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Topic: I'm from the gov. and I'm here to help you. (Read 9082 times)

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

i saw that. wish there were another source for the story though. i find this site often leans toward hysterics rather than verifiable facts. maybe someone can find another source for this....

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Kathy.......... I did a quick search....... not much......... lazy and I've only had a few sips of coffee. I didn't find anything on the Illinois beek, mind you, it was a very quick google search. I did find this article though.......

There's a discussion of this issue on that other bee forum. I don't know if it's ok to post a link here. If you go to the forum and search for "Terrence Ingram" you should be able to find the ongoing discussion.

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may remember,involve me and I'll understand" Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. KennedyFranklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Yeah, this is a story that's as much about Monsanto causing CCD (which I've personally believed for years) as it is about yet another government entity reaching WELL past its limits with absolutely nobody stopping it.

The scenario was this:

1. Terry Ingram loses all of his hives, and suspects RoundUp to be the culprit.2. He spends 15 years studying a small group of hives that he maintains just for this purpose (he does not sell the honey of his own hives).3. He contacts the Illinois Department of Agriculture to let them know about his findings.4. Just over a year later, the DoA performs a series of "stealth-inspections" of his hives, without his knowledge, in the middle of winter.5. The DoA claims that his hives have foulbrood.6. The DoA returns when he's not home, confiscates his hives, and burns them.7. The DoA fines him $500 for their trouble.8. In the hearing, which takes place 3 weeks after the evidence was burned, it's found that he doesn't have enough evidence to prove he didn't have foulbrood.

Seriously... How is this even allowed? The worst part is that he can't even accuse the DoA of trespassing and theft, because bee keepers in Illinois are required to register with the DoA, and that registration gives the DoA this power: "Department investigators are allowed to enter onto the property of those registered with the Department."

His Claim 11:20 to 12:00 I do not know bees can sterile wood and wax ???

This is only one side of the story being told and I would like to hear the other side to.

And I could say the same thing for mad cow disease

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 02:54:11 PM by Jim 134 »

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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may remember,involve me and I'll understand" Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. KennedyFranklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

His Claim 11:20 to 12:00 I do not know bees can sterile wood and wax ???

This is only one side of the story being told and I would like to hear the other side to.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Of course bees can.

Charlie Mraz years ago had a very well known and documented strain of bees able to clean up AFB placed frames into the hive. Problem was, they were not resistant to mites, and were wiped out along with many other bees years ago.

AFB resistant bees, would be like bees resistant to mites, or bees able to withstand the northern climates. If your part of the bee "industry" you want problems. You need problems. So the industry:

1) Sells the idea to the average beekeeper that bees with low propolis production is a good thing. They did this for years. A good trade off for sticky fingers for those not really thinking about it.

2) You take a northern hardy strain like the Russians and place them in Louisiana to propogate and breed. And the industry as a whole continues to sell Italians although many are finding out that while they are productive and gentle, they do not make the most resistant bee or the best overwintering for the north. Of course if your a commercial guy who will treat for mites, and take all the bees south for winter, then what do you care. Do you think the industry caters to hobbyists anyways?

3) You concentrate not on breeding bees able to deal with problems, like most other breeders from anything like chickens to earthworms, but sell and push the next new treatment on the market. Beekeeping unlike many other animals/insects has concentrated mainly on treating, and not breeding.

The industry has produced unhealthy bees, raised them in the wrong location, and has put little if no effort, (except a few individuals) in breeding resistant bees.

If mites or AFB actually went away, there would be folks losing their jobs, their funding, and their "position" in the bee industry.

For years, breeders looked at globs of propolis inside the hive, and selected those that did not coat the inside of the hives. Does this sound correct to you? knowing that propolis is part of a healthy and sterile colony?

Can you still get Charlie Mraz strain of bees ??? Or the mites wiped them all out ???

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 04:25:27 PM by Jim 134 »

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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may remember,involve me and I'll understand" Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. KennedyFranklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

I have heard of a couple who say they have remaining strains, but they do not market them as AFB resistant bees. The focus on much of what breeding efforts we have is along the lines of mite resistance.

The Minnesota hygienic line was developed as a commercial line to be used in hives that had previous AFB. But to maintain, test, and perpetuate a line such as this, is useless with the bee industry in so many states having automatic burn requirements once any AFB has been found. And if you are a commercial operator, it is just easier to use chemicals. So we use weak genetics, treat all the time, and when it does pop up, AFB is drug out for show as to why we need oversight and inspectors.

I was told years ago, that AFB was mainly due to genetics. That if you had AFB, that treating two times (spring/fall or fall/spring) while requeening with a more hygienic queen, that you have a small chance of ever seeing AFB in that hive again. I took AFB hives about 6 years ago, did that, and to this day have no AFB in those hives.

I also have had AFB in hives and did nothing. Just allowed the bees to build up and it went away on it's own. Why....hard to say. Hygienic bees, bee populations able to stay ahead of the disease, or perhaps something else.

AFB is the darling and justification for inspection programs for many years now. We can breed AFB resistant bees. But instead, we are told to treat, and do little else. So the AFB is perpetuated, while keeping some employed to deal with this claimed nasty disease.

Did you ever wonder how those same beekeepers in some countries deal with AFB. They do have it. But do you hear of the entire industry failing? It's not that they treat. But they are forced to use hygienic bees, employ comb rotation by crude crush and strain comb harvesting. What we have done over the years is use comb for 30-40 year (common in commercial operations till late), use prophylactic treatments, and did little to breed a hygienic line of bees. And look where we are at compared to other beekeepers in other areas. :roll:

Reminds me of the story about the farmer and the Department of Agriculture safety inspector.

After the farmer read over the safety pamphlet the eager young bureaucrat had handed him, he handed it back and told the bureaucrat that some of their safety tips were unnecessary and must be intended only for government employees, not farmers. So, the young bureaucrat asked the farmer for an example of those unnecessary warnings.

The farmer said that the warning about cow pies being slippery was the prime example. When the bureaucrat suggested that it was sound advice, the farmer smiled and told him that only government employees would need a shiny safety pamphlet to warn them not to step in the s**t.

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"Inflation is the one form of taxation that can be imposed without legislation." - Milton Friedman

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

got back wednesday pm. it takes me a couple of days to recover, and get ready to engage again. :-)

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....