The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

Biradar Bhai
you always defended Moula Burhanuddin and now you call him a Mafia boss, did they cut your wazifa

Sadly, I am not part of the freeloader Mafia, of which, at present, Dawedar Mr. Muffy Saifuddin (DMMS) is the Boss.

As to the conclusion that SMB was like a Mafia boss, it is a logical deduction based on the following syllogism:

[P1] The Kothar is a Mafia organization
[P2] SMB was the head of Kothar

Hence, it is follows that:

[C] SMB was the head of a Mafia organization; or, in short, a Mafia boss.

Now, I admit that this conclusion can be false, if one or both of the premises, P1 or P2, are false. From extensive documentation it is clear that P1 is true. Hence, we can examine the validity of P2: i.e was SMB really in charge of the Kothar, or was it usurped during his lifetime by other nefarious agents.

I am inclined to believe that during the time of SMB, I mean, the whole of his 50+ years, he was not really in control. At first, his brothers, in particular, Yusuf Najmuddin and Aliasgar Kalimuddin, manipulated SMB. They both hated SKQ and were jealous of the fact that SKQ was elevated to the position of the mazoon. Also, they were very likely privy to the fact that STS and then SMB had performed nass on SKQ. The plotted against SKQ for two plus decades, before they got the opportunity to humiliate him in the Africa episode.

Meanwhile, both these wicked brothers of SMB were plotting to have DMMS to become next da'i even though they knew that by right and naas it should be SKQ. As we observe, Yusuf Najmuddin had DMMS marry his daughter, and Aliasgar Kalimuddin become the teacher (mufid) of DMMS. These are both facts. Then, after the death of YN, Aliasgar Kalimuddin hatched the nefarious plot of zaahir-baatin, making DMMS the central figure around which this conspiracy swirled. As we know, Mr. Taizoon blew the cover of this conspiracy, revealing that the central culprit of this fitnaat was none other than DMMS. After SMB's stroke they made the moves to stage a coup, declaring that DMMS was the mansoos. Obviously, no one had heard SMB before this time saying anything about nass, for the simple reason that it was already done on SKQ a long time ago.

Now, given all these facts it is possible that SMB was not a Mafia boss, as premise P2 might be false. In my opinion, I believe that SMB was actually innocent of most things that happened during his reign. However, as was the da'i he must bear some responsibility for the way his brothers and children stole, looted, and beat into submission the whole community. I consider him like Dhritarashtra: a man blinded by love to his children's faults. He could not control them, and when they grew up, like Duryodhan and Dushashan, completely took over power from him.

tl;dr: It is possible that SMB was not a mob boss. But, at the minimum, he is responsible for not controlling his brothers and children and let them rum amok, taking over the community and converting it into a fanatical cult.

Biradar Bhai
So now you are saying SMB may be partly responsible, before he was Massom as a Dai, what responsibility SKQ as Mazoon had. why does he not get any blame for watching and enjoying all the Ayash life in Saifee Mahal and that also goes to SKQ's children. when going was good, they had no issue but when going get tough they blame Syenda Muffadal BS and others. SKQ clan is part of the loot.
Did you hear if STF has asked forgiveness from followers of all the looting and living a good life when his father was Mazoon and did not say publicly and condemn all the atrocities done on Progressive Bohras in Udaipur or other people including his own cousin Bhai Shakir Taizoon.

either way you slice it, the more you think about the questions in your mind , the more the answers will become clear as daylight; bohri religion is not a religion but a well organized mafia machinery where monies are laundered and the few who have their hands to the loot enjoy a life of super rich.

Biradar Bhai
So now you are saying SMB may be partly responsible, before he was Massom as a Dai, what responsibility SKQ as Mazoon had. why does he not get any blame for watching and enjoying all the Ayash life in Saifee Mahal and that also goes to SKQ's children. when going was good, they had no issue but when going get tough they blame Syenda Muffadal BS and others. SKQ clan is part of the loot.
Did you hear if STF has asked forgiveness from followers of all the looting and living a good life when his father was Mazoon and did not say publicly and condemn all the atrocities done on Progressive Bohras in Udaipur or other people including his own cousin Bhai Shakir Taizoon.

