SULLIVAN (11/2/18): At what point is it legitimate to make sweeping negative generalizations about whole classes of people? I was brought up to believe the answer to that was never. But I’m beginning to feel painfully naïve about that.

In a way, we were brought up to believe that too. We recall being taught, as a high school freshman, that you should avoid "glittering generalizations," and especially negative generalizations, about groups of people.

This was especially true, we suspect we were told, concerning matters of "race," a unit of thought our brutal history dumps on our pitiful heads.

We'll augment the language in Sullivan's rule. People should avoid sweeping invidious statements concerning whole classes of people. It's a lazy, unhelpful way to play. Sully continues from there:

SULLIVAN (continuing directly): It’s endemic on the Trump right and in Trump’s own diseased psyche. Generalizations about immigrants, African-Americans, Latinos … well, you know the list by now. But it’s also percolating on the left. This week, CNN’s Don Lemon went there. He said we need to “realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them. There is no travel ban on them. There is no ban—you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white-guy ban. So what do we do about that?”

Challenged on this, he doubled down. On the facts, he insisted, he is not wrong about domestic terrorism...

Sad. "There is no white-guy ban. So what do we do about that?”

(The sound you hear is Fox News anchors knocking over tables and chairs as they scramble to air this tape.)

Sullivan continues from there. That said, we happened to see that casual presentation by Lemon in real time. Sadly, Lemon now casually plays it this way a fair amount of the time.

This seems to represent a bit of a flip on Lemon's part. In past years, as a weekend anchor on CNN, he was routinely criticized for taking the kinder, gentler approach in dust-ups concerning race.

By now, performing in prime time, he seems to have made himself over. We can't tell you why this is, but we don't think his new pattern is smart or helpful, except perhaps in the approaches to marketing preferred by his channel's suits.

(By the way, how much is Lemon paid by those profit-seeking corporate suits? Given our ballyhooed love of transparency, why can't we pitiful rubes be trusted with such information?)

Sullivan goes on to describe the problem with Lemon's "deliberately provocative" comments. In our mind, the principal problem lies in the fact that such remarks are destructive and transparently dumb.

Sully explains his own point of view. We'll suggest you review what he says. Then he offers this:

SULLIVAN: This impulse to generalize is human and I don’t want to beat up on Don Lemon for an off-the-cuff riff. But it seems to me important to keep the denigration of entire classes of people in check. It’s morally wrong, and it’s politically counterproductive. The issue is not the far-right terrorists’ whiteness or their maleness, but their extremism and psychology.

Indeed! This impulse to generate versions of Us and Them is indeed deeply human. All over the world, it's what our warlike species has always been inclined to do.

If there's a way to create an Us and Them, our "human" impulses let us find it. We find ways to build Us and Them out of every conceivable type of soil.

We humans! We find ways to split ourselves into tribes around race, religion, ethnicity, language, gender, region, age and class. On contemporary corporate cable, anchors and pundits are all too happy to toss off casual remarks which casually play on such distinctions.

Given the foolishness of the age, this casual conduct is now seen as brave. Cable stars who explore no issues of race impress us with their casual comments. Everyone's learning to do it.

Sullivan says he "doesn’t want to beat up on Don Lemon for an off-the-cuff riff." Ideally, we shouldn't want to beat up on anybody at all.

That said, Lemon's latest "off-the-cuff riff" was merely the latest of many. The man who used to play it one way now casually plays it another.

Our warlike species loves this game. Just a quick guess:

On corporate cable, it sells.

Also this: Last night, Anderson Cooper's minutes (roughly) 6-10 struck us as transparently and insultingly phony.

It was interrupt, interrupt, interrupt, interrupt, apparently with the intention of posing as bold and defiant. On the journalistic merits, we'd call it a "cable news" disgrace. On the brighter side, we'll guess that this type of performance art sells.

CNN hasn't posted a transcript yet, nor do we find any videotape of this transparently phony behavior. That said, how much is Cooper paid to do this?

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I don't watch Lemon or Anderson Cooper. However, it seems likely Lemon's point was that when white men commit acts of terror, those acts are NOT blamed on all white men. There is not a knee-jerk assumption that white men are dangerous, need extra screening through airports, should be kept out of the country, as there is for men of other racial and ethnic groups, even though there has been an increase in terrorist acts this year committed by white men.

Somerby takes Lemon at face value and misses that point, as does Sullivan (no surprise there). It has been a point of contention with this government that they have been reluctant to identify acts of terrorism committed by right-wing followers of Trump as terrorist acts, even though that is what they plainly are. Lemon may have stated that complaint poorly, but Somerby and Sullivan both know that is the point being made -- not some specious generalization about all white males.

Are you suggesting that "He said we need to “realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." has some innocent meaning?

And what if one said exactly the same thing, word-for-word, only with 'black' instead of 'white'? Would that be just as innocent, in your opinion?

2:18,I disagree with the last word only.Something needs to be done about "it", not "them". It's a problem for the entire country.

The other two parts of the statement are obviously true. White men ARE the biggest terror threat in this country. That should be obvious to any objective observer.Also, I agree that MOST of them have been radicalized to the right, for the same reason.

There are bigger threats to the country (climate change, mental health, and an ethos that equates pursuit of fame and money to pursuit of happiness, come immediately to mind) but as far as "terror" threats go, no doubt the biggest is white men.

See, this is the problem. Conservatives (and Somerby) make language an issue when it is the facts that are the problem. No one is accusing all white men of being terrorists. That complaint is a distraction while the right refuses to admit that members of the alt-right fringe that it tolerates are responsible for terrorist acts. Meanwhile, the right feels no compunction about branding all Muslims, or all Muslims from certain parts of the world, or all Muslim young men, as potential terrorists, only developing compunctions about stereotyping when the left supposedly does it (unclear that Lemon was even saying that).

This is a game that Somerby joins in wholeheartedly. Aristotle would have seen through it.

According to Wikipedia, Andrew Sullivan is a conservative political theorist and blogger (now retired) whose conservatism is rooted in his Catholicism. Sounds kind of like Somerby. Sullivan is known for being a big Hillary hater.

Once again Somerby claims to be liberal but singles out a liberal for an off-the-cuff statement in order to make common cause with a conservative writer in order to bash liberals generally and Lemon specifically.

There are so many things Somerby could write about if he were actually liberal. He might urge 20-somethings to go vote (as most liberals are doing this weekend). Or he might talk about the importance of this election, as Bill Maher did last night. Or he might single out some specific liberal issue -- there are so many. But instead he chooses to attack a careless framing by Lemon in order to agree with ANDREW FUCKING SULLIVAN!!! With liberals like this, who needs Trump.

Really though, so what? The guy can write whatever he wants. Somerby is obviously a liberal. You just can't handle what he is saying. There's no rule that a liberal writer can't bash liberals. You live under this weird fallacy that one can't or that one is not a liberal writer if one doesn't single out some specific liberal issue every time they write. Where do you get that? It doesn't make any sense at all. You think liberals have to always write positive articles about the Democratic party?

You just can't handle what Somerby is telling you. He is agreeing wth Andrew Fucking Sullivan that negative generalizations about groups of people are politically counterproductive. So he is speaking directly to liberal political success. Our negative generalizations about groups of people may be one of the primary reasons we get bashed next week, if we do which makes it important. But so many, like yourself, are not ready to see that which is strange because it's so simple and obvious.

No time to argue with trolls, but when you are behind the counter at the 7/11 and are approached by a child and an older adult, do you assume it is the adult who will pay, or do you ask the child for the money? If you ask the child, you're the dumb one. Generalizing is part of cognition -- Somerby never took a psych class so he doesn't know that. Don't be like him -- in the category of too dumb to hum.

"He is agreeing with Andrew Fucking Sullivan that negative generalizations about groups of people are politically counterproductive."

So true.BTW, what was the name of that guy who rode down an escalator to announce he was running for President, then quickly disappeared after bashing Mexicans and other immigrants? I think he might have been on a TV show years ago.

If you think negative generalizations about groups of people are not politically counterproductive and the subject is not worthy of discussion in these times and that a cabinet of political saboteurs is politically productive, we will have to agree to disagree.

I posit that being productive politically, versus being just "productive", is to get elected and put like minded people in positions of political power. Trump's negative generalizations about groups of people has been productive politically, if nothing else.

It was interrupt, interrupt, interrupt, interrupt, apparently with the intention of posing as bold and defiant. "

Yesterday was 11/2/2018. I watched Anderson Cooper from 6-10 minute mark and there were no interruptions until around 10 min, then one, then Cooper stated some opinions but I just didn't see a bunch of interruptions. Cooper amplified with the guest was saying but I didn't see him interrupt him.

So, I assume Somerby will say what he is talking about tomorrow, but maybe he has his dates or times wrong. I didn't see the phoniness and I didn't even see interruptions.

Because of media bias, it's not obvious to all that Blacks commit far more crimes than whites or Asians. E.g.,

It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau.

And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white.https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

Also, radicalized Muslims are obviously the greatest terror threat.

When liberals try to ignore these facts, they just look out of touch to most Americans.

Today a man killed two women and injured several others for no other reason than that they were female and he was an incel who believed women owed him sex, simply for being male. Those women are dead and it doesn't matter how scary radicalized Muslims are to you, they are dead for being women.

Do you think that black men, when they are stopped by the police, are more afraid of radicalized Muslims or of the police officer who has stopped them?

And you think I'm out of touch? Being diagnosed with some fatal chronic illness is a bigger threat to men than radicalized Muslims.

I'll bet you can tell the difference between Republicans and Democrats by analyzing a brief writing sample for signs of empathy (or the absence thereof). I'll bet accuracy would be close to 100% with no false positives.

AnonymousNovember 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM - I believe the number of whites killed by other whites is also around 7,000. Of course, there are many more whites, so blacks are substantially more likely to be murdered.

Evidently you don't care very much about thousands of black murder victims. I do.

I do not understand why Jews continue to overwhelmingly support Dems. Aside from Democrats welcoming antisemites into their party, Republican support for Israel has been far stronger than Democratic support. The contrast between Trump and Obama in this respect is enormous. Trump has done more than any other president to prevent attacks on Jews, including by cutting funds to the Palestinian Authority. Then there was Obama pointedly ignoring the antisemitic aspect of the massacre at Jewish deli in Paris vs. Trump's extremely strong words after the Pittsburgh synagogue attack. Furthermore, Jews are wealthier than average, so Republican economic policy should be more favorable to them. And, we've never before had a President with a partly Jewish family.

Nevertheless, Jews continue to overwhelmingly support Dems and oppose Trump and Republicans, making me a pariah in my own family. :(

David, are you saying your family is Jewish? At any rate, what about say, asking them why they support Dems, and maybe listen and try to understand, instead of spouting right wing talking points to them like you do here.

He might also ask a rabbi what Judaism teaches about how to live a good life in the eyes of God. Then compare that to the principles of the Republican and Democratic parties. Or just as a rabbi to tell him what someone living a religious life would say about how to treat migrants. He could then compare that to what Trump says and does.

Let's look at his list of reasons why he thinks Americans of the Jewish faith should support the fascist GOP party.

Every single item in David's "list" , while being complete utter bullshit, all relate to another country, not the country that we all are citizens of.

What did David forget to put on his "list"?

President Donald Trump issued a statement Friday marking Holocaust Remembrance Day, but notably left out any mention of Jews or the anti-Semitism that led to their slaughter in the mass genocide that took place more than 70 years ago.

The omission comes after Trump made Steve Bannon — who is accused of making anti-Semitic comments in the past — a top adviser in the White House, conducted a campaign that featured anti-Semitic dog whistles and attracted the support of the the "alt-right," a group that upholds white supremacist ideals.

Apparently this didn't make the cut on David's little "list".

I would suggest maybe one reason David hasn't thought of is that most Jewish Americans have a very sharp and painful memory of life under another fascist government.

If David is Jewish, I am the the Czar of all the Russias.

Go fuck yourself David. Haven't you volunteered to man the border for the coming invasion yet, fuckface? Don't you have some minority votes to suppress somewhere?

Dear Czar - Bannon is not an antisemite. He chose to work for a Jewish boss at Breitbart. When he headed Breitbart, he chose to expand it into Israel. These actual actions are much more significant than an estranged wife's accusation of an alleged wrong statement some time in the past.

Mention of "dog whistles" is ludicrous. First of all, liberals make up the meaning of these "dog whistles" on the spot after some political enemy has used some words. Second, consider the difference between using the ordinary English word "nationalist" vs. inspiring a mob to murder a Jew, simply because he's Jewish, as highly respected Democrat Al Sharpton did.

There is anti-Semitism on the left, of course, but this has nothing to do with Farrakhan, who is a Trump-supporting anti-Semetic reactionary. Demanding that The Left renounce him (more than it already has) makes about as much sense as saying that the left should renounce Clarence Thomas for his vote in Shelby County. We’re several steps ahead of you!

You continually conflate radical GOP extreme right wing support for the current extreme right wing Israeli government with support for Americans of the Jewish faith.

And Louis Farrakhan is in no way shape or form "of the left", and Maggie Haberman is a joke.

Ellison, the deputy chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), repeatedly attended meetings with Farrakhan while in Congress, according to photos and videos reviewed by TheDCNF and Farrakhan’s own statements.https://dailycaller.com/2018/03/05/house-democrats-ties-to-louis-farrakhan/

A group photo at an open function isn't a "direct tie" to anyone. What is Obama supposed to do? Walk out? If Obama or Waters attended a meeting organized by Farrakhan, that would be a different matter.

This is dirty and you should recognize what is being done David. When you post such stuff, you make it clear that you are a troll and not just a good-faith conservative. This is blatant propaganda.

If the head of the NRA attends a Republican fundraiser, that is different than if the Republican candidate attends an NRA meeting. It works the same way for Democrats.

A neo-Nazi who retweets Don Jr. is different than when Don Jr. retweets a neo-Nazi. The latter implies that Don Jr. reads and supports the neo-Nazi. In the former case, how could Don Jr. stop the neo-Nazi?

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