Obama's greatest failing is purely political. He and the Democrats pulled America too far to the left, setting the stage for his successor.

Bush's presidency is defined by his failures in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Clinton had the good fortune to be president during the information revolution and its resultant economic boom. Domestically, Bill did some good with welfare reform and the like. But, his foreign policies were muddled, laying the foundation for the international disorder of the 21st Century.

I was alive for Carter, Reagan, and Bush 41. But I can't speak from first-hand knowledge about their presidencies.

Obama was supposed to be Bernie Sanders. I voted Obama in 08, and thought that was what I was going to get. What I got was not that. He failed to deliver on a lot of promises to the left. I think his legacy is going to be as the catalyst that began the left's version of the Tea Party. And we don't know what's going to happen yet. Will the Democratic Party fall apart, supplanted by a new third party? Will it remain, but taken over by socialists and other radicals? We will have to see, but this will have been a process started by Obama and accelerated by Hillary.

Bush Jr. I absolutely hated him for so many reasons as a teenager. His flaws were numerous, but what stands out to me is the hyper interventionism and the religious fundamentalism. I think he will go down in history as the last president elected by courting the evangelical vote.

Clinton I was largely politically unaware during these years, but even a kid like me knew he was mired in scandal after scandal. As an adult, I know him as the Democrat who set back gay rights for political gain, and implemented NAFTA. There's a lot of nostalgia for him among leftists and its absolute baffling. Rose colored glasses.

DeathScythe wrote:Obama was supposed to be Bernie Sanders. I voted Obama in 08, and thought that was what I was going to get. What I got was not that. He failed to deliver on a lot of promises to the left. I think his legacy is going to be as the catalyst that began the left's version of the Tea Party. And we don't know what's going to happen yet. Will the Democratic Party fall apart, supplanted by a new third party? Will it remain, but taken over by socialists and other radicals? We will have to see, but this will have been a process started by Obama and accelerated by Hillary.

The Democrats are interesting. My take is they always seem to hang together because they are united by The Cause. But the current party doesn't have much leadership. It will be interesting to see if someone steps up or the party factionalizes like the Republicans have been for years.

DeathScythe wrote:Bush Jr. I absolutely hated him for so many reasons as a teenager. His flaws were numerous, but what stands out to me is the hyper interventionism and the religious fundamentalism. I think he will go down in history as the last president elected by courting the evangelical vote.

I hope you're right.

DeathScythe wrote:Clinton I was largely politically unaware during these years, but even a kid like me knew he was mired in scandal after scandal. As an adult, I know him as the Democrat who set back gay rights for political gain, and implemented NAFTA. There's a lot of nostalgia for him among leftists and its absolute baffling. Rose colored glasses.

Clinton is the president who definitely turned me to the Right. As you say, he was mired in scandal after scandal. So I started associating the Democrats with bad government. (I know better now.) I think the Democrats look back to Clinton with nostalgia simply because the 90s were pretty good for a lot of Americans while a Democrat was in the White House, before Bush ruined it all.

"The Democrats are interesting. My take is they always seem to hang together because they are united by The Cause. But the current party doesn't have much leadership. It will be interesting to see if someone steps up or the party factionalizes like the Republicans have been for years."

I'm leaning to fractionalization at this point. Hillary supporters are now lashing out against Bernie again. We would be ripe for a third party if that were a thing that were possible. That was one of my positives for Trump, but now that he's true blue Republican we probably won't be seeing any change to the two party system.

I think the Democrats look back to Clinton with nostalgia simply because the 90s were pretty good for a lot of Americans while a Democrat was in the White House, before Bush ruined it all.

Well, the middle class has been shrinking for decades now. Things like Glass-Steagall being repealed and NAFTA implementation happened under Clinton. I wouldn't place all economic blame at Bush's feet. He definitely exacerbated everything with debt though.

DeathScythe wrote:I'm leaning to fractionalization at this point. Hillary supporters are now lashing out against Bernie again. We would be ripe for a third party if that were a thing that were possible. That was one of my positives for Trump, but now that he's true blue Republican we probably won't be seeing any change to the two party system.

Are you referring to involvement in Syria? What examples would you offer for Trump falling into line with the Establishment GOP and its Uniparty allies on the Democrat side?

"Quite a thing to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave."Since October 3rd, 2000 | An old Citadel board