Anonymous

Anyone who curses Christ like this has committed the unpardonable sin, which cannot be forgiven in this life nor in the next.

...which can't be forgiven, mostly because of the NATURE of the sin and the obstinacy which accompanies it. How can you be healed when you go into a livid rage and kick the doctor out of your house in a barrage of profanities?

Matthew

Logged

Anonymous

Here is the Church's official interpretation on this passage (Matthew chapter 12):

[31] "The blasphemy of the Spirit": The sin here spoken of is that blasphemy, by which the Pharisees attributed the miracles of Christ, wrought by the Spirit of God, to Beelzebub the prince of devils. Now this kind of sin is usually accompanied with so much obstinacy, and such wilful opposing the Spirit of God, and the known truth, that men who are guilty of it, are seldom or never converted: and therefore are never forgiven, because they will not repent. Otherwise there is no sin, which God cannot or will not forgive to such as sincerely repent, and have recourse to the keys of the church.

Growing up I had heard, though not from ANY Catholic, that suicide is the unforgivable sin. I do not yet have what I have recently come to refer to as the Catholic way of thinking, reasoning. Maybe some one or more of you can expand on the teaching about suicide. And no, I am not in any way suicidal or having such thoughts.

Having read through these posts, it seems to me that the unforgivable sin of final impenitence is at its root a rejection of God. Do I have this right?

I was taught that suicide is an unforgivable sin because it makes the last action a mortal sin, and those with even one unconfessed mortal sin go to Hell. Since the person who commits suicide is unable to go to confession and receive absolution, suicide is a straight ticket to Hell.

I was taught that suicide is an unforgivable sin because it makes the last action a mortal sin, and those with even one unconfessed mortal sin go to Hell. Since the person who commits suicide is unable to go to confession and receive absolution, suicide is a straight ticket to Hell.

I have never heard of suicide being an unforgivable sin. Rather it is a grave mortal sin that will send one to Hell. Say in the case of a person suiciding and the effect being fatal but not immediate, one could repent the action and sincerely ask God for forgiveness and He would grant it. Nobody would ever know the outcome for that person, and it still important to pray for his soul. But it certainly would be slim chance of grace at the last moment, maybe as a result of someone else's constant prayer, and definitely not to be banked on.Nevertheless suicide is not the unforgivable sin.

Logged

Anonymous

Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant on Yesterday at 07:24:00 PMI was taught that suicide is an unforgivable sin because it makes the last action a mortal sin, and those with even one unconfessed mortal sin go to Hell. Since the person who commits suicide is unable to go to confession and receive absolution, suicide is a straight ticket to Hell. I have never heard of suicide being an unforgivable sin.

Rather it is a grave mortal sin that will send one to Hell. Say in the case of a person suiciding and the effect being fatal but not immediate, one could repent the action and sincerely ask God for forgiveness and He would grant it. Nobody would ever know the outcome for that person, and it still important to pray for his soul. But it certainly would be slim chance of grace at the last moment, maybe as a result of someone else's constant prayer, and definitely not to be banked on.Nevertheless suicide is not the unforgivable sin.

While it is true we may pray for the soul of that person, we do not know with any certainty at all that "God would grant it" because whatever regret there may (or may not) have been on the part of the dead person, a mortal sin was committed but not confessed and absolved - there was no time for that - which is the only way we can say with any degree of certainty at all that "He would grant it".

The unforgivable sin(s) is one such as adultery, (or any mortal sin really) where there is no forgiveness while one lives in the sin.

In the case of suicide, the mortal sin is committed only an instant before death, or unconsciousness then death. In each case, there was no time to repent, let alone confess to a priest.

If the person jumps from an airplane without a parachute to kill themself, a mortal sin has been committed the instant they jump from the plane. Death occurs say one minute later when they hit the ground - assuming they didn't die of a heart attach on the way down. Regardless of what's going through the mind of the person and no matter how you look at it, a mortal sin has been committed, then they die. Assuming the person was sane, the assumption is always that the person died in mortal sin. The hope is that "somehow" he repented and God forgave him before he crossed into eternity. There is possibly a glimmer, but not much hope for that soul.

Logged

Anonymous

I was taught that suicide is an unforgivable sin because it makes the last action a mortal sin, and those with even one unconfessed mortal sin go to Hell. Since the person who commits suicide is unable to go to confession and receive absolution, suicide is a straight ticket to Hell.

What if someone were to jump off a bridge and then regret it and repent on the way down? They may still be saved. St. John Vianney commented on this possibility when a woman asked him about her husband who committed suicide. So while someone who committed suicide is *probably* damned, it still isn't certain and we can still pray for them.

Logged

Anonymous

Rather it is a grave mortal sin that will send one to Hell. Say in the case of a person suiciding and the effect being fatal but not immediate, one could repent the action and sincerely ask God for forgiveness and He would grant it. Nobody would ever know the outcome for that person, and it still important to pray for his soul. But it certainly would be slim chance of grace at the last moment, maybe as a result of someone else's constant prayer, and definitely not to be banked on.Nevertheless suicide is not the unforgivable sin.While it is true we may pray for the soul of that person, we do not know with any certainty at all that "God would grant it" because whatever regret there may (or may not) have been on the part of the dead person, a mortal sin was committed but not confessed and absolved - there was no time for that - which is the only way we can say with any degree of certainty at all that "He would grant it".

The unforgivable sin(s) is one such as adultery, (or any mortal sin really) where there is no forgiveness while one lives in the sin.

In the case of suicide, the mortal sin is committed only an instant before death, or unconsciousness then death. In each case, there was no time to repent, let alone confess to a priest.

If the person jumps from an airplane without a parachute to kill themself, a mortal sin has been committed the instant they jump from the plane. Death occurs say one minute later when they hit the ground - assuming they didn't die of a heart attach on the way down. Regardless of what's going through the mind of the person and no matter how you look at it, a mortal sin has been committed, then they die. Assuming the person was sane, the assumption is always that the person died in mortal sin. The hope is that "somehow" he repented and God forgave him before he crossed into eternity. There is possibly a glimmer, but not much hope for that soul.

You're right, it's both unlikely that they regretted(or even had time to regret) their actions and it is also uncertain if God would absolve them due to their regret, that'd vary from case to case I'd imagine. But if it's still a possibility, however unbelievably slim, we can still pray for them. I don't think the Church has ever declared definitively that someone was damned(although those who committed suicide are usually buried in unconsecrated ground, that still doesn't declare that they were DEFINITELY damned).

That was me and I pressed post before I was ready to post. Clicked the wrong button.

Quote

The unforgivable sin(s) is one such as adultery, (or any mortal sin really) where there is no forgiveness while one lives in the sin.

You are mistaken. Neither is divorce the unforgivable sin. You are confusing unforgivable with mortal. These words have two different meanings.

Also anon changed my word repent to regret. These also have different meanings. Be careful not to confuse people who are trying to learn.

That was my post. I always forget about clicking that box.

You missed the part I bolded. As long as one lives in adultery, there can be no forgiveness for that mortal sin, which is why I said that sin (and all mortal sins) are unforgivable while one lives in the sin.

Also, I did not mean to change your word, rather, I meant that in their last nano second, if the person felt any other emotion (other than their reason for killing themself) at all, it would be regret, not repentance. I put it that way because if the person changes his mind at all, we do not know. If his action is any indication at all, then sane individuals would say there was neither regret nor repentance and that he did what he did no purpose, but between the two, regret would be about the only thing they might have, or have time for imo.

Managing to garner perfect contrition in the last nano second before death is without a doubt most unlikely, or perhaps better said, the least likely thing possible.

What I can say for positive, is if I ever committed suicide, I would go straight to hell.

Logged

For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

But again you are confusing terms. You are talking about unforgiven sins but the topic is THE Unforgivable sin.

Jesus Himself tells us in Chapter12 of Matthew's Gospel which addresses the Intransigence of those whited sepulchres, the Pharisees:

[31] Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. [32] And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. [33] Either make the tree good and its fruit good: or make the tree evil, and its fruit evil. For by the fruit the tree is known. [34] O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. [35]A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

So we see there is only one unforgivable sin (THE sin). These Pharisees, in this chapter alone, were constantly watching out for ways to trip Him up and trap Him in order to kill him, in they finally succeeded, as we know. They could have repented at any time but they chose final impenitence.

I repeat that it would be a very slim chance that a person could survive a suicide just long enough to repent, (but nevertheless possible) and it would be presumptious to bank on it. Presumption on God's mercy would be a sin in itself to compound the mortal sin of suicide.

But again you are confusing terms. You are talking about unforgiven sins but the topic is THE Unforgivable sin.

I was referencing 1st Mansion Tenant's post regarding suicide, which yes, was a bit off the thread's topic.

Quote

I repeat that it would be a very slim chance that a person could survive a suicide just long enough to repent, (but nevertheless possible) and it would be presumptious to bank on it. Presumption on God's mercy would be a sin in itself to compound the mortal sin of suicide.

The thing is, regardless of the situation, the whole idea of having a last moment repentance while committing suicide is a situation that is only hypothetical, same as God actually forgiving the person in the last instant of life is hypothetical. So there are two hypotheticals necessary in order to assume the person made it to heaven - which is a third hypothetical.

So certainly, hypothetically, anything and everything is possible, including the idea that a sane person who committed suicide can make it to heaven. In reality, no, I do not believe there is any such teaching of the Church, nor do I believe such a thing would ever happen, least ways not as long as the person is sane.

An exception might be, I don't think so, but if there is an exception, this might be it - the person purposely did whatever to commit suicide and is unconscious but not dead yet, and a priest administers the Last Rites to the unconscious person just before he dies. I personally don't think that would save the person either, but that is a situation that actually could happen, and if it did, that would be their only chance - imo.

Logged

For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

Stubborn, 1st Mansion was not off-topic. She was responding to Cruiser's post wherein he questioned if suicide could be the unforgivable sin.

Of course we are talking of a hypothetical situation. What other way can we speak? It is impossible to know what in the mind of a person who does not die immediately in a suicide but is still able to form thoughts.

And you say that there is a remote possibility of God forgiving such a person, though we cannot know that. I did not mention or imply a teaching of the Church, but I do know that They are meant for our own salvation and God is not bound by them.

My point is that you spoke of divorce and other sins as being unforgivable, and I can only assume that you meant to say "unforgiven". All sins can be forgiven except etc.......

CathInfo.com - A message board with Catholic news and information for traditional Catholics living in the modern world.Have questions about our discussion forum? E-mail us: news at cathinfo.com

The posts on CathInfo are the words and opinions of the individual members who posted them, and do not reflect the views of CathInfo or its owner. CathInfo is not liable for the postings of any of its members.

CathInfo is the de-facto discussion headquarters for the SSPX Resistance, which it officially supports.
Traditional Catholics worldwide have made us the #1 forum for SSPX Resistance news and discussion in the English-speaking world.

Please pray for Bishop Richard Williamson, a noble prelate and hand-picked successor of Archbishop Lefebvre whose Catholic wisdom and zeal for the truth have inspired many Traditional Catholics.
On October 23, 2012, the good Bishop was cast out of the SSPX, where he had labored tirelessly for 36 years.
His continued membership in the neo-SSPX would have made a premature union with Rome more difficult.
He is committed to defending Catholic Tradition in all its purity in the SSPX Resistance, as the true successor of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, continuing the fight the SSPX once fought."I have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore I die in exile." - Pope Gregory VII