That's very true, but people also need to consider how lucky the Saints were, and how many small breaks that went in their favor last year.

LL is right on the money here, and that's not excuse-making.
We've all seen how big of an impact the zebras have on close games.
But flatout luck is more of a factor than people realize.

How many times do you see passes tipped at the LOS, or by a defender?

Does it find the ground, or someone's arms? Luck is involved there where it goes off the deflections.... sometimes they bounce your way, sometimes not.

Also fumbles.

Brandon Jackson fumbled his first carry Sunday night vs Minnesota. People forgot about it because it went right back to him. LUCKILY.
Had it not, it wouldn't have been forgotten.

Field goals that hook enough to hit the post... then those that don't hook, but straighten out.... punts that bounce backwards and are downed at the 4, versus those that trickle into the end zone for a touchback.

Lotta luck involved in every game. In a close game, it can make a difference.

Exactly. I posted something about that earlier, involving turnovers, and how ridiculous the ratios were for the Packers and Saints last year, and how that is almost impossible to replicate. So much luck involved, and that isn't making excuses. And speaking of luck, I am not going to start talking about the NFCCG or I will probably go into depression again.

As a Bears fan, I have no business talking about bad luck. Luck counts as the ball bouncing to your players, and not the other guys.
For the Saints, they are not getting the turnovers like last year. They only have 4 interceptions and are still not good against the run. The little things like field goal kicking also matter (Dallas).

The Saints aren't getting turnovers without the guy who had 9 picks last year, and our entire starting secondary has missed time.

Wow, teh luckz.

We aren't getting turnovers because we aren't scoring 40 points, and our offense is playing ******, and all 4 members of the secondary have missed time, with the leader and turnover machine playing in 1 game so far. Are you really suprised that we can't force turnovers with Sharper out, and Patrick Robinson playing a ton of snaps, with Porter and Greer out?

We're still 4th in fumbles forced with an anemic pass rush.

Last year. Solid pass rush, big leads, and outstanding secondary=lucky to get picks?

I guess you forgot that Porter and Greer missed even more significant time last year, or maybe you just conveniently forgot. Either way, turnovers are a lot of luck, you don't have to take my word for it, take everyone elses'. Or better yet, use logic. Good secondaries can create turnovers better than ****** secondaries, but if you think luck doesn't play in MAJORLY in any team's success, you are being ignorant.

Yes, Porter and Greer missed significant time, and when they did, our D took a huge hit, and our turnover forcing dropped off considerably. The Pats game was teh only game without Porter or Greer that we played really well. We almost blew games to teams like the Rams, Washington, and lost our last 3 because of these factors.

Just tell me where I'm wrong here.

1) The Saints got out to a lot of early leads, that forced teams to take risks and throw the ball

2) The Saints have an excellent secondary(when healthy) that has a great cover guy, and 3 other guys that are outstanding at forcing TOs(Sharper and Porter for picks, and Harper forcing fumbles) and capitalizing on the risks we force other guys to take.

3) The Saints suffered tremendously last year when these guys missed time, much like this year.

Anyway, the Saints turnovers are no more "lucky" than anyone elses, we force a lot of turnovers when our secondary is healthy because Porter and Greer can cover on an island for long periods of time, and Sharper is one of the best in the league at diagnosing plays and reading QBs, which is why he can come up with 9 picks in a year. Roman Harper is also allowed to roam, and he's a thumper that can flat out punch the ball(4 fumbles forced already this year) or knock it out of receivers and make it bounce into the air.

The Saints aren't suffering in the turnover department because luck decided not to help us, we're suffering because (like late last year) all of our playmakers in teh secondary have missed time.

So the Saints were lucky for most of last season, then our luck ran out (right at the same time our secondary got banged up and missed games) and then our luck came back in time for the playoffs(when we got our starting secondary back for the first time in like 8 games). It's like magic!

It's just different now, the offense is playing poorly and putting the defense into bad spots, but they are actually responding well and holding teams off pretty well, it's just that teams can play conservatively and run the ball when they are getting the ball on our 20-30 because of special teams mishaps or turnovers by the offense. I mean the Browns and the CArdinals both put 30 on us, and they had 1 offensive touchdown between both of them (Hillis ran in from like 5 yards out after their offense started on like the 20).

Offensive production is all about luck too really. If your QB, RB, WR, and linemen are all hurt, and you don't score as many points, the year before was clearly luck.

Just give credit where it's due, the Saints are fantastic at forcing turnovers when they are healthy, or we can start discrediting everything everyone does in this league because we are biased against the team like prock.

Offensive production is all about luck too really. If your QB, RB, WR, and linemen are all hurt, and you don't score as many points, the year before was clearly luck.

Just give credit where it's due, the Saints are fantastic at forcing turnovers when they are healthy, or we can start discrediting everything everyone does in this league because we are biased against the team like prock.

The Saints are excellent at forcing turnovers, yes, but last year they got lucky that they had the opportunity to do so at just the right time to help win some key games.

The Saints are excellent at forcing turnovers, yes, but last year they got lucky that they had the opportunity to do so at just the right time to help win some key games.

And Peyton Manning is lucky that he is really good at throwing the football, I just don't see the point of talking about it.

Like I said, you don't get lucky to get the opportunity, you put yourself in that position.

Adrian Peterson wasn't running down the field and dropping the ball with no one around him, he's notoriously loose with teh football and the Saints were holding him up and punching at the ball.

Brett Favre is an INT machine, Tracy Porter jumped a route. Tracy Porter also jumped a route that Peyton MAnning routinely throws. Was it luck that Peyton didn't go deep and threw the slant? I guess you can call it that.

Just give credit where it's due, the Saints are fantastic at forcing turnovers when they are healthy.....

Did you not understand the casino analogy?

Nobody ***** the Vikings more than I do and I rooted for the Saints that game as much as almost any Saints fan did. But if you don't think the Saints had a lot lot lot of good fortune, luck, to come away with the W in that championship game where Peterson & Favre put the ball on the ground many times (once inside the 5-yard line just on the handoff), where the Vikings got a penalty for too many men in the huddle right after a timeout and in position to kick the NFC-winning field goal.... take it, but admit that was a lot of luck.
At the right times.
We just beat them this week and it was a lot of luck due to bad calls by the refs on 2 touchdownss.

And now I like the part you added..... "The Saints are fantastic at forcing turnovers when they are healthy."

I can't tell you how many times I saw some crazy JKASDASDGSAJKDHKJLSADHLKAJSDHJKLASGHDJKLSAGDLKJASG DLJKASGDLKJSADGLKDASGDLJKASDGJKLAWDGLKJGWLKAGDLKAJ WDGLWA happen in a Saints game last year where the ball just magically found itself in a Saints player's hands.

Like that Redskins game the Saints were losing when a Skins player forced a turnover, was running back with it, then let Meachem strip the ball from him and watched as MEACHEM RAN IT BACK FOR A TOUCHDOWN HIMSELF.

I'm sorry, but the Saints were a one-hit wonder and that season was just magical. They will never repeat.

Nobody ***** the Vikings more than I do and I rooted for the Saints that game as much as almost any Saints fan did. But if you don't think the Saints had a lot lot lot of good fortune, luck, to come away with the W in that championship game where Peterson & Favre put the ball on the ground many times (once inside the 5-yard line just on the handoff), where the Vikings got a penalty for too many men in the huddle right after a timeout and in position to kick the NFC-winning field goal.... take it, but admit that was a lot of luck.
At the right times.
We just beat them this week and it was a lot of luck due to bad calls by the refs on 2 touchdownss.

And now I like the part you added..... "The Saints are fantastic at forcing turnovers when they are healthy."

Good stuff Saints-Tigers.

Then every game in the NFL is luck, and there is no point in trying to figure out who is better than who, because all games are decided by luck.

The Saints ARE fantastic at forcing turnovers when they are healthy. They suck at forcing turnovers when they aren't. Does that mean Porter, Greer, and Sharper carry some sort of lucky totems? lol

So does Atlanta's win not count against us because Garret Hartley missed a chip shot? It was just luck right? It has nothing to do with him parting all off season and being a total dipshit right?

We recovered 3 fumbles, and Favre threw two picks. Minnesota is lucky that we didn't recover all 6!

How is too many men in the huddle lucky? You're really reaching lol.

Keep living in fantasy land where you can blame luck on losses, I prefer reality, where luck doesn't exist.

I don't know why you'd even get offensive at the notion that your team was super lucky one season. Who cares? You won the Super Bowl, people could call my team lucky up and down.

