There are also HL who are afraid to post on this sub...

I often hear how there are many LL afraid to post on this sub due to a fear of being ridiculed etc. Fair enough, but I'd just like to point out there are also many HL who are afraid to post on this sub because they see so many instances of HL who think having sex is part of a normal, healthy marriage get called selfish, entitled assholes. This primarily being the case with new fathers who are in year two or so of post-birth sexlessness. They're not selfish assholes, they just want intimacy with their wife. Yes having a child can be a libido killer, but that does not mean anyone has a right to shit on someone who doesn't realize that and is actively trying to find a way to revive their sexlife.

I'd just like you new fathers and any other HL men or women who worry they'll be accused of being entitled assholes, you're not alone. There are many, many people in your shoes lurking in the shadows of this sub trying to figure out how to word their post so as not to be accused of being that kind of person. My advice is to word it how you feel and ignore the people on here who shame you, your sexuality and your perfectly normal desire for intimacy with your spouse.

The rules may not seem like they apply to those who love to hate and shame you, but they do, and the enforcement of those rules is just as warranted on your post as it is for any post submitted by a LL.

You can't decide for someone else what their emotional nor physical needs are. Is someone who requires 5000 calories a day any different from someone that needs 2000 or even 1500? Is someone that requires 8 hours of sleep any different than someone that can function on 4?

No. Unfortunately, society has pounded into a lot of people's heads that "anything outside the deviation of normal is selfish." No, it's not. It's called listening to your body. Some people's bodies and minds require much more of something than others.

Just because you've settled for less doesn't mean others should or will. There's 7 billion people on this planet. It might take a little work and looking to find that high-drive partner, but if work and looking scares you, by all means, feel free to settle.

There was a post the other day about a man's father teaching him some life lessons ("sex is not everything" if I recall). Not such a good lesson.

But one lesson I fully intend to share with my sons is "what to expect the first year of fatherhood."

Nobody told me what to expect, as a new father, and it was very difficult. I think it is awful that we expect new fathers (especially fathers whose love language is physical touch) to just know about the sudden lack of intimacy and affection, and then we blame them for trying to deal with it.

and if you ever let yourself be vulnerable and open up to your wife, even, god forbid, let her see you cry, well that's why she won't have sex with you.

Now man up, stop having feelings, and never admit to being insecure, anxious, or sad or you only have yourself to blame for not having more sex

I am upset that I have seen people, some regulars even, on this sub who espouse these views, even if they couch it in less horrendous terms. Quite frankly I'm the most upset at the ostensibly women posters who note that having emotions was why they lost attraction for people

fucking bullshit and the reason I am going to drink myself into an early grave trying to make the feelings go away

I can't say that I can recall reading a single post here where someone expressed losing attraction over their partner "having emotions". Though there have been plenty where they lost attraction over their partner being whiny, pouty, angry, yelling, throwing tantrums, punching the wall...etc.

Does it always have to be that way? I never even made it to the 6-week mark without trying to risk it. And at night I desperately wanted some reminder that I wasn't just a mom but also still a woman. Not to mention needing some affirmation about still being desirable despite what my body had been through.

The only thing I recall is not wanting my nipples messed with while I was breastfeeding. That part of me was definitely over stimulated. That seems like a fairly simple negotiation, though.

Same here. I may not have wanted sex as much as I did before, but I worked hard to try and regain intimacy - and be able to do so - after giving birth. Unfortunately, my ex was no more interested after than he was before . .

Nobody told me what to expect, as a new father, and it was very difficult. I think it is awful that we expect new fathers to just know about the sudden lack of intimacy and affection, and then we blame them for trying to deal with it.

I agree, I think doctors should be more involved in explaining what to expect. But I don't see the posts to new fathers here as shaming, many people are just trying to explain what they were never told by anyone. Because that knowledge can help them understand their situation better imo.

I'm not sure as op seems to be implying that it's better to just leave them floundering in the dark, thinking this phase is always permanent and the end of things. It's a tough time and I think they deserve to know their relationship is not abnormal.

Well if it helps I'm a HL and it played a big part in ending my only long term relationship. I liked it more than once a day and I didn't like finishing quick either and she felt she couldn't satisfy me. I felt unwanted by my gf, but I realize now I wanted it too much. I'm working hard to redirect that energy into something more positive like finishing college (that I put off for a while) and trying out new hobbies.

Or another example are people whose spouses have a chronic illness. If you leave you're an asshole, if you stay you mustn't complain because you're an asshole. It's a very lose-lose situation.A lot of people say just leave, but it's not easy leaving someone who can't do basic daily tasks.

Yeah, I will overstate for effect that if you are a guy, and you have a kid somewhere in your house that is not leaving for college next year, there is a crew here just itching to let you have it for not recognizing how difficult motherhood is.

The issue of kids is one of the more favored go-to questions when a guy is posting ("do you have young kids....?") If the answer is "yes", the response is often that no further discussion is needed---guy lacks empathy, case closed.

Noting that a dead bedroom preceded the birth and continues into year 6 of the child's life often has little effect, it seems.

Consider it just the background noise of the sub; no way to get rid of it. And once you adjust for it, you can still get clear signal.

It's also assumed, once the guy is identified as a father, that he doesn't do a single thing to help out with the child raising duties, is under no stress (from being a new father) and doesn't do any of the household work. He simply goes to work, fucks off all day then comes home and pesters his wife for sex. I'm sure it happens, but for that to be the assumption is absurd.

To be fair, it's pretty much a new idea that men should do childcare/household work. Are we just going to ignore pretty much the entirety of history, even recent history, as it pertains to gender roles? I'd guess the vast majority of women posting here could attest to these sort of issues in some form and give some anecdotes on how it affects them. For example, I've never known a man (relatives, dad, grandparents, good friends, siblings, etc.) that was even near a 50/50ish parent. I've also heard a ton of comments since childhood re the role of the woman that make my blood boil.

Societal-level critiques should never be blanket applied to individual circumstances, because that removes individual agency from the equation.

I think you make good points in terms of gender roles, and it can probably apply in a lot of cases. It’s pretty shitty and should definitely be acknowledged. But it's still dehumanizing as all hell to have someone assume something about yourself based on statistical probabilities. Without asking, you don't even know if your assumption really makes sense. Advice has to start from concrete individual circumstances and work toward the general, not the other way around.

Yeah, I will overstate for effect that if you are a guy, and you have a kid somewhere in your house that is not leaving for college next year, there is a crew here just itching to let you have it for not recognizing how difficult motherhood is.

Still small compared to the vast majority of comments along the lines of:

"She planned this the whole time!!! This devious snake of a woman tricked you into marrying her so she could eventually manipulate your manly desire to procreate and have the ultimate prize for the female...Children. Now that she gets to wipe asses all day, she has no need for any other pleasure!!"

"Having an 8 week old is no excuse to let intimacy die, she can plaster a smile on her face and give a blow job can't she? Tell her you are going to be having regular sex, she gets to decide if it is with her or not!"

"Your wife is a stay at home mom? She is clearly using you for your lavish 150k per year lifestyle so she can avoid getting a real job. Tell her to start putting out or you will kick her out, that is how you treat a ROOM MATE who doesn't pay her rent."

Yep, based on true stories.

EDIT: Oh how could I forget my all time favorite example. One time a certain regular on this sub said to a HL poster with a wife fighting breast cancer that she was probably relieved at the diagnosis because she had the "ultimate get out of jail card" and that she would definitely use her cancer to manipulate him.

Yes-- both HLs and LLs receive rough feedback on here but I still don't think it's even close to being equal. Certain HL posters receive rough feedback, such as new fathers, but the general attitude towards LLs of too many posters is negative.

What the fuck is with you making me name 3 things? I always notify the mods when it happens and they usually delete them promptly. I’m not here to service you, look around yourself or don’t but stop fucking demanding I do anything for you.

Yeah, I will overstate for effect that if you are a guy, and you have a kid somewhere in your house that is not leaving for college next year, there is a crew here just itching to let you have it for not recognizing how difficult motherhood is.

Cry me a river ladies. I'm the primary care giver in our house. I know exactly how hard it is to corral kids and raise them and teach them, change diapers and everything.

Yet somehow, as if by magic, I still find energy for sex. Because it was you and I before the kids, and will be after they are gone, and I'm not going to let my marriage die due to neglect.

So cry me a river. I don't care. I'm not that irresponsible that I'm willing to neglect her because of the kids. I put in the tome, energy and effort because I want an identity outside of fatherhood and sex is one way to do it. I get that raising kids and being a parent is tough. But the simple truth is...parents who use that excuse are simply choosing not to put in the effort. They are giving up but waving the "but kids" flag under the guise they shouldn't be judged but sympathized with. Sorry but no. You're neglecting the spouse and in doing so are indirectly causing serious damage to the child psyche and that's on you.

I was a stay at home parent at one point. I have also pursued a demanding career, with time spent in the belly of among the largest of beasts to be found in corporate America.

Being a SAHP was glorious and left me happy at day's end. I treasure those memories to this day.

Corporate America was draining, miserable, stressful and not something I would desire to return as a part of life. I do not look fondly upon my prior time in corporate America.

So when people tell me that being a SAHP is the tough job in the marriage, relative to working outside the home, I say little. That is an article of faith among people, and I don't argue religion. But having lived it myself, I do not subscribe to the doctrine of the church of the SAHP holding forth that it is the tough job in the marriage. I would say that being a parent to a child between 0-5 is among the greatest of experiences in my life, and I sincerely wish I could have that time back again, even if only for a few minutes.

I have done both and try not to compare between the two. Both are stressful for separate reasons and starting "mommy wars" doesn't really help anyone.

For some people their stressors u uniquely make being a SAHP difficult and miserable and they swear it's the hardest job out there. They should probably be the working parent. Others are the opposite and it's a breeze but "work stuff" is their stressors and they swear THAT is way harder. They should probably be the SAHP. That's why I don't compare.

It's not JUST what is more or less difficult, it's also what your personal stressors are that make either parenting or working exponentially better or worse.

It's not that I don't have empthay, it's that I don't have patience for people who use it as an excuse to ignore their partner. I have suffered from depression myself so I get it. But my depression is not an excuse to ignore and emotionally abuse someone I profess to love.

Sex is an important way for a married couple to bond. If you're not bonded and not taking care of yourselves, then what use are you as a parent? Raising another kid that thinks marriage is supposed to be drudgery and nothing but resentment toward each other?

No, it is not high libido, low libido - it is Higher libido and Lower libido in relation to the particular situation. You can be HL in a relationship and want sex once a month if your partner wants it once every three months, or LL if your partner wants it every day and you want it three times per week.

No, it is not high libido, low libido - it is Higher libido and Lower libido in relation to the particular situation. You can be HL in a relationship and want sex once a month if your partner wants it once every three months, or LL if your partner wants it every day and you want it three times per week.

I mean.... I see where you are coming from. After the 2 year mark that’s kind of a shitty excuse. The first year though in my opinion is very hard to balance baby life with anything else. (I’m a HLF who has always wanted sex every day.... I have baby and even I am struggling to get there mentally every day... we still have sex though, but I take some warming up now where was I was always good to go before. )

But most of those posts I see where the HLM is getting shit on are like “I have a 6 month old and a 2 year old ... my wife stays at home all day so I expect her to do all the housework ... but the house is always a mess when I get home, and so I end up having to do the dishes .....it’s the only chore I’ll agree to do though she has to do everything else and I always complain about it.... I never go down on my wife... and she always uses the excuse “I’m too dry down there” so then why won’t she just give me a bj every day? Should I just cheat?”

And I’m sorry, but if posters are going to be that over the top ridiculous then they deserve what they get.

It’s not the fact that they want to have sex that’s making them be called selfish. It’s the fact that the story they tell surrounding the rest of their relationship makes them come across as completely selfish.

agree. my husband doesn't go down on me, but I can live without it. I give him BJs though because I enjoy it so I don't exactly see it as a selfless act either since I get my own reward from it. It works for us

This is one of the important distinctions, to me. We've had quite a few people showing up who are just far too optimistic about the time-scale involved. And that does put them on shaky ground for being able to expect a very nice response. Partly because it suggests they haven't fully thought through and researched having children before going ahead with it, which annoys a lot of people.

The last time I talked about this issue I was careful to keep my comment gender- and orientation-neutral, because there's no real way of telling which, if either, partner will be LL. The process can seriously mess with the health of the partner/s who didn't give birth. But if the OP is a HL man whose LL partner is a woman who's given birth that recently, and is demonstrating ignorance about that specifically, then it should be pointed out. It just shouldn't be assumed.

It's not a man-woman thing, really, it's a "Please think through how much having children could cost you" thing.

That having been said, the possibility that the HL could be depressed due to the changes and the sleep deprivation - since again, that's not exclusive to a partner who gave birth - and be struggling as sex helps them cope with depression, could be raised more often.

The people who post wanting us to validate their feelings that their partner is "withholding" on purpose aren't going to feel pandered-to by that, and it might help someone. No disrespect to the regular posters; I've only just thought of the point myself.

And I'm fully behind the above title. "There are also HL who are afraid to post on this sub..." Yes. Totally. I think some people who aren't so into sex wildly overestimate how accepted it is, socially and culturally, to love it. And how badly some people have been abused for being sexual. And how intimidated they are by the idea of talking about their experiences, as a result.

The odd and unfortunate situation I experienced was not due to ignorance, I was aware there would be a reduction in intimacy and some potential difficulties and stress with new babies, I wasn’t expecting her to become as stressed as she did.

Now, I haven’t researched it fully, but for me I didn’t get a reduction in libido, quite the opposite. Which really didn’t help; multiple powerful motivators in my life, all of them demanding my fucks

I have been afraid to post in the past, afraid I can only paint part of a bigger picture with one post... and this sub is aimed at discussing the not so good parts of ourselves, not something most go for. Regardless of anonymity.

This is an important point; the fear of being unable to accurately we can portray our situation. Especially when we're already not in a good place mentally/emotionally; that can greatly diminish our ability to make words work the way we need them to.

I would categorise exceptionally strong effects on mental health in with birth injuries - and/or, especially if they contribute to it, with people's behaviour turning abusive during pregnancy/early parenthood - as things that are somewhat foreseeable due to their frequency, but shouldn't have to be just put up with.

And for all my impatience with parents who don't do their research, I am more annoyed by the fact that a comprehensive idea of what parenthood could be like isn't adequately promoted. As far I'm aware, most standard education doesn't even cover the physical health elements properly, let alone the rest. Given the diversity of levels of impact, it ought to be possible to inform people without scaremongering.

Mine was actually the reverse in my decade-long db. (I've been free of that marriage for some time now.) All my friends who were having babies would tell me how sex was the last thing they cared about.

I was a new mother, exhausted from working and taking care of a baby with some health problems... and I was the one being neglected in the bedroom. After a long day of diapers and tantrums and mom stuff and also going to work (and a husband who was unemployed half the time) and although I was beyond tired, all I wanted was some adult time at night... to feel like a woman again, to feel sexy like I used to.

I hate that the HL new fathers get so much crap for "not understanding" the rigors of motherhood. People need to realize that parenting is hard for everyone, and not automatically assume that the HL just isn't being empathetic.

This was my situation, too. The db preceded the birth, so it wasn't like he lost interest because things had changed. But my life felt like purgatory all through my kids' younger years, because I never had an escape from the drudgery of just being a mom 24/7.

I personally hope I have never shit on anyone who is HL with a new baby. I usually try hard to give good suggestions and advice and explanations based on my own going from HL to NL before and after birth.

At the same time, what is the issue? Why do people in first world countries not know this? I just don't get it. But then again, we are woefully ignorant amount many aspects of hormones and sexuality in general.

I'm really torn reading posts like this. I'm a HL man married to a LL woman, we have young kids and once she's pregnant sex switches off overnight for almost two years. We are in our third sexless spell following the birth of our youngest and we haven't had sex for 16 months.

I let things go for the first six years of marriage. Like you I didn't want her to think of me as an ogre for wanting sex while she was breastfeeding and doing the whole "mum" thing. Especially through our first, it was a rough pregnancy with medical issues for both my eldest and my wife. I buried my desires down and just carried on being the best dad and husband I could be.

After seven years though I HAD to say something and my wife was really shocked and upset at herself for letting things get so bad between us.

I'm no more a feminist ally than any other decent guy but as much as I think to myself that being the sole breadwinner and doing "bath and bed time" is hard work I can't conceive of needing to track nap lengths and frequency. How many wet/dirty nappies have been changed and when, which boob was fed from last time, making sure the baby is getting fore and hind milk, etc. That's not even including research ON breastfeeding, baby led weaning, vaccinations PLUS meeting with child health nurses and doctors and organising family time while still allowing for naps and so on and so on...

My wife, very matter of factly told me that with three kids at home (one a baby) she doesn't think about sex for herself and forgets about it entirely (doesn't prioritise it for US).

She's certainly trying harder and I'm trying to take point on different things to alleviate her emotional labour but I'm still planning on being patient and seeing how the next few years go. Once our youngest is no longer breastfeeding or waking up through the night I'd EXPECT our sexlife to improve. If it hasn't or doesn't then I'll have another talk to my wife.

It's comforting to me to know that I'm not the only dad that went through completely sexless pregnancies and afterward. I would get so upset hearing about couples who couldn't wait to be cleared by their doctor to have sex post birth. I too had 15 to 16 month breaks from sex. Then only to have sex once and then sexless for several more months.

It was when all my kids were in school that I realized that even if my wife has 8 hours without the kids and only two with the kids before I'm home from work that we still wouldn't have a sexlife. That caused me to rethink my life. I was never going to be happy with sex 8 to 10 times a year.

It's comforting to me to know that I'm not the only dad that went through completely sexless pregnancies and afterward. I would get so upset hearing about couples who couldn't wait to be cleared by their doctor to have sex post birth. I too had 15 to 16 month breaks from sex. Then only to have sex once and then sexless for several more months.

It was when all my kids were in school that I realized that even if my wife has 8 hours without the kids and only two with the kids before I'm home from work that we still wouldn't have a sexlife. That caused me to rethink my life. I was never going to be happy with sex 8 to 10 times a year.

That's my fear. That the 'habit' of living together without sex becomes the norm for us. I'm hoping that laying it all out last week will kickstart things soon. It'll be telling as to whether sex continues after the first rush though...

Yeah but a decent chunk of the posters here are entitled assholes. And they get called out for it, as they should. And no, people shouldn’t ignore it if multiple people are picking up on something and bring it to attention. The old saying if everyone you meet is an asshole then maybe you’re the problem applies here.

That would break the rules and 2. many of them are not regular posters. And like, why do I need to do that when you can scroll through recent posts and find them all over the place. Believe me and others who see it often, or don't. But don't think you're entitled enough to my time to tell me to hunt down things to fit your irrelevant criteria.

Just want to say I’m one of those whose libido tanked after having a baby.

Reading here from HLs gave me much needed insight into what my husband was feeling (he sucked at expressing his frustrations and mental state - he’s working on that). I realized what I was doing to him.

Just because you're pregnant doesn't mean "OMG he wants sex, and I'm dealing with all this? what a selfish ass". Just because you had a kid 4 months ago doesn't mean "OMG I'm dealing with so much and he wants sex, of all things. What a jerk". You want to be a single mom? Because that's how you become a single mom. A partner can't just flip their sex drive off because you're dealing with stuff. They can be understanding, and cool it for a bit but asking for zero contact for 9+ months is a recipe for single motherhood.

Listen here guys,

Just because you're so busy at work doesn't mean "OMG I just want to relax after work and she wants sex? Why can't I just get a break". Just because you found a new interest doesn't mean she gets the leftovers, and if you're viewing porn but haven't touched her in weeks you're fucked up. Get your head out of your ass because that's how she cheats on you, divorces you and takes half your shit. Because you ignored her.

Both scenarios the partner just expects the other to shut down their sex drive and if they don't they get shouted down. Well I shout back. I don't give a shit what you have going on. I'll be understanding, for a time, but I'k not a robot with an off switch there. No I'm not "entitled" to sex, but I'll be damned if you're going to shout me down and tell me my desire for sex with the person I love is wrong or selfish. You can fuck off with that shit. Having a sex drive is healthy and normal. If you want me to subvert it, it'll end up coming out in other ways and may even lead to infidelity and/or divorce.

Pregnancy is not a good enough reason to end sex (unless directed by a doctor)

New baby is not a good enough reason to end sex

Long days are work are not a good enough reason to end sex

Hobbies are not a good enough reason to end sex

Porn is not a good enough reason to end sex

Not unless you're wanting to kill your marriage. Making a unilateral choice to end sex long term without their input is making a unilateral choice to treat your partner's sex drive as a disgusting thing and abusive.

You negotiated and received consent to have sex. It is now part of the bedrock foundation of your relationship. Ending it will rock that relationship to its foundations and should not be done unilaterally.

Not unless you're wanting to kill your marriage. Making a unilateral choice to end sex long term without their input is making a unilateral choice to treat your partner's sex drive as a disgusting thing and abusive.

This is the part that's all too often overlooked. Regardless of who's being the "asshole" or "insensitive" about someone's sudden lack of desire, when it's all said and done, if it doesn't return the relationship is very likely to end and the onus is almost entirely on the refusing partner.

I get it. What people fail to realize is that yes, you can stop having sex whenever you want...but in a relagthat decision also affects your partner. It's not made in a vacuum, so those effects must be taken into account.

To just throw up your hands and stop, and expect them to "just deal with it" is a fundamental rejection of the intimacy of the relationship and the part you play in it.

Here's the problem: My ex-husband was turned-off/grossed out by my body during pregnancy and breastfeeding. Fact. Now I could have taken your approach and said, "Fuck me or else I'm leaving" and then what? It would have made the issue of sex into a wedge between us. He would have either forced himself to have sex with me despite his disgust or he would have refused. If he had forced himself, his aversion to me would have no doubt become irreparable. If he had refused and I followed through with my ultimatum, we would have split up.

Instead, I chose to accept the situation and not make a big deal out of it. And sure enough, as I regained my normal appearance and the kids got a bit older, his desire for me came back. And by the time the kids were around 2 years old, we had a happy, frequent sex life again.

So you can turn sex into a battle if you like, but in most cases it's pretty stupid to do that. Because pressure and coercion is the opposite of what leads to good, wanted, and fun sex.

But there is no way to know that when you have your first child. If I had asked him, when our baby was a newborn, "How long are you going to be grossed out by sex with me?", he would have had no framework to answer. Maybe in a month or maybe forever, who knows?

The correct answer was that his attraction started to come back when I got my figure back and my breasts weren't leaking anymore. And then things got much, much better when our kid was 2 and wasn't constantly in my arms.

Neither one of us knew this in advance, but I just trusted the process and it worked out. If it hadn't gotten better, I might have divorced, but I would NOT have demanded sex from a man who didn't want me. I've done that before and will never demean myself like that again.

This is the whole point. The post doesn't address you in the situation at all. The onus is (was) on him. I never suggested demanding sex. The post essentially points out to the refusing partner the full ramifications of their choices and actions while calling B.S. on some pretty wet noodle excuses.

What were you suggesting then? It sure sounded like demanding sex to me.

But I, and I think this is true for many people, don't want sex if our partner isn't into it and especially not if he/she is actively repulsed by it. And that's often the case during those first two years after childbirth, whether it's the man or woman who is turned off. It's Nature's way of child spacing. Nature doesn't know that humans invented reliable birth control less than 100 years ago.

I've noticed a sharp rise in hysteria from certain people here because there is now a small portion of redditors on the sub who will bring a different perspective by defending LLs in some cases. It seems like a lot of the people here became too accustomed to this sub being an echo chamber for HLs to circlejerk about being victims even if they are clearly contributing to their own sad situation.

Sorry, but if LLs are still being downvoted to oblivion for posting here, I'm not going to start crying because an entitled HLs decently upvoted post has SOME comments about entitlement. If this post had been about how LLs are scared to post here, we wouldn't even be able to see it unless we sorted by "controversial" - So maybe don't complain that post visibility = different opinions.

I'm not complaining that post visibility = different opinions, just pointing out the fact that there are HL who are also afraid to post here because they get swarmed by people calling them insensitive assholes.

I can honestly say I have never seen someone here called that, and I'm sure it would be removed if it happened. what is so bad about trying to educate new fathers with babies about the reality of what they and their partner are dealing with? surely that is better than letting them stew in resentment due to not having a clue what is really going on? and lets not conflate this with older children, this only comes up when it applies to a baby in the house, no one would say she has ppd, is breastfeeding, still has fucked hormones and is fatigued when the kid is older (at least not from anything I have ever seen here)

If seen it ( maybe not the precise phrase) and it is an inappropriate response. Those of us who have had children need to explain that having a new baby is going to change many things in your life and sex can be one of them. It is unrealistic to expect that things will return to the way they were after a child arrives.

Bot parents have to accept some level of responsibility for getting things back on some kind of track. The sex post-baby may not be as exciting or voluminous as it was before but is often more fulfilling if both parents work on it. The same will apply to the rest of their relationship and things that they do together.

Berating the fathers and mothers to get back into line accomplishes little.

I'd just like to point out there are also many HL who are afraid to post on this sub because they see so many instances of HL who think having sex is part of a normal, healthy marriage get called selfish, entitled assholes.

This iis exactly why I don't post my own on this sub. The one time I as the HL tried looking for some support and I received plenty of comments that it was all my fault. It came under the guise of "help" but it really was more like a kick in the nuts. I really just wanted a little support that I was not alone.

I wholeheartedly second this. My one deleted post contained as many pertinent facts as I could muster, including my battle with depression and the recent loss of my father. After not quite a dozen comments about “depression is a turn-off” on the nice end, and “who wants to fuck some sad sap” on the other end, I just deleted it.

And then I periodically see people saying rule 2 is stupid. Pointless when left unenforced, perhaps, but stupid? I disagree.

Marriage is all about monogamy, at least usually. Marriage is not about celibacy. If there is no cleaving unto me going on they have broken their vows. Sex inside a marriage is the expected norm. If you don't want sex, don't get married.

When I walked down the aisle in my wedding dress I did not know I was marrying into the convent. No one told me. When I realized this had happened I did not know how to handle. This has affected me for many years.

One of the symptoms of breastfeeding is low libido. The hormones you get to produce breastmilk and bond with your baby make it hard to get wet or even think about sex in general.

I raised the same intimacy concerns with my midwife and doctor and got the same spiel about better for the baby, improves IQ, is less costly, and I got the guilt trip from both my mother and mother in law. We read a pamplet for men and on breastfeeding it specifically said for my husband to leave me alone and be understanding.

I think there is a lot more to it than one person is selfish or another person is selfish. It's just an unfortunate thing that happens.

That pamphlet should give techniques to find some way for spouses who are breastfeeding to incorporate occasional intimacy along the way. While it’s good for a pamphlet to warn both spouses about the effects on libido, it is not reasonable to merely say “leave me alone for 9 more months.. after many weeks post partum and infrequent months of pregnancy”

I do think this sub can be hard on new fathers at times. There's this whole societal clusterf going on with the isolation of the nuclear family, where parents are very much on their own with their babies compared to previous generations. So we've figured out that new moms need lots of support, but new dads don't really have anywhere to go or anyone to talk to about their own feelings and frustrations during a time of significant change and stress in their own lives. And as others have touched on here, there's a big lack of education about postpartum recovery. I think the "6 weeks until sex" soundbite is out there and a lot of otherwise-smart and compassionate people see that as a guideline and are nonplussed when months or a year go by and things aren't bouncing back.

I also think the "raison d'etre" for this sub is a topic of regular dispute. Some people want to post here just to blow off steam about their situations at home, and have no one they can talk to IRL. They want to complain and commiserate and don't necessarily want a lot of "feedback" or "advice" about their relationships. And that's not necessarily a bad or wrong thing. Sometimes we all just wanna bitch about things instead of troubleshoot. But others want and welcome the different perspectives, want constructive feedback, want suggestions as to how to improve things or do things differently in their relationships. Some post here wanting to know if they're approaching something badly or making mistakes, want to talk to people who are similar to their LL SOs and can shed some light on where they might be going wrong.

Aaaand some LLs want to post here for suggestions as to what they can do to get things going again, want to complain about their HL SOs, want to understand the "other side" better, want to provide a different POV to the commonly-discussed issues here. I don't like the idea of chasing them off the sub. Based on what a lot of the LLs here have posted, they're suffering too, just in a different way. If someone does want help (HL or LL), where else are they supposed to go? Would an all-LL sub be able to provide the same type of help? If this sub became a closed group of frustrated HLs, would it be as helpful?

You have to realize there’s a lot of hidden LL’s on here who’s only intention is to make HL’s seem selfish and terrible partners. They are very easy to spot by how they respond to everyone. Anyone who defends a partner who stops having sex after having a child are delusional. Yes babies are work but if you have zero time for sex because of a baby you’re doing something totally wrong. You didn’t quit having sex because of the baby, you quit because you decided your relationship comes second to being a parent. Being a good parent involves being a good partner as well. If you people actually cared about having a healthy upbringing for your children you wouldn’t throw your marriage down the drain and involve them in shared custody and constant fighting. Giving up sex to focus on being a parent isn’t being a good parent it’s you being a moron thinking your partner is going to still remain the same loving person as they were.

You don’t see them post here? The “I’m a LL and I’m here to justify my rejection”. You see them in almost every thread talking about how their job is hard, they don’t need to provide sex, sex needs to be earned etc. They never post about their own story just about how it’s just fine to be the refuser.

I’ve been there and done it and guess what doesn’t fix it? Marriage problems on top of everything else. It’s baffling how people think creating other problems somehow fixes other problems. Sad reality is, people use their pregnancy or children as an excuse to cut sex off. It’s a perfect excuse because it doesn’t go away ever. Who the hell thinks raising kids is easy? It’s not easy and I knew that long before having children. I wasn’t surprised when I never got sleep or when I had a sick baby up all night with a fever throwing up. Not once during those years did I think to myself that hey I can go without sex now. That’s the difference between somebody that enjoys sex and somebody that only used sex to get everything else they wanted.

It doesn’t increase a libido but it definitely relieves stress that helps maintain a libido. Only reason the sex dies is because it wasn’t something you cared about to begin with. This doesn’t apply to those who’s hormones take a negative shift after giving birth. That’s totally understandable and expected. What’s not understandable is never seeing a doctor and having it corrected. My wife for example, doctors told her she needed to be on replacement hormones because of PCOS and guess what she’s done about it? Not a damn thing. It’s not even about her doing it to have a sex drive, it’s her doing it for her health. You’d think the risk of getting cancer would scare her into taking the medication but nope still doesn’t care.

Progestoren I believe to help reverse some of the hormone effects of PCOS. She didn’t like it because it made her have a period for 2 weeks. I get it but there’s a reason your body is acting that way because it’s been starved for hormones. Might be something you could look into to help reverse the hormone imbalance from PCOS.

If you’re so unhappy why don’t you leave? She can threaten all you want, if you have an attorney and you’re a good dad you will get 50/50.

Calling your wife a mooch, bitch, etc. and staying out all night makes you the bad guy. It does. Regardless of what she’s done you’re stooping to her level. In no marriage is it alright to go out with a group and stay out all night partying or smoking bowls with your female hair stylist. It’s completely inappropriate and immature as far as marriage is concerned. If she’s so terrible stop stooping to her level and move forward and be happy. From your quick history I read you’re clearly miserable so move on and don’t allow her to manipulate you by alimony and custody threats. With a good attorney you will get your rights as a father and alimony, well, she’s entitled to what she’s legally entitled too. Is money worth more then happiness anyway?

Free yourself as it’s very clear you checked out of the marriage some time ago and so did she. You’re probably making her just as miserable as she is you so obviously nothing is going to change.

Hmm, that has tinges of Borderline Personality Disorder. Let me guess, before you were married, she seemed just so perfect in every way and you were the center of her world. Then, once you were married, she ratcheted up the jealousy and things weren't quite as rosy, but a kid, she was sure, would just fix everything...

because he feels that we are rational beings that can choose what we do?

he never said it wasn't hard, he said you could choose to give up, or choose to fight.

yes, childbirth can mess with libido, he acknowledges that, but also says if you put in the work, and choose to prioritize it, it won't because you don't let it, like not eating right and exercising as you age

No, because apparently he thinks that mothers putting on weight after birth are just lazy.. Also, he doesn't take into account crazy hormones for up to a year or more after birth, birth complications to either mother or child, post partum depression, there's so so many factors that he's just brushing to the side like they don't exist and it isn't right or fair to any woman who has gone through these things. Not to mention that attraction is subjective. Not all women are skinny and hot, and not all men like skinny women. There literally so many things wrong with his bs statements that I am probably missing quite a few.

E: also he doesn't even mention LL men.. like women are the only ones with this issue.. for real people need to educate themselves before spouting off nonsense.

I read your post history and agree with you on being athletic. People, especially women, just don't want to hear that being fat can be a huge turnoff. You have every right to not want to fuck someone who has gained a lot of weight.

A support group for Redditors who are coping with a relationship that is seriously lacking in sexual intimacy. Advice is always appreciated, just don't be surprised if we've heard it all.
This subreddit is intended for all genders and sexual orientations, and supports all approaches. You will find frank discussion of supportive needs-driven methods, assertive seduction-based methods, and infidelity. Whatever gets you through.