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But it goes beyond fear- it is also a matter of prudence. The manner in which ideas like that are released makes all the difference. If you just throw something like that into the court and call free-for-all, heaven knows what will happen. If you need an example, a pretty obvious one is forthcoming in the form of nuclear fission technology; this got thrown out there, and suddenly the rest of the century is spent in an arms race, with world power entirely redistributed, and the human world brought closest that is has ever been to annihilation. If you become the possesser of world-changing knowledge like that, you begin to take a far less casual stance about what you are willing to let out. Do you want WW3 in a few months time on your conscience?

Perhaps you had too much to drink a day back, or had mild food-poisoning, or, even more likely, you had very poor circulation when you woke up, and oxygen was slow in getting to your brain as a result.

I am not poking fun, don't mistake me- just saying that it is difficult to extrapolate global changes from singular personal experiences. Now if everyone was reporting symptoms that day, that is something. If it is only people involved in sites like this, claiming heightened psychic connectedness, you can't take that at face value, since you have potenial confirmation bias with people who are aware of the idea beforehand. It is really very difficult to prove anything that way in a responsible manner.

The German, the Russians and the americans all have fantastic antigravity technology and free energy stuff, to bad they will never go public with the stuff. They rather see us all dead then reveal the secrets.

I don't know if that is true- it may or may not be.

But if it is, maybe if so many countries have cracked the secret to free energy and anti-gravity, and other technologies, there is a somewhat benevolent reason they have chosen not to release their knowledge.

Consider only free-energy, for instance- something for nothing. If everyone on the planet had access to the technology that could produce energy for free, what is left before they can produce machines and forces that can do unlimited work? Raw materials and labor. But we already have extremely powerful computers today- if there was a significant reason to, robotic systems could be mass-engineered and produced in months that could perform most kinds of human labor, and with unlimited energy to do this, it could be done even faster than it could today. Now you have unlimited energy, unlimited labor power via the robots, and once that labor goes into motion, unlimited raw materials mined and comendered. Now, only months after, there are war machines storming over every continent, competing to secure land and resources for their respective groups.

You might say that it would not be used for war in this manner, since everyone would have everything they need- but the thing you would be missing is that once the powers which check potential aggression are removed, competition and war are the most natural human expressions.

A reasonable explanation for witholding technologies like this is the inability to forsee what catastrophic effects they would have on the world. It is easy to say, "I want anti-gravity, it would fix all our problems, and I am angry at the man for witholding it", but if you can't predict what danger you place the world in as a result, it is a foolhardy thing to risk letting it out.

At any rate, real or imagined, subconscious projections or the astral armies of satan, people do have bad experiences with these Ouija boards. Not saying I know why, but it does not seem like the funnest time if you're into divination and augery and such.

I always supposed the vibrations had something to do with passing into a sleep paralysis state; we are not really meant to be awake for that, so maybe they are a sort of nerve-firing that happens just prior to that state?

Lol... I think that is a rehatching of the account that pilots on both sides of the war ecountered UFO vehicles tailing them- the "foo-fighter" stories. And even if they were marked with such symbols, lol, I doubt that anyone would have gotten a clear enough look at one to know beyond imagining it that they were so marked.

Oh, I think you might have taken me the wrong way, I am not sure- by my last post, I meant that electricity and physics are the same field, not separate fields.

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You gotta keep in mind that we're talking about things like free energy, interstellar travel, teleportation, maybe even time travel, and of course, weaponry beyond comprehension. It makes sense to me that "some people" wouldn't like normal folks like us knowing about it and more importantly, experimenting with it. Which is what Kurt does and why he says that we need to research on our own. And he's 100% right.

Yeah, I think "free energy", relying on the zero-point field and other concepts are an interesting pursuit. There definitely are rumors that devices utilizing the techology exist in various parts of the world. Stan Meyer's car turned out to be a fraud, and I am not sure about Greer and his Orion project, it looks sketchy, but there is still debate about whether the Testatika machine of the "Methernitha" commune is what it claims to be.

I was never able to make up my mind about it though. On the one hand, it is hard to believe objects like the Testatika can have existed for this many years without having been exploited and made part of mainstream science; on the other, I guess it is conceivable if there is active supression of this material by interested parties.

And I have seen Kurt's work . Even if it does not always yield results, it is quite worthwhile to investigate modern theoretical science for yourself, if you have the background to do so. If no one ever questioned established views, we could be told progressively more elaborate lies, and no one would ever become wise to it.

In fact I've been getting really interested in people like Tesla and some of the less well known electrical engineers who crossed the line between physics and electricity (and magnetism).

I love Tesla too... there has been talk that he would have released much more of his work, if he was not prevented by plutocrats like J.P. Morgan wanting to monetize all of his discoveries; not sure to what extent it is true, but definitely noteworthy.

There definitely is not a line between physics and electricity though, unless you are talking about the theoretical integration of the two by the likes of Tesla and Faraday, etc.

Charles Tart is probably the biggest one for me who is trying to approach OBE from a scientific perspective, and doing it through an established experimental paradigm, in a thoroughly responsible fashion. The Monroe institute was partially scientific in its approach, but Robert Monroe just wasn't interested in proving things in as rigorous a scientific perspective as Tart, and he did not have the background to do it; the two were friends though, and he had respect for Tarts work. He has done less research as of late, but he is still active, and he published a book lately, titled in no uncertain terms, The End of Materialism .

I would also recomend some of his prior works, and he has indeed been prolific. He also, even more recently released another book in 2010, but I have not read it.

For example, a lot of Icke's moon theories come from that African guy (Credo) and how do you cite anecdotal evidence besides saying "this guy told me this"?

That part is true, and taking Icke on faith, and taking it on faith that his African contact knows what he is talking about is about the same thing, with no other supporting evidence; it is different when you present other people's ideas without ever stating where they came from, though. It is a very different thing to be quoting a sufi you met in Istanbul, and a physicist you know in Cambridge; one of them is not necessarily more credible than the other, but when you are dealing with stuff as potentially out there as Icke and Wilcock do, you should tell people where the information is coming from. There are countless times when Wilcock is quoting from a certain document, and does not bother to provide a copy of this document, or even how he came to possess it. There is also a lot that I think is pure speculation on Wilcock's part, and he doesn't bother to draw a declared line between what he has sources for and what he is coming up with himself. These guys are teaching people that you should not have blind faith in established social institutions, which is a good thing, but you can't trade blind faith in governments and churches and the established scientific community for blind faith in their exposure of these groups.

On topic here though... somehow it wouldn't surprise me if the Apollo missions really did reveal moonbases. The thing that forces governments to tell the truth is media exposure- you can't lie as easily when there are 14 odd guys with cameras watching it happen. When only a couple people are there, though, and the matter is of revolutionary importance... stuff like that tends to stay secret. I can easily believe it is possible that there were alien structures on the dark side of the moon, since if they were found, they would not have told us anyhow, and no one would be in a position to force them to.

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Like Joseph P. Farrell (who incidentally has proposed a theory about space-nazis that have been living in a space colony since WWII)

Haha- I should look that up. Where do the space-nazis live, by chance?

This fella David Wilcock has some interesting ideas dealing with a dodecahedron being at the basis of the Earths energy, which corresponds with ley lines and the great pyramids, etc.

Haha... you need to be careful with Wilcock, lol. He is really open to a lot of far out ideas, but he does not discriminate in what he takes on and believes. If you follow him closely enough, you begin to see he is one of those that thinks that HAARP stations are at the root of illuminati plots, and that there are actual working stargates allowing people to travel though space and time. Not impossible, but really out there, and he never really cites his sources for the crazy stuff, so you are just left to believe it on faith, lol. You really need to maintain healthy skepticism with him, just like Icke.

And the same with projection- I have done it, but all instances have come with great effort for me, and are few and far between. And as I said before, the same is defintely true of all of these things- it takes great time and effort to master them. Now that you are studying Chinese, do you see yourself knowing 10,000 Hanzi, or following a college lecture on Chinese literature in Mandarin anytime soon?

I think we can both agree that when something is hard, there are 2 people selling the "shortcut" for everyone who knows anything true.

I remember the Niburu stuff starting in 1997. Zecharia Stichin and his ramblings set it off. Was supposed to come 1999; it missed its appointment. It was rescheduled for 2001, 2003, 2007 in succession, and was still truant. Some people (Sylivia Brown and others I think) immediately attached it to 2012 when it failed to come 2003. I would not bank on it, at this point- Niburu has a pretty bad track record with showing up on time... has difficulty holding a job, to be frank.

There are not more people doing this because it is hard. Why don't you learn Mandarin as a non-native? Why don't you develop concert pianist skills? Why don't you become an accomplished landscape or portrait artist? There are lots of cool things that few people can take up because there is tremendous effort and time commitment involved.

And in all of those previous pursuits, there is unquestioned consensus that they represent real and possible skills. Projection, however, requires that you have a mindset and have read information that has convinced you that it is possible, otherwise you would not have considered it. So the set of people who are both willing to put in the effort, and who believe it to be a tangible possibility are few.

Hypothetically yes...if you consider the theory that everything is consciousness.

Yes, I thought that is what you might have intended there, but was unsure.

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More likely than not, astral projection is equivalent to lucid dreaming, just entered in different ways and therefore people are the ones who make up categories. The rules may seem different in each of them but who's to say that we are not experiencing two different kinds of dreams or that the very belief that we astral project is what changes the rules. Try to think outside the box instead of following what everyone else says.

It is not a matter of following groups or thinking as an individual. We are entertaining arguments here, and I have provided different examples of how many people approach these problems. I have never presented my own views in this matter, since they are not relevant. It may well be that these several events are the same type of phenomenon, but it has not been proven, and hence you cannot make the leap that what goes for one goes for the others. We are discussing a matter of absolutes, and you should see that no amount of proof is suficient to prove almost any absolute.

It is one thing for you to think to yourself that it is unlikely that you will be harmed in OBE situations; it is quite another to tell others that it is not possible they should ever come to harm- likely no one is qualified to make such a claim.