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New Stand Mixer Purchase Question

February 9, 2008 - 5:29pm

srfrench

New Stand Mixer Purchase Question

Hi! I'm a relative newbie in the breadmaking arena and am ready to purchase a new stand mixer as I have managed to destroy two other mixers that I was led to believe were top of the line models. I was considering a Viking 7-quart stand mixer (1000 watt motor with metal gear transmission). I would appreciate any positive or negative feedback on this choice option. Thanks in advance as I look forward to hearing from more experienced bakers!

I currently own the 5 qt. Viking and have been very happy with it. Its got a smaller motor (800 watt versus 1000 watt) than the one you're considering, but that's not been an issue for me. I've used it to mix bagel dough using KA high-gluten flour and it hasn't been fazed by that in the slightest. I've had mine for a little over a year now and have had no regrets about purchasing it.

I've been using a kitchen-aid stand mixer for years now, It's one notch below the professional model. I believe 475 watts, 6 qt bowl, if memory serves me well. I usually make two or three loaves at a time and have never had any problems. I would think it would be a lot more economical! Good luck with whatever brand you decide on!

I bake one or two loaves at a time (full-size equivalent) or use it for miscellaneous baking tasks like cookies. My KitchenAid Classic does me fine. But I read the manual and make sure I'm not doing more than the machine can handle. For example, I don't use more flour than is recommended, and I don't knead at a higher speed than recommended. I can only suspect that ruined machines result from unheeded manuals. You should be able to read the manual online before you buy and see if the machine can handle your needs.

The Viking 7 Qt is somewhat pricey for a mixer especially if your are just starting out.

Of course I don't know how much baking your are planning on doing. The reviews on Amazon are not glowing either. I have never used the Viking myself.

I know that several professional baking book authors are using the Kitchen Aid K 5 or K 6 series. The heavy duty model, not the weaker *Artisan* model usually on display in the cookware depts of retail stores.

I hope others post with their experience and that may help you decide.

No matter which stand mixer you finally choose, do take the time to study its manual and understand the operating limits of the machine.

I have one of the "weaker" KA Artisan mixers and am quite happy with it. It can handle up to 12 cups of flour, which exceeds my baking needs for my small household.

I purchased the KA online and paid $160 less than local retailer pricing (shipping was free). Do online research into the various brands and read the owner reviews before you make any final decision. Good luck in your quest.

I haver a 5 qt. Kitchen Aid that's 20 years old, which I use frequently (3-4 times a week) and it still works great. It was made by Kitchen Aid Div. of Hobart in Troy Ohio. I must tell you they don't build them like this one is built anymore. To compensate for the 5 qt. bowl limitation I have 2 bowls, so I can mix 2 batches of dough in the same baking session. Let me say that I know nothing about the Viking mixers so can't comment on them. Don't know how committed you are to baking or how much money you have to invest in a mixer, but if I were going to replace my K.A., in additon to the Viking, I would seriously look at both the Bosch Universal Plus and the Electrolux DLX. Check the SEARCH funtion on this site for both the Universal Plus and the DLX, there's a number of postings on both these mixers and perhaps the Viking too, I didn't SEARCH Viking. I'm probably going to get booed for saying this, but I wouldn't buy one of the low-end K.A. mixers. If you are serious and committed to bread baking you're going to want a machine that has excess power and capacity and will last you for many years to come. The U. Plus and the DLX are more expensive and more powerful than the newer low-end K.A.s and from what I have read, the users, for the most part, seem to really like these machines. If memory serves me correctly, the DLX has a slightly larger capacity. Anyway, my suggestion is to go online and look at the specs for all the machines you're interested in and read some of the user comments from this site. I don't think you'll find a better group of bakers and/or honest "mixer critics" than here on this site. Good luck with your mixer evaluation.

I've been baking breads most of my adult life and I've always had the "weaker" KA mixer. However, for the type of breads I was making, that was all I needed. It lasted for years and years and I've loved it. I finally traded up and got the KA 600 Pro mixer and frankly, I think I've outgrown it. I love KA's for any other types of mixing and if you're just a couple of family loaf a week type baker, I think you'd probably do well with the Pro Model. However, if you try making anything like bagels or baguettes, you're pushing the envelope of the KA. Mine has overheated a few times and I am worried that I can push it too far one day.

Seriously considering the Electrolux and given all the reviews, I think it would be a good buy. I know the Bosch has some benefits too, but I really want a machine just for breads. I have my KA for batters, cookies or anything else I need or want.

I own a KA Heavy duty, and am happy with it. BUT to be honest, just for kneading there are much better machines out there. It is not that I don't like it, but it is the multi function that this machine makes outstanding, making cookie dough with the flat beater or whipping cream is just a blast. Making dough however works fine too, but when you make stiff doughs the speed might not be constant. At least that is my experience. Also last time when I made a batch of two loaves and some rolls, I did not exceed the maximum flour capacity but the motor started smelling like burned. I stopped the KA and kneaded with my hands.I love my KA but if I needed a machine to only knead bread dough I would get something else. Hope this helps.Bart ilovebreadblog

I have the 7 quart Viking and it is wonderful. I had a KA 525W Mixer, and nearly killed it trying to knead ciabatta for 13 to 15 minutes at speed 8. It was really screaming and making an awful noise. Since I bake a few loaves every week for a local restaurant I really need a mixer. I am most pleased with this new mixer. It has heavy duty stainless dough hook and other attachments. It does not even get warm with heavy kneading. I got a new red one. Very pretty.

Thanks for the info. on Viking and congrats on you new red machine. Sounds like a great mixer. As I said, my K.A. was made by Hobart 20 yrs. ago. Don't know if it true or not but I've heard the new ones, at the low end of K.A.'s line, have plastic gears and that's a real problem under heavy load (stiff or large amounts of dough). Anyway, I'll look at serously at Viking when the time comes to replace my K.A. Thanks again.

