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Editorial: The Current State Of The RPG

What is the current state of the role-playing game in our industry? Well, it's complicated.

Turn-based, real-time, hybrids; it all comes together in one big jumble, and while hardcore fans of any given style will defend it to the death, all the while likely casting multiple aspersions on the other side, all forms have their merits. Having played a good 50 or 60 RPGs in my time (I've honestly lost count), ranging from the purest form of old-school turn-based to FPS/RPG hybrids like Deus Ex, I do believe I have the requisite information to perform an accurate compare and contrast concerning the state of the RPG. So many things have changed...

There's what's known as "pure turn-based," which is usually only found in strategy/RPGs like Disgaea or full-on strategy titles; this is when speed is not a concern. The player places and moves all his units and then the computer does the same. Simple. It's just very rare; even games like Final Fantasy Tactics may appear to be "purely turn-based," but in fact, because speed is a factor, they really aren't. Furthermore, unless you put Final Fantasy VII on "Wait," the enemies will still move whenever they get their turn; you can't have an infinite amount of time to decide on your decision. But while we're on the subject of speed, what exactly is "turn-based?" Remember, even in the games that appear to be entirely real-time may have time bars operating in the background, which essentially designates "turns."

In my eyes, any hacking and slashing makes an RPG real-time, which is why Nier is certainly real-time but Dragon Age: Origins - as you can always pause, issue orders, change things up, etc. - is "turn-based" even if there are no "turns," per se... But you see what's happening here. What even separates an RPG from the rest of the genres, many of which sport obvious role-playing elements in this generation? Is it only decision-making and player freedom that can be considered the defining attribute? Some always said if there were levels and experience, it'd be an RPG, but that'd be downright ridiculous to say now, right? But what about all the fresh stuff? Last year's Demon's Souls was unquestionably an RPG but really...what the hell was it?

My favorite game series of all time is Final Fantasy and that's because I always loved that particular turn-based style. Yes, I understand Baldurs Gate was also technically "turn-based," but we all know the inherent differences in how the two games are played is very clear. I've always been partial to that JRPG style and I will always claim it's one of the best ways to play a game. But they're all gone now (although I know they still exist on handhelds) and anything new won't be played like the early FFs or Suikodens or Wild ARMs or whatever. I accept that. But I can't even put my finger on what an RPG is right now; there's Fallout 3 and there's Eternal Sonata and there's White Knight Chronicles and there's Dragon Age...they're all blending together and yet...they're all very different.

So in the end, I answer the question at the start of this article, "what is the current state of the RPG?" with the following answer: I have no goddamn idea.. Sorry I couldn't clear that up for you. I just know that defining "role-playing" today is a tedious and potentially combustible trial.

P.S. The reason I used a FFVIII pic is because we post FFVII pics enough and quite honestly, VIII needs some lovin'.

I agree that they are good but still most of the time you would spend pressing the same button, but the Legend Of The Dragoons(Ps1) jumped to the top of my list with their additions.It took timing little skill and good memory to make battles go through smoothly.Last edited by neighber on 7/9/2010 11:44:51 PM

I did...sort of. 100+ hours to turn my characters into Gods as I always do, but when I realized they weren't really "Gods" even with stats of 3500 and 3000 for Strength and Magic for my characters...I lost interest.

Stating it like that got me wondering as well, seeing as I had the same argument with one of my xbots who was saying halo(or gears of war, can't remember exactly which one) was sort of an rpg, because you could level up certain weapons and whatnot, so of course I went like, hell no, halo isn't an rpg, that obviously an fps. "But then are those leveling up parts rpg elements" asked the clever xbot. And you know, I can't tell you, you do get xp and use that to level up your character's attributes, but does this make it an rpg?
I don't know. To me an rpg still holds that image of a Japanese game like Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts, always relying on awesome stories and great gameplay.

Also, shoutout to Karosso for helping me fix my pc, since most of my internet related things didn't work and the whole thing was overrun by viruses, now it's as good as back to normal again.

