Hmm.. I like that idea of spreading out the upgrades on the lesser items, less chance of wasting valor on something that gets upgraded immediately afterwards. In my case I also know that I won't see loot from other than the first 3 ToTN bosses for a few weeks, so I'm going to look at the loot tables and first hit the slots that likely won't see a replacement soon.

That means I probably will upgrade my 502 weapon, since I won't see a normal drop except for the chance of a shared-boss drop until at least Tortos or ideally Durumuu. Won't touch trinkets since those come from Jink and Council.

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

Fenrìr wrote:I'm interested to know if they're going to reset valor or not. I know they said they were thinking about it, but nothing to state either way yet.

They didn't in 5.1 nor in 5.2, with both the introduction of Item Upgrades in 5.1, and new valor gear in 5.2. So why should they in 5.3?

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

If you have ever checked your vengeance values, they never actually reached that much if you are not using some sort of "clever use of game mechanic".

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

There is something so deliciously ironic about that, seeing as what we were all told (all the tank classes) was that Active Mitigation was where the future was.

It just happens that ours can be really powerful under certain conditions.

?

Aside from, maybe, contriving some odd situation wherey ou need the buff while not being able to attack something, it was pointed out fairly early that ShoR being flat physical reduction makes it a universal bar even when it comes to things we're not supposed to stand in. It wasn't even really surprising when ShoR allowed for "stand in Attenuation lol" and stuff like that.

The problem is really that you have some things which don't really translate nearly as well. Relying on SD for Snapping Bite (which ignores Armour) still leaves a pretty hefty EH requirement on 25H, for example.

If you have ever checked your vengeance values, they never actually reached that much if you are not using some sort of "clever use of game mechanic".

It's msotly the auxiliary abilities that use Vengeance-scaling anyway. ShoR, SB, SD, etc. don't care about AP. Monks MIGHT be hit a bit harder because of their greater reliance on stuff like Guard. And of course, if brushing the cap becomes the norm, DK's pull ahead slightly because Death Strike doesn't actually work off Vengeance - just damage taken.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Worldie wrote:If you have ever checked your vengeance values, they never actually reached that much if you are not using some sort of "clever use of game mechanic".

I usually end up at around 400k vengeance near the end tanking Ra-den 10. This change would pretty much halve my vengeance there. It also happens frequently on add heavy fights (Empress adds, Wind Lord, multiple adds on Lei Shen, Horridon, etc.)

I'm guessing there are add heavy fights in T16 and this is just so that we don't get a repeat of Wind Lord.

Definitively something everyone will notice and will make prot palas underpowered comparing to other tanks.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Worldie wrote:If you have ever checked your vengeance values, they never actually reached that much if you are not using some sort of "clever use of game mechanic".

I usually end up at around 400k vengeance near the end tanking Ra-den 10. This change would pretty much halve my vengeance there. It also happens frequently on add heavy fights (Empress adds, Wind Lord, multiple adds on Lei Shen, Horridon, etc.)

I'm guessing there are add heavy fights in T16 and this is just so that we don't get a repeat of Wind Lord.

Not a huge deal though, honestly.

I still think it's to prevent abusing.

Remember the first time they introduced the vengeance cap was when paladins were solosoaking Annihilate with AD.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Worldie wrote:Remember the first time they introduced the vengeance cap was when paladins were solosoaking Annihilate with AD.

Didn't even need AD. GoAK + SoTR / DP+IronBark+Pain Supp+SoTR / then AD - I was pulling upwards of 400K with Execution Sentence and HA/AW. I'd also like to point out that our Frost DK went Blood and our Brewmaster Monk were soaking it along with me. So it wasn't JUST Paladins.

It's not really that big of a concern. Even solo tanking H-Qon/Durumu/Horridon I never significantly broke the kind of values this would be capped at (unless I intentionally burned cooldowns and ate ~18 stacks of Triple Puncture for the HA/AW burn on the Frozen Warlords), and I'm sitting at 670k raid buffed at 45% haste.

The only thing the SOTR nerf might do is bring Mastery more in line with haste, and result in balancing the two to meet your raid's damage taken/healing requirements.

I wouldn't so it's so much solo tanking bosses that weren't really meant to be solo tanked. Vengeance doesn't REALLY affect that; even if Vengeance didn't exist, we would be doing it as a rule. It goes a BIT further when Monks are taking Decapitate to the face just for Vengeance, or people intentially eating Anima Rings for the Vengeance etc.