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Topic: swarm shape - queen right? (Read 1758 times)

With mellifera, can you tell if a queen is in the swarm by the looks of the clump? With cerana, if the swarm is roughly symmetrical in shape and teardrop in appearance, you have a queen. If there is no queen, the swarm will be oddly shaped, possibly elongated, or with ribs, etc. Does swarm shape tell you anything about a mellifera swarm?

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Paul

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With mellifera, can you tell if a queen is in the swarm by the looks of the clump? With cerana, if the swarm is roughly symmetrical in shape and teardrop in appearance, you have a queen. If there is no queen, the swarm will be oddly shaped, possibly elongated, or with ribs, etc. Does swarm shape tell you anything about a mellifera swarm?

Why would they swarm without a queen? To reduce the population of the parent hive by commiting mass suicide?

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"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

i don't know that i have ever found one without a queen, but i sure have found them with virgin queens, and they don't always make it. i have found that those swarms with virgins have a much higher number of drones with them.

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Cerana frequently abscond without the queen. If the queen died and wax moths took over - they abscond and gather into what may look like a swarm, but an ill-shapen one and of no value. If I upset them thru inspection or harvesting they may swarm (with the queen, along with nurse bees staying behind) - but the clump will be ill-shapen. However, if it is nicely shaped - I must try to recapture them, since it contains the queen. If ill-shapen, I don't bother.

The question.... with mellifera can you tell anything about the queen from the appearance of the swarm?

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Paul

“I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson

It sounds to me like two different behavior patterns from two different races of bee. As far as I know millifeera will not swarm/abscond because they are queenless. They will abscond if conditions are poor, but I dont think they will without a queen. A hive does sound different when queen-less though.

Maybe someone else knows different.

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How do you house your bees? Do you use langstroth or similar hives or something completely different.

I am using Langs for the mellifera - but upright boxes (known as AYs) for the cerana. The AY is like a Lang brood box stood on its side - that is, tall and narrow, ten frame.

I have not yet encountered a mellifera swarm - hence my questions, as I was basing it against my experience with cerana. I think as bee-nuts said - two different behaviour patters. Hence I am unlikely to encounter a queenless mellifera swarm (but do so regularly with cerana).

Logged

Paul

“I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson