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The Following User Says Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:

Re: Counting thread

This is seriously too bad. Hicks, what happened specifically that caused you to think this has outgrown the board?

Part of the reason I enjoy posting here on PD (aside from the great posters on the Pacers section) is hanging out on Market Square with posters like N8R, sweabs, TJ, TA, LA, SiG, etc. and talking, playing the wolf game, and other various time wasters. It upsets me that you feel like that doesn't have a place here anymore.

Isn't part of the reason you founded PD that Rats closed the Random Thoughts thread? How is a random NBA thread different than a random thoughts on life thread? If there were offending posts, why not just delete those posts, give whoever an infraction and perhaps possible banning (which I wouldn't have liked either but it's preferrable to this) and let the counters fix their numbers.

I don't understand why the whole 4 year long thread had to be locked. But I'm more upset that some of my best friends on the board (not to mention half of the TWG players) and you couldn't get along on PD and now I'll have to go somewhere else for that camaraderie. PD isn't going to be the same anymore, and for that I'm disappointed.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pig Nash For This Useful Post:

Re: Counting thread

The long term problem with that thread was it was allowing some folks to think they could do or say things in that thread that aren't allowed on PD, including vulgarity and comments made about other posters. My fault was not putting a stop to that in the beginning. I didn't because I thought they could handle it and I thought it would be best to let them have their fun.

The problem is that after looking the other way for so long, I think it's emboldened some to act out in ways they might not have if I'd been strict in the first place (see dicking around with things like the chat when it was here, the walls on profile pages, the thanks feature, or most recently the thread ratings feature). The final nail in the coffin was using that thread as a place to mock me just because their buddy got a temp. ban.

The counting thread has been discussed off and on before among the admins, and the idea of closing it had come up before. Now was finally the time to put an end to it IMO because now you have a clique that thinks it's their way or the highway, forgetting what board they are on and who is charge of it, and it's my opinion that it's time they took it someplace else.

If they want to stay for other reasons, fine, so long as they don't try to push any buttons, but if they want to keep their thing going the way they want it to be, they need to get their own server space to do it because it's not going to be here anymore.

Now the smart and easy thing for them to do is to get a free or cheap forum of their own and do whatever they want there. I suspect, however, they will instead try to further ruffle feathers here in a passive aggressive and/or childish manner first, thinking that's the better course of action.

It's important to note that the basic intentions of that thread (to simply count and converse) was never the problem, but the mentality some developed that it was okay to do things in there you couldn't normally do on PD (and again, that's partially my fault for not being a hard *** in the beginning) is unacceptable and needs to end.

It's also important to note that this has nothing to do with the Wolf Game or other off topic threads (unless I'm forgetting something).

The notion might be to start it again with the "promise" to "be good" this time, but that's not going to cut it. It needs to move on because it will simply become the same thing all over again eventually if allowed to continue here.

You may think I'm 100% wrong, and that's fine, but don't waste your time arguing with me on it because it will not lead to anything good.

As for Star board and the Random Thoughts, that was deleted completely and with no reason given. I have not done the same here.

As for not just banning certain people, when you start doing that, even with temporary bans, it almost always eventually leads to a permanent one or they just leave, so this way at least there's a chance they can still be involved (if they want to be) in some capacity.

A quick response. . .

. . . since the one with my Q's in it was locked.

Like TJ mentioned, for a few months now I've felt like the driving goals for this forum have shifted away from civility and community. I'm not entirely sure what the new goals would be, but the tone sent from the admins (especially Hicks) has become one of "Don't **** with me" rather than the "Let's try to work this out" of old. I also think Hicks's ability to separate his roles as fan/poster/community member and as admin/moderator have gradually deteriorated. Within the last few months there have been an awful lot of strange incidents where it looked like he was using his powers as admin to settle personal quarrels.

I don't really want to make this a long screed thing, because really it doesn't upset me that much. I have simply lost faith in the idea that the administration of this site was eventually going to return to the more "let's work this out" demeanor. I was riding it out for a while, but it would seem as if the new changes are permanent. I find that kinda disappointing, as while this site will never get as bad as RATS was, and overall it will probably still remain a great site for keeping up with the Pacers w/o having to put up with all the trolling other forums hit you with, the strong sense of community that I sense has been keeping many of us here no longer seems to be important.

Since I'm struggling to describe this, I think I'll simply say that much of what has made me feel alienated here at PD lately can be exemplified by this following statement:

You may think I'm 100% wrong, and that's fine, but don't waste your time arguing with me on it because it will not lead to anything good.

And really it's not like this is that big of a deal. As PD changes, this may in fact be the best way of administrating things now - I've certainly seen many other successful forums that go about things this way. However, it's not what I always valued so highly about PD, and so I think it's maybe time to just admit that things change, and that the kind of forum I like engaging w/ and the kind of forum PD is becoming no longer matches up.

I see now that TJ's thread was deleted. This is the section of the forum for questions/comments/complaints, no? I thought TJ's post was a heartfelt and civil complaint about the direction of this forum - it's unfortunate that it was deleted.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that it's been a great six years here, and that many of the friendships made here over our years of conversation will be ones I'll always remember and carry with me. So long, all! Stay healthy and live well.

Re: A quick response. . .

I see now that TJ's thread was deleted. This is the section of the forum for questions/comments/complaints, no? I thought TJ's post was a heartfelt and civil complaint about the direction of this forum - it's unfortunate that it was deleted.

A general public message to remind everyone that a private message would be much more appropriate if you want something constructive to happen.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Note: I'm not promising that any decision will change, but it certainly isn't going to change today and it isn't going to change because of a series of public complaints alternated with public good-bye posts.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Counting thread

True, both sides are ridiculous. I think many people don't want to use PMs for this because they are afraid of it being swept under the rug.

I don't have a dog in the fight, as I wasn't an avid contributor to TCT, but I will still say it's like taking something away from the class instead of punishing the specific individuals. Kindergarten-like.

Re: Counting thread

True, both sides are ridiculous. I think many people don't want to use PMs for this because they are afraid of it being swept under the rug.

I'd say you're onto something there.

I'm not a TCT person so I have no idea what went on. The only thing I can add to any of this is to agree with what you just said (basically it's about people having their day in the court of public opinion) and mention this part is the "Feedback" section of the forum so it isn't totally out of place to have this discussion here.

...IMHO....

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."