(13-08-2012 10:23 AM)Red Celt Wrote: This? Again? Those who are pro-gun will remain pro-gun, regardless of the facts. The same is true of those who are anti-gun. Except, they're right.

All pro-gun people should be forced to live in a relatively gun-free country, just for a bit of self-awareness (and cultural-awareness).

See? No guns. Don't have them; don't need them. Now, go back to the USA and continue your indoctrinated pro-gun life. Or get a penis-enlargement. Whatever it takes to replace that aspect of your masculinity.

Violent crime in the U.K. has not been reduced by gun control.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(13-08-2012 10:36 AM)Chas Wrote: Check the statistics. Your opinion does not stand up to the facts.

The chances of you being shot dead are much greater than the chances of me being shot dead. True or false?

I'm aware of the arguments, I really am, and you aren't going to turn me by repeating them. Your country has a problem that no other civilised country has. You can admit that truth, or you can pretend otherwise.

(13-08-2012 10:36 AM)Chas Wrote: Check the statistics. Your opinion does not stand up to the facts.

The chances of you being shot dead are much greater than the chances of me being shot dead. True or false?

I'm aware of the arguments, I really am, and you aren't going to turn me by repeating them. Your country has a problem that no other civilised country has. You can admit that truth, or you can pretend otherwise.

Y'know. Whatever.

That is the point. It is the society's propensity to crime, violence, lawlessness - it's not the fact of firearms. The U.K. has violent crime. The fact that a lower proportion of it involves firearms doesn't mean shit.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(13-08-2012 10:50 AM)Red Celt Wrote: Your country has a problem that no other civilised country has. You can admit that truth, or you can pretend otherwise.

That is the point. It is the society's propensity to crime, violence, lawlessness - it's not the fact of firearms. The U.K. has violent crime. The fact that a lower proportion of it involves firearms doesn't mean shit.

You went for option B, then.

Anyone can kill with a gun. Other forms of violence require physical effort which can be countered. So, it really does mean shit.

You mentioned the UK's gun controls. Do you mean those introduced in 1997 as a knee-jerk response to the Dunblane massacre? We weren't exactly a gun-culture prior to that. From 1997 onwards, it just made things more difficult than it already was. The rise in UK gun crime (which happened a good deal after 1997) is (in no small part) thanks to the copy-cat nature of UK gang-culture emulating the USA... well, all those rappers saying how cool guns are. So, thanks for that export.

Meanwhile, back to the country that constitutionally allows the fucking things, in the first place...

I have noticed a lot of knife stabbings in the recent UK news, as well as a rise in the overall knife stabbings throughout Europe. Might be something to look at crime-wise.
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Personally, I don't give a flying fuck about guns one way or the other. Frankly, I don't care for them, I understand their use, and am quite able regarding their use.

I was brought up around guns on my family's farm and guns were strictly a necessity. If you needed to use one, you had to ask Grandma for the ammunition.

I have my position:

Gun ownership should be restricted and distributed only to households with Grandmas. If one does not take care of the Grandma of the house, any and all guns will be removed from the premises.

You want a gun; get yourself a Grandma. I fucking dare you.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein