Saint-Just wrote:Even apart from the cost I can't get excited about this - the stop motion is the star, the rest is pretty middling stuff, and Lloyd Hughes must be the blandest leading man of the entire silent era. When I had the Lumivision DVD I watched the extras far more than the feature; I have the Image version now and couldn't even tell you the last time I looked at any of it.

Does the Lumivision DVD supplement contain a still photo of the original Doyle on-screen appearance in the film? Is this photo available online? If not, can you describe what the photo looks like? The new Flicker Alley Blu-ray does not have this photo in its supplement, unfortunately.

For those who don't know, the Doyle appearance on the Blu-ray's opening scene is not the original footage. The original Doyle footage of him sitting at his desk reading a poem has been lost. But a still photo of the footage survives, and is included in the Lumivision DVD. David Shepard's 2000 restoration also has the unoriginal Doyle opening.

I saw this at the San Francisco Silent Film Festival and had a great time -- vastly entertaining and most impressive on that huge Castro Theater screen. I prefer the energy of the Alloy Orchestra score to the orchestral score on the Blu-Ray, but whatever. I enjoyed the Blu-Ray a great deal, and am very glad to have it in my library. A tasty treat, with some still impressive effects.

Red Bartlett wrote:I'm comparing Flicker's prices to the competition. I never buy Criterions at full price -- usually for $20 during a B&N sale. And Kino's run around $18-20. Flicker does a good job most of the time (I guess I'd rank them somewhere between Kino and Criterion). But they cost two of those.

Dead horse, I know. Point is -- despite Flicker putting out a lot of great titles -- there's a reason I have a shelf full of Kino and Criterions.

It is a bit unfair to compare Flicker Alley's list prices to Criterion and Kino's sale prices. Flicker Alley also has sale prices, particularly if you purchase ahead of the release date. They are also putting out items with a much more refined (and limited) audience, which requires each unit to cover more of production costs (I don't think I'd anticipate another company releasing House of Mystery or The Clinging Vine, for instance). Your purchase of The Lost World helps underwrite those ambitious, if less financially rewarding, undertakings.

Rodney Sauer
The Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra
www.mont-alto.com"Let the Music do the Talking!"

“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir

My Flicker Alley blu-ray arrived yesterday and I got to sample a good 20-30 minutes last night. Loved it! And it looks really great. Very sharp from what I saw. Even through the scratches it looked quite brilliant.

As a film, I am really enjoying the pacing. It briskly introduced its characters without wasting any of its energy and excitement. Great tints, too. It feels like a "big event" movie. Like a blockbuster from long, long ago. As it surely was. The great grand-daddy of Raiders of the Lost Ark. The king before Kong.

To anyone thinking this is only worth the stop-motion effects -- so far, I feel just the opposite is true. As groundbreaking and historic as those effects certainly are -- they are what they are. I'm viewing this just as much as a groundbreaking adventure film.

Anyway, I'm only partly the way through. I'm anxious to see how this compares overall to King Kong of a few years later. So far it's really holding its own in my estimation. I'm going to enjoy watching the rest this weekend. This is a fun popcorn movie. What a gem!

Saint-Just wrote:Even apart from the cost I can't get excited about this - the stop motion is the star, the rest is pretty middling stuff, and Lloyd Hughes must be the blandest leading man of the entire silent era. When I had the Lumivision DVD I watched the extras far more than the feature; I have the Image version now and couldn't even tell you the last time I looked at any of it.

Does the Lumivision DVD supplement contain a still photo of the original Doyle on-screen appearance in the film? Is this photo available online? If not, can you describe what the photo looks like? The new Flicker Alley Blu-ray does not have this photo in its supplement, unfortunately.

For those who don't know, the Doyle appearance on the Blu-ray's opening scene is not the original footage. The original Doyle footage of him sitting at his desk reading a poem has been lost. But a still photo of the footage survives, and is included in the Lumivision DVD. David Shepard's 2000 restoration also has the unoriginal Doyle opening.

Here is a picture of the original Doyle introduction. It is found in the still gallery section of my copy of the Lumivision DVD. Doyle is shown sitting down writing the dedication to his book ("To the boy who's half a man, or the man who's half a boy"), while co-producer Watterson Rothacker stands beside him:

SilentsPlease wrote:Here is a picture of the original Doyle introduction. It is found in the still gallery section of my copy of the Lumivision DVD. Doyle is shown sitting down writing the dedication to his book ("To the boy who's half a man, or the man who's half a boy"), while co-producer Watterson Rothacker stands beside him:

I screened this last night and it is about as good of a presentation of a silent film as I've ever seen. Great image quality, perfectly suited music. I noticed a little hitch in the restoration credits at the end, but the movie itself looked smooth. Great job overall. Happy to have this one.

I saw this live at the Weinberg Center in Frederick, Maryland on Saturday accompanied by the Mighty Wurlitzer. I had bought the Blu-Ray from Flicker but waited to see it live so I have not opened the disk yet. Very enjoyable experience, and I can imagine in that day when this film was new how fascinating the special effects were to the audiences. And the clarity was truly amazing.

From the thread above there must be some good extras so I will get around to them eventually.

What exactly does this mean? The Lost World Blu Ray is already out, without the Alloy score, right? All the comments that I have read have only referred to the Israel score. Will the Alloy score be on a future printing then?

What exactly does this mean? The Lost World Blu Ray is already out, without the Alloy score, right? All the comments that I have read have only referred to the Israel score. Will the Alloy score be on a future printing then?

Curiouser & curiouser, and yes, this is indeed confusing. Are there two soundtracks available on this release? Was another score just added or was it included in the first issue? Did marketing accidentally overlook the Allow orchestra's contribution? Mine lists Robert Israel's score, which I presume is orchestral. I support including alternate scores to provide customers with a range of listening options, but it would not be kewl to switch out Robert Israel's orchestral score for a more modern alternate musical interpretation.

Maybe someone can shed some light on this. In any case, I'll make time to watch my Flicker Alley .copy this week.

If Flicker Alley adds the Alloy score to future purchases only, this will be the last dvd or blu-ray I ever pre-order from Flicker Alley. Lost World is one of my favorite silent films. The blu-ray picture quality is great, but I preferred the old Image Alloy score.

Agreed -- it would seriously suck if Flicker Alley doesn't set up some kind of exchange program for those of us who purchased the initial release. The Alloy score rocked the Castro Theater this past June.

BrianG wrote:If Flicker Alley adds the Alloy score to future purchases only, this will be the last dvd or blu-ray I ever pre-order from Flicker Alley. Lost World is one of my favorite silent films. The blu-ray picture quality is great, but I preferred the old Image Alloy score.

It's too early to cast aspersions on Flicker Alley. I'd prefer to remain neutral and supportive of everyone's personal tastes and interests here, being respectful of Flicker Alley's choices while not impugning any decisions made without knowing all the facts. And allow me to state up-front that Alloy Orchestra is an excellent ensemble and Ken Winokur's work on silent films deserves the highest praise.

In fairness though, most silent films tend to benefit form traditional musical accompaniment reflecting the period in which films were originally screened. This viewpoint comes from something I recall as a film student many years ago regarding the suspension of disbelief. Our minds recognize authenticity based on stimuli from historical connections; anything that interferes with that is a distraction. For instance, we'd find someone in a 1920 era film using a cell phone just as illogical as a film with 90's era rave kids at a grunge concert doing the Charleston.

In silent cinema, the movie is half the experience; the other half isn't "silent". While modern film music may only reflect a portion of the sound spectrum, the rest made up of many natural sounds, effects (noise) and dialogue. But in a silent feature ...even late silents with recorded soundtracks..., music is a significant portion of the filmgoing experience, providing emotional cues and dynamic support for intense scenes.

There are avante garde silent films ...such as the Soviet masterpiece Man With a Camera... which greatly benefit from a more abstract, modern effects driven score in ways that traditional scoring can never achieve, but films of this nature tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Note: One should also take into account differences in visceral impact between musicians performing before a live audience and recordings on a disc medium. IOW, take into account how effects driven scores compare to full orchestral recordings on home entertainment medium.

The simplest solution is not the easiest for distributors trying to eke out profits from a niche market, but it is the most obvious one, so bear with me on this:

We live in a amazing time when a remarkable amount of data can be stored on 5" media (DVD, BD, UHD-BD). There's room for all manner of commentaries, extras and most importantly, alternate soundtracks if desired. The question then becomes one of whether it's worth risking lost sales from an otherwise outstanding restoration ...lessening the impact of the laborious work involved... through failure to take into account the inclusion of music reflecting the wide range of tastes of the audience demographic?

Sorry 'bout the length (m'thinks too much caffeine again), but hopefully I've conveyed these thoughts reasonably and in an inoffensive manner.

I haven't cast aspersions on anyone. I'm just curious about what the purchasers' options are. Apparently, future purchasers will be getting value that people who pre-ordered won't have. I love Robert Israel's score, but having another musical score to choose from would give us the ability to watch the film in a different musical context - like watching a different film. I think the folks who pre-ordered should get the same value as people who buy in the future. We didn't have a choice. One lone disc in the mail, without the case or booklet of course, would solve everything. Maybe that's what Flicker Alley plans to do. It would be logical and fair.

Mitch Farish wrote:I haven't cast aspersions on anyone. I'm just curious about what the purchasers' options are. Apparently, future purchasers will be getting value that people who pre-ordered won't have. I love Robert Israel's score, but having another musical score to choose from would give us the ability to watch the film in a different musical context - like watching a different film. I think the folks who pre-ordered should get the same value as people who buy in the future. We didn't have a choice. One lone disc in the mail, without the case or booklet of course, would solve everything. Maybe that's what Flicker Alley plans to do. It would be logical and fair.

No one is casting aspersions, Mitch. We're all just sharing POV in respect to an issue which has produced confusion. So far, this hasn't been addressed with clarity by Flicker Alley. I suspect it will be soon.

R. Cat wrote:most silent films tend to benefit form traditional musical accompaniment reflecting the period in which films were originally screened. This viewpoint comes from something I recall as a film student many years ago regarding the suspension of disbelief. Our minds recognize authenticity based on stimuli from historical connections; anything that interferes with that is a distraction.

You make your point well, R., and it's a valid one. But...

If "authenticity ... from historical connections" is the single standard - shouldn't the music reflect the period of the STORY? In other words:

A Hart Western should not be scored in 1920s style, but 1880s style. And METROPOLIS, also not 1920s, but - whenever in the Future it takes place.

-Craig

Last edited by wich2 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think that the message tried to get across is that the music used on silent pictures should not be glaringly out of it's time. By that I would mean it completely inappropriate to score for a rock band with electric guitars and an amplified drum kit. (Don't laugh - I had to endure "Piccadilly" screened thus). Or, to utilise music composed later than the early 1930's - there are exceptions of course. Another thing - is to try and play something that matches the scene - if on the screen a couple are dancing the Charleston - play Charleston music. Then there are the cues - like someone knocking on the door or the telephone ringing - which can have drum taps or a bell ringing. One would think that it would be relatively simple to work something out in compiling a score if music is one of your pursuits - but too often I think that someone wishes to make a name for themselves. (The musicians who write on this board and do scores are all wonderful by the way!)

Regards fromDonald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."