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Ramsis Nassif interview

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THE AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN CAIRO AUC HISTORY ON TARE Mr. Ratusis Nassif
Interviewed by Mr. Maaucher Moadeb-Zadeh, December 11, 1969.
Eanucher: This is Mr. Manucher, interviewed Mr. Ramsis Nassif,
who spent four years of college at AUC and then for one year and a half, finishing up in 1945, tought with AUC. Mr. Ramses Nassif will answer a few questions first surveying his study times at AUC and will tell us something about the time and the duration and his relationship with AUC in general, also he will tell us something more about his activities at AUC, sports and other-wise, and all the other memories that would be help compiling facts for the AUC history that we intend to bring out on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the American University in Cairo.
Mr. Ramsis Nassif: Thank you, Mr. Manucher. I graduated from
AUC, when I received my B.A. in journalism in 1943, and then a little later, at the suggestion of Dr. Howard, who was the Dean of the University at the time, I joined the staff and I taught for about a year and a half, almost two years in fact, a course called an introduction to Egyptian journalism.
It was a great experience for me in many ways because most of the students in my class were roughly my age; in fact a few of them were a little older, And I remember vividly every time I heard somebody call me "Sir" I looked behind to see if they were addressing somebody else. But it was, as I already said, a very interesting experience. In order to stimulate the interest of the students I managed to invite every week at least two of the prominent journalists of Egypt to talk {informally to the students, to answer their (questions, and then asked the students to write a report, an article, or a reportage about the sum total of that lecture. Some of these marries come to minds: Dr. Adly Aziz, the late Dr. Mohammad Azny, whom I'msure
we all remember as long as we live, came at least two or three.Dr. A~ny was really at that time a sort of an elder statesman, and was a contributor to Akhbar El Yom and to Al-Missry. And he was also a delegate, for the delegation of Egypt who came to the United Nations several times. His greatest contribution later on was in the field of human rights, and the work of United Nations in the field of human rights So he came several time#. And Mr. Mohammed I-Taba'yee who was the editor in chief and publisher of Al-Assah, the old A1 Assah, came once. Mustafa Amin and Aly Amin came a couple oftifceg, and these are just some of the names that I can recall, and many others.
And as a result of that, I mean, this course of mine became so popular that the students wanted me to stay on, but I had to make a choice either between teaching or pursuing my career in journalism, and I chose the later. But it was a great experience. I think 1 learned as much from them as they learned from me.
To go back a little earlier, to my student days, I think I contributed, apart from, the regular studies. Which we all had to do, I contributed, perhaps, a great deal to the work of the Campus Caravan, at the time. Journalism was and still is my great passion, so I did a few changes in the foremat, in the lav.ut of this puolication, and I con- triouted |Uite a few articles, and I wrote a few columns Prinocchio" just to sortocf hide the identity of the author so that I could criticise students and teachers without being punished right away. . „
And I came first to the United States as a correspondent Manucher: Excuse me To interrrupt you here Mr. Nass.if. Would you tel..! us something about the type of students you had how many women, how many men, how many of them are in the field of journalism now, and one more question, which I may aSK now before interrupting you again, and that is AUC inaugurated jounalism .in Cairo, Egypt. Is that true? it contributed to this area.
And to what extent has
Nassif: I can say without any hesitation that AUG has
contributed a great deal to the formation of the Egyptian press as such. In actual fact the school of journalism at AUG predates by several years the faculty of journalism at the Egyptian University, at the Cairo University, and even after the Cairo University had started its courses in journalism, I know this first hand from several of my former colleagues, professors at both institutions, that they considered our courses and our way of teaching jour­nalism much more practiced and more pealistic than those that were followed by Cairo University at that time. I'm a bit out of touch now so I can't really discuss the present system in the two institution^with any kind of accuracy or authority.
The composition of our class. What happened actually we followed some basic courses together like, you know philosophy and history and economics and English literature and what -have you and then we were sort of divided between Social Studies and Journalism. Of course I belonged to the Journalism course.
I think we were evenly divided between men and women , and we had some outstanding young ladies of course, young girls, in our class. One comes to mind immediately, that's Az Iza Sjhoukry, at the time, now Aziza Ahmed Hus; ein, wife of the former Egyptian Ambassador of Washington and a very distinguished lady in her own right. She represented our country, Egypt, with honor at the UN on several occasions.
She has contributed to the work of the third committes of the General Assembly of the United Nations. This is the committee which deals with social and humanitarian matters She has realty" left her mark in this field, and I can ..ay with pride that I am proud to have known such a distinguished lady, and to have been a classmate of hers.Another lady, since you were speaking about ladies, is Miss Aida G-uindy, a classmate of mine. We graduated the same year, in *43, who has a very important post in the Social Welfare Department of the Secretariat of the United Nations.
And there were many others. And another classmate was,
I understand, I haven't seen her nor heard from her directly but I have heard of her, is at the time a Miss Andree Sa'ad of the Sa'ad family wno apparently after graduation wrote two successful novels in Paris. She wrote them in French and established quite a name of herself. So I'm not saying that to brag about my former classmates, but these are names that come to mind at this particular time.
So I came to New York for the first time as a correspondent of Akhbar El Yourn and then aftur a couple of years I went back home, and then I came again in 1953. That's when I joined the Secretariat of the United Nations, section describing activities with UN and appointment as U Thant's press aide omitted.
Manucher: Let me help by asking you one (question that just
came to my mind, Mr. Nassif and that is: What sort of social
life did you have, have in those days. That was, of course the hard time of the war, but still there were people in your classes men and women. eocioli^ation was not beyond, dating that is. Now what sort of students did we have; what sort of relationship did they have together, coming from such a large group of nations. Gould ,ou expand on that please.Nassif: Yes, social life was really mostly centered around
activities at the University. We had the Masqueers club for example and that was the great love of our dear friend Dr. Howard. He was the coach; he was the director, the producer, and sometimes he was the main actor#. And we did produce a few plays successfully. That was one aspect. Then there was a great deal of parties; when I say parties, I mean one time at this one's house, the next week was at somebody else's house. We got together a great deal... dating how shall we put it now—individual dating wasn't quite fashionabtee at the time. Mind you this was a good many years ago. I'm tfrad this is one thing we have to put in historical perspective, and I didn't play tennis at the time, but I did play ping pong and there was an active tennis club.
I'm just trying to remember the other activities... Manucher: While you are thinking of other activities, you
mentioned several important people from AUC in the United Nations. Could you elaborate on some others aside from your own classmates, please?
- 5 -
Nassif: Apart from my classmate. Among those who followed
us I believe we have Rushdy Hilidy: he is with UNDP, the UN development program there is there was I don't know where she is now, frankly, Assiz Raheb, who was here at headquarters, then she was transferred to ECA, the Economic Commission for Africa, in Addis Ababa and then I don't know what happened. Either she got married or she resigned and found some other post. I really lost tract of her. There is Leila Doss, who is one of the prominent staff members of UNIDO, that's thr United Nations Industrial Development organization, with head­quarters in Venna. Leila Doss, another classmates. She is actually how the chief of information of this organization, UNIDO. There are a few others, but I can't recall them right this moment.- 6 -
Manucher: Well, I might ask another question. What, was at
the time, when you were a student, what was the student- teachers relation at the time ?
Nassif: On the whole they were good; they were fridndly o
and informal, in most cases. In some case we sort of observed certain ruelds and I would say that the older members of the staff .... One of the most informal and most popular was Leslie Nichols, who was our professor of journalism; among those who were more formal was professor Smith, in philosophy and Dr. Cleland, certainchy the late Dr. Watson, professor of philosophy; Badeau was formal. Another gentleman, Professor Kiven, Marcel Kiven was formal. The only person I remember from my days who kas very informal and he encouraged this informalityeand r ally treat him as a colleague more than as approfessor was professor Nichols, who was the head of the journalism department at that tLme.
Manucher: Could you remember facts that would be considered
not like everyday— concerning your relationship with AUC during your four years at AUC?
Nassif: When you say significant, are you referring to ... .
This was the yearsa: the war ended, and luckily at the time Egypt was spared the horrors of war, but we did exercience at few air raids on Alexandria, on Cairo, especially Heliopolis where I used to live. That I remmember very well. I remember the German advance to Alaipein. There was. I believe there was a tense moment when according to the rumors and the fuinors mongers the Germans had entered Alexandria and some people were fleeing to Aswan and Luxor and to the Sudan. This is among things I remember and I can't think of anything in particular.
Manucher: In your mind do you suppose chat the events of the
four years was affected in any way your academic lif at AUC?Massif: No, luckily they did not. I think they certainly
left an impact on some of us, who were aware that a war was being fought, that the allies were fighting against the Germans and the Italians that Egypt was on the side of the allies, and that ±t was an important historic event in the perspective of history. But I don't thinK it really hampered or hindred our studies, and things were more or less normal to the best of my recollection.
Manucher: How did the number of professors, Amerjcans and
otherwise, tha. is Middle Esterners, compare during those years? How many of each did you have at the time.
Nassif: Well by far the overwheIdling majority if I remember
correctly the majority was in the American. The only few non Americans that I remember one is you, sir professor Manucher; there was Mr. Namani, and among the staff there was Khalil Rizk, I believe, in education; no the late Khalil Rizk was the treasurer; and then there was Hanna Rizk, and then the psychology professor, the late Dr. Amir Boxtor. I had little to do with Yussef, but I knew who he was; I didn't take any courses from the others. We all new the late Khalil Rizk because he was the cashier and the money end of things . . .
But really apart from these names, unless I'm mistaken there were no other non-American professors of* members of the staff at that time of course. I'm sure things must have changed by now.
Manucher: Well Probably I would like to ask you also one more question; may be other questions will come to my mind while you are speaxing. And that is, how did It compare the number of professors to students, that is in your class and the adjacent classes that is how many professors taught how many students?Nassif: The size of our class was rather small; I think
there were roughly about 20 or 22, and we had a different professor practically for ever: different subject.
There was Badeau who taught ethics; there was the late Dr, Watson who taught philosophy there was Mr. Smith who taught — I beg your pardon, Dr, Watson taught philosophy of religion Smith taught philosophy;^Nichols journalism Howard literature ; and Kiven e-conomics, so Niekeie the average was roughly different professors for different subjects and the size of the class was roughly twenty to twenty two, at that time.
Manucher: Now looking at the United Nations, as this
interview is happening is taking place, in the office of Mr. Ramses Nassif, here in the building, it reminds me of asking one more question. And that is: did we have
any relations, did you as a student have relations with the university students of . . . Cairo University . The University in general, when you were a professor, did they have any relations betweexi professors and academicians ? members of the staff of different universities?would you throw some lights, please on this?
Nassif: In effect, one can say, I mean I can say that
my first experience with international groups or inter­national organizations was really at AUC. Because then It was a small university, with a small student body, a small teaching staff but there were so many nationalities there and when I left AUC which was about the middle of ’45 or so,that was the year the United Nations was born, so it is an interesting coincidence in this instance. So I really had my baptism with internationalism oerse . different nationalities right there and then AUC.
I don't think that we had very much to do as students with students of other institutions in Sgypt, with the exception of the American Girls College. Tnere were always some exchange of parties and lectures, And they used tocome to AUG mite often. Very little to do with the Cairo University as far as I can remember. And I really couldn't speak about any relationship between the profess rs of both institub Lons. I just didn't know I wasn't aware of any.
Manucher: Well, one last question which is two-fold; and
the o is, one do you remember an outstanding event which is memorable at the time that you were studying at AUG? And second, what onecdote of any type struck you most and of course which has some bearings on the student. teacher or student staff life. Can you remember any of those two things, one outstanding event, second, an anecdote you have in your memory of AUC at the time.of your studies?
Massif: I think the outstanding event, and I saw that in
all modesty, was I had just started working on Al-Misri Newspaper at the time, during my last year at the University and Dr. Howard called me up and asked me to come and see him, and he offered me this job as a teacher. 1 must say my first reaction was that I couldn't do it, quite frankly I was perhaps a bit too young and inexperienced, and I said but what can I teach these ladies, young ladies and young gentlemen? And talked me into it, and I've never regretted it because it was a challenge... But this was really juite a challenge, and I sort of made up my mind to make it as successful as I could po.sibly can, and I think it was a worthwhile experience..c

THE AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN CAIRO AUC HISTORY ON TARE Mr. Ratusis Nassif
Interviewed by Mr. Maaucher Moadeb-Zadeh, December 11, 1969.
Eanucher: This is Mr. Manucher, interviewed Mr. Ramsis Nassif,
who spent four years of college at AUC and then for one year and a half, finishing up in 1945, tought with AUC. Mr. Ramses Nassif will answer a few questions first surveying his study times at AUC and will tell us something about the time and the duration and his relationship with AUC in general, also he will tell us something more about his activities at AUC, sports and other-wise, and all the other memories that would be help compiling facts for the AUC history that we intend to bring out on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the American University in Cairo.
Mr. Ramsis Nassif: Thank you, Mr. Manucher. I graduated from
AUC, when I received my B.A. in journalism in 1943, and then a little later, at the suggestion of Dr. Howard, who was the Dean of the University at the time, I joined the staff and I taught for about a year and a half, almost two years in fact, a course called an introduction to Egyptian journalism.
It was a great experience for me in many ways because most of the students in my class were roughly my age; in fact a few of them were a little older, And I remember vividly every time I heard somebody call me "Sir" I looked behind to see if they were addressing somebody else. But it was, as I already said, a very interesting experience. In order to stimulate the interest of the students I managed to invite every week at least two of the prominent journalists of Egypt to talk {informally to the students, to answer their (questions, and then asked the students to write a report, an article, or a reportage about the sum total of that lecture. Some of these marries come to minds: Dr. Adly Aziz, the late Dr. Mohammad Azny, whom I'msure
we all remember as long as we live, came at least two or three.Dr. A~ny was really at that time a sort of an elder statesman, and was a contributor to Akhbar El Yom and to Al-Missry. And he was also a delegate, for the delegation of Egypt who came to the United Nations several times. His greatest contribution later on was in the field of human rights, and the work of United Nations in the field of human rights So he came several time#. And Mr. Mohammed I-Taba'yee who was the editor in chief and publisher of Al-Assah, the old A1 Assah, came once. Mustafa Amin and Aly Amin came a couple oftifceg, and these are just some of the names that I can recall, and many others.
And as a result of that, I mean, this course of mine became so popular that the students wanted me to stay on, but I had to make a choice either between teaching or pursuing my career in journalism, and I chose the later. But it was a great experience. I think 1 learned as much from them as they learned from me.
To go back a little earlier, to my student days, I think I contributed, apart from, the regular studies. Which we all had to do, I contributed, perhaps, a great deal to the work of the Campus Caravan, at the time. Journalism was and still is my great passion, so I did a few changes in the foremat, in the lav.ut of this puolication, and I con- triouted |Uite a few articles, and I wrote a few columns Prinocchio" just to sortocf hide the identity of the author so that I could criticise students and teachers without being punished right away. . „
And I came first to the United States as a correspondent Manucher: Excuse me To interrrupt you here Mr. Nass.if. Would you tel..! us something about the type of students you had how many women, how many men, how many of them are in the field of journalism now, and one more question, which I may aSK now before interrupting you again, and that is AUC inaugurated jounalism .in Cairo, Egypt. Is that true? it contributed to this area.
And to what extent has
Nassif: I can say without any hesitation that AUG has
contributed a great deal to the formation of the Egyptian press as such. In actual fact the school of journalism at AUG predates by several years the faculty of journalism at the Egyptian University, at the Cairo University, and even after the Cairo University had started its courses in journalism, I know this first hand from several of my former colleagues, professors at both institutions, that they considered our courses and our way of teaching jour­nalism much more practiced and more pealistic than those that were followed by Cairo University at that time. I'm a bit out of touch now so I can't really discuss the present system in the two institution^with any kind of accuracy or authority.
The composition of our class. What happened actually we followed some basic courses together like, you know philosophy and history and economics and English literature and what -have you and then we were sort of divided between Social Studies and Journalism. Of course I belonged to the Journalism course.
I think we were evenly divided between men and women , and we had some outstanding young ladies of course, young girls, in our class. One comes to mind immediately, that's Az Iza Sjhoukry, at the time, now Aziza Ahmed Hus; ein, wife of the former Egyptian Ambassador of Washington and a very distinguished lady in her own right. She represented our country, Egypt, with honor at the UN on several occasions.
She has contributed to the work of the third committes of the General Assembly of the United Nations. This is the committee which deals with social and humanitarian matters She has realty" left her mark in this field, and I can ..ay with pride that I am proud to have known such a distinguished lady, and to have been a classmate of hers.Another lady, since you were speaking about ladies, is Miss Aida G-uindy, a classmate of mine. We graduated the same year, in *43, who has a very important post in the Social Welfare Department of the Secretariat of the United Nations.
And there were many others. And another classmate was,
I understand, I haven't seen her nor heard from her directly but I have heard of her, is at the time a Miss Andree Sa'ad of the Sa'ad family wno apparently after graduation wrote two successful novels in Paris. She wrote them in French and established quite a name of herself. So I'm not saying that to brag about my former classmates, but these are names that come to mind at this particular time.
So I came to New York for the first time as a correspondent of Akhbar El Yourn and then aftur a couple of years I went back home, and then I came again in 1953. That's when I joined the Secretariat of the United Nations, section describing activities with UN and appointment as U Thant's press aide omitted.
Manucher: Let me help by asking you one (question that just
came to my mind, Mr. Nassif and that is: What sort of social
life did you have, have in those days. That was, of course the hard time of the war, but still there were people in your classes men and women. eocioli^ation was not beyond, dating that is. Now what sort of students did we have; what sort of relationship did they have together, coming from such a large group of nations. Gould ,ou expand on that please.Nassif: Yes, social life was really mostly centered around
activities at the University. We had the Masqueers club for example and that was the great love of our dear friend Dr. Howard. He was the coach; he was the director, the producer, and sometimes he was the main actor#. And we did produce a few plays successfully. That was one aspect. Then there was a great deal of parties; when I say parties, I mean one time at this one's house, the next week was at somebody else's house. We got together a great deal... dating how shall we put it now—individual dating wasn't quite fashionabtee at the time. Mind you this was a good many years ago. I'm tfrad this is one thing we have to put in historical perspective, and I didn't play tennis at the time, but I did play ping pong and there was an active tennis club.
I'm just trying to remember the other activities... Manucher: While you are thinking of other activities, you
mentioned several important people from AUC in the United Nations. Could you elaborate on some others aside from your own classmates, please?
- 5 -
Nassif: Apart from my classmate. Among those who followed
us I believe we have Rushdy Hilidy: he is with UNDP, the UN development program there is there was I don't know where she is now, frankly, Assiz Raheb, who was here at headquarters, then she was transferred to ECA, the Economic Commission for Africa, in Addis Ababa and then I don't know what happened. Either she got married or she resigned and found some other post. I really lost tract of her. There is Leila Doss, who is one of the prominent staff members of UNIDO, that's thr United Nations Industrial Development organization, with head­quarters in Venna. Leila Doss, another classmates. She is actually how the chief of information of this organization, UNIDO. There are a few others, but I can't recall them right this moment.- 6 -
Manucher: Well, I might ask another question. What, was at
the time, when you were a student, what was the student- teachers relation at the time ?
Nassif: On the whole they were good; they were fridndly o
and informal, in most cases. In some case we sort of observed certain ruelds and I would say that the older members of the staff .... One of the most informal and most popular was Leslie Nichols, who was our professor of journalism; among those who were more formal was professor Smith, in philosophy and Dr. Cleland, certainchy the late Dr. Watson, professor of philosophy; Badeau was formal. Another gentleman, Professor Kiven, Marcel Kiven was formal. The only person I remember from my days who kas very informal and he encouraged this informalityeand r ally treat him as a colleague more than as approfessor was professor Nichols, who was the head of the journalism department at that tLme.
Manucher: Could you remember facts that would be considered
not like everyday— concerning your relationship with AUC during your four years at AUC?
Nassif: When you say significant, are you referring to ... .
This was the yearsa: the war ended, and luckily at the time Egypt was spared the horrors of war, but we did exercience at few air raids on Alexandria, on Cairo, especially Heliopolis where I used to live. That I remmember very well. I remember the German advance to Alaipein. There was. I believe there was a tense moment when according to the rumors and the fuinors mongers the Germans had entered Alexandria and some people were fleeing to Aswan and Luxor and to the Sudan. This is among things I remember and I can't think of anything in particular.
Manucher: In your mind do you suppose chat the events of the
four years was affected in any way your academic lif at AUC?Massif: No, luckily they did not. I think they certainly
left an impact on some of us, who were aware that a war was being fought, that the allies were fighting against the Germans and the Italians that Egypt was on the side of the allies, and that ±t was an important historic event in the perspective of history. But I don't thinK it really hampered or hindred our studies, and things were more or less normal to the best of my recollection.
Manucher: How did the number of professors, Amerjcans and
otherwise, tha. is Middle Esterners, compare during those years? How many of each did you have at the time.
Nassif: Well by far the overwheIdling majority if I remember
correctly the majority was in the American. The only few non Americans that I remember one is you, sir professor Manucher; there was Mr. Namani, and among the staff there was Khalil Rizk, I believe, in education; no the late Khalil Rizk was the treasurer; and then there was Hanna Rizk, and then the psychology professor, the late Dr. Amir Boxtor. I had little to do with Yussef, but I knew who he was; I didn't take any courses from the others. We all new the late Khalil Rizk because he was the cashier and the money end of things . . .
But really apart from these names, unless I'm mistaken there were no other non-American professors of* members of the staff at that time of course. I'm sure things must have changed by now.
Manucher: Well Probably I would like to ask you also one more question; may be other questions will come to my mind while you are speaxing. And that is, how did It compare the number of professors to students, that is in your class and the adjacent classes that is how many professors taught how many students?Nassif: The size of our class was rather small; I think
there were roughly about 20 or 22, and we had a different professor practically for ever: different subject.
There was Badeau who taught ethics; there was the late Dr, Watson who taught philosophy there was Mr. Smith who taught — I beg your pardon, Dr, Watson taught philosophy of religion Smith taught philosophy;^Nichols journalism Howard literature ; and Kiven e-conomics, so Niekeie the average was roughly different professors for different subjects and the size of the class was roughly twenty to twenty two, at that time.
Manucher: Now looking at the United Nations, as this
interview is happening is taking place, in the office of Mr. Ramses Nassif, here in the building, it reminds me of asking one more question. And that is: did we have
any relations, did you as a student have relations with the university students of . . . Cairo University . The University in general, when you were a professor, did they have any relations betweexi professors and academicians ? members of the staff of different universities?would you throw some lights, please on this?
Nassif: In effect, one can say, I mean I can say that
my first experience with international groups or inter­national organizations was really at AUC. Because then It was a small university, with a small student body, a small teaching staff but there were so many nationalities there and when I left AUC which was about the middle of ’45 or so,that was the year the United Nations was born, so it is an interesting coincidence in this instance. So I really had my baptism with internationalism oerse . different nationalities right there and then AUC.
I don't think that we had very much to do as students with students of other institutions in Sgypt, with the exception of the American Girls College. Tnere were always some exchange of parties and lectures, And they used tocome to AUG mite often. Very little to do with the Cairo University as far as I can remember. And I really couldn't speak about any relationship between the profess rs of both institub Lons. I just didn't know I wasn't aware of any.
Manucher: Well, one last question which is two-fold; and
the o is, one do you remember an outstanding event which is memorable at the time that you were studying at AUG? And second, what onecdote of any type struck you most and of course which has some bearings on the student. teacher or student staff life. Can you remember any of those two things, one outstanding event, second, an anecdote you have in your memory of AUC at the time.of your studies?
Massif: I think the outstanding event, and I saw that in
all modesty, was I had just started working on Al-Misri Newspaper at the time, during my last year at the University and Dr. Howard called me up and asked me to come and see him, and he offered me this job as a teacher. 1 must say my first reaction was that I couldn't do it, quite frankly I was perhaps a bit too young and inexperienced, and I said but what can I teach these ladies, young ladies and young gentlemen? And talked me into it, and I've never regretted it because it was a challenge... But this was really juite a challenge, and I sort of made up my mind to make it as successful as I could po.sibly can, and I think it was a worthwhile experience..c