Look, if you want the actual studies and call the their bluff be my guest. I'm guessing this is something that really isn't a lie. If you need the originals I'm sure you can Google them. It shouldn't be a point on contention in the discussion...

Find it interesting that you're willing to take ESPNs word on this 'report' with no proof, yet when the subject is OSU you're demanding all sorts of proof......

Granted I'm sure that is not your intention, however that is the way its coming across...to me at least.

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August 19th, 2011, 4:58 pm

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: NCAA Could Allow More Scholarships to Schools

I was well aware of that implication when I made the comment actually. But I can sum it up as such:

1) When someone says an "unnamed source" has informed ESPN that there is a possibility someone did X, Y, and Z and they haven't done any digging or gotten any proof... I'm going to question that.2) When someone goes "Look, X has a new car, he probably got a great deal because he is on the team and I'm suspicious" I'm going to question that.3) When someone goes, based on recent studies X seems to be the the factual number for the basis of my argument, I'm not going to question it because there is no sense of lying going on or no basis for it.

They aren't presenting something that inherently sounds like someone is lying or making something up. The other ones did and were found in error as well. There is no shadiness going on in the statement.

The average fair market value of top-tier college football and men's basketball players is over $100,000 each, and the athletes are entitled to at least a portion of that, a new report from an advocacy group argues.

Instead of getting what they're worth, the players receive athletic scholarships that don't cover the full cost of attending school, leaving many of them living below the poverty line, says the report, "The Price of Poverty in Big Time College Sport."

A national college athletes' advocacy group and a sports management professor calculate in the report that if college sports shared their revenues the way pro sports do, the average Football Bowl Subdivision player would be worth $121,000 per year, while the average basketball player at that level would be worth $265,000.

And track and field, golf and swimming scholarships would disappear, because the money raised by the big revenue sports, ie football and basketball, cover the costs of those other programs that lose money or bring in zero revenue.

September 13th, 2011, 7:17 pm

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: NCAA Could Allow More Scholarships to Schools

Maybe they shouldn't be there is they can't bring in enough $$$ to suppor themselves. This is coming from a guy who's college track program was cut at UT and poof goes everyones scholarships.

But if you take a look at what I have ACTUALLY suggested doing, it isn't pay them that money. It is to at least cover the $3-$4k of expenses a year not covered by the scholarship.

But if you take a look at what I have ACTUALLY suggested doing, it isn't pay them that money. It is to at least cover the $3-$4k of expenses a year not covered by the scholarship.

Or we could have these men get a summer job and earn the money needed to cover the expenses no covered by a scholarship. I know, it is also un-American to ask these able bodied men to work - think of all the bad lessons we are teaching these guys while in college by having them actually try to make some money to help support themselves.

Again... why when they are busting their but in team practices and working MORE through football than they could at any job. You act as if it is a walk in the park. I have no idea why you guys are so against them getting a better cut of the millions odf dollars they generate for the university. That bit astounds me. Why are you against them getting enough to cover their expenses?

Again... why when they are busting their but in team practices and working MORE through football than they could at any job. You act as if it is a walk in the park. I have no idea why you guys are so against them getting a better cut of the millions odf dollars they generate for the university. That bit astounds me. Why are you against them getting enough to cover their expenses?

So they are practicing in June and July? Oh wait, they are off for the summer. Oh they workout, so do millions of working Americans.

Do they work hard, sure, at a game that is fun. Let them do real work, something the majority of them will have to do as soon as their college days are over. BTW - I don't know how many of you were like me and held multiple jobs while in college, still managed to get and education (and play plenty of sports along the way).

I'm NOT against them getting enough to cover expenses, I'm FOR them earning it and learning a good life lesson.

What lesson are you teaching them, everything you need comes through football. Lets see where that leaves them on the 22nd birthday!

College??? What's that??? Oh yeah, the thing my family couldn't afford at all.Give me a flipping break, these kids are getting FREE schooling, something I personally would've JUMPED at the chance to get.

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September 14th, 2011, 10:11 am

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: NCAA Could Allow More Scholarships to Schools

Guys, it isn't our job or the NCAA job to teach this kids all the life lessons that they should learn. My parents couldn't pay for my college, I am still paying it off along with my wifes.

The point is that they earned it, that is the point here. Cover their expenses, all of it, and move on. I don't if you guys want to throw out red herrings and talk about what your family could or couldn't afford. It is irrelevent. These kids are bringing in through their actions MORE money than most proffessors for their college. They should have covered their expenses for the year to go to that school. It is responcable, it is right, why fight it? Because you didn't the same opportunity? Because you think they should learn a life lesson?

Guys, it isn't our job or the NCAA job to teach this kids all the life lessons that they should learn. My parents couldn't pay for my college, I am still paying it off along with my wifes.

The point is that they earned it, that is the point here. Cover their expenses, all of it, and move on. I don't if you guys want to throw out red herrings and talk about what your family could or couldn't afford. It is irrelevent. These kids are bringing in through their actions MORE money than most proffessors for their college. They should have covered their expenses for the year to go to that school. It is responcable, it is right, why fight it? Because you didn't the same opportunity? Because you think they should learn a life lesson?

That isn't the place for the NCAA to do.

It sounds like on one hand you're advocating for paying student athletes, while on the other to update the scholarship amounts. Which is it?

