For many police officers, their "training" means standing in an indoor range, slowly drawing the pistol, clicking off the safety, firing a shot into center mass, and reholstering. And in a real gunfight, that's what they'll do, and they will die.

Or miss. And miss, and miss, and miss, and miss. I read a story once of 4 street cops who opened fire at a crazed gunman at a range of 15 feet, emptying their semiautos. The bad guy killed two of them. Not a single one of their shots hit the target? Why? They were following their training: draw, safety off, fire, reholster.

Really? What department is this? We had turning targets and at 7 yards you have 2 seconds to draw and score 3 hits on one stage. Any body getting shot at tends to miss shots. If you have a link I would like to read the story.

One thing that surprised me is that he chose to go prone in a highly mobile fight like that. When I read that, I was reminded of the Mark Wilson Tyler shooting as well where he comes around the car and shoots Wilson as he is prone.

I am not sure that Mark Wilson intentionally was prone at that point. He was already shot at that moment. If he did go prone intentionally, it apparently wasn't to fight. Witnesses watched Wilson exchange shots with Arroyo over the hood of Arroyo's truck. Wilson got hit, faultered, and collapsed face down behind the truck. He apparently was out of the fight, possibly didn't think he could move, and if intentional was making himself less of a target. That was when Arroyo walked around the truck and shot Wilson on the ground.

__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

This is why I as a Civilian has taken 5 "Gun Fighting Classes" in the last 2.5 years to learn how to kill the BG when it counts while CCW because I cannot carry a Policeman with me when needed. What I have learned is not taught in their "Qualification Courses". One of the courses included Force on Force using Air Soft with an opponent that shoots back. I consider myself a few steps above most Police Officers on street duty. There are a few S.W.A.T. guys that can school me in some tactics.

This is why I as a Civilian has taken 5 "Gun Fighting Classes" in the last 2.5 years to learn how to kill the BG when it counts while CCW because I cannot carry a Policeman with me when needed. What I have learned is not taught in their "Qualification Courses". One of the courses included Force on Force using Air Soft with an opponent that shoots back. I consider myself a few steps above most Police Officers on street duty.

This depends on the courses you attended and the instructors. Most larger PD's these days have a little more progressive training than you may think. You may consider yourself good, but the cop can call the Calvary, and it will come.

I have found that cops have a broad spectrum of shooters in the ranks. Some very good, some not so much.

Without fail however, I have seen cops much better at producing the weapons, clearing failures, and reloads under pressure than your average gun owner.

That's not bashing anyone, just my personal experience from 16 years in LE and my time in the military. The vast majority of gun owners I see at my gun club and at public ranges may shoot the center out of the target, but when the gun goes click, they stare at it for the count of 5, then attempt reload. When it fails, they stare at it longer and then attempt to clear it. The cops I know clear the weapon or reload imediately. Just my .02 cents.

Quote:
This is why I as a Civilian has taken 5 "Gun Fighting Classes" in the last 2.5 years to learn how to kill the BG when it counts while CCW because I cannot carry a Policeman with me when needed. What I have learned is not taught in their "Qualification Courses". One of the courses included Force on Force using Air Soft with an opponent that shoots back. I consider myself a few steps above most Police Officers on street duty.

This depends on the courses you attended and the instructors. Most larger PD's these days have a little more progressive training than you may think. You may consider yourself good, but the cop can call the Calvary, and it will come.

more importantly, who cares? Unless you're duking it out with cops (which is wrong on so many levels) it has nothing to do with how good you are vs. you're average cop. Its how good you are vs. your average BG that counts.

more importantly, who cares? Unless you're duking it out with cops (which is wrong on so many levels) it has nothing to do with how good you are vs. you're average cop. Its how good you are vs. your average BG that counts.

How good is the average BG? How do you know? How do you know that the BG you might some day meet up with will be the average BG? Could he turn out to be as good as the BGs in the Miami Shootout? Could he turn out to be as good as the BGs in the North Hollywood Shootout?

You can't know until you get there. And if your skills at the time aren't up to the task, you'll be very unhappy with how things turn out.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

This email link is to reach site administrators for assistance, if you cannot access TFL via other means. If you are a TFL member and can access TFL, please do not use this link; instead, use the forums (like Questions, Suggestions, and Tech Support) or PM an appropriate mod or admin.

If you are experiencing difficulties posting in the Buy/Sell/Trade subforums of TFL, please read the "sticky" announcement threads at the top of the applicable subforum. If you still feel you are qualified to post in those subforums, please contact "Shane Tuttle" (the mod for that portion of TFL) via Private Message for assistance.

This email contact address is not an "Ask the Firearms Expert" service. Such emails will be ignored. If you have a firearm related question, please register and post it on the forums.