Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

lol jigar jan, despite me saying why here and in my blog you still said "your expectations are too high" and "they are not Gods"! so ... in my books you saying that though knowing why I feel like that means you might not understand where I'm coming from! ;)

Oh rest assured I will be here discussing the episodes, but not the things on the websites!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Right guys, i've now seen it and my overall impression was "so-so". Not the epic opener i had hoped for, but neither a mass dissapointment.

My initial interpretation of this twin reality is that some ingredient has skewed the process Daniel envisaged. Most probably this is down to the killing of Jacob?! Pourya you were spot on with regards to that guitar case lol! what an absolute astrocity!!! the ankh of the dead?! I mean come on!!!! I love Lost's flirtations with mythology and things, but this is just one step too far, it's borderline ridiculous. Anyway, i remember we discussed some time ago a "3rd party" (the other others if you like), seem's we were right (in particular pourya). I wasn't overly enthused about the way they are presented though, like a rogue cult but without any real identity. What did you make of Desmond's appearance and the fact Jack remembered him. Is it down to Jack meeting him before the flight (as we know) or rather down to the fact Desmond has continually been able to transcend timeline and realities?! I was hoping to see Christian this episode but it appears his story will be explored further and is hinted at being quite central to the whole thing (particularly in the refresher eppisode aired in the UK prior to the new episode). I had hypothesised earlier that Christian had a role in bringing the Losties back to the island and i'm guessing that he was either recruited do so by either Jacob or Essau (sorry pourya i know you hate that name lol).

Anyway, those are the main thought's that i'm left with after the episode, but like pourya said i think it's best to avoid these minor details like the foot, the ankh (BS!!) and so forth that clearly have little relevance or even legitimacy in many cases.

Btw, i've spoiler flagged it but not sure whether it's necessary now that we've all seen it?!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

No need for spoiler tags Pedram jan when all three of us have seen an ep! I think you'll be the last each week so at least you wont have to tag yours!

To be honest I have tried to motivate myself to get engaged in the whole Des on plane thing and such stuff but the fact that I know that much of it is just to make things look mysterious and wont have any meaning doesn't inspire me! this alternate reality seems to be different, Hurley enjoys good luck so maybe Des never got to that island! The island was after all under water! Maybe des was a constant or in Jacks imagination!

What I don't like about the portrayal of the "Inner circle" others is that it looks like an episode from Xena or Young Hercules! All so clean and so cut! Like a dress up! A low budget fantasy series! A Chinese that grows planets? comeeeeeee on!lol couldn't they make it a bit darker and dirtier like outside the walls look like? something like temple of the doom in indiana jones! also lets pretend the ashes keep the smokie away, who goes round and under the temple but cant get inside! who the hell came then up with the sonar fence to keep away the smokie? I mean neither Dharma nor Ben's others, so who solved that problem? It doesnt add up! "help me" was it smokie asking Locke for help to go back? cuz Jacob certainly wasn't trapped! This ep gives an impression that Jacob knew about his death, that's why he wrote that (initial) list and wanted Hurley so bad that he visited him personally! So he knew he'd die and needed a medium? Ben asked why didnt he fight back! Now we know that Jacob basically threatens people! like in that letter or like Ben told in an episode that Jacob is not someone you wanna disappoint or cross! Was it Jacob that Huley saw or Smokie as Jacob since he walked and talked like Smokie's embodiments! The water in temple went muddy, the water behind Ben's closet is muddy and its where the smoke is summoned! Does smokie wanna go back to the temple for that water is his home?

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Just finished ep 3 now and though things happened all the time nothing really felt right and existing. only one line interested me, just like in ep 1-2 when smokie said he wanted to go home! In this one ...

we understood that the healing water makes the heart grow dark! so thats why Ben became the person he has become!

I feel the show is being plagued by overacting and underacting this season, mainly thanks to the writers who provide such banal dialogs! There is only so much time left to the finale and it's getting wasted ...

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I will be watching this ep tonight. I'll no longer watch through Sky as the constant commercial breaks really irk me lol!

Well i have to say some of the acting in the first eps was atrocious. Particularly the Sawyer/Juliet scene(s)! I mean, why didn't they leave their parting as it was in the s5 finale?! Although mellodramatic, it was emotional and fitting.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Agreed pourya jan, i dont know whether they were feeling abit rusty after the break and lost some of the connection, but it was definately lacking in genuine pathos. Felt like i was watching a bad episode of british soap "Eastenders" lol, terrible! Even the subtle re-introduction of the epic main soundtrack theme during the scenes was unable to conjure any sort of authenticity. Fox and O'Quinn definately showed no signs of this though and were on top form as always. I really do respect them as actors of the highest calibre.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Omega

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

anyone who recalls where Kate was when the white-out happened? The reason why I ask is that supposedly they travelled through time though remained on same spot! thats why Juliet was impaled in the shaft! why was Kate on a tree?

