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I'm with you Invisibilis. Most people would rather talk about how "right" they are with respect to god (pure fantasy), than they would talk about how they are fucking up the only world we currently have. I think that "god" is the root of a lot of evils in this world, and this is one of the biggest. As long as religious nuts are sure that there is an after-life, they will not give a shit about this planet. The end really will come, one way or the other, as a self-fulfilling prophecy, even if there is no god. Too bad we won't be around to realize our mistake. But maybe that is a good thing.

Invisibilis, are you a fan of ‘The Day After Tomorrow’ by any chance? This theory relies upon a law of chaos theory; a critical change can rapidly destabilize an entire system. I’m a fan of chaos, but I’d like to think positively when it comes to this topic. Many scientists believe this "global superstorm" that you speak of is extremely implausible, if not impossible.

As long as religious nuts are sure that there is an after-life, they will not give a shit about this planet.

An interesting thought. I won’t comment too much for fear of getting into a religious debate, but I will say that religion has kept most peoples eyes shut when it comes to the life expectancy of the planet as we know it.

Originally Posted by Cottontop3000

The end really will come, one way or the other, as a self-fulfilling prophecy, even if there is no god. Too bad we won't be around to realize our mistake. But maybe that is a good thing.

No truer word spoken Cottontop3000

What was God doing before He created the Universe?
Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.

I completely agree with you. However I think global warming/ice age has been slightly over exaggerated, a foreboding risk nonetheless. At the rate we are going, by the time we have taken action it’s going to be far too late. There are other risks that are not to be forgotten; cosmic impact, super volcano etc.

And these scientists that you speak of, do you know them personally are they as inept as you make them sound?

They are as inept as I make them sound; it’s just that there are enough of them to make them so.
My mind is open. By the sound of it, yours isn’t.

What was God doing before He created the Universe?
Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.

…I wasn't aware that the armageddon was "classified?" under mammoth asteroid.

Armageddon refers, generally, to end times or Earth ending catastrophes in various religions and cultures*. That includes a mammoth asteroid.

Originally Posted by Invisibilis

…how is not really important when it has come down to a matter of when.

How is a very important question, just as important as when. If we don’t know how, how are we going to find out when? Do you think global warming is primarily man-made? When do you think a global storm will take place?

Originally Posted by Invisibilis

Do you mean to say that enough liars make the truth? :-D

Liars? People who have a different view from you are liars? :-D The truth will not be known until the event takes place.

We don’t know for sure. It’s pretty naive of you to think that we know exactly what nature is going to throw at us when the time comes. In order to find out when, the processes and steps that are going to be taken need to be found (how). Considering you haven’t even an answer to my question:

When do you think a global storm will take place?

I take it you don’t know all the processes and steps that will be taken by nature to eradicate mankind.

Originally Posted by Invisibilis

I however am going to try and stop it and I am beginning to find out that there are people out there who want the same thing. For those who don't, well you had better just stay out of our way.

You go you eco-warrior you!

Originally Posted by Invisibilis

p.s. When scientists on a government pay roll actively decieve the public
with fanatasies rather than fact just to please the status quo, yes
friend I call them liars.

Fair play.

What was God doing before He created the Universe?
Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.

Its pretty of you naive to think if you say it won't happen then it won't.

I have never said that global warming won’t take place. I’m just trying to say that the; “The end is nigh, were all going to die!” view isn’t the best way of looking at the situation in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Invisibilis

Its pretty blatently ignorant of you to be setting up a pissing contest with me when you are obviously regurgitating someone elses lies

I’m very willing to say: YOU KNOW MORE THAN ME ON THIS TOPIC; I’m here to learn. These views are my own, made up of the information I have gained from both sides of the ‘Global Warming Battlefield’. So please teach me. I keep mentioning storms purely because that’s what I see happening if all that fresh water get dumped into the oceans. That’s obviously wrong, so could you please enlighten me?

Originally Posted by Invisibilis

Its pretty ridiculous of you to believe that mother nature is out to get you.

…Isn’t that what you’ve been trying to get across to me? Global warming is a reality, and we going to have to deal with the consequences of our actions?

Originally Posted by Invisibilis

Not that Bruce Willis wasn't nice to look at, but a mammoth asteroid is a future crater not the act of god.

I never saw the film – it looked nonsense. Nothing is an act of God.

What was God doing before He created the Universe?
Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.

Heh, I thought that be the case; you didn’t seem to be a bad guy from your other post.

