It's not just you...but you and your brethren are not only one of the smallest minorities in Canon's set of customers, you're also generally willing to make do with the offerings they have. Either you'll decide you're okay with APS-C and go with mirrorless for its pocketability, or you'll decide you can live with the bulk of a 5DIII.

The target audience for mirrorless (again, think of soccer moms) won't put up with the extra expense for full frame, and the target audience for full frame (wedding pros and the like) couldn't give a damn about camera size and will laugh at you if you suggest they can do without the viewfinder.

As far as what to expect, it really boils down to who the mirrorless is marketed towards. If they target the Rebel buying populous (and that's where the profit is to be made), it would indeed be silly to put a FF sensor in it.

You've got it.

And, yes -- the soccer mom on the sidelines with a Rebel and a 75-300 has no clue what dynamic range is or why she'd care about not having it. Indeed, she'd just think you were a sleazy salesman trying to upsell her with something she doesn't really need, like that $100 tripod the last one foisted off on her that she hasn't even used once.

Besides, auto-adjust makes those dark areas look brighter, and it only takes one click in Picassa.

It's not just you...but you and your brethren are not only one of the smallest minorities in Canon's set of customers, you're also generally willing to make do with the offerings they have. Either you'll decide you're okay with APS-C and go with mirrorless for its pocketability, or you'll decide you can live with the bulk of a 5DIII.

Yes, I'll be just another unsatisfied customer, who would buy a FF mirrorless camera from whatever manufacturer that actually make such a camera, and then sell my Canon toys the next day .

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The target audience for mirrorless (again, think of soccer moms) won't put up with the extra expense for full frame, and the target audience for full frame (wedding pros and the like) couldn't give a damn about camera size and will laugh at you if you suggest they can do without the viewfinder.

I feel your pain, but Canon doesn't....

b&

Who decided that there has to be only one Canon mirrorless? Why not 2 or 3 ... and one of those could be FF

briansquibb

I believe you . However, when I don't need high image quality, I don't even need a big sensor camera for that shot, P&S or a smartphone would do. When I look at all the 5D2 features, I realize that I don't really need a DSLR. What I need is FF mirrorless. If only Leica M9 had LiveView, EVF and was like 4 times cheaper ...For example, I never (or like once a year) use P, Av, Tv, B, CA or AUTO. All I want is C1,C2 and M mode + autoISO, autoSS, autoF settings in it. So, it is possible to integrate the whole mode dial into the ON/OFF switch and add a 3rd dial + some buttons instead. Simple is perfect. Or maybe that's just me...

I believe you . However, when I don't need high image quality, I don't even need a big sensor camera for that shot, P&S or a smartphone would do. When I look at all the 5D2 features, I realize that I don't really need a DSLR. What I need is FF mirrorless. If only Leica M9 had LiveView, EVF and was like 4 times cheaper ...For example, I never (or like once a year) use P, Av, Tv, B, CA or AUTO. All I want is C1,C2 and M mode + autoISO, autoSS, autoF settings in it. So, it is possible to integrate the whole mode dial into the ON/OFF switch and add a 3rd dial + some buttons instead. Simple is perfect. Or maybe that's just me...

So you want a low IQ P&S with 1 series controls?

Actually, I think most people want the same thing I do: a pocketable integrated-lens design with a full-sized 645-format hundred-megapickle sensor and a TS-E 12-1200 f/0.95 IS AF that does 30 FPS with a million-shot RAW buffer, and it should cost $49.95 before rebates.

The only real debate here is over which compromises people would be happiest with, and we're seeing that the things people here care most about are the things that Canon's PowerShot and Rebel customers care least about, and vice-versa.

So it's no wonder that the mirrorless camera will be a huge disappointment to the peanut gallery while simultaneously becoming Canon's best-selling, most profitable line of cameras.

I believe you . However, when I don't need high image quality, I don't even need a big sensor camera for that shot, P&S or a smartphone would do. When I look at all the 5D2 features, I realize that I don't really need a DSLR. What I need is FF mirrorless. If only Leica M9 had LiveView, EVF and was like 4 times cheaper ...For example, I never (or like once a year) use P, Av, Tv, B, CA or AUTO. All I want is C1,C2 and M mode + autoISO, autoSS, autoF settings in it. So, it is possible to integrate the whole mode dial into the ON/OFF switch and add a 3rd dial + some buttons instead. Simple is perfect. Or maybe that's just me...

So you want a low IQ P&S with 1 series controls?

Actually, I think most people want the same thing I do: a pocketable integrated-lens design with a full-sized 645-format hundred-megapickle sensor and a TS-E 12-1200 f/0.95 IS AF that does 30 FPS with a million-shot RAW buffer, and it should cost $49.95 before rebates.

The only real debate here is over which compromises people would be happiest with, and we're seeing that the things people here care most about are the things that Canon's PowerShot and Rebel customers care least about, and vice-versa.

So it's no wonder that the mirrorless camera will be a huge disappointment to the peanut gallery while simultaneously becoming Canon's best-selling, most profitable line of cameras.

Cheers,

b&

You are overreacting . Most P&S users do not care about what brand cameras they use ... and they don't post about it online.

BTW there will be no future P&S cameras, they will be replaced by smart phones

Maybe someday, when they get the basics, like a shutter release button, a zoom lens, and a tripod mount.

I think you're wrong. Most people don't care about the first two things, and the thought of buying a tripod would never even occur to them. I think fewer and fewer people are going to replace their P&S cameras. Isn't that why camera companies are making these larger sensor systems in the first place? To differentiate them from phone cams in a way that is not possible with P&Ss?

I know I'm not. I'm not talking about the masses that don't give a damn about photography or their photos - they already use useless cell phones for pictures and videos. I'm talking about cameras for enthusiasts and above.

But that's just the thing. The only "camera enthusiasts and above" who buy Rebels and G-series PowerShot models are starving students and spendthrifts, and they're such a small part of the market that Canon doesn't care much about them.

??

I have $15k in camera gear, and I have an Elph 500HS in my pocket (wonderful camera for it's size, by the way - 24-105 equivalent, f/2 at the wide end, and usable up to ISO 1600), a D20 for use in the water, and an SX260HS for my wife. I think most people like me that also want a pocket camera to have with them at all times won't put up with a near-useless cell phone camera.

I have $15k in camera gear, and I have an Elph 500HS in my pocket ... I think most people like me that also want a pocket camera to have with them at all times won't put up with a near-useless cell phone camera.

Seems like you are a Photo Enthusiast, and not the target audience for camera phones. Just don't be under the illusion that Low Cost P&S cameras will be made forever. Once the market shrinks to a size that is unprofitable, these Low Cost P&S cameras will join the Dodo and Passenger Pigeon on the extinct list Those P&S cameras that survive will be like the $649.95 Sony Cyber-shot RX100.