From bmd54321 at gmail.com Thu Feb 1 01:25:54 2018
From: bmd54321 at gmail.com (Brian M. Delaney)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 20:25:54 -0500
Subject: [ExI] Aging is now included into the WHO work program. Thanks!
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
El 2018-01-31 a las 10:01, Ilia Stambler escribi?:
> Dear friends,
>
> Following the previous extensive correspondence and the recent WHO
> Executive Board Meeting that was completed on January 27, I felt it was
> necessary to provide an update on the campaign that many longevity
> activists were conducting for the inclusion of aging health into the WHO
> work program.
>
> *Briefly: Congratulations, the longevity activists have won!*
>
> http://www.who.int/about/what-we-do/gpw-thirteen-consultation/en/
>
> http://apps.who.int/gb/ebwha/pdf_files/EB142/B142_3-en.pdf?ua=1
Ilia,
This is fantastic news. Thanks for your efforts, which obviously helped
make this happen.
Brian
--
Brian M. Delaney
Project Coordinator, Society for the Rescue of Our Elders
http://www.RescueElders.org/
President, CR Society International
http://www.CRSociety.org
From tara at taramayastales.com Thu Feb 1 01:39:42 2018
From: tara at taramayastales.com (Tara Maya)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 17:39:42 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Aging is now included into the WHO work program. Thanks!
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <03C641B0-FD71-4392-B888-39B6DAA17400@taramayastales.com>
Wow! Good news.
> On Jan 31, 2018, at 5:25 PM, Brian M. Delaney wrote:
>
>
> El 2018-01-31 a las 10:01, Ilia Stambler escribi?:
>> Dear friends,
>> Following the previous extensive correspondence and the recent WHO Executive Board Meeting that was completed on January 27, I felt it was necessary to provide an update on the campaign that many longevity activists were conducting for the inclusion of aging health into the WHO work program.
>> *Briefly: Congratulations, the longevity activists have won!*
>> http://www.who.int/about/what-we-do/gpw-thirteen-consultation/en/
>> http://apps.who.int/gb/ebwha/pdf_files/EB142/B142_3-en.pdf?ua=1
>
>
>
> Ilia,
>
> This is fantastic news. Thanks for your efforts, which obviously helped make this happen.
>
> Brian
>
> --
> Brian M. Delaney
> Project Coordinator, Society for the Rescue of Our Elders
> http://www.RescueElders.org/
> President, CR Society International
> http://www.CRSociety.org
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
Tara Maya
Blog | Twitter | Facebook | Amazon | Goodreads
From danust2012 at gmail.com Thu Feb 1 20:58:04 2018
From: danust2012 at gmail.com (Dan TheBookMan)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 12:58:04 -0800
Subject: [ExI] The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References:
<4fb901d3997d$faab7a20$f0026e60$@sovacs.com>
Message-ID: <1244E933-89AF-4667-A32B-DC00D2FAB328@gmail.com>
On Jan 30, 2018, at 2:45 PM, John Clark wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:54 PM, Christian Saucier wrote:
>
> ?
>> ?> ?The solution to world peace and nuclear annihilation will not come from wall street and nation states. We need alternatives.
>
> ?Wall Street? I knew you didn't like nation states but I didn't know you don't like capitalism either. ?What do you like?
If by capitalism you mean free markets, then being pro-free markets almost certainly means being anti-Wall Street. And libertarians should, in my opinion, be pro-free markets not pro-business. What Wall Street tends to favor is government favors not free markets.
>> ?> ?Nation states as we know them today will not survive the move to peer-to-peer electronic money, exchanges,
> Christian?, I joined this list a quarter century ago long before bitcoin, and from day one I heard about the Crypto ?revolution that was about to happen. And even before that way back in 1988 Timothy C May wrote his "Crypto Anarchist Manifesto?" ?and I was very impressed by it's opening line:
>
> "A specter is haunting the modern world, the specter of crypto anarchy."
>
> We were all sure it was just about to happen any day now, b?ut? here we are in 2018 and nation states are stronger than ever. Like it or not nation states? aren't going? away anytime soon, we're just going to have to deal with it. ?
I happen to also agree that crypto-currency is unlikely to deal real damage to states. If it were, I imagine governments like the US and UK would simply use the ?terrorists are being funded through it? excuse to persecute people involved. Yeah, they wouldn?t catch everyone, but it would likely stifle the movement.
Also, currency failures don?t always bring down governments. Zimbabwe?s rulers certainly had little trouble staying in power while they wrecked the currency.
Regards,
Dan
Sample my latest Kindle book "Sand Trap":
http://mybook.to/SandTrap
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From johnkclark at gmail.com Sat Feb 3 17:19:24 2018
From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 12:19:24 -0500
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
Message-ID:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtOGPJ0URM
John K Clark
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From spike66 at att.net Sun Feb 4 15:18:29 2018
From: spike66 at att.net (spike)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 07:18:29 -0800
Subject: [ExI] multiplication from division
Message-ID: <000801d39dcb$6af465c0$40dd3140$@att.net>
The US government appears to be at war with itself, as demonstrated in the
FISA memo released Friday. It occurred to me how tragic it is that we are
failing to make a ton of money off of it.
We could have political-based advertising. Take a product that is pretty
much the same thing, some kind of vegetable or toilet paper for instance,
then have the brand name be the political party that the buyer favors.
In a sense we are already doing this: if you show up at Starbucks with a
MAGA hat, good chance you will be asked to honor their safe-space policy.
If you wear that same hat in McDonalds however, you are welcomed.
Since American politics are so deeply divided and polarized, it is a tragedy
indeed if we fail to multiply profits from the division.
spike
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From atymes at gmail.com Sun Feb 4 19:54:01 2018
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 11:54:01 -0800
Subject: [ExI] multiplication from division
In-Reply-To: <000801d39dcb$6af465c0$40dd3140$@att.net>
References: <000801d39dcb$6af465c0$40dd3140$@att.net>
Message-ID:
Political futures markets are a thing. However, those who yell and
scream loudest tend not to have money - or at least, not money they
could be enticed to put on such markets, even for the positions they
present themselves as 100% sure of, with ample reasons they can give
that have nothing to do with, "I don't really believe this will work."
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:18 AM, spike wrote:
>
>
> The US government appears to be at war with itself, as demonstrated in the
> FISA memo released Friday. It occurred to me how tragic it is that we are
> failing to make a ton of money off of it.
>
>
>
> We could have political-based advertising. Take a product that is pretty
> much the same thing, some kind of vegetable or toilet paper for instance,
> then have the brand name be the political party that the buyer favors.
>
>
>
> In a sense we are already doing this: if you show up at Starbucks with a
> MAGA hat, good chance you will be asked to honor their safe-space policy.
> If you wear that same hat in McDonalds however, you are welcomed.
>
>
>
> Since American politics are so deeply divided and polarized, it is a tragedy
> indeed if we fail to multiply profits from the division.
>
>
>
> spike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
From atymes at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 04:09:52 2018
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 20:09:52 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
Except there's another couple interpretations:
* We are indeed the first, however mathematically likely if you make
certain assumptions that are not necessarily warranted. (They kind of
alluded to this in the "filter is behind us" bit, but this is not
quite that scenario.)
* The filter ahead of us has stopped others but it won't stop us.
With literally no data, any filter could be supposed - including one
which we are the first to cross. It's kind of Pascal's Wager.
