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The Falling Away by Ron Graham

rollinTHUNDER

Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

rollinTHUNDER

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Location:Between Daytona Beach & St. Augustine, Florida

Sonseeahray

It all goes back to Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for your people (Daniels people Israel) and your holy city (Dainels holy city Jerusalem) to: .... The first 69 weeks were all about Israel, the 70th week is all about Israel. Matt 24:15 is the direct reference from Daniel 9:27. Abomination that cause desolation. This departure from Judea has nothing to due with Christians, but only to those of Israel, Daniels people.

And again the Shekinah Glory left the Temple (Holy of Holies) in 33 AD, at Christs death when the veil split from top to bottom opening up the Holy of Holies to the inner court. The High Priest no longer had access to the Holy of Holies, because Jesus Christ became our High Priest. The Holy of Holies became empty when the veil was split. No more Shekinah Glory residing there.

This is basic Church Doctrine. For if the Shekinah Glory still resided in the Holy of Holies in the Temple beyond 33 AD, Christ was then not our High Priest. Christians would then need to go through the Jewish High Priest, Which is not Biblical.

In ChristMontana Marv

It all goes back to Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for your people (Daniels people Israel) and your holy city (Dainels holy city Jerusalem) to: .... The first 69 weeks were all about Israel, the 70th week is all about Israel. Matt 24:15 is the direct reference from Daniel 9:27. Abomination that cause desolation. This departure from Judea has nothing to due with Christians, but only to those of Israel, Daniels people.

Hi Marv,

I certainly agree that Daniel's descendants are Jews, but it would be very difficult, if not impossible to prove your statement above. Christ and His disciples were Daniel's descendants and the first to be converted almost 2000 years ago. But there are still Christians living in Israel today, and the ones that will escape are the ones that heed His words to flee to the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation. The secular Jews will not be following His commands or studying His word, but those who are will know what time it is.

I see nothing about Marv's statement except, I think, that the Shekinah left Judah a lot earlier than 33AD. The parting of the veil has nothing to do with the glory departing, but that the way to God is now open to all who go through Jesus Christ.

Where do you, 'rollinTHUNDER', get that Christ and his disciples were Daniel's descendants? That is strange doctrine to me.

Hi He giveth more grace,

Daniel was given a prophecy hundreds of years before Christ came. He told us about the abomination of desolation, which Christ was referring to in Matthew 24:15. Daniel, a Jew who was exiled to Babylon, was told that the children of his people (Jewish descendants) would be delivered after the abomination of desolation, every one whose name is found written in the book. This abomination of desolation (Dan.11:31-36) has still not been fulfilled yet. Neither has the following:

Daniel 12:1-4And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

So Daniel was very concerned about his people, Jews living back in his homeland in Israel, but he did not understand how far into the future this prophecy would extend. He also knew very little about the anointed one (Messiah), the coming prince that would be cut off after 69 weeks and have nothing. He had no way of knowing that Christ was going to die for the sins of the world, be resurrected and return approximately 2000 years or so later. There were many things he did not know, which is why I believe he was told to shut up the words to this prophecy, because the words were sealed up to the time of the end. He wanted to know more, but:

Daniel 12:8-13And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.[10] Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.[12] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.[13] But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Montana Marv

Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

Montana Marv

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He Giveth More Grace

So you believe that the High Priest who went into the Holy of Holies one time per year to ask for forgiveness of Israels sins was empty and no one heard him. He had no threat of death if he had sin while he was in the Holy of Holies. It was the custom to tie a rope to the High Priests foot. If God did not accept the sin offering, the High Priest died in the Holy of Holies. Only one indivdual could go behind the veil into the Holy of Holies, and that only one time per year. He was the Jewish High Priest.

But acording to the Perterest view (Sonseeahray and others), the Shekinah Glory stayed in the Temple until 70 AD. But the veil split opening up the Holy of Holies to the inner court and to us.

So you believe that the High Priest who went into the Holy of Holies one time per year to ask for forgiveness of Israels sins was empty and no one heard him. He had no threat of death if he had sin while he was in the Holy of Holies. It was the custom to tie a rope to the High Priests foot. If God did not accept the sin offering, the High Priest died in the Holy of Holies. Only one indivdual could go behind the veil into the Holy of Holies, and that only one time per year. He was the Jewish High Priest.

But acording to the Perterest view (Sonseeahray and others), the Shekinah Glory stayed in the Temple until 70 AD. But the veil split opening up the Holy of Holies to the inner court and to us.

In ChristMontana Marv

What part of "earlier than 33 AD" don't you understand? I said that I believe the the Shekinah left earlier than 33 AD. The tearing of the Veil was to show that the entrance to holy God was open to all, not that the Glory was departed.

Also. the High Priest didn't ask for forgiven for the sins of the people of Israel, he sprinkled the Mercy Seat with blood taken from a sacrifice from the altar to atone for the sins of his people.

Brother, if you don't understand it this time I am going to start worrying about you.

Montana Marv

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

Montana Marv

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He Giveth More Grace

So you believe that the High Priest who went into the Holy of Holies one time per year to ask for forgiveness of Israels sins was empty and no one heard him. He had no threat of death if he had sin while he was in the Holy of Holies. It was the custom to tie a rope to the High Priests foot. If God did not accept the sin offering, the High Priest died in the Holy of Holies. Only one indivdual could go behind the veil into the Holy of Holies, and that only one time per year. He was the Jewish High Priest.

But acording to the Perterest view (Sonseeahray and others), the Shekinah Glory stayed in the Temple until 70 AD. But the veil split opening up the Holy of Holies to the inner court and to us.

In ChristMontana Marv

What part of "earlier than 33 AD" don't you understand? I said that I believe the the Shekinah left earlier than 33 AD. The tearing of the Veil was to show that the entrance to holy God was open to all, not that the Glory was departed.

Also. the High Priest didn't ask for forgiven for the sins of the people of Israel, he sprinkled the Mercy Seat with blood taken from a sacrifice from the altar to atone for the sins of his people.

Correct, but only one time a year and this on the Day of Atonement. Were there sins forgiven? Without the shedding of blood there is no remisssion of sin. If your sin has been atoned for it has be forgiven. Terminology.

Brother, if you don't understand it this time I am going to start worrying about you.

Earilier can mean 5 AD or 22 AD, Be more specific.

Where was the Shekinah Glory located in the Temple? Who had access to it?

According to Exodus 40:34 - The Shekinah Glory resided in the Tabernacle (Holy of Holies - Most Holy Place - where the Ark of the Covenant resided) It was protected by a veil from the holy place. When the Shekinah glory lifted, the Isralites could break down camp and move. When Christ ascended on high (He was the Shekinah Glory of the OT), The Atonement process changed. No longer were the blood of animals sufficent; The true Lamb was slain. The veil was split, All can go in. The Shekinah Glory was replaced by the Holy Spirit.

Where was the Shekinah Glory located in the Temple? Who had access to it?

According to Exodus 40:34 - The Shekinah Glory resided in the Tabernacle (Holy of Holies - Most Holy Place - where the Ark of the Covenant resided) It was protected by a veil from the holy place. When the Shekinah glory lifted, the Isralites could break down camp and move. When Christ ascended on high (He was the Shekinah Glory of the OT), The Atonement process changed. No longer were the blood of animals sufficent; The true Lamb was slain. The veil was split, All can go in. The Shekinah Glory was replaced by the Holy Spirit.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The Shekinah was replaced by the Holy Spirit? Not even going to address that, except to say what do you think the Shekinah was - or who?

Joshua-777

Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

Interests:Learning to love Jesus with all my heart, soul, and mind, and learning to love my neighbor as myself.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.

Matthew 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

I think it's a perversion to think a shrinking powerless Church is a comforting sign that Jesus is coming back soon. He's coming back for a glorious bride, and He promises that the gates of hell will not previal against her.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

Ephesians 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

As far as my view on rapture, I belive when He appears to the world, we shall be like Him. I think we will be here for the tribulation, but I believe we are going to shine gloriously bright through this period. There is going to be war, famine, sickness, and death released but we have a God who multiplies food, who heals the sick, who raises the dead and I believe the Church will demonstate that during this time.

Marlene S

Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

Marlene S

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Location:Canada

I think that as Scriptures tell us, in the last days knowledge shall increase...and that is because of the 144,000 who will be running to and fro across the world and everyone will hear of the gospel.
Concerning the falling away of Christians in the last days, I really believe that many will become disappointed in the Church because of a very important truth which is misinterpreted. This is about the Rapture of the Church. The Church is snatched away, and Christians believe that one moment they will be here and then the next moment they are gone.

I think that this is a false interpretation. The church is made up of Angels, Spirits. and when the rapture occurs, it is not the living soul that is snatched away, but the spirit or angel which is within the saved Christian.
Two will be sleeping in a bed, one is taken the other left...the two represents, the soul and the spirit. The spirit is taken and the body is left behind, for the resurrection and the appearance of the Lord.

Think on it... How would Christians feel when the Anti-Christ is in power and they are still here? Betrayed, because they live with the hope of being removed from the Earth before these things occur. Many will stop believing because they will feel that they were lied to by the Christian Ministry.