Please check my plans for oven choice and layout

ontariomomJuly 13, 2013

Hi everyone,

We are trying to move along with our kitchen design and need to nail down the oven choices and locations. The best space for our ovens seems to be on the outside wall under a slightly raised counter (42 3/4 inch counter). We have bought an older model Gaggenau steam oven that we got at a discount as a floor model (model number ED 231 610). I have read good reviews here on the Electrolux Icon wall oven. Reviews here have let me know the easy roll out racks will help with the ergonomics of an undercounter wall oven install. I have also read good things about the Bosch wall ovens which I think can be installed right under the counter to keep the oven as high as possible. Does anyone know which oven might be better suited for an undercounter install?

Also, do you see any problems with installing either oven (Bosch or Electrolux) right beside the steam oven? BTW, Gaggenau has reassured us that the steam oven can be installed this low as long as our plumber can drop the plumbing so it drains properly (which looks possible).

The last question relates to the cabinet sizes for these ovens. Right now we show the regular oven in a 31 inch frameless cabinet. The steam oven is shown in a 27 inch frameless cabinet. We will likely reduce the oven to a 30 cabinet to save an inch and avoid a custom cabinet. Do these cabinet dimenstions make sense?

BTW, the little metal drawer under the steam oven is just a drawer we drew in so the two ovens would look more matched in height (it is not a warming drawer which we will have elsewhere. Hopefully we will be able to get a metal drawer made.

The only other appliance shown is the Fridgidaire twin all fridge. Any opinions on this choice for an all fridge are also welcome.

Below shows the outside wall of our proposed kitchen with the ovens. The smaller oven on the right is the steam oven with a metal drawer below. The steam oven is hinged on the left.

OntarioMom, if you go on the appliance site (I know this is true of Bosch ), they will specify clearances and cabinet sizes. The only thing that jumped out at me was the steam oven with the left hinge. You might need a bigger space than what is shown to be able to open the door properly.

Good point about the steam oven opening. How many inches in between the two ovens do you think we would need to open the Gagg steam oven? I will contact Bosch and Electrolux on Monday to check for clearances. I found the pdf on the Electrolux a bit ambiguous for clearances. I will check the Bosch site now.

This continues to be a puzzle. Bosch said two ovens could go side by side, but Electrolux was not sure. I prefer the Elux due to easy slide out racks and less stooping as a result. I think I should put the steam oven on the opposite left (not right as shown) so the steam oven does not bump into the regular oven (different cooks could also open different ovens at the same time). We also might bump out the base oven cabinet a few inches to give enough room so the steam can open fully, and also allow a few more inches of counter infront of the glass cabinet. Any thoughts on these ideas? What do you think about putting a steam oven beside the Elux oven? Should I go ahead with this plan despite the Elux rep's reluctance?

I have the Bosch 500 installed in the same height cabinet under counter. It doesn't come with an easy glide type rack - but I did get Bosch's version separately and use it for the bottom rack. (The 800 series comes with one.)

As suggested before, check the manufacturer installation specs. My oven is installed in a 31 1/2 inch wide and 25 inch deep face frame cabinet that sits in front of a brick wall (which is why we needed the 25 inch depth).

Now, positioning may be slightly different in your frameless cabinet, but my oven sits about a foot off the floor - with the bottom rack about 20" off the floor. While I'm a little above average in height, that bottom rack is at my knee level, causing a little bit of bending, but not uncomfortable. I find it to be a good height for lifting out a ham or turkey and slightly higher than my old range.

Ontariomom, that's a great idea to switch ovens so the door of the SO won't open into the wall oven. I spoke to CS of both Bosch and Electrolux on Monday. Both were friendly and helpful, but did not know all the answers to my ?s. I wanted to know if the ovens could be placed next to a refrigerator and they both said yes, there wasn,t anything inthe manual that said you couldn't. But i've heard here and else where to insulate so they don't share air intake and to be careful with the handles of the fridge. Best to read the manuals available online. Another concern I had with the Bosch 500 was that there was no way to clean between the glass if something drips there-that would drive me crazy. The elux guy emailed me instructions on how to do that on the wave touch. Never realized the choices would be so difficult. What did we do before we could check the web for reviews??
Skittle, I love brick or stone walls in a kitchen. Do you like your Bosch 500?

Thanks very much for your reponses. The only oven I have ever used is a range, so good to know that you don't find your Bosch too low under the counter, Skitdel. Also, good point about the add on slide racks if we go the Bosch route.

Thanks for thinking through the pros of swapping the position of the two ovens, Barbarav. I am also leaning even more strongly to bumping the oven counter both up and out a few inches, so the swing of the steam oven is not impeded by the lower counter beside. I had no idea about the cleaning oven glass issue. Like you said, Barbarav, thankfully there are forums like this where this kind of info can be exchanged.

We have checked the online manuals of both the Bosch and Elux ovens and neither warn against placing ovens side by side. Gaggenau, the maker of our older steam oven also has nothing listed in their manual against placing the steam oven beside a regular oven. The only caution in the Gagg manual is avoid placing the steam oven over a DW.

I do like my Bosch oven although the glass cleaning can be an issue. I have been very careful taking items with liquid out of the oven to avoid anything dripping into the vent opening at the top of the door. No problems for 2 years until I grabbed a baked sweet potato wrapped in foil a few weeks ago and ended up with a small drip. It's not noticeable until you turn the oven light on so I'm not motivated to do anything about it yet, Someone had some tips for reaching into the vents to clean the glass that I might try, or worst case we take apart the door to clean it - it's out of warranty at this point anyway.

The counter and cabinet do not become excessively warm when the oven is on and it vents from the front - so I wouldn't worry about installing it next to a refrigerator. I do have a friend with that set up (different brand) who dented her refrigerator door by opening it against the oven handle - so it's good to be aware of those possible issues as you evaluate brands.

I have an odd little set up in my kitchen - that works for me. But here is a look at my raised cabinet oven.

The cabinet is 42 inches and the granite brings the height to 42 3/4 - the same as your plan Ontariomom. The oven sits a couple inches higher than my old range oven - so bending isn't an issue for me. The counter steam/microwaves work well for the family at that raised counter height.

I went with the Bosch 500 for the knob/retro look, size and price at the time. Beyond the drip, it's been a good oven that bakes evenly. I also know that many here love their Electrolux ovens. Good luck with your decision!

Thanks for your detailed post, Skitdel. Your feedback is valuable. I wondered about two things. Your Bosch seems to be right under the counter, yet I thought the manual recommended dropping the oven three inches under counter. Do you recall if your dropped your oven down at all under the counter? Also, when you refer to the micro/steam oven on the counter, what brand is that oven? It looks to be a nice size and not too deep like our steam oven.

The top front of the control panel is actually a little "lip" that sticks up above the unit box. The 3 inch clearance per Bosch's diagram is measured from the top of the countertop to the cut out opening and is the same when installing the ovens under electric or gas cooktops - which obviously would be taking up most of that area. Units installed in a wall cabinet have no additional clearance, so I wonder how much of it is necessary for a stand alone under counter. Even meeting their specs, your oven probably shouldn't need to start more than an inch and a half below the counter, but check with your cabinet maker. Mine is closer than that, but possibly due to leveling issues or my cabinet maker had better specs from Bosch.

My steam oven is a countertop Sharp Supersteam combination microwave, convection and steam. I had great plans for it but realistically have only used it a handful of times for steam. I know many love and use their steam ovens often. There is absolutely no comparison to your Gaggenau! Yours is a top of the line oven that will be plumbed and I'm sure you will love.

The manual for the Gaggenau says that the minimum height
for installation is 35-1/2" above the floor. You seem to be
placing it at about 22-23" above the floor. Unless this is
over a basement or lower floor where you can route the drain
hose straight down, you will have trouble getting the minimum
drop between the combi and the sewage trap. If you are
not, then a drain backup could bring drain water to combi
height. When the combi sits at or above counter height, the
sink would overflow onto the floor before that could happen.

Also, I think that using the combi at that position would be
absolutely miserable. The controls are at the bottom (~24" off
the floor). In fact, I didn't consider even counter height to be
optimal, so I put mine at 46" off the floor for the controls.

Do you have enough width available at the left to put the
combi in a stack between uppers and lowers?

Be certain to use a very fine grid inline filter, such as the one Gaggenau sells. Not certain about yours, but when mine of the same era was made, the water for steam goes through a 0.6mm orifice (1/40th of an inch). When I first checked mine out in the garage, it was fine. I checked it again a few months later, and it suddenly stopped making steam. I was hooking it up to my garden hose, and hadn't bothered with the filter, and some piece of grit or something plugged it up. Finally figured it out (disassembly required), cleared it, plugged again, cleared it again. Glad I bench checked it -- failure in use would require pulling it out of the cabinet.

Thanks very much for your reply. We are aware that the Gagg combi-steam oven specs for the machine bottom to be at counter height. We can find nowhere in the main part of the kitchen to place it that high. The only high choice would be across the kitchen and I felt that location would be inconvenient. We have tried to compromise by bumping up the counter (which we could do a bit more). However, good news is we do have a full basement underneath with 12 inch i-joists to be able to route the drain hose straight down.

The filter info is very valuable. I assume this does not come with the oven? If not, do you have to order it straight from the Gagg dealer?

I have linked the other part of the kitchen so you can see the lack of locations for tall elements. I don't want my fridge far away either.

You should be able to order the filter from the dealer. I ordered it online. Part number 655725, about $80 from Bosch/Gaggenau, but they seem to have others. I found a link to a parts place for about $40 (see below, but you will not find it in the parts diagram there). This part is just a stainless steel pipe with a fine mesh stainless filter, which goes inline with the inlet hose,

Anything that provides a very fine particle protection should be okay.

Yes we can go ahead and raise the oven cabinets some more and shrink the cabinet above. Given the ovens are deep, I was told if they were too tall, they would block the lights from the windows. I will try to mock up just how low the controls will be to see if I can live with them that low. Thanks!

Attofarad,

That is very useful. I will get that part as suggested, or some sort of fine particle protection. I appreciate your help.