unlikely:Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

One of the best in the world, they license build all the best American stuff. The only toy they don't have is the F-22. The saying is China could be a super power in 10 years, Japan could be one in 2 years. It is just a matter of the Japanese government ordering things in bulk.

/6 Aegis Destroyers//100+ F-15Js///domestic variant of the F-16 Agile Falcon////ability to make ICBMs if they wanted, etc

unlikely:Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

Plus, as someone mentioned, their own domestic version of the Aegis Destroyer which is superior to most of our own fleet.On the Sea and in the Air (which, for an island nation are the most important parts of your military) they sit pretty well./do they have submarines?

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

Plus, as someone mentioned, their own domestic version of the Aegis Destroyer which is superior to most of our own fleet.On the Sea and in the Air (which, for an island nation are the most important parts of your military) they sit pretty well./do they have submarines?

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

Plus, as someone mentioned, their own domestic version of the Aegis Destroyer which is superior to most of our own fleet.On the Sea and in the Air (which, for an island nation are the most important parts of your military) they sit pretty well./do they have submarines?

Yes they do. I'm not up to speed on their sub force, but last I checked it was very good for a conventional force.

One problem Japan does have is ramping up production of ships and planes. It takes a while to do that, and they are right on China's doorstep.

dittybopper:If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

It's not just that - it's that many in China tend to look at China the same way as Israeli settlers look at Israel - every square inch of just is Israel, and you can't divide it up anymore than you can divide up a person and end up with two people. They didn't take over Tibet because they wanted Tibet - they took over Tibet because it simply was part of China and it couldn't be otherwise. If they decide that these islands are part of China, they'll make a big fuss over it, even though it makes no more sense than Israelis and Palestinians arguing over 100 square meters of dust that you couldn't pay someone to live on in most places.

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:dittybopper: If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

It's not just that - it's that many in China tend to look at China the same way as Israeli settlers look at Israel - every square inch of just is Israel, and you can't divide it up anymore than you can divide up a person and end up with two people. They didn't take over Tibet because they wanted Tibet - they took over Tibet because it simply was part of China and it couldn't be otherwise. If they decide that these islands are part of China, they'll make a big fuss over it, even though it makes no more sense than Israelis and Palestinians arguing over 100 square meters of dust that you couldn't pay someone to live on in most places.

Have you seen the topography of the territory the Indians and Pakistanis have their little "border clashes" over?

dittybopper:If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

That's true for almost every country ever. Which is unfortunate because that seems to be the cause of most of humanity's unnecessary warfare over the years. Sometimes there are problems in the world that NEED to be settled with violence, but governments shouldn't start shiat just to boost their approval ratings.

digistil:dittybopper: If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

I know this is commonly mentioned, but I'm honestly not sure. Isn't most of China's strength in it's ability to defend itself, not to launch a sustained attack on foreign land.

I admittedly am not that knowledgeable on the subject, so enlightenment is appreciated.

Specific to Japan, China can do more immediate damage by putting an embargo on the export of metals used in electronics production.

But at least they both have a Korea. Perhaps they should each train their Korea, then have them face off in a regulated match, each country controlling their Korea by proxy. Japan is into proxy battles.

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

Plus, as someone mentioned, their own domestic version of the Aegis Destroyer which is superior to most of our own fleet.On the Sea and in the Air (which, for an island nation are the most important parts of your military) they sit pretty well./do they have submarines?

I think mostly diesel subs, but those are generally pretty good for coastal defense. China's subs are shiat, btw -- mostly old Soviet castoffs.

HMS_Blinkin:dittybopper: If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

That's true for almost every country ever. Which is unfortunate because that seems to be the cause of most of humanity's unnecessary warfare over the years. Sometimes there are problems in the world that NEED to be settled with violence, but governments shouldn't start shiat just to boost their approval ratings.

It's even more true for the PRC, for a couple of reasons:1. Demographic time bomb. There are tens of millions of marriage age men for whom there are no women. That can cause unrest when...

2. They aren't being worked to death by double digit economic growth and...

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

Plus, as someone mentioned, their own domestic version of the Aegis Destroyer which is superior to most of our own fleet.On the Sea and in the Air (which, for an island nation are the most important parts of your military) they sit pretty well./do they have submarines?

Yes.

Better too, as their subs are Diesel/Electric. D/Es are way more quiet than nukes, and the Japanese do not need insanely long range. Modern technology has made D/E boats not just cheap but on par technologically with nukes. We'd be smart to build a few for the cost savings.

G.I.R.B.:Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: dittybopper: If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

It's not just that - it's that many in China tend to look at China the same way as Israeli settlers look at Israel - every square inch of just is Israel, and you can't divide it up anymore than you can divide up a person and end up with two people. They didn't take over Tibet because they wanted Tibet - they took over Tibet because it simply was part of China and it couldn't be otherwise. If they decide that these islands are part of China, they'll make a big fuss over it, even though it makes no more sense than Israelis and Palestinians arguing over 100 square meters of dust that you couldn't pay someone to live on in most places.

Have you seen the topography of the territory the Indians and Pakistanis have their little "border clashes" over?

Epoch_Zero:digistil: dittybopper: If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

I know this is commonly mentioned, but I'm honestly not sure. Isn't most of China's strength in it's ability to defend itself, not to launch a sustained attack on foreign land.

I admittedly am not that knowledgeable on the subject, so enlightenment is appreciated.

Specific to Japan, China can do more immediate damage by putting an embargo on the export of metals used in electronics production.

But at least they both have a Korea. Perhaps they should each train their Korea, then have them face off in a regulated match, each country controlling their Korea by proxy. Japan is into proxy battles.

I think a large number of South Koreans would like to straight up murder you for calling them "Japan's Korea."Japan and Korea get along better than China and Japan, but there isn't exactly a lot of room for worse relations.

China also hasn't historically done well on offense. They got their nose very well bloodied by the Vietnamese shortly after the end of the Vietnam War. That was many moons past however at this point./they are a regional power with limited reach though, they have nowhere near the capability necessary to call them a global military power.

dittybopper:HMS_Blinkin: dittybopper: If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

That's true for almost every country ever. Which is unfortunate because that seems to be the cause of most of humanity's unnecessary warfare over the years. Sometimes there are problems in the world that NEED to be settled with violence, but governments shouldn't start shiat just to boost their approval ratings.

It's even more true for the PRC, for a couple of reasons:1. Demographic time bomb. There are tens of millions of marriage age men for whom there are no women. That can cause unrest when...

2. They aren't being worked to death by double digit economic growth and...

3. The commercial loans in the PRC are shown to be largely worthless.

Indeed. China has a LOT of long-term problems, which I always remember when people start going all "ZOMG China is going to overtake America forever!!11!!1!!"

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

Plus, as someone mentioned, their own domestic version of the Aegis Destroyer which is superior to most of our own fleet.On the Sea and in the Air (which, for an island nation are the most important parts of your military) they sit pretty well./do they have submarines?

Yes.

Better too, as their subs are Diesel/Electric. D/Es are way more quiet than nukes, and the Japanese do not need insanely long range. Modern technology has made D/E boats not just cheap but on par technologically with nukes. We'd be smart to build a few for the cost savings.

D/E boats are intriguing but they don't fit with our doctrine regarding the use of subs. They would be relegated to defense only because of their limited range. We put our subs forward and use area denial near the enemies coast.

That's not to say its a bad idea. There are some very good D/E subs out there, they just don't fit in our force matrix or grand strategy all too well. Plus, no one in the world we have a chance of fighting has the necessary capability to even get to the continental USA to justify having something like a point defense asset.

Specific to Japan, China can do more immediate damage by putting an embargo on the export of metals used in electronics production.

But at least they both have a Korea. Perhaps they should each train their Korea, then have them face off in a regulated match, each country controlling their Korea by proxy. Japan is into proxy battles.

You do know that the one thing that Koreans hate more than other Koreans (North vs South) are the Japanese right? They are pretty united in that animosity there, something about raping and pillaging during WWII... pretty much the same beef the Chinese have with Japan.

So to say Japan has "one" of the Koreas is ignorant presumption at best.

The Chinese should talk to the captains of the Russian battleships Knyaz Suvorov, Imperator Aleksander III, Borodino, Oslyabya, Navarin, Sissoi Veliky, Admiral Nakhimov and Admiral Ushakov. They'll tell them all about how the Japanese navy fights.

papa_neslo:You do know that the one thing that Koreans hate more than other Koreans (North vs South) are the Japanese right? They are pretty united in that animosity there, something about raping and pillaging during WWII... pretty much the same beef the Chinese have with Japan.

The younger generation of Koreans doesn't have that hate as strongly. You see a lot of consumption of Japanese culture in South Korea and Korean culture is being imported into Japan. The younger generation definitely sees China as the larger threat. Japan may have been dicks back in the 1900s, but now they're just the guys next door with the awesome porn cache, whereas China is the country actively being a dick.

Wicked Chinchilla:I think a large number of South Koreans would like to straight up murder you for calling them "Japan's Korea."Japan and Korea get along better than China and Japan, but there isn't exactly a lot of room for worse relations.

China also hasn't historically done well on offense. They got their nose very well bloodied by the Vietnamese shortly after the end of the Vietnam War. That was many moons past however at this point./they are a regional power with limited reach though, they have nowhere near the capability necessary to call them a global military power.

The reality is that no country other then the US has anywhere near the capability necessary to call them a global military power. We have to keep pretending that these limited regional powers are major threats so that we can justify spending as much on our military as everyone else combined.

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

Plus, as someone mentioned, their own domestic version of the Aegis Destroyer which is superior to most of our own fleet.On the Sea and in the Air (which, for an island nation are the most important parts of your military) they sit pretty well./do they have submarines?

Yes.

Better too, as their subs are Diesel/Electric. D/Es are way more quiet than nukes, and the Japanese do not need insanely long range. Modern technology has made D/E boats not just cheap but on par technologically with nukes. We'd be smart to build a few for the cost savings.

D/E boats are intriguing but they don't fit with our doctrine regarding the use of subs. They would be relegated to defense only because of their limited range. We put our subs forward and use area denial near the enemies coast.

That's not to say its a bad idea. There are some very good D/E subs out there, they just don't fit in our force matrix or grand strategy all too well. Plus, no one in the world we have a chance of fighting has the necessary capability to even get to the continental USA to justify having something like a point defense asset.

Before the advent of the all nuke force, we did have some D/Es for closer coastal work. I agree with you, it simply does not fit into the current force deployment or strategy but it will someday, sooner than later as well.

Philip Francis Queeg:Wicked Chinchilla: I think a large number of South Koreans would like to straight up murder you for calling them "Japan's Korea."Japan and Korea get along better than China and Japan, but there isn't exactly a lot of room for worse relations.

China also hasn't historically done well on offense. They got their nose very well bloodied by the Vietnamese shortly after the end of the Vietnam War. That was many moons past however at this point./they are a regional power with limited reach though, they have nowhere near the capability necessary to call them a global military power.

The reality is that no country other then the US has anywhere near the capability necessary to call them a global military power. We have to keep pretending that these limited regional powers are major threats so that we can justify spending as much on our military as everyone else combined.

Your IP address is now being tracked you know./well aware of just how ridiculous the disparity is

Wicked Chinchilla:Epoch_Zero: digistil: dittybopper: If the PRC gets in dire straights domestically, they'll look for an external enemy to deflect dissent. Just something to be aware of.

I know this is commonly mentioned, but I'm honestly not sure. Isn't most of China's strength in it's ability to defend itself, not to launch a sustained attack on foreign land.

I admittedly am not that knowledgeable on the subject, so enlightenment is appreciated.

Specific to Japan, China can do more immediate damage by putting an embargo on the export of metals used in electronics production.

But at least they both have a Korea. Perhaps they should each train their Korea, then have them face off in a regulated match, each country controlling their Korea by proxy. Japan is into proxy battles.

I think a large number of South Koreans would like to straight up murder you for calling them "Japan's Korea."Japan and Korea get along better than China and Japan, but there isn't exactly a lot of room for worse relations.

China also hasn't historically done well on offense. They got their nose very well bloodied by the Vietnamese shortly after the end of the Vietnam War. That was many moons past however at this point./they are a regional power with limited reach though, they have nowhere near the capability necessary to call them a global military power.

Specific to Japan, China can do more immediate damage by putting an embargo on the export of metals used in electronics production.

But at least they both have a Korea. Perhaps they should each train their Korea, then have them face off in a regulated match, each country controlling their Korea by proxy. Japan is into proxy battles.

You do know that the one thing that Koreans hate more than other Koreans (North vs South) are the Japanese right? They are pretty united in that animosity there, something about raping and pillaging during WWII... pretty much the same beef the Chinese have with Japan.

So to say Japan has "one" of the Koreas is ignorant presumption at best.

Out of the region's more powerful nations, Japan has a better relationship with South Korea than China. Japan didn't do itself any favors with their actions during wartime, and South Korea doesn't do itself any favors being snobby and retroactively claiming to be the point of genesis for other asian cultures. Japan doesn't have any concrete or complex relations with Best Korea, but China does. I was simply alluding to that.

China has one aircraft carrier. Just based on this i'm pretty sure between South Korea, Japan, and US that China's "navy" doesn't really stand a chance.The US could probably take on the entire worlds navy combined.

unlikely: Does Japan have a military worth speaking of? I honestly don't know.

They have a massive Anti-ship naval air wing with a hundred Orion patrol aircraft and a hundred Blackhawk/Seahawk anti-submarine choppers. Any shipping task force going up against them will need continuous fighter cover.

And their antisubmarine warfare ops are world-class. And aggressive. I wouldn't want to be the boat sent to mess with 'em.

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde:China has one aircraft carrier. Just based on this i'm pretty sure between South Korea, Japan, and US that China's "navy" doesn't really stand a chance.The US could probably take on the entire worlds navy combined.[i.imgur.com image 850x967]

Their one carrier is an ex-Soviet hand me down. It doesn't even represent an indigenous construction capability.

Philip Francis Queeg:purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: China has one aircraft carrier. Just based on this i'm pretty sure between South Korea, Japan, and US that China's "navy" doesn't really stand a chance.The US could probably take on the entire worlds navy combined.[i.imgur.com image 850x967]

Their one carrier is an ex-Soviet hand me down. It doesn't even represent an indigenous construction capability.

Satanic_Hamster:Philip Francis Queeg: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: China has one aircraft carrier. Just based on this i'm pretty sure between South Korea, Japan, and US that China's "navy" doesn't really stand a chance.The US could probably take on the entire worlds navy combined.[i.imgur.com image 850x967]

Their one carrier is an ex-Soviet hand me down. It doesn't even represent an indigenous construction capability.

And it won't have an operation air wing until what, 2017?

And when it does it will fly only air superiority fixed wing planes. It is not intended for a strike roll.