Troy - I don't usually have a problem with the first 1/2 mile, but usually I feel the most tired between miles 1-3 for some reason. I feel like my legs need to get into the run a bit and then I'm fine. Every run it's a little bit different though. Glad to see you're keeping up a great pace in your runs as well. Good luck if you run in that race!

Urban - That's a solid time for that 5 miler you ran. I've been noticing in my races and runs recently that my pace has slowed up a bit due to the hot weather, so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about that.

David - You have made great strides in the last few weeks with you pace - keep up the great work!

Philly - Solid runs as always, and I'm constantly in awe of your work rate and pace. Great job!

Jay - Nice job at getting the miles in. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about the hill sprints and your pace. I just started getting into hills and speed work myself and it definitely takes time to get good at them. Also with the heat and humidity it's difficult to keep at a good pace. Don't stress too much either about increasing mileage every week/month. Find a good amount of mpw and stick to that until you build a solid base.

As for me, getting back into my runs a little more after having an easy week last week. Ran my LR this past Saturday and it was a struggle in the heat. Did 7.70 miles @ 8:25 pace, so an overall time of 1:04:56. Got to be happy with that time, though, considering I hadn't really been running hard the previous week. Did an easy 4 miles on Sunday @ 8:23 pace, and then did only 3.38 miles on the mill yesterday as the heavy rain has kept me inside. Ran 5 minutes easy and then 1 minute at 5k pace about 5 times, so not bad. Tonight I ran another 4 progressive miles @ 8:01 pace, so I'm slowly getting my pace back. Will take tomorrow off and spend some time with the wife and kids and then it's back at it on Friday with a progressive 6 miles. Will hope to run another 8 mile LR on Sunday after an easy 3 miles on Saturday on the mill.

mv- i hear ya about the humidity. it sucks. I just picked running back up last fall, so I forgot how hard it was to run in weather like this. good paces on your runs considering the heat/humidity factor. glad you are having a good week.

dave- nice couple of runs you did the last couple days. good job fitting those in with PT and everything else. keep it up, nice job.

me- I planned an easy 8 for today. I ended up having the day off from work w/o even having to ask for it. My wife was off too, so I wasn't on a time crunch this morning. I still set my alarm for 7 so I could get out before it got too hot. Well, 7 turned into 8:45 and I didn't get out until 9:30. It was 80 degrees and 85% humidity when I left. I chose a course that was mostly shaded with about 2.5 miles going through trails. So it wasn't as bad as it could have been. I took it nice and slow just so I could make the distance. The only issue was that the only way to get to the trails was to go down a big hill just past 1 mile into the run, but because I was doing an out and back, this put the big uphill just before mile 7. Not fun. I wore my belt with two little bottles of water, but I ran out just before I hit the hill. So my last two miles I had no water. It was really hard to push through and make the distance, but I did it. It was pretty slow, but I got in the 8 that I wanted to. Overall time was 1:13.42

Troy- I don’t know about me killing it. These workouts are killing me. Been sore for 3 days now after crossfit haha.

Urban- I def feel like superman 2 right now w/out the powers. Glad you’re back to running. Hope the time off was enjoyable.

Jay- I feel ya on the 68.8, 1.2 miles wouldn’t have been that hard to get. But in the long run, 1.2 miles isn’t going to make or break anything. Nice hill sprints, that 3rd one sounds brutal, but glad you came back strong. Sorry about the 5 miler, but at least it wasn’t a fitness issue.

David- I’m glad I got that run in, b/c the last two runs have been a lot harder with all the soreness from crossfit. Really nice 7 miler from you. Getting faster.

mv- haha that’s funny, I feel like I’m going so slowly. Over the winter all my runs were low-mid 7s. but heat slows me down. Solid runs you’re getting in. those longer, slower paced runs really are the key to improving and being able to get the speed work in. nice LR in those conditions.

me- easy 5 wed, easy 4 yesterday. plan is an easy 6-8 on the mill after work. abs and back have been sore from crossfit on tuesday still, so no tempo planned. kinda can't wait to get done with crossfit, have about 2.5 weeks left. i def feel stronger, but the soreness is hampering quality runs. after crossfit, i'll do the convict routine as well or maybe some easy lifting at the gym post run. good and bad news for me, with the sequestration comes furloughs, so i've got a 4 day weekend.. nice to have time off, but that paycheck is gonna be 20% lower.. hope the people in congress can get their act together. kinda scary they would furlough people who work in a hospital... especially the military hospital.

Well, I ended up running the Peachtree Road Race yesteday but I can't say I'm too proud of the way I got into this event to run it. Unfortunately, me getting a free bib didn't work out so my friend suggested I run it bandit so that's what I did.... and I'll just leave that right there.

Since I was in no 10k PR shape and I hadn't been training hard the last 4 weeks due to my knee issue, I just ran this one hard tempo effort but mainly just try to enjoy the event and kinda guaging my current fitness level. I usually wear my HRM during races, but knowing I was not going to give this one a PR effort, I decided to leave the monitor at home. But going off feel, this one would have definately put me in my blue zone if not patches of red at times. The weather here in Atlanta has been nothing but rain the last few days. We started out with rain pre-race and as it got closer to start time, it had tapered off and cleared out with spotty sprinkles at times after that. It was mostly cldy, overcast, with decent cool breezes. Not too bad.

When our start time began, you can only go so fast as you are trying to dodge people, and find clear openings so you lose alot of time in that first half mile or so. But I wasn't trying to kill this one, so losing some time wasn't a big issue for me. My friend and I hung together for about the first 3 miles, then separated as he had alot more in him than I did. I ended up finishing 46:20. Way off PR, but with the lack of training, my recent knee injury and the challenging course, I'll take it anyday. Here's how I staked up against a field of 55,714.

Overall = 1879/55714

Gender = 1569 / 28,032

AG(45-49) = 160/3308

Male finishers = 28,032

Female Finishers = 27,682

After the event, we just walked around took in the sights and made the mile walk back to the car.

I won't tell the authorities if you won't! I don't think I've ever run bandit, but with the ever increasing cost of races, it does make me think from time to time. How did you determine your times and rankings? Did you just use your watch time to fit yourself in the statistics from the race report?

For me:

Yesterday, I ran 8 miles in the summer heat in Sacramento. Starting temperature was about 84 and finishing temperature was about 90. Out here, people are complaining about it being humid as well, but really, they don't know humidity!

Because I have tried to avoid the heat when I run (6:00 AM runs normally), I am not prepared for it, and it really slowed me down. I did manage three sub-8:00 miles in the run (4,5, and 6). It wasn't pretty, and I didn't feel too strong along the way.

Today, an hour of bicycling cross training in the AM.

Have a good holiday weekend everyone, drive safely, and keep out of the heat and humidity as much as you can.

Philly,Crossfit sounds pretty demanding. I'm sure you are making the most of it. Way to continue on with all the miles mixed in.

Troy, Way to go on that 10k. A really nice effort considering the past issues lately. Keep up the great work.Oh and those miles 2&3 really nice!

Mike, I guess the heat thing can only last for so long,still you seem to be making good strides in the run dept.

Me, Got out this morning and after the first mile I figured I'd kick up and do a neighborhood 5k. Worked out well as I finished it in 23:27. The last half mile or so really kicked my ass but it felt pretty good! LOL.Looks as if next week will be my last 2 visits to the PT. Tomorrow back to some long sloer miles.

I've been a lame participant in the forum the last few months, but I've read a little to catch up and hope all are well. Lots of new faces (new to me anyway) so great to see everyone training hard.

I'm amping up my training, been doing my usual 30-35 MPW all year, but not a lot of speed work or races. Been changing that lately too. 13 X 1:00 fartlek a couple weeks ago, "'raced" a 4th of July 4 Miler Thursday a little slower than my old tempo pace, but the lack of speed recently had certainly effected my fitness.

Strange, same mileage and I've added 2 days a week of upper body lifting and one legged leg presses and my body is in better shape than it has been in a couple years, but lack of speed work and this humidity in Charlotte has me a little slower than normal.

Not worried, just going to stick to effort training and wait out cooler dryer weather to get a gauge on fitness. I'll race again late this month, if I can find a good one or wait until late August for Greekfest and try sub 20 again.

Ran 12 this morning in the soup. Glacial 8:33 pace, but ran with a buddy who's a little slower than me. The more I read, the more I'm beginning to understand these long runs don't have to be that fast. Just need 90+ minutes on your feet with some hills. First time ever I've run 12 milers in 3 consecutive weeks. Trying to build some long run fitness for the half as well.

Troy glad you are over your knee injury. I'm still in the zero-drop Altra Torin's that I tried 2 months ago and they are game changers for me. I'm, knock on wood as healthy as I've been for as long as I've been since I started running again almost 4 years ago.

mjm6, yes that's exactly what I did. I just looked and saw where my time would have been placed within the overall runners and got it from that. Things are tight right now for us, so racing isn't something I can very often. It has to be a goal race that I really train hard for and my time to count. Sometimes I'll bandit a race when I just need some extra motivation in the speed work dept. and being around all of the 5k'ers really help out.

OF, Glad things are better than ever your way! keep up the good work!

David, hey, thanks. Nice job with the subdivision 5k training run!

Everyone else, hey and good running !!

Met my friend this morning at the park. Instead of our usual long run together, my friend wanted to mix in some mile repeats while getting in some distance so that's what we did. He's wanting to sharpen his speed a bit for an upcoming 5k in late July. I figured it wouldn't hurt me either to get in some LT work and speed too. We both have Garmin 410 watches so we set them up for 8 x 1mile repeats w/ 3min recoveries. With both of us just coming off a 10k on Thur, we knew we'd be a bit tired from the race but I decided to go through with it and see how I'd respond. My legs felt good but I was definately still tired from the race. My friend wasn't as tired as I was but we both went for it and just wanted to see if we could do all 8 repeats. My goal on these were to just run them as close to LT effort as possible without crashing and burning. The first 5-6 definately felt 10kish effort, then on the last two, I was just trying to hang on and come in under 8 minute miles which I succeeded. We jogged the recoveries. With warmup/recoveries and cooldown, total run was 10.75 miles. A very tough workout to say the least. Now it's time to chill and recover!

SUMMARY FOR RUN ON SAT. 7/6/13 @ 7:15am (Mile repeats)

Total Time = 92 mins 48 secs, Total Distance = 17.31 kms or 10.76 miles

Troy, Boy thats a helluva strong workout! Well done. Had to be very exhausting.

OF, Really decent LR. I'm just figuring out myself how the long slower runs are beneficial. Just recently spoke with my XC,Track coach from 30+ years ago. He told me to "Train Slow To Race Fast". I believe he is absolutely correct. He still coaches today for the Boys Town school in Nebraska.

Me, Got out and ran 5:14 miles in the rain. If anybody in Ky has wanted to run outside the last several days it had to be in some rain. No complaints from me I really don't mind it.

Haven't updated here in a while. I started running April 1, 2013 after a 10 year layoff. I ran a 5k May 3 in 22:14 and then I ran another May 26 in 22:03. I have been gradually building up my mileage and I am around 20 miles per week now. Yesterday I ran a 5k race in 21:51.

So, the increased mileage is SLOWLY increasing my overall time and hopefully that along with 2 day a week speed-work will help me get below 20 min.

Troy, That' a pretty serious set of mile repeats. I remember doing things like that in HS, but haven't done anything like it since, and I'm not sure I want to!

David, nice workout. I like running in the rain, but haven't had a chance to do it since last winter. Probably won't again until this winter coming up, just not much rain in the central valley in the summer.

Glkman, I am a believer in quality runs over quantity in genera, but when you are trying to achieve certain levels of performance beyond basic running, miles always will help as long as you don't cause yourself injury. It is a slow process, fur sure.

ME: I went out on Saturday and did 8 miles, with the four in the middle progressive:

mi pace

two mile warmup with my wife

3 8:17

4 7:50

5 7:20

6 6:55

And then two miles cool down with my wife.

Sunday, I felt good, so I decided to do 16 miles. Started out with a mile at about 9:20, and then settled into a target 8:30 pace. Ran that for about 12 miles, and then picked it up to 8:10 for a mile, and then one more at 8:00. Finished with two miles slow with my wife, who jogged out to meet me on the trail.

Al told, 16 miles, 2:19:49 total, average 8:44 (including the warmup and cooldown miles). In the middle of that is probably the fastest HM I've run (I haven't run one since I had the stent placed this past winter). The Garmin software doesn't have the capability to select a range of the data and provide useful stats (like distance and time from point A to point B). It provided stats, but noting terribly useful. I need to search out some better software I guess.

Also, first time beyond 10 miles with the Kinvara's. Felt great. While my legs were tired by the end of the run, I had no issues with my feet, and overall, I felt good in the shoes the entire time. I believe I have found a winning match for my running style and feet.

Jay - sometimes it's just about getting the miles in. Great run for you!

David - your workouts are getting better and better and very consistent. Great job!

mjm - that's a lot of miles for one weekend. Very good pace for both as well in the summer!

Welcome back OF and glkman!

As for me, got a few decent workouts in. Ran 6 miles on Friday @ an 8:35 pace. Wanted it to be a progressive run, but with the heat, just kept pace after 3 miles. Yesterday I just did 3 easy miles on the mill while the kids were taking their nap. Tonight I planned on doing 8 miles, but after 6 once again the heat and humidity stopped me in my tracks. Here in NJ we actually were under an extreme heat advisory, and when I went out for the run, it was 91 degrees and around 75% humidity. I picked a shaded course to run on, which helped, and also brought a bottle of water, but 6 miles in I could feel my whole head get red and felt slightly dizzy. Ended up stopping at 6.23 miles and I was only going @ 9:05 pace, but I didn't want to risk it.

I'm realizing that I'm just gonna have to get as many miles in as possible this summer and I've got to throw pace out the window in most cases. It's frustrating as I'm just starting up my marathon training, but hopefully by September it'll be better and that I'll be better for it.

I had a busy weekend this 4th of July weekend. I competed in 3 races in 4 days, placing in my AG in 2 and top ten overall in the 3rd (no AG results).

I ran a 10k in Kailua (windward side of Oahu) on Thursday the 4th, ran a 48:25 officially, 31st overall 2nd in 30-34 AG. It was real hot and I was not at my best for that race, and it showed by losing nearly 2 minutes off my previous PR last month.

On Saturday, I ran a 5k at Ford Island down in Pearl Harbor, it was a flat loop around the old WWII airstrip that was bombed by the Japanese. I ran a 22:30, unofficially (no results past top 3) but my Garmin measured the course as over .15 miles long. At the 3.1 mark I was under 21:30, close to my recent PR of 21:15. I finished 7th overall in that race, I think, but again no results were calculated past top 3.

This morning, I ran an 8k race, again in Kailua. I ran a 38:11, good for 29th overall and 3rd in my 30-34 AG. This race was the one I felt the best, oddly, even though I was exhausted from 3 races and 4 busy days this entire weekend. I'm not much nearer to a sub-20 5k at this point, but I am back in the groove for racing. Now I am hoping these races (and my new Minimus MT10s) will give me a jump start to get back on track in my training.

I'll catch up tomorrow with everyone, hope you all had a great 4th and some good racing this weekend. I know I did.

mv, Keep duking it out with the temps. All the miles are beneficial even though sometimes you may feel they aren't.Positive results are on the way.

Don, Interesting series of races! Good results for all 3 even though you were somewhat disgruntled on the first. Keep up the great runs.

Me, Sunday got out for an 8 miler with an overall pace of 8:29. My longest run for quite some time.Legs felt somewhat spent at the end. Today turned out to be my last day with the PT. Ran 3 miles on the mill while I was there amongst other core and strengthening exercises.Tomorrow back to the asphalt.Ended last week with 33.9 miles.

Hey guys, I had a goal to get to sub 20 5k last year and got to 21:54 until I gave up because of the harsh winter conditions and lack of motivation. I finally got back on my feet once more this year and my first "hard run" 5k (to see where I was at this year) went significantly well. I ran a 23:05 where I probobly could have gotten sub 23. I am following the following training program at the moment and completed day 1 of week 1 this morning. Anyone interested in checking it out and critisizing it if there's anything sketchy? file:///C:/Documents%20and%20S...%20a%205K%20Race.htm

nicb33: Welcome to the chase! That's a good 5k time, especially without much consistent training! Keep on your program and you should see some good gains. We can't see the link, try uploading it as an attachment maybe?

David: Nice long run! Hope you can stay clear of the PT this time around, it sounds like you're in a pretty good groove.

MV: The only way to beat that heat is to get up at 3 or 4 am before the sun can roast you. Good run anyway, 90+ is brutal.

MJM: That's a great pace for your long run, knocking out 16 miles with basically a 12 mile steady state run in the middle is pretty impressive. Glad to hear you like the Kinvara's, I almost chose a pair when I went to the LRS last weekend, but I went with some Mizuno Wave Precision 2s instead. Just a bit more durable and cushioned for getting back into the longer runs.

Thanks Donver! Yep, this is why I was frustrated at myself for slacking off yet happily surprised that I hadn't lost too much f my old endurance! For the Link I kind of messed up and lost my program! Had to search the net for 30 min and fell upon it once more. Have a look! http://www.the-fitness-motivat...aining-for-a-5k.html

Back to the road this morning this morning at 7a. 72 degrees and 94% humidity. 6 miles @ 8:09 pace. Got back to the house and felt like a washcloth that had been placed under a running faucet for 5 minutes. Good steady run with 4 hill sprints in the last mile.

donver, congrats on the races and age placements. Always a nice bonus!

mvallone, Thanks on my race and run. Honestly I don't know how I had it in me on those mile repeats 2 days following the 10k. That just means that I didn't give more in the race. I hear ya on the heat and humidity. It sucks down here in the old south too. I too have to start thinking about throwing out pace and just run by effort when you're running in this stuff.

mjm6, nice job with the long run. My long run was up to that distance for awhile but has since come way down over the last couple of months. I will be ramping back up the distance on my LR's here very soon as I hope to start training for my first marathon in October.

nicb33, Hope the new program helps get you where you want to be. Just keep at it!

glkman, welcome back to the fold. Continue success with your training and ramping your mileage back up.

Me,

I didn't get up yesterday morning as usual and run so I dropped by the gym last night and did a 15min coreworkout + 10min upper weights, followed by 4 easy miles on the mill. I'm such a heavy sweater, I was a swimming pool when I got done with the mill and that was indoors at a light pace but still it squeezes me dry.

This morning got up extra early and ran 5.5 easy miles @ 8:34 clip. I felt a bit tired on this run I guess from the two consecutive gym workouts the last few days. And the fact that I haven't been at the gym in about a month so I'm just now getting back into my strength training and core workouts again.

troy- nice 10k, pretty good time considering you're in recovery mode. very nice LR as well, i like mile pickups when you can do them, it makes the run much faster and more interesting. plus it's a good way to add speed if you're only doing one other speed session per week.

mjm- the heat is tough for sure. just getting short runs can be difficult. very nice 8 miler w/ progression and LR. i love my kinvaras and actually got 2 new pairs in (a pair of 3's on clearance and found a pair of boston edition 4's in my size), i've got 6 total, but have retired 1 pair now and another 2 will be retired very soon.

david- crossfit has been really hindering the runs lately. i've run 10 days in a row, but last friday i could only manage 1.3 miles b/c of really sore abs and saturday was only a 3 miler. can't wait until the next week is over, as i'll be done 2x/week crossfit and will likely stop until november as i start my 18 month training cycle. nice impromptu 5k from you, that's a great time with that starting 8+ miler.

OF- i'm very close to you mileage wise, i think i've averaged 37 mpw for the year, i'd like to do 40-45 and up to 50 for the 2nd half of the year. i've stopped worrying about pace, there's only so fast you can go in this heat and humidity.

glk- nice 5k times after such a long running layoff, those times are coming down quick.

donver- nice races. have you run in those shoes before? i did and ended up having foot pain, so just transition carefully.

nicb- welcome back into the pursuit. the program seems to be good, but 6 weeks is kind of short. also, it's strange that you only have 440 yd repeats, it might be wise to throw some 880s in there in place of 440s and also add in some 220s afterwards.

me- it's been fairly hectic the last few days and crossfit really threw me off. despite doing it for 7 weeks now, there are workouts that just get me so sore. last week's workout had me pretty sore and i only managed 1.3 on friday instead of 6-8 and 3 on sat, instead of 5. ended the week with 36.5 miles, when i wanted to hit 40. as i said earlier, i'm on a 10 day run streak, with it planned to end friday. actually got outside for my LR, the first time in over a month. it was at 6:40am 75 degrees and 94% humidity.

Nice family photos there phillypharm! I was tempted to get a pair of the Boston ones right after they came out, but I hadn't tried the Kinvaras yet, and didn't want to order them without a fit trial.

Troy, I know a lot of people "just run", but I think that strength training is very underrated, and in particular for runners, core training. I need to do more myself... I'm trying to build my miles up a bit, but not really training for anything long at the moment, My Dr. told me to stay away from ultra-long efforts for a while (over about 2 hours or so), at least until I am off the blood thinner next winter. That's why I shifted to the 5K and 10K focus this year.

David: Real nice run. I can't even imagine running in that humidity anymore even though I grew up in it, but at least it wasn't 90 degrees as well!

Don: Tell us what you think of those shoes once you've had a little time in them... I'm always interested in what people think about their running shoes, especially in comparison to another pair, since there really are no absolutes in the shoe world.

ME: this morning, 8 miles with 3x mile repeats in the middle @ 6:20, 6:30 and 6:35. Felt a bit tired, and was aiming for 6:20 for all three, but couldn't pull it off.

I feel like I may be about ready to attempt a sub-6:00 mile. Maybe one more month of training and then I'll try one. Considering it's been 25+ years since I have done that, I feel it will be an accomplishment to pull one of those off. Of course, I was hitting those repeatedly back then, but you gotta start somewhere, right?

I have been scared to use them, honestly. I got two pair last week, a pair of Mizuno Wave Precision 2's and the NB Minimus MT10v2 (I nearly got the Kinvara, but I think the Mizunos will be more durable), because my Nike Free's were causing blisters under my big toe after about 250 miles. I have kept doing my races in the Frees, however, because I don't want to start off running hard in brand new shoes that I'm not used to.

I ran a Physical Fitness Test this morning, completing the 2-mile course in 13:18 in the rain and a massive headwind.

donver- i gotta say the kinvaras are holding up well. i have over 500 miles on one pair and over 450 on two more. the black treads on the bottom are still good and i could probably get more use out of them, but i'm transitioning them to my walking/yard work shoes. that said, mizunos are a great brand. nike i'm not a fan of. nice job on the 2 mile.

Troy, It seems those tired type runs hit everybody from time to time. The miles still count not only for weekly totals but total fitness also.You're probably correct on the gym workouts also.

Philly, Nice array of footwear you have there. I'm sure you can't wait for the cooler temps to arrive. Good to see that you got back outside. You must be getting a little cabin fever from the indoor runs.Great LR and accompaning runs too.

Mike, Super 8 miler with the repeats! Very impressive times. Best of luck with the mile goal. Looks as if you're in line to make it happen.

Paul, Welcome to the thread and best wishes on achieving the sub 20 mark.

Me, Another 6 mile effort this morning. About the same weather as yesterday, 73 degrees and 94% humidity.8;23 pace easy.

Great work guys! Phill, your shoes look so great! I've been thinking about buying myself a new pair. Right now runnng with some plain nike running shoes. (until now they lasted me a whole year, with a decent amoutn of miles in them.) Also, I wanted to thank you for checking out my training plan. I found it a bit strange too that it was so short but it's one of those plans where looks pretty straightforward and has no hill workouts (no hills in my area.) The speed workouts put me off a bit. I agree with what you said, that 440 isn't enough and should get some 220s and 880s in there. Although is it better to do 220s, 440s and 880s rather then doing 200s, 400s and 800s? Aswell as some 1200s? Because my watch marks the "laps" I run which woukld make the extra 20, 40 and 80 m an inconvinience to really get those speed workouts spot on. Anyways, i've been sticking to the program pretty well. The only dificulty i've had was the speed workout (which I need to do more of, since i'm not too used to them) and my 8k tempo run. I had a rough time keeping a pace of 5:06 per km. I must admit on the tempo I went a bit too fast during pretty much the whole run having an avg of 4;45 per km. This is probably the reason why after 6km I was dead tired. I'll try to slow it down next time. it's just that i'm one of those speedy runners who dislikes the slow and long hauls..

Philly, you are nuts going 7:46 at 99 degrees, I dont care about how damn humid it is! that's great

Troy the gym will wear you down on workouts, but make you stronger in the long run. I'm hitting the weights twice a week full body in the PM after morning runs and its not only helping my strength, it's leaning me up and increasing my metabolic rate. All good stuff for this 48 year OF.

I did 33 miles last week with a 12 miler, going to try and hit 37 this week. This morning I met a buddy and did 5 Miles with an 8X400 workout included, on the gravel at McAlpine. My times were a bit inconsistent due to the terrain, but the 1:26-1:30 range. A little slow but considering 96% humidity and 73 degrees, non-track I'll take it. Might add a tempo in this weekend to my long run, planning to stretch it WAY out and go 14 miles Saturday. Never been farther than 13.1. We'll see.

