Share:

About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

Wow- that is bad. We should have a new national sales tax- maybe 3%- and dedicate it to fixing infrastructure. It should include everything except food. We could add another 5% to go into a stimulus fund to be used to get us out of this coming depression. I’m sure it would pay for itself over time. Building infrastructure provides good family wage jobs and lots of opportunity to return political favors. Win, win.

Wow- that is bad. We should have a new national sales tax- maybe 3%- and dedicate it to fixing infrastructure. It should include everything except food. We could add another 5% to go into a stimulus fund to be used to get us out of this coming depression. I’m sure it would pay for itself over time. Building infrastructure provides good family wage jobs and lots of opportunity to return political favors. Win, win.

Sometimes when I read a Scotsman post, I speculate that either:
1. Nancy Pelosi, Jim McDermott, Bernie Sanders, and Greg Nickels have kidnapped Scotsman and threatened to kill him and all his loved ones unless he sounds like a liberal once in a while.
2. His tongue is planted formly in his cheek, or
3. Pfft has stolen his identity, and is posting as Scotsman.

RE:Ira Sacharoff @ 5 – Pelosi and pfft are a lot alike. Both think the government can force insurance companies to pay money out to their customers and that it doesn’t affect the customers in the end!

My new favorite is apparently Obamacare prevents insurance companies from charging rates based on gender. Thus my wife and I pay the exact same rate, which didn’t used to be the case. Pelosi describes that as a great benefit. What it really means is that some are now paying more so that others can pay less. There is no overall benefit to anyone. Congress just decided that one gender would win and one would lose.

Wow- that is bad. We should have a new national sales tax- maybe 3%- and dedicate it to fixing infrastructure. It should include everything except food. We could add another 5% to go into a stimulus fund to be used to get us out of this coming depression. I’m sure it would pay for itself over time. Building infrastructure provides good family wage jobs and lots of opportunity to return political favors. Win, win.

do you know that 1/3 of the stimulus you hate was infrastructure spending? Another 1/3 was tax cuts…

RE:Ira Sacharoff @ 5 – Pelosi and pfft are a lot alike. Both think the government can force insurance companies to pay money out to their customers and that it doesn’t affect the customers in the end!

that’s why the inusurance companies wanted a mandate silly. it spreads costs out over a larger pool. w/o the mandate, which the insurance companies wanted, the rest of the bill’s provisions would make costs go too high.

you should just just be lucky that stupid people pay the same rates as everyone else…

This is not nearly enough- bridges are collapsing, people are dying from all sorts of things, pets are hungry because Grams is eating kitty’s food.

We need a keystroke tax, say $.001 per letter. The rich, who can afford to spend lots of time on their computers- like Kary- will pay more while those who work will pay less. All microsofties (rich), conservative bloggers (even richer!) and federal and state employees- not busy watching porn- (really rich- with benefits!) will finally pay their fair share.

Can investors in financial instruments whose price depends on the Libor rate join in class action lawsuits against Barclay’s and other banks that rigged the Libor rate?

I haven’t followed that story, but I don’t see why not. The problem I would see is most such investors probably profited just as often as they lost.

Also, I’m not so sure it’s actionable, because again I haven’t followed the story. It may be yet another story that is total nonsense, like how speculators drive up the price of oil. Or it may be something that is real, but perfectly legal. Let’s say for example that you had an entity with a large exposure to options in Widget, Co. Anything below $35 on August 21 and they lose a ton of money. Would it be actionable if on August 21 at the close they started buying a lot of Widget Co. stock to make sure the price closes above $35? I don’t think so.

In the few short days since Barclays was fined $453 million for its role in the LIBOR interest rate fixing scandal, Diamond, an American with a stratospheric pay package, came to symbolize everything wrong with international banking.

From what people post here on the Seattle Bubble it seems to me that the idea International Banking is corrupt still needs to be proved.

My question would be how long it will take before the full impact of International Banking strategy becomes clear, globally. My particular interest is in the Third World where credit is still a new concept, and those investors who still see bank stock as a good investment.

This is not nearly enough- bridges are collapsing, people are dying from all sorts of things, pets are hungry because Grams is eating kitty’s food.

We need a keystroke tax, say $.001 per letter. The rich, who can afford to spend lots of time on their computers- like Kary- will pay more while those who work will pay less. All microsofties (rich), conservative bloggers (even richer!) and federal and state employees- not busy watching porn- (really rich- with benefits!) will finally pay their fair share.

u still mad bro?

what about the tens to hundreds of billions of tax breaks?

what about all the people that will have coverage, won’t go bankrupt, won’t lose their home and more importantly won’t lose their life?

Class action lawsuits on the way. Not to worry, as taxpayers are backstopping the fraud. If banks get into trouble, the gov borrows more and keystroke transfers the money to the banks. And interest rates stay low forever to allow taxpayers the privelege of paying the banks to borrow taxpayer money.

“Traders in London, New York, Japan and elsewhere colluded to manipulate the Libor rate so as to make massive profits or conceal losses, at the direct expense of pension funds and mortgage and loan holders.”

“Meanwhile, the British Conservative/Liberal Democrat government has done nothing other than promise yet another toothless parliamentary inquiry—the standard mechanism for burying every crime of the ruling elite from the Iraq war to the News of the World phone hacking scandal.

The reasons are obvious. Far more than a few dozen traders are involved. The 16 banks cited in the class action taken by the City of Baltimore, Charles Schwab Corp. and others include Barclays, RBS, HSBC, Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, UBS and Deutsche Bank.

Their respective heads will all claim ignorance of the practices conducted by their traders, despite some of those directly involved saying they were acting under orders.”

“The 16 banks cited in the class action taken by the City of Baltimore, Charles Schwab Corp. and others include Barclays, RBS, HSBC, Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, UBS and Deutsche Bank.”

This will be an interesting election. Besides the presidential race, WA elects a new Governor, and there’s been redistricting for some congressional districts. I got booted out of Jim McDermott’s district and am now in Adam Smith’s. I was a little tired of Jim ” Congressman for Life” McDermott anyway. There’s also a couple of issues on the ballot in this state that don’t usually come up for a vote. One is to ratify the state legislature’s legalizing of gay marriage. It doesn’t bother me if gays and lesbians want to get married, and I’m not sure this is something the people ought to be allowed to vote on.
Another issue on the ballot in this state will be the legalization of marijuana for recreational use. Even if it passes, it’s still against federal law. Still, it would probably be good for the state’s coffers if it were sold in as many outlets as hard liquor currently is( Walgreens, Fred Meyer, Costco, Rite Aid, and Target are all selling booze.) It’s ahead in the polls, but if it’s going to pass it’ll require a bunch of stoners to mail their ballots in on time.

“Little by little, the home of the brave and the land of the free has become a nation of rent-seeking dependents clamoring for their share of state largess. Even before the latest entitlement blowout called Obamacare, we crossed the line where more than half of Americans receive some kind of assistance from the government every month, paid for by the fewer than half that still pay income taxes. As we move into the future and the number of dependents grows while the taxpayer pool shrinks, we call the result social justice rather than its old name: theft.”

This will be an interesting election. Besides the presidential race, WA elects a new Governor, and there’s been redistricting for some congressional districts. I got booted out of Jim McDermott’s district and am now in Adam Smith’s. I was a little tired of Jim ” Congressman for Life” McDermott anyway.

Being represented by McDermott is like not being represented at all, IMHO. He’s so extreme he can’t bargain to sway any results with his vote.

What I’m talking about is the type of thing Justice Roberts is accused of doing. Switching his vote on one issue to set up future issues which are deemed more important.

SAN JOSE, California (AP) – A jury acquitted a U.S. man Thursday of assaulting a Wall Street vice president he says destroyed his income and employment opportunities and left him with tormented memories that led to alcohol abuse, depression and suicide attempts.

William Lynch had acknowledged punching Jerold Lindner several times on May 10, 2010 at a retirement home, but he pleaded not guilty.

Lynch has said he hoped to use the case to publicly shame Lindner and bring further attention to Wall Street fraud.

1.) to show that “vigilante justice” is acceptable by society under certain conditions

2.) to counter the irrelevant links recently provided by Kary.

The point is that if Wall Street execs through greed and fraud are creating conditions that cause folks pain, suffering and loss of wealth and earnings opportunities, destryoing familes and individuals, and that the justice system is not upholding the law, that in furstration, people may take the law into their own hands.

Note the prescient Supreme Court justice Lewis Brandeis: ” The very existence of the government is imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously.”

As Brandeis puts it, “”The government is the potent omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that the end justifies the means — to declare that the government may commit crimes — would bring terrible retribution.”

In this case, the only plausible defense by the government would be that it is necessary to tolerate Wall Street fraud to support a bankrupt financial system. And that is a charitable explanation. Ends justifies the means – see Brandeis.

“Little by little, the home of the brave and the land of the free has become a nation of rent-seeking dependents clamoring for their share of state largess. Even before the latest entitlement blowout called Obamacare, we crossed the line where more than half of Americans receive some kind of assistance from the government every month, paid for by the fewer than half that still pay income taxes. As we move into the future and the number of dependents grows while the taxpayer pool shrinks, we call the result social justice rather than its old name: theft.”

having to purchase health insurance is an entitlement program? I guess you aren’t up on the times. Mitt Romney said it was about personal responsibility and so did the Heritage Foundation which originally came up with the plan. it was also pushed by Republicans as an alternative to Hillarycare. It’s a conservative plan.

“we crossed the line where more than half of Americans receive some kind of assistance from the government every month, paid for by the fewer than half that still pay income taxes.”

completly not true. Half of federal revenue is the income tax which about half of the people don’t pay into because they don’t qualify. however, a lot of those people pay SS taxes which is regressive and accounts for the OTHER half of federal revenue. A big chunk of the welfare system is SS which people DO pay for. Forbes sucks. don’t read it. it’s literally bought and paid for and subscribed to by the 1%.

“Little by little, the home of the brave and the land of the free has become a nation of rent-seeking dependents clamoring for their share of state largess. Even before the latest entitlement blowout called Obamacare, we crossed the line where more than half of Americans receive some kind of assistance from the government every month, paid for by the fewer than half that still pay income taxes. As we move into the future and the number of dependents grows while the taxpayer pool shrinks, we call the result social justice rather than its old name: theft.”

This is something that really bothers me because anyone who’s ever done a lick of work knows that they are taxed, and taxed pretty well for SSI and medicare, the two largest of those “government assistance” programs. People who have worked in their own businesses know even better because they get hammered with the full SEP tax.

So whenever I read the argument that implies these are paid from income taxes, I always have to ask myself: Is this person merely a hypocrite, truly unacquainted with working for a living and yet bleating about others getting money without work? Or is this person fundamentally dishonest?

All they have to do is kill off the British, and they have all of this free stuff.

What I love about America, more than any other country on earth, is that it was founded by criminals. These guys broke the law, then came up new laws to suit themselves, and the kicker is they claimed it was the Christian thing to do.

Now it wasn’t the Catholic Inquisition kind of Christian thing to do like in Central, and South America, it was the pious kind of we are going to church on Sunday so it will be OK.

These people were Bible thumping criminals, who stole, made up laws, killed off people who got in the way, and lived the high life with free land.

In Europe, and Asia they may hold the record for murder in the name of war, but here, we got fancy pants white collar criminals who wrote up the laws, and sorry, but you are stuck with that.

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

General Welfare, and Common Defence, get used to it, work towards it, and if it’s a problem, there are other places on earth that will be glad to take your money.

RE:David Losh @ 32 – If you want to talk about bad things in our past to get things, how about what we did to the Native Americans? Today that would be called genocide and war crimes. That was much more recent than 1776.

Still though a situation where I don’t accept either the Democratic or Republican spin. It’s not the the recession was so bad, or that the stimulus was bad. It’s that the President was notoriously anti-business. His rhetoric while he was learning on the job inhibited growth. Romney should run on that, because it would fit right in with his business credentials.

Anyway…
Let’s turn to Obama on monthly jobs numbers three and half years into his term:

“You guys are bright enough to look at the numbers. I came in and the jobs had been just falling right off a cliff, I came in and they kept falling for 11 months. And if you are going to suggest to me that somehow the day I got elected, somehow jobs should have immediately turned around, well that would be silly. It takes awhile to get things turned around. We were in a recession, we were losing jobs every month.”

“Journatic freelancer Ryan Smith told This American Life that he reworked pieces written by foreigners who were paid a pittance for their trouble and that he had written his own stories for papers in places he had never visited.”

RE:uwp @ 35 – Clearly what President Obama stepped into would take some time to fix, but at 3.5 years in it’s too late to still be blaming the situation and blaming others.

The Republican spin was that the stimulus did nothing. Clearly it did something, but my point is that if President Obama had stepped into a good economy and used the same anti-business rhetoric, we’d have soon been having economic problems. Business is not the enemy, unless your goal is to have everyone on public assistance.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 37 –
Corporate earnings continue to come in at record highs. You keep suggesting that Obama is bad for business. Maybe he mouths anti business platitudes to feed his base, but how, exactly, is he bad for business? Yes, unemployment is high, but how much of that is attributable to American corporations either operating foreign factories or outsourcing?
Maybe Obama is anti labor, not anti business.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 37 –
Corporate earnings continue to come in at record highs. You keep suggesting that Obama is bad for business. Maybe he mouths anti business platitudes to feed his base, but how, exactly, is he bad for business? .

Business doesn’t take as much risk, because they fear being his next target. It’s easier to sit back and do what they’ve been doing, and not expand to new areas or new projects.

Again I’ll mention Chase. They have a loss which is large in nominal terms, but which won’t even keep them from earning a profit this quarter. Their CEO gets drug in front of Congress to testify.

Also, just limiting it to AIG, his rhetoric has hurt the sale of the various entities AIG owns, even though the government is a major shareholder in AIG. But for that rhetoric, those companies would be free of AIG, performing better and employing more people. And there the President’s rhetoric did cause employees to fear for their own safety, by saying the types of things which feed the emotions of those like Bluntman here. Executives in other companies do not want that to happen to them, so they take fewer risks.

Finally, years of pushing for tax increases has had the effect of reducing investment, without any of the benefits that actually increasing taxes would have provided. It’s incredibly stupid pandering to voters.

It is a deflationary depression, and is being used to gain political advantage. While Rome burns. And it becomes even more obvious that policies enacted by “leaders” like the Bernank are not working. But never discount the overwheling desire to kick the can. It’s gotta be better than the truth.

RE:David Losh @ 41 – Our founding fathers were terrorists, using the criteria of the Bush-Cheney crime family. It all depends on who writes the history books and who brainwashes the kids. Even today, on one of the free Seattle TV channels, you can see a propaganda cartoon aimed at kids that communicates lies about how America was started. What would happen if we told the kids the truth? That is is OK to kill for land and resources, and that we still do this today? Based upon the rising depression rates in the USA, I think everyone knows already.

Bush was the CEO president, how’d that work out? obama had the stimulus, banks bailouts and he rescued the auto industry and by extension the midwest. congress won’t pass his jobs bill, that’s the problem.

People hire because the phone is ringing. your explanation is nonsense as I’ve explained many times before.

please though explain exactly how you came to that conclusion and tell me how many jobs the president’s supposed anti-business rhetoric is costing us.

we simply have a lack of demand. business is doing ok, they have record profits.

RE:uwp @ 35 – Clearly what President Obama stepped into would take some time to fix, but at 3.5 years in it’s too late to still be blaming the situation and blaming others.

The Republican spin was that the stimulus did nothing. Clearly it did something, but my point is that if President Obama had stepped into a good economy and used the same anti-business rhetoric, we’d have soon been having economic problems. Business is not the enemy, unless your goal is to have everyone on public assistance.

because he’s the food stamp president right?

I’ve told you this before but you really don’t seem to listen or remember ANYTHING. the economy recovers slowly after a financial crisis. If Congress would pass Obama’s jobs act we could get somewhere. this is a demand problem.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 37 –
Corporate earnings continue to come in at record highs. You keep suggesting that Obama is bad for business. Maybe he mouths anti business platitudes to feed his base, but how, exactly, is he bad for business? .

Business doesn’t take as much risk, because they fear being his next target. It’s easier to sit back and do what they’ve been doing, and not expand to new areas or new projects.

5 million jobs have been added the last 2 years. studies show the number one concern of business is demand.

It is a deflationary depression, and is being used to gain political advantage. While Rome burns. And it becomes even more obvious that policies enacted by “leaders” like the Bernank are not working. But never discount the overwheling desire to kick the can. It’s gotta be better than the truth.

Bernanke’s policies are working he’s just not doing enough. He’s too cautious.

The four horsemen of the sluggish economy – Total credit market debt above $55 trillion, few jobs for many unemployed, the student debt bubble, and long-term compression of wages.

The US economy is facing tremendous financial hurdles in the years to come. The current market is being held together by a flood of debt that is masking underlying issues. Total credit market debt is many times larger than our annual GDP. Student loan debt continues to expand unabated even though the return-on-investment for many college degrees is not worth it. We also have an interesting dynamic where we still do produce manufactured goods but require fewer and fewer workers to conduct these jobs. These challenges will not go away when the last ballot is cast this November. We also have big challenges of taking care of an older generation with a much less affluent and deeply in debt younger generation.

No, he followed the Bush bail out policies that were put in place before he took office.

We now know that Obama should have let the banks fend for themselves, and let GM go into bankruptcy, and stay there to be sold off.

China today is a very good example of what is happening globally. China cut interest rates for the second time in a month and are now concerned about Real Estate speculation taking advantage of that rather than the rate cuts boosting the manufacturing sector.

“Nobody has gone to jail since the financial crisis. The banks, they do things that are illegal and at best they slap on them a fine. If some people end up in jail, maybe that will teach a lesson to somebody. Or somebody hanging in the streets.”

Talk about spin- you take the cake. When MR left the governer’s office unemployment in MA was way, way down. There’s the average over his term, then there’s the trend. The trend is his friend, so you quote the average. Too smart by half.

You, I, and a few others know you’re right. But no one cares. Relax, get out and hike- we’ve got several more years before this issue really shows up on the public’s radar. And by then it will really be too late.

Talk about spin- you take the cake. When MR left the governer’s office unemployment in MA was way, way down. There’s the average over his term, then there’s the trend. The trend is his friend, so you quote the average. Too smart by half.

Talk about spinning, there’s no quote of average or trend in that post. Only a quote of Romney saying that it is silly to think his policies caused the employment drops during his first year.

The point of his post was to mock Romney supporters who bitterly condemn Obama for inheriting a plummeting economy and for the dropping employment during his first year but take the opposite tack for Romney in the exact same circumstance.

Here you come, chart in hand, to prove him excruciatingly right. Your raw data chart on “Obummer” is mostly interesting for the raw data on George Bush. Three quarters of the employment decline occurs before “Obummer” is President. The remainder occurs during that first year. Was Romney wrong about the first year thing? And if so, what about Romney’s first year in MA?

Talk about spin- you take the cake. When MR left the governer’s office unemployment in MA was way, way down. There’s the average over his term, then there’s the trend. The trend is his friend, so you quote the average. Too smart by half.

That’s what the parties like to do. Take the stat for the period which best makes their case. The other example of that is some Democrat citing to jobs lost under Bush. His presidency ended in the middle of the largest economic decline in a generation. Of course those numbers are bad.

At this point the only way to describe President Obama would be either totally incompetent or a miserable failure. Why pander over and over again to voters to make the same job killing proposals? How about coming up with something new–something that might actually have a snowball’s chance of getting through Congress? Are votes more important than jobs? Apparently.

Again I’ll push the idea of higher rates for those with high levels of W-2 income. That idea has already been proposed, by a very conservative Republican, but for some reason President Obama chooses to ignore it.

RE:Scotsman @ 61 – Yes, you are correct. I am going to do hike Bandera shortly. Like running, its easy to forget how good it is until you are doing it again.

The future is anyone’s guess. I have no great insights. The background reality is that very populous countries are closing/have closed the education gap – as opposed to dim bulbs like Laura Tyson and Janet Yellen believing we would export the low wage jobs, and continue our leadership in high paying, high tech jobs. Will this create future demand for US goods? Or will it lead to a continued descent of the US standard of living?

Gradualism is the prime directive. Discontinuous movements kill financial models. A managed descent has been underway for a while.

I am not much of an investor. I think shorting US Treasuries might be a good long term investment. And going long PM’s, ultimately.

Guess, near term – continued managed deflation. Longer term – history shows managed inflation, right? But in the face of domestic wage stagnation and un/underemployment – rising prices for goods with strong international demand. Mass sovereign default? Unthinkably undoable for larger economies no?

“Scholars on both the left and right have studied this question extensively, and have reached a consensus that it is conservatives who possess the happiness edge. Many data sets show this. For example, the Pew Research Center in 2006 reported that conservative Republicans were 68 percent more likely than liberal Democrats to say they were “very happy” about their lives. This pattern has persisted for decades. The question isn’t whether this is true, but why.”

Somewhat off topic, but under the heading of getting out and enjoying, I did se a great show this weekend at the Chateau St. Michelle winery – Steve Miller. My first choice was sold out – CS&N, and I was expecting a portly ’60’s burnout lyp synching to greatest hits. But the show was incredible. Miller must work out because he is in great shape, especially when you consider he is 68-69. And I forgot what a great guitarist he is. He opened with several pop hits, and then dove into some great blues standards. Seattles own Randy “Hendrix” Hansen came out to duel with Steve culmintaing in a great version of Voodoo Child. Jimi!! Great stuff, and the mixing board team did a great job. Sound quality was awesome, and Steve’s voice is still silky smooth. The 50-60 year olds were shaking it. Great venue. Get out and enjoy! When the world is running down, get the best of what is still around.

Consumer borrowing rose by $17.1 billion in May from April, the Federal Reserve said Monday. The gain drove total borrowing to a seasonally adjusted $2.57 trillion, nearly matching the all-time high reached in July 2008.

All you have to do is suspend all consideration for the world we live in, go to church, and put your faith in God. God will provide.

I’m going to share another personal experience in my life about a trip I took to Israel. I went there to tour the Uzi factory.

Of course I didn’t have a care in the world, why would I?

A friend of mine in Egypt arranged for me to take a tour of the archeological digs in Jordan. I went with a driver, a translator, and a girl from Germany who shared the bus with us. Along the way we passed through a Palestinian refugee camp. I wanted to stop, but they told me it wasn’t safe.

When I got back to Israel I asked what I could do to help, and my translator told me to go home. He asked if I had ever been to Mexico, which I had. He told me that Mexico was my struggle, and to pay attention to that.

So, yeah, as long as you don’t have a cause, as long as you suspend passion, life is easy. If you expect your tithing to the church to absolve you of sin, then sure you can sleep well.

“Q264 John Mann: Before I ask my questions, I just wonder, Mr Diamond, if you could remind me of the three founding principles of the Quakers who set up Barclays?

Bob Diamond: I can’t, sir.

Q265 John Mann: I can help, and I could offer to tattoo them on your knuckles if you want, because they are honesty, integrity and plain dealing. That is the ethos of this bank that you have spent two hours telling us is doing so well-in fact, from what you have told us, doing so well that I wondered why you had not received an extra bonus rather than the sack.

You have told us that, as I understand what you are saying, it is right that there is a criminal investigation. Some people among the people that you employed may therefore go to prison. You have told us that other banks were doing the same thing. I understand from what you are saying that you are telling us that you never questioned or analysed the rates that were reported between 2005 and 2008 and that you never discussed at a senior level the possibility of your traders misreporting or misrepresenting. Is that accurate?

Bob Diamond: First, in terms of honesty, integrity and plain dealing, that is how I have behaved in my entire career in the business, so I agree with that, and that doesn’t mean that I knew or was aware of the bad behaviour. As soon as I was aware, I did what I could to make sure that it wasn’t there, so if there is an inference that Barclays is anything other than interested in honesty-”

At this point the only way to describe President Obama would be either totally incompetent or a miserable failure. Why pander over and over again to voters to make the same job killing proposals?

tax cuts for the rich are not job killers. that is a myth. if not, source please.

obama is “pandering” to voters because they support higher taxes on the rich to bring down the long-term deficit. this is an issue now because the unfunded bush tax cuts for the very rich and mitt romney expire soon.

obama’s policies are not failure because he HASN’T been able to enact them. last fall’s jobs bill didn’t get anywhere through Congress. his stimulus plans wore off years ago.

Maybe republicans are happier because they are out making positive lives for themselves and others while democrats just lay around pissing and moaning about how awful republicans are? Seems reasonable to me.

Joe Biden is a “big fu##ing deal” democrat. Like most, he talks the talk but doesn’t deliver on the walk part. I can cite example after example of similar democrat leaders and their hypocrisy. Giving time and money is fine- as long as it isn’t your time or money. $400,000 in income, and less than a $grand to charity. Don’t get me started- I’ll make a fool of you- even in your own eyes.

What bothers me about the new set of conservative Republicans is all they do is complain.

Republicans can’t make enough money because the government won’t allow them to. We need to get rid of Obama because he won’t play ball.

The Bushs were, and are, career politicians. The Republicans have another career politician in Mitt Romney. Career politicians, like the Kennedys used to be a bad thing, but when the shoe is on the other foot, well, that’s different.

We can’t let Romney anywhere near the White House, and any “conservative” would know that.

The Republicans of today’s ilk are communists who want the government to cater to them , and the ideals they have, excluding all others.

The only reason Romney has a shot is because of that great silent majority of right wing nuts that mobilize votes. It’s also very hard for conservatives to back Obama, but believe me they do.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 80 – It would be interesting to research the relative wealth of those who self identify as conservative Republicans. I wonder if they are wealtheir especially when you consider the Southern states party membership. The puppetmasters are likely quite wealthy, but perhaps not the rank and file.

RE:Blurtman @ 85 – The message Romney should be giving is that as a businessman he knows how businesses think, and how they react to even proposed tax changes. He should then compare that to President Obama, who as a “community organizer” knows how to get people government benefits when they are unemployed.

Or on outsourcing, Romney should say that President Obama lied about his outsourcing jobs to other countries, but that business people outsource when it makes economic sense to do so, and that whoever is President needs to understand that, so that they can know what to do to slow it down or even stop it. He should follow that up by saying President Obama is “clueless” and doesn’t know what to do, so he hasn’t done anything to stop outsourcing jobs.

Maybe Romney is saving these types of arguments for the debates, but otherwise he doesn’t seem to be a very effective campaigner.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 86 – You hit the nail right on the head. His weak rebuttals so far are “I know what you are, but what am I?” I wonder how good his campaign management is. Based on the kid they had on the news, the answer might be “not very.”

Yes, he should promise an economic revival and leverage his personal business success as proof that he can get this done. As the Great One said “It’s the economy, stupid” and KISS. Unfortunately KISS was communicated indiscreetly one to many times.

(Reuters) – Russell Wasendorf Sr., the sole owner and chairman of stricken futures broker Peregrine Financial Group, Inc., intercepted and forged bank documents for more than two years to cover up hundreds of millions of dollars in missing money, a person close to the situation told Reuters.

OK. This is not a complex crime. No debate over whether this was fraud or just incompetence. This is something that Tony Soprano would do.

RE:Blurtman @ 85 – The message Romney should be giving is that as a businessman he knows how businesses think, and how they react to even proposed tax changes. He should then compare that to President Obama, who as a “community organizer” knows how to get people government benefits when they are unemployed.

and what is wrong with that? they paid for those benefits through taxes.

business experience doesn’t mean anything. remember how bush was the CEO president. Herbert Hoover was a very well respected businessman…

most people know that if their work goes out of business often the boss can be financial wrecked. not in the new economy though. you loss your job and your house but the boss still makes tens of millions of dollars.

the sad thing is mitt romney doesn’t have a comeback to the Bain criticism. This issue was brought up in 1994 in his Senate race against Ted Kennedy. Almost 18 years later he still doesn’t have a good explanation. why?

Another war is in the offing, in order to deflect attention form the ongoing looting and fraud.

A bona fide draft dodger, war profiteer, and war criminal – what a vile cur. He should be incarcerated at Guantanamo.

Cheney: Romney ‘only man’ for foreign policy
By By KASIE HUNT – 29 minutes ago
WILSON, Wyo. (AP) — Former Vice President Dick Cheney is telling Republican donors that GOP candidate Mitt Romney is the “only man” who can make the right foreign policy decisions for the country.

Cheney on Thursday was helping raise more than $4 million at events in Wyoming for Romney, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

Romney says Cheney is a “great American leader.” The presidential candidate didn’t mention former President George W. Bush in a nearly 20-minute speech.

RE:Blurtman @ 84 –
When polled, people who identify themselves as liberals tend to have a higher education level than those who identify themselves as conservatives. Maybe that’s why conservatives are happier. The liberal is upset because a neighbor put something recyclable in the garbage, and they’re seething mad, they’re frustrated that they can’t figure out a quadratic equation, and there’s a waitlist for the latest Subaru. The conservative happily drinks his bottle of Keystone Light while watching Jerry Springer( who happens to be a liberal Democrat), and laughs while using his digits to count to 21.

On the left we have a party that promised ending political gridlock, and then proceeded to set up the most partisan political climate in our lifetime by stomping on the other side when they had power. On substance, their solutions were clearly rebuffed by voters two years ago, but they didn’t respond to that with any change in position, other than to double down.

On the right we have a party who has many members on the national level who caved to pressure signing a pledge to never raise taxes, and seem to pick the stupidest fights possible.

And both parties want to reduce our personal liberties. The left is attacking Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion and several other rights. The right is attacking Freedom of Choice and Privacy.

I keep hoping for a third party to arise which will position itself between the two parties. I just don’t see that happening unless people start voting on factors besides name familiarity and sound bites.

On the left we have a party that promised ending political gridlock, and then proceeded to set up the most partisan political climate in our lifetime by stomping on the other side when they had power. On substance, their solutions were clearly rebuffed by voters two years ago, but they didn’t respond to that with any change in position, other than to double down.

Jon Kyle said today that it was Obama’s policies that caused Bain to oursource jobs in the ’80’s. Remarkable. Will it be GM that commercializes this time travel technology?

I’m not even sure Bain was outsourcing in the 80s, [edit: I didn’t see the next post when I wrote that] but the point could better be made that it’s the fault of Congress that we have significant outsourcing. Ignoring trade treaties which are probably good overall, the tax policy makes outsourcing very attractive.

Of course that would be over the head of most politicians, including unfortunately President Obama.

“The general feeling is that you can’t text pictures of your penis to a girl, then lie about it, then get kicked out of the House and then run for mayor right after,” said a political consultant. “But people believe there is a way for him to run for a lesser office.”

â��The general feeling is that you canâ��t text pictures of your penis to a girl, then lie about it, then get kicked out of the House and then run for mayor right after,â�� said a political consultant. â��But people believe there is a way for him to run for a lesser office.â��

Jon Kyle said today that it was Obama’s policies that caused Bain to oursource jobs in the ’80’s. Remarkable. Will it be GM that commercializes this time travel technology?

I’m not even sure Bain was outsourcing in the 80s, [edit: I didn’t see the next post when I wrote that] but the point could better be made that it’s the fault of Congress that we have significant outsourcing. Ignoring trade treaties which are probably good overall, the tax policy makes outsourcing very attractive.

Of course that would be over the head of most politicians, including unfortunately President Obama.

the most likely culprit is the overvalued dollar in the 90s and early 2000s.

Read the following carefully (from Wiki), then tell me the significant differences between the Vitter story and Tony the Pen#s. One approach fits well with general values (and leads to re-election) while the other results in ongoing ridicule. Can you understand the differences? Perhaps too nuanced for you, as there is no guiding partisan spin.

“Hustler identified the phone number and contacted Vitter’s office to ask about his connection to Palfrey.[20][21] The following day, Vitter issued a written statement in which he took responsibility for his sin and asked for forgiveness.[22] On July 16, 2007, after a week of self-imposed seclusion, Vitter emerged and called a news conference. Standing next to his wife, Vitter asked the public for forgiveness. Following Vitter’s remarks, Wendy Vitter, his wife, spoke.”

Ba-Da-Boom! How true, and yet ignored. My hope/faith in significant but controlled inflation as a solution is fading. The weight of current debt is too high, harming our ability to get the needed fire started.

The question is when? Do I list my house for sale in spring 2013 or 2014?

“The wishful thinking dominant today is that “with a little more growth, a little more energy, a little more technology — a little more magic — we’ll somehow sail past our current tribulations without having to change our behavior.” Such self-delusion is particularly dangerous because it is preventing us from taking intelligent, constructive action at the national level when the clock is fast ticking out of our favor. In fact, we are past the state where solutions are possible – instead, we need a response plan to help us best brace for the impact of the coming consequences. And we need it fast. One of the lessons that used to be at the center of a liberal education, and no longer is, is that life is tragic. And by that we do not mean that happy endings are impossible or that bad outcomes are guaranteed. What we mean is that there are consequences to the things that you do and that everything has a beginning and a middle and an end. And we have to get real with those. We are discovering more and more is that the world is comprehensively broke in every sphere, and in every dimension and in every way. The governments in every level are all broke, the households are going broke, the banks are insolvent, the money really is not there. And the pretense that the money is there has been kept going simply with accounting fraud.”

Don’t be so sure the housing market is on its way back to health. Despite the first monthly increase in home prices in 7 months, as the Case-Shiller indexes showed on Tuesday, there are still more than 10 million properties with underwater mortgages, and a shadow inventory of 1.5 million, or four months supply. Negative equity will continue to take its toll on consumption, while the shadow inventory, worth about $246 billion according to CoreLogic, will constrict lending and probably affect banks’ earnings.

Read the following carefully (from Wiki), then tell me the significant differences between the Vitter story and Tony the Pen#s. One approach fits well with general values (and leads to re-election) while the other results in ongoing ridicule. Can you understand the differences? Perhaps too nuanced for you, as there is no guiding partisan spin.

“Hustler identified the phone number and contacted Vitter’s office to ask about his connection to Palfrey.[20][21] The following day, Vitter issued a written statement in which he took responsibility for his sin and asked for forgiveness.[22] On July 16, 2007, after a week of self-imposed seclusion, Vitter emerged and called a news conference. Standing next to his wife, Vitter asked the public for forgiveness. Following Vitter’s remarks, Wendy Vitter, his wife, spoke.”

Vitter lied the whole time. He ran as a squeaky clean FAMILY VALUES candidate, probably with a nice picture of his family on a brochure. he was lying the whole time.

Ba-Da-Boom! How true, and yet ignored. My hope/faith in significant but controlled inflation as a solution is fading. The weight of current debt is too high, harming our ability to get the needed fire started.

The question is when? Do I list my house for sale in spring 2013 or 2014?

“The wishful thinking dominant today is that “with a little more growth, a little more energy, a little more technology — a little more magic — we’ll somehow sail past our current tribulations without having to change our behavior.” Such self-delusion is particularly dangerous because it is preventing us from taking intelligent, constructive action at the national level when the clock is fast ticking out of our favor. In fact, we are past the state where solutions are possible – instead, we need a response plan to help us best brace for the impact of the coming consequences. And we need it fast. One of the lessons that used to be at the center of a liberal education, and no longer is, is that life is tragic. And by that we do not mean that happy endings are impossible or that bad outcomes are guaranteed. What we mean is that there are consequences to the things that you do and that everything has a beginning and a middle and an end. And we have to get real with those. We are discovering more and more is that the world is comprehensively broke in every sphere, and in every dimension and in every way. The governments in every level are all broke, the households are going broke, the banks are insolvent, the money really is not there. And the pretense that the money is there has been kept going simply with accounting fraud.”

Donâ��t be so sure the housing market is on its way back to health. Despite the first monthly increase in home prices in 7 months, as the Case-Shiller indexes showed on Tuesday, there are still more than 10 million properties with underwater mortgages, and a shadow inventory of 1.5 million, or four months supply. Negative equity will continue to take its toll on consumption, while the shadow inventory, worth about $246 billion according to CoreLogic, will constrict lending and probably affect banksâ�� earnings.

RE:pfft @ 119 – “Priced in” would seem to mean that home buyers can factor in the rate and timing of the release of housing inventory in their region, and make an offer accordingly. Surely, you are not suggesting that.

“isn’t shadow inventory down anyways?” Yes, but still very significant.

From the Forbes link: “According to CoreLogic, the shadow inventory stood at 1.5 million in April, which translates to 4 months of supply. After having peaked at 2.1 million in 2010, the shadow inventory has declined, but still remains elevated.”

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 107 – Higher profit margins via a greatly reduced labor cost I think is the main reason. In fact, if all of US jobs are shipped over to China so that we may purchase less expensive goods and services, just think how rich we will all be!

RE:pfft @ 119 – “Priced in” would seem to mean that home buyers can factor in the rate and timing of the release of housing inventory in their region, and make an offer accordingly. Surely, you are not suggesting that.

yes that’s what markets do. it may not be perfect but that’s what they do.

a quick google finds articles about shadow inventory in 2012, 2011 and 2010.

shadow inventory has fallen 25% so those are being dumped on the market now. shadow inventory is decreasing not increasing. shadow inventory is being worked out right now.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 107 – Higher profit margins via a greatly reduced labor cost I think is the main reason. In fact, if all of US jobs are shipped over to China so that we may purchase less expensive goods and services, just think how rich we will all be!

It’s not the absolute cost of the labor. You have to factor in how productive the labor is.

DHL took over Airborne Express and quickly moved everyone to lower cost labor markets. It quickly destroyed the company. Sometimes a bargain is not a bargain. You have to look at results.

RE:pfft @ 122 – I believve you are confusing pricing caused by market manipulation, with actionable knowledge of the market manipulation, whcih under the “total transparency president,” is anything but that.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 123 – I think you are going to have to define “efficiency.” If you use a less costly input to produce the same good or service, you have increased effciency. Chinese labor being the less costly input.

One should also consider the efficiency of societal benefit. It is preposterous to maintain separate countries and social values while destroying one country’s labor force by outsourcing to another. The winners are the outsourcers who increase their profit margins, but not the society whose standard of living continues to fall. So outsourcing has a lesser societlal benefit efficiency than insourcing. Again, I must ask – if we can all save money on the purchase of goods and services by transferring 100% of their production to China, imagine how wealthy we will all become.

RE:pfft @ 122 – I believve you are confusing pricing caused by market manipulation, with actionable knowledge of the market manipulation, whcih under the “total transparency president,” is anything but that.

One thing Apple apparently likes about Chinese labor is that they will work for incredible periods of time in periods of need (product launches). You’re never going to get that here in the US. That is an efficiency of sort.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 128 – Yes, I believe there is much more to gain, especially if you have moved to the city from a relatively impoverished background in the countryside. The belief that you and yur children can get ahead, and the belief in the rise of your country, are likely powerful motivators. Contrast that to the USA.

If food stamps and unemployment benefits were cut off, SS disbaility, too, and SS itself, you might see folks work like that in the USA.

The companies who are outsourcing to the regions of very low labor inputs are the winners. And why should we not expect a profit maximizing organization to do that? And such firms would not be concerned about the longer term societal harm that results from their pursuit of profit maximization. Nothing overtly illegal about it. And good PR can mange any discovered abuses.

If food stamps and unemployment benefits were cut off, SS disbaility, too, and SS itself, you might see folks work like that in the USA.

Two thoughts on that. Clearly I think we would see a lot more deflationary pressure on the economy without such programs. Increasing unemployment benefit periods are seen as being relatively stimulative compared to other stimulus spending.

Second, it reminded me of this topic on welfare work requirements. The Obama administration is again flexing its executive powers in ways that have not been done before. I’m not certain whether this is good or bad, but it is a topic which has not been brought up.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 131 – Well, how deflationary is it to displace millions of workers from productive jobs onto the unemployment roles? Benefits are a fraction of a decent wage.

And how about you don’t work, you don’t eat? Blackmailing society by having children that you cannot support must cease to work as a strategy. A recent tragedy illustrates the free rider mentality. What is likely the child of an undocumented worker died from head tauma sustained in a fall out of an apartment window in Tacoma recently. The child’s treatment at the local ER was faulty, and the kid was discharged and died from an undiagnosed cerebral hematoma. A horrible tragedy, and a lawsuit is already in the works. The dad admitted that he had no medical insurance. But who would have kids without having adequate medical insurance? Answer: People who want kids and who expect others to pay for their care.

I wasn’t trying to debate the wisdom of social programs. I like them more than you, apparently, but probably less than pfft.

My point was simply that one reason not mentioned much here that we haven’t seen deflation is the existence of such programs. A large unemployed workforce without benefits would put huge downward pressure on wages.

“We are looking very carefully at the economy, trying to judge whether or not the loss of momentum we’ve seen recently is enduring, and whether or not the economy is likely to continue to make progress,” he said, warning that progress in reducing a 8.2 per cent unemployment rate “seems likely to be frustratingly slow”.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 133 – I am not opposed to “social programs.” I am opposed to irresponsible behavior. I am for the ability of a country to control the allocation of its resources. I am against subsidizing countries that refuse to institute land ownership reform, and that are more than happy to dump its problems on its neighbor.

RE:pfft @ 142 – Not surprisingly, you offer an apples to oranges comparison. You propose that the USA offer the same benefits as countries that are able to allocate their resources in a controlled manner, that is, that are not dealing with uncontrolled immigration. Would you like to guess what percentage of illegal immigrants comprises the population of Norway?

RE:pfft @ 142 – Not surprisingly, you offer an apples to oranges comparison. You propose that the USA offer the same benefits as countries that are able to allocate their resources in a controlled manner, that is, that are not dealing with uncontrolled immigration. Would you like to guess what percentage of illegal immigrants comprises the population of Norway?

why does that matter? on the whole immigrants benefit the US. anyway how do you know that is the problem? do you have a study or a paper you can cite?

Anyways you are wrong. Illegal immigrants don’t qualify for most welfare. in fact many illegal immigrants pay SS but can’t ever collect.

â��We are looking very carefully at the economy, trying to judge whether or not the loss of momentum weâ��ve seen recently is enduring, and whether or not the economy is likely to continue to make progress,â�� he said, warning that progress in reducing a 8.2 per cent unemployment rate â��seems likely to be frustratingly slowâ��.

Ã¢ï¿½ï¿½We are looking very carefully at the economy, trying to judge whether or not the loss of momentum weÃ¢ï¿½ï¿½ve seen recently is enduring, and whether or not the economy is likely to continue to make progress,Ã¢ï¿½ï¿½ he said, warning that progress in reducing a 8.2 per cent unemployment rate Ã¢ï¿½ï¿½seems likely to be frustratingly slowÃ¢ï¿½ï¿½.

Ã�Â¢Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã¯Â¿Â½We are looking very carefully at the economy, trying to judge whether or not the loss of momentum weÃ�Â¢Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã¯Â¿Â½ve seen recently is enduring, and whether or not the economy is likely to continue to make progress,Ã�Â¢Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã¯Â¿Â½ he said, warning that progress in reducing a 8.2 per cent unemployment rate Ã�Â¢Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã¯Â¿Â½seems likely to be frustratingly slowÃ�Â¢Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã¯Â¿Â½.

Basically, if you accomplished something, you were either lucky or others helped you. Hard work, individual effort, intelligence, not part of the equation.

No wonder he thinks he can create jobs with continual stimulus spending. He’s a community organizer, who thinks all good things come from the government.

you misquoted obama.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that.

he was talking about roads and other infrastructure.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

how is obama anti-business? He hasn’t prosecuted Wall st. he let them off the hook. He passed the stimulus which saved millions of jobs. He saved the auto companies which are very successful. His jobs program was blocked last fall and his new bill for small business that would create jobs was just blocked.

Corporate profits are at an all-time high and businesses have tons of cash. how exactly is that anti-business?

You never answered this question and did you think I forgot? Just how many jobs has obama’s supposed anti-buiness record cost us? Then please offset that with the millions upon millions of jobs that he saved or created.

by the way it’s not like he isn’t creating jobs. About 4 millions jobs have been created over the last 2 years.

“That means about $11.2 billion went into the Social Security Trust Fund in 2007, and $2.6 billion went into Medicare. While that money will be used to pay retirees and health-care beneficiaries, it most likely will never be claimed by the illegal immigrants who contributed it.”

Slavery and the sound of a cracking whip brought us the term “cracker” as the euphemism for the individual who forced compliance by slaves through the threat of violence. With the political theory of Marx and the social climate of the 1960’s came the socio-economic concept of institutionalized violence where the whip was no longer necessary because the socio-economic structure would through market forces of supply and demand effectively limit true freedom by limiting the available alternatives for people to obtain the necessities of life thus forcing people to perform labor and otherwise comply with societal regulation as the only viable means to provide for their survival in an era of economic specialization.

Now, the global economy and technology have brought enough economic and political stability to the “emerging markets” that the starving masses of the “emerging markets” compete directly with each of us in the labor market. The result being that stabilization of the emerging markets coupled with free market goal of profit maximization has ordained international corporate management as the new class of “institutional crackers.” Andy Griffith may be dead, but each time I see a CEO of a global corporation on CNBC, I hear the phrase “mmmmmm . . . good cracker!”

With that said, I dislike national boundaries and nationalism. I believe in the free flow of just about everything. I don’t think there is any compeling reason that my standard of living should be significantly different than that of millions of other individuals capable of and willing to perform the same tasks that I perform with the same productivity that I do. But even though my family is in the top 1% and will effectively suffer from what I’m about to say, I think the institutional crackers and the coupon clippers are enabled by our socio-economic structure to keep too big a piece of the pie. But I don’t know of a way to fix that and I don’t think that will change.

Collective bargaining and extended life expectancy may have given yesterdays working class too large a claim to future economic production, but the same is true of the institutional cracker. The irony is that by shear numbers, the collective bargaining class is a greater weight on future production than the institutional crackers. America will probably survive by quashing the collective bargaining class while honoring the institutional crackers for their outstanding achievement. In effect, both the illusion and the motivational power of the American dream will probably survive because every collecive bargaining class member of the tea party dreams of being an institutional cracker. In the end America will reorganize the claim of the non-working class to future production, but stop short of killing the dream of winning the lottery by obtaining promotion to the cracker class. Its the principles of social darwinism at work. Look for a “grand bargain” of tax and entitlement reform coming to your neighborhood next winter. But you probably shouldn’t look for any true decline in the percentage wealth of the top 1%.

It’s nice to know the rationale, but the more important observation is that it has been demonstrated not to work for job creation. Therefore, it is a policy with no benefit, but a large negative vis a vis the deficit. Time to end it; maybe surtax back the misrepresented windfall.

Perhaps job creation really comes from consumers buying things, rather than a little more excess capital on the sidelines.

You got to hand it to Bill. He can complain that nobody saw Obama at Columbia while showing a picture of Obama at Columbia. Then he can hint that Obama never wrote for the law review while simultaneously complaining that Obama spent lots of money keeping those writings secret.

I’d like to see his takedown of the Bush administration for allowing 9/11, taking us to war with the wrong country for 9/11, but then saying it’s OK that we weren’t getting Bin Laden ’cause he’d been marginalized. Not as serious as the Columbia kerfuffle, but I’d love to see it if you can get me the link.

Listening is hard. Still, you should try. The pics aren’t at Columbia, the money is being spent on keeping his grades secret, etc. It’s because facts don’t matter to so many that we even have to discuss Obama’s possible re-election.

And pleeeeze- Bush is so 2000, while Obama is what’s happening tomorrow. Bush wouldn’t even be brought into the current discussion except for the fact that sensible rebuttals to the record of the current administration are impossible.

Listening is hard. Still, you should try. The pics aren’t at Columbia, the money is being spent on keeping his grades secret, etc. It’s because facts don’t matter to so many that we even have to discuss Obama’s possible re-election.

And pleeeeze- Bush is so 2000, while Obama is what’s happening tomorrow. Bush wouldn’t even be brought into the current discussion except for the fact that sensible rebuttals to the record of the current administration are impossible.

I listened real hard, and you’re probably right that those pictures aren’t at Columbia.

And it probably was so 2000 to mention Bush, but still, Bill does it at 50 seconds into his video. Nevertheless, if we’re going to ridicule Obama for being on the golf course when Bin Laden get’s his, and then looking like a schoolboy at the press conference; we don’t want to remind folks that Bush was acting as star elementary ed reading pupil when Bin Laden got ours.

I did enjoy learning that Romneycare II is the biggest tax on the middle class ever. As a future event, I am not certain how that is factually quantified.Since we are focusing on Tomorrow, how many American jobs is that Bain subsidiary about to export? I forget.

The Republican Party wants to rally support around Bush, but it is impossible.

Obama has cleaned up a lot of the mess, and Republicans still want to ridicule him.

Let’s take Guantanamo Bay, holding prisoners that we have no way to prosecute.

Think about that for two minutes. An American President took prisoners onto soveriegn United States soil, labeled them terrorists, tortured them, and got nothing.

The lies in the video about how Obama got good intel out of Guantanamo was a bone Obama threw in Dick Cheney’s direction, not even Bush’s, he laid the blame for Guantanamo Bay where it belonged. Cheney orchestrated this blight on the United States, Bush stood by, and let it happen.

You must have no idea how Guantanamo Bay looks to war lords, dictators, and cartels around the world. It’s justification for any means, for nothing but terrorism.

The prisoners, if they are prisoners, should have been handed over to the Hague. Rounding them up was a bad idea. We got nothing from this, but bad press.

Let me also say that the video has several parts that were lies, inconsequential, and misdirection.

Obama has taken Congress, and the Supreme Court to task. Obama has stood his ground in what is termed as his anti business stances. Obama has been right all along, pun intended, and the right has attacked him for it.

It makes no difference because the right wing conservative Tea Party nuts have Mitt Romney to contend with. Mitt’s a discussion for another time.

RE:whatsmyname @ 158 – You’ve got to thank George W for “defending our freedom.” Plus, it was a real gut buster when the president danced around in his White House office, joking about the missing WMD’s. What a kidder!

Say what you want, but he was a real class guy and a great example of what America is all about.

The United States sells guns legally to almost every country on earth. The only countries we don’t sell to are the ones where we have middle people to do the sales for us.

Gun sales are worth billions of dollars.

I’m going to leave the details alone because it would only cause confusion. What we do know is that this gun walking fiasco has always been a fiasco, and was under review long before Holder, and Obama came along.

It’s just like a lot of stuff with the government; somethings, some programs, some decisions are hard to kill. For sure you don’t want to know the half of it, it’s just a better headline if we can blame Holder.

RE:Scotsman @ 159 – Did you find that link yet? I don’t care about Bush; I’m just looking to see if Bill has always been a man of high standards and credibility. I know he makes some good points, but I don’t want to champion him around the internet, and then get my @ss handed to me cause he’s a 5 star hypocrite.

Also I think that facts about wars and stuff that kill hundreds of thousands of people (not to mention free-falling economies) are as important to serious people as facts about someone’s college transcripts. (Call me wacky.)

“Since we are focusing on Tomorrow, how many American jobs is that Bain subsidiary about to export”

What? This is embarrassing- for you. Stop the regurgitation and turn on your brain. Bain and your implication- Romney- isn’t even sooo 2000. He left in 1999. That’s 13 years ago. What does it have to do with the fact that Obama has presided over the loss of 4,000,000+ jobs, surging bankster corruption, huge increases in debt, etc?

And Bin Laden? Really? Obama didn’t do anything but get in the way on that one up until the time he had to say yes or no to the culmination of years and years of work by the military, which Obama obviously despises. Any president would have given the OK. That’s not lauditory- it’s expected. Big whoop.

“Let’s take Guantanamo Bay, holding prisoners that we have no way to prosecute.”

Ok- let’s. Last I checked it’s still there, along with a bunch of prisoners. Were you trying to make a point, or just taking another shot at your foot? Gawd, David- do you read what you type? In addition to that failed promise, Obama made it worse by signing legislation that lets him/government declare any American a threat, locking them up with no trial. Obama has grown the whole Guantanamo issue to include you! That’s progress? That’s Bush’s fault?

I’d tear down your other dozen winning points but it’s time to go roast marshmallows in the back yard.

RE:Scotsman @ 65 – Embarrassing for me? He left in 1999, but was CEO and drawing a salary in 2002. Mr. Facts Wizard, How can a thing be, and at the same time not be?

Romney created Bain. It is a creature of his design for business, and for America.

Surely you know this. Just as you also know the cataclysmic events in the economy happened before Obama was elected much less took office. Employment was in freefall and the big bankster bailout was sealed before he ever arrived. What are facts without context? – a diversion for fools and liars.

As for Bin Laden, Bush didn’t get him; minimized the not getting him, and clearly used 9/11 as a pretext for invading an uninvolved country. It’s a hard case to make that Obama’s mediocrity in being in charge when they got him was an any way comparable to that.

Fact: Romney left Bain management in 1999 and never went back. Yes, it took several years to negotiate his retirement package and final severance. Your point? Bain is very successful- our country should run as well.

Tell me again what Obama has done over the last 3 years to improve the situation he was handed- besides whine, play over 100 rounds of golf, attend over 100 major fund raisers, and rack up $5T in new debt. Tell me what his specific plan is for the future. I mean besides more hope and change. Tell me how he cares more about you than he does himself.

Tell me how your life has changed with the death of Bin Laden- what is different now. Convince me it’s a big deal that has personally impacted your life.

Fact: Romney left Bain management in 1999 and never went back. Yes, it took several years to negotiate his retirement package and final severance. Your point? Bain is very successful- our country should run as well.

Well, if it’s asserted it must be true. Can you point to another executive who needed several years on the payroll to negotiate his retirement package and severance?

Yes, Bain is very successful. It’s the little people who suffer. And yes, I know that is the perfect model for our country in the eyes of many.

RE:whatsmyname @ 169 –
Tell me again what Obama has done over the last 3 years to improve the situation he was handed- besides whine, play over 100 rounds of golf, attend over 100 major fund raisers, and rack up $5T in new debt. Tell me what his specific plan is for the future. I mean besides more hope and change. Tell me how he cares more about you than he does himself.

For a Scotsman (and a Bush fan), you seem very down on golf. It’s odd how a president can rack up debt now. I thought that was Congress. Clearly a bad time for massive, nonproductive tax cuts for capital.

Don’t get me wrong. Obama has been mediocre. His big plan was an FDR-type medical care legacy. HIs big accomplishment has been to slow the progress of the tea party folks in putting us in the third world. You think Romney cares more about me than himself? How is this a question for an intelligent person?

Tell me how your life has changed with the death of Bin Laden- what is different now. Convince me it’s a big deal that has personally impacted your life.

