wow, now i got to know what stuff you're smoking coz this one blew my mind for a second there

why is it you're comparing '95 Bulls against the '97 Rockets? they're not even in the same era so i don't know whats your poin here? how about the '97 Bulls and '97 Rockets?

Reggie Miller is a career 18-4-4 player. Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, and Charles Barkley put up very similar numbers to a prime Tim Duncan but have no rings despite playing on better teams then Duncan. Clyde Drexler put up great numbers but did most of that in the 80s. He also never won anything. James Worthy was a great second/third option. Not much better than that though. Seriously, what makes those guys all time greats? Constantly choking against Michael Jordan? Putting up above average stats?

You're the one who brought up the 1997 Rockets when I was talking about the 1995 Bulls. Not me. The 1997 Bulls were better then the 1997 Rockets. That Houston team was disappointing.

you keep bringing up the "not so great" '95 Bulls when in reality that was hardly a shell of championship team that won from 91-93...only Pippen, MJ & P-Jax were the ones only left from the championship years...their roster were a mess, imagine Pippen & Kukoc playing for the same position and no one fills the void that Horace Grant left

1995 Magic were definitely a more solid team compared to 95 Bulls...they were younger & hungrier...MJ just recently came back from his baseball days and yet didn't have the grasp of his legendary skills he once displayed

'90's defense a joke compared to today? are you kidding right?

Well, Scottie Pippin lead that same team to the Semi Finals without Jordan. MJ comes back and guess what? They get to the Semi Finals. Same result. If Jordan hadn't retired for a year and a half and if they got past the Magic they still don't win a title. Hakeem and the Rockets had Jordan's number. The Bulls always played like crap against the Rockets.

I never said it was a joke.I just said it was easier to play defense back then. Which is a fact. The hand check rule makes it harder to play defense. Playing defense in the 90's was easier then in the modern era.

Reggie Miller is a career 18-4-4 player. Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, and Charles Barkley put up very similar numbers to a prime Tim Duncan but have no rings despite playing on better teams then Duncan. Clyde Drexler put up great numbers but did most of that in the 80s. He also never won anything. James Worthy was a great second/third option. Not much better than that though. Seriously, what makes those guys all time greats? Constantly choking against Michael Jordan? Putting up above average stats?

You're the one who brought up the 1997 Rockets when I was talking about the 1995 Bulls. Not me. The 1997 Bulls were better then the 1997 Rockets. That Houston team was disappointing.

you argued that Ewing, Malone & Barkley had similar numbers like Duncan yet Duncan won rings while the others didn't....well for me i think Duncan was lucky that he didn't faced MJ during his dominance or else he'll be in list of Hall of Famers fell victim challenging MJ

can you really blamed them for constantly choking against Jordan? i mean can you name me HOFers who DIDN'T choke against him in Finals?

Well, Scottie Pippin lead that same team to the Semi Finals without Jordan. MJ comes back and guess what? They get to the Semi Finals. Same result. If Jordan hadn't retired for a year and a half and if they got past the Magic they still don't win a title. Hakeem and the Rockets had Jordan's number. The Bulls always played like crap against the Rockets.

I never said it was a joke.I just said it was easier to play defense back then. Which is a fact. The hand check rule makes it harder to play defense. Playing defense in the 90's was easier then in the modern era.

yeah Scottie Pippen lead that same team without Jordan, but did you realize that only Jordan has left that roster? it IS still the championship team, only without MJ...Grant, Paxson, Cartwright, BJ even the coaching staff, they're still the core team that won 3 straight titles, you expect them just to get canned in 1st round just because MJ wasn't around?

so what if Bulls lost or played crap against Rockets? they never get to meet in playoffs unless they met in Finals so it doesn't hold water to your argument that Rockets had MJ's number...Bulls have waited for them in '97 but i guess they were not that tough enough get past Utah Grandpas

You can't be serious with this list. I mean come on, you really put Parish? Sabonis? Petrovic? Bird? McHale? Magic Johnson? Those guys were not playing at a Hall of fame level in the 90's. Hell Sabonis and Petrovic only got in the INTERNATIONAL Hall of Fame because of what they did in Europe. They were never that dominate in the NBA.

And even the prime Hall of Famers you named aren't considered all time greats or anything too crazy. Let's be serious. Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, James Worth, Clyde Drexler, and Reggie Miller will never be considered ATG. They're solid players who put up good numbers. Not much else though.

so you mean... hall of fame is worthless... nyahahaha...

so do you there are lots of ATG???? there are only few.

MJ did play with them in MID 80's. mchale and some others retires in mid 90's.

The comparison is 1997 Houston Rockets to 1995 Chicago Bulls. I'm not wrong. Go look up their ages in those years if you want. Hell, Clyde Drexler retire the year after that. They were old. In 1995 the Bulls had no one on their roster older then 31.

The Bulls did get revenge the following year, not arguing that. But I'm not going to ignore the fact that they lost to them in 95 like so many people like to do.

And the 90's was a weak era. I can see a case being made for the early 90's not being too bad because some of the ATG's from the 80's were still playing at a solid level, but the mid to late 90's was weak as hell. The expansion teams + below average players in the draft watered the league down.

PLS. take a look at their ROOKIE years... LOOK and TRY to read WELL.

those guys are same with MJ's ERA.

and this is not BOXING you are trying to say hakeem and clyde are old coz of

wear and tear. and they are ALL the same age with MJ, hakeem and barkley,

clyde is ahead of 1 year(try to read first). you are saying it is weak coz the

bulls got 6 out of 10 RINGS in that era. makes them weak but hell some of

them are all in 50 greatest players. when MJ won in 96/97/98, he is old by

then coz there are LOT of future to be greats didnt happen coz of MJ, like

penny and grant hill and others. and there are lots of weak you are saying like

Kobe and KG were drafted out of high school... lol

MAN take a look at the ROOKIES in 70's, 80's and 90's... half of 80's and 90's

Well, Scottie Pippin lead that same team to the Semi Finals without Jordan. MJ comes back and guess what? They get to the Semi Finals. Same result. If Jordan hadn't retired for a year and a half and if they got past the Magic they still don't win a title. Hakeem and the Rockets had Jordan's number. The Bulls always played like crap against the Rockets.

I never said it was a joke.I just said it was easier to play defense back then. Which is a fact. The hand check rule makes it harder to play defense. Playing defense in the 90's was easier then in the modern era.

man you dont know how to play basketball...lol

didnt you ever SAW.. the PISTONS DAYs??? were MJ and chicago swept

them? they did experience all kinds of DEF in mid 80's and 90's. after piston,

knicks got the same way in defending like piston way. try to read what does it

mean by ILLEGAL defense. so you mean after 90's, 2000's are greats again?

you argued that Ewing, Malone & Barkley had similar numbers like Duncan yet Duncan won rings while the others didn't....well for me i think Duncan was lucky that he didn't faced MJ during his dominance or else he'll be in list of Hall of Famers fell victim challenging MJ

can you really blamed them for constantly choking against Jordan? i mean can you name me HOFers who DIDN'T choke against him in Finals?

People saying this bothers me to no end. It is one of the stupidest things I hear all the time. As if Ewing, Barkley, and Malone only played for 6 years. As if every year they played Jordan beat all 3 of them. Get the f*ck out of here with that BS. The Knicks were able to get to the finals twice in the 90's and LOST both times. Hakeem and Duncan/Robinson beat them. You know why? Because they're superior players.

Karl Malone got drafted in 1985. Couldn't even make out of the Western Conference until he was in his mid 30's. You know what happened all those other years? He lost to lesser teams because he just isn't that great.

Charles Barkley is the definition of a choke job. Also drafted in 1985. Every single time he had an opportunity to win a title he always found some way to f*ck it up. Whether it was losing to the Rockets in a Jordan-less NBA or joining the Rockets and losing to the Utah "Grandpas" as you put it, he always found a way to LOSE.

Tim Duncan is the complete opposite. Him winning a title in 2003 is one of the most amazing things a PF has EVER done. He stopped the Laker dynasty that looked damn near unbeatable for 3 years. Look at his supporting cast. It was beyond horrible. No single player has ever won a title with a supporting cast that bad. He had an ancient Robinson, a rookie Manu Ginobili (who was only playing 20 min/game), and Tony Parker who was barely in his second year in his league. Tony Parker has one of the worst year in his career in 2003. Yet the Spurs still won a title.

I have no doubts in my mind that if you put Duncan in the 90's Jazz he'll find a way to win at least one title. He'll be more then capable of beating MJ's Bulls.

yeah Scottie Pippen lead that same team without Jordan, but did you realize that only Jordan has left that roster? it IS still the championship team, only without MJ...Grant, Paxson, Cartwright, BJ even the coaching staff, they're still the core team that won 3 straight titles, you expect them just to get canned in 1st round just because MJ wasn't around?

so what if Bulls lost or played crap against Rockets? they never get to meet in playoffs unless they met in Finals so it doesn't hold water to your argument that Rockets had MJ's number...Bulls have waited for them in '97 but i guess they were not that tough enough get past Utah Grandpas

See, I dont' get this. First you're telling me that the only reason so many of these PF's couldn't win a title was because MJ was dominating that era, but here, you admit, the Jazz team was old. The only time Jordan ever stopped Karl Malone was when he was past his prime. Jordan stopped an old Malone from winning a title. Great. Who stopped Karl Malone in his prime years? A bunch of good teams. Not all time great teams. Just above average teams.

Elite players don't consistently lose to teams like that in their primes. That's what players like Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, and yes, even Karl Malone do.