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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Jim F – Congrats on your recital. Holding things together after an error is a valuable skill. It sounds like you did great!

Cheryl- Plateaus do happen, but so do breakthroughs. One of these days your Chopin is just going to flow! I think of plateaus as breathing points to let your physiology incorporate all the new ideas that you are asking of it.

Starr Keys – to be able to be able to take a song, play it by ear, AND sing along in only a few hours is amazing! Major kudos!

This week I had a lesson with a new piano teacher that speaks English, to discuss some technique issues that I cannot seem to solve. My regular teacher speaks only Russian and German, and unfortunately my German just isn’t good enough for me to ask the right questions or to understand her answers completely. The new teacher did her PhD work on the physiology of playing piano, and works with injured pianists. It was an amazing lesson. She quickly recognized where I am carrying tension in my hands and in my shoulders, and had pointers to resolve it. I played two pieces that I know well (my last two recital pieces), and she wants to use those to teach me to play more relaxed and confidently. The changes that she helped me make in the lesson were very helpful. Plus, her manner is very encouraging and helps me feel at ease. I am often too uptight in my lesson, which certainly does not help the tension issue. It sounds like I need to back off the difficulty of pieces for a while until I can play confidently in a relaxed way. So, I guess this is a plateau of sorts too. I need to get my basic technique corrected to play competently and confidently. Then I can move ahead.

Wow, JimF - what a great description of a wonderful accomplishment at your recital. I loved your picture of "I could hear the music playing in my head"... which meant you could get back on track. Between you and FarmGirl, I've got a new goal - to be able to play through significant mistakes, which I just can't do yet. Inspiring!

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Started playing: February 2011. Still having fun.

SwissMS I sometimes wonder, do I need to back off, fix some things. But we (my teacher and I) have been doing that a bit anyway and the technique is improving. That other teacher you've found sounds awesome - I assume you will just be taking a few lessons rather than carrying on both?

Bessel, great to be inspired by our co-forumisti, (I invented that word ) , isn't it?

SwissMS, I can imagine the difficulties. I'm pretty fluent in Italian but sometimes we come across words or concepts that I don't even know in English and it gets tricky....Glad you had a session with such a good English-speaking specialist. Getting rid of the tension is a good priority to focus on.

I had a lovely lesson today. No, I didn't play anything brilliantly or flawlessy! We just "worked" well today. Figured out some alternative fingerings for the Leopold Mozart piece I'm playing, and a new one (Haydn) - and we looked at Fly Me to the Moon a bit. I told my teacher I'd like to sing along with this and she suggested I study it first then add the words. The left hand isn't hard, but there are some very weird-to-me combinations (7th chords).

I also asked her if she thought I'd got as far as I could with the Chopin for now and her reply was that she did feel I could go further but at the same time that it might be a good idea to back off a bit and let it percolate. She suggested not playing it very much for 4-5 weeks, and definitely not "studying" it - then starting up again.

She felt that the reason I am not moving forward is because I haven't get really got the hang of "small focus study".

She said that I'm at a point where I am indeed pulling things together and ready for challenges, but to expect some growing pains.

As I listened to it I thought...hmm, I have heard something like this before, so I googled him and realized that I'd heard him play Ballade pour Adeline, which I'm sure I learned about here in the forums.

So, no real "achievement" ---- except a sense of balance and understanding of where I am (and that's not bad!)

Thanks for the encouragment - you all know exactly how meaningful it is to hear back from those in the same boat who really do understand what angst you're putting yourself through!

Edited by casinitaly (05/25/1211:15 AM)

_________________________ XVIII-XXXVISometimes I try to progress faster than I am ready for.SwissMsFollow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard. BobPicklePerformance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Andy- No, I am carrying on with both teachers for a while. They are focussed on different things. The Russian teacher is teaching technique for Bach/Baroque music, and the new teacher is focussed on relaxation. Long term I expect to stay with the Russian teacher, and hopefully improve my German as well. I have learned a lot from her, but the tension issue needs to be addressed in a way I can grasp, i.e., in English. The new teacher is a specialist $$$$ and 1 1/2 hours away, so, hopefully I can transition to one teacher in time.

That's really great, SwissMS. I'm having tension issues myself. My left hand is getting better, but I'm really limiting my practice time. I mentioned awhile back that I can detect tension when I'm playing scales, and make myself relax (or at least I think I can), and to a certain extent I can do this with pieces I'm more familiar with, but I'm still getting a little hand pain. Which means i have to quit practicing.

I met the person I was going to do Alexander technique lessons with last night. Supposedly she speaks English, but if she does, I didn't see any signs of it last night. I'm really getting worried now. My piano teacher doesn't seem to be able to resolve my problems (or help me resolve my problems). I'll try one lesson with the AT teacher. Maybe she was just feeling shy last night...

FarmGirl - good for you on your recital! The point is not the mistakes, but that you participated, shared your music, and people enjoyed it.

Sand Tiger - It sounds like your Songmakers participation was a fun experience. Yet it takes some courage to play with other people like that.

JimF - wow! A hundred people! That's a great accomplishment to perform in front of an audience of that size.

Originally Posted By: JimF

One benefit I forgot to mention...you get to listen to other people making beautiful sounds come out of your piano. For me that was a totally new experience.

That's why I love it when my tuner comes. After he's done with the tuning, he always plays something beautiful on my piano, and I'm just in awe of how good it can sound in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.

Originally Posted By: SwissMS

My regular teacher speaks only Russian and German, and unfortunately my German just isn’t good enough for me to ask the right questions or to understand her answers completely.

Luckily both I and my teacher speak English, but sometimes it still feels like he's speaking a foreign language!

cas - on your experience of hitting a plateau with your Chopin piece. The same thing happened to me with a couple of my pieces. One I set aside for a few months, and now have come back to it and am making good progress again. Another one (a Chopin etude, as a matter of fact) is still in the "holding" stage. I'm not too concerned, since it will still be there when I'm ready to come back to it.

I'm in the same boat as you, cas. Between holidays, my vacation, and teacher's vacation, I'm also going for a long time without lessons this summer. I just had my last lesson on Wednesday, and now will be off for 7 weeks. It was actually kind of funny though, because when he realized that we wouldn't have a lesson until mid-July, he was concerned that we might not have enough time to get my next piece ready for the August ABF recital. So I think our recitals here have become the official milestones that we work towards throughout the year.

In preparation for my last lesson, I spent the week just reading, playing through, and listening to tons of music that I might want to start working on during my time off. I went through several George Winston pieces (especially looking at "Joy" and his arrangement of Pachelbel's Canon), and much to my teacher's disappointment, decided on the Canon. For a Baroque piece, my teacher suggested a Bach Prelude and Fugue, but I found four of his 3-part inventions that I liked much better and very much want to learn. We decided to start with #14 in B-flat major. For my Classical piece, I've been working on the first movement of Mozart's C minor sonata for some time now. But the entire work is just so dramatically beautiful, I had to start looking at the 2nd and 3rd movements. So the 2nd movement is also now on my assignment list. And for my Romantic piece, I'll continue to work on the Chopin C# minor waltz. Whew -- I guess I won't have time to get into trouble this summer.

Interesting how many of us have teachers who don't speak English (Mine is learning, but ...let's just say I do more homework at the moment than she does )

MaryBee I listened to your new pieces - the Bach is charming - and I can imagine that's going to take some concentration! I love the polyphony of Bach. I made a mistake in my post above, the piece is Handel not Haydn. There is a bit of polyphony but it is a much more simple piece than what you're taking on!

The Mozart piece is wonderful. I noticed that there were some little elements that made me think of Beethoven's Pathetique.

I think that these pieces will certainly keep you busy for the next few weeks!

_________________________ XVIII-XXXVISometimes I try to progress faster than I am ready for.SwissMsFollow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard. BobPicklePerformance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

We had our semiannual adult piano workshop/party at my teacher's home. Played the Chopin polonaise on her vintage Baldwin grand under the chandelier. My hands were a bit shaky and I flubbed a few notes but it moved nicely and finished well. Also played a Tango duet with my teacher who is the human metronome and keeps it on time no matter what...that's pressure. Although I didn't achieve the written tempo I did manage to play it much faster than we had done at lessons. It DID sound like a Tango. Only had 3 weeks to learn that one. So all in all an accomplishment.

MaryBee I listened to your new pieces - the Bach is charming - and I can imagine that's going to take some concentration! I love the polyphony of Bach. I made a mistake in my post above, the piece is Handel not Haydn. There is a bit of polyphony but it is a much more simple piece than what you're taking on!

This is entirely new to me. I've done a couple 2-part inventions, but adding that third voice seems to double the difficulty. We'll see how it goes.

Originally Posted By: casinitaly

The Mozart piece is wonderful. I noticed that there were some little elements that made me think of Beethoven's Pathetique.

My teacher mentioned that to me too. It seems some music scholars think that the Pathetique was strongly influenced by this Mozart sonata.

WiseBuff, lucky you to be able to participate in a piano party! For me, playing a duet with someone who has a good steady sense of tempo is easier than playing alone. One less thing to have to think about.

SwissMs, CasInItaly & others - I can identify with the plateau feeling (more about that later).

Starr Keys - that is quite impressive. I really enjoyed your recital entry. Songs or tunes with an emotional content often move me.

WiseBuff - way go on the tango. In public at full tilt tempo is a brave brave thing.

As for my week #11, I listened to the recordings from my Songmakers performance. For those that read that thread, mixed is about as good as I can characterize it.

I feel the plateau as well. I feel like the first chapter is finished, with the performance, the five original compositions, the one cover song. There is often an emotional down after a performance day.

I have been poking away at Ashokan Farewell for the past three weeks and progress continues to be slow. I am doing hands separate, hands together, and the excellent forum suggestion to start at different points. All that and it still feels pokey. It is more like a big hill than a plateau. I can hear the progress in the three weeks, but the progress feels slow and the effort and focus required substantial.

I am still experiencing hand discomfort. I am still wearing gloves when I play. I am trying to keep a hard limit of one hour max per day. Before, one hour was the minimum.

I spent some time listening to more of the ABF recital pieces. I want to say I'm not worthy. However, I'm sure every beginner beginner gets the same feeling when listening to some of the more experienced musicians on the forum.

The ABF survey helped give me more perspective. About half that responded to the survey never have submitted for recital. On many Internet forums, there are ten readers for every person that posts. So it may be about 5% of readers and posters that have submitted for recital. Those that don't play well are much less likely to participate or post.

I returned to spending time on composition. With the recital and performance day, I shelved that time so I haven't written anything or even done much noodling around in over a month. I don't know if it will come to be #6. The inner critic telling me that the work in progress sounds too simple, too clumsy, too klinky, whatever. I have learned the hard way, that the inner critic is one of the biggest obstacle for songwriters and composers, and for the most part to be ignored.

Thanks all for the comments, the reports, even the struggles. The hills, valleys and plateaus are all part of the journey. Enjoy.

Hi everyone, thank you for all of your encouragement. i am back to Phoenix again. I played the piano a couple of hours and it felt great after a week of not playing so much. I was able to put in a little in a music store while in Utah thanks to the kind people there. But I missed my piano... I am not planning to go anywhere this weekend and looking forward to get back into practice mode ago.

Jim F - I did not have so many people. That's amazing. Good job.

WiseBuff - good for you playing through Chopin's Polonaise to your satisfaction. It's not an easy thing to do under pressure.

MaryAnn and others who has non-English speaking teachers - I had the opposite experience. While i speak English, my childhood music training was done all in Japanese. So it made my early lessons in the US almost comical. We used the fixed Do system so it's Do Re Mi Fa So la Si instead of ABCDEFG. And they use different alphabet to describe majors and minors. I Ro Ha Ni Ho He To. C major is Ha Cho-cho and C minor is Ha Tan-cho. A major is I (pronounced as "E") Cho-cho and A minor is I Tan-Cho. When my teacher asked me "What is this note?", I used to have to touch the key on the piano then think about what it is in English. I think my teacher must have thought I was so slow... I hated it whenever she asked me something like key signatures for B major.. I say it has 5 sharps.. then with great difficulty, I used to come up with the letters of the notes. She must have wondered if I can read the notes (LOL). Perhaps I got used to American style. But I now prefer American way of teaching. It's more fun. i hated having to do all the techniques for 30 min or so when i was a kid.

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Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composersCollaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets

so... i've done it. my first "public" performance. the Krieger minuet went well, a few wrong notes, but I kept going. I had to restart the Bach minuet, and hit alot of bad notes, but got there in the end. People were nice. There were no other beginners there. I couldn't believe how talented some of my colleagues are. One person really struggled with my DP--he has a digital at home, but his is much better. I think he had a frustrating night, and was then mad at himself for getting so frustrated. After everyone played their pieces, we just tinkered around a bit. People were playing in pairs--one doing the left hand, one doing the right. I played Melodie RH, while my friend played the left (he wasn't familiar with it at all, but is advanced enough to sight read one hand of such a piece easily). It was fun. We'll probably do it again, though I think everyone was hoping for a better piano next time.

Actually, one thing was kinda cool about having a DP. Quite a few of the people who came had no recent practice at all (we have a lot of people who work here just a few months, so they don't tend to travel with pianos!), so we had about an hour at the beginning where they practiced with headphones on while the rest of us ate brownies and chatted. It worked out really well.

Congrats, MaryAnn. It takes a lot of guts to play in front of others when you (rightly or wrongly) believe they are better/more experienced players than you are. And good for you getting through your pieces even if there were some mistaken notes. I'll bet everyone really admired how you stuck with it, no matter what their playing level.

The afterward duets and noodling aroung was the best part at my get-together and it sounds like you had a similar experience. Good job.

Responding to a challenge from Casinitaly, I'll make a fair follow up of this thread and also to write in it.

My AOTW was that I decided to take a detour in the music of Einaudi, and I'm working on a piece of Helen Jane Long. So far, so good; let's see how this results ... - Thank you Monika! Your piece of Helen Jane Long in the last recital was essential for finding her work -.

Next, this is not (yet) an AOTH, it's more a challenge: Last week my mother has left the hospital after she suffer a heart problem. Believe it, or not, and when I went to visit her at home this saturday, she asked me about the last ABF Recital. I gave her my MP3 player and then, above other things, she said that she would love to have a CD to listen my interpretations. That way, she could listen my music at home and everytime she wants. Therefore, I have an huge work in front of me... I can't denny such request.

Wisebuff, that sounds like a lovely time - and a Tango duet! What fun. I have only played duets with my teacher, and a six yr old beginner when I was about 4 months into playing.

Sand Tiger - I find your piano journey quite stunning. I know you've got background on other instruments but your piano progress is really something! I think you're right,a lot of new people (new to the piano) are shy to participate in the recitals here - but really, it is an ideal solution for those who don't have an opportunity to play with/for others. There's a lot of encouragment to participate, no matter what your level - and a huge amount of that encouragment comes from the more experienced players.

FarmGirl, I can relate to knowing the notes by different names! My teacher says DO-RE-MI, I use ABC.When we get to "B" we really run into difficulties because in Italin "B" is "SI". So, I don't know if she is saying "SI" as in "B", or if she is saying "C" or if she is saying "Si" as in "yes". We laugh a lot in the lessons.

MaryAnn, you music party sounds like it was a wonderful time. I think I have to organize a party with people who are adult beginners. I have a wonderful time with my musical friends, but it isn't at all the same as playing with peers or people who are just a few years ahead in terms of playing.

Carlos! Welcome! I'm glad to hear your Mom is home and hope she is feeling better every day. It is wonderful she is so keen to have your music! I bet it will help her relax and stay calm!

MaryBee, I got curious about the relationship between Beethoven and Mozart....I know we have to take Wiki articles with a grain of salt, but here are some interesting points - including the fact that there seems to be no real evidence that they ever met face-to-face.wiki article on Beethoven & Mozart's influence

_________________________ XVIII-XXXVISometimes I try to progress faster than I am ready for.SwissMsFollow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard. BobPicklePerformance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

We're three weeks away from the next studio recital and I haven't memorized my pieces (well, not all sections) and this has never happened before?

My realization is that it takes less playing through to get the pieces close to performance ready. But without all that playing, the "automatic" memorization just isn't working! So, hard work ahead ... or use the music. Memorization is only compulsory for the kids in the studio

AndyI'm impressed that you CAN memorize. For some reason I can memorize vocal music easily but can't trust my memory on a classical piano piece. At our adult recital (we call them workshops) we all use music. It is certainly less intimidating to our new members that way and less likely to add to our stress level at any playing ability. When I played the Chopin last week I had the music but was surprised how close to memorized it was. Not quite though...we can blame Liszt for making us feel like we have to play it without sheet music...

Mary Ann congratulations on your first public performance. Isn't it too bad we hear our own wrong notes when mostly the audience overlooks it. That's a great accomplishment and TWO pieces too. WOW

Casinitaly. We try to do duets every time we do a workshop. One of the other students did a Mozart concerto with our teacher. It was fabulous (she is very advanced) but she's taking a break over the summer from lessons...just stressed her out. One time we had four of us adult students do a two piano quartet. That was fun...you REALLY have to keep going and keep up to tempo.

Carlos..I hope your mom is much better. That is so cool that she cares to hear you play. Family support is inspiring

I tried to play the first movement of Moonlight Sonata about a year ago and quickly realized that it was beyond my ability. I picked it up again yesterday. I am able to play through the first page! I'm pretty excited about that. I have been engrossed in a Joplin piece (The Weeping Willow) for the last few months. I have it thoroughly memorized, but can't seem to play all the way through without making mistakes. I have also learned a piece from a hymn book (How Great Though Art).....I am improvising that piece.

MaryBee, I got curious about the relationship between Beethoven and Mozart....I know we have to take Wiki articles with a grain of salt, but here are some interesting points - including the fact that there seems to be no real evidence that they ever met face-to-face.wiki article on Beethoven & Mozart's influence

Thanks for the link cas. That was interesting to read.

Carlos, that's so touching that your mom wants to have your music to listen to. And what a nice gift that will be to give her.

MaryAnn - I cannot believe i missed your post about your first performance. Good for you. I would love to have piano friends. I loved your playing the left hand and right hand part with your friends. I used to do it a lot with my younger and much more talented brother. My current duet partner is doing doctorate in Pharmacy so she is very busy.. Right now I don't know anyone who I can invite..

My AoTW - I am very happy to report that Rach 23-5 is getting better. I bought an extension code today for recording. I used to use my husband's code then he wasn't very happy with me because I wound up unplugging everything, his laptop, etc. Generally speaking, my husband hates piano music. He particularly does not like this piece because it has a very loud part. He likes elevator music, some music that he can sleep with. Does anyone have similar spouse? I am planning to turn one of the rooms into a music room. I will change the double door to the room so that it won't interface with his TV. Ironically my dogs seem to love my music. They will come to the piano whenever I am playing. Charlie the puppy (5 months old Golden Retriever) loves it so much he put his head on my foot when I am pedaling. Emma (2.5 years old Golden Retriever) spread herself on the floor right next to piano. When I am playing the C section, she turns around to lie on her back and stretch her arms and legs as though she was mesmerized. I love them both.

I also played through the 3rd movement of Pathetique. I have not touched it for a while but it's still there... phew! I had fun playing some video music and movie music too. There was a thread about improvement.. I think one thing I notice that I got better is sight-reading. It's like night and day. When I first came back to piano after 20+ years of absence, I could not even imagine doing it. What's bad about this is I stopped doing rigorous HS practice. I have to consciously remind myself to practice HS whenever there is tricky sections.

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Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composersCollaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets

Yesterday I read through Bach's English Suites 1-3, first page to last page. And then decided there is not much in there that is not too difficult for me at present.

I was a little surprised at how long they are (I'm used to suites with 4 or so movements, I guess).

Anyways, it's all part of a musical education!

Wow, you must be really good at sight reading. Good for you. I looked at English Suite and I know it's not something I can sight read easily. So I don't know how long it's going to take for me to read it from I through III.

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Solo - Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Schumann Op 12 Warum, Grillen and a few short pieces by various composersCollaboration - Concerto in C for Oboe and orchestra attributed to Haydn edited by Evelyn Rosewell and some duets

Andy Platt - Do not stress. IMO, 3 weeks is enough to memorize some sessions.

WiseBuff and MaryBee - My mom is getting better, thanks! The problem is that my wife went yesterday to the hospital because of a liver problem... Oh God, I think I'm going to take my DP to the hospital hall to play for my... family.

Eglantine - I think this is an excellent progress on your musical education. It's nice to know that you feel more and more confident.

Michael Taylor - Great progress! Great work! Congratulations.

FarmGirl - LOL, very funny. My advice: give a nice MP3 player to your husband, and an huge and comfortable pillow to your dog.

My AOTW: Due the liver problem of my wife I couldn't work on my Helen Jane Long piece..