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

lol that's a very good point pourya jan. I really don't recall where she was in that final S5 scene. Either way she most definately wasn't up a tree!! My interpretation of it was that perhaps she took high ground to try avoid drowning?! After all, we know the island is doomed to be swamped..

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

lol yeah but did destiny put her on a branch when removing the higher ground?lol in that case it was one reckless destiny when it comes to Juliet who btw was placed closer to the ground than when before the white out! haha

the problem with the double reality thingy is that most people don't even care about the never-happened one but rather see it as a flash-fantasy while the on-island reality is the continuation of the whole thing! It's not as engaging as the flashbacks and forwards!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

you do? I absolutely couldn't care less about that khar-to-khar scenario to be honest since it doesn't make any sense, just tries to place individuals we know in their paths while not playing with the idea of "change"! Its like the early seasons' crossing paths though those were calculatedly executed in a way we thought there was a grand scheme and master plan! But these just seem to be put there for the cool-factor! I would have bought it if it kinda showed us how certain choices led to other things but ep 3 just shows that its nothing but a farce!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Aa well my impression is based solely on the first ep. I don't know why, but it kinda took me back to previous seasons and has potential to be revealing and pivotal in a retrospective way if executed well.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Right, finally caught Ep3 and to be perfectly honest i found it probably one of the weakest episodes of the entire show!!

I don't know whether it was intended or not, but isn't Saeed supposed to be a former republican guard interrogator? So why is he literally crying like a baby when they interrogate him?! Unless of course it was inteded to show he is not infact the true Saeed. Pourya jan, i think you're right with regard to the pool having that side-effect. Although, why would they use it initially if they knew the outcome? Does it wholly depened on the individual and their circumstances perhaps?!Also, it was remarked that the pool had changed! I think it's safe to assume that Claire was also subjected to this process too, and unsucessfully! The question is, did Christian himself subject her to it or did he provide refuge upon her rejection? I think what we are seeing is clearly an ongoing war between good and evil that's balance is very fragile, but paramount in the control of the islands powers.

So far i've been put off by these character reprisal/cameos that i guess have absolutely zero relevance to the plot. As i had originally predicted, these appear to be for only nostalgic and stylistic purposes and nothing else.

What is encouraging though are the small hints in this "alternate reality" in terms of character recognition. We saw Kate clearly recognised Jack and i'm starting to wonder whether this whole thing is going culminate in a massive reveal at some point which will give us a clearer understanding of the situation.

All in all, this episode was extremely slow as Ahmaad said. This is again to be a short season though, so i hope this is purely a tactical manoevre to ensure all pieces are in the right place for a fantastic and frantic finale.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The thing is that this episode is not that slow per definition! But it feel like that since not much of interest happens while we wait for it!

Pedram jan I think that Saeed crying is just a stupid character misportrayal, like the way Kate was portrayed so gullible accepting that mechanic's offer to change clothes in his office and did so with absolute no worry or hurry! Does it match the outlaw Kate's mentality? Kate who in same reality outran the cop and security? not really!

Regarding the pool I honestly think its a mess up, a retcon going wrong! the thing is that Claire was seen along with Christian in s3 but was Christian the smokie? in that case, and suggesting that the muddy water is smokie claiming, then it makes sense that smokie claimed Claire and it went wrong and she followed Christian the smokie! But again I think that the clashing details is just a matter of continuity shortcomings and not intentional! Otherwise if ben was put in water with knowledge that he wont be the same anymore then that means that the water does that by default so why are they affraid of saeed not being the same anymore? it just doesnt add up!

What pisses me off is that we will most likely not know anything more about Locke's past, why he as child drew smokies, why he rejected his own item for Richard (which in retrospect doesnt make any sense that Richard did that test since it was presented as a ritual for the finding of the leader while later it changed to Locke asking him to visit him!) and what about what he saw in s1!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Pourya jan, forgive my naiviety, but do you think it's possible that these character inconsistencies are actually intended. I mean, when we hear Lindeloff and Cuse talk about focussing on the characters themselves, it makes me wonder whether infact it is very much a paradoxical complexity of character. Jack is a perfect example (though executed far better!), in the first 3 seasons we see an overly-zealous sceptic leader. Now we see a jaded, almost impressionable character, willing to accept the islands "special powers" over a scientific explanation. I think you yourself, made a valid reference to the Ying and Yang elements that seem to forge the spine of a greater moral story imbedded within the complexity of the plot. I think this element is becoming more and more apparent as the show progresses, particularly with the power-play at work in the current situation. I guess my question is, what is it that is causing these character irregularities. Is it a general progression in relation to situation and story, or are we seeing a more complex "what if" scenario (like the "alternate reality") playing a more pivotal role?!

Couldn't agree more with regards to Locke's backstory. It just doesn't add up. In earlier season's we bare witness to Lockes "special connection" and now we here the smokie refer to Locke as a nobody. There are so many things i would like to see adressed, but with so little time left and looking at the direction of what we've seen so far, i doubt half of these will even be considered

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Pedram jan, I think that all my comments and conclusions prior to this season can now be regarded as invalid and irrelevant! I myself will do that! Since the rules and logics of the show has changed! Yes, back then it all made some sense, the tiniest change in details were significant but now its all "finger painted"! Bold strokes! yin and yang in the macro term, not micro!

If both Saeed and Kate had changed in the alternate timeline I would have seen it possible, but saeed is still in same reality! and the same saeed was tortured by Roseau! I think its a matter of bad character portrayal!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I think that's the thing pourya jan. I don't regard the majority of the cast as particularly good actors. Rather the fantastic plot and dialogue in earlier seasons was able to carry relative mediocrity in the acting department. With the exception of the fabulous Fox, Emerson and O'Quinn of course. Now that the dialogue/script is getting weaker, the bad acting is coming to light. I think you mentioned earlier that some spoiler suggested a different direction in the last 2/3 of the season. Was there any suggestion as to what that would be?!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The official "spoilers" were that from 2/3 forth the story would be on one timeline only! I didn't continue reading the unofficial spoilers. But as I predicted they are taking things over the top and to me its whats killing the show! Prior to this there was a blurry line between probability and improbability, you couldn't be sure about what it was you were seeing! Now its even MORE than obvious! The whole fantasy/sci-fi overtone is just too much, takes away all the mystique!

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

in ep4 we get a lot of answers, but not all to my satisfaction! The most lame is the explanation about what the famous numbers actually stand for! Its right there with Charlie's guitar case! There is this "cave" scene in this ep which also shows how low the production quality has become! The writings are just as badly done as the hieroglyphs in the temple, as if a kid had done them! No finesse in details at all!

This ep was overall the best so far this season, in particular when it comes to the smokie! at the moment his history and identity is the only thing in lost that keeps my interest.

btw, I was thinking about something! The dharama village is still in ruins just like the time when Sun and the pilot were taken there bu Christian. In fact they are still in that time, its just Jack on co who have traveled forth to Sun and co's time! Now the questions is, judging by the imploded hatch its current time, now what has ruined the dharma village? The incident or bomb certainly couldn't have, cuz then the hatch wouldn't have been built! Just doesnt add up.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The writings are just as badly done as the hieroglyphs in the temple, as if a kid had done them!

Well from what we've seen this episode, this could well have been the case lol! Can we assume it was Jacob or Aaron perhaps? Why could Sawyer see him and not Richard, is it based on affiliation to white or black?

This was the best episode of the season so far for me. The return to the main rivallry/destiny themes, really intrigues me. Again, i found the "off-island" story to be very interesting, i'm pretty sure we are witnessing something more than just a what-if scenario. There are clearly elements within their lives that cognizant of events on the island. Also it was hinted that Locke is not merely the body of the smokie, but actually represents many of Lockes attributes and personality, "Don't tell me what i can't do" we hear both pre and post mortem Locke insist.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I think that Richard wasn't able to see the kid cuz he disappeared even before Smokie's eyes!

well they said that smokie can no longer change face after been too long in Locke's body and his existence might be affected by Locke's mental and physical weaknesses! Like when he fell, just like Locke! and said the same thing! they are now doing with the smokie the same thing they did with the show, its basically lost in miniature! They blow up the mystery beyond proportion yet will fail to deliver when it down to wire! In the end smokie will end up being the least exciting of all possibilities! so far fans online have given so many theories about lost's mysteries that are light years more interesting than the actual answers lost has got! I now understand why JJ Abrams never opened that box of his and wish they had kept the show's mysteries all the way, ending kinda like Carnivale. While ending a chapter leaving some lose ends and open door for mysteries and theories! It seems like they are now determined to answer everything and they suck at answering!lol

btw, dont you think that its strange that Illiana buried Locke while not her companions whom she cried over?lol

I loved it when Fahey broke the fourth wall, as they say, and commented the show's weirdness!