OF- thanks, the good news is i wasn't pushing at all on that run. we had a big group yesterday of about 25 of us and we all chatted the entire way. although some were breathing heavier than others and by the end it was 3 of us together. last summer it was hitting 105 and i was still getting in easy paced runs in the 7:30-7:40 range, but looking back, i capped those at 3-4 miles. now i'm doing them 5-6 miles (monday was 6 @7:50 pace). nice 400s, def solid with the gravel and the humidity. have fun on the LR this weekend, adding in some speed makes it go quite a bit faster (of course) but also more interesting.

nicb- i think the plan is in yards, so 440 yards = 400m pretty much. (220 yd = 200m, etc). so yes, 200m, 400m, 800m etc are fine. if it were meters, 440m @1:30 would be 5:27/mi pace roughly, which might be too fast for a first time 20min 5k goal. also, if you throw in 200m or over 400m intervals, adjust the pace based on the distance. I haven't done intervals in a while, by i like to do 4x800m followed by 4x400m. last time i believe i averaged 2:58 (5:56 pace) for the 800s and 1:21 for the 400s (5:28 pace). but be sure not force the pace if you have to extend the recovery. for 800s i do 400m recovery or about 2-2.5min, and for 400s i do 200m recovery (about a min).

also, cut the tempo run down a bit. it's ok to start shorter. so do a 3 mile tempo (1-2 mile warmup and 1-2mile c/d) and then each week you can add a half mile or so. tempo runs usually are 20-40min at a pace you can normally hold for an hr. (of course, if you train for a full marathon, it'd go longer.)

I haven't posted in a while due to traveling. Been getting in 45 MPW or so with 2-3 hard workouts. My wife and kids are out of town now, so I'm hoping to get in 55 MPW or so for the next couple of weeks. I've got my first 5K (not ever, but since deciding to focus on a sub-20:00) coming up on 7/20.

Wow, I missed a lot since last weekend. Welcome to all the newbies, and welcome back to the ones the have returned.

There is no way I can comment on everthing I missed, and I'm sure you all don't have time to read it either. My posts are normally on the long side anyway, so I would take up and entire page of the forum if it replied to everyone I missed since my last login.

Just to update on me. Not much going on. I tried to run a 6 x 400 at the track last saturday. I woke up late and didn't get there until about 10. It was pushing 90 and was very humid. I thought I'd attempt anyway.

I took the short route to the track (1 mile, instead of 1.3). I brought a gatorade with me to keep hydrated during the workout. I ran my first 400 at 80 seconds. That was a little fast. I was hoping to do all of them 83-87 seconds. Next one I settle down a little, 83, 3rd one 85. I decided to jog 400 inbetween each one since I have done very few speed workouts. After the 3rd one, I was really starting to feel it in my legs, the heat was started to get to me too. I grabbed my gatorade and walked 200m, then as I was jogging the next 200 I started to feel a quesy. I walked to the start, went for the next one, got about 50 meters and threw up, started to walk it off and threw up again. I had to work at 2:30 so once I felt ok, I just jogged home. I took Sunday and Monday off. Which was good, because I was starting to feel a little burned out. I think a combination of my wife being back at work and changes to my work schedule that last couple week really through me for a loop. I needed the break.

Tuesday we have a 5k fun run in my town that I've been wanting to do for a couple weeks, it was less humid and since I was well rested I figured this was a good time to do it.

The course was pretty confusing when explained to me, alot of sharp turns and going this way and that way around the school, around a trail on the way up, then through the trail on the way down. I didn't really get it. There was a woman there who said she usually runs the course at about 7:20-7:30 pace. It was a little slower than I wanted to run, but the course wasn't make very well. So I hung with her the first mile, it was 7:18. Not bad, the second mile slowed down, I wanted to go faster, but I reall didn't know where to go, so I stayed with her through mile 2, which was 7:49, way slower than I wanted.

There was a 65 year old man running with us too, just after the 2 mile when we could started to find our way back on our own, he started to pull away. I kept him in my sight the whole time, I didn't want to go too fast and burn out at the end, I felt like a had a lot left in the tank. The finish of the course was 300m on the track, by the time we got to the track he was about 75m in front. I went into my kick and started to close the gap, I though to myself passing the 200m mark, if the picks it up at all I won't catch him. 100 m to go, I went into full sprint mode and passed him right at the end. This made my last mile 6:49. Overall 5k time 22:16, 3 mile split 21:56. Not as fast as I wanted, but considering the circumstances, not too bad of a time.

It was a nice warm up for my 5k next sat.

After the race, I kind of felt bad about passing the guy, I just got caught up in the moment, it was just a fun run after all. Then I thought I shouldn't feel bad, because he had pulled away to try to finish first. Not really sure what the etiquette would be in that situation. Maybe I could have just caught up to him and finish together? Although as fast as I was going I'm not sure I could have pulled up to do that.

Good running and posting everyone. If I had commented on everything I missed, imagine how long this would have been. haha.

