Professor T 2,229

Sorry Israel supporters, but the Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube accounts of Israeli Deputy Premier Silvan Shalom have been hacked and filled with pro-Palestine status updates. ZCompanyHackingCrew claimed responsibility for this latest act of cyber war against Israel. This is part of the Anonymous attacks.. You'll have to check out the status updates in the link, some of the language is a bit too fresh. This is pretty embarracing for such a high ranking official..

Unbalanced due to the agreement not addressing the end of rocket fire. “The draft press statement failed to address the root cause of the current escalation – the continuing barrage of rocket attacks from Gaza against Israel,''

If Israel stops shooting before the missiles are gone it will be a matter of weeks before it all starts again. So yeah, unbalanced. Egypt is trying to be guarantor of a peace but Israel doesn't trust the MB to be there - they want the US to be the guarantor.

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WHO U KIDDIN 338

The Media War, aside from the bombs and missiles, is targeting the Freedom of information in this conflict. Information, truthes, these are just as important as the lives being lost in my opinion because without the truth about what has occured so far and what is occuring as we follow this will only cloud peoples judgement in the future.. The Hearts and Minds campaign going on around ther world is costing lives..

Israel is playing the "We are justified because we are being targeted and we are suffering" game..

Hamas is playing the "We are justified because we are being suppressed and our civilians are being targeted" game..

The propaganda war raging on the Airwaves and the Web and on your TV at home is distracting people from the fact that neither side of the conflict are justified in what they are doing, and keeping the world divided in the "Who is Justified" game only serves to perlong the suffering of both sides because it distracts the world from the real issue right now which is attaining a ceasefire.

"Who is Justified"...Quite true Prof, two wrongs don't make a right.

Perhaps this dysfunctional way of thinking is just normal for people raised in the major Abrahamic religions. I experienced it being raised as a Catholic and taught by the lovely Irish nuns TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER, AS I HAVE LOVED YOU, yet at the same time I was also taught about the church's concept of a 'JUST WAR', a treatise that I could never accept. The idea of killing no matter what the reason just seemed so contradictory to what I had learn about Christ, the man of peace.

I too wish that this mindless bloodbath stop, but unfortunately the Zionist and Islamic fanatics on either side of the fence continue upping the ante and may just decide to go for it all.

It is obvious that Netanyahu is using this event to consolidate power and present himself as the savior from the Palestinian menace in the upcoming January elections. But as to how far is he willing to take this 'action' I believe may depends on his Arabic and Muslim neighbors reactions to his military moves on the Palestinians. I pray Netanyahu will not raise the stakes higher and fold his cards, and agree to a sensible ceasefire.

But if he attempts to crush Hamas and brutally punish the Palestinian population that supports the guerrillas, which is what many of the Zionist extremists are calling for (check my earlier post in "A Gaza invasion leads us where?"), then how would the Arab and Muslim world react? Will they allow a Gaza Holocaust or will they rush in defense of their Palestinian brothers?

Sorry Israel supporters, but the Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube accounts of Israeli Deputy Premier Silvan Shalom have been hacked and filled with pro-Palestine status updates. ZCompanyHackingCrew claimed responsibility for this latest act of cyber war against Israel. This is part of the Anonymous attacks.. You'll have to check out the status updates in the link, some of the language is a bit too fresh. This is pretty embarracing for such a high ranking official..

Not let the Israelis fight like the cowards that they are with odds heavily stacked on their side, defending the land they stole from people living in there for generations. While we refused equivalent firepower to those trying to get back what was stolen from them.

With such uneven odds, no Israelis will ever want true peace when they can bomb and shell the innocents to keep what they had stolen.

it kind of demonstrates what goes around comes around.. opression breeds resistence..

And the Israeli side will tell you that all they want is to live on the land in peace. So "oppression" is a loaded term in that place. The lunacy that IS this conflict is that the world is actually helpless to stop it and must bring pressure on the only rational party to the conflict - Israel - because the Palestinian side will not, CANNOT, make peace. For them to make peace renders the PA and Hamas impotent. On the other side, any pol who actually brought peace to Israel without giving up Jerusalem would be hailed a hero by 80% or more of the population. This conflict will probably fade again, probably, but it cannot be solved until one side or the other actually wins through to dominance. I know this sounds harsh - maybe even like warmongering, but it's just the truth of the personalities on the ground. I've watched it unfold with my own eyes for about 40 years now and the pattern is unmistakeable. If a ground invasion begins then Egypt might intercede on Hamas' behalf. From there it would probably very quickly become an all out brutal, fight 'til the last dog dies conflict. Hussein of Jordan is beginning to really struggle with elements of the Muslim Brotherhood so he might have to jump in to save his monarchy. It's amazing how much things have stayed the same politically since the '67 war. From my reading of Israel's military capabilities I sense that the only thing that stops them from casting absolute ruin on their enemies is the desire for a future chance of peace. That and the awful cost in lives of their own sons and daughters. Ironically, if Israel is pushed or stumbles into a broader war then it will actually free them to be much more...err..efficient in their use of their power - much less restrained. The world would howl in anger but the world is always howling in anger at them so no news there. Danger ahead whether a ceasefire holds or not.
Edited November 21, 2012 by and then

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docyabut2 2,850

In an attempt to persuade the world that Israel is committing war crimes and to distract attention away from the illegal and immoral use of their own population as human shields, Hamas has resorted to staging a number of fake deaths and scenes of severely injured people right in front of international TV crews.

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Mr.United_Nations 2,598

In an attempt to persuade the world that Israel is committing war crimes and to distract attention away from the illegal and immoral use of their own population as human shields, Hamas has resorted to staging a number of fake deaths and scenes of severely injured people right in front of international TV crews.

Hmm must have gone up. Anyway "A Lebanese TV channel affiliated with Hezbollah says the "Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed the attack" on a bus in Tel Aviv. The report, broadcast on Al-Manar TV at 1250 GMT, did not elaborate."

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ExpandMyMind 3,723

The same way that lots of people celebrate in Tel Aviv every time a bomb land on schools in Gaza.

The people in Tel Aviv cheered and clapped with each phosphorus shell exploding on the people they stole their land from.

Do you cheer and rejoice with those people in Tel Aviv?

You all have plenty to cheer about.

Excuse me if I do not care to join in.

While, after all of the civilian deaths in Gaza from this latest conflict, I can understand why a people as desperate as the people of Gaza would resort to such tactics, there can be no justification for blowing up a bomb in a civilian population centre. No one at all can morally sit back and say they are OK with this sort of tactic, regardless of whether or not they consider it to be a retaliation.

Rockets that are rarely responsible for any deaths are one thing, bombings like the aforementioned one are another.

Now I hold no reservations in stating that both sides in this current conflict are acting disgustingly.

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ExpandMyMind 3,723

Israel can't give the land back to the "Palestinians" because these people have NEVER had a country of their own. "Palestine" is a geographical entity not a political one.

Israel occupies what used to be British land - the British Mandate of Palestine, which was created by the British in 1920. In turn, the British Mandate of Palestine once belonged to Ottoman Syria but it became British after the British Empire defeated the Ottoman Empire in the Great War.

Israel isn't the only country that was formed out of the British Mandate for Palestine in 1948. Jordan was, too.

Also, Israel isn't the only country which was formed out of Ottoman Syria. So, too, were Gaza, the Palestinian Authority, Jordan, Lebanon, parts of Turkey and Iraq, and modern Syria.

So if the Israelis have to give back their land it won't be to the mythical "Palestinians". It would be given back to the British, as it was British land before Israel was established. And if the Israelis give their land back to the British - which I don't want Israel to do because I like the Israelis and their country and support its right to exist - then I would also demand the Jordanians give their land back to the British due to the undeniable fact that, like Israel, Jordan also occupies territory which was once the British Mandate for Palestine.

Your knowledge of this subject is weak or simply biased. The land was always to be given to the Palestinians with a 'national home' to be provided for emigrating Jews. Read the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine, the White Papers, the Royal Commission... If you did you would see clearly that the land was to be given back to the indigenous population; the Palestinians.

Until you bother your **** to read them, don't bother replying to this post, for it would be redundant.

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Corp 1,421

While, after all of the civilian deaths in Gaza from this latest conflict, I can understand why a people as desperate as the people of Gaza would resort to such tactics, there can be no justification for blowing up a bomb in a civilian population centre. No one at all can morally sit back and say they are OK with this sort of tactic, regardless of whether or not they consider it to be a retaliation.

Rockets that are rarely responsible for any deaths are one thing, bombings like the aforementioned one are another.

Now I hold no reservations in stating that both sides in this current conflict are acting disgustingly.

The people in Gaza need to take a page out of the West Bank's book, ie ditch the terrorism for diplomacy. They'd get a lot more support and I believe in the end would reach their goals quicker. Then Israel would have no excuse for their heavy handed tactics.

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ExpandMyMind 3,723

They are there to kill. Fear is the byproduct of said killing. If you wanted to spread fear, there are much more effective ways. Tell them you will engage on a campaign of suicide bombings for instance.

Hamas have actually stated that the goal of the rockets is primarily to show resistance and to spread fear throughout Israelis the way Israel does in Occupied Territories. Simply stating that you are going to blow up suicide bombs is in no way a more effective method of spreading fear than firing rockets that so often they impact the everyday lives of citizens.

The killing is a bonus and a secondary objective, according to Hamas.

Let me guess. You say that they aren't for killing and then say they hadn't killed anyone in three years. Either way, you're still wrong.

Sorry, I apologise. I read recently there had been no deaths in 3 years. According to Wiki that figure is wrong, there had been 8.

And I didn't say there aren't for killing. I stated that killing was not their primary desired effect. Spreading fear and terror was.

With the intention of actually physically occupying Germany. They didn't pull all their troops out and then shelled Germany whenever something they didn't approve of happened. The Allies had troops in there, boots on the ground. You know, an actual occupation?

The definition was given with regards to German occupation. It was stated that because Germany still controlled the land, sea and air and the movement of the people of the country, they still technically occupied them.

This doesn't matter anyway. The Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank are one people, therefore if one is occupied, they are all, by definition, an occupied people. It's like Norway invading northern Scotland then someone trying to claim that only half of the Scottish would be occupied. Scotland as a whole would still be referred to as being an occupied country and an occupied people.

There are many reasons for Gaza to still be defined as occupied.

That's not the point. You've previously said in the past and justified it that a bomb in a cafe would be a legitimate military target because of the fact that despite the presence of civilians, one of the people there "might" be in the military.

This is yet another example of you not being able to interpret the written word. I have NEVER said that. What I have said - and please do try to keep up - is this:

With regards to Israel targeting homes of Hamas leaders and such, I stated that by applying the same logic and reasons given to defend such actions (that it is alright for Israel to target these building, killing civilians, so they can kill a Hamas leader) to Hamas, then it is alright for Hamas to blow up a bomb in a cafe to kill a military officer.

I used the analogy merely as a tool to show how weak the argument from Israel is. I reversed the situations to show just how immoral it is to use this method of killing, and the excuses given. Feel free to do a forum search and you will see clearly that all I was doing was applying the same faulty logic to show the flaws in that reasoning.

Again, I have never said it is alright to blow up bombs in cafes, no matter the reason given.

The current administration would be. Israel as an entity? No. An entity cannot be a terrorist. Individuals and groups can be terrorists.

An entity? What are you talking about? I was referring, obviously, to the Israeli government.

And as I said, the current administration would be.

In your opinion they would be, but by definition, they are not.

Ever heard of the word "state terrorism"? Just because you are a government doesn't mean you can support or authorise acts of terrorism. They wouldn't be terrorist organisations in the same breadth as Hezbollah or the IRA or ETA, but they would still have committed an act of terrorism and therefore that administration that authorised said acts would be classified as terrorists. Fact is, a state is just as likely to sponsor or conduct an act of terrorism to achieve its own ends than a smaller group. You only to have to look as far back as the Rainbow Warrior to see this.

But you see, using the definition of terrorism means that they cannot be defined as such. If they could be, every British, Israeli and American government that has ever existed, would be defined as terrorists.

The only difference is, Israel is an internationally recognised state and it's government is a representative (until the next elections) of the Israeli people. Hamas is recognised by few countries but no one recognises it as the legitimate government of Palestine.

No one recognises it as the legitimate government of Palestine? They won a free and fair election for all the World to witness. They are recognised as the legitimate government of the Palestinians, almost worldwide (the U.S., "the EU" and Israel do not recognise them).