Cheers and double cheers, dp. Once again, your Bothan spy network proves to be the best.

Kyrinic wrote:

I don't get how any of this points to Rey being Luke's daughter. Her using force abilities in no way means that. You can be force sensitive and not be related to the Skywalkers.

I agree. Not all of the new characters have to be related to legacy characters. The latest Rebels episode explains why parents would hide their child from dark-siders. If Rey was born in a system controlled by the First Order, it makes sense that her parents would leave her on a remote world like Jakku.

That being said: I'm rooting for Hux to be Luke's son. Story-wise, I find that scenario to be very interesting.

Join: December 23rd 2004 11:19 pmPosts: 467Location: Left side of right coast

Kyrinic wrote:

I don't get how any of this points to Rey being Luke's daughter. Her using force abilities in no way means that. You can be force sensitive and not be related to the Skywalkers.

E_CHU_TA! wrote:

Cheers and double cheers, dp. Once again, your Bothan spy network proves to be the best. I agree. Not all of the new characters have to be related to legacy characters. The latest Rebels episode explains why parents would hide their child from dark-siders. If Rey was born in a system controlled by the First Order, it makes sense that her parents would leave her on a remote world like Jakku.

That being said: I'm rooting for Hux to be Luke's son. Story-wise, I find that scenario to be very interesting.

I don't see any possible way for her to be related to Luke but there are so many out there that get angry over saying that. I think it would be cool if she was but I see no possible way. I really hope that the lightsaber tumbling thru space was changed. That sounds completely absurd.

I still think that the lightsaber tumbling through space thing is probably an abstract impression or vision someone has, not a weapon literally flying through space, entering the atmosphere and landing in someone's lap.

Man, I think there's some intentional misdirection in this shooting schedule from the filmmakers, and I think that it's beautiful that they're going to such great lengths to keep secrets. That can't be easy in this Information Age.

That Google doc connects a lot of dots.

I know this is a spoilery site, but I don't want to ruin anything for anyone, so take care reading my thoughts below.

I still think the second teaser gives a lot of story hints, if you listen carefully, which back up the Google doc spoilers. It's cool that, since there is more time between Jedi and TFA than between RotS and ANH, they're employing flashbacks and dream-sequence/Force visions more than usual in order to fill us in on what happened. Pure conjecture here, but, if Luke has children (I won't specify what I suspect), I would be willing to bet that his wife is dead. Although I doubt they'd use Zahn's Mara Jade (Skywalker) character, it would be a great nod if we found out one day that this possible new character in the new canon was named Mara Skywalker.

I just don't see Disney tossing out 35 years of 'Skywalker' marketing, which they would be doing if the lead character wasn't a Skywalker. Plus, who said Luke had to be aware he had a daughter. She could have been hidden from him much like he was from his father. This isn't to say this IS what happens, just that it is possible. If she is his daughter, I don't think they would reveal it in VII though. They would make everyone believe she wasn't, then reveal that she was in VIII or IX.

I see older brother vs. younger sister a far more interesting storyline than cousins. It just works much better.I think Kylo is kidnapped as a child by the Knights of Ren because they want the grandchild of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader - their obsession.

If Rey was a Skywalker-Solo, you could have it that she had no interest in being a Jedi (like her mother), or she was there during the attack on Luke's Temple and someone saved her.[/quote]

What got JJ to make the movie? Kathleen Kennedy posed the question to him, "Who is Luke Skywalker?" It was confirmed by J.J. recently in an interview that this question is being posed by Rey, the female protagonist.

The ultimate answer will be Luke saying, "I am your father." There is a lot of misdirection being given by the filmmakers in order to save the surprise. I believe the closest we have now to proof of this were what I think were hints given in the second, nostalgia-filled teaser trailer.

Listen to the dialogue again, "My father has it. I have it. My sister has it," with a malicious-sounding echo. The malicious-sounding echo, I believe, is supposed to be Kylo Ren's voice/inner dialogue and can be read as coming from his point of view. My speculation is that, if I'm right, Kylo's echo can be interpreted as a double entendre. "My father (Luke) has it. I (Kylo Ren) have it. My sister (Kira/Rey) has it."

The double entendre being that "it" can be interpreted in general as the Force, or a literal, specific reference referring to Anakin's lightsaber, which is being sought throughout the film. It's a story hint which has been in front of our noses the entire time, if I'm right and as reliable spoiler sources seem to back up.

It just required a little abstract thinking to uncover. It explains why Lucasfilm/Disney seemed to go into damage control mode immediately after the trailer dropped, when Daisy dropped the "solitary" line as misdirection. JJ loves a twist.

I agree: However, I think that Kylo is not Han and Leia's son. Kylo doesn't resemble Han or Leia. He doesn't resemble Luke, either. I think he resembles his (probably dead) mother, who, if and when we get acquainted with her, we will see in flashbacks.

As for Rey, the misdirection is that she looks like Leia and Padmé, so we are meant to think that she is Leia and Han's daughter, naturally. However, I believe she is Luke's daughter and resembles Luke's mother rather than Luke. That happens sometimes when people procreate.

This is all speculation that I can't back up with any spoiler source to which I've been exposed, but I have a feeling that we will find out that, yes, they did kidnap Kylo when he was young, but that the group was a Dark Side cult subservient to Snoke and not yet called the "Knights of Ren." That may be backed up by the Vader-obsessive group that appears in the Aftermath novel.

Over the years, due to his Dark Side mastery and ancestry (or maybe both), Kylo Ren arose as the leader of this task force, which were from then on called "The Knights of Ren."

I could be wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if I am, but I am okay with eating "humble pie." And I am certain that I will love what Disney/LFL present to us with TFA, and that it will be better than the prequels:

I think that the Dark Side cult who will be known as "The Knights of Ren" by the time of the movie attacked Luke's Jedi Temple and massacred what Jedi were there, and kidnapped Kylo Ren. I think that the scene of Kylo with his Knights is a Force-vision/fever dream of Kira which contains elements of literal events and abstract truths, somewhat like the Dagobah Cave scene in Empire.

It is a cryptic vision whose truth Rey must decipher, likely over the course of more than one film. That is, Kylo and the current knights may have not committed this massacre, but that group were the culprits. Rewatch the full trailer in HD: Jedi or not, there are defiinitely dead bodies on the ground in that scene.

My guess is that Luke was absent from the massacre, and the scene in which we see him in the trailers is him kneeling before a funeral pyre in a flashback. His wife survived and ran off with Rey, and she abandoned her on Jakku, but she was killed by the Knights of Ren/First Order before they could safely return to her.

Captain Walker wrote:

Yet Luke as a father idea brings up a bunch of problems: Who is the mother? Where is she?Why is Luke having children?

It is not necessary that we know her anymore than we needed to know the character who would become Padmé during the Original Trilogy, but, again:

I think the best scenario is that, if Luke has/had a wife and she is the mother of any of the Sequel Trilogy's protagonists, then she is likely dead and what we come to know of her will be through in-movie verbal references at the very least and flashbacks/new EU canon material, at the most explicit.

Why not Luke having children? Part of the subtext of the prequel trilogy was that the Jedi's interpretation and rigid, dogmatic adherence to the Jedi Code contributed to their downfall.

If Luke attempted to resurrect the Jedi Order at any point between trilogies, who is to say that his teachings wouldn't be a little more mystic and less rigid, as was alluded to with Qui-Gon's focus on "The Living Force" moreso than "The Unifying Force"? However enough prequel babble, as I'm not certain how much they will be emphasized or referenced moving forward. Although,I think Luke having children isn't that big of a deal.

Captain Walker wrote:

It starts the kind of disagreements, arguments and knockdown drag outs that aren't really necessary with a better approach.I see Luke as a lone, slightly tragic figure with the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders. Making him a Daddy hurts all of that in my opinion.

I hope I haven't proved your point with this post, although I probably have. I just love spoilers and debating the possibilities of what we will know in a few weeks. I also like to make predictions based on where the quality spoiler information we have gotten so far seems to point.

I really think that, if he is a daddy, it was because he was too optimistic about what he could do following the Battle of Endor. And I think the Luke we will see in TFA will still be good, but driven a little loopy and forced to become a hermit from having those illusions shattered, not much unlike Alec Guiness' Obi-Wan.

I also have thoughts on what the title "The Force Awakens" refers to, if anyone's interested. I think that it also might be a double entendre.

The story begins with a lightsaber that is lying on the desert planet of Jakku just waiting for a mysterious someone to retrieve it.

I suppose, technically, the story does open with a lightsaber lying on the desert planet of Jakku waiting for a mysterious someone to retrieve it in any case.It's just that, from the schedule, the implication is that the lightsaber is lying in wait on Jakku, with its custodian Lor San Tekka, for someone - Poe Dameron (who is as mysterious as anyone else in the context of the story at that point) - to retrieve it.

IMHO, any shot of a lightsaber falling to the ground is part of the flashback sequence of events, and, if it does appear at the start of the movie, it is merely an intriguing tease as to what is driving the plot that will be revisited and expanded upon later on Takodana.I've never quite understood why people think the details in the schedule imply it is falling to Jakku. It is falling to the ground at some point before the timeframe of the movie, then *it appears* it changes hands and lots of other things happen to it thereafter...

I hope I haven't proved your point with this post, although I probably have. I just love spoilers and debating the possibilities of what we will know in a few weeks. I also like to make predictions based on where the quality spoiler information we have gotten so far seems to point.

I also have thoughts on what the title "The Force Awakens" refers to, if anyone's interested. I think that it also might be a double entendre.

I don't mind the opinions, debate. Good post. But I think the strong consensus is that Kylo is Han and Leia's son.

He supposedly has a moment of reflection in the Falcon cockpit. Later, he kills his father either in Starkiller base or outside in the forest.

This is one of the reasons why I'd prefer Rey to be his and Leia's daughter. I think the sibling confrontations in this movie (interrogation/duel) end up having way more resonance to them.

Also, I think the whole familial relationship thingy is why Kylo removes his mask. I think Kylo removes the mask twice. He removes it to interrogate Rey at Starkiller, and I got a feeling he removes it to talk to his father Han. This is why he doesn't have it on when he duels Finn... then Rey.

The malicious-sounding echo, I believe, is supposed to be Kylo Ren's voice/inner dialogue

Nope. Mark Hamill revealed (on stage in San Diego I think) that he re-recorded the classic lines for the trailer. (He also said he'd kept saying "my father had it" instead of "my father has it" ). Then J.J. decided to use the one of the original 1983 recordings after all and add the new one as sort of echo only. I can't see how/why Luke's voice could represent Kylo Ren's inner dialogue.

Why not Luke having children? Part of the subtext of the prequel trilogy was that the Jedi's interpretation and rigid, dogmatic adherence to the Jedi Code contributed to their downfall.

What?! How?

The Jedi fell because a Sith Lord used the dark side to cloud their vision and managed to become Chancellor of the Republic. Once there, he trapped the Jedi in a lose-lose situation where they had to participate in a war in order to protect the Republic from a puppet enemy. Once the Jedi were in that vulnerable position, he managed to fully convert Anakin which helped Sidious finish the job.

Also, the Jedi code and respective beliefs exist for a reason. The Jedi dedicate their lives to protect the Republic. That's their selfless commitment. To form a family is incompatible with their way of life. Not only that, the attachment that is formed in a family can put them (and their loved ones) in danger and cloud their judgment.

The Jedi fell because a Sith Lord used the dark side to cloud their vision and managed to become Chancellor of the Republic. Once there, he trapped the Jedi in a lose-lose situation where they had to participate in a war in order to protect the Republic from a puppet enemy. Once the Jedi were in that vulnerable position, he managed to fully convert Anakin which helped Sidious finish the job.

Also, the Jedi code and respective beliefs exist for a reason. The Jedi dedicate their lives to protect the Republic. That's their selfless commitment. To form a family is incompatible with their way of life. Not only that, the attachment that is formed in a family can put them (and their loved ones) in danger and cloud their judgment.

Thanks, Alexrd.

This was kind of my point. Your post gets the point across better than mine.

It's easy to argue the idea that, as the last Jedi, Luke has decided to do things differently.

I just see it as creating unnecessary problems.

In my opinion, it just works so much better if Kylo and Rey are siblings.

It almost feels like a no-brainer.

Why take an approach that isn't even close to being as interesting or compelling?

I agree that I think it makes it a much stronger and more dynamic story if it's about a brother vs. a sister, especially if the brother starts off in the dark and moves to the light while the sister falls. There's a TON of dramatic potential in that scenario.

Sadly, I don't think this will be the case. Disney spent $4 billion on this franchise, and if all of the Star Wars wet-wipes, shortbread cookies and makeup(!) i've been seeing in department stores are any indication, they will squeeze every last penny out of it, so there is absolutely no way that we will not be seeing a new Skywalker this generation. For obvious reasons, the only candidate to fit the bill is Rey.

I remember last year Doctor Who's Karen Gillan mentioning to reporters that after she had shaved her head for the Nebula role in Guardians of the Galaxy, she had donated her red hair to the "guys at Lucasfilm". 30 years is a long time, I can't believe Luke would still be a virgin by this point.