Graflex have a square grove for a light trap and a grove in the center of the top and bottom edges. The Graphic have a square ridge or two 3/4 inch apart for the light trap and the grove for graplok attaching is 2/3 the distance from the outside edge to film plane. Graflex film holders/roll film holders are 1/8 to 1/4 inch wider than the graphics. Early production Graflex are wider than newer versions and I do not when they changed but guess it to be 20's or early 30's. Length of Grafphic and Graflex are the same.
The 23 Graphic I have for Graflok in 4x5 has two square ribs 3/4 inch apart for the light trap and the board is 1/4 inch thick along the edges. A graflex will have the groves for light trap and be about the same thickness.

_________________
While a picture may be worth a thousand words, a quality photograph is worth a million.

Simply : Look at the light trap rib/groove arrangement on the dark slide end of the holder. The holders for the Graflex back have the light trap groove in the holder. The rib, if there is one, will be on the camera back. Some early backs did not have ribs, but felt light seals. The ones for the Graphic (spring or Graflok) backs have the light trap groove in the camera back and the rib(s) are on the holder.

I read the comments and really feel dumb - I am sitting here with 4 rollfilm backs, one for my 4x5 and 3 for my Mamyia Universal (?) and my 23 Century Graphic (?). Could some one explain in simplier terms or a diagram? Janet

I have two different roll holders in front of me in 3x4 size. Both knob wind for 120 film.

Graflex back (old style): looking at the Front side it is smooth with no raised rib. From the back it is labeled "22" GRAFLEX. This is the wider kind that was mentioned.

Graphic back (springback): looking at the Front side there is a raised rib about 5/8 inch from the film opening and the back is labeled "23" GRAPHIC. This is 1/4 inch narrower than the other back. This one works with the Graflok back on my Pacemaker Speed.

I have two different roll holders in front of me in 3x4 size. Both knob wind for 120 film.

Graflex back (old style): looking at the Front side it is smooth with no raised rib. From the back it is labeled "22" GRAFLEX. This is the wider kind that was mentioned.

Graphic back (springback): looking at the Front side there is a raised rib about 5/8 inch from the film opening and the back is labeled "23" GRAPHIC. This is 1/4 inch narrower than the other back. This one works with the Graflok back on my Pacemaker Speed.

The first back is for 2 1/4 square and has rollers.

The second back is for 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 and has rollers.

There may be other labeling.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Dave

Hi Dave:

I recently bought a 2x3 Pacemaker. It came with two roll film holders, both of them labeled "Graflex 120 Roll Film Holder." Both are the same width. One has a winding knob and is for eight 2 1/4 x 3 2/4 exposures (23 Graphic?) and the other has a lever and is for ten 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 exposures (RH10?).

The knob style holder slides onto the camera and is held by the metal slides on the Graflok back, but does not have a "lip" on the side by the dark slide to lock it into position like the Lever style does. The knob style isn't firmly seated and when I pull the dark slide, if I don't hold it in place, the whole back slides off the camera. I just shot my first roll of film with it and I'm pretty sure I'm going to have problems with light leaking in from that side. The lever style holder snaps into place and is held firmly by the lip when I pull out the slide. I don't think I'll have any light leak problems with it.

Does this mean the knob style is what you refer to as a "Graflex back (old style)?" Are there any clever ideas about how to use it without it falling off the camera when I pull the slide?

I suggest that you check that knob wind roll film back to see if the "lip" was removed before you got it. I seem to recall a thread a while back (I think in the Accessories Help Forum) where someone had a roll film back that had been modified in a very professional manner so that it no longer had the "lip" or ridge. If I recall correctly this was discovered only by careful examination of the unit.

I suggest that you check that knob wind roll film back to see if the "lip" was removed before you got it. I seem to recall a thread a while back (I think in the Accessories Help Forum) where someone had a roll film back that had been modified in a very professional manner so that it no longer had the "lip" or ridge. If I recall correctly this was discovered only by careful examination of the unit.

C. Henry

Hi Henry:

That's an interesting question. The bottom of the lever-style roll film holder has a "lip" sticking up on the dark slide side that, when the holder is inserted, fits down inside the camera film opening and prevents the holder from sliding back out once the metal strips on the Graflok back are pushed into position. The other knob-style holder actually has a groove where the lip is on the other holder. This leads me to believe that it was made to be used with a camera that has a "lip" on the camera body to fit into the groove on the holder and help hold it in place. The groove is clearly molded into the holder and not a later alteration because it continues down both sides of the holder.

I think the holder wasn't made to be used with my little 2x3 Pacemaker, but I am hoping that if I am careful with it, especially when drawing out the slide, I can use it. Otherwise I'll need to figure out what camera it would fit and see if I can swap or sell it.

Craig,
For what its worth, I dug out some sheet film holders in 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 size and my 2x3 Pacemaker Crown. Graflex style sheet film holders are the same width as the Graphic sheet film holder type 5. The Graflex style holders do fit my Graflok back Crown Graphic, but as they do not have the ridge to form the light trap I don't know how well they would work.

As I wrote before, in 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 size the Glaflex style rollholder is wider than a Graphic type rollholder. The Graflex type will not fit into the Graflok back of my 3x4 Pacemaker Speed Graphic but will fit a Graflex RB with a Graflex back.

Regards,
Dave_________________I guess that I could get a digital camera but it would be obsolete in a couple of years (three tops). Or I could use my 3x4 Anniversary Speed Graphic. Heck, it's been obsolete for 50 years. That's way better than digital.

Thank you very much for the quick replies and the link. It seems clear that the back wasn't made to be used with my 2x3 Pacemaker. I've shot a roll with it and when it comes back later this week I'll be able to see if there is a light leak problem as I suspect there must be. If so, I'll put it in the drawer and look for an appropriate 6x9 back (I like the format). If not, I'm good to go.