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GeneralThe general chatting goes on in here.
That means talk about the LBA games and its world.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Thanks! Wow, would be so great to have LBA2's midis as well like that.

yeah imagine all the reworks we could do.

Have to say it though. Even with really quality libraries I've used: hollywood strings library from east west and orchestral essentials from projectsam. Both are like really great sample libraries for orchestra....how come it doesn't sound close to the lba sound? I mean, how is a sample library from 1994 and 1997 so much better sounding than stuff nowadays? Anyone remember the soundmodule Philippe used?
I mean, Ive tried importing the lba midi's, which contain the programming by Philippe, and put them in modern sample libraries. doesn't really work I tell you

Have to say it though. Even with really quality libraries I've used: hollywood strings library from east west and orchestral essentials from projectsam. Both are like really great sample libraries for orchestra....how come it doesn't sound close to the lba sound? I mean, how is a sample library from 1994 and 1997 so much better sounding than stuff nowadays? Anyone remember the soundmodule Philippe used?
I mean, Ive tried importing the lba midi's, which contain the programming by Philippe, and put them in modern sample libraries. doesn't really work I tell you

In my experience the sound of libraries relies heavily on how you work with it with various settings, ranges and even styles. I mostly work with logic and sometimes used the software-instruments for high-quality Instrumentals (to sing along) and especially the strings need some heavy work with a lot of layering and tweaking parameters like pitch-bend, modulation, expression, sustain etc. Brass and woodwind instruments are even harder, which is why I always adored the Oboe in LBA2's Desert Soundtrack (concentrate on the parameters of Volume, Attack and Vibrato and you get a glimpse of what is needed to make it sound natural)
Also tried some Kontakt-Libraries wich were in my opinion a bit easier to get to sound right but are expensive as f***.
Easiest library is always staccato strings, which I think is why we hear them so much in scores nowadays.

One important thing to know is that not all parts need to sound "realistic" or even "natural" in a whole Piece. Layering can hide lots in that regard. Take "The Empire": The legato-strings alone don't sound very much like real strings so Vachey layered Horns and Bass- & Pad-Synthesizers to blend it together. Even the main theme/melody is not only the (very good) staccato Violin/Viola but mixed with Oboe and a second String Voice. The later Violoncellos playing the triplets don't sound real at all but noone cares because the bind the rhythm together. Ultimate trick is to mix in some real recordings - which I don't think is done in LBA2's soundtrack.

So it's a bidirectional process, you need to find the right libraries/sounds for what you need and you need to know how to best let those sounds shine.

Do remember that he had access to state-of-the-art equipment at that time - the funder of Adeline, Paul de Senneville, made his money with the success of that world famous and highly successful pianist Clayderman (who became famous with Senneville's songs and thus they worked together).

With those millions in cash, Adeline was funded, and of course you can expect that prior to a gaming company, he had also a very expensive recording studio. Vachey mentions how great it was to work in such enviroment in one of his interviews.

Like leoboe mentions, do not underestimate the power of post-processing. Sample libraries are just a starting point. Automation, tweaking, mixing and properly MASTERING are just as important for that big studio sound.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Do remember that he had access to state-of-the-art equipment at that time - the funder of Adeline, Paul de Senneville, made his money with the success of that world famous and highly successful pianist Clayderman (who became famous with Senneville's songs and thus they worked together).

With those millions in cash, Adeline was funded, and of course you can expect that prior to a gaming company, he had also a very expensive recording studio. Vachey mentions how great it was to work in such enviroment in one of his interviews.

Like leoboe mentions, do not underestimate the power of post-processing. Sample libraries are just a starting point. Automation, tweaking, mixing and properly MASTERING are just as important for that big studio sound.

oh yeah i heard this composer just whistled the melody in his head and hired an arranger and pianist to work it out for him. What a way to compose haha.

Do you reckon Vachey also used a producer to get his sound like that? could that be the reason why after lba1 and 2 we didn't get to hear more cool stuff from him from that quality? I could never figure how he didn't produce more stuff like that if you are that good. Honestly I do not know of a better game soundtrack.

I think the main tweaking is in the sample libraries itself eh? articulation, and stuff like that. Don't think it's the mastering process really, as that is just getting all the tracks sounding at the same level.

I really should look into programming these kontakt libraries.... man!

Speaking off.. that studio he used...that's in 1994. Homestudio's now have state of the art stuff that's supposably just as good as what they then. I wonder if could figure out what sample libraries he used back then.

LOL! Some of the best sounding music records of the world were produced before 1994. Don't underestimate $10.000 gear - yes your fancy $50 2 input USB audio interface is more advanced technology than what they had back then, but we're talking about REAL quality hardware here, analog stuff can be extremely good sounding (and often better sounding than digital - specially the "cheap, home user" digital stuff). Not everything is the same, boutique items exist for a reason. Audiophiles exist for a reason.

Mastering and mixing goes way further than just adjusting volume levels. It will make your music pump and breath alive or just sigh out of boredom. Your tracks can just be loud... or they can be dynamic. Personally I fiddle a lot more with post-processing of sounds than articulation of samples, it's more gratifying.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Do you reckon Vachey also used a producer to get his sound like that? could that be the reason why after lba1 and 2 we didn't get to hear more cool stuff from him from that quality? I could never figure how he didn't produce more stuff like that if you are that good. Honestly I do not know of a better game soundtrack.

I've read every interview I could find of Vachey during all these years, and never heard a word about a "producer". Nor is any producer mentioned in the credits of the game. So I honestly have no idea what you are talking about...

But regarding why he never made such music anymore the answer can be simple: the same reason why there isn't any other game like LBA anymore. I am sure that if he had a cool project like that to work on again, he would compose great stuff. But, there wasn't.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

LOL! Some of the best sounding music records of the world were produced before 1994. Don't underestimate $10.000 gear - yes your fancy $50 2 input USB audio interface is more advanced technology than what they had back then, but we're talking about REAL quality hardware here, analog stuff can be extremely good sounding (and often better sounding than digital - specially the "cheap, home user" digital stuff). Not everything is the same, boutique items exist for a reason. Audiophiles exist for a reason.

Mastering and mixing goes way further than just adjusting volume levels. It will make your music pump and breath alive or just sigh out of boredom. Your tracks can just be loud... or they can be dynamic. Personally I fiddle a lot more with post-processing of sounds than articulation of samples, it's more gratifying.

I meant that mastering is often confused with mixing, I always thought the mastering side is supposed to be gentle, most of the work is done in the mixing side of things.

Do you really think the reason why lba sounds so good is because of postprocessing? Because in this case we do talk about lbas music which originated from digital sample libraries. So not sure why you are bringing up analoge vs digital and usb interfaces. Or do you mean that they used an analogue mixer vs in the box ?

I kinda lean more to that its not the exceptional soundquality but rather the performance of the music that suprises me considering that its all coming from samples.

Do you really think the reason why lba sounds so good is because of postprocessing? Because in this case we do talk about lbas music which originated from digital sample libraries. So not sure why you are bringing up analoge vs digital and usb interfaces. Or do you mean that they used an analogue mixer vs in the box ?

I said that because of this thing you said: "Speaking off.. that studio he used...that's in 1994. Homestudio's now have state of the art stuff that's supposably just as good as what they then." I strongly disagree a millionaire's studio could be compared to a common person's homestudio, just because of 10, 20 years advance in technology.

Of course LBA music sounds great because they are great compositions, with great samples (and I don't think he spent much time tweaking it)... but, the mixing/mastering is also flawless which makes them so attractive to our ears.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Well what we do have today for a few thousand bucks in vsts or hundreds of dollars would have costs millions of cash in 1994.

You know I once tried to mimick the old burg track but my pizzicatos were sounding crap. So I sent a sample of it along with the original to projectsam (the provider of the library). Turns out the samples had bad timing, but they also commented that the lba ones in the old burg dont sound real at all and that it sounds kinda synthy.

However....if thats true....gimme those samples ! Lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceGuitarist

I said that because of this thing you said: "Speaking off.. that studio he used...that's in 1994. Homestudio's now have state of the art stuff that's supposably just as good as what they then." I strongly disagree a millionaire's studio could be compared to a common person's homestudio, just because of 10, 20 years advance in technology.

Of course LBA music sounds great because they are great compositions, with great samples (and I don't think he spent much time tweaking it)... but, the mixing/mastering is also flawless which makes them so attractive to our ears.

Well what we do have today for a few thousand bucks in vsts or hundreds of dollars would have costs millions of cash in 1994.

You know I once tried to mimick the old burg track but my pizzicatos were sounding crap. So I sent a sample of it along with the original to projectsam (the provider of the library). Turns out the samples had bad timing, but they also commented that the lba ones in the old burg dont sound real at all and that it sounds kinda synthy.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.

Well what we do have today for a few thousand bucks in vsts or hundreds of dollars would have costs millions of cash in 1994.

True, although really good samples can still be quite pricy and also not always easy to get (the really expensive ones are often not even listed on the internet).

Quote:

You know I once tried to mimick the old burg track but my pizzicatos were sounding crap. So I sent a sample of it along with the original to projectsam (the provider of the library). Turns out the samples had bad timing, but they also commented that the lba ones in the old burg dont sound real at all and that it sounds kinda synthy.

Good example. That's why there is a Track-Midi-Shift-function in most DAWs that can compensate most of the time. And yes, the sound's are rather synthetic but when you embrace that sound and work with it (and combine it wit other sounds) noone will really care about that.

If you want to hear interesting game music from the same time as LBA2: Try "Croc: Legend of the Gobbos". Way shorter tracks with less complexity than LBA, but a very interesting use of (Leit)motivs and stilistics. And the sound is great.

Polaris: "And what is a guitar doing in the middle of an asteroïd anyway?"sgk: Think of it this way: it's like a message in a bottle. In our world, we put a message inside a bottle to protect it while it travels through the oceans to reach some other island. In other worlds, they put a message inside an asteroid to protect it while it travels through space to reach some other planet. In this case it is a gift, a guitar, rather than just a message.