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September 14th, 2011, 1:54 pm

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: NCAA Could Allow More Scholarships to Schools

I'm sharing data and information that shows the value of the players. IMO, if the NCAA thinks that they want to continue to stay "amature status" for their sports, then they should. BUT based on this information and data, I think it is clear that you can modify the rules (since they have all the power to do so) to make the environment the players are in appropriate to foster that. To do that, clearly leaving the players hanging by a couple thousand dollars a year leaves open a need which the players have to fill somehow. Some take out a loan, some take parent's money, some get a job, some "find it." None of those options sound very good and could EASILY be filled by realizing the players benefit to the school and making sure that they have enough spending money to reasonably cover their time there.

This is NO DIFFERENT than the approach some schools take when bringing in PHD studentd and other "employees" where they pay them to go to school and get their PHD while working as a teaching assistant or associate professor. All I am suggesting is that someone who brings huge value to the school should be covered financially while in school to live without taking 2nd jobs. They bring the value to the school, why not cover the extra $3-$4k to reduce the temptation to take money outside?

You are reading into what I am saying. I am using the data fromm these studies (their worth and their expense vs scholarship delta) and suggesting that there is a clear business case and gap that can be covered with that business case. The violations would even go down if the students could see their bills covered. Forget this "teach them a life lesson by making them get a job for two months" nonsense. Just cover the players reasonable expenses so they have less of a reason to get free stuff.

Guys, it isn't our job or the NCAA job to teach this kids all the life lessons that they should learn. My parents couldn't pay for my college, I am still paying it off along with my wifes.

No, life lessons are learned as part of the college experience and dare I say work should be part of that experience.

steensn wrote:

The point is that they earned it, that is the point here. Cover their expenses, all of it, and move on. I don't if you guys want to throw out red herrings and talk about what your family could or couldn't afford. It is irrelevent. These kids are bringing in through their actions MORE money than most proffessors for their college. They should have covered their expenses for the year to go to that school. It is responcable, it is right, why fight it? Because you didn't the same opportunity? Because you think they should learn a life lesson?

I played sports in high school with kids who went to play for colleges, I even had a friend I played on the same high school team who made it all the way to the majors (played for the Tigers for awhile). Honestly, from what I saw they didn't work any harder then the rest of us. In fact, I would say they didn't work as hard since things came much more naturally to them. Honestly few if any of them have done real well since joining the "real" world, part of this may be due to the fact that they joined the "real" world a lot later than the rest of us.

steensn wrote:

That isn't the place for the NCAA to do.

I agree with this from the opposite side, this isn't the place for the NCAA to pay athletes. If it was such hard work and not worth the rewards then these kids would choose different options. Fact is, they are given a great free education to play a game. But that still isn't enough for you I guess.

Does anyone else find it funny that steensn doesn't think it is fair that college football players aren't paid and get what they earn but supports the bowl system?

1) Unless their is a course they sign up for, they shouldn't be expected to learn it.

2) I'm not saying ALL college athletes, just the ones that are at risk to make mistakes because their value is more then their compensation. No one is going to offer most of those kids anything, their benefit is much much less than what they get in return. I am specifically talking about kids who's value is more than their compensation. The value of these football players and basketball players (even the backups) is more than their compensation.

Once they have need financially (as they aren't covering all their cost) they then have a need that can be filled and people will try because they are "worth it."

3) I have NOT said one dang thing about pay for play, it's about covering their expenses while they provide more benefit to the school than what they recieve. It's simple... they get an education but have to put in a lot of time for that. They ALREADY get money back to help pay for rent and food, all I am suggesting is to cover all of that cost not just part. PLEASE stop making asinine comments I am not making. We are talking about doing what they do for grad students, non-student atheletes, etc. Why do athletes get restricted more?

If some of them don't take advantage of their education when in the "real world" like a kid who's parents pay for anything... that is NOT something we should force each one to learn. It isn't the schools responcability. It IS the school's responcability to follow the NCAA rules and those rules have created a need for the student athlete.

4) You are assuming that the playoff system is fair, which is isn't either.

1) Unless their is a course they sign up for, they shouldn't be expected to learn it.

2) I'm not saying ALL college athletes, just the ones that are at risk to make mistakes because their value is more then their compensation. No one is going to offer most of those kids anything, their benefit is much much less than what they get in return. I am specifically talking about kids who's value is more than their compensation. The value of these football players and basketball players (even the backups) is more than their compensation.

Once they have need financially (as they aren't covering all their cost) they then have a need that can be filled and people will try because they are "worth it."

3) I have NOT said one dang thing about pay for play, it's about covering their expenses while they provide more benefit to the school than what they recieve. It's simple... they get an education but have to put in a lot of time for that. They ALREADY get money back to help pay for rent and food, all I am suggesting is to cover all of that cost not just part. PLEASE stop making asinine comments I am not making. We are talking about doing what they do for grad students, non-student atheletes, etc. Why do athletes get restricted more?

If some of them don't take advantage of their education when in the "real world" like a kid who's parents pay for anything... that is NOT something we should force each one to learn. It isn't the schools responcability. It IS the school's responcability to follow the NCAA rules and those rules have created a need for the student athlete.

4) You are assuming that the playoff system is fair, which is isn't either.

Quick question: Why do these kids (or any college student) NEED to pay rent? Shouldn't they be living on campus in the dorms? Which, if I understand correctly, should/would be included in the Scholarship.