I like Tolbert but I don't think he's worth the compensation needed to sign him. This is similar to the Hillis convo we had recently. Plus, I see Miller continuing to improve and the Niners drafting or bringing in another big back in FA to compete with Dixon, possibly taking his job.

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Tomsula in as HC after the "Harbacle"
Operation 2015 Super Bowl Champions: In progress, with much work to be done

Yeah, I really like Miller. Once he gets comfortable and just lets his physical instincts take over, watch out. You can tell he was trying not to mess up and it made him kind of robotic at times, especially out on the edge, in space. But he should be so much better next year.

Wouldnt surprise me if we drafted another FB who was more of a short yardage brusier instead of looking for another big back.

I like how Dan is preaching aggression over conservatism when it was Kyle Williams' aggression that cost them the most.

It wasnt Williams aggression that cost us the game, it was his inexperience and im sure, nervousness that cost us the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat

New topic: Should the 9ers make a run at Mike Tolbert?

I think he's a perfect compliment to Gore. Kind of what I thought Anthony Dixon was going to become. He's a strong redzone runner where Gore is weak. You can still mix in Hunter on 3rd downs. And hopefully keeps Gore fresher for the playoffs. Seems like a great fit to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

I thought about it, but we really have bigger fish to fry in free agency. And really dont see the Chargers letting him walk with a injury-prone Matthews as your lone opiton in the backfield. Honestly it wouldnt surprise me if they franchised him.

With the new CBA, tendering an RFA at the highest level ONLY requires a first round draft pick in trade compensation. The Steelers are trying to clear enough cap room to franchise WR Mike Wallace. Texans are also trying to do the same so they can franchise RB Arian Foster who's also an RFA.

Back to Wallace, is everyone here still not willing to trade away our first rounder to PIT for him? If we end up going after a WR at 30, I dont think that receiver could come in and start day one where as Wallace would not only start opposite Crabtree but he would automatically become our number one receiver.

Look at the receivers im hoping for -

1) DeSean Jackson (expected to be franchised by PHI)
2) Mike Wallace (RFA, expected to be tendered at the highest level and possibly franchised by PIT)
3) Dwayne Bowe (expected to be franchise by KC)
4) Pierre Garcon (expected to test the market, could re-sign with IND)
5) Vincent Jackson (expected to hit the market, will most likely be allowed to leave SD)
6) Marques Colston (expected to hit the market and leave NO, highly unlikely to be franchised as Brees and Nicks would be tagged before him)
7) Stevie Johnson (expected to hit the market but could be franchised by BUF)
8) Robert Meachem (expected to leave NO via UFA) / Mario Manningham (expected to leave the NYG via UFA)

I think that lists every WR that everyone here is hoping for. Other receivers include Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne and others but I dont think that they will leave their respective team and I dont think anyone here wants any other WR thats on the list.

Looking at that list, the only receiver that seems to be as close to a guarantee of actually hitting UFA would be Vincent Jackson but at 29, is he worth the risk of a long term contract? I would rather have Garcon because he's younger but Jackson can be more dominant. Tough decision. All I know is that we need a true number one playmaking WR on the outside because Crabtree isnt a number one receiver and as the number two receiver, maybe he'll finally break out.

No to Wallace. I know your in love with him Dan but we're not giving up a first round draft pick for any RFA. There is no guanranteed we're going WR at 30th. Anything can happen. Too many good WRs who are UFA to worry about giving up a 1st rounder to sign a RFA. Garcon, VJ, Meachem, or Manningham can have a equal effect to Wallace in this offense. Me personally, I really like Garcon and Meachem. And this draft class is way too deep at receiver to give up a draft pick. What Wallace brings to the table, we can draft after the first. Plenty of speedsters in this draft to be had later on.

Funny but if the 49ers go back to being what they were from 2003-2010, then, you'll both be wishing that the team took a chance on Owens and/or Moss.

Why would they go back to '03-'10? Is the entire defense a free agent? Is Mike Nolan coming back? Is Terry Donahue plowing John York's daughter?

Dan, I've said this before, but Owens is never allowed near my franchise again. He made his feelings known when he left. That's fine. But he doesn't get to come back now. No hard feelings T.O., but you have to get the **** out of my city and never come back. Those are the rules.

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The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.

No to Wallace. I know your in love with him Dan but we're not giving up a first round draft pick for any RFA. There is no guanranteed we're going WR at 30th. Anything can happen. Too many good WRs who are UFA to worry about giving up a 1st rounder to sign a RFA. Garcon, VJ, Meachem, or Manningham can have a equal effect to Wallace in this offense. Me personally, I really like Garcon and Meachem. And this draft class is way too deep at receiver to give up a draft pick. What Wallace brings to the table, we can draft after the first. Plenty of speedsters in this draft to be had later on.

If we dont sign a WR in FA, then I think that WR is number one on the list at 30 so instead of drafting a rookie receiver, why not trade for a receiver who has already proven himself to be a number one receiver and is exactly what we need which is a speed playmaking receiver on the outside who requires a double team just because of his speed.

As for drafting a speed receiver, that guy wont be a starter so what would be the point? We need a starting speed receiver opposite Crabtree. Not a rookie who's not going to start anyway.

Garcon would be good and Vincent would be damn good but he's 29 and isnt worth paying huge money too. Manningham and Meachem are nowhere close to Wallace and are slot receivers. We need a WR on the outside to start opposite Crabtree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Wallace tends to disappear in big games, and has yet develop much of a game outside of running go routes and bubble screens. Antonio Brown is a far more complete receiver on that team.

If it wasnt for Wallace drawing double teams (and Miller), Brown wouldnt even be considered as the far more complete receiver because he wouldnt have the one on one chances that Wallace (and Miller) give him.

And while there's no guarantee that we'll draft a WR at 30, there's no guarantee that the potential FA WR's hit FA to start with and that we'll sign one.

Why would they go back to '03-'10? Is the entire defense a free agent? Is Mike Nolan coming back? Is Terry Donahue plowing John York's daughter?

Dan, I've said this before, but Owens is never allowed near my franchise again. He made his feelings known when he left. That's fine. But he doesn't get to come back now. No hard feelings T.O., but you have to get the **** out of my city and never come back. Those are the rules.

Because the schedule will be tougher, our division will be tougher, defenses will know to double Davis and let our other receivers beat them and they know that those others cant.

Yeah, yeah. I know. Its amazing, you and others would rather not see T.O. come back even if meant adding a 6th SB championship. Sorry, but if you're a true fan, you're supposed to want them to do everything possible to win the Super Bowl. And no hard feelings my ass. Fine, you hate T.O. as much as I like him but Owens (or Moss) would have helped us against the Giants and you guys know it. The real reason you guys didnt want either is because just in case they did help us win, you wouldnt want to admit that they were the main reason because of your dislike for either or both.

Sorry but im not the biggest Moss fan in the world but if I thought that he could help us win a 6th SB, you can bet your ass that I would have at the very least brought him in for a meeting and physical. When you think about it, what would have been the harm? Both receivers would have been pumped to win a SB and given it their all which even at 38 and 34 years old is still more than what Crabtree, Williams, Swain and Hastings did.

You guys can hate either or both all you want but that doesnt change the fact that either would have helped us a lot more than who we had at WR and you guys know it. Just dont want to admit it for whatever reason I dont know but it could have been the player I hate the most and if I thought that player would increase our chances of winning a 6th SB, I would have brought that player in for a meeting and physical in a heart beat.

Location: Near the home of the 2010 WORLD SERIES CHAMPION San Francisco Giants

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

Here's a tidbit that I just read on PFT.....

With the new CBA, tendering an RFA at the highest level ONLY requires a first round draft pick in trade compensation. The Steelers are trying to clear enough cap room to franchise WR Mike Wallace. Texans are also trying to do the same so they can franchise RB Arian Foster who's also an RFA.

Back to Wallace, is everyone here still not willing to trade away our first rounder to PIT for him? If we end up going after a WR at 30, I dont think that receiver could come in and start day one where as Wallace would not only start opposite Crabtree but he would automatically become our number one receiver.

Thoughts?

I'm probably the only one but I agree with you Dan. If the 49ers were able to create a deal big enough to force Steelers to move Wallace for a 1st, I would jump at that trade. He is only 25 and one of the top deep threats in the game. He would be the perfect guy to pair with Crabtree. 49ers would be giving up a late first round pick for a proven player.

If we dont sign a WR in FA, then I think that WR is number one on the list at 30 so instead of drafting a rookie receiver, why not trade for a receiver who has already proven himself to be a number one receiver and is exactly what we need which is a speed playmaking receiver on the outside who requires a double team just because of his speed.

As for drafting a speed receiver, that guy wont be a starter so what would be the point? We need a starting speed receiver opposite Crabtree. Not a rookie who's not going to start anyway.

Garcon would be good and Vincent would be damn good but he's 29 and isnt worth paying huge money too. Manningham and Meachem are nowhere close to Wallace and are slot receivers. We need a WR on the outside to start opposite Crabtree.

If it wasnt for Wallace drawing double teams (and Miller), Brown wouldnt even be considered as the far more complete receiver because he wouldnt have the one on one chances that Wallace (and Miller) give him.

And while there's no guarantee that we'll draft a WR at 30, there's no guarantee that the potential FA WR's hit FA to start with and that we'll sign one.

Its not worth the price to sign a guy who is esentially here to run one route. Thats not how samrt franchises operate. Again, what Wallace provides we can draft two players for for half the price. And Phlysac is right, Brown is a better WR. Maybe not as straight line fast but just as quick and explosive and has no problem going over the middle.

And we are talking about trying to sign past their primes Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

First, me wanting either or both of them was just for the playoff run with the hopes of sneaking out with a 6th SB championship and thats it. I have no interest in either Owens or Moss.

Second, as for that list of receivers, majority of them wont even hit FA. Vincent Jackson is the most likely but at 29, he's not worth the long term huge amount of money contract. A three year deal with money up front but thats it. Welker will be 31 in May, is a slot receiver and not what we need period. Bowe is my third choice but I dont see KC letting him hit the market.

Colston is a wildcard because while I do think that he'll hit the open market, I dont think that he's worth a long term contract. He'll be 29 in June and is basically another Vincent Jackson in terms of where they are. I do think that Colston is an excellent receiver but at the same time, he's been playing with Brees, a four or five star OL, in a dome, on turf and is just one of the Saints many weapons. Would offer him the same type of deal as Vincent Jackson. Wouldnt complain if we sign him but im hoping for a younger receiver who we can sign to a five year or longer deal.

Steve Johnson would be good too as he's younger than I originally thought. Would prefer Johnson over Jackson and Colston since he'll be 26 in July but he drops a lot of passes and his concentration isnt always there. DeSean Jackson is my number one choice but I think that he'll be franchised. Manningham is decent but not worth number one receiver money. We need a receiver who as he's signing his contract, he automatically becomes our number one receiver on the depth chart. Manningham isnt that guy. Robinson will most likely stay in DAL and even if he doesnt, I have no interest in him whatsoever.

Wallace is the second guy on my list and people can say whatever they want about Brown being better in PIT. He's not and if Wallace leaves, everyone will see that. The reason why Brown does good in PIT is because of Wallace. Wallace's speed and deep threat ability often requires a corner and a safety and when you add in Miller in the middle, that leaves Brown (and Sanders) open or with one on one coverage. Wallace is EXACTLY what our offense needs. We have the dominant playmaking up the middle TE, the possession receiver and the slot receiver. Whats missing is the speed receiver on the outside who can take away coverage from all the other receivers. People here say that Wallace can only run two routes....well, he's done pretty ******* good running only two routes averaging 57 receptions, 1068 yards, an 18.7 average and 8 touchdowns. The 30th overall draft pick for Wallace is a STEAL for US. He easily becomes our number one receiver, isnt a rookie who's going to need a season or two or three to make an impact, can start opposite Crabtree from day one, is healthy, young, huge upside and potential and is said to be a team guy. Seriously, what more could you ask for? Quite honestly, once DeSean gets franchised, Wallace becomes number one on my list. Also, I rather trade away the 30th pick for an already established receiver. Draft that TE/WR Fleener in the second and bam, done.

No thanks to Lloyd. Wayne is 33 and not worth the investment or anything whatsoever to us. Garcon is 4th on my wish list and only ahead of Vincent Jackson because he'll be three years younger and is worth a five year deal. Wouldnt cost as much as others will. Whether or not he can automatically become our number one receiver remains to be seen though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?

I'm probably the only one but I agree with you Dan. If the 49ers were able to create a deal big enough to force Steelers to move Wallace for a 1st, I would jump at that trade. He is only 25 and one of the top deep threats in the game. He would be the perfect guy to pair with Crabtree. 49ers would be giving up a late first round pick for a proven player.

Exactly. If we had a top ten draft pick, its a different story but for the 30th overall draft pick, Wallace is a steal. And if we tender Grant at the second round level and some team signes him which I think is a great possibility, we'll have two second round draft picks and our third rounder. Could always package two of them to move back into the first if needed. If we dont get a second rounder for Grant, he stays as the backup to Willis/Bowman which is fine by me.

Only reason why I have Wallace second behind DeSean is because DeSean is scheduled to be an UFA and would require no draft pick compensation. Once Philly franchises DeSean, Wallace becomes my number one receiver on my list.

Also, when you look at your list above, the only receivers that I actually think will be UFA's will be Colston, Johnson, Vincent Jackson, Manningham, Wayne, Lloyd and Garcon. Thinking about it more, I would prefer Johnson out of these seven guys. I wouldnt even contact Manningham, Wayne and Lloyd. Garcon would be a backup choice because I dont think that he could be a number one receiver. Jackson and Colston would be good but I wouldnt offer either of them more than a three year deal because its too risky. Johnson is younger and can be offered a five year deal.

When you look at what could happen, Wallace may seem like the best and smartest choice. PIT will be in the same situation next year with Brown and Sanders. They held on to too many veterans for too long and its costing them now. But hey, I would have no problem trading away my 30th overall draft pick and giving Wallace a five year deal with the most money in 2012 so the Steelers cant match it and take him off their hands.

In terms of cap room, we'll have about $30m. Goldson will be $6.2m if franchised or around that anyway. Smith would be $8m or so a year as I wouldnt go past $8m a season for him but I would add incentives that could pass $8m but thats the only way I would pay him more than $8m a season.

Brooks is the guy im worried about and dont want to see him leave. Everyone here and everything I read says that Aldon Smith will be a starter in 2012 and thats great. Thats what I want to see. Just one problem. I would much rather pay Brooks $8m a year and have him and Smith start with Haralson coming off the bench because quite honestly, Brooks/Smith > Haralson/Smith easily.

After them three, I would re-sign Snyder to keep my starting OL intact and re-sign the special teamers. I let Rogers walk among others. Release Spencer and sign CB/S Jason Allen who I rather have over Carr. Carr will cost way too much money if he hits the open market and I rather see Culliver/Brown start at CB and quite honestly, WR is our number one need and should be our number one priority in free agency.

I'm just hoping that we can re-sign Smith, Brooks and Goldson going into free agency and I'll be a happy camper.

Its not worth the price to sign a guy who is esentially here to run one route. Thats not how samrt franchises operate. Again, what Wallace provides we can draft two players for for half the price. And Phlysac is right, Brown is a better WR. Maybe not as straight line fast but just as quick and explosive and has no problem going over the middle.

Subtract Wallace and his ability to draw double coverage (and Miller) and Brown becomes average at best. If Wallace leaves, Brown's stats will decline because he wont be able to produce as good as he did this past season. As for Wallace running only one route, when its the one route that our offense is missing, I dont think that it matters since having him and his speed will open up everything for all the other receivers. As for drafting, there's a difference. What does everyone here usually say? It takes three years for a rookie receiver to make an impact? Sorry, I dont want to wait three ******* years. Team has a chance to do something that will help the team and they should. Wallace has already established himself where as two rookies will be what? 3rd, 4th or lower on the depth chart? Wallace automatically becomes our number one receiver and provides us with exactly what our offense needs the most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

let teams without a chance of winning waste money on FAs.

in this NFL, you have to draft well, and if you turn to FA, you either bring in guys that have long lasting impact (Justin Smith), cheap starters (Carlos, Whitner), or use it to fill depth (Costanzo)

Justin Smith wasnt a cheap signing and was already established. Whitner was a great signing as was Rogers but Rogers isnt worth re-signing because of his age. Would much rather use that money towards Wallace or a young WR that we actually need. As for drafting players, guys we drafted last April did well with Smith and Hunter being the best two but they werent starters. They were situation based type players.

I'm not looking to sign a billion free agents. Just an already established playmaking receiver. I dont think thats asking a lot.

I actually don't think we'll make a big splash in FA for a WR. You look at the history of WR FA signings and a lot of them don't really live up to their impact for one reason or another.

To solve the WR problem this offseason...wouldn't be surprised if we re-sign Morgan, Ginn (more for returns), sign someone like Garcon to a reasonable deal, and draft a couple of WR's in the draft (say Kendall Wright R1, Tommy Streeter/Stephen Hill in R3/R4). Before you say this isn't enough...keep in mind all the quality starters we got in FA last year on cheap deals. I think our quality coaching is the X-factor...we just didn't have anyone worthy at WR after Morgan went down..except for Crabs of course. The big money is going to go to our guys.