Kid Icarus: Uprising

We can give him hell for saying it so much, but Pit was right. We weren't ready yet.

When Kid Icarus: Uprising was revealed at E3 2010 and subsequently shown off at other trade shows and events, there were often more questions than answers. The demos were just timed affairs that highlighted Sin & Punishment-esque sequences. It didn’t seem like there was much meat to Masahiro Sakurai’s first non-Smash Bros. game since 2005. However, Kid Icarus: Uprising is far greater than that first impression, and more robust than nearly every other game on the 3DS. If you’ve been looking for that wholly original game to get on 3DS, Pit’s return to the spotlight is just that. Simply put, there isn’t really anything else like Uprising out there, and that is a wondrous fact.

My favorite part of the game is the completely insane and crazy story. The game begins as you’d expect a Kid Icarus game to: traveling through Greek-esque locales to fight Medusa. However, you wind up going everywhere, from the underworld to space, as you fight tons of humorous and difficult enemies. Along the way, you’re treated to superb dialogue involving Pit, the goddess Palutena, and a variety of friends and foes. It’s kind of dumb, but it’s some of the wittiest game dialogue I’ve been privy to, including meta references to Dr. Mario, Nintendogs, and the economy. The best part is you’re rarely forced to sit through cut scenes. They are present occasionally, but most of the story is told as you play. It can be a little distracting, but it’s never an irritable distraction because the humor is so prevalent and sharp.

Gameplay-wise, Kid Icarus: Uprising is a hybrid of a rail shooter and a third-person shooter. At the beginning of each of the game’s many chapters, Pit starts off by flying and shooting at enemies. Everything about the rail shooter segments is sublime; the 3D pops right off the screen, and using the Circle Pad to move, and touch screen to aim works wonderfully.

Roughly halfway through every chapter, Pit heads to the ground, and the game turns into a peculiar third-person shooter that feels similar to Smash Bros. in a weird way. The controls remain similar to the rail segments, but you can move freely and your attacks vary between melee and ranged. You can also do “smash” attacks by slamming the Circle Pad into a direction while attacking. These sections are usually the longer parts of the game, and feature some light exploration to gather more loot. To end each chapter, you fight a boss, which is almost always a wonderful experience since these enemies are huge, interesting, and fun to go up against.

Unfortunately, sometimes the controls betray the third-person areas. The touch screen controls are a little odd, and in the game you’re told to approach the mechanic as if “spinning a globe,” which takes some getting used to. If you can conquer the learning curve, you can use the touch screen with deft and ease. Even still, Pit controls very loosely and can be a little slippery. Luckily, the majority of the game takes place in open spaces where this isn’t too much of an issue. There are a few moments where Pit has to nimbly walk across a narrow path or you have fight enemies in close quarters that sully the experience.

There are myriad control options that allow you customize and tweak the inputs to your liking, which helps the perceived issues. The Circle Pad Pro is almost required for lefties, though all it does is make the added Circle Pad do the same thing the main Circle Pad does. There is also a no-stylus mode, but that can only use the face buttons for character movement and the Circle Pad for aiming. Personally, I loved using the Circle Pad Pro, but the no-stylus option was dreadful.

In addition to the single-player, there is multiplayer, which is basically Smash Bros. from the third-person perspective. You can participate in Free For All or 3 vs. 3 team battles across a variety of stages, complete with requisite crazy items (Atlas’ foot is my favorite) and a high degree of customization. You can even create different loadouts for your character, so you can easily change your style when you hop online or play your friends locally.

The loadouts feature different powers and weapons you can equip. Weapon fusion is one of the wonderful collectable parts of the game. You can take two weapons and fuse them together to make a new, usually more powerful weapon. With eight different weapon types and a ton of unique weapons in each type, the system is addictive, rewarding, and fun. For the most part, every weapon is kind of ridiculous, from the Skyscraper Club that is, well, a club with a skyscraper on the end of it, to the Bowl Arm, which allows you to shoot bowls of miso soup at enemies. Outside of fusion, you can find weapons in chapters and also buy them with hearts you acquire by playing the game. There’s even a whole StreetPass and SpotPass component I haven’t been able to scratch the surface of. You can also unlock even more weapons by completing different achievements in-game.

The other collectable aspect of the game is the AR cards and idols. The AR cards are used for two things in game: a lame battle simulator and unlocking idols, which are similar to trophies in Smash Bros. The idols can also be acquired by playing a peculiar Egg Toss game, so you’re not doomed to have an inferior collection if you don’t have access to the highly sought-after AR cards. In addition to that, there are even more collectables and unlockables restricted by an embargo, but we’ll detail everything in our Kid Icarus: Uprising guide.

Then there’s the Fiend’s Cauldron, which effectively gives the game 99 different difficulties. Depending on where you set the slider (from 0.1 to 9.0 in increments of 0.1), you face harder enemies and get more loot. It gets very tough, meaning that even if you’ve beaten the game, you can still go back and face a stiffer challenge with more enemies. The latter is the best part, because it’s not just going through areas with enemies doing more damage; instead, the difficulty just ratchets up the amount of enemies and the craziness.

Kid Icarus: Uprising is jam packed with content, and outside of the control issues, is an amazing game. The 21-year wait for a new Kid Icarus game was completely worth it, because this is one of the craziest and most original games released by Nintendo in a while. If you have a 3DS and are even remotely interested in this game, I highly recommend that you seek this out.

People really should know by now not to trust Famitsu on just about anything when it comes to reviews. The games they've given 10/10 to (and the increased frequency in which they've done that in the past decade or so) should be enough on their own to give people pause.

In chronological order, the games they've given perfect scores to that I have issues with (that I've played):

- Final Fantasy 12 (god I hate that game)- Monster Hunter Tri- Bayonetta- New Super Mario Bros. Wii- Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword- Elder Scrolls 4: Skyrim (note: the PS3 version, as well as the 360 version. NO ONE who wasn't bought off could give the PS3 version a perfect score)- Final Fantasy XIII-2 (I like the game, but it's not a 10/10)

There are other games on that list I find objectionable, but I haven't played them so I really can't judge (MGS 4, Nintendogs, Dragon Quest 9). Famitsu has shown in the past that they can be bought (in at least near-perfect reviews if not perfect reviews altogether), so I don't trust their reviews.

By the way, I didn't get a chance to mention it before other replies came up, but don't trust any review put up by Jim Sterling at Destructoid. He's a professional troll with a rather dubious review record (Assassin's Creed 2, Deadly Premonition, any Dynasty Warriors game, etc.).

Destructoid must be this games "Let's give the Nintendo title a low score and watch the fanboys rage and get page hits" review.

Not Destructoid as a whole, just Jim Sterling. As I said, he's a egomaniacal professional troll who delights in giving high scores to bad titles and low scores to great ones just to piss people off. I really don't have any issues with the rest of that site's reviewers.

As for Game Informer, bear in mind that their review scale is openly twisted. Somehow a 7.0 is officially an average title.

It would seem the general community seems to agree, though, that these aren't bad games

That would be a counter to my argument if I had said that companies paid Famitsu off to give perfect reviews to bad titles. I said they paid them off to get less-than-perfect (and in many cases severely flawed) games Perfect Reviews. In many cases, the games aren't bad (although I loathe Final Fantasy 12), but they certainly aren't 10/10 material. That's especially true in the case of the PS3 version of Skyrim. Also note how many of these "40/40" titles hit in the last 7 years, as opposed to the four that hit before then. No, there's nothing odd about that whatsoever.

If you're not trying to claim that the games are bad, why did you directly quote me specifically asking for bad games, then reply to my question/quote with a list of games?

Because it's a list of deeply-flawed games (and now that I think about it, the PS3 version of Bayonetta had severe loading and framerate issues, which caused it to get highly-criticized over here before it was eventually fixed with a patch much later on). Most of them don't even deserve the Metacritic they have, let alone the once highly-regarded "40/40" Famitsu score. My point was that Famitsu is untrustworthy as a review source, and they are.

It depends on that nature of the flaws and how broadly they manifest, but at the very least deeply flawed games do not deserve to be considered pinnacles of their respective genres (which is what most reviewers seem to view the 10/10 score as). Just the comparison between some of the user scores and the Metacritic scores on the games you researched will tell you that much.

People really should know by now not to trust Famitsu on just about anything when it comes to reviews.

Which is pretty harsh.

And I stand by that harshness. I don't trust their reviews, and I don't see why anyone else should, either. Beyond their pretty obvious grade inflation (which, while certainly not limited to Famitsu, is still pretty bad), there are some other major issues with how Famitsu reviews their games. The article I linked in the above sentence goes into much that further, though it's not as detailed an examination as I'd like.

So... you're saying that Famitsu can't be trusted because they awarded games high scores that you believe to be "deeply flawed", but won't say are "bad" (PS3 Skyrim being the exception - which is an odd case) and that the majority of the internet seems to have favorable opinions of?

So... you're saying that Famitsu can't be trusted because they awarded games high scores that you believe to be "deeply flawed", but won't say are "bad" (PS3 Skyrim being the exception - which is an odd case) and that the majority of the internet seems to have favorable opinions of?

As your own Metacritic research showed, "favorable opinions" does not equate to "exceptionally high opinions". I don't think they can be trusted because they'll give "favorable" to high scores and almost useless 2-sentence "reviews" to just about anything under the sun. I can't remember the last game I heard of that got less than a 25/40 from Famitsu, which given that it's over 50% would be considered a positive overall score.

Feel free to think whatever you wish about Famitsu. I just find them an extremely bad barometer for the overall quality of games. And there's good reason why the only things people cite about their reviews are the scores: the actual "content" of their 2-sentence "reviews" (and I use that term loosely) is pretty frickin' unhelpful. I'd say that we had it just as bad over here with Game Informer, but even that magazine has reviews with content one might actually find useful in making a purchasing decision, and I've actually seen them break out the sub-5.0 score from time to time. IMO, you should only go to Famitsu if you're looking for breaking news in Japan, since they are very good about acquiring that.

I don't trust their reviews, and I don't see why anyone else should, either.

Eh, it's another score to throw in an aggregate. Always good to make that sample size bigger. Then again, I don't get hung up on reviews and review scores with any sort of reaction more than, "Eh, that sounds pretty bad"; "Eh, that sounds kinda good"'; or, "Hmm, that looks interesting." From there, it's one more step to buying the game or passing on it.

As your own Metacritic research showed, "favorable opinions" does not equate to "exceptionally high opinions".

To be fair, most of those games you listed had at least one 100 critic review outside of Famitsu.

And I didn't say that "favorable opinion" equates to "exceptionally high opinions" - but you're falling into the trap that many people fall into when they read reviews online. They look at the Mario Tennis Review, they see it got a perfect score, then they assume that the game must be perfect. They think that perfect score = perfect game. It's not, never has been and never will be. It just means that particular reviewer (or, in the case of Famitsu, four reviewers) just really, really liked that game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, you want to say that some people put too much stock into Famitsu. Maybe. Personally, I think people put too much stock into most all reviews. Opinions and buttholes.

Quote:

I don't think they can be trusted because they'll give "favorable" to high scores and almost useless 2-sentence "reviews" to just about anything under the sun. I can't remember the last game I heard of that got less than a 25/40 from Famitsu, which given that it's over 50% would be considered a positive overall score.

Can't say I follow much Famitsu, but how much of this has more to do with the type of games they review? Did they review That's So Raven for the GBA or Charlie's Angles for the GCN?

Quote:

I just find them an extremely bad barometer for the overall quality of games.

But you just pointed out several games that they said were good, then refused to call the games bad... seems like, while they be a little more generous on their reviews, they seem to fall in line with the general population on what they consider a good game.

Quote:

And there's good reason why the only things people cite about their reviews are the scores: the actual "content" of their 2-sentence "reviews" (and I use that term loosely) is pretty frickin' unhelpful.

err... thanks for parroting from the link you provided earlier?

Oh, and w/r/t your complaints about the PS3 version of Bayonetta and Famitsu's 40/40... the 40/40 was only for the 360 version. The PS3 version got a 38/40 Seems like even that falls in line with your opinion...

I think we can all agree that there is no real, absolute voice that can decide whether or not a game is worth it. Famitsu has always been seen as a respected gaming publication and yet look at how we are discussing their opinion on games and if they are "right" or "wrong". The one thing that could be agreed on is if a game is well made or not. In this case, Kid Icarus is a well made game. But is it a game EVERYONE will enjoy? No idea, all we can do is agree to disagree and share what we got out of the game.

I originally dismissed this title but it's finally starting to intrigue me. My only reservation is this:

Quote:

The Circle Pad Pro is almost required for lefties, though all it does is make the added Circle Pad do the same thing the main Circle Pad does.

I'm a lefty. I've used a CPP before and it's admittedly far more comfortable than I thought it would be from pictures but it's still $20 I don't want to spend and it's still largely unavailable around these parts (or at least it was a couple weeks ago when I pre-ordered Xenoblade).

I'm getting this game for sure--have had it on order since the option went up--but I'm worried about the controls. I tried twice to play Super Mario Sunshine and had to give up because I could never get used to the right stick (if they had given an option to invert it, it would have been fine) even after many hours, so difficult controls are just not something I seem to be able to adjust to.

Did anyone look at the Destructoid review? At the end by the score he said, "Basically, this is like a "7" on your grandfather's blog." That sounds like, as some of you had said, that he gave it a lower score than he felt it deserved just to cause a ruckus.

I'm not so much attached the review scores as I am to the content of the review. Sterling's opinion of Uprising seems more like it was "not for him" rather than the prevailing attitude towards the game which appears to be rather good all around. I'm getting the sense that people don't really like the stand in general though some are harsher on it than others. If I were to buy the game, I probably wouldn't use it since I play all portable games in my bed either propped up against a wall or laying on my stomach (I'm fidgety which is also partially why I keep 3D off).

On an unrelated note, +1 for the avatar, UltraClayton. Llamas with Hats is a favorite of mine.

I get the feeling that some of the criticism of this game is based on the principle of having to package a stand with a game in order to make the controls feel right. I think certain reviewers will have a hard time getting past that.

People really should know by now not to trust Famitsu on just about anything when it comes to reviews. The games they've given 10/10 to (and the increased frequency in which they've done that in the past decade or so) should be enough on their own to give people pause.

On the other hand you shouldn't take the scores given out by Jim Sterling (the responsible Destructoid reviewer) too seriously either, he's known to score stuff completely out of whack (usually far lower than it deserves but then he gave Deadly Premonition of all games a 10/10 as a roundabout way of insulting Heavy Rain).

On the other hand you shouldn't take the scores given out by Jim Sterling (the responsible Destructoid reviewer) too seriously either, he's known to score stuff completely out of whack (usually far lower than it deserves but then he gave Deadly Premonition of all games a 10/10 as a roundabout way of insulting Heavy Rain).

Funny, but I have this strangest feeling that I've said something very similar already...

Quote from: broodwars

By the way, I didn't get a chance to mention it before other replies came up, but don't trust any review put up by Jim Sterling at Destructoid. He's a professional troll with a rather dubious review record (Assassin's Creed 2, Deadly Premonition, any Dynasty Warriors game, etc.).

Any review I have read makes some reference to the controls being a little weird and requiring some getting used to. Well that's enough to tell me I won't like this. I am SICK of "dealing with" or "adjusting" to goofy ass Nintendo controls. This sounds like most Nintendo games since the DS/Wii era - great game with crappy controls. I got tired of thinking "boy this would be awesome if Nintendo didn't shoehorn this horrible control scheme into it" when playing Wii games and the DS Zeldas and I'm not putting up with that anymore. It isn't fun to fight with the controls to play what would otherwise be a great game.

The controls can take a little bit to get used to, mostly because they've never been done quite like this before, BUT unlike some of the games you're referencing, I think they're the most optimal given the situation. (And don't give me nonsense about the lack of dual analog; the game is too fast for that to work better).

Any review I have read makes some reference to the controls being a little weird and requiring some getting used to. Well that's enough to tell me I won't like this. I am SICK of "dealing with" or "adjusting" to goofy ass Nintendo controls. This sounds like most Nintendo games since the DS/Wii era - great game with crappy controls. I got tired of thinking "boy this would be awesome if Nintendo didn't shoehorn this horrible control scheme into it" when playing Wii games and the DS Zeldas and I'm not putting up with that anymore. It isn't fun to fight with the controls to play what would otherwise be a great game.

I've seen people claim that Golden Eye had bad controls on the Wii unless you used a classic controller. I wanted to smack those people. Game reviewers seem to have a brain defect that makes them love dual analog controls over everything else.

Guys Jim Sterling from Destructoid gave Mario Kart 7 a 5/10. When you read the review it really seems like the only reason was that Nintendo did not innovate enough with the title. Seriously, when you buy Mario Kart you know going in that it will not innovate....it is just a good fun time. KI: Uprising is an 84 on Metacritic right now with 15 reviews, and that doesn't even have the Famitsu review in it. So really it is probably like an 87 if you pull Destructoid out. That sounds like a fine game to me.

The controls can take a little bit to get used to, mostly because they've never been done quite like this before, BUT unlike some of the games you're referencing, I think they're the most optimal given the situation. (And don't give me nonsense about the lack of dual analog; the game is too fast for that to work better).

I agree. I still prepare the stylus control over the analog stick, especially with FPS, TPS, and other games that includes aiming. It's more accurate and the handling is faster for me. Using the touch-screen is also preparable on some games like Professor Layton, Hotel Dusk, Ghost Trick, 999, etc. since analog sticks are limited and slow. I think getting different control schemes for some new games are a must to make games feel fresh and new.

I've seen people claim that Golden Eye had bad controls on the Wii unless you used a classic controller. I wanted to smack those people. Game reviewers seem to have a brain defect that makes them love dual analog controls over everything else.

I think it's more that certain motion control-loving gamers have a "brain defect" that gives them a massive persecution complex. ::) People like playing games they way they like to play them. I find dual analog a much more comfortable and relaxing way to play my games, so that's what I use. You like the responsiveness, immersion, and accuracy of pointer control. The great thing about the Wii GoldenEye is that it accommodates us both, something I wish a great deal more games on the Wii had done and I hope we see a great deal more of on the Wii U.

I am really interested in this game, but the controls do worry me, there is one thing that ruins an experience for me, and that is awkward controls. Still will consider it though, hopefully they release a demo.

My beef with touchscreen controls is mostly ergonomics. Using a touchscreen in a fast-paced videogame while holding the system with the same hand you are using to control the directional pad/stick is just stupid wrist-killing design. I can't think of any other touchscreen usage in history that asks the user to hold the device, operate buttons and use the touchscreen all at the same time. The way the DS/3DS is designed touchscreen usage should be exclusive where a game is either a touchscreen game or it uses the normal controls. Using BOTH at the same time is the problem.

For decent pointer control a mouse is the only ergonomic way to go. Constantly holding your arm out to point the Wiimote at the screen in games like Metroid Prime 3 isn't comfortable either.

Options is where it is at. Why can't they let people play this game with dual analog if they want to? If it isn't as precise then tough shit for that player. I guess the game is more challenging for him then. But then maybe that design is more intuitive for him. Maybe for him that makes the game less challenging depending on how good he is with dual analog or how bad he is with a touchscreen. Maybe giving up the precision is a worthy trade-off for better ergonomics in his mind. That's why we have options. That's why lots of games that use a d-pad let you also use an analog stick. Yes a fighting game or shmup fan would laugh at someone using an analog stick for digital input but no one cares if the option is there. No one cares that SSB Brawl supports motion control when no serious player uses it.

Nintendo even has a bug up their butt about simple button mapping. WHY? What sane reason other than "we're stubborn control freaks" is there to not offer the option? Unless it is absolutely impossible to map things to an alternate control scheme (which is the case with some games) just let everybody play the way they want.

I really don't like it when the internet grabs their pitchforks whenever a reviewer falls out of line. Unless a review is factually false, minority opinions are more valuable IMO than yet another review that falls in the consensus and says nothing new.

So often you read comments about how a game is "overrated" and people wondering "I really thought I'd like this since it's so well-regarded, how come no one made a big fuss about these flaws that are ruining my experience?". Well, most of the time, these outliers did point those flaws out. You were perhaps just too busy making up theories in your head about the reviewer risking his long-term relationship with the publisher in favor of a few quick hits to notice.

I don't think Jim genuinely finding this game "meh" is really out of the realm of possibilities. I think his score matches his review.

I'm way more surprised to read the following from Marty Sliva's review on 1up:

Quote:

Kid Icarus Uprising doesn't altogether fall apart once Pit lands, but a multitude of glaring flaws appear as soon as his feet touch solid ground. For starters, roaming through these environments will inevitably leave you questioning a slew of the game's design choices, such as why does Pit move with such a strange gallop? Why is jumping, a major mechanic in the original titles, relegated to a consumable powerup ability? And speaking of abilities, is it really a good idea to force players to look away from the action in order to slide through a list of powerups? For as great as the aerial segments are executed, the land battles consistently feel rough and unfinished. This is also brought to light by the fact that the melee combat plays out like a button-mashing crap-shoot compared to the skilled accuracy promoted via ranged attacks. And then there's the control setup, which may end up being the one facet of the game that everyone can agree is a bit of a mess.

Maneuvering Pit in a 3D environment quickly becomes a cumbersome task, leading to an ailment that may go down in infamy as the "Icarus Claw." It honestly becomes physically uncomfortable to play the game after about 30 minutes. If you're right-handed, you'll be using your left hand to hold the 3DS, move Pit via the analog stick, and fire using the L trigger. At the same time, your right hand will be busy using the stylus to navigate your reticule, control the camera, and choose various abilities on the bottom screen. The fact that your left hand is forced to assume a sort of claw-like pose will inevitably lead to muscle pains after only a handful of missions. Lefties are given the option to use the Circle Pad Pro to essentially reverse the control scheme, but I can only imagine that the extra weight makes this even more of a hassle. Nintendo was obviously aware of this problem, and tried to deal with it by including a plastic stand with each copy of the game that allows you to prop the 3DS up on its own. While this does alleviate some of the burden, it's not a suitable solution if you're playing the game anywhere but at a desk. This whole mess makes you questions whether there could there have been a more comfortable control system for this game, and if not, should it have been created for the Wii instead of the 3DS?

Does that look like the game deserves the B+ (or 8.5 if you prefer) it got, to you?

If a reviewer or gamer doesn't have the same issue, fine. But this reviewer did, and I'm dumbfounded as to how he ended up giving the game as high a score as he did.

Quote from: UltraClayton

Did anyone look at the Destructoid review? At the end by the score he said, "Basically, this is like a "7" on your grandfather's blog." That sounds like, as some of you had said, that he gave it a lower score than he felt it deserved just to cause a ruckus.

That's their scale, though. They just prefer to dedicated more of their scale for the good games than the usual "anything below 7 isn't worth your time" most sites use. A 6 on Destructoid is still a recommended game to some degree.

I've seen people claim that Golden Eye had bad controls on the Wii unless you used a classic controller. I wanted to smack those people. Game reviewers seem to have a brain defect that makes them love dual analog controls over everything else.

I think it's more that certain motion control-loving gamers have a "brain defect" that gives them a massive persecution complex. ::) People like playing games they way they like to play them. I find dual analog a much more comfortable and relaxing way to play my games, so that's what I use. You like the responsiveness, immersion, and accuracy of pointer control. The great thing about the Wii GoldenEye is that it accommodates us both, something I wish a great deal more games on the Wii had done and I hope we see a great deal more of on the Wii U.

If that was their argument, fine. The problem is that they act like dual sticks are more accurate and faster and whatnot.

Having just spent four hours with the game I'm afraid I have to disagree with this review. Using the stylus on such a small screen to both aim and spin the camera completely undermines the ground sections of the game. I'd have gladly taken fewer weapons and lower production values if in return Sora had either spent more time designing a control scheme that worked with the game they built, or rebuilt the game to accomodate the system it was one. As it stands, what could have been a great game, is instead a flashy but frustrating one.

I don't know which displays the more arrogance. The fact that Nintendo thought it was ok to release a handheld with one analogue stick then subsequently try and sell people a peripheral which adds a second, or the fact that despite Kid Icarus: Uprising being in dire need of a different control scheme nobody bothered to tell the developer of the game that such a peripheral was being created.

On that topic. How come Capcom had sufficient knowledge and time to implement a dual circle pad control scheme for Resident Evil (which was released weeks ago) but Sora did not? I mean, Kid Icarus is a Nintendo property. That doesn't even make sense.

I don't know which displays the more arrogance. The fact that Nintendo thought it was ok to release a handheld with one analogue stick then subsequently try and sell people a peripheral which adds a second, or the fact that despite Kid Icarus: Uprising being in dire need of a different control scheme nobody bothered to tell the developer of the game that such a peripheral was being created.

On that topic. How come Capcom had sufficient knowledge and time to implement a dual circle pad control scheme for Resident Evil (which was released weeks ago) but Sora did not? I mean, Kid Icarus is a Nintendo property. That doesn't even make sense.

Having dual analogue on a handheld isn't a big deal. Nintendo didn't intend to release something like the Circle Pad Pro, they created it just because Capcom wanted it (for Monster Hunter).

As for KI using it, meh. Sakurai likely didn't want to use dual analogue controls, the CPP is only supported to make it easier for lefties to play. I don't see any arrogance.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo would have preferred not to add a second Circle Pad, but I'm also pretty sure they would have added a third if Capcom had insisted they needed it for Monster Hunter. There was no arrogance there; it was purely a business move to secure the sales machine that Monster Hunter is in Japan. If you look at how they've done it in North America, with GameStop and Nintendo Online Store exclusivity, it almost seems like Nintendo's trying to make sure they don't sell enough of them for it to gain significant support outside of that.

As a huge Sin & Punishment fan I would have to agree. Sin & Punishment 2 was an excellent game, and the controls allowed that game to do crazy stuff that just would not have been possible in the original. Maybe that's what I'm getting at though. Imagine how cool Uprising would have been had it been released on Wii.

A few minutes ago I just finished playing through the 5th stage, the aerial section of which was funny, interesting and had loads of cool nods to another great Nintendo series, but in my experience (and that's all it is) the instant Pit touches ground he slides all over the place with the camera swiveling around him wildly.

Even in the game itself the motion of moving the camera is described like that of 'spinning a globe', which is a completely accurate description. Try spinning a globe and then as it's spinning dropping your finger on a specific country. You may get better at with practice but you won't be able to do it consistently or with any confidence that you'll hit your target. OK, so maybe the camera isn't that bad, but neither is it good enough to deal with this sort of third person action.

Yeah, good point. I guess Monster Hunter would explain that, but I'd still like to think that Nintendo has intelligence enough to not only identify a potential issue such as this, but also to realise that they've just constructed something which could conceivably address it.

Even in the game itself the motion of moving the camera is described like that of 'spinning a globe', which is a completely accurate description. Try spinning a globe and then as it's spinning dropping your finger on a specific country. You may get better at with practice but you won't be able to do it consistently or with any confidence that you'll hit your target. OK, so maybe the camera isn't that bad, but neither is it good enough to deal with this sort of third person action.

Yes, it's a pretty accurate description. It'd be funny if Nintendo released a Trackball Pro for the game. That said, it didn't take me long to adapt to the scheme once I understood how it worked, and I think it works great. The only part where it's a bit troublesome is in close quarters when you've got people behind you (but I'm not sure any other scheme would be better in this situation unless you had auto-locking), and the special ability icons should have been made bigger and without the scrolling menu.

People really should know by now not to trust Famitsu on just about anything when it comes to reviews.

Which is pretty harsh.

And I stand by that harshness. I don't trust their reviews, and I don't see why anyone else should, either. Beyond their pretty obvious grade inflation (which, while certainly not limited to Famitsu, is still pretty bad), there are some other major issues with how Famitsu reviews their games. The article I linked in the above sentence goes into much that further, though it's not as detailed an examination as I'd like.

I'm sorry, but that article reads like it was written by someone with too high of an opinion about himself. I get that it's his "profession," but he's clearly takes himself way too seriously. I couldn't take his opinion more seriously than he takes Famitsu's reviews.

Wow. A lot of back and forth, here. Personally, I have a Circle Pad Pro, so I intend on using it, which I think will make the control scheme a lot easier on the hands.

I mean, I'm a little shocked at all the negative backlash- I thought the control scheme seemed a little unorthodox, but it is at least intuitive and fresh. Personally, I enjoy stylus implementation whenever I can get it- the DS Zelda games are so fun because of their wonderful controls that are so quick-access and fun. But we'll just have to see about this one.

I wasn't interested in this game when it was first revealed, as it look like a shoot-em-up and I'm not interested in those. It sounds like it has a lot more than that, but I have a hard time getting past bad control, which is something that practically every review mentions. I haven't liked any DS game that uses both the stylus and buttons, so I think I'll wait until this game hits the bargain bins.

This is pushing me awful close to getting a 3ds. Despite being an avowed 3d lover I avoided buying it until the better games come out and it seems they really have now. I'm going to to try to hold out a little bit more but it is getting tough. Being a Nintendo game this thing won't be dropping in price either so waiting is losing its benefits.

I love new control schemes. A lot of people who call themselves gamers hate them because they have gotten used to and mastered the old systems and hate learning something new that gets rid of that. I'm the opposite and love learning new control schemes becasue of the challenge, new experiences, and sometimes better controls they can bring if you are open to them.

Even in the game itself the motion of moving the camera is described like that of 'spinning a globe', which is a completely accurate description. Try spinning a globe and then as it's spinning dropping your finger on a specific country.

That's for fast turns, obviously after a fast turn you'll still need to do precision aiming. It's like that with any control style, after a fast turn you first need to identify the targets you see now and then move your crosshairs over them because you simply cannot do a fast turn AND end up right on top of the target (except by random chance) since you cannot see it before turning.

I'm in love with this game--it's hands down the best game on the system. Anyone complaining about the controls obviously doesn't play very many 3/DS games--years of Picross have strengthened my hand muscles.

My only gripe is that that the bland/generic enemy designs that haunted Super Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary are back, though boss designs are fantastic.

I wish the weapon impacts felt more powerful, they're kinda on par with the guns in Comic Jumper right now in that they feel like they aren't really doing damage. Just a lot of light flashes and after a while the enemy just explodes, especially jarring with bosses which always feel weaker than they should be.

On the other hand multiplayer is brutally hard, at least bot matches. I can hardly tell WTF is going on there. Gives great loot though, better than the stuff I can get out of the campaign at difficulties around 5.0.

I wish the weapon impacts felt more powerful, they're kinda on par with the guns in Comic Jumper right now in that they feel like they aren't really doing damage. Just a lot of light flashes and after a while the enemy just explodes, especially jarring with bosses which always feel weaker than they should be.

On the other hand multiplayer is brutally hard, at least bot matches. I can hardly tell WTF is going on there. Gives great loot though, better than the stuff I can get out of the campaign at difficulties around 5.0.

Should play at least 7 :P: . Anyways, I have to agree on some of the weapon they don't feel like they have as much weight as a they should. I think the game would have benefited a little bit from giving weapons pushback on enemies. On bosses they could really use a Life Bar or better yet decaying as you kill them, so they lose armor and just start looking worse as things go on. It is generally jarring to beat a boss because its very sudden.

Also hammers should be able to deflect shots when you are in ground phase as well. I was a little jarred when I found they couldn't.

Got the game at release. Had some issues with the controls the first few stages but that's pretty much gone now. It really came down to being able to hold the 3DS in a comfortable position so I didn't break the 3D and once I got that things went great. Have no complaints outside of that part the game. Has been a joy to play.

I don't think this is intended to be a portable game. At least not the way you play a game on the train or bus. I really think it's meant to be played at home or at a gathering of with friends. I assume Monster Hunter on the PSP and 3DS are meant to be played the same way. I have no problem with that at all either.

I started this game up earlier, and I'm liking it a lot. I'm still adjusting to the controls, but I can't see them working better any other way. I'm hooked on all the customization aspects, with the weapon fusing and configuring your powers on the grid