Nope, that's basically it. I don't drink by the way. Maybe a glass of wine with dinner, or a little more on occasions, but I'm not a drinker. What I don't do is cater my opinions to match anyone's unless of course their signing my paychecks. This is a blog, people come here to express their opinions, right? Now, I've always agreed with a lot of what you have to say, but, I'm my own man. Nobody's going to create a moniker and shine me on, and I'm going to kiss his ass, unless it's a pretty young lass of course. Now, start signing my paychecks, and I'll agree with any God Damn thing you got to say. Short of that, you could be the Queen of England for all I care, and I'll treat you with respect, as I treat all people, but I don't kiss no rings. I had to work my ass off all my life here in the States. Granted I acknowledge I've taken some liberties here, but everyone does. It gets boring after awhile. It's all been said.

Well don't just sit there ‘Zorbas’. Do something you Greeks are good at!

Get back to Greece, organise a colonels coup like in the old days. A Real Greek Junta, not some lardarse Brussels junta. Renege on all debts with those French and German banks.
Get thrown out of "EU". Eureka, Greeks regain sovereignty!
Destroy the French and German banking industry - and probably the "EU" with it!

Now you're rocking:)

And you can indulge some of those other fun old hobbies: intern anyone without trial that yu don't like the look of, abuse goats unmolested.
Sky's the limit! Just think. Better than sitting there with TV getting fat on diet coke risking cardiac.

Go on - be a hero - be a Real Spartan instead of stuffer of mouldy aubergines and detonator of noxious smells. They’d put up a Monument for you in Athens and Europeans would all have to pay tribute.

Just like in that old ditty. The Miighty Zorb:
“Come all within, come all without!
You’ll not see nothing like the Mighty Zorb!
Cos when Zorb the Yanki gets here everyone has to salute him!

Come all within, come all without …. You’ll not see …. a- hahahahaa … ”

That's not it Birt. Take a step back and take a better look at the big picture. Greece is yet another New World Order nation building project. The seat of power is not in Brussels. Those paper pushers couldn't find their behinds with both hands.

But, I do agree with you here: Greece should have defaulted on the debt, and rebooted. Internal deflation is way too untested and painful a so called remedy to keep these debts viable. A lot more will need to be done to make the debt sustainable.

As for Democracy and the democratic process? It doesn't exist. The banks rule everywhere, and that's only sustainable if it creates jobs. The difference is, Greece is a dirt poor nation, and Germany is a reluctant partner when it comes to nation building.

German's responsibility ends with Germany. Who can blame them. This united we stand thing has it's limits for "Europeans", but nobody's allowed out of the pool - that little ditty about The New World Order that I keep harping about. Nation states do not rule. Geo-strategical considerations trump all.

Now, about the diet, you want a good diet? Take in 4,700 mg of potassium everyday from whole food sources, and get plenty of sunshine. Your body needs the vitamin D. The ancients were correct. Apollo is indeed a most powerful God.

Remember that story about the Greek man with lung cancer who moved to Greece, and it miraculously went away. It wasn't the wine. It was the UVB. The same stuff they put in too small doses in hospital lights.

You see Birt, the system has fallen apart. Nobody anywhere does their job properly anymore, except perhaps Germany. The human body needs sun, but who the hell's going to wheel all those patients outdoors everyday?

Everything worth knowing in this life is a secret. Nothing is what it appears to be, and as for Heroes, give me a working man's Hero any day, just a guy who does his duty.

I leave it to Hollywood to cater to the fools amongst us. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Bread and Circus for the masses...laughs

"Go on - be a hero - be a Real Spartan instead of stuffer of mouldy aubergines and detonator of noxious smells. They’d put up a Monument for you in Athens and Europeans would all have to pay tribute."

Not me, more like they'll beat the crap out of me and throw me in a detention center for not being a real Greek. Misery loves company, and jealously is a primary emotion. Doing good are you? Here's another! How you feeling now? Should of minded your own business..laughs

As for the Military Junta, seems some genius Bishop of ours felt our real place was with the Soviets. We're both Orthodox Christians you see. But the fact that the Communists weren't allowed to practice our shared faith in public wasn't an issue for the Good Bishop. Enter the West to make Greece take her Cod Liver Oil.

Now, once again, they're bringing Greece from the 19th century, kicking and screaming into the 21st, a Political Junta if you will. Some feet are going to get stepped on badly, German too.

Germany can delay, but she is not allowed to turn a deaf ear. The New World Order is feeding Germans too you know, better then Americans even, because the Germans wont put up with the sort of crap we put up with from our politicians here.

I agree with the German economic model for Germany, not for Europe however. Well trained workers should not be disposable, unless you're a CEO with the golden parachute that is, and you plan on scramming with the loot, but that's the American corporate model...laughs

Lets face facts, the Northerners protected themselves, and most of the rest of Europe is basically screwed. The alternative was everyone keeps their old currency and the elites assets take a bath, but the poor have work, and inflation isn't an issue, becasue they're spending it as fast as they can make it.

What would the Drachma be worth today if it had been allowed to free fall for all that time?

Would have worked for me. I could have afforded to visit, get some sun, and eat some goat, a lot more often. Then I would of been the Hero that spends his disposable income on the Greek economy, but the Greeks would have still tried to rob me. It's what we do.

I told you, even our Socialists are the best darn Capitalist you'll ever meet. The goal of Capitalism is amassing capital by any "legal" means necessary.

It's not legal you say. Buy a politician and make it legal, but make sure you buy him legally. Campaign funds, more business trips, Golf outings, and Steak Dinners then a man can eat...laughs

So we agree on one thing "the euro is buggered and the EU should never have been allowed to come into being, but is now being kept on very sadistic life support by the banksters who invested too much in the euro".

