liam76:give me doughnuts: Apik0r0s: ocschwar: I, and most of the world, couldn't give two runny shiats about your whining over "civilians".

You and the voices in your head, that is.

Sorry, but 130 nations just agreed that the world has had enough of your racist apartheid regime and its extermination of a people.

Slowest worst extermination of a people EVAR. what with the population increasing, and all.

Don't bother bringing up reality.

ocschwar: Then again, it wasn't even Israel that did Shatilla.

Funny how when Israel didn't do enough to stop them it is their fault, but when Hamas doesn't do anything to stop rockets from "rogue" groups it isn't their fault. When Lebannon didn't stop hezebullah from launching rockets, it isn't their fault.

The IDF and Israel were found by the UN and the Kahan Commission to bera responsibility for the Shatilla and Sabra massacres. Typical Israeli game: surround refugee camps, let the enemies of the refugees inside, illuminate the camps with flares all night while the people are murdered and claim they didn't do anything. Who, us?

Now it's, "We swear we saw a rocket come from that school so we bombed those kids to dust."

ocschwar:My country does, however, look to the world like enablers and protectors of a racist, apartheid regime bent on racial purity.

It only looks that way to your stupid, deluded eyes, stuck as they are, in the sockets of your asshat head.

Right buddy. It's just me. Everybody else in the world loves Israel and always has. LOL.

History repeats, unfortunately. Ten years from now when some Palestinian kid, who lost his family to IDF munitions and Israeli land-lust, opens a vial or pushes a button in Tel Aviv, it won't matter who was right or wrong, will it?

Apik0r0s:ocschwar: It's kind of hard to Shatilla these people with the news cycle any more.

Not stopping Assad from going Shatilla on his people right now.

Then again, it wasn't even Israel that did Shatilla.

Just push them too far and when they react with a completely innefective rocket attack -

I bet it breaks your heart when a Gazan rocket fails to kill Israeli civilians.

I could give a shiat about either party. My country hasn't hitched its wagon to the Palestinian star though. My country doesn't have its honor besmirched in the eyes of the world for supporting Palestine. My country does, however, look to the world like enablers and protectors of a racist, apartheid regime bent on racial purity.

I don't remember any Palestinians using their positions in US media to propagandize America to the point where 80% of people ended up believing Sadaam Hussein was involved in 9/11. No, I think that was Wolf Blitzer and Rupert Murdoch. I remember the NYT giving Judith Miller the UNPRECEDENTED freedom to publish whatever she could cook up on their front page. Not in the interest of America, but in the interest of their real country, the country they would torch all others to advance.

Joe Blowme:Apik0r0s: ocschwar: It's kind of hard to Shatilla these people with the news cycle any more.

Not stopping Assad from going Shatilla on his people right now.

Then again, it wasn't even Israel that did Shatilla.

Just push them too far and when they react with a completely innefective rocket attack -

I bet it breaks your heart when a Gazan rocket fails to kill Israeli civilians.

I could give a shiat about either party. My country hasn't hitched its wagon to the Palestinian star though. My country doesn't have its honor besmirched in the eyes of the world for supporting Palestine. My country does, however, look to the world like enablers and protectors of a racist, apartheid regime bent on racial purity.

I don't remember any Palestinians using their positions in US media to propagandize America to the point where 80% of people ended up believing Sadaam Hussein was involved in 9/11. No, I think that was Wolf Blitzer and Rupert Murdoch. I remember the NYT giving Judith Miller the UNPRECEDENTED freedom to publish whatever she could cook up on their front page. Not in the interest of America, but in the interest of their real country, the country they would torch all others to advance.

If you reject the use of a 3000 year old book written by a goat-herding pedophile as a real-estate deed, you're a self-hater.

If you reject God's gift to you of racial supremacy, you're a self-hater.

So if I don't support apartheid, have almost equal love for Israel and America (sue me, I lived in Israel for a while), reject The Bible as an infallible blueprint for living my life, reject the idea of racial supremacy, yet I still call myself Jewish and still generally support the Israeli side of the argument over the Palestinian side while still advocating for their self-sufficiency (and, if they want, a full decoupling from Israel) - what then?

Am I part of the Zionist conspiracy to replace the cherries inside chocolate-covered cherries with week-old mayonnaise, or am I a libtardo dhimmi moonbat who wishes death upon my countrymen?

PROTIP: the world is far, far more complex than winners and losers, right and wrong. I find that both my buddies who feel that Israel can do no wrong and my (Israeli, American expat) aunt who believes Israel has done little right ignore those parts of the argument that disagree with their conception/characterization of it, and, as most things, the answer is somewhere in between the extremes.

Personally, I think that nothing can get done so long as both sides are waging the wars of centuries ago based on the paranoias of last generation, but I'll admit I can be wrong.

// but to take such a hard line - and with a name like Apikoros, to boot - does nothing to engender any sort of enmity in a debate, online or otherwise// an "apikores" is either one who does not accept the divinity of the Bible or one who disrespects teachers and scholars (sometimes both), and when your words make you out as the latter definition, hiding behind the former definition seems a bit dishonest// again, I could be wrong, but that's what I'm seeing

If you resort to such terms as apartheid, you're an asshat with a penchant for hyperbole.If you're a Jew, that makes you a self hater.

"the white Afrikaners, too, had reasons for their segregation policy; they, too, felt threatened - a great evil was at their door, and they were frightened, out to defend themselves. Unfortunately, however, all good reasons for apartheid are bad reasons; apartheid always has a reason, and it never has a justification. And what acts like apartheid, is run like apartheid and harasses like apartheid, is not a duck - it is apartheid." --- Yossi Sarid

Dr Dreidel:// but to take such a hard line - and with a name like Apikoros, to boot - does nothing to engender any sort of enmity in a debate, online or otherwise// an "apikores" is either one who does not accept the divinity of the Bible or one who disrespects teachers and scholars (sometimes both), and when your words make you out as the latter definition, hiding behind the former definition seems a bit dishonest// again, I could be wrong, but that's what ...

I didn't choose that name, I was branded with it. It's a badge of honor, frankly. I reject the Torah as coming from God, or anywhere other than the minds of men who used fairy tales in the furtherance of power and control. I don't believe in an afterlife because such a notion is patently ridiculous. There is no observable evidence in the universe that points to life after death. It is common sense.

It's not like anybody else actually believes that crap either, but you either ape their antediluvian chants and nonsense or you don't get into the secret clubhouse. No thanks. Clubhouses built around 3000 year old books is half the problem with the world.

Apik0r0s:I didn't choose that name, I was branded with it. It's a badge of honor, frankly. I reject the Torah as coming from God, or anywhere other than the minds of men who used fairy tales in the furtherance of power and control. I don't believe in an afterlife because such a notion is patently ridiculous. There is no observable evidence in the universe that points to life after death. It is common sense.

It's not like anybody else actually believes that crap either, but you either ape their antediluvian chants and nonsense or you don't get into the secret clubhouse. No thanks. Clubhouses built around 3000 year old books is half the problem with the world.

So you've got a chip on your shoulder. That's nice. It's not Israel's fault your cheder teachers were antisocial idiots, though. (Quite probably, your American cheder is well to the right of mainstream Judaism in Israel, to boot.)

I haven't been aping the antidiluvian chants for years, and they still let me into the clubhouse - largely because I don't spend my time there calling them racist farkheaded apartheid-supporting blind-follower automaton assholes. Sure, there are some there like that (I believe I've mentioned one or two many times here), but that's what I meant-

It's probably not best to brand yourself (and you did choose that Fark handle, pal. Even if not, you can always open a new one) as anti-[thing], then walk into where [thing] happens, and then wonder why no one takes you seriously. Dial it back, and perhaps introduce some moderation to your opinions and arguments - even if only to build some bridges with people who may want to hear what (non-hyperbolic things) you have to say.

Step 1) Launch rockets into your neighboring country's neighborhoods and have most of them get shot down.Step 2) Run out of rockets.Step 3) Agree to a cease-fireStep 4) Claim "victory."Step 5) Create a perfume and name after the rockets that got mostly shot down and ran out of.Step 6) Profit?

Wow...the amount of ultraliberal bullshiat in here is staggering. Do you farkers ever stand up for ANYTHING on ANY grounds other than "what's the most indignant and intelectually superior poture to take?" It just blows my mind that you assholes make Israel out to be the bad guy when all Palestine has ever wanted to do is exterminate the Jews. I seem to remember hand grenades being thrown into Jeish elementary schools a few years ago...yup, those poor brown Palestinians are sooo oppressed. Grow a farking spine and stand up for something...anything.