I've been working on a computer simulation of atomic systems, based on my new "quaternion" approach to Larson's "units of motion," and an interesting correlation came up--that of my atomic model and that of the Prometheus dream series I've been having lately, regarding the "hollow earth." So, I'm going to describe some of the things I've found, and I am hoping some folks here can contribute some additional research, so we can develop a hollow planet/sun theory that covers all the existing theories as subset.

In the atomic system, I found that Larson's A-B-C notation of a 2D magnetic (A-B) rotation coupled to a 1D electric (C) rotation is incomplete. It is actually more (A-B)--(C-D), which is perfectly symmetric in structure--something one would expect with the reciprocal relation between space and time. The C electric rotation is replaced by a "cosmic magnetism," but since only the net magnitude of cosmic influence can be measured in the material system, we see it as a simple, linear electric field, instead.

I applied the same logic to the structure of the Earth, using the CMB (Core-Mantle Boundary) as the dividing line between material motion in space and cosmic motion in time. (The same would be applicable for the sun, probably at the boundary between the convection and radiative zones.) What this means is that the structure above the CMB, the mantle, asthenosphere, crust, hydrosphere and atmosphere will be "mirrored" on the other side of the CMB. But rather than compressing downward into a point, the transition from motion in space to motion in time would cause geometric inversion--it would expand outward to a sphere, forming the surface of a planet in 3D time.

The structure I saw in my Prometheus dreams shows a 4-layer organization, which is curiously similar to Edmund Halley's model to explain the geomagnetic fields and anomalies of the Earth:

Given the "bad rep" of Hades by the major religions, I can understand why Lloyd changed the name to the "reverse of beauty" (Aphrodite) to conceal an inconvenient truth--Hades may actually be the reverse of what we've been told... quite the paradise. Consider what Milton says in Paradise Lost, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Mankind's current "push" is towards sovereignty--breaking free from slavery. A servant is a voluntary slave. If you want lots of slave volunteers and really don't have a lot to offer except "praising god," the only option the religious recruitment propaganda has is to make the other place inhospitable... not that our world and religious leaders would LIE, would they?

Tartarus is the interesting one, as far below Hades as Heaven is above the Earth. That seems about right. It is documented as a prison, currently incarcerating the Titans and Cyclopes. If you consider the structure documented in the list above, Tartarus is on the other side of the unit speed boundary--the speed of light. It is impossible for material atoms to exist in the cosmic sector because of the reciprocal relation between space and time--the atomic rotations convert to linear status and explode in a burst of radiation, should they cross the boundary. It makes for quite the "prison bars" of a cell.

So the question I have with Tartarus regards the "demons" within... life is composed of life units, a stable combination of material and cosmic atoms. In other words, we've got our bodies in 3D space and our souls in 3D time--we exist concurrently in the inner and outer regions. If you break the linkage between these two halves of the life unit, it ceases to be life and reverts to inanimate status.

Here's the problem: a soul can exist in Tartarus, but a body cannot. But in order to retain life, a body and soul must be connected. The souls of the Titans are trapped in Tartarus--so where's the body? The only place a body can exist would be this side of the CMB, but if they have a body then they can manipulate the spatial world about us--and I don't see many giants still roaming the Earth.

So switch on your Reciprocal System and Mythological knowledge, and tell me how the Annuna managed to pull this off...??? I'm stumped.

LoneBear wrote:I've been working on a computer simulation of atomic systems, based on my new "quaternion" approach to Larson's "units of motion," and an interesting correlation came up--that of my atomic model and that of the Prometheus dream series I've been having lately, regarding the "hollow earth." So, I'm going to describe some of the things I've found, and I am hoping some folks here can contribute some additional research, so we can develop a hollow planet/sun theory that covers all the existing theories as subset.

I'll have a go... further reading is required first.

LoneBear wrote:In the atomic system, I found that Larson's A-B-C notation of a 2D magnetic (A-B) rotation coupled to a 1D electric (C) rotation is incomplete. It is actually more (A-B)--(C-D), which is perfectly symmetric in structure--something one would expect with the reciprocal relation between space and time. The C electric rotation is replaced by a "cosmic magnetism," but since only the net magnitude of cosmic influence can be measured in the material system, we see it as a simple, linear electric field, instead.

That makes a lot of sense and brings balance, it also reminds me of the Flammarion image with the cosmic magnetism seen through the veil in linear form, from our material viewpoint.

LoneBear wrote:I applied the same logic to the structure of the Earth, using the CMB (Core-Mantle Boundary) as the dividing line between material motion in space and cosmic motion in time. (The same would be applicable for the sun, probably at the boundary between the convection and radiative zones.) What this means is that the structure above the CMB, the mantle, asthenosphere, crust, hydrosphere and atmosphere will be "mirrored" on the other side of the CMB. But rather than compressing downward into a point, the transition from motion in space to motion in time would cause geometric inversion--it would expand outward to a sphere, forming the surface of a planet in 3D time.

"What it needs in order to evolve... is a human quality. Our capacity to leap beyond logic."

Given the "bad rep" of Hades by the major religions, I can understand why Lloyd changed the name to the "reverse of beauty" (Aphrodite) to conceal an inconvenient truth--Hades may actually be the reverse of what we've been told... quite the paradise. Consider what Milton says in Paradise Lost, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Mankind's current "push" is towards sovereignty--breaking free from slavery. A servant is a voluntary slave. If you want lots of slave volunteers and really don't have a lot to offer except "praising god," the only option the religious recruitment propaganda has is to make the other place inhospitable... not that our world and religious leaders would LIE, would they?

Tartarus is the interesting one, as far below Hades as Heaven is above the Earth. That seems about right. It is documented as a prison, currently incarcerating the Titans and Cyclopes. If you consider the structure documented in the list above, Tartarus is on the other side of the unit speed boundary--the speed of light. It is impossible for material atoms to exist in the cosmic sector because of the reciprocal relation between space and time--the atomic rotations convert to linear status and explode in a burst of radiation, should they cross the boundary. It makes for quite the "prison bars" of a cell.

So the question I have with Tartarus regards the "demons" within... life is composed of life units, a stable combination of material and cosmic atoms. In other words, we've got our bodies in 3D space and our souls in 3D time--we exist concurrently in the inner and outer regions. If you break the linkage between these two halves of the life unit, it ceases to be life and reverts to inanimate status.

Here's the problem: a soul can exist in Tartarus, but a body cannot. But in order to retain life, a body and soul must be connected. The souls of the Titans are trapped in Tartarus--so where's the body? The only place a body can exist would be this side of the CMB, but if they have a body then they can manipulate the spatial world about us--and I don't see many giants still roaming the Earth.

So switch on your Reciprocal System and Mythological knowledge, and tell me how the Annuna managed to pull this off...??? I'm stumped.

Fascinating and a most intriguing problem.... I have a copy of the Theogony and many other Greek works along with a couple of ideas that I want to pursue to see if I can help. My initial instinct points to stories of Titan's being trapped in mountains or volcanoes like Typhos:

The inveterate enemy of the Olympian gods is described in detail by Hesiod[6] as a vast grisly monster with a hundred serpent heads "with dark flickering tongues" flashing fire from their eyes and a din of voices and a hundred serpents for legs, a feature shared by many primal monsters of Greek myth that extend in serpentine or scaly coils from the waist down. The titanic struggle created earthquakes and tsunami.[7] Once conquered by Zeus' thunderbolts, Typhon was either cast into Tartarus, the common destiny of many such archaic adversaries, or confined beneath Mount Etna (Pindar, Pythian Ode 1.19–20; Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound 370), where "his bed scratches and goads the whole length of his back stretched out against it", or in other volcanic regions, where he is the cause of eruptions. Typhon is thus the chthonic figuration of volcanic forces, as Hephaestus (Roman Vulcan) is their "civilized" Olympian manifestation.

Or, the bodies may have been trapped (by some form of "magic" or turned to stone) in the megalithic monuments, maybe in both the mountains and megaliths... I'll let you know what else I find...

Jones: [looks at Sallah] You said their headpiece only had markings on one side, are you absolutely sure? [Sallah nods] Belloq's staff is too long.Jones and Sallah: They're digging in the wrong place!

Recursive wrote:LB, would you be open to posting the code somewhere. Maybe someplace like github.com? I know there are other programmers here who might be interested and can help. (like me )

I could do that, once I've got something worth posting. For me, programming is like an art, not a science. You know how a musician can sit down at a piano and start tinkling the keys, looking for a song? That's what I do with programming... I try out ideas to see how they work, so I'm not proceeding from any kind of formal document. I just junked all my code from a week ago and am starting from a slightly different premise, because of what I found fiddling around with a 4-vector system that could be used as a quaternion or homogeneous coordinate, depending on interpretation. So right now, all I've got are 2 classes (Java) and a main program to create a few objects, so I can look at the structures. Though it looks promising.

I normally use PHP because I know it inside-out and can code really quickly, but I'm getting closer to a formal definition for the RS/RS2 stuff, so I decided on Java/OpenGL primarily because it is strong-typed, object-oriented and machine/OS independent. Initially, I want to code to match the concept, rather than performance. So many people program these days, I think it that association would be beneficial because formal program code doesn't skip over any steps--and Larson does a LOT of that in his books.

I was looking at the symmetry between the surface world and underworld, as compared to their temporal equivalents that one would find at the core of the planet, and started thinking about the Norse world tree, Yggdrasil, which indicates "as above, so below" with the concept of branches above and roots below. A lot of religions and culture have some analog to the world tree, so I started poking around as I often do, and while digging up the etymology of "Yggdrasil," noticed that it does not mean "ash tree"... dictionary.com had the following to say:

Old Norse (probably meaning: Uggr's horse), from Uggr a name of Odin, from yggr, uggr frightful + drasill horse, of obscure origin

What I was expecting was that the "ygg" part meant "ash" and "drasil" would be tree... and it's actually, "frightful horse?" (and my screen background just turned into a big tree... the Universe playing with me again). So I got curious how a frightful horse turned into a "world ash tree." Still don't have the answer, but the journey was interesting...

Turns out that many of these world tree symbols are memory theaters, like the Greek orators used in days past. The branches and roots are almost like the neurons connecting in your brain, which resemble trees with dendrite branches and axon trunk/roots. So I started looking at the tree as connective pathways--a horse running around between locations, leaving trails.

A lot of the ancient records refer to Heaven as being in the north, typically above the north pole. Consider, if you were out to colonize a new world and came into the system in your lunar Ark (like the Titans did here) and found a good planet worth colonizing, where would you park? The Ark works via ultra-high speed motion (antigravity), so you don't need any kind of orbital velocity to maintain a fixed location above a planet. But the planet in question happens to have a large magnetic field, trapping lots and lots of charged particles that would be extraordinarily dangerous to keep on crossing with your shuttles heading down to the planet with men and material. IMHO, the best parking place would be right over one of the poles, where there is a hole in the magnetic torus (the Van Allen belts) that craft could easily fly into and across the surface with no exposure to all the radiation trapped in the belts, discharging in the atmosphere as the aurora.

So you pull up and park right over the North Pole and start a geological survey. Since your view of the planet is down from the top, it might make sense to make a circular map by "unfolding" the sphere into a flat disc, so you could see all the land and water areas, all the way down to the other pole, much like this:

Then it's easy to divvy up the world and assign various continents to your kids to manage, with enough ocean between them to keep the bickering down.

Over the course of the years, you engineer some slaves to do all the grunt work and they develop into a pseudo-society, and some of these survey maps fall into their hands. Not having the interstellar knowledge that the Spaceship Ark dwellers have, they might just interpret it as an accurate view of their world...

Flat Earth Map

And you now have the Flat Earth society, which MUST be correct, since it was obtained directly from the Gods!

Also, being parked right over the North Pole would give you easy access to both the surface world, particularly the northern hemisphere where the majority of the land mass is, so you can fly straight down through the magnetic opening and across to any point on the surface in minimum time, but you're also parked right over the north polar opening that leads to the Underworld--and can send some of your more rebellious kids down there to do some mining. Heck, it's just a few hundred miles further down and just as easy to access. That's a premium parking space!

Now if you start digging around into the translation and etymology of the words used in these old texts, it doesn't take long before you discover that the meaning of "north" is closer to "upper" and "south" is "lower" -- not necessarily referring to the magnetic poles--it could just as easily refer to the "upper world" of the surface and the "under world" of the Underworld. And it actually makes more sense in that latter context.

The Norse 9-world structure is actually pretty good, because it shows the symmetry between upper and lower realms.

The roots and branches of Yggdrasil show how these realms are connected ("realm" is actually a better translation than "world").

Now look at the polar map above, but suck out a lot of the water because back then the oceans were much smaller and the continents closer together. Australia is shown connected to Antarctica on the old maps, so that disappears, and the Americas were basically a single continent. The original colony was in the "paradise" zone of Sumer in Eurasia, so that would be Midgard, the center of the colonization.

Jotunheim is the realm of the frost giants that lived in an icy, mountainous region--Antarctica--with their strongold in Utgard, the Australian peninsula.

Vanaheim, the realm of the native "earth gods" would be the Greek version of Atlantis, the Americas.

Niflheim means "cold dark mists" and considered the route to the Underworld, so that would be the Bargos Islands at the North Pole.

Muspelheim, the realm of fire, is in the "south" which means "under" -- the "central sun" of the hollow earth, as Muspel is often considered to also be in the deepest layer of Hel, similar to the Greek Tartarus. Hel would be the inner surface of the planet, the Greek Hades or Etidorhpa from the book of the same name.

That leaves the realms of the Alfar, often translated as "Elves" but allegorically more as "angels" (light-elves, Ljosalfar) or "demons" (dark-elves, Svartalfar). Digging in to Svartalfheim, it's the realm of the dwarves--the cave dwellers in the region between the outer and inner surfaces of the world. Conversely, Ljosalfar are the "sky spirits" that fly around in the sky like angels--probably orbital ships and shuttlecraft that are transferring food and resources from the planet to the Ark over the North Pole--Asgard--the home of the Gods.

Anyway, just some thoughts from a wandering mind trying to find out why a frightful horse turned in to an ash tree.

I was having some trouble getting to sleep tonight and the thought occurred to me that if Útgarðar, the stronghold of the Jötnar (giants), was in Australia, then one would expect to find some megalithic ruins there. I had not heard of any, but a quick search turned up a site dedicated to Australian megaliths: http://www.rexgilroy.com/, the builders of which were known as the Uru. Curiously, Útgarðar means "out yards" or as we would say in American English, the fenced-in yard "out back" -- the giant Uru in the Outback and the Útgarðar in the Outyards... coincidence?

So if there are giants down under, is there any record of them?

‘Inhabited by a race of formidable giants' wrote:The final reason, which has been omitted from the historiography, is the most important because it both explains why the fishing expedition failed and gives rise to the first two reasons outlined: the indigenous group that the erstwhile fishermen encountered at Shark Bay were not recognised as Aboriginal men as the scholarship states, but were instead believed to be a ‘race of formidable giants'. I am intrigued by the fact that the possibility that a remnant race of giants existed in the Great South Land was entertained as late as 1803, and by the fact that no historian has considered this worthy of exploration.

LoneBear wrote:I was having some trouble getting to sleep tonight and the thought occurred to me that if Útgarðar, the stronghold of the Jötnar (giants), was in Australia, then one would expect to find some megalithic ruins there. I had not heard of any, but a quick search turned up a site dedicated to Australian megaliths: http://www.rexgilroy.com/, the builders of which were known as the Uru. Curiously, Útgarðar means "out yards" or as we would say in American English, the fenced-in yard "out back" -- the giant Uru in the Outback and the Útgarðar in the Outyards... coincidence?

So if there are giants down under, is there any record of them?

‘Inhabited by a race of formidable giants' wrote:The final reason, which has been omitted from the historiography, is the most important because it both explains why the fishing expedition failed and gives rise to the first two reasons outlined: the indigenous group that the erstwhile fishermen encountered at Shark Bay were not recognised as Aboriginal men as the scholarship states, but were instead believed to be a ‘race of formidable giants'. I am intrigued by the fact that the possibility that a remnant race of giants existed in the Great South Land was entertained as late as 1803, and by the fact that no historian has considered this worthy of exploration.

To quote Mr. Spock, "Fascinating."

Excellent work LB, did you see this photo from elsewhere on Mysterious Australia?

That doesn't look like your classic homonid giant footprint! Compare to a well known Dinosaur... (or God/Giant):

That is a great connection you have made with the maps and explains the top down view of the earlier ones like the Marcator. The Rare Maps website has a lot of other good ones that are fun to look through. I've been saving a collection for later reference.

Jones: [looks at Sallah] You said their headpiece only had markings on one side, are you absolutely sure? [Sallah nods] Belloq's staff is too long.Jones and Sallah: They're digging in the wrong place!

I was looking at the symmetry between the surface world and underworld, as compared to their temporal equivalents that one would find at the core of the planet, and started thinking about the Norse world tree, Yggdrasil, which indicates "as above, so below" with the concept of branches above and roots below. A lot of religions and culture have some analog to the world tree, so I started poking around as I often do, and while digging up the etymology of "Yggdrasil," noticed that it does not mean "ash tree"... dictionary.com had the following to say:

Old Norse (probably meaning: Uggr's horse), from Uggr a name of Odin, from yggr, uggr frightful + drasill horse, of obscure origin

What I was expecting was that the "ygg" part meant "ash" and "drasil" would be tree... and it's actually, "frightful horse?" (and my screen background just turned into a big tree... the Universe playing with me again). So I got curious how a frightful horse turned into a "world ash tree." Still don't have the answer, but the journey was interesting...

Yggdrasil is generally accepted as "Odin's Horse." This may have some reference to the "horse of the hanged" referring to when Odin hung himself on the tree for 9 days and learned the runes. This may refer to him experiencing and understanding the 9 worlds. I think that the original understanding was much more scientific and enabled Odin movement to any of the 9 realms or worlds. Note that Odin also has a horse called Slepnir which has 8 legs (perhaps a single resting place, perhaps Midgard, and then passage to each of the other 8 ). The tree-view of Yggdrasil may be more structurally-oriented rather than movement-oriented (or motion-oriented) like the RS theory.

LoneBear wrote:And you now have the Flat Earth society, which MUST be correct, since it was obtained directly from the Gods!

