Many people cannot handle polyquats. And some people's hair is sensitive to herbs/florals. However, I think you're best to wait and see what Corrina has to say

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy

Hmm, Maddy is right that some people do have issues with certain polyquats (polyquats 4 and 10 tend to be the most problematic). I've read that they feel something like a buildup type of feeling to their hair. I also noticed propylene glycol, which is another humectant like glycerin (it's farther down in the ingredient list, so I would be less likely to think this is the problem ingredient for you, but I can't say absolutely). It's sometimes difficult for me to identify problem ingredients (aside from the really obvious) because I've never had to sleuth them out for my own hair. You might want to spend some time searching the Curl Chemist articles- that's where I've found the majority of my info, and she might go into more detail and offer some additional insight.

Ugg, sorry you're having such a tough time finding something that works. I wonder it it just didn't agree with another product you were using. Also, have you considered your water might be making your hair feel dry and brittle? How hard is the water in your area? Do you use a shower filter?

That MHC product is definitely not protein free. The glycine soja is soy protein and I believe seawood is also protein, but not positive about that.

Jusduit, I used the HEBE with KCKT - and that's generally a safe one, no? All I know was that it got so bad, I had to wash it out and I left in the Olive you and so far it's fine? I think I do better with natural proteins - well see though if it gets tangled int he shower - that will be the sign.

But my water is pretty hard - my pots get mineral build up, etc.

I tried a softener once and my hair turned to mushy seaweed like I could never get it cleaned; it was the weirdest thing? Maybe I should try that again??

3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate (don't ask me to pronounce that!)

Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!

I have no problems using the KCKT with HEBE. A shower filter doesn't make the water soft, it just filters out certain chemicals and minerals depending on what filter you get. This is the shower filter we have and I think the refills are about $10, if I recall correctly. It mainly filters out chlorine but I can tell a difference in my hair (and skin). I'd love to get one that filters out some minerals but for now, I just poo once every week or two and I can tell a big difference even though the products I use supposedly don't build up. I actually think even conditioner builds up a teensy tiny bit. The shampoo I currently use has cocamidopropyl betaine but I'd like to find one a with a gentler cleanser that will also remove hard water buildup.

May I ask what you use the AOMM for? Is it for curl enhancement or more of a gel for hold? I can't recall if I every tried it or not. I'll have to check out the ingredients.

Hmm... super busy here - will try to post that pick soon and highlights of my convo with MaryPat from livefree/curly -

But today I got very uncreative and used Rehab as a LI

I think I'm getting Oc'd - between the smoothing yesterday and the Rehab today as LIs, my hair is starting to get a little "mushy" -

I'm really still afraid to use protein but maybe I should either back off moisture or add protein?

Originally Posted by LilaGirl

I love the CJ Smoothing Leave-in but you only need a very small amount (I use about 1/2 a dime size for my whole head). Maybe you used too much?

I'm scared of protein too but I know I do need some occasionally. I don't ever do a protein treatment for very long or with heat. When my hair begins to get a little soft and limp, I will either use the GVP Joico KPak in the shower and rinse it out after about 3 minutes (sometimes less) or when I feel I need a little shot of protein, I will occasionally rotate a product which has protein such as:

I used to rotate the CJ Argan Oil Conditioner but the skin on my shoulders reacts badly to it so I don't use it any more.

Basically, you can rotate anything in your product graveyard that your hair likes, as long as you don't use it every day. It's a way to get your hit of protein and use products you wouldn't otherwise be able to.

Everyone's different so you'll need to figure out which method and what kind of protein works best for you, but I would start slowly with adding protein back to your routine until you find out how much you can handle.

I have no problems using the KCKT with HEBE. A shower filter doesn't make the water soft, it just filters out certain chemicals and minerals depending on what filter you get. This is the shower filter we have and I think the refills are about $10, if I recall correctly. It mainly filters out chlorine but I can tell a difference in my hair (and skin). I'd love to get one that filters out some minerals but for now, I just poo once every week or two and I can tell a big difference even though the products I use supposedly don't build up. I actually think even conditioner builds up a teensy tiny bit. The shampoo I currently use has cocamidopropyl betaine but I'd like to find one a with a gentler cleanser that will also remove hard water buildup.

May I ask what you use the AOMM for? Is it for curl enhancement or more of a gel for hold? I can't recall if I every tried it or not. I'll have to check out the ingredients.

Originally Posted by Jusduit

I just had AOMM on hand.

SO use a shower filter just to filter chlorine? Do you know one to get for the rest - at least minerals? I'll try it.

3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate (don't ask me to pronounce that!)

Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!

Hmm... super busy here - will try to post that pick soon and highlights of my convo with MaryPat from livefree/curly -

But today I got very uncreative and used Rehab as a LI

I think I'm getting Oc'd - between the smoothing yesterday and the Rehab today as LIs, my hair is starting to get a little "mushy" -

I'm really still afraid to use protein but maybe I should either back off moisture or add protein?

Originally Posted by LilaGirl

I love the CJ Smoothing Leave-in but you only need a very small amount (I use about 1/2 a dime size for my whole head). Maybe you used too much?

I'm scared of protein too but I know I do need some occasionally. I don't ever do a protein treatment for very long or with heat. When my hair begins to get a little soft and limp, I will either use the GVP Joico KPak in the shower and rinse it out after about 3 minutes (sometimes less) or when I feel I need a little shot of protein, I will occasionally rotate a product which has protein such as:

I used to rotate the CJ Argan Oil Conditioner but the skin on my shoulders reacts badly to it so I don't use it any more.

Basically, you can rotate anything in your product graveyard that your hair likes, as long as you don't use it every day. It's a way to get your hit of protein and use products you wouldn't otherwise be able to.

Everyone's different so you'll need to figure out which method and what kind of protein works best for you, but I would start slowly with adding protein back to your routine until you find out how much you can handle.

Oh and I can't wait to hear what Mary Pat had to say.

Originally Posted by Jusduit

Wait, Rehab has protein????

3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate (don't ask me to pronounce that!)

Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!

Curl Rehab doesn't have the usual "protein", "hydrolyzed", or "amino acids" that are straight up proteins or pieces of a protein, but it does have herbal extracts. Any herbal extracts have trace amounts of protein, because plants contain a bit of protein. So, they can act like proteins for people whose hair is protein sensitive. See here.

Also, if you don't want to shell out for a shower filter yet, you might try rinsing with distilled water first. If that helps, then opt for a shower filter.

Also, if you don't want to shell out for a shower filter yet, you might try rinsing with distilled water first. If that helps, then opt for a shower filter.

Originally Posted by Geek_Chic

I forgot about rinsing with distilled water! Before I figured out that coloring was trashing my hair, I started rinsing with distilled water as my final rinse. it helped and I'm not really sure why since we don't have hard water, but it definitely did make a difference.

Curl Rehab doesn't have the usual "protein", "hydrolyzed", or "amino acids" that are straight up proteins or pieces of a protein, but it does have herbal extracts. Any herbal extracts have trace amounts of protein, because plants contain a bit of protein. So, they can act like proteins for people whose hair is protein sensitive. See here.

Also, if you don't want to shell out for a shower filter yet, you might try rinsing with distilled water first. If that helps, then opt for a shower filter.

Originally Posted by Geek_Chic

This.

There are a lot of threads about water filters, if you do a search. The only showerhead water softener I recall reading about was something called a ShowerStick but most of the threads are about water filters (chlorine). I prefer to use a shower filter and an occasional sulfate poo, while others prefer to use a clarifying conditioner or low poo (sulfate free) with EDTA (or other chelating ingredient) to help remove the build up from hard water.

ETA: Thanks for posting the highlights of your conversation with Mary Pat. I hope the coconut curlada continues to work well for you!