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Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Originally Posted by bomber999

Clearly I was being sarcastic in using the word "rejoicing" to make a point. Hughes has been pretty awful as a starter for over an entire year now, and one decent start against the Royals is not nearly enough for me to be sold on the idea of shipping Phelps to the pen when Pettitte returns or gushing about Hughes' "shiny peripherals". I would put forth that the "discussion on this board" also doesn't need posters trying to suppress comments that they find disagreeable.

Amen. There seems to be an undercurrent of hostility on this board toward anyone who says anything perceived as negative. I thought this was a place for expressing your opinion, whatever it may be. If you want strictly positive, feelgood comments, the Yankees have a press secretary for that. I've been a Yankee fan for over 50 years (yes, I'm that old--first game: May 1960, Yanks 4-2 over Tigers) and I think I'm entitled to say whatever the hell I want, within reason, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way about expressing there opinions. So let's drop the Pollyanna attitudes and try to be a little open minded about criticism.

"The fans like to see home runs, and we have assembled a pitching staff for their enjoyment."--Clark Griffith

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Originally Posted by bizzarrd

Amen. There seems to be an undercurrent of hostility on this board toward anyone who says anything perceived as negative. I thought this was a place for expressing your opinion, whatever it may be. If you want strictly positive, feelgood comments, the Yankees have a press secretary for that. I've been a Yankee fan for over 50 years (yes, I'm that old--first game: May 1960, Yanks 4-2 over Tigers) and I think I'm entitled to say whatever the hell I want, within reason, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way about expressing there opinions. So let's drop the Pollyanna attitudes and try to be a little open minded about criticism.

That's really funny, since, the majority of comments made this season on this board have been negative and even posts from those of us tagged as being Pollyanna in our attitudes.

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

This is why adding a solid change could launch Phil forward more than we think. It's not so much an extra piece, but could be the final piece. Then it's just a matter of fine tuning.

If it hasn't happened already, fat chance. I know Phil is still young, but the book on him since he was probably 20 years old has been he needs to develop a changeup to reach his potential. He's tried it already and I just don't see it happening. He's using it a bit more this year, but its just not an effective pitch for him. Even his curve is not much. He's pretty reliant on his fastball. Personally I'm starting to think he's bullpen bound. He could survive in the rotation, but I don't think he'll ever really thrive there. That's just my take though and I'd love to be wrong.

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Originally Posted by bizzarrd

Amen. There seems to be an undercurrent of hostility on this board toward anyone who says anything perceived as negative. I thought this was a place for expressing your opinion, whatever it may be. If you want strictly positive, feelgood comments, the Yankees have a press secretary for that. I've been a Yankee fan for over 50 years (yes, I'm that old--first game: May 1960, Yanks 4-2 over Tigers) and I think I'm entitled to say whatever the hell I want, within reason, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way about expressing there opinions. So let's drop the Pollyanna attitudes and try to be a little open minded about criticism.

Except that nobody has a problem with the fact that he has a different opinion. If that's what you actually believe, well then I don't know what to tell you.

He blew everyone's opinion on Hughes' outing out of proportion, implying that everyone is "rejoicing" over this. Nobody is stating "Hughes is back!" He got called on that & is trying to backtrack.

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Originally Posted by primetime714

If it hasn't happened already, fat chance. I know Phil is still young, but the book on him since he was probably 20 years old has been he needs to develop a changeup to reach his potential. He's tried it already and I just don't see it happening. He's using it a bit more this year, but its just not an effective pitch for him. Even his curve is not much. He's pretty reliant on his fastball. Personally I'm starting to think he's bullpen bound. He could survive in the rotation, but I don't think he'll ever really thrive there. That's just my take though and I'd love to be wrong.

The question I have is whether the pitch is ineffective in your opinion because of his stubborness in not using it enough in every start?

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Originally Posted by Yankees1962

The question I have is whether the pitch is ineffective in your opinion because of his stubborness in not using it enough in every start?

I'm not basing this on my opinion but rather pitch effectiveness on Fan Graphs. Now I can't tell you if the reason its been ineffective is because he hasn't committed enough to consistently throwing it and perfecting it, but I can tell you that people have been telling this guy for about 5 years now that he needs to develop a changeup and its still not to a point where he feels like he can use it much in games. That tells me that its merely a "show me" pitch and its never going to develop into a true weapon. If it was truly effective and he was just too stubborn to throw it don't you think that his pitching coach or catcher might intervene and push for greater frequency of use?

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Originally Posted by primetime714

I'm not basing this on my opinion but rather pitch effectiveness on Fan Graphs. Now I can't tell you if the reason its been ineffective is because he hasn't committed enough to consistently throwing it and perfecting it, but I can tell you that people have been telling this guy for about 5 years now that he needs to develop a changeup and its still not to a point where he feels like he can use it much in games. That tells me that its merely a "show me" pitch and its never going to develop into a true weapon. If it was truly effective and he was just too stubborn to throw it don't you think that his pitching coach or catcher might intervene and push for greater frequency of use?

Then he's doom as a long-term answer to the Yankee starting rotation because I don't see him getting another chance after this season.

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14

Looking forward to his next start, for sure.

I'll restrain any enthusiasm for Phil until that next start, to see how he does against the Jays, a much better hitting team, in that launching-pad of a ballpark in Toronto. I'm encouraged that he pitched that well today, but it is Seattle after all.

Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

Where are all the haters who want to send him to the pen? Nowhere to be found.

Why is this necessary?

The people who questioned his place in the rotation a couple of starts ago were well within their right logically.

"Hater" is such a terrible word when used incorrectly.

And it's basically used incorrectly 90% of the time(statistical fact).

Hopefully he keeps building off of his recent success and grows close to being the pitcher we all thought and hoped he would be but if he goes on another stretch of terrible pitching people are well within their right to discuss it with out being labeled a "hater."