LOL! And it must also contain permission to take down anyone who says otherwise. More seriously, it also makes Jörmungandr (Midgard Serpent) easily seen. It could refer to the Van Allen Belt or perhaps to the natural magnetic field of the Earth (or maybe both together). They do protect the Earth. Ragnarok may partly refer to some major changes which would affect this. In the mythology, Thor takes on and defeats Jormungandr at the end of the age (he dies as well).

LoneBear wrote:Now if you start digging around into the translation and etymology of the words used in these old texts, it doesn't take long before you discover that the meaning of "north" is closer to "upper" and "south" is "lower" -- not necessarily referring to the magnetic poles--it could just as easily refer to the "upper world" of the surface and the "under world" of the Underworld. And it actually makes more sense in that latter context.

This makes sense as long as the visitors were above the North Pole when they were around. A number of cultural things like why our maps always show north at the top or above the rest of the world (for a different perspective, see http://upside-down-maps.com/about.html). "The northern countries look down upon the world." I think there is quite a lot of psychological stuff that could be said around this observation including around how things are in the world today.

Arcelius wrote:Yggdrasil is generally accepted as "Odin's Horse." This may have some reference to the "horse of the hanged" referring to when Odin hung himself on the tree for 9 days and learned the runes. This may refer to him experiencing and understanding the 9 worlds. I think that the original understanding was much more scientific and enabled Odin movement to any of the 9 realms or worlds. Note that Odin also has a horse called Slepnir which has 8 legs (perhaps a single resting place, perhaps Midgard, and then passage to each of the other 8 ). The tree-view of Yggdrasil may be more structurally-oriented rather than movement-oriented (or motion-oriented) like the RS theory.

I've always been fascinated by the etymology of words and phrases, which is what caught my attention. It seems incongruous indicating that there is a missing connection between the frightful horse and the ash tree. I looked up the ash tree and one of the primary identifying characteristics is that the branches are compound--they tend to be mirror images, one on each side, a natural duality of opposites. Horses with a duality are the Chariot Tarot trump, where the chariot is pulled by black and white horses (yin-yang). But the Norsemen did not use the Tarot, so I'm still looking for something analogous in the mythos.

I think the Odin connection was because of the term "frightful." Odin (Enlil) was the military general of the AEsir, the warrior gods, and the most feared amongst them. But it's not a "fearful horse" -- it's a "frightful" one, which is a different concept. To the average man, an 8-legged horse would look strange, but probably not frightful. I had considered the 8 legs to be a dichotomy of 4+4 (paired sides, like the ash) where one set could be roots and the other branches, but an 8-legged, spread-eagle horse does not really envision a tree--more of a spider.

It's snowing this morning and I'm looking outside at the apple orchard with the branches lightly covered in snow, creating a nice contrast to the bark, trying to see them as a "world tree" and what it could mean. As any farmer (like myself) knows, the root below mimic the branches above and you're looking at something like a bioenergy "heat sink" that operates reciprocally. Water and nutrients are brought up from the roots and exhaled into the environment through the leaves; the leaves take in air and sunlight to feed the roots. Seems to be some kind of material-cosmic energy exchanger. The Earth, when considered as a living entity, would have similar properties, which might explain the tree symbolism. So you would have both structure and flow in the symbol.

Arcelius wrote:LOL! And it must also contain permission to take down anyone who says otherwise. More seriously, it also makes Jörmungandr (Midgard Serpent) easily seen. It could refer to the Van Allen Belt or perhaps to the natural magnetic field of the Earth (or maybe both together). They do protect the Earth. Ragnarok may partly refer to some major changes which would affect this. In the mythology, Thor takes on and defeats Jormungandr at the end of the age (he dies as well).

Glad you got my little joke there... makes me wonder what would have happened if Enki dropped an empty Coke bottle in the Garden of Edin, as Adam and Eve were leaving.

The best research I've seen regarding Jörmungandr is that the serpent is the Milky Way, observed from the northern latitudes where it can actually be seen circling the Earth during certain times of the year. Meteors were considered the fiery breath of the serpent, since that is where they appeared to come from.

As for Thor defeating the great Serpent god... I live in hope.

Arcelius wrote:This makes sense as long as the visitors were above the North Pole when they were around. A number of cultural things like why our maps always show north at the top or above the rest of the world (for a different perspective, see http://upside-down-maps.com/about.html). "The northern countries look down upon the world." I think there is quite a lot of psychological stuff that could be said around this observation including around how things are in the world today.

I did a bit research after watching "Thor The Dark World" movie, about some finnish Kalevala. So I did found that Einherjar, which in old norse means "single (or once) fighters" and in finnish "ainoat/valitut soturit". Here is the difference between english and finnish translations "ainoat" = the only ones (according to my undestanding of referencies) and "valitut" = the chosen ones, "soturit" = warriors or figthers, more to the warrior types, but the main difference is the same

So these Einherjar are the "slain souls" in Valhalla. In english Valhalla from old norse is translated to "hall of the slain", and in finnish the same is translated to "hall of the chosen". Now that is interesting. Although I have gotten this from wikipedia only, so I have no idea which one is more correct than the other, perhaps both.

I also found this picture about Helheim (Hel).

This http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginnungagap or "Mighty gap" or in finnish "ammottava kuilu" which translates about as "gaping abyss/chasm" so about the same meaning. In finnish version of wikipedias "Ginnungagap" it is said that: Ginnungagap is the emptiness in the beginning of the "world" (not specified as universe although might mean it as well), which separated Nilfheim and Muspelheim from each other. From the coldworld of Nilfheim water flowed to Ginnungagap that froze in there. In the fiery world of Muspelheim hot steam melted part of the ice and from melted water all life began and also the first living being Ice giant Ymir.

Now the above is the best translation from me that I can give so hope you can undestand it. This story seems to relate to the early part of the earth when it was in gravitational lock and didnt actually spin around its axis yet. The dark icy world in the darkside and the fiery side, also the middle part where life began with water and so on.

About Ymir what is said in english wikipedia is that it was "born of primordial elemental poison", and in finnish it is being "born in primeval chaos in Ginnungagap from melted clay" which is very different than elemental poison to me at least. From the melted clay there was born another being Auohumla which is primeval cow it as the same in finnish language also.

This picture is about "Kinahmi" http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinahmi
This Kinahmi is almost the same as Ginnungagap they both reside in far north. Actually Kinahmi might be much closer than Ginnungagap because the old map indicate it to be close to the northern shores of current Norway Lapland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lofoten
Kinahmi might actually be old reference to these focal points, where ships disappeared, since Maelstroms are referred in other places also. As Bermudas triangle is or has been maelstrom of sorts. It was also assumed that Kinahmi was a way to the "Tuonela" which is the "Underworld or world of the dead" etc.

In Kalevala, the hero Väinämöinen makes a trip to Tuonela and manages to escape back to the land of the living by transforming into a snake.

In the english version it is not said that "sometimes the dead was taken to east or west or they stayed home to protect their family members. From the afterlife the dead could come back as a "Luonto" or as guardian spirit. These "Luonnot" are also related to the Djinn or Jinn. From this mythological "Luonto" being originates the term nature and also the nature/personality of a human or that of animals as well. In etymology luonto-word is referenced to creation and birth.

According to Finnish mythology the personality of human is a spiritual being that follows the human and effects on his/her luck, personality and prosperity. Maybe this is how I undestand human nature because of DNA is its imprints. As many finnish people older ones especially have hate towards Swedish people because when Finland was still under Swedish kingdom and in war with current Russia the swedish didn't help in that war, only finnish people went to fight them russians back then. And I think this is coded into our DNA the hate/dislike towards Swedish people/Sweden. Or perhaps it is because of the "collective unconscious", which might be as likely. I didn't like to learn Swedish in my schooldays, but still was average at it nonetheless and thrived in English.

Like I said off topic a bit. There is also much more info about the mythologigal Luonto in wikipedia that I don't go into right now, too much to translate since there is no English version about it in there.

Ilkka wrote:There is also much more info about the mythologigal Luonto in wikipedia that I don't go into right now, too much to translate since there is no English version about it in there.

Love to hear more about the Luonto, when you get a chance.

Been going through "Hades" mythology, which is quite interesting when you compare the maps created by various cultures--they have essentially the same cartography for the underworld. Hades, Hell, Niflhel and the like all refer to the inner, concave realm inside the Earth, beneath the "Underworld" of caves, dwarfs and goblins. What is surprising is that in every culture I've looked at, people can WALK between the surface world and Hades, to discuss the release of souls from the realm of the dead, and still return to the realm of the living. And the way they are written is that there is nothing special about the journey; you just have to know the route. Done very commonplace, like "everybody knows you can visit Hell."

Gopi (whom is visiting) was showing me the Vedic version with Yama as a parallel to Saint Peter, whom decides whether you should enter Heaven or "go elsewhere." But the Vedas don't map Naraka, the realm of the dead. If anyone happens to know of a map of Naraka, I'd be interested in seeing it, to compare with others.

LoneBear wrote: What is surprising is that in every culture I've looked at, people can WALK between the surface world and Hades, to discuss the release of souls from the realm of the dead, and still return to the realm of the living. And the way they are written is that there is nothing special about the journey; you just have to know the route. Done very commonplace, like "everybody knows you can visit Hell."

It would answer a lot of questions. I guess the next time somebody tells me to "go to hell," I'll reply, "Love to! Got a map?"

I've been updating my model to use the new "quaternion unit of motion" approach that I've been developing with RS2. Larson has a tendency to look at things solely from the yang (linear) perspective and thinks in 1 dimension (hence the 0-1-infinity concept and the s/t--t/s dichotomy). The 4 units of the quaternion have a structure of yang-yin--yin-yang, as a reflective symmetry (like yang-yin looking in a mirror at itself).

The first unit of yang is the linear, outward progression. The second unit is a 1-dimensional rotation (electric); this pair is the "complex number" of real+imaginary, forming the first speed/energy relation that Larson likes to use--but starting with the progression as speed.

The third unit is also yin, but being on the other side of the mirror, is a 2-dimensional rotation (magnetic). The fourth unit is yang, being the inverse of progression--the linear, inward motion of gravity.

This gives the sequence speed/energy/energy/speed. And that's just the material side... for a "life unit," which I would include planets and suns, that would also occur on the cosmic side. The consequence would be we would "see" the classic hollow planet model, but there would also be an inner sphere (both on the material and cosmic sides), giving a structure that is virtually identical to Edmund Halley and John Simmes' models:

The interpretation would be a little different, because Halley was using a math model and not subject to the "material observer" principle, but the two, outer rings would be material and the inner ring and "core" would be cosmic.

The inner sphere on the material side may not be visible to human consciousness, as it would be in counterspace--not normal space. We tend to ignore objects that have negative dimensions.

I watched the following documentary - The Legend of Atlantis - for the first time five years ago and the part that impressed me the most was the last one - "The War of Armageddon". I couldn't believe when I heard that Admiral Byrd made an (heavily armed) expedition to Antarctica and that the Nazis also went there.

See from min 04:41:13 on.

The Movie Park wrote:Alien vs. Predator (2004)
The discovery [by a satellite] of an ancient pyramid buried under the Antarctic ice sends a team of scientists and adventures to the frozen continent.

"You talk the talk ... do you walk the walk?" Kubrick, Full Metal Jacket

Some instructions used by Nazi U-Boats to enter the inner world, translated from German:

Descend at the exact intersection of 68° southern latitude and 1° eastern longitude, to a depth of 400 meters.

Descent. From the point of descent at half speed, a starboard declination of 10° with a bow heaviness declination angle 5°. Distance 188 standard miles (sm), depth 500 meters. (Because of the moving inside the corridor the pressure on the ship body when maneuvering is insignificant.)

Proceed on the surface with the grotto with a starboard declination of 8°, distance 286 sm.

Schwieriges maneuver.

Descent. With a bow heaviness declination 45° to a depth of 240 meters, distance 60 sm. Afterwards with a port declination of 20° at which the descent to 310 meters to the entrance to the corridor continues. After the 310 meter mark the bow heaven descent needs to be continued. Descent angle 7° until 360 meters, distance 70 sm. Further starboard declination of 31° to a depth of 380 meters.

LoneBear wrote:Some instructions used by Nazi U-Boats to enter the inner world, translated from German:

Descend at the exact intersection of 68° southern latitude and 1° eastern longitude, to a depth of 400 meters.

Descent. From the point of descent at half speed, a starboard declination of 10° with a bow heaviness declination angle 5°. Distance 188 standard miles (sm), depth 500 meters. (Because of the moving inside the corridor the pressure on the ship body when maneuvering is insignificant.)

Proceed on the surface with the grotto with a starboard declination of 8°, distance 286 sm.

Schwieriges maneuver.

Descent. With a bow heaviness declination 45° to a depth of 240 meters, distance 60 sm. Afterwards with a port declination of 20° at which the descent to 310 meters to the entrance to the corridor continues. After the 310 meter mark the bow heaven descent needs to be continued. Descent angle 7° until 360 meters, distance 70 sm. Further starboard declination of 31° to a depth of 380 meters.

Proceed to Agartha. Full speed. Proceed straight ahead until the new light can be seen. Change of magnetic poles. The changes of the compass needle and instruments are to be disregarded.

This got me digging around and I found a few things..
First, I wanted to see where the initial point of maneuvering began, so I plotted the intersection of 68° southern latitude and 1° eastern longitude.

I was an engineer on a surface ship so I didn't receive any submariner navigation training, and my next step was to look up some of the terms I'm not familiar with. I have an idea of what something like 'heavy bow declination" might mean, but I wanted to be sure. While I didn't find an explanation, what I did find is worthy of sharing. I'm going to see if I have any navy contacts that might be able to help me with understanding these navigation terms. I didn't know many sub volunteers, but maybe I can get patched through to the right person if I ask around. The top result the google machine found:

I would love to see this played out in 3d, but I'm not a programmer (although this holds potential for being something that pushes me to learn). I found a submarine simulation project sponsored by the UWA Mobile Robot Lab and Raytheon Australia that can be downloaded HERE. It requires knowledge of C/C++ or RoBIOS, of which I have none, was hoping that by passing this along, someone might be able to take this and do something with it.

"Living is not necessary, but navigation is." --Pompey
"Navigation is necessary in order to live." --Me

Ilkka wrote:There is also much more info about the mythologigal Luonto in wikipedia that I don't go into right now, too much to translate since there is no English version about it in there.

Love to hear more about the Luonto, when you get a chance.

The Guardian Angel from Christianity is slightly similar to Luonto. Luonto sometimes appear as a Doppelganger. Luonto might go ahead of human being as its "projection", with this they have explained Etiäinen
As I mentioned briefly that everyone has Luonto that follows and protects him/her and brings luck. Those who are strong spirited or personality as in those who have strong Luonto, have usually more success than the more weakly spirited ones.

This above was vaguely translated from wikipedia not in order and there is not much more info about Luonto in wikipedia. I would need to dig alot deeper, but I think this highlights the whole consept. There is however some books written about Finnish shamanism and mythology that would give more info maybe, but I dont think I am able to get my hands on such book in a while.

PS. there are a few "incantations" to summon Luonto if one is weakly spirited, but to fully comprehend the words and the meaning of them one must learn finnish and also the mythology etc. That would be so much work, since it is said that Finnish language is the most difficult to learn for foreinger, of course it is quite easy to natives to learn their language, all we do is imitate to learn speech anyways, and the understanding of the words comes later.

LoneBear wrote:The structure I saw in my Prometheus dreams shows a 4-layer organization, which is curiously similar to Edmund Halley's model to explain the geomagnetic fields and anomalies of the Earth:

Tartarus is the interesting one, as far below Hades as Heaven is above the Earth. That seems about right. It is documented as a prison, currently incarcerating the Titans and Cyclopes. If you consider the structure documented in the list above, Tartarus is on the other side of the unit speed boundary--the speed of light. It is impossible for material atoms to exist in the cosmic sector because of the reciprocal relation between space and time--the atomic rotations convert to linear status and explode in a burst of radiation, should they cross the boundary. It makes for quite the "prison bars" of a cell.

So the question I have with Tartarus regards the "demons" within... life is composed of life units, a stable combination of material and cosmic atoms. In other words, we've got our bodies in 3D space and our souls in 3D time--we exist concurrently in the inner and outer regions. If you break the linkage between these two halves of the life unit, it ceases to be life and reverts to inanimate status.

Here's the problem: a soul can exist in Tartarus, but a body cannot. But in order to retain life, a body and soul must be connected. The souls of the Titans are trapped in Tartarus--so where's the body? The only place a body can exist would be this side of the CMB, but if they have a body then they can manipulate the spatial world about us--and I don't see many giants still roaming the Earth.

So switch on your Reciprocal System and Mythological knowledge, and tell me how the Annuna managed to pull this off...??? I'm stumped.

I've been looking into this and decided to put your work into a few diagrams to see how it looked, first the basic one from your 4-layer organization:

You'll see the quote too about the distance and the anvils, I thought about this some more and realised I was incorrectly referring to Agartha as heaven, I think the folklore i've been reading influenced that with the links to the other realm and the afterlife. It occurred that "heaven" is the Annunaki ark in the Sky, fall for 9 days and hit the earth on the 10th, then fall from earth for 9 days and hit Tartarus on the 10th but then this model doesn't work if you take this into account:

"Homer and Hesiod also represent them as anti-gods, divinities residing in the pit of Tartaros, the cosmic inverse of heaven--for just as Heaven was imagined as a solid bronze dome rising above the earth, so Tartaros was a huge pit, or reverse dome, which enclosed the underworld. The home of the Titanes in the depths of the pit, was the cosmic opposite of the apex of heaven, the home of the Olympian gods."

So I decided to check Etidorhpa and re-do the model slightly but simplify it a bit. Here is the result along with some extra info added:

This still didn't seem right though, the flip round to be on the inside of the gravitational limit seems fine but in Etidorhpa after they have come to rest in the sphere of rest, they then need to use the mind to advance onwards (i'm assuming here the transition between material and temporal due to the inversion of using your body to move forwards) and when they do so it's onwards to Etidorhpa or the unknown country. Although it stops short there all indications are that Tartarus is then at the bottom of the cosmic realm.

So I tried again:

With this one i've taken into account the transition through the sphere of rest straight to the unknown country and inverted the "yin" realm including the colours and it looks better but the following clues still had me thinking "not quite"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus
In Greek mythology, Tartarus is both a deity and a place in the underworld. In ancient Orphic sources and in the mystery schools, Tartarus is also the unbounded first-existing entity from which the Light and the cosmos are born.

As for the place, Hesiod asserts that a bronze anvil falling from heaven would fall nine days before it reached the earth. The anvil would take nine more days to fall from earth to Tartarus.[4] In The Iliad (c. 700 BC), Zeus asserts that Tartarus is "as far beneath Hades as heaven is high above the earth."

Other gods could be sentenced to Tartarus as well. Apollo is a prime example, although Zeus freed him. The Hecatonchires became guards of Tartarus' prisoners. Later, when Zeus overcame the monster Typhon, the offspring of Tartarus and Gaia,[5] he threw him into "wide Tartarus"

King Sisyphus was sent to Tartarus for killing guests and travelers to his castle in violation to his hospitality, seducing his niece, and reporting one of Zeus' sexual conquests by telling the river god Asopus of the whereabouts of his daughter Aegina (who had been taken away by Zeus). But regardless of the impropriety of Zeus' frequent conquests, Sisyphus overstepped his bounds by considering himself a peer of the gods who could rightfully report their indiscretions. When Zeus ordered Thanatos to chain up Sisyphus in Tartarus, Sisyphus tricked Thanatos by asking him how the chains worked and ended up chaining Thanatos; as a result there was no more death. This caused Ares to free Thanatos and turn Sisyphus over to him. Sometime later, Sisyphus had Persephone send him back to the surface to scold his wife for not burying him properly. Sisyphus was forcefully dragged back to Tartarus by Hermes when he refused to go back to the Underworld after that. In Tartarus, Sisyphus would be forced to roll a large boulder up a mountainside which when he almost reached the crest, rolled away from Sisyphus and rolled back down repeatedly. This represented the punishment of Sisyphus claiming that his cleverness surpassed that of Zeus, causing the god to make the boulder roll away from Sisyphus, binding Sisyphus to an eternity of frustration.

Zeus drove Ixion from Mount Olympus and then struck him with a thunderbolt. He was punished by being tied to a winged flaming wheel that was always spinning: first in the sky and then in Tartarus. Only when Orpheus came down to the Underworld to rescue Eurydice did it stop spinning because of the music Orpheus was playing. Ixion being strapped to the flaming wheel represented his burning lust.

In the New Testament, the noun Tartarus does not occur but tartaroo (ταρταρόω, "throw to Tartarus"), a shortened form of the classical Greek verb kata-tartaroo ("throw down to Tartarus"), does appear in 2 Peter 2:4. Liddell Scott provides other sources for the shortened form of this verb, including Acusilaus (5th century BC), Joannes Laurentius Lydus (4th century AD) and the Scholiast on Aeschylus' Eumenides, who cites Pindar relating how the earth tried to tartaro "cast down" Apollo after he overcame the Python.[10] In classical texts, the longer form kata-tartaroo is often related to the throwing of the Titans down to Tartarus.[11]

Before I do the final version it hit me while reading Etidorhpa (Chapter XLIX) that I may have found the perfect prison for the bodies of the Titan's while they are incarcerated in Tartarus....

Chapter XLIX - Oscillating through space - Earth's shell above me

" We have just now crossed the line of gravitation. We were drawn downward until at a certain point, to which I called your attention at the time, we recently crossed the curved plane of perfect rest, where gravity ceases, and by our momentum are now passing beyond that plane, and are now pressing against the bond of gravitation again. This shell in which gravity centers is concentric with that of the earth's exterior, and is about seven hundred miles below its surface. Each moment of time will now behold us carried farther from this sphere of attraction, and thus the increasing distance increases the force, of the restraining influence. Our momentum is thus retarded, and consequently the rapidity of our motion is continually decreasing. At last when the forces of gravitation and mass motion neutralize each other, we will come to a state of rest again. When our motion in this direction ceases, however, gravitation, imperishable, continues to exert its equalizing influence, the result being a start in the opposite direction, and we will then reverse our course, and retrace our path, crossing again the central band of attraction, to retreat and fly to the opposite side of the power of greater attraction, into the expanse from which we came, and that is now above us."

" Can this oscillation ever end? Are we to remain thus, as an unceasing pendulum, traversing space, to and fro across this invisible shell of attraction from now until the end of time?"

And a little bit more:

CHAPTER L. MY WEIGHT ANNIHILATED.- " TELL ME," I CRIED IN ALARM," IS THIS TO BE A LIVING TOMB?"

" If you will reflect upon the condition we are now in, you will perceive that it must be one of unusual scientific interest. If you imagine a body at rest, in an intangible medium, and not in contact with a gas or any substance capable of creating friction, that body by the prevailing theory of matter and motion, unless disturbed by an impulse from without, would remain forever at absolute rest. We now occupy such a position. In whatever direction we may now be situated, it seems to us that we are upright. We are absolutely without weight, and in a perfectly frictionless medium. Should an inanimate body begin to revolve here, it would continue that motion forever. If our equilibrium should now be disturbed, and we should begin to move in a direction coinciding with the plane in which we are at rest, we would continue moving with the same rapidity in that direction until our course was arrested by some opposing object. We are not subject to attraction of matter, for at this place gravitation robs matter of its gravity, and has no influence on extraneous substances. We are now in the center of gravitation, the ‘Sphere of Rest.’"

" Let me think it out," I replied, and reasoning from his remarks, I mentally followed the chain to its sequence, and was startled as suddenly it dawned upon me that if his argument was true we must remain motionless in this spot until death ( could beings in conditions like ourselves die beyond the death we had already achieved ) or the end of time. We were at perfect rest, in absolute vacancy, there being, as I now accepted without reserve, neither gas, liquid, nor solid, that we could employ as a lever to start us into motion. " Tell me," I cried in alarm, " is this to be a living tomb? Are we to remain suspended here forever, and if not, by what method can we hope to extricate ourselves from this state of perfect quiescence?" He again took the bar of iron from my hand, and cautiously gave it a whirling motion, releasing it as he did so. It revolved silently and rapidly in space without support or pivot.

" So it would continue," he remarked, " until the end of time, were it not for the fact that I could not possibly release it in a condition of absolute horizontal rest. There is a slight, slow, lateral motion that will carry the object parallel with this sheet of energy to the material side of this crevice, when its motion will ‘ be arrested by the earth it strikes.’"

So... how easy would it be for one of the "gods" to set a body spinning in the sphere of rest/gravitational limit? I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult going by the apparent ease with which Titans are thrown into and subsequently freed from Tartarus.

Now, how they manage to keep the body revolving in the gravitational limit and then move the soul into Tartarus across the CMB is another thing.... any takers for that one?? Perhaps this is how they keep the body spinning for eternity:

Tartaros was secured with a surrounding wall of bronze set with a pair of gates, guarded by the hundred-handed Hekatonkheir giants, warders of the Titanes.

My last clues are from the theoi.com page on Hades:

http://www.theoi.com/Kosmos/Haides.html
Hesiod describes the realm of Haides in his Theogony. Here it lies at the end of the flat disc of the earth, beyond the river Okeanos and the land of evening. It is a cosmic meeting-place of the ways where the great sky dome descends to rest its edge upon the earth, and, from below, the walls of the Tartarean pit rise up to enclose the lower half of the cosmos. Haides and Tartaros are again quite distinct--Tartaros is the cosmic pit beneath the earth, whereas Haides is the land on the gloomy edges of the earth.

And from their other page on Tartarus quoting Plato:

http://www.theoi.com/Kosmos/Tartaros2.html
Plato, Phaedo 111c :
“[111c The hollows of the earth :]
Sokrates : Round about the whole earth, in the hollows of it, are many regions, some deeper and wider than that in which we live, some deeper but with a narrower opening than ours, and some also less in depth and wider. Now all these are connected with one another by many subterranean channels, some larger and some smaller, which are bored in all of them, and there are passages through which much water flows from one to another as into mixing bowls; and there are everlasting rivers of huge size under the earth, flowing with hot and cold water; and there is much fire, and great rivers of fire, and many streams of mud, some thinner and some thicker, like the rivers of mud that flow before the lava in Sikelia (Sicily), and the lava itself. These fill the various regions as they happen to flow to one or another at any time. Now a kind of oscillation within the earth moves all these up and down. And the nature of the oscillation is as follows.

[111d ff. Haides-Tartaros and the passage of water through the Underworld :]
One of the chasms of the earth is greater than the rest, and is bored right through the whole earth; this is the one which Homer means when he says : `Far off, the lowest abyss beneath the earth' ; and which elsewhere he and many other poets have called Tartaros. For all the rivers flow together into this chasm and flow out of it again, and they have each the nature of the earth through which they flow. And the reason why all the streams flow in and out here is that this liquid matter has no bottom or foundation. So it oscillates and waves up and down, and the air and wind about it do the same; for they follow the liquid both when it moves toward the other side of the earth and when it moves toward this side, and just as the breath of those who breathe blows in and out, so the wind there oscillates with the liquid and causes terrible and irresistible blasts as it rushes in and out. And when the water retires to the region which we call the lower, it flows into the rivers there and fills them up, as if it were pumped into them; and when it leaves that region and comes back to this side, it fills the rivers here; and when the streams are filled they flow through the passages and through the earth and come to the various places to which their different paths lead, where they make seas and marshes, and rivers and springs. Thence they go down again under the earth, some passing around many great regions and others around fewer and smaller places, and flow again into Tartaros, some much below the point where they were sucked out, and some only a little; but all flow in below their exit. Some flow in on the side from which they flowed out, others on the opposite side; and some pass completely around in a circle, coiling about the earth once or several times, like serpents, then descend to the lowest possible depth and fall again into the chasm. Now it is possible to go down from each side to the center, but not beyond, for there the slope rises forward in front of the streams from either side of the earth.

So my final model of the Hollow Earth, trying to combine Bruce's work with the mythology and descriptions of Tartarus, is as follows:

This keeps the 4 layer organisation but Earth retains the "dome of the sky" and "bottomless pit of Tartarus" as described and when you look at some of the other descriptions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_primordial_deities
The primordial gods are depicted as places or realms. A common example is Tartarus, who is depicted as the Underworld, Hell, and a bottomless abyss. His sibling, Erebus, is also depicted as a place of pitch-black darkness or a vast emptiness of space.

So putting all this together, I get the impression that Tartarus (and sibling Erebus) as actually describing a bottomless pit of space, but the temporal/inverted version, and the space weather in the form of serpents and rivers which reminds me of the Earth's magnetic field.

TARTARUS (Tartaros)
The Protogenos of the great stormy pit which lay beneath the roots of the earth. He was the anti-heaven: just as the dome of heaven arched high above the earth, Tartarus arched beneath her. The Titans were imprisoned in his depths.

I still get the feeling I may have missed or misinterpreted something... I think this confusion lies in the transition point as Etidorhpa seems to indicate the move into 2-x intermediate speed as being the gravitational limit which makes sense, but then what of the step up to 3-x and then through the unit speed boundary, isn't this the Sphere of rest transition?

And am I correct in inverting the inverse interior world of Tartarus or is that one inversion too many?

Jones: [looks at Sallah] You said their headpiece only had markings on one side, are you absolutely sure? [Sallah nods] Belloq's staff is too long.Jones and Sallah: They're digging in the wrong place!

Djchrismac wrote:And am I correct in inverting the inverse interior world of Tartarus or is that one inversion too many?

I have too wondered about the inverse world. Its nice to see it in visualisation like that. The last picture seems to have potential, however might be a bit too inversed, but looks good though. It reminds me about similar picture I've seen before but have now idea where, maybe some mythological image or pagan imagery.

Gopi has departed from his 3-week stay here and is now back in India. Needless to say, we did a lot of "catching up" over that time, and I have tons of new information to relate. Some of this regards a parallel between a new, atomic structure and the hollow planet theory--same model, but on an aggregate level.

The primary discrepancy between hollow Earth models comes from Edmund Haley (the comet guy) who created that 4-shell model whereas everyone else has a single, inner world with a central sun. Turns out that all these models are correct, if you understand the assumptions that went into them.

The single-shell hollow Earth models are based primarily on mythological trips to the region, so they are defined by a material sector observer. What that means is that any structure that has a net, temporal rotation to it will appear as a solid. This includes conventional atomic structure (since atoms are temporal rotations), as well as the speed ranges above unity, where things are moving in time, rather than space. Any structure to these temporal regions will appear to the material observer as bubbles in a solid--namely, you can't see past the surface to see the bubbles, so it looks solid with no structure, much like the core of the planet appears to surface dwellers.

Haley, however, deduced his model from the Earth's magnetic fields and poles, which is a scientific measurement of how time changes space. So essentially, Haley was ABLE to see the temporal structure of the Earth, indirectly, because of this magnetic structure.

In my next iteration on RS2 development, I'm breaking away from Larson somewhat because we found a better way to model atomic systems mathematically, and hence, geometrically. It is based on what is called "division algebra," which if you look up on the Wikipedia is not even close to understandable, unless you're a math whiz. But what it comes down to, is that there are only a certain number of dimensions that both start and end on the "real" axis, which makes it "closed" (a loop). Those dimensions are:

To keep the regions of space and time symmetric across the unit speed boundary, we mirrored the magnetic structure of the atom (the A-B part of Larson's A-B-C atomic notation) over to the spatial rotation (C), making a new model of A-B--C-D. Note that this is 4-dimensional, not 3, so it is a bit of a departure from Larson's scalar system--BUT--you can derive Larson's model, because only a NET magnitude can be transmitted across the unit boundary, so the compound motion of C-D looks just like a single dimension of C. The "D" rotation is the interesting one, since it is not directly observable by our instruments--yet greatly influences electric motion. It may explain a lot of the unusual effects on high power systems, such as those documented by Eric Dollard in his early lectures.

I extrapolated this new atomic model to the aggregate model of the hollow Earth structure. What you find is this:

Outer gravitational limit (out in space, down to the surface of the Earth).

The Underworld, where souls go after death to be judged. Interesting thing here is that this in the 3D TIME of the atoms making up the structure of the mantle. Consider that a life unit is an aggregate of a material (body, atoms with temporal rotation) and cosmic (soul, atoms with spatial rotation) structure. When you die, you lose your body connection, so all that is left is the cosmic soul part--and that is rotation in SPACE. Since the Underworld is 3D time, and space-to-time constitutes motion, guess where you soul can travel to freely? The surface world, is 3D space and 3D surface space to 3D spatial rotation is NOT motion, which is why we bury people after death, so their souls can transit into the Earth from their body and into the Underworld for judgement. (If you consider the spatio-temporal relations of the life unit, it's rather spooky that it seems to scientifically verify the old religious beliefs.) Yes, Virginia, there IS an Underworld. (Got the idea from Gopi's cartoon books on Yama, describing a trip to the Underworld.)

The inner end of the Underworld will move into the ultra-high speed range, where one encounters the inverse gravitational limit--the sphere of rest, as put in Etidorhpa. Since matter wants to accumulate around this region (that oscillation effect), this forms the classic "inner world" of most of the hollow Earth mythos.

Now the second "rotation" (the B part of the A-B--C-D notation) begins, starting at that inverse gravitational limit and forming an atmospheric zone, where gravity is pointing outward, towards the surface world.

As one rotates through the B rotation, a solid structure will again form, making an inner, solid shell.

An atmosphere will exist past that inner, solid shell, and extend inward to the inner gravitational limit (unit speed).

This is the point where the same system will recur, moving in time instead of space and duplicating this structure from the bottom, up. The result would then appear, from the surface world, as three hollow spheres and a solid, central core--Haley's model.

A condition occurs here that Larson documents with the chemical relations of atoms in a molecule. When two atoms are sitting right at the unit boundary, the situation is highly unstable. Any motion that would make the atoms separate by just ONE natural unit of motion, would cause the atoms to fly apart, and just ONE unit closer, and they would be pulled together. And that is most likely what happens here, with the outer realm/inner realm model. In molecules, the atoms find a stable structure within the gravitational limits of each other, balancing the inward motion of gravity against the outward motion of the progression (this is why molecules are drawn as balls interpenetrating each other, rather than the surfaces touching). Same thing happens at the aggregate level--the inner sphere of the material world overlaps the inner sphere of the cosmic world--and in that zone we find a lot of energy trapped near the inner gravitational limit (not the inverse limit), giving it the appearance of a "central sun."

So what we seen in the "observed" models of the hollow Earth is the outer, spherical shell of rock, the inner atmosphere, and the "overlap zone" as the central sun. Tartarus, observationally, would be the inner sphere on the material side, just behind the "fire" of the inner sun which probably coincides with the "outer core" structure of Earth. (The inner core, and inner, inner core would be the cosmic half of the structure--remember the reciprocal relation between density: more dense in space, less dense in time. Super-dense "core" in space is an atmosphere or vacuum in time).

Electromagnetically, we see Haley's model of the hollow Earth appear, and observationally, the conventional model. The only big difference is that the Underworld is the zone between the outer and inner surface, in the equivalent space of the mantle. This actually fits the mythos quite well, as from Hades, one can either proceed to Elysium (Etidorhpa, on the inner surface), reincarnate back to the surface world, or continue to the Other Realm (Agartha). Shamans were often able to take a trip through secret, underground passages to catch the souls of the recently departed on their way to the Underworld, and bring them back. A cave system would allow them to do that--something the material body could move through, to a point where souls would be transiting through the rock. It makes for an interesting scenario to consider.

Something that occurred to me yesterday is that if you look at the "imaginary" parts of the dimensional relations, you have 1, 3 and 7 dimensions (137 being a mystical number). I think that may be the origin of the 3's and 7's that occur so frequently in metaphysics, with the inclusion of the real part making 8 of the octonian--the "octave."

This structure would also apply to the sun, stars, moons, Arks and any body capable of orbiting another. (Suns and stars would be inside-out as compared to the solid planets, since the planets are based on the white dwarf model in RS2.)

LoneBear wrote:
[*]Now the second "rotation" (the B part of the A-B--C-D notation) begins, starting at that inverse gravitational limit and forming an atmospheric zone, where gravity is pointing outward, towards the surface world.
[*]As one rotates through the B rotation, a solid structure will again form, making an inner, solid shell.
[*]An atmosphere will exist past that inner, solid shell, and extend inward to the inner gravitational limit (unit speed).[/list]
This is the point where the same system will recur, moving in time instead of space and duplicating this structure from the bottom, up. The result would then appear, from the surface world, as three hollow spheres and a solid, central core--Haley's model.

