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Tyron, Tom may not have built his car himself (which doesn't make it any faster, or better from anything but a personal perspective) but I can guarantee you it will feed it to a lot of cars on these streets.

As far as the cast vs billet manifolds, doing it yourself in your driveway is one thing...try to design this type of kit, have a payroll, pay your contracted work (in which MaxPSI is a JOINT project between maxPSI and technique tuning. Nick g is and always has been CONTRACTED by ICS/George and now MaxPSI), achieve your financial goals (because there is not one business owner on the planet that does his business so every customer is satisfied and they take the bus home) and keep the costs down for customers. You are talking a generally priced kit, there are OPTIONS when purchasing that can be paid for. It seems as if they had a bunch of BS all the time so there are sometimes reasons for cutting those costs, if there is not much sacrifice.

You don't sound so old yourself bringing up ICS (unless you know George personally?)/someone else's car into this dick measuring debate anyways.

I'm not trying to knock ya...but it seems as if you know a lot about cars/tuning/doing your thing....so since you are tuning your own car...what E46 M3 you know makes more than 700whp on pump - no meth, no race gas, no E85. If you have ever worked on these cars, you will know the factory fuel system just cannot keep up. Dual pumps, bigger -AN lines, whatever you want...it will not RELIABILY keep up, and thats where meth comes in, but why run meth when there is E85 at pumps for cheaper than 91/93??? That's where business mentality comes in. E85 isn't cheating...it's going to be the future of tuning.

I beleive those HPF motors blew for a few reasons, one reason they implimented the knock siren is because the AEM unit does not have knock sensitivity to cut back on timing or pump down a map. What happens running a pump+meth map with contaminated fuel during repeated 60mph-130mph runs?

Take it how you want....at least I can say my information comes from questions and knowledge attained from in person discussion with these business owners and tuners.

__________________Authorized Ontario dealer for Active Autowerke|VF-Engineering|[/color]ESS TuningAFE|Bilstein Suspension|H&R Suspension|KW suspension|Brembo Brake Systems| Stoptech| - Call us for the best pricing please DO NOT PM in regards to pricing

As far as the cast vs billet manifolds, doing it yourself in your driveway is one thing...try to design this type of kit, have a payroll, pay your contracted work (in which MaxPSI is a JOINT project between maxPSI and technique tuning. Nick g is and always has been CONTRACTED by ICS/George and now MaxPSI), achieve your financial goals (because there is not one business owner on the planet that does his business so every customer is satisfied and they take the bus home) and keep the costs down for customers. You are talking a generally priced kit, there are OPTIONS when purchasing that can be paid for. It seems as if they had a bunch of BS all the time so there are sometimes reasons for cutting those costs, if there is not much sacrifice.

- when someone's paying 20k+ for a kit id expect a tubular manifold or at least keep the original billet steed speed. Sure maxpsi contracts nickg, hpf had a different contracter for the built motors the tune and then lastly they installed the turbo kits. I don't have a problem with that, it just didnt work out for them because of lack of communication between the builder, hpf and tuner.

You don't sound so old yourself bringing up ICS (unless you know George personally?)/someone else's car into this dick measuring debate anyways.

- I know George personally, no dick measuring contest here. Just some friendly competition.

I'm not trying to knock ya...but it seems as if you know a lot about cars/tuning/doing your thing....so since you are tuning your own car...what E46 M3 you know makes more than 700whp on pump - no meth, no race gas, no E85.

- we'll find out soon.

If you have ever worked on these cars, you will know the factory fuel system just cannot keep up. Dual pumps, bigger -AN lines, whatever you want...it will not RELIABILY keep up, and thats where meth comes in, but why run meth when there is E85 at pumps for cheaper than 91/93??? That's where business mentality comes in. E85 isn't cheating...it's going to be the future of tuning.

-I never said e85 was cheating, it's an apples to oranges comparison as I wanted the race to be fair. Obv e85 is the best option, but is it avaliable to me locally? No. It's not even avaliable in Canada besides maybe 1 or 2 places, so why would I run a fuel I can't source? I just have to make do with what we have or I would be running e85.

I beleive those HPF motors blew for a few reasons, one reason they implimented the knock siren is because the AEM unit does not have knock sensitivity to cut back on timing or pump down a map. What happens running a pump+meth map with contaminated fuel during repeated 60mph-130mph runs?

-No one knows the real reason and no one will ever will, my beef with hpf is they just all pointed fingers instead of taking responsibility.

As far as the cast vs billet manifolds, doing it yourself in your driveway is one thing...try to design this type of kit, have a payroll, pay your contracted work (in which MaxPSI is a JOINT project between maxPSI and technique tuning. Nick g is and always has been CONTRACTED by ICS/George and now MaxPSI), achieve your financial goals (because there is not one business owner on the planet that does his business so every customer is satisfied and they take the bus home) and keep the costs down for customers. You are talking a generally priced kit, there are OPTIONS when purchasing that can be paid for. It seems as if they had a bunch of BS all the time so there are sometimes reasons for cutting those costs, if there is not much sacrifice.

- when someone's paying 20k+ for a kit id expect a tubular manifold or at least keep the original billet steed speed. Sure maxpsi contracts nickg, hpf had a different contracter for the built motors the tune and then lastly they installed the turbo kits. I don't have a problem with that, it just didnt work out for them because of lack of communication between the builder, hpf and tuner.At the same time....if you built a kit for a 30-50K car at the time USED prices....would you market a kit for 10k? If you rave about the MaxPSI kit compared to the HPF kit, there is a huge difference in visual appeal and quality. MaxPSI kits are designed for a car now worth 10-20K, and look at the prices of the kit. It doesn't make HPF a rip off. Think of it this way....to the BMW owner paying $150,000 for Mclaren CF options (as I seen at Pfaff) seems ridiculous waste of money and a rip off for most likely China made stuff (lol jk)...the Mclaren guy who can afford it will pay it. Don't be sour to a company for doing exactly what ANY company does when their goal is to maximize PROFIT. Business 101 bro.

You don't sound so old yourself bringing up ICS (unless you know George personally?)/someone else's car into this dick measuring debate anyways.

- I know George personally, no dick measuring contest here. Just some friendly competition. Interesting. Not many people know him, personally

I'm not trying to knock ya...but it seems as if you know a lot about cars/tuning/doing your thing....so since you are tuning your own car...what E46 M3 you know makes more than 700whp on pump - no meth, no race gas, no E85.

- we'll find out soon. Are you building an E46 M3???

If you have ever worked on these cars, you will know the factory fuel system just cannot keep up. Dual pumps, bigger -AN lines, whatever you want...it will not RELIABILY keep up, and thats where meth comes in, but why run meth when there is E85 at pumps for cheaper than 91/93??? That's where business mentality comes in. E85 isn't cheating...it's going to be the future of tuning.

-I never said e85 was cheating, it's an apples to oranges comparison as I wanted the race to be fair. Obv e85 is the best option, but is it avaliable to me locally? No. It's not even avaliable in Canada besides maybe 1 or 2 places, so why would I run a fuel I can't source? I just have to make do with what we have or I would be running e85.

"X" HP vs "X" HP in my books is all that matters. What happens when your turbo car beats a CGT? Sports coupe vs supercar...apples to oranges isnt it? Stock vs heavily modded? At the end of the day as everyone is saying..a race is a race. setup vs setup, at the end of the day it's friendly competition...right? Let's get it going (next time we're all in mexico), shake hands at the end and have a beer.

I beleive those HPF motors blew for a few reasons, one reason they implimented the knock siren is because the AEM unit does not have knock sensitivity to cut back on timing or pump down a map. What happens running a pump+meth map with contaminated fuel during repeated 60mph-130mph runs?

-No one knows the real reason and no one will ever will, my beef with hpf is they just all pointed fingers instead of taking responsibility.

sooo HPF rebuilding those motors and providing knock sirens isnt taking responsibility? They're videos were stupid I agree, no one cares about disabling DSC on youtube when you can make a quick phone call. At least HPF is an open company that publically acknowledged what happenned, and showed what they did to rectifiy it. Chris is a business man, and a smart one at that. At one point they were the fastest growing tuner in America! All good things come to an end though.

Hope you don't take me comming off strong or anything.

HPF did a lot for this community, and like I said credit should be given when it's due...just because now the E46 M3 market is catering to a much younger generation who can afford it on their own dime, doesn't mean HPF is a rip off, scammers or anything. Keep in mind..they had to buy the car for 50K probably and went through shit load of R&D costs. Those costs have to be recovered, and now the new companies have a lot of road paved for them eliminating those costs. Overhead is overhead. If NickG did the kit when HPF did it would NOT sell for 10k.

__________________Authorized Ontario dealer for Active Autowerke|VF-Engineering|[/color]ESS TuningAFE|Bilstein Suspension|H&R Suspension|KW suspension|Brembo Brake Systems| Stoptech| - Call us for the best pricing please DO NOT PM in regards to pricing

Are you ready for yours?? haha that silver civic is ready... I'm going to be wiring up the red one soon so that one will be on the hunt soon.

Hah i've been roaming the gta doing some shakedown driving the past two wks, having too much fun on my base tune I'll probably seriously dial it in come fall time on the dyno after I come back from vacay. Nice crispy boost weather then too. Make sure their cars stay in one piece till then

Just my 0.02 guys there are obviously a few guys in this thread with fast cars...lets remember that 99.9% (I think unless you are an owner of a crazy UGR lambo) there IS somebody out there faster and with deeper pockets that you so lets all be humble, have fun this season and enjoy our turboz/pooperchargers/nawz/magical corn jizz/raze fuels etc.

__________________Authorized Ontario dealer for Active Autowerke|VF-Engineering|[/color]ESS TuningAFE|Bilstein Suspension|H&R Suspension|KW suspension|Brembo Brake Systems| Stoptech| - Call us for the best pricing please DO NOT PM in regards to pricing

Let's rent Cayuga for a day, I'm down to watch this event, internet is getting exciting again!

Main attraction, Tom vs Tyron, 3 runs, winner gets the bragging right, and most important of all, respect...... for some, that's more important than anything.

Side attractions, who has world's slowest M44? how many cylinders do you really need in an M52 to make a 14s pass? can M62 with broken timing guides finish a 1/4 race? does an X6 look better when going backwards?

This thread is hilarious and needs to be stickied. Although even if my car got its ass handed to it, it wouldn't bother me in the least. Just to say that I ran with a 1000whp m3 in a car that I built in 3 months in my garage at home would be kudos to me.

Count me in for what ever events, I'm going to look into a race gas tune and we'll go from there.

Wed & Fri, test & tune nights, downside is it's packed, at best you can get 3-4 runs in before 9pm which is when it's closed, I personally don't like it cause there was once when they couldn't clean the tracks properly after car shat oil all over the track and I almost lost my rear end @ 140km/h.