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Originally Posted by Info
>Some case in point:
>M26, Centurion and IS-3 are allowed.
>Centurion may not have the 20 pounder, may not use the cast turret (post Aug 1945)
>Centurion rather popular in Senshado.

Actually, it says the opposite. The vehicle is easy to obtain, but not the special test type turret, so it wasn't very popular.

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>M4 have been with the 120mm L/44 Rheinmetall, and fitted with M1 Abrams engine.
>Not allowed to use the 120mm APFSDS rounds though. So the guns underperform as they have to use WW2 rounds.

They actually say that there was simply no qualified round, so the gun wasn't able to perform and the tank was defeated.

I like how someone managed to turn a statement of "they did well for civilians playing tanks" to "they never panicked".

I'll just leave this here. Your words, not mine.

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Originally Posted by Sumeragi

That wasn't even close to "scattering like frightened chickens". I suppose this is where we have a difference in views: It could have been a lot worse, but how they handled it showed they had enough training. Anything less would have resulted in a greater catastrophe.

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Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Maybe it's because I've seen what actual panicking is like. Mileages might vary, as I said.

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Originally Posted by Sumeragi

What was "panic" in the eyes of the regular view was the correct response to the situation.

You were the one who was saying that they weren't panicking. That is the interpretation I get from your words.

Incidentally, I'll just note that you never said anything about them playing well for civilians playing at tanks. I was the one who first brought up, many pages prior, the fact that these are high school girls playing tanks.

The point stands, however, that compared to that Chally 2 crew, Black Forest's girls are panicking.

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But hey, it is the nature of hypocrites to twist everything to suit their needs.

Again, pot calling the kettle black; you've done the same before, and you're even doing it now.
I'm just going to quote what you posted on my Visitor Messages:

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Originally Posted by Sumeragi

When the porcelain pot calls the iron kettle black, does that mean the pot is also black?

Not really, I just like using idioms against itself if possible to prove a point.

If you can think of a counter to the saying, then by all means, do say it. I like when people go against conventions and "majority" thought.

So it's okay for you to twist sayings around, but not okay for me? Hypocrisy much there, Sumeragi.

Again, as the saying goes, takes one to know one. So if you're accusing me of hypocrisy, well, do the math.

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Of course, uncultured people wouldn't know the difference.

If your definition of culture means: risking death and personal injury for the sake of victory; sees no danger in a tank falling into a river; and cannot differentiate between abandoning the weaker members of your team because it is inconvenient to help them, and your team voluntarily taking the bullet in a sacrificial play...

Then I want no part of your so-called culture.

Also, I find it remarkable that you've managed to turn this into a personal attack on me. A tacit acknowledgement that your position is indefensible, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by LoweGear

Some stuff from the final BD/DVD booklet apparently... which shows us just how crazy the Americans are in this world:

Do remember from the previous translations that the "Unlimited Class" is the one where anything goes unlike with traditional Senshado.

... Yeah, that settles it. Pimp My Tank is definitely a show on American TV there.

But still, jesus, fitting the 120mm smoothbore to an M4 hull? Mad genius. That said, if they're using WW2 style rounds, then I could see performance issues, since you need rifling to engage spin to stabilise the round, and since sabot rounds are banned, you lose the whole point of the gun. The 105 the use on the Challenger 2 or the old M1 Abrams would have been better.

__________________

~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

If your definition of culture means: risking death and personal injury for the sake of victory; sees no danger in a tank falling into a river; and cannot differentiate between abandoning the weaker members of your team because it is inconvenient to help them, and your team voluntarily taking the bullet in a sacrificial play

I've been itching for an excuse to say this for a long time, and now appears to be the appropriate time for me to say it: the fervent and blind determination for victory (e.g. Nishizumi style) is destructive, as per Sun Tzu's Art of War. I was doing some reading a while back, and realised that approaches resembling the Nishizumi Style contradicts Sun Tzu's paradigms about picking battles carefully. Nowhere in the text does it say that the appropriate action is, even if afforded numerical and mechanical advantage, to push an enemy relentlessly.

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Sun Tzu Said: Having more soldiers in war does not give absolute superiority. Never advance recklessly by sheer force, but concentrate your troops through a correct assessment of the enemy’s deposition and you will defeat the enemy. He who lacks careful thought and strategy and underestimates the enemy will surely be captured by the opponent.

I previously compared this to the Nishizumi style (and similar branches of thought), finding that by comparison, their notion of "advancing without hindrance by emotions" stands in contradiction to Sun Tzu. Sometimes, it is necessary to retreat to fight another day. Sometimes, it is necessary to back down and save a teammate. Sometimes, it is better to lose a battle to set the stage for winning the war. In other words, a "culture" of determined advancement, in ignorance of one's environment and their enemy's capacities, is sure to lead to ruin.

We see this in the Girls und Panzer anime, of course, when Miho's talents for knowing when to advance and more importantly, retreat, help Ooarai out. The belief that "culture" is recklessness and mercilessness is so intrinsically broken that it cannot survive that long (having self-destructed via warfare before they could stablise). Sun Tzu figured this out some two thousand years ago, and the fact that his ideas are still widespread today should be an indicator of how effective they are

But still, jesus, fitting the 120mm smoothbore to an M4 hull? Mad genius. That said, if they're using WW2 style rounds, then I could see performance issues, since you need rifling to engage spin to stabilise the round, and since sabot rounds are banned, you lose the whole point of the gun. The 105 the use on the Challenger 2 or the old M1 Abrams would have been better.

Well, that was probably a case of a guy with more greed than brains, as the story seems to imply.

Still, one must wonder that how unbalanced a post-WWII gun but limiting it to "WWII" ammo will be. Since there is no real WWII round for the gun, if the gun is allowed with ammo at all the best we can do is allowing a round that will be plausibly producible with WWII tech. The problem the gun will still be able to withstand a larger amount of overpressure than WWII guns, which theoretically allows them to create a round with an "insane" amount of WWII propellant.

How are those narrow treads supporting all that weight and keeping it from sinking into the ground?

Endless "Physics" Soul

Actually, despite it's look Russ is quite tough and agile. Even with it's design the hull is made of plasteel or adamantium ( depending on the Forge World that makes it ) and that is the key because both superstructure and threads are made of light and super strong materials that are not available today. THat's why the chassis is able to hold it even if in reality with steel or iron that is not possible Here are the specifications:

Probelm is: If Oarai can effort something like this, I'm afraid that other teams will also have something "better".

I wouldn't count on it, standard Russ is infantry support tank and it is considered best in the setting. And if they take Vanquisher version ( it's like Sherman Firefly ) they can pretty much defeat everything else with ease.

The only tank that could be considered better are Baneblade ( basically much wider Maus with 11 instead of jsut 2 guns ) and it's variants, everything else is not up to it - even non-human tanks.

I also wanted to ask the people who read the Panzekkraft rules: is 'up to 1945' ruel for tanks for nationals only or for Panzerkampf in general?
My question would be: can they use modern tanks in International fight ( like Sheridan, T-72, Merkava, Challenger... )?