Personal observations of myself, others, states and exile.

On "prostitution"

That’s one of the readings to Islam that doesn’t make sense to me: we are against “prostitution” because sex is “prohibited” since the couple aren’t married, but I guess zawaj el Misyar and Zawaj Al mut3a aren’t prohibited cause sex is practiced under “marriage”, so it’s legal.

It’s not just “Iraqi” women” that are “forced” to offer sexual services in order to survive, it’s the whole world system where a woman’s body becomes a service TO a man’s body that is a recipient to that service. it’s sexism that should be prohibited, not “prostitution”.

and that’s why Zawaj wl Misyar and Zawaj al Mut3a are actually more sexist than “prostitution”, because they are legalizing sexism, and sex service of a woman to a man.

There is also Mulk El-Yameen which is legalized slavery and prostitution. While some may argue that Zawaj El-Misyar and El-Muta’a were disapproved at some point, no one can deny Mulk El-Yameen. The Quran emphasizes it as a right for Muslim men in many verses, and explicitly approves sexual relationships with slaves without marriage.

I think it all depends on the social contexts, in KSA, Mulk El-Yameen is practiced but i don’t think we see cases of it in Lebanon or in Syria. Same with Zawaj el Mut3a, it is heavily practiced in Lebanon among the Shite cult and i don’t think we can see that in the Gulf.

so we do have women used as sex objects in the form of “marriage” under different excuses and shapes. and we have “prostitution” everywhere, another form of sex slavery.

it is not important really for some Muslims to say Zawaj el Misyar or el Mut3a aren’t “Islamic” when we see on the ground how they are practiced under the name of “Islam”.

As it stands, I find your argument to be rather weak. Your average Muslim will just say “this is not true Islam” and move over. The canned response to your argument is “what is practiced in Muslim counties does not represent true Islam”.

If you want to make a strong case, pick an issue that is indisputably supported by Islam, and back up your argument with evidence from the Quran and Hadith. Mulk El-Yameen is established in the Quran and Hadith. Mohammed and his caliphates had female slaves with whom they had sex. Sex slavery is a form of prostitution. Thus, Islam condones and even encourages prostitution.

By the way, you may be surprised to know that most Muslims do not know what Mulk El-Yameen means. They just rehearse it over and over as part of their daily/monthly/yearly routine of reading the Quran without really understanding what it says.

There is no such thing as “evidence” from Quran or Hadith since Quran is written metaphrically and Hadith is not always taken as a reliable source, there is no such thing as “one” Islam, Islam can be whatever, according to its reader.

The problem is when an idea becomes a law, and that’s the case of Islam where a misreading to it could be/is institutionalized, and when a misreading to it is institutionalized, we have a problem in society as the polygamy, forced Hijab, killing homosexuals, and Zawaj al whatever.

So on the contrary, i dont care what books tell me about Islam and what is not Islam, i care what reality speaks about it, if there are things that are done in the name of it, then Muslims should change it instead of getting defensive about it.

Are you talking about Islam as a religion or a culture? If the former, then I disagree with you. The Quran is the foundation of Islam. It is supposed to be the true word of God and must be taken literarily. If one considers the Quran to be a collection of metaphors from which facts cannot be derived, then Islam is not really a religion anymore.

On the other hand, if you mean the latter, then you make a valid point, but I don’t think Muslims will pay attention to what you are saying, mainly because they believe that the problem is not in Islam itself, the problem is those who practice it.

You made your first assumption when you said that Quran “must be taken literary” because it is the word of God, you’re forgetting that there is “Ijtihad” in Islam, and the Shiites are considers the reformers of Islam because they use Ijtihad a lot. Dear, it is very well known that Quran is a poetry-style book, and one cannot take poetry literary.

the second assumption is when you said that a religion should not be a collection of metaphors or it won’t be a religion, why not and says who? and who has the right to say this is a religion and this is not? we need to get out of “framing” things.

This post’s does not intend to belittle Islam, I went beyond “attacking or praising” religion, my intention is to pay attention to “any” idea (a reading) that can be damaging once it is institutionalized, and because this idea is protected in the name of God, one cannot criticize it or reform it. that’s the problem with religion, not religion in itself.

In the four Sunnite schools: Fixed Period Marriage or زواج المتعة was prohibited by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, on the Day of Khaibar. As far as the concept of اجتهاد is concerned, I completely agree with you. I also believe that the study of Islamic sciences is serious. I myself had studied with شيوخ and it is no joking matter. I find Kamel´s observations purposely deviating which is typical in the enemies of Muslims and Islam especially certain circles of orientalists but overly simplistic (personally, I found his conclusions very weak).

And normally I wouldn´t answer such trash but I think it is my obligation to defend the Messenger the best way possible and correct some misconceptions.

The Prophet had a slave girl, Maria Al-Qubtiyya. She bore him his son – Ibrahim – and he considered her on the same standing as his wife. As a matter of fact, she is considered one of the mothers of the believers. Hence, either Kamel is purposely trying to misinform the good readers or he, himself, is just as ignorant – or even more so – than those he mention. He purposely omits hadeeths such as:

أكمل المؤمنين إيمانا أحسنهم خلقا وخياركم خياركم لنسائه
The believers whose faith is most complete, the most moral and best among you are those who treat their women well.

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon hims, when asked by a man: “What are our wives’ rights over us?”, he answered: Feed her when she eats, provide her clothing when she dresses and do not hit her on the face.” And in another transmission at the end of the same hadeeth he – PBUH – says: don’t insult her and don’t abandon her side in bed.” This hadeeth was transmitted by Abu Daud, Nisai and Ibn Majih.

He also said, peace and blessings be upon him:

ما أكرمهن إلا كريم وما أهانهن إلا لئيم

Only a noble man treats women well and only the most contemptible lacks respect towards them.

And if a person is really serious about knowing the truth there are many books on the life of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. It just takes a bit of objectivity and a pure heart.

I think الصقلي Said it all.
Zawaj al muta’a or misyar are not allowed in islam. Even though there are people who practice it, then they should also know that it is not right. Ask any scholar
of islam and they will tell you it is not allowed.

Islam as an institution or rule of law, cannot punish people for what they do in their private lives away from the public. If you want to drink alcohol or be a homosexual or whatever, you do that in your house, then the persons punishment will be after they die.

who is to judge what is a mis-interpretation (misreading)? and what are the effects of those misinterpretations that you mentioned such as polygamy on the society?

even though i know where you come from, but all what you have proven is basically that “this is not islam, look, see in this book, ask a scholar”. and that’s not good enough, and that wasn’t what i was arguing in the first place in this post, i did not say “what is” islam, i said there is a reading to islam that is institutionalized, this reasing is sexist, racist and it’s killing people in the name of islam. whether this is islam or not, it is still being practiced in the name of islam, either muslims like yourselves seriously try and work to change that into “what is islam”, or your argument has no effect whatsoever since it is theoretical.

this is serious, people are being manipulated, people are being killed.

i am afraid that your argument is just a mere “reaction” to all of this fuss, and you should go beyond that to “offer” a new reality:”what’s islam is”- whatever that might be.

Jabz, you said:

“Islam as an institution or rule of law, cannot punish people for what they do in their private lives away from the public. If you want to drink alcohol or be a homosexual or whatever, you do that in your house”

so is “secularism”, it is telling the Turkish and the French ladies to practice Islam in “their houses”, i guess if Islam asks people to be-not what they are in public, then i guess Muslims shouldn’t mind “secularism” at all.

you also said:
“who is to judge what is a mis-interpretation (misreading)?”

you did: you said that “Zawaj al muta’a or misyar are not allowed in islam”, so for you, those who practice it are “misreading” Islam.

you also said:
“what are the effects of those misinterpretations that you mentioned such as polygamy on the society?”

as a starter, i think just like it is disgusting for a woman to have four husbands, it is disgusting for a man to have four wives.

Kamel, you and I posted our comments at the same time, i will respond to your comment soon,

by the way guys, each of you are “either/or” person, either defending or attacking, let’s not think of religion for a moment here and focus on people’s lives cause that’s what’s important at the end of the day and that’s my intention in this post, i really dont care what islam is and what’s not, my problem is when something messes up with people’s lives in the name of islam, secularism, democracy, freedom of speech, human rights, arabism…, and people come and tell me no! this is not what islam stands for.

i think it’s the time for muslims youth to change this reality, or else, let religion be separated from the state, and here, people can be whatever in the streets, and whatever in their houses.

First of all, I am attacking the arguments of this person who is attacking the good reputation of my Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. In reality, I am being more than polite to someone who is accusing the Messenger of being an adulterer and who does not have the decency to measure his words and support them with arguments. He not only talks without evidence but he misquotes others. It is for this reason, I am answering his “post” – to give it some kind of name. Kamel says:

“You admit that the prophet had slave girls whom he had sex with. Hence, you admit that Islam condones slavery and sex without marriage. I think you illustrate my point nicely.”

I admit the Prophet had a slave girl. Again, we are bearing witness to someone purposely deviating what another person said. Does Kamel know how the Prophet treated Maria Al-Qubtiyya? No, he doesn’t. Did he treat her like a slave? No, he didn’t. She is considered the mother of his son Ibrahim who died a baby and she is considered along with the other wives of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, the mother of all Muslims.

By the way, just in case anybody here doesn’t know this bit of information, she had already been a slave in her native Egypt. She was given to the Prophet as a slave by the Archbishop of Egypt. And her complete name is:
مارية بنت شمعون القبطية المصرية Maria daughter of Shamoun Al-Qubtiyya from Egypt. When she was given to the Prophet she obtained the highest ranking because she was with the best of all men who never laid a hand on his wives and never spoke any harsh words to them.

He continues saying:

“And the set of hadiths you quoted are very degrading to women in my opinion. For example: “Do not beat the face”, which implicitly says that other forms of beating may be allowed.”

When Islam was revealed to the Arabs, an Arab could do anything to his wife, anything. No limits. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, set limits. He had to educate this society and he did so with his example. However, not everyone had the ability to follow the example of the Prophet. He ordered Muslims to behave well towards their women folk. He stopped the terrible Jahiliyya custom of burying little girls. He put a stop to savage beatings to which men subjected women. There are many more examples of how well the Messenger treated women and how he exhorted and ordered others to treat them. The Companions of the Messenger, may God be pleased with them, in their endeavor to imitate him did or tried to do everthing within their ability to follow their leader Sayyidina Muhammad Ibn Abdillah, صلى الله عليه وسلم . And personally, in just twenty three years he implemented many incredible changes. Of course, to know this, one must read and analyze; not just shoot their mouth off without any documentation whatsoever to support their claims.

Why doesn’t Kamel tell people how Islam rewarded and still compensates the liberation of slaves. Why? It is either because he is trying to give Islam a bad image – hence he is an enemy of Islam and Muslims and shouldn’t even be listened to. Or it is because he is ignorant in السيرة النبوية الشريفة “The Biography of Noble Life of the Prophet.” Therefore, he should just limit himself to what he is an expert in.

1. It is acceptable to have slaves in Islam as long as you treat them well.
2. It is acceptable to beat women in Islam as long as it is not as violent as how Arabs 1400 years ago used to beat their women.

I’m not going argue with these points. Let’s assume that they are accurate for the sake of argument.

Perhaps Islam brought some improvements to the lives of Bedouins in Arabia 1400 years ago. But in this day and age, slavery cannot be acceptable in any shape or form. It is a violation of basic human rights. It obvious from your post that you admit that slavery is not a good thing, and you try to cover up for this by saying that the prophet of Islam treated his slaves well. Now think about this: which is better, a society in which slavery is acceptable, and one can have sex with their slaves, but they have to treat the slaves well, or a society in which slavery is prohibited, and every human is born free with equal rights? It really isn’t that difficult to answer this question.

The same applies to beating women. In addition to being a form of physical abuse, beating has its severe psychological effects on human beings. It results in feelings of degradation and humiliation. Again, maybe prohibiting men from beating the faces of women brought some improvements to what was going on in Arabia 1400 years ago. But today, beating is just obsolete and barbaric to be honest with you.

I understand that you find it difficult to see someone criticizing your religion. I understand that you declare me an enemy simply because I state my opinions and back them up with facts you yourself admit that they are correct. I understand that you try to embellish violations of human rights and try to make them humane. I understand all of these things because this is how people are raised in our region: intolerant to anyone who is different. But may I ask you to think about what you are doing for a moment?

What facts? Who says it’s acceptable to have slaves in this day and age? Your argumentation lacks academia and I would go so far to say as it seems childish.

I told you how the Prophet behaved but you ignore what I am saying while misquoting me. And you don’t back up your statements because you do not have any scholarly sources whatsoever. The Prophet never even spoke a harsh word to his women. And if you had the most basic idea of Arabic and the ability to consult respectable sources you might be able to come with better arguments instead of sounding like Daniel Pipes who by the way defends his arguments better than you do – although he is not much above mediocre either.

The Prophet liberated slaves. He treated people as his equal. You have no idea what the Prophet was like and you let yourself succumb to the disease in your heart. You don’t know fiqh. Islam encountered slavery and had to deal with it eradicating it whenever it could. On many occasions the Prophet, PBUH, exhorts, even orders his companions to liberate slaves. Liberating slaves gives great reward and it restores human condition to its completeness.

I have studied traditional studies and each day was a revelation and I realized that one of the biggest problems of the Ummah today is the lack of knowledge of many of our brothers and sisters of our deen. God has blessed me with Islam and the ability to read the sources, consult the oceans of knowledge out there and understand how Islam developed and continues to develop.

Let me ask you a question:

Do you know what عرف is? Do you know it’s implication in Fiqh?

Who said for instance on which occasion the following sentence?

متى استعبدتم الناس وقد ولدتهم امهامتهم أحرارا

If you could honestly tell me what this sentence means, where it was said, why it was said then do so. If you can’t, then be a man and recognize your ignorance.

El-Sequilli, you need to calm down and lose this attitude. Personal attacks are not going to get you anywhere.

You admitted that the prophet of Islam had sex slaves, and now you try to embellish this fact by claiming that he treated them well. Slaves are slaves, period. No amount of embellishment can cover up for this ugly fact.

It is true that Muslims are supposed to liberate slaves for certain sins. If anything, this emphasizes the fact that Muslims can have slaves. Indeed, during wars, Muslims can take women as slaves and have sex with them.

After the silly amount of personal attacks you made, I find the discussion with you to be futile. And as I said, I am not surprised at all to see religious fanatics act like this.

I completely agree with الصقلي and its most unfortunate of this world to find people like Kamel who misquote The Quran Sharief and Hadeeth and lead ignorant people astray.

Kamel, it seems you did not read الصقلي post correctly or just trying to be ignorant. He said during the Prophet’s (PBUH) era, Slavery was rampant and plight of women was high. Thats why, the Prophet’s (PBUH) tried abolishing slavery by freeing the slaves.

Even his Sahaba (Companions) like Hazrat Umar (RA), though he was rich, was JUST and used to take turns riding his Camel, with the person who took care of his camel. And The Prophet’s (PBUH) and his Companions used to be dressed & live like ordinary men and always respected women. There is a story of a woman who used to throw rubbish on the Prophet’s (PBUH) (maazallah) but he used to never utter a word or harm that woman.

I suggest you sit with some knowledgeable Muslim Daayi and he would be able to guide you to the correct path.

first of all zwaj el mut3a ,misyer are legal in Islam !!?!?!?! are you out of your mind aren’t you a Muslim .they are prohibited ya man with all do respect .
Islam never free these kinds of marriage ,you should read more about Islam religion .
but prostitution is a filthy thing to do no matter how,also the man or women who sell their body for a mount of money are unspeakable really!! the prove to the world that money can buy almost everything .too shame