I’ll reserve judgment until I actually hear this latest offering from THE TRUST…

But the title does give me an uneasy feeling as to it’s content and quality. When is the zft going to release something again with some meat on it? Like Buffalo? Or FZ/OZ? Or was that it for the really excellent releases, and now they’re just scraping the bottom of the barrel? I really hope not, Barry!

After 40 years of fandom and perhaps blind support, I have to confess to bewilderment as to the current “marketing” strategy of new releases. The total [almost] lack of information, other than a screen shot, title and a slice of “cryptic” and basically uninformative blurb – does not lend me to buy the release or to even consider future releases if this “style” continues.

Perhaps, this is the most significant release of the decade – who knows. Not based on the pitiful information provided.

I declined to purchase “ONE SHOT DEAL” because of this and of course the awful timing [after] for The Torture Never Stops DVD. Why would I want to double my P & P?

Come on ZFT – please get your act together. If Zappa’s are not in control of the marketing – sack whoever is.

After 40 years of fandom and perhaps blind support, I have to confess to bewilderment as to the current “marketing” strategy of new releases. The total [almost] lack of information, other than a screen shot, title and a slice of “cryptic” and basically uninformative blurb – does not lend me to buy the release or to even consider future releases if this “style” continues.

Perhaps, this is the most significant release of the decade – who knows. Not based on the pitiful information provided.

I declined to purchase “ONE SHOT DEAL” because of this and of course the awful timing [after] for The Torture Never Stops DVD. Why would I want to double my P & P?

Come on ZFT – please get your act together. If Zappa’s are not in control of the marketing – sack whoever is.

Quoth GZ:
Rare 1975 thrillingness.
Be very afraid of being Danish. Or not.
Rant & Roll.

=
“redonculus” or “chillax”

The shoddy marketing and lack of information only further the desire to boycott this disgusting Businesswoman and her wares. Buy it and you fund and validate the litigation and abuse she has given to fansites and tribute bans. It’s no use pleeing or arguing with this woman, she’s an arrogant nutcase. If you want her behaviour to stop, hit her where she feels it, her bank account.
Download this sucker and force her out of business. Let her sell the rights and the tapes to Ryko, Rhino and Warner Brothers.

I would love to hear that (in its entirety) but I dont think that this is that… er, there doesnt seem to be an orchestra, though it’s hard to tell. Frank does seem in good form, does it seem like it’s in the studio or does anyone hear anything in the acoustics to think it’s live?

And aren’t there a few other bits of Bongo Fury tour business that haven’t seen the official light of day? Maybe it’s *that* bit of 1975.

(The same?) bits of the Royce Hall 1975 have come out of One Shot Deal and QuAudiophiliac, and FZ:OZ was essentially the other 1975 touring band carrying on into 1976 – yes?

So, my money’s on an hour of Beefheart sax solos… or another recording of Rollo.

But I can only agree with everyone above – speculation is fine, but what sort of way of selling something is it to not tell the marketplace anything at all about what you’re selling? No one works like this…

Kill Ugly Radio’s gig list says: “Feb-75 – sources: grCopenhagen Denmark Tivoli Gardens questionable”.
Might be questionable, but at least its from Denmark. :-). It’s in the middle of recording Greggary. Okay, we still do not know whether its a whole show or not. But since it’s a “Joe’s” thing, it might be something special or unheard, so if the above guess is correct, its a REALLY special addition to the oeuvre.

Screw this, screw Goatman. One Shot Deal was a haphazard release and I bet this is more of the same.

But this type of condescending non-advertising or whatever it is it just insulting to us the fans.

I wish there were more releases like One Shot. I am puzzled why fans are so hostile to it.
As for the new one, it’s time one comes to grips with the fact that GZ likes to offer these things as surprises. No one is forcing you to rush out and buy it. Wait a week or two and there will be so much information about it on the ‘net that your head will explode. At that point you can make the decision to buy or not.

Peter – I like your point, in a way, though I do see it differently: this is not christmas time to have some “surprises”; this is business, this is about love for music, this is aboput giving money for something we love. So this is unfair to joke around about it this way.
I am curious as well, of course, but makes me angry that the ZFT refuses to think of me (and the others) as an adult, and refuses to give ANY useful information. This way I hesitate to give my money for this, and I just keep on waiting. Hoping for the best.

Oh, I don’t know. Going back to my earliest days of record collecting, I would typically gamble on records that I knew absolutely nothing about. That was part of the fun. Regardless, after suffering through the US Presidential campaign, this comes as a desperately needed salve.

In the early days, I bought every new FZ release once it appeared in the store without hearing anything (due to the almost total lack of airplay on the radio). I trusted Frank to consistently put out something worthwhile, and was never disappointed. Unfortunately, I can’t say the same for all the ZFT releases. It may well be an amazing release, but I need more info before I open my wallet.

I can’t think of another site I’ve seen that is so hostile towards its reason for existance. Another release of unheard Zappa music and KUR is celebrating the occasion with indignation. This forum has to shape up if it would like to attract more Zappa fans. I ordered 3 copies of Menage so at least two of the KUR members’ personal traumas above will go unnoticed.

Fuck you Carlin, you are a blind fool slave to capitalism. Try to sell someone an object in a brown paper bag, “Oh, ma’am, it’s real good, never mind what it is.” Fuck off. GZ is an idiot who can’t form a sentence.

September 28th, 2008 at 2:26 am » Quote
I can’t think of another site I’ve seen that is so hostile towards its reason for existance. Another release of unheard Zappa music and KUR is celebrating the occasion with indignation. This forum has to shape up if it would like to attract more Zappa fans. I ordered 3 copies of Menage so at least two of the KUR members’ personal traumas above will go unnoticed.

Gee thanks for procuring me a copy, I appreciate your generosity. We should exchange emails so we can go about working out mailing addresses and shipping costs because I dont want you to be too hard up. I’m also boycotting SUVs, if you’re interested…

Fuck you Carlin, you are a blind fool slave to capitalism. Try to sell someone an object in a brown paper bag, “Oh, ma’am, it’s real good, never mind what it is.” Fuck off. GZ is an idiot who can’t form a sentence.

I can’t think of another site I’ve seen that is so hostile towards its reason for existance. Another release of unheard Zappa music and KUR is celebrating the occasion with indignation. This forum has to shape up if it would like to attract more Zappa fans.

it’s not that we’re hostile to Zappa or even the thought of more Zappa releases, we’re hostile to the estate.

It’s a popular bit of fantasy (propaganda by the estate) that ZFT is synonymous with FZ. They merely claim to represent Frank’s intent, no one can actually represent the ‘intent’ of a dead man (aside from his dying wishes, which were, incidently, for Gail to get out of the business). Massive ‘assumptions/pretenses’ are committed artistically, legally and in the editing room whenever the estate takes the initiative on these releases.

I can see how one can get confused, Carlin, but even though the Zappa estate dispenses the tapes (and the litigation), they are not to be mistaken for the content on the tapes (and the composer).

Same as no coverband can claim to be the ‘real deal’ and should tour around with the pomp of being FZ’s official rock group (losing the “cover band” disclaimer).

But in the hope of sounding positive, I do look forward to hearing this recording, it does sound like a great performance and Frank does seem in good form. In fact, I have enjoyed (on some level) all of the post-humous ZFT releases and I have successfully avoided that feeling of being cheated, scammed out of my money or having supporting the paranoid control tactics of a bitter husk of a human being by downloading her wares.

So Carlin, if you’re serious about buying two extra copies, I’m serious about wanting one of them!

Poor guy… I wish you could tell everyone how YOU personally fight capitalism – other than “not buying a cd of unreleased music of a genius.”
Go fuck yourself with your political ideas. FZ was a musician. Do you really think MUSIC is the best?

