Regarding your post about leaving or not leaving China, I thought you might be interested in these recent stats on the surge in Chinese online viewing of international property before the last Golden Week, and the surge in mobile-based views during Golden Week.

The international property portal Juwai.com says the stats show that wealthy Chinese (and Chinese-based foreigners?) use Golden Week to hunt for property overseas.

So when you have no logic and no rational answer and when every point is against you people will resort to abusing others.
Sometimes they will start talking about some very shallow successes.
Mostly this childish arguments are used in Chinese forums.
Why ???
Discuss - don't digress!!!!

This is from the Long runner who thinks that only he and his white compatriots can speak the truth !!@
>
The Chinese carry their money hungry, test crazed, bad manners everywhere. It's how they act too when they move to the US. I'm sick of being surrounded by rude Chinese people.
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He is right about the one factor - The Chines are known to be irrational and extremely rude all over the world.

We do not know why you just barge into this forum and bash all the Chinese people

Is that fair ?? to accuse all the Chinese people of being rude ---I mean ..."ALL....

Come on --- and you quoted a certain "Long Runner" who could alsao be a racist

OK ...OK...

Since you quoted Long Runner---- I shall also quote Joe Doe --- who claim that the Aussies attack, beat up and sometimes even kill Indian students because they do not want the black-skin Indians to pollute their White Society genetic pool--- and "Blacken" their race --- so to speak

It is also true that even Indians inside INDIA hate and despise Black-Skin
PROOF== everyday, there are 10000s of INDIA newspaper adverts saying "Wanted girl for marriage--- must be fair-skinned. Blacks need not apply"

Resulting in the 100s of millions of already black-skinned Indian girls getting all types of psychotic illnesses

Things change. I've lived half of my adult life in China since 1993. Two-periods: mid-90's and 2005-11. I left last year for the same reasons stated in the article. All that and because the party is over. It was fun while it lasted but their economy has been showing cracks for several years now, and is on a turn for the worst. I fear for what lies ahead for my wife's family that will be stuck in a place of a billion angry people when the growth slows and work cannot be found. For twenty years I've watched China, it was a great run...like NOTHING we have ever seen on the planet.

You do not sound like fleeing because you have your funs. Nevertheless. you have made some smart deft moves. Some may not be so lucky like jumping from a China pot of slowing growth to the West frying pan of perpetual toxic mortgage CDOs financial or national/private debt crisis.

So you plan on going back to America where there are 300 million angry people who already cannot find work and not likely to find work any any near future? (Ridiculous fantasy promises by Mitt Romney not withstanding)

China may not grow at 10% a year anymore, but according to the vast majority of the world's leading economists (including World Bank, IMF, McKinsey, and Harvard Business Review to name a few) it'll still grow a lot quicker than America in the coming decades.

Hm, I won't say anything about you like those guys, but since you were there at 1993, you did not feel the massive layoffs, bankruptcies, etc which were rampant throughout the 90s? Air pollution was very bad at that time too, it is hard to believe that it is worse now than then, unless you live somewhere not near the coastal cities.

Interesting replies. Obviously, I'm sure you all assume that I know a few things about China, but I also know a little bit about economics and human behavior. The USA is BY FAR the most influential country on the planet. Japan didn't surpass the US in the '80s and China will not surpass the US in this millennium. The reason is actually quite simple and something that took me a long time to understand; why a place like China cannot be greater that the USA. It comes down to Trust. You can trust people in the US a lot more than in Asia, and that trust is the basis for everything that involves more than one person in a well functioning society. Aggregated on the whole and US has levels of productivity and innovation that is unmatched.

So what I'm returning to in the US besides the warm fuzzy feeling of trusting my neighbor? Cheap housing - I bought a single family home in a large metro area, surrounded by clean air with mountain views from my bedroom, superb free charter school education for my children. Compare that to Shanghai - I couldn't afford to buy a master bathroom suite (let alone a whole apartment), my kidneys were failing from bad water, air, and anything else I would eat; and I'm not paying $30,000 USD/ year for a marginal private school for my two kids.

Job wise, I left a position in with national responsibilities in the PRC making well over six-figures (that is more than the top 5% in the US, BTW). I came back with nothing to do, decided to switch careers, studied, networked, and in less than a year found a solid position in a Fortune 500. The US is down, but not nearly out. China has peaked, and it will start looking a lot more like the current stagnating Japan much sooner than people think. This is way different than the '90s Asian crisis. And as housing continues to rebound here in the US, the spending, growth, and jobs will follow.

