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I was talking with one of my friends who is 1st dan in karate, and we were going through the usual friendly banter what if I did this then I'd do this etc. touching on the fact that we both believe our respective art to be better than the other's

However, I was unable to find a response when he said that when thrown, the response of a karate practicioner is to 'snake kick'. I wonder what this is and how to counter it.

If you could have thrown you friend you could have and should have in a self defence situation broken a joint. Use tai-subaki itself to neutralize the attack and continue the counter offence if neccessary. In training this is a throw, in selfdefence incapacitation.

Actually, there are styles of ukemi which kick when taking front or back falls. Its not that hard to do, and I have actually hit shite occationally (by accident). A well placed kick with the heel to the head while taking ukemi can do wonders.

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)

Actually, there are styles of ukemi which kick when taking front or back falls. Its not that hard to do, and I have actually hit shite occationally (by accident). A well placed kick with the heel to the head while taking ukemi can do wonders.

Yes, I've done as much by accident.

But to assume someone unskilled could do it with deliberation is ridiculous.

Besides which - he kicks you in the head, you break 17 of his bones throwing him. Fair trade ;-)

Well, you're definately right about someone unskilled being unlikely to do it...but **I** would hopefully never make the mistake of **assuming** someone is unskilled...

And if someone is skilled enough to place the kick with intent, they are probably skilled enough to take the fall unharmed. I've been tossed pretty good...and still had the composure to place the kick...intentionally missing.

Ron (walking away...the fairest trade of all) Tisdale

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)

I don't know what a snake kick is, but there have been many times I could have kicked NAGE and come out the better of the two of us. Breaking UKE is not always a given. The capacity for KAESHI at all implies the capacity for clocking NAGE, too.

Times and places I've been able to kick NAGE STRONGLY:

* In the back of NAGE's head with my heel on IKKYO;

* On the side of his head with my instep on any technique where NAGE (more often than you'd think) bends over as I fall onto my back before him/her;

* YOKOMEN (anywhere from the lower carotid to the upper parietal) with instep (tough UKEMI, but I've done it and survived)on KOTE GAESHI.

* Into hip while holding NAGE's ankle to knock them down when they come around to roll over UKE on KOTE GAESHI.

* On the carotid on the throw down for IRIMI NAGE. Instead of walking gullibly back into NAGE's embrace the way most of us do, fold onto the mat, come around the other way and take hold of NAGE's arm, and kick up while pulling NAGE into it (then sink a triangle choke if you're not an aikido purist...)

Bob Strahinjevich: Yes, I've done as much by accident. But to assume someone unskilled could do it with deliberation is ridiculous.

The original post refered to "one of my friends who is 1st dan in karate", hardly someone "unskilled."

Bob Strahinjevich: Besides which - he kicks you in the head, you break 17 of his bones throwing him.

If anyone can throw any kind of kick or strike at Nage while they're being thrown, then Nage isn't throwing, or Nage hasn't been throwing long. In either case, please tell me that showing Nage those openings forces an instant correction in technique so it can't happen again. I would be extremely upset if my techniques had the potential for that kind of breach and no one pointed it out.