2017-W American Buffalo gold Proof coins available May 11

The U.S. Mint will begin accepting orders for the 2017-W American Buffalo 1-ounce gold Proof coin (product code 17EL) at noon Eastern Time on May 11.

The American Buffalo gold Proof coin was the first 24-karat gold Proof to be struck by the Mint. The obverse and reverse designs are based on James Earle Fraser’s original Indian Head / Buffalo nickel designs. The obverse bears the profile of a Native American with the inscriptions LIBERTY, 2017, the initial F (for Fraser), and the mintmark W (for the U.S. Mint at West Point). The coin’s reverse features an American buffalo, also known as the bison, with the inscriptions UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, E PLURIBUS UNUM, IN GOD WE TRUST, $50, 1OZ., and .9999 FINE GOLD. Full specifications are as follows:

Denomination

$50

Finish

Proof

Composition

99.99% gold

Diameter

1.287 inches (32.70 mm)

Weight

1.0000 troy ounce (31.103 g)

Edge

Reeded

Mint and mintmark

West Point (W)

Each American Buffalo 1-ounce gold Proof coin is displayed on an adjustable platform in an elegant, matte-finish, hardwood presentation case. A certificate of authenticity is included.

The gold Buffalo Proof is the next-to-last item currently listed on the Mint’s product schedule; it is followed by the annual Uncirculated Set (17RJ) on May 17. Mint News Blog is watching for updates to the schedule and will post them as soon as they are available. ❑

@KC&SO – Didn’t you hear about the new AUE, American Uranium Eagle coming out using the Peace Dollar design and being minted at Carson City? The rays coming out of her head represent the “glow in the dark” effect of the radiation. You will be able to use this coin in the dark when you are fumbling for change at the soda machine. The pricing grid is still being developed for the proof version, but will fluctuate with electricity demand and be based on the value of the carbon credits created by the use of reactive fuels. This will also allow the government to reduce the spent fuel stockpiles, like they did with the silver stockpiles beginning back in 1986. 🎇💰😎

Keep Calm and Squeak On -It doesn’t take much to make a simpleton laugh.

Baldwin is engaging me and asking many questions of me, all the while avoiding my direct questions and trying to figure out what I analogies I am making and what point I’m trying making. Almost as if he answers, he’ll be somehow trapped. Since he’s scurred, I’ll answer for him. It’s quite clear that:

Sunday elections are better than Tuesdays… if you want MORE participation, especially of the workers and students, i.e., more Democracy

Tuesday elections with no National Holiday are better than Sundays… if you want LESS participation, i.e., less Democracy.

Yes France is Liberal. France votes on Sundays. The Liberals have the CORRECT position about voting on Sunday. France is BETTER in this aspect

We vote on Tuesday. This is not a liberal position. It is the WRONG day to vote. We live in the only advanced democracy that makes it more difficult to vote. The US is WORSE in this aspect.

I think anyone who collects coins should have a gold proof coin in their collection if possible. Do some research online and find some designs you like. Then maybe go to a coin show and search for them there. as sometimes pictures don’t do the coins justice. Make sure to give our proof Buffalos and Eagles a look and in the end buy what you like. My only suggestion is to get a 1/4 oz. or larger as it is easier to see the design.

Yet, I think it remains an open question about whether increasing turnout would change the direction of American politics in an appreciable way.

Working class voters are continually tricked into voting against their own economic interests. We see this all across the South, where generally speaking the Democrats would expand the social safety that more people in the Bible belt happen to take advantage of, then people in the richer Northeast and West coast. Yet, the state houses and congressional delegations from those states are reliably Republican to an overwhelming degree.

It also seems to be true that the working class voters who put Trump in the White House might not be getting what they thought they bargained for. But this is a more unusual case.

I am interested in the developments in Kansas, where the voting electorate is moving to the left after the Governor’s grand experiment in trickle down economics has almost universally been considered to be a failure — and a big failure at that.

I wish it were true that increased electoral participation would speed up these cycles, and there is no question that small swings in voter turnout favors Democrats. But even those turnout levels in midterm elections are below 50%. I think the experiment of what would happen at 100% voter turnout will never be run, for good or ill.

Buzz K – I agree with all that. I’m not even sure participation would increase if elections were held on a weekend or holiday, just know that’s the way it should be. Some countries have compulsory voting, I’m not in favor of that. My point is that using the word “liberal” as a pejorative is silly. Sometimes, as in this particular case, the Liberals have the right policy. It is the GOP that often tries to restrict access to the polls. That’s the wrong policy.

@SK — Yes, I also agree that either (1) making Election Day a national holiday OR (2) changing Election Day to a weekend is an experiment that we can, and should, run. I favor holding it on a weekend, because technically you have two Election Days (primary and general) but having it be a national holiday also has the benefit of calling attention to the fact that we are not at work because it is Election Day!

It is the GOP that often tries to restrict access to the polls. That’s the wrong policy.

This is patently false statement. You’ve been drinking the Mainstream Media Kool-Aid.

And – in regard to “students” finding it difficult to vote on Tuesdays: If you have been paying attention you will know that “students” seem to be available for whatever protest the Circus brings to town. They can drop all their “studies” at a moment’s notice to riot and rage against free speech, so why wouldn’t they have the time to vote?

@ Yes But… – Like Baldwin referring to a shorter work week, you reveal your lack of concern for less restrictive voting by mentioning that students have time to protest. So what? Sunday is better than Tues. Period.

You toss out words like “patently false”, “msm”, and “Kool-Aid” but offer no facts. Any fair observer of politics will find that the GOP deploys a variety of voting suppression tactics with varying success .

I agree, bob r., but…at least with the Proof or RP you get a different finish. Feels like you really get shorted when all you get for your extra money is a lousy W with what seems like the same finish as the bullion. Was going to say that I usually see US bullion at over $50 and often at $70 but a quick search shows AGEs at spot + $30

While you and I won’t pay hundreds more, there are dealers who will. Not sure about Buffs but if you have Proof AGE singles or sets with box and papers that you’d like to sell, shop them around and you very well might be surprised at what you can get out of them.

KC&SO – Thanks for your input and thoughts. For a laugh I did a live chat with the USM about the lack of releasing the product schedule. As you could imagine it was like I have three heads as far as Louis was concerned.

Voting on Tuesday is a major pain in the A**, especially when I have to get 2 young kids to and from 2 different schools on time on top of my normal work day.

Google claims that it’s really due to tradition, and horse drawn carriages back in the 1800’s –

In 1845, the United States was largely an agrarian society. Farmers often needed a full day to travel by horse-drawn vehicles to the county seat to vote. Tuesday was established as election day because it did not interfere with the Biblical Sabbath or with market day, which was on Wednesday in many towns.

… Right or Left, it’s time for a change. Weekend voting would be great.

@So Krates… I made no engaging comments to you in the previous thread. I simply stated that I didn’t believe that the liberal country France would elect Le Pen and that is was a “resounding defeat of populism”. I believe cagcrisp was the one who stated it was a resounding defeat to populism… not you.

With that you then took to trolling with your queries about Sunday and Tuesday voting etc… your continued postulations on the voting rights furthers your agenda.

I’m conflicted with the 10oz Queen’s Beast. I still haven’t picked up the 10oz Kookaburra yet, and judging from the videos the thickness of the QB is closer to the Lunar coins than the thick Kooks. The thickness of the 2oz QB compared to every other 2oz’er on the market sets it apart from everything else out there right now.

I’m a little stretched thin with the number of options on the market right now, but a 10oz QB with the same relative dimensions as the 2oz coin would have been irresistible.

We shouldn’t be poisoning this nice coin blog with polemic politics but someone needs to point out that half of all voters have a below average IQ, and getting more of them to vote would not improve the results. It would make more sense if only people who pay taxes could vote. Otherwise 51% of the people can vote to take away stuff from the other 49%.

@Kevin, “wasn’t the curved Baseball Hall of Fame coins released during 2014? Those offerings were a huge sales hit that year. I’m shocked that the overall profit margin in 2014 was so low.”

The mint has various line items for breakdown. My comment was ‘specific’ to the line item for Silver Coin Products. There is a specific line item for Commemoratives and in 2014 the numismatic net margin for Commemoratives was 8.4%…

You know as well as I do that we can’t prosecute this issue here so I just cut to the finish. It is clear that you just regurgitate the “conclusions” of those who present you with one-sided information. But just to play along, here is a link to the New Black Panther voter intimidation scandal of the 2007 election. Which party/political persuasion do you think was behind all of that, hmmm?? Actual, documented, physical intimidation – and yet everyone walks.

There are two things that fair-minded people want in regard to voting:

1. That the individual is qualified to vote, i.e. s/he is of age, a citizen of the USA, alive, not voting more than once in an election, not household dog or cat, etc.

2. That the individual actually is the person s/he claims to be – hence identification of some sort.

What do you object to in those two items above? Most of what you read as objections to these reasonable safeguards are political smoke and mirrors which attempt to mask the fact that there is cheating going on which primarily benefits one party.

Gold prices have pushed to a seven-week low in late-morning action Tuesday.
A rally in the U.S. dollar index to a two-week high and weaker crude oil prices on this day are bearish “outside market” forces working against the yellow metal. Also, a rally in world stock markets today is keeping investors away from the safe-haven metal. June gold was last down $9.90 an ounce at $1,217.60.

Thanks Dustyroads for your feedback.
Your 5422 coin, I have found a few coins that looked liked that. I thought they were stamped with worn dies ? I most weeks will search up to $100 worth, most $50 bags in my area will yield avg. 20 wheat , 5 Canadian, one dime in five $50 bags and 35 % copper (1981-1959). I do find some error, but to be honest I don’t know all the errors . I do follow the Cherry Pickers guide but have many coin that do not relate to the book. The coin I posted was one that most odd, flaking copper at the rim and hard to read , I weighed this coin at 2.52 g. that should be normal for a shield. Will post more when found now that I can take better pictures, won’t be as embarrassing as the photo of the rim of pres. silver metal. I know many people were talking about them and never heard of them being classed as error.
Again, Thanks

Recently I bought some silver bullion coins from SD Bullion. They had a low price compared to a couple of the larger distributors all things considered. I had a very good experience and order was for a little over $500 and had two day shipping. Now I am thinking about some gold bullion coins but before I do I am looking for any good or bad input you might have about this company.

Got a mailer from “Danbury Mint” offering my birth year coins, cent through half dollar in a free handsome display case! They even pictured the coins for my birth year in a case with my name on it! The price wasn’t so obvious on the flier, but there it was in the text, she uno money now, just 3 monthly payments of $35.60. So $99 plus $7.80 shipping for coins worth about $12. (They aren’t unc or proof, just circulated coins from any year from 1935-2016.) Well, now the US Mint doesn’t seem like such a rip off after all.

I wonder how many of the Philadelphia Minted Silver Eagle boxes were opened and that can not be certified as being from Philly…I would say probably quite a few. We as Coin Collectors and Authors need to do a better job at getting the right information.

@Gary not Dave- I was asked to write about this and simply reported what is known. Some of you don’t seem to have taken account of the fact that, as my article, and Coin World reporting, have stated, the mint has confirmed the serial number system that the grading companies identified, which reveals where coins where struck. I am not saying anyone should or should not buy these coins. Just the facts, not alternative facts. The point is you can argue about whether someone should pay these premiums, but the mint has confirmed all the info. through the FOIA about mintages and how to identify where coins were struck. Earlier on there were a lot of comments about how the TPG’s were guessing or something. That is not correct.

@DaveC- I’ve used SD bullion a few times for larger orders without any issues. I can’t remember anyone here complaining about them. The Northwest Territorial Mint has come up and no doubt most avoid them but, I have no issues with them. I had a issue with Provident Metals some years ago but, they have improved the service. They were not updating what was out of stock on the website and causing shipping delays of 2 to 4 weeks on my orders.

The Douglas “P” puck was the LOWEST Launch week for a Normal weekly opening of All “P” pucks. This is the 37th “P” puck and non were worse for a Normal opening. Now we’ve had some lower sales numbers but those were not fora Normal weekly opening.

How Bad was Launch Week for the past 3 “P” pucks?
3
How Bad was Douglas? Well…It was 4% Less than Effigy
How Bad was Effigy? Well…It was 2% Less than Fort Moultrie
How Bad was Fort Moultrie? Well…It was 10% Less than T Roosevelt

I find it surprising that Melvin can move 74K silver dollars. As Louis predicted, the lions probably help. Why not just suspend the gold commem coins for a while like they did 100 years ago and just mint $1 and .$50 coins? No one wants the $5 90% gold commemoratives any more. The primary market is bad and the secondary market is terrible. Like in crop rotation, they’ve got to give that field a rest.

With returns of around 1000 in 4 weeks, the Douglass P puck could drop even further. I understand the low P puck sales, probably do to unexciting designs and long series and high markup over spot. But the low bullion puck sales is a little more surprising. I guess bullion demand all around is very low right now even for the lowest markup items. All the stackers must have enough finally.

Anyone want to guess on the opening sales of the 2017 proof Buffalo Gold? Might be a good year to buy this one.

When ragging on something – try to get it in perspective.
“How Bad was Fort Moultrie? Well…It was 10% Less than T Roosevelt”
I am okay with some of your points, but when you take a very good looking and selling coin, that many would consider one of the nicest, you can’t really compare it to Fort Moultrie.
This is like comparing FS gold Kennedy to FS gold Lou Hoover.

I wish they would reprise fractional Buffallos. While I like the Gold Buffalo coin, the larger size feels like a medal vs a coin to me. I own the mint’s 2001 D & P silver version. Personal opinion. I’d love to own something more like the original size of a nickel, in gold. And more affordable, despite the premium over melt. I had a chance to buy an 08 half ounce MS70 for $900, but I hemmed an and hawed and lost the chance. And now those are worth more than the $900 bucks. Oh well, next time. If I were just gathering a gold stockpile to prepare for the apocalypse, the 1 oz Buff is nice but I don’t have that kind of money. So…Zombie feed.

Lions Club International is promoting their coin on their home page.
Boys Town coin program is no where to be found on their site with a quick search.
Perhaps they are looking to a higher power to move their coins.

cagcrisp – I see the UMS threw us dogs a bone an issued their sales numbers but they did not want to spoil us with a product schedule going past 05/17/17 LOL.

I also noticed in my own spreadsheet the 16EG 2016 Am Eagle Silver UNC 1 oz with a negative 1,646.
Now that is unusual, having that many I would guess returns on that item this late in the sales cycle
Just odd!

@Old Big Bird, we had a Negative 2,699 on the Same item w/e 04/23/17. It is strange to have that many returns this late in the game. Maybe someone is looking for something specific and not telling the rest of us what they are looking for…

Revenue, Sales units and Revenue/Sales unit for the past 10 years for Numismatic Mint offerings…

Revenue…
2016 $413.0 million
2015 $453.2 million
2014 $504.5 million
2013 $512.4 million
2012 $481.2 million
2011 $721.7 million
2010 $413.1 million
2009 $440.0 million
2008 $557.2 million
2007 $551.5 million

Sales units…
2016 4.2 million
2015 5.4 million
2014 5.7 million
2013 5.6 million
2012 5.6 million
2011 7.3 million
2010 6.5 million
2009 8.0 million
2008 11.1 million
2007 11.4 million

As you can see Sales units have dropped considerable over the years vs. Revenue. High $ Gold items have bailed out the Mint’s revenue and profit stream as overall Sales have continued to decline.

What happens to the Mint when Gold sales Revenue starts to decline? We will soon find out

Unless things Change between now and the end of the run for 2017 we are on pace for the following:

Lowest All time Proof 1 oz. AGE
Lowest All time Proof ½ oz. AGE
Lowest All time Proof ¼ oz. AGE
Lowest All time Proof 1/10 oz. AGE
Lowest All time Uncirculated Commemorative Gold
Lowest All time Proof Buffalo (pure speculation on my part)

To keep up Revenue with a declining customer base and declining year/year sales the Mint has little options but to do limited gimmick runs and that dog only hunts for so long until you turn into a Low Mintage Wonder/High margin Mint…

Personally, to pay a premium for the “P” ASE is ok if you ‘need” it but how beyond a slab can it be verified, the regular ASE & mint #’s are falling.. IMHO the mint has a perfect storm po’d customer base, poor economic situation, overpriced (vs. $pot) offerings, poor designs & poor management. Add in a dwindling sales base & the mint is just treading water on numismatic sales. THe ’16 burnished ASE returns are quite odd, expecting a price drop? Maybe they traded them for 1 ’17 High Relief……..talk about sad this will be on the website until 2022 and by then we know what happens…. Soylent GReen is PEOPLE!

Not convenient to get to the polls on a Tuesday? Vote absentee. I’ve been doing it for years. Plus, may states have early voting (similar to absentee but not technically the same thing).

Voting on weekends? I assume some people would have a problem with it, including those Americans who still “cling to their Bibles” (and Old Testaments). I know it may seem old fashioned, but for some people Sunday (and Saturday for some) is still set-aside for other things….. Plus, many people would claim that the weekend is their time to travel, unwind, etc. There will always be an excuse for people who can’t be bothered to vote.

Back on topic – the Buffalo gold ounce looks nice but I am not willing to pay for it.

@cagcrisp – Are your numbers for calendars or fiscal years? Love the data, thanks for posting. Things are going to get ugly for the Mint this year. Not sure what they are going to do if their profit goes negative.

PD was a great idea when it was cheaper, now it’s pricey almost up to Plat! Palladium bullion coin, forget the Mercury let’s see a Flowing Hair a la 1792, then we’ll be buyers w/a mint markup…….I was going to get more ‘oi6 burnished ASE but the return #s are scary…why?

A joke: A rabbi, a Hindu priest, and a politician went hiking. Night fell and they were exhausted. The hotel on the map was nowhere to be seen.

They knocked on the door of a farm and asked if they could spend the night.

The farmer said, “Of course, but I only have a small room with two beds. One of you will have to sleep in the barn.” The Hindu priest said, “I need no material comforts. I will gladly take the barn.”

The rabbi and the politician were settling in when they heard a knock on the door. They opened it to find the Hindu priest standing there. …………………. “So sorry, my friends, but there is a cow in the barn, and I cannot sleep beside such a holy animal.”

The rabbi said, “No problem, my brother. I’ll take the barn.

The Hindu priest and the politician were settling in when they heard a knock on the door. They opened it to find the rabbi standing there……..
“So sorry, my friends, but there’s a pig in the barn, and I can’t sleep beside such a filthy animal.”

The politician said, “OK, let it be remembered that I sacrificed my comfort for the greater good.”

The rabbi and the Hindu priest were settling in when they heard a knock on the door………………………………………… They opened it to find the pig and the cow standing there!