It's a shame that this review is slightly muddled by Yatzeeh's highly subjective dislike for sequels. If you have a developer of epic, character-driven fantasy RPGs with a setting that took years of development and still can take more development, improvement and holds countless more stories of the same or better variety, it's just plain unrealistic to expect them to do only one game and even unfair to some of the people involved like the writers to say that they had no original interest in making their games.

That said, I still happen to be in the overly-critical camp about this game. Ah, and actually, I don't find this review overall so convincing and insightful.

I liked the game personally and my only complaint was the occasional glitch and the copy/paste dungeon problem other then that I liked it a lot. Now maybe it was different for me because I can very easily put my self into the role of any race/gender/lifestyle/occupation, and that allows me to replay a game several times and continue to enjoy it. I also feel the game was just as good as dragon age origins, I'll admit I can find entertainment in a lot of games most people would scoff at and call drivel but I honestly don't see how everyone feels the game is that bad. Finally the game felt plenty epic to me I mean the first time we actually deal with the Qunari on a large scale level and the ending, I mean I play a mage in all games a game sucks for me when the mage class isn't done properly. It was a huge deal and epic for my mage and I was thoroughly happy with it and the game as a whole. Oh and on the relationship thing I'm comfortable in my hetero-sexuality so it doesn't phase me I'm not afraid of catching "the gay" and Merrill is my sweet heart and was better then any of the romances in Origins.

If you ask what DA2 is about you're as American as you can be (yea, I know I'm generalizing but FUCK YOU!).As soon as there's no "save the world from a monster" plot and the plot(s) aren't superficial anymore you start whining like a fucking child that there is no plot at all!The review by PCGamer said all that needed to be said about that topic...figures why Ben doesn't workfor an actual reviewing magazine...nor does he write actual reviews. There is no overarching story,as there is no overarching story to your life Ben (or anyone's for that matter), or your review(s). If you want "Fantasy" to actually be whatever the fuck you think it is supposed to be go watch a horse humping a cat while on shrooms.

Your character targets any enemy he looks at? GET A FUCKING PC ALREADY! God damnit how can anyonein the world actually have anything to say about an RPG while playing it on a fucking console?!Either get a fucking pc or go play Final Fantasy Ben...I know you love FF, just admit it.

No, you can't get attacked on a warm and sunny day. I assume you got attacked a few times by mobs duringthe night and found it odd people actually do that which you immediately dismissed as unrealistic because you live in a neighborhood where even dogs and cats drink beer together at your local pub.

You want the camera to look where you're looking? Go play fucking Tomb Raider 1! Or GET A FUCKING PCand learn to use a fucking mouse!

You're a fucking hypocrite Ben! I remember you whining about your sidekick in Resident Evil 5 usingall the herbs the moment she gets hit and now when you actually have to set WHEN an ally is supposedto use health items and you whine? You cunt.

Your "reviews" were actually funny when you first started "doing them" when you made fun of the game itself and various details yet now you're just whining about everything BUT the game and you leave me wondering if you were actually wanking or playing.

Oh, and you're officially stupid now... "There is no overarching plot." I wonder how you didn't suffer a stroke when you said that.

Woah, man. I liked DA2 too but you're taking this review waaay too seriously. The fun of watching Zero Punctuation is to kick back, laugh and listen to good critique. If you listen Yahtzee makes some pretty good points.

So when something kills immersion for you (not walking to the door in Mass Effect) it's a sign of the end of times, but when it kills immersion for others (NPCs not addressing the PC by name) it's pointless.

Hah, right on the damn noze ZP! I am totally done buying EA games, fucking unoriginal money grubbing bastards. Make something that's actually worth paying for and I might reconsider, though I know this will never happen.

Assassin Xaero:Glad I didn't waste $60 on this. Funny, higher the PC games cost the worse they are. Bulletstorm was the only $60 PC game I've seen that was actually worth it.

You could rent the damn thing for a system.It's generally why System gaming is better deal. (Unless you steal online lol. which i don't).

I could, but considering how much I disliked the first, and how I've heard this was bad (and after trying the demo), I probably won't. I have rented a few games, but after playing PC mostly for so long, I usually forget that it is an option. That and I mostly play shooters and can't aim for shit with analog sticks, so don't play many shooters on my PS3. :P

As for it being a better deal, renting is a plus, but between Steam, D2D, and various other sales, PC games can be pretty damn cheap. I bought Medal of Honor (the new one) a few days ago for $6.

I've long gotten the feeling that with the exception of a few games here and there, Ben's lost the original focus of what he's doing. I do respect him immensely as being a rather salty counterpoint to the mountains of 'professional' game reviewers who praise even the worst games. However, I get the feeling now instead of trashing games for actually being of poor quality, he's trashing major titles because that's what people have come to expect and the problem is, especially when the game in question isn't really that bad, he has to really reach back in the closet to pull something out that ends up making little sense overall. Like with World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, I think this review is one of them, although he does raise some legitimate points.

I think Yahtzee dropped the ball here. While I agree with his conclusion I don't agree with his some of his criticism. What transformed the game from a good game or a game that could have been, into a bad game wasn't the dialogue that wasn't proofread during gameplay, the reused dungeons, or even the waves of enemies that makes that loading screen tip about putting your tank in a choke point into a trigger for nerd rage.

It was the fact that BioWare decided on this new story style and then failed completely to think about how it might change the game in ways outside of the reduction in the number of areas. The most obvious points would be that when your companions have jobs there should probably be at least some lip service to the fact that there would be scheduling difficulties, and that relationships between characters PC/NPCs/companions should be more web-like especially as time goes on (like ten/seven years). Instead everyone is just as detached from each other as they are in BioWare's "epic" games, where the PC does a lot of traveling for a story that at most happens over a couple of months.

odd function: The most obvious points would be that when your companions have jobs there should probably be at least some lip service to the fact that there would be scheduling difficulties, and that relationships between characters PC/NPCs/companions should be more web-like especially as time goes on.

I'm a bit curious why you think the character's aren't connected. It seems like every other scene I have at my party member's home/bar/mansion/clinic/etc has Varric in it. As well, dialogue does evolve over time with party members, you just need to have them with you to catch it.

SickBritKid:From what I've heard, the game feels quite rushed and unpolished but it's still a good game. Not just amazing like the previous one.

According to reports from Bioware, we can blame EA. Bioware's dev team had a good few months to go to finish the game, in both polish as well as story, and EA told them to rush it right out the door before the final tweaks could be made.

So while Bioware wanted to aim for the First category you outlined, Yahtzee, their publisher suck "Fuck that shit" to that goal and had them toss it into the second category.

DA:O was not amazing. It was Bioware's worst game unless you were playing NWN's offline.

Too bad even Yahtzee couldn't come up with anything to say negatively about DA:O other than the whole "talking while covered in blood" thing. Go suck on that.

odd function: The most obvious points would be that when your companions have jobs there should probably be at least some lip service to the fact that there would be scheduling difficulties, and that relationships between characters PC/NPCs/companions should be more web-like especially as time goes on.

I'm a bit curious why you think the character's aren't connected. It seems like every other scene I have at my party member's home/bar/mansion/clinic/etc has Varric in it. As well, dialogue does evolve over time with party members, you just need to have them with you to catch it.

Sure they have there "home" locations, but we don't see people without quests, befriend non-companions before quest offers, get a free drink for help on a quest. If I need outside (non-companion) I don't receive suggestions from people I've befriended aided/screwed (both senses) that might refer me to the same of different people. There should be somekind of networking mechanic, or maybe even a Champion's equivalent of the Baker Street Irregulars. It's the fact that nearly every quest is completely isolated from general city interaction and from every other quest unless it is to chain one quest to the end of the preceding one.

Think of BioWare's general plot/quest structure as a centipede. You have the body representing the main quest and constant travel with the legs representing side quests. DA2 made it into a spider with no travel and all quests radiate from that start and never intersect. The proper shape of the game's structure should be a web. The problem is, that the game makes it obvious that all city life begins and ends with you the player. Characters even companions don't really have a life without you to fix their problems and drag them along on adventures respectively. This is why the most obvious point of failure is Aveline. Captain of the guard should keep her pretty busy, but I take her everywhere. She has time for every quest no matter how inconsequential or unrelated to keeping the peace it might be. Sure the banter is great, but it doesn't help the fact that as a player I not only live in a city populated mostly with zombies, but the few human occupants don't talk to each other and once they talk to me twice, they're never heard from again.

I want to be able to imagine that the NPCs would still exist even if my character wasn't around to help save their kitten and that maybe they'd ask somebody else if that was the case.

Maybe the city is actually literally alive and consumes the souls of its population. ;)

But there were a lot of things I didn't like/found missing:-the multitude of sidequests rarely lent anything to the game itself-almost all the environments were recycled (though, to be fair, we were a bit spoiled by Origins)-the time skips never really felt necessary for either plot or character development-the ended was pretty... meh.

Now that that's out of the way I have a few questions for anyone interested in answering.

First question: How much does having a DA:O import affect them game? I know the difference in ME:2 was phenomenal but there doesn't seem to be quite as much happening in DA:II that's directly related to Origins.

