The Hole #11 at Chili us listed as Par 4. That is ridiculous. No one but a real Pro could do that! I feel good if I make it in 6. I have never done it less that 6, hopefully someday I will make it in 5. Meanwhile, can we make a realistic Par for that hole, like Par 5 or 6?

Iv'e been saying that for ever! Amen Brother! I can usually par it, but it should definitly be a par 5 (it would be a 6 on the Erie disc circut - lol). I think its a 4 from Reds and 5 from the cement tee box - therefore should be a 5/4 par I believe. That's how I been playing it for a while now.

Brownguy wrote:in reality if you can throw 300 3 times and make a 11' putt you will 4 it!!!!!

Everybody says that but those have to be three really good 300' shots back to back to back.

To get 300' on your first shot if you follow the fairway you have to hit a 30 foot gap after 230+ feet or be stuck in a pine or be OB. A lefty can hyzer over the pines, but a righty has to risk 250 of semi-rough OB to avoid the little fairway gap. And depending on the wind you risk losing it in the woods. Or if you've got a 250' anny your can go over the pines to the left.

If you manage to get past that unscathed then you can throw another bomb...but it can't turn too much or the OB woods will snag it, and it can't fade much or you will be stuck in the trees guarding 13. If you manage to keep that shot in the fairway with good footing then you can thread one around the lone pine and between the last two trees 50 feet apart and get it in the circle.

I'm not saying it can't be done...it can...and if you have a 300' overhand shot then it really helps...but I believe for 95% of us a 4 is a birdie.

As it has been said here before in the end par doesn't matter...just how many strokes it takes you to finish the course...so there is not much use in worrying about it, but if you want to debate it then I ask like I did last year...who is regularly taking a 4 on this? Who is getting a 4 on this 50% of the time? Who has taken a 4 on this once this year?

Taking into consideration the growth of the trees, both in the initial fairway/gap and on both sides of the fairway, not to mention the OB line down the right side, this is a par 5 all day long. A 4 is a birdie and a 3 is an eagle. 15 years ago, one could just throw over the top of everything and the par was closer to a 4 for the pros, but still a 5 for the ams.

Oddly I was just writing down our pars for the courses, because I was dabbling with handicaps and course ratings and course slopes. It got me to thinking ....but all day long 911 is a par 5. Chili is a par 58. But from a golf standpoint, Chili now with the growth, has a higher course rating than it used to. Ellison was a par 57(the new 16 has changed that) and its course rating would be lower relative to that par than Chili's is compared to its par. Same with the slopes. Chili's slope would be high but not as high as say Basil,....which is a par 56. (Hole 8 is a par 4, and hole 11 and 14 are 3.5 = 56). I'm bring in back the par 3 1/2's baby! woot woot.

Which means Parma is a par 59 ...

I truly believe gauging your score to these pars, helps your confidence when you play solid but don't light up the birdies some days. Shooting a 4 on 911 or a 3 on hole 8 at Basil are good birdies. Getting a 3 on hole 11 and 15 at Basil is like gaining a stroke on the field.

Obvioulsy keeping score relative to 54 is easier on easier courses but it seems like shooting a 60 @ Chili is not 6 over its really only + 2. BUt if the top pros shoot a 47, they are actually -11. That is course record type scoring....oh yeah... it was!

...which leads me back to handicapping....911 is not the hardest hole on the course. Its an easier par five than say hole 18 is a par 4. or hole 15 is a par 3. 18 & 15 would have higher handicaps( lower number ratings) so in tournament play, only the hardest holes would give relief to higher handicapped players.....and so I keep dabbling......just keeping the conversation interesting....

I like your thoughts Mike, what's the thought on hole 6 at Chili? I, myself am enjoying courses that have par 4's and 5's, because they all require different strategies and are more challenging compared to the old courses using old style plastic where most holes were par 3's. None of our courses here are a straight par 54.

Hole 6 at Chili is a par 4, all day long....its just not the hardest hole on the course. As a 4 its a moderately easy birdie. Chili is a par 58. Not a very difficult par 58 if it not windy, but with the trees it requires one to stay on the fairway or bogies will come a callin'.