The fact of the matter is 90% of the board disagrees with my view of the team, the state of the management, and where we're headed.

I really don't think that is a fact, hence the chip comment.

It may have been closer to true a year ago, when we were coming off a playoff season and for the first time in a long time Lions fans had some optimism. It's less true now, that's for sure.

You're going to struggle to get people to openly agree with you whilst you keep hitting the "I told you so" line, though. That's why you're getting less disagreement now than before, but little extra support.

Just let it go. No one here's a GM. I can't be bothered searching through people's posts from the past to find out who was right and who was wrong. This isn't a scoreboard, it's (supposed to be) a discussion board. And discussion is a heck of a lot easier to flow when there isn't a "ha, you got that wrong/I got it right" culture going on.

It's just annoying when I spoke of these problems both before and after the "playoff season" (the season in which we didn't beat a team over .500), and I watched people on here talk about how "great" we were, as we sat on our hands through perhaps the most important off-season in team history, did nothing, and then ultimately fell apart due to blunder after blunder of Martin Mayhew, as everyone on here was championing his every move and calling me crazy, only to see the majority of what I said come true.

I was open to "discussing" these things then, but everyone would cut me short and say "you're crazy," or "you're just being negative." I'm not negative about the Lions, I love the team. I'm negative about the things they do and continue doing. Why? Because they don't work.

We largely have the same problems we had under Bobby Ross for Christ's sake... Crappy OL, spotty WR talent, lack of depth, no true running game, bad secondary, "meh" linebackers, and an OK DL... That's been our MO for over a decade, and people wonder why nothing has changed, and they criticize the poster for believing things are the same as they were then... I've been saying "fix the OL" since my arrival to this site 7 years ago, and prior to that for 5 years on the "main" site and another forum.

Traded for Sims. Second tackle taken in 2012 and a guard in the early 3rd round this year. Fox a talented college player who struggled with injuries and fell to the 4th round, but he's been learning the system and is now healthy. You can't say they've ignored the offensive line. The results may not be to your liking, but they have devoted resources there. Also, it's worth noting that some of your preferred alternatives (DeCastro and Konz) aren't exactly lighting the world on fire.

On another note, I actually miss the days of 2009/2010 when we had to play our rookies because the veteran alternatives were so bad. It seems like a huge waste of time to have Bartell starting over Slay or Scott/Gandy starting over Warford. I think with guys taken in the first few rounds, there should be trial by fire unless there's a veteran who's a major contributor entrenched at the position. Even if they have some rocky moments, that's the only way they're going to learn.

_________________"There were a couple times where I was just like, 'Is that legal?" Warford said. "Cause he was getting laid out. I was like, 'Someone might call the cops. This is not fair.'"

August 20th, 2013, 1:44 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Traded for Sims. Second tackle taken in 2012 and a guard in the early 3rd round this year. Fox a talented college player who struggled with injuries and fell to the 4th round, but he's been learning the system and is now healthy. You can't say they've ignored the offensive line. The results may not be to your liking, but they have devoted resources there. Also, it's worth noting that some of your preferred alternatives (DeCastro and Konz) aren't exactly lighting the world on fire.

On another note, I actually miss the days of 2009/2010 when we had to play our rookies because the veteran alternatives were so bad. It seems like a huge waste of time to have Bartell starting over Slay or Scott/Gandy starting over Warford. I think with guys taken in the first few rounds, there should be trial by fire unless there's a veteran who's a major contributor entrenched at the position. Even if they have some rocky moments, that's the only way they're going to learn.

Konz had a good year. When ever you get 16 games played out of a 2nd round rookie, it's a good year. Did he set the world on fire as an OG? No, but he's not supposed to. That's a position that Dom couldn't play in his best year, not even as a sub. He's that bad. Further, Kontz is already slated as Atls starting OC this year. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED US TO DO WITH HIM. Start him at OG for a year, and move him to OC after getting some experience. Now we still have no OC, we're still relying on a crappy, 12 year vet that never was any good, that was grossly over-paid, is still over-paid, and no heir apparent.... Are you really saying that we wouldn't have been better off drafting Kontz? And, everyone knows, Kontz wasn't my guy, Alex Mack was... How's that working out?

DeCasto ended up getting hurt, you can't tell much from that. Still I would have rather had him, even at this point.

The bottom line is we have no legitimate LT, LG or OC, and our RT spot is sketchy at best. How you can say that we've addressed the OL is beyond me. If taking imprudent reaches in the draft is your idea of addressing something, ok, I guess it's been 'addressed', but it wasn't addressed properly.

August 20th, 2013, 1:57 pm

njroar

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 2833

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

I've agreed when you're right, but to be honest, it's not what you say that rubs people wrong, it's how you say it. When I said you were a negative nancy, it's not because you disagree with everyone on the status of the team, it's that you verbally abuse people who don't agree 100% with what you believe. You're a fan just like the rest of us. If you stick your finger up at me because we don't see things the same way, the finger's coming right back at you whether you're right or not. I've had disagreements with M2, Sly, and many more, but the difference is they don't make or take things personal and attack the poster instead of the comments.

You are not special. I am under no obligation to agree with you, and even when I do, the "I told you so" attitude somehow disappears when the same players you rally for come up less than expected. Show some humility. Everyone of us have opinions, but you're the only one that has a need to rub everyone else's faces in it if it doesn't line up with yours. You know why the activity is down? Because I can go anywhere else and see thousands of comments with the exact same attitude behind yours. Disagreement is fine. I have no problem debating the good vs bad of each player, but to just try to ridicule and shut down opposition the way you do has been going on for far too long. It's ruined the off-topic and now it's ruining the general threads.

At least try disagreeing with some class and respect.

/rant off

August 20th, 2013, 2:45 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

njroar wrote:

I've agreed when you're right, but to be honest, it's not what you say that rubs people wrong, it's how you say it. When I said you were a negative nancy, it's not because you disagree with everyone on the status of the team, it's that you verbally abuse people who don't agree 100% with what you believe. You're a fan just like the rest of us. If you stick your finger up at me because we don't see things the same way, the finger's coming right back at you whether you're right or not. I've had disagreements with M2, Sly, and many more, but the difference is they don't make or take things personal and attack the poster instead of the comments.

You are not special. I am under no obligation to agree with you, and even when I do, the "I told you so" attitude somehow disappears when the same players you rally for come up less than expected. Show some humility. Everyone of us have opinions, but you're the only one that has a need to rub everyone else's faces in it if it doesn't line up with yours. You know why the activity is down? Because I can go anywhere else and see thousands of comments with the exact same attitude behind yours. Disagreement is fine. I have no problem debating the good vs bad of each player, but to just try to ridicule and shut down opposition the way you do has been going on for far too long. It's ruined the off-topic and now it's ruining the general threads.

At least try disagreeing with some class and respect.

/rant off

Most people don't disagree with me at all, or post a substantive rebuttal. They simply yell at me for being negative, call me crazy, or say that I'm a "know it all." That's what ruins the discussion. For some people, anything other than koolade and cornbread is too much for them, and they have an "in Mayhew we trust" attitude, and have had since the beginning. I started off that way, but he's proven himself to be a buffoon.

Very few times does anyone actually disagree with me with some sort of substance. M2 is probably the best at it, followed by Legend, and then by Rao. Most people just claim I don't know what I'm talking about, but my track record and philosophy is much better than what we're dealing with as our favorite NFL team's management.

Ok, so the discussion board is going to be you, M2, Legend and Rao. And it's everyone else who spoils the discussion.

Or, it could be that nobody posts a substantive reply because they know they'll just get more aggression in response.

You may not remember, but I was at the board (LUG) you (and sly and Billy and others) came to here from. It was my first experience of a Lions board. I recall there being a move from there to here because one person dominated the whole board, making it unpleasant for others to post. This place is headed that way too ...

August 20th, 2013, 6:52 pm

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10457Location: Sycamore, IL

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

...Winner winner chicken dinner...

However, since most of the posts nowadays turn into a huge bitch thread, let's keep it about Mathis.

They had nothing to lose in Mathis and I have seen very, very, very few posts saying they actually like the secondary. Sure, they're improved, but it's not hard going from explosive diarrhea to a small turd nugget. I'm excited to see if he's got anything left in the tank. I doubt it since he remained unsigned. But then again, for experience and versatility (and cutting speivey), I support it 100%

However, since most of the posts nowadays turn into a huge bitch thread, let's keep it about Mathis.

They had nothing to lose in Mathis and I have seen very, very, very few posts saying they actually like the secondary. Sure, they're improved, but it's not hard going from explosive diarrhea to a small turd nugget. I'm excited to see if he's got anything left in the tank. I doubt it since he remained unsigned. But then again, for experience and versatility (and cutting speivey), I support it 100%

it will be interesting to me see not only how mathis does but where they are planning on giving him his shot. I could see him competing with bartell to be the experienced veteran corner if slay and Bentley hit some rough patches. on the other hand maybe he s here to compete with chris hope for one of the backup safety spots.

August 20th, 2013, 10:26 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

UK Lion wrote:

Ok, so the discussion board is going to be you, M2, Legend and Rao. And it's everyone else who spoils the discussion.

Or, it could be that nobody posts a substantive reply because they know they'll just get more aggression in response.

You may not remember, but I was at the board (LUG) you (and sly and Billy and others) came to here from. It was my first experience of a Lions board. I recall there being a move from there to here because one person dominated the whole board, making it unpleasant for others to post. This place is headed that way too ...

I remember it well.

Nuffsaid was a jackass that wouldn't listen to anyone. There was also an issue with ManeLion, but that may have been on the official Lions forum. I can't agree that this place is turning that way.

No one is saying that this site should be me, M2, and Legend, but the three of us are generally much more civil and respectful toward each other when we do disagree, and we tend to limit the "you're stupid" "you're crazy" "you're always negative" responses to one another. Sure we've had our moments, and we've had our share of temporary "f*ck offs" but we're generally pretty civil with one another. This site shouldn't be limited to a few members, but on the contrary, this site would be 10X's better if other posters posted more substantive posts.

August 20th, 2013, 10:46 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

conversion02 wrote:

...Winner winner chicken dinner...

However, since most of the posts nowadays turn into a huge bitch thread, let's keep it about Mathis.

They had nothing to lose in Mathis and I have seen very, very, very few posts saying they actually like the secondary. Sure, they're improved, but it's not hard going from explosive diarrhea to a small turd nugget. I'm excited to see if he's got anything left in the tank. I doubt it since he remained unsigned. But then again, for experience and versatility (and cutting speivey), I support it 100%

I guess to word it better... I'm not miffed about signing Mathis, as much as I am miffed about ignoring our OL, and LBs. Our OL has been worse than our secondary thus far. Seattle Seahawks just traded John Moffit for a player that the Browns may have cut. I'm not saying that Moffit is a probowler, but at least he's a legitimate NFL OG. Maybe he's not "what we need" but he may likely be better than what we have right now. Maybe it's too early, and maybe we'll land someone, but our FO has a habit of painting themselves in a corner, not admitting they were wrong, and running with a group of guys that everyone knows isn't capable of the task. It's a bad habit that I'm sick of watching.

Ok, so the discussion board is going to be you, M2, Legend and Rao. And it's everyone else who spoils the discussion.

Or, it could be that nobody posts a substantive reply because they know they'll just get more aggression in response.

You may not remember, but I was at the board (LUG) you (and sly and Billy and others) came to here from. It was my first experience of a Lions board. I recall there being a move from there to here because one person dominated the whole board, making it unpleasant for others to post. This place is headed that way too ...

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

August 20th, 2013, 11:54 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

UK Lion wrote:

Ok, so the discussion board is going to be you, M2, Legend and Rao. And it's everyone else who spoils the discussion.

Or, it could be that nobody posts a substantive reply because they know they'll just get more aggression in response.

You may not remember, but I was at the board (LUG) you (and sly and Billy and others) came to here from. It was my first experience of a Lions board. I recall there being a move from there to here because one person dominated the whole board, making it unpleasant for others to post. This place is headed that way too ...

I will say this....I have barked back at people from time to time. I am not absolved of being hard headed either. It's part of being a fan. We all get ideas about how things should be, or how a player should be paid, played or released. And I have, from time to time, come on here and said 'a-ha...I was right'. That's not rubbing someone's face in it if they insist you never said this or that, and you did.

When it comes down to it, this forum was a pretty nice place to visit when the Lions were going through their winning season. Last year, it pretty much sucked. And when you are a fan of a losing team, you are going to be short tempered and complain. So before any of us start pointing fingers at each other and say 'YOU are the cause for this forum not being popular as it once was', let's remember that we have all done this from time to time It is the curse of being a Lions fan.

I am no great prognosticator of talent. I have agreed with moves that were terrible, and have complained about moves that turned out good. Not all the players I thought the Lions should take in the draft have panned out.

What I do know is that a once promising group of coaches and GM have not really been too impressive over the last season and a half. I hate the idea of having to 'start over' with a new GM and a new coaching staff, but I pretty much think if the Lions don't make the playoffs this season, it's the move they HAVE to make. In the end, some of the poor draft picks, off field issues, and poor game management are 100% on the head of this regime.

So, in the immortal words of someone not named me, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And let's be cool to one another.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

I will say this....I have barked back at people from time to time. I am not absolved of being hard headed either. It's part of being a fan. We all get ideas about how things should be, or how a player should be paid, played or released. And I have, from time to time, come on here and said 'a-ha...I was right'. That's not rubbing someone's face in it if they insist you never said this or that, and you did.

When it comes down to it, this forum was a pretty nice place to visit when the Lions were going through their winning season. Last year, it pretty much sucked. And when you are a fan of a losing team, you are going to be short tempered and complain. So before any of us start pointing fingers at each other and say 'YOU are the cause for this forum not being popular as it once was', let's remember that we have all done this from time to time It is the curse of being a Lions fan.

I am no great prognosticator of talent. I have agreed with moves that were terrible, and have complained about moves that turned out good. Not all the players I thought the Lions should take in the draft have panned out.

What I do know is that a once promising group of coaches and GM have not really been too impressive over the last season and a half. I hate the idea of having to 'start over' with a new GM and a new coaching staff, but I pretty much think if the Lions don't make the playoffs this season, it's the move they HAVE to make. In the end, some of the poor draft picks, off field issues, and poor game management are 100% on the head of this regime.

So, in the immortal words of someone not named me, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And let's be cool to one another.

Very well said. And I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part. But, I also agree with another idea: That sometimes the best move, is the move that wasn't made. With where the team was when Mayhew and Schwartz took over, (the fact they made the playoffs in 2011 was astounding), it was predictable AND inevitable that they would take a step back last season. Just look at all the other teams that have done the same thing after being so bad for so long. Most of them have a good season and then they fall back into crapper for several more years. Examples: Rams and Chiefs. I just think we owed it to ourselves to see if last year was just a 1 year backslide or not. If they stink this year, fine fire them and move on. But, at least we gave them the chance to prove which year was the fraud. 2011 or 2012.

August 22nd, 2013, 9:53 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

BillySims wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

I will say this....I have barked back at people from time to time. I am not absolved of being hard headed either. It's part of being a fan. We all get ideas about how things should be, or how a player should be paid, played or released. And I have, from time to time, come on here and said 'a-ha...I was right'. That's not rubbing someone's face in it if they insist you never said this or that, and you did.

When it comes down to it, this forum was a pretty nice place to visit when the Lions were going through their winning season. Last year, it pretty much sucked. And when you are a fan of a losing team, you are going to be short tempered and complain. So before any of us start pointing fingers at each other and say 'YOU are the cause for this forum not being popular as it once was', let's remember that we have all done this from time to time It is the curse of being a Lions fan.

I am no great prognosticator of talent. I have agreed with moves that were terrible, and have complained about moves that turned out good. Not all the players I thought the Lions should take in the draft have panned out.

