Tough week for casinos in Saratoga

Members of the Saratoga Springs business community continue to have serious concerns about casino gambling. The Saratoga Springs Downtown Business Association (DBA), a group of small business owners in the city, conducted an “informal, internal” survey among members on the issue this winter. It recently published the results in its February newsletter. Here were the questions and answers from the survey as of Jan. 28, according to the DBA web site.Q: “Are you for or against a Las Vegas-style destination casino in the city of Saratoga Springs?”Survey said: 54 AGAINST; 28 FOR; 2 “in the middle;” 2 UNSURE.

Q: “Do you feel there will be a positive or negative effect on your business if Saratoga Springs is chosen as a site for Las Vegas-style casino?” Survey says: 43 NEGATIVE; 28 POSITIVE; 8 ABSTAINED; 1 in the middle; 4 UNSURE; 1 NEITHER.

The results were not surprising, Colin Klepetar, co-founder of Saratogians Against Vegas-Style Expansion, said in a statement. “Many downtown business owners have serious concerns about the impact of a casino resort on their livelihoods,” Klepetar said. “In order for casinos to be successful, they need to keep people on site.”

Morgan Hook, spokesperson for Destination Saratoga, a group that supports expanded the casino with table games, released a statement. “We know a full casino is coming to the Capital Region, and the question now is whether it’s better for downtown Saratoga businesses to have that casino here or somewhere else nearby,” Hook said. “Alternatively, the casino could be built in a location that competes with Saratoga, which would pull hundreds of thousands of visitors away from downtown.”

Also, members of the Saratoga Springs City Center Authority board passed a unanimous resolution last week that opposing a “multi-purpose event center” that would be constructed at Saratoga Casino and Raceway this spring. The casino’s owners say they are building a 24,000-square-foot, 2,000-seat event center that anticipates the state’s expansion of casino gambling at up to four upstate locations this year. The Saratoga Springs City Center is a conference/convention facility on Broadway concerned about competing against an operation fueled by casino profits, President Mark Baker said. Here’s the final paragraph of the city center resolution, passed on Wednesday:

“The Saratoga Springs City Center Authority strongly opposes the construction of the proposed casino multi-purpose event center, unless the structure can be modified and the negative impacts can be mitigated by operational arrangements and binding agreements, similar to those put forth by The UpState Theater Coalition for a Fairgame, which would include modification of the size; maximum of 10,000 square feet of flat floor space, or reduction of seating capacity to 1,000 fixed seats or less; defined scope of intended use of the proposed facility; agreed strategy for booking and exclusivity understandings; agreed strategy for collaborative scheduling events.”

Members of the City Center Authority will make a public presentation of the Resolution at Tuesday’s City Council meeting. The business community in Saratoga Springs has traditionally wielded strong political power. Their concerns were captured inthis TU article last month.

Dennis Yusko

41 Responses

Well CB. the way I see it, Hotels, condos, and Entertainment venues are popping out of the ground like mushrooms in horse manure and other than the exception of both at the Racino, no one seems to care. I believe it has less to do with what the Racino wants to build than the fear that mocha latte, charlie and elmer have that it will bring the “wrong people” to our town. The fear of the unknown in this case is ironic “we don’t want to be known as a gambling town” “we don’t want the wrong element” “we don’t want prostitution and drugs and organized crime types” I believe the problem is this. The majority of the people that are against these things must be first generation saratogians . My favorite is “we don’t want to be known as a gambling town”!! SAY WHAT??!! Please please please explain when Saratoga was anything but a gambling town? The minute 2 wealthy men decided to race their horses down broadway Saratoga became the gambling mecca of the rich, and they forgot about the healing waters! We have a rich somewhat seedy colorful history, for some reason forgotten by the “new saratogians” or hidden in the basement like “crazy aunt Martha” when company comes! The best madam and bordello on north broadway, the best bootleg booze in upstate n.y. , the likes of gangsters and back room gambling parlors, con men to dupe the rich, and the Canfield Casino that for some reason people must think was built for “ladies tea” and although I do know in the 60’s there was an opium den on the second floor of one of the buildings on Phila street, and you could get stoned just being at The Who concert at SPAC, But was told that opium and pot were popular way before the 60’s. (yes I am that old) I have never seen so many people that are afraid that, what our city is really all about and always has been will seep out of the woodwork and embarrass the “new saratogians” If Mocha Latte, Charlie, and the rest like Mocha and Charlie could find a way to hide our past, our elderly and the undesirable “rif-raf” that wander Broadway in a drunken stupor any night of the week, and tweak our history so that Saratoga was settled by the Shakers or some other religious fanatic group that found eternal life in the waters of our springs they would.

Isn’t it interesting that many pro-casino commenters resort to name calling and insults, instead of making a coherent argument. Fact: casino revenue is down in many places, and the industry itself reports an over-saturation of casinos in the Northeast. Fact: places that get casinos see increased crime and social problems. Fact: a high percentage of casino revenue comes from problem gamblers, who face serious financial and other problems. Fact: Saratoga itself has seen how reliable casino revenue might be when the state zeroed out the promised funds from the racino. Some of the originally promissed money was restored, but not all of it. Fact: the city does not control what can be built on that site, nor does it control what would happen if the current owners sold out. Fact: Saratoga is a prosperous and vibrant city that is attracting new businesses all over town. Hotels are being built, bars and restaurants are packed, house values are high, and the quality of life is great. Fact: Saratoga doesn’t need to sell its soul to grovel for casino revenue–our economy is doing just fine without.

the plans for a hotle at the racino have been in the works with or without a full table gamining establishemnt. there were photos of it in one of the papers last year. the proposed building is actually quite nice and fits the “saratoga landscape” quite nicely. actually much nicer than most of the bonaccio structures and other’s on or near broadway

Cb, we got sideways at some point. I have no position on whether a hotel is a good or a bad thing at the casino, but I am guaranteeing that there will be one wherever the casino is built. Anyone who is “pro-casino” but “anti-hotel” is not being realistic (same with the perfomance venue). It is not going to be an either/or proposition for any site.

Joe, if you are in any way referring to my comment to mocha latte. You need to re-read mocha comment. Mocha was blatantly insulting the “elderly patrons” at the Racino. Not a word about the younger patrons or really nothing about the racino past the lights and noise. Mocha doesn’t really seem to be all that bothered by a casino, just old people enjoying their “twilight years” the way they want to. And please back up your facts with numbers. Real numbers. And Skibum73 sums it up best. downtown saratoga has the best hottest downtown in upstate n.y. for the past 10 years. Why the same amount of years that the Racino has been in business…hmmm coincidence?

Joe, what I find interesting from having read just about everything in both papers is that we have 2 sides, for and against. Oddly those that are Pro-casino, very few actually mention wanting to gamble as much as the financial return for the city and county. They do seem to have to refresh the fact to those against, that seem to think that “we don’t want to be known as a gambling town” “we don’t want that element in our town that comes with a casino” and ” we don’t want a Casino in our town” and then hide behind it destroying downtown. FACT : We have always been known as a gambling town, FACT: We already have a Casino in Saratoga, actually 2 .. the Canfield Casino, and the Racino, although only one is functioning as a gambling establishment, and FACT: with the amount of bars, and clubs downtown, the amount of hotels, the flat track, and the racino we already have the “element” that they don’t want is here. I keep seeing where the “against” are tossing out numbers and facts. But I have yet to see anyone back these numbers up with real numbers, or real facts. You can’t take the numbers from say, one Conn. town with a Casino and tally up the crime, poverty, gambling addiction, alcohol related use, drugs, prostitution without first doing the numbers for Saratoga without a full gaming Casino, that has more bars and clubs, 2 tracks, a racino ( all three gambling venues) drug arrests at SPAC concerts, Drug arrests for sales, Alcohol related crimes, both driving and fights, prostitution arrests, rapes, domestic violence (after all I have seen where the against think the numbers will be high when gambling comes to town) Why doesn’t the against pay someone to do a social network analysis of Saratoga crime and Conn. Crime . Or Hire a group or have one person read all of the police reports for both cities (all records are public, except minors). I think without a full gaming Casino, at the moment we are going to find that we are looking at apples and oranges, and quite possibly the numbers are going to fall heavier on Saratoga as we sit right now. As for the Against not name calling or insults. read between the lines, They are name calling and insulting everyone that they feel is below them on a whole. I personally don’t care if we get a Casino or not as far as for my own entertainment. I don’t gamble, but I also don’t have issue with those that do. I do fear that if another town gets the contract for a Casino, we are going to lose much more than what the “against” feel we are going to lose. The numbers prove that there were 2.1 million patrons last year at the Racino, If a full table Casino opens in another county. The Racino will go dark, as will harness racing. And 2.1 million patrons will head to the new and improved casino.

One paragraph from the article: The benefits of casinos are short-term and easy to measure, but many costs pop up during the longer term that are harder to quantify. Economic stimulus fades after the casino becomes a dominant business that drives out established local businesses, such as restaurants, replacing them with pawnshops, auto title lenders and check-cashing stores. And since problem gambling develops over four to seven years, the stress on families and finances may gradually become apparent.

okay, read the article. It is based on “gaming machines” and addiction. Or VLT’s, that we have had in saratoga for 10 years. I have not seen where in the past 10 years we have lost restaurants, businesses, in fact quite the contrary, and really haven’t seen a lot of pawn shops pop up in saratoga. What is missing in this article is a study on, on line gambling addiction, Horse racing addiction, etc. A study can’t be biased on gambling addictions, any more than a study of substance abuse. Any study of Gambling addiction as with substance abuse addiction both have to be designed with percentage on “drug of choice” i.e. an alcoholic may not be addicted to heroin or cocaine ( or may have never even tried them) And for that matter it has to have a control group. (the recreational user, being the control group in both a substance abuse and also gambling or shopping or eating addiction study)

good point. if I buy a pair of shoes I need them, if I buy 10 pair of shoes then I either have 20 feet or a possible problem. There is a person that I see every time I go to the gas station or price chopper buying scratch offs.. in quantity, and then busy scratching them off. I on the other hand, I play 2 numbers for mega millions, nothing else and go to the track 3 times a year. ( seeing as I know of the person that buys scratch offs. I know they don’t go to the racino or the track. ) Any way I look at it, this person has a problem, although not my place to judge. My point here is why is it that people seem to think that the only possible gambling issue is a casino? We have lottery, otb, the racino, the racetrack, bingo, scratch-offs, illegal poker games ( sort of name your poison) and everyone is focused on Casino gaming as the downfall of society. Please enlighten me..