Terrorists on Murderous Rampage in Mumbai: As Muslims, We Condemn it

As we have been hearing, terrorists have created havoc in Mumbai, India, killing over 80 160 people and injuring over 250300, according to the latest reports.

Photos of the carnage, of a child, of women and men grieving, paint a gloomy picture of this tragic operation by terrorists, hell-bent upon death and destruction for some vile purpose (see video and photos below).

Fingers are pointing to radical Muslims (not unsurprisingly since that is almost always the first reaction by Indian government officials), but there has been no official confirmation. Regardless of who was involved, the people who carried these attacks out are animals, with little sense of humanity or morality.

As Muslims, we condemn such senseless carnage against innocent civilians, wherever it may occur. This goes against the fundamental spirit of Islam, which promotes a culture of life and humanity, not bloodshed and violence. And another example of why extremist ideology, whatever that ideology may be, needs to be refuted and condemned.

“Whoever kills a person [unjustly]… it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur'an, 5:32)

Today, we join all Indians in expressing our outrage and our condemnation of this senseless spilling of innocent blood.

May Allah grant patience to the victims of terrorism, and may He extract full justice against the perpetrators.

Any eye-witness accounts or updates are welcome. We would like to especially hear from any Indians in Mumbai to share some of the feelings of people on the ground.

Note: Any distasteful comments or comments that try to justify such heinous crimes will be moderated. There is a time to talk about injustice (like government brutality in Kashmir), but never to be conflated with other injustice. Because injustice can never be returned with injustice. Allah is Just, and Muslims are commanded to be just in all our actions and speech.

131 Responses

Gunmen rampaged through a series of targets in the Indian city of Mumbai killing indiscriminately and taking hostages at two luxury hotels.

Mumbai police spokesman Satish Katsa said gunmen have taken over the Taj Mahal Hotel and Hotel Oberoi, and were holding hostages on multiple floors.

Flames and smoke poured from the Taj early Thursday, and several explosions were heard at the building.

This is pure and utter madness and criminality. Those people murder numerous innocent people (including Muslims I suspect) and spread chaos and terror and then have the nerve to call themselves mujahidun?! These are the worst sort of people: those who spread corruption upon the earth. They should be taken and crucified. This sort of thing is not tolerable. Yes, I know that the Muslims (and Christians) suffer greatly at the hands of fanatic Hindus, but that in no way justifies descending to their murderous level. I cannot find the words to express my anger and disgust at these people who transgress all boundaries in violating human life.

Jak Abu Umar, though there is no confirmation yet that these are Muslims, but it will not come as a surprise if they indeed are, because of other precedent attacks.

Such attacks only embolden the Islamophobes and I am sure the hindu fanatics who will see this as proof for the validity of their own extremism. What kind of jihad is it in attacking unarmed civilians? I would also like to point out that some wackos glorified the Bali bombers as shuhadah, which is another grave injustice. Rather, all these people, from the 9/11 attackers to the London terrorists to the Bali bombers to the Mumbai terrorists to the terrorist operating in Pakistan— all of them are COWARDS, and a source of shame and disgrace for all humanity, and esp. for Muslims.

The khawaarij responsible should be brought to justice. (If they were Muslims.)

Do these khawaarij not realize that Hindus may (God forbid) retaliate? I fear another Gujarat riot. I fear for the Muslim women. These khawaarij will be responsible for any harm that comes to Muslim women as a result of this attack.

May Allah [swt] keep our Ummah safe, and keep us from oppressing others.

Uhmmm…yeah, I condemn this attack. But why do I have to degrade myself to such a level that necessitates such an obvious sentiment? Oh wait, CNN may carry this condemnation and then maybe people will *finally* realize (after our countless other condemnations) that Muslims don’t support such acts of violence. Yeah, sure…that’s the way it works…

I think its time we move beyond the ‘knee-jerk’ condemnation stage of our post 9/11 existence and take the high road by instituting the we-are-insulted stage – as in, “We are insulted with having to prove to the world that we do not support acts of violence. I mean, for God’s sake, my kids go to school with your kids, I live next door to you, my wife chats with your wife while the kids play outside, I work with you – and yet, you still require such a ridiculous statement of condemnation from me?!?!?!”

This is just more evidence that violence begets violence. The Muslim community in India has been the subject to violence and terrorism from state-supported Hindu fanatics for quite some time now. This has allowed from more extreme and reactionary elements to find recruits and retaliate. This is turn will be used to fuel Hindu extremism and the deadly cycle continues.

I am sorry Br. Naeem that you feel the way you do. This is not condemnation for the sake of condemnation. Rather, it is joining with others in an act of condolence and our regards and prayers for the families. And we’ll continue to do so inshallah, as the Muslim voice should be the loudest and emanating from numerous sources to show that we stand for justice. Why should we be behind in this?

Let’s say this happened in a Muslim country… I think we would have a similar reaction, and would also appreciate if others raised their violence against it.

Let’s give some benefit of doubt to the intentions of the posters.

And let’s move on. I don’t want the comments to move into another tangent of should we or shouldn’t we. A good opportunity for that discussion would be the Open Threads.

w/s

P.S. Abu Umar: Agree with you 100%. Violence begets violence, and I don’t understand why the extremists don’t learn that they do NOT help their cause with such insensible murderous attacks.

So the terrorists think that they will help their cause by doing cowardly acts like this?

What will happen is that Muslims all over the world will be blamed for this, and be persecuted even more. It will justify the bigoted treatment that Muslims receive from governments all over the world, it will justify invading even more Muslim countries. More innocent Muslims will die do to this, on top of the innocent people they killed today. Muslims in India will further be pushed in economic irrelevance, violent retaliations, racism, etc.

One really doesn’t know what to feel, disgusted at the massacre of people going about their businesses, or despondent that yet again Muslims are evil in the media. Perhaps angry at the media for covering and sensationalizing this event far more than any condemnation of it by Muslims, suspicious of how true the stories really are, annoyed that I am expected to condemn and apologize for this so much so that I myself am tired of my own apologies which have lost value, filled with rage against those morons who do this and destroy any dawah or attempt at integration or improving the image of Islam Muslims do here.

May be I feel angry that the Muslims are so weak and invaded left and right, and at the same time widely hated and vilified, perhaps I am angry at myself for doing nothing and wasting the blessing Allah gave me, while the Umma, and indeed the whole world is in turmoil, while the Umma suffers at the hands of of not only outsiders, but idiots from within. May be ashamed of myself for having this voice inside that tells me ‘try to hide you are a Muslim’, even feeling helpless that all this is far bigger than me, as one who is trying to move a mountain.

I was accustomed to being the one who tells people there is always hope, now I need someone to tell me this. May be I can go to sleep like an ostrich in the sand, living as if it never happened. But as low as I feel, I know that losing Iman amounts to losing everything, ya Allah help us.

“Truly the only ones that despair of Allah’s mercy are the disbelieving people” – Suraf Yusuf

Assalammou’alaikum.. I’m sure the fist thing coming to evryone’s mind is that a muslim terrorist group did this attack.. Its so sad,so many innocents killed. We should ask dua for our brothers and sisters there in mumbai, we dn’t knw their situation. May Allah help the muslims..

why? I just fail to understand the logic behind such moves. Regardless if they were muslims or not… how can they indiscriminately kill random people in the street like this? Fathers and mothers who were expected to go home .. didnt…. sons and daughter who their parents were waiting on them… didnt show up…. this is not just… this is total loss.

So here we go again.
Several hours after the attacks and we have a dozen or so muslims condemning the attacks here. I havent heard any leaders from Muslim countries condemning the attacks, and i dont think i have ever heard a Muslim Sheik condemn any attack in the world.

Instead we hear the usual “retaliation” excuses and blaming the victims.

Lets be honest, We can look anywhere in the world and wherever there are Muslims, there is murder and killing. Its not just where there is a Muslim minority, there are places like Indonesia where Muslims are strong majority and there is still killings of people of other religions.

We can also see within Muslims countries different branches of Islam will slaughter each other like Sunnis and shi ites.

Muslims are killing people in the Sudan to spread the faith but where are the decent Muslims ?

The west is not perfect but at least some of us will stand up against injustice. People will protest on the streets (as they have on the war in Iraq) we will get involved to make a change. The change succeeded with the election of Obama, but if we see something we will protest against what is wrong.

These attacks must take a lot of organization and money. It is too widespread to be a small fringe element. Decent Muslims must know these people and their plans. Sheiks must be aware, the people supplying the money must be aware.

I understand there would be fear in some parts of the world and speaking up would mean death, but there are many places where you can. i think i would rather be dead than live in fear and call myself a beleiver in a religion that is against what i really believe in my heart.

Until normal muslims stand up against these criminals nothing will change and Islam will be reduced to an irrelevent religious sect that no one takes seriously.

I totally agree with Geoff C but you shud knw smethng, most of the shaikhs cant say anythng,its either bkoz they fear being retaliated or they may get other prblms. Nowadays speaking the truth in an islamic way is becoming extinct, islam totally condemns such acts but who will voice it out as it shud be??

Where is this outrage on the continuous slaughtering of INNOCENT Muslims? Where is this outrage when close to 1 million INNOCENT Muslims babies were put to death in Iraq due to an unjust embargo? And what about SISTERS like us who are raped 19 times a day? What about that?