Secondly question: Did anyone else think the time skips broke immersion? I personally thought the time skips were far more jaring than Varric's storytelling. In fact i'd say a lot of my favorite moments in the game were when we continued the whole Varric/seeker discussions.

Third question: Is there any real debate over whether this game or Origins was better? Saying that, DA:II is still a good game and was definately worth the time I put into it.

As far as I can tell it effects next to nothing. But I'm still in the third act of my first playthrough. Also DA:2 comes with 3 preset imports to choose from.

The first timeskip broke immersion in a big way since I as a player was new to the city while the character had supposedly been living there for a year a knew some people around town who were complete strangers to me. I consider that first timeskip the first sign that BioWare phoned it in on this one, and didn't give any thought to how their new story structure should force changes to the game structure, and how certain parts of the story needed to be rewritten so that the character's experience would more closely match the player's.

I don't think there is any debate among those who were fans of DA:O. On BioWare's forums there are some people who point to people who didn't like DA:O but did like DA2 as a reason to say that DA2 is a good game, but I wonder if they themselves are people who didn't like the first. I have only my opinion, but I think the only debate about DA:O vs DA2 is between exclusively ME fans and primarily DA:O fans.

My own opinion for this game is that it stinks. I initially thought it was good, if foreboding in it's implications for the franchise, especially if any changes were kept for the third game. The new wheel is a marginal improvement over the awfulness of the ME version and I hope it is used in ME3. However, during the second act I realized that apparently the PC was the only one capable of talking to other people, though I could grant that capability to others temporarily by including them in my party. Even then it never seemed to rise above small talk. In Kirkwall, nobody has a life unless it involves the Champion.

And honestly who wears the same outfit for enjoying a drink at a tavern as they would when traveling through the deep roads? Even the PC has the sense to change out of armor at home. Maybe everyone else is too poor, after all the PC didn't wear normal clothes around the house at all until he struck it rich in the deep roads.

i think it's time we once again change the intro music because I'm real bloody tired of being busy chuckling at w/e quip is made to close the video and then having my eardrums ripped to shreds because whoever mixed the sound over these videos is incompetent of dealing with the volume control.

I actually have to disagree on the story part. At the end the dots connect and you understand what has happened. The point of the games story is that you're awesome person of thedas #2 (#1 of course being the warden, but then again you don't know about your own steakesauceness yet)that has to do stuff to look out for your family and ther new home.When you go in the cave you find the idol and the idol causes Meredith to become more insane wthan she was when you started DA2.The only part of the story that is unimportant is the qunari part. The only meaning of it is to make you become the champion.In the end it is about the question, "are mages awesome or bad?". Though they make some other plot twist in the end...... So it has a story, but it seems like it is mostly to make you wonder about DA3.Still, it was an ok game even though it didn't reach up to DA1.

Riseian:i wonder how yahtzee here feels about mech games, it'd be interesting to watch him play armored core

Indeed. I love mech games, but I get the feeling that he's going to slam it, and a lot of mech games are pretty 'eeeeehhh...' at the best of times. We'll see what he says about Hawken when it finally comes out. He loves indie developers after all.

I was both impressed and annoyed to find this is the first critique of the game that sems to bother mentioning the incessant fucking mobs. I really enjoyed the game except for the whole "oh, you're not dead yet? Here's a bunch of even more mooks with bows to take out your mage!" thing :/

The problem with the story though, is that it's clearly an attempt to start off a longer franchise. Without the rest to back it up, it won't make any sense or have any scope.

SickBritKid:From what I've heard, the game feels quite rushed and unpolished but it's still a good game. Not just amazing like the previous one.

According to reports from Bioware, we can blame EA. Bioware's dev team had a good few months to go to finish the game, in both polish as well as story, and EA told them to rush it right out the door before the final tweaks could be made.

So while Bioware wanted to aim for the First category you outlined, Yahtzee, their publisher suck "Fuck that shit" to that goal and had them toss it into the second category.

DA:O was not amazing. It was Bioware's worst game unless you were playing NWN's offline.

Too bad even Yahtzee couldn't come up with anything to say negatively about DA:O other than the whole "talking while covered in blood" thing. Go suck on that.

He didnt even finish the game. I though the the first 15 hours of DA:O was some of Bioware's best work the next 15 hours was their worse by far.

I don't recall him saying such. But his review was very, very, very positive.

No it wasn't it was mostly negative and flat until the end when he said he wasn't finishing but he was enjoying it despite itself.

Watch the review again. The only real negative thing he said about the first game was how everyone talks while splattered in gore. That was about the ONLY point he made again it. The rest were more praising it's use of great dialogue, characterization, and all that.