What now for St. Joseph’s?

Our opinion: The end of plans for a brew pub raises new questions. Among them: How much longer can a historic building like this remain vacant?

Well, the argument over St. Joseph’s Church is settled for now, for better or worse. The residents of Albany’s Ten Broeck neighborhood have prevailed in their fight to keep out a brew pub and restaurant. But now it’s up to them, and the members of the Common Council who backed their opposition, to figure out how to keep the fate of this majestic but dormant church from being sealed.

What do they propose doing with the church now? What is their vision for urban preservation?

Ravens Head Brewing Company is done with the city — the capital city, at least. Ravens Head has decided that the old Cohoes Armory building would be a better place to open a pub. Brennon Cleary, one of the owners of Ravens Head, has made it clear that he’ll go only where he’s welcome, and Cohoes officials have made it clear that a brew pub rejected in Albany would be altogether welcome in their downtown.

“We need the support of the community,” says Mr. Cleary. “The elected leaders of Albany have said the community does not want us to be in that building.”

What’s needed in Albany now is to hear just what would be welcome in the Ten Broeck neighborhood — aside, that is, from St. Joseph’s remaining vacant. Simply keeping the church standing is draining the resources of The Historic Albany Foundation, which has owned it for a decade. There are too many other places crying out for help from the foundation’s limited dollars.

“The bottom line is that the building needs use,” says Susan Holland, executive director of Historic Albany. “We’re sending the message that we’re not open for business in Albany. If people don’t like something, they can get a resolution passed against it.”

It was inevitable, we suppose, that a bar — even an upscale microbrewery and restaurant — was going to be a tough sell in a residential neighborhood. Noise, late-night commotion and parking were among the arguments made against it.

But when isn’t parking an issue in a city? Or noise? Even the resumption of religious services at St. Joseph’s — in the highly unlikely event it’s ever used again for worship — could bring an influx of cars and people.

The neighbors and the Common Council have made clear what they don’t want, but now they need to say what they would accept. After this battle, it could be a long time before another enterprise is willing to consider risking a confrontation with neighbors and politicians over St. Joseph’s. But with a wish list in hand, the city’s economic developers, and perhaps members of the business community, could go out in search of potential tenants.

In the meantime, maybe what needs to be resumed is a mainstay of the services once conducted at St. Joseph’s: the collection. Keeping a huge 152-year-old building from falling down — which is, remember, what happened to Trinity Church in the South End less than two years ago — costs money. St. Joseph’s is a stable example of architectural preservation only because Historic Albany, with some taxpayer support, invested $1 million to save it.

So perhaps the neighbors who won the fight to keep the church empty for now could offer some money to Historic Albany — to share the burden, you know.

A discussion about St. Joseph’s can resume from there.

17 Responses

Great article. As I read the coverage about the fate of Historic St. Joseph’s Church in Albany and St. Patrick’s in Watervliet, whose collective fate are now in the hands of a generation, many readers and those covering these stories reference the stiff resistance of neighborhood residents, former worshippers and preservantionists. I have some tough news to write here. And I share this as a practicing Catholic who is 40 years of age, married, straight and is also a father. Former parishoners of St. Joseph’s and St. Patrick’s have no one to blame but themselves. There you have it. It’s not the “Catholic guilt” message I am sharing here. But like most organizations who rely on active members and donations, these two pillars of history and tradition lost active communities along with the resources of its people and now they face demolition or perhaps being turned into something else. I find it odd Historic Albany spend $1 million of its good intentioned resources to maintain an empty building. While I also do not want to see a brewpub in a former place of worship, regardless of the religous denomination, what better alternatives have come forward? Nigro Companies are trying to make the St. Patrick’s property in to a mixed use Price Chopper and residential area. The Dicoese of Albany cannot afford to keep paying for decaying Churches when enrollment is so far down and there is a decline in the priesthood. Reality has bitten. Less people are going to Church, yes that includes Catholics too. I go to Church once a week, I am not a Christmas and Easter only practitioner of my Faith. I do not let atheism, attacks on the Church for mistakes caused in the past or the misleadership of some of my Churches leaders by narrow-minded shovenists to disrupt the strong Faith I have in my religon. I was raised to practice my religion and I believe when I go each week, good things happen in my life. I am fortunate to admit that if my life were to end today, I would say I lived a fulfilled life. My parents did one heck of a job and the Churches I have worshipped in, including those that led the Liturgy, helped influence my life to where it is today. I am also the type of person if I were to win the powerball, the first thing I would do in my charity is write two large checks, one for my current parish in Albany and one for my ancestral parish in central New York and before I would turn these financial resources over to the Albany or Rochester Diocese, there would be firm legal terms that accepting my donation would REQUIRE as part of a new trust that the buildings would NEVER be torn down or put up for sale.

St. Joseph’s and St. Patrick’s need more active parishoners, those who are still living locally, and those who are not living here but worshipped and cherish these two historic gems and step up, put your money where you mouth is and if you want to keep them part of your lief. Otherwise, turn the page, put the fate of these treasures into the business world and do not complain when something else takes it place. Last time I read this paper, I have seen no cause supporting either financially. Nor am I confident this will happen. Until those who call themselves Catholic, get off their lazy behinds, start filling the pews and start getting involved like other parishes who do enjoy such engagement, this trend will continue. There are more Catholics who call themselves Catholic than there are like others and myself who actually set foot in a parish, make weekly contributions and stay involved. Where I worship today is one of the most sought after, most beloved and the most historic Church in our Diocese. It’s on the news every Christas and Easter. And I am not talking about the Cathedral gang. We are successful because we pack every Mass every week, we keep our services to 35-45 minutes, the music is outstanding and people of all ages, all backgrounds and from all over the area drive to downtown Albany with absolutely no parking and keep this historical gem very much alive. That is how you make it happen.

great read, completely on board with all your thoughts. But you’re ahead of yourself with the process. Nothing has been officially denied, nor is the deal in Cohoes final.
Also, as a neighbor of St Joes, if that community around the triangle is able to become so organized to deny a 3mil investment in that property and the city, surely they’ll have no issues finding additional investors to restore and preserve the property with no impact to their lifestyle. I’ll be eagerly awaiting their future plans for the space.

This post is exactly right….waiting for the Triangle residents to speak up and voice an opinion on how to fill the empty church or if demolition is an acceptable option… day care center? Yono’s newest restaurant? condos? Art gallery? concert hall? Those are NOT suggestions, just a quick list of possibilities….as for me, I am just going to wait for the Neighborhood to TAKE ACTION….Please respond!

Commentary and finger pointing like this are a hinderance, not a help to the neighborhood as we try to move forward. Insinuating that we have not brought ideas or helped to save the church is innacurate. We have made suggestions, and will continue to. In order to maintain a healthy working relationship with Historic Albany, and concerned city resident, the name calling and finger pointing must stop, and work must begin. There are revenue generating businesses that could work: A performance venue would have a lesser parking impact than a business like the brewery which would be open late every night of the week. A brewery without a large restuarant would also work. A doggie day care wouldn’t need parking. A community wellness center would also not have as high of a traffic and parking impact – turning the church in the seperate office spaces and inviting multiple practitioners of nutrition and yoga etc…, putting a farmer’s market into the building would solve a lot of area problems – there is no fresh food for sale within 2 miles of St. Joseph’s aside from CDCG’s veggie mobile. It could also generate a lot of revenue, and grants could be pursued. I am not going to deny that St. Joe’s is in a tough spot. Our area is zoned, residential, our streets are narrow. There are no parking lots very close to the neighborhood at all. But it’s short sited to say that the neighbors were the only hinderance to Raven’s Head. To open a restaurant the size they wanted, the zoning board required them to prove they could provide 75 parking spots. The lots they found were prohibitively expensive. This space needs positivity and innovation – not finger pointing and anger. So the first step to saving St. Joe’s now is to change the blame game that commenters like #1 and #3 are perpetuating.

This landmark has been looking for a new use for 20+ years. Every reasonable option has been thought of, and hoping for a “farmers market” or “doggy day care” isn’t going to help the cause. These types of ideas are implausible given the size and condition of the building.

It isn’t the time to start thinking of ideas – there have been 20 years of ideas. What Saint Joseph’s needs is investors with a PLAN…and soon.

TBT’s post well illustrates the irrationality of thinking the neighbors can come to any consensus (other than “No”). A brewery without a restaurant would be acceptable? Not to your many neighbors who decried delivery trucks/smells.

Farmer’s market? Deliveries/noise/vermin.
Performance venue? With the Palace and Cap Rep around the corner?

It would be great if the neighbors could do it, but it is unreasonable to expect they will because they are just that–people who live there and nothing more. They have no more insight on urban development than any random group of people.

Dearest Albany, o crusher of dreams, o killer of aspiration. We’ll love you till we leave you and shall speak of your tremendous failures as a warning to our children. Sometimes, kids, reaching too high will only lead to your hands getting cut off.

Our city leaders stabbed us, when they should have been giving us CPR.

The issue was not the parking or the noise, it was the alcohol. The proof is that anytime you hear someone suggest an alternative, that alternative would need as much parking and make as much noise as a restaurant.

Unfortunately a restaurant is the primary type of business that would benefit from a beautiful but very expensive to maintain building because visiting would be an experience (Look up the Church Bar in Ireland to see what I mean). A community center, library, or a farmer’s market will have having nothing near the ability to be able to afford the initial repairs or maintenance costs of such a building, and suggesting that it’s as simple as finding some grant money is a comment woefully ignorant of past or current grant availability. Foundations want to fund programming, not building repair, and the numbers we are talking about simply do not exist.

I know I’m being cynical but the Ten Broek neighborhood is so obsessed with parking it seems they are going to get exactly what they’ve wished for, a parking lot. This is to the detriment of the entire city historically, aesthetically and financially.

Neighbors who object to a brew pub in their midst are being short-sighted. They should read Jane Jacobs’s seminal 1961 book, “The Death and Life of Great American Cities”. Bars are a GOOD thing for a residential neighborhood. They provide late night foot traffic that cuts down on crime. Criminals do not want to be seen in their work, and stay away from areas with foot traffic, preferring single-use residential neighborhoods without what Jacobs called, “eyes on the street.”

I had three bars down the street from me in New Orleans (one was open 24 hours), and street crime was minimal. Where I live now in Pine Hills, I also have three bars down the street. Again, little street crime.

a farmers market? a day care? and who is going to pay for the repairs???? you need a successful business for that and a brewery restaurant would have created the funds necessary to maintain that magnificent but enormous building… the zoning board has failed the people that have invested in the triangle… i understand that most people living there are afraid of the property value going up and therefore the rents going up with it like they did in williamsbugh or geenpoint when they opposed the influx of Manhattanites … may be the triangle will have the appeal of those areas that are now prized and get another chance…… but…may be not… … if you are invested there it would have been a good thing to see that church taken care off…

Thanks Dylan. I have just looked at the ” church Bar, Ireland”: http://www.thechurch.ie/
it is sad that the deal fell through for the Ten Broeck residents… St Joseph might have been a fun welcoming center….