Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 29, 2017 2:08:40 GMT -6

The 255 level cap in Order of Ecclesia was really something, if i'm not mistaken, it's the only Igavania game that can reach that far. Shanoa's attributes (elements) can also reach a max of 65535. It would be cool if we could do that again.

Useless useful information (i may be wrong)By the way, Max level cap is 255 because, 255 is the maximum value representable by an 8-digit binary number. (In Hexadecimals. FF = 255).65535 is the highest number which can be represented by an 16-bit binary number. (In Hexadecimals, FFFF = 65535).(Computing language)

The art on my signature was made by Enkeria, from forums.The art on my avatar was made by Miss Ayami Kojima, Castlevania Artist.

Post by Arsenical on Aug 29, 2017 10:07:32 GMT -6

As far as I'm concerned, no. I am sincerely curious in how could someone have fun grinding all the way to 255 if grinding to 99 is already tedious enough

its not fun i can say that even if i enjoy grinding theres also no point on doing it other than for completionism or showing off. i did it by killing jiang shi so many times it ended as the monster that i killed the most times and it was EXTREME BOREDOM.in OOE you can become god at lv 150 if not less and im only willing to overlevel Miriam in Bloodstained if theres a true reason for doing it such as a superboss or an area with demanding monster punishing every underleveled or undergeared player. (on a high level difficulty otherwise im sure some people would coplain HARD and make a drama saying something like: Duh why this and that? casual players this and that. why i cant enjoy the game to the full without grinding? bla bla)

even if it takes a long time to do it in OOE you could spam kill the monster and respawn it over and over again killing it every 5 seconds or so for 10000+ times until you reached max level. it had no challenge involved other than having patience, time to spend and dedication.

Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 30, 2017 2:44:29 GMT -6

Considering what Arsenical said, i think LV 255 could be fun as a comeback, if the player had tools to reach there and a reason to reach there. It's easier to explain this with examples so, i'm just going to made up some things to explain it easier:

THE CATCHNightmare mode could be considered a challenge Mode. Angel said that the player will have the option to play Nightmare Mode right from the start as a New Game+ OR as a clean save (to make things much harder). I believe that, after you beat the game, everything else are choices. You do whatever you want to have the experience you want. So, after beating the game, along with all the other things, Nightmare Mode would be unlocked and also, LV cap options, such as LV 1, LV 50, LV 99 (the default one) and LV 255. You can start a New game+ or a fresh new game at any difficulty mode and choosing any Level cap.THE TOOL TO REACH LV 255Normally, new game+ on harder difficulties (Hard, Nightmare and such) has new items and stuff. That happens on some Igavanias. So, among these new items, the game could have the overpriced 300.000 cost item that some Igavanias had, that multiply EXP gain depending on enemy Level. Let's say, something like this:

Ring of StrifeCost: 300.000 (purchasable only at New Game+ on harder and up)Description: increases obtained experience depending on enemy's level.

THE REASON TO REACH LV 255Nightmare Mode could be almost impossible without overly grinding to the end. You need to be at very high levels to progress it and The Final Boss is almost unbeatable without being LV 255. You can play Nightmare Mode on LV1 cap, but that would be considered impossible to beat. Something like Doom 2016 Nightmare Mode, where even the game developers and testers couldn't beat it and they decided to let it this way. It took months, i believe, for the first player to beat it. That would be a good challenge.So, "normal" players that would like to beat Nightmare Mode (for bragging rights / for fun) could buy Ring of Strife and use it to grind and beat it.

CONCLUSIONThe tool to reach LV255 still requires grinding, but that grinding is cut by using it. The reason to reach LV255 is beating the hardest game mode that would be impossible to beat without grinding by "normal" players. That offers options. A player can play New game+ on Hard (that is way easier tha Nightmare) to obtain all the extra stuff that most Igavanias had on those modes (including the Ring of Strife i made up up there). The player can play any difficult with any level cap. The player can put themselves a grinding challenge by NOT using Ring of Strife at all. The player can put themselves on a game challenge by trying to beat Nightmare Mode at LV1, something that the developer's didn't planned to happen (like Doom 2016 Nightmare Mode) but they know a very good player can do it. You give the player, options, to customize his play at his way after beating the game normally.

