You keep mixing up derivatives and cognates. "liber" is not derived from "eleutheros" but rather cognate with it. Both developed concomitantly from Proto-Indo-European. Look at this entry from etymonline.com for "liberal."

I would really love to learn the bibliography behind this nonsense. I mean I have my suspicions and I know that divulging such information will not mean much to most but it will to me. So how about informing us where these come from? Since people around here are so nice that they don't ban you?

annis wrote:Actually comparing cognates in Greek, Latin and English would be interesting to me. But the assertion that Latin derives from Greek is a serious flaw.

I don't think Latin is as old a language as Greek is, is it? Is it not possible that some Latin vocabulary derived direcrtly from Greek rather than from a common parent?
edit: I guess then it is likely called a loan-word.

Bert wrote:I don't think Latin is as old a language as Greek is, is it? Is it not possible that some Latin vocabulary derived direcrtly from Greek rather than from a common parent?edit: I guess then it is likely called a loan-word.

It depends on what you mean: the written, codified Latin language is later than Greek, but people still spoke Latin before. Languages aren't made suddenly.
A lot of Latin words derived from Greek (e.g. philosophia, ecclesia, ipotheca), like from other languages (from Gallic: bracae, lancia; from pre-indoreupean languages e.g. Alpes). It happens to Greek too - e.g. labyrinthos - and to most languages (e.g. in Italian bistecca from beef steak etc.), but like Italian doesn't derived from English, so Latin doesn't come from Greek.

Generally speaking (I am not addressing to you Bert ), I really do not like nationalism, maybe here in Italy we had too much rethorical speeches about "we-are-the-heirs-of-Romans" only seventy years ago.
As Europeans (including all the modern civilizations of European origin) we have a big debt towards Greek culture. In many ways, we are still Greeks ourselves. We cannot fully understand our poets, our philosophy, our maths, in one word, our culture without the Greek one; and I would add: without the Latin one as well. Moreover, as Italian I feel a stronger Greek legacy; in some parts of the country people still speak Greek, like the heel of Italy, the Salento where I've been two years ago and I had the honour and privilege to listen the old beautiful language.
Again, the modern Greece has vibrant and interesting culture, even the populare one (by the way why they don't sell the show "Ta hellados paideia" abroad?).

Such nationalistic Portokalos' idea that everything comes from Greek, make a parody of our great inheritance and, even if it can give us some hilarious time, I think it is dangerous for the Greeks themselves.

I wrote a long post but then said the hell with it. The only thing I can say to this voluble, loud and thankfully small minority of Greeks is that instead of embarrassing the rest of us, they should perhaps take their eyes off the past and see how they can become worthy of our long culture (and it wouldn't be long if it stopped at ancient times you know). Plus, like the "Young Men of Sidon (A.D. 400)" they just don't get what the ancient Greek civilisation was, it seems.

Pehaps such people should search the web for the word Î·Î¼Î¹Î¼Î¬Î¸ÎµÎ¹Î± and read some of the results.

This comic nationalism reminds me of the character of father of the bride in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"

Gus Portokalos: You know, the root of the word Miller is a Greek word. Miller come from the Greek word "milo," which is mean "apple," so there you go. As many of you know, our name, Portokalos, is come from the Greek word "portokali," which mean "orange." So, okay? Here tonight, we have, ah, apple and orange. We all different, but in the end, we all fruit.

Gus Portokalos: There are two kinds of people - Greeks, and everyone else who wish they was Greek.

Ouch. Some strong emotions attached to this topic. Believe me, I didn't write the initial post thinking that Greek is the mother language of them all. After all, Greek is derived from Dutch. (Actually, Dutch has so many dialects that some jest the Tower of Babel must have been in the Netherlands.)
Every(?) modern language has loan words; There must be words that have become Latin words because they originally were borrowed for Greek, and vice versa.
Does anyone here know how old the oldest Latin writings are?

Ps. Who is this Gus Portokalos you are talking about? Is that some proverbial nationalist like Yankee Doodle?

The oldest written Latin is an inscription dating to ~700 BC or older, at the end of the legendary Etruscan dominion, in ancient Latin, discovered on an ancient altar underneath the Forum. Check thelatinlibrary.com.

Lucus Eques wrote:The oldest written Latin is an inscription dating to ~700 BC or older, at the end of the legendary Etruscan dominion, in ancient Latin, discovered on an ancient altar underneath the Forum. Check thelatinlibrary.com.