You nay sayers are no fun... the PKs are constantly asking to rid the world of Tram... so it's only fair we ask to rid the world of REASONS we should HAVE to visit them... I have no problems going there to collect resources either, and I don't do Champ spawns... I just don't like PKs constantly creating new threads for the devs saying we don't like PvPing with like minded players, feed us carebears!

I have no problems going there to collect resources either, and I don't do Champ spawns... I just don't like PKs constantly creating new threads for the devs saying we don't like PvPing with like minded players,

I'm somewhat indifferent on PS. It's certainly harder to do a spawn in ilsh than it is in fel, so I don't have a problem with PS dropping in ilsh. I think ilsh champs should have some reward beyond gold, chocolate and whatever else they drop. It doesn't necessarily have to be PS.

The referendum, as far as I am concerned, is the Single Source (Felucca) for the Power Scrolls and Skill Scrolls. Is it time to change that and let both sides have the ability to acquire them equally.

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Using this logic, EVERYTHING that is available in Tram, Ilsh, Malas, and Tokuno would have to be made available on the Fel side as well.

As far as your "single source" claims, it's also the ONLY PvP reward there is. Every playstyle deserves to have rewards that are unique to each. When I can get Valorite Hammers from killing Balrons, then we can talk about removing scrolls from Fel.

As far as your "single source" claims, it's also the ONLY PvP reward there is. Every playstyle deserves to have rewards that are unique to each. When I can get Valorite Hammers from killing Balrons, then we can talk about removing scrolls from Fel.

Until then, deal with it.

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I don't mean to be argumentitive but I don't understand the connection. Reds and Blues in Tram and Fel can both do all the BoDs the want for Smiths in their own towns... there's no advantage to either one so both can get Val hammers with equal chances. No? If the timer for getting BoDs was 6 hours in Tram (which it is I believe) and 3 in Fel or 12 in Fel there would be an unfair advantage to one side over the other, similar to the resource collection advantage.

As far as the Power Scroll collecting, I think you simply can't get them in Tram save for buying them from other players who earned them in Fel... so there's a distinct advantage.

Stratics VeteranAlumni

Given the clear Minority of the Feluccan's, is it time to let the Trammelians have access to these two "Perks" the Feluccan's ... have had.

Thus enabling access to the Power Scrolls etc to the Trammelians, enabling better resource gathering to the Trammelians.

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If Fel is so empty, Trammelians can simply walk in and take said resources and powerscrolls unchallenged. You don't need your own supply if the basis of your argument is sound. Big if..

However, if that isn't the case then surely we can't be that much of a minority. Because if we were, it would be much harder to rally up defenders for a champ spawn or find the odd innocent miner by the mountains. You'd feel immune to attack if we didn't play in Fel - wouldn't you? But obviously, your argument rests on the "fact" that Tram has more players.

If Tram players were such a huge majority, why not rally them up and gank the snot out of the Fel PvPers? If said items were so important to the Tram player base, surely you wouldn't have trouble putting together a champ guild or resource collecting squad. Others have done the same then become skilled PvPers - what's stopping you?

Maybe I need to post up screenshots of some harrowers we've held on my shard to show how "deserted" it is? Or I can stealth around champs tonight and see who's about. Just because YOU don't like Fel and don't want to fight to get those resources and scrolls, doesn't make Fel's population less deserving of content. You might want to deny that people play Fel, but that doesn't mean you're correct.

Fel players help pay for all your pretty items which only spawn on your facets, but instead of respecting your fellow player and having the decency to support Fel folks, you want to get rid of us and turn UO over to your choice of ruleset. Are you taking up a marketing role at EA to try recruiting new players, because if the player base goes down too far, who knows how long UO will last.

Instead, why not try and live with your fellow UO players and get off your backside and hunt in Fel for a change. I suck at PvP yet manage to get everything I want just fine. The only thing stopping you from doing the same is yourself.

Stratics Veteran

There has to be something to get people to go to Fel and these are its benefits besides PvP. Same reason that Paragons are only in Ish.

The 2x resources should stay only to Fel, would agree to champ spawns going to Tram only on the condition that they dont give PS let the Tram champs give out Alacrity scrolls instead and I would be for it

Not even because they don't agree with you, but because they think it Sounds like the right thing to do.

We see threads by one angry Feluccan or another every couple of weeks complaining that the Fel ruleset needs more lands.
They even have EA/M convinced to do exactly that with part of SA.

Meanwhile the Existing Fel rules lands are So Empty and So Unused they have to try to bribe people to go there at all with the PSs and double resources.

Someone at EA/M failed a few business courses in college methinks. You don't continue to invest resources in failed ventures. You apply them to the successful ones, or find new ones.

Imagine for a moment, what would happen if they DID put PScrolls on Ilsh/toku champs and doubled resources everywhere else like they are in Felucca.

Spawner guilds would be dead in a day.
Nearly every player with a red character would be screaming for reprieves.
You would see threads begging to allow grandfathered houses to be re-placed in Trammel.
And you would see 5000 posts saying "I Quit" and 32 accounts would actually be canceled.

Powerscrolls would fall in price to where anyone could afford them (rather like most artifacts have). And over time, Fel would become so empty that they could eventually cut 20% of the hardware costs of running each blue shard by removing Felucca from them completely.
(and another 5000 posts saying "I Quit" and 32 more accounts closed)

You might want to deny that people play Fel, but that doesn't mean you're correct.

Wenchy

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No one here is suggesting that people don't play Fel, or that they shouldn't... we aren't suggesting any changes to Fel ruleset at all, since we don't play there. You have double resources and God bless, you have Champ spawns and power to you... Play Fel all day long and twice on Sundays.

We are Trammies and don't want to play Fel. We could also have Double resources and Champ spawns without taking them away from you. The only thing that would take away from you would be US, potential VICTIMS and we don't want to be your victims anyway, thank you very much.

There has to be something to get people to go to Fel and these are its benefits besides PvP. Same reason that Paragons are only in Ish.

The 2x resources should stay only to Fel, would agree to champ spawns going to Tram only on the condition that they dont give PS let the Tram champs give out Alacrity scrolls instead and I would be for it

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These draws aren't really working though, Most though not all of the people I see gathering resources in Fel are scripting, death for them means little as they have time in their favor. I associate with some of the larger guilds in UO, they talk about doing Fel spawns for the PS but the sentiment is always the same, they'd like to do it but they just can't compete with the rampant cheats many of the Raid guilds use, speeding, heal scripts ect. I say it's rampant because those same guild have members that also participate in Raids with other guilds on other characters, and I've heard them talk about the programs they use.

Until Cheating is resolved in all it's aspects in UO which doubtfully will ever happen there's no real point to restricting anything to Fel as it's power of as a lure will soon wear off simply because the PvP community in general has no qualms about taking every advantage illegal or not to humiliate, belittle and discourage players from setting foot in Fel.

Cheating knows no facet, no color, no playstyle. Where there is a way to cheat, there is a cheater.

My point is there's plenty of PvP'ers and Feluccans who do not cheat, who detest it, who play by the rules and there's plenty of Trammelites who see PvP for what it is, the end game of UO.

It's just a game, a red character is not really a bad person or a murderer IRL. Not every PvP'er cheats. Some guilds don't allow it and will kick you. Once people understand that they will come to realize PvP is the funnest part of UO.

I don't mean to be argumentitive but I don't understand the connection. Reds and Blues in Tram and Fel can both do all the BoDs the want for Smiths in their own towns... there's no advantage to either one so both can get Val hammers with equal chances

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It's about the rewards for particular playstyles. Scrolls are the ONLY reward for PvP, while PvM and Crafting have a slew of rewards available to them.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

OK - Let reds come to Tram and then you have a deal. Otherwise, stop whinning.

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You can come to Trammel any time you want, buy anything you want and leave.

All you need to do is dedicate a single character to that function.

The only whining going on is from the Feluccans.

This is a poll were Trammel Players can express their desire or lack there of to have these Resources made available to them on their terms.

Power Scrolls Skill Scrolls etc as well as less time resource grinding.

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Ohhhh, this is a Trammie only poll?

Then why are you posting it on this board son? Are you lost?

Last time I checked this board was for all of Uo's players no?

*and btw, your entire OP is one gigantic whine for something that Trammies are too scared to go get for themselves in Fel. But keep begging the Devs to make up for a total lack of guts. I am sure they get just as amused as the rest of us everytime they hear it*

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Given the clear Minority of the Feluccan's, is it time to let the Trammelians have access to these two "Perks" the Feluccan's ... have had.