The question 'is a da'i is "maasoom"?' is a difficult one. Perhaps we can admit that a da'i is qul-maasoom in spiritual and religious matters, but to consider him to be infallible in matters of secular administration is a stretch.

In fact, not even the Imams can consider themselves to be perfect or infallible in secular matters. Two quick examples will suffice:

First, consider the ideas presented in the Rasaail Ikhwan as-Safa, so beloved of the FD folk. (I have written about the influence of the Rasaail on SKQ's thoughts here before). Most of the scientific parts of that book are wrong in light of modern discoveries in science and mathematics. They mostly followed previous authors, for example, Aristotle, and hence, make the same mistakes as the earlier authors do. Even their ideas on philosophy are not all correct, mostly as they based on faulty science.

Second, consider the time of Imam al-Mustansir. During his time, the power of the Fatimid state declined and the imam was mostly under the control of powerful generals who rescued the realm from several crisis. In fact, on his death the Fatimids split into two factions: the Nizari and Mustali branches. I believe that SMB's time was similar. He was controlled by powerful interests who controlled the worldly power of the dawaat. (Incidentally: the FD folks have chosen Imam al-Mustansir's qibla in the Ibn Tulun as a model for the wooden qibla they use at present).

SKQ is not blameless. Please see my previous posts here. I agree that he kept quiet and enjoyed all the perks of his position. However, again, I am not sure he could have done anything different. The brothers of SMB (except one) were older than SKQ and he was likely sidelined from an early time, specially by YN and AK.

One thing I am certain: DMMS is a product of a coup within the dawaat. He is intellectually and temperamentally not qualified to be a da'i. SMB never ranted and raved from the taakhat. I have never once heard SMB get angry and loose control of himself. One feels relieved if DMMS does not go off script. DMMS is clearly after money and power. The way he paraded his old father, stuffing his mouth with dentures and forcing him to sit besides him for hours and pushing him to do sajdaa was really pathetic. Not the actions of a noble man, leave alone a da'i.

^
Biradar
You did dance around the question by Brother Abde53
Do you hold STF responsible for any of problem in Dawat? Do you hold them responsible for aggression done to people from Udaipur when they did enjoy the life at Saify Mahal? SKQ and STF are also the old wine in the new bottle.There were many reasons why Taizoon changed his allegiance from STF to SMS, unfortunately I can not reveal those reasons as I had promised Taizoon to keep my conversations private.
Biradar, I do respect you but you have changed your positions so many times from defending SMB to now blaming him that some times your credibility becomes suspect.

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Biradar
You did dance around the question by Brother Abde53
Do you hold STF responsible for any of problem in Dawat? Do you hold them responsible for aggression done to people from Udaipur when they did enjoy the life at Saify Mahal? SKQ and STF are also the old wine in the new bottle.There were many reasons why Taizoon changed his allegiance from STF to SMS, unfortunately I can not reveal those reasons as I had promised Taizoon to keep my conversations private.
Biradar, I do respect you but you have changed your positions so many times from defending SMB to now blaming him that some times your credibility becomes suspect.

Taizoon is a mentally unstable person. He has been tortured mentally and physically and his actions, and specially his thoughts, do not prove anything. In the grand scheme of things he is no longer relevant.

As to holding STF responsible. No, I do not think he is responsible. He had no power during the time of SMB and hence can not be held responsible for what happened then. The inner circle of SMB were few of his brothers and all his children. The children of SKQ were not involved in running any major organization of the dawaat.

One can both defend and blame SMB, depending on the situation at hand. In many ways, SMB was a truly great da'i. Under him there was a revival of Fatemid architecture and learning, and significant expansion of cohesion in the community. He was at heart a kind man, and never got angry in public. It is possible that he was weak in that he could not control his children. However, this was out of excessive love for them.

Sadly, he got habituated to luxury and collected vast wealth, or let the wealth be collected in his name. I can recall an interesting incident: once new misaaqs were being taken. The Kothari Mafia around him were asking thousands of dollars before they would allow anyone to get their children's misaaq. When SMB found out he was very upset, stopped all proceedings completely.

A detached analysis of his life and all the various dissident movements in his reign is not yet written. Perhaps it never will be, as his followers think him totally perfect, while his detractors think him totally imperfect. It is more likely that the truth lies somewhere in between. Hence, there is no inconsistency in defending him for this and blaming him for that.

either way you slice it, the more you think about the questions in your mind , the more the answers will become clear as daylight; bohri religion is not a religion but a well organized mafia machinery where monies are laundered and the few who have their hands to the loot enjoy a life of super rich.

The bohras follow a version of Islam that is egalitarian, highly intellectual and capable of adopting to modernity. One needs to read the great philosophical, scientific and historical treatises to understand the depth of learning displayed by the Fatimid Imams and their da'is and then, after the occultation, the du'at mutlaqeen. STS was a very great scholar and poet. He composed thousands of verses, hundreds of du'as etc.

It is only recently that the unchecked power of the dawaat machinery has created huge problems in the community. Yes, now it appears that every two-dime Shehzada and mullah is hell bent on accumulating as much wealth as possible. This is essentially a subversion of the true spirit of Islam and the Ismaili faith. I believe that the Fatemi Dawaat people will modernize and help usher in a new phase of the dawaat that is modern, intellectual and not materialistic. They have made an attempt towards this, but they are small and it is too early to tell if they will be successful or not.

Egalitarian...sure....
The sujnis for the various relatives of the dai must be laid out to raise their level to that of the common folk then. That must be it.
Sometimes Biradar, I don't know what you are smoking

Egalitarian...sure....
The sujnis for the various relatives of the dai must be laid out to raise their level to that of the common folk then. That must be it.
Sometimes Biradar, I don't know what you are smoking

Yes, I sometimes wonder that too!

But, more seriously: laying out sujni for random relative of da'i has nothing to do with the core Islamic beliefs. It is likely a recent innovation by the mad-mullahs to distinguish themselves from the rest of us, and create a permanent priestly class. My key point is the following: if you put out a sujni for some random person, you are a fool. Unfortunately, vast majority of Bohris have been turned into submissive sheep, and are unable, like yourself, to distinguish between Islam and the mad-house that is the modern Bohra cult.

As you state , bohrism is a highly intellectual society, if this knowledge was imparted to the ordinary citizens. Mullahs do not even want one to read the quran without permission. Ignorance and brainwashed belief is rampant. Just take the case of syedna M. Burhanuddin. He has been to hospitals in England, Germany, and India for God knows how many times. His naked old body was lying on the operating table with the hands of doctors and nurses running all over his body to somehow make him well . To the doctors and nurses , this was another body of flesh and bones, but to the common bohri he is the untouchable, until and unless you are Mohdi , then you can give a hug or be president of some African nation to shake and clap hands with him.
A lot of educating is needed and the kothar will never offer that because they know better. Even their madrasas constantly brainwash the young minds into believing that their dai is everything for them. These are the students who turn into violent men who grab and steal and have a total worldly outlook. They think praying in the first row is their right because there is more blessings on them in the first row. This mental attitude cannot be changed because the kothari forces are fully aware of its consequences. These and other illiterates will dish out thousands to be a sheikh or mulla because they have been brainwashed in the early childhood.

Dershowitz seems to be much more offended that a reference is made to the holocaust than about this particular issue

Alan Dershowitz is pro Israel orthodox Jewish lawyer.
Hypocrisy at SMS Goons, they tell in their Waiz no to mingle with Jews and how Jews defrauded Prophet Mohammed and made his life miserable and how we should NOT do business with Jews, but when it came to save their own skin (pun intended) they decided to hire a high power, high priced attorney whose credentials are very Pro Israel and Anti Palestinians.

At first, Maneka announced a legislation to end the practice following representations from women of the Dawoodi Bohra community

In Dilemma

Women and Child Development Minister Maneka Gandhi is treading cautiously on the issue of female genital mutilation considering the cordial links between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin, the spiritual leader of Dawoodi Bohra community. At first, Maneka announced a legislation to end the practice following representations from women of the Dawoodi Bohra community. On the advice of ministry officials, it was later decided that she would write to Syedna and ask him to abolish the practice on his own. It is now learnt that the ministry has briefed the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) on the matter. And it has been decided that the PMO will initiate a conversation with the Syedna on its own.

