suitepee7:i'm gonna assume by the three you are rooting for, this means tyrion, hodor and jon? i won't say any more if that's the case, because you haven't finished and i'm not gonna be that guy, if you really want to spoil it for yourself then you can find out for yourself online. anyway if we're going that that theory, ned should have been on there. he didn't have a claim, but as far as honour, loyalty and fairness goes, it was hard to beat.and yeahh my bad, thanks for pointing that out! my copies have a dance of dragons split into two so i forgot that it's technically one big book, i usually think of part 2 as the 6th even though it isn't

You are correct on two out of 3 there. I do think that the way Robb was handled in the tv show was much more impactful that in the books, and im rarely one that gets overly attached to characters so i guess ill survive whatever is coming. I will spoil myself reading the book, Im over half in and the only reason i havent finished is it takes time.

I see, my copy of 5th book is one book so i was wondering has he somehow silently finished the 6th book or something.

That's not ruling, that's leading. His responsibilities are akin to commanding an army than ruling a Kingdom. Besides, he was deliberately brought up not being taught how to rule.

[spoilered] is more than an army. Its like a kingdom upon itself, self sufficient as far as economy goes and while usually the burden is shielded by two, the old one is dead and thenew one is not ready yet so he basically takes it all upon himself, including the newcommers from the north. He probably had more "ruling" to do that most kings with how much hinderance he faced. He was a good leader from the first day in there, but he also knows how to rule. at least thats my interperetations from what i read (im still to finnish the 5the book).

Stannis the Mannis!"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails." - Machiavelli, The Prince

Gorfias:I have to write, I don't understand Rob Stark's going after the throne at all. Renley was like, "screw it, it's up for grabs and I look good in a crown and gosh darn it, people like me!"

I hate everything about the Targaryans. Unnatural, incestuous, depending on Dragons. Dany is cool, but her family or the family she would have are not.

Stannis is a jerk that has sold his soul.

Jon Snow: not really up to the governing sort of thing.

Maybe magic will make Theon Greyjoy a whole person again, this time, wiser for his travels. He should be the next king.

Rob Stark wanted individuality and to no longer have to pay fealty to the Southlands; an individual North that no longer was ruled by another, who was removed from the worries of the North.Renly saw his brother as incompetent, and seized. He was no more than an opportunist with a large army and popular support from the land, which are necessary to obtaining a kingdom.The Targaryans we know of are Daenerys, Viserys. Viserys wanted a throne badly, and, being denied power for most of your life would be one to drive one mad. Dany is a decent person, but being nice is not how one can control a kingdom. Justice and strength are necessary tactics to ensure order.

Stannis has not sold his soul: he heeds the words of Gods whose power is actually corporeal, and knows the value of justice, albeit without any mercy.Jon Snow. I agreeTheon Greyjoy will never be the same youth, and, even if he was, he would be a poor king. Where would his loyalties lie? Tied to his father as his family ties demand, or to the honor of Eddard Stark? Would he then switch to the opinions of the Southern lords? He is too self-conscious, which would make poor for one who would have to make decisions. I pity him, but he chose his path.

Rob Stark wanted individuality and to no longer have to pay fealty to the Southlands; an individual North that no longer was ruled by another, who was removed from the worries of the North.

At best, I got the idea that the Lannisters picked a fight with him and the only way to fight back was to agree to be King to those who would help him. Otherwise, personal desires aside, I think he would have fought his Dad's fight and worked to put Stannis in power.

The Targaryans we know of are Daenerys, Viserys. Viserys wanted a throne badly, and, being denied power for most of your life would be one to drive one mad. Dany is a decent person, but being nice is not how one can control a kingdom.

True. As far as I'm concerned, she got Drago killed, willing him to do things he knew were wrong for the circumstances.

Stannis has not sold his soul: he heeds the words of Gods whose power is actually corporeal, and knows the value of justice, albeit without any mercy.

The Onion Knight would disagree! Reminds me of my class' objections of the Illiad. We were fine with the gods protecting heros, but when one of them (Apollo?) magically strikes a human being (can't recall if the guy died, or just was so hurt that he was open season for another human to kill) it seemed like a low blow. There's just something that feels like a low blow about the way Stannis gets Renly. (And if that's a spoiler for anyone, you probably shouldn't be reading this thread!)

Theon Greyjoy ... would be a poor king.... I pity him, but he chose his path.

He did, but more than just about any other character in the show, I appreciate his lust for life.

I heard someone say Jamie Lannister is becoming the "Sawyer" of the show. I find myself rooting for him, but keep reminding myself of his murder of a squire during his captivity. I don't recall that happening in the books. Oh, and what he did to Bran. (in the book, he almost makes you believe the kid had it coming!)