So I guess David Tyree wasn't lucky when he caught a bomb on Rodney Harrison and stuck the ball to his helmet? I'm sure that was all skill due to how many Pro Bowls he's made or how many big plays he's made in his entire career. Or that Eli wasn't lucky when he broke free from defenders to even get the ball out of his hands? Nearly every SB winner has to experience a ton of luck to win the SB, most notably the Saints, but if you are a fan I don't know why you'd take that as a slight. It's true, and was very obvious.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

You're talking about one miraculous catch. People are asserting that a seasons worth of turnovers force were just sheer luck, and the luck is gone, which is why the turnovers aren't happening. It's ********, luck has nothing to do with how we forced turnovers last year, and nothing to do with why we aren't this year, people just want an excuse for why their own team can't do something.

You guys can attribute it to luck if that makes you feel better, the Saints were just better than your team, I know that hurts.

Anyway, I want J-Mike to agree that Charles Woodson isn't really that good of a player. He's decent in coverage, but all the turnovers he gets are just luck, and can happen to anyone.

Are people really naive enough to believe turnovers are created by luck? I'll grant you occasionally they are, but for the most forced they're errors in some kind. If a ball gets deflected it's not luck, it's because the defense made the deflection or the offense didn't execute correctly.

I think luck plays more into sports when it comes to injuries. Some injuries are just flat out unlucky and aren't controlled by the players themselves.

Are people really naive enough to believe turnovers are created by luck? I'll grant you occasionally they are, but for the most forced they're errors in some kind. If a ball gets deflected it's not luck, it's because the defense made the deflection or the offense didn't execute correctly.

I think luck plays more into sports when it comes to injuries. Some injuries are just flat out unlucky and aren't controlled by the players themselves.

I was about to post almost exactly this until i read yours, very accurate.

Luck comes into play with injuries, and every single team gets them so saying 'our team is great when healthy' and playing the injury card is kinda pointless Saints-Tigers, sorry but its true every team gets hurt the best ones compensate with depth and smarts. look at the giants last year, that d fell apart because they had no depth. or colts this year and the last several years for that matter, you get the picture. The colts stay close to their usual level of production because they find a way around the lost people.

All that said, youre completely right on everything else. If you dont have as many late leads or passing situations for your pass rush to tee off on the qb and force errant or hurried throws, of course youre not going to create as many turnovers. The saints division is much improved this year (except carolina, but they no longer have delhomme to play pitch and catch with the saints db's so it kinda evens out imo) so the saints are playing worse and the opponents have been playing a lot better. Of course the turnovers went down.

It's really that simple, it's not an excuse, it is what it is. If Chris Johnson goes down and the Titans can't get as much out of their running game, we won't be saying that they were lucky to run the ball well, or that someone is using the "injury card".

You guys are so used to people making excuses that you can't see logic. The Saints aren't going to force as many turnovers with all 4 starters missing some time, and 3/4 being out for a majority of it.

That's not even getting into the other things like the offense playing like garbage, but you obviously can't make as many plays with your playmakers missing, I don't see what is so difficult to grasp about that.

Saints-Tigers you keep thinking in extremes. What they are saying is that the reason the Saints got so many turnovers was a combination of quality player and very good luck. Unfortunately "luck" is not something that is sustainable and transferable from year to year(or at least no usually). This year the reason for the Saints decline in turnover is a combination of injuries to the Saints players as well as not getting some of the same bounces(luck) that they were getting last year.

Yes, they were really lucky last year too. You act like somebody slapped your mother or something, you are ****** freaking out about somebody saying turnovers are a lot of luck. It is a combination of the two, as I specifically said many many many times, but you keep ignoring the fact that I said both things are factors.

There are some players such as Asante Samuel and Ed Reed who are capable of generating interceptions on a regular basis by doing things such as jumping routes.

On the other hand, there are players such as Darren Sharper who are in basicaly the right place at the right time during the course of one season and typically don't repeat their amazing string of interceptions the next year.

The Saints generated a ton of turnovers last year because alot of them happened when Saints defenders were in the "right place at the right time". A ball was knocked loose and Saints fell on it. Sharper was playing deep and snagged a floater and ran it back for a touchdown. Etc, etc. This kind of stuff makes for a magic Super Bowl season, but you can't rely on it to happen year after year.