THis should be a good debate. I'm not talking about being taught. I mean should students have the right to pray and/or read their bibles, wear Christian clothing, crosses and other jewelry while they are in a classroom or at lunch. Many schools are banning this type of practice already and paying people to roam the halls in search of children to prosecute and sue their parents. Many federal judges have been quoted as saying that any kid caught praying will wish they were never born. I'm not making this personal, but this should be a good debate. Whoever decides to join has to start off with an introduction, followed by four body posts and a rebuttal to sum up your arguements. Post if you're interested and I'll flip a coin. Remember, I will not make this personal and I won't even judge it. Good luck.

(\ /)
(0.0)
(><)
/_|_\
Frank The Rabbit: 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds. That is when the world will end.

Posted 15 July 2004 - 03:11 AM

Im in I will go either way it doesn't matter.

This will be a good one.

One night I ventured to my wooden rocking chair right outside my back porch, and I looked to the sky in the break of twilight, staring into the dark mirror of space, filled with sands of star dust, colossal supernovas and red giants, strings of wormholes and distant planets beyond my grasp. A place where tiny enigmatic hidden black holes tear through the fabric of space and time which, who knows; may lead into other dimensions and perhaps alternate realities. And as I look up at this heavens mirror which my hands can only reach so far through this looking glass, I felt an odd sensation of something looking back staring into my own eyes, staring into a whole other universe of which I new nothing about until I saw my reflection within it, and in that moment I then knew that the key which open the portal doors to parallel worlds was myself. "The Eyes of the Universe, Chris Landrum"

(\ /)
(0.0)
(><)
/_|_\
Frank The Rabbit: 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds. That is when the world will end.

Posted 16 July 2004 - 06:42 AM

Well first off Id like to say good luck to you Xenojjin . I know from past debates that you are more than a worthy opponent.

Not being a Christian myself, but still understanding the importance to have the right to exercise our freedom of religion especially in school. Religion is important in a childs development from teenager to adulthood.

Id like to start off by saying that- Religion

1. Builds a childs character: It helps them get involved with more school activities, and is healthy.

2.Builds up their Self-esteem: It gives them hope, that things will get better when things get bad, and it essentially makes them feel better about themselves.

3.Keeps children out of trouble: It helps keep them away from drugs, gangs, and keeps them from fighting amongst their peers.

As Nobel Prize-winning economist Robert Fogel discovers that religion builds character, makes us healthier, saves the marginalized, and improves education, and society-whether or not its religious claims are true.

Next I would like to point out that.

1. Christians have built thousands of hospitals, helped the homeless, and most important help fund and build schools.

2. A study in 1994 in a Readers Digest shows that 84% of americans believe there is a god, 79% believe in jesus ( Christianity). A recent study after the Passion of Christ another 10% of Amercians were spiritually changed by the movie, which means that 89% of Americans follow Chrisitanity.

3. Freedom of speech, religion and expression also applies to christians not just other forms of religion.

You cannot possibly take away a childs right to express himself among his peers in school. Can anyone show me a statement issued by a child who ever been offended by another classmate wearing a religious T-Shirt, or Jewerly. Kids go to school to learn, and thats what teachers and our government should care about they shouldn't worry who's wearing what. They need to fund a better education for these children instead of discouraging them by taking away the most important thing in their life which is their RELIGION.

As long as these kids are not having mass, or communion in school then there should be no worries, about the type of clothing they are wearing. Would it be right for a teacher to take away my Origin of the Species Book or Darwian T-Shirt? No it wouldn't, just as it would not be ok to take away a childs Bible, or make them take off their Jesus shirt, as go's for any other type of religious shirt for that matter. Science has still yet to prove Macroevolution, and Intellegent Design Theory is on the rise because life is to complex to only be explained by evolution Ohio will soon be the first state to represent Intellegent Design in schools. Whether the universe be created be ourselves (The Human Psyche), aliens, God, or Gods, many scientist now believe it cannot be explained by evolution. Darwian himself said his theory would break down, if Macro wasn't proven in the near future. To this day it still hasn't been proven, so why is that schools don't stop students from wearing shirts that have to do with evolution, or einstein, or any type of shirt that has to do with science?My point is that it's not harming anyone by wearing any type of clothing period especially religious.

In my next arguement I will show why it is not possible to take away a childs freedom of religious expression in schools.

QUOTE

Many federal judges have been quoted as saying that any kid caught praying will wish they were never born

And one more thing which ever judges said this need to go back to Law School, and need to have their hind end kicked until they pray they were never born.

Sincerely TNO

One night I ventured to my wooden rocking chair right outside my back porch, and I looked to the sky in the break of twilight, staring into the dark mirror of space, filled with sands of star dust, colossal supernovas and red giants, strings of wormholes and distant planets beyond my grasp. A place where tiny enigmatic hidden black holes tear through the fabric of space and time which, who knows; may lead into other dimensions and perhaps alternate realities. And as I look up at this heavens mirror which my hands can only reach so far through this looking glass, I felt an odd sensation of something looking back staring into my own eyes, staring into a whole other universe of which I new nothing about until I saw my reflection within it, and in that moment I then knew that the key which open the portal doors to parallel worlds was myself. "The Eyes of the Universe, Chris Landrum"

Christianity should definatly be a banned religion . It has caused countless wars for centuries and is quite possibly one of the most intoloerant religions out their . Do we want our kids believing that everyone who doesnt believe in the same things they do are "disciples of satan" and will "burn in hell for all eternity" ? Should we tolerate intolerance ? no .

QUOTE

Id like to start off by saying that- Religion

1. Builds a childs character: It helps them get involved with more school activities, and is healthy.

2.Builds up their Self-esteem: It gives them hope, that things will get better when things get bad, and it essentially makes them feel better about themselves.

3.Keeps children out of trouble: It helps keep them away from drugs, gangs, and keeps them from fighting amongst their peers.

Their are other ways to do all of the above , and many athiests have shown that they are kind individuals with just as much self esteem , character , wisdom and values as kids with religion . Since the above can be achieved without religion , why should christianity in particular be banned ?

1 ) Christian children are taught good values , but they are also taught complete gibberish that is nothing but mind control and a waste of their time . For instance - they are taught the devil exists in this world who is responsible for all the evil that exists . For one thing , we have absolutly no proof of a devil existing . He is but a myth from a book who is no more likely to exist then a fairy village from a disney movie . And the "devil" ends up taking responsible for all the evil in the world , which makes kids think that they are not responsible for their wrong doings - "the devil made me do it !" why should we sacrifice our childrens common sense for good values when we dont have to ? Its stupid , and should not be allowed .

2 ) The only reason christianity is still taught is because it has been drilled into the minds of kids from day 1 . It has been proven by such things as the skeptics annotated bible and philisophical debates that christianity is logically impossible to be true , and people only believe it because they have had it molded into their minds at a young age , It has been sadly shown that you can get a person to believe anything if you tell it to them from they day they are born ... you can even get them to blow themselves up in a bus full of innocent people . Should america free country permit free thought ? If so , christianity should definatly be banned .

QUOTE

As Nobel Prize-winning economist Robert Fogel discovers that religion builds character, makes us healthier, saves the marginalized, and improves education, and society-whether or not its religious claims are true.

Next I would like to point out that.

1. Christians have built thousands of hospitals, helped the homeless, and most important help fund and build schools.

What ? As if athiests and non christians have not contributed to society ? Almost every religion has made some kind of contribution to the world , this does not mean the religion is just and should be allowed .

QUOTE

2. A study in 1994 in a Readers Digest shows that 84% of americans believe there is a god, 79% believe in jesus ( Christianity). A recent study after the Passion of Christ another 10% of Amercians were spiritually changed by the movie, which means that 89% of Americans follow Chrisitanity.

Since when does the majority believing in something make it more valid ? If everyone believed humans had 5 feet , would we have 5 feet ? No .

QUOTE

3. Freedom of speech, religion and expression also applies to christians not just other forms of religion.

I wish christians would allow freedom of religion in their own religion , yet , they do not . Christians believe that pretty much everyone who doesnt think what they think will burn in hell ... that kind of intolerance alone shows that the constitution needs to be changed so that people still have freedom of religion , but they can only choose between religions that dont suggest intolerant and hatefull thoughts which christianty especially has an abundance of . One only needs to look through history to find that religious intolerance has caused billions of deaths - should we allow hatefull religions like christianity to still exist and spread their evil across the world ? No , we humans have suffered enough and it must be stopped .

QUOTE

You cannot possibly take away a childs right to express himself among his peers in school. Can anyone show me a statement issued by a child who ever been offended by another classmate wearing a religious T-Shirt, or Jewerly. Kids go to school to learn, and thats what teachers and our government should care about they shouldn't worry who's wearing what. They need to fund a better education for these children instead of discouraging them by taking away the most important thing in their life which is their RELIGION.

We cannot take away a childs right to express themselves , but we should still set limits . A religious belief that encourages students to banish each other to hell and believe that everyone who doesnt believe the same things as them is on "satans side" ? Christianity is nothing but hate disgustingly disguised as a harmless religion so it can pass through school doors . Do we allow hate in school ? No . Then why do we allow hate into our schools under a differant name ? Just because its in our constitution that we must do so ? Absurd . And you dont need a statement to know the non christians are being oppressed - just go to a public school and you will find that many non - christians find the christians actions and hypocrisy towards them quite irritating . The only reason christianity doesnt cause massive problems in schools is because so many kids believe in it ... which is no excuse .

QUOTE

As long as these kids are not having mass, or communion in school then there should be no worries, about the type of clothing they are wearing. Would it be right for a teacher to take away my Origin of the Species Book or Darwian T-Shirt? No it wouldn't, just as it would not be ok to take away a childs Bible, or make them take off their Jesus shirt, as go's for any other type of religious shirt for that matter. Science has still yet to prove Macroevolution, and Intellegent Design Theory is on the rise because life is to complex to only be explained by evolution Ohio will soon be the first state to represent Intellegent Design in schools. Whether the universe be created be ourselves (The Human Psyche), aliens, God, or Gods, many scientist now believe it cannot be explained by evolution. Darwian himself said his theory would break down, if Macro wasn't proven in the near future. To this day it still hasn't been proven, so why is that schools don't stop students from wearing shirts that have to do with evolution, or einstein, or any type of shirt that has to do with science?My point is that it's not harming anyone by wearing any type of clothing period especially religious.

The differance between a darwin T-shirt / intelligent desighn / origin of the speicies books and christianity is that unlike the rest , christianity suggests that everyone else is evil and they are the only ones in the "light of truth" despite the lack of logic in their religion as proven by skeptics who have gone through the bible and have found countless errors , contridictions , and instances of intolerance . Religion is harming kids by stealing their minds and making them believe in illogical things many of them would never believe in if they didnt have it peddled to them at such a young age . Quite possibly the biggest problem with christianity is that its intolerance also teaches arrogance . Kids grow up often thinking they are superior because they know "The truth" and in their teenage years they find themselves believing they know everything - something one doesnt need proof of as you can just walk into any highschool and nearly taste the pride emitted from kids who are obviously clueless . There is nothing wrong with freedom to express oneself , unless you find yourself believing everyone else is going to burn for all eternity .

------------------<off debate>

whew , That was one of the longest intros ever . this is already off to a great start . \\\

This is a debate thread strictly limited between the two participants, you cannot post your opinions to it. I'm going to delete it in a moment.

MM

Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense. ~ Carl Sagan

"...man has an irrepressible tendency to read meaning into the buzzing confusion of sights and sounds impinging on his senses; and where no agreed meaning can be found, he will provide it out of his own imagination." ~ Arthur Koestler

(\ /)
(0.0)
(><)
/_|_\
Frank The Rabbit: 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds. That is when the world will end.

Posted 17 July 2004 - 01:53 AM

QUOTE (Xenojjin @ Jul 16 2004, 10:42 PM)

QUOTE

Christianity should definatly be a banned religion . It has caused countless wars for centuries and is quite possibly one of the most intoloerant religions out their . Do we want our kids believing that everyone who doesnt believe in the same things they do are "disciples of satan" and will "burn in hell for all eternity" ? Should we tolerate intolerance ? no .

Religion does not cause war, people cause war. Yes religion may have influence over war, but music also has influence over our actions. Should we ban music because it sometimes promotes violence? The point is people have to learn control, and not let the religion or music control the people.

QUOTE

Their are other ways to do all of the above , and many athiests have shown that they are kind individuals with just as much self esteem , character , wisdom and values as kids with religion . Since the above can be achieved without religion , why should christianity in particular be banned ?

Come on Xenojjin thats not the point, you see if a child shows good mental, and physical development, and religion was a big part of that development then it should not be taken away, it should be taken advantage of.

QUOTE

We cannot take away a childs right to express themselves , but we should still set limits . A religious belief that encourages students to banish each other to hell and believe that everyone who doesnt believe the same things as them is on "satans side" ? Christianity is nothing but hate disgustingly disguised as a harmless religion so it can pass through school doors . Do we allow hate in school ? No . Then why do we allow hate into our schools under a differant name ? Just because its in our constitution that we must do so ? Absurd . And you dont need a statement to know the non christians are being oppressed - just go to a public school and you will find that many non - christians find the christians actions and hypocrisy towards them quite irritating . The only reason christianity doesnt cause massive problems in schools is because so many kids believe in it ... which is no excuse .

I don't believe christians promote hate, I think the point of christianity is to except the fact that we are weak in nature and we need to be saved by God. Where is the hate in that? When has a christian ever wished hell upon anyone? They may cause alot of crap but never in my life have I ever heard of any christian wish hell upon a man. The reason christianity doesn't cause problems is not because the majority believes in jesus, it is because they turn the other cheek. How many times have I started crap with Nxt2hvn and how many times has she turned away and laughed at me. It's happened plenty of times.

Now enough of this, here is my back up get ready for some long reading.

The Equal Access Act- itself protects students' right to the enjoyment of free association and speech. The law was originally heavily promoted by conservative Christian groups to allow students to organize religious clubs, and wear religious clothing in public schools. These are typically conservative Christian Bible study, fellowship and prayer clubs. One writer estimated that the number of Christian Bible clubs in high schools rose from 100 in 1980 to 15,000 by 1995. Since the new millenium has past, recent studies show that Anarchist, Pagans, and Homosexuals have used The Equal Access Act to protect their rights to freedom of self expression in schools 20% more than christian groups from 2000 to 2002.

How can you refute The Equal Access Act? This guarantees representation of religious freedom by students, if religion and expression were not important for a students development then We The People of the United States would change the law, but this hasn't happened yet, so as long their is religion, and music, and jewerly there is nothing these punk ass Judges, Principles, and Teachers can do about it period. THE EQUAL ACCESS ACT PROTECTS.

Second I would like to point out that not only does the Equal Access Act protect students rights to religious freedom, but the most important thing that represents us as Americans says that we all have the right to excercise religious freedom the one and only First Amendment of The United States Constitution.

The First Amendment-. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise (thereof); or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I have also found yet again another document that protects religious freedom, which is The North West Ordinance.

The Northwest Ordinance- says: "Knowledge, morality, and religion being essential for the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education are to be forever encouraged."

Are we to deny everything that our founding fathers fought and died for? If we take away a students right to religious freedom in public schools then what the hell is next, will we eventually completely do away with religion period, no we can't do that!!! We would be playing Dictator, we are a Democracy, with Free enterprise we vote on things. Didn't we just try to get rid of Saddam Hussein, and was he not a Dictator?

To take away students religion would not only be disgracing our Forefathers, but it would also disgrace our government. Because if thats the case then we no longer need IN GOD WE TRUST ON OUR MONEY, and we no longer need to SWEAR IN OUR UNITED STATES PRESIDENT.You tell these Federal Judges this that TNO said that, they need to STOP MAKING PEOPLE SWEAR ON THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP ME GOD!!!!

I can already feel the heat, I don't know about you Xenojjin your making this a good match.

TNO and Im out yo.

One night I ventured to my wooden rocking chair right outside my back porch, and I looked to the sky in the break of twilight, staring into the dark mirror of space, filled with sands of star dust, colossal supernovas and red giants, strings of wormholes and distant planets beyond my grasp. A place where tiny enigmatic hidden black holes tear through the fabric of space and time which, who knows; may lead into other dimensions and perhaps alternate realities. And as I look up at this heavens mirror which my hands can only reach so far through this looking glass, I felt an odd sensation of something looking back staring into my own eyes, staring into a whole other universe of which I new nothing about until I saw my reflection within it, and in that moment I then knew that the key which open the portal doors to parallel worlds was myself. "The Eyes of the Universe, Chris Landrum"

Religion does not cause war, people cause war. Yes religion may have influence over war, but music also has influence over our actions. Should we ban music because it sometimes promotes violence? The point is people have to learn control, and not let the religion or music control the people. thumbsup.gif

The problem is , people do not control themselves , and cannot learn to do so . Some people do , some people self govern ... but the majority does not . Music is something people use to deal with life , to reflect upon themselves . Its insightfull .

What does religion have ? Religion is a set of values , a way of life . What if that religion is violent and intolerant ? Then that persons values and their way of life will have those elements as well . Are religious fanatics not currently blowing themselves up because of religion ? What if those people had religions that were tolerant of other religions ?

They would not be fighting now , would they ?

I am not going against religion in this debate , Im going against violent ones .. christianity fits the boat for violence quite nicely . Just read genesis 19:24 , exodus 9:9 , dueteronomy 6:15 , acts 3:23 , and romans 1:18 to see just how tolerant and peacefull christianity really is .

QUOTE

Come on Xenojjin thats not the point, you see if a child shows good mental, and physical development, and religion was a big part of that development then it should not be taken away, it should be taken advantage of.

I was simply stating that such things can be accomplished without christianity - meaning that we dont really need it . which is better - a kind athiest who believes in freedom to choose people's own path's in life or a kind christian who believes everyone who doesnt follow the same godly path they follow must burn in hell for all eternity ?

QUOTE

I don't believe christians promote hate, I think the point of christianity is to except the fact that we are weak in nature and we need to be saved by God. Where is the hate in that? When has a christian ever wished hell upon anyone? They may cause alot of crap but never in my life have I ever heard of any christian wish hell upon a man. The reason christianity doesn't cause problems is not because the majority believes in jesus, it is because they turn the other cheek. How many times have I started crap with Nxt2hvn and how many times has she turned away and laughed at me. It's happened plenty of times.

Now enough of this, here is my back up get ready for some long reading. grin2.gif

if you have never heard a christian talk about how everyone else is going to hell , you need to go to church more often . Their are plenty of nuts who think they are divinely inspired to issue degree's of burning . Chrisitanity does have its peacefull points and quite a few good morals , but the problem is that they still follow an intolerant religion . And the christian god has been the most excellent role model hasn't he ? Drowning millions of humans just because most of them were idiots ( technically his fault , I might add ) , slaughtering the egyptians just because they with plagues that targeted innocent children , Killing hundreds people off just because they were homosexual ... by the way you do realize that most christians think homosexuality is a sin ? how are we supposed to advance in society towards a goal that supports acceptance of everyone if the majority believes in a religion that cant even get over meager sexual differances that essentially cause harm to ...

erm...

...absolutly no one ?

QUOTE

The Equal Access Act- itself protects students' right to the enjoyment of free association and speech. The law was originally heavily promoted by conservative Christian groups to allow students to organize religious clubs, and wear religious clothing in public schools. These are typically conservative Christian Bible study, fellowship and prayer clubs. One writer estimated that the number of Christian Bible clubs in high schools rose from 100 in 1980 to 15,000 by 1995. Since the new millenium has past, recent studies show that Anarchist, Pagans, and Homosexuals have used The Equal Access Act to protect their rights to freedom of self expression in schools 20% more than christian groups from 2000 to 2002.

How can you refute The Equal Access Act? This guarantees representation of religious freedom by students, if religion and expression were not important for a students development then We The People of the United States would change the law, but this hasn't happened yet, so as long their is religion, and music, and jewerly there is nothing these punk ass Judges, Principles, and Teachers can do about it period. THE EQUAL ACCESS ACT PROTECTS.

The equal access act should be changed and should only apply to non violent and tolerant religions . This is kind of the point - christianity should be banned , how does showing the law that allows christianity to not be banned already contribute to this debate since changing such things as these is exactly what the argument is about ?

QUOTE

Second I would like to point out that not only does the Equal Access Act protect students rights to religious freedom, but the most important thing that represents us as Americans says that we all have the right to excercise religious freedom the one and only First Amendment of The United States Constitution.

The First Amendment-. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise (thereof); or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I have also found yet again another document that protects religious freedom, which is The North West Ordinance.

The first ammendment was a wise decision , yet it needs to be changed .

The First Amendment-. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of non violent and tolerant religion , or prohibiting the free exercise (thereof); or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It needs to be changed simply because although religious freedom sounds awesome on paper , what if people make evil religions ? Are we to simply accept evil because people find a way around our constitution that allows them to disguise evil as religion ? Or shall we recognize that the first ammendment must be altered ?

QUOTE

The Northwest Ordinance- says: "Knowledge, morality, and religion being essential for the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education are to be forever encouraged."

Are we to deny everything that our founding fathers fought and died for? If we take away a students right to religious freedom in public schools then what the hell is next, will we eventually completely do away with religion period, no we can't do that!!! We would be playing Dictator, we are a Democracy, with Free enterprise we vote on things. Didn't we just try to get rid of Saddam Hussein, and was he not a Dictator?

we are not denying everything our founding fathers worked for , we are improving it by fixing it so people can not manipulate the laws they fought so hard to achieve for their own twisted goals . We do not fully take away religious freedom , we simply put on a few restrictions that are overall for the best of the entire world . People should believe what they want , but not if they believe they have some devine patent on truth and everyone else must die - thats just absurd ! Its just like drinking and driving - people love to drink , its fun , and a simple way to deal with problems . but we had to put a limit on how much alchohol one can have in their blood while driving because it was causing harm . The same thing needs to be done to religion .

<off debate>

this is one heck of an excellent debate . Cept I need to rest through responses since we are making them so wonderfully long ! But is that a bad thing ?

(\ /)
(0.0)
(><)
/_|_\
Frank The Rabbit: 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds. That is when the world will end.

Posted 28 July 2004 - 10:10 PM

Sorry it took me so long to reply.

Look Ive already made my points.

1. Religion is healthy it's food for the soul. Every living being on this planet deserves their right to religion, even christians. And children attending school and interacting with other students, need their religion more than anyone because of their development in life.

2. The law says man including students have the right to religion, which includes christianity. The law is the law, and thats the way it is like or or not, and like it or not the law is correct.

Look Ill end the debate right now, this is my conclusion.

Lets say Christianity including all religion was completely taken out of school, what would happen next?

School Uniforms? The discontinuation of Summer Vacation?

How do you think the students would feel, what about the teachers. If Christianity was taken out of schools their would be an uprising, riots would happen and many teachers would go on strike, so it would be ridiculous to even think about taking it away.

I have also found one more document which says we need our freedom of religion, including religious expression in our schools.

Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993

So why would all these documents protecting our rights be wrong? Why? They are not wrong!!! What would be wrong would be taking away our way of life, our freedom, and everything we as human beings have worked hard for to acheive. It's a disgrace to me to even hear that these power hungry politicians, who say they love this country, who say they take oath to this country, would even try to shame on our DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

Anyways Im through with this discussion Ive made my points loud and clear, and have done my research. Anything else coming out of my mouth would be backwash from repeated sentences.

TNO AND IM OUT YO. GOOD DEBATE XENOJJIN.

One night I ventured to my wooden rocking chair right outside my back porch, and I looked to the sky in the break of twilight, staring into the dark mirror of space, filled with sands of star dust, colossal supernovas and red giants, strings of wormholes and distant planets beyond my grasp. A place where tiny enigmatic hidden black holes tear through the fabric of space and time which, who knows; may lead into other dimensions and perhaps alternate realities. And as I look up at this heavens mirror which my hands can only reach so far through this looking glass, I felt an odd sensation of something looking back staring into my own eyes, staring into a whole other universe of which I new nothing about until I saw my reflection within it, and in that moment I then knew that the key which open the portal doors to parallel worlds was myself. "The Eyes of the Universe, Chris Landrum"

(\ /)
(0.0)
(><)
/_|_\
Frank The Rabbit: 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds. That is when the world will end.

Posted 28 July 2004 - 11:09 PM

Well I forgot countering so I will have to backtrack a little then I will be through.

QUOTE

The problem is , people do not control themselves , and cannot learn to do so . Some people do , some people self govern ... but the majority does not . Music is something people use to deal with life , to reflect upon themselves . Its insightfull .

What does religion have ? Religion is a set of values , a way of life . What if that religion is violent and intolerant ? Then that persons values and their way of life will have those elements as well . Are religious fanatics not currently blowing themselves up because of religion ? What if those people had religions that were tolerant of other religions ?

They would not be fighting now , would they ?

I am not going against religion in this debate , Im going against violent ones .. christianity fits the boat for violence quite nicely . Just read genesis 19:24 , exodus 9:9 , dueteronomy 6:15 , acts 3:23 , and romans 1:18 to see just how tolerant and peacefull christianity really is .

Thats a lie and you know it. Music is one of the biggest influences of violence in the world today. Gangster Rap, and even some metal bands contribute to violence in people.Second yes religious fanatics are blowing people up, but it the ones who are getting blown up are the Christians, by the damn Muslims, and Islams, but again people are also killing people because of Movies, and Music. For crying out loud we have gangsters killing each other over the colors blue and red (BLOODS, and CRIPS). People will always be violent and there is nothing we can do to stop it, taking away religion aka christianity, would make it worse. WAIT YES THERE IS A WAY TO STOP IT!!!! WE CAN TAKE AWAY EVERYONES FREEDOM AND LOCK PEOPLE IN CAGES AND WATCH THEM WITH SECURITY CAMERAS 24 HOURS A DAY!!!!

QUOTE

I was simply stating that such things can be accomplished without christianity - meaning that we dont really need it . which is better - a kind athiest who believes in freedom to choose people's own path's in life or a kind christian who believes everyone who doesnt follow the same godly path they follow must burn in hell for all eternity ?

Atheism is a religion in it's own, it to is way of life the only difference is that Atheism is only ingnoring God. AKA THANK GOD FOR ATHEISM. Atheism is just an fancy name for saying I don't give a damn if God exist or not, and can be catergorized as modern satanism, which is also a religion.

QUOTE

The first ammendment was a wise decision , yet it needs to be changed .

Why does it need to changed if it is wise? Second doing away with the first am, would mean harm to all mans freedom, not just religion. It's correct that is why it is here.

Well Im finally finished.

TNO AND IM FINALLY OUT YO!!!

Edited by The Nameless One, 28 July 2004 - 11:11 PM.

One night I ventured to my wooden rocking chair right outside my back porch, and I looked to the sky in the break of twilight, staring into the dark mirror of space, filled with sands of star dust, colossal supernovas and red giants, strings of wormholes and distant planets beyond my grasp. A place where tiny enigmatic hidden black holes tear through the fabric of space and time which, who knows; may lead into other dimensions and perhaps alternate realities. And as I look up at this heavens mirror which my hands can only reach so far through this looking glass, I felt an odd sensation of something looking back staring into my own eyes, staring into a whole other universe of which I new nothing about until I saw my reflection within it, and in that moment I then knew that the key which open the portal doors to parallel worlds was myself. "The Eyes of the Universe, Chris Landrum"

Lets say Christianity including all religion was completely taken out of school, what would happen next?

School Uniforms? The discontinuation of Summer Vacation?

Big differance .

Removing christianity is like removing mind control .

requiring school uniforms and removing summer vacation is adding mind control .

QUOTE

How do you think the students would feel, what about the teachers. If Christianity was taken out of schools their would be an uprising, riots would happen and many teachers would go on strike, so it would be ridiculous to even think about taking it away.

I have also found one more document which says we need our freedom of religion, including religious expression in our schools.

Removing christianity from schools would have to be a slow process . First of all kids need to be taught just exactly what goes on in their religion . Teach kids about the problems in the bible and what blindly believed religion has done to our society . Let it be known just how many countless lives would have been saved if it wasn't for evangelical religions . Slowly allow the world to realize just how stupid it is , and when their are virtually no level headed christians left - Ban it . Their is no need for a religion that protrays a loving god who sends people to eternal torture ... where people have every esscence of themselves stripped away except their ability to feel constant pain and agony for all eternity...just because they dont believe he exists .

QUOTE

Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993

once again these are the laws that need to be repaired so people cannot manipulate them . Free speach and free belief are wonderfull , but we should draw the line at things that have such utter nonsense and obviously apparent contradicts woven into them as christianity has .

Thats a lie and you know it. Music is one of the biggest influences of violence in the world today. Gangster Rap, and even some metal bands contribute to violence in people.

Music , the media , video games ... all of these have had a dramatic increase in violence over the past 15 years . Problem is , ever since the release of doom teenage violence has decreased by over 40 % . People would love to claim that the cause of violence lies in the media because it doesnt blame them , but it shifts the blame to something everyone can point a finger at . In reality all these people are doing is saying "I didnt do it" ., and obviously ignoring the statistical evidence which points in practically the opposite direction .

Religion on the other hand has been on a steady decrease ... and many young christians have not even read their own biblical text upon which their entire belief system is based on ( unlike the past where people were much more religious ) Keep in mind this is also during the time violence has been decreasing .

.

QUOTE

yes religious fanatics are blowing people up, but it the ones who are getting blown up are the Christians, by the damn Muslims, and Islams,

Christians are only not killing for their religion because currently most christians dont know what christianity is about . Since when was ignorance an excuse ? As for fanatic groups were people do understand the bible like westoboro baptist church which constantly holds protests shouting "GOD HATES FAGS!!!" "GOD HATES FAGS!!!" ( and by doing so , proving my point ) And muslims are not that differant from christians either , they even believe in the same god ! The god of abraham .

QUOTE

WAIT YES THERE IS A WAY TO STOP IT!!!! WE CAN TAKE AWAY EVERYONES FREEDOM AND LOCK PEOPLE IN CAGES AND WATCH THEM WITH SECURITY CAMERAS 24 HOURS A DAY!!!!

True , violence will never be stopped . But we can always help prevent it ---> removing idiocy and intolerance works much better then sitting around and letting people mock each other over a god who has been logically proven to not even exist .

Freedom is good , problem is idiots abuse it . It is because of this that we need to draw a line . And from the crusades of killing thousands of people to the burning of innocent young women because they were "devil worshipers" and to the simple playground area were children make fun of each other based on religion ( It does happen folks ) Christianity has proven itself to have crossed that line a long time ago