Jay Hamernick oral history transcript

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1
“GREEN” 1970 CONSERVATION IN ACTION
JAY HAMERNICK OUTDOOR PLANNER
US FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE
[Recording of a radio broadcast]
KEN: …the season when our recreational activities in the out of doors turn from
traditional picnicking and boating and hunting to some of the out door sports like ice
fishing and skiing, snowmobiling and attendance at winter carnivals of which the cold and
snow are really a part. Now, we turn our attention to other activities such as basketball
games, and hockey games. In fact we might call this period of the year an “in between
time” which has it’s own special entertainment features, for those who like either indoor
or outdoor sports. Deep snow and think ice are no barriers to the enjoyment of the
outdoor enthusiast at this time of year. Let’s start out our 1970 Conservation in Action
Program with a discussion of winter activities, which are open to our people here in the
Upper Mississippi valley. And here to discuss this with me is Jay Hamerwick,
Recreation Specialist of the Upper Mississippi Refuge staff who is involved in the study
of needs and problems of the outdoor recreational world. First of all Jay, let’s discuss
some of the main winter activities or sports that are available here on the Refuge and in
the river valley locality during this season. What are some of them?
MR. HAMERNICK: Ken, I believe that the number one winter outdoor sport in this
area is probably ice fishing. As you know, this is an excellent time of year for fishing,
particularly for pan fish. And we have many, many thousands of people that do come to
the river for this activity. So that during the winter months, once the ice is frozen solid,
why, this is perhaps the number one activity on the river. There are a number of other
sports that are rapidly increasing in popularity. We are seeing more and more of the ski
slopes and tows coming into existence on the bluffs along the river. They are even able to
extend the season on some of these areas with the production of artificial snow. We have
some of the traditional sports such as ice-skating. We are seeing some other relatively
new things in this area; cross-country skiing, and snow shoeing would be another
possibility. So there are quite a few of these sports that are available at this time of year
for those who enjoy getting out when it’s cold, and enjoy seeing the snow. We have some
of our activities from the rest of the year that are even popular now. I am thinking
primarily now of our bird watching. We have many new species that are present here
during the winter months that will not be seen in this vicinity during the summer. We
have a good opportunity to observe our winter birds at close hand because natural foods
are largely inaccessible to birds now. They come readily to feeders, and many people
enjoy putting out their feeders during the winter months to see a variety of birds in their
own yards right up close.
KEN: So, in other words the advent of winter is no reason to stop our enjoyment of the
out of doors world, it is?
2
MR. HAMERNICK: Not in the least.
KEN: Jay, let’s discuss some of the presently popular winter sports. The advent of
these remarkable little vehicles, the snowmobiles. The growth of these has literally
mushroomed. And they are literally very maneuverable little machine, which can literally
go many places that you can’t with conventional vehicles. Let’s discuss some of the
operation of these machines. And also in the interest of people conservation; some of the
things that should be avoided and accidents that can happen, so that they can enjoy this
sport to the fullest without some of these tragic happenings.
MR. HAMERNICK: This indeed a fast growing sport in the country that has snow.
The machines are relatively new, yet we are seeing several hundred thousand of them. In
Minnesota and Wisconsin they are experiencing the same type of thing. They offer
tremendous possibilities for the winter period. People are able to get back into country
that they were not able to get into at other times of the year. People can go much further
than they were able to go on foot, so they have some real advantages. They are a machine
that is, let’s say fun, or exciting to operate. Compared to certain other forms of
recreation, why, either through renting or purchasing one the sport is not overly
expensive so it’s something that is available to a broad class of our population. But it’s a
tremendous winter sport. And it is one that is growing very rapidly.
KEN: Now, in connection with the use of these remarkable new snow machines, there are
a few precautions, which should be observed. I’d like to ask you about of few of them.
What about leaving these machines, or getting off of them when they are moving? There
is hazard there too, just like getting out of a moving automobile isn’t there?
MR. HAMERNICK: That’s right Ken. I think that this is a very good point to make.
These are very similar to an automobile in certain respects. I think that because the
machines are so new, and because they have come so quickly, and because they are
relatively simple to start and set in motion, we find that anyone, even small children are
able to get on one of these and set it in motion. This is where your real hazard comes in.
People who are not familiar with the machine and with what the machine can do, and with
what it cannot do, can be inviting disaster for themselves. I imagine that many of our
listeners will recall the demise of an entire family on a Minnesota lake last year. I think
that here along the river, this is perhaps our greatest hazard. The machines are light
relatively speaking, and perhaps people are willing to take chances with them on ice that
they might not take with a vehicle that would be much heavier. So there are things like
this that the operators must become familiar with before they really venture out on these
machines.
3
KEN: In other words, the experienced drivers of these machines should train the
youngsters who are coming up and learning to drive them, or other drivers who want to
know how to handle them safely?
MR. HAMERNICK: Right. And I think it would be a good idea to learn to handle these,
let’s say, more in your own back yard to begin with, where you have relatively level
terrain. And you should start out operating the machines at slower speeds and so on, just
until the machine becomes familiar to the operator. Then you can really head out into the
wide-open country and into areas where you are further away from help if something
should go wrong with the machine.
KEN: What are some of the other common precautions that should observed in operating
these small snowmobiles that are coming out on the market in such numbers?
MR. HAMERNICK: Well, there are a number of hazards in snowmobile operations that
we probably should note. I have here a list of major ones that have been pointed up as a
result of interviews with victims. Perhaps some people feel that this might be placing an
undue emphasis on the negative side. Yet, I feel that we do owe our listeners something
here, in placing them in a position where they are aware of the possibilities. During the
past winter, fifty-one people died as a result of using snowmobiles. The accident causes
break down in frequency like this; the number one was drowning from venturing out on
thin ice. Then there are three categories of collisions with other vehicles, either
snowmobiles or automobiles: then, collisions with fixed objects, and surprisingly enough
and often enough to deserve a category all by itself; collisions with trains. So there are
your major sources of accidents with snowmobiles. Now, we can just mention some of
the hazards. Some of them we referred to: the lack of experience, and the same as with a
car; operating at too high a speed. One that is very prevalent and that is quite serious is
the jumps. This is the most prevalent cause of broken backs. I think we see a great deal
of this being done in advertising by the snowmobile industry. It looks exciting. It looks
easy. And yet, for an inexperienced operator, it is a real risk to his back. The same as
with a car; alcohol can be a real problem in operating these machines. They are somewhat
unstable on steep slopes or on rugged country. A person who in not in control of himself
is going to have difficulty controlling the machine and he is inviting real hazard here.
Running across country as people generally do with these machines, barbed wire presents
a real hazard for them. This is related to their speed and also to lack of visibility. Often
times we find that the drivers of these snowmobiles will over drive their headlights, the
same as the operator of an automobile will do. Here again is the responsibility of the
driver to know how fast he can safely go and still be within range of his headlight. These
are a number of hazards that have been determined as a result of actual interviews with
people who have had some unfortunate accidents.
4
KEN: What are some recommendations, Jay, on the precautions to take in the operations
of these machines to avoid some of these incidents that you have mentioned? How about
visibility for instance? Is that a factor in operating these small snow travel machines?
MR. HAMERNICK: Yes, it is Ken. And one of the things that all of the experts seem
to agree on is that ski goggles, with interchangeable colored glasses are a must. Tinting of
windshields does not seem to be affective for all conditions. To make your own machine
visible to other machines some of suggested a flag, or a ball on an antenna. These
machines have a low silhouette. And something like this that would stand up vertical
would help in enabling the machine to be seen more easily. Night driving is not especially
recommended on these machines. But sometimes it is necessary to do so. Good lights are
a must and the addition of reflective tape on the sides and rear will serve much the same
purpose that your backup or tail lights on an automobile serve.
KEN: What are some of the other precautions? How about maintenance on these
machines? That’s important, like on a car.
MR. HAMERNICK: Yes, it is. Owners must become educated to this aspect of owning
a machine. Manufacturers feel that the manuals are seldom read. Thus, a lengthy
discussion in them on maintenance is useless. A person who has one of these machines,
that is, a person who has purchased one should see their dealer for information on
maintaining it. Those who are renting them should at least talk with the individuals from
whom they rent them to see what maintenance or precaution in operation might be
necessary.
KEN: Well, it’s the wise use of anything, rather than the abuse of something that results
in problems. You mentioned fences being a hazard to driving the snowmobiles across the
county. Certainly, that’s also a problem in keeping the good will of the landowners,
property owners, and farmers and others who have to maintain fences. If they find them
cut or damaged by running a machine through them, why, that’s not going to make them
happy or course and will inevitably lead to restrictions.
MR. HAMERNICK: I think we have an opportunity here Ken, with a sport that is new,
and newly developing, for the snowmobilers themselves to develop a set of ethics for the
operation of these machines. I don’t think it should be necessary for the public agencies
to have to step in and have to legislate, and to set regulations that are going to restrict and
hinder these people. We realize in any sport that there are always a few who spoil it for
the others, or spoil it for the majority. I think that as smowmobilers themselves get
together and become aware of the problems in operating these machines and take it upon
themselves to operate them in a safe and courteous manner respecting the rights of
landowners and others. I think we have here a sport that offers tremendous opportunity
for public enjoyment without necessarily being harmful to the interests of others.
5
KEN: They can be a wonderful asset in such things as simply looking up wildlife out in
the territory; getting photographs, and simply watching birds and mammals. They can
also raise problems with unlawful pursuit of animals. I think that there is legislation
against that in most of the states at present. Speaking of hazards of operation equipment
in winter conditions, another factor that interests me is this driving of cars out onto the
ice. Now, there is now law against it to our knowledge, except the law of common sense
and safety. What do you think of the practice of driving cars out there? Should they do
any exploratory driving, or should they stay on the main traveled path where someone
else has beaten the way in?
MR. HAMERNICK: Well, I think that if you are going to go out on the ice, obviously go
in areas that have already been traveled. However, I would sum up my personal feelings
on this Ken this way; here on the Wildlife Refuge where we operate public property, we
have a rule, we never take one of our vehicles out on the ice. I suppose this might sound
like an extreme position. But particularly because we are dealing with property that the
taxpayer has to purchase, it simply is not worth taking a foolish chance. I think that
possibly this might be a good rule for the individual. It would do a person good, possibly
to get out, and to walk a little bit, perhaps on snowshoes or maybe on skis. But on a
river such as the upper Mississippi, why, I think it’s very seldom that you can be certain
that the ice is safe. I recall being with our District Manager down at Cassville, just a short
time ago. At a very popular ice fishing area down there, cars drive out a good mile or
perhaps more to reach it. However, Gene was pointing out that the area that they have to
cross will very often be frozen solid when they go out in the morning and if they spend
the day and come back in later that afternoon, they find open running water. The currents
in the river, even in some of these back sloughs are not dependable. This is a real hazard
that people should become aware of. I am sure all of us see, almost every winter at least
one or two cars being fished out of the river. It’s a terrible inconvenience if not an
outright loss of life.
KEN: In connection with driving automobiles out onto the ice, I recall an incident in
northwestern Minnesota when two fellows drove out to the middle of a lake which had a
maximum depth of about fifteen or twenty feet in the center. They went through the ice.
They kept their presence of mind sufficiently to get out of the place where they had
broken through, and they were two very frighten people. But they did get out
successfully and they retrieved the car. But as you say, on the river with the
unpredictable action of the current under the ice you never know what the condition of
the ice may be, even in a period of a few hours.
MR. HAMERNICK: That’s right Ken, and as you mentioned these fellows in this lake
were able to get out of the vehicle and come back up where they had gone through.
However, in a river situation the current may very well move you down stream to the
point where you are not able to come back up. So even in a situation where you might
6
have the time, or the water might not be too deep for you to get back out, on the river you
might not be able, because of the current, to reach the hole.
KEN: The problem of driving out on the ice of course is up to the individual. But we do
urge at least, that you do say on the beaten paths, which have more opportunity to freeze
more solidly, and exercise every care while you are out there. Is there any other final
advice on ‘people conservation’ we might call it, to avoid some of the winter accidents
while out ice fishing and in other pursuits?
MR. HAMERNICK: I think Ken, as you suggested a moment ago, the law of common
sense. If people simply would think about what they are doing, if they would adequately
prepare themselves before they go out, and use good judgment when they are out on the
ice and use plenty of caution. I think they have the opportunity for a tremendous
amount of enjoyment and at the same time, not to fear some tragedy that would very well
spoil the thing that they particularly enjoy doing.
KEN: I believe that our time is nearing an end. We’ve been interviewing Jay Hamerwick
of the Upper Mississippi Refuge staff, on the winter sports: the ice fishing, the operation
of snowmobiles and related pursuits in the outdoors at this time of year. Until next week
at this time, good-bye for Conservation in Action.

