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World of Warcraft isn't so bad when it comes down to each races' having their own startings. Sure the graphics makes you barf your lunch pizza although it is kinda fun. Questing isn't so bad for casual players to intermediate players although it leaves out feeling of much ease for hardcore players like me. Now the skills and spells. Innovative at least. Although games like AION just blows WOW away in the contest of graphics you gotta understand that WOW was the first that came out with 'Full Leveling Through Questing' motto whereas AION really is just Lineage 2 + WOW at heart. I have been a basher of WOW for years but now I think am maturing a bit more where I can appreciate mild MMORPGs... Still a hardcore MMORPG fan here... Anyways with the outdated graphics engine WOW probably had only few more years of its life and if World of Warcraft 2 was to be released with modern graphics engine and better graphics quality, you can count me in in the lines of alpha, beta, retails... So Blizzard, PLEASE, work on World of Warcraft 2~! Cheers until then, folks~!

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You could copy and paste this about a game like everquest where WoW innovated by taking a LOT of elements from that game. Not a bad thing but not worth giving it credit as if it created it all, just refined it.

Don't get me wrong, I loved World of Warcraft long ago, but I feel it gets a lot more credit then it is due for. Blizzard didn't innovate, it simply built upon what others created and made it better which isn't a bad thing. Rift is taken in quite a liking and all it does truthfully is expand upon that Everquest (WoW model if you want to give it more credit) and improved upon it. While Rift has tried to push more of its own originality in coming up with its own content though, WoW just hasn't bothered much at all as they continue to take the ideas of other games. Again, its not a bad thing but its still not really showing much in terms of them trying to make the game its own entity. Combined with poor design decisions it really alienates players, particularly the hardcore, from feeling any sense of accomplishment.

It is not that bad of a game, but at the same time it is not that good anymore. It has lost touch with what it is meant to be and its just grasping on trying to keep people involved by desperately grabbing onto elements from other games in hopes of keeping subscribers. While the newest patch at least shows some desire to try and mix it up, its just not enough to really save itself from its decline. Time can be a harsh thing on a game, and when your making poor design decisions your just going to escalate the rate of that decline. Nostoligia can only buy people back so many times and when you change it up, your losing that feeling.

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First off I want to say I thoroughly enjoyed WoW the day it came out and continued liking it (peaking on BC).

After that it became a needless boring grind and PvP was always imbalanced from patch to patch.

The ONLY thing I liked about WoW was being a rogue and infiltrating main cities. But unfortunately I gained nothing from it.

The PvP wasn't SO bad... but if you join a crap team you will lose.

Then the community started getting elitist. You would get kicked out of pug groups and had no chance to find upgrades for pve.

Almost the same with pvp, the best items were found in the arena. Unless you knew someone that could commit to practice you were boned. Unfortunately I never found such a person and again had to rely on random useless people.

The whole point is... you have to know someone, be in a guild, or have someone carry you in order to be "good".

I personally would rather be alone and rely on my own skill, but nothing that gives you rewards is implemented in this game after years and years of being in existance.

I thought about buying the 20 buck panda land expansion, but, besides the fact I didn't want to spend a monthly fee, I realized why I quit in the first place.

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Not saying it is and never said it was but after 6+ years of me playing it was time for a change. The biggest problem I have is because I was no looking for that style of MMO game play I was forced to suffer through it because no Triple A development studio woudl make nothing else, that was my biggest complaint. Well that and the dumbing down of the game, removal of any choice in talents & freedom of character build within a class. Top this off with adding things like Pokemon and other casual mainstays without even attempting more conventional mainstays like Player Housing and open world solo Dungeons.

Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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As a gamer, I can't say what other people should play. All the 'WoW hate' always seemed over the top to me and a little too focused. I've seen hideous games out there that nobody hates on like they do WoW. Games nobody plays, that are failures but you don't see campaigns that have lasted years, hating on them. So it isn't about bad games or good games. it's about popular games and in a word, Envy.

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Originally posted by free2playAs a gamer, I can't say what other people should play. All the 'WoW hate' always seemed over the top to me and a little too focused. I've seen hideous games out there that nobody hates on like they do WoW. Games nobody plays, that are failures but you don't see campaigns that have lasted years, hating on them. So it isn't about bad games or good games. it's about popular games and in a word, Envy.

That is because people do not try these games.

"I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

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I don't understand peoples issue with wow's graphics they aren't that bad, I find them much better then alot of other games ive tried like lotro and warhammer. They are way better them champions online.

I actually perfer wows stylized graphics to more realistic graphics. Plus wow plays easy and i love to quest in it. I don't care if people hate wow thats there choice.

I don't really care if wow innovated anything or not. What they did do though was perfect. The everquest style game and make it mainstream Something no other mmo has managed to do.

If u dont like themeparks fine. I don't like sandbox games. Thats just me

That said the graphics in wow aren't anywhere near as bad as people say. They just don't like the stylized graphics in general and rage on and on about that.

Also to blame wow as most wow haters do for what other devs choose to do in copying wow is stupid. As its not wows fault devs choose to try to make wow 2 and fail miserably while never inventing anything new.

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I can't say WoW is a bad game because it isn't and what Blizz have achieved with it has been ground breaking. However I dislike it greatly. Any game where you can copy and paste a macro command and with that have a rotation that can raid and pvp at top level by clicking one button is pointless to play IMO. I honestly don't know why people are drawn to it still, one of the worst communities, increasingly lazy design from BC, chase the carrot mentality, static of a world as they come and from what I read and hear these days is slowly becoming a single player game... just waiting for the announcement of 1 man raids.

Last time I logged was just after Cata to check out what the world was looking like after years away. Blizz had completely redone all of Azeroth making huge changes to the landscape and introducing flying mounts on that continent. Flying high above the newly redone SW felt like nothing had changed in 3 years, same old static place, same old wanna be gamers trolling general chat and no reason to interact with anyone for raiding or anything else with the raid finder introduced.

It's like Blizz is just gonna keep nerfing that game for the "I want my epicz nowz" COD generation until it's just the spacebar used and everyone's draped in purple.

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Originally posted by kalinis

I don't understand peoples issue with wow's graphics they aren't that bad, I find them much better then alot of other games ive tried like lotro and warhammer. They are way better them champions online.

I actually perfer wows stylized graphics to more realistic graphics. Plus wow plays easy and i love to quest in it. I don't care if people hate wow thats there choice.

I don't really care if wow innovated anything or not. What they did do though was perfect. The everquest style game and make it mainstream Something no other mmo has managed to do.

If u dont like themeparks fine. I don't like sandbox games. Thats just me

That said the graphics in wow aren't anywhere near as bad as people say. They just don't like the stylized graphics in general and rage on and on about that.

Also to blame wow as most wow haters do for what other devs choose to do in copying wow is stupid. As its not wows fault devs choose to try to make wow 2 and fail miserably while never inventing anything new.

A huge part of mmorpg's (or at least it used to be) is immersion. If you think about it from that angle you might start to understand why people have issues with WoW's cartoony graphics.

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Originally posted by DavisFlight[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Playing the game in 2004 felt very innovative when compared to the rest of the genre. The other MMO's available were basically just grinding mobs, with a bit of story that is kinda in the background for you to either delve into or not. Personally, I found it funny when games like SWTOR said they were attempting to be innovative by adding a "fourth pillar" as story. WoW is the first MMO that really tried to press the story aspect through the quest system and didn't just expect most of the story to be learned through websites and such. Whether you personally believe that WoW is innovative or not, they are pioneers of the MMO genre as it currently stands today, and whether you think that's for better or worse, that doesn't matter. It is what it is.

After 8 years and many copies, you may have skewed thoughts of innovation in terms of WoW, but if you played MMO's back before 2004, you'd realize that WoW was MUCH different compared to other games, and they completely changed many aspects of previous MMO's beforehand.

I will agree that most MMO's have racial starting areas, though, assuming the game has multiple races.

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Originally posted by Aviggin

Originally posted by DavisFlight[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Playing the game in 2004 felt very innovative when compared to the rest of the genre. The other MMO's available were basically just grinding mobs, with a bit of story that is kinda in the background for you to either delve into or not. Personally, I found it funny when games like SWTOR said they were attempting to be innovative by adding a "fourth pillar" as story. WoW is the first MMO that really tried to press the story aspect through the quest system and didn't just expect most of the story to be learned through websites and such. Whether you personally believe that WoW is innovative or not, they are pioneers of the MMO genre as it currently stands today, and whether you think that's for better or worse, that doesn't matter. It is what it is.

After 8 years and many copies, you may have skewed thoughts of innovation in terms of WoW, but if you played MMO's back before 2004, you'd realize that WoW was MUCH different compared to other games, and they completely changed many aspects of previous MMO's beforehand.

I will agree that most MMO's have racial starting areas, though, assuming the game has multiple races.

Your response to someone saying WoW isn't innovative is "Look at what it was like in 2004" is kinda agreeing with the guy you're trying to disagree with.

FTR - UO and even EQ did all of those things long before WoW, yes even the storylines.

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Originally posted by DavisFlight[mod edit]

There is in fact a lot of things. If WoW was ONLY copy/paste why any other game didn't succeed in making such large following? Mind you, marketing was not all that big for it at the launch as it is today. Please hold back from bad analogoies with pop-culture "If a lot of people listens to Britney Spears, doesn't mean it's good":

You can hate all you want, but to be honest, none of the other AAA titles didn't come even close to WoW in terms of anything. There are games that are better in some areas then WoW but in others just suck. WoW hit the middle ground and that's it.

I understand that people don't like WoW, but I will never understand the hate and just plain ignorance. I guess it's popular around here.

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I understand that people don't like WoW, but I will never understand the hate and just plain ignorance. I guess it's popular around here.

Just traditional. Remember, it started (here) even before 2004.

Most of it's just reflex at this point.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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Originally posted by Genadi

Originally posted by kalinis

I don't understand peoples issue with wow's graphics they aren't that bad, I find them much better then alot of other games ive tried like lotro and warhammer. They are way better them champions online.

I actually perfer wows stylized graphics to more realistic graphics. Plus wow plays easy and i love to quest in it. I don't care if people hate wow thats there choice.

I don't really care if wow innovated anything or not. What they did do though was perfect. The everquest style game and make it mainstream Something no other mmo has managed to do.

If u dont like themeparks fine. I don't like sandbox games. Thats just me

That said the graphics in wow aren't anywhere near as bad as people say. They just don't like the stylized graphics in general and rage on and on about that.

Also to blame wow as most wow haters do for what other devs choose to do in copying wow is stupid. As its not wows fault devs choose to try to make wow 2 and fail miserably while never inventing anything new.

A huge part of mmorpg's (or at least it used to be) is immersion. If you think about it from that angle you might start to understand why people have issues with WoW's cartoony graphics.

Eye of the beholder.

I find WoW's graphics way more immersive than those of EVE even though EVE is supposed to have 'better' graphics. The cartoony graphics are perfect for immersing me in a low fantasy setting.