Hey guys...this is my first post in this section of the forum...but I've been stalking you guys for a few months now (lol) and really feeling the urge to begin a project - not a restoration, but just building on an old school frame with new components and new paint.

i am 183cm (but ride a 56cm bike at the moment)
When i was fitted for it the bike shop dudes said i was somewhere in the middle between a 56 and 58 and naturally because of my noobness i picked the smaller frame. (not that i am complaining - it seems to fit well)

so yeah - i have some questions...
if i bought it - and i'm still a little unsure of what sort of "project" i wanna take on at this stage - i would like to put a new school campag groupset on it....there shouldn't be any problem with that - right?

can anyone tell what size the rims are?

i've probably got heaps of other questions but i'll leave it at that fr now.

Looks nice David, 27" wheels methinks, which may cause issues with modern brakes if you decide to go 700c I don't know Campy well enough to gainsay fitting upgrade bits, but IIRC, there is a few similar project owners about, I'm sure they'll give you more help.

Shaun

...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.London Boy 29/12/2011

I suspect that it's a 60's era frame, perhaps early 70's, with its Campagnolo fork ends, but these are listed as being on the frame only. This fact & the photo suggests to me that the forks have been replaced at some time in its life & these look pretty good from the limited view that we have of them.

With it's 22-1/2" frame it will probably be just fine for a 6 footer as long as the right stem is used. Lets drop this metric measurement rubbish when it comes to these older frames as they were built to proper Imperial standards & the metric conversions are rarely accurate [ie,22-1/2" actually = 57.15cm & 23" = 58.42cm. The nominated 57.5cm = 22.637795" & nobody used this size unless the frame was custom built to customers own measurements.]

In my view, the only componentry upgrade that should be considered would be Campagnolo Record, Super Record & Neuovo Record items.
My Lennie Rogers is equiped like this & it's almost as good as se* to ride.

This frame, equiped with this Classic, still fairly readily available & reasonably priced high class, & appropriate-to-the-period componentry, will be the envy of just about all your mates & one need NEVER feel second class in ANY company with a class act like this.

So there you go, as long as the frame is suitably sized for you, & as long as it sells for a reasonable price, then you would have a good foundation for a great project. Fit it with the right Campy gear & it's will be a bike you can show to your grandchildren with pride.
Oh yeah, a Brooks B17 Champion Standard, or Narrow or other similar brooks saddle would quite naturally be a given, & if you break it in gently, then you will never regret it.

I think at 57cm c to c seat tube it is a touch small - different if you have shorter legs. I think at 57cm it is ridable though. The only problem will be the limit mark on the seatpost.

I would estimate the frame to be a 60's or early 70's frame with one set of bottle cage bosses and no brazed on gear lever bosses, no brake cable guides and a clamp on front derailleur. That era is great but it is getting harder to find frames.

The front forks are track forks with their round blades. Road forks are ovalised to take the stresses transmitted through rough road surfaces.

The Nervex pro lugs are very desirable and the Normandy hubs were the budget buy hubs yet they were quite common and pretty good. I think the flip flop rear hub is probably a bit older then the bike but it would make a great talking point.

I think you would have to get rid of the modern components and go the Campy route as Kid Carbine suggests.

Buying a bike in the 60's was usually filled with compromises. You'd get a frame and build it with what you could afford. You may have desired Campagnolo but you may have had to settle for Zeus - thus the Normandy hub.

I think Campy would be nice but you do have options.

Oh the forks - I'd stick with the track forks, they should be OK but probably a little twitchy and could have little toe clearance.

For $100 - I'd buy it. I think $200 wouldn't be unreasonable but I'd think twice about buying it for more.

GarryF is right on the money. With the track forks, it will be a bit twitchy to ride at first, but keep the bike moving & it's a riding characteristic that is soon conquered & quickly appreciated if you like a good riding pace.

Check the seatpost for size. The seller claims that the tubing is "most likely" 531 D/B. If it is, then the correct seatpost will be 27.2mm [British seatpin size No.5], but if it's 26.8mm, then the tubing is something else, possibly 531 plain guage, but still good & both of my Nervex Pro lugged SJH track frames are 26.8 [British seatpin size No.4]

Agreed that the Normandy hubs were just as Gary said, one of those compromises that you made when you bought a quality frame but couldn't afford to make it a quality bike, ... at first. The hubs were a popular, affordable component & the double sided freewheel/fixed wheel threading means that the same wheel could be used for both the road & track season.
This is what happened with my stepfathers Lennie Rogers bike. I rebuilt it & completed it off the way that he wanted it, but couldn't afford at the time. [all Campy] That Campagnolo stuff was damned expensive back when it was new but quality stuff is quality stuff forever.

I'd love to get my hands on anything with these Nervex lugs. I guess they are a sure bet on a high end frame in any case.
I wouldn'd do anything to it that can't be reversed - my vote would be to keep it classic.
Cheers,
Guido

The toe overlap with the front wheel isn't a problem when you'r riding along but if you slow down to a near stop and you turn the bars a bit more than normal sometimes your toe can foul the front wheel - result - falling off (or nearly). I've had a few bikes that do this but it's never a problem - you just remember it and allow for the toe overlap.

As for a Campy gruppo - it was always cheaper to buy a doner bike and use the parts. I've found the problem being that I get another bike - I don't strip it - just end up with another bike.

Sometimes you see complete gruppo's on ebay - the next cheapest option then finally you have can buy each component separately, probably from the same source.

As for groupset - I'd go for a Nuovo Record / Record groupset. Super Record was introduced in 1973. The Record groupset may be hard to find and expensive. It had a crankset with a 151mm PCD for the chainring bolt holes. This changed to 141mm PCD in 1968. Nuovo Record rear derailleur and bottom bracket were introduced in 1967. Yes, I'd look for a Nuovo Record Gruppo first. (Nuovo Record rear derailleur, Record front Derailleur, Record 141 pcd cranks, Record brakeset (introduced in 1868), 2 bolt micro adjustable seatpost and record hubs (if you want a full groupset) and cinelli bars and 1a stem.)

If that is difficult, I'd then look towards a Super Record Gruppo. Problem with that is that the 1st generation rear derailleur is very expensive (rare). You may be looking at $300 - $350 for the derailleur alone.

Next option - later model Super Record. Pretty easy to source and really good stuff.

A frame like yours would look best dressed up in the best 'era' components.

27" tyres are available at any bikeshop.

That sounds quite extensive but its stuff you can get over time.

I suggest checking out the Campyonly website - I think they have copies of the old Campy catalogues there. Have a look at catalogues #15, #16 & #17.

Best of luck,

Gary.

Last edited by GaryF on Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.