I arrived at a party with a group of friends and struck up a conversation with a girl. We both were a bit drunk, but not to any dangerous levels, and slowly moved our conversation to the dance floor. We started dancing, then making out, then before I knew it, her hand was down my pants. I was surprised, as I hadn’t given her consent to take things a step farther, but I was nevertheless okay with it. Time passed with us together on the dance floor until she began whispering in my ear that she wanted to have sex. While I was enjoying myself, sex was not on the agenda for the night.

Still, he felt responsible for getting her home safely, which his attacker took advantage of:

We started walking home together, but our walk was prolonged by frequent stop-offs. We’d take a few steps holding hands, then take a moment to move off the path and make out with each other for a bit. After a while, these stop-offs became less of a mutual decision and more of a demand from her. I began denying her advances; it was late and I just wanted to get her home safely so I could get some sleep. She continued to engage with me and I denied her requests with a verbal “no” several times. After several failed attempts to push off her advances, we got to the point where I was trading kisses and gropes for steps back to her dorm. Several times her hands went down my pants, and I was not okay with it. I did my best to stick to my “no” every time she demanded more, but at each denial she would stop dead in her tracks and refused to walk with me unless I complied. I felt stuck. Dragging her back to her dorm with her fighting against me simply didn’t feel right. Physically fighting her struggle was not the safest means to that end. But, it didn’t feel right to abandon her there either. She was drunk and could not be left alone in the state she was in. So I felt I had only one option: I complied.

It wasn’t until eight months later that he started to realize he had been attacked:

Trading kisses and gropes for steps back toward her dorm? The whole situation seemed laughable, all centering on the inconceivable image of a horny college male denying a female’s sexual advances.

In June, I started asking why the events happened even though I said no. It didn’t seem like sexual assault. I wasn’t physically beaten or forced to engage with her. This wasn’t some traumatic event that threw me into a deep depression.

But Stanford’s current definition of sexual assault states, “Sexual assault is the actual, attempted or threatened unwanted sexual act, whether by an acquaintance or by a stranger, accomplished against a person’s will by means of force (express or implied), violence, duress, menace, fear or fraud. If coercion, intimidation, threats and/or physical force are used, there is no consent.”

He reached out to the YWCA Sexual Assault Center, but ran smack into the victim blaming of Rape Culture:

I began recounting my experience to the woman on the other line. I told my side of the story and she listened attentively until I ended with the simple question, “Does this qualify as sexual assault?” After a short moment acknowledging the difficulty of all the factors at play, what she said left me flabbergasted.

“You just have to be careful,” she said to me plainly. She began to outline how situations like these are difficult when alcohol is involved, but when I reiterated that I clearly said “no” and felt trapped in the situation she continued to astound me with her suggestions at what I should or could have done. “You could have just left her,” she insisted. “If I were a man in your shoes, I would have definitely called 911.” At this point it was tough to hold back my frustration. I was calling this hotline because I was trying to figure out if what I experienced was sexual assault. How could I have called 911 in the moment if I didn’t even know I was being sexually assaulted?

The whole thing reads like a perfectly tuned piece of black knighting, which makes me wonder if the author is a reader of Vox Day.

“You just have to be careful,” she said to me plainly. She began to outline how situations like these are difficult when alcohol is involved, but when I reiterated that I clearly said “no” and felt trapped in the situation she continued to astound me with her suggestions at what I should or could have done. “You could have just left her,” she insisted. “If I were a man in your shoes, I would have definitely called 911.”

Another one of the cardinal virtues of feminism is it insists on people not thinking. If you start to think things through, situations where the feminist imperative trumps all (even looking out for and protecting a feminist) makes sense provided thinking is not permitted. Thus you have this situation. The person on the hotline receiving the call, their response is entirely step-driven where the scenario in question is not in anyway a possibility to even be considered. So she defaulted to the model of NOT using logic and deferring to the feminist imperative.

To think, we have our ENFORCABLE LAWS in this country writen this way.

I’ll be anxiously awaiting Susan Walsh to leap to this man’s aid and denounce this dastardly woman for the horrendous thing this attacker did to this man. I’ll be waiting with bated breath for the HUSsies to proclaim that the Campus Rape Center fell down on the job by not frogmarching the attacker into the kangaroo courts to face justice. I’ll be waiting for Susan to do her expose on this woman and the campus, for failing to expel this drunk woman. Why did the college not ruin this woman’s life with a rape expulsion and investigation hanging over her sorry head forever and ever?

This is grossly irresponsible. It’s just plain wrong to force a man to have to deal with a women when coming to terms with the fact that he was assaulted. They need a dedicated line where men can be sure that they will be talking with other men, to ensure that they feel safe and are understood.

I used to work in a beach bar. I was an assistant manager. I wasn’t one of the cool bar tenders. In the morning I did manager stuff and at night I stocked the bar and made sure we didn’t run out of stuff. But even though I was a nobody I had women hitting on me all the time, wanting to drink with me, go dancing with them, take them to other clubs, or take them home. And all of them knew I was married. The ring was right there. I would occasionally have a drink with them and chat but I had to say no to everything else. One of the girls was really cute and worked as a waitress / bartender at a local restaurant. She always wanted me to do mind erasers and go out dancing with her. I always had to say no to going out. If I were a lesser man it would have been so easy to say yes, but I couldn’t. One woman used to wait outside the door after we closed wanting me to take her home. I would hide and have my coworkers tell her I already went home for the night. She wouldn’t believe them because she had figured out which car was mine. Stalker anyone? Women don’t care if you’re married. They don’t care if you want them. If they want you they will pursue you and pester you until you give in or tell them to get lost. And if you tell them to get lost be prepared for false accusations. You better cover your ass. Make sure everyone around knows the situation. Don’t be caught alone with her.

Actually, I don’t think we’ll have the HUSsies pay any attention to this story.

What’s more likely to happen is a repeat of the Scott Aaronson Comment 171 blogswarm/attack by Amanda Marcotte and Laurie Penny. For those not in the know, Aaronson is an EE/Computer Science professor at MIT. He wrote an impassioned comment on his blog of his teen nerdiness and ineptitude with women. (He’s now married and a son.)

His simple plaintive plea for understanding prompted a feminist savaging from Marcotte and Penny. Marcotte fisked his comment and basically called him a misogynist, short-dicked loser. Penny told him to check his male privilege.

Marcotte and the rest of her gang will find this victim and run him up the flagpole, doxx him, publicize any dirt on him, hound him, harass him, and basically rip his life apart.

The whole story sounds made up, as I can’t imagine it being true if the author actually possessed a Y chromosome, or at least two functioning brain cells to rub together. I’m guessing the author wrote it for the purpose of getting a pity-f*ck from the girl he orbits.

The practice of black-knighting like this leaves me uncomfortable. On one hand, it’s undeniably effective in countering the feminist agenda. On the other hand, it’s morally questionable. I seriously doubt the guy in question honestly thinks he might have been raped.

A comparable situation would be our military’s policy towards hostages. What do you do when your enemy uses a hostage to stop your attack? On one hand, you could make a point of immediately killing the hostage then killing the enemy. Do that consistently and the bad guys will stop using hostages because it doesn’t work… which, In the long run, can actually minimize noncombatant casualties. On the other hand, you could pull back, wait, and let the enemy regroup in the hope (never guarantee) of sparing the hostage. In the short term you’re protecting innocent life, in the long term the bad guys are encouraged to use hostages because it works. I heard stories from the Gulf Wars in which our military had to confront that exact kind of situation and was proud that our troops valued human life much more than the Arabs did.

So, black knighting. Do we abandon our morality to turn the enemy’s immorality back on itself, knowing that it’ll bring us more and faster success, or do we hold the moral high ground and risk our enemies continuing to use the law as a weapon against us? Vox Day admits to sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies so I doubt he loses sleep over this but Paul in Romans says we can’t do evil in order to achieve a good outcome. But Vox’s black-knight strategy will work.

“They need a dedicated line where men can be sure that they will be talking with other men, to ensure that they feel safe and are understood.”

That is true. I actually did this, created and run a men’s sexual abuse support group for several years. Because I thought it would help me with my own experiences, and there was nothing in Minneapolis-St Paul like it. And, yes, men tend to “get” other men on these issues. It got rather big to continue completely on my own so I trained at a rape crisis center, got very positive feedback from staff and men seeking help…. in short, only to run out by the hateful feminists, social workers and their politics, false accusations, ideological BS, etc. The whole experience really has opened my eyes to the depths of depravity that we have sunk to. Not that many particularly care, or even notice.

I hope this young man lands on his feet, and indeed does not have lasting effects from this. I’ve heard so many men talk about something like this with 30 years of hindsight to know the risks of alcoholism, suicide and self-harm, relationship issues, depression, isolation, pervasive distrust of others are there.

The practice of black-knighting like this leaves me uncomfortable. On one hand, it’s undeniably effective in countering the feminist agenda. On the other hand, it’s morally questionable. I seriously doubt the guy in question honestly thinks he might have been raped.

A comparable situation would be our military’s policy towards hostages. What do you do when your enemy uses a hostage to stop your attack? On one hand, you could make a point of immediately killing the hostage then killing the enemy.

Who is he harming? All he is doing is noting that what happened is defined by the university as sexual assault, and letting the whole “Rape Culture” crowd twist in the wind. He says it didn’t traumatize him. He doesn’t name the woman and states that he doesn’t want her punished, he just wants her to know that what she did is sexual assault.

Paul in Romans says we can’t do evil in order to achieve a good outcome

Saul of Tarsus said one thing, John Jay, VI Lenin and Che Guevara have a different take on these matters. You have to have faith in those of us secular bros who will do this evil work for you. Let us be your footsoldiers for the greater good, while you do what you’re best at (finding worthy women and having a bunch of healthy, patriarchy minded kids with her).

Rules for Radicals #4: Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.

The left has been following this book for decades (Hillary Clinton wrote a college thesis on it, a young Barack Obama used it as a text book to teach community organizing to others), but they’ve never had to deal with being on the wrong end of these rules.

If she woke up in the morning and felt regret, she could have charged him with rape and in today’s campus environment, she would’ve been believed. It doesn’t matter if he was drunk, too. Women good, men bad. If she became pregnant, he could be on the hook for child support for at least 18 years. So, yeah, it is possible some young men are getting gun shy around aggressive women, especially drunk ones.

Where is the “bad part” of what he is doing now? Loose behavior is immoral and I would not encourage it as a Christian, but noting what happened is not wrong. Exposing the system for the hypocrisy it is would be a duty, not a bad thing.

“…she began explicitly insisting that the woman in my case might not even know what happened that night and could accuse me of sexual assault. I had gone from possible victim to possible attacker in this woman’s eyes.”

Really this is the only possible conclusion a Feminist-programmed counselor can reach because it is always, ALWAYS the man’s fault even when it isn’t.

I literally saw a conversation where someone brought up the fact that men can be forced into fatherhood and their response was LITERALLY “Well if you can’t handle the responsibility, maybe you shouldn’t be having sex.”

Every single Feminist argument is projection: “Women get paid less,” “Rape Culture,” etc.

Don’t you guys get it? If anything he raped her. As any serious feminist will tell you, all heterosexual sex is rape, and we know that rape can only be committed by the one carrying an x and a y chromosome.

I’m still trying to figure this all out. I think my wife shit tests me… I know she lacks submission and is more disrespectful than she should. She is working on it, and for the last 4 years I have had sex 9/10 I want it. In fact, I joke with her sometimes in the kitchen about ‘her wanting it right now’ when I actually will initiate later, but she’ll look over at me and say, “we could go upstairs right now if you want”. To that I reply, “why do we have to go upstairs?”

If I could have nightly sex, does the rest matter? I am being compensated for my provisions…

For anyone who might be struggling with what the author is doing, read it as satire:

When I got back to my dorm at 2:30 that night, I was confused. Didn’t I go out wanting to engage in sexual contact? Shouldn’t I feel proud and confident that someone wanted me? As a man, shouldn’t I always want sex? This had been what I wanted for so long, but once it was in front of me, it simply didn’t feel right.

