the relation of age to composing

black metal is primarily youthful. all the best stuff came from young people, later albums sucked - because those bands lost that youthful vision, got older, got day jobs, married with two kids - all that shit.

crux of question: will this movement be forced to advance beyond it's inbuilt rebelious nature in order to truly evolve. i mean on the one hand it's at the point where it could have become the new classical/ambient (and many classical composers were writing great music till their dying days), yet its youthful angst (that wears off after the 2nd album) seems to keep the whole movement from getting anywhere.

I've wondered about this too. It seems to me that much of the aesthetic of black metal and the concepts behind it are born in the rebellious youthful mindset. If notions of these aspects are at the root of creating the music, then perhaps an aesthetic and conceptual maturation is required if we are to expect consistent contributions instead of musicians constantly burning out on the genre and producing tainted works.

One of the defining features of black metal is its vicious nihilistic edge. This, as anus espouses, cannot sustain itself (unless it becomes fatalism); it is transitional in nature. Perhaps the maturation is rather open; whatever will follow the nihilistic clearing away that has influenced many young Hessians will be what a more enduring form of music can be based on, one that is beyond the need for nihilistic states of mind. However, nihilistic themes are so central that it's not clear if we could even call something that went beyond them black metal or an extension of black metal.

However, the frenzied states of mind and activity that musicians and listeners alike enter into do not seem so easily seperable as merely temporary features, and such states require alot of energy. Perhaps they do require youth, but maybe not. Perhaps they just require a new inspiration. Black metal is simply a dying star, as far as inspiration is currently concerned. Something longer burning would allow for more extended contributions through time, and maybe this can arise as the genre and its adherents mature if they don't succumb to the chaos they've wrapped around themselves.

Age has nothing to do with it. Rebellion is not limited to youth and I in fact would argue against it. This is irrelevant to my argument however. The music probably fades because of a lack of musical training and time. Metal musicians don't have unlimited amount of time to compose music. This limits what they can do. Also, they mostly have no training and make good music because they had some good ideas or an inspiration, but after they use up that idea, they have nothing left and the music they make is crap. However it can be argued that with time their spirit is killed because having to suppress all their innermost desires. I feel it happening to me. Whenever I used to talk to someone ignorant or stupid or whatever, I used to be filled with almost insuppressible rage. I could think of nothing but brutally murdering them. Over time, the fact that I have to suppress this has caused me to be much more tolerant and not as angry. This really bothers me. I fear that I will one day believe that these people have a right to live.

Age has nothing to do with it. Rebellion is not limited to youth and I in fact would argue against it. This is irrelevant to my argument however. The music probably fades because of a lack of musical training and time. Metal musicians don't have unlimited amount of time to compose music. This limits what they can do. Also, they mostly have no training and make good music because they had some good ideas or an inspiration, but after they use up that idea, they have nothing left and the music they make is crap. However it can be argued that with time their spirit is killed because having to suppress all their innermost desires. I feel it happening to me. Whenever I used to talk to someone ignorant or stupid or whatever, I used to be filled with almost insuppressible rage. I could think of nothing but brutally murdering them. Over time, the fact that I have to suppress this has caused me to be much more tolerant and not as angry. This really bothers me. I fear that I will one day believe that these people have a right to live.

Perhaps future generations of musicians would do well to wait until the hormones have subsided. There comes a time when the battle is over, and those who've not been caught up in the fray remain--with the advantage of a clearer vision of what needs be done in the aftermath, and the voice that was their guide all along echoing loudly the songs of victory.

These days, production is an important aspect of making music, and tools evolve really fast. Therefore, since we depend a lot on the production process, bands that sounded a certain way 15 years ago, sound completely different now.

Age has nothing to do with it. Rebellion is not limited to youth and I in fact would argue against it. This is irrelevant to my argument however. The music probably fades because of a lack of musical training and time. Metal musicians don't have unlimited amount of time to compose music. This limits what they can do. Also, they mostly have no training and make good music because they had some good ideas or an inspiration, but after they use up that idea, they have nothing left and the music they make is crap. However it can be argued that with time their spirit is killed because having to suppress all their innermost desires. I feel it happening to me. Whenever I used to talk to someone ignorant or stupid or whatever, I used to be filled with almost insuppressible rage. I could think of nothing but brutally murdering them. Over time, the fact that I have to suppress this has caused me to be much more tolerant and not as angry. This really bothers me. I fear that I will one day believe that these people have a right to live.

well i'm not saying it's purely the result of a rebellious youth i.e. the "i won't do what my parents tell me!" archetype, but more the ability or lack thereof to bridge youthful idealism and imagination into maturity - (which is usually a stage wherein most have succumbed to a life of work/consume/pollute mentality). maybe the answer is to better recognise the deeper process: that true black metal remains an ancient message brimming in the subconsciousness of youth - but that it should have been a starting point for greater things to come - a transition, as mentioned.

so where to go from here? i think later beherit and burzum were heading for the same destination, though through different paths. both superceded their apparent form with a desire and longing for the answers to that greater process. what they started in youth, they followed through and i can't help but think the future music would be built on this sort of evolution. something of the fantasy in reality, unlike summoning which is comfortably flavoured wallpaper.

later albums sucked - because those bands lost that youthful vision, got older, got day jobs, married with two kids - all that shit.

I think what's more determinate here is time in the music industry. For example, Amorphis started at age 16 and were thoroughly sold out whores by age 21. Other bands, like Darkthrone, took until age 28 to fully sell out and turn into cretins.

When you start making music, you do it for the sake of making music you'd want to hear.

After a few years of listening to your label, magazines and fans, you start wanting to make music that will make more people like it.

All whoredom comes from this.

Many classical artists grew up, had kids, had houses and still made music as vital if not more vital than what they did in their younger years.

It's all a matter of mental focus and awareness of the threats we face from whorelike society.