Glad to hear from you Jay, I beleive during the circumstances what you did was fine. Anyways racing, atleast for me, is about competing with myself, and less about competing against others. Therefore there is no shame in passing the man before the finish line. Another update about myself, I was sniffing through the forum and found taht I can create my own plan. If anyone has free time and wants to take a look, it would be appreciated. Do you think it's too much or not enough and are the pre made plans on the forum any good? I'll post a link of the one I have created. Thanks guys! http://smartcoach.runnersworld...artcoach/my_plan.jsp

Philly, Nice 5 miler today. I was a tad behind you at 7:47 pace. I don't think it was as easy for me as it was for you!

OF, Good luck with the LR this weekend.

paulg, good workouts with the rotten heat you're dealing with.

paul2432,best of luck to you on that upcoming 5k.

jay, If that guy could have held on to beat you I'm sure he would have. Nice run and good luck on the one coming up.

Me, Ran a progression 5:15 miler today. The temp was down to 68 degrees but the humidity was 100% Since it was overcast and foggy didn't really feel that bad. Humidity is supposed to blow outta here for a few days so it will be very welcomed. Looking for another 6 or so tomorrow.

Don - Great job on running all of those races and nice times! Especially considering you did them all in 4 days!

Dave - Awesome job with your runs! Really tough to keep around an 8 minute pace for that many miles in very high humidity.

nicb33 - Welcome to the thread and good luck at trying to get to sub-20!

Troy - Nice workouts at the gym, and great run afterwards! I had a question for you as well - With your marathon training, what will be your longest long run? My training plan has me doing a 22 miler about 3 weeks prior to my race as my longest run, but I wasn't sure if I should maybe do a 24 miler or something a bit longer to give me more confidence. Was just curious of what you think.

Philly - 99 degrees is crazy hot, even without humidity. Awesome job with getting all those runs in!

mjm - Great mile repeats in that 8 miler! I don't think I can even do that without the other miles thrown in lol. Good luck on trying to break 6 minutes for the mile!

paul - Welcome and good luck trying to get sub-20! 100k? Wow, I tip my cap to you!

OF - Really nice job on the 400 repeats! I'm usually in the 1:30-1:35 range, and to do 8 of them at the pace you did them at is impressive. Good luck on your 14 miler as well. I have only done 13.1 as well and I plan on doing 14 miles at the beginning of September as I ramp up my marathon training.

paul2432 - Good luck on your 5k coming up!

Jay - Nice job on the 5k! I mostly race against myself in races, and even if I pass someone, I don't feel bad about it, so I wouldn't worry about it.

As for me, played a roller hockey game Monday night, so some decent cross training there. On Tuesday, planned on doing an easier speed workout on the mill by doing just 2 X 1200m with 800 recoveries. Did a mile warm-up and then did the two 1200 repeats at 10k pace, and after I finished the 2nd one I did not feel good at all and had to stop before the cool down. My treadmill is in a spot in the house where there is no AC and just a fan, so I'm gonna need to do something about that lol. Still got in a couple of decent repeats. Yesterday, I did a 6 mile progression run that I did right @ 8:30 pace, which even though is not that fast, is better than what I've been doing, so I'm happy about that. It wasn't as humid as it's been and there was actually a decent breeze, so that made a world of difference.

I took today off and will look to do some speed work again tomorrow on the mill by doing a few 800m repeats (and will get the AC situation fixed!). Will do an easy 3-4 miles on Saturday before doing another LR of 8 miles on Sunday.

DavidR, I love those progression runs, one of my favorites. Good job bringing the end of that run strong.

mvallone, hey. I think you'll be more than safe going up to 22 in training. My friend whose run 5 of them, has actually ran up 24 before at about 3 weeks out. He likes to add 2 miles to his LR's each week until he gets up to 22-24 miles leading up to his taper. I'll be right there with him this time out so I'll know what it feels like to hit over 20. I've only run 2-20 milers so far and they don't feel too good. At least this time they will count knowing my marathon debut is in late October baring any unforeseen problems. Good luck with your training too.

jay, man that doesn't sound too pleasant for ya what happened at the track. I have to say I've never thrown up, "yet" from a run/workout. I hope I don't. Sorry the race course was confusing. Nice time nonetheless.

paul, nice job with the miles. Good luck with the upcoming 5k!

Of,nice job as always there on your side of town. keep up the good work!

Philly, you too hitting it hard as always. I get tired just reading your workouts.

ME:

I think we are all on the same page when it comes to this heat and humidity we are all facing and how it affects our runs/workouts. There's no doubting what humidity can make you feel on a regular run, and even more so on a speed workout. Case in point. Me and my friend met at the park for what was suppose to be a 4-5 mile repeat workout at slightly faster than 10k pace. We both felt good but it must have been the mugginess that we were experiencing that just made the first 2 or 3 repeats feel unbelievably hard. He's faster than me so after his repeat, he'll circle back to me on his recovery jog period. I had hoped to do at least 3 complete miles and possibly a 4th one depending on how I felt. That didn't happen for either us.

After two decent but very hard repeats, my 3rd repeat just fell apart. I just couldn't keep up the pace I was running at which was low 7's but it was kicking my butt. Both me and my friend were feeling it from the humidity. It wasn't so hot as it was humid. You think oh, 79% isn't all that bad compared to maybe 90%+, but it kicked our butts and decided best to call it a day. Neither me or my friend are ones to back down from a hard session, but sometimes you hafta to listen to your body and go with it. Total run was 4.16 miles.

I'm taking today off to help get me ready for my LR tomorrow morning early. After about a month of running in cirlces and trails at the park, my friend and I are gonna hit the open road and try to go for 14-15 long slow ones.

paulg- enjoy the weekend with some gorgeous, scenic runs. nice workouts this week.

paul2432- nice mileage increase. i've been trying to be between 40-45, but have had some things get in the way and have averaged 38 mpw for the year. should be back above 40 this week though. good luck next weekend.

jay- smart to pack it in on the workout. no point pushing things if it can be detrimental, a lot of runners are too proud to stop when they should. nice 5k too considering. really strong finishing mile. as for passing the 65 y/o, it was a race right? i'd hate it if someone backed off b/c it was near the end. what's the diff in passing someone at mile 1 or mile 3.09? especially if passing someone meant a time of 20:00 vs 19:59. besides, that would push me harder if someone was coming after me.

nicb- i'm unable to open the plan, but i remember making a smart coach plan before and wasn't impressed at all. honestly, i'd look into getting a book by mcmillan called "you (only faster)." it's a quick read, with premade plans, but tells you the point of each workout and how to adapt/adjust the plan to fit you and your time. it's only like $10 or $15. it's sort of like the jack daniel's book, but the short version.

david- haha that's funny about the 5 miler/pace. then you went on to mention you were doing 6 the next day. i followed up with 6.2 miles yesterday. nice run in that humidity.

mv- i wouldn't worry about doing a 24 miler. even 22 could be overkill. i think 20 is a nice cap, and perhaps doing 2-3 20 milers (a few weeks apart) is better than doing a single 22 or 24 miler. those extra few miles can really delay recovery. i know angel did 3 20 milers before his full marathon and ran sub 3. he also did about 10-12 of his 20 miles at race pace. granted, i've only run a full once and bonked out b/c of the heat so i could be way off. but i think the key is, if you're at mile 21 and on the verge of crapping out, i'd say call it rather than struggle through 3 more miles.

troy- nice workout in that weather and good to pack it in. again, sometimes we push ourselves too hard.

me- 10k total yesterday avg 7:46/mi, another 99 degrees, but humidity around 40% (good for this summer). about 8 hill pickups of 0.25-0.35 miles @6:45 pace throughout the run. decided to end crossfit for now to get some recovery in before i start my training cycle for a november half. i had another week and was planning on going today, but the legs just need to get some rest, so no running either today, which will end my 12 day streak. tomorrow will do 4 easy, then sunday the usual 12-14 mile LR. hopefully will end the week around 44-46 miles.

nicb - I tried Smart Coach, too, and found that the workouts themselves weren't too bad, but the paces weren't pushing me based on recent race times/goals. I don't have a ton of time to run, so I try to pack in as much quality as I can in 4 days/week. Here's what I do:

One long run (8-11 miles, but will be increasing gradually for my half in Sept.)

One progression or pace run (5 miles, typically)

Two speedwork days (this week I did a 3 mi Fartlek and 10x400m)

This has worked for me, but I used Smart Coach as a guide initially, and then got to the point where I was able to tap into past experiences to build my own plan. Tons of resources out there, so good luck finding the right one!

As for me, my first race of the year (sadly) is tomorrow, and it's a local 2 miler. Last year, I finished in 5th, and 1st in the 30-39 male AG. I really surprised myself with how well I ran last year, and I'm hoping to repeat as AG champ (I'm pathetically hypercompetitive). I think it's realistic, since some of the boys from the local XC team are running as well, and I'll be able to pace off of them like I did last year. 15 days from my first 5k of the year (it's a silly, hilly course), so tomorrow will be a good benchmark of how close I will realistically be to a sub-20 minute 5k.

On to the weekend everyone! I don't know about you, but sometimes I just feel wiped out by the week, and it really has nothing to do with the running.

I have to say I continue to be impressed by the workouts that people are doing in the heat and humidity. These days, I run in the morning and it is 65 to 72 degrees most mornings, with relatively low humidity, maybe 30 to 40% or so. Even so, when it gets over 70 degrees, I start to feel the heat.

I ran 8 miles this morning, with 5 in the middle at a tempo pace, averaging 7:30 pace. Not bad, but my legs felt tired and I had to push them a bit more than I was expecting. I was planning to do a progressive tempo for 4, but couldn't bring myself to speed up, so instead, I did 5 at the start pace. I think I am still recovering from the LR and the mile repeats this week.

I'll do a run tomorrow with my wife, and then a LR on Sunday, probably about 12 miles.

General question for the group:

What software are you using with your GPS watch? I have a Garmin, and am not really happy with the information I get from the software (I think it's the Connect, the non-internet version). I want to be able to do better analysis of the information, and it doesn't really permit me to select a segment for analysis. It is fine for the basic information from the splits and the overall route, speed, HR, etc. graphing.

I'm an engineer, so analysis and numbers are my thing! I want to be able to slice and dice my data a bit better than I am able right now.

Finally, I have to say that I think the group in this thread has a great, positive feeling to it. Helpful, friendly, supportive and collegial. A very fine subset of the larger RW forum participants. I'm glad I am able to participate here.