*yawn*....let it go Mr Phillips. Life's too short to waste it being full of
hate. Move on, find a hobby that's productive. Try working with animals
(very therapeutic) or growing a garden (healthful and therapeutic). Doing
something productive will give you good vibes and positive energy.

We are here on earth to do our best to do what our Heavenly Father asks us to
do. Tithing is a sacrifice for some of us. But aren't we really just trying
to understand in a very infinitesimal degree the great and infinite sacrifice
the Savior made for all of us. We are in school of sorts, being taught by our
experiences and choices. If you want to be able to practice medicine as a
physician it is required that you receive and are proficient by schooling and
training-- if as Christ has ask us to "be ye therefore perfect , even as
your Father in Heaven is perfect" then we no doubt, progress to do that by
choosing to obey His commandments-- we can't become like Him unless we walk
as He walked, sacrifice as he sacrificed ( in our own small way) learn, grow, be
obedient to the Master teacher so that we too, can one day be like Him. Enduring
to the end as Paul was successful in doing, is not easy-- we just have to keep
doing our very best and Christ will make up the difference in His own way and
time.

"Losers Pay" law is in force in England where the Plaintiff pays for the
attorney costs of the defendant if he loses.

Since this was
dismissed on the basis that the court felt the suit as an attack on religious
principles, and that no court in the Britain would allow such a question of
religious believe to be put before the court, the plaintiff will pay for the
attorney's costs. That is the case in most of the world, but not in the
United States.

In the US, and only in Texas where a recently passed
bill which was signed by Governor Rick Perry in which a party brings a suit and
loses, will he have to pay the other parties attorney's fees if he
loses.

The "trial court attorney's" is a very strong
lobby in the US, but people are getting fed up with frivolous cases, and in
states which do not have the Texas law, in the judges discretion, he/she can
require that the Plaintiff pay for the attorney's costs. But, this is only
in each individual case.

I have not felt guilty or remorseful for one single second
for not paying tithing. Since I stopped I have been blessed immensely. That is
why I believe that no blessings are tied to tithing. It is independent of any
blessings that come your way in life.

The only surprising thing is that it took so long to come to this outcome.

The accusations had no clear connection to tithing. The issues would
have required inquiry into religious belies and an attempt to determine their
validity. The whole idea was bizarre and unwise. This case will probably lead to
a decision in England to end alloance of private prosecutions.

Elizabeth Roscoe should be disciplined for this blatant disregard for good
judicial proceedings in issuing the initial findings. I also hope that contempt
of court is found on Phillips and he is made to pay all the costs of this
massive, over the top, freedom threatening legal action.

Phillips unlimited hate in not even referring to a church as a Church is a sign
of people who avoid anything that even approaches good dialogue. Phillips is
very representative of those people who seem to want to drive wedges between
people, and engage in toxic dialogue. The world is a better place the less
attention he gets. His rhetoric is toxic and divisive and the worst possible
thing for the creation of good will.

Philips makes no claims that the teaching of tithing itself is fraudulent, so
anyone who thinks this somehow links to Philips claims is ignorant of them. The
shocking thing is that he made any progress with these claims, which were just
as bizarre and down right off the wall as the tithing claim. His claim with
relation to the martyrdom of Joseph Smith is probably the most bizarre one,
mainly because it is built around deliberately misrepresenting statements of
Church leaders, ad trying to create a new case of criminal fraud that would
stifle almost all speech.

Philips victory would have a much greater
negative impact on free speech than it would on freedom of religion. He seeks a
world where you have to speak in a way that agrees to someone elses narrow
definition of truth or face criminal penalties. That is very scary for all
freedoms.

People seem to have trouble with a little understanding as to what commandments
are for. I know you anti-mormon types don't like us to use scripture that
you don't believe in, but it seems to help to make the point. In Doctrine
and Covenants 82 it states, 8 And again, I say unto you, I give unto you a new
commandment, that you may understand my will concerning you;

9 Or, in
other words, I give unto you directions how you may act before me, that it may
turn to you for your salvation.

Basically those things that He tells
us to do are there to help us to understand Him a little better. I do realize
that sacrificing a little of my income to help others barely even scratches the
surface on the amount of sacrifice that my Lord and Savior, but it helps me to
understand Him just a little bit more.

Also, I'm not quite
sure that I understand why it bothers you so much about what I do with my money.

I do not see it as the source of a specific temporal
blessing much more or less than the other commandments.

I always
think we fail to read the question to which the oft quoted verses (starting with
8) are an answer.

The question is found in verse 7: "Even from
the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not
kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts.
But ye said, Wherein shall we return?"

Tithing is a principle
given to help Israel return to the Lord (and we to Him). Perhaps it also helps
to keep our hearts from straying "For where your treasure is, there will
your heart be also."

The Lord has promised that as we pay tithing that we will be blessed beyond
measure. We are also told that we were also not have certain things until after
the test of our faith. I too have seen many who don't pay tithing gets
lots of tithing and those that do get lots of trials. It reminds me of Job who
went through all types of test just so Satan could test his diligence. After
the test of his faith he received everything two fold. The same is said for
those who say I don't pay tithing and I get lots of blessing. As Elder
Oaks has taught 100 income and no blessings is always less than 10% of income
plus blessing. Sometimes we don't what those blessings are until we
actually sit down and see them. In my life since I started paying an honest
tithe I've not been want for anything. This who legal thing was nothing
more than trying to prove something that can't be proven.

