You kept thinking during the first half of the season that Tim Lincecum would find a rhythm, turn this all around, and resemble the Lincecum of old. He had to. He’s been too good, historically good, to be this bad for a whole half.

The Giants keep throwing him out there because they believe that, too. They still believe it, and Lincecum still will take the ball in the second game of the second half of the season.

Lincecum said the problem lately has been fastball command, which isn’t related to his health. He’s not hiding an injury, and he hasn’t been.

“That’s another confusing thing,” he said, while pointing out that injuries aren’t to blame.

That’s one confusing thing in a half-season full of them. Lincecum, not far removed from being one of the best pitches in the world, has put up some of the worst pitching lines of his career through 18 starts.

“You never want to say I’ve hit rock bottom or anything like that, but when things are going as bad as they are right now you’ve got to go out there with the feeling like you’ve got nothing left to lose,” Lincecum said. “I have to erase this, obviously remember it and use it to know what I don’t want to go through again.

“It’s been terrible. It’s a terrible feeling. When you’re the weakest link, that wears on you.”

To his credit, and this is important, he hasn’t backed away from his problems. He doesn’t avoid the media or teammates. He truly is working for a fix that hasn’t come yet.

Lincecum is well aware of how well the other right-handers in the rotation are pitching. He mentioned on several occasions that he’s tired of being the weak link, tired of letting his teammates down. This is a team that’s 46-40, even after a terrible road trip and a 4-14 first-half record with the longtime ace on the mound.

“Obviously they have faith in me,” Lincecum said. “They told me that from the first meeting I’ve had with them. That’s not the question.

“One through five we’re pretty good, as far as the staff goes. I don’t want to be the weak link, where everybody thinks you’re going to run into a stump or a bump here.”

There have been many stumps and many bumps. The Giants will keep throwing him out there, though, hopeful that their ace returns.

“I just think of the second half as a fresh start,” Lincecum said. “Regardless of where I’m pitching you’ve got to come do your job and leave no excuse on the table. That’s what I’m here to do.”

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— Lincecum wasn’t the only problem today, far from it. The Giants had four hits and three errors. It looked to me like a lot of guys were bending over to rest while playing the field and not running out ground balls. Bochy noticed that too.

“It did look like that and it shouldn’t,” Bochy said. “We’re in a good position. The bats have been real quiet, I guess they need a break. They certainly looked like they needed one the last couple of days.”

— Brandon Belt was out of the starting lineup for just the fifth time in the last 26 games and finished the first half mired in a 7 for 39 slump.

“He’s out of sync,” Bochy said. “His confidence is shaken a bit. He’s not one that chases pitches and he has been going out of the zone more than we’re accustomed to.”

Bochy maintained, however, that he wouldn’t be making any lineup changes when the second half kicks off Friday. Bochy also said it was doubtful that Aubrey Huff (sprained right knee) would come off the disabled list in time for the second-half opener.

— Pablo Sandoval hit his eighth homer of the season, providing the Giants’ only runs. Melky Cabrera was 1 for 3 and finished the first half with 119 hits, one shy of Rich Aurilia’s San Francisco-era record for most hits before the All-Star break.

— Ryan Vogelsong won’t win the first-half ERA title, regardless of what Johnny Cueto does today. Ryan Dempster (1.99) returned for the Cubs and pitched enough innings to qualify for the lead. That means the top four guys in ERA in the National League won’t be in Kansas City for the All-Star Game.

— Andrew McCutchen. Whoa. I’d put him up there with Mike Trout as the scariest players the Giants have seen this season.

— -Brad Penny gave up a couple of earned runs after starting his stint with the Giants with three straight scoreless appearances.

— Hector Sanchez took another foul ball off the mask and was once again shaken up. Few players in baseball need the four off days quite like that guy. We were, it seemed, very close to seeing Catcher Emmanuel Burriss.

— The Giants were 1-5 on the road trip and were outscored 45-21.

“It started out bad and gradually got worse,” Bochy said. “We certainly didn’t want to go into the break limping the way we did.”

And with that, let’s call it a half. I might post something tomorrow, but I’ll be mostly silent until Thursday night, when the Giants have a workout. Dan Brown is your guy in Kansas City. Check out his updates here and follow him on Twitter @MercBrownie.

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Giants are still well positioned in the division, but that’s based on earlier play, not on anything they’ve done lately. The lately has just stunk.

Brandon Crawford Watch

Brandon Crawford Watch for July 8, 2012:

Today: 0-3

Season to Date: .240/.287/.335, 1 HR

On the bright side, Pavlovic predicted double-digit home runs from Crawford this season, so that must mean that he’s going to have a huge second half.

moto

‘t’was a relief on this road trip not to hear about a visible presence of SF partisans in the stands. kind and accommodating on los gigantes’ part to let the home team shine on many of the dates. hope the fans recall how many out-of-ordinary twists of chance fell in their favor in the post season road games en route to the championship, not least getting home field vs. Tx thanks to the commissioner’s folly. this season’s post mortem will go something like, the improvement in scoring runs couldn’t cover for the good but no longer great pitching.

touching, to read the still-recurring posts that question belt’s days on the bench, but le boche is not the only skipper who’d choose to keep posey’s stick in the order while giving him relief from the physical grind behind the plate. m.lurie yesterday correctly commented how posey’s fans won’t acknowledge that he might not be the best receiver for every pitcher on the staff. it was molina after all, not posey, who helped lincecum become an ace.

South City Jim

The outcome of today’s game between the Dodgers and the Snakes is a forgone conclusion…Arizona leads 7-0. As hard as this is to do for us Giants fans, folks should start rooting for the Dodgers when they go head to head vs. Arizona, ’cause Arizona is the team to beat.

totalfan62

Nice work, Alex. Good take on Timmy and his issues.

Enjoy your four days off. You guys deserve a break, same as the players. Hopefully everyone comes back on Friday refreshed and ready to win some games.

Foothills Ryan

Hallelujah, a merciful conclusion even though the Pirates took no mercy.

Have an awesome break! It will nice for all of us to take a break from this .500ish ball club. Seriously, they’ve been playing .500 ball for a while now. What’s going to stop them from continuing to play .500. There’s enough holes on the team that not even a big bat will help, especially if that big bat doesn’t play defense will good or has a penchant for injury.

So maybe the smart, forward thinking thing to do would be to not buy anything. Perhaps trade Pagan. Perhaps trade Schierholtz. Bring up any outfielders that can play: Peguero, Kieschnick (if healthy), Perez and ultimately Gary Brown.

It’s sort of a rebuilding year anyway with Crawford at short and Belt at first. Perhaps go all in an have a better chance in 2013 because the farm will be stronger.

Decisions like these take brains and foresight. I’m not sure if Sabean has both.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

76 games left. Half game out. 46-40. This time try clinching on game 161. (Kidding)

Foothills Ryan

Giants could probably still win the weak West without Pagan & Schierholtz so long as Lincecum wins half of his games and Zito continues to wave a magic wand.

We’re seeing what the kids got with Crawford and Belt, maybe Brown should get a shot if he keeps up the Eastern League hot streak. He’d hit better than Crawford. Probably better than Pagan & Schierholtz they way they’ve swung the sticks. Blanco as well. Seriously. I’m not crazy and I don’t do drugs – at least not the hard stuff.

South City Jim

Brown’s older than Trout and Harper and they seem to be doing okay. Maybe not now, but why not a September 1 call up for Brown? There’s definitely enough deadwood on the 40-man roster to make it work.

South City Jim

Some dummy on Marty’s show just called and said that if Lincecum and Zito were .500 this year the Giants would be better off. Hello, Zito is 7-6 (9-8).

Rich

And the Giants will keep losing every 5 days. Awesome.

Scott

Belt is a bit more fragile than he should be, and I believe he does not handle the line-up adjustments that put him on the bench well. Maybe he needs to just toughen up, or maybe Bochy needs to reduce the impact by finding Belt some at bats in the outfield.

This situation does not get easier going forward. The Giants need Posey in the line-up, and thank goodness we have a serviceable back-up in Hector.

Here’s a thought: lay the groundwork to move Belt into the outfield next year – RF or LF. Next year the Giants could have Melky (sure hope FO resigns him), Blanco (even when he struggles he is the best leadoff guy the Giants have had in a while) and Belt in the OF.

Pick up a power lefthanded bat to play 1B 3 to 4 days a week when Buster catches. Someone like a Garrett Jones, but hopefully someone who plays reasonable D.

Then, spend for an offensive minded 2B like Brandon Phillips.

Just a thought. But whatever the plan, I don’t think the Giants are going to get the best out of Belt is he isn’t in the line-up virtually every day.

skat

you ARE the weakest link…goodbye!

Breckeroni

Is it too optimistic to think the only way to go from here is up? thank god the dodgers are downright awful…

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Was that THE BRECK or the scandulous Breck? @ Footy, Pagan woulndnt be moved and Nate is prob going nowhere. Let’s pick up Todd Helton…

pacman68

Foothills Ryan

Here are a couple answers the Giants should be looking for. Don’t give up yet.

Willingham – he’s out Pat the bat we are looking for and he’s under control for next year.

Lowrie – dump Crawford and huge upgrade.

Broxton – good closer.

Get two of these guys and we have a chance. Who would we have to trade? That’s the question.

pacman68

ClutchUp

Is Todd Helton available??

pacman68

Did someone on here post Ryan Dempster? I thought he was hurt?

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Pac-The Rox are folding their tent and Helton thought the Rox were make a better type push bfore his days were done and Helton and Tracy don’t see eye to eye. One of the AL scouts I know who use to be with the Cubs said Helton “might be” looking for a new club who might have a shot at post season…

Lefty

This Lincecum thing seriously makes me want to cry. I just feel so bad for him. And the rest of the team. And the fans. It doesn’t seem like anyone’s doing anything wrong. It’s just not working out.

I was thinking about the saddest Giants’ storylines of the past 20 years. Here are my top 5, in chronological order (I can’t rank them–they’re all awful):

5. The Giants almost moving to Tampa in 1992.
4. The Giants losing Game 162 in 1993 and finishing out of the playoffs despite winning 103 games that year.
3. Game 6 of the 2002 World Series (“No, Dusty! Don’t take the ball from Ortiz!”)
2. Scott Cousins taking out Buster Posey in 2011.
1. Our Cy Young/World Series hero Tim Lincecum imploding in 2012.

Not much more to say about this except just…I’m sad.

pacman68

ClutchUp

I would take Helton in a second but do you really think the Rox would trade inside the same division?

My buddy who live in Denver says that Tracy will get fired after ASB.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Lowrie & Altuve are Stros untouchables, I think…

pacman68

ClutchUp

What do you think of Willingham and Broxton?

Dirty Al

#5 Root for the Dodgers? Eh?

No matter how much sense it makes, not likely to happen.

Over 50 years of suffering the rivalry makes it hard, if not impossible, to overcome.

There’s gotta be a better way…

Has to.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

I concur about the same division issue but it may only matter if both teams are in contention. Padres and Rox might not be in a position to care about that axiom…

pacman68

Lefty

You can add to the sad list.

Will Clark signing with the Rangers.
Jeff Kent leaving.
Casey Hikka breaking up with me at Candlestick 1993.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Pacman=2 thumbs up on both guys. Certain players like Willinham, the Ugglas, Stantons of the world have zero issues hitting @ ATT…

Dirty Al

#21 Losing to the Cardinals in 1987.

Worse than Lincecum problems of 2012 for me. Not even close.

Trading of Mays and McCovey, heartbreaking.

Giants have had lots of popular players traded or struggle. Lincecum is not fun to watch, but it’s only been a few months. Plenty of time this year or in the future to return to form.

Frank the Ballbuster

The Giants can’t continue with a middle infield of Crawford and Theriot, they’ve combined for a whopping 1 HR… just sayin

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Wow Pac, 93 = 103 wins but no more Casey, how sad. Did she give you many “hikka’s”?

South City Jim

Dirty Al, the easy answer is play .600 ball the second half. Short of that I’ll root for or against whoever I have to for the Giants to qualify for the post season. I’m sure in September 2010 there were days I was rooting for the Dodgers to be the Padres and so were you.

South City Jim

That’s “beat” the Padres, not “be”. Although, there are many times I wish the Dodgers were the Padres, or at least played like them.

Lefty

Dirty Al & Pac: I only went back 20 years, remember? I agree about that ’87 Cardinals series. That was awful. Almost as bad as the 2002 WS. Almost. I was a bit young when Mays and McCovey were traded, so it didn’t hit me quite as hard. I guess the Earthquake should factor in there, too.

Pac: Sorry about Casey.

Also Pac (from previous thread): You’re a hard grader. I think it’s a little rough to give Freddy an “F.” He WAS injured in the line of duty. Maybe that grade belongs with Sabean for continuing to extend him when he was obviously so injury-prone. Oh, and you forgot Kontos. He’d been really good up until today.

Random Fan

Timmy needs to watch The Avengers over the break and pick up some unbeatable attitude from the bad guy, who incidently looks just like him

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

The SF Giants are going to have to look upon the next 76 games as the Second Season as do the SJ Giants in their season. Whatever the Giants Way is = it does seem to have a nitch in regards to battling through extreme “Scuffling” Moments. 2010 & 2011 provided a perfect template for Torture 1.0 in 2010 and Torture 2.0 in 2011. 2012 will be no different. Excrutiation 3.0…….

Lefty

I’m an easier grader and that’s one of the many reasons my students love me so much. 😉

I’d go:
Blanco: B- (he’s been an unexpected bonus, and points for saving the perfect game!)
Theriot: B (after a slow start has turned out to be a fantastic scrapheap find)
Melky: A (no A+ because his RBI numbers are low considering his BA)
Posey: B (got off to a rough start defensively & a couple slumps–but overall good)
Sandoval: Incomplete (had a great start & was injured; inconsistent since returning)
Pagan: B- (he’s been money in some key RBI spots. I hate him in CF.)
Belt: C (lack of power/too many Ks vs. good OBP/defense & decent RBIs for ABs)
Crawford: D (hitting about what I thought but defense much worse than I thought)

The Rogue has been issuing the warning about little “timmy’s” health. He needs a full physical: blood, urine, hair and mental. The ‘gigantes’ are in trouble. Voselong and Zito won’t pitch as well in the 2nd half, Cain is not a typical Ace and Bumgarner is a good #3 or #4. It’s a good thing the Dodgers stink. Giants final record 2012 83-79.

EC

Randomfan…Timmy needs not to watch movies…but video so he can figure out how to spot his fastball….
It is not his attitude…it is simply how he pitches. The team would be in commanding performance if he was only average. The Gs have no options unless you think Penny is the answer.
That said, wouldn’t be surprised if Sabean pulls off something outrageous..like 97…

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

If I were on that flight back, I’m not sure if I would get roaring drunk and puke or just mope looking out the window. The 2010 guys used this kind of situation as a catalyst to come closer together, it’ll be a telling measure of their character as a team what happens next with these guys.

IMO, they don’t need Willingham or his surrogate nearly as much as they need a Greinke. I think it will take Lincecum a year or more to climb out of his valley, if he ever does, and Zito is on borrowed time. It takes 4 good arms in October just to afford the ante.

Man those Pirates and National are good ballclubs. Charlie Lao lives on under Clint Hurdles cap.

Channel: Sadly, I agree. It’s been half a season now. Every five days I hope it’s the day he starts to turn it around. We see flashes of it now and then. Heard Jim Barr on with Marty Lurie yesterday. He says it’s mental, not mechanical: “40-50% of the pitches you make in every start have bad mechanics.” It’s the confidence, the attitude, the edge that’s lacking. And every time he goes out there and fails, it gets worse.

The quickest fix for this team is a reliable fourth starter. Greinke would be a home run, but for a fourth starter, a double or single will do, too. I think they still need another reliable bullpen arm. As for a position player, I’m not convinced that anyone available would be that much of an upgrade–and anyone who would be an upgrade would be very expensive.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Muelens is Co-Head Hitting Coach. I coach my hitters and there can be too much credit when a hitter(s) do well and too much blame when ice cold. Hitters hol an oblong bat in their hands, in their lower and upper arms trying to hit a round sphere thrown 74 to 99 mph with filthy secondary pitches. Lansford failed, BamBam succeede, BamBam failed, et all. Better players make better Coaches. Ted Williams Senator teams were HORRIBLE.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Renel=B+ You ARE lenient!

South City Jim

One thing I have to give the Pirates and Hurdle credit for. They’ve got two thumpers in the middle of the LU in McGehee and Alvarez that may not hit for average but are big, scary looking dudes that swing for the fences and they’re in the LU everyday regardless of who’s pitching. Reminds me of Burrell and Uribe in 2010.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Channel is charlie Lao related to Mao?

Stan

And if being “Too thin Tim” wasn’t bad enough..you notice he insists on also wearing a uniform that’s much too baggy? What’s in his head?

ESPN: “The Giants were drubbed today”..going all out to slur SF for voting for Pablo…

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Lefty,

the Giants are a pitch driven team from the bottom up. IMO, they can’t make a go of it without four (4) starters that might be a 1-2 1/2 on any other team. With Greinke, they become a force. That staff, IMO, could be plugged into any team in the NL and make them an automatic contender. Sabean will have to make a big and ,by definition, expensive move if he can. Sadly, he’s got all that Lincecum money to spend now and he has to cement a top drawer 4 pitcher rotation to make this team go. He really doesn’t have many options, IMO. I’d guess it’s Hamels or Greinke since the PCL is empty.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

CU,

actually he’s a distant relative of Harvey Pennick, who created modern golf.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

South,

Mcgeehe is the same thumper who couldn’t hit kneecap last year in Milwaukee. That guy has been to ‘school’.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Rogue=Baumgarner a 3 or 4? Wonder if that’s just your knowledge bcause the other 29 GMs might disagree = he barely could legally drink in 2010……. Bumgarner “will be” Top Shelf” What kind of a NON typical ace is Cain? Carpenter – Halliday and Lee have all been Team Aces and are having OFF seasons….

