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Joe, Tim, Ann, Jan and Miss P. Thanks so very much for sticking to this "suggestion" and seeing it through to the end. Yes, I will stick to my promise of returning to these fora, and will check in more often to see how things are going. Recently my life has been full, and has little time for the internet, but I can surely make space for a truly focused and moderated Long Term Survivor Forum.

Just thanks, and I look forward to the new changes to take effect.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I'm not a LTS either but I would like to join the ranks and say thank you to Ann and Tim as well, I'm glad it's over and the LTS now have a place of their own..and a well deserved one...and yes, I'm sending a few of these to Ann and Tim as well...

I'd also like to thank the mods for their understanding and empathy for the LTS forum. Their realization that for many of us, the LTS forum is an important and emotional outlet. More importantly, I would like to thank all the LTS who shared their feelings, raw, reasoned or otherwise. You made the difference.

I do have to admit I had to chuckle a couple of times when we forced poor Jan's knickers into a twist.

I have been following this topic everyday and I'm happy at the direction its going in .

I would like to acknowledge and thank everyone who participated in making these changes . Your effort will make LTS forum a better experience for members like me who just cant handle some of the conflicts that go on and stick up for themselves as well as we used to . I do appreciate it . Jeff .

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

As far as I'm aware, we're just waiting on Joe. Once he posts, we'll just have to tweak it (if need be) and I'll go and edit the current post.

thanks I was waiting to see Joe's repost too, and figured there'd still be some minor "quibbling" about it to work out the final language; but everyone was high-fiving like it was already a fait accomplis, so I thought I had missed something.

thanks I was waiting to see Joe's repost too, and figured there'd still be some minor "quibbling" about it to work out the final language; but everyone was high-fiving like it was already a fait accomplis, so I thought I had missed something.

Leatherman...any particular reason why you continue to quote me and/or use my words out of context in your posts?.

Joes orginal post has been revised since 11/23.

You all will get no further quibbling from me. In fact, you all are parading around here like there was just some significant win on your part.

In fact, the only two differences I see is the definition of LTS has been expanded to be more inclusive (which I bleieve most of you were against), and there has been a clear statement added regarding posting being limited to only LTS. Although the original welcome thread advised all were welcome to post, you still admonished and reported those who posted and were not LTS (not that this happened often, anyways, based on your own admission). And likewise, these posters were reminded for the reason of the LTS forum. So basically, very little changes here.

Some have questioned why I have never posted in the LTS forum before this if I consider myself a LTS. As a LTS I admit I have never posted here in the past, nor will I in the future, unless I have a strong view about a particular topic. However, when you ask for an opinion, and attempt to define a term which is to describe an entire segment of the HIV population, one has to expect opposing views. Keep in mind, I rarely post in the "living with" section either. This surely doesn't mean I'm NOT "living with" HIV, does it?

Once again I would like to thank Tim Horn for instituting this major change for the LTS forum. The vast majority of LTS members concur and that's all that really matters. No need to parade around stomping on sour grapes.

unless Joe has gone back a week later and re-edited the very first post of this thread which would not only be rude but confusing, I, and others, were under the impression that we were still waiting to see the final proposal for the welcome. That's why I was a little confused at everyone's thanks and congrats on the end of this discussion. What msg # would that be where we saw the new welcome? The welcome thread itself hasn't been modified since "April 10, 2007, 09:26:16 am ", but maybe my browser just isn't working right. Oh well, who am I too quibble with what has obviously been decided.

Leatherman...any particular reason why you continue to quote me and/or use my words out of context in your posts?.

and speaking of "quibble" which I used as I figured there might be a little bit of refining done to whatever Joe posted before it became "official" knowing people around here like I do , what other words you have have sole dominion over so I don't accidentally use any of yours? I mean that was your original complaint, wasn't it? That people were "quibbling" over the definition? Why don't you just PM your list of words that I shouldn't use rather than clutter up this thread anymore.

Tim Horn posted on November 26 to say the proposed revision could go ahead, and he asked Joe for a re-write. The changes Joe made to his post in the 23rd have nothing to do with this request for a re-write.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

The following is the REVISED LTS Forum Welcome Thread, incorporating changes as requested.

REVISED LTS Forum Welcome Thread

This forum is a safe place for Long Term Survivors (LTS) who are defined as those who tested HIV positive, before the advent of HAART, in 1996. This forum is a result of LTS members, asking for a place to discuss issues, that are unique to those who lived thought the initial decades of HIV. The forum is meant as a place, where LTS can discuss issues, such as extensive ARV use, long-term side effects and a long history of bereavement, which are all examples of long-term HIV/AIDS survival, but not necessarily requirements for LTS Forum participation. Many LTS issues, are not the same as those faced by newly infected members and this forum is a place for all LTS members, to discuss those issues that are relevant to their segment of the HIV community.

We imagine that the information contained in this forum, will be very informative and all members are encouraged to read the forums. However, given the special needs of this forum, as a unique place for LTS members, we ask that ONLY LTS MEMBERS post in this forum. If you find a topic of interest, please consider creating a new post, in another forum, inviting LTS members to comment.

unless Joe has gone back a week later and re-edited the very first post of this thread which would not only be rude but confusing, I, and others, were under the impression that we were still waiting to see the final proposal for the welcome. That's why I was a little confused at everyone's thanks and congrats on the end of this discussion. What msg # would that be where we saw the new welcome? The welcome thread itself hasn't been modified since "April 10, 2007, 09:26:16 am ", but maybe my browser just isn't working right. Oh well, who am I too quibble with what has obviously been decided. and speaking of "quibble" which I used as I figured there might be a little bit of refining done to whatever Joe posted before it became "official" knowing people around here like I do , what other words you have have sole dominion over so I don't accidentally use any of yours? I mean that was your original complaint, wasn't it? That people were "quibbling" over the definition? Why don't you just PM your list of words that I shouldn't use rather than clutter up this thread anymore.

You know damn well why you used that particular word, and it was for no other reason than to get arise out of me. If it was for any other reason it wouldn't have been encased with quotation marks.

Please don't trick yourself into believing you "know" people here. Especially since you never them in person.

Rather than send you a list of words you shouldn't use, I sent you two words you can feel free to quote from me all you want!

Tim Horn posted on November 26 to say the proposed revision could go ahead, and he asked Joe for a re-write. The changes Joe made to his post in the 23rd have nothing to do with this request for a re-write.

Ann

My apologies. You are correct. I guess because there was very little difference between what is current and what was proposed, I missed it.

Another insightful comment from the popular Miss P. You do realize that commenting within almost every thread or replying to almost every post does not make one an authority on every topic? It actually wreaks of...well, I'll just leave that opinion to myself.

With all due respect: GET THE HELL OUT OF MY THREAD. This is a serious topic and your bickering is beyond annoying. We know your opinion about the definition of LTS, as well as your attitude toward many fellow members. I am over it and so is everybody else. This thread is to discuss the revision of the introduction thread and if you don't have anything constructive to add, then please don't say anything.

I tried to explain to you that you would get a TO if you insisted in posting in this thread, as Andy said there have been a few reports so we have to act on them now...I'm giving you a 7 day TO hopefully by the end of it the new guide lines will be in place and there will be nothing to argue about then.

Leatherman

Quote

and speaking of "quibble" which I used as I figured there might be a little bit of refining done to whatever Joe posted before it became "official" knowing people around here like I do , what other words you have have sole dominion over so I don't accidentally use any of yours? I mean that was your original complaint, wasn't it? That people were "quibbling" over the definition? Why don't you just PM your list of words that I shouldn't use rather than clutter up this thread anymore.

This is was uncalled for and is considered Flam-baiting as you well know , being a smart arse doesn't help...please consider yourself warned.

I tried to explain to you that you would get a TO if you insisted in posting in this thread, as Andy said there have been a few reports so we have to act on them now...I'm giving you a 7 day TO hopefully by the end of it the new guide lines will be in place and there will be nothing to argue about then.

Leatherman

This is was uncalled for and is considered Flam-baiting as you well know , being a smart arse doesn't help...please consider yourself warned.

Jan

I agree with Dennis and will take my TO as well. But don't count me as one who will return to this "Hot Mess" drama ridden WEB site . . .

I'd like to apologize and accept some of the blame for causing part of the ruckus in this thread. (I must be getting too old. I've never heard of a "hot mess" before) I'm sorry if I helped distract from the purpose of this thread. I only hope that some of my other contributions helped people in thinking through this issue about why everyone would like to be known as a "survivor" some day regardless of whether they lived through yrs of AZT or, some day in the future, 10 yrs of Atripla. "Long Term Survivor" sure sounds like a title to covet, but the price to be paid for having that title now can be quite dear indeed.

I have to admit that this time of year has put me more on edge. This is my first Thanksgiving away from OH after 25 yrs - far from the traditions with my OhioFamily. Not to mention, this season, for the 15th year in a row, will be another holiday season without my Randy. Much less, this is only the second Thanksgiving and Christmas without my Jim and my emotions are still running quite high.

As there were so many similarities in their deaths, so were there similarities in the beginnings of my relationships with both men. Randy and I went on our first date in Dec, and just a month later, would call Jan 15th our anniversary. It was on a trip back to see my family in NC at Christmas in 2004, that I took Jim to met my family, and then, not only promised to adhere to my meds for his sake, but made Dec 18th our anniversary.

Of course, I'm grateful to be celebrating Thanksgiving back with my family, without homelessness hanging over my head. I would have never imagined that promise to Jim (to take my meds and stay alive) would have gotten me to where I am today. And that's what being a "long term survivor" means to me (and why I rambled on to explain ) - Living for 17 years, not with HIV but AIDS, still on disability, struggling to get SC to give me meds and food stamps, while my mother has taken me into her home after my second partner has died.

Lordy, lordy. I'll trade being called an LTS to whoever wants it as long I can have Randy or Jim back.

Jan, my intentions (for the most part) were only to stand up for myself. I am very sorry if my words may have driven away any other members as that was never my intention - even when I retaliated to some with snarkiness. Rest assured that I will heed your warning in this and other threads in the future.

Once again Joe, let me say I'm sorry for the dispute I brought into your thread about a serious topic. Thank you for bringing up this issue, and thank you for the effort and time you took to work on this. You forced a tricky concept into a decent definition and I very much like the next welcome thread that you've penned for this forum.

Jan, my intentions (for the most part) were only to stand up for myself. I am very sorry if my words may have driven away any other members as that was never my intention - even when I retaliated to some with snarkiness. Rest assured that I will heed your warning in this and other threads in the future.

This Forum is a safe place for long-term survivors (LTS), defined as people living with HIV who tested positive for the virus before the advent of highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) in 1996. This Forum is a result of LTS members petitioning for a place to discuss issues unique to those who lived with a diagnosis of HIV through the initial decades of AIDS epidemic.

We hope members will use this Forum to discuss experiences unique to long-term HIV survival, including extensive antiretroviral use, long-term side effects and a long history of bereavement. Many aspects of long-term HIV survival are not the same as those faced by members more recently diagnosed with the virus and, thus, this section is being maintained to allow LTS a place to discuss issues that are relevant to their segment of the HIV community.

We imagine that the information contained in this section will be very informative and we encourage all members of the AIDSmeds Forums to read the discussions herein. However, given the creation of this section by and for LTS members, we ask that ONLY LTS MEMBERS post in this forum. Should a non-LTS member find a topic of interest in this section and wish to comment, we encourage creating a new post in another Forum -- i.e., Living With HIV or Questions About Treatment and Side Effects -- inviting LTS members to comment.

Tim, I also like your revision but I would like to request that one further paragraph is added at the bottom:

We would also like to request when LTS members discover a non-LTS member posting here, that rather than responding to them yourselves, you hit the "Report to Moderator" button found in the bottom right-hand corner of that post. If their post has not been acknowledged in the thread, it can simply be removed, and that member contacted privately by a moderator via PM and asked to read the LTS Welcome Thread.

Ann

PS - thank you Joe for taking the time to write the draft. Much appreciated.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

There were only a few members who did that and I'm sure that after this clarification and current thread that they'd cease and desist.

Are you talking about my added paragraph? I'd rather it be included. This way, any newer LTS members would also know the score. New members - days, months, or years down the line - won't necessarily be aware of or read this thread.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Mikie hon, you have nothing to apologize for, your feelings and thoughts of all of your LTS problems are valid, and we've all been there, I for one ,feel your pain as a LTS, with some of the same loss and suffering as you've had, reading your last post brought back a lot of those sad memories for me as well, and YES the holidays are really hard on me as well, but, I somehow get thur it all, were all in this together, and that is what makes us who we are, what doesn't KILL US will always make us stronger than we ever were before

« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 02:49:17 PM by denb45 »

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

what doesn't KILL US will always make us stronger than we ever were before

at the root of it, that's why we are long-term survivors - cause none of it has killed us yet. somedays that's a good thing , and other days, I'm just not so sure.

you want to know my secret for how I get thru it though it all?because it already happened to me once

I was in the hospital with PCP once, so I knew I'd survive pneumonia the second time I was in the hospital. I lost the house Randy and I had because I couldn't afford it on disability; and then I lost the house Jim and I had; but I never went homeless. I lost my car when it finally died since I'm too poor to afford another one; and I lost Jim's car when they repo-ed it because I couldn't keep up on the payments. I lost a long-term partner once and got thru 14 years, so somehow, not to besmirch his memory at all, I'll manage to get through losing a second long-term partner.

Though I have no plans to go to the hospital again, no money to get another car or move to another house, and I'm just too scared to look for another partner (i mean, they do keep dying on me ); I still worry because I've only had one house fire Hopefully, the three burglaries make up that difference. ROFL

It looks as if we're ready to move forward with this revision. Do you have any objections to the edited version I've proposed? And what about Ann's additional paragraph? If you have any additional changes, or are okay with things as they are, just let us know -- we'll post the new intro statement as soon as we receive your nod.

Add the word "the" before AIDS in the last sentence of the first paragraph, as in:

This Forum is a safe place for long-term survivors (LTS), defined as people living with HIV who tested positive for the virus before the advent of highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) in 1996. This Forum is a result of LTS members petitioning for a place to discuss issues unique to those who lived with a diagnosis of HIV through the initial decades of the AIDS epidemic.

And I would remove the words: like to, from the last paragraph, because Moderators do not have to ask for permission to moderate the forums, as you see fit.

We would also like to request, when LTS members discover a non-LTS member posting here, that rather than responding to them yourselves, you hit the "Report to Moderator" button found in the bottom right-hand corner of that post. If their post has not been acknowledged in the thread, it can simply be removed, and that member contacted privately by a moderator via PM and asked to read the LTS Welcome Thread.

Otherwise, you both did an excellent job and I thank you for your efforts.