Pro-choice, (suicide)?

Ok, I'm back; they've taken off my under moderation status. (Thanks, love you guys. It has done me a lot of good. It worked; I'm less crazy, now. I think...)

I see a lot of people are complaining about the nature of this site. They want it 'less strict', and more open to the idea of pro-death. There are plenty of such sites, on the internet, i'm sure. And even if this site went that way, someone else would make another prolife forum. Cuz there's still good people out there. And i course would sign out and never come back, if this site started tolerating such non-sense.

I see an accumulation of such posts, so I decided to retort, and share my view on the subject.

Of all the things I hate, this is probably, on the top of the list. PRO-CHOICE (SUICIDE).

First, of all, suicides are always the result of social darwinism. Social darwinism is not a natural concept. You cannot bring 'survival of the fittest' and how it works in the wild, into a CIVILIZED context. Cuz as you pull that theory from NATURE into CIVILIZATION, you realize it falls apart. And that's because our brains evolve and change. We develop a sense of compassion. It is our first instinct, to survive. So capitalists, want to condition us, to accept that theory, and become animals in civilization. It's a natural concept in a natural context. Not a natural concept in an unnatural context. And by the way, it works much differently, amongst animals, and I won't go into it. Capitalists are usually also creationists, so I dunno, how they establish that primal connection. They're such phony and bullying hypocrits.

If I'm a big critic of civilization, I'm a much bigger critic of capitalism. Capitalism being the greatest evil in the world.

I hate this idea, of going on with our lives, while others fall and die. That's not our natural instinct. We should help people. We must accomodate people. Not everyone is equipped to deal with this unnatural life. But of course capitalists are arrogant, and they'll deny that mental diseases, even exist. So they can justify their greed. Moving on.

I am of a self-sacrifious and of an selfless nature. I value that more than anything.

I'm repeating much of what I said on another thread. Yeah, I have a huge ego, up to the roof, I usually cannot contain myself. I'm crazy, etc. Manic, maybe.

This world has gone to sh!t. Bodybuilding, dietiary concerns, plastic surgery. People are superficial and materialistic. Individualism is on the rise. Pornography, and abortions.

Maybe I'm unfairly attributing all these problems to capitalism.

Telling someone suicide is a valid option, is the worse thing you could tell anyone.

We must get together and really, concretely, help people.

Pressures of capitalism. You have to be educated, healthy, and in shape.

I don't belive in laziness, but I believe in debilitation. I believe in hard work. Self-improvement, and 'toute le kit'. But it's the capitalists, who are lazy, they're usually born 'lucky', and they lead easy and 'beautiful' lives. Blabla... No need to add anything more here, y'all get my drift.

As to what you said about abortion, I agree it is wrong, but it is not primarily a Capitalist thing at all. In fact, I think that countries leaning toward or practicing Socialism and Communism are the worst where abortion is concerned. Look at China. People are only allowed one child per person legally. If you become pregnant with a second, you better get an abortion. If not, you better leave your baby on a hill somewhere to die or make sure no-one sees you when you ditch it outside of an orphanage somewhere or you will be arrested. Since everyone in China values males life more than females, guess who is left to die or in an orphanage? You guessed it, baby girls. In fact, the more Capitalist-leaning people in America (the Christians you despise so much) are the ones who actually recognize the sanctity of human life most of all.

Christian Capitalists, whom I view as the devil incarnate, are not always prolife.

They're for death when it comes to WARS, Death Penalty, and healthcare. But I probably know what you're going to say.

And, because I'm not a Christian, I don't view abortion as such a big thing as deluded people, do. The latter amplify it. And I don't know that they're genuily prolife.

Abortion doesn't exist in nature. So, it's unnatural. It's also irrational, and probably evil. But I don't believe in tackling abortion, directly. I believe in fighting the disease, and hence getting rid of all the symptoms, at once. Fighting symptoms is an upstream battle. But you obviously wanna have your cake and eat it, too. The disease will always overwhelm you, and the symptoms will keep resurfacing, until the disease is not addressed. People don't even acknowledge there's a disease. They're having a good time swimming in the flood. I believe in closing the leak. And you believe in taking out the water with buckets. And that's why I'm radical. If the disease is present, then the conditions are so, that the symptoms will surface at some point. Condoms here are IRONICALLY, the reason abortion is even a problem.

There's a fine line not to cross. And that's ''sex is only for procreation''. You're a catholic, right. You're not a rationalizing hypocrit, then? You reject LUST? It's a deadly sin. Carnal pleasure. Right? When you cross this line, you cannot control the stuff it engenders. So what a surprise we have porn, and all this other crap that rots the mind. And I blame it directly for abortion.

So we live in a sick atmosphere, and what a surprise abortion exists. WOW.

You go distribute condoms, and be part of the problem.

If you're not radical and perfect. You have a ton of side-effect problems.

And if I hate capitalists, I hate just as much social progressives. When you mix these two, you have devil-possessed libertarians.

Well, as a Catholic, I particularly admire Pope John Paul 2. He was pro-life across the board...death penalty bad, war bad (almost always), abortion bad, etc. I also think (obviously) that pornography is bad and truly screws up people's idea of normal sexual activity. Lust on the other hand, is not always a bad thing. For example, it draws people together and causes people to want to bond and create families, and the intimacy of sex (even if procreation is not the goal) results in a stronger bond between a husband and a wife and therefore strengthens the family. Catholics, for example, believe that the sexual act should be open to procreation, but that doesn't need to be the end goal. Actually, biologically speaking, lust (heightened sexual arousal) actually increases the chances of creating offspring in women. Biblically speaking, we are actually encouraged to enjoy the sexual act with our marital partners (Song of Songs, Old Testament). I'm not a big fan of just handing condoms out like candy either, but I believe that they should be available for purchase. If you are mature enough to want to have sex, you should be mature enough to walk into a store and buy them. It's not ideal, but few things are.

This probably has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. But Anastasia. You seem like a very intellingent person. Well, I don't understand some of your thinking. But that's probably cuz your heart isn't as good as your brain.

But, once you zoom out, and cover and consider everything. And weigh' things objectively. How can you come to the conclusion that Christianity is real? And not fantasy. I wanna know. You're far from stupid. I am not sure what it is, I guess I could figure it out, if I thought long enough about it.

I think I can bring any Christian to this place, in their mind, where they'll be obligated to question Christianity. And hopeful dismiss it. ''Therapy for Christians.'' Or Cure for Christianity.

I am not an atheist or anything. And I'm not even trying to be mean, here. Leaving Christianity has done me a lot of good. I wanna help others overcome this delusion.

I was a big Christian, before. But then I started seeing Jesus as on a level below me. And there's no compromise, for me. I wanna be as selfless and perfect as I can be. So right there I got out of it. I mean it was easy for me, cuz we had a 'differend' that I couldn't accept. And it's not because I'm gay or pro-abortion, cuz as you see my morals are strict as can be.

And when I was out, and when you're out of the delusion, it's much easier to see it for what it is. I guess, sometimes you have to be deluded first to understand it's a delusion. Cuz the common layman, doesn't question these things.

The problem sometimes with Christians, is that it's impossible to talk to them, cuz they can't think straight, because of their delusion. And they don't wanna drop it.

There's too much I could say, and that I've said already. A lot of Christians are sociopaths, I guess. Others are using Jesus as a busboy.

You must know that Christianity is fake, right? Or do you wanna remain in the delusion? And say something ridiculous, or nothing at all.

It can be terryfing as hell to even question God when you're deluded. It's almost OCD-like. It's a mental disorder, basically.

And if I value unselfishless, I value just as much LOGIC. And that's why I dismiss this idea of a God.

But I guess you've heard all this before, and choose to remain deluded? And I'm rambling, for nothing?

I guess, that's it.

One reason that contributed to my departure from this religion, is also the fact that it was hijacked by capitalists and perverts. I guess that's a stupid reason in itself.

Based on your last post, you obviously didn't get the essence of my post. Or you dismissed it, as crazy.

But, there's obviously a friction, here. Cuz based on what I said, and what you said afterwards, I view you as part of the problem.

Lust is a beautiful thing? Isn't it a deadly sin.

Go ahead, and rationalize a bit more.