It’s not that KUR contributors are necessarily hostile to this new CD, simply bemused by the ‘release no details’ marketing strategy. They’re probably all very excited by the prospect of this being something really good – after all it’s a lovely picture of Frank…

But it is perfectly conceivable that there might be people who have no interest in certain aspects of Zappa’s music but who love other areas – say those who are so-so about rock music but who’d give a limb for some orchestral pomp… and without a tracklist or recording dates people like that could end up wasting money on something they don’t want. And if the news is to be believed money is becoming tight enough to not mention…

Personally I’ll be buying a copy, while all the time really waiting for and wanting Dance Me This and other new/unheard music, rather than more versions of tunes we all already know.

Though hopefully, since it seems to be that end of ’75, there’ll be a nice long Any Downers on here…

It’s about value… I can’t afford to buy every album I would like to so I have to choose. Previous ‘Joe’s whatever’ releases have been patchy at best so I won’t be risking my money just yet until I have some idea if this release is any better. Meanwhile, there is other stuff to buy.

The ZFT practice of mystery marketing is typically contradictory – the ‘Joe’s…’ series is apparently aimed at FZ fans rather than a new market but the ZFT approach just seems to alienate it’s target audience by assuming we will buy any old twaddle they bother to put out.

Just in case no one has noticed, capitalism failed a week or three ago and had to be bailed out by socialism. They are trying to keep it quiet. Even Ben “sure can dance for a white boy” Watson, has not mentioned it, that is because he is a CIA c….er, frunt.

So Carlin, if you’re serious about buying two extra copies, I’m serious about wanting one of them!

Of course I’m serious, I always buy one or two extra copies. I give them away as gifts to friends, most often to those with teenagers. I don’t think you qualify as you already like FZ (presumably).
I’m sorry that you feel hostility towards the Zappa Estate, that must be tiresome.

Carlin: my problem with this release is that I am being withheld any information about it by the ZFT.

GZ’s way of “marketing” this is, to quote Bananas, “a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.” I mean, right now over at the zappa forums, she has people guessing at who’s part of the band — saying things like “that’s 4 out of 6!”

Really. Really now. Are we so dumb all over that we’re ready willing and able to grab at carrots being dangled in front of us? Are we, as fans, not entitled to know what we are buying, before we buy it?

Whenever FZ released a new album, he made damn sure we knew what it was about, and which musical direction it was taking. He went on talk shows, radio broadcasts and printed interviews to let the public know what he was up to.

Rare 1975 thrillingness.
Be very afraid of being Danish. Or not.
Rant & Roll.

This is nothing less than an insult to the intelligence of the many loyal fans out there. It may even be perceived as a sign of insecurity (“if I give them all the information, they may not cough up the money”).

Actually, we’re not totally without information. (1) We know its from 1975. (2) We know it has Carolina Hardcore Ecstasy. (3) We know the band includes FZ, Andre Lewis, Terry Bozzio, Roy Estrada (plus two more). (4) We know it includes live performance (either in rehearsal or in front of an audience). (5) We think it has something to do with Denmark.

Actually, we’re not totally without information. (1) We know its from 1975. (2) We know it has Carolina Hardcore Ecstasy. (3) We know the band includes FZ, Andre Lewis, Terry Bozzio, Roy Estrada (plus two more). (4) We know it includes live performance (either in rehearsal or in front of an audience). (5) We think it has something to do with Denmark.

That’s more than enough for me to buy.

Folks: it’s time to get over the C & D.

Brett: you’re bamboozled by love. From point (1) to point (5), who did you obtain this information from? Let me take a guess: internet rumours? As a business, do you think ZFT is doing a good job at preserving FZ’s legacy? Honestly now…

Actually, we’re not totally without information. (1) We know its from 1975. (2) We know it has Carolina Hardcore Ecstasy. (3) We know the band includes FZ, Andre Lewis, Terry Bozzio, Roy Estrada (plus two more). (4) We know it includes live performance (either in rehearsal or in front of an audience). (5) We think it has something to do with Denmark.

