Contents

Discuss possible ways how to deal with the distribution in The Netherlands.

{Marcel de Jong 19/04} I received an idea from User:Jan de Haan. We could try to find a distributor/importer, and approach that person with the question of doing the importing for us. Sadly I don't know anyone in that business, so I have no idea how to go about contacting someone like that.

{Sander Hoentjen 19/04} I might be able to help out here, next Tuesday I will talk with my ex-employer and ask if he has any ideas. (Their business is helping US companies establish market in Europe)

{Marcel de Jong 19/04}Please do. And keep us informed. Would be great if we can get this off the ground.

{Jan de Haan 19/04}Agree. For the record: the reason we are looking for a professional business to organize this for us is the inability of any person to front the money for 10 Freerunners, an amount of money ($6000,-) that almost everybody gives the hickups. So we're looking for a business that can buy us the 10 phones with the discount with the guaranteed sale of them. I've done business with sallandautomatisering (Am _not_ affiliated with them in any way) and they showed definite interest. So if Sander's way does not work, I suggest we contact them.

{Marcel de Jong 20/04} Jan, the Freerunner is cheaper than that. In group sale we're probably looking at a figure of 'just' $3690 (ex shipping, and probably other costs.) And otherwise it's $399 per sold phone (again excluding shipping costs and probably also import fees)
BTW it would be good if the people interested in getting a Neo in this group sale also add contact information, so that people can be notified, if you haven't done so already. Out of 11, we're only able to contact 8, at the moment.

{Marcel de Jong 20/04} I have notified 9 people on the Dutch list about this page. The other two I have no way of contacting at the moment. Let's hope they read the community mailing list. :)

{Yorick 20/04} I'm from Belgium, would shipping be possible to Belgium? I'm very interested. thanks.

{Marcel de Jong 20/04} Yorick at this point, I'm not sure. I'm not an importer myself, just someone who is eager to get his grubby hands on a Neo. :) BTW, you could start a similar discussion on it for Belgians right here as well. Just add it to the page here. Just make a separate section on this page. :)

{André Disselhorst 20/04} I was thinking that, in the case finding someone willing to do the importing in the Netherlands would fail, we maybe could join such an initiative abroad.
@Jan de Haan: I think asking sallandautomatisering will do no harm.

{Eric Smith 21/04} I can help oragnise the importing. This is something I do in my business but
have very little time available. So we need to be superefficient with information and of course financial arrangements. Feel free to mail me eric _at_ fruitcom.com.

{Marcel de Jong 22/04} Thanks Jan. I hope this will work, I'm just afraid, we're going to need more people to make it viable for those stores to import it. But I see that they use a .eu domain, so if they also sell stuff over the border, I don't think it to be too hard to drum up some support from the other European groups. That way we can make a bigger market to offset those import costs for the retailer.
BTW, I replaced your email address in that email, with something more spam-proof. ;)

{Sander Hoentjen 22/04} I had no luck with my ex-employer unfortunately. A comment about the Salland Automatisering letter though: You are talking about a E369,-, is that the price in Euro you are thinking about? ATM 369.00 USD = 231.037 EUR, shipping and taxes will be applied, anybody knows what the price will be for us taken that into account? How much money can a company make out of it, in order for us to still buy? I don't think a company will do it for free, but maybe they will do it for just the publicity, that can be good for them of course.

{Marcel de Jong 22/04} If I had to ballpark it, I'd say aim at around 350, anything below it would be great. I'm not sure what the shipping costs/import costs would come at. I think, looking at other consumer electronic prices in the US and Europe, it's a safe bet (lots of appliances have about the same number behind the currency symbol, whether it is $ or euro)
And the $369 and $399 are still estimates, at least if I read Steve's mail correctly.

{Arjan Veenstra 20/04} Personally I wouldn't mind doing this through a private person, as long as things are properly documented (e.g. there is proof when things go wrong). That will mean having to pay in advance, but I doubt anyone of us would bother to run off with $4000. A 5 lines 'contract' is probably enough to make sure you get your money back when the Freerunner don't show up. But then, i'll just go along with the rest of you.

{Sander Hoentjen 23/04} Through a private person is also fine by me, the only problem I see is getting a proper invoice. This might come in handy when there is a problem with the phone, for which you have insurance, like I do.

{Marcel de Jong 23/04} Indeed, I'd like to get an invoice as well. If Openmoko would add a separate invoice for each of the ten phones in the box, so that everyone can use that for their warranty/administration. I don't see many problems with going through a private person. We could even make it a meet at a central location, ;) to hand out the phones, to make sure that everyone gets his/her phone.

{Eric Smith 23/04} I like the idea to have Openmoko invoice each of the group separately, if that does not
kill their bulk buy offer. I am happy to go along with the proposal and send advances to someone in the group to consolidate the purchase. I work in importing so any help you need, please ask.

{Christ van Willegen 24/04} Going through one person is fine with me. I'll happily pre-pay and get my phone handed out
on Utrecht CS :-)

{Jan de Haan 23/04} Update: I'm still talking with sallandautomatisering, but cannot update untill a conclusion has been reached. Sorry. But hey, at least they are talking ;-) You'll have to trust me on that. If people don't, I can talk to one other person on this list in confidence, but you got to have a little patience for the moment. As another opportunity: can somebody take a look at [1] and give an opinion? Two possibilities arise from this: we take our business there as a group or ask a Dutch reseller to import from there.

{André Disselhorst 23/04} Thank you for your work on Sallandautomatisering. I followed your pointer to Trisoft and was reminded of another shop: [2] I don't know if they continue with importing Openmoko. I will keep an eye on them.

{Marcel de Jong 23/04} And there is Handheld-linux.com, who seem eager to offer the Neo Freerunner as well. Just no Dutch stores (yet) :) Jan, I trust you. Keep up the good work.

{Eric Smith 25/04} I Why do we not import the consignment ourselves? What are the disadvantages. I could organise and/or provide the information to someone else in the group. What is the reason that we want to put our business through a dealer?

{Marcel de Jong 25/04} I think the biggest hurdle would be the invoice, warranty-wise. But I don't mind if one of us imports it, and then distributes it. Through a meet-up of some sorts would be great. A great way to get a community feel. :)
You say you have experience with importing goods, Eric. Do you know what sorts of extra costs we have to keep in mind? Sales tax? Import costs? VAT?
Another could-be problem is with the amount of phones currently on the 'group sales list'. Currently we are at 16. Group sales are in increments of 10. So the importer could be stuck with 4 unsold phones (which of course could get sold on ebay, but it's an upfront investment in that case, with some insecurity for the importer), or 6 could get stuck with a higher expense (because they don't benefit from the group sale discount).

{Michel van Horssen 25/04} Going through a reseller you should take in mind if that party is willing to do it without taking a (large) profit. One person (doesn't have to be a business) can contact OM and ask them if the order is bigger then 10 (but not an increment of 10) the discount would still be valid per Freerunner. Or maybe one of the german resellers would give the same discount if an order above 10 pieces at once was given and send to one central person. You'd pay german VAT but that doesn't matter you would have to pay dutch VAT if you import it directly from OM. Just my 2 cents. A reseller in Holland has to ask for VAT either way as well so...

{Marcel de Jong 25/04} A similar question was asked on the mailing list, and Steve from openmoko came back and told us, that "there are only two products. Buy 1 or buy 10. {...} So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1."
It could be that that's changed. But I kinda doubt that. Well, ok, yes, VAT is needed. But I was kinda looking for a list of extra costs to keep in mind, when importing goods on this scale. Does customs take a fee, or something.

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Contents

Discuss possible ways how to deal with the distribution in The Netherlands.

{Marcel de Jong 19/04} I received an idea from User:Jan de Haan. We could try to find a distributor/importer, and approach that person with the question of doing the importing for us. Sadly I don't know anyone in that business, so I have no idea how to go about contacting someone like that.

{Sander Hoentjen 19/04} I might be able to help out here, next Tuesday I will talk with my ex-employer and ask if he has any ideas. (Their business is helping US companies establish market in Europe)

{Marcel de Jong 19/04}Please do. And keep us informed. Would be great if we can get this off the ground.

{Jan de Haan 19/04}Agree. For the record: the reason we are looking for a professional business to organize this for us is the inability of any person to front the money for 10 Freerunners, an amount of money ($6000,-) that almost everybody gives the hickups. So we're looking for a business that can buy us the 10 phones with the discount with the guaranteed sale of them. I've done business with sallandautomatisering (Am _not_ affiliated with them in any way) and they showed definite interest. So if Sander's way does not work, I suggest we contact them.

{Marcel de Jong 20/04} Jan, the Freerunner is cheaper than that. In group sale we're probably looking at a figure of 'just' $3690 (ex shipping, and probably other costs.) And otherwise it's $399 per sold phone (again excluding shipping costs and probably also import fees)
BTW it would be good if the people interested in getting a Neo in this group sale also add contact information, so that people can be notified, if you haven't done so already. Out of 11, we're only able to contact 8, at the moment.

{Marcel de Jong 20/04} I have notified 9 people on the Dutch list about this page. The other two I have no way of contacting at the moment. Let's hope they read the community mailing list. :)

{Yorick 20/04} I'm from Belgium, would shipping be possible to Belgium? I'm very interested. thanks.

{Marcel de Jong 20/04} Yorick at this point, I'm not sure. I'm not an importer myself, just someone who is eager to get his grubby hands on a Neo. :) BTW, you could start a similar discussion on it for Belgians right here as well. Just add it to the page here. Just make a separate section on this page. :)

{André Disselhorst 20/04} I was thinking that, in the case finding someone willing to do the importing in the Netherlands would fail, we maybe could join such an initiative abroad.
@Jan de Haan: I think asking sallandautomatisering will do no harm.

{Eric Smith 21/04} I can help oragnise the importing. This is something I do in my business but
have very little time available. So we need to be superefficient with information and of course financial arrangements. Feel free to mail me eric _at_ fruitcom.com.

{Marcel de Jong 22/04} Thanks Jan. I hope this will work, I'm just afraid, we're going to need more people to make it viable for those stores to import it. But I see that they use a .eu domain, so if they also sell stuff over the border, I don't think it to be too hard to drum up some support from the other European groups. That way we can make a bigger market to offset those import costs for the retailer.
BTW, I replaced your email address in that email, with something more spam-proof. ;)

{Sander Hoentjen 22/04} I had no luck with my ex-employer unfortunately. A comment about the Salland Automatisering letter though: You are talking about a E369,-, is that the price in Euro you are thinking about? ATM 369.00 USD = 231.037 EUR, shipping and taxes will be applied, anybody knows what the price will be for us taken that into account? How much money can a company make out of it, in order for us to still buy? I don't think a company will do it for free, but maybe they will do it for just the publicity, that can be good for them of course.

{Marcel de Jong 22/04} If I had to ballpark it, I'd say aim at around 350, anything below it would be great. I'm not sure what the shipping costs/import costs would come at. I think, looking at other consumer electronic prices in the US and Europe, it's a safe bet (lots of appliances have about the same number behind the currency symbol, whether it is $ or euro)
And the $369 and $399 are still estimates, at least if I read Steve's mail correctly.

{Arjan Veenstra 20/04} Personally I wouldn't mind doing this through a private person, as long as things are properly documented (e.g. there is proof when things go wrong). That will mean having to pay in advance, but I doubt anyone of us would bother to run off with $4000. A 5 lines 'contract' is probably enough to make sure you get your money back when the Freerunner don't show up. But then, i'll just go along with the rest of you.

{Sander Hoentjen 23/04} Through a private person is also fine by me, the only problem I see is getting a proper invoice. This might come in handy when there is a problem with the phone, for which you have insurance, like I do.

{Marcel de Jong 23/04} Indeed, I'd like to get an invoice as well. If Openmoko would add a separate invoice for each of the ten phones in the box, so that everyone can use that for their warranty/administration. I don't see many problems with going through a private person. We could even make it a meet at a central location, ;) to hand out the phones, to make sure that everyone gets his/her phone.

{Eric Smith 23/04} I like the idea to have Openmoko invoice each of the group separately, if that does not
kill their bulk buy offer. I am happy to go along with the proposal and send advances to someone in the group to consolidate the purchase. I work in importing so any help you need, please ask.

{Christ van Willegen 24/04} Going through one person is fine with me. I'll happily pre-pay and get my phone handed out
on Utrecht CS :-)

{Jan de Haan 23/04} Update: I'm still talking with sallandautomatisering, but cannot update untill a conclusion has been reached. Sorry. But hey, at least they are talking ;-) You'll have to trust me on that. If people don't, I can talk to one other person on this list in confidence, but you got to have a little patience for the moment. As another opportunity: can somebody take a look at [1] and give an opinion? Two possibilities arise from this: we take our business there as a group or ask a Dutch reseller to import from there.

{André Disselhorst 23/04} Thank you for your work on Sallandautomatisering. I followed your pointer to Trisoft and was reminded of another shop: [2] I don't know if they continue with importing Openmoko. I will keep an eye on them.

{Marcel de Jong 23/04} And there is Handheld-linux.com, who seem eager to offer the Neo Freerunner as well. Just no Dutch stores (yet) :) Jan, I trust you. Keep up the good work.

{Eric Smith 25/04} I Why do we not import the consignment ourselves? What are the disadvantages. I could organise and/or provide the information to someone else in the group. What is the reason that we want to put our business through a dealer?

{Marcel de Jong 25/04} I think the biggest hurdle would be the invoice, warranty-wise. But I don't mind if one of us imports it, and then distributes it. Through a meet-up of some sorts would be great. A great way to get a community feel. :)
You say you have experience with importing goods, Eric. Do you know what sorts of extra costs we have to keep in mind? Sales tax? Import costs? VAT?
Another could-be problem is with the amount of phones currently on the 'group sales list'. Currently we are at 16. Group sales are in increments of 10. So the importer could be stuck with 4 unsold phones (which of course could get sold on ebay, but it's an upfront investment in that case, with some insecurity for the importer), or 6 could get stuck with a higher expense (because they don't benefit from the group sale discount).

{Michel van Horssen 25/04} Going through a reseller you should take in mind if that party is willing to do it without taking a (large) profit. One person (doesn't have to be a business) can contact OM and ask them if the order is bigger then 10 (but not an increment of 10) the discount would still be valid per Freerunner. Or maybe one of the german resellers would give the same discount if an order above 10 pieces at once was given and send to one central person. You'd pay german VAT but that doesn't matter you would have to pay dutch VAT if you import it directly from OM. Just my 2 cents. A reseller in Holland has to ask for VAT either way as well so...

{Marcel de Jong 25/04} A similar question was asked on the mailing list, and Steve from openmoko came back and told us, that "there are only two products. Buy 1 or buy 10. {...} So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1."
It could be that that's changed. But I kinda doubt that. Well, ok, yes, VAT is needed. But I was kinda looking for a list of extra costs to keep in mind, when importing goods on this scale. Does customs take a fee, or something.