Now the media often doesn’t get the time to give an profile to such condemnations. You may compare it to a lot good people in the West who have not had success in stopping what their governments are doing in Muslim land in the name of Western values (e.g. millions of Muslim dead in Iraq, many thousands in Afghanistan and Pakistan), the only difference being the obvious disparity in dead civilians on the Muslim side and of course that one one side the actions are carried out by democratically elected governments and on other by fringe nutcases.

The guy carrying gun in the picture does not look muslim from appearance wise. The chief counter terrorist guy from Indian police was investigating hindu terrorist organizations, and was threatened few days ago, that he would be killed. And indeed he was killed in these attacks. So it could be hindu extremist group as well.

It’s striking how the Indian Prime Minister has exhibited the typical knee-jerk response and, without even launching an enquiry, pointed a finger of blame towards “neighboring countries” (Pakistan)! On the other hand, I’m seeing reports in Pakistani media that quote the perpetrators of the crime as saying that they were out on a mission because they were being neglected, decieved by the Indian Government. One statement says they want to establish Hyderabad as a separate nation within India. Another statement points towards the “double standards” of the Indian Govt towards its Muslim citizens.

I’m Pakistani but I’ve got roots in India, I’ve been educated in the Indian school system and I’ve visited there as well… I’ve seen first hand how Muslims, no matter what you say, have something to fear within their own land. The incidents in Gujarat in 2002 where the state failed to protect the innocents among the Muslims and then, how after every bomb blast in Bombay the Muslims are “rounded up”, have made their impact upon the people. There are young Muslim men who take what they see as the “last option”, under extreme pressure, and do something which gets condemned as an act of terrorism. Of course, do condemn it but don’t forget to look for the reasons underlying the act. In this case, the prime minister has shown the same response Indian governments have in the past – blame it on Pakistan, put on a nice face on for the world and say there’s nothing we have to feel guilty about at home!

The issue of “condemnation” is another thing entirely. Of course Muslims condemn it worldwide for being a terrible incident – 101 innocent people lost their lives. It’s a terrible tragedy. IF Muslims were involved, even then it’s condemnable (by other Muslims) because there’s a difference between the stance of Islam and the actions of Muslims. However, to ask as to WHY we see Muslims alone committing such acts it unfair and uncalled for. When crimes committed at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo (and who knows how many other such places) came to surface, the Muslims didn’t demand that each and every American or Chrisitian, or likewise amongst the leaders, come forward with a “I don’t stand for it!” placard. People need to get their statistics right – it’s not miscreants amongst the Muslims who have been involved in the most number of terrorist acts. One doesn’t have to go to far back into the past to encounter a “terrorist” in Germany, who tortured and killed Jewish people by the millions.

I am sick and tired of this business. I don’t know what to say!
No matter what you do and say, this kind of business wipes it out.
I am defeated, lost, in dispair. I don’t have the strength left in my to say anything positive. There is no defending the indefensible.

May Allah separate truth from falsehood. May Allah purify Islam in the hearts of all of us, specially those who profess to be Muslims and act like the worst kuffar.

May Allah give us knowledge of true Islam. May he protect our children from the evil of those who know nothing but evil, and do nothing but evil.

Brothers and sisters, talk to your children. Let them know about true Islam, so that they don’t fall prey to outsiders who may use them to do crimes.

May Allah protect the Ummah from the evil of those who know no good. May Allah purge from among us the evil that has crept in. Ameen.

Why are u moderating the comments. Lets see all the comments. I really wanna see what “all” muslims think. Its a shame that you need to moderate comments on a board thats asking for condemnation of terrorist attacks from your fellow muslims.

Asalamualaikum brothers and sisters,
I am truly sadden by the whole attack on Mumbai.
Allah knows better who’s the attackers are and if they are Indeed Muslims as what the media informed us of. We are so far away and we get the informations from the media who knows if whats they are reporting are tottaly true or fabricated. For once,when the news break, the first words was” muslim terrorrist”… ” islamic terrorist”…(wow that was a quick one.) Its not new, terror attack are Mostly being link to either muslims or islam. The whole thing “muslim terrorist”are being repeated despited the “state department said no one claimed responsibility for the attack…they dont know who” Then suddenly, the media said its the “Deccan mujahiden” Going on for a while, leads to L.e.t (another islamist terrorist based in pakistan-their words not mine)supported by al-qedah. Then they received email that the Deccan claimed responsibilty…anyone can write an email and claimed a different name, Why are we not being shown the email? Muslims need to know what?funny is they dont bother to used the word “alleged” islamist terrorist but when they talked about the white supremict, they used “alleged”. No terrorist being labelled to them…
i dont know what to make of all this. Its crazy. If we are truly a believer, believe in Allah and Day of Judgement, a muslim wouldnt do all this evil thing. We cant pay evil with evil. The western dominates our muslim land, to “get rid of terorists”, so why the fuzz over “the alleged plot by al-aqedah on the ny sub” didnt we go to war to get rid of terrorrist? This is all evil talks… to instigate ppl fear and look upon us(muslims) differently. Ppl can be so stupid at times, just about anyone can used an arabic name… for example, how are we to know that the suicide bombers are muslims just coz they wear viel and used the word Allah? Doesnt mattetr what we muslims says or didnt say,do or didnt do, the blame is on us all. Blamed the muslims, Blamed islam and blamed muslims countries.
Ppl afraid that obama will be too lenient against the muslim countries, and what is best way to twist him around then to attach terrorism to muslim. India blamed pakistan- a muslim country… when is this all gng to end?
Fear Allah and trust in Him. Be patience and steadfast.

Nishant should realise that non-muslim communities too have the same problem with some of their folk taking exception to giving unconditional and unqualified sympathy to muslims when the boot’s been worn by the other foot.

Geoff: I havent heard any leaders from Muslim countries condemning the attacks, and i dont think i have ever heard a Muslim Sheik condemn any attack in the world.

You haven’t heard it because you spend far too much time on islamophobic and right-wing sites, and you haven’t heard it because the news of condemnation is not as sensationalist as the news of the crime itself. Muslims and Muslim scholars have been condemning this stuff ad nauseum to the point that you see some of the responses of “condemnation-fatigue” (like Br. Naeem).

So, why don’t you help us Geoff in first learning, and then spreading the information, if you are truly sincere and not just another hater… let me give you one link that will take care of your question:

When anything like this happens Muslims always seem to be pushed on the back foot whilst being asked to condemn such atrocities, and of course we condemn terrorism, be it Muslim individuals and/or groups or state sponsored terrorising of innocent people. So we hope that you will return the favour and condemn the oppression against the Palestinians, the unjust invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as the oppression in Moroland and many other places around the world to name but a few.

Muslim scholars have now for many years been condemning terrorism is the strictest of terms. If you are a just man and are interested to read their condemnation then feel free to click on the following link:

This is unbelievable. I’ve visited Mumbai and considering the size and complexity of the city, I can’t imagine the havoc and chaos that’s spread throughout it now. May Allah protect the people and bring the terrorists to justice.

I’m overwhelmed by the responses of Muslims to this mindless tragedy (which is still going on). Any thinking person would know that this violent killing has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims or any religion for that matter. All religions preach (should preach) peace and prosperity, life and love and justice. And it has now become usual to blame any and every violent act to “islamic extremists”. Actually the people who perpetrate it have no religion and no values. They are sick, miserable, losers in life who cannot bear to see other human beings living in peace. They want to kill and destroy because they cannot live happily in this world.
I have a dream: If only the eastern nations join together and form an Eastern Union like the European Union, it would benefit everybody. Poverty would be driven away from our countries. Who knows, we would become more wealthy than the western nations, if we trade with each other and have a single currency. This can happen if we decide to shed our differences and join together as brothers and sisters, since that is what we are/were, a few thousands of years ago.

the only group to claim responsibility that i have read about calls itself “Deccan Mujahideen.” regardless of why they picked that name, to the rest of the world, they look like Muslims, sound like Muslims, and act like Muslims. why “act like Muslims”? because too few people in the world think of articles like this one and clinics like this one when they think of Muslims.

we should be thought of as defenders of the poor and as people who care for the disenfranchised. and that image requires action to shake off the filth that terrorists cast upon Islam.

may Allah punish those who commit such evil in this life and in the next. one could hope that they may repent for their deeds, but the victims’ and their families should have the full measure of justice from them.

@Naeem — if i understood your post, consider for a moment how many readers of this blog condemned a woman like Sonal Shah for all the statements she did not make when Hindus spread terror throughout Gujarat. just as in this case, the terrorists were extremists and not representative of all Hindus nor all Muslims.

I am a Pakistani and totally condemn this cowardly attack! These terrorists have no religion at all. These very same people are responsible for instability in Pakistan and these religion-less people even kill Muslims. Maybe USA behind all these as only CIA is powerful enough to carry such attacks. Pakistan is already pre-occupied with its own problems that Pakistan cannot do this hedious thing!!!

I actually have similar hopes. If Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, perhaps even China and some other South-Asian countries, can all join in a EU type free-trade, one-currency area, I think that will be a huge boon for the economies of the countries, and reverse the divide-and-rule British legacy.

I continue to get questions from my Indian (Hindu) friends whether I still believe that the partition was good. My answer is that there is no point of bemoaning or celebrating history (depending on perspective), but rather the time is to talk about the future. One way to get the best of both worlds, kind of like pre-partition India but with autonomous regions, is the EU model. Nations maintain their sovereignty, while there is free flow of capital and labor.

Of course, this will happen only when we solve or resolve the thorny issues such as Kashmir, terrorism, etc. I hope one day we will have the leaders to make that happen. I really believe that an independent, autonomous Kashmir (consisting of both Pakistani and Indian sides), with open access to all, self-ruled, would be the ultimate solution. Only then will this beautiful valley will cease to be the cause of so much ugliness.

