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Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

Calling Gordon's contract toxic is a bit steep. Perhaps in NOLA, where he clearly stated he did not want to be beforehand.

You don't consider a contract for a Player that has only played 42 games last year at $14+ mil a year 2 Year ( 3rd Player Option ) contract toxic? I consider it big enough to scare a lot of Teams away.....especially given whatever injury concerns that he has.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

The trouble with a statement like that is that there is a reason people are the number 1 or number 3 or number 5 option. Yes, Lopez took more shots per game than Roy, but a lot of that is BECAUSE he's a better option offensively than Roy, he was higher in Brooklyn's pecking order than Roy was in Indiana's, and he was higher while Brooklyn was a better offensive team to begin with. Brooklyn and Indiana had virtually the same pace played last year (92.8 verse 91.2, two of the slowest paces in the league), and Brook *did* take ~4 more shots per game than Roy, however Brooklyn's offense was significantly more efficient than ours (105 verse 101.6). What this amounts to is Brook is capable of being the centerpiece of a top 10 NBA offense, while Roy was the fourth option in an average to below average offense.

Essentially when you make a statement like "if he got more shots he would have scored more," you are placing the egg before the chicken, mistaking cause and effect -- he got less shots for a reason.

I thought a good deal of the reason Roy got fewer shots was that the guards had trouble making entry passes. That was a topic of discussion many times this past season.

Both of the players shoot close to 50%, so if Roy gets as many shots as Lopez (being 4 more per game),and converts at his usual rate, their scoring averages are almost equal.

Ah well, in any case, both teams should be happy they have these guys.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

You don't consider a contract for a Player that has only played 42 games last year at $14+ mil a year 2 Year ( 3rd Player Option ) contract toxic? I consider it big enough to scare a lot of Teams away.....especially given whatever injury concerns that he has.

Because he was hurt? Is Derrick Rose' contract toxic? Better player but out longer, makes significantly more.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

I thought a good deal of the reason Roy got fewer shots was that the guards had trouble making entry passes. That was a topic of discussion many times this past season.

Both of the players shoot close to 50%, so if Roy gets as many shots as Lopez (being 4 more per game),and converts at his usual rate, their scoring averages are almost equal.

Ah well, in any case, both teams should be happy they have these guys.

Let's be honest here... Brook shot 52% and Roy shot 45% last season... that's a huge difference. For his career, Roy is about a 48% shooter from the field, and Lopez has never been lower than 49%. I think it's very clear which of the two is a better scorer. I love Roy, and I think he's better at basically everything else, but there's no question that Lopez is a more efficient and prolific scorer.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

Because he was hurt? Is Derrick Rose' contract toxic? Better player but out longer, makes significantly more.

His contract doesn't help his value but he still has value.

I wasn't suggesting that he doesn't have value....I'm saying that his contract coupled with the 51 total games that he has played over the last 2 years could be viewed as being a strong deterrant for many Teams.

Last edited by CableKC; 07-01-2013 at 07:33 PM.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

You don't consider a contract for a Player that has only played 42 games last year at $14+ mil a year 2 Year ( 3rd Player Option ) contract toxic? I consider it big enough to scare a lot of Teams away.....especially given whatever injury concerns that he has.

If that is true, where does that put Danny Granger?

If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

While the Pacers are hoping a cost-efficient Hansbrough will help stabilize things on the bench, they'd also like Hill to become an integral part of the revamped bench. Hill fits a model Bird prefers -- a four-year college player with a reputation for being a team player and a gym rat.

Last season, Hill finished as Arizona's second-leading scorer (13.4 points) and second-leading rebounder (5.3). He considered leaving school a year early before opting to return for his senior year, saying he didn't want to finish college after a first-round NIT loss. He's also a solid defender and the scouting report says he can shoot 3-pointers, too.

When asked to define a successful rookie season for Hill, Vogel responded with three words: "Winning a championship."

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

The trouble with a statement like that is that there is a reason people are the number 1 or number 3 or number 5 option. Yes, Lopez took more shots per game than Roy, but a lot of that is BECAUSE he's a better option offensively than Roy, he was higher in Brooklyn's pecking order than Roy was in Indiana's, and he was higher while Brooklyn was a better offensive team to begin with. Brooklyn and Indiana had virtually the same pace played last year (92.8 verse 91.2, two of the slowest paces in the league), and Brook *did* take ~4 more shots per game than Roy, however Brooklyn's offense was significantly more efficient than ours (105 verse 101.6). What this amounts to is Brook is capable of being the centerpiece of a top 10 NBA offense, while Roy was the fourth option in an average to below average offense.

Essentially when you make a statement like "if he got more shots he would have scored more," you are placing the egg before the chicken, mistaking cause and effect -- he got less shots for a reason.

Ah, Dece. You're still at it. Glad to see that the sig hasn't changed you

Aight, let's drill some holes in your theory:

1) Brooklyn started Gerald Wallace and Reggie Evans. Both of them are almost a liability on the offensive end and they rarely shot the ball. Gerald Wallace attempted 6.6 shots per game and Reggie Evans attempted 3.3 shots per game. So, when the Nets wanted to go inside they were forced to go to Lopez. We weren't forced to go to Hibbert when we wanted to go inside. We had West as well.

We will see if Lopez atempts the same number of shots now that the Nets have Pierce and Garnett. My guess is that his shot attempts fall significantly unless the Nets let go of Blatche that took some shots as a big off the bench.

2) As always you're missing an important point. How often was Brook Lopez assisted in his baskets? In other words, how often did he create his own shot?

Brook Lopez was assisted in 356 of his 570 baskets this season. That's a 62.5% percentage. In the playoffs, 70.% of his baskets were assisted. Hibbert on the other hand was assisted in 52.5% of his baskets during the regular season. In the playoffs, only 50% of his baskets were assisted.

Why did this happen? Well, there are several reason. One reason is that the Nets have a superior playmaking PG in Deron Williams. Another reason is that Brook Lopez is a superior shooter for a big making him an ideal target for the Pick and Pop. But the most important reason is that Hibbert is a superior post player than Lopez. Lopez can play in the post. He knows how to play ball and he isn't a stiff. But Hibbert is simply a superior post player. He attempted hook shots at a higher volume and scored on way better efficiency at them (61.2% versus 46.6%).

I don't know how many times I have to tell this but it's of vital importance that your big can create his own shot. Lopez can certainly do it as well but Hibbert has shown that he's better at it than him.

People may say that Hibbert has not shot 50% for a full season in his career yet (49.7% and 49.5% come pretty close but whatever). Want to know what I answer to this? Hibbert shot 50% in last year's playoffs and 51.1% in this year's playoffs. When it mattered the most.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

While the Pacers are hoping a cost-efficient Hansbrough will help stabilize things on the bench, they'd also like Hill to become an integral part of the revamped bench. Hill fits a model Bird prefers -- a four-year college player with a reputation for being a team player and a gym rat.

Last season, Hill finished as Arizona's second-leading scorer (13.4 points) and second-leading rebounder (5.3). He considered leaving school a year early before opting to return for his senior year, saying he didn't want to finish college after a first-round NIT loss. He's also a solid defender and the scouting report says he can shoot 3-pointers, too.

When asked to define a successful rookie season for Hill, Vogel responded with three words: "Winning a championship."

Well the Summer League championship is on July 12th, so I hope he can help win that...

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Mike Dunleavy has gone ahead and verbally committed to sign two-year, $6M deal with Bulls, according to sources with knowledge of the deal

So in 2 years, it'll be a battle between Cleveland and Detroit as to who gets Dunleavy. He's being tossed around the central division.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

Give me our original starting 5 a bench of CJ, OJ, Lance, Copeland, and Mahimi. Hill probably wont get much PT being a rookie as we never really play our rookies their first year. Lance of course grabbing the most minutes replacing PG and DG and winning the 6th man of the year. That's 10 deep easily for us then we have Hill and Plumlee to round out our squad at 12. Giving us the option to carry 3 more guys if needed.

oops forgot about Gerald Green just like everybody else. He will look good in a suit.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

Ah, Dece. You're still at it. Glad to see that the sig hasn't changed you

Aight, let's drill some holes in your theory:

1) Brooklyn started Gerald Wallace and Reggie Evans. Both of them are almost a liability on the offensive end and they rarely shot the ball. Gerald Wallace attempted 6.6 shots per game and Reggie Evans attempted 3.3 shots per game. So, when the Nets wanted to go inside they were forced to go to Lopez. We weren't forced to go to Hibbert when we wanted to go inside. We had West as well.

We will see if Lopez atempts the same number of shots now that the Nets have Pierce and Garnett. My guess is that his shot attempts fall significantly unless the Nets let go of Blatche that took some shots as a big off the bench.

2) As always you're missing an important point. How often was Brook Lopez assisted in his baskets? In other words, how often did he create his own shot?

Brook Lopez was assisted in 356 of his 570 baskets this season. That's a 62.5% percentage. In the playoffs, 70.% of his baskets were assisted. Hibbert on the other hand was assisted in 52.5% of his baskets during the regular season. In the playoffs, only 50% of his baskets were assisted.

Why did this happen? Well, there are several reason. One reason is that the Nets have a superior playmaking PG in Deron Williams. Another reason is that Brook Lopez is a superior shooter for a big making him an ideal target for the Pick and Pop. But the most important reason is that Hibbert is a superior post player than Lopez. Lopez can play in the post. He knows how to play ball and he isn't a stiff. But Hibbert is simply a superior post player. He attempted hook shots at a higher volume and scored on way better efficiency at them (61.2% versus 46.6%).

I don't know how many times I have to tell this but it's of vital importance that your big can create his own shot. Lopez can certainly do it as well but Hibbert has shown that he's better at it than him.

People may say that Hibbert has not shot 50% for a full season in his career yet (49.7% and 49.5% come pretty close but whatever). Want to know what I answer to this? Hibbert shot 50% in last year's playoffs and 51.1% in this year's playoffs. When it mattered the most.

You successfully drilled exactly 0 holes. Excellent work. Brook Lopez got to play Chicago in the playoffs, one of the toughest interior defenses in the league, and STILL out produced Hibbert's vaunted Miami series... a team with exactly 0 interior defense. Lopez would average 30 a game in a Miami series. (though the Nets would still lose). Also discounting Gerald Wallace's offensive game is foolish. He took a smaller role because he had excellent options ahead of him in Lopez and Williams, but he is not a scrub by any measure. Dude has scored 15 ppg or more in 8, EIGHT seasons. EIGHT seasons of 15+ ppg, guy has no offense. Right. What a joke of a comment, you are making it harder for me to take you seriously when you state things that show you have no idea what you are talking about. If Lopez were on our team he would be the number 1 option. Hibbert is on our team, he is the number 4 option. No GM or coach in the league is more scared of Hibbert's offensive game relative to Lopez's. No coach is shaking in his boots at the thought of Hibbert dropping 40 on them. His career high is 30... Lopez has gone over 30 fifteen plus times. I'm done with this...you have no argument and homers gonna home.

The question isn't who is a better player, it's who's better on offense. If Hibbert can be consistent he is the better overall player, but there is absolutely no argument for him being the better OFFENSIVE player. Bring a better argument next time.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

You successfully drilled exactly 0 holes. Excellent work. Brook Lopez got to play Chicago in the playoffs, one of the toughest interior defenses in the league, and STILL out produced Hibbert's vaunted Miami series... a team with exactly 0 interior defense. Lopez would average 30 a game in a Miami series. (though the Nets would still lose). Also discounting Gerald Wallace's offensive game is foolish. He took a smaller role because he had excellent options ahead of him in Lopez and Williams, but he is not a scrub by any measure. Dude has scored 15 ppg or more in 8, EIGHT seasons. EIGHT seasons of 15+ ppg, guy has no offense. Right. What a joke of a comment, you are making it harder for me to take you seriously when you state things that show you have no idea what you are talking about. If Lopez were on our team he would be the number 1 option. Hibbert is on our team, he is the number 4 option. No GM or coach in the league is more scared of Hibbert's offensive game relative to Lopez's. No coach is shaking in his boots at the thought of Hibbert dropping 40 on them. His career high is 30... Lopez has gone over 30 fifteen plus times. I'm done with this...you have no argument and homers gonna home.

The question isn't who is a better player, it's who's better on offense. If Hibbert can be consistent he is the better overall player, but there is absolutely no argument for him being the better OFFENSIVE player. Bring a better argument next time.

Just because you don't acknowledge his points, do not make them less valid. The assist to scoring numbers are quite eye popping. The shooting % on post moves is also telling. Again, whether you acknowledge it or not, does not matter. Not to mention, Gerald Wallace is horrible offensively now. You clearly haven't watched him much lately. Not average, not good, he's horrible offensively. Literally only 7 PPG on 39% shooting despite playing 31 MPG.

As for your argument about his "domination" of the Heat. Well, he played them two times last season and averaged:

14.5 PPG, 7 RPG, 1.5 APG, .568%, .5 steals, 2 blocks, 1 TO

Small sample size, but lets not mistake Brook Lopez for Shaq any time soon.

Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

You successfully drilled exactly 0 holes. Excellent work. Brook Lopez got to play Chicago in the playoffs, one of the toughest interior defenses in the league, and STILL out produced Hibbert's vaunted Miami series... a team with exactly 0 interior defense. Lopez would average 30 a game in a Miami series. (though the Nets would still lose). Also discounting Gerald Wallace's offensive game is foolish. He took a smaller role because he had excellent options ahead of him in Lopez and Williams, but he is not a scrub by any measure. Dude has scored 15 ppg or more in 8, EIGHT seasons. EIGHT seasons of 15+ ppg, guy has no offense. Right. What a joke of a comment, you are making it harder for me to take you seriously when you state things that show you have no idea what you are talking about. If Lopez were on our team he would be the number 1 option. Hibbert is on our team, he is the number 4 option. No GM or coach in the league is more scared of Hibbert's offensive game relative to Lopez's. No coach is shaking in his boots at the thought of Hibbert dropping 40 on them. His career high is 30... Lopez has gone over 30 fifteen plus times. I'm done with this...you have no argument and homers gonna home.

The question isn't who is a better player, it's who's better on offense. If Hibbert can be consistent he is the better overall player, but there is absolutely no argument for him being the better OFFENSIVE player. Bring a better argument next time.

There is no need to be rude to what I thought was a thoughtful argument.

And no one is afraid of Brooke Lopez either, although I do agree he is better offensively (but not in the low post, where Hibbert's value shines in today's NBA).

In truth, I don't think Lopez would've done as well as Hibbert against the Heat because Lopez is much more of a face-the-basket player. Bosh IMO would've done a much better job against that compared to the *****-making he received from Hibbert. Likewise, the Bulls likely would've contained Hibbert better than Lopez. Just match-ups, like usual.