Aug. 22, 2017
10:55 am JST

Aug. 22, 2017
10:56 am JST

"My original instinct was to pull out," he said in his speech, but added that he was convinced by his national security advisers to strengthen the U.S. ability to prevent the Taliban from ousting the U.S.-backed government in Kabul.

He was hammering home the message that Afghanistan was a waste of "trillions of dollars" and that the troops had to come home.

Aug. 22, 2017
10:57 am JST

Aug. 22, 2017
11:01 am JST

Aug. 22, 2017
11:37 am JST

He was hammering home the message that Afghanistan was a waste of "trillions of dollars" and that the troops had to come home.

Now he's changed his mind.

No, listened to his Generals. Now that he's surrounded by the Washington machine and it off from Bannon and other outsiders, Trump now has to work with the very people he hates, so why are you guys complaining? You guys wanted him neutered and now he is.

The liar.

No, you want to get something done, you have to work with your team. All presidents lie, all of them.

Aug. 22, 2017
11:47 am JST

No, listened to his Generals. Now that he's surrounded by the Washington machine and it off from Bannon and other outsiders, Trump now has to work with the very people he hates, so why are you guys complaining? You guys wanted him neutered and now he is.

First off; I'm not "you guys" and secondly; this is the latest in a long line of Trump's empty promises and u-turns being exposed. Whether he has Bannon or any of his imps advising, or not.

No, you want to get something done, you have to work with your team.

Which team? It seems to change by the hour. But at least you see that Trump cannot work in isolation. And by that turn; America cannot work in isolation.

All presidents lie, all of them.

Maybe. But I wouldn't claim to be certain on that. If you do accept that Trump is a serial liar; it seems odd that you place all your faith in him.

Aug. 22, 2017
12:02 pm JST

The fallacy with that strategy is that the gambler will eventually run out of money and be unable to double down. How long will the U.S. be willing to spend and die for that country, and to what end?

I agree with the generals that Pakistan safe haven's are key to any strategy in Afghanistan. I just hate to see America (and young Americans in harm's way) involved in nation building there solely to keep the country from turning into a modern day pirate cove for terrorists.

However, that strategy will also entail nation building in Pakistan to eliminate madrasas and the lawless areas. Dealing with Pakistan will also entail dealing with the India-Pakistan cold war/conflict so that Pakistan can move its forces to the West instead of on the Indian borders.

Don't expect any miracles out of this one. Trump's indifference to the military will either be a good thing or a bad thing depending on collateral deaths and whether the military angers or can win the Afghanistan public. The mainstream military (non-Spec Ops) doesn't have good track record at the heart's and minds game, and the Afghanistan public doesn't really care too much about outside help. So, I am not too optimistic.

Aug. 22, 2017
12:18 pm JST

It would have been cheeper to give every Afghanistan house free internet and not cost young Americans their lives, disfigurement, mental stress. Abdul sitting on his dirt floor inside his mud built house trying to feed his child brides might just think, hey this sucks!!! Might start thinking about education! The biggest fear for Taliban "education", bomb them they don't care but education they get so upset. They shoot young girls in the face for reading a book, Give them all the net. Problem solved.

Aug. 22, 2017
12:27 pm JST

First off; I'm not "you guys" and secondly; this is the latest in a long line of Trump's empty promises and u-turns being exposed. Whether he has Bannon or any of his imps advising, or not.

No, as much as I hate this decision at least he's listening to his Generals and other military staff. It's what you guys wanted, a president who listens and not go off the rails and go rogue.

Which team? It seems to change by the hour. But at least you see that Trump cannot work in isolation. And by that turn; America cannot work in isolation.

Working together is fun.

Maybe.

No, not maybe. We never had a president that didn't lie. Even Washington lied.

But I wouldn't claim to be certain on that. If you do accept that Trump is a serial liar; it seems odd that you place all your faith in him.

If we did like you say, then we should have never given any president the benefit of a doubt. They all lie, comes with the territory. But at least on this, his taking leadership and not telling enemy about timetables, troop levels etc.

Same old crap after a trash heap of lies on the campaign trail.

At least he admitted that he did a flip flop on this one. Doesn't like it, but will listen to the military on this. The last president would have never done such a thing.

Aug. 22, 2017
12:48 pm JST

What does a businessman know about foreign affairs?? What does a businessman know about waging war?? N - O - T - H - I - N - G. That is why he has to leave it all to the Pentagon and the generals...and do they want war or no war?

Aug. 22, 2017
01:01 pm JST

Aug. 22, 2017
01:07 pm JST

"a fight to win."

@cricky above said it best: it's been shown throughout history wars there are un-winnable. To 'win' all guerrillas would have to be stopped, which is impossible given the various guerrillas in all the different tribes and factions vying for control in Afghanistan (and Pakistan). As rightwinger, 'realpoitik-er' Henry Kissinger says, 'If the guerrillas don't lose, they win.'

For those who think 'the generals know', I'll echo Clemenceau: War is too serious a matter to entrust to military men.

With Russia arming the Taliban, what will the US - Russia relationship be?

With China already holding resource related extraction contracts in Afghanistan, what will the US - China relationship be?

US, Russia and China: go home. Leave Afghanistan to the Afghanis.

It's a shame one of the ways Trump and the Republicans want to grow the US economy is by further expanding war efforts resulting in more deaths and more money spent on feeding the bloated military and NOT spending money on things that help middle and working class Americans.

Aug. 22, 2017
01:34 pm JST

It's a shame one of the ways Trump and the Republicans want to grow the US economy is by further expanding war efforts resulting in more deaths and more money spent on feeding the bloated military and NOT spending money on things that help middle and working class Americans.

To be fair, Trump used to say pretty much that. Strangely, his supporters didn't call him a hippie, pacifist, socialist with no idea about geopolitics living in a peppermint tea unicornverse at that time. They thought it was great.

Now he's done a complete U-turn, he gets points for listening to the military. They think that is great too.

Aug. 22, 2017
01:35 pm JST

there are very few things i agree with trump on, but pulling out of afghanistan was one of them. over 2,000 soldiers have died and trillions have been spent on a war that we cannot, and will not, win. there is no such thing as "winning" in afghanistan because it lacks a strong central gov't, military and police force. the country is ruled by tribal leaders who have their own goals, none of which align with what the US wants.

Aug. 22, 2017
02:07 pm JST

Nothing good will come from this. Even if the US is able to prevent terrorists from using Afghanistan as a base, there are plenty of other failed states where they can set up shop instead. The "war on terror" has become like a dog chasing its tail.

Aug. 22, 2017
02:22 pm JST

So he listens to his security and military advisers and changes his mind. He is stupid according to all of you so he should listen to others. Never listens, you all say.

He is stupid. He came off sounding reasonable in the speech because he was saying what someone else told him to say. He will go off script very soon. Maybe he already has.

He did "rely" on the advice of his generals, which will only be good until things get difficult. Then he will stab his generals in the back.

The generals themselves I don't have a lot of faith in because they are the same crowd who thinks nation building is a thing. I don't think I have seen or heard of nation building ever be successful. The closest was the Special Forces (Green Beret) in Vietnam. The special forces were doing well with "nation building," but then the mainstream army generals thought they could do as good a job with young, uneducated and not highly trained troops. Needless to say, the mainstream army had the exact opposite effect. So, yea turning a bunch of high school grads with inadequate training loose on a foreign population isn't the best idea. I don't think the mainstream Army is adequately trained for that role.

Aug. 22, 2017
02:42 pm JST

bass4funk: "No, you want to get something done, you have to work with your team. All presidents lie, all of them."

hang on a sec... you say "No." he's not a liar, then you say everyone lies. Which is it?

At least now you guys can stop jumping into the time machine argument and saying Obama started this war, or that it's "his war now". Guess it's Trumps, and look how quickly he's back tracking (and you are, too!) on all the things you condemned about it!

Aug. 22, 2017
02:47 pm JST

All presidents lie, all of them.

I thought you guys liked Trump because he's different. Now you seem to be defending him by saying that he's the same as every other president. Which is it? Do you like him because he's different or because he's the same?

Aug. 22, 2017
03:00 pm JST

Afghanistan's opium poppy production goes into more than 90% of heroin worldwide. Unless Trump starts to napalm the fields you will never stop terrorists there because this is a major source of the income that funds them.

Aug. 22, 2017
03:18 pm JST

hang on a sec... you say "No." he's not a liar, then you say everyone lies. Which is it?

No, generally speaking, he's pretty honest, but yes, everyone lies, now as far intentionally lying is concerned that's a different story. But it doesn't seem to do that as much, exaggeration does not necessarily constitute a lie.

At least now you guys can stop jumping into the time machine argument and saying Obama started this war, or that it's "his war now".

Thank God! Now it can be done in the right way. Not happy about it, but I could care less what the MSM think. I care what the people say that are on the ground fighting and Trump has listened to them, that's leadership and not leading from behind the way previous president did.

Guess it's Trumps, and look how quickly he's back tracking (and you are, too!) on all the things you condemned about it!

He didn't back track and neither did I. He admitted that he did a full flip-flop on this, but he decided to listen to his generals and the Pentagon and to follow their advice and as I said I don't like it but if anybody would know how this should be fought then it's the men and women in uniform. The previous president didn't listen to the military I didn't care about what was going on in Afghanistan, he just cared about his voter base and didn't care about anything else. In this kind of situation, the best thing to do is listen to the people that are fighting this thing.

Aug. 22, 2017
03:39 pm JST

Barack Obama, fortunately, has returned to the tradition of earlier presidents; he not only fired his commander in Afghanistan, he also overrode the military leadership’s recommendation about how to attack bin Laden’s compound. Kennedy likewise made operational decisions, telling his admirals where and how to intercept Soviet ships bound for Cuba. (After the crisis, Kennedy fired the head of the Navy.)

he just cared about his voter base and didn't care about anything else

Aug. 22, 2017
03:48 pm JST

@bass He didn't back track and neither did I. He admitted that he did a full flip-flop on this,

Is 'back track' different from 'full flip-flop'?

The previous president didn't listen to the military

Of course he did. Because he didn't start the wars rightists and the defense industries wanted him to start, and because he took the approaches he did in overseeing the US's ongoing wars does not mean 'he didn't listen to the military'. In a democratic republic, the president is the leader and is elected to make decisions - not the military. The US is not a state governed by the military. At least not fully and not yet. With Trump in charge...?

Aug. 22, 2017
03:56 pm JST

Aug. 22, 2017
04:47 pm JST

Trump outlines a revised vision, but few specifics, for the war in Afghanistan

Trump Outlines New Afghan Strategy With Few Details

Trump takes ownership of Afghanistan war with new announcement

Those are the headlines from 3 of the most Trump hating media outlets.

Double win for the media as they can attack him for not sharing details while also hitting him with the 'he is flip flopping again' attack. Then they get to put the entire thing on him and take it off of Obama, whose responsibility it really was.

It is very clear that he didnt want to do this, but he is trusting his advisers.

Time will tell if this was the right choice or not. I can also tell this is not the right thing to do based on who loved his speech. (McCain, Graham, Ryan). The so called 'base' isnt for this at ALL.

Yet President Trump feels this is the right thing to do, so we will support him until we can finish this up in a victory that he will get no credit for.

Aug. 22, 2017
04:53 pm JST

@blacklab focused on the Russia probe

You guys are STILL trying to say this is a 'thing'?

Thank you for reminding readers of the ongoing Russia investigation. It's germane to the Afghanistan issue because of Russia's involvement there (especially Russia's arming of the Taliban) and obviously because of the alleged (and currently investigated) connections Trump, various members of his family and numerous members of his administration have with different Russian oligarchs. Given Afghanistan's wealth of resources and Putin's oligarchs quest for resource control, which might be in competition with US oligarch's push for control, the Russia issue should remain 'a thing'.

Aug. 22, 2017
05:07 pm JST

Aug. 22, 2017
05:14 pm JST

@blacklab It is very clear that he didnt want to do this, but he is trusting his advisers.

So if things continue to go south he and his supporters can blame 'his advisors' because Trump 'didn't want to do this'? I thought Trump and his supporters claimed Trump had all the really best ideas. Trump claimed he knew way more than the generals. And now he's saying they know more?

so we will support him

By 'we' do you mean his loyal 35%? Will they be the ones putting their lives on the line for the benefit of the corporations interested in Afghanistan's resources? Will you and the others favoring war enlist, or maybe pay more in taxes to finance this ongoing mess?

until we can finish this up in a victory that he will get no credit for.

