Ching-yuan Wei-hsin, a Chinese Ch'an master, once said this:
Thirty years ago, when having not studied Ch'an, this monk saw mountain was mountains and water was water.
Later, when following the good teacher's guide, this monk...
continue...

I have previously read your description as an explanation elsewhere, but personally I feel that it may fall short of an adequate description.

One sort of anxiously thinks that enlightenment will jump on them by teasing there mind with a koan.

I do not see them as a means to 'sudden awakening'.

I do see them as 'first steps to insight'.

Extinguishing logic and being left with the voice of the mind does not jump out as an insight to 'the logical mind'!!!???

But I do see them as forst steps generally.

Yet, some may see a whole lot from one dose.

Regardless. They are fantastic.

Seeing my unconscioiusness dissapearing into unconsciousness.

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Reply from -----0

Sep.24.2008
03:37PM EDT

Oh, the riddle has many answers, but none of them is of any importance.

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Reply from Bluerose

Sep.25.2008
07:00AM EDT

I think they are designed to encourage one to stop thinking and just wonder.

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Reply from immortal 1

Sep.25.2008
08:24AM EDT

This all sounds good to me. I don't think Koans can impart enlightenment either. Or that anything can for that matter.

Enlightenment, for lack of a better or more recognizable term, since it certainly is not that, yet is, comes to one's self from one's self from within. Nothing gives it from without. No outside source triggers it, or brings it on.

Somehow when your inner-self decides that your outer-self is ready, it will happen. There may be many ways to prepare, including koans, but there is no direct cause.

Dogen Zenji refused to allow people to call him a Master. He knew better. He had mastered nothing, and could serve as Master to no one.

The path is of self-discovery. Of the self, by the self, for the self.

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Reply from -----0

Sep.25.2008
10:22AM EDT

Quote: ". . . Enlightenment, for lack of a better or more recognizable term, since it certainly is not that, yet is, comes to one&apos;s self from one&apos;s self from within. Nothing gives it from without. No outside source triggers it, or brings it on. . .".........

It seems to be so misunderstood, especially by people who think they understand it.

Maybe I'm one of those. I'll leave that question open.

Nothingness is something that isn't anything.

To experience nothingness there must be something to do the experiencing, and what that something experiences is nothing. So it isn't anything, or anywhere, yet it is something that is being nothing.

Thus the term 'nothingness', for something experiencing nothing.

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Reply from Bluerose

Sep.27.2008
01:27PM EDT

Nothing. I look at it and it is like a void, a massive void. It seems like empty space but it isn’t. What it is, is everything. It’s like having something explained to you that you just don’t get. No matter how many word they use to try and explain it, it doesn’t make any sense. Therefore the words are empty. Nothing which is everything is there but unless you know what you are looking for, you can’t see it.

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Reply from IZIZIZ

Oct.01.2008
06:58AM EDT

Nothingness.

NO-THING-NESS.

How many things is REALITY.?

Non reality does not exist.

Therefore Reality stands alone on its own.

Its contrast is itself, hence the infinite realm of 'IS', everywhere you look, like you and me.

It is its own contrast, hence PARADOX.

There are no things here nor there that stand on their own without reality.