you're right. it's a good thing Apple has never announced / introduced new hardware right after Christmas... .

The difference is that Apple announces new things AFTER Christmas. Sony just announced something new a week before Christmas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvaldes1831

Your worldview is embarrassingly America-centric. You should get out and travel the world more often. You'll look less like a boorish Yank.

Sony is headquartered in Japan. They often roll out new products in their home country first. Sony is thinking like Japanese. .

So? An enormous part of the market is in countries where Christmas is celebrated (including Japan as you pointed out):

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvaldes1831

Yeah, yeah, some of the younger Japanese couples trade extravagent presents as Western consumer practices extend their cultural hegemony over the world, but it's really no long-standing tradition of celebrating Christmas in Japan.

A very large portion of the world celebrates Christmas - and an even larger portion of the countries which are major consumers.

As I said, it is conceivable that there are good reasons to pre-announce this product that won't be available for a couple of months. It doesn't, however, make sense to wait until a week before Christmas. If they had announced it last month, it might have reduced demand for competitors' products as some people would choose to wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

Whenever I read about so-called hardcore gamers for a portable device I can't help but read it as hardcore lamers. It's like calling yourself a hardcore drinker because you can chug a Michelob Ultra.

Well said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

But seriously, we can all see that having a crap load of physical buttons, just in case a game needs them, without having to cover the display gives you a lot more options in game play design. But why does something so obvious need so much defense?

Remember, the best camera is the one you have on you and we all know that the best smartphone camera pales in comparison to the best DSLR. Bottom line is I'm not going to consider this device because I don't want another device to carry.

And that's the big issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinman0

Personally I think the idea of the 'hardcore gamers' is overstated at best. I know a few hardcore gamers but they are very much in the minority and they ditched consoles years ago and use the PC exclusively. Even used to be one myself, but never really bothered with consoles - purely PC.

The problem is there are just not enough 'hardcore' gamers to make these things viable any more.

And please stop kidding yourselves that 'hardcore gamers' are some sort of market elite which are a huge market. Sony and Nintendo want to sell millions of units to anyone who will buy it, not just some exclusive group that measures maybe 2-3m at most.

Then there is the issue of convergence, which is well underway. Mobile phones are becoming better cameras every day, and they've long since become adequate gaming platforms.

This is a device that will be consigned to a foot note of technology history.

And finally, we have the price of games - did we really used to spend $/£40 on a game? The game (so to speak) has moved on.

That's my concern. The 'hardcore gaming' market is getting more fragmented. A small percentage of PC owners are hard-core gamers. Of those, only a fraction will choose to play mobile games. Of that percentage, only some portion will choose the Vita. It's not going to be overwhelming.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Sony released its PlayStation Vita handheld gaming console in Japan on Saturday in a bid to recapture share in the mobile gaming market from Apple's iOS.

Come on. These devices are NOT in competition. Maybe iOS took some gaming dollars from extremely casual handheld players, but these are not the kind of players that would even spend $100 on a dedicated handheld gaming device.

iOS took over the mobile phone gaming market and has hugely expanded it (as previous mobile phones had garbage games). Notice how Nintendo/Sony's handhelds aren't really selling any worse than before.

More accurately Sony is competing directly with Nintendo on the 3DS, although even that is debatable. The DS/3DS has the youth market cornered, while the PSP/PS Vita are clearly aimed at an older audience, hence the heftier price tag.

Now about the console itself, personally, my only reservation is that the game library looks far worse than the 3DS at this point. Uncharted is basically the only game worth buying the system for. It remains to be seen whether the Vita gets more software support than the PSP. I don't think the PSP was ever worth it because it just didn't have enough good games.

Nintendo always has their big franchises that are always executed with quality. I think the Vita does have an advantage over the PSP in that many console games will be very easy to port over to the Vita. Plus, the behind-the-system touch panels are an innovative feature to me.

These companies just don't get it. How is this any different than the Nintendo DSI or XL or 3DS, or Sony PSP or PSPgo for that matter? The addition of 3G is not the answer.

What makes the iPhone, iPod and iPad the 700lb gorilla in the room is not only the fluid and extremely portable design, but the infrastructure. Mobile gaming is where the big money is. Sure, I like to sit down to an in-depth PS3 game every now and then, but with my busy lifestyle, all I really want is a brief distraction from time to time. That's what makes the Apple system great, is that it has millions of distracting titles to play, and it does a host of other things as well, with Siri being at the top of the potential list. This of course does not include the holistic approach that Apple is shooting for with flawless integration of devices, both mobile and home, as well as tying it all together with iCloud.

Again, Sony just doesn't get this, but really should learn from the tablet failures, as all I heard were about how heavy the specs were on some of the emerging devices over the Apple iPad, but at the end of the day, they never made it out of the gate, as Apple has planned this for years.

Portable gaming has taken on a new form, and offerings from Nintendo and Sony are missing the mark by a large margin.

The big thing is that Sony and Nintendo need an app store. Their current implementations don't count - they just aren't as good as the app store and the value isn't there and the software isn't there.

The other thing is that most people in Japan have train commutes to work, so handheld gaming for a long period of time is very popular there. The Vita will no doubt sell like crazy in Japan, I believe both the 3DS and PSP are currently the top 2 selling consoles in Japan on a weekly basis just about every week.

But here handhelds are sold mostly to kids in the US and the big reason to get one over an iPhone is that there are no monthly fees (which wouldn't fly in the kids market). And I think it's one reason why the Vita will fail to sell well in the US.

Anyone who lives in a big city here in the US who takes the subway to work would be in the market for these devices over the iPod or iPhone, but there are probably not enough of those people in the US for it to be a big market.

The only one that's actually a real sentence (Hardware mainly created for games is best for games), is easily disprovable by looking at one of the biggest names in the gaming field, Nintendo. They consistently beat out Sony at mobile gaming and their hardware is famously some of the worst there is.

You didn't disprove anything. Nintendo does hardware mainly created for games. Apple doesn't. Nintendo's and Sony's marketing is solely orientated on gaming (with very rare exceptions), contrary to Apple's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zozman

My DSLR (Canon 7D) is far better at taking photos then my 4s, not shock there but that doesn't make my phone less amazing, i carry my iPhone with me everywhere.

Be careful with what you say, someone here is going to tell you that the iPhone 4S is better than your Canon for taking pictures. I keep coming here for news and it's so funny to see such fanboism. This may be the heart of Apple fanboism. People talking about patents and comparing iOS games to playstation or Nintendo titles... Pff that's just sad. They clearly don't know what they are talking about. (and don't try to explain that the gaming infrastructure and hardware is better on the Vita, people will think you are crazy).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

How about this: There are no hardcore gamers, just hardcore investments in gaming.

I played 8 hours a day of Skyrim for the past 2 weeks. Can't I be called a hardcore gamer?
December 17, 2011 :
SolipsismX decides that the term "hardcore gamer" is inappropriate.

The problem is the price of the games. If they come in at $4.99 it has a chance at $40 it's going to struggle.

Perhaps. It depends on the titles. People pay those kinds of prices (and more) for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, for example, and that has sold in the multi-millions. For me, the problem is portability. Not in whether the Vita is physically portable, but in why you would carry another device besides your smartphone just for the purpose of gaming, if you're on the move? Sony's answer is that the Vita has "real games" but that was the same play book they used with the PSP. And that didn't fend off declining sales. I had a PSP, I used to carry it around, I used to buy top tier games for $40. Been there, done that. I'd rather pay $60 and get the full console version that I can play on my TV with a real console controller and carry an iPhone for portable gaming.

I played 8 hours a day of Skyrim for the past 2 weeks. Can't I be called a hardcore gamer?

My quip about hardcore lamers is sounding apropos. But seriously, why does 8 hours x 14 days of Skyrim make you more "hardcore" than someone who studies/plays chess, Scrabble/WwF, or Angry Birds for as long or longer. I'm studied chess, memorized every 2 and 3 letter words in Scrabble, and made 3 stars on every level of Angry Birds HD but I wouldn't call myself hardcore despite the time and effort put into this entertainment.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

My quip about hardcore lamers is sounding apropos. But seriously, why does 8 hours x 14 days of Skyrim make you more "hardcore" than someone who studies/plays chess, Scrabble/WwF, or Angry Birds for as long or longer. I'm studied chess, memorized every 2 and 3 letter words in Scrabble, and made 3 stars on every level of Angry Birds HD but I wouldn't call myself hardcore despite the time and effort put into this entertainment.

Did you play as long or longer? In that case I'd call that hardcore. Look, I didn't invent the term. Everybody knows what that means. There is always going to be someone who's more hardcore than you and says that you aren't hardcore. That doesn't change the fact that someone who plays a few minutes a day on his iPhone isn't a hardcore gamer.

hardcore |ˈhɑrd ˈˌkɔ(ə)r|noun
- the most active, committed, or doctrinaire members of a group or movement:

OK, that certainly fits with someone who is willing to build their own PC for $3k just to have a couple more frame rates than the next guy and some goofy accessories that assist in making the gaming experience more involved, so I guess what perplexes me is why anyone would brag about such a setup (imagine someone with a luxury sports car bragging. That's right, they're a douche). And that's a real investment, unlike buying a consumer handheld gaming device.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Did you play as long or longer? In that case I'd call that hardcore. Look, I didn't invent the term. Everybody knows what that means. There is always going to be someone who's more hardcore than you and says that you aren't hardcore. That doesn't change the fact that someone who plays a few minutes a day on his iPhone isn't a hardcore gamer.

And kudos for the 2-3 letter words lol

Sounds like it's the investment in the game play not the equipment that is being used that makes one hardcore as defined by the New Oxford American English dictionary. That means that someone who buys books and spends hours per day playing Suduko or crossword puzzles are hardcore.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Just another example of people thinking that they get to redefine language just because they're some kind of uber hardcore game jockey.

If you're stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere and your car breaks down, how much is your Vita going to help you?

If you're on the road and your boss sends you an important email, what good is your Vita?

If you need to track your finances, what good is your Vita?

Sure - if your life revolves around being a 'cooler' game player than anyone else, feel free to brag about your Vita. But don't give me the crap about it being superior or more powerful or how no one else matters because they don't share your insane fantasy with pixels on a screen.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Sounds like it's the investment in the game play not the equipment that is being used that makes one hardcore as defined by the New Oxford American English dictionary. That means that someone who buys books and spends hours per day playing Suduko or crossword puzzles are hardcore.

That's what I said.

That doesn't mean that someone who likes to play games that were developed for longer than one week and cost 50$ and come only on the Vita because of its better hardware is an idiot.

Just another example of people thinking that they get to redefine language just because they're some kind of uber hardcore game jockey.

If you're stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere and your car breaks down, how much is your Vita going to help you?

If you're on the road and your boss sends you an important email, what good is your Vita?

If you need to track your finances, what good is your Vita?

Sure - if your life revolves around being a 'cooler' game player than anyone else, feel free to brag about your Vita. But don't give me the crap about it being superior or more powerful or how no one else matters because they don't share your insane fantasy with pixels on a screen.

Yeah, you're right. The Vita isn't even able to make coffee. Oh wait.

You can send emails with the 3G vita via the browser. You can't with the wifi model, just as you can't with a wifi iPad.

You should try to understand, even if it may be difficult to you, that people buy a Vita to play and have fun, not to brag.

And it should be clear to anyone that you are the one trying to redefine language, more powerful one.

Perhaps. It depends on the titles. People pay those kinds of prices (and more) for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, for example, and that has sold in the multi-millions. For me, the problem is portability. Not in whether the Vita is physically portable, but in why you would carry another device besides your smartphone just for the purpose of gaming, if you're on the move? Sony's answer is that the Vita has "real games" but that was the same play book they used with the PSP. And that didn't fend off declining sales. I had a PSP, I used to carry it around, I used to buy top tier games for $40. Been there, done that. I'd rather pay $60 and get the full console version that I can play on my TV with a real console controller and carry an iPhone for portable gaming.

I love the iOS devices but as far as gaming goes, they don't come close to a dedicated gaming console, don't fool yourselves people.

My iPhone 4s & iPad 2 are for other things & very very part time for games when i have a few minutes to kill, id play PC or console games when real gaming needs to be done

i'll order the vita pretty soon, Uncharted look very rad indeed.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Don't fool yourself. The PSP has never been huge, and this device will be no different. QUALITY of gaming is subjective, and not only that, but it appears to matter less and less. People are choosing all-in-one mobile devices over multiple, dedicated-feature mobile devices.

Understand: It makes NO difference if the quality of gameplay (being more traditional aka old style) is better on a joy stick and button device. This is proving to NOT be a purchasing factor. While it may make sense to you, its not making sense to the majority of consumers. The majority are choosing to play simpler games, as the trade off, and gaining the benefits of, 1) A single device, 2) inexpensive titles.

What Sony does not get and will never get is that $30 and up games are out to lunch when it comes to portable. Consoles will always have their niche gaming market, but any and all future attempts at taking that to the mobile space is going to fail.

Also, a little thing that Sony didn't expect....iOS games are getting pretty good. They still don't hold a candle to say a PS3 game (again, doesn't seem to matter according to purchase decisions), but the better they get the shorter that "leg up" gets. I mean, look at Dead Space on iOS. If that is whats available now on current hardware, imagine where we'll be in the next 2 years.

Just another example of people thinking that they get to redefine language just because they're some kind of uber hardcore game jockey.

If you're stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere and your car breaks down, how much is your Vita going to help you?

If you're on the road and your boss sends you an important email, what good is your Vita?

If you need to track your finances, what good is your Vita?

Sure - if your life revolves around being a 'cooler' game player than anyone else, feel free to brag about your Vita. But don't give me the crap about it being superior or more powerful or how no one else matters because they don't share your insane fantasy with pixels on a screen.

The Vita is not marketed as a multi purpose device.

If the iPhone can run an app, it could be done on the Vita.

Sony knows many people have smart phones that run their fart apps, virtual cigarette lighters, etc.

The next iPad will probably come very close to the Vita specs.
Does not make the iPad a true gamer device when you don't have physical controls.

But that just makes me want both devices.

Again, this mindset is wrong, and market will prove it. It is literally IDENTICAL to the people who thought phones with no physical keyboard were toast. They were simply wrong, and never admitted it. Gaming devices will follow suit.

Don't forget that you probably have to agree to legal terms stating that you cannot join a Class Action lawsuit against Sony if they fail as securing your personal and financial information with them as part of using the backend services for the Vita. You know, because we can all afford the personal expense to Sony as individuals.

Just another example of people thinking that they get to redefine language just because they're some kind of uber hardcore game jockey.

If you're stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere and your car breaks down, how much is your Vita going to help you?

If you're on the road and your boss sends you an important email, what good is your Vita?

If you need to track your finances, what good is your Vita?

Sure - if your life revolves around being a 'cooler' game player than anyone else, feel free to brag about your Vita. But don't give me the crap about it being superior or more powerful or how no one else matters because they don't share your insane fantasy with pixels on a screen.

I have a wifi iPad. I can't send emails when I am on the road with it.

Again, this mindset is wrong, and market will prove it. It is literally IDENTICAL to the people who thought phones with no physical keyboard were toast. They were simply wrong, and never admitted it. Gaming devices will follow suit.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Don't fool yourself. The PSP has never been huge, and this device will be no different. QUALITY of gaming is subjective, and not only that, but it appears to matter less and less. People are choosing all-in-one mobile devices over multiple, dedicated-feature mobile devices.

Understand: It makes NO difference if the quality of gameplay (being more traditional aka old style) is better on a joy stick and button device. This is proving to NOT be a purchasing factor. While it may make sense to you, its not making sense to the majority of consumers. The majority are choosing to play simpler games, as the trade off, and gaining the benefits of, 1) A single device, 2) inexpensive titles.

No, that's not what's happening. People that didn't play before are beginning to play on their phones, and may be tempted to get a wii for casual gaming. People that played before on consoles are not ditching them for touch based controls. In your dreams.

Again, this mindset is wrong, and market will prove it. It is literally IDENTICAL to the people who thought phones with no physical keyboard were toast. They were simply wrong, and never admitted it. Gaming devices will follow suit.

You should play more. I always believe in touch controls for phones. Games is another matter.

Again, this mindset is wrong, and market will prove it. It is literally IDENTICAL to the people who thought phones with no physical keyboard were toast. They were simply wrong, and never admitted it. Gaming devices will follow suit.

I was all for the touch keyboards over the physical ones.

But play a 1st person shooter with hardware controls vs touch controls and get back with me.

I am not knocking touch screens. THe best thing to come to mobile devices. But not the end all to everything.

Whenever I read about so-called hardcore gamers for a portable device I can't help but read it as hardcore lamers. It's like calling yourself a hardcore drinker because you can chug a Michelob Ultra.

But seriously, we can all see that having a crap load of physical buttons, just in case a game needs them, without having to cover the display gives you a lot more options in game play design. But why does something so obvious need so much defense?

Remember, the best camera is the one you have on you and we all know that the best smartphone camera pales in comparison to the best DSLR. Bottom line is I'm not going to consider this device because I don't want another device to carry.

I have to laugh at the "you're not a real gamer unless you spend x amount of dollars on a REAL device and play Call of Duty, blah, blah, blah" thing. I think it was on ARS that I saw a thread with these "my shit don't stink" hardcore gamers taking this holier than thou attitude and I had to laugh because . . .

It's a toy, period. Whether you get your gaming yah yahs on an iDevice, a Sony thing or a Nintendo thing, or a MS thing it's about entertainment and enjoyment. If for some reason you're measuring your self-esteem and self-worth in terms of how many kills you have or how many points you've accumulated, I strongly suggest you put the controller down and go outside, go make friends, go learn a skill, go get a job or something.

I have to laugh at the "you're not a real gamer unless you spend x amount of dollars on a REAL device and play Call of Duty, blah, blah, blah" thing. I think it was on ARS that I saw a thread with these "my shit don't stink" hardcore gamers taking this holier than thou attitude and I had to laugh because . . .

It's a toy, period. Whether you get your gaming yah yahs on an iDevice, a Sony thing or a Nintendo thing, or a MS thing it's about entertainment and enjoyment. If for some reason you're measuring your self-esteem and self-worth in terms of how many kills you have or how many points you've accumulated, I strongly suggest you put the controller down and go outside, go make friends, go learn a skill, go get a job or something.

I kind of agree, some people have that mindset. For me being an hardcore gamer just means that I spend a lot of time on games, know much about them and about how video games work in general (most games work the same in a way).

Again, this mindset is wrong, and market will prove it. It is literally IDENTICAL to the people who thought phones with no physical keyboard were toast. They were simply wrong, and never admitted it. Gaming devices will follow suit.

For GAMING, the Vita is the better experience.

But that does not make it the best device for everything. Not being one sided in this debate.

I love the iPad and really can't imagine not having one now. And if I were limited to just one or the other, the iPad wins.

replace the iphone's "home" button with an analog pad and replace the volume up/down buttons with a few "shoulder" buttons on opposite ends of that side. i understand apple's fanaticism w/ regards to simplicity, but i would love to see a couple more [programmable] buttons on the side[s] of the iPhone.

Personally, I find the whole concept of "hard core" gamers offensive. I would agree that the "hard core gamer" as currently defined would be that tiny group of folks that like to sit at a console and play the war games, (and not mobile), but why is this and only this considered to be "hard core gaming"?

The very idea that the only "real" games, or the only games that matter are 3D war simulations with guns and ammo etc. is highly offensive. Gaming has been around since the dawn of civilisation and rarely if ever has it involved military simulations exclusively.

Are those of us that play puzzle games and board games (which require both more skill and more intelligence than running around shooting virtual enemies with our made up space rifles), to believe that we are dilettantes? Not "real" gamers? Why? Because we are smarter and less easily amused than the average "hard core" gamer?

I guess your ignorance on the matter has caught up with you. And this:

Quote:

Are those of us that play puzzle games and board games (which require both more skill and more intelligence than running around shooting virtual enemies with our made up space rifles), to believe that we are dilettantes? Not "real" gamers? Why? Because we are smarter and less easily amused than the average "hard core" gamer?

Makes you look every bit as elitist as them. Guess as an Apple user it feels natural, huh?

THESE are hardcore games. And they are not shooters. Many do not require "skill" to be played, because most of them aren't competitive. Others require more of it that 99% of board games. They are meant to be engaging.

Actually, most hardcore gamers agree that the market is currently over-saturated with first person shooters that are repetitive and formulaic.

Your worldview is embarrassingly America-centric. You should get out and travel the world more often. You'll look less like a boorish Yank.

Sony is headquartered in Japan. They often roll out new products in their home country first. Sony is thinking like Japanese.

They don't celebrate Christmas there; the official state religion is Shinto. The 25th day of December is a regular day (except for this year, since it falls on a Sunday which is in fact normal day off for most Japanese workers).

Yeah, yeah, some of the younger Japanese couples trade extravagent presents as Western consumer practices extend their cultural hegemony over the world, but it's really no long-standing tradition of celebrating Christmas in Japan.

And guess what? They don't celebrate Thanksgiving either!

Note that many U.S. gaming product launches have occurred at large trade shows like CES (January) or E3 (spring). Since the industry historically did not ship product the same day they announce, they would pre-announce to generate hype over the upcoming months.

Apple has changed the game.

but that there's no xmas celebration there for them might be the route cause of trouble.

THESE are hardcore games. And they are not shooters. Many do not require "skill" to be played, because most of them aren't competitive. Others require more of it that 99% of board games. They are meant to be engaging.

Actually, most hardcore gamers agree that the market is currently over-saturated with first person shooters that are repetitive and formulaic.

Wow you don't mention WoW. Some people I know play WoW and they are hardcore whatever definition you use.