A nightmare.

"Then I would of been the Hero that spends his disposable income on the Greek economy, but the Greeks would have still tried to rob me. It's what we do."
In my limited acquaintance with Greek circles, I am sorry to have to agree that they loved dumping on each other. They reminded me of the Irish on whom a famous Irish playwrite dumped "the Irish are a fair people. They never speak well of each other:)"
Weird lot, no wonder their famous beer smells of fart.

I lied. You guys have become like my dysfunctional surrogate Greek family, but I can't blog as much as I use to. I was over doing it, and not putting enough effort into my comments. I mean it guys, get plenty of sun. You know, I use to think I better stay here in the US when I grow old, to be close to good hospitals, but they stink. I've decided I'm going to Greece when my time comes, but I have to find a way to avoid those damn Greeks...laughs

Spot on about the Greeks Birt. We love the place, but hate each other. What is it that Ellin said to me? True belief is something that no true Greek has the luxury to believe in. We got to sit on the fence and see which way the things gonna break first, and then we throw our hat in the ring. To do otherwise for such a poor people would have been suicidal.

Actually it's not the first time that the Mussolini's years (those BEFORE WWII and the persecution of the People from Israel) have been praised.
Sometimes even the worse leaders have done some good things when they were ruling. That's what he meant to say ... besides snatching last Mr. Fini's voters.

A friend of mine sent me a reference to a site listing all the good things made by Mussolini or better said made by italiens under fascism (http://www.studiorighetti.it/operefascismo.pdf ). Of course things should be checked and discussed by it is worthwhile to read that report. This could explain what Berlusconi said and what many italians think.

My, my Theodor von und zu Guttenberg and his eurofascists have been busy:

"EU to set up euro-election 'troll patrol' to tackle Eurosceptic surge
The European Parliament is to spend almost £2 million on press monitoring and trawling Eurosceptic debates on the internet for "trolls" with whom to debate in the run-up and during euro-elections next year amid fears that hostility to the EU is growing."

emmafinney Feb 3rd, 04:37 :
"Over 2500 EU civil servants get paid more than Merkel.
The EU's unelected president gets paid more than Obama."
Charel in reply to emmafinney :
"The lavish salaries paid to EU employees are easily explained by the fact that they are highly qualified."

They are about to unleash a horde of these bots. Yes, I have come across the genius Charel.

Still we have had our fun here with the trickle of bots infesting these pages, but the heavy duty paid morons we are anticipating will be a feast. I think they are already testing a couple on Waterfield's blog and if they are anything like "Steve Dobbs" it looks like the "EU" is about to shoot itself in the foot big time as usual ... but at OUR expense, as always.

Why was Junoir's reply to "the lavish salaries paid to EU employees are easily explained by the fact that they are highly qualified" with reference to the vastly over-paid, under-qualified, never-elected nonentity Ashton removed?

Oh, you are back again. Your comment was tempoararily invisible. Beware of hair-triggered bot gestapo at large.

I expect this 20 millionsworth Bot Hit Squad will confine itself to bombarding the moderators with requests to suppress anything they disagree with, because to judge from their posting input they would risk turning the "EU" into an even bigger black joke than it is already.

We can look forward to entire threads suddenly "collapsing".

Guttenberg whose "expertise" is behind this bot recruitment is the perfect fit, toting a bespactacled face straight out of a Hollywood casting for Goebbels's henchmen.
A failed, dishonest politician out for revenge on the blogosphere that cost him his job: perfect for Brussels.

Nah Birt. I don't drink, and I'm on a stinking diet that's kicking my butt. You hit 50, you have to start being careful. It sneaks up on you, and wacks you over the head. Don't know if you're there yet, but suffice it to say, we guys are always the last to know.

@LOMGMAN333-You are telling that there was no reason of transferring"loyalty".Politcs is no made of loyalty if this is not summed to interests.We had secret pacts?The inventor of such kind of pacts was Bismarck.He had secret pactes with any country included Italy,during his service in the GErman-Prussian kingdom.And all the territories you mention were inhabitathed by italians,with small exceptions.You arguments are backing the enemies of our country still operating in the so called "european institutions".Now i know which are your true colours:you belong to some organization i know, together with BRIGHT TONY,BANANA REPUBLIC,MARIE CLAUDE,and other guys watching the Tour Eiffel from their windows.

Longman is correct in his history , Italians are national traitors and not regional traitors.
Loyalty for their region and not their nation.

It started when the first Italian government gave away Garibaldi's birthplace of Nice to France - Garibaldi , Italy's national hero, lost his birthplace while he was still alive.

Since Italy only have regional loyalty , then Italy should adapt a swiss system and start a confederation of italian states INSTEAD of this centralised system which they have always had and will be their destruction.

LOL, An example of the "loyalty" shown by Italian governments to its heroes.

Unification is the propaganda issued to the people, the real reason of the 3 wars of "independence" was to rid the Italian lands of foreign powers which began in 1494 when the papal states asked France to enter.

There was already 40 years of peace after the treaty of Lido in 1453 ..........trust the Vatican to stick their finger where it was not needed and start 55 years of wars called the Italian wars

In the public mind and in the world mind, specially among the Germans Italians are considered a Nation of traitors. During the WWII, after Italy's turnabout, the Allies coined the verb "to badogliate" as a byword (synonim) of "to betray". Do as you like.

