Well actually Quran says if nonbelievers want to fight with Muslims,then you have to fight back but not transgress,because God doesn't like transgressors.Killing anyone (whether Muslim or non-Muslim) without any reason in Islam is a crime and will only face one punishment : Death Sentence.

Well,Bible is a book full of peaceful teachings,and I am sure that in this part it is only talking about defense,not killing anyone who doesn't follow God's law.

Maybe, and in the Bible and Quran supposedly both speak against the act of killing, hurting someone for being a non-believer, whatever reason not right, and self-righteousness. But in the case of the Quran it has no New Testament to speak out against the violence, and technically the Quran like and unlike the Bible in many ways encourages violence, the extremists are actually living out how Islam is and was centuries ago, whereas Christians were given a New Testament and split from the Jews.

Maybe, and in the Bible and Quran supposedly both speak against the act of killing, hurting someone for being a non-believer, whatever reason not right, and self-righteousness. But in the case of the Quran it has no New Testament to speak out against the violence, and technically the Quran like and unlike the Bible in many ways encourages violence, the extremists are actually living out how Islam is and was centuries ago, whereas Christians were given a New Testament and split from the Jews.

The extremists even don't know how Islam was in the past,so they cannot live in the way which Islam was.They even do not listen to Quran itself while they are claiming that they are acting according to it.

Islam has ordered Muslims to follow teachings of Quran,and one of the teachings of Quran is to listen to "Family of Muhammad" who are simply called "Ahl al Beit",means "Members of the Household".This includes "Sovereignty" and "Leadership".Quran itself is not enough alone,because not all details are mentioned in it.

Quran is a book of general laws but for details,you have to go to "Prophet-line quotes and behavior" and "Members of the Household" and after all of them,to reliable "Faqihs" who are permitted to issue "Fatwas" which are religious commands.For example in the past Muslims were allowed to possess weapons in an Islamic country,but now according to the Fatwas which have been issued by Faqihs,possession of any kind of weapon is not permitted anymore and it is forbidden for Muslims to have weapons,except governmental forces and those who are involved in security and military.

The Members of the household were actually fourteen persons who were Muhammad's daughter Fatima,and her husband Ali,and their sons Hassan and Husein,and after them Husein's descendants to the last of them Mahdi.

Most of those extremists whom now you see them in groups like ISIL and Al-Qaeda,believe that they only have to do what is written in Quran in text and follow those priests who believe Quran alone is enough (while they are not even doing what the texts of Quran have ordered them) and no Prophet-line quotes and Members of the Household are needed.It means that they don't recognize "Leadership" and "Sovereignty" as two other pillars of Islam,but even as heretical teachings which have to completely removed.

This is why Shias (especially) and Sunnis who don't agree with them are considered as their arch-enemies and will be slaughtered anywhere they find them.

They are against science,which Quran has ordered exactly in reverse by telling Muslims to search in the universe and study and learn,because learning is one of the ways of absolute praying of God.They believe that everyone has to obey God without thinking about it and otherwise should be killed,while Quran has told there is no forced conversion in religion and people have to accept religions with their hearts and minds and only those who think will get what Islam has to say.

There are many other evidences which prove that extremists are acting exactly against what Quran has told them and not according to it,and this is why majority of Muslim scholars in whole world do not consider them as Muslims,and insist on their immediate destruction.

The extremists even don't know how Islam was in the past,so they cannot live in the way which Islam was.They even do not listen to Quran itself while they are claiming that they are acting according to it.

Islam has ordered Muslims to follow teachings of Quran,and one of the teachings of Quran is to listen to "Family of Muhammad" who are simply called "Ahl al Beit",means "Members of the Household".This includes "Sovereignty" and "Leadership".Quran itself is not enough alone,because not all details are mentioned in it.

Quran is a book of general laws but for details,you have to go to "Prophet-line quotes and behavior" and "Members of the Household" and after all of them,to reliable "Faqihs" who are permitted to issue "Fatwas" which are religious commands.For example in the past Muslims were allowed to possess weapons in an Islamic country,but now according to the Fatwas which have been issued by Faqihs,possession of any kind of weapon is not permitted anymore and it is forbidden for Muslims to have weapons,except governmental forces and those who are involved in security and military.

The Members of the household were actually fourteen persons who were Muhammad's daughter Fatima,and her husband Ali,and their sons Hassan and Husein,and after them Husein's descendants to the last of them Mahdi.

Most of those extremists whom now you see them in groups like ISIL and Al-Qaeda,believe that they only have to do what is written in Quran in text and follow those priests who believe Quran alone is enough (while they are not even doing what the texts of Quran have ordered them) and no Prophet-line quotes and Members of the Household are needed.It means that they don't recognize "Leadership" and "Sovereignty" as two other pillars of Islam,but even as heretical teachings which have to completely removed.

This is why Shias (especially) and Sunnis who don't agree with them are considered as their arch-enemies and will be slaughtered anywhere they find them.

They are against science,which Quran has ordered exactly in reverse by telling Muslims to search in the universe and study and learn,because learning is one of the ways of absolute praying of God.They believe that everyone has to obey God without thinking about it and otherwise should be killed,while Quran has told there is no forced conversion in religion and people have to accept religions with their hearts and minds and only those who think will get what Islam has to say.

There are many other evidences which prove that extremists are acting exactly against what Quran has told them and not according to it,and this is why majority of Muslim scholars in whole world do not consider them as Muslims,and insist on their immediate destruction.

I could have said the same things on Christianity but none of that changes what is in the Bible. What you just said gave me the Western understanding and gloss-over of Islam, but even you admitted that there is violence in the Quran that terrorists are living out. Didn't Muhammad have a less than gracious marriage? You see it in the past and you see it happening now. Are you willing to stop the extremists? What do you do about the extreme views in your religion? You can ignore them but wouldn't that be acting as a hypocrite? Even with me I know the Bible has many flaws and old teachings now outdated but over the years Christianity and Christians have had no choice but to adapt and adopt new ideas which for the better make it where extreme views in God's name are not to be tolerated whatsoever. But of course no one cares about that, they just look at the grime and see some religions as a race and some as a cult.

I could have said the same things on Christianity but none of that changes what is in the Bible. What you just said gave me the Western understanding and gloss-over of Islam, but even you admitted that there is violence in the Quran that terrorists are living out. Didn't Muhammad have a less than gracious marriage? You see it in the past and you see it happening now. Are you willing to stop the extremists? What do you do about the extreme views in your religion? You can ignore them but wouldn't that be acting as a hypocrite? Even with me I know the Bible has many flaws and old teachings now outdated but over the years Christianity and Christians have had no choice but to adapt and adopt new ideas which for the better make it where extreme views in God's name are not to be tolerated whatsoever. But of course no one cares about that, they just look at the grime and see some religions as a race and some as a cult.

Well,first of all you have to know that most of Muhammad's marriages were political,especially with Aisha daughter of Abu Bakr and Muhammad was always kind and generous toward his wives not like men who never care about their spouses.Second,what extreme views do you think Islam has and about what?Today's terrorists are acting only according to a really gross philosophy which was established about 100 years ago and at the same time when Saudi Arabia was established : "Wahhabism".

Islam's minor laws are changeable as I said,there are only major laws which can never change.So this means that Islam can change too.

Well,first of all you have to know that most of Muhammad's marriages were political,especially with Aisha daughter of Abu Bakr and Muhammad was always kind and generous toward his wives not like men who never care about their spouses.Second,what extreme views do you think Islam has and about what?Today's terrorists are acting only according to a really gross philosophy which was established about 100 years ago and at the same time when Saudi Arabia was established : "Wahhabism".

Islam's minor laws are changeable as I said,there are only major laws which can never change.So this means that Islam can change too.

Islam has many scriptures that have been time and time again lived out now and then against non-believers. Also look at all the crimes need I bring up the Crusades? That affected both histories. And I am referring to the fact that Muhammad married a young underage girl and the fact that in Islam women are property and how in Muslim countries minorities are persecuted if not killed, how you can killed simply for being gay. Where in the Quran does it say to treat all fairly and to treat gays with love? Are we not all people? Why are you justifying terrorist's ideas? If you're not then it is coming across that way. And the "gross" philosophy has yet to die. Islam won't change, it hasn't for hundreds of years.

Also look at all the crimes need I bring up the Crusades? That affected both histories.

I really didn't get what you said.

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And I am referring to the fact that Muhammad married a young underage girl

Different sources say different things about that girl who was Aisha Bint Abu Bakr but it is completely clear that she was between 13-15 when she gave birth which by standards of those times was not underage.Christians and Jews and Hindus and Zoroastrians used to marry girls between 10-15 in those times and in those areas too.Also,I suggest you to study a little more about Aisha and how she was treated by Muhammad.

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and the fact that in Islam women are property

In Islam women are not properties;there is no proof about it neither in Quran neither in Prophet-line quotes.Why do you say they are properties in Islam?

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and how in Muslim countries minorities are persecuted if not killed

In Islam,all religions are allowed to be practiced freely and Muslims are ordered by Quran to treat non-Muslims respectively and be fair with them.But they are not allowed to disturb the rest of the societies and try to fight against Islamic Social Laws.Why do you say they are persecuted?Please explain.

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how you can killed simply for being gay.

Well,this is something which should be expanded a little more.In Quran,it has never been said to kill Homosexuals,but just has been said that it is a sin.

In Islam,not all homosexuals are ordered to be killed,because it is their private lives and doesn't concern others.But if that person tries to disturb the society by shouting his sexual statues into it where most of the population are against it,well it's not just a sin anymore,it is crime.Let me just say this simply:If a person is homosexual,none of our business and none of our government's;If he tries to shout it in public where most of people are against it,then it means that he is trying to make tensions among people,so the majority simply ask their government to deal with it.

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Where in the Quran does it say to treat all fairly and to treat gays with love?

Where in it does it say to treat straights all fairly and with love?Treating people in general with love and fair is ordered by Quran,regardless of their religion,their sexuality and their political and social ideas.

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Are we not all people?

We are all people,but don't you agree that if I respect you you have to respect me too?If you respect me and I don't respect you,then we will have a conflict.This is exactly like this.

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Why are you justifying terrorist's ideas?

I'm not.

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If you're not then it is coming across that way. And the "gross" philosophy has yet to die. Islam won't change, it hasn't for hundreds of years

It has changed.Many of Islamic Social laws have changed throughout centuries,but main pillars haven't.

Different sources say different things about that girl who was Aisha Bint Abu Bakr but it is completely clear that she was between 13-15 when she gave birth which by standards of those times was not underage.Christians and Jews and Hindus and Zoroastrians used to marry girls between 10-15 in those times and in those areas too.Also,I suggest you to study a little more about Aisha and how she was treated by Muhammad.

In Islam women are not properties;there is no proof about it neither in Quran neither in Prophet-line quotes.Why do you say they are properties in Islam?

In Islam,all religions are allowed to be practiced freely and Muslims are ordered by Quran to treat non-Muslims respectively and be fair with them.But they are not allowed to disturb the rest of the societies and try to fight against Islamic Social Laws.Why do you say they are persecuted?Please explain.

Well,this is something which should be expanded a little more.In Quran,it has never been said to kill Homosexuals,but just has been said that it is a sin.

In Islam,not all homosexuals are ordered to be killed,because it is their private lives and doesn't concern others.But if that person tries to disturb the society by shouting his sexual statues into it where most of the population are against it,well it's not just a sin anymore,it is crime.Let me just say this simply:If a person is homosexual,none of our business and none of our government's;If he tries to shout it in public where most of people are against it,then it means that he is trying to make tensions among people,so the majority simply ask their government to deal with it.

Where in it does it say to treat straights all fairly and with love?Treating people in general with love and fair is ordered by Quran,regardless of their religion,their sexuality and their political and social ideas.

We are all people,but don't you agree that if I respect you you have to respect me too?If you respect me and I don't respect you,then we will have a conflict.This is exactly like this.

I'm not.

It has changed.Many of Islamic Social laws have changed throughout centuries,but main pillars haven't.

I think what you missed is how bad minorities (not just be race) have it in Muslim countries. The Quran has many scriptures on how infidels shall be killed in the name of Allah. That's scary. And usually in Islam it is not about respect. Not here at least. In my area the Muslims were once a peaceful minority, now the tables are turning fast and the communities are scared. You seem like a Western Muslim, peaceful and thinking your faith is flawless, but I know the truth, you here of it everyday. I respect you, just I have problems with the faith.

I think what you missed is how bad minorities (not just be race) have it in Muslim countries. The Quran has many scriptures on how infidels shall be killed in the name of Allah. That's scary. And usually in Islam it is not about respect. Not here at least. In my area the Muslims were once a peaceful minority, now the tables are turning fast and the communities are scared. You seem like a Western Muslim, peaceful and thinking your faith is flawless, but I know the truth, you here of it everyday. I respect you, just I have problems with the faith.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but Christianity is responsible for just as much violence, death, war, and bloodshed as Islam.

~No really, I love capitalistic markets, I just think we should consider letting the workers seize the means of production.~

I said both have violent pasts but you can't ignore either nor can you ignore how Islam is being used now.

I'm not ignoring the harm caused by Islam. It's responsible for all sorts of bad shit and human rights abuses. But so is Christianity, which is why you really shouldn't criticize others for being muslim.

~No really, I love capitalistic markets, I just think we should consider letting the workers seize the means of production.~

I'm not ignoring the harm caused by Islam. It's responsible for all sorts of bad shit and human rights abuses. But so is Christianity, which is why you really shouldn't criticize others for being muslim.

Perhaps but there isn't some Christian Taliban now is there? You can be Muslim, but that doesn't mean I have to like Islam. And there is criticism and then there is bringing up the facts. I know people like to hold Christendom for it's past crimes but whenever a current crime happens in any other faith not just Islam, somehow the blame goes to Christians again even when we were just as lost on the ordeal as the victims.

I think what you missed is how bad minorities (not just be race) have it in Muslim countries.

Minorities may not be treated well by some Muslims in many Muslim countries,but it's not because of religion.

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The Quran has many scriptures on how infidels shall be killed in the name of Allah. That's scary.

Yes,but in those same scriptures it is said that "Only fight and kill those who want to fight you and don't transgress" and "Killing one innocent human,regardless of their faith,is killing whole humanity".Those infidels who have to be killed according to Quran,are those who intend to transgress an Islamic nation.We have three types of non-Muslims according to Islamic teachings:

1-Aggressive non-Muslims
2-Neutral non-Muslims
3-Interior non-Muslims

1.Aggressive non-Muslims are armed non-Muslims who have forced a war on a Muslim nation and intend to invade it.These non-Muslims have to be fought,and these are those infidels whom Quran has ordered Muslims to fight and kill unless they stop attacking.This is self-defense.

Most of the times,the verses of Quran which order Muslims to fight infidels and kill them are referring to Arab Pagans who were fighting Islam in first years of preaching.

2-Neutral non-Muslims are non-Muslims who don't have any hostility with Islamic countries and Islam has permitted Muslims to make friends with them,trade with them and in special conditions,ally with them;unless they change their attitude and try to fight Islamic countries.

Ethiopia was one of the first non-Muslim Kingdoms which allied with Muslims at first years of Islam and let a group of Muslim refugees to stay in there

3-Interior non-Muslims are non-Muslims who are living in an Islamic nation.Muslims are ordered to treat them with respect and fairness and let them practice their religions (if they have) freely and in return,they are supposed to respect Islamic Social laws of the majority and not break them.

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And usually in Islam it is not about respect.Not here at least

It is.

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In my area the Muslims were once a peaceful minority, now the tables are turning fast and the communities are scared.

Why?

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You seem like a Western Muslim, peaceful and thinking your faith is flawless, but I know the truth, you here of it everyday.

I am a completely typical Middle Eastern Muslim.I believe every faith is flawless,whether it is Islam or any other faith,but these are bad followers who make a faith look bad or good,not the faith itself.

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I respect you, just I have problems with the faith.

I respect you too,but I can't agree with your views on faith.This is why I'm not holding Christianity responsible for the crimes and murders which so-called Christians committed against others,whether Jews or Muslims or Zoroastrians or Pagans or Christians themselves.I simply cannot accept your logic for criticizing faiths.

whenever a current crime happens in any other faith not just Islam, somehow the blame goes to Christians again even when we were just as lost on the ordeal as the victims.

This is simply not true.
Whenever a muslim terrorist attack happens, the responsible muslims are blamed.
Not christianity.
There is literaly no reason to feel as victim to this, as it just doesn't happen.

Minorities may not be treated well by some Muslims in many Muslim countries,but it's not because of religion.

Yes,but in those same scriptures it is said that "Only fight and kill those who want to fight you and don't transgress" and "Killing one innocent human,regardless of their faith,is killing whole humanity".Those infidels who have to be killed according to Quran,are those who intend to transgress an Islamic nation.We have three types of non-Muslims according to Islamic teachings:

1-Aggressive non-Muslims
2-Neutral non-Muslims
3-Interior non-Muslims

1.Aggressive non-Muslims are armed non-Muslims who have forced a war on a Muslim nation and intend to invade it.These non-Muslims have to be fought,and these are those infidels whom Quran has ordered Muslims to fight and kill unless they stop attacking.This is self-defense.

Most of the times,the verses of Quran which order Muslims to fight infidels and kill them are referring to Arab Pagans who were fighting Islam in first years of preaching.

2-Neutral non-Muslims are non-Muslims who don't have any hostility with Islamic countries and Islam has permitted Muslims to make friends with them,trade with them and in special conditions,ally with them;unless they change their attitude and try to fight Islamic countries.

Ethiopia was one of the first non-Muslim Kingdoms which allied with Muslims at first years of Islam and let a group of Muslim refugees to stay in there

3-Interior non-Muslims are non-Muslims who are living in an Islamic nation.Muslims are ordered to treat them with respect and fairness and let them practice their religions (if they have) freely and in return,they are supposed to respect Islamic Social laws of the majority and not break them.

It is.

Why?

I am a completely typical Middle Eastern Muslim.I believe every faith is flawless,whether it is Islam or any other faith,but these are bad followers who make a faith look bad or good,not the faith itself.

I respect you too,but I can't agree with your views on faith.This is why I'm not holding Christianity responsible for the crimes and murders which so-called Christians committed against others,whether Jews or Muslims or Zoroastrians or Pagans or Christians themselves.I simply cannot accept your logic for criticizing faiths.

People blame Christians for the crimes in the past. I'm blaming Muslims for the crimes of today since no Muslims are speaking out against this crime. And besides, given how the Muslim religion is just simply not tolerant of others and has not been for centuries ergo the fighting in the Middle East, it'll implode one day. And no faith is flawless. Every faith has flaws be it in the person or the history. The flaws of Islam are advocating of violence, the flaws of Christianity is the vast number of false-titles and old versus new contradictory verses. It's all written in stone. You can't rewrite the Quran and you're not supposed to either. I have read the Quran numerous times, and let me just say, it is a very scary read indeed at all the hatred it has to non-Muslims. It is fine if you are a convert but we can't all be Muslim. Terrorists are looking at that part. Technically you can't be Muslim if you are going to ignore half of the Quran, then what are you left with? And to reinstate, no faith is flawless, at some point the religion may have been but now they are all humanly corrupt.

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Originally Posted by cheesee

This is simply not true.
Whenever a muslim terrorist attack happens, the responsible muslims are blamed.
Not christianity.
There is literaly no reason to feel as victim to this, as it just doesn't happen.

Yes it is true. No one wants to acknowledge the violence in the Middle East because it puts blame on a group people are considering a peaceful ethnicity, the Muslims, but this is not right. And yes people do blame Christianity for everything. No religion is flawless and at this rate no one and I mean no one is willing to respect any religion anymore. Everyone is always believe this or that, if you speak of it then you're an extremist. There are victims in the Middle East now, getting beheaded and killed. And for what? In the name of Allah these people are dying while the rest of the world twiddles it's fingers. If this keeps up then the Middle East will be the birth of WW3.

Yes it is true... No one wants to acknowledge the violence in the Middle East... And yes people do blame Christianity for everything... no one is willing to respect any religion anymore.... Everyone is always believe this or... that,

With the amount of everything, all, everyone and always in that argument I find it hard to even take it seriously concidering it goes beyond my post.
I'm simply saying, after an attack where muslims are behind it, muslims are blamed.
Christians were not blamed for 9/11. Christians are NOT blamed for muslim terrorists attacks.
Saying they are sounds unreasonable and incredibly far fetched since there's no example of evidence given.
I'm sorry but it's just not true. I'm not choosing sides here, at the moment islam causes more violence and death and it's followers are violent and in lack of better words evil;
and when they do something, they are blamed.
Not christians.
Please, stop feeling like being a christian automaticaly makes you a target, beacuse the only thing that causes that is saying so.