McLaren race operations

Well an argument can be made that all of the wheels they've got on have stayed on.

My response was meant to be taken literally, where was it earlier in the year when Button left the pit with a loose wheel and the car had to be manhandled back so that it could be securely attached. I didn't mean to be sarcastic/funny but I do see your point.

My response was meant to be taken literally, where was it earlier in the year when Button left the pit with a loose wheel and the car had to be manhandled back so that it could be securely attached. I didn't mean to be sarcastic/funny but I do see your point.

I was. The poster you were replying to is apparently of the opinion that Button should be devising his own race strategy and adapting it on the go as he is driving corresponding to the traffic and tyre dropoffs his and cars of others are exhibiting.

And on the quoted part, I think that "computer sez" that all the competitors run out of tyres on lap 65 and drop massively back.

It reminds of when calculators were introduced in schools. It meant you could then calculate the wrong answer to six decimal places instead of two.

It would interest me on what basis they calculated the target lap times on - this was certainly the first time these tyres were used on this type of surface and track. Perhaps they used the available long-run data from Perez? or did they just extrapolate from other tracks?

Either way its key element to base the entire race on and a highly risky thing to do, perhaps it would have been better to put Perez on the one-stop if it was based on his data.

Tonka, I have considered your strawman and find it a bit flimsy and flammable.

Clearly this weekedn they had issues with determining the optimal speed at which they could run due to lack of dry weather running on Friday but I think the response to a situation like that needs to be less about measure and more about gut. Why not let the drivers go as fast as they can and just see how that first set of tyres lasts and move from there? If that means a swap to a three-stopper so what? They started out of the points so there was nothing to lose at all. The race is surely more important than the plan?

Perhaps McLaren are not used to these suck-it-and-see tactics because they are usually much further forwards and don't habitually need to? In those circumstances guaranteed points are more important than strategy error, but where they are now the risk of falling even further back is outweighed by the need to try something different.

And whoever thought it was a great idea to put Button on a one-stopper starting on options should be dropped into the MTC lake with those tyres tied around their neck.

You Button fans should have spoken up when Hamilton fans were saying this...instead some were quick to blame him instead. Even the pitstops with stuff lkike he didn't hit the marks centimetre perfrect. Or that he didn't make his own strategy calls. When the computer says 3 stop is the fastest way around I don't understand why Button 1 stopped.

Anyway, at least it didn't lose your favourite driver a WDC...Button fans were so eerily quiet that I bet there was relief that Hamilton didn't take the WDC.

Did it make any sense that they would adopt a lower-downforce setup when they were expecting a wet quali? Obviously not, but that setup would have some advantages in the race, maybe?

Lower downforce and higher top speed would make overtaking easier. But that's not relevant if you are running a one-stop strategy, you don't want to be overtaking people, you want to be nursing your tyres and keeping a gap to the car in front.

So they had a race setup which would have been more suitable if they had wanted to get racy. Perhaps the original plan was to do that, overtake a bunch of people, but when it came to the race, they found the car with its low downforce setup wasn't actually very fast.

Maybe that would explain why the cars started on the supersoft tyres. They were planning a sprint with multiple pitstops. Checo stayed closer to that strategy, but wasn't able to overtake very easily, so it didn't work. Jenson switched the strategy, but he had started on the wrong tyres and had the wrong downforce level for long stints.

If they'd been more realistic about the car's capabilities, they'd have put on more downforce for better wet quali, which would also help them to look after the tyres better in the race, then started on primes with more confidence to push hard, and finished in the points.

You Button fans should have spoken up when Hamilton fans were saying this...instead some were quick to blame him instead. Even the pitstops with stuff lkike he didn't hit the marks centimetre perfrect. Or that he didn't make his own strategy calls. When the computer says 3 stop is the fastest way around I don't understand why Button 1 stopped.

Anyway, at least it didn't lose your favourite driver a WDC...Button fans were so eerily quiet that I bet there was relief that Hamilton didn't take the WDC.

You Button fans should have spoken up when Hamilton fans were saying this...instead some were quick to blame him instead. Even the pitstops with stuff lkike he didn't hit the marks centimetre perfrect. Or that he didn't make his own strategy calls. When the computer says 3 stop is the fastest way around I don't understand why Button 1 stopped.

