What happened to the British billion? When did 100,000,000 become accepted as a billion over here? And where does this leave the trillion?

Jonny Cohen, Leeds, UK

In 1975 Chancellor Denis Healey announced that the treasury would adopt the US billion thenceforth. Presuambly at the same time what was a billion became a trillion - after all, UK inflation was at its highest whilst he was the incumbent of Number 11!

Jeff Vagg, Beckenham, UK

I'm afraid it's a function of so many people being both illiterate and innumerate.

David Pollard, Croydon, England

The British billion is 1000,000,000 as elsewhere. The 'old' billion was 1000,000,000,000; this is now the trillion. For global communication uniformity is essential. This has been demonstrated by the loss of time and hardware in space when metric units were misinterpreted as 'imperial'.

Mike Abram, Lincoln, England

I think it happened about the same time as Mrs Thatcher finally flogged our dignity off to America. I still maintain the 'proper' billion ... but then I still write: 'connexion'!

Stewart, Istanbul, Turkey

I have to point out that the question itself is wrong - 1,000,000,000 is accepted as a billion over here, not 100,000,000 as the author has stated.

Chris, London, England

Not sure about this, but I think the British equivalent, now redundant, of the US billion (one thousand million) was a milliard. The British billion would have been one million million - the same as the US, and now universal, trillion.

Dave McNamee, London, England

Never - 100,000,000 is one hundred million. The American billion is one thousand million: 1,000,000,000. The trillion is also the American version now - one thousand billion.

Gordon Rutter, Edinburgh, Scotland

I'm pretty sure that the 'British' billion was 1,000,000,000,000 (ie a million million) whereas the US one that has now been adopted is 1,000,000,000 (a thousand million).

Max Wurr, Stanmore, England

To Americans and the French, a billion means a thousand millions (1,000,000,000, or 10 to the ninth, what some British call a milliard, a term that seems never to have been widely accepted).

To the British, including the Empire and the Commonwealth, billion has long meant a million millions (1,000,000,000,000, or 10 to the twelfth), what Americans call a trillion.

It was to avoid this ambiguity that scientists, technical writers, and others to whom a few zeros more or less might make a difference, came to avoid the words altogether and refer to a thousand millions or a million millions when the use of numerals was not appropriate. Gradually, however, the American version began to predominate.

Fowler merely noted the difference in Modern English Usage in 1926, but the second edition (1965) lamented: It is a pity we [the British] do not conform. The third (1996) observes that since 1951 the American usage has been increasing in Britain in technical writing and journalism but that the older sense is still common. In the past decade, the British government has been using the terms in the American sense in official publications.

The same ambiguity exists as to trillion (to Americans, a thousand thousand millions, or 10 to the 12th; to the British, a million million millions, or 10 to the 18th) and quadrillion (to Americans, a thousand thousand thousand millions, or 10 to the 15th; to British, a million million million millions, or 10 to the 24th).

Bill Dunlap, Hamden, Connecticut USA

The original meaning of billion, established in the 15th century, was "a million of a million" (1,000,000 to the power of 2, hence the name billion), or 10 to the power of 12 = 1 000 000 000 000. This system, known in French as the "long scale", is currently used in most countries where English is not the primary language.
In the late 17th century a change was made in the way of writing large numbers. Numbers had been separated into groups of six digits, but at this time the modern grouping of three digits came into use. As a result, a minority of Italian and French scientists began using the word "billion" to mean 10 to the power of 9 (one thousand million, or 1 000 000 000), and correspondingly redefined trillion etc. to mean powers of one thousand rather than one million. This is known in French as the "short scale" and is now officially used by all English-speaking countries, as well as Brazil, Puerto Rico, Russia, Turkey and Greece.
Incidentally, the American billion is 1,000,000,000, rather than 100,000,000.

John Rymell, Stepney, England

Curiously, about four years ago, I wrote the Guardian to ask which "billion" they used: the US (1000 million) or the French (million million). The old "British billion" was the French. It was a bit difficult to understand Guardian articles when large numbers are used if you do not know which billion is referenced.
The US billion has become universally used in English-speaking countries. In 1974, British government statistics adopted the US billion. The UK press conforms.
The French have shifted about between meanings but finally confirmed the "French" billion in 1961. Most non-English speaking nations follow the French with the notable exceptions of Russia and Brazil.
Because the public rarely have any experience with such large numbers, the use of the French billion persists in Britain, especially among the elderly and the classical. In contrast, a US Senator, Everett Dirkson, reportedly once remarked, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money".

David Dreaming Bear, Horsethief Canyon, CA, USA

This all rather put me in mind of another misunderstanding about numbers. George Bush was (allegedly) informed during the Iraq war that three Brazilian soldiers had been killed. "Oh my God!" he said "That's terrible. Remind me again - just how many is a Brazilian?"

David Elliott, Sheffield, UK

The Milliard (1.000.000.000) is still alive and well in German speaking countries by the way. It is indeed the term that was lost in the UK when we took over the US system.

Andy Armistead, Poole, United Kingdom

I seem to remember even Fowler, in his Modern English Usage, pointing out that the American billion is really rather more useful than the British one. If I'm right, the adoption of the US billion's been a bit longer coming than anyone here seems to recognise.

Gareth Roberts, Edinburgh, Scotland

If it makes you Brits feel better, I can inform you that we Swedes stick to the older terminology:
Miljard = 1,000,000,000
Biljon = 1,000,000,000,000

Fredrik Maartmann, Stockholm Sweden

In the Chinese language, a billion is 100,000,000. It is still widely used today. When I first picked up the English language, I was often confused. One billion (1,000,000,000) is equivalent to 10 Chinese billion.

Benny, London, UK

The milliard is how the French call the US billion (10e9). They don't really ever use billion ...

Raphael, Provence, France

The wholesale adoption of everything American is depressing, I lament the loss of adverbs, pronunciation of two-thousand-and-eight. Billion comes from Bi-Million, the second power of a million. Using the 3rd power of one-thousand is meaningless. So is Log-in, I work in IT I refuse to use Log-in as opposed to Log-on. I must be a dinosaur that were taught to speak good (eh?)

Andrew Frazer, Cheltenham England

A billion in mathematics is one million to the power 2, or one million times one million. Bi meaning 2, as in bicycle, bi-plane or even base-2 number (binary numerical system) etc..
A trillion is one million to the power 3, tricycle, triangle, triang - hornby trainset (?).
Anyhow, it makes 'sense', which is something Americans lack so let's not follow them more than we need to.

Jemmy Hanson, Ashton-In-Makerfield, England

I think, in the interest of good sense and logic, that we should return to the old British billion or one million to the power of two. The Americans can follow our lead for a change!

Tim Holloway, Ludlow

When I was studying my accountancy, a British woman I worked with told how me England regarded the number 1,000,000,000,000 as one billion. To the best of her knowledge, she believed the Americans changed this number "billion" to 1,000,000,000 so individual Americans could attain "Billionaire Status." Given that I lived north of the 49th parallel for the first 21 years of my life, I would agree with this British woman that this statement could be accurate.
American Mathematics:
Status=Culture &
1000,000,000,000=1000,000,000

C. Futter, Sydney, Australia

This morning '10-3-2010' Alistair Darling announced that our National Debt had reached £178 billion. I did a calculation, converting Pounds Sterling to seconds. That many seconds goes back to 3630 bc! That was the year that Seth was born and he was Noah's eldest son.

Michael Smart, Scunthorpe

I am surprised that the French invented the "incorrect" billion, given that they had "milliard" in their language. Well done the Swedes for sticking to commonsense.

Rod Simmonds, Malvern

Shem was Noah's eldest son, not Seth.

Ivan Martin, Northern Ireland

The British Billion was 1,000,000,000,000 until circa 1974 when American astronomers decided to de-value it to 100,000,000,000 as they said it was easier to calculate light years.
Then someone adopted 1,000,000,000 as the new billion. This is all nonsense, what about all the books that have been written using the original British billion? Who is going to understand them? It seems to me that if a name has been allotted to a collection of numbers, then that is how it should stand.
Why should we follow the Americans: They don't speak English anyway, or do the same Maths!

Peter Thomas, Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, UK

1,000,000,000 should now be the universal standard used by all countries that use the iso (metric)system as this is all correctly based on units of 10 to the power of 3.
eg grammes and kilogrammes
mm, metres and kilometres
etc using outdated systems such as 14lbs in a stone is madness when we almost universally count in units of tens,hundreds etc.
keep every thing simple which is what was intended when the iso system was introduced

Chris Dillon, Seaton Sluice United Kingdom

I am an American expatriate living in Germany since 2000. I have adopted the German number scheme and I must confess I like it. It just seems more standardized. And on that note: I wish the US would finally accept the SI system and just remove itself from the list of only three nations not using the international standard. It is just ridiculous. The only thing that I am not so fond of here is using a decimal point for the thousands marker and a comma for the decimal marker. A bit confusing there...but that seems standard in the German speaking world. Not sure why.
Anyhow, here is the system in Germany:
1E6 = 1 million
1E9 = 1 milliarde
1E12 = 1 billion
1E15 = 1 billiarde
1E18 = 1 trillion
1E21 = 1 trilliarde
and so on...

Larry Lowe, Wiesbaden Germany

Bring back the original meanings of words, we should be using the word "milliard" instead of this annoying Americanism.

William Westaway, Edinburgh, Scotland

As a little boy, well maybe not so little, I was taught that a million was 1x10to the 12th
a billion = 1x10 to the 24th
a trillion 10 to the 48th
etc.
I have refused to change.

Bob Lewies, Chatham. Ontario, Canada

One old American = one new dullard.
One new presbyter = one old priest writ large

Mavis Enderby, Cheam, UK

While the official use of one billion in the UK may have changed to 1000,000,000 I think that colloquially many Brits still use the original 1000,000,000,000 version. That was certainly the way I was taught growing up, even though I was born almost a decade after the change.
I think it's safe to say that the change was more to do with the US financial dominance (and therefore the dominance of the US financial/numeric systems) than any belief that the 'US system' was in any way better or more useful.

How sad to see so many old people refuse to change in the face of better systems. Maybe if old people were more flexible young people wouldn't hate them so much.

Mitur Binesderti, Spankerton US

This blows my mind that you crazy cats in the UK would want to reeling off numbers like ..... seven hundred and thirty nine thousand, two hundred and three million, eight hundred and twenty two thousand, five hundred and eleven.......

Darcy, Melbourne, VIC Australia

It's easy.
10^6 -> One million
"(n+1)-illion" -> million "(n)-illion"
(for example, one billion is a million million; or one trillion is a million billion, and so on...)

Carlos, Igualada Spain

Given much of the USA is obsessed with money it follows that turning one thousand million into a billion sounds great - until you start to talk about deficit and interest. Maybe the current crisis will knock a bit of sense into the argument because it isnt just money that's affected. Many estimates of population growth from the first half of last century predicted a true billion by the end of this century - thankfully we are less than even ten thousand million at the moment.

Paul, Hobart Australia

Just for fun I "googled" billimetre!

Paul, Hobart Australia

I am Spanish and found very confusing at first this because I was taught one billion was "a million of millions", that is 1.000.000.000.000.

Lois, Stirling Scotland

Some things seem to go round in circles - through our empire, half the world adopted some of our terms and spelling and now we are adopting American terms!
One thing I wish the rest of Europe would adopt of ours (aside from the £!) is the , to indicate a thousand instead of the . It's quite shocking to receive the bill after lunch and momentarily think that I owe 12,456!
And how the Yanks manage to measure anything in that crazy system of theirs (ours), I don't know.
And what the hell does a fluid ounce look like?

James, Ipswich England

All this is very interesting. I came here look for answers not to give an answer but in the sense of fair play I thought illuminating (or rather "making less dark") the madness of the American systems of measure would be interesting. In America we simply go about our business using difficult measures all the time. 1 fluid oz, you say? Well it's 1/16th of a pint because "a pint's a pound the world around". Oh you've got 20 ounces in your pint? No matter "the world around" actually just means America, it's difficult for most Americans to think of a world beyond the Atlantic and the Pacific. And in America we like to think of fluid in weight; that is, the weight of water. So 8 of those ounces is a cup. Two cups is a pint. Two pints is a quart and 4 quarts in a gallon. (quart=a quarter of a gallon get it?) and because we love to measure our fluid in weight, we all know that 128 oz, is a gallon, 64 oz is a half gallon, and 32 oz. is a quart. If you aren't sufficiently confused yet, just wait till you realize that a ton is .9090.... of a metric ton, so we have short tons (2000 lbs) and metric tons (1000 kg or 2200 lbs). And we haven't even gotten to the cockery of the 5280 foot mile!

Josh McClure, Chicago USA

Mine is not exactly an answer but more in the way of questions: 'Why do we have to copy everything the Americans do? Do they own and rule the world now? If every American committed suicide, would we?
I say we British should revert back to our own old ideals and keep 12 zeros in a billion (1 million million) and 24 zeros in a trillion (1 billion billion).

Roy Ivamy, Portsmouth, Hants.

I'd always thought that the prefixes (M)illion for 1 (B)illion for 2 (Tr)illion for 3 (quadr)illion for 4 were the powers to which the basic million is raised. Thus a billion is a million squared, a trillion is a million cubed, a quadrillion is a million raised to the fourth power and so on.

William Jackson, Cirencester UK

Let me put this into some perspective. The difference between the US billion and UK billion is that for every person in Salzburg State, Germany they would have recently discovered that they have lost only é6000 each as opposed to 6 million euros!
Maybe we should ask the US to consider spelling billion with one 'l' as it is smaller!

Bill Gates, Greenwich UK

Having read through the list of replies, I feel that I am not an outcast but someone who thinks. Adopting American meanings leads to confusion.
I saw a program recently where the presenter said that Pluto was 3,600 million miles away, then a minute later said it was 3.6 billion miles away. Now that is one hell of an eliptical orbit. And this is someone who works at the LHC!
I take issue with the comment regarding old people and not adopting the 'new billion'. Having a 'living language' where new words are added and meanings change is good, but altering the value of a number just to make it seem that there are more 'billionaires' living in the States is, well just cheap! I grew up knowing the distances in (proper) billions and that is how I use them. If others wish to express billion in the smaller sense then they must make sure that it is backed up by showing the number of zeros used (ie 2.3 billion, 2,300,000,000) that way there is no confusion. As for the really confusing and illogical use of a decimal point being a thousand division, why? In language do we finish a paragraph with a comma? No. So why show a number with a comma as in 914,012 and not 914.012 when the first number looks to be a thousand times bigger? What next, my left arm is actually my right one?

John, Liverpool

I'm amused by the solidarity amongst the UK commentators here. Frankly, it doesn't really matter to me which term we use linguistically, as long as we have a unified definition.
I'm an American, and I had never heard of a different billion before. When I saw a website that referenced this UK/US difference, I looked it up and arrived here.
For me, one billion has always been 1,000,000,000. While I understand the semantics behind billion, trillion, and quadrillion being, respectively, million raised to the second, third, and fourth powers, it seems to me that this definition has some obvious setbacks.
First of all, in writing, it would be cumbersome to write one thousand million, which could easily be shortened to thillion or some such term. But since most of the English-speaking world already uses billion for this number, why not continue to do so, regardless of the original term?
One person brought up a good point: What about the old texts that reference an old 'British Billion'?
I reckon for most people who delve into old texts, they either already know or are most certainly willing to discover such disparities for themselves. It is also likely that statistical, financial, or census data in the past has already been converted into digital format, so there shouldn't be much of an issue with folks digging up dusty old records and misunderstanding them.
I highly doubt that in this information age, the difference between the old "British Billion" and the US billion would remain hidden from the curious inquirer.
In any case, in the name of science and for the sake of never having to say "one thousand million" I will continue to use the American billion. It is just simpler.
I hope everyone on the other side of the pond will still understand me!

Josh, San Jose, CA US

Ahhhhh... Josh, San Jose, CA US... spoken like a true American.

Kristian, Manchester U.K. of G.B. & N.I.

An article above written by an American mentions that older British people use the "French" billion. Rubbish! The British billion is a million millions and I can assure you that as a teacher that is what we teach at school, not the U.S. billion i.e. 1000 millions.

PhilipII, Manchester Reino Unido

There's no such thing as 'British' billion, 'French' billion, 'American' billion or any other billion. A billion will always be a billion, regardless of what it's name is.
Bi signifies 2 in any language. Not 1,000.

Jemmy Hanson (again), Ashton in Makerfield England

Good on you Jemmy!
It's very refreshing to get a simple, sensible, and accurate answer. I feel sure that BI means 2 -- even in America. eg:BiPlane, BiPartisan etc.therefore a Million Million must equal a BIllion. Take a bow Jemmy.

Phil Stanton, Mandurah Western Australia

KISS (keep it simple stupid )
£1,000,000,000 = 1 billion
£10,000,000,000 = 10 billion
£100,000,000,000 = 100 billion
£1,000,000,000,000 = 1 trillion or a million million if you like & the UK is currently in debt by slightly more than this thanks to our wonderful governments & banks

JIMMY, MANCHESTER ENGLAND

When it comes to things that really don't matter, such as how many zeroes equal this or that, then I have to admit, you Brits got us beat. But when you're buying airline tickets to visit a loved one, or turning on your PC or your Mac, just remember which country had the knowledge and wisdom to invent these two little trivial things.

Nick Kon, Dallas, US

This does not simplify international communication as the Commonwealth traditionally uses the 1 million million and accepted, governmentally, the US billion i.e. 1000 millions. Why don't they accept what the majority use? At least other countries are not sheep to the USA.

Philip, Manchester England

It's only 3 zeros you may think so what has changed and what is the consequence. By taking away 3 Zeros you change the universe you inflate it from 0.0137 Billion Years old to a massive 13.7 Billion years. We now have a false impression of Time and space it is difficult to comprehend how big space is but saying in is 0.0137 billion light years it gives us a smaller perspective. You reduce the number of galaxies and stars in a gallaxy. There is now more room for planets to fit in to comprehension if only wee have 3 more Zeros. It makes a beginning more distant and allows heaven to exist.

Shannon, Fareham England

Having read a few comments I find it ridiculous that one cannot agree on uniformity. Make it real so people understand. If it were a loan of 100,000 then a zero makes a difference. If a project or tender is worth 3bn then a dispute over a zero is a big thing. Disagreement makes a mockery of money. The message is money is not real so who cares? Just print more money.

tony, letchworth hertfordshire

Seriously, it was done to annoy the British and I must say, I find it very satisfying to see it working so splendidly.

Dennis K, Richmond, US

Looking at all the responses it reminds me of how many arguments begin from the lack of a common base of understanding (or differences between definitions such as 'truth', which differ widely between countries and/or politics). Fortunately, in this case, we have a common base which we can all agree on (or hope to), that we can all use powers of 10 to come to a mutual agreement on what we are measuring. As long as we have this common metric, we can at least understand each other.

Lloyd Stearns, Georgetown, US

As my wife just said to me,
"it's in the name". As usual she is right, BIllion, TRIllion... Enough said. The american "billion" makes no sense or logic.

xavi, portsmouth sweden

The differences in naming numbers cause constant problems. When British citizens tries to withdraw a decillion dollars from banks in America, they'll find American tellers hand over a mere thousand quintillion, and if you want the full amount, you'll have to ask for a "novemdecillion" dollars. Well, in my day, a novemdecillion was an honest milliard sensibly raised to the power 12 and multiplied by the traditional million. These new American numbers are incomprehensible gibberish.