Aug. 22, 2017
05:58 pm JST

Aug. 22, 2017
05:59 pm JST

I think we should be spending our time and effort on Making America Great Again and America First.

What does the former actually mean?

As for the latter; that was tried before in the anti-war movement pre-Pearl Harbor. Lindbergh (aviator, eugenics fan and occasional anti-semite) was known to be sympathetic to the America First Committee but later, following the attack, put his lot in with defending the US.

The AFC was an odd mix of isolationists, left wingers and right wingers.

America First is unrelated to that group from long ago. Simply means that every decision will be made with the interests of America as the priority, not what 'the world' or other individual countries want. .

Aug. 22, 2017
06:14 pm JST

Seriously, what is the position of the 'left' as it relates to Afghanistan, stay or go? Hillary wouldnt take a position and Obama said one thing (promised to leave) while doing another (staying), so it was totally unclear.

Aug. 22, 2017
06:17 pm JST

Aug. 22, 2017
06:24 pm JST

Yeah thats pretty much the Dems position. No plan of their own to resolve this either way and wont take a position other than to say Trump doesnt have a plan. Well Obama didnt have a plan either, and Bush before him. Typical, 'no risk' obstructionist politics. At least Trump has taken an actual position and will move forward on it, thats a start.

Aug. 22, 2017
06:40 pm JST

So the Democratic position on the issue is on Breitbart? No, that would be Trump's entire base not agreeing with this decision to stay.

Yet Obama stayed too so I see the Dem/liberal dilemma. If they say staying is correct they have to ageee with Trump but then if they say go they have to admit Obana lied about his promise to leave in the first place.

Aug. 22, 2017
06:44 pm JST

Aug. 22, 2017
07:01 pm JST

I think some people here are making the mistake of thinking everyone can do screeching 180s on positions they've come to after years of consideration. I know some people are open-minded enough to have their positions changed after listening to the profound, flawlessly logical and meticulously researched ideas of a man like Trump, but not everyone is so flexible.

I liked his idea of pulling out of stupid stalemates - it often involves my country too. I've always been in this position.

I just don't have the ability to believe that and then 24 hours later see its polar opposite as satisfactory as well.

Can anyone teach me how to think this way? Does it involve joining a lunatic fringe?

Aug. 22, 2017
07:19 pm JST

yeah says me and the document signed by the President of my country on "behalf of a grateful nation". But don't let that worry you doesn't mean my opinion means more and I am actually against Trump's decision while trusting that the generals can make it work.

Aug. 22, 2017
07:21 pm JST

Can anyone teach me how to think this way? Does it involve joining a lunatic fringe?

I dunno why but you've reminded me of Iron Maiden's "Can I Play with Madness", for some reason.

two officials who participated in the discussions said on Sunday, is that it was difficult to get Trump to accept the need for a broader regional strategy that included U.S. policy toward Pakistan.Trump received a wide range of conflicting options, the officials said.

And there you have it; he is unable to sustain his campaign promises because the reality is that there are experts and advisors that will disagree and contradict one another. This is, of course, normal in the WH but Trump is used to yes men and getting his own way.

Afghanistan is a disaster and sure, to justify his umpteenth u-turn, Trump will lay the blame on Obama. Who also changed his mind, of course.

But then go back even further and I'll ask again - why single out Afghanistan? Post 9/11?

Aug. 22, 2017
09:23 pm JST

two officials who participated in the discussions said on Sunday, is that it was difficult to get Trump to accept the need for a broader regional strategy that included U.S. policy toward Pakistan.Trump received a wide range of conflicting options, the officials said.

____

Trump made it clear in interviews during the campaign, specifically on the The O'Reilly Factor," April 28, 2016 that he would stay in Afghanistan.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would stay in Afghanistan. It's probably the one place we should have gone in the Middle East because it's adjacent and right next to Pakistan which has nuclear weapons. So I think you have to stay and do the best you can, not that it's ever going to be great but I don't think we have much of a choice. That's one place, frankly, instead of going to Iraq we probably should have gone there first. I would say in Afghanistan and only, again, because of its location next to Pakistan.

Aug. 22, 2017
10:23 pm JST

I have a quote from Trump saying he knows more than the Generals. Can you show your quote from Obama? I mean, if you're going to criticize someone for claiming to know more than the Generals, surely we'd start with the guy who has been quoted saying as much.

Aug. 22, 2017
10:38 pm JST

He has said that withdrawal would mean that gap is instantly filled by terrorists. So in other words. the U.S can never withdraw until all terrorists in the region are gone. So incredibly unlikely. Who is going to pay for this folly? Its already cost a fortune. Hope you guys are finally getting an oil pipeline or something because the U.S can not afford these adventures. Your country needs a massive renewal programme. Something Trump was right about.

The situation has become very dangerous for an administration that has overruled its commanders dramatically and frequently and is reportedly considering doing so again by announcing accelerations of the withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan beyond what military commanders have recommended.

Aug. 22, 2017
11:02 pm JST

Bannon was the only one in the White House saying the US should stay out of foreign wars. He was ousted by the generals and chickenhawk Congresscritters, so the neocons are set on more wars.

War that suck trillions of dollars from the taxpayers with the only reward being more people who hate the US, turning some into terrorists to avenge the deaths of "collateral damage" family and friends killed by US bombs and bullets.

The neocons finally got to him, convincing him that Americans truly love war. And I guess it's time to admit it.

Americans love war. They love sending their sons and daughters off to some festering desert hellhole to get their legs blown off and die. They think it's patriotic to to cry into a folded flag with their child, spouse, sibling ripped apart in a casket.

And they get it all from Hollywood.

Watch how this post will get voted down because the Americans here love the Hollywood/first person shooter game version of war because they're not smart enough to think about it critically.

Aug. 23, 2017
09:38 am JST

Toasted HereticAug. 22 10:56 am JST

"My original instinct was to pull out," he said in his speech, but added that he was convinced by his national security advisers to strengthen the U.S. ability to prevent the Taliban from ousting the U.S.-backed government in Kabul.

He was hammering home the message that Afghanistan was a waste of "trillions of dollars" and that the troops had to come home.

Now he's changed his mind.

The liar.

I don't know if I'd call him a liar, exactly. I think he just says whatever he thinks will make him sound good at the time and doesn't bother to check if he's right or not. No matter what he says it seems to go down well with gullible morons so he probably sees no reason to change. Not that he could if he wanted, he's clearly lost the plot ages ago.

Aug. 23, 2017
05:18 pm JST

bass4funkToday 11:45 am JST

"I was really hoping bass would answer that. Is it your turn on the night shift?"

I did.

No you didn't. You were asked to provide a specific example of Obama actually saying outright he knew more than the generals. Not examples of him not listening to them or over-ruling them. Perhaps if you're having trouble you could take a look for this kind of thing:

"There's nobody bigger or better at the military than I am." — June 2015 Fox News interview

"I know more about ISIS [the Islamic State militant group] than the generals do. Believe me." — November 2015

"So a general gets on, sent obviously by Obama, and he said, 'Mr. Trump doesn't understand. He knows nothing about defense.' I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand, believe me. Believe me. Than they will ever understand. Than they will ever understand." — July 2016

Aug. 23, 2017
05:55 pm JST

Well, I certainly didnt see that one coming... option D. Pile on more Troops. That said, it doesnt appear to be his plan, but that of Mattis. Hopefully we're not seeing a real life version of "War Machine" being played out in front of our eyes...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4758646/?ref_=nv_sr_1

One other thing that does stand out, is the Comment towards Pakistan. At last! Hopefully no further beating around the bush regarding that, Country.... and when their Army says that there are no Terrorist hideouts in Pakistan, sure he's right (from his own Country's perspective) - they have a different view to the rest of the World over which groups are Terrorists, and which aren't.

Aug. 23, 2017
06:59 pm JST

Out of this whole affair, seems Trump learned something, he criticized his predecessors for, that may serve him going forward:

Trump:"My original instinct was to pull out, and historically, I like following my instincts. But all my life I've heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office. In other words, when you're president of the United States."

Aug. 23, 2017
09:08 pm JST

Aug. 24, 2017
07:08 am JST

Terrible terrible decision by Trump. Like Obama before him, he promises to stop making wars and then goes straight ahead and does the opposite.

How long will it take American military generals and decision makers to realize that Afghanistan does not want American assistance? Its so embarrassing to see the number of countries the American have destabilized, the number of civilians killed, the number of service men and women killed, the dollars wasted etc etc. All for nothing.