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His method of repairing loose tuning pins by inserting corrugated cardboard, to be precise.

Now, I'm thinking.....what really is a valid reason as to why it wouldn't work? I understand that the cardboard will eventually disintegrate, but it will take many, many movements of the pin before that would happen. In other words, years of tunings.

Second....let's say it does disintegrate. It's still leaving the fiber in the hole between it and the pin.

I know it seems like an unorthodox repair that a lot of us just summarily dismissed, but when really thinking about it, I'm not sure I can come up with a real reason why it wouldn't work.

Many repairs we take for granted today were unorthodox at one time (CA glue in piano repair, for instance).

Personally I wasn't questioning whether it works but why not just use CA glue or like Jerry said just put in an oversized pin. I guess if neither of those is an option (I don't have any oversized pins or CA glue) then it seems like an okay option. It certainly won't hurt anything will it?

Max (and many others) may not have ready access to various size tuning pins along with many other parts. So if using this method helps the piano stay in tune longer without a lot of expense, then I say great.

Not everyone has the advantage we do in the U.S. on being able to get parts.

Shoot, one time I tried those split metal shims to tighten tuning pins. Got a lot left too cause I didn't like the way they worked.

Nope! as soon there are 2or 3carboard shims, the pano will desintegrates.

Originally Posted By: That Guy

Personally I wasn't questioning whether it works but why not just use CA glue or like Jerry said just put in an oversized pin. I guess if neither of those is an option (I don't have any oversized pins or CA glue) then it seems like an okay option. It certainly won't hurt anything will it?

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Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Nope! as soon there are 2or 3carboard shims, the pano will desintegrates.

Originally Posted By: That Guy

Personally I wasn't questioning whether it works but why not just use CA glue or like Jerry said just put in an oversized pin. I guess if neither of those is an option (I don't have any oversized pins or CA glue) then it seems like an okay option. It certainly won't hurt anything will it?

Not necessarily. If a few pins need tightened and this method works, how is that different from any other method that works?

>>I'm just asking for a good reason NOT to use that method. I really can't think of one. Can anyone else?<<

Yes, I can think of several. A real strong reason is that the cardboard is less effective and durable than a variety of other materials that we tried. An old traditional way is to plane a shaving of hardwood from a plank and insert that into the hole. Another is to use sandpaper, grit side away from the pin. A piece of brass, half the circumference of the hole was also superior to fiberboard or cardboard. The value of the repair was determined after numerous pin movements. Everything was tight at first, but some of the materials loosened more quickly than others. The cardboard was the loosest of the bunch. Regards,

>>I'm just asking for a good reason NOT to use that method. I really can't think of one. Can anyone else?<<

Yes, I can think of several. A real strong reason is that the cardboard is less effective and durable than a variety of other materials that we tried. An old traditional way is to plane a shaving of hardwood from a plank and insert that into the hole. Another is to use sandpaper, grit side away from the pin. A piece of brass, half the circumference of the hole was also superior to fiberboard or cardboard. The value of the repair was determined after numerous pin movements. Everything was tight at first, but some of the materials loosened more quickly than others. The cardboard was the loosest of the bunch. Regards,

but once instructed our Russian friend stick and praise to his superior method! Shaves or hard wood are so difficult to find! so, to me, the heck with it until better. .

One need to know how to set the pins before ascertain that a process is efficient or no.

Which side of the hole the brass sheet ? I would put it on the opposite side of the "bed" of the pin, but I dont know. The advantage is that it is not to be replaced when changing a string, hence its use on historical instruments and harpsichords.

Edited by Kamin (05/27/1205:58 AM)

_________________________
Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Cardboard is A way to do a temporary quick fix, as is sandpaper, super glue (so it appears ) and veneer, but I find doing things like this take a darn site longer than just replacing with a over size wrestpin. If the plank has split however, nothing will work.

_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdomand Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

The whole point of using a narrow shim of hardwood veneer rather than one covering the complete circumference of the pin was to place it on one side of the pin, not front or back, in case the block was split or about to split, there would be no added pressure from a shim that would force the split further apart. I have known repairs like this last for years. Walnut was prefered because it was possible to cut thinner veneers out of it.

This was regarded as the safest repair in the days of solid pinblocks. Laminated pinblocks changed all this but always consider the age of the piano and the likelihood of it having a solid block in choosing a repair method.

When friction between pin and wood hole is no longer enough to provide the necessary tension of the strings on the classical technology seeks to restore pin's wood hole or hammers pin of larger diameter (oversize), or a conclusion about the impossibility of restoring the pianoThus, the pin can be, with some approximation, of course, be regarded as a classic bolt. And that can happen with a threaded connection, if the bolt is screwed into the nut, which has much lower strength material? It's had bad connection and poor friction .I don't beats new pins (larger diameter).I am force the turning (old) pin into the seat (wood hole) while gradually screwing it in.The most productive and durable (oddly enough) was use corrugated cardboard, which provides the required quality and the restoration takes place fairly quickly, with virtually no material costs without the risk of "disorder" of neighboring pins, which inevitably arises in the classic to hammering on pin. Depending on the compound, this material allows for multiple settings for a long time operation of the piano.

Respected masters technicians of my compliments, thank you discussing this issue. A special thank you to the topic mentioned my name. I would like this discuss has been constructive. I have repeatedly said that this is my way. I assure you that the Russian people wrote words of gratitude for my method. I am very embarrassed, but I have a sense of ownership with the owners of the piano in Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Slovakia, Russia and others, who own their own pianos repaired independently. They twist themselves the T-bars. I agree with the forum participants that the procedure does not always save any piano, but we would try to make this.What's new maxim_tuner's advice?1 Do not remove a string from with pin, when we twist off it2 Do not hammer pin3 The effectiveness of this method is that the additional friction itself does not work. We destroyed shim a screwed pin into pinblock . A shim destroyed in the process of this screwing the particles of cellulose and warmed the glue. A cellulose's particles is filled of a crack in the pinblock.4 I am against use any glue5 I am against any metal shims inserts6 My YourTube Channel for simple laymen who sees, think and decide.To be or not to be?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGk3dS6dKow

I use wrest plank plugs when there is a cracked pinblock. It is fairly good method. I do not belive that max idea is good enough...Metal bushing can also help, cardboard, do not think it is the good way...

So if using this method helps the piano stay in tune longer without a lot of expense, then I say great.

Of course it would be immodest on my part, but I must in topic publicate this . I'm repeat not trying to be a prophet, imposes its own ideas. I do it just to draw attention to the general problem of poor fixation pins off. It is a pity that most people wrote Russian about this problem , but there are in English too

Perhaps a video showing us how to do it the "right" way would be of interest to all those doing it "wrong"?I tune my piano myself, and have many people say I am doing it "wrong" yet, it serves me quite well. I have not mastered the art of setting all the pins yet, some hold better than others. My piano isn't a very good one as in, it's not expensive, though I do enjoy the technical aspect of the instrument just as much as playing it.I found this video very inspirational (inspirational.)DumpYourTelevision в ответ на buttercupaz1 (Показать комментарий) 6 мес. Назад

His method of repairing loose tuning pins by inserting corrugated cardboard, to be precise.

Now, I'm thinking.....what really is a valid reason as to why it wouldn't work? I understand that the cardboard will eventually disintegrate, but it will take many, many movements of the pin before that would happen. In other words, years of tunings.

Second....let's say it does disintegrate. It's still leaving the fiber in the hole between it and the pin.

I know it seems like an unorthodox repair that a lot of us just summarily dismissed, but when really thinking about it, I'm not sure I can come up with a real reason why it wouldn't work.

Many repairs we take for granted today were unorthodox at one time (CA glue in piano repair, for instance).

So.....?

The of the method is exceptions to classic rule. You are right,Loren D that the cardboard is already in the process of screwing partially destroyed. When a pin screwed into place, it is not a strip thickness of 3mm. Are where disintegrate fragments of cellulose? It's disintegrate the strip basis of cardboard off and filled the cracks of bush-pinblock. Usually a pin hammered, I screwed it. How it do:1 A shim is not displaced in the process of screwing.2 A pin acts as an iron (утюг) and dryer together. The fact is, there is something similar like the glue and pasting on a circle of cellulose on bush and pinblock's hole a new wood's layer . And at the same time polished it's. In fact, we just been repaired the pindlock's hole. End result is a relatively "new hole", a little reduced in diameter.3 "The new friction" provide two materials - "eaten strip of cardboard" and disintegrated pulp4 A follow the tuning after a year, for example, does not affect the technical characteristics of the "cured pin." There is one "but". After the initial installation shim it very tightly regulate tuning hammer.5 The "old pin" is not suffering, is not subject to any deformation and remains in the same technical characteristics as it was originally.6 Any other shim is expensive, in contrast to the corrugated cardboard7 Any man watching my film can do it. One woman from Ukraine forced to watch a movie of her husband. He looked it and how she writes, " and he made pins!"I have a big request to the masters- technicians of is not to condemn my method, if themself do not made this experiment. Sincerely,maxim_tuner

Max are you avare of the tension tuning pins have to hold? Do you realy think a cardboard can be a valid fix for a loose pin? I understand your lack of resources, I come from a country that was a communist one and can understand the conditions in which you work. But, maybe you should slow down a little bit and listen to the advices of a more experienced and trained techs. I do so even today although I have more than 10 years of experience...

Max are you avare of the tension tuning pins have to hold? Do you realy think a cardboard can be a valid fix for a loose pin? I do so even today although I have more than 10 years of experience...

Dear MariottoYou have understood that I am very limited in resources and use what I have in my practice. I am always looking for professional advice on our forum. However, the "cardboard and pin" is topic, which I successfully made in my district many years in past and I does it now . I tested a lot of other stuff and materials. The truth is that shim works. I hope that you will soon discover it for themselves. It is waiting for your experiment with cardboard. But communistic past is my past. Then I very good lived and I sincerely believed in humanistic ideal of the communism Can You do short clip about this procedure?

The idea is to understand what the pin have to do in the hole, then the resources to correct a too loose pin are limited (thicker one pin, new wood, brass foil)

The elasticity of the cellulose may tighten the hole but it may not allow to lock the pin for long. Old blocks anyway are loosing their resiliency in the zone around the pin, the resiliency "migrates deeper in the block and the area around the pin is not resilient.That, plus the wear is what makes even thicker pins not so efficient at some point, or not for long. Then indeed an experienced tuner will be able to tighten a tuning pin even in an old ovalised block (I suggest that the pin when torqued, deforms, at some point, and then it will take an adapted shape that allow to some better grip)

The point is to know how to manipulate the tuning lever when the pin holding is basically poor, and obtain a bit of pin torque despite that. It can be surprizing .

Edited by Kamin (05/29/1203:43 AM)

_________________________
Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

The idea is to understand what the pin have to do in the hole, then the resources to correct a too loose pin are limited (thicker one pin, new wood, brass foil)

The elasticity of the cellulose may tighten the hole but it may not allow to lock the pin for long. Old blocks anyway are loosing their resiliency in the zone around the pin, the resiliency "migrates deeper in the block and the area around the pin is not resilient.That, plus the wear is what makes even thicker pins not so efficient at some point, or not for long. Then indeed an experienced tuner will be able to tighten a tuning pin even in an old ovalised block (I suggest that the pin when torqued, deforms, at some point, and then it will take an adapted shape that allow to some better grip)

The point is to know how to manipulate the tuning lever when the pin holding is basically poor, and obtain a bit of pin torque despite that. It can be surprizing .