I had a dream about these two opposing spirals, the one was colored pink and the other light blue, the middle part between them was golden brown and the background was white. Also the opposing spirals were as suggests rotating opposing sides, one to the left other to the right. While I was reading this I just remembered this dream and that I had drawn it in my notebook.

I think that those rotations might be on opposing sides, to create the unit speed boundary, or that the unit speed boundary keeps them rotating on opposing sides. What you think of this idea?

Also I just recently had an dream where in the night sky I saw our moon and then to the left there appeared to be some sort of an tear and within there was 5 moons, partially visible, because of the boundaries of that tear in the sky. The partially visible moons were oriented as 3 on upper part and 2 on the bottom, each moon had this red color shown on their specific sides that were shown. The red color was that of an lunar eclipse. Also the moons were little bit different sizes and seemed to be identical to our moon. Below on the ground there were drawings of those moons, but they were drawn in almost straight line.
I think that this has something to do with five lunar cycles maybe, or the next lunar eclipses, which will show those parts that were in my dream.

Very cool post Lonebear. It'll take awhile to digest. But the concepts are fascinating. Especially, how we are connected to the planet after death. It makes so much sense. The first thing that came to me from this was the question, " Is the core involved in ascension?"

The reciprocal relation between space and time, along with Larson's structure of life units is quite revealing... it also means that if the center of consciousness is moved from the body to the soul, you will have your awareness in Agartha, the cosmic soul, rather than Earth, the material soul. (That relation is easy to remember... Earth is material-istic!) But in RS terms, they are both part of the "physical" universe, just different faces of the coin of motion.

So with this info, what would be your conclusion, regarding Ascension?

About the only other clue I have is from the Cyclopeans, whom chose THIS world, specifically, as their outpost/Monastery for Ascension to the Theta Octave. The thought occurs to me that there must be something unique about this world that appears to open that gateway, that was not present on the other worlds in the solar system at the time of their arrival.

Some more technical details on the hollow planet theory, based on the "dual quaternion"... each of the Division Algebra's can be "dualized," where you basically have opposite rotations--rotate inward, then rotate back out (like Ilkka's spirals). The material (spatial) side of this would have this structure:

Mirror this structure at the inner gravitational limit for the cosmic (temporal) side, then slide a bit together to establish that "molecular" equilibrium and you have the structure of planets, stars and atoms. All the same, just a different "scale" (that's why the RS is based on "scalar motion"--changing scales. The resulting geometry looks like the vesica piscis. Curiously enough if you put a dot in the center of that vesica piscis to represent the "inner sun," it looks remarkable like an eyeball--the "all seeing Eye."

The "imaginary" components are just an indicator of the "rotational operator," as Nehru puts it, so where you have rotation, you have atomic structure--except when you've rotated all the way around to the -1 side, which is "real" again. The region from +1 to i would be the atmospheric region, going from the +1 of space to a disburse atomic system--vapor and gas. i to i.j would be the crust and mantle--the Underworld. i.j to -1 (i.j.k) would be the inner atmosphere.

LoneBear wrote:Gopi has departed from his 3-week stay here and is now back in India. Needless to say, we did a lot of "catching up" over that time, and I have tons of new information to relate. Some of this regards a parallel between a new, atomic structure and the hollow planet theory--same model, but on an aggregate level.

Bruce and Gopi, you have excelled yourself once more, Magnum opus! As above, so below...

LoneBear wrote:The primary discrepancy between hollow Earth models comes from Edmund Haley (the comet guy) who created that 4-shell model whereas everyone else has a single, inner world with a central sun. Turns out that all these models are correct, if you understand the assumptions that went into them.

The single-shell hollow Earth models are based primarily on mythological trips to the region, so they are defined by a material sector observer. What that means is that any structure that has a net, temporal rotation to it will appear as a solid. This includes conventional atomic structure (since atoms are temporal rotations), as well as the speed ranges above unity, where things are moving in time, rather than space. Any structure to these temporal regions will appear to the material observer as bubbles in a solid--namely, you can't see past the surface to see the bubbles, so it looks solid with no structure, much like the core of the planet appears to surface dwellers.

Haley, however, deduced his model from the Earth's magnetic fields and poles, which is a scientific measurement of how time changes space. So essentially, Haley was ABLE to see the temporal structure of the Earth, indirectly, because of this magnetic structure.

I actually started doing two single shell models, one for the material and one for the cosmic but felt it was two diagrams too many. It's quite tricky breaking a lifetime of material perspective programming...

LoneBear wrote:In my next iteration on RS2 development, I'm breaking away from Larson somewhat because we found a better way to model atomic systems mathematically, and hence, geometrically. It is based on what is called "division algebra," which if you look up on the Wikipedia is not even close to understandable, unless you're a math whiz. But what it comes down to, is that there are only a certain number of dimensions that both start and end on the "real" axis, which makes it "closed" (a loop). Those dimensions are:

Mathematics is definitely my weak point but I checked the wiki anyway and this part does make perfect sense to me from an RS perspective:

Definitions
Formally, we start with an algebra D over a field, and assume that D does not just consist of its zero element. We call D a division algebra if for any element a in D and any non-zero element b in D there exists precisely one element x in D with a = bx and precisely one element y in D such that a = yb.

For associative algebras, the definition can be simplified as follows: an associative algebra over a field is a division algebra if and only if it has a multiplicative identity element 1≠0 and every non-zero element a has a multiplicative inverse (i.e. an element x with ax = xa = 1).

Two halfs of the coin with one inverted = one coin, unity.

LoneBear wrote:To keep the regions of space and time symmetric across the unit speed boundary, we mirrored the magnetic structure of the atom (the A-B part of Larson's A-B-C atomic notation) over to the spatial rotation (C), making a new model of A-B--C-D. Note that this is 4-dimensional, not 3, so it is a bit of a departure from Larson's scalar system--BUT--you can derive Larson's model, because only a NET magnitude can be transmitted across the unit boundary, so the compound motion of C-D looks just like a single dimension of C. The "D" rotation is the interesting one, since it is not directly observable by our instruments--yet greatly influences electric motion. It may explain a lot of the unusual effects on high power systems, such as those documented by Eric Dollard in his early lectures.

Does this explain why, referring back to our LM connected Triskelion, there are only three spirals? Essentially one of them is C-D but only appears as one spiral/single dimension?

The Tri-Spiral design engraved on one of the stones inside the chamber of Newgrange is probably the most famous Irish Megalithic symbol. It is often referred to as a Celtic design, but it was carved at least 2500 years before the Celts reached Ireland.

Now who do we know that has been calling Tiamat "home" for a very long time....

LoneBear wrote:I extrapolated this new atomic model to the aggregate model of the hollow Earth structure. What you find is this:

-Outer gravitational limit (out in space, down to the surface of the Earth).
-The Underworld, where souls go after death to be judged. Interesting thing here is that this in the 3D TIME of the atoms making up the structure of the mantle. Consider that a life unit is an aggregate of a material (body, atoms with temporal rotation) and cosmic (soul, atoms with spatial rotation) structure. When you die, you lose your body connection, so all that is left is the cosmic soul part--and that is rotation in SPACE. Since the Underworld is 3D time, and space-to-time constitutes motion, guess where you soul can travel to freely? The surface world, is 3D space and 3D surface space to 3D spatial rotation is NOT motion, which is why we bury people after death, so their souls can transit into the Earth from their body and into the Underworld for judgement. (If you consider the spatio-temporal relations of the life unit, it's rather spooky that it seems to scientifically verify the old religious beliefs.) Yes, Virginia, there IS an Underworld. (Got the idea from Gopi's cartoon books on Yama, describing a trip to the Underworld.)
-The inner end of the Underworld will move into the ultra-high speed range, where one encounters the inverse gravitational limit--the sphere of rest, as put in Etidorhpa. Since matter wants to accumulate around this region (that oscillation effect), this forms the classic "inner world" of most of the hollow Earth mythos.
-Now the second "rotation" (the B part of the A-B--C-D notation) begins, starting at that inverse gravitational limit and forming an atmospheric zone, where gravity is pointing outward, towards the surface world.
-As one rotates through the B rotation, a solid structure will again form, making an inner, solid shell.
-An atmosphere will exist past that inner, solid shell, and extend inward to the inner gravitational limit (unit speed).

This is the point where the same system will recur, moving in time instead of space and duplicating this structure from the bottom, up. The result would then appear, from the surface world, as three hollow spheres and a solid, central core--Haley's model.

I actually had another version of the model that was pointing in this direction but at the time felt it was getting away from your previous model. I should have listened to my cosmic self!

LoneBear wrote:A condition occurs here that Larson documents with the chemical relations of atoms in a molecule. When two atoms are sitting right at the unit boundary, the situation is highly unstable. Any motion that would make the atoms separate by just ONE natural unit of motion, would cause the atoms to fly apart, and just ONE unit closer, and they would be pulled together. And that is most likely what happens here, with the outer realm/inner realm model. In molecules, the atoms find a stable structure within the gravitational limits of each other, balancing the inward motion of gravity against the outward motion of the progression (this is why molecules are drawn as balls interpenetrating each other, rather than the surfaces touching). Same thing happens at the aggregate level--the inner sphere of the material world overlaps the inner sphere of the cosmic world--and in that zone we find a lot of energy trapped near the inner gravitational limit (not the inverse limit), giving it the appearance of a "central sun."

