I can understand the removal of the statue, but I have really mixed feelings about the sanctions. What happens to all the current students at the school who are their on scholarships and who chose Penn State specifically for their football program? It would seem that they will now also become innocent victims and collateral damage because of Sandusky's crimes, and the cover-up that ensued --- and that just seems very unfair. The people running the program who were all involved in the cover-up should be fired and forbidden to work in collegiate sports ever again, but why should the athletes be made to suffer? Just seems like a whole lot of people are being punished due to the actions of a few.

CuriousJockAZ saidI can understand the removal of the statue, but I have really mixed feelings about the sanctions. What happens to all the current students at the school who are their on scholarships and who chose Penn State specifically for their football program? It would seem that they will now also become innocent victims and collateral damage because of Sandusky's crimes, and the cover-up that ensued --- and that just seems very unfair. The people running the program who were all involved in the cover-up should be fired and forbidden to work in collegiate sports ever again, but why should the athletes be made to suffer? Just seems like a whole lot of people are being punished due to the actions of a few.

The whole frikin legal problem that isn't being discussed is that it gets really messy when a Victim of a crime does not report it or press charges. You kinda can't report a crime for the Victim.

CuriousJockAZ saidI can understand the removal of the statue, but I have really mixed feelings about the sanctions. What happens to all the current students at the school who are their on scholarships and who chose Penn State specifically for their football program? It would seem that they will now also become innocent victims and collateral damage because of Sandusky's crimes, and the cover-up that ensued --- and that just seems very unfair. The people running the program who were all involved in the cover-up should be fired and forbidden to work in collegiate sports ever again, but why should the athletes be made to suffer? Just seems like a whole lot of people are being punished due to the actions of a few.

The whole frikin legal problem that isn't being discussed is that it gets really messy when a Victim of a crime does not report it or press charges. You kinda can't report a crime for the Victim.

Huh? That's not really a legal problem here. In fact, many of the victims did come forward and press charges -- did you miss the entire trial last month?

CuriousJockAZ saidI can understand the removal of the statue, but I have really mixed feelings about the sanctions. What happens to all the current students at the school who are their on scholarships and who chose Penn State specifically for their football program? It would seem that they will now also become innocent victims and collateral damage because of Sandusky's crimes, and the cover-up that ensued --- and that just seems very unfair. The people running the program who were all involved in the cover-up should be fired and forbidden to work in collegiate sports ever again, but why should the athletes be made to suffer? Just seems like a whole lot of people are being punished due to the actions of a few.

and were you not one of the guys who not too long ago was arguing against the pulling down of the statue?

and were you not one of the guys who not too long ago was giving paterno a pass?

It would be kind of amazing if Penn State beat the NCAA and shut the football program down for good and said what this nightmare has done has made the school realize that it lost sight of its focus, that is education, not football. Maybe all colleges would follow and over the next decade we would see a massive resurgence in intelligent dialog and a return to civility as the glorification of idiotic behavior and violence falls to the wayside.

CuriousJockAZ saidI can understand the removal of the statue, but I have really mixed feelings about the sanctions. What happens to all the current students at the school who are their on scholarships and who chose Penn State specifically for their football program? It would seem that they will now also become innocent victims and collateral damage because of Sandusky's crimes, and the cover-up that ensued --- and that just seems very unfair. The people running the program who were all involved in the cover-up should be fired and forbidden to work in collegiate sports ever again, but why should the athletes be made to suffer? Just seems like a whole lot of people are being punished due to the actions of a few.

and were you not one of the guys who not too long ago was arguing against the pulling down of the statue?

and were you not one of the guys who not too long ago was giving paterno a pass?

smartmoney saidIt would be kind of amazing if Penn State beat the NCAA and shut the football program down for good and said what this nightmare has done has made the school realize that it lost sight of its focus, that is education, not football. Maybe all colleges would follow and over the next decade we would see a massive resurgence in intelligent dialog and a return to civility as the glorification of idiotic behavior and violence falls to the wayside.

While ideal this won't happen.. the masses don't yearn for education, they yearn for entertainment.

smartmoney saidIt would be kind of amazing if Penn State beat the NCAA and shut the football program down for good and said what this nightmare has done has made the school realize that it lost sight of its focus, that is education, not football. Maybe all colleges would follow and over the next decade we would see a massive resurgence in intelligent dialog and a return to civility as the glorification of idiotic behavior and violence falls to the wayside.

While ideal this won't happen.. the masses don't yearn for education, they yearn for entertainment.

smartmoney saidIt would be kind of amazing if Penn State beat the NCAA and shut the football program down for good and said what this nightmare has done has made the school realize that it lost sight of its focus, that is education, not football. Maybe all colleges would follow and over the next decade we would see a massive resurgence in intelligent dialog and a return to civility as the glorification of idiotic behavior and violence falls to the wayside.

While ideal this won't happen.. the masses don't yearn for education, they yearn for entertainment.

is this then why some people were not even mildly upset with the raping of children? what a society we have become ...are becoming.

smartmoney saidIt would be kind of amazing if Penn State beat the NCAA and shut the football program down for good and said what this nightmare has done has made the school realize that it lost sight of its focus, that is education, not football. Maybe all colleges would follow and over the next decade we would see a massive resurgence in intelligent dialog and a return to civility as the glorification of idiotic behavior and violence falls to the wayside.

While ideal this won't happen.. the masses don't yearn for education, they yearn for entertainment.

Yup we spend thousands and thousands of dollars for our college education to yearn for entertainment.

I think its like what Roger Goodell is doing in the NFL to the New Orleans Saints with the whole "bounty punishment", hes setting a tone and an example to the rest of the league that says "this shit dont fly, if it happens, YOURE DONE." And I LIKE that. Its cutthroat and it ensures that this shit wont happen AGAIN

smartmoney saidIt would be kind of amazing if Penn State beat the NCAA and shut the football program down for good and said what this nightmare has done has made the school realize that it lost sight of its focus, that is education, not football. Maybe all colleges would follow and over the next decade we would see a massive resurgence in intelligent dialog and a return to civility as the glorification of idiotic behavior and violence falls to the wayside.

Glib, knee-jerk, and and shortsighted. There is no empirical evidence that football programs in anyway have made society less intelligent.

Not all college athletes are NBA or NFL bound. Many scholarship athletes are provided with an education they would otherwise not receive, and many go on to contribute (intelligently) to fields other than sports.

The revenue generated by football programs allows many schools to improve facilities and programs for their academic priorities.

Fact-free, reactionary analysis and ranting about the supposed evil of college football does NOT contribute intelligently to the discourse, incidentally.

smartmoney saidIt would be kind of amazing if Penn State beat the NCAA and shut the football program down for good and said what this nightmare has done has made the school realize that it lost sight of its focus, that is education, not football. Maybe all colleges would follow and over the next decade we would see a massive resurgence in intelligent dialog and a return to civility as the glorification of idiotic behavior and violence falls to the wayside.

While ideal this won't happen.. the masses don't yearn for education, they yearn for entertainment.

Yup we spend thousands and thousands of dollars for our college education to yearn for entertainment.

How do sports effect what goes on in the classroom? I'm all for the promotion of intellectualism, but I also think athleticism is about more than entertainment. Take the Olympics. They are are a testament to what humans are capable of, which to many is as relevant as how intelligent we are. Same thing with artists. Once they are seen as merely entertainers people start to gloss over how exceptional they are.

How do sports effect what goes on in the classroom? I'm all for the promotion of intellectualism, but I also think athleticism is about more than entertainment. Take the Olympics. They are are a testament to what humans are capable of, which to many is as relevant as how intelligent we are. Same thing with artists. Once they are seen as merely entertainers people start to gloss over how exceptional they are.From personal experience, both in High School and College, people on sports teams would disrupt classes, by leaving early, coming in late, and a few even harassed me because I wouldn't be their study buddy or let them copy my homework.

So, specifically:- Fandom & "supporting" sports teams creates an "upper class" of people who feel that they are entitled to more than others.- This entitlement is disruptive to learning.

How do sports effect what goes on in the classroom? I'm all for the promotion of intellectualism, but I also think athleticism is about more than entertainment. Take the Olympics. They are are a testament to what humans are capable of, which to many is as relevant as how intelligent we are. Same thing with artists. Once they are seen as merely entertainers people start to gloss over how exceptional they are.From personal experience, both in High School and College, people on sports teams would disrupt classes, by leaving early, coming in late, and a few even harassed me because I wouldn't be their study buddy or let them copy my homework.

So, specifically:- Fandom & "supporting" sports teams creates an "upper class" of people who feel that they are entitled to more than others.- This entitlement is disruptive to learning.

LOL, that may be the case in football where they can get away with being 'dumb jocks'. However, gymnasts are by far the smartest athletes anywhere. They often have the highest GPAs across universities everywhere in the US among collegiate athletes, ha! Hm, I can honestly say I've never met a gymnast or former gymnast who sucked in school. Gymnastics really teaches you how to budget your time, set goals for yourself, and figure out your priorities. I think that's why they almost always excel at school.

(Just bragging. Not a serious diss to football or anything, lol).

Anyway, money talks. I can't imagine any school dumping or suspending a profitable sports program.

....It would be hard to imagine a more frivolous violation of the rules — or one that could do less harm to the integrity of college sports. What’s more, Caltech turned itself in after a new athletic director realized that the practice of shopping for classes probably violated N.C.A.A. rules. Yet the punishment imposed on the school was severe: three years of probation, a postseason ban in a dozen sports, the erasure of wins and individual records that were gained with ineligible athletes, and more. Indeed, Caltech was cited for “a lack of institutional control,” which is pretty much the worst thing you can be accused of in N.C.A.A.-speak....

It's about time. So many good points made in most of the posts. I understand that innocent people should not be punished for the crimes of others. Paterno messed up and that is why the statue should be removed. It will be interesting to see what the NCAA comes up with in terms of the sanctions.

....It would be hard to imagine a more frivolous violation of the rules — or one that could do less harm to the integrity of college sports. What’s more, Caltech turned itself in after a new athletic director realized that the practice of shopping for classes probably violated N.C.A.A. rules. Yet the punishment imposed on the school was severe: three years of probation, a postseason ban in a dozen sports, the erasure of wins and individual records that were gained with ineligible athletes, and more. Indeed, Caltech was cited for “a lack of institutional control,” which is pretty much the worst thing you can be accused of in N.C.A.A.-speak....