Anything that can be said to change this corporate explotation that we call goverment should be said. Too bad for this guy though, by the time the gov. is finished with him he will be wishing he had been executed...sad, very sad.

Anyone who wants to express their support, donations going towards Bradley Manning's defense fund are being accepted. As well as other events going on all over the US and Canada (unfortunately not where I live)

He's a traitor. After trial, he should be taken to the White house rose garden and put before a firing squad on global television, while a CNN style banner scrolls beneath the coverage alerting the world that this is what we do to traitors.

so we fear the truth here in America now??? we also fear knowledge and should keep it from the public all while carrying out atrocities in freedoms name? i think not... that's as un American as one could get. know who else would have been hung for treason?? George Washington, thomas jefferson ben franklin.. need i go on???
have a look at what assange and manning have brought to light then tell me we don't deserve to know the truth... fact is we can handle it and demand it we should. http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs...video.aspx

(28-12-2010 03:45 PM)The_observer Wrote: For a while I thought I stood alone in my opinion... not being a us citizen and having a different perspective... luckily I was wrong...

outside perspectives are welcomed... encouraged in fact. perhaps it will jar some of the smug self-righteousness off of some of my fellow countrymen before it becomes terminal.... sadly it seems bigotry, ignorance and arrogance have become a value some admire again. a good history lesson is needed for some... we could start with teaching about how we treated the natives when our ancestors first got here.

(28-12-2010 03:56 PM)freethinker1 Wrote: outside perspectives are welcomed... encouraged in fact. perhaps it will jar some of the smug self-righteousness off of some of my fellow countrymen before it becomes terminal.... sadly it seems bigotry, ignorance and arrogance have become a value some admire again.

That's harsh! No need to...

Anyway...
It shocked me at first that a site advocating a free mind and a thinking attitude turned out to have a real patriotic element in it. But this was my first post.

Patriotism is not a total stranger to me. My country got shot rotten in two successive world wars. Now 100 and 60 years later the scars are still visible and I can't leave home without seeing graves and monuments. That's how I perceive patriotism, as a delusion that your country is better then others because you where born in it (I might be quoting someone here but I am not sure)

The first issue is really a combination of two things: transparency and accountability. In the first release, there was no doubt in my mind that the American public not only had a right to know some of the crimes that were committed in our name, but to expect leaders to be held accountable. There were disclosures made that any democratic government or citizen of a democratic nation should find absolutely horrifying.

The second issue is around diplomacy. Being simplistic about this, nations deal with each other one of two ways: they either engage in diplomatic discourse or they wage war. There really is no middle ground. Julian Assange claims that his primary motivations are to ensure transparency and to minimize the chances of wars between nations. If we take Assange at his word, I think it's fair to ask if he's made diplomacy more or less difficult, and therefore war more or less likely. Given that his second round of disclosures were the release of US diplomatic cables, and they shared blunt assessments by US diplomats of their counterparts, as well as outing some people in foreign governments who were willing to talk to us, I think it's fair to say that Assange has actually gone contrary to his stated goal and made diplomacy more dificult, and therefore war more likely. That does not mean that I think a war will result from anything he's released, quite the contrary in fact, but I do think that he has set back diplomatic relations some between the US and other nations and that always adds some uncertainty.

Ultimately, this won't matter because no one really cares about personal opinions. Nations have interests, not friends, and finding out what a government thinks of you is vastly different from finding out that a friend really isn't a friend. The underlying interest of individual nations do not change with these revelations, so I think ultimately this is a case of "no harm, no foul". But, I do really think that Assange has really acted contrary to his stated goals.

As for Bradley Manning, if he really is guilty of the crimes which he is alleged to have committed, I think he's a criminal at best and a traitor at worst. That doesn't mean he's right or wrong, but violations of laws have very little to do with what is right or wrong.

Anyway, my primary point here is that this issue, like most issues, are not nearly as black or white as a "side" would have you believe. I think the American public - really any public in a nation - has a right to know what their government is doing, but there is a line at which it goes past a right to know and crosses over to making diplomacy so difficult that wars can ensue. We have not hit that point yet, but who appointed Manning or Assange as the arbiters of when we have?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost

You are aware Bradley Manning has been treated like garbage since his arrest, right ?

Revealing military documents that prove war crimes is a brave thing. If he is guilty of breaking laws then he should be punished but not executed.I don't think even CIA officers who leaked documents to the KGB during the cold war were executed.

(29-12-2010 02:59 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote: You are aware Bradley Manning has been treated like garbage since his arrest, right ?

Revealing military documents that prove war crimes is a brave thing. If he is guilty of breaking laws then he should be punished but not executed.I don't think even CIA officers who leaked documents to the KGB during the cold war were executed.

So far the good outweighs the bad.So far ...

He's accused of acts that could constitute high treason. How should he be treated, exactly? And, from what I understand, he's basically been held in solitary confinement. He's not been tortured, abused, etc. He's just been held and not allowed to talk to anyone.

I am surprised that months later he's yet to be formally charged, and I think that raises some legal and constitutional issues which concern me but, in terms of his "treatment", what is it you are expecting for him?

As for the good and the bad scale, I agree that so far the good outweighs the bad. But, as you say, so far...

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost