General Assembly this Friday

Agenda for General Assembly Friday 18th November
Proposed Amendment to the Initial Statement

It was agreed by Process on Tuesday evening that this Friday’s General Assembly should be dedicated to holding a debate on following proposed amendment to the initial statement of Occupy LSX. This amendment ( pasted below, in attachment and at http://titanpad.com/XQg1sPM0zZ) was put together by the national politics working sub-group on real democracy, the state and people’s assembly sovereignty.

Everyone is welcome to participate in organising the debate and commenting on the statement in advance.

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Proposal on Real Democracy and Assembly Sovereignty

The National Politics Working Group sub-group on the state, real democracy and people’s assemblies has produced the following statement for consideration by the General Assembly on Friday 18th November.

Following point 1* of the Occupy LSX Statement we propose the following insertion:

“What is needed is a democratic alternative to the political-state system. This alternative must be built by people’s assemblies across the country, to facilitate [a new constitution guaranteeing]:

(a) full social and political participation
(b) a new and popular democratic sovereignty
(c) a common, structured political economy that delivers social equality and well-being for all”

It is proposed this insertion be linked to a call for the formation of people’s assemblies in neighbourhoods, workplaces and education establishments across the country, and for a day of action in support.

* 1. The current system is unsustainable. It is undemocratic and unjust. We need alternatives; this is where we work towards them.

This is exactly what is needed. Direct democracy. Thought is needed in how to make it scalable… i have set up a blog to discuss this very issue… the idea is based on using random samples to make decisions, just like how juries are sampled from the public to make justice decisions. Have a read if you like…. samplocracy.wordpress.com

That is having ready our communication internally and externally and progress on the task groups reporting weekly to the GA for approval. We don’t have the minutes updated and is not possible to debate on its content. It’s neither possible to make online suggestions for the next agenda. It time to fully implement consensus on 14/11/2011 at the GA

The Federal Reserve, the bank of england and other central banks are not a government institution but a private central bank owned by a handful of major banks and bond dealers. As such, it is a cartel owned, controlled, and essentially for-profit driven, not by the people of the United States but, instead, by the banking industry’s ruling elite. This oligarchic setup generates the most costly, debt-based, money system and greatest conflicts of interest in the history of the world.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered… The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”

Thomas Jefferson

Yet, in this crisis, for the first time in my memory we have more people now realizing the real nature of the problem – and so considering the very idea of a public central bank and returning to a Constitutional setup. Despite the massive debt and interest set upon the public the very malady-causing institution remains private and without audits of either institution or its mega-rich and powerful owners. To complete the coup, members of its own fed-owning institutions (Goldman-Sachs, et.al.) serve as “our” Treasury Secretaries in what is a massive conflict of interest and ongoing effort to forestall any public interest or power in their system.

As with any real reform, it takes outsiders to first broach the issue and then courageous legislators, journalists and media types to discuss the possibility and reach the people. But have you ever seen a debate or read a thorough discussion of a public central bank in your newspaper or in the major media?

Today the time is ripe and this seminal issue is emerging. Like Holocaust deniers, however, there are those who pretend a public central bank is somehow not possible or advisable, and so they run from the topic and even seek to punish those who pursue the issue. Yet their arguments fly in the face of those who wrote our Constitution and purposely gave the money creation powers to Congress, the people’s body – so we, the people, would not be buried in interest-bearing debt, bailout costs, and enslaved to bankers for the worlds livelihood and advancement.

Centuries of planned “panics,” depressions, and recessions – all of which have caused immense enrichment for the few and immense loss to the nation and costs to future generations – have resulted in mind-boggling levels of interest bearing debt, inflation, and currency value destruction now bringing the world to a financial armageddon.

“A private central bank issuing the public currency is a greater menace to the liberties of the people than a standing army…We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.”

Thomas Jefferson

“Central banks were supposedly the guardians of money. Yet, they have created the biggest liquidity bubble in history.”

i agree climate change very important issue ….they are addressin it with this group(: https://www.facebook.com/pages/LSX-Occupy-Energy-Equity-and-Environment-Group/283451725018389 nice blog btw! you are very right…we need to reach out to the poor and those who are more in need of a better society than we ,the lower middle class to a large degree , technically are. It is very Orwellian is it not…..the common people need to be educated but are too busy earnin a crust and bein entertained by game shows and the promise of possibly winnin the lottery one day , to find much time or energy for thinkin about the woes of the system in much detail or depth. of course this is a VERY big generalistion!! and if it sounds patronising to anyone who is from a poor background it is merely because of my noneloquence!/:

The GA agreed to update the Occupy London LSX statement on Friday with a tenth demand , put forward by the EEE group:

8. The present unjust and exploitative economic system pollutes our land,sea and air, is causing massive loss of natural species and environments, and is accelerating humanity towards irreversible global climate change. We call upon individuals, organisations and governments to co-create a positive, sustainable economic system that benefits present and future generations.

I read on your home page under the Proposed Amendment to the Initial Statement: “(c) a common, structured political economy that delivers social equality and well-being for all”
I have worked in social justice/wellebing for a decade and feel that you are missing some tricks, though you are moving in the right direction.
(1) You – and other “occupy gatherings” should be thinking of uniting behind a single symbol that can be regarded as a timely alternative to the Peace Sign. If b/millions of people start to speak with one voice, commentators will stop saying that you have plenty of grievances and few solutions. Such a united front would have almost endless applications across a huge number of problem areas that would lift the tone and effectiveness of your movement.
(2) Such a symbol should have a methodology at its core. I propose such a symbol called the “tocamu”, the meaning of which is revealed in my illustrated novel “The Toucan Feather”. The symbol I propose is an ideogram that contains the secret to wellbeing/social justice. I donated 25 prints of the illustrations to your library tent last week if you want to see some of the illustrations (some are on free standing bookcase in centre/front of tent.
(3) The reason for a wellbeing-focused initiative is: (a) our wellbeing is more important than anything and lies at the core of the present problems. The govt cuts/economy are only damaging our wellbeing. (b) people with good wellbeing think and act differently which has major social, economic and political relevance.
Please visit tocamu.com where you can read the summary and philosophy on the about page. There’s lots more info there.

The grown-ups amongst you might want to read the following blog post, which, although it deals with the protest across the Atlantic, applies equally well to the London protest, and is very insightful and well argued:

i totally agree! and by waiting until u were Occupyin before doing this ( gettin some goals in place) u have shown true democracy in action. Occupy had to start ‘from scratch’ with just a bunch of likeminded individuals before issuing demands otherwise it would not be truly democratic!

Our 10 demands are a start, and working groups are developing their ideas. Come down and help!

1 The current system is unsustainable. It is undemocratic and unjust.We need alternatives; this is where we work towards them.
2. We are of all ethnicities, backgrounds, genders, generations,sexualities dis/abilities and faiths. We stand together withoccupations all over the world.
3. We refuse to pay for the banks’ crisis.
4. We do not accept the cuts as either necessary or inevitable. We demand an end to global tax injustice and our democracy representing corporations instead of the people.
5. We want regulators to be genuinely independent of the industries they regulate.
6. We support the strike on the 30th November and the student action on the 9th November, and actions to defend our health services, welfare, education and employment, and to stop wars and arms dealing.
7. We want structural change towards authentic global equality. The world’s resources must go towards caring for people and the planet, not the military, corporate profits or the rich.
8. The present unjust and exploitative economic system pollutes our land,sea and air, is causing massive loss of natural species and environments, and is accelerating humanity towards irreversible global climate change. We call upon individuals, organisations and governments to co-create a positive, sustainable economic system that benefits present and future generations.

9.We stand in solidarity with the global oppressed and we call for an end to the actions of our government and others in causing this oppression.

i think this person is missing the point somewhat. but some of the things they are suggestin may well be do-able ..like gettin one thing u want to be done as a campaign and then initiatin that campaign with all your energy, to get ONE thing changed that will actually make a difference. However, these things do not apply to Occupy who are doin something different. I was tryin to explain to someone else who is in the educated part of the99% but who is also critical of the movement, why Occupy cannot hold up the banner of socialism, but she dont seem to be gettin it. And yet her views and knowledge would doubtless be welcomed if she went to a general assembly…..but Occupy cannot hold up an already established train of political thought! it would alienate anyone who was not in that political train of thought already i believe and could be dangerous . It is a shame i think that there are folks who are ‘on our side’ so to speak, but who are not gettin what Occupy is about.

Go back to the article, read it slowly, reflect on what it says. It’s extremely insightful.

Some rambling thoughtlets…

Calling for ‘people’s assemblies’ around the country shows not only an astonishing level of naivety but also massive hubris, and ignorance about how communities are in fact already (and have been for centuries) organised on this ancient island.

Representative democracy evolved because for the most part people are relatively inarticulate, and are not skilled at negotiating their way around complex sets of ideas. One might make a comparison with fraud trials, many of which these days do not involve a jury as they are far too complex to be grasped by someone who does not have expertise in the field. A fully consensus-based system is possible, but only in a radically simplified version of the world. One which no-one would genuinely ever want to live in.

If your movement continues to fetishize the leaderless, consensus-based approach then unfortunately it is doomed.

When I was 12 I was reading Nietzsche. I studied philosophy for 4 years at university, then later did a Masters and a PhD. Ideas were my thing. I loved them. Unfortunately I discovered, as I grew older, that most people don’t like ideas. They are not interested in them. I still like ideas, but they no longer own me. What your movement in its present form implies is that people must like ideas, even if only for the moment, until the other side of the revolution. That’s a big ask.

“One might make a comparison with fraud trials, many of which these days do not involve a jury as they are far too complex to be grasped by someone who does not have expertise in the field.”

I shall retract that, the bill which attempted to introduce it was eventually defeated in the Lords. My general point is not harmed, though.

I have said that fetishizing consensus and leaderlessness will be your movement’s ultimate undoing. In order for any peaceful political or social movement to move forward and be effective it has to be flexible and adapt, not just to events but in terms of the degree to which it is willing to accommodate processes familiar to its opponents. But cheap talk about ‘collective responsibility’ and ‘democratic sovereignty’ means very little in the end, because the ‘decisions’ arrived at through consensus are not owned by anybody. Nobody has any real stake in them. A General Assembly is no more a person than a corporation. In the end, though, only people make decisions. So ironically for a movement seeking lasting change this obsession with consensus makes for an extreme short-termism, with long-term strategy still confined mainly on the placards.

While Socialism may well be a redundant political and economic philosophy, please do not reject the entire history of political philosophy in favour of re creating a new polity on the back of an envelope…
In essence, you are working with the same dynamics as Athenian democracy over 2,000 years ago, the debates of The Levellers after the Civil War, social contact philosophers of the Enlightenment etc please do not reject out of hand what these ideas may offer.
I paraphrase, in that those that do not learn from the lessons of the past, may be condemned to repeat them.

brilliant stuff!!! i knew u must be goin to gettin around to this at some point…there wouldnt have been any point in rushin it eitha …..u have established urselves and got ur camp up and running to a very good degree and everyone knows what is what and the public who passby are largely well acquainted with their welcome to participate in such debates!! i am very impressed and tempted to come down myself to take part!:(:(:

Having attended the GA last Saturday I would like to say how impressed I am.
Real democracy is action.
If only all those so-called representatives could have witnessed it.
The proposed amendment has my full support.
We need people’s assemblies throughout the world!

This is something very important and I support the proposals. We tend to think that having the ‘mother of parliaments’ entitles us to sit back and think that we have democracy. We don’t. The body politic is like any physical body it requires, exercise, a good diet and physical challenge if it is to maintain its fitness.
We face an unprecedented challenge of climate change, economic crisis and rising levels of inequality. The systems we have are still important but they are not up to the job.
What I have seen of the way decision making is occurring within the Occupy Movement gives me real hope that we can develop democratic systems that bring out the best in us not the worst. The right to be heard and involved is coupled with the responsibility to respect others, to seek genuine consensus and to participate. I don’t see this as an alternative to representative democracy but it does pose a constructive challenge. This is a chance for evolution rather than revolution and it has the potential to make the structures through which we govern ourselves stronger.
We desperately need a better form of democracy as the only alternative given the crisis we all face is destructive cycle of recrimination, fear and violence.

The real point about democracy is that only democratic control of the economy will deliver real change. If we do not control our economic life, and maintain this fictitious separation between politics and economics, then real power will always lie with the capitalists – i.e. the ruling class that own the bulk of the wealth.

You can have all the reforms of the election system, the way parliament works, the expenses system, you can have recallable MPs and all the various gimmicks that have been thought of over the years, but if the people do not collectively and democratically control the economy, then they are powerless.

In some ways, some of Occupy’s general meetings etc. are an anticipation of the kind of working class democracy we need, and are very healthy even though as time goes on they will probably evolve and become more flexible and sophisticated. But they are also a bit of a premonition or anticipation of what could be done in terms of socialist democracy in society as a whole, how the economy could be democratically planned, etc.

There are many examples of this kind of thing in history, from the Paris Commune and the early days of the Russian revolution, to the Spanish Civil War (Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia is well worth reading, and Ken Loach’s film Land and Freedom is pretty good on that too).

But we have to aim at democratic control of the economy. And not just national economies, but also the global economy. A tall order you may think, but not if this kind of movement can go global. Its already showing signs of that!

Those are the kinds of issues that are worth thinking about when we discuss what kind of democracy we need.