I dont see a problem with his first step..and I think those 2 videos were bad examples of "bad first steps".

Im once again changing my mind on who I want them to draft based on if we're at #4. Since i doubt we can get Suh at that spot, I want Gerald McCoy. If not him, definetly Morgan.

December 2nd, 2009, 12:36 am

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3262

I haven't paid enough attention to him to make a judgement call, but i agree, those 2 video's are very poor examples of a first step. Both are outside stunts where he has to wrap around to the other side of the line before ever making a move into the backfield. Of course its going to take longer than 5 steps on that type of move. Have any of his straight rush to the passer?

Regardless of how many steps he took, he still got to the QB faster than anyone on our DL has.

Murtyle, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but if I feel it's ridiculous or completely off-base, I'm gonna call you (or anyone else) out on it. As kdsberman pointed out, those videos were bad examples, but they're also the only two available on YouTube at this time. I'm sure that will change as the draft draws closer though. In the meantime, I challenge you to find one draft website that agrees with your opinion of Derrick Morgan. There aren't very many draft profiles or scouting reports available right now, but he ones that I've found say the complete opposite. Go ahead and find one, since I'm going to posting every profile I find on Morgan in this thread and I'll even highlight in bold type the parts about his first step/burst/explosion. Here's the first few:

Walterfootball.com wrote:

Derrick Morgan Scouting Report By Matt McGuire

Strengths: Solid height and great bulk/strength Shows very nice burst off the snap; good first stepGood closing speed Great flexibility Dips and bends; runs the tight horn to QB Has improved hand use Gets good leverage Nice pass rush repertoire (spin, club, rip, etc.) Plays with consistent effort; love his motor Really sets the edge Can play left or right end Balanced end against run and pass Good range in pursuit Competitive Shown a lot of technical improvement from sophomore to junior season Great all-around skill set Very polished for his age (20) Still has some upside

Weaknesses: Very sluggish hips; can't drop into zone Not the most comfortable in space Lacks some agility Hand use could still be more consistent Needs to develop some counter moves Can't play in the 3-4 at outside linebacker Disengagement technique could improve

Summary: Derrick Morgan's stock has really risen this season and I expect him to come off the board in the top 20 picks now. There is so much value for pass rushers in the 4-3 scheme in the league since they are so hard to come by, but Morgan's well-rounded skill set and potential will make him of value to NFL teams.

NFL Fans of 3-4 teams: don't get your hopes up. Morgan really struggles when dropping into coverage. He is most comfortable with his hand in the ground. I've really liked Morgan since his Clemson game in 2009 and he has shown great consistency throughout the year producing 12.5 sacks as of Nov. 15. His production and athleticism will get noticed by NFL teams.

Player Comparison: Patrick Kerney. Kerney's motor, strength, and initial quickness has made him a successful player in the NFL. I see similar traits in Morgan.

Strengths:-Very good instincts, recognizes the plays right away-Statistically the best of a very good GT defensive line from a year ago-Has stepped up to become a leader of the Georgia Tech defense-Truly a monster at his position, great size and quickness-Has an incredible combination of speed and athletic ability-Was the #1 DE recruit coming out of high school in 2007

Weaknesses:-Needs to improve lateral quickness, is best playing at full speed-May have benefited from playing with three 2009 NFL Draft picks on the DL

