The Torchwood Thread

In conjunction with the Classic Series Thread I started today, I thought I would start this thread for Torchwood Fans and a chance to resurrect the story threads I stopped last month. I think considering the response it would be better to have one thread for every episode so it can be kept going rather than start a new one each day. My apologies to those who wanted to contribute, I should have thought of this earlier but have been distracted with other issues.

I think the episode we got to was CyberWoman. Never been a big fan of this one. I liked the fact it was the first proper referenced story back to Doctor who, I liked the fact it even gave Ianto a story. I liked the fact that he had the conflict between his girlfriend and his Torchwood Colleagues, always a good plotline.

I did think it showed again how there was a big variety in the show with all the grisly and horror stuff that Lisa commits as the CyberBrain starts to take her over.

Haven't actually rewatched this episode yet but will comment more later. As I said all future episodes will be in this thread rather than the separate ones as before. Hope it will work out this time.

I feel the same way about Cyberwoman, it does have some good elements. As you said, unlike in Doctor Who, Torchwood can show the true horror of a Cyber-conversion, which really is a pretty horrific process! I'd almost like it if they went further with that aspect, but maybe that's just me being sadistic...

Hated Cyberwoman, it's what first made me think that Torchwood was going to be poor. I've still not watched the whole of the first series, it's just so bad. They touted it as the 'grown up' version of Doctor who and it just turned out to be a sniggering teenage version, badly written, poorly acted and with the most annoying character ever devised for a television show, Gwen Effing Cooper. The ratings weren't great for the first series, and for the second series they dropped the longer it was actually on. All in all Torchwood never really hit its stride until it started doing the specials, the first two series were both crap, and John Barrowman pretty much can't carry a tv series because he's not that good an actor.

Ok I tell a lie, the ratings for the third series started off pretty well and remained high. The fourth series started high and dropped immediately. Are they actually going to make any more?

I didn't have a problem with this story. As I remember it was pacey with enough emotional drama. However, I did have a problem with the fallout for Ianto after this story - or rather the lack of any.

Oh, right so Ianto's this character who's just betrayed Torchwood, got a few people killed and the hub damaged and so he has to suffer the consequences. Right?

No. No consequences.

In fact, shortly after, he's promoted on to the team proper, rather than just the pizza and coffee and clean-up boy.

He needed at the very least re-earn the team's trust. At least one story should have shown him doing that with the team doubting him.

That did confuse me, but then again no-one in Torchwood seems to ever get pulled up for doing stuff wrong. Gwen is whiney and pathetic throughout the series, yet she becomes second in command because...well...yeah.

I feel the same way about Cyberwoman, it does have some good elements. As you said, unlike in Doctor Who, Torchwood can show the true horror of a Cyber-conversion, which really is a pretty horrific process! I'd almost like it if they went further with that aspect, but maybe that's just me being sadistic...

I think the violence was more than enough to be honest, though it's true the adult nature of the programme allowed us to see more of the horrors as you described. I just think at times some of it was necessary, like the pizza girl, so didn't think she was needed. I always feel uncomfortable watching this episode when she arrives knowing her fate, it just seems so wrong somehow.

Having just watched the episode again, I did like the way it refers back to Doomsday, even showing the plastic sheeting from that episode where the Cybermen were initially hiding. I'm not really sure how Captain Jack would know about the parallel worlds where the Cybermen came from, as he hadn't seen The Doctor from that Series. The only conclusion being that Torchwood One in London must have logged it somehow prior to it's collapse.

As for Ianto possibly having an episode to redeem himself, yes, it maybe would have been nice but as with Doctor Who sometimes, you just have to move on and maybe there wasn't enough space in the following episode to tie that storyline in. Sometimes it's just best to move onto a new episode. People have complained that RTD was too Soap-like in his time as Doctor Who runner, here he proves it isn't always the case. Seems the guy can't win whatever decision he takes.

Haven't got too much else to say about the episode. As I said previously, not one of the better episodes of this Series, for me, but it was good to see Ianto get a story of his own rather than just being the teaboy.

Cyberwoman is one of the few Torchwood episodes I've seen and I quite like it. However I'm still not to keen on the general tone etc, nor the acting from Barrowman, but thats really a problem with Torchwood rather than the episode itself. It's a nice way of connecting Torchwood to Dr Who, and Ianto is really good here, one of the few episodes where he doesent just irritate me (all the male characters in this show(apart from Rhys, and I'm quite fond of Owen) seem to irritate me, dunno why)

There will be a lot of this as I love Cyberwoman which I know makes me a little different. This is the review I did on the last rewatch. I do have one niggle.

Now I love Cyberwoman. I remember watching it the first time and loving it.

The opening scene sets the episode up and we see Ianto separate from the rest – obviously setting up his deceit and keeping himself away from others. This is the episode that has launched thousands of fanfics and the ‘were they at it or not’ question. About this I change my mind constantly. Anyway, Gwen seems to have settled into the team –even Myfanwy is involved in the basketball. I think the most cutting part of this is the way Jack almost dismisses Ianto’s presence as he throws him the ball, without a word, without even a look and the others walk out. We know why Ianto wants them gone and is it a regular occurrence for him to be left minding the shop – I expect so.

So then the great reveal – Ianto’s secret – Lisa the Cyberwoman in the basement. For now Ianto and Lisa are tragic victims of Canary Wharf. We are unaware of this at the time and have no idea why Ianto should be keeping a half made Cyberwoman in the basement. But we know he cares for her from the tender kiss. We wonder how he did this getting her there – plot hole I’ve seen explained in many ways and I think Ianto is the sort of man who could work out how. We are fooled into thinking he is the quiet man of the team in the first three episodes, except for the great one liners. But as always it’s the quiet ones you have to watch which is true of Ianto and Tosh in TW.

Not keen on the way the Japanese scientist looks at our Cyberwoman or indeed on the outfit that she wears for her part conversion – it is a bit too sexualised for me in it’s design and that’s not the point – why would a half conversion look like this?

I can understand Ianto’s overwhelming love for her and his belief and hope that she can be cured. She can talk to him and she can manipulate him as well. She advised how to keep her alive. She uses some emotional blackmail and emphasises their bond. Her crying makes her human to Ianto and that’s what he wants to have her back to love him again.

Elsewhere team bonding is interrupted and so are they. We are given the hopeful situation that perhaps she can be cured.

Again when they return the team don’t acknowledge Ianto’s presence until Jack asks for coffee magic.

We see Lisa is more Cyberman than woman as she tries to convert Tanazaki and the Hub goes on the blink and Ianto’s real tragedy begins as he begins to realise that Lisa is not human after all – he tries to rationalise her behaviour. He still doesn’t realise she is a threat and she has her own agenda – her tone is threatening even to him and we as the audience begin to see that Ianto has been fooled.

Ianto is used to dealing with bodies and TW cover things up often enough but now he is responsible and still naïve enough to think he can cope.

The hint of something and the beautiful Welsh vowels and the team realise that there is an invader. They assume Ianto is in danger – well at least they realise he’s there!

Eventually, Ianto’s secrets are revealed. The tension of the reveal to the team is built up until Gwen and Owen go in and find the Cyber unit. Owen immediately knows what it is as he’ll have been into Canary Wharf. Gwen doesn’t know what she’s dealing with and oh dear will she be converted?

So the great tussle begins as Ianto tries to save Lisa and eventually comes to realise that he can’t. Jack’s reaction to Ianto’s betrayal is the fascinating part in this for me. Suddenly, the gun is pointed at Ianto’s head. Now this scene is interesting as Jack finds out the truth. Ianto is a mixture of defiance and fear as he kneels. The remarks about cleaning up their s**t fits in with the view in the first scene of the man at the back of the team. And the heart breaking ‘when did you last ask me anything about my life?’ He’s been there a while and yet this is how he sees himself. Now for me this scene is one for the ‘no there was nothing really going on besides some mild flirtation’ because I think if there was Ianto would have thrown it at Jack then. More than cleaning up their s**t and more of accommodating Jack’s desires; more than that I can’t really say here. We know that Jack takes this betrayal personally by how he reacts to Ianto so I’ve always seen this as Jack feeling more confused than Ianto. He has to face the fact that one of his team has kept such a massive thing secret from him for well over a year and he doesn’t deal with it well.

Jack tries to bring Ianto to reality – he does offer Ianto a lifeline of fighting together but Ianto still loves her. Again heart breaking – ‘can you understand that Jack? Haven’t you ever loved anyone?’ (Back to the other school of thought – I know you really didn’t care for me and I was only doing it for her.)

Ianto is desperately clinging to the idea of her as Lisa and our Cyberwoman looking at herself and seeing herself as wrong. Now perhaps Ianto begins to understand and I want to hug him. So was Ianto meant to die here then originally?

Jack knows he can hold her by dying which only Gwen knows then. Tosh escapes and Owen and Gwen have to hide – together! We get the parallel kiss. Jack reviving Ianto – now is he breathing life into him or giving him the kiss of life or just having a quick snog and fondle – lots of snog in there for me as Ianto revives but also perhaps some of Jack’s life force. I tend to think that and then think why didn’t you kiss him before he died on Day 4? Oh well! Gwen and Owen kissing has a sort of inevitable feel about it and it’s what you do when you think your going to die.

The one of the moments Rhys is in the programme for – normality while his girlfriend is snogging another man and about to be killed by an alien. Everyday life in Cardiff! Would Rhys really watch Wife Swap?

Ah the BBQ sauce moment – Ianto still trying to save her – then Pteranadon v Cyberwoman – not nice for Ianto to see that and Myfanwy looks as if she is winning.

Love Ianto socking Jack and the ‘one day I’ll watch you suffer and die’ – of course he doesn’t know that Jack can’t die, so there’s a great deal of irony in this scene.

Ianto rushes to get back in but not before our poor unfortunate pizza delivery girl and we find Lisa is still alive. Would Jack have carried out his threat to shoot Ianto – not a chance in my opinion but more later? Asking Ianto to deal with Lisa is rather silly but it’s Jack testing where Ianto’s loyalty lies and he has no real answer to Ianto calling his bluff and then Ianto’s damning –‘you like to think you’re a hero but you’re the biggest monster of all.’ Wow, powerful stuff and he doesn’t even know half of what Jack’s done or that he can’t die or does he know more than he’s saying? Still, he picks up the gun and goes in as the team question Jack, except for Owen. Now is the real moment when Ianto understands that Lisa can’t be saved – that she is a monster when he sees what she’s done and the music works well here rather than hearing him scream at thinking she’s dead and then finding out what she has done. She still manipulates him and makes him believe until he pulls the catch and we wonder will he shoot after all but he can’t. Her true nature revealed the others shoot her – only Gwen doesn’t face him.

The final scene gets me every time. We’ve no idea of the timescale. Was Ianto punished? Suggestions were that he was sent home for a month – again a thousand fanfics on this one. Why didn’t Jack kill him? Why didn’t Jack retcon him? Ianto gets away lightly with putting the world in danger and getting two innocent people killed, in my opinion. It depends if you see Ianto as a victim or not. If you are kind you see him as a victim of delusion who did it all for love and didn’t understand. Was there any argument over whether he should be punished? How do the team feel about him returning? I think this scene can’t be so much later because Jack’s face is marked. Ianto is back to his old self, immaculate in his suit. Again his face when he looks at Jack and I want to hug him; Jack with closed off body language just nods and what does Ianto do? He goes back to cleaning up after them – resuming his position in the team.

Lastly there’s Gwen again as the human face, and more of her and her growing fascination with Jack and how Jack feels about death and not being able to die. You can see his hunger for it in some ways here as the shot pans away and Ianto is still picking up the rubbish.

I still love it and I’m not sorry to say that. I love that GDL as Ianto was given a chance although he his a little OTT at times. I love that he had such a massive secret. I find it fascinating to see the interaction between him and Jack – although there’s a lot of hindsight in that. Now, how he moves from this to being Jack’s lover is a whole different kettle of fish if he wasn’t that already. Then it’s back to work and the fairies – now unlike some people I didn’t like this one when I first watched it!

Snip...
As for Ianto possibly having an episode to redeem himself, yes, it maybe would have been nice but as with Doctor Who sometimes, you just have to move on and maybe there wasn't enough space in the following episode to tie that storyline in. Sometimes it's just best to move onto a new episode. People have complained that RTD was too Soap-like in his time as Doctor Who runner, here he proves it isn't always the case. Seems the guy can't win whatever decision he takes.
Snip

I think this comes to the knub of what I think is wrong with most of series 1 of Torchwood. The first series was rather juvenile and the only thing that made it remotely adult was the added sex and violence.

Characters are clumsily handled - they do things necessary for the plot rather than what you'd think they'd do. Ianto's a case in point. First he's so straight that he has a girlfriend that he betrays Torchwood for. First Jack's really angry that he personally has been betrayed and then Ianto's on the team and then Jack's lover. Gwen bounces round from Rhys to Jack. Owen's just irritating and all Toshiko does is love Owen from a distance.

They're all a bit old to be so.... well.... teenage. They're more like characters from Grange Hill than an adult SF programme.

Good writing always needs good believable characters at its heart. Torchwood series 1 for me is a long way from that.

I think this comes to the knub of what I think is wrong with most of series 1 of Torchwood. The first series was rather juvenile and the only thing that made it remotely adult was the added sex and violence.

Characters are clumsily handled - they do things necessary for the plot rather than what you'd think they'd do. Ianto's a case in point. First he's so straight that he has a girlfriend that he betrays Torchwood for. First Jack's really angry that he personally has been betrayed and then Ianto's on the team and then Jack's lover. Gwen bounces round from Rhys to Jack. Owen's just irritating and all Toshiko does is love Owen from a distance.

They're all a bit old to be so.... well.... teenage. They're more like characters from Grange Hill than an adult SF programme.

Good writing always needs good believable characters at its heart. Torchwood series 1 for me is a long way from that.

All fair points but I do still prefer this Series to Series 2 as it has a greater variety of storylines to balance out your viewpoints. I find it fascinating slowing finding out about Jack, how he came to be where he is and the relevance of that hand. And each characters I think is developed nicely from beginning to end and each even has their own episode. I would rather watch this Series than Miracle Day anytime because of it doesn't suffer from an overlong stretched out plotline over ten weeks, it goes from week to week. It's probably the series where it was the more closely linked to Doctor who, despite Martha being in Series 2.

This central section of Series 1 is probably not the best set of episodes for me. The best episodes were at the beginning and later in the run. Small Worlds again contrasts it's previous episode completely with fantasy overtaking gory violence.

I'm not too keen on the main plot but what I do find fascinating, as I said in the last post, is this is the point where we start to learn about Jack and get some clues as to what has happened to him since POTW in Doctor Who. It's clear he's been around a while but why he has hung around for so long is at this point unclear. I also like the storyline with Estelle where Gwen susses out there is more to Jack's 'Father' than meets the eye.

It's mainly a Gwen and Jack show with the others barely getting a look-in. I like how Gwen's home life is threatened by her work and that was well portrayed onscreen. As for Jack, it's almost a forerunner of what he does in COE, having to sacrifice a child to save the world from more harm.

I like how the 'fairies' are really an ideal protector for what most children have to face from bullying at school to paedophiles and each one is dealt with in a way most kids would probably love them to be dealt with. Aside from that, though, I find the episode a bit lacking in pace but still watchable.

I think this comes to the knub of what I think is wrong with most of series 1 of Torchwood. The first series was rather juvenile and the only thing that made it remotely adult was the added sex and violence.

Characters are clumsily handled - they do things necessary for the plot rather than what you'd think they'd do. Ianto's a case in point. First he's so straight that he has a girlfriend that he betrays Torchwood for. First Jack's really angry that he personally has been betrayed and then Ianto's on the team and then Jack's lover. Gwen bounces round from Rhys to Jack. Owen's just irritating and all Toshiko does is love Owen from a distance.

They're all a bit old to be so.... well.... teenage. They're more like characters from Grange Hill than an adult SF programme.

Good writing always needs good believable characters at its heart. Torchwood series 1 for me is a long way from that.

That's basically what put me off Torchwood, the characters were meant to be grown up but they acted liked unstable teenagers, and the 'grown up' aspects of the show were reduced to just them shagging around and some graphic violence.

All fair points but I do still prefer this Series to Series 2 as it has a greater variety of storylines to balance out your viewpoints. I find it fascinating slowing finding out about Jack, how he came to be where he is and the relevance of that hand. And each characters I think is developed nicely from beginning to end and each even has their own episode. I would rather watch this Series than Miracle Day anytime because of it doesn't suffer from an overlong stretched out plotline over ten weeks, it goes from week to week. It's probably the series where it was the more closely linked to Doctor who, despite Martha being in Series 2.

I do think Torchwood gets better after series 1 and I agree that Miracle Day would have been better if structured like Children of Earth. Basically 5 eps instead of 10.

Now I wasn’t over keen on this episode when I first watched it but it’s grown on me, largely I have to admit because I think it’s important in the growing relationship between Jack and Ianto. (This is mostly behind the scenes stuff that my imagination puts there I will admit.)

So we begin with Estelle and fairies in the garden – being TW we know it’s not that simple but we don’t yet know about who Estelle really is and why she’s important. (This is proved by the very unfairy like creature we see – so we’re let into the secret early on.)

Meanwhile back in his ‘hole’ we have bare-chested and dreaming Jack. Jack’s accommodation is interesting. Why does he choose to live this way – small bunk – not good for sharing that you can see right into? We know he doesn’t sleep much. Anyway – the dream and its significance. Dead soldiers with petals coming out of their mouths – a red petal on the desk – Jack knows what it means but why is it there? And then a Ianto moment. How long is it since Cyberwoman? Ianto looks nervous and uneasy still. Do the others know where Jack sleeps? They don’t seem to. One of my favourite moments - the simple hand on the shoulder – the simple acceptance and Ianto breathes out. Funny weather patterns!

So a school and who is she, our Jasmine? And a predator just on the off chance but our Jasmine isn’t stupid and she has protection which she seems to be aware of judging by the smile.

Jack and Gwen go to a lecture on fairies and we find out who Estelle is to Jack. I think she knows he’s not the son of the man she loved – well that’s my view of it. Gwen is sceptical but Jack knows that fairies aren’t all they seem. I do love how he looks at Estelle which isn’t lost on Gwen – the human face of TW.

Then our bad man gets his come-uppance in Cardiff market. This is like going back in time for me. I used to love the market, except for the other end because it was the fish stall and I hated the smell. It sold all sorts and probably still does. I got to go upstairs rarely as that’s where they sold the pets. Watching this makes me feel nostalgic and I see it from a child’s viewpoint. I didn’t go there much as an adult. Anyway, back to the story and out come the petals – yucky way to die eventually.

I love that cat – reminds me of my first one. And the picture of Jack reveals all. Does Gwen believe - why lie to her as she knows he can’t die? But she doesn’t know how long he’s been about. The relationship between Jack and Estelle is really touching.

Jack really lays on how dangerous they are but Jasmine plays with them.

The famous fairy pictures and Gwen turns out to be an expert while Ianto blames magic mushrooms as he serves the drinks – love Jack’s comment about private life – nice that they can joke!

If you go down to the woods today you’re sure of a big surprise! And a cell is no protection either! Same old police station now seen in Being Human! Something strange so call TW and Jack knows what those petals mean. I always wonder why the fairies pick on Estelle when she supports them. We find out about the Chosen Ones. Of course, I’d worry about the cat too. I don’t understand why they’d do that to her except that they are evil and they can. Are they trying to tell Jack to stay out of their way? Jack gets there too late. You have to remember that he’s loved this woman and Gwen guesses. The problem of being immortal – you have to watch everyone die and Jack never drinks so we know how upset he is. We get the closeness developing between Jack and Gwen as she learns more about him than the others know. Why would Jack be in Lahore on a troop train as leader in 1909? I’ve always wondered as its pre war and he would be working for TW then so what was he doing in India?

The fairies visit Gwen as well and the parents worry that their daughter is strange – which she is but don’t pick on her. It’s interesting watching Jack looking at every day normal life at Gwen’s flat. They find out that Jasmine is the Chosen One. She finds she can’t get out – silly man. Nasty looking things these fairies and lethal. This is where Jack has to make one of those decisions as she wants to go; she knows the consequences. Jack understands that this sacrifice is necessary to save the world. We now link it to Steven. The others simply don’t understand but again in this episode we get to understand Jack’s problems – immortality and leadership. This is also one of those occasions when we writers let Ianto be the one who understands what Jack has to do because he did it with Lisa and Ianto wasn’t there, so he can stand back a bit.

Yeah, I enjoyed it more. I don’t like the creatures or the nasty deaths but they are effective. I like the things that tell us about the nature of Jack’s existence; the problems of living forever and watching those you love die and the issues surrounding leadership and having to make choices that others can’t or won’t make. We are let into Jack’s lonely life as evidenced by him lying alone in his bed earlier on with the suggestion that Ianto being there too may offer something different, well at least in my view.

I know this episode has a bit of a marmite reputation and people love it or hate but for me it was my least favourite Episode of Series 1.

I did like the fact the crew got away from Cardiff for one episode and bonded very nicely with some good jokes etc. It all looks very nice in the country, but for me Torchwood is about Sci-Fi and Special Effects which hardly featured in this story, and coincidentally is one of the major failings of Miracle Day.

Instead, what we got was something similar to those films set in backwards America where everybody is a cannibal and a bit weird, like The Hills Have Eyes for example. I also think it's a bit gross in places and though it contains some neat dramatic tension in places, I just don't like this episode at all.

Countrycide (haha, I love that) is one of my favourite episodes!
It's utterly bonkers, much like the rest of the first series (fairies! giant life eating monsters! sex gas alien!).
It's just ridiculous in some places, and I love that. Like Jack saving the day by smashing down a wall in a tractor and blasting the cannibals with a shotgun. What?! No clever technobabble, no sudden turn around in morals. Just tractor attack.
It's awful in some places, Gwen and Owen have that scene... Not the finest moment for Torchwood, certainly.
It's Torchwood

I liked this one. It was an original twist on the classic horror movie genre of "something wierd and horrible goin' on in this out-of-the-way village". A bit Deliverance meets Texas Chainsaw Massacre set in a Welsh valley. Gory at times, but suspenseful and it was nice to see the team bonding.

This episode has long been my favourite of Torchwood. It's sort of hard at times to describe what's so likeable about it, but I do know part of it is down the fact it was very Buffy-esque in nature, drawing quite a bit on the Earshot episode of that Series where Buffy experiences something very similar to Tosh here, where she can hear everyone else's thoughts and even hears someone threatening to commit mass murder.

I also thought with a few tweaks that it could have been a Doctor Who episode as well, it's the sort of episode that could have been done for the New Series.

What I also like is that this shows a very different side to Tosh. People have described this Series as Childish, I massively disagree with that description and Tosh as she usually is upto this point had been the more serious characterisation in the group. So it was good that she had this episode to show a different side to her, with even Gwen mentioning at the end that love suited her. I really enjoyed the way she listens in on the thoughts of her colleagues but fails to get anything out of Jack. Also loved the banter between Gwen and Owen as their affair continues and then the secret thoughts they have towards each other.

I also liked the relationship between Tosh and Mary. Daniela Denby-Ashe is absolutely gorgeous in this(aside from the smoking) and I liked the understated nature of her villainy where it's clear she's using Tosh via the pendant but we're not quite sure why. At times I find Tosh's struggles via using the pendant quite emotive and it fits in wonderfully with the slower pace of the episode.

Overall the Sci-Fi concept, the small use of CGI and the lack of serious gore is another reason why I love this episode so much. It's amazing even in Doctor Who how the worst episode of the Series can be followed by the best imo, and it's still happens even in Torchwood!

There are other episodes in this Series and Series 2 which I enjoy as much as this one but there's just the combination of the above elements which make it stand out for me.

One of the things that disappointed me about Torchwood is that there were no reoccurring villains in the series. Doctor Who has Daleks, Cybermen, the Master and much more, and the Sarah Jane Adventures had the Trickster, who would have appeared in the fifth series finale. The closest Torchwood had were the Weevils, who were treated more like pests than anything. I thought Captain John would have been a fun reoccurring villain until I saw he was under Gray's thumb the whole time, and I found Gray rather boring and unremarkable.

Despite what people think about Miracle Day, I rather liked the way it ended, implying that the Family would return again one day. If we do see them again, I'd want to see a representative for them who would be featured more than then other members, someone we could associate the Family with, someone who would make us go "Oh shit!" when we saw them.

Countrycide - Ianto's first trip out and we find out that the bad guys aren't always aliens

So out on a wild and windy moor – is it a monster? Love the choice of music.Torchwood get to play out in the Brecons. Owen brilliant and one of my favourite lines – ‘sorry did you say camp!’ Please see use of this line in one of my favourite YT vids right at the end.

Gwen plays who is the last snog. Poor Tosh – but then she gets more action than Jack or Ianto in the end. Owen mixing it up with mentioning Gwen – poor Tosh and then Jack can see this is going wrong so lightens the mood with a non human life forms joke. Ianto and that look from Jack. Do we assume Jack is thinking of the kiss in the HUB or mentioning Lisa – hard to tell but it’s a pissy look? Perhaps there have been more kisses between them – who knows. But Ianto steals the scene and we're reminded its not so long since Lisa.

So we see the beginning of Gwen and Owen and our adult themes. I really am not fond of Owen through all this. The body with flesh and skin removed is a nasty shock – but meant to shock and I hate maggots – really hate maggots.

There’s the SUV gone – careless of them but allows the fabulous walking scenes. This is Ianto’s first field experience as far as we know and they’re walking into a trap. I must go up to the Brecons again.

Tosh goes with Ianto – these two develop a friendship which I love as they both need someone in their lives.

Spooky darkness and more flies – did I mention I hate flies and maggots and we’ve found our victim, even our medic is shocked. There’s a lot of running about and pointing of guns. I always imagine them laughing themselves silly with all the posturing. Gwen begins to doubt the sense of being in this job – can’t blame her really.

Back to Tosh and Ianto bonding – he looks so young in this one and then he’s on his own and you can see the panic. One wonders if Jack gave him his gun training!

Gwen gets shot and we meet our survivor and wonder if she’ll survive knowing I think she will but it’s yet another shock and there’s more bonding over a bullet or two between her and Owen.

Back to Tosh and Ianto – who never liked camping. Tosh takes the leading role as she is more experienced. God I love his accent in this – sorry. And then the reveal – that fridge and Tosh trying to protect him – his face and the realisation of what they are being kept for is truly scary! I love the questioning of how they do it and that look they get on their faces as if its what they live for.

Lots more gun pointing and they’re in the dark not knowing what they are facing – we don’t either at this stage. Is it aliens or what? Then we find out the awful truth that there aren't any aliens - the monsters are human and that makes them more scary. So there’s a harvest every 10 years. She seems reluctant at first but we know she really isn’t..

The interrogation is interesting as we see Jack revert to what he once was and what he’s capable of. I wonder if he would have done this if he’d been with the others, especially Gwen.

The true extent of the horror is revealed to Tosh and Owen that the killers are human. Owen Teale is gruesome – tenderising the meat makes me shiver! Ianto’s moment the smile and head butt allowing Tosh to escape but not for long. It seems like rescue but …… oh dear perhaps not. So now all except Jack are caught. Poor Ianto has been tenderised and is about to meet his fate when in comes our hero with a shot gun and he’s bloody fantastic – a true leader. Gwen again has to know why they’ve done this – our human face again. Evan really does have bad teeth!

After the clear up Gwen realises that life is now different – more complicated and you can only share them with the team. When we see the flesh appear I for one thought please not Jack. I didn’t care if it was Owen. I like to think Jack was off looking after Ianto.

It’s a really dark and nasty episode and all the better for it. I do like it but something about it niggles a bit and I don’t know what. Perhaps it’s the Owen and Gwen thing – don’t know or perhaps it seems to be a bit of a sudden ending.

I like Tosh as a character and since writing have really tried to understand where she was coming from after being in the UNIT cell. I think this was something that could have been touched on more but perhaps the writers hadn’t decided her background. I will admit that I hate to think of Tosh in this having her fling with Mary because she’s just desperate for some love. Anyway on to the episode.

Mary is a professional but one with standards and means, judging by the dress. She finds the proverbial alien spacecraft in the woods.

So 180 years later TW are called to investigate a body and there’s Mary looking on at what they find.

It’s time to want to smack Owen and Gwen, rubbing her nose in their relationship and making fun of her work. I think Owen needed a slap or a stick in his choice of orifice!

Tosh goes to pubs by herself and meets a blonde who knows her name and history – that’s intriguing. But Mary doesn’t mention UNIT cell – so there is a cover story. Tosh finds a soul mate to discuss alien tech with – someone who listens and smiles and gives presents. So Tosh can hear everyone’s thoughts and Mary begins her seduction of Tosh. From Tosh’s point of view it really is too much of an opportunity. I think I’d hate it – hearing all those thoughts.

Again, I’m beginning to see why I really didn’t like Owen and how he sees women, with his comments about Tosh and then the stuff about his and Gwen’s little affair. I want to shout you have Rhys why are you dallying with him – he’s not even handsome and Rhys is just lovely.

Oh now the Ianto thoughts moment and his sadness, matching Tosh’s. ‘Pain so constant like my stomach’s full of rats.’ It’s an amazing description really but does it mean that he feels like something is gnawing away at his insides? It’s not so long after Lisa and he’ll still be feeling the effects of his trip to the country. ‘There isn’t an inch of me that doesn’t hurt.’ Is this a physical fact or more metaphorical? Suddenly Ianto begins to be a character not just background noise. He has thoughts and feelings and he hurts – really sad. For me this is the beginning of a friendship between them as she understands what he is going through.

Mary pulls her in on a rope. Tosh is hurting in reaction to what she’s discovered about Gwen and Owen. She must feel so betrayed, especially by Gwen – but does Gwen know how Tosh feels about Owen – I doubt it. I don’t want to Gwen bash but its hard not to at this stage.

It really is a great seduction technique to show someone how much they would enjoy something. I think the actress does a great job in this and she has a great voice. Poor Tosh; it’s the morning after the night before – goes away to look up Philoctetes. I assume the name is something to do with that person of Greek myth being abandoned as our alien is. I can’t remember if this is mentioned later. Once more Tosh is tempted again and becomes the hero of the hour.

Seems that Owen was wrong and our victim is a man who has a strange injury. Mary starts digging about the body and Tosh wants to help and seem useful and clever. Then there’s the artefact and she finds out that she can’t read Jack’s mind. Can he feel her digging?

Now we find out who Mary really is and Tosh has not only been sleeping with a woman but also an alien – oh dear. She’s actually trusting Tosh a lot here and in many ways she’s right about humanity – we do invade. Humans have destroyed cultures and lifestyles even species – look what happened with the original people on Tasmania – hunted and killed for sport. Why would she trust us to treat her properly? But she has been a busy alien taking bodies over the years. Yes she is a murderer, but I feel a bit sympathetic, except she is using Tosh or is she?

They go to the HUB and Jack knows that Tosh has been behaving strangely. He has the artefact and he knows the truth about Mary. She is brilliant here. There’s no guilt and no regret; I like that in an alien and as she describes the human body I love Ianto raising that one eyebrow – to become a trade mark along with the eye rolls.

Finally, Jack allows her in. Again it’s an Owen smacking moment as he thinks about Gwen. Would Mary really harm Tosh? Has she been using her all the long? I’m not sure.

Comparing teeth – great line and Mary is transported and Jack has killed her. I’m not sure that was entirely fair. Would Jack expect to be killed for all that he has done and we know he has murdered and tortured in his life? Is she any different to him? I wonder now what gives him the right to judge. Was Mary killing to survive or for fun? We don’t know why she was a prisoner in the first place.

Interesting that Tosh is in talking to Ianto while the other two worry that she knows about them. Ianto is really the only one she could talk to and he knows what it’s like to have Jack kill someone that you ‘love’. At least Gwen does try to make amends in some ways – more than Owen does.

Finally, our talk to Jack and the pendant is destroyed. We see the paternalistic side of Jack and his relationship with Tosh. He was her rescuer after all so is that why she can forgive him so easily or does she simply feel that she was fooled and pathetic to fall for Mary?

I really enjoyed that episode and I still have some sympathy with Mary – an alien’s got to do what an alien has to do, all alone and abandoned on a strange planet and Torchwood don’t exactly play by the rules either. It’s an interesting philosophical and moral issue.

This is another excellent episode from the First Series, connecting everything back to the first episode with the glove and the retcon, etc.

I really liked how manipulative Suzie was in this. At first it seems as though this is a straight forward case of a psycho connected to Suzi who has gone on the rampage but as the episode progresses it can be seen Suzie had set it up all along in case of her death. I think Suzie was an excellent character who maybe deserved to be the sort of recurring villain a poster mentioned above. The sort of outcast turned bad sort of villain and it's a shame we never saw her again.

Referring back again to the comments made about this Series being childish, there's certainly no sign of it in this episode. The very nature of the threat that Suzie poses puts everyone on edge, in particular Gwen who bears the full force of her malice.

I think the episode is very tense and has good dramatic emphasis, also like the conversation between Gwen and Suzie about what happens after death. Swansong(or should say Jabe from The Forest Of Cheam) is a very typical sarcastic detective, love it when she puts Jack on loudspeaker!

The only quibble I have about this episode is really a production one. As Jack and Owen close in on Suzie, it is dark. Owen mentions they only have minutes to save Gwen, it's seen getting light and quite suddenly it's full on broad daylight. Just think this was not done particularly well and maybe a little more thought should have gone into this as it looks like it's been light for hours rather than early morning sunrise!

I also like the episode title coming from They Keep Killing Steed episode from The Avengers. Not very original but quite apt considering the episode's content.

I don't think you quite understand my criticism of series 1, daveyboy: I don't think series 1 is "childish". Its characterisation's are immature and juvenile - not the same thing as "childish". Most of the stories are adult only in the sense they have violence, gore and sex. For me, this is definitely BBC Three fodder - i.e. aimed at a teenage audience, rather than a truly adult drama.

It's the "soapy" elements, i.e the developing character relationships, that let series 1 down badly for me.

Was Gwen and Owen as a couple really credible? Not for me. It could have been if it had been handled correctly by RTD, but Gwen's behaviour didn't seem justified to me, especially if she's meant to be a character you're supposed to be sympathetic towards.

Was Ianto and Jack credible after Ianto's girlfriend and betrayal of Torchwood? I didn't feel that justified either.

Toshi's relationship with the alien was, by contrast, well setup and explicable.

I don't think you quite understand my criticism of series 1, daveyboy: I don't think series 1 is "childish". Its characterisation's are immature and juvenile - not the same thing as "childish". Most of the stories are adult only in the sense they have violence, gore and sex. For me, this is definitely BBC Three fodder - i.e. aimed at a teenage audience, rather than a truly adult drama.

It's the "soapy" elements, i.e the developing character relationships, that let series 1 down badly for me.

Was Gwen and Owen as a couple really credible? Not for me. It could have been if it had been handled correctly by RTD, but Gwen's behaviour didn't seem justified to me, especially if she's meant to be a character you're supposed to be sympathetic towards.

Was Ianto and Jack credible after Ianto's girlfriend and betrayal of Torchwood? I didn't feel that justified either.

Toshi's relationship with the alien was, by contrast, well setup and explicable.

Now I interpret things differently from you. For me, you have can't just have characters going round being miserable all the time, especially in a job like Torchwood. Clearly the job has quite an impact on everyone's life, including them having very little social life.

So for me, Gwen is one of a number of distractions from his job for Owen, his way of coping and that's the way he is, he shags around. For Gwen, I thought the whole thing with Owen was credible, clearly Suzi had been there before her, so she fell for his charms. I think those episodes where they were together was better for seeing Gwen having an affair.

As for the soapy elements, I mentioned the other day how people were quick to moan when Ianto wasn't given an extra episode to prove himself or get over Lisa. If the show was too soapy, surely that would have rumbled on a few more episodes. So I don't see the Series as being overly soapy either.

Now I interpret things differently from you. For me, you have can't just have characters going round being miserable all the time, especially in a job like Torchwood. Clearly the job has quite an impact on everyone's life, including them having very little social life.

So for me, Gwen is one of a number of distractions from his job for Owen, his way of coping and that's the way he is, he shags around. For Gwen, I thought the whole thing with Owen was credible, clearly Suzi had been there before her, so she fell for his charms. I think those episodes where they were together was better for seeing Gwen having an affair.

As for the soapy elements, I mentioned the other day how people were quick to moan when Ianto wasn't given an extra episode to prove himself or get over Lisa. If the show was too soapy, surely that would have rumbled on a few more episodes. So I don't see the Series as being overly soapy either.

I think I'm not making myself clear.

When I was criticising that the soapy elements it was because they were not handled well - not because I thought they shouldn't be there. All good writing of any genre requires believable characters and relationships and they should react to events in a way that's consistent (or at least plausible) with their characters. Torchwood season 1 I would say lacks at least one of those necessary elements of good writing most of the time.

And in the example, it's not Owen's behaviour that's implausible (in fact it's very credible at that stage given what we'd been shown of his character to that point). It's Gwen's behaviour that I find to be out of character.