Tennessee Doctor In Self-Quarantine On Return From Liberia Ebola Hotspot

A Tennessee doctor, working at the same Liberian clinic as Dr. Kent Brantly - the Ebola-infected American who was flown to Atlanta yesterday for treatment - has placed himself in quarantine as a "precaution for [his] family." As ABC reports, Alan Jamison, a retired pediatrician, returned home to Morristown, Tenn., after he was evacuated from Liberia by the aid group he was volunteering for, says he's "feeling well" and showing no sign of symptoms; and claims since landing in the US, he said he's had no physical contact with anyone. As Mark St.Cyr notes, the Ebola virus which has been separated from the U.S. populace by the fortune of geological positioning has not only arrived on our doorstep, but was flown in deliberately on its own personal G5. Many are asking questions of; why? But perhaps the more crucial question is 'what if?' The what if question was this: "What if they need to bring them back because they had no choice? What if the reason they need to get them into better facilities is for the worst of all reasons? i.e., It’s already here."

A Tennessee doctor who placed himself in quarantine after volunteering in West Africa, where the Ebola virus is rampant, says he's "feeling well" and showing no sign of symptoms.

Alan Jamison, a retired pediatrician, returned home to Morristown, Tenn., after he was evacuated from Liberia by the aid group he was volunteering for -- working at the same hospital as Dr. Kent Brantly, an American now fighting the deadly virus.

"I feel very comfortable and I'm looking forward to being able to be with my family again," Jamison told ABC News via Skype.

Since landing in the U.S., he said he's had no physical contact with anyone and has only been near his daughter, who picked him up from the airport. Jamison said he plans to hole up at home until the 21-day incubation period is completed.

"I'm out of the major risk period right [now]," he said. "The isolation that I'm going through right now is in excess of what the CDC suggested for the precaution for my family."

...

Jamison isn't sure how Brantly, who is in isolation and expected to arrive in the U.S. next week, became infected with Ebola.

"He was very cognizant and careful with the hygiene precautions that he used," Jamison said. "I'm not sure how it occurred that he was exposed."

Often times we get caught up in the asking of why rather than asking what if. It sounds like such a subtle distinction and for some it’s an exercise not worth pursuing. However, it is sometimes this very innocuous line of questioning that is the only thing that gets at the root of many issues facing not only business in general, but sometimes rooting out the answers one doesn’t want to actually face – never mind deal with.

Personally I made many of my marks in business by being the person who more often than not had to pick up the pieces or control their trajectory as to where they may land ahead of time during my tenure in the business world. Today the professional moniker is “an expert in Crisis Management.”

Expert is not for vanity’s sake. If I had done it once that could be racked up to chance, twice could be coincidence, but three times and more and you’ve distinguished yourself with a track record.

Although I have always been somewhat of a contrarian, it was when a friend of mine years earlier asked me a rhetorical question during a crisis taking place where we lived that shaped much of my reasoning and understandings for years to come.

Earlier that day the city where we grew up experienced a power outage causing a city-wide black out that was still not resolved as we were talking later that afternoon.

The outage occurred during the mid morning. It wasn’t as if the streets or neighborhoods were cloaked in darkness. Yet, in less than 30 to 45 minutes after the outage started looters began smashing windows downtown and stealing everything that wasn’t nailed down.

It didn’t start with just one, it was a mob from all accounts that started the spree.

As we were discussing the reasons for “why” and more he made a statement that sticks with me to this day: “You keep asking why would they do this so quickly. The question you need to answer is, what if this is what they were waiting for?” That subtle change in questioning changes everything both in how you address the “why” and more.

Again it changes the thought process in how one looks as to deal with situations in their heads while opening up lines of questioning that help one zero in and fix a true underlying issue; rather than addressing or wasting time arguing moot points. i.e., If you only think about why someone is looting in general terms you rationalize the intent (boredom, mob behavior, frustration, etc.) far different from what if the intent was as soon as opportunity showed itself – that was what was to be done.

His reasoning was it happened far too quick. He said, “People just don’t lose the power and begin smashing windows 30 minutes later unless that’s exactly what you were waiting for.

Whether he was right or wrong didn’t matter. His line of thinking in objective analysis was spot on and I never forgot it. Plus it has served me well these decades later throughout my professional life.

So what does all this have to do about the issues today?

Well, it has a lot to do with what has just transpired in Atlanta in the willful experiment in both transporting as well as containing one of the world’s worst known viruses to the United States.

I use the words “experiment” as well as “willful” deliberately for this has never been done here before.

As of right now the Ebola virus which has been separated from the U.S. populace by the fortune of geological positioning has not only arrived on our doorstep, but was flown in deliberately on its own personal G5. Many are asking questions of; why?

I was speaking with a friend where I pondered a “what if” rhetorical rebuttal to their questioning of “why” and they nearly froze. As I said before: Changing why to what if many times opens up far more doors than one first believed even available.

The what if question was this: “What if they need to bring them back because they had no choice? What if the reason they need to get them into better facilities is for the worst of all reasons? i.e., It’s already here.”

Of course this is absolutely nothing more than a thought experiment. I’m not trying to be an alarmist banging pots and pans out in the streets with a sign around my neck claiming “The End Is Near!” Nor, do I have, know, or pretend to know what we should or should not be doing. I’m just asking a question because the answers are far too important and meaningful to not only business, but for much, much, more.

Here’s why one really needs to think (and that means clearly and rationally) for there are just too many other things happening that no one wants to even consider, let alone ponder “what ifs.”

Here’s what we know as of today. Not speculation, not hyperbole, not innuendo, but fact.

First: We know as of today we have an out of control southern border crisis where tens of thousands of both children and more are crossing in droves. Many have confirmed cases of infections diseases such as tuberculosis and others that have been all but eradicated in the U.S. currently.

What we also know is: we don’t know who or all the identities of those that crossed are. We know the bulk, but what about god forbid just one terrorist mixed within carrying the deadly Ebola virus. What if that were to be true?

Second: We know that there were infected people with this deadly virus detained and isolated after being seen visually suffering from the virus at: an airport. Albeit in the country of origin, but as I said earlier the question to ask is “what if” one made it past?

Third: This could have far more impact to western civilization and its society than any conventional means of warfare could ever have. And the people wanting to inflict harm are more than willing to use any and all means to bring about that end. No matter how hard one tries to equate or affix the immorality as to why one wouldn’t or shouldn’t.

I’ve talked, debated, and down right argued with people many times over the years where they begin to get up in arms as to defend positions through the “why” frame of reference. Well, “why would people to do this?” or “Why would one do that when …..?” (you can fill in the blank.)

What has over turned their soap box over whether it be about business, or just plain discussions on life more often than not is when I posit the “what if.” e.g., What if it doesn’t work? What if that doesn’t happen? What if there’s another reason? What if what you think to be true is in actuality wrong? This is when and where the questioning, reasoning, breakthroughs and more have happened. I believe you get what I’m trying to convey.

Don’t take any of this as a slam of the poor victims we just brought back. I have great compassion as well as admiration for these doctors and others that have the courage of their convictions to walk head first into a truly horrific condition as to try not only heal, but to help foster ways as to prevent.

These people are doing work where statutes should be erected at every public square in their honor. I understand and can easily rationalize all of the “whys” these people would embark on such truly humanitarian work.

What I currently fear is that once again I’m near alone where no one seems to even be thinking, let alone contemplating the obvious…

What If?

Finally, if you were wondering just how Ebola outbreaks spread so quickly, SCMP has created the ultimate history of how one of the deadliest viruses on earth, with a 90% mortality rate, is spreading faster than efforts to control it.

It's just great that they bring these guys a hemisphere away because we all know that viruses never mutate and change their method of tranmission. I mean who has ever heard of a hard to tranmit virus suddenly learning to jump via airborne tranmission and becoming a pandemic?

Absolutely crazy talk! Do we honestly think for a millisecond that those in charge ie our beloved government would use something like this to cause panic and to cover up something greater and blame everything on this virus? When has our beloved government ever done such a thing??? Y'all need to stop and start reading the Huffington Post!

Did the other 200 some odd people that flew on the same plane as him with recirculated air, and the same stewardesses handling his and their drinks SELF-Quarantine also??????????????????

Listen you little Turd MDs, there is no cure for this thing so you just going to that country to watch the dude die on you and cough and spit all over you isn't helping contain the disease when your lilly white ass comes a runing back to the USA. You little Biatches.

A person who has been infected with Ebola does not become a threat to others until...

AFTER HE BECOMES SYMPTOMATIC.

Before that he is safe to be around.

He just does not know that he is a WALKING TIME BOMB.

He is not infectious until the symptoms appear.

He may be infected but is NOT INFECTIOUS.

Thus everybody on that particular airplane WAS NOT AT RISK.

It would help you considerably to KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THAT YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT...BEFORE WRITING.

READING HELPS.

Now I WILL AGREE that is is the epitome of STUPIDITY to fly infectious and proven cases into the USA. In fact I am also INCLINED TO AGREE that if there is a HIGH CHANCE OF EXPOSURE that one should not be allowed to fly into the USA.

But your EVIDENCE, since it is FALSE, does not tend to SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.

But false premises sometimes will allow a true conclusion...ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HAVE LITTLE TO DO WITH THE PROPOSITION CONSIDERED.

As a scientist I am more interested in OBSERVATIONAL DATA rather than that of SPECULATION. That is called EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

You can speculate all that you want. Miffed knows the Empirical evidence.

She wrote in her response to you, "But I am just musing at this point. We just don't have enough hard facts on this virus."

That means speculation.

You might want to ask her what percentage of mutations are destructive to this "organism" (It is actually more crystalline rather than a Life Form) She will tell you that 99% of mutations are destructive to the organism.

As a scientist Miffed is bound by the very same rules.

You read this and then get back with me...Note the statement which I bolded.

Note the phrase...LATE STAGES.

I do know this one hell of a lot better than you think.