Anyway, at least it didn't lose your favourite driver a WDC...Button fans were so eerily quiet that I bet there was relief that Hamilton didn't take the WDC.

You could say that Canada was a disaster, neither car finishing in the points.

I prefer to think that it might be a turning point.

The fact that several commentators are now focusing on McLaren's poor race strategy might give the team the push that they seem to need to make improvements.

Let's be clear about this. In the 21st Century, McLaren have had a reasonably competitive car in most years. Inspired decision-making could have brought many more race wins and more titles. Even competence would have been enough to get the job done more than once. Instead they owe their single title more to good fortune than to good judgement.

In the past, McLaren didn't look so bad compared to the opposition, especially after the Todt/Brawn team at Ferrari was broken up. But now Red Bull have taken professionalism to a higher level, and have shown how you can still score good points in the races where your car is not the fastest, and even when things go badly wrong. It's time for McLaren to learn the lessons.

I think it would cause no end of problems if Jenson just started ignoring what the pitwall is telling him, although there have been many occasions when I have wished he would.

Jenson just doesn't have enough info to be making these decisions himself, when he's competing against drivers who are getting good instructions from their team.

The solution is for McLaren to improve its race operations.

I can't believe that, out of the army of people who McLaren have running their strategy, there wasn't one who said: "Hey guys, we need to go faster than this to score points". Are people at McLaren scared to speak up?

Perhaps there is someone there who says such things - it doesn't mean the rest are going to listen or, after the race, entertain the thought that they should have listened.

Not a great quali, seems like the car is showing no improvement, maybe even slipping back a little.

What can be done from here?

I'm thinking that a China-style long first stint, starting on primes, should result in some points. The car isn't too hard on the tyres unless the driver has to drive in traffic and attempt some overtakes.

Of course, recent changes might have changed the car in that respect, but in Canada it appeared that Jenson could have done a faster and longer prime stint, so it was the strategy which put them out of the points.

A bit of a surprise in the first stint, with the prime tyres not working well at all for Jenson. Apparently they made a big setup change overnight, and that seems to have had unexpected results - faster in quali, but a particular problem with the primes in the race.

Strategy at the end of the race went wrong, not stopping to fit new tyres. The McLarens gained 2 places as a result, but very quickly lost them again, and more. If the McLaren in its current form was very kind to its tyres, it would have been a more viable strategy. On the other hand, if they had stopped they might have lost places and been unable to recover them, so it was a difficult call.

In such situations other teams have been known to split the strategy, but I suppose McLaren would see that as unequal treatment which would lead to one driver being disgruntled when one strategy inevitably turned out to be better than the other. I don't see why McLaren have to limit themselves that way, split strategies could be decided by a toss of a coin.

Webber in front and behind, Jenson, Alonso and Hamilton are on new tyres, they will be quick. But Ricciardo and Sutil in front, we’ve definitely got an opportunity to gain places there, so we’re going to push hard for the last laps after the Safety Car comes in. The tyres will be fine, we can push, just make sure tyre temperatures are good. Keep warming the brakes.

This was during the second safety car period and in fact neither Jenson nor Hamilton had pitted for fresh tyres.

It's a small thing but when you're struggling with the car, everything else (or the basics at least) needs to be perfect. I can't help but feel small isolated episodes like this, when jigsawed together build a bigger picture of what's going wrong there at the moment.

This was during the second safety car period and in fact neither Jenson nor Hamilton had pitted for fresh tyres.

It's a small thing but when you're struggling with the car, everything else (or the basics at least) needs to be perfect. I can't help but feel small isolated episodes like this, when jigsawed together build a bigger picture of what's going wrong there at the moment.

A couple of posters mentioned seeing him in the garage at the end of last season, but it appears as if he's vanished off the face of the world. He's either been juggled to a different part of the operation, or he's no longer a part of the organisation.

A couple of posters mentioned seeing him in the garage at the end of last season, but it appears as if he's vanished off the face of the world. He's either been juggled to a different part of the operation, or he's no longer a part of the organisation.

So it is perfectly feasible that he left because they wouldn't fully support Hamilton's championship run in...... As an ITK poster suggested.....