Originally Posted by Invisilbilis

…yet 100 years ago we could've stopped and reversed our destruction…

Retrospect is a wonderful thing. Science 100 years ago was no where near to seeing what we were doing to the planet. If only … the world would be so different. As I’ve already said:

Originally Posted by 8873tom

At the rate we are going, by the time we have taken action it’s going to be far too late.

As your proved in your, umm, preaching . We can’t give up on them, what sort of chance would we have if we did? All we really need to do is get governments to implement paradigm shifts, no cars – for starters. A huge mass sit-down protest should so the trick, no way are you going to get enough people to care in time.

Originally Posted by Invisilbilis

…(and by near I do not mean the day after tomorrow haha, even though no one can say it won't be, but I mean in the next 200 years)…

I say between 45 - 300 years. As I’ve already said I keep an open mind; those figures are both the extremes, in my mind. What I was trying to get at with the how and when was we need to keep on looking at how to narrow the gap to find out when. The process will be gradual – nothing like ‘The Day After Tomorrow’. Hollywood bullshit.

Originally Posted by Invisilbilis

…and if it turns out that we could've lived another 5000 years

I think we’ll have killed ourselves by then, the way we’re going. Who knows.

Originally Posted by Invisilbilis

I'm still to disgusted at myself for being born a human.

A tad harsh I feel.

What was God doing before He created the Universe?
Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.

We could probably tolerate two per couple for the following reasons.
1) Not every couple will want any children.
2) Some couples will only want one.
3) Childhood mortality will further reduce numbers
4) Take parallel action to delay the age of conception to the thirties

The problem is how to implement. I have two children. That was a deliberate choice. My motivation was that that was the only responsible way to behave. (I couldn't let my wonderful DNA disappear completely :-D ) Can we expect others to be so socially responsible. (I'm not claiming sainthood. On the negative side I often fart loudly on buses)
In Europe there is a depopulation crisis. Now all we have to determine is it
a) the result of wealth
b) the result of watching reality TV shows

Scientists thought magnetic fields generated from power lines was giving people leukemia, mobile phones were killing brain cells, marijuanas safe, that Mars was covered with canals, and that the population increase in London would lead to an uncontrollable amount of horse shit because everyone would be riding around on horses, all stupid mistakes made because of a lack of evidence and/or presumptions.

But fine, be ashamed of being a human, act like a retard on forums, try to stop farting, and pretend that walking to the store instead of going by car is saving the world.. More oil for me

Scientists thought magnetic fields generated from power lines was giving people leukemia, mobile phones were killing brain cells, marijuanas safe, that Mars was covered with canals, and that the population increase in London would lead to an uncontrollable amount of horse shit because everyone would be riding around on horses, all stupid mistakes made because of a lack of evidence and/or presumptions.

Care to explain the relevance of this to the thread?

Originally Posted by kestasjk

But fine, be ashamed of being a human, act like a retard on forums, try to stop farting, and pretend that walking to the store instead of going by car is saving the world.

1. I am not ashamed of being a human.
2. What in my posts make you think I am?
3. In what way do you think I am acting like a retard? (And if you have something of substance, what makes you think it is an act?)
4. 'Walking to the store...etc" as one of a thousand things each individual can do could indeed save the world if enough individuals do it.

Originally Posted by kestasjk

I think I'll dump my fridge in the river tomorrow, just out of spite

Be sure to tie your leg to it before you throw it in.

btw it's bad netiquette to edit the contents of your posts after several other people have replied.

The relevance is that there's not enough evidence to say that global warming is happening or not, and if it is what affect it will have, and whether we're to blame. To assume the worst case scenario, that we're destroying the planet, would be making a similar mistake to the ones I listed.

1. I am not ashamed of being a human.
2. What in my posts make you think I am?
3. In what way do you think I am acting like a retard? (And if you have something of substance, what makes you think it is an act?)

I was replying to the person starting the thread (this is why I didn't quote you and so many of my comments don't refer to your post).

4. 'Walking to the store...etc" as one of a thousand things each individual can do could indeed save the world if enough individuals do it.

If it makes you feel better, but when using a computer and sitting on a chair probably made largely out of plastic, using electricity generated probably by burning coal, wearing clothes and eating food from methane producing livestock (delivered by truck to the local store), etc etc, I don't see how you can seriously think walking to the store or turning off the lights when you leave a room is going to 'save the world'

My apologies for interpreting some of your responses as being directed towards me when they were not. You could have been clearer.
The evidence for global warming is incontravertible. I would accept that there is a lingering doubt as to the whether this is wholly or only partly due to human activity. The consequences for humanity are so severe that corrective measures need to be taken now, even if they turn out in future to have been unecessary. If I am driving in a rain storm and think I see a turn in the road ahead I am going to slow down until I determine if it is there or not.
I clearly noted in my reply that 'walking to the store' was only a single example of the type of action that can reduce our consumption of energy and materials. I can assure you there are no plastic chairs in my house. I have reduced my consumption of beef by 95%. And I am frugal with my use of electricity. It may not save the world, but behaving in the flippant, ignorant (sensuo stricto), laissez faire way you seem to espouse will certainly destroy it.

If there is solid evidence then fine, but I've looked for it and haven't found it.
And if there is global warming, how do we know we're playing a large part in it? Doesn't the climate naturally swing from hot to cold (we did just come from an ice age after all)? How do we know what we're seeing isn't that? What about the weather balloon and satellite data, which hasn't detected any change? I like plastic, oil, wool and beef and I'll need to see something convincing before I give them up.

Looking back, and forward, there is no way the human race is going to be able to prevent a natural, cataclysmic, ending life as we know it disaster (saying this I do think we be able to stop asteroids from hitting the planet sooner rather than later).

All I’m going to say is that you both are missing out the fact that a super volcano or an unseen colossal piece of comic debris could, and would, wipe us out before global warming (if it ever happens).

This however, paradoxically makes both of you correct in my mind. a) you can fu*k the planet and encourage people to live in a care free, this is as good as life gets, mentality due to the fact if global warming doesn’t end us something else will (Kezy Kezy), or b) keep up hope, research, technological advances and space exploration and keep on learning while will still can. Go for the latter people – what have we got to lose? :?

What was God doing before He created the Universe?
Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.

I'm all for research, but ignorance doesn't only mean ignorantly optemistic, you can also be ignorantly pessimistic. As tom just said there are any number of things you can be afraid of and change your life style to try to avoid, but unless you can be pretty sure that it's going to happen unless you do so then that's ignorantly pessimistic.. It's just as ignorant but more cool.
As far as I'm concerned I think there are lots of holes in the theory that humans are causing global warming, and that this global warming will cause avoidable climate change, so there's no way I'm giving up the things I like to counter act it.

EDIT: By the way I'm not of the opinion that if global warming doesn't get us something else will tom, I'm of the opinion that nothing will get us. I think humanity has a long rich future ahead of it, I can see no good reason to think otherwise.

By the way I'm not of the opinion that if global warming doesn't get us something else will tom, I'm of the opinion that nothing will get us. I think humanity has a long rich future ahead of it, I can see no good reason to think otherwise.

You agree though, that sooner or later, some great force out of our control will take us (or most of us) out right? If you do, could it not be tomorrow or the day after that? I personally think, with all the other human factors included, this is pretty much the ‘golden age’. I’m not saying we will get wiped out soon, just that the way things are looking, life doesn’t really get much better before it starts to go down hill.

What was God doing before He created the Universe?
Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.

By the way I'm not of the opinion that if global warming doesn't get us something else will tom, I'm of the opinion that nothing will get us. I think humanity has a long rich future ahead of it, I can see no good reason to think otherwise.

You agree though, that sooner or later, some great force out of our control will take us (or most of us) out right? If you do, could it not be tomorrow or the day after that?

Remember humanity has only been around about 1% of the length of time dinosaurs were around (And they were cold blooded and relatively stupid, much more prone to extinction than us.), and even less of the amount of the time that the trilobyte period (I forget what it was called) was around, so statistically we have a long way to go.

But of course I agree.. a supervolcano, comet, violent increase/decrease in solar activity, violent ice age, they could all bring our extinction any day now. As I said though statistically it's not likely they will for a long time, and anything which isn't very dramatic and fails to wipe us out completely won't have much effect in the long term, and wiping us out completely would be harder than you might think.

Originally Posted by 8873tom

I personally think, with all the other human factors included, this is pretty much the ‘golden age’. I’m not saying we will get wiped out soon, just that the way things are looking, life doesn’t really get much better before it starts to go down hill.

They probably said that in the Victorian era too, who knows how much better it could get? I'm looking forward to IPv6, very high internet speeds, better software, much more powerful processors, computer screens which project themselves over what you're seeing, nanotechnology, genetic engineering, perhaps space colonisation and preventive measures againt potential causes of human extinction.. Who knows what amazing advances lay around the corner? If you went back 50 years in time and showed someone a laptop they would probably go into an awe induced seizure. (At least, I would have.)
<edit>Oh yeah and the end of world hunger and poverty, I'm looking forward to those too..</edit>