Was glad it worked, some of this virus can ruin your Windows Operating System and nothing short of a clean install can fix it.I feel the same way about this so called Third Person RPGs, it just feels wrong to call them RPGs even thou I loved Oblivion... Hope I'm not turning into a Roger Ebert LOL

I think we're back to that old discussion about RPGs. Is it sufficient to call a game an RPG, or does there need to be a sub-genre classification?

For example, JRPGs, SRPGs, RTRPGs, and so on.

Perhaps the trick here is to accept the wider definition of RPG and instead to look at the genre within the overall RPG classification. I've aregued long and hard that SE is making a mistake by lumping all gamers together and trying to serve them as one market. We gamers are obviously not a single group. So why do we talk of RPG games in that way? Should we not also recognize that there are different genre of RPG within the overall RPG classification?

Let's take turn based JRPG games for example. The traditional turn based JRPG is alive and well, in Japan on the hand held consoles. the fact that it's not made much of an appearance on the home consoles yet is a pity, but the genre isn't dead. If we talk of RPGs as if all are now real time and turn based is no more, we ignore so many games, even games on the PS3 and 360. So I don't think we can do that. But I do think we can define those sub-genre better.

I loved Dragons Age Origins. It was the first RPG I played that I really enjoyed. Everything from building my charactor and allocating stats to them, very cool. But I never expected it to open up my world to games like Nier, Resonance of Fate or to go back to the store and pick up Fallout 3 after returning it prior to having DA:O. Glad I did re-purchase that game.Nothing ever braced me for Demon's Souls though. It's ruined me that game. I can't play other games for very long now without feeling the urge to farm up some souls and grind myself through Boletaria. I would of said DA:O was my favourite RPG after clearing it, but I have to say Demon's Souls is my favourite game of any genre.

My favorite so far is Dragon Age Origins, altough I love White Knight Chronicles, and Demon's Souks, and like FFXIII and the series. I for one am psyched about Dragon Age 2, I'm definitely picking it the day it comes out, long live Dragon Age Origins :D

there is literally still no "CLASSIC" textbook sample of JRPGs this gen on PS3, the only one that is close to that "CLASSIC" feeling is Lost Odyssey, but unfortunately only on xbox360.

many times, I am just wondering why cant they just inherit all what is great in the PS2 area for JRPGs? -- deep music, big world map, turn based magic and battle system and customization, mini games .... you know, the only change needed from the PS2 JRPG from this gen JRPG is the HD graphics --- so I just wonder why cant they just do that.

Sadly enough, there is even not one single developer willing to do that or thought about that simple method; instead, everybody is talking about revolution, revolution of what??? revolution to go backwards, revolution to lose the great recipe. that's all I have seen this gen so far -- they have gone too far, so far that you don't even know what great things they have lost.

nothing more to sayLast edited by BigBoss4ever on 7/9/2010 10:19:39 PM

One of the funniest moments I've experienced in gaming happened with FFVIII. It was hilarious when Squall asked the students in their cafeteria to hide all the hot dogs from the invaders. "Don't let them get any of 'em!"

I loved final fantasy 8 more so then 7. I miss the classic jrpgs. To me an rpg is amazing character interactions with tons of character growth and development. A story that is deep and emotional that ties into the characters. This allows time for you to grow and love the characters in that rpg. You really only get that in jrpgs, but it seems japan is loosing its faith in what made jrpgs what they are!:(

I'm so passionate about jrpgs that I have to say something else. I grew up only playing jrpgs besides mario and what not and this still hasn't changed to this day. I get frantic with each jrpg that comes out only to get disappointed (not always). I know a lot of you grew up playing those wonderful rpgs and now it feels like we are forgotten, dismissed. This is really out there but I'm blaming microsoft and that damn 360. With the release of the 360 brought the release of twitch games. And oh boy they sold! With developers mind set in those are the only games they sell we see less of the type of games we grew up on! Less platform, rpg and what not. This also ties into japanese games as well! They thinl all north america wants are fps or games where you don't even get enough time to get invested into the emotions of other characters! Ahh ima stop sorry lol

You might not be too far off the mark insofar as the 360 release seems to have coincided with Japanese developers completely flushing their old formulas down the toilet in order to cater to that market, no matter that the thing won't sell in Japan. They liked the kickbacks.

