1. Layout Selector. Ability to easily switch with a drop-down between Key Editor, track editor, mixer, etc. This would replace workspaces as needed.

2. Scrub Tool. This is one the things I missed the most about Cubase coming from Sonar. Many times I would have 4-5 instruments in harmony and I would want to mouse over the section i would want to preview and this would allow me to hear all my instruments at once in one mouse click. Then I as I move the mouse across the timeline, I can quickly hear each desired chord. The options would be have it play solo instruments or all notes in the Key editor.

3. Video Button. Simple, you click it, the video pops up. You click it again and it goes away. Options would be to select screen size, video options, etc.

4. Customize menu. Basically add stuff such as the play/pause/rewind buttons.5. Window Layout Label. This will label the inspector plus #6 Group Tree.

6. Group Tree + Group Branch. (the leaves would be the settings). This is one of the biggest things I would like to see Cubase. The frustrations of switching from key editor back to track editor, selecting instruments, and then double clicking to open up a new window.. write a bit. Close the window or switch back to track editor to select other instruments to populate my Key Editor is a pain. . == You create groups based off the new built in visibility inspector. Then you select which midi track you would like to include in that group. This becomes your folder branch. (which directly works with #13.) You can group sets for all orchestra, Brass Only, Strings Only, Drums Only, Guitar Only, or Guitar+Bass+Lead). Within this group branch, you can have the option showing or hiding the midi tracks based off the visibility function and to hide either the Tree or Branch. Please Steinberg gods, listen to me on this one!!!

7. Scene View. This I have yet to see in any DAW. The concept is this. You have a full locked feature film. You've customized ALL the markers, hit all your hard hit points, soft points and every hit is timed perfectly. THEN, the producers at the studio decide to add another scene plus extend an expression that grabs the heart strings of viewer. This change to the edit means everything shifts and moves. The scene view gives you the ability to break down your films and LOCK your scenes in place. Once the new film is in, all you have do it move it as if it were a group track and it would move every automation, every fade and every note. The left over gaps can be broken down to new measures, shifted tempo, or act as a break in score. Careful planning on your project or sloppy for that matter would make this feature amazing for anyone wishing to change a locked picture.

8. Markers. Yes, have the markers visible in key editor. Why they are not currently in there baffles me.

9. Ghosted Waveform. Many times I find myself wanting to write music around a scene's Dialog or visually see major hits or explosions or punches, or no sound fx. This works directly with #10.

10. Waveform: This gives you the options of adding audio tracks from your project to be ghosted in the key editor. You can adjust order, opacity, waveform height, color, add/remove. etc. I have yet to see anything like this in a DAW and would be experimental for some and very handy in other instances.

11. Layout Selector. Say you want the bottom half of the screen to be your mixer. Boom. no more hundreds of windows. Of course, you can have the option to pop out the mixer if you so desire. This would also be great for the Score Editor feature.

12. Draggable Workspace: Click this enables you to drag your split work spaces up or down or side to side. Right clicking would give you the option to 'lock the height in place.

13. Group Tree Foldout: This is a collapsable and expandable slot that houses your groups for easy switching. This also allows for the Group Tree/Branch Inspector panel to collapse out of view. (#6). From here you can also quickly solo/mute specific groups for easy playback.

14. Global Switch. another space for muting, solo, etc. haven't thought one through yet, but would be nice to have something quick access to globally mute all similiar to track editor's.

15. Tempo View. This should be one of the additional automation lanes. With a Tap Tempo feature for on the fly tempo insertion.

Any devs/designers listening? I'll be happy to answer any questions or consult.

Happy Holidays!

01.20.2014EDIT and Addition...After writing solid music for a month now, I've come across some things in the key editor that just don't make sense. here's the post or scroll below:viewtopic.php?f=182&t=52658&p=330053#p330053

JustinDurban wrote:So, I just wanted to give an update to this whole Key Editor window and Cubase 7.5 in general...

Here's a few things that are bugging me about the current Key Editor:

- I've found that there's some many weird quirks trying to switch back and forth with the key editor to the project, picking another instrument and then back to key editor.. When doing so it automatically rewinds the window to the beginning of the instrument's region start. then I find myself having to scroll back to where I was working. (unless auto scroll is one which is a nusance in its own listed further below)

- Another is when you try to set the transport over the "Part Border" (the part's flagged region on top) there's no space to set the transport. I have to literally find a very very small space to click, or I have to push the part name flag over to the left to make room for the cursor. VERY frustrating.

- I still think it's silly they don't include markers in Key editor. It's like flying blind in a timeline without a road map.

- When I select a new group of instrument regions for the key editor, it defaults to velocity and modulation and it's set default height. This becomes a major pain because some regions span the height and I have to constantly either resize the lane window, or choose a preset from the list.

- The "Auto-Scroll" feature gives me a headache. When it plays, it'll move the entire timeline. Why can't it play the transport bar and then 'refresh' the screen with the next 10-15 bars as it scrolls through. like in chunks perhaps? I hate to say it, but Sonar nailed it. (as long as you hit the Scroll Lock btn). Just not very intuitive and smooth to the flow. (this can be argued with many, so go ahead and make your valid point)

- The mixer is just a hot mess and it's scrolls back to the beginning of the group too all the way to the left. I keep finding myself having to scroll back to the end to mess with the EQ or volumes, or whatever plugin i want to tweak for that instrument. (Especially a pain in the arse when there's 50+ instruments in your mixer) many of these woes have to do with Kontakt and my Multi-output setup. (and next...)

- This maybe a Kontakt thing, but when I have multi-outputs for an instance loaded up, my kontakt layers will automatically rename itself according to the Kontakt Output. This is frustrating because I have to keep renaming the track name to know what I'm editing in the mixer. grr. it's only the first one of the group too. ie, i'll name it Violin1 and if I do a clear output or reload my project, the first one becomse St K1. (or something to that effect)

- Using the pencil tool I can only draw on a one line and can only extend the note's duration. I'd like to be able to click a note and drag it around all while hearing the note being played. Otherwise, I have to click and drag the note to the desire length, let go, and then swith to the move tool to move it up and down. A modifier such as Alt, ctrl, or shift would be nice to switch to moving it up, down, left and right.

- I'd love to have the ability to see the varying intensities of notes depending if they are selected. For instance, if you set the key editor Event Color to "Part" the instrument shows the color of the layer. But, all the other instruments are the same intensity making it hard to distinguish which one you've selected. Granted, this is part of my workflow of seeing the entire orchestra in one key editor view. Those of you who only use one at a time do not apply.

- When I hit, Select All, I wish the key editor would combine the regions versus having, Violin1, Violin1, Violin1. This is an issue because if I was to have a feature film on my hand and I hit select all, I would probably have 20+ Violin1 parts. There needs to be an option to "Combine regions as one instrument" in preferences.

The more I mess with the Key Editor the more my overall mockup makes sense. Bouncing back and forth just to select my instruments is a road block and destroys the creative flow. I don't mean to be so picky with this post, but to me these adjustments make sense and I'd imagine it does to others who fancy the key editor as much as I do. I really hope the Cubase coding geniuses are listening.

Cubase is a great product. It has potential to be the best with a few small tweaks.

cheers,/justin

Last edited by JustinDurban on Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:24 pm, edited 5 times in total.

The 'Scene View' is something I've ranted about for years. Don't hold yer breath. The closest Cubase ever got was the Arranger Track and that's not even in the same county.

The problem would be that you'd need to consider each area before and after in an OO manner... taking into accounting the release of each note on the left and any slurs on the right---including pickup notes. And then there are the various articulations/controllers.

Yea, a 'Scene View' feature would be super handy. In terms of programming, it would simply break each section into regions. If midi notes are overlapping, it would slice those regions at the break point. One thing I didn't mention would be the ability to change those region colors as well so there's a 10% overlay. Nothing too obtrusive, but subtle enough to know it's there when you are zoomed out looking at a minimum of 3 acts. (possibly 4-5 acts of any given film)

Do Steinberg devs/execs even look at these suggestions? and they chalk them off as, "Eh. we can't please everyone..."

This is brilliant.I believe, you're the first one who suggested the SCUB feature, other than myself. This is the key missing tool in Cubase. I've requested this many times but no one has every seemed interested. My guess is once someone actually scubs midi to re-voice, build harmonies, whatever, will wonder how they every managed without it.

rabdaddy wrote:This is brilliant.I believe, you're the first one who suggested the SCUB feature, other than myself. This is the key missing tool in Cubase. I've requested this many times but no one has every seemed interested. My guess is once someone actually scubs midi to re-voice, build harmonies, whatever, will wonder how they every managed without it.

i think a lot of people want this, but it's probably never been so well-presented like now, so maybe this will kickstart something.

Then, as far as I'm concerned, this portion of your mock-up is pointless... well except for the colouring thing I guess.

---JC

JustinDurban wrote:Yea, a 'Scene View' feature would be super handy. In terms of programming, it would simply break each section into regions. If midi notes are overlapping, it would slice those regions at the break point. One thing I didn't mention would be the ability to change those region colors as well so there's a 10% overlay. Nothing too obtrusive, but subtle enough to know it's there when you are zoomed out looking at a minimum of 3 acts. (possibly 4-5 acts of any given film)

Do Steinberg devs/execs even look at these suggestions? and they chalk them off as, "Eh. we can't please everyone..."

Thank you Lucas and Rab! Scrubbing was HUGE when I worked in Sonar, and seems like a very logical thing for cubase. One thing that frustrated me so much with Sonar was the fact I had to set the now marker at the beginning of a midi note in order to hear it. But now with cubase, you can set the Cursor anywhere you want, hit play and it magically plays. I don't see why a scrub tool would be a big deal.

JC, Why would you call it pointless? I'ts not creating tiny regions like the tracks, but rather creating 'global' regions that encompasses anything in its path. Perhaps you are not seeing it's potential for locking portions of a project? It basically locks anything to SMTPE time so if you change the tempo everything can be locked in place just for that region. If this still doesn't makes sense, I'll be happy to include a per basis scenario.

I have had this discussion so many times... and I'm sick of re-re-re-explaining the same crap and hearing the same 'workarounds'.

When you copy/cut ranges in Cubase (which is basically what yer talking about), you lose any pickup notes and controller data at the beginning -and- you cut off the releases of the final notes. So, I simply don't bother with 'ranges' or 'arranger tracks' or -anything- that divides music into 'chunks' because they aren't -intelligent'.

If I insert a bar before a section... or after, I will likely -break- the keyswitches that transition properly from one section to the next. Even repeats are problematic.

In short: doing something like a repeat sign or a DS... the -simplest- thing in the world for -music- is practically impossible in Cubase when writing for complex instruments.

Now... if you write EDM or pop or rock, where there are no keyswitches or each section simply butt cuts to the next? Your proposal works fine. But the moment you try to do -anything- where the lines are not so clear cut, the whole idea falls apart.

I have no idea why this doesn't REALLY anger others... maybe the just accept it; or maybe very few people write concert music with Cubase. But breaking music into logical sections as you propose will never be practical until the above points are addressed.

One idea that Samplitude has: an 'object' (an event) can be assigned a starting keyswitch. So when you move an event you're -guaranteed- that the proper starting articulation will move with it. Until Cubase develops this kind of 'intelligent events' it's just not useful for me to consider any kind of 'scenes'.

---JC

JustinDurban wrote:Thank you Lucas and Rab! Scrubbing was HUGE when I worked in Sonar, and seems like a very logical thing for cubase. One thing that frustrated me so much with Sonar was the fact I had to set the now marker at the beginning of a midi note in order to hear it. But now with cubase, you can set the Cursor anywhere you want, hit play and it magically plays. I don't see why a scrub tool would be a big deal.

JC, Why would you call it pointless? I'ts not creating tiny regions like the tracks, but rather creating 'global' regions that encompasses anything in its path. Perhaps you are not seeing it's potential for locking portions of a project? It basically locks anything to SMTPE time so if you change the tempo everything can be locked in place just for that region. If this still doesn't makes sense, I'll be happy to include a per basis scenario.

suntower wrote:I have had this discussion so many times... and I'm sick of re-re-re-explaining the same crap and hearing the same 'workarounds'...

JC, are you a coder?

I should have thought twice about asking that question. Of course, not, we are all musicians. This idea of "Scenes" is just common sense. You wouldn't want to cut a scene in the middle of a complex musical section. You'd wait for a silent point in a film and then use that as a slicing point. Same concept works in editing video. You select multiple tracks, hit slice and it cuts it down the middle.

So unless you are in fact a coder, (which if you are, i do apologize) I wouldn't think anything is impossible. Coders are pretty badass. If I were a billionaire with all sorts of money on my hands, I'd have a hand full of them at my beckon call to adjust the software as I see fit. With these suggestions, I would assume many many others would want the same features when writing to picture.

Like ALL features of any software, you can always opt not to use them.

Creating 'named regions' have been asked about for a decade. They are already implemented in Samplitude (and from what I can tell from about 15 minutes messing with it) in DP. That's very cool.

All I'm telling you is that their -usefulness- for a guy like -me- is about zero for the reasons I previously wrote. Again, if you create music in 'chunks' where stuff doesn't overlap? FANTASTIC.

