Kumar’s Twitter account, with roughly 1600 followers including numerous well-known names in the MRM, looks to be the official account for the Men’s Rights Movement group on Facebook, a public group that boasts some 14,000 members, among them AVFM’s Paul Elam and British MRA/child prostitution apologist Tom Martin.

The link in his tweet is to a story that details the charges against War Machine, as well as his hyperbolic MRA-eqsue views, so there’s no question that Kumar knows just who he’s endorsing here.

AVfM Managing Editor Dean Esmay co-hosts AVfM Radio’s Revelations with Erin Pizzey and Tales from the Infrared. He also writes about numerous topics on Dean’s World and The Moderate Voice. He encourages people to look at issues through the lens of compassion for men who deserve it, and respect for women who deserve it. He is the author of the critically-acclaimed novel Methuselah’s Daughter.

He encourages people to look at issues through the lens of compassion for men who deserve it, and respect for women who deserve it.

???? That’s so weird! Why doesn’t he encourage compassion for ALL men, not just those that “deserve it”? Why not respect for ALL women? What criteria are used to make the decision that someone “deserves” respect or compassion? And is compassion for women and respect for men out of the picture? For what reason?

I just looked up Methuselah’s Daughter out of curiosity and Esmay is listed as a contributor, with John Eddy as the author (and the person who created the main character, according to the summary). Kinda funny that his bio implies he’s the sole author of it.

Why doesn’t he encourage compassion for ALL men, not just those that “deserve it”? Why not respect for ALL women? What criteria are used to make the decision that someone “deserves” respect or compassion? And is compassion for women and respect for men out of the picture? For what reason?

Yeah, funny how those guys are all about “deserving”. If it’s a question of THAT, then I’d say they don’t deserve respect OR compassion, because their whole snotty “I’ll decide what’s right for YOU, girlie” attitude makes it impossible to feel either one towards them.

Is this from AVFM’s bio? Because this is really unintentionally relevatory. A lot like Elam’s “You’re consent is not required” remark.

It is indeed.
I never got the whole “respect is earned” thing.
Though…
I wonder in what sense he is using the word “respect”…that’s important I’ve heard the saying “respect is earned.” and it baffled me, because I thought of respect as “respecting rights.”

So respect would not be a synonym for admiration *to me.*
But maybe to others it would be.

When I say I respect people I mean the following:

to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with,

Or sort of an antonym of “Insulting, bellittling, badgering, abusing, violating.”
I don’t mean:

the condition of being esteemed or honored:

I don’t generally give everyone

esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability.

You really do have to prove yourself worthy of being held in esteem…though I note that telling a person you believe in their ability to do________ well is a great way to shore up their faith in themselves so that they CAN do _______ well.
(definitions from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/respect )

So are they saying they don’t respect my autonomy and humanity unless I *earn* it? Are they saying I deserve to be treated as subhuman until I earn full humanity?
What do y’all think?

So are they saying they don’t respect my autonomy and humanity unless I *earn* it? Are they saying I deserve to be treated as subhuman until I earn full humanity?
What do y’all think?

I honestly think that they mean it that way. If you look at all of their ramblings, it really points to “rights are only applied to those who have esteem which must be earned”. I’ve seen racists make similar arguments. By combining “respect as in basic human decency” and “respect as in admiration”, they have a great code word that normally flies under people’s bullshit radar with which to make horrible arguments and it gives the speaker/writer plausible deniability when it comes to being called out on their bullshit. I mean, how many times have we heard “I didn’t mean it like THAT”?

I do bear some scorn for the way MRA’s usually ignore…well…data and documented facts that don’t line up with their biases.
You can’t really have a reasonable debate with someone like that, you know?
I also am angered that they aren’t interested in looking for points of agreement.

I don’t think that they think too hard about what words actually mean, and so often use them haphazardly.</blockquote

Yup. I think they work on the premise that if you don't respect someone for your own reasons, then you’re perfectly entitled to be rude, dismissive, insulting and generally horrible to them.

Whereas most of us work on a different hierarchy of terms or concepts. Like this one I saw on a poster in the physio’s office.

Courtesy is required.
Respect is earned.
Love is given.

This construction cuts right across their particular mindset. Rather than treating everyone with ordinary civility regardless of whether they know them, they feel free to be rude and offensive to anyone and everyone unless and until they demonstrate their worthiness to be admitted to this rather small group. It’s actually a reversal or inversion of normal social interaction. Most adults are reasonably polite to others unless and until they demonstrate that they’re beyond the bounds of normal interaction. Even then, they’re more likely to avoid or minimise interaction with an undesirable individual or group rather than scale it up to verbal warfare.

Rather than treating everyone with ordinary civility regardless of whether they know them, they feel free to be rude and offensive to anyone and everyone unless and until they demonstrate their worthiness to be admitted to this rather small group. It’s actually a reversal or inversion of normal social interaction. Most adults are reasonably polite to others unless and until they demonstrate that they’re beyond the bounds of normal interaction. Even then, they’re more likely to avoid or minimise interaction with an undesirable individual or group rather than scale it up to verbal warfare.

MM, awesome comment, and exactly! I’ve seen and met people like this, not just MRA’s, but people who just seem hostile to everybody but their own ingroup, and that’s a great way of explaining it. Thanks!

War Machine said that “Men’s Oppression is worse than slavery”…… I said on twitter that Many men are realizing this……. Allegations against War Machine may or may not be correct, he may or may not be an ideal human being- nothing stops his right to think like a Man, express his view like a Man, realize slavery of a Man…… and I endorse his views on slavery of Men.

War Machine said that “Men’s Oppression is worse than slavery”…… I said on twitter that Many men are realizing this……. Allegations against War Machine may or may not be correct, he may or may not be an ideal human being- nothing stops his right to think like a Man, express his view like a Man, realize slavery of a Man…… and I endorse his views on slavery of Men.

We Hunted the Mammoth tracks and mocks the white male rage underlying the rise of Trump and Trumpism. This blog is NOT a safe space; given the subject matter -- misogyny and hate -- there's really no way it could be.