LOL@ excuses for Ataturk…I think we can make a million excuses and still wont run out of reasons to hate the man. The only thing that makes me feel better is that I know he is dead, in his grave, alone with his Lord.

Abu Ibrahim, I agree with what you say, and no, I don’t think you’re a wacko conspiratorialist. It’strue that their are bad people who plot against authority. But we should never loose hope a believe that they are undefeatable. They will be destroyed (ie the freemasons),, inshaaAllaah Al-Adheem. Yet we must know that once they are destroyed, Allaah will allow another evil society to exist, and they will be a test for us. The life on Earth is always going to be Bad Guy VS Good Guy.

We pray to Allah to frogive this man, and to defeat the Free Masons who are promised Jahannam, were all their plots and plans will be of no use to them.

One advice, dear readers. In order to step towards Khilaafah and uniy, we must take out any racism, arrogance, or hatred from our hearts for our Muslim brothers from different nationalities.

Please, dedicate this month in inviting a Muslim freind to your house ONLY for the sake of Allaah. Make sure he or she is from a different nationality. Learn from him or her and teach him or her.

May Allaah give us the ability to bring back the ummah with the least violonce possible. Ameen.

Ottoman in military capacity where invincible number 1. They didn’t consolidate and culture the people in the lands they conquered that is why they where lost so easily also.

With ijtihad closed many centuries previously, when new problems arose like new technology the islamic state couldn’t handle them and so began their decline as a power. Any future islamic state will learn from these errors inshallah.

1881, Thessaloniki, (now Greece)- November 10, 1938, Istanbul) Founder of the modern republic of Turkey.

His original name was Mustafa Kemal, and the honorary title “Atatürk” was bestowed upon him as late as 1934, by the Grand National Assembly, and means “Father of the Turks”.

Atatürk’s achievements were many, but most were formed after clear Western ideals. Atatürk believed that the traditional way of running Muslim countries had outlived itself, and that Turkey’s chances of surviving the future as well as gaining new strength would only be achieved through adopting principles from the European countries, which at that time had outdistanced Turkey in all fields.

His reforms included imposing regulations that hindered the use of central elements in the Oriental clothing style, introduction of the Latin alphabet for Turkish, reduction of the centrality of Islam in Turkish public life, equality of all citizens regardless of religion, emancipation of women and regular education of the masses. He introduced a political system that took many elements from Western systems, but he never allowed political pluralism, allowing only his own Republican People’s party.

Atatürk’s governmental structure had a unicameral parliament, an administration that had to answer for the quality of its achievements, as well as an effective bureaucracy. What was intended to become modern Turkey was defined from 6 principles:
• Republicanism
• Nationalism
• Populism
• Statism (State control over the basic means of production, where the banks were used as the administrative body)
• Secularism
• Revolutionism
The price of Atatürk’s modernization was principally felt by his political rivals, which he had removed from power by 1926, when Kemal had them accused of assassination conspiracy. Atatürk’s Turkey was never established as a democracy, but it relied heavily on the allegiance from the bureaucracy, and the country’s wealthy citizens.

The other victim of Atatürk was the traditional way of governing Islam. Islam ceased to be the state religion, and the Caliphate was abolished, an institution of great symbolic importance for many Muslims inside and outside the former Ottoman empire.

I have simple questions for all Muslims who are living in North America and who are against Ataturk and support a Khalifah type Islamic government.

What valid answer you have for leaving your Islamic country and coming to America or Canada which is dominated by Non-Islamic culture, legal system and education (all secular)?

Do you think Pakistan could have become so advanced in science and technology as it is now if it was under a Khalifah rule and Mullahs would have pronounced the Fatwah that “all new things are Shaitaan’s work and against Islam.

1. I did not leave a Muslim country to live here. I was born and raised here as were generations of my ancestors.

2. I am here to help in the spread of Islam. The Muslim countries themselves, because of colonialism, Western intellectual domination, to general ignorance of the Deen, inferiority complexes, etc. do not remotely govern by Islamic Law. If there was a Muslim state governing by Islam, there is a strong chance i’d be there–but then, like i said, there is a need for Muslims to be in the West teaching and propagating Islam. Certainly, i hope to die and be buried in a Muslim country.

3. Your mullah question is slanted in itself. I don’t want to argue whether of not Pakistan is “advanced” (i am assuming you mean “advanced” in technology–not morally or spiritually) or not. Let it just be said that it is Fardul-Kifaayah (Communally Obligatory) for Muslims to innovate and lead the way in matters of technology, medicine, military sciences, commerce, etc. The reason why Muslims are in the relatively backwards state regarding technology, is because (many) Muslims are ignorant of their Religion.