SurfCity

Stan says:
July 8th, 2012 at 5:52 pm

ESPN: “The Giants were drubbed today”..going all out to slur SF for voting for Pablo

=====

Eh not too sure on that. The giants WERE drubbed today.

SurfCity

Agree with those that say giants need to fix the pitching.

Way too many holes to be able to fix up the offense, on a team built for good pitching.

That’s why I think it would be more realistic to try to patch up the pitching right now.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Stan=55 was 157-162 when he won 2 CYs?

Foothills Ryan

Hard to believe McCutchen won’t be a starter in All-Star game. It’s Cabrera that should be coming off the bench. Sandoval should be on the bench also. This type of rant is getting old but it’s true. One way to punt home field advantage is to let the fans (especially the tech savvy ones) vote for the All-Star team.

—

Now for the Pirates. They are good. Yeah, they’ve got pop and they’ve got McCutchen. And they’ve got Neil Walker. They’re giving me Pirattitude. They will make a move and “go all in”. They could be the front runners for Carlos Quentin. Maybe Justin Upton instead if he really is available.

Like the Nationals, they are better than the Giants now and likely will be in October.

—

Lincecum is ours, all ours. Just like Zito, his will be a contract that the Giants have to hang on to and hope for the best. Here’s hoping for the best, because the way things are, the Giants are a .500 team.

There will be no major move. There shouldn’t be. Like last year, being in the hunt in the NL West is Fool’s Gold. It’s a great way to wreck a farm by thinking a big move will make a difference. 25 players make the team and the team needs to pull it together. There are key cogs that need to come around. Lincecum needs to pull his head out. Sandoval needs discipline. Pagan needs to come back around. Between Schierholtz and Blanco, someone needs to step up. If they pitch, they can win the whimpy West with what they have. No need to deplete the farm by adding a rental. This includes Greinke, Quentin and even Street.

The only adds Sabean should make are bullpen help and a RH bench bat with power – even that one is iffy.

If I was in charge, I would look at trading what pieces can be traded, like Pagan and Schierholtz and work on building for next year and beyond. Never mind 2011 redux.

—

Why did Marty Lurie shut down so early today? I was already to call in with my stay-put approach.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Foothills,

let’s hope Sabean’s POV isn’t as dour as yours. There is a lot of season left.

If the Giants can get a reliable 4th starter, they can use Penny as a spot starter and put Zito in situations to succeed by skipping him or moving everyone back occassionally so he misses the Milwaukee’s and Nationals of the world. No bigger support of Zito than me, but take for instance the upcoming road trip to Atlanta and Philly. My guess is that Philly’s a better match up for Zito right now than Atlanta. The Giants have an off day on July 16. They could opt to skip Zito the next rotation and have him pitch against the Phillies on Saturday, July 21 and still keep the lefties separated, as follows:

This is just one example. It also ensures that one of the strongest starters on the team (Vogey) pitches twice on the roadie. It does mean that Lincecum pitches the 9 am PST game on July 19 in Atlanta, but this is the way they need to start thinking going forward. Unfortunately, as long as Lincecum strugges, the ability to move the rotation around becomes more difficult.

VamosGigantes

As Alex pointed out in his blog, the team is 4-14 when Tim starts. The hitting, the defense, who plays short, road e.r.a. vs. home e.r.a., possible trades, etc. does, of course, still matter, but as we all can see this team is 42-26 when the other starters take the ball. It’s more than half a season now. The Giants playing over .600 ball when anyone but the 2-time-Cy-Young-award-winner starts. And, naturally, because Tim Lincecum has done what he has done in past seasons, he’s going to get this entire year to figure things out. I think we can all agree on this. (We can debate whether that’s good or bad, but, folks, barring injury, that’s what’s going to happen.) Of course, like everyone, I want Big Time Timmy Jim back, but realistically, if the team can keep up its non-Lincecum start record going, then a record of 7-8, or even 6-9 in his last 15 starts, still probably allows the team to challenge for the best record in the league. I hope so!
Go Giants!

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

South,

as I’ve indicated, I agree completely with that strategy…pick your battles.

South City Jim

Channel,

Whatever they decide to do, Vogey needs to start that first game in Atlanta. To ask Zito to pitch two games on that roadie is asking for trouble.

Bay area rogue

The Rogue senses that Clutchup must man up before his lack of reasoning makes me throw up. “Will be” does not mean or guarantee that he is top shelf now or will “ever be”. I don’t care when he can legally drink. Let’s deal with the now and be realistic. Who cares what “29 other GM’S” think? Cain is an all star but he is no ace. Look at his history. When ‘little timmy” went south, so did the ‘gigantes’ real ace.

If Cole Hamels goes to the Rangers and the Rangers do not win the World Series. They never will.

Lefty

The Dominican Summer League is mostly 16-17 year olds. Getting excited about Villalona “tearing up” that league is like…even mentioning that Aubrey Huff hit a homer in A ball last night. Seriously?

If you want to look for a 1B of the future (that’s not Belt), keep an eye on Ricky Oropesa in San Jose, drafted in an early round last year out of USC (Fight On!). He’s having a fine first professional year and is considered one of the best power-hitting prospects in the system. Also Adam Duvall at 3B, also in SJ. Just a couple names to tuck in the back of the mind for later.

Stan

I think in his Cy years he was at 170 or abouts…but it looks like when Lincecum has success…he then loses weight..struggles, puts it back on in time to make a season. This year?..from 197 in late winter to…165 by ST,and he’s less then that now. I dont know that he’s 145 as Rich Hind posted..but he’s near that wasted early 2010 weight when I could see his orbital sockets he was so thin.
You notice that more talk of his weight (minus Krukow who sells the company line) hasn’t changed him? Its like “OK-YOU KNOW i weight too little…but I’m not telling you why” and he and the Giants are still alibi stonewalling. No,all truth and honesty like with Huff.
The fact that Krukow wont even mention weight?..that’s a huge red flag.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Up” have little to do with it, do you expect sometime in Cains career for Cain to ever have a Lincecum type melt down? I’ll leave you with you’re repeated hair analysis and urine tests for 55 to ponder the eventual outcome. They get random tested three times per yr = no other off site tests are allowable per players union, but then You are the Rogue!

Lefty

Rogue: C’mon, really? ANY team would be happy to have Cain/Bumgarner as its one-two righty-lefty punch. OK, maybe not Washington (Gio/Strasburg), but any other team. And yes, I include Philly (Doc/Lee–old/injured) and LAA (Weaver/CJ–ours are just as good and younger).

Cain has never been more dominant than this season. He should have two more wins and be 11-3 at the ASB if the bullpen had held his leads. He has a perfect game and was one guy away from a second one. He matched Cliff Lee in an epic double 9-inning shutout.

Bumgarner is 22 years old and shut out the scary Texas Rangers in the World Series in THEIR park when he was a barely 21-year-old rookie–a team that had KILLED lefties. He has 10 wins at the break and a one-hit shutout.

Maybe Stan has all of Timmeh’s posters since 2007 nd is comparing using the eye ball test as I used to do with my Charlies Angels Posters 😉

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Professor get out tomorrow. All rookie staff for last 5 days. Reg Doc needs to sign release. My thumbs are are so soar from typing on this Samsung (frown)

Nameless Bob

Get better CU.

Lefty

Wow. Well, you be good and do everything Doc & Nurse Rachet tell you. Must have been pretty serious to keep you in there this long. I had a baby and complications and was still kicked out a scant 17 hours later. Seriously–I had an IV until 5 min. before discharge in case I needed a transfusion. 17 hours, and I have good insurance!

So you be good and take it easy! Your kids need you, and so do we.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Chanel I had a morphine dream in the ward that something bad happened to Selig. Paine Stewert, Buddy Holly, jim croce, Allyia, and John Denver were in the dream. MC’d by Richard Pryor and Ricky Nelson….

Lefty

Timmy should spend his break watching his Game 5 of the 2010 World Series and Game 1 of the NLDS. Find that confident kid with the swagger and the edge. Are you still there, Timmy?

Lefty

I love Buddy Holly. We saw Lyle Lovett last night at the Mondavi Center in Davis, and he played a cover of “Well, Alright” that he did for a 75th birthday tribute album for Buddy Holly. Hard to believe after Buddy’s been gone so many years that last year would have only been his 75th birthday. He was so young when he went.

If you see him again, tell him I said Be-bop-a-lu-lah.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Timmy should become a disciple of Burning Man. Run around buck neked. Absorb all the nuances and throw a few bullpens in 107 temps. Find his inner Rick Rueshal or William Vanlandingham

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Nurse Rachet here is a Brewer fan. I like Selig even more now. Channeling Richie Valens now.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

CU,

my last morphine dream was at the extraction of a foley eight years ago. I dreamed (hallucinated) I had been turned inside out, filled with wax, and lit like a candle. Sort of Dante’s 7th level on steroids.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

CU,

the secret is to tell Ms. Rachet to blow on it, whatever it is, tell her to blow on it.

oh yeah

Clutch Up,,have to disagree about the Ted williams Senators being awful. His 1st yr managing they won 21 more games,scored 170 more runs,along with other huge improvements. Plus he improved guys like Ed Brinkman,who in his first 2844 at bats had a .193 lifetime batting average before Williams to .266 and a.262 hitter his 2 seasons with him.

Despite how close they are, the giants have shown me no signs they can hit consistently or Lincecum any signs that he can dominate even a mediocre lineup. I hope I am wrong.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

@CC I am trying out all my Christopher Lloyd lines on Nurse Ratchy, sheks not a happy camper. She works “nights” and a used the phrase “grave yard” as in “how do you like” and her nails got long and she took my open backside gown priviledges away from me..

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

The before and after on Williams 1st year in Washington. It’s important to remember that it was the first year they dropped the mound height, so it may have been as much that as his instruction that yielded the marginal change seen.

Thanks Oh Yea. I do know Mike Epstein used his relationshp with 9 to score millions in DVDs yet there was only one Ted. Me=not a fan of Epstein..

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

CU,

I’d say turn the gown around, but she might call the PT and that hurts.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

CC: now I’m under surveillance and they’ve asigned me a male nurse…

PoloGroundz

Bring up Whitey. DFA someone for gosh sakes and make room for a 3rd catcher on this roster. buster and hector need some backup. it’s sooo obvious.

Woj

@ Lefty
My goodness man get a clue.
You have such a silly mancrush on Timmy (Worst Starter in the NL in 2012) that you rank his utter failures and ineptitude this season over the worst loss in Giants history?? -i.e. Game 6 of the 2002 World Series whern the Giants were 8 outs from a World Title??

This line of ‘logic’ word used very loosely explains to me why the same party that has thrown CA into the fiscal toilet keeps gettign re=elected to fix messes they created themselves.

For any real Giants fan the WORST moment in the S.F. segment of the franchise was the Game 6 WS 2002 loss – Nen gave up his right arm to try and hold the lead, Kent and Bonds both rank that their worst moment in baseball ever .. and so do real Giants fans myself included.

Woj

There is no scenario known to man that I want Eli I can’t hit > .200 at any level Whiteside on the Giants 25 man roster.

DFA Burriss, demote Timmy to the bullpen or D/L him to the munors, bench Crawford, get a new hitting coach, possibly get a new manager, DFA Freddy Sanchez to make room on the 40 man, DFA Huff, trade for a closer, get another reliable bullpen arm, promote Romo to closer … these are moves I would support. Giants braa’ inaction is killing this team.

Bdub

Left…tongue was firmly in cheek about Villalona. As for Oropesa, of course follow him very closely. He has huge holes in his swing and needs to tighten things up if he doesnt want to get eaten up by MLB pitching. Right now, he’s on a sort of Carlos Pena track in all phases – glove (very good), average (very not good), power (very good), strikeouts (very not good). Time will tell.

Lefty

cc: “You’re Not From Texas” was their closing number last night! (The one before the encore, anyway.) Such a great show. Took my mind off that awful game. I left in the fourth inning of today’s to see “Spiderman.” I think I need an All-Star Break, too.

Foothills Ryan

I hope Lincecum spends the break at In’N’out. He looks ridiculously thin. What’s going on with the Giants inability to maintain healthy player weights? Great job on Lincecum and Sandoval, staff.

So not going for it is “dour”, eh? Well, what about next year. Any big move would probably involve Gary Brown. Kyle Crick would be next in line. Maybe Tommy Joseph could draw some interest. Hector Sanchez would. Brandon Belt could be asked for. Any improvements for this years team involve thinning out and already thin farm. There would only be a a few mealy peaches left on the tree.

The Giants need to build. They can build and compete at the same time, so long as the pitching holds up it’s end of the deal. Cabrera, Posey, and Sandoval need to be the core. Belt needs to step up -without feeling too much pressure – and provide that additional piece of offense. Everyone else needs to just set the table , knock in a few runs and stay out of the way.

Build for the future by developing the guys you have. Crawford can be a .250 hitter. And so long as he picks it clean, he’s fine. Belt’s defense looks stellar. His bat is not that far off. Theriot can hold the fort for this year and even come back next year as a bridge to Panik. Pagan and Schierholtz are expendable. They are not part of the long-term plan. Let’s see what Peguero, Kieschnick and eventually Brown can do.

You’re going to hear this from me- until I change my tune … which is entirely possible.

But it is the right way to do things. The Giants get caught up doing things the wrong way. They waste draft picks, they make unsettling trades to “go for it”, they sign off on horrendously bad contracts, they dont’ sell high.

Can you imagine it they had the prescience to trade Lincecum over the Winter when he decline an extension with the Giants. I bet the Yankess would’ve sent prospects at the time. But no, they had formed a rigid thought pattern about their pitching blueprint. No matter how expensive the rotation was going to be, they believed this was the “gold standard” and foolproof.

Well, it won’t take much to get fooled in the second half. If Cabrera doesn’t hit .350. If Sandoval continues to swing at the rosin bag. If Posey continues to look fatigued. If Belt’s development occurs at glacial pace…

… then you know where the Giants will be in October. Playing golf.

But at least they’ll have the farm and they’ll have flexibility. Sign Cabrera and build from this core. Maybe go for Quentin, Upton, or Swisher as a free agent in the offseason. Hope for Lincecum to at least be a .500 pitcher.

The future is the future. Now will be over before you know it with regrets aplenty.

Foothills Ryan

Clutch,

Is your male nurse named Ben.

Ben Dover?

Lefty

Woj: I’m not a man, and I have a Mama Bear desire to adopt Timmy, feed him up, and ground him for smoking weed. If you reread my post more carefully, you’ll see that I said I ranked them chronologically (most recent first) and only covered the last 20 years. They’re all awful. Watching Buster get injured like that–live–was actually traumatic. I still get tense any time there’s a play at the plate, and I’m not exaggerating.

Bdub: Yep, a long way to go on Oropesa. As far as I know, he’s the most interesting 1B in the system right now.

Mr. Randy Watson

I agree with CC @ 5:38. What this team does in the second half is going to be very telling about the type of character they have. For all the talk of how much they love the huge fan support, love playing in the AT&T environment, the overwhelming all-star votes, the camaraderie between the new outfielders, the love-fest for Matt Cain’s PG.. they’ve talked the talk. Now it’s time to back it up.

And as much as I’ve agreed with Foothills Ryan’s comments as of late, I just can’t start using terms like “rebuilding year” quite yet. After the Dodger series I was hearing questions like “could the Giants be the best team in baseball?” on KNBR. Now, after playing first place teams four straight series, in which they went 6-7 (not so bad), people are giving up on the season.

The starting pitching is still great. Anyone who thinks otherwise, has just been spoiled as of late and doesn’t realize how fortunate we are to have 3 starters putting up ace-like numbers. The offense is still improved, even with the recent lack of production. The team is healthy, something always taken for granted until a key player gets injured, then we all use it as an excuse.

Be grateful we have our health. Hope the little guy can just be .500 in the second half. Hope the 3-4-5 we were all looking forward to can start producing like expected. Blanco, Pagan, and Belt are the wildcards that need to step up. We’ve seen signs from them that they are capable. It just needs to happen. This is still a good team. That is only .5 game out. All is not lost.

Lefty

Foothills at 8:32: Now THAT was a great post. Enough with the Nats and the Pirates. We can worry about them in October. Well, I guess we have to worry about the Nats again in a few weeks.

I think it would be interesting to see what they could get for Tommy Joseph and for either Crick or Blackburn in Augusta (not both). Those two young pitchers remind me of when we had MadBum and Alderson and Sabean kept one and swapped the other. I’m sure Crick is the more visible prospect, but so far, Blackburn has been more impressive. I agree that Nate is probably expendable. Peguero and Kieschnick are both injured, but they won’t be forever, and Brown is moving himself right back into the prospect picture. Doubt they’ll move Pagan now, but you’re right that he’s not really part of the future.

Maybe you also shop (gulp) Hembree and hope that Brett Bochy and some of these college relievers (and Osich in San Jose) can be a future bullpen core? I figure they’ll extend The Beard next year, anyway…

Lefty

Mr. Randy: Also awesome post. Thanks. Breath of fresh air.

Mr. Randy Watson

And yes, I hadn’t seen Foothills @ 8:32, but I couldn’t agree more.

The talk of Greinke and Hamels is just aiming way too high. This always happens when fans start talking trade mid-season. They seem to think these huge names are obtainable. Those are top-tier pitchers. I know it sounds romantic to think of getting those guys, but the price is going to be astronomical, and just isn’t realistic.

Like Foothills said, they can build and compete at the same time. No reason for any drastic moves this season.

avwh

Lefty:
Did Lovett do “Church” or “She’s No Lady”? (Love that whole “Live in Texas” album.)

Someone mentioned the lousy job managing the weights of Lincecum and Pablo. Hey, if you just combine their weights, aren’t they right where they were at their peak performances? 😉

Is there ANY sign that MIL is shopping Greinke? Is it a foregone conclusion he won’t stay or they can’t afford him?

Our boys sure looked like they started their ASB a day early, with all the mistakes, errors, mental goofs, etc.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Footy are those sir walter raleigh jokes just NOW reaching the foothills?

Gigantes15

Maybe Lincecum’s Dad can come out and insult the fans and broadcasters again and hopefully his son will leave town especially if this kind of pitching keeps up.
This is embarrassing now 3-10 and an ERA over 6, if this was Zito everyone would be screaming to get him out of the rotation.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Footy@832 which is it? You coveted Youk and Morneu there for awhile against my protests…

Lefty

avwh: They did “She’s No Lady.” A lot of songs from his latest album plus some standards. Also several numbers from band members’ solo albums. It was close to a 2 1/2 hour show with no intermission. It was just great.

As for Greinke, I read there were scouts from six team’s at his start last night–which turned into another start today after he was ejected in the first inning. From what I’ve read, Milwaukee is dithering similar to what Philly’s doing on Hamels. In both cases, the teams would like to keep the pitcher long-term. The Brewers aren’t 100% sure they’re sellers yet. (If the Phils aren’t, they should be. Yikes.) But if they decide they’re sellers and believe they can’t extend him, they will probably shop him. Same with Hamels.

Greinke got tossed arguing a close play at 1B last night. The runner was safe and ended up being the winning run–so Greinke got a loss after FOUR pitches. Today he started again and went 3 innings, gave up three runs, and left trailing. The Brewers rallied and won the game, or he could have lost TWO games this weekend–not unusual for a reliever, but I wonder when (if) that’s ever happened to a starter.

Lefty

Sorry: “teams”–I do know better!

Mr. Randy Watson

Ha.. how about seeing a starter tossed after four pitches? Ever seen that? Especially when it had nothing to do with throwing at anyone. He spiked the ball out of frustration and it wasn’t directed towards any player or any umpire, and got the boot. That was ridiculous.

avwh

Didn’t Clemens get tossed in the first inning of a playoff game against the A’s?

So that was worse than Greinke’s tantrum yesterday.

Lefty

Yeah, I’m sure the scouts that made the trip to watch Greinke thought it was hilarious. However, some may have been there to also see Wandy Rodriguez, who started for the Astros.

Clemens–yep, 2nd inning in a 1990 ALCS game against the A’s for screaming profanities at the umpire. He claimed he was “talking to his glove.” Who knew he was actually honing his defense for his perjury trial 20 years later?

South City Jim

Houston’s holding Wandy back for Saturday, July 14. Timmy may end battling his ultimate replacement. How weird would that be?

Orange Giants Jersey

Clay Hensley, thanks for contributing to Timmy’s ERA.

South City Jim

Unlike 2010 and 2011 this year’s pen has been cashing in a lot of runs for all the starters.

Foothills Ryan

Randy Watson-

Are we friends yet ? I can’t believe you used “agree” and my name in the same sentence.

Clutch,

Youk and Morneau. What can I say? That is some good gotcha journalism. Here’s the deal. Youkilis didn’t cost the White Sox much in the way of prospects. He’s helping them win games. Morneau was the other contingency plan for the blackhole that was first base. I’ve been a loud voice in the crowd – an early one at that – that has pined for someone like Carlos Quentin. Well, quite frankly I see a lot of holes in the team that one player isn’t going to fix. Carlos Beltran could not fix the holes in last years team. The cost of that transaction may hurt for years to come. Why make another bungling move in consecutive years?

In 2011, the Giants were still drunk on the World Series euphoria. They re-signed Huff. The extended Freddy Sanchez. They thought they could do no wrong and could resurrect Miguel Tejada. When they were miraculously in first place in spite of the Posey injury and the Sandoval DL stint, they did not realize the fool’s gold position they were in. They were riddled with holes in the lineup. The pitching was carrying excessive burden. Yet, they wanted to taste that sweet elixir of championship so bad that they were willing to mortgage the future for the chance to repeat.

I hope there is at least one voice of wisdom in the crowd when they discuss moves at the trade deadline. Bullpen relief like Gregerson and an affordable bench bat should be the extent of their shopping list. I’m all for “letting the kids play” even if they fall on their face. The drop off from the farm can’t be much worse than what we’ve see of late from Pagan and Blanco and Schierholtz.

Livefree

Certainly have to respectfully disagree with the Tim … its not gastball command, its incredibly awful pitches of all varities down the middle.

And to disagree with Bochy: the place you retool is the minors. And if your team is dogging it, that reflects on you.

Lefty

Does this year’s team have as many holes as last year’s did at this time? Last year the situation called for multiple organ transplants. This year it seems more like “having a little work done”–a bullpen arm, a RH bat for the bench.

It’s been an awful week, so it’s easy to lose sight of this: Today’s starting lineup featured only one hitter (Crawford) under .250 (he’s .240 as of this moment). Hector and Blanco (and Belt, who didn’t start) are in the .250s, Theriot, .275, Posey & Pagan, in the .280s, and Sandoval & Melky over .300. That’s actually not bad. Compare it to the Pirates’ starting lineup, for example. The other bench players, with the exception of Burriss at .208, are not bad, either. There’s no screaming emergency here.

I do think we’re on the brink of an emergency in the bullpen and over the brink in the starting rotation (Lincecum, because he’s not just mediocre, he’s got the worst ERA of any qualified starter in the major leagues). So maybe one major move (a starter) and a minor move (a reliever) WOULD be enough, and even worth some sacrifice.

Oil Can Boyd

Giants need right handed power hitting-
trade belt and a top pitching prospect for encarnarcion of toronto-
a 29-year old stud hitter who is on a pace to hit 45 HRs this year

Mr. Randy Watson

Yes Foothills, I’ve found myself agreeing with you more than anyone else lately, I couldn’t believe it either! I take back all the attacks I directed toward you. They were preemptive.

As for 2011, yes they were still euphoric from the previous year, we all were. What if they wouldn’t of resigned Huff? What if they wouldn’t of extended Freddy? What if they wouldn’t of made the big move for a big bat at the deadline that we were all wishing for? There would of been a lot more negativity towards the F.O. for not doing those things than there is now for the failures of those decisions. Yes, losing Wheeler is probably going to bite them eventually, but they had to try. It was their time to go for broke. No better time than coming off a championship season when the possibility was there to do it again.

But this year is different. Sabean made some great off-season moves. Cabrera needs to be signed and be part of the foundation. The pieces are there. They will compete without giving up valuable prospects, and could very easily win the division if they play to their potential. Small acquisitions like bullpen help and someone more valuable than Burriss or Huff of the bench is all that is needed. And of course, Marty is right.. with this pitching, anything is possible if they’re in the post-season.

Mr. Randy Watson

Agreed Lefty. Seeing the starting lineups this past series, against the first place Pirates who are now 11 games over .500, I couldn’t help but think to myself “damn look how much better our averages look in our starting lineup.” Then they proceeded to get smoked offensively. Ha..

And Oil Can Boyd is exactly the kind of thinking we do not need. Thanks for the example!

Foothills Ryan

That’s why batting average is misleading. Take Theriot and his .280 avg. Just about all singles and not many walks. Buster Posey has a low ISO for a clean up hitter. Not enough walks hardly any power.

Offensively, SS is a hole. 1b is a hole. 2b is almost a hole. Everybody but Cabrera in the outfield is looking like a hole. Bad Pablo can be a hole. Tired Posey can’t carry the offense. Sigh…..

They better get their rest and look like big league hitters in the second half and fill their own holes.

Jay

Lincecum is pitching like a bum this season. How much longer is Sabean/Bochy going to put up with this debacle. Penny should start the second half in the rotation while Lincecum sits in the bullpen.

snarkk

Has the media asked tough questions about Tim? The Giants are adamant that he’s not hurt. How do they know?
1. Has Tim taken an MRI on any arm, elbow or shoulder areas as a precaution? If not, why not?
2. Has he had any pain whatever anywhere?
3. Has he had a full physical this season, including bloodwork, to assure that he is truly healthy otherwise?
Given that the Giants management has repeatedly hid or obfuscated injury and surgery issues (the latest being Freddy S suddenly getting a microdisc removal surgery and being almost certainly thereby ending his Giant career), I find it hard to believe there is not any, none at all, physical issue in play here…

South City Jim

BA is overrated. Look at Andruw Jones and Nick Swisher. I remember one year Terry Whitfield had over 500 ABs and hit over .300 and he had 25 RBIs. Tony Perez hit .250 and had 100+ RBIs seemingly every year. Obviously you need table setters, but you also need the hammer. Folks always bring up the St. Louis Cardinals of the 1980’s as a team that won with speed and little power. Funny, I recall those teams having either Keith Hernandez or Jack Clark. Don’t forget also, those Cardinals teams were professional hitters 1-8. What good is a first baseman that bats 6th with a high OBA when #7 and #8 are striking out and hitting into double plays.

It’s hot now and will remain so through August. Advantage hitters. Even our top 3 pitchers will be scored upon regularly after the break. We’re going to have to win many games by out scoring the other team, not just out pitching them. Assuming no further moves, Buster, Pablo, Pagan and Belt need to start driving in runs. If they’re not going to hit the long ball, then they better start driving the ball down the lines and in the gaps on a regular basis. Singles and walks ain’t gonna cut it. This isn’t negativity, it’s fact.

http://mercurynews.com antispy3

Anyone with good power numbers will suffer playing most of their games on the west coast. So picking up a so called power bat won’t do. . .

I think the Giants have to take into consideration the future. They waited until the last minute to extend Cain. They signed MadBum to a good contract. thankfully Timmy said no to the mega long term deal. This displays some form of fiscal responsibility. The Giants (well, perhaps it is spin control) are invariably harping about the future. . .

Thus I think they should bite the bullet & just say no to any rent a player deals that will cost them their top tier (loose usage of this term based on the sorry state of their farm system) minor leaguers (Gary Brown, Joe Panik, Kyle Crick & Clayton Blackburn. BTW; he, too throws righty & hits lefty, just like a past Cy Young recipient we once knew of. Where did he go?)

According to BSPN The Giants are paying Barry Zito $19,000,000 this year, $18,250,000 to the Geek, $12,000,000 to Aaron Rowland & $10,000,000 to Aubrey Huff.

That’s $59,250,000 in bad contracts currently on the Giants payroll. Someplace along the line the Giants have to buck up & just play through with what they have. They need to stay the course, perhaps add some bullpen arms for little cost & possibly bring up Perguro if he keeps improving. They need to water & fertilize the farm produce, add to it with next year’s draft & see what materializes.

Combined with another year of mortgage payments of AT&T off the books they will have a stronger foundation for the future. Sign Melky to a FA deal & see what is needed & @ what cost via next year’s FA crop. . .I know they need a middle infielder’s bat, an outfielder to take a bit of the load off the starters (too bad that can’t be done internally, or so it appears. . .) & apparently another starting pitcher (Brad Penny? Paging Brad Penny. . .) & obviously bullpen help, but competition will be heavy for top tier available MLB talent. The Giants farm cupboards are bare. . .just the facts, ma’am. . .

Walter Guest

Good news (stand be for sarcasm).

Just like in his last college year, Chris Dominquez now has more homers than walks at Fresno. In 146 AB’s he has 2 homers and one walk.

I’d like to be a fly on the wall when the Giant brain-trust comes to these decisions.

“I saw this kid hit one out on a ball that was two feet over his head. He can really swing that bat.”

Or when they traded for Jose Guillen.

“That guy is a professional hitter!”

If they put it on film, it could play in a double-feature with Moneyball.

Walter Guest

What is needed is ownership that takes an interest in and is knowledgeable about baseball. The Giants principle owner has said he has no interest in the day to day operation of the team. So the team, pretty much, is run by a committee. That means no big moves can be made.

Bochy will be here as long as Sabean is here; they think alike. Sabean will be here as long as there’s no one knowledgeable running things. A baseball-smart owner would dispose of those two in short order.

Walter Guest

by

AP

who cares if brown is older than trout and harper. sometimes players dont figure it out until theyre like 29-30 like jose batista. trout and harper are doing amazing things at such young ages but there is NO way you can predict a players success from his minor league stats. you can guess and blah blah but you never know because its such a different game mentally (mostly) and physically in the big leagues. Bowker anyone? constantly at .345 huge hr number and rbi numbers in AAA. we saw what he did at the ML level.

http://mercurynews.com antispy3

. . .Were you proposing a hostile takeover. . .LOL

Socialism doesn’t work in baseball (all professional sports, for that matter. Ask the 56 varied & assorted owners of the Seattle Sonice, the predecessors to the Oklahoma City Thunder. . .)

yn

Alex, I think the AT&T park is hurting the Giants. The big park creates line drive hitters like Cabrera and Pagan. Unfortunately, in this league, we cannot win without home runs. Even in 2010, the Giants hit a lot more home runs than we are hitting now. That said, what is the solution? Bring in the fences? Possibly. Or, this is radical, but have 2 sets od outfielders and 1st base player, one for home and one for the away games. Withe current pace, we will play 0.666 at home and 0.333 away, which is 0.500. Status quo will not work.

Obrother

Clutchup could agree more about batting coaches. When a player fails to hit its NOT the batting coach. Glad you said that because I also get tired of people blaming Bambam and Muellins.

Obrother

CU- meant to say couldn’t agree more. Just woke up and read blog. Hey folks were only 1 game out of first place. The Giants can turn this around and I sure hope Timmy will somehow find his mojo again. We love the guy and it’s painful to watch him pitch every five days but I keep praying that this game will be the game he gets a big W, Timmy style. I think each loss propels him into a deeper hole that’s harder and harder to get out of. The only person who can pull Timmy out of his funk is Timmy. Dig deep Timmy you can do it.

Lefty

antispy: On the big contracts: You forget Freddy Sanchez at $6 million and Brian Wilson at $8.5 million. Looking at the “$130 million payroll” obfuscates all of that “dead” money. Really the only money on your list and mine that isn’t completely dead this year is Zito, who’s giving us some value (but not FULL value).

Plenty of money available to upgrade where needed–if used wisely. I do sense that they’ve learned from the Rowand/Zito major fiascos. (I’d also say Huff, Freddy, Renteria, & DeRosa were minor fiascos–minor because of shorter contracts.)

Pacman 68

Willingham and Broxton. Team wins the division and is a serious threat for another World Series.

Dr. Watson, I could not agree more. Rebuilding years are for perpetual low payroll loosers like the Pirates, the Royals, the A’s. They are not $100M plus payroll teams like the Cubs and the Giants.

Lefty

Lincecum’s situation reminds me of…Aubrey Huff last year, including Bochy’s comments: “We’re going to keep putting him out there…hope he turns it around in the second half…we need him.” It was worse in one sense with Huff because he played everyday, but on the other hand, a starting pitcher can have a much bigger and more immediate effect on a game.

Beyond loyalty–which I’m sure Bochy feels toward Lincecum just as he did (does?) for Huff–at this point, Bochy has no other options (except maybe the short-term one of skipping a start). Eric Surkamp hasn’t thrown a pitch since March. Hacker and Petit are the best pitchers in Fresno, but they’re not that great. Heston’s in AA and he’s been struggling in his last five starts. Penny? He had shoulder issues; could he really be stretched out as a starter again, and would he be effective enough?

No options unless there’s a trade…

Walter Guest

Off topic:

Been reading the Memoirs of Gen. Sherman online at Project Gutenberg and was surprised how much he was involved in the early history of San Francisco. He first visited when it was called Yerba Buena, Pop. 400, mostly Sandwich Islanders. He was present when the first nuggets were brought in from Sutter’s Mill and describes the effect of the gold rush (600 ships abandoned in the bay). He was managing partner of a major bank on Montgomery St. and describes how the city grew.

I had no idea.

Lefty

Pac: Willingham is an interesting option. In some ways, obtaining him now would be like signing Aubrey Huff to a two-year deal after the 2010 season: Willingham is having a very good age 33 season and is signed for two more years at $7 mil. per.

One positive difference with Willingham is that he’s been consistent for at least six years–played a lot of games, every year 15 bombs or more (more years in the 20s), good OBP in the .350s, OPS consistently over .800. No good-year, bad-year pattern like Huff. I also like that he has extensive experience in both leagues, so no NL effect to worry about.

On the other hand, there’s his age and the fact that he appears to be a consistently terrible defensive outfielder. Given the Giants’ need for RH power, is it worth the $17.5 mil. or so you’d have to commit to him over the next 2.5 years? Will he be any good at ages 34-35? Huff wasn’t.

Maybe it is worth it. Seems borderline to me.

Not as sold on Broxton. He gets injured a lot (which isn’t surprising when you, well, LOOK at him), and I remember how he imploded for the Dodgers after the ASG in 2010. He was bad (and injured) in 2011, too.

Pacman 68

Trade Pagan, Nate and one of our catchers. BrIng up Dineros boy Brown. Toss him out there and get Willingham and Broxton!!
THATS A GREAT LINEUP !
Blanco
Brown
Melky
Posey
Willingham
Pablo
Belt
Arias

Lefty

…Except that you have four outfielders and are missing a middle infielder…

Pacman 68

Lefty, Willingham puts fear into pitchers. Just like Pat does. He’s controlled for 2 more years and you know what you are getting with him. Might even put a spark into Huff.

Broxton is a poor man Houston Street. I’ll take him though.

I also like Lowrie from the Astros. But he may be expensive.

I also like Clutch Up’s idea about Todd Helton

Last year the brass had tunnel vision. Be smart and get player you can get. Willigham and Broxton.

Giants should stay away from Grienke. He Beltran from last year.

Pacman 68

Sorry should read

Brown
The riot
Melky
Posey
Willingham
Pablo
Belt
Arias

Obrother

Good read in this morning mercury. Not sure I agree but he does make some good points.

Todd Helton makes a ton of money and he’s been a burden for the Rox going on 3 yrs. now. Huston Street is no solution either. Look to Seattle as a trading partner, lots of under achieving talent there that could be had.

Lefty

Yeah, Willingham is an intriguing possibility. It might be worth the money, but what would it take in trade to get him?

No thanks on Helton. He’s hitting .235 and his OPS is lower than Belt’s. We already have an over-the-hill, high-paid lefthanded first baseman. Helton is almost 39 years old! And at least Huff is (was) a legitimate power threat. Helton never was and certainly isn’t now.

Foothills Ryan

The sit tight movement is gaining some traction. The SF Fans could stomach this approach if it meant having a stronger organization to go for it in 2013 & 14 and beyond.

Rebuiling the farm is different from a roster rebuild. The Giants need to build the farm by not haphazardly trading away the only good pieces they have. They need to continue to scout and draft the best available talent. They need to find ways of trading from strength to fill weakness. They can certainly compete while doing this with their core in tact and with free agent fill-ins.

For the second half, can we please what Nate Schierholtz has in the tank? Run him out in right field for 50 ABs. Platoon Blanco between right and center. Mix in a little Justin Christian. Rest Melky on occasion. Bring up whoever looks ready to contribute and is healthy between Peguero , Kieschnick and Brown. See where that takes ’em.

If it’s the last week in July and these options look hopeless, then, and only then (so long as the pitching looks in tact and the division remains winnable) should they package players for an upgrade. And then cringe at the same time.

Pacman 68

If Wheeler was still in our system. He would be taking Lincecums spot after the ASG. Timmy would be moved to bullpen

2holehitting

Entering this season these were concerns regarding 2nd, Short, 1rst, outfield, catcher.
There were no question marks about relief pitching, starting pitching , or 3rd base.

So how did they fair?
By my opinion 3 concerns SS, 1rst, Outfield have not been addressed.
Starting pitching about as expected (but no as you would have thought)
Relief pitching is worse than expected.
Catcher and second have had concerns removed.

Catcher: Could Posey play everyday and return to form of pre-injury? The answer lies in 10 home runs, a 290+ batting average and catching 4 of every 5 games and an all-star vote in.

Conclusions: no concerns

3rd : Expected solid play from Sandoval 300 hitting, 25 jacks.

What you got – Reality another injury took him out of the lienup. While Arias did a spectacular job as a fielder filling in his bat was far worse than Sandovals. Sandovals return has him hitting 300 and the power as of late is returning with several Jacks though his glove appears to have degraded back to the glove of 2 years ago

Conclusions: no concerns

SS – Crawford, can he hit 250 and if not the rest of the lineup needs to. His glove is an asset that can stand below average hitting.
What you got – Crawford is hitting 240 after the slow start the 250, however his gove has been less than stellar on routine plays and his arm though not given errors has about 7 extra bad throws that should have been outs or were save by a good glove at first
Conclusion: still needs to be addressed

2nd – Burris was the speed but could he hit,

What you got – No he can not hit. Speed does not matter if you are not on base. Theriot signed as a free agent has done a solid job at 2nd base but lacks power. Either Short or 2nd should be a 15 homerun person.

Conclusion: concerns addressed

1rst- Power and average needed – Could Huff return to form and hit the 275 with 25 Jacks? If not can Belt or Pill show consistency and power at the plate in plate.

What you got – Huff gone a batting average of 150, Pill sent down with a 213 average, Belt now the dubbed the heir apparent with 4 homers and a slumping 250 average that is only that high because of a nivce 10 game stretch. Currently heading down towards career numbers. There has been little power and poor average from this position.

Conclusion: not solved

RF – Need a power hitting outfielder that hits for average. This was to be Nates beakout year. He has shown shades of power and shades of average.

What you got – Both faltered for Nate and while Blanco initially stepped in as an excellent productive leadoff hitter and a good glove, his average has fallen below Belts and has little power. Even as a leadoff hitter, his OBP is headed towards sub 300.

Conclusion: still need to be addressed

Center Field: Need a good glove with speed power and average. Pagan has been given the centerfield job.

What you got – His glove is decent but not gold glove by any standard. His batting average is decent but falling back to his card of 280. He has shown periods of excellent hitting with a near 30 game hitting streak. He was the best hitter on the team for a 45 day period but the average has slumped and seems to correlate to his stomach muscle pull. The power showed at the start of the year with 4 early Jacks is gone. This is an upgrade to what was last years version of Andres Torres overall. Without power in right you can not have no power and average glove in Center.

Conclusions: needs improvements. Without power in right you can not have no power and average glove in left.

Left Field: Needed power, glove and average. Cabrera was given the left field job. A 300 hitter for the first time ever the prior year was hoped that he was not a 1 time fluke.

What you got – Starting all-star, most multi hit games in the majors,league leader in hits 350+ batting average and decent power.

Conclusions: no concerns.

Starting Pitching: Was expected to be the cornerstone. All they need to do is perform as they have in the past.

What you got – Team ERA in the mid 3’s is half a percentage point below league average as expected. However the way it is there is not as expected. Lincecums abhorrent year with his 6+ ERA and 3 quality starts in 17 games is the brown spot. Vogelson has stepped up his game over 2011 and proved it was not a fluke. Cain as usual getting better every year as is Bumgarner. Even Zito has shown a penchant for limiting the damage he had been getting into in the past and is at just below league average ERA. Dare say a 4.15 ERA is about the best he has ever done as a Giant.

Conclusions: slightly below expectations but no upgrades required. Just corrections to a person that should pitch to his card.

What you got – After Wilson went down, Cassilla did a nice job for 20 to 21 games. The setup men outside of Romo have been questionable at best. Torture no longer starts in the 9th but starts whenEdlefson, Helmsley, Affeldt et all walk into the game.

Conclusions: needs and upgrade

avwh

As a Giant fan, I’m pretty sure I’d tried to erase this from my memory, but here’s the takeaway for me from Kawakami’s Merc post:

“This is officially worse than any first half during Zito’s career, and we know he has had some doozies with the Giants. (Zito’s worst statistical first half with the Giants came in 2008, when he was 4-12 with a 5.62 ERA.)”

Pacman 68

I don’t know what the twins would want for Willingham. Our surplus of arms is pretty depleted.

What do you think?

Lefty

2hole: Nice analysis; agree with most of it. I think the biggest disappointments (besides the obvious, Lincecum) have been Crawford’s poor defensive play and Nate’s virtual disappearance. Also, I hate Pagan playing CF and would much rather see Blanco (and maybe Christian some days) there–they’re keeping the spot warm for Brown, anyway–he’s supposed to be a stellar CF.

As for 1B, I’m not surprised that Huff didn’t come back strong this year (though I didn’t expect him to be quite THIS absent) or that Pill turned out not to be a major-league ready hitter (but I thought it was worth the look). Belt started out slower than I thought with the power numbers, but like last year, he was yo-yoed the first two months. We’ll see IF he gets regular playing time (Bochy says yes, but he’s said that before and not done it) and IF he delivers when he gets it. Jury out there, IMO.

Lefty

BTW, Matt Cain has been named the NL starter for the All-Star Game.

As someone wrote on Twitter: Yet another reason for the Mets’ fans to hate the Giants. (Remember when Cain hit Wright in the head a couple years ago?) Oh, well–they have Wheeler to make them feel warm and fuzzy towards us.

Papa J

We can panic all we like but the Giants are still going to win the west. To put this BRUTAL pre-all-star break slide in proper perspective, I have only one thing to say about it: It’s behind us.

And for SF:
ATL(.536 2nd)
PHI (.430 last place in the NL East?!)
STL (.529 3rd)
HOU (.388 Last in central, 2nd worst record in MLB)
CHC (.388 Tied with HOU)

Total: 193-232, .454 winning pct (39 games under .500)

The fact is, excluding shared division opponents, we play exactly two
road series against teams with winning records. They play six – and only
one against an under .500 team who happens to be the bad-ass Miami Marlins.
The Giants have essentially already survived NY, MIA, PIT, WAS & CIN. LA
has already benefitted from playing in HOU, CHI & PHI.

Even if Arizona re-emerges somewhere along the line, I like our chances.

I will probably re-post this before Friday’s game just because I know the truly depressed Giants fan won’t even read today’s blog, and they need to see this more than anyone.

demp28

I think we all should be thankful for Timmy pitching the clinching game of the World Series, and that us long suffering Giants fans finally have a championship. Be happy about that.
Giants will be very fortunate if they win the NL West with 60% of a good rotation.
Here’s the big question: Who would have guessed Zito would have more wins at the break than Lincecum?

Obrother

Avwh- that’s what Really struck me about the article on Timmy. I keep hoping he’s gonna find his groove and am so positive on each of his starts but it’s getting harder to do each time he pitches. It’s so frustrating because I just don’t feel Timmy has fallen this much since 2010. I still think its just a downward spiral of each loss building up less confidence just like pitchers who keep building on wins. He’s just on the wrong side of the equation. I’m sure this first half is really playing havoc in his mind. Who really knows how he’s handling it- anxiety, depression, not sleeping etc. it can’t feel good and Timmy is human so I’m sure he’s feeling things he’s never felt before. Hang in Timmy we know you can right the ship.

Noce

Last season at this time the Giants were in first by 2 games over the snakes and 9 games over .500. Things collapsed from there. Its hard to view a record in the middle because of who and where they have played. Recently the Giants ran into hot teams in a short stretch. I think their schedule favors them the rest of the season. They are playing near .500 against good teams and cleaning up on lesser teams. They are winning at home and until the last road trip .500 on the road.

I agree the last road trip exposed were they stack up too a good hot team now. Pitching generally was bad. This does not mean for me whole sale changes.

The name of the game is to get into the race in September, get hot and finish strong. With this playoff system the best team during the year does not always win. Its who is hottest.

My only problem with all the noise about All Star balloting they lay and egg on the east coast. Oh well we won’t get any love for awhile.

I guess I am just too old and been through too many of these to get very excited. My advice to Boch and Sabes:

“If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, ”
Kipling

Crawford’s throw in Washington can be argued as the reason we lost, though that inning was on Casilla. And, yes, Crawford has made too many errors. He’s also a rookie shortstop, basically. Many great rookie shortstops had high error years, so my vote is to stay the course… He will develop just fine.

As for Nate, this is where I get frustrated a bit with Bochy. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why the rope lengths re so dramatically different for players like Nate… There are a few other examples, such as Belt. Some get to play through it. Others don’t… Now, some would argue that these decisions are based on backup availability. Timmy is the best example of that. Not in Nate’s case in this respect: if Pagan were Nate, he would have been sat by now, and like Nate, may have been banished. Nate is streaky… As bad as 2011 was, who seemed to hit all the walk offs?

Back to Timmy… Is the cupboard really that bare? So bare that we can’t find a 3-10, 6.40 guy? I LOVE that young man for his drive, determination, overcome-the-odds swagger… And something is wrong. He will never give up. This is where a good leader comes in… Set him up for success somehow. The Washington start was a disaster waiting to happen. It may sound crazy to many, but why not a shot in relief?

I still like this 2012 team, and we will see if this 1-5 trip was an aberration ( who concocted that ridiculous schedule? 8am??? Really.) take a break boys, and come back rested and committed.

Keep’n It Real

A few thoughts…

* After a horrendous road trip, the Giants are still only a 1/2 game out of first. Obviously not a number that can’t be overcome.

* Assuming Timmy isn’t hurt (this would sure explain a thing or two), I’m hoping he spends some time with his Dad and gets this figured out. I didn’t like hearing on Marty Lurie’s show yesterday about how the Giants have coddled Tim and his alleged child-like temper tantrums in the past…where that approach can now be pointed out as a reason he isn’t as emotionally strong as a MLB pitcher should be at this point in his career. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I’VE HEARD THIS.

* Trades…so who are you willing to give up? Hembree is hurt and any SP in the organization should be off-limits. Brown and Panik should also be untouchables. Susac should be an option for trade, IF it’s for someone not eligible for FA after this season. From the big club….Nate, Burress, and maybe even Hector should be available, IF (again) it’s for someone not a FA at the end of this year. I heard the Helton rumors and unless they take Burress (and nothing else), I say “no”. Cuddyear, maybe.

* I’m backing Crawford and Belt 100%, because they are our future. If we can improve our pitching and get an impact OF…then I’m on board.

* Last thing, I’ve said this before and I will repeat it. The Giants have historically not done well on the East Coast when it’s record-hot out there. Most older Giants fans should be able to recall the days the Giants stunk it up in Philly and Cincinnati when they astro-turf was cooking eggs hot. That’s what this team experienced these last 2 series, so it’s not the end of the world. I kind of wish a couple of our All-Stars could get some rest, but at least they will make the game worth watching.

yn

Bochy says the Giants needed a break, but it seems the Nationals and the Pirates did not need one. If they are tired now, what will happen in September.

orangeandblack

The team is no longer playing for Timmy after the first inning. Somthing’s gotta change.

2holehitting

Uh hard to chase down balls hit over the fence and against the fence.

Matthew

Nice new Posey thread started

Woj

Why do Giants fans say …”they just don’t feel Timmy has fallen this much since 2010. … Hang in Timmy we know you can right the ship.”

I totally disagree and I don’t want Lincecum starting 1 more game for the Giants before August 1. D/L/ him, send him to minors, send him to bullpen, I don’t care – just about anyone can do better than 3-10 with a crap 6.3 ERA. Literally any AAA pitcher in Fresno could be better.

Saying you ‘feel’ Lincecum will get better goes against EVERYTHING results-wise that we saw in the first half of 2012. I live in the world of Reality and reality illustrates this about Lincecum:
— His velocity is down 4 mph since 2008-2009
— He never! has been a paint the corners type pitcher so the loss in velocity can be devastating
— His changeup hits the dirt half the time and no MLB hitter worth a snot will swing at garbage like that even with 2 strikes on him
— He walks more hitters than he ever has previously
— He give up more extra base hits than he ever has
— His stamina is very poor
— His weight is too low
— His confience is very low
— The faith his teammates have in him is super low as it should be.
— S.F.’s record is something like 5-20 in his last 25 starts.

Giants brass is twiddling their thumbs on Lincecum doing nothing when reality says at a minimum he shouldn’t start at all the rest of July.

http://www.na.com orngendblck

The road trip to hell was due more to the heat than anything else. The Giants seemed a step slow when compared to the Nats and the Pirates, like a AAA versus a major league team.

I am sure that a few weeks ago when the Giants were 7.5 games back they and their fans would be happy to be only 1/2 game back at the break. So do not put a lot of substance into the last 6 games, blame it on the heat and be glad the team is close. The D-Backs may be the team to fear more than the Dodgers.

Timmy has never pitched well in the heat and his last 2 starts were in conditions that are probably the worst during which he has ever pitched. I would prefer to look at his previous 2 starts where he pitched more like the Timmy of old and believe that is how he will finish the season. Still, if he does not pitch well through July and maybe not even wait that long, the Giants must exchange Penny for Timmy in their responsibilites. Timmy going to the pen and Penny becoming a starter.

Currently the Giants are winning about 50% of Zito’s starts and 20% of Timmy’s starts. They need to boost that to 50% for both of them. It is not certain that Zito will continue to pitch as well as he has so there must be improvement in Timmy’s starts.

Nothing the Giants do at the trading deadline will make as much of a difference as to where they will finish in the standings as improving their winning percentage in Timmy’s starts. He is putting the team in such a hole that there is really no hope at winning the game. Timmy or someone else must get better starts in these games. That is the key to the second half of the season.

Kyle Perizi

If TL is hiding an injury he needs to come clean, for the team’s sake. If it’s mental, let the slump busting begin. Getting a 4th starter is imperative.

Keep’n It Real

“If it’s mental, let the slump busting begin”

++++++++++++++++++

goodsam72

re: 55 + krukow this morning on knbr – thought it was interesting that he brought up TL’s remaining minor league options – so he could in fact be sent down to work out his “issues” on a minor league option. while I have heard of doing some kind of DL for hm this is the first I had heard anyone discuss how the option thing would work. When you have an employee who has performance issues as TL does for this period of time – who has NEVER in his career had a performance degradation like this – then dramatic steps must be taken. So I say send him down NOW to work out the issues – mental – skill – nutrition – mechanics — combination of all of the above. But get it fixed – someone of this caliber of performance doesn’t just fall apart without a cause – take the time AWAY from all this scrutiny to sort it out and either find the old 55 or bring up a new one.

Does anyone on this board think that his arm is blown as a starter and he can only be a reliever now ???

ldnearthesea

So, with Lincecum not pitching well, that doesn’t mean some team might not be interested if he was trade bait. Here’s a few possibilities: trade him to Seattle for a good bat and outfielder, namely Ichero Suzuki! By the way, Cody Ross, whom I thought the Giants should not have let go, has hit 13 homeruns for the Red Sox, and he was out for nearly a month. I’d rather have kept him than Huff.

http://aol Giant Hater

Some observations- TL should be sent down to fix the problems- no sham ein that. Many starters/stars have had that happen in the past.
( Fernando V. ). TL could have burned out his arm- only 145lbs this year, lots of K’s over the last several years. LY he was going downhill also from previous years. The only CYA pitcher to win it winning only 15 games a couple of years back( except for mabey a bullpen pitcher.)- but lots of K’s. Moving him to BP might also help. He’s on track to loose 18-20 games, Giants could let it go and see what happens next year- loose 15-20 again- time for a trade to still get value. Small fireballers like TL sometimes have shorter careers than stronger/bigger pitchers.
This is not dising TL, he had his golden 3 years.

http://3renfrews@comcast.net robin

Timmy needs a break. Fans need a break of watching Timmy. Other team’s hitters are begging that Timmy does not take a break. Skip his turn in the rotation. Send him down to the minors for three starts. You cannot in good conscience continue to send him out there every fifth day and tell the fans that your making every effort to win the division. He does not hold runners on. He takes one look at second base and then never looks again. Runners have been stealing him blind and he does nothing to adjust his pattern of pitching. Not acceptable when you are not keeping runners off base to begin with. He throws more wild pitches in the dirt and way out of the strike zone than anybody in baseball. Enough already. Worst ERA in the league for starters. No mas

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