It is my understanding that the virgin birth is a Scriptural truth to be accepted by faith. There isn't any proof. The point is that Jesus is both man and God. The concept is that God "fused" His own being with full humanity in the womb of Mary. Thus Jesus is a man, who is also God by virtue of union with the Father.

Paul expressed that the Law was just and holy. It is an expression of God's own holiness. Yet the Law was never intended to be obeyed to bring the necessary righteousness for salvation. Only ABSOLUTE perfection can earn Heaven. That means that if one commits a single sin... that person is disqualified from going to Heaven forever. That is how serious sin is. Jesus, who is believed to be both man and God, is believed to be absolutely perfect. Through the cross, Jesus Christ willingly died in the believer's place, taking the wrath of God upon Himself, fulfilling God's judgment against sin. Just as Jesus took our sinfulness upon Himself (every last sin that has been committed and will be committed), Jesus imputes His own absolute righteousness upon the believer. The believer is then seen by God clothed in Christ's righteousness, absolute perfection, being hidden from judgment.

So Paul didn't necessarily abolish the Law. Paul simply expressed the Law's ultimate purpose in revealing God's holiness, the requirement for Heaven, and how it relates to Christ's righteousness as imputed to the believer.

At least... that's my understanding of it. lol

The Christians have Concocted in hopes of Brainwashing people into thinking that '' God '' ( as they call hin '' Puta child into Mary's Womb . This is a '' Hoax '' . No Women in History , nor in this day and time , has ever conceived a Child without the Aid of a Man . It has never been the will of the '' Almighty '' for Women to Reproduce By Herself . If you know this to be Untrue , then you have to Show Me In The Scriptures where woman have Conceived Children Without A Man and only by the will of the '' Almighty '' .

To Believe in the Immaculate Conception is to Believe that Yahuwa merely placed a see in Mary's Body , by saying '' Kun , Faya Kuwn '' Exist And It Existed '' If this was the case , wouldn't it have been easier to just create a full grown Man , Bashar < Arabic > . It would have sped up the events concerning the The Prophet / Messiah Jesus , life and it would have been easier for both Joesph and Mary . Why didn't Yahuwa do this ? He did it with The Prophet Adam

. In addition , wouldn't that have been the most Simple , Most ideal formula for all the Prophets of Yahuwa to be born . This would elminate having to Groom Women to give Birth to people such as The Prophets . Couldn't He have just made the Trees , Birds , Flowers , already Full Grown without starting as a Seed and going through the Developing Stage . We Definitely Wouldn't Have To Wait To Eat . Yahuwa could have made it this way , but He didn't . Yahuwa created Man , Bashar < Arabic > from the Spark , '' Kun , Faya Kuwn '' . This same Spark gave life to the First Man , The Prophet Adam as well as The Prophets / Messiah Jesus , however , The Prophet Adam was created '' From The Dust Of The Ground '' Genesis 2 ; 7 , And I Quote ; And The Lord God Formed Man Of The Dust Of The Ground And Breathed Into His Nostrils The Breath Of Life ; And Man Became A Living Soul .

Let me show you the Ridiculousness of the '' Immaculate Conception'' . For the Creator to have Produced A Child in the Womb of Mary without a Sperm would mean that Mary's entire Composition was Changed so that She would also have a '' Y'' Chromosome in order to Produce A Male Child by Herself , without the Aid of a Man . Women don't possees this '' Y'' Chromosome , it is the Male Chromosome , Let me explain . Each individual Sperm of a Male carries either a '' X '' or a '' Y'' Chromosome and the Female Egg just carries an '' X

Chromosome . In order for a Male to be Conceived , a Sperm carrying the '' Y'' Chromosome must Meet the Female Egg carrying the '' X Chromosome . This Union cause the Combination '' XY'' which develops into a Male Child . In Mary's case . She being a Female only possessed Two '' X '' Chromosomes .

There is no way possible She could have received a '' Y'' Chromosome without the help of a mortal Sperm . Now , I Ask You Christians Where Did She Get The '' Y '' Chromosome From ? If You Say Your '' God '' Has Physical Attributes Of A Human Being . If You Believe '' God '' To Be Supreme Then He Wouldn't Have Human Attributes .

