Can you be more specific - it's ok to call out teams that you believe to be ranked incorrectly because that will spark a discussion - what do you think the rankings should look like. Personally, to have Cardinal Spellmen (and other undefeated D3 teams) ranked with Weymouth/Brockton and other big D1 teams is silly - if they actually played eachother it would be a joke! Boston City League teams should try to venture out and play the D1 teams that surround them so they get a feel for the real competition and be prepared for tournament time ie - Brighton - they need to stop complaining about not being ranked and play someone that is in the top 20 to prove how good they are! In Response to Re: Top 25 Boy's Soccer :Posted by justwatchin

In D-3 South, Dover Sherborn is the clear favorite, followed by Cardinal Spellman. Cohasset, Westport and Nantucket are darkhorses. If any team might knock off D-S, it could be Nantucket. In D-3 North, Georgetown could be the favorite along with Rockport and Lynnfield not too far behind. I don't think Weston has the weapons to compete with any of the D-3 Cape Ann teams.Posted by AlexFilides

Nantucket lost to Dover Sherborn 1-0 in double OT last year in the D3 South playoffs and arguably gave DS their toughest game throughout, with DS going on to win the D3 State title. Nantucket lost to Cardinal Spellman 4-3 last year in the regular season with the ref giving a very questionable PK to CS with less than 2 minutes in the game - it was later learned the ref was a CS soccer alumni and played under same CS coach. Nantucket is currently 12-0 (granted - not a tough schedule) and maybe as good or better than last year - should be interesting come playoffs in D3 South again this year.

In Response to Re: Top 25 Boy's Soccer : Nantucket lost to Dover Sherborn 1-0 in double OT last year in the D3 South playoffs and arguably gave DS their toughest game throughout, with DS going on to win the D3 State title. Nantucket lost to Cardinal Spellman 4-3 last year in the regular season with the ref giving a very questionable PK to CS with less than 2 minutes in the game - it was later learned the ref was a CS soccer alumni and played under same CS coach. Nantucket is currently 12-0 (granted - not a tough schedule) and maybe as good or better than last year - should be interesting come playoffs in D3 South again this year. Posted by ackdad

What gives with the Globe's latest boys' soccer ranking? Their own listing of records in league play shows:Walpole 7-1-2Weymouth 7-2-1Framingham 7-2-1Wellesley 7-3-0Needham 6-2-2Newton North 4-3-3Brookline 4-4-2

In Response to Re: Top 25 Boy's Soccer : This is incorrect - in fact, off island refs arrive for all regular season games as well.Posted by ackdad

No, this actually is correct, at least for tournament games. The ref of the DS vs Nantucket game last year knew all the kids on Nantucket by name, did not take the last ferry for the day off the island, and called a questionable game at best. A conversation with the head emass highschool ref reveiled that it's near impossible to find refs willing to make the trek to the island (particularly in November) and that they simply couldn't afford to ferry refs to and from all the time. That being said, Nantucket had a very skilled and well coached side and I look forward to seeing them make another run in the tournament again.

In Response to Re: Top 25 Boy's Soccer : No, this actually is correct, at least for tournament games. The ref of the DS vs Nantucket game last year knew all the kids on Nantucket by name, did not take the last ferry for the day off the island, and called a questionable game at best. A conversation with the head emass highschool ref reveiled that it's near impossible to find refs willing to make the trek to the island (particularly in November) and that they simply couldn't afford to ferry refs to and from all the time. That being said, Nantucket had a very skilled and well coached side and I look forward to seeing them make another run in the tournament again.Posted by TvlSoccer

With all due respect, the statement above is utterly incorrect, which I just re-confirmed, with both the coach and the athletic director, as I knew myself. The MIAA director assigns all the refs, and the Dover Sherborn - Nantucket tournament game last Nov. was NOT refereed by an Island ref. In fact, there are NO Island refs sanctioned by MIAA, for varsity soccer games and they all arrive from off island, parts unknown, on assignment from MIAA on a rotational basis, for all regular season and tournament games. Any suggestion otherwise is categorically false.

Yes, Nantucket is very skilled and looks forward to post season play again this year. DS was a very impressive, disciplined team and there is no suggestion that the refs played any part in their victory, albeit a close game (1-0 OT), but they earned that win fair and square and I fully expect they will go very deep again this year. It is also agreed that the quality of refereeing, at least in D3 South, is in general far below the skill level many top teams and players bring to the field, which is a disservice to all concerned.

It might make sense to start with which leagues have the most Division 1 teams (Bay State 9, Hockomock 7, Merrimack Valley 7), and the teams that are leading those leagues. Then look at really good records from teams that play a higher proportion of their games against Division 2 or 3 teams. Lexington, Concord-Carlisle and Masconomet would be examples of teams that seem over-ranked based on results against the schedule they play.Posted by concussed

I agree i dont understand why there are so many D2 and D3 teams in the top 25 while there are several D1 teams who are talented but play tougher schedules so they dont have great records. I will however say the best teams in the state the last few years have been from D2 (CC, Winchester, Sandwich, Canton) but theres a big dropoff after that. Also being a fan of the Hockomock league im amazed at how theres only one team from the league in the top 25 but there are a few D3 teams. I know that none of the hock teams have amazing records but thats because every game they can lose points. Im not saying these teams should be in the top 10 but defiantly top 25. Once the tournament rolls around the Hock does very good as history shows. Side note you cant back up Dover with results from scrimmages. For Franklin the Dover scrimmage is the first one of the year and they have like 30 kids on the roster and in another they played medways actual roster and beat them 8-0. scrimmages are irrelevant.

2010 Season

Attleboro- very talented team one of the best in the state they could have easily won south sectional if the players just pretened to like one another. Even with the lack of team chemistry they tied Canton twice and tied New Bedford and with some bad luck lost a winnable game to Braintree in ot

North Atteleboro- finished 4th in the large hock. In the tourny the beat Durfree and took New Bedford to the last 5 min before New Bedford put two away.

Canton- Won the hock. Won the D2 South Sectional. Beat Duxbury, Hopkinton Sandwich in the tournament.

Franklin- 3rd in large hock. Tied Duxbury in the regular season while playing down a man for 73 min. In the tournament beat Needham and GNBV in new bedford which I believe to be the toughest place to play in the state. lost to silver lake in last 5 min

Mansfield- 5th in large hock out of 5. In the tourny they beat Natick and nauset before losing to braintree 1-0

King Phillip- due to injuries had an early exit but had a very good regular season also had an all american on the roster

Oliver Ames- beat barnstable and then lost to Weymouth (weymouth scored two in the last 15 OA also missed a early pk.

2009 Tournament

Attleboro- beat needham lost to new bedford in ot

King Phillip- beat braintree, nauset, oliver ames lost to CM in ot

Oliver Ames- beat BR lost to KP

Canton- beat bishop stang, hingham lost to hopkinton

(others made it)

2008 Tournament

Canton- beat sharon, walpole lost to nauset pk

Sharon beat medway lost to canton

(others made it)

2007 tournament

North Atteleboro beat CM, Sandwich lost to Brockton PK

Mansfield beat barnstable lost to marshfield

Canton beat Holliston bishop stang medfield lost to sharon

Sharon beat duxbury,somerset,walpole,canton, CC lost to hampshire in state finals

Somerville dominated the whole game but never got any real quality chances to put it away, Cambridge seemed to be content so sit back and defend with almost everyone behind the ball and then would hit Somerville on the break. Cambridge scored with 5 minutes left on some very bad goalkeeping, then 3 minutes later Somerville tied it up off a free kick which was a questionable call by the referee. All in all in terms of chances it was an equal game, but look for what appears to be a good rest of the season for both of these teams.

In Response to Re: Top 25 Boy's Soccer : I agree i dont understand why there are so many D2 and D3 teams in the top 25 while there are several D1 teams who are talented but play tougher schedules so they dont have great records. I will however say the best teams in the state the last few years have been from D2 (CC, Winchester, Sandwich, Canton) but theres a big dropoff after that. Also being a fan of the Hockomock league im amazed at how theres only one team from the league in the top 25 but there are a few D3 teams. I know that none of the hock teams have amazing records but thats because every game they can lose points. Im not saying these teams should be in the top 10 but defiantly top 25. Once the tournament rolls around the Hock does very good as history shows. Side note you cant back up Dover with results from scrimmages. For Franklin the Dover scrimmage is the first one of the year and they have like 30 kids on the roster and in another they played medways actual roster and beat them 8-0. scrimmages are irrelevant. 2010 Season Attleboro- very talented team one of the best in the state they could have easily won south sectional if the players just pretened to like one another. Even with the lack of team chemistry they tied Canton twice and tied New Bedford and with some bad luck lost a winnable game to Braintree in ot North Atteleboro- finished 4th in the large hock. In the tourny the beat Durfree and took New Bedford to the last 5 min before New Bedford put two away. Canton- Won the hock. Won the D2 South Sectional. Beat Duxbury, Hopkinton Sandwich in the tournament. Franklin- 3rd in large hock. Tied Duxbury in the regular season while playing down a man for 73 min. In the tournament beat Needham and GNBV in new bedford which I believe to be the toughest place to play in the state. lost to silver lake in last 5 min Mansfield- 5th in large hock out of 5. In the tourny they beat Natick and nauset before losing to braintree 1-0 King Phillip- due to injuries had an early exit but had a very good regular season also had an all american on the roster Oliver Ames- beat barnstable and then lost to Weymouth (weymouth scored two in the last 15 OA also missed a early pk. 2009 Tournament Attleboro- beat needham lost to new bedford in ot King Phillip- beat braintree, nauset, oliver ames lost to CM in ot Oliver Ames- beat BR lost to KP Canton- beat bishop stang, hingham lost to hopkinton (others made it) 2008 Tournament Canton- beat sharon, walpole lost to nauset pk Sharon beat medway lost to canton (others made it) 2007 tournament North Atteleboro beat CM, Sandwich lost to Brockton PK Mansfield beat barnstable lost to marshfield Canton beat Holliston bishop stang medfield lost to sharon Sharon beat duxbury,somerset,walpole,canton, CC lost to hampshire in state finals Oliver Ames beat Hingham lost to medfield just some talking points... Im a fan of the home team if you couldnt tellPosted by 575393337008e13f2d088632b4275fed

I agree with everything you said, for the most part. Scrimmages are very irrevelant, espically in August and September. As for the the top 20 or 25, which ever you follow, is a joke, until the final one after the state finals in November. As far as the complaint about the larger schools in the Hock and other D1 divisions goes, it's tough to say that teams should be ranked because of previous tournament runs. Teams that make a run from the bottom of the seedings or in the middle of the seedings usually comes from a bad team at the top of the seedings or a team is just getting hot at the right, like Braintree and Silver Lake last year in D1 South.

In Response to Re: Top 25 Boy's Soccer : I agree with everything you said, for the most part. Scrimmages are very irrevelant, espically in August and September. As for the the top 20 or 25, which ever you follow, is a joke, until the final one after the state finals in November. As far as the complaint about the larger schools in the Hock and other D1 divisions goes, it's tough to say that teams should be ranked because of previous tournament runs. Teams that make a run from the bottom of the seedings or in the middle of the seedings usually comes from a bad team at the top of the seedings or a team is just getting hot at the right, like Braintree and Silver Lake last year in D1 South.Posted by soccer101

Heres the problem, the Bay State League is ridiculous compared to most other leagues. Teams that finish low in the Bay State league and have poor standings routinely make runs deep in the tourney and its not because they get hot at the right time or get a lucky matchup, its because they play the best teams in eastern mass every week. Newton North and Needham have made a habit of making runs from poor seeding and Braintree was finally able to get a crack in the tourney and they made significant noise last year.

Even the top teams in the league are underseeded. Weymouth and Framingham have been getting seeds in the 5-10 range for the past couple years and its because they lose a couple games during the season to really good teams. This causes problems in the tourney when you have Weymouth matchup against a CM in the first round when it should be the sectional final.

I understand that in lacrosse, MIAA has moved away from simplistically seeding based on W-L-T only, and takes into account the strength of teams' schedules as well. Of course there are still debates, but it seems to be accepted as an improvement. What is the practicality of MIAA adopting this same approach for soccer?

I understand that in lacrosse, MIAA has moved away from simplistically seeding based on W-L-T only, and takes into account the strength of teams' schedules as well. Of course there are still debates, but it seems to be accepted as an improvement. What is the practicality of MIAA adopting this same approach for soccer?Posted by concussed

I mentioned this several times in the past. We're going to reward Brighton for playing mostly garbage teams while Newton North has one of the toughest schedules in the state and if they get in will probably get an 18-22 seed. Doesn't seem right to me.

Their first step should be creating a super 8 type tournament. Weed out the best of the best. Then go back to the 22 point plateau for tourney qualification. No reason a .500 team should be in post-season play. With the remaining teams create 4 equal brackets. Enough of 9 teams in the West and 24 teams in the North. Completyly unfair. Really easy to fix too...just take a map with a list of the tourney teams and divide them geographically. Finally, make sure neutral sites are neutral. There are enough turf facilities nowadays so that if a team (A-B, Weymouth, etc..) advances to a neutral site game on their home field the venue should be changed.

So you see, the MIAA can't/won't solve the easy problems. Is it really feasible to ask them to come up with a weighted system of ranking wins and losses based on strength of schedule? Highly highly improbable. (the bulk of the MIAA is run by retired AD's and football coaches that need a few extra years to pad their pension. Not really looking to put in overtime)

Their first step should be creating a super 8 type tournament. Weed out the best of the best. Then go back to the 22 point plateau for tourney qualification. No reason a .500 team should be in post-season play. With the remaining teams create 4 equal brackets. Enough of 9 teams in the West and 24 teams in the North. Completyly unfair. Really easy to fix too...just take a map with a list of the tourney teams and divide them geographically. Finally, make sure neutral sites are neutral. There are enough turf facilities nowadays so that if a team (A-B, Weymouth, etc..) advances to a neutral site game on their home field the venue should be changed. So you see, the MIAA can't/won't solve the easy problems. Is it really feasible to ask them to come up with a weighted system of ranking wins and losses based on strength of schedule? Highly highly improbable. (the bulk of the MIAA is run by retired AD's and football coaches that need a few extra years to pad their pension. Not really looking to put in overtime)Posted by scrapa-

I like all of this except the 22pt plateau. That doesn't solve the problem of having good teams in the Bay State League and Catholic Conference who finish right at 500 who wouldn't even qualify while East Boston goes undefeated every year and then loses in the first rd.

While the 22 pt plateau may be a pipe dream, the 4 equal brackets idea needs to happen. Can you imagine the March Madness hoops tourney wit 4 unequal brackets? Teams in the west play 4-5 games while teams in the east play at least 6? Completely unfair and completely fixable. Why is this not addressed by right thinking minds?

MIAA's seeding system for lacrosse apparently ranks 2 other things besides W-L-T record: 1) wins vs other teams qualifying for the tourney in the division, and 2) a poll of the sport's committee members.Just an example for D1 South: the team that would currently rank 1st by simple W-L-T, Greater New Bedford, may have 0 wins vs teams in the D1 South bracket if Dighton-Rehoboth & New Bedford do not make it (both are on the edge so far).Same for the team that today would be seeded #2 in the current system, Silver Lake. They could have 0 wins vs D1 South tourney teams if Marshfield & Quincy don't qualify (both also on the margin at this point).

The Bay State league is probably the toughest to get a feel for because their are good teams going back and forth beating each other week to week. That being said I'd probably put them slightly ahead of Framingham and just behind Weymouth, with Needham the best of the bunch.