Thus enabling access to the Power Scrolls etc to the Trammelians, enabling better resource gathering to the Trammelians.

Is it time to give both sides equal access to these "Perks" / Resources (Power Scrolls, Skill Scrolls etc).

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No. There is a reason for the double resources. Risk V Reward. If you want a reward at trammel champ spawns might I suggest alacrity scrolls??? Those would be good. Some would be worth more than others and could even make em have different levels. Say 15, 30, 45, and 60 minute scrolls. The higher the time the more rare. Leave the felluca champ spawns alone.

I'm also a split vote guy, resources should remain as they are, an incentive to play in Fel. PSs are an entirely different story. Yes, they should be available within the Tram ruleset, at a lower drop rate. As is, a handfull of players have been allowed to completely control a vital aspect of the game, and it's gone on for many years beyond what should have occurred.

Stratics VeteranAlumni

You might want to deny that people play Fel, but that doesn't mean you're correct.

Wenchy

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No one here is suggesting that people don't play Fel, or that they shouldn't... we aren't suggesting any changes to Fel ruleset at all, since we don't play there. You have double resources and God bless, you have Champ spawns and power to you... Play Fel all day long and twice on Sundays.

We are Trammies and don't want to play Fel. We could also have Double resources and Champ spawns without taking them away from you. The only thing that would take away from you would be US, potential VICTIMS and we don't want to be your victims anyway, thank you very much.

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I'm a Fellie, and if I can be forced into visiting Tram for things, I don't see how it's so unfair that powerscrolls can only spawn in Fel. Do I need to list the things which are exclusive to Tram rulesets? It's a much bigger list, and given that I REALLY don't like Tram, you can rest assured that I don't enjoy my visits, any more than you enjoy Fel. As for the resources, that's just a matter of time. You can still get the resources, but if you haven't taken additional risk, why should you get the same resources as someone who did? Cattle aren't THAT hard to kill are they? Most resources can be collected within the town guards too, thanks to random resources - so it's optional whether you incur risk in Fel anyway.

In Fel, we need more content, not less. Duplicating it in Tram may not remove it directly, but it'll certainly lure away yet more Fel players to the safer lands to do those things. And why does Tram need more players? If Fel players are going to be screwed over for the forseeable future, I want a subscription discount for staying in Fel lol.

They already said they are moving champion spawns to SA when it is released. However, that will probably be the part of SA that the reds are allowed in. Ideally, I would like to see it work how peerless work now, and you would be able to do the champion in a private area then have to make it out with the scrolls.

They already said they are moving champion spawns to SA when it is released. However, that will probably be the part of SA that the reds are allowed in. Ideally, I would like to see it work how peerless work now, and you would be able to do the champion in a private area then have to make it out with the scrolls.

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That would not be ideal. That is a Trammel ideal. You seem to think that is some sort of compromise, well it is not.

The few peerless bosses in Felucca should not work the same as the ones in Trammel, they should be FFA once someone puts in the ingredients or whatever. I don't think Fel and Tram should have any new content that is a copy. For example in ML there is a Fel and Tram version of some of the peerless bosses. That was the wrong decision.

Furthermore there should be no loot restrictions in Felucca and the beneficial acts bug needs to be fixed.

Basically the Trammelization of Felucca needs to be stopped.

There should be separate and unique Tram and Fel sides to the Stygian Abyss dungeon with different rewards. The Fel side should be 100% PvP based. No safe areas, no guard zones, no funny compromises. In addition to the new high level monsters, the Tram side should focus on crafting and have an easy area for noobs. They should make a 'good' spawn on the Fel side that is attacking Fel and an 'evil' spawn on the Tram side that is attacking Tram. Totally different dungeon map, rules and rewards for each side.

If they screw it up the Fel side will be empty and they will lose subs just like what happened with ML. If they succeed they will probably retain everyone and maybe even snatch up a few returning players.

Stratics Veteran

Wenchy it is good to see you involved again, you have been missed If anyone has ever missed this, then I will say this again. Wenchy and others like her are what the Original UO / Felucca was meant to be. I would preserve Felucca for them.

Wenchy,

How do you live with a group that advocates your destruction?