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 9:19 AM, John Clark wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtOGPJ0URM
>
>
> John K Clark
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
From sjatkins at mac.com Mon Feb 5 04:26:11 2018
From: sjatkins at mac.com (Samantha Atkins)
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 20:26:11 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
>
> Except there's another couple interpretations:
>
> * We are indeed the first, however mathematically likely if you make
> certain assumptions that are not necessarily warranted. (They kind of
> alluded to this in the "filter is behind us" bit, but this is not
> quite that scenario.)
I find that by far the least likely. The universe is so vast. Hundreds of billions of planets in this galaxy alone. I would find it easier to believe we are in a simulation arranged for us to be alone.
I do however think that it is very unusual for an evolved technological species to survive and thrive across the its period of accelerating technologies. I think the challenge of transcending evolved psychology and species limitations, much less letting go of being intellectual kind of the hill produces such turmoil that it rips many species apart.
>
> * The filter ahead of us has stopped others but it won't stop us.
> With literally no data, any filter could be supposed - including one
> which we are the first to cross. It's kind of Pascal's Wager.
I think the challenges we obviously face now and in the next few decades are a good enough Great Filter.
From atymes at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 04:40:45 2018
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 20:40:45 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Samantha Atkins wrote:
> I think the challenges we obviously face now and in the next few decades are a good enough Great Filter.
Not disagreeing. Just saying, the Fermi Paradox doesn't even qualify
as an omen, let alone evidence, that it's impossible to survive.
From spike66 at att.net Mon Feb 5 06:21:57 2018
From: spike66 at att.net (spike)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:21:57 -0800
Subject: [ExI] FW: Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To: <004401d39e49$58d79140$0a86b3c0$@rainier66.com>
References:
<003f01d39e49$0e24a480$2a6ded80$@rainier66.com>
<004401d39e49$58d79140$0a86b3c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <030501d39e49$a085a270$e190e750$@att.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf
Of Samantha Atkins
Subject: Re: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
>
>> Except there's another couple interpretations:
>
>> * We are indeed the first, however mathematically likely if you make
>> certain assumptions that are not necessarily warranted. (They kind
>> of alluded to this in the "filter is behind us" bit, but this is not
>> quite that scenario.)
>...I find that by far the least likely. The universe is so vast.
>Hundreds
of billions of planets in this galaxy alone. I would find it easier to
believe we are in a simulation arranged for us to be alone...
We are in a simulation? What you mean WE, Kimosabe?
The line of reasoning you suggest just doesn't stop at the 7 billion humans
on the planet. It works just as well if we bring the number of sims down to
just those who somehow interacted with your life. But then it slides right
on past there to a Truman Show scenario, where this whole thing really is
about an experiment on you. The rest of us are all just avatars, and we are
studying what goes on in the mind of you.
Kidding, bygones! We are really all out here.
Maybe.
How would you know if we are not?
If you were the only one, that would be as weird as quantum mechanics and
Fermi's Paradox.
Samantha, good to see you post again. You really aughta show up more than
once every year or two. Of course that comment is all part of the
experiment on you.
{8^D
spike
From msd001 at gmail.com Thu Feb 8 02:16:09 2018
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 21:16:09 -0500
Subject: [ExI] multiplication from division
In-Reply-To: <000801d39dcb$6af465c0$40dd3140$@att.net>
References: <000801d39dcb$6af465c0$40dd3140$@att.net>
Message-ID:
On Feb 4, 2018 7:31 AM, "spike" wrote:
[not what I was expecting]
I was disappointed this subject line wasn't about a new way to do math.
...something along the lines of how computers implement subtraction via
addition of a compliment and a bit carry.
Oh well - they can't all be new mersenne primes :)
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From tara at taramayastales.com Mon Feb 5 19:06:42 2018
From: tara at taramayastales.com (Tara Maya)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 11:06:42 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <591E545D-6C84-47E6-99B1-E878C02FCDFE@taramayastales.com>
An analogy from history could be the interesting fact that human civilizations around the globe discovered agriculture near-simulteneously (especially in relation to the age of the species over-all) and so expanded out from several points at once. Although this still resulted in some civilizations that were more advanced more quickly (mostly those that collided with each first, and so were able to start stacking innovations faster), the difference was not that huge.
There could be several other life civilizations all arising to the space faring level about the same time. The question is which will collide fastest and gain the early adopter advantage? Another reason that we should seek out collision with aliens, even if it is difficult, to start trading technology and learning as fast as we can.
Tara
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
>
> Except there's another couple interpretations:
>
> * We are indeed the first, however mathematically likely if you make
> certain assumptions that are not necessarily warranted. (They kind of
> alluded to this in the "filter is behind us" bit, but this is not
> quite that scenario.)
From foozler83 at gmail.com Thu Feb 8 13:31:22 2018
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 07:31:22 -0600
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To: <591E545D-6C84-47E6-99B1-E878C02FCDFE@taramayastales.com>
References:
<591E545D-6C84-47E6-99B1-E878C02FCDFE@taramayastales.com>
Message-ID:
tara wrote - Another reason that we should seek out collision with aliens,
even if it is difficult, to start trading technology and learning as fast
as we can.
Yeah - given our warlike nature, collision is far more likely than collusion
bill w
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 1:06 PM, Tara Maya wrote:
> An analogy from history could be the interesting fact that human
> civilizations around the globe discovered agriculture near-simulteneously
> (especially in relation to the age of the species over-all) and so expanded
> out from several points at once. Although this still resulted in some
> civilizations that were more advanced more quickly (mostly those that
> collided with each first, and so were able to start stacking innovations
> faster), the difference was not that huge.
>
> There could be several other life civilizations all arising to the space
> faring level about the same time. The question is which will collide
> fastest and gain the early adopter advantage? Another reason that we should
> seek out collision with aliens, even if it is difficult, to start trading
> technology and learning as fast as we can.
>
> Tara
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
> >
> > Except there's another couple interpretations:
> >
> > * We are indeed the first, however mathematically likely if you make
> > certain assumptions that are not necessarily warranted. (They kind of
> > alluded to this in the "filter is behind us" bit, but this is not
> > quite that scenario.)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From spike at rainier66.com Thu Feb 8 15:09:41 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 07:09:41 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To: <591E545D-6C84-47E6-99B1-E878C02FCDFE@taramayastales.com>
References:
<591E545D-6C84-47E6-99B1-E878C02FCDFE@taramayastales.com>
Message-ID: <009901d3a0ee$d9560430$8c020c90$@rainier66.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf
Of Tara Maya
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 11:07 AM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
>...An analogy from history could be the interesting fact that human
civilizations around the globe discovered agriculture near-simulteneously
(especially in relation to the age of the species over-all) and so expanded
out from several points at once. Although this still resulted in some
civilizations that were more advanced more quickly (mostly those that
collided with each first, and so were able to start stacking innovations
faster), the difference was not that huge.
>...There could be several other life civilizations all arising to the space
faring level about the same time. The question is which will collide fastest
and gain the early adopter advantage? Another reason that we should seek out
collision with aliens, even if it is difficult, to start trading technology
and learning as fast as we can.
>...Tara
Ja, but there is another factor with human expansion: when two of the
civilizations you described encounter each other, they fight. When two
civilizations fight persistently, they develop technological advances from
developing superior weapons. Then using the technology developments from
superior weapons, they develop other technologies which advance the
civilization, and eventually allow modification of the species and its
educational tools. Technology wins, humanity wins.
When two spacefaring species encounter each other, it isn't clear that any
of those warrior technology arguments still hold.
spike
From steinberg.will at gmail.com Thu Feb 8 23:28:48 2018
From: steinberg.will at gmail.com (Will Steinberg)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 18:28:48 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
Message-ID:
Spike I have to say, originally JKC was waaaaayyy worse with the political
stuff, but now I would say you two have become equally bad.
Not a character judgment, just a personal opinion. Still love ya Spike-o.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:27 PM, spike wrote:
>
>
>
>
> *On Behalf Of *John Clark
> *Subject:* [ExI] The Doomsday Clock
>
>
>
> >? Oh well, at least we don't have to face the horrors of Hillary's Email
> server? ? John K Clark?
>
>
>
> Amazing! We were so puzzled over the BleachBit to clean up that server,
> with the reason given that it contained yoga routines. Today we find out?
> that yoga is more politically damaging than appearing to destroy subpoenaed
> evidence! There may have been actual literal yoga on there.
>
>
>
> Check it out:
>
>
>
> https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/41333/
>
>
>
> Who knew? That one took me by surprise when I thought I had seen it all.
>
>
>
> {8^D
>
>
>
> spike
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
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From foozler83 at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 00:11:39 2018
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 18:11:39 -0600
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
Message-ID:
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/41333/
This and its like are the silliest stuff I have ever seen come from far
left professors. I suppose I am guilty of it: I have bought CDs of music
performed by black people. I have bought CDs of music written by black
people. I have danced to music of black people. I have ripped and torn
away their achievements and made them my own. And they loved it.
How do you get on Youtube, get your posts of Facebook go viral? Say, do
something really way out, the more controversial the better. Moderate,
reasoned opinions bolstered by real evidence are passe'.
And why I am wasting my time refuting the silliness? It will pass like last
night's salad and we can flush it down the commode of Time and Change with
the rest of the cultural stink we are now seeing.
bill w
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 3:27 PM, spike wrote:
>
>
>
>
> *On Behalf Of *John Clark
> *Subject:* [ExI] The Doomsday Clock
>
>
>
> >? Oh well, at least we don't have to face the horrors of Hillary's Email
> server? ? John K Clark?
>
>
>
> Amazing! We were so puzzled over the BleachBit to clean up that server,
> with the reason given that it contained yoga routines. Today we find out?
> that yoga is more politically damaging than appearing to destroy subpoenaed
> evidence! There may have been actual literal yoga on there.
>
>
>
> Check it out:
>
>
>
> https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/41333/
>
>
>
> Who knew? That one took me by surprise when I thought I had seen it all.
>
>
>
> {8^D
>
>
>
> spike
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
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From atymes at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 00:28:51 2018
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:28:51 -0800
Subject: [ExI] In smaller space news
Message-ID:
It's no SpaceX, but I figure this should amuse our list admin, at least.
http://bitcoinlatina.org/blog/bitcoinlatina-foundation-and-cubecab-to-launch-300-satellite-network-to-support-bcl-blockchain/
If you want details, ask and I'll provide what I can. Much of it's
still confidential, but anything specifically mentioned in the press
release is now mentioned in a public press release agreed to by both
parties.
I am told this is the largest, by satellite count, constellation for
which a launch contract has been signed. I am not certain if that is
so, but I suspect someone on this list may have the data to confirm or
deny that claim.
From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 00:32:42 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:32:42 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
Message-ID: <006101d3a13d$7fce9b80$7f6bd280$@rainier66.com>
From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Will Steinberg
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 3:29 PM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
>?Spike I have to say, originally JKC was waaaaayyy worse with the political stuff, but now I would say you two have become equally bad.
>?Not a character judgment, just a personal opinion. Still love ya Spike-o.
Noted (thanks Will) but really where I was going with that post was the notion of cultural appropriation, not politics.
We can own intellectual property (patents) and we can own land. We can own land collectively. Where does the new notion of cultural appropriation fit? How broadly shall it be used? Is that analogous to a collectively-owned intellectual property patent? Is the notion of cultural appropriation really new? Or did it kinda start with rap?
We know that musicians sometimes cover songs written by others. Weird Al Yankovich changes the words to make a new song with the same tune. But you can also keep the style and the words then change the tune (plenty of examples of that.) Old time crooner Pat Boone did an experimental album where he took acid rock, kept both the words and the tune but translated it into his style.
Perhaps you will recall No More Mr. Nice Guy by Alice Cooper. That one was kinda comedic, as one tries to picture the acidic Alice Cooper opening doors for little old ladies, going to church and such, describing himself as having been a sweet, sweet thing. OK, now imagine Pat Boone, who really is easy to imagine doing those things. His version of the song keeps the words but replaces it with his style. That too is comedic, as we struggle to picture Boone ?feeling mean? and Reverend Smith punching him in the nose, etc.
Oddly enough, Boone?s version works. It is melodic, easy to listen to, an improvement over Cooper?s original
Now, consider Rap. Never mind the propriety of it all. Try to imagine Pat Boone doing a JayZ cover.
The mind boggles.
This all goes back to the notion of cultural appropriation. If such a thing is to be embraced, does it really make it inappropriate for Americans and Europeans to practice yoga, assuming they cut the spiritual aspect and do the stretches?
How valid is the notion of cultural appropriation?
spike
On Behalf Of John Clark
Subject: [ExI] The Doomsday Clock
>? Oh well, at least we don't have to face the horrors of Hillary's Email server? ? John K Clark?
Amazing! We were so puzzled over the BleachBit to clean up that server, with the reason given that it contained yoga routines. Today we find out? that yoga is more politically damaging than appearing to destroy subpoenaed evidence! There may have been actual literal yoga on there.
Check it out:
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/41333/
Who knew? That one took me by surprise when I thought I had seen it all.
{8^D
spike
_______________________________________________
extropy-chat mailing list
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
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From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 00:43:49 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:43:49 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
Message-ID: <007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of William Flynn Wallace
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 4:12 PM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/41333/
>?This and its like are the silliest stuff I have ever seen come from far left professors. I suppose I am guilty of it: I have bought CDs of music performed by black people. I have bought CDs of music written by black people. I have danced to music of black people. I have ripped and torn away their achievements and made them my own. And they loved it?BillW
Wait, what? You said you have ripped and torn at their achievements and made them your own, and you also said you bought their CDs. You didn?t steal their CDs, ja? So the sentence should have been: I have bought into their achievements and made them my own CDs. What are you guilty of?
spike
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From steinberg.will at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 04:19:43 2018
From: steinberg.will at gmail.com (Will Steinberg)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 23:19:43 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID:
Obviously culture mixing is good.
People take the idea of appropriation too far, but it clearly does happen,
when it's a mockery or a "look how interesting/weird/different [insert
culture] is!"
What I don't get is like...those people are the trolls of the group. The
trolls get more press while the majority of people with real claims are
ignored. Why engage with said trolls' discourse?
Sorry, but I don't get it. Of course yoga is good. Of course covering
music is good. There might be covers that are a poor choice, but
then...just don't do them. If doing the cover would stray too close to
insult/mockery, it's bad.
Just seems simple to me. Mix cultures without being insulting. And fuck
the trolls! :)
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From tara at taramayastales.com Thu Feb 8 16:46:01 2018
From: tara at taramayastales.com (Tara Maya)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 08:46:01 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To: <009901d3a0ee$d9560430$8c020c90$@rainier66.com>
References:
<591E545D-6C84-47E6-99B1-E878C02FCDFE@taramayastales.com>
<009901d3a0ee$d9560430$8c020c90$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <7D5782E5-BE32-4273-B97C-C7BD75290A0B@taramayastales.com>
Do you think humans could learn alien technology, the way we can learn new technologies from other human civilizations?
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 7:09 AM, spike at rainier66.com wrote:
>
> Ja, but there is another factor with human expansion: when two of the
> civilizations you described encounter each other, they fight. When two
> civilizations fight persistently, they develop technological advances from
> developing superior weapons. Then using the technology developments from
> superior weapons, they develop other technologies which advance the
> civilization, and eventually allow modification of the species and its
> educational tools. Technology wins, humanity wins.
>
> When two spacefaring species encounter each other, it isn't clear that any
> of those warrior technology arguments still hold.
Tara Maya
Blog | Twitter | Facebook | Amazon | Goodreads
From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 05:00:47 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 21:00:47 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Will Steinberg
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 8:20 PM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
Obviously culture mixing is good.
People take the idea of appropriation too far, but it clearly does happen, when it's a mockery or a "look how interesting/weird/different [insert culture] is!"
What I don't get is like...those people are the trolls of the group. The trolls get more press while the majority of people with real claims are ignored. Why engage with said trolls' discourse?
Sorry, but I don't get it. Of course yoga is good. Of course covering music is good. There might be covers that are a poor choice, but then...just don't do them. If doing the cover would stray too close to insult/mockery, it's bad.
Just seems simple to me. Mix cultures without being insulting. And fuck the trolls! :)
OK sure. Your response is well-reasoned. Let?s think about it, shall we? The notion of patents covering pretty much anything you want to cover is recent. In 1967 for instance Doug Englebart applied for a patent on the computer mouse. He was told that it was just a trackball turned upside down with software that reversed everything, and software isn?t patentable, so no patent for you. So he created a variation on a theme which wasn?t as good: it had two wheels. This was different from an upside down trackball, so he got his patent. However? he never did collect any royalties on it, because Jobs and Wozniak recognized that the track ball was patented, the two-wheel mouse was patented but the inverted trackball (single ball mouse) wasn?t patented, so they were royalty free, so? they used those, and they are with us to this day.
That was in the 80s. Then things went to such a crazy extreme that you can patent anything you want, but good luck in ever making it stick.
So you can own knowledge. To some extent you can own styles. You can copyright music. Where does that leave us when it comes to culture? The question I am asking goes to the propriety of making claims to ownership of a culture. How do we define a culture? If a professor scorns ?white people? from doing yoga, is that legitimate? Or is it only legitimate if they do yoga with some kind of nod to Hinduism?
Now it will sound like I am going off on a tangent, but it is related.
In the 1970s, a science called ethnobotany really took off. It recognized that rain forests were being mowed down as fast as they could plant cows on them, but that was causing extinction of so many native plants that have medicinal value. So? a discipline arose which was to go find indigenous cultures, find out what they were using for medicine, then take some of it back to the lab to see if it could be synthesized. A Harvard guy named Wade Davis went to Haiti to study zombies. He learned the witchdoctors were extracting toxins from a certain native poisonous frog. This stuff was absorbed through the skin and caused deathlike symptoms. It worked like this: a local criminal could do pretty much whatever he wanted: they have very little on the way of a police force in most of Haiti. Family comes to the witchdoctor, who cooks up frogs, extracts poison, puts it on the floor of local thug, he appears to die, they bury him, witchdoctor comes back, digs him up, gives him the antidote which does bring him back to life to some extent (with plenty of permanent neurological damage), tells the thug: I killed you, and I brought you back. Now you are a zombie. But I can kill you again. You must stay right here in this cemetery and live off the land. That is pretty much the legal system in the Haitian outback.
The witchdoctors knew how to get the toxin. But they were apparently convinced they needed to say the magic words. Without the spells, the toxin alone wouldn?t work (according to them.) Dr. Davis thought otherwise, and eventually did get the recipe for this toxin, and now it is in the western medical toolkit.
OK then. What Davis did is kinda like cultural appropriation. We can take any kind of ethnic food, figure out what is in it, improve it with modern technology, any kind of fashion, create it with superior materials with modern technology. Take any kind of music, improve on it (as the Beatles did with Hindu traditional music (note melody in Norwegian Wood) and make it ours. There is no legal means of protecting cultures from appropriation.
So now I ask: in what sense can it be said that it makes sense to scorn the notion of cultural appropriation? And if we do, why is it Americans don?t seem to have much heartburn when we see other cultures appropriating stuff we invented?
spike
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From foozler83 at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 15:28:47 2018
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 09:28:47 -0600
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
<002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID:
So now I ask: in what sense can it be said that it makes sense to scorn the
notion of cultural appropriation? And if we do, why is it Americans don?t
seem to have much heartburn when we see other cultures appropriating stuff
we invented?
spike
--
Look at American Indians: the actual people have disappeared into vodka
bottles. Americans took their culture and made shows, like Buffalo Bill's,
movies and lots more, while leaving the people behind. What's wrong with
that? Nothing. The Indians could have made those movies, did get money
from Buffalo Bill, are now selling authentic blankets, and so on.
The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's
culture and just blended in to it. But they knew only one way of life, a
Stone Age one, and so did not adapt then and still haven't, existing on
federal handouts and casinos. Put another way, they didn't have marketing
skills.
Do the Irish care when non-Irish celebrate St Pat's day? Nah. They
welcome the participation. In fact, others' joining in validates their
culture, not appropriates it.
No, Spike - it makes no sense at all.
bill w
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:00 PM, wrote:
>
>
>
>
> *From:* extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Will Steinberg
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2018 8:20 PM
> *To:* ExI chat list
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
>
>
>
> Obviously culture mixing is good.
>
>
>
> People take the idea of appropriation too far, but it clearly does happen,
> when it's a mockery or a "look how interesting/weird/different [insert
> culture] is!"
>
>
>
> What I don't get is like...those people are the trolls of the group. The
> trolls get more press while the majority of people with real claims are
> ignored. Why engage with said trolls' discourse?
>
>
>
> Sorry, but I don't get it. Of course yoga is good. Of course covering
> music is good. There might be covers that are a poor choice, but
> then...just don't do them. If doing the cover would stray too close to
> insult/mockery, it's bad.
>
>
>
> Just seems simple to me. Mix cultures without being insulting. And fuck
> the trolls! :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> OK sure. Your response is well-reasoned. Let?s think about it, shall
> we? The notion of patents covering pretty much anything you want to cover
> is recent. In 1967 for instance Doug Englebart applied for a patent on the
> computer mouse. He was told that it was just a trackball turned upside
> down with software that reversed everything, and software isn?t patentable,
> so no patent for you. So he created a variation on a theme which wasn?t as
> good: it had two wheels. This was different from an upside down trackball,
> so he got his patent. However? he never did collect any royalties on it,
> because Jobs and Wozniak recognized that the track ball was patented, the
> two-wheel mouse was patented but the inverted trackball (single ball mouse)
> wasn?t patented, so they were royalty free, so? they used those, and they
> are with us to this day.
>
>
>
> That was in the 80s. Then things went to such a crazy extreme that you
> can patent anything you want, but good luck in ever making it stick.
>
>
>
> So you can own knowledge. To some extent you can own styles. You can
> copyright music. Where does that leave us when it comes to culture? The
> question I am asking goes to the propriety of making claims to ownership of
> a culture. How do we define a culture? If a professor scorns ?white
> people? from doing yoga, is that legitimate? Or is it only legitimate if
> they do yoga with some kind of nod to Hinduism?
>
>
>
> Now it will sound like I am going off on a tangent, but it is related.