So what we seen in the "observed" models of the hollow Earth is the outer, spherical shell of rock, the inner atmosphere, and the "overlap zone" as the central sun. Tartarus, observationally, would be the inner sphere on the material side, just behind the "fire" of the inner sun which probably coincides with the "outer core" structure of Earth. (The inner core, and inner, inner core would be the cosmic half of the structure--remember the reciprocal relation between density: more dense in space, less dense in time. Super-dense "core" in space is an atmosphere or vacuum in time).

So do you think the bodies of the Titans have possibly been left rotating for ever (or until they are freed again) in the sphere of rest/inner gravitational limit, thus keeping the connection between the material and cosmic halves of the life unit, on either side of the unit speed boundary?

LoneBear wrote:Electromagnetically, we see Haley's model of the hollow Earth appear, and observationally, the conventional model. The only big difference is that the Underworld is the zone between the outer and inner surface, in the equivalent space of the mantle. This actually fits the mythos quite well, as from Hades, one can either proceed to Elysium (Etidorhpa, on the inner surface), reincarnate back to the surface world, or continue to the Other Realm (Agartha). Shamans were often able to take a trip through secret, underground passages to catch the souls of the recently departed on their way to the Underworld, and bring them back. A cave system would allow them to do that--something the material body could move through, to a point where souls would be transiting through the rock. It makes for an interesting scenario to consider.

So Etidorhpa was right again then... and a majority of the journey "down under" takes place in Hades before the sphere of rest and "movement by thought" beyond the unit speed boundary to the unknown country?

LoneBear wrote:Something that occurred to me yesterday is that if you look at the "imaginary" parts of the dimensional relations, you have 1, 3 and 7 dimensions (137 being a mystical number). I think that may be the origin of the 3's and 7's that occur so frequently in metaphysics, with the inclusion of the real part making 8 of the octonian--the "octave."

This structure would also apply to the sun, stars, moons, Arks and any body capable of orbiting another. (Suns and stars would be inside-out as compared to the solid planets, since the planets are based on the white dwarf model in RS2.)

137 certainly turns up in a lot of interesting places...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/137_%28number%29. It's interesting to note the musical octave popping up again after the excellent topic here on music. I was born on the 8th!

Ilkka wrote:I had a dream about these two opposing spirals, the one was colored pink and the other light blue, the middle part between them was golden brown and the background was white. Also the opposing spirals were as suggests rotating opposing sides, one to the left other to the right. While I was reading this I just remembered this dream and that I had drawn it in my notebook.

I think that those rotations might be on opposing sides, to create the unit speed boundary, or that the unit speed boundary keeps them rotating on opposing sides. What you think of this idea?

Nice connection Ilkka! You sent me off hunting to see what I could find on opposing spirals and a few interesting things turned up:

THE FRACTAL MATRIX: A PARADIGM FOR MULTIDIMENSIONAL REALITY
(June, 2004)
PART I
(Part II, Part III, Part IV, PartV)
By Noel Huntley, Ph.D.

What would be the most simple structure for the initial development of such a model? It would be a circle. Let us now elaborate on this circle and make it into a spiral; a little like connecting together many circles---see Figure 1. This should be imagined as a fine spiral with no gaps (beyond about quantum size).

In 2D they are like circles within circles but in 3D or more they are like shells within shells connected as a total spiral (ideally this should then be envisaged in 4D to give perfect supersymmetry when we introduce the anti-spiral). This is the same as the vortex model given in other articles where much more detail is presented, such as the article, The Basic Energy Unit ---which, in particular, shows the higher-dimensional nature of the vortex.

In terms of three or more dimensions, this spiral would resemble spheres within spheres. The direction of motion of the energy is inwards from be periphery to the centre. This is essentially a model for a vortex. Current science interprets reality at the particle level and thus focusses only on the external world and the lowest contextual orders of the spiral near the centre.

What logical justification do we have for introducing these concentric circles or spirals? The spiral or vortex is a natural and efficient way for energy to transduce from higher dimensions to low. The reader is referred to the articles, The Source of Fractals and The Theory of One.

Returning to Figure 1, what may be surprising now is that each turn of the spiral (a circle) is a potential fractal level. Figure 2 shows three potential fractal levels highlighted---meaning they have manifested a form into reality. If we imagine an opposite total spiral underlying the one in Figure 1---see Figure 3, a 'side' view---using the 2D or 3D view of this, we can give it standing wave structures at each of the levels where the opposite interacts. (There are no stable forms or even time without counteraction and limitations.)

Figure 2 shows the three fractal shells formed by opposing spirals, creating standing waves. Figure 3 gives an idea of the inner structure. Since this has been covered in other articles we will not repeat the explanation as we wish to move on to programming applications to nature and the universe.

In effect, we are describing a vortex matrix from which all forms emanate. In Figure 2 the fractal strata A, B, C could be a universe, a planet, an atom, respectively. One might see at this point that the universe, circle A will spiral through other fractal levels, not shown: into many galaxies, which in turn spiral into many star systems, which in turn spiral into planets, such as fractal level B in Figure 2, and further eventually into atoms, say, fractal C (see later figures). These must be stable stationary states---and there will be many in reality. Note that the spiral forms closed systems at these fractal levels (which on the negative side provide a mechanism of entrapment and evolutionary control).

It looks like Noel Huntley has reached a lot of similar conclusions to the work done here when you look at his research, he just doesn't have the RS2 angle (or should that be rotation!) on things:

“So alienated from ourselves are we that when we encounter our own souls in the psychedelic dimension, we mistake it for a UFO. This is serious alienation folks, I think we have to get back into the inner jeweled realm and make ourselves at home there.” ~ Terence McKenna

“In some sense man is a microcosm of the universe; therefore what man is, is a clue to the universe. We are enfolded in the universe.” ~ David Bohm

In “The Art Of Seeing: Third Eye Perception & The Mystical Gaze,” I explored the phenomenon of inner visions experienced in meditation, such as mandalas and other “third eye” phenomena. The “third” or “inner” eye has been called a gateway to other dimensions, a personal portal leading into esoteric visionary realms.

This theory is compatible with the ancient Eastern belief, from Hindus to Taoists, that the luminous sphere witnessed in the inner eye region is in fact the same tunnel through which the human soul exits the body.

LoneBear wrote:Some more technical details on the hollow planet theory, based on the "dual quaternion"... each of the Division Algebra's can be "dualized," where you basically have opposite rotations--rotate inward, then rotate back out (like Ilkka's spirals). The material (spatial) side of this would have this structure:

Mirror this structure at the inner gravitational limit for the cosmic (temporal) side, then slide a bit together to establish that "molecular" equilibrium and you have the structure of planets, stars and atoms. All the same, just a different "scale" (that's why the RS is based on "scalar motion"--changing scales. The resulting geometry looks like the vesica piscis. Curiously enough if you put a dot in the center of that vesica piscis to represent the "inner sun," it looks remarkable like an eyeball--the "all seeing Eye."

The "imaginary" components are just an indicator of the "rotational operator," as Nehru puts it, so where you have rotation, you have atomic structure--except when you've rotated all the way around to the -1 side, which is "real" again. The region from +1 to i would be the atmospheric region, going from the +1 of space to a disburse atomic system--vapor and gas. i to i.j would be the crust and mantle--the Underworld. i.j to -1 (i.j.k) would be the inner atmosphere.

So Maxwellian quaternion theory was on the right track, until it was assaulted and drastically reduced by Heaviside and co.? I would love to have seen the world we live in today if that hadn't happened... http://www.rexresearch.com/maxwell.htm but it is so typical of TPTB to suppress and destroy such work in order to keep the slaves in the dark...

mongo wrote:" Is the core involved in ascension?"

This got me thinking... if the earth expanded and there was a core flare, would this be akin to a door opening up to the other realm?

LoneBear wrote:The reciprocal relation between space and time, along with Larson's structure of life units is quite revealing... it also means that if the center of consciousness is moved from the body to the soul, you will have your awareness in Agartha, the cosmic soul, rather than Earth, the material soul. (That relation is easy to remember... Earth is material-istic!) But in RS terms, they are both part of the "physical" universe, just different faces of the coin of motion.

About the only other clue I have is from the Cyclopeans, whom chose THIS world, specifically, as their outpost/Monastery for Ascension to the Theta Octave. The thought occurs to me that there must be something unique about this world that appears to open that gateway, that was not present on the other worlds in the solar system at the time of their arrival.

It's unfortunate that if there is something unique about this world that opens the gateway, few people are going to find it, especially if they have to look inside. I have a hard enough time trying to get people to look up at the sky on the outside!

LoneBear wrote:So with this info, what would be your conclusion, regarding Ascension?

My conclusion is that it is up to us to look then travel inside and bridge the connection between both halves of the life unit, in order to shift our consciousness to our cosmic soul and "ascend" (I prefer "descend") ourselves. No savior required... we've got to do the hard work ourselves.

Jones: [looks at Sallah] You said their headpiece only had markings on one side, are you absolutely sure? [Sallah nods] Belloq's staff is too long.Jones and Sallah: They're digging in the wrong place!