.41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt

Alan Fud
Member
Posts: 36
(7/15/02 4:13:59 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All .41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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I've had my eye on a Taurus Tracker for a while now. As time has gone by, Taurus has been coming out with more & more models of the Tracker in various calibers ( .22's, .357's, even .45ACP's).

I decided that I'm not going to buy a Tracker in a caliber that I already own because that would be hard to justify. That leaves me with two choices -- a Tracker in .41 Magnum and a Tracker in .45 (long) Colt.

The gun would be used mainly as a field gun against alligators. While I would prefer the .45 (long) Colt, I don't reload and wonder if I can get factory ammo in .45 (long) Colt that would be as effective as factory ammo in .41 Magnum.

Not being a smartass here, genuinely don't know, and would like to know, the answer. Anybody know for sure why it's called the Long Colt?

Alan Fud
Member
Posts: 37
(7/15/02 9:32:36 am)
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I'm not an expert on this and maybe somebody more knowledgeable will chime in to provide a better explaination but I believe that it was never called a ".45 long Colt" but merely a ".45 Colt". Therefore, Colt never made a ".45 Short Colt".

Some people refer to it as the ".45 long Colt" ( which is why I placed the 'long' inside of parens) so as not to confuse it with another, shorter .45 but I'm not really sure which one or why. But to answer your question, there is no ".45 short Colt" and the official name of this one is the ".45 Colt"!

When referring to "Colt .45s", the "long" is in there to differentiate it from the "shorter" Colt .45.......45 ACP.

nighthawksh
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 119
(7/18/02 10:42:54 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: .41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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true,,but also remember, Colt did make a 32 short and long and a 38 short and long,,makes a person wonder why no 45 short??

Stan H ,, nighthawk

"Those willing to give up freedom in exchange for security will soon discover they have neither"

MPinkston55
Member
Posts: 2
(8/13/02 12:57:20 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: .41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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QUOTE: "Some people refer to it as the ".45 long Colt" ( which is why I placed the 'long' inside of parens) so as not to confuse it with another, shorter .45 but I'm not really sure which one or why."

I believe that the other, shorter .45 was the .45 scholfield<sp>.

thumbuster
Member
Posts: 16
(8/14/02 8:04:58 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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No question here Alan, go with the 41mag. I have had one for many years in a Ruger Blackhawk and can attest to it's flattening ability on critters. If you do reload for this caliber there are many powders that will work well but I have found H110 to be about the best. Saying that I have to admit to playing with some lilgun for 2 years and the results have been topping anything achieved with less pressure. All in all it is a great round.

anchored
Member
Posts: 48
(8/15/02 8:37:49 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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I thought I'd heard of a .45 short colt, so I looked around and found this page, which has a picture of what it says is the .45 Schofield, .45 short colt and .45 long colt - three different cartridges.

One of the other bits of likely-sounding lore I was told was that factory .45 LC ammo nowadays is pretty inconsistently accurate, because there's too much room in the cartridge for modern smokeless powder - it shifts around so much it's never in the same place with respect to the primer. Old blackpowder was bulkier, so it filled the space and stayed where you put it. I tried a few handloads with a bit of cotton behind the bullet like a medicine bottle to hold the powder in place, with indifferent results - I didn't have the equipment to see what this did to pressures, but the cases didn't look any worse off.

Edited to add:
On the other hand, I found another page that says this:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The .45 LC (Long Colt) cartridge is very common in cowboy action shooting in North America. Amazingly there was never a .45 Short Colt. The proper name for the .45 LC is actually .45 Colt. The "Long Colt" name was adopted to avoid confusion with the .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge which is also commonly referred to as the .45 Colt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a dreamer of dreams and a travelling man, I have chalked up many a mile; read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, and I've learned much from both of their styles.
-J. Buffett
{Auction45}{Famous Flying Yen}

According to COTW...."This was something of a bastardized cartridge, combining the length of the S&W Schofield revolver round with the rim of the Colt SAA round. Army ordnance drescribed at least one version of this cartridge offically as 'Revolver Ball Cartridge, Caliber 45'."

It was apparently designed to work in both the Schofield and SAA.

