MattisManzel: HelmutLeitner? told me about Amazon EC2. One could set up and preconfigure all kind of services for a wiki-Woodstock and activate them just for the specific weekend which seems easy and pretty cheap. Maybe exquisite for online-flashmobs and flashmob-supercomputing too.

MattisManzel: K, wiki-Woodstock moved to the eArt-wiki-hive. I remember the effords in 05 as intense and exiting. Sure, in net-time that’s ages ago. Some more interesting tools for a global collab-jam should have been added in the meantime … :) Let’s collect a bit on current possibilites.

MattisManzel: The geeks repetitive online-happening for everybody. Repetitive is when you do something and then do it again (and probably again and so forth). Considering that we might ask ourselves: “Should we do it again?”. The next question - after positively answering the first one - would be: “When?” Or did I misunderstand something?

IsabelleVodjdani: Is it the post-TCE syndrome* ? Everything seems to be so quiet here. Is it belivable that there will be a WikiWoodstock running on 10-12 june 2005? Maybe we should postpone the WikiWoodstock, hum ?

(something as a post partum blues after the french No to the European Constitution)

MattisManzel: Hey, sure 10-12 of June was madness, nonetheless. Let’s make it a little beta 0.1 wiki-Woodstock or something. I made some steam for a free and open cross-platform collaborative editor, it’s the essential tool for wiki-Wooodstock and we will not get the backup we need from the open source world when continuing to work with MoonEdit, as it simply is not open source. It’s supercool, but it’s not open source, sorry. Let’s start wiki-Woodstock nevertheless, temporaryly using MoonEdit, but aware that it will have to be replaced (unless Tom gives it free) within short time likely by gobby or chalks. Wikimania is 4. to 8. of August 2005. That’s maybe the time for a wiki-Woodstock1.

MattisManzel: K. Hi Isabelle. Le-Je-de-Tous sounds good. [[Bookcrossing?]] is another thing to have a littler peak on wiki-Woodstock days I think. A collaborative real-time editor (for now MoonEdit) is the essential tool for a wiki-Woodstock. But MoonEdit is not open source, that means the programmers can’t work it into existing social software structures like wiki propperly and they also do not want to do so as it’s simply not free software. This sux atlantis and is a real problem to be solved urgently I realized. I started on en.wikipedia: collaborative real-time editor listing other collaborative editing programs. There are paralell German articles in de.wikipedia. And - surprise - there are two pretty promising projects: Gobby and chalks. Community-wiki: collaborative editor is the place I try to node the different projects on. I had to first care for that before I can go on here. Gobby works fine already I heard, but there is no easy installation yet gobby-wiki: installation guide. The chalks developer said in two month extended testing could start.

IsabelleVodjdani : Thanks Mattis for these informations. So we have to consider several solutions :

If you are able to install Gobby on this wiki (or another one which is going to take part in the WikiWoodstock) it’s OK and Le-Je-de-Tous can be an opportunity to make a double test.

If not, we can play the Je de Tous session somewhere else on MoonEdit. (Is there anybody here who can recieve the session on its own platform?)- Afterwards we can copy the result (collaborative text) and put it anywhere we want as an archive.

Otherwise we should run the session on a classic wiki page, without the possibility of simoultaneous editing. Sure! it would be much more exciting to do it quick and fast, but Le-Je-de-Tous can also make sense without a real time process. It can be running during years and years, as the old stories do in the oral tradition. The main point of this collaborative writing process is to share the same “I” (dont let it become “We”!).

MattisManzel: I got the I idea. It’s tinking the hive-mind. We surely can use MoonEdit for the I of all-session (eye, what about it. With an nice I and eye logo ;). We can make an inclusion-page on s23-wiki.

In french “Aïe!” means the same thing as “Aua!!” in German or “Outch!!” in English ;-)

Ok Mattis, I just made an edition test (with my husband) on the s23-wiki’s Moonedit. It’s really funny and I think I like it. But what do you mean by making an inclusion-page on s23-wiki? Do you mean a way to make the real time process visible for people who are not connected to the Moonedit? Something like the transcluded pages into a wiki page? Do you mean just a copy-past of the final script in a wiki-page?

I have another little problem. I noticed that it’s not possible to display French accents with Moonedit. This will create a little difficulty for French writers.

Which kind of community is going to take part to the the WikiWoodstock? I suppose it would be mostly french persons (i-e transactiv.exe’s audience: some artists or students and few other tourists). Yet my English writing is not so fluent, I’m afraid that it would be worse for other’s. Only French geeks don’t care to use English.

Thanks for the webbiennial link. Il will contact them for the “I of All”. This will maybe bring some English writers.

Well, nevermind, All I’s shall write in Frenglish and it will be a big jolly mess ;-)

SébastienSauteur: I’ve just realized that if we know very well how to carry sounds over the Internet, and pictures, and videos, thoughts and a few emotions too… we cannot transport yet, the smell of our plates, neither the taste of a good wine.. I wonder if, and how we could share those experiences here.. Food and love.. definitely close in my opinion.

Wait.. i guess i was wrong. Catering experiences seem to be possible on the Internet :beer to beer :-) I’m thinking of something else - entertainment : what of setting up a goodies-videogames multiplayer contest ? I’m thinking of those old style and light-weighted games, even -why not- a good old “pong” or those black and white car games (or sthing like apple II “stellar 7” ?). Would it be possible to have a GPL version of such games, and set up a virtual “battlefield”.. Hall of fame.. given that (someone told me that, one day) the game is the opposite of war to the Holly (poorly translated i guess : game——Holly——war) Well, i do’nt know if it’s of interest, and technically possible ? Another idea : the european treaty we’re supposed to vote next sunday, is a “world record” in both lenght and for reinventing democratic debates… Let’s do better : the wiki-Woodstock-world-constitution would need be short, clear, multi-cultural, and citizens’interests driven.

MattisManzel: Sebastien, both are good ideas. Games and constitution. What I thought about looking around on skype-fora: If we can play music together we will also be able to do karaoke together.

xtof, the idea to put the categories in the sidebar is good. You tried out putting CategoryFrench there and I see the intention. It is a different situation here than on community-wiki: multilingual experiment. There it was slowly developing multilingual work on the page-level. Here on the contrary we have fast development of an online-event and going in differeis languages on the category-level is the way to go. No doubt it will lead to confusions but the translation-team will cope with the task, I hope. It is doubtlessly the way to reach mass-participation. wiki-Woodstock wants mass-participation. I would opt for starting WikiForumFrench? and WikiForumGerman?. The working-language of this wiki is English. But we do not exclude non-English speakers.

MattisManzel: moon-edit: server s23.org, port 32123, page wiki-Woodstock is the page for a perma-ting on wiki-Woodstock ;) I also keep loged in freenode #wiki-Woodstock. Having a jabber for it would serve as well.

A little technical thing. A redirect from the logo to the homepage would be nice. Someone knows how?

ChristopheDucamp : Cannot find the good word to translate What is a wiki-Woodstock. [[Qu'est-ce_qu'un_wiki-Woodstock?]] don’t work. Please feel free to find a better human word and move CestQuoiUnWikiWoodstock wherever you want. I’m also wondering in France to invite the french folks of CopyLeft? LicenceArtLibre? to discuss how we could keep all these good future works free like the air. En français, on pourrait aussi réfléchir avec nos cousins québecois comment ne pas pelleter les nuages ;-)

MattisManzel: Emile, I haven’t looked much on our ting when making the rough frame of the wiki, just impovised. We still haven’t found out what a wiki-Woodstock is nor have we had too much time to think about what it could be. What is a wiki-Woodstock is better for working it out.

What I’m just wondering, in case it gets too big, ivolving many newbies, attracting many people, it would be a shame when the more conference part of it collapses, when the recent changes speed up and there are edit-conflicts all over. Having a scratch-wiki-Woodstock or better renaming this to meta-wiki-Woodstock and let people horse around on wiki-Woodstock? Weird? Yes. But now is the time to think about things like that, not in week any more.

MattisManzel: I started art and I realize that there is a central issue about the [[licence?]] of all the possible results of the collaborative activities - artistic, non-artistic, whatever - during a wiki-Woodstock. Could we make this as free and open as possible? How?

The point is figuring out what combinations of applications have what possibilities. We should try to make a map on that. Offering many ideas is good. It’s all just recommendations anyhow.

Exampel, moon-edit and wiki:

Imagine some five, six wiki-interested people on a moon-edit page. Imagine three such pages. On every page one person has started up a wiki short ago and would like to know. So they take the “first impression test”. Everybody takes a look at the wiki for five minutes, then there are another five minutes for commonly writing a short first impression with what to improve most urgently. And rightaway exporting all the result to the respective wiki. In an hour on all three wikis - as there is always a delay - there are precious tipps on how to improve them. 15 folks had an interesting time learning a lot how other people see a page. [[first-impression-test?]]?

Sebastien said a page like volunteer-board misses where you can list with your name as intereted to help. Stupid mistake. What’s the best name for that? volunteer-board can be renamed.