This thread about the 3 second "GAP" is getting abstract. I think what missing in most of it is GPA. Just trade the tires on each of the cars in question and see what becomes of it at Milford. Until then.............. study hard and keep giving us your PHD thesis.

Hah. Still Same car. Broaden your horizon past your Chevy and your keyboard. M3, Z06, aventador, Italia, 911 turbo, and viper are different cars, modded Camaro gen 5's are modded camaros, whether modded by gm or by john q public. Same cars, one got race slick compound and one did not. That is fine. Not saying zl1 is better, never said that. Only said that if you want to compare lap times, give them both race compound or street tires. Pretty simple to comprehend, or so I thought. I see that some here see the logic and truth in that , some others cannot. I bet the "some others" just buy the cheapest tire available when you need replacements or you choose what tread pattern looks cool. Tires are just for driving to work on, right?

So if all Camaros are the same and we're gonna compare all Camaros with the same tires, should we throw the LS wheels/tires on the SS, 1LE, ZL1, and Z/28? That's the only way we can have a fair comparison right?

And regarding your earlier post about not seeing times at the 'Ring: it was months after we saw pics of the ZL1 at the 'Ring that we finally got times for it. But I guess GM was embarrassed by those times too, right?

Do we know what tires were used on the Zl1 during the 3 second slower benchmark? Maybe they were the latest and greatest. If GM says it's three seconds faster, I don't think it's just a tire advantage. Maybe a little, but if that 3 seconds disappears with the same tires, GM went through a lot of trouble for nothing.

Maybe they will come out and let us know what tires were used, or if the tires were different, they will re run the test with the same tires.

This thread about the 3 second "GAP" is getting abstract. I think what missing in most of it is GPA. Just trade the tires on each of the cars in question and see what becomes of it at Milford. Until then.............. study hard and keep giving us your PHD thesis.

Amen.

And, to those who believe that a car was designed for a certain tire and that giving it a better tire will not make the car faster...Wow.

And about hanging with a Z06, sure, just put three extra people in there and raise it up a couple inches. HAHA, GM is doing you guys a favor in not releasing the Ring times, the sky is the limit for your Z28 imaginations.

Tires make a huge Difference, more than any other modification in that price range! And the Trofeos were just released in 20's, now we just the release of the Z28, so we can put this 3 second farce to death.

And to the comment that the ZL1 will just shred the Trofeo's, sure, it actuall will, while it rails by a z28 at the ring.

This is why you are a troll. You only seem to be interested in causing "issues" with your statements.

You don't understand the troll concept very well, or the tire one either, whatever.

I have every right to post statements of speculative performance on a car just as you folks can speculate that it will be faster than a Z06 , will do the quarter in 10 seconds, and has a much lower center of gravity than another car with the same exact chassis. It can have a lower COG, technically, if it is 1/4 in lower, good luck with extremely dramatic performance changes though. Point is still, Pirelli used the rubber compound from their Race slicks on these tires, they are getting a rep -world wide- as the stickiest street rubber, they will improve the track times of ANY car they are put on, GM wanted to improve the track time on a camaro chasis, they couldnt have the torque of the ZL1, they give it slicks, so it could keep it's speed out through a corner. (yeah, some of you may think the LS7 has a broader torque curve that the LSA, it doesnt. They Z06 LS7 needs RPM to make power, at low RPM it lugs with a 3100 lb car, it will be worse with a 3800 lb car) these are fact from a person that drove a modified LS7 Z06 for a long time, accept it, the Z28 needed the tires to make that track time.

I'm one the few, if not the only person in this thread, who has owned an LS7 car, but I guess that makes me a troll. okey dokee.

Oh. I'm a troll because I don't agree with you . Or because you are afraid I am right. It is the latter. hah hah.

Here's a real NIGHTMARE....Mark Stielow drove YOUR ZL1 faster than you ever will at Gingerman Raceway. He then drove his personal 1969 Camaro faster than YOUR ZL1 by several seconds in a single lap at Gingerman Raceway. He knew how important it was to make YOU and YOUR ZL1 look bad so he CHEATED by making sure his Camaro had STICKY TIRES that YOUR ZL1 didn't so he could beat it and make YOU personally look bad. You're the ONLY ONE THAT'S FIGURED THIS OUT!!!! He hates you now. He's out to get you...

It gets worse....

Mark Stielow convinced GM to put him in charge of the Z/28 program so he could continue embarrassing YOU PERSONALLY by developing a car that's a NIGHTMARE for you by giving it STICKY TIRES because he KNEW that would enable him to make this new Z/28 make YOUR ZL1 look bad on the Nurburgring. GM is TOTALLY BEHIND THIS and gave him millions of dollars to carry out this PERSONAL insult to YOU and YOUR ZL1. They gave him the budget to fly an entire team plus cars over to Germany to do this because they REALLY WANTED to make YOUR ZL1 look worse than their new Z/28.

They did and are doing all this because they know how unbelievably important this thread is to not only their reputation, but the motoring world in general. They're afraid of you and how smart you are for figuring out their sticky tire trick!

SO....pony up son! Buy a set of Trofeos, slap them onto your mighty ZL1 and go to Gingerman Raceway and SHOW THEM PERSONALLY what CHEATERS and DECEIVERS they are. You'll be famous! Go for it. We'll be waiting to see the video and news reports. This will be....epic....

Here's a real NIGHTMARE....Mark Stielow drove YOUR ZL1 faster than you ever will at Gingerman Raceway. He then drove his personal 1969 Camaro faster than YOUR ZL1 by several seconds in a single lap at Gingerman Raceway. He knew how important it was to make YOU and YOUR ZL1 look bad so he CHEATED by making sure his Camaro had STICKY TIRES that YOUR ZL1 didn't so he could beat it and make YOU personally look bad. You're the ONLY ONE THAT'S FIGURED THIS OUT!!!! He hates you now. He's out to get you...

It gets worse....

Mark Stielow convinced GM to put him in charge of the Z/28 program so he could continue embarrassing YOU PERSONALLY by developing a car that's a NIGHTMARE for you by giving it STICKY TIRES because he KNEW that would enable him to make this new Z/28 make YOUR ZL1 look bad on the Nurburgring. GM is TOTALLY BEHIND THIS and gave him millions of dollars to carry out this PERSONAL insult to YOU and YOUR ZL1. They gave him the budget to fly an entire team plus cars over to Germany to do this because they REALLY WANTED to make YOUR ZL1 look worse than their new Z/28.

They did and are doing all this because they know how unbelievably important this thread is to not only their reputation, but the motoring world in general. They're afraid of you and how smart you are for figuring out their sticky tire trick!

SO....pony up son! Buy a set of Trofeos, slap them onto your mighty ZL1 and go to Gingerman Raceway and SHOW THEM PERSONALLY what CHEATERS and DECEIVERS they are. You'll be famous! Go for it. We'll be waiting to see the video and news reports. This will be....epic....

Yeah that was awesome vid, that car didn't have more power(yeah it did) and it didn't have 1000 lbs less weight(yeah, it did), and since it is not the same chassis, it isn't even related to this debate. good try though. Looks like I am still your nightmare Your angle of attack was about as relevant as putting the camaro against a Zonda.

And, again, learn to read, I never said cheaters. I said, have your man drive both cars with same tires. Pretty simple concept, but too much for you to comprehend, so you gather unrelated facts and then attack my driving ability, which was never brought up or even in question. Wow, look at you getting so upset because you cannot fathom such a simple concept as, "show me the times of both cars, with same tires, with the same GM driver. Now, calm down, change your diaper, breath, take your ritalin, and get back on topic. There is a three second difference, prove it is not just the tires.

You make your profile appear as though you race cars, but if you believe that tires don't matter, then your driving skills must be as bad as your debate ability. looks as if my driving ability is not the one to be doubted.