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THE DIP BLOG by Seth Godin

All Marketers Are Liars Blog

The end of the job interview

Let’s assert that there are two kinds of jobs you need to fill:

The first kind of job is a cog job. A job where you need someone to perform a measurable task and to follow instructions. This can range from stuffing envelopes to performing blood tests. It’s a profitable task if the person is productive, and you need to find a reliable, skilled person to do what you need.

The second kind of job requires insight and creativity. This job relies on someone doing something you could never imagine in advance, producing outcomes better than you had hoped for. This might include a sales job, or someone rearranging the factory floor to increase productivity. It could also include a skilled craftsperson or even a particularly skilled receptionist.

If you’re hiring for the first kind of job, exactly why are you sitting a nervous candidate down in your office and asking her to put on some sort of demonstration in her ability to interact with strangers under pressure? Why do you care what his suit looks like or whether or not he can look you in the eye?

Years ago, in order to keep the ethnic balance at Harvard the way some trustees felt was correct, the school created interviews and essays as a not-so-subtle way to weed out the undesirables. This spread to just about every college in the country, and persists to this day, even though it’s a largely discredited way to determine anything. Your company is probably doing exactly the same thing. If someone can do the cog job, what other information are you looking for? Why?

And if you’re hiring for the second kind of job, the question becomes even more interesting. Would you marry someone based on a one hour interview in a singles bar? And how does repeating the forced awkwardness of an interview across your entire team help you choose which people are going to do the extraordinary work you’re banking on?

I’ve been to thousands of job interviews (thankfully as an interviewer mostly) and I have come to the conclusion that the entire effort is a waste of time.

At least half the interview finds the interviewer giving an unplanned and not very good overview of what the applicant should expect from this job. Unlike most of the marketing communications the organization does, this spiel is unvetted, unnatural and unmeasured. No one has ever sat down and said, “when we say X, is it likely the applicant understands what we mean? Are we putting our best foot forward? Does it make it more likely that the right people will want to work here, for the right reasons?” [tell the truth, do you test your job interview spiel the same way you test your web results or even your direct mail?]

The other half is dedicated to figuring out whether the applicant is good at job interviews or not.

I should have learned this lesson in 1981, when my partner and I (and three of our managers) hired Susan, who was perhaps the best interviewer I have ever met. And one of the worst employees we ever hired. Too bad we didn’t have a division that sold interviews.

Let me be clear about what I’m recommending: the next time someone asks you to “sit in” on an interview, just say no. Don’t do it. Don’t waste your time or theirs.

So, what should you do instead?

Glad you asked!

First, none of this will work if you’re not offering a great job at a great company for fair pay. These techniques will not succeed if you are the employer of last resort. Assuming that’s not the case, how about his:

Every applicant gets a guided tour of your story. Maybe from a website or lens or DVD. Maybe from one person in your organization who is really good at this. It might mean a plant tour or watching an interview with the CEO. It might involve spending an hour sitting in one of your stores or following one of your doctors around on her rounds. But it’s a measurable event, something you can evaluate after the process is over. If you’re hiring more than a few people a week, clearly it’s worth having a full-time person to do this task and do it well.

There are no one-on-one-sit-in-my-office-and-let’s-talk interviews. Boom, you just saved 7 hours per interview. Instead, spend those seven hours actually doing the work. Put the person on a team and have a brainstorming session, or design a widget or make some espressos together. If you want to hire a copywriter, do some copywriting. Send back some edits and see how they’re received.

If the person is really great, hire them. For a weekend. Pay them to spend another 20 hours pushing their way through something. Get them involved with the people they’ll actually be working with and find out how it goes. Not just the outcomes, but the process. Does their behavior and insight change the game for the better? If they want to be in sales, go on a sales call with them. Not a trial run, but a real one. If they want to be a rabbi, have them give a sermon or visit a hospital.

Yes, people change after you hire them. They always do. But do they change more after an unrealistic office interview or after you’ve actually watched them get in the cage and tame a lion?

TrackBack

» Interviews from Keith Collins' True Marketing Experience
The problem with Seth’s idea about getting candidates to try a job before getting hired is that most people are already employed and even getting the time to attend an interview can be tricky (not considering their contractual issues). Another approa... [Read More]

Tracked on September 04, 2006 at 12:33 PM

» Job interviews - a waste of time? from Sales Blog | Cold Calling and Sales Blog
I found an interesting post today on my favorite blog, Seth Godin's. He says that job interviews are a waste of time; after all, would you marry someone based on a one-hour interview? Of course not. His words hit home [Read More]

Tracked on September 04, 2006 at 01:50 PM

» Interview from Alka Dwivedi
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Tracked on September 04, 2006 at 02:07 PM

» Seth's Blog: The end of the job interview from Chuqui 3.0
Seth's Blog: The end of the job interview: Let’s assert that there are two kinds of jobs you need to fill: The first kind of job is a cog job. A job where you need someone to perform a measurable task and to follow instructions. This can range from stu... [Read More]

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I have interviewed thousands of people while in corporate and agency staffing. I have also inteviewed for a few jobs as well. I love Seth Godin's post, The End of the Job Interview. You should read it... One thing that [Read More]

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Too much of what we do in business is simply because it has always been done that way. Seth Godin has some interesting thoughts on how the interview process might be changed to make it better for everyone involved [Read More]

» Crazy Interview Idea . . .that I love. from 4employers
This is a great article by Seth Godin. Seth is better known for his marketing genius but I have to say he is onto something here. And what is the most important of the marketing P's if it's not People. [Read More]

Tracked on September 05, 2006 at 05:06 AM

» Interviews.? from 360 Online Business
Well, I gotta love this guy. (Seth Godin) This is the type of thinking that I love. Lets face it, times change, people change, etc.. I havent done many interviews and I hope I dont ever have to, I would believe I would do good in the interview and not ... [Read More]

Tracked on September 05, 2006 at 08:10 AM

» Seth Godinsky on Interviews from The Recruiting Animal
Man, he's got it wrong. At least half the interview finds the interviewer giving an unplanned and not very good overview of what the applicant should expect from this job. Unlike most of the marketing communications the organization does, this [Read More]

Tracked on September 05, 2006 at 09:11 AM

» Job Interviewing a bad thing? from I was thinking...
I just got done reading an interesting post on Seth Godins blog (read it here) regarding job interviews in todays world. Seths premise is that jobs, other than cog in the machine type jobs, really need more than just a one hour i... [Read More]

Tracked on September 05, 2006 at 09:44 AM

» A New Way to Hire from Retail Crier
Seth Godin has a post here about the end of the job interview. He contends that job interviews are a waste of time, and that for the jobs where you need someone with creativity and insight you should give them... [Read More]

» How to Interview - Or Not from Random Thoughts on Life and Work
Lets change directions just a bit today and talk about staffing. A relevant topic for every organization that has employees. How do you find the right people to do the work that your organization needs done? How much time do you spend ma... [Read More]

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Tracked on September 06, 2006 at 01:23 AM

» The end of the job interview from RaSchi's Valhalla
Seth Godin has a couple of interesting thoughts on job interviews as a recruiting instrument (basically denying any effectiveness). Having gone through a number if interviews in the last couple of months, I must say that I can truely follow his argumen... [Read More]

Tracked on September 06, 2006 at 05:12 AM

» No More Interviews from RasterWeb!
Seth Godin thinks most companies should put an end to the job interview process. Hes probably right
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Tracked on September 06, 2006 at 01:24 PM

» Re-inventing the job interview from Lee Iwan, Bits and Pieces of Accumulated Experience
Ive been monitoring with great interest the idea and reactions to Seth Godins post The end of the job interview. He questions our current job interview process and proposes an interesting alternative.
Perhaps its time to take a ha... [Read More]

Tracked on September 06, 2006 at 01:24 PM

» The Un Job Interview from Management Craft
There's been quite a bit of buzz about a post Seth Godin did called, The End of the Job Interview.And if you’re hiring for the second kind of job, the question becomes even more interesting. Would you marry someone based [Read More]

» Finding the Best Employees from Meryl.net
Seth Godin hasnt been relying on job interview for a long time. Before I read the part about one of the worst employees he ever had I immediately recalled a time when my team interviewed candidates (after the manager conducted the interv... [Read More]

Tracked on September 07, 2006 at 09:39 AM

» The job interview is dead! from Observations from a Tech Architect: Enterprise Implementation Issues & Solutions
Don't bother mourning - just move on... I have had the same issues for a long time with interviews both giving and receiving. Sometimes it takes some one of Seth Godin's caliber to relate it properly. Read The end of... [Read More]

Tracked on September 07, 2006 at 12:45 PM

» The job interview is dead! from Observations from a Tech Architect: Enterprise Implementation Issues & Solutions
Don't bother mourning - just move on... I have had the same issues for a long time with interviews both giving and receiving. Sometimes it takes some one of Seth Godin's caliber to relate it properly. Read The end of... [Read More]

Tracked on September 07, 2006 at 12:47 PM

» Seth's Blog: The end of the job interview from Chuqui 3.0
Seth's Blog: The end of the job interview: Let’s assert that there are two kinds of jobs you need to fill: The first kind of job is a cog job. A job where you need someone to perform a measurable task and to follow instructions. This can range from stu... [Read More]

Tracked on September 07, 2006 at 11:35 PM

» Job Interviews: From Suck to Blow from Connexxions
I'm reading Seth Godin's blog about the hiring process. Honestly, I think he's a great mind, but I rarely read his blog...Why? Because everyone else is. Anyway, this particular post caught my eye on the RSS. Recently, I've been going [Read More]

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» Love the Seth from News Worthy
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Tracked on September 11, 2006 at 06:06 AM

» The Broken Job Interview Process from D. Brown Online - Project Management Productivity & Construction Operations
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Last week, I followed Carolins permanent advice once again and enhanced my diet by bying some fruit. The grapes looked very nice in the shop, but when I took them out of their plastic bag the next day, many of the ones at the bottom had already started to [Read More]