HELLO MY DEAR MUSLIM FRIENDS.
AM AN INDIAN.
PLEASE DO SOME THING.
WE R FRIGHNTENED TO WALK THRU OUR OWN STREETS.
PAST 3 MONTHS SOME PEOPLE FRM UR COUNTRY OUR BOMBING US.
CANT GO OUT HAPPILY.
WE LOST OUR LIVES.
WE LOST OUR PEOPLE.
OUR HAPINESS.
PLZ HELP US.
I CANT KEEP WITHOUT CRYING.
PLZ WE HAV TO STOP THESE TERRORIRSTS.
WE MADE ABDUL KALAM AN MUSLIM AS THE PRIME MINISTER OF OUR NATION.
WE DONT SE RELIGIONS.
BUT SOME PAKISTHANIS R REALY ILL TREATING US.
AND C HOW V HAV TO SUFFER.PLZ FRNDZ LETS B UNITED
ONLY 1 LIFE
LETS LIFE THAT LIFE HAPILY PEACEFULLY WITH OUR FELLOWMEN
PLZ PLZ STOP ALL .. PLS

I can’t imagine anyone hurting innocent person. The picture of little baby girl being given water breaks my heart and I can’t understand how anyone can shoot a baby that can’t even talk or defend their lives.

SubhanaAllah my friend Jameela lives went to India for school and was actually having dinner at the taj mahal hotel an hour before the incident, alhumdulilah she was saved.

They were actually targeting American and British citizen and she actually was carrying her passport when she went to the hotel, but alhumdulilah nothing happened to her and as soon as she left the incident happened. I pray those responsible are punished severely no matter what their religion is. I can’t believe any one claiming to be Muslim can be responsible for such horrific act against anyone.

I will begin this post with the following preface: I am not a socon and I do not visit right wing sites. I am attempting to give you an honest impression as a non-Muslim.

To begin, as a non-Muslim, I am heartened by the outrage displayed on this site. I am also aware that there are many injustices perpetrated against Muslims. The problem, however, is that your outrage does not seem to lead to action. Someone mentionned Abu Ghraib (sp?). Well most Americans were outraged by what happened at Abu Ghraib and the place was shut down. From our vantage point, there is a lot of talk, but talk is cheap. Extremists are not punished in Muslim countries. They are rewarded. Hamas is elected by Palestinians. Hezbollah are viewed as heros in Lebanon. That psycho just released by the Israelis a few months ago (the one that killed the little 4 year old girl 20 years ago) was given a hero’s welcome. Egypt does nothing to stop the flow of bombs and guns into Gaza. Iran sponsors terrorist organization throughout the world. Bombs explode in Pakistan with the mere mention of secular democracy. There is an old adage (I forget who said it), people get the governments they deserve. Another one is governments are always a reflection of the people. I guess what I am saying is that most westerners feel that if Muslim really wanted to stop extremists, they would.

Furthermore, I believe counterproductive to blame others for poverty or extremism. Problems must be solved from looking within. For example: the US killed hundreds of thousands of Iraquis!!! Well … seems to me (and I was against the war) that since 2004 most of the killings have been committed by Muslim extremists. Why are Muslims not taking advantage of the opportunity, regardless of the U.S. real reasons, for democracy? 1 million dead babies in Iraq!!!! Well … Saddam Hussein sold oil, received money from the UN, and lined his pockets instead of distributing the money to feed Iraquis. Of course, the UN was complicit in this disgusting behaviour, but it seems to me Muslims should be holding Saddam responsible for this.

Finally, I believe if you wish to solve a problem, it must first be identified. Islamic terrorists use direct quotes from the Qur’an to justify their murderous rampages. If Christian groups were to commit such atrocities and use the New Testament as justification, I would be the first to condemn them as Christian terrorists. In fact, those murderers that bombed abortion clinics in the 1990’s were labelled as Christian terrorists and put in jail. The terrorists may have misinterpreted the Qur’an, but to deny the Qur’an has any influence in their behaviour is to look away from the problem. I fail to see how one can look away from a problem and solve it.

I hope I have not offended too many Muslims with this post. I am simply being honest and trying to give you another perspective. I am happy to hear that many of you are sickened by these events. These types of things should sicken us all. I am also open to any rebuttals any of you may have ;)

Oh … and Gregory … this if off topic but I had a good laugh over your prescription for prosperity. If you want to have a good discussion some time about how to actually create wealth let me know …

Charles, the last I checked Putin, the mass-murderer of Chechens, is still quite popular in Russia. He receives a roaring welcome every time by 90%+ of Russians. The last I remember, Sharon, the butcher of Sabra Shatila, actually became the direct PM of the terrorist state of Israel. I am sure he had more than a few supporters. The last I remember, Bush who oversaw a war of deceit, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, actually beat Kerry in 2004. Hmm…

I guess sometimes its easy to become myopic in one’s own sense of moral-high. The vast majority of unjust killings today are actually happening against Muslims today, some no doubt sectarian, but by no means the majority.

While some terrorists use automatic rifles, others use jets, drones and cluster bombs. Some wear T-shirts for their animal-like rites, others wear uniforms. But the dead are all still buried in the same earth. Their families still grieve over them. Their children still become orphans.

I was hoping to stick to the message of pure condemnation here, and not conflate it with other conflicts. But when that rhetoric is forced, let me make it clear that there are no totally innocent bystanders here. Let not those who live in glass-houses throw stones at others.

P.S. I would advise you to read “who speaks for islam”, you can find reviews/summaries on the section about radicalism on MM (here and here). Objective data belies the subjective viewpoint of islamic motivations. Indeed the grievances are always political, islam is just used and abused. Just like the crusaders used christianity. Read the book, you’ll learn a thing or two hopefully.

^^
Actually the list of reasons offered for not condemning these attacks is rather incoherent and strange to say the least. Here are my top 5 reasons why the 5 reasons given are wrong:

1) Does it really matter who was involved in the attacks before we choose to condemn it? As Muslims, we stand up for justice wherever injustice is served, regardless of who is responsible.
2) What information should we await before condemning barbarianism? Is there really any possibility that some new information could come out that would make us eat our words (and let’s be specific to this case)?
3) Should we really care about the politics of how India is perceived in the media? Should we be that callous about our words when a human tragedy unfolds in front of us?
4) How is supporting Kashmiri resistance against government entities, which are DIRECTLY engaged in brutality against civilians, have anything to do with the killing of other innocent civilians in other parts of India? When did condemning and expressing outrage over a human tragedy somehow preclude supporting the Kashmiri right to self-determination? That is the strangest logic I have heard.
5) Finally, what does geography and politics have to do with this? We are in a age of globalization. We are all connected, like it or not. I don’t need to be in India to have a pretty good feel of what’s going on.

Ultimately, I think there is more good to be had in Muslims continuing to speak out against injustice of all forms (against them and against others).

Charles, go meet some Muslims. Problem is with most white Americans is you haven’t done anything to learn about Muslims besides watch CNN. Do a little more than talk to the dude with the heavy accent, go and talk to some 2nd-3rd generational Muslims who are active amongst Muslims to get a real idea of what goes on.

Check this out:

At least three top Indian police officers — including the chief of the anti-terror squad — were among those killed, said Roy.

These guys are getting smarter.

Among those foreigners still held captive in all three buildings were Americans, British, Italians, Swedes, Canadians, Yemenis, New Zealanders, Spaniards, Turks, French, a Singaporean and Israelis.

So when it’s the white man, it gets important see. The only time the Indian gov’t would make this much of a fuss would be if it’s the white man they worship. Compare this to the living conditions of Indians (regardless of religion) in Dubai.

Very interesting read indeed. At least the authors try to take a more objective stance.

By the way, I have been noticing this “divide” in Indian society in the universities here. In nearly every class at Wharton, there are between 15-25% Indian-origin students. But in the 3 batches that I took a cursory look at, including mine, not one of the Indians has been a Muslim. I discussed this with some of the Indian Hindu friends at school, and also Indian Muslims in the community. Answers have ranged from “yes it is discrimination” to “Muslims have different priorities”. I can take the “different priorities” excuse for a small shift in the law of averages. But when I don’t consistently see 2-3 Indian Muslims in every batch here (and I think the same applies to nearly every ivy school), I find something terribly wrong. Why is the progress of the Indian tiger so Muslim-bankrupt?

The story quoted above sheds some light on the statistical measures that clearly show the demarcation between Hindus and Muslims. Is this justification for Iqbal’s theory that a Muslim minority would never have the same opportunities? It reminds me of the white-black divide right here in the States, but blacks have a history of slavery, which is not the encumbered historical disadvantage that Muslims in India had. So, I would really like to hear from Indians that if this discrimination is true, IF it’s true, how is it implemented?

OK, I lived in India for 26 years and actualy stayed in the very hotel more than once throughout my life when we visited Mumbai as a kid.

No doubt, Killing any living creature including plants without a “reason” is not allowed in any Religion from Adam AS to Muhammed SAS, even in Hinduism from what I know.

So if my slave mentality “desi” brothers/sisers are feeling apolagitic like a knee-jerk response then just be patient/sabr, let India itself do its investigation. There was not once that what happened in India from communal violences to previous Bombay riots that killed so many muslims, the radical hindus actualy marked every houses and businesses of muslim with red paint before they attcked,raped, burned muslims. Thousands of people die every year in india in religious riots, what seems odd is why this time, (long weekend where families need something to talk about) is this being marketed and over-marketed 24/7 on all “mainstream” media?

Harming any-one overtly and without a reason is not human,just by fitra. It seems to me that people in west ( muslims and non-muslims), who were born here and grew-up hear are not mature enough to deal with these fitn ( 9-11 and the likes) compared to someone who is used to all this being in East for the most part. Muslims unfortunately has become more unstable, fitn, enslaved and enemies to them-selves here in west due to their lack of Akhal. Wisdom is better than inteligence.

It is true that we Indian Muslims are behind in worldly terms in India. The reasons are a big story in themselves.

There is majority discrimination-true. But I strongly believe that a community that wants to progress (both spiritually and materially- for the sake of safeguarding spirituality) there is no force that can hold it back.

We have ourselves to blame for the most part. We have been cowardly (terrorism is cowardice too- if at all this has been done by Indian Muslims), lazy, non-committed, egoist etc. etc. We have been fighting amongst ourselves for the most part. Deobandi vs Barailly; modernist vs traditionalist. Each of these groups hate the other group more than anybody else- and obviously they are not loving or hating for God’s sake.

Yes, we have been through discrimination. But it is us who are the only one who can turn the situation with the help of Allah. Not anybody from outside.

there is apparently at least one Muslimah from Houston who was visiting her family in Mumbai during these days of turmoil. and people who know her ask that we pray for her safety, and that of her family and neighbors. may Allah keep them safe and secure during this crisis.

the people who are caught up in such man-made madness are all victims, regardless of their ethnicity, nationality, or faith. anyone who has to stop and imagine what it is like to be one of these victims has forgotten, blocked out, or was too young during 9/11. i was more than three thousand miles away on the west coast when the twin towers were destroyed, and it felt as awful as if the buildings had been in downtown LA or Santa Monica. who attacked the twin towers had nothing to do with my being a victim that day, me or the millions of Americans like me, or the millions upon millions of people all around the world who felt America’s pain as if it was their own. it’s the awful nature of the deaths and injuries inflicted on so many innocent people, and the gutwrenching loss of so many valiant first responders who gave their lives to protect others.

the word for man in Arabic reflects the forgetful nature of man. and among the things we forget too easily are the reasons we should empathize and sympathize with the victims of terror.

Abu Akhal (Aql?): If you really believe that your condescending remarks about other Muslims (enslavement, etc.) are meant to prove that you are wiser, then I think you have already failed the simplest litmus test for wisdom– the ability to make your message palatable.

Yes, it is sadly true, even in india, starting from middle school, we do not represent in education as much as we represent in population (estimation of percentage range from 15-25) forget elsewhere. There are many reasons, actually there was a committee set up by central committee known as Sachar Committee, here you can find the findings and recommendations

Here is couple of findings to realize the situation.

* 25 per cent of children of Muslim parents in the 6-14 year age group have either never attended school or have dropped out.
* Muslim households in urban areas are in the less than Rs.500 ($10/month) expenditure bracket.
* Post graduation is about 2% (of muslims)

I studied at Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), which is supposedly MIT equivalent of india, sadly out of total 5000+ students in our campus, there were only about 35+ muslim students (btw, education is almost free in IITs, as a matter of fact, I got thousands of dollars (not rupees) in scholarships :) ). Awareness among our ummah is very poor. Alhamdhulillah, now Indian muslims realized the need for the education and our new generation is trying hard (it is still very hard to compete with poor economic conditions and illiterate parents). May Allah bless us with the knowledge and understand and make us an example.

There are many reasons economical and social, but main reason is that, mostly our elder generation is illiterate, mainly ‘coz of our wonderful wise ulema’s fatwas during the independence time that banned muslims to study in schools and colleges (they ‘wisely’ found parallels with the narrations like “Whomsoever follows other tradions does not belong to us”). Many of them left schools and colleges (one famous example is Qaed-e-millat) , otherwise they were out casted by the muslim community.

We lack leadership, the only party representing muslims, Muslim league is corrupted big time, indian muslims are abused over and over by muslim league. Politicians do not care about welfare, all they care is about vote, they use muslim league to get our votes and give some positions to some leaders and ditch us untill the next election. Alhamdhulillah, there is some awareness among muslims are risen now. (In some states — like in tamilnadu, kerala and karnataka, we got some reservation for muslims, though I do not agree with it completely, but this might be good push to begin with).

In almost every university here in US, percentage of indian muslims among indians might be between 0-3% (may be with exception in chicago and few similar areas).

Already we are struggling with our own complex issues, with that, all these divisive politics and these hatred fueling, animosity creating activities adds worse to our rights and issues.

We are struggling with optimism. Please do remember us in your duas, InshaAllah, we hope that next generation indian muslims will be an example, YES WE CAN.

Please do not be so hard on Abu Akhal. Even though his conclusions are wrong, in my opinion, he states some correct facts (not all) to draw those wrong conclusions.

Manas, quite possibly. My point was that the message would have been more effective without resorting to condescending remarks.

Al-Madrasi, yes very aware of IIT… mashallah, that is awesome that you went there. At least a couple from there in my class, including one who I am tight with. The picture you paint is quite interesting, and attacks the issues from outside-in, rather than inside-out (similar to what Manas mentioned). I think that recognition is the giant step towards self-correction. I hope that the external discrimination can be managed, and hopefully eliminated one day inshallah.

It’s tough times for Muslims all over the world… the fitan are falling on us like raindrops during a heavy downpour. Reminds me of Shaykh Yasir’s lecture on Fitan (highly recommended CD). We can all do our individual bit to keep as much of it at bay, with Allah’s help.

SubhanAllah, I have to admit being a Kashmiri, I never know how to react to such situations when they occur in India. I am not saying they are right or that there can be any justification for such acts.

However, I stayed in Pakistan side of Kashmir till the age of ten and have seen countless stories of Indian side of Kashmiri refugees….how they were forced to abandon their houses, how mothers saw their sons being killed in front of their eyes, and even met the sisters who were gang raped (U might get to hear these stories in news or read them in newspaper but meeting the people who went through this hell is a completely different experience). Though, I was very young to understand or comprehend the full picture, but those stories, tears , hopelessness left a huge impact in my views towards India and needless to say I always pictured them (hindus) to be monsters (again it was due to the age..my uncle is a politician in Kashmir and I would visit those refugee camps with him..now that I think about it, it was very foolish of him to take a ten year old with him , but I guess he wanted me to learn some lessons or to be grateful? After visiting those camps, there were times when I couldn’t even go to sleep and would spend whole night dreaming about the day when Kashmir will be free, when the sisters wont have any fear…In fact I would dream about how my uncle will set them free and become famous like Jinnah;-)

These incidents should be a reminder for Indians about what people in Kashmir go through every day and they have been going through this terror for decades now! It is very unfortunate that Pakistan has abandoned the Kashmiri cause and basically left them in their own. Why just Pakistan, entire Muslim Ummah has abandoned them! Every time, someone speaks about injustice, terror, genocide, countries like Palestine, Chechnya , Iraq are mentioned, but no one ever bothers to include Kashmir in it? (The only mainstream speaker who mentions Kashmir with Palestine is Imam Anwar Awleki , for which I admire him)- Just because Kashmir doesn’t have a holy place, does that justify abandoning them and their cause?

I want to say something about the usual excuses given by Muslims and posted here by some people.

Some Muslims try to justify these evil attacks on civilians by saying the US/West has killed “millions” in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Firstly i dont think we should be in Iraq but Afghanistan was justified. The west hasnt killed “millions” , 90 % of the killings are from Muslims planting bombs in the street. Any deaths caused by the west are as a result of attacking terrorists, not people in the street.

What is the west trying to do here? Force religion on people? No . Kill innocent civilians? No.

They are trying to fight the terrorists and help the people to set up their own government so we can leave and hopefully stop these senseles attacks on innocent civilians all over the world.. We are trying to rescue the people and save them from evil barbaric butchers. We are building schools and infrastructure so your children, incuding girls can go to school.

Do you Muslims rather live under Taliban rule than a democracy? Do you Muslims rather Saddam Hussein than democratic Iraqi government?

The west is not trying to destroy these countries or install Christianity or foreign values, its not fighting the muslim on the street. We are trying to find and get rid of terrorists. We want to leave these countries.

Anyone who says the west is the same as terrorists has the mind of a terrorist. There is no comparison.

Lol, reading some of the contradictory comments posted here made me had a good laugh.

Some Muslims don’t want to condemn this Anti-Islaamic cowardly act because they say that how do we know that Muslims have done it. And then these same Muslims want to somehow justify these attacks by saying that, well excesses have been commited against Muslims.

So the apparent contradictory statements are obvious.

Hence being a Muslim from India I condemn these terrorist acts no matter who has done it. And just because my fellow Muslims (may Allah have mercy upon them) have been killed in the Gujarat carnage, Islam does not allow me to go on indiscriminately killling innocent civilians.

I’m a fellow desi from Mumbai and it was indeed difficult to watch. Like everyone else, I too condemn this horrific act. I always looked forward to visiting Mumbai as a child and have visited that area many times.

I don’t know if you all saw this piece on CNN with Deepak Chopra. It was an interesting piece.

I am a Hindu living in the US. For the longest time, I have fought those Hindu who talked in sweeping terms about Muslims. I would tell them that Muslims are peace loving people and remind them that terrorists are a fringe element. I would also remind them that Hindus have militant groups and have killed in the name of religion as well.

