PilgrimSoul: What sets me off on this topic is that today not one, not two, but three separate women, all of whom definitely weigh less than me even when the proportions of their frames are taken into consideration, complained in my presence that they were getting “chubby,” “fat,” and “flabby” and that they “needed to lose weight.” And I felt myself wanting to sink into a hole with each new statement. I understand, as a feminist, that the world is constantly policing all women’s bodies. I further understand that even women who fit some patriarchal measure of beauty – including standards dictating acceptable levels of adipose tissue – can thus nonetheless feel oppressed by body standards.

But as a woman who doesn’t follow the “thou shalt not be fat” commandment, it really kind of annoys me when I hear women who benefit from the privilege of not being alternately invisible and gawked at, who can find clothes that are at least in the realm of flattering their body shapes, who don’t have to worry about men on dating sites having opted out of anyone who isn’t “fit”, complaining about their weight. It drives me into frothy anger, actually, because not only do they not realize how fucking hurtful it is for a 170-pound woman to listen to a 110-pound one call herself “fat,” but because unlike them, my “insecurities” about my weight are not just in my fucking head. There are a million people out there who hate fat people on principle, and they would identify me as one of that class.

One thing to point out: I am what the BMI priesthood would call “overweight,” but I am not, by their standards, obese. I say this only so that people will understand that even I am privileged over so-called obese women, in that I get in just under the wire on sizing usually and don’t have to shop at stores “specially targeted” at my body size.

SarahMC: This is something that burns me up as well. I’ve been asked about my non-existant pregnancy on at least five occassions. I have a pretty small frame, but not a very fit one. I get really depressed about the weight I’ve gained since high school (from which I’ve been a graduate for almost ten years), and the weight I’ve gained since last year. I know intellectually and feminist-ically that numbers don’t matter, but whilst I have an easy time applying a body-loving, fat-accepting philosophy to others, I can’t apply it to myself.

All, and I mean all, of my friends are thinner than I am. They are not all rail-thin, but those who weigh more than I do are a head taller than I am, so their weight is spread over a larger surface. I imagine I sound like a jerk when I express these thoughts publicly, but I am aware that my body doesn’t fit the ideal, and that awareness is especially profound when I’m amongst friends. I am anxious about an upcoming trip to the Caribbean because I have to wear a bathing suit among my boyfriend and some mutual friends. I suppose they may not think about my body as much as I do, but I am jealous of those who throw on a bathing suit without a care. When people grab at a centimeter of their flab in my presence and groan with disgust, I wonder how disgusted they are by my much flabbier body. It’s just insensitive and self-absorbed. I don’t complain about my own body in the presence of women who are larger than I am, because I anticipate that they’d think “bish plz” just like I do when thinner women complain around me. At the same time, all women and girls are encouraged to police their bodies, monitor the scale, and bond re: their respective “flaws.” It’s a sick cycle.

PilgrimSoul: Yeah, the bathing suit thing really resonates with me, and nothing can get me irritated more quickly than a thin person trying to bully me into putting one on. I sometimes think that people who are in the normal body weight range don’t get that there’s a whole other level of anxiety involved. When you tell a normal-range person who is insecure about her body, “you’re crazy,” the conversation can end there. When you say that to someone who is a little outside that range, you seem to forget that everything else in society insists that she is overweight, from the size of her jeans to her “flabby arms”, rounded stomach, etc. I’d just like people who want to be “bikini ready” or bounce back to their “pre-pregnancy shape” would think of other people for whom either of those are not possible, and think about the statement they are making.

Another thing that pops up in these conversations is thin people complaining that they are insulted by slogans like “Real Women Have Curves.” To me, this is something similar to men complaining they are insulted that they are shut out of women’s consciousness-raising groups, or whites complaining that black people aren’t always nice to them. Granted that I don’t love the formulation “real women,” the honest truth is that slogans like that aren’t about thin people. They are about rescuing the un-thin from the vat of depression and self-flagellation that everyone seems to think is our just desserts.

SarahMC: “Real Women Have Curves” bothers me for a different reason. By “curves,” people do not mean the curves of plump thighs or the curves of lovehandles or the curves of big arms. The only acceptable “curves” on a woman are the curves of tits and ass. So “RWHC” tends to be an affirmation to women with hourglass figures rather than boyish figures. The slogan is not that revolutionary.

People with all sorts of bodies feel insecure about those bodies, but those with trim bodies are not subjected to the same cultural shaming and disparagement as those with fat(ter) bodies. “No fat chicks.” There’s no corresponding phrase for extremely thin women. Tyra Banks isn’t pulling stunts to see what it’s like to be a skinny lady in this world; she knows what that’s like and she knows it’s good.

PilgrimSoul: Heh, you are kind of right, curvy does usually mean tiny waist and toned arms, I never thought of it that way.

I never know how to explain our last paragraph to thin women, particularly because I understand fully that they hate their bodies too and this has nothing to do with diminishing whatever pain they feel. But I guess I would be able to feel more solidarity with the “thin” on this issue if they seemed as concerned about the pain of “actually fat” women as they were about body dysmorphia and eating disorders.

90 Responses to “On Thin Privilege”

Thanks for the great post. It pretty much all resonates with me, issues I’ve been dealing with since my earliest memories. I hate that I’m an intelligent, confident professional, yet it seems I am nearly always at least in part thinking about my weight. How my clothes look, whether I should go to the gym later…its all consuming.
I too have a co-worker who is very much smaller than me and complains that she needs to exercise and lose weight. I have no idea how to even respond when she says these things! I’ve never even been as small as her, so the fact that she feels she needs to lose weight blows me away. It just goes to show that VERY FEW women are pleased with their bodies, no matter what their size.

oh, thank heavens this is finally, FINALLY being discussed by rational, smart women. it annoys me to absolutely no end. being ‘fat’ is relative depending on the individual, but to a group of people in this world who were never ever called thin or described as ‘skinny’ in their lives, it’s not.

tangent here, but i always love the weight loss stories of women who gained weight after….guess? just guess? of course, they gained weight after having kids. they weren’t heavy *gasp* BEFORE having kids..only after. because that is all that is allowed of women. as a woman, you are only allowed by society to be overweight when you are pregnant. even department stores stick maternity and plus-size clothing right next to each other.

i have had to read the riot act to my galpals who complain about weight and getting fat and omg, i’m so fat i can’t wear that anymore while i’m standing right there. even at my thinnest, i’ve worn a double-digit dress size. i’ve even said “just because i’m the biggest girl in the cab doesn’t mean you can just talk about your 5 or 10 pound weight gain like it’s the end of your world as you know it”. i’m not afraid to do it anymore, either. it’s not that people shouldn’t be concerned about their health, but 5 to 10 pounds is a joke when you are stating it in front of someone who has 50+ pounds to lose.

@sarahmc: The only acceptable “curves” on a woman are the curves of tits and ass.

i think really only the tits count as curves. the ass counts as long as you are super thin everywhere else i.e. arms, waist and legs. girls with big booties and hips were ignored until very, very recently in the media.

“At the same time, all women and girls are encouraged to police their bodies, monitor the scale, and bond re: their respective “flaws.” It’s a sick cycle.”

THIS.

I am naturally quite thin but that does not in any way exempt me or others like me from the policing-complaining-bonding cycle. Basically, we’re all supposed to feel like there’s something wrong with all of us, aren’t we? And that fear/self-loathing is supposed to be something that unites us and creates womanly kinship. It’s fucking sick.

But yeah, I hear where you ladies are coming from. It’s obviously going to be worse for some of us than others, but what’s really shitty that we’re all stuck in the cycle. There is literally no way out.

My skinny friends have all witnessed my ‘glare down of hate and disgust’ when they complain about a little flab on their butts or arms.

The glare is one part “and what am I? Cottage cheese?” and two parts “if you pick at that microscopic bit of fat on your toned size 2 butt one more time – Straight to the moon! (you are not fat, quichur bitchin)”

But, just recently, I started to REALLY love my ass. It is large and swings when I walk. I am very into my ass right now.

This is an honest, genuine heart felt question: so what SHOULD those who are more genetically predisposed to thinness say in these types of conversations? Or should they just stay out of it, recognizing that sometimes all groups of all sorts just need a “safe space”?

What BeckySharper said. All of us are supposed to think that there’s something we NEED to improve about ourselves, and obviously this pressure is greater for those who are more clearly outside of cultural body ideals. As a skinny person, I don’t think too much about my body, except when I was dating an extremely fit L.A. guy and I constantly wondered (though he never said so) if he wished I had a six-pack and bigger breasts and that whole hard SoCal look about me. But even if I’m not thinking about my body, I’m thinking about the fact that I have crows’ feet at 30, ergo I should hate myself. Was it PhDork who posted earlier in the week, “Patriarchy: you’re soaking in it”? Still seems apt.

I don’t write this to belittle the plight of people whose bodies lie outside of what our culture tells us is beautiful or acceptable or whatever terminology we’re using. It would be ridiculous for me to be like “I’m skinny but I read Shapely Prose every day! I get it!!” because certainly it’s outside my personal experience. I can only compare it to the other ways that society tells me specifically that I’m not good enough, use those experiences to try to empathize with others (while trying not to privilege one kind of suffering over another), and try to do what I can not to perpetuate these stigmas.

I second funnyface’s question. I am naturally thin, but I’ve still gained 20 pounds over the last 10 years…and when you were only 105 to start with, that’s a significant weight gain in terms of percentage. And it still feels weird to me, considering I spent the first 20 years of my life being bona fide skinny. Now I’m right in the middle of the “normal” BMI range, and it feels weird to have little rolls and some flab. So am I not allowed to talk about how weird it feels if I’m with a girlfriend who isn’t (and/or never was) skinny, too?

(BTW, it’s okay to tell me it’s not allowed — I am genuinely curious. I have several friends who are significantly heavier than I am, and I honestly never know how to deal with the issue.)

Funnyface, I’d say as to this type of conversation, if all you can think of to offer is “but I hate my body too!” and you have nothing to say about how the culture stigmatizes fat women in particular, yes, I think it would be best to just opt out because frankly, the “me!” stuff does come across as insensitive. As to the specific situations that touch off this thread, I think people could genuinely make an effort to be aware of others, and realize that when you say something you (totally in good faith!) think could only be interpreted to apply to your own body, just think again.

Related: Mysterygirl raises an interesting issue about empathy. Personally, I think that while comparing someone else’s experience to mine can be a helpful tool to lead me to an empathetic place, I think you have to be careful about displacing a “non-privileged” person’s experience with tales of your own. This is what I see thin people doing most often – “But I think I’m fat too!” But you, thin people, are not received as fat by society at large. And if you were on our side, you would choose to recognize that as often as you did, as I say above, body dysmorphia or the “thinning” eating disorders.

Not that it helps, not that it makes it better, but this statement “I am jealous of those who throw on a bathing suit without a care”? You are describing no-one. I honestly don’t think these women exist. There may be women who are happy *now* with how their body looks in a bikini, but they will have worked and worked and worked at that and fear dreadfully that if they stop working, they no longer be happy.

@PhDork “Loving your body just as it is, and refusing to shit talk yourself is a seriously revolutionary act.” I try as hard as I can to do this. I am not as far as a) the loving, but I do manage b) the no shit-talk fairly well.

I think it’s extremely unfortunate that the weight issue is yet another source of divisiveness among women. I sincerely doubt that my fiancé EVER has to police his words around his male friends who are thinner, heavier, whatever. I bet it’s just not an issue.

One of my favorite quotes on this topic is from Naomi Wolf: “We do not need to change our bodies, we need to change our rules. You do not win by struggling to the top of a caste system, you win by refusing to be trapped within one at all. The woman wins who calls herself beautiful and challenges the world to truly see her.”
It is crazy hard to implement in everyday life but as PhDork said, it’s revolutionary and a great ideal to aspire to.

Kivrin: I guess the point is that your “weird” feeling might be the person hearing you’s “life.” I get that you want to be able to complain to your girlfriends, but it’s a vicious cycle of name/blame your faults, as SarahMC points out above, and I do think you have a responsibility to be aware that your hearer may read your comments on your “fat” to be comments on hers. And as the more privileged person in this instance, quoth Twisty: “in a [thin-archy] one’s intent has little bearing on how one’s fast and loose metaphrasery may be experienced by a member of an oppressed class; the onus is on the privileged to cut it the fuck out, not on the aggrieved to toughen the fuck up.”

Just for the record, I really don’t ever complain about my weight apropos of nothing. It’s more situations like, “Yeah, I have to buy a new dress for the party, my old one doesn’t fit anymore.” And my heavier friend saying, “Oh, poor Kivrin, you outgrew your size zero!” Well, yes, I did, and it sucks that I have to spend money on a new dress. But I get that it also sucks to NEVER be that size, so I guess it’s just one of those situations where I have to suck it up by virtue of being genetically privileged.

(I’m also not saying that any or all non-privileged positions are equal to each other, as if it’s the same to be any variety of non-white, non-able-bodied, non-straight, non-male etc. etc. I don’t mean that at all, only that it can be a source of at least partial understanding, so I hope I don’t keep digging myself into a hole!)

PS: thanks for your reply. I am always getting so confused about these sorts of things because I’m happy with my size, which happens to be naturally occurring (without any special effort on my part) at a level that is, I guess “socially acceptable.” I don’t hate my body, which makes me a female anomaly.

And yet, I have friends whose natural state is less “socially acceptable” and who are shamed and hurt by society on a daily basis. And they do things like put themselves down around me, or compare themselves to me, and I feel like sometimes my very presence is hateful and hurtful to them. I mean, what do I do when a friend who I feel is totally adorable and normal looking, whose hair-dos and funky style I totally envy, who is creative and fun and caring and one of my favorite people to be around, constantly expresses around me that she feels she needs to lose weight, and suggests I read the book “Skinny Bitch” and let her know what I think (which is that it is UTTER crap)? I want to make people around me feel GOOD, and yet so often I feel like merely existing makes them feel bad. And I don’t know entirely how to get around that.

so I have these three “unsexy” body parts, two that suffer from too much fat, one that suffers from a lack of fat. Guess which has given me more angst? For every nano of low self esteem watching “Bootylicious” and the few pancake butt jokes I have received, I have had a google of hatred (self induced or otherwise) flung at my too-big body parts. You just cannot compare. There is a huge difference between not being luscious in the tits or the ass and the barrage of disgust shoved at big women. I totally agree with the MRA analogy.

Yeah, funnyface, that’s an even tougher issue. I can only speak to my own experience, but I think maybe what I would appreciate from others when I self-flagellate is a serious response, mostly a la, “I think the dominant body images that make you feel that way are shit, because I would not change anything about you.”

Great post! In my life, I’ve ranged from thin to fat and everywhere in between. My ‘setpoint’ is a muscular size 12. It’s really depressing how much better complete strangers treat you when you are thin. For a long time, I thought it was due to other things like confidence or how I dressed, but no, it’s all about the weight.
It’s a loaded issue, even on feminist boards. This is one of the best I’ve seen on the matter. I’ve seen a lot of posts at Feministing get hijacked by thin privilege, and that’s one of the reasons I’ve stopped reading it as much. If I have to read one more post go on how it’s all about health I’m going to scream.
On a related matter, I am absolutely sick of all the psuedo-medical shit about waist to hip ratio being so important. I’ve never seen anything about correcting for activity level or age, both of which may affect the ratio. Many elite athletes wouldn’t fit the criteria, and they seem pretty healthy. It just seems like some more thinly veiled body shaming for all of us who aren’t blessed with an hourglass figure.

Kirvin: I don’t mind the comments, “Huh. I’ve gained weight, it feels weird,” or even “Yeah, I want to fit back into last year’s swimsuit,” because they don’t implicitly compare your body to mine. But if you start fat-bashing yourself… seriously.

Oh, God no. I’m sure I’m probably unintentionally offensive from time to time — probably on this blog! — but I hope to God I’m more self-aware than that. I know I’m thin. It’s just that I remember when I was really thin, and I had some cute jeans that I wish I could still wear.

Eh, no worries I’m trying to lose a few pounds myself–I should note that my “skinny jeans” are probably about the same size as PS’s “normal jeans”. And yet, I’m pretty sure that the jeans I’m wearing now are someone else’s “skinny jeans”.

@PS:
“I think maybe what I would appreciate from others when I self-flagellate is a serious response, mostly a la, “I think the dominant body images that make you feel that way are shit, because I would not change anything about you.””

That is a great response. I think I’ll try that the next time one of my fabulous friends puts herself down in my presence.

I’m sure I’ve done this in the past, because I spent MANY years of my life just obsessing about this issue. The older I’ve gotten the easier its been to, if not accept myself, at least control myself in the presence of others.

I don’t know how helpful it is to tell 110 pound girls who complain about being “fat” that they’re insensitive. I agree, it is insensitive, but frankly, when said women say things like that around me, my immediate thought process is more like “wow, you are delusional” and “you make me appreciate how sane I am.”

Also, I feel people should be free to evaluate their bodies how they want (perhaps not in public obnoxious ways). These people are perhaps oblivious but I doubt many people are out to shame the people around them nor even think of “fat” as applied to themselves in the same way they think of “fat” as applied to anyone else. “Fat” is not an objective criteria, and if a 110 pound woman is reflecting on her “fatness” you can almost be rest assured she is not making that evaluation on any reasonable, objective criteria nor necessarily sees anyone but herself in that harsh a light. If I say “I’m out of shape” (which some people might claim is a PC way of saying “fat”) maybe I’m really just saying “you know, I would feel better if I exercised more.

I have four colleagues at work who are pregnant right now. All four of them have asked me how I stayed so thin during my pregnancy last year. My response is “I was high thyroid, which was very stressful as it can lead to low birth weight and other issues for the baby, and that’s what made me go into labor so early” (my duaghter was born 6 weeks early but healthy). Their response is always “oh, you’re so lucky” or “God, I wish I was high thyroid.” It’s un-fucking-believable. I’m telling them that I was stressed out about the health of my baby during most of the pregnancy and they’re all fixated on the fact that I didn’t gain much weight. Not to mention that being high thyroid erodes your bone density and makes you feel nervous, too-hot, and hungry all the time. My thyroid is back to normal now, thank god.

@SkiptoMyLou: “I am jealous of those who throw on a bathing suit without a care”? You are describing no-one.

SO TRUE. If there is anyone out there…anyone?…anyone?…who loves popping into a swimsuit because it makes you feel *so great* about your body please, let me know! And bring your friends the unicorn and the Loch Ness Monster!

@PhDork: Wordy McWord. I may have to embroider us a sampler with that on it.

While I agree that thin people shouldn’t do the whole “I’m so fat” thing (for a varity of reaons), this post makes me a little nervous. When someone comments to me that I’ve lost weight, I should be able to say, “Yes I’ve been working really hard to lose my pregnancy weight, so I joined the gym” without my heavier friend jumping in with the mean-spirited, “what are you a size zero?” All the while, I have to endure people asking me if I’m pregnant because the small roll of fat on my stomach is noticable on my small frame, and I have to listen to my sister tell me I looked more like a woman when I was pregnant (because I had boobs). So yes I’m thin, and I have body issues. They aren’t any better or worse than yours. They are just different. So please don’t demean me because I’m smaller than you. (No I don’t believe anything that was said here is demeaning, but anything that tells me to STFU because of the way I look makes me nervous.) Remember the idea that women have to fit a barbie doll body type is the problem, not my existance. I’m sorry if I’m being offensive, I’m honestly not trying to be.

I think the point that other women also feel bad about their bodies has been adequately made. I don’t think that either SarahMC or I started off on a misunderstanding of that. What I do think it would be nice to hear is a recognition that thin privilege exists, whether it takes the form of comfort in bathing suits or not.

Okay, let’s back up a moment. I think part of the problem we’re having here is that we’re still clinging to the idea that fat=bad. There’s no such thing as ‘needing’ to lose a few pounds or I “should” weigh more like xx or whatever because your body is your body is your body, period. And it’s fantastic and beautiful and useful and comfortable just as it is. Just because weight can fluctuate on a person doesn’t mean that less weight is better.

Once we can really jar ourselves out of that mindset, this whole idea of who is allowed to talk about fat will be much less of a big deal.

For example, take Kivrin’s comment about having gained 20 pounds over ten years and feeling uncomfortable about it. If we don’t attach the stigma to the fat then that comment becomes about any other body change and is totally neutral, like discussing how weird your head feels now that your got your long hair cut short or how your ankle feels weak since you got your cast off and you’re walking without crutches or how strange it is to not need glasses anymore since you got laser eye surgery.

@kivrin and funnyface: i think the difference is that a bunch of thin women who weigh about the same complaining about how ‘fat’ they are is not a big deal. if a thin woman complains about how ‘fat’ she is when surrounded by women of different sizes, it would only be natural for other women to feel weird about it, especially since the thin woman complaining about her body is usually the thinnest woman in the group.

@Alyssa: I hear you. Being thin certainly doesn’t exempt us from having body issues, or from being snarked on. That has definitely been my experience as a 120 lb woman. And I get pissed when people snark on my eating habits or my exercising habits, like “Well, YOU can afford to eat dessert.” It’s totally inappropriate to comment on that–or my body in general–regardless of how much I weigh.

However, I do agree with SarahMC that “those with trim bodies are not subjected to the same cultural shaming and disparagement as those with fat(ter) bodies.” That’s undeniable.

@rednrowdy: I think I speak for funnyface, too, when I say that neither of us would ever DREAM of calling ourselves fat in ANY type of company. We’re self-aware enough to know that, in the grand scheme of things, we’re both thin.

@CarrieP: For me, being heavier (than I used to be) is about 50% “wow, this still feels weird, because I used to be so bony,” and 50% “wow, this sucks because I have to buy clothes with bigger numbers on the tag, and in this society bigger numbers = bad.” So it’s half loaded and half not, if that makes any sense.

BTW, I know I’ve been talking a lot about the thinner end of the spectrum here, but I wanted to absolutely state for the record that I understand lament the fact that “those with trim bodies are not subjected to the same cultural shaming and disparagement as those with fat(ter) bodies.” (Just in case that was getting lost in some of my posts.)

CarrieP, am I understanding you correctly in saying that the real enemy here is the societal hatred of fat? Because otherwise I’m not sure your comment understands how stigmas work. A stigmatized person cannot retract the stigma, or vault themselves out of it by claiming x or y privilege isn’t important.

Alyssa, I don’t see how it demeans you to ask you to please be respectful of other people. Let’s unpack this statement, for example, from a “fat” person’s perspective: “Yes I’ve been working really hard [implication: unlike other people who obviously don't work hard to lose weight] to lose my pregnancy weight [i.e. not-real weight, don't worry, it's temporary, I really don't look like this] so I joined the gym [unlike heavier people who never have gym memberships?]“

@ Carrie P: as much as i agree with what you have said, that is not the message that is given to women, and that is not the ideology that pervades our culture. for those of us who don’t know what it is like to be described by a stranger as “skinny”, there is always a need to lose a few pounds, and if society doesn’t tell us that, then families do, or the opposite sex does.

furthermore, women who would be considered overweight, plus-size, and the like are described as “brave”(?!?!) when they get dressed up and take care of their grooming. how did this happen? how is it “brave” to want to make sure you look okay regardless of your size? i’ve had people tell me “oh, you’re so brave”…why the fuck am i brave? because i showered today? because i took time to try and look nice? because if they woke up in my body they couldn’t leave the house? oh…wait…that’s it. the last one.

For roughly the one hundredth time: no one is saying that thin people are not bodysnarked. What they do do, on occasion, is attempt to dominate discussions on society’s views on body size with stories of their own insecurities. I return to what I say above: for an overweight person, this is not about insecurity.

Wonderful, thoughtful discussion as always.
I am in the same position Kivrin – once too skinny but gained weight over the past 3 years and am now “normal”. And you know what? My BF of 3 years still calls me beautiful every day and that’s all that matters to me.
My best friend is heavier than I am and she used to compare herself to me and I repeatedly talked her down from that kind of thought process – always let her know I never considered myself an ideal and that she was healthier than I was as she exercised and I rarely did. Now she never really mentions either of our weights.

Becky, funnyface just said she likes her body.
And even if every single woman on the planet hated her body and dreaded swimsuit season, objectively not all of us will provoke disgust among those who view us, and even those women who dislike their objectively ideal bodies will be looked at as hot by those who see them in a bathing suit.

So is there another noun that you would say it is about? I apologize for being dense, but I think I’m getting lost in all the discussions here. Is it really just about unfairness? Prejudice? What is it that really bugs you the most about The Way Things Are in this thin-obsessed society? Or can it not be put into a single word?