Simply winning an election, especially one skewed to over-represent useless white trash in flyover country, is not a great measure of what is right or just.

This hatred for the working class is exactly why the DNC may never win another election.

Why all this love suddenly for the working class? The Republicans never cared for them before. Previously, Conservative parties were only too eager to throw the working class under the proverbial bus in order to better help their wealthy corporate friends in the name of furthering capitalism.

Talk about a remarkable U-turn. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are the true friends of the working class and their rights at work.

You can say what you want, but I do care very greatly about the working class, that was background and upbringing. I certainly care more than all of those snotty politicians from both sides in your country.

Talk about a remarkable U-turn. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are the true friends of the working class and their rights at work.

You can say what you want, but I do care very greatly about the working class, that was background and upbringing. I certainly care more than all of those snotty politicians from both sides in your country.

I don't see any u-turn. Trump has already started to screw the working class, by letting banks run free again, he's proposing to cut taxes for the rich again, the plan to repeal the ACA, etc.

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

The law actually says that the president can direct the AG to wiretap for up to a year. The AG needs to attest under seal that they are recording foreign powers and tell congress.

Its very possible that Obama and Lynch stretched the boundaries of the law. Which would mean felony charges.

Regardless, Obamas spokesperson lied today when he said that the president can't order wire taps. It also sounds to me like the neverTrumpers in congress knew about it.

Heads they will be a rolling

You're letting your sexual fantasies get in the way of reality. More than likely what happened here was that, just like with the Sweden comment, Trump got this from some right-wing 'alternative facts' source, where they've been fantasising about some secret plane for a 'silent coup' by Obama for a while. That has included suggestions Obama was wiretapping Trump. No evidence of course, BUT it was said in a very loud voice, and so it MUST be true! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wbf8g5ilOo

Given the damage Putin and his 5th colum did to the United States in a brief period of time, he may very well dawn a pilot suit and proclaim "mission accomplished".It becomes hard to see how the USA is going to come back from this, and not go the way of the USSR.

And when I say immaturity, I mean the kind displayed by children in schoolyards.

But then it shouldn't be surprising. The man was born and raised in a cocoon. He was given everything, made to feel like the most important person in the World and every single of his whim has always been complied with.

Money allowed him to make it through a prestigious college despite his apparent lack of intelligence and knowledge.

He then transitioned from this completely detached childhood to an adulthood in which he was given dozens of millions of dollars to start a business. He eventually managed to turn this into a relatively successful brand, though at the cost of many hiccups and bankruptcies.The way he runs his businesses is interesting as well. He keeps everything in the family. He has never had to answer to anyone. He always wants absolute control over everything. Just as it was his whole life, he simply continued to expect admiration and respect, was allowed to treat his subordinates the way he wanted by threatening them with their job. When he was confronted with detractors or whenever anyone opposed him, he would spend money on lawyers to bully his way through the justice system until he got what he wanted.The lack of any negative feedback in his life means his ego has always been nurtured to the point where he has built a metaphorical wall around it with which he refutes anything that would hurt it.

This is quite apparent in his current behavior. Being president is the first time his actions and words are being put under so much scrutiny and criticism, and he is having trouble adjusting to it. This explains the constant flailing at everybody and everything to make up for his shortcomings, from blaming millions of fictitious illegal voters for his loss of the popular vote to blaming Hillary and Obama for everything that he is currently grappling with. All off the cuff and with no substance whatsoever.

He is almost quite literally a 70 year old with the mind of a spoiled 10 year old.I have trouble understanding what quality anyone would see in the man. I honestly do. Nothing in his behavior appears to show any trace of anything other than narcissism, egotism, greed and contempt for almost everyone but his peers and those who suck up to him.Why anybody thinks he is a good fit for presidency is a complete mystery to me.And anybody who thinks he would do anything to help America's working class despite and entire life of demonstrating he has no interest or will of doing so and his sizable track record as a liar has been quite thoroughly duped.

True to his nature, this will be nothing be another unsubstantiated wild accusation used to protect his own ego.I am amazed by how much he can get away with as a President whereas any of his predecessor saying or doing a tenth of the outrageous things he says or does would have been crucified already.One of his days, however, he will find the limit, even if this limit has somehow been largely widened for him.

I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.

I look forward to the coming weeks where we will no doubt see the user you were replying to repeatedly trumpet about how Obama got arrested for this and claim that to be evidence in each and every political thread here.

lugie wrote:

That being said I firmly believe it is just that, another lie, because if he had even the slightest bit of evidence, he would have tweeted it along.

Agreed. He would have inflated the truth bigly if there really was any substance to the claim. Just like how he says that he's worth 10 billion.

lugie wrote:

The only way this might seriously hurt him is if it in fact turned out true because that would mean that (leaving aside the entirely crazy idea that Obama personally send one of his Secret Service agents there on a special mission to tap the Tower) there was an order from some judge who thinks there was reason enough to start bugging the apartment. Which would inevitably link to the Russia story again.

None of Trump's followers have been swayed by the Russia stuff no matter how much evidence is presented to them and instead bend over backwards to defend the president, even when he shits on America so that he can defend the Russian president.....so why would they abandon him now? It's basically a religion at this point.

salttee wrote:

He said under oath (the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth) while answering the question: "If there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?"

His answer was:"Senator Frankin I am not aware of any of those activities I have been called a surrogate a time or two in that campaign, I did not have communications with the Russians, I am unable to comment on it."

Sessions out and out lied while trying to evade Frankin's question.

In fairness, I suspect that most of us would answer the question in a similar manor. Not a great idea to make one's time spent hanging out with Russia's top spy public knowledge.

TheF15Ace wrote:

Funny how the uneducated, unemployed hicks with no marketable skills, who spend most of their time shouting ''muh jobssss'' are suddenly considered the working class.

Indeed!

BestWestern wrote:

On Twitter, President Trump went from accusing Obama of wiretapping to trolling Arnold within a few moments and then went to play golf.

Donald just doesn't understand the presidency.

He's playing golf yet again???

Francoflier wrote:

Money allowed him to make it through a prestigious college despite his apparent lack of intelligence and knowledge.

The law actually says that the president can direct the AG to wiretap for up to a year. The AG needs to attest under seal that they are recording foreign powers and tell congress.

Its very possible that Obama and Lynch stretched the boundaries of the law. Which would mean felony charges.

Regardless, Obamas spokesperson lied today when he said that the president can't order wire taps. It also sounds to me like the neverTrumpers in congress knew about it.

Heads they will be a rolling

You're letting your sexual fantasies get in the way of reality. More than likely what happened here was that, just like with the Sweden comment, Trump got this from some right-wing 'alternative facts' source, where they've been fantasising about some secret plane for a 'silent coup' by Obama for a while. That has included suggestions Obama was wiretapping Trump. No evidence of course, BUT it was said in a very loud voice, and so it MUST be true! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wbf8g5ilOo

Ummmm, ok, that's just weird. But whatever.

It is clear based on the law that Obamas spokesperson, Ben Rhodes lied when he said that "no president can order a wiretap". The president clearly can. There is nothing sexual about it, so keep your weird bs comments to yourself.

It is clear based on the law that Obamas spokesperson, Ben Rhodes lied when he said that "no president can order a wiretap". The president clearly can. There is nothing sexual about it, so keep your weird bs comments to yourself.

I know the concept of truth is being redefined in the US at the moment, but this is not necessarily a lie, if what you say is true that the president can order it, that person could just be unaware.

Also from what you're saying he can order it but it's not a lone wolf process, so the spokesperson might just be saying "the president can't do it alone".

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

It is clear based on the law that Obamas spokesperson, Ben Rhodes lied when he said that "no president can order a wiretap". The president clearly can. There is nothing sexual about it, so keep your weird bs comments to yourself.

Touch a nerve there, did I?

Anyway, perhaps you should read what the law you quote actually says: the president can ONLY order wiretaps if they are for conversations or any kind of communication EXCLUSIVELY between FOREIGNERS. Since Trump isn't a foreigner, the president can't order a wiretap. It's that simple. And since Rhodes' tweet specified that the regulations were put in place to protect CITIZENS from people like Trump, it's pretty clear that he was referring to the president being unable to order wiretaps of American citizens.

But I do understand that you're trying to shift focus away from the very obvious but inconvenient truth that your buddy, the actual president, outright LIED when he accused his predecessor of a crime.

Tell me, socalgeo, if this accusation turns out to be a lie, and Trump has NOTHING to back it up, what should happen to Trump? Should he or shouldn't he be allowed to simply get away with it, and would you find this level of lie acceptable or not?

It is clear based on the law that Obamas spokesperson, Ben Rhodes lied when he said that "no president can order a wiretap". The president clearly can. There is nothing sexual about it, so keep your weird bs comments to yourself.

Ben Rhodes' complete statement:

“The president of the United States does not have the authority to unilaterally order the wiretapping of an American citizen,”

You can't make this shit up, you really can't. Most of the Republicans in Congress are doing whatever they can to block investigations into the administration's relationship with Russia and the hacking of the elections, even with a trail of evidence suggesting something is up. But it seems more than a few are ready to investigate claims made by 45 that are totally unsubstantiated and with no proof offered.

He said under oath (the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth) while answering the question: "If there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?"

His answer was:"Senator Frankin I am not aware of any of those activities I have been called a surrogate a time or two in that campaign, I did not have communications with the Russians, I am unable to comment on it."

Sessions out and out lied while trying to evade Frankin's question.

In fairness, I suspect that most of us would answer the question in a similar manor. Not a great idea to make one's time spent hanging out with Russia's top spy public knowledge.

He wasn't asked whether he had any Russian contact, he blundered into that territory while trying to evade Frankin's question.

It is clear based on the law that Obamas spokesperson, Ben Rhodes lied when he said that "no president can order a wiretap". The president clearly can. There is nothing sexual about it, so keep your weird bs comments to yourself.

Touch a nerve there, did I?

Anyway, perhaps you should read what the law you quote actually says: the president can ONLY order wiretaps if they are for conversations or any kind of communication EXCLUSIVELY between FOREIGNERS. Since Trump isn't a foreigner, the president can't order a wiretap. It's that simple. And since Rhodes' tweet specified that the regulations were put in place to protect CITIZENS from people like Trump, it's pretty clear that he was referring to the president being unable to order wiretaps of American citizens.

But I do understand that you're trying to shift focus away from the very obvious but inconvenient truth that your buddy, the actual president, outright LIED when he accused his predecessor of a crime.

Tell me, socalgeo, if this accusation turns out to be a lie, and Trump has NOTHING to back it up, what should happen to Trump? Should he or shouldn't he be allowed to simply get away with it, and would you find this level of lie acceptable or not?

Well we will just have to see how it plays out. We do know for a fact that Trump and his team were targeted for wiretaps. We also know that there were wiretaps that recorded Trump and his team. These facts are not in question.

We know that laws were broken when content from these wiretaps were leaked to the press. We also know that US citizens were recorded on these wiretaps, which is also against the law. These facts by themselves justify an investigation.

Pretty straight forward actually. It's not much of a leap to question the legality of any of it. Obama was in charge at the time, and it has been established that he was aware of the bugging.

It is clear based on the law that Obamas spokesperson, Ben Rhodes lied when he said that "no president can order a wiretap". The president clearly can. There is nothing sexual about it, so keep your weird bs comments to yourself.

Ben Rhodes' complete statement:

“The president of the United States does not have the authority to unilaterally order the wiretapping of an American citizen,”

A 70 year old wealthy New York man who gets his news from cable news, spends his weekends in Florida now thinks the government is listening to his phone calls. That's your crazy grandpa.

Crazy like a fox.

Yep, he's been giving wonderful gifts to wall street and the super wealthy with his policies, while claiming to be for the working class. All he's done is try to take awaythe benefits they gained under Obama

however, the tide is changing, a small hand of supporters showed up for pro-Trump rallies yesterday, (punt intended) his approval rating is dismal. Now he's got himself into a intellectual chess game with Obama. that' he's going to lose.

Last edited by DLFREEBIRD on Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

A 70 year old wealthy New York man who gets his news from cable news, spends his weekends in Florida now thinks the government is listening to his phone calls. That's your crazy grandpa.

Crazy like a fox.

Yep, he's been giving wonderful gifts to wall street and the super wealthy with his policies, while claiming to be for the working class. All he's done is try to take awaythe benefits they gained under Obama.

Yep, he's been giving wonderful gifts to wall street and the super wealthy with his policies, while claiming to be for the working class. All he's done is try to take awaythe benefits they gained under Obama.

Please stay on topic.....

Oh right, you want to stay on topic about your fantasy that Obama ordered the Tapp.

Yep, he's been giving wonderful gifts to wall street and the super wealthy with his policies, while claiming to be for the working class. All he's done is try to take awaythe benefits they gained under Obama.

Please stay on topic.....

Oh right, you want to stay on topic about your fantasy that Obama ordered the Tapp.

All he's done is try to take away the benefits they gained under Obama

I don't think he's 'done' anything to be honest.

The man simply signs anything the Republicans push on his desk. That's why they're so intent on defending him at all costs.He's even strongly rumoured to not even read most of them. In fact, he doesn't read much at all. He's been reportedly asking his aides to put everything in single paragraph summaries with lots of pictures, maps and diagrams.

All that reading and actually working on policies wouldn't allow him to play golf every weekend, and that would simply not be acceptable, now, would it?

socalgeo wrote:

Please stay on topic.....

You mean the one about Trump and people like yourself inventing theories that say that Obama could have headed a conspiracy to spy on Trump?

Well, there also the theory that I've had an affair with Kate Middleton and that one of the royal babies is mine. It is possible after all...But the problem here is that the burden of proof befalls the accuser. Consequently, the World awaits Trump's substantiation of the accusation.

I won't hold my breath. We're still waiting for him to find 3 to 5 million illegal voters.

I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.

All he's done is try to take away the benefits they gained under Obama

I don't think he's 'done' anything to be honest.

The man simply signs anything the Republicans push on his desk. That's why they're so intent on defending him at all costs.He's even strongly rumoured to not even read most of them. In fact, he doesn't read much at all. He's been reportedly asking his aides to put everything in single paragraph summaries with lots of pictures, maps and diagrams.

All that reading and actually working on policies wouldn't allow him to play golf every weekend, and that would simply not be acceptable, now, would it?

socalgeo wrote:

Please stay on topic.....

You mean the one about Trump and people like yourself inventing theories that say that Obama could have headed a conspiracy to spy on Trump?

Well, there also the theory that I've had an affair with Kate Middleton and that one of the royal babies is mine. It is possible after all...But the problem here is that the burden of proof befalls the accuser. Consequently, the World awaits Trump's substantiation of the accusation.

I won't hold my breath. We're still waiting for him to find 3 to 5 million illegal voters.

I know I've won the debate when this type of silly comment is offered.

Well done !

somebody being silly, if they think they won a fantasy based debate

It's not a fantasy when the one making the accusations is the President of the United States, with the full power if the federal government to investigate and prosecute crimes against the constitution. Like I said, we'll see how it plays out......

I know I've won the debate when this type of silly comment is offered.

Well done !

somebody being silly, if they think they won a fantasy based debate

It's not a fantasy when the one making the accusations is the President of the United States, with the full power if the federal government to investigate and prosecute crimes against the constitution. Like I said, we'll see how it plays out......

Well we will just have to see how it plays out. We do know for a fact that Trump and his team were targeted for wiretaps. We also know that there were wiretaps that recorded Trump and his team. These facts are not in question.

We know that laws were broken when content from these wiretaps were leaked to the press. We also know that US citizens were recorded on these wiretaps, which is also against the law. These facts by themselves justify an investigation.

Pretty straight forward actually. It's not much of a leap to question the legality of any of it. Obama was in charge at the time, and it has been established that he was aware of the bugging.

Was it legal? What did he know, and when did he know it?

You're dodging the question. It's starting to look more and more like Trump was basing his accusations on a Breitbart article and a lunatic talk show host's fantasies. So what do you think should happen if Trump indeed turns out to have been lying?

I know I've won the debate when this type of silly comment is offered.

Well done !

No, actually, you LOST this debate with that first question. Nobody needs to prove Trump was lying, that's not how this works. HE is the one making the claim, that means he has to back it up with evidence. Which he hasn't done, and won't do. And no doubt, you'll be here defending him not doing so.

It's very hard if not impossible to prove a negative, which is what you're asking people to do. Redd was illustrating that with the Easter Bubby comparison. The fact you called that a 'silly comment' is exactly the point: it is meant to be just as silly a comment as your comment he's responding to.

I know I've won the debate when this type of silly comment is offered.

Well done !

No, actually, you LOST this debate with that first question. Nobody needs to prove Trump was lying, that's not how this works. HE is the one making the claim, that means he has to back it up with evidence. Which he hasn't done, and won't do. And no doubt, you'll be here defending him not doing so.

It's very hard if not impossible to prove a negative, which is what you're asking people to do. Redd was illustrating that with the Easter Bubby comparison. The fact you called that a 'silly comment' is exactly the point: it is meant to be just as silly a comment as your comment he's responding to.

It is clear based on the law that Obamas spokesperson, Ben Rhodes lied when he said that "no president can order a wiretap". The president clearly can. There is nothing sexual about it, so keep your weird bs comments to yourself.

Ben Rhodes' complete statement:

“The president of the United States does not have the authority to unilaterally order the wiretapping of an American citizen,”

Which is absolutely correct.

Read the law....

From the law:(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party; and

You're dodging the question. It's starting to look more and more like Trump was basing his accusations on a Breitbart article and a lunatic talk show host's fantasies. So what do you think should happen if Trump indeed turns out to have been lying?

Nothing's going to happen and we all know it - as sad as it is. The reality we have to face is that for his supporters there is no such thing as reality (or facts, or evidence, or science) anymore, there is just the "Trump" religion (alternative truth).

I have given up on the hope that a simple lie, as long as there's not more to it, will cause him to fall. I am 100% sure that what this guy afforded to do in his first 5 weeks in office would have cost just about any of his predecessors their job. But him? Apparently not. The same people who spent years whining that "for people like the Clintons or the Washington establishment normal rules don't seem to apply" find ways to give this man a pass for every. damn. thing.

In all honesty, one can really only hope that a thing such as the ominous "Obama shadow government" actually exists since these shadow people are allegedly able to obstruct Trump efficiently...

I know I've won the debate when this type of silly comment is offered.

Well done !

No, actually, you LOST this debate with that first question. Nobody needs to prove Trump was lying, that's not how this works. HE is the one making the claim, that means he has to back it up with evidence. Which he hasn't done, and won't do. And no doubt, you'll be here defending him not doing so.

It's very hard if not impossible to prove a negative, which is what you're asking people to do. Redd was illustrating that with the Easter Bubby comparison. The fact you called that a 'silly comment' is exactly the point: it is meant to be just as silly a comment as your comment he's responding to.

Exactly.

If Trump is making the claim, the onus is on him to prove it.

The investigation will take time and lots of search warrants. Be patient.....

The investigation will take time and lots of search warrants. Be patient.....

LOL!

No, it more than likely won't. The odds are you won't hear much about this anymore, as the administration will try to bury this latest gaffe by Trump as quietly as possible. And IF there is a serious investigation, they won't find a thing, and it'll be money down the drain.

YOUR money.

You again didn't answer my question: what should happen to Trump if this turns out to have been a lie?

The investigation will take time and lots of search warrants. Be patient.....

LOL!

No, it more than likely won't. The odds are you won't hear much about this anymore, as the administration will try to bury this latest gaffe by Trump as quietly as possible. And IF there is a serious investigation, they won't find a thing, and it'll be money down the drain.

YOUR money.

You again didn't answer my question: what should happen to Trump if this turns out to have been a lie?

Oh, you'll hear about it. Republicans in Congress are already wanting to investigate it. Ironic that soemthing that has been said with no proof prompts the GOP to spring into action, but they want to sit on their hands and so nothing with the trail of suspicion with 45 and his minions ties with Russia. The GOP will try to milk this. They'll do it for two reasons. The first, as I mentioned, is to deflect from 45's own involvement with Russia, and the second is that while the nation is focused on this, the GOP will continue to quietly pass their disastrous bills that will set this nation back decades, in their quest for a nation that eviscerates the poor and middle class, and promotes and protects the wealthies among us.