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Government Dependents Outnumber Those With Private Sector Jobs In 11 U.S. States

By Michael Snyder, on December 26th, 2012

America is rapidly becoming a nation of takers. An increasing number of Americans expect the government to take care of them from the cradle to the grave, and they expect the government to dig into the pockets of others in order to pay for it all. This philosophy can be very seductive, but what happens when the number of takers eventually outnumbers the number of producers? In 11 different U.S. states, the number of government dependents exceeds the number of private sector workers. This list of states includes some of the biggest states in the country: California, New York, Illinois, Ohio, Maine, Kentucky, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, New Mexico and Hawaii. It is interesting to note that seven of those states were won by Barack Obama on election night. In California, there are 139 “takers” for every 100 private sector workers. That is crazy! The American people have become absolutely addicted to government money, and it gets worse with each passing year. If you can believe it, entitlements accounted for 62 percent of all federal spending in fiscal year 2012. It would be one thing if we could afford all of this spending, but unfortunately we simply cannot. We are drowning in debt, and we are stealing more than a hundred million more dollars from future generations with each passing hour. No bank robber in history can match that kind of theft.

Yes, we will always need a safety net. There are many people out there that simply cannot take care of themselves. We certainly don’t want to see anyone sleeping in the streets or starving to death.

But if the number of people jumping on to the safety net continues to grow at the current pace, the net will break and it will not be available for any of us.

For example, the number of Americans on food stamps grew from about 17 million in 2000 to more than 47 million today. It nearly tripled in just 12 years.

What will happen if it nearly triples again over the next 12 years?

The federal government even has a website (benefits.gov) that guides people through the process of figuring out what welfare programs they can take advantage of.

Overall, the federal government runs nearly 80 different “means-tested welfare programs” and more than 100 million Americans are already enrolled in at least one of those programs.

Yes, I realize that figure is very hard to believe. I had a hard time believing it when I first came across it.

And it is even more shocking when you realize that the figure of 100 million Americans does not even include those who only receive Social Security or Medicare.

To support all of those Americans on Social Security, there are only about 94.75 million full-time private sector workers.

So there are just 1.67 full-time private sector workers to support each American that is on Social Security.

Medicare is also growing like crazy. As I wrote about the other day, the number of Americans on Medicare is expected to grow from 50.7 million in 2012 to 73.2 million in 2025.

How much farther can we push things before the entire system collapses?

In order to support this exploding entitlement system, we need a lot more Americans to be working good paying jobs.

Unfortunately, millions of good paying jobs continue to be shipped overseas and they aren’t coming back.

We are even losing good jobs to our own prisoners. The United States has the largest prison population in the world by far, and the exploitation of that low wage labor pool has become a boom industry in America. Even Microsoft and Boeing are using prison labor now. Just check out this video.

Meanwhile, there are millions upon millions of law-abiding Americans that cannot find jobs and that cannot take care of their families.

So poverty and dependence on the government are absolutely exploding. We have a system that is so messed up that it is hard to even put it into words. The middle class is being viciously shredded, and most Americans just continue to applaud the politicians from both parties that are doing this to us.

Our economy is being gutted at the same time that the welfare state is experiencing unprecedented growth. Instead of giving us real answers, our “leaders” just continue to borrow, spend and print more money. We are about to hit the debt limit again, and the Obama administration is saying that we should just do away with the debt limit permanently.

Most of our politicians don’t seem to understand that they are systematically destroying our economy and the bright futures that our children and our grandchildren were supposed to have.

But there are some politicians out there that get it. Unfortunately, many of them live in other countries. For example, Canadian MP Pierre Poilievre seems to have a firm grasp on what debt is doing to the United States. The following are some excerpts from one of his speeches…

“By 2020, the US Government will be spending more annually on debt interest than the total combined military budgets of China, Britain, France, Russia, Japan, Germany, Saudi Arabia, India, Italy, South Korea, Brazil, Canada, Australia, Spain, Turkey, and Israel.”

“Through government spending the indulgence of one is the burden of another; through government borrowing, the excess of one generation becomes the yoke of the next; through international bailouts, one nation’s extravagance becomes another nation’s debt”

And if we continue down this path it is most definitely true that our money will eventually become worthless at some point. Just today I was down at the grocery store, and a can of chili that I was able to get on sale for 75 cents a couple of years ago now has a “sale price” of $1.69. If the Federal Reserve keeps recklessly printing dollars, eventually we will be fortunate to get a can of chili for 10 bucks. Things cost too much already, and the Fed seems absolutely determined to cut the legs out from under the U.S. dollar.

Unfortunately, printing money is the only way that we are going to be able to service the gigantic amounts of debt that we are accumulating.

Well I’m from Kentucky and I talked to my dad on Christmas, and he was telling me that, when the workers at the Ponderosa (A restaurant) showed up for their Christmas shift, they were given the shaft… No notice or anything… How’s that a Merry Christmas for you?

And this restaurant has been in business for over 20 years…

So, I can believe it…

MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

Is the entire chain shutting down? If so, that would be very sad.

Michael

Day2Day

I’m not sure if the whole chain is going out of business, but that one definitely is…

It’s sad because, this is a city that’s seen close to 10,000 job cuts over the past 4 years!

2Gary2

they serve crap

2Celia2

2Gary2 is all about crap.

Jodi

I agree Michael that would be sad.

2Gary2

Well I’m from Kentucky–you have my sincere sympathy. Bitch mcconel and ayn rand paul–what a state of fools that could ever vote those d-bags into office.

Syrin

Move to Chicago or Detroit, and be sure to leave any guns at home. It’s unchecked liberalism in action, and they are true utopias. Please, move to inner city Detroit. PLEASE !!

collaro

Michael: You have too much sand at the top of the hour glass!

MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

Good point – I need to find a different picture.

Michael

RICHARD

I agree, way to much.

Mondobeyondo

“Like sands through the hour glass, so go the Days of Our Lives”.

Oh wait, that show’s been cancelled, right?

El Pollo de Oro

“This is Macdonald Carey, and these are the Days of Our Lives.”

DownWithLibs

Nope, still on. They just changed the opener.

Can’t believe I even know that!

Mark

I have suggested in the past that we need to cut the costs of the food stamp program so that we can feed people as long as possible. The food stamp users need to cook very basic meals from scratch. Rice, beans, flour, sugar, powered eggs, powered milk, etc. This a least would keep folks from starving or going hungry. If you have a better idea, let’s hear it.

2Gary2

how about cutting corporate welfare??that is WAY WAY more money than the pitiful saftey net programs for the poor.

Syrin

See, your boy Obamugabe is owned by Goldman Sachs and took the damn near trillion dollar stimulus to bail out YOUR corporate buddies and labor extortioners you call unions.

Mark

Gary, we need to have real ideas on how to work on each problem. Corporate welfare is another issue. There needs to be reform as to what can be purchased with food stamps. The days of buying expensive prepared meals is going away and we need to get ahead of the problem. Buy what you want with your own money, but food stamps should be limited to lower cost items that will keep people from going hungry. Maybe supply a crock-pot. so that a meal can be cooked while the working poor are at work. If we do not do something to cut the costs, the whole food stamp system is going down and you will have riots from hungry people.

2Gary2

again–you are addressing a TINY issue while ignoring the much bigger corporate welfare. Address the corporate welfare and everything else will be moot.

Mark

100 billion a year is not a tiny issue. A billion here a billion there, it soon adds up to a trillion. Cuts of a thousand billion add up to a trillion. We would only need another 500 billion and we would be getting some place good. Come up with some ideas for real cuts to this program and then we can talk about cuts to corporate welfare. Try it, you might like it to be part of an answer instead of just throwing bombs.

2Gary2

again–focus on the big issue of corporate welfare.

2Celia2

again–address the Democrat entitlement welfare plantation.

2Gary2

these entitlements are really earned benefits that folks have paid into . Drop the right wing nut language. next you will rant on the death (estate) tax. You right wingers are so easily led and manipulated to vote against your self interest economically. F the conservative social agenda of God/Gays/Guns and get a clue. You right wing nuts are being used by your rich koch brother AstroTurf and you are too dumb to see it. Luckily you have me to point out your many failings.

Think man!

How do you pay into a system to earn benefits if you’ve never held a job?

2Gary2

I am glad you are turning my words around as this means I am correct.

Hammerstrike

Over 1 trillion a year.

2Celia2

again–you are addressing a TINY issue while ignoring the much bigger Democrat entitlement welfare plantation. Address the Democrat entitlement welfare plantation and everything else will be moot.

Hammerstrike

Yeah, cut it off.
But it isn´t that much larger than Welfare, because the latter have been grossly abused by tens of millions of parasites.
Democrat elite is richer than the republican one, inequality is higher under Obama than under Bush.

Hammerstrike

It isn´t corporate welfare that bankrupted California and Detroit.

2Gary2

again–you need to look at the BIG picture

Hammerstrike

The Big Picture is that it is the dimerat party that is the party of the rich, before the reps.
Obama have enriched the wealthy more than Bush AND gave out more welfare, it is no coïncidence.
The rich are NOT conservative, which is why Republican attempts to appeal to them, as first producers, makes me laugh.
Corporate Welfare and Lumpenproletariat Welfare, even taken separately, are not sustainable.

Ralfine

Yes, basically that’s how it is going to work.

Usually it takes a war to get out of the crisis.
You can also let the infrastructure run down and the people starving, if not enough are signing up to go overseas to get themselves killed.
Selling them guns to kill each other, is also helpful. Tell them it is for their own good, for their safety. Or that they are entitled to it. Human nature will take its course.

Hammerstrike

Good luck believing unarmed will actually protect you.

Ralfine

Just need to get a great distance between the guns and yourself. An AK47 bullet can fly over a mile, but only if you shoot 45 degrees up.

Not living in target areas like the US should help.

With the gun right should also come a right to declare a gun-free zone around your property and have it enforced by law enforcement.

You know, everyone travelling to the US also needs to declare whether or not he intends to kill the president.

Hammerstrike

Gonna live in the wilderness?

Ralfine

Hong Kong would be great. Safest place on earth.

Hammerstrike

There isn´t any welfare there, now is there?

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AZ2F3SJ6M7O3536QJDUGT3RXQ4 chris

I work full time and am against the govt. we have now.BUT what is the average” taker” taking? Food stamps is like $200/month. I love the blog and not a flame.Just trying to get context

2Gary2

As anyone who has read this blog for a while can see Michael never misses an opportunity to bash the poor as he ignores all the tax cuts for the rich and corporate welfare which are way way more money than any programs for the poor.

Michael–do not take my word for it simply take a tally of all the articles you post that bash the poor as opposed to the real issue of corporate welfare,

Syrin

You mean the tax cuts for the producers that generated hundreds of billions of dollars in gov’t revenue under 4 different presidents, dozens of nation and dozens of different decades? You mean unlike California which just raised taxes and watched gov’t revenue go down? So you WANT gov’t revenue to go down? Care to explain that one Spanky? See you IDIOTS on the left think the solution is to take 100% of a million rather than leaving the rate at 2%, letting the economy grow and get 2% of a billion. How many times did you fail math?

2Gary2

Syrin–I just dropped another job creator in the toilet. Thought you should know this.

Natassia

Two sides of the same coin. The government-dependent able-bodied poor are a symptom of our society’s moral decay, just as are the government-dependent able-bodied rich. You have the people at the bottom and the people at the top supporting the same politicians who steal from the people in the middle. We live in an immoral, self-indulgent, ungrateful, impatient society. We want what we want, and we want it now. Who cares about the future of our grand kids? It won’t affect us because we will be dead.

Hogwired

The biggest reason that groceries are becoming more expensive is because of the government paying for so much of them. Same reason that Medicare is taken advantage of. Government pays, so we can charge more…. Get what we can get…. Greed…

2Gary2

no its the parasitic private health insurance companies that are the reason healthcare is so expensive. The scum ceo needs that 5th home in the Hamptons.

Syrin

That answer is so simplistic that it highlights the full development of your mental capacity. Yeah, health insurance companies WROTE the Obamacare bill YOU voted for. Now defensive medicine costs $75-175 BILLION annually depending on which study you read. Oh, that’s HILARIOUS ! YOU ! READ STUDIES ?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHHA !!!

Ralfine

I am sure you don’t mean the insurance companies, their owners and shareholders, but instead the cleaning ladies at those companies who demand too high wages, right?

2Gary2

ignore syrin–he is retarded.

2Celia2

ignore 2Gary2–he is retarded.

2Celia2

Syrin was making a point that the insurance companies wrote the Obamacare bill. Quit with the Communist Marxist nonsense about cleaning ladies.

Ralfine

So, who is then profiteering from the bill?
The companies or their owners?
Note: a company is just a legal construct. A company cannot think or spend anything. There is always a human involved.

2Celia2

No, it’s big government entitlements like medicare that have flooded the health system with tax payers dollars that has caused the cost of healthcare to skyrocket. Costs were much lower when everyone paid cash for their healthcare. Doctors even made housecalls in the old days when they were paid in cash. Another factor in the skyrocketing cost of healthcare is the millions of illegals who use hospital emergency rooms for their health care which is all paid for by taxpayers. While the masses while the masses will be stuck with substandard care and long waits under Obamacare, Obama and his family, members of Congress, and the wealthy will have access to first class medical care.

2Gary2

you may want to go back to trading a couple of chickens with your doctor to pay for your health care but not me. When 21% of costs goes to private insurance overhead while medicare is barely 2% this proves you wrong.

mleblanc138

For over a year, I wondered about the mythical possibility of a “tax collapse” due to more and more good paying jobs being replaced with low paying jobs at the same time more and more people jump on the safety net. I guess it’s not so “mythical” after all, but actually coming in the near future.

K

Wow, had not realized how big the prisons for profit had become. Wonder how long before they will be trumping up charges, for people with the right skill set. Just what we need a profit motive to send someone to prison.We are truly a third world nation now.

liberranter

Wonder how long before they will be trumping up charges, for people with the right skill set.>/I>

You can bet that this is already happening.

2Gary2

Michael–when I see you put as much effort into condemning corporate welfare which is 100’s of times more than any welfare for the poor, I will start to take you seriously. Until then you are nothing but a right wing hack who gets their rocks off bashing poor people and blaming them for the ills of society all the while totally ignoring corporate welfare which is way bigger than any pitiful programs that may help the poor. And you call yourself a christian. You my friend are simply a christian in name only.

Syrin

100’s of times? No. Double, probably. This may be the first area of common ground we have.

2Gary2

Unbelievable–you agree to cut out all corporate welfare including taxpayers subsidizing low paid walmart/mcjobs employees with healthcare and food stamps and make the corp pay this. I could look at the safety net programs. There is between 3-5% abuse in these programs for the poor and this 3-5% needs to be addressed. With li9mited time I would go after corporate welfare first as that will give the most bang for the buck.

Mark

I think that Syrin would cut many of those programs. Our Founding Fathers warned us about making the poor to comfortable in their poverty. There is nothing in our Constitution that gives the government the power to give out free health care or food for that matter. Since I realize that these programs are here, we need to make real cuts to get our borrowing and printing under control. We do need to cut corporate welfare in many areas. Why don’t you list some of them other than what a business does not wish to spend on. Let’s bring up direct government payments or deductions that you do not like. That would be a good start. We might find some common ground.

2Gary2

force walmart to pay living wages so the tax payers do not have to subsidize their low wage model.

Most military is corporate welfare.

GE and their ilk paid no taxes.

Make corporations actually pay their fair share. This is the lowest level of corporate funding of the gov ever.

I could go on etc.

Mark

GE is friends with Obama. Their CEO is a bud with Obama. Gary, a lot of businesses pay low wages. If you raise the min. wage up every thing else gets more expensive. A lot of the profits are made in other countries and the corporations pay taxes on their profits there. Do we tax then twice before they pay out to the shareholders. If you do that they might leave for greener pastures and take mores jobs with them.

2Gary2

I do not care who is friends with who. The amount of taxes corporations pay is at record lows as compared to how much of gov they used to fund. Was about 40% now it is 9%. Corp are not under taxed. Raising min wage does not loose jobs. This is proven false.

2Celia2

2Gary2 doesn’t care that his hero Obama and the Democrats are bought and paid for by rich CEOs like Warren Buffett and Jeffrey Immelt from GE? Why do you think that certain corporations like GE pay little to no corporate taxes? It’s obvious that 2Gary2 is a brainwashed slave on the Democrat entitlement plantation.

2Gary2

as I said above (you can read right?) I mean tax all the rich and corporations regardless of left/right leanings or who is friends with Obama.

2Gary2

almost all corporations try to externalize as much of their costs as possible. Time to make them pay the FULL cost.

Beezh

Gary, it is OK for you to disagree with Michael’s politics. It is not OK to judge and question his faith. Who appointed you to do that? Why do you spend so much time posting on this blog if you disagree so vehemently with what Michael writes? I hope that soon, you will learn to think and act like a gentleman. I would not blame Michael if he ends up banning you from posting here. Please at least stay within the boundaries of decency.

2Gary2

by your fruits you will know them–Michael is showing a ton of rotten spoiled fruit with his constant poor bashing and corporate worshiping.

2Celia2

by your fruits you will know them–2Gary2 is showing a ton of rotten spoiled fruit with his constant rants about being a helpless victim. He parrots whatever he hears from the Obama news media. The Democrat entitlement plantation just want the votes of people like 2Gary2 while they live like royalty at the expense of taxpayers.

liberranter

SERIOUSLY, folks, why is ANYONE giving Gary the time of day? He’s a pathetic troll who feeds on the unmerited attention that his carefully-crafted ignorance gains him when he scrawls it across the blog. The surest way to make him STFU and go away is to ignore him.

‘Nuff said.

Orange Jean

AGREED!

2Gary2

typical conservative–can’t argue the merits so you call names. This is good and we will keep winning elections as the GOP is the Gray Old Party.

2Gary2

what time is it?? Can you give me the time today???what a dolt

2Gary2

I am pointing out Michaels many shortcomings in order to make him be better. He is WAY smarter than to believe some of the crap he writes. He is simply sucommed to needing viewers of his web sites so he trows out red meat to all the low information conservatives and is probably sitting back laughing at the stupidity of the average conservative.

RICHARD

Like I have said on so many blogs, You can blame the government on this. Congress, the Senate, and the President. When they signed N.A.F.T.A. into law we were finished.

MeMadMax

Much deeper than that. NAFTA is a symptom of when the gov’ment abandoned their responsibility of protecting government spending, see: 1913, the inception of the Fed.

tim

NAFTA is chump change compared to unrestricted immigration and no duties on imports from Communist China.

2Gary2

The rich are the real takers–they own the government and make sure it works extremely well for them. The money for the bailouts was found in a long weekend but nothing but cuts for programs for the poor.

Syrin

Again, the intellectual laziness and immaturity shines through. Tell me how your local cardiologist owns the gov’t. Wall Street executives and bankers? Yeah, they own the gov’t, but you’re too lazy and greedy to make the distinction.

2Gary2

Through the AMA they pass onerous medical licensing requirements that severely limit competition. The hospital they practice is a result of overbuilding that they deregulated. I could go on but if I write more than a simple sentence you won’t get it anyway.

Mark

Gary, big government passes onerous laws all the time. Are you saying that big government should be regulated. I don’t see that happening as the congress crooks keep expanding the size and scope of the federal government.They keep buying goodies for themselves and their voters.

2Gary2

I think you missed my point

Mark

I did not miss your point. Just like the AMA passes rules to regulate doctors, the government backs the AMA up with more rules. Gary, do you really think our government works? You did not seem to think so the other day.

2Gary2

IMO–the size of government is not important, its whether or not it is effective. Your saying big government is using the frank luntz right wing talking points. Same when you say entitlements or death tax. They are really earned benefits and an estate tax that will not touch 99.9% of the population.

2Gary2

Michael–the red states are the welfare hogs–they get back way more than they put in. Guess in your right wing hackeness you “left” that out.

Syrin

Interesting myth. One third of ALL welfare recipients live in California alone. I guess you’re as color blind as you are stupid.

Silvermoney5

California is blue and is one of the welfare states and is a financial disaster. San Francisco also banned the selling of gold fish. I guess the little fish have feelings and rights too. Nut jobs are running the country.

0UTS1DER

And they weren’t before? It’s not about political parties you guys – it’s so much larger than that.

Michael–I think you need to lay off the frankincense and myrrh. They are not meant to smoke.

On another note–could one heat their home with brimstone?

Syrin

I’m sure if they were smoke-able or inject-able you would have tried it then posted about how you were somehow entitled to your neighbor’s car.

Mondobeyondo

Sure, you can definitely save a few bucks on the heating bill! However… the side effects of burning brimstone, or burning IN brimstone… no thank you!

2Gary2

even if I properly vent said brimstone?

Dr. Möbias

You’ve lost.

Now take your little hammer, your little sickle and your scary little red sign with a fist on it, and go home.

Dirty Dave

One thing your not including are people like me who make 10 dollars an hour and work full time to support a family of three. I also qualify for food stamps. Sounds like corporate welfare is worse than social welfare.

Ralfine

Yes, you are right.

But the right-wing people will tell you it was your fault to have more children than you can take care of (while at the same time condemning contraception and preaching abstinence).

Or maybe you should work longer, and leave your children alone at home?

Maybe your wife should work, too? But then she can’t stay home to take care of the kids?

corporate welfare is 100’s of times more than welfare for the poor. I would even go so far as to say 70% of the military cost is corporate welfare.

2Celia2

No, 2Gary2 is making up stuff again. The majority of the taxes spent in the U.S. goes for entitlements like Medicare, foodstamps, or some other form of government assistance. Almost 53 percent of the population is now living on the bankrupt Democrat entitlement plantation. We have entire generations of families living in cities like Chicago who have been on welfare for decades.

2Gary2

Just because you keep repeating right wing lies about earned benefits this does not make them anymore true.

You can simply Google to see I am correct.

Syrin

The tipping point has been reached. The parasites like GARY outnumber the host, are killing the host, and blame the host for their problems. Eventual the host will use it’s immune system to rid itself of the millions of parasites.

Ralfine

People like Gary are inconvenient, but the parasites are called shareholder – they don’t work but get paid.

Many of them don’t even invest in a company, they just get their shares at the poker game.

as you can see most conservatives have the IQ of a carrot stick on a good day.

2celia2

As you can see, 2Gary2 is a lazy delusional Obama slave living on the Democrat entitlement plantation. He collects his welfare checks paid for by taxpayers and he just parrots whatever he hears from the Obama news media.

Louise in MO

Who’s the stupid one here? You completely waste your time here when you could be out helping the poor, the elderly and the disabled. You could also go to New Jersey and New York and help out there. You could also volunteer to clean up the environment.

tim

Apparently you lost your brains at that poker game.

Ralfine

Well, I don’t gamble. No poker, no stock market, no gold. Just concrete, cellulose, glass for a warm beautiful home.

Peter_Grynch

Your ignorance of economics is exceeded only by the size of your ego. Don’t try to think, you will only hurt yourself.

JoeD

They teach it in every business school in America today: the purpose of the corporation is to maximize shareholder value. It has only been within the last few decades that this has been the case, everyone has been copying Jack Welsh’s success for the last thirty years.

The thirst for short-term profits and higher stock prices above all other considerations pretty much made it a requirement that as much productive work as possible would have to be sent elsewhere, especially given the fact that the US government has enacted policies that openly encourage free trade.

The “takers” are the ones out there taking their ridiculous profits on the backs of the American consumer without returning the favor in the form of decent paying jobs to ensure that the economy can sustain itself. Shoot, they are now as dependent on government dependents spending their government cheese in order to keep the whole sham going. Judging by the lackluster holiday sales results, however, it appears the party may be ending soon.

The fact that the number of dependents outnumbers the number of private-sector employees in so many states is merely a symptom of the disease.

Ralfine

Yes, the shareholders are sucking the economy dry, and when the company cannot pay anymore they cry for the government to help – to assign more taxpayers’ money to bail them out.

Better would be for the government to buy shares in the company and to sack the inept top management.

Let the second and third level handle the company. They are closer to the customers anyway.

And, if the shareholders can take profit, they surely should be held responsible for the cost of winding the company down – each according to his share in the company.
That money must come from their private property, and if they can’t pay, they shall work their debt off – building sewage canals and infrastructure, streets and railways, coastal defenses, flood protection.

sharonsj

Actually, you are right–but it’s called corporate welfare. Something the right likes to avoid discussing. So much easier to blame the poor, old and disabled for our problems. Meanwhile, if it wasn’t for taxpayer money (and the imaginary money created by the Fed) those private businesses would collapse.

Louise in MO

I don’t know who you have been listening to because no one I’ve read or heard blames the poor, the old and the disabled for the country’s financial problems. It’s excessive government spending or porkbarrel spending that is the problem.

To say that we don’t like giving to the poor, the elderly or the disabled is a bold face lie! People on the right far OUTGIVE the left to charities of all types.

