Israel preemptively attacked Egypt, Jordan and Syria while their armies were assembling in preparation for a coordinated attack with the goal of
literaly destroying the state of Israel.

Most contemporary military scholars believe Israel would have been overrun in a day had they elected to let the Arabs land the first blow.

Had it been an act of unprovoked aggression against peace time militaries ( as some of the historical revisionists posting in this thread would have
you believe), Israeli would have had a much harder time of it because the Arab armies would have been dispersed.

The only reason Israel was so successful is because the Arab armies were mobilized in forward positions, an inconvenient fact that the Arab apologists
always neglect when trying to spin the conversation.

If we had a President that was half the man Bibi was, the U.S.A. might be able to get their act together..I love the way the truth is ignored and
Israel gets blamed.

when 3 Israeli teenagers went missing in the West Bank Netanyahu said he would bring those responsible to justice....Here is the Palestinians
response: Understand the Palestinians are ruled by Fatah i.e. the Palestinian Authority. The chairman of the PA is Mahmoud Abbas. Abbas has been
very harshly criticized by the other PA members for his willingness to work with Israel. However he is being called on to resign....

Here is how the PA responded to the kidnappings:

Fatah critics shouted at the PA chairman that he was endangering their movement. Shfa quoted one of the unidentified committee members as
demanding that Abbas resign.

“Because of your failed policies we have BECOME traitors in the eyes of
the PEOPLE,” Shfa quoted the member as telling Abbas. “You have to rectify
your path, otherwise resign and let us put the cause back on its right
track.”
The sources identified leading critics of Abbas as former PA security

Now when a Palestinian teenager went missing and was found murdered, Netanyahu vowed to bring the Israeli's responsible for the this heinous act to
justice.....he privately condemned the murder of a child and then did so publicly...Again, what did the Palestinians do? Repeat "KIDNAPPING IS THE
ONLY LANGUAGE UNDERSTOOD BY ISRAEL, THUS IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO FREE OUR PRISONERS!!!! Oh yeah, Right On!! killing innocent CHILDREN!

I AM SORRY but if you cannot see the absolute twisted way these people and i am referring to the PA think then there is nothing that can be done for
you!!

Pax

Israel became a STATE in 1948!!! That means it is their country NO ONE elses!!! By virtue of LAW which every country in the world knows but most do
not respect!! so give me a break about the Israeli's being the aggressors!!

If the Arab world wants to stop losing land to Israel they should stop picking fights with Israel.

Is the young state of Israel guilty of very aggressively protecting their very existence - at any cost? Yes. Will I judge them for that? No way.
The Palestinians have a bigger bone to pick with the other Arab nations that treats them like dogs.

Egypt, Jordan, Syrian, Lebanon (in so much as it gets run over by it's neighbours to get to Israel) need check their egos at the door, accept that
Israel exists - has a right to exist - and stop attacking them directly and via proxies.

To get into the long and horrible list of who did what to whom and why is getting the region nowhere. A lot of people have died in the Levant since
the mandate. The world is not going back to the situation pre-Lawrence of Arabia so the neighboring states need to just drop it.

Are you serious? The arabs and the rest of the muslim world are hardly the most rational, fun-loving people in the world, but don't even try to tell
us that you think israel is a poor little picked on country that just needs a little encouragement.

The simple fact is that if israel didn't exist none of this would be an issue. The whole place and any supporters it inexplicably has seem to be
completely oblivious to the notion that of course the muslims would be averse to a jewish state in the middle of all of their islamic
states.

Let's all just hold hands and agree that it was a huge, huge, huge failed experiment - it quite clearly is.

Israel preemptively attacked Egypt, Jordan and Syria while their armies were assembling in preparation for a coordinated attack with the goal of
literaly destroying the state of Israel.

The FACT is Israel attacked first. The STORY of "why?" can obviously get a little murky when you're talking about competing intelligence agencies.

Most contemporary military scholars believe Israel would have been overrun in a day had they elected to let the Arabs land the first
blow.

And the smoking gun might come in the form of a mushroom cloud. I know. It is the same routine before and/or after a military occupation or
annexation which was the case in the 6 day war.

The only reason Israel was so successful is because the Arab armies were mobilized in forward positions, an inconvenient fact that the Arab
apologists always neglect when trying to spin the conversation.

I think you should give a little credit to the F-16s, M16s and satellite recon. No?

Are you serious? The arabs and the rest of the muslim world are hardly the most rational, fun-loving people in the world, but don't even try to tell
us that you think israel is a poor little picked on country that just needs a little encouragement.

The simple fact is that if israel didn't exist none of this would be an issue. The whole place and any supporters it inexplicably has seem to be
completely oblivious to the notion that of course the muslims would be averse to a jewish state in the middle of all of their islamic
states.

Let's all just hold hands and agree that it was a huge, huge, huge failed experiment - it quite clearly is.

There are no good guys. There is no black-and-white, only grey when it comes to that region.

Simply put, Israel is in a fight for it's life with it's neighbors. When you are fighting for your life, there is no such thing as "fighting
dirty".

Israel has to do whatever it can to survive in a region hellbent on their destruction.

As I am sure you are no doubt aware you aren't the first person to suggest "The simple fact that if Israel didn't exist", the practical and
inescapable truth is that it DOES exist. Any solution has to deal with that reality.

If we had a President that was half the man Bibi was, the U.S.A. might be able to get their act together..I love the way the truth is ignored and
Israel gets blamed.

If the US had half a man for President they wouldn't be pushed around and intellectually numbed by Israel

when 3 Israeli teenagers went missing in the West Bank Netanyahu said he would bring those responsible to justice....Here is the Palestinians
response:

No that is a political party's response. Not the Palestinians that get murdered by the hundreds by Israel. That is like saying Stephen Harper's
support of Israel reflects my own views. Good thing the the millions of Islamist that are here know that. They are really quite friendly.

Understand the Palestinians are ruled by Fatah

Yeah well, they live in the desert. Look how insane and murderous Israel has become just in the last 60 years or so. Give them another 60 and they
might be eating Palestinian hearts as some sort of "defense" ritual.

“Kidnapping is the only language understood by Israel, thus it is the
only way to free our prisoners that Israel refused to release,” Rajoub, long
considered close to Israel, said.

How much scientific proof do the Palestinians need to make Israel understand that this sort of occupation and annexation will cause people to react in
a way and do things that they would never do had they been able to live in peace. You know, the same reason that Israel uses to shamelessly murder
countless Palestinians. Israel straight up JACKED Palestine's sole right to defense and used it against them. Just like they straight up JACKED
footage of Israels terror on Gaza and the west bank and used it against them on ABC news

Lets not forget they support HAMAS!!

Your right! They were democratically elected. I like that excitement.

Now when a Palestinian teenager went missing and was found murdered, Netanyahu vowed to bring the Israeli's responsible for the this heinous
act to justice.....he privately condemned the murder of a child and then did so publicly...Again, what did the Palestinians do? Repeat "KIDNAPPING
IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE UNDERSTOOD BY ISRAEL, THUS IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO FREE OUR PRISONERS!!!! Oh yeah, Right On!! killing innocent
CHILDREN!

First of all, I wouldn't put it past Israel to kill a few of their own to push the bigger agenda. America does it all them time, after all. Second,
that quote said "KIDNAPPING" emphasis yours, not mine. He never said Murder. Kidnapping to trade for prisoners might not be a bad strategy in a
time of war. This is a war you know regardless of how it is defined in western media. I don't think at any point the Palestinians said "Ok you can
have it" and then changed their mind. There has only been ceasefires during a steady period of war while negotiations bought more time for Israel to
antagonize the Palestinians.

I AM SORRY but if you cannot see the absolute twisted way these people and i am referring to the PA think then there is nothing that can be
done for you!!

That is rich? If you cannot understand why the Palestinians hate Israel so mush they would value the extremes that you define them as today... forget
it.

Israel became a STATE in 1948!!! That means it is their country NO ONE elses!!! By virtue of LAW which every country in the world knows but most do
not respect!! so give me a break about the Israeli's being the aggressors!!

And military annexation became illegal internationally around that time too. Tell me, if you know. How many times larger has Israel grown in land
mass without reparation to it's original occupants? 1000? 2000? Roughly?...

I would like to add this map for the illustration of ghettoizing Palestinians.