8mmSteyr
Member
Posts: 14
(11/17/02 2:47:53 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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I've always called it the .45 Long Colt and everybody knew what I meant, and I knew what they meant when they said it. The purists be damned. Language should simplify things, not raise unnecessary questions. The converation moves along smoother when you don't have to backtrack and redefine.
"Leave the gun,...take the cannoli."

jbbooks
Member
Posts: 23
(11/25/02 10:10:29 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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Man, you're missing a bet if you don't reload. It adds a new dimension to shooting that you won't appreciate until you try it. That .45 Colt will do anything the .44 mag will and then some if you handload. A 300 gr. handloaded .45 will get the attention of anything you care to use it on. But if you insist on not reloading then the .41 will be a better choice. JMHO.

Shootist3006
Member
Posts: 9
(12/2/02 2:12:17 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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Without addressing the long and the short of it, go with th .41 It is a great cartridge and capable of far more than the wimpy commercial loads available. I load a 270 gr fpgc to about 1550 fps and it is potent medicine!

Semper Fi

1badassmagnum
Member
Posts: 9
(12/17/02 4:36:39 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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I would go with the 41 magnum also.it has a good velocity and punch,and is rather rare to boot.the 41's I have shot are also pretty cheap to handload,if you chose to do so later.

nfmMike
Member
Posts: 1
(12/30/02 4:13:17 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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"The .45 Long Colt was never an official designation by the Colt Company. Forty-five caliber loads came in many sizes and calibers, and there was a .45 with a casing about 7/8's of an inch long that preceded the Long Colt, which measures about 1 1/8" in case length. The longer Colt cartridge held more powder, was therefore more powerful, and when a cowpoke rode into town and asked for a box of Colt shells, if the mercantile tried to sell him the shorts ones, he'd say, "NO, no, the long Colts, pardner." And the name stuck. "

45shooter
Member
Posts: 2
(1/5/03 2:28:39 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
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According to the 02' SGN Treasury Edition the short and long designations came into play in 1875 when the US adopted the S&W #3 revolver.
The original 45 Colt had a 1.28" case legnth & OAL of 1.60". The new 45 caliber S&W round had a case legnth of 1.10" & OAL of 1.43".
The S&W would work in the Colt model P (Colt SAA) but the Colt cartridge would not chamber in the S&W.
The Military decided to only produce the S&W loading to make the supply guys happy.

Anyway, for use against gators I'd pick the .41, for use against bad guys just the sight of a .45 barrel should put some fear into em'.

if you are interested in 45colt there are some standard pressure heavy 45 colt items advertised by buffalo bore that you may look at that have about 1000fps on their 200 and 255 grain bullets.

Also I am not familiar with the taurus tracker, but if it can handle the 45+p loads buffalo bore (i have not looked at other companies but I am certain they have the same) offers loads with muzzle energy higher than 1100 foot pounds that they advertise for big game up to 1000 pounds.

From looking at Ammo. prices you will pay dearly for any new factory .45 longcolt Ammo. Because very few are buying it. Most like myself years ago cast their own bullets and reloaded their own. I also owned a SW Mod.29 .44 Mag. and reloaded for it. If you are really wanting the .41 thats what I would recommend over the .45 longcolt.

Alan Fud
Member
Posts: 36
(7/15/02 4:13:59 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All .41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've had my eye on a Taurus Tracker for a while now. As time has gone by, Taurus has been coming out with more & more models of the Tracker in various calibers ( .22's, .357's, even .45ACP's).

I decided that I'm not going to buy a Tracker in a caliber that I already own because that would be hard to justify. That leaves me with two choices -- a Tracker in .41 Magnum and a Tracker in .45 (long) Colt.

The gun would be used mainly as a field gun against alligators. While I would prefer the .45 (long) Colt, I don't reload and wonder if I can get factory ammo in .45 (long) Colt that would be as effective as factory ammo in .41 Magnum.

Share what you know & learn what you don't -- Alan Fud

actually it is to distinguish it between the 45 colt and the 45 schofield which is shorter, but it was never called long colt just 45 colt
blackhawkkid223

Not being a smartass here, genuinely don't know, and would like to know, the answer. Anybody know for sure why it's called the Long Colt?

Alan Fud
Member
Posts: 37
(7/15/02 9:32:36 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: .41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not an expert on this and maybe somebody more knowledgeable will chime in to provide a better explaination but I believe that it was never called a ".45 long Colt" but merely a ".45 Colt". Therefore, Colt never made a ".45 Short Colt".

Some people refer to it as the ".45 long Colt" ( which is why I placed the 'long' inside of parens) so as not to confuse it with another, shorter .45 but I'm not really sure which one or why. But to answer your question, there is no ".45 short Colt" and the official name of this one is the ".45 Colt"!

When referring to "Colt .45s", the "long" is in there to differentiate it from the "shorter" Colt .45.......45 ACP.

nighthawksh
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 119
(7/18/02 10:42:54 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: .41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
true,,but also remember, Colt did make a 32 short and long and a 38 short and long,,makes a person wonder why no 45 short??

Stan H ,, nighthawk

"Those willing to give up freedom in exchange for security will soon discover they have neither"

MPinkston55
Member
Posts: 2
(8/13/02 12:57:20 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: .41 Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: "Some people refer to it as the ".45 long Colt" ( which is why I placed the 'long' inside of parens) so as not to confuse it with another, shorter .45 but I'm not really sure which one or why."

I believe that the other, shorter .45 was the .45 scholfield<sp>.

thumbuster
Member
Posts: 16
(8/14/02 8:04:58 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No question here Alan, go with the 41mag. I have had one for many years in a Ruger Blackhawk and can attest to it's flattening ability on critters. If you do reload for this caliber there are many powders that will work well but I have found H110 to be about the best. Saying that I have to admit to playing with some lilgun for 2 years and the results have been topping anything achieved with less pressure. All in all it is a great round.

anchored
Member
Posts: 48
(8/15/02 8:37:49 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought I'd heard of a .45 short colt, so I looked around and found this page, which has a picture of what it says is the .45 Schofield, .45 short colt and .45 long colt - three different cartridges.

One of the other bits of likely-sounding lore I was told was that factory .45 LC ammo nowadays is pretty inconsistently accurate, because there's too much room in the cartridge for modern smokeless powder - it shifts around so much it's never in the same place with respect to the primer. Old blackpowder was bulkier, so it filled the space and stayed where you put it. I tried a few handloads with a bit of cotton behind the bullet like a medicine bottle to hold the powder in place, with indifferent results - I didn't have the equipment to see what this did to pressures, but the cases didn't look any worse off.

Edited to add:
On the other hand, I found another page that says this:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The .45 LC (Long Colt) cartridge is very common in cowboy action shooting in North America. Amazingly there was never a .45 Short Colt. The proper name for the .45 LC is actually .45 Colt. The "Long Colt" name was adopted to avoid confusion with the .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge which is also commonly referred to as the .45 Colt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a dreamer of dreams and a travelling man, I have chalked up many a mile; read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, and I've learned much from both of their styles.
-J. Buffett
{Auction45}{Famous Flying Yen}

According to COTW...."This was something of a bastardized cartridge, combining the length of the S&W Schofield revolver round with the rim of the Colt SAA round. Army ordnance drescribed at least one version of this cartridge offically as 'Revolver Ball Cartridge, Caliber 45'."

It was apparently designed to work in both the Schofield and SAA.

8mmSteyr
Member
Posts: 14
(11/17/02 2:47:53 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've always called it the .45 Long Colt and everybody knew what I meant, and I knew what they meant when they said it. The purists be damned. Language should simplify things, not raise unnecessary questions. The converation moves along smoother when you don't have to backtrack and redefine.
"Leave the gun,...take the cannoli."

jbbooks
Member
Posts: 23
(11/25/02 10:10:29 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man, you're missing a bet if you don't reload. It adds a new dimension to shooting that you won't appreciate until you try it. That .45 Colt will do anything the .44 mag will and then some if you handload. A 300 gr. handloaded .45 will get the attention of anything you care to use it on. But if you insist on not reloading then the .41 will be a better choice. JMHO.

Shootist3006
Member
Posts: 9
(12/2/02 2:12:17 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without addressing the long and the short of it, go with th .41 It is a great cartridge and capable of far more than the wimpy commercial loads available. I load a 270 gr fpgc to about 1550 fps and it is potent medicine!