So it is perfectly feasible that he left because they wouldn't fully support Hamilton's championship run in...... As an ITK poster suggested.....

Great "Race Operations" if that's the case.......

Well we had quite a few stories, such as wanting to spend more time with his new family, to lewis and he not working well together. We just don't know. My guess it that he is working in another area at McLaren.

It's a bit disappointing in a way that they didn't go for it and run Jenson on options in Q3. But I think it was the sensible choice. Remember what happened to Perez in Spain?

The McLaren just doesn't seem to respond well to being raced hard. A few hot laps, or following other cars closely and trying to overtake, always seems to lead to an early pitstop. So I'm expecting the guys to drive to a delta here, I just hope it's a well-judged delta which will actually allow points to be scored.

The McLaren just doesn't seem to respond well to being raced hard. A few hot laps, or following other cars closely and trying to overtake, always seems to lead to an early pitstop. So I'm expecting the guys to drive to a delta here, I just hope it's a well-judged delta which will actually allow points to be scored.

I'm not sure - the only time I remember Jenson actually trying to race hard and not plodding around to some slow delta was in Bahrain with Checo and yes, it finished his tyres, but IIRC that's the only time they've tried it. Checo has had more aggressive strategies but seems to struggle a bit more with tyre wear in general. I'd like to actually see Jenson being able to race even if it meant losing positions at the end of a stint. I guess that's why I am not in charge of an F1 team! Sadly I do expect them to go for more of the same and aiming for delta times and less pitstops; as you say, let's hope the delta is actually worked out correctly this time!

Andy had been Lewis Hamilton’s race engineer since 2010 when Phil Prew moved up to be Chief Race Engineer. Prior to that he was the data engineer on McLaren’s other car, looking after Heikki Kovalainen and Fernando Alonso.

Andy decided to take 3 races off last season as he became a father for the first time. Data engineer Mark Temple stepped up to the top job to cover.

Can we please stop accusing Andy Latham of <insert_wild_speculation_here/>? It was bad enough last year with the totally unfounded accusations which were quote frankly appalling.

I get the impression that JB isn't fully convinced by the strategy. From McLaren Live at the start of Q3:

Yes, I got that impression as well. I think Jenson wants to race, and I suspect he was quite annoyed after Canada, where he did what he was told, even though he felt at the time that the pace was too slow.

I'm not sure - the only time I remember Jenson actually trying to race hard and not plodding around to some slow delta was in Bahrain with Checo and yes, it finished his tyres, but IIRC that's the only time they've tried it. Checo has had more aggressive strategies but seems to struggle a bit more with tyre wear in general. I'd like to actually see Jenson being able to race even if it meant losing positions at the end of a stint. I guess that's why I am not in charge of an F1 team! Sadly I do expect them to go for more of the same and aiming for delta times and less pitstops; as you say, let's hope the delta is actually worked out correctly this time!

Jenson may have been pushing quite hard in the first stint at Silverstone, trying to stay with people who were on options while he was on primes. So maybe that contributed to his problems. It's very hard to be sure, as I'm very confused about what happened in that stint.

ISTR that Jenson's RE asked him if the tyres were overheating. What was that about? Surely it should be the pitwall which has that info? All year we've been hearing the Merc drivers being told when their tyres are getting close to going out of range. Why aren't McLaren able to give that kind of useful info, instead of asking the driver?

Can we please stop accusing Andy Latham of <insert_wild_speculation_here/>? It was bad enough last year with the totally unfounded accusations which were quote frankly appalling.

I'm inclined to agree. It may or may not be interesting that he doesn't seem to be Perez's engineer any more but I'm uncomfortable trying to apply the same level of internet tea-leaves reading as would happen for one of the drivers or the management team. For one thing, unlike those people who have chosen to be in a public-facing role, he has no means of defending himself.

Let's just note it as a curiosity and avoid making too many speculative digs, eh?

Pitstops were not among the quick ones, but no disasters either. Maybe Macca have given up trying to set records?

Strategy for Jenson seemed good, although his last pitstop was probably a bit too early. It seems that they felt the need to cover Lewis, but I don't think they needed to react, especially since Lewis' inlap was very slow.

Perez' strategy involved a very long final stint on mediums. It looks like they cut his 2nd stint short to take advantage of the safety car, and there might have been a case for going to a 3-stopper.

Pitstops were not among the quick ones, but no disasters either. Maybe Macca have given up trying to set records?

Strategy for Jenson seemed good, although his last pitstop was probably a bit too early. It seems that they felt the need to cover Lewis, but I don't think they needed to react, especially since Lewis' inlap was very slow.

Perez' strategy involved a very long final stint on mediums. It looks like they cut his 2nd stint short to take advantage of the safety car, and there might have been a case for going to a 3-stopper.

Have the McLaren updates really made such a big difference, or is there some sandbagging going on? Or are some cars being set up to look after tyres, at the expense of their one-lap pace?

We will have more idea after quali, but we won't really know until after the race.

It leaves McLaren with a decision to make. Should they chase the best possible grid position, and then try to run with the leaders, or should they stick with the strategy which has so far yielded the best results - not running in Q3, starting on primes and trying to run a long first stint?

Earlier in the season I noticed that the McLaren looks after its tyres very well when not pushed too hard, but then turns into a tyre-destroyer when they try to run faster, shorter stints. Have the latest updates changed this fundamental characteristic? Or maybe the new tyres?

I see a danger that McLaren might be seduced by their apparent improvement in pace into abandoning the long stint, trying to run at the front, and dropping backwards through the field Merc-style. But if the car really has been changed, maybe they can run at the front.

Hungary turned out to be quite a difficult race for McLaren, because the 2 stop strategy was a bit marginal.

It didn't help that Jenson may have made his first stop a lap or two early, because he was worried about possible front wing damage following the clash with Grosjean. His tyres were going off, but not enough to justify making the first of two stops, and the final stint on primes was definitely too long for both drivers.

I still think 2 stops was the way to go for Jenson, because of the car's characteristics. They did a good job of keeping him out of traffic (apart from the cars stacking up behind him!). Checo lost time behind Hulkenburg and Maldonado, but given the problems he was having in the first stint, there was really no way of keeping him out of the pack.

I think the only real mistake McLaren made was in running Checo in Q3. I was surprised when I saw that, because I couldn't see how it was going to get him any further up the grid.

So now 2 races where McLaren managed not to throw the points away - maybe the team will actually benefit from spending some time in the midfield?

I think the only real mistake McLaren made was in running Checo in Q3. I was surprised when I saw that, because I couldn't see how it was going to get him any further up the grid.

....

I think it was a perfectly reasonable decision at the time. It was more about defending his position rather than advancing. If he had not run then Webber would have got position 9 (because of the car number). It also more or less forced Ricciardo to run. If he was 10th on the grid he would have been on the "dirty side" and also the buffer to the cars behind would be less (ignoring Webber).

The second stint on options was interesting, Button didn't seem to be holding back on the tyres too much, so I'd guess that their decision on whether to go 2/3 stops was taken as a result of how far they got with the options (rather than specifically targeting the number of laps) because there was no initial clear decision either way.

I think it was a perfectly reasonable decision at the time. It was more about defending his position rather than advancing. If he had not run then Webber would have got position 9 (because of the car number). It also more or less forced Ricciardo to run. If he was 10th on the grid he would have been on the "dirty side" and also the buffer to the cars behind would be less (ignoring Webber).

In that situation, I think it would have been best for Checo to wait until almost the end of the session, and then do a lap which was no faster than necessary. I'm fairly sure that's what Jenson did in China, for example.

The second stint on options was interesting, Button didn't seem to be holding back on the tyres too much, so I'd guess that their decision on whether to go 2/3 stops was taken as a result of how far they got with the options (rather than specifically targeting the number of laps) because there was no initial clear decision either way.

Yes, I noticed Jenson setting a fastest lap just after he took the options, and I thought 'WTF?'. It seemed like at that point they were leaning towards a 3-stopper. The problem is that, the more you delay the decision, the more your race can be compromised by running at the 'wrong' pace up to the point where you make the decision.

In fairness, it was a difficult decision. The car doesn't have the pace at the moment, so they really have to try pitting less often if they can. And they kept Jenson in clean air, which is worth a lot in Hungary.