I have a DeLonghi 5 quart, which I think is more or less the same machine as the Viking. It handles stiff, whole grain doughs just fine. Capacity wise, it makes 3 good sized pan loaves. There are times I wished Ihad the 7 quart, just for the larger capacity, which is kind of silly in a 2 person household!

I can't comment on the Viking product but I can wave you off of the newer KA product(s). Case in point: After 13 months of once a week usage on a KitchenAid KP26M1XNP Professional 600 Series 6-Quart, never using more than 6 cups of flour and not kneading above 4 or 5. The worm follower looked like this

Yikes! no wonder my old mixer was screaming. I never kneaded with my KA above a 2 until I got Local Breads for Christmas. He recommended spead 8 for 13 minutes. I must have had one of the newer models with the plastic gears. Still love my Viking.

Sorry about your problem. My first observation is... that photo does not look bueno. Is that gear metal or plastic? In fact that worm follower gear looks a lot like there may be a Chinese connection there. I still have a Hobart manufactured K.A. that was made 20 years ago in Troy, Ohio and it runs great, even on high speed. It does heat up after 10 or so minutes of kneading a large batch of dough but that's normal. The gear stripping is not nornal. Too bad about K.A. When Hobart owned the company they made great products here in the U.S. As the old saying goes; "When will they ever learn?" Probably never, or not as long as they keep chasing the bottom line at the expense of quality. It's verging on a national epidemic. I'm thinking---portable concrete mixer for large batches of bagel dough (smile).

This post was made a while back, but if anyone is reading through them - a correction. The 20 qt mixers (in the US) are almost always 110 Volts single phase.

Also, a used 20 qt is almost always better and more durable than the home-style 5 or 6 qt units. Assuming that you have the space for one and willing to have an ugly machine in your kitchen. A used 20 qt can often be found for around $500, if it's not a Hobart or a similarly well known brand (I sold my floor standing A200 for $575, and have seen very old but running units for $300-$400, but they are ugly!).

But, I'm not going to use a 20 quart for my usual production from my home kitchen. Why would I have a 20 quart stand mixer taking up space in my kitchen when I don't really have that much dough at any given time? I have a KA and a Magic Mill DLX, which both work great for the demands of my needs - which are actually used almost daily.

I guess my issue is that if the mixer is too big for my needs, it's not really "better". I can't speak to the durability issue of the DLX since I've only had it for 6 months, but so far its impressive and it has a great reputation for being a dough work horse and lasting many, many years.

You're right - as soon as I posted my comment I realized that "better" is a relative term. I was really refering to reliability and the power of the mixer. The 20 qt is about the smallest commercial mixer (yes, there are a few 10 or 12 qt commercial units, but they're relatively hard to find on the used market). For batches of 2 or 3 breads, the 5 - 7 qt home units are generally fine.

that you can make a batch of even three regular sized breads in a 7-quart mixer, not to mention a 5-quart home unit. The dough will "crawl" up the kneading hook into the engine chamber.

And if your bread has whole grains, your little engine will be just overwhelmed with the heavy duty kneading.

When I started my little bakery, I tried mixing dough for more than 2 breads in my 7-quart Cuisinart - it's simply not doable. I had to process my batches in portions, until I finally bought a 20-quart Hobart in a store for used restaurant equipment.

Although some are using small commercial mixers, most light duty users seem to be satisfied with the home counter-top units. We started with a used 20 qt Hobart and quickly outgrew it. Replaced it with a used 30 qt Anvil and then added a used 40 qt Thunderbird. BTW, the Anvil had to be rebuilt twice within 3 yrs, with the total repair costs of about $1,500. Recently added a new 50 qt Chinese mixer that had 3 breakdowns within as many months. It cost very little to repair since we did the repairs ourselves (a starter capacitor blown twice, until replaced with a larger one, and a broken bolt that jammed the lifting mechanism). The result of having less than reliable units is that we have to keep a spare around. However, all three cost us less than one large Hobart would have been. Another item to mention - the 50 qt mixer has a less efficient hook than the Thunderbird and the Anvil and requires more time. That may be something to look into when comparing the KA and other brands as well.

I know this is an old thread. You mention a Thunderbird 40 quart mixer. Back around 2003, Berkel was putting its name on the Thunderbird ARM-01, and calling it a "PM-10". In light of commercial machines, mine was made in China and had a few imperfections. No fine finish like the Hobart, and I thought it looked a little cheap. It's a 60 pound light weight, as compared to the Hobart Legacy 12, which weighs at least three times as much with a fit and finish that was near flawless. And a price tag that's 4 times higher. Well, I had a friend give me some financial advice, and he adamantly recommended against the Legacy 12 and the Hobart N-50.

So I took the cheap Chinese knockoff of a commercial mixer home. The gear shift felt a little sticky. I plugged it in. The machine just ran like a song. I ran it through the gears, yup, a little sticky and the detentes seemed a little funky. Beater kept touching the bottom of the bowl... Ran bread through it. Made pizza dough. Shoved a KitchenAid pasta attachment to its nose and ran fettuccine in it for an hour it seems. It took a while for it to get warm, but again no complaints. Made double batches of stiff cookie dough. Ran an Alton Brown pizza dough recipe through it, on speed 2 (it's a 3-speed like a Hobart) for a half hour. That would be like running a KitchenAid on Speed 5 for the same duration, probably voiding the warranty. After 6 months of use, the gear shift lever falls perfectly into its three positions. So that was probably just a break-in issue.

