Only have two local ranges, and both say that. Or at least I think they do. I know for sure the range that is closer does, but that's because their range fee is cheap and they pick up brass and sell it to help bring in some extra income to keep the range looking nice. Although with the pile of old brass laying in front of the shooting areas I honestly doubt they pick up brass. And the other range that is a bit further but massively more expensive, I don't remember if they allow brass to be picked up or not, but I don't think so. They're a nicer range, and have a 1,000 yard rifle range, but they're like three times the cost of the closer range, because they have you pay by the range. If you want to shoot a pistol, you pay for the pistol range. If you want to shoot a rifle you pay for the rifle range. If you want to do both then you pay separately for both. The closer range you pay $15 and get everything, but the rifle range is only 100 yards.

I'll give the more expensive range a call tomorrow and see what they say about picking up brass.

Went to the website of the more expensive range, all it says is that shooters are expected to pick up their brass, it doesn't say they're required to give the range what falls on the ground... >.< That was about 150 cases I gave to them that I could've kept if I had read the rules. Son of a blankety blake! >.< Oh well, live and learn. At least now I know I can shoot my AR and police my brass and keep it. The nice thing is that from where I was shooting most of my brass wound up in a big pile in the corner, so it'd be fairly easy to pick that up. But I don't know what the pistol range is like, since I only paid for the rifle range.

Well, I guess my memory is crap. The cheaper place says you can pick up your brass, so long as you pick up only your brass, not someone else's brass, and you notify the staff that you'll be policing your brass. I could've sworn it used to say you couldn't pick up any brass. Eh, oh well. The problem with that place is that's a pain to police your brass, because it goes everywhere, and it doesn't collect neatly in one place like it did at the more expensive range.

Whenever I'm at a range, I check with the people around me to see what caliber they shoot and if they want the brass. It's rare to shoot the same caliber as someone who also reloads. Usually I'm the only one squatting around burning my fingers with hot brass. Even still, I know the headstamps on all my brass. All my 5.56 is Lake City NATO headstamped from either '09 or '11. If it isn't one of those, I don't bother picking it up just from a consistency standpoint. Progressive presses don't like surprises when it comes to case dimensions.

At least you know how to shoot your rifle, I have no idea if I'm doing it right or doing something wrong. Mainly due to the fact that I can't see the target well enough at 50 yards to tell if I'm hitting it or not. My eyesight sucks and it's past time for new glasses. Though I don't know if those will help any. It might be that I have to scrap the idea of learning how to shoot with irons, and just go straight to a scope.

It's not so much the press itself as it is the brass prep. The more consistent your cases, the less you have to do to make them all the same. If you slam a 357 Mag case into an expander die that's set up for 38 Special, you flare the shit out of the end and get the case stuck in the die. Then you rip the case mouth off trying to un-jam the press. That'll happen in a single stage or a progressive. You just have to be careful with progressives, because you don't handle every case in each stage the way you do with a single stage or turret press. You're more likely to catch imperfections or defects when using a single stage or turret press.

As for shooting, all it takes is consistency. Fire fifteen rounds at a target using the same aim point. Then walk out to the target and look at it. If all fifteen land in a tight group, but aren't on the spot you were aiming, that's a simple sight adjustment. If the rounds are landing all over the place, then that's on you, and you need to work on your fundamentals. Using these principals, I can hit a steel target that's the same size or smaller than my front sight post and is way too far away to hear the impact. It just takes patience. With semi-auto rifles and high cap magazines, it's difficult to be patient cuz you can bang out thirty rounds in fifteen seconds. The tough part is shooting ten rounds and taking fifteen minutes to make sure each shot is right. It makes it a little easier if you reload, because you can think of each lovingly handcrafted cartridge as a piece of art you don't want to waste by blowing through the mag.

On a progressive, the shellplate turns and the dies don't move once you set them. Five stations mean five different cases are having five things done at once. Every pull of the handle results in a fully formed cartridge.

A turret is like a single stage, where all the dies are pre-loaded on a rotating head. One pull of the handle for each stage, rotate the head, move to the next stage on the same case.

On a progressive, the ram holds many cases, and is the part that spins. On a turret, the ram only holds one case, and the die head is the part that spins.

You get the case-to-case intimacy of a single stage with increased production rates. The closer you can pay attention to each case, the less chance of mistakes. If I'm loading for match shooting, I don't need a lot of volume. The ultimate in accuracy requires each cartridge to be identical to the next down below the thousandth of an inch, each charge needs to be weighed individually, and each primer pocket needs to be perfectly uniform and clean. These things are annoying on a progressive.

The progressive is all about volume. It's not that they are inherently less precise than a single stage, but that it's more annoying to have digital precision with each case. I can bang out hundreds of rounds per hour once the progressive is set up. Before I got the progressive, it took three hours to make 100 pistol cartridges. Thursday it took me less than 30 minutes to make 100 380 ACP cartridges. If each of those cases is absolutely flawless, and the powder throw is set absolutely perfectly, then it will make match grade ammo just the same as a single stage.

With a turret, you get a blending of the two. You get increased production from a single stage, but with the potential for attention to detail like a single stage. I have both a single stage and a progressive press, so I can accomplish both precision and volume. You could theoretically do the same thing with just a turret press. Probably the Redding T-7 Turret Press, if I were gonna get one for myself.

I do. But honestly, I mostly use the progressive. There's been a bullet puller die in my single stage for the last year or so. That's all I really use it for these days. I use it for augmenting the progressive or for testing. I haven't loaded a round on it in years. It's a convenient tool , but probably not a requirement. Really, the only reason I have both is because I bought the single stage back when I was really broke. The RCBS single stage cost me about $250 for everything I need to reload. When I got my new job, I could afford a Hornady Ammo Plant, which cost a little more than a grand full stop.

But, there's no caliber restriction, you can choose to either leave your brass or collect it, the range is self-policing as far as "hot" and "cold" (if you want to change target you tell the person(s) next to you and they pass on the word, shooters on the ends contact each other with thumbs up/down and yell range hot/cold, all shooters set down weapons and step back, once everyone is comfortable the range is accessed), and the range-master is very relaxed while keeping a watchful eye on everyone.

He'll let you rapid fire as long as you can handle it and it isn't overly distracting to other shooters, and he's a trained and equipped paramedic in case of any emergency.

Best part about it all? It's 100% free. The range is funded by donations and fees associated with local hunting/fishing permits. If you want to shoot there, you sign a liability waiver, mark off how many people are in your group on the range use document, and head on over. Open sunrise to sunset, all shooters welcome!

Don't ever use CheaperThanDirt. They are scumbags driven by profit and were the first ones to throw gun owners under the bus when the scare got the better of us.

Selling cheap ARs for thousands more than they were worth, selling Magpul Pmags for close to $100 a piece, steel-case TulAmmo 9mm for $60 a box, and worse.

IIRC they stopped selling guns period for a while, and started cancelling orders that were already placed and awaiting shipment just so they could sell those items at a higher price later.

Imagine ordering a shotgun for $500. You go through the checkout, give them your info, pay the $500, get the e-mail confirmation, and wait for the tracking number. A day or two later, you get an e-mail saying "Hey dude, that shotgun your ordered? Yeah, it's now $1000. So, you owe us another $500 before we can ship it. K thanks bye!" And you either pay it or say F off and cancel your order...

It was generally bashed on gun forums as cheaperThanGold, for their asshole tactics. I have never bought anything from them, and after the bullshit they pulled, I never, ever, ever will even consider buying anything from them. I don't care if I have to pay an extra $200 to buy it, they're not getting a dime from me.

It used to be we'd shoot 22 LR to save money. It's getting to the point where it's actually almost just as cheap to shoot 9mm and 40 S&W. I only pop out the 22 these days for my wife cuz she really likes the lack of recoil.

Especially since .22lr is so dang hard to find, and you can get remanufactured ammo from Freedom Munitions for $0.28+shipping/round for .40S&W, and remanufactured will work just fine for range plinking.

I'm pretty sure the bulk of the 22 LR I have right now is more valuable on this current market than the guns I have chambered in that round. Especially since no one can afford (or find) any ammo for them.

seems like i should fill out the forms and sell some .22lr i could be a rich man

Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

You can afford to get one first, $100 is a drop in the bucket copmared to $1000

Not when I don't have a job and no source of income and it takes me forever to scrounge $100, and would take me just as long to replace it.

Plus, if I get a Mosin, then I'm going to want to get a sling for it, and ammo, and a parts kit, and a bore brush, and, and, and...

As my 10/22 will attest, it's kind of silly to not get a rifle and ammo at the same time, and it all adds up in a hurry. And by the time I realize what's going, my Garand budget is gone and spent on something else.

I'm not looking for an excellent condition Garand, the $650 Service Grade from the CMP seems like it will work just fine for me.

Mosins will always be kicking around cheap, but once the CMP is out of Garands then there won't be a cheap source for them and the prices will only go up, unfortunately. So I need to get one of those while I can.

Not if you clean the cosmo out of the chambers properly. I can cycle both my Mosins from the shoulder.

I have four Mosins. I hot tanked them all. Any cleaner and I'd be removing the bluing. One of them cycled smooth until it got hot, then you needed to smack it around. So I worked that one over, smoothing the bolt and locking lugs. That one is now my normal shooter. The other three are rough. I'm sure that with some work, they would get better, but for now my wife still needs a piece of wood to cycle them. No amount of cleaning will make a difference. It depends entirely on the individual gun, and probably how much breaking in each one got back in the first half of the last century.

You can afford to get one first, $100 is a drop in the bucket copmared to $1000

Not when I don't have a job and no source of income and it takes me forever to scrounge $100, and would take me just as long to replace it.

Plus, if I get a Mosin, then I'm going to want to get a sling for it, and ammo, and a parts kit, and a bore brush, and, and, and...

Mosins will always be kicking around cheap, but once the CMP is out of Garands then there won't be a cheap source for them and the prices will only go up, unfortunately. So I need to get one of those while I can.

No job blows, I'm kind of feeling that now since work at the machine shop is slow.

But when you buy a Mosin, aside from ammo you get everything you need and some stuff you don't even want. You get the sling, some ammo pouches, the cleaning kit with the ends for the rod in the rifle, the multi-tool, a bottle of mollasses, and a blood stained leather pouch. Toss out the bottle of mollasses and the pouch, and as long as you have another rifle of some kind you'll already have cleaning patches, solvent, and oil. As was mentioned a few posts ago, 7.62x54r is dirt cheap.

Can't argue with the Garand availability, though. They are drying up quickly. At least the M1As aren't going anywhere soon and they are a decent replacement for a functioning M1 pattern rifle. Don't nearly have the nostalgia, but are in a more economical round, have tons of parts and accessories, and most importantly have manufacturer support!

I'd love an M1 as well, but if I could at least get an M1A I'd still be happy.

M1As are fairly easy to get since Springfield Armory is still making them. Unfortunately they cost about double what an M1 Garand costs, which is why I'm waiting to get one. I'd rather get the surplus rifles that won't be around forever first, rather than get a rifle that's still in production and will be for the forseeable future.

And, unfortunately, Mosin's don't come with all that stuff anymore. They stopped once they realized they could jack up the price of the Mosin, include only the bayonet, and then also sell everything on the side to make an even bigger profit. Probably happened about the time of Sandy Hook when everybody started buying everything, and people were willing to pay $150-200 for a Mosin with only a bayonet. And while prices have come down some, they're still only coming with a bayonet. And that's if you buy it from online. If I were to buy one from my store, I'm pretty sure it'd only come with the bayonet, or maybe even only the rifle itself, and I think it'd be $150+tax.

As to Mosin ammo being cheap, the surplus stuff is, but I don't know how to deal with corrosive ammo, so I've been looking at trying to find some non-corrosive stuff.

M1As are fairly easy to get since Springfield Armory is still making them. Unfortunately they cost about double what an M1 Garand costs, which is why I'm waiting to get one. I'd rather get the surplus rifles that won't be around forever first, rather than get a rifle that's still in production and will be for the forseeable future.

And, unfortunately, Mosin's don't come with all that stuff anymore. They stopped once they realized they could jack up the price of the Mosin, include only the bayonet, and then also sell everything on the side to make an even bigger profit. Probably happened about the time of Sandy Hook when everybody started buying everything, and people were willing to pay $150-200 for a Mosin with only a bayonet. And while prices have come down some, they're still only coming with a bayonet. And that's if you buy it from online. If I were to buy one from my store, I'm pretty sure it'd only come with the bayonet, or maybe even only the rifle itself, and I think it'd be $150+tax.

As to Mosin ammo being cheap, the surplus stuff is, but I don't know how to deal with corrosive ammo, so I've been looking at trying to find some non-corrosive stuff.

Isnt there a company that makes ''new'' garands that cost as much as a new M1A

Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

Yeah, their might be, but they don't have the blemishes and history of a military surplus M1 Garand. And since I can't get a military surplus M14, an M1A will have to do, which is why I'm fine with that as opposed to trying to get a military surplus M14.

My whole goal is to get as many military surplus firearms as possible. I love the blemishes, and the history, and the age. It gives the rifle more character than I could ever give it, and I like that.

Sure my AR-15 is nice and a blast to shoot, but it just doesn't have the history that an SKS, or a Mosin, or a Garand will.

I also plan on trying to eventually find a military surplus 1911 once I have a high paying job and some extra spending money.

What else should I put on my military surplus list? Do they have semi-auto military surplus AK-47s? And I need a german rifle too. Can't all be Russian, Chinese and American.

You need a Mauser, probably a 98K. And a Springfield M1903. And a Swiss K31. And an Enfield SMLE. That should round out your bolt-gun collection.

What I've really wanted as of late was a Madsen LMG. It's the original light machine gun. All recoil operated with cams controlling everything. Inverted magazine feeds in the side of the gun, ejection out the bottom. And they came in about a thousand different calibers.

The Garand, M-14 (which is largely a modified Garand), FN FAL, AR variants, AK-47, and SKS sprettymuch make up the majority of the semi-auto battle rifles that were worth a damn last century. Anything else, you really can't get your hands on easily, or wasn't very successful. Unless you're willing to breech the technological barrier, which in my mind starts with the AR and the Styer AUG. For the most part, those two mark the beginning of the "modern" semi-auto rifle era, where plastic and high tech polymers started to invade every gun. Much like the Browning Hi-Power started to mark the standardization of semi-auto pistols, as it was the culmination of the 1911 design evolution. That pistol largely laid out the pattern for what a modern semi-auto pistol is supposed to look like and the features a hammer-fired pistol is supposed to have.

And therein lies the problem. There was a lot of originality in firearm design in the beginning of the 20th century because successful designs hadn't really been hashed out yet. A lot of originality, but by comparison, not a whole lot of success or even functionality. A lot of guns had neat or novel concepts, but never really panned out, or didn't work as designed or intended. Even the great Browning BAR didn't work as the weapon it was designed to be. They intended it to be a powerhouse of walking suppressive fire, but that style of fighting proved to be a bad idea, and instead the BAR basically ended up being one of the first Squad Automatic Weapon systems.

Around the middle of the century, successful designs that actually worked started to emerge and really show dominance. There was still some innovation going on, but it was slowing down as the definition of what would be successful was starting to come clear. Google the David Dardick gun and his "tround" (a magazine fed revolver, essentially) or the Gyrojet pistol (basically a handheld 12 or 13mm rocket launcher) for neat designs that never caught on. Advances in arms technology these days revolve mostly around the development of new materials that allow us to make things lighter or have less recoil or handle better. Everything from plastic to caseless ammunition to save weight to new polymers and metals that allow guns to be be smaller, handle better and more ergonomically, and stay cooler through longer sustained fire.