Post by Pure Miriam on Aug 31, 2017 1:28:54 GMT -6

If you HAD to grind until 255 to beat Nightmare Mode, it would be absolutely hideous, though. The point of a high difficulty should be to test your skills, not your will to grind

Doom 2016 has a mode called Ultra Nightmare, that is basically this: the game most difficulty setting with permadeath. No saves, no checkpoints. You die, you lose all your progress. The end. And i have to remember that Ultra Nightmare has some enemies that can one-hit kill you in certain situations.

The developer's themselves said that they never beat Ultra Nightmare. Nor the developers, nor ANY beta tester they enlisted. They decided to release the game like that. My information up there is wrong, by the way. It took TWO DAYS for a player to show up and beat it.

Nightmare Mode exists to be hard, by any means possible. Harder enemies, absoutely ungrateful placements, higher level enemies at the beginning of the level, among many other things. Order of Ecclesia's Hard mode is exactly like that. The only way to beat it is to grind to overpower levels...or be a fantastical gamer and beat it at a low cap.

That's what i'm proposing. Set Nightmare mode to be something basically impossible to beat without grinding. And let players beat it without grinding, because that's what happen.

Don't you want a challenge on your skills? Beat a mode that requires LV 255 to finish it, at LV 1. It CAN be done, theorically.

Like DOOM 2016. Developers and beta testers wasn't able to beat Ultra Nightmare. Players was in two days.

Post by DSLevantine on Aug 31, 2017 2:17:30 GMT -6

If you HAD to grind until 255 to beat Nightmare Mode, it would be absolutely hideous, though. The point of a high difficulty should be to test your skills, not your will to grind

Doom 2016 has a mode called Ultra Nightmare, that is basically this: the game most difficulty setting with permadeath. No saves, no checkpoints. You die, you lose all your progress. The end. And i have to remember that Ultra Nightmare has some enemies that can one-hit kill you in certain situations.

The developer's themselves said that they never beat Ultra Nightmare. Nor the developers, nor ANY beta tester they enlisted. They decided to release the game like that. My information up there is wrong, by the way. It took TWO DAYS for a player to show up and beat it.

Nightmare Mode exists to be hard, by any means possible. Harder enemies, absoutely ungrateful placements, higher level enemies at the beginning of the level, among many other things. Order of Ecclesia's Hard mode is exactly like that. The only way to beat it is to grind to overpower levels...or be a fantastical gamer and beat it at a low cap.

That's what i'm proposing. Set Nightmare mode to be something basically impossible to beat without grinding. And let players beat it without grinding, because that's what happen.

Don't you want a challenge on your skills? Beat a mode that requires LV 255 to finish it, at LV 1. It CAN be done, theorically.

Like DOOM 2016. Developers and beta testers wasn't able to beat Ultra Nightmare. Players was in two days.

This is Igavania, not DOOM and I don't think it will work well in Igavania. If some players want to challenge themselves, they are welcome to play the LV1 nightmare and I will play the LV255 level nightmare. Harder game doesn't mean better game, harder game also doesn't mean more enjoyable.

I don't want to challenge my skills and definitely don't want to spend 1000 hours to perfect my skills. This is a game, I play it for fun, it is not a profession.

Post by freddythemonkey on Aug 31, 2017 2:38:35 GMT -6

I know about Doom's Ultra Nightmare (Nightmare was fine though, extra hard but I managed to complete it after a while), if a developer wants to put in their game a mode like that (one hit kill, or permadeath or in this hypothetical case a mode balanced for level 255 in a game where it's already a chore to grind till 99) by any means they can do it, their game, but that won't stop me from thinking it's absolutely ludicrous and absurd to have modes that won't be touched by the vast majority of players. At least that's what I think, it makes no sense to me

I am more inclined to agree with the others that a level 255 mode would probably be intended for people wanting to play the game lots of times with the same file. I wouldn't probably use anyway it because in IGAvanias I always feel like I'm way overpowered in NG+ with the items and abilities, so I would avoid carrying over my level as well.

Post by allooutrick on Sept 2, 2017 19:05:24 GMT -6

A level cap of 255 with a joke message from a boss or two can be nice. Of course the devs would need to give incentive to get that high aside from "I did it". There's not much purpose to being max level if the player can regenerate health infinitely or one shot everything before they get there. At the same time it shouldn't take an immense amount of time grinding at the perfect spot either. This all comes down to trusting the developers to do their thing but, I guess what I'm getting at is I won't mind if the cap is 50, 99, or 255 so long as it's worth reaching.

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