I realize this has nothing to do with Final Doom The Way id Did, but I'll ask it in here anyways. There seems to be an issue with Doom II The Way id Did when playing with Risen 3d with 3d monsters and weapons etc. The 3d pump action shotgun is replaced with the original sprite. This is not the case when I load Doom II, or the Final Doom episodes. Any advice? Thanks.

Piper Maru said:
I realize this has nothing to do with Final Doom The Way id Did, but I'll ask it in here anyways. There seems to be an issue with Doom II The Way id Did when playing with Risen 3d with 3d monsters and weapons etc. The 3d pump action shotgun is replaced with the original sprite. This is not the case when I load Doom II, or the Final Doom episodes. Any advice? Thanks.

The palette editing done for D2TWID MAP31/32 required that some sprites be remapped and included in the wad to avoid glitches. Risen3D is probably seeing that some of the shotgun sprites were replaced and is thus deciding not to override them with models.

I thought of this suggestion, though you don't necessarily have to follow it, but maybe take it into consideration. It's another idea for Plutonia in this project. While the original TNT had new music mixed with Doom 2's, Plutonia used music from both Doom and Doom 2. So one possible idea for this project's take on Plutonia is to use music from another game. Using Doom and Doom 2 music seemed like the way to go, but since D2TWID tried something different, particularly the secret levels being Commander Keen-themed, you guys could do the same approach with the music. Rise of the Triad music may seem like a possible candidate, but I think there had been quite a number of wads that use ROTT music. You know something, I don't think there's any wad to this day that strictly uses Duke Nukem 3D music. Kama Sutra might have used plenty of the game's tracks, but it was also mixed in with other music. It could be me, but I always thought that Duke Nukem 3D's music would fit rather well with a Plutonia megawad. Even Plutonia 2 used one track from the game for one of the maps, Map 28, if I recall, and I believe it was the track "Gut Wrencher."

T-Rex said:
I always thought that Duke Nukem 3D's music would fit rather well with a Plutonia megawad. Even Plutonia 2 used one track from the game for one of the maps, Map 28, if I recall, and I believe it was the track "Gut Wrencher."

I'd stick with the original Doom and Doom 2 songs. Or compose complete originals. But songs from Doom and Doom 2 are the way to go. Remember this is a twid after all.

But dtwid and d2twid did not have much new music at all, apart from E2M9 which used the song from the Endgame. And the songs used in MAP31 and MAP32.

pcorf said:
I'd stick with the original Doom and Doom 2 songs. Or compose complete originals. But songs from Doom and Doom 2 are the way to go. Remember this is a twid after all.

Good point, pcorf. Despite that difference in D2TWID to the original Doom 2, it's very much the best to emulate the original games as it is. With new and original music, that would be best reserved for the TNT project.

I'm not interested in this project anymore, if Vorpal wants to keep working on the map or someone else wants it I'm fine with that, if not I'll just release it as a standalone. I came into this without fully understanding how rigorous the requirements for the project would be and I don't want to work with them. I'll check it out when it's released though.

Ye, I'm definitely not going to edit my stuff to use 10 increments or whatever, that's like asking me to map using only left hand or something lol. If someone wants to take my levels and make them more TWID that would be cool though.

Memfis said:
Ye, I'm definitely not going to edit my stuff to use 10 increments or whatever, that's like asking me to map using only left hand or something lol. If someone wants to take my levels and make them more TWID that would be cool though.

Depending on the mapper you're emulating, I don't think it has to be 5/10 everywhere. Just in a few places.

Some 5/10 junk increments won't make your wad plutoniaesque. The thing about plutonia is that authors didn't give a slightest crap about layouts and could make fun out of anything they got their hands on. Most of time.

j4rio said:
Some 5/10 junk increments won't make your wad plutoniaesque. The thing about plutonia is that authors didn't give a slightest crap about layouts and could make fun out of anything they got their hands on. Most of time.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure the formal aspects of ghostmapping Casalis can be adjusted later on so that every OCD out there is satisfied. Mappers who do not have the time or energy to become Casalis for every node and stimpak placed should be more concerned about the layouts and battles being plutonish, not the window sizes and texture offsets. Just my 2 cents.

Count me in for a TNT map. I have been wanting to make a Dead Zone-ish map for a long time.

One question: in many TNT maps such as Map04, Map20, Map21, Map,23, and many others, there are lots of semi-realistic "decorations", such as benches, chairs, tables with computer terminals, beds, and other stuff like this. Am I allowed to use this kind of decoration? (before you ask, no, I'm not going to spam them everywhere. just use one here, and other there)

I'd say to only use the 10 increments for places where the 20-pixel-tall Plutonia bricks are used. Otherwise it doesn't matter. Who'll notice in-game that something is two pixels lower than The Way Dario & Milo Did?

I'll notice that METAL2 or SUPPORT3 isn't awkwardly cutoff damn it. Also the light is kind of important because it makes Final Doom look a lot different in Zdoom (which actually renders rooms at the odd 140/150/whatever levels) and Vanilla/Boom which just rounds them down to the nearest 16. But yes this is OCD to the level of dew's "sandy key door" stuff no one would ever notice, so if you don't feel like doing it, it can be done retroactively to the map during the final phases of the project.

j4rio said:
Some 5/10 junk increments won't make your wad plutoniaesque. The thing about plutonia is that authors didn't give a slightest crap about layouts and could make fun out of anything they got their hands on. Most of time.

This wasn't my issue. I thought I'd enjoy the limits of Plutonia and using its resources, but it turned out the style of either casali is too far from what I want to do creatively to hold my interest. Nor do I want to invest my time in TNT mapping, so I'm withdrawing from the project. Again, you guys can use my map however you want, just let me know if you aren't so I can release it separately.

esselfortium said:
The palette editing done for D2TWID MAP31/32 required that some sprites be remapped and included in the wad to avoid glitches. Risen3D is probably seeing that some of the shotgun sprites were replaced and is thus deciding not to override them with models.

Ah I see! Thanks for the response.

Needless to say, I'm pretty excited about this new project. It's been awhile since I played Final Doom. I'm really looking forward to how it turns out!

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:
Count me in for a TNT map. I have been wanting to make a Dead Zone-ish map for a long time.

One question: in many TNT maps such as Map04, Map20, Map21, Map,23, and many others, there are lots of semi-realistic "decorations", such as benches, chairs, tables with computer terminals, beds, and other stuff like this. Am I allowed to use this kind of decoration? (before you ask, no, I'm not going to spam them everywhere. just use one here, and other there)

considering thats how Team TNT Did It, I would say yes. Otherwise this project isn't very accurate.

I like this map. Two things about the ending bridge: both switches make it go up and I don't see a way to make it go down, so it's possible to make the level unwinnable. Also, it's a damaging floor. Leave It In might apply to the second.

Also, it's apparently possible for an enemy to close the door to the area with the red key after you hit the S1 Open Stay switch, trapping you in there.

I too liked the Gamma map! The floor collapsing into the nukage to reveal a twist of precarious catwalks is a kind of eureka TNT moment, and strikes me as the sort of idea particular to 90's level design, when working with shapes to create rudimentary shifts in height variation seemed a common trend. Perhaps the interiors of the map in general could be shrunk down a little bit, though.

I also wonder what the map might look like if it were placed in e2 and had a dark exterior. Some comparisons between it and TNT: MAP13 might start to be drawn but we're still in the "toying about" phase.

@jazzmaster: Glad to see that someone else is tackling a Dowswell map. It's a pretty good attempt, I reckon, although I'd be careful with including rooms beyond necessity: Prison effectively only has 4 areas, 5 if you count the sandbox that binds them all together, and Cargo Bay (his map in Icarus) is centered around just 2 areas, all up. This makes those areas require a dedicated and purposeful gimmick, whereas some of the rooms in Radio Tower are a little lacking. I'd also be wary of directly ripping off the teleporter setup that he used in Prison.

Thanks guys, kinda surprised for the positive reaction since the map was made in a "why the hell not" moment.

ClonedPickle said:
...Two things about the ending bridge: both switches make it go up and I don't see a way to make it go down, so it's possible to make the level unwinnable.

The bridge was made like that deliberately, since I think that's the kind of bullshit moment that was common in 1996.

Also, it's a damaging floor. Leave It In might apply to the second.

Damaging floor? Are you sure? Supposedly the very action of raising the floor and changing textures should take away any properties it might have...

Also, it's apparently possible for an enemy to close the door to the area with the red key after you hit the S1 Open Stay switch, trapping you in there.

I'l give you half a point, since I actually did not realize that could happen, but also you're not actually trapped, in the secret room with the Hell Knight there is another secret with a teleporter to the outside. Still, I will fix the door.

Alfonzo said:
...Perhaps the interiors of the map in general could be shrunk down a little bit, though.

I would actually like to keep the big interiors, since I consider that part of my mapping style, still if they REALLY have to be shrunk down I will do it.

I also wonder what the map might look like if it were placed in e2 and had a dark exterior. Some comparisons between it and TNT: MAP13 might start to be drawn but we're still in the "toying about" phase.

Fun thing is, TNT Map 13 is one of my favorites of the set and the one I looked at for reference. Will try and see how it looks with darker exterior.

Alfonzo said:
I'd also be wary of directly ripping off the teleporter setup that he used in Prison.

This map kinda made the teleporting thing the central focus/hub of the map, instead of just part of a series of gimmicks, I added the hitscanner room in v0.2 of this map to be sort of a gimmick in itself.

A.Gamma said:
The bridge was made like that deliberately, since I think that's the kind of bullshit moment that was common in 1996.

Well sure, but I think that TeamTNT bothered enough to make sure that it wasn't common in TNT.wad. Sure the yellow key in map31 happened, but they released a patch for it and I don't remember any other moment where you can outright get stuck and not progress.

Tarnsman said:
Oh man Time, that LITE border structure. I love it.

pumped for 1996 ToD map

@Jazzmaster: I'd agree with Alfonzo's criticisms, but you could probably simply redesign the teleporter structure a bit perhaps to make it not so reminiscent of prison?