If you accept that it's ok. Just don't be surprise your bf cheats on you. It's unavoidable. I see it all the time. And I think to myself, Jesus, what has happened to people. It's like I didn't get used to the stupidity, and each time, I find myself, laughing, you know.

You must set the boundaries where I put them, or else you're to blame for abortions, too.

I didn't say lust was a beautiful thing. I said that is can be a great component in any monogamous relationship, and it can also be what attracts us to each other, which leads to the procreation of which you are so fond. If people are not attracted to each other, good luck getting them to ever have sex in the first place. Sex doesn't have to be a chore. You say my husband will most likely cheat on me? Never. We share the same ideals and beliefs and are madly in love with each other (and have been for almost 14 years). What is likely to make a man cheat on a woman is a woman who treats sex as a chore or will only do it for procreation. What the hell is wrong with a little fun between a committed couple. Everything doesn't always have to be so serious. Nothing wrong with enjoying yourself with the person you love and are committed to. This sex only for procreation thing is so foreign to me, and you're all about what is "natural" then sex is pretty much #1 on the list.

As to why I believe in Christianity, I need to get back to you on that. I have the thoughts formed in my head, but need time to articulate them. It took years to understand it myself, might take a while to explain it.

Suicide and capitalism are not directly linked. They can be linked, but they certainly aren't by default. I am a communist in heart, although not in practice, since it is an impossible ideal. Some capitalism is required. I'm certain you (suicide_ideation) utilise capitalism, as well. I bet you've bought the computer you're using to post, for instance. Anyway, despite me being a communist in heart, in regards to suicide, I am pro-choice. No, not pro-death; only pro-choice. How can you not be pro-choice? Some people are incurably unhappy or have been exposed to very bad happenings. How can one refuse them the right to end their life through suicide? Refusing them that is cruel and heartless. Also, some do not want to be "cured" from their suicidal thoughts, since they may consider themselves to be aware of the truth, and since the truth is extremely important to some, they do not want the truth to be "cured" away.

As for abortion... the fetus was created in a purely parasitic fashion and, as such, one has no obligations toward it. If one wishes to remove this parasite, one has every right to do so.

In regards to pornography... I, too, consider normal pornography immoral, but what do you think about drawn pornography? I am highly interested in ecchi; it can be fantastically beautiful, and it holds no immorality, since no one is hurt, during its creation. It is just fantasies put down as drawings, able to display the true beauties of life.

Communism works better than capitalism, in practice. It just depends what you value most. You're just trying to impose your beliefs on me.

Next, I am not pro-choice, because I wanna do all I can to help the suffering person. I don't wanna let the person go. And I'm sure if we all thought like this, we'd keep a lot of people from wanting to die. We live in such a bad atmosphere, where people are left to die, and no one cares.

I am not against abortion, because I care about the life that you kill. I find it unnatural; it doesnt exist in nature. A male impregnantes a female, and then we interfere with nature's course, and kill something that is alive and growing. IRRATIONAL. And hence evil. I am against Lust, because as I said I base my beliefs on UNSELFISHNESS. Lust is for your selfish and hedonistic needs. And there's lots of lust involved in abortion.

As for pornographers, I support the death penalty, and some torture prior to the execution.

Amen, praise Jesus.

I am anticipating Anastasia's answer to why she's a christian. She's either gonna talk from a deluded frame of mind, and tell me some non-sense like Jesus somehow helped her. Or tell me, something that has nothing to do with my point and tell me we're all free to believe in what we want.

Wow, I see this whole 'lust bashing' ideology has continued uninhibited. Can't say I expected anything more. You know, anything logical. Of course, anything in excess is harmful to the human mind and threatens to take over, but that doesn't justify bashing the original concept.

Seriously. If there was no lust, we would have died out as a species a long time ago. Shit, if there were no lust, men wouldn't even be able to perform. He wouldn't even be able to climax for crying out loud. Fat load of good that would do for society.

Well, SI, I'm sure none of this will make sense to you, but it makes sense to me.

1.) I would be deluding myself if I said that part of the reason I am a Catholic is not because I was born and raised that way. Tradition definitely plays a part. If I were raised as a Buddhist, the chances would be greater that I would still be a Buddhist.

2.) It makes perfect sense to me. Prophecies were postulated in the Old Testament and came true through the new testament. In psalm 22 for example (which has always been understood to be a book of both prophecy and praise by the Hebrews), describe the Passion in detail, right down to the crucifixion and the fact that they casted lots for Jesus' clothing. This was also the Psalm Jesus quoted when he said, "My, God, why have you forsaken me?" He was referencing the fulfillment of prophecy. Many, many other prophecies were also fulfilled through the New Testament which I won't bore you with here.

3.) Almost everyone agrees that the man Jesus of Nazareth existed (even most historians). Whether He was the Son of God or not is up for debate. Based upon His words and accounts of His life (sited by multiple contemporary sources), I do not believe he was lying about being the Son of God for personal gain, as He had many opportunities to recant and did not and was ultimately humiliated and killed. I don't believe he was insane, as His actions and words do not indicate that. So He obviously believed He was the Son of God and so did the Apostles, who wrote down the story of His life and most of whom were killed for their beliefs. This is not a case of a bunch of people trying to make something up to acheive power or wealth. They honestly believed what they were saying and they saw it first hand. They believed it enough to die for it.

4.) There is perfect continuity between the never-ending blood sacrifices in the Old Testament and Jesus as the final ultimate sacrifice. This is a long drawn out discussion regarding the history of the Hebrews that I won't get into here but have posted elsewhere on this forum.

5.) Miracles. This will make no sense to you and you will probably attribute this to my "delusion", but here goes. I am not talking about the miracles in the Bible as it is easy to just say that the Bible is irrelevant and that a book written 2000 years ago and translated so many times by anonymous people is subject to much criticism. I am talking about things like the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, predicted by the children of Fatima through the Virgin Mary and witnessed by 100,000 people in the early 20th century. Scientists still cannot explain it and it was witnessed by Christians and atheists alike. Rosaries turning to solid gold (verified by jewelers) after a pilgrimage to the former Yugoslavia. I have seen these rosaries with my own eyes and spoken to devout Catholics to whom this has happened and whom I have no reason to question. If they cease praying on these rosaries for any period of time, they turn black and then back to gold when prayer is resumed. These people were actually skeptical before this happened to them. I have also seen photographic evidence of the Virgin Mary that was not doctored or faked.

The miracle of Zeiton, Egypt in the 1970's where the Virgin Mary appeared atop a church for several weeks. This was captured on film and on television and the pictures are available online. The government sent massive search teams around and in the church (something like a 15-mile radius) to find if this image could have been projected in any way to no avail.

6.) Things too numerous to count, such as Jesus referring to Peter saying cryptic things like "Upon this rock I will build my church", and in 1944 the body of St. Peter was found under St. Peter's Basilica in Rome during a routine excavation. If you drop a plumb line from the center of the dome of the basilica straight down and under-ground, it centers precisely on the body of St. Peter within a fraction of an inch.

7.) Faith...which to you I am sure is part of the "delusion", but faith is a part of any religion, friendship, marriage etc.

That's just off the top of my head and certainly does not comprise the entirety of my beliefs and/or my reasons for believing.

8.) People far more intelligent than myself and whom I admire a great deal believed in Christianity/Catholicism. Pope John Paul 2 spoke 7 languages fluently and many others conversationally. He was a dramatist and a poet and also an avid student of the sciences, believing firmly that science and religion are inseperable and can purge each other of their respective errors. He was a ditch-digger during WWII and hid people from the Nazis in his basement. He was also in love once before he became a priest. And yet, his life was practically beyond reproach. I have never heard anyone who can accuse him of any wrongdoing, cruelty or meanness. He was a truly humble and devout man. I am inspired by his goodness and love of humanity. His faith made him this way, and whether he was wrong or not (I of course believe he was right) his faith made him a truly extraordinary man, which cannot be a bad thing.

So, you abhore lust which seems to make you think you have the moral high-ground, yet...you hate an entire nation. I'd honestly like to see you justify that. You're no better than anyone else. You say lust is evil, I would think (and any sane person would agree) that hatred is far more evil.

So, you abhore lust which seems to make you think you have the moral high-ground, yet...you hate an entire nation. I'd honestly like to see you justify that. You're no better than anyone else. You say lust is evil, I would think (and any sane person would agree) that hatred is far more evil.