A podcast about the design, development, and business of great software. Each week thoughtbot's Chad Pytel (CEO) and Lindsey Christensen (CMO) are joined by the people who build and nurture the products we love.

Ben talks with Dan Martell, CEO and founder of Clarity, about self-actualization in business, how life is affected by those around which one surrounds themselves and the value of staying outside one's comfort zone.