So is it okay for me to make fun of Chris Benoit since the guy continues to be insanely un-over outside of Canada? I finally got Smackdown this past week and the crickets were the only things making any noise when Benoit came out...

This show really pissed me off. I mean really REALLY pissed me off. After several weeks of doing the right stuff (pushing new guys) they fall back on doing all the wrong things again. Me thinks I'll give Raw another 2 month long hiatus like I did after WM18.

Could someone explain any GOOD that went on last night? I would love to see someone spin this shit, really I would.

Hah...hah...hah...hah! YA SCUM!!!Krankor: The Man, The Myth, The Legend

So is it okay for me to make fun of Chris Benoit since the guy continues to be insanely un-over outside of Canada? I finally got Smackdown this past week and the crickets were the only things making any noise when Benoit came out...

I'm thinking the low crowd noise might have something to do with him wrestling Albert for the umpteenth time this year.

It goes to show that the wwf will go lenghts to try and get someone over if *they* want them to be over. RVD gets just as good a crowd reaction as anyone not named The Rock. But the higher ups are not giving him a main event push. Benoit doesn't get much of a crowd reaction and he's not getting a main event push. So we have two internet darlings both at each end of the spectrum. Neither of them getting into the main event picture.

Goldberg, Nash, Brock, and HHH are all guys with varying crowd reactions. They are all getting or will be shoved down our collective throats because management says so.

Bottom line is crowd reaction has no bearing on who Vince and co. are going to push. It may help a worker move from velocity to smackdown. But when it gets down to who's going to be the stars of the company, the fans opinion really doesn't seem to matter anymore.

(edited by Santa Sangre on 8.4.03 1635)The Lightning won the division!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by VenomThis show really pissed me off. I mean really REALLY pissed me off. After several weeks of doing the right stuff (pushing new guys) they fall back on doing all the wrong things again. Me thinks I'll give Raw another 2 month long hiatus like I did after WM18.

Could someone explain any GOOD that went on last night? I would love to see someone spin this shit, really I would.

Rock was good, Christian was good, the main was good, Nash was ok, Goldberg was pretty good, backstage stuff was fine, Bischoff/J.R. was good, the French guys were ok, Goldust was good (backstage), nice to see them working the Kane/RVD/Dudleyz/Morely/Storm angle.

There was NOTHING wrong with the show last night. This shit doesn't need any spinning. So...uh...Shut up and stop watching the show if you're not going to. It was fine.

So is it okay for me to make fun of Chris Benoit since the guy continues to be insanely un-over outside of Canada? I finally got Smackdown this past week and the crickets were the only things making any noise when Benoit came out...

I'm thinking the low crowd noise might have something to do with him wrestling Albert for the umpteenth time this year.

And the differences between Benoit's crowd reaction and A-Train's crowd reaction are a) Benoit gets cheered in Canada and b) um, I think that's it.

As for the Triple H part of the discussion, he could lose every match for the rest of his career and people would still find reasons to hate him. I'll leave it at that.

So is it okay for me to make fun of Chris Benoit since the guy continues to be insanely un-over outside of Canada? I finally got Smackdown this past week and the crickets were the only things making any noise when Benoit came out...

I'm thinking the low crowd noise might have something to do with him wrestling Albert for the umpteenth time this year.

And the differences between Benoit's crowd reaction and A-Train's crowd reaction are a) Benoit gets cheered in Canada and b) um, I think that's it.

As for the Triple H part of the discussion, he could lose every match for the rest of his career and people would still find reasons to hate him. I'll leave it at that.

-Patrick

(edited by PowerPB13 on 8.4.03 1734)

Looks at Title of Thread: RAW Thoughts. Ponders when A-Train and Benoit became members of the RAW roster.And before the Trip defense police come after me, he's actually not even in the Top 5 of people I dislike on RAW at this point: Steiner, Nash, Jeff Hardy and the other two should be obvious top Trip.

There is only one man left to save Vince McMahon and the WWF/E. Where have you gone Greg Gagne, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

This may be a minor Raw thought, but this has been bothering me for a while, and since the women's matches seem to always get good reviews, I thought I would mention it.

Trish Stratus's finisher absolutely sucks (it looked particularly bad last night). And the thing is, unless my memory if failing me, it didn't use to suck. When did her finisher change from a springboard bulldog to an 'opponent lifts me up so my feet can touch the top rope and then the opponent can spin and fall while I just hang on' bulldog? Didn't she at least use to start the move in the middle of the ring and actually run toward the ropes and jump a little bit? Or am I remembering it different than how it was?

At any rate, as it is performed now, I actually think just a plain ol' bulldog would be more credible as a finisher. As it is now, it's just too painfully obvious that the opponent is doing all the work, and all the suspension of disbelief can't change that.

I was 100% expecting Nash to come out as Diesel so it was no shock when the horn blared and Nash stumbled on out. The more I think about it, though, I really wish he had come out to Wolfpac music. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense for him to use it, its Kevin Nash's real music damnit!

Originally posted by Mr ShhUnfortunately, I couldn't list every single segment of last night's broadcast. Maybe next week's show will be 100% perfect.

Originally posered by Excalibur05There was NOTHING wrong with the show last night. This shit doesn't need any spinning. So...uh...Shut up and stop watching the show if you're not going to. It was fine.

Originally posted by Mr ShhUnfortunately, I couldn't list every single segment of last night's broadcast. Maybe next week's show will be 100% perfect.

Originally posered by Excalibur05There was NOTHING wrong with the show last night. This shit doesn't need any spinning. So...uh...Shut up and stop watching the show if you're not going to. It was fine.

Well, on SmackDown, Benoit is constantly mentioned as Angle's equal. And a contender for the WWF Championship. And a helluva guy. And Canadian. And a former WCW Champion. Y'know why? Subtle push. Van Dam doesn't even get THAT.

Originally posted by Freeway420Well, on SmackDown, Benoit is constantly mentioned as Angle's equal. And a contender for the WWF Championship. And a helluva guy. And Canadian. And a former WCW Champion. Y'know why? Subtle push. Van Dam doesn't even get THAT.

"Angle's equal" as in "has competitive matches with Angle but Angle beats him clean anyway"? I've only recently gotten to see Smackdown again, so I'll let you know if I start seeing this "subtle push" you're referring to.

Well, if they don't learn from the ratings slump, then they'll get cancelled and that's that. If they're too dense to learn from their own mistakes, despite the obvious downturn in business, then do they really deserve to go on existing?

I finally agree with you on something here. I honestly don't know how many times someone can say this, but if you don't like the product don't watch. Just don't come here and bitch and moan when it seems the majority of people enjoyed the show and you just want to nit pick.

Originally posted by HrdCoreJoeI finally agree with you on something here. I honestly don't know how many times someone can say this, but if you don't like the product don't watch. Just don't come here and bitch and moan when it seems the majority of people enjoyed the show and you just want to nit pick.

Originally posted by Excalibur05Pretty much, yeah. The show has been excellent the past two or three months.

You both MIGHT have a point here if...1) If I hadn't said the last 4 or 5 Raws were excellent and enjoyable in the previous "Raw Thoughts" threads and 2) If I hadn't posted within this very thread "After several weeks of doing the right stuff (pushing new guys)..."

Thus, my original impression of the "Fedayeen McMahon" is correct. I am only allowed to comment on a show if it's 100 percent, balls to the wall, approval of everything Vince and Co. ever does.

Because I say one RAW is godawful after spending over a month praising them on this board, I'm instantly marginalized as some "bitter wrestling geek" because heaven forfend anyone bitch about anything the WWE does anymore.

Originally posted by PowerPB13[quotemid"Angle's equal" as in "has competitive matches with Angle but Angle beats him clean anyway"? I've only recently gotten to see Smackdown again, so I'll let you know if I start seeing this "subtle push" you're referring to.

It works because the feud was carefully booked so that before Angle won the title, Benoit OWNED him on Smackdown. He beat him at Unforgiven clean and at least once more on TV.

Not to mention they've traded wins in years past as well in the previous incarnations of their feud.

1) If I hadn't said the last 4 or 5 Raws were excellent and enjoyable in the previous "Raw Thoughts" threads and 2) If I hadn't posted within this very thread "After several weeks of doing the right stuff (pushing new guys)..."

So the ONLY way that the show can be good is if it "pushes new guys". Oh. Right. Wait...No. Besides, it's not like Christian got bunches of screentime, or Morely/Storm were made to look pretty strong, or Hurricane got involved in the Main event, or that alot of screen time is being used to put over the tag and women's title divisions, or that Booker pinned HHH clean. Right?

Thus, my original impression of the "Fedayeen McMahon" is correct.

Political humour. OH! Biting!

I am only allowed to comment on a show if it's 100 percent, balls to the wall, approval of everything Vince and Co. ever does.

Oh, that's bullshit and you know it. Not two months ago, it was damn near a sin to ENJOY the show. Now that the show is genuinely enjoyable, you're expecting people to just accept your panning at face value?

Because I say one RAW is godawful after spending over a month praising them on this board, I'm instantly marginalized as some "bitter wrestling geek" because heaven forfend anyone bitch about anything the WWE does anymore.

No, I guess what we're saying is that you must have been watching some OTHER Monday Night RAW, because you're complaining about an entertaining show.

Furthermore, you didn't just "complain about one RAW" after months of praising it. You dragged out the old, tired "This show sucks. I'm going to quit watching". Why do you feel compelled to tell us, first of all, and second of all, if they've put together months of good shows, and you enjoyed them, then why the hell does that change after one supposedly bad outing?

So just to keep score...can't bash Triple H,

Well, you CAN, but know your audience before hand. It's unlikely that you'd be bringing anything new to the table, and past that, it's VERY unlikely that you're going to change anybody's opinions because of it. Which kind of renders the whole arguing thing pointless.

can't bash Raw,

Again, yes you can. But your bashing should probably be justified, or at least justifiable. And, it probably shouldn't contain a cliche overly dramatic statement.

can't bash Stephanie,

Why not? I thought that was an internet past time.

can't bash Nash,

Wow, you sure did compile a list of Internet faves didn't you? I doubt many people would care if you bashed Nash, but you should probably save it until he's at least had ONE match.

can't bash Hogan,

When he's one of the best things on Smackdown? And not taking anything away from anybody? Why?

can't bash Vince,

You have something NEW to say? Let's hear it.

can't bash Goldberg,

For what? What has he done in the ring/on TV in the WWEyet for you to bash?

can't bash Shawn Michaels.

For what? For putting on a tremendous match at WrestleMania? For putting on some good promos? For existing?

Ive never been to this particular Arena, but for the last two Wrestling shows I went to- I was in what would translate to (in this arena) be section 115 for Monday Night RAW and section 102 for a Smackdown House Show.