11/18/09: Derrick Morgan is my top pass rusher in a weak pass rushing class. He has a great combination of size, physicality, and agility, quickness, and speed. He has a good pass rushing arsenal as well and has 12 sacks this season, improving on last year’s decent total. He gets into the backfield a lot and wreaks havoc with his combination of size and speed. He has average straight line speed, but is a crafty pass rusher and that makes up for that. He has good size against the run and isn’t blocked back easily. He has size to play on the left side and also the agility and mobility to play on the right side against left tackles. He has an excellent motor and has still a lot of upside as a 20 year old junior. He has good leverage and a good initial burst off the line which helps in both pass rushing and run blocking. He plays controlled and does not overpursue. He uses his hands well and has good extension on his arms to push off of offensive linemen to force holds or double teams. He doesn’t disengage from blocks that well and once a good, strong offensive lineman locks onto him, he doesn’t break away easily and he doesn’t have a great second burst or recovery after being knocked down. He is sluggish in coverage and doesn’t fit a 3-4 scheme as a rush linebacker for that reason and also because he is not fast enough. Rush linebackers are normally speed rushers, while Morgan is more well rounded as a pass rusher. He is as close to a first round lock as any defensive end and could be the first defensive end off the board, which may mean he’s a top ten pick when it’s all said and done because of the need for pass rushers in the NFL.

DE Derrick Morgan, Georgia TechMorgan is starting to look like a first round lock for the 2010 NFL Draft. He is very explosive and has been putting up some impressive numbers this year. This past weekend against Wake Forest Morgan had a spectacular game recording 6 tackles and 3 sacks. He is currently ranked #5 in the nation with 11.5 sacks.

So you've all seen personally 8 of his 12 sacks this year and 1 from last year (BC)... Lets account for the others... 2 came against Jacksonville St and he got 1 against Duke... I didn't see those games, nor am I going to waste my time attempting to find video's of these games that would tell us little due to their talent level...

Like I said, those are typical Morgan sacks... Effort and motor... He's great against the run and I think he'll make a good LE in the league just like Tamba Hali... I'm just not looking for that with a top 5 pick...

His numbers are high, so you're going to hear a lot of hype about him... After breaking it down, I just don't think he deserves to be in the discussion with Julian Peterson or Mario Williams...

December 2nd, 2009, 2:55 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

A sack is a sack.

December 2nd, 2009, 3:00 pm

Murtyle

Mr. Irrelevant

Joined: April 16th, 2005, 3:23 pmPosts: 941Location: Hollywood, FL

kdsberman wrote:

A sack is a sack.

I disagree...

If thats the case then a tackle is a tackle and Jordon Dizon should be a monster..

If thats the case then a TD is a TD and Tim Tebow is about to set the league on fire...

December 2nd, 2009, 11:08 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Ok...

So, who do YOU want and whats the reason????

December 2nd, 2009, 11:19 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Murtyle wrote:

kdsberman wrote:

A sack is a sack.

I disagree...

If thats the case then a tackle is a tackle and Jordon Dizon should be a monster..

If thats the case then a TD is a TD and Tim Tebow is about to set the league on fire...

Murtyle, you have good points. However, I would definitely prefer a player who possesses the work ethic and hard effort of a Morgan over the measurables and talent with lackluster effort of a Dunlap. Of course, having both would be preferred.

I understand that you say Morgan isn't worth a top five pick. I don't disagree with that. However, if the Lions are able to trade back in the 10-12 range, then Morgan should be their target. They cannot continue to live with the pass rush they have, and the other defensive ends outside of Morgan and Graham are not as good. Hardy is a walking emergency room, and his injury history cannot be discounted.

December 3rd, 2009, 11:54 am

Murtyle

Mr. Irrelevant

Joined: April 16th, 2005, 3:23 pmPosts: 941Location: Hollywood, FL

kdsberman wrote:

Ok...

So, who do YOU want and whats the reason????

I believe the talent breaks down like this:

N. Suh
G. McCoy

R. Okung
E. Berry

T. Mays
CJ. Spiller

ally the reason is that I feel like these guys are as close to can't miss prospects as there are... I feel like they are the cream of the crop so to speak... I think Suh and McCoy are in a class of their own and pretty much interchangeable... After that I group Okung and Berry together, but I put Okung ahead of Berry because of the position that he plays... Same with Spiller and Mays, but I would understand and be ok with Spiller going ahead of Mays... Everything after that I'm not as sure...

I know I'm going to hear the trenches speech, but I don't buy it... We need good players, I don't care what position they play...

December 3rd, 2009, 11:31 pm

Murtyle

Mr. Irrelevant

Joined: April 16th, 2005, 3:23 pmPosts: 941Location: Hollywood, FL

m2karateman wrote:

Murtyle, you have good points. However, I would definitely prefer a player who possesses the work ethic and hard effort of a Morgan over the measurables and talent with lackluster effort of a Dunlap. Of course, having both would be preferred.

Oh I definitely would prefer Morgan to Dunlap... I wouldn't touch Dunlap with a 2nd round pick... That guy flat out doesn't care... I don't think he makes it in the league period...

Whether I prefer someone who works hard vs someone who has raw talent is the hardest question to answer in all this and something that we as fans are at a distinct disadvantage at when it comes to scouting... There is just no way to tell whether you can motivate a player who is talented, but maybe doesn't have the passion for the game or whether he is so talented that he doesn't need it (like Shaun Rogers)... On the other hand a guy in college who racks up all kinds of sacks cause he has a motor, how do you tell if that can translate into the pros? David Pollack and Jamaal Anderson are prime examples of this... I for one was fooled by Anderson... Remember he motored his way to two sacks against Joe Thomas in their bowl game... IMO this very question is most responsible for making the draft a crap shoot...

Quote:

I understand that you say Morgan isn't worth a top five pick. I don't disagree with that. However, if the Lions are able to trade back in the 10-12 range, then Morgan should be their target. They cannot continue to live with the pass rush they have, and the other defensive ends outside of Morgan and Graham are not as good. Hardy is a walking emergency room, and his injury history cannot be discounted.

I'd probably be ok with Morgan at 10-12... I mean its early yet so all this could change... I'll will say at this point, I'd prefer Graham to Morgan...

I most definitely agree that they can't live with this pass rush and I also agree about Hardy and its really a shame, cause he takes over games when he's healthy......

Unfortunately, those YouTube videos only show sacks and not the QB pressures/hits he gets that force the QB to throw the ball away. There are dozens of times that he has blown by the OT off the snap to wreak havoc in the backfield, but those simply aren't shown in the highlights.

Regardless, the best thing about Morgan is that he isn't a one trick pony like so many other DEs are today. He doesn't just rely on his speed to get to the edge or his strength to overpower the lineman. He can do both and uses a variety of moves in the process.

I think most people respect Rick Gosselin's opinion and he just released a top ten list the other day. Here it is:

In a salary-cap world, there are three positions that NFL teams covet at the top of drafts -- quarterback, defensive line and left offensive tackle. You can find runners, receivers and linebackers throughout the draft. But the passers, pass rushers and pass protectors go fast because they generally aren't in abundance.

So when in doubt, stack the top of the draft board with those three positions. But it's still so early in the process. The NFL doesn't have the true heights, weights and speeds yet -- and won't have them until the scouting combine in late February. But here's a stab at what the NFL talent evaluators will be looking at next April. Here are the top 10 prospects for the 2010 draft:

ally the reason is that I feel like these guys are as close to can't miss prospects as there are... I feel like they are the cream of the crop so to speak... I think Suh and McCoy are in a class of their own and pretty much interchangeable... After that I group Okung and Berry together, but I put Okung ahead of Berry because of the position that he plays... Same with Spiller and Mays, but I would understand and be ok with Spiller going ahead of Mays... Everything after that I'm not as sure...

I know I'm going to hear the trenches speech, but I don't buy it... We need good players, I don't care what position they play...

Thats definetly not a bad list/order.

I wouldnt mind any of those players.

As far as the "trenches" go, im one who definetly believes games are won in it. But I wont be the one to give the speech. I also believe that the Lions should still take BPA. We need talent and playmakers..period. I just think if we stay at #4, we really have no choice but to take a lineman, most likely McCoy or Okung, since Suh probably will be gone.