MP173 wrote:Outstanding video...thanks for the link and the great discussion.

Now, to the blank sheet of paper and ideas...

Ed

So far, I was careful to recommend a free resource, an Internet video. However, if you want to do effective design of your life, you may want to purchase the book. The book does not only contain extensive explanations of different types of lives and the criteria for evaluating these lives, but also examples and templates.

In my copy of the book (hardcover), there is a blank form on page 102, which would be easy to copy and duplicate. A template is more convenient than a blank sheet of paper, I think.

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

I'll check it out, thanks. And it's VictoriaF, not Veronica--the second strike out after the naval debacle.

VF

I'm on a roll, aren't I? I've never addressed you as Veronica before [note to self: stop having wine with breakfast]. And I liked the naval "debacle" (I feel everyone needs "a sudden and ignominious failure" once in a while).

Interesting (and perhaps timely?) you mentioned you've been doing improv and standup. There's lots of it where I live. After reading the book, I thought about doing improv only because it would absolutely terrify me, hence, being the correct course of action.

I'm curious how many people take a design approach to financial independence. Since the age of about 30, I was influenced by the aforementioned Tracy's (and that of others) work on the importance of having a purpose, vision, mission, values, goals and objectives, as well as "programs" (strategies, tactics) to execute on that (sound familiar?). The result is a thoughtful plan which leads to a well-balanced life (as much as possible). The payoff is having the financial infrastructure to optimize the (personally meaningful) qualitative aspects of life both before and after retirement.

2015 wrote:Interesting (and perhaps timely?) you mentioned you've been doing improv and standup. There's lots of it where I live. After reading the book, I thought about doing improv only because it would absolutely terrify me, hence, being the correct course of action.

If you are in L.A. you are in the comedy haven. Comedy Store is probably the best known of the clubs and it helped launching careers of many famous comedians including David Letterman, Jay Leno, Steve Martin, and others. Consider taking a class at Comedy Store that would include a graduation stage performance there. Then you'll have a video of your own performance at Comedy Store, and the sky will be your limit. Forget about being terrified, there are better things in life than self-terror.

Victoria

P.S. My suggestion is based on my own experience. I took classes at DC Improv and will be in the standup graduation show this week. DC Improv is the best and best-located club in D.C. I will be joining ranks of many local comedian with YouTube videos of their performance on the DC Improv stage.

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

2015 wrote:Interesting (and perhaps timely?) you mentioned you've been doing improv and standup. There's lots of it where I live. After reading the book, I thought about doing improv only because it would absolutely terrify me, hence, being the correct course of action.

If you are in L.A. you are in the comedy haven. Comedy Store is probably the best known of the clubs and it helped launching careers of many famous comedians including David Letterman, Jay Leno, Steve Martin, and others. Consider taking a class at Comedy Store that would include a graduation stage performance there. Then you'll have a video of your own performance at Comedy Store, and the sky will be your limit. Forget about being terrified, there are better things in life than self-terror.

Victoria

P.S. My suggestion is based on my own experience. I took classes at DC Improv and will be in the standup graduation show this week. DC Improv is the best and best-located club in D.C. I will be joining ranks of many local comedian with YouTube videos of their performance on the DC Improv stage.

Congratulations on your graduation! How cool you'll be in the YT videos. Yes, there are quite a few places to take classes, all of which are close to me. I would only be looking to do this for the experience, as competition related to anything entertainment here is nothing short of staggering. I agree anything is better than self-terror, which is why at least having the experience is the correct course of action.

2015 wrote:Congratulations on your graduation! How cool you'll be in the YT videos. Yes, there are quite a few places to take classes, all of which are close to me. I would only be looking to do this for the experience, as competition related to anything entertainment here is nothing short of staggering. I agree anything is better than self-terror, which is why at least having the experience is the correct course of action.

Thank you.

Please note that I have not done anything special. I have signed for courses in the best comedy club in D.C., which was slightly more expensive than courses in other clubs, but well worth it. I started with Beginner Improv for which there were no admission requirements. Then I took Level-2 Improv with the same instructor, which I liked better because my fellow comedians had more experience and there was a graduation show. Then I took Level-3 Improv, which I liked less than Level-2, because it was long-form and there was no graduation show. Then I started taking Level-2 with various instructors when I could fit it into my schedule around travel.

The stand-up course was the most difficult to sign for, because it's offered at DC Improv only a few times per year by an excellent comedian who comes to D.C. from Philadelphia. But I lucked out with his March-April course and will be graduating on Wednesday.

The points of my story are that (1) it's worth is to go for the best and (2) 80% of success is showing up.

Victoria

Last edited by VictoriaF on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

btenny wrote:Was stand up on your list of things to do when you retired? Or is it a part of a new life you are designing?

Have fun and good luck....

It was not on my list of things to do. I decided to try Improv after I saw a show with a family member (in a different state). As I noted above, I was taking Improv courses for fun, and signed for Standup because several of my Improv classmates were taking it. Now, I like Standup better than Improv.

Designing life around Standup is very appealing, if you don't depend on it for income. In the Designing Your Life framework, it's a life where money and embarrassment are not problems.

Writing and refining routines is a creative process. New jokes pop up in my mind around the clock, and I start refining them for the next performance. Open mics are easy provided you come to a bar early. Once, I did two open mics in two different clubs on one night. Moving up the Standup ladder is more involved: you progress from open mics to opening shows to getting scheduled performances. To get noticed, you show up. One book recommends to do at least 4 open mics per week for several years. I am not that committed, but I will be doing open mics several times per month when I am not traveling.

Victoria

Last edited by VictoriaF on Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

Fallible wrote:From what I read here, a connection I see to investing might be in setting an asset allocation, i.e., the similarity between designing a life and designing an allocation. In both cases it's about finding oneself and what is right for oneself. An asset allocation, to become a course that one can stay through market crashes, includes knowing personal goals, financial capacity, and one's emotional tolerance for risk, for losing lots of money. Could the "design" course ever be directly applied to AA?

Hi Fallible,

In Dave Evans's terminology, Asset Allocation is a business problem. Early in the video, he distinguishes different types of problems:
- in engineering problems all the data are stable, one has to select correct formulas, but once an engineering project is complete it remains stable
- in business problems data are uncertain, and practitioners deal with probabilities and what-if scenarios
- in research problems a scientist comes up with a hypothesis and tests it according to the applicable scientific method
- in design problems a designer is doing, finding problems, re-doing, fixing new problems, and so on.

The future market performance is unknown, but we can try to guess which past patterns are likely to repeat themselves. We decide on Asset Allocation based on our confidence in our predictions, on our aversion to risk, and on the size of our portfolio which may enable us to take less risk. Thus, it's a business problem.

Life design, as a design problem, requires experimenting with one's own life. The connection to the personal finance is in the amount and type of financial resources our alternative life paths may require. Examples:
- if you want to become an entrepreneur, you need greater assets to withstand the fluctuations in your business viability
- if you want to have many children, the expenses are relatively predictable but are higher than for someone with few or no children
- if you want to become an artist, prepare to become a starving artist and take anything more than that as a gift.

In the list above, I have emphasized the financial aspects of the life design. The program Design Your Life includes finances as one criterion; there are several others. You start by thinking what you would like to do and then you get a reality check. Importantly, the reality check is not purely theoretical, i.e., you don't just say "I have enough money to be a starving artist." You also prototype being a starving artist: you try to live a prototype of your desired life and you talk to people who already live this life.

I hope my explanations help, but I strongly recommend to watch the 1-hour video I linked in the OP.
Victoria

Hi Victoria,

Thanks for explaining. I plan to watch the video, but It does seem that the deeply personal and mentally demanding process of designing an asset allocation, in particular knowing life goals, then achieving the finances, and then determining how much risk (and uncertainty) can be handled, is prime territory for the "Design" curriculum, but only indirectly. Would you agree with that?

Thanks for explaining. I plan to watch the video, but It does seem that the deeply personal and mentally demanding process of designing an asset allocation, in particular knowing life goals, then achieving the finances, and then determining how much risk (and uncertainty) can be handled, is prime territory for the "Design" curriculum, but only indirectly. Would you agree with that?

Going OT now, but good luck on the improv!

Hi Fallible,

Yes, I agree with you that designing one's life is a prerequisite to designing one's financial strategy, including a desired level of saving, an asset allocation, and projected retirement age.

Thank you for good wishes, but right now I need luck on the Standup!

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

Thanks for explaining. I plan to watch the video, but It does seem that the deeply personal and mentally demanding process of designing an asset allocation, in particular knowing life goals, then achieving the finances, and then determining how much risk (and uncertainty) can be handled, is prime territory for the "Design" curriculum, but only indirectly. Would you agree with that?

Going OT now, but good luck on the improv!

Hi Fallible,

Yes, I agree with you that designing one's life is a prerequisite to designing one's financial strategy, including a desired level of saving, an asset allocation, and projected retirement age.

Thank you for good wishes, but right now I need luck on the Standup! ...

Life planning is the most efficient process for delivering freedom into a person’s life that I think exists. So it is a process that has been adopted by financial planners in particular, I think because financial planning is so holistic in its concern with all the aspects of money in a person’s life. And financial planners in particular have gravitated toward it because in order for us to experience freedom in our lives most of us need to answer or resolve or address financial issues.

Thanks for all of your conversation on this topic. I have mentioned it to three people, two of which indicated they will be viewing the lecture.

I plan on going to the library for the book, if it will be a "reference book" for my life, then I will purchase it.

So, will you be sharing the link to your graduation performance? I certainly hope so.

Personally, I bounce around with a number of interests using the term "renting hobbies" to describe my many interests. In fact, I can think of 6 "interests" I have outside of work, tending to bounce from one to another. A recent one was a fairly intense 3 months of learning to read treble clef and play the electric bass. Suddenly that came to a screeching halt and I began planting my vegetable garden. As soon as the clouds move out of the picture, I will go outside at night with my telescope and resume astronomy, etc.

So is it normal to bounce around, "renting hobbies" and would a DYL plan intensify those interests...or put them by the side?

LadyGeek wrote:Would there be any connection between "life planning" and Life-cycle finance?

Hi LadyGeek,

I was not thinking about it, but now that you've mentioned it, I think there is an important relation between designing one's life and life-cycle finance, or consumption smoothing.

Life design comes first. Let's say you want to have a two-part life: as a well-paid manager and as a creative artist. You may design your life so that you are a manager during the first half or your working life and an artist during the second half. In this case, you must spend very little as a manager and save for future years of no income.

Alternatively, you may want to be a starving artist first and a manager later. In this case, you need to borrow money for the years of doing art and pay them back during the years of good salary.

For most people spending matches income: when they make little they spend little, when they make a lot they spend a lot. Life-cycle finance guides people to be more cognizant of their future opportunities and future hardships and to adjust their current spending in order to avoid large fluctuation in consumption. Thus the relation is: to be able to implement life-cycle principles one must have a life design.

There is another relation between the two. Life Design relies on rapid prototyping, on the ability to test your own desires simply and quickly. If you are a manager who dreams to become a starving artist, your rapid prototype must include trying to live a frugal life with the understanding that this would be your consumption-smoothed life for the rest of your life. Many Bogleheads are naturally frugal, and my last clause would not disturb them. But in the world outside this Forum, the need to reduce one's expenses, especially when there is no financial pressure to economize, can lead to a failed prototype. A manager may decide never to become a starving artist.

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

Thanks for all of your conversation on this topic. I have mentioned it to three people, two of which indicated they will be viewing the lecture.

Ed,

If you have several people interested in life design, you could create a work group where you'd be reviewing each other's designs, learning from each other, and guiding each other. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, my first introduction to these concepts was at a 4-hour workshop. After a presentation similar to the video linked in the OP, we were asked to design our lives and then discuss them with others in pairs, then to have table discussions, and finally each table to nominate one person to tell everybody any interesting insights uncovered at the table.

MP173 wrote:I plan on going to the library for the book, if it will be a "reference book" for my life, then I will purchase it.

So, will you be sharing the link to your graduation performance? I certainly hope so.

It depends on whether I like how I look in the video.

MP173 wrote:Personally, I bounce around with a number of interests using the term "renting hobbies" to describe my many interests. In fact, I can think of 6 "interests" I have outside of work, tending to bounce from one to another. A recent one was a fairly intense 3 months of learning to read treble clef and play the electric bass. Suddenly that came to a screeching halt and I began planting my vegetable garden. As soon as the clouds move out of the picture, I will go outside at night with my telescope and resume astronomy, etc.

So is it normal to bounce around, "renting hobbies" and would a DYL plan intensify those interests...or put them by the side?

I too sometimes feel uneasy moving from one hobby to another, but I think it's consistent with the rapid prototyping concept. You try numerous things that you think you may like. If you really like it, you stick with it. If you like it, but something else seems very appealing, you put the previous thing aside and try the new one. With time you accumulate a number of hobbies that you can alternate or mix, or that will lead you to new hobbies.

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

Life planning is the most efficient process for delivering freedom into a person’s life that I think exists. So it is a process that has been adopted by financial planners in particular, I think because financial planning is so holistic in its concern with all the aspects of money in a person’s life. And financial planners in particular have gravitated toward it because in order for us to experience freedom in our lives most of us need to answer or resolve or address financial issues.

2015, thanks for posting the link. I found it very interesting. I'm still thinking about my reaction to it. I'm not entirely sure how society would function if everyone were following his concept of "freedom". Maybe the 1% of Bogleheads have the means to design their lives. But I'm not so sure about the guy who picks up my trash or the mailperson who delivers my mail. Its most unlikely that they feel passion about this in their lives. Maybe I need to listen to it again - tomorrow.

If you scroll down, you'll see the transcript of the entire podcast (I personally find reading easier/faster than listening). To me, retirement has been very much about freedom, but there's more to it than that. He expounds somewhat on financial planning from a life planning viewpoint both before and after retirement.

one of the things that we’re really trying to help the person with is to live in a way that energizes themselves so that they’re much more successful economically with their work, they’re much more alive in their family, they feel that their life is one that is flourishing with vitality. And so the kind of goals that we get to really are goals having to do, I think, more with meaning and perhaps happiness and fulfillment.

Thanks, reading is much easier for me than listening to a podcast. Retirement may bring you freedom but for many people that is many years away. He has a passage at the end:

For me I think what success is is maximizing the moments of freedom that I live in throughout my life. And part of that freedom for me is maximizing the amount of freedom I can deliver to people around me. So moments of freedom is a very small thing, but I think it goes down to that. How many moments in a day do we experience a real vitality, a flourishing quality inside of our life, an excitement, a delight? So it’s not about so much about external things other than wanting to spread this so that this happens for as many people as possible.

He appears to be equating freedom with a "real vitality, an excitement .." etc. I worked into my seventies, did not much like my job but it paid for my passion which was trotting around the globe. I did not need the "freedom" of retirement to enjoy my life.

After I came up with the idea, I shook index fingers with Jack Bogle. And this is how I greet many Bogleheads at the annual conferences and local meetings.

Well, in my opinion, that makes it official. Think of the Constitution's Article II, Section 3 power of the Executive to "receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers," which has developed into the recognition power of the president. If our President receives an ambassador, that recognition legitimizes the sending country. Mr. Bogle both received and recognized the index hand shake, so that makes it-- if not the Boglehead handshake-- certainly a legitimate and uniquely Bogle-ish greeting.

"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anais Nin |
|
"Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious." George Orwell

After I came up with the idea, I shook index fingers with Jack Bogle. And this is how I greet many Bogleheads at the annual conferences and local meetings.

Well, in my opinion, that makes it official. Think of the Constitution's Article II, Section 3 power of the Executive to "receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers," which has developed into the recognition power of the president. If our President receives an ambassador, that recognition legitimizes the sending country. Mr. Bogle both received and recognized the index hand shake, so that makes it-- if not the Boglehead handshake-- certainly a legitimate and uniquely Bogle-ish greeting.

Thank you, cinghiale,

You have legitimized my most important Bogleheads contribution.

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

Lynette wrote:Thanks, reading is much easier for me than listening to a podcast. Retirement may bring you freedom but for many people that is many years away. He has a passage at the end:

For me I think what success is is maximizing the moments of freedom that I live in throughout my life. And part of that freedom for me is maximizing the amount of freedom I can deliver to people around me. So moments of freedom is a very small thing, but I think it goes down to that. How many moments in a day do we experience a real vitality, a flourishing quality inside of our life, an excitement, a delight? So it’s not about so much about external things other than wanting to spread this so that this happens for as many people as possible.
He appears to be equating freedom with a "real vitality, an excitement .." etc. I worked into my seventies, did not much like my job but it paid for my passion which was trotting around the globe. I did not need the "freedom" of retirement to enjoy my life.

Maybe I'll reread it later - thanks.

Lynette

Trust me, retirement was "many years away" for me for a long time. The last two years seemed like an eternity. In the last 1-2 years before retirement, I was dangerously burnt out--in danger of walking out just about every minute or so. Getting close to financial independence will do that to you.

Now, in retirement, I realize I didn't so much want to retire, as get out of the field I spent so much of my life in. Though not at all looking for any kind of new career, according the following article on the six major paths retirees follow, I am probably #2, an "Adventurer", who "see retirement as an opportunity to pursue an unrealized dream or try something new":

2015 wrote:according the following article on the six major paths retirees follow, I am probably #2, an "Adventurer", who "see retirement as an opportunity to pursue an unrealized dream or try something new":

Nancy K. Schlossberg wrote:2. Adventurers see retirement as an opportunity to pursue an unrealized dream or try something new. Jane, a retired teacher, turned her hobby of raising goats into her new life. She bought a small farm and raises angora goats. She is making yarn and selling it at craft fairs.

Goats are too reckless; please consider sheep. Also, Designing Your Life is closer to being a Searcher:

Nancy K. Schlossberg wrote:5. Searchers are retirees who are looking for their niche. At some point, any one of us may be a searcher. We might retire, then adventure into a new path, and then when that has played out, we might search again.

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

2015 wrote:according the following article on the six major paths retirees follow, I am probably #2, an "Adventurer", who "see retirement as an opportunity to pursue an unrealized dream or try something new":

Nancy K. Schlossberg wrote:2. Adventurers see retirement as an opportunity to pursue an unrealized dream or try something new. Jane, a retired teacher, turned her hobby of raising goats into her new life. She bought a small farm and raises angora goats. She is making yarn and selling it at craft fairs.

Goats are too reckless; please consider sheep. Also, Designing Your Life is closer to being a Searcher:

Nancy K. Schlossberg wrote:5. Searchers are retirees who are looking for their niche. At some point, any one of us may be a searcher. We might retire, then adventure into a new path, and then when that has played out, we might search again.

Victoria

Then I be a Searcher.

I herded sheep, goats and cats--and even a few foxes and snakes--of the human kind when I was working. I have no interest in doing that with the animal kind in retirement.

The Kitces article above was aimed at FA's. Financial goals are ultimately a means to an end consisting of lifestyle goals. Over the course of one's life, values tend to drift if not change outright. I view the purpose of lifestyle design with periodic review as a way to ensure one's financial goals still align with one's values at the current point in time.

The Kitces article above was aimed at FA's. Financial goals are ultimately a means to an end consisting of lifestyle goals. Over the course of one's life, values tend to drift if not change outright. I view the purpose of lifestyle design with periodic review as a way to ensure one's financial goals still align with one's values at the current point in time.

I agree. Will add more when I get back home.

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)