'The reason is actually quite simple and something that took me a long time to understand; why a place like China cannot be greater that the USA.'
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I can not agree with you more Super Dave.

But I might also add - It is not the asians who are untrustworthy - it is only some major Asian governments ( and as much of government that rubs off on people)
And that comes down to one basic factor - Transparency... Without transparency and resultant accountability Governments and the country can not be trusted.
..
In the case of cheap housing - This in fact may well be part of the economic problems of the USA.
Governments in the Western world have relied too heavily on construction growth ( Housing and commercial) for keeping people in employment.This comes about to win votes.

They should have relied much more on entrepreneurial skills.

However - one very important factor in the US favour - Governments have much less of a hand in business and enterprise - which is a big help towards innovations.
This leads towards the term ' US exceptional ism'

China has been successful because total Central planning ( where they can control financing and even control who is or is not successful in enterprise)
whereas the USA has always relied on Private enterprise.
That is what will eventually make the difference.

Just FYI, Japan surpassed the USA in GDP per capita (nominal) in the 1980s.

You cannot really expect a population of 150 million (Japan) to overtake a population of 300 million (USA) in total power, can you?

Now it's doubtful that China will ever reach the USA's level of GDP per capita in any foreseeable future, due to numerous reasons, but it only needs to reach 23% of America's GDP per capita to match/surpass America in total GDP.

Now I get why you would like to move back to the US for improvements to quality of life, but comparing China today to Japan in the 80s is just silly.

Living in China for 5 years, I also believe that I will flee too. Main reasons for my decision. 1- you have to be dishonest to survive here, 2- air polution, 3- tainted food risks 4- low quality of life 5- dirt and rudeness everywhere.. I am continously looking for a job so wish me look.

"We" as in a ~70 year old Burmese "terror agent" who was sent to Canada by the Burmese Ethnic Superiority Movement in order to create instability in the West so that the West would be distracted from all those "ethnic purgings" the Bamar are committing against the ethnic minorities in Myanmar?

Not Guagua but Mingze Xi stupid. Handsome Xilai Bo is out. Mingze's dad, Jinping Xi, who is not so handsome, but has a cute wife (better looking than Kailai BoGu) is the next emperor of China.
Long Live the Princelings!

It is quite ghastly when certain 70 year old Burmese "terror agents", who would still be a virgin if not for the various 20 Kyat "servicewomen" he has paid throughout his life, to describe any female, wether it's Arab women, Thai prime ministers, or Xi Jingping's wife, as a certain old terror agent has done, as "cute."
Long live disgusting old Burmese terror agents, I guess...

As a person from a developed country who has lived in Sao Paulo for a couple of years, all I have to say is that I'm surprised...that the Economist thought this article was relevant or anything fresh and new.
We could have a similar article for every big city in a developing country: bad air, dangerous roads, violence, lack of personal freedom, lack of a fair and effective law system, disrespect for human rights, racism, sexism, etc, are all in the menu. You pick a country whose combination of maladies best fit you, if you are lucky to get to choose.
Frankly, there are comments here that offer much more than the article itself.

But it seems Sao Paolo is at the same level of 'livability' as Shanghai or Beijing. I am also a Chinese old hand (8yrs) and aside from all the physical difficulties you mention I think you miss the point that it is the attitude which is one of the hardest things to accept. People in the cities of China seem mostly angry, I believe in a quiet desperation kind of way. The greed is palpable and as the relatively small percentage of wealthy continue to flaunt their status symbols it only serves to break the community further. We could go on and on about this of course. I can't argue quality of life with my Chinese wife because she can only relate to the money/tangibles struggle. She only knows she needs as much as her friends, and that our daughter must take as many classes as possible so she can pass the tests getting her into the best schools. Why? so she can make lots of money and therefore be 'safe', and not lose face for us of course.

@East Wind, Yes, money is important. It's the all consuming pursuit of it I have a problem with.

My parents both came from very humble beginnings, my father from a farm in the US, my mother one of 10 children in Europe. She worked from a very young age to help her family. That's how things were. The unfortunate result was they spent the rest of their lives in a kind of fear they might lose it, and thinking only of the next step in acquiring home, furnishings, etc. This took precedence over all else.

Because of that generations hard work, my generation and those younger have it good. But whereas in the 'West' most average people find the single minded accumulation of assets unhealthy (and often embarrassing), and favor a balanced life, I don't see that nearly as much in China. Chinese don't know who they are anymore, China has tragically had much of its culture and memory stripped in recent times. What's left is a people who will do anything to copy what they see as the only valuable part of Western culture, it's wealth.

I won't say they are amoral, but the morals are certainly different. There is no feeling of us, only 'me'. You need only look at the wealthy, manipulative, corporate republicans in the US to see where this leads and it's not good. The problem in China is there seems to me no way to avoid it. The new rich in China have no compunction to screw anyone in their path and little notion of community or the golden rule to know anything different. Honor is dead, whereas saving face is all important, the two are very different.

Welfare state? the US? You are clearly misinformed because we pay dearly for this and get very little in return. If the culture of corruption were not so deep in China you might have welfare as well. If you want to do any kind of business there is always someone to pay off, and this goes all the way to the top.

The Chinese carry their money hungry, test crazed, bad manners everywhere. It's how they act too when they move to the US. I'm sick of being surrounded by rude Chinese people, loudly speaking chinese or chinglish everywhere they go. Wish they would just stay in the country they already ruined, but no...they had to come here and ruin my beautiful country too.

Perspective A: Grown up in Beijing, lived in the U.S. and now living in Germany for 10+ years, personally, I enjoy being a "lifelong foreigner". The "Westerner" will not accept the "Easterner" as natives, the other way around is the same. It is a personal choice, for good, to take it or leave it.

Perspective B: "China’s shift from a traditional family culture to a “me” culture, and its rush toward materialism and conspicuous consumption." Agreed. As a born Chinese, I love my home country, but not the way it was governed. China needs to re-define its value system as well as a sustainable moral ground after 30 years neck-breaking of commercialization. BTW, this "me" culture is an import western goods.

Perspective C: The world can only be thankful that China is stable, at least for now, so that the Germans, the Americans, the Japanese, etc. can still exploit the relative cheap labor, plus, export their vanity to the younger Chinese.

Unlike the Mao heyday, there are just too many foreigners now to make them feel special or for the Chinese to accord them special respect and privileges. In fact being a foreigner is such common currency that even many CCP leaders and rich acolytic capitalist roaders have become the parents of "foreigners." As such, there are many "foreigners" fleeing to other countries, often with ill-gotten gains.

You don't drink, because you are underage. But there is no age restriction for Heroin, so its OK. You are a weird person, you can't buy a bear, but can peddle hard drugs. Yes, the world is made for people like you.

"When visitors come to call, his neighbours helpfully point them to the door of the “old foreigner."
But isn't that true in all countries? USA is no exception. Even if one has citizenship, if you speak differently and especially if you are NOT of European heritage, you are always a "foreigner." This is especially true of Asians. My sons grew up in USA and English is their native language, but they were always regarded as the "Indian boys," with their friends forever asking them how things were done in "their country." BTW we are not Sikh and our clothing is no different than anyone else there. Our men do not wear turbans and my boys have no facial hair.
I myself was not born in USA and so I can in a way understand this, but even until the day we left that country I was forever the "Asian Indian woman," AND I lived in New Jersey, a state with perhaps the highest concentrations of Asians, especially South Asians in USA.
BTW, how are minorities treated in Europe? Are they fully accepted? Of course the answer is NO! You see, the West is no different.

The reason many asians are treated as "foreigners" is because most of them arrived in the last 2 decades. Per the recent Pew research on asian-americans, in 1980, there were 800,000 Chinese, 400,000 Indians in the US. In 2010, there are 3.5 million Chinese, 2.8m Indians.

Those numbers are even more striking if you just look at arrivals in the last decade. From 1980 to 1990, 800k Chinese and 400k Indians arrived in the US. From 1990 to 2000, another 800k Chinese but 800k Indians arrived in the US. From 2000 to 2010, 1.1m Chinese and 1.2m Indians arrived in the US. Since 1990, 1.9m Chinese and 2m Indians have arrived in the US!

Even though the Chinese started to arrive in the 1800s as railroad workers, my guess is, just like the Japanese(or perhaps even more so), those early arrivals have gradually "disappeared" due to inter-marriage. Most of the Chinese you see these days are the late arrivals, so you can't blame us for treating most asians as foreigners, because most of them are! Most(over 90%) of Chinese/Indians I've met speak heavily accented English.

I agree with guest-iomjeoj completely. Most Asians, if they were born in the US and thus can speak English naively and understand American culture, would not be treated as a "foreigner" by most Americans.

Sure there are lots of individual racists left in America, but no major institution, government or private, that I can think of is racist. In fact, major institutions all seem to be very keen on exterminating racism in the US, and most have established anti-racism or pro-diversity programs.

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"Even though the Chinese started to arrive in the 1800s as railroad workers, my guess is, just like the Japanese(or perhaps even more so), those early arrivals have gradually "disappeared" due to inter-marriage."

Ha I am actually one of these mixed-race Eurasians. But I haven't "disappeared".....

You have to speak "American" to be considered American? that is so stupid. To me as long as you are a citizen of the US, you should be considered American. I think you Americans (I assume you are American) should amend the Constitution so my fellow German, Arnie can become President (Austria is a technicality, I did not have the time to invade Austria). I know he does not speak English very well, but nether did George Bush.

"To me as long as you are a citizen of the US, you should be considered American."

I just wonder if China should have the double citizenship... you know as a foreigner if you want to be Chinese just apply to get the Chinese citizenship then you can shut up the village's mouth by shouting "I am Chinese", then all the debates of "you are or not Chinese" might stop, but then I don't just if this double citizenship is good or bad for China...

and I think "old foreigner" is just an easier way for the villagers to tell the visitors how to find the guy they are looking for, it's not meant to be insulting, you know the "foreigner" just looks very different to the villagers....

But what about the many American-born Asians who speak perfect English? Why are they constantly asked "where are you from?" and "is that how they do things in your country?" My boys speak perfect English, but often there was an invisible wall or should I say curtain between them and other Americans. Unfortunately, the world judges a book by its cover.

You cant imagine how great it feels to wake up in Beijing and find that it is one one of those rare days when the wind blew in the right direction to clear away the blanket of air pollution to leave beautiful blue skies. Rare indeed. On a good day you can see mountains from my house. On an average day you cant see the building accross the street. yes I do worry about my family/s health. Other worries include average apartment price of US$800,000 - and this is certainly a 70 year lease on a dirty poorly constructed apartment outside the fourth ring road. School fees for foreigners are standard at $30,000 per year per child.

Yeah good point, I am renting in Beijing now and buying in my own country as its about a third the price for much better build. China's housing is in a bubble now that may not pop for a while making many people suffer house prices that cost 60 years of their income. The problem is that with perceived corruption rich Chinese prefer to invest in apartments as its harder for people to steal those. Also local stock markets have tanked so property remains the favorite investment. Restrictions on multiple purchases I know are easy to get around by just buying it in a family members name. Until there are other safe investment options china's housing will remain completely unibtaibable to average Chinese. Many normal people have benefitted from hand outs from their parents who cashed in on their city centre housing value sky rocketing, sold up and moved to the far away suburbs. This slush fund won't exist for the generation growing up now. Also my local friend calculated if he borrows rmb2.9 million from the bank then he has to pay rmb4.9 back over 30 years. He didn't buy. If the property bubble pops then normal people will have disposable income for more consumption - which will be great for the economy, making it less reliant on exports!

The property bubble can't really burst because that would disrupt too much of the other parts of the economy, which would destabilize the CPC's authoritarian rule. The CPC today is trying desperately to "diffuse the bubble slowly." Even if their plan works out, expect the Chinese economy to be really unfair like it is today for at least another 10-20+ years.

BTW most rich Chinese people find a way to smuggle their money abroad, either through HK/Macau or an investment bank, to invest. But this can be difficult if one doesn't have family members with Western or Singaporean citizenship. I guess this is partly the reason why so many Chinese are trying to obtain Western/Singaporean citizenship today...

This is the way to boost economy by recycle any old/older building every 70 years. Capitalism with Chinese characteristic ! With pollution, bad constrcution, repairment and maintenance fee, You are lucky if you apartment will last the rest of 58 years!
Every Chinese property owner and their children (future owner) are property slaves of CPC !

PL123in reply to KACEY1Sep 2nd, 16:32
BTW Hong Kong people are slaves of Lee Ka Shing and co.
...
Maybe urine prices and poo-cockroach prices are too high??
And they don't need to run away - they are already semi-independent

I live in Beijing too, and you are exagerating. There are quite a lot of days with a blue sky, and it is extremely rare that you actually can't see the buildings across the street. Evenon days of bad visibility, you can see a few hundred meters away. Do you live on an extremely big street?

What everyone forgets about the Chinese economy is its sheer size. Is it really possible to give the population a standard of living that has been achieved in the West, with the infrastructure needs of such a massive country? Simplistically, if the Western economy falls, who are the Chinese going to sell to? Martians? The Pacific region has already shown how fragile it is, and India, a growing market, is being sent aid from the UK. As to being a foreigner, my own family lived in China for generations before the war, ran businesses, spoke Chinese and were born there. The war came, they either died or survived imprisonment and afterwards, being mostly blond, blue eyed and very tall, did not assimilate, returning to the UK., a country they were equally foreign to....

India getting aid from Britain ! We don't need it , didn't ask for it and please don't give it . Your looting of us for 150 + years wasn't sufficient ? Maybe we need to inavde Britain and implement Gandhi's observation that " western civilisation " was agood idea !

No one questions or even remembers what Britain and its western allies, plus, Japanese had done to China 100 years ago. Why Opium was the only exported goods from Britain to China? Britain and its allies have enjoyed being "privileged foreigners" and exploited China as much as they can between 1840 - 1945. The opium, the looting, the burning, and the killing were not all long ago. Worse, in those days, the Chinese had to pay the foreigners for helping them to get doped and colonized.

Today, all western countries are benefiting from China's economic power - Chinese buys Boeing, Airbus, Gucci, Armani, Toyota, BMW, Porsche... They are the third most oversea spending country in the world.

At the end, the poor Chinese do not get better off than before, thank for the western's "capitalism".

For the past 50 years, Britian has been invaded by Indians. Hordes of Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus and other Indians have settled down and made homes there, uninvited by the general indigenous population, and mostly disliked. They take every advantage of the welfare state and the indigenous population are not allowed to complain because of quite strict race relations laws and the much hated "human rights" laws. The different governments over the years promise to cut down the numbers coming, but nothing is done and there is a sea change in attitudes in Europe which may affect them in future.

The subject should not have left out the miserable "expatriates" from Hong Kong. During the period between 1979 and 1997, quite a large number of Hong Kongers marched north to join the big venture of Chinese trade. Starting from 2000, many have been replaced by their mainland peers after the "transfer" of skill. Many have spent 10 to 20 years in the mainland in the hope of a bright future. But the reality has poked burst their dream bubble. Due to the wage disparity, its quite easy for the employer to decide to hire a mainlander costing about HK3K instead of hiring a Hong Konger at about $8K. The displaced Hong Kongers could not find a comparable job upon their return home. They could not continue their working life nor livelihood in the mainland. They found the same hard for them to adapt a normal life back home. They had to start it all over again from the very junior rank because of their old age and disorientation. This is quite a sad story you can easily find. They are the unknown heros who have contributed to the success of the early day China. Can I call that a wrong bet? They were the displaced expatriates. Get forget easily.

Another friend of mine has told me lately that he will soon join the repatriation. He is now working in company with the factory based in mainland (office in Hong Kong). The business line covers plastic products such as the plastic bags, plastic boxes, plastic toys, etc. He said that the orders for plastic toys have dropped drastically and will continue to drop. He said that the downfall of such is due to the falling interest of the kids for the plastic toys. The reason for this happening is that the kids' interest have shifted to the computer games and related products. That is quite easy to comprehend, isnt it? What can he do but wait for his turn? The China's boom does not actually please every Chinaman. This is true.

Doesn't the same thing happen in New York City or or anywhere exciting but challenging for that matter? People's lives change and their circumstances change and what might have been a dream life in your twenties all of a sudden becomes not so glamorous as you approach your fifties.

In my humble and not so perfect opinion, part of what the 'old China hands' (as coined by the author) have to deal with on top of facing normal midlife changes, is what I would coin as losing their 'movie star status.' Any expat who moved to China in the 80's, stayed, and especially if they had even an ounce Chinese language aptitude, they lived an exceedingly privileged life. It might be a bit of an exaggeration to say 'movie star,' but if you were young and in China back then your mere presence anywhere stirred up a lot of excitement. And in the countryside, well then you might as well have been Tom Cruise. It is pretty intoxicating stuff, especially if you were not the star High School quarterback or you didn't get many dates back home.

China has changed a lot. Foreigners are no longer treated with star status and good luck trying to get the attention of the wait staff at a good restaurant. Foreigners are still treated very well, but they no longer enjoy special status and much like party officials who worry about quickly falling out of favor, the same thing can happen to foreigners.

"to flee or not to flee"? perhaps it's the typo, should it "to flea or not to flea", those annoying little bugs you know, lol, just kidding, to be honest, I think the language is the biggest problem for foreigners in China, very few people here speak English, as for the air pollution, well, there's a solution, ie our comrades in Beijing should move the capital to tibet where there's no very much air, less air means less air pollution isn't, so everybody won't complain about the bad air, lol, just kidding, anyone don't understand my joke will be.... luck the sense of humor, ok? anyway, China is just a poor and developing country, just like our leaders such as grandpa Wen and Hu can't stop telling us, so please foreigners be patient and don't flee, please stay to see its improvement or its collapse, hmmmmm

I think Westerners are a good thing for China, particularly in places where people have a habit of eating cats. In order to make Westerners more comfortable, Chinese local governments will ban the sale of cats for consumption. As a cat you should be happy.

I think Westerners are a good thing for China, particularly in places where people can shoot bloody-Zombie as fun. In order to make Westerners more comfortable, Chinese local governments will encourage more games of shooting Zombie, online and offline. As a Zombie you should be happy.

Thanks. I have read the article given under the link. In particular, I find the following interesting: -

"Without the come-and-go expats, Hong Kong would survive just fine. For as much as expats add flashes of colour to the city, this place doesn’t need them. The immigrants, on the other hand, have a stake in the city, and the city has a stake in them. If one thrives, so does the other."

Again I am not Hindoo. Very good, Westerners should be invited back rule the primitive Indians. Hooray. Maybe America should be invited back into India to act as a colonizer. Yes right on the door step of China.

honestly, this is the most bizar comment ever. Cant you just accept the cultual difference? you know what Chinese think, they think eating turkey is a sin, cos turkey is just such a lovely human companion. (OK, i just made this up), But how about muslim, wanna a serve of steak, sir?

how do you know, perhaps some westerners are looking for silly and exciting food in China, they might looking for cat meat after reading you post, have told you not telling this joke otherwise everybody would think Chinese eats anything that moves, but you seem to have forgotten the warning.

perhaps Indians should start eating cats and dogs, that's how they can have less malnutrition according to their next premier mr modi, rumors are he said India's malnutrition was because of Indians eating only vegetables, it's ok for me as long as they eat cats in their country not in China, lol

perhaps Indians should start eating cats and dogs, that's how they can have less malnutrition according to their next premier mr modi, rumors are he said India's malnutrition was because of Indians eating only vegetables, it's ok for me as long as they eat cats in their country not in China, lol
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They can't eat dog and Cat. In fact just the opposite, they were often attacked by rabies dogs. In Mumbai millions dogs were running around. You can see Live-In-Hole as a good example. He is even running around in the forum like a mad dog. His father is a dog, he said. .

PL123in reply to Bismarck888Aug 31st, 07:48
I think Westerners are a good thing for China, particularly in places where people can shoot bloody-Zombie as fun.
;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
......

But from what I can see of your Westerns on this forum -
They think it was fun - but now that China has reached it's peak, they wont to go home.
..
And obviously they are fed up of Childish rudeness.
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It is more fun to shoot the Live-in-Hole's A§§hole and Zombie at the same time.

Many Rich Chinese really find it much much cheaper to shop and live in the West like New York, Paris, London etc. Anyway those buggers have hundreds of millions or billions to burn. But the same buggers also find it that China is a gold mine to make money.

This is truly evidence this your job. Who pays you for such rhetoric? You of all people should well know, that between all of us in the family we must put together the money for the best school we can afford - because we are not rich enough to flee as you implore. Nor really willing to, but are pragmatic. This is China today and for the foreseeable future for our son -- the last of us until he marries.

Whether China is an ideal place to live, no matters for Chinese or forigners, is self-evident, the answer of which can be simply got above.
In additional, the growing rate of study aboard in recent decades also unveil the inequity and inferiority of Chinese education system, which at the same time can be regarded as the failure of patriotism and epidemic of money-oriented, too. Because majorities of oversea students take the green card as final goal except of their inabilities. Providing that everyone can share the resource of education equally by competing fairly but not local priority, the number of overseas students will plummet immediately.
Not only the education, but are there many other livelihood issues deteriorating the stabilities due to the regime. And with contemporary trend on, I think more people will choose to leave unless the elite can rivse the distribution system. After all, it is human nature to aviod risks.

Your argument points are weak to justify anything except the well off Chinese tendency to study abroad. It is quite common for the first rate students to be admitted into the home universities. In most cases, its the second rate and the rich who will opt for overseas study. China is a developing country. They have yet to spend up to 4% of the expenditure revenue on education. Education is very important to the long term development of a country. But it should not be regarded as the sole yardstick to tell the national prowess. Universities in the west are good. But they have a number of problems which are hard to be resolved. The educational staff are all overpaid and reluctant to accept adjustment. The finance situation of some universities is in trouble because of the poor performance of the investment portfolio. Moreover, the donation seems to be diminishing. Sustainability is in doubt. Thats why the rich students are the most sought after by the needy. China exports so many of such students to the benefit of the west. But China maintains a pool of top rate students and reaps 500k engineering grads every year. Just look at the stunning figure which eclipses the overseas figure in a large margin, there is no reason to worry about the drain. Education is just one of the many fronts China is improving. China is a big cauldron producing a lot of cream, layer after layer. Nowadays, the grads have the freedom to choose their job. Here or overseas. Its the HR development of the country. Great! By the way, some of the foreign universities have plan to start the local branch campuses in China. How do you like it? Sweet or sour or both?

A naive or government sponsored response. As many other (honest) Chinese would admit -- we paid 100,000 yuan as a "gift" to get our son into good kindergarten. A typical, necessary practice we Chinese know so well. And it will continue throughout his education. How well paid the school staff are !

Yes, I was so naive as not to note that you are the very rich guy capable of paying RMB 100k per year to secure a place for your son in the kintergarden in China. But, that may be the norm of payment (some in premium on top of the fee) charged by the private run international school for sure. And you can afford. Then why whine here and why don't you just flee (ultimate solution) as well?

To be clear -- its not a private, international school. A school in central Beijing run by the government. You obviously don't have children or are simply paid to post this rhetoric. Any responsible parent pays and sacrifices to pay whatever is necessary to give his child the best education possible. We are fortunate that between us and his grandparents we can manage it. That is the reality we and many of our friends deal with. Everyone with a child and any means to educate them knows this.

In India the situation are the same. Parents pay to get their children into a relative good school. You are the lucky one who can afford, when people can't pay, can their children go to school? It is just a question.

Maybe it's China: Part II. The free-for-all is over; the first-generation businesses have to transfer over to the second-generation, who has to make them succeed in a different environment than their parents. Different skills are needed; the same thing that made foreigners instant successes 15 years ago don't raise eyebrows anymore. Opening a sports bar in Shanghai probably won't do it now, though. But there is still plenty of room for foreigners to contribute. It's what makes this place exciting.
As for complaining about always being outsiders - get over it. You'll never be Chinese, no matter how well you speak the language, or how long you stay here. Why would you even want to try? China doesn't want more Chinese. That's what family planning is all about. If you find some pride in your culture and yourself, you'll realize that the fact that you are an outsider with a different perspective is what China values most.

"If you find some pride in your culture and yourself, you'll realize that the fact that you are an outsider with a different perspective is what China values most."

I agree with this point. China will continue to value the presence of foreigners. This proves that China still has the appeal to attract their stay and contribution to the country. Globalisation and Westernisation are the two unforgetable words for many locals including those at the top. China invests a lot to develop the soft power (including the media). This needs the participation of the westerners. They can be the helper, mentor, or even the proxy required. They provide the instant information and field duty to aid the project. Lately, China has initiated a daring plan to assign a region to allow English speaking residents only. So, the foreigners in China should know that they still have the value needed. If that (the daring plan) is the case, that will be the breakthrough to accept multi-nationals' prevalence in the country. The sun rises and shines in the east.