The Goose, the Middleman, the Idolmaker and Gomer Pyle

I guess the moral of the story is: Never do business with someone who calls you by nicknames like "son"

Unless of course you are working with your dad.

Posted: 10 Dec 2007, 18:33

by modman

It really deserved to be a seperate thread, and checked with Clay on this. Have gotten past the shock, but always more of ein Aha Erlebnis for me

zj

No Problem

Posted: 10 Dec 2007, 21:15

by lrgrbt

Edited

Posted: 10 Dec 2007, 21:35

by tonys

I don't know who to believe!! They are both evil because they live in America!!!

Posted: 10 Dec 2007, 22:04

by estragon

A soap opera at its best!

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 00:59

by PurplePeopleEater

That's a story that every DIY pedal and amp builder should read. Awesome. Horrible. Entertaining. Frustrating. Eye opening.

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 02:10

by bajaman

...........and we still have not seen anything from both these guys - no schematics of the CJOD or BBOD ...........and, somehow, I do not think we ever will ( at least not from these two ex lovers )
bajamana

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 02:11

by bajaman

.......... sorry - i meant "friends"

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 02:15

by Mykkus

Wow....just....wow....

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 02:36

by Brian M

PurplePeopleEater wrote:That's a story that every DIY pedal and amp builder should read. Awesome. Horrible. Entertaining. Frustrating. Eye opening.

Although I do not think it is the typical experience for builders, I think no matter what you do you can learn from it.

In my old career I worked at a company that sold electrical equipement. Most people in that industry are very isolated from the other parts of the market place... I ran in to many situations where I was basically asked, or sometimes told to compromise principles. Often the pressure would come from the owner of the place I worked for.

The one time I gave in to all this we had a large sale hinging upon it. The junior salesman at the company (working below me at the time) had quoted some stuff that was really far out of his range of expertise.

The owner wanted me to talk to the customer (wholesale) and thier customer (contractor) and assure them that our bill of goods was going to work for them.

A few days later I end up out at the job site, standing there with the owner of the building, the contractor foreman, the engineer who was in charge of the electrical for the job, and a number of other people.

I assured them that the bill of goods we were supplying would work, and that there would be minimal down time...

Anways, the switchgear they were working on was obsolete, and I knew that the supplyer the Jr. salesman was using for this stuff often took short cuts. Electrically the stuff usually worked, but often it was rebuilt in ways it really wasnt every meant to be.

We had the stuff ship directly to the job site in a rush. It all gets there, and they shut the place down on the weekend to work on the electrical. They have an inspection scheduled for monday so they can turn everything back on and resume work.

The inspector comes in, and starts looking at the switchgear, and notices some things that don't meet code, and they are ordered to shut down all the electrical for that piece of switchgear (which essentially powered their whole building)

What happened after this was crazy... Somehow I ended up with all the blame, because I was the one who's opinion was respected, and my whole perspective on the industry really went down hill from there.

I kept telling my self that it wasn't my fault, but in reality, I could have just said what I really thought in the beginning. Instead my reputation was dammaged, and the Jr. Salesman (the one who was to ambitious to realize he had no business ever quoting that job) suddenly started to rise in stature in the company, and eventually look over my job.

That was a very very hard lesson learned for me. I still feel it was a situation i should not have been put in, but the truth was I was put in it over and over, and only gave in once, and that one time it blew up in my face.

Sometimes, in any career/job you will get pressure to do things you know just don't feel right. You have to make a choice. I suppose if it's a choice between feeding your family at getting fired it's even harder to make.

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 02:51

by seniorLoco

I suppose if it's a choice between feeding your family at getting fired it's even harder to make.

tell me about it.

Looks like i got to make a decision soon ...the last 6 years has just worn me out ....

Thanks for sharing Brian.

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 03:09

by Donnerbox

Well every story has three sides .... so when do we get the third one (the Truth......... and the schematics )

(this has nothing to do with Brians post btw )

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 03:24

by soulsonic

Donnerbox wrote:Well every story has three sides .... so when do we get the third one (the Truth......... and the schematics )

I thought Clay said that his thing was just a slightly modded TS?
We don't need a scheme for that. A good sounding TS build is a good sounding TS build - anyone can do that... I think that was the point he was trying to make - that there isn't anything special about the circuit that would make it wildly different from any other TS derivative.

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 03:27

by teller

soulsonic wrote:

Donnerbox wrote:Well every story has three sides .... so when do we get the third one (the Truth......... and the schematics )

I thought Clay said that his thing was just a slightly modded TS?We don't need a scheme for that. A good sounding TS build is a good sounding TS build - anyone can do that... I think that was the point he was trying to make - that there isn't anything special about the circuit that would make it wildly different from any other TS derivative.

No Problem

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 03:43

by lrgrbt

Hello again guys...

One last bit of explanation on this whole deal before I drift away and float back into the world of anonymity.

The ONLY reason I brought this response to this message board is because as long as I have known Mr. Jones anytime he had any sort of beef with anyone he would seldom go to that person directly and hash things out one on one. More often he would take them to task in an open and public setting. That was the case here. I was taught as manager of operations that if someone took you to task in a public forum you should deal with it immediately in the same forum.

When this whole thing spun up I tried to call him several times, Sent Emails etc. The only thing I did not do is go to his home. So knowing he was not going to talk with me directly I responded here. That way I knew he would at least read what I had to say.

Sorry to have bothered you guys with such things.

Sorry even more that a fellow I thought was a friend really wasn't at all.

Happy Holidays to all.

Peace, Over and Out,....

Bob

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 03:50

by The Rotagilla

soulsonic wrote:I thought Clay said that his thing was just a slightly modded TS?

Clay has stated before that the CJOD was a happy mistake that came about from trying to build a compressor. Yet after reading his side of the story I came away with the impression that the CJOD may be based on the TS. Either way the only one who knows for sure is Clay and I highly doubt he'll tell us.

Can we just put this whole thing behind us and move on? Jeez...what a bunch of yentas.

Re: The Only reason...

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 03:53

by teller

lrgrbt wrote:Hello again guys...

One last bit of explanation on this whole deal before I drift away and float back into the world of anonymity.

The ONLY reason I brought this response to this message board is because as long as I have known Mr. Jones anytime he had any sort of beef with anyone he would seldom go to that person directly and hash things out one on one. More often he would take them to task in an open and public setting. That was the case here. I was taught as manager of operations that if someone took you to task in a public forum you should deal with it immediately in the same forum.

When this whole thing spun up I tried to call him several times, Sent Emails etc. The only thing I did not do is go to his home. So knowing he was not going to talk with me directly I responded here. That way I knew he would at least read what I had to say.

Sorry to have bothered you guys with such things.

Sorry even more that a fellow I thought was a friend really wasn't at all.

Happy Holidays to all.

Peace, Over and Out,....

Bob

Thanks for sharing, stick around and talk stomps! it is free, we could all learn something and be one step closer to proper pedal engineers.

Like you said, Happy Holidays, maybe you and your friend will find you can put this behind you and move on, afterall it is just pedals!! How can something we step on be so precious?

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 04:02

by Nimbus Rodus

Hmmm....If I read the story right the first pedal Clay built for the "player" was based on a Tube Screamer. But, said player did not pick that one, he chose one of the other two misfit pedals which is what became the CJOD. It might be TS based, but Clay never does say....

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 05:24

by Greg

Nimbus Rodus wrote:Hmmm....If I read the story right the first pedal Clay built for the "player" was based on a Tube Screamer. But, said player did not pick that one, he chose one of the other two misfit pedals which is what became the CJOD. It might be TS based, but Clay never does say....

That's how I read it, and I got the impression it was based on an undisclosed DanElectro that he'd played with.

Posted: 11 Dec 2007, 05:40

by Nimbus Rodus

I know the "famous guitarist" that CJ speaks of, as I'm sure many others here do. I remember a post on TGP years ago where he talked about getting the CJOD, and that part of the story coincides with what CJ wrote here.

FWIW....

I've also read the Danelectro story, and it seems to fit in nicely with the tinkerer of cheap effects Clay considers himself.