As RBF has said, I'd feel MUCH more comfortable taking Carter or Armstrong in round 2 than Davenport in round 1....

If Chubb is gone, either take Nelson (for the "elite" guy) or Vea (to transform our DL)...

Agreed. I'd take Vea over Davenport at 7. But if Nelson is there you take him over either, even if we signed Norwell in FA. If Nelson is on the board at 7 he'll likely have such a higher draft grade than Vea, Davenport, or whoever else that it would be reckless to pass on him.

If you're drafting top 10 get the best damn player you can. As the draft progresses positional needs are factored in more imo. But early on is where teams have their best odds to get All-Pro/Pro-Bowl talent. So trust your evaluations and take the best player you can.

Guys like Dorance Armstrong, Josh Sweat, Arden Key, Andrew Brown, and host of others could be there at 38th overall and who knows what DL/EDGE guys will be there early in round 3. The Bucs could easily go DLine with BOTH day 2 picks if we drafted Nelson (or Barkley) at 7th overall.

real bucs fan wrote:I'm talking about not forcing picks. There are a handful of spots on this team where we are stacked: QB, WR, TE, and LB. That still leaves 14 of 22 starting positions that I'd go. Everyone agrees we desperately need an EDGE rusher. What I'm saying is that I'm not going to force one at 7. Basically if Chubb is off the board, I'm not going to force pick Davenport or Arden Key because we're desperate. I'll go with the best talent available outside of those handful of positions where we are loaded.

There's a difference between reaching and taking a risk because a guy has special talent at a position of need. Sometimes "Going BPA" is a way of saying, "Being unwilling to take a risk." Sometimes taking a risk is the only way to fix your problems. Sitting on our thumbs and waiting for a sure-thing-can't-miss-no-flags rusher is why we haven't had a pass rush since 2003.

real bucs fan wrote:I'm talking about not forcing picks. There are a handful of spots on this team where we are stacked: QB, WR, TE, and LB. That still leaves 14 of 22 starting positions that I'd go. Everyone agrees we desperately need an EDGE rusher. What I'm saying is that I'm not going to force one at 7. Basically if Chubb is off the board, I'm not going to force pick Davenport or Arden Key because we're desperate. I'll go with the best talent available outside of those handful of positions where we are loaded.

There's a difference between reaching and taking a risk because a guy has special talent at a position of need. Sometimes "Going BPA" is a way of saying, "Being unwilling to take a risk." Sometimes taking a risk is the only way to fix your problems. Sitting on our thumbs and waiting for a sure-thing-can't-miss-no-flags rusher is why we haven't had a pass rush since 2003.

I disagree...

Deciding "we are taking a pass rusher no matter what because our pass rush is ****ing horrid" has netted us Gaines Adams and AClay in round 1 and IR captains Bowers and Price in round 2...

As RBF has said, I'd feel MUCH more comfortable taking Carter or Armstrong in round 2 than Davenport in round 1....

If Chubb is gone, either take Nelson (for the "elite" guy) or Vea (to transform our DL)...

Agreed. I'd take Vea over Davenport at 7. But if Nelson is there you take him over either, even if we signed Norwell in FA. If Nelson is on the board at 7 he'll likely have such a higher draft grade than Vea, Davenport, or whoever else that it would be reckless to pass on him.

If you're drafting top 10 get the best damn player you can. As the draft progresses positional needs are factored in more imo. But early on is where teams have their best odds to get All-Pro/Pro-Bowl talent. So trust your evaluations and take the best player you can.

Guys like Dorance Armstrong, Josh Sweat, Arden Key, Andrew Brown, and host of others could be there at 38th overall and who knows what DL/EDGE guys will be there early in round 3. The Bucs could easily go DLine with BOTH day 2 picks if we drafted Nelson (or Barkley) at 7th overall.

MJW wrote:There's a difference between reaching and taking a risk because a guy has special talent at a position of need. Sometimes "Going BPA" is a way of saying, "Being unwilling to take a risk." Sometimes taking a risk is the only way to fix your problems. Sitting on our thumbs and waiting for a sure-thing-can't-miss-no-flags rusher is why we haven't had a pass rush since 2003.

I disagree...

Deciding "we are taking a pass rusher no matter what because our pass rush is ****ing horrid" has netted us Gaines Adams and AClay in round 1 and IR captains Bowers and Price in round 2...

Agreed. Missing on first and second round draft picks along the Dline plus letter Bennett walk for nothing is why the Bucs haven't had a pass rush.

I get the logic of rolling the dice a need in hopes of addressing it and there is some data that supports good Dlinemen are more difficult to find after day 1 compared to most other positions.

I love how every year people start freaking out that their guy won't be there. People fall. People reach for players. All kinds of stuff happens. VH3 wasn't suppose to be there, Howard wasn't suppose to be there, etc. Trading up for Chubbs would be stupid.

Doctor wrote:I love how every year people start freaking out that their guy won't be there. People fall. People reach for players. All kinds of stuff happens. VH3 wasn't suppose to be there, Howard wasn't suppose to be there, etc. Trading up for Chubbs would be stupid.

I don't think anyone ever said anything about VH3 not being there..

And now, I wish he wasn't...

Classic case of "we need a corner so we're taking a corner" AND trading down for no damn reason....

Should've stayed put and selected Tunsil...OL would've been fixed, DBs would be no worse off..

MJW wrote:There's a difference between reaching and taking a risk because a guy has special talent at a position of need. Sometimes "Going BPA" is a way of saying, "Being unwilling to take a risk." Sometimes taking a risk is the only way to fix your problems. Sitting on our thumbs and waiting for a sure-thing-can't-miss-no-flags rusher is why we haven't had a pass rush since 2003.

I disagree...

Deciding "we are taking a pass rusher no matter what because our pass rush is ****ing horrid" has netted us Gaines Adams and AClay in round 1 and IR captains Bowers and Price in round 2...

Gaines Adams was a reach. Nobody was happy with that pick then, and nobody is defending it.

AJ Clay? Should have been Cameron Jordan. I said so at the time. In which case, nobody is complaining. Brian Price, how about Carlos Dunlap?

Doctor wrote:I love how every year people start freaking out that their guy won't be there. People fall. People reach for players. All kinds of stuff happens. VH3 wasn't suppose to be there, Howard wasn't suppose to be there, etc. Trading up for Chubbs would be stupid.

Classic case of "we need a corner so we're taking a corner"

And yet, this is what you seem to be advocating for this year, with a DE.

real bucs fan wrote:I'm talking about not forcing picks. There are a handful of spots on this team where we are stacked: QB, WR, TE, and LB. That still leaves 14 of 22 starting positions that I'd go. Everyone agrees we desperately need an EDGE rusher. What I'm saying is that I'm not going to force one at 7. Basically if Chubb is off the board, I'm not going to force pick Davenport or Arden Key because we're desperate. I'll go with the best talent available outside of those handful of positions where we are loaded.

mdb1958 wrote:When the combine happens I expect more offensive linemen in the top 100.

I'm of the opinion that this is a ridiculously talented and deep OL class, deepest I've seen in years. Don't really know how the combine will factor into it, but I do expect to see a high number of OL get drafted in the first 3 rounds of the draft. I think the reason folks haven't quite grasped this yet is that the bluechip generational stud at the top of the class is a guard and not an OT.

Ok, well since I don't have any other info to go off of (who did we re-sign, nab in FA etc) I'm gonna just have to go off of what we have now..

IMO, in the draft one just can't be a "need" drafter or a "BPA" drafter, there has to be a plan..

Our teams weakest spots (again, my opinion) and YES, they are in order...

1 DL (which includes the DE position)2 CB3 OL4 RB

Now onto the players you listed..

The TE is out/a no go..why?..because we drafted our phenom last year..but we need a backup, right?..not if we kept Brate, and if we didn't it means our FO has enough faith in Auclair that he can be our #2 guy...

Your LB is a luxury pick, another solid inside guy..yes he's got the size to play outside (maybe), but we'd have to teach him..EVEN if we went to a 3-4, he'd be a project OLB, we don't have time to teach, we need impact players on the edge, or ANOTHER inside guy...

I'm not a big Michel fan...he and Chubb remind me of the Caddy/Brown Auburn backfield....good in a tandem...yes I know we have Barber, but he's better as a #2, if not #3, punch...Michel, to me, is a 3rd down back, a change of pace guy...I want a big, solid, bruising 1 cut RB as our main guy...watching Ajayi and Blount run the ball in the SB made my mouth water...

So, my selection by deduction is your CB, Mr Alexander....he's got decent size and speed, has a knack for creating turnovers, is an aggressive CB (which I like), and can help in our return game..not too mention he checks off a position of need coming in at #2 on my list and that we have pretty much ignored outside of VH3, late rounders, and FA....

Doctor wrote:I love how every year people start freaking out that their guy won't be there. People fall. People reach for players. All kinds of stuff happens. VH3 wasn't suppose to be there, Howard wasn't suppose to be there, etc. Trading up for Chubbs would be stupid.

I don't think anyone ever said anything about VH3 not being there..

And now, I wish he wasn't...

Classic case of "we need a corner so we're taking a corner" AND trading down for no damn reason....

Should've stayed put and selected Tunsil...OL would've been fixed, DBs would be no worse off..

real bucs fan wrote:I think the obvious directions we can go in round 1 are LT, DL, or DB. If we are say picking 9th, I think Tunsil and Stanley will be long gone, and I think Hargreaves and Ramsey are off the board as well. Those are the only LTs or DBs from this draft worthy of top 10 picks IMO. I think with the depth of this draft, we will be in fine position to address the d-line.

SIBucsFan wrote: If Hargreaves is at 9, which at the moment I don't believe I see happening, I would choose Hargreaves.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:There are no guarantees VH3 will be there.

DreadNaught wrote:I'd love for Ramsey or Hargreaves to fall to us at #9, but the odds aren't good.

Just off a quick search. And iirc, many had him not falling to us during the combine in particuar.

Classic case of "we need a corner so we're taking a corner" AND trading down for no damn reason....

Should've stayed put and selected Tunsil...OL would've been fixed, DBs would be no worse off..

real bucs fan wrote:I think the obvious directions we can go in round 1 are LT, DL, or DB. If we are say picking 9th, I think Tunsil and Stanley will be long gone, and I think Hargreaves and Ramsey are off the board as well. Those are the only LTs or DBs from this draft worthy of top 10 picks IMO. I think with the depth of this draft, we will be in fine position to address the d-line.

SIBucsFan wrote: If Hargreaves is at 9, which at the moment I don't believe I see happening, I would choose Hargreaves.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:There are no guarantees VH3 will be there.

DreadNaught wrote:I'd love for Ramsey or Hargreaves to fall to us at #9, but the odds aren't good.

Just off a quick search. And iirc, many had him not falling to us during the combine in particuar.

Damn it got quiet in here after you posted this, Dr. But I agree and I don't know why people don't get it yet. The favorites in January/February, unless they are must have, no flaws type of talents have a good chance of falling in the draft. They fall, others rise. Happens every year. Hell I remember 2011, Von Miller wasnt a projected top 5 pick until the last 2 weeks prior to that draft.

real bucs fan wrote:If I recall, Hargreaves stock took a bit of a hit when he came in shorter and slower at the combine than anticipated. Most thought he was a 5'11" 4.4 guy, when he actually was a 5'10" 4.5 guy.

No his stock didn't take a hit. Other guys just rose, namely Goff & Wentz. But no one anticipated him being a 5-11/4.4 guy. And even if they did he didn't fall 2-3 spots because of it.

Classic case of "we need a corner so we're taking a corner" AND trading down for no damn reason....

Should've stayed put and selected Tunsil...OL would've been fixed, DBs would be no worse off..

real bucs fan wrote:I think the obvious directions we can go in round 1 are LT, DL, or DB. If we are say picking 9th, I think Tunsil and Stanley will be long gone, and I think Hargreaves and Ramsey are off the board as well. Those are the only LTs or DBs from this draft worthy of top 10 picks IMO. I think with the depth of this draft, we will be in fine position to address the d-line.

SIBucsFan wrote: If Hargreaves is at 9, which at the moment I don't believe I see happening, I would choose Hargreaves.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:There are no guarantees VH3 will be there.

DreadNaught wrote:I'd love for Ramsey or Hargreaves to fall to us at #9, but the odds aren't good.

Just off a quick search. And iirc, many had him not falling to us during the combine in particuar.