What I do know is that a once promising group of coaches and GM have not really been too impressive over the last season and a half. I hate the idea of having to 'start over' with a new GM and a new coaching staff, but I pretty much think if the Lions don't make the playoffs this season, it's the move they HAVE to make. In the end, some of the poor draft picks, off field issues, and poor game management are 100% on the head of this regime.

So, in the immortal words of someone not named me, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And let's be cool to one another.

Very well said. And I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part. But, I also agree with another idea: That sometimes the best move, is the move that wasn't made. With where the team was when Mayhew and Schwartz took over, (the fact they made the playoffs in 2011 was astounding), it was predictable AND inevitable that they would take a step back last season. Just look at all the other teams that have done the same thing after being so bad for so long. Most of them have a good season and then they fall back into crapper for several more years. Examples: Rams and Chiefs. I just think we owed it to ourselves to see if last year was just a 1 year backslide or not. If they stink this year, fine fire them and move on. But, at least we gave them the chance to prove which year was the fraud. 2011 or 2012.

Billy, we didn't have a "magical playoff season," we had a soft schedule and got killed in the one playoff game we lucked ourselves into. We didn't "take a step back," we reverted to what we always were. Even in our "playoff season" we still didn't have a legitimate starting RG, #2 WR, WLB, FS, and #2 CB. That's why that offseason was so important. We had a chance to land guys that could have really improved our team, in a moment in time when it looked like our stock was rising, and we should have been able to pick up a cheap FA or two, without over-paying. We failed to do that, water found its level, and we're right back to where we were prior to that season, in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL. Mayhew and Schwartz should get zero credit for that season, as they had little to do with the outcome. Whomever made the schedule should get all of the credit for scheduling us 10-12 games with teams with under .500 records.

August 22nd, 2013, 10:12 am

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3955Location: Davison Mi

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

wjb21ndtown wrote:

BillySims wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

I will say this....I have barked back at people from time to time. I am not absolved of being hard headed either. It's part of being a fan. We all get ideas about how things should be, or how a player should be paid, played or released. And I have, from time to time, come on here and said 'a-ha...I was right'. That's not rubbing someone's face in it if they insist you never said this or that, and you did.

When it comes down to it, this forum was a pretty nice place to visit when the Lions were going through their winning season. Last year, it pretty much sucked. And when you are a fan of a losing team, you are going to be short tempered and complain. So before any of us start pointing fingers at each other and say 'YOU are the cause for this forum not being popular as it once was', let's remember that we have all done this from time to time It is the curse of being a Lions fan.

I am no great prognosticator of talent. I have agreed with moves that were terrible, and have complained about moves that turned out good. Not all the players I thought the Lions should take in the draft have panned out.

What I do know is that a once promising group of coaches and GM have not really been too impressive over the last season and a half. I hate the idea of having to 'start over' with a new GM and a new coaching staff, but I pretty much think if the Lions don't make the playoffs this season, it's the move they HAVE to make. In the end, some of the poor draft picks, off field issues, and poor game management are 100% on the head of this regime.

So, in the immortal words of someone not named me, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And let's be cool to one another.

Very well said. And I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part. But, I also agree with another idea: That sometimes the best move, is the move that wasn't made. With where the team was when Mayhew and Schwartz took over, (the fact they made the playoffs in 2011 was astounding), it was predictable AND inevitable that they would take a step back last season. Just look at all the other teams that have done the same thing after being so bad for so long. Most of them have a good season and then they fall back into crapper for several more years. Examples: Rams and Chiefs. I just think we owed it to ourselves to see if last year was just a 1 year backslide or not. If they stink this year, fine fire them and move on. But, at least we gave them the chance to prove which year was the fraud. 2011 or 2012.

Billy, we didn't have a "magical playoff season," we had a soft schedule and got killed in the one playoff game we lucked ourselves into. We didn't "take a step back," we reverted to what we always were. Even in our "playoff season" we still didn't have a legitimate starting RG, #2 WR, WLB, FS, and #2 CB. That's why that offseason was so important. We had a chance to land guys that could have really improved our team, in a moment in time when it looked like our stock was rising, and we should have been able to pick up a cheap FA or two, without over-paying. We failed to do that, water found its level, and we're right back to where we were prior to that season, in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL. Mayhew and Schwartz should get zero credit for that season, as they had little to do with the outcome. Whomever made the schedule should get all of the credit for scheduling us 10-12 games with teams with under .500 records.

And THIS is why you get so much flack WJB.....can you please at least ATTEMPT to stay on topic. you have destroyed so many threads by beating the same damn dead horse over and over again, im bored with it. either find a way to stay on topic so we can read something different than the same ole tired rant, or find something new to talk about. You've repeated yourself over and over(and over and over, add nausium) on so many threads that had nothing to do with what the topic....give it a rest man. we ALL KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. can we move on now?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 22nd, 2013, 11:02 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Rashean Mathis signs with Lions

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

BillySims wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

I will say this....I have barked back at people from time to time. I am not absolved of being hard headed either. It's part of being a fan. We all get ideas about how things should be, or how a player should be paid, played or released. And I have, from time to time, come on here and said 'a-ha...I was right'. That's not rubbing someone's face in it if they insist you never said this or that, and you did.

When it comes down to it, this forum was a pretty nice place to visit when the Lions were going through their winning season. Last year, it pretty much sucked. And when you are a fan of a losing team, you are going to be short tempered and complain. So before any of us start pointing fingers at each other and say 'YOU are the cause for this forum not being popular as it once was', let's remember that we have all done this from time to time It is the curse of being a Lions fan.

I am no great prognosticator of talent. I have agreed with moves that were terrible, and have complained about moves that turned out good. Not all the players I thought the Lions should take in the draft have panned out.

What I do know is that a once promising group of coaches and GM have not really been too impressive over the last season and a half. I hate the idea of having to 'start over' with a new GM and a new coaching staff, but I pretty much think if the Lions don't make the playoffs this season, it's the move they HAVE to make. In the end, some of the poor draft picks, off field issues, and poor game management are 100% on the head of this regime.

So, in the immortal words of someone not named me, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And let's be cool to one another.

Very well said. And I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part. But, I also agree with another idea: That sometimes the best move, is the move that wasn't made. With where the team was when Mayhew and Schwartz took over, (the fact they made the playoffs in 2011 was astounding), it was predictable AND inevitable that they would take a step back last season. Just look at all the other teams that have done the same thing after being so bad for so long. Most of them have a good season and then they fall back into crapper for several more years. Examples: Rams and Chiefs. I just think we owed it to ourselves to see if last year was just a 1 year backslide or not. If they stink this year, fine fire them and move on. But, at least we gave them the chance to prove which year was the fraud. 2011 or 2012.

Billy, we didn't have a "magical playoff season," we had a soft schedule and got killed in the one playoff game we lucked ourselves into. We didn't "take a step back," we reverted to what we always were. Even in our "playoff season" we still didn't have a legitimate starting RG, #2 WR, WLB, FS, and #2 CB. That's why that offseason was so important. We had a chance to land guys that could have really improved our team, in a moment in time when it looked like our stock was rising, and we should have been able to pick up a cheap FA or two, without over-paying. We failed to do that, water found its level, and we're right back to where we were prior to that season, in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL. Mayhew and Schwartz should get zero credit for that season, as they had little to do with the outcome. Whomever made the schedule should get all of the credit for scheduling us 10-12 games with teams with under .500 records.

And THIS is why you get so much flack WJB.....can you please at least ATTEMPT to stay on topic. you have destroyed so many threads by beating the same damn dead horse over and over again, im bored with it. either find a way to stay on topic so we can read something different than the same ole tired rant, or find something new to talk about. You've repeated yourself over and over(and over and over, add nausium) on so many threads that had nothing to do with what the topic....give it a rest man. we ALL KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. can we move on now?

Eat a d!ck. I'm not the one that veered off topic. I responded to Billy, who veered off topic. Go phuck yourself. This why I respond with such vitreal. No substance, no meaningful post, you're just essentially saying "THIS IS WHY WE HATE YOU," and what's worse is, your criticism isn't even valid! I didn't start this diatribe about "our magical season" and why we should keep our current administration. I didn't veer off of the thread topic, and you come on here and criticize me for it. Go blow yourself.