The Griffith Sisters

ORAL HISTORY OF THE GRIFFITH SISTERS
(EVELYN BAKER, GLORIS BRUCE, AND CHARLENE GOINS)
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
November 22, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is November 22, 2013, and I am south of the river, south of Kingston, at the home of Gloris and Bobby Bruce. And, Gloris is on the left and her two sisters are with us today and Evelyn Baker is in the center and Charlene Goins is on the right. Ladies, thank y'all for taking time to talk with us.
MRS. BRUCE: Thank you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now don't be shy, speak up, one of you. Let's start at the very beginning. Tell me where y'all were born and raised and something about your family.
MRS. BRUCE: Well, I think all three of us were born in Robbins, Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: Where is that?
MRS. BRUCE: Up in Scott County and it was about 13 miles up a dirt road that was called Brimstone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And that explains it, I think. (laughter) We moved from there in 1943.
MRS. GOINS: '43 we moved out.
MRS. BRUCE: On September the 10th of 1943, we moved from there.
MRS. GOINS: That was your birthday, that's why you... Moved to Eagleton Village.
MRS. BRUCE: No, not '43, '42.
MRS. GOINS: '42.
MRS. BRUCE: In 1942, we moved from Brimstone to Eagleton Village in Maryville and we lived there for what, six months or so and then in April of 1944, we moved to Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, was it just you three sisters? Did you have any brothers?
MRS. BAKER: No brothers.
MRS. BRUCE: Just the three of us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just the three of you.
MRS. BRUCE: Our father started... He started working at Oak Ridge in 1943, September of 1943, and he worked there until he got us with him in Oak Ridge in April of 1944.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, so... So he was working -- he was driving from Maryville...
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: ... to Oak Ridge every day, or traveling from Maryville to Oak Ridge every day to work.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did he do there? Do you know?
MRS. BRUCE: He was a mechanic.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, was he? (coughs) 'Scuse me. Where did he work?
MRS. BRUCE: X-10.
MR. MCDANIEL: He worked at X-10, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, I think, at the time, what was...? Clinton Engineering?
MR. MCDANIEL: Clinton Engineer Works was the whole thing, but X-10 was that site. So. Now, how old were each of you when you moved from Maryville to Oak Ridge?
MRS. BRUCE: I was five.
MRS. BAKER: Seven.
MRS. GOINS: Nine.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, two years apart?
MRS. BAKER: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you lived in Oak Ridge, you grew up in Oak Ridge, didn't you?
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, your mother, she was a homemaker is that correct or did she work?
MRS. BAKER: She worked at the plants for a while, didn't she?
MRS. BRUCE: At K-25.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. BRUCE: Off and on, at times. She didn't work a long time, did she?
MRS. GOINS: No, no, we had to have babysitters. We were too young then to stay by ourselves.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And so, she would work when she could and she worked at the plant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now where did you live when you moved to Oak Ridge? What house did you move to?
MRS. BRUCE: The first one was on 150 Arrowood Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Out in East Oak Ridge.
MRS. GOINS: A little two-bedroom flattop.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. GOINS: It was a flattop, had muddy roads, boardwalks.
MRS. BRUCE: Coal bins. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: And how long did you live on Arrowood Road?
MRS. BRUCE: Well, we moved from that house, we moved to one across the street to a... One that had some shade and trees around it and everything and that was at 147 West Arrowood Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And then we moved to ...?
MRS. BAKER: Alger...
MRS. GOINS: 175 Alger Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And then from there, we moved to 116 Portland Lane...
MRS. BAKER: Portland Lane...
MRS. BRUCE: Which is no longer... You know, that is where Food City and that shopping mall is there now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Man... (coughs) 'Scuse me.
MRS. BRUCE: Manhattan Project... not Manhattan Project...
MR. MCDANIEL: Manhattan Place? (coughs) 'Scuse me. Oh, that's where that was? Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: Uh-huh. And then from there we moved to 107 Decatur Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And that is when, then, let's see, Charlie, you got married in...?
MRS. GOINS: '53, we lived on Portland Lane.
MRS. BRUCE: And Evelyn got married in 5-...?
MRS. BAKER: Come on, sis!
MRS. BRUCE: '55...?
MRS. BAKER: '56.
MRS. BRUCE: And that's when we lived on Decatur.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And I got married when we lived in Decatur and I got married in '57.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. So, what was it like growing up in Oak Ridge? I mean, you were there from ... I mean, you were all old enough to remember when you first went to Oak Ridge, at least a little bit, I imagine. And then, you were there through the '40s and the '50s as, you know, as young people. You were there, you know, when they opened the gates, you know, you witnessed all the change.
ALL THREE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: So tell me, just talk about a little bit about what it was like living in Oak Ridge in the '40s and '50s.
MRS. GOINS: I just remember in Arrowood, going to school in the morning -- we got a story about that. But anyway, going to school in the morning and then coming home and there would be a complete new street of flattops. They'd bring the flattops in on trucks. The two-bedroom flattops were in two sections, but the bigger flattops were in three sections, and they would put 'em up and put furniture in and build a whole street in a day's time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: And muddy roads and boardwalks they'd put up so we could walk on the boardwalks rather than walk through the mud.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now where did you go to...? Did you go to...?
MRS. GOINS: Elm Grove.
MRS. BAKER: Elm Grove.
MR. MCDANIEL: Elm Grove.
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: She went the first day, on the bus. She had to get on the bus and go. I didn't go. And then the second day, I went because we assumed that she knew how to get home. (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: But, yeah, Mother and Dad did not take us to register us. That was up to us. We had to register ourselves when we'd go into the school, we'd register ourselves and then they'd put us in school. Well, the second day... The first day, I made it home just fine, on the bus. We walked down, a couple of houses down on West Arrowood.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And the second day they decided, since I made it so good, that they would let Evelyn go with me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: She was in the second grade and I was in the third grade.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: Well, the girl that I was depending on getting off the bus, she was not on the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: So I missed that bus stop. We went all up, all up through Alabama, Arkansas and got off the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh.
MRS. GOINS: We were lost. Two kids and Mother and Dad did not have a telephone, no car to get around and this was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And Evelyn and I started walking. And we just know that we would see the house and we would know it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Eventually.
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Eventually.
MRS. BAKER: Two hours later...
MRS. GOINS: Two hours later... Now, two girls, we'd ask people...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: ... to help us find our way home. Well, two high school girls, we don't know the names or anything, we didn't bother finding out, they decided they'd walk with us and try to find it. So they walked with us. And we came in to the opposite end of West Arrowood from which we had gone to Elm Grove.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: One was carrying Evelyn and I was walking. And Mother met us about halfway in the street. Oh! I can remember the relief on her face. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet.
MRS. GOINS: And we were walking in the middle of the street looking for her and here they were coming up the street.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. GOINS: And we could see 'em half a street away.
MRS. BAKER: Mmm-hmm. It was 5 o'clock, just before Dad got home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really? My goodness.
MRS. GOINS: That was a scary time.
MR. MCDANIEL: So really... So you, I mean, you didn't know it well enough to be able to really find your...
ALL: No...
MRS. GOINS: They didn't give us a little paper with our address on it. They didn't, you know... We had to have that at school. I guess we must have left that at school or what not, because I don't remember ever having an address saying that's where we lived.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you knew what it looked like.
MRS. GOINS: But we knew what it looked like.
MRS. BAKER: It was hard to do, being as everything looked alike.
MRS. GOINS: It was all flattops, it was all two-bedrooms or three-bedroom flattops on West Arrowood, if you're familiar with that area.
MR. MCDANIEL: I am.
MRS. GOINS: Ok. But we lived there for a long time and it was OK. But now, if you go to the Museum and look at that two-bedroom flattop they have, it's hard to remember that we actually lived in that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: And then we had a babysitter that lived with us part of the time and... I don't see how we made it. Not in this day and time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: It was totally different and everything back then because, see, I ... When they went to school for the first couple of months, I wasn't old enough and they didn't have a kindergarten then so I didn't start school until that following September. And I remember sitting on that hill there overlooking the Turnpike, which was nothing but mud and gravel.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And they were... There was these big transport or these big trucks coming down the road bringing workers in, Army colored... and the back of it was covered and everything like that, bringing those in. And I tried to count the cars and everything, and, of course, just not even being in first grade, I was trying to learn how to count and I'd try counting vehicles coming in. It was just one right after the other.
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Cause West Arrowood's just right there next to the Turnpike so you were able to see all the comings and goings of the Turnpike.
MRS. BRUCE: From the Clinton end.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah, sure, from that end. So... What else was it like? I mean, what else are some things that you remember.
MRS. BRUCE: I can remember the day that the war ended, Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Can you really?
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: Because my mother's brother, our Uncle Fred, was in the Army and he got in without us knowing, in the gates without us knowing about it and everything and, 'bout the time they were announcing that the war was over, we saw him walking down the road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. BRUCE: He found us there in Oak Ridge and everything. And I can remember all the sirens and everything going off at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: For a child, though, to hear that the war's over then see your uncle walking down the road, that made perfect sense, didn't it? (laughter)
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, the war's over. He's home. You know, so. Well that was, yeah, so, that was probably one of the first memories -- real memories -- that you have, isn't it?
MRS. BRUCE: Well, I can remember back when they had the blackouts and everything, in the city and everything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that. I've not heard much about those.
MRS. BRUCE: The blackouts?
MRS. BAKER: You had to turn out all the lights.
MRS. BRUCE: And only have a candle and if you had...
MRS. GOINS: Black curtains on the windows. We had to have black curtains on the windows.
MRS. BRUCE: And the sirens would go off and you would -- I felt like we had to hide or something like that and everything. And it was very scary because we didn't know what was going on but evidently it was just drills.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: But I remember several of those and everything, and the sirens going off and it was dark outside and it was so eerie and everything like this.
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet. I bet.
MRS. BRUCE: But as far as knowing that we were in a secret city or what, I knew nothing...
MRS. GOINS: Well we lived in gates... When we had company, the uncles or aunts or anybody, come to the gate, they would have to call you or get in touch with you and you had to know they were coming and you would meet 'em at the gate with a pass.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: That's the only way they could come in.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And we were 12 years old, you could get a badge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MRS. BAKER: I've still got mine.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you?
MRS. GOINS: I still have mine, too. And I was…
MRS. BRUCE: They opened the gates just right before I turned 12 so I didn't get one. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. Now, did you all ... Did you all go to the opening of the gates festivities?
ALL: Oh, yes, yes...
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that day, 'cause it was down on your end of town.
MRS. GOINS: And we all had been sick with the flu. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, had you?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was March of '49, as I recall.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, I couldn't remember what month it was, but I remember that we did have on coats and we were there on the Turnpike and it was around where First Baptist Church is now, isn't it?
MRS. GOINS: Mmm-hmm.
MR. MCDANIEL: But it was Elza Gate is where they had the actual...
MRS. BAKER: Yeah. It was out there.
MR. MCDANIEL: ... the actual. It was out at Elza Gate is where.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, no, no, this is the parade that I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, you remember the parade.
MRS. BRUCE: But we didn't... I don't remember the other ceremonies. I don't guess we went to them, did we?
MRS. GOINS: I don't think so, because they were very careful. We had just gotten over the flu. We even had our coats on and they wouldn't let us get out and stand outside, we had to look at it from the car.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Oh, I see. So you probably went down downtown and watched the parades.
MRS. BAKER: Parades.
MRS. GOINS: Sunset Carson was there and I remember some of the ...
MRS. BRUCE: Rod Stewart?
MRS. GOINS: Rod Stewart, Alben Barkley...
MRS. BRUCE: Mae West.
MRS. GOINS: Mae West.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, Mae West wasn't there. And his name Rod... It wasn't Rod Stewart, it was Rod... Rod Cameron.
ALL: Cameron...
MR. MCDANIEL: Rod Cameron. But... "The Body"...
MRS. GOINS: Bodybuilder, Marie McDonald?
MR. MCDANIEL: Marie "The Body" McDonald ...
MRS. BRUCE: McDonald... Ok...
MR. MCDANIEL: ...was there and Alben Barkley was the vice president and he was there. And also, do you remember the fellow who's the host of Queen for a Day.
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes... I'm trying to think of his name...
MR. MCDANIEL: Jack... Jack... somebody.
MRS. GOINS: Jack Daily?
MRS. BAKER: No, no..
MR. MCDANIEL: I don't remember, but he was the host of...
MRS. BAKER: Queen for a Day.
MRS. BRUCE: I remember that program, but ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you remember the parade? You remember going to the parade?
MRS. BRUCE: I do remember the parade, in fact, I've still got a lot of the pictures from the parade.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: And I have donated some of those to the museum, I think, haven't I? 'Cause some of those books I saw at the Secret City this past summer, some of the pictures I had donated were in that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: Mmm-hmm...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, well good.
MRS. BRUCE: So I've still got a lot of stuff from the early days of Mom and Dad there in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. What was it like to be teenagers in Oak Ridge?
MRS. GOINS: Mother and Dad were very strict. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that's what I was about to say, a father with three daughters, you know.
MRS. BRUCE: Very, very strict.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BAKER: Let's see...
MRS. BRUCE: We weren't allowed to join any of those high school sorority clubs.
MRS. GOINS: No. The Wildcat Den. We'd never been in the Wildcat Den.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: That was a hangout for the teenagers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. They wouldn't let you in the Wildcat Den, huh? They wouldn't let you go?
MRS. GOINS: No, they wouldn't let us go.
MRS. BRUCE: They kept very close...
MRS. GOINS: No, we weren't allowed to go there. We did go skating at the skating ring down at Jefferson. We did that. We'd go to movies a lot. Center Theater and Ridge Theater.
MRS. BRUCE: But we weren't allowed to go to bowling alleys because those were rough places to go.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Yes. I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: So he.. So they were strict...
MRS. BRUCE: Very much so.
MR. MCDANIEL: How old were you when you were allowed to date?
MRS. GOINS: 16?
MRS. BAKER: About 16 I would say.
MR. MCDANIEL: With them knowing about it, that's the question. (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Ninth grade.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ninth grade.
MRS. GOINS: But you didn't car date to start with.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: It was all... bus.
MRS. BAKER: Get on the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And then go to the theatre and the guy would bring you back home on the bus and then say good night, then he'd get the bus and go back home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Uh-oh! I may be saying too much...(laughter)
MRS. BRUCE: I think I was, what? 14?
MRS. GOINS: No, I was 16.
MRS. BAKER: 16...
MRS. BRUCE: I was either 13 or 14 when I got to have my first date, OK.
MRS. BAKER: Yeah, but you were younger. They were lax on you.
MRS. BRUCE: They were.
MRS. GOINS: We were trial and error, weren't we?
MR. MCDANIEL: They were worn out by the time you came along. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: They were very strict on Charlie.
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: But we walked a lot of places and everything when we were... And I know that I started babysitting in Oak Ridge when I was 12 years old and, you know, my mom and dad and the people I was babysitting for, if it was OK with everybody, I would walk home by myself at 12, 1 o'clock at night.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: No problem, and everything, because we lived there on Portland Lane when I was babysitting and there was a lot of those apartments there that are still there now, that I would babysit in and people would come home and let me go home and I would walk home by myself and no...
MRS. GOINS: It was in the general neighborhood, close by.
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, yeah, it wasn't miles or cross-town or anything but I would walk home and no problem, nothing bothered me. It was safe.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, it was a different place then.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, it definitely was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Talk about riding the buses. I mean, 'cause they had quite the bus system in Oak Ridge when you were growing up.
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes, they did, didn't they?
MRS. GOINS: We could transfer the bus and go wherever you wanted to do. And we felt... Now, we felt safe in Oak Ridge because of the gates.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: They were there and we knew that soldiers were guarding and I was never scared. We were never really scared. We would go anyplace in Oak Ridge we wanted to.
MRS. BRUCE: But then, after the gates opened and everything ...
MRS. GOINS: It was a little different...
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, they had different buses then, too, I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you had to pay for the bus at some point, didn't you? They used to be free.
MRS. BRUCE: Then you had tokens.
MRS. GOINS: Tokens, what? Six cents a token or something like that. I remember the first time.
MRS. BRUCE: Even the, some of the workers down at the plants and everything, rode the buses to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: Because I can remember down at the bottom of Decatur Road is where I caught the bus going to, I guess, high school. And the, someone that lived up there off of Decatur Road and what was that other street up through there and everything? He was some...very intelligent person walked down to the bus stop and would get on the bus and everything. And I was so amazed that sometimes he forgot to put his token in. And I remember finding out that the bus drivers were told that sometimes these guys were -- had their mind on something else and to not disturb them and not to stop 'em and make 'em put their token in. And I can remember him getting on the bus and riding it. It didn't go just to the high school, it went all over Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BAKER: But most of the time, you had to transfer at Townsite.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you? You had to go to the main terminal down there?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: And transfer.
MRS. BAKER: Transfer.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And we always rode to school to junior high, the bus to junior high school. We always, we never ... Mother and Dad would never think about taking us to school. Everybody rode the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was ...? Where was that? Where was the junior high?
MRS. BAKER: It was on Robertsville.
MRS. GOINS: Robertsville and Illinois.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you went to Robertsville?
MRS. BRUCE: But it was...
MR. MCDANIEL: That was the only junior high they had back then?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, but it was called...
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Jefferson.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was called Jefferson, right. I understand.
MRS. GOINS: And we lived up in East Town, up there. We lived up there so we had to ride the school bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, you had to ride the school bus. That was a little far.
MRS. GOINS: Mmm-hmm... And I remember the first day of... First day of school, I was in ninth grade and Mother and Dad called the school to get us out of school. Evelyn was in eighth grade.
MRS. BAKER: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And they called the school to get us out of school 'cause our grandfather had died.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And Evelyn and I walked over and caught the bus and went home that day and they -- they didn't pick us up or anything. We went home and then we went to the funeral, our grandfather's funeral.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. So, you went to Jefferson which is now where Robertsville is.
ALL: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then, when you went to high school, it was on, it was right across from Jackson Square, there. Right?
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: You went there.
MRS. GOINS: Yes, I went there.
MRS. BAKER: I never went there. I went to the new one.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right? When did...? What year...?
MRS. BAKER: Yes, when I went to high school ...
MRS. BRUCE: Wait a minute, you would have had to have...
MRS. BAKER: I didn't go up there.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, maybe you didn't. Because I remember I went up there at Jackson Square when I was in the eighth grade. That was the only year that I was there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because they changed... When the high school moved, that became the Jefferson Junior High, didn't it?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: See, I wasn't there.
MRS. BRUCE: You were older. Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: See that school became... that became the second junior high when the new high school opened, the old high school became the second junior high school.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: As I recall, I mean, I could be mistaken but I think that's what happened.
MRS. GOINS: I went into the new high school for the last year.
MR. MCDANIEL: For the last year.
MRS. GOINS: Junior in ... so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, what do you remember about school? Tell me some stories about junior high and high school.
MRS. BAKER: School?
MR. MCDANIEL: Were y'all allowed to be involved in, like, you know, activities at school, you know, band or chorus or sports or anything like that?
MRS. GOINS: No, we didn't stay after school for that. That was something extra.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: And we always came home. 'Cause Mother was working or Dad was working and we always came home. We didn't participate that much in after school activities.
MRS. BRUCE: No, nothing like that at all. You know, we must have led a very boring life. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, seems like it was fairly sheltered, wasn't it?
MRS. BAKER & MRS. BRUCE: Yes, it was. Yes.
MRS. GOINS: Oh, the Griffith girls were... They really, really ... We were sheltered and everyone that knew us, knew...
MR. MCDANIEL: Knew that?
MRS. BAKER: Yeah.
MRS. GOINS: Knew that we were the protected ones.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, sure, sure... But what about your classes and some of your teachers.
MRS. GOINS: Well, in my ninth grade I remember I had Mr. Clinton.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And he was really good. That was one of the first men teachers I'd ever had.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: He was... He was good. It was for social studies and home room. It was just a quiet... you got along, we got along with everybody. And sometimes, well, you were on the edge of the big popular group, but you were not in with the bad group, or... It was a little bit different. We weren't in the popular, but we were right there on the edge of it. That was about the way I felt.
MRS. BAKER: Ok. Who was the science teacher? I know you had him.
MRS. BRUCE: Mr. Plumley.
MRS. BAKER: Mr. Plumley. (laughter) Yes. If you went in his class, you had…
MRS. BRUCE: Margaret Barnes was the counselor. Ok. Remember her?
MRS. BAKER: No, not really.
MR. MCDANIEL: Maybe you had to see her more than the others. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: And that algebra teacher, Mr. Ripley.
MRS. BRUCE: He, oh, yes...
MRS. GOINS: He went on to become the principal of the high school.
MRS. BRUCE: And then after that, he went on up to become Superintend of Schools in Oak Ridge.
MRS. GOINS: Well, I wasn't around for that, then.
MRS. BRUCE: I went to see him when he was Superintendent at the high school, because I had two boys in Oak Ridge High School.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And I didn't like the way Oak Ridge Schools were being run at that time and I let it be known. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: Did it do much good?
MRS. BRUCE: No. (laughter) But I went to see Mr. Ripley at that time about that. But, now, our parents didn't...
MRS. BAKER: They didn't go to school
MRS. BRUCE: for anything and, like... We had... We weren't badgered to get your homework done, all this and that. We knew we had to get it done and we didn't get any help from them, we had to do our homework and be responsible for ourselves.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: Mother and Dad only had finished the eighth grade...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: ... in a one-room schoolhouse that Evelyn and I actually attended for a couple... For a year before we moved from Brimstone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. GOINS: The same schoolhouse that our Mother and Dad had attended. And they had gone to school together.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. GOINS: Mmm-hmm. I think... but, no, it was different, it was a different lifestyle. We were taught to be independent and I don't ever remember them going to school or anything. And our -- if we were absent, we wrote our own permission slip to go back to school and then they signed it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: But we wrote our own permission slips.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, let's be honest, now. How many times did you all skip school?
MRS. BAKER: Unless you did... (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Ok, I probably did, but right now I can't remember exactly ...
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes you did... (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: I remember getting mad and walking out of school one time. And they told me that I couldn't come back. But I did. And then, there was one morning, Evelyn and I had gym together, early morning. We were in high school and we walked to the high school and, I was a year ahead of her in school. And she got sick that morning. She was deathly sick and I told 'em, said, "I'm taking her home." They said, "No, you're not. You can't do it. It'll be unexcused." I said, "That's ok. I'm taking her home." And I took her home and stayed with her because I knew Mother and Dad weren't home. I stayed with her that day, then, when I did go back to school, it was an excused absence.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, there you go.
MRS. GOINS: That was one of the times.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, we were supposed to play hooky that day. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, were you?
MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: I can honestly say I skipped school one time. Only once. And that was with Bob, ok?
MRS. GOINS: Uh-oh, so Bob knows about it?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, he knows about it 'cause he was with me. He's the one that picked me up and dropped me off at the bottom of Decatur Road. I mean, bottom of Delaware Avenue, so I could walk up the hill and go home on time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well. There it is. (laughter) So y'all... So you didn't do very many social activities.
ALL: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you were able to go to the movie and hang out with friends, I imagine, and do friend group type things?
MRS. BRUCE: Just, more or less, the people in the people that was in the neighborhood is what ... Well, when we moved over to Portland Lane, there and everything, then there was a big group of us that walked to the high school every day and walk home together and everything and that's where, I guess, the only social activities we had for a while. Or I had, I know.
MRS. GOINS: Well, Mother and Dad wouldn't let us go very much.
MR. MCDANIEL: What year did each of you graduate high school?
MRS. GOINS: Well, I was scheduled in '53.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: But when I finished my junior year, I lacked one credit finishing, getting the diploma. So I talked to Mrs. Barnes and asked her if I could go to summer school and get that one credit so I didn't have to go through a complete year of school and she agreed to it. So, I went to summer school in '52 and got my diploma, so it took me three years to finish because I was dating Obie and we was thinking about getting married, so that was... I said, "Well, I'm not going to go through another year of school."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. GOINS: And I got my high school diploma by going to summer school.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, '52.
MRS. GOINS: '52.
MRS. BAKER: '54.
MR. MCDANIEL: '54.
MRS. BRUCE: And '56.
MR. MCDANIEL: '56. Ok.
MRS. GOINS: But Mother and Dad were ... They met everybody that we dated. They kind of met... And Mother always said, "I won't say anything about the guy you marry as long as you finish high school."
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. GOINS: I remember that when I was, what was it? ninth, tenth grade? Do you remember Mother and Dad saying that?
MRS. BAKER: No. (laughs)
MRS. BRUCE: They didn't say that to me. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: They learned their lesson. Now, how old were your mom and dad when they got married?
MRS. BAKER: Oh, dear.
MRS. GOINS: 23?
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, well they were...
MRS. BRUCE: They were in their early 20s I know.
MRS. GOINS: They were in their early 20s.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, they were older, then.
ALL: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Cause, you know, people used to get married when they were really young.
MRS. BAKER: Uh-huh. They weren't real young when they got married, were they?
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you graduated... each of you graduated high school from Oak Ridge High School.
ALL: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that correct?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then, where did each of you go from there?
MRS. GOINS: Well, I married Obie and he got... He was drafted into the military.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: So I started traveling with him. And, let's see... '54 we had the first child. Then we lived in Atlanta and from there we went... Hmm... I can't think right now. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok. That's all right.
MRS. BRUCE: All through the military. Always. Never knew...
MR. MCDANIEL: All through the military. You went all kinds of places.
MRS. GOINS: Yes. We travelled a lot. I started, when I had the daughter I told him, I said, "When she finishes... when she gets in first grade, I want to go to beauty school." And that's what I did. As soon as she started first grade, we were in Belvoir, Virginia, I started beauty school. So I finished half through it and then he got transferred to Okinawa. So he went on to Okinawa. I came back to Oak Ridge while he was gone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. GOINS: And I finished beauty school in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And I had four children, well five children, he was gone and I was going to beauty school. I graduated from beauty school and we went to Okinawa for three years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really? So, they had a beauty school in Oak Ridge?
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Excuse me.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, they did and it was down there where the ...
MRS. BRUCE: Tennessee School of Beauty that is now in Knoxville out on Western Avenue.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BAKER: But they were down there close to Townsite, what we used to...
MRS. BRUCE: In the old...
MRS. BAKER: Where the Oak Ridger used to be.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, down that street.
MRS. BRUCE: In that building there, Tyler or something is the name of it?
MRS. BAKER: Yeah. That's where it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Tyrone, is that what it is?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, I think maybe that is...
MRS. GOINS: And I finished beauty school and so, I knew if I had my license wherever in the military, I could work on base without having to get the state license.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MRS. GOINS: And that's what I did most of the time. But we had five children. The oldest one, he's been in Oak Ridge most of his life.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that's what I was about to ask. When you got through in the military, though, where did you...? Did you come back to Oak Ridge?
MRS. GOINS: Well, he trans... Yes, we stayed for a year here and then civil service called him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And so he came home and says, "What should I do?" And I said, "Well, we've been military for 21 years, why not just stay with 'em?"
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: So he went back in civil service and we stayed another 21 years in civil service.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MRS. GOINS: So that was traveling just like we did in the military, to some of the same places.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. GOINS: We lived in Germany, quite a few places, and we went to Okinawa and then Washington state and Texas and ... We've been around.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MRS. GOINS: And so has Evelyn. See, Obie made a career of the Army. Harold made a career of the Air Force.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: So they travelled.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that, Evelyn.
MRS. BAKER: Ok. I graduated in '54. I worked at Southern Bell Telephone Company until '56 when I got married. And then...
MR. MCDANIEL: Where was that? Southern Bell Telephone.
MRS. BAKER: It was down where ...
MRS. GOINS: Across the street from the Red Cross building.
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, well it used to be behind the old police station, which is now the... What is it? Juvenile Court building?
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok. Yeah, sure, sure, oh, yeah. I know where you're talking about, near the post office.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, fairly near. I worked there, what? Two years? Well, I started in Atlanta...
MRS. GOINS: Atlanta, then transferred back...
MRS. BAKER: ... then transferred to Oak Ridge and worked there until I got married. And then, I transferred to New York and worked in New York out in Garden City?
MRS. BRUCE: Long Island, I remember that.
MRS. BAKER: Yep.
MRS. BRUCE: I introduced her and her husband, ok.
MRS. BAKER: That's the reason I don't speak to her. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: And so, y'all stayed in the military.
MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Career military.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, and we've lived in a lot of places...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MRS. BAKER: Let's see: I've been overseas in Turkey. I've lived in Saudi Arabia...
MRS. GOINS: England.
MRS. BAKER: England. And in quite a few states. We, when we were first married, we moved about every six months.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. BAKER: Yeah. So we were six months in a place and then move.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand. When did you...? Now, when he ended his military career, where did y'all end up?
MRS. BAKER: Well, we came back and lived in Karns for a while after that. And then we went to Phoenix, Arizona.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BAKER: And we stayed out there almost 18 to 20 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BAKER: And then we came back here about seven years ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And it's nice to come back home to retire in this area.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. GOINS: That's what we... She did it and we did it and Gloris has just stayed here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Gloris, yeah, tell me about... tell me your story.
MRS. BRUCE: Well, after I graduated from high school, I worked at Southern Bell, too. McCrorys and then Southern Bell and then Bob and I got married. We met when we were 15 and started dating at age 15.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And then he went into the Navy and we got married and I travelled with him to Washington state and to California, but then he got out after three years of the Navy. Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And we came back to Oak Ridge and lived in Oak Ridge all those years and everything, until 27 years ago we moved down here to Kingston.
MRS. GOINS: I wanted to throw in one point: At one time, Mother had three daughters: Gloris was in Oak Harbor, Washington; I was in San Antonio, Texas; and Evelyn was up in Maine. So, three points of the United States.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness.
MRS. GOINS: That's the three of us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Yes. And we still kept in touch.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: But that was ... It was funny because Mother made a point and we kept in touch.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Now, Gloris, so you stayed in Oak Ridge.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes. Uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Y'all stayed in Oak Ridge.
MRS. BRUCE: Stayed in Oak Ridge. We had two boys that were both born in Oak Ridge Hospital and we raised those two boys and they started school and went through Oak Ridge High School. And then, after they got away from home and everything, we stayed in Oak Ridge, then, like I said. But we got into water skiing and boating and so we were down on Melton Hill Lake a lot. It got so that every time you camped out, you were 10 feet from someone else, so we started looking around and we found this property down here in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. BRUCE: And bought the property and ended up building down here after 10 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. But you were in Oak Ridge for a long, long time. Decades.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes. We moved to -- actually moved in down here in 1986.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. So where did you live in Oak Ridge after you got married?
MRS. BRUCE: After we got married, we lived in the Hillside Apartments.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: Times were hard for us growing... After we got married and everything. We had some rough times.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: But we lived in Hillside Apartments, and then we moved up on West Outer Drive in two different places up there. And then down on Jefferson Avenue. Ended up buying a house down on Jefferson and lived there for 20 something years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MRS. BRUCE: And then built down here and moved down here.
MR. MCDANIEL: You said your boys grew up in Oak Ridge, grew up in the Oak Ridge school system. How was it different...? How was the school system different for them than it was for you?
MRS. BRUCE: The school system was very lax when my boys were in school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. BRUCE: Maybe it's because the boys were a little bit more problem than I was when I was in high school, let's put it that way.
MR. MCDANIEL: When did they graduate high school?
MRS. BRUCE: '75 and '76.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, things were different then in the '60s and '70s. They were a little bit different.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: All around, you know.
MRS. BRUCE: The teachers were different. The teachers were, I used to say, glorified babysitters, Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, sure.
MRS. BRUCE: That's what I had the problem with and everything, so. But things were totally different.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. What was Oak Ridge like in the '60s and '70s and '80s while you were living there? What were some of the things that, maybe, changed, that you saw change?
MRS. BRUCE: I was so busy... I guess I was so busy raising my boys and then my Mother and Dad were there and my mother got sick and I was taking care of her a lot and everything that, like I say, times were hard. We were having some hard times there in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. BRUCE: I started working at EG&G ORTEC in the '60s. I worked there ... It was called Infabco at first and then it went to ORTEC.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And I worked there for them for 33 years before I retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really? What...? Who was...? Who ran ORTEC? Who was the...? Wasn't there, like, a founder? Who was that?
MRS. BRUCE: Tom Yount.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right. Tom Yount. That's right, I couldn't remember.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, he was president of the company when I went to work there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MRS. BRUCE: So I got in on the bottom floor, more or less, with ORTEC and I just stayed with 'em all those years.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was, kind of, that whole technology transfer, when all that technology transfer was going on from the Lab.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: You know, they were transferring technology to the private sector and things such as that. There's three or four companies like ORTEC in Oak Ridge that, kind of, took advantage of that and built good businesses, didn't they?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, they sure did. And they're still going today but it's under a different name. Ametek, I think or something like that?
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly. Exactly. And I think it... Yeah... And they may even be something else by now. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: But what was the thing that you built that went on the...?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh! Ok. The germanium detector that, when the first moon rocks came back from the moon and everything, I built part of the detector system and everything, that got close and checked the moon rocks.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? The germanium... The germanium detector system.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: What part of that were you involved in?
MRS. BRUCE: The manufacturing of it and everything and lab... I was a lab supervisor for 17 years in the processing part of the germanium.
MR. MCDANIEL: And my understanding is that germanium crystals will only grow, like, two places on the whole earth or something like that. Is that correct, or is that wrong?
MRS. BRUCE: No, we had a germanium-growing crystal lab there, so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. And Oak Ridge is one of these places. I mean, it's a very unique ... it has something to do with the geography and the climate and something like that. It's very... Oak Ridge is very unique in that germanium crystals grew well in this area for some reason.
MRS. BRUCE: That was a very high-tech process there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. BRUCE: I didn't work in the growing of the germanium, but I worked in processing them into the detectors and into the detector systems.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. So, what else do you want to talk about?
MRS. BAKER: Oh, great.
MR. MCDANIEL: As I said, here's your chance. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: Here's your chance.
MRS. BRUCE: Oak Ridge is nice. It was great growing up. I got to say that much anyway. I feel like it was. Because we had a unique town there and everything. It wasn't like Knoxville or Clinton and the other cities around and everything. It was a unique town. But after I grew up, and got married and the boys left home then we... It just changed. It was not the same and everything. But it took me a year to get used to not living in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure.
MRS. BRUCE: And it was a big, big adjustment for me. And, if we hadn't of sold that house there in Oak Ridge I might have been renting it from my husband. (laughter) 'Cause I didn't want... I really didn't want to come down here and everything. It took me a long time to get adjusted, but now I love it down here and everything. But still, it took a long time for me to feel like Oak Ridge was not home and everything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I'm sure.
MRS. BRUCE: But I can go back now and I don't feel like it's home. But it's taken me 20 something years to feel that way.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, I'm sure.
MRS. GOINS: Growing up in the city of Oak Ridge, everybody was from someplace else. It was built and everyone... There were people from all over the United States there. You never know where... There were people from all over the country and that's what was different about it. It wasn't being, like, in Clinton everybody's from Clinton and a hick town or something like that. You had the culture of all people and that was what was interesting. You met all sorts of people in school and you would ask, "Where are you from?" or "Where did you move from?"
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: This was later and this was interesting. That's what I enjoyed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did y'all consider Clinton a hick town?
MRS. GOINS: (laughing) That and Oliver Springs. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: And Oliver Springs... Because they were locals, weren't they?
ALL: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: But, yet, they knew nothing...
MRS. GOINS: They'd never been anyplace. They were from right there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, but y'all were from Brimstone and y'all talking about? (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Well, we were very lucky ...
MRS. BAKER: We went a long ways to get there, didn't we? (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Yes, and it's been... It's different...
MR. MCDANIEL: But that was, kind of, the way people... a lot of Oak Ridgers thought, I mean, outside of Oak Ridge, that, you know...
MRS. BRUCE: And people outside of Oak Ridge thought people that lived there in Oak Ridge were rich, that they were totally, you know, different people and everything. That everybody was intelligent and all this, but we were just normal people and everything. But what surprised me is that when we did get married and move away and everything, nobody had heard of the Secret City or it wasn't called the Secret City at the time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. BRUCE: But nobody had heard of Oak Ridge, Tennessee. They didn't know about the atomic bomb and everything and how... The Manhattan Project. They didn't know anything about it. Even the people down here in Kingston, they said that when they were growing up, they didn't know what was going on in Oak Ridge and that it was so secretive and everything. But I didn't think anything about a gate being up and this when we were in school.
MRS. GOINS: We did not talk about the work. You could have a best friend in Oak Ridge and come to find out later that their parents were one of the big dogs for the plants, because you did not discuss everybody... It just... Everybody did the same thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And you were friends with who you liked. It didn't matter who they were or what, it was just a different environment.
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely.
MRS. BAKER: Do you remember some of the odd things about the rolling store?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that.
MRS. BAKER: It was a... a bus and it came around, what? Once or twice a week?
MRS. GOINS: Selling vegetables.
MRS. BAKER: All kind of things.
MRS. BRUCE: Grocery items.
MRS. BAKER: Grocery items. You had your milk delivered to you.
MRS. GOINS: Oh, yeah, milk bottles.
MRS. BAKER: And there was a Jewel Tea Company that came around and delivered coffee, tea and some kind if cake, wasn't it?
MRS. GOINS: You didn't have a grocery store on every corner, that's for sure.
MRS. BRUCE: I can remember that Mother and Dad had to have these coupons, I mean, little tokens to get sugar and gas and ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Rationing.
ALL: Rationing.
MRS. BRUCE: And we were always trying to save or get gas rationing because every weekend, it seemed like, that we would travel from Eagleton Village or else Oak Ridge back to Scott County up there on Brimstone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: 'Cause our family -- our Mother and Dad -- were very family orientated, too.
MRS. BAKER: We went home because our grandfather was sick so much and Dad had to help out.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, that was true. But our grandparents lived across the street from each other, Ok. Or across the road, it wasn't a street.
MRS. BAKER: Road...Definitely a road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that was convenient.
ALL: Yeah...
MR. MCDANIEL: So did mine. (laughter) I'll tell you that story when we stop.
MRS. BAKER: Do you have this story? Both of our parents were Griffith before they got married.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: But I think they've traced it back to the 15th Century before we could say that they were kin.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. They weren't, like, you know, second cousins or anything like that.
ALL: No... No... No way... (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: It was two branches.
MR. MCDANIEL: That'd be found in Oliver Springs, is that what it was? That's awful.
MRS. BRUCE: But up on Brimstone, it was a whole different world up there and everything.
MRS. GOINS: It still is.
MRS. BRUCE: Our mother and dad... Our mother's mother and dad lived on top of a mountain. You could only get up there by walking -- it took you 45 minutes to walk up there -- or else, finally at the end, you could get up there by Jeep.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: But he lived on top of a mountain without any electricity and running water and I can remember walking that 45 minutes up there to stay with them and everything.
MRS. BAKER: Now the mountain's not there anymore, they've...
MRS. BRUCE: Coal mining, strip mining...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... Well, is there anything else you want to talk about Oak Ridge?
MRS. BRUCE: Let's see... about Oak Ridge...
MRS. GOINS: I wouldn't change it for anything. It was difficult, it was new. That's all we knew back then. That's all we knew. I'm just glad Mother and Dad moved away from Brimstone and got out and we've had a good life.
MRS. BRUCE: Our dad passed away there in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's what I was about to ask.
MRS. BRUCE: Our mother died in 19-...
MRS. GOINS: '68.
MRS. BRUCE: '68. Very young and everything and then Dad lived by himself there on Independence Lane until 1994...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: ... when he passed away. And so, I was there with him. I was the one that lived in Oak Ridge all those years and took care of him and looked after him, more or less and everything, so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure... So he must have liked Oak Ridge.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, he did.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was probably a good opportunity for him from the beginning.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes, it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: To support his family, to have work, to have a job, you know.
MRS. BRUCE: And back then, he had to retire when he reached 65.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? That was it.
MRS. BAKER: It was.
MRS. BRUCE: It was mandatory. So he retired after that from the plant down there. He kept the same job all those years, didn't he?
MRS. BAKER & MRS. GOINS: Yes...
MRS. BAKER: And one thing I got to say about our dad, and everything, he didn't graduate from high school until he was 59 years old.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: And, when ... After our mother passed away then he spent his time, the first few years, he spent his time studying and getting his GED so he got a diploma when he was 59 years old.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. BRUCE: So he was a determined type person and everything, so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, good, good...All right. Well, ladies, thank y'all so much...
MRS. BRUCE: Between the three of us, we had 10 children -- nine boys and one girl and everything. And so, we've stayed close...
MR. MCDANIEL: And you've been married how many years combined? (laughter) I've got this sheet of paper...
MRS. BRUCE: If you add all of 'em together it will soon be 175 years that the six of us have all been together.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And we're still speaking, still talk together on the phone every day...
MRS. GOINS: We go out to eat once a month, try to.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Now that we're back here. We've travelled a lot.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand.
MRS. GOINS: Gloris came to Germany. Evelyn used to come to Germany. We'd meet no matter where we were.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: But we still yet lived three totally different lives, you might say and everything. But yet we're still close, I think.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, thank y'all for taking time to talk with me. I appreciate it.
MRS. BRUCE: Well, thank you for coming and letting us get this off our chest. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right... Very good. Thank you.
[End of Interview]

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ORAL HISTORY OF THE GRIFFITH SISTERS
(EVELYN BAKER, GLORIS BRUCE, AND CHARLENE GOINS)
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
November 22, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is November 22, 2013, and I am south of the river, south of Kingston, at the home of Gloris and Bobby Bruce. And, Gloris is on the left and her two sisters are with us today and Evelyn Baker is in the center and Charlene Goins is on the right. Ladies, thank y'all for taking time to talk with us.
MRS. BRUCE: Thank you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now don't be shy, speak up, one of you. Let's start at the very beginning. Tell me where y'all were born and raised and something about your family.
MRS. BRUCE: Well, I think all three of us were born in Robbins, Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: Where is that?
MRS. BRUCE: Up in Scott County and it was about 13 miles up a dirt road that was called Brimstone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And that explains it, I think. (laughter) We moved from there in 1943.
MRS. GOINS: '43 we moved out.
MRS. BRUCE: On September the 10th of 1943, we moved from there.
MRS. GOINS: That was your birthday, that's why you... Moved to Eagleton Village.
MRS. BRUCE: No, not '43, '42.
MRS. GOINS: '42.
MRS. BRUCE: In 1942, we moved from Brimstone to Eagleton Village in Maryville and we lived there for what, six months or so and then in April of 1944, we moved to Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, was it just you three sisters? Did you have any brothers?
MRS. BAKER: No brothers.
MRS. BRUCE: Just the three of us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just the three of you.
MRS. BRUCE: Our father started... He started working at Oak Ridge in 1943, September of 1943, and he worked there until he got us with him in Oak Ridge in April of 1944.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, so... So he was working -- he was driving from Maryville...
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: ... to Oak Ridge every day, or traveling from Maryville to Oak Ridge every day to work.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did he do there? Do you know?
MRS. BRUCE: He was a mechanic.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, was he? (coughs) 'Scuse me. Where did he work?
MRS. BRUCE: X-10.
MR. MCDANIEL: He worked at X-10, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, I think, at the time, what was...? Clinton Engineering?
MR. MCDANIEL: Clinton Engineer Works was the whole thing, but X-10 was that site. So. Now, how old were each of you when you moved from Maryville to Oak Ridge?
MRS. BRUCE: I was five.
MRS. BAKER: Seven.
MRS. GOINS: Nine.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, two years apart?
MRS. BAKER: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you lived in Oak Ridge, you grew up in Oak Ridge, didn't you?
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, your mother, she was a homemaker is that correct or did she work?
MRS. BAKER: She worked at the plants for a while, didn't she?
MRS. BRUCE: At K-25.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. BRUCE: Off and on, at times. She didn't work a long time, did she?
MRS. GOINS: No, no, we had to have babysitters. We were too young then to stay by ourselves.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And so, she would work when she could and she worked at the plant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now where did you live when you moved to Oak Ridge? What house did you move to?
MRS. BRUCE: The first one was on 150 Arrowood Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Out in East Oak Ridge.
MRS. GOINS: A little two-bedroom flattop.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. GOINS: It was a flattop, had muddy roads, boardwalks.
MRS. BRUCE: Coal bins. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: And how long did you live on Arrowood Road?
MRS. BRUCE: Well, we moved from that house, we moved to one across the street to a... One that had some shade and trees around it and everything and that was at 147 West Arrowood Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And then we moved to ...?
MRS. BAKER: Alger...
MRS. GOINS: 175 Alger Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And then from there, we moved to 116 Portland Lane...
MRS. BAKER: Portland Lane...
MRS. BRUCE: Which is no longer... You know, that is where Food City and that shopping mall is there now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Man... (coughs) 'Scuse me.
MRS. BRUCE: Manhattan Project... not Manhattan Project...
MR. MCDANIEL: Manhattan Place? (coughs) 'Scuse me. Oh, that's where that was? Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: Uh-huh. And then from there we moved to 107 Decatur Road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And that is when, then, let's see, Charlie, you got married in...?
MRS. GOINS: '53, we lived on Portland Lane.
MRS. BRUCE: And Evelyn got married in 5-...?
MRS. BAKER: Come on, sis!
MRS. BRUCE: '55...?
MRS. BAKER: '56.
MRS. BRUCE: And that's when we lived on Decatur.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And I got married when we lived in Decatur and I got married in '57.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. So, what was it like growing up in Oak Ridge? I mean, you were there from ... I mean, you were all old enough to remember when you first went to Oak Ridge, at least a little bit, I imagine. And then, you were there through the '40s and the '50s as, you know, as young people. You were there, you know, when they opened the gates, you know, you witnessed all the change.
ALL THREE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: So tell me, just talk about a little bit about what it was like living in Oak Ridge in the '40s and '50s.
MRS. GOINS: I just remember in Arrowood, going to school in the morning -- we got a story about that. But anyway, going to school in the morning and then coming home and there would be a complete new street of flattops. They'd bring the flattops in on trucks. The two-bedroom flattops were in two sections, but the bigger flattops were in three sections, and they would put 'em up and put furniture in and build a whole street in a day's time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: And muddy roads and boardwalks they'd put up so we could walk on the boardwalks rather than walk through the mud.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now where did you go to...? Did you go to...?
MRS. GOINS: Elm Grove.
MRS. BAKER: Elm Grove.
MR. MCDANIEL: Elm Grove.
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: She went the first day, on the bus. She had to get on the bus and go. I didn't go. And then the second day, I went because we assumed that she knew how to get home. (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: But, yeah, Mother and Dad did not take us to register us. That was up to us. We had to register ourselves when we'd go into the school, we'd register ourselves and then they'd put us in school. Well, the second day... The first day, I made it home just fine, on the bus. We walked down, a couple of houses down on West Arrowood.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And the second day they decided, since I made it so good, that they would let Evelyn go with me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: She was in the second grade and I was in the third grade.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: Well, the girl that I was depending on getting off the bus, she was not on the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: So I missed that bus stop. We went all up, all up through Alabama, Arkansas and got off the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh.
MRS. GOINS: We were lost. Two kids and Mother and Dad did not have a telephone, no car to get around and this was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And Evelyn and I started walking. And we just know that we would see the house and we would know it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Eventually.
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Eventually.
MRS. BAKER: Two hours later...
MRS. GOINS: Two hours later... Now, two girls, we'd ask people...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: ... to help us find our way home. Well, two high school girls, we don't know the names or anything, we didn't bother finding out, they decided they'd walk with us and try to find it. So they walked with us. And we came in to the opposite end of West Arrowood from which we had gone to Elm Grove.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: One was carrying Evelyn and I was walking. And Mother met us about halfway in the street. Oh! I can remember the relief on her face. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet.
MRS. GOINS: And we were walking in the middle of the street looking for her and here they were coming up the street.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. GOINS: And we could see 'em half a street away.
MRS. BAKER: Mmm-hmm. It was 5 o'clock, just before Dad got home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really? My goodness.
MRS. GOINS: That was a scary time.
MR. MCDANIEL: So really... So you, I mean, you didn't know it well enough to be able to really find your...
ALL: No...
MRS. GOINS: They didn't give us a little paper with our address on it. They didn't, you know... We had to have that at school. I guess we must have left that at school or what not, because I don't remember ever having an address saying that's where we lived.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you knew what it looked like.
MRS. GOINS: But we knew what it looked like.
MRS. BAKER: It was hard to do, being as everything looked alike.
MRS. GOINS: It was all flattops, it was all two-bedrooms or three-bedroom flattops on West Arrowood, if you're familiar with that area.
MR. MCDANIEL: I am.
MRS. GOINS: Ok. But we lived there for a long time and it was OK. But now, if you go to the Museum and look at that two-bedroom flattop they have, it's hard to remember that we actually lived in that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: And then we had a babysitter that lived with us part of the time and... I don't see how we made it. Not in this day and time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: It was totally different and everything back then because, see, I ... When they went to school for the first couple of months, I wasn't old enough and they didn't have a kindergarten then so I didn't start school until that following September. And I remember sitting on that hill there overlooking the Turnpike, which was nothing but mud and gravel.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And they were... There was these big transport or these big trucks coming down the road bringing workers in, Army colored... and the back of it was covered and everything like that, bringing those in. And I tried to count the cars and everything, and, of course, just not even being in first grade, I was trying to learn how to count and I'd try counting vehicles coming in. It was just one right after the other.
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Cause West Arrowood's just right there next to the Turnpike so you were able to see all the comings and goings of the Turnpike.
MRS. BRUCE: From the Clinton end.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah, sure, from that end. So... What else was it like? I mean, what else are some things that you remember.
MRS. BRUCE: I can remember the day that the war ended, Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Can you really?
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: Because my mother's brother, our Uncle Fred, was in the Army and he got in without us knowing, in the gates without us knowing about it and everything and, 'bout the time they were announcing that the war was over, we saw him walking down the road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. BRUCE: He found us there in Oak Ridge and everything. And I can remember all the sirens and everything going off at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: For a child, though, to hear that the war's over then see your uncle walking down the road, that made perfect sense, didn't it? (laughter)
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, the war's over. He's home. You know, so. Well that was, yeah, so, that was probably one of the first memories -- real memories -- that you have, isn't it?
MRS. BRUCE: Well, I can remember back when they had the blackouts and everything, in the city and everything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that. I've not heard much about those.
MRS. BRUCE: The blackouts?
MRS. BAKER: You had to turn out all the lights.
MRS. BRUCE: And only have a candle and if you had...
MRS. GOINS: Black curtains on the windows. We had to have black curtains on the windows.
MRS. BRUCE: And the sirens would go off and you would -- I felt like we had to hide or something like that and everything. And it was very scary because we didn't know what was going on but evidently it was just drills.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: But I remember several of those and everything, and the sirens going off and it was dark outside and it was so eerie and everything like this.
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet. I bet.
MRS. BRUCE: But as far as knowing that we were in a secret city or what, I knew nothing...
MRS. GOINS: Well we lived in gates... When we had company, the uncles or aunts or anybody, come to the gate, they would have to call you or get in touch with you and you had to know they were coming and you would meet 'em at the gate with a pass.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: That's the only way they could come in.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And we were 12 years old, you could get a badge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MRS. BAKER: I've still got mine.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you?
MRS. GOINS: I still have mine, too. And I was…
MRS. BRUCE: They opened the gates just right before I turned 12 so I didn't get one. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. Now, did you all ... Did you all go to the opening of the gates festivities?
ALL: Oh, yes, yes...
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that day, 'cause it was down on your end of town.
MRS. GOINS: And we all had been sick with the flu. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, had you?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was March of '49, as I recall.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, I couldn't remember what month it was, but I remember that we did have on coats and we were there on the Turnpike and it was around where First Baptist Church is now, isn't it?
MRS. GOINS: Mmm-hmm.
MR. MCDANIEL: But it was Elza Gate is where they had the actual...
MRS. BAKER: Yeah. It was out there.
MR. MCDANIEL: ... the actual. It was out at Elza Gate is where.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, no, no, this is the parade that I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, you remember the parade.
MRS. BRUCE: But we didn't... I don't remember the other ceremonies. I don't guess we went to them, did we?
MRS. GOINS: I don't think so, because they were very careful. We had just gotten over the flu. We even had our coats on and they wouldn't let us get out and stand outside, we had to look at it from the car.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Oh, I see. So you probably went down downtown and watched the parades.
MRS. BAKER: Parades.
MRS. GOINS: Sunset Carson was there and I remember some of the ...
MRS. BRUCE: Rod Stewart?
MRS. GOINS: Rod Stewart, Alben Barkley...
MRS. BRUCE: Mae West.
MRS. GOINS: Mae West.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, Mae West wasn't there. And his name Rod... It wasn't Rod Stewart, it was Rod... Rod Cameron.
ALL: Cameron...
MR. MCDANIEL: Rod Cameron. But... "The Body"...
MRS. GOINS: Bodybuilder, Marie McDonald?
MR. MCDANIEL: Marie "The Body" McDonald ...
MRS. BRUCE: McDonald... Ok...
MR. MCDANIEL: ...was there and Alben Barkley was the vice president and he was there. And also, do you remember the fellow who's the host of Queen for a Day.
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes... I'm trying to think of his name...
MR. MCDANIEL: Jack... Jack... somebody.
MRS. GOINS: Jack Daily?
MRS. BAKER: No, no..
MR. MCDANIEL: I don't remember, but he was the host of...
MRS. BAKER: Queen for a Day.
MRS. BRUCE: I remember that program, but ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you remember the parade? You remember going to the parade?
MRS. BRUCE: I do remember the parade, in fact, I've still got a lot of the pictures from the parade.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: And I have donated some of those to the museum, I think, haven't I? 'Cause some of those books I saw at the Secret City this past summer, some of the pictures I had donated were in that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: Mmm-hmm...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, well good.
MRS. BRUCE: So I've still got a lot of stuff from the early days of Mom and Dad there in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. What was it like to be teenagers in Oak Ridge?
MRS. GOINS: Mother and Dad were very strict. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that's what I was about to say, a father with three daughters, you know.
MRS. BRUCE: Very, very strict.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BAKER: Let's see...
MRS. BRUCE: We weren't allowed to join any of those high school sorority clubs.
MRS. GOINS: No. The Wildcat Den. We'd never been in the Wildcat Den.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: That was a hangout for the teenagers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. They wouldn't let you in the Wildcat Den, huh? They wouldn't let you go?
MRS. GOINS: No, they wouldn't let us go.
MRS. BRUCE: They kept very close...
MRS. GOINS: No, we weren't allowed to go there. We did go skating at the skating ring down at Jefferson. We did that. We'd go to movies a lot. Center Theater and Ridge Theater.
MRS. BRUCE: But we weren't allowed to go to bowling alleys because those were rough places to go.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Yes. I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: So he.. So they were strict...
MRS. BRUCE: Very much so.
MR. MCDANIEL: How old were you when you were allowed to date?
MRS. GOINS: 16?
MRS. BAKER: About 16 I would say.
MR. MCDANIEL: With them knowing about it, that's the question. (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Ninth grade.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ninth grade.
MRS. GOINS: But you didn't car date to start with.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: It was all... bus.
MRS. BAKER: Get on the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And then go to the theatre and the guy would bring you back home on the bus and then say good night, then he'd get the bus and go back home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Uh-oh! I may be saying too much...(laughter)
MRS. BRUCE: I think I was, what? 14?
MRS. GOINS: No, I was 16.
MRS. BAKER: 16...
MRS. BRUCE: I was either 13 or 14 when I got to have my first date, OK.
MRS. BAKER: Yeah, but you were younger. They were lax on you.
MRS. BRUCE: They were.
MRS. GOINS: We were trial and error, weren't we?
MR. MCDANIEL: They were worn out by the time you came along. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: They were very strict on Charlie.
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: But we walked a lot of places and everything when we were... And I know that I started babysitting in Oak Ridge when I was 12 years old and, you know, my mom and dad and the people I was babysitting for, if it was OK with everybody, I would walk home by myself at 12, 1 o'clock at night.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: No problem, and everything, because we lived there on Portland Lane when I was babysitting and there was a lot of those apartments there that are still there now, that I would babysit in and people would come home and let me go home and I would walk home by myself and no...
MRS. GOINS: It was in the general neighborhood, close by.
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, yeah, it wasn't miles or cross-town or anything but I would walk home and no problem, nothing bothered me. It was safe.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, it was a different place then.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, it definitely was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Talk about riding the buses. I mean, 'cause they had quite the bus system in Oak Ridge when you were growing up.
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes, they did, didn't they?
MRS. GOINS: We could transfer the bus and go wherever you wanted to do. And we felt... Now, we felt safe in Oak Ridge because of the gates.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: They were there and we knew that soldiers were guarding and I was never scared. We were never really scared. We would go anyplace in Oak Ridge we wanted to.
MRS. BRUCE: But then, after the gates opened and everything ...
MRS. GOINS: It was a little different...
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, they had different buses then, too, I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you had to pay for the bus at some point, didn't you? They used to be free.
MRS. BRUCE: Then you had tokens.
MRS. GOINS: Tokens, what? Six cents a token or something like that. I remember the first time.
MRS. BRUCE: Even the, some of the workers down at the plants and everything, rode the buses to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: Because I can remember down at the bottom of Decatur Road is where I caught the bus going to, I guess, high school. And the, someone that lived up there off of Decatur Road and what was that other street up through there and everything? He was some...very intelligent person walked down to the bus stop and would get on the bus and everything. And I was so amazed that sometimes he forgot to put his token in. And I remember finding out that the bus drivers were told that sometimes these guys were -- had their mind on something else and to not disturb them and not to stop 'em and make 'em put their token in. And I can remember him getting on the bus and riding it. It didn't go just to the high school, it went all over Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BAKER: But most of the time, you had to transfer at Townsite.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you? You had to go to the main terminal down there?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: And transfer.
MRS. BAKER: Transfer.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And we always rode to school to junior high, the bus to junior high school. We always, we never ... Mother and Dad would never think about taking us to school. Everybody rode the bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was ...? Where was that? Where was the junior high?
MRS. BAKER: It was on Robertsville.
MRS. GOINS: Robertsville and Illinois.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you went to Robertsville?
MRS. BRUCE: But it was...
MR. MCDANIEL: That was the only junior high they had back then?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, but it was called...
MRS. BRUCE & MRS. BAKER: Jefferson.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was called Jefferson, right. I understand.
MRS. GOINS: And we lived up in East Town, up there. We lived up there so we had to ride the school bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, you had to ride the school bus. That was a little far.
MRS. GOINS: Mmm-hmm... And I remember the first day of... First day of school, I was in ninth grade and Mother and Dad called the school to get us out of school. Evelyn was in eighth grade.
MRS. BAKER: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And they called the school to get us out of school 'cause our grandfather had died.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And Evelyn and I walked over and caught the bus and went home that day and they -- they didn't pick us up or anything. We went home and then we went to the funeral, our grandfather's funeral.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. So, you went to Jefferson which is now where Robertsville is.
ALL: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then, when you went to high school, it was on, it was right across from Jackson Square, there. Right?
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: You went there.
MRS. GOINS: Yes, I went there.
MRS. BAKER: I never went there. I went to the new one.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right? When did...? What year...?
MRS. BAKER: Yes, when I went to high school ...
MRS. BRUCE: Wait a minute, you would have had to have...
MRS. BAKER: I didn't go up there.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, maybe you didn't. Because I remember I went up there at Jackson Square when I was in the eighth grade. That was the only year that I was there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because they changed... When the high school moved, that became the Jefferson Junior High, didn't it?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: See, I wasn't there.
MRS. BRUCE: You were older. Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: See that school became... that became the second junior high when the new high school opened, the old high school became the second junior high school.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: As I recall, I mean, I could be mistaken but I think that's what happened.
MRS. GOINS: I went into the new high school for the last year.
MR. MCDANIEL: For the last year.
MRS. GOINS: Junior in ... so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, what do you remember about school? Tell me some stories about junior high and high school.
MRS. BAKER: School?
MR. MCDANIEL: Were y'all allowed to be involved in, like, you know, activities at school, you know, band or chorus or sports or anything like that?
MRS. GOINS: No, we didn't stay after school for that. That was something extra.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: And we always came home. 'Cause Mother was working or Dad was working and we always came home. We didn't participate that much in after school activities.
MRS. BRUCE: No, nothing like that at all. You know, we must have led a very boring life. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, seems like it was fairly sheltered, wasn't it?
MRS. BAKER & MRS. BRUCE: Yes, it was. Yes.
MRS. GOINS: Oh, the Griffith girls were... They really, really ... We were sheltered and everyone that knew us, knew...
MR. MCDANIEL: Knew that?
MRS. BAKER: Yeah.
MRS. GOINS: Knew that we were the protected ones.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, sure, sure... But what about your classes and some of your teachers.
MRS. GOINS: Well, in my ninth grade I remember I had Mr. Clinton.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: And he was really good. That was one of the first men teachers I'd ever had.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: He was... He was good. It was for social studies and home room. It was just a quiet... you got along, we got along with everybody. And sometimes, well, you were on the edge of the big popular group, but you were not in with the bad group, or... It was a little bit different. We weren't in the popular, but we were right there on the edge of it. That was about the way I felt.
MRS. BAKER: Ok. Who was the science teacher? I know you had him.
MRS. BRUCE: Mr. Plumley.
MRS. BAKER: Mr. Plumley. (laughter) Yes. If you went in his class, you had…
MRS. BRUCE: Margaret Barnes was the counselor. Ok. Remember her?
MRS. BAKER: No, not really.
MR. MCDANIEL: Maybe you had to see her more than the others. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: And that algebra teacher, Mr. Ripley.
MRS. BRUCE: He, oh, yes...
MRS. GOINS: He went on to become the principal of the high school.
MRS. BRUCE: And then after that, he went on up to become Superintend of Schools in Oak Ridge.
MRS. GOINS: Well, I wasn't around for that, then.
MRS. BRUCE: I went to see him when he was Superintendent at the high school, because I had two boys in Oak Ridge High School.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: And I didn't like the way Oak Ridge Schools were being run at that time and I let it be known. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: Did it do much good?
MRS. BRUCE: No. (laughter) But I went to see Mr. Ripley at that time about that. But, now, our parents didn't...
MRS. BAKER: They didn't go to school
MRS. BRUCE: for anything and, like... We had... We weren't badgered to get your homework done, all this and that. We knew we had to get it done and we didn't get any help from them, we had to do our homework and be responsible for ourselves.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: Mother and Dad only had finished the eighth grade...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: ... in a one-room schoolhouse that Evelyn and I actually attended for a couple... For a year before we moved from Brimstone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. GOINS: The same schoolhouse that our Mother and Dad had attended. And they had gone to school together.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. GOINS: Mmm-hmm. I think... but, no, it was different, it was a different lifestyle. We were taught to be independent and I don't ever remember them going to school or anything. And our -- if we were absent, we wrote our own permission slip to go back to school and then they signed it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: But we wrote our own permission slips.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. BRUCE: Ok, let's be honest, now. How many times did you all skip school?
MRS. BAKER: Unless you did... (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Ok, I probably did, but right now I can't remember exactly ...
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes you did... (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: I remember getting mad and walking out of school one time. And they told me that I couldn't come back. But I did. And then, there was one morning, Evelyn and I had gym together, early morning. We were in high school and we walked to the high school and, I was a year ahead of her in school. And she got sick that morning. She was deathly sick and I told 'em, said, "I'm taking her home." They said, "No, you're not. You can't do it. It'll be unexcused." I said, "That's ok. I'm taking her home." And I took her home and stayed with her because I knew Mother and Dad weren't home. I stayed with her that day, then, when I did go back to school, it was an excused absence.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, there you go.
MRS. GOINS: That was one of the times.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, we were supposed to play hooky that day. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, were you?
MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: I can honestly say I skipped school one time. Only once. And that was with Bob, ok?
MRS. GOINS: Uh-oh, so Bob knows about it?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, he knows about it 'cause he was with me. He's the one that picked me up and dropped me off at the bottom of Decatur Road. I mean, bottom of Delaware Avenue, so I could walk up the hill and go home on time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well. There it is. (laughter) So y'all... So you didn't do very many social activities.
ALL: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you were able to go to the movie and hang out with friends, I imagine, and do friend group type things?
MRS. BRUCE: Just, more or less, the people in the people that was in the neighborhood is what ... Well, when we moved over to Portland Lane, there and everything, then there was a big group of us that walked to the high school every day and walk home together and everything and that's where, I guess, the only social activities we had for a while. Or I had, I know.
MRS. GOINS: Well, Mother and Dad wouldn't let us go very much.
MR. MCDANIEL: What year did each of you graduate high school?
MRS. GOINS: Well, I was scheduled in '53.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: But when I finished my junior year, I lacked one credit finishing, getting the diploma. So I talked to Mrs. Barnes and asked her if I could go to summer school and get that one credit so I didn't have to go through a complete year of school and she agreed to it. So, I went to summer school in '52 and got my diploma, so it took me three years to finish because I was dating Obie and we was thinking about getting married, so that was... I said, "Well, I'm not going to go through another year of school."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. GOINS: And I got my high school diploma by going to summer school.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, '52.
MRS. GOINS: '52.
MRS. BAKER: '54.
MR. MCDANIEL: '54.
MRS. BRUCE: And '56.
MR. MCDANIEL: '56. Ok.
MRS. GOINS: But Mother and Dad were ... They met everybody that we dated. They kind of met... And Mother always said, "I won't say anything about the guy you marry as long as you finish high school."
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. GOINS: I remember that when I was, what was it? ninth, tenth grade? Do you remember Mother and Dad saying that?
MRS. BAKER: No. (laughs)
MRS. BRUCE: They didn't say that to me. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: They learned their lesson. Now, how old were your mom and dad when they got married?
MRS. BAKER: Oh, dear.
MRS. GOINS: 23?
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, well they were...
MRS. BRUCE: They were in their early 20s I know.
MRS. GOINS: They were in their early 20s.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, they were older, then.
ALL: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: 'Cause, you know, people used to get married when they were really young.
MRS. BAKER: Uh-huh. They weren't real young when they got married, were they?
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you graduated... each of you graduated high school from Oak Ridge High School.
ALL: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that correct?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then, where did each of you go from there?
MRS. GOINS: Well, I married Obie and he got... He was drafted into the military.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: So I started traveling with him. And, let's see... '54 we had the first child. Then we lived in Atlanta and from there we went... Hmm... I can't think right now. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok. That's all right.
MRS. BRUCE: All through the military. Always. Never knew...
MR. MCDANIEL: All through the military. You went all kinds of places.
MRS. GOINS: Yes. We travelled a lot. I started, when I had the daughter I told him, I said, "When she finishes... when she gets in first grade, I want to go to beauty school." And that's what I did. As soon as she started first grade, we were in Belvoir, Virginia, I started beauty school. So I finished half through it and then he got transferred to Okinawa. So he went on to Okinawa. I came back to Oak Ridge while he was gone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. GOINS: And I finished beauty school in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And I had four children, well five children, he was gone and I was going to beauty school. I graduated from beauty school and we went to Okinawa for three years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really? So, they had a beauty school in Oak Ridge?
MRS. GOINS: Yes.
MRS. BAKER: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Excuse me.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, they did and it was down there where the ...
MRS. BRUCE: Tennessee School of Beauty that is now in Knoxville out on Western Avenue.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BAKER: But they were down there close to Townsite, what we used to...
MRS. BRUCE: In the old...
MRS. BAKER: Where the Oak Ridger used to be.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, down that street.
MRS. BRUCE: In that building there, Tyler or something is the name of it?
MRS. BAKER: Yeah. That's where it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Tyrone, is that what it is?
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, I think maybe that is...
MRS. GOINS: And I finished beauty school and so, I knew if I had my license wherever in the military, I could work on base without having to get the state license.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MRS. GOINS: And that's what I did most of the time. But we had five children. The oldest one, he's been in Oak Ridge most of his life.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that's what I was about to ask. When you got through in the military, though, where did you...? Did you come back to Oak Ridge?
MRS. GOINS: Well, he trans... Yes, we stayed for a year here and then civil service called him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And so he came home and says, "What should I do?" And I said, "Well, we've been military for 21 years, why not just stay with 'em?"
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: So he went back in civil service and we stayed another 21 years in civil service.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MRS. GOINS: So that was traveling just like we did in the military, to some of the same places.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. GOINS: We lived in Germany, quite a few places, and we went to Okinawa and then Washington state and Texas and ... We've been around.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MRS. GOINS: And so has Evelyn. See, Obie made a career of the Army. Harold made a career of the Air Force.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. GOINS: So they travelled.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that, Evelyn.
MRS. BAKER: Ok. I graduated in '54. I worked at Southern Bell Telephone Company until '56 when I got married. And then...
MR. MCDANIEL: Where was that? Southern Bell Telephone.
MRS. BAKER: It was down where ...
MRS. GOINS: Across the street from the Red Cross building.
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, well it used to be behind the old police station, which is now the... What is it? Juvenile Court building?
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok. Yeah, sure, sure, oh, yeah. I know where you're talking about, near the post office.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, fairly near. I worked there, what? Two years? Well, I started in Atlanta...
MRS. GOINS: Atlanta, then transferred back...
MRS. BAKER: ... then transferred to Oak Ridge and worked there until I got married. And then, I transferred to New York and worked in New York out in Garden City?
MRS. BRUCE: Long Island, I remember that.
MRS. BAKER: Yep.
MRS. BRUCE: I introduced her and her husband, ok.
MRS. BAKER: That's the reason I don't speak to her. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: And so, y'all stayed in the military.
MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Career military.
MRS. BAKER: Yes, and we've lived in a lot of places...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MRS. BAKER: Let's see: I've been overseas in Turkey. I've lived in Saudi Arabia...
MRS. GOINS: England.
MRS. BAKER: England. And in quite a few states. We, when we were first married, we moved about every six months.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. BAKER: Yeah. So we were six months in a place and then move.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand. When did you...? Now, when he ended his military career, where did y'all end up?
MRS. BAKER: Well, we came back and lived in Karns for a while after that. And then we went to Phoenix, Arizona.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BAKER: And we stayed out there almost 18 to 20 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BAKER: And then we came back here about seven years ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. GOINS: And it's nice to come back home to retire in this area.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. GOINS: That's what we... She did it and we did it and Gloris has just stayed here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Gloris, yeah, tell me about... tell me your story.
MRS. BRUCE: Well, after I graduated from high school, I worked at Southern Bell, too. McCrorys and then Southern Bell and then Bob and I got married. We met when we were 15 and started dating at age 15.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And then he went into the Navy and we got married and I travelled with him to Washington state and to California, but then he got out after three years of the Navy. Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And we came back to Oak Ridge and lived in Oak Ridge all those years and everything, until 27 years ago we moved down here to Kingston.
MRS. GOINS: I wanted to throw in one point: At one time, Mother had three daughters: Gloris was in Oak Harbor, Washington; I was in San Antonio, Texas; and Evelyn was up in Maine. So, three points of the United States.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness.
MRS. GOINS: That's the three of us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Yes. And we still kept in touch.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: But that was ... It was funny because Mother made a point and we kept in touch.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Now, Gloris, so you stayed in Oak Ridge.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes. Uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Y'all stayed in Oak Ridge.
MRS. BRUCE: Stayed in Oak Ridge. We had two boys that were both born in Oak Ridge Hospital and we raised those two boys and they started school and went through Oak Ridge High School. And then, after they got away from home and everything, we stayed in Oak Ridge, then, like I said. But we got into water skiing and boating and so we were down on Melton Hill Lake a lot. It got so that every time you camped out, you were 10 feet from someone else, so we started looking around and we found this property down here in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. BRUCE: And bought the property and ended up building down here after 10 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. But you were in Oak Ridge for a long, long time. Decades.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes. We moved to -- actually moved in down here in 1986.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. So where did you live in Oak Ridge after you got married?
MRS. BRUCE: After we got married, we lived in the Hillside Apartments.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: Times were hard for us growing... After we got married and everything. We had some rough times.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: But we lived in Hillside Apartments, and then we moved up on West Outer Drive in two different places up there. And then down on Jefferson Avenue. Ended up buying a house down on Jefferson and lived there for 20 something years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MRS. BRUCE: And then built down here and moved down here.
MR. MCDANIEL: You said your boys grew up in Oak Ridge, grew up in the Oak Ridge school system. How was it different...? How was the school system different for them than it was for you?
MRS. BRUCE: The school system was very lax when my boys were in school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. BRUCE: Maybe it's because the boys were a little bit more problem than I was when I was in high school, let's put it that way.
MR. MCDANIEL: When did they graduate high school?
MRS. BRUCE: '75 and '76.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, things were different then in the '60s and '70s. They were a little bit different.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: All around, you know.
MRS. BRUCE: The teachers were different. The teachers were, I used to say, glorified babysitters, Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, sure.
MRS. BRUCE: That's what I had the problem with and everything, so. But things were totally different.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. What was Oak Ridge like in the '60s and '70s and '80s while you were living there? What were some of the things that, maybe, changed, that you saw change?
MRS. BRUCE: I was so busy... I guess I was so busy raising my boys and then my Mother and Dad were there and my mother got sick and I was taking care of her a lot and everything that, like I say, times were hard. We were having some hard times there in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. BRUCE: I started working at EG&G ORTEC in the '60s. I worked there ... It was called Infabco at first and then it went to ORTEC.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And I worked there for them for 33 years before I retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really? What...? Who was...? Who ran ORTEC? Who was the...? Wasn't there, like, a founder? Who was that?
MRS. BRUCE: Tom Yount.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right. Tom Yount. That's right, I couldn't remember.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, he was president of the company when I went to work there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MRS. BRUCE: So I got in on the bottom floor, more or less, with ORTEC and I just stayed with 'em all those years.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was, kind of, that whole technology transfer, when all that technology transfer was going on from the Lab.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: You know, they were transferring technology to the private sector and things such as that. There's three or four companies like ORTEC in Oak Ridge that, kind of, took advantage of that and built good businesses, didn't they?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, they sure did. And they're still going today but it's under a different name. Ametek, I think or something like that?
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly. Exactly. And I think it... Yeah... And they may even be something else by now. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: But what was the thing that you built that went on the...?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh! Ok. The germanium detector that, when the first moon rocks came back from the moon and everything, I built part of the detector system and everything, that got close and checked the moon rocks.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? The germanium... The germanium detector system.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: What part of that were you involved in?
MRS. BRUCE: The manufacturing of it and everything and lab... I was a lab supervisor for 17 years in the processing part of the germanium.
MR. MCDANIEL: And my understanding is that germanium crystals will only grow, like, two places on the whole earth or something like that. Is that correct, or is that wrong?
MRS. BRUCE: No, we had a germanium-growing crystal lab there, so...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. And Oak Ridge is one of these places. I mean, it's a very unique ... it has something to do with the geography and the climate and something like that. It's very... Oak Ridge is very unique in that germanium crystals grew well in this area for some reason.
MRS. BRUCE: That was a very high-tech process there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. BRUCE: I didn't work in the growing of the germanium, but I worked in processing them into the detectors and into the detector systems.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. So, what else do you want to talk about?
MRS. BAKER: Oh, great.
MR. MCDANIEL: As I said, here's your chance. (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: Here's your chance.
MRS. BRUCE: Oak Ridge is nice. It was great growing up. I got to say that much anyway. I feel like it was. Because we had a unique town there and everything. It wasn't like Knoxville or Clinton and the other cities around and everything. It was a unique town. But after I grew up, and got married and the boys left home then we... It just changed. It was not the same and everything. But it took me a year to get used to not living in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure.
MRS. BRUCE: And it was a big, big adjustment for me. And, if we hadn't of sold that house there in Oak Ridge I might have been renting it from my husband. (laughter) 'Cause I didn't want... I really didn't want to come down here and everything. It took me a long time to get adjusted, but now I love it down here and everything. But still, it took a long time for me to feel like Oak Ridge was not home and everything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I'm sure.
MRS. BRUCE: But I can go back now and I don't feel like it's home. But it's taken me 20 something years to feel that way.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, I'm sure.
MRS. GOINS: Growing up in the city of Oak Ridge, everybody was from someplace else. It was built and everyone... There were people from all over the United States there. You never know where... There were people from all over the country and that's what was different about it. It wasn't being, like, in Clinton everybody's from Clinton and a hick town or something like that. You had the culture of all people and that was what was interesting. You met all sorts of people in school and you would ask, "Where are you from?" or "Where did you move from?"
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. GOINS: This was later and this was interesting. That's what I enjoyed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did y'all consider Clinton a hick town?
MRS. GOINS: (laughing) That and Oliver Springs. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: And Oliver Springs... Because they were locals, weren't they?
ALL: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: But, yet, they knew nothing...
MRS. GOINS: They'd never been anyplace. They were from right there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, but y'all were from Brimstone and y'all talking about? (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Well, we were very lucky ...
MRS. BAKER: We went a long ways to get there, didn't we? (laughter)
MRS. GOINS: Yes, and it's been... It's different...
MR. MCDANIEL: But that was, kind of, the way people... a lot of Oak Ridgers thought, I mean, outside of Oak Ridge, that, you know...
MRS. BRUCE: And people outside of Oak Ridge thought people that lived there in Oak Ridge were rich, that they were totally, you know, different people and everything. That everybody was intelligent and all this, but we were just normal people and everything. But what surprised me is that when we did get married and move away and everything, nobody had heard of the Secret City or it wasn't called the Secret City at the time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. BRUCE: But nobody had heard of Oak Ridge, Tennessee. They didn't know about the atomic bomb and everything and how... The Manhattan Project. They didn't know anything about it. Even the people down here in Kingston, they said that when they were growing up, they didn't know what was going on in Oak Ridge and that it was so secretive and everything. But I didn't think anything about a gate being up and this when we were in school.
MRS. GOINS: We did not talk about the work. You could have a best friend in Oak Ridge and come to find out later that their parents were one of the big dogs for the plants, because you did not discuss everybody... It just... Everybody did the same thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. GOINS: And you were friends with who you liked. It didn't matter who they were or what, it was just a different environment.
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely.
MRS. BAKER: Do you remember some of the odd things about the rolling store?
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that.
MRS. BAKER: It was a... a bus and it came around, what? Once or twice a week?
MRS. GOINS: Selling vegetables.
MRS. BAKER: All kind of things.
MRS. BRUCE: Grocery items.
MRS. BAKER: Grocery items. You had your milk delivered to you.
MRS. GOINS: Oh, yeah, milk bottles.
MRS. BAKER: And there was a Jewel Tea Company that came around and delivered coffee, tea and some kind if cake, wasn't it?
MRS. GOINS: You didn't have a grocery store on every corner, that's for sure.
MRS. BRUCE: I can remember that Mother and Dad had to have these coupons, I mean, little tokens to get sugar and gas and ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Rationing.
ALL: Rationing.
MRS. BRUCE: And we were always trying to save or get gas rationing because every weekend, it seemed like, that we would travel from Eagleton Village or else Oak Ridge back to Scott County up there on Brimstone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: 'Cause our family -- our Mother and Dad -- were very family orientated, too.
MRS. BAKER: We went home because our grandfather was sick so much and Dad had to help out.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. BRUCE: Yeah, that was true. But our grandparents lived across the street from each other, Ok. Or across the road, it wasn't a street.
MRS. BAKER: Road...Definitely a road.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that was convenient.
ALL: Yeah...
MR. MCDANIEL: So did mine. (laughter) I'll tell you that story when we stop.
MRS. BAKER: Do you have this story? Both of our parents were Griffith before they got married.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. BAKER: Yes.
MRS. BRUCE: But I think they've traced it back to the 15th Century before we could say that they were kin.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. They weren't, like, you know, second cousins or anything like that.
ALL: No... No... No way... (laughter)
MRS. BAKER: It was two branches.
MR. MCDANIEL: That'd be found in Oliver Springs, is that what it was? That's awful.
MRS. BRUCE: But up on Brimstone, it was a whole different world up there and everything.
MRS. GOINS: It still is.
MRS. BRUCE: Our mother and dad... Our mother's mother and dad lived on top of a mountain. You could only get up there by walking -- it took you 45 minutes to walk up there -- or else, finally at the end, you could get up there by Jeep.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. BRUCE: But he lived on top of a mountain without any electricity and running water and I can remember walking that 45 minutes up there to stay with them and everything.
MRS. BAKER: Now the mountain's not there anymore, they've...
MRS. BRUCE: Coal mining, strip mining...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... Well, is there anything else you want to talk about Oak Ridge?
MRS. BRUCE: Let's see... about Oak Ridge...
MRS. GOINS: I wouldn't change it for anything. It was difficult, it was new. That's all we knew back then. That's all we knew. I'm just glad Mother and Dad moved away from Brimstone and got out and we've had a good life.
MRS. BRUCE: Our dad passed away there in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's what I was about to ask.
MRS. BRUCE: Our mother died in 19-...
MRS. GOINS: '68.
MRS. BRUCE: '68. Very young and everything and then Dad lived by himself there on Independence Lane until 1994...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. BRUCE: ... when he passed away. And so, I was there with him. I was the one that lived in Oak Ridge all those years and took care of him and looked after him, more or less and everything, so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure... So he must have liked Oak Ridge.
MRS. BRUCE: Yes, he did.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was probably a good opportunity for him from the beginning.
MRS. BRUCE: Oh, yes, it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: To support his family, to have work, to have a job, you know.
MRS. BRUCE: And back then, he had to retire when he reached 65.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? That was it.
MRS. BAKER: It was.
MRS. BRUCE: It was mandatory. So he retired after that from the plant down there. He kept the same job all those years, didn't he?
MRS. BAKER & MRS. GOINS: Yes...
MRS. BAKER: And one thing I got to say about our dad, and everything, he didn't graduate from high school until he was 59 years old.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. BRUCE: And, when ... After our mother passed away then he spent his time, the first few years, he spent his time studying and getting his GED so he got a diploma when he was 59 years old.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. BRUCE: So he was a determined type person and everything, so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, good, good...All right. Well, ladies, thank y'all so much...
MRS. BRUCE: Between the three of us, we had 10 children -- nine boys and one girl and everything. And so, we've stayed close...
MR. MCDANIEL: And you've been married how many years combined? (laughter) I've got this sheet of paper...
MRS. BRUCE: If you add all of 'em together it will soon be 175 years that the six of us have all been together.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: And we're still speaking, still talk together on the phone every day...
MRS. GOINS: We go out to eat once a month, try to.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. GOINS: Now that we're back here. We've travelled a lot.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand.
MRS. GOINS: Gloris came to Germany. Evelyn used to come to Germany. We'd meet no matter where we were.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. BRUCE: But we still yet lived three totally different lives, you might say and everything. But yet we're still close, I think.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, thank y'all for taking time to talk with me. I appreciate it.
MRS. BRUCE: Well, thank you for coming and letting us get this off our chest. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right... Very good. Thank you.
[End of Interview]