Friday, February 22, 2008

Body Count: 85-100 Million Dead From Communism

"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression" documents communist crimes against humanity, but also crimes against national and universal culture, from Stalin's destruction of hundreds of churches in Moscow to Ceausescu's leveling of the historic heart of Bucharest to the widescale devastation visited on Chinese culture by Mao's Red Guards.

As the death toll mounts—as many as 25 million in the former Soviet Union, 65 million in China, 1.7 million in Cambodia, and on and on—the authors systematically show how and why, wherever the millenarian ideology of Communism was established, it quickly led to crime, terror, and repression. An extraordinary accounting, this book amply documents the unparalleled position and significance of Communism in the hierarchy of violence that is the history of the twentieth century.Essentially a body count of communism's victims in the 20th century, the book draws heavily from recently opened Soviet archives. The verdict: communism was responsible for between 85 million and 100 million deaths in the century.HT: NCPA

It's certainly a little rich to attribute all those deaths to communism.

Unless you're willing to also consider the deaths in Iraq, deaths in the U.S. due to lack of health care, deaths due to the Nazi's in WWII, deaths in Africa caused by corrupt but capitalist regimes, etc. as "deaths due to capitalism".

If you insist on viewing everything from a communist/capitalist perspective then you'll never be able to fix your own countries problems. You've got capitalism, but people keep dieing. How is that possible?

Not only that, you've got people dying because of corruption, war, oppression, etc. - preventable things - everywhere. If communism gets the blame for everything bad that happens in communist countries, then surely capitalism must be to blame for everything bad that happens in capitalist countries, no?

You forget there are plenty more killed by the economic "liberalism" they've adopted. It's nothing more than just slave labor with little attention to quality. On this one, the ticker's still counting.

The crimes from this "liberalism" are just the same as the ones from the "evil socialism" if not worse(which ends up being the case).

Your point is rather ridiculous. The death toll attributed to communism isn't simply for every bad thing that happens -- e.g. you got struck crossing the road because the government didn't put in place a crosswalk. This is about policies that directly led to people's death. In China we can see this through the cultural revolution and the collectivization campaign that led to the deaths of millions. In the USSR, especially under Stalin, government action was if anything even more direct, with hundreds of thousands of laborers perishing in the construction of huge elaborate projects that were part of the 5 year plans, people packed off to Siberia and the deliberate starvation of those in the Ukraine. Pol Pot made death an explicit part of his agenda.

Any alleged moral equivalency is nonsensical and a slap to those that died at the hands of the communists. What a despicable system, that invariably relied on oppression to sustain itself.

You can criticize Mark's post as unremarkable, but the defense of communism or alleged parallels with capitalism that some posters are trying to mount is rather disturbing.

anon @ 11:02 AM whines with the typical libtard flair for ignoring the facts: "Why don't you show us how the worthless, shameful and illegal military adventure in Iraq has helped or hurt our economy"...

anon @ 12:39 also whines with a depth & breadth that shows me of someone who has never left his/her bedroom: "If communism gets the blame for everything bad that happens in communist countries, then surely capitalism must be to blame for everything bad that happens in capitalist countries, no?"...

Name one accomplishment of communism that is used world-wide for the betterment of mankind...

Article VI of the US Constitution makes any treaties signed part of domestic law. ("...all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.")

Which means the PL

The US signed the UN Charter in 1945 therefore a violation of the UN Charter is a violation of domestic and international law.

The UN Charter permits war 1) for Self defense from an attack or imminent attack or 2) after the UN Security Council authorizes the use of military force.

Therefore the Iraq military adventure is illegal by US domestic and by International law.

anon @ 3:48 pm says: "Thanks for the link to the book (1,000 pages!) about capitalism"...

No problem... Some good reading there...

anon @ 6:50 PM says: "Article VI of the US Constitution makes any treaties signed part of domestic law. ("...all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land..."

Hmmm, I think you need to reread that Article 4 again... I believe its about contracts between the states...

Several ultra high members of the US military and this administration admitted that the Iraq war was illegal and concocted prior to the 9-11 attacks. Unfortunately, my sources must remain anonymous. Just take my word for it. Perhaps, the NYT will run it.

Are we not really discussing totalitarianis? Whether it is communist totalitarianism, or fascist totalitarianism...human beings die.

Anon. 9:56With regard to religions being the cause of human deaths, I believe that you are confusing the justifications that people use with religion. People are responsible for their own choices no matter how they want to dress it up.

You might brainwash a 14 year old with pseudo religious babble but let us not confuse Islamo fascism with Islam. It never ceases to amaze that those who advocate violence in the name of religion don't actually do what they preach...Rev. Ian Paisley & Osama bin laden for example. I imagine that both will die safe in their beds.

I'm surprized nobody has mentioned the Africa-U.S. slave trade as an example of a capitalist atrocity. I don't think that there's a clear estimate of the number of deaths, but it's in the 10s of millions. And then of course you have the after-effects that still last to this day in both Africa and the U.S.

If you add up all the slave trades you may or may not get 100 M deaths, but there were fewer people back then. Atrocities are bigger nowadays because populations are bigger.

Pure capitalism doesn't really exist any more - even in the U.S. there are social programs. So comparing the worst of communism with a very non-radical modern capitalism that no longer exists doesn't make sense.

You need to compare the worst of both systems if you want to come to any meaningful conclusions.