Of course Germans are traitors too. They made a pact with Stalin's Russia of not aggression and suddenly, without being provoked, attacked Russia. That is also traison of the worst kind....and they had to pay the bill at the end. Deservedly!The difference between Italy's traison and Germany's traison lies in the fact that Italy was forced to betray because the chances of a victory were zero and they only wanted to avoid much mor damages for their country, while Germany attacked Russia without reason. Stalin was extremely amazed at Hitler's turnabout; he even wanted Hitler's friedship and was ready to fight with him against the capitalistic countries. Those who warned him of the impending attack were put to prison and accused of 'disinformacia'.

For the history enthusiasts commenting on this thread:
`
Just imagine if Italy had remained neutral during both WWI and WWII.
`
It would probably have become a quite wealthy society, making money off of all sides (like the Swiss?).
`
Such a counterfactual history for WWI is not inconceivable. Otherwise, with WWII Mussolini was as dumb as prior leaders who got Italy involved in WWI.

You are missing the point. That is exactly why the French and British secret services sponsored Benito.
He was a vain and corruptible editor of the premiere left-wing Neutralist newspaper - opposed to entry in the war. They bought him off and paid him to found "Il Popolo d'Italia" - an interventionist rag.

The British and French feared Italy's entry into the war on the side of the Triple Alliance. But even more they feared an Italy that would stay out of the war entirely and benefit from selling to both sides as the other major powers of Europe destroyed themselves.

Which is exactly what we should have done and exactly what the Liberal leadership of Italy decided to do, during the first year of war.

Italy, before WW1, was part of the triple alliance with Germany, therefore it should have assisted Germany and Austria

"By this time, a powerful bloc had been formed in central Europe. Germany was now guaranteed against Russia by Austria, and against France by Italy. Bismarck had successfully kept the friendship of both Russia, Austria and Italy and kept France completely isolated. He was indeed a skilful diplomat who was able to handle the European powers for Germany's advantage. Yet Italy's commitment to the Triple Alliance was doubtful because the arch-enemy of Italian unity had been Austria which still kept Italia Irredenta; on the other hand, France was the friend of Italian unity. Once Italy's anger over Tunis cooled off, she would prefer an alliance with France to that with Austria"

Mussolini may have done something good during his reign (every dictator, even the worst of all, has done something good), but for Italy from the first World War, let alone, to the second world war, was a dreadful accident. Something which is burning most is Italy's loss of face, something which not even the Germans with their "holocaust", suffered. The Germans will go down in history as nasty, mean, bad, but not as cowards. Italians will be smarting over Mussolini's misdeeds for centuries. The sorry figure - la figuraccia.

Why did Mussolini ally with Germany? That was the error. He had no a serious army he could frighten Great Britain and France. Italy's army was a rickety, a derelict army to laugh your head off. Only a loony person could think with such an army to impress somebody. Even in his war in Ethiopia his army put up a poor show. The Ethiopians, although armed with bows and arrows and old weapons, put Mussolini's army through the mill.....and this operetta dictator dared wage war against the world three years later. It was curious that Hitler supported him an d Italy albeit his generals had warned him that Italy's army was a risible and farcical army. That's funny!

Well if you have the country get wrecked like that, due directly to his actions, then its kind of hard to overlook.
`
Sidestepping 5 years of utter, unmitigated disaster out of 23 years of rule doesn't seem very convincing.
`
Especially since he blew considerable resources on the military before 1940.

Yes, years in which that idiot Mussolini threw away every bit of prestige and strategic position Italy had gained in the First World War - at great cost (600,000+ dead and a million wounded).

The rest of the world calls it the "Anschluss". Have you any idea what Italy lost at the time of the Anschluss? Austria was an Italian satellite state - as was Hungary and Slovakia and even Yugoslavia. Our entire dominant position in Central Europe was thrown away and handed to Berlin.

Hitler sent an immediate note of thanks to Mussolini. The net effect was as if Austria or Germany had won the First World War in Central Europe.
(Greetings from Trieste)

i cannot say you're wrong, but the analyse with hindsight is easier. But anyway i think that not liking him does't mean not being in agreement with what he brought and represented, like the national unity and valor.
Salutes from Tuscany.

Look at Italy's history from 1935 (Ethiopian war), 1937 (Pact of Steal (!), Racial laws, Albania's conquest), 1939(threatening gestures towards the former Allies), 1940 (declararation of war to the former Allies), 1941,1942,1943 (series of disasters in all battlefields), 1943,1944,1945 (Italy's changed into world's spittoon). Mussolini would have not been better. Never.

premising i have no intention to begin a never ending discussion about that, but just for answering:
Ethiopian war - and so? Italy conquests Ethiopia;
Pact of steal - Like our "allies" in ww1 before and germans then it has been shown that international arrangements can be tear up (treaty of London, neutrality of Be-Ne-Lux, not belligerence pact between Germany and Russia etc etc etc); however it was a reaction for the sanctions by the nations society;
Racial laws - wrong law considering many jews were patriots and even fascist
Albania's conquest - agan, and so? Italy gains another region
threatening gestures towards the former Allies(???) - you want make me laugh
1941,1942,1943 (series of disasters in all battlefields) - in majority but not all
The last is a consequence of before; everybody loosing is a spittoon.
there are not only things 100% good or 100% bad, but there also middle positions

I think Mussolini deserves considerable blame for 1943 to 1945. Those events directly stemmed from his decision to enter the war in 1940 and general mismanagement of the war effort subsequently.
`
There were a few disasters between 1940 and 1943.
`
And, he was head of the country when Sicily got invaded in 1943.
`
And he continued to head up (or figure head) the Salo Republic up to 1945. So he is responsible, and Italians should keep in mind how the country got wrecked as a result of stupid choices by this dictator, with armies crossing their country from 1943 to 1945.
`

@LONGMAN 333.I cannot frankly understand your true colours.Not for the first time you call the italians like you "traitors".You rant of"appealig offers" in 1915 that nothing else were if our territories inhabited by Italians since centuries,and refused by the austro ungarians.The attack to Serbia was a violation of the accords of TRIPICE ALLEANZA,speaking of defensive pact.So where in the hell is the treason?The allies offered our beloved territories,first of all TRENTO and TRIESTE,in change of our alliance,which thing was obviously the only one we needed.In that horrible war we lost 700000 MEN and a MILLION mutilated(twice than in WWII).What traitor would go on suffering such losses without giving up?We also were forced after 1917 to suffer the burden of the gerrman and austroungarian forces coming from the russian frontier.Without our commitment on that front,they would have hit the french frontier together with the other troops that had invaded France reaching the Marne no far from Paris.The London accords were violated by Woodrow Wilson with his refuse to respect them.And you call us "traitors"?

There was no reason for Italy suddenly to transfer its loyalty from one alliance to another. Italy, because of Serbia, could have avoided siding with with Austria and Germany remaining neutral but to side with the Triple Entente and wage war on its former allies was treason. The reason of the treason emerges clearly from the reading of the Treaty of London:
London Pact (Italian: Patto di Londra), or more correctly, the Treaty of London, 1915, was a secret pact between the Triple Entente and Italy, signed in London on 26 April 1915 by Great Britain, France, Russia, and the Kingdom of Italy.[1] Its intent was to gain the alliance of Italy against its former allies, including Germany. According to the pact, Italy was to leave the Triple Alliance and join Triple Entente, as already stated in a secret agreement signed in London, on 4–5 September 1914. Italy was to declare war against Germany and Austria-Hungary within a month (this happened against Austria-Hungary within a month, but not until 1916 against Germany). Assuming victory against Germany and its allies, the Triple Entente promised Italy the following territorial gains (see Italia irredenta) at the end of the war: Tyrol, partitioned in 1918, parts remaining Austrian referred to as Nordtirol and Osttirol, but part of one Federal State of Tirol Lands offered to Italy, Serbia and Montenegro by the Allies in 1915 1.Tyrol, up to the Alpine water divide at the Brenner Pass, which includes the modern-day Italian provinces of Trentino) and South Tyrol. 2.The entire Austrian Littoral, including the port of Trieste and the Cres-Lošinj (Cherso-Lussino) archipelago, but without the Hungarian port of Rijeka (Fiume). 3.Northern Dalmatia, including Zadar (Zara), Šibenik (Sebenico), and most of the Dalmatian islands, except Krk and Rab. 4.The Dodecanese Islands (held by Italy since 1912) 5.The port of Vlorë in Albania 6.A protectorate over Albania ("Italy should be entrusted with the task of representing the State of Albania in its relations with Foreign Powers"). 7.Parts of the German colonies in Asia and Africa[2] 8.In the event of the partition of Turkey, Italy "ought to obtain a just share of the Mediterranean region adjacent to the province of Adalia"[2] The pact was to be kept secret, but after the October Revolution in Russia, it was published in November 1917 by the Russian journal Izvestia.
Austria, in order to appease Italy was ready to give Italý: Trento, Trieste without striking a blow. The offer was to cheap.

nor the Germans were fighting on the Balkans front, but on the russian and franco-belgian fronts. In 1917, after the Brestlitovsk peace treaty with Russia, they could concentrate their forces on the western front
So Italians entering into the conflict didn't affect the happening of the war on the french front.

@ MC/HTF:
.
"So Italians entering into the conflict didn't affect the happening of the war on the french front."
.
-- True. As my high school European History teacher, the formidable Dr. C., used to quip: "The Italians always managed to end up on the winning side of wars without having won a single battle."
.
@ Milovan/Joe:
.
Before you provide us with a list of all the skirmishes in which Italy occassionally eeked out narrow victories in WW1 against a diminished Austrian army who was busy fighting the Russians at their rear border, let me assure you that Dr. C. was talking figuratively. But he had a point.
.
The only country whose army the Italian army ever managed to defeat without foreign help in WW1 and WW2 was -- Albania.

Actually Italy defeated the British in Somaliland in 1940 - without German help (and without the ability to re-supply its troops through the Suez Canal).

And Italy defeated Ethiopia, despite the distance, the dum-dum bullets and most of the world being against the peninsula/applying sanctions.

Italy also defeated the Ottoman Empire in Libya just before WWI (1911-1912).

Finally, we may not have been the strongest Great Power in 1914 (we were more or less the weakest of the Great Powers) - but by the end of the war we had out-lived Tsarist Russia, the German "Second Reich", the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Ottoman Empire.
Not bad all things considered - a pity that position as number 4 or 5 country in the world was thrown away by the Vatican's alliance with Mussolini.

Skirmishes against third-rate or vastly outnumbered enemy forces, my friend, skirmishes. Italians in uniform have always been at their absolute best at parades. In battle, not so much. But that's charming, in a way. And très à la mode, with everybody now being so über-pacifist these days. LOL

Sooooo??..... Fascism is unhealthily dependent on force... Liberalism is unhealthily dependent on cheating... Big deal!
..
Socialism is the opposite of Conservatism... Fascism is the opposite of Liberalism... (My thinking here derives from H.J.Eysenck... Sense and Nonsense in Psychology... One of the best books of the 20th Century IMO)
..
SOCIALISTS believe collective action is the answer to every problem... Well-adjusted individuals are just spin-offs from well-ordered societies... CONSERVATIVES believe <the individual is always the answer... Promote individualism and... bingo!... you get good societies... Such is the left/right political spectrum
..
On which scale, Fascism and Liberalism are rival centrist philosophies, happy with the complentary roles of individual and society... That's not their hang-up... but opposites on another scale...
..
FASCISTS believe in ends, and close their eyes to the means, the force needed to achieve their ends... the 'corporate' or organicfasces...(a bundle of sticks bound around an ax)... articulated by a 'team captain'... (fuhrerprinzip)... a land of heroes led by the noblest hero of them all
..
LIBERALS believe in means... free markets, free elections, and the rule of law... and close their eyes to the end chaos... pointless degradation... the suppression of virtue and promotion of vice... a divided society of haves and have-nots... a shyster elite lording over a defrauded populace
..
The Fascist problem... How to get where they want to go
The Liberal problem... WTF are they going?
..
One thing is clear... Fascism is not to blame for the mess we are in... We are not suffering from a surfeit of Fascism but an overdose of Liberalism... the corrective to which is the concept of an end
..
I always say... We should recognise the breadwinner and homemaker marriage, and crack down on working couples... a very middle-class end... I detest the feminised boys and neutered girls we are getting thanx to 'women's equality'... I want the best men to win the best women... I want one good job per family... And an outright ban on working couples each with govt jobs laughing at the rest of us... I want an honest society where decent men and women can realise worthwhile lives
..
And nobody is interested... Most of you are more turned on by your property values than your wives
..
No wonder 'Bear Lust' Tony upsets you so much

Sooooo??..... Fascism is unhealthily dependent on force... Liberalism is unhealthily dependent on cheating... Big deal!
..
Socialism is the opposite of Conservatism... Fascism is the opposite of Liberalism... (My thinking here derives from H.J.Eysenck... Sense and Nonsense in Psychology... One of the best books of the 20th Century IMO... Extraordinarily well-written)
..
SOCIALISTS believe collective action is the answer to every problem... Well-adjusted individuals are just spin-offs from well-ordered societies... CONSERVATIVES believe <the individual is always the answer... Promote individualism and... bingo!... you get good societies... Such is the left/right political spectrum
..
On which scale, Fascism and Liberalism are rival centrist philosophies, happy with the complentary roles of individual and society... That's not their hang-up... but opposites on another scale...
..
FASCISTS believe in ends, and close their eyes to the means, the force needed to achieve their ends... the 'corporate' state composed of social organisms each shaped like a fasces... (a bundle of sticks bound around an ax)... articulated by a 'team captain' (fuhrerprinzip)... a land of heroes led by the noblest hero of them all
..
LIBERALS believe in means... free markets, free elections, and the rule of law... and close their eyes to the end chaos... pointless degradation... the suppression of virtue and promotion of vice... a divided society of haves and have-nots... a shyster elite lording over a defrauded populace
..
The Fascist problem... How to get where they want to go
The Liberal problem... WTF are they going?
..
One thing is clear... Fascism is not to blame for the mess we are in... We are not suffering from a surfeit of Fascism but an overdose of Liberalism... the corrective to which is the concept of an end
..
I always say... We should recognise the breadwinner and homemaker marriage, and crack down on working couples... a very middle-class end... I detest the feminised boys and neutered girls we are getting thanx to 'women's equality'... I want the best men to win the best women... I want one good job per family... And an outright ban on working couples each with govt jobs laughing at the rest of us... I want an honest society where decent men and women can realise worthwhile lives
..
And nobody is interested... Most of you are more turned on by your property values than your wives
..
No wonder 'Bear-Lust' Tony upsets you so much

Silvio Berlusconi on Benito Mussolini,
Don’t blame Berlusconi; he is speaking what is in the heart of many Europeans, based on most Europe’s proud history, many leaders of that time praised Benito Mussolini for his achievements. Historians like James Burgwyn called the victory of Mussolini "a capital achievement" referring to the Abyssinian invasion in 1935. Recently, we even heard Italians are building memorial park for General Graziani. So much has been said of what Mussolini and his fascist regime did in Italy and in Europe and lots of people are still talking about his cruelty on Jewish people. But ….I wonder why no one is speaking about what he did in Africa, especially, in Ethiopia, his fascist army shot and killed 30,000 innocent Ethiopians in Addis Ababa in one day, then went on surrounded the nearby monastery killed thousands of priests and monks and came back to the city shot and killed the head of the Ethiopian Church in broad day light with direct order of Benito Mussolini, of course in collaboration with his top Generals. Germany took responsibility for Hitler’ Holocaust and compensated Jews for their loss and sufferings, why not Ethiopia?
In fact despite the plea of his Majesty King Haile Silase at the League of Nations, most European countries supported Italy to invade Ethiopia. Indeed in October 1935 Italy under Generals Rodolfo Graziani and Pietro Badoglio marched to Ethiopia fully equipped with their best available Roman killing machines and slaughtered Hundreds of Thousands people; they used WMD destroyed my country and openly annihilated my people by airplane and ground armaments. Mussolini did that because he got a green light from most Europe to go ahead and revenge his father’s disgraced defeat in 1896 at the Battle of Adwa by the Emperor Menelik II of Ethiopia; which was one of the proudest moments for Black Race around the world, boosting the morals of all resistance movement and freedom fighters. This was considered as the greatest shame in Europe and humiliating time to colonial powers. On their way to vengeance Emperor Menelik’s Abyssinia, General Rodolfo Graziani and General Pietro Badoglio, massacred hundreds of thousands brave men, women and children, the whole Italy celebrated with Mussolini and there was no condemnation from their European cousins.
My mother was born on October 28, 1935 in a cave while hiding from fascist Italy bombardment, she survived the massacres. Benito Mussolini’s army had killed my grandfather and five of my granduncles; my father became an orphaned boy, in a couple of years at age 12 he picked up his murdered father’s gun and joined the resistance, in 5 years of incursion and bitter war with despicably cruel and powerful Italian fascist army my dad became a fierce warrior teenage fighting the enemy until they are out of his country, then after liberation worked and lived with many different life experience, happily married to my mom and had 12 beautiful children; today at age 86 still alive telling his story with vivid memory tear on his eyes.
Hearing my dad talking about those years hurts, I may forgive the Italians with heart felt remorse and appropriate compensation, but who can forget that historical tragedy? I will never nor will my children and grandchildren will ever forget what happened to my people, to my father and to my grandfather.

Ethiopia's aggression and war was Mussolini's start of his misfortunes. Perhaps his greatest mistake.In front of the world he appeared as an aggressor and provoked the Sanctions from the Society of the Nations. This isolation brought him towards Hitler a fellow he had dislaked deeply before (specially because of Austria's Dollfus who was Mussolini's friend and the Nazis had killed). Hitler's Germany was the only country which helped Mussolini during the Sanctions. Germany's influence increased fearfully and Mussolini was not more able to withdraw from this deadly embrace with all the consequences we all know. Ethiopia's aggression was his destiny. It was fatalerror for him and for Italy and errors have to be paid.

Looking to the History Social Security and Public health has been created under Mussolini during the fascist era and taken as reference, later on, by many Countries for what is today called "welfare state".
Taking improperly as reference the Roman Empire Mussolini created a basic "Italian" common feeling in a population that as of today is not still a "Nation", as commonly known, in way of the effect of the propaganda of the strongest communist party after WWII.
It seems really hard to read the History of Italy, a geographical entity trying to become a Nation, without the perspective, let me say intelligent and far from an interested political vision, of Mr. Berlusconi. You can hate him, love him or be indifferent but the reading of History he has done, taking correctly distance from the dark side of the fascism era, is simply true.
This cannot be read as fascism apology but a passionate reading of Italian History of the last century, perhaps not new as I can remember he told the same some years ago with the same amount of smoke, fog and "inspired" declaration trying to give to his words a completely different meaning. Finally: too clever? too candid? History will tell us.

Nobody ever mentions that Mussolini successfully opposed Hitler at a first attempt the latter made to annex Austria in 1934. Meanwhile all the European democracies where weighing on how to deal with Hitler without upsetting him. Mussolini felt quite lonely among all those moral preachers.

I would be interested to know what the Economist was writing then, I guess it can be good fun.

Just to make the point I think Mussolini made - later on - a pact with the devil.

Because that was an anomaly, when Mussolini had been in power for over a decade, while Hitler was in power for about a year.
`
Go look at Mussolini's record from 1940 onwards - a downward spiral in ineptness and cowardice.

Usually I agree with the Economist on Mr B, however in this case you are seeing the issue through the eyes of either, the tyrannical Jew Press or the jongoistic telescope of a homogenised colony who does not approve or understand anything unless it is similar to, or an exact copy of something that abides by US cultural, socio-economic morals. Mussolini is a sovereign Italian icon. You will not understand it unless you shift your paradigm from global bully to something else, something that understands that not all viewpoints are American and that the USA is not the centre of the earth. Sorry. This time you're wrong. Its neither a gaffe or a provocation. Its merely dialogue.

I hope you don't mind if I disagree with your post. I am Italian and I can assure you that Mussolini is by no way a sovereign Italian icon. He was a tyrant a man who enslaved the Italian people forced them to wage an unjust and unwanted war and made them accomplice of the worst crime in humans history. There is nothing in the history of Italy that link our glorious struggle to become a free nation to this criminal buffoon. You should be careful when writing about someone else history. Or you should get better informed. Maybe to read what you call Jew Press would be a good starting point.

Don't get insulted, but is your job devoted to spreading ignorance? In this case why don't you go to the next library and brush up on your deep ignorance? The Italians until 1940, as they thought that Germany was about to win the war, were eager to side Hitler at all costs because they also wanted to pinch the spoils (France was close to the defeat). Until 1940 most Italians loved their dictator deeply. But in the year 1943, as they saw that they had backed the wrong horse....changed horse as all 'decent' traitors do at the right moment. In the year 1915, at the time of the World War I, they played the same trick! This nation of traitors were at first allied with Germany and Austria (the Triplice), but after the Entente bought them with very appealing offer and presents, they 1915 changed alliance.

Well to treat an entire nation of "traitors" as you do in your post smack not only of ignorance but also of racism. Maybe is you who should buy some books. You could find some useful information in the case you wanted to take part to a civilized debate. For example the triplice was a defensive alliance and since was Austria and Germany that first started the war Italy was not legally obliged to go to war on their side.
Second point you seem to forget that in 1940 Italians had been ruled by Mussolini for almost 20 years, no opposition were allowed and available and an entire generation had been raised in Mussolini cult.
I suggest you read books from Hannah Arendt in order to understand how a totalitarian regime works.
By the way Italians bought back their honour through the blood of their struggle against the puppet regime Of Salo and their German masters. You should try not to criminalize an entire nation for the criminal action of his dictatorial government.

Fascism was another of those silly masterpieces in which the Italian left is world-champion. Do take in account who Mussolini was and his political origins. He was a socialist-massimalist. He was director of the socialist organ 'Avanti'. With D'Annunzio he advacted Italy's entry in the war against the former allies (Germany and Austria).After the war he founded the Fascist Party and all Italians enthusiastically followed this Pied Piper of Hamelin for 20 years and turned their backs on him only when his fortune was overwhelmed by the war events. Until 1940 and specially after Germany's military successes all Italians were Fascists and eager to come abreast of Hitler (look in you-tube Hitler's Italian visit 1938). The anti-Fascist Resistance began esitantly 1943 and the most pugnacious fighters were the Communists who intended changing the black dictatorship into a red one. A typical Italian turnabout. Ridiculous!

Il "consenso" was the distinguishing factor of Italian politics right up until, when the war was lost, an indecorous dash to get on to the winning side and pass for "anti-fascisiti della prima ora" (Anti fascists from the beginning) had to be made.
Later there was the out and out myth of the "guerra partigiana" (partisan war) which all serious historians (see in particular the most important, Denis Mack Smith)discount as being of little to no historical significance, (though important to those who lived it). This latter is the specific lie that Italy been living in for over sixty years (the longest "dopoguerra" in Europe) and it has cheapened everything in Italian society. Deep down, all Italians know this, but it is expedient to go along with the crowd. This is the kind of situation in which the Berlusconis do well, because they have the chutzpah to lie the same way, knowing that Italians, while not believing, will anyway go along with it rather than call the bluff (Non è vero ma ci credo!).

You know history is a complicate matter. It seems like you red something about Italian history but definitely not enough. Maybe you found somewhere a little book which summery Italian history. Otherwise I can't explain how you keep generalize about fascism ans the Italian people. Mussolini was a Socialist but in Italy socialists before WWI were influenced by Bakunin rather than by Marx. He was than rather an anarchist than a marxist. But what's the point with what he did when in power? He was an opportunist and of course his decision to wage war against France was dictated by the thought that Germany was going to win. He knew the country was not ready for war and just bet that it would be a short one ("I need few thousand dead to get to the peace table" it seems that he said). A lot of Italians followed him. A lot were already abroad, had already been fired or send to confinement a lot did not dare to speak or chosen to play wait and see. But again an entire generation of Italians had been educated in Mussolini schools and people lacked any independent information about what was going on. About Resistance too you are wrong. There were partisan brigades formed by communists, by actionist (members of the action party), by Catholics and liberals and also by former army officers and soldiers. Even if they were few they counted on the support of solidarity of a big chunk of the population. Please stop studying history on you tube. And don't use this free tribune to air your racist point of view against an entire people.

I have enjoyed reading several books of Dennis Mack Smith ( I consider him a great historian). Sadly I could never found any comment about the historical insignificance of the partisan war. Maybe it was not very significant from the allied military point of view. Maybe you could quoted your sources. You should not underestimate the meaning of this popular struggle against fascism. Maybe they were not hundred thousands but they were supported by a population that was heavily targeted by fascist reprisal for the sheltering of the partisans. You should also know about thousand of Italian soldiers that were captured after September 8/43 and sent to concentration camps in Germany. After a fascist puppet regime was created in the north part of Italy to this soldiers was offered to get out of hell and in exchange to fight against for Mussolini. Just few dozens accepted. The others preferred to remain in captivity rather than accept to fight for fascism again. And this too was a form of resistance.

I am sorry if I was not clear about who I was when writing. I was born in the UK but moved to Italy nearly 40 years ago (age 26) and took on nationality. I did not serve in the draft but was prepared to. I love Italy and am proud to be Italian.
The "partisan" brigades were certaibnly a very motley crew, but nowhere to be seen before 1944 (Mussolini came to power in the early 20s and is reported to have said that everything was going well until 1936).
There is a song the Italians like to sing called Bella Ciao which exalts the "Resistance" but recites (after 10 years of invasions by Germany and Italy) "I woke up one morning and found the invader!" Doh!
It overlooks the fact that the "invader" was the Allied force, soon to be called "liberators" and the German forces (soon to be called the invader) were called in by Italy to assist in its defence against them.
MacArthur who commanded the Allied forces in Italy stated that Italy was a strange country, with 40 million fascists in 1940 and 40 million aanti-fascists in 1945.
Believe one who is of an age to be able to be deal rationally with these issues (even using the Italian language of which my command is just about native speaker level). that the schools of Italy have peddled a viewpoint of the period that its is hard to support with concrete, independently collected facts. Europe itself sahres responsibiity for this too, because the search for Peace in Europe has been to the forefront (rightly so) but hiding from facts is demeaning.
PS.Dn't gets started on German atrocities (Fosse Ardeatine, Marzabotto etc.I because we will then get on to Italian atrocities in N. Africa, subject of a BBC documentary that was "covered up" in Italy.

I know the song. Maybe Italian schools have exaggerated the role of the resistance in Italy. Maybe, and from my point of view unfortunately, not enough on the contrary Berlusconi would never dare to do such a shameful comment. I would make clear that I agree and I am perfectly aware that we are rather cynical people when we have to choose how to pursue our interest. I was not aware about the statement of Mc Arthur, and there is something true in it. I am Italian, but spent last 13 years in France. Just to take an example there is a debate about the real implication of French people in their resistance war. I also agree that Italians committed war crimes and atrocities and not only in N Africa but also in Ethiopia, Slovenia, Croatia, and I could keep writing. Is a shame and one of the main shortcoming of the Italian Republic not to make his citizens aware of it. I wrote in another post that unfortunately anti fascism has become a tired rite celebrate just by politicians and not by normal people. Please understand that I am not a nationalist and in any case I would deny or justify the responsibility of our people for fascism. But you know every nation on this green earth is founded on a myth. Ours was Garibaldi first and after WWII the partisan war. Even with all his shortcoming I think it had to be the new staring point from which a new Italy had to be rebuild. My first reaction was to a post stating that Mussolini is a sovereign italian icon. He is not for a large chunk of italian population. I understand your point of view I just can't get how you can generalize it to an entire population. And why need to do so. I am the grand grand son of a working class railways employee who in 1922 preferred to got fired and struggle to feed his wife and five children rather than inscribe himself to the PNF.

You rapresent nobody.You have written a lot of nonsense about the partisans. Aside from a very tiny number of decent pertisans most of them were red bandits whose heroic deeds only consisted of making terrorist attacks and ambush unarmed German soldiers and then running away letting the innocent population exposed to German retaliation. These red partisans stood in Allies forces' path and didn't shorten Allies' campaign in Italy not even five minutes. Most of the 'heroic partisans' left their hideouts a few days later the Allies had reached the frontiers and all Nazi-fascist forces had surrendered. After their capitulation the 'heroic' partisans, whose number had increased in an exponential way, began atrocities towards prisoners or presumed political enemies (men, women and children). Judging by the old saying,"What you don't know can't hurt you", you are practically invulnerable. Something you have to know about your 'partisans': until 1940 they were all eager to join the Germans as they were marching victorious on Paris.

No, that is not true. The Italian Partisans received ammo and guns from the Allies.
Former US Presidential candidate Bob Dole lost the use of his arm while on joint operations with Italian Partisans near Bologna.

Of course, Berlusconi is nonsens but why he has popularity even out of Italy, because of some people tired by injustice, inequality, uncertanity for tomorrow, etc. While these issues are existed people will wishing man like Mussolini

@DASHA PETROVA.Totally false what you affirm:prices in Italy are lower than anywhere else,especilly France.You are trying to keep the visitors far from Italy:one of the main initiatives of someone between our european friends.I add something more:as the Summer will approach,as happened in the last 3 years,we shall witness strange,unexplicable "rapes" damaging so called "female foreign visitors" together with strange homicides in the center of Milan and Rome under the visitor's eyes,and other strange phenomenons like arsons,foreign cars damaged,and else.

Fascism, Catholisism, Capitalism, will all be swept away into the cess pit of history, when the working class rise up in Social Revolution. Berlusconi is only uttering what the rest of the bourgeoisie are already thinking.

While in Italy the mass media and the left Press are diverting people'attention with laughable issues and gossips like e.g.Berlusconi's comments on Mussolini's deeds, something banal and insignificant that happened 80 years ago and nobody cares, they don't make much of the huge, appaling scandal concerning the PD the criminal left party heir of Communism, which through the bank Monte dei Paschi of Siena has stolen and snatched 14 billion euros and is on the point of ruling Italy. A terrifying event for Italy and Europe.

Bunga bunga (like any other safe sex activity) has been shown to improve one's smartness and capability of understanding. So I suggest to add THE JOURNAL OF MEDICINE to your readings on THE ECONOMIST. (Everything is knowledge).

Ahh, a 'fascist' is NOT a 'right-ist' , but a 'leftist', like Hilter, like Mao, like...! To be 'right' is to embrace personal responsibility, a limited government, private capital. A 'leftist' is one who desires government control on most ALL things, public, private, and has a 'cookie cutter' approach to most problems. Get your nomenclature correct.

Your "pysch-therapy" comment is a smoke screen. The fact remains, those who do NOT want the peoples' personal liberty are 'State-ist'...hence, the aforementioned post. Those who favor personal liberty of the 'people' are libertarian (not 'libertine'...IE...lack of moral/ethical restraint), and are considered to the 'right'. Check historical reference, only *after* WWII where the burgeoning media used their clout to change definitions, were the meanings changed. As now in America, the Tea Party refers...according to 'media' as a 'far right wing', but, that is to nominalize those who hold a 'republican' view of their Constitution. The present Administration holds a left-left of center view, but, the media is in their pocket, and portrays assaults on the traditional family, mores, social structure as the norm.

All of them had historically been criminal who committed genocide and systematic elimination of opponent.
Mussolini was a socialist, at the start and is not the only guilty as one man can take power without support from others people and political forced.
Is not point history is not in favor of the fascist regime and his leader.
Berlusconi is a shame for all Italian's including myself and as is instigating racism and with is money obtain by tax evasion is corrupting all Italy. My hope is that will be ignore by the voting citizen's.

Mussolini was a classical Leninist socialist (supported by Lenin) and then modified his views a little to become a national socialist. It's absurd to say that by a slight change he suddenly went from far left to far right. Makes more sense to put all this as different variants of leftism, or stateism.

I think the jury is still out over whether he was effecient.
`
For instance, the military didn't do to well in WWII. And that is after spending quite a bit on the military - a little over 10% of national income up until the mid-1930s, and something like 14.5% of the national income in 1937.

Economic stats were not great, once one cuts through the propaganda. For instance, Italy's share in world manufacturing declined in the 1930s.

Thanks, Michael; that's useful to know. The propaganda is not to dismiss, however. I remember people's nostalgia for Mussolini when I lived in Italy in 1970s. We hear similar things about Suharto in Indonesia. People love a strong leader in times of uncertainty. And sometimes they pull it off (Lee Kuan Yew, for example, although Singapore being so tiny no doubt made this easier).

The reason I suggest a conversation about dictatorship is that it has such a strong popular appeal in many parts of the world -- and by 'conversation', I mean public discussion led perhaps by The Economist.

Except Mussolini was often a weak leader, specifically after bringing his country into WWII without much preparation.
`
Basically kept jumping from the frying pan into the fire multiple times (from 1940 onwards).
`
The only clear strength was willingness to surpress various forms of domestic opposition in the 1920s and 1930s (probably was good at that, since some were probably former comrades).
`
He wasn't even all that original, stole Gabriele d'Annunzio's schtik. If people were nostalgic about Mussolini in the 1970s, you have to wonder about their political maturity or sanity.
`
Just look at what happened to Italy from 1943 to 1945 - almost got chewed apart on multiple levels.