13:30 - Radials arrived. Everything appears to be in good condition despite a 6"x4" gash on the side of one of the boxes. The Radial inside box 1 is fine. Didn't have time to get into box 2 before having to leave for work.

Talk about well packed!! :) The Radials were held securely in place in a plywood frame with wooden panels to and bottom to protect them. Took about 45mins to unscrew the frame to get to the Radial inside. Broke the tip of my screwdriver!! frustration! Just bought another screwdriver and will un do the other speaker when I get home tonight..

Ditto on the call in sick idea, of all the times to not take a sick day :-/ lol. Well so far the review sounds good, they are packed so well you broke the tip of your screwdriver trying to unpack them ( and that really is a good thing ).. Hope the other one is ok and congrats on their arrival. Dave

I am posting for the first time. Been watching Giorgino's posts and waiting to see if anyone else who recently bought was going to start posting.

Bought a pair of rl-3s direct from Bob Ziegler in Mesa and picked them up two Friday's ago from his house. I live in Tucson two hours away. Sorry Giorgino.

I was able to hear before purchasing so I knew what I was buying. However, I waited six long weeks from hearing them for them to be made and I can say it was worth the wait.

I was missing not having boxes, although I also like not having to store them too, and was thinking about calling Decware to send me boxes in case of a possible move and well I guess I paid for them since I got no discount. However, after just reading Georgino's post as to the one crate, sounds like they would not be re-usable anyway. Let us know if they are. I look forward to your first impressions of the speaker.

The speaker crates for the RL3's can be re-used - they are designed that way. And they are simple to unpack - just turn the crate up-side down - remove all of the screws on bottom and sides; turn the crate over and just lift up - the crate will easily come off.

Got home at midnight and started going for the box. Spoke to Bob (Ziggy) and established that stupid me had got the wrong headed screw driver. :o (Shows how much home repairs I do. Just don't let me work on your house...). The irony is that I showed the screw to the hardware shop assitant and she gave me the screwdriver!! Anyway, decided that enough was enough and proceeded to use a saw on the external protection frame. Sorted in about 5 minutes. Easy peesy lemon squeezy...

The RL3s arrived in perfect condition despite the gouge on the cardboard packing. Workmanship is excellent. Top notch! My buddy visited today and confirmed this. He was surprised to hear that that Bob made everything and it wasn't factory machined...

They sound big. There is an air of authority about the RL3s. The soundstage is big and deep. They have a laid back lets you relax into to music. At first I thought that they sounded slightly recessed but on reflection, and like my Ack dAck, they pull and spread the soundtage depth further back whilst holding the frontstage where it is.

Piano and bass sound very full and and fleshed out. I was expecting the precision to be compromised with a multiway driver but this hasn't been massively noticable. The treble is lovely and smooth - again, unexpected with a tweeter. It sounds very "grown up" . The sensation is the difference between being in a small nippy car and then driving in an executive car. There is a sense of solidity and control.

FIRST IMPRESSION - NEGATIVE

There is some very deep bass going on but it sounds a little strange. Every now and again a deep bass note comes out of nowhere that I'm sure instrument that was part of. It sounds slight diembodied and unruly. Almost like a subwoofer with the volume turned up. My buddy confirmed this when he visited me today. Whilst my interpretation was that the RL3 over emphasied the sub bass (below 80hz), he was of the opinion that the sub bass was fine but there was no bridge between that and the mid/upper bass (ie a dip between 80 - 120hz?)

These are early days yet and it may be due to placement and setup issues. Will keep you posted in due course...

INTERESTING POINTS

IMHO, I think that my 17'x11'x8' (L,W,H) should be considered to be the minimum size for the RL3 to work effectively for the following reasons:1) The need space to breath (minimum 2' away from walls)2) Sitting nearfield gives a strange sensation of the sounds being separated. I am sitting about 10' from them now but I suspect I would benefit from being another 5 - 10' further back.3) Sufficient space for the bass notes to work in. (I think I'll need need some room bass treatment)

In my 3 years experience with the Horns, I've set them up to a sound that I really enjoy. My guess is that I'll be spending the next few months optimising my setup for the RL3s.

An example is with the CSP preamp. The Horns/F1/ack dAck/CSP combinations sounds a little strident. Replacing the CSP with a passive NOS carbon pot preamp made the system really mysical and relaxed. This combo with the RL3 just sounded too recessed. Putting back the CSP brought out the sparkle and life in the system. It gave the system a little PRAT into the system without the edginess I got previously. Who knew...? ;)

Yes, I really think it took about a month of listening. . . and maybe even more for my tweeter as I have had it way way scaled down. . . that's how I survive the near-field in a room around the same measurements as yours. . . .

Once the speakers settled down and I got the tweeter scaled down I felt a really cohesive sound and a very very realistic image and tonality. I agree that it would be even better with a larger room. . . but. . . it's impossible. At least for the next five years or so!

