So, DC's response to widespread complaints that their films are too dark and unenjoyable is to plan a new spinoff series that's even more grimdark and is actually called DC Dark? I'm sure that makes sense to someone.

Though at least trying to aim for lower budgets is a good move. DC really can't afford to drop $300 million on a movie with uncertain prospects.

Leto is out already? Weren't there news quite recently that'd they'd do a stand-alone film with the Joker and Leto was starring again?

And they've managed to get Joaquin Phoenix? How do they keep getting all these top-shelf actors to a franchise that's basically guaranteed to be trash? Even the public knows these projects are all doomed from the start, you'd think industry insiders like actors would know better.

Must be the money, a fat paycheck is the only sure thing in a superhero movie.

EDIT: Ohhh it's a parallel universe thing, I guess that's one way of trying to reboot this clusterfuck.

Also, that scene in Lost in Translation where the photographer is telling Bill Murray to be "More Mysterious." is all I can think about when I hear they're making a DC Dark/Black

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Sadly, they're calling it DC Dark in order to let everyone know that particular version of the DCEU is going to be more lighthearted. I shit you not. It's not going to be "Dark" like the DCEU is at their current versions.

I think the biggest hurdle for future Star Wars movies will be how they explain Harry's presence in the SW-universe.

They should've reset the whole thing with the change of direction. However, they know that people liked Wonder Wonder and its sequel is a sure way to recoup on their numerous losses from Justice League; scratching all that would be a problem from a business pov I guess.

I haven't watched Wonderwoman, and I probably won't. Justice League was saddening.

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Wonder Woman was actually really good. If they’d just not had any actual villains in the movie it would have been perfect. Hell, the storyline was actually there:
“Diana goes out thinking she can kill one being and stop all war. Turns out Ares is already dead and her quest to stop war is a never ending struggle.” Bam. Movie.

I’ll still probably see that sequel if only to watch Gal Gadot be sexy as hell.

I can never not associate Christian Bale with Batman. Hell, the man’s movie history is filled with those sorts of characters.

Honestly, Chris Nolan hit Batman so fucking out of the park that it’s pretty much impossible to match it, in my opinion. He humanized all of the characters into relatable figures people could viscerally fear (heath’s joker) or aspire to be, which is sort of a running theme for DC comics. As in taking highly unrelatable figures and doing their best to bring them close to home.

Had DC opted to (or been able to, I don’t know the legal situation) use Nolan’s set up as a base, I think they would have been able to make “dark superheroes” not be hilariously cheesy shit on the big screen.

I can never not associate Christian Bale with Batman. Hell, the man’s movie history is filled with those sorts of characters.

Honestly, Chris Nolan hit Batman so fucking out of the park that it’s pretty much impossible to match it, in my opinion. He humanized all of the characters into relatable figures people could viscerally fear (heath’s joker) or aspire to be, which is sort of a running theme for DC comics. As in taking highly unrelatable figures and doing their best to bring them close to home.

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I loved Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy.

That said, I never really felt like his Batman...was really Batman. Bale played an action hero ninja. And I will say he did an excellent job as Bruce Wayne. But that's never been the core of who Batman is. Batman is the detective. He's the thinker. In the Dark Knight trilogy, Bruce had pretty much everyone else do his thinking for him. We never really saw him be The Detective. The closest we've gotten so far has been Afflec and even that has its issues.

If we go with this other route, I really hope they focus in more on Batman's intelligence than his brawn.

You know you're something when you can line up Arthellion, DR, and Vlad [RIP] on the same side ~ Nazgus

Had DC opted to (or been able to, I don’t know the legal situation) use Nolan’s set up as a base, I think they would have been able to make “dark superheroes” not be hilariously cheesy shit on the big screen.

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I think the characters were on point, but Nolan's batman was a story about Batman in a world of unpowered individuals. It ignored the greater lore to setup the larger story of Batman's ascent as a protector of Gotham. It was unpowered villains doing things that makes you think they should have powers, but they really don't.

If they could have pulled the human characteristics of Nolans characters into a super powered world like DC, then they might have been able to be more successful with their gritty, dark atmosphere.

I mean, I honestly like that the movies have a darker bent to them, but at the same time there is such a thing as too much as to be comical. And in this case, that's not a good thing.

Any redeeming aspects they might have had was removed most likely through editing to make the movies more fast paced, action packed hit'em hard type sagas when they really should have worked more on making their characters relatable.

I mean, they have Superman for fuck sake, and even that they can't turn into something decent.

That said, I never really felt like his Batman...was really Batman. Bale played an action hero ninja. And I will say he did an excellent job as Bruce Wayne. But that's never been the core of who Batman is. Batman is the detective. He's the thinker. In the Dark Knight trilogy, Bruce had pretty much everyone else do his thinking for him. We never really saw him be The Detective. The closest we've gotten so far has been Afflec and even that has its issues.

If we go with this other route, I really hope they focus in more on Batman's intelligence than his brawn.

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Focusing on Batman's brains over his brawn is a must when you've got him working alongside superpowered individuals. Or at least, it's how he should be handled. Plenty of writers just go the lazy route of having him somehow managing to trade punches with enemies who are on Superman's or Wonder Woman's level.

Wonder Woman was actually really good. If they’d just not had any actual villains in the movie it would have been perfect. Hell, the storyline was actually there:
“Diana goes out thinking she can kill one being and stop all war. Turns out Ares is already dead and her quest to stop war is a never ending struggle.” Bam. Movie.

I’ll still probably see that sequel if only to watch Gal Gadot be sexy as hell.

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Agreed. Ares being in the movie wasn't really needed, and undermined the whole idea of her going out full of optimism and realizing you can't fix the world that easily. That said, Gal Gadot has the role down well enough that I'd certainly be up for seeing Wonder Woman 2 so long as they have a half-decent plot.

If the sequel has Cheetah I'm pretty hyped for it as long as they get the character right—she's an interesting character when done right, but one the comics have messed up quite a few times. I wish I could say I'm optimistic about the DC films picking the cool version of her (Evil Indiana Jones-esque character empowered by an evil Cheetah God) over the less cool one (Monster catgirl).

WB gives me whiplash. One moment they make a good (not great) addition to one of their biggest franchises and make good money on it (FBAWTFT), the next they're going full retard, full throttle into what's been shown to not work. (DCEU) They love money one year, they hate it next year.

Although, as long as FB movies keep the level FB1 has --or hopefully get better--I don't care about DC. JL was absolutely dreadful.

I quite enjoyed Man of Steel, enough that I wound up seeing it twice in cinemas, although it definitely had it's flaws. I didn't see the theatrical cut of BvS, but did see the extended cut, which was mostly just really, really dull; given that I was expecting a crime against cinema from the backlash to it, I guess that's a positive? Wonder Woman was great fun but tailed off towards the end, while Suicide Squad is the closest I've ever come to walking out of a film. Haven't seen Justice League, might check it out when I can pick it up cheap, or on Netflix or something.

And yet, I'm still willing to believe future installments could be good. Wonder Woman 2 will probably be worth a watch, I might check out Aquaman and the Flash simply out of curiousity (I'm even less familiar with them than I am with Wonder Woman, and I don't know much about her beyond this continuity). I do think they need to address the overall tone of the franchise though, because it seems to be focused far too much on the worst 'gritty' elements; Frank Miller wrote some great Batman stories, but taking so much apparent inspiration from All Star Batman beggars belief. It actually looked like they were doing a decent job of balancing Superman that way, with a grittier origin building him into the character we know and love, and then BvS happened...they don't necessarily need to copy the Marvel, fairly light hearted comic book romp style, but something needs to be done. Fresh vision behind the camera, I think, which worked well for Wonder Woman.

As for DC Dark, when it was originally announced, with Guillermo del Toro doing a supernatural Justice League, I would have been all over it. Now though...

“I am and always will be the optimist. The hoper of far-flung hopes and the dreamer of improbable dreams.” ​

Ares being in the movie wasn't really needed, and undermined the whole idea of her going out full of optimism and realizing you can't fix the world that easily.

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It’s not just Ares, you don’t even need Ms. MyChemicalRomance. WW1 was fucked up enough that a villain making “dangerous” chemicals is pretty par for the course. You could remove her entire character and replace it with a mustard gas stockpile or whatever.

I quite enjoyed Man of Steel, enough that I wound up seeing it twice in cinemas, although it definitely had it's flaws.

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Yeah, it was at least an interesting new take on Superman, despite the flaws. I do wish Snyder had gotten to do Man of Steel 2 instead of the studio rushing straight into BvS. Really, a lot of the problems in the DCEU come from WB's kneejerk reactions and general lack of forethought.

Yeah, it was at least an interesting new take on Superman, despite the flaws. I do wish Snyder had gotten to do Man of Steel 2 instead of the studio rushing straight into BvS. Really, a lot of the problems in the DCEU come from WB's kneejerk reactions and general lack of forethought.

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Agreed. I felt like a lot of issues would have been resolved with Snyder doing Superman 2. It would have explored a lighter Superman imo, moving towards being the Hero we saw in the montage of Batman V. Superman.

I think it would have covered Clark's reaction to killing Zod and potentially making a no kill rule. Etc.

You know you're something when you can line up Arthellion, DR, and Vlad [RIP] on the same side ~ Nazgus

I enjoyed Man of Steel and Batman v Superman well enough, despite their flaws, but the whole DC cinematic universe thing has been fucked up from the start. So much money is being poured into all these new movies and shit trying to fix it, but it's not going to work. DC isn't going to rival Marvel any time soon.

The thing is, not every movie has to tie into another one, despite the trend that's been going on for the last decade. DC should focus on making good movies like they did with Donner's Superman or Burton/Nolan's Batman and not worry about how Aquaman or fucking Plastic Man or whoever fits into it.