An Interview with John Milius

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The writer-director behind Apocalypse Now, Conan, Red Dawn, and more discusses his career.

By Ken P.

Writer-Director John Milius has had a long and eventful career thus far in Hollywood. Often outspoken about his political views and his lack of love for the Hollywood system, he's written and directed numerous films to critical acclaim and strong fan followings, including Magnum Force, The Wind and the Lion, Big Wednesday, Conan the Barbarian, Red Dawn, and Apocalypse Now (for which he shared an Oscar nomination with Francis Ford Coppola).This career-comprehensive interview, conducted in 2001, covers the breadth of Milius's career. It also discusses the early rumblings of a proposed Conan 3, more of which you can learn about in our coverage here.

IGN FILMFORCE: I did notice that a lot of interviews have been popping up with you, lately.JOHN MILIUS: I know... I'm getting hot again. I guess because I'm still colorful.IGNFF: And your product still stands up.MILIUS: I guess... I don't know. There seems to be suddenly a rebirth of interest in a number of things. I get treated well by the public, and by the film community &#Array; even the sort of archival and critical part of it. I mean, the old film critics just excoriated me. But I'm sort of treated well now, by that part of it. But Hollywood itself, they bring me the steaming shovel full of s**t everyday.IGNFF: Do you think that some of the reverence that's being accorded to you by the public is the fact that there are very few people that have stuck around for as long?MILIUS: Yeah, I think that's it ... It's like Jesse James. He became really popular because he lasted so long. You know, there is some degree of truth to the fact that time will dignify anything, too.IGNFF: Just for the sake of still being there?MILIUS: Yeah, I mean, they start looking at you differently. You know, I find it very strange when movies that I made that were just excoriated &#Array; I mean that I was just vilified for &#Array; are now looked at as classics.IGNFF: Do you think that has less to do with time going by, as the reticence of people to afford it any levelheaded criticism erodes?MILIUS: Yeah, I think there's some degree. There was a lot of politicizing in the criticism at the time. A lot of critics had it out for me.IGNFF: And to a great many people, you were considered persona non grata in Hollywood, isn't that true?MILIUS: Oh yeah. A lot of people thought of me as a threat to Western civilization.IGNFF: To consider an artist and a filmmaker a threat to Western civilization &#Array; what basis did they have for that?MILIUS: Well, they sort of looked at me the way the Romans looked at the Germans, I think.IGNFF: This barbarian at the gates?MILIUS: Yeah ... The Hell's Angels, and Sonny Barger, who I know, he was always looked at that way, too. I also thought of myself as the Sonny Barger of the film industry.IGNFF: How palpable is this shift in perception to you?MILIUS: Well, I mean, people do talk to me. I haven't been made a non-person.IGNFF: Which at one time, you were, isn't that correct?MILIUS: Yeah, yeah.IGNFF: How does it feel to be a non-person in Hollywood?MILIUS: Well, you know, I mean, it's never nice to be a non-person. It's not something you look forward to.IGNFF: How exactly does the Hollywood community negate the existence of somebody?MILIUS: Well, they just pretend they're not there.IGNFF: From a job point of view, or a personal point of view?MILIUS: Yeah, you don't get to do the work you want to do and stuff. I've always been able to survive by writing, though. They've always sort of held their nose and made deals with me as a writer. But, for a long time, every script I ever wrote got made. Now there's about four or five of them, sitting on shelves. I don't want to tell you, because these are sort of still secret deals, but a number of them are going to get made now. And so it's sort of interesting, you know? These things were sitting around. The administrations who had them written usually were fired and changed or something; new administration came in and it wasn't hip or something.IGNFF: Beyond hip, do you think sometimes it's just a perception that somebody has, based on other people's statements? "Well, if they say he must be this loose cannon that will cause the end of civilization, then he really must be."MILIUS: Yeah, there's a lot of that, too.IGNFF: At which point was that feeling its highest?MILIUS: Oh, I don't know &#Array; yesterday?IGNFF: Hasn't there been some loosening?MILIUS: There's loosening, but then they tighten it up again, you know. You never know when you're going to be considered un-hip ... The people that really pass judgment on you really have nothing to do with what you do, usually.IGNFF: What would be the perfect situation for you? From a "being able to work" point of view...MILIUS: What would be the perfect situation for me? I think when I started in the business, when I had my first aspirations of being in the business, I sort of pictured an idyllic life. That was to make B Westerns, and I think that if I had been born twenty years before, I'd have probably been killed in World War II &#Array; but if I had not been killed in World War II, I would have made B Westerns.IGNFF: What enamored you so with B Westerns?MILIUS: I like Westerns, and they made them out of Corriganville, and they weren't pretentious.IGNFF: Do you think that the film community that you eventually wafted into was pretentious, to an extent?MILIUS: Films are always pretentious. There's nothing more pretentious than a filmmaker. You know, an egotistical filmmaker who thinks that they're doing God's gift to humanity or something &#Array; it's just entertainment. It's not really too much different than the carnies.IGNFF: Isn't some level of that ego needed to even become a filmmaker?MILIUS: I don't know. Everybody's a filmmaker today.IGNFF: But ego, to some extent, also implies a strong personality to hold onto that ego, doesn't it?MILIUS: Yes, it's a strong personality sometimes. But it also shows no restraint and discipline.IGNFF: Do you think that's what led to the downfall of so many filmmakers that didn't make it out of the '70s?MILIUS: A lot of them, yeah. But, I mean, egotism is not a good quality. It's not something to be admired or even tolerated. It wouldn't be tolerated in a field commander and it shouldn't be tolerated in a movie director.IGNFF: Do you think it's because egotism has been co-opted? A lot of people look at the '70s and see it as this grand, creative time where the filmmakers were afforded an extraordinary level of control.MILIUS: The filmmakers always have a great level of control. I mean, when I made one of my best films, which I made most recently, Rough Riders &#Array; I don't know if you've seen Rough Riders?IGNFF: Yes.MILIUS: Well, I think that's one of my very best films. And they had a lot of controls on me, at Turner, and I just ran over them.IGNFF: With any rebuttal from them?MILIUS: Oh yeah, they hated me, but I got the film made, didn't I?IGNFF: And in the end that's what matters...MILIUS: Well, you know, that's what you have to do. You have to be true to the vision that you start out to do, otherwise what are you even there for?IGNFF: How did they try and restrain you? What points did they say needed restraint, when they say, "We're working with John Milius, these are the things we need to look out for." What, in their mind, were the things they needed to look out for?MILIUS: Well, I mean, when somebody comes in and gives you script notes and ideas that they would like about certain things in there, and you don't know who this person is. They have no qualifications, you know? That's just insane. I mean, I'm willing to listen &#Array; to anybody. I always listen to anybody. But I'm not going to take orders from somebody like that.IGNFF: Especially if you feel it's detrimental to the product.MILIUS: And it always is. Especially when they want to take out things, or change things that will vastly change the story that you're going to do, or vastly change the realism of it, or the motivations of characters and things like that.IGNFF: I've always found it ironic that someone could think that they're in a position to make dictation on proper editing and good writing when they're an executive and not a writer or an editor.MILIUS: And have no experience. No life experience, no experience in their job, no qualifications ... arbitrary things of what they think they like, or that they want to make a contribution so that they can justify their job or show you who's boss or something like that. I've always had trouble with authority.IGNFF: Do you think the industry today has fostered, in these executives, a belief that they are entitled to creative decisions?MILIUS: Yeah, absolutely. And that they've got to make creative decisions to be noticed, and they've got to control the director and everything else &#Array; control the creative people, because the creative people are untrustworthy. They're the people that understand commerciality and the bottom line, all this. We're just a bunch of crazy artists who would make things that would have no practical purpose whatsoever if we were left to our own desires, you know?IGNFF: I find it interesting that they believe that their creative decisions are the best, yet the attrition rate due to bad decisions, for executives, I think is much higher than filmmakers or editors or writers.MILIUS: That's because they don't do anything. They're worthless, and they can be replaced. I mean, it's very interesting why they have a high attrition rate, it's because they don't have any skills. They're frauds. They're basically bureaucrats, you know? I'm a general, I do something. I go out and fight wars and win them. They don't do that. They sit back somewhere else and worry about politics.IGNFF: I think it's also fascinating that they don't seem to learn their lessons, either. It's amazing for somebody who can get an MBA, or go through four years at Harvard or a business school, that they have very little intelligence when it comes to comprehending their mistakes.MILIUS: They don't learn. They can't &#Array; all they're learning ... their job is to keep their job. It has nothing to do with making good movies. See, we hopefully, filmmakers who are dedicated &#Array; the real filmmakers &#Array; I think are willing to die to make a good film, what they think is a good film. Once they've made that decision that this is the film, this is the way this film should be, they're willing to die out there. They're willing to put their life, risk everything &#Array; and a great example of that is Francis Coppola. He said, "I'll stay here, in the Philippines, I'll do whatever it takes. I'll go mad, I'll do anything, because this is my job and life is to make this film. This is what I'm supposed to do. It doesn't matter &#Array; if I die out here, then John will come and replace me. If he dies, then George will come and replace him. If George dies, we'll get Ken Russell."

Continue on to the second page of Ken Plume's interview with John Milius &#Array; in which Milius discusses what makes a good studio executive, the impact Spielberg and Lucas's blockbusters had on the industry, his screenwriting process, and more.