The format of this one is unusual; since virtually all of our correspondence was on the forums rather than E-mail, and since it was not all neatly arranged into a single thread the way it was with AJT, I decided to clip a bunch of excerpts of his funniest arguments into the page while posting links to the relevant threads here on the board.

"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."- George Carlin

"People tell me, 'Bill, let it go. The Kennedy assassination was years ago. It was just the assassination of a President and the hijacking of our government by a totalitarian regime — who cares? Just let it go.' I say, 'All right then. That whole Jesus thing? Let it go! It was 2,000 years ago! Who cares?'"- Bill Hicks

I feel bad about saying "It rocks!" without providing at least one choice quote. To that effect:

Quote:

PS I studied Kendo while in Japan and Ethiopia, so I know a little bit about sword work too. (Not much as I got bored with all the rote exercises and quit after only a year and a half but enough to know that nothing I've seen in the movies is that good without wire work.)

Fuck, this lying shit looks like fun. Kinda like the time I wrestled giant crocodiles up north, this was right after the time I discovered the buried alien warvessel under Antarctica...

I remember being on the recieving end of that sort of accusastion once.

I mentioned that I spent two years working in a very hazardous line of government duty, and that racism and sexism was flat out bullshit because when chips were down we had to depend on the guy next to us to save our asses.

the trolling donkey raper, asked if this was when I was ding chevez in rainbow six.

my reply no this was when I spent two years freshout of high school, as an Office of Emergency Services Fire Fighter/ 911 operator/dispatcher. I guess government service means exclusively cloak and dagger bullshit, it's not possible to have a sci-fi fan whose done a short stint in the military, or whose been on a fireline, or whose employed as a police officer?

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin

my reply no this was when I spent two years freshout of high school, as an Office of Emergency Services Fire Fighter/ 911 operator/dispatcher. I guess government service means exclusively cloak and dagger bullshit, it's not possible to have a sci-fi fan whose done a short stint in the military, or whose been on a fireline, or whose employed as a police officer?

You're not saying you take his claims seriously, are you? Did you take a good look at those claims?

"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

Joined: 2002-09-24 01:48pmPosts: 27779Location: DC...looking up from the gutters to the stars

The Yosemite Bear wrote:

my reply no this was when I spent two years freshout of high school, as an Office of Emergency Services Fire Fighter/ 911 operator/dispatcher. I guess government service means exclusively cloak and dagger bullshit, it's not possible to have a sci-fi fan whose done a short stint in the military, or whose been on a fireline, or whose employed as a police officer?

Yes, but YB...were you employed by at least 20~25 engineering firms, a crack shot with a pistol that out does movie stunts and Bruce Lee mixed all into one?

Seriously I can believe some larger claims but there is a point where there is no concievable way a man can be all that and a bag of chips

MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!

Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all

So far, no one has counted the fragments or computed thier speed on this site. Untill that happens, none of you can percieve my brilliance. You will all just go on in ignorance as before, beliving the mistakes of others.

A compression factor of twenty makes the density almost 400 tons per cubic meter. The volume of a sphere 2,500m in radius is 6.5*10^10th M^3. At 400 tons per M^3 makes 2.6^16th kilogrames. At 3.3*10^17J/Kg that makes 8.7*10^33J. Or almost 90 times more than enough to explain the effects as scene on film.

Joined: 2002-12-24 08:29amPosts: 10681Location: The Covenants last and final line of defense

Stofsk wrote:

I feel bad about saying "It rocks!" without providing at least one choice quote. To that effect:

Quote:

PS I studied Kendo while in Japan and Ethiopia, so I know a little bit about sword work too. (Not much as I got bored with all the rote exercises and quit after only a year and a half but enough to know that nothing I've seen in the movies is that good without wire work.)

Fuck, this lying shit looks like fun. Kinda like the time I wrestled giant crocodiles up north, this was right after the time I discovered the buried alien warvessel under Antarctica...

based on the time interval between the background stars in all the ST TV episodes, the speed equals 4-8 LY/SECOND!!!!!!!

THATS OVER 126,233,856 TO 254,467,712 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT! Some clips show even higher speeds! The slowest of the two figures makes the 50,000 LY trip from ST-5 in <3.5 hours! So the 6.7 hour trip in the ST-5 movie is certainly possable.

Given the cannon evidence in the 5 films, that makes ST many times faster than SW! Again, I recomend the ST-v-SW.net web site for more explanations and documentation!

That is obviously true! That the speeds in every single episode and movie of the ST universe shows speeds in the hundreds of millions of "C"! It is all cannon. None of the "taking decades to cross the galaxy" is in cannon data! It comes from books that are specificly excluded from from cannon status by Rodenberry and the Paramount organisation.

5. Cite your research. Name the books/web sites/classes. Not true! I worked for the Defense Department in one form or an other for 20 years! I sent copies of forms to prove it, Wong never posted them for all to see! Go on line and find a copy of STAR FLEET BATTLES CAPTAINS LOGs 8 AND 9. One of them has my name winning my "RATED ACE" Classification. Public proof that I have some skill at the NATIONAL LEVEL in space war gamming. Can you cite any such proof?

...

That is another thing. Mike has never answered my chalenge to show how the energy losses would not vaporise the Death Star even if it was a million times more efficiant at all those things above than any machine envisioned here and now! Think about it! With the Direct Energy Transfer model if the Death Star absorbed one one millionth of the energy they cite, it would have to dissipate 10^32J OR AS MUCH ENERGY AS I SAY COULD DESTROY THE PLANET! With my model, the DS only has to supply a tiny fraction of the energy to destroy the planet. Under mikes own rules the technology that needs the least suspension of disbelife is the better solution to any problem!

I think that you need to do some work and show off that great tutonic education. How much energy would be required to accellerate the required mass of nutrons to the velocity required to fission U-238? Use your own figures for the mass of Urainium and the nutrons. You calculate the energy required to push a spike into the planets core and then show that it exceeds the available energy of the DS's inertia. (Hint, you can find penitromiter figures in Richard M. Orgorkowitz's books on "Design and Developement of Armored Fighting Vehicals") I am to lazy and know from expiriance that there are many OoM worth of energy to spair for the task. You calculate the mean free path in U-238 at any dencity you like to prove that my plan could not possably work. Write it out longhand, with the names of the items so that all of the less well educated on this board can figure it out for themselves!

I think that you should prove that it will not work or we could assume that it will!

I'm too tired to read each of his posts in detail, so I'm sure I missed some, but this should be enough for now.

Ignoring the BS spread by the Pro-Wars croud, Star Trek has the best and fastest drive! ~50,000LY in 6.7 hours as demonstraighted in ST-5. They always cite Voyagers 75 year trip for whatever distance it went. But they ignore the other clips that show much faster ships and trips. It would be like me showing the average speed of the SW universe by computing the "Less than a Parsec" trip in under 15 hours that the Senitor Amadala and Aniken Skywalker made to rescue Obi-wan OR all the dozzens of defective passages in the various SW books. ( That have lessor Cannon status too!)

By averaging the star motion in the various TV and film clips even faster speeds are routeen. Ships with warp drives can turn, maneuver and even have combat at FTL speeds or do "Warp Straffing"! Something the SW ships can not do! In the origional printed, (non-cannon) books, the first Enterprise was cappable of Warp-12! Look that up on the various charts on the Pro-Wars sites that you can find.

There are other drives out there that give "Instantainious" point to point travel, but I recomend that you read "Gurps Space" to find the advantages and defects for the various speeds that you might find.

But of the choises given, the ST Warp Engine is clearly the best!

My response, which was off-the-cuff more than anything:

Quote:

Oh and Stewie? You are officially on crack. Pounding one or two incidents as evidence cannot possibly outweigh the fact that the premise of an entire StarTrek television series revolved around the fact that it would take them decades to cross the galaxy!

Typicaly Stewie logic: "Teh insidant in ST5 is worht mor then all of Yovajer!"

Stewie, responding to a seperate post of mine:

Stewie wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:

The hyperdrive attachment on Obi-Wans Aethersprite manages to make trips from Coruscant to Kamino in less than a day (with Coruscant being on the edge of the galactic core and Kamino being on the galactic rim).

Same with trips from Coruscant and Tatooine, as demonstrated in EP1 where Darth Maul leaves for Tatooine after getting word of Amidala's location from the Trade Federation and arrives at dusk. This cannot be dusk on a different day, as Anakin says he will be in the Bootna Eve podrace "tomorrow", Darth Maul arrives on Tatooine, then the next day the podrace happens.

Both of these trips indicate major galaxy crossing speeds even with small engined craft.

Out of the Big 3, the StarWars hyperdrive is clearly the fastest.

The single biggest problem with this is the maps shown in two of the movies. In one Corisant is about 10% from the geometric center of the galaxy and the destination is about 25% from the edge of the galaxy. It's all cannon and that makes it slower than ST.

My response to that:

Gil Hamilton wrote:

Wrong-o, Stewie. Coruscant* is indeed corewards, but Kamino was described as being out on the edge of the galaxy, as is Tatooine. There were no maps in either movies where Coruscant and Kamino were shown and labeled on a galactic map (in fact, it purposely wasn't, since it's location was deleted from the map that Obi-Wan got at the Jedi Library). And that still doesn't invalidate how Darth Maul got from Coruscant to Tatooine in under a day.

All of this is vastly faster than ships in StarTrek, which take years to cross similar distances, as shown in just about every series.

*How the hell did you misspell Coruscant? I typed it several times in my post.

Stewie, responding out of sync with me to my initial comment regarding him

Stewie wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:

Oh and Stewie? You are officially on crack. Pounding one or two incidents as evidence cannot possibly outweigh the fact that the premise of an entire StarTrek television series revolved around the fact that it would take them decades to cross the galaxy!

Typicaly Stewie logic: "Teh insidant in ST5 is worht mor then all of Yovajer!"

That is obviously true! That the speeds in every single episode and movie of the ST universe shows speeds in the hundreds of millions of "C"! It is all cannon. None of the "taking decades to cross the galaxy" is in cannon data! It comes from books that are specificly excluded from from cannon status by Rodenberry and the Paramount organisation.

However, the books are cannon in the SW universe! The SW books have literaly hundreds of contradictions to the speed claims that you cite! Some of the film's footage also contradicts the speeds claims made on SW's behalf, such as the two map sceens that show the points traveled are not at thier geometric discriptions but some considerable distance from them. Those changes to the equasions make SW much slower than ST. Also like ST, SW has many different speed capassities. Like "under a parsec" in over 15 hours, that it took Senator Amadala and Skywalker to go to Obi-wan's rescue.

IN IETHER CASE, THERE ARE FASTER AND SLOWER SHIPS IN BOTH SETTINGS!IT IS ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THE FASTEST SHIPS IN ST ARE FASTER THAN THE FASTEST SHIPS IN SW!

Stewie, responding to a comment of mine to someone else:

Stewie wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:

Let's not forget that several times in DS9 they commented repeatedly that without the wormhole, it would take decades for ships to reach the Gamma Quadrant. If StarTrek ships could effortlessly zip across the Milky Way, the wormhole would really be such a huge chokepoint, would it? It's clear that it's not just Voyager that is that slow.

THERE ARE CERTAINLY FASTER AND SLOWER SHIPS IN BOTH SETTINGS! That the average commertial ship might take decades to cross the galaxy is just like Senator Amadalla's ship which takes OVER 15 HOURS TO GO "LESS THAN A PARSEC" TO RESCUE OBI-WAN! At that speed, it would take her ship over 28.5 years to cover the same distance as Voyager. Voyager is an experimental research ship and as such obviously does not require the same level of speed as fleet units. In addition, she is capable of much faster burst speeds, on a par with anything in the SW setting! It is just that her sustained speed is obviously much less.

Our argument is which setting has the best FTL drive! Everone cites the examples that make them look best and the other side look it's worst. BUT IN ANY FAIR JUDGEMENT, STAR TREK BEATS STAR WARS!

Stewie, responding to a response:

Stewie wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:

Wrong-o, Stewie. Coruscant* is indeed corewards, but Kamino was described as being out on the edge of the galaxy, as is Tatooine. There were no maps in either movies where Coruscant and Kamino were shown and labeled on a galactic map (in fact, it purposely wasn't, since it's location was deleted from the map that Obi-Wan got at the Jedi Library). And that still doesn't invalidate how Darth Maul got from Coruscant to Tatooine in under a day.

All of this is vastly faster than ships in StarTrek, which take years to cross similar distances, as shown in just about every series.

*How the hell did you misspell Coruscant? I typed it several times in my post.

Wrongo yourself! When Obi-wan shows the map to the kids, Kamino is clearly well inside the Galaxy. The actual quote is that "Kamino is beyond the rim" It does not say whether it is beyond the Republic's rim or the Galaxies rim. The fact that Obi-wan's finger points to a place well inside the Galaxy defines the location exactly. The resulting distance obtained by clever souls who counted the pixels threw the sceen, is that the distance can be NO MORE THAN 25-26% OF THE GALAXIES SPAN!

The same argument can be made about Tatooine's location.

At this point, I come to the conclusion that he cannot possibly be for real and stop talking to him, but he posted some real gems in there. Here is one of the real beauts from that thread that he responded to other people:

Stewie wrote:

VietHNgo wrote:

Since you keep telling us it's stupid to simply believe Mike Wong instead of working things out for ourselves, Stewart, you are a complete hypocrite for referring us to DarkStar's site.

[Refering to DarkStar -- ed]But he has much better evidence on his site and it is very fair! That is something that Wong is not. After all he banned me because he did not understand my ideas and calcs.

He also went so far as to claim that Voyager was purposely built several orders of magnitude slower than all other Federation ships, for some reason, and that's why it couldn't just zip back from the Delta Quadrant.

"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter

I think the page does Stewart the justice he deserves. Thanks for letting us see it.

"Depending on who you talk to, a mercenary can be anything from a savior to the scum of the universe. On the Wolf's Dragoons world of Outreach, the Mercenary's Star, we know what a merc really is - a business man." - Wolf's Dragoons, Outreach (Merc World mag. 3056)

Of course, it should be noted that the JSDF does have extensive combat experience against this individual:

So perhaps I should not be taking them so lightly

*gasps for air*

I'm sorry, that was just...just too damn funny...

Is it possible to FUQ something like this off his website?

*goes back to uncontrolable laughing*

"How can I wait unknowing?This is the price of war,We rise with noble intentions,And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight

"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

my reply no this was when I spent two years freshout of high school, as an Office of Emergency Services Fire Fighter/ 911 operator/dispatcher. I guess government service means exclusively cloak and dagger bullshit, it's not possible to have a sci-fi fan whose done a short stint in the military, or whose been on a fireline, or whose employed as a police officer?

You're not saying you take his claims seriously, are you? Did you take a good look at those claims?

no just pointing out that some trolls have reversed that arguement, and called quite reasonable claims to be falsehoods. it's the preponderance of the evedance that pretty much seals ones fate. Sorry that I am a devil's advocate by nature, (actually that would be more nuture) The arguement that "I am a government Spook who is smarter then Mc Gyver" is preposterous, the arguement that "I put my life in harms way working for the government (fire fighting is dangerous)" doesn't equal that.

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin

A compression factor of twenty makes the density almost 400 tons per cubic meter. [b]The volume of a sphere 2,500m in radius is 6.5*10^10th M^3. At 400 tons per M^3 makes 2.6^16th kilogrames. At 3.3*10^17J/Kg that makes 8.7*10^33J. [b/]Or almost 90 times more than enough to explain the effects as scene on film.

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