In no way should it have ever been acceptable to absolve oneself of their worth or guilt by thanking/blaming god. I don't thank the priest walking down the street for the ground they walk on, I thank the people that put the time and effort into doing their job.

You'll defend god, but am I not allowed to defend the doctor? the civil engineer? the pharmacist? the teacher? the policeman? I doubt they'll ever care or hear. But why can't I thank them for devoting, sacrificing, and even risking their lives just so ours can stay NORMAL. They live, breathe, work, and inevitably die just for the sake of normality. Just to keep the wheels turning. You will never know their names, you will never understand the anxiety filled hours they spent hunched over a textbook, or the time they've lost with their family because they were saving someone else's. But it wasn't god who compelled them to. It wasn't god who wrote their thesis paper or earned their degrees for them.

You may think you're lucky enough to get just the right person on just the right day to save your life, but in reality the fact that they EXCEL at what they do is the reason they were there to begin with. The world as a whole acknowledges and promotes the success of individuals. There is no need or place in the system for god.

He is there for none of the blame, so why is he present for the reward?
Answer: He isn't. IF there is a god, and I don't care one way or another, He/She/It doesn't care one way or another if you include them in your system.

You might think it's harmless, but the cracks in the ground will soon become faults, and it's already too late by the time the ground is being torn apart right under you.

The issue is the word 'compel'. I completely understand what you are saying about defending the nameless civil servants who keep society going. I am studying to become a doctor myself.

But the word 'compel' is the crux of the problem. And as a disclaimer, I am not trying to be combative or argumentative by using the word 'problem', although it admittedly sounds like the beginning of a 'you're wrong, i'm right' argument. That's not what I mean by it. No hard feelings intended.

I just mean that as long as you think that we (the religious people) think that God forces (or compels or whatever) people to do what they do, you will not understand. You paint a picture of a very active God, one who compels people down a path and writes their papers and earns their degrees. That's not what we're insinuating at all.

Of course we'd prefer to have our own names attributed to our achievements. It's a very human sense of pride. If my med school diploma said 'God' instead of my name I'd be pissed, and I'm Christian. No, our achievements are our own. Of course they are. But it is God that gave us the ability to achieve them.

God makes things possible. He opens doors. He does not force people through them. That is the critical distinction.

Hurr heres a antigod comment, Hey atheists come laugh at this huurr.
You dont know the family. They could be grateful for the doctor and not give two ***** about a miracle happening. This was not a matter of religion and yet you seemed it necessary to lower yourself to christian bashing.

It's only a miracle in the sense that anything that ever happens is a miracle.

If a leaf falls somewhere on the ground it's a miracle, because out of all the possible combinations og places to land (given wind) and the time it actually landed (when it fell) the odds of actually landing at THAT combination was infinitely small.

The sun rising every day given the properties of the univers is as far away from a miracle as you can get. But if you assume that the laws of the univers could actually be different from what they were today(we honestly don't know if it's even possible), and that the movement and behavior of matter resulting in the exact compostion and relation they are today could in theory have bee different, then yes it's a miracle in the same sense that a falling leaf is one.

Sunrise however, given the state of the universe as of now, is almost the opposite of a miracle

I agree with you.
Its not god that gave us the advancements in science, or the understanding of how the human body works. We did that. Humans.
of course there are things that are out of our control that we don't understand, but that is simply because we haven't learned about them or how they work scientifically.
I don't believe in god. I believe in Humanity.

You have a valid point but I hope you don't think the average religious person would think in that way. I went to a Christian school for a long time and kids are taught things like praying for somebody's well being is good but doesn't mean much if you don't actively help a person out when they need it.

And I say you can suck my dick
Surgeons don't train and study for years to learn how to have god work miracles through them.
If my friend needed a heart transplant, and I just showed up and did it, it's fair game for people to claim it was a miracle of god working through me, but if someone ******* dedicates their life to learn how to perform a surgery, it's not a miracle when they do so.

Why do things have to be unique to be miracles? Is today's society so jaded by death, so used to it, that saving a life is only a miracle if it comes from someone totally unlikely? I'd argue that EVERY instance of saving a life is a miracle. Surgeon or random passerby, a person has just been rescued from the end of his or her life, for crying out loud!

I'd even go further and argue that what you just said belittles doctors even more than thanking God does. You just essentially said that it's not amazing when doctors save lives, just because they've trained for it. I'm studying to become a doctor, and I've heard a fair amount of them talk about their profession (either through documentaries or face-to-face interviews). All of them - religious or not - know the immense responsibility, the sometimes impossible odds, the simply massive weight upon their shoulders. None of them finish an operation and wipe their forehead, mutter 'one down, three to go', and move on. Each life is unbelievably precious, and each life saved is itself an amazing victory. But to say that their successes aren't miracles just because they actually trained for them? You sound like you're really taking them for granted. Learn some appreciation.

Everyone just needs to learn to read the bible. It's the only book you need. Doctors and other 'scientists' are all going to hell. And apparently I'm being sucked into an alternate dimension housed inside a baboon's ass.

"The Pew survey was not without its bright spots for the devout. Eight in 10 people surveyed knew that Mother Teresa was Catholic. Seven in 10 knew that, according to the Bible, Moses led the exodus from Egypt and that Jesus was born in Bethlehem."

How is 7 out of 10 a bright spot? Assuming none of the people asked were very young children, this should ALLWAYS be 1at minimum 10/10 for christians. You can litterally ask 1000 random people in the street in say, norway ( a highly atheistic/agnostic country), and 950+ will get this question right immediately

Its kind of obvious what the results would be. the average Christian doesn't grow up and get into evangelism or anything. but nearly every atheist develops some sort of argument against Christianity. There are people on both sides that know alot about the bible, but from my personal experience, (high school, which probably explains why I jumped to conclusions with my first comment) the Christians I know have more knowledge about the bible then the atheists I know. but thanks for the link to the article

stop assuming things. I wasnt raised Christian, but I met an evangelist who had an excellent arguement against atheism and for Chrisianity, and watched him in a debate. I was hard headed for a while, then thought I'd try out this jesus thing people keep talking about, and its been unbelievably good for me. yes, I own a bible and read it on a daily basis.

I thought I told you, but looking back I see I didn't. but I thought I said I don't remember the specifics exactly. but I think we may be thinking of different kinds of debates. there was quite a bit of talking about proofs for what happened during what time periods and such. this was 5 years ago man, I'm surprised I remember this much to be honest.

In my defense I was joking. No one actually thinks like that any more man. If what I believed what I wrote were true I wouldn't own a computer. I'm just busy being surprised that there are so many people who would take me seriously.

Fatben is one of the older trolls. He was an actual user for a while, got bored with the site, and decided to take a picture of his **** (literally) and post it everywhere, with the comment "fat ben made poop"

Raybingo is the same in the way. Real user who got bored. Except, with him, he posted a picture of a happy old man and repeatedly spammed "Hi, I'm Ray Bingo".

Those two are possibly the most successful trolls/spammers in the history of FJ.

I suppose by best spammer I mean the most successful spammers. And, more importantly in my opinion, they did it on their own accounts. They did it where their account could get banned, as opposed to just being an anon.

True. I suppose in this way they were successful. I just can't get over how many people take this kind of thing seriously, I mean, if I really thought that science was the devil's work I wouldn't own a computer.

First off, congrats on the name. Secondly, I never would have believed that folks would have taken me seriously. If I actually believed this stuff I wouldn't have a computer. Much less use it to look at funny pictures.

I believe that God gave the skills to the surgeons. What they do is astonishing, but a lot of the natural skills and attributes needed to become a surgeon I believe can be given by a higher power. Don't agree with me, that's fine. just my opinion.

ASIANS CAN ACTUALLY READ MINDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They can hear, and see what you're visually thinking. This is the absolute complete truth!!!!!

The reason a lot of Asians have completely expressionless faces is so they don't accidentally show facial expressions when people think things they don't like, find funny, astonishing, etc, and Asians segregate so their not nearly as susceptible to that happening.
Asians also segregate, and are untalkative to avoid accidentally saying things that are similar to what people are thinking and going to say.

Try thinking, and visually picturing things that are as wild as you can when you are around Asians, and look for Asians who give people dirty/particular looks for what appears to be for completely no reason.

What the **** did you just ******* say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the **** out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my ******* words. You think you can get away with saying that **** to me over the Internet? Think again, ******. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re ******* dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little ****. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your ******* tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will **** fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re ******* dead, kiddo.

I do agree, but there is usually a huge waiting list for organs... people die waiting for them. If this heart could have gone into, say, an 11 year old rather than an 89 year old, it should have been done. But, the guy did his waiting, found a match, paid the money (prob. insurance but w/e)....

Not exactly disagreeing with you but different hearts are suited for different people, that's how they decide who gets the heart depending on who it's most suited to in order to increase the chances of survival. It wouldn't really do an 11 year old much good if it belonged to a 50 year old man.

If you don't know what katawa shoujo is it is basically a dating sim where the main character has a heart problem and is sent to a school for disabled kids. I played for the fun and stayed for the feels. You should try it. It is free.