How do you communicate with a group that insist your incompetent to understand your own self. Meaning the drop dead insistence that Trammel people are NOT happy unless they are being Ganked by them.

Given this group is a very very very small group, a subset of the Feluccans, were is the voice from the Feluccans denouncing them?

Not really, we both know that Being two playing the game on both sides of this very emotional "issue," let's review what occurs in the current PS process. First, there is shard variance for sure - let's get that out of the way up front. On populated shards, you either have to be a satisfied "raider" or a frustrated victim, the two never seem mutually available as an outcome. Let's review the latter first. The group of victims begin working a spawn, with characters tailored specifically to the PvM challenge. They become heavily engaged with the spawn, and work the levels upward. Only the largest guilds can afford to have added players set aside as "guards," and even in this case guarding forces are quite dispersed. The "raiding" party performs reconnaissance, and monitors. At the pinnacle of the spawn, the assaut begins. The raiding characters are also tailored to task, so the ensuing fight pits PvP oriented characters against PvM oriented characters. The latter are engaged by both spawn, better suited characters, and are dispersed accross the spawn zone. The outcome is predetermined.

As for a Tram PS drop, I'm not against it at all, though I do think the rate of drop should never exceed 50%, and possibly be as low as 25% of Fel drop rates. For about the first year following p16, it may have been worth testing the waters to see what outcome might ensue. Paragons in Ilsh kind of sealed the deal for me, this one is way overdue a modification.

This is like saying Felucca players should have access to Doom artifacts.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

definitely keep it as they are, u should know how to pvp and defend yourself from being raided by players to deserve power scrolls, otherwise u can do spawns in ilsh for gold, as for resources the reason it is 2x is because of the risk of getting killed by people which is a fair tradeoff, theres never a risk with anything in tram

I voted no. It's not a big deal to gather resources in Fel and it's not as if they are different than Tram, just the amount. I've gathered hides and wool in Fel several times and never been attacked. Leave the champ spawns in Fel as they are and boost Tram. Add new powerscrolls should they come along or something else to the spawns in Ilsh. Put the original Tokuno dyes and some new items on the Tokuno spawn.

I just think Fel should be left as it is. I'd rather see the ML ingredient drops changed than Fel activities.

Given the clear Minority of the Feluccan's, is it time to let the Trammelians have access to these two "Perks" the Feluccan's ... have had.

Thus enabling access to the Power Scrolls etc to the Trammelians, enabling better resource gathering to the Trammelians.

Is it time to give both sides equal access to these "Perks" / Resources (Power Scrolls, Skill Scrolls etc).

Click to expand...

i have a simple solution to all the trammies wanting powerscrolls and double resources, then we wont have them whining everyday.......get rid of tram ruleset! then they can have all the double resources they want and can try for scrolls anytime they want!

What risk? Insurance removed all Risk for Fel, if you mean the handful of resources one might gather then that's no big thing either I can farm resources in Fel all day with 0 Risk from PK's because the areas are in guards zone...Spouting out Risk vs Reward is pointless.

What risk? Insurance removed all Risk for Fel, if you mean the handful of resources one might gather then that's no big thing either I can farm resources in Fel all day with 0 Risk from PK's because the areas are in guards zone...Spouting out Risk vs Reward is pointless.

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Dying can be a huge risk to house pets. Soemone might get mad and throw their wireless mouse at their cat.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

What risk? Insurance removed all Risk for Fel, if you mean the handful of resources one might gather then that's no big thing either I can farm resources in Fel all day with 0 Risk from PK's because the areas are in guards zone...Spouting out Risk vs Reward is pointless.

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If there is no risk then there is no issue.

Absolutely no reason to open up Powerscrolls and/or double resources to any other facet.
Everyone can just come to empty Felucca risk free to farm resources & obtain scrolls.

End of story.

A) Felucca is not empty so therefore deserving of all the support accorded any facet. Because if it was empty nobody from Trammel would have any problem whatsoever coming to Felucca and getting their hearts desire.

B) Anybody that wants items just given to them with 0 challenge(and lets face it folks, there is 0 challenge anywhere other then Felucca. If you dont understand this I truly feel sorry for you as far as your gaming life is concerned)is just plain sad and IMO no factor when it comes to Uo.
It currently seems that the biggest challenge a Trammelite wants to face is how long he/she has to wait in line to farm Peerless

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