Per-groundhog earlier...(cause I think he was interested in silica related to MSP)

Silica is a serious issue if you explore silica mines & caves, like here in MSP. Asbestos and pigeon shit isn't what's going to kill us... it's the development of silicosis in the lungs. You see, when you enter a sand cave that has a low moisture content or the sand particles are been being mechanically broken /kicked up (digging, carving, walking on rocks, throwing sand, etc.) it gets into the air. A small amount of it gets embed in your lungs and will scratch & scar your lungs, preventing oxygen to pass from the air sacks to the blood vessels in the lungs. If this scaring builds up over enough time you can develop silicosis, and essentially suffocate to death. There is no cure. So use caution when you're out exploring those caves, else you'll end up like all us old fuck explorers who can't breathe for shit anymore!

click for more info! If you want to protect the locations you love to explore, don't talk about them online in public! If you want to make exploring friends, send people private messages! Meet up in real life! Get off the internet!Don't try to have a UER e-penis! You won't impress anyone! This especially means you, Minneapolis MN newbies!

Except that you'll be hard pressed to ever eat that much silica unless you are industrially exposed daily. You have to breathe a huge amount of it to develop silicosis.

If your lungs hurt afterward, you are doing damage, a sure sign. No worries, you will recovery fully as long as you don't keep doing it.Don't make a habit of it though. Remember there may be other contaminants present as well. Your security measures were inadequate.How unfortunate for you.

back on topic, yes there are many threats to the health of miners and drainers as well as anyone in the MSP area.... When I say I'm 'clean and sober', it means I've showered and I'm headed to the liquor store.

I work in an environment that is RICH in airborn silica (we manufacture clay for potters and artists) and I can tell you that silica and silicosis is no joke. I have friends who are crippled by the disease and its not pretty or fast--its takes its time and makes sure you hurt on the way out. Particulate respirators that fit (shave that beard for christ's sake!) are a MUST. It, like many other things, is cumulative-it gets in your lungs and stays there... Thanks for bringing this up mario--its important.

Posted by MrSivallsExcept that you'll be hard pressed to ever eat that much silica unless you are industrially exposed daily. You have to breathe a huge amount of it to develop silicosis.

If your lungs hurt afterward, you are doing damage, a sure sign. No worries, you will recovery fully as long as you don't keep doing it.Don't make a habit of it though. Remember there may be other contaminants present as well.

yes, seriously.... here in MSP we have drains and silica caves (very few abandoned buildings). We spend a lot of time in very close quarters with sand, and it has definitely taken a toll on a most of us to some extent. Most people complain about breathing issues, some chest pains if digging for too long, some have developed or re-irritated old asthma and allergies, some people complain of having less breath than they used to (could be cigarette smoke).

But, yea, it's no joke up here, even if we joke that we'll all die from silicosis at 45.

.....

One time on a Strategic Beer Command trip out to Nevada we explored this mine. I remember walking around and kicking up huge plumes of super-fine dust, like powdered sugar. Hell, most of my flash-photography photos wouldn't turn out, because it was pure orbz blocking all of the mine features! The dust was quartzite in powder form, and it covered ever inch this mine, sometimes 6 inches deep. We explored it for about 5 hours, the whole time breathing this stuff in and knowing what it was, trying to cover our faces as best as possible. By the time we got out the three of us that went in could barely breathe because our lungs hurt so bad. I think I might have remembered coughing up blood, but I might be imagining it. Either way once we got home and realized just how severe of damage we were doing to ourselves, we definitely remembered to pack respirators on the return trip the next year (a rarely-used piece of equipment for us).

the wikipedia article is changed, but it used to say that the average worker's life span at that mine was 4 months. There were around 700 widowed wives in that town because of the mine and the silicosis-causing dust inside there. The dust was extremely dangerous because it used a dry-mining technique where the walls were ground down without water to subside the dust (they were in the desert in the 19th century and had to have water delivered from over 10 miles away, so it was too precious to waste in the mine.)

More food for thought. [last edit 2/25/2012 8:54 AM by shotgun mario - edited 1 times]If you want to protect the locations you love to explore, don't talk about them online in public! If you want to make exploring friends, send people private messages! Meet up in real life! Get off the internet!Don't try to have a UER e-penis! You won't impress anyone! This especially means you, Minneapolis MN newbies!

Posted by TheRebelUrbanExplorerThank you for this thread. This is some good shit! I recently quit smoking after 18 years, so my lungs also thank you. Respirator, here I come.

Nice--I mean to mention this in my previous post, but the tar from cig. smoke amplifies silica's effects, allowing more of it to stay in your lungs, so if you do smoke, wearing a respirator in a silica rich environment is that much more important.

How many years have you worked with it? I have over ten years. Eat it everyday for a couple of years, decades, yeah, you'll probably get some spots on your lungs (None on mine). Even then it's still asymptomatic for most. Try smoking heavy too, like a lot of the people who now have it did, and ignore the 1st warning signs like sore lungs. I see workers exposing themselves needlessly all the time to spite the rules and what is know. Some of those will get nailed, some won't.A couple light exposures will do nothing unless you're already screwed. Been there industrially, done it, in the thick of it, have you?

Respirators are a distraction (accidents) require proper fitting and maintenance to be effective. They use up a lot of your energy, they are not fun to use to spite what some morons perceive as fashionable. Most places if it's that dusty you won't be there long unless you enjoy the playing in flour look.

Better be more concerned with any cams you have, fine dust isn't good for them at all.

You'll be all safe and protected with your properly fitted respirator on your clean shaven face happily sploring along. Until you fall (pick a number) stories to your death because the respirator was blocking your peripheral vision and you didn't see the hole in the floor.

Be more worried about avoiding falls, and protecting your eyes; something few think of until it's too late.

How many years have you worked with it? I have over ten years. Eat it everyday for a couple of years, decades, yeah, you'll probably get some spots on your lungs (None on mine). Even then it's still asymptomatic for most. Try smoking heavy too, like a lot of the people who now have it did, and ignore the 1st warning signs like sore lungs. I see workers exposing themselves needlessly all the time to spite the rules and what is know. Some of those will get nailed, some won't.A couple light exposures will do nothing unless you're already screwed. Been there industrially, done it, in the thick of it, have you?

Respirators are a distraction (accidents) require proper fitting and maintenance to be effective. They use up a lot of your energy, they are not fun to use to spite what some morons perceive as fashionable. Most places if it's that dusty you won't be there long unless you enjoy the playing in flour look.

Better be more concerned with any cams you have, fine dust isn't good for them at all.

You'll be all safe and protected with your properly fitted respirator on your clean shaven face happily sploring along. Until you fall (pick a number) stories to your death because the respirator was blocking your peripheral vision and you didn't see the hole in the floor.

Be more worried about avoiding falls, and protecting your eyes; something few think of until it's too late.

Stay asleep. If you spend your whole life waiting for the storm, you'll never enjoy the sunshine. -Morris West

So, the levels of airborne silica that you are exposed to at your workplace are regulated by OSHA, right? This could vary greatly from the amount in places like SM mentioned.

edit for spelling

You really think OSHA goes out in the field to many frac sites, blasting sites, even factories, and takes samples?They don't. No matter how fine, you can see it.

Very fine silica dust is present almost daily in the air in W TX. Even worse during dust storms. The lungs can and do clean themselves, up to a point.You have to eat a lot of this to get messed up. If you have a preexisting, worry, otherwise don't hang around eating dust regardless of the particle size.

This is bullshit. I have worked in the glass and ceramic manufacturing industries for over a decade and I know that often times when 400 mesh or smaller silica becomes airborne, you CANT see it, especially in daylight. As to the part about respirators being a distraction--Ill take that distraction and make sure I actually look where I'm stepping, I mean come on--are seat belts a distraction too because they make it harder to turn to check your blindspot? They may e a distraction, but their benefit (when used properly) far outweighs the inconvenience of having to adjust to whatever slight impedance they present to your field of vision. Ultimately people can do what they want, but I think that minimizing the potential effects of repeated exposure to silica is irresponsible--give people the facts about it and let them decide

This is bullshit. I have worked in the glass and ceramic manufacturing industries for over a decade and I know that often times when 400 mesh or smaller silica becomes airborne, you CANT see it, especially in daylight. As to the part about respirators being a distraction--Ill take that distraction and make sure I actually look where I'm stepping, I mean come on--are seat belts a distraction too because they make it harder to turn to check your blindspot? They may e a distraction, but their benefit (when used properly) far outweighs the inconvenience of having to adjust to whatever slight impedance they present to your field of vision. Ultimately people can do what they want, but I think that minimizing the potential effects of repeated exposure to silica is irresponsible--give people the facts about it and let them decide

Sunlight, laser pointer. This isn't a gas, and I was afraid I would have to point this out. You'd have a fit in TX dust storm.

Exploring IS NOT an industrial occupation and exposure is limited at best.The GREATEST hazards an explorer faces are falls, eye injuries, and exposures to caustics.

I have a respirator, and particles filters, but it's for work not play time. Your security measures were inadequate.How unfortunate for you.

MrSivalis, I think you've made your point that we all need to start carrying laser pointers, not worry that cave exploring/digging every other night is going to cause us lung damage, and that you're insistent that falling is more of a threat than silica, despite that not being the point of this discussion.

Congrats, you win the internet. If you want to protect the locations you love to explore, don't talk about them online in public! If you want to make exploring friends, send people private messages! Meet up in real life! Get off the internet!Don't try to have a UER e-penis! You won't impress anyone! This especially means you, Minneapolis MN newbies!

MrSivalls how many sand mines have you been in? We go in sand mines, sandstone caves, and sandstone tunnels daily. We spend countless hours hand tool digging into new caverns and systems. We are usually so far deep into a system that fresh air is just non-existent. There is no way our exposure can be compared to anything that happens above ground, I'm sorry but there is just no way. Also you are underestimating the amount of time some of us put in down in the sand. For some of us this goes way beyond a hobby, it's a lifestyle, it's something we do every single day. www.flickr.com/5alive