Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.

How is this different from the insurance provider making those same decisions?

Thunderpipes:Weird, Obama stated over and over this is not a tax. Now he argues it is.

At least they shot down the forced Medicaid expansion. That will throw a big wrench into his plans. 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes. Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you. Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you. Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Now liberals, if we get a Republican advantage, how about we implement a tax on the unemployed? No job? Fine, pay a tax. I know you think you just won, but you just screwed everyone equally with another erosion of individual rights.

That's kind of a retarded argument. People who don't have insurance are trying to get free care when they get sick at the expense of the rest of us. Trying to claim that there is some sort of principle involved is silly.

MediaAreAllHacks:I'm still always shocked by how ridiculously stupid and uninformed most Americans are about their own health care.

A question: Would you tell the hospital to turn away someone dying because they couldn't pay?

If you answered yes, you're a sociopath. Seek help.

If you answered no, you believe in socialized medicine. Now we're just talking degrees of it. The American government spends more on health care than any other country in the world (per capita). Then of course you all have to pay for health insurance too. So fully socialized medicine would allow lowering taxes.

This.There's a reason most hospitals have religious names, they were started out of a need to tend to the sick, not as a way to be profitable.

Kuroshin:WombatControl: 3.) Obama is now responsible for a major middle-class tax increase. After saying that he wouldn't raise taxes. Repeatedly. This will be in every Romney attack ad through this election season. It should be in them now.

From now on, it's not "ObamaCare." It's the "Obama Health Care Tax". Let's have the President own his massive tax hike right through to November.

My taxes have not been affected. There has been no tax increase.

There has been a new, punitive tax created, but no tax increases for anybody.

No, all you've done is created a tax on people who can't afford to have health insurance. Those same people won't be covered under Medicaid because the forced expansion of that program was struck down.

Now they still won't have any form of heath coverage but will be taxed because they don't have any form of health coverage.

Good luck with that in November.

/Conservative who opposes Obamacare, but the ruling upholding the tax was correct.

Thunderpipes:TwistedFark: bdub77: WombatControl: Legally, this was a piss-poor decision. Yes, the Commerce Clause end of things was upheld, but the SCOTUS basically saved Congress by doing something that Congress never intended to do. That's judicial activism. If Congress had intended the mandate to be a tax, they could have done so directly. SCOTUS inferred that's what they did, which is not the proper role of a judge.

Politically, anyone who wants to argue this is good for Obama is kidding themselves. This is the worst outcome for Obama. (The best being the bill being upheld under the Commerce Clause, the second best being the bill being totally struck down.) Why is this the worst outcome?

1.) This just energized the living fark out of the GOP base. It was ObamaCare that motivated the Tea Party in 2010. Now it's going to do the same in 2012.

2.) It just took away their "RomneyCare" attacks. (Yes, the whole "RomneyCare" bit was incoherent to begin with, but it's less coherent now.)

3.) Obama is now responsible for a major middle-class tax increase. After saying that he wouldn't raise taxes. Repeatedly. This will be in every Romney attack ad through this election season. It should be in them now.

From now on, it's not "ObamaCare." It's the "Obama Health Care Tax". Let's have the President own his massive tax hike right through to November.

Doesn't matter. Americans got health care. This is a win for the American people, not just Obama. Obama will now go down as the first president who got Americans health care. His legacy in that regard, not to mention countless other things he's done as president, will solidify him as one of the greats.

And yes I expect him to fully whip Romney's ass in November.

I'm not much of a political fan boy, but I have to agree in regards to Obama's legacy. He's managed to accomplish quite a bit in this term - and a fair bit more than I can recall any of the last 4 President's doing.

1) Can we finally put to rest the notion that the Supreme Court was rigged for Republican initiatives? It's tiresome, and in reality the butthurt that usually comes from SCOTUS decisions is because it's your particular ox that's being gored, not because they're ideologically fixed and conspiring to fark Democratic initiatives.

2) The Congress could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by simply calling it what it is, a tax. It was always a tax, and calling it something else was always a big charade. We need to get over this tax-averse attitude we have in this country if we wish to maintain any semblance of the standard of living we currently have. We can't continue to live off of other peoples' largesse for much longer.

3) Congratulations to Barack Obama on his reelection. This essentially sealed the deal, the rest is just pro forma screaming.

Seems like the left got the result they wanted (law and mandate upheld), while the right got the reasoning they wanted (Congress doesn't get a blank check to pass laws under the commerce/necessary and proper clauses, and can't force states to comply with a federal regulation by threatening existing federal funding.)

I'm not happy that Roberts fell for a bait-and-switch on the tax argument, but aside from that, not much to criticize. And just because a law is Constitutional doesn't mean it's a good idea.

CommieTaoist:Cons: But all those uninsured are driving up healthcare costs and straining our hospitals!Libs: Fine, everyone must have insurance.Cons: BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR!Libs: What are you talking about? Insurance is primarily bought from private corporations, you guys should have wrote this stuff.Cons: La-la-la, we can't hear you, la-la-la.Libs: Come on, grow up.Cons: Wait, we know, this is a new tax!!!Libs: It's not a tax on the rich, you should be happy. Plus there is no "tax" or fine if you have health insurance, something that is good for everyone.Cons: Durr, socialism! Impeach Roberts!

I've heard of moving goal posts, but on some things I envision them mounted to the back of a car going round and round a NASCAR oval.

Oh lord, I would love love LOVE to see the Republicans impeach Roberts. Talk about not thinking their cunning plan all the way through.

They've already primaried out a number of their Reps for compromising and working with "the other side." Many of those Reps are in districts that have centrist populations, which won't take kindly to a teabagger lunatic when November rolls around. The GOP/teabagger party isn't exactly known for thinking long term on much of anything.

optimistic_cynic:How is this different from the insurance provider making those same decisions?

The decision isn't based on the profit motive, but since it's a conservative talking about it, that's somehow a worse thing. Because health care only works when people get bonuses from letting you die.

This is the same court that upheld Chicago v. McDonald. I am certain that those who approved of the former ruling will approve of this ruling and that whose who believed the former ruling to lack any merit will disapprove of this ruling.

MurphyMurphy:Benjimin_Dover: His campaign promise that he would not raise taxes on anybody earning over (what was it?) $250,000 has now just been verified by SCOTUS as a lie. He just raised taxes on the poorest of the poor. I wonder if Roberts intentionally gave the Repubes a campaign issue to hammer on Obama with.

awww did the politician do something seemingly deceptive to advance his agenda?

That stinks. And the agenda was helping ppl to boot! I mean, lying to start wars that kill hundreds of thousands of people, sure, we all understand that. But lying to make people more healthY? DISGUSTING.

Lying stinking fartbama.

Now go vote for Rmoney who will not lie to you.

They all lie, doosh. That has been my point all along. Nice try. Try reading. It helps.

Thunderpipes:No. By accepting the cash now, states make themselves responsible for more of the costs later on. Smart states will absolutely refuse this. It does not benefit them at all to participate. It will further hurt state budgets to expand. Christ, how dumb are liberals, really?

Cue the paranoia. ZOMG, Congress is giving me a tax break for havign a child, now I have an irresistable urge to knock up every fertile woman in sight!

Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Secret ballots, how do they work?

Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you.

As opposed to placing a tax on imported cars, like some kind of tariff?

Bonus: good luck defining "American car": A Chrysler built in Canada? A Honda built in Ohio?

Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Taxes are on transactions, not ideas. You could start taxing churches, perhaps, but I'm not seeing how this ruling makes that possible where it wasn't before.

I love the simple-minded slippery slope arguments. "The gubmint is telling us we gotta have seat belts in our cars? Next thing you know they'll be telling us what we can drive. The gubmint is mandating background checks for gun purchases? Its the first step in takin' away all our guns, the ones the Constitution guarantees us!"

News flash: Before this ruling, the government had the right to tax you, and now they still do.

He has just been declared a liar to the American people, in that the mandate "wasn't a tax", and that he "wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class".Well folks, the middle class just got the largest "tax" increase in history, and Obama should earn PolitiFacts PANTS ON FIRE rating.

Either way this was going to get ruled, it was going to galvanize the ruling's opposition. The SCOTUS may very well have just handed Romney a victory in November.

If someone can't afford to stay competitive, why do they deserve to compete?

If someone can't afford to keep working, why do they deserve to work?

If someone can't afford to stay healthy, why do they deserve health?

If someone can't afford to stay alive, why do they deserve to live?

You get what you pay for. If you can't afford to pay, well... I suppose it's polite to pretend that it was nice knowing you, but you aren't much use anymore, are you?

And if you disagree with all of the above statements, great! Politics takes money. If someone can't afford a lobbyist or a campaign, why do they deserve to have an opinion?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.

How is this different from the insurance provider making those same decisions?

to a true believer in the GOP, it's an HONOR to be f*cked over by a corporation. you pray for that shiat to happen 'cause it means you just got to participate in the Free Market.

granted, that's rather insane and somewhat stupid...but that's what the GOP really believes.

/But seriously. I am so effing shocked right now. That this conservative court would uphold this, and that ROBERTS would be the swing vote.....just no words....

Yeah, I'm rather floored too. I really expected them to shiatcan the thing.

As I said in the other thread, though...

This is not a victory for liberals. This is a victory for Obama, the health insurance industry and their lobbyists.

I would disagree. Even though it is not single-payer it has extended coverage to millions and gotten rid of that bullshiat pre-existing condition nonsense. That, in and of itself, is a victory for everyone.

-Democrats raise taxes to pay for healthcare of American citizens? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

(me? I'm against both parties. I just hate Teabaggers.)

You got that wrong:

-Democrats raise taxes to pay for healthcare of American citizens? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

-Republicans lower taxes and try to fight two foreign wars off the books to try to hide the actual costs of those wars, and then try to cut social programs after the fact to cut down on the mountains of debt those wars caused -- WE'RE OKAY WITH THIS!

Too bad SCOTUS decisions don't work that way. And the Senate doesn't have the votes to get repeal accomplished.

No, not even if the Democrats lose some seats this fall. Won't happen. The Democrats will filibuster a repeal vote into the grave.

The worst thing about this for Democrats is that the Medicaid expansion was overturned. Now there is a gap where the poor and unemployed whom don't qualify for Medicaid or Medicare don't have viable options other than COBRA (If they still qualify and it's expensive) or buying private insurance (Again, very expensive).

This is all just b*llshiat ! Fix health care ? Don't charge me $20 for 2 Tylenol when I am in the possible, and give me a bill for $12,000.00 for an over night stay. Fix that, the farking price gouging!!!

America is gone.The most horrendous monster of a law that the world has ever seen has now been cemented into place.There may still be a nation named America but we can now kiss goodbye to prosperity as we used to know it.Minimum 16% extra tax, and that's just for starters.If only "the poor" would be asked to pay their fair share, but I suspect that will never happen.Everybody pays for everyone else = "the rich" (anybody who pays taxes) pays for everyone who don't.In order to "save" 30 million uninsured (allegedly) the other 280 million are now to be strangled, slowly.

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Look on the bright side.

At least we can now run ads until the election saying Obama and the Democrats have imposed the largest tax increase in American history.

They can now run ads of death panels.

They can now run ads of legislation that will increase premiums.

They can now Throw Grandma off the cliff and blame the Democrats.

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We are all now officially slaves owned by and for the U.S. Federal Government.

Anyone who has health care with an employer just lost it today. Your employer will pay the fine and you will be dumped into the health care pool. Your salary will go up little to none, but your taxes will go up big time to pay for all the deadbeats. The hard working poeple just lost big time! I just hope the unions also are subject to be dumped in the pool with the rest of us!

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I have never been more ashamed of my country. Today my country is dead to me.

This is why elections count. To all the imbeciles who stayed at home and allowed this socialist would be dictator to become president; how do you like the new taxes that are being crammed down your throat?

Nobody knows how hard they are being hammered by this outrage. We have been effectively raped by our own government.

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The only problem that Liberals have with the history of chattel slavery in the America is that the slaves were privately owned.

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The law was not written or constructed with the mandate as a tax. If the mandate is a tax then the law should have to be rewritten and sent back through the process. Written as a mandate the law is now invalid. Try to get it through as a tax.

If not, then slaves have risen up throughout history. It might be time for civil disobedience and whatever else needed to remove the entire population of politicians from their perches. Enough of this crap. If representatives no longer represent us then let them be removed.

This next one nearly killed me:

It's time to start viewing the federal government with hostility.

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This is fascism. Welcome to the Fourth Reich.

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The Confederate States of America doesn't look so bad now, does it?

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"This is why elections count. To all the imbeciles who stayed at home and allowed this socialist would be dictator to become president; how do you like the new taxes that are being crammed down your throat?They are as culpable as the blithering morons who pulled the lever to elect this dictator."

How about imbeciles who supported the architect of Obamneycare as the GOP nominee? They should be happy today. Their guy's ideas won.

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This is going to bring about a revolution. Got your guns ready?

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Roberts should say it like it is: congress passed the law, not me. Be mad at congress, not the court.BULLshiat....he was a Stealth Marxist all along

IMPEACH ROBERTS

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If the Constitution was not a dead letter before today, it is now. There are no longer any constraints whatsoever on the power of the government as against the individual, nor does it recognize any.

We are indeed, for all intents and purposes, slaves of our government, to dispose of as they see fit.

And I for one will act as any slave would; they will only get the bare minimum out of me. It's off to Galt's Gulch.

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In shock. Who knew Roberts was a lib..and a coward.

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No only disgusting, but this ensures Obama will win in November....Roomey will win now

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"...but this ensures Obama will win in November...."

On the contrary, this has awakened a sleeping giant. Now, anyone who does not get out and vote against Obama is officially an enemy of the United States.

I will not vote ever again for the GOP rather I will vote for the most liberal/socialists/leftists etc candidate from now on.Voting any other way will not matter as it will be a waste of time and a vote.....

Above post is totally emotional reaction....

This next one makes sense since their entire economic policy is based on the dreams of a 13-year old...

A 4th grader can see that this is not Constitutional.

If the government can do this, what the F can't it do to us?

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When and Where is the first anti-slavery rally?

OBAMACARE = SLAVERY

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If the GOP is smart...I see a flaw in your statement.Ed: so do I

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RIP America.

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Could John Roberts have been "blackmailed"? It may not be as farfetched as it sounds!I think my husband and I are going to sell our home and his business. We are going to buy a camper and become gypsies! I am NOT giving one more damn dime to any of these marxists!

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We now have to demand of any elected Representative and Senator that they will not get our vote unless they promise to repeal this monstrosity...or our freedom is lost forever.

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Sorry to say, if you think this is ever going away, you're tilting at windmills. There is no way this is ever being repealed.

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"prepare yourselves.."

My fellow American, we have been preparing for a civil revolution since 2008!

The freeloaders will not give up theirs without a serious fight and God willing, the good American people will give them a fight they won't soon forget. the fighting won't end until the American people take back their Constitutional government.

The adverse decision from SCOTUS is exactly what our forefathers feared in creating another government when they wrote the Constitution in the first place. Their fears have come true, unfortunately, the American people will have to again pick up arms to repel another oppressive tyrannical government.

Prepared, you bet your a$$!!!!

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So, the federal government CAN mandate commerce, they simply need to represent it is a negative tax: Do this or else get taxed. So much for the US Constitution.

Since the federal government refuses to obey the constitution we should too! REVOLT!!!

To everyone out there blasting this decision especially you tea party people, consider how much money your super PACs will soak in off of this. Karl Rove will be rolling in unlimited contributions from billionaires to set up the political system to do their bidding. There, now don't you feel better? Rail against socialism and you will get what they actually have in Russia now, an oligarchy. You should be praising Justice Roberts, he gave you just what you wanted, a government of the rich, by the rich and for the rich. Awesome!