I hooked up another hard drive, and this time I got to Desktop. I inserted a USB thumb drive, nothing happened, so I guess I must get HAL or VL-Hot.

I installed xine-ui and xine-lib with Gslapt, but xine does not appear in Multimedia menu. What must I do to get xine in the Multimedia section?

Same for VLC. Also, VLC has a misplaced volume adjust feature. The speaker icon + volume adjust are superimposed over a button, just under "Navigation".

I tried abiword from terminal, it seems that libgucharmap.so.6 is missing. That lib is not available from Gslapt with testing and patches enabled. EDIT: Abiword working now, following advice of nightflier.

I cannot use the login dialog (xdm?) to change from JWM to Fluxbox. Some problems with the cursor (stuck), once cursor is in password field.

Having trouble with VL Forum session verification. Must log out and log in each time I bring Opera browser to this site.

In VL 5.9 Std, there is a Run dialog from V-menu. When an app is started from this Run dialog, there is only an instance of the desired app. However, when the app is started from terminal, the terminal must be present for the app to continue. So if there were a Run dialog from Start in JWM, then an instance of terminal wouldn't be required in addition to the app.

I dont know if the devs have spent more time in JWM, and just not had the time to configure and flesh out Fluxbox, but as things are now, it appears that JWM is more configurable and customizable. For example, I don't see VL's custom config tools in Fluxbox. (Is Fluxbox going to be more difficult to brand as VL?) As long as we are making a minimalistic version, I suggest we just focus on a single WM, and that should probably be JWM. It seems like a lotta redundant effort to be setting up two WMs which do about the same thing. If I was gonna choose a second WM, it would probably be IceWM, not Fluxbox.

Our time is limited, so I say we focus on a single WM, yet there is still plenty to do, getting things to work right.

Menu: It is about the same effort to customize in either wm. I would not mind doing both as soon as the list of included apps is finalized.

From what I can tell, only Fluxbox comes with a script that automatically searches your system for apps and creates a menu. It would make it easier for users to update after adding programs. On the negative side, the script adds stuff you may not want and also wipes out most customizations. I will do some more research on it.

a gentle reminder: We are designing this version to be as small as possible. Just because there is plenty of room left on an install CD doesn't mean we can waste space on a second WM. If we want to compare two competing WMs for the best possible solution, that is one thing, but to have two WMs in the final version is unnecessary, and counter to our objectives, ie. to minimize the download for users with limited internet access, to minimize hdd space required for installation.

Size-wise, JWM is hands down the winner. The package is less than 100 K, and only a couple hundred installed. It will be included in any case. In comparison, the Fluxbox package is between 7 and 8 MB, and around 10 MB installed.

Currently, what is installed size of VL-Lite? I see 205 MB with a couple of my favorite apps installed. So 10MB for Fluxbox represents 5% total, that's not so bad. But why do we confuse user with more choices? I think I prefer JWM from a usability standpoint, that is, it seems more conventional and easier to use. Furthermore, I think JWM and Fluxbox do about the same thing, hence, my criticism that two WMs would be redundant.