I was the 2nd person to purchase the original RL3's; absolutely thought they were as perfect for my tastes as you could get. But Bob told me about the changes he made - for the better - and I had him convert my "old" radials into the updated model. Well, I have to say that the "new" model trumps the original by a mile! Deeper, taller soundstage - with imaging that makes you think there are no speakers in front of you! According to Bob, the mid-bass is much better - and I can confirm this.

You will notice that the speakers take a long time to break in - I think it took mine around 200-300 hours to be as cohesive as intented. And there is no comparison between the old tweeter setting and the new; the new tweeter is much more integrated - to the point you really can't pinpoint the tweeter on most music.

For your information, I vaguely remember talking to Bob about putting 18" carpet beneath the Radials. Well, I folded up some towels and placed the Radials on them last night. Wham! The bass just cleaned up. None of the misbehaving, disembodied subbass notes I was talking about. Must have been bouncing the notes off my tile floor.

Thanks for your enthusiastic encouragement for info. :)I think it'll take me some time to dial in the Radials properly, not because the need breaking in but because they sound totally different to the Horns. My system had been balanced to work with the Horns and, therefore, will need some experimentation to get system synergy again.

This weekend will be a good time to test equipment properly. For example, I had a DAC (Musical Fidelity TriVista 21) that didn't work well with the Horns which I'd like to try with the RL3s. Another is to experiment with my HGA silver wires. I can afford to test out equipment and wires that I put away because they sounded bright with Ed's Horns but now may work fine with the RL3's.

Placement is still an approximation and I'm looking forward to dialing the Radials in but as an update, I'd like to share the following:

I've always had a problem with classical music reproduction. Whether with Magneplanars, or Select or other amps, I've not managed to get satisfactory results with regard to power level or soundstaging depth. This is not neccessarily to do with Ed's Horns or any one particular product but my equipment in general. I've always felt slightly frustrated.THe RL3s with the F1 just kicks out a great soundstage with sufficient punch to not feel cheated.

Very nice indeed. Feels like I'm in the performance hall. This is accentualted at night - the obvious result of cleaner mains power and background noise levels. I'll be in a position to provide clearer feedback on Sunday when I've got a little spare time so please bare with me.

Yeah - I had heard from several people that the Horns and Radials were like chalk and cheese with regard to sonic characteristics. I have to say that there are some things I prefer on the Horns:

I really like the the very light qualities the Horns are capable of presenting. This may be due to the relative bass lightness of them, but they sound faster. Sounds like plucked guitar strings and especially fast paced cymbals just sound so quick.

I think the F1 works really well with the RL3s, however, if I were to buy another amp, 10 watts would be a minimum power level. I just keep finding myself turning up the volume dial. The Horns never did that. I know, that's because the Horns are forward firing. I'm just surprised you've managed to get a happy sound from you monoblocs. With my F1's 10 watts it it just about gets away with it on orchestral work.

One. . . I think you'll find that with time the Radials will handle that lightness well or you will realize how they are handling it and it will seem right.

Two. . . I don't have the luxury of even a room as big as yours, and I have set up the Radials and "tuned" them for a more near field set up. You CAN make this cohesive if you work at it (and my RL2s MAY be more flexible than the RL3s because I think I have resistor flexibility on the lower speakers that the 3s may not, and I can angle the tweeter, also I use brass spikes on the speakers which have really helped me out). . . . Honestly I can get all the loudness I'll ever need in that room with the Monoblocks, and if memory serves even in my living room dining room, and if not I could hook them up to the B&O receiver out there (which sounds pretty damned fine with the Radials the two times I've had them connected).

That's amazing. My room is 17 x 11 leading to another area 10 x 12 just behind the listeners head. This is obviously something to do with the F1 + RL3 combo. The bass notes from a classical orchestral CD just "growls" on my legs and the settee.

Had my first real forget about the stereo experience with the rl-3's yesterday which tells me they must be breakin in and that I am really liking these speakers.

I too have room issues which are hard to ignore when listening. Room is rectangular (15x30x8) with the speakers on the long wall. One speaker is in a corner and the other actually opens to a dining room and then a wide hallway. A love seat between the speakers only makes matters worse by creating another boundry for the speaker in the corner to deal with. As a result the speaker in the corner ends up kind of being hornloaded. I feel the need for a balance control sometimes. Some day the love seat in the middle will disappear which will allow me to get the speaker more out of the corner.

Bass has settled down some with moments of almost missing upper bass less frequent. Big room filling sound with great detail compared to my old speakers. Soundstage is huge and speakers tend to disappear with a good recording. Listened to a new cd by a lady named Mary Gauthier that was just an awsome listening experience. Highly recommended at least based on just the one listen.

