In reply to no one claims to have seen God, posted by rnny on March 21, 2010, at 1:03:12

> No one claims to have seen God yet many worship him. How could that be?

There are plenty of people whom have claimed to have seen God. I've come close. I can see all around me evidence of His being. How else can man explain existence? The Big Band attempts to explain "how". It can never explain "why".

In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by Sigismund on March 22, 2010, at 21:23:06

> Cormac McCarthy is brilliant on dualism in "The Crossing".

I like the concept of dualism. It is sort of like light - wave versus particle. It helps to explain the coexistence of fate and free will. It works for me, anyway.

I still think "why" is a valid interrogative that serves to invite the formation of a construct that fills a need to explain existence. In my mind, the Universe existed before the Big Bang. It was a singularity of virtually infinite density. What, then, was the origin of the singularity? Why existence? Why bother with existence at all? I once asked of an acquaintance why God would create a universe. His answer to me was to propose that perhaps God wanted a relationship.

In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by Sigismund on March 22, 2010, at 21:23:06

I totally agree with your comments on religion.

God hates Religion too...He always has.

I believe "religion" is the devil's counterfiet to what God really desires..."relationship".The Bible is clear that developing a personal relationship with our Creator is of unequivical importance to..and in fact one of the main reasons for Life itself:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life.

NOTHING about religion in that verse.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Only faith is required to earn God's unmerited favor

When Jesus was here on earth in the flesh...He reaffirmed what God had said centuries earlier to Israel

Mark 12:30 KJVAnd thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Luke 10:27 KJVAnd he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Unlike all other teachers, leaders and wise men...Jesu Christ stands alone as one who conquered Death, Hell and the Grave. He literally rose from the dead...thus proving beyond any doubt that his miraculous Birth and Life for truly different from anyone else that had ever lived.

Im glad I dont serve religion...I have a relationship with my Maker...and have seen Him faithful in my life for 50 years!

In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by Buckeye Fan on March 26, 2010, at 10:31:02

I think some people need religion to provide structure to their spiritual lives, especially if the pursuit of spirituality is not a top priority in life. Religion can afford a framework for spiritual education. Where else would you have found the words that have helped guide your soul?

I think that, in general, religion has served a noble purpose. Sometimes, not so much.

In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by SLS on March 26, 2010, at 10:46:36

Religions are like languages of the spirit. The structure of the belief informs available choices, restrictions and consequences.The history of Christianity in the Americas in particular was tragic for those who encountered it.Christianity has given us great art, it's true.

In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by Buckeye Fan on March 26, 2010, at 10:31:02

> I totally agree with your comments on religion.> > God hates Religion too...He always has.> > I believe "religion" is the devil's counterfiet to what God really desires..."relationship".> The Bible is clear that developing a personal relationship with our Creator is of unequivical importance to..and in fact one of the main reasons for Life itself:> > John 3:16 > For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. > > NOTHING about religion in that verse.> > Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: > > Only faith is required to earn God's unmerited favor> > When Jesus was here on earth in the flesh...He reaffirmed what God had said centuries earlier to Israel> > Mark 12:30 KJV> And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. > > Luke 10:27 KJV> And he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. > > Unlike all other teachers, leaders and wise men...Jesu Christ stands alone as one who conquered Death, Hell and the Grave.> He literally rose from the dead...thus proving beyond any doubt that his miraculous Birth and Life for truly different from anyone else that had ever lived.> > Im glad I dont serve religion...I have a relationship with my Maker...and have seen Him faithful in my life for 50 years!> > BF

BF, You wrote,[...I have a relationship with my Maker...]. If that Maker, as the God that you give service and worship to, is the God that the Christian Bible refers to,A. Does that Bible state that those that use mind-altering drugs will be cast into the Lake of Fire?B. redacted by respondentLou

In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by Buckeye Fan on March 26, 2010, at 10:31:02

> I totally agree with your comments on religion.> > God hates Religion too...He always has.> > I believe "religion" is the devil's counterfiet to what God really desires..."relationship".> The Bible is clear that developing a personal relationship with our Creator is of unequivical importance to..and in fact one of the main reasons for Life itself:> > John 3:16 > For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. > > NOTHING about religion in that verse.> > Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: > > Only faith is required to earn God's unmerited favor> > When Jesus was here on earth in the flesh...He reaffirmed what God had said centuries earlier to Israel> > Mark 12:30 KJV> And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. > > Luke 10:27 KJV> And he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. > > Unlike all other teachers, leaders and wise men...Jesu Christ stands alone as one who conquered Death, Hell and the Grave.> He literally rose from the dead...thus proving beyond any doubt that his miraculous Birth and Life for truly different from anyone else that had ever lived.> > Im glad I dont serve religion...I have a relationship with my Maker...and have seen Him faithful in my life for 50 years!> > BF

BF, You have cited a Bible verse regarding faith as part of being saved. Does that faith include abiding by the commandments of that God? If so, is there a description in that Bible that states that the Spirit of God lives in a person's body and that one is not to defile that body which is the temple of that Spirit? And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?Lou

In reply to Lou's request--dhephile, posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2010, at 10:48:00

> And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?> Lou

Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.

In reply to Re: Lou's request--dhephile » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on March 27, 2010, at 20:21:02

> > And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?> > Lou> > > Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.> > > - Scott> Scott, You wrote,[...the daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father...]I am unsure as to where you have received such. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the oopportunity to respond accordingly.A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?B. Where does that Bibile state that any daughters used wine to alter the mind of their father? C. other questions if you post answers to the above.Lou

In reply to Lou's reply-altrmyn? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 9:37:42

> > > And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?> > > Lou> > > > > > Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.> > > > > > - Scott> > > Scott,> You wrote,[...the daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father...]> I am unsure as to where you have received such. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the oopportunity to respond accordingly.> A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?> B. Where does that Bibile state that any daughters used wine to alter the mind of their father? > C. other questions if you post answers to the above.> Lou> Friends, If you are considering posting here in this thrrad, I ask for you to consider the following. There are many verses in that Bibile in discussion here that refer to {wine}. If the whole matter is taken into consideration, there are two major thoughts concerning {wine}. One is that there are two types of wine, one being fermented, and the other the fruit of the vine, without alcohol. The book with the account of Noah has a passage where Noah planted a vinyard after the flood subsided and became drunk. This could have been accidental because the flood changed the eath and I find no mention of drunkeness or fermentation in that Bible before the flood. Before the flood people lived for hundreds of years, the earth was different. There could have not been fermentation and people drank the fruit of the vine unfermented. There are many Bibile verses that state to not harm the body. So if we look at the whole Bible in regards to {wine}, we could find verses that use wine in a symbolic manner. Then there is as to if the wine was fermented or not. Then there is good wine (in Matt). Could not good wine be fresh wine?Lou

In reply to Lou's request tyo members-wynornhot, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 10:05:29

> > > > And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?> > > > Lou> > > > > > > > > Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.> > > > > > > > > - Scott> > > > > Scott,> > You wrote,[...the daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father...]> > I am unsure as to where you have received such. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the oopportunity to respond accordingly.> > A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?> > B. Where does that Bibile state that any daughters used wine to alter the mind of their father? > > C. other questions if you post answers to the above.> > Lou> > > Friends,> If you are considering posting here in this thrrad, I ask for you to consider the following.> There are many verses in that Bibile in discussion here that refer to {wine}. If the whole matter is taken into consideration, there are two major thoughts concerning {wine}.> One is that there are two types of wine, one being fermented, and the other the fruit of the vine, without alcohol.> The book with the account of Noah has a passage where Noah planted a vinyard after the flood subsided and became drunk. This could have been accidental because the flood changed the eath and I find no mention of drunkeness or fermentation in that Bible before the flood. Before the flood people lived for hundreds of years, the earth was different. There could have not been fermentation and people drank the fruit of the vine unfermented. > There are many Bibile verses that state to not harm the body. So if we look at the whole Bible in regards to {wine}, we could find verses that use wine in a symbolic manner. Then there is as to if the wine was fermented or not. Then there is good wine (in Matt). Could not good wine be fresh wine?> Lou

Friends, I have been talking here about being at the Great Gulf. And that one is separated from one side to the other. And in That Day, the day that you may stand at the edge, you may wonder what separates you from going to the other side, for the separation can not be passed from one side to the other by human means. This thread could bring out what that separation is, for there it has been revealed to me that there is a Great Deception to mankind. And as I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf, I saw a great fire at the bottom of the gulf. And the Rider was there and said, "Your (redacted by respondent) have separated you from your God."Lou

In reply to Re: Lou's request to members-yurpshinz, posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 22:10:44

> >(redacted by respondent)> > How about 'membership of this species'.

Sigusmund, In what you wrote above, there is an important aspect to it. You see, your statement is all-inclusive, for all of us are members of the same species as you have indicated. That brings into considertion as to if all are separated from the God here in question or not. If so, then to passover the Great Gulf could have some way that is available to all that want to do so. The questions then could become, "What is the Way?" "Is it possible for man by himself to find the Way?" "Will taking (redacted by respondent) be the Way?" My friends, as I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf, the Rider was there and I asked what I could do to passover the Great Gulf. And He said to me, "Seek first the Kingdom of God and His rightiousness, and then the Way, the Truth, and the Life will be revealed to you."Lou

In reply to Lou's reply-wheyptewthliegph » Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on March 31, 2010, at 19:12:14

>My friends, as I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf, the Rider was there and I asked what I could do to passover the Great Gulf. And He said to me, "Seek first the Kingdom of God and His rightiousness, and then the Way, the Truth, and the Life will be revealed to you."

In reply to Re: Lou's reply-wheyptewthliegph » Lou Pilder, posted by Sigismund on March 31, 2010, at 20:22:00

It never ceases to amaze me at how the discussion of Jesus Christ, God's Word the Holy Bible, and The Holy Spirit...will always be taken off topic to all kinds of other ideas. Not speaking just of this thread, which I realize was not limited to discussion of the above mentioned truths....but I hope that in the spirit of celebrating Christ's victory over death , hell and the grave with Easter this weekend...we can see Him as the one person to have ever performed the documented miracles He did ( raising the dead, healing the blind, deaf and lame...calming the weather with His commands) ....and then rise from the grave on the third day.

He truley proved He was The Son Of God...and provided The Way for our eternal salvation, and forgivness of our sins.

In reply to Lou's request-nohoudder » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2010, at 10:20:49

Hi Lou...you asked...

BF,You wrote,[...I have a relationship with my Maker...]. If that Maker, as the God that you give service and worship to, is the God that the Christian Bible refers to,A. Does that Bible state that those that use mind-altering drugs will be cast into the Lake of Fire?B. redacted by respondentLou

The answer is no.

The ONLY reason given in God's Word that has or will ever cause someone to miss out on God's forgivness and Eternal life....is to reject the gift of His Son Jesus as Lord and Savior.

This matter is so personal, no one can ever make that determination on this side of eternityabout another human being. None of us have the ability..nor the Biblical mandate to make such a judgement.

We can only lay claim to the truth of God's Wordand the reality of the Holy Spirit coming to live in us as a result of our salvation.