I know something of 'coding' and it's not 'impossible' but FWIW my main issue with your proposal... like all such things... is that it goes against the Cubase paradigm. If you've been using Cubase for a while, you realise it's much the same as it was in the '90s. Every major change has been -additive-... building on the same basic piano roll. LOTS of people post elaborate mock-ups of improved GUIs and they will never happen because it would require a complete redesign of the -paradigm-.

EG. Personally, I see no need for all the 'track types'. Several of them could easily be integrated and save screen real estate and the program would be easier to use. Never gonna happen. In 2003 or so they decided on 'tracks' and then 'lanes' for each new gizmo and that's the road they went down. They went VERTICAL; not horizontal. To combine various track types now, or to go 'horizontal' would break the metaphor... and bust backward compatibility. So in fact... they will probably, over time, add MORE new 'track types'... increasing the clutter. That's how software dev works. You keep adding, adding, adding onto the road you started on.

IOW: Unless yer into 'fan fiction', when one posts a suggestion the first question I think should be: is it possible within the current metaphor?

Best,

---JC

JustinDurban wrote:

JustinDurban wrote:

suntower wrote:I have had this discussion so many times... and I'm sick of re-re-re-explaining the same crap and hearing the same 'workarounds'...

JC, are you a coder?

I should have thought twice about asking that question. Of course, not, we are all musicians. This idea of "Scenes" is just common sense. You wouldn't want to cut a scene in the middle of a complex musical section. You'd wait for a silent point in a film and then use that as a slicing point. Same concept works in editing video. You select multiple tracks, hit slice and it cuts it down the middle.

So unless you are in fact a coder, (which if you are, i do apologize) I wouldn't think anything is impossible. Coders are pretty badass. If I were a billionaire with all sorts of money on my hands, I'd have a hand full of them at my beckon call to adjust the software as I see fit. With these suggestions, I would assume many many others would want the same features when writing to picture.

Like ALL features of any software, you can always opt not to use them.

So, I just wanted to give an update to this whole Key Editor window and Cubase 7.5 in general...

Here's a few things that are bugging me about the current Key Editor:

- I've found that there's some many weird quirks trying to switch back and forth with the key editor to the project, picking another instrument and then back to key editor.. When doing so it automatically rewinds the window to the beginning of the instrument's region start. then I find myself having to scroll back to where I was working. (unless auto scroll is one which is a nusance in its own listed further below)

- Another is when you try to set the transport over the "Part Border" (the part's flagged region on top) there's no space to set the transport. I have to literally find a very very small space to click, or I have to push the part name flag over to the left to make room for the cursor. VERY frustrating.

- I still think it's silly they don't include markers in Key editor. It's like flying blind in a timeline without a road map.

- When I select a new group of instrument regions for the key editor, it defaults to velocity and modulation and it's set default height. This becomes a major pain because some regions span the height and I have to constantly either resize the lane window, or choose a preset from the list.

- The "Auto-Scroll" feature gives me a headache. When it plays, it'll move the entire timeline. Why can't it play the transport bar and then 'refresh' the screen with the next 10-15 bars as it scrolls through. like in chunks perhaps? I hate to say it, but Sonar nailed it. (as long as you hit the Scroll Lock btn). Just not very intuitive and smooth to the flow. (this can be argued with many, so go ahead and make your valid point)

- The mixer is just a hot mess and it's scrolls back to the beginning of the group too all the way to the left. I keep finding myself having to scroll back to the end to mess with the EQ or volumes, or whatever plugin i want to tweak for that instrument. (Especially a pain in the arse when there's 50+ instruments in your mixer) many of these woes have to do with Kontakt and my Multi-output setup. (and next...)

- This maybe a Kontakt thing, but when I have multi-outputs for an instance loaded up, my kontakt layers will automatically rename itself according to the Kontakt Output. This is frustrating because I have to keep renaming the track name to know what I'm editing in the mixer. grr. it's only the first one of the group too. ie, i'll name it Violin1 and if I do a clear output or reload my project, the first one becomse St K1. (or something to that effect)

- Using the pencil tool I can only draw on a one line and can only extend the note's duration. I'd like to be able to click a note and drag it around all while hearing the note being played. Otherwise, I have to click and drag the note to the desire length, let go, and then swith to the move tool to move it up and down. A modifier such as Alt, ctrl, or shift would be nice to switch to moving it up, down, left and right.

- I'd love to have the ability to see the varying intensities of notes depending if they are selected. For instance, if you set the key editor Event Color to "Part" the instrument shows the color of the layer. But, all the other instruments are the same intensity making it hard to distinguish which one you've selected. Granted, this is part of my workflow of seeing the entire orchestra in one key editor view. Those of you who only use one at a time do not apply.

