I would have mentioned that monkeys also seem to appreciate the divine, have empathy for others, and similar traits that Robinson implies only humans have.

I also would have said that all we are is emergent behavior that has acquired to realize that we are nothing more than emergent behavior. Empathy is an emergent behavior in many animal species (some might go so far as to say "less so in humans than some other animals"). And that, not a morality (universal or otherwise) is what we derive the desire to not commit acts that would be socially frowned upon.

Finally, I would have mentioned that the society in which one lives much more determines morality than any innate or universal morality.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

Just the general (and rather vague) category of religion? Not a specific religion, let alone a specific branch of whichever one is under discussion?

Seems to me that an argument for or against "religion is force for good" would have to address a specific religion; otherwise there would be too many exceptions for the argument to get anywhere.

Henry

You also need to be specific as to what "a force of good" means. Does that mean it is all what is commonly perceived as good, or does it count if there is good and bad, but overall it leans one way or another? What is also considered good in one culture or context might not be in another. Such arguments as these are fairly meaningless, IMO, although they can be fun to listen to or participate in.

--------------"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

Obviously, I'm slightly biased, but I think Hitchens won both debates.

Dembski... well...

Blair, at least has sincerity and is actively 'working' in Africa. However, he fails to grasp the dichotomy that Hitchens kept pointing out.

If religion wasn't telling those people to not use condoms and that having AIDS was better in God's sight than using condoms... then all the great work that the religion does in Africa wouldn't be needed in the first place.

I submit that people who do good works would do them regardless of religion (or lack thereof). Perhaps there would be fewer people, because without the fear of hell, some of them would sit at home instead of going to Zimbabwe or something.

I'd rather have an honest jerk than a hypocritical nice person.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

Obviously, I'm slightly biased, but I think Hitchens won both debates.

Dembski... well...

Blair, at least has sincerity and is actively 'working' in Africa. However, he fails to grasp the dichotomy that Hitchens kept pointing out.

If religion wasn't telling those people to not use condoms and that having AIDS was better in God's sight than using condoms... then all the great work that the religion does in Africa wouldn't be needed in the first place.

I submit that people who do good works would do them regardless of religion (or lack thereof). Perhaps there would be fewer people, because without the fear of hell, some of them would sit at home instead of going to Zimbabwe or something.

I'd rather have an honest jerk than a hypocritical nice person.

I agree. IMO Hitchens won. However the vote indicated a draw. Both Blair and Hitchens persuaded a roughly similar percentage to their cause. Dembski was crap.

I am not saying that Blair convinced me. I am just saying that according to the vote. Blair and Hitchens persuaded a roughly = amount to vote their way.

The thing about religion, at least from my neck of the woods (The Bible Belt)... is that so many people grow up with religion. They see all the good things that 'the church' does and anything bad is 'the person'.

So many people grow up this way that any positive support that they uncritically accept it. Fortunately, many of the my generation are walking away from the church of their parents, mainly because it isn't relevant and obviously so. The average age in my old church was 54. There were multiple Sunday school classes for the over 80 crowd. I'm hopeful that our children will grow up respectful of the church... in the same way you respect that crazy guy down the street.

While I enjoyed Hitchens, I would have said some other things that may have emphasized the point more.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

The thing about religion, at least from my neck of the woods (The Bible Belt)... is that so many people grow up with religion. They see all the good things that 'the church' does and anything bad is 'the person'...

Got to agree with that. It is pretty much how I thought when I was religious.

Prior to the debate, 25% of the 2,600 audience members agreed with the motion, while 55% disagreed, and 20% were undecided.

The audience vote immediately following the debate showed that Christopher Hitchens won the debate, by a hair, by garnering 13% of the previously undecided vote versus 7% for Tony Blair. The final results for the second audience vote on the motion were 32% in agreement and 68% opposed. To access a detailed report on the results click here.

It may be time to notify his ISP about his behaviour. If ISP's still care about such things.

--------------"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad