I've seen a lot of posts about having to tweak the calories for UDs and DDs so I went on a search for how the numbers on Dr. Johnson's site are actually calculated. I was interested in which formulas he used and what the margin of error is (considering it's ONLY an estimation). I figured he was most likely to give us this information in the book so that's where I started.

What I found is that he uses the Harris Benedict formula for calculating the RMR and UD calories. The formula is as follows:

The result will be multiplied by a factor based on activity:
1.200 = Sedentary (recommended at the beginning)
1.375 = Light activity/exercise
1.550 = Moderate
1.725 = Very Active
1.900 = Extra Active (training for a marathon)
So, to use myself as a guinea pig, my formula would be:

[655 + (4.35*241) + (4.7*63) - (4.7*31)] = 2225

This is the same number I get using the calculator on Dr. Johnson's website.

The most interesting thing I found was the margin of error or deviation in the formula. Dr. Johnson says "there is a standard deviation of 14 percent above and below the number of calories determined by the Harris-Benedict equation. This means that if the equation estimate is 2,000 calories, there is a 95 percent chance the actual number you require may be anywhere from 1,440 to 2,560."

Those inclined to play with the numbers will notice that the range he gives is 28% above and below 2000 for his sample.

Ok, time to think back to my statistics classes (be prepared for the headache). A 95% level of certainty means that there is a 95% chance of falling within 2 standard deviations (14%) of the average (2000), hence the 28% (=2*14%). So, for me, this means my UD calorie requirement could fall anywhere between 1602 and 2848. That is a difference of 1246 calories!

Using this information for DDs, my range would be 320 to 570 (a difference of 250) with an average of 445.

I did all this to point out that, as many have figured out by trial and error, not all of us will lose by following the formula on the website. Some of us will have to tweak quite a bit in order to find our 'sweet spot' and I wanted everyone to see that it is expected and not because there's anything 'wrong' with anyone. I hope this will be useful for those who are having problems or are stuck.

Can you explain just what is meant by the exercise thing too - like what is moderate, etc. and it says like 3 times a week. What is considered walking 4 miles a day? Or only 2 miles a day. And how fast do I walk, etc.

leonak - Thanks! I was hoping it would be helpful. As for the exercise, I edited my post to include the full language Dr. Johnson used for each activity type. I think the easiest levels to determine are Sedentary and Very/Extra active for obvious reasons. As most of us are probably Sedentary, we use those numbers to begin with. I doubt any of us are training for a marathon (Extra Active) or playing College or Pro footbal (Very Active/Extra); at least those of us with lots of weight left to lose.

The hardest, and where most of us try to get into, are the Light vs Moderate levels. Since you said you walk, I'll use that. I do think it depends on how fast you walk and the terrain.

If you're strolling 4 miles everyday, chatting it up with friends while you're doing it, I'd say that's Light, even though it's every day. If that stroll is over significantly hilly terrain or on a sandy beach, it might qualify as Moderate if you find yourself having a hard time talking while you're doing it.

I will add a caveat, though, for those who are not as close to goal as others. I recently started using a Bodymedia Fit monitor and have noticed that just because I cannot talk or think I'm working hard (even if my HRM shows my heart rate is in the burn zone), I'm not qualifying as Moderate or Vigorous activity. So, just because those of us who are really unfit think we're doing Light or Moderate activity, does NOT mean we should change our calories yet.

Thanks for the very informative post about the formula.
Since I have the book, I hand figured my calorie numbers when I started and compared them to the online calculator. Since he stated the margin of error I never got real hung up on a specific UD calorie number and have done fine although by most standards I am losing slowly. But 20 pounds is 20 pounds regardless of fast or slow.

So, apparently I didn't do the edit thing right. Here's the information from Dr. Johnson's book on the activity levels:

1.200 - Sedentary (little or no exercise, you work at a desk job)
1.375 - Lightly active (light exercise or sports 1 to 3 days a week)
1.550 - Moderately active (moderate exercise or sports 3 to 5 days a week)
1.725 - Very active (hard exercise or sports 6 to 7 days a week)
1.900 - Extra active (hard exercise or sports daily, working at a physical job, or training for a marathon or other competitive sport twice a day)

Manday, thank you for researching and calculating this info for us! It's very interesting to me and confirms what I've experienced myself, because my calorie limits are quite a bit different than what they're supposed to be according to the official JUDDD calculator. It makes sense to me because we're all so very different in many ways, even those of us at the same height/weight/age. It took some faith, being stubborn and some trial and error along with careful and diligent daily tracking of weight, calories, what food was eaten, and my monthly cycle for a period of time before I had a clearer picture of my "sweet spot". Also, I've found that the sweet spot changes over time, sometimes for the better.

Sweet! Manday, thank you! I'm no math whiz, so thanks for figuring this out. It does explain the "sweet spot" we often have to find, and shows quite a range we can work with if needed.

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Started JUDDD 10/12/11 after LC.MAINTENANCE since 11/12/11, & have lost more weight. I shake things up all the time with my version of Pirate Jenny's MUDDD, my "Fast 5" & other IF. ...low-moderate fat....and eating "healthy" foods 75+% of the time which lets me have real life and indulgences too I've reached my goals, improved my health & appearance, and enjoy my lifetime woe!

WOW those were some huge number differances,, i need to find my own number that keep working, i am in the process of changing them for past two days to see what if anything can get my loss rolling again

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all of that. Dr. J does seem to know what he is talking about and a lot of thought has gone into this WOE. I certainly enjoy it along with all of the rest of the BUDDDS.

I was thinking that since the deviation provides such a wide range, why not forget including the exercise element altogether and just adjust calories PRN?
That would eliminate problems that arise re your example.

Dr. J does seem to know what he is talking about and a lot of thought has gone into this WOE.

I totally agree. And thanks so much Manday and also those who bumped!

Using the widely accepted Harris-Benedict Principle, BUT explaining the potential for a range of "best" numbers around the targets was, I believe, the highest and best information Dr. Johnson could have given in his attempt to help as many people as possible. I'm very grateful for this mathematical approach to weight-loss, that there is a clear basis for it in research, and how Dr. Johnson applied it to alternate-day eating.

As far as the exercise component, I've grown to believe it's very necessary over my 3 years on JUDDD. I simply lose better when I adjust my caloric numbers according to the exercise I do. I saw this when I first lost in 2009 as well as now when I'm having to recover from a glitch, plus I maintained more easily when I factored in my exercise. Just a personal opinion here, but experience in cooking for a household of men (and dealing with them when they are hungry after activity) tells me that it would be even more helpful for a man!

I realize the difference in exercise caloric numbers may actually fall within the range Manday is talking about, but I think it's helpful to be aware of them and consider whether they will help us lose/feel better.

I can't tell you how glad I am this post was bumped! I was just about to ask about this!!!

My numbers on the JUDDD website suggest over 2600 for up days and 540 for down days. I intuitively know this is just too much. Not only is it usually difficult for me to eat at that level on an up day, it averages out to over 1500 calories per day, and I already know I don't lose at that level. Regardless of what the RMR says mine is, if I don't drop my cals to at least 1300/day or less, I don't lose. Heck, even at that I don't lose.

I have been doing JUDDD for a couple of weeks but not able to stick to 500/day on DDs yet. I lost a bit there but then hit a wall, which is obviously so strange for having only been on plan a couple of weeks. I think it has a lot to do with my thyroid having been unmedicated and now getting the meds. I need a chance to ride that wave for a bit. I am noticing a number of things now that I am on the meds and still ramping up to my correct dosage.

Anyways, I did calculate my RMR at another site that shant be named and it's 2200. "Using the BMR based on the Mifflin - St. Jeor equations". Dr. J calculates I need over 2600.

I am going to recommit to having a super clean July (maybe we need a Clean in July thread?) and keep my UD number at 2000-2200, and try as hard as I can to keep my DD number at 500. I like the idea of shakes, just not sure I can do that for a whole day. I also plan to do ultra low carb and lots of yummy fat!

Upping my DD calories to see if it helps me too. I lost better in the beginning when I was always at 500-600 calories. Seems the general consensus is if you aren't able to deny yourself enough or fast completely on DDs then you just have to deal with not losing. It could be the exact opposite!!!!

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"Never give up on a dream just because of the length of time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway."

I don't really have "trouble" with low DDs. I have trouble fasting completely, but mainly because I don't want to, lol. I don't have the hunger I used to have at all. The last couple of DDs where I went ahead and ate, were not due to simple hunger. However, if eating more on DDs will help me lose faster, plus it's more satisfying to eat a little more, let's face it, then why not? Thanks for the support Flutter!

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"Never give up on a dream just because of the length of time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway."

A 95% confidence interval (crudely, the likelihood that the real figure falls within the range) involves 2 standard deviations in each direction (above and below the stated figure), so that is 14%x2 in each direction rather than 14%x1 both ways.

Bumping. What a great thread. I wish I read this few months ago. I always feel that my UD and DD calories are not enough, maybe that's why I keep failing? This should be made sticky!

Thank you for finding this thread. It is very useful to me as I have been "playing with my numbers" this week. I did indeed go over my up day to 3500, the dd at 1200 then up day at 2500 and lost 2 pounds. I lost weight every day, and body fat.