Can you provide timing and type of job/ industry to better understand perspective.

That's what I was thinking, because if it's a teaching position, you need a minimum of a bachelor degree and an appropriate teaching qualification now, in order to get a Z work visa for teaching in China. Although certificates and diplomas can easily be forged and/or the appropriate bribes made.

BTW I am legit myself, but I do know some people that are teaching with phony documents.

I don't know, skinny tall guy wearing a baseball cap. I don't want to get involved to the point where I knew his name. That group was all into the motorbike track.
The other two who you bolded, I worked with; I remember their names but don't want to put them here for obvious reasons.

There are obviously exceptions to my generalizations (I know a couple very brilliant and inspiring individuals from when I worked in Beijing who could be successful anywhere in the world who have Chinese wives now and are staying in China for the long term) but I'll share my logic. I'm sure I'll catch flak for this from some people who disagree but I stand by my assertions. Basically, I feel that there has to be something wrong with somebody for them to like living in China. Because China relative most countries sucks politically, environmentally, professionally, and sometimes socially (a friend of mine had some chinaman spit on her for an entire bus-ride until she got off in Zhu Hai, pity I wasn't there at the time) there has to be something that they can do in China that they can't do back at home. Ignoring people there temporarily for the experience, MOST of the people there for a number of years match one or more of the following: For many people it's that they can have a job which doesn't require much work and pays for their alcoholism, drinking from the time they finish their classes until late in the night. Or there are the sexpats in their 30's-40's who quit their careers in the US/Canada/UK/Australia so they could fuck their students or hire underage prostitutes (my first night in Zhu Hai I saw some guy walking home with a girl who couldn't have been older than 14, he was in his 60's at least and all his friends were cheering him). Some of them run away from their responsibilities at home like estranged children/ex-wives and want to act like a kid again, so you see a lot of overgrown man-children again in their 30's+ acting like 18 year olds, riding motorcycles all day and drinking without having professional goals, etc. Lastly there are people who are simply psychopaths and couldn't get a job anywhere else. I know at my old school there was a guy who used to teach for Beijing Normal University who was then hired by the incompetent HR to teach. He is a psychopath with paranoid delusions, may have gone down for statutory rape in Australia, has a wife, beats her, has extreme anger and violence issues. Everybody knows this, but he's still allowed to teach. Nobody in their right mind would keep him around anywhere else. In his company is a dyslexic who can't write words of course teaching English and is also a violent alcoholic, and another alcoholic who kept having affairs with the students so the school of course expelled the students to cover it up.
Of course, there are occasionally talented and brilliant people if you're lucky, but they are in the minority. That's my logic/experiences as far as people- in terms of work experience being a black hole, let's assume best case scenario that you're a teacher so the experience should be considered relevant. I know what teaching at a private language school is worth, and unless it's New Oriental (adult or gao kao division) or maybe wallstreet then it's basically worthless. If it's New Oriental or Wallstreet then it can vary depending on whose centre you're working in, but they are very easy jobs which don't require many skills. If they taught in a Chinese public/private school then I know that they were entertainers for a different class 1 hour a week and they did next to no assessment or anything really outside of being a white face and talking in a foreign language. The only experience I would consider good would be in an international school. As an aside, I would never hire someone educated in China. Going to a university in China is probably worse for your brain than spending 4 years after highschool sucking dick for crack rocks.

this is spot on. I have a friend who is currently teaching there and he said the exact same thing. For him, he wanted a change in his life and decided to move to China and said that he was basically an entertainer and not much effort was required for him to do his job. Luckily, he saw there was no future for him there, had his fun, and will be coming back soon.

I remember when I visited China in December i could never imagine myself living there... People are super rude, the pollution is horrible, living conditions for the most part are bad.... But to each their own, right?

this is spot on. I have a friend who is currently teaching there and he said the exact same thing. For him, he wanted a change in his life and decided to move to China and said that he was basically an entertainer and not much effort was required for him to do his job. Luckily, he saw there was no future for him there, had his fun, and will be coming back soon.

There's even less future in a dole queue, I wont be back in a hurry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokr32

remember when I visited China in December i could never imagine myself living there... People are super rude, the pollution is horrible, living conditions for the most part are bad.... But to each their own, right?

They're not rude in Xilinhot, some of the nicest and friendliest people I know. They can certainly be rude in Beijing though, even standing in line is a completely alien concept to them. They can be animals there. Living conditions can widely vary wherever you are, I've had shit living conditions in the UK before now. No pollution in Xilin Gol League either, the air is clean and the sky is blue.

There's even less future in a dole queue, I wont be back in a hurry.
They're not rude in Xilinhot, some of the nicest and friendliest people I know. They can certainly be rude in Beijing though, even standing in line is a completely alien concept to them. They can be animals there. Living conditions can widely vary wherever you are, I've had shit living conditions in the UK before now. No pollution in Xilin Gol League either, the air is clean and the sky is blue.

He was able to secure a job through one of his father's friends and it seems like he'll be making decent money...

