I've come to the understanding that just as one can hallucinate visual and audio input, one can also conjure up mental processes such as choice. In a dream state, one's avatar often makes choices. They feel real and the thought process feels really, but in retrospect, upon waking they seem ludicrous and in light of the real world, one realizes that there was no real input at all. Now, it isn't necessary to wait until one awakes to understand that one is not on control. Upon this understanding, the illusion fades and you can start to act independently, without so much influence of various subconscious forces. Perhaps "fades" is not the correct word. The illusion is illuminated as one understands its nature. Whether or not it remains is a matter of choice. The contrast between false choice and true conscious action is enough to reveal the entire nature of one's world.

Now, in the waking life, we often make suspect choices, influenced by internal and external matrices of control. We find our actions designed to maintain the status quo and/or satisfy odd, pointless desires. Do you make real choices or do you simply follow prescripted events that provide you with ethereal illusions of control? Do you even know? In one's daily life, we maintain the status quo, if not of greater society, then of one's personal life. Why? Is there even a valid reason for many of the routines we follow, or are they the schemes of a false consciousness, blocking our view of reality?

Discuss.

__________________And what shall we toast?

Madness! Combustion! Liberty and the end of all law! The invisible international! The toast is anarchy!

Like I have said so many times on here. How can one say what reality is when you have not experienced or have no recolection of any other reality. False consciousness? What is a true consciousness?

this
in a nutshell
is the key to all discussions

if i had things my way -LMAO- this would be the topic that came before all of the others

first of all
a mind needs to be brought to the point where it questions reality

THEN

we can go back and revisit all of our favorite topics
race and skin color
food
conspiracy
apocalypse
etc

when you question the limitations of 'reality'
you can determine
1 - what you are capable of
2 - what you arent capable of
3 - what true freedom is
4 - what real responsibility is
5 - the limits of communication
6 - the hollowness and power of words

its all about self savior
and not worshipping words just because they were taught to you by the system you were raised in

if i had things my way -LMAO- this would be the topic that came before all of the others

first of all
a mind needs to be brought to the point where it questions reality

THEN

we can go back and revisit all of our favorite topics
race and skin color
food
conspiracy
apocalypse
etc

when you question the limitations of 'reality'
you can determine
1 - what you are capable of
2 - what you arent capable of
3 - what true freedom is
4 - what real responsibility is
5 - the limits of communication
6 - the hollowness and power of words

its all about self savior
and not worshipping words just because they were taught to you by the system you were raised in

Aqua, of course you need to sleep to understand this. I'm dealing with altered states of consciouness and their implications. If you've not experienced them, then no, you can't relate. You put that out there in a confrantational manner, but frankly, thats on you. Its your job to do the introspection to understand your own psychology and what your mind is capable of.

In terms of the issue's importance, you can walk away from everything. No one will pursue. No one is requiring you to live in this society or any other, so I wouldn't concern myself with who did what and who's causing this or that. There is however, one that I can't walk away from, myself. Understanding should begin and end with knowledge of one's own inner workings.

I already know who and what causes all illusions. Do you?

__________________And what shall we toast?

Madness! Combustion! Liberty and the end of all law! The invisible international! The toast is anarchy!

Aqua, of course you need to sleep to understand this. I'm dealing with altered states of consciouness and their implications. If you've not experienced them, then no, you can't relate. You put that out there in a confrantational manner, but frankly, thats on you. Its your job to do the introspection to understand your own psychology and what your mind is capable of.

In terms of the issue's importance, you can walk away from everything. No one will pursue. No one is requiring you to live in this society or any other, so I wouldn't concern myself with who did what and who's causing this or that. There is however, one that I can't walk away from, myself. Understanding should begin and end with knowledge of one's own inner workings.

I already know who and what causes all illusions. Do you?

Yea...you come in my threads in a confrontational manner so I'm just returning the favor.

If you don't agree with what I have to say then ...who cares?

But, when you come and hate on me like a fuckin 12 year old then you will be dealt with like a 12 year old.

I've experinced altered states but, I know the cause of them.

You are in here asking these crackas to explain to you your own mentality. That is backwards, stupid, and fuckin retarded.

Get a grip, and learn the difference between a dream and reality then you can present yourself as a grown man in front of your open enemy.

Yea...you come in my threads in a confrontational manner so I'm just returning the favor.

Very adult of you.

Quote:

If you don't agree with what I have to say then ...who cares?

I do, because the ignorance you spread has been known to get people killed.

Quote:

But, when you come and hate on me like a fuckin 12 year old then you will be dealt with like a 12 year old.

I don't hate on you. I don't even KNOW you. I simply disagree with you most of the time and express that. If you say something I agree with, you'll get your credit. I don't get down with that tit for tat shit that you seem to think will bother me.

Quote:

I've experinced altered states but, I know the cause of them.

You keep saying this as if its someone other than yourself. Interesting.

Quote:

You are in here asking these crackas to explain to you your own mentality.

I don't recall asking anyone to explain anything to me. I'm posing a question so that anyone who reads it can marinate on the same shit I do, not so they can come tell me what I need to know.

Quote:

Get a grip, and learn the difference between a dream and reality

I know the difference. You see, I'm no crackpot trying to blast off to dimension x. I'm simply exploring the nature of my mental makeup and how it affects me in my daily life.

Quote:

then you can present yourself as a grown man in front of your open enemy.

This is amusing to me. First of all, I have no enemies. To declare someone an enemy is to lock them down into one category, as if the conflict is more than an issue of circumstance. Whether or not it can be resolved peacefully, I try not to place a personal and permenant investment in the situation.

Second, my ability to present myself before my "enemies" has nothing to do with this thread. This is merely philosophy. As disarming as this is, and as unconfrantational as I may seem, it doesn't define me. You have NO idea what else I study.

__________________And what shall we toast?

Madness! Combustion! Liberty and the end of all law! The invisible international! The toast is anarchy!

Very adult of you. Yea...you see how retarded you act now, huh? That's Good.

I do, because the ignorance you spread has been known to get people killed.
The truth ain't for complacent cowards like you. Preach your pussy bullshit all you want but, I WILL call you on it since you like confontation in my threads.

I don't hate on you. I don't even KNOW you. I simply disagree with you most of the time and express that. If you say something I agree with, you'll get your credit. I don't get down with that tit for tat shit that you seem to think will bother me.Who cares if it bothers YOU??? I sure do feel good about putting your immature ass in your 12 year old place.

You keep saying this as if its someone other than yourself. Interesting.What are you talking about??...too abstract, bring it back down to earth, k?

I don't recall asking anyone to explain anything to me. I'm posing a question so that anyone who reads it can marinate on the same shit I do, not so they can come tell me what I need to know. Then why bring dreamy bullshit up???...It has been known to get men killed. And since we know that you are a punk ass who is afraid to die, maybe you should get more specific about your ideas. Cuz it just sounds like a bunch of babble.

I know the difference. You see, I'm no crackpot trying to blast off to dimension x. I'm simply exploring the nature of my mental makeup and how it affects me in my daily life. If you really knew, then you wouldn't have left yourself open for cracka interpretation. You think your mentality is the same as the majority of the people who are controlled by cracka devils....so you really just sound like a dreamy, scared, confused person.

This is amusing to me. First of all, I have no enemies. To declare someone an enemy is to lock them down into one category, as if the conflict is more than an issue of circumstance. Whether or not it can be resolved peacefully, I try not to place a personal and permenant investment in the situation. Then you shouldn't come in my threads and spread your stupid, handicapped ass, dreamy ass bullshit.

Second, my ability to present myself before my "enemies" has nothing to do with this thread. This is merely philosophy. As disarming as this is, and as unconfrantational as I may seem, it doesn't define me. You have NO idea what else I study.

From what you say in my threads...it seems like you do have a PHD in hating. And you do present yourself in front of your enemies as a confused dreamy idiot...in case you didn't know.

You should get knowledge of self and then learn how to be a man instead of a complacent cracka slave.

Aqualung, your thought process is flawed. I sit sit back and think some "dreamy" shit, and therefore I'm a pussy? Come on. Thats just macho nonsense. I could make a much more manly thread on how to garrote people with their own clothes, but I'm not here to prove how much of a man I am.

__________________And what shall we toast?

Madness! Combustion! Liberty and the end of all law! The invisible international! The toast is anarchy!

Aqualung, your thought process is flawed. I sit sit back and think some "dreamy" shit, and therefore I'm a pussy? Come on. Thats just macho nonsense. I could make a much more manly thread on how to garrote people with their own clothes, but I'm not here to prove how much of a man I am.

what does it mean when another person broadcasts what appear to be harsh words?

is it ideas clashing?
or is it people clashing?

is it intelligence trying to define itself?

is it a demonstration of people becoming what they hate most?
or
is it a demonstration of people manifesting forces of nature?

or
is it a demonstration of boredom and nothing better to do?

there are many perspectives to look at it from
and
it is good to be aware of the different points of view

in terms of coming to agreement
if we agree that we are on planet earth in the year 2006
i am sure we can all agree that suffering exists here
and that as long as it exists there is an imminent threat to our physical bodies and an increasing threat to all physical bodies here

as far as we know - these bodies are the only things on this planet capable of holding divine intelligence

so
whether this is 'real' or 'dream'
it does not matter

the threat is real and needs to be identified in its many forms

exploring the nature of reality can help a person develop new approaches to the situation

Os3y3ris, I'm glad you posted this,
While I can't say "yes" or "no" to your direct question about our destinies and wether we follow a scripted course, or wether we make it up as we go along, I think it depends on what you believe.
My theory on fate is, once presented with a choice to do something, wether you do it or not, and the intentions you have behind doing it especially, will determine it's effect on your life.

Dreams in general are very real occurances. All it is, is involuntary Astral Projection. Your soul travels through space and time. The time stage that you're in while sleeping is actually true time. When you wake, you're slowing back down to deal with the time in this realm. To prove my point, notice how sluggish you are when waking. Then, to really prove my point, put on one of your favorite songs, and notice how much faster the beat is going. This will only work when you first wake, then you'll see that if you wait about 30 minutes to an hour, and turn the song back on, it's going t it's "normal" pace. That's because your soul is reaquainted with the speed of your current state.

To get a better sense of myself, I actually got into Chakra Balancing, which requires meditation. Dreams are easily affected by what you experience while you're awake. Since it's suggested that you go to a place in your mind where you feel at peace while meditating, I placed myself on top of Mother Earth, with the Sun to my right, and the Moon to my left. With the help of some appropriately spacey music, (Spacemonkeyz vs. Gorillaz: Lakia Come Home.), I stayed in this trance for about half an hour, then I was off to bed.

My dream starts....
I'm running through a forest trying to outrun 2 characters that scared me a great deal when I was a child, Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees. Only, this time, I'm running backwards watching them chase me, and I'm laughing at them. Then....I took off. Before I knew it, I was in space looking down at Mother Earth.
When I woke I thought, "Damn, that was sexy." I also believed that if you honestly have tunnel vision in whatever you want to accomplish, you have no choice but to succeed at it. It's inevitable.

Dreams are very real occurances. The only reason people call it a "hallucination" is because they can't see, hear, or feel what you are at the time. Anyone who has smoked marijuana before will know this. Now, although I quit, while I was smoking, I decided to see what effect marijauna had on a person's Chakras. This was when it got VERY interesting. It turns out that not only does weed open up 2 of your chakras, it open up 2 of the most important ones....WIDE. The 6th (third eye chakra, just above the eyebrows.) and the 7th (top of the head). Now, the 3rd eye chakra connects you to every living thing around you. The 7th connects you to the great beyond. Ever notice that some people get really philisophical, or draw the greatest pictures, or make the tightest beats when their high? There's your reason. Most call those people "hallucinating" when they see, hear or feel something that most other people don't. This is not so. They're experiencing a level of consciousness that's very suttle and completely different from the one we normally experience. Nothing happens by accident. If it were useless, we wouldn't know about it, because it wouldn't exist.

For you Os3y, I recommend you learn about the chakras and meditation as well. You seem to understand enough about the outer limits already, this should help you considerably methinks.