- When I hit, Select All, I wish the key editor would combine the regions versus having, Violin1, Violin1, Violin1. This is an issue because if I was to have a feature film on my hand and I hit select all, I would probably have 20+ Violin1 parts. There needs to be an option to "Combine regions as one instrument" in preferences.

The more I mess with the Key Editor the more my overall mockup makes sense. Bouncing back and forth just to select my instruments is a road block and destroys the creative flow. I don't mean to be so picky with this post, but to me these adjustments make sense and I'd imagine it does to others who fancy the key editor as much as I do. I really hope the Cubase coding geniuses are listening.

Cubase is a great product. It has potential to be the best with a few small tweaks.

I won´t go into details, but I really like these suggestions. Doing a lot of music for picture and I always thought the key editor needs some love. A few things I can achieve with the in-place editor.

Having show/hide also in the key editor was a request I also made long ago, but as Cubase has it now in the mixer and project window, maybe key editor will be next. ( I hope..)

Regarding 7.)Multiple projects linking to a master video, similiar to DP8 would probably be the better approach.Having a complete feature film length video in one Cubase project? Currently a nightmare..

Ah! I have not experienced DP8's chunk ability but sounds like it could be a potential.

I'm about to start a feature film for the first time with Cubase, and I'm not feeling too good about it. I've encountered sooooooooo many unnecessary quirks by scoring a handful short films that I couldn't imagine the headaches I'm going to experience with a feature.

Since you seem like a contributor... I'll make the following suggestion. When you find a better alternative, report back in depth from that Undiscovered Country. And I will be waiting.

Seriously: The ONLY reason I've stuck with Cubase is because nobody has talked me into something else. And by that I mean... back when I was young... just after the Black Death and at the dawn of the Interwebs... you'd have people write 10,000 word essays on the benefits of one <whatever> vs. another. Real in depth stuff. I wrote software for a living and if I wanted to compare one C compiler vs. another, I could get any of 50 serious comparative reviews. When I started using Cubase, there were similar guys with similar passion and 'civic mindedness' and you could get LOTS of feedback on virtually -anything-.

Ironically, now, I find it harder and harder to get comparative info on -anything-. People say 'try it!'.'Download it!'. Which is ridiculous. You know how long it takes to even -install- Cubase and get productive. It would take me -hundreds- of hrs to set up 3 or 4 competitors and get conversant enough to draw any intelligent conclusions. Anything less and I'd likely get totally the wrong impression.

I try to look over people's shoulder on the odd occasion I go to someone else's place. That helps a -little-. Or -maybe- there is a real 'in-depth' 750 word 'review' in a commercial mag. Real helpful.

In short: there's just no easy way to compare the contestants in a meaningful way. And at the end of the day, very few people take the -time- to really compare apples to apples on the advanced features you're talking about. Or if they do, they don't report back. And I think that's the main reason a LOT of us stick with what they have. I certainly don't have the energy/patience to move. But perhaps you do.

So seriously... if you find something better? Do the community a service and report back. At the very least it might help others... either by getting them to switch... or by pushing SB to make those changes.

Good Luck!

---JC

JustinDurban wrote:Ah! I have not experienced DP8's chunk ability but sounds like it could be a potential.

I'm about to start a feature film for the first time with Cubase, and I'm not feeling too good about it. I've encountered sooooooooo many unnecessary quirks by scoring a handful short films that I couldn't imagine the headaches I'm going to experience with a feature.

Thank you JC. not that it matters, but I've scored over 300+ short films varying from 2min-30min in length in Cakewalk Sonar 8.5 and roughly about 14 feature films. (Yep, I'm in perpetual indie mode and can't seem to move over that hump) There's things that Sonar did with the piano roll that just made sense in every facet of writing to picture. Versions after that? X1, X2, X3? Not so much.

Hence why I made the switch.

i've watched hundreds of videos online on just about every DAW and tried just about every trial software on the market and Cubase 7 was the ultimate winner. So I bought it. However; now that I've dove in and scored 7 short films already with Cubase 7.5, i'm not sure doing a feature is what I want to do in its current state/version. I have a particular and almost 'child-like' way of looking at writing to picture and not sure if others share the same methods.

I'm hoping mocking these small additions up would add value to SB. I have many man more ideas to simplify things. Just wish they'd perk up and say, "Hey, I think i'd like to give Justin a call and implement these features into the future release".

so many great ideas from folks in this forum. I suppose that's the downfall. So many ideas with so little time and resources.