Just gave Wavosaur a crack - recommended by Chis early on in this thread. Pretty good sample editor. Allows you to get right down to work and it doesn't cost anything. If you need something pretty, look elsewhere. If you are looking for functionality, give it a shot.

I would also like to add offline processing of plug-ins. Sometimes I like to actually permanently alter an audio file. Wave Editors are usually quicker for these types of editors. And Sound Forge even allows me to use VSTs in an offline process, and many of its built-in effects for pitch shifting and such is nice.

I think the big thing though is precision.

Some DAWs make decent editors as well, Pro Tools and Audition started off as Audio Editors so they retain alot of functionality that alot of other DAWs havent focused on, on the audio editing side.

Generally though, Ableton is a pretty decent Audio Editor, but there are some things that a dedicated editor can do better.

Just gave Wavosaur a crack - recommended by Chis early on in this thread. Pretty good sample editor. Allows you to get right down to work and it doesn't cost anything. If you need something pretty, look elsewhere. If you are looking for functionality, give it a shot.

^ +1

My wave editor needs are pretty simple, and Wavosaur is super easy to use and free. I picked it up after I discovered that the smallest wave you can edit in Ableton was just not small enough.

can you please make the visuals of the forums less appealing! they are so much fun to look at! i think brown on tan is far too legible!how about 10% gray on top of white? or maybe 50% grey on 60% grey! that would be far less legible! and please, a smaller font point size! far too big!

Since I posted this, I became more familiar with Simpler, which I can use to dump a sample into, and sort of set in points on the fly, and that works to a large extent for a 'Live' performance, and I don't have to cut any samples whatsoever.

I freely admit I don't know everything there is to know about setting loop points in Ableton, and it's never been self-evident to me, so I need a link to a guide on that.

However, I do know that I can't easily cut loops from multiple tracks at once. This is good for turning jams into songs, and I used to do this a lot in a stereo editing program, but of course, I want multiple track recording.

Ableton just isn't ergonomic in the edit window. It has the loop function and the selection zone, but there's nothing smooth about the zoom WAY in and out to set the in and out points until the loop is exact.

I'm not saying it can't be done in Ableton but it isn't user friendly, and it seems that the world's premier loop player, which I don't have problems with it claiming, would be better at actually cutting the loops from whatever source in I'm trying to cut.

Beyond the lack of easy sample cutting, the midi editing is also atrocious. Those tiny handles for the velocities that sit on top of each other. I could name 5 thoroughly non-ergonomic ways the midi editing works, but I'll spend my time looking at real piano rolls since Ableton doesnt see fit to use its overpriced upgrade costs to match its competition in this regard.