might be wrong.

Prior to this arc, it wasn't complete, and prio to this arc, Ichigo's was complete? The idea that I got from it is that Ichigo before this arc, had his bankai fully developed or atleast, he could use it to the fullest, as for Toushiro, he just couldn't use it to the fullest, all prior to the Arc.

I don't read Kubo's stuff, so some of my texts of walls might be wrong.

No no no.

The thing is..Ichigo's Bankai has never been complete.

Ichigo unlocked the ability to use his Bankai, yes, but he's had no ACTUAL training, which was one of the comments Byakuya made towards him when they originally fought.

His Bankai was basically complete when he fought Aizen. It was also at a level above a normal Bankai.

Regardless, Hitsugaya's Bankai has been honed to a Masterful Level for this Arc.

If you noticed, for example, during the Fullbringer Arc, Hitsugaya didn't even release his Shikai and he was able to control Ice. That's just an idea of how much he's honed his abilities in the last 18 months.

Hitsugaya never had full control over Hyorimaru, he simply had a handle around it and was progressively getting stronger and better. He even stated during his battle with Harribel that, for that specific ability, the one where a single snowflake fell from the sky and bloomed into flowers, he didn't have full control over.

Ichigo unlocked the ability to use his Bankai, yes, but he's had no ACTUAL training, which was one of the comments Byakuya made towards him when they originally fought.

His Bankai was basically complete when he fought Aizen. It was also at a level above a normal Bankai.

So, Ichigo's bankai is only complete when he is able to use the Final Getsuga Form transformation?

So, by that, does it mean that Ichigo's father's bankai isn't complete too? It's just that I don't get it and I can't take this one thing off of my head now.

Zangetsu told Ichigo, and so did his father, that if you learn Final Getsuga Tenshou, you'll lose all of your powers but if Ichigo's bankai is only complete when he can use Final Getsuga Tenshou freely and when he uses it, will that mean that he will lose his powers again or will he be able to control it? That's what I don't get if what you say is true.

Unless that's a weird and "incomplete" complete version of his bankai, you know?

Originally Posted by Destil

Regardless, Hitsugaya's Bankai has been honed to a Masterful Level for this Arc.

If you noticed, for example, during the Fullbringer Arc, Hitsugaya didn't even release his Shikai and he was able to control Ice. That's just an idea of how much he's honed his abilities in the last 18 months.

Hitsugaya never had full control over Hyorimaru, he simply had a handle around it and was progressively getting stronger and better. He even stated during his battle with Harribel that, for that specific ability, the one where a single snowflake fell from the sky and bloomed into flowers, he didn't have full control over.

I never pay much attention to small details so I didn't notice that Toushiro was using ice/water without his shikai, that's amazing indeed!

So, Ichigo's bankai is only complete when he is able to use the Final Getsuga Form transformation?

So, by that, does it mean that Ichigo's father's bankai isn't complete too? It's just that I don't get it and I can't take this one thing off of my head now.

Zangetsu told Ichigo, and so did his father, that if you learn Final Getsuga Tenshou, you'll lose all of your powers but if Ichigo's bankai is only complete when he can use Final Getsuga Tenshou freely and when he uses it, will that mean that he will lose his powers again or will he be able to control it? That's what I don't get if what you say is true.

Unless that's a weird and "incomplete" complete version of his bankai, you know?

I never pay much attention to small details so I didn't notice that Toushiro was using ice/water without his shikai, that's amazing indeed!

Can't wait to see how he fights and how is power is now!

Your comments on Ichigo's Bankai have confused me now @_@

Basically, yes, at that point is was complete and honed to a level above Shinigami or a Shinigami with Hollow Powers.

His Bankai is different now because he regained his Shinigami powers through not just the Reiatsu of Rukia, but also every Captain and LT in Soul Society, PLUS it's now fused with his Fullbringer abilities.

One thing i've never understood is why people want stuff to end. For me personally i would like to keep watching stuff, even if for example the Aizen arc was best, i would keep watching if it went downhill from there because i like the show. I've never got why people say it should end, just don't watch it anymore instead?

For example on a complete random note, people say Fringe was great for first two seasons then it should of ended, but regardless of story good or bad i enjoy watching it each week, therefore it should continue!

But in this case i understand how the guy just wants the story to end. Wish it didn't though QQ

Some shows can end on a highlight and be considered good. Here's a few examples:
Yuyu hakusho's first season ended with Yusei getting his soul back and all was well. It could have ended there without the entire detective trail and turning it into a DBZ knock off.
Simpsons could have ended after 12 seasons. It's beating a dead horse for a new episode each season after 24 running.

Sometimes it is best to end something and start with a new idea. We all know that Naruto will end with him becoming the 5-6-7----9th Hokage, because that is where the story aimed at over 8 years ago. We know where the stories will end but they want to get as much money for an idea as they can.

There is no news about the anime coming back for the final arc. The reason the anime ended in the first place was because it became incredibly unpopular and had very poor viewership. Unless there's a huge demand from the fandom, don't count on it. But then again, Studio Pierrot screwed the anime over with terrible fillers and poor animation quality that never evolved outside a few, select episodes. Don't count on a new movie either, Hell Chapter did very poorly as well, worse than Diamond Dust Rebellion and Fade to Black.

Your comments on Ichigo's Bankai have confused me now @_@

Basically, yes, at that point is was complete and honed to a level above Shinigami or a Shinigami with Hollow Powers.

His Bankai is different now because he regained his Shinigami powers through not just the Reiatsu of Rukia, but also every Captain and LT in Soul Society, PLUS it's now fused with his Fullbringer abilities.

Juhabach JUST said that Ichigo's bankai has not finished maturing. Its evolving, continuing to evolve, and thats part of the reason they couldn't capture it. Im pretty sure that Engetsu's bankai is matured, though.

And the power that the other shinigami contributed to the sword that restored his powers were actually modified to copy Rukia's unique reiatsu signature. In The Death Saves the Strawberry, its explained that her reiatsu was the most important for forming the sword because hers is the most compatible with Ichigo's. Urahara theorizes thats because when she gave him her powers at the start of the series, his own powers that were still inert and unformed used hers as a template to copy so it could rapidly mature. But yes, what was left of his Fullbring fused with his shinigami powers. However, that still doesn't explain where his hollow powers went - he can still use the black Getsuga Tensho, which is explicitly from his hollow.

It's been going for way too long personally, The day it ended was with Aizen being imprisoned. That's when it should of just be done; Not a randomly new bad guy that comes into play =/

While i agree, there's ALOT of unknown in the story at that point.
Things such as the history with Isshin, the "Zero-Squad" and the Spirit King. Alot of these things, we still don't know the details about.

The whole "Full-bring" arc was a bit Meeeh, imo but it served the purpose of getting the story back on "track" and setting the stage for the final arc, which should - at least according to Kubo - enlighten us about all the things we've been wondering about for years.

Anyways. As i said. Although it would have been a good place to stop the story, what with Ichigo being for all purposes a normal human being, there was still way too much story we were still left in the dark about. Too many unanswered questions.