MODE OF TRANSMISSION: In an outbreak, it is hypothesized that the first patient becomes infected as a result of contact with an infected animal (15). Person-to-person transmission occurs via close personal contact with an infected individual or their body fluids during the late stages of infection or after death (1, 2, 15, 27). Nosocomial infections can occur through contact with infected body fluids due to the reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids (1, 2). Humans may be infected by handling sick or dead non-human primates and are also at risk when handling the bodies of deceased humans in preparation for funerals, suggesting possible transmission through aerosol droplets (2, 6, 28). In the laboratory, infection through small-particle aerosols has been demonstrated in primates, and airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated (1, 6, 13). The importance of this route of transmission is not clear. Poor hygienic conditions can aid the spread of the virus (6).

The time for speculation on incubation periods and public exposure is over... A woman dropped dead today exiting a flight in the UK from Sierra Leone after demonstrating symptoms on the flight... It's out...

and it is even worse, she died at the hospital Saturday and so was 'cared' by many (but with quarantine or isolation ??) on the way from the late Friday (early Saturday?) flight until Saturday morning.

How many doctors, hospital workers, plane passengers, workers, etc....were exposed ? There was also a stopoff in Africa on the way.

The Mirror is hardly what you'd call a credible news source. It's one of the UK's famous "red-top" tabloids, which compete for readers by seeing who can run the most lurid and alarming headline, followed by rampant speculation about worst-case outcomes.

And...She tested NEGATIVE. She did NOT HAVE THE DISEASE. The article you referenced STATED THAT FACT.

But maybe this is the reason for the scare...

(Reuters) - The U.S. government will begin testing on people an experimental Ebola vaccine as early as September, after seeing positive results from tests on primates, according to media reports on Thursday.

The National Institutes of Health's infectious disease unit is working with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to put the vaccine into trial as quickly as possible, according to CNN and USA Today. The director of that unit could not be reached for comment.

Qui bono? What Pharmaceutical Corporation is pushing this scare?

Is there is a possibility that this type of sensationalistic journalism is published, maybe, in order to frighten you? I am not writing that it is.

But it fits in with the Problem/Reaction/Solution paradigm of the Hegelian Dialectic.

Find out about Liposomal Vitamin C and making it yourself. You make it with a jewelry cleaner, Lecithan, Water and Absorbic acid. The finished drink allows for absorption through the cells, not the stomach so massive amounts of Vitamin C can be taken. See it on U Tuube. I can say first hand the effectiveness of this procedure.

So with what level of certainty and confidence are you willing to gamble with the public's health, based upon observation that so far we are unaware of asymptomatic transmission? please give me a number, in terms of the odds that this observation is wrong because of a sampling error. Considering this please, enumerate the sampling risk, is it: 1:100 1:1,000? 1:10,000? .... 1:10,000,000 ....? Since you are clearly more knowledgable about subject, this should be easy to answer and verify.

Since you cannot give me a number, you cannot define whether or not this is an irrational fear, because it is an admission that you DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER and neither do I. This means there IS A RISK and it also means you don't really have a mathematical grasp of what risk you define as irrational.

His thesis has already failed. The personnel hack who got the disease was not, presumably, going out dancing every night with guys bleeding from every orifice. She was working at what everyone, including herself, considered a safe distance from the action, but she caught the virus.

She most likely got it from Patients who were symptomatic, in late stages, through AIRBORNE Transmission. She did not get it from the Doctors.

(What is a "Safe Distance" anyway? !00 Meters?...One Kilometer?...Now personally I liked the fact that an Ocean separated us from it...but we do have a criminal government in power. I DO NOT SUPPORT THAT HE WAS ALLOWED ENTRY INTO THE USA. But I want to read RATIONALITY over that of unfounded HYSTERIA.)

They are more like crystals rather than living organisms. They can only become active when they enter a living cell. There they interact with cellular DNA to become factories to replicate copies of themselves. (Prions are worse.)

A virus does not limit itself. It cannot think or act volitionally. The method of transmission is the method of transmission. It is an observable phenomena.

Scientists, competent scientists like Miffed, observe and report what they have observed. They do not edit data for expedience. They do not create reports for Political Reasons...COMPETENT IS THE KEY WORD in that context.

Political spokespeople, on the otherhand, do promote a Political Agenda. Unfortunately there are many incompetent Scientists involved with the Government. We have trolls like FlakFRAU on this blog doing just that, promoting Agendas.

I am also quite skeptical of bureaucratic conjecture. Thus I will research and look at articles in respected Scientific Journals over that of believeing what I am told by the Main Stream Media. I will take the time and do this. I am not reassured by bureaucratic conjecture either.

But I will not deny the Empirical Evidence when it is presented by Scientific Journals.

I am sure that the Nature article which produced one data set which demonstrated an unknown method of transmission was a shock. This experiment was done with the Zaire strain.

But hysteria is fear based speculation on that which is unknown. I prefer to gather empirical evidence before rushing to judgment.

But the statistical evidence is already present in meaningful form. Scientists have not been sitting on their ass and doing nothing between outbreaks. The Journals are loaded with experimental data.

In no way am I repeating the CDC nonsense. I am just as aghast at the allowance of high risk individuals entry into the USA as you are..if not more. But when I read nonsense about asymptomatic candidates infecting a population on an airplane that just went to far out on the hysteria meter.

It is when people to not question and allow their fear over what may happen rather than to look at what is happening is when I will have a problem.

It is okay to question. Hell. That is how you learn. That is what I do. But this disease has been around for the past 38 years and has been studied in a far greater depth than you may realize. It is not "new" It may be new to you. But it is being studied continuously.

Demonstrate one post in this thread, that you made, where you asked me a question. Can you?

In 2009, Reston-EBOV was the first EBOV detected in swine with indicated transmission to humans. In-contact transmission of Zaire-EBOV (ZEBOV) between pigs was demonstrated experimentally. Here we show ZEBOV transmission from pigs to cynomolgus macaques without direct contact.

There IS a reason that THIS strain has infected so many care givers. Do you know why that is? Can you say, for sure, that the 100+ infected care givers were not properly following prior protocol established as being safe?

Perhaps you need to look at the EVIDENCE rather than speculate. In that way your bitemporal hemianopia will be relieved so that you can see your 3-D World.

Transmission to other hosts happens in the late stages. But it is probably ALSO airborne at this point.

The protocols over there are faulty. They will prove out just as faulty in Atlanta if they refuse to look at the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

Just ss many whom post here refuse to look at Empirical Evidence I am just as certain that there will be a percentage of Doctors in Atlanta whom will refuse to look at the Empirical Evidence.

The Asymptomatic Doctor from Tennessee should not have been allowed entry.

The already symptomatic Doctors probably infected everyone on that airplane that transferred them over to Atlanta. They should not have been allowed entry. (Personally I think that they would be agahst at that as they are so out of it from fever that they have no clue that they have been transferred.)

Thoughtful piece, but enough of this BS about "they", the CDC, health care professionals...

This was Barry's call and his alone. If there is even one death as a result, his sorry ass should be arrested on murder charges. There has been plenty of stupidity, negligence, and foreign meddling in the past, but nothing close to this for sheer reckless endangerment of the entire population.

Better men are rotting in prison for far less. Tick tock Mr. President. Enjoy the last of your perks while you have them.

I understand the idea that depopulation is on the agenda of the elites, however, I think that Gates was misinterpreted when he advocated vaccines to counteract overpopulation. He was pointing out that many African families have many children because so many of them die in childhood from communicable diseases and they rely on their children to grow up and assist with work and take care of the elderly. When children die young, they tend to have more of them to better the odds that some will survive these diseases. Gates was saying that vaccines would eliminate the diseases that kill children therefore negating the need for families to have so many children. I am not an advocate of vaccines or Gates but I keep seeing this pop up that he has a plan to vaccinate with an intent to kill. Correct if I'm wrong and please direct me to the evidence of this because the talk I saw with Gates was about saving more children from an early death to bring the childbirth rate down.

It was an honest question. If you watch the Ted talk, you'll know what I mean. My interest here is to keep the disinformation out of any dialogue about the NWO and agenda 21. The facts have to be rock solid or it makes any of us opposed to the NWO look bad when it appears that we take things out of context. Based on his Ted talk, Gates was advocating vaccine to prevent childhood mortality with the goal in mind of bringing down the birthrate. If there is more to it, I would sincerely appreciate someone pointing me to the source. Thank you.

Just want to get some facts out there for all those feat mongers. Ebola has been here for years in bats and monkey's getting studied extensivly, so the virus wasn't first brought here by Dr Brantly.

He was also not shacked up in some motel or hospital that doesn't know how to deal with this stuff.

Here's the truth about the facility he is at now.

Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol, who will arrive in several days, will be treated in Emory's isolation unit for infectious diseases, created 12 years ago to handle doctors who get sick at the CDC, just up the hill. It is one of about four in the country, equipped with everything necessary to test and treat people exposed to very dangerous viruses.

In 2005, it handled patients with SARS, which unlike Ebola can spread when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

I've been surprised at how irrational people have been about this outbreak and the transport of Americans back home. Scary no doubt, and could something go horribly wrong, of course, but barring it being people there is nothing new here. They have dealt with Ebola in forms just as dangerous and "risky" for decades.

I respect that you gained the PATHOGEN SAFETY DATA SHEET. At least its some real research that hasn't been the norm on ZH so far concerning Ebola. I take it you were indicating that the info I gave on transmission compared to SARS was incorrect, but it does appear reading the modes of transmission for both that though airborn transmission is theoretically possible with Ebola it is much less likely then with SARS. Kudos again for introducing some real research.

Ebola

MODE OF TRANSMISSION: In an outbreak, it is hypothesized that the first patient becomes infected as a result of contact with an infected animal (15). Person-to-person transmission occurs via close personal contact with an infected individual or their body fluids during the late stages of infection or after death (1, 2, 15, 27). Nosocomial infections can occur through contact with infected body fluids due to the reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids (1, 2). Humans may be infected by handling sick or dead non-human primates and are also at risk when handling the bodies of deceased humans in preparation for funerals, suggesting possible transmission through aerosol droplets (2, 6, 28). In the laboratory, infection through small-particle aerosols has been demonstrated in primates, and airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated (1, 6, 13). The importance of this route of transmission is not clear. Poor hygienic conditions can aid the spread of the virus (6).

but it does appear reading the modes of transmission for both that though airborn transmission is theoretically possible with Ebola it is much less likely then with SARS. Kudos again for introducing some real research

Concerning the LETHALITY of this disease and the FACT that there is...NO VACCINE...

Your MINIMIZATION of the "theoretical" AIRBORNE VECTOR is an UNSAFE PROTOCOL.

(IF IT HAS BEEN OBSERVED IN CLINICAL SETTINGS THEN IT IS NOT THEORY, BUT IT IS OBSERVATION. That is DATA which cannot be ignored for sake of expedience.)

I will want to err on the side of PRUDENCE and minimize risk of any accidental exposure whatsoever. Peronally I do not care if the liklihood of airborne transmission is less than that of SARS. I want to minimize that risk to ZERO, an IMPOSSIBILITY.

But as I recall...nobody asked what I wanted. In fact this was not even brought before my US Representative. There was just a bogus claim to "A Right to Reentry" by the CDC, where NONE, by law, exists.

It was a unilateral and criminal act.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are more apt to take impulsive risks...with other people's well being...and have not a care afterwards.

That is what is running the US Government and the CDC. Are you one of them?

Tall Tom, Come on I understand your fear, but the government (Even a much more limited republican form I would prefer) does not have to ask Tall Tom for permission to bring this doctor home for treatment.We do not and should not have an election do to everything.

I understand that this disease is scary and you want the risk to be zero.But your risk may be going down since they bring a human patient home for study and treatment at the most advanced infectious disease center in the world.My point is they have been bringing monkeys and bats that are just as contagious as Dr. Brantly to the US for years for study and there have been no outbreaks.The risks are the same but because this story is in the news fear is catching up with people and clouding their judgment.

Again you do not have Veto rights on if they bring him home and should not.To call it a unilateral and criminal act is just silly.It certainly wasn’t a crime and how do you know it was Unilateral, I’m sure it was decided by the Board at the CDC and probably approved by everyone from the Surgeon General to the President himself.

I am no fan of our current government but I don’t think anything reckless or impulsive was done.ZHers usually seem to take all the facts in and don’t fly off the handle but for some reason this is causing people to go crazy, but no I am not one of them.This is not to belittle any fears but I don’t see any risks being take that haven’t been done for years.

Never thought I would get so many thumbs down on ZH but let them continue, and all of the posts saying how stupid I am.

Lol Ellis Island. I never said there was a right to return, but just because you don't have a right to something doesn't mean you still can't get it. I don't have a right to have nuclear missiles protecting me but I do. I don't have a right to a boat but I have one. I wasn't saying the govt doesn't have the right to refuse him I said that they weren't bound to not accept him.

Not to mention you use Ellis Island as "proof" shows your shotty logic. They were not citizens.

And no I'm not going to dig through the US laws to prove something that you are claiming. You are the one claiming that there is a law on the books that indicates that the United States has the responsibility to refuse the re-entry of a sick american citizen. YOU ARE TOUTING THAT THAT IS THE LAW, YOU FIND IT AND SHOW IT TO ME. I'M PRETTY MUCH SURE IT DOESN'T EXIST.

Not to mention I never said you had a fear of death, I just stated you were fearful, whether of death or getting there doesn’t matter.I do think fear is understandable, but not to the point to cloud logic.

Answer me this question, why is bringing a doctor who is infected and has the same capability of infecting others as monkeys that have been brought here carrying the disease any different?That it what I don’t understand.Monkeys can transmit to humans just as easily as humans to humans from what I have read.They have been doing that for nearly 4 decades with no incident.Is it just your ignorance of that going on that makes you not want to bring him back or would you have been as up in arms about the animals being brought here for study.If so then I can at least reconcile what appears to be hypocritical or at least ignorant.

"And in no instance whatsoever is there any legislation that provides for a Right to Entry."

And since when have we needed laws telling us what we can do. Levislation must be put in place to tell us what we can't and if it doesn't it is allowed.

sorry no law will prevent madness ergo we have bwh1214 here to remind us all of that fact..although bwh enjoys sex with monkey partners that is beyond the point that we post on here..a limited capacity at grasping risk vs reward, science vs policy and a love for .gov that points to where it's bread is buttered..bwh's ilk inhabit much of .gov and academia. probly a life long socialist or communist as his loyalty to .gov actions is plain in bwh's past postings, best to ignore this lower life form.

head of CDC dr fuckup, no that's not his name, but if you see a video of this guy on fox sunday , jerry lewis comes to mind..but jerry was just acting:

well today this obuma appointee said" we cannot let fear overrule compassion" well doc your job is to prevent infections- what is in your power to do, is to not allow pathogens into this country -unless there is no other avenue..losing lives in africa but not in usa is what your job is all about, there is no reason to bring patients here..blood and tissue samples perhaps ..living vectors not needed. Agenda vs science and good medicine.

Ok I'm not a communist, I am a libertarian. I do not work for the Govt and believe in small govt.

I have had seen a few posts that say that the risk to reward is way outside the "curve". So I wanted to explore my thought process on that. I'm sure you all are worried of a major epidemic. First over the past 40 years they have had thousands of primates infected with Ebola in the country for study. So we have two additional primates, and we'll say they've had 2000 here over the past 40 years but there are probably more then that, and no out breaks. That’s a maximum risk of 1 transmission to a single person studying an Ebola specimen in the US out of 1000. Now what are the chances that there are multiple transmissions beyond the patients 1 in 10. So now we're at 1 in 10,000. A larger outbreak effecting not just healthcare workers and scientists but also civilians as we have seen in Africa several times, another 1 in 100. Finally what are the chances that the emergency healthcare system can not handle what he Africans have been able to handle a dozen times in the past without more then 1000 killed. The African issues with Ebola mainly surround poor hygine, well assume that this is the first outbreak that goes over 1000 cases. That is 1 out of 29, which with the american healthcare system and more importantly communication system would be cut more then likely to 1 in 150.

That's 1 in 150,000,000. Against the known pro of having a human patient to study where that study would be most effective, which might lower the risks during the next outbreak. I may be way off in my assessment, and though when I hear an assessment of me as a communist with loyalty to .gov which is so far off base its ridiculous I have got to question your reasoning.

Overmedicatedun, what posts of mine besides dealing with Ebola have you not agreed with?

Are you a Phd Microbiologist, or MD specializing in the field, or have any education or training that would give weight to your opinion ? (Same question to the guy on the other side of the argument)

Most of us here, including myself, are laypeople. We are trying to evaluate the various aspects of this issue as much as we can given no training in the field at all.

(I do have a healthy skepticism, however. It comes from the experience of witnessing such pandemic scares many times in the past and seeing that they turned into nothing. It also comes from historical research in how those in government and in private corporations have used fear to manipulate the public. This is done for financial profit, control, and/or justification of their existence -- But I don't really know if this situation is a real threat or not at this point.)

- Waste (what exactly happens to the food, utensils, and other everyday items he has come into contact with? However, short of incineration, how can we be 100% certain that there are no further modes of contamination from here?)

- Human Waste ( does this eventually go into the normal sewage system? Are special precautions taken here?)

- What if they are wrong about how long this virus can live on ordinary objects?

2) Ambulance decontamination? Is this ambulance going to be reused in short order? What is the risk of something not being decontaminated properly? I mean obviously stretching it here, but: We saw the man walking on pavement as he exited the ambulance, I mean technically, how could the bottom of his feet be sterile after exiting the plane/ambulance?

3) how does the hospital deal with the human waste issue? They don't just simply flush this man's waste down a toilet and have it reach the general sewage system of Atlanta right?

4) What is an *acceptable* level of risk for the general population that even one mistake is made during this quarantine? I mean, I'm not panicing, I'm going about my daily routine but let's be realistic here. Are we talking 1:1,000; 1:100,000; 1:10,000,000. As a society what is the acceptable risk? Because the ONLY certainty, is that if this situation had enough reiterations (lets say conceptually, alternative parallel universes), that in at least one, if not many, something goes wrong. I mean isn't this the same discussion as, should we have nuclear power? Knowing the potential, though albeit low liklihood, but catastrophic when failing, risk?

The bodily wastes are simply flushed at Emory Hospital. The hospital is located in Dekalb County That section of town's waste water system then connects into the City of Atlanta System for treatment, before it is dumped into the Chattahoochee River. Both Dekalb County's and the City of Atlanta's waste water treatment programs are operating under EPA consent decrees due to a history of massive spills of raw sewage.

As of the end of 2012:"The city of Atlanta had 24 major spills of 10,000 gallons or more in the past three years. Combined, the spills were more than 28 million gallons. The city of Atlanta had 24 major spills of 10,000 gallons or more in the past three years. Combined, the spills were more than 28 million gallons.More than 150 major spills were recorded in the five-county core region of metroAtlantasince January 2010, an average of roughly one major spill per week. The spills amounted to nearly 38.6 million gallons of discharge.That tally did not include hundreds of smaller incidents that make up the majority of sewage spills."

According to Saturday's AJC (link is subscription only) Dr. Ribner of Emory is quoted as saying "medical waste coming out of the unit will be sterilized, but the patients' personal waste will go into the county sewage system just like any other patient's waste."

We are doomed. If the CDC allows bodily fluids such as excrement into the public sewer system - they are insane. Even if in the past the virus cannot be proven to be passed via this mode - it can modify itself at any time.

Of course they treat the waste of those infected with Ebola in a special manner. That is why I think people on here are being irrational, who would actually think that they would just flush it, and where are they getting the information to tout it as fact?

They should send all these Ebola patients straight to Fort Detrick. I'm ready to bet that those guys wanted some of them in US, for "research purposes". Well, they should "research" them all they want, but in their own fucking facility !

If he has Ebola, he is in level 4 isolation. His wastes are NOT being flushed into the sewer system! Nothing that leaves his body, including breath, is leaving that facility. The air from that room is filtered and scrubbed. All body products are incinerated.
The danger from him is passed. It's where he was before that raises the questions.

Well, part of the irrationality may be due to having 'spokesmen' come out and say stupid shit. I understand someone named Ribney supposedly told folks that the patient's waste will go into the sewer system, just like everyone else's.

First of all, red bag waste is not handled the same way as normal waste. And an isolation unit does not mix its waste in with the general hospital garbage. All going in or out is controlled, and gets different handling.

Maybe a doctor working there isn't aware of that, but then that is why you pick your spokesmen carefully. But if this Ribney DID say that, then you know why folks get so upset over these things.

I am scared but hardly irrational. Just because there have been instances of monkeys and infected individuals brought to this country with no epidemic ensuing does not mean this should be done. Had Ebola Restin been transmitted by aerosol and lab workers were infected, there was a great possibility of a serious outbreak.

Each outbreak of Ebola in Africa has produced more fatalities. This one is the worst. By this fact, I believe there are a possibility of new mechanisms involved so containment would be the safest choice until they are elucidated in a control lab setting.

Actually viral cellular uptake can be ph dependent so the sterno idea may have some validity. Shit... Note to self. First buy stock in sterno company, THEN suggest remedy. Someone got rich suggesting duct tape for anthrax.

Dear lord, I can imagine some fertile mind coming up with a home brew therapy for Ebola. I guess I'm too honest to get rich.

There are many alternative medical doctors recommending people alter their diets to keep their pH above 7.20, on the alkaline side... They assert that cancer cannot live in an alkaline environment, along with prevention of many other maladies... It's next to impossible to achieve though if you eat western food...

As long as people rely on for profit drug researchers, the idea of management of lillness will win out over cure of illness. Cures are profit destroyers, management of cronic illness is one of earth's largets drivers of corporate profit. This is simply a fact. Capitalism does some things very well, but it also fails totally in other things. This is just common sense based on observable facts. Those who cling to ideology that everything MUST be for profit will get a world with many fucked up things. Let capitalism do what it does best and allow it to work. But where it can't work well, like in finding cures for cronic disease or infectious disase, then collective work on cures via government funding is just simple use of human intelligence.

Cancer, why cure any form of cancer? For people it would be a miracle. For drug companies, any cure would be a death sentence to profits. This is just simple fact. In the market place, profit trumps human welfare when it comes to cures for mans worst illnesses.

It is just too bad that drug research does not fit the for profit model. I prefer to take capitalism whenever it can do best, but when it can't deliver, then we need to use a collective approach.

along these lines, there's also the question of private property versus commons. should every piece of property be private? or should there be commons? commons were popular in my youth, but have been disappearing over the decades since. i'm also one of those 'unregulate everything' people, but it seems 'private property' may not be the answer to 'everything'.

Nothing about big pharma or health care has anything to capitalism. In fact, they're the most regulated industries on the planet, and the skyrocketing costs are a direct result of decades of government intervention. Even the fact that health insurance is required just to get your foot in the door is due to government intervention (it all started with wage controls).

"then collective work on cures via government funding is just simple use of human intelligence."

And do tell, how will the government determine what level of resources to commit? How is this different than the government knowing the best level of the supply of cars that were needed in communist Russia? The level of food that should be produced? What type, when it should be delivered, and to whom it should be delivered? Who will decide these questions?

Will bureaucrats in government magically know the correct level of research, the correct ammount resources that should be committed to this endeavor, and administered to who and by what criteria? What market signals will regulate their behavior? What if their "cures" aren't cures, and you have no choice or only have misinformation from the government because it is "their" cure? If you have the right to decide not to take their cure, then would you be morally objected to them using your resources, or would you be objectionable to them using force for the collective good? What if you believed it to work, but others did not? Would you force them to take it? Exactly what level of society's resources should be used for each cure? Do we find it acceptable to force others to have a lower standard of living in order to go after the most common diseases? What about the exceptionally rare?

But hey, this is just simple human intelligence here, what could ever go wrong? Let's just use a system with no feedback loop except ignorant public opinion 1-issue voting as our failsafe against abuse.

You sound like a central planner... Riddle me this, just why does a 'government' NEED to know, manage and manipulate all of these markets you mention? We don't need you, go away...

You have completely missed the point... Big Pharma suppresses cures for diseases and have for the last century... Why? Because there is no continuing revenue stream from a cure, but string a patient along on a medication that cost thousands with no real improvement and there is your revenue... The chemo-therapy industry is my prime example... The cure for cancer has been known and suppressed since the 1930's... Just like electrogravitic unified field power sources...

I am partially with you. When a private, capitalist enterprise has a third party payer footing the bill nobody is concerned about "costs". Remove that an "cure" becomes the primary goal of the person paying for it.

Have you never heard of a future's market? Of paying for the development of a product? Of 'Kickstarter' or its many immitators?

There are, at any given point in time, a dozen or so viruses and other diseases that could get out of control. I would buy into a kickstarter project to guarantee my family gets the vaccine from an early production batch. The date of my payment determines my list in line, and becomes a saleable product in itself. Just like the landrush in internet names.

So there would be no problem in a free market for medical goods, contrary to your supposition. The reason there is no such is the FDA. The FDA exists to protect big pharma and does so with regulations ostensibly ensuring safety and effiicacy. It doesn't and can't and is merely part of the crony-capitalist medical cartel

See Ron Unz's essay on the Vioxx scandal if you don't grasp this. And realize the same CDC that puts out a bulletin every Feb about an extra 30 flu case deaths in Duluth is the CDC that missed a 2% jump in the death rate that occurred only among elderly men. And also never mentioned it when Vioxx was finally pulled off the market and the death rate reverted to historical trends.

Our crony-capitalist cartel does not fit the for-profit model, that is the failure.

"It is just too bad that drug research does not fit the for profit model."

It is just not true. A barrage of antibiotics were discovered and introduced by these companies. These agents usually cure in a week and, on a macro level they reduced death from bacterial infection from 53% to less than 5% in the last hundred years. And in it haydays it was much more capitalism.

Cancer is hundreds of different diseases, all require different treatment thus different medications. They offer enough profit potentials even if some ends up cured. Rest assured after curing one disease thare are plenty remain to die of.

Since landing in the U.S., he said he's had no physical contact with anyone and has only been near his daughter, who picked him up from the airport. Jamison said he plans to hole up at home until the 21-day incubation period is completed.

What a Humanitarian, so worried about the plight of the African Negro he'd fly home on crowded plane, and only expose his daughter to a possible horrid death ... the word 'Hero' comes to mind, right?

Had he any balls he'd have driven himself into a set of gasoline pumps while smoking a stogey.

Right? Because he didn't put all those people on the plane and by extension their families or his daughter at risk if he is wrong about asymptomatic transmission. Fucking brilliant.

You know as a gun enthusiast there are two types of people I'm the most wary around. Those who are completely ignorant of the risks (no training, no common sense), and those who are too comfortable with the risks and become careless (we all know that guy or of that guy who accidently pulled the trigger on a hunting trip when he got spooked by a dog or tripped etc). In this case, the doctor is a couple of beers in, pointing his gun in an unsafe manner, and has his finger on the trigger because he's too comfortable with the "known" risks.

That begs the question, doesn't it ?
Is Ebola in the country & is it an actual substantial threat ?
And what evidence is there - how reliable is it ?
There are all sorts of instances when WHO, CDC, various pharma companies, etc have warned of 'pandemics' and it was later found to be a scam.

Is this the case now ? Don't know, more evidence is needed to determine that.

I reside thirty minutes away from Morristown.
It's a huuuuge shit sandwich and we're allllllll gonna take a bite. It's a lovely Fucking war. Over

Wtf I'm saying...I drilled a chica that's uh been round, like, seriously rammed her for several hours without any protection (other than my faith we're all fucked no matter what) and to boot got down in a seriously freaky way.
Hell, I've got zero Fucking concerns.

I do my part. What, when and where I can. Participated in two wars. Stole my own liberty like a thief in the night. The only royalty I have ever bowed to was the Kang of rocking and/or rock. Elvis lives, baby, whoo. Bow to the Kang to.

Hey, was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor? It ain't over till we say it's over.
Or it's over. Yeh, it'd def be over if'n it was over.
I'm outta this forgone shithole in 7 Tuesdays yo.
South China sea here I come. Methinks you all gonna get what ya deserve and I'll be on a South China sea beach where Washington cunts can't project power and I'll be living with zero Fucking concerns.
And the band played on...

Nobody uses any common sense when it comes to these so-called "deadly viruses". Everybody panics, including most here on ZH.

Funny how many symptoms attributed to ebola are caused by drugs taken for ebola. No, drugs never are the problem, it's always the virus. No, malnutrition and unsanitary filthy living conditions that cause the same symptoms as the alleged virus aren't the problem, just the virus.

People are clueless frightened idiots scared out of their wits by these imaginary germs.

You missed Rappoport's point completely. Perhaps it's because you don't know his considerable volume of work as a journalist specializing in the medical field. This goes back many years. He even interviewed an insider who was a retired propaganda master working for the elites & specializing in the medical area. Medicine is used to control & manipulate the public because they think "it's scientific" and won't question the medical establishment. Today they are more influential than the clergy in Europe during the Medieval period. With medicine, you can have a lot of control in how people live & die.

Rappoport's uses the term 'germ' as an invented 'cause' for disease, that may not be fully proven. For example, he shed considerable doubt that HIV is the cause of what is termed as 'AIDS'.

This is a totally new ecosytem for the virus to be in. Emory Hospital will be dumping flushable body waste from the ebola patients directly into the very old and very poorly maintained municipal sewage system. Many rats, raccoons and possums live in the sewer and storm water run off pipes here in Atlanta. What could go wrong?