[14:02] <EuropracBHIT> So who's here: Enoch, Stephen, Nathan, Angela and me?
[14:02] <enochlau> yep
[14:02] <enochlau> we are expecting more though
[14:02] <EuropracBHIT> LIke Longhair.
[14:02] <enochlau> it's currently 1pm in brisbane and 2pm in melbourne i take it?
[14:02] <EuropracBHIT> That's right.
[14:02] <EuropracBHIT> Because Queensland doesn't have daylight saving ...
[14:02] <bainer> 11am in Perth, or something like that
[14:03] <enochlau> anyone from adelaide and perth coming?
[14:03] <EuropracBHIT> Any Queenslanders?
[14:03] <EuropracBHIT> Well, I don't know, really. The only one who expressed interest was Mark Ryan.
[14:03] <Andromeda_Strain> hey
[14:03] <bainer> hello
[14:03] <enochlau> hey
[14:03] <EuropracBHIT> Hi Andrew.
[14:04] * Andromeda_Strain is now known as AmishThrasher
[14:05] <enochlau> is there an evening session as well?
[14:05] <EuropracBHIT> As you can appreciate, there were some loose ends not tied up at the Sydney meeting. And that's what, in part, this meeting is for, as well as anything which might come up.
[14:05] <EuropracBHIT> I hope so.
[14:05] <bainer> 8pm
[14:05] <bainer> 8pm AEDT
[14:05] <enochlau> Sunday meeting?
[14:06] <enochlau> EuropracBHIT: sorry, what's your real name? :)
[14:06] <EuropracBHIT> Bronwyn Gannan.
[14:06] <enochlau> cool
[14:06] <AmishThrasher> want to do a round of introductions before we get underway?
[14:06] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, the UseModWiki rule of UseRealNames is an important one.
[14:06] <EuropracBHIT> Good idea.
[14:06] <enochlau> angela is still away it seems
[14:07] <EuropracBHIT> Who will start?
[14:07] <enochlau> before we start, is this being logged?
[14:07] <AmishThrasher> Hi, I'm AJ and I'm an alcoholic :P
[14:07] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, I think so.
[14:07] <enochlau> ok
[14:07] <AmishThrasher> j/k
[14:07] <EuropracBHIT> I'm Bronwyn and I'm a Wikipedian.
[14:08] <EuropracBHIT> I've been a Wikipedian for the last three years now.
[14:08] <enochlau> wow, a wikipedian eh? they're rare around here
[14:08] <EuropracBHIT> I began to work on Wikipedia for a practical writing placement at my TAFE.
[14:08] <enochlau> :P
[14:09] <bainer> ok, let's get started then
[14:09] <bainer> there's a draft agenda on meta, has everyone seen it? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Australia/Draft_Agenda_for_19_February_2006_IRC_Meeting
[14:10] <enochlau> yes
[14:11] <enochlau> i suggest we do angela's question first: "Should there multiple chapters instead of one for the whole of Australia? Angela 13:25, 18 February 2006 (UTC)"
[14:11] <enochlau> since the discussion for the other questions will depend on the outcome of this question
[14:11] <enochlau> hi
[14:11] <TimStarling> hi
[14:11] * angaway is now known as Angela
[14:11] <Angela> Hi.
[14:11] <bainer> hey angela
[14:11] <enochlau> harlo
[14:12] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, I saw it, I created the file.
[14:12] <EuropracBHIT> Hi Tim.
[14:12] <EuropracBHIT> Hi Brianna.
[14:12] <pfctdayelise> Hi!
[14:12] <enochlau> hey
[14:12] <bainer> hello
[14:12] <EuropracBHIT> Multiple chapters would be a good idea because they're more local.
[14:12] <EuropracBHIT> Like if there were just Melbourne issues or Sydney issues ...
[14:12] <enochlau> actually we didnt quite finish the introductions - should we continue them first?
[14:13] <Angela> Sounds a good idea.
[14:13] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, we've been working together closely for more or less the last month, but we still don't have a feel for each other.
[14:14] <EuropracBHIT> Angela: did you mean the introductions were a good idea, or the multiple chapters?
[14:14] <Angela> Introductions.
[14:14] <EuropracBHIT> I see. Thanks for making that clear.
[14:15] <enochlau> i'll go next
[14:16] <EuropracBHIT> Okay.
[14:16] * Gunzelette is now known as AmishThrasher
[14:16] <enochlau> i'm Enoch, and im a science/law student at sydney uni. around wikipedia, i lurk around FPC, law and science articles
[14:16] <enochlau> and i'm regularly at the help/ref desks
[14:17] <EuropracBHIT> I only ever came to the desk once, and that was for Asian female philosophers.
[14:17] * AmishThrasher is now known as Gunzelette
[14:17] <enochlau> i'm also an admin, and i'm a member of the australian and hong kong noticeboards
[14:17] <enochlau> lol
[14:17] <enochlau> alright im done
[14:17] <bainer> I'm Stephen, User:Thebainer, some of the Melbourne people already met me at the meetup last year
[14:17] <EuropracBHIT> When did you become an admin?
[14:17] <enochlau> december 2005, quite recently
[14:17] <EuropracBHIT> Thank you.
[14:18] <Gunzelette> Congratulations on it!
[14:18] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, well done.
[14:18] <enochlau> bainer: proceed :)
[14:18] <bainer> ok, I'm also an admin (since 8 Dec 2005, did I beat you enoch?), I do lots of law and politics articles
[14:19] <EuropracBHIT> So you and Enoch cover many of the same fields of interest.
[14:19] <EuropracBHIT> I was hoping that what you both knew of law and politics would be helpful to Wikimedia Australia.
[14:19] <enochlau> bainer: nup, december 2 :P
[14:19] <EuropracBHIT> Like with defamation law.
[14:20] <enochlau> i've only done 2 years of law, so dont count on me on knowing anything useful
[14:20] <bainer> haven't done any corp or defamation law yet, but I have access to all the resources
[14:20] <EuropracBHIT> Through the State Library here?
[14:20] <bainer> mainly through the libraries at uni (Melbourne), the internet law databases and such
[14:20] <enochlau> i have access to legal encyclopedias through my uni library website, but it's always risky to use them without proper backgrounding
[14:21] <EuropracBHIT> What do you mean, backgrounding?
[14:21] <enochlau> as in learning it in class first
[14:21] <enochlau> legal encyclopedias are necessarily brief
[14:21] <EuropracBHIT> And they don't cover every situation.
[14:21] <enochlau> yep
[14:21] <EuropracBHIT> If I wanted to know how to form Wikimedia Australia as a limited company, where would I go?
[14:22] <bainer> asic: http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/ASIC_INFOCO.NSF/byheadline/Starting+a+company+or+business?openDocument
[14:22] <pfctdayelise> ...shall I jump in now?
[14:22] <EuropracBHIT> Much appreciated. I think we should all take some time to read that.
[14:22] <enochlau> sure
[14:23] <EuropracBHIT> Yes.
[14:24] <pfctdayelise> My name's Brianna, user:pfctdayelise, last year of my BA/BSc (Chinese, maths) at Melb Uni, admin on commons where I spend a lot of time, no real focus to my edits on en:, I also went to the Melb meetup.
[14:25] <EuropracBHIT> So on Commons you'd be dealing with especially Australian images and Australian sounds, because I know you're very interested in music.
[14:25] <pfctdayelise> I am, but music samples are generally not "free" enough - they need to be uploaded locally to en
[14:25] <EuropracBHIT> That's a bit of a worry.
[14:25] <EuropracBHIT> And there's nothing we can do about it, is there?
[14:26] <pfctdayelise> ? what are you concerned about? that has been the situation for a long time
[14:26] <bainer> other than buy the rights to the sounds and then release them under GFDL
[14:26] <EuropracBHIT> Could Wikimedia Australia really do such a thing?
[14:26] <enochlau> $$$
[14:26] <pfctdayelise> and no, at commons I deal with all kinds of images, no emphasis on Australian ones except sometimes I look some up to add to articles
[14:26] <EuropracBHIT> ... $$$ and how to get it.
[14:26] <bainer> EuropracBHIT: if we had enough money to waste, yes
[14:27] <enochlau> actually, asking nicely sometimes gets you places
[14:27] <Gunzelette> How about recording new sound effects?
[14:27] <EuropracBHIT> Who would we have to ask nicely?
[14:27] <EuropracBHIT> The record companies? The artists?
[14:27] <enochlau> whoever copyright owner is
[14:27] <enochlau> usually recor company
[14:27] <pfctdayelise> why would we want to store music samples at commons?! keeping them at en because of this is standard practice.
[14:28] <pfctdayelise> who's up next for intros?
[14:28] <EuropracBHIT> I see. .en might be too big or small for our needs, so you would need something more specialised.
[14:28] <Gunzelette> I'll go if you like?
[14:28] <enochlau> angela!
[14:28] <enochlau> or you
[14:28] <enochlau> :)
[14:28] <Angela> I'm Angela Beesley. I started editing Wikipedia in February 2003. I've been on the Board of the Wikimedia Foundation since June 2004 and I also run http://wikicities.com. I'm originally from England, but I've been in Melbourne (with Tim Starling) since December 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Angela
[14:28] <EuropracBHIT> Wow. "With" Tim Starling; in what sense?
[14:29] <EuropracBHIT> I'd been wondering why you were in Australia.
[14:29] <TimStarling> in the, um, kissing and hugging sense
[14:29] <Angela> :)
[14:29] <pfctdayelise> lol
[14:29] <EuropracBHIT> That's nice.
[14:29] <enochlau> :)
[14:29] <EuropracBHIT> I did think it was a professional partnership.
[14:30] <bainer> who's next then?
[14:30] <enochlau> andrew is it?
[14:31] <EuropracBHIT> Well he did say he drank ... :0
[14:31] <Gunzelette> Hi, I'm AJ
[14:31] <Gunzelette> That indeed I do
[14:31] <EuropracBHIT> What else do you ... do?
[14:32] <EuropracBHIT> (On the Wikipedia ... I don't want anyone to get filthy ideas ...)
[14:32] <Gunzelette> I'm currently doing BA/Hons in Politics
[14:32] <EuropracBHIT> At which university? Not that it matters ...
[14:32] <Gunzelette> I've started a number of Wikipedia articles (including WikiProject Gender Studies, a range of articles on public transport...
[14:32] <Gunzelette> ...Latrobe in Bundoora
[14:33] <EuropracBHIT> I was riding past La Trobe a few days ago, as part of my holiday.
[14:33] <enochlau> am i the only sydney person here? :S
[14:33] <EuropracBHIT> It looks like there's some nice space here.
[14:33] <EuropracBHIT> No, if Nathan's here, he's another Sydney person.
[14:33] <enochlau> ah ok
[14:33] <EuropracBHIT> There, I meant, there.
[14:33] <EuropracBHIT> At La Trobe.
[14:34] <Gunzelette> currently working on a thesis on community organisations / co-ops / social capital
[14:34] <EuropracBHIT> The place where we are eventually ... will have to be public transport accessible. Yes, someone in England is doing the same thing with Wikimedia UK.
[14:34] <EuropracBHIT> Cormac his name is.
[14:34] <EuropracBHIT> How is your thesis coming along?
[14:35] <Gunzelette> procrastinatingly
[14:35] <EuropracBHIT> I suspected so.
[14:35] <Gunzelette> j/k I've done a heap of research for it
[14:35] <EuropracBHIT> Will you be able to use that research to help us?
[14:36] <Gunzelette> There's a few books and the like that I've come across that'll probably be of use...
[14:36] <EuropracBHIT> Such as? Give references, so we can look them up.
[14:36] <EuropracBHIT> Do you think Wikimedia Australia needs a library? Only a tiny one.
[14:36] <Gunzelette> I think I recomended Mark Lyon's "Third Sector" on the board...
[14:36] <enochlau> nah no need for library: plenty of other libraries we can use
[14:37] <EuropracBHIT> I don't remember that. Thank you. Does it cover Corporate Social Responsibility?
[14:37] <Gunzelette> It does, hold on, I'll just fetch it for you...
[14:37] <EuropracBHIT> I don't know that I read it, Third Sector, I mean. Thanks!
[14:37] <bainer> while we wait for that, is there anyone else who needs introducing?
[14:38] <enochlau> tim?
[14:38] <EuropracBHIT> I remember that I only just got myself an Inter-Library card for this year.
[14:39] <EuropracBHIT> So I can do some looking-up as well as the Blake Critical Essay which they let me do for Special Consideration.
[14:39] <Gunzelette> Lyons, Mark, "Third Sector: The Contribution of Nonprofit and Cooperative Enterprises in Australia"
[14:39] * Gunzelette is now known as AmishThrasher
[14:39] <EuropracBHIT> Hi. Enoch isn't the only Sydney person.
[14:39] <enochlau> yep, this is daniel
[14:39] <EuropracBHIT> Where would I find it under Dewey?
[14:39] <jogloran> Hi.
[14:39] <EuropracBHIT> Or the Library of Congress?
[14:39] <bainer> jogloran: hello
[14:40] <EuropracBHIT> Hello jogloran.
[14:40] <jogloran> Thank you, thank you.
[14:40] <EuropracBHIT> Why are you here?
[14:40] <jogloran> I'm an Australian wikipedia user.
[14:40] <EuropracBHIT> I understand that. Were you at the Sydney meetup?
[14:40] <enochlau> a friend of mine, thought he might be interested in joining in
[14:40] <EuropracBHIT> All right. I don't mean to be rude ...
[14:41] <EuropracBHIT> What kind of "joining in"?
[14:41] <enochlau> in this discussion
[14:41] <jogloran> Am I not allowed to listen in on the discussion?
[14:41] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, you're allowed.
[14:41] <enochlau> of course you can :P it's an open channel
[14:41] <jogloran> Very well.
[14:41] <EuropracBHIT> And you can learn.
[14:41] <bainer> I think we've covered the introductions now then
[14:41] <enochlau> alright shall we start the meeting now?
[14:41] <enochlau> cool
[14:42] <EuropracBHIT> Yes.
[14:42] <bainer> ok, the question we were looking at before is whether to have a national chapter of chapters in each state
[14:42] <bainer> *or
[14:42] <enochlau> i think having state chapters would make it so much *easier*, but not more *feasible*
[14:42] <enochlau> if you know what i mean
[14:43] <bainer> yes
[14:43] <Angela> to extend my queston, if there's just one, how will we deal with people being so far apart from each other in terms of organising meetings and also in deciding where to incorporate?
[14:43] <EuropracBHIT> I don't know.
[14:43] <enochlau> where to incorporate shouldnt matter, it's just a paperwork thing isnt it?
[14:44] <EuropracBHIT> And it creates an ... impression ... of the organisation. If it's an eastern states thing, Adelaideans and Perthians might not want to join.
[14:44] <bainer> enochlau: it depends what structure we pick
[14:44] <Angela> yes, although some people were talking about having a physical office (which I don't think we need yet)
[14:44] <bainer> all we need is a mailing address which is not a PO box
[14:44] <enochlau> agreed, and i think most sydney wikipedians agree with me
[14:44] <Angela> Personnaly, I think having multiple chapters is definitely something to consider for the future, but there aren't enough people involved to do that right now.
[14:44] <enochlau> yep
[14:44] <bainer> in terms of AGMs, we don't have to be physically there, we can have electronic communicating
[14:44] <EuropracBHIT> I was one of the ones that talked about a physical office ... there are only a dozen of us.
[14:45] <EuropracBHIT> Which is what I was going to say, we could IRC like this.
[14:45] <EuropracBHIT> and talk on the board.
[14:45] <enochlau> true for your regular metings that's fine
[14:45] <enochlau> but for AGMs and elections
[14:45] <EuropracBHIT> But at one point or another we have to see each other's face.
[14:45] <enochlau> the understanding is that you need to be physically there to participate in the discussion
[14:45] <Angela> are there legal requirements in any states for there to be physical meetings?
[14:45] <EuropracBHIT> Or you could have a proxy if you absolutely couldn't come.
[14:46] <EuropracBHIT> I *think* it's convention, but I never looked more deeply into the matter.
[14:46] <AmishThrasher> Also, how will votes be lodged at the meeting, do they have to be paper?
[14:46] <bainer> angela: not sure about state law, but federal law permits multiple meetings linked by technology
[14:46] <EuropracBHIT> And New South Wales and Victorian law wouldn't be essentially different in this matter.
[14:47] <EuropracBHIT> Like secret ballot, AmishThrasher?
[14:47] <enochlau> there's the problem of identification
[14:47] <enochlau> who can guarantee that im actually enoch right now?
[14:47] <EuropracBHIT> What about a picture card? Trace-route I suppose.
[14:47] <bainer> well yes, IRC isn't secure enough for AGMs
[14:47] <EuropracBHIT> All the searching things are expensive. TRUST or assume good faith, but that isn't good enough legally.
[14:48] <EuropracBHIT> I know you didn't meet me and you don't know that I am who I say I am.
[14:48] <EuropracBHIT> But maybe you could go to Box Hill Institute and find me.
[14:48] <AmishThrasher> Because - assuming paper ballots are no problem - we could have a situation where all votes are logged online (username / password), so those attending the meeting vote on some PCs in the lobby, while those who can't attend do so over the net
[14:48] <EuropracBHIT> That's a good idea.
[14:49] <enochlau> that's not a bad idea
[14:49] <EuropracBHIT> Let's not get too paranoid!
[14:49] <enochlau> for people in other states to participate in discussions, there could be someone aggregating comments over IRC and read them out?
[14:49] <AmishThrasher> ...and then make sure that, on any debate, both sides lodge their points online in the week before (or something along those lines)
[14:49] <EuropracBHIT> I'll be willing to work with that.
[14:50] <EuropracBHIT> Could you explain the situation a little more, where we would have to do this?
[14:50] <EuropracBHIT> Like a common decision making process?
[14:50] <EuropracBHIT> Is this like a consensus judgement?
[14:50] <EuropracBHIT> Or do we all go on our consciences?
[14:50] <enochlau> all resolutions will have to be by vote wont they?
[14:50] <bainer> EuropracBHIT: debate and discussion could be had on-wiki, for example, before the actual meeting would be conducted by post
[14:51] <EuropracBHIT> Fair enough. I was missing that crucial point.
[14:51] <AmishThrasher> Do we want consensus decisionmaking?
[14:51] <pfctdayelise> or on mailing list
[14:51] <enochlau> i think in the real world with organisations and legal stuff, i think you have to count hard votes don't u?
[14:51] <bainer> proxy voting is also allowed, and also we can set up rules for this in a constitution
[14:51] <enochlau> yep definitely
[14:51] <EuropracBHIT> On certain important non-compromisable points, yes. On other points, no. I mean, the big Wikipedia seems to work well without it. Angela, Tim, could you say how it works?
[14:51] <EuropracBHIT> COnstitution. I'm working very slowly on the constitution. There are some holes in there, obviously.
[14:52] <Angela> Since there's a small board, we tend to go with consensus decisions rather than votes, but sometimes voting is quicker, and we have a separate wiki were that takes place.
[14:52] <EuropracBHIT> I guess I could extrapolate ... and that's a private wiki?
[14:52] <Angela> Yes.
[14:52] <AmishThrasher> brb
[14:52] * AmishThrasher is now known as AmishAway
[14:52] <EuropracBHIT> Like when you had the travel situation with Delphine?
[14:53] <Angela> Nom we didn't vote on that.
[14:53] <enochlau> but back to the original question: state based or national based?
[14:53] <EuropracBHIT> I still think it should be based nationally. I would prefer it so.
[14:53] <EuropracBHIT> It's a shame we don't have anyone interested. National based or Melbourne based.
[14:53] <EuropracBHIT> That is in Canberra, I mean.
[14:54] <EuropracBHIT> I mean, to have it in Melbourne means that the preponderance of power is concentrated there ... and techie power too.
[14:54] <enochlau> in think a national one makes more sense, but ther'es always the issue of concentrantion of power
[14:54] <enochlau> in one state, and wikimedians in ohter states are going to disagree
[14:55] <bainer> I think we should set up as a company, that way we don't need to worry about setting up in one state or another
[14:55] <enochlau> so maybe, structurally, it's a national organisation, but in terms of day to day activities, where possible, organise it on a state level?
[14:55] <EuropracBHIT> I know! Work out a reasonable compromise. Well, Rome wasn't built in a day.
[14:55] <EuropracBHIT> I agree.
[14:55] <EuropracBHIT> And the company is good for other reasons too.
[14:55] <enochlau> bainer: so companies are set up not in a particular state?
[14:55] <TimStarling> corporations are always national in australia
[14:56] <bainer> enochlau: the only state specific thing is a postal address
[14:56] <enochlau> oh, but would that affect, say, tax deductibility?
[14:56] <TimStarling> right
[14:56] <TimStarling> the question is where you want to put the office
[14:56] <TimStarling> or P.O. box
[14:56] <EuropracBHIT> It doesn't I don't think.
[14:56] <bainer> TimStarling: the postal address for a company can't be a PO Box
[14:57] <EuropracBHIT> And THAT is a vexed question.
[14:57] <enochlau> someone's house i suppose?
[14:57] <EuropracBHIT> So we have to have somebody's house or a neighbourhood house.
[14:57] <bainer> but there's no need for an office either, just someone's house
[14:57] <enochlau> or a university department?
[14:57] <EuropracBHIT> I like that idea, Enoch.
[14:57] <pfctdayelise> ...but people graduate.
[14:57] <enochlau> people might be a little too uncomfortable with all the correspondence going straight into private hands
[14:57] <EuropracBHIT> I would rather the uni department, it's respectable and professional. Who do we talk to?
[14:57] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, that's my problem too.
[14:58] <EuropracBHIT> Good point about graduation.
[14:58] <EuropracBHIT> What about a rotating office?
[14:58] * AmishAway is now known as AmishThrasher
[14:58] <enochlau> ask the computer science departments of various universities
[14:58] <EuropracBHIT> Or the clubs department?
[14:58] <enochlau> doesnt matter about graduation, the arrangement can be made to last beyond a student
[14:58] <EuropracBHIT> Amish, is the La Trobe one friendly? How, Enoch?
[14:58] <enochlau> hmmm clubs at usyd at least are handled by the student union
[14:59] <pfctdayelise> ... don't forget VSU comes into effect mid-this year.
[14:59] <EuropracBHIT> I think we discussed this in January and people were concerned about VSU.
[14:59] <bainer> I'm sure there are private companies which operate mailboxes
[14:59] <enochlau> as in, wikimedia australia has an arrangement with the university department, not the student having an arrangement
[14:59] <EuropracBHIT> So we'd better make a solid decision.
[14:59] <enochlau> then we can use them as a mailing address
[14:59] <EuropracBHIT> I know Monash has lots of computers, and it's close to me and AmishThrasher.
[15:00] <enochlau> this is very much a hypothetical, we'd need to approach some of them and find out what they're willing to commit to
[15:01] <pfctdayelise> TBH I don't think it matters if the postal add is someone's home. we just give that to the ATO. everyone else, we give the PO box.
[15:01] <enochlau> true
[15:01] <bainer> I'll need to check, but I think private mailbags are allowed even though PO boxes aren't
[15:01] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, and who does the approaching?
[15:01] <EuropracBHIT> Let's try the mailbag.
[15:02] <AmishThrasher> Would we want to have a secretary (or similar position) for WMA and - for mail from the ATO - letters get sent there, while for everything else we have a PO Box / mailbag?
[15:02] <EuropracBHIT> I saw on the PO form and I wasn't sure about the mailbag at first.
[15:02] <EuropracBHIT> Good idea, Amish ...
[15:02] <EuropracBHIT> Now it become an issue of who is willing.
[15:02] <enochlau> this leads us onto the next issue - management structure
[15:03] <enochlau> and elections etc
[15:03] <EuropracBHIT> Confession: management talk is all gobbledygook to me.
[15:03] <EuropracBHIT> I can understand president, secretary, treasurer and so forth ...
[15:04] <bainer> we can set up whatever positions we like in our constitution
[15:04] <bainer> the legal requirements as to which positions we need depend on the business structure we use
[15:04] <EuropracBHIT> What positions do we like? More specifically, what do we need? How do we sort out that? Say we were a company ...
[15:05] <bainer> I would prefer setting up as a company - the only required position would be a director
[15:05] <EuropracBHIT> Isn't there a restriction on how many directors can be?
[15:05] <AmishThrasher> Generally - for both companies and charities, it's around 8 - 12
[15:05] <AmishThrasher> but it depends
[15:06] <EuropracBHIT> Like: two's company, three's a crowd ...
[15:06] <EuropracBHIT> I see, AmishThrasher.
[15:06] <enochlau> lol i would think that it'd depend on the size of the thing wouldn' it?
[15:06] <enochlau> 8 is everywhere here
[15:06] <EuropracBHIT> Then do 8.
[15:06] <Angela> Wikimedia UK went with the roles of president, secretary, treasurer, membership and press. Having at least president, secretary, and treasurer seems most common, with additional roles as needed.
[15:06] <AmishThrasher> What officers we would need would also depend on what structure we want to use
[15:06] <EuropracBHIT> Among the chapters already?
[15:07] <EuropracBHIT> Who was the membership person?
[15:07] <enochlau> so the pres, secretary, tres etc... those were the directors so to speak?
[15:07] <EuropracBHIT> (It seems a bit ambigious to me).
[15:07] <bainer> we wouldn't necessarily make them directors
[15:07] <AmishThrasher> If we use a national structure with branches in each state, it may be worthwhile having recognised branch secretaries
[15:07] <EuropracBHIT> Some people aren't suited to be directors.