But, brothers and sisters, I am getting tired. Of seeing my people getting gunned down on the streets, tired of the bombs, and tired of the rhetoric that is being used on Islamic sites – rhetoric that is designed to breed hate and discontent.
So you say there are atrocities commited in Kashmir by the Indian army, and although you hasten to say that nothing justifies terrorism, you still whisper, “Kashmir” because as moderates you abhor violence, and yet it is your silent support of these people that gives them power.

“Lol, reading some of the contradictory comments posted here made me had a good laugh.

Some Muslims don’t want to condemn this Anti-Islaamic cowardly act because they say that how do we know that Muslims have done it. And then these same Muslims want to somehow justify these attacks by saying that, well excesses have been commited against Muslims.”

Maybe I should have made myself clearer. There is no justification for the type of attacks we have just witnessed in Mumbai and I like most on this board condemn them. What I was getting at is that we are constantly asked by non-Muslims why our scholars are not speaking out against such atrocities and why we are not condemning such terrorist attacks. It doesn’t seem to matter how many statements the scholars put out, the western media never choose to report them, it doesn’t matter how many general Muslims denounce such attacks they don’t seem to want to hear, they then carry on accusing us of non-condemnation and say that we as a Muslim community are not doing enough to curb certain rogue elements in our midst.

On the flipside of this, when acts of terror, illegal invasions, mass carpet bombing and oppression are carried out by non-Muslim governments these same non-Muslims refuse to condemn such actions, yet still expect us to condemn the actions of a very small fringe of Muslims, is this not a case of double standards? We are always being made to be on the defensive and asked to apologise for the actions of others, yet such actions are alien to Islam to begin with and Islam is free of them, so just what exactly would we be apologising for.

So yes we condemn such actions, be they committed by Muslims or non-Muslims, and there is no justification for what we have just witnessed in Mumbai, but we just wish that those who are always asking us to condemn, apologise, etc. would meet us at a level playing field and take the same wholesale condemnation of injustices and oppression, as opposed to their pic ‘n’ mix approach.

Yes the non-muslims don’t condemn the terrorism and extremism done by their community. In fact there was support amongst majority of Hindus for the terrorists from the Hindu community who were arrested. But we are not like these non-muslims who have no Hidaya. We are Muslims who follow the religion of truth. There is a difference between them and us. We can’t take guidance from what they do and don’t. We take guidance from the Quran and Sunnah. So according to the Quran and Sunnah we must condemn these injustices against Humanity.

These terrorists irrespective of which community they have been born into are mentally unstable and even psychotic for killing indiscriminately.

This is not a time to bring up Kashmir and Gujarat.

We must proactively bring Kashmir and Gujarat at all forums and discussions at all times and not when some insane guys start killing innocent people.

More than 6,000 clerics signed the edict, which follows a similar one issued earlier in the year by India’s top Islamic institution Darul Uloom Deoband. The fatwa follows a series of police crackdowns on Muslims after bomb blasts across Indian cities this year in which more than 200 people have died.

It was interesting to see the response of the conference to news of the arrests of some right-wing Hindu militants and a military officer in connection with two recent blasts, originally blamed on Muslims.

Rather than make any political capital out of it, Madani said he disapproved the use of term ‘Hindu terrorist’ saying his organisation was opposed to linking terrorism with any religion.

“We are against linking terrorism to Hindus or Hinduism just as we are opposed to linking it to Muslims or Islam,” he said.

and i like the honesty of the blogger, “Thinking of bombs from Islamabad to Mumbai.” subhanAllah, it was just September that the Marriott in Islamabad was bombed… i’m not saying the tragedy in one city is directly linked to that of the other, but it gives me pause to note how we easily we treat each incident as a bubble. more of the nature of being insaan.

Yes Mudsir, I agree with you. I am not saying that we shouldn’t condemn “wrongs” just because some non-Muslims don’t or pick and choose which “wrongs” they wish to condemn. My original comments were addressed to Geoff and my point was and is that we condemn all “wrongs” and not just “wrongs” that Muslims may or may not have committed, whereas some non-Muslims only condemn “wrongs” committed by Muslims whilst ignoring the “wrongs” that their fellow non-Muslims commit.

Why do we condemn it “as muslims” why not “humans” for a change. And remember we may condemn as vocally as possible the indian government without even a shred of evidence is going to pin it on pakistan.

“Of seeing my people getting gunned down on the streets”, what do you mean by “my people”, if you meant the ‘hindus’ by people, then you are very wrong, terrorists indiscriminantly attacked civilians in india, which consists about 20% muslims, so there is a chance that 20% of the victims are bound to be muslims. Its just ‘coz media does not report the victims religion does not mean all are hindus. If you meant ‘hindus’ by ‘my people’, that gives me skeptism of your lines

For the longest time, I have fought those Hindu who talked in sweeping terms about Muslims. I would tell them that Muslims are peace loving people and remind them that terrorists are a fringe element. I would also remind them that Hindus have militant groups and have killed in the name of religion as well.

This is also reminder for the people who have mixed opinion about similar attacks, in any such activities, muslims are also bound to be victims.

Once again, there is no justification for this senseless slaughter. The perpetrators should be publicly executed, and made an example of.

But sitting on a moral high horse claiming western armies are better is sheer nonsense. By numbers alone, they have killed a thousand times more people, including countless civilians and innocent bystanders (both “collateral” and deliberately targeted). And those they haven’t killed, live in a state of duress, war, occupation, and starvation. 1.5 million blockaded in Gaza are in inhuman conditions, barely surviving, yet receive little attention from media. Muslims prisoners are routinely tortured. Despotic undemocratic Arab Regimes and the US are bedfellows. Israeli land grabs are routine under US international pressure. Western strikes against Muslim civilians receive far less media attention than incidents like this. Israeli massacres of Palestinian women and children are excused as “collateral damage”, with UN investigations into them a joke.

The whole “spreading democracy” excuse is a sham. Who gave Saddam most of his power in the first place? who created AlQaeda, BinLaden, and supported the Taliban? Why wasn’t anyone screaming democracy in the 80’s when Saddam was meeting US allies by day, and killing his people by night? The US basically made these beasts, and then turned on them when no longer politically convenient with the pretext that they are against freedom. This is true for nonMuslim political opponents as well, South America, is full of examples, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Venezuela ….

It is really ridiculous to label a loose militia with machine-guns as terrorists, yet states with rocket launchers, tanks, f16s are simply doing their job. I can see how emotionally a westerner might be inclined to hate Muslims, and label them as terrorists, and see themselves as the freedom flag bearers. But emotions aside, thinking about it logically says who is a far bigger terrorist. The reason is disgusting incidents like this receive 10 times more media attention than disgusting actions by western armies.

At the end of the day, we as Muslims have to deal internally with this problem of terrorism, root out these morons that can’t tell the difference between an occupying soldier and innocent civilians. Inhuman idiots like this plague our image worldwide. It would make it easier if outsiders stopped invading Muslims :)

Understood correctly, Islam teaches that the use of terrorism is unacceptable for any purpose. Therefore we at MCN wish to extend heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims and the Indian people at this tragic time. Peace and justice will never be implemented through such cowardly actions against civilians. Regardless of background or affiliation, those truly responsible for brutal and immoral attacks should be brought to justice through swift application of the law.

The All-India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat, the umbrella body of Muslim organizations, has stated: “The whole Indian Muslim community is saddened by the terrorist attacks. We unconditionally and with all the force at our command condemn this beastly act and consider it a crime of the most serious nature.” The signatories included Syed Jalauddin Ansari Umare, amir of the Jamaat-Islami Hind; Mahmood Madni, MP and leader of the Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind; Shahid Siddiqui, general secretary of the Bahujan Samaj Party; Zafarul-Islam Khan, president of the Mushawarat; Navaid Hamid, general secretary of the Movement for the Empowerment of Muslim Indians, and S.Q.R. Ilyas, member of the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board.

We note our colleagues at Council of American Islamic Relations and MPAC have also denounced the taking of hostages along with the attacks; and that they caution the Indian authorities against retaliatory acts against some of the 130 million Indian Muslims. We share that concern. Certainly the cause of peace in Kashmir and in the world cannot be served by a new cycle of violence. Instead let us engage in deeper and more sincere dialogue. We are ready to promote such dialogue to avoid further escalation.

Now I am Convinced that Islam stands for terror. So many incidents involving muslims does not point to a minority of the population supporting such acts. There is no tolerance in muslims which is proved from the fact that there were so many protest for the Danish Cartoons. The only option is annihilation of Pakistan and shifting of muslims to Middle east and total seperation from the rest of the world

As for your “only” option…. it sounds very familiar to me..it sounds like the radical Muslims who want to annihilate the west and to shift the christian and the jews to Antarctica for a total separation LOL.. come man… be reasonable and don’t fall in the same ignorant dumb and idiotic net of radicalism.

Dude can you explain why so many terrorist incidents are linked to ISLAM. and if u say Islam doesnt support terrorism then why do people in palestine mourn on the death of militants. why do they take a procession. And by all the arguments these people are not Muslims then as they dont follow “ISLAM” . India should be like Israel. Fence the border with Pakistan. Shoot any one trying to come to India. First of all we need Civil law in India.

You just proved to me your radicalism… but thats a separate and different discussion.

I ll try to answer you…

First, you have to look at political oppression that we go through (whether in the middle east, the subcontinent, or even in the west) and then think about Newton Third Law of nature…. he said “For every action there is a reaction, equal in magnitude and opposite in direction”

If you really want to solve the problem, then you need to look at its roots, not just some superficial look like you did.

