I got a bit of a leg up coming into the series so late. I was well and fully aware of the Raiden switch before coming in, so I wasn't nearly as mad as I probably would of been if I'd been tricked.

But then again, something tells me even then I wouldn't be that mad. I came in with very low expectations for Raiden, so I was definately pleasently surprised with him. I always thought he was awesome, never got the hate for him.

I should find the time to read it later. I love stuff like this, where it goes really in depth with games. I read this one not too long ago, just about the MGS2 ending: http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/Analysis.html

I should find the time to read it later. I love stuff like this, where it goes really in depth with games. I read this one not too long ago, just about the MGS2 ending: http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/Analysis.html

Click to expand...

Come on man, you keep coming on here to post links to your own articles. At least stop pretending it's not your own site.

I should find the time to read it later. I love stuff like this, where it goes really in depth with games. I read this one not too long ago, just about the MGS2 ending: http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/Analysis.html

Click to expand...

Come on man, you keep coming on here to post links to your own articles. At least stop pretending it's not your own site.

Citing Snakes motivation to do the Tanker mission and Shadow Moses because he was "bored" showcases a dangerous lack of insight into the characters motivation. It's hard to get behind any theories the author may present if they are so off the mark about something so fundamental in the game and story.

Lines such as this: "He (Raiden) often feels frustrated that his own mission isn’t as cool, much like the actual player. It’s strange and clever, but why not cut out the self-deprecation and just make the game cool instead?" also highlight the authors lack of understanding of the title. Raiden is not worried how "cool" his mission is, his frustrated by the lack of info he has and his inability to avoid being manipulated and used. MGS was already a "cool" game by the authors standards, it's great that Kojima had the courage to make a game that he knew would be challenged by it's fan base.

There are interesting points in the article, such as his exploration of Raidens belittlement by everyone he encounters. But even those points are concluded with sentiments about how changing the challenging aspects of the game would make it "cooler". Let's be honest anyone with two eyes and functioning hearing could make a laundry list of ways to make MGS2 more exciting, or even fun. Chop the dialogue by 85%, make Solid the playable character through the whole game, ditch Rose, cut the poltergeist arm, have only one (at most two) plot lines. These things are all obvious to anyone who has played even halfway through MGS2 so I don't find highlighting them for the millionth time ten years after the game's been released to be a good contribution to the discussion of this game.

I'm sorry to be so negative about this as the author clearly put a good amount of time into it, and perhaps the later chapters will redeem these somewhat flawed beginnings.

Here's an other essay on MGS2 although it is quite old. I think I first read it a few years ago and I remember liking it so here ya go.

The VR theory is stupid. The game was intended to make you lose trust in reality, hence breaking the fourth wall and all the twists and turns. The original game plan makes most of this "breakdown" pretty much useless:

I'll admit, while 2 isn't my favorite MGS, it's certainly the most fun to talk about. Digging into the story and dissecting it and finding all kinds of hidden meanings and messages, it's just so awesome. While the VR theory is obviously, well, wrong given MGS4, it's still cool to hear about.

I'll admit, while 2 isn't my favorite MGS, it's certainly the most fun to talk about. Digging into the story and dissecting it and finding all kinds of hidden meanings and messages, it's just so awesome. While the VR theory is obviously, well, wrong given MGS4, it's still cool to hear about.

Click to expand...

Who's to say that MGS4 wasn't VR? There wasn't any proof that it wasn't! Who's to say that the entire series wasn't just Big Boss's nightmare back in the prison cell in Grozny Grad? The whole point of MGS2 was to question reality; who can honestly say if any of the games happened in the canon?

I'll admit, while 2 isn't my favorite MGS, it's certainly the most fun to talk about. Digging into the story and dissecting it and finding all kinds of hidden meanings and messages, it's just so awesome. While the VR theory is obviously, well, wrong given MGS4, it's still cool to hear about.

Click to expand...

Who's to say that MGS4 wasn't VR? There wasn't any proof that it wasn't! Who's to say that the entire series wasn't just Big Boss's nightmare back in the prison cell in Grozny Grad? The whole point of MGS2 was to question reality; who can honestly say if any of the games happened in the canon?

Click to expand...

There is no precedent that mgs4 was VR and, 3 was obviously way before vr. It's clear that some of the games absolutely happened due to that fact alone.

I'll admit, while 2 isn't my favorite MGS, it's certainly the most fun to talk about. Digging into the story and dissecting it and finding all kinds of hidden meanings and messages, it's just so awesome. While the VR theory is obviously, well, wrong given MGS4, it's still cool to hear about.

Click to expand...

Who's to say that MGS4 wasn't VR? There wasn't any proof that it wasn't! Who's to say that the entire series wasn't just Big Boss's nightmare back in the prison cell in Grozny Grad? The whole point of MGS2 was to question reality; who can honestly say if any of the games happened in the canon?

that brought some memories. I never hated MGS2, i loved it. I never complained for the most part about not playing with Snake because I was so into the story. MGS was still my favorite. Greatest franchise ever IMO.

I'll admit, while 2 isn't my favorite MGS, it's certainly the most fun to talk about. Digging into the story and dissecting it and finding all kinds of hidden meanings and messages, it's just so awesome. While the VR theory is obviously, well, wrong given MGS4, it's still cool to hear about.

Click to expand...

Who's to say that MGS4 wasn't VR? There wasn't any proof that it wasn't! Who's to say that the entire series wasn't just Big Boss's nightmare back in the prison cell in Grozny Grad? The whole point of MGS2 was to question reality; who can honestly say if any of the games happened in the canon?

Click to expand...

There is no precedent that mgs4 was VR and, 3 was obviously way before vr. It's clear that some of the games absolutely happened due to that fact alone.

There is so much fail in this thing its dangerous.

Click to expand...

How do you know that Raiden didn't re-enact the events of Snake Eater in VR?

Who's to say that MGS4 wasn't VR? There wasn't any proof that it wasn't! Who's to say that the entire series wasn't just Big Boss's nightmare back in the prison cell in Grozny Grad? The whole point of MGS2 was to question reality; who can honestly say if any of the games happened in the canon?

Click to expand...

There is no precedent that mgs4 was VR and, 3 was obviously way before vr. It's clear that some of the games absolutely happened due to that fact alone.

There is so much fail in this thing its dangerous.

Click to expand...

How do you know that Raiden didn't re-enact the events of Snake Eater in VR?

Click to expand...

Damn, the Patriot's are just a bunch of A holes to make him go through ALL this.

Who's to say that MGS4 wasn't VR? There wasn't any proof that it wasn't! Who's to say that the entire series wasn't just Big Boss's nightmare back in the prison cell in Grozny Grad? The whole point of MGS2 was to question reality; who can honestly say if any of the games happened in the canon?

Click to expand...

There is no precedent that mgs4 was VR and, 3 was obviously way before vr. It's clear that some of the games absolutely happened due to that fact alone.

There is so much fail in this thing its dangerous.

Click to expand...

How do you know that Raiden didn't re-enact the events of Snake Eater in VR?

Click to expand...

how do you know the whole series isn't the dream of a hamster?

that kind of thinking is asinine at best, and clearly ignores the essential themes of MGS2.

If anything this "in-depth" look at MGS2 highlights the true danger The Patriots feared. Where is the S3 plan when you need it.

How do you know that Raiden didn't re-enact the events of Snake Eater in VR?

Click to expand...

That is completely asinine and pointless, there is essentially no point to paying attention to the story if none of it is real. You might as well say Raiden isn't real and is all in the mind of someone else entirely.

All Just A Dream stories can go f*** themselves, very rarely is that theme of one's perception of reality being fake done well.

MGS2 is that game that I know is flawed and objectively isn't the best in the series yet it's my favorite anyway. It's also strange considering MGS1 was my first so it's not like nostalgia glasses have anything to do with it.

(Jumping into the convo about the flaws- I like MGS2. The story is great, no question, but I can't put it on as much of a pedestal since the presentation hurts it for me. Mainly the pacing (Codecs every 5 steps. MGS1 had the best pacing IMO. Big Shell, at least Shell 1, was just mind-numbingly boring and took backtracking to a whole new level. Quinton Flynn is a swell guy, but they really should've went in a different direction with Raiden's voice. That's probably 75% of the character's hatred in itself.)

I, too, love MGS2. It's my favorite game of the series. But many (not all, but many) of it's criticisms are completely justified. It's a very flawed game in many respects.

Click to expand...

Well, one of the biggest reasons why ppl criticism (especially at the time) was that you play as Raiden instead of Solid Snake. Before the game was release, Kojima gave you the illusion that Snake is the main character.

Back then, I wasn't fond of it either. But it was a pretty ingenious and ballsy move and Raiden kind'a grew on me. I prefer his MGS2 stuff than his MGS4 stuff. I haven't seen/played Rising yet.

Then the cutscenes were long and not paced well unlike MGS1 it seemed. And it wasn't as simple as MGS1.

The plot in general was fun because you would have to replay it a few times to get wtf happened. I played that game multiple times trying to figure out what was what. And if you play that game again, there are still some points and theme it went over that can be compared to today. There were some serious physiological issues there and it was similar to George Orwell 1984 status in government control.The issue went to what is real, to digital and information control, hypocrisy and lies of humans telling them selfs, to psychological control, to memes. This is what I love about the game, and I think it gets unappreciated in a way. Especially at the time.

Some people were just turned off back then because it was too complex. Granted, the pacing in how they address the issues were off which made it convoluted. There were times that it didn't feel like a game, it felt more like a interactive movie with a little gameplay. Those were the flaws imo. But the last bit where you Raiden talk to the Patriots were one of the creepiest, real, and meaningful moments I ever had in a video game or in any fictional story. I feel like you can take that scene to a Philosophical or English class, and you can have days trying to dissect what you think it meant.That was genius writing to me. But other ppl have their own opinions.

Each MGS have its moments and each of them have a different theme. And if MGS5 is going to do with some real issues, that's going to be great to. Hopefully they could bounce back from MGS4 and exactly execute on taboo issues . I think Metal Gear games work best as a one shot, trying to get their point across or a certain theme.

oh and by the way, MGS1 was NOT simple at all.
it also made the player try and piece together the whole story.
people spent years trying to figure out the finer parts of the story.
and they STILL DO.

MGS2 was a drag because it literally left EVERYONE wondering
what in the fuck just happened!!? it left everything open ended without
any real closure to hold onto and take with you to your pillow at night.

So instead, everyone was just left with an over-all feeling of WHAT IN THE FUCK!!?
In contrast, MGS1 gave you an ending that left you feeling hopeful for Snake's future,
as well as your own.