[15:07] <bainer> they would just be office bearers, the offices described by a constitiuton
[15:07] <EuropracBHIT> Branch secretaries would be good.
[15:08] <enochlau> so in a company, you typically have office bearers, and a separate board of directors?
[15:08] <EuropracBHIT> And I might need another pair of hands with this constitution.
[15:08] <EuropracBHIT> I think so, that's the way the most of the charities I know go about it.
[15:08] <AmishThrasher> Generally, in a company, the board of directors is separate to the management
[15:08] <EuropracBHIT> Good. No conflict of interest then.
[15:09] <AmishThrasher> the directors represent the members / shareholders / etc; the management run things day to day
[15:09] <enochlau> i see
[15:09] <EuropracBHIT> Who's the other bainer? I see.
[15:09] <bainer_> just a nick collision
[15:09] * bainer_ is now known as bainer
[15:09] <EuropracBHIT> Ugh. I hate it when that happens.
[15:09] <EuropracBHIT> So as an ordinary Wikipedian, the directors represent us.
[15:10] <EuropracBHIT> And then we talk to the management if we want to join?
[15:10] <EuropracBHIT> Specifically the branch secretary?
[15:10] <bainer> the director(s) would be the ones doing all the legal and financial business with ASIC, whereas the office bearers would do all the public stuff
[15:10] <enochlau> well why dont we work out what kind of activities need to be done at a state level/national level?
[15:10] <enochlau> for example, press, that would probably be a national role
[15:11] <enochlau> yet community meetings would be a state role?
[15:11] <EuropracBHIT> You'd have to contact, say the IT sections, of the Australian and the Age and the Herald-Sun.
[15:11] <EuropracBHIT> You're right, Enoch.
[15:11] <AmishThrasher> Weekly / monthly meetings would be state
[15:11] <EuropracBHIT> We'd want to know what the other states were doing.
[15:11] <enochlau> speaking of weekly/monthly meetings, is that waaaay too often?
[15:12] <EuropracBHIT> No.
[15:12] <pfctdayelise> weekly:yes!
[15:12] <AmishThrasher> Co-ordination would be national
[15:12] <enochlau> at the sydney meetup, we decided that every 3 months was the most we wanted to see eac other
[15:12] <Angela> Weekly sounds too often.
[15:12] <EuropracBHIT> Would fortnightly or monthly be good?
[15:12] <enochlau> monthly at the most frequent i'd say
[15:12] <EuropracBHIT> That would mean 5 meetings during term-time.
[15:12] <enochlau> remember that we can do a lot of stuff online
[15:12] <pfctdayelise> I mean we don't even know what our are activities are going to be (do we?), so what will we be discussing?
[15:12] <EuropracBHIT> Thank goodness!
[15:12] <Angela> Monthly for official meetings seems more than enough. You can always talk informally in between. It's not like the meeting is the only chance for communication.
[15:13] <bainer> pfctdayelise: we can follow some of the other chapters on that
[15:13] <EuropracBHIT> We could have a Wiki sausage sizzle.
[15:13] <AmishThrasher> ...most computer user groups go for monthly meetings
[15:13] <bainer> that's a good question actually - what would the chapter do?
[15:13] <EuropracBHIT> Like the Apple Users Society of Melbourne, which I belonged to for a little while between 1994 and 1997.
[15:13] <enochlau> apart from being a tax deductibile palce where i can put my hard earned cash :)
[15:14] <EuropracBHIT> And there were special interest groups within that.
[15:14] <AmishThrasher> ...same with the Amiga Users Group :P
[15:14] <enochlau> that's one thing pointed out at the sydney meetup: we couldn't identify many advantages of having an organisation at all
[15:14] <EuropracBHIT> And it's a place where we belong/band together and represent ourselves to the larger Foundation.
[15:14] <EuropracBHIT> That's one MAJOR advantage I can see ... Be the public face of Wikimedia in Australia for Australians.
[15:14] <enochlau> yes, but that's not exactly a concrete reason
[15:15] <EuropracBHIT> That's true.
[15:15] <enochlau> true, but iwas more after... things that members can do
[15:15] <AmishThrasher> Regular face-to-face co-ordination would probably be a big reason for it
[15:15] <enochlau> the sydney crowd seems to disagree on that point
[15:15] <EuropracBHIT> Maybe give tips and advice for people ... iindividuals and organisations ... like a Wiki help line?
[15:15] <enochlau> we seem to believe that online coordination via the talk pages of wkipedi are sufficient
[15:15] <EuropracBHIT> (That means telephone/online expenses!)
[15:16] <bainer> we could buy some squids. would this be a good idea Tim?
[15:16] <EuropracBHIT> Well, many of us have been on the Wikipedia for some years, and we've been more isolated than co-ordinated.
[15:16] <pfctdayelise> hm, I seem to be out on a limb here, but to me a major reason for wikimedia-au is still tax deductible donations. (and they don't seem easy to get, so... )
[15:16] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, Tim, would it be a good idea?
[15:16] <TimStarling> we could do
[15:16] <bainer> pfctdayelise: tax deductible donations is a very big thing
[15:16] <EuropracBHIT> Then it would load easier and faster, which is a concrete benefit.
[15:16] <enochlau> but do we then expose ourself to liabilities like the german group did?
[15:17] <TimStarling> we had some inquiries about 6 months ago from a potential donor in Australia, but it didn't come through
[15:17] <enochlau> as in, if there's something to sue in australia, they'll sue it
[15:17] <EuropracBHIT> Then we cop it on the chin,
[15:17] <TimStarling> so we could buy a few servers instead
[15:17] <EuropracBHIT> Or borrow them from a friendly open-source organisation.
[15:18] <AmishThrasher> Computerbank?
[15:18] <enochlau> i dunno if squids are really all that necessary
[15:18] <EuropracBHIT> You'd be the best person to advise on borrowing vs. buying ...
[15:18] <enochlau> it's not as if wikipedia access from aust is slow
[15:18] <EuropracBHIT> It is if somebody has dial-up which is in regional areas. Squids would be a help there.
[15:18] <pfctdayelise> I agree with enochlau, not a priority
[15:19] <EuropracBHIT> What is a priority, then?
[15:19] <enochlau> EuropracBHIT: that doesn't make sense, the bottleneck is their ISP, not wikimedia servers
[15:19] <TimStarling> a local squid cluster would save you 200ms per request, roughly
[15:19] <EuropracBHIT> How foolish of me ... really significant, isn't it?
[15:19] <enochlau> one thing pointed out at the sydney meeting is that ISPs often cache content anyway
[15:19] <enochlau> so it's a moot point
[15:20] <TimStarling> the other possibility is getting an ISP to donate a squid to us
[15:20] <EuropracBHIT> Who would do that?
[15:20] <TimStarling> or just dedicate one to us
[15:20] <EuropracBHIT> Don't you feel so loved?
[15:20] <TimStarling> well, like enochlau says, they already cache content
[15:20] <EuropracBHIT> And this sort of gives them another reason to do so.
[15:20] <TimStarling> because that saves them money on transit bandwidth
[15:21] <EuropracBHIT> So it's in their self-interest to do so.
[15:21] <TimStarling> but they can't cache wikipedia content because they're not subscribed to our purge stream
[15:21] <TimStarling> yes
[15:21] <pfctdayelise> priority: deciding why we want to do this, what the benefits are. deciding if it's indeed worth deciding. deciding what form we will take that best matches our needs and the government's (or whatever legalese requirements etc)
[15:21] <bainer> probably the biggest thing is getting DGR status, so people can tax-deduct their Wikimedia donations
[15:21] <enochlau> ok the question then is
[15:21] <enochlau> can this money be sent to the US organisation?
[15:21] <TimStarling> wikimedia australia donations maybe
[15:21] <bainer> that's the big question
[15:22] <TimStarling> sending it to the US would violate the "in australia" condition
[15:22] <pfctdayelise> DGR status would mean we (wikimedia au) have to use the money for our projects
[15:22] <pfctdayelise> yeah
[15:22] <enochlau> >.<
[15:22] <TimStarling> and the US isn't a developing country, so you can't use that exception
[15:22] <EuropracBHIT> I would prefer we did this anyway, and not depend on the US organisation or anyone else.
[15:22] <enochlau> it's funny though, the whole idea of wikimedia aust came out of the recent donation requests
[15:23] <EuropracBHIT> I don't think any Wikimedia organisations are in developing countries. Maybe we could help Papua New Guinea and East Timor and others all around.
[15:23] <enochlau> when aussie wikipedians were wondering if they could get it taxed deducted
[15:23] <EuropracBHIT> Now we're just hitting our heads against a wall!
[15:23] <TimStarling> if you're going to accept donations, you have to have something useful in mind that you can spend money on
[15:23] <AmishThrasher> Also, does sending donations to Wikimedia US involve Wikimedia Australia doing foreign exchange?
[15:24] <EuropracBHIT> Maybe making T-shirts and CD-Roms and talking to schools and such.
[15:24] <enochlau> but preferably t shirts and cds are profitable
[15:24] <EuropracBHIT> But all this sounds terribly profit-orientated.
[15:24] <enochlau> uh huh
[15:24] <pfctdayelise> co-ordinating wiki sessions with 3rd age uni, whatever they're called. t-shirts?!
[15:25] <enochlau> the education argument has come up before, but what real interest is there?
[15:25] <EuropracBHIT> Good idea. Now you're talking. We should have followed up on that contact, and set a date to do so next time.
[15:25] <AmishThrasher> And if we can't send donations to the US, and the risk of getting sued (as Wikimedia Germany did recently), might it be better to have an "Australian Wikimedia Users Group" rather than an Australian chapter?
[15:25] <EuropracBHIT> Lots of educators are looking at wikis for their students.
[15:25] <EuropracBHIT> User Groups are something people can understand and root for.
[15:25] <enochlau> legally, what are users groups?
[15:25] <EuropracBHIT> But really it's all on a spotty and individual level. They're incorporated associations.
[15:26] <bainer> Wikimedia UK put together a list of things they might do: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Possible_projects_of_Wikimedia_UK
[15:26] <EuropracBHIT> Like AUSOM and the Amiga Group.
[15:26] <EuropracBHIT> Thanks for the project list.
[15:26] <pfctdayelise> OK, I have to go now, but I look forward to reading the logs. Good luck everyone!
[15:26] <EuropracBHIT> Bye Brianna!
[15:26] <AmishThrasher> c-ya brianna!
[15:27] <EuropracBHIT> This meeting is nearly 90 minutes long, isn't it?
[15:27] <enochlau> i'd say wind it up at 4pm AEDT
[15:27] <TimStarling> I think a user group structure would be a good idea
[15:27] <AmishThrasher> ...or might it be better to start as a Users Group recognised by Wikimedia (USA) and then build from there?
[15:27] <enochlau> i.e. half an hour
[15:27] <AmishThrasher> enoc: agreed
[15:27] <EuropracBHIT> What mechanisms do they have for recognising users groups?
[15:28] <EuropracBHIT> Are they more formal or more informal?
[15:28] <TimStarling> distributing wikipedia in australia as-is is probably illegal anyway, because of fair use
[15:28] <EuropracBHIT> They've never had to do this before.
[15:28] <enochlau> TimStarling: how are the german guys doing it then? do they strip all the fair use material out?
[15:28] <AmishThrasher> good point bron
[15:28] <TimStarling> libel laws in Australia favour the plaintiff, like in germany
[15:28] <TimStarling> the german wikipedia doesn't have fair use material
[15:28] <enochlau> yeh so cant we do the same?
[15:28] <Angela> The german wikipedia isn't hosted in germany.
[15:29] <EuropracBHIT> It's hosted in Florida like everything else.
[15:29] <AmishThrasher> Also the German Wikipedia is in German, rather than the main English language Wikipedia
[15:29] <EuropracBHIT> Pretty soon everyone will be wanting Wikimedia material in their own country.
[15:29] * bainer_ is now known as bainer
[15:29] <EuropracBHIT> And the global village will want to implode on itself.
[15:29] <EuropracBHIT> That collision again!
[15:29] <TimStarling> if my understanding of german wikipedia policy is correct, we could distribute the german wikipedia in australia, but not the english wikipedia
[15:30] <AmishThrasher> ...and it probably wouldn't be worthwhile haviing an Australian English Wikipedia
[15:30] <Angela> If you want to print it for sale in Australia, you'd probably want to remove the fair use stuff.
[15:30] <EuropracBHIT> Then we could work it into the LOTE curriculum and the VELS.
[15:30] <TimStarling> we could distribute the english wikipedia without the fair use pictures
[15:30] <EuropracBHIT> A Wiktionary would be worthwhile ... and the other Wiki projects like Wikibooks.
[15:30] <EuropracBHIT> It's not just Wikipedia though, is it?
[15:30] <AmishThrasher> the only thing is that having an Australian Wikibook would be worthwhile
[15:30] <enochlau> i think from a practical point of view, distributing wikipedia isn't really worth it? the market in australia is small remember
[15:30] <enochlau> perhaps the US market should try that first
[15:30] <AmishThrasher> work to VCAA standards and such
[15:31] <TimStarling> well, there's no US chapter yet
[15:31] <AmishThrasher> (VCAA still runs the VCE in Victoria, right?)
[15:31] <EuropracBHIT> 20 million ... perhaps 10 million would be intereted if we look at the families and households.
[15:31] <EuropracBHIT> They do. And the lower levels. And VCAL.
[15:31] <Angela> there are plans for one - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_United_States_of_America
[15:31] <EuropracBHIT> So you could have twelve years of a Wiki education, potentially.
[15:31] <EuropracBHIT> Or a wiki-supplemented education, more precisely.
[15:32] <EuropracBHIT> How far have those plans gone?
[15:32] <enochlau> yes true, but what incentives are there for teachers to use wiki material?
[15:32] <EuropracBHIT> That they can change everything and fix mistakes, and update things quickly.
[15:32] <enochlau> i can imagine some school principles insisting they still buy textbooks, because it's "trust worthy"
[15:32] <bainer> the real world is intervening now, so I have to leave - I've taken logs this far, but if someone else is too, can they post the end on meta
[15:32] <EuropracBHIT> The same incentives everyone else does. But books aren't any more intrinstically trust-worthy.
[15:32] <AmishThrasher> c-ya Bainer
[15:32] <enochlau> cya
[15:32] <EuropracBHIT> than any other media.
[15:32] <enochlau> can someone please log?
[15:33] <EuropracBHIT> Bye Bainer.
[15:33] <bainer> someone turn on logging now then
[15:33] <AmishThrasher> is this being logged?
[15:33] <EuropracBHIT> I'll do my best by the end.
[15:33] <enochlau> ok thanks
[15:33] <bainer> bye
[15:33] <EuropracBHIT> When we wrap up the meeting, I'll log everything. Honestly, I did think Tim, Angela or Natterer would do it.
[15:33] <Angela> Don't worry. I have a log.
[15:33] <EuropracBHIT> And isn't it an issue of cut and paste?
[15:33] <enochlau> cool
[15:34] <AmishThrasher> Excellent :)
[15:34] <EuropracBHIT> I'm relieved!
[15:34] <enochlau> with the schools, you say that "they" can change it when they want
[15:34] <enochlau> most schools don't have the resources to do so
[15:34] <EuropracBHIT> Who will type up the notes.
[15:34] <EuropracBHIT> All they need is a computer and a wiki server?
[15:34] <AmishThrasher> BTW, Bron, did you get my /msg earlier (with the reference for the Lyons book?)
[15:34] <EuropracBHIT> I did.
[15:34] <EuropracBHIT> That was in whisper though. So if anyone else wants it...I'd lost the context by that time.
[15:34] <enochlau> but that isn't our concern is it? we should be more about promoting what's already there
[15:34] <enochlau> in terms of the material on wp, and wikibooks
[15:35] <enochlau> getting schools to set up their own internal wiki
[15:35] <enochlau> - i can't imagine that being a high priority
[15:35] <EuropracBHIT> And quite rightly too.
[15:35] <AmishThrasher> Also, as I pointed out on Talk, a lot of our work (I would imagine) would be co-ordinated with other groups...
[15:35] <EuropracBHIT> It's what's already being done too, in quite a few schools, across Australia.
[15:36] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, focus on that and co-ordinate and network wherever we can.
[15:36] <enochlau> what's being done, sorry?
[15:36] <AmishThrasher> ...which means P&C's, PTAs, etc...
[15:36] <EuropracBHIT> There's this guy named Graham Wegner in South Australia, he talks about it. http://gwegner.wordpress.com
[15:36] <EuropracBHIT> I mean gwegner.edublogs.com
[15:37] <EuropracBHIT> http://gwegner.edublogs.org. Are any of you guys familar with Edublogs?
[15:37] <enochlau> nope
[15:37] <AmishThrasher> neither
[15:37] <EuropracBHIT> Well, it's a service that students and teachers can use to create their own blogs, and by extension, reach out into the infosphere.
[15:37] <enochlau> i see
[15:37] <AmishThrasher> is edublogs a nonprofit?
[15:37] <EuropracBHIT> It's created by an American called James Farmer. I only got to know of it a few months ago, but I love it!
[15:38] <EuropracBHIT> I believe so.
[15:38] <EuropracBHIT> I would HOPE so.
[15:38] <EuropracBHIT> They're really part of incsub.org so we'll find out there.
[15:38] <AmishThrasher> incsub?
[15:39] <EuropracBHIT> www.incsub.org
[15:39] <EuropracBHIT> Look under their about page.
[15:39] * AmishThrasher is now known as Gunzelette
[15:39] <enochlau> is there anything else left to discuss?
[15:39] <enochlau> otherwise im popping off
[15:39] <enochlau> angela's right - at 90 mins the convo goes awry :P
[15:39] <Gunzelette> have we covered everything on the agenda?
[15:39] <enochlau> not all, but sufficient
[15:39] <enochlau> actually what about $$$
[15:40] <enochlau> where do we get it?
[15:40] <EuropracBHIT> I wouldn't have anticipated discussing blogs. I can't get to it just now.
[15:40] <Gunzelette> I would imagine membership dues primarily
[15:40] <EuropracBHIT> Ask everyone to pay a basic fee?
[15:40] <enochlau> that's a problem i think
[15:40] <enochlau> there's no real *benefit* to members
[15:40] <EuropracBHIT> But there's no real cost to them either.
[15:40] <EuropracBHIT> So it's a zero-sum game.
[15:40] <enochlau> but if u charge a nominal amount
[15:40] <enochlau> like $2
[15:40] <enochlau> thats not goign to cover expensese
[15:41] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, the good old gold coin ...
[15:41] <EuropracBHIT> Let's make a budget and see what does cover expense.
[15:41] <enochlau> on the other hand, if you charge $20, you really need to provide $20 worth of value
[15:41] <EuropracBHIT> And get a handle on what said expenses are. So we need to find something between $2 and $20.
[15:41] <Angela> If the aim is to raise money for projects in Australia, something more than $2 is needed.
[15:41] <EuropracBHIT> $5? $10? Maybe?
[15:42] <Gunzelette> Like, if you made it $30 (conveniently what CompuetBank charges for hall hire) then its 1 member to 1 monthly meeting
[15:42] <Angela> Currently the membership fee for Wikimedia Deutschland is 24 € each year for individuals (reduced rate is 12 €) and 100 € each year for corporate members. The fees for the French chapter are 35 € each year, and 15 € for students, unemployed, etc.
[15:42] <Angela> this is the FAQ - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Local_chapter_FAQ
[15:42] <Gunzelette> ...add perhaps a newsletter?
[15:42] <EuropracBHIT> Thank you for letting us see the FAQ.
[15:42] <EuropracBHIT> Like the Quarto.
[15:42] <enochlau> Angela: do they do much fundraising elsewhere?
[15:42] <EuropracBHIT> But for Australians. It's something to let people know what we're doing.
[15:42] <Angela> They collect donations during the fundraising drives.
[15:43] <Angela> 24 € is $39 by the way.
[15:43] <EuropracBHIT> I do know something about desktop publishing, so could get something up quickly.
[15:43] <enochlau> wahhh
[15:43] <EuropracBHIT> Then round it to $40 or reduce to $35. $30 hire and $5 something else.
[15:43] <EuropracBHIT> And the something else can be like a value-added tip.
[15:44] <Gunzelette> Question: would members be (for the purposes of voting) those who paid the due, or all Wikimedia editors in Australia?
[15:44] <enochlau> i can't imagine myself paying $30 for a newsletter
[15:44] <enochlau> it'll have to be members of the organisation, i.e. those who pay
[15:44] <EuropracBHIT> I would be willing to pay something in the $15-$30 charge. I meant the $5 for the something else, which would include a newsletter.
[15:44] <Angela> The money is to support the chapter's work in Australia, not just for a newsletter.
[15:45] <EuropracBHIT> What about a Wikimedia Australia showbag?
[15:45] <EuropracBHIT> That we could sell at the Royal Melbourne Show and other shows?
[15:45] <EuropracBHIT> Then people would recognise us.
[15:45] <enochlau> true, but you need some genuine value in being a member, instead of it being a forced donation
[15:45] <Gunzelette> The big advantage of having regular meetings from launch day is that you could beat up some PR for it
[15:46] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, like press releases. Friends could tell their friend they went to a Wikimedia Australia meeting ... think of the resources in our own backyards.
[15:46] <Angela> I think handling press stuff is going to be one of the major roles for the chapter.
[15:46] <Gunzelette> 12 people willing to pay $30 would be managable
[15:47] <EuropracBHIT> Because everything up to now has been sporadic. People are left to discover Wikipedia on their own.
[15:47] <EuropracBHIT> That's good. But I want more.
[15:47] <EuropracBHIT> Like technical support or something if something went wrong. And MORAL support too.
[15:47] <EuropracBHIT> So we have a startup of $360.
[15:48] <EuropracBHIT> Where does that $360 go? Incorporation costs? Or should we save some?
[15:48] <enochlau> wouldnt that be eaten by registration costs already
[15:48] <EuropracBHIT> Like seed money?
[15:48] <EuropracBHIT> Then we need something in reserve.
[15:48] <Angela> You can ask Wikimedia for the startup money.
[15:48] <EuropracBHIT> Or more people!
[15:48] <Gunzelette> $360 for monthly meetings, p/a (which is a lot cheaper than an office)
[15:48] <Angela> You can ask Wikimedia for the startup money.
[15:49] <EuropracBHIT> "Please, Jimmy and Michael, can we have start up money?"
[15:49] <EuropracBHIT> Only more polite and formal.
[15:49] <EuropracBHIT> In that case who is logging?
[15:49] <Gunzelette> we'd need to have all this stuff ironed out first
[15:49] <enochlau> lol angela missed that comment
[15:49] <enochlau> ummm
[15:49] <Angela> I still have a log, other than the few seconds I missed. [the missed section has been added to this log]
[15:49] <EuropracBHIT> Yes, how inconvenient for it to be that one!
[15:50] <Angela> I just read it over at Tim's computer :)
[15:50] <enochlau> for the evening session, is it going to be an extension of this conversation?
[15:50] <enochlau> or discussing the same issues but with diff people?
[15:50] <EuropracBHIT> Perhaps. I don't know. We could always get some cross-fertilisation.
[15:50] <Angela> It would be useful if the people coming to the later one would read the log first so we don't repeat stuff.
[15:50] <EuropracBHIT> Maybe more Wikimedians are available at night. And then we could write out a summary in between.
[15:51] <enochlau> i wont be around
[15:51] <enochlau> anyway im off
[15:51] <Gunzelette> anyone planning on being online for both who could recap briefly?
[15:51] <enochlau> nice chatting to you all
[15:51] <Gunzelette> c-ya econ!
[15:51] <EuropracBHIT> A bullet-point of the key issues..
[15:51] <enochlau> *enoch :P
[15:51] <Gunzelette> you too, thanks for your contributions!
[15:51] <Gunzelette> : D
[15:51] <EuropracBHIT> I could, I suppose, but I don't remember very much. I appreciate your contributions, Enoch, particularly with the nutty stuff.
[15:51] <EuropracBHIT> And seeing things from a member's perspective.
[15:52] <EuropracBHIT> I don't know about dedicating 15 minutes to introduction like we did this afternoon.
[15:52] <Gunzelette> I enjoyed it
[15:52] <Angela> I think it was useful.
[15:53] <EuropracBHIT> Me too. So we knew each other's motivations in doing this.
[15:53] <EuropracBHIT> And why we were here.
[15:53] <Gunzelette> Particularly given that I missed the Melbourne meetup
[15:53] <EuropracBHIT> And I did. When are we going to have the next one?
[15:53] <EuropracBHIT> If we have a next one?
[15:54] <Angela> There's not another planned yet as far as I know.
[15:54] <Gunzelette> I dunno... I suggested it on the /Talk page but it got shot down...
[15:54] <EuropracBHIT> Maybe we should get the leg work done.
[15:54] <EuropracBHIT> I supported it! Admittedly a few months late, but still!
[15:54] <Gunzelette> lol thanks :)
[15:54] <EuropracBHIT> Maybe it's too soon for lots of people.
[15:55] <Gunzelette> Maybe we should organise a meetup for registration?
[15:55] <EuropracBHIT> That would be good. Who, what, when, where, why, how? Let's make a page about it.
[15:55] <EuropracBHIT> And let's advertise widely.
[15:56] <EuropracBHIT> Everyone! It's nearly wind-up time!
[15:57] <EuropracBHIT> Let's say thank you and hope you can come to the 9:00 meeting and that we get some new people who will read the log.
[15:57] <Gunzelette> Thanks eveyone for your contributions :)
[15:57] <EuropracBHIT> I wish you all best of luck with the projects in future, and with registration. Your contributions were all great and valued.
[15:57] <Angela> bye all. thanks for coming :)