As for the Palestinian point, it is simple really. Please put your self in their choose and think what would you have done. A foreign country comes and take your land, take your power, destroy your houses, controls your means of living (ie. water, gas, food, jobs, etc) and commit injustice towards you.. .then you tell me how would you react..

No one said that they are not Muslims… they are… yet they are criminals and murderers no doubt. (Talking about those who kill people or blow up building etc) and they MUST be punished.

As for the “building a fence around India” dude.. come on.. its freaking india… who in the hell wants to go there in the first place.. all them hindu indians are filling up Dubai, Saudi, Kuwait and other Muslim countries. If anything, the Arabs should be the ones kicking all you hindu people out (using your same logic which I disagree with)

Finally… Islam is not a source of terrorism. Nor was Christianity as a religion when they launched their crusader attacks on Muslims land back a few hundred years ago…. its radical people who think like you who cause such smear to their religion, whatever that might be.

This whole thread is not about justifaction but condemantion of the events in Mumbai – please open your mind.

The millions of the deaths in Iraq can be directly attributed to the invasion and subsequent occupation by Western powers. Whilst it may be debatable that that a significant proportion of the violent deaths in Iraq has been casued by “Muslims”, one cannot deny if the Iraqi state had provided security for its cititzens the number of deaths would have been signifcnatly less (what do you think would happen in the US if we dismantled the Army and the Police?).

In anycase, even if the Coalltion caused just 31% of civillian deaths, then going by the conservative numbers of the Lancet’s 2006 study, at very least 200,000 deaths have been attributed to Coalltion forces – far outwieghing the number of non-muslims killed in by ‘muslim’ terrorism. All this is not to mention the many 1.5 million (mostly children) that died in the decade long seige of Iraq imposed by West. Here is what ramsey Clark, former Attorney General of the United States had to say about the sanctions: twf.org/News/Y1997/Ramsey.html

I could go on about the long term effects on mortalisty by depleted uranim used by the coallition forces (cadu.org.uk/info/iraq) , the lack of santiation, water supply etc (all causing premature deaths) but then would it make a difference to you?

Whilst the West may asipre to great values, it often falls short of it. Like countlesss regimes before it, from Acient Rome in Eruope to the British Empire in India, the US says it is fighting for greater values like liberty and freedom, this is as lie. Remember, Georgh Bush said he inviaded Iraq beacuse “God” told him to do it – guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa.

But For Muslims the killings in India are doubly painful, first because innocent people have been killed and second because it may have been carried out by Muslims – as Muslims we hold ourselvers to higher standards that Allah has ordained for us, it pains us that these few people put so many of us to shame.

I am not a radical. I just want to defend my Mother , father , Wife and my family from the terror of Islam. One more thing man , why is Pakistan or other islamic countries not secular. Doesnt that tell u wherever Muslims are majority that state will be a Islamic state

Inaa li’laahi wa’inaa ileyhi raji’oon! Subhana’Allah, it really saddens me when something like this occurs…it’s as if we lul ourselves into a false sense of security before cold water is thrown in our faces. And it really saddans me when we Muslims have to state the obvious…that of course we condemn these attacks, that of course life is precious regardless of what faith you practice, that of course these “men” masquerading as Muslims who take responsibility for these hateful acts are far removed from Islam and it’s teachings…of course! But for now we do need to keep reiterating these points, even if they should be obvious. We also have to keep reminding ourselves that Muslims are not the ones holding up Islam (although we should be examples of what islam respresents). Islam has always been and will always be Allah’s religion and nothing these terrorists (‘Muslim’ and non-Muslim alike) do will dampen it’s affect. The prove of that is in the numbers and the ever increasing revert/convert population in the west. May Allah (swt) give us all guidance in these trying times, and May He (swt) keep us all straight on His most Perfect path. Ameen!

I told you I am from India, you should know better I will make mistakes in english , like I always do, but my point of view is clear from where i am comming from,Have you had the same experiance living in India?

I assume you are my fellow indian. If you think only option is annihilation, yes, annihilate and isolate the divisive indian politicians from politics, then everything will be back to normal and peaceful. Look at the way our ‘honorable’ politicians behave, already our politicians started the blame game while still the operation was going on. Why do these politicians have to come and jeopardize the situation while the NSG operations were going on?. India was very much peaceful except kashmir untill 1992. If you are really concerned indian, you would know who started all these, these same guy who cries in front of media shamelessly was the first accused of the seed incident.

It seems like one set of politicians eagerly waiting to score cheap brownie points on such a heinous acts. As long as we think, these people are going to take care of our security, we are stupids. This is what they exactly want, to make us feel insecure and afraid so that they can get our votes.

The only option is annihilation of Pakistan and shifting of muslims to Middle east and total seperation from the rest of the world

Isnt this annihilation Nazism, I’m sure you are quite well aware what happened to Nazis. Dont be radical, be rational. If we unite together, we can do wonders, Do not fall into the traps of divisive politicians.

Just a curiosity, where were you when you heard the hindu fringe elements like terrorists Sadhwi etc?. Were you in hybernation?, if not you would not have convinced

I am just surprised to see you all muslims condemining the extremists and terrorists belonging to your faith because recently when there were Terrorists arrested from amongst the Hindus, there was widespread support for these terrorists belonging to our community.
And morever your terrorists were youngsters who were most definitely misguided but our terrorists are all the gurus and pandits of Hinduism. Even a shankaracharya was a terrorist. So now that I think of it, Hinduism promotes and stands for terror. And after the carnage of muslims in so many riots I am ashamed to call myself a Hindu.

Hence I take this oppurtunity to condem all the terrorist activities done by Hindus.

But of course I cant say this in public as the support for these Hindu terrorists is so much that I would be called an anti-natioal for not supporting the terrorists belonging to Hindu community and Hindus being a violent lot, I would be killed withouot any thought whatsoever.

I am a Hindu and for the longest time I have felt nothing but sympathy and empathy for all those caught in conflicts, and those whose freedoms have been taken away. This included Palestinians and Kashmiris – both Hindu and Muslim.

But attack after attack have shaken this faith in the human spirit Or more accurately, shaken my faith in the moderate elements of Islam asserting their dominance over radical elements.

Of course, I thank and congratulate all of you muslims here who are moderate and reasonable , and know that violence only begets violence. I commend you because you have unequivocally condemned these brutalities.

But I ask you this: Have you purged, in your hearts, every trace of support for the most radical elements of your faith? Are you sure that, when you think about Kashmir and Palestine, part of you isn’t somewhat sympathetic to these terrorists?

Because I think, even if you are intellectually a moderate ,a part of your emotional support is, even if it is not completely conscious, behind these elements.

Now, I am not saying Hinduism is not susceptible to the same forces. In recent years, we have seen a surge in Hindu extremism, and I know that even moderate Hindus support these radical elements with the same almost intangible emotional support.

As a Hindu, I feel that these extremist expressions of my religion are understandable in the sense that parts of any community will respond to violence with violence – innocent people are just seen, psychologically, as part of a larger malignant whole. But someday, I hope we will see that all of us were part of a larger whole.
I hope we see that someday soon.

Ganesh, emotions of anger and suspicion are understandable at this time. But people of understanding and common sense should rise above the raw emotion and see the killers for what they are: murderers. They represent no one except themselves. No scholar of any repute, no Muslims gave these killers the right to carry Islam’s banner in their nihilistic quest.

They represent Muslims no more than the the Gujaratis who burnt their Muslim neighbors alive represent mainstream Hindus.

If we let anger get the best of us, then you know and I know, we all know, the cycle of violence will only exact more and more innocent lives. Instead, we have to point fingers ONLY to those were directly or indirectly complicit. Stereotyping and sweeping generalizations only embolden the terrorists and radicals that exist in all faiths. Because these fringe elements want to “bring it on” between the masses.

Do we really want these murderers to achieve their objectives of creating massive divisions and divides? Or do we want to defeat them by not letting them divide people and create distrust between nations, and cause even more pain and suffering for the common people? Think about it. The true mettle of a man comes through when he can control his anger and separate truth from confusion.

I am saddened about what happened in Bombay! It has been absolute carnage, I am especially sad about Hemant Karkare he was going to unravel a lot of truth about our so called just government.

This terrorist attack has received a lot of media attention. The first three front papers in leading London newspapers have been covering this incident. The response has been huge and rightly so because the the people killed were innocent victims. Indians have spoken out against the attack including celebrities!

As a Indian Muslim or should I just say Muslim because time and again we are reminded that we are different, we are Muslims. Don’t get me wrong I love being a Muslim and am proud being a Muslim and would not trade my peace loving and just religion for anything in the world!

Whoever kills a person [unjustly]… it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32).

I would also like to remind my fellow Indians that in 2002 more than a 1000 muslim died in the Gujarat riots and hell they were innocent, women were targeted and it was a government precedented attack against innocent Indians . People are still waiting for justice and I know that there does not seem much hope.

The hostages did have hope, they had the police the Indian army and the battalions trying their upmost best to rescue them. What did the innocent victims of Gujarat have ? nothing ??? absolutely NO HOPE…………….

I don’t understand why Muslims are the first to denounce these attacks. Lets not forget that this whole episode took place in India. The governments of India have been known for cooking things up.

