I think it stems beyond that. Poor direction and shitty acting can easily be overlooked in a film of this ilk, but what we're talking about here extends further in to darker, morally dubious areas. It's Right-wing propoganda, with a really fucked up attitude towards some of the most distressing things in America's history. It has a nasty undertone, I really don't trust its intentions. Granted, this may sound a tad hyperbolic, but I don't want to be too clear in what I'm saying for fear of spoiling anything. But yes, its a mess of a film.

A tad hyperbolic indeed.

Like I said, hyperbole was necessary so that I didn't refer to anything to explicitly, for fear of ruining things for anyone that might actually want to see it. I was being conscientious.

Haven't seen the film yet but I'm taking your review with a huge amount of salt - in particular the final paragraph:

"Which leads me to my final, most damning point. At one point in the film, Bay evokes the image of the "falling man”, one of the key visual images of the events of 9/11, as a gang of US Army 'grunts' skydive across a semi-post-apocalyptic skyline. Crass doesn't even begin to cover it, with the sequence unforgivable insensitive and a new low for Bay. It's exploitative nonsense of the highest order, and not at all hyperbolic to suggest that it reaches a level of vile thus far unequalled in the 21st century mainstream cinema."

Sorry, but this is ridiculous - this is proper tabloid journalism; putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 in the interest of making a hyperbolic, outraged point. Just becasue an image 'reminds' you of something doesn't mean it's offensive. A dozen men skydiving past a sky-scraper is a world away from the 'falling man' - the documentary of that 'story' in itself was a crass piece of exploitative journalism, singling out one victim from thousands and then scrutinsing and hypothesising over his final actions. Making a link to this just proves you're searching for these things.

There may well be right-wing, pro-military content in this film (hell, I expect it from Bay), but making the above point your over-riding summary completely negates the validity of your prior argument I'm afraid.

I refused to read the full review and was right to do so.

Totally agree with you tommypocket. Get a grip man you are the exactly the same as how you are portraying the filmakers and I quote "fucked up attitude towards some of the most distressing things in America's history"

Do you really hate Bay that much or do you have the same opinion of all films post 9/11 with burning buildings, collapsing skyscrapers, crashing planes, skydivers ???

Yes Bay might have put all the above in, infact i'm sure he has but then it is a massive battle in a city in a film about warring alien robots !

You see where Im going with this ?

Worst. Post. Ever.

How can you presume to criticise a review if you won't even read it all? For all you know, the above excerpts may have been taken completely out of context. Also, how can you defend a film if you haven't even seen it yet? Adambatman82 has, and he has criticised it based on what he felt the imagery represented. A fairly well informed opinion I'd say. Also without seeing it how can you say he's wrong? Yes, there have been plenty of films featuring skydiving, falling buildings and innercity battles, but how do you know without seeing these particular scenes in this particular film that on this occasion they aren't reflective of 09/11. The answer is you don't.

Ha ha ha, good for you mate, stick it to the man by taking bits out of context and acting all hysterical! Good for you.

On a serious note, that sentence dictates that no one will take you seriously at all for the rest of this discussion. You've just admitted that you're moaning about a review that you haven't read of a film that you haven't seen. That'll really show them who's boss.

Am I one of the unlucky few who watched trash like Bad Boys 2, Revenge of the Fallen, The Island and Pearl Harbour? Surely anyone who watched one of these especially Revenge of the Fallen, know full well Bay can screw up.

Am I one of the unlucky few who watched trash like Bad Boys 2, Revenge of the Fallen, The Island and Pearl Harbour? Surely anyone who watched one of these especially Revenge of the Fallen, know full well Bay can screw up.

Thats what makes this all the more baffling. People are acting like I've insulted the pope! Bay is a hack of the highest order, plain and simple.

Am I one of the unlucky few who watched trash like Bad Boys 2, Revenge of the Fallen, The Island and Pearl Harbour? Surely anyone who watched one of these especially Revenge of the Fallen, know full well Bay can screw up.

I actually quite liked The Island and I really didn't mind Pearl Harbor and the first Transformers - shite though they may have been. I generally quite enjoy Bay's films but I actually hated the 2 sequels he's made that I've seen to date. Somehow though I find myself drawn to see Dark Of The Moon. It's just a morbid curiosity to see how shite it can be.

Am I one of the unlucky few who watched trash like Bad Boys 2, Revenge of the Fallen, The Island and Pearl Harbour? Surely anyone who watched one of these especially Revenge of the Fallen, know full well Bay can screw up.

I actually quite liked The Island and I really didn't mind Pearl Harbor and the first Transformers - shite though they may have been. I generally quite enjoy Bay's films but I actually hated the 2 sequels he's made that I've seen to date. Somehow though I find myself drawn to see Dark Of The Moon. It's just a morbid curiosity to see how shite it can be.

I maybe too harsh on The Island but I just wanted to make the point Bay has problems telling stories. He is normally very good when it comes to action except Bad Boys 2 and the final battle in Transformers 2. However it doesn't change the fact the drama or the plot of his movies can be very weak. His best movie was the Rock and it had a semi serious tone. Sean Connery unofficially returns as a retired James Bond and Cage being a nerd with a gun.

End of the day while I do consider Transformers 1 as a perfect Blockbuster but there no denying it had flaws. Transformers 2 on the other hand is awful. Transformer 3 could go either way and I am not going to risk it.

You're the one acting like one. That is to say that you're hysterical over a review that you haven't read, of a film that you haven't seen. Blinkered doesn't even begin to cover it.

I would say it is you who are being hysterical, one only has to read your review (which i have now read), your statements prior to posting it and proceeding it. Im neither bothered for Bay or Transformers 3, the first was ok the second, shite !! A fanboy I most certainly am not, your statements seemed to be too over analytical and as you say hyperbolic for what is essentially a kids sci-fi film.

I would say it is you who are being hysterical, one only has to read your review (which i have now read), your statements prior to posting it and proceeding it. Im neither bothered for Bay or Transformers 3, the first was ok the second, shite !! A fanboy I most certainly am not, your statements seemed to be too over analytical and as you say hyperbolic for what is essentially a kids sci-fi film.

Serious question: have you seen the film?

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I would say it is you who are being hysterical, one only has to read your review (which i have now read), your statements prior to posting it and proceeding it. Im neither bothered for Bay or Transformers 3, the first was ok the second, shite !! A fanboy I most certainly am not, your statements seemed to be too over analytical and as you say hyperbolic for what is essentially a kids sci-fi film.

I wondered how long it would be before that line was rolled out. Being made for kids is no excuse, and besides, the dozens of pieces of hate mail that I've received today were certainly not from children.

What prior statements are you referring to? I was cautiously optimistic going in, for the very reasons outlined in the review; Bay claimed to be holding back on the "dorky" humour (his word not mine), and I'd heard that the 3D was spectacular. Unfortunately only the latter proved true. There was no mention whatsoever on the site about my feelings towards T3 before I saw it. Likewise with Empire Online. Aside from a couple of tweets bemoaning having to get up so early on a Sunday morning, and one which, curiously enough stated "Don't tell anyone, but I'm secretly excited" there was no other mention of T3 until after I had seen the film.

Am I one of the unlucky few who watched trash like Bad Boys 2, Revenge of the Fallen, The Island and Pearl Harbour? Surely anyone who watched one of these especially Revenge of the Fallen, know full well Bay can screw up.

I actually quite liked The Island and I really didn't mind Pearl Harbor and the first Transformers - shite though they may have been. I generally quite enjoy Bay's films but I actually hated the 2 sequels he's made that I've seen to date. Somehow though I find myself drawn to see Dark Of The Moon. It's just a morbid curiosity to see how shite it can be.

I liked The Island too, at least on theatrical viewing. Didn't quite work for me on DVD. I like The Rock too, and Armageddon isn't bad, in spite of the casual racism, right wing undertones and copious amounts of cheese.

Currently sitting at 64% on Rotten Tomatoes, with 7 fresh reviews out of 11. Interestingly tho both of the "Top Critic" reviews slated it. Most British critics only saw the film tonight, with the consensus from Twitter split down the middle. I predict a sea of three star reviews, down to 2 when the DVD hits.

Yeah I noticed most of the positive reviews came from tabloids and/or SFX type magazines/film sites, mainly focusing all the positives on the action and 3D CGI. Harry Knowles barely mentioned the story at all, just went on about how awesome everything looked which pretty much sums up what his idea of a good film is.

I shouldn't be so presumptuous on a film I haven't seen yet though...

< Message edited by Spaldron -- 27/6/2011 10:37:05 PM >

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Harry Knowles barely mentioned the story at all, just went on about how awesome everything looked which pretty much sums up what his idea of a good film is.

Yeah, and on that note I'm completely with him. The 3D looks spectacular (it impressed me more than Avatar), and the effects are great. I actually think the scenes of devastation are really quite something too, but we don't get an opportunity to spend any time taking it all in, as the film is cut so quickly. Its the same issue with the scope of the picture; unlike something like the LOTR series we aren't given the opportunity to consider it properly, its seemingly all thrown together with no care or understanding of how films work. From a technical perspective Bay hits every note, its the other areas that are lacking.

Can I just remind everyone that this isn't the review thread and still under the title 'Future Films'. If you are copying and pasting, or discussing reviews from elsewhere, please ensure that they are clearly spoiler marked.

Am I one of the unlucky few who watched trash like Bad Boys 2, Revenge of the Fallen, The Island and Pearl Harbour? Surely anyone who watched one of these especially Revenge of the Fallen, know full well Bay can screw up.

I actually quite liked The Island and I really didn't mind Pearl Harbor and the first Transformers - shite though they may have been. I generally quite enjoy Bay's films but I actually hated the 2 sequels he's made that I've seen to date. Somehow though I find myself drawn to see Dark Of The Moon. It's just a morbid curiosity to see how shite it can be.

I liked The Island too, at least on theatrical viewing. Didn't quite work for me on DVD. I like The Rock too, and Armageddon isn't bad, in spite of the casual racism, right wing undertones and copious amounts of cheese.

Didn't The Island also have a sequence of 2 people falling down from a skyscraper?

If its as good as 1 and 2, itl b great. Transformers 1 was brill, i thought Revenge of the Fallen was really good too, cant wait to c 3. If people didnt like 1 and 2, doubt theyl like 3. Gona c Green Lantern on Thurs, is it worth watchn in 3D?