This is the beauty of Yahuwa . He created Male and Female in stages and this reproductive process has been His since the first Man and Woman The Prophet Adam and his help mate Eve

. The entire human race has reproduced the same way for Thousand of years . This is the will of The Almighty Creator .

The Deceiver Paul Acclaimed Vision Is The Only Evidence The Deceiver Paul Could Produce For His Bid For The Leadership Of The New Church The Deceiver Would Raise . No Wonder The Jews Were Highly Skeptical About The Whole Claim And Would Not Listen To Him . Let's Take A Look In The Bible Where The Deceiver Paul CONTRADICTS HIMSELF THREE TIMES ,

This Is The Behavior Of A LIAR , A LIAR Has To Repeat His LIE Two Or More Times With Each Verse Differing From The Next Until He Ultimately Prove Himself A LIAR . He Eventually Reveals The Truth He Was Trying To Hide All Along .

Contradiction One ; Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And I Quote ; 4 And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; 6 but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

In The Above Quote The Deceiver Paul , First Says The HE Alone Fell To The Ground ( Earth ) And Then He Proceeds To Say That The Men Who Journeyed With Him Stood Speechless , Hearing A Voice , BUT Seeing No Man , We See In Acts 22 ; 7 - 9 That Paul The Deceiver Was About To Be Killed By The People Of The City Of Caesarea For Preaching To The Jews Amongst The GENTILES That They Should Forsake Moses And Not Circumcise Their Children Or Follow Their Customs .

The Deceiver Paul Was Saved By The Soldiers And Centurions Who Took Him To The Castle Unto The Chief Priest And There The Deceiver Paul Says

Contradiction Two ; Acts 22; 7 - 9 , And I Quote ; 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Now , In This Quote The Deceiver Paul Say HE Alone Fell To The Ground . He Proceeds To Say That The MEN Who Were With Him SAW The Light , But HEARD Not The Voice Of Him Who Spoke . But He Had Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , '' Those Who Journeyed With Him , Heard A Voice , But Saw Not A Man ! ''

We Now Go To Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 To Find The Third Contradiction . At This Point , The Deceiver Paul Is Defending Himself Before King Agrippa ;

Contradiction Three ; Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 , And I Quote ; 13 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining round me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It hurts you to kick against the sticks .

The Deceiver Paul Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And 22 ; 7 - 9 That ONLY He Fell To The Ground !!!! After We Listen To The Deceiver Paul Contradictions , It Makes It Very Difficult To Believe That The Deceiver Paul Ever Had A Vision . The Deceiver Paul Is A LIAR And His Own Word Confirm It !!!!! Romans 3 ; 7 , And I Quote ; 7 But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

Having The Behavior Of A Liar , As Usual , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Continued To Prove Himself A Liarr . In None Of The Other Quotes Had He Said That Jesus Spoke To Him In The Hebrew Tongue ! However , In The Following Quote , ( Acts 26 ; 16 ) , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Says That Jesus Appeared To Him To Make Him A Minister . Is This Why Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Though He Was Supposed To Be A Disciple ? Acts 26 ; 14 - 16 .

It is my understanding that the virgin birth is a Scriptural truth to be accepted by faith. There isn't any proof. The point is that Jesus is both man and God. The concept is that God "fused" His own being with full humanity in the womb of Mary. Thus Jesus is a man, who is also God by virtue of union with the Father.

Paul expressed that the Law was just and holy. It is an expression of God's own holiness. Yet the Law was never intended to be obeyed to bring the necessary righteousness for salvation. Only ABSOLUTE perfection can earn Heaven. That means that if one commits a single sin... that person is disqualified from going to Heaven forever. That is how serious sin is. Jesus, who is believed to be both man and God, is believed to be absolutely perfect. Through the cross, Jesus Christ willingly died in the believer's place, taking the wrath of God upon Himself, fulfilling God's judgment against sin. Just as Jesus took our sinfulness upon Himself (every last sin that has been committed and will be committed), Jesus imputes His own absolute righteousness upon the believer. The believer is then seen by God clothed in Christ's righteousness, absolute perfection, being hidden from judgment.

So Paul didn't necessarily abolish the Law. Paul simply expressed the Law's ultimate purpose in revealing God's holiness, the requirement for Heaven, and how it relates to Christ's righteousness as imputed to the believer.

At least... that's my understanding of it. lol

Thankyou For Your Answer ( chall )

If Saul , Shaool , Paul was going to teach the Gentiles then he should have been converting them to the teaching and the laws of the person whom he claimed to be receiving all of these visions from . For Example ;

The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; Do not eat pork in Leviticus 11 ; 7 , And the swine , though he divide the hoof . and be cloven footed , yet he cheweth not the cud ; he is unclean to you , '' Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; You can eat anything in Roman 14 ; 2 , '' For one believeth that he may eat all things ; another , who is weak , eateth herbs ,

Saul , Shaool , Paul even went against the Baptism 1Corinthians 1; 14 , 17 , And I Quote ; I thank God ( Theos , Elohyeem ) that I baptized none of you , but Crispus and Gaius ( 17 ) For Christ sent me not to baptize , but to preach the gospel ; not wisdom of words , lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect , '' which Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus , himself was given by Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Baptist ) . Make not that Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Zebedee ) still spoke of Baptism after Saul , Shaool , Paul's statement because his books came later , Yet , still in John 1 ; 26 , it says '' John answered them , saying , I Baptize with water ; but there standeth one among you , whom ye know not .

Mark 1; 9 , And I Quote ' And it came to pass in those days , that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was Baptized of John in Jordan .

John 1 ; 33 , And I Quote ; And I knew him not ; but he that sent me To Baptize with water , the same said unto me , Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining on him , the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost .

John 4 ; 1 , And I Quote When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and Baptized more Disciples that John .

And Saul , Shaool , Paul is going against Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus and makes a false statement by saying , '' For Christ Sent Me Not To Baptize .... '' Christ DID NOT SENT PAUL ... CHRIST NEVER KNEW PAUL ,.. This Is A Historical And Undisputable Fact . And when And Saul , Shaool , Paul , claimed in Acts 28 ; 28 that '' The salvation of God ( Theos , Elohyeem ) is sent unto the Gentiles and they will hear it '' . This is not True , Saul , Shaool , Paul is the Apostle of the Gentiles Only ,

More In Next Verse .

Great questions! Those are also questions many Christians have. It's the Christian understanding that God operates according to "covenants". The Mosaic Covenant (Covenant of Moses) is often referred to theologically among Christians as "the Law". The Law wasn't ever intended to make man righteous. In fact, most of the Laws were ceremonial and civil, laws for a priesthood and a nation. Yet the Pharisees had made the Law into an intricate code of ethics and laws by which a man was supposedly to be made righteous. Jesus was born under the Law. The covenant of the Law was still in effect. Thus all that Christ said and did was "under the law". For example, Jesus upholds Deuteronomy 24:1-4 in Matthew 19. Jesus also told the healed lepper to show himself to the priest, something demanded of the Law of Moses. But when Jesus died... Jesus fulfilled the Law. The Law is... the soul that sins must die. It's a judgment. Jesus died to fulfill the Law. Believed to be holy and sinless, Christ's blood was more than adequate to satisfy the Law's demands. Thus the dispensation of the Law ended at the cross. In Christ the Law was nailed to the cross... along with every sin of mankind. Jesus took our sins... so that He might impart His righteousness to us. We DON'T deserve it. Never could and never will. It's a gift from a loving God who is so Holy His justice must be appeased. So Christ became our propitiation. Now... with the Law fulfilled Paul meets Jesus on the Road to Damascus. It is revealed to Paul that God is now operating under a New Covenant (New Testament), a Covenant of Grace. And so yes... Paul breaks from the demands of the Law and begins laying down the principles of grace by which Christians are to live and embrace.

So I agree. Jesus and Paul do differ somewhat in teaching. But the key to understanding this is covenantal dispensation. Just as it is believed by Muslims that Mohammed (PBUH) offered the Quran, which is believed to be superior to previous revelations, so to through Paul, Christ provides a Covenant that Supercedes the Law of Moses. So now Sabbath laws (which were a shadow of the dispensation of grace), dietary rules (which only served to separate the people from that which was largely pagan), circumcision, etc. are no longer applicable. All that they truly represented was found and fulfilled in Christ Jesus. Now, the Christian observes ordinances that point to Christ (baptism and the Lord's Supper for example).

So yes, Jesus and Paul differ. But there is believed to be a reason for this. Now God is focused on the heart of man. Not man's "performance". Why? Because if the heart changes, performance is sure to follow. However, a man can have an evil heart and act out religious ceremonies and ceremonial observances without a problem. Many of the most vile and sinful men have been "religious". Thus this demonstrates that religious rituals and observances of laws do nothing to redeem mankind.

Man needs a supernatural change of heart, provided by the grace of Jesus Christ.

Thankyou For Your Answer (chall. If , Paul was going to teach the Gentiles then he should have been converting them to the teaching and the laws of the person whom he claimed to be receiving all of these visions from. For Example;Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2;27) circumcise male children on the 8th day Luke 2;21)...

Issa, I think its time you actually added something to the discussion, so far all you have done is copy what can be found in other placers. In this particular post it comes from http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/general-religious-discussions/38519-pauls-christianity-vs-jesus-christianity-m-z-york.html and it says there that it is the work of someone called M. Z. York whose posting you can find all over the place and his work is known as Nuwaubianism.

If you want more if this rubbish go and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuwaubianism

You Know What Funny About You , Your Full Of Excuse . Trying To Label Me Doesn't Get It . I Know Some Of Those Brother's , Like I Know Some Muslims / Christians And We Have Study Together . People Like Yourself Always Look For Away To Attack Other Teaching . Resarch . When It Dosen't Agree With What You Believe/ Accept , This Is And Old Trick To Sabotage The Post . When You , Yourself Go To Your Favor Website And Copy & Paste Thing And Clam It As Your Like SOME People Here Do . Unlike You I Don't Post Anything I Don't Research / Study On My Own . Like I Have Said I'm Not Here To Convert Anyone Here Only For Conformation On What I Have Learn / Research / Study Nomore Noless . So Your Not Doing Any Slick Here . Personally I Find You To Be Funny / A Joke . As Salaaamu Alaykum

I Have A Question For You Ok . With The Many Diffrent Sects Of Muslims & And The Many Denomination Of Christians And Their Diffrent Schools Of Though / Teaching . Why Don't You Post The Real / True Teaching Of ONE These To Religion For Us According To Their Holy Books Chapter / Verse . To Show Us What You Know . Whatever You Do Don't Come Half Steping Or Any Of Your Excuses This Time Or s*****p Ok .

It is my understanding that the virgin birth is a Scriptural truth to be accepted by faith. There isn't any proof. The point is that Jesus is both man and God. The concept is that God "fused" His own being with full humanity in the womb of Mary. Thus Jesus is a man, who is also God by virtue of union with the Father.

Paul expressed that the Law was just and holy. It is an expression of God's own holiness. Yet the Law was never intended to be obeyed to bring the necessary righteousness for salvation. Only ABSOLUTE perfection can earn Heaven. That means that if one commits a single sin... that person is disqualified from going to Heaven forever. That is how serious sin is. Jesus, who is believed to be both man and God, is believed to be absolutely perfect. Through the cross, Jesus Christ willingly died in the believer's place, taking the wrath of God upon Himself, fulfilling God's judgment against sin. Just as Jesus took our sinfulness upon Himself (every last sin that has been committed and will be committed), Jesus imputes His own absolute righteousness upon the believer. The believer is then seen by God clothed in Christ's righteousness, absolute perfection, being hidden from judgment.

So Paul didn't necessarily abolish the Law. Paul simply expressed the Law's ultimate purpose in revealing God's holiness, the requirement for Heaven, and how it relates to Christ's righteousness as imputed to the believer.

At least... that's my understanding of it. lol

Thankyou For Your Answer ( chall )

If Saul , Shaool , Paul was going to teach the Gentiles then he should have been converting them to the teaching and the laws of the person whom he claimed to be receiving all of these visions from . For Example ;

The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; Do not eat pork in Leviticus 11 ; 7 , And the swine , though he divide the hoof . and be cloven footed , yet he cheweth not the cud ; he is unclean to you , '' Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; You can eat anything in Roman 14 ; 2 , '' For one believeth that he may eat all things ; another , who is weak , eateth herbs ,

Saul , Shaool , Paul even went against the Baptism 1Corinthians 1; 14 , 17 , And I Quote ; I thank God ( Theos , Elohyeem ) that I baptized none of you , but Crispus and Gaius ( 17 ) For Christ sent me not to baptize , but to preach the gospel ; not wisdom of words , lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect , '' which Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus , himself was given by Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Baptist ) . Make not that Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Zebedee ) still spoke of Baptism after Saul , Shaool , Paul's statement because his books came later , Yet , still in John 1 ; 26 , it says '' John answered them , saying , I Baptize with water ; but there standeth one among you , whom ye know not .

Mark 1; 9 , And I Quote ' And it came to pass in those days , that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was Baptized of John in Jordan .

John 1 ; 33 , And I Quote ; And I knew him not ; but he that sent me To Baptize with water , the same said unto me , Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining on him , the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost .

John 4 ; 1 , And I Quote When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and Baptized more Disciples that John .

And Saul , Shaool , Paul is going against Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus and makes a false statement by saying , '' For Christ Sent Me Not To Baptize .... '' Christ DID NOT SENT PAUL ... CHRIST NEVER KNEW PAUL ,.. This Is A Historical And Undisputable Fact . And when And Saul , Shaool , Paul , claimed in Acts 28 ; 28 that '' The salvation of God ( Theos , Elohyeem ) is sent unto the Gentiles and they will hear it '' . This is not True , Saul , Shaool , Paul is the Apostle of the Gentiles Only ,

More In Next Verse .

Great questions! Those are also questions many Christians have. It's the Christian understanding that God operates according to "covenants". The Mosaic Covenant (Covenant of Moses) is often referred to theologically among Christians as "the Law". The Law wasn't ever intended to make man righteous. In fact, most of the Laws were ceremonial and civil, laws for a priesthood and a nation. Yet the Pharisees had made the Law into an intricate code of ethics and laws by which a man was supposedly to be made righteous. Jesus was born under the Law. The covenant of the Law was still in effect. Thus all that Christ said and did was "under the law". For example, Jesus upholds Deuteronomy 24:1-4 in Matthew 19. Jesus also told the healed lepper to show himself to the priest, something demanded of the Law of Moses. But when Jesus died... Jesus fulfilled the Law. The Law is... the soul that sins must die. It's a judgment. Jesus died to fulfill the Law. Believed to be holy and sinless, Christ's blood was more than adequate to satisfy the Law's demands. Thus the dispensation of the Law ended at the cross. In Christ the Law was nailed to the cross... along with every sin of mankind. Jesus took our sins... so that He might impart His righteousness to us. We DON'T deserve it. Never could and never will. It's a gift from a loving God who is so Holy His justice must be appeased. So Christ became our propitiation. Now... with the Law fulfilled Paul meets Jesus on the Road to Damascus. It is revealed to Paul that God is now operating under a New Covenant (New Testament), a Covenant of Grace. And so yes... Paul breaks from the demands of the Law and begins laying down the principles of grace by which Christians are to live and embrace.

So I agree. Jesus and Paul do differ somewhat in teaching. But the key to understanding this is covenantal dispensation. Just as it is believed by Muslims that Mohammed (PBUH) offered the Quran, which is believed to be superior to previous revelations, so to through Paul, Christ provides a Covenant that Supercedes the Law of Moses. So now Sabbath laws (which were a shadow of the dispensation of grace), dietary rules (which only served to separate the people from that which was largely pagan), circumcision, etc. are no longer applicable. All that they truly represented was found and fulfilled in Christ Jesus. Now, the Christian observes ordinances that point to Christ (baptism and the Lord's Supper for example).

So yes, Jesus and Paul differ. But there is believed to be a reason for this. Now God is focused on the heart of man. Not man's "performance". Why? Because if the heart changes, performance is sure to follow. However, a man can have an evil heart and act out religious ceremonies and ceremonial observances without a problem. Many of the most vile and sinful men have been "religious". Thus this demonstrates that religious rituals and observances of laws do nothing to redeem mankind.

Man needs a supernatural change of heart, provided by the grace of Jesus Christ.

At least... that's my understanding.

Question If I May , So What Your Saying Is The Laws Of Moses Which Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Christ Follow Is Out Dated ? And The Teaching Of Paul Is For This Day And Time Yes .

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