On Officer’s Duty
Having first left the government red-faced by dragging it to court, Director General Health Services (DGHS) Dr Jagdish Prasad now has a consultant to help his cause, although officers rarely appoint their own media consultants. Rashmi Kumar, a former television journalist, has been appointed media consultant to the DGHS. Dr Prasad, whose tenure as DGHS was to end in February, had moved the court a day earlier on the ground that the government decision to increase

In Demand
A K Sharma, a 1987-batch IPS officer from Gujarat cadre, seems to be the most sought-after officer in CBI. Sharma, who joined the agency in 2015, was given charge of Joint Director (Policy) earlier this year. He recently took over as JD-Anti Corruption (Headquarters), the key division that handles politically sensitive and big-ticket corruption scandals. Sharma replaced R P Agarwal, IPS officer from Assam Meghalaya cadre of 1986 batch, on completion of his central deputation.

Yes FBI and DHS have beefed up their operation in (San Jose/LA/Chicago and many major cities where there are major Markaz) offices to pursue FGM cases..as well as Money Laundering
This could have been avoided if only SMS would have come out and condemned the practice and apologized for any past aggression just like Vatican did in case of Holocaust where Catholic Church played a role cooperating with Nazi and as well the same with Priests being Pedophiles..
Because of SMS's stupid stand and contradictory FARMANS, many more will be affected.It also did not help when Kothari Goons created a Burhani Medical Doctor's List during Houston Ashra Circus to provide Khidmat. They provided an easy List of Bohra Abde/Amte Doctors in USA to law Enforcement officials. This is called Mojiza of the Moula, make work easy for law enforcement in USA

Yes FBI and DHS have beefed up their operation in (San Jose/LA/Chicago and many major cities where there are major Markaz) offices to pursue FGM cases..as well as Money Laundering
This could have been avoided if only SMS would have come out and condemned the practice and apologized for any past aggression just like Vatican did in case of Holocaust where Catholic Church played a role cooperating with Nazi and as well the same with Priests being Pedophiles..
Because of SMS's stupid stand and contradictory FARMANS, many more will be affected.It also did not help when Kothari Goons created a Burhani Medical Doctor's List during Houston Ashra Circus to provide Khidmat. They provided an easy List of Bohra Abde/Amte Doctors in USA to law Enforcement officials. This is called Mojiza of the Moula, make work easy for law enforcement in USA

You say: Yes FBI and DHS have beefed up their operation in (San Jose/LA/Chicago and many major cities where there are major Markaz) offices to pursue FGM cases..as well as Money Laundering

US based and international law enforcement resources from multiple countries made up of units that are investigating Dawoodi Bohra operations and many aspects from sex crimes, money laundering, border security.

Law enforcement across many countries are now being supported by dozene of volunteers from the community who are assisting with several investigations.

Law enforcement across many countries are very familiar with Dawoodi Bohra cultural practises, language and activities. They know what is illegal what is questionable and what is unusual by social norms. They have enormous data that they can use for years.

Kothar publicity stunts are useless. The DBWRF kind of initiatives are no match for what the future holds for kothar whether SMS or STF is in control . The circus in the west will end.

SMS and orthodox Bohra intelligence to outgun the Australia and US cases by being stubbornly conservative and not reforming was a disaster will cause drain on money to lawyers and hurt Bohra reputation in the long term. If they think UK Canada or Europe is not watching get real.

The effects of SMS advisors fxxx up is already being felt in many regions where he is unable to get VIP status and fears arrest or questioning by authorities and media. Many of the publicity stunt are falling flat when inviting government officials to parties.

well looks like he had a warm welcome in Kuwait. It is time for the new generation to get out on the streets and protest for the money laundering and ayashi of this mafia regime , otherwise rest assured muffadal saheb is getting their children ready for the next dai to exploit the mumineen.

What good so far, the actual number of FGM cases in moderates are dropping in western countries. Amte are literally fearful to assist. Women are having conversations about it with men. That is reform. No moderate will be forced to comply to undergo FGM if they don't want to. Amtes risk arrests no more bensaheb or Busaheba farman as a must. No Amil will dare enforce this. This is best undilluted publicity short of banning.

What is at stake, