I could be missing something but I really don't understand this thread? Ninja is undoubtedly talented but over the years I've heard him utter some of the most vile and violent lyrics on record, dubplate and live of almost any JA artist. I don't understand why some of the other contributors who obviously know "conscious" music are bigging him up? I think that lyrics which promote violence have added to the culture and attitude of violence in JA and in the wider diaspora which results in people being injured and killed often for no real reason.

Can no one else see this?

It's hard to explain, but bear with me for a second;

1. I dont like guns, drugs, booze and dont use any of those2. I tolerate other lifestyles which are not similar to my rather conservative and bourgeois3. I dont like the gang mentality, the ghetto mentality and the rude boy attitude

Having said that, I love Ninjaman, even his songs promoting guns, murder, drugs, bigotry and ghetto thuggery. I love his delivery, voice, lookListening to his lyrics is like doing a forbidden activity, there is some thrill to it. Even though in real life, he has seriously fcked up, (and I am aware what I'm going to say is not righteous), I disregard this and mentally separate the artist from the person behind the artist (and again I am aware that in this particular case, this approach does not work): in a way, I separate the actor from the actor's role.there is also a dash of voyeurism, just like some other people follow celebrities rise and fall...

Some people practise what they preach,others just don't. It works any which way, be it positive or negative.Whatever people may think of Ninja, he is a true originator as far as vocal style is concerned. As for the rest, well, there has always been a number of wolves in sheep's clothing or bandwaggonists that not everybody is aware of.At least, with Ninja, it's clearcut, he says what he says loud & clear! Not to mention that he also recorded some sensible tunes, lest we forget.

flashman wrote:Also, did anyone ever try to copy that stuttering stream of consciousness style he had? I can't think of anyone. There was Ninja Ford but he never really touched that style as far as I remember. I think it's because it was so unique and original. No one really could do it. Normally new styles get copied all the time. It's always been like that from U Roy on. But Ninjaman remains the only one that can pull off that spontaneous halting rambling chat style.

Brigadier Jerry used to have a similar stuttering / talking style from back in the 80's. Briggy doesn't get mentioned much on this board but he's a true originator who doesn't leave his roots and culture and along with Daddy Roy, is one of the most respected DJs amongst other DJs. Of course Briggy's style was influenced by U Roy to some extent.

Interesting to see Brigadier Jerry mentioned. I’m sure his reputation on sound systems was fully justified, and that he exerted the great influence on other deejays he was meant to have done, but I can only think of the following records that are worthwhile, with perhaps just “Pain” and “Conscious Time” qualifying as classics. It would be great if others could enlighten me about other tunes by him that are worth seeking out.

Yes Peter, Briggy is more of a live / sound system DJ with legendary performances on Jah Love Muzic, Sturgav and Downbeat in the States.You've listed some great tracks there but a few others are:- Every Man A Me Brethren (Studio 1 version)- Free Mandella- Fredlocks A Dreadlocks (DJ piece to Fredlock's Love & Harmony)- Armagiddeon Style:

this perceived separation between "conscious" and "slackness" or "dancehall" does not flippin exist in jamaica really and truly. at your typical yard dance you will have segments. you will have soul &rnb / maybe a disco segment / a corny american ballad segment / an old school segment/ a conscious segment / a jiggy segment. there is not this separation between music and crowds. there is a small, largely uptown, group of young people that keeps themselves insular and 'strictly roots' but that is about 50 flippin people. the rest of jamaica listens to everything - even

ninjaman is a legend on the island and a huge talent. "conscious" and "dancehall" artists alike recognize his talent and accomplishments. isn't he a good bredrin of sizzla anyway???

go to jamaica and spend some time, and this "conscious" vs. "dancehall" misconception will quickly leave your brain.

ninja is one of the greatest talents in reggae and is recognized as such. no matter what type of lyrics he was delivering, he always did it in amazing style.

Leo5 wrote:this perceived separation between "conscious" and "slackness" or "dancehall" does not flippin exist in jamaica really and truly. at your typical yard dance you will have segments. you will have soul &rnb / maybe a disco segment / a corny american ballad segment / an old school segment/ a conscious segment / a jiggy segment. there is not this separation between music and crowds. there is a small, largely uptown, group of young people that keeps themselves insular and 'strictly roots' but that is about 50 flippin people. the rest of jamaica listens to everything - even

ninjaman is a legend on the island and a huge talent. "conscious" and "dancehall" artists alike recognize his talent and accomplishments. isn't he a good bredrin of sizzla anyway???

go to jamaica and spend some time, and this "conscious" vs. "dancehall" misconception will quickly leave your brain.

ninja is one of the greatest talents in reggae and is recognized as such. no matter what type of lyrics he was delivering, he always did it in amazing style.

I have been to several, dances, clubs, bars and stage shows in JA and yes, it's true that many of them will play a whole range of music. However, it's not true to say that all of them will play some of the more 'colourful' tunes. It's not always a case of 'anything' goes in JA. Many Jamaicans are appalled by slackness and violent lyrics. I concede that it could be an age, a class or a religious thing but many young Jamaicans would be ashamed by some of Ninjaman's antics because it reflects badly on their country and on them.

flashman wrote:Also, did anyone ever try to copy that stuttering stream of consciousness style he had? I can't think of anyone. There was Ninja Ford but he never really touched that style as far as I remember. I think it's because it was so unique and original. No one really could do it. Normally new styles get copied all the time. It's always been like that from U Roy on. But Ninjaman remains the only one that can pull off that spontaneous halting rambling chat style.

Brigadier Jerry used to have a similar stuttering / talking style from back in the 80's. Briggy doesn't get mentioned much on this board but he's a true originator who doesn't leave his roots and culture and along with Daddy Roy, is one of the most respected DJs amongst other DJs. Of course Briggy's style was influenced by U Roy to some extent.

Mad Cobra is the one who came closest - not so much on the delivery, but his tone, voice and content were almost identical for the first few years of his career.

RE Ninja and 'vile' lyrics. sure, we all know he walked the walk, but lyrically, his gun talk was so fantastically over the top (and quite often hilarious) that it was basically cartoon territory.

Leo5 wrote:this perceived separation between "conscious" and "slackness" or "dancehall" does not flippin exist in jamaica really and truly. at your typical yard dance you will have segments. you will have soul &rnb / maybe a disco segment / a corny american ballad segment / an old school segment/ a conscious segment / a jiggy segment. there is not this separation between music and crowds. there is a small, largely uptown, group of young people that keeps themselves insular and 'strictly roots' but that is about 50 flippin people. the rest of jamaica listens to everything - even

ninjaman is a legend on the island and a huge talent. "conscious" and "dancehall" artists alike recognize his talent and accomplishments. isn't he a good bredrin of sizzla anyway???

go to jamaica and spend some time, and this "conscious" vs. "dancehall" misconception will quickly leave your brain.

ninja is one of the greatest talents in reggae and is recognized as such. no matter what type of lyrics he was delivering, he always did it in amazing style.