LDS don't believe tithing saves them & many Christian leaders believe
in "tithing" donations etc. and bemoan the fact that some
"Christians" reject almost all of the commandments (see quote below). On
topic: TomP's case was not just silly and based on bogus claims, it was
also bullying, hateful, and greedy. (Read Tom quotes on FAIRlds). It's sad that so called "Christians" would support this guy and
his tall tales. Anti-mormons have been trying to prove the Church is false
for nearly 200 years, all have failed, and always will, even if they find an
anti-mormon Judge to go along with it. : )

A good video for those
rejecting tithing is "Why Giving Matters" by Arthur C. Brooks, he's
Catholic. From Ronald J. Sider on beliefnet& Scandal of the
Evangelical Conscience “Only six percent of born-again Christians give the
traditional tithe..And when it comes to racism, Lord have
mercy…evangelicals were more racist than everybody else....poll after
poll.."that evangelical Christians are as likely to embrace lifestyles every
bit as hedonistic, materialistic, self-centered, and sexually immoral as the
world in general."

So just to clarify, you think that the vast majority of the
world who aren't mormon and don't pay tithing don't get
blessings? That is a bold claim, and I don't think for one second that it
is true. Because the promise the lord gives is so vague (blessed beyond
measure), that you could consider and count any good luck as a
'blessing' when you pay tithing. Conversely, you could easily use any
bad luck example of a non tithe payer as a trial for not having paid tithing. So
many people don't pay tithing and have full, rich (blessed) lives, and I
have seen so many people pay tithing and keep having bad things happen to them
over and over. So the lord's vague promise can't be counted as a
realistic one. Especially because the lord gave the tithing commandment to a
group of people in the bible over 2,500 years ago (if at all).

@A1994 "The tithes that are collected by the church are accounted for and
used much more efficiently than the collections of other Christian
denominations."

Every non-LDS church I have been part of
publishes a full line item budget for the coming year and a full line-item
financial report of all income and all spending during the previous year. It is
printed and available to all members.

If memory serves, an LDS
Church leader at General Conference declares that accountants have looked at the
records and all are in order. No details and nothing is published - you just
have to believe everything is fine and wonderful.

I prefer a whole
lot more transparency in my financial reports.

As far as
"efficient use" - by what standard? I am currently a member of a UU
church that has a skilled and knowledgeable professional staff, a wonderful
building that is in almost constant use by community groups for positive causes,
and members who are engaged in good works in the community in a wide range of
causes. I am not sure how much more efficient you can get.

Unwise depends on
your perspective. If Phillip's goal was to win the lawsuit, it probably
was, although even at that the church had to pay its own legal fees. If his
goal was to get some unfavorable press for the church and wake some more people
up that probably happened.

No one ever claimed that non-believers who
don't pay tithing don't receive blessings. There are all types of
blessings that people can receive that are unrelated to the paying of tithes.
But those who don't pay tithes don't receive the specific blessings
related to that particular commandment. And those who pay tithes with the wrong
attitude miss out on blessings as well. It's a fact.Put the Lord to
the test and try it. And if you do it correctly, you'll discover blessings
you never previously knew existed.

@ DocHolliday:

It
seems pretty obvious from your statements that even if you previously did
actually pay tithing, you did it with the wrong attitude and for the wrong
reasons. Otherwise, the blessings you would've received would vastly
outweigh those you still receive when not paying tithes per God's
commandment. As explained above, people can and do receive blessings
unrelated to the paying of tithes. But it's impossible to receive the
specific blessings related to the paying of tithes without actually doing so,
and with a spirit of love toward your fellowman. Literally all tithe money is
used to benefit mankind.

We receive some blessings now, but many of them are unseen and not related to
this mortal existence as we see it. The greatest blessings will come after our
mortal existence. We pray for our families to be protected and blessed but are
we always aware of being protected? I believe that we are protected and blessed
in ways that we don't even realize or understand right now. Mortality is
brief -- "life eternal" with God is forever.

@Stormwalker:Have you ever hear of embezzlement, i.e. one set of books to
show where the money goes and one set of where the money REALLY goes. I am not
saying that you religions do that. I am saying that, when you have faith, it is
a more powerful force than paper...

See "Why Giving Matters" to learn some of many wonderful things about
LDS tithing. Brooks was president of the American Enterprise Institute and is
Catholic. As for Phillips and Co., Mormons who think don't try to
destroy faith, reason, or innocent people. Thinking Mormons know the Book of
Abraham and Book of Mormon are miraculous and historical. And the logical,
spiritual, religious, etc. evidence supports that. And, after nearly 200
years of trying to prove these books are false, none- not the educated critic or
the ranting haters, or anyone in between- no one has been able to find a fatal
flaw in either book, and each critical claim has fallen or will fall.

The valid evidence indicates that LDS scriptures are the word of God, AND are
Historical. And Joseph Smith could not have known the truths in them without
God's help. This includes the books accurately giving names,
symbols, places, customs, cultures, geography, predictions etc. etc. unknown to
JS or his associates.

So, Critics, be thankful that God guides and
gives, smile and do something worthwhile : ). The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS
does great good, and brings happiness to those humble enough to heed.