Vancouver's Translink (regional transit authority) pasted that map you posted on a lot of bus stops around the GVRD area and HOLY COW, did the
Israeli lobby get all butt hurt over it. They cannot stand it when people get access to information outside their control. It is sooo pathetic how
they van't face the truth or do anything moral about the subject. Just ban and subdue is their only tactic.

What business is it of Vancouver transit to engage in a propaganda war? Canadian tax money intended for transit should not be spent on propaganda. Not
backing Palestine or Israel here, but whoever made that decision should be fired.

and yes, I would say the same thing if it was pro-Israel propaganda.

They didn't claim anything. They just posted the pictures of how the maps changed over a period of time.

Truth is the truth. Make of it what you will. Are you saying the maps are inaccurate?

And since toy mention it, what business is it of the Canadian government to weigh in on the subject on behalf of Canadians.

Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm embarrassed for you.

Nothing in your rebuttal touched on anything in my post, at all. It's as if someone asked " What is 2+2 ?" and you responded "Kumquat."

I am not only embarrassed for you but, sincerely worried about your mental state.

OK, granted it looks bad when you enumerate every bad thing they did on paper since 1948 and leave all of the good out. This can be done for America,
hell...even Canada. That said, Israel is a little country sitting in a big melting pot of hate and contempt for it, because it is the ally of the
US...can`t blame them for pre-meditated attacks, its called self-preservation. I see you didn`t list the details of those attacks such as military
intelligence. Maybe the other countries were going to attack first and Israel made sure to beat them to the punch. This happens every day on the Gaza
strip with the Palestinians. Although, I don`t take either side on that one. Its only the innocents on both sides that are dying there
really...that's all bad. As for this list of `bad history`....what country doesn`t have a list like this, that is notorious on the world scale or the
war arena ?

The title of the thread and the style in which the OP is presented seems to be trying make the case that all this is a secret? Or is somehow being
suppressed? The formation of the modern state of Israel must be one on the most written about subjects in current history and geopolitics. There
are no secrets there. There are too many opposing sides involved that are quick to point out anything the other side may have omitted from their
version of events.

While the history of the young country is particularly tragic, show me a country borne of Teddy-bears and Hershey's Kisses. Carving out a national
identity and homeland is nasty business.

I am not sure what the point is frankly, Israel isn't going anywhere. So let's deal with that reality and move on from there.

originally posted by: Illuminawty
OK, granted it looks bad when you enumerate every bad thing they did on paper since 1948 and leave all of the good out.

What good has israel done for the world?

If you really cared to find out it only takes a minute on Google... There's actually quite a bit more to Israel than most people know.

In terms of inventions Israelis have given the world the Uzi, the mobile phone (partly), camera chips for phones, SMS messaging and the first
anti-virus software; Israel has the highest percentage of home computers per capita and the third most educated workforce on earth, with 12 per cent
holding advanced degrees. The country also has more engineers and scientists per capita than any other country around the world, and has more
companies quoted on the high-tech NASDAQ stock exchange than any other country outside the United States, more than all of Europe, India, and China
combined.
Israelis are also at the forefront of medical research into heart transplants, strokes and Hepatitis C. Incredibly, some Israelis are even at work on
a space mission, which could make that tiny state of seven million people the third country to land a probe on the Moon. Jews on the Moon? Conspiracy
theorists won’t know where to start.
In the last ten years Israeli scientists have won five Noble prizes in the sciences, a tally bettered by only four other nations, while per capita
Israel produces more economists than any other country.
Israel also publishes a huge number of Scientific and Technical Journal Articles, some 16,470 in 2005, more than the entire Arab world and Iran
combined. And the Jewish state produces an astonishing number of inventors. Last year in the United States Israelis registered 1917 patents, just
below Italy (58 million people) and the Netherlands (15 million) and way ahead of its neighbours Saudi Arabia (58) Turkey (45) Egypt (20) Kuwait (14)
UAE (9) Iran (8) Lebanon (5) Jordan (1) and Syria (0). Israel itself grants 2500 patents a year, putting it in the top 20 of all countries and again
more than all its neighbours combined. Israel is number one in the world for medical device patents per capita and number four for biotechnology
patents per capita. And its biotechnology exports are now worth $6 billion a year.

And of all this, how much of it was done by those who hold dual citizenship or in conjunction with or with the investment of other nations and would
not exist if Israel did not? Still not worth all the death in the Middle East for that same blasted "economy."

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