How would you discipline the four Marines in the video?

The men and women who serve in the United States Armed Forces are our children and grandchildren. That’s why it was Middle Lane business last week when a video that went viral showed four Marines urinating on what appeared to be dead Taliban fighters.

No one has been charged in the case, but officials in the U.S. and abroad have called for swift punishment of the four Marines. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said last week that he worried the video could be used by the Taliban to undermine peace talks.

A military criminal investigation and an internal Marine Corps review are under way. The Geneva Conventions forbid the desecration of the dead.

It was also of Middle Lane interest when Rick Perry, who is our governor and also a Republican candidate for president, said today that everybody should lighten up.

Perry went on to accuse the Obama administration of “over-the-top rhetoric” and “disdain for the military” in its condemnation of the video.

Was Perry correct and/or was he just talking trash about Obama? How do you think the four Americans should be disciplined?

All I can say is that Marines are men, not boys, and they are accountable for their actions. I do think that what they did was disgraceful. On the other hand, I am not for any sort of huge, punitive punishment. Maybe what’s happened to them to date has been punishment enough.

73 Responses

It is no question unacceptable, but I would not say it is the worst thing ever done. I think proper punishment should start at the top of who was present. The one with the highest rank (the one in charge) should lose one rank, and the rest should be given a written reprimand in their file, passed over for the next promotion and everyone given some kind of training in where, when and on what to pee on.

Nonjudicial Punishment, also known as Article 15 in Army, “Office Hours” in the Marines and “Captain’s Mast” in the Navy. Punishment is already in place. Why do more unless there is a political motive behind it. The military was never meant to be “Nation Builders,” which is a lost cause in the case of Afghanistan anyway. Declare a war (which our gutless politicians won’t do), give the military an objective to obtain, and then get them out when they have achieved the objective. You find urinating on the corpse of an enemy “disgusting” and I find sending our military to die to make a political statement even more reprehensible. Politicians are “pissing” away our military’s men and women’s lives. Which is more “disgusting?”

I agree with you about politicians playing games with servicemembers’ lives and believe we had no business going into Afghanistan in the first place, but that’s no excuse for what these four Marines did.

Make an example of them. Court-martial them and drum them out. They don’t have to go to prison, but they are a disgrace to the Corps. I would feel humiliated to serve alongside four so-called men with such poor impulse control–and I would feel endangered by their presence as well.

We had no reason for going into Afghanistan? Remember 911? How big a slap in the face or being urinated on do you want? 911 was planned and carried out by Al Kaida, which was based in Afghanistan at the time and given sanctuary there by the Taliban, which refused to give them up. No country ever had more justification for invasion than we had. It was a bigger crime than Pearl Harbor because it was perpetrated against civilians.

Reality is they are in a war zone where people they knew and cared for were killed. They did not urinate on live enemies, they urinated on the dead ones. Is this a standard our military should accept? No, but is this a crime that warrants dishonorable discharge or time in prision? HELL NO. They are in a war zone and the worst they did was urinate on dead enemies. The enemies cut off limbs, torture, and drag the bodies through the streets without recourse. Anyone who hates the US or possibly anyone in government will jump on this just to get the attention, but it’s been overblown to what it really means and screw the leaders of the enemies who say it’s disrespectful. Nope, disrespectful is blowing up 2 buildings with thousands or using kids as suicide bombers. This case is gross and should be addressed but not by the grandstanding politicians or the idiot leaders of the other countries of the world.

The Taliban are largely of Pashtun ethnicity and hail from Afghanistan. There was not a single, solitary Afghani among the terrorists of 9/11. Not. A. Single. One. If you’re going to be all vengeful for 9/11, go attack some Saudis. That’s mainly who attacked us, along with an Egyptian and a handful of Yemenis and one or two others. (Non-Saudis comprised maybe one-third of the group.)

In the United States, desecration of a corpse is a crime. The stakes are even higher with servicemembers in foreign countries, particularly as part of an occupying force. YES, these four so-called Marines should be removed from the service. No benefits. No nothing. They have just thrown it all away.

I wouldn’t. War is pure hell for those tasked to do it and this BS PC war only empowers the scum who cut Westerners heads off. Wars are meant to kill people and break things. Nothing more nothing less than eliminating your opponent. Americans are born with an inate sense of fair play as it is. But what else is there in a war?

These are young men in combat who VOLUNTEERED to be there to serve our country. They are fighting in a place no one cares about, in a war no one cares about, for a government and president who don’t support them. There is no clear enemy, no clear rules of engagement.

I don’t condone what they did, but I think I understand why they did what they did. Reprimand them, then leave them be. They’ve suffered enough already.

Their behavior was utterly contemptible and cannot be tolerated. However, none of us know all of the facts, and until the facts are known, it is wrong for anyone to say what disciplinary action should be taken. We should let the Pentagon investigate the incident and assign the punishment it deems necessary.

I agree. It disturbs me that so many think this act was justifiable. It certainly may be understandable but in no way was it justifiable. Acts such as this put our military men & women at additional risk, not to mention Americans who have to go in many foreign countries.

“Utterly contemptible”? You must never have served in a war zone. The only thing being done here was showing contempt for a vicious enemy. Those who have no knowledge of war should stand by with mouths shut.
Who cares if they pissed on the taliban?

Who cares? Anyone who wants us to win this war. Actions such as this only make it harder to win. These Marines just made the enemy that much more determined to win, and provided them with a great recruiting tool as well. We win wars by removing removing the enemy’s will to fight; what these Marines did put that will back into the enemy.

plebis: I’ll tell you who cares, any thinking loved one of someone over there. This is just the type of incident that makes a wishy-washy potential suicide bomber decide to go ahead, become a m artyr, and blow himself up, along with our service men & women. And the military cares for the same reason. But if you think such actions help win wars, you are correct. They help the enemy win, even if that win is a successful suicide bombing.

Let me put things in the proper perspective. By Taliban fighters you mean the same folks who rape small boys, deny any education to girls, throw acid in girls faces who try to attend school, trade children for monetary debts, murders teachers, blows up water wells, grow poppies rather than food crops, plant roadside bombs which kill Americans, blow up voting stations and many more despicable actions. I would tell the soldiers that I am glad that Taliban were killed rather than them and then tell them to destroy the video and do not get caught doing it again.

I wouldn’t.I’d give them medals. Who cares about a bunch of dead terrorists who’d do/have done the same thing or worse if roles were reversed! We’ve got bigger problems to deal with than kids peeing on dead men.

I would tell them it was lousy PR and to use better judgement in the future. Then I would tell them that it was impossible to thank them enough for putting their lives on the line for me every day. I would buy their lunch and tell them that I would pray for their safety every day!

The only fault that I find in those Marines is that they allowed someone to take a video of them doing their deed….. War is hell and I do NOT believe that their punishment should be much of anything other than counseling about not doing that again…. Trust me the other side does far worse to anyone that they catch and kill…. Problem is though our leftist media doesn’t see their sins as they only see our nations soliders doing the wrong….

It’s shocking to me that so many people think this is one of the horrors of war. Terrible, terrible thing happen in war – as Gen. Sherman put it, “War is all hell.” Those dead enemy soldiers were trying to kill those Marines before they were stopped. They would have happily mutilated and tortured any Marines they captured. Have any of you ‘haters’ stopped to think what the Marines went through before this video was taken?

Yes, it was a stupid act and it was even more stupid to record it. The average age of those Marines is 19. Do you know any 19 year olds who aren’t experienced enough to think things through before they act?

Punish them? Ok, let’s make them clean the latrines for a week, if that will make you happy.

As for me, I’m not losing any sleep over the the enemy combatants that have assumed room temperature.

These young volunteers represent the finest quality of people to represent our nation.Their experience in government service should shine a light on what we can expect for this countries future at their hands.

If the best we can do in response to what would amount to a crime if committed on United States soil is to dismiss it with a “what did you expect, the Taliban are evil and war is hell,” then there is no reason for us to be there or to call the Taliban evil, since we think we are entitled to behave exactly as they do.

Either we have the high ground or we do not. Peeing on a corpse does not constitute high ground. The Geneva conventions have very clear rules about treatment of noncombatants. A corpse is the ultimate noncombatant and these dead men were no longer any threat to our troops.

If I were in a position to do something about these four so-called men, I’d drum them out of the Corps. Dishonorable discharge, because if they felt free to do something this nasty, God only knows what they got up to that wasn’t caught on video. No benefits, no nothing, and next time you get handed an awesome responsibility, BOYS, maybe you will think twice about not squandering it.

Funny how MOST military servicemembers do not get up to this sort of behavior–and there are no front lines in this war. MOST of them have seen at least a little bit of action. So you armchair don’twannabe soldiers out there can excuse atrocity all you like but at the end of the day you are insulting our troops and poorly representing this great nation yourselves.

And yes, I said ATROCITY. Because WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOOD GUYS. Being a good guy is a title you EARN. You don’t get to keep it just on your own say-so. You express it through words and deeds, EVERY SINGLE DAY.

If you don’t understand that? Stop voting, and never join the military. You are a detriment to this country and everything it stands for.

Thankfully, you are not in a position to take any action. Unfortunately, there are other liberals in government who are.

What they did was stupid. Taking the video and putting it on youtube was even more stupid. Give them extra duty, hold half their pay, whatever, but nothing should be done that would affect the rest of their lives.

We are still the high ground as this was NOTHING compared to what the Afghans have done to those they’ve killed.

I’d punish them with an all expense paid month in Hawaii. That should teach them that actions such as theirs have consequence. Then I’d punish them further with a medal. I’m not too sure which to punish them with, a Distinguished Service Medal or a Silver Star. Regardless, that should be punishment enough.

They should have had to stand at attention in front of their commanding officer who should have said, “FROM HERE ON OUT, WHEN YOU KILL THE ENEMY, DO NOT PEE ON THEM. IS THAT UNDERSTOOD?”
They would have to respond, “SIR, YES SIR!”
That should be the end of it. Seriously, this does not deserve any more attention than that. The real crime committed here is all the attention given to the incident that meant nothing at all to anyone except those who chose to score undeserved points with it.

I agree with you, Claudia. I’m far from a Perry supporter but I agree with him on this. I think those Marines should lose some privileges. That’s all. Remember, the Taliban are the enemy. We are not fighting for their rights, after all. I don’t think those Marines should be demoted.

I never voted for Perry, but I actually agree with him here. As far as the alleged urinaters, make them take a class about how “there’s always a camera lurking in the shadows”. That’s punishment enough.

The actions of these Marines were deplorable. The USMC has mechanisms in place to deal with this situation. The politicians need to shut up and stay out of it, and so does the media.

I recall the major networks repeatedly showing videos of American corpses being desecrated in the most horrible, barbaric ways possible, but oddly I don’t recall this level of outrage, and I certainly do not recall John McCain calling for investigations and punishment for the Muslims who committed those atrocities.

The questions the media ought to be pursuing is who posted the thing on Youtube, and why now? It seems a little odd to me that nobody seems to be interested in getting to the actual reasons for the video all of a sudden being released after this length of time. It would not surprise me if it was politically motivated.

Let the military handle it, and shut up about it as Lt. Co. Allen West suggested.

Taking pictures seems to be a feature of the Marine Corps as there was a WWII description by an old marine of the marines as two shooting, two looting, and two taking pictures.The Taliban who are not noted for their sacred handling of dead bodies are not making an issue of this incident as they are too busy making a fool of our president with the peace negotiations.

At MOST, a letter of reprimand for being stupid enough to put it on-line. They had just killed these jokers and the adrenalin was pumping, sure. What should they have done: have an encounter session and whine and moan for greasing these Taliban? Americans, this is what war is all about. Expecting these Marines to be contrite is nuts. Wish that our citizenry felt as outraged at beheadings, honor killings, and all the other little joys of Islam.

You folks are a trip! These cowards have been terrorizing us for years and you want to punish them for pissing on trash? I don’t blame them, in fact it should be a standard practice of pissing on them….especially if they are shooting at us.

Seriously, this was poor behavior but who cares? They just SHOT the terrorists. They’re dead. Considering what those people have done to our war dead this is nothing.

I would be willing to bet that the entire episode was stirred up by Leon Panetta and the Obama Administration to show how sensitiiiiiive we are. Worst case here is an Article 15, but I’m sure the leftist media will continue to make this an issue just like they did at Abu Ghraib.

As the mother of a Marine recruit (he graduates boot camp in 24 days) I would HOPE that my son would not do something like these 4 Marines did – HOWEVER no one knows the true circumstances of what happened. I saw reports that several in their batallion had been killed/injuries recently. They were acting out of grief and retaliation for their dead brothers. Is this an excuse – no – but it does shed some light onto why they did what they did. American forces did MUCH worse things in previous wars – the only difference is that no one filmed it. They’ve been punished enough. Time to move on.

I agree, Sally, and thank you to your son for volunteering to serve and to you for raising a son that is willing to do this. My son will be going to Army boot camp in a few months. I’ve talked to him about his decision and these wars. I’ve talked to him about how they are similar to Vietnam and many of those veterans have been treated badly. He still thinks it is the right thing to do. I will pray for him and the rest of these brave men every single day.

I wouldn’t. The outcry from the public has been enough.
People should be grateful that’s all they did. OUR war dead has been treated much worse…and to far little outrage from the public.
What they did was classless yes….but certainly not deserving of all the vitrol they’re getting here. Those insurgents were already DEAD…beyond caring what was done to them.
The only mistake they made, in my opinion, was recording it. Why they did that, I don’t get.
Unless you’ve been there…then don’t judge.

I don’t have a problem witht the act itself. I have a problem with them videoing it and then distributing it. War is hell and soldiers on all sides do things that us civilians don’t understand. Most of us have not been shot at or relentlessly attacked by an enemy bent on killing. So we have no point of reference for why these marines peed on the corpses. But, they need to know they cannot film this type of action. Period. So their punishment should be whatever the field manual outlines and hope that other marines will learn to leave the cameras at home.

While I agree it was a terrible display, it does not warrant these soldiers who gave in most instance their lives fighting for this country, to have their entire career ruined behind these types incidents, the reality is that war is horrible and does grave damage to the human psyche, and its not like they do not train them to look at the enemy as substandard, I’m not agreeing with such training, because even in times of war to kill your enemy can still be done compassionately, you understand its kill or be killed, how is it in the other countries in the middle east their soldiers and even terrorist are martyr ? and ours if caught in any infraction are demonized and have their career ruined, just release the usual statement of it will be dealt with in house, they will be disciplined blah, blah. and who is it that keep releasing these damning videos? leave the solders alone!!! we are the only ones who destroy the very people who fight for this country over infractions, in times of war with PTSD s*it happens!!

Lets not blame our entire military for the actions of a few. Having served in the military myself, I have witnessed many nucklehead moves by members of our military. Many of these soldiers are not older than 20yrs old. I don’t think they realized the backlash this would cause. That being said it is war and I can guarantee you it has happened before,for and against us. Only difference was there was no camera. Guys keep up the good work, just be careful if your comrads are recording. Blanket party for the cameraman.

The Taliban may not care about the Geneva Convention, but we do. Under US law, the UCMJ, and the Geneva Convention, what those Marines did was unlawful and they should be punished for it with their time in the combat zone taken into account as a mitigating circumstance.

What is worse, what those Marines did will embolden the Taliban and reduce the support of our allies. Those Marines have done is hand the enemy a great recruiting tool, which will make the war go on longer. By pissing on the dead, they have pissed on their own Corps.

My background is I am an Army veteran. If they violated the Geneva convention, as the story is reported, than media attention is not near enough punishment for what they did. Violating the Geneva convention is serious, what they did were individual decisions and not just following bad orders, and this behavior is not representative of the whole military. In summary, they performed a serious act of misconduct and proved they are unfit for making decisions while representing our country. Therefore I would strip them of their rank, all remaining pay, I would be flexible on imprisonment giving them anywhere from 30-180 days, and then give them dishonorable discharges. If there is a fifth person, the one that shot the video, he could get a much lesser sentence depending on his part.

WOULD GIVE THEM THE BRONZE STAR.
THEY ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOB.
ITS A WAR PEOPLE AND TROOPS ARE REALLY STRESSED, YOU WOULD BE TOO, SO TO THE WOSSIES WHO ARE COMPLAINING, SHUT THE MOUTH, GO JOIN THE MARINES AND GO TO WAR AND THEN YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. AS IT IS YOU DO NOT HAVE THE GUTS TO FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY. SO SHUT UP PLEASE.
IN WAR THERE ARE NO RULES EXCEPT FIGHT TO WIN

THE FIRST THING I LEARNED IN MY SIX YEARS AS A MARINE, WAS THAT IN AN INSTITUTION LIKE THE M.C., THERE IS A 10% OF “SCREW UPS”….AND APPARENTLY THESE KIDS PEEING ON DEAD ENEMY CORPSES, ARE THE INFAMOUS 10%. BUT I WILL NOT JUMP OUT AND START SCREAMING “BLOODY MURDER”. THE TALIBAN WERE DEAD WHEN THEY WERE SHOWERED WITH PEE, THAT’S ALL. SO WHY IS THERE SO MUCH NEGATIVE PUBLICITY ??? WHAT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED, IS HOW CAN WE BRING ALL “OUR” KIDS HOME FROM AFGHANISTAN 100% SAFE AND ALIVE A.S.A.P.,INSTEAD OF HOW WE CAN PUNISH A VERY SMALL GROUP OF MISBEHAVING IMMATURE KIDS ???