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Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

How long was Jesus in Jerusalem?

He performs his first miracle and heads for Jerusalem for Passover Jn 2 .
Cleanses Temple, chat with Nicodemas, goes to the Jordan.
Jn 4:3 has him leaving for Gallillee.
He passes through Samaria 2 days,

3 He left Judea and went away again into Galilee.
4 And He had to pass through Samaria.

43 After the two days He went forth from there into Galilee.

Note verse 35,

35 "Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest'?

Qu,--how long from Passover to harvest?
Deduct 4 months from the answer and that how long Jesus was in Judea before he started his Galillean ministry.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by WSGAC

But your facts are all taken from John's gospel.

I can find facts from the synoptic gospels if you wish. However, your argument that John should not be used for identifying dates is not valid. You are essentially claiming that, since its emphasis is theological, it’s chronological information must be doubted. Why? When you are speaking on a topic, do you ever throw out a bit of info on an unrelated topic? I do. So, why can’t a book like John include historical data?

Do you apply the same logic to the book of Galatians (a theological book) where Paul, as an aside to his primary theme, offers chronological information? (Galatians 2:1) Of course not. So, why do you question the chronological value of John?

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Cyberseeker

I can find facts from the synoptic gospels if you wish. However, your argument that John should not be used for identifying dates is not valid. You are essentially claiming that, since its emphasis is theological, it’s chronological information must be doubted. Why? When you are speaking on a topic, do you ever throw out a bit of info on an unrelated topic? I do. So, why can’t a book like John include historical data?

Chris, One reason I'm doubting John chronological / historical data is that it disagrees with three earlier synoptic gospels. There's no other way to have John agree with the synoptics, other than claiming that there were two cleansing of the temple while John himself never claimed that there where two cleansings.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Cyberseeker

Perhaps, but it does not mean historical dates cannot be identified from his narrative. For example:

St John identifies the first year of Christs ministry as AD27. How? By adding 46 years from the date Herod began reconstructing the temple. (BC20) Innocuous comments like this are very helpful to anyone tying to work out a chronology, even if the overall theme is theological.

Actually, St.John provides the answer to the opening post without even having to refer to the synoptic gospels. Did Jesus Ministry last 1 or 3 1/2 Years? Well, just deduct AD27 from the date of his death! (AD30) What do we have?

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

The fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, would be around AD29/30 when the Word of God came to John

Jesus would have been about 30 years old:

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

This parable would strongly indicate that Jesus ministry was at least 3 years:

Luke 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luke 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luke 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luke 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Caleb

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

The fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, would be around AD29/30 when the Word of God came to John

The fifteenth year from his co-regency (fully Caesar) with his father Augustus. That was AD12 so the reference in Luke has John the Baptist starting in 26AD and Jesus dying in AD30.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Cyberseeker

If there was only one cleansing of the temple, then what year was it? Please read John 2:13-21 and tell us.

Well I don't have the answers. All I could come up with is that John 2 is misaligned. I would rather place John 2:13-25 in and around chapter 12 after his triumphal entry being that the passover was six days away since John said it was "at hand". This would much better fit into chronological / historical data.

At the earliest the temple would have been finished by 27AD, but that in itself may not have been the 'year' in which that was spoken to Jesus. All that it claims is that it required 46 years in building and not that it had being 46 years.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Caleb

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

The fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, would be around AD29/30 when the Word of God came to John

Jesus would have been about 30 years old:

I counted it to be 29AD the beginning ministry of John the Baptist.

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

This parable would strongly indicate that Jesus ministry was at least 3 years:

Luke 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luke 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luke 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luke 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Beckrl

At the earliest the temple would have been finished by 27AD, but that in itself may not have been the 'year' in which that was spoken to Jesus. All that it claims is that it required 46 years in building and not that it had being 46 years.

I would rather place John 2:13-25 in and around chapter 12 after his triumphal entry being that the passover was six days away since John said it was "at hand". This would much better fit into chronological / historical data.

So what you are inferring is that the various Passovers mentioned by John were the same Passover. Its not going to work because that means the crucifixion would have to be AD27 too. Too early!

It creates less problems to say Jesus cleared the temple twice - once at the beginning, then again after three years.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

What I gathered from the text is that the temple itself was built in 46 years not implying that the temple complex was taking much longer. In that sence when the Jews spoke of that it took 46 years it wouldn't require that year was the finishing year of the temple. It could have being finished in the year 27AD with them saying that it took 46 years to build while in the year 29AD. The Jews looking back in retrospect that it had taken 46 years to build, while the year was 29AD. I see not requirement that the year that the temple was finished was that same year.

Since we have John the Baptist beginning his ministry in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar which would be in the year 29AD. That would fit alone with the beginning of Jesus ministry and him being around the age of 30. Making it very possible of an one year ministry of Jesus.

So what you are inferring is that the various Passovers mentioned by John were the same Passover. Its not going to work because that means the crucifixion would have to be AD27 too. Too early!

I see no reason to think that it was in 27AD for John ministry begun in 29AD. What I'm saying is that I think parts of John's letter got misaligned. So there's no reason to assume that there had to been two different cleansings of the temple. Which one is the fulfillment of the OT writtings that Jesus quoted?

Also as I think about it John has Jesus speaking of his death and resurrection [Destory this temple, and in three day I will rise it up] very early in his ministry while the synopic gospels has him mentioning his death much later.

It creates less problems to say Jesus cleared the temple twice - once at the beginning, then again after three years.

I don't see where it's less problems. If there is three passovers where is the three cleansings each time he went up to Jerusalem? A question that is over looked. That is if we assume that there are two! There should be three!

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Beckrl

What I gathered from the text is that the temple itself was built in 46 years not implying that the temple complex was taking much longer.

No. If you have a look at the history of Herod's temple, it was actually in the process of construction right through until the AD60's. So, when the Jewish leaders said it had taken 46 years building to that point, that is what they meant.

So, your theory has a problem that requires a better answer. Jesus crucifixion could not have taken place as early as AD27! (or AD29 for that matter)

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Oh silly me. Despite the passage saying 'He spoke this parable' and despite that I mention 'this is a parable', It seems (to some) that I may have failed to realize it is a parable.

Since it is a parable the number 'three' would represent 'holiness' as much as the fig tree represents Israel. In that this fig tree nor the number three requires them to be actually fulfilled literally. So one can't deduct from this parable that Jesus ministry were three years.

Re: Jesus Ministry Lasted 1 or 3 1/2 Years?

Originally Posted by Cyberseeker

No. If you have a look at the history of Herod's temple, it was actually in the process of construction right through until the AD60's. So, when the Jewish leaders said it had taken 46 years building to that point, that is what they meant.

So, your theory has a problem that requires a better answer. Jesus crucifixion could not have taken place as early as AD27! (or AD29 for that matter)

You know what would work is that Herod started building the temple around 17AD. It's interesting that Josephus said as much that Herod promised to rebuild and given a time to gather the need materials. If he infact did promise in 20AD/19AD it would not be hard to see that the building process only begun around 17AD.
So the King promised "he would not pull down the temple before having ready all the materials" (15.390) What you think?