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Kant thanks for Clint Van Zandt's site also.........great article of what he thinks, going back to read his others

Hi Passionflower, I really admire him too. He always made such sense when I'd see him on Greta, no matter what the case was. The other one I admire so much is Pat Brown, and she did a NG show very early on in the case and what she said seems to be panning out. We'll see.

Kant, Thanks for this thread and all the articles. Fascinatin', and I see we're already learning new things in profiling. xox

Here is another thing that has hung me up since the very beginning of this case: RC says he see's Misty standing at the front door as he pulls up. Isn't there a screened in porch? Did he mean she was standing at that door, the door to the screened in porch? If so... why would she leave a sleeping boy clear inside in the bedroom and the back door wide open with one child already missing.... but she's standing outside on the FRONT porch?? Hello???? Who would do that and not be terrified someone would come back in for him too???

Maybe because MCC knows nobody's coming in the back door to take JR, because she's the one who "Bricked" it??? just saying!

Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?

The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?

yes there is that, especially since Ron said when he got home she came running out saying "YOUR daughter is missing!" Not Haliegh or OUR daughter.

Hi Passionflower, I really admire him too. He always made such sense when I'd see him on Greta, no matter what the case was. The other one I admire so much is Pat Brown, and she did a NG show very early on in the case and what she said seems to be panning out. We'll see.

Kant, Thanks for this thread and all the articles. Fascinatin', and I see we're already learning new things in profiling. xox

(bolding mine) I flove Pat brown, Scandi.

Below is an excerpt about the Cummings case from pat Brown's blogspot.

Excerpt from Pat Brown's Blogspot

"You know about the sad case of the little missing girl, Haleigh Cummings who has been missing for three weeks now. The news stories about this case are already a garish circus.

Geraldo Rivera is doing his usual "irreverent" style of aggressive and tacky interviewing (though I did appreciate that he got Haleigh's father, Ronald Cummings, to look straight into the camera and lie like a dog that didn't EVER do drugs (meaning that the police must have falsely arrested him some ten times for cocaine, meth, marijuana, heroin, GHB, etc.

The girl's father, Ronald Cummings, spouts off obscenities and acts out in weird ways. Add to this a whole cast of squirrelly characters who should be on Jerry Springer - the girlfriend, Misty Croslin, who can't keep her story straight, Haleigh's mother's overly emotional fiance, and the creepy criminal cousin Missy claims is a pedophile. What should be serious news topic becomes a bad reality television show with daily outrageous episodes."

RON CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I love you very much. We will find you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus Misty Croslin shows off her engagement ring as new details pour in about her upcoming marriage to the missing girl`s father.

And the family of abducted teen Tiffany Sessions, who vanished 20 years ago on the same date as Haleigh, never to reappear, arrives in Satsuma to comfort Haleigh`s relatives.

Then, 70 miles away, stunning news in the Caylee Anthony murder case. Where is Casey Anthony getting the money to pay for her dream team of eight lawyers and famous experts? Prosecutors demanding to know if there`s a secret source for the big bucks. Will Jose Baez spill the answers?

Then shock as reports say Rihanna is recording a duet with Chris Brown, even though he`s facing two felonies for allegedly assaulting her. As the case gets over to focus in on domestic violence, I`ll tell you why their punch drunk love is sending all of the wrong messages.

ISSUES starts now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a community tries not to crumble in the face of a devastating mystery. It was one month ago that a desperate and frantic 911 call alerted authorities that little Haleigh Cummings had disappeared from her home without a trace.

SHEFFIELD: I just want to say thank you for everybody that`s doing everything. Haleigh, if you`re out there, Mommy loves you and your daddy loves you and we miss you. We`ll be right here. Please -- please, whoever has her, bring her home. Please. We need her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her ex, Haleigh`s dad, Ron Cummings, who has just gotten engaged, also made another emotional plea.

CUMMINGS: Please, if you have my daughter, bring her home, please. All I want is Haleigh. That`s all I want. I want nothing else, but Haleigh, that`s it. Please, if you have her, bring her home. Baby, if you`re watching, you know you`ll always be daddy`s little girl. I love you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unfortunately, despite a massive investigation, cops stood before the media today and seemed to acknowledge they have absolutely no idea, not a clue, what happened to this precious 5-year-old.

SHERIFF JEFF HARDY, PUTNAM COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: I ask this community to please have patience and to bear with us. And we`re looking for that one lead and that one tip that it`s going to take to bring Haleigh home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So today the Justice Coalition, in a desperate bid to get answers let would-be tipsters know that the reward has been upped to $35,000 for information that will hopefully solve this mysterious case.

In the middle of all of this, the Cummings family is being evicted from their camp site. They are tearing down their tents as we speak. Where will this tormented family go to wait for news?

JENNIFER BAUER, WJXT: Well, I think the big news today coming out of Putnam County, Jane, is that the reward has been upped to $35,000. Investigators are telling us they hope the additional money, of course, will bring in new tips, new leads, talking with investigators today.

They say, you know, people all the way from San Diego, California, to Cape May, New Jersey, are really taking an interest in this case. And the FBI field agent who was here at today`s news conference said the FBI is going out of state, handling these calls, these sightings, these tips. The number still remains at 2,400 and the investigators here still remain optimistic.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Pat Brown, criminal profiler, because what I have noticed, and it`s certainly pretty obvious, is that the law enforcement teams operating on this case are being very, very tight- lipped. They`re not saying anything. They`re not saying whether the family passed the polygraph.

Contrast that to the Casey Anthony, case where there were leaks left and right. Do you think this strategy is working in the Haleigh case? It does not appear to be working. Perhaps they should hold a news conference and tell us everything they know, Pat.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER:

Well, that is the concept, Jane. May have a strategy that we just don`t know at this point. Lots of information that they do believe will eventually bring them in something.

And one of the things that`s very interesting about this case, if you compare it to the Caylee Anthony case, is there are always two options in any child abduction or supposed child abduction: that indeed, a stranger did take the child or the family was involved.

And in Caylee`s case there was a lot of, you know, obviously right away the behavior of Casey Anthony was suspect, so everything kind of focused there, but you will notice that law enforcement still looked around for her. They still didn`t just go with that. They kept their options open.

And I think they`re doing the same thing in this case. There are some concerns with the family, but they`re looking elsewhere.

VELEZ-MITCHELL:

Here`s the problem, Pat. If they don`t say, OK, for example, this is just one example. The family took their polygraph and passed them. Now, the family said, "We passed them," but the authorities won`t confirm that. So people are sort of, well, we don`t know. They`re not letting their imaginations open up to consider other possibilities. And I think that that is a problem. Do you see what I`m saying?

PAT BROWN:

Well, I see what you`re saying, Jane, but I actually don`t think that`s true, because if you take a look at the blogging out there in the blog world, people out there are very, very suspicious of both Misty and Ronald, especially in light of the recent engagement, something that you wouldn`t imagine would happen when you`re focused just on finding this child. It doesn`t make sense that suddenly, you thought, "Oh, let`s think about ourselves and let`s get married and get an engagement ring." Very peculiar behavior.

Actually, a lot of people are looking at that. But I think that`s already out there. So I don`t know quite what the law enforcement are thinking, but I think that they`ve got their plans.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think that you and I are essentially agreeing. I`m saying that assuming that this family is not involved, we should clear them at this point, because that would open the focus and allow people to think of other possibilities and look elsewhere.

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I have to say I disagree. Having worked on these cases before, remember that abductors and people of that mindset are often boasters. And if they know -- if they know that that suspicion is still there, then they may possibly boast about what they did. And if they boast and it`s somebody that will respond to $35,000.

So I think there`s a little bit of a strategy in not letting us know. And I think we should probably give credit to law enforcement for keeping that to themselves. And that`s based on years and years of experience.

And I promise you they`re consulting with Quantico on every move they make. If they`re not, they`re truly remiss.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, sure. FBI was there today. I know they`re doing a great job. They`re working very, very hard. We`re just trying to offer alternative possibilities.

Now, Pat Brown, you mentioned the whole idea of the engagement. Haleigh`s cad, Ron Cummings, proposed to 17-year-old Misty Croslin, the last person to see Haleigh Cummings before she disappeared on Sunday. The couple has come under scrutiny, as Pat mentioned, over that decision. Let`s listen to what Misty and her mom, Lisa Croslin, had to say about just that.

MISTY CROSLIN, FIANCE OF RON CUMMINGS: We`ve been planning this for a while, actually.

LISA CROSLIN, MOTHER OF MISTY: It`s just -- they`ve been getting for me to do it for, like, five months. And I said you all need to wait until you`re 18 and everybody`s trashing them. And I`m going to go ahead and let them do it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Additionally, Misty maintains that the engagement is what little Haleigh would have wanted. Listen.

M. CROSLIN: Everybody might take this marriage thing the wrong way, but it`s not. It`s still focused -- everything is still focused on Haleigh. This is what Haleigh wanted. She`s always talked about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty showed off her engagement ring today, and we`re going to show you that in a second. Still, some are raising eyebrows, wondering why Ron would, at this particular juncture, marry Misty when his daughter disappeared on Misty`s watch and is still missing, and we still have no idea what happened to her.

Jennifer Bauer, what`s the reaction in the community?

BAUER: I think people at first were pretty shocked. I spoke with Teresa Neves today, who is Haleigh`s paternal grandmother. And she told me they`re doing it because it makes them happy. This is what Haleigh would have wanted. She says this is what Ron Jr., Haleigh`s brother, wants. She says the children talked about it. Ron Jr. still talks about it today.

And she said when Haleigh comes home she`s going to be a flower girl at the wedding. They`re going to have a reception once Haleigh comes home. Of course, the wedding itself possibly taking place at the courthouse, we`re hearing, maybe sometime this week.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jennifer -- Rebecca Rose Woodland, another stress on this Cummings family is that they have to pack up their campground. Why do you think the county is giving them a hard time on this rule that you can`t have a campground at an unofficial camp site for more than 14 days? I mean, to me that sounds like going after people who are not putting their dogs on leashes when there`s a murderer on the loose.

REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I guess the county is just trying to do everything by the book. I think they think there`s some conflict. They want to keep everything really quiet here.

As you were saying before, Jane, they really are keeping this very tightlipped, and maybe they`re afraid something in that camp site, something or another there will be some sort of clue that will just go by the wayside.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wait a second. You`re saying this is a strategy.

WOODLAND: I`m thinking so because why would you make these poor people have to remove their campsite? All they want to do is find this poor little girl. So maybe it`s a strategy, and they`re trying to keep everything really tight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll explore that more. Everyone, sit tight. We have lots of ground to cover in this case.

Do you think it was unfair to force the Cummings family to move their camp? Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Let me know your thoughts on this entire case.

And 70 miles away, in the Caylee Anthony case, prosecutors demand to know where Casey is getting all of the money for her dream team of eight attorneys. I will have an update.

But first an emotional news conference with the Cummings family today, made more so because they were forced to move from the spot they have called home for weeks.

TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: We felt closer to the investigation here. Nobody thought we would be here this long.

SHEFFIELD: Just bring her home. Please. We need her. We need her. Just bring her back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A mother`s desperate plea for her baby girl. Heartbreaking.

We are back with my panel and taking your calls, as we try to figure out why this is such a complete mystery. But first, I want to introduce a very special guest.

Patrick Sessions knows all too well the horror Haleigh`s parents are going through. Twenty years ago Patrick lived their nightmare when his beautiful 20-year-old daughter, Tiffany Sessions, disappeared after going on a jog. She has never been seen since. Period.

In a heart-wrenching coincidence, Tiffany disappeared on the same date as Haleigh. Tiffany`s death was so upset over Haleigh`s disappearance, he drove to Satsuma to visit with the Cummings family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sure it brings up some very painful feelings. Why did you feel the need to reach out to the Cummings? And were you able to comfort them?

SESSIONS: Well, you know, we try to work with other families that, unfortunately, are in the same position we were, and I just felt like this was the time.

We normally get involved earlier, but they had great television coverage, and they had good law enforcement activity. So I didn`t think they really needed us at that point. But I don`t know whether you`ve lost anybody, but people who any through what we`ve anyone through and lost loved ones, you kind of hit a wall at about 30 days. And I just felt like they were hitting that wall. I know I hit it, and I thought it might be a good time to try to show some support.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We`re going to go to so many people lining up to give their thoughts on this case, but I want to ask you a follow-up on your case.

How is it possible in this day and age of forensics and all sorts of high technology that a human being can simply disappear without a trace and it ends up in a cold case file and police don`t have a clue? Does that boggle your mind?

SESSION: Well, it does. I never expected to be to be sitting here 20 years later. But I said before, you don`t have to be a brain surgeon to get away with murder. If you get lucky enough to commit the crime and hide the body and nobody sees it, unless there`s some good evidence there`s nothing to go on.

And unfortunately in Tiffany`s case, there was absolutely no evidence. No witnesses, no forensic evidence, nothing. So it`s a classic whodunit.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And my heart goes out to you. I can`t imagine what it`s been like to live with that, not knowing for 20 years.

Now, again, the phone lines lighting up. And let`s go to some of our callers with questions and thoughts.

Ralph from California, your question or thought, sir.

CALLER: Yes, I have a question. Have the police investigated into Misty`s ex-disgruntled boyfriend?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jennifer, what do you know?

BAUER: I don`t know anything about her ex-disgruntled boyfriend. I haven`t heard anything from investigators on them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But does she have an ex? I mean, she`s only, what? Seventeen? She`s pretty young.

BAUER: Yes. All I know, I mean, she`s 17. I know she met Ron when she was 14. I know that they`ve been dating for about the last six months. That`s the only information I know about her past.

But I know her family does live in this same neighborhood where Ronald has his mobile home where he lives with Haleigh and Ron Jr., but beyond that I don`t have any information about any ex-boyfriend.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Kitty in Canada. Your question or thought?

CALLER: I love your show. Who was the last person to see Haleigh other than the dad and the girlfriend?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good question. We`re going to take it back to Jennifer Bauer on that.

BAUER: The grandmother. Great-grandmother, Annette Sykes. She is Ronald`s grandmother, Teresa Neves` mother. She came by the house that night about 7 p.m. She had to drop off some clothing, and I think she did some laundry, helped the family out. She was dropping that off.

She says the kids were eating dinner, and Misty had just made them dinner. And that was the last time she saw Haleigh. And then, of course, as you know, Misty Croslin remembers seeing Haleigh at around 10 p.m.

CALLER: I was just wondering how could the father of Haleigh afford to buy a diamond ring for Misty, and you know, Haleigh was sleeping on a mattress on the floor? It just boggles my mind that he would do something, you know, like that. I mean, buy a bed for the baby. I just don`t understand that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go back to Patrick Sessions, because, again, I always say we have no idea what it`s like to walk in the shoes of somebody who has lost a child. And there has been a lot of questions and eyebrows raised over the timing, Patrick, why little missing Haleigh`s father would decide to get engaged right now to the very woman who was there the last time that anybody saw little Haleigh and sort of -- if the child disappeared on her watch. And then you just heard that question.

Could you give us any insight into why they may need to come together at this juncture?

SESSIONS: Well, the first thing, and I`m not sure it`s fact, but I`d understand that the ring was actually the grandmother`s ring, that she gave that to them. If that`s true, that explains some of it.

I think what explains more of it is you all are trying to understand what`s going on in the head of someone who`s lost a child. And I don`t think it`s necessarily the greatest idea either. But I don`t think we should be standing here trying to judge people that are just trying to get through day by day. And I`m sure I did some pretty stupid things during the time -- those first days.

And as I said, they`re hitting a point now where it`s awful hard to divide reality. You can talk about it all you want, but after 30 days, you realize you`ve got a real problem. And the odds are getting worse every day of a happy ending.

So I don`t know what drove it, but I suspect what drove it is just a moment of happiness in an absolutely terrible situation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Drew, thoughts on this, because there are some people who have been very harsh. We only have a couple of seconds.

FINDLING: Well, again, I`m going to fall back on my position that I think that somebody in Ron`s position really needs counsel. He needs an attorney, even if he`s not a suspect, to council him through this investigation through this stage.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s an excellent suggestion and, unfortunately, we have to leave it right there. I want to thank Patrick Sessions and my excellent panel. Please come back soon. "

OMG your right!! They had to prop it open with the cinderblock because they have to use the whole door thing as the "break in entry" and they know the door doe not stay open and that would have messed up their whole "they broke in through the door theory" because the cops would have said "well didnt you hear the door slam shut?" am I making sense? I just got lost LOL :}

Uhm...I don't think we are allowed to put the whole transcripts on here. Just snippets of a certain percentage with a link.

"WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"
A quote spray painted on the wall by search
and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.

Below is an excerpt about the Cummings case from pat Brown's blogspot.

Excerpt from Pat Brown's Blogspot

"You know about the sad case of the little missing girl, Haleigh Cummings who has been missing for three weeks now. The news stories about this case are already a garish circus.

Geraldo Rivera is doing his usual "irreverent" style of aggressive and tacky interviewing (though I did appreciate that he got Haleigh's father, Ronald Cummings, to look straight into the camera and lie like a dog that didn't EVER do drugs (meaning that the police must have falsely arrested him some ten times for cocaine, meth, marijuana, heroin, GHB, etc.

The girl's father, Ronald Cummings, spouts off obscenities and acts out in weird ways. Add to this a whole cast of squirrelly characters who should be on Jerry Springer - the girlfriend, Misty Croslin, who can't keep her story straight, Haleigh's mother's overly emotional fiance, and the creepy criminal cousin Missy claims is a pedophile. What should be serious news topic becomes a bad reality television show with daily outrageous episodes."

ME! I have hung up on 911! I didn't have time to sit and chat with a woman bleeding in my kitchen who required immediate medical attention until help arrived.

There may have been another time I hung up on them, too. Action requires people to be off the phone and to me...it is a waste of time to sit and answer questions. After I call for a request of fire, police, ambulance...tell them the situation, the location, and such...no need to keep them on the line unless they can help me.

I've never heard of anyone hanging up on a dispatcher while asking for help. They will tell you when it's time to hang up, you don't tell them. If they feel like you know what you're doing, and the situation is under control until LE or EMT arrives, then they will let you know. They will also tell you if you need further assistance before the EMT arrives to not hesitate to call back. But you don't ever hang up first, and you certainly don't do after telling them they are no good, and worthless.
His lack of respect for the dispatcher was telling, right along with his lack of respect for the caregiver. And discovering that his own mom is a dispatcher only further reinforces the the notion that he has no respect for females at all, which is why it's believable that child abuse toward Haleigh is possible. jmo

Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?

The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?

I guess saying "hi, this is the doped up underage teen bed buddy in charge of the child who is now mysteriously gone...." wouldn't have sounded too good.

{bolding mine) I agree, Seriously Searching, that there is urgency and panic in a missing child situation.

However, I don't see the need for Ron cursing the 911 operator and hanging up on them. His termininating the call could be easily accomplished by a simply "thanks; bye" or just "good bye" click - without the cursing name-calling and hanging up in someone's face.

Panic to me does equal name-calling and rudeness to someone trying to help.

MOO
.

Exactly!! In a panic situation, where one is calling for HELP, it makes no sense to be cussing out the operator and hanging up. Ron and Misty apparently didn't appreciate being asked to give out important info. such as address, date of birth, and physical description..... makes me wonder why they even bothered calling.

I posted this once before on the 911 thread--hope it's alright to post it again. The following is my opinion of where I think Ron and Misty fall on the 911 analysis. Any thoughts?

R = Ronald M = Misty

I = Innocent G = Guilty

What was the call about?

I-Request help for victim G-No request for help for victim (M,R)I-Relevant information G-Extraneous information (M,R)I-Concern for victim G-Insulting or blaming the victim I-Correction of facts G-Conflicting facts

Who is the call about?

I-Help requested for victim G-Help requested for caller only (R)I-Focus on victim's survivalG-Focus on caller's problem (R)I-No acceptance of victim's death G-Acceptance of victim's death