I don’t fault her for my change of heart; I fault her for not listening to my clear “no” several times after I made my final decision. Was the situation handled perfectly? No. I was confused, horny and intoxicated. I wasn’t properly educated to even understand that this experience would qualify as sexual assault. But even with all of these things in play, the fact of the matter is that my “no” was not respected. Sure, she didn’t use force, but what was I supposed to do?

***

About eight months had passed since my assault before I even considered the gravity of what happened that night.

Adding to the beauty of it, we have no way of knowing if any of it actually happened. And if he comes out tomorrow and recants the whole thing, the proper response will be to not let fact checking define the narrative; the important thing is that men suffer from sexual assault on campus.

walking her back to her dorm? this is a ridiculous statement. i don’t believe nonsense when it comes from girls & i’m not believing this either. he could have walked away or not walked her back in the 1st place. he consented. then he brings it up 8 months later?

this helps no one. it only legitimizes the stupid & ever-expanding definition that SJW are using. it will just backfire. this is not something to be cheering about.

Adding to the beauty of it, we have no way of knowing if any of it actually happened. And if he comes out tomorrow and recants the whole thing, the proper response will be to not let fact checking define the narrative

Come to think of it…..

….I don’t believe the story. Sorry guys of the manosphere, I’m not buying it without a name. This sounds a little Rolling Stone-UVa-Jackie-ish/Lena Dunham-only GOP member on campus-ish/Duke Lacrosse-Crystal Gail Magnumish/Tawana Brawley-Steve Pagones-ish to me.

…the important thing is that men suffer from sexual assault on campus.

From women? Does it exist?

I was a virgin and 17 when went to college. 4 weeks into dorm life I did something stupid and had a girl that I didn’t real care about sleep with me in my dorm room. We didn’t “do it” but we were naked. We were kissing and she put her hand on something that I wasn’t ready for and I freaked out. I was nervous and scared and I swatted her hand away and well….. she pulled her hand away. And that was it. I didn’t even have to say “no.” She just stopped. And we went back to kissing instead. And that was it.

Point is I think women DO STOP if men say no. When they want it they try real hard and put on the full court press but they always respected my telling them “no.” I have no personal experience here of being assaulted. I suppose it could happen, but, it never did for me.

If the answer to the question, “Who is he harming?”, is, “Nobody”, then it’s not black-knighting.

If he was black-knighting, there are two possible targets: The author’s hookup, or the YWCA. The article didn’t leave me with the impression that either one were targets. Getting the YWCA in trouble is the move of an egalitarian (aka post-modernist/feminist/etc.) true believer; not a black-knight that we should support.

The author writes that he does not want the woman he hooked up with to get in trouble, but if he were black-knighting he would insist upon some action against her. Morally, such black-knighting would be wrong. She didn’t sexually assault him past the first time she put his hands down his pants. Everything that occurred after that was by his choice (whether an a feminist agrees or should agree) and mitigates even her initial crime of groping him.

Nor is the assailant personally responsible for the silly (yet dangerous) post-modern views and rules against which one might black-knight; at least the author does not accuse her of it. The use of complaining about her immoral-yet-legal actions as a way to black-knight against “The System” puts her in danger to suffer real damage from a fake crime…if he were black-knighting

My conclusion is the he does not wish to harm the so-called assailant, he is not black-knighting, and that he is a true-believing egalitarian/feminist/post-modernist who would be delighted for institutions to practice ignorance according to the sexes. That would be a bad and stupid thing to occur, but it never will. The cumulative effect of this article will likely be:

1) 1 of 10 of female readers will re-think their own sexual strategies for about five minutes before they return to doing what they feel they can get away with.
2) 9 of 10 male readers will mistakenly think this article will prove that we can and should be egalitarian.

1) 1 of 10 of female readers will re-think their own sexual strategies for about five minutes before they return to doing what they feel they can get away with.
2) 9 of 10 male readers will mistakenly think this article will prove that we can and should be egalitarian.

1) yep!
2) Yep!

We need men to be men and women to be women. Let’s dispense with the PC rules of the day. There are better alternatives than engaging on feminist terms, even if those terms are the norm.

My conclusion is the he does not wish to harm the so-called assailant, he is not black-knighting, and that he is a true-believing egalitarian/feminist/post-modernist who would be delighted for institutions to practice ignorance according to the sexes.

This overlooks the fact that the whole piece is dripping with a carefully calculated ridiculousness. He carefully describes a scenario where the rules say it is assault, but no one, including the author (and he tells us this repeatedly), would ever call it assault if the rules didn’t say it was. Then he shops this story around getting feminists to inadvertently play the role of rape culture apologist.

It happened to me, and I’m guessing I’m not the only one here. I had a girlfriend who just wouldn’t taking “No” for an answer one night. I had to physically push her away. Women can be at least as sexually “entitled” as feminists claim men are.

Looks like Stanford students aren’t as smart as they’re reputed to be. Young lady comes on strong, guy sleeps with her….and the chances are pretty darned good (like about 100% ) that she has, or has had, an STD.

Looks like Stanford students aren’t as smart as they’re reputed to be. Young lady comes on strong, guy sleeps with her….and the chances are pretty darned good (like about 100% ) that she has, or has had, an STD.

He doesn’t suggest that they had sex. The “assault” was him agreeing to let her kiss him and grope him so he could keep her walking home.

My father blamed my mother for taking his virginity. The first I heard of this was when he was in the final stages of dying with prostate cancer, so it has more merit. I was skeptical, but it wouldn’t shock me. Both are passed away now, so sharing it doesn’t directly harm either. (I was the result of that situation.)

He was VERY outgoing later, which makes it hard to believe he was a wallflower type in high school and the early adult years, but it does fit with what I heard from some other sources over the years.

Saying women always stop is putting them on a pedestal. They are just as subject to sin as anyone else.

Really this is the only possible conclusion a Feminist-programmed counselor can reach because it is always, ALWAYS the man’s fault even when it isn’t.

Right. Start from the assumption that women never do wrong, then what options are there? He’s lying and it didn’t happen, he’s lying about the details and he did ask for it, he was fine with it then and is getting back at her for something, she’s a victim of childhood abuse by men…. Gotta be somewhere in there, because it simply cannot be that a woman molestered a guy who didn’t want it. Women don’t do that.

If he wasn’t a white knight in the first place, he wouldn’t need to black knight. I would’ve had no problem at all with leaving the drunk B in the street. Seriously, I can’t stand drunk women, there is hardly any less sexy condition I can imagine a female in.

Along with everyone else, I’m glad he’s black knighting because in the long run it may help bring these discussions back to a place of common sense.

I think things like this happen more often than you’d think – and any male performer will contest that women sexually assault them (or try to)… stalk them, etc. Google Tim McGraw having to slap a woman for trying to grab him & ripping his pants. Women everywhere (some of my friends even!) were on the woman’s side!!! But if it was the other way around, the male would be put in jail!

I’m all for this post Dalrock! Sometimes, women are the animals… and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. (think Potiphar & his bored wife with Joseph – the sexual assault victim).

The thing is, LOTS of guys have had this happen to them. This is not unusual or strange in any way. This is probably exactly what happed and it happens all the time. Good looking guys have a girlfriend and some chick comes up, grabs his schwag, sticks her tongue down his throat. He pull back, I have a Girlfriend. I love her. More rubbing and an easy slick insertion.

Black knighting par excellence. Effective because it is true, or at least highly plausible, and it shows how ridiculous this entire “rape culture” nonsense really is.

>Let us be your footsoldiers for the greater good, while you do what you’re
>best at (finding worthy women and having a bunch of healthy, patriarchy
>minded kids with her).

Uhhh… exactly WHERE am I supposed to find a unicorn, oops, I mean, a worthy woman?
To be fair, in my “church” congregation of about 300-400, there are 3 women that do not obviously live in rebellion against God. Meaning, not wearing men’s clothing (Deut 22:5), having hair that could conceivably be considered to be long enough to “be her glory” (1 Cor 11:14-16) and refraining from daily gluttony leading to being overweight (sorry, don’t have a reference memorized; do a search for “gluttony”).
Of those three, one is married and one I did date but she did not find me sufficient (looks/sexual attractiveness). The third is about 20 years younger than me so I would be considered a creep/pig/disgusting old man/ and thus I see no chance for success with her.
At work, out of about 100 adult women, I know of 1 who consistently obeys the three items listed above.

The three items are relevant to finding “worthy women”, because
a) a woman living in rebellion against God is not worthy for the kind of marriage I want, where we will live in obedience to an external authority (Bible) rather than our ever-changing whims and feelings, and
b) I find women with pants like men, or short hair like men, or obese, to be disgusting, and thus undesirable.

OK, I have a better example of real assault than this, and I’m sure many men do if they reflect a
little.

This happened in the early 70’s (yes, I’m that old), in london UK. I had just started a new job
which was on the other side of town, a near 2 hour commute by public transport. I had an old friend
who had an appartment on that side, so I gave him a call and asked if I could stay at his place
during the weekdays, until I found somewhere to live closer to work. He said no problem, he even
have a spare room. Now this friend is the kind of guy who has a short fuse to his temper, and was
quite a bit bigger than me. Bear this in mind.

So I stayed there. It turned out he had a nymphomaniac girlfriend, who I was warned about by
other people. I thought I could handle it. From the very start, whenever my mate wasn’t around she
tried to seduce me, typically by sitting next to me on the sofa and stroking my hair, telling me
how nice it was. The only way I could stop this was to sit in a chair, slumped on the arms so she
couldn’t perch on those. She would “flash” me even when he was in the room.

The more I resisted, the harder she came on. I really, really needed to stay on the flat, so giving in to her and upsetting my mate was not an option, however much I would have liked to. She was gorgeous and actually a really nice person – generous, thoughtful, but oversexed, to put it mildly.

It finally came to a head, when I decided to have a bath one day. The bathroom doorlock was faulty and couldn’t be closed, so I waited for a time when my mate was in. I’d been in the bath for a few minutes, when a knock came and I heard her ask if she could come in and wash my back. I said no, not a good idea, but she ignored it and just came in. I asked where boyfriend was, and she said it’s OK, he’d popped out to get some cigarettes. She picked up the soap, and very quickly reached down in front and grabbed my now stiff member (I’m only human), giggled, and said something like “I knew you liked me!”. And that was all, she left.

Why didn’t I fight her off? First, I was in shock, not traumatic you understand, just stunned.
Secondly, boyfriend could be back any minute and how was I going to explain her wet dress to him? I’m pretty sure she would have a version of events ready to excuse herself, where I was the attacker.

I was there for about three weeks, not a single day when she didn’t “assault” me in some way (by today’s definition).

Good, then you know women do have the capability of not taking no for an answer.

Of course Earl. Much like Potiphar’s wife, they have no moral agency. I know this. So do you. Fortunately (for such rare and random events like being molested by Potiphar’s wife), men are much more physically stronger and a woman has no power of force over a man. So you and I have nothing to worry about…

You guys are equating greater physical size and strength with greater power. What if the man is inebriated or made incapable of resisting by drugs? What if she has social and political power behind her as backup? What if she can threaten to accuse him of rape if he does not comply? All of these are times when women have power over men. Joseph and Potifar’s wife is an all too typical case.

I have had more than one woman threaten to cry rape if I did not bend to her will. It was never forcing me to have sex, but force is force and power over another is power over another. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Women in this society are being given absolute power over men. It is the objective of feminism that any man can be chained up and thrown in jail on the unsupported say so of any woman.

This is clearly satire. I had to read it a few times, because my first instinct was to believe that nobody could be that beta by whining and peeing about being victimized in such an encounter, but Dalrock is correct – it is too carefully crafted an intentionally absurd to be anything but. Reads almost as though an identical story was uncovered as a boilerplate and 2-minutes work was invested to reverse the roles with a simple substitution of “him” for “her”. It pretty much reads like the campy scripts for those ridiculous HR videos on sexual harassment and sensitivity training. But don’t get me started on that…

You could watch the HR videos – or then again you could just read Michael Crichton’s Disclosure for something more entertaining and closer to reality (or watch the movie version starring Demi Moore and Michael Douglas).