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Heckert should definetly stay and if Shurmur can get his team to keep playing hard and he can avoid making any more game losing bone head decisions and they win out or at least 2 of the last 3, then I think he should stay as well.

Some continuity would be good around this organization.

Of the two I personally would rather we keep Heckert if we only retain one.

What worries me the most I think is we know for sure Heckert has the ability to scout good players. The dirty work is done, he can now start to build depth and fill out the team. What I fear is that 5 or 6 years down the road (if he's fired or leaves this year) we'll be stuck make where we started because the guy we replaced him with won't be able to draft the way he does

Basically whoever gets the job here is coming into a good situation for a few years. But when Heckerts guys contracts are up and we can't keep them all, I'm worried the guys making the decisions won't know wtf he's doing

I'm with it too. I hope that they are given another year. We have the talent. We need the consistency. We need depth. I think we are one year away from the playoffs, and what the team has accomplished, together as a team, this season, is tremendous, and I think we need to see where this goes. Young coach, young players, and they are buying in, and playing hard for the city of Cleveland.

I just can't watch all of these young guys have to try to drink a different kind of kool-aid next season.

And the only way Shumur could ever become one of the greats, is if he is given the time to succeed. There aren't that many "great" coaches, or even "good" coaches. Shumur is growing with this team. He's as fresh as the men he's leading, and the all around improvement is impressive. However the season is not over yet. Tough tests coming up 1 after another.

I'm definitely on board with keeping these two. This team needs continuity much more than it needs a 'better' front office and coach._________________First Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee.

Pat... I hated Pat. I thought he was an idiot, I thought he was worthless garbage that was holding the team back. But he's starting to get it, honestly. It's hard to argue that when you take away one of your best players that you lose. When he has Joe Haden, he's a 5-3 coach. Without him, he's 0-5 this year. But what's even better; We don't commit many turnovers, he stopped most of his clueless Pat timeouts, and delay of games. He's calling really good plays now.I really think that, if we end up being 7-4 over the last eleven games, you have to keep him for one more season before judging him.

Not ready to jump on board with Pat Shurmur. His side of the ball is still far and away the worst of the two and his play calling clams up in the redzone.

If we suddenly start getting touchdowns instead of FGs then I would think about leaning toward supporting him but I don't know. He just doesn't seem like a great leader like those that are winning rings at this level._________________

Not ready to jump on board with Pat Shurmur. His side of the ball is still far and away the worst of the two and his play calling clams up in the redzone.

If we suddenly start getting touchdowns instead of FGs then I would think about leaning toward supporting him but I don't know. He just doesn't seem like a great leader like those that are winning rings at this level.

I honestly don't see how judging a head coach's or a GM's performance is very difficult when you use the appropriate criteria.

Looking at wins and losses in a vacuum is very suspect.

Looking at what you believe to be "bad play calls”,"bad timeouts", or other "bad decisions" in a vacuum is very suspect.

Looking at what you believe to be "bad draft picks" in a vacuum is very suspect.

Looking at overall competiveness with the available tools and comparing it to the baseline is a fundamental and rather large piece of the assessment.

So, Shurmur has coached a team with the most rookie starts in the league in each of the past 2 seasons and the rookies were chosen by Tom Heckert.

The results in the last 29 games (Shurmur as coach) included 18 games (62%) which were decided by 8 or fewer points, 2 wins (7%) of greater than 8 points, and 9 losses (31%) of more than 8 points. This suggests that the Browns were "competitive" in 69% of their games.

The previous (before Shurmur) 32 games included 17 games (53%) which were decided by 8 or fewer points, 3 wins (9%) of greater than 8 points, and 12 losses (38%) of more than 8 points. This suggests that the Browns were "competitive" in 62% of their games.

The results in the last 45 games (Heckert as GM) included 28 games (62%) which were decided by 8 or fewer points, 4 wins (9%) of greater than 8 points, and 13 losses (29%) of more than 8 points. This suggests that the Browns were "competitive" in 71% of their games.

The previous 32 games before Heckert included 14 games (44%) which were decided by 8 or fewer points, 2 wins (6%) of greater than 8 points, and 16 losses (50%) of more than 8 points. This suggests that the Browns were "competitive" in 50% of their games.

The previous 48 games (to include 2007) before Heckert included 24 games (50%) which were decided by 8 or fewer points, 6 wins (13%) of greater than 8 points, and 18 losses (38%) of more than 8 points. This suggests that the Browns were "competitive" in 63% of their games.

I think it is pretty easy to conclude that Heckert has provided the team with better players AND Shurmur has done a good job coaching them. If anyone wants to produce better results from more (or similar) rookie starts, I would really like to see it._________________

Is there beer on this bandwagon? I'm assuming so because hornby is driving. God knows where we'll end up but it should be a fun ride. Count me in on the bandwagon, only guy I really want gone is Childress. We were warned about the run-run-incomplete-punt offense by minnesota fans and there has been way too much of that for my liking._________________

I'm on the fence as well with shurmur. If he goes 8-8 and gets us in the playoffs I think Haslam keeps him. If he goes 7-9 with a victory in Pitt keeping them out of the playoffs I'm calling Haslam to keep him.