Passing / Presenting Tips for an Absolute Retard

File: 1563263916689.png -(253167B / 247.23KB, 549x294) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. I have no idea where to start when it comes to passing. I am currently on estradiol and recently went back on spironolactone after that one year hiatus. I also switched my larger once-a-week patches that used to fall off for the smaller ones with better adhesives that are twice-a-week. I yearn to start passing and presenting. A friend of mine told me that nobody is going to pass over night so it's better to just start presenting while learning what works and what doesn't. But I'm too much of a pussy to do that. I feel like a helpless child in more ways than just this. I have no idea where to start with vocal training as everybody I asked for help either way my voice is "already there," but there are still those who say it's too masculine. I know it's within the overlap between masculine and feminine pitches though. It just has to be.

Nigel Clerringforth - Tue, 16 Jul 2019 13:02:46 EST VXOdpzl8No.406261 Reply in extensive nervous research about voice training, I found that the range for human voices has a lot of overlap, but that there's a slight but noticeable difference in timbre between male and female voices regardless of range. Additionally, a slightly lower and "off" voice is just one of many small tells that add up to make things incredibly obvious.

It terms of voice, from other people I've asked, I apparently am starting from a decent place. It has really feminine mannerisms and most people who I talk to in my real voice peg me as gay. So I could be starting off with a lot worse footing, so I guess I'm thankful for that.

There are like 3 or 4 different surgeries that I have to get and I don't have any health problems so hopefully I qualify for them all. I'm INCREDIBLY lucky though in that 1. my Adam's apple practically does not exist, idk what it is but it's like a 1/4 of an inch and really deep in my throat, you have to seriously feel around for it 2. my shoulders aren't really that broad and they taper down smoothly.

Have to work on posture exercises but I've always had kind of feminine mannerisms, I just have to undo years of trying to hide them.

The thing that's pissing me off the most now though is body hair, I've got to figure something out more permanent than shaving. I shave every single day and it's giving me really nasty razor burn and I STILL have shadow on my face. I don't think I have money for electrolysis right now, so I'm looking into epilating, but idk which one I should get, I don't want to tear up my face but at the same time I want to tear off my face.

Lotion and moisturizer really helps start to make the skin softer while waiting for HRT to do that, and undoes years of abuse by being a guy

If this is an issue for you, use something like Revita to nip male-pattern baldness in the bud and stop it until HRT has enough time to stop that shit from happening. If you're starting on it young, then there's a really good chance you won't ever suffer from MPB, since that's entirely caused by androgens that you won't have anymore

William Ponnerlad - Tue, 16 Jul 2019 13:25:05 EST CAS31julNo.406263 Reply >>406261Sounding like an effeminate gay man isn't anywhere close to sounding like a woman. Honestly this whole post sounds delusional. So much of the shit closeted trans or non passing trans say actual women do, both cis and trans, is so off-base and phony. Just act like a normal person. Imitating a caricature woman that you will realize doesn't actually exist once you are seen as a woman without question in the real world isn't the way to pass. I am not saying this to be mean but to help you.

Edwin Blannerstone - Tue, 16 Jul 2019 21:12:14 EST VXOdpzl8No.406267 Reply also incidentally how does the whole post sound delusional? I'm just talking about the things I need to work on to pass and not taking the attitude that it's the end of the world that I'm trans and that I'll never pass ever, I will, I don't now, I don't even try to now except shaving, but that doesn't make me pass

What i think they are trying to say is there is an idea about how women act that isnt the reality. Women, much like men are all unique in how they present, how they act, how they talk. Literally all my cis friends are totally unique in personality to each other. There is no sure fire way to pass (other than buying into the base stereotype of a woman, blonde hair, makeup etc), but I personally found is that you just exchange one mask for another when you do that, inauthenticity for inauthenticity is not the way.

The best way to get your voice good is to start using it all the time, in regular conversation, yes this might out you, if people care enough, but most people will just talk behind your back, let them, it makes coming out so much easier when you know they already know.

In regards to presenting, just build up to it (yes hrt and shaving etc etc). most people only see a few key things unless they really talk to you, stance (how you carry yourself, walk, stand.), your hair (the goal being if they look at just your hair they assume you're female) and your clothes.Stance can be hard, have you ever worn high heels before? that feeling of having your whole body push forward onto the ball of your food, you can kind of use that feeling. Hair, get proper shampoo and condish, go to a salon, get it styled, braid/plait it etc. clothes, easiest thing to build up, bracelets, necklaces, shoes, nail polish (if its your jam), subtle makeup (concealer on blemishes)

So basically the goal is to exist without too much kerfuffle, majority of the time you are out and about you wont even use your voice unless you are with friends and if you're with friends who gives a fuck? if you're at a bar and you get clocked, who gives a fuck?

The goal is to be the authentic you not some carbon copy of the manufactured male-perspective woman. you are allowed to be a quirky weirdo if thats who you are.

Charlotte Cruppernat - Wed, 17 Jul 2019 20:28:44 EST 3J/Y3L7cNo.406271 Reply >>406270That is exactly my point. "Narrow, stiffled definitions of what you can be" is the opposite of what I am suggesting. I am not saying "don't be feminine" either, I am saying that spending all of your (closeted) time worrying about replicating something as vague and stereotypical as "feminine mannerisms/hobbies/speech patterns" is a recipe for disaster. I remember when I first transitioned, forever ago at this point, and every dumb voice thing online suggested uptalk because "that is how women talk". Eventually you realize a lot of women, maybe even most of women, do not actually talk like that most of the time but I have been to trans spaces where it sounded like every trans woman there was trying to do it because that was what the internet said to do to get a passing voice and it is so uncanny.

I agree with you about presenting. Letting it develop naturally is the best way to pass. If you are not really masculine physically, which takes luck and time and maintenance (like shaving, yeah), then you get a lot of leeway to be the kind of woman you actually are. "Manufactured male-perspective woman" is exactly what I am saying. Pre-planning your post-transition self when you are a baby trans, based off of what you have read about women online or how you think women are from your closeted perspective, is not going to help you pass because people can tell that it isn't authentic. I am not saying any of this to be mean, honestly. I am trying to be helpful as someone who has been there (7+ yrs hrt, post-SRS, recently post-FFS) and has not been clocked in several years.

Shitting Pillerpidge - Wed, 17 Jul 2019 21:27:09 EST zoklygxcNo.406272 Reply >>406270Do any of your female friends act like a guy? I’m sure even the most hardened tomboys still have a few feminine traits. Honestly, this is likely due to their upbringing, but even if they share many traits with that of a transsexual who is trying to assimilate more into society as a woman. Wouldn’t they still have more feminine qualities than that of the transsexual who wasn’t exposed to the past times that most women hold?

My female friends just act like themselves. Seriously, if they were a guy or a girl i could imagine them being the exact same person. I think this is what life is like for people who grow up accepting their gender from the get go, no matter how they act or what they do they always know they are going to be their gender so things like being read as a particular gender doesnt really matter to them or cross their mind at all.

Nicholas Danderbit - Wed, 17 Jul 2019 23:14:34 EST VXOdpzl8No.406274 Reply People we are over thinking this, there are a lot of masculine cis women and a lot of feminine cis men out there, it's the combination of tells that leads someone clocking you

Charlotte Cruppernat - Thu, 18 Jul 2019 09:07:39 EST 3J/Y3L7cNo.406275 Reply >>406272Thinking about womanhood/femininity like this combination of traits on a checklist is a bad mindset. The women you are talking about are just being women, they're not thinking about being women or trying to be women. It will probably take time but that is what you should do too.

>>406274The most important/obvious tells are your voice and how masculine your body is. If you have one of those down you can even get away with the other one being iffy. Outside of situations where someone is walking/talking/acting in a way that is seen as super masc or super femme cis people really do not pay attention to that stuff as much as trans people worry about. When cis people harass people in bathrooms they are not saying "that person did not have a properly feminine gait", they say "that person had a man face/body".

Shitting Pillerpidge - Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:36:27 EST zoklygxcNo.406276 Reply >>406275I thought most of the time the people who get harassed for their choice of restroom are actually cis-lesbians than actual trans-people. That seems like the case anyway.

Nicholas Danderbit - Thu, 18 Jul 2019 14:32:49 EST VXOdpzl8No.406277 Reply >>406275Tbh, I've always thought of it this way. To most people, we're just a blur in their minds. We're a loose collection of brief, indistinct snapshots caught in the corner of their eyes. I mean can you tell me what the clerk who checked you out at the last store you went to looks like? Do you remember what every single one of your coworkers looks like? How about your professors if you're in school? You have an idea, but this idea is often hazy, and not too accurate. If you try to present as feminine, that will be one of the defining characteristics of you in most people's minds.

If you've been on HRT for a few years and had face surgery if it's really bad or shoulder surgery if that's really really bad, you're probably going to pass in the minds of most people you run into, at least until you start talking, but if you have a fairly high voice to begin with, voice training can work super well, and voice feminization surgery is also an option and really not that out of reach in terms of money for most people.

John Pitthall - Fri, 19 Jul 2019 01:39:40 EST VXOdpzl8No.406280 Reply >>406278it does but if you're healthy going in, like don't smoke and haven't smoked for years, no health issues, etc. the risks are really low and the results are incredible.

Fucking Birrystitch - Fri, 19 Jul 2019 05:03:44 EST zoklygxcNo.406281 Reply I have a question about passing, kind of, I didn't want to make a new thread about it and figured this might be a decent thread to ask this in, but how do I get better handwriting?

It's really nothing to get upset over. It's just that whenever I see a girl's handwriting I always get envious wishing that belonged to me. No matter how hard I try to imitate that style the more I see other girls with better handwriting and better quick handwriting that it makes me mad.

This even lead me to believe that cis women have a biological advantage when it comes to handwriting and that doesn't even make any lick of fucking sense. When the invention of writing long came after the species homo sapien and homo sapien sapien came into existence.

Hannah Crunkinwill - Sat, 20 Jul 2019 03:12:16 EST ZCUkRLpaNo.406282 Reply >>406281YES handwriting is a huge source of dysphoria, but luckily a relatively easy thing to change. Seriously, just a half an hour a day for a month or so and you can change it, as long as you aren't shooting for frilly calligraphy

Handwriting training is part of the things I'm doing to prepare to physically transition, and it's entirely changeable, and there's nothing innately female about it, it's just how people who were AFAB were conditioned

Hannah Crunkinwill - Sat, 20 Jul 2019 05:25:08 EST ZCUkRLpaNo.406283 Reply >>406282Also, I find that you're at an advantage if you've never learned cursive before and learn that instead. It's inherently more feminine (in our current society) and it's completely different so you can kick all of the masculine writing habits you learned as a kid. I mean the reason male/female handwriting is so different is largely because girls are socialized to really practice their penmanship whereas men are not. So a lot of what we think of as "girly" handwriting is actually just proper handwriting.

Eliza Snodway - Sat, 20 Jul 2019 08:14:06 EST zoklygxcNo.406284 Reply >>406282I already do that every day and I mostly write random shit from the top of my head (or wrestling cards, yeah, I go on /wooo/). I've been told I have nice writing and I only recently (like a few months ago) got back into cursive, but nobody how neatly I get it always seems like I'm upstaged by another girl that I just end up starring at her writing feeling envious that my writing still isn't that nice.

Then I go on YouTube to see if there is anybody else making ridiculous connections to biology and one girl said she knew a man with "stereotypical girlish" handwriting and now it makes me feel upset that my handwriting may never be good enough.

Basil Paggletedge - Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:44:32 EST zoklygxcNo.406287 Reply >>406286What do you suggest for making it prettier?And I’m not sure if this explains the shakiness or not but that was written on a reMarkable writing tablet.

Sophie Nadgenidge - Sun, 21 Jul 2019 18:39:22 EST 9XFQEqLENo.406288 Reply >>406287id might change cause on phone but I dunno, mine is still pretty dire, I'm kind of just practicing and practicing free hand cursive and slowly changing it to more girly, like thinner letters, more flowing, etc. not basic enough for heart dots or anything like that tho

Nicholas Tillingforth - Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:40:56 EST VXOdpzl8No.406290 Reply 1563982856698.jpg -(4566408B / 4.35MB, 3024x2928) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.>>406284yea I do see what you mean though, after practicing here and there for a couple weeks now there still seems something intrinsically masculine about it that I can't quite place

Maybe there is a biological element in play, it'll be interesting to see if it changes after starting HRT, but I'll keep practicing regardless

Ian Geffingstire - Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:15:09 EST zoklygxcNo.406292 Reply >>406290I could be looking at the wrong thing. Maybe it isn’t exactly the handwriting but the organization of the handwriting that makes me jealous. Because most of the time when I see a girl’s handwriting it is presented in a beautiful way. And if this is something biological I am going to break that bullshit until biology can kiss my ass and call me ma’am.

