Thats the question, I typed out a whole paragraph explaining the issue but was told I was not logged in when I tried to submit it, which I actually was.

Never mind. Sai Baba is a interesting subject. What do you think of him?

BLAIR2BE

22-09-2006, 03:43 AM

you should have logged in again (if prompted) and your paragraph would have posted (but use the login box in the middle of the screen, not the one in the corner) for future reference:)

i have no idea about sai baba...sorry:(

peteyzen

22-09-2006, 09:06 AM

Hi Honza, what a lovely question, and one I can answer wholly for you my friend.
No Sai Baba is not the re incarnation of vishnu, he is an avatar, some have suggested that he is shiva incarnated, I cannot comment on this, but I know that he is in the sense you mean, not krishna.
However, having said that As a divine being, an avatar, he is at all times one with god, so in a sense, because there is no seperation for the divine, he is!!! Many is the time baba has shown this oneness.
The kalki incarnation of vishnu, the final incarnation tho is not Sai Baba.

Have you any experience of Sai baba Honza or Mother Meera , another avatar?
What do you maker of the concept of avatars?

jeremy67

22-09-2006, 10:36 AM

Firstly I want to say that I know nothing about Sai Baba or any of his teachings, so I stand to be corrected if I'm in error about anything, and I apologise in advance if this is so.

Aren't there persistant rumours that Sai Baba has been linked with numerous child abuse cases? If this is so, I'd like to know what those of you who put store in his teachings think about this; whether you believe it, or not, or whether you think that his spiritual value as a teacher somehow merits a blind eye being turned to these allegations.

Personally, if there is even a hint of truth in the allegations, I couldn't follow the teachings of this man, no matter how spiritual he might be. It all smacks of the way the catholic church has played down child abuse cases in the past.

Love and Light,
Jeremy :cool:

peteyzen

22-09-2006, 03:15 PM

Hi jeremy, yes there have been some accusations, I cant speak of them myself, I know a couple have been repudiated in court, I can only speak of what I know of the man and what he does and I have had some powerful experiences of my own through sai baba. I do not beleieve these accusations personaly. But I can neither prove or disprove them and wont waste my time trying to.

All I would add is this, to people in the west the idea of a divine being is (and it used to be to me too) a ridiculous and ignorant concept. I can see how people find it difficult if not impossible to give credence to Baba, I can also see how the ego reacts when followers of baba and other spiritual figures dont get what they want. But your point in bringing this aspect up is important. All I can say is that my experience and everyone I know cannot believe these allegations to be true.
Hope that helps

Honza

22-09-2006, 03:40 PM

Sai Babas teachings are principly loving, he says we are all God its just that most of us are asleep to the fact. What annoys many people is that he calls himself God in the absolute sense; that there is no difference between God and himself. The trouble is anyone could call themself God; as we know leaders of religeous cults often do. I think people fear that if one calls oneself God all sorts of 'dark' forces might be at work.
Personally I don't think Sai Baba is God Himself. I have spent time studying his teachings which are along the lines of 'The Geeta' and 'Upanishads' and have even been to Sai Baba groups. I eventually felt it was time to move on. I must admit I have had some strange experiences concerning him, not all of them good.
Accusations against him may be vicious slander; because he is so outspoken and seemingly so arrogant. It is easy to accuse and not so easy to refute. People may just be trying to ruin him.
But I feel people should be cautious with 'beings' who proclaim themself God, because not everything may be as it seems.

peteyzen

22-09-2006, 03:45 PM

Well put Honza, I am sorry that not all of your experiences with baba have been good.
If you read my posts you probabaly know that I believe him to be an avatar, which would essentially mean that for me he is an incarnation of god, So I believe that he has come down and we are going up so to speak. But who knows hey? One day no doubt we all will.
Love
Peteyzen

eternity

07-10-2006, 01:39 PM

Petezen,
Yes Sai baba is an Avatar as is Sri Krishna and The Divine mother Meera.All avatars are one with the Divine but in human form on earth.Look up Avatar on the search engine of any computer.
Mankind is in need of all the spiritual help possible and every now and again Avatars come here to help you all out.
Light and grace.
Eternity.

dreamer

07-10-2006, 09:55 PM

Hi Honza,

I was interested to read that Sai Baba says we are all God and that he is regarded as being arrogant by some. Does he treat all as equals to himself, I am interested to know this? It puzzles me how anyone can accuse someone of arrogance for stating that they are God alongside everyone else, surely arrogance is seeing oneself as better than others not on a par with them? I'd be interested in peoples views on this it makes no sense to me.

Honza

08-10-2006, 01:44 AM

Hi Honza,

I was interested to read that Sai Baba says we are all God and that he is regarded as being arrogant by some. Does he treat all as equals to himself, I am interested to know this? It puzzles me how anyone can accuse someone of arrogance for stating that they are God alongside everyone else, surely arrogance is seeing oneself as better than others not on a par with them? I'd be interested in peoples views on this it makes no sense to me.

Although Baba says we are all God he plays on the fact that he has the upper hand because he is AWARE that he is God but most of us are not, yet. I think he is called arrogant because there are many people who believe in God and are on the spiritual path who give God the upper hand; to whom God is superior than themselves. Baba does not do this, he claims to be equal to God, i.e. his word is Gods word.
One can believe oneself to be God, as are all things, and NOT believe oneself to be equal to Him; i.e. He is greater or the greatest, and not ones own self like Baba says. I'm not sure whether Baba feels better than us or not, I think what he says is that He is God and that we are aspects of His self. He says things like he seperated himself from himself for the act of creation or love; so he does call us God but I feel he always gives himself the advantage!

dreamer

08-10-2006, 07:48 AM

Hey Honza, great thread,

If I look at myself, there are parts of myself that are ignorant that are unenlightened, then there are parts that are partially awake and partially aware of the truth, then there are parts of me that are fully awakened to the truth.so it seems fairly logical to me that other aspects of the universe could quite easily be other aspects of my self which is in essence a shared SELF, shared with all other aspects of the universe. Maybe Sai Baba is a more enlightened aspect of this SELF whilst George Bush is less so, maybe the less enlightened aspects of myself are there to prompt me away from this way of being where more loving and enlightened parts serve as a guide to where i want to go? either way there is a lesson to be learned from all aspects and that lesson must be to learn to really undersatnd the truth about my whole self, to recognise and reconcile my own ignorance so that I can love mySELF fully whilst resolving to help enlighten those aspects that are unaware of the possibility of enlightenment.

I cannot see how we could not all be God as God is everything, but I can believe that we are not all God conscious which is something that takes time to recognise within oneself, the supreme God head lies beyond God Conciousness. We are all different aspects of this one self and this one self is God, we have this one self available to us all of us do but we become consumed by the idea that we are seperate and lesser than other aspects.

If one truly knows that all is one, there can be no better or worse, arrogance or humility in fact arrogance and humility are tied together to become the supreme peace of God conciousness. If a person stands in a room full of mirrors by themselfthey do not think I am better than that reflection and worse than that one, they think all these reflections are of me, there is no arrogance or humility if you recognise oneness.

Neeti_Shri

18-11-2006, 06:11 AM

hi all!
i am living in the divine presence of baba these days,i have been his ardent devotee since 7 years.well,as baba says,one should not dabble on the shore of the ocean,searching for pearls and concluding that there are no pearls in the ocean at all.one should dive deep and find out the truth of the matter.these are not his exact words,theyre just mine.what i mean to say is that to taste the sweetness of spirituality and god,one must concentrate and go deep into the heart of the matter.yes,baba is a complete incarnation of god and krishna himself.this i say not just from reading his books or from others experiences but from my own experiences that i cannot deny.my journey towards baba started unexpectedly 7 years back and it has been the most beautiful and thrilling time of my life.he is the lord god on earth,he has proved it to me,and to all his devotees who have intense faith in him.a small example..actually,i was so into lord krishna before i ever heard of baba.once during a crisis in my life,i prayed to lord krishna to solve my problem.not just prayed,i surrendered completely.immediately,i got books on baba,where he mentioned to his great american devotee,john hislop,that he is krishna.when hislop mentioned krishna once to baba,that since the time of krishna,one has never had the chance to converse with the lord,baba says[in the book],"i am krishna where is time?"i was astounded to read that.here i was,praying to krishna,and out of thousands of books on sai baba ,i recieved that one!that was just the beginning.i was so grateful to god,that he heard my prayer,it was unbelievable that krishna is back on earth again!
this is just a small experience compared to those that followed...and miraculously,i got the chance a few months back to shift permanently to his abode,prashanti nilayam in puttaparthi,south india.that is where i am,enjoying the bliss and peace that millions of ppl find here everyday.i have never even met baba yet,all my miraculous experiences have been while i was away in other countries or in other states in india.imagine,i feel his presence,wherever i may be!baba is truly god himself,that much i can tell you.thanking you,neeti.

Honza

20-11-2006, 06:37 AM

Hi Neeti,

Funnily enough my Mum is a Baba devotee; she has been to India and the Ashram (from England). Recently she went for the wedding of one of her friends daughters. Her friend and his family live in the Ashram, he is called Jit and his wife is Hem. I would not be suprised if you know them or have at least met them or seen them. They do healing work there.
However with me its a different story; I just don't appreciate when 'Beings' call themselves God. As far as I'm concerened God is EVERYTHING, even the air. So although I know that I am God and that he is me, there is MORE TO IT THAN THAT.
God to me is reality and all the people in it, the illusion is not to recognise God when you are God and sitting within God, breathing God and talking to God.
So although Baba may be Conscious God to me everything is that already so I don't actually need the figurehead that Baba provides.
In other words Baba, to me, is no more God than anyone else. Its just that he is more aware/awake than most people. You Neeti are God too, but the God you are has decided to manifest as a person and play the game called life. The computer I'm writing on is God manifested as a computer.
So although Baba may be conscious God I say 'So What' in a sense, because WHAT ACTUALLY IS NOT CONSCIOUS GOD?
Not being aware of God is sleep or a dream, because there is no one else.
( Or there is nothing else ).

Cheers, Honza.

Neeti_Shri

21-11-2006, 06:19 AM

hi honza!u r so right,everything u said is so right.but baba is not just more awake and aware than most ppl,he is the paramatma himself.all is god,but our reality is that we are 'creation' and we are jivatmas,a wave on the limitless ocean of paramatma.once we 'experience' this truth,and become one with paramatma,then we can say we are truly liberated.until then,it is just a knowledge we have.he is the creator,krishna himself.we can never be equal to krishna,no one can...baba is a sadguru,helping people find the spiritual path and helping them stick to it.well,if u dont need baba to be ur figurehead,theres absolutely no problem!after all,it is god,formless or formed,that we want to experience and love and have union with.since we experience misery even after having much knowledge and ideas about god,baba helps with his grace to remove our karma,gives us godly experiences and guides us,so that we reach,moksha,the state of eternal peace.well,it is hard to be focused on the formless,so i feel this is a chance to be snatched,when the avatar is alive and ready to help.thats what i feel...
i have never seen anything as marvellously simple as babas discourses and teachings.i read them daily and put them into practise and get the desired results that he says one will get.thats how im moving forward in the spiritual path.thank you and take care,neeti.

Neeti_Shri

21-11-2006, 06:37 AM

oh,im sorry,honza,i used a lot of indian words without realising it!lol...i know it wont make any sense to u or anyone else here.'paramatma' is the overself or the highest self,'jivatma' basically means a spark of the divine flame,or a part of the overself.'sadguru' means,god himself as guru,the highest guru or teacher.'karma' is basically that every action we do has a reaction or a consequence.'moksha' means liberation or final god realisation.lol,gosh im so silly... 'avatar' means a human incarnation of god.gosh im so sorry i'll be more careful in the future.thanx!neeti.

Ascended Master

25-11-2006, 02:42 AM

I don't know the man, but I must admit that I personally don't trust his eyes...

With love and light,

AM

Eduards

25-11-2006, 09:03 AM

My friend says that Sai Baba is demon :/

dreamer

25-11-2006, 07:19 PM

It might be worth remembering that Krishna was only a channel through which the word of God flowed to Arjuna, later in the Mahebarat Krishna was unable to remember a word of what he had previously said - we are all potential channels for truth, love and peace and all of us will at some point speak Gods highest truths with concious acknowledgement that we are so doing - the rest of the time we speak Gods truth unaware of the profundity of our every utterance. imho. I would also add that if Sai Baba were God incarnate and was absolutely pure in his knowledge that this were the case, using the law of attraction as a guide, would it not be so that all who encountered him in any way would be insatntly touched by the truth he embodied? I doubt anyone would call him a demon unless somewhere in his mind that doubt also existed, whats in is out after all - having said that anything I have read that has been attributed to him rings true for me and nothing I have read points to him thinking of himself as any better than anyone else, in fact everything I have read seems to suggest that he sees everything as being a different aspect of the same thing, so how could anything be better or worse and thats all I can go on really.

John A. Manley

26-11-2006, 06:38 PM

Well, I guess in the ultimate sense, we are all Krishna -- and especially the self-realized few amongst.

Whether he is or isn't Krishna though probably won't have much affect on my spiritual progress, though.

Not trying to down an interesting question. But that may be all it's worth.

Might be better to ask how we can apply Krishna's teaching to our modern day existence.

John

Monkey

05-01-2007, 06:44 AM

He is a paedophile, a murderer and a charlatan!

I have seen very clear evidence of him tricking people, using the kind of tricks magicians use. I have also seen footage with families who were very involved, in the inner circle state that their children along with others were sexually molested by him. That they also knew that he had murdered someone to keep them silent about his paedophile activities.

Eventhough I am Christian, I don't have anything against Hinduism, or the idea of incarnation or reincarnation, infact, I believe in many of these concepts, and have been to kirtans, read the Mahabaratta, Gita, etc, that is, I am no expert but at the same time, I know enough to distinguish between a very egotistical, very ordinary human man with good magician's hands, and the Real deal.

Just because some people have had extraordinary experiences around him does not a saint or a God make of him. Some of it may very well be psychic ability but then who said that psychic ability was only the tool of the good people. Very psychic people with ill intent can also use their ability to draw people. However, I don't think this guy is even gifted in this way, I think he depends on magic tricks, charm and people who are wanting to believe so badly that they are willing to play down and ignore the truth about him. When one says, he is surrounded by scandal, accused of paedophilia, witnessed and confirmed by victims, the answer by the believer is that as westeners we don't understand, bull, we do get it. It means an adult male who was absolutely trusted and where the families had no complaints of him took into his room young children and stripped them and did horrible things to them. I'm certainly not confused about what this means, there is nothing western or eastern about this. Pity the children who are beloved by God, true images, symbols, not this scoundrel.