Second, why has it become so important for us to denounce these attacks? Shouldn’t we talk about what provoked these attacks? I am not justifying these attacks. But muslims need to do a better job in condemning the loss of innocent muslim lives in Palestine, Kashmir and Iraq.

as a Muslim, as an Indian, i condemn these attacks. subhanAllah what a sad world we live in :(
there are reports of one of the gunmen being arrested who identified himself as a pakistani. i’m not surprised.

Even though im against this henois CRIME BUT IM EVEN MORE SAD ABOUT MUSLIMS WHO ARE BEING KILLED THAT DONT GET COVERED IN THE NEWS.
WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE MUSLIMS BEING KILLED IN SOMALIA? KASHMIR, PALESTINE AND AROUND THE WORLD

If muslims have to move away from extremism, they have to see that their fringe right wing elements are the enemy and purge them out. Consider Pakistan – it’s a country for muslims by muslims – and what do we have? For all the criticism of India, Muslims have more opportunities by and large in India than in Pakistan.

Instead of directing their energies and anger towards India, why are we not seeing a cleansing of the government in Pakistan. If Pakistanis create a better country for themselves, the fringe elements will not be able to gain a foothold.

It’s ironic that the terrorists want an Islamic state and are not fighting for a more just and equitable state in a country that is governed by their own.

Look, we are all in this together. And if we respond with fear and anger, this is only going to get worse until none of our children will be able to walk the streets safely.

We have to all ask ourselves: What am I doing to reduce prejudice, and hatred and to increase tolerance?

India is NOT a secular country. This is a bold faced lie. Hindu mobs rule the country which is why minorities have been targetted in broad daylight. Have you forgotten the Christians of Orissa when Hindu mobs moved in and forcibly converted them to Hinduism, murdering hundreds and raped nuns? What about Gujrat when the state ordered the polive to stand down and support Hindu terrorists who murdered 5000 Muslim men, woman and children.
These are not excuses, but get with reality already. This is a false flag attack designed to demolish all opposition and bring India into the the Anglo-American-Israeli fold. Don’t just condemn, ask tough questions before believing in media lies and manipulation.

Forget it, dear believing friends, condemn this incident for the sake of Allah(swt) and because according to Islam if you see some evil you must at least speak against it. Don’t condemn it to to please the people who worship more than 1 God. They will never be happy or pleased with you unless you become one of them. You might gather a million scholars and a billion Muslims and collectively condemn it but still they are going to say that it was not enough.

These People are no better than the terrorists with their foul tongue which curses Islam and its figures repeatedly. And then you have some Muslims cursing them back.. Now that is not acceptable. We are Muslims having morals and a way of life which these idol worshippers envy. If we stoop down to their level, we have just become like them, a misguided nation.

And don’t try to bring up Gujarat, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, because it will be seen as if we are justifying the UnIslaamic actions of these terrrorists. Now is not a time for that.

Yes I know that it hurts us that countless innocent Muslims have been killed and are being killed yet nobody notices. But that does not justify these mentally disturbed people from whatever community they belong, to kill innocent people indiscriminately.

I see your point, Mudsir…however lets be clear on one thing, bringing up other regional conflicts is not meant to JUSTIFY anything. Its meant to show the hypocrisy and double standards of those pretend that only Muslims commit violent acts. Look at the numbers, people and see how’s killing who and who isn’t condemning what. Indians will blame Pakistan if someone so much as breaks wind in their direction.
Its 2008 and its time people quit acting like sheep. This is a false flag attack designed to demolish all opposition and bring India into the the Anglo-American-Israeli fold and finally get rid of Pakistan and its nuclear capability. Don’t just condemn, ask tough questions before believing in media lies and manipulation.

Mumbai, November 30: Why did the terror stuck Mumbai? Did Maharashtra’s Anti-Terrorism Squad was only on the list of the terrorists? Did terrorists wanted obstruct the ongoing investigation into the bomb blasts? Who might be having enmity with Hemant Karkare the ATS chief who exposed the involvement of Saffron terror module in country?
After going through these questions it is understood that to stop the investigation into the Maharashtra bomb blast the use of Mafia Don Chota Rajan gang was used it is alleged.

According to the highly placed sources it is alleged that the Mumbai terror attack might be aided by Chota Rajan gang who are also in the drug peddling business in Mumbai. The three police officers of Mumbai police that includes Hemant Karkare former ATS chief, Additional Commissioner of Mumbai Police Ashok Kamte and also the encounter specialist Inspector Vijay Salaskar were found to be active against the Chota Rajan gang.

The way Hemant Karkare handled the unbiased investigation of the Malegaon blasts exposing the saffron terror, it was assumed that he had gathered crucial evidence of all the blasts that took place across the country that targeted Muslim areas. Sources in the Mumbai police told that Karkare was just to announce the name of Mafia don Chota Rajan.

It is learnt that Karkare had gathered evidence against VHP leader Praveen Togadia for his alleged links with Malegaon blast case accused and the members of Hindu terror outfit Abhinav Bharat Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, Lt.Col Srikanth Purohit, Dayanand Pandey and also nexus of under world Mafia Don Chota Rajan. Earlier there were reports about the funding of Praveen Togadia to Srikanth Purohit.

It was found that some Hindu forces have tried to use Chota Rajan gang against Under World Don Dawood Ibrahim. The famous journalist with Times of India Amaresh Mishra is of the opinion there is no doubt about the use of foreign youths for terror attacks and it is also a fact that former ATS Chief Karkare was about to mention Praveen Togadia’s name in the Malegaon blasts.

The 26 November Terror attacks on Mumbai are motivated to divert the attention from the Saffron Terror Amaresh Mishra says. There is no doubt that the Hindu Terror forces are trying to use Chota Rajan to achieve their malafide means.

the 3 police officers killed were investigating the masjid attacks in Malegaon and had evidence of hindus being involved. hence its possible they were killed to stop the investigations. India will always blame pakistan. maybe even the BJP did them to bring down the congress? Allah knows best.

So, it seems a lot of Muslims disagree with me and Umar over the perceived need to condemn the recent terrorist attacks in Bombay. Amad at Muslim matters was one of the first Muslims to actually publish a notice of……

As an American Jew, I join you in this condemnation.
Those people, now dead, are all our neighbors, whether we live next door, or halfway across the world.
When the world erupts in fire,
It is easy to lose faith in your fellow man.
Please,
Believe.
Do not merely sympathize–
act.
There are problems around the world,
and justice lies in tatters.

It may not be just, but it is certainly merciful
to let your heart ache for the people
who live in such despair
that they are driven to such deeds.

Do not immortalize them
Act
So that their deeds,
as dire as they are,
may be like the desert sand,
and when given water
may bring peace.

I do not have much to say here, but a business colleague of one of my friends was killed there. He leaves behind a daughter and two cats. They didn’t know he was in Mumbai for business. My friend is heartbroken.

For those who ask that Muslims do not condemn violence by muslims — perhaps you’d be better served by finding some interfaith group, whereby the world’s religions could simultaneously and with a strong voice condemn all of these violent acts.

For now, there are two minutes between a nuclear scare and a nuclear strike. May Allah (may I use that word?) protect everyone…

SubhanAllah, it doesnt seem enough to simply condemn these attacks (or attacks like these). I keep feeling that we should do more. This doesnt simply show a problem with Muslims or Hindus, but a problem with PEOPLE. Will our hearts ever change? (I hope that’s not a question of despair, insha’Allah)

@ Geoff: Whoa! ok, as a black, female convert to Islam who happens to be American, I was a bit surprised and shocked by some of your comments.

“Lets be honest, We can look anywhere in the world and wherever there are Muslims, there is murder and killing.”

Are you saying that the killing didnt start here in America until the Muslims got here? (I’m sure you’re familiar with our county’s history and relationship with blacks, Natives, the Japanese, etc) There was no murder in Europe until the Muslims got there? (Hmm, remember Julius Caesar? Remember how the Crusaders spread Christianity?) No one was killed in Canada, S. America, Australia, Asia, Africa until the muslims arrived? Murder and killing is a flaw with people. As a human, Geoff, be fair.

“We can also see within Muslims countries different branches of Islam will slaughter each other like Sunnis and shi ites.”

Christians have slaughtered each other throughout history. As a human, Geoff, be fair.

“These attacks must take a lot of organization and money. It is too widespread to be a small fringe element. Decent Muslims must know these people and their plans. Sheiks must be aware, the people supplying the money must be aware.”

Did most of us Americans know of Tim McVeigh and his plans? The Unibomber? Eric Robert Rudolph? Did their families even know? If a person or group has the mind to do something, they will do it, by any means necessary. In fact, we americans have a couple home-grown groups of terrorists who have the support of many: the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nation. Be fair, Geoff.

“What is the west trying to do here? Force religion on people? No . Kill innocent civilians? No.
They are trying to fight the terrorists and help the people to set up their own government so we can leave and hopefully stop these senseles attacks on innocent civilians all over the world.. We are trying to rescue the people and save them from evil barbaric butchers. We are building schools and infrastructure so your children, incuding girls can go to school.”

so, it’s the West to the rescue? The West has to step in and help these poor, innocent foreigners because they don’t have sense enough to do these things on their own? Your words scream of typical western, ape-like chest-pounding. Having hope that your countrymen/ those who share your ideals are inherently good is one thing. But closing your eyes to the truth and hiding under a veil of arrogant self-gratification is quite another. Geoff, stop, look and listen. “Trying to.. save them from evil, barbaric butchers”? In order to what? Trade one snake for another who’ll protect their own interests and not the interests of the people?

“Anyone who says the west is the same as terrorists has the mind of a terrorist. There is no comparison.”

Laughable. Open your eyes, man. YOUR intentions may be all well and good. MY intentions may be all well and good. But the intentions of those running the show? The West (no, I’ll be fair, PEOPLE) chase this world like a fox chases a rabbit, we have an insatiable lust for power and wealth. And, audhu billah (we seek refuge with Allah), we PEOPLE befriend the shaytan and adopt the most evil of means to get what we seek. It has nothing to do with religion. It is easy to quote the Qur’an or the Bible or any other book of substance to justify any means, evil or otherwise. (Just take these idiots in Mumbai or the KKK as examples) This is the deception that we PEOPLE have adopted and grown accustomed to using through the ages. This is not to say that people are mostly deceptive: rather people are mostly weak, and our environment, circumstances, and experiences determine our behavior. The wise person will pick up a book and turn off the damn tv if he really wants to learn anything. The wise person will get up, go out, and seek, rather than sit on his rear saying for proof what he learned from the internet or CNN.

No doubt, Geoff, you are an intelligent man. This won’t be disputed here at all, I’m sure. But be fair.

@ Charles:

“There is an old adage (I forget who said it), people get the governments they deserve. Another one is governments are always a reflection of the people. I guess what I am saying is that most westerners feel that if Muslim really wanted to stop extremists, they would.”

Just a question, and this is not meant to start some long diatribe about our exiting administration, but do you think that we Americans deserved 8 yrs of the Bush administration? Were his two terms a reflection of who we are as a people? I don’t know about you, but as an American, I don’t take it too lightly when someone or some group claiming to represent me and my values (which happen to be Islamic, thankyouverymuch) paints me in such a terrible light that I am hated by people worldwide. I’m saying this to say that our government isn’t the best either.

May Allah reward the people who strive to do good in this life. May He overlook our shortcomings. And may Allah crush the mischief-makers and bring them to justice. Ameen. Wa Huwa Allah Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Asslam u alaikum wr wb
As a Pakistani Muslimah, I too condemn acts of terror and violence going on anywhere in the world be they “highlighted” in the media or not. I grieve daily for humans who lose their lives to satiate the apetites of politicians and fanatical leaders. May ALLAH Help us- indeed the creed of humans left in the world today are as described by the Prophet saw in the signs of the hour. And ALLAH Knows best.

Amad, I salute you for providing this leadership and understanding the pain of innocent civilians.
There is no justification for massacres, and no goal is worth it. These sophisticated expensive operations could not be carried out by just a bunch of disgruntled youth so people gotta admit this is a problem beyond the reaction to social ills or ‘injustice’

It is for the first time that a perpetrator has been caught alive-so if skeptical folks will NOT BELIEVE his confession about LeT masterminding this, at least believe the satellite phone trail, or the evidence on abandoned boats, or the unexploded grenade tagged of its Paki factory origin. And frankly, what’s in a name? It could be any group, but if they keep getting a refuge in the country, they could morph in thousand forms and tomorrow attack other countries too- their core philosophy is same even if offered rationale may differ(Kashmir/Anti-US/perceived insults). I believe Indian Muslims have got the best deal in the Muslim world. They are part of an open society and whoever says they face discrimination, has a ‘victim’ mindset. Isn’t this the same country whose ex President is a respected Muslim, where Muslims study along side their Hindu brothers at IITs/IIMs (via an open competitive exam) and many successful execs in India’s corporate world are Muslims, a country where they can open any business and worship anywhere. Can you tell me where in Saudi Arabia is a non-Muslim allowed to practice his faith in public or open a business without a local Arab partner? I have grown up with some fabulous Muslim friends in India and now I live in US- I know its stupid of some Indians to just put a wrong philosophy on the head a whole religion. What I get confused about and an not able to explain to the fanatics on our side is when they question how can a religion that is said to be the religion of peace have phrases in its book to justify converting/killing a non-believer(infidel)!! At least that’s what many radicals justify their actions as. If it has indeed those sentences, modern Muslims need to interpret it as something that is not relevant now. Where is the simple human value of co-existing even if you disagree or practice a different faith?

While I agree there is no military solution and it will only harden the moderate good thinking people of Pakistan when we talk of things like attacking Pakistan etc. But at least a recognition of problem needs to come from rational Pakistanis who need to realize their own nation and its civic fabric is in peril-Frankenstein can eat you more readily since it has easiest access to your land. A stable Pakistan is in everyone’s interest. Believe me, criticizing the govt/state of Pakistan is not same as Pakistani citizens-most of whom themselves have suffered a lot during attacks in their country.

Skeptics need to shed their hesitation and open their eyes-tackling things like these is not just about evidence that can stand in a court room trial or try to find ‘root causes’, but is also the ability to read social undercurrents, mobilize public opinion to do the ‘right thing’ and stand up and say its WRONG, WHATEVER be the reasons behind it. So I find it amusing when some posters even refuse to express regret or say ‘we condemn it BUT look at what Indians are doing in Kashmir…’ (you may want to read NYTimes columnist Tom Friedman who understands the Middle East’s psyche from his years spent there):nytimes.com/2008/12/03/opinion/03friedman.html?th&emc=th

Don’t you understand, the whole concept of ‘India’ will shatter if Kashmir could separate on the basis of religion- then how can India justify its constitution that says its a secular state and all religions co-exist and how can more Muslims than Pakistan live here? That’s why its so important to Indians and they resent so called separatism in Kashmir.

Also I hope we Indians will do some self-reflection- how can we take care of our people and also spend money on securing them rather than spend billions protecting corrupt inept politicians. You are already seeing this anger against politicians in India in the demonstrations or when you talk to Indians.

I would really know the tide is turning when ordinary Pakis say ‘not in my name, not the in the name of my religion, not on my land- these scoundrels who do this need to be banished’

As an ‘Indian’ Muslim , I am appalled that such acts can even be associated with our glorious dheen. Its a shame and pity we are not able to quell this infectious aberration. Blatant apathy towards seeking knowledge and being upon the rightly guided path has dealt a fatal blow for the Muslims of this beautiful subcontinent which produced some of the biggest beacons of knowledge.

Its generally not lack of opportunity that Muslims suffer from, its an identity crisis of sorts sometimes. Opportunities are galore and generally there is minimal if not hardly any discrimination if you really possess talent. Atleast from the 70’s onwards, educated Muslims have had fairly decent progress albeit a virtual de-recognition in the beaureaucratic sector where there is rampant racism for obvious reasons as is anywhere. Khair we dont care about that and Bi-idhnillah doesnt seem that things will ever change either. Tayyib.

What happened to the Adab and Akhlaq that we Muslims should be associated by default. Go to the Muslim majority markets and bazaars, you will find snapshots of character of the worst order – cheating, hoarding and fitna of all hues….. which makes you wonder , whats ‘Muslim’ about these people. Fundamentally , even salams are not returned these days. I remember a colleague of mine who reprimanded me once for saying salam to him in front of his mananger!!!! Somebody who refuses to join you even for Jummuah citing ‘delivery deadlines boss!!!’. La hawla Quwatha.

Fundamentally the underlying predicament is total lack of knowledge. Something thats Fard Ayn – The knowledge of Tawheed and Shirk, people dont seem interested much. Even where there are people calling to Tawheed , there is so much misguidance and deviance coupled with the dawah, asthagfirullah may Allah have mercy on us. Even amongst the Muslim ummah, the ulema dont see eye to eye and pronounce takfir as much as you and me would blink in a day. A total lack of leadership who will instil confidence and motivation is badly felt today. The fiscal divide and disparity will only be widening spawning more fitan, Na uzubillah. Its like a recursive loop in programming methodology or a deadlock in database jargon. Basically there is no way out unless someone acts. The sands of time are ticking , and the sun is traversing slowly though steadily towards a western sunrise , here we are still wallowing in pits of misguidance and obstinate ignorance, blind to the rope thats hovering over our heads. Its all a matter of leaping forward and holding onto that rope ,not a tenuous brush but a firm perch. May Allah give us the tawfique of holding onto to the Quran and Sunnah and may he give rise to mujaddids whom this beautiful subcontinent is badly in need of.

We have learnt our lessons from the past 100 odd years about the importance of unity in accordance to the Quran and Sunnah. Extreme Hikmah and Maqasidah Shariah need heavy reliance in these turbulent times. I just wish we can halal-clone 35 Sh.Yasir Qadhis and teleport him to all the 28 states and 7 Uninon Territories and make those halal clones call people to the truth!! Bi idhnillah that will have an effect Inshallah ! We just dont have such wonderful duat who can cut across all the spectrums , not compomising on Minhaj and at the same time with amazing results.

Let me tell you guys your past history, and why you are calling Hindus fanatics. Before the spread of Islam people in India used to live in harmony, their used to be no religious atrocities, and the economy used to prosper. But the moment Islam arrived the foreign rulers just forcefully wanted to convert the whole hindu clan into Muslims is this what Allah said? They raped Indian women and wanted to show their mighty power. Did the quran said to destroy temples and kill innocent people. Just because of muslims India lost its control over major territories like pakistan , half of afghanistan, and tajakistan. After we uninterestdly gave pakistan to muslims , again you guys wanted the whole kashmir back to muslims. Hindus and the muslims also know that the kashmir belonged to a hindu maharaja king. And after you guys did all of the atrocities to hinuds you expect us to compromise to what you guys have done to us no! I really get pissed with you guys. Also in every hindus heart there is a rage of fire, if they see any muslims why ? just ask yourself.