Bonavena was strong like Chuvalo but George wasn't able to bully Jerry, he actually had Ali on the ropes with body punches more then against Quarry as Jerry had the punch to keep him off. Bonavena was able to put the end of the line Patterson on the ropes often but Floyd stayed off enough to still outbox him for the win, and his essentially equal in Jerry would at least do the same.

Quarry may have been more "technical" than Oscar Bonavena (who wasn't) but he damn sure wasn't as durable. What good are you if you can't finish? Like I said, chin and heart have nothing to do with it... if you get stopped for whatever reason... and if it happens in almost all of your "big fights", maybe you're not so durable.

Bonavena went 58-9-1 (44) overall and was stopped just once in 68 pro fights... with 57 seconds left in the 15th round vs. Ali (3 knockdown rule). Quarry was stopped 6 times... Ali x2, Frazier x2, Norton, and Chuvalo.

He lost a lop-sided decision to a still very good Zora Folley early in his career. Quarry lost a lop-sided decision to a past prime Eddie Machen early in his career.

He dropped and outboxed a very good Gregoria Peralta over 10 rounds.

He won a close decision over Chuvalo. Chuvalo stopped Quarry.

He dropped Joe Frazier twice and lost by SD over 10 rounds. In the rematch Frazier won by 15 round decision. Frazier stopped Quarry in the 7th round and the 5th round.

He dropped Karl Mildenberger 4 times and outboxed him over 12 rounds.

He was dropped by Jimmy Ellis and lost by close decision over 12 rounds. Quarry also lost a decision to Ellis.

He beat Zora Folley by decision in their rematch, WMD10.

He outboxed Leotis Martin over 10 rounds.

He won 5 or 6 rounds vs. Ali but was stopped in the 15th round. Ali stopped Quarry in the 3rd round and the 7th round.

He dropped Floyd Patterson but lost by close decision after 10 rounds. Quarry drew with Patterson and won a close decision vs. him. Patterson dropped Quarry and Quarry dropped Patterson.

He lost a close decision vs. Ron Lyle in 1974. Bonavena was past prime.

He won every round vs. Larry Middleton. Quarry also won a decision vs. Middleton.

Quarry may have been more "technical" than Oscar Bonavena (who wasn't) but he damn sure wasn't as durable. What good are you if you can't finish? Like I said, chin and heart have nothing to do with it... if you get stopped for whatever reason... and if it happens in almost all of your "big fights", maybe you're not so durable.

Bonavena went 58-9-1 (44) overall and was stopped just once in 68 pro fights... with 57 seconds left in the 15th round vs. Ali (3 knockdown rule). Quarry was stopped 6 times... Ali x2, Frazier x2, Norton, and Chuvalo.

He lost a lop-sided decision to a still very good Zora Folley early in his career. Quarry lost a lop-sided decision to a past prime Eddie Machen early in his career.

He dropped and outboxed a very good Gregoria Peralta over 10 rounds.

He won a close decision over Chuvalo. Chuvalo stopped Quarry.

He dropped Joe Frazier twice and lost by SD over 10 rounds. In the rematch Frazier won by 15 round decision. Frazier stopped Quarry in the 7th round and the 5th round.

He dropped Karl Mildenberger 4 times and outboxed him over 12 rounds.

He was dropped by Jimmy Ellis and lost by close decision over 12 rounds. Quarry also lost a decision to Ellis.

He beat Zora Folley by decision in their rematch, WMD10.

He outboxed Leotis Martin over 10 rounds.

He won 5 or 6 rounds vs. Ali but was stopped in the 15th round. Ali stopped Quarry in the 3rd round and the 7th round.

He dropped Floyd Patterson but lost by close decision after 10 rounds. Quarry drew with Patterson and won a close decision vs. him. Patterson dropped Quarry and Quarry dropped Patterson.

He lost a close decision vs. Ron Lyle in 1974. Bonavena was past prime.

He won every round vs. Larry Middleton. Quarry also won a decision vs. Middleton.

We are talking both men at their best. Bonevena was a wild, unorthodox battler in the ring throwing shots from all angles. He was not Ali or Frazier or Norton....he was not anywhere near any of these fighters in ability. Bonevena was a class of fighter Quarry could look good beating. Quarrys loss to Chuvalo was a fluke...Jerry obviously missed the count. Quarry had the punch, speed, counterpunching ability and stamina to outpoint Ringo and I believe that is what he would do.

I think because of the Frazier fights Bonavena often gets acknowledged as a great Toe-to-Toe fighter, and Standing With Joe was an excellent achievement, But Oscar only "Constantly" Stood with Joe because Joe's exceptional pressure gave him little option to do much else,

But if we look at Oscar the rest of the time he is actually a sporadic (Mad) Bull-Rush operator, with plenty of breathers in between, if he had shown the Frazier level of commitment against Ellis..Who Knows, but he left Ellis, even a tiring Ellis, all the time between charges to Map Oscar, compose and execute, a similar thing happened with folley before (1st) If left to his own devices, Oscar would Actually Back off, Stab Clumsey Jabs, Walk off to the side (Not as smooth as Jersey Joe of course !) then suddenly Charge in, at that point Oscar was very Wild and Dangerous, he was extremely strong, but had appalling Balance, being as he is not going to be On Jerry and breathing Fire like Frazier was, I can quite vividly see Jerry using his much better footwork to keep Oscar Turning, and Jerry can fire off Vicious accurate Combo's when needs must, before slipping back to the "Lyle Blueprint" In fact it would look very similar to Jerry's fight with Chuvalo, but as stated, where George's pressure was a slow plodding constant, with little variation, compared to George, Oscar will be less dangerous most of the time, but much more dangerous some of the time, I.E. during Oscars intermittent Charges, OK so George actually caught Jerry in the 9th, in a baffling supposedly, Mis-heard count situation, I think that was a one off, particularly if Mike isnít on the undercard, a fully focused Jerry on points, clearly, but with jerry having to ride out few hairy moments.

This is a good thread...it took me off guard and I had to vote for a draw. That might change, the more I think about it. As has been noted alreaqdy, Quarry was more sophisticated, but Bonavena was stronger, more durable, and unpredictable as hell...for more so than George Chuvalo was. Quarry would have a host of other problems with Oscar than he had with the more "straight ahead" Chuvalo.

[quote=AREA 53;15620713]I think because of the Frazier fights Bonavena often gets acknowledged as a great Toe-to-Toe fighter, and Standing With Joe was an excellent achievement, But Oscar only "Constantly" Stood with Joe because Joe's exceptional pressure gave him little option to do much else,

But if we look at Oscar the rest of the time he is actually a sporadic (Mad) Bull-Rush operator, with plenty of breathers in between, if he had shown the Frazier level of commitment against Ellis..Who Knows, but he left Ellis, even a tiring Ellis, all the time between charges to Map Oscar, compose and execute, a similar thing happened with folley before (1st) If left to his own devices, Oscar would Actually Back off, Stab Clumsey Jabs, Walk off to the side (Not as smooth as Jersey Joe of course !) then suddenly Charge in, at that point Oscar was very Wild and Dangerous, he was extremely strong, but had appalling Balance, being as he is not going to be On Jerry and breathing Fire like Frazier was, I can quite vividly see Jerry using his much better footwork to keep Oscar Turning, and Jerry can fire off Vicious accurate Combo's when needs must, before slipping back to the "Lyle Blueprint" In fact it would look very similar to Jerry's fight with Chuvalo, but as stated, where George's pressure was a slow plodding constant, with little variation, compared to George, Oscar will be less dangerous most of the time, but much more dangerous some of the time, I.E. during Oscars intermittent Charges, OK so George actually caught Jerry in the 9th, in a baffling supposedly, Mis-heard count situation, I think that was a one off, particularly if Mike isnít on the undercard, a fully focused Jerry on points, clearly, but with jerry having to ride out few hairy moments.[/quote Very good ****ysis.

We are talking both men at their best. Bonevena was a wild, unorthodox battler in the ring throwing shots from all angles. He was not Ali or Frazier or Norton....he was not anywhere near any of these fighters in ability. Bonevena was a class of fighter Quarry could look good beating. Quarrys loss to Chuvalo was a fluke...Jerry obviously missed the count. Quarry had the punch, speed, counterpunching ability and stamina to outpoint Ringo and I believe that is what he would do.

Quarry may have been more "technical" than Oscar Bonavena (who wasn't) but he damn sure wasn't as durable. What good are you if you can't finish? Like I said, chin and heart have nothing to do with it... if you get stopped for whatever reason... and if it happens in almost all of your "big fights", maybe you're not so durable.

Bonavena went 58-9-1 (44) overall and was stopped just once in 68 pro fights... with 57 seconds left in the 15th round vs. Ali (3 knockdown rule). Quarry was stopped 6 times... Ali x2, Frazier x2, Norton, and Chuvalo.

He lost a lop-sided decision to a still very good Zora Folley early in his career. Quarry lost a lop-sided decision to a past prime Eddie Machen early in his career.

He dropped and outboxed a very good Gregoria Peralta over 10 rounds.

He won a close decision over Chuvalo. Chuvalo stopped Quarry.

He dropped Joe Frazier twice and lost by SD over 10 rounds. In the rematch Frazier won by 15 round decision. Frazier stopped Quarry in the 7th round and the 5th round.

He dropped Karl Mildenberger 4 times and outboxed him over 12 rounds.

He was dropped by Jimmy Ellis and lost by close decision over 12 rounds. Quarry also lost a decision to Ellis.

He beat Zora Folley by decision in their rematch, WMD10.

He outboxed Leotis Martin over 10 rounds.

He won 5 or 6 rounds vs. Ali but was stopped in the 15th round. Ali stopped Quarry in the 3rd round and the 7th round.

He dropped Floyd Patterson but lost by close decision after 10 rounds. Quarry drew with Patterson and won a close decision vs. him. Patterson dropped Quarry and Quarry dropped Patterson.

He lost a close decision vs. Ron Lyle in 1974. Bonavena was past prime.

He won every round vs. Larry Middleton. Quarry also won a decision vs. Middleton.

To be fair, on Quarry's side, he handled Ellis's power far better than Oscar did, though Oscar handled Frazier's pressure and power much better than Quarry, and was ultimately more clever than Jerry vs Chuvalo. Oscar was also mush more of a problem to Ali than Jerry was, though who knows what would have happened in the 1st Ali fight had Jerry not been cut. It was a much better Quarry in that 1st fight with Ali than in the pathetic rematch.