That’s more than enough for me to buy.

Folks: it’s time to get over the C & D.

Brett: you’re bamboozled by love. From point (1) to point (5), who did you obtain this information from? Let me take a guess: internet rumours? As a business, do you think ZFT is doing a good job at preserving FZ’s legacy? Honestly now…

Fact (1) From the info on the Zappa.com website.

Fact (2) From the clip given on the Zappa.com website.

Fact (3) From Gail’s own words on the forum at Zappa.com.

Fact (4) From my own ears.

Fact (5) See fact (1).

I’m not the defender of the ZFT. It’s just a bit strange that you guys are so negative on a release that might turn out to be great. If you want more info before you buy, wait until someone else has received the CD and get the info from them. There’s no rush to pre-order. For me, the clip given on Zappa.com is enough.

Back in the ol’ days, one knew NOTHING about a new release until it layed nicely displayed in a shop window next town, you had to take a bus to get there, find the only available copy sunburst and wrinkled and bought it anyway, because you were so HOT.

Today, you’re told in advance when the thing is released and when you’d have to press the button (October 1), if you like, and if you don’t, don’t. From that day on, and thru the magic of the internet, you have any information available you can dream of, you visit forums, read reviews and decide whether you like what you read or not.

3 days to keep your mouths shut, a hard time, it seems…
And boycotting someone who conducts a research on master tapes, let them restored and spiffed up and puts them out to the public is strange social behaviour, from my point of view. And moaning about her ‘idiosyncratics’ in adverticement style over and over again, I mean – these are peanuts, aren’t they? Hope you don’t distress people in your everyday life for reasons as marginal as that.

Are Peter and Carlin the only cool people left in the Zappa fanbase?
Seems they have a lot of fun with a new FZ disc announced. WHAT A SHAME!

Hm, I don’t think that anyone is “against” anybody here, or “uncool” or whatever, we are just talking here – someone thinks this, someone that. I for one am grateful for those who will buy this album early, because the info (hopefully) comes from them.
Good to have ALL of us here.

I for one, bought every Zappa record in my life unheard. I mean, judging ‘Civilization Phaze III’ from hearing one or two tracks at the counter? C’mon..! Or even EIHN? If p&p to Europe is what upsets you, wait few weeks and order it together with the next release. Mind you, it’s not your teen-age hit record without which you’re losing status at your crazy friends’ next dope-sniffing event. Relax. Just be patient.

‘Civilization’ was delayed from ’88 to ’94 back then. Meanwhile, the Iron Curtain collapsed and made it possible for us poor folks in the EAST to buy it UPON RELEASE, not bad, eh?

I agree with braxtophiliac, even if it remembers of some old man swooning about ye olden days. Sometimes this complaintorium here feels like Staettler/Waldorf from the Muppet Show. Only thing here is that my “One Shot Deal” and “Torture”-DVD never arrived at my post box. So I ordered it again, big deal, before I waste my time tracking down some culprit way down the line.

Really, people, look around. There seems to be the tendency in such forums to go mostly complaining. If you are speaking German, look into the ORF (http://www.orf.at/) forums some day. Literally each news item leads to unbearable ranting and hate in the discussion forum. I can imagine these slackers grown into their chairs waiting for some news to pour their regrettable venom all over the place. Believe me, I’m not into hugging and dancing like mindless hippies, but this tireless complaining is senseless and ugly.
Zappa’s music was and still is one of the few really entertaining audio since 35 years (beside e.g. Alban Bergs “7 Frühe Lieder” I iTuned yesterday) and I always grabbed the newest Zappa release regardless the contents. I had to have it! And if you remember what “release policy” Frank had himself, you would have torn off strands of hair then. There were announced albums postponed for unfathomable time. There was a time, where Frank feared not to be able to release for years … “I still can tour around”, he said. There was “Läther” and “The Collected History …” and whatever, and we all were left in the dark with just mail and no Web.
Ok, now I am sounding like old men, maybe because I am, at 56. Kind regards to Birdman for rethinking his positions. May his prudence be an example for others.
Have fun, greetings

Don’t worry, Propellerkuh.
I think this way of communicating is just their “strategy”, and what we do here, including complain, exactly what they want: people talking about this. If this is a good strategy or not, well, depends on who’s looking at it…

I for one, don’t miss the good old days at all. Back in the day, i remember having bought “The Love Beach” by E,L & P. What an amount of horse manure! you couldn’t believe it was done by the same guys that made “Tarkus” and “Trilogy”. A forum like this, or anyone else for that matter, would have helped beforehand… but there wasn’t any.
Do you really prefer that? To blindly buy whatever is on the market just because it comes from the popstar of your choice? (yeah, i know, we are talking here about a genius, blah, blah blah) I prefer this a million times…

Also, i have to say, if i’d have ordered “One Shot Deal” and “Torture”-DVD, and they’d never have arrived at my mail box, i’d have gotten a duodenal ulcer, eyes would be blood injected and foam would ooze from my mouth. You just ordered them again, leaving the culprit, or the culprette unpunished! You are just too good for this world! You should be on hugging and dancing! Come on, i know you wanna!

I agree that some information about this release would be good, I cannot understand why they don’t do that.

As for the other ‘Joe’s’ in this series, at first I wasn’t too impressed with some of the content, but after a time they do grow on you and I find myself listening to the tracks which I initially wasn’t too keen on over some others.

Whatever this latest offering contains, I know I will be buying it as the completist part inside of me will beat me up otherwise and there is nothing worse than having a fight with yourself:-)

Only thing here is that my “One Shot Deal” and “Torture”-DVD never arrived at my post box. So I ordered it again, big deal, before I waste my time tracking down some culprit way down the line.

if only all marks had rubes like you…
Not to criticize your blind faith in the quality of anything with the Imperial on it but come on, you buy product, you dont get the product so you buy more of it? Sounds like you’re a bit of a soft touch and I wouldnt go around bragging about that if I were you.

Dear Sharleena
No, I’m Not From Nowhere, not at all, I am veryveryvery happy to have the Web the way it is and don’t miss the old shitty days at all. But I admit it being a comfortable pejudice that I might do so talking the way I do. BTW, a few years ago I sent my very own recordings of all my FZ concerts for maybe better digitizing to Dennis Teunissen and they vanished into thin air from his doorsteps. There wasn’t one thing to do about that – after I didn’t insure the package – but say farewell and good riddance.
Maybe that’s soft, I call it healthy for me. I avoid the elbows of other people and try not to push mine at them. I thinks that’s the way we should all behave or we will never get the possible best from each other.
I do that since I was a boy and can say that my life is very fulfilling, interesting and troubleless. My kids are grown up and we never had the usual parents/puberty trouble I see in my class with 26 young design students.
Sorry to disappoint most of you, but sorry again, that’s not my fault but due to the fact that times and media promote troubles more than solutions. There’s no glamour in contentment, just the “o” and the “m”.
I find it disconcerting that some of you call for a shrink for me – and not even in own words – or prefer to have ulcers and other bodily symptoms. But don’t you worry, nobody is prying my purse from my soft fingers, nobody is abusing me. But I admit to have noticed two deep furrows of fear on my till yesterday markless forehead since Paul Sempschi called me a softie.
Mama! Troubles!

Dear Sharleena
No, I’m Not From Nowhere, not at all, I am veryveryvery happy to have the Web the way it is and don’t miss the old shitty days at all. But I admit it being a comfortable pejudice that I might do so talking the way I do.
Sorry to disappoint most of you, but sorry again, that’s not my fault but due to the fact that times and media promote troubles more than solutions. There’s no glamour in contentment, just the “o” and the “m”.