Update: I just took out the F1 put my Select into the system. Very surprising. I was expecting the Select NOT to be able to drive the RL3s. Well, although I'm playing this late at night and at relatively low levels, I'm not missing anything. Very strange indeed - must be the tube watts... ???

I'll test out the volume levels tomorrow during the day just to confirm but I may have take back what I said about needing a minimum of 10 watts to drive the RL3s.

It's 11:30 AM and I've played some of my tougher amp-clipping classical pieces and the Select just about passes. Surprising, as previously with the Horns, the Select would have clipped. With the RL3, the sound's got body, weight, adequate SPL and bass. Not sure why by I may throw in this idea:

1) The bass and body generated by the RL3s means that I don't have to turn up the Select to clipping levels to get a "whole sound"

2) The RL3's may be a benign load on the Select.

Certainly the volume levels I have right now, I can live with. It's no party sound system but that's not what Im looking for. Eminently workable.

Yes, sometimes I think I should have stayed with the Select but then again I do really like the EL34 tube.

George is right: the Radial chain began with RL1s which I had, and then the RL2 models were introduced and I exchanged my RL1s for RL2s; finally these were both discontinued (to my sort of dismay) and RL1.5s and RL3s replaced them. Imagine how you'll feel when the RL4s and RL5s come out. . . ???

Just put the F1 back - Yep, there's some good synergy going there with the CSP/F1/RL3 combo. Not that the Select sound bad; it sounds great but the F1 just grip and moves the drivers like they got no weight. The sensation of starting and stopping instantly.

Quick question. I have bi-wire speaker wire, banana plugs. As such I have been creative in hooking up the speakers by using both the bare wire holes and the banana holes. Probably not the best long term solution.

Wondering if I can hook up one set of the bi-wire straight to the binding posts for the resistor and for that matter the other set to the posts with the capacitor?

Match - I have Waters' "Amused to Death". I use it to test the Special FX capability of my speaks'.

Well, it's good but not great. I may have a lot setting up to do yet in terms of speaker placement. It's as good as the Horns but not better. On track 1 the "old boy's" voice talking about WWI and the dogs barking are a little distant. - not in a good way as it didn't help create the illusion of space.

The RL3 certainly did alot better with "Amused" than the omnidirectional speakers I auditioned. THe Duevels just lost the old boys voice placement. The RL3 haven't reached anywhere near the lowther based horn speaker I heard with regard to the Waters' album where the dogs were barking from the corner of the room behind my right ear and the old boy was talking 6' to my left.

Of course my opinions in this post are purely on the "Amused to Death" album's ability to create a special effect not as a general observation of the RL3s.

[quote author=Giorgino link=1125423840/30#43 date=1126093240]Match - I have Waters' "Amused to Death". I use it to test the Special FX capability of my speaks'.

Well, it's good but not great. I may have a lot setting up to do yet in terms of speaker placement. It's as good as the Horns but not better. On track 1 the "old boy's" voice talking about WWI and the dogs barking are a little distant. - not in a good way as it didn't help create the illusion of space.

The RL3 certainly did alot better with "Amused" than the omnidirectional speakers I auditioned. THe Duevels just lost the old boys voice placement. The RL3 haven't reached anywhere near the lowther based horn speaker I heard with regard to the Waters' album where the dogs were barking from the corner of the room behind my right ear and the old boy was talking 6' to my left.

Of course my opinions in this post are purely on the "Amused to Death" album's ability to create a special effect not as a general observation of the RL3s. [/quote]

AMUSED sounds like magic on my Silverlines. It is frightening how that CD comes across. I have been wanting a set of Radials for some time, but if they can't pull of the spacing that AMUSED is capabable of producing, I may have to re-think my future. I also have the horns in mind. The trouble with the horns, in my mind, is their inability to hit 35hz-40hz without the aid of a corner. If they could hit 35hz-40hz three feet in from the wall, my future would be set.

I will say that the Radials reproduce NATURAL spactial features accurately, more accurately than any other speakers I've heard. They reproduce the sound within my old garage apartment on my old bands' recordings extremely well.

The Waters and other Q sourced sounds are artificially created with different phase parameters etc. I think; these are probably created to work with conventional two speaker directional speakers and it would not be surprising to me that these aren't reproduced exactly the same way with the Radial design.

There area many areas of my system I will need getting used to. I think everyone has to take my initial impressions with a tablesspoon (as opposed to a pinch) of salt. The impressions I make are afterall - "initial". ???

However, on the face of it, the RL3s do an excellent job with other non-Q-sound CDs and have particular strengths in imaging and authority.

My experience with both omnidirectional technology speakers, is that they seem to cancel out, to a greater or lesser extent, the effects of the Q-Sound production effects. I'm not sure what the proportion of CD's out there are Q-Sounded but I suspect they are a small minority. I would not think it prudent to base my speaker purchase strategy on whether it works well of a specific effect especially when the particular speaker in mind has many other strengths.