Even people who agree with you might be a contrary dick to you too if you were interrupting their Hawaiian vacation to discuss how radical muslims are America's fault.

, he was an electrical contractor who flew all the time to Hilo and we spent most of our time bitching about No Rest Airline's (Northwest) horrid service - he asked for coffee three times and when it never came the Christian used the f-word.

Originally Posted by Resonance10

Pat, I would agree that the US bears some responsibility for the directing of attacks by radical Muslims against America itself. It is not true that America is responsible for the movements themselves.
Islamic/Religious Fundamentalists by definition are going to find a fight, it just so happens that the land of the free represents everything they are threatened by.
These groups are as culpable as America in crimes against their own, limited only by their capacity. I would contend they are ideologically more damaging to their own people than America/Western 'democratic' 'capitalistic' ideals. I would also differentiate between Muslim and Islamist in this discussion.

The argument runs like this: US (CIA) put Shah in power (effectively killing any chance of democracy in Iran). SAVAK, the secret police (trained by US) go so far as to make parents watch their children's arms being cut off. They effectively killed any peaceful opposition; the only ones willing to risk having boiling oil poured into their assholes and such were the real radicals, therefore the opposition to the Shah was reduced to the radicals.

"Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

The argument runs like this: US (CIA) put Shah in power (effectively killing any chance of democracy in Iran). SAVAK, the secret police (trained by US) go so far as to make parents watch their children's arms being cut off. They effectively killed any peaceful opposition; the only ones willing to risk having boiling oil poured into their assholes and such were the real radicals, therefore the opposition to the Shah was reduced to the radicals.

Ok. But there is dispute over how much of a connection there is with those incidents and 'modern terrorism'. A lot of dispute. It could be argued that there was inspiration for the Taliban in the actions of the revolutionaries, but that it is thin at best.

Again I am not saying there is no blame to be laid at the West's feet just that were not up to our neck in it.

Obama raising Black army to kill whites

Pat,
The Muslim Brotherhood dates back to 1928! The CIA precursor OSS was formed in 1942. Explain the Functioning of the CIA Time Machine or stop throwing out crap like the US caused radical Islam. On a more general note Islamic states supporting Piracy harassed the United State when we were one of the weakest countries on the planet; so by your typical reasoning we are (as Victims) entitled to do whatever we want to this region now. Go Victimhood!

Pat,
The Muslim Brotherhood dates back to 1928! The CIA precursor OSS was formed in 1942. Explain the Functioning of the CIA Time Machine or stop throwing out crap like the US caused radical Islam. On a more general note Islamic states supporting Piracy harassed the United State when we were one of the weakest countries on the planet; so by your typical reasoning we are (as Victims) entitled to do whatever we want to this region now. Go Victimhood!

Resonance10, I'll look at those links later, I got to clean up our vacation rental and look at real estate in Hilo today.

Mike, I would like it if you could temper your statements. I don't like "crap." It's not crap at all, after all, what do Osama, Saddam, and H W Bush have in common? All were on the CIA payroll. Historically the issue is more complex, but I'm not inclined to respond to accusations of crap.

And look a little closer at the "shores of Tripoli." You want to call something crap, then here's your big chance. To my knowledge it was the first time and set the precedence of ignoring the professional military (or in Rummy's case, firing dozens of Generals) and making expedient choices that lead to disaster.

The US forces, a lot of Navy, a handful of Marines and hundreds of mercenaries, fought to end piracy AND to restore the pasha, Hamet Caramelli, a liberal "good guy" in their eyes, and get rid of his asshole brother. In typical short sighted foolery, the US betrayed Hamet and went with the dictator, just like the US has done ALL the time, all over the world. The Marines and their commanders were furious, but just like what the fools did in Vietnam and Iraq, DC decides policy and over rode the soldiers.

Last edited by patfromlogan; 2/28/2013 1:26pm at .

"Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez