God Herself by Geraldine Thorsten--her books is a gold mine of pre-patriarchal information, with extensive footnotes and references to explore further. Asteroid Goddess and Mysteries of the Dark Moon by Demetra George"

Wow, this is great Ellen. Stephanie Austin referenced the matriarchal connections to Saturn too over the summer. I'm going to look for the article.

Hi Wendy,

Yes, I remember that and remember you mentioning it. I remember feeling just blown away by what she wrote - like just scraped away layers of garbage. I'll have to go back and look too as I don't remember the details.

Hi all, Early Greek worship of Hera, similar to those of all of the Greek goddesses, involve some notion of fertility. Sites of Hera worship pre-date those dedicated to Zeus, meaning that worship of her pre-dates that of worship of Zeus.

Welcome to the MB. You're right, the Greek myth of Hera goes back long before Zeus!

When the Romans conquered Greece in the 3rd century BCE, the two cultures mixed, and so too did their gods and goddesses (Roman "Juno" and Greek "Hera").

In the oral tradition of storytelling passed down by poets and minstrels it was said that the Milky Way was formed from Hera's breast milk. As the Queen of Heaven, she was the ultimate protector, nurturer and loving mother figure of women throughout their lives.

Temples were erected in her honor throughout Greece with Argos at Peloponnesus being her main sanctuary. Many Greeks sought the Great Lady's blessings to enrich and protect their lives.

We can see the patriarchal take-over of the nurturing and loving queen Hera through her marriage to Zeus and his subsequent betrayal and violation of her trust.

According to Clarissa Pinkola Estes in the book Women Who Runs with The Wolves the Sedna myth is a Life/Death/Life myth.

The LIfe/ Death/ Life nature is an deep inner knowing of the natural cycles of something coming in to being and then something ending.... and then something coming into being again. Sedna wants us to be in touch with her via our emotional selves, for us to be able to abide with her at the deepest level, in loss and creation, to trust this cycle. The distortion of patriarchy is the attempt to control this cycle mostly out of fear of death (all forms of death: body, ego, etc), not seeing that life emerges naturally after death too. I'm not sure how this fits astrologically but it felt relevant to our exploration of the archetype.

Thanks for passing on what you found regarding Estes' thoughts on Sedna. This is very similar to Rad's interpretation of the Sedna discovery chart:

Rad's quote:In essence, if the patriarchal distortion to reality continues, the violations to natural laws as a result, then this would suggest and symbolize, to me, the extinction of the human species down the line. We can see in this chart that the core violation to Natural Laws that would equal that possibility being the violation of the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion, versus the patriarchal perversion which became self interest and exclusion.

The Greek/Roman myths are so filled with patriarchal distortions, that it is refreshing to read other sources for interpretations and meanings of the asteroids.

Kristin's quote: She is known to be the greatest female warrior. She takes the lead and drives this movement forward. She says "FOLLOW ME". The Amazon has been known to single handedly destroy armies of men in order to defend her people and their rights. In this case she represents fighting for the female race in her attempt to restore the natural balance, specifically restoring the divine right and power of the natural feminine.

Her energy is reflected in Rad's quote below.Rad's quote: The entire need, teaching, message for not only women to return back to their natural natures, but to rebel as fiercely as necessary against all the male dominated conditioning patterns as to what women are 'expected' to be as defined by unnatural men. And then to use themselves, each women, one at a time, to teach not only these unnatural men about what is natural and what is not, but also other women who continue to accept these patriarchal definitions of what a women is, and is not.

The asteroid Amazon was discovered on 22 April 1925 by K. Reinmuth, Heidelberg. The name "Amazone" was proposed by Gustav Stracke in 1925 after the Amazon River.

In Greek mythology "Amazon" is a group or nation of all-female warriors in a region bordering Scythia in Sarmatia (modern territory of Ukraine). Other historiographers place them in Asia Minor, Libya or India.

The mythic all-female warrior society succumbed to the likes of Heracles and Theseus, and symbolised the triumph of Greek civilization over the barbarian.

Greek mythological Amazons were:* Antiope, daughter of Ares, lover of Zeus, she was taken prisoner by Hercules and given in marriage to Theseus.* Penthesilea, Amazon queen, ally of Troy in the Trojan War, she fought against Achilles by whom she was slain.* Hippolyte, Amazon queen, sister of Penthesilea.

Queen Penthesilea at Troy was quoted as saying, "Not in strength are we inferior to men; the same our eyes, our limbs the same; one common light we see, one air we breathe; nor different is the food we eat. What then denied to us hath heaven on man bestowed."

Among Classical Greek tradition, the Amazons had their right breast cut off or burnt out, so they would be able to use a bow more freely and throw spears without the physical limitation and obstruction; there is no indication of such a practice in works of art, in which the Amazons are always represented with both breasts, although the right is frequently covered.

The myths of the Amazons are a significant part of human culture. The Amazon myth was embraced by Greece, and from there spread all over the world. They were the earliest symbols of a society's fear of feminism. They questioned the order of life and rose against it. They would not allow themselves to be treated as less than human.

Historically, Amazons were portrayed as beautiful women in Amazonomachies, an art-form showing battles between the Amazons and Greeks. Amazons were trained to use all weapons and especially in single combat. They were honorable, courageous, brave and represented rebellion against sexism. Their tales spread quickly and soon stories of the Amazons were everywhere, including Africa, Asia, Europe, South America (the Amazon River was named after the female warriors), and North America.

In 1542, Francisco de Orellana reached the Amazon River (Amazonas in Spanish), naming it after a tribe of warlike women he claimed having encountered and fought there. The whole basin and region of the Amazon (Amazonía in Spanish) were named after the river. Medieval traveller John Mandeville wrote: "Beside the land of Chaldea is the land of Amazonia, that is the land of Feminye. And in that real is all woman and no man; not as some may say, that men may not live there, but for because that the women will not suffer no men amongst them to be their sovereigns."

Classicist Peter Walcot wrote, "Wherever the Amazons are located by the Greeks, whether it is somewhere along the Black Sea in the distant north-east, or in Libya in the furthest south, it is always beyond the confines of the civilized world. The Amazons exist outside the range of normal human experience."

She is the wildest of all the goddesses and she rules the 3rd chakra, along with Mars and Pluto. Fight or flight. She operates in her natural form via pure instinct, holding nothing back, and she needs absolute freedom to express herself.

In her most natural form she is totally independent, and self-sustaining, totally complete in and unto herself, aligned with Gaia and goddess and the animal kindom..all of mother nature. She has a keen emotional intelligence like that of an animal.

Her natal placement reflects where a Soul can take the LEAD in their life. Take Joan of Arc for example. She has Amazone in Aries, in the 10th house. A female leading armies of men who was ultimately burned to death - so explicit and all seen in that one symbol.

Currently transiting Amazone is 13 Virgo Which is currently conjunct the North Node of Venus, and here we are talking about her fight for equality, her desire to even the scales in society again.

I have a passage I want to share and will do that when I get a moment..

so I checked out JWG's chart out..and is this a coincidence? - he has natal Amazone at 13 Virgo..so an Amazone return right now as we are talking about the AMAZONE.

Wolf has Amazone in Virgo 13 degrees in the 10th house-

This placement can been seen in his desire to empower women in the EA work and empowering women in the world, and to help them heal the repression. He has a true sensitivity for the downtrodden, the underdog, and the less fortunate Souls and woman's power has been snuffed out for centuries due to patriarchal influence. He mentioned having many lives as a woman, so he knows firsthand those wounds too.

The Amazone placement also reflects his own blending of both genders, the equal mix of the two - the 10th house being a house that reflects the male gender, Amazone placement there -the wild woman, the other side of gender but an archetype that naturally embodies male and female qualities. Her strength when naturally operating is in the coequal balance between the two.He is a Soul who has actualized both sides of gender and so visually looked male/female at the same time, also a reflection of his stage of evolution.

Thanks Kristin for the great info! It was very interesting to learn that Jeff's Amazone is at 13 deg Virgo. T-Pluto in Cap will be trining his Amazone in several years time, during which his teachings to empower and heal women in the world could be heightened. That's certainly happening for myself.

Just reporting that I had a dream a few nights ago in which appeared an Amazone woman (an aspect of my self) - she was VERY tall, about 10 foot, had olive skin, brown hair. At first I was a little frightened, but after a short while she put me at ease because she was actually very friendly.

Pallas

I see from your Radio Show, Kristin, that Demetra George will be joining you very soon to talk about Pallas. I'll put together some research findings, and interested students can listen to the show and contribute their thoughts here as to the "natural undistorted expression" of Pallas.

Thanks for sharing the dream. Of course the Amazone can be so intimidating at first. Her energy and stature is designed for that very reason because she is bred not only to lead but to protect, a powerful Wild Woman, not just because of her size and strength but because of her connection to the animal kingdom. Your awareness is so keen in your realization that the Amazone was an aspect of yourself. There is a warrior in all women in terms of where they initiate their own unique individuality and how they express their nature to the world. Every woman is rooted in a certain chakra ie designed by God/dess with the inherent strength of that chakra and the archetypes reflected in that energy center. But the goal, although rooted in one, is to EMBODY ALL of the goddess archetypes within you. To have all the chakras open, alive and pumping.

For example, the Amazone may be rooted in chakra #3 - pure instinct - but she would need to access the heart - bhakti, to find compassion in certain situations to do the right thing. She may need to come from the heart to make the right decision and this would require that the heart be open as well. She would need her psychic senses to be sharp to sense when there is danger near and this is reflected in the 6th chakra and so on....

"To find the Wild Woman, it is necessary, for women to return to their instinctive lives, their deepest knowing. So let us push on now and remember ourselves back to the Wild Woman Soul. Let us sing her flesh back onto our bones. Shed any false coats we have been given. Don the true coat of powerful instinct and knowing. Infiltrate the psychic lands that once belonged to us. Unfurl the bandages, ready the medicine. Let us return now, wild woman howling, laughing, singing up to The One who loves us so. For us the issue is simple. Without Us , Wild Woman dies, Without Wild Woman, we die.

Para Vida, for true life, we both must live!"

(Excerpt from "Women who run with the Wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estes)

Yes..looking forward now to Palls and the show with Demetra next week.Thanks Linda for all of your efforts and contributions..

Wendy..thanks for that link..not too many natural tribes left. Also feel it is important to remind people that the Amazon does not just come from the Amazon basin but she is an archetype who has been born out of many cultures from Crete, to India to Europe and of course she still exists across the globe today.

***

Thanks also Linda for posting the radio link. We had a wonderful show with Demetra George. Loads of valuable insights on Pallas. Linda, I know you are researching more about Pallas and will soon share but I thought I would add a few thoughts on the heels of this interview with Demetra which is available in the archives for those of you who missed it.

As I mentioned on air what I found most impressive about Pallas is her ability to HOLD HER OWN in a man's world. (unfortunately she was denied her femininity, to operate like a man, in order to maintain her freedom) Demetra shared that when asked who the most important Goddess is in Modern women, she said unequivocally Pallas Athene because while all of the other Greek Goddess as part of the patriarchal insurgence were demoted and demeaned and respectable women locked in their home, Palls had the FREEDOM TO WALK AS AN EQUAL.

I remember Wolf sharing that Pallas rules the Medulla thus connects to PSYCHIC DOWNLOADS and so I checked his chart to see where Pallas landed. For those of you that do not have his data - Dec 2,1946 4:52am, Hollywood,Ca.

His Pallas is 19 Capricorn, which happens to be conjunct his South Node of Pluto in his second house., The ruler is Saturn, which is in his 9th house and is balsamic to his natal Pluto in Leo. This reflect the psychic downloads on all the ENTIRE PLUTO BOOK that came into him, Yukteswar was a Taurus by the way and Wolf's Pallas is in a Taurus house. The ruler being Saturn in Leo, the AUTHORITY, the Father of this knowledge, in the 9th, the work going global, international and having a far reaching impact.This ninth house energy also reflects the teaching of Natural Law and the balsamic conjunction to Pluto reflects the ancient wisdom that it is.His Pluto and Saturn also trines his Sun and South Node, South Node of Uranus and South Node of Venus which re-states pulling natural truths from the past and having all the memories that go with it., South Node of Uranus on his South node. Uranus connects to long term memory.Wolf's Pallas at 19 Cap also sextiles his Moon in Pisces in the 4th reflecting his focus on empowering women and healing the distortions. Pallas sextiles his Venus Rx Scorpio on the other side which restates this need to re-establish Soul balance on Earth and the importance of not denying our essential Soul need for balance and the importance to recover the feminine power.His Mercury, the ruler of his North Node in Gemini, is conjunct that Venus rx and Jupiter - clearly he came her to be a teacher of the Soul..essentially a messenger for God - Jupiter in Scorpio in the 12th.

EA is incredible - I am consistently IN AWE at its precision...What a gift we have been given...thanks Chief!

I have not been able to follow this thread very closely due to time limitations, but I wanted to mention that in the newest issue of The Mountain Astrologer there is an article on Eris. I haven't read it, but it suggests that Xena is the more appropriate archetype for this asteroid. Thought that might be of interest.

Thanks Ellen for passing that on. I cannot get The Mountain Astrologer in my country. If anyone would care to paraphrase the article on Eris/Xena, I'd be grateful, and I'm sure others would be too. Thanks.

I just listened to Demetra and Kristin last night talking about Pallas. Putting together some notes very soon.