Edwin Crasslesirk - Wed, 24 Jul 2019 23:24:46 EST VXOdpzl8No.406293 Reply >>406292Idk, I'm still going with the fact that girls are socialized to practice their penmanship where as boys aren't. I think if we spend like an hour a day practicing this shit it won't be too bad. Also, cursive is automatically way more feminine in most peoples' eyes, couple that with very thing and flowing writing like I'm trying and failing to do in that pic, but I've honestly seriously practiced less than 10 hours total, it'll take time but I think we'll both get there

John Noddlesatch - Mon, 26 Aug 2019 00:55:39 EST ereUc6B6No.406481 Reply >>406266then you should have no problem passing and you don't need tips. you either got it or you don't. if you're above 5'4 you'll probably get clocked easily because tall girls get examined more. >>406268you're welcome

At this point i can only assume you're a hon trying to convince everyone else they are also hons, or more likely just a bad faith actor who isn't actually trans at all, thats such a ridiculous blanket statement, 6'+ sure, but there are plenty of tall cis women, being 5'5"-5'9" is not an insta tell at all

Hedda Cicklefog - Tue, 27 Aug 2019 18:52:27 EST gP34rIUINo.406517 Reply >>406515And in many other areas it's rather tall or male height. It's relative. Here is the worldwide height for women to back up my claim. Also youth is associated with short stature which is also associated with femininity. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_average_human_height_worldwideI consider my own height just about average, at 5'3 but still don't get unsolicited messages, don't always pass and don't want to argue about how it makes you feel, these are just worldwide statistics and that was one of the main issues that some of my trans friends had, they would have longer faces or would be clocked by their height, my amal frame is able to hide the way I walk better, while their taller strides are more obvious.

Hedda Medgeville - Tue, 27 Aug 2019 21:44:28 EST VXOdpzl8No.406520 Reply >>406518there are too many shitposts to reasonably report but you're right I should stop responding to them, but this dumb shit has been the only topic of discussion on this board the past few days, idk where it came from all of us sudden

Hedda Medgeville - Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:56:13 EST VXOdpzl8No.406522 Reply >>406521it's weird though, they come in waves, like the board got noticeably worse than it has in a while in the past week or so, I don't get what keeps happening

Hedda Medgeville - Wed, 28 Aug 2019 00:29:21 EST VXOdpzl8No.406524 Reply >>406523i mean i would assume, i really don't remember this place being so infected by their brand of poisonous self-hatred and bitterness, but i think they've been building up here for a long time, I don't think it's a recent thing

but also i'd imagine at least a few of them aren't trans at all and are just acting entirely in bad faith, most of them are trans though I'm sure, you can kind of tell the difference, i mean both are garbage though

Phoebe Pockwill - Wed, 28 Aug 2019 06:40:42 EST oi/uUPq3No.406527 Reply >>406524You're talking as if being trans is positive. I mean we get like 3 posts a day here, it's inevitable that someone's uses both. Don't you hate yourself too, isn't that why you transitioned? This place used to be very active then it died out, was the first place I used way back in 2008 or so, maybe earlier when it used to be about cross dressing and then naturally became where I met some of our sisters. Ugh wish I remember their names, I think there was some iowa asian mod from 420chan too that used to come here too. Anyway I feel like after years and years of practicing the "female arts" I still don't pass and it's a never ending battle with dysphoria, getting clocked randomly, googling the surgery to pass for it, crying at the cost or the effects and saving up for it anyway. Always doing like OP says, trying to imitate how a female would do it, getting pretty good at it or so I think and being clocked anyway. I wouldn't call out sisters garbage, we know how it feels and sadly I don't pass all the time. Fuck... the short asian anon said something about passing not being the end all but it's all I and the OP ever wanted, they probably pass more than me and still have negative experiences not passing. Maybe she's right it's all I ever wanted. I got clocked on the train recently by high schoolers or something, they were even making fun of another boy in their group calling him gay chocolate and that I was his most attractive girlfriend. I don't pass as well as I thought. ;_;

If not soon then when? You're giving up your masculine ego so the best thing you can do is be humble. You don't have to do it all at once. Do you go anywhere during the day? Like college for instance? That's how I started, actually. What I would do was bring a change of clothes with me and then dive into the all gender restroom and then get changed. Yeah I was scared but nothing bad happened and everybody was very kind and it was really encouraging. After about 3 days I decided I was ready to go full-time. It's a progressive thing that levels up as long as you keep at it. Once you nail one thing move onto the next and don't worry about passing. Girls have to act like girls too! We dress up and do our hair, makeup, nails, make sure our outfits are on point, always make sure our voices sound great with test words like "um", all sorts of little things that have become who we are.I hope you live in a city where you won't be assaulted for being yourself. You probably do though...

Henry Garrynat - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 01:55:02 EST zoklygxcNo.406541 Reply >>406536I tried to do just that some time ago with the GSA club at my school, but it became a hassle to carry all of my shit around with me and to make sure I have room to change into everything without such things touching the disgusting as fuck flooring that even the all gender restrooms on campus have. That was when I realized that I have to either go full time or just being a chicken-shit and I'm starting to get tired of being the latter.

I just wish I knew exactly what I need to do to hide my stubble on my face. I tried everything and while I am able to hide the stubble on the cheeks. The stubble that was residue from my goatee remains and I don't know how to cover that up. Plus I think the estrogen managed to make the hairs of my mushtache stubble even darker than it was off of the stuff for some reason.

And I live in Victimville, California. Fuck it, might as well reveal that. It's essentially a place where ex-felons, rednecks, desert rats, and criminals go to live.

>I just wish I knew exactly what I need to do to hide my stubble on my face. I tried everything and while I am able to hide the stubble on the cheeks. The stubble that was residue from my goatee remains and I don't know how to cover that up.

Start with color correction and then put foundation on top of that! Go to your local mall and I promise that they'll be thrilled to help you explore all your options.

>Plus I think the estrogen managed to make the hairs of my mushtache stubble even darker than it was off of the stuff for some reason.

That's probably a result of your skin getting thinner. Anyways you could epiliate if you can't afford electrolysis, but the only issue is that it's not permanent of course. Makeup can help here as well.

bright red hair makes most people look more feminine, also it somehow works as a "it's ok to talk to me" sign, and people start saying things like "what about that weather!?" or "ha ha, aren't busses often late!" which can be really nice and make one feel accepted, just my experience

Henry Demblebury - Sat, 07 Sep 2019 19:39:31 EST 31r/BKcONo.406570 Reply >>406568Yeah, it wouldnt be fair to give that impression to people if you're actually a spergburglar whos worried about being mistaken for a feminist

Samuel Nudgeden - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 02:52:46 EST zoklygxcNo.406581 Reply 1568098366125.png -(687028B / 670.93KB, 757x596) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. I get the feeling that I am just going to have to take a leap of faith if I ever want to start presenting full time. Otherwise, my chicken shit fears of being assaulted on the bus or other places will never go away. Maybe I need to trust in the universe more since as I noted above it might be giving me the signal to go take that big leap of faith (lol quite literally too I'd imagine). Thank you all for your help. This community was actually one of my first transgender online communities I've been too since I was, god, I don't even recall. It's been a long time really. I feel like I am one of the old-timers here who is only now transitioning without any interruption while everyone else from long ago has more or less grown into their new bodies. I suppose I've always been slow at practically anything in my life so I should have expected this to be the same.

"You won't. It's a leap of faith. That's all it is... A leap of faith." — Peter Parker, Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

Hamilton Sottinglune - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 09:43:39 EST qWEqRkllNo.406582 Reply >>406543Am I enthusiastic for trying to inject practical advice into a blatant hug-fishing thread? I do this a lot, then I get salty no-one acknowledges me.