I thought it was interesting because as soon as I think of werewolves, I immediately assume they shift under a full moon. I love how SM brought "shape-shifters" into the story instead of going with the traditional theories of werewolves/vampires.

I don't understand why she chose to call them shape shifters. I thought it was useless information that was completely irrelevant to the story. The plot would not have needed to be changed if Meyer just kept calling them werewolves. And why aren't they werewolves? They're people who turn into wolves. The werewolves are closer to the traditional view of the mythological creature than the vampires of her books are.

I'm actually an anti. I don't like the Twilight series at all.

I'm here because I enjoy discussing literature and I think it's often much more interesting to talk to people who disagree with you.

I am not sure if this question goes along exactly here, but it seemed like a pretty close place to start...

My husband and I keep having discussions on ideas as to WHY SM put two diff kinds of werewolves in the twilight universe. I mean. her vamps dont adhere to "cannon" for most Vamps, and there aren't "another" type of vamp in the world that really does sleep in coffins and can't stand garlic.. so why have hem be "shapeshifters' and also still have "children of the moon"? when all the "myths" in SM's world for Vamps could also just be "Myths" for her werewolves (full moons, being bitten to change, etc)...

It always seemed to make more sence to me that they simply ARE the werewolves in this universe... possibly even hunted to extinction in the "old world", but surviving genetically in the new (where we would guess Vamps were more recent, since it is basically a virus type reaction to the venom to become a Vamp, so it would have had to spread later here)?

it seems that the develpment of the werewolves as a "protector" of man goes right along with Edwards discussion of predator and prey development of Killer whales and baby seals type thing. Nature balances, and the werewolves are the balance... but why two types?

and yah yah.. i get that they are "shapeshifters", but the same principle goes... I would assume that if they shifted into panthers, their teeth would still rip vamp flesh, so it still seems that she wouldn't need two diff kinds of werewolves...

sorry if this is not the best place to throw this discussion out there!

tinuviel2006 wrote:I really liked that part in the book, when it's all explained about the shape-shifting, but I still wonder - are the Quileute wolfs still natural enemies of vampires? Or is this just a coincidence in some ways?

I think in the Quileute's case, they are still mortal enemies because their whole reason for being is to protect the pack and the people in La Push. So, since most vampires would defy that sanctity, then they would not do well with vampires in general. Plus, their teeth and strength is the only thing, other than another vampire and a true werewolf, that can destroy vampires. So, I think there's more to this world than we imagined. It'll be interesting to see if Stephenie writes a little about true werewolves in future books when/if she comes back to the Twilight universe.

Yeah I wondered about this too. The Quileute legends in Eclipse tell us how the first shapeshifter wolf came to be, and it had nothing to do with vampires. And a lot of their men were changing to wolves as soon as they entered adulthood long before any vamps showed up, so I never understood how the only reason the Quileute wolves exist now is in response to vampires being nearby. I don't think the Quileute wolves and vampires are REAL enemies like regular werewolves and vampires, but the Quileutes still see the vampires as a threat to their people so I guess it's enough of a motive to keep them shapeshifting. But I still don't get why they smell so bad to each other?

Hi, I registered a few minutes ago so I could join in the conversation. So apologies if I'm all n00bish, but I really wanted to ask. I have the same thoughts as Shakespeare and myBdayisSept13too! .

The "Children of the Moon" and "they're-not-werewolves-they're-shapeshifters" thing really confused me. I don't like it and I think it was a bad idea to slam in the end of the last book, let alone have it in the series at all. I was too used to calling Jacob a werewolf; I simply accepted that he was different than traditional myths like the vampires. Because I hate the traditional vampires and werewolves, and love the Twilight ones for being more creative and... rational, I guess. Seriously; crosses, garlic, coffins, burned by the sun...? umm...

Why wolves? Wolves don't normally attack people. It seems unfair to me that specifically wolves are targeted as the evil animal. [I love all animals including wolves] XD Why full moons? Wolves don't really howl at the moon, they howl to communicate. Err, I think... Wolves can't survive well when they're alone. Wolves aren't crazy and attack people unless they have rabies or something. So Quileute wolves made more sense to me. They lived in packs like regular wolves, and had an Alpha, etc. They made wolves seem cool rather than scary. Best of all, I loved how Stephenie didn't portray them as huge, ugly, hairy half men things that people normally see. I wish Children of the Moon just didn't exist, or that the Quileutes could turn into different kinds of animals, because otherwise it's just too much of wolves wolves wolves... especially when vampires themselves don't seem to have any connections with wolves. So why should they be traditional enemies?

And the Quileute wolves are the exact opposite of vampires. I think I heard somewhere that the shape-shifters undergo mental pain rather than the physical pain of vampire transformation. The vampires have cold skin. The shape-shifters have hot skin. But they both have the inhuman speed, strength, all the sharpened senses. Even if those shape-shifters are just one group in a tribe, and vampires are all over the world, it still made more sense that they would be enemies.

Despite the vague foreshadowing from the previous books, the Children of the Moon thing just hit me too quickly. I wish Edward could have explained more to Bella about what the werewolves really looked like, how they and vampires came to exist and to hate each other, how you can really kill them, what do they do, why they are wolves, etc. Okay I'm assuming from regular myths that real werewolves just go insane and kill people... then why are they enemies with vampires? They both kill people as part of their nature, and it's not like there is a competition between them. But Quileutes see vampires as their enemy because they want to protect humankind. That makes much more sense.

Besides, if there are vampires and werewolves and shape-shifters and human-vampire hybrids, then why can't you have unicorns? Dragons? Elves? Fairies? Phoenixes? Witches? But then again, it would be too overwhelming and sudden because it was only supposed to be based on the vampires vs. werewolves thing. That's why I wish there was a book after Breaking Dawn... aw well. This werewolf thing has been bugging me all day because it disappointed me. I felt like it ruined the perfection of the series. LOL.

aprilshowers wrote:This is just a random theory but what if the smell is an indicator that a powerful species is around.Kind oflike a warning of some sort.

Also I don't think the "werewolves" and vampires are naturally mortal enemies,I think that the Quiluetes make the change into wolves to protect themselves and their people when something dangerous is around.I think the vampires were the first seriously dangerous species they had come across in a long time.

I agree that its probably an indicator, Edward said in MS that part of the reason its uncomfortable to hold his breath is that his sense of scent is his first line of defense/self-preservation. I don't think that the shape-shifters and vampires are mortal enemies. I think that the shape-shifters and anything that threatens the tribe safety are enemies. The first spirit warriors protected the tribe from rival tribes in the north, and the first spirit wolf protected the tribe from Utlapa. After a while, there was no need for protection, and no need for the wolves, but when the vampires came, the need for protection, and ergo the need for wolves came back.

The best analogy I can come up with is how its believed that mitochondria used to be a different organism, but lost its functions, other than turning sugar into ATP, because the human cell would do the other functions for it. That sounded a lot better in my head.

So I think that if in the future, La Push needed to be protected again, even from something other than vampires, and a human couldn't handle it, the wolves would come back and take care of it

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who_needs_fangs? wrote:I don't think that the shape-shifters and vampires are mortal enemies. I think that the shape-shifters and anything that threatens the tribe safety are enemies. The first spirit warriors protected the tribe from rival tribes in the north, and the first spirit wolf protected the tribe from Utlapa. After a while, there was no need for protection, and no need for the wolves, but when the vampires came, the need for protection, and ergo the need for wolves came back.

The best analogy I can come up with is how its believed that mitochondria used to be a different organism, but lost its functions, other than turning sugar into ATP, because the human cell would do the other functions for it. That sounded a lot better in my head.

So I think that if in the future, La Push needed to be protected again, even from something other than vampires, and a human couldn't handle it, the wolves would come back and take care of it

Well-said! *claps* I totally agree, and I actually understood everything you were trying to say