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1
“GREEN” 1970 CONSERVATION IN ACTION
JAY HAMERNICK OUTDOOR PLANNER
US FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE
[Recording of a radio broadcast]
KEN: …the season when our recreational activities in the out of doors turn from
traditional picnicking and boating and hunting to some of the out door sports like ice
fishing and skiing, snowmobiling and attendance at winter carnivals of which the cold and
snow are really a part. Now, we turn our attention to other activities such as basketball
games, and hockey games. In fact we might call this period of the year an “in between
time” which has it’s own special entertainment features, for those who like either indoor
or outdoor sports. Deep snow and think ice are no barriers to the enjoyment of the
outdoor enthusiast at this time of year. Let’s start out our 1970 Conservation in Action
Program with a discussion of winter activities, which are open to our people here in the
Upper Mississippi valley. And here to discuss this with me is Jay Hamerwick,
Recreation Specialist of the Upper Mississippi Refuge staff who is involved in the study
of needs and problems of the outdoor recreational world. First of all Jay, let’s discuss
some of the main winter activities or sports that are available here on the Refuge and in
the river valley locality during this season. What are some of them?
MR. HAMERNICK: Ken, I believe that the number one winter outdoor sport in this
area is probably ice fishing. As you know, this is an excellent time of year for fishing,
particularly for pan fish. And we have many, many thousands of people that do come to
the river for this activity. So that during the winter months, once the ice is frozen solid,
why, this is perhaps the number one activity on the river. There are a number of other
sports that are rapidly increasing in popularity. We are seeing more and more of the ski
slopes and tows coming into existence on the bluffs along the river. They are even able to
extend the season on some of these areas with the production of artificial snow. We have
some of the traditional sports such as ice-skating. We are seeing some other relatively
new things in this area; cross-country skiing, and snow shoeing would be another
possibility. So there are quite a few of these sports that are available at this time of year
for those who enjoy getting out when it’s cold, and enjoy seeing the snow. We have some
of our activities from the rest of the year that are even popular now. I am thinking
primarily now of our bird watching. We have many new species that are present here
during the winter months that will not be seen in this vicinity during the summer. We
have a good opportunity to observe our winter birds at close hand because natural foods
are largely inaccessible to birds now. They come readily to feeders, and many people
enjoy putting out their feeders during the winter months to see a variety of birds in their
own yards right up close.
KEN: So, in other words the advent of winter is no reason to stop our enjoyment of the
out of doors world, it is?
2
MR. HAMERNICK: Not in the least.
KEN: Jay, let’s discuss some of the presently popular winter sports. The advent of
these remarkable little vehicles, the snowmobiles. The growth of these has literally
mushroomed. And they are literally very maneuverable little machine, which can literally
go many places that you can’t with conventional vehicles. Let’s discuss some of the
operation of these machines. And also in the interest of people conservation; some of the
things that should be avoided and accidents that can happen, so that they can enjoy this
sport to the fullest without some of these tragic happenings.
MR. HAMERNICK: This indeed a fast growing sport in the country that has snow.
The machines are relatively new, yet we are seeing several hundred thousand of them. In
Minnesota and Wisconsin they are experiencing the same type of thing. They offer
tremendous possibilities for the winter period. People are able to get back into country
that they were not able to get into at other times of the year. People can go much further
than they were able to go on foot, so they have some real advantages. They are a machine
that is, let’s say fun, or exciting to operate. Compared to certain other forms of
recreation, why, either through renting or purchasing one the sport is not overly
expensive so it’s something that is available to a broad class of our population. But it’s a
tremendous winter sport. And it is one that is growing very rapidly.
KEN: Now, in connection with the use of these remarkable new snow machines, there are
a few precautions, which should be observed. I’d like to ask you about of few of them.
What about leaving these machines, or getting off of them when they are moving? There
is hazard there too, just like getting out of a moving automobile isn’t there?
MR. HAMERNICK: That’s right Ken. I think that this is a very good point to make.
These are very similar to an automobile in certain respects. I think that because the
machines are so new, and because they have come so quickly, and because they are
relatively simple to start and set in motion, we find that anyone, even small children are
able to get on one of these and set it in motion. This is where your real hazard comes in.
People who are not familiar with the machine and with what the machine can do, and with
what it cannot do, can be inviting disaster for themselves. I imagine that many of our
listeners will recall the demise of an entire family on a Minnesota lake last year. I think
that here along the river, this is perhaps our greatest hazard. The machines are light
relatively speaking, and perhaps people are willing to take chances with them on ice that
they might not take with a vehicle that would be much heavier. So there are things like
this that the operators must become familiar with before they really venture out on these
machines.
3
KEN: In other words, the experienced drivers of these machines should train the
youngsters who are coming up and learning to drive them, or other drivers who want to
know how to handle them safely?
MR. HAMERNICK: Right. And I think it would be a good idea to learn to handle these,
let’s say, more in your own back yard to begin with, where you have relatively level
terrain. And you should start out operating the machines at slower speeds and so on, just
until the machine becomes familiar to the operator. Then you can really head out into the
wide-open country and into areas where you are further away from help if something
should go wrong with the machine.
KEN: What are some of the other common precautions that should observed in operating
these small snowmobiles that are coming out on the market in such numbers?
MR. HAMERNICK: Well, there are a number of hazards in snowmobile operations that
we probably should note. I have here a list of major ones that have been pointed up as a
result of interviews with victims. Perhaps some people feel that this might be placing an
undue emphasis on the negative side. Yet, I feel that we do owe our listeners something
here, in placing them in a position where they are aware of the possibilities. During the
past winter, fifty-one people died as a result of using snowmobiles. The accident causes
break down in frequency like this; the number one was drowning from venturing out on
thin ice. Then there are three categories of collisions with other vehicles, either
snowmobiles or automobiles: then, collisions with fixed objects, and surprisingly enough
and often enough to deserve a category all by itself; collisions with trains. So there are
your major sources of accidents with snowmobiles. Now, we can just mention some of
the hazards. Some of them we referred to: the lack of experience, and the same as with a
car; operating at too high a speed. One that is very prevalent and that is quite serious is
the jumps. This is the most prevalent cause of broken backs. I think we see a great deal
of this being done in advertising by the snowmobile industry. It looks exciting. It looks
easy. And yet, for an inexperienced operator, it is a real risk to his back. The same as
with a car; alcohol can be a real problem in operating these machines. They are somewhat
unstable on steep slopes or on rugged country. A person who in not in control of himself
is going to have difficulty controlling the machine and he is inviting real hazard here.
Running across country as people generally do with these machines, barbed wire presents
a real hazard for them. This is related to their speed and also to lack of visibility. Often
times we find that the drivers of these snowmobiles will over drive their headlights, the
same as the operator of an automobile will do. Here again is the responsibility of the
driver to know how fast he can safely go and still be within range of his headlight. These
are a number of hazards that have been determined as a result of actual interviews with
people who have had some unfortunate accidents.
4
KEN: What are some recommendations, Jay, on the precautions to take in the operations
of these machines to avoid some of these incidents that you have mentioned? How about
visibility for instance? Is that a factor in operating these small snow travel machines?
MR. HAMERNICK: Yes, it is Ken. And one of the things that all of the experts seem
to agree on is that ski goggles, with interchangeable colored glasses are a must. Tinting of
windshields does not seem to be affective for all conditions. To make your own machine
visible to other machines some of suggested a flag, or a ball on an antenna. These
machines have a low silhouette. And something like this that would stand up vertical
would help in enabling the machine to be seen more easily. Night driving is not especially
recommended on these machines. But sometimes it is necessary to do so. Good lights are
a must and the addition of reflective tape on the sides and rear will serve much the same
purpose that your backup or tail lights on an automobile serve.
KEN: What are some of the other precautions? How about maintenance on these
machines? That’s important, like on a car.
MR. HAMERNICK: Yes, it is. Owners must become educated to this aspect of owning
a machine. Manufacturers feel that the manuals are seldom read. Thus, a lengthy
discussion in them on maintenance is useless. A person who has one of these machines,
that is, a person who has purchased one should see their dealer for information on
maintaining it. Those who are renting them should at least talk with the individuals from
whom they rent them to see what maintenance or precaution in operation might be
necessary.
KEN: Well, it’s the wise use of anything, rather than the abuse of something that results
in problems. You mentioned fences being a hazard to driving the snowmobiles across the
county. Certainly, that’s also a problem in keeping the good will of the landowners,
property owners, and farmers and others who have to maintain fences. If they find them
cut or damaged by running a machine through them, why, that’s not going to make them
happy or course and will inevitably lead to restrictions.
MR. HAMERNICK: I think we have an opportunity here Ken, with a sport that is new,
and newly developing, for the snowmobilers themselves to develop a set of ethics for the
operation of these machines. I don’t think it should be necessary for the public agencies
to have to step in and have to legislate, and to set regulations that are going to restrict and
hinder these people. We realize in any sport that there are always a few who spoil it for
the others, or spoil it for the majority. I think that as smowmobilers themselves get
together and become aware of the problems in operating these machines and take it upon
themselves to operate them in a safe and courteous manner respecting the rights of
landowners and others. I think we have here a sport that offers tremendous opportunity
for public enjoyment without necessarily being harmful to the interests of others.
5
KEN: They can be a wonderful asset in such things as simply looking up wildlife out in
the territory; getting photographs, and simply watching birds and mammals. They can
also raise problems with unlawful pursuit of animals. I think that there is legislation
against that in most of the states at present. Speaking of hazards of operation equipment
in winter conditions, another factor that interests me is this driving of cars out onto the
ice. Now, there is now law against it to our knowledge, except the law of common sense
and safety. What do you think of the practice of driving cars out there? Should they do
any exploratory driving, or should they stay on the main traveled path where someone
else has beaten the way in?
MR. HAMERNICK: Well, I think that if you are going to go out on the ice, obviously go
in areas that have already been traveled. However, I would sum up my personal feelings
on this Ken this way; here on the Wildlife Refuge where we operate public property, we
have a rule, we never take one of our vehicles out on the ice. I suppose this might sound
like an extreme position. But particularly because we are dealing with property that the
taxpayer has to purchase, it simply is not worth taking a foolish chance. I think that
possibly this might be a good rule for the individual. It would do a person good, possibly
to get out, and to walk a little bit, perhaps on snowshoes or maybe on skis. But on a
river such as the upper Mississippi, why, I think it’s very seldom that you can be certain
that the ice is safe. I recall being with our District Manager down at Cassville, just a short
time ago. At a very popular ice fishing area down there, cars drive out a good mile or
perhaps more to reach it. However, Gene was pointing out that the area that they have to
cross will very often be frozen solid when they go out in the morning and if they spend
the day and come back in later that afternoon, they find open running water. The currents
in the river, even in some of these back sloughs are not dependable. This is a real hazard
that people should become aware of. I am sure all of us see, almost every winter at least
one or two cars being fished out of the river. It’s a terrible inconvenience if not an
outright loss of life.
KEN: In connection with driving automobiles out onto the ice, I recall an incident in
northwestern Minnesota when two fellows drove out to the middle of a lake which had a
maximum depth of about fifteen or twenty feet in the center. They went through the ice.
They kept their presence of mind sufficiently to get out of the place where they had
broken through, and they were two very frighten people. But they did get out
successfully and they retrieved the car. But as you say, on the river with the
unpredictable action of the current under the ice you never know what the condition of
the ice may be, even in a period of a few hours.
MR. HAMERNICK: That’s right Ken, and as you mentioned these fellows in this lake
were able to get out of the vehicle and come back up where they had gone through.
However, in a river situation the current may very well move you down stream to the
point where you are not able to come back up. So even in a situation where you might
6
have the time, or the water might not be too deep for you to get back out, on the river you
might not be able, because of the current, to reach the hole.
KEN: The problem of driving out on the ice of course is up to the individual. But we do
urge at least, that you do say on the beaten paths, which have more opportunity to freeze
more solidly, and exercise every care while you are out there. Is there any other final
advice on ‘people conservation’ we might call it, to avoid some of the winter accidents
while out ice fishing and in other pursuits?
MR. HAMERNICK: I think Ken, as you suggested a moment ago, the law of common
sense. If people simply would think about what they are doing, if they would adequately
prepare themselves before they go out, and use good judgment when they are out on the
ice and use plenty of caution. I think they have the opportunity for a tremendous
amount of enjoyment and at the same time, not to fear some tragedy that would very well
spoil the thing that they particularly enjoy doing.
KEN: I believe that our time is nearing an end. We’ve been interviewing Jay Hamerwick
of the Upper Mississippi Refuge staff, on the winter sports: the ice fishing, the operation
of snowmobiles and related pursuits in the outdoors at this time of year. Until next week
at this time, good-bye for Conservation in Action.