PlayStation Meeting 2016

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Design wise it really does look like a PS 4.5. The price is good and specs are still being kept under wraps. Presumably it will be what the leaked specs were (4.2 TF). Overall, given it'll be out this year, it should gain some healthy margin over Scorpio.

Personally, given I already have a PS4, I am pondering whether I get the Pro or wait for Scorpio which MS claims will be a 6TF system, i.e almost an entire PS4 level of computational difference between Scorpio and the PS4 base model.

Wow they really love the 400$ price tag don't they? I do not have 4K HDR TV and TBH not interested. If games have better aa and texture filtering and run with no fps drop, torn frames I might be interested. Need to see how game look and performance on HDTV compared to PS4.

Otherwise I will wait. It will probably get a 50$ price drop when Xbone 2 is launched next year.

[quote=i-Lo]Design wise it really does look like a PS 4.5. The price is good and specs are still being kept under wraps. Presumably it will be what the leaked specs were (4.2 TF). Overall, given it'll be out this year, it should gain some healthy margin over Scorpio.

Personally, given I already have a PS4, I am pondering whether I get the Pro or wait for Scorpio which MS claims will be a 6TF system, i.e almost an entire PS4 level of computational difference between Scorpio and the PS4 base model.[/quote]

I think both with have similar issues that stem from the games necessity to support both systems. You'll get the cross-gen effect which spans the entire life of the console instead of just the first year. Nothing fully taking advantage of the extra power. Just a buffed up version of something you could have played fine on the "lesser model"

Horizon looked stunning as ever. Show was badly paced and boring. Console feels a little pointless. PSVR os my sony purchase of the year, and if my PS4 kicks the bucket. Only then will i jump into the pro (seriously. Why is everything called pro now?)

I just heard this doesn't support 4k Blu-ray playback, i wonder if this will get patched later on.

Posted by AnthonM2So no 1080p/60fps option? useless, the problem most PS4 games have frame rate issues, I think now it's time to buy a PC and forget about consoles.

Assuming the Pro model is actually targeting a native 4k and not an internal 1440p res. If it is native then i would actually say it's pretty decent value for baseline 4k gaming. people actually assumed 6 T-flops still wouldn't be enough for 4k gaming and sony actually showed a couple titles with 4.2 T-flops. (assuming they're 4k) makes me now wonder if Scorpio could do Andromeda in 60fps.

I'm almost certain all those games were upscaled, or using a level of upscaling with a mix of raw processing power, rather than processing 4K with raw power alone.

A GTX 1080 at 9 TFs of processing power is still not enough for 4K gaming in most modern AAA titles, you need 2 GTX 1080 in Sli for this.

So no, PS4 Pro will not magically do with its 4.2 TFs of processing power what 2 GTX 1080 in Sli do with 18 TFs of processing power. I honestly can't say what Sony is doing with PS4 Pro, or what other developers are doing with PS4 Pro versions of their games, but if a single GTX 1080 isn't enough to max Deus Ex: Mankind Divided on PC at 1080p resolution, I just don't see this same game running at 4K with similar settings on PS4 Pro without being upscaled.

I guess Square Enix could always lower the quality, but even at the quality of the PS4 version, DE:MD would still need 4x that GPU raw processing power to do 4K. Since Mark Cerny himself said the PS4 Pro's GPU is twice more powerful than PS4's GPU, I just don't see it being anything other than upscaling.

4K resolution is extremely expensive, it can bring any kind of hardware to its knees. Even watching a 4K video at 60fps is very demanding on a PC, the best way anyone can think of how stressful 4K gaming is on a specific hardware is to imagine that hardware running 4 (FOUR!) versions of the same game at the same time.

It's not exactly like this, but it serves to give an idea of how taxing 4K gaming is, it's brutally taxing. I doubt even Scorpio will be able to do "true" 4K gaming at 6 TFs when a GTX 1080 at 9 TFs can't, even after taking into account the low level optimization consoles have.

A GTX 1080 ran DOOM with Vulkan - much faster than DirectX 11 or 12 - at near 200fps at 1080p resolution, if one were to divide that framerate by 4 when increasing resolution 4 times over - again, it doesn't exactly work like this, but gives an idea - it would be nearly 50fps. And that's with Vulkan, which already makes the game even faster than DirectX.

After that, you still need to account that even though running at 4K, these games would still be using 1080p resolution assets like textures, shadow maps, etc. When doing proper 4K you would ideally also increase these to 4K resolution in order to not have low resolution or blurry shadows on a 4K game, which would increase the taxing on the hardware.

Just 4K Textures alone can be in the GBs of size, many games have optional downloads for higher quality textures like Far Cry: Primal, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Siege, Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor, etc. And while these would be using mostly the GPU's Video RAM, they still use more processing power.

Here's an excerpt from the official description of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Siege's Ultra HD Texture Pack on Steam:

"The Rainbow Six Siege team put a lot of effort to try to deliver a solid and scalable experience to the PC community, so those of you running a 4 GB GPU will still be able to enjoy this texture pack from 1080p to 1440p resolutions.

Those of you with the high-end 6+ GB GPUs, you will be able to play the game in sharp 4K resolution, along with these Ultra-HD textures under standard lighting and shading options.

Last but not least, for those of you with the MEGA PCs with dual GPUs and with more than 6 GB of video ram, you will be able to run 4K, with the Ultra-HD textures, and with the highest settings of lighting and shading which take advantage of tech like displacement mapping."

You can see that above the "standard lighting and shading options", even a GPU with 6 GBs of Video RAM isn't enough. And PS4 Pro only has 8 GBs of memory for the whole system, including the GPU.

Right now, true 4K gaming is for people with 2 or more high-end GPUs in Sli, or for old or technically weak demanding-wise titles with Nvidia's DSR technology, where one can increase the resolution to 4K without worrying about how stressful it is on the hardware.

Even VR with its 90-120fps framerate requirements is already a lot more than what PS4 and XB1 can handle, unless one plays very simple games both visually and physics wise.

Sorry if this post became too long, I just wanted to explain very clearly what 4K gaming is and what it isn't to you or anyone else that happens to read this, as well as what one should reasonably expect from PS4 Pro and XB1 Scorpio.

"According to a press release sent out moments after the conference by Sony Interactive Entertainment, a small footnote states that PS4 Pro’s “4K quality images” as described, will only be made possible by “graphic rendering or up-scaled” means — indicating that the console’s 4K visuals are not native."

jeez well i guess that was pretty short lived. the presentation looked pretty solid. so the bottom line is - It's $400, it plays all of the games with some extra enhancements. However It does not necessarily do PS4 games in 4k, but the console can theoretically render 4k content. i'm guessing with maybe the indie titles. on top of this it doesn't support 4k blu-ray playback, at the moment i'm guessing.

So it was like I was saying, I just couldn't think of any other way in which PS4 Pro or even XB1 Scorpio could do true 4K gaming. It had to be upscaled, unless the game was on the technical level of Life is Strange, Ori and the Blind Forest, a Telltale Games' game, etc.

These games can be processed at 4K with weak hardware, Life is Strange for example, can be run at 4K@60fps with just a single GTX 960, which is incredible.

But also shows how little the game taxes the hardware, in other words it's not a visually pretty game, which no matter how much I love it, I still admit it looks like a PS2 game, though it's saved by the art style somewhat.

Posted by radsyso is it true that the scorpio is better console than the neo ???

True but not really surprising. I don't think Sony has really committed to killing the generation model like Microsoft has though. If they're not going to cycle their hardware as frequently it will be hard to keep up. The real question is: does it actually matter? It'll be a while before we know for sure.

@ Sdarts
well rendering PC content in 4k is actually a little more complex of a task. Do to the factor of dealing with lesser compressed data, or newly released features like VXAO, tessellation levels, yada yada. so the question shouldn't necessarily be "could it handle PC games in 4k" but merely "it's own". with regular budget games anyways. I was thinking since console games do have a level of optimization or trade-offs, it would be able to sustain at it's normal 30 fps. but it would seem that's not even the case.

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If MS has done their math homework correct, they would have enough power for XB1 games in 4k and maybe even in 60fps too. they ditched the 32 mbs of ESram that bottlenecked the XB1 in favor for an unspecified quantity of higher bandwidth memory. Memory has a huge role it seems for texture data and frame buffer. memory is also cheaper too, well nowadays.

Posted by GunsnSwords@ Sdarts
well rendering PC content in 4k is actually a little more complex of a task. Do to the factor of dealing with lesser compressed data, or newly released features like VXAO, tessellation levels, yada yada. so the question shouldn't necessarily be "could it handle PC games in 4k" but merely "it's own". with regular budget games anyways. I was thinking since console games do have a level of optimization or trade-offs, it would be able to sustain at it's normal 30 fps. but it would seem that's not even the case.

-----------------------

If MS has done their math homework correct, they would have enough power for XB1 games in 4k and maybe even in 60fps too. they ditched the 32 mbs of ESram that bottlenecked the XB1 in favor for an unspecified quantity of higher bandwidth memory. Memory has a huge role it seems for texture data and frame buffer. memory is also cheaper too, well nowadays.

4K, HDR is BS. 1080P with more details and no fps drop is what most of us need. If it simply plays Xbone games at 4K 30fps and some at 60fps with same settings I am not sure people are going to go out and buy 4K HDR for it. Definitely I am not getting simply because of 4K, HDR.

Posted by GunsnSwords"According to a press release sent out moments after the conference by Sony Interactive Entertainment, a small footnote states that PS4 Pro’s “4K quality images” as described, will only be made possible by “graphic rendering or up-scaled” means — indicating that the console’s 4K visuals are not native.".

they said that in the presser itself. that consoles aren't there yet to brute force 4k. scorpio will be no different unless they go really big (form factor) and really expensive. i mean, titan's struggle with 4k native output in a lot of games. if you're expecting scorpio to achieve 4k @ 60 fps you're in for a shock. lol

That statement is kinda vague anyway. It doesn't really say "No 4K" if you read the actual press release.

Posted by KORNdogthey said that in the presser itself. that consoles aren't there yet to brute force 4k. scorpio will be no different unless they go really big (form factor) and really expensive. i mean, titan's struggle with 4k native output in a lot of games. if you're expecting scorpio to achieve 4k @ 60 fps you're in for a shock. lol

Why would they be aiming for 60 fps? Who expects that? Are you just inventing specs to make it more unobtainable?

Scoprio is considerably more powerful than PS4 Pro, and it doesn't take a Titan to do 4K/30fps with console-like settings in TW3. I don't think anyone here suggested Scorpio was going to run TW3 at 4K/60. And that's a pretty high end piece of software. A 6TF could run quite a few games @ 4K/30fps.

Posted by GriftGFXWhy would they be aiming for 60 fps? Who expects that? Are you just inventing specs to make it more unobtainable?

Scoprio is considerably more powerful than PS4 Pro, and it doesn't take a Titan to do 4K/30fps with console-like settings in TW3. I don't think anyone here suggested Scorpio was going to run TW3 at 4K/60. And that's a pretty high end piece of software. A 6TF could run quite a few games @ 4K/30fps.

Castle Crashers? You can't avoid hyperbole, can you?

i was responding to gunsnswords who had this to say:

"If MS has done their math homework correct, they would have enough power for XB1 games in 4k and maybe even in 60fps too"

Melmoth
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