Hi, I'm new here. I have a question that I cannot seem to get answered online and have no guts to ask a live person. It's a very uncomfortable. Searching online for answers keeps resulting in porno links that are tempting me even more.

I'm a 34 year old female who was sexually abused by my father between ages of 3 to 11 (most i can recall). I blacked out most memories until the past few years. Now I'm married to a much younger husband and have a great sex life in general.

Here's the uncomfortable situation. In the past month my husband and I have been exploring our fanasties along with trying new sex ideas. His skills at lovemaking is improving dramatically and as a result I'm relaxing more and having increasingly higher orgasms (for lack of better terms).

Here's the drawback... I'm getting more and more frequent and clearer flashbacks to my father fondling and licking me and they're no longer exactally turning me off.

Now instead of being disguisted, I'm finding myself more worked up.
As a child I was gently abused and yeah, often had orgasms (much to my eternal shame). Heck, at the time I had no clue it was even wrong.
Right now I'm feeling a sick mix of replusviness and extreme arousal. As my husband's fingers and tonuge playing improves, it becomes more like what my father did. Does that make me sick? Or was my father that gentle and such an expert?

My husband's explorations are quickly becoming a trigger. Simply seeing the words "daddy" and any crude sexual term next to it is a trigger.

Part of me wishes to confess all to my husband and hopes he would be happy to role play it so I can get this deep seated "itch" outta me.

The other part of me feels shameful and ugly and of course I fear rejection from my husband. Is it natural to get so turned on at the idea of possibly role playing a daddy daughter thing with one's own husband?

Keep in mind, I have no desire to leave the confines of marriage however I am feeling the pull of internet porno related to this topic. All my husband knows is who abused me and how. And that I do get flashbacks and nightmares sometimes.

Sorry this is long. I have never talked to anyone about this. I'm scared of rejection even here online but I am also desperate to understand what's wrong with me and how to deal with this.

Advice from other females with similar situations would be wonderful. Thank you.

August 1, 20063:17 pm

Randomwomen2

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Sweetheart absolutly nothing is wrong with you. As far as I know that is completly normal though very few admit it. YOu had no control over your body as a child sweetheart. I was to sexualy abused by my father mine was from the age opf 3 until I was 13. You are not alone in this sweetheart. I am facing the same issues. (((Isavegas))))

August 1, 20064:33 pm

Loralei

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I was never sexually abused or molested or anything like that as a child yet I also have those same types of fantasies. Mine only involve makebelieve people, not actual family members or anyone I even know. But the taboo aspect of incest is probably the arousal factor for me. So you are not alone in those types of fantasies. Perhaps as long as you explain to your husband that your fantasy daddy isn't the same person as your real daddy, he may roleplay along with you. That it is something you need to get out of your system and acting it out might be helpful. I think the main thing you have to stress to your husband is that you are not in any way attracted to your real daddy (whether it's true or not) because something like that might really bother him.

You said that as a child that you had no idea that what you were doing was even wrong. That's because society and religion have created those rules and have attached a major guilt trip along with it. Those rules were established to look out for the well being of children. But you have to remember that we possess very basic animal-like sexual desires that exist in the animal kingdom. Your dad may have rationalized that since he wasn't causing you physical pain but giving you physical pleasure, that he wasn't in fact harming you. It may not have entered his mind that he was harming you emotionally. I wonder if it would have bothered you as much if you had never learned that society condemned such activity. Perhaps it's akin to girls being brought up in a very strict religious home having problems feeling that sex is dirty and they feel guilty when they indulge in it.

I may be wrong, but it sounded like your "guilt" came at a later age when you became aware of the social norm. There is nothing "wrong" with you. You are merely experiencing arousal from something that happened to you at a young age. That's when the seed of many fetishes are planted. We are each a product of our experiences. Age/incest roleplaying is far more common than you imagine. Just like there is rape roleplaying. It's just a fantasy and entirely harmless. It doesn't mean that anyone wants to experience an actual rape.

Several years ago I became acquainted with a man online who had an incestuous relationship with his mother throughout his youth. They did everything except penetration. It didn't "ruin" him in any way. But he still had the fantasy in his head and the regret that they didn't complete the act. He hoped someday to be able to act out this fantasy using roleplay just to fulfill this need. Your case reminded me of his.

I hope no one will misread what I have written. I DO NOT condone any kind of child abuse, sexual or otherwise. But if it is something that has happened to you in the past, you need to look at it in a forgiving nature. In many cases, no harm was meant. It was more a case of ignorance than maliciousness. I sometimes think the victim suffers more from the guilt and condemnation of society than from what actually happened. (This certainly does not include force and the infliction of pain) My only concern is for the healing of the victim and I think forgiveness and acceptance may be helpful. That also includes accepting the innocent child that you were who was caught up in adult acts.

August 1, 20064:42 pm

ggfred4

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isa,I am glad you found a place to open up and be honest. I have been here six weeks and just starting to let my guard down. I too was sexually abused by my father. First, you should not feel guilty, we all react differently. I think I choose not to remember everything, because what I know affects me too much. I hate giving advice because I don't won't to be wrong but it seems that if you could talk to your husband that would help a lot. Here I am giving you that advice and I have not ever told mine. Whatever, don't give up on help.

August 1, 20066:03 pm

lovinglife

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Wow- this is the first time I will post something that I’m feeling unsure about but I feel the strong need to say something here…it sure will get me away from the computer for the night….

Loralei~ I found your post to be a little insightful, however I just have to make a comment about your statement … “I wonder if it would have bothered you as much if you had never learned that society condemned such activity.”

I work with youth that have been molested as young children and have witnessed first hand the cuts they now make up & down their arms- cuts in between their legs, razor blades swallowed and can’t believe for a moment that what happened to them and how their pain is coming out it is because society condemns incest and sees it as a taboo??? Incest is one taboo that is universal regardless of religion or society norms.

I can not imagine having been violated as a child in a sexual manner. What a complete loss of innocence by someone who was perverted and sick-there is No justification-NO reasoning that would ever make sense in my mind.

Isavegas~ I hope that your find some answers and some help- you too GG : ). I believe that what you’re experiencing would be a normal reaction to what happened to you. Keep searching- keep asking-you’ll find your answers. LL

August 1, 20066:46 pm

lovinglife

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Ok a close friend of mine has calmed me down. She too has experienced incest as well as what isavegas is talking about regarding the feelings of pleasure.

My friend agrees with MUCH of what Loralei had to say other than the role playing- (only because it’s personally not for her-says she probably would lose her mind- however says everybody deals with it so differently- there is no right or wrong way with dealing it.)

I just need to stick to my playing and having fun on other threads and to the things I know. sorry. LL.

August 1, 20067:45 pm

ggfred4

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No Loving, we need your honesty. You made me feel kind of normal for feeling they way I feel and react to things. Please don't refrain. There are people like me who need you.

August 1, 20069:39 pm

Loralei

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lovinglife,

I'm not sure if you misread what I was trying to say or if I failed to make myself clear. There are many kinds of sexual abuse from the brutal rapes to more tender "loving" types. The kind that isavegas described above, sounded like the more loving kind. She said she was gently abused and there was pleasure involved. Maybe not in her case, but sometimes these activities are more consensual than coerced (as in my online friend's case). I would think that the outcome from gentle abuse would vary tremendously from the outcome of being brutally raped.

The point I was trying to make when I said “I wonder if it would have bothered you as much if you had never learned that society condemned such activity” was that the realization that the activity was so forbidden by society was a large part of the shame she probably felt. When she was young and innocent she had no clue that it was wrong. A child is far more apt to be upset when they learn that what they had been involved in was so shocking to others.

This isn't a very good analogy, but if a couple of teenagers who had never received any information about sex had followed their natural instincts and had sex, at the time they probably thought it was great. But when adults heard about their escapades, they were punished and told they had been sinning, etc. All of a sudden they had to deal with society's shame.

Again, I'm not trying to let daddy off the hook for what he did. It was wrong as it could be. But I feel that the child was victimized a second time when she had to endure the accompanying shame after learning it was "wrong". Sorry if this still isn't clear, but it's hard for me to explain.

August 2, 20061:06 am

lovinglife

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Loralei~

I appreciate your response. This is not a topic I am ‘personally’ familiar with therefore I should have kept my butt off the thread and really continue to keep it off. But when I was reading through your 1st post-and even a bit in your 2nd post (" more consensual than coerced") how some of it read to me didn’t sit too well- can’t even explain why as I’m not sure at this moment. Part of it I realize is coming from the youth I’ve seen in GREAT pain –HOWEVER , I am not an incest survivor nor an expert on it.

Like I said I ended up calling a close friend who is a survivor and asked her opinion. She has experienced what isavegas is going through AND she also agree’d with a lot of what you had to say esp about societies response making the pain, shame, and guilt even greater. I truly wished that this friend of mine could write up a post to isavegas- I have nothing to offer because I don’t know.

The one thing that I do want to say is that this friend of mine self-medicates and has had A LOT of issues resulting from her past. I only see the pain, I only hear the pain in others voices-and maybe perhaps because I’m removed from actually FEELING that pain-that I hold VERY biased opinions on how I view the perpetrators, how I view incest…and your post just read (to me) completely opposite of what I feel inside. But that doesn’t mean to an incest survivor that some of it made sense.

Incest is a very touchy-emotional subject and I can see why isavegas could not find the answers she’s was seeking from an internet search. And that’s unfortunate. I hope that she continues on til she gets her answers. I applaud her for what she is doing because it takes a lot of courage not to hide what she feels but to want to understand it.

LL

August 2, 20061:43 am

cpt1212

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I am not sure that I will be able to adequately express what I mean regarding this topic because it is very near to me and also because i have had very little sleep in the past couple of days and my thinking is not as clear as it should be and after just reading it I am sure that I may have more to say after I have had time to mull it over a bit more, but regardless I am glad that it is being discussed here because it is something that i have never given a voice to.

First let me say that i was sexually abused by my grandfather from a very young age until i was 12.

I have read what loreli wrote and it also does not sit well with me either. sexual abuse coupled with force and violence ofcourse would create a different set of feelings than that of the seduction of a child. but both are harmful and unacceptable. a child cannot consent to an adult act because they do not the emotional tools to do so. it is very common for the body to react physically to the touch of an abuser and it in no way signals consent. they may do something without the use of force but this speaks more to the sneaky, selfish, manipulations of the perpertrator than of the child. coaxing a child into thinking the sexually acts with an adult or a parent is only wrong because society says so distorts the thinking of the child into adulthood. I must say that i am very disturbed by the idea of gentle abuse and it does nothing but set back any progress made to move sexual abuse and incest out of the shadows so that survivors will feel more secure in sharing their stories and seeking help and place the shame where it belongs===onto the abuser.

that being said I do want to say that i can personally relate to being aroused when thinking about certain aspects of my abuse, not because i can at this point remember any physical pleasure but i believe it has something to do with the idea of my first sexual experience and that for me sex still means power. it is the idea of being powerful or overpowered that arouses and simultaneously disgusts me that i experience. i don't actually want this to happen to me and i do not want to degrade anyone else but in the moments before orgasm it feels like the only safe and not too vulnerable emotion.

August 2, 20069:06 am

Loralei

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Again my words have been twisted. I have never ever said that any kind of sexual abuse was ever acceptable or not harmful. Nor did I say that it's only wrong because society says so. I was only trying to point out that IN ADDITION to the sexual abuse that the ADDITIONAL shame that society heaps on top of the act can cause ADDITIONAL trauma to the victim.

Gentle abuse is also disturbing, I never said otherwise. But I would have to think that if I were a victim, that it would be FAR less traumatic than being physically penetrated by forced rape.

I also know that children do not have the same emotional tools to consent the same as an adult. I was only trying to distinguish between the child going along with the adult (by being seduced) as opposed to being physically forced. But I don't think it's fair to lump the victims of violent, painful rape into the same bunch as those who were gently abused. Yes, they were both crimes, but one was more severe than the other and therefore caused more damage. I don't see how recognizing the different forms abuse takes sets back any progress in victims reporting it. By saying that, I AM NOT condoning or accepting ANY kind or form of abuse. And the abuser should be the one to endure the shame and the punishment.

Here is another lame analogy. (I'm just trying to get some of you to see what I'm trying to say). If someone is in a car wreck, don't you think that the person who received the most injury, the one with all the broken bones and who suffered internal injuries needs a lot more help than the passenger who only suffered a mild whiplash? Yes, they were both in a car wreck. But the victims require different kinds and degrees of treatment for their injuries. It will take a lot more for some to heal than for others. Some will never heal completely.

Just to paint child abuse with one broad stroke implying that all suffered the same, I feel is very inaccurate and misleading. You can't tell me that the girl who had her boob fondled once in passing is as traumatized as the girl who was raped by a gang of men. Do you really think the perpetrators of the two separate incidents are equally guilty? (Don't misinterpret that as saying that the first isn't guilty at all)

I have no doubt that if you were a victim of sexual abuse or are involved with the victims, that the issue is emotionally highly charged. I'm on the outside approaching the subject from a very objective perspective. Each case is unique depending on the age of the child, what was actually done, how many times, over what period of time, the degree of physical pain, etc. This in no way lets the abuser off the hook for his crime. But I think the punishment should fit the crime, with the most horrendous perpetrators being punished the most severely. This does not imply that the gentle abuser wasn't also guilty.

I hope I've cleared up any misunderstandings. This is such an emotional topic that I think some of you read more into what I wrote than was there.

August 2, 200610:19 am

lovinglife

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Loralei~

Why you & I are even on this thread giving our two cents is beyond me. The poster (isavegas) was asking for OTHER female survivors input and since neither you nor I apparently fit into that category, then NEITHER of us really had any business posting on this thread.

And WHY I keep coming back to continue to put my two cents in is also beyond me. Perhaps it’s some of your terminology used (gentle abuse- consensual- FAR less traumatic). From my experiences with sexually abused ‘victims’ from one instance to repeatedly abused those words are not apart of MY vocabulary and never will be.

But to give the two of us credit here- sexual abuse of children is not something people like to talk about- to think about-and can make others feel uncomfortable just discussing it. And what I see here is that you and I in each of our little own ways- both obviously care about the topic and are both concerned for survivors.

August 2, 200610:24 am

lonelywoman

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Hi all....

My heart is breaking as I read these stories....Isavegas - I can only give you my opinion and that is all it is - my opinion - I have been the victim of 'gentle' abuse and violent rape....the feelings are no different for me....the anger/shame/guilt is there for both. I still on occassion have flashbacks and deal with anxiety. I know neither of the situations were my fault - but I still feel the shame....I DO know that the shame is NOT mine ....it is the agressors! As a child I had no control...even as an adult....I had no control....I cannot change what happened, but I CAN heal and move forward...I have said it in these posts before - some days - it is only one small baby step at a time - minute to minute...other times - the steps are bigger. Sometimes I fall back a step or two....but with the help of qualified counselors, great books, loving friends (husband) - I am moving foreward and you can too. I'm curious, have you ever been in counseling or a support group?

Sending you love and (((hugs)))

LW

August 2, 200610:43 am

isavegas

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Wow, alot of interesting responses here so far! No, never been in counsling or group meetings for it.

I uncomfortably use the phase "gentle abuse" because that is the current label for it. Besides by the time I've heard of women being brutally raped, passed around, or hurt badly as a child, I feel even more ashamed and perhaps not even "abused". I should have described my personal experience in dept for more tailored responses.

My memories of sexual abuse involve various alcohol-induced pleasurable and relaxing late night sessions with my busy workaholic father. Most sessions were filled with laughter and tickling while slowly and leisurely leading up to sex over time with no perceived pressure. Usually lights were dim and TV played in the background. I was encouraged to point out what felt good then he would happily comply even if it meant he was sent into the kitchen or other places to obtain whatever. This is normally a strict man who's belt we all feared.

See what I mean now by "gentle abuse"? This was on a pretty daily basis for a long time building up to actual sex acts from little accidental touches as he rubs my back or tickles me and blows raspberries on my tummy a little lower each time. He would keep himself in check as much as he could while working me over.

Keep in mind, those are the memories I do recall. There are also shadowy hints of pain and being pushed too far. There were others who molested me or at least tried. Those are the "blanks" I fear and wonder about. Perhaps those memories may slam into me one day. I'll probably snap if that happens especially in light of being aroused by the "gentle abuse" memories.

As an adult, logically I know those feelings and reactions were entirely manipulated by a very patient and single-track mind man. It's confusing because my father and I are currently on good terms. We never talk about it.

Yes, religion played a big part in our lives. My highly religious health-freak of a grandmother moved in with us after my mother left. Ironically mom left shortly after asking me one afternoon when I was five or six years old if he touched me. I remember her asking if he puts his fingers into me. I replied that he did and was confused by her crying. Don't remember much else.

As for activities being more consensual than coerced with gentle abuse.... I don't see how it is consensual at all when a child is being sexually trained at the age of three. Goodness - now that I think of it, I was trained to be an actual sex slave of some sort. Done in a seductive way probably. Yeah, there were times I'll get so "frustrated and bothered" like I had to pee or something that I would set it up to be used by him for the evening. Want to know something even worse? I recall begging so prettily for it after I got comfortable and used to it. I never understood the physical and mental frustration of needing sexual attention then. Still don't.

Mom was a stoner, Dad is a recovering alcoholic. I'm a distrusting alcoholic with several dumb phobias and an unrealistically low self-esteem never seeing the beauty everyone comments on. My saving grace growing up was my strict watchful grandmother (my Dad's mom) and school. Grandma kept men away from me and kept me morally clean. I was also lucky enough to have a insightful and trustworthy best friend for most of my childhood who made me realize that not all boys or men are scum. He was probably the only person I knew who was never confusing nor took advantage of me in any way. With him, a hug was actually a hug. Even grown women and other boys closer to my age hit on me growing up.

My entire childhood was filled with confusing contradictions, darkness, and favorism. For a period of time both mom and dad would kidnap me and my younger brother away from the other parent. Very chaotic and stressful time. Especially whenever mom took me because she always acted so hateful towards me but doted on my brother. Did I mentioned I was the splitting image of my mom and that she hated physical contact?

All that being said (and hopefully answered for some of you) it's a BIG relief to know how common arousal from old sexual abuse is. I'm tired of feeling alone and being in this sexual cycle. It's not very obvious (the sexual cycle) since I'm a faithful wife and actually enjoy sex with my husband. Arousal and flashbacks are part of this cycle. I swing from feeling obligated or disinterest to being almost nymphomaniac.

My husband is starting to notice some sort of cycle here and now questions the nympho stage even as he enjoys it. He tries so hard to remove those sexual blocks that sometimes prevent me from "cumming" fully that I suspect it borders along obsession sometimes. From my understanding all of his ex's cheated in front of him and both his parents ran around left and right. He deserves much more than half-assed shameful sexual abuse that intrude into our sex lives. Unlike most of my sex experience, he actually cares if I am sexually satisfied and doesn't ask too much in return. That's why I am finally trying to reach out and get help.

Sounds like sex is such a BIG part of my life. More than it should be probably. It's also very dangerous area and that's where I've gotten into the most trouble both in childhood and adulthood. Been in the sex industry up til I married my husband a few years ago. He cleaned me up, removed me from an intensely unhappy environment and kept me sober for the most part.

However, somewhere in the dark recess of my head, lurks a knowing and hungry sex demon that plays those memory flicks like reels in those old big theaters. Those "movie reels" also seductively hint at many more degradations and higher pleasures in such dangerously tempting manner that I'm scared of it. They come on the heels of those "highs" of my sexual cycles or when I find myself regretting not doing something sexually when I had the chance because I was too scared to explore especially with women. I never fear sexual rejection from men, just the occasional women who really attract me. I just don't understand why I would even have such thoughts or dreams when I AM quite happy with my husband in the bedroom for the most part. I'm even considering having a threesome or another couple in the bedroom if it's workable with my husband. That much cannot be normal!

Once again thanks for all of your inputs regardless if you guys agree among yourselves or not. I'm grateful for any insightful comment, advice, and personal experiences that are similar to mine. Please don't stop talking, lovinglife!

August 2, 200610:47 am

ggfred4

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I have got to comment as I am getting upset reading this thread. Just the words gentle, consensual, etc. are making me nauseated. My dad messed with me ongoing in my life. Know for sure it began as early as eight; he even did stuff when I was drugged after surgery at the age of 21. I was alert enough to feel those hands. I also was attacked forcefully. I am having a harder time w/dad issue. He was supposed to protect me not do what he did.

Loralei, I don't anyone on this site would say anything to cause any harm. I understand what you are saying yet I wanted you to understand that what you may consider as the less of my abuse is actually messing w/ my mind the most.

Loving, I almost feel like you were talking for me, realizing my feelings. But, it was time for me to step up and be heard. You have great insight into this issue; quit apologizing for being on this thread.

Both: You are both trying to help and different opinions and views are appreciated. We need to try and understand each other because we ALL need some kind of help.

August 2, 20069:00 pm

Randomwomen2

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I feel for you sweetheart I really do. My abuse was from my mother and father and they also kidnapped me from eachother. They also made me do drugs and drink. It takes so much courage to tell your story sweetheart. You were talking about church do you go now?? I know through my church we are starting a support group for vitims of childhood sexual abuse all you have to do is to talk to the right person sweetheart. there is a book out there called "The Wounded Heart" By Dr Dan B. Allender. Its a christian book that has helped me so increadbly much. I really recomend it. There is also a work book that you can get to go with it. You are not alone in your struggles sweetheart I get flashbacks durring sex too I go through periods where sex disgusts me and times where I cant get enough. PLEASE continue to talk about it hunny. ((((ISAVEGAS))))) We are here for you.

August 2, 20069:04 pm

Randomwomen2

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Have you been diagnosed with Post traumatic stress syndrome? I bet that you have it. It is very common among vitims of abuse

August 3, 20061:08 am

isavegas

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"Post traumatic stress syndrome"? Isn't that usually war related or intense trauma situations?

Well I just got insurance so perhaps I should consider counsling. Any ideas how to go about it?

Thanks!

August 3, 20061:43 am

Randomwomen2

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Sweetheart abuse of any kind is an intence trauma situation. Counseling would be a great idea. I would go with someone who specializes in sexual abuse and PTSD. Sometimes it takes a while to find the right one too. what ever you do please dont give up on getting help. ((HUGS))

August 3, 20067:23 pm

Randomwomen2

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bump

August 5, 20064:14 pm

Randomwomen2

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bump

August 5, 20067:42 pm

Anonymous

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((RW)) I´m so glad you bumped this thread up! You are so caring.

(((all))) that have contributed here, tks, this has been so informing.

(((isavegas))) I´m not a victim of sexual abuse. But for a while I have wondered about a time I spent with my dad in a hotel when I was about 7 or 8 because I thought my dad was too "open" about sex. This came up as I was confused about my sexual life with my xh.

That I remember (and nothing else came up with my sisters) being open included checking the growth of our breasts, being a family with no bathroom key that would see each other naked and on one occasion, seeing my dad aroused.

The reason I put my 2 cents in is that - along the lines of what Loralei - I too felt the shame of society (aunt) at times for having a dad like that. Gee, I have a cousin whos a psychologist and said seeing my dad aroused may have been detrimental to my emotional health. Well, my emotional health needs care alright, but for more than that.

What I wanna say is that even some misunderstanding in bed with my husband and the shadiest hint of abuse have been enough to get me worried at times. And yes, some condemned sex scenes like a gang rape in Jodie Foster´s movie have at one time had an appeal to me that was scary.

So, we are animals in some retreat of our minds, the most primitive part of it, and then we are the politically socially correct persons too. This is the dilemma. Now, I think that if eventually we decide which things are important to us (in the eantime we get annoyed by our indecision.) So if its respect, intimacy, trust and abandoment to the other half, then the lack of respect from an abusive parent is going to have an effect on us big time. If its sheer lust that counts, then the abuse may be down played.

In today´s society there is plenty of double patterns in those speaking for the welfare of children so that its hard sometimes to know whats normal, whats good beyond the pleasure of the moment. Or how much "openess" is going too far...

So, I think, each person needs to make up one´s mind, decide what was good or bad and face that which was bad to be able to live with it. Its great youre trying to do that.

Gentle abuse is still abuse to me, as even the hint os sexual abuse was enough to get me worried. I hope you o get your answers.