If Ben could see what our country has become since 1860, he would probably say, I warned you.-- jim k, Austin

jim, lol, I think you're absolutely right. My country is still here, its just buried under crushing layers of a statist theocracy.-- Mike, Norwalk

I'm with you Jim.-- cal, lewisville, tx

What was so great prior to 1860? There were still miserable people back then, check out Thoreau et al. Liberty was not so prevalent in Puritan Mass where you could be hung for being an Atheist, or you were property if you were black in the pre 1860 south. And Mike and Cal think Jim is correct. You guys really have a warped sense of Liberty! Even since 1860 it has taken 140 years to get Liberty right. We have had to work for it and earn it but have made progress with voting rights, housing rights, etcetera. The old society was structured to deny many their Liberty! You guys really have a warped sense of what Liberty is!-- Waffler, Smith

PS: Women did not get Liberty to well after 1860. -- Waffler, Smith

I would say "Where real liberty dwells... Its amazing how our liberty is gradually eaten away by apathy, ignorance, and. as Mike puts it, ''statist theocracy'. And yet the people of America remain seated eating their double cheese burgers, watching the boob tube, and reveling in nationalistic and patriotic euphoria - all this while our liberty is being destroyed under the banner of fear. Liberty can only be preserved by individuals and communities who are vigilant and active in its preservation. We have allowed our military to take over our country at the expense of our liberty - remember BF other great words 'They who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety'
-- RBESRQ

Waffler, I see you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth again. Why are you putting down the prevalent Puritan Mass. experience? They were just executing very well your religious doctrine of the group has rights. Hey, if you don't like what they've done with their home - force them out (now that's a warped sense of Liberty); if you don't like their religion - kill them (after all, those selfish witches wouldn't conform to Waffler World's version of law or the law of the community). There have always been and, there will always be miserable people. That has nothing to do with law, the Constitution or where liberty dwells. As for me, where liberty dwells, there is my country. In fact The liberty set forth by the Constitution (almost a century after your example) was that each and every individual was an heir to the King of the Universe and equal in all ways before the law to any sovereign (king, Czar, majority,etc.) on earth. That's the liberty of my country. FYI, because many morals, virtuous concepts of family, lawful understanding of allodial freehold, and what law is in general (much do to government propaganda, intervention, rules and actions - especially since 1860) has been lost to the intellect of modern man. Rules (man's statutes he calls law) have changed accordingly. That which you call freedom and liberty, I stand with the founders and call it tyranny. One has to remember, the founders were only making up an outline of historical truths / eternal principles, the specific rules (codes, statutes, etc.) would change as needed. Altering the Constitution from a limitation on government to directing individuals is in direct conflict with the founders intent and a lawful execution of the Constitution. The old structure was a work in progress in throwing off the chains of tyranny - seeking light and liberty. The de facto statist theocracy that now infests this land is only about power, control, and the destruction of individual liberty. Robert, said well. Waffler doesn't understand that people like you and me, that differ so radically on religion (you claiming no religion, me claiming Christianity), are both being afflicted by the national establishment of religion that now infests this nation.-- Mike, Norwalk

-- aa, hb

I'd like to complement Benjamin Franklin's quote with another by one of his contemporaries ~ “Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
~ Samuel Adams quote
-- J Carlton, Calgary

This quote is the very reason I argue with those that wish to impose servitude upon the American people. Americans should remember that their country is unique in all the world and that as the undisputed 'superpower' we should be cautious about wielding our sword in other lands or against the American people themselves.-- E Archer, NYC

-- aa, hb

All liberty in this our country comes from Washington, D.C. Ask any black school child from the south or hate crime defendants who are in jail, or minority person who now live freely in majority neighborhodds etcetera. ALL LIBERTY comes from DC. Native Americans know this also and for years have looked to DC to protect them from localities and states that would dency them Liberty! -- Waffler, Smith

Waffler you are a delusional human being and I feel sorry for you. You're obviously suffering very badly from Stockholm syndrome. -- J Carlton, Calgary

Waffler, you've defined well the differences between us. The lawful premise establishing the States united (my representatives, obviously not yours / not ours) guarded freedom and liberty for their posterity by recognizing God as the origin of all liberty, freedom, rights, law and justice. If Washington is the originator and purveyor of all liberty, it is then god with the ability to take liberty. It is exactly that rejection of the founder's lawful premise that promulgates Washington's and the several State's promotion of despotism, tyranny, and otherwise unlawful criminal acts. I asked the black family 2 doors down (both from the deep South) where their liberty and freedom came from. Both said God (they're both university professors that moved here to teach their specialties) I have a close relative on a tribal counsel that is in constant battle with both State and National government's encroachment on their liberty (a diametrically opposing realization from your government school and otherwise liberal thought pool). Waffler, do you know that Native Americans are aware of their actual surroundings and history? (oops, NOT by your statement)-- Mike, Norwalk

I do not remember writing the line above under my name , but I agree with it.-- jim k, Austin,Tx

(-; jim, I know, sometimes I pull up these quotes and this Mike from Norwalk says some good stuff that I agree with and then, I say to my self, self, wow, that's one smart guy ;-)-- Mike, Norwalk

Jeez, Waffler, do you ever re-consider your words? You have defined EXACTLY the difference between Liberty and Statism. In your world, your rights come from Washington, i.e. the State, and whatever Washington says goes. Prior to the American Revolution the King owned and ruled all -- whatever he said goes. The American people united around a declaration that the rights of humankind are a faculty of birth, inalienable and from the 'Creator' whomever or whatever that may be. The King said, 'Like Hell, I am your king!' and war followed. For the first time in millennia, a people were able to sever the ties of perpetual servitude (a the people were but subjects of the Crown and Church up until then). I do believe that Liberty is a function of consciousness and we are still awakening from deep-seated conditioning imposed upon us by the traditions, cultures, and prejudices of the preceding generations. There is no escaping Natural Law -- there are no loop holes from 'as you sow, so shall you reap' which is well established truth philosophically and scientifically. Liberty is a constant process for there are still some delusions that keep us and each other down. The 'truth process' never ends...-- E Archer, NYC

Sorry for the repeat, guys/gals, this was posted just a few months ago. Still fitting though. :-) Cheers.-- Editor, Liberty Quotes

Merrill Jenkins, Monetary Realist (1919-1979) said "Freedom is the absence of legislation." Waffler's words and Waffler herself are as useful as tits on a boar! There are only two possible economic systems, barter and slavery. God commanded a barter system with "thou shal not steal." The Constitution mandates
a barter system of gold and silver coins, Art.1, Sec.10, that were erroneously called "money" In Washinton, Lincoln made slaves of us all with his unconstitutional legal tender acts that permit government to take everything sans payment and his contemporary, Horace Greeley, said Lincoln's system "is no less cruel than the old system of chatel slavery," Franklin erred in saying :two things certain are death and taxes.: ALL
taxes were abolished when we were relieved of our silver coins in 1968 as they were the sole means of of paying taxes. The head of the New York Fed said in 1944 "taxation for revenue is obsolete" See Alan Stang's comments on that: www.morpix.biz/x17 Instead of abolishing death, our misleaders in Washington strive to expedite our demise via abortion, alum, alloxan, aspartame, chlorination, fluoridation, bromine, MSG, subsidized milk, sugar and tobacco. To understand
better, see: www.morpix.biz/x4 and subscribe free to: jalpan@cc.rr.com Find 6 of Jenkins' books free at: www.morpix.biz/x15 To see about 500 comments from others about Jenkins, Google this as shown: "Merrill Jenkins" money That man had no peers!
-- Anonymous

More on our extermination by fluoridation: For 13 years, the professionals at the EPA have been telling the world that fluoride is killing people including Waffler.
For several sites, google: nteu fluoride then
google royal rife fot the history of his cancer cure suppressed 70 years. HISTORY IS NOT A THEORY-- Anonymous

I wouldn't remove a single word.-- RBESRQ

Editor, no apologies needed, only thank you's from we the commenters and readers. It is still very fitting.-- Mike, Norwalk