Mama! Troubles!

See? You worry too much!
Nothing, absolutely nothing of what people say here is going to change a little bit the commercial strategy the family has chosen. It’s not that they are gonna say “look what those ugly, depressing people tell about us, we are not releasing anything else, they don’t deserve it!”
No. They are gonna continue doing whatever the fuck they want, and rightly so. And i think the customers have also the right to say how they feel! In this case the discussion is so stupid that it’s not even about the content of the album. It’s just about the fact that they are hoping for people to preorder on something, without giving any information..! How different would it be if they’d simply add a playlist. Then everybody who choose to buy, would order without further discussion and that’s it.
This way however: they announce a new release, fans come here in the hope to find some information, everybody is speculating, people can say how contemptuous and depressing we are, etc.
It’s all turning so awfully predictable that i’m yawning beforehand…
As you say P., “times and media promote troubles more than solutions”.
They could have avoided all this by posting some information; but do they want to?

“Daily Dose of Imagery” is not my blog, i wish it was. Just a place i visit periodically, and a very good one!

GZ’s way of “marketing” this is, to quote Bananas, “a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.” I mean, right now over at the zappa forums, she has people guessing at who’s part of the band — saying things like “that’s 4 out of 6!”

Really. Really now. Are we so dumb all over that we’re ready willing and able to grab at carrots being dangled in front of us? Are we, as fans, not entitled to know what we are buying, before we buy it?

Whenever FZ released a new album, he made damn sure we knew what it was about, and which musical direction it was taking. He went on talk shows, radio broadcasts and printed interviews to let the public know what he was up to.

Rare 1975 thrillingness.
Be very afraid of being Danish. Or not.
Rant & Roll.

This is nothing less than an insult to the intelligence of the many loyal fans out there.

I couldn’t agree more, Barry. Just when you think that the marketing strategy over at THE TRUST couldn’t get any more wacky, GZ pulls something like this. Let me ask, how is this furthering the legacy of Frank? Does this behavior make you want to rush out and order this CD? Does Gail and Dweezil and the rest of the ZFT somehow get off on treating FZ’s loyal fanbase this way? And why? Beats me, really. I’m left scratching my head time and time again at these Hollywood tricksters.

“Next in the corsaga comes Joe’s Menage, recorded in concert at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, VA on 1 November 1975. It features FZ (guitar and vocals), Norma Jean Bell (alto saxophone and vocals), Napoleon Murphy Brock (tenor saxophone and vocals), Andre Lewis (keyboards and vocals), Roy Estrada (bass and vocals), Terry Bozzio (drums). Track list: Honey, Don’t You Want a Man Like Me?/The Illinois Enema Bandit/Carolina Hard-core Ecstasy/Lonely Little Girl/Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance/What’s The Ugliest Part of Your Body?/Chunga’s Revenge/Zoot Allures.”

I’m sorry that you feel hostility towards the Zappa Estate, that must be tiresome.

Excuse me, but there is a big difference between hostility and criticism. Unlike the Zappa.com forums (which are routinely censored whenever the criticism hits a little too close to home for their liking), KUR has always been a free and open forum of ideas, dialogue, and yes, criticism. If you choose to be a mindless consumer, buying whatever carrot the Zappa Estate dangles in front of you, that’s your choice. I, for one, hold them up to a higher standard. The standard set by Frank, himself. If they simply met the standard that he set during his lifetime, his “so-called” legacy would be assured.

Excuse me, but there is a big difference between hostility and criticism. Unlike the Zappa.com forums (which are routinely censored whenever the criticism hits a little too close to home for their liking), KUR has always been a free and open forum of ideas, dialogue, and yes, criticism.

and that is what makes gail’s claim of fascism in the goldmine article so repugnant.

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You are reading Joe’s Menage which was posted on Friday, September 26th, 2008 at 8:07 pm by Barry's Imaginary Publisher. This entry is filed under Frank Zappa, In The News, Music.
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