The Grandest Conspiracy Ever Known. The New Age Religion of the Unproven Speculation (theory) of Evo

I'm wondering if people understand the concept of evolution.... seems some are expecting evolution to do a Superman to Batman morph.

"A small handful of European mice deposited on the island of Madeira some 600 years ago have now evolved into at least six different species. The
island is very rocky and the mice became isolated into different niches. The original species had 40 chromosomes, but the new populations have
anywhere between 22-30 chromosomes. They haven't lost DNA, but rather, some chromosomes have fused together over time and so the mice can now only
breed with others with the same number of chromosomes, making each group a separate species."

Originally posted by begoodbees
The fact that so many people religiously believe the most unlikely and implausible explanation for where the most sophisticated objects in the
known universe (living things) originated is the best evidence of this global conspiracy.

The utter obsurdity of this unproven speculation

Science doesn't "believe", and for sure not religiously.

Science is about observation and proposing the most likely, plausible theory.

Science is also not bound to dogmas, it actually welcomes change, revisions, improvement..always looking for answers and then making the most
plausible theory from it. Nothing is set in stone.

NOTHING of that is eg what religion does, religion is non-logic, is ONLY assuming, is never ready and willing to change, it's set in stone and based
on dogma.

If you call the theory of evolution a speculation, you are entirely right.

But trying to COUNTER this with your silly creation link?

Oh wait! The man with the white beard is MORE logical, it's more plausible, right?

Also..your distaste for the so called "new age religion" is quite funny. Since you link to a creationism site with bible quotes cited you come
across like the biggest hypocrite.

Didn't learn anything in...2000 or so years since we have Christianity than "nanananana - my religion is better then yours?" No wonder people
running away from churches left and right.

Another funny thing: You creatonism people seem to get a kick out of pointing out inconsistencies in scientific theories. HINT: Scientists are aware
of inconsistencies in theories THIS is what's called science, to find out the whys and whats and trying to get out the inconsistencies to make a
better theory. No theory or invention is perfect. Unless YOUR theory, of course.

Finally, a rational response.

The point I am making is that people believe it religiously because it is portrayed as fact and the only possibility
on tv and in schools.

I cannot prove this of course but it is what common sense dictates to an open mind.

Here's the issue I have with how debates like this often go. People stoop to implying that the opposing side doesn't have common sense, education,
or an open mind.

You're taking a much more questionable leap by saying these sediments are all the result of one great flood...many would say that the common sense
interpretation is that these fossil layers occur over millions and millions of years. There are legitimate ways of verifying this. One great flood may
result in a single layer.

And the differences in fossils show entirely different ecosystems from layer to layer...

I'm confused. Is this thread about creationism vs evolution, or are you more concerned with what other people believe?

On topic:

Why can't both be true? Who's to say that we weren't created and then left on this planet to evolve on our own? One theory or the other does not
have more merit than the other, except evolution has more science behind it than creationism does. But it does not have all the answers. In the end I
would be willing to bet a little bit of both are true.

As far as what people believe.....who cares? Their beliefs are no threat to your's. Believe what you want and I wouldn't care what others believe.

Unfortunately, there is flaw in your argument imo. You have stated "one theory or the other". This I see as wrong. Evolution is imo, now FACT
anpoint 1 and religion is NOT a theory, it is a dogma. an unflinching "belief" based on FAITH

What about dog breeds? Man has breed many completely different breeds in a rather short amount of time. Some breeds are so different now they cannot
mate anymore, sure its still a dog but may aswell be a totally different species. Although man made rather then survival of fittest but it proves how
much genetics can change in a short amount of time.

Originally posted by begoodbees
The fact that so many people religiously believe the most unlikely and implausible explanation for where the most sophisticated objects in the
known universe (living things) originated is the best evidence of this global conspiracy.

"Unlikely and implausible explanation" That is creationism in a nutshell.

Originally posted by begoodbees
The utter obsurdity of this unproven speculation that somehow something as complex as even a single cell could manifest on its own in a pool of
chemicals is mind boggling. Add to that the complexity of DNA and it becomes not just implausible but impossible.

This is abiogenesis. Nothing to do with evolution whatsoever. Complete strawman.

Originally posted by begoodbees
Why do so many people believe this so easily while scrutinizing everything else so carefully. This seams to be the one area where otherwise
scientific minded people choose to believe in magic. This is why I and I believe many others have labeled evolution not an observable or provable
science but in fact a religion.

Strawman. Blatant and wilful misrepresentation of the science.

Originally posted by begoodbees
Many people I believe have been bullied into a middle ground stance that life was created to evolve which makes very little sense as well since
there are no transitional fossils on record. Every past so called evidence of transitional species has been eventually proven phony such as pig tooth
man better known as Nebraska man.

Pig tooth man was portrayed in true propaganda style on the news as the missing link. If the news propaganda machine does this in any other arena
critical thinkers and conspiracy theorists would instantly see the seeds of conspiracy, but with evolution we have been programmed/indoctrinated that
any explanation other than evolution is just plain ignorance. I wonder how many times I will be bullied and called ignorant for presenting these
facts.

Yes it was portrayed in the popular news as the 'Missing Link'. It was NOT referred to as such in any scientific journal. Even the man who initially
identified it, Henry Fairfield Osborn of the American Museum of Natural History said:

"Until we secure more of the dentition, or parts of the skull or of the skeleton, we cannot be certain whether Hesperopithecus is a ... Hominidae."
He was of the opinion that it was Hominidae, but as stated, was not prepared to conclude that it was without further evidence.

Yes, by 1927, it was determined BY SCIENTISTS to be from a pig... not looking too good for your 'conspiracy by scientists' claim. In fact, any claim
of the sort is a gross misrepresentation of the events.

Originally posted by begoodbees

In classrooms all over the world and on every nature/science show that I have seen in my lifetime evolution is presented as fact. I never hear
them say “Scientists speculate” before mentioning the subject. Why is something with nothing but circumstantial evidence being presented as
factual science? I know what the religious fanatics will say, but if it cannot be observed and reproduced than it is not science.

Opposing evolution in the modern day is like opposing any other prevalent religion in the past. Persecution is what follows.

They don't say "Scientists speculate" because it is not speculation. It is demonstrated by the empirical evidence found separately in biology,
palaeontology, embryology and genetics.

Denigrating something as a 'religion' isn't supporting your case. Its a strawman and a hypocritical one at that.

And as for persecution, please cite any examples where an evolution denier has been placed under house arrest, tortured, burnt at the stake, been
dismembered, been denied permission to serve in public office or denied the right to appear as a witness in a court of law. etc.

Originally posted by begoodbees

It seems evident to me that species were created to sustain themselves within a given set of parameters, thus variations can and should occur. One
species changing to another more complex species defies logic. The line given is usually as follows “slight genetic mutations over time, survival of
the fittest and abracadabra humans are born”. The problem I see with this is that there has never been a case of a genetic mutation that was
beneficial to an animal or human. What they call genetic mutations the general public calls birth defects and although they might not all be crippling
none of them are beneficial or an improvement upon the norm.

This is incorrect. There are many genetic mutations we know of right now that are beneficial. The claim you are making is known as the 8th
Foundational Falsehood of Creationism. Refutation of your claim can be found at the following link:

Originally posted by homeslice
What about dog breeds? Man has breed many completely different breeds in a rather short amount of time. Some breeds are so different now they cannot
mate anymore, sure its still a dog but may aswell be a totally different species. Although man made rather then survival of fittest but it proves how
much genetics can change in a short amount of time.

How did that happen? Human intervention, and when you test the future dogs DNA it will still be dog DNA no matter what the dog looks like.

Thank you for all of the replies but unless someone has something new to add, I feel I am beating a dead horse. The answers to most of these questions
were given in the op. Unless someone has any evidence/proof (see definition in dictionary). I will refrain from feeling obligated to respond to every
post.

Are you aware that the human genome and the banana genome are about 50% identical. Bringing DNA into the discussion helps the evolution argument, as
the mechanisms throughout life on Earth are by and large the same...which may point to common anscestory from simple organisms a billion years
back.

Are you aware that the human genome and the banana genome are about 50% identical. Bringing DNA into the discussion helps the evolution argument, as
the mechanisms throughout life on Earth are by and large the same...which may point to common anscestory from simple organisms a billion years
back.

edit on 12/13/2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: (no reason given)

Yeah and a pick up and a sedan share about 70 percent of the same parts but one did not evolve from the other. You are stating opinion not fact. And
all computers use electricity because they were all created by man.

Please prove how adaptive response is not the same thing as evolution.

It is YOU who are speculating based on some religiously inclined nonsense you read on the internet, which doesn't provide a SINGLE ounce of
scientific fact to back up claims.

So forgive me for not taking your one line response as an actual response. You'd like to make wild claims about evolution not being real, I suggest
you do some of your own research to back up those claims instead of refuting them off hand.

Please prove how adaptive response is not the same thing as evolution.

It is YOU who are speculating based on some religiously inclined nonsense you read on the internet, which doesn't provide a SINGLE ounce of
scientific fact to back up claims.

So forgive me for not taking your one line response as an actual response. You'd like to make wild claims about evolution not being real, I suggest
you do some of your own research to back up those claims instead of refuting them off hand.

There is nothing to prove. Apples and Oranges. Please prove how adaptive response can make a species become more complex. I found that
link to support my argument, my argument did not originate there. The fact that you and so many others are supporting evolution so adamantly (having
no real proof to offer) instead of acknowledging doubt only goes to support my original thesis that you have been religiously indoctrinated.

Unless it changes into a different species it is variation not evolution.

Good grief ! You wanted an example of a different species evolving. In that example provided it explains how these new species of mice have evolved
and are unable to reproduce with the original species that was first introduced to the island 600 years ago.

Originally posted by begoodbees

I do not dispute variations (gradual changes) such as plants becoming pesticide resistant. I dispute one species changing into another more advanced
species.

.... you wanna be Batman?

Or... you want to know if there are species of primates with more advanced abilities than you?

I suggest you google the term 'Chimps that outperforms humans'
You'll find several scholarly articles and videos that highlight the human like abilities of chimps as well as their superiority/advanced abilities in
some tasks.... eg www.youtube.com...

I sincerely thought that someone would have some sort of valid argument to at least make me question my beliefs on this matter. How disappointing.

It may help if you would state exactly what your beliefs are. And from your overall tone, it doesn't seem as if you approached this thread with any
intent of accepting counter-evidence.

No big deal though, as long as you keep trying to learn and have a good time.

The thing is as a truth seeker I have already poored over the evidence and found it lacking. This whole business is just another diversion from truth.
I mean just look at the responses I am getting. It is as if I am attacking someones religion.

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