tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post7164143861296833063..comments2015-03-03T14:33:22.801-05:00Comments on Boston 1775: “Instead, he cites Annette Gordon-Reed?” J. L. Bellnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-18880174194684509082012-12-08T14:36:18.387-05:002012-12-08T14:36:18.387-05:00John Fea alerted me to another forum where this de...John Fea alerted me to another forum where this debate is playing out. <a href="http://theamericanscholar.org/confounding-father/" rel="nofollow"><i>The American Scholar</i> has published</a> T. H. Breen’s favorable review of <i>Master of the Mountain</i> and Lucia Stanton’s forceful response.J. L. Bellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-82152168615115397402012-12-07T08:06:11.313-05:002012-12-07T08:06:11.313-05:00I couldn&#39;t agree more that context is importan...I couldn&#39;t agree more that context is important. So far this discussion has been based on snippets people have presented online--it&#39;s important to read &quot;Master of the Mountain&quot; to get the full context of the debate. HSWiencekhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14483994336027989051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-80501421633567083002012-12-07T00:55:44.285-05:002012-12-07T00:55:44.285-05:00Again, context is important. In their Salon essay ...Again, context is important. In their Salon essay on the historiographical debate, Andrew Burstein and Nancy Isenberg write: “But in its design to shock, ‘Master of the Mountain’ rashly removes the conversation from the long-active scholarly community, by self-consciously claiming that Wiencek, as historical detective, has smoked out a criminal.”<br /><br />It appears self-important to suggest that a “TJ establishment” is opposed to presenting “unsettling documents” and facts before the reading public when that group consists of <i>people who have written books about Thomas Jefferson’s slaveholding</i>. <br /><br />If “average readers” are stating that they’ve never read about how Jefferson treated his enslaved workers or denigrated African-Americans, that means they haven’t read the books on those topics by Annette Gordon-Reed, Jan E. Lewis, Lucia Stanton, Gary Nash and Graham Russell Hodges, Andrew Burstein, David Waldstreicher, and others. It’s not because those authors have ever tried to keep that history from public view and consideration. They’ve done quite the opposite. <br /><br /><i>Master of the Mountain</i> presents a new theory of when Jefferson turned against slavery and why. It should be possible to present that theory without writing off more than a decade of previous scholarship and to defend it without claiming that the authors of those books portrayed “Jefferson as a kindly master of black slaves.” That may work with readers who haven’t read those books, but it doesn’t work with anyone who has.J. L. Bellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-47789970814911830602012-12-05T19:09:46.025-05:002012-12-05T19:09:46.025-05:00Take a look at the comments on my &quot;response t...Take a look at the comments on my &quot;response to critics&quot; on the Smithsonian Magazine website:<br /><br />http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/Henry-Wiencek-Responds-to-His-Critics-179166141.htmlHSWiencekhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14483994336027989051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-195677437466597332012-12-05T19:06:06.005-05:002012-12-05T19:06:06.005-05:00I disagree that it&#39;s &quot;excellent.&quot; Th...I disagree that it&#39;s &quot;excellent.&quot; Their basic complaint is here: “&#39;Master of the Mountain&#39; rashly removes the conversation from the long-active scholarly community.&quot; They are upset that unsettling documents are put before the public without prior filtering through the TJ establishment. Burstein and Isenberg sense they are losing control of the narrative. The response from average readers has been: We were never told these things before.HSWiencekhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14483994336027989051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-18630508104354719022012-12-05T17:46:38.581-05:002012-12-05T17:46:38.581-05:00Salon has published an excellent historiographical...Salon has published an <a href="http://www.salon.com/2012/12/03/the_thomas_jefferson_wars/" rel="nofollow">excellent historiographical discussion</a> of the current debate over Jefferson as a slaveholder.J. L. Bellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-2788740041832127692012-12-05T17:45:24.793-05:002012-12-05T17:45:24.793-05:00I think Marilyn Richardson&#39;s comment was a res...I think Marilyn Richardson&#39;s comment was a response to my posting, not the preceding comment. J. L. Bellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-6426043597561438572012-12-02T18:51:00.115-05:002012-12-02T18:51:00.115-05:00Marilyn - What Park Service issue are you referrin...Marilyn - What Park Service issue are you referring to? <br />HenryHSWiencekhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14483994336027989051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-38970143701125057422012-12-01T15:02:35.384-05:002012-12-01T15:02:35.384-05:00And you see no way in which such entrenched resist...And you see no way in which such entrenched resistance to, and dismissal of, black agency could be said to echo through a recent Park Service kerfuffle?<br /><br />History continues to rhyme. As informed and astute as you are, I do wonder what you choose to ignore, and for what motives. Expediency can be brutal.Marilyn Richardsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12672733824755938091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-18811733786222299702012-12-01T14:21:52.676-05:002012-12-01T14:21:52.676-05:00A quick response. 1) I didn&#39;t tell Schuessler ...A quick response. 1) I didn&#39;t tell Schuessler that the AGR errors were &quot;minor.&quot; Quite the opposite. 2) I don&#39;t hear any irony at all in &quot;kinder, gentler slavery.&quot; 3) I have fully rebutted all the points raised by AGR and Lewis and Stanton. 4) Please read my book for the full story. Henry WiencekHSWiencekhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14483994336027989051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-36611187163777119212012-12-01T10:52:04.022-05:002012-12-01T10:52:04.022-05:00Thanks for that link. I saw it online last night a...Thanks for <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/01/opinion/the-real-thomas-jefferson.html" rel="nofollow">that link</a>. I saw it online last night and was struck by the irony of a scholar dismissing Wiencek as <i>too mild</i> on Jefferson.<br /><br />Finkelman is best known for his analysis of the U.S. Constitution as written to preserve slavery and the power of slaveholders. He&#39;s a &quot;no quarter&quot; type of guy.J. L. Bellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-39071028646788421452012-12-01T09:19:45.824-05:002012-12-01T09:19:45.824-05:00Albany Law School Professor Paul Finkelman has a p...Albany Law School Professor Paul Finkelman has a piece in today&#39;s New York Times that makes no apologies for Mr. Jefferson: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/01/opinion/the-real-thomas-jefferson.html?hp&amp;_r=0G. Lovelynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-34478596317072477752012-11-30T15:14:20.602-05:002012-11-30T15:14:20.602-05:00Thanks very much for that link. The paradoxes of J...Thanks very much for <a href="http://fannyharvilleunschool.blogspot.com/2012/10/thomas-jefferson-and-challenges-of.html" rel="nofollow">that link</a>. The paradoxes of Jefferson&#39;s life are indeed troubling, especially for young folk at a stage of more strictly defined moral development. Very interesting to read about that perspective.J. L. Bellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-76258301188198354832012-11-30T14:40:19.025-05:002012-11-30T14:40:19.025-05:00I just discovered your blog and I have to immediat...I just discovered your blog and I have to immediately chime in to say I agree entirely with your assessment. Weincek&#39;s response at the Smithsonian website was almost worse than his original treatment of the scholarship. I wrote about reading the excerpt in Smithsonian with my 8-yr-old son here: http://fannyharvilleunschool.blogspot.com/2012/10/thomas-jefferson-and-challenges-of.htmlJessica Richardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10777557361995178390noreply@blogger.com