Because of this there isn't even an attempt to cater to fans of PS1 and PS2 era JRPGs because they all assume that we have become twitchers due to the fact the the 360 sold so well in America.

Aren't americans to blame as well? I have nothing against america, I am canadian with tons of family all over the states. I love it there and most of the time the people are awesome. But its nostly their fault for supporting the 360 like it was their lord and savior. Same goes with all the fps out there. I'm heavy into modnation racers and I love anime, so 37 of my published mods are all anime or jrpg game characters. You know what? They get downvoted the second I publish them! I spend hours naking these things for people to appreciate (lol they are actually really good mods) and it just shows the ignorance of people toward japanese games and culture:(

He's right though. I agree with him 100%. Gone are the days of Final Fantasy greatness all because of the 360 and it's twitch gaming nonsense.

Sayword, I wouldn't blame anyone but the devs. They didn't have to jump on the twitch band wagon. Look at kojima. He stayed true and it payed off. Peace Walker and MGS4 are two of the best games this gen.

When I read "I have no goddamn idea" I laughed. So rare for Ben to be out of ideas.

For me, an RPG is an RPG, but what can be called an RPG? Valkyria Chronicles, yes. Oblivion, Fallout 3, yes. I haven't played enough of Demon's Souls or FFXIII yet to form an opinion. Some say Bioshock has RPG themes, but no. GOW, no, even with the weapon levelling. GTA: San Andreas, yes and no.

I'm not sure. For me, RPGs represent the freedom. They have a relatively deep levelling system, an open world is preferable, but not necessary, a focus on the story with levels, each of which has a definite focus, not unlike chapters of a book, a goal. That last one is, I think, what marks an RPG. But that would make Uncharted an RPG... damn. I mean, Fallout and Oblivion each has the story divided into different missions that require a certain outcome, VC has the chapters of the book, so in my mind, that combined with a levelling system is one decrees RPG.

And you can say that most games are divided into chapters, but are they really? Most games splits still focus on getting you to the final goal, while RPGs do not. They focus on completion of a set goal, then set you up for what comes next, never really looking towards the ultimate goal until it is just beyond reach.

But then, my RPG experience consists of five games, so that automatically discludes me from being right in my assumptions.
Peace all.

Lol at your assessment of the current state of RPG's. I may have had a similar answer if posed the question, but I doubt my answer would have been as professional. I'm being light-hearted and not a smart *ss.

FF is my all time favorite turn based RPG because the style is unique ( or used to be ) to that particular franchise. Although I really like White Knight Chronicles, it doesn't compare to FF's of old.

I was so looking forward to SE blowing me away with the ps3, but it looks like that'll never happen.

RPGs aren't just about stats and leveling up. RPGs give players a world to live in. People to talk to. Vast choices of weapons and equipment. They make a player grind out battles to raise their level so they can take on more advanced side quests and so forth.

Having a shooter with RPG elements certainly doesn't make it an RPG. What it's doing is adding a single RPG feature in order to make the gameplay more addictive.

Of course you're going to get the occasional hybrid game that "feels" like an RPG, but that's just because devs want to be innovative. Sometimes those innovations even work out.

ah, yea well I was rating the story of the three. and with VIII and X being close to #1 I put my reason for choosing VIII over X. You are correct, though.Last edited by CHAOS THEORY X on 7/10/2010 12:26:31 AM

dragon lord armor for dragonquest 8! i kicked that dragon challenge's ass. i forgot my monster team though. i didnt even think about buying dragonquest 8. all i wanted was the ff12 demo. glad i played it though i found it pretty funny that if you put the right clothes combination on the girl she changes outfit. she was a bunny girl for most of the game, hahaha.Last edited by johnld on 7/10/2010 1:39:26 AM

Just because a game has an element of rpg, doesn't mean that's what it is. When watching movies, if a drama makes you laugh once that doesn't make it a comedy.

Personally ff7 is my fav of all time, materia over magic draw any day. The gunblade aspect was also a little to arcade-like for me during battles. Other than that, they both have an amazing story, but ff7 is the only game that ever made me cry.

Currently playing ff9 for the first time and loving it so far, definitely not been disappointed.

I know a lot of ppl love ff 10, but the one thing about 10 that drove me nuts was Tidus. Had to be the most brain dead character ever. I won't give anything away for those who haven't played it, but the fact that he didn't get what was going on until they explained it to him, man I just wanted to knock him upside the head the entire game and be like "Wake up ya moron!" Other than that it was great.

I love a variety of rpgs, I really enjoy games with a lot of options, free roaming, leveling, equipment choices. Any game with a great story, exploration, customization, leveling, and great characters, those are my rpgs, regardless of what anyone else thinks of them.

Not sure who thumbed you down for saying what you like and don't like AND explaining it, BUUUT in the way of defending Tidus it was clear to me that they were trying to take the main character's person in a way different direction. Cloud was deluded but tough, Squall was top of his class, Zidane was your typical rascal, but Tidus was the first time they used a Jock. Jocks... well, they aren't historically intelligent and are largely emotionally disrupted by their fathers. And even though he wasn't a fighter at first, his competitive will made him one.

just kinda ended? to each his own but to me it had the best closure out of ps1 FF games and it was pretty moving. Much better than 7's ending, now thats an ending that just kinda ends, i expected more from the ending but then it just cuts off and flashes forward some years and we see RedXIII. If it wasn't Advent Children that ending would still feel pretty damn emptyLast edited by aaronisbla on 7/10/2010 3:07:29 AM

True Tidus was a jock, I never got along with jocks, never liked them, thought most of them were pre-pubescent brained morons. Kinda how I felt about Tidus. LOL

Haven't finished 9, so please no spoilers for it, but I can already tell that it's not going to be my favorite. I simply love everything they did with 7, 9 is great so far, but the learning abilities and magic through clothing isn't really my favorite. I do however like Zidane and his 2-handed weapons. Thats pretty awesome.

Honestly 10 was a little too linear for me, not being able to do a majority of the side missions until you're at the end of the game is kinda a bummer for me, they're side missions not end missions. Also I've only played it once and didn't realize that everyone could share the same abilities, it doesn't explain it very well, so oops. Also if you used Yuna the game was super easy, just summon and you win, even boss's were easy. Just my thoughts on the game any way. I'll definitely play it again tho. I enjoyed it, just not my fav of the series.

FINAL FANTASY 7 ***SPOILER ALERT****

***********************************

I really loved the end of 7, it appeared as tho they had succeeded in saving the planet which is what they were trying to do. Life goes on, that's true and I happened to love it. *************************************

Not sure how to word this so i'll just say it. Real gamers who play rpgs know one when they play one. Its not something you can easily describe to an outsider looking in but we know it in our gut when its an rpg

I would like to say something (as if I haven't spammed this thread enough) WHY oh WHY is that banner Ad constantly up in my grill? Why can't it stay on the bottom where it belongs? Can't somebody please do something about this obscene error in my line of typing and reading!?

i dont really get why square thought that releasing their rpgs exclusively on the 360. i mean, all the 360 fans, even the original xbox fans, are mostly if not all shooter fans. they seem surprised that their rpgs are tanking here in the west. Most 360 users have short attention spans that if the game wasnt a shooter or instant gratification, it will be ignored. Although not an rpg, alan wake had a good concept but it required players to think, which just scares away 360 users. the square enix....scratch that, squaresoft fans are on the playstation brand. Cater to your loyal fans damn it. and if the quality of the game is really amazing, those 360 users will buy a ps3 system to buy it. the same way some ps2 users bought an xbox or and xbox 360 to play halo. That may be a bad game comparison quality wise because final fantasy games are way up there while halo is mediocre at best.

its not how it use to be, which is disappointing but there are some fun interesting RPG styles that replace the old.ive kissed RPGs of old goodbye, i really cant see many new games of the old style releasing it seems that developers are not interested in them anymore no matter what their fans want.

though RPGs like borderlands, fallout, mass effect and alpha protocol are decent substitutes.elder scrolls is the closest thing we have to the older styled RPGs, close but not quite there yet.shame, id love to see a new digemon game.its funny, i hated the pokemon games but loved digemon even though it was almost the same game.

Yo. Where does Metal Gear Acid fit in? You had a turn, then the enemies did, you moved about with cards, additionally more could be acquired in certain stages to strengthen your deck of 30 to your liking.

I just purchased final fantasy 13, and started playing it last night. I still don't know what to think, it feels weird. I'm refusing to use AutoBattle, let's see how long that lasts. Allot of genres are blending and as mentioned, it's getting harder to classify games. Which i don't really like, somehow ff13 made me feel like I was playing Bayonetta or something. I'm glad however that i can still enjoy it.

They're games like Fallout and Fable, the main character is completely customisable, from appearance to personality. while it is god and fun to play still the problem with hacving the character you control so customisable is that they always have no personailty, i think back to Fallout there arent really any memorable characters unlike Final Fantasy or Star Ocean.

It is also due to the structure of the story, Fallout an Fables story is more based on what you do, while in Final Fantasy you have a set out story which you play through, FF's way is just structured beteer for more character development. we see the lead characters from a 3rd person view rather than 1st.

ive always thought that games like fallout or even borderlands that call themselves RPGs are inaccurate labels. so the character isnt a stagnant element that never changes. that doesnt make it an rpg.

RPGs had this thing going for them back in the day, that the more you played the more powerful you became. duh, right? nobody else did it. well, almost nobody else did it. zelda kinda did it. point being, just because the RPG was the first genre to incorporate character development does not mean its an RPG trait.

(therefore we can conclude that everyone else is simply playing catchup by incorporating so-called RPG elements into their shooters or football games =D)

RPGs were all about a story sucking you in and making you feel like you were in it, like a good book. you played the role of a person (or group of people) in a story that the game told. all these western RPGs are misnamed, theyre no more an RPG than a "pick your own adventure" book is a fantastic story like The Hobbit.

(thats not to say they arent phenomenal games in their own right)

so, i feel the current state of the rpg is that since people dont have the attention span for classic rpgs anymore, the things that they had going for them are being incorporated into the different genres. i have a feeling it will be hibernating here for maybe 2 years before it surges back in popularity.

If you want a true JRPG for the PS3, get the new Trinity Universe. I'm loving it!!! However, it's got "Japan" written all over it. You have to be able to enjoy a lot of cut scenes, humor, Turn Based, Creation, and a lot more. It's Fantastic!!! Great Anime, Good English Translation, and a whole lot of play time!!!
Also, my personal all time favorite SRPG is Vandal Hearts for the Playstation. The First One. Fantastic Story, Great Control, Hidden Objects, and much more. Try playing without losing any characters - a Real Challenge, but doable!!!Last edited by GamerO1 on 7/10/2010 11:23:37 AM

I should hope that sooner or later some developer has to put together the effort and bang out a AAA title "old school" RPG. The ones that Ben mentioned.

We may be a small group in comparison to the twitch gamer crowd. But a strong group never the less. I mean come on in our current state of RPGs I'm sure the hard core old school gamers would pull through and make such a game profitable.

I'm looking for the kind of RPG that has absolutely no consideration for the FPS fan. One that would give the twitch gamer the middle finger if he tried to comprehend such a story driven and strategy demanding game.

I never really like FFVIII because at the last boss battle all I did was keep on using aura on everyone to use there limit breaks and there was no point of summoning monsters no more. So far I like FFIX because its makes using everything I have fun.

really, i did not find that with IX, I never felt the need to use Freya or Quina because of there rubbish abilities, and arnet replaced Eiko as the healer. In FF8 you could pretty much change to a character of your preference.

Quina was a complete waste of a character. At first i thought maybe Quina would go totally underrated and then boom, beast of a character. Sucks he was just a space filler

I thought he'd be like Peco From Breath of Fire 3. Peco sucked ass at first glance until people started realizing if leveled up in the right path with the right master, he was the strongest character on the game bar none. In fact, BoF3 players often refer to using a beefed up Peco as Easy Mode lol.