4. Lastly, regarding the despicable devil, Must Kemal (may Allah’s damn be upon him), the simple question would be: How did Kemal’s policies help himself or the Muslims in their graves, and how will they help the him or the Muslims on the Judgment Day?

What I found Muslims who born in America and learnt Islam from Islamic scholars who are also well educated in secular education, understand Islam much better for their spiritual duties as well as duties to mankind. Islamic scholars say 85% of the Holy Quran discusses “Haqqul Ebaad” duties towards mankind and only 15% relates to prayers and other spiritual duties.

Muslims are supposed to be the peace-makers of the world, not peace-breakers.

That brings me to a disturbing situation that many Muslims consider America as an evil country as well as anti-Islam. What I found is Muslims have full freedom in America to practice, preach and propagate Islam. I am posting the following quote:

“In fact, religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States… Islam has 5 million to 6 million members, followed by Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million….. And Islam is believed to be fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half from conversions.” By ELSA C. ARNETT Knight-Ridder News Servicehttp://islamicity.com/Mosque/aboutislam.htm

You made a point “What will happen in grave?” Are you aware, even the Holy Prophet did not know what will happen to him after his death? Read the following verse from the Holy Quran:

[46:9] Say, “I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warmer.”

The point I am making is let no one should say, if you do this, you go to heaven and if you do that you go to Hell. Only Allah knows if Ataturk will go to Hell, or be forgiven for his real intention to make Turkey a strong country. May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong.

Attaturk was a horrible man. He did not live according to Islam, and he did not die upon Islam. This is well known and documented, so to say Allah only knows where he will go, its true, BUT, its also known that Islam is not some happy go lucky everyone goes to heaven club. This is what seperates us from other religions, we have not and insha’allah will not change our deen to appease the times.

This man destroyed the Caliphate, and made Turkey in to the extremely SECULAR and ANTI-ISLAMIC nation it is now. In the constitution, you can say whatever you want about Allah and his Messengers (Peace be upon them all), but to denounce Attaturk is a crime. Go look up if you don’t believe me.
His face is everywhere, ‘cult of the personality’, we don’t even have pictures of the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) on our walls. This guy was an ego-maniac.
Lastly, he persecuted the muslims. It is well known that the hijab problem in Turkey is a product of his policies, while he tried to make Salat and the Qur’an into Turkish not Arabic and only backtracked later on due to so much opposition. Lastly, how many Taqriqas and sufi brotherhoods had to operate underground because of him?!

So maybe he tried to make Turkey better but on what principles?! Principles of kuffr, imitating the kuffr, lol, it is known that he behaved just like the western leaders of the time, a real case of identity crisis, like so many people during the times of colonialism and ‘white-man superiority’. So to claim that a man who HATED islam, persecuted muslims, and openly accepted and practiced kuffr without no acknowledgement of Allah’s presence (taqwa), will go to heaven?

Astarghfillah, soon people will be saying that only Allah knows what will happen to Hitler and Stalin, because although they were non-believers, they did not know about Islam!

Even if people migrated to the West, its got nothing to do with their so called ‘Islamic’ home countries being terrible compared to the West’s freedoms.

Of course I am grateful for the freedom to practice my religion the West offers compared to some so called Islamic states, and the quality of life that can be enjoyed here.

BUT, colonialism only ended what?! 50 years ago for some people. The west has enjoyed how many years start to develop, plus exploiting so much of the wealth and resources of these other states in order to further its development.
Furthermore, the West continues to set the status quo, many of these unjust rulers are kept in place for this very reason, or either they are a product of watching and experiencing Western colonialism.

LOL, we have all seen what happens when people tow the line of democracy but its not appreciated, i.e, HAMAS and Gaza now.

So many people here, of course we would LOVE to live in an Islamic country, but where can we go?! And secondly, many of us have every right to come live in the West considering how much they have screwed up our own countries, i.e, the huge soar of immigrants from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Who invaded these countries again and is supposedly improving their lives?

I have no choice but to accept what you said about Turkey because I do not know anything about Turkey. But what you said about your reasons for coming to West has no merit. Some even may call it lies.

You said:

“Many of us have every right to come live in the West considering how much they have screwed up our own countries”

So you hated West for their colonization in the past and you came here to screw them. Who will buy this lame argument?

You know well but do not want to accept that you came to the West for better education, better health care, better job, more income and better living condition and may be freedom from corrupt governments back home. The truth is you came for material life, not spiritual life. I am not saying material life is Haraam. As long as you improve material life honestly and without sacrificing your spiritual duties, there should be no conflict with Islam. But my problem is you did not say the truth why you came to West. As a Muslim, I expected you to say nothing but the truth.

Muslims do not have full freedom to practice their Religion in America. Regarding Kemal, the Qur’an tells of what those of his ilk will face:

“Certainly whoever disbelieves and dies in the state of disbelief, never never they be accepted even if they were to ransom an earth filled with gold. They have in store for them tremendous torture and they will find no helpers.” (3: 91)

Kemal and his crew of kaafirs were (and remain to be) open enemies of Islam. We know that the kaafir goes to Hell forever, and that the kaafir who opposes Islam has a more severe torture in Hell. And before they are tortured in Hell, they are tortured in the grave, and then tortured down in Sijjeen until their carcasses decay. Then they are tortured on the Day of Resurrection–and then thrown into the Inferno. The Verse you quoted does not stand as a proof for your claim. The Prophet did not know all the future, but he knew that he was promised Paradise by Allah–afterall, he was a Prophet of Allah.

Meaning: A half learned physician is a danger to life
A half learned Mullah is a danger to faith (religion)

Over 90 % of Muslims in this world including you and I have learned Islam either from our parents who were not fully educated in Islam or from Mullahs in Madarsa and Imams in Masjids who were also not fully educated in Islam. Most of us followed what our ancestors did.

Thanks to Allah we now have TVs where we can listen to fully educated Islamic scholars sitting in our homes plus there are so many programs and lectures on Islam all over America and in Western countries.

Now some of the points you raised:

“Muslims do not have full freedom to practice their Religion in America.”

May be you are talking about you are not allowed to have 4 wives.

For your information, having 4 wives is not a pre-requisite to be a Muslim.

You quoted the Aya from the Holy Quran:

“Certainly whoever disbelieves and dies in the state of disbelief, never they be accepted even if they were to ransom an earth filled with gold. They have in store for them tremendous torture and they will find no helpers.” (3: 91)

What proof do you have that Ataturk did not believe in Allah. Just because he may have done lots of sins, does this mean he automatically became Kafir.

The killers of Khalifas Omar, Usman and Ali were all Muslims. Yazeed who killed Imam Hussain the grandson of the Holy Prophet was also Muslim and died as Muslim. What could be worst sin than this, yet no one ever said Yazeed was Kafir.

I know Muslims call each other kafirs when they do not agree with each other. We even cannot call a Jew or Christian Kafir. Allah never calls them Kafirs. Allah calls them people of Books and Muslim men are allowed to marry Jew and Christian women but not Kafir women. The Holy Prophet allowed Christians to enter his mosque in Medina and perform their Christian prayer. If they were Kafirs, how could the Holy Prophet allow them to enter his mosque?

In the year 10 A.H. (631 CE), Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received a delegation of sixty Christians from Najran in Medinah. The territory of Najran was located south of Bani Khath’am near Yemen, about 450 miles south of Medinah. They were received in the Prophet’s mosque, and the Prophet allowed them to pray in the mosque, which they did facing East. This group of Christians followed Byzantine rite. Read more here http://cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty631.htm

You said all that will happen to Kafirs but you are not aware that Allah can forgive a kafir who has done some good work to please Him.

Read the following story from n Hadith.

A companion of the Holy Prophet saw in dream that a Jew Prostitute went to heaven. Next day he went to the Holy Prophet and asked him how could this happen. The Holy Prophet replied that one day this women gave water to a thirsty dog who was dying of thirst, by carrying water into her slipper. The dog’s life was saved. Allah was so pleased that he forgave her entire sins and granted her heaven.

Allah’s Apostle said, “A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that.” (Volume 4, Book 54, Number 538)

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “While a dog was going round a well and was about to die of thirst, an Israeli [Jewish] prostitute saw it and took off her shoe and watered it. So Allah forgave her because of that good deed.” (Volume 4, Book 56, Number 673)

So you brelieve any ruler who does not rule by the Book of Allah (i.e. rules by other than Sharia) is a kafir

For your information there are more than 50 Islamic countires in the world. Can you name one ruler who rules according to your version of Sharia so you can call him a Muslim not a Kafir? Tell us the name of Muslim ruler and the country he rules.

1) If your no expert on Turkey, then why are you acting like the expert on Attaturk?! Go read up about his life!

2) No one is saying we are coming here to SCEW up these Western countries.

“Of course I am grateful for the freedom to practice my religion the West offers compared to some so called Islamic states, and the quality of life that can be enjoyed here.” (from my previous post)

But many of us have a right to come here for a better quality of life, WHICH I STATED BEFORE, because of COLONIALISM, hence Britain has and continues to have such an open door policy concerning immigration NOW, and YOU WILL NEVER SEE THE BRITISH FLAG paraded too much.

But this argument why are people here if they don’t like the West sometimes gets old. Life is a two way street, maybe in the States you are supposed to act like America is the best, even if it is there foreign policy that contributed to your home country suffering, i.e, the recent Palestinians who moved to California

So you believe “every ruler today is committing kufr”. In other words according to you all rulers of Islamic countries are Kafirs. I guess that is the reason why you prefer to live here in America away from Kafir ruled countries. Have you thought of leaving this planet where kafirs are ruling everywhere, according to you, even in Mecca and Medina.

All I will say May Allah give you intelligence and wisdome to understand what is Kufr and Kafir.

No one knows except Allah/God who is Kafir……When a Kafir Quraish said Shahadah probably to save his life when fighting with Ali, Ali who was sitting on his chest, killed him with his sword……when the Holy Prophet heard that Ali killed a man after he said Shahadah (acceptance of Islam) he asked Ali, “Why did you kill the man after he accepted Islam……..Ali said “he said the Shahdah to save his life……The holy prophet asked Ali……..did you go into his heart if he said by fear or true belief……Lesson is…….only God/Allah knows who is a Kafir.

The lesson here is once a person says Shahadah, he is no longer a Kafir and no one has a right to call that person Kafir.

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall the translator of the Holy Quran into English says “Our Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself said that the term Kafir was not to be applied to anyone who said “Salam” (peace) to the Muslims.
Visit http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/toleran1.html

Dear Dear al-suyuufi

I will no longer respond to your messages because I believe you have been brain-washed by fanatics. May Allah Help you.

The knowledge of the Deen is taken at the feet of the learned–it’s not learned from Sheikh Al-Googliyy or from the idiot box.

Having more than one wife is not a requisite for Islam, but no Muslim denies its permissibility. In the West, a person is put in jail for polygyny. So much for so-called “freedom of Religion.” That’s in addition to numerous other matters of the Deen, such as, not being able to call the adhaan over speakers, or not being allowed to order the good and forbid the evil (in many cases) because of the ensuing harm that would result, and on and on. Yes, the States, in some matters, makes it easier for Muslims than even in some Islamic countries. Nonetheless, Muslims do not have the “freedom to practice their religion”–and that should not be surprising, afterall, we do not live in a “free” society.

Regarding Kemal, he showed OPEN HATRED for Islam and he deemed the halal “haram” and vise versa. That’s belying the Religion. And belying the Religion is kufr, and kufr is a greater sin than murder. The Muslim murderer may be forgiven by Allah for his sins. The one who dies as kaafir is condemned to Hell forever. You are correct in noting that simply committing a sin is not kufr. But you left out a part: if a person deems a sin “halaal” while knowing that it is forbidden, then he blasphemes–even if he did not do the sinful act.

Must, see this is the problem why people need to learn the Deen: so they don’t say statements of kufr out of their ignorance. The Christians and Jews ARE KAAFIRS! No two Muslims disagree upon that. Imam Al-Juwayniyy said:

“Whoever elects for himself a religion other than Islam, then he is a kaafir, and who doubts that such a person is a kaafir, then he himself is a kaafir. And if a person claims he does not want to take a position one way or the other [regarding the person’s kufr], then, he is also a kaafir.”

I’ll make it easier:

“Whoever elects for himself a religion other than Islam, IT WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED FROM HIM and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.” (3: 85)

The Christians and Jews are condemned to Hell–FOREVER! The Qur’an says:

“Whoever does not believe in Allah AND HIS MESSENGER [Muhammad], then they are disbelievers (kaafireena) for whom Allah has prepared Hell.” (Al-Fath, 13)

The Jews don’t believe in Allah. The Jews worship an imaginary anthropomorphic entity that they claim gets tired and is weak and ignorant. That’s not Allah. That’s a (imaginary) creation. The Christians don’t believe in Allah–they worship Jesus and an imaginary trinity. Furthermore, neither group of them even pretends to believe in Prophet Muhammad. The Prophet said:

“Any Jew or Christian who hears about me and my Message, but does not believe, then he is a denizen of Hell.” (Muslim)

Must, you are OBVIOUSLY confused about some of the elementary matters of Doctrine. Every non-Muslim is a kaafir. Now if he or she is in a state of takleef (legal accountability), that’s another story. Obviously, when i say the kaafirs are condemned to Hell, i am talking about those who are legally responsible. Some other corrections: the Prophet did not allow Christians to pray in his Mosque. The story is a fabrication.

Another point: simply b/c a Muslim MALE can marry a Christian or Jewess, it does not logically follow that such people are “Believers.” A Believer–by the definition of the Qur’an includes a person who:

—Believes in Allah, Prophet Muhammad, the Holy Qur’an, and the Judgment Day. (2: 285) Again, the Jews an Christians don’t even pretend to believe in Prophet Muhammad or the Qur’an, and they have ill beliefs about Allah. They are NOT Believers. Furthermore the Qur’an is EXPLICIT in referring to these people as kaafir:

“Certainly, they blaspheme, who say Jesus, the son of Mary is Allah.”

“Certainly, they blaspheme who say Allah is the third of three.”

“Certainly those who disbelieve (kafaroo) from the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] and the pagans are in the Hell forever. They are the worst of the creations.”

Regarding the prostitute, she was an ISRAELITE, that is, from the Tribes of Israel. She lived at a time BEFORE Prophet Muhammad; she did not have a bad belief about Allah; she did not reject any of Allah’s Prophets. We know that Allah MAY forgive any sin which is less than shirk (or other forms of disbelief). However, we know that the one who dies as a disbeliever goes to Hell forever.

I implore you to learn about Islam and not to speak without knowledge.

I am not here to debate with Muslims like al-suyuufi and Swarth who have been probably, educated in Islam by Neem Mullahs (half learned Mullahs) who the worst problem for Islam and Muslims.

Also those who say Christians and Jews are Kafirs, then why Allah says the following in the Holy Quran?

Verily those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), the Christians and the Sabians any who believe In Allah and the last day, and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord (They will not be overcome by fear nor grief.)” [Qur’an 2:62]

I have decided, I will not participate in debate with any Muslim who has different beliefs than me. I am not saying they are sinners. Allah knows that they have true love for Allah and Rasool and whatever they have learnt, even against true teaching of Islam by half learned Mullahs, they will be rewarded for their love for Islam.

Kamal at a Turk was most likely a Jew. what swarh moor fails to realize is Islam is a fake religion, man made like judaism and Christinaty. So if Kamal at a Turk is in hell, so is Mohammed, because both are proven liars.

Frank, for your information, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad are Messengers of God and the messages they delivered, came from God. Their teachings are not man-made teachings.

Read this quote:

Rome, Head of Catholic Church says “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, (Ignatius Press, 1994) Para. 841 Hereafter Catechism 5. Vatican Council II: The Conciliar and Post Conciliar Documents, No. 56, Nostra Aetate, Austin P. Flannery, ed. (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdsmans Publishing Co., 1975 & 1984) Vol. I., pp. 739-740. Hereafter Vatican II.)

Mustafa, Juadiasm is a false religion, it relies on fake stories like abraham, adam and eve, noahs ark, etc. Islam is fake like Judaism and Chrstianity. Dudes who think Mohammed is a prophet, are gone to hell like dudes tho think Jesus is a prophet.+

“Whoever does not believe in Allah AND HIS MESSENGER [Muhammad], then they are disbelievers (kaafireen) for whom Allah has prepared Hell.” (Al-Fath, 13)

The verse you quoted (2: 62) refers to the GENUINE FOLLOWERS of the Prophets of their time. The Prophet of this time is Muhammad Al-Ameen. The Jews and Christians and Sabeans REJECT Prophet Muhammad–hence, they are kuffaar (in addition to their shirk and other forms of disbelief). This is the standard belief of the Muslims.

Must, my advice to you is that you learn about Islam and STOP SPEAKING WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE. You are destroying yourself because of your ignorance/kufr, so please learn, don’t speak upon that which you know not, and repent of your disbelief.

i pity the ottomans,, it was the domneh muslims ( followers of sabbatai zevi ) ,, who began the downfall of the once great and mighty ottoman empire.,sadly which the pasha’s and caliphs then didnt realize.
and to know what really happened , the propaganda and mishaps.
the entire world war I was perfectly staged to get the ottomans out , and more importantly the Khalifa system of islam out of the picture.
this marked the death of islam.
ottomans were fighting armies from all sides, the brits, the saudis who were funded by the bits, and the domneh.
very soon, you’ll find the same domneh ( now presently in power ) who will put the entire turkish population, at stake of a war.
try seeking the ultimate truth, you’ll find most of what is taught or generally believed , is rarely true, mostly the negation of reality.
you think the saudi’s , i mean ( the house of saud ) follow islam ?