The 1964 GP Season and RVM

Having created something of an informal series of "Past Seasons" with looks at 1959, 1961, and 1982 on the GP side, the next season is 1964. There are several obvious reason for that selection, of course, the first being that it will have been four decades past when the series finally appears. The second is that it was quite an interesting season, with the GP circus descending upon Mexico City with several drivers still in contention for the CSI's WDC.

While I do have much on the season -- easily way more than enough do the series justice, alas, my copies of Autosport and MotorSport from that year have gone to the great warehouse of lost boxes in the sky. I am very interested in the MotorSport reports and the letters of DSJ and any of the various tidbits and so forth from Autosport, naturally. I would appreciate any help with this since I want to do as good a job as possible on this.

Don't look for scads of techno-geek stuff since that has never been exactly my forte. I fully fathom the basics and some of the tricks of the time, but there have always been others far better at that sort of thing than Yours Truly, so I am happy to let the Experts speak clearly versus this amateur mumble. Should anyone wish to address some of this sort of material, I am always willing to give credit where credit is due.

It goes without saying that those expecting to see only 10 events covered, those comprising the CSI WDC for that season, will be disappointed since the many other non-championship events will also take their proper place on the stage. Indeed, it takes a good while before we even get to the first championship round of the season. Also, in a blinding flash of the obvious, since the GP world existed within a universe populated with other racing worlds, an attempt will be made to point out where these worlds intersected from time to time, the F2 race at Reims in July being simply one of the many times these worlds brushing up against other that changed the course of things.

I am giving serious thought to replicating other seasons should this one go well, especially those ending in a '4' naturally. The 1954 GP season is one that seems to have much to commend for itself. And the same could be said for the 1974 GP season and the 1984 F1 season -- please note the subtle way in which I refer to these seasons. Come to think about it, the 1934 GP season would be a good season to write about, particularly with the introduction of a new formula by the CSI, the coming of the Germans, and the fact that this is all happening in the midst of a period of significant economic deprivation when entertainment was eagerly sought by so many.

Perhaps the 1924, 1934, and 1954 AAA and the 1964 and 1974 USAC National Championship seasons along with the 1984 CART season could be looked at as well as the 1964 USRRC season along with the Fall Pro Season...

Wait, this was supposed to be simply a request for assistance with some materials for the 1964 GP season.....

There was certainly plenty happening outside Formula 1: the first races of the Ford GT and the first McLaren car, the arrival of Jackie Stewart and Jochen Rindt, not to mention Peterborough United beating Arsenal in the FA Cup. How do you stop?

My experience tells me that the logical thing to do would be to send to Don the full 1964 Motor Sport binded magazines, let him have a calm look at whatever he feels might be of use and then return it when finished.

Of course, goes without saying, I have no problem whatsoever, I´ll be actually delighted, on submitting my 1964 MS binded copies to the boss by courier as soon as he says "do it"

Plus, those magazines do really need to live some transatlantic experiences

Of course, Don. I´m serious (in this)
Just PM where do you want the binded magazines sent, I´ll send it by courier to you on Monday.
Then you can take your time...
As some other Forum Members might tell you, that is a system in which I believe. It has never worked out wrong.
un abrazo
Felix

Here is something that I decided to commit to paper last night which, (1) sets out the GP events I am looking at, and (2) the first cut at listing the references in my own small research library here in the office -- rather incomplete and without any of the magazines and so forth:

I will collate and insert the events swirling about on the periphery very soon, as well as the appropriate references that are needed.

I am seriously considering seeing if I can add "sidebars" to this puppy so that some depth of a specific, particular sort can be delved into when appropriate. These I think I would like to "contract" out to the Real Experts if this can be done.

Once again, there are those of you out there who an enormous wealth of knowledge that often surpasses mine by lightyears on some topics, so I am all eyes & ears and have no problem whatsoever with giving credit where it is due -- and splitting the fee.....

Zeltweg is a small town in the approximate middle of Austria (Styria) which is fortunate enough to possess one of the few bits of flat ground available and thus a military airfield....with its rather debilitated hangers and looming hills, it struck a familiar note to the Californians present and after some puzzled staring at each other, Richie Ginther, Phil Hill and I all exclaimed together, "Burbank!"

This started us looking around furtively for Eleanor von Neumann, Chuck Manning, Beezie Addison, and other vanished figures of that bygone era, as empty spaces, conspicuous lack of piplatzen, and serried rows of straw bales took us back to the bad old days of airport club racing.

Ah, one of the reasons I picked this season, HNM in full stride......

PS: The latest status on the references since I added some of the magazine articles....

You know, I am not sure why I remember this, whether from a photograph, or from the TV coverage, but one of my abiding memories of the '64 season is Jimmy getting it all crossed up coming into the hairpin at the bottom of the hill at Rouen. There his is with an armfull of opposite lock, his mouth wide open and his little Lotus in extremis.......

Of course he was leading, and of course he gathered it up like he always did - and his later his Lotus broke.

Buried somewhere in my research "stuff" are the details of the Mayfair Scale which was adopted at the end of 1963 for the 1964 season. However, for the life of me, I can't find it. The Mayfair Scale replaced the Monte Carlo Scale after discussions held in London -- guess why it was called the Mayfair Scale -- and finalized in Paris between the organizers and teams concluded in late 1963. The Mayfair Scale continued with the three groups as laid out in the Monte Carlo Scale, but also added the provision of paying for drivers and cars separately, the drivers being paid on a scale according to their points achieved in the previous season's WDC, and the teams being lumped into groups also based upon the previous season's standings. However, there was nothing to prevent an organizer from "sweetening the pot" for teams or drivers...... Any help appreciated....

It is quite possible that it was also referred to as such, but most references I have call it the "Mayfair Scale." However, knowing the ways of the world back then, I would not be at all surprised to find the London Agreement and the Mayfair Scale being the same thing. I have some information on this, but not enough to have the "warm & fuzzy" that I generally like to have on such items, especially to find Roger giving me the old ex post facto, "....by the way, I know that you really meant to say...."

Don, I finally had the opportunity to check all of the usual reference suspects for some info on your query, and I cannot find a blasted thing. I have seen some fleeting references somewhere on the Mayfair Scale, but at present I haven't found a thing.

References aplenty on the Monte Carlo Scale, a tiny bit on the Frankfurt Scale, but nada on the Mayfair Scale.

DCN made a reference to the London Agreement a while back, perhaps a PM will provide the answer.

Without any issues of Autosport at hand, Peter Garnier at Autocar seems to be the only Scribe very concerned with this aspect of the sport. In the 10 July 1964 issue of Autocar, Garnier lays out some of the basics.....

* That the organizing clubs generally only paid for a specific number of startings -- the number the RAC was paying for was 20 at Brands Hatch -- and you had to be invited to even compete for one of those spots in the first place. At Brands Hatch, there were 20 invited and a further four would be admitted if they lapped during practice with a time not more than five seconds over the third fastest lap recorded during the qualifying sessions.

* Rather than the "Mayfair Scale" as he had called it earlier, it is now the "Paris Scale." Cars are divided into two groups, Category 1 and Category 2 according to their performance in the previous season. In Category 1 each car gets 800 pounds per start and in Category 2 each car gets 600 pounds per start. In addition, drivers get 20 pounds per point earned in the previous year's championship with a maximum of 450 pounds and a minimum of 150 pounds.

* Prize money for Brands Hatch was awarded for 1st thru 6th: 1000, 500, 300, 200, 150, and 100 pounds respectively. An additional 100 pounds for the fastest lap on each day of practice with 100 botles of champagne also going to the driver setting the fastest lap during the first day of practice.

This is pretty much most of the specifics I have managed to dig out on first checking the materials.

It is quite possible that it was also referred to as such, but most references I have call it the "Mayfair Scale." However, knowing the ways of the world back then, I would not be at all surprised to find the London Agreement and the Mayfair Scale being the same thing. I have some information on this, but not enough to have the "warm & fuzzy" that I generally like to have on such items, especially to find Roger giving me the old ex post facto, "....by the way, I know that you really meant to say...."

Thanks!

Originally posted by Vitesse2The ones to be really scared of start with: "I wasn't aware that ....."

You asked for this.

The Mayfair scale was in two parts , one for cars, the other for drivers.

Works cars (Brabham, BRM, Cooper , Ferrari and Lotus) normally received £600 percar. A make of car with two grandes epreuves (presumably all championship races count as grandes epreuves) in a season received an extra £200. At the start of 1964,therefore the works Lotus and BRM were worth £800. In working out this qualification, one win was counted as two seconds, one second to two third places. Therefore if Brabham who had two seconds in 1963 had won one of the early 1964 races they would have qualified for the extra £200.

Only three makes could qualify for the £800 rate at any one time, and in the event of a "tie" constructors' championship points would be the deciding factor.

The scale for drivers was a little more complicated

There was a minimum rate of £150, but drivers qualified for bonuses at the rate of £20 per championship point scored, up to a maximum of £450. In addition, the reigning world champion got an extra £100 and all past world champions an extra £50. Drivers could take account of teir championship points of either the current championship season or the past six months.

This scale operated for all international formula 1 events (including non-championship) and was to be considered a minimum. British constructors were thought likely to accept a small reduction for home events because of the reduced travelling costs.

It appears that the "Mayfair Scale" or "Paris Scale/Arrangement" was about as simple as you (and Motor Racing) explained it.... ....and I will post some of my other findings in a day or so and perhaps we can piece it together....

It's your baby Don, but it seems to me you've combined two separate lists, one of events in which some or all the works teams and established privateers took part, and the other a domestic series contested by local drivers. If you you incorporate the ZA series you should presumably include even more obscure 1500 races from elsewhere in the world - English club races, eg.

I think that MJT was michael Tee, son of the publisher and primarily a photographer. Not to be confused with MLT, who was Mike Twite.

That's the name which came into my mind too. IIRC he normally did the GP reports for Motoring News, but subbed for DSJ on the trans-Atlantic races as well as doing his own job. Why did Jenks never go to the USA anyway?

Originally posted by Don Capps Here is the calendar with the South African races included, several of which even Peter McIntosh admits knowing very little about....

I have seen (in paper) what you mean by "knowing very little about". I would suggest that you contact Robert Young (ry6) because I am sure that between him and Frank Hoal they will shade some light on the "obscure" events -as they have been doing in the last couple of years with Frank´s account´s of the several SA Drivers´Championships... (presently dealing with 1963...);)

Originally posted by David McKinney It's your baby Don, but it seems to me you've combined two separate lists, one of events in which some or all the works teams and established privateers took part, and the other a domestic series contested by local drivers. If you you incorporate the ZA series you should presumably include even more obscure 1500 races from elsewhere in the world - English club races, eg.

David,

The ZA events were a series (with its share of non-championship events it seems) actually run -- at least in spirit -- to the stipulations of the CSI F1. While I don't plan to do much with them, neither do I intend to ignore them. I don't see them remotely being comparable to the 1,500cc classes in Britain or elsewhere.

Having said that, however, your thoughts mirror my first thoughts on this when I saw the gaps in the material that I have managed to gather. Actually, it was more of a groan since I had this remote hope that the ZA championship formula was along the libre that season -- even though I realized that was perhaps wishful thinking.

Doodling with this earlier this morning, the approach I am currently looking at is to mention the ZA events moreorless in passing as part of The World Scene with some attention devoted to the Rand GP in December.

As to the list itself, I think that to concentrate on just the events in the CSI WDC series is to miss the essence of the times, if you will. Whenever I read something to the effect that "Monaco was the first GP/F1 event of the year," I always think about the dented, crunched, or written-off chassis, blown engines, and damaged suspension parts lying about in bins in the various workshops.....

I will probably continue to waffle on this (the ZA thing) until I can't and I have to make up my mind -- an honest answer. I am taking the liberty of talking out loud in the hope of having some sane voices -- like yours, David -- point out some blinding flashes of the obvious to me....

I don't know whether this will be of any help to Don, or whether it's of any interest to anybody else, but I enjoyed compling it. It's a trawl through the news pages of Autosport for the first six months of 1964. I've concentrated on items relating to Grand Prix racing but included others that took my fancy. There is no pretence at completeness, rumours and news stories are side-by-side.

The significant, the trivial and the complete bollocks of Jan-June 1964:

Being deficit any copies of Autosport for 1964, but having had (most of -- the post office always lost one or two a year it seems) them at one point, I can see in my mind's eye much of what you recorded. Which is one reason writing this thing is a real challenge since I keep getting sidetracked by tidbits that surface and make me say, "Whoa! Is that neat or what?!" which means another hour or two or so spent doing "research"......

Something that I had forgotten was the thin, narrow string upon which the Brabam GP team seemed tp hang in the Winter of 1963/1964, although it seems that period of the Brabhams team's life seems to just sweep by in the various chronicles. Or, am I imagining things again?

Thanks of this wonderful list, Roger. It is just the sort of thing that I tend to thrive upon.

Something that I had forgotten was the thin, narrow string upon which the Brabam GP team seemed tp hang in the Winter of 1963/1964, although it seems that period of the Brabhams team's life seems to just sweep by in the various chronicles. Or, am I imagining things again?

In his column in motor Racing (Feb 1964), Brabham said that the team had suffered in '63 because they had insufficient engines and mechanics at the races. This would have to change for the new season. I'm not aware of any new money coming into hte team that year (presumably there was Goodyear money in '65) but reliability and results were both much improved in '64. Sales of customer cars were increasing in '64 so it is possible that MRD was, directly or indirectly, supporting BRO. It is also likely that tey benefitted from increased starting money following the introduction of the Mayfair scale. Jack would have got an extra £50 a race as an ex-world champion!

Not strictly speaking directly linked to the 1964 F1 season per se, but how about Jackie Stewart driving a Jaguar XK120 (Eric Brown's much modified DHC registration number 1 ALL) to win a race at Crystal Palace sometime I seem to recall in June 1964. Somehow I cannot imagine any latter day budding future F1 stars doing a 'clubbie' like this in an old car only months away from their F1 debut.

Or how about the fact that at the 1964 British GP at Brands Hatch the obligatory Red Arrows flying display included one of their planes flying into the depression between the the top of Druids and the pit straight beneath the level of the grandstand opposite the start/finish line. I know because I was standing behind said grandstand as it passed over the top not more than 50 feet above it preceded by terrified shreaks and a very loud and synchronised collective intake of breath! Health and safety, never 'eard of it Guv.

Don: if it's of any interest, I have found the entire text of the Paris Agreement, dated November 28th 1963 and in force from January 1st 1964. It's reproduced in Chapter 9 of Michael Cooper-Evans' book "Private Entrant" (another eBay bargain!)

I have found it very easy to get (pleasantly) distracted as I work to fill in the gaps for the activities of this season. Here are a few names that I have been working on to somehow build a "picture" of during 1964:

Some I have rather fair amount on and others I am just a tad above clueless. Generally, I am trying to find some material on them relevant to their activities during 1964. Sometimes I tend to overlook the obvious or there is some tidbit that I have either overlooked or just flat didn't know that suddenly makes the person "click."

Yes, I am suffering from that dreaded "Do I Really Want to End This Project Since I am Really Enjoying It So Much?" Syndrome.....

Really, as interesting as the GP part of the season was, when you heap everything into the mix, it is even more fascinating....

Over in RC there's a thread about dirty tactics to win championships and I mentioned the Bandini/Hill 1964 crash, but said that it was by all accounts an accident.

as65p states that in the current issue of Motorsport Aktuell Dieter Stappert reports that "Graham Hill told him afterwards how Bandini had outbreaked himself several times before at the hairpin, every time always aiming at Hills car while doing so (not beside it, as would have been normal). Hill allegedly told Stappert "he tried a few times to get me and I drove wider lines each lap. Finally he managed to hit me, damaging my exhausts."