Wow! How about asking me how the invasion of Iraq affected my life? How about the lives of those American who were killed or maimed? You probably don’t see any point to bringing that 97 year old Nazi to justice either.

Google the term sabbatical. Here’s a hint–it’s not an Italian sports car. You might also want to research “leave of absence.” My dad as a government employee, took an extended leave of absence to work on the Alaska pipeline. During that period he remained a government employee (without pay or benefits).

Also, I’m having a hard time finding a link, but I think Romney’s salary was paid by a Bain subsidiary. Assuming you have the same understanding of business as President Obama, you might need to Google that term too. Assuming that is the case, you’d need to show that that subsidiary had some outsourcing activity for this to matter.

Finally, again this outsourcing issue is a non-issue. Businesses will outsource if that is in their interest. The important thing is understanding why businesses outsource, and changing what you can, like our tax policy, to make outsourcing less likely. Since President Obama doesn’t understand business, he can’t even begin to fix the problem. All he can do is what he’s done the past three years, complain about outsourcing. What makes you think that will change if he’s given another four years?

Fact: Romney left Bain management in 1999 and never went back. Yes, it took several years to negotiate his retirement package and final severance. Your point? Bain is very successful- our country should run as well.

Well, if it’s asserted it must be true. Can you point to another executive who needed several years on the payroll to negotiate his retirement package and severance?.

You don’t begin to negotiate a severance package until you determine you’re not coming back. That’s rather basic.

Maybe we should focus instead on the tasks necessary to be President. Can you name another president who created such a partisan mess that he went three years without signing a budget?

In fact, since their goal seems to be less employment and more government benefits, they probably think a depression is preferable! /sarc

Why can’t the two parties just compromise, and tax high W2 income more? That will not impact jobs as much and it will raise revenue. (Although the revenue even from the full proposal is pretty meaningless.)

I’m pretty much Anti-Obama at this point, so I thought I would go back and read what I wrote the morning after he was elected. This is from Raincityguide.com on 11/4/2008

This might not surprise anyone, but I really don’t think a lot of either party. So I’m neither happy nor sad about the results of the Presidential election. I do think it a bit funny that the same people that voted in Democrats two years ago, falling hook line and sinker for their claims of wanting to end the Iraq war now think that Democrats now have a solution for the economic situation, but whatever. I do hope they have better ideas this time!

The real benefit of this will be maintaining balance in the Supreme Court. Because of a refusal to give up power and retire, liberals on the Court really didn’t retire during the Clinton years. So that left 8 years of Reagan, 4 of Bush I and 8 of Bush II where only one party was nominating Justices. By my count that’s 20 years over a span of 28 years. And often the new nominees were relatively young, purposefully to determine the direction of the court well into the future.

There are three branches of government. It’s hard to think much of the folks in Congress, and Presidents have their good and bad points no matter what. But the Supreme Court has real power. And balance there is a good thing.

I was clearly both hopeful and skeptical that the Democrats would have a solution for our economy. What I was really wrong about though was the Supreme Court. I know think it’s more important to get some more conservative Justices in place. In my defense, I didn’t think we’d have a democrat President and democratic party so hostile to the Bill of Rights and so willing to expand government powers (and executive powers). Anyway, I now think just the opposite–it would be better for the Supreme Court if we had a republican President.

Listening is hard. Still, you should try. The pics aren’t at Columbia, the money is being spent on keeping his grades secret, etc. It’s because facts don’t matter to so many that we even have to discuss Obama’s possible re-election.

And pleeeeze- Bush is so 2000, while Obama is what’s happening tomorrow. Bush wouldn’t even be brought into the current discussion except for the fact that sensible rebuttals to the record of the current administration are impossible.

“Since we are focusing on Tomorrow, how many American jobs is that Bain subsidiary about to export”

What? This is embarrassing- for you. Stop the regurgitation and turn on your brain. Bain and your implication- Romney- isn’t even sooo 2000. He left in 1999. That’s 13 years ago. What does it have to do with the fact that Obama has presided over the loss of 4,000,000+ jobs, surging bankster corruption, huge increases in debt, etc?

And Bin Laden? Really? Obama didn’t do anything but get in the way on that one up until the time he had to say yes or no to the culmination of years and years of work by the military, which Obama obviously despises. Any president would have given the OK. That’s not lauditory- it’s expected. Big whoop.

Your Kool-Aid is waiting. Drink up!

Mitt was sole owner of Bain even after he “left.”

He signed SEC documents through 2002.

He still gets money from Bain. Millions.

“What? This is embarrassing- for you. Stop the regurgitation and turn on your brain.”

food stamps is one of the best ways to stimulate the economy not to mention make sure kids grow up healthy. we can’t have that now can we? better childhood nutrition means a better American workforce for Bain to outsource.

Man, you’re on fire today. I’m going to get to the Mexicans in a minute, but the Nobel Peace Prize was for Obama making a stand against an unjust war.

The war in Iraq was a complete quagmire. Shock, and awe destroyed infrastructure, needlessly. There was no military advantage that it gave us, as a matter of fact it made an invasion more trecherous. It effectively did more harm to our troops than it did good.

Haliburton made a fortune doing repairs that are still not complete.

I can go on for about 210 pages about the disaster of the Iraq war. The end result was that:

“In 2004, OPEC’s ‘fair’ price was $25 per barrel. Two years later it was $50. In 2010, OPEC’s secretary general, Abdalla Salem El-Badri, argued for $90, and by the end of 2011, with OPEC’s oil revenues topping $1 trillion, he adjusted the price to $100.”

Food Stamps are a broad based stimulus that is a part of our Farm Aid Programs.

Republicans, good God fearing Farming Republicans get money from the government to grow, or not grow certain crops. The dairy industry thrives on these kinds of hand outs, without which our price per gallon of milk would drop, like a rock, in a clear pool of water.

Those ripples from the middle of a calm pool to the edges would make a tsunami of economic devastation.

Now the city slicking Republicans hate Food Stamps, and the God fearing farmers may even say the same, but the reality is that Food Stamps suck the surpluses out of our supply, and demand system so the price of food can remain high enough to make agribusiness.

Guantanamo can’t be closed until there is a place to put the detainees. Every country has rejected them. Those that have left hate America more, and are more outspoken against the United States.

Obama’s big plan was to bring the detainees into the United States to be tried, but then they would have rights inside of our court system, nobody wants that.

So, there they sit, as our problem. They are a problem that Obama is now saddled with.

I’d like to hear a Republican solution to a group of men that were kidnapped, tortured, and held in a foriegn country.

How many years has it been? Where is the evidence? Was it a crime to kidnap, and torture these people? and if so, how can they be tried for crimes? They may have incriminated themselves in the torture process.

To be more clear, it’s my opinion that we have a bunch of taxi drivers, and low level thugs detained in Guantanamo Bay, and that is the reason we aren’t going to hear a lot more about that.

Last, but not least is that my comment at #163 was about gun sales to Mexico. How that got into the realm of the black god in the White House I’m not sure, but let’s address when the free sh$t stops, there will be urban riots.

Bill Clinton put the gun walking into motion in his attampt to ban assault weapons. The program now called the Fast, and the Furious was active all through the Bush administration. It was a stupid program that was a complete waste of tax dollars, but there it sat.

It was funded and run because it was there, but after 2008 budgets were cut, and there wasn’t enough funding to keep this operation going like it used to. The people who ran the program continued to do so, but no one was paying attention.

No one cared about gun walking by 2010. That’s the bottom line. The program was in place, agents were getting pay checks, but there were no additional funds available to make a big sting operation. The guns literally walked.

What I linked to was the United States government sales of guns to Mexico, in particular the Mexican military. 150,000 Mexican military, and police have walked away from duty to join cartels. Cartels pay better. Those military men, and women take thier firearms with them.

The Fast, and the Furious is a Republican era pork belly program that they want covered up so they are dumping it on Holder.

As far as the documents go, they are meaningless. The work of the ATF is best left under wraps until we can disband it. That’s another United States embarassment.

“Food Stamps suck the surpluses out of our supply, and demand system so the price of food can remain high”

Stop it- you’re making my head hurt. I’ll type slowly so you can follow along . . . If what you say above is true, wouldn’t we be ahead to stop the food stamp program so (food) supplies could increase, and then prices would fall for everyone? And if food was cheaper, everyone could more easily afford it- then they might not need food stamps . . .

Next time you stop by the planet, call me- I’d love to sit down and chat. Your world(s) must be facinating. ;-)

Question- who was worse- Haliburton, Bush 1, or Bush 2? In my personal growth I seek clarity and purity. /

When the price per gallon of milk, or cheese falls to a certain point farmers were tossing it. It was cheaper to toss it than take it to market. You’re old enough, I think, to remember surplus government cheese.

Farm subsidies are the great equalizer that keep the cost of food manageable.

Your grocery retailer, like WalMart are the regulators of the market price of food.

Now you want to put all of the nice people out of work, go back to subsistence farming, so you can buy cheap bananas? Come on, be realistic.

Google the term sabbatical. Here’s a hint–it’s not an Italian sports car. You might also want to research “leave of absence.” My dad as a government employee, took an extended leave of absence to work on the Alaska pipeline. During that period he remained a government employee (without pay or benefits).

Also, I’m having a hard time finding a link, but I think Romney’s salary was paid by a Bain subsidiary.

Let’s see; He owned the company, retained the CEO title, and received a salary. And you think he wasn’t involved in running the company. Somebody here doesn’t understand business. That’s for sure.

And you think that is comparable to a government employee taking a leave with no pay or benefits and certainly now ownership power. Perhaps you better re-look at what really constitutes leave of absence. Hint: they don’t fall from the tree.

Salary paid by a subsidiary? You might try and google subsidiary. This is just an obfuscation of where the money comes from; another term for that is money laundering.

Democrats are willing to cause a depression to get their way on taxing the rich.

Didn’t you acknowledge in post 148 that the “job creators” weren’t creating jobs with their tax breaks? -Just waiting around for a nicer president?

The difference is that people running companies don’t have the public interest as their primary interest. They have the interest of their shareholders.

Politicians, on the other hand, should have the public interest as their primary interest.

That’s yet another example of how partisan Democrats simply don’t understand very basic things about the world. This whole issue of Romney possibly outsourcing is total nonsense only believed by extremely ignorant people. Businesses don’t run their basic operations based on the public good, although they may do certain things as PR. Politicians need to understand that, and set government policy so that what it is in the interest of business to operate in this country, as opposed to elsewhere.

Google the term sabbatical. Here’s a hint–it’s not an Italian sports car. You might also want to research “leave of absence.” My dad as a government employee, took an extended leave of absence to work on the Alaska pipeline. During that period he remained a government employee (without pay or benefits).

Also, I’m having a hard time finding a link, but I think Romney’s salary was paid by a Bain subsidiary.

Let’s see; He owned the company, retained the CEO title, and received a salary. And you think he wasn’t involved in running the company. Somebody here doesn’t understand business. That’s for sure.

Apparently you didn’t do anything I asked because you still don’t understand what either a sabbatical or leave of absence is. Go to Google and learn something rather than just repeating your nonsense over again.

RE:Blurtman @ 62 – OK. So there is a glitch in Tim’s blog, and “62” can refer to “162,” “262,” or just “62.” Got it.

Buy you requested that I provide a link to George W joking about not finding WMD’s. Just Google “Bush jokes about WMD’s.” and you will find lots and lots of links, including Youtube videos. 100,000 women and childen burned alive and blown to bits during the invasion, which unleashed complete hell therafter. And the erroneous rationale for the killing is funny. What a war criminal. What a miserable example of human life. And in the videos, look at the nicely attired audience laughing along. A good glimpse at a very, very sick society.

RE:David Losh @ 44 – You’re kidding, right? Let’s increase the US population by 100 million of illiterate, uneducated, unskilled workers with health issues due to lack of medical care, and with high reporductive rates. What could possibly go wrong?

Under control, and in moderation, no problem. But out of control, without the ability of communities to decide how to allocate their resources, bad news.

I read the “that” as referring to “this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.” The teacher, the roads, the bridges, are all a part of “that.” He was going for something similar to the speech that Elizabeth Warren gave a few months ago, but his doesn’t come across as well because I don’t think he has the passion for it like she does. I would say that Obama is too much in bed with business and the banks, but whatever. I guess you found out that he truly hates American Small Business.

I would suppose everyone is just going to read want they want to into the statement.

RE:uwp @ 215 – That “that” refers to bridges and roads is straight from the horse’s mouth. What’s ironic is that both your interpretation and mine (that it refers to the business) is more credible than his own interpretation of what he meant. I would assume, however, that if your interpretation was correct, that’s what he would have said today. Instead he said something different.

You assume we will only get the uneducated Mexicans when most likely our uneducated will go to warmer climates.

What are you afraid of?

Our wage base would adjust to attract the brightest, and the best, which we would.

You, and Scotsman, I suppose, invision some phantom welfare state that I have yet to encounter. You’d really have to enlighten me on this because since the 1970s, and 1980s I have seen is social programs gutted while we cater to corporate welfare.

It always sounds good to say food stamps, and welfare are a cost to tax payers when all it does is keep dollars churning through the economy, very few dollars at that.

Show me the charts, and graphs of how our welfare system is bankrupting America, and I’ll counter with what we pay to corporations to send our jobs over seas.

I’m also going to point out that most people I know from Mexico work every frigging day. The people working off the books are subjected to lower pay, worse working conditions, and doing the jobs Europeans, and Americans refuse to do.

By the way you should check the laws on undocumented worker, or those who work with government issued Visas.

Now if you wanted to talk health care for illegals we are all in the same boat on that one.

RE:David Losh @ 17 – You are reading far too much into my comments. It is good for folks to work hard, Mexicans and everyone else. I don’t know what that has to do with anything. And one reason poor Meicans are flooding into the USA is because greedy descendants of murdering Europeans took all of the land.

It is a fact that uninsured people seek medical care in the ER. And that as routine medical care is not accessed, when ER care is sought, it is much more expensive.

Communities should have the ability to control inflows of immigrants that will tax medical services, and also tax educational services. Or, I suppose, they should expect the federal government to do that.

I had a past discussion with a resident of the Netherlands, who was pooh poohing the USA’s lack of a single payer plan, which I personally think is the way to go. I asked him what would happen if I traveled to the Netherlands, and received expensive medical care as a non-citizen. He said that I would be presented with a bill which I would be expected to pay, as I was a non-citizen. I asked him what would happen if I skipped town, left the country, and didn’t pay. He said that I would not be allowed back into the country.

He could say that and not be accused of being a racist, by folks like you.

I think you totally missed my point. If Romney left in 1999 to run the 2002 Olympics, when do you think he decided on whether or not he was coming back to Bain?

That’s almost a question as basic as: Who is buried in Grant’s Tomb?

Partly poor wording on my part, and partly that you have missed my point. To wit: a 4th chair history professor might take a true sabbatical leaving behind all his duties to write a book. But an owner/CEO is never totally on leave. There is too much at stake. Whoever is picking out the blinds for the employee lunchroom and contracting with the new 401K manager is not going to make a meaningful management shift without getting the buy-off of the once and future King. That sir, is business. The meaningful part of this is that this provides no real dodge of accountability for MItt.

Democrats are willing to cause a depression to get their way on taxing the rich.

Didn’t you acknowledge in post 148 that the “job creators” weren’t creating jobs with their tax breaks? -Just waiting around for a nicer president?

The difference is that people running companies don’t have the public interest as their primary interest. They have the interest of their shareholders.

Politicians, on the other hand, should have the public interest as their primary interest.

That’s yet another example of how partisan Democrats simply don’t understand very basic things about the world. This whole issue of Romney possibly outsourcing is total nonsense only believed by extremely ignorant people. Businesses don’t run their basic operations based on the public good, although they may do certain things as PR. Politicians need to understand that, and set government policy so that what it is in the interest of business to operate in this country, as opposed to elsewhere.

Two points here:

1. Having a public interest is totally beside the point of the exchange involving post 148. The simple logic is that if the tax cuts are not helping the economy, (For whatever reason), then eliminating the tax cuts will not cause depression

2. I absolutely agree that business and many of its most dedicated champions have no interest in the public good. That is why government should have people who do have an interest in the public good. The fox making the henhouse attractive for foxes is no solution.

Apparently you didn’t do anything I asked because you still don’t understand what either a sabbatical or leave of absence is. Go to Google and learn something rather than just repeating your nonsense over again.

Perhaps I should look up “and” and “the” while I’m at it. We could put on our Jesuit collars and debate how many responsibilities one can shed or keep and still technically call yourself “on leave”. But it’s really angels dancing on a pinhead. The question is whether you believe a CEO/owner of an operating business is ever really so uninvolved in his holdings that he can credibly claim unaccountability, (see post 220).

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

I think you totally missed my point. If Romney left in 1999 to run the 2002 Olympics, when do you think he decided on whether or not he was coming back to Bain?

That’s almost a question as basic as: Who is buried in Grant’s Tomb?

Partly poor wording on my part, and partly that you have missed my point. To wit: a 4th chair history professor might take a true sabbatical leaving behind all his duties to write a book. But an owner/CEO is never totally on leave. There is too much at stake. Whoever is picking out the blinds for the employee lunchroom and contracting with the new 401K manager is not going to make a meaningful management shift without getting the buy-off of the once and future King. That sir, is business. The meaningful part of this is that this provides no real dodge of accountability for MItt.

You’re making a lot of assumptions there. That Mitt did this, that he didn’t do that. I believe those are actually good questions, but that’s not where the Obama camp went on the attack. They said he was either lying or committing a felony, where it’s actually possible he did neither. It is a valid question as to what Mitt did when. What is not valid is to make an attack on Mitt that is based on ignorance of business. President Obama has enough problems being ignorant without making more problems.

As to your assumptions, what you seemingly fail to understand is that good managers are also good delegators. It is possible that Mitt just walked away to do the Olympics leaving the company in the hands of those he put in charge. It’s also likely that he answered an occasional phone call with questions, just as anyone might do even when they leave a company for good. It’s also possible he did a lot more, and didn’t really leave. But that’s not the Obama attack.

1. Having a public interest is totally beside the point of the exchange involving post 148. The simple logic is that if the tax cuts are not helping the economy, (For whatever reason), then eliminating the tax cuts will not cause depression

2. I absolutely agree that business and many of its most dedicated champions have no interest in the public good. That is why government should have people who do have an interest in the public good. The fox making the henhouse attractive for foxes is no solution.

How do you know tax cuts are not helping the economy? Tax cuts will not eliminate the chance of recessions, but clearly tax cuts help the economy. Everyone but pfft understands that. Even President Obama understands that. That’s why he’s throwing the Social Security system under the bus to temporarily reduce Social Security taxes. Either that or he wants to kill Social Security. Which do you think it is? ;-)

And I agree government needs to be a watchdog over business. But we’re not talking about that here. We’re talking about businesses making a business decision to outsource their labor. Controlling that would not be being a watchdog, it would go well beyond that. So the remedy for that isn’t government saying businesses cannot do that, the remedy is making doing business here more attractive for business, and doing business elsewhere less attractive. I’ve mentioned repeatedly how our tax code essentially subsidizes the income taxes of other countries. Ending that would lead to more jobs here. That’s the type of thing I’m talking about, and it’s been obvious for years. Instead, because President Obama doesn’t understand business, he has no clue how to even slow down outsourcing. That’s perhaps one of the biggest of the very few advantages Romney has over President Obama.

RE:whatsmyname @ 22 – And again, you’re making a lot of assumptions. Some people can actually walk away from things being comfortable with those they’ve left in charge. I don’t find that an incredible stretch at all. I used to work for someone who would walk away for three weeks every year, being virtually completely out of contact except by (shortwave???) radio. Other people go on vacation and check their email 4 times a day. Different people are different.

“Mexicans are flooding into the USA is because greedy descendants of murdering Europeans took all of the land?”

Really?

No, they drove the Europeans that were not absorbed into the population out of Mexico and then revolted.

Mexico has a richer cultural history than we do. We just got a whole bunch of free stuff that no other country on earth was able to have. Canada is the same, but we pushed any indigenous people south of the border, and then closed it.

RE:David Losh @ 232 – You are going to have to define “Mexican” and please share your thoughts on who they are. If you study the history of Central and South America, you may conclude that unlike North America, the first wave of European invaders kept all of the land, and rented out the indigenous peoples as slaves. It ain’t the descendants of this greedy, murderous group that are sneaking across the border.

1. Having a public interest is totally beside the point of the exchange involving post 148. The simple logic is that if the tax cuts are not helping the economy, (For whatever reason), then eliminating the tax cuts will not cause depression

2. I absolutely agree that business and many of its most dedicated champions have no interest in the public good. That is why government should have people who do have an interest in the public good. The fox making the henhouse attractive for foxes is no solution.

How do you know tax cuts are not helping the economy? Tax cuts will not eliminate the chance of recessions, but clearly tax cuts help the economy. Everyone but pfft understands that.

whoa what? I’ve never said anything like that. what are you talking about? the only thing I’ve said is that taxing the rich won’t effect the economy much because their marginal propensity to consume isn’t really effected by marginal tax rate changes. I support not raising taxes on the middle class as that won’t help the economy.

“What he did was use political muscle to intervene in a bankruptcy process in order to ensure a settlement on terms favorable to his supporters, the United Auto Workers union, at the expense of taxpayers (or ‘freeloaders,’ in the president’s parlance) and bondholders. It would be more accurately characterized as an act of larceny than salvation.”

“And then of course there are people, including this writer, who regard the Obama presidency as a failed experiment in which a man with no leadership experience or executive credentials was handed the most powerful job in this nation mainly on the strength of what turned out to be his largely imagined oratory skills, plus the color of his skin. ”

Hopefully now that the experiment has run its course, liberal and conservative racial guilt has been assuaged, the “mountain top” achieved, we can all move on to someone who has the real skills need to turn this country around before it collapses into a pile of whiney entitlement and finger pointing.

RE:Scotsman @ 37 – I wouldn’t go that far and would even question whether his race was a net positive. He was elected because of his oratory skills and because he was from the opposite party as GWB at a time of great economic turmoil. I’m not sure why race even gets brought up.

How he managed to get nominated is an entirely different matter. That was pre-economic turmoil, if I recall correctly, and thus could just be perhaps explained away as yet another example of our primary system producing lousy candidates. That year was particularly bad because three senators were in the top spots.

Really? Really?! First black president in a country where slavery ended less than 150 years ago, is still a divisive issue in many eyes, urban liberal guilt flowing over, etc? And you don’t see why race even gets brought up? Just trying to be cool and totally PC, or that out of touch?

His oratory can be good when reading a speech he has practiced, but speaking off the cuff is almost always a disaster. I’m totally convinced any reasonably qualified black would have won against Bush, especially with the uncritical media support O was given. But happy feelings and warm emotions don’t add up to qualification once the work begins. O has totally failed at the job.

“What he did was use political muscle to intervene in a bankruptcy process in order to ensure a settlement on terms favorable to his supporters, the United Auto Workers union, at the expense of taxpayers (or â��freeloaders,â�� in the presidentâ��s parlance) and bondholders. It would be more accurately characterized as an act of larceny than salvation.”

“And then of course there are people, including this writer, who regard the Obama presidency as a failed experiment in which a man with no leadership experience or executive credentials was handed the most powerful job in this nation mainly on the strength of what turned out to be his largely imagined oratory skills, plus the color of his skin. ”

Hopefully now that the experiment has run its course, liberal and conservative racial guilt has been assuaged, the “mountain top” achieved, we can all move on to someone who has the real skills need to turn this country around before it collapses into a pile of whiney entitlement and finger pointing.

community organizer, lawyer and professor…leading in the polls. Defeated Hillary in the primaries and then John Mccain.

He is better than Bush. Didn’t you say you voted for him twice?

Obama has had one of the most successful presidencies considering what he walked into and the fact that he’s been obstructed every bit of the way.

RE:Scotsman @ 237 –
“We can all move on to someone who has the real skills need to turn this country around.”, said Scotsman.
Oy vey. Romney’s that guy? Romney? The uber wealthy sociopathic Ken doll? His dad was a pretty cool guy. Marched with Martin Luther King. Opposed the Vietnam war.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not an Obama fan. He’s not liberal enough for my taste.
Strikes me that whether Obama or Romney get elected, this country is in for some economic upheaval, some nasty times coming up either way.
Romney exudes smarminess, which doesn’t play well in the heartland.
Obama? Like I said, I’m not an Obama fan. He’s well intentioned, maybe, but ineffective. Bullied around by congress. That would not have been possible under LBJ. And he’s surrounded by incompetents he hired. I’d be happy to vote against Obama, it’s just that I find Romney even more unpalatable. He’s icky. He’s got cooties. I’m leaning towards Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson, but if it looks like a dead heat in WA state, I might hold my nose and vote for Obama. How’s that for a ringing endorsement?

what don’t you like about him? Obamacare alone is a historic act. It’ll will give 30 million people healthcare and will give much greater healthcare security to those that already have healthcare.

someone of your age(I’m not making fun!) should be thrilled with the pre-existing condition ban. Someone who loses their job in their 50s may have a tough time getting a new job. Under Obamacare that probably won’t be an issue.

what don’t you like about him? Obamacare alone is a historic act. It’ll will give 30 million people healthcare and will give much greater healthcare security to those that already have healthcare.

someone of your age(I’m not making fun!) should be thrilled with the pre-existing condition ban. Someone who loses their job in their 50s may have a tough time getting a new job. Under Obamacare that probably won’t be an issue.

Someone who loses their job in their 50’s may have a tough time getting a new job. Obamacare isn’t going to give 50 somethings new jobs. Perhaps you meant to state that 50 somethings who lose their jobs will still be able to have health care coverage under Obamacare.
Someone of your age(I am making fun!) might want to consider this thing called “proofreading.”
Obamacare doesn’t address the impending Medicare funding issues. It makes them worse. It borrows from Peter to pay Paul. I’m all for health care for all or even expanded Medicare, but Obamacare is going to make some private health insurance companies very wealthy. But I’m glad he got something passed. Hopefully it can get amended to make more sense. But if that’s the guy’s “signature achievement” and it’s not all that much to cheer about, what is there to be enthusiastic about?
What don’t I like about Obama? Mostly his close ties to some very wealthy folks who have too much influence, like bankers, brokerages, and the nuclear power industry.
I don’t find Obama and Romney to be too dramatically different from each other on most policy issues. Obama’s definitely the more likable of the two, but that ain’t saying much.

what don’t you like about him? Obamacare alone is a historic act. It’ll will give 30 million people healthcare and will give much greater healthcare security to those that already have healthcare.

someone of your age(I’m not making fun!) should be thrilled with the pre-existing condition ban. Someone who loses their job in their 50s may have a tough time getting a new job. Under Obamacare that probably won’t be an issue.

I don’t find Obama and Romney to be too dramatically different from each other on most policy issues.

Just saying it doesn’t make it true. Doesn’t matter how many times you say it. You say a lot, but understand so little.

prove it. The UAW was owed to it’s healthcare trust by GM legally in a 2008 deal.

“GM can’t cut benefits for our retirees, or threaten to cut them,” UAW Vice President Cal Rapson said in a statement. “And since the money for our benefits will be paid up front, our retirees will have important protections in case of changes in GM’s financial condition.”