Semper Fi

1badassmagnum
Member
Posts: 9
(12/17/02 4:36:39 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would go with the 41 magnum also.it has a good velocity and punch,and is rather rare to boot.the 41's I have shot are also pretty cheap to handload,if you chose to do so later.

nfmMike
Member
Posts: 1
(12/30/02 4:13:17 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The .45 Long Colt was never an official designation by the Colt Company. Forty-five caliber loads came in many sizes and calibers, and there was a .45 with a casing about 7/8's of an inch long that preceded the Long Colt, which measures about 1 1/8" in case length. The longer Colt cartridge held more powder, was therefore more powerful, and when a cowpoke rode into town and asked for a box of Colt shells, if the mercantile tried to sell him the shorts ones, he'd say, "NO, no, the long Colts, pardner." And the name stuck. "

45shooter
Member
Posts: 2
(1/5/03 2:28:39 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Re:.41Magnun VS. .45 (long) Colt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the 02' SGN Treasury Edition the short and long designations came into play in 1875 when the US adopted the S&W #3 revolver.
The original 45 Colt had a 1.28" case legnth & OAL of 1.60". The new 45 caliber S&W round had a case legnth of 1.10" & OAL of 1.43".
The S&W would work in the Colt model P (Colt SAA) but the Colt cartridge would not chamber in the S&W.
The Military decided to only produce the S&W loading to make the supply guys happy.

Anyway, for use against gators I'd pick the .41, for use against bad guys just the sight of a .45 barrel should put some fear into em'.

Was checking the rags today and found that Taurus is making a 5-shot dual purpose revolver. Don't know when they started making it; but, it chambers .45 Colt and .410. Don't know the full run on it; but, that .410 can through a curve for uses other than ole' gators.

I'd go with the .45 Colt. I have some 200 gr Corbon at 1100 fps that are not light "cowboy" loads. I think PMC also makes a pretty hot (hunting) load, of course for revolvers that can handle the pressure. I always see Colt .45 ammo for sale, more often than .41. Besides my S&W mod 25, I shoot a SRH .454 but almost always use the .45 ammo. It's had to imagine that a gator would not live in fear of a standard .45 load, let alone one pumped up a bit. The prices I see are less for .45 than .41 too.

Re read the post from Skinnypig8.
He speaks the truth. In a weapon of adequate strength, the extra case capacity, and bore diameter, make the .45 Colt a round substantially more powerful than the .44 Mag, IF YOU LOAD FOR THE WEAPON.
Generally speaking, commercial ammo is loaded to pressure levels safe in the weakest arms chambered in the caliber.
A careful handloader can eclipse factory ammo, in a strong arm, easily; stuff that would wreck a Colt SAA shoots well thru my Winchester Trapper, in .45 Colt, with energy enough to ruin the day for 600 pound hogs; prolly, that would stop a 'gator?

I reload for both and I think that is the only econimical way to shoot either round. The .41mag is a great round and factory loads are quite potent, but not at all cheap. You can find heavy .45 Colt factory ammo but once again it will not be cheap. I have a Taurus model 415, .41mag and am very happy with it now after a trip to the factory gunsmiths. Cor-Bon makes some 250gr at about 1350fps that I do like. One thing you should be aware of, the Taurus has a cylinder that is shorter than Ruger or S&W guns, so some of the heavy rounds may be too long for the Cylinder. Jim.

Yes, this is an oft ressurected thread.
And for good reason. Revolver Cartridges have the potential for far more serious work, in strong arms. The .45 Colt was a cartridge built for fragile revolvers( 1873 colt), when black powder was the rule; today, we have much better marterials, and much stronger guns; to compare the Colt SAA, to the Ruger Redhawk, is ludicrous, like compraring a dime store padlock, to a bank vault!
That being said, a shooter needs to handload, to get the most out of his weapons
The guys in Brackettville, Tx, speak of my 1894 Win Trapper, as Thor's Hammer, on hogs; ammo for it has wrecked two revolvers, thankfully, not mine; I shoot a 300 gr bullet, at close to 1400 fps, out of it, to the dissatisfaction of hogs, everywhere, with almost 'instant' results.
Elmer Keith said it all, when I was but a pup; bring enough gun, and use enough bullet!
I worship the .45-70, and the .40 Sharps bottlleneck, and own several rifles, single shots, in these calibers.

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