I know that police depts. keep a log on each officer's training and practice schedules, as it may be needed in the event they have to go to court due to a shooting. My question is would it be worth it for the regular CCW carrier to also maintain a log book on training, practice sessions, competitions, etc. , in the event that they would need to defend themselves in court due to a self defense shooting ? Is it something worth doing, or is it not really needed ?

I thought he would have the best opion, at least for me.
Mas,
Ran across this in the forum and it got me thinking, since I no longer have department documation maybe this is a good idea. I think we missed in Post Falls?
" know that police depts. keep a log on each officer's training and practice schedules, as it may be needed in the event they have to go to court due to a shooting. My question is would it be worth it for the regular CCW carrier to also maintain a log book on training, practice sessions, competitions, etc. , in the event that they would need to defend themselves in court due to a self defense shooting ? Is it something worth doing, or is it not really needed ?" TINCUP AL

His response;
Not a bad idea at all.
Catch you next time in Post Falls!
best
Mas

Scattergun Bob- Thanks for the reply. Mas Ayoob is exactly the person I was hoping would answer this question. I guess it wouldn't hurt to keep a log, and hope that you would never need it. I don't really see it being used against you, if you don't offer it up to the prosecutor in the first place. Thanks again.

Just what is the log book going to do to defend you in a shooting that isn't in the log book? How does a log book change the circumstances of the shooting?

__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

The purpose of the log book would/could show that a person is serious about their training and attaining the skills necessary to carry/use their firearm with the utmost care and responsibility. Not just getting or doing the "minimum" to satisfy the requirements to get your CCW permit. It shows that you have gone above and beyond to get the most training and practice that you possibly can, and that you are more than capable in using your firearm to defend yourself or loved ones. This very issue has been brought up in court many many times, wether it involved a police officer or a civilian. The question would be asked, "what qualifications do you have that shows that you are trained and capable of carrying this firearm ? " I would much rather be able to show that I have gone above and beyond the minimum requirements, because it was "that" important to me, and I took it "that" serious, rather than "just" having the basics. Keep in mind that this is just my opinion, although I am glad to see that somone who I feel is very qualified (Mas Ayoob )also shares the same opinion.

The purpose of the log book would/could show that a person is serious about their training and attaining the skills necessary to carry/use their firearm with the utmost care and responsibility. Not just getting or doing the "minimum" to satisfy the requirements to get your CCW permit. It shows that you have gone above and beyond to get the most training and practice that you possibly can, and that you are more than capable in using your firearm to defend yourself or loved ones.

After you have been in a shooting and shot your attacker, then you don't need training records to show that you are more than capable in using your firearm to defend yourself or loved ones because you already demonstrated this aspect. If you are in court, it isn't because of your training, but because there is some question as to the legality of your shoot and all the training in the world won't change whether or not your shoot was legal.

Quote:

This very issue has been brought up in court many many times, wether it involved a police officer or a civilian. The question would be asked, "what qualifications do you have that shows that you are trained and capable of carrying this firearm ? "

Baloney. First of all, if you are on trial, your lawyer isn't going to want you on the stand. Secondly, your qualifications to carry, if you are in a CCW/CHL state are indicated by your license....but this won't be an issue if you are qualified to carry, but if you were justified in your shooting. Again, your quals won't change the shooting.

Since when do you have to be "qualified" with a substantiated paper trail to defend your own life?

Quote:

I would much rather be able to show that I have gone above and beyond the minimum requirements, because it was "that" important to me, and I took it "that" serious, rather than "just" having the basics. Keep in mind that this is just my opinion, although I am glad to see that somone who I feel is very qualified (Mas Ayoob )also shares the same opinion.

While citing the hearsay appeal to authority you learned from this thread is great and all, explain how the records will affect the circumstance of a shooting.

If you are in court, there is something potentially wrong with the shooting such that the issue has gotten you to court. Hopefully it will be resolved in your favor, but I don't see how shooting records will resolve the issue. Are you sure those same records won't show how you, as a well trained firearms carrier, should have known better than to pull the trigger when you did? After all, with so much training, you should have been a better shot, known the law better, waited a little longer instead of shooting so soon, etc.

__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

Any shooting will result in you going to court,both criminal and civil, no matter if it was a "good" shoot or not. I just had a question, and I recieved an answer from someone who's opinion is held in high regard in courtrooms across the country, and not just on internet forums. I think you missed the point of the original question, but that is ok. Like I said, it was just a question. I have my answer. Thank you.

DNS, I have to respectfully disagree with you on several counts. First, all of us in the business have seen a number of absolutely clean shootings that were mischaracterized by an either clueless or politically motivated prosecutor, or much more commonly by a greedy plaintiff's lawyer, as something nefarious.

Second, the old lawyer's advice "Never put the defendant on the stand" is a tactic geared to guilty clients, who comprise the great majority of most defense attorneys' client bases. Most attorneys who defend a lot of wrongfully accused innocent people WANT their defendant on the stand, in hopes of showing what happened from the best possible perspective, the shooter's.

Third, we all know how many anti-gun media editorials have told the public that ordinary people shouldn't carry guns because "they're not qualified and competent like police and security guards." Knowing the jury is vulnerable to it, the argument that "You were incompetent and a danger to us all, packing that piece on our streets" might very well be one of the cards opposing counsel plays. If he should open that door, being able to document competence with things like shooting match score sheets, personal records (as are kept by serious competitive shooters), etc. gives the defense a chance to not only prove the competence of the defendant, but undercut the credibility of the opposing lawyer who is attacking him.

I keep a log on my firearms to show number of rounds fired and any maintenance that has been performed and what is coming up. For example, the barrel on one of my AR's is approaching its life expectancy and will be replaced when it reaches that mark.

I also have a space for any training done with a certain gun on a certain day. This is not for court purposes, but rather notes to indicate what TTPs I to need practice. If done with a timer, the time taken for any given drill is also recorded.

Bob- I agree. I'm glad to see Mas Ayoob weigh in on the topic. Mr. Ayoob, I enjoy reading all of your articles and I value the information that you provide from real world experiences. It is very helpful. Thank you.

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