Planned Parenthood and Republican Propaganda
(locked)

Abortion and Planned Parenthood seems to be a hot issue right now but the problem with it is how much propaganda republicans spout about it.

Planned Parenthood has not once received federal money to perform abortions. Any federal funding they have received went towards the other services they provided. Instead you have many people believing the Republican propaganda about Planned Parenthood who in turn spread it even further. Not only is it a flat out lie it would also be completely illegal if Planned Parenthood did use federal money for abortion. Why do so many people believe the propaganda? Is it because Planned Parenthood provides abortion services so they want to believe the slander?

Well technically, it is not allowed to give any organization federal money to perform abortions. However, PP pays for its own abortion services and, recently, has received a large amount of federal grant money (Ol’ Barry).
Soooo technically, no.
But logically, yes.

Well technically, it is not allowed to give any organization federal money to perform abortions. However, PP pays for its own abortion services and, recently, has received a large amount of federal grant money (Ol’ Barry).
Soooo technically, no.
But logically, yes.

This is the kind of bullshit I am talking about. There is absolutely no “logic” to what you just said. Just because they received money does not mean they are using that money for abortions. They use that money for the other services they provide. Planned Parenthood’s abortion services are entirely privately funded. Your kind of “logic” is entirely asinine. A person who steals a loaf of bread is obviously a murderer since thieves and murderers are criminals.
That is the exact kind of “logic” you just used.

I have a hypothetical question for anyone here who does not understand conservative’s opposition to federal funding for planned parenthood:

Imagine that there were a neo nazi group in your local area that went around murdering Jews. Let’s say that a court ruled that it was legal, and that a Jew wasn’t technically a human being. Now, a ballot measure comes up, that wants to initiate a levy on all income in the area. The levy will cost each citizen approximately 3 dollars a year, and will give about 100,000 dollars to the neo nazi group. The neo nazi group will ONLY use the funds to pay doctors to screen women for breast cancer. Would you vote “Yes” on the bond? Why or why not?

Nice hypothetical. However, there is no need to even think about the hypothetical when it is postulated that Planned Parenthood has no federal funding going into abortions, as seen in the references above.

He’s saying that the point is not whether Federal money is going to support abortions or not, the point is that Federal money is going to support an institution that performs abortions.

It’s a horribly flawed analogy.
A Neo Nazi group would have the aim to eradicate Jews and push its view of superiority of its members and inferiority of everyone else at its centre. Breast cancer screening is totally unrelated to the groups motivation.
If Planned Parenthood had the killing of children at its centre it would be accurate.
The thing is, Planned Parenthood provides many different services aimed at people who want information on how to prepare for and deal with issues related to having a family and abortion is only one of them. In fact, abortion is kind of the last option. Most services they offer actually have the goal to prevent that last option from being taken.

That analogy is just the usual: trying to make appeals to emotion because he can’t form a valid argument, as JaumeBG pointed out.

I have a hypothetical question for anyone here who does not understand conservative’s opposition to federal funding for planned parenthood:

Imagine that there were a neo nazi group in your local area that went around murdering Jews. Let’s say that a court ruled that it was legal, and that a Jew wasn’t technically a human being. Now, a ballot measure comes up, that wants to initiate a levy on all income in the area. The levy will cost each citizen approximately 3 dollars a year, and will give about 100,000 dollars to the neo nazi group. The neo nazi group will ONLY use the funds to pay doctors to screen women for breast cancer. Would you vote “Yes” on the bond? Why or why not?

Let me correct this. Imagine:

A. Its legal to kill jews (not just because a court says so, but the laws).
There is this group Neo Nazi that helps people to kill jews.

B. There is a levy that pays groups(not just Neo Nazi) for preforming/promoting specific acts like screening women for breast cancer. Such groups can only use money gained by the levy for preforming/promoting the acts for which they gain the money.

C. The Neo Nazi group preforms such acts and uses money gained federally only for such acts.

Exactly what do you want to Vote against without violating the constitution?

Your argument so far and that of many conservatives goes towards voting against C. Do you need an explanation why C is wrong?
Why a group that has preformed no illegal actions can not be banned from gaining such Money while other groups do get the money?

MyTie is using his (typically hypocritical?) logic to put forth a very lame “PURIST” arguement.

If he would patronize ONLY the restaurants that served the foods HE likes….
he probably would have to eat at home.

Life in huge generalities just isn’t all that easily managed….
unless ya do an awful lot of lying (even to yerself).
I doubt the PP would still recieve Fed-funding were it to be in violation of the rules.

Originally posted by JaumeBG:Prove Planned Parenthood uses federal funding for abortions. You cannot.

I can’t, you’re right. That’s why I never asserted that they did.

Originally posted by FlabbyWoofWoof:I understand My Tie’s analogy, if crude.

At least someone gets it.

Originally posted by EPR89:That analogy is just the usual: trying to make appeals to emotion because he can’t form a valid argument, as JaumeBG pointed out.

It is an emotional argument, for an emotional topic. This thread was made because you libs CAN’T understand why Republicans oppose the funding of Planned Parenthood. It’s because Planned Parenthood kills babies. It doesn’t matter what they do with the funding itself, the baby killing is heinous.

Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Why a group that has preformed no illegal actions can not be banned from gaining such Money while other groups do get the money?

Just because someone doesn’t break a law doesn’t mean they deserve federal funding. If the taxpayers don’t want a person or organization to get money, then their elected representatives have the power to block funding.

I have absolutely no problem with giving any group money to fund smear testing, MyTie. I don’t care what their ideology is, so long as they’re improving public health.

Well, you’d be an exception to the rule. Most people wouldn’t want to fund a murdering neo nazi group. It’s funny that you answered this way. Anything to not admit you can at least understand the other side’s view.

MyTie is using his (typically hypocritical?) logic to put forth a very lame “PURIST” arguement.

If he would patronize ONLY the restaurants that served the foods HE likes….
he probably would have to eat at home.

Life in huge generalities just isn’t all that easily managed….
unless ya do an awful lot of lying (even to yerself).
I doubt the PP would still recieve Fed-funding were it to be in violation of the rules.

I have absolutely no problem with giving any group money to fund smear testing, MyTie. I don’t care what their ideology is, so long as they’re improving public health.

Well, you’d be an exception to the rule. Most people wouldn’t want to fund a murdering neo nazi group. It’s funny that you answered this way. Anything to not admit you can at least understand the other side’s view.

No, its just an honest answer. I truly don’t care what ideology a person or group follows, if they’re providing a sorely-needed public health service. If they’re using federal money to monitor the health of women, then I really don’t see the problem you have with this.

Originally posted by EPR89:That analogy is just the usual: trying to make appeals to emotion because he can’t form a valid argument, as JaumeBG pointed out.

It is an emotional argument, for an emotional topic. This thread was made because you libs CAN’T understand why Republicans oppose the funding of Planned Parenthood. It’s because Planned Parenthood kills babies. It doesn’t matter what they do with the funding itself, the baby killing is heinous.

First of all, there’s a difference between a baby and a fetus. You are probably so deep into that emotional thinking that you don’t recognise it, despite many people telling you that this difference is actually important.
Secondly, they do not use the money for those abortions. They must not and they are not. There is no valid argument to justify not funding them for the other services they are providing.

You Reps just want that your emotions are respected.
By everyone.
No matter whether this means making services unavailable to people who have nothing to do with the stuff that hurts your dear emotions. You are heinous, you family and reproductive health hater.

As soon as it’s about topics like federal funding emotions have no say anymore. It’s all about being able to justify your decisions using valid arguments.

EPR, don’t you see that it doesn’t matter to my argument if a baby is a baby after birth, or before birth, or whether it is a fetus or not or anything like that. My point is merely to argue against the people who don’t understand the opposition Planned Parenthood gets from the pro life crowd. I mean, you guys really don’t understand it? Can you not see the argument from the point of view of the pro lifers? I can see the argument from your side. I don’t agree with it, and I think it is horrible, but I UNDERSTAND it. I understand that PP provides good services, and that many people feel that a fetus is not a human being, and that it has a lot of differences from a baby after birth. I understand that those federal funds are going to something good. I don’t AGREE with your position, but I UNDERSTAND it. All this pretending not to understand it is irrational. When it is explained why a pro-life person feels the way they do, instead of saying “oh, well, yeah they feel that way and so their opposition makes sense”, you all just argue against their position.

My point isn’t to argue whether or not abortion is right or wrong. I’ve done that in many other threads. My point here is to demonstrate what the pro life position is, and why they have the arguments that they do, not to actually further those arguments here, or defend them. If you could come off your high horse, stop being defensive, and grow up for just an iota of a second, you’d stop flinging arguments and fighting, and instead just say “of course that is what they believe”.

This feeling that their opposition to PP funding is irrational would be true, if taken from your point of view, but not theirs. That is why there is so much difficulty in this conversation, and so much hateful insulting. It’s because you guys refuse to even consider where other people are coming from.

When it is explained why a pro-life person feels the way they do, instead of saying “oh, well, yeah they feel that way and so their opposition makes sense”, you all just argue against their position.

Well, yeah. I’m sorry if you don’t like it when someone argues against your position, but that is kinda what this forum is here for. If you wish to state an opinion and not have it attacked, maybe start a blog with the comments turned off?

When it is explained why a pro-life person feels the way they do, instead of saying “oh, well, yeah they feel that way and so their opposition makes sense”, you all just argue against their position.

Well, yeah. I’m sorry if you don’t like it when someone argues against your position, but that is kinda what this forum is here for. If you wish to state an opinion and not have it attacked, maybe start a blog with the comments turned off?

no, vika. Notice in my post, that you quoted, the second to last word. It’s “their”, not “my”. I’m not defending my position. I’m explaining a position so it can be understood, not so I can defend it. This isn’t the appropriate thread for me to defend the pro-life position in.

Then “they” can create a blog with the comments closed, if they wish to state an opinion without having it challenged. This is not the place to state opinions that you cannot tolerate a logical challenge being raised against. This entire forum was designed as a discussion forum to discuss differing points of views, and differing stances.

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