@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The other thing that should be mentioned, is Cassano drops deep when Italy are defending which will give them an ever greater number advantage.

You are all talking about Italy from a defensive stand point in midfield but how about going forward? With Cassano picking up Schweignsteiger and De Rossi and Marchisio picking up Khedira and Ozil.

The thing you are talking about mus'nt happen from a Germany standpoint happens again..... Pirlo is free with a cigar in his mouth.

That isn't being talked about because Khedira, Schweinsteiger and Ozil will just out run them. Italy don't want to get into a stamina match with Germany they will just flat out lose that. When you are the physically weaker side you don't man mark.

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:As mentioned before if Germany try to pass through Italy they will come unstuck in my eyes as also mentioned before Germany need to use the wingers and fullbacks as much as possible to drag out covering midfielders to expose Pirlo.

And they will do exactly that. Germany have shown they are very dynamic in attack, they can score a goal from almost any angle, left right or center of the pitch. The question will be can Italy keep up with that if they play a diamond. They did against England because England only attacked through one flank and they still couldn't restrict them to no clear chances.

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:What Italy need to do is the exact scenario i mentioned above... if Cassano drops deep and picks up Schweignsteiger ( like i think he will as he usually does) then Germany have a massive problem because the end result will be Pirlo will have massive loads of space.

All well and good in theory but are they actually physically up for it mole? This is still a sport after all.

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Although this tactical view is only really relevant for the first 70 mins because Cassano and Ozil wont last much longer than that..... then the Coaches become important.

Ozil will maintain a high level for 90 minutes and he's done it before a bunch of times. For anyone who has watched him closly this stopped being an issue for a while now.

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:That's if the scoreline is close at this point anyway, if Balotelli has his shooting boots on it would probably be over by half time :lucas :

Actually how efficient Italy's front line is will be important, I don't think they can win if they score zero goals in thirty five attempts like last night lol

EDIT: I would like to add that Germany have looked weak on set pieces, something Italy have been quite decent at so this could be a factor.

Lets get one thing straight, for all who mention Pirlo disappearing in Bernebeau during the first leg of the GS, Allegri was playing what is literally Milan's worst possible formation/line-up. It consisted of a 4-3-3 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Seedorf which was proven the worst possible midfield combination and formation.

If closely followed during that time, this midfield couldn't even dictate against Bologna.

And Pirlo was marked out better by Alonso and not Ozil.

2nd leg was different where Pirlo was dictating the and wasn't really troubled by Ozil's intelligent marking off the ball.

And why is everyone talking about Germany's midfield vs Pirlo as if Pirlo is the only man in midfield?

Has anyone heard of Claudio Marchisio? A technically skilled beast who was vital to Juve's season? Danielle freaking De Rossi? A world class midfielder who is just as good as Schweinstieger?

Anyone see the Germany-Italia friendly where Germany wasn't exactly dominating? (Almost the opposite).

Point being in the end fatigue will be the main point in which is the downfall for Italia. The camp has already complained of fatigue through the tournament and given Italia had to run and gun till the end of extra time against England, Germany will have a substantial advantage there.

Also for this game, Cesare NEEDS to change the formation as the 4-3-1-2 will not be dynamic enough to face Germany.

A 3-5-2 (or 3-4-1-2 MUST be deployed as notable changes would be DDR back to Sweeper role and Motta taking over in midfield while Cassano and Di Natale start.

Arquitecto wrote:Lets get one thing straight, for all who mention Pirlo disappearing in Bernebeau during the first leg of the GS, Allegri was playing what is literally Milan's worst possible formation/line-up. It consisted of a 4-3-3 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Seedorf which was proven the worst possible midfield combination and formation.

If closely followed during that time, this midfield couldn't even dictate against Bologna.

And Pirlo was marked out better by Alonso and not Ozil.

2nd leg was different where Pirlo was dictating the and wasn't really troubled by Ozil's intelligent marking off the ball.

And why is everyone talking about Germany's midfield vs Pirlo as if Pirlo is the only man in midfield?

Has anyone heard of Claudio Marchisio? A technically skilled beast who was vital to Juve's season? Danielle freaking De Rossi? A world class midfielder who is just as good as Schweinstieger?

Anyone see the Germany-Italia friendly where Germany wasn't exactly dominating? (Almost the opposite).

Point being in the end fatigue will be the main point in which is the downfall for Italia. The camp has already complained of fatigue through the tournament and given Italia had to run and gun till the end of extra time against England, Germany will have a substantial advantage there.

Also for this game, Cesare NEEDS to change the formation as the 4-3-1-2 will not be dynamic enough to face Germany.

A 3-5-2 (or 3-4-1-2 MUST be deployed as notable changes would be DDR back to Sweeper role and Motta taking over in midfield while Cassano and Di Natale start.

I already answered it in page two but again. Where did Italy dominate Germany in that friendly? Stats say otherwise. We had more possession+ more goal scoring chances. The one with the most key passes on the pitch was Özil.

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The other thing that should be mentioned, is Cassano drops deep when Italy are defending which will give them an ever greater number advantage.

You are all talking about Italy from a defensive stand point in midfield but how about going forward? With Cassano picking up Schweignsteiger and De Rossi and Marchisio picking up Khedira and Ozil.

The thing you are talking about mus'nt happen from a Germany standpoint happens again..... Pirlo is free with a cigar in his mouth.

As mentioned before if Germany try to pass through Italy they will come unstuck in my eyes as also mentioned before Germany need to use the wingers and fullbacks as much as possible to drag out covering midfielders to expose Pirlo.

What Italy need to do is the exact scenario i mentioned above... if Cassano drops deep and picks up Schweignsteiger ( like i think he will as he usually does) then Germany have a massive problem because the end result will be Pirlo will have massive loads of space.

Although this tactical view is only really relevant for the first 70 mins because Cassano and Ozil wont last much longer than that..... then the Coaches become important.

That's if the scoreline is close at this point anyway, if Balotelli has his shooting boots on it would probably be over by half time :lucas :

Italy could throw all the numbers in midfield they still won't dominate possession. The reason is Germany uses free space wherever it's present. If Italy decide to pack the middle expect lots of Lahm overlapping and overloading of flanks. Italy will be forced to commit players for defending the flanks which will open up the middle. Their 3 men defence would have to stay deeper because Klose/ Gomez and Müller will make runs in behind 100%- The gap between Pirlo, their defence and attackers will get very big. Cassano dropping back isn't a problem because Hummels and Badstuber are excellent game openers.They won't be able to dominate anything. It's like saying Manu would dominate Farca with 4-5-1 formation vs. 4-3-3 just because they have higher numbers in midfield It's still 10 vs. 10. Germany's 10 uses the space a lot better than narrow Italian one. Marchisio, De Rossi etc. will be very busy with Özil and Khedira. They make fast runs to take markers away. Have fun tracking them with Marchisio and De Rossi alone

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The other thing that should be mentioned, is Cassano drops deep when Italy are defending which will give them an ever greater number advantage.

You are all talking about Italy from a defensive stand point in midfield but how about going forward? With Cassano picking up Schweignsteiger and De Rossi and Marchisio picking up Khedira and Ozil.

The thing you are talking about mus'nt happen from a Germany standpoint happens again..... Pirlo is free with a cigar in his mouth.

As mentioned before if Germany try to pass through Italy they will come unstuck in my eyes as also mentioned before Germany need to use the wingers and fullbacks as much as possible to drag out covering midfielders to expose Pirlo.

What Italy need to do is the exact scenario i mentioned above... if Cassano drops deep and picks up Schweignsteiger ( like i think he will as he usually does) then Germany have a massive problem because the end result will be Pirlo will have massive loads of space.

Although this tactical view is only really relevant for the first 70 mins because Cassano and Ozil wont last much longer than that..... then the Coaches become important.

That's if the scoreline is close at this point anyway, if Balotelli has his shooting boots on it would probably be over by half time :lucas :

Italy could throw all the numbers in midfield they still won't dominate possession. The reason is Germany uses free space wherever it's present. If Italy decide to pack the middle expect lots of Lahm overlapping and overloading of flanks. Italy will be forced to commit players for defending the flanks which will open up the middle. Their 3 men defence would have to stay deeper because Klose/ Gomez and Müller will make runs in behind 100%- The gap between Pirlo, their defence and attackers will get very big. Cassano dropping back isn't a problem because Hummels and Badstuber are excellent game openers.They won't be able to dominate anything. It's like saying Manu would dominate Farca with 4-5-1 formation vs. 4-3-3 just because they have higher numbers in midfield It's still 10 vs. 10. Germany's 10 uses the space a lot better than narrow Italian one. Marchisio, De Rossi etc. will be very busy with Özil and Khedira. They make fast runs to take markers away. Have fun tracking them with Marchisio and De Rossi alone

Also, Marchisio is overrated.

Of course, Italy does not have a chance against the great invincible Germans. All Italians are overrated, the Germans are underrated. And, all your LOLing at the Italians makes it even more clear to us that you have the knowledge and the expertise to explain how it will be impossible for Germany to lose.

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The other thing that should be mentioned, is Cassano drops deep when Italy are defending which will give them an ever greater number advantage.

You are all talking about Italy from a defensive stand point in midfield but how about going forward? With Cassano picking up Schweignsteiger and De Rossi and Marchisio picking up Khedira and Ozil.

The thing you are talking about mus'nt happen from a Germany standpoint happens again..... Pirlo is free with a cigar in his mouth.

As mentioned before if Germany try to pass through Italy they will come unstuck in my eyes as also mentioned before Germany need to use the wingers and fullbacks as much as possible to drag out covering midfielders to expose Pirlo.

What Italy need to do is the exact scenario i mentioned above... if Cassano drops deep and picks up Schweignsteiger ( like i think he will as he usually does) then Germany have a massive problem because the end result will be Pirlo will have massive loads of space.

Although this tactical view is only really relevant for the first 70 mins because Cassano and Ozil wont last much longer than that..... then the Coaches become important.

That's if the scoreline is close at this point anyway, if Balotelli has his shooting boots on it would probably be over by half time :lucas :

Italy could throw all the numbers in midfield they still won't dominate possession. The reason is Germany uses free space wherever it's present. If Italy decide to pack the middle expect lots of Lahm overlapping and overloading of flanks. Italy will be forced to commit players for defending the flanks which will open up the middle. Their 3 men defence would have to stay deeper because Klose/ Gomez and Müller will make runs in behind 100%- The gap between Pirlo, their defence and attackers will get very big. Cassano dropping back isn't a problem because Hummels and Badstuber are excellent game openers.They won't be able to dominate anything. It's like saying Manu would dominate Farca with 4-5-1 formation vs. 4-3-3 just because they have higher numbers in midfield It's still 10 vs. 10. Germany's 10 uses the space a lot better than narrow Italian one. Marchisio, De Rossi etc. will be very busy with Özil and Khedira. They make fast runs to take markers away. Have fun tracking them with Marchisio and De Rossi alone

Also, Marchisio is overrated.

Of course, Italy does not have a chance against the great invincible Germans. All Italians are overrated, the Germans are underrated. And, all your LOLing at the Italians makes it even more clear to us that you have the knowledge and the expertise to explain how it will be impossible for Germany to lose.

So much BS at once. Provide some insights. Empty banters don't interest me the least

Arquitecto wrote:Lets get one thing straight, for all who mention Pirlo disappearing in Bernebeau during the first leg of the GS, Allegri was playing what is literally Milan's worst possible formation/line-up. It consisted of a 4-3-3 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Seedorf which was proven the worst possible midfield combination and formation.

If closely followed during that time, this midfield couldn't even dictate against Bologna.

And Pirlo was marked out better by Alonso and not Ozil.

2nd leg was different where Pirlo was dictating the and wasn't really troubled by Ozil's intelligent marking off the ball.

And why is everyone talking about Germany's midfield vs Pirlo as if Pirlo is the only man in midfield?

Has anyone heard of Claudio Marchisio? A technically skilled beast who was vital to Juve's season? Danielle freaking De Rossi? A world class midfielder who is just as good as Schweinstieger?

Anyone see the Germany-Italia friendly where Germany wasn't exactly dominating? (Almost the opposite).

Point being in the end fatigue will be the main point in which is the downfall for Italia. The camp has already complained of fatigue through the tournament and given Italia had to run and gun till the end of extra time against England, Germany will have a substantial advantage there.

Also for this game, Cesare NEEDS to change the formation as the 4-3-1-2 will not be dynamic enough to face Germany.

A 3-5-2 (or 3-4-1-2 MUST be deployed as notable changes would be DDR back to Sweeper role and Motta taking over in midfield while Cassano and Di Natale start.

I already answered it in page two but again. Where did Italy dominate Germany in that friendly? Stats say otherwise. We had more possession+ more goal scoring chances. The one with the most key passes on the pitch was Özil.

@kiranr wrote:Babun, if there is one thing Italy is good at, it is closing down space.

Yeah, they're expert at it. The problem is they need the numbers to defend and stay close to their box. How do you expect them to dominate the game if they're busy defending? They could only counter and that's their best bet imo.

If you say they'll set a very good counter formation and may win I agree but saying they'll dominate the proceedings= no chance.

Arquitecto wrote:

Immortal Babun wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:Lets get one thing straight, for all who mention Pirlo disappearing in Bernebeau during the first leg of the GS, Allegri was playing what is literally Milan's worst possible formation/line-up. It consisted of a 4-3-3 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Seedorf which was proven the worst possible midfield combination and formation.

If closely followed during that time, this midfield couldn't even dictate against Bologna.

And Pirlo was marked out better by Alonso and not Ozil.

2nd leg was different where Pirlo was dictating the and wasn't really troubled by Ozil's intelligent marking off the ball.

And why is everyone talking about Germany's midfield vs Pirlo as if Pirlo is the only man in midfield?

Has anyone heard of Claudio Marchisio? A technically skilled beast who was vital to Juve's season? Danielle freaking De Rossi? A world class midfielder who is just as good as Schweinstieger?

Anyone see the Germany-Italia friendly where Germany wasn't exactly dominating? (Almost the opposite).

Point being in the end fatigue will be the main point in which is the downfall for Italia. The camp has already complained of fatigue through the tournament and given Italia had to run and gun till the end of extra time against England, Germany will have a substantial advantage there.

Also for this game, Cesare NEEDS to change the formation as the 4-3-1-2 will not be dynamic enough to face Germany.

A 3-5-2 (or 3-4-1-2 MUST be deployed as notable changes would be DDR back to Sweeper role and Motta taking over in midfield while Cassano and Di Natale start.

I already answered it in page two but again. Where did Italy dominate Germany in that friendly? Stats say otherwise. We had more possession+ more goal scoring chances. The one with the most key passes on the pitch was Özil.

I agree, Italian midfield will not dominate possession over German midfield. Germany midfield is a class above Italian midfield which will be proved come 28th.Italia Out numbering in midfield is definitely a serious issue but you have to take into account that Germany's fullbacks will be unmarked as well which will help them dominate possession .

It is not a surprise that Italia has only scored one goal from open play in the whole tournament now. Their narrowness and trying over the top balls over and over again again again has made them predictable.I think Italia is strong defensively due to the numbers they put at the back but lacks offensive cutting edge due to the same reason ie not enough men in final third.

Ozil will be key this game. Pirlo is not defensively good enough to stop Ozil and if they let Pirlo alone deep i can see Ozil having a great game.

I think Germany should play Lahm at RB for this game. Him bombing throw right wing ,Rues dribbling and Ozil drifting to right wing will be too much for Italias left back who imo is average at best.

Italy cant play a deep line this time because Germany will have enough time on the ball and they have Gomez who can be used as a target.

@kiranr wrote:Babun, if there is one thing Italy is good at, it is closing down space.

Yeah, they're expert at it. The problem is they need the numbers to defend and stay close to their box. How do you expect them to dominate the game if they're busy defending? They could only counter and that's their best bet imo.

If you say they'll set a very good counter formation and may win I agree but saying they'll dominate the proceedings= no chance.

But who said they will dominate? I think all of us expect that if Pirlo is not marked and gets the ball, then Germany is in trouble through counters and set-pieces. Germany will attack Italy from all sides and with lots of crosses as well.

It will be a fascinating match. If Italy get their tactics rights and the way Germany usually sets up, then there will be lots of action on the pitch with each team getting opportunities for the goal ( I expect Germany to get more chances).

@kiranr wrote:Babun, if there is one thing Italy is good at, it is closing down space.

Yeah, they're expert at it. The problem is they need the numbers to defend and stay close to their box. How do you expect them to dominate the game if they're busy defending? They could only counter and that's their best bet imo.

If you say they'll set a very good counter formation and may win I agree but saying they'll dominate the proceedings= no chance.

Arquitecto wrote:

Immortal Babun wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:Lets get one thing straight, for all who mention Pirlo disappearing in Bernebeau during the first leg of the GS, Allegri was playing what is literally Milan's worst possible formation/line-up. It consisted of a 4-3-3 with Pirlo-Gattuso-Seedorf which was proven the worst possible midfield combination and formation.

If closely followed during that time, this midfield couldn't even dictate against Bologna.

And Pirlo was marked out better by Alonso and not Ozil.

2nd leg was different where Pirlo was dictating the and wasn't really troubled by Ozil's intelligent marking off the ball.

And why is everyone talking about Germany's midfield vs Pirlo as if Pirlo is the only man in midfield?

Has anyone heard of Claudio Marchisio? A technically skilled beast who was vital to Juve's season? Danielle freaking De Rossi? A world class midfielder who is just as good as Schweinstieger?

Anyone see the Germany-Italia friendly where Germany wasn't exactly dominating? (Almost the opposite).

Point being in the end fatigue will be the main point in which is the downfall for Italia. The camp has already complained of fatigue through the tournament and given Italia had to run and gun till the end of extra time against England, Germany will have a substantial advantage there.

Also for this game, Cesare NEEDS to change the formation as the 4-3-1-2 will not be dynamic enough to face Germany.

A 3-5-2 (or 3-4-1-2 MUST be deployed as notable changes would be DDR back to Sweeper role and Motta taking over in midfield while Cassano and Di Natale start.

I already answered it in page two but again. Where did Italy dominate Germany in that friendly? Stats say otherwise. We had more possession+ more goal scoring chances. The one with the most key passes on the pitch was Özil.

Arquitecto wrote:Both teams were playing near foreign line-ups as compared to now (although Germany's is closer) so a judgement of how the similarities will be to thursday will almost be unnecessary.

That was my point, actually. 1st, never take any friendlies of Germany too serious (AFAIK Italy are rarely putting everything into friendlies either), and of course, 2nd. Löw was experimenting then. I mean, he started out with Lahm - Badstuber - Mertesacker - Aogo in defense and then subbed Lahm and Stubsi out to make it Boateng - Hummels - Mertesacker - Aogo... That such shuffling of a defensive line is prone to leak goals should be obvious.

Last edited by rwo power on Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total

@kiranr wrote:It will be a fascinating match. If Italy get their tactics rights and the way Germany usually sets up, then there will be lots of action on the pitch with each team getting opportunities for the goal ( I expect Germany to get more chances).

@kiranr wrote:Babun, if there is one thing Italy is good at, it is closing down space.

Yeah, they're expert at it. The problem is they need the numbers to defend and stay close to their box. How do you expect them to dominate the game if they're busy defending? They could only counter and that's their best bet imo.

If you say they'll set a very good counter formation and may win I agree but saying they'll dominate the proceedings= no chance.

But who said they will dominate? I think all of us expect that if Pirlo is not marked and gets the ball, then Germany is in trouble through counters and set-pieces. Germany will attack Italy from all sides and with lots of crosses as well.

It will be a fascinating match. If Italy get their tactics rights and the way Germany usually sets up, then there will be lots of action on the pitch with each team getting opportunities for the goal ( I expect Germany to get more chances).

It seems to be the case according to people posting in this thread. I was specially answering Mole. He thinks Italy would dominate the proceedings with higher numbers in midfield

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The other thing that should be mentioned, is Cassano drops deep when Italy are defending which will give them an ever greater number advantage.

You are all talking about Italy from a defensive stand point in midfield but how about going forward? With Cassano picking up Schweignsteiger and De Rossi and Marchisio picking up Khedira and Ozil.

The thing you are talking about mus'nt happen from a Germany standpoint happens again..... Pirlo is free with a cigar in his mouth.

As mentioned before if Germany try to pass through Italy they will come unstuck in my eyes as also mentioned before Germany need to use the wingers and fullbacks as much as possible to drag out covering midfielders to expose Pirlo.

What Italy need to do is the exact scenario i mentioned above... if Cassano drops deep and picks up Schweignsteiger ( like i think he will as he usually does) then Germany have a massive problem because the end result will be Pirlo will have massive loads of space.

Although this tactical view is only really relevant for the first 70 mins because Cassano and Ozil wont last much longer than that..... then the Coaches become important.

That's if the scoreline is close at this point anyway, if Balotelli has his shooting boots on it would probably be over by half time :lucas :

Italy could throw all the numbers in midfield they still won't dominate possession. The reason is Germany uses free space wherever it's present. If Italy decide to pack the middle expect lots of Lahm overlapping and overloading of flanks. Italy will be forced to commit players for defending the flanks which will open up the middle. Their 3 men defence would have to stay deeper because Klose/ Gomez and Müller will make runs in behind 100%- The gap between Pirlo, their defence and attackers will get very big. Cassano dropping back isn't a problem because Hummels and Badstuber are excellent game openers.They won't be able to dominate anything. It's like saying Manu would dominate Farca with 4-5-1 formation vs. 4-3-3 just because they have higher numbers in midfield It's still 10 vs. 10. Germany's 10 uses the space a lot better than narrow Italian one. Marchisio, De Rossi etc. will be very busy with Özil and Khedira. They make fast runs to take markers away. Have fun tracking them with Marchisio and De Rossi alone

Also, Marchisio is overrated.

Of course, Italy does not have a chance against the great invincible Germans. All Italians are overrated, the Germans are underrated. And, all your LOLing at the Italians makes it even more clear to us that you have the knowledge and the expertise to explain how it will be impossible for Germany to lose.

Hey, what's your problem man? Why are you playing cheerleader for other nations? Btw cheerleading is a teenage girl job. Why don't you just vent your anger at Bert? By supporting Italy you're setting yourself up for double the pain when we ko them too.