Waiting for MRI results this morning, but the best case is he's out for a while.

People are pointing out that Braxton has tended in the past to overblow some of his injuries, but what he is telling people is that he's done, and plans to redshirt. The doctors MIGHT have a different take.

He had suffered the injury in the Orange Bowl, tearing his labrum, possibly AFTER having dislocated the shoulder, or developing looseness or instability in the joint over time prior to that. This could be a re-tearing of the labrum due to instability in the shoulder joint...or it could be just pain from scar tissue.

It happened in a non-contact drill....throwing a routine 8-yard out pattern, when he felt something pop, and was doubled over in intense pain.

Without Braxton they could still be a 9 or 10-win team....should be, in fact. But it's hard to project a win at MSU, for example, without him.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Still, and I don't want to be one of those guys that undervalues Braxton, he's good, very good, but even if he is out for the season, I don't think my primary concerns about the team, [O-Line, DB, LB] will change. If the O-Line is decent, the coaching staff is good, there's tons of talent at RB and WR, I think they can still score points. Plus Cardale is huge and if I'm not mistaken JT was a top recruit before he got hurt in HS.

So the sky isn't falling....still with Braxton in there, there was always an 'anything can happen' feeling, which I think we may lose with an new QB.

Also, about the RS, that's just for flexibility to keep eligibility if necessary right? He wouldn't restrict him in anyway from turning pro, if he decided to take that route, would it?

Herman says he has "reworked his body" since being at OSU....he was a bit "pudgy" when he got here....still the same 6'1", 225 lbs, but stronger and firmer now. Not Brax in terms of speed or elusiveness, but solid...a competitor and a "winner" by all accounts, and a more accurate passer than Miller, they say.

He was 4th rated dual-threat QB nationally as a senior in HS.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Word's starting to leak out he may be done for the year, although I won't really believe it until a uni source says so.

However, Barrett's not exactly a slouch. He'll have Brax in his ear being a coach on the sideline as well, which could seriously help his development. However, a freshman always costs you at least one game (see T. Pryor, Penn State 2008). I can't imagine being favored against Sparty at the moment for the division with an unproven backfield and RS Fr QB.

Then again, the last 2 Heisman winners have been RS Fr- but Barrett isn't JFF or Famous Jameis.

Sorry I am a bit late to the party... I'll toss in my 2 cents, but keep in mind I am a bit of a Buckeye homer, although I like to think of myself as rational, my take may be to optimistic.

I am NOT all that upset by this, it is hard to say that about losing the 2 time B1G offensive player of the year (and lock to win it a third time), but Miller is very limited as a QB. John Cooper used to say, "If a dog is going to bite, he will as a pup (or something like that)," well the same sort of applies to QBs and passing. QB is a complicated position and guys do improve, but did anyone here really think that Miller was going to vault into being an elite passer this year (or even an above average one)?

He improved from 2012 to 2013, but he still was not there. He was still missing open receivers, he still didn't see the field well (that is obvious from any coaches tape) and his limitations certainly affected the playcalls. While Miller did have a decent completion % last year, he had one of the highest % of passes completed w/in 10 yards of the LOS. Barrett may not be the passer Miller was, but he has the potential to develop into one. Think about it, when was the last time OSU had a decent passing QB? Boeckman maybe? Smith in 2006?

OSU has been recruiting absolute beasts at the skill positions, if Barrett can distribute the ball, he can be every bit as dangerous (if not moreso) than Brax. Jalin Marshall, Curtis Samuel, Dontre Wilson, 'Zeke Elliot, Heuerman, Devin Smith, Johnny Dixon. There are all kinds of athletes out there that will benefit from the touches and with Barrett we will see less of the read option, which may be a good thing. TBH Miller was not really that good at even reading the read option.

Now that said, here is what makes me nervous...

We have a new OL and an unproven RB replacing Carlos Hyde with a R-Fr QB. If the OL is not good in protection, things could go bad for Barrett fast and if he starts chucking the ball or getting happy feet because of the OL then it will be a long season. That said, I am supremely confident in Ed Warriner's ability to coach an OL, as a matter of fact, I am pretty sure he could've kept the 85 Bears out of last year's Browns backfield. I am not exaggerating when I say he is one of the top 2-3 OL coaches in the country and going against one of the best DL's in the NCAA will help them come together.

What makes me less nervous about this year....

Luke Fickell is no longer running the D. He is a great guy and a good Buckeye, but he was in over his head, period. Last year's defense was a disaster, not from a talent stand point from a scheme stand point (with some talent issues at Safety). Ohio State recruits significantly better athletes than the rest of the B1G yet they played a back 4 system that didn't leverage that or the good DL. Think for a second... if you have a DL that can get pressure, why would you ever play off at the LOS? Your DL will get there before they can throw over the top and you should have better athletes at CB/S to cover you even if they do chuck it up in the air. Ash has the Buckeyes playing a system nearly identical to MSU's with better personnel. This defense will be NASTY this year. OSU shouldn't need 42 to beat anyone this year and frankly, as long as Barrett doesn't fuck it up with turnovers, the defense will carry them through many games.

I think it is still worth watching who wins the CB battle between Reeves, Conley and Apple. My money is Conley ultimately prevailing.... he is a guy that will end up in the 1st round.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Thanks for a solid post. Nice to read intelligent discourse. Since this place has been on life support I have been wandering aimlessly reading absolute garbage and really doing nothing more than wasting my time.

Thanks again.

furls wrote:Sorry I am a bit late to the party... I'll toss in my 2 cents, but keep in mind I am a bit of a Buckeye homer, although I like to think of myself as rational, my take may be to optimistic.

I am NOT all that upset by this, it is hard to say that about losing the 2 time B1G offensive player of the year (and lock to win it a third time), but Miller is very limited as a QB. John Cooper used to say, "If a dog is going to bite, he will as a pup (or something like that)," well the same sort of applies to QBs and passing. QB is a complicated position and guys do improve, but did anyone here really think that Miller was going to vault into being an elite passer this year (or even an above average one)?

He improved from 2012 to 2013, but he still was not there. He was still missing open receivers, he still didn't see the field well (that is obvious from any coaches tape) and his limitations certainly affected the playcalls. While Miller did have a decent completion % last year, he had one of the highest % of passes completed w/in 10 yards of the LOS. Barrett may not be the passer Miller was, but he has the potential to develop into one. Think about it, when was the last time OSU had a decent passing QB? Boeckman maybe? Smith in 2006?

OSU has been recruiting absolute beasts at the skill positions, if Barrett can distribute the ball, he can be every bit as dangerous (if not moreso) than Brax. Jalin Marshall, Curtis Samuel, Dontre Wilson, 'Zeke Elliot, Heuerman, Devin Smith, Johnny Dixon. There are all kinds of athletes out there that will benefit from the touches and with Barrett we will see less of the read option, which may be a good thing. TBH Miller was not really that good at even reading the read option.

Now that said, here is what makes me nervous...

We have a new OL and an unproven RB replacing Carlos Hyde with a R-Fr QB. If the OL is not good in protection, things could go bad for Barrett fast and if he starts chucking the ball or getting happy feet because of the OL then it will be a long season. That said, I am supremely confident in Ed Warriner's ability to coach an OL, as a matter of fact, I am pretty sure he could've kept the 85 Bears out of last year's Browns backfield. I am not exaggerating when I say he is one of the top 2-3 OL coaches in the country and going against one of the best DL's in the NCAA will help them come together.

What makes me less nervous about this year....

Luke Fickell is no longer running the D. He is a great guy and a good Buckeye, but he was in over his head, period. Last year's defense was a disaster, not from a talent stand point from a scheme stand point (with some talent issues at Safety). Ohio State recruits significantly better athletes than the rest of the B1G yet they played a back 4 system that didn't leverage that or the good DL. Think for a second... if you have a DL that can get pressure, why would you ever play off at the LOS? Your DL will get there before they can throw over the top and you should have better athletes at CB/S to cover you even if they do chuck it up in the air. Ash has the Buckeyes playing a system nearly identical to MSU's with better personnel. This defense will be NASTY this year. OSU shouldn't need 42 to beat anyone this year and frankly, as long as Barrett doesn't fuck it up with turnovers, the defense will carry them through many games.

I think it is still worth watching who wins the CB battle between Reeves, Conley and Apple. My money is Conley ultimately prevailing.... he is a guy that will end up in the 1st round.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

furls wrote:I am NOT all that upset by this, it is hard to say that about losing the 2 time B1G offensive player of the year (and lock to win it a third time), but Miller is very limited as a QB. John Cooper used to say, "If a dog is going to bite, he will as a pup (or something like that)," well the same sort of applies to QBs and passing. QB is a complicated position and guys do improve, but did anyone here really think that Miller was going to vault into being an elite passer this year (or even an above average one)?

I believe his composure and experience would have trumped his mediocre passing skills. I'm not nearly as optimistic about this turn of events as you are, but knowing very little about Barrett and Jones (other than he doesn't like school) probably adds to this feeling.

I believe now is the time to see if all those stars in past tOSU recruiting classes are worth a shit.

WTF am I going to do with QB battles in Columbus and Cleveland next summer?

You can say what you will about the passing ability of Miller. It's been discussed here before. Fickell and his staff effed up Miller. I'll believe til my dying day he was a better pure passer in high school than what he was turned into his freshman year and I also believe Meyer and his staff was fixing that.

Would he ever be a drop back, stand tall and deliver guy? Not likely. But he should have been more than he was.

I wonder how bright he is in terms of the system changes he had to endure. Not easy to adjust.

But you do lose without Miller. Simply put, he can turn nothing into everything. He keeps plays alive and drives alive and he's a game breaking talent who happens to be a mediocre passer.

But they'll miss him. Not in terms of most of the B1G schedule, but they'd win those games with me at QB. He's an elite college talent. And that's hard to replace.

Maybe Barrett will be one too. Just saying that til we know that's the case, you have to look at the loss of Miller as a blow to any Nat'l title hopes they may have had, if they had any to begin with.

Question for Furls - would you rather have the Buckeyes at 10-1 w/Miller, or a 50-1 ticket without.

Cause if you're holding a 50-1 ticket, you just need them to get into that playoff in order to hedge and make some good money. I don't think it's near 50-1 inconceivable that they still run the table with this schedule.

If you say the Buckeyes are: 50:50 @ MSU, 75:25 to beat VaTech, 75:25 to beat scUM, and 80:20 @ PSU and 95% likely to win the rest of their games with Miller then that means that they are only 15% likely to finish the year undefeated in up to the B1G CCG where they face Iowa, Wisco or Nebraska so multiply that 15% by I don't know 75%. Now you put them in the playoffs where they are 50:50 to win each game and that makes them ~3% likely to win it all making 10:1 a sucker bet.

You can tweak the numbers but you get the point... there was very little value at 10:1.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

I am not saying the team is better off without Miller, that would be a STUPID position to take. I am just saying that the team is different without Miller. Miller had some pretty serious warts, but he is a great RB/QB.

The question is do the Buckeyes have the tools to make up for him with other playmakers and can Barrett be a guy that gets them the ball. We don't know the answer to part 2, but I am telling you that I have a lot of confidence in part 1.

Meyer has already implied that this team will be putting the ball in the H-Backs hands more (Wilson, Marshall and Samuel) and that is pretty exciting. Another considerartion... what Miller were we going to get throwing the ball this year? He had almost no throwing reps all year and he was not exactly Andrew Luck going into the season. I think we were basically going to see Tommy Frazier this year.

Again, I am not excited that Miller is out, the team is obviously better off with him on the field. I am just not all "Chicken Little" about Miller being out. If Barrett is an average passer then he will make the other playmakers better than Miller did, then the question becomes is Ohio State's offense better off with Braxton Miller's explosiveness, or the combined explosiveness of all the skill players on offense? Barrett doesn't have to be better than Miller as a player to make the offense as good or better, he just has to better than Miller was at using the tools around him. Miller was frankly pretty terrible about getting the other players the ball.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Different is a certainty. Whether that equates to better will be seen. I'm not saying it's out of the question either. For as talented and explosive as Miller is, you're right about him not necessarily being a distributor or a force multiplier.

And I agree the talent at other spots probably benefits from that pass first point guard type as opposed to Miller being all Kyrie.

But it all comes down to whether either Barrett or Jones can be that guy.

Maybe the best way to communicate my feelings regarding the Miller injury is by analogy:

This reminds me a lot of the 2010-2011 Denver Nuggets that traded 'Melo. They were pretty good with Melo, 32-25, but after trading Melo they actually improved some, going 18-7 without him. 'Melo reminds me a lot of Miller. He is truly great at what he does, scoring points (running the ball) and no one in their right mind would turn Melo or Miller down if they wanted to be on your team, but in the end, neither guy elevates those around him and both of their games are fairly one dimensional.

If JT Barrett can equal the efforts of an over the hill Chauncy Billups this team could be pretty good, and the folks that are gift wrapping the East to MSU may have to rethink that position. Barrett doesn't have to be great, just a responsible game manager.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

One of the insiders who was at the OSU scrimmage the other day said Barrett looked very, very sharp running the offense....accurate throws...good decisions in the read option...effective running. The only question seems to be how will he respond to the pressure situations he'll soon be up against....night game in Happy Valley....night game in East Lansing....his first time playing in the Shoe with 105,000 watching, etc.

Most folks in the program seem to be very confident he'll be a cool customer in those moments, based on everything they've seen from the kid since his H.S. days.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken