Given that we (mostly) all agree that we feel uncomfortable when looking at super long lens paparazzi shots of Royals when they're in private, why do we then feel that we're entitled to listen into and pour over illegally obtained telephone conversations?

I don't know that any of us feel entitled to pore over such conversations. However, these have all been in the public forum for quite some time and it was not known to us that these were illegally obtained. Are you suggesting that we must vet the source of every newspaper article, blog posting, Internet news, or broadcast news before proceeding with listening/viewing?

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__________________"Me, your Highness? On the whole, I wish I'd stayed in Tunbridge Wells"

I don't know that any of us feel entitled to pore over such conversations. However, these have all been in the public forum for quite some time and it was not known to us that these were illegally obtained. Are you suggesting that we must vet the source of every newspaper article, blog posting, Internet news, or broadcast news before proceeding with listening/viewing?

I was under the impression that it was known at the time that they were illegally obtained - it certainly was known within days of the Charles/Camilla and Diana/Gilbey tapes that they had been illegally obtained and as I had never heard anything about a tape between Andrew and Sarah I won't comment on that.

The first time I heard of these tapes the comments from my friends and colleagues was about the legality of gaining them.

I was under the impression that it was known at the time that they were illegally obtained - it certainly was known within days of the Charles/Camilla and Diana/Gilbey tapes that they had been illegally obtained and as I had never heard anything about a tape between Andrew and Sarah I won't comment on that.

The first time I heard of these tapes the comments from my friends and colleagues was about the legality of gaining them.

'Twas my recollection that the story about all of these leaked whatevers was that someone sort of picked them up on their scanner or "ham" style radios. The alternative explanation was that an intelligence agency had surveilled them but were careless in their handling and then they came into the public domain.

We know now, of course, that it wasn't true, but I do remember my sister's baby monitor picking up all kinds of fascinating information from the relatively new cell phone and/or cordless phone technology of the time! And let me tell you, the range that the monitor picked up was completely bizzare; at one point, we picked up a CBC broadcast and we lived in Virginia!

__________________"Me, your Highness? On the whole, I wish I'd stayed in Tunbridge Wells"

I never heard of a taped conversation between Sarah and Andrew. Dear gawd! I'm surprised these people still talk on the phone. I will never understand how these people who did this got away with it. Why did it take the NotW so long to be put out of business?!?!

Because the lines of law and decency were totally blurred. The tapes of Diana. Charles and any others were all illegally obtained yet did we see or hear calls for criminal charges to be laid. No one cared because they just wanted to hear and dish the dirt.

Now, along comes NOTW illegally accessing voice mail and it's hangings at dawn, why? Because "innocent" people were targeted. If this strikes you as hypocritical you would be correct but that is an indictment of our moral compass.

We let the media get so out of hand when it fed our endless greed for dirt on the royals or celebrities, that when stories about the "innocent" arose, they felt free to use the same tactics.

People got hurt, used and abused and finally we develop a spine!

Oh well, better late than never!

__________________MARG"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes

Private conversations should never be listened in on, and the instant a person understands that's what they're listening to, they should have qualms about the source. I'm not saying a person should be compelled to put their fingers in their ears - once the cat is out of the bag, it is unavoidable to hear things. But, no one should feel good about doing so.

At the same time, a person ought not to view a cell phone call as private (or a wireless phone on a land line, either). They are not. They are easily listened in on. Save the embarrassing stuff for more private moments.

That may not be so easy. Both she and Andrew stumbled into marriage and thought of it as a game. They both hurt one another a lot.

Of course they should have tried to have a proper family life away from the military, or nearer to his work.

What a sad story....only it's reality...

If I remember correctly Sarah wanted to live on the base and be a navy wife but the security was against the idea so she was forced into the isolation of BP without the support network of the other wives whose husbands were serving with Andrew.

I had thought that it was perhaps Prince Andrew that didn't want his wife to live on base and mix with the other wives.

The interview that they did prior to the wedding came across to me of two people who very much wanted to live on the base or for her to live there when he was away - my understanding is that that is what they both wanted.

I remember reading somewhere that HM was very surprised that Sarah did not want to live on the base with Andrew, because HM had so enjoyed that time of her life with the DoE. Even at the time of her marriage, Sarah wanted to be somebody and live the good life...that's not the description of a navy wife.

Pehaps it was that way when she married Andrew - who knows? I am beginning to doubt that she married for love, at least not love as I understand it. She was swept up in a drama, and she got a lot out of that marriage. Seems to be a pattern slowly winding down.

I think that you hit the nail on the head. Around the time that they were married, Sarah's father made the comment that "Sarah was 'in love' with the royal family'.

I think she is still in "love" with the RF and is relying very heavily on the girls to keep her around that lifestyle. I don't see how the Queen would deny Sarah living on base, she herself did it and loved it. I am sure I read that it was Sarah wanting to stay in London because Andrew was at sea most of the time anyway so there was no point to living on base. Besides she loved living at BP using the stationery and inviting friend over etc. With 6 people in her entourage she still likes having people around her to do her bidding. I don't think Sarah has learnt anything from her time with Oprah but has enough money for awhile at least.

I think she is still in "love" with the RF and is relying very heavily on the girls to keep her around that lifestyle. I don't see how the Queen would deny Sarah living on base, she herself did it and loved it. I am sure I read that it was Sarah wanting to stay in London because Andrew was at sea most of the time anyway so there was no point to living on base. Besides she loved living at BP using the stationery and inviting friend over etc. With 6 people in her entourage she still likes having people around her to do her bidding. I don't think Sarah has learnt anything from her time with Oprah but has enough money for awhile at least.

With all respect, Meadow, my impression is that Sarah is in love with Sarah and simply uses the BRF, her daughters and the media to facilitate that lifestyle. When she thought she herself and/or various others were capable of providing that lifestyle without the constraints imposed on a member of the BRF - she was very, very quick to jettison Andrew and the rest of the family. Only after failures to cope on her own (sometimes with her own efforts but also through other people such as the Wyatts) has she returned to her "I love Andrew" refrain. Perhaps she never realised it was her very membership in the BRF that attracted names like Wyatt to her "friendship". It is sad to see that at fifty one she still defines herself through the prism of the media.

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post; she hasn't learned a thing and will only be "okay" until the current money runs out, which at her rate of spending will not take very long.

I agree with you Aliza that is what I was trying to say. How hard did Sarah actually try to go back to plain old Sarah. All her money making ventures have involved using her title and connections. Once her debt had cleared she could have cut down and led a more private life. I think she is addicted to the fame and attention the press give her and the lifestyle she seems to think she is entitled to as a mother of two Princesses. Sarah had no need to do this interview here in Australia her book according to her is already out. Besides the old Sarah had troubles to start with and didn't want to be plain old Sarah. She went out with a millionaire for a reason. Funny how now even according to her in this interview it is hard for men to put up with her and of course the press. But others have coped very well with a love life it depends on how you bandy it about and if you use it to get press attention. Sarah has had boyfriends over they years it is simply that none wanted to marry her. I think her well known overspending doesn't help her cause. With six staff to support she will soon be in the same trouble she was before there is no reason why she needs this many. How is she even covering their pays? It once again will soon be a case of too much outlay and not enough income. No wonder she can never afford to rent a place.

For some reason whenever I think of Sarah lately the words "emotional blackmail" come to mind. She loved being royal but I think she finds it very hard to accept criticism, and she mistook help for criticism when she was still married. She wants to be adored by everyone and given in to whatever whim comes to mind. "Sarah wants, Sarah gets" seems to be a good motto for her.
It could have been so different, she declared just before her marriage that she "would never change" that is one promise she will never break. I am sorry for her daughters, they love their mother and have been brought up to believe that she adores them and they must do everything to keep that adoration. Once again the words "emotional blackmail" come to mind. I sincerely hope that both girls will marry someone who will give them the love they crave and make them very happy and more independent of their mother's approval. So far Dave seems ideal for Beatrice, let us hope so but I hope he will never offer money to help Sarah out, if he does it will be never ending and could lead to unhappiness.

A couple of minor points from what members have said above: I am quite sure that if Sarah had wanted to live 'on base' that the Queen would immediately have permitted it. Apart from the fact that she herself began her career as a 'naval wife', I am sure that she would have done everything she could to grant Sarah's reasonable requests. Don't forget that with the Wales' marriage RAPIDLY unravelling behind the scenes, I am sure the Queen would have been anxious to faciliate ANY reasonable request made by Sarah. For a start, I am certain that despite what I have seen one or two people mentioning here as a reason, there would be no security worries on a naval base. For my own part, I can never even remember Sarah wanting to live on base as ever being an issue - I never remember hearing it raised in either the press or by the Palace and my boss never raised it. However, if there ever was such a question raised, IMHO I rather think that the newly-married Sarah, [an inveterate party-girl] with brand new Royal title and (to her) almost limitless funds, with her friends all in London [when they were not vacationing in the Alps or Ibiza etc] and with her close-royal buddy Diana nearby in KP, would have elected to stay in London, and NOT the other way about [i.e. with Sarah being the one wanting to live on base!!]

Whilst it is hard for me to adduce direct evidence in support of my case, my gut feeling - particularly based on the rapidity of the way the Sarah's relationship developed - is that she married the man as much for his position as for love. That is not to say that she did not experience what I would call 'loving feelings for him', but I do know from what people at Guards Polo Club began saying as soon as the cracks started appearing in the relationship that 'Sarah would not have looked twice at Andrew' had he not be Royal........ Proving this is hard, but Sarah's enjoyment of the Royal Status and Perks, coupled with her disinclination to undertake the relatively small number of Royal Duties demanded of her with much good grace does leave me to feel that there is more than a grain of truth in what people said:

As a side note: Royal Duties are not ''workers' playtime" but at Sarah's level they are not too hard either: I think that most of us think of a Royal Duty based as an ADDITION to what we have to do on our own busy lives, which can make it seem burdensome: don't forget that whilst back at your base a full staff is taking care of all the domestic matters [cleaning, cooking, food ordering, laundry etc] someone has brought your fuelled car, complete with chauffeur, right to your doorstep, an umbrella will be held so you don't get wet, your staff will have timed everything, worked out your route, briefed you, organised refreshment and 'comfort stops' for you etc. You will be perfectly groomed and wearing fashionable and expensive Designer or even couture clothing, all kept in perfect order by your dresser. Your haidresser will have attended on YOU - no trip to the Salon to be fitted in. Your private Secretary and Lady-in-Waiting and personal detective will all be at hand during the engagment. Usually a Press Secretary as well. On arrival, you are warmly welcomed by people really pleased and grateful to see you, curtsied-to, thanked profusely etc and then in return simply have to shake a few hands, smile and be pleasant, receive a bouquet from your hosts [often with a little piece of jewellery hidden inside!!] and/or other little presents. [sometimes quite generous]. People are pleased to see you, they cheer you, they give you flowers and the whole engagement is probably closely related to your interests [the Princess of Wales used to 'corner the market' in child and illness related matters for example]. And when you get home, there will be acres of fawning newsprint praising your 'hard work', when a lot of this in fact has been done by your staff........... In short, it is not a bad life - look how Princess Michael of Kent, who, when she married was not expected or required to do ANY royal duties at all, quickly did her level best to build up a round of 'royal' work. It can be fun and quite 'lucrative'. I have been present at a good many Royal occasions and can tell you that from what I have observed, unless the occasion is a solemn one [e.g. aftermath of a disaster etc] it is quite a good life, often in some very interesting places.

Second side note: I think that Sarah had up to 15 staff at the point where Andrew took over when Sarah became virtually bankrupt after the 'Fake Sheikh scandal' - from memory it was 15 members of staff who had to be sacked. Some of the staff with her at the moment, particularly from the sound of them, are provided by her publisher: for example, I would not expect Sarah to have a 'publicist' present - it sounds like an add-on from her book publisher.

Thirdly: living off her daughters' trust funds: English trust law does have strict rules about who can be a beneficiary of a trust, which is as much caught up with tax rules rather than anything else. I think that official palace Legal eyes will be watching to make sure that Trust Property is not being put to an inappropriate use.

Fourthly: Related also to the above, Sarah's income ,given as £100,000pa in a quotation attributed to Sarah, will not, in my very humble opinion, last long with Sarah's current level of spending; for example, very often the expenses of a publicity tour, [hotel, travel, presence of the publisher's staff etc] are then all deducted from the proceeds of the book sale. Sarah's projected earnings could therefore be vastly reduced from what she is expecting. Hotels, First Class Travel and Food plus 6 staff 'don't come cheap'. To me, even if the needle is not quite yet stuck in the groove, it is certainly nearing the end of the record, so to speak!!

Fifthly: Although I have NO formal proof of this, I am sure that Sarah's latest escapades will be being discussed at some length at Balmoral. Traditionally, the Queen is always rather diffident at intervening, but I am sure that both the Queen's staff and certainly Prince Philip, will be thinking that this state of affairs cannot continue. In the tabloids yesterday and at the weekend, there were pictures of Andrew 'canoodling' with 'beauties' on exotic holidays etc. To me, I wonder whether the fact that he enabled himself to be thus-photographed was his own way of letting Sarah know that their [supposed] 'close' relationship is based only on that of a couple who have a civilised divorce arrangement, rather than the 'hinted-at closeness' peddled by Sarah over the past few months - her (alleged) closeness to the BRF is her greatest stock-in-trade - as is clearly evidenced by the way she is often photographed clutching the hands of her daughters.... (I am reminded of that old English comedy film of a father who followed his newly-married daughter on honeymoon ....'and father came too....')

I end with my usual disclaimer: just my thoughts and not meant to offend.