Gonna have to think on this awhile; I (think I) see where you're trying to take this, especially looking at Berg as an example, but… the thought that keeps coming to mind is "Rails without Rails", and I don't think that's fair either way

@jdickey haha…well Berg is a dry-web app, and dry-web is a dry-system-based library which allows you plugging in whatever you want, so not really a framework, and it’ll never be one. That was my main motivation behind this stuff, to have some that allows you composing an app however you like and this is not for everybody.

you could put together a full-stack framework on top of these tools, just like you could build an ORM with rom-rb pieces, same philosophy

@backus thank you!Yes, I think nil default is a sort of evil.In dry-initializer we implemented another one (when unassigned value has its own representation), but in optional we already have to deal with this "nil for not assigned value" convention.