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Federer

Nadal

Federer actually did pound Nadal's backhand to great effect in Indian Wells this year.

But historically, Federer's forehand hasn't troubled Nadal's backhand that much. Not because Nadal has a better backhand, but because Federer's forehand doesn't force errors the way Nadal's forehand does. Federer hits flatter and tries to hit around/through you. Nadal just wears Federer's backhand down with shots that jump to heights outside his comfort zone.

It's kind of like how Nadal's serve gives Federer so much trouble in comparison to Federer's serve vs. Nadal. It's just different styles causing different problems. I doubt anyone thinks Nadal has a better serve than Federer.

Nadal does and always has moved better than Federer, though. Nadal's recovery is unparalleled.

nadal's backhand I honestly think has gotten worse. It looked incredible when he won the AO a few years back, but in 2011 and somewhat this year, his backhand was shaky. Federer's has declined also. That shot used to be a weapon. But as of now I say Fed, becasue all round he played better in 2011, and most of 2012

The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.

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That's not even remotely true. Nadal doesn't feed him pace with the CC forehand, yet when they're on a low bouncing surface, Federer kills him with his backhand.

And maybe you missed him drilling backhand winners all match long against Tomic at the AO this year?

Federer's got all the power in the world off his backhand, so long as it's in his strike zone.

It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).

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Federer has the better forehand, is a better server, volleyer, and we can call their backhands a wash. However, until 2011 Nadal was the best mover on the tour, and one of the greatest retrievers of seemingly irretrievable balls in the history of the game. Nadal also has extremely good hands for soft angle shots up at the net; not necessarily volleys, but pick-ups, re-directions and the like, perhaps more so than Federer. Nadal also had, up until the last year and a half, a spectacular overhead. And ultimately and most importantly, from the very beginning in KB in 2004, Nadal had total belief that he was good enough to beat Federer, which approximately zero percent of the other players on the tour had.

Federer has the better forehand, is a better server, volleyer, and we can call their backhands a wash. However, until 2011 Nadal was the best mover on the tour, and one of the greatest retrievers of seemingly irretrievable balls in the history of the game. Nadal also has extremely good hands for soft angle shots up at the net; not necessarily volleys, but pick-ups, re-directions and the like, perhaps more so than Federer. Nadal also had, up until the last year and a half, a spectacular overhead. And ultimately and most importantly, from the very beginning in KB in 2004, Nadal had total belief that he was good enough to beat Federer, which approximately zero percent of the other players on the tour had.

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Nalbandian, for one, never lacked belief that he could beat Federer. This comparison of Federer with Mike Tyson and that people were beaten before they stepped on court is an exeggaration. Some did, but not all. Not to mention, people didn't just start to fear him after he cut off his ponytail or something. They didn't believe they could beat him, because in all likelihood, they couldn't. Everybody saw the demolition jobs he was capable of.

And I disagree with some of your observations. Nadal never had the soft hands that Federer has. (just watch his match against Tomic in AO) But he typically is extremely calm in such situations, moreso than Roger.

I disagree that Federer's BH and Nadal's is a wash. Federer's is superior. Saying their forehands is a wash would be more accurate.

Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa.

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This is all pretty straightforward, and has been understood by most people (by which I mean fans, pundits, and Fed and Nadal themselves for years):

The last statement means that Nadal is superior at imposing a repetitive pattern of play, namely, his forehand to Fed's backhand in baseline rallies. There are two main reasons for this superiority: First, Nadal has a simpler game, so he doesn't really lose anything by hitting the same shot over and over. If the single shot employed is good -- and Nadal's is very, very good -- then the more the merrier for Nadal. In both tennis and table tennis, heavy topspin has always been a repetitive, grind-'em-down tool. In contrast, Federer's greater reliance on variety means that he diminishes his own effectiveness by becoming repetitive, even if that approach also hurts his opponent somewhat. A predictable Fed is a lesser Fed.

Second, Nadal is better-equipped psychologically to lock into a single groove for much of a match. He's more dogged than Federer, more obsessive and consistent, and less concerned about aesthetics.

If Federer had the better forehand and better backhand than the Federer forehand vs Nadal backhand rallies would be even worse for Nadal than the Nadal forehand vs Federer backhand rallies which is far from the case. In fact in most of their matches Nadal's backhand more than holds it own vs Federer's forehand in those exchanges, while the Nadal forehand dominates the Federer backhand. Yet despite this Federer amazingly has the superior forehand, superior backhand, superior movement (according to most ****s, just look at the better mover polls between them), and superior all else from the baseline, even while getting owned from the baseline in 85% of their matches, including a number of his wins. Planet **** is truly a great comedy land.

Nadal's forehand is more consistent and less prone to errors, but it's also less of a weapon. In 2008-2009, Nadal's backhand was incredible. He hit the most insane flat crosscourt winners off of it no matter how wide he was pulled. But he's always struggled taking it down the line and adding variety.

Federer, on the other hand, has a lot of variety, but his backhand breaks down more. I think they both fit their respective games very well. If push came to shove, I'd rather have Federer's backhand than Nadal's, but it's a close call.

If Federer had the better forehand and better backhand than the Federer forehand vs Nadal backhand rallies would be even worse for Nadal than the Nadal forehand vs Federer backhand rallies which is far from the case. In fact in most of their matches Nadal's backhand more than holds it own vs Federer's forehand in those exchanges, while the Nadal forehand dominates the Federer backhand. Yet despite this Federer amazingly has the superior forehand, superior backhand, superior movement (according to most ****s, just look at the better mover polls between them), and superior all else from the baseline, even while getting owned from the baseline in 85% of their matches, including a number of his wins. Planet **** is truly a great comedy land.

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Here in "****" land we're celebrating the World #1 with a RECORD 17 slams.

If Federer had the better forehand and better backhand than the Federer forehand vs Nadal backhand rallies would be even worse for Nadal than the Nadal forehand vs Federer backhand rallies which is far from the case. In fact in most of their matches Nadal's backhand more than holds it own vs Federer's forehand in those exchanges, while the Nadal forehand dominates the Federer backhand. Yet despite this Federer amazingly has the superior forehand, superior backhand, superior movement (according to most ****s, just look at the better mover polls between them), and superior all else from the baseline, even while getting owned from the baseline in 85% of their matches, including a number of his wins. Planet **** is truly a great comedy land.

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Nadal doesn't have a one handed backhand you genius. Nadal's forehand in particular works well against Federer's BH in particular.

Besides, there WAS a time when Nadal has a better backhand. This is not now.

Here in "****" land we're celebrating the World #1 with a RECORD 17 slams.

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So you are a glory hunter, good for you. By the same logic a Laver fan could say they are celebrating his 2 Calendar Slams while Federer wasnt talented or good enough to even manage 1, and while it is proven he is still in all GOAT debates 40 years after retiring, something which is a long way from remaining to be seen for Federer. A Graf fan could say they are celebrating a player with 22 slams and as many or more slams as Federer at every venue (6 times as many at Roland Garros, lol). A Serena fan could say they are celebrating her continued dominance of the womens game and growing greater by the day GOAT talk, and that unlike Federer she dominates the game amongst her gender and all her main rivals to the extreme at age 30. A Kournikova fan could be celebrating that despite being a tennis mug she is richer than pretty much all these other greats we are discussing. A Nadal fan could say they are celebrating his ascent to undisputed clay court GOAT, and probably on clay being the all time GOAT of any player on any surface, becoming the only man in history to win multiple slams on all 3 major surfaces, the only man in history to win a slam on each of the 3 major surfaces in the same year, and his total ownage of the so called GOAT Federer. A Court fan could be celebrating that despite how Americans try to lowball her greatness she has 24 singles slams and 62 total slams, records that perhaps nobody, man or women, in history will ever reach (especialy the latter). And so on...

So you are a glory hunter, good for you. By the same logic a Laver fan could say they are celebrating his 2 Calendar Slams while Federer wasnt talented or good enough to even manage 1, and while it is proven he is still in all GOAT debates 40 years after retiring, something which is a long way from remaining to be seen for Federer. A Graf fan could say they are celebrating a player with 22 slams and as many or more slams as Federer at every venue (6 times as many at Roland Garros, lol). A Serena fan could say they are celebrating her continued dominance of the womens game and growing greater by the day GOAT talk, and that unlike Federer she dominates the game amongst her gender and all her main rivals to the extreme at age 30. A Kournikova fan could be celebrating that despite being a tennis mug she is richer than pretty much all these other greats we are discussing. A Nadal fan could say they are celebrating his ascent to undisputed clay court GOAT, and probably on clay being the all time GOAT of any player on any surface, becoming the only man in history to win multiple slams on all 3 major surfaces, the only man in history to win a slam on each of the 3 major surfaces in the same year, and his total ownage of the so called GOAT Federer. A Court fan could be celebrating that despite how Americans try to lowball her greatness she has 24 singles slams and 62 total slams, records that perhaps nobody, man or women, in history will ever reach (especialy the latter). And so on...

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1 of Laver's Grand Slams was against amateurs. He has just 5 Grand Slams against the real professionals. Federer has 17

Serena, Graf are from WTA, not ATP. I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up. Because no one in the ATP have come close to Federer's accomplishments and you have no choice but to go to the WTA for comparison? :lol: I can sympathize with that.

Nadal's passing shots on his BH side aren't that great. More of a FH guy.

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Really :???: ?So who has better BH passing shots if not Nadal? Djokovic is the only one who comes close and is mostly good at cross court passing shots. Nadal can hit insane passing shots both DTL and cross court. Watch his AO 2012 semis match with Federer again.

I don't agree with Federer's BH being worse on slow hardcourt, he can take it early and the surface doesn't take that much spin.

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Well its debatable. Against rest of the field not including Djokovic and Nadal, I can agree. But Federer's BH is exposed against these 2 guys on a slow HC since he can't hit through the court (example AO 2011 straight set loss against Djokovic).

I disagree that these surfaces don't take that much spin. I mean obviously Plexi and Miami courts are one of the slowest and highest bouncing courts, not sure what makes you say they dont take much spin?

Nadal can't hit DTL with any authority, which is why I cannot accept it being a better shot than Federer's BH atm.

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Yea I do agree he has problems with his DTL BH but its noticeably better than 2011. Overall his BH is a more solid and consistent shot on slow HC than Federer, doesn't tend to break down that often (except maybe some of his matches vs Djokovic in 2011) but as I said above in terms of shotmaking, Federer's BH is unmatched.

So you are a glory hunter, good for you. By the same logic a Laver fan could say they are celebrating his 2 Calendar Slams while Federer wasnt talented or good enough to even manage 1, and while it is proven he is still in all GOAT debates 40 years after retiring, something which is a long way from remaining to be seen for Federer. A Graf fan could say they are celebrating a player with 22 slams and as many or more slams as Federer at every venue (6 times as many at Roland Garros, lol). A Serena fan could say they are celebrating her continued dominance of the womens game and growing greater by the day GOAT talk, and that unlike Federer she dominates the game amongst her gender and all her main rivals to the extreme at age 30. A Kournikova fan could be celebrating that despite being a tennis mug she is richer than pretty much all these other greats we are discussing. A Nadal fan could say they are celebrating his ascent to undisputed clay court GOAT, and probably on clay being the all time GOAT of any player on any surface, becoming the only man in history to win multiple slams on all 3 major surfaces, the only man in history to win a slam on each of the 3 major surfaces in the same year, and his total ownage of the so called GOAT Federer. A Court fan could be celebrating that despite how Americans try to lowball her greatness she has 24 singles slams and 62 total slams, records that perhaps nobody, man or women, in history will ever reach (especialy the latter). And so on...

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And a Federer fan might point out that Federer would go 100-0 with a grand slam every single year on the WTA tour.