Mapas Depique wrote: I agree that to be able to turn of the touchscreen when using an external monitor would be great for the battery lifetime.

Can someone explain a bit more the 120fps windowed mode ? Maybe its something already out in another BM cam

Hi. Mapas.

Yes it will be nice to be able to turn the 5" LCD off when using an external monitor. But there must be a way to turn it on again. May be when you turn the Camera Power OFF. or May be if you take out the battery.

I also have the the 120fps windowed mode in my URSA Mini 4,6K, but never used it. Expect you can find more about it in the URSA Mini 4,6K manual.

Marcus, BM selected the Canon LPE-6/N (both versions will work, the N will last a little longer) because they are already using it on the Micro Cameras. The Sony NP would have been a better choice for the Micro camerss (larger batteries available) but would not work well on a handgrip/battery slot being used in the new BMPCC 2.

Yes, the new camera is kind of between the two original cameras, the BMCC (smaller design less square looking) and the Pocket (somewhat larger, with a hand grip/battery holder added, which was often requested in several threads. So we got an update for both cameras in one. Cheers

Does someone know if there is a small, light caddy/cage for SSDs that you can mount on or under the camera? At best it would have another mount available, so you could still use a tripod or a coldshoe-mount or something like that.

John Paines, I didn’t supply a link to the second of the B&H Photo review of the BMPCC4K showing the information card but I did you you the finally correct fact on the matter. If you can’t take it as fact, go to YouTube and search on “B&H Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K.”

It’s taken me longer to write this reply than to give you the link, but I must have a reason for going to all this trouble.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by rick.lang on Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I agree the stills portion will be a great addition. I'm constantly using the Pocket/Micro for "stills" related shots. The 3mp sensors produces excellent quality and upscales fantastically in Resolve. I can only imagine how great the new 12mp sensor's files are going to look.

MY Sample is 1080p-(3mp) upscaled to 4K in resolve then compressed to a 1mb file for the website. The full resolution DNG files look great coming out of the Micro

I'm super excited about this and am seriously considering pre-ordering one. However I remember the long wait we all had to endure for the UM 4.6K. I waited for about six months for mine to finally arrive from Germany (and I don't even live there, my local supplier gave me a 24 month estimate). I also remember bad early batches with serious fixed pattern noise among other gremlins...

Just thinking out aloud, should I pre-order (and face the wrath of my wife) or wait for the BMPCC4K (what a mouthfull) to hit the shelves...As much as I love my wife - Sometimes its better to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission

Remarkable Tech Specs aside, given this is billed as a 'Cinema' camera, we can take it that it will need rigging with additional equipment for optimum use so what I can't follow is why BMD didn't simply produce a cubic alloy 'cheese plate' sensor block with the same on-board audio features? This would have encouraged me to buy even more BMD accessories then bolt them on to make a workable camera for custom requirements. The odd, statuesque, almost '5D' form factor certainly won't fit in my Pocket and with no EVF or even flip-up LCD, it's unlikely that I could use it outdoors as it stands, in the bright Australian sunshine. I feel another 'Meccano Set' build coming on and I really hoped we might have moved beyond that scenario.

Luke Mason upload on eoshd.com/comments/topic/26940-blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-4k/?page=46 few jpg grabs from pocket 4k from nab setup. As he said - they did not tape the card slot so he recorded few clips

Timothy Cook wrote:I agree the stills portion will be a great addition. I'm constantly using the Pocket/Micro for "stills" related shots. The 3mp sensors produces excellent quality and upscales fantastically in Resolve. I can only imagine how great the new 12mp sensor's files are going to look.

MY Sample is 1080p-(3mp) upscaled to 4K in resolve then compressed to a 1mb file for the website. The full resolution DNG files look great coming out of the Micro

Erica1.jpg

Tim do you know where the 12mp stills file info comes from as I've been trying to find out but seen nothing from BM? Many thanks.

Craig Marshall wrote:Remarkable Tech Specs aside, given this is billed as a 'Cinema' camera, we can take it that it will need rigging with additional equipment for optimum use so

I think, if I can say so, you're interrogating a marketing strategy and expecting to get a technological justification. But there is none. It's a cinema camera for imaginary cinema. Or it's the kind of cinema which used to be shot on a Canon 5D.

Not to put too fine a point on it, this is the stuff dreams are made of. And, bog blast it, I'm also in the queue for one.....

No matter that the most successful no-budget films of all time mostly look like crap. The camera serves it purpose and some mad man or mad woman with the right material and a good eye may some day make a minor masterpiece with it for next to nothing. Didn't happen with the Pocket, but you never know.... This aspirational market niche will never make any rational sense, its food is desire.

Timothy Cook wrote:I agree the stills portion will be a great addition. I'm constantly using the Pocket/Micro for "stills" related shots. The 3mp sensors produces excellent quality and upscales fantastically in Resolve. I can only imagine how great the new 12mp sensor's files are going to look.

MY Sample is 1080p-(3mp) upscaled to 4K in resolve then compressed to a 1mb file for the website. The full resolution DNG files look great coming out of the Micro

Erica1.jpg

Tim do you know where the 12mp stills file info comes from as I've been trying to find out but seen nothing from BM? Many thanks.

Iain, I was listing the sensor pixel count more than the file size. A 1080p sensor is actually 2.07mp I said 3mp to be generous. I'm only assuming 12mp for the new sensor because we don't know if it will contain more area than 4096x2160 which equals a 8.8mp sensor. 12 maybe a little generous but it's definitely a 9mp sensor.

As for file sizes once converted to cDNG and depending on what's in the scene, some one else will have to give you a better answer. I do know BMD list the data rates on the P4K in the Tech Spec tab on their website.

Does anyone know if it does have slow shutter? I mean like 1/2s 1/4s, for low light and timelapse. I always missed this features in BMPCC, which should not be (I guess) to hard to implement in it's operating system....

@Timothy: stupid me, I didn't think about upscaling BMPCC footage in Resolve to get better quality stills out of it. Must try it tomorrow. Now that V15 has new upscaling option the result should be even better! P.S.cool photo btw...

Timothy Cook wrote:I agree the stills portion will be a great addition. I'm constantly using the Pocket/Micro for "stills" related shots. The 3mp sensors produces excellent quality and upscales fantastically in Resolve. I can only imagine how great the new 12mp sensor's files are going to look.

MY Sample is 1080p-(3mp) upscaled to 4K in resolve then compressed to a 1mb file for the website. The full resolution DNG files look great coming out of the Micro

Erica1.jpg

Tim do you know where the 12mp stills file info comes from as I've been trying to find out but seen nothing from BM? Many thanks.

Iain, I was listing the sensor pixel count more than the file size. A 1080p sensor is actually 2.07mp I said 3mp to be generous. I'm only assuming 12mp for the new sensor because we don't know if it will contain more area than 4096x2160 which equals a 8.8mp sensor. 12 maybe a little generous but it's definitely a 9mp sensor.

As for file sizes once converted to cDNG and depending on what's in the scene, some one else will have to give you a better answer. I do know BMD list the data rates on the P4K in the Tech Spec tab on their website.

Good points...... I guess we wait and see. Thank you for your reply. I guess it's feasible that processed from RAW to Tiff you end up with a 30mb file. That's certainly very usable, particularly if the shadow/highlight detail is good, nice roll offs, no falling off a cliff!

Just gonna post this here. They’re still calling it a prototype, so who knows. But I think the vents and the mics should be moved around. The mics the way they are are probably gotta pick up your hands operating the camera, and fingers might hit the mic’s. Also, I prefer the tally light up above the lense. Looks better there in my opinion, and a more Ursa/Micro look. A bit redundent to have two tallies, so maybe turn the right one into a flashlight/flash for photos, and as a light source for documentary work in the dark. Vents might not work best where I put them, and maybe could be put somewhere else, but away from the mics is definitely ideal. But hey, the micro had vents on the sides, and not above, so who knows.

The cameras being show at NAB are “Pre-Production” models, and pretty much what they will be except for the composite case, which will be lighter than the displayed cameras. The sensor is a 10MB sensor.Cheers

Kim Janson wrote:The bad thing about this is that I have been thinking getting Davinci Resolve studio for a while and it just got even more interesting, but now waiting that will get it with the camera...

Same for me. My old BMPCC is just limping along, fixed a broken power input but now lens contacts not working.Was not happy with the other options out there but the BMPCC4K looks just right for my purposes.

Can anyone confirm if what I have read about the USB-C for recording to is correct.. that it will support the ability to record 12-bit raw to an external ssd? I mean, if they are using the Gen2 interface, it can certainly support the speeds at up to 1GB/s and most SSDs are 400MB/s to 550MB/s write speeds.

The only issue I see with this, is you get about 1 hour of 4K CinemaDNG per 1TB drive.

What is the data write speed needed to record 4K 60fps (4096x2160) 12-bit raw? Can it be done over USB-C?

Chris Chiasson wrote:Just gonna post this here. They’re still calling it a prototype, so who knows. But I think the vents and the mics should be moved around.

To trap hot air in the entire upper portion of the case and have the other half stream past the microphones when it rises?Carbon fiber+resins don't make nearly as good a conductor for heat as metals are.

Kim Janson wrote:Maybe some company will make a one eye loop for that camera, but those are typically 200 to 500 USD.The problem with these solutions is the touch screen. Is it possible to use the camera witout the touch screen?

With all of the dedicated and programmable buttons, sure you can run it without the touch screen - it was definitely designed to do both.

Also there are already a few great 5" loupes for the RED. This one is about $250 https://www.gridaccessories.com/product ... iewfinder/ . They're great because they have magnetic frames that allow you to use the touch screen and easily pop the VF on and off as you need to. With this screen it should look great.

Quote: UHS-II cards can be used for recording Ultra HD in ProRes at up to 60 frames per second and RAW at up to 30 frames per second. CFast cards can record 12-bit RAW at all supported frame rates.'

I expect the reason that they don't give any number for SSD UBC-C is that it will depend on what kind of SSD Drive.

I can tell you that I last year Tested writing Raw ( not RAW 3:1 ) UHD 50 fps on my URSA Mini 4,6K to a Samsung SSD 850 Pro 512 GB. But I used a CFast to SATA cable connected from the CFast slot and to the 850 Pro SSD. The reason I used the 850 Pro SSD and not the 850 Evo SSD was that I on anandtech.com had read that the Pro has higher sequential write rates than tho Evo. Later I read that it only will be susses full for 50 fps and not for 60 fps. But I am not sure.

For your information is the Uncompressed CinemaDNG Raw around 500MB/s on the URSA Mini.

Piotr, thanks for the link to the sample stills. In that forum discussion, we find:

“The sensor is confirmed to be IMX294CJK, it's the STARVIS line from Sony Semicon with BSI design, originally intended for low light surveillance.”

I hope before the end of this year, assuming the camera is released by September, we’ll be able to see what Resolve will do with ProRes raw. However the samples posted look promising. And the sensor is well known which may be a good thing for us.

That will encourage some healthy competition among camera vendors and software vendors to derive the ‘best’ images from the sensor. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” but some superb technical tools from BMD aren’t going to hurt! And we shall eventually be able to compare CinemaDNG with ProRes raw which should be illuminating.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by rick.lang on Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

This is just as the Ursa Mini Pro. Its a frame grab. I think they are marketing this WAY wrong. People think it take stills.. well.. no. It grabs a frame. Like a video for 1 frame. The format is DNG which you can convert to whatever you want afterwards. As it is a frame grab it will be at the resoultion you have choosen in-camera. So for 4K DCI it is 4096 x 2160 = 8.8mp.

I would not buy this for taking stills - unless you are a cinema guy and don't experct a "regular" stills camera as there is no dedicated stills functions and no mechanical shutter. But for taking a BTS frame grab its fine.

--- Monitor ---

The monitor is the same as the one found on their Ursa Mini 4K and 4.6K (not pro 4"). So expect what you get from that and not like 1000 nits. I think it was Stuart from BMD who said it - as a source.

Native ISO values are 400 and 3200. So 1600 ISO will be very clean as it is actually a -1 from the 3200. And i would expect ISO 800 to be more noisy as it is a +1. But lets see.

They are using the Sony Starvis IMX294CJK sensor designed by Mr. Isoo , Mr. Takamoto @ Sony. The same that is found in the GH5S, Terra 4K and Z Cam E2. This is a fantastic sensor much more modern than the older Fairchild stuff they have been using.

A sensor Sony had marketed towards "Security Camera and Industrial Applications".. I bet they did not see the huge cinema adortion for it.

The biggest "problem" for this sensor is that it "only" has 13 stops of DR. It cannot compare to "real" cinema sensors going for 15+ stops. For most, it won't be a problem though. But I think thats why they chose to put in a succesor to the Pocket/Original BMCC. As for their flagship they want 15(or +) stops of DR.

The sensor can actually do 120fps in 4K but of cause they chose this route instead with a smaller body.

I think it funny to look at the markedet and observere how Panasonic, Kinefinity and Blackmagic all have gone for sperate things. Gh5S pushing for compactness and therefore only delivering 10bit 400mbps. And in a marketing perspective it suits the Panny lineup perfect with the dual native ISO also found in the Varicam and EVA-1.Kinefintity going for much more with almost maxing out the sensor specs. 4K 100fps internal raw 12bit and opto 240fps in 1920x800 2K wide. And still in a compact setup. But for 4-6 times the cost of the BMPCC4K.And then BMD going for a more conservative spec but still huuuuge specs compared to GH5S but at a price no-body would imagine.. I think they could sell just as many BMPCC4K at a price of 2.000$.

MarcusWolschon wrote:So a "still" is limited to no more then 1/24th of a second of exposure time and has just the 1-point autofocus?(Apart from the obviously missing flash hot-shoe with TTL pin or flash sync port.)

The "still" (i call it what is is - a frame grab), is a frame of the settings you have applied. So yes. if you are going for 180 degree shutter angle and are in 24p mode you have a 1/12shutter time - in a electronic shutter (so rolling).

AF works just as with all the other BMD cameras. if you want to use AF you first have to press the AF button, then the frame grab button.

I heard that comment about the 5” screen, but why would BMD setup customers for disappointment calling that a “superbright” screen on their webpages if they haven’t pumped up the nits?

I use the 5” screen on the URSA Mini 4.6K with a moveable screen and it’s wonderful on an overcast day, but intensely bright sun and it’s near useless, except for menu setting changes and framing, while I rely on the truly super BMVF for focus and exposure etc.

When you win a lottery, you know there are some humongous SSD drives that you can write to for hours via the USB-C connection (assuming you have the power to operate for hours too).

Many times you’ll rely on the battery for power, so we just need to get used to having a half dozen charged batteries at a shoot.

Don’t lose site of the cost of the camera which is probably a steal. With the money you save, you add some things to suit your purposes. That’s going to be true of any camera I should think.

Please be a little thoughtful of the people that have ‘killed’ themselves to bring you this camera and show them some love! It’s been written that you can’t survive on adrenalin alone; adrenaline gets the camera built. But now is the time to flood their addled brains with some natural endorphins so they can recharge their batteries. Without it, there’s only crash and burn.

rick.lang wrote:Please be a little thoughtful of the people that have ‘killed’ themselves to bring you this camera and show them some love! It’s been written that you can’t survive on adrenalin alone; adrenaline gets the camera built. But now is the time to flood their addled brains with some natural endorphins so they can recharge their batteries. Without it, there’s only crash and burn.

+1

Also If power is an issue. Just get a v-mount belt setup and run it into the 12v locking port. And you still have the internal LP-E6 (if you bought one as it does not come with the camera) as a backup.. Much better than the BMCC (which I still think was innovative for including a backup battery - but required external power to be "Productive").. This is the same i think. But you can swap the battery out this is much better as you CAN bring 5-10x LP-E6(N)s with out IF you wanted to.

Chris Chiasson wrote:Just gonna post this here. They’re still calling it a prototype, so who knows. But I think the vents and the mics should be moved around.

To trap hot air in the entire upper portion of the case and have the other half stream past the microphones when it rises?Carbon fiber+resins don't make nearly as good a conductor for heat as metals are.

Again, the Micro Camera also has vents to the sides, because whatever hot air is inside is pushed out by the fans. Any regrets with the Micro? But like I said, I was more putting the vents there to cover the mic’s in the mock up. Ideally they’d be higher up, and bigger then what I put in the mock-up.

rick.lang wrote:Wayne, it seems a stretch to criticize a camera that costs $1,295 because it doesn’t support 14bit colour with 16-17 stops dynamic range. Who knows what next year will bring, but what this camera and software bundle includes seems both a great value and a great stepping stone for many of its target market in 2018.

The dual ISO capability of the sensor has been used presumably to provide a wide range of ISO values rather than have even higher dynamic range with a much shorter range of shooting ISO values if that’s even a possible trade off which it may not be.

I need to watch that part of the presentation again and stop it on the portion where Grant had a slide that showed the dynamic range at various ISO values.

If the sensor supported it, there might be a way that 2K/HD could be implemented using the full 4K sensor to improve dynamic range, but I’m no sensor engineer to know if that could work to add one more stop.

All this sounds too much to expect today from a ‘pocket camera.’ Maybe the Pocket Pro in a few years as was previously mentioned.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you looked at the new generation of last year's I inch sensors and cameras.l, and the cmosis aptina sensors?

As I've written before, down scaling can render extra stops, depending on how you do it. Each pixel renders up to 25% luminance of a 2k pixel. But "up to" means it's complex.

Anyway, an extra three or so good stops from HDR would be ok.

aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anythingbTruthful side topics in-line with or related to, the discussion acceptedcOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them