Eventually, the flat beater touching the bottom of the bowl since the time it was new, bothered me a bit. Turns out it just needed the screw tightened on the orbital gear pan. Viola! Perfect adjustment. It's been 12 years since I solved that problem, and it never came back. To this very day, the old mixer keeps chugging along. I just made some more pizza dough, enough to last me a few days, not too long ago. You know, it's funny. I can beat a single egg white with this old Thunderbird from Shenzen China, while my Sunbeam Mixmaster can't even reach it with its two beaters! Nothing sticks on my cast-aluminum flat beater (I never wash it in the dishwasher), and I've never had bread dough climb the cast aluminum spiral dough hook. The Thunderbird's wire whisk is huge, has coverage for the whole bowl, and can turn a whipped topping into a hard churned butter if you're not paying attention!

I guess all I can say is this: An Anvil, Thunderbird, Globe, or other off-brand commercial mixer may be a little surprising to someone who is used to a KitchenAid. I know mine can do a lot more than I thought it could. I want a Hobart N-50, but my old Thunderbird just won't die, and it will do anything I ask of it without a hiccup.

I imagine that depends on the mixer. I haven't tried it, but I'd be very much surprised if my DLX couldn't knead 10# of bagel dough with ease.

The DLX seems to be a bit more efficient than a planetary mixer such as the KA. txfarmer describes her soft white sandwich loaf, which requires a very intensive mix as needing 12-15 minutes at speed 3 on her KA6pro (I think that's what it is), where the DLX needs only 10 minutes at a medium speed, i.e. about 80 rpms, with the roller and flipper.

Credit should to the DLX's mechanism; the bowl rotates while the roller and flipper act passively.

Although I don't bake in a commercial status, I have a mixer going almost every day at my house. The DLX really does a great job of it. I thought I had outgrown my KA Pro, but I haven't. It's perfect for small breads like the Japanese Milk or Custard breads and it's great for an everyday mixer.

In the DLX, the roller moves in accordance with the dough.. so if the dough is moving so is the roller. I love that about the DLX.

Gary, do you ever use the dough hook? I was watching the Electrolux video online and somewhere there it recommends the dough hook for smaller batches and the roller for bigger batches of dough. Watching the video makes me feel a ton better because when using the dough hook, I'm never sure it's kneading. It takes a bit of getting used to getting out of that KitchenAid mentality with a planetary mix.

Nope. My impression, from somewhere, is that the dough hook is for larger batches, e.g. >5.5lbs/2.5kg. My batches are in the 1.5-4lb/.75-2kg range. I keep telling myself to try the hook. I know the roller, so chicken out and stay with the tried and true. One day, though. ;)

Preachin' to the choir:

I am fascinated by the roller/flipper action. It is effective at all speeds, though lower speeds often work as well as higher speeds and are quieter.

All criticisms I've seen are related to someone's not trusting the machine or not reading the manual.

Dough climbing the roller? Roller too close to the bowl's rim.

Arm slamming back and forth causing the machine to walk? Arm not set properly, speed too high.

Butter sticks to the roller when creaming with sugar? Set the roller against the bowl's rim and run on high speed. The butter will come off. Trust me.

The gears also gave out on my KitchenAid KP26M1XNP Professional 600 Series 6-Quart - also after about 13 months of use, once a week. The repair was expensive. Next time it gives out I think I'll go for the DLX. The apparently different kneading mechanism/motion may make the drive mechanism less susceptible to failure.

I'm new to this bread-making stuff, but I recently purchased a Bosch Compact Kitchen Machine off Ebay for under $100 and the thing is amazing. It's the small 4 qt one, but there's a 700 watt one in the $250 range that would probably accomodate your needs. The motor is extremely powerful and I use it mainly for whole wheat or rye doughs. It's a lot simpler than KA--just 4 speeds. But it's small and not so noisy and also has attachments for a blender and slicer. Pretty unique piece of equipment.

I have been looking into purchasing a my first new mixer. I researched the Kitchen Aid and the Professional 600 Series. I like the that it does more then bread and can get all the great attachment, so I can do more then bread. They are still made in Ohio from what the website says. Plus it is still all metal gears.

Hi Willow. I wish I had been as bright as you for asking for advice. Instead I bought a Brand New kitchenaid 5 qt. HD pro mixer that failed after 30 uses. Not because I overloaded it, but because Kitchenaid had installed a cheap plastic transmission housing over their "all metal" transmission. This cheap plastic part carries the mechanical stresses from from the two most important gears and shafts in the mixer and have absolutely no business being in a "Top Dollar" machine. They are still installing the plastic ones at the factory!

Kitchenaid's replacement part is made of molded metal, as my mixer should have had installed in it at the factory. Kitchenaid makes no apologies for their actions, and continues their ugly practices.

When Hobart sold the Kitchenaid brand to Whirlpool Corp. the product became a mere shadow of what it once was, and is now a cash cow for Whirlpool. Your cash is the only thing they're after. You will have to wait at least a month for parts to arrive from Kitchenaid should you have to order from them. If you never intend to make bread and/or cookie dough then a kitchenaid may be for you. If you need a machine that's strong and can handle heavy doughs, then buy a used Hobart mixer (I now own two) My 20 qt. A200 Hobart was built in 1958, I replaced the seals, bearings and put new grease in it and it works exactly like I need it to. My N50 5qt. Hobart runs like a charm and neither machine screams like a Kitchenaid... They just hummmm.

If you're not up to refurbing a mixer, The Electrolux DLX has been getting rave reviews. You might also take a look at consumersaffairs.com and perform a search for reviews pro/and com on the mixers that you're interested in. I found the website to be informative and shocking all at the same time!

Most important of all is; Good luck! You're gonna need it. Ricardok45.

I have a five-quart Artisan KA that was a gift from my daughter. For many years I dreamed of owning a KA and frequently would make the comment, "One of these days I'm going to have one of those"....well, now I do, and I am very thankful to my daughter for my gift, but I must share this secret:

I'm very, very disappointed in the lack of product integrity. The way the bowl attaches to the mixer, screwing into the base, was a shortcut to something else, but what? I haven't a clue, but it certainly needs some rethinking. Also, that bowl is less than stellar, for the cost of this machine one would expect something more heavy duty and at least precisioned.

The motor....are all of them so noisy?

The attachment mechanism, where one changes out the whisk to the dough hook, etc., who thought that up? No matter how careful one is, there is ALWAYS a concern that flour, or any other fine dust can interfer with this mechanism. I wipe it and the thread each time I use it, and I always find that I am removing debris along with a bit of black grease. How, or when do I need a lube job on this prize?

Okay, I said this was my two cents, I could add another forty-five (to a couple bucks worth), but I think it is quite obvious that I find this item OVERPRICED and UNDERPERFORMING. (While visiting my daughter, I used her 'hand-me-down' from her MIL, that KA is at least 20 years old, the quality of that machine is far SUPERIOR to the one that I received as a gift. No, I didn't have the heart nor the INTENTION of letting on that this older model is MUCH NICER than my new one. I'm not heartless, clueless or meanspirited, but I will share my honest opinion with those of you considering this item).

Please forgive my rant, remember my words as MY personal opinion. Don't forward this on to my daughter and do yourselves a favor: Weigh your decision by more than one opinion, but do inform yourselves going forward. If I was offered all of Bill Gates money for my KA it would NOT be enough. My KA is priceless by the mere fact that my loving daughter gave it to me. I clean and shine it after each use and I am careful to follow the PRINTED instructions that came with it. My greatest hope is that I can proudly admit, "My KA is still performing, is your's, honey?"

I have both the professional model, and one of those Artesian models that my husband bought me as a gift,(beacuse it was pretty ((eyes rolling)) ). I have the same trouble with both of them, where the paddles attach gets so worn out, that you can't get the dang attachments on and off. I have ordered new paddles from the company but I am still unsatisfied. For the money the pro model is WAY better, but I'm still not happy. I use a mixer a lot and I want it to work when I get ready, not be just something I wipe off when I clean the counters.

Having owned a K.A. that was made back when Hobart owned the company, some 20 years ago, I have had a good experience. But from everything I've heard and read about K.A. mixers, they are mostly living off their OLD name and reputation. When I buy a new mixer it will be a Bosch or a DLX. There are just far too many horror stories out there about the "new" Kitchen Aid machines. Be careful with your selection, you're going to have to live with it a long time. Good luck with your selection process.

I bought a KitchenAid K45Ss many, many moons ago. It was made by Hobart. And it's going strong. However, I outgrew it.

A friend has a KA she bought recently, and it sounds like it's ready to fall apart. It started out that way. It scares me. Remember, a 4.5 quart KA costs about the same today as it did 20+ years ago. And since then inflation and strange government policies have turned the dollar into nothing. They had to cheapen the product to hold the price line.

If I had lots of KA accessories, I'd consider that as part of my purchase decision. Do I want another KA so I can keep using my accessories? (Do I use the accessories often enough for this to be a valid question? What would replacement accessories for a new brand of mixer cost, if I can get them, and what can I sell my old accessories for on eBay would be associated questions.)

If the main use for the mixer is mixing bread dough, I'd suggest the DLX. It handles much larger batches with aplomb. It develops dough very gently. It's easy to clean. And it handles everything from bagels to ciabatta without having to play with the recipes to keep the dough from climbing the hook.

I'm very happy with my DLX. However, I still have my KA45SS which I use to grind grain, make cakes, make pasta and much more.

I'm headed down the same road you've traveled. I'm ready to buy a DLX. My K.A. still runs great but it's a 5 qt. and since I have all the K.A. accessories; including 2 bowls, food mill, meat grinder, etc. I'll keep my K.A. for special purpose items; cakes, meringue, milling vegetables for soups, grinding and stuffing sausage, etc. Thanks for your input on DLX.

While I'm quite happy with my KA mixer, I'd love to see a DLX in action. Given the price is over $500, this is something I would never buy sight unseen. Are these carried by any stores? Or are they available only by mail?

Really appreciate you posting that DLX video. The video is really comprehensive, showing all the DLX features and attachments It's GREAT! I've been thinking and thinking about buying a DLX to replace my K.A. This video did it. I'm going to take the plunge, so to speak and buy one. Norm, you need to have a serious talk with those folks at Everything Kitchens re; you getting a sales commission :-).

Norm I looked all over for a video and couldn't find one before I bought my DLX. Thanks for that link. I've never been a big fan of multi function devices, thinking that they don't perform as well as a single device intended strictly for that purpose. In my opinion the DLX is a great machine for my bread making needs at home. I was a little sceptical that there was much difference in the way the hook or roller in the case of the DLX develops the gluten. That turns out to be totally wrong thinking. The dlx is much more effective at creating a dough that will windowpane and more quickly. That translates to better tasting and less oxygenated dough with a creamier dough color. I still have my old KA from the old days (20+ years) but I haven't used it since the DLX arrived.

If you are planning on buying from Pleasant Hill Grain Co., they carry both the DLX and Bosch mixers. I ended up getting the Bosch from them on the advice of the sales person. I'm very happy with it, but I've never personally used the DLX device.

If you ask them for a comparison, I'd be really interested in what they tell you.

David,I made that purchase 2 Months ago. Honestly I didn't get a lot of info on the Bosch and maybe I should have. I am happy with the DLX however. It's very effective.

My dream machine would be that oblique model that Bart linked to. I have seen that style at work in Pro shops and it really works well also plus it's 11 quarts. Mike said it first, (my wife will have me committed):>))

Ah, well. I'm glad you are happy with the DLX. I would love to see a side-by-side comparison with the Bosch. They are both fine machines, from all I can gather, but there are surely differences that might be interesting.

As far as I can gather, you are already pretty well "committed," at least to baking great bread. :-)

I bought a KitchenAid K45SS in the late 1970's and it's still going strong. Because of the number of attachments I have for it, i won't be getting rid of it any time soon, even if its bread capacity is a bit small for me. If it is used within its load limits, it is a very nice machine. I only regret I hadn't spent the extra 50 bucks to get the 5 quart machine instead of the 4 1/2 quart machine I have.

Which is what prompted me to buy a Bosch Universal. We needed a mixer larger than the Kitchenaid and smaller than the Hobart 30 quart at the bakery. I bought it from a German friend who told me, after she sold it to me, that she hated it. She felt like she was being disloyal to the fatherland by not liking it.

I used it and didn't care for it. My staff used it and were vocal in their complaints. "PLEASE get rid of it" was the nicest thing anyone said. A major weakness is that the whip beaters are very fragile. Don't think about beating butter that isn't completely soft with their beater. With the KitchenAid, I routinely beat frozen butter uding the flat beater (someone wants a cake RIGHT now and all the butter is in the freezer) with no problem. We were uncomfortable with the way the plastic bowl on the Bosch flexed and creaked when we made bread in the mixer, so we bought a stainless steel bowl for it. The stainless steel bowl at that time had a bakelite center post. The second time we used it, the center post self destructed because the drive shaft that went up the post hadn't been put in place correctly. While that wasn't entirely the mixer's fault, I still felt it was a bad design. When making bread, I felt that the Bosch mixer overworked and overheated the dough, and I wasn't happy with the results. I know, many people are delighted with the machine. And I am happy for them. I sold mine on eBay, and got more for it than I had paid for it, which was the extent of my enjoyment in the machine.

A few years later, the bakery was closed but I needed a larger mixer. I got an Electrolux DLX Assistent from Gisele at MountainTops Milling (http;//www.mountaintopsmilling.com). She sold it for a good price, and got it to me quickly. It took about a week for me to feel comfortable with the DLX, it was different from any mixer I'd used before. It it is most like a spiral mixer. It develops the dough gently and thoroughly. It makes great dough without overheating it. I haven't done anything other than bread making with it, so I can't comment on the beaters, it's egg beating ability, or whatever. But, for bread, which is what I bought it for, it is excellent.

I have since seen a fair number of snake oil salesmen selling Bosch mixers. They badmouth the competition. One has some videos in which they make fun of a KitchenAid mixer - they are having the KA mix about 1 1/2 times it's rated load, which is not a fair comparison. The salesdroids say that a DLX isn't good for making dough, which is totally incorrect. They say the flexing bowl of the Bosch mixer is a design feature, it's supposed to imitate the kneading action of a human hand, which is completely bogus. Some on-line dealers advertise DLX machines, but don't actiually have them and aren't even authorised dealers. They just want to get people to their web site and to call the dealers so the delaers can do a bait and switch. Why? Even though a Bosch mixer is a good bit cheaper than a DLX, the delaers make more money on the Bosch than the DLX. Not just as a percentage, but in absolute dollars. The margin on the DLX is embarassingly small.

So, if you call a dealer and they tell you all sorts of strange stuff, take it with a grain of salt.

I've been a little critical of the Bosch mixer, but it is worth retalling a fairly recent story - a friend has a DLX and wanted a second mixer. I suggested that a second bowl for her DLX might give her 90% of the benefits of two machines for a fraction of the price, but she wanted another mixer. I had told her about my experiences with a Bosch, but she really wasn't able to buy another DLX. So, she bought a Bosch. She called me the second time she used it and asked if I could sell it on eBay for her, she just couldn't stand the machine. I was able to sell it for a good price, she saved up her nickels and dimes and now has a second DLX. She couldn't believe the differences in the machines.

Again, if you have a Bosch and you like it, I'm happy for you. They make a very reliable machine that should give you years of service. But it's kinda like Fords. As the old saying goes, you either swear by them or at them. I had a Ford Ranger for a while, I swear at them.

Thanks for taking the time to post information and recommendations regarding your experience with various mixers, in particular the information on the DLX vs. Bosch. I have no first hand experience with either the DLX or the Bosch and have only seen the video of the DLX and read comparison reports. However, I understand and agree with your “bait and switch” warning. Unfortunately, I know first hand about “pitch men” who are inclined to chase the commission money rather than selling a prospective customer a product that will fit and satisfy their current and future needs and requirements.

It’s a fact that there are some sales types out there that can only be described as “quick buck artists” who could care less about the customer’s current and future needs and are interested only in “moving the product” that produces the most commission money for themselves. It’s definitely a red flag when a sales type has to resort to bad mouthing the competition and unfairly using “rigged tests” to overcome legitimate questions and objections about an inferior product. Guess that’s the reason for the caveat: “Buyer beware!”

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is…too good to be true. I read your posts with interest. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Incidentally, I have a Ford Ranger and am still kicking myself for not buying the Toyota truck that I really wanted.

I plan on purchasing the DLX in the near future and keep my K.A., which, like yours is 20 years old (made by Hobart in Troy, Ohio) and is an "old, reliable friend". My K.A. has been and still is a very good machine but I almost exclusively bake breads and want more capacity and I really like the extra power, design and funtionality of the DLX.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have the Bosch Universal Plus, which is a new model. It has a more powerful motor. The bowl locks to the base rock solid, which I gather is an improvement, and the drive is now below the bowl. As I've said, I have no personal experience with the DLX.

So far, I've no complaints with the Bosch I have. I've used it only for bread. It certainly has handled heavy doughs (bagels) and higher volume (5-6 lbs of a fairly stiff dough) than my KA Accolade could without problems. I have not experienced the bowl flexing or creaking.

I don't think the wire whisks are recommended for creaming butter. They are, as you say, too fragile. They are designed for whipping egg whites and mixing thin batters. Bosch makes a heavier wire whisk and also a "cookie paddle" which seem more appropriate for creaming butter.

FWIW, the vendor told me they get many fewer returns of Bosch machines than of the DLX machines they sell.

FWIW, the vendor told me they get many fewer returns of Bosch machines than of the DLX machines they sell.

Franlky, I'm not surprised. The DLX is different from any mixer you've probably used or seen. And, I hate to say it, the manual is freakin' awful. They need to write an English manual from the ground up with more recipes instead of having a single manual in 8 languages.

I love to buy "refurbished" merchandise. It's cheaper. And usually it was returned to the store not because it was defective, but because the first customer couldn't figure out how to use it. My friend Gisele at http://www.mountaintopsmilling.com told me about a customer who returned two perfectly working DLX's because the customer couldn't figure out how to use it.

There are several DLX threads here at Freshloaf that bear a strong resemblance to the following...

Poster 1 - I just got a DLX and I hate it! I'll sell it for the first $250 I get!

Poster 2 - Gee, I l love my DLX, what seems to be the problem?

Poster 1 - <tale of woe>

Posters 2, 3 and 4 - Oh, yeah, that happened to me. What you need to do is yadda, yadda, it'll work great! We LOVE our DLX's!

Poster 1 - OK, I'll try it.

A week passes, no posts

Poster 5 - Hey, poster 1, I've always wanted a DLX and I live near you. I can bring you the $250 you wanted. Is the mixer still for sale?

Poster 1 - No, now that I know how to use it, I love it and would only sell it for enough to buy another one.

So..... if someone doesn't have a supportive community like Freshloaf,com or the big mixer group at Yahoo (which should be the medium sized mixer group - large mixers are 120 quarts and up), they might well give up on the DLX.

...appear at times on eBay and generally sell for around $100 (plus shipping).

Since there is always a risk in purchasing used equipment, you should, if you're interested, make sure first that there is an authorized Kitchen Aid service center in your area, should it need repair or adjustment.

My Hobart-made Kitchen Aid 5 quart mixer - model K5A (purchased *used* from a small bakery about 30 years ago) did finally need service several years ago. It cost me $150 at the KA-authorized service center to have it done. The proprietor said if I didn't want to pay for the repair he would buy it - broken! - from me. He said he has a steady demand from local small bakeries and restaurants for these mixers. A testimony to how well Hobart used to make them.

I second that...I just saw two posted for 30 and 50 dollars. I bet you could find one on your local Craig's List w/o having to pay for shipping. I have a Hobart KA from the 70s and it has been an incredibly reliable workhorse.

My advocacy of old Kitchenaid's really doesn't have to do with cost or recycling. There's the quintessence you get from a classic KA mixer which all the bosch's and viking etc just don't to have. (Quintessence def: the highly concentrated essence of the thing). It's too bad that KA has gone the cheap route and diminished their brand with plastic gears--but there's no denying there's a reason so many of use love our old Kitchenaids that has nothing to do with pure performance.

To the OP, I bought the 1000 Watt Viking mixer that you are considering a few months ago. I'm quite happy with it so far, have not done anything terribly challenging, but it handled 2 loaves of rye without complaining. I too destroyed a Kitchenaid Professional 6-qt 450 watt, but that was due to the grain mill attachment. On the Viking, I particularly like the way the bowl attaches to the base, and I like the design of the dough hook. Unfortunately, I haven't had it long enough to attest to its durability.

Anecdotally, for those who have watched the Food Network over the past several years - if you notice, many of the shows used to have Kitchenaids on the sets, and now they mostly have Vikings. Not sure if that means anything, but interesting to notice.

I've had my Bosch Universal Plus about a year and have no problems. I generally make 3-4 loaves at a time or 10 pizza shells at a time. I always thought I wanted a Kitchen Aid, but I'm glad I did my research before I bought. I bought mine from Pleasant Hill Grain. They were good to buy from and I will use them again.

I have a KA 520-PRO (KV25G8XMC) "Chef's" special. After reading this thread, I got a screwdriver out and started poking into the insides. OK! All metal construction, gears and gear box. No plastic. Even has sintered bronze journals. No signs of ware and tear after many years of use. It's the right size for me (small 1/2 sized convection oven).

I have used Hobart floor stand mixers - both 3 and 4 speed, and have appreciated their quality. The KA has "12 cup flour power" (marketing speak, I presume). More importantly, it doesn't make wierd noises, and doesn't slow down under the loads I impose. I am very glad I checked the machines guts. I am much more comfortable (now) with it. Thanks, guys.

I've had a smaller Kitchen Aid and a Cuisinart mixer. I just blew out the Cuisinart after owning it for a year because I make a lot of stiff bread dough in it. My husband says we can buy one more mixer, but it better be the last one. I am really into making artisan breads and want this mixer to be "the one." I'm fine using my Kitchen Aid for cakes and cookies. If we can afford it, is it worth the investment in the Hobart N50? What allows them to command such a higher price for it vs. any of the other top-of-the-line countertop stand mixers?

An SP5 is a bakery-duty, countertop spiral mixer. Link to US distributor here. It is currently manufactured by an Italian bakery equipment company, Esmach, although I cannot find a link to it on their web site[1]

Based on my research the order of similarity to hand-kneading, and therefore the best dough development for artisan bread, are in order (1) diving-arm mixer (2) spiral mixer (3) planetary mixer (Hobart-type). Diving-arm mixers are essentially only sold in Europe and only in bakery capacities. The SP5 is perhaps the only counter-sized spiral mixer on the market.

sPh

[1] Which isn't to say it isn't there: I am surprised by how much "bakery Italian" I can figure out but I do not know the language!

I have been trying to make a fair comparison between the two; but, am really confused. I will be using for bread making only. Been using a Zojirushi X20 bread machine to knead my dough, 2 lbs at a time. I have read the posts, but is there a place to compare the two side by side?

I studied long and hard before choosing a mixer. I had always thought I wanted a Kitchen Aid, but after the research I did I bought the Bosch Universal Plus. I generally make about 8 - 10 pounds of dough at a time and have no problems with the mixer. I have heard lots of good things about the DLX, but from comments posted on the Yahoo Mixer Forum http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mixer-Owners/, there seems to be a pretty good learning curve to get it to work like you want it to. I don't see those kind of complaints with the Bosch. Pleasant Hill sells them both. Maybe call them and ask them. They were great to work with.

Thanks, Doug. Today, I just bought the Bosch from Pleasant Hill Grain. I called them and they had someone return my call. I was able to decide after talking to her. She was very helpful. I did find it interesting though, she said that most men who bake, use the DLX, she was not sure why!! I will be anxious to get my Bosch. I make sourdoughs using my 10+ year old starter and have only been able to make two loaves at a time and now hoping to make more. Will now have to get a commercial size oven. Does Bosch have a video online (like DLX) showing the "how to's"? Thanks again

When I got mine - also from Pleasant Hill Grain - it came with a video on disc. It wasn't really helpful, but then I really didn't need it. After mixing a few batches, you will have a feel for the machine, most likely.

One caveat: The promotional material and recipes under-estimate the necessary mixing times significantly. As I have said numerous times, "Watch the dough, not the clock." Or, as SusanFNP says, "The dough isn't ready. Therefore it is not 2 o'clock" - or something like that.

I haven't tried the DLX but I will swear by the Bosch Universal Plus. I had bought the Pro HD KA and within a week it started breaking. It isn't built for heavy duty bread making. The Bosch rocks. It is exactly what it portreys itself to be. I won't ever by another KA again unless it was 20+ years old and made by Hobart. They are right about the way they used to be made was better but anything made by whirlpool isn't worth the money they are asking. Bosch is a great machine and well made. They have a great warranty and they make bread very well.

While vainly looking for a household sized spiral mixer that didn't have a fixed bowl and hook, I stumbled on the site of the Italian manufacturer of the SP5. Evidently, all spiral mixers (at least from this company) have fixed bowls. Now I'm back to either a Bosch or a DLX.

Anyway, since someone was looking for the website of the European Manufacturer, here it is.

I have lost track of the number of loaves of all kinds of bread from white to whole wheat and beyond that I've made with my 34-year-old Bosch mixer. The only thing I've replace on it is the pin (once) at the top of the drive shaft and the ring portion of the lid assembly when I dropped it on a tile floor and chipped a big chunk out of the edge. I've always made from four to five loaves of bread at once with it and it's heavy motor has handled it all. I was warned away from the KA machines when I bought this machine in the 70's and I've never regretted it. Unfortunately, Bosch has just changed the models but until I can no longer get parts for my old model, I will keep using it. I have also used it for all kinds of cookies, cakes, anything baked you can think of--it does them all very, very well.

I bought a Cuisinart 5.5 Quart Stand Mixer in Brushed Chrome and it does pretty well with cookie dough. I don't feel I have enough knowledge to try my own bread yet, but I'm reading up on it. I think I'm gonna try this weekend. We'll see if my mixer holds up. Hope so. Otherwise, I'm out some bucks.

I love my multi-purpose 8-quart Globe and see that Globe introduced a 5-quart model in 2009. I'd never heard of Globe before attending Scottsdale Culinary's Le Cordon Bleu pastry & baking program. SCI used Globes. The Globe is a quality made machine, a solid work-horse and made in Dayton, Ohio.

I also own a KA 4.5 qt that's 36 years old, an exceptionally well-made machine, and a 6-quart KD pro that is a screamer but has its uses. The old KA worked hard over the decades with only occasional replacement of brushes and repacking of grease. My husband could step down the lowest speed, which always crept up a little with time, perhaps over a year or two. I suppose it was in the 1980s or so that electronic speed controllers took away that mechanical flexibility. Having a really slow speed is especially nice when adding dry ingredients. Have you ever noticed on television cooking shows when the chef adds dry ingredients and the stuff flies all over the place and they have to manually start and stop the machine to control the process? With the old mixers, that wasn't a problem, and if it became a problem, it could be fixed.

My 6 quart KA Pro entered my kitchen in 2003 or 2004 I suppose, and it burned out in less than a year. I did not over-work it, so I can't say what the problem was. I will say that KitchenAid responded to my phone call by sending out a new machine and telling me to put the old one in the box that the new one would arrive in, and send it back to them. When the replacement arrived, KA included a postage paid pick-up label. The second mixer has worked just fine. Because of that excellent customer service, I always recommend a KitchenAid mixer to friends who ask me for mixer recommendations. It's a brand with widely available service.

However, my Globe is the star of my kitchen. I can't say enough good things about it. I am a professional, so I'm used to having just three speeds (1,2,3), and stopping before switching gears. A home baker would have to get used to that routine, but it's not a big deal. A nice feature is a built in timer; if I want to knead for four minutes, I set the timer and take care of other business. My 8-quart is a big stand and does not fit underneath an ordinary kitchen counter. Maybe the 5-quart does. I've never needed service, but I'm not worried about it being available from a local restaurant equipment repair service, or directly from Globe. I like supporting a US manufacturer. Here is a link to the Globe website:

I keep my Globe at our home (which we couldn't sell in this awful market), and brought along my KA Pro to our condo where my hubby works. The 8-quart Globe would not have worked in this tiny condo kitchen, and I miss the Globe's spiral dough hook (my older KA Pro has the C-hook ... yuk ... hate it for kneading).

So here you have a strong recommendation for an American made multi-tasker mixer, Globe.

I love researching and shopping for new baking equipment, and hope that you are enjoying the hunt, Sherri!

I would echo the comments on the Globe SP8. I just got mine after shredding my 5qt Kitchenaid (yes, I did not follow the instructions and overloaded it, so really my fault). I had settled originally on the new 7qt machine by Bakemax, as I had read a good review of the 20 qt machine on this site. Also the price was better than the Globe (and of course the Hobart). I contacted Bakemax, they responded very quickly, found me a dealer and shipped the machine. Unfortunately, the machine did not work at all--right out of the box. The 24 hour hotline produced a recording (it was a weekend). On Monday, the Bakemax people got back to me quickly, but I had made up my mind already to return the machin. I may not have given it a fair chance, but I decided that I did not want to deal with a company that ships a non-functioning machine and does not staff its hotline.

I bought the Globe SP 8 instead and am delighted with it thus far. Well made, heavy, solid. The tree gears don't bug me, I am used to working with a 3-gear machine, and the machine is really very quiet--much quieter than my remaining Kitchen Aid. The mixer attachments are well made and pick up everything in the bowl, even when I mix small quantities. I use the machine to make bread, rolls, Brezeln, cookies, sponges, butter and whipping cream, etc. and it performs very well. I am very happy with its versatilty. In the end, I am glad to have ended up with Globe SP8, although it is more expensive than the Bakemax. It seems to be more solidly built (it is certainly heavier), and I prefer the controls on the front--more user friendly. I have worked with full-size professional machines in the past, and this one really seems to be just like them, just smaller.

For those of you who wonder about the size, I will try to upload a picture that shows the SP8 beside my little Kitchen Aid. Admittedly, it's a bit of a monster, I would not have it in the kitchen. Luckily my bakery is in the basement and it does not take up counter space.

I've been looking at the Globe 8 qt for a couple of weeks now, but I've hesitated about buying it because I haven't heard form anyone who used it for small baking projects -- a batch of cookies, or a loaf of banana bread, for example. Would I also need a smaller mixer for things other than bread or would the Globe work as the OLNY mixer in my kitchen?

I only have two mixers because I didn't feel like giving/donating the KitchenAid Pro 6 away after buying the Globe, and I had the space in my kitchen. I bought the Globe because the KitchenAid Pro 6 sounded really stressed doing gingerbread and it always gets hotter than blazes doing a full day of Christmas baking. I work a mixer hard during the holidays, even though it's just ordinary home baking. I really liked the ease with which the Globes handled a heavy work load three times a day, five days a week Scottsdale Culinary Institute. There were KAs in a few of the kitchens, but we all liked the Globes best. In a sense, I had the luxury of a nice long test-drive of the 8-quart.

In my opinion, you do not need a smaller mixer in addition to the Globe 8-quart. I like the 8-quart Globe because I can double my home recipes easily, make useful quantity of Italian buttercream in one batch, it's strong enough to do a double batch of gingerbread without breaking a sweat, and it kneads effortlessly at a nice, slow speed. The friction factor is around 4 degrees. Dough does not climb out of the bowl with the spiral dough hook. The paddle is generous but you still have to stop and scrape. I suppose that you could have a really tiny formula that wouldn't work well in an 8-quart bowl, but I haven't experienced that problem. The whip is generous in size and covers the bowl well. You don't want to be sticking a spatula or any body parts into the mixer while it's running! It's easy to clean, although it's a real heavy mixer to move. The shield is reasonably effective although it is open at the rear and allows dry ingredients to fly in some applications.

I'm using a Cuisinart 7-quart model for more than 3 years and I am very happy with it. I use it for kneading pre-doughs and up tp 2 breads (for 3 breads or more I use my 20-quart Hobart). I subject it to quite heavy duty use, baking breads at least twice a week for a local store.

What I like about it are not only the "bells and whistles" (a very practical integrated timer) but also these facts:

1.the kneading hook grabs even smaller amounts of dough (what the KA Artisan can't), so I don't have to start out mixing with the paddle before I can switch to the dough hook.

2. a practical lid that is always attached to the mixer head and comes down on the bowl when the head is lowered down. It prevents the extremely annoying cloud of flour or even dough splatters the KA Artisan mixer whirls up when you turn it on (even at lowest speed).

3. the speed is better controllable than KA Artisan's.

4. the engine is strong enough to handle even heavy doughs (of up to 2 breads).

5. the Cuisinart mixer doesn't dance and move as much on the counter top as the KA Artisan does.

I have a KA that I am replacing with the 7 quart Cusinart stand mixer it has 1000 watt motor too and runs $369 on Amazon with free shipping. I don't how that compares in price to the Viking you are looking at. I just ordered it. It is scheduled to arrive by the end of the week but I think it's going to be great. You can also print out a coupon and get the blender attachment for free by mail if do it quickly. I don't remember the deadline on that deal but it is in place now.

The 7-quart Cuisinart is the most used mixer in my kitchen (I also own a 5-quart Kitchen Aid Artisan and a 20-quart Hobart mixer). I mix all my pre-doughs for my commercial baking with it and doughs for up to 2 large breads.

For today's test baking for the New York Bakers I used my Kitchen Aid Artisan, and was again frustrated at its splashing dough around the kitchen even though I tried to prevent that with plastic wrap covering (its also famous for whirling flour through the kitchen) - I never use the lid it came with, I find it too unpractical compared to the Cuisinart where the lid is attached to the mixer head and comes down on the bowl when the head is lowered.

The Cuisinart has a really strong engine and kneads even heavy doughs effortlessly. I also like the inbuilt timer that shuts off the engine when the set time is over.

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