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thanks for those links. there were a lot more vid clips listed at the bottom of that page.

the "case" is even more interesting since he hasn't actually revealed a name or time-frame for when this allegedly took place. No hospital obviously reported a murder or suspcious death relating to him being there, so unless the police can figure out who his "bit on the side" was back "then" (whenever then was) there might not even be a case to persue. I hope the guy wasn't just looking for another 15 mins of fame by making up a story and wasting everyone's time.

It may be no coincidence that there is a major debate going on in the UK at the moment around the issue of assisted suicide, particularly following the author Terry Pratchett's recent Dimbleby lecture "Shaking Hands With Death".

thanks for those links. there were a lot more vid clips listed at the bottom of that page.

the "case" is even more interesting since he hasn't actually revealed a name or time-frame for when this allegedly took place. No hospital obviously reported a murder or suspcious death relating to him being there, so unless the police can figure out who his "bit on the side" was back "then" (whenever then was) there might not even be a case to persue. I hope the guy wasn't just looking for another 15 mins of fame by making up a story and wasting everyone's time.

Which is why I questioned his initial statement when he said the friend was "dying of AIDS"? It's an odd thing to say these days, you'd be much more likely (particularly as a gay man) to say they were dying of PCP, Kaposis Sarcoma, heart disease or cancer as he had AIDS/HIV?.

If you can't access "The Box" from your location and want to see the files I will upload them and the original Inside Out documentary where he made the claim to the non-porn section of http://www.gay-torrents.net I'm sure we all know where that is

Which is why I questioned his initial statement when he said the friend was "dying of AIDS"? It's an odd thing to say these days, you'd be much more likely (particularly as a gay man) to say they were dying of PCP, Kaposis Sarcoma, heart disease or cancer as he had AIDS/HIV?.

Your logic is hard for me to grasp. He may be frail and his memory may be suspect but to say that some who lived through early years of this pandemic would NOT say someone was dying of AIDS makes no sense. I have never heard anyone say that someone with HIV/AIDS died of PCP or KS -- they say that they died from AIDS or that they died of PCP due to AIDS. You may be "technically" correct in your assertions, but your conclusions are completely false.

you'd be much more likely (particularly as a gay man) to say they were dying of PCP, Kaposis Sarcoma, heart disease or cancer as he had AIDS/HIV?.

perhaps this a difference between a gay man that lived through the heyday of the epidemic when so many were dying versus someone newer to the situation (ie after 2000 or so) and where our initial disagreement comes from.

That or you hang around too many people who know too much about the particulars of HIV/AIDS. Perhaps you need to meet some more people less acquainted with this disease.

I clearly tell the casual listener that my partner died of AIDS in 2008. Someone more knowledgeable about how the disease works may ask the followup question about what particular, to which I answer non-Hodgkins lymphoma (which I usually have to describe to both the casual and knowledgeable listener. damned esoteric illnesses. LOL unless you or a close friend has had it, then most people don't know what you're talking about) and then I mention the pneumonia he acquired within the last few days of his life.

Having had so many friends and partners die of AIDS, I would never dream of saying they died of PCP, or KS, etc; but that they died of AIDS. The general layperson on the street clearly understands the implications of saying someone died of AIDS but would never understand that dying of non-Hodgkins lymphoma meant it was an HIV-related death.

(By the way, a person has to register to log in to view the URL you posted and the site is no longer taking registrations.)

I think it does stretch back to the fact that the USA and England are two countries separated by a common language. (George Bernard Shaw - Whenever) {I used to go out with his great granddaughter years ago?) I personally would not be satisfied with somebody saying that their parter had died from AIDS , not specific enough for me.

I'll post the files on http://www.gay-torrents.net and my own server tomorrow, they aren't subject to copyright or anything as BBC iPlayer makes them available most of the time.

The word is on the street - and I have met Ray many years ago when a youth worker as he was then a very well known Youth activist many years ago before his career in broadcasting ..................

Is it did not actually happen. He is gay, maybe, had a lover who was then dying of AIDs or knew some that did - as did us all - many, many years ago and maybe thought of doing what he said he did .

But that he did not do it.

And having met him - although only many years ago and I would not profess to known him ...........

but know of him well and how he operates well and have indeed admired him and followed his career, I think this is highly likely because as a activist and broadcaster he has often made dramatic statements that were bending he truth to get a reaction and to get his point made.

I think this time it misfired and he just went too far with this this time.

If there was anything to substantiate that he really did smother his lover, even many years ago , with the extensive investigations the UK police have done over the last half yea , even if they could only tie anything in the slightest up with the records of anyone Ray knew that died of AIDs in hospital even so long ago, knowing the British police he would have been charged with murder or manslaughter.

I think there is no evidence and he did not do it, and has probaly confessed to the police he did not do it and was just makign a dramatic statement to make a point

Just used some fact and mixed it with an exaggerated statement to make a point in a TV documentary to make a point about mercy killing and euthanasia - as he has done this very often.

Sorry to come into this discussion late and if this point has already been made but I have been away for forums for a while. I have tried to catch up on this thread before answering but some of the discussions were very complicated and hard to follow .

But I doubt Ray murdered of smothered anyone, always did, and that is the conclusion of the UK Police after months of investigation

It may be no coincidence that there is a major debate going on in the UK at the moment around the issue of assisted suicide, particularly following the author Terry Pratchett's recent Dimbleby lecture "Shaking Hands With Death".

It is no co-incidence at all and this was precisely Rays point when he made the original statement in the documentary that sparked this investigation off.

And Ray is plainly not the person he once was. He appears to be suffering memory loss and at times appears confused, so his judgment when he made that statement on that documentary for dramatic effect was perhaps not what it may once had been - i.e in the past he would suggest something to make a point without actually lying or incriminating himself.

Also in the UK we DO! still say someone died of AIDS

Even now and not the particular ailment that killed them. And you woudl especially say someone was dying or died of AIDS if your experience was during the terrible early time when their was no treatment as Ray Gosling's .

Just used some fact and mixed it with an exaggerated statement to make a point in a TV documentary to make a point about mercy killing and euthanasia

thanks for the update. What a very strange ending though to this story. And what a strange charge as in essence a man, a media personality, made a outlandish comment on television (a medium, my father taught me in the 60s, is all fabrication and that even the "news" is twisted to make someone's point), the police investigate and determine that it's not true, and then charge the television personality for wasting their time.

Maybe new members come in here armed with the information they have just learned and because of the positive changes in medicine over the last 20 or so years, and because they did not front the dark days of this epidemic, see things differently. Perhaps overly optimistic, or have skewed view of what it means to on this boat.

Naive I would call them...... I would call myself.

I'd say dont quickly dismiss us as idiots, most of us have good intentions....... how about a little patience, eh? Besides it woud suck to not see a new face in years, right? (though it'd mean wonders in terms of the epidemic.)

I know humor is valued here, and I do appreciate the barn comment, it made me smile, then chuckle. But I think Mecch nailed it.

I'm not a trying to argue in this case I just wanted to put the noob's point of view out there.----------------------------------------About the story.... ealier last year in the midst of despair, I even researched travelling to Europe to end my life by euthanasia. I'm glad I didn't follow through.

I've lost five people this year from AIDS. Three languished for years in unimaginable pain and a diminished quality of life. Three spent their last weeks in hospitals/hospice, while organ after organ failed.

One had a longstanding infection that an intact immune system would have eradicated. One had battled a hundred little infections, until his entire system collapsed.

My five friends died from pneumonia From organ failure. From staph infection. From heart failure. All related directly to AIDS, and the complications thereof.

They all died of AIDS, whether the cause of death was heart or organ failure, from a usually easily treatable infection or a long term struggle with a hundred tiny things that, combined, tore through the body.

I do not need to know the details. They serve me no useful purpose here at the end of the world. Some died surrounded by family and loved ones, some died horribly alone.

This has been a wretched year for me, insofar as people dying. I have the utmost respect for someone brave enough to help alleviate another person's suffering.

I absolutely hope that, when the time comes, if I am in pain and no longer connected to this world, that someone helps me leave.

And then, to go to sleep;And then, if it should beThe will of its Inquisitor,The liberty to die.

-emily dickenson

Jaguar, you asked for the old timers to respect newly diagnosed. I sincerely do try to do that. If I seem ill-tempered as of late, it is because many of the touchstones from whom I learned about this illness, unspeakably brave mentors and role models from whom I found myself centered, are dead.

People on this site (and IRL) can offer support, compassion, love, and even release, if we are both brave enough. But when push comes to shove, we live with this illness inside our own heads. We are alone in our meat-boxes, in a universe not of our making - or even our choosing, assuming we stay in the same one.

I do respect the process of acclimating to this. HIV forces people to grow up a little sooner than they want to, and that's hard. Impossible so, for some, who seek refuge in booze and drugs and sex and even vile judgment of others.

Newly diagnosed people might never know those horrors, save witnessing them when they happen to older people and those who forsake treatment, or for whom treatment fails.

others of us walk through our lives with dozens, sometimes hundreds of ghosts chained to our hearts. They are supposed to be insubstantial, those ghosts. But they are sometimes crushingly heavy. So from time to time, I get testy. And as for the talk show host's situation, I have nothing but sympathy and empathy for the man, whether or not his story is true.

*edited for spell check

« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 03:36:03 PM by jkinatl2 »

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I have to agree. Support and informational forum, right? I mean, aside from AM I.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Maybe new members come in here armed with the information they have just learned and because of the positive changes in medicine over the last 20 or so years, and because they did not front the dark days of this epidemic, see things differently. Perhaps overly optimistic, or have skewed view of what it means to on this boat.

Naive I would call them...... I would call myself.

I'd say dont quickly dismiss us as idiots, most of us have good intentions....... how about a little patience, eh? Besides it woud suck to not see a new face in years, right? (though it'd mean wonders in terms of the epidemic.)

Actually, I'd direct you to look at all of Andy99's posts (as he is the poster I was refering to back on Feb 20). He argued minutiae on here, then disappeared (with one posting exception in March) until today, to get back into it on this thread. I don't require patience with his sort, I simply need an "ignore" button. He was here to do nothing but argue. This isn't about a "newbie to HIV" it's about someone new to this site who is simply stirring the pot.

this is a support site, and when you are new you shouldn't try to "greet" everyone with non-stop arguments. It certainly isn't the way I would choose to gain support -- and if he's not looking for support, then I would suggest he find a forum that more meets his needs.

Actually, I'd direct you to look at all of Andy99's posts (as he is the poster I was referring to back on Feb 20). He argued minutiae on here, then disappeared (with one posting exception in March) until today, to get back into it on this thread. I don't require patience with his sort, I simply need an "ignore" button. He was here to do nothing but argue. This isn't about a "newbie to HIV" it's about someone new to this site who is simply stirring the pot.

this is a support site, and when you are new you shouldn't try to "greet" everyone with nonstop arguments. It certainly isn't the way I would choose to gain support -- and if he's not looking for support, then I would suggest he find a forum that more meets his needs.

Just saying.....

Mike

I wasn't actually asking for any support in this thread, I was merely commenting that Ray Gosling is a bullshitter.

The semantics of HIV and AIDS have intrigued me since my diagnosis, an interesting one today was Jan Moir's column in the Daily Mail about Nadja Benaissa

Quote

Nadja Benaissa is in court accused of infecting a man with HIV by sleeping with him when she knew she had the virus.

The star of the German pop group No Angels claimed, in her defence, that she knew she was careless, but had been advised that the chances of her passing on the virus were near zero. So it wasn't her fault.

Not quite good enough, Nadja. Not by a long, long way.

Yes, she was only 17 at the time. And there are moments in court when she looks vulnerable.

But to her charges of attempted aggravated assault and grievous bodily harm, there can only be one verdict. Guilty.

She knew exactly what she was doing. How hard could it have been to insist that the boys wore condoms?

How could she even think of exposing them to the danger? Safe sex might be a two-way street, and Aids is not the killer it once was, but Miss Benaissa should be grateful that she is not on a much more serious charge.

To say that "Aids is not the killer it once was" is inaccurate, HIV under control but not Aids. which currently defined as when you CD4 slips below 200 and your viral load is detectable is a serious health risk even now. (some journalist anyway? "diminishment" isn't even a word in any dictionary)

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

The semantics of HIV and AIDS have intrigued me since my diagnosis, ...

To say that "Aids is not the killer it once was" is inaccurate, HIV under control but not Aids. which currently defined as when you CD4 slips below 200 and your viral load is detectable is a serious health risk even now.

I think we talked about this before, about how the words "HIV" and "AIDS" are synonymous to the general population, and also why most say that "AIDS kills" rather than "PCP kills". AIDS deaths are down (compare to say 1999) thanks to the meds, hence "AIDS is not the killer that it once was" even though HIV is still a destructive virus causing a syndrome that allows an illness to become terminal.

of course you and I understand that "HIV" and "AIDS" are different words; yet we also understand how intricately those words are linked together (AIDS is the usual outcome of untreated HIV) and how to the layman these words have little difference. Technically no one dies of HIV, they die from some complication of AIDS.

But to the general population there is little difference in the words. Would it be nice if journalists wouldn't propogate these misconceptions? Sure; but they are just people too, and most people don't know much about the diseases that don't affect them. I often hear people complaining about how staff in ERs don't know much about HIV/AIDS - well of course not. Few of the staff are usually positive and few people present to the ER with such an issue. ER staff know a lot about broken bones and heart attacks, but like most journalists, they don't know enough about HIV/AIDS

for some of us (those affected and infected), the difference in the words can be quite important though. Medical care can be based upon the difference, and funding can be too. Sadly, for some people there can be differing levels of stigma attached to those two words too. Although I no longer fit the diagnostic criteria for AIDS (cd4<200 + OI +VL) I still consider myself a "person living with aids" as I spent over a decade with the clinical diagnosis, and that status allows me to continue to receive proper health care while at the same time allowing my state to have proper funding for my treatment. Other people can't wait to claim that they "only have HIV" after going back to cd4>200 + UD VL because it helps them mentally adjust to their situation.

the semantics of HIV/AIDS are similar to the issue surrounding diabetes. Not having that problem myself, I have no clue to what type 1, 2, etc means nor what the difference is. I also say and think that diabetes is the cause of death for people although it may be kidney disease/failure that is the actual cause of death. Here's an article ("Diabetes: Just As Deadly As Ever") illustrating the diabetes semantics (Diabetes itself doesn't kill people, complications from uncontrolled blood sugars do), similar to the HIV/AIDS semantics.

German pop star Nadja Benaissa, on trial for reckless transmission of HIV to a former partner, has been given a two year suspended sentence.

Lisa Power, Policy Director at Terrence Higgins Trust, responds: "It's vital that we stop the onward transmission of HIV, but we don't believe that prosecutions like this help. We support prosecutions where someone has intentionally passed on the virus, but that clearly wasn't the case here. Nadja was a vulnerable 16-year-old when she was diagnosed and had difficulty managing her sex life. Over 200,000 young people in the UK caught an STI last year, and one in ten was re-infected within the year, so unfortunately reckless sexual behaviour is not uncommon. For an unlucky few, a moment's recklessness will leave them with an incurable, serious infection. If you're going to have sex, the best way to ensure your health is to wear a condom.

"People with HIV should - and the vast majority, do - make every effort to avoid passing the virus on. But some people struggle with disclosure for a number of reasons, and they need support to manage safer sex. We know that these cases make it harder for some people to come forward and ask for help. We urge everyone having difficulty managing safer sex - whether they think they've got HIV or not - to call THT Direct and find out how to get support to change their behaviour.

"We shouldn't forget that in the UK, one in four people with HIV don't know they have it, so anyone having sex with a new partner should take responsibility for their own sexual health and insist on condoms. Not only may someone feel unable to tell you they have HIV, they may not know themselves."

"We shouldn't forget that in the UK, one in four people with HIV don't know they have it, so anyone having sex with a new partner should take responsibility for their own sexual health and insist on condoms. Not only may someone feel unable to tell you they have HIV, they may not know themselves."

That should be a sticky thread, and everyone should agree to it, like "terms of conditions" before they begin posting.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."