Sunday, January 24, 2010

Tonight's "Big Love" offered up a whole lot of Bill Henrickson at his most smug, stubborn and irritating, and the return of Teeny in the body of a different actress, but it also had some great interaction between Nicki and Cara Lynn (who is absolutely her mother's daughter), a great turn by Sissy Spacek as an influential Washington type, and some very interesting developments on the Margene front.

I truly am obessed with Big Love, and have been from the beginning. I don't know what I think about this whole Margie/Ben thing either- it seemed like a very random thing for her to do. This show has sucked me in, big time. I can hardly wait for next SUnday!

Loved the Margie development, the JJ/Niki storyline, and the guest star. Continued to not like the unrealistic Bill storylines. (Including him "talking" the cops out of Niki's felony gun charge..please).

I don't know. For some reason I feel like this season is simultaneously trying to do too much but also moving too slowly. The JJ storyline in particular doesn't really seem to be going anywhere and seems to be on repeat every single week.

Was it that the original Teeny wasn't a good enough actress, or was it more a case that the actress aged out of the role? She is supposed to be several years younger than her siblings, but the girl really sprouted in that 2-year gap between seasons 2 and 3 (which was not 2 years in show time).

I still have awful memories of Adam Beach on SVU, so I haven't been very happy to see him thus far. And the business with Margene and Ben not only contradicts where she was at last season, but it makes no sense. She's becoming quite the success, so I could see her possibly being tempted by some of the perks that go along with that, including other men, but certainly not by her (still teenage?) "son."

I do like what the show has done with Alby this year, though. He's an unsympathetic character still, but obviously a tormented one.

Knowing what I do about DC gun laws, count me as another who found Bill getting Nicki out of that crisis to be highly improbable.

Spacek will obviously be back...Bill owes her a favor and she's clearly got some kind of interest in the gaming industry out in Utah...

I also didn't buy the Margene-JJ kiss...but I would have in a previous season...so I can live with it.

What I can't live with is seeing much more of Bill's brother and his crazy wife...its just hard to take those scenes.

I do love the newly self-aware, in love/lust Albie...I've never enjoyed how thinly drawn he's been, but this felt like a breakout for his character.

After finding the first couple episodes to be duds, this one shone bright for me.

Last thought...Bill must be chosen by his God, because how else could somebody so damn stupid/foolish/irredeemingly asshatted continue to triumph in personal, business and now political interactions...it could only be by the grace of his God

Hyde is right about Teeny. The producers said in an interview recently that the actress shot up almost overnight and looked too mature to be playing the part. They also said they really struggled with the decision to replace her because they liked the original actress and her work so much.

This was an incredibly busy episode. I kept looking at the clock thinking it must be about to end soon because so much transpired. Maybe too much--it started to really feel soapy to me.

There were some great moments--Nikki's honesty at how confused, frightened and frustrated she really is, and the Bill we used to love promising to help her though it; Nikki saying lying almost never works!; actually feeling sorry for Alby for a few moments; Ben saving the day and Wayne trying to while JJ terrorized Margene; the look in Sissy Spacek's eye when Nikki mentioned the casino--that was wonderful and can't end well; the coffin lid falling on Roman's head (scared the dog with my reaction).

I'm not sold on the Margie/Ben kiss. I understand why we were supposed to believe it, but I wasn't feeling it.

I'm really mixed on this episode. SO MUCH happened, and some of it was simply preposterous. Bill talking police out of a concealed weapons charge in DC for Nikki, and the Margie/Ben kiss for two examples.

I am so on the fence about "Big Love" this season. I just loved this show two years ago when it first hit HBO. But, like some of you guys, I am starting to be repulsed by Bill. What's up with Sarah taking home the meth addict and her baby???Who was in the car talking to JJ telling him that Wanda and Joey reacted just as he wanted? Couldn't have been his almost dead wife could it? I just find the episodes too "busy".

I love love this show but the first two episodes of this season didn't do much for me, this episode I liked better though. Why they are only doing 9 episodes this season is a mystery, I think it's affected the pace of the show, which seems off.

Love the Alby story line, he is truly disturbing. (not as disturbing as the look on Bill's face when he gave Hicki that Fredrick's of Hollywood nightie, but close).

On a related Tenny note, I was distressed by the picture of the girl who plays Sally Draper on MM at the SAG awards - she looked adorable but she also looked like an almost teenager and I don't know that that is going to fit with the timeline for th next season of MM...she's such a gret actress, I can't imagine them re-casting the part but they would need at least a 2 year jump in MM time next season for her to be able to play the role. I hearby dub this the "Walt syndrome".

I have to say I'm not really enjoying this season. I like most of the characters, but the storylines this year aren't really making a lot of sense to me. Why is JJ there? He and Nikki seem to fight every week about Cara Lynn's whereabouts. Why doesn't he just take her back to Kansas already? And what is he trying to pull with Joey and Wanda? I don't mind a good mystery or a slowburn story, but it's hard to care when we know so little about what his intentions are. Why is Barb suddenly so involved in the casino? Last year it was Margene. And what is going on with her and Adam Beach? They seem to be hinting at something there, which is fine, except it's coming out of nowhere. And all of it is redundant since they already have Margene's jewelry business and flirtation with Ben. Her chastising Sarah for helping the Indian girl also made no sense when it seemed Barb was there to do the exact same thing. Why does Bill suddenly want to get into politics? Last year he wanted to be in the casino business. Then he wanted to start a church. The writers need to pick a storyline and stick to it already. Then, of course, there's Frank and Lois. They hate each other, so why don't they just leave each other alone? And what was all that stuff with the birds a few weeks ago? Nothing to do with them makes any sense. And what is going on with the UEB trust? Alby's love interest is supposed to be his adversary, right? So why is he helping him to plan for how to run the Kansas compound?

I have to agree with some of the comments. Margene laying a kiss on Ben seemed very out of left field. Bill getting Nikki out of a gun charge rang false. The episode seemed a bit busy too me but went on for what seemed like over an hour. Usually, I'm sympathetic towards Barb but I've become apathetic over the past three episodes. Alby's storyline seems like it could be compelling if it moves forward.

Bill was extremely annoying in this episode proving to me that he (continually) suffers from very strong narcissistic personality. I enjoyed seeing Spacek and loved how she played Bill. Bill hasn't done his homework in terms of running for office. He just wants what he does and doesn't bother to do the legwork. It was unwise of him to reject Spacek in terms of "helping her find a drink" when she comes out that way. He doesn't have to drink but he should know that he needs to play the game of politics.

Anon 8:57am, I thought I was seeing things but now I see I wasn't the only who saw what looked like some kind of spark between Barb and Adam when he called her back to explain about the meth problem. It would make no sense if Barb went down that path as she and Nikki take the crown for the self-righteous. Although, Nikki did go down a different path last year with Ray Henry and saw him once this year.

There is tremendous amount going on this season. Last night's episode was the strongest for me, thus far.

a whole lot of Bill Henrickson at his most smug, stubborn and irritating...

It must be awesome to be Bill and be able to justify every impulsive, selfish action as a "testimony" from God. "Honey! I had a testimony! I should start banging younger chicks!" "I'm going to ruin all of our lives by running for office. It was a testimony!" "Heavenly Father gave me a testimony that I should secure our family financially by preying on the misery of others!"

I think we're seeing something really interesting this season where Sarah has apparently renounced the family's religion, but is the only one who acts in a recognizably Christian manner.

I'm really struggling with the show so far this season. I just can't understand anyone's motivations:

Nikki ignored the fact that she had a daughter for 12 years, didn't even tell her new family, and now she won't let her go?

Bill has a "calling" to run for office even if it means ruining the lives of his entire family?

Margene finally comes into her own and she kisses her "son," who she was very clear last season had to get used to her being one of his mothers?

Sarah pulls away from the family to get married in her own way and then gets ultra-involved with someone from the reservation?

Alby is doing everything in his power to be the next Prophet, but instead of trying to resist his gay urges is going after this guy with full force?

Not to mention the other compound antics between Joey and Wanda, JJ and his creepy cancerous wife, and Bill's awful parents. I'll hang on for a while to see where this season goes, but it's getting annoying and infuriating. Barb, or Margene, used to be the rational person to latch on to as a way into this world, but I'm having trouble understanding any of them these days, and even more trouble liking them.

TL makes the best point of the bunch: what is the true nature of "Godliness?" Certainly not what's exhibited by all the show's "observant" characters.

Margene/Ben's kiss was way too much reminiscent of some daytime soap; it's a cheap way to advance some plot "drama" yet entirely counter to the characters' personalities. It's sad, because Ben (like his sister) is truly a good, moral person.

BL's usually astute story editor must have been napping for this episode. Somebody needed to tell the writers "no" to some of this.

Margene kissing Ben made no sense given the way her character's been drawn - i.e. somewhat sane, with a backbone, and not self destructive.

The scenario in DC was farfetched -- at the first call from Bill Hendrickson a congressional staff would look up who he is in their database and know what they wanted out of him. They'd know his political giving, his business, even how often he votes -- and might know his marital status. Sissy Spacek is great but her character was nonsense.

And Barb hitting a pedestrian -- just blatantly contrived and unnecessary. There was already plenty to explore with Barb/casino/newly married daughter.

Meanwhile, there is so much going with the succession and Roman and Alby -- they could have filled 45 minutes with what Alby's going through (and by the way, Matt Ross is absolutely wonderful -- certainly one of the stars of this cast).

Bill continues to be such an ass. He really thinks that once he gets elected (a tremendous long-shot) the family can safely come out as polygamists? How does THAT work???

And that shot of Bill trying to chase down the senator in the car to get his endorsement? That guys doesn't know Bill from a hole in the ground. Why would he endorse him? It's just so stupid. But I still love the show.

Nikki packing a gun, what, in the White House? Is she out of her fricking mind?

Barb running down Indians? Ooops! I just love all the absurdity.

I have a serious girl-crush on Margene suddenly. She is so darling. Her skin is just creamy perfection. I was not at all surprised by her kiss with Ben! He had just come to her rescue in the JJ home invasion, and then he was the only one who came to support her when she was very nervously preparing to go on "prime time." I thought the kiss felt right at that moment-- forgetting for a moment how very wrong it was....

I just loved when Sissy Specek was giving Bill the brush-off. But then heavenly Father, working through Nikki, brought her around. I liked the brush-off better.

I will take the contrary view on the Ben/Margene kiss. Yes, she shut him down last season, but, given the stress of the event, the fact that Ben had protected her the night before and then became the only close family member to show up for her taping, it made (enough) sense to me.

Am I the only one who thinks that Sissy Spacek's character is not actually supporting Bill, but rather became interested once she knew he had opened a casino and is just waiting for the right moment to take him down hard?

She's still playing him like a violin. Not difficult to do to a man who has so much ego. "Oh Bill, I didn't realize what a Big Shot you were. Oh Bill!" He was putty in her hands after a few tired ego strokes.

There's something about the idea of a Mormon candidate's involvement in gaming, or perhaps gaming itself, that sent her to war. Before that, she just didn't like Bill. Now she has an agenda.

Even Bill had the sense to not trust this sudden change of heart, although he more or less dismissed it in the end.

No. Her expression very clearly changes when Nicki mentions the casino (as opposed to any of the other items she's listing from Bill's C.V.). I don't know if she's planning to take him down or just use the casino in some way to help her boss, but she's clearly using Bill in some way, because of the casino.

KeepingAwake, I also noticed that Spacek had zero interest in Bill, until Nicki mentioned the Indian casino in the bathroom. Spacek's whole demeanor changed in that moment, for reasons I'm sure we'll discover later.

I wasn't surprised by the Margie/Ben kiss. I always thought that their relationship was inappropriate. In the first two seasons I thought, hey if this polygamous marriage is working for everyone, more power to them but now it has become evident that no one is happy in this marriage except for maybe Bill (and I’m not sure about that either).

Barb seems to question more and more whether or not the sacrifices she’s made are worth the reward. She doesn’t like her sister wives, that tidbit of information made last season with Ana very interesting. Barb is isolated from her family, from her church, and from her previous friends…all so that she can hide her marriage.

Nikki knows that Bill married her to get the money for Home Plus. I think that’s why she was crying when Sarah got married to a man she truly loves and who loves her in return. Nikki will never know that kind of love as long as she’s with Bill, which is perhaps why she was so tempted to be with Ray.

Margene has always struck me as a young dummy who will go along with anything. I realize that she came from a very messed up family but what are her beliefs and convictions? I like her character the least. It seems perfectly fitting to me that she should kiss her ‘step’ son after he was there for her when Bill was off in DC with his #2.

There is a part of me that really wishes that Sarah would have gone ahead and gotten married without her family being there but I understand why she didn’t.

I love this show but I want to see this family break apart at the end.

I think one of the more interesting themes of the show are the sacrifices that these characters make in their earthly lives for the promise of rewards after death. I know that Barb and Nicki's participation in plural marriage are primarily motivated by celestial rewards in the afterlife ... Margene, not so much, I think she entered the marriage because she thought it would be a fun clubhouse-type environment, but I think as she matures and grows ever more independent, she will eventually be out of this marriage so fast she will leave a vapor trail behind her.

The theme came up again tonight in the conversation between Alby and his lover, where they discussed whether homosexuality exists in the afterlife. The lover seemed pretty convinced of his opinion, but Alby questioned him, "How do you know that?"

So many characters on this show take what happens in the afterlife for granted, it was very telling that one of them (Alby) finally reflected for a moment and questioned whether the foundation for their entire belief system could ever be proven, or where it even comes from.

So many characters on this show take what happens in the afterlife for granted, it was very telling that one of them (Alby) finally reflected for a moment and questioned whether the foundation for their entire belief system could ever be proven, or where it even comes from.

It's my guess that the writers are agnostic about it, but I'd be interested to find out whether they work with any assumptions about the existence of God within the show's world.

Is Bill's God real? Was Bill's prayer answered last night (or, e.g., in "Come All Ye Saints"), or was that just coincidence? Or is the LDS God real, and Bill and his cohorts really are apostates?

Look at all the changes she's been through lately: her mom died, she lost the "wife" that she wanted to be added to the family, in the process of that, she learned that Barb, who she so looks up do, doesn't think all that much of her. Add to that Ben's rescue during JJ's home invasion and no one else showing up to support her, and Ben must be looking pretty good.

I don't really get why the Margene/Ben kiss was such a big deal. It was certainly inappropriate, but I don't see why it can't be kept a secret (like so many other indescretions in the H clan). Ben came alone to support Margie. Even if they never kissed, one might assume he is her husband/boyfriend. It seems like a forced ploy to out them.

The only people who would "commonly" understand Ben and Margie's situation as incest are other polygamists. They are not blood related, nor would the law consider them related. I would argue that Ben never fully considered Margie a mother figure. Think about it...Margie comes into the picture when Ben is probably around twelve or thirteen. He's about to hit puberty and Bill brings home a pretty girl in her early twenties, of course he's had a crush on her all these years. Margie should know better, but given the incident with JJ, Bill's increasingly divided attention, and finding herself alone before her big break on prime time, a lapse of judgment is understandable.

In any case Margie isn't long for this family. She's on the verge of being financially independent, as soon as she realizes that she's hot stuff and deserves more than 1/3 of an old man as a husband and she's out the door.

> as soon as she realizes that she's > hot stuff and deserves more than > 1/3 of an old man as a husband and> she's out the door.

Very interesting thought. I don't think the writers would write Margene out -- the show needs her -- but given what we know about her -- i.e. she's not insane -- one wonders why she continues to be in this family. Maybe she and Ben will get something going so we can stop thinking she's sane.

Yup, Bill is still an annoying idiot - but it's fantastic to see Sissy Spacek's character run circles around Bill in DC.

Despite everything, I think Margene has been the one wife who genuinely loves Bill (and Nicki and Barb) as a family - and hence her disappointment when no one seems to care about her success at work, and probably why she was so grateful that Ben did.

Barb, after her near death, did it for religious reasons, Nicki did it for religious reasons (and as we've seen, has been doubting her love for Bill because she is finally seeing through Carol Lyn how damaged she was from JC), but Margene have always done it out of love for a family who cares about her. Now that she has a business outside of the family (or perhaps in contradiction to the family's goals, now that Bill is doing what he wants) that she also loves, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I don't think Margene leaving would be as cut and dry as it seems. Especially now that Ben's involved. (I disagree - they've played around with their flirtations from the beginning, so I think it made sense why the kiss happened - especially after the whole family abandons her and Ben was the only one to save her - from JJ and from being alone at her first break at work.)

I used to consider Margene an idiot too. I especially disliked her for dragging Ana into the family. Or trying to. She seemed so childish and impulsive and silly.

But I think she's changed. And why not? She's at an age where she is still growing up. And now that she's having success with her business, and with palming off casino duties to Barb, she is testing her wings.

She didn't like the idea of putting all her earnings into the common pot, that was obvious. I think if that becomes an issue, she will push back, big-time.

In the episode before this one, didn't Bill heave off her in bed and she said "I wasn't finished"? She is getting more independant and coming into her own. You people who don't like her or don't think much of her-- give her another look! She's pretty spunky and cute!

Yes. A Margene-Ben thing is not legally incest but it's as inappropriate as can be. Her role is supposed to be parent to him. And I think Margene is sane enough to know that. She'll put the brakes on it but that kiss will continue to confuse Ben, who is already about as confused as a boy his age can be.

In defense of characters doing things they were previously against, isn't that human nature? If I had money for both apple pie and sundae, I'd buy both, not only one of them.

I actually like New Teeny. Especially when she said, "Sarah, I'm so sorry you weren't able to get married in the temple." She's like a genuinely innocent, similarly sanctimonious, but not-conniving Rhonda Volmer. It's consistent with Old Teeny telling Ben his crush on Margene is wrong (after Old Teeny read Ben's letter to Margene in Come Ye Saints).

Also, New Teeny was watching with Barb when Ben was on TV. So Barb knows there's something going on, but New Teeny knows the history.

As for Ben and Margene's kiss, I was so surprised. I've been watching from before, but I find the structure of each season similar to each other: the wives are pulled away, but the family stays together. It's been the case except for the first season, which was generally about Bill, and about setting the potential reason for the wives to go out of the marriage in the other seasons. In season 2, Barb's mom was trying to convince Barb to divorce Bill. In season 3, Nikki's family forced her to work for them. I think season 4 is about Margene.

Anyway, as regards Marilyn Densham (Sissy Spacek), I love her! JJ and his ill but fake-too-ill wife are creepy and all, but they operate more as Mormon compound characters, and compound characters, in Big Love, already have the motivation to be crazy. Densham, on the other hand, is about finesse. I still don't know why she suddenly perked up when Nicki mentioned the Indian gaming casino. And I swear I heard a bell ring when Densham looked up, but when I watched it again, it was only Sissy Spacek looking up.

How awesome is Wanda? "You're gonna hurt your fist or break the wall!" Also, "We don't need a chance, we just need each other!" And when she hurled at Roman Grant's grave! She's so kooky.

I like Cara Lynn's statement about Kansas's skies.

And Jodean. I like her. I really do. I hope Frank does something to JJ for scaring her.

And Wayne. I like Wayne. He, and Cara Lynn, and Ben, and Teeny can have a little half-hour spinoff for themselves. It could be called Little Big Love.

I screamed when Alby took a picture. That was just so Chekhov's gun.

But the part where Bill gets Nicki out of trouble for her gun was absurd.

Does anyone know WHY Nikki took a gun with her to Washington? I don't remember other episodes where she was carrying one around. Was it just because she's a Juniper Creek girl at heart and is afraid of the heathens that populate cities like D.C.?

I don't think anyone's mentioned the fine, satisfying moment when Delores the Indian casino worker yelled at Barb "Fuck you! White bitch! Your religion is a cult and you are all hypocrites." That was worth the price of admission.

Ben "outed" as Mr Margene, the gun incident - especially with Cara Lee shouting "I have seven moms" in front of the guards, Sarah's involvement with the indian meth-head: these are the things that will bring the Hendricksons to their knees.What will bring the entire show to its knees is the godawful moody music that's playing in the background AT ALL TIMES!

I agree with Eamon regarding the "incestuousness" of the Margene/Ben kiss. To further his point, the JJ incident (as always) shows Ben to be more of a family protector/provider than his own father. If anything, I can see Margene viewing Ben as the "man of the house" much more than her own husband. Not only is Ben a true friend (companion?) to Margene, but may also be more physically appealing to her. Clearly, as we see from the Margene/Bill sex scene, Bill does nothing for her sexually.

There has never been a true mother/son relationship between Margene & Bill (except when she pathetically tried to declare one) so the charge of incest is, I believe, inappropriate.

Also, while I fully believe that Mormonism is a cult (and a nasty, violent one at that) and that they, like most "true believers" are hypocritical, I found that "bitch" comment from the Native American woman striking and harsh. To me, Barb has always been the martyr figure, forced into this polygamous life and into the central maternal role.

She may have a serious blind spot to the Native Americans' situation, but she didn't deserved to be excoriated so.

@Moshen Family. You say "I found that "bitch" comment from the Native American woman striking and harsh. To me, Barb has always been the martyr figure, forced into this polygamous life and into the central maternal role."

The Indian woman was speaking from her own perception. She doesn't know Barb's backstory or any facts about Barb being forced into anything. I can totally see how Barb appears to the Indian workers who have lived lives of relative deprivation on the reservation. Of course they would have these feelings. It was amusing (to me!) to hear them come out so forcefully. Also, Delores sounded and looked exactly like Rosanne Barr in that scene.

I enjoyed it as part of the show. It's not real, just a show, after all.

Clearly that casino worker doesn't know Barb from Brigham Young, but the writers certainly do, and my point is that they didn't need to have her character so pilloried.

PS: Maybe the should could go a bit deeper into the whole Native American/casino connection. Are casinos simply retribution or "reparations" for their people's destruction? Do they really help the average Native American employeee or tribesman? (I apologize if that's not the proper term.) I have always thought that the modern Native American experience deserves a good examination, a la "The Wire."

I dont think Margene kissing Ben is that random at all. He was the only one that was there for her, and this job seems to mean a lot to her and most of the family just dismiss all she's done to get where she is (unless of course the money is mentioned). Blogging about this show actually helps all the little intricacies make more sense, and it is a very well written and performed piece of work.

I've been watching this show almost from the beginning, and I think it's great. However, I think this season's new opening sequence (music and image) is really weak. I also find that the story line of Bill running for sate senator makes absolutely no sense! Everyone in America knows that if you're going to run for office, every crack and crevice of your life, and the lives of everyone around you, will be examined, invaded and put out for public scrutiny. Bill's idea that he will become a Senator so that their lifestyle can be brought out into the open completely contradicts the fact that he's trying desperately to keep it hidden in order to run for office. Basically, he's gonna lie to win, and then expect everyone to embrace him when he reveals the big lie? And everyone around him is saying, "go, Bill"? This is just crazy as a storyline.

I can't understand why people are puzzled by the kiss between Margene and Ben. The reason for it was very clear. Margene was in a situation wherein everyone in the family she had given up so much for didn't see that her success was important for them to acknowledge. That Ben showed up and didn't leave her alone during her moment to shine made her "love" him. And Margene being Margene she expressed that by kissing him. Who wouldn't love the person that showed up and proved how important you were to them?