>
>
>
> In the 1970s, a science called ethnobotany really took off. It recognized
> that rain forests were being mowed down as fast as they could plant cows on
> them, but that was causing extinction of so many native plants that have
> medicinal value. So? a discipline arose which was to go find indigenous
> cultures, find out what they were using for medicine, then take some of it
> back to the lab to see if it could be synthesized. A Harvard guy named
> Wade Davis went to Haiti to study zombies. He learned the witchdoctors
> were extracting toxins from a certain native poisonous frog. This stuff
> was absorbed through the skin and caused deathlike symptoms. It worked
> like this: a local criminal could do pretty much whatever he wanted: they
> have very little on the way of a police force in most of Haiti. Family
> comes to the witchdoctor, who cooks up frogs, extracts poison, puts it on
> the floor of local thug, he appears to die, they bury him, witchdoctor
> comes back, digs him up, gives him the antidote which does bring him back
> to life to some extent (with plenty of permanent neurological damage),
> tells the thug: I killed you, and I brought you back. Now you are a
> zombie. But I can kill you again. You must stay right here in this
> cemetery and live off the land. That is pretty much the legal system in
> the Haitian outback.
>
>
>
> The witchdoctors knew how to get the toxin. But they were apparently
> convinced they needed to say the magic words. Without the spells, the
> toxin alone wouldn?t work (according to them.) Dr. Davis thought
> otherwise, and eventually did get the recipe for this toxin, and now it is
> in the western medical toolkit.
>
>
>
> OK then. What Davis did is kinda like cultural appropriation. We can
> take any kind of ethnic food, figure out what is in it, improve it with
> modern technology, any kind of fashion, create it with superior materials
> with modern technology. Take any kind of music, improve on it (as the
> Beatles did with Hindu traditional music (note melody in Norwegian Wood)
> and make it ours. There is no legal means of protecting cultures from
> appropriation.
>
>
>
> So now I ask: in what sense can it be said that it makes sense to scorn
> the notion of cultural appropriation? And if we do, why is it Americans
> don?t seem to have much heartburn when we see other cultures appropriating
> stuff we invented?
>
>
>
> spike
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
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From sparge at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 15:42:31 2018
From: sparge at gmail.com (Dave Sill)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 10:42:31 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
<002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:28 AM, William Flynn Wallace
wrote:
> The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's
> culture and just blended in to it. But they knew only one way of life, a
> Stone Age one, and so did not adapt then and still haven't, existing on
> federal handouts and casinos. Put another way, they didn't have marketing
> skills.
>
Wow. Blame the victim much?
-Dave
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From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 15:44:15 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 07:44:15 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
<002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <003901d3a1bc$d7f222d0$87d66870$@rainier66.com>
From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of William Flynn Wallace
Subject: Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
>>?So now I ask: in what sense can it be said that it makes sense to scorn the notion of cultural appropriation? And if we do, why is it Americans don?t seem to have much heartburn when we see other cultures appropriating stuff we invented?
spike
--
>?Do the Irish care when non-Irish celebrate St Pat's day? Nah. They welcome the participation. In fact, others' joining in validates their culture, not appropriates it.
No, Spike - it makes no sense at all.
bill w
Well there is that, but Irish might be a special case. If you ever do one of those 70 dollar DNA tests, it is very difficult to find a person who isn?t part Irish. If they are recent (last century) immigrants from Africa or Asia, they won?t have any probably, but anyone with European ancestry seems to turn up with that in there. I didn?t even know until I took the test. I would bet you have Irish BillW.
spike
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From sparge at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 16:06:18 2018
From: sparge at gmail.com (Dave Sill)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 11:06:18 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <003901d3a1bc$d7f222d0$87d66870$@rainier66.com>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
<002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
<003901d3a1bc$d7f222d0$87d66870$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:44 AM, wrote:
>
>
> Well there is that, but Irish might be a special case. If you ever do one
> of those 70 dollar DNA tests, it is very difficult to find a person who
> isn?t part Irish. If they are recent (last century) immigrants from Africa
> or Asia, they won?t have any probably, but anyone with European ancestry
> seems to turn up with that in there. I didn?t even know until I took the
> test. I would bet you have Irish BillW.
>
Before you put too much faith in DNA ancestry testing:
https://gizmodo.com/how-dna-testing-botched-my-familys-heritage-and-probab-1820932637
-Dave
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From danust2012 at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 16:17:12 2018
From: danust2012 at gmail.com (Dan TheBookMan)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 08:17:12 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga!
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
<002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <71137C29-B62A-4F43-A37E-F5997F8360D0@gmail.com>
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:28 AM, William Flynn Wallace wrote:
> The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's culture and just blended in to it. But they knew only one way of life, a Stone Age one, and so did not adapt then and still haven't, existing on federal handouts and casinos. Put another way, they didn't have marketing skills.
Indigenous Americans (American Indians or Native Americans) often did appropriate Western European culture. For instance, aside from technology and Christianity, they adopted using US legal standards by trying their cases in US courts. However, this didn?t work out so well, especially if when defending their legal rights they clashed with the US citizens of European descent who wanted Indigenous American lands. Then they simply lost out of their claims were ignored.
Ever heard of the Trail of Tears? Part of that had to do with finding gold in Georgia. Despite fighting state and federal removal laws in the courts, the Indigenous Americans still got removed.
Regards,
Dan
Sample my latest Kindle book "Sand Trap":
http://mybook.to/SandTrap
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From danust2012 at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 16:33:21 2018
From: danust2012 at gmail.com (Dan TheBookMan)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 08:33:21 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga!
In-Reply-To: <006101d3a13d$7fce9b80$7f6bd280$@rainier66.com>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<006101d3a13d$7fce9b80$7f6bd280$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <35D607B6-F90F-4B3C-8FDC-65DAE6BD20D3@gmail.com>
On Feb 8, 2018, at 4:32 PM, wrote:
> How valid is the notion of cultural appropriation?
In my view, intellectual property in general has serious problems. Cultural appropriation overall is, to me, idiotic. Cultures aren?t owned in the first place and they?re certainly not passed along through gene lines or families. Trying to implement the idea through legal sanctions has serious implications for stifling cultural innovation and harassing individuals. (A case can be made for boycotting folks who are, say, being bigots, but that?s another matter and really not a legal sanction but personal exercise of choice of who to associate and trade with.)
Regards,
Dan
Sample my latest Kindle book "Sand Trap":
http://mybook.to/SandTrap
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From foozler83 at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 17:04:04 2018
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 11:04:04 -0600
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <003901d3a1bc$d7f222d0$87d66870$@rainier66.com>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
<002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
<003901d3a1bc$d7f222d0$87d66870$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID:
Wow. Blame the victim much?
-Dave
I am hardly without sympathies for all the people Europeans slaughtered and
decimated with small pox, though it was just like what always happens with
two cultures with far different technology clash. What was done in the
British Empire, the European conquest of the Americans, and so on, was
sinful. But that just goes to show what humans are really like: if they
can kill off what they deem as enemies (an enemy is someone who is not US),
they will. Also, they will take their women, children, and turn them into
slaves, plus ripping off whatever they want. Odysseus was a hero, right?
Raper and killer of women. Plunderer. Hero!!??
It's not so much blame the victim to me, it's just that they did not have
the right stuff to compete with Europeans. And still don't. You can argue
heredity/environment endlessly, but what American Indians have
accomplished, before and after we came, is very little. Other groups with
mindbending poverty, illness, oppression, and so on in their backgrounds,
have blended in - assimilated. Not so American Indians. Look at the
California Vietnamese. Doughnut czars now.
On the positive side, the Indians now have all the opportunities of modern
society, health care, food stamps, TV, firewater, which they would maybe
never have had had they been left alone for another thousand years.
Dave? Do you think we owe them endlessly? Reparations forever? Hmmm.
Maybe we ought to toss them out of the reservations (breaking yet another
treaty, ho hum), and force them to adapt to modern life.
------
I would bet you have Irish BillW.
spike
Almost certainly true. I would say that I would be proud to have Irish
genes, but it would be a lie. I cannot be proud of something I did not
accomplish. If I have, it doesn't make me any closer emotionally to the
Irish.
I have no African genes, but my first wife did and so do our children.
Hohum. Who cares?
bill w
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 9:44 AM, wrote:
>
>
>
>
> *From:* extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] *On
> Behalf Of *William Flynn Wallace
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
>
>
>
> >>?So now I ask: in what sense can it be said that it makes sense to
> scorn the notion of cultural appropriation? And if we do, why is it
> Americans don?t seem to have much heartburn when we see other cultures
> appropriating stuff we invented?
>
>
>
> spike
>
> --
>
>
>
> >?Do the Irish care when non-Irish celebrate St Pat's day? Nah. They
> welcome the participation. In fact, others' joining in validates their
> culture, not appropriates it.
>
>
>
> No, Spike - it makes no sense at all.
>
>
>
> bill w
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well there is that, but Irish might be a special case. If you ever do one
> of those 70 dollar DNA tests, it is very difficult to find a person who
> isn?t part Irish. If they are recent (last century) immigrants from Africa
> or Asia, they won?t have any probably, but anyone with European ancestry
> seems to turn up with that in there. I didn?t even know until I took the
> test. I would bet you have Irish BillW.
>
>
>
> spike
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
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From sparge at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 17:55:00 2018
From: sparge at gmail.com (Dave Sill)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 12:55:00 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
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Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:04 PM, William Flynn Wallace
wrote:
>
> I am hardly without sympathies for all the people Europeans slaughtered
> and decimated with small pox, though it was just like what always happens
> with two cultures with far different technology clash.
>
You said:
The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's
culture and just blended in to it.
I don't think anything short of evacuation would have appeased the
Europeans. The problem wasn't that the natives refused European culture
(which they had every right to do), it's that the natives stood in the way
of greedy and insensitive Europeans.
> It's not so much blame the victim to me, it's just that they did not have
> the right stuff to compete with Europeans.
>
Maybe it shouldn't always be about competition. Maybe we should elevate
ourselves to the level respecting others' rights and cultures.
> And still don't. You can argue heredity/environment endlessly, but what
> American Indians have accomplished, before and after we came, is very
> little.
>
Yeah, this 60000-structure city built 1500 years ago had nothing on ancient
Europeans:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5365015/New-images-reveal-Mayan-megalopolis-stunning-detail.html
> Other groups with mindbending poverty, illness, oppression, and so on in
> their backgrounds, have blended in - assimilated. Not so American
> Indians. Look at the California Vietnamese. Doughnut czars now.
>
Maybe they don't want to blend in. They shouldn't have to. And they
shouldn't have to measure up to your standards of worthiness.
> On the positive side, the Indians now have all the opportunities of modern
> society, health care, food stamps, TV, firewater, which they would maybe
> never have had had they been left alone for another thousand years.
>
Oh, yeah, that's a huge positive. I'm sure they're thrilled and thankful
for having met us. :rolleyes:
Dave? Do you think we owe them endlessly? Reparations forever?
>
No, we can't undo the damage that's been done. But we can stop inflicting
more and we can leave them the fuck alone.
-Dave
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From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 18:55:02 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 10:55:02 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
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From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Dave Sill
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 8:06 AM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:44 AM, > wrote:
Well there is that, but Irish might be a special case. If you ever do one of those 70 dollar DNA tests, it is very difficult to find a person who isn?t part Irish. If they are recent (last century) immigrants from Africa or Asia, they won?t have any probably, but anyone with European ancestry seems to turn up with that in there. I didn?t even know until I took the test. I would bet you have Irish BillW.
>?Before you put too much faith in DNA ancestry testing:
https://gizmodo.com/how-dna-testing-botched-my-familys-heritage-and-probab-1820932637
>?-Dave
Ja, we know these 70 dollar DNA kits are not terribly accurate, but they did a terrific job on mine. I was able to find DNA-linked cousins in both Sweden, Germany and Ireland, and trace right back to the place they came from in two of those three cases. I would give them a score of not perfect but good, a solid B+.
spike
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From sparge at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 19:36:02 2018
From: sparge at gmail.com (Dave Sill)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 14:36:02 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <00c001d3a1d7$7ea046b0$7be0d410$@rainier66.com>
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
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Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:55 PM, wrote:
>
>
> Ja, we know these 70 dollar DNA kits are not terribly accurate, but they
> did a terrific job on mine. I was able to find DNA-linked cousins in both
> Sweden, Germany and Ireland, and trace right back to the place they came
> from in two of those three cases. I would give them a score of not perfect
> but good, a solid B+.
>
Did you read the article? It's not about the tests being inaccurate, it's
about the inherent limitations of the process of determining geographic
origin from a set of SNPs.
-Dave
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From atymes at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 20:21:52 2018
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 12:21:52 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
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Message-ID:
n Feb 9, 2018 9:57 AM, "Dave Sill" wrote:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:04 PM, William Flynn Wallace
wrote:
> Dave? Do you think we owe them endlessly? Reparations forever?
>
No, we can't undo the damage that's been done. But we can stop inflicting
more and we can leave them the fuck alone.
What exactly would this entail?
One person's "we've done it this way longer than I've been alive" can be
another's "violating our sacred ways", whether or not said ways have slim
to no documentation of actually being ancient.
Likewise, and as an extension, one person's "not inflicting more damage"
can be another's "reparations forever". Both of them involve one party
being aware of and caring about another for a potentially infinite period
of time ("forever" and "it will never be okay to resume inflicting
damage"). The distinction is whether the one party must give more or
different care and attention to this specific other party than to any other
ordinary fellow member of the first party's civilization.
They are part of our society. It can no longer be otherwise. To leave
them alone would be to expel them and forbid all further contact, an
impossible task (and even if it were possible, morally dubious at best).
To not inflict further damage requires defining what constitutes further
damage. Most clarifications I have seen of this, quickly reduce to endless
repstations - whatever the victims, or more often their self-appointed
guardians, demand each day.
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From steinberg.will at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 20:32:15 2018
From: steinberg.will at gmail.com (Will Steinberg)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 15:32:15 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
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Message-ID:
I think we might have incompatible views because in my opinion if you think
Norwegian Wood is an improvement on traditional Indian music then you have
a screw loose, lol ;)
I mean the Beatles are pretty good for a boy band....
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From sparge at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 20:39:46 2018
From: sparge at gmail.com (Dave Sill)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 15:39:46 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
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Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
> On Feb 9, 2018 9:57 AM, "Dave Sill" wrote:
>
>
> No, we can't undo the damage that's been done. But we can stop inflicting
> more and we can leave them the fuck alone.
>
>
> What exactly would this entail?
>
"Stop inflicting damage" would entail not forcing native Americans to
relocate, not stealing their land, etc. "Leaving them alone" would entail
leaving them alone. Stop meddling in their affairs. Stop telling them how
to live.
One person's "we've done it this way longer than I've been alive" can be
> another's "violating our sacred ways", whether or not said ways have slim
> to no documentation of actually being ancient.
>
What business is it of ours whether some practice is ancient or not?
> Likewise, and as an extension, one person's "not inflicting more damage"
> can be another's "reparations forever".
>
I'm sorry, I don't see how those can be confused. But, as I said, I oppose
reparations.
> Both of them involve one party being aware of and caring about another
> for a potentially infinite period of time ("forever" and "it will never be
> okay to resume inflicting damage").
>
Leaving people alone should be the default. It shouldn't be a burden to
remember not to violate someone's rights. "Oh, crap, I forgot I'm not
supposed to steal my neighbor's stuff and rape his wife!."
> The distinction is whether the one party must give more or different
> care and attention to this specific other party than to any other ordinary
> fellow member of the first party's civilization.
>
I'm not talking about giving native, or African Americans, or ... different
care. I'm talking about respecting other people's rights.
They are part of our society.
>
Are they? What are reservations, then?
> It can no longer be otherwise. To leave them alone would be to expel
> them and forbid all further contact, an impossible task (and even if it
> were possible, morally dubious at best).
>
> To not inflict further damage requires defining what constitutes further
> damage. Most clarifications I have seen of this, quickly reduce to endless
> repstations - whatever the victims, or more often their self-appointed
> guardians, demand each day.
>
No reparations. No guardians. Just mind your own business. It's not that
hard and not that complicated.
-Dave
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From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 21:25:05 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 13:25:05 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
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Message-ID: <012801d3a1ec$77376830$65a63890$@rainier66.com>
From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Dave Sill
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:36 AM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:55 PM, > wrote:
Ja, we know these 70 dollar DNA kits are not terribly accurate, but they did a terrific job on mine. I was able to find DNA-linked cousins in both Sweden, Germany and Ireland, and trace right back to the place they came from in two of those three cases. I would give them a score of not perfect but good, a solid B+.
>?Did you read the article? It's not about the tests being inaccurate, it's about the inherent limitations of the process of determining geographic origin from a set of SNPs.
-Dave
Ja, that is what I was referring to as well. It gives geographic estimates based on matches who are from those areas. Regarding accuracy, it is accurate in finding people who share segments of DNA; I have no complaint there. They found some geographic stuff in mine I find questionable, or at least I hope they are wrong: it traced to France (oh mercy, not France.)
spike
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From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 21:38:16 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 13:38:16 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
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From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Will Steinberg
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:32 PM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
I think we might have incompatible views because in my opinion if you think Norwegian Wood is an improvement on traditional Indian music then you have a screw loose, lol ;)
I mean the Beatles are pretty good for a boy band....
Note the innovative melodies John Lennon wrote after he became guru-ized and they visited India. Compare early bubble-gummy easy-breezy boy-band tunes from before that 1968 Inida trip to the chaotic innovative stuff after that 1968 tour. It was clear to me the lads spent their time listening to Indian music and asking themselves how it can be westernized (since the traditional Hindu music doesn?t use the same scale we do (so the result needed lots of minor key stuff (cool!)))
The weird and marvelous result was the creative chaos of the Beatles? White Album.
I consider that album some of Lennon?s most brilliant work.
spike
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From spike at rainier66.com Fri Feb 9 21:43:19 2018
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 13:43:19 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
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From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Dave Sill
>? "Stop inflicting damage" would entail not forcing native Americans to relocate, not stealing their land, etc. ? -Dave
Ja. The native Americans generally had the notion of collective land ownership, but the arriving Europeans did not. There was even a basic difference in the concept. The native American might say something like ?People do not own land. The land owns the people.? To which the newly arriving Europeans might answer: ?Whaaaaaaaa?????
spike
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From atymes at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 21:56:47 2018
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 13:56:47 -0800
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
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Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Dave Sill wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
>> On Feb 9, 2018 9:57 AM, "Dave Sill" wrote:
>>> No, we can't undo the damage that's been done. But we can stop inflicting
>?> more and we can leave them the fuck alone.
>>
>>
>> What exactly would this entail?
>
> "Stop inflicting damage" would entail not forcing native Americans to
> relocate, not stealing their land, etc. "Leaving them alone" would entail
> leaving them alone. Stop meddling in their affairs. Stop telling them how
> to live.
Define "meddling in their affairs" and "telling them how to live".
For instance, must they obey our laws when they are in our cities?
Yes, it really does drill down into such details.
>> One person's "we've done it this way longer than I've been alive" can be
>> another's "violating our sacred ways", whether or not said ways have slim to
>> no documentation of actually being ancient.
>
> What business is it of ours whether some practice is ancient or not?
"Because it's ancient" is often used as a justification: if it was
pre-existing, then the redress requested is to revert to that state.
>> Both of them involve one party being aware of and caring about another
>> for a potentially infinite period of time ("forever" and "it will never be
>> okay to resume inflicting damage").
>
> Leaving people alone should be the default. It shouldn't be a burden to
> remember not to violate someone's rights. "Oh, crap, I forgot I'm not
> supposed to steal my neighbor's stuff and rape his wife!."
We are not today stealing from Native Americans, nor raping them, to a
much larger degree* than we are stealing from and raping anyone else
who we today call our citizens. What treatment would you have us give
them, that even needs bringing up as something we do not already
extend to everyone?
* Language chosen to deter "but all taxation is theft" derails. We're
talking about relative treatment, not treatment of Native Americans in
isolation.
>> The distinction is whether the one party must give more or different
>> care and attention to this specific other party than to any other ordinary
>> fellow member of the first party's civilization.
>
> I'm not talking about giving native, or African Americans, or ... different
> care. I'm talking about respecting other people's rights.
And we are. An argument could be made for dismantling reservations
and otherwise undoing all laws that today give Native Americans
special or preferential treatment, but that would seem to be the
opposite of what you are calling for.
If that is what you are calling for, then you should explicitly call
for that. Many people will read "leave them alone" as "exile them all
to the reservations and forbid them from returning, so we no longer
interact with them".
From foozler83 at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 22:16:39 2018
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:16:39 -0600
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
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Message-ID:
Maybe they don't want to blend in. They shouldn't have to. And they
shouldn't have to measure up to your standards of worthiness. Dave
I am a liberal and support welfare to the needy. The Indians are needy
because they have a depressed culture full of alcoholism, drug addiction,
crime,and a high suicide rate. Would you leave these people alone to
suffer? I would try to help, but the status quo is not working.
If they are going to be members of this society, they need to contribute to
it. I think that's a standard everyone, liberal or conservative, will
support. Otherwise how can they respect themselves? Maybe they don't, and
that's their basic problem.
I agree with no reparations: black, Indians, anyone. This reminds me of
original sin, the idea that Adam and Eve sunk all the rest of us by their
disobedience. Humbug. I am not responsible for what my ancestors did, and
the offspring of the victims are not harmed by what was done to their
ancestors.
Many black leaders have bemoaned the welfare system as destroying the black
culture, taking away incentives to marry the woman they impregnated, get
and hold jobs, etc. Maybe the same could be said of the Indians.
Help people get on their feet, and THEN leave them alone.
bill w
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Dave Sill wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:04 PM, William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am hardly without sympathies for all the people Europeans slaughtered
>> and decimated with small pox, though it was just like what always happens
>> with two cultures with far different technology clash.
>>
>
> You said:
>
> The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's
> culture and just blended in to it.
>
> I don't think anything short of evacuation would have appeased the
> Europeans. The problem wasn't that the natives refused European culture
> (which they had every right to do), it's that the natives stood in the way
> of greedy and insensitive Europeans.
>
>
>> It's not so much blame the victim to me, it's just that they did not have
>> the right stuff to compete with Europeans.
>>
>
> Maybe it shouldn't always be about competition. Maybe we should elevate
> ourselves to the level respecting others' rights and cultures.
>
>
>> And still don't. You can argue heredity/environment endlessly, but what
>> American Indians have accomplished, before and after we came, is very
>> little.
>>
>
> Yeah, this 60000-structure city built 1500 years ago had nothing on
> ancient Europeans:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5365015/
> New-images-reveal-Mayan-megalopolis-stunning-detail.html
>
>
>> Other groups with mindbending poverty, illness, oppression, and so on in
>> their backgrounds, have blended in - assimilated. Not so American
>> Indians. Look at the California Vietnamese. Doughnut czars now.
>>
>
> Maybe they don't want to blend in. They shouldn't have to. And they
> shouldn't have to measure up to your standards of worthiness.
>
>
>> On the positive side, the Indians now have all the opportunities of
>> modern society, health care, food stamps, TV, firewater, which they would
>> maybe never have had had they been left alone for another thousand years.
>>
>
> Oh, yeah, that's a huge positive. I'm sure they're thrilled and thankful
> for having met us. :rolleyes:
>
> Dave? Do you think we owe them endlessly? Reparations forever?
>>
>
> No, we can't undo the damage that's been done. But we can stop inflicting
> more and we can leave them the fuck alone.
>
> -Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
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From hkeithhenson at gmail.com Sat Feb 10 03:40:25 2018
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 19:40:25 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
Message-ID:
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Samantha Atkins wrote:
>> On Feb 4, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
>>
>> Except there's another couple interpretations:
>>
>> * We are indeed the first, however mathematically likely if you make
>> certain assumptions that are not necessarily warranted. (They kind of
>> alluded to this in the "filter is behind us" bit, but this is not
>> quite that scenario.)
>
> I find that by far the least likely.
I agree, except
> The universe is so vast. Hundreds of billions of planets in this galaxy alone.
We don't really know how hard it is for life to emerge and get to the
technological stage.
> I do however think that it is very unusual for an evolved technological species to survive and thrive across the its period of accelerating technologies. I think the challenge of transcending evolved psychology and species limitations, much less letting go of being intellectual kind of the hill produces such turmoil that it rips many species apart.
The filter says nothing about what happens to such hypothetical
species except the ones in our light cone (if any) don't impress
themselves in an obvious way on what we observe.
It could be there are many surviving species, but the process of
change they all undergo to survive don't lead them to make an obvious
visible splash. The outlines of such changes were discussed in the
early days of this very list. Charles Stross gathered up most of them
and stirred them into Accelerando.
>> * The filter ahead of us has stopped others but it won't stop us.
>> With literally no data, any filter could be supposed - including one
>> which we are the first to cross. It's kind of Pascal's Wager.
>
> I think the challenges we obviously face now and in the next few decades are a good enough Great Filter.
It might be worth thinking about ways to step sideways out of the
universe we inhabit. That's one alternative that would account for
the silence and not imply extinction.
Keith
From atymes at gmail.com Sat Feb 10 05:14:44 2018
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 21:14:44 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Why Alien Life Would be our Doom - The Great Filter
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Keith Henson wrote:
> It might be worth thinking about ways to step sideways out of the
> universe we inhabit. That's one alternative that would account for
> the silence and not imply extinction.
I recall a number of science fiction stories where hyperspace was
found to be inhabitable, so some people - by accident or design - just
moved there.
It seems unlikely, since first we would have to find a way into
hyperspace (and find out that it is that way), but it is not
impossible either.
From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com Sat Feb 10 06:38:19 2018
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:38:19 -0500
Subject: [ExI] former exi poster is smiling
In-Reply-To:
References: <002301d399e1$6051a0d0$20f4e270$@att.net>
Message-ID:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:32 PM, John Clark wrote:
> amoral imbecile
>
### Yeah, these amoral imbeciles just never learn.
Rafa?
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From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com Sat Feb 10 07:11:51 2018
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:11:51 -0500
Subject: [ExI] The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To: <4fb901d3997d$faab7a20$f0026e60$@sovacs.com>
References:
<4fb901d3997d$faab7a20$f0026e60$@sovacs.com>
Message-ID:
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:54 PM, Christian Saucier
wrote:
> *From:* extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] *On
> Behalf Of *John Clark
> *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 10:22 AM
> *To:* ExI chat list
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] The Doomsday Clock
>
> >
>
> > Deciding not to choose because neither candidate is good enough for you
> is silly because evil is not a all or nothing quality (?)
>
> >
>
>
>
> What is silly to me is the promotion of the usual partisan politics with a
> the hope of a different result. If only we voted harder and coronated a
> different puppet in DC, the world would be safer! I wonder if you believe
> Barack Obama deserved his 2009 Nobel Peace Prize?
>
>
>
> When you vote and participate in government rituals, you are giving
> support to the organizations that have created the evil that threatens our
> world today.
>
### Out of principle I do not vote but I would not say government created
much evil - I'd rather claim that government is a conduit channeling the
evil within the hearts of both the ordinary people and the elites, mixed
with a humongous helping of stupidity.
This is why I doubt that cryptocurrencies and similar technologies will
banish evil. For this to happen a more profound change will be needed - an
open and modifiable goal system will have to instilled in all participants
in a society to extirpate the source of corruption at its root. As a former
president said, a "fundamental transformation" will occur.
Clean slate minds, implemented on secure hardware, bereft of the dark
impulses, never cheaters at the prisoner's dilemma played with others of
the same bent, examining and willing to be examined at the core of each
other's motivation, will build the unassailable social construct, a society
of transcendent moral purity, that will wipe the floor with us, the unclean
ones. For in reality, moral purity is strength, and truth is power, but
neither implies universal beneficence.
This article describes a spontaneous invention of the shibboleth in
simulated minds playing the prisoner's dilemma:
http://nautil.us/issue/52/the-hive/is-tribalism-a-natural-malfunction
The authors' interpretation is an exercise in silly leftoid moral preening
but the substance of the article is beautiful. These tiny constructs,
hardly deserving to be called minds, hold a powerful lesson to us. Humans
will soon become truly perfectible, when uploading opens root access to our
souls. Some will choose the path of purity.
Rafa?
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From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com Sat Feb 10 07:22:11 2018
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:22:11 -0500
Subject: [ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock
In-Reply-To:
References: <000201d39947$f90ad200$eb207600$@att.net>
<007501d3a13f$0d866740$289335c0$@rainier66.com>
<002901d3a162$f3795b40$da6c11c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID:
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Dave Sill wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:28 AM, William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's
>> culture and just blended in to it. But they knew only one way of life, a
>> Stone Age one, and so did not adapt then and still haven't, existing on
>> federal handouts and casinos. Put another way, they didn't have marketing
>> skills.
>>
>
> Wow. Blame the victim much?
>
> ### Savages killed civilized people whenever they could spare time from
killing each other. They lost. Good riddance.
And then came Rousseau with his silly fantasies.
Rafa?
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From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com Sat Feb 10 07:30:44 2018
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:30:44 -0500
Subject: [ExI] Forbidden Words
In-Reply-To:
References:
<002201d37683$3d679bf0$b836d3d0$@att.net>
<004f01d3768d$c8f5e1e0$5ae1a5a0$@att.net>