And I agree, not all Chinese people are rude, as we met several super friendly people who went out of their way to help us. However, Beijing is the complete opposite. It seemed to me as though the ones from Shanghai were more friendly... but I'm not sure because I was only there for a couple of weeks.

As a matter of fact, one of my parents' closest friends son moved to China 4-5 years ago and is absolutely loving it. From what he says, once you get to know the people, they're nice and make you feel like family (he got himself a chinese girlfriend). He's not living in Shanghai, Beijing or Guangzhou, so I don't know how his experience would differ had he been living in one of those places.

Get a job is easy in China,but what job you are interesting?And can you speak Chinese?

I'm interesting a high paying job where I booze and schmooze with Chinese billionaires. Preferably those who won't later poison me. I think there's an opening presently if Mrs. Gu has learnt her lesson. Do you think speaking Chinese will help me keep my life?

He was able to secure a job through one of his father's friends and it seems like he'll be making decent money...

And I agree, not all Chinese people are rude, as we met several super friendly people who went out of their way to help us. However, Beijing is the complete opposite. It seemed to me as though the ones from Shanghai were more friendly... but I'm not sure because I was only there for a couple of weeks.

As a matter of fact, one of my parents' closest friends son moved to China 4-5 years ago and is absolutely loving it. From what he says, once you get to know the people, they're nice and make you feel like family (he got himself a chinese girlfriend). He's not living in Shanghai, Beijing or Guangzhou, so I don't know how his experience would differ had he been living in one of those places.

Beijing and Beijingers can be just horrible, I think what Eason posted about it earlier is very much true. Rather surprised he apparently lasted two years there. But then myself. I've found Hong Kong not to be a friendly place either, seems like someone always trying to swindle you.

In Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia on the other hand, I can literally leave my front door unlocked and my windows wide open and still feel totally safe. Probably because it's such a small and quite remote city, many people know each other, and almost everyone knows my name and who I am now. Xilinhot is certainly not a poor city, unlike some. The state middle school I work in has facilities that many UK schools can only dream of. It's probably down to very favourable government spending in this region.Edited by MikeDT - 7/16/12 at 4:03am

I was wondering how easy it is for americans to get job's in China? My girlfriend is looking to start teaching there in a year or so and I am going to need to find out what I can do about getting a job. Has anyone had this experience? Any suggestions? Thanks for any help.

Well I have worked in finance for 8 months in Beijing (long time ago) Do as you would do in US, apply online before you go there. I don't know about schools but when I was there they even paid my flight ticket :) What kind of job do you want and what education do you have?

There are obviously exceptions to my generalizations (I know a couple very brilliant and inspiring individuals from when I worked in Beijing who could be successful anywhere in the world who have Chinese wives now and are staying in China for the long term) but I'll share my logic. I'm sure I'll catch flak for this from some people who disagree but I stand by my assertions. Basically, I feel that there has to be something wrong with somebody for them to like living in China. Because China relative most countries sucks politically, environmentally, professionally, and sometimes socially (a friend of mine had some chinaman spit on her for an entire bus-ride until she got off in Zhu Hai, pity I wasn't there at the time) there has to be something that they can do in China that they can't do back at home. Ignoring people there temporarily for the experience, MOST of the people there for a number of years match one or more of the following: For many people it's that they can have a job which doesn't require much work and pays for their alcoholism, drinking from the time they finish their classes until late in the night. Or there are the sexpats in their 30's-40's who quit their careers in the US/Canada/UK/Australia so they could fuck their students or hire underage prostitutes (my first night in Zhu Hai I saw some guy walking home with a girl who couldn't have been older than 14, he was in his 60's at least and all his friends were cheering him). Some of them run away from their responsibilities at home like estranged children/ex-wives and want to act like a kid again, so you see a lot of overgrown man-children again in their 30's+ acting like 18 year olds, riding motorcycles all day and drinking without having professional goals, etc. Lastly there are people who are simply psychopaths and couldn't get a job anywhere else. I know at my old school there was a guy who used to teach for Beijing Normal University who was then hired by the incompetent HR to teach. He is a psychopath with paranoid delusions, may have gone down for statutory rape in Australia, has a wife, beats her, has extreme anger and violence issues. Everybody knows this, but he's still allowed to teach. Nobody in their right mind would keep him around anywhere else. In his company is a dyslexic who can't write words of course teaching English and is also a violent alcoholic, and another alcoholic who kept having affairs with the students so the school of course expelled the students to cover it up.
Of course, there are occasionally talented and brilliant people if you're lucky, but they are in the minority. That's my logic/experiences as far as people- in terms of work experience being a black hole, let's assume best case scenario that you're a teacher so the experience should be considered relevant. I know what teaching at a private language school is worth, and unless it's New Oriental (adult or gao kao division) or maybe wallstreet then it's basically worthless. If it's New Oriental or Wallstreet then it can vary depending on whose centre you're working in, but they are very easy jobs which don't require many skills. If they taught in a Chinese public/private school then I know that they were entertainers for a different class 1 hour a week and they did next to no assessment or anything really outside of being a white face and talking in a foreign language. The only experience I would consider good would be in an international school. As an aside, I would never hire someone educated in China. Going to a university in China is probably worse for your brain than spending 4 years after highschool sucking dick for crack rocks.

i am still reading through this thread but..

i am in Hangzhou right now. i concur with statements the likes of:

"I feel that there has to be something wrong with somebody for them to like living in China."

YMMV depending on the locations and circumstances of your work in China. it's competitive though, I don't think an american or whatever can just waltz in and immediately pick up status. my mandarin sucks and i am barely getting by doing normal things. I can't comment on the sexpats or any of the other creepers b/c i dunno.

i am still reading through this thread but..
i am in Hangzhou right now.

Hangzhou is actually quite nice, certainly much better than Beijing IMO. Spent a year there in the Xiaoshan district. Prefer Inner Mongolia though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphite

i concur with statements the likes of:

"I feel that there has to be something wrong with somebody for them to like living in China."
YMMV depending on the locations and circumstances of your work in China. it's competitive though, I don't think an american or whatever can just waltz in and immediately pick up status. my mandarin sucks and i am barely getting by doing normal things. I can't comment on the sexpats or any of the other creepers b/c i dunno.
But i miss the USA :-(PS i have a legal business visa.

Business F visas are relatively easy to obtain, either the company you're doing business with arranges it or you go to a visa agency. Work Z visas can be much harder to get, depending on the kind of work you're doing, because there can be medicals, PSB interviews and other bureaucracy you have to go through.

Hangzhou is actually quite nice, certainly much better than Beijing IMO. Spent a year there in the Xiaoshan district. Prefer Inner Mongolia though.
Business F visas are relatively easy to obtain, either the company you're doing business with arranges it or you go to a visa agency. Work Z visas can be much harder to get, depending on the kind of work you're doing, because there can be medicals, PSB interviews and other bureaucracy you have to go through.

Yes hangzhou is pretty good. I'm really not complaining. It's the only city that I've experienced in China so I don't have anything to go by. I can tell it's a significantly wealthier region judging by the number of Porsches, BMW, VW, and Land Rovers I'm seeing.

Also +1 on the F visa -- the company wrote me a nice letter when I applied and things went through completely smoothly. I dunno anything about the Z one, i'll take your word for it that's its much more difficult. Maybe in a year when I graduate I'll have to fight that battle.

This is a good thread though. I wish I'd stumbled upon it before I got here.

Yes hangzhou is pretty good. I'm really not complaining. It's the only city that I've experienced in China so I don't have anything to go by. I can tell it's a significantly wealthier region judging by the number of Porsches, BMW, VW, and Land Rovers I'm seeing.

Oh yeh, Hangzhou is quite affluent. LOL Although I'm staying in Inner Mongolia now for the forseeable future, because I see so much development and opportunity here. Xilinhot where I'm based is certainly not poor, has more than it's fair share of BMWs, Mercs, Porsches and Land Rovers, mostly with Beijing license plates, because that's where they buy them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphite

Also +1 on the F visa -- the company wrote me a nice letter when I applied and things went through completely smoothly. I dunno anything about the Z one, i'll take your word for it that's its much more difficult. Maybe in a year when I graduate I'll have to fight that battle.

I think they work on the principle of, can a Chinese national do the work that a foreigner is doing? After all there's a heck of a lot of people in China, who might be looking for employment. My employer arranged my Z visa, but I had to do the medicals, interviews, documentation, form filling, etc. I'm sure Z visas can be bought with the appropriate bribe, but if one is caught it means probable deportation.....or worse.Edited by MikeDT - 8/5/12 at 6:12am

Basically, I feel that there has to be something wrong with somebody for them to like living in China. Because China relative most countries sucks politically, environmentally, professionally, and sometimes socially (a friend of mine had some chinaman spit on her for an entire bus-ride until she got off in Zhu Hai, pity I wasn't there at the time) there has to be something that they can do in China that they can't do back at home.

I spent 2 years in China after graduating from college in 2009 and thoroughly enjoyed living there. There are a lot of things to enjoy about China other than its facilitation of alcoholism and lechery. It seems a lot of people don't like China or Chinese people though (it's all a matter of opinion). The problem is that while the people who don't like China but don't have major character flaws just leave China, the people who hate China but love booze/prostitutes/laziness all stick around because there is nowhere else better to pursue their habits.

So if you like China and want to live there, but you also want to have a social life, you have to choose between fully assimilating into Chinese culture or hanging out with transients and bums who have no Chinese friends and speak little Chinese. There doesn't seem to be much in between. Assimilating is kind of a bitch, in that you have to marry someone.

I have friends in Shanghai and Beijing who claim it's better there--that there are more and more young professional foreigners who actually bother to learn Chinese and even Chinese people who socialize outside of work and family.

Also, China is a big fucking country and not London, Hong Kong, Singapore, or Tokyo. Going there without being able to speak Mandarin will close a lot of doors. Imagine someone who didn't speak any English moving to the US. Even in New York, that would suck, and pretty much anywhere else would be boring as hell.