This is a discussion on Best strategy against aggressive big stacks late in a tournament? within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; Sorry for the novel, thanks in advance for reading.
Well, here lately I seem to be running into quite a few of these lately. I played

Well, here lately I seem to be running into quite a few of these lately. I played the PPA freeroll earlier today on pokerstars, and there was one guy at my table that just would not let up on trying to put me all in on any hand I was playing. He probably had about 4-1 on my chips. It eventually caused me to blind out because I rarely had anything better than top pair after the flop.

He was sitting directly to my right. I would raise pre-flop, standard 3x the big blind so as to not give away the strength of my hand. If I made any kind of a continuation bet on the flop, he would raise me enough to put me all in if I were to call his raise. I feel like I had tried to set up my image as tight-aggressive as I could, and I had not been called down bluffing, but I did tend to fold if someone bet after the flop, if it went completely the wrong direction and I would only be drawing to a pair.

These types of players seem to be the bane of my existence right now, and I really do not know what to do when I encounter them because monsters seem to be few and far between for me.

As to my experience level, I have not been playing for very long, but for what its worth, on pokerstars, I have gotten 3rd out of 1096 in a freeroll, 481 out of 19044 in a freeroll, 1st in a 10cent 360, and placed in the money maybe a dozen or so more times in the same 10 cent 360 person tournament. I've placed top 3 in a 7-15 person live game I play every week 4 out of 8 times. My poker career started around 2 months ago. I know its a very small sample size, but I do see it as just a little more than luck at this point. All NL. I also read everything I can get my hands on as far as poker is concerned.

#2

2nd August 2009, 5:01 AM

Implied Odds3 [386]

Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: HE/Razz/PLO.

call them...

You've tried folding and it hasn't worked. What do you think, they have a hand EVERY time...lol.

#3

2nd August 2009, 5:19 AM

xnihilo82 [21]

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Holdem

no I definantly dont think they have the hand everytime, but at what point do I say ok, I'll take middle pair all in if thats the case. If even felt like I had a coin flip I would call them, but my whole style (atleast while im still a beginner) is more about surviving, I really do not like to go all in very often, unless I believe I have a good chance at winning, which when I'm not catching the cards, an all-in is kinda pointless to call. A bet or raise all in I see in a bit different way.

#4

2nd August 2009, 10:40 AM

TracesOfAces [6]

Poker at: Party

Game: Holdem

wait for your moment to call them with a monster hand. Don't just call them with anything, middle pair etc. He must have noted that you folded one too many time to an all in re-raise and afterwards took advantage of the observation. I make a point of calling all in raises sometimes and sure, I lose regularly, but the upside is not only winning sometimes but also winning respect from chip bullies: Why mess with someone who calls all in re-raises when there are easier targets?

It sounds like you are playing a conservative and tight game. Nothing wrong with that except that you leave yourself open to be targeted by chip bullies. Too many persons make the mistake of playing to win most times they play without taking enough risks. Once you realise that even the best players can't win even half the time they play tournaments, sit n goes etc., you should then become more relaxed in your play, and more willing to take chances and go with what happens... There's always another game to play! Meanwhile - make a stand sometimes with any of the other players at the table, not necessarily the bully, and watch what happens.

#5

2nd August 2009, 11:13 AM

davidshoval [32]

IMO you can call them with mid pair and you will win and you have to take the risk to win the tournament.
GL.

#6

6th August 2009, 8:58 PM

M33K3R [387]

Poker at: FTP and PS

Game: NLHE and PLO

re: Poker & Best strategy against aggressive big stacks late in a tournament?

I agree that calling with middle pair and even top pair bad kicker. If you are really short you could call if you have a draw and the correct odds.

#7

6th August 2009, 9:34 PM

kidkvno1 [12,513]

Online Poker at: PS play cash

Game: holdem

They may back off if you reraise them, i have done that and it seams to work, i have also shoved all-in on them to.
If they know you will fold, they will reraise you.

Do you notice that the bully takes advantage of anyone else at the table?

If he's really picking on just you than you do need a look at your play and consider loosening up a little.

#9

7th August 2009, 3:18 AM

xnihilo82 [21]

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panamajoe

Do you notice that the bully takes advantage of anyone else at the table?

If he's really picking on just you than you do need a look at your play and consider loosening up a little.

I have noticed it both ways, but I made this particular post after one guy in particular was irritating me. The more I think about this though, I think it more boils down to how easily I can go on tilt from someone like that, because everyone's answers have been logical, something that I feel I should think of when I am at the table. But I am letting these guys get to me, so I'm not seeing the answers that are right in front of me. Thanks guys.

#10

7th August 2009, 3:57 AM

ukaliks [1,284]

Poker at: Tilt

Game: Monopoly

MP or TP u've gotta make a stand and call him sometimes. Most of the time he's gonna miss the board so ur gettin vaule even with MP m8.

But ive been experimenting with tourne poker and that if the guy to ur right is a little bit loose and likes to raise then use any 2 cards and re-raise him x3/x3.5/x4 to put him off his hand yet to p!ss him off. it's a beaut when u do this a few times then u get AA or KK and u re-raise him again only to see him snap and make a stand n u call so quickly that all ur work pays off.
I think ppl do this to p!ss ppl off plus to make u decide to put ur chips in. be the one making the descions not calling them.

#11

7th August 2009, 11:49 AM

Lazmansa [556]

Online Poker at: fulltilt

Game: holdem

U must also keep in mind when playing these freerolls,there will be hundreds of players like that person who goes all in all the time.

That is how thay got those chips ,buy getting lucky.I would definatly call with a A high Or K high,if u loose there are always lots more freerolls.

But u must always expect there to be at least 1 all in Noob per table and it is urealistic to expect players in freerolls to respect your raises.

my advice is to limp if u want to see the flop,or if u have AA KK QQ AK,rase and expect for some one to go all in.only rase if u are willing to go all in.

It is a lottery in freerolls so dont warry about it,it isnt a good reflection on how good poker is played.

hope i have made scence mate

Lazmansa

#12

7th August 2009, 12:01 PM

josh_dei8 [252]

Poker at: full tilt

Game: holdem

re: Poker & Best strategy against aggressive big stacks late in a tournament?

Well, it being a freeroll, there are people that are going to shove the whole way through a tourney cause they are actually clueless on how to play.

#13

7th August 2009, 12:08 PM

josh_dei8 [252]

Online Poker at: full tilt

Game: holdem

wasnt ready for that to print yet. But you need to be ready to fire at him and take his chips. I love to watch for the bullies. Set him up when you get the monster or make a push at him with a good drawing hand Just like you, he is not holding a monster or the goods each time he his pushing at you.

#14

7th August 2009, 10:54 PM

kidkvno1 [12,513]

Poker at: PS play cash

Game: holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukaliks

MP or TP u've gotta make a stand and call him sometimes. Most of the time he's gonna miss the board so ur gettin vaule even with MP m8.

But ive been experimenting with tourne poker and that if the guy to ur right is a little bit loose and likes to raise then use any 2 cards and re-raise him x3/x3.5/x4 to put him off his hand yet to p!ss him off. it's a beaut when u do this a few times then u get AA or KK and u re-raise him again only to see him snap and make a stand n u call so quickly that all ur work pays off.
I think ppl do this to p!ss ppl off plus to make u decide to put ur chips in. be the one making the descions not calling them.

^^^ I have done it and it works, Also if you can trap him on trips. This will make him rethink about pushing on you.

#15

8th August 2009, 2:10 PM

poker d player [534]

Online Poker at: ????

Game: HORSE

One good trap is all it will take to take him from big bully to a shortstack. And ohhhh will it feel good to do it. If you're sucessfull he'll think twice about pushing you any more.... and if he does ... just do it again.

#16

8th August 2009, 4:19 PM

skinzfan1 [8]

Poker at: Bodog

Game: Hold 'em

What I normally do is tighten up just a smidge, and then come out with a standard raise when I have what I believe is a really good starting hand (med to high PP, AK or AQ, etc). Be ready to risk all your chips when the bully raises you all in... you may cripple him and thus end his bully session.
The absolute worst thing to do is keep raising and then folding to his all ins. In effect you are steadily throwing more money in his stack, and feeding his cycle of stupidity.
Pick a hand - and be ready to ride it home. Idiots like that can really propel you to victory if your hands hold up against them.

#17

10th August 2009, 10:00 AM

RichKo [634]

Online Poker at: FT, UB

Game: holdem

Don't forget too, once the blinds get huge, you should be shoving alot more, whether it be a steal or you have a monster. Especially when your stack gets smaller. And also if you still think you have enough chips to not have to shove, but the rest of the table,(or even a couple of bullies) have much larger stacks, you might have to shove, or even shove as a reraise, so you have enough fold equity. Even if your cards suck. Once your stack gets too low, you won't be able to get people off a hand if they only have to call a little more. And if you get caught...which you probably will, cause freerolls are full or doofs, just laugh when your opponent says How can you go all in w/ that hand when the donk calls you w/ K6 or something stupid like that.

#18

10th August 2009, 3:11 PM

witl69 [425]

Poker at: poker stars

Game: omaha hi/lo

re: Poker & Best strategy against aggressive big stacks late in a tournament?

I love to see players like this personally because usualy if your a rather slow and calculateing player which in my school of thought is some of the best kind of online poker players then you know. Play them a little passive aggressive here call when you got some connectors dont just wait for a pocket monster and sure they might get lucky every now and again but so will you. ALso, if you play them this way they cant then put you on a monster hand every tijme you bet or raise on them. Good luck see you on the felt.

#19

10th August 2009, 4:03 PM

SavagePenguin [7,579]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: NLH

I don't know if the OP will return, but I think some very important things have been omitted from this discussion.

First off, a 3xBB opening bet late in a tournament is too much. I do that early, but later you can knock it down to 2.5xBB, because the decreased bet size will not change his likelihood to fold/call/raise and will let you fold a hand cheaper.
Most good players I see do this sort of thing later in the tournaments. When I see people still betting 3xBB or 4xBB late in a tournament I assume they're playing ABC poker (usually pretty tight and uncreative).

Second, your moves are dictated by your chip stack relative to the blinds and antes. Dan Harrington does a good job explaining this in Harrington on Hold'em Volume II. Basically, when your chip stack will last you 10 rounds you are in trouble and have to make significant adjustments to your game. Drawing hands like suited connectors lost much of their value because your stack isn't deep enough to make hitting your draw worth it. So really, you tighten up and look for a spot to double up.
When your stack will last 5 rounds you are in deep trouble. You *need* to double up, even if that means getting it all in with an inferior hand. Any face card in an unchallenged pot is shovable.
Basically, folding a couple rounds at this point, then doubling, will put you right back in this desperate situation. But doubling now will get you back o an "M" of 10 which buys you five more rounds of folding to catch something significant.

So, when someone on your right with 4x your chip stack keeps putting you all in, bide your time until you're forced to make a move. If he's shoving consistantly pre-flop look to call with King/T+, or A/7+ or 8/8+ and those type of hands, *or* any face card if your stack can only last 5 more rounds.
He is overplaying his hands, so you need to wait for the right time to exploit that. But you can only wait so long.

#20

10th August 2009, 5:41 PM

xnihilo82 [21]

Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Holdem

Im definantly still here, just reading and absorbing as much as I can. I have been calling more often now, sometimes to my detriment, but for the most part I've collected my fair share of chips from those big stacks.

#21

11th August 2009, 1:07 AM

doops [669]

Online Poker at: FullTilt

Game: Limit holdem

I'm like you, I suppose. I like to be the one to be the aggressor. And dealing with the hyper-aggro bigstacks is a pain. It takes guts, it does, to risk your tourney life on someone else's whim. But sometimes, with a strong hand, just do it. Yes you will bust out a certain percentage of the time. And often to a worse hand. So what? There's another tourney coming up. Bullies will walk all over you if you let them, and if you have one at the table, be prepared to go all-in with any hand you raise. The interesting thing is, if you win, others will start playing back at the bully, too -- and he will either change or bust out.

i just pick my hands and say. ok , i am slow playin ak or what ever your hand is and tell your self. i am check calling to the river no matter what.... gl .....

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnihilo82

Sorry for the novel, thanks in advance for reading.

Well, here lately I seem to be running into quite a few of these lately. I played the PPA freeroll earlier today on pokerstars, and there was one guy at my table that just would not let up on trying to put me all in on any hand I was playing. He probably had about 4-1 on my chips. It eventually caused me to blind out because I rarely had anything better than top pair after the flop.

He was sitting directly to my right. I would raise pre-flop, standard 3x the big blind so as to not give away the strength of my hand. If I made any kind of a continuation bet on the flop, he would raise me enough to put me all in if I were to call his raise. I feel like I had tried to set up my image as tight-aggressive as I could, and I had not been called down bluffing, but I did tend to fold if someone bet after the flop, if it went completely the wrong direction and I would only be drawing to a pair.

These types of players seem to be the bane of my existence right now, and I really do not know what to do when I encounter them because monsters seem to be few and far between for me.

As to my experience level, I have not been playing for very long, but for what its worth, on pokerstars, I have gotten 3rd out of 1096 in a freeroll, 481 out of 19044 in a freeroll, 1st in a 10cent 360, and placed in the money maybe a dozen or so more times in the same 10 cent 360 person tournament. I've placed top 3 in a 7-15 person live game I play every week 4 out of 8 times. My poker career started around 2 months ago. I know its a very small sample size, but I do see it as just a little more than luck at this point. All NL. I also read everything I can get my hands on as far as poker is concerned.

#23

13th August 2009, 6:29 PM

Goodwooter [185]

Online Poker at: FTP

Game: Holdem

once you are down to about 15 bbs...you have to take a pair and run with it...once you have doubled up if you can win the coin toss...you will feel much more comfortable making calls and playing back at these aggressive players