Because we choose to give to charitties that actually help people rather than the spotted owl you cast dispersions. What you have done with your continual attempts to bad mouth people’s individual choices you have created class warfare, gender warfare, and political warfare.

You might think you have won a battle, but you definitely won’t win the war! You can take to the bank…oh I guess you can’t do htat because you don’t like bankers.

I find it amazing that in spite of Obama bailing out banks in his first term in office, you folks ran out and gladly embraced him for the second time.

Get a grip and get a life.

Louise in MO

Parasites are those who never want to work who take money from those who do work and expect them to be happy to do so ..indefinitely.

Ralfine

You just described shareholders and congressmen.

Mondobeyondo

Rest on your laurels, and sleep among the poppies.

China knows this. Several other countries are waking up to that reality as well. We are not doomed, not yet. But time is running out, fast.

Ralfine

Looks like your private sector is sh*t. Should you take those companies to task?
Maybe some companies in the green sector are waiting for clear directions from the government?

You cannot fix an economy by using Communist Marxist collectivist policies that have failed everywhere they’ve been tried such as Cuba and the Soviet Union. Eventually the governing elite runs out of other people’s money after running up debts that can never be repaid. Then the country goes bankrupt and defaults on their debt.

Ralfine

Can you at least try to explain what you mean without using just some slogans you have read somewhere?

To start, please explain what you understand under “collectivist”.

Dr. Möbias

Where does one begin with such a pathetic, ignorant statement?

You’re out of your league here, son. You’re making a fool of yourself here and best quit while you’re ahead.

Thread exit is that way ——>

Mark

You are so right Dr.

liberranter

He’s a Brit (and ignorant to boot), so he doesn’t know any better

Ralfine

Talking about ignorance. LOL

2Celia2

Ralfine knows all about being ignorant and arrogant. Gay Nazis tend to be that way.

tim

Bush wasn’t running idiot, and the recession was caused by Clinton’s Community Housing initiative which created the housing bubble.

Ralfine

Come on, wake up.
The recession is a classical over production crisis.
The wages are not high enough for people to participate on the market.
Factories continue to produce. Retailers continue to import. They produce/import more than they can sell, so they invent consumer credits. And sub-prime mortgages.

Everything’s fine as long as there are no unexpected events.
Then the fuel price rises from $28 per barrel to over $120. Now, people have trouble to repay the loans. They default.

And the beautiful card house collapses.

Banks start keeping their money, so that they don’t risk bancruptcy. The only place where to get money is from the state.

One reason why the default in the 1920s resulted in depression was the unavailability of liquidity.

Therefore to avert a full blown depression, the governments printed even more money.

There you are.

Now, to get out of this crisis, the best way would be to increase wages. Start with the lowest wages and salaries as the recipients will pump the money immediately back into the economy.

(Even in this crisis the profits were rising, so rising wages won’t destroy the economy, they’d just put a dent into profits.)

Mark

The Fed is scared to death of wages going up as that will start high inflation. Interest rates will go up and it is game over for the US debt at interest rates of around 6%.They will lose total control.This is not just a recession, it is a debt bomb blowing up in our faces. You do not understand interest to be paid “Interest never sleeps nor sickens nor dies… Once in debt,
interest is your companion every minute of the day and night; you cannot shun
it or slip away from it; you cannot dismiss it; it yields neither to
entreaties, demands or orders; and whenever you get in it’s way or cross it’s
course or fail to meet its demands, it crushes you.”

By printing more dollars and borrowing, the days of pain are being put off for a short time. It will only get worse the longer we wait to a the piper.

Ralfine

Inflation isn’t caused by wages going up.

Better read up some on macroeconomics.

2Celia2

No, inflation in this country will be caused by government overspending that has resulted in trillions of dollars of debt that cannot possibly ever be repaid. The U.S. is borrowing heavily from countries like China to pay the interest on that debt and the Federal Reserve Bank is printing more and more paper money that isn’t backed by anything such as gold or real sustainable economic growth.

Ralfine

Yes, inflation is closely related to M2.

Now you just need to ask what the money was used for.

My guess: Freedom. War against terror. Homeland Security. War against Iraq and Afghanistan.

All initiated not by Obama, but by the Republicans under GWB.

2Celia2

No, they never wanted to work. They are lazy Obama slaves living on the Democrat entitlement plantation. They want subsidized food, subsidized housing, Obama phones, bus passes, etc. all paid for by hardworking taxpayers. Big cities like Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York are filled with dependent people who have been on the Democrat entitlement plantation for generations.

The “cancer” is the fact that too many people are still hung up on the false “liberal-conservative,” “Demopublican/Republicrat,” “Left-Right” dichotomies.

Bottom line: STATISTS of any professed ideological belief, people who think that it is government’s responsibility to “take care of” the citzenry, are the “disgusting cancer” that is at the root of the whole problem.

Ralfine

Don’t call them conservatives.

They don’t conserve the environment.
They don’t conserve jobs.
They don’t conserve life.

In fact, they suck the economy dry, park their money in a British dependence called Cayman Islands, and are therefore responsible for America’s destruction.

2Gary2

agreed.

I should call the conservatives the traitorous scum that they are. They are ruining this country by taking us back to the 1800’s

Louise in MO

2Gary2

Well, nothing has changed. You are as nuts as you were the last time you posted.

I’ve been attempting to show people at Keep America At Work why more people are getting dependent on the government and they can’t seem to grasp it as all of their responses are that there are plenty of jobs out there

Evelyn Isis Osiris Baha Allah

Seem like the tables have truly turned … big bankers, big insurance companies … big takers and spenders of the people’s money … are now on the other end of the stick …

Now after the said oppressing government have expected the PEOPLE to take care of THEM from their cradle to the grave … and NOW after these takers of this oppressing government having not only expected the people but also forced the people by laws …. to dig into their pockets and any savings and or any inheritance of their ancestors to pay-out even more in support of these oppressor’s extravagant ways of living … and now AFTER the oppressor’s selfish imposed economy is crumbling … and the givers become the takers … fowl play is called …

Maybe if the long term oppressing government would have took and spent less over the last hundred years … OR .. if the pharmaceutical big business would have used studies to heal the people instead of making a people sick as to fatten their own pocket books … OR … if big bankers would have decreased the intake of their greed and lessened the burdens of the people …. IF IF IF … the people would have been dealt fairly … the new-now-takers might still be the givers …

You don’t have to be a politician … to see that policies and their course of actions are unjust and unfair …

Gun stores are selling out of their inventory in a matter of minutes now. That means that there are people that won’t take the governments crap. Which also means their plans aren’t quite a done deal yet?

The Newest Minority

it is time for the minority to stop playing the game of lost.I have arrived at the breaking point and no longer wish to pay/play a loosing hand delt by the 535 goons from the hill

mulholland

Michael – it is much worse than this story claims. A fair number of private sector jobs, including mine, is essentially funded by tax revenue. I am a civil engineer and while I work for a private company, 99% of our work is for municipalities. Weather or not you belive we need new roads, water and wastewater infrastructure, bridges etc. is irrelevant. The planning, design and construction of those works is paid for with tax revenue, so I am essentially a taker. Extend this arguement to any business that contracts to a government or one that exists soley because of a regulation (e.g. many accountants and lawyers) and you can see that the taking is happening at many levels. Some of it clearly falls within what we expect from governments but it all must come from the same tax base. Only those who buy and sell to and from the private sector are truley “givers” and they keep us all afloat.

liberranter

Yes, Mulholland, that’s an EXCELLENT point. I would be that if you were to take even a cursory glance at the S&P 500, you’ll find that probably half or more of those firms derive the bulk of their earnings from some form of GOVERNMENT contracts (I know that this is exactly the case with my current employer). Quite frankly, if the government teet were to be snatched out of their mouths, most of these firms would collapse within 24 hours (and good riddance too!). Most of them are simply INCAPABLE of competing in a market environment.

liberranter

Sorry, make that “bet” at the beginning of the second sentence.

Mondobeyondo

Declining tax revenue is one of the reasons why so much of our infrastructure is falling apart. Without a strong tax base (good paying jobs), people can’t pay their property taxes. They’ll either foreclose on their property, or they will sell and move away. City services, such as police and fire departments, suffer as well. So do public schools, from kindergarten to high school.

http://www.facebook.com/jennifer.s.carlson.7 Jennifer Smith Carlson

Hey Michael: Look at the stats on the number of people with felonies and misdemeanors (add those together)and then subtract that number from those who are on foodstamps and then you will see the difference it could make if only we could get legislation on the books that would make ONLY THE MOST HEINOUS OF FELONIES searchable by potential employers. So many very eager and educated people are jobless not due to laziness but due to the discrimination of potential employers who will do nothing but throw their resumes in the trash every time due to convictions no matter how old they are. But if they couldn’t SEE or FIND any of those that are more than 5 years old for example, that would instantaneously help make millions of people suddenly far more employable. It wouldn’t help them explain why they haven’t been employed in 5 years or more, but it would at least give them a CHANCE at employment.

MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

That is a very good point Jennifer.

Michael

liberranter

Absolutely agree, given the fact too that more and more people are being arrested, railroaded through the disgraceful excuse of a “court” system, and slapped with stiff prison terms for committing NON-CRIMES (i.e., actions that do not harm the person or property of another – drug “crimes” being the prime example).

Of course there’s nothing “unintentional” about this, despite what many libertarian philosophers claim. After all, once one is imprisoned in Amerika, one essentially is stripped of one’s rights as a citizen FOR LIFE. Once one is stripped of one’s rights FOR LIFE, then that makes it awfully hard for one to assert oneself over government abuses. How convenient to TPTB that once someone has been “on the inside” (thank you, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and RIP), they are essentially under the Regime’s thumb for the rest of their lives.

Amy Willett

You would really need to think about it before you dismiss all drug crimes. Many are associated with aggravated robberies and burglaries, some murders too. Now theft of property and vandalism, even simple possession or dui (for non delivery jobs) I think should be invisible to most perspective employers. But I work in prison mental health so my view is different.

Mark

Why should the tax payers give food stamps to a person that has money in the bank? They should use up their own funds first.

Ralfine

Can’t you listen to your people? Nothing is wrong with Americans. Go on, continue as before. No need to change anything.

LOL

Maybe your government should by more guns, and maybe invade someone. How about Tuvalu? Should be easy enough. Not much resistance. Just don’t stay too long, or the sea will swallow you.

Mark

LOL, just what do you feel about the state of those living in London. You have way less freedom there than we have here. You guys are half the way to the bottom of the cliff. I sure would hate to live in a population as large as London when you hit the bottom.

Ralfine

Well, the UK is larger than London. Most industry is outside of London. IMHO, London is overrated. There are just embassies and financial institutions, and the queen.

2Gary2

then no one will buy milk and the price will come down–isn’t that the invisible hand of the market at work???

liberranter

That’s the threat that has been emanating from the Dairymensbund if they don’t get their renewed federal subsidies. Now would be the time to call their bluff and let them get a taste of the market. A couple of weeks of letting millions of gallons of raw milk spoil and go down the drain after the public says “F*** YOU!” to their eight-dollar-a-gallon milk will get them to change their tune fast.

davidmpark

Let’s look at the data… or just the data I have.

My wife is 80% nonfunctional due to a severe TBI. She has to see a minimum of 6 doctors per months and has a nurse here 5 hours a week. We also have three young children 10, 7, and 5. I have to work 20 hours maximum per week as I need to be here for her and to be “Mr. Mom”.

Now, SSDI only pays $640 per month. Most news reports claim that the average people get on disability is $1,100 per month. Food Stamps are $530 per month. We also get help from the LDS Church for some necessities. The in-laws own the property we rent from them at lower-than-market amount, and they rent out the basement to balance the expenses.

With my part-time income that makes about $1,100 per month to keep a family of 5 with high medical expenses comfortable.

We have found ways to keep expenses low. A week ago I used a sanitized needle and some old silk thread to suture myself. I often do my own medical treatments and do triage for the family to see when to take the to the doctors (as the kids are so annoyed of waiting rooms).

We tried growing a lot of our own food, but the neighbors as local politicians abused their positions to take our animals and ruin a lot of our crops. They constantly venture onto our property and go wherever they please to look for signs of innovation or production to punish us for it. Neighbors have set up a video camera on their property to record us. Police are usually outside the house these days. Not easy to put up with this oppression while trying to be a caretaker and father.

If there is one thing that could be done to help us, it’s to reign in zoning and allow us to care for ourselves without stealing it through confiscation or taxation. The opposite is what our reality is.

And how are they going to justify their actions before God? Just a thought.

Mark

These zoning laws are all part of Agenda 21. I have seen and delivered many food orders from the Church and you should be eating very well. If you live in town, keep on growing your garden in the back yard and don’t waste money trying to raise chickens. You might be able to get away with rabbits as they are low noise makers and stay in their cages.Don’t tell anyone about the rabbits. if you try this as they will try to bring up some stupid rule about them.

davidmpark

We tried rabbits. Even wrote Micheal a primer on raising them. Zoning regularly patrols our property and we have some nasty neighbors who don’t want people like us here.

Best thing to do is move away; I’d like the country. Can do it better out there, and the family loves the open spaces.

Orange Jean

David,
I want you to know I very much respect what you are doing for your wife and kids… so many guys would run off with those troubles. (I know something about TBI, because I work doing TBI surveillance, number crunching but hopefully helpful to the docs & other providers; at least I’ve been told it is by some of them). Difficult injury to deal with…. but they don’t yet know everything there is to know about it… I hope for you they may find better treatments and your sweetheart may get better one day. Keep u the good work, and I wish blessings upon you and your family.

~Orange Jean

davidmpark

Thanks Orange Jean; really appreciate it.

The TBI she has resulted in a Glasgow Coma Scale of 3: severe hematoma, epilepsy, and a progressive global aphisa. She has the ability and maturity of an 11 year old. We can only slow it down; hopefully she can live as much a fulfilling life as possible. But yes; it is slowly taking her life.

And I made a promise at that alter. It has mean something. I’m not leaving her; no matter the difficulty. Thanks again!

Choda Yoda

The Government wants us to go off the cliff so entitlements rise when the economy takes a downturn. This also slows down the velocity of money which keeps inflation artificially low. The Fed celebrates this so they can continue “QE unlimited” a little longer. They will take us to war (maybe civil war) right as the stagflation hits, what a fabulous disaster.

Mark

We are in stagflation now and the disaster is unfolding right in front of our eyes in slow motion.The real trouble will start when the film speed picks up and spins out of control. It would be nice to know the date when the speed switch gets flipped to high speed.

JW

So sorry to see that you keep on insisting on using the idea private enterprise. The idea is passe. There is an old term used I believe decades ago by the socialists or communists which offers a much better description of the current state of affairs. It is Industrial Feudalism. A pseudo feudal system in which great landed estates are replaced by giant corporations including the major money center banks and big media. As the feudal nobility had immense influence and control over the king, the industrial nobility of business has immense influence and control over the central government.

Big business, the money center banks, the media and the government are now part of one large, not entirely new understanding amongst themselves which I will call the New Aristocracy and whose organizational structure is this Industrial Feudalism. This aristocracy governs the country and as much of the world as it can reach for its own benefit.

It controls all opportunity for political or legal redress of grievances. Indeed it can define what is an acceptable grievance so it can exclude its own membership from condemnation and blame any others it deems suitable.

It controls the financial system and can issue money as it sees fit to purchase whatever it wants or needs and maintains the massive financial complexity we see today to hide its total control.

It is looting the country in the name of economic ideas it redefines on the fly for whatever is useful in the name. It has no commitment to employment, let alone full employment, nor any interest in the general welfare but is quite willing to blame all it has no need for as useless takers who are impeding its drive for universal prosperity.

It is committed to no purpose beyond its own aggrandizement. Its motto is profit without limit or purpose.

I would suggest to all who read this comment to look at the novel, “Atlas Shrugged”. While this missive by Ayne Rand has many faults it does offer a picture of today’s world that is far too close to the truth than one would expect from this writer. The businessmen such as James Taggert and Orin Boyle in that novel are in outlook much too close in character to the membership of the New Aristocracy for comfort.

The economic and social world that is slowly collapsing in the background throughout the entire story while the main characters pontificate is eerily reminiscent of today’s collapse. Political leaders are always promising solutions which never work. Despite all the efforts made to halt the decline it continues its destructive advance inexorably.

While there is much to obfuscate in the book anyone interested in today’s world should read it. Just put away the obsolete political terminology and look carefully at what is really happening as the story progresses.

As in the novel today’s public is left to make a living any way it can. The destitute have little time or reason to contemplate the niceties of the above article. To be without money is rather like being 100 feet underwater without any scuba gear. One needs to eat just as one needs to breathe and one cannot put either off very long. The idea that one can get a job just because one needs a job is truly fatuous and should have completely died in the Great Depression. “Taking” may be the only game in town.

So lets drop the talk about private enterprise and irresponsible takers. There is no private enterprise in America any more of any significance. Whatever the author might expect it to deliver in his mythology it cannot. It no longer exists and the public must simply shift for itself..

2Gary2

again you are being distracted by a nothing issue–focus on corporate welfare which is 100’s of times any junk food costs for the poor. Think bigger

The premise of people out of work being “takers” is just plain wrong. Many conservatives also became unemployed for the first time within the last two years under the “alleged” Obama economy and would MUCH PREFER to have a job than go through the humiliating experience of unemployment and general assistance.

In many communities the unemployment numbers are still above ten percent and that’s just the folks who still qualify … millions exhausted their benefits and are no longer counted. Be grateful you have a job .. many people would take anything right now but when three thousand people show up to apply for six openings that pay minimum wage .. there is obviously a huge problem that goes far beyond cliche’ and demonizing all who are hurting in this country is very short sighted .. not all welfare or unemployed people voted for Obama.

Thus says The Lord: Did you think My wrath would tarry forever?! Did you think My judgment sleeps?! Are My eyes closed to all these atrocities committed upon the earth, day and night, without ceasing?! Are My ears also stopped from hearing?!… Lo, I have seen and I have heard!

My face draws near to this earth!…

My eyes are filled with fire and fury!…

My forehead wrinkles, and is set hard against you,

O inhabitants of the earth!…

For it is time!

It is time to shake the cities of men by measure, and to bring up wrath from beneath! City by city shall be punished… One here and another there. Behold, it shall come upon them suddenly, and men shall fear, and with great perplexity shall their hearts fail!… A great trembling shall now come upon all people!…

THE TERROR OF THE LORD IS AT HAND!…

It shall come in swiftly, and you shall not know from where it shall come!

It shall come upon city after city, without warning!

For I have caused the earth to become angry. Lo, the depths of the earth tremble at My nearness, and soon this planet shall rage!… It shall rage against you, O deceitful generation! It shall devour and consume this generation!… Scouring from the earth all man has made!

The Scriptures do not lie! And My prophets speak, yet the people refuse to hear!… They will not listen. Even My own people will not believe, yet their belief is not at all required… For My will is set, and can in no wise be turned back! The truth of My Word stands! It speaks throughout the generations and echoes throughout eternity!…

For I AM THE LORD!… YaHuWaH!…I am EL Shaddai!…And I shall surely perform all I have spoken.

I shall not cease, nor relent, nor shall I be turned back from My purpose!… The kingdoms of men must die! And the evil of men must be destroyed!… All must be wiped away!

Peoples of the earth, you have hated life!

You have polluted MY garden!

DISEASED AND AWFUL GENERATION,

YOU HAVE DESTROYED THE GARDEN!…

And so I am come to cleanse! And to wipe away!…

I am come down!…

MY FACE IS VERY NEAR!

Do you feel the heat of My wrath, O ignorant and vain peoples?!… You retain no knowledge at all! Only greed and wickedness, wickedness upon wickedness, passes before your eyes without ceasing… And oh how you love to have it so!

DEAD GENERATION! Your hearts are stone!… Day after day you build up wrath, the vessels overflow! Day by day, the bodies are stacked up in heaps! Day by day, the unborn are slaughtered!… Whole generations of people murdered without cause! Multitudes of innocent cast off as refuse!… Yet you think Me too harsh, and My punishments too severe, My judgments unfair?!

I AM THE LORD, AND THIS IS MY EARTH!

THESE ARE MY CHILDREN!…

All you see, from the ground beneath your feet

To the farthest reaches of the universe, is MINE!…

And I shall do as I please!

I shall do according to the counsel of My own will…

For I am God!

Therefore, O peoples of the earth, because you have slaughtered the innocent and murdered your neighbor… Lo, you have even made for yourselves laws, that all may do their pleasure in unrighteousness and perform evil at their leisure… So then shall I also declare MY Law, and it shall fall hard upon the backs of all nations!

Yea, I have put forth the decree, and hasten to carry out your sentences, O peoples of the earth! And what is the sentence, you ask?… Look upon the slaughtered innocent, look upon their torn and broken bodies… Behold how they are torn in pieces! See how their blood pours down and their limbs are strewn about!… LOOK!!! Look how they are scraped out of their mother’s womb!… Look upon the works of your hands, you evil and most wicked generation!… LOOK UPON YOUR WICKEDNESS!!! LOOK UPON ALL YOU HAVE DONE!

THE TIME HAS COME!

Hear the WORD of the LORD spoken to THIS modern generation!

free at:

TrumpetCallofGodonline . com

Nexusfast123

Yawn….

Rob

My state, AL, is listed as one of those states. However, I think it is due to all the engineering jobs supporting NASA and the Army in Huntsville, which is not “quite” the same thing as welfare. Still, when the crash comes, they lose their jobs.

John

As a public university engineering professor, I wonder where people would consider that I fall – maker or taker? I do get to train many Americans for government jobs for defense contractors and foreigners for jobs in China and India – with our latest technology. And I am heavily pressured by my superiors to obtain grants from the Feds, so they can get their cut. There aren’t that many private employers left in America that need my expertise or my product (engineering graduates) who are not tied to the U.S. government. But what else do I do, quit? Then a non-U.S citizen will likely be hired to replace me and do what I am doing now.

Nexusfast123

The real scary thing is that interest rates are abnormally low. If they were to rise the impact of on debt payments would be significant.

Mondobeyondo

This was not how it used to be in the past. We did not become the great nation we are (were?) by becoming takers instead of doers.

If Abraham Lincoln were born in 2009 instead of 1809…

– his family would receive food stamps
– his family might qualify for an FHA or HOA loan or Section 8 housing
– they could qualify for farm subsidies
– Abe would be enrolled in public school until the age of 18
– Mom and Dad might be eligible for Medicare/Medicaid

Yet somehow they survived. Don’t know how the Lincoln family made it.

Jts

Can you please define “government dependents.”. Does this include government employees?

highlanderjuan

The reasonable man would answer your question ‘yes.’

michael

Funny no one is talking about corporate welfare and tax breaks for them, or how these elitest corporate scum drag our jobs over seas and enslave nations. Then bring those products back here teriff free tax free, and we consume these s#it products.let us not include the subsidies the government gives these pigs at the cost of the tax payers. Lets let them piss down our back and say its raining. But lets not say we should make our own national currency, but print more worthless money. Ya! We need private banking interests to create our currency. And fascist government corporations to collapse our country by outsoursing. The american worker is becoming obsolete as our corporate fascist government will not allow prosperity or a valued legal tender. Everything is turning private even our money making once we realise this fact maybe we can overcome our own slavery.

V

The dependency is a symptom, not a root cause. Do people actually believe people on the dole chose to be on it or like it. Some may, but very few … it is a life of barely scraping by.

Hammerstrike

When welfare recipients outnumbers private workers, you can´t pin it all down on those evil corporatons.

“When the people find they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” George Washington

Akshat

If the entire chain is shutting down then it will cause a major drop for usa government jobs.

http://www.facebook.com/hwhack Helmuth Hack

Blame the victim! I am sure Mike approves of this. If it wasn’t for the greed of a few, the many wouldn’t be suffering. Hopefully before it is to late, Mike will get a clue about our system and divert his attention from the poor to the rich where blame belongs.

Joy Halbrook

politicians are the cancer, but heres what you need to know both my daughter and I work, but because my soon to be ex husband removed me from his health coverage, which is illegal, I am on the so called welfare health care. I would be more then happy to pay for my insurance but I am the only other employee besides my boss, and he has no plans to offer me health care anytime soon. I only qualify for this coverage because I have medical problems. If I didnt have them I wouldnt qualify for them. People think by cutting taxes for the rich we will make more jobs, thats not true, we need to start taxing companies that dont use workers in the US I have verizon phone service I have had to call them several times in the past two weeks I never get anyone that is located in the US, if I ask they will transfer me to an American agent. This is part of the problem, Also we need to raise minimum wage for everyone even wait staff at restaurants, did you know that Ihop only pays their employees 2.35 an hour because in the 80s some idiot made a deal with the food industry that they would never raise the waitresses bottom pay. So that means that your server is getting screwed this might be why in some places you get crappy service.