Wait wait wait... Quina and Freya, rubbish? Quina was the ONLY character that had Wind and Earth magic, heat, freeze, vanish, MIGHTY GUARD, and a superb MP destroying move, Magic Hammer. Not to mention his unique support abilities like Millionaire. Freya is the only character with the 'Initiative' and 'Dragon Killer' support abilities, which came in pretty handy, and had a mass Regen ability. Plus, Jump rocks.Last edited by WolfCrimson on 7/11/2010 3:33:34 AM

All of those skills and they decide to give it to Quina, horrible choice of character design on Squares part. He had damn near no story worth mentioning. At least Cait Sith from FF7 actually played somewhat of a significant role

Jump is awesome till you realize that its not offering as much of a significant boost ( till you learn high jump ability ) and Zidane, Steiner and Amarant can do just as much damage if not more without the wait. The only dragon skill worth using besides the Reis Wind is Dragon Crest, but its dependent on how many dragons you've killed with her in the party

The only times i actually have to use Quina and Freya is during the battle with Ozma, it kinda makes the fight easier with the right set up on them but doesn't change my opinion about them being damn near useless

In my opinion the -state of the rpg today- is fine there are plenty of good rpg's around I personally really enjoyed Darksiders, Dragon Age and Enhanted Arms even FF13 and soon diablo 3 will be out.

But the -state of the rpg I want to play today- is very poor because I want a Final fantasy game with beautifull grafics and it to be a mixture of the best parts for me of FF7,8,10,10-2 and I want the option of playing with the wait command on so I can sit back and relax while playing.

And here lies the problem rpg's are many different things to many different people for me its Final fantasy to other people its Fallout or Oblivionyet for others FF prior to 7 where the best.

So in the end it seems I may have the same problem as ben as there is a myraid of rpg's and styles to play but I'v gotten old and crotchety and I want to play MY style of RPG and not anyones elses but the game developers arent listening to crotchety old people stuck in there ways, ha bugger my mother warned me this would happen one day and I never listened :(

Man, I don't know what is is but I just never been able to get into the RPG's.

I've got tons of them in my PS1 & P@2 collections, and have sampled every one of them hoping that I'd enjoy them, but I found I really can't get into them & I get either bored out of my gourd, or I get totally frustrated with all the spells, magic, taking turns, etc, etc right away.

I've even tried to go back & play FF7 & Tactics every few years, just in the hopes that they can finally sway me, but still to this day, it's to no avail.

I've also played my PS2 FFX, FFX-2, FFXI, & FF XII too, and although they were 100% more interesting to me, I really couldn't totally get their game-play either.

FYI, I did get much further along in each of my PS2 FF games, but mainly cause I just wanted to immerse myself into the art itself, of each game.

And the whole time while playing them, the only 1 constant thing I kept on thinking was "Damn these games really a grind, but they're so beautiful that I just wish they was done as movies, rather than games".

But I don't think I'm ready to sign up a Twitcher 12-step program just yet, cause I still enjoy playing almost anything else, except for sports, or most strategy games.

BTW, I just happened to come across a 2003 PS2 game called "Culdcept" yesterday & the cover art alone sucked me in(not even realizing it was a RPG & a card game at that).

Well, It was in mint condition, with a perfect manual & case so I wound up buying it for $6 to add into my collection.

Now, I only had enough time last night to do little more than just to pop it in & watch the demo & also quickly skim through the manual.

It looks like some of the game's graphics are great, but....Holy Shite, after seeing how much frigging stuff that's in the manual, that you have to do, I think my brain's going to be fried sunny-side up in just the first couple minutes.

But I'm always game(pun intended)to try any game that's new to me, so I'll go in with an semi-virginal open mind & give this RPG a chance to win me over.

BTW, just curious here....has anyone actually played this "Culdcept" game, and by using in game-cards, would it still be considered as a real/true RPG too? And if so, did you consider it a decent RPG, or at least a good game???

Software developers seem to have given up on RPG's this generation. I would say for every 10 RPG that come across the PS3 only two are good ones. The old dogs like Square have totally sold out to short action based gaming.

I think it's up to gamers that know code to create good RPG's. We need innovation not based solely on profit like the creators did with the original counterstrike.