Mostly it's the Emperor deciding WHEN various aspects of the law go into effect - and delaying the implementation of certain provisions, such as the employer mandate, to buy more time because no one is certain what the law means or how it will be enforced.

Funny, because about 3 years ago I was very much in favor of universal health care. Now, it seems as if the confederacy of dunces (on both sides of the aisle) are conspiring to completely fuck the entire population.

I'm just curious as to what madness or strange drug could have driven the Republicans to this current situation. To completely ignore the fact the ACA is here to stay while wasting time and money trying in vain to repeal it, is pretty much the actual definition of insanity.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm just curious as to what madness or strange drug could have driven the Republicans to this current situation. To completely ignore the fact the ACA is here to stay while wasting time and money trying in vain to repeal it, is pretty much the actual definition of insanity.

CDT, I don't think the Republicans' approach has anything to do with madness or drug-addled brains or insanity. I think they are just tired of taking shit from Obama and his henchmen. They've glommed onto the ACA and debt ceiling issues (and for at least half of America, they are THE issues) as a way to regain some "face" after having Obama rub theirs in the mud for most all of his reign. There is just so much real animosity in Washington today that BOTH parties are losing the ability to govern.

A real leader would get Boehner and Pelosi and McConnell and Reid in the Oval Office, attempt to broker a compromise, and tell the four of them that they could not leave the room until they reached some kind of agreement. But, unfortunately for all of America, Obama does not recognize that he's the leader of ALL of us, not just the Dems.

What I'm saying is that it's not just Tea Party's or the Republicans' fault, no matter what the media would have you believe. It is the fault of 536 people in Washington: Congress, the Senate and the President. They all share equal guilt.

CDT, I don't think the Republicans' approach has anything to do with madness or drug-addled brains or insanity. I think they are just tired of taking shit from Obama and his henchmen

Those vicious henchmen that want to see the law passed by congress and upheld by the USSC go into effect. What rotten bastards. Never mind the time and money wasted on those 40 pointless repeal votes. Doing the same dumb thing 40 times when you know the result.... that's insanity.

A real leader would get Boehner and Pelosi and McConnell and Reid in the Oval Office, attempt to broker a compromise

Which he has done..... multiple times, including having Boehner in last week and calling him this morning. The "compromise" for the Republicans is shredding the ACA and holding the country hostage if the knee isn't bent. They made good on the latter, which makes them look stupid and callous.

What I'm saying is that it's not just Tea Party's or the Republicans' fault, no matter what the media would have you believe.

Okay, all you Brick Wall libs out there. You're 100% correct. We've elected ourselves a bunch of moronic, dead-headed, insane Republicans to Congress. The mess the country's in is totally their fault. No sense trying to cast any aspersions on the words or actions of the Democrats or our Anointed One, who cannot do anything wrong. You've won me over.

This notion that somehow the Democrats have to yield to the minority and compromise is the whole point of this shitfest. When your 3-year-old refuses to go to bed unless he gets a cookie...no sane parent would give in to that!

If the Dems give one inch right now the Tea Party is gonna deploy this tactic EVERY SINGLE TIME. A line in the sand has been drawn here, and I'm glad the Dems are sticking to their guns and telling these petulant children to go to bed.

bookelly wrote:This notion that somehow the Democrats have to yield to the minority and compromise is the whole point of this shitfest. When your 3-year-old refuses to go to bed unless he gets a cookie...no sane parent would give in to that!

If the Dems give one inch right now the Tea Party is gonna deploy this tactic EVERY SINGLE TIME. A line in the sand has been drawn here, and I'm glad the Dems are sticking to their guns and telling these petulant children to go to bed.

With an attitude like that, you should be a U.S. Senator or Congressman, because that's the exact posture that our current leaders have assumed--on both sides. There's not an adult among them, just a bunch of "petulant children" who call each other names like spoiled first-graders. This will not end well.

CDT, I don't think the Republicans' approach has anything to do with madness or drug-addled brains or insanity. I think they are just tired of taking shit from Obama and his henchmen

Those vicious henchmen that want to see the law passed by congress and upheld by the USSC go into effect. What rotten bastards. Never mind the time and money wasted on those 40 pointless repeal votes. Doing the same dumb thing 40 times when you know the result.... that's insanity.

A real leader would get Boehner and Pelosi and McConnell and Reid in the Oval Office, attempt to broker a compromise

Which he has done..... multiple times, including having Boehner in last week and calling him this morning. The "compromise" for the Republicans is shredding the ACA and holding the country hostage if the knee isn't bent. They made good on the latter, which makes them look stupid and callous.

What I'm saying is that it's not just Tea Party's or the Republicans' fault, no matter what the media would have you believe.

Yes it is. Pass a clean bill and none of this happens.

Not an excuse, rationalization, or any attempt to defend Republican assclowns. Just my POV (again, from someone who wanted health care reform)

ACA was rammed through the House and Senate without a single Republican yes vote. 34 Dems crossed over in the House vote. Both sides were completely unreasonable in their approach.

Some Republican dude in Mass was elected to Ted Kennedy's Senate seat after he died. His sole message was he would be the guy to block a Senate filibuster. Republican replaces a Kennedy in Massachusetts and Massholes vote him in because he ran against ACA.

The President kept repeating again and again "This is not a tax"Supreme Court - It's unconstitutionalThe President - I guess it's a tax then (this is my major complaint)

I could go on and on about the number of states (in which the majority of the uninsured live) that have opted out of the Medicaid expansion and the coverage gap that creates, the delays, the tax increase, the pressure on the middle class young to fund.....it goes on and on

It may be law, but it's a fucking shitty law. Again, no excuse to keep wasting everyone's time and money to try and repeal and force a shutdown, but there some aspects of how this became law that really stink.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm just curious as to what madness or strange drug could have driven the Republicans to this current situation. To completely ignore the fact the ACA is here to stay while wasting time and money trying in vain to repeal it, is pretty much the actual definition of insanity.

The "here to stay" argument is laughable. As if laws have never been changed in this country. They may lose this battle, may lose the war, but that fucking thing can be changed or repealed.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

While I agree with you OJ, CDT is probably right, this thing is probably not changing in anyway anytime soon, even if it were an epic failure within 2 years. We just don't react quick enough in this government.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm just curious as to what madness or strange drug could have driven the Republicans to this current situation. To completely ignore the fact the ACA is here to stay while wasting time and money trying in vain to repeal it, is pretty much the actual definition of insanity.

CDT, I don't think the Republicans' approach has anything to do with madness or drug-addled brains or insanity. I think they are just tired of taking shit from Obama and his henchmen. They've glommed onto the ACA and debt ceiling issues (and for at least half of America, they are THE issues) as a way to regain some "face" after having Obama rub theirs in the mud for most all of his reign. There is just so much real animosity in Washington today that BOTH parties are losing the ability to govern.

A real leader would get Boehner and Pelosi and McConnell and Reid in the Oval Office, attempt to broker a compromise, and tell the four of them that they could not leave the room until they reached some kind of agreement. But, unfortunately for all of America, Obama does not recognize that he's the leader of ALL of us, not just the Dems.

What I'm saying is that it's not just Tea Party's or the Republicans' fault, no matter what the media would have you believe. It is the fault of 536 people in Washington: Congress, the Senate and the President. They all share equal guilt.

1. "Taking shit?" You might want to back to January 2009 and review how this all started. Unless you have an alternate usage of "taking".

2. If they really want to stop being on the receiving end, they might want to enact some policies and practices that don't tank them in the polls. They learned nothing from 2012's election. They are ensuring perpetuation of their minority party status nationally. Even from a Machiavellian standpoint they are collectively dumber than a box of hammers.

3. While I am not gonna be backed into a corner of saying Barry is a leader of any sort, didn't he try this exact same strategy in Debt ceiling Crisis I? And didn't he get a deal that Boner couldn't get through? While Barry is a fail, he looks like Geo washington compared to Boner. What's he point of bringing them together? The GOP wing nuts will compromise on exactly nothing. They are there to starve the beast.

4. 100% of this issue is on the GOP House. 100%. They are shutting down the Federal Government deliberately to starve the beat and to prevent a law from being enacted. I just wish they'd stay true and own it. They are getting what they want.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm just curious as to what madness or strange drug could have driven the Republicans to this current situation. To completely ignore the fact the ACA is here to stay while wasting time and money trying in vain to repeal it, is pretty much the actual definition of insanity.

The "here to stay" argument is laughable. As if laws have never been changed in this country. They may lose this battle, may lose the war, but that fucking thing can be changed or repealed.

Yep.

But not if some of the measures go into place and the distortions or lies are proven to be just that.

The biggest opportunity is to do that before it goes into effect and people can see reality.

Chances are some aspects will be good and stick and others suck and be repealed, and yet others will be changed for special big-monied interests.

After all the BS from all over I'd like to just see what actually happens...

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm just curious as to what madness or strange drug could have driven the Republicans to this current situation. To completely ignore the fact the ACA is here to stay while wasting time and money trying in vain to repeal it, is pretty much the actual definition of insanity.

The "here to stay" argument is laughable. As if laws have never been changed in this country. They may lose this battle, may lose the war, but that fucking thing can be changed or repealed.

0-40.

You lost the battle.

You lost the war.

You lost.

Last resort is to try and blow it all up. Of course the Republicans went with the ACME Dynamite Kit, and now it's blowing up in their faces.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm just curious as to what madness or strange drug could have driven the Republicans to this current situation. To completely ignore the fact the ACA is here to stay while wasting time and money trying in vain to repeal it, is pretty much the actual definition of insanity.

The "here to stay" argument is laughable. As if laws have never been changed in this country. They may lose this battle, may lose the war, but that fucking thing can be changed or repealed.

Yep.

But not if some of the measures go into place and the distortions or lies are proven to be just that.

The biggest opportunity is to do that before it goes into effect and people can see reality.

Chances are some aspects will be good and stick and others suck and be repealed, and yet others will be changed for special big-monied interests.

After all the BS from all over I'd like to just see what actually happens...

I can actually get to this point. As CDT says the Democrats won the election, they got their law passed. While I think it was rammed though and it is bad law I am sure there are some aspects worth looking at. To me this all boils down to how it was passed and the fact no one on the Hill really even knew what was in the thing. It is why so many exmptions are being carved out. Just too bad everyone is 100% in sticking with their guns, cuz nothing will change.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

jb wrote:4. 100% of this issue is on the GOP House. 100%. They are shutting down the Federal Government deliberately to starve the beat and to prevent a law from being enacted. I just wish they'd stay true and own it. They are getting what they want.

All that's left is to see which economists are correct.

That's just simpleton thinking jb, while you like to play one on the Interwebs I know you're not one (not that we as a board will ever give you any credit due).

If you want to quantify blame for this go ahead, the Rs definitely have to own part of this, most of it IMO. To present this as the Ds having no blame is just flat out stupidity, partisan BS and being blind (pick any of the three). The Ds/Obama are doing zip to truly resolve this and take a leadership role. The Ds, particularly Obama, are being complacent about this regarding the American people. It's actually more embarrassing for BHO simply b/c he's the POTUS and claimed to be the great uniter. LOL.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:You got a rouges' gallery of really stupid people helping drive the GOP to a staggering approval rating of 24%.

Quite the opposite. Well, sort of. Since W., the republican party has pandered to simpletons. Good move, there are a lot of them. They have split this country into 2 groups:

1. Down home folk who "trust in god", distrust brown skinded people, and despise gays and science because they believe those things stand in opposition to the teachings of a book written largely from fables passed down for hundreds of years after they took place, then edited to fit the money fueled agenda of the church.

2. Anyone who doesn't fit into group 1.

Occasionally there are those people who are fiscally conservative (a good thing) and who really oppose government interference or oversight in their daily lives (seems legit, except they pick and choose when the government can interfere).

Mostly they lack empathy. Or they make enough money not to care.

And so here we stand, with government agencies that millions depend upon shut down because the house republicans refuse to accept that the divide between themselves and a large percent of the rest of the country is real, dangerous, and the major problem we face in society.

We have no choice but to elect a member from fucked up Group A or fucked up Group B. And then we sit around and argue about who is more fucked up. Neither is more fucked up, because they are equally fucked up. It only depends on which side of the fucked upness you decide to align yourself.

Hash it out on the boards all you want...it just doesn't matter. We are fucked.

We have no choice but to elect a member from fucked up Group A or fucked up Group B. And then we sit around and argue about who is more fucked up. Neither is more fucked up, because they are equally fucked up. It only depends on which side of the fucked upness you decide to align yourself.

Hash it out on the boards all you want...it just doesn't matter. We are fucked.

I agree with all of the above, but I'm breathless at this shitshow getting more typed words out of you than the Indians birthing a fake playoff game out of wedlock did.

We have no choice but to elect a member from fucked up Group A or fucked up Group B. And then we sit around and argue about who is more fucked up. Neither is more fucked up, because they are equally fucked up. It only depends on which side of the fucked upness you decide to align yourself.

Hash it out on the boards all you want...it just doesn't matter. We are fucked.

Yeah yeah yeah...... High and holy position in the center and all that jazz.

We have no choice but to elect a member from fucked up Group A or fucked up Group B. And then we sit around and argue about who is more fucked up. Neither is more fucked up, because they are equally fucked up. It only depends on which side of the fucked upness you decide to align yourself.

Hash it out on the boards all you want...it just doesn't matter. We are fucked.

Yeah yeah yeah...... High and holy position in the center and all that jazz.

But what's your solution to us being fucked?

Um. There isn't one. Hence being fucked.

Center is not where I am. Trust me.

If the left is fucked and the right is fucked...what good would it be to be in the center? You just get fucked by both sides.

Obama and the Senate now have the chance to man up and show US how great the ACA is going to be

House Republicans plan to vote Tuesday night on a revised budget proposal that would end the partial government shutdown, raise the debt ceiling and, in a challenge to Democrats, force government officials from President Obama on down to obtain health insurance through ObamaCare.

House Speaker John Boehner's office announced late Tuesday afternoon that they would proceed with a vote. Operating on a tight timeline, lawmakers are trying to hammer out a bill before Thursday's deadline to raise the debt ceiling.

Though Republicans have considered over the last several weeks a range of provisions relating to ObamaCare, the one they settled on in this package would force Congress, the president, and many other administration officials and staff onto ObamaCare without additional subsidies. GOP lawmakers described the proposed mandate as a matter of "fairness."

"If the president and Senate Democrats are going to force the American people to live under ObamaCare, then they and all Washington leaders should not be shielded from the law," one GOP aide said.

Obama and the Senate now have the chance to man up and show US how great the ACA is going to be

House Republicans plan to vote Tuesday night on a revised budget proposal that would end the partial government shutdown, raise the debt ceiling and, in a challenge to Democrats, force government officials from President Obama on down to obtain health insurance through ObamaCare.

House Speaker John Boehner's office announced late Tuesday afternoon that they would proceed with a vote. Operating on a tight timeline, lawmakers are trying to hammer out a bill before Thursday's deadline to raise the debt ceiling.

Though Republicans have considered over the last several weeks a range of provisions relating to ObamaCare, the one they settled on in this package would force Congress, the president, and many other administration officials and staff onto ObamaCare without additional subsidies. GOP lawmakers described the proposed mandate as a matter of "fairness."

"If the president and Senate Democrats are going to force the American people to live under ObamaCare, then they and all Washington leaders should not be shielded from the law," one GOP aide said.

jb wrote:4. 100% of this issue is on the GOP House. 100%. They are shutting down the Federal Government deliberately to starve the beat and to prevent a law from being enacted. I just wish they'd stay true and own it. They are getting what they want.

All that's left is to see which economists are correct.

That's just simpleton thinking jb, while you like to play one on the Interwebs I know you're not one (not that we as a board will ever give you any credit due).

If you want to quantify blame for this go ahead, the Rs definitely have to own part of this, most of it IMO. To present this as the Ds having no blame is just flat out stupidity, partisan BS and being blind (pick any of the three). The Ds/Obama are doing zip to truly resolve this and take a leadership role. The Ds, particularly Obama, are being complacent about this regarding the American people. It's actually more embarrassing for BHO simply b/c he's the POTUS and claimed to be the great uniter. LOL.

Overall, I tend to sit with Orenthal's post about GM. He and I haven't agreed on anything in YEARS and yet I read that and say "uh huh".

Look, if the extreme right GOP wants to use legal hard ball parlimentary maneuvering to stop the go-along, get-along precedent in DC, that's their every right. The Dems could have done the same thing to funding the wars or the W tax cuts. They didn't. They can cry about it but that was their choice.

But the GOP shut it down. They refuse to allow a clean vote they believe will pass by using procedure. Again, good for them.

But don't act like they didn't and create some alternate reality.

The whole "refused to negotiate" red herring now gets out of black and white into subjectivity.

My personal belief is the Senate IS negotiating their asses off and has been. Boner lacks the very elementary ability to enact any party discipline whatsoever. If Obama is a bad President, the Boner has to be worse as SotH. The lack of any party discipline or whip ability is staggering on an historic level. His own whip is in open rebellion against him. cantor ignors him and paners to the wing.

There's nothing to negotiate when any compromise is out of the question. "Negotiate" means capitulate to all political gains made. No one is ever going to do that.

Dick Armey & Tom DeLay would have castrated reps by now and hung their sacks from the lamp posts on PA avenue.

There is nothing partisan about any of us. Enough blame to go around to all of them. They all had more than enough time to deal with ACA AND the debt ceiling. Everything is pure partisan BS. It is that simple.

Now they are both going to try to look like heroes come the 11th hour.

Aint fooling me.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:There is nothing partisan about any of us. Enough blame to go around to all of them. They all had more than enough time to deal with ACA AND the debt ceiling. Everything is pure partisan BS. It is that simple.

Now they are both going to try to look like heroes come the 11th hour.