So the question is: what are you looking for? Are you looking for the greats that set the standards of success in the 20th century? Because that's prettymuch them listed above. Or do you want some of the more off-the-wall stuff that may have been cooler or even in some cases better and more effective, but never really caught on. Those guns are usually obscure and difficult to procure. For a great website dealing with the obscure classics, head over to ForgottenWeapons.com and check those guys out. They also have a neat YouTube channel here.

I'm mainly looking for the greats, stuff that was actually used in battle and well known. Not really looking for obscure or off the wall stuff. Like the M1 Garand is a great semi-auto for me to have because it's very well known, very well made, and has lots of history. The Mosin Nagant is a great bolt action for me to have because it's very well known, it has lots of history, and a lot of them were made so it's cheap. I want an SKS because it's well known and it's cheap. I want a 98K, along with at least one other mauser type of rifle. And I'll definitely pick up a 1903 and an Enfield at some point. I want to try and find battle used ones. But if I can't find those then I'll takew new production.

So, I decided to trade my M&P 9 I used for home defense for a shotgun. No particular reason other than I was getting bored with the 9.
Anyway, I traded for a Mossberg 590.
The previous owner did a sort of "tacti-cool" thing with it, which I thought just looked tacky and lame (à la too much Call of Duty).
So, taking inspiration from this particular model's parkerized finish and heat shield, I traded all that tactical tupperware for a WWII trench gun theme.
I think I accomplished that pretty well.

So, I decided to trade my M&P 9 I used for home defense for a shotgun. No particular reason other than I was getting bored with the 9.
Anyway, I traded for a Mossberg 590.
The previous owner did a sort of "tacti-cool" thing with it, which I thought just looked tacky and lame (à la too much Call of Duty).
So, taking inspiration from this particular model's parkerized finish and heat shield, I traded all that tactical tupperware for a WWII trench gun theme.
I think I accomplished that pretty well.

that looks pretty damn cool good job

Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

I wouldn't go with 10mm personally. I hear it recoils a lot and the extra bang doesn't give much more damage over a .45 or 9mm when using defense rounds. Are you using this gun for protection against bears or people?

10mm is a phenomenal cartridge. It's the 357 Magnum of the semi-auto world. It's the literal do-all. You can hunt with it (I've seen guys take 250-300 lb hog with a 10mm) and use it for personal defense either in the woods or on the street. The thing to look out for is the fact that factory loads aren't exactly up to snuff. A lot of companies don't take advantage of the pressures that 10mm is designed to achieve, and you basically end up getting what turns out to be a 40 S&W +P. You should be seeing at least a 2-300 fps increase from 40 to 10mm with the same bullets. Energy levels should be right there with hardcore 357 loads starting at about 650 ft-lbs and going up from there. Any lower than that, and you aren't taking advantage of the cartridge. If you need more punch than a fully fledged 10mm, go get yourself a 44 Magnum. Both 357 Magnum and 10mm have the unfortunate tendency to be loaded much lighter than their cartridges have the potential for. Underwood and Buffalo Bore are some of the only companies that really put out ammo in 10mm that realizes the potential of the cartridge.

As far as recoil, yes it is going to be more stout than you're probably used to if you've been shooting 9, 40, and 45. Personally, I've had my idea of what recoil is readjusted by some very large rifle calibers, and my own Smith & Wesson 460 XVR revolver, which chucks a 360 grain 45 caliber bullet at 1900 fps, which I confirmed over a chrono. Recoil is relative. If you can handle it, you'll be fine. It's probably not going to hurt you unless you're limp-wristing a 9 or 40. What'll help is getting yourself a nice heavy gun like a 1911, which will help absorb a lot of recoil.

If you're insistent on a Glock, I recommend going to a range where you can rent one, or borrow one from someone. First thing you do is put one round in the magazine. Fire that one, then make sure the trigger clicks once that round has been fired. If it doesn't seem like the trigger reset, that means you actually pulled the trigger twice, and would have fired the second round into the roof. You may laugh, but I see this this more often than I should with heavy calibers and people who aren't used to recoil. This is especially true in new shooters. And a if you think a nice heavy trigger pull will save you, you're mistaken The S&W 500 revolver has a 12-16 lb trigger pull in DA, and a woman was recently killed when the recoil caused her to double tap while at the same time the muzzle rise was so great that she shot herself in the head.

10mm is a phenomenal cartridge. It's the 357 Magnum of the semi-auto world. It's the literal do-all. You can hunt with it (I've seen guys take 250-300 lb hog with a 10mm) and use it for personal defense either in the woods or on the street. The thing to look out for is the fact that factory loads aren't exactly up to snuff. A lot of companies don't take advantage of the pressures that 10mm is designed to achieve, and you basically end up getting what turns out to be a 40 S&W +P. You should be seeing at least a 2-300 fps increase from 40 to 10mm with the same bullets. Energy levels should be right there with hardcore 357 loads starting at about 650 ft-lbs and going up from there. Any lower than that, and you aren't taking advantage of the cartridge. If you need more punch than a fully fledged 10mm, go get yourself a 44 Magnum. Both 357 Magnum and 10mm have the unfortunate tendency to be loaded much lighter than their cartridges have the potential for. Underwood and Buffalo Bore are some of the only companies that really put out ammo in 10mm that realizes the potential of the cartridge.

As far as recoil, yes it is going to be more stout than you're probably used to if you've been shooting 9, 40, and 45. Personally, I've had my idea of what recoil is readjusted by some very large rifle calibers, and my own Smith & Wesson 460 XVR revolver, which chucks a 360 grain 45 caliber bullet at 1900 fps, which I confirmed over a chrono. Recoil is relative. If you can handle it, you'll be fine. It's probably not going to hurt you unless you're limp-wristing a 9 or 40. What'll help is getting yourself a nice heavy gun like a 1911, which will help absorb a lot of recoil.

If you're insistent on a Glock, I recommend going to a range where you can rent one, or borrow one from someone. First thing you do is put one round in the magazine. Fire that one, then make sure the trigger clicks once that round has been fired. If it doesn't seem like the trigger reset, that means you actually pulled the trigger twice, and would have fired the second round into the roof. You may laugh, but I see this this more often than I should with heavy calibers and people who aren't used to recoil. This is especially true in new shooters. And a if you think a nice heavy trigger pull will save you, you're mistaken The S&W 500 revolver has a 12-16 lb trigger pull in DA, and a woman was recently killed when the recoil caused her to double tap while at the same time the muzzle rise was so great that she shot herself in the head.

Stop worrying about how you look, and start worrying about how you play. Get out on the field and play paintball the best you can, not stand at home in front of a mirror trying to figure out if your jersey matches your eyes.

Smith&Wesson M&P15-TS, 14.5" barrel and Troy Alpha battle rail. Magpul MBUS-Pro sights, MOE stock, MOE grip, ASAP, BAD, RVG, and plenty of PMAGs. Outfitted with a Haley-Strategic Thorntial SBR with a Streamlight PolyTAC LED, and just for now until I can afford a decent piece of glass I have my old Simmons 30mm from my Tippmann98 on a simple aluminum riser. Simmons is rifle quality glass, but cheap, poor performing, and heavy.

I'm looking at either an Aimpoint Micro T-1 if I can come into some money or getting a decent quality mimic (Primary Arms comes to mind). Might even go with a Leupold Deltapoint or Trijicon RMR because I like the triangle reticles, and the lighter the better. Then again, I really like the idea of the Trijicon 1.5x ACOG sights.

Plenty of time to decide either way. I'm essentially broke with lots of bills piling up.

It happens to be sitting on a Tactical Tailor "Trauma Pack" in multicam, which is an awesome bag that I practically stole. Got it on trade for about $150 worth of stuff. Tons of cargo room, and literally covered with dividers and inception pockets (pockets within pockets). I've got it kitted out with essentials for hiking, biking, traveling, bargain hunting, or just spending the day out somewhere like the zoo with the family. Water, food, first aid, simple tools, Rite-in-the-Rain and space pen, flashlights, knives, lighter, 550 cord, zip-ties, tape, carabiners, a couple of dry boxes, batteries, change of clothes, towel (that's right, I hitchhike), the essentials...