I don’t, but the theory goes that tax cuts to the hoi palloi stimulate production as they spend their marginal new dollars for consumption. Tax cut to their betters does not do this, as those folks are pretty well satiated.

So the benefit from tax cuts to the rich is that they will tinkle down, er, I mean invest that money providing jobs and additional production. But we agreed that this isn’t happening. So cutting those tax cuts won’t really damage the economy. And it is only those tax cuts that Obama is proposing to end.

Really? Really?! First black president in a country where slavery ended less than 150 years ago, is still a divisive issue in many eyes, urban liberal guilt flowing over, etc? And you don’t see why race even gets brought up? Just trying to be cool and totally PC, or that out of touch?

. . . O has totally failed at the job.

Yep, that’s me, always trying to be hip and cool. /sarc

Seriously, I said what I meant. I don’t see his race as having necessarily been a positive factor in the general election. Some people voted for him because he was black, some people voted against him because he was black. The biggest reason he won was he was a Democrat while an economic crisis was starting under a Republican administration.

A agree though he has been a total failure. I was willing to give him a chance when he was elected, but he failed. His partisan rhetoric and anti-business rhetoric has totally turned me off, not to mention the results.

RE:Ira Sacharoff @ 45 – pfft doesn’t understand that people without jobs cannot pay for health insurance, and that those who maintain health insurance will pay more under Obamacare because they end up being the ones to pay for those who do come in with pre-existing conditions.

President Obama likes to pick the winners and losers, and in this case the winners are those who are irresponsible because you can be covered for pre-existing conditions no matter what the reason you didn’t maintain coverage. Perhaps you wanted a smartphone and HBO more than you wanted health insurance–it doesn’t matter. And the losers those who were responsible. They will pay more and more for coverage as more and more irresponsible people get added onto their insurance plan.

Et tu, Ira? Another well reasoned argument from the party of fresh ideas. God help us.

Party of fresh ideas? I’m no Democrat.

I’ve never understood why people think they have to choose between two parties, or why every candidate in one party is good and those from the other bad. The two parties are largely the problem, not some godsend system that we are fortunate to have been given access.

You can sometimes take even the most disgusting candidate and find some policy of theirs that is good. And even the candidate you like the most is likely to take some position you don’t like.

Deciding who you like by relying on political party is just being lazy.

RE:whatsmyname @ 54 – Ignore the “trickle down” theory and just focus on the basics. Taxes make people less likely to do things, all other things being equal. So, for example, if the cigarette taxes goes up, people are less likely to buy cigarettes.

The same is true of income taxes. If government is going to take more of the money you earn from a project, you’re less likely to attempt the project. Even for wage earners, if government takes more of your paycheck, you’re likely to buy fewer things. Taxes hinder economic activity, and the more taxes there are, the more activity is retarded.

Countering that is there are some very basic and very necessary government functions, and those require money. You can’t go totally without taxes. That means though what you need are the fewest taxes possible (over the long run) and taxes which have the least impact. The least impact point is why I’ve suggested increasing taxes on high W-2 income individuals. Someone is much less likely to quit their high paying job over higher taxes than not start a project, and if they do quit, someone else will take their place. That leaves the only impact of the higher taxes being that person will spend less, but that will be offset to some extent by the government spending.

“Ferguson suggests that the practice of property-owning democracy, established in America, fundamentally altered the distribution of power by giving landowners a voice in the government. Spain and England competed for New World riches. In the beginning, it seemed that South America with its abundance of gold and other natural resources, controlled by a small ruling class of conquistadors, would become the greater, more prosperous empire. However, North America, with its hardworking indentured servants and devolved land-ownership paved the way for a profitable democratic society.”

RE:Blurtman @ 261 – Having multiple people trying many different things they believe to be in their self-interest is more likely to obtain better overall results, compared to government or a small class of people running things, even with many of the individuals failing.

The best example of the failure of government planning/small ruling classes would be North Korea.

First the theory you presented would have to define the success of the West.

The United States should make deals with Mexico, and Canada to form a more perfect Union. That could save us to fight another day in what is sure to be a global economic upheaval.

My only point is that there was civilization for thousands of years before the “West” had success. We, the European idea, are the new kids on the block, and we should probably pay closer attention to other cultures.

Mitt Romney is getting ickier by the week. We’ll see where he stands after a debate with Obama. There are way too many thing to list here, from the Bain years, to retro actively retiring, to the tax return, to the wife who looks, and sounds like a Real Housewife of some place.

RE:David Losh @ 265 – Yes, those are clearly more important issues than high deficits, high unemployment, a moronic healthcare system, attacks on the First Amendment, continued war, unilaterally deciding to kill citizens of the United States, excessive use of Executive Orders, etc. I’m going to vote for President Obama because his wife supports healthy eating! /sarc

The best comment so far was on NBC, something to the effect that this is one of the most consequential but boring elections of our times: The campaigns are watching their iPhones so that they can respond within 5 minutes to the other campaign, but dealing only with issues no one cares about.

“The patience of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) with Greece comes to an end: Senior officials have told the Brussels EU leaders to information obtained by SPIEGEL, the IMF was no longer willing to provide additional funds for Greece help.

Greece is likely “ok” for the next month or so, but it will then run out of money. The political capacity of other nations to continue to dump money down a black hole of endless support for social spending not matched by tax revenues has come to an end.

Reality is that this “endpoint” exists for all nations. We here in the United States are currently suffering from the delusion that we are exempt from this process.

RE:David Losh @ 264 – True. I suppose you could use standard of living, life expectency, etc. And we are looking at the broader history than very recent times. But, yes, there is nothing objective about it.

The problem is that if you have a culture living in peace and harmony with nature, they will always be destroyed by a more technocratic society if they have something the psychos want. And I am referring to the USA, primarly, where you don’t see Native Americans regaining their land. But perhaps with gambling, maybe they will.

So one definiton of success is the capability to exert your will on other socieites, I suppose.
My dream is to be transported back in time to organize the natives to pick the Euopeans off as they try to land. Maybe it could be a movie.

My point about Mitt Romney’s wife is that she should be put on a shorter leash. She is speaking, for her husband, more than I think is prudent.

The Mitt Romney campaign had an uphill battle to begin with, but they are making several blunders along the way to the convention.

If you have something positive to point out about Mitt Romney, great, but he brought us health care reform, left his business to work on the Olympics, has deep political roots, and overt ties to a business community that deals strictly in finance. He’s a hodge podge of talking points on a resume that show little conviction, passion, or purpose.

Number one, all areas above the 45 degree north latitude were sparsely populated. The population there, in the United States, was killed off mostly by disease.

In the Plains States it was more of a battle, but again, not densely populated, so your offer to help would probably be ignored.

Superior fire power won the battles of the Americans, but that shifted, continues to shift, as time goes on.

The United States is in a futile battle to control its borders. The sooner we recognize that the better.

The United States could make a deal, right now, that would strengthen our position in the world. We have a lot going for us, but will never be able to do it alone. We’re in a time of political merger, and acquisition, in my opinion, we should get ahead of that with some pro active bridge building.

RE:Ira Sacharoff @ 45 – pfft doesn’t understand that people without jobs cannot pay for health insurance, and that those who maintain health insurance will pay more under Obamacare because they end up being the ones to pay for those who do come in with pre-existing conditions

that’s why you have mandates. for those that either can’t get due to pre-existing conditions or don’t want to get health insurance but can pay. you need mandates to spread the costs as broadly as possible and hold down costs.

RE:whatsmyname @ 54
The same is true of income taxes. If government is going to take more of the money you earn from a project, you’re less likely to attempt the project. Even for wage earners, if government takes more of your paycheck, you’re likely to buy fewer things.

link please.

it isn’t that easy. if the government taxes you and spends it on something the money is still spent. if it’s something like roads that can be beneficial.

some of the countries with the highest taxes also have the highest standards of living, the best income equality numbers AND people can easily start at the bottom of society and make it do the top.

I’ve made similar points before, but slightly different. He seems to focus more on how this spending reduces other consumer spending. My focus is more on how this spending doesn’t leave the consumer with anything at the end of the month. It’s like spending $100 on drinks every month, as opposed to furniture.

I’m not sure changing the spending matters that much because the spending still results in jobs expanding, upgrading and even maintaining the wireless networks.

RE:pfft @ 279 – Lots of theories including the prevalence of corn byproducts in the food chain. I do know that even without increasing exercize/calorie burn, that if you lessen carb intake (South Beach), you do lose weight.

You can find lots of links for the correlation between stress and weight gain. Needless to say, stress is mentally derived, but has physical downstream effects. Look at the growth in negative news and the growth in tools for delivering the news. The increase in the efficency of the delvery of stress inducing inputs (internet, etc.), and the increase in the amount of and power of stress inducing inputs (the economy/job loss/debt) likely has an effect.

You can indirectly kill someone by increasing their stress level sufficently, so that taking their own life becomes an unfortunate outcome, Another reason to kill the bankers.

We tag along with Mr. Barofsky, a former federal prosecutor, as he walks into a political buzz saw as the special inspector general for TARP. Government officials, he says, eagerly served Wall Street interests at the public’s expense, and regulators were captured by the very industry they were supposed to be regulating. He says he was warned about being too aggressive in his work, lest he jeopardize his future career.

“The suspicions that the system is rigged in favor of the largest banks and their elites, so they play by their own set of rules to the disfavor of the taxpayers who funded their bailout, are true,” Mr. Barofsky said in an interview last week. “It really happened. These suspicions are valid.”

“There has to be wide-scale acknowledgment that regulatory capture exists, dominates our system and needs to be eradicated,” Mr. Barofsky said in the interview. “It was my job to bring as much transparency to taxpayers so they knew what was going on. Writing the book, I tried to bring the same level of transparency so people understand how captured their government has become to the financial interests.”

you can’t even answer my questions above nor can cite real examples of Obama being anti-business. you can only cite some off the cuff remarks nearly 4 years ago about a group of 30 banks and one city…

like I said before. record corporate profits.

the biggest problem facing business today is business. they destroyed the economy in 2008 and have been sucking the life out of the worker for the last 30 years. of course there is less demand. all the money is in corporate accounts and with the 1%.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we donâ��t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

RE:David Losh @ 274 – I was thinking more in terms of the Northeast coast initially. Pick off those pesky Puritans as they made their way to shore. Here come the enslavers and land stealers! Nip it in the bud now.

RE:David Losh @ 274 – I was thinking more in terms of the Northeast coast initially. Pick off those pesky Puritans as they made their way to shore. Here come the enslavers and land stealers! Nip it in the bud now.

Thanksgiving would be a whole different holiday. It would be a tribal holiday, commemorating the defeat of the white invaders.

“What’s the difference between the US and Europe?” ‘About Six Years’ is the punchline that CNBC’s Rick Santelli ascribes the apparently magnanimous view that Europe is so much different from us. Between PIMCO’s Kashkari pontificating on unsustainable debt (and the Fed’s need to ‘do something’, and Liesman still defending the Fed with all his might, Santelli loses it – noting Kashkari’s intelligence, he rhetorically asks “Do you really think [the Fed] is the solution?” – and rightly so. “It’s all band-aids,” he exclaims, adding that “the problem is insolvency.”

dumb question. first of all not all of Europe is doing bad. Generous welfare states like Norway or Sweden are booming and their interest rates are really low. they have their own currency like us. they are more like our situation. Now by Europe I would guess you mean the countries that share the euro currency. Well those nations face vastly different situations. The core has low interest rates like us. The PIIGS are a disaster because of the gold-standard like restrictions of the euro. they need massive deflation and are getting austerity which is destroying their countries. so if you want us to be “Europe” just push for austerity!

RE:pfft @ 293 – but he is an entertaining moron, in the sour faced, complaining mode. Scottsman doesn’t get that these folks are entertainers.

and also that they don’t know anything. CNBC sucks! They are pro-wall st. they are wall st apologist. Anyone see Maria Bartiromo interview Eliot Spitzer? Anyone see her interview Bill Daly? Anyone see her report on residents supposedly “fleeing” high-tax states? Funny because Maria is from Brooklyn and has made tens of millions of dollars in New York State.

I remember on the eve of one of the greatest financial crises we’ve ever seen Larry Kudlow shouting at me goldilocks and greatest story never told. embarassing.

Interesting clip, and I did have this conversation with a group of hard core Republicans on Saturday.

The end result was that in Europe they had property prices triple in ten years. The Euro started out at, I think eighty cents to the dollar, then exploded to a dollar thirty. That added to the mortgage amounts for the consumer, but also the costs for the infrastructure.

In my opinion a lot of people made a lot of money with the invention of the Euro,

Now that the Euro is declining there will be real problems paying back debt. The report I read this morning is that Germany, and France are worried that the investments they have made in the Euro bloc will not be repaid.

If the financial market freezes up, and goes into default in Europe, all of Europe collapses.

The difference here, in the United States, is that we had a stable currency to begin with. Our market place over heated by double digits for three years to a thirty per cent increase, and topped out at doubling our property price. We have bankruptcy. We have many mechanism that can correct our economy that Europe does not.

Bottom line is that money will flow here, because really it has no better place to go.

And every dummy who doesn’t understand math, statistics, sampling, etc. falls for it. Here’s the kicker- when a poll that favors democrats by 11 points has has Obama up 6/9 it really means the big O is losing by 2-5 points. And every village idiot laps it up.

Since I think this post will start a new page, let’s begin with a real badass presidential speech. It’s incredible how relevant it still is.

This concentration of wealth and power has been built upon other people’s money, other people’s business, other people’s labor. Under this concentration independent business was allowed to exist only by sufferance. It has been a menace to the social system as well as to the economic system which we call American democracy.
…
I believe in individualism. I believe in it in the arts, the sciences and professions. I believe in it in business. I believe in individualism in all of these things—up to the point where the individualist starts to operate at the expense of society. The overwhelming majority of American business men do not believe in it beyond that point. We have all suffered in the past from individualism run wild. Society has suffered and business has suffered. The people of America have no quarrel with business. They insist only that the power of concentrated wealth shall not be abused.

RE:uwp @ 303 – I think maybe rather than comparing their political leanings, it might be important to consider the times. 1936 relative to 2012, relative to the Great Depression and the Great Recession.

And every dummy who doesn’t understand math, statistics, sampling, etc. falls for it. Here’s the kicker- when a poll that favors democrats by 11 points has has Obama up 6/9 it really means the big O is losing by 2-5 points. And every village idiot laps it up.

RE:pfft @ 96 – Actually, when you lever a company up with debt to acquire it – the Bain LBO model – you are essentially using a tax shield to acquire the company. So Bain and Romney profited by not paying taxes. Brilliant!

“Why must Obama spend so much money to find his way? Voters are likely to be turned off to realize that even a teleprompter is not enough for this president. He also needs a phalanx of pollsters to tell him what to say.”

RE:pfft @ 96 – Actually, when you lever a company up with debt to acquire it – the Bain LBO model – you are essentially using a tax shield to acquire the company. So Bain and Romney profited by not paying taxes. Brilliant!

Huh? Are you a doctor? In business school they use to teach us that doctors would flush a dollar down the toilet to save 30 cents on their taxes. That seems to be what you’re advocating. I really doubt that was Bain’s strategy.

I notice most people don’t have positive Mitt Romney politico speak, everything seems to be very defensive, but let me get this straight.

First Mitt Romney was a captan of industry until they found he was using tax breaks, out sourcing, bankruptcy, and asset sales just to make a profit.

So instead the Romney camp changed course, and had him retroactively retired from Bain, and instead he was actually a community organizer for the Olympics. Never mind the other thousands of volunteers, Mitt was the figure head there also.

To add to the voter confusion the Mitt Romney campaign has Mitt standing at a podium that says to Repeal ObamaCare, which was patterned after legislation Mitt Romney championed while he was governor.

So it appears Mitt Romney is a community organizer who brought us Health Care Reform.

RE:pfft @ 96 – Actually, when you lever a company up with debt to acquire it – the Bain LBO model – you are essentially using a tax shield to acquire the company. So Bain and Romney profited by not paying taxes. Brilliant!

yep. Debt has tax breaks that equity doesn’t get in those types of deals.

Much of what private equity does is financial engineering. For example, it is standard to load up the companies they purchase with debt. The resulting interest payments are tax deductible. This increases profitability but creates no value for the economy. It simply transfers money from taxpayers to the private equity company.

RE:pfft @ 96 – Actually, when you lever a company up with debt to acquire it – the Bain LBO model – you are essentially using a tax shield to acquire the company. So Bain and Romney profited by not paying taxes. Brilliant!

Huh? Are you a doctor? In business school they use to teach us that doctors would flush a dollar down the toilet to save 30 cents on their taxes. That seems to be what you’re advocating. I really doubt that was Bain’s strategy.

no on some Bain deals Romney would “buy” company, load it up with debt, pay themselves a dividend(with that borrowed money) for all that hard work and basically loot the company and sell it before it went bankrupt under the debt load.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 317 – Not at all. I am no expert on LBO’s, although my master’s thesis was on LBO’s, using the model to identify pharmas that could be taken over.

But one does use a tax shield to take over firms in an LBO. That is indisputable. What happens in an LBO is that a company with earnings is saddled by takeover debt, maximally with interest on the debt eroding earnings to zero, The debt is used to offer a big enough premium to enough existing shareholders, so that you can acquire a majority interest in the company and take it over. You are buying a firm with borrowed money, and saddling the acquired firm with that debt, wiping out earnings in the process, which wipes out taxes paid by the firm. And of course you pay yourself and your colleagues massive fees, sell off the assets, e.g. the RE that the plant is on, take the money, and run.

Consider Ajax Corporation, whose stock is trading at $5 per share, and that has $20 million in earnings. Let’s say they have a market cap of $200 million, or that there are 40 million ourstanding shares. Let’s say you need 21 million shares to take over the company. Let’s say interest on the debt is 10%. That $20 million in earnings therefore enables me to borrow $200 million, as the interest payment will be $20 million, taking earnings to zero. I then take that $200 million, and pay $9.52 bucks a share for the 21 million shares. That is almost doubling the share price, so who wouldn’t sell? Of course I make blustery speeches of how I am maximizing shareholder value, and I am for those 21 million shareholders. I then take over the company with borrowed money. The company’s earnings go to zero because of the debt load, and the company goes from paying taxes, to paying no taxes.

I sell off assets, fire workers, sell the remaining shell to another company, and buy another house in the Hamptons. That’s why these folks are called corporate raiders. They are raiding the company, stealing its value, and often times, sinking it to enrich the raiders.

So Romney is basically a licking parasite, but Geroge W. was a war criminal. Great party, eh?

You can set up a program to identify these plums, companies with enough earnings and a favorable market cap, so that you could saddle the company with enough debt to buy 51% of the shares. You’d also look at assets that could be sold off, etc. The taxpayer foots the bill, directly, as the taxes paid by the firm go bye-bye when it is acquired with debt in an LBO.

Choices, choices- vote for a guy who gets criticized for speaking the truth about something he has direct experience and noted success in, or vote for a known loser.

Word on the street- Obama has conceded that he will have to cut entitlements- big time- in a second term. There goes the base . . .

But none of that will be revealed until he’s re-elected. You don’t tell people bad news when you’re campaigning. Between China slowing, Europe collapsing, and the US mired in high unemployment, we’re seemingly headed for a perfect storm. Obama won’t have much choice.

Choices, choices- vote for a guy who gets criticized for speaking the truth about something he has direct experience and noted success in, or vote for a known loser.

I am surprised you are calling mitt romney a loser.

Let’s see what Obama has accomplished. Remember he came into office with 2 wars, a historic financial crisis and on the heels of one of the worst president’s we ever had.

1. Enacted a stimulus which saved or created millions of jobs.

2. Saved the US auto business and the midwest.

3. Got us out of Iraq

4. Got Bin Laden.

5. Passed a healthcare plan that will ensure up to 30 million Americans, saved seniors billions in drug costs, ended lifetime and yearly spending caps on care, ended pre-existing conditions and any other number of things.

That makes him a pretty successful president especially in light of what he inherited.

The market I watch more closely is in Spain where the government is in trouble, but the banks may be to blame:

” An aid package worth up to (EURO)100 billion ($123 billion) to help Spain’s banks, which are laden with soured investments following a property sector collapse, is “sufficiently large.” Spain’s budget-cutting and economic reform efforts will have positive effects, “on the financial markets too.”

What never gets addressed, the same as what never gets addressed here, is that people owe on those mortgages. If a large per cent of income goes to paying the mortgage, or debt in general, the financial markets may be fine, but a consumer based economy tanks.

Personally I wouldn’t want to have a beer with either one of them. Hypothetically I’d vote for Donald Trump for President (my example of perhaps the most unlikable candidate this year) if I lost my mind and for some reason thought he could get the job done. There’s no way likability should trump competence, but I guess it does. How else can you explain the US Senate?

This is a scary thought. Voters might vote for President Obama, even thinking he’s less qualified, because they find him more likable.

where to you find the fact that he’s less qualified? I don’t see that question.

Don’t trust voters on issues that much. They think Romney will be better for the deficit. Romney will add $5 trillion to the deficit. He’s promises to end certain tax deductions but won’t tell us which one’s AND it’s almost mathematically impossible to cut the deficit like that.

Obama can’t be judged on which is better to create jobs or handle the economy because his policies are blocked by Republicans. His Jobs Act would have added millions to the work rolls and his recently blocked small business tax cut would do the same.

Americans wouldn’t like Romney on taxes if they knew his plan. Same for healthcare where they are tied.

Why Obamacare is a monumental(BFD?) achievement. Nobody should have to sell t-shirts to stay alive.

Guha has Stage 4 colon cancer, a diagnosis that comes with an 8.1 percent survival rate. While he does have health insurance, a student plan through Arizona State, it has a lifetime limit of $300,000 in medical expenses. Guha has spent all of that, largely on chemotherapy sessions that cost $11,000 each.

“We spend 18 percent of our GDP on health care, 10 percentage points more. That gap, that 10 percent cost, compare that with the size of our military — our military which is 4 percent, 4 percent. Our gap with Israel is 10 points of GDP. We have to find ways — not just to provide health care to more people, but to find ways to fund and manage our health care costs.”

Exit quotation from a Chick-fil-A customer: “He (Dan Cathy) said the exact same thing that President Obama said. And he gets negativity, and Obama gets positivity.” Yes, because Obama’s a cynical, self-interested liar and literally everyone knows it.

Given that Japan is dying economically this is not good news- check out the chart at the top of the link:

“As JPMorgan economist Michael Feroli notes:
The poster child for slow growth coming out of a debt-fuelled financial crisis has to be Japan, which ever since the early 1990s has had trouble getting a head of steam. The recession which kicked off Japan’s “lost decade” lasted from 1991 to 1993. Including the recovery experience from that recession is sobering: we are currently faring worse than Japan at the same point in their lost decade.”

Romney said that Obama takes his cues from Europe. Then Romney goes to Israel and Poland and marvels at their economies. Both have universal healthcare and both are socialist. He specifically praised Israel’s healthcare system which is heavily socialized. Maybe even more than Romneycare. In Israel you have a mandate, not at the equivalent of the state level, but the whole country.

Partisan Democrats are getting desperate, or they continue to not understand simple English. Clinton didn’t understand the meaning of the word “is.” Against Bush, partisan Democrats didn’t understand the meaning of the word “lie.” Here they don’t understand that the word “that” is singular, in President Obama’s case referring to the business. “You didn’t build those” would mean what the Democrats claim, but they are too stupid or too embarrassed by their candidate’s language to admit that.

But hey, we’re making progress. Partisan Democrats now apparently understand two and three letter words. Maybe four years from now they’ll understand four letter words! /sarc

And what they’re completely ignoring is the correct interpretation of this quote (that “that” means the business) is entirely consistent with the way President Obama views the world. He thinks jobs and everything good is created by the government. The surprise wasn’t that he thinks that, but that he admitted it.

Partisan Democrats are getting desperate, or they continue to not understand simple English.

1. Obama is up, we aren’t desperate. He is.

2. The President simply misspoke.

Context as always. Here is a line later in the speech.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

3. “He thinks jobs and everything good is created by the government.”

No he doesn’t. That’s just nonsense. Your comment just reveals what you think of the President, not what he actually believes. It’s right there for those who want to see.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

Speaking of desperate, we desperately need two taxes to deal with our problems.

A revenue neutral carbon tax with tax breaks or rebates for the poor to solve our pollution, health and climate change problem.

A financial transactions tax to lessen the burden of the financial sector that will function as a way to payback the bailouts, payback future bailouts, build out our infrastructure and be used to make public college free.

RE:Kary L. Krismer @ 354 – Why limit your criticisms to only Democrats? Surely a president who murdered women and children in Iraq and then laughed about it merits some criticism as well, no? And are not war crimes a slightyl more serious matter than semantic hedging?

RE:Blurtman @ 360 – I don’t like partisan Republicans any better, but at least their arguments demonstrate a basic understanding of the English language. “Mission accomplished” would be another example of PD’s not understanding English. It’s a pattern that bothers me.

Basically partisan Republicans’ arguments are stupid in a different way than the arguments of partisan Democrats. For example, “the sanctity of marriage” shows they understand English, but not the real world.

I’ve wanted a third political party for years–one that positions itself in the narrow space between the two parties. That way the extremists can stay with the existing parties and the moderates can do to the new party.

RE:Blurtman @ 360 – I don’t like partisan Republicans any better, but at least their arguments demonstrate a basic understanding of the English language.

You’re just unbelievable. You know how many verbal gaffes Bush made? You know how many Republicans say the “democrat party” in speeches?

We do have a third party, it’s made up of independents. They sometimes vote for democrats and sometimes they vote for republicans. The country is changing though. Soon the democrats will be a majority party due to demographics and the increasing extremistm in the republican party.

RE:pfft @ 62 – I am one of those Independents. I don’ think I ever voted Republican. But I will not vote for Obama or Patty Murray again. I voted for Murray the last time because of the close election versus Rossi. But that’s it. I will write in a more suitable candidate henceforth.

why? if Romney wins the new deal could go away. Medicare will whither. Tax cuts for the rich will swell the deficit. Romney wants to deregulate Wall St. He wants less regulations on corporations. He will gut environmental regulations. If you stay home you could be helping the tea party. now isn’t the time to throw your hands up in the air and sit on your hands come election day.

RE:Blurtman @ 360 – I don’t like partisan Republicans any better, but at least their arguments demonstrate a basic understanding of the English language.

You’re just unbelievable. You know how many verbal gaffes Bush made? You know how many Republicans say the “democrat party” in speeches?

We do have a third party, it’s made up of independents. They sometimes vote for democrats and sometimes they vote for republicans. The country is changing though. Soon the democrats will be a majority party due to demographics and the increasing extremistm in the republican party.

A verbal gaffe is entirely different than a written speech that has a gaffe: “You didn’t build that.” A verbal gaff is entirely different than repeating the same nonsense over and over and over: “Bush lied;” or mocking “Mission Accomplished.” The former is a mistake and something everyone does at some point in time. The latter shows a near complete lack of understanding of the English language and a low level of education. It’s something to be ashamed of.

As to independents, I like them. I am one, although I’m so disappointed with most politicians at this point I don’t really like any politicians much at all. But independents are sort of like the Occupy movement. Totally unorganized and ineffective. To be effective they need to have their own party so that some elected officials won’t cater to the extreme left or extreme right.