Here is an interesting posting in a Cardinals blog (http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/story/2007/6/12/95434/6705) that was cited on mlbtraderumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/). Now, it isn't exactly pleasant to read fans of another team plotting how to get one of our favorite players. But there's a pretty detailed analysis of what other trades for top pitchers have required.

MRM

06-13-2007, 12:44 AM

Here is an interesting posting in a Cardinals blog (http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/story/2007/6/12/95434/6705) that was cited on mlbtraderumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/). Now, it isn't exactly pleasant to read fans of another team plotting how to get one of our favorite players. But there's a pretty detailed analysis of what other trades for top pitchers have required.

What is interesting is how well informed and rational they are.

oeo

06-13-2007, 02:52 AM

What is interesting is how well informed and rational they are.

No, what is interesting is how Sox fans still do not know how to spell Buehrle's name. Even the Cards fan got it right.

It doesn't make much sense for the Cardinals to go after him in a trade. And we can match whatever the Cards offer (Buehrle has already said he would come back if offered similar deals) in Free Agency, so I'm not worried about them at all.

Nellie_Fox

06-13-2007, 03:13 AM

And we can match whatever the Cards offer (Buehrle has already said he would come back if offered similar deals) in Free Agency, so I'm not worried about them at all.Ah, maybe they can,but the question is, will they? If the Cardinals offer him a 5 year (or longer) contract, will the Sox match it? They have always opposed long-term contracts for pitchers.

oeo

06-13-2007, 03:36 AM

Ah, maybe they can,but the question is, will they? If the Cardinals offer him a 5 year (or longer) contract, will the Sox match it? They have always opposed long-term contracts for pitchers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cardinals don't like to offer long term contracts to pitchers either. 4 years and a club option is as far as I would go, and I'm one of Buehrle's biggest fans. If the Cards want to give him that extra year, it's going to hurt, but bye.

Nellie_Fox

06-13-2007, 03:56 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cardinals don't like to offer long term contracts to pitchers either. 4 years and a club option is as far as I would go, and I'm one of Buehrle's biggest fans. If the Cards want to give him that extra year, it's going to hurt, but bye.I don't know whether the Cards will offer a long-term deal; I was just responding to you saying that "we" can match whatever they offer.

MRM

06-13-2007, 04:01 AM

No, what is interesting is how Sox fans still do not know how to spell Buehrle's name. Even the Cards fan got it right.

It doesn't make much sense for the Cardinals to go after him in a trade. And we can match whatever the Cards offer (Buehrle has already said he would come back if offered similar deals) in Free Agency, so I'm not worried about them at all.

Who cares if anyone can spell his awkward name? but the fact Cards fans can only adds credence to my observation that they are well informed.

Of course the Cards aren't going to go after him in trade and I doubt they pursue him in FA but what on earth makes you think they can't offer him something the Sox won't/can't match? That's an incredible amount of arrogance unless you happen to work in the Sox front office and are privvy to such things...

oeo

06-13-2007, 11:28 AM

Who cares if anyone can spell his awkward name? but the fact Cards fans can only adds credence to my observation that they are well informed.

Because if the man spends his whole career here, he will end up being one of our all-time greats. It's not like he's a rookie, he's been here for 7 years; we should know his name by now.

Malgar 12

06-13-2007, 11:45 AM

Because if the man spends his whole career here, he will end up being one of our all-time greats. It's not like he's a rookie, he's been here for 7 years; we should know his name by now.

True, but you do need to cut they guy some slack. It's not like he spelled it Berlee.

ND_Sox_Fan

06-13-2007, 12:28 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cardinals don't like to offer long term contracts to pitchers either. 4 years and a club option is as far as I would go, and I'm one of Buehrle's biggest fans. If the Cards want to give him that extra year, it's going to hurt, but bye.

Given their recent history with Mulder and Carpenter - one has to believe that they will think twice before offering any 5-year deals.

soxtalker

06-13-2007, 12:35 PM

OK. I've been a fan for long enough -- many decades -- that I should have spelled Buehrle's name correctly.

Having said that, I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been any discussion of the detailed analysis of the past deadline trades for top-name pitchers. A common thread among fans is to overestimate the value of our players in trades. I've also heard the opposite perspective (from fans, but also from media) that teams have gotten very little for rent-a-players at the deadline in recent years. The thing that was interesting about the analysis on the Cardinals blog was that some of the big-name pitchers have indeed yielded prospects that turned into very good players in just a few years.

jabrch

06-13-2007, 01:25 PM

Wainright and Rasmus - where do I sign?

2 or 3 of Rasmus/Jay and Garcia/Hawksworth? Yeah - I'd think about it.

some package with Anaheim including Wood/Aybar and Conger/Mathis from Anaheim? Adenhardt?

Jeff Clement and Morrow or Butler from Seattle?

I'd love Saltalamacchia.

Either Pelfrey/Humber and Martinez or Gomez from the Mets? I'd do it.

I'd trade Mark for a TOP TIER package if we could get one. I'd miss him - but eventually we'd be better off.

Jerksticks

06-13-2007, 02:01 PM

The StL chat was very informative. If you didn't notice, they praised the hell outa Buehrle. Point is, his value is through the roof at this deadline. Any team with any starting pitching hole would do anything for a young, durable, consistent, playoff tested, world series tested, no hitter/1 hitter/2 hitter, efficient machine. If anything we undervalue Buehrle.

That being said who are the TOP prospects out there...Like potential superstars. Colby Rasmus is exciting. Look at the dude's stats. I would want nothing less than a potential superstar, and I think we can get that.

chaerulez

06-13-2007, 02:05 PM

Wainright and Rasmus - where do I sign?

2 or 3 of Rasmus/Jay and Garcia/Hawksworth? Yeah - I'd think about it.

some package with Anaheim including Wood/Aybar and Conger/Mathis from Anaheim? Adenhardt?

Jeff Clement and Morrow or Butler from Seattle?

I'd love Saltalamacchia.

Either Pelfrey/Humber and Martinez or Gomez from the Mets? I'd do it.

I'd trade Mark for a TOP TIER package if we could get one. I'd miss him - but eventually we'd be better off.

Pelfrey + Martinez would be a steal. Maybe we can throw in Jose and get Lastings and Humber too. :smile:

Tragg

06-13-2007, 06:40 PM

Either Pelfrey/Humber and Martinez or Gomez from the Mets? I'd do it.

I'd trade Mark for a TOP TIER package if we could get one. I'd miss him - but eventually we'd be better off.
Avoid Mets' AAA pitchers like the plague. Theiy pitch in an extreme pitchers ballpark; the Mets have been begging them to step up for 2 seasons, and they haven't.
I'd prefer MB signed to an extension to any package of prospects.