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I am sorry that I said that animals such as dogs have no discernment. I was wrong...when I was a child, I had neighbours who neglected their dogs and finally one of the dogs who responded to my mother's caring nature got hit by a car and came and died in my mother's garden. Even animals know who truly appreciate their existence.God is the last thing you would expect to exist.Analytical thinking never allows one to surrender to a hug. Which is a pretty good way to get the engines of the mind flowing. And the heart. One step at a time.

Bravo, Kreb. I am myself one of the most logic-oriented people I know, AND I am hugely emotional as well. Like you, I think, my emotions don't exclude logic, any more than my logic excludes emotions.

There was an old, Original Star Trek episode a LONG while back, where they had Spock have to deal with trying to lead a small band of emotional humans dealing with hostile and apparently emotional aliens (who were never seen, so save the cost of special effects). They showed Spock as failing to recognize throughout the entire episode, that to BE logical, he had to INCLUDE the reality of emotion in his equations. I was sorry they failed to get THAT point across, but they came close enough for me to use the thing as an explanatory example.

Krebby..you are more of poetic scientist than you are cerebral and lost in the fog of fact. Is there nothing more spectacular than the harvest moon?Actually Spock in his very designed self reinforced the majesty and strength of feeling at its best.Reading Vincent Bugliosi's "Divinity of Doubt" (The God Question) M0re stark fact as to why the concept of God and etc. is just plain silly. lol. I love a good debate.

In fact knowing the facts of optical illusions is no barrier to experiencing the very fact of a harvest moon in an especially splendid illusion on the prairies. Hey, Krebby what you know and how you react are two separate realities. But, even knowing what you know..would you not just pause for a silent moment in the company of a harvest moon?

I haven't heard that the Harvest Moon necessarily has anything to do with the way the moon can seem to be Super-Sized at times. Maybe just where I grew up.

Anyway, for myself, I have STOPPED thinking I see a giant moon, ever since I realized that it was an optical illusion. In my case, I realized further that I NEVER actually saw a Giant moon at all, rather I saw the moon when it was low enough on the horizon for me to see it right next to a much closer object. This resulted in what movie special effects people refer to as "forced perspective," which they used to use all the time (and still do occasionally) in order to film two people appearing to interact, with one of them being gigantic relative to the other.

Basically, if two items are both IN FOCUS, but one is much closer to you than the other, then you will deduce subconsciously that the two are side by side, and that the one closest to you is much larger than you would normally think it is, relative to the distant object.

Once I understood forced perspective, and looked for it in films, then I stopped mistaking the moon on the horizon as being larger than it usually seemed to be. Essentially, I was looking more closely, and seeing the SAME size moon I always did, but consciously realizing that I WAS seeing a close and a distant object, side by side.

Really. Well, if people still see it from space (I'd like to see some direct stories about this), then there's no explanation for why I DON'T see it any more, other than delusion on my part, or on theirs.

I liked it better, when I thought it was due to a lensing effect of the atmosphere.

Thank you for the very hard and technical work re: full moons and their sizes. Now, I know why I see what I see but it doesn't matter...(intuitively we all know) There is nothing more paralyzingly beautiful than a whiz bang harvest moon in any sky at any angle, at any position, at any moment.

After all is said and done...what is the difference between the God of the various religions Alan mentioned? Is this God thing a particular, specific personal sentiment towards women, justice, economics, politics, etc, etc. ??? My idea of God is more than the sum of all our words, deeds and possible permutations. I appreciate Zen Buddhism. The airy reach of detachment and surrender. But...with a very real connection to those you have loved with great difficulty and with an understanding that to detach is harder than losing a loved one. A never equals B. Ever.

A never equals B. Ever. Because you do not package life in similar or different. You live and forget the easy excuse of secure categorization. Where one is better off is in a consciousness of unfolding and folding and unfolding...etc. With due respect to the work already done.

realising the value of such priceless imagery have made them available for free freethough clearer original prints are offered from au$500-$3000 at the top end whichmost would think reasonable as 'one off ' made to order canvas from au$50k-$1.3milthough the prints offered for free free are a little fuzzy, 75% of people who view themget the pictureplease be carefull with any fraudulant accusations

The only thing not fraudulent about your two posts on this page is that they appear to be authentic spam.

Alan...I saw my dead sister's image in a cloud. Convince me otherwise. If there is nothing but Science then there is nothing to do but invent a way to sculpt reality into a form of spirituality. AND. If you do not, please do NOT brush your take on the matter with horribly bare and enigmatic words and phrases that amount to your skill with nothing other than pause and clearance of your lack of ...whatever. lol.Here...you died.I flew.to bury you.up herein a placeabovei sawyour spirit leave.today.I again, saw youshaking a fingerat my lackof meaning.

The last time I visited Wally Worldmy already tired eyesdied! In the blaze of shopper's light.I honestly stumbled in a dazevisited by a dizzy imbalancewhat the hell was the aisle?I saved 30 cents!!!!!In a righteous indignationI marched my dizzy selfout the friggen doorsand into the breath of fresh airSwearing, swearing, swearing.Never again.I will never go back..for at least...another year.(umble, mumble, umble)them sodden summer sandals.were cheaplasted.still going.

If I ever vote again.it will certainly (be) after I make...my own friggen sandals.

And until then I had been prostrate on my face trembling and the Lord called me with his own mouth and said to me "come hither Enoch and hear my word", and one of the holy ones came to me and waked me and he made me rise up and approached the door and I bowed my face downwards. God said" fear not Enoch thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness approach hither and hear my voice". .........

Did anyone know that parking meters originated in Oklahoma back in the thirties ? And that Albert Einstein tried to construct a refrigerator that did not kill people with its inner workings? (improved) And that the walkie talkie was invented by somebody who did it out of necessity? And the grandest invention of all. ...the photocopier...the original workings HAVE never been altered...ever. Friggen fantastic what has been invented and benefitted mankind. Thanks to Discovery and its marathon of inventors today. And all of these inventions were before the 1940's ...Sorry I missed the rest. also..the original electric guitar.the genesis of the lie detector.the beginning of sound in movies.Marvelous.

^^^No idea what language that is, but he appears to be speaking in tongues. Your people are calling you to join them in the fight against reason.http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-scranton/westboro-baptist-church-to-attend-reason-rally-with-special-message-for-atheists

here is an interesting thought I heard we create nothing but concepts.. everything material we make out of that which has already been created, and is in existence for use \we just make it from the conceptual recipe we create... Does this make sense to anyone? the ingredients are all here and we just create a recipe to mix and match them...to make something from them....WE Create nothing but thoughts or concepts:ideas we garner from the tangible and evidential products of our universe.

I really like the way Neil puts it.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/most-astounding-fact-universe-neil-degrasse-tyson_n_1339031.html

I like it too. There is so much romance in the world, the universe. How one cannot be awed by it is amazing. I thought often, so what if there isn't a life afterward. It is an honor to know what I've been sharing in, beyond the connectivity to abiotic life. To know I'll decompose into a little brown pile of detritus and then blow away in the wind. I'll soar again.

I could go on, but it only gets cornier.

I also like the background song, apropos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0ordd2nOI Cinematic Orchestra, 'To Build a Home'

''I like it too. There is so much romance in the world, the universe. How one cannot be awed by it is amazing. I thought often, so what if there isn't a life afterward. It is an honor to know what I've been sharing in, beyond the connectivity to abiotic life. To know I'll decompose into a little brown pile of detritus and then blow away in the wind. I'll soar again.''

''I like it too. There is so much romance in the world, the universe. How one cannot be awed by it is amazing. I thought often, so what if there isn't a life afterward. It is an honor to know what I've been sharing in, beyond the connectivity to abiotic life. To know I'll decompose into a little brown pile of detritus and then blow away in the wind. I'll soar again.''

but what or whom to honor?

it would be nice to be conscious when we soar.

-------------------------------------------------------------"but who or whom to honor?"

Did you watch the video? My post was a response to it. The keywords would be 'it is an honor to know'. I'm feeling the honor.

From what I know of some interpretations of the the Christian god, through the Bible NT, there was enough scripture to indicate that god did not want to be put into a box. That he was unfathomable and therefore, indefinable.

Combine that, and the methodological requirement that science has for the absence of a definition of god, for me then, there's an overwhelming reason not to have a what or whom to honor. There's enough glory in the natural to bask in. Perhaps this is what it's all about.

If someone wants to have a 'who' or a 'what', that's for them to define.