After months of processing, and thousands of dollars, my wife and son have been granted permanent residence in Canada.

My excited wife bought her ticket, and then realized it stopped in Newark, where she would change planes and come on to Halifax.

Of course, to stop in the States, she needs a transit visa. So she books an appointment, and pays in advance, 2200 RMB, over $300, prepares $10,000 cash to show the consulate official, as well as our marriage certificate, Canadian visa, property ownership documents, our sons relevant documents and heads in.

She is then told that she has been denied straight off without an examination of her documents or funds. Apparently she isn't suitable to spend a couple hours at the Newark airport.

From her skype with me just now, when asked the reason they used to deny her:

I don't have social economic and family ties outside of the united state

I'm currently buying a new ticket, as the old one had been non-refundable.

All my family lives in Montana, Oregon and California, and we have been Americans for generations plus native blood.

Thank you for enacting a policy which prevents my wife and son from treading on our proud soil.

Some of you will think, but wait, your son at least should be a US citizen. But you would be wrong. If your child is born overseas and you can't show that you had lived in America for 2 years after the age of 14, they lose the right to citizenship.

_sabotage_ wrote:After months of processing, and thousands of dollars, my wife and son have been granted permanent residence in Canada.

My excited wife bought her ticket, and then realized it stopped in Newark, where she would change planes and come on to Halifax.

Of course, to stop in the States, she needs a transit visa. So she books an appointment, and pays in advance, 2200 RMB, over $300, prepares $10,000 cash to show the consulate official, as well as our marriage certificate, Canadian visa, property ownership documents, our sons relevant documents and heads in.

She is then told that she has been denied straight off without an examination of her documents or funds. Apparently she isn't suitable to spend a couple hours at the Newark airport.

From her skype with me just now, when asked the reason they used to deny her:

I don't have social economic and family ties outside of the united state

I'm currently buying a new ticket, as the old one had been non-refundable.

All my family lives in Montana, Oregon and California, and we have been Americans for generations plus native blood.

Thank you for enacting a policy which prevents my wife and son from treading on our proud soil.

Some of you will think, but wait, your son at least should be a US citizen. But you would be wrong. If your child is born overseas and you can't show that you had lived in America for 2 years after the age of 14, they lose the right to citizenship.

The land of the free, and home of the brave.

I'm so sorry for you reading that story,I'm an expat as well with some experience of faceless beauracracy.F@ck 'em all...

I have had more than my share of dealing with US bureaucracy. At great expense in time and money. But, buggeration, they must have ramped up the nonsense since my last encounter if you can't even bloody well change planes. Sod 'em all.

I've travelled a lot, and I've encountered pointless and expensive bureaucracy in many places. Make that "most places". US customs people are right up ther in the top of the "pointless regulations" league however.Never been to Mexico, so I can't speak to that. I suspect that I'm too honest to understand when people people are hinting "bribe me", sometimes.

_sabotage_ wrote:Some of you will think, but wait, your son at least should be a US citizen. But you would be wrong. If your child is born overseas and you can't show that you had lived in America for 2 years after the age of 14, they lose the right to citizenship.

interesting... that's going to make having kids a problem for me, unless they treat the military differently...

John Adams wrote:I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three or more become a Congress! And by God I have had this Congress!

My boy started coughing within a few months of birth, we did live in the middle of the PRD, a 150 km corridor of 70 million souls, known as the factory of the world.

Do I want to return to the US? Not really sure. Becoming a father definitely opens up a whole new realm of responsibility. I would like my son to have an open mind, trust in his fellow man and the importance of character over financial success. I would also like him to have a sense of place in the world. If you could offer some advice, I would consider it.

My biggest worry is that children are forced into conformity and indoctrinated into a fixed ideology that doesn't represent a positive future outlook and confines their development.

I don't know. If I had a solid suggestion I guess I'd be there and invite you.

I certainly don't think Canada is the worst choice but it certainly seems much less a place I want to live with my kids. It's like any plantation or work camp. There's certain benifits, the weather isn't my thing.

The biggest problem with the best place to live is if you're not wealthy enough you can't leave if some other country with a military decides to "rescue" you from the local government.

If you want these things for your child, then raise him / her that way. It doesn't matter where the hell you do it - good and bad people are spawned and raised everywhere. Make the difference as a parent.

_sabotage_ wrote:My boy started coughing within a few months of birth, we did live in the middle of the PRD, a 150 km corridor of 70 million souls, known as the factory of the world.

Do I want to return to the US? Not really sure. Becoming a father definitely opens up a whole new realm of responsibility. I would like my son to have an open mind, trust in his fellow man and the importance of character over financial success. I would also like him to have a sense of place in the world. If you could offer some advice, I would consider it.

My biggest worry is that children are forced into conformity and indoctrinated into a fixed ideology that doesn't represent a positive future outlook and confines their development.

Leading by example can be tough but it's far more effective. I couldn't figure out the great things my Dad tried to tell me when I was young. I just noticed he watched a lot of television when he wasn't working.

I guess he didn't figure out the good ideas until he was too busy working to buy his kids crap they thought was important because the other kids said it was.

Thing is he was right in that also. As you've noted your kid is the most important thing.

One thing that is still good about Canada is you can set him up with a brother or sister here.

2dimes wrote:Leading by example can be tough but it's far more effective. I couldn't figure out the great things my Dad tried to tell me when I was young. I just noticed he watched a lot of television when he wasn't working.

I guess he didn't figure out the good ideas until he was too busy working to buy his kids crap they thought was important because the other kids said it was.

Thing is he was right in that also. As you've noted your kid is the most important thing.

One thing that is still good about Canada is you can set him up with a brother or sister here.

Great, it had to be lead by example? Here boy watch how your daddy gets shit on at the embassy and posts about it on an anon forum. What if my example had been fucked?

BBS, married to a 17 month old for life. I will be see him as a newborn when he's 14 and asking WHY? he can't do herion, didn't you used to say you think drugs should be legal?

Obviously BBS was suggesting your wife was the terrorist in the situation, and to some degree he is right, because it wouldn't be the first time unfortunately, but he is also insanely hypocritical on this because its an example of Government probably going too far, which he usually is against, but instead abandons that because of a personal bias against you. There will be an arrogant answer about how he was right on this occasion as he is right in every instance that he ever posts, which is unfortunate, because it makes every post suspect of bias.

Anyways, obviously your wife did make a mistake buying the wrong ticket, though assuming she was just going to get on the connecting flight to Canada with your child, clearly the customs guy made a mistake. I feel bad for you though, and don't let this little hiccup stop you....and next time, you'll just have to be more careful of the laws governing traveling from China to Canada via the US.

It's not surprising that the statement, "The risk of Chinese spies, yo," becomes distorted into "BBS was suggesting your wife was the terrorist in the situation" (AAFitz) or 'Sure, BBS, my child is a spy/terrorist!' (sabotage). Gentlemen, the Accidental Strawmen thread beckons y'all for more examples.

IIRC, sabotage mentioned somewhere that his wife is of Chinese ethnicity, and if the youtube videos are his actual kid and his wife talking/filming, then this further supports my recollection.

This thread is another example of unintended consequences:Instead of focusing on the morality and policy of national security, at first I was more interested in the fact that some people become frustrated about the unintended consequences of a government's defense agencies (e.g. TSA). The risk of Chinese spies from the ongoing intelligence conflict between the US and China has induced the US government to further enact liberty-curtailing activities on US citizens and foreign nationals. Unfortunately, this imposes costs on people who do not deserve it--presumably, sabotage's family. They've become innocent victims of the USG's obtuse net-casting.

Sometimes the source of frustration stems from an incomplete picture about the causes and consequences. "The risk of Chinese spies" is but one, brief explanation--which unfortunately no one questioned, but instead filled in their own assumptions and implications without the need of my verification. From the Ministry of State Security's perspective having an agent marry a Canadian/American and having a child provides a great cover for clandestine operations. Of course, most of these samples are not spies--but there is the risk that some of them are spies, thus sabotage's family unfortunately experienced the net of US national security.

Instead of railing against each other, we should be concerned about the unintended consequences of public policy. I look forward to the day when we can all redirect our criticism from each other and toward the fundamental concerns, the US and Chinese governments. Thanks, that is all.

_sabotage_ wrote:After months of processing, and thousands of dollars, my wife and son have been granted permanent residence in Canada.

My excited wife bought her ticket, and then realized it stopped in Newark, where she would change planes and come on to Halifax.

Of course, to stop in the States, she needs a transit visa. So she books an appointment, and pays in advance, 2200 RMB, over $300, prepares $10,000 cash to show the consulate official, as well as our marriage certificate, Canadian visa, property ownership documents, our sons relevant documents and heads in.

She is then told that she has been denied straight off without an examination of her documents or funds. Apparently she isn't suitable to spend a couple hours at the Newark airport.

From her skype with me just now, when asked the reason they used to deny her:

I don't have social economic and family ties outside of the united state

I'm currently buying a new ticket, as the old one had been non-refundable.

All my family lives in Montana, Oregon and California, and we have been Americans for generations plus native blood.

Thank you for enacting a policy which prevents my wife and son from treading on our proud soil.

Some of you will think, but wait, your son at least should be a US citizen. But you would be wrong. If your child is born overseas and you can't show that you had lived in America for 2 years after the age of 14, they lose the right to citizenship.

The land of the free, and home of the brave.

Isn't it 5 years?

Also, if you are a US citizen your wife can apply for a resident permit first, but she has to stay out of the country while the process goes on, that it's 1 year. I know this because a friend applied for his wife, who had to stay in Mexico for 1 year. But I don't know about your son.

And also, if you want, have your wife and son to fly to Tijuana, I know a guy that can help em cross the border. BTW, when arriving at the airport, if someone asks them for their passport, you know to fill the form and all that, your wife can just flip em off, they won't do anything.

Last edited by nietzsche on Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I know they have no mercy, but the ticket was bought. I spent three hours talking with the travel agent trying to redirect the booking so she could fly straight into Canada. They wanted three times the cost of the ticket to do it. So forfeit or try for the visa. She didn't exactly want to have to spend another $300 to get a visa, but since we spent it, it would have been nice if she got it.

Thank you nietzsche, but I am not trying to get my wife and kid smuggled into the US, arrested in Mexico or become US residents, I have just spent 8 months separated from them while applying for their Canadian permanent residences and at the moment, I'm not feeling like visiting the US.

And it was two years two years ago according to the consulate officer.