to have half an hour backstory on Balin, I don't think a sentence will do either. I expect to see maybe a couple of minutes dealing with it, no more, really. Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi

We don't know that Frodo will narrate The Hobbit. That is speculation. We have no idea what role, or how big a role, Frodo will have in The Hobbit. I prefer to wait for the actual film to see what it will contain.

As long as the opening is set during "The Hobbit" timeline
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I'd be more inclinded to go with LOTR-era cameos if they didn't open the film. Opening on Bag End with Old Bilbo reading the story of Frodo would be nice (we saw as much in the FOTR EE) but I think the opening should be "Hobbit"-centric.

Just because something can be improved in some way does not mean that it was originally poor. I believe that viewing the story of Bilbo through the lens of Frodo's nostalgia could be a powerful augmentation to the story, but that doesn't mean that I think there was something wrong with the way the story was presented in the book itself. Both angles are good... but one, I think, has the potential to be better if done right.

Remember what Frodo said to Bilbo in Rivendell?

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I miss the Shire. I spent all my childhood pretending I was off somewhere else... off with you on one of your adventures! My own adventure turned out to be quite different... I’m not like you, Bilbo.

This is exactly the nostalgic, regretful, moving feel I'm talking about. It's the story of The Hobbit, viewed through the eyes of Frodo. I'm sure we'll see this aspect of both Bilbo's story and Frodo's character explored much more deeply in the bookend scenes... and I'm really starting to think it was a good idea to add them.

I wondered if perhaps Gandalf would interrupt Frodo's reading of the Red Book to tell his own side of the story, or if the filmmakers would just plough straight into the White Council scenes and hope that nobody remembers there was no way Bilbo would have those things recorded in his memoirs.

...... if Frodo is to be our doorway into the story of Bilbo's adventure, how far do the filmmakers want us to go on being aware of his presence as the story unfolds? If they do then perhaps there will be little chunks of narration, or Gandalf breaking in to describe the Dol Guldur story...

I can't imagine that making for a very satisfactory film. Maybe I'm wrong and they've seen possibilities I'm missing, but it seems to me that if they follow that route there's too much risk of ending up with a neither-one-thing-nor-the-other presentation in which we as audience can't get really involved in Bilbo's story because we keep being taken out of it. Too much will be told and not shown.

I prefer the idea of a pre-'The Shadow of the Past' Frodo leading us in and then stepping back to let 'The Hobbit' take over completely, perhaps returning at the end of film one, beginning of film two, or not returning at all until the very end. that way 'The Hobbit' is as independent as it can be while still being drawn into the overall film adaptation.

But of course I might change my mind completely when I see how they've done it!

watching the EE behind the scenes you really get a glimpse into Jackson's film making style and he does quite a bit of story work in post production. From what I saw on the documentaries the Rings scripts were evolving all the time during shooting and even with lots of pre-planning the stories really came together in the editing bay.

That being said all we know for sure is who is in the movie - a press release says Elijah Wood is back - TORN says it has something to do with the Red Book.

Everything else is just our imaginations trying to force square pegs into triangular holes. We don't know how big the role is, or how the Red Book is involved.

I'm trying to expand my mind beyond just the story being read from that book and when I do that I can see many cool ways of incorporating Frodo in at the beginning or ending of The Hobbit in a way that augments the viewing of the trilogy.

But I'll be really surprised if they overlap timelines - I think it more likely to keep the whole time line of The Hobbit movies as lead up to the trilogy.

From what I remember about the movies there is no reason we can't assume that the whole "There and Back Again" story was already completely written in the Red Book by the time Fellowship starts. Bilbo continues to write in the book, of course, throughout the movie but only "Concerning Hobbits" and other things that would have been written after Bilbo wrote down his other adventures.

As to how it will eventually be done, it's possible that even Peter Jackson won't really know until he's sitting in the editing room with the footage in front of him. "Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer... Shakespeare."

Who knows if the frodo material will even make it into the final film. As you say so much is done in the editing room.

Perhpas the decide after the shoot the material that it doesnt work and the movies become a straight forward telling of the hobbit... we just don't know enough about the script and even if we did - Anything can change from now until the first screening of the movie ! the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed

It has existed for seventy years, therefore no attempts to improve the story should be made? I don't think any work of fiction deserves that sort of untouchable, unquestionable status. Of course it doesn't 'need to be improved' – it is already very good – but thoughtful enhancements certainly have the potential to be beneficial to the story.

that JRRT made several attempts to 'improve' the tale, to add to it and make it fit better with his full vision. We know he altered Riddles in the Dark, we know he fleshed out the Necromancer backstory and Radagast in LOTR, we know the detail of where the map and key came from and why the Dwarves turned up at Bag End in the first place from UT. We know Gollum's full story from LOTR. Tolkien 'improved' the tale many times and in many ways.

What JRRT did in 'fleshing out' the tale of TH in this way all improved it, for me. Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi

I wondered if perhaps Gandalf would interrupt Frodo's reading of the Red Book to tell his own side of the story, or if the filmmakers would just plough straight into the White Council scenes and hope that nobody remembers there was no way Bilbo would have those things recorded in his memoirs.

Bilbo spent what must have been months traveling back from Dale with Gandalf and Beorn, and stayed with Elrond in Rivendell on they way home too. As inquisitive as Hobbits are, I can't imagine he didn't hear many of the details of Gandalf's adventures and maybe even more details from Elrond.

True, Bilbo didn't include those things as part of his There and Back Again tale, but the Red Book is much more than just the story contained between the book-covers of The Hobbit; it ends up containing the entire tale from the Unexpected Party to long after Frodo, and even Sam, sail to the West. From the forward and appendices to LOTR, we already know that not all of the story was published in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings proper. So, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that bits of the story were added after Bilbo finished There and Back Again and, that in the years between when Bilbo adopted Frodo and the Long Expected Party, Frodo would have had many opportunities to both read The Red Book and pick Bilbo's brain about the adventures.

An additional angle might be that Gandalf visited Bilbo many times in The Shire, and Frodo might have sat by the fire listening to them talk about their old adventures.

Anyway, my point (and I do have one ), is that there are plenty of ways both Bilbo and Frodo would have known some (if not many) of the details of Dol Guldur & the White Council before Frodo picks the book up to read it in the movie.

I'm fairly certain Gandalf would have used any excuse to smoke some pipeweed and eat some seed cake at Bag End, and the two hobbits would, I'm sure, have quizzed him endlessly on wher he'd been, and what he'd been up to, as well as asking for news of people they knew, or had heard of. Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi

....says he will be seen narrating Bilbo's story at the beginning of both part 1 and 2. Interesting. Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

It was in this way he learned where Gandalf had been too; for he overheard the words of the wizard to Elrond. It appeared that Gandalf had been to a great council of white wizards, masters of lore and good magic; and that they had at last driven the Necromancer from his dark hold in the south of Mirkwood.

It looks like I may have been mistaken. He did know of the Council and the expulsion of the Necromancer from Mirkwood. So I guess the question is: would Gandalf really have given him the specifics?

... the little snippet in the Deadline article about Andy Serkis linked on the main page, which says sources tell them Ian Holm is in talks to make a return appearance as Bilbo... Surely that has to be at the beginning or end of the films as well, or as a voice-over, if it's true.

I absolutely agree with everything you said. I assumed that the movie would be told in present, and I'm holding out hope that it will be in the finished film. Shoving The Hobbit into a superfluous faming device does nothing to help the story. All it does it add extra time to the movie that could be used for other purposes, or cut for pacing reasons. I'm really hoping that by the time they come to editing that this ends up on the cutting room floor.

The more the two stories are interconnected on film the better as far as I'm concerned. It is after all, one big story. Since time travel machines are not available in Middle Earth, Frodo will be involved either in some narration or some kind of flashback - don't have a problem with that and I like to see some of the actors returning. It's all good. King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder? Tim: There are some who call me... Tim?

.....Since Frodo will be seen in the beginning of each movie reading from Bilbo's book (EW.Com),presumably narrating/introducing the events of The Hobbit, when in the context of Middle Earth time/place will he be in when he is doing this? In between events of TH and LOTR? After the events of LOTR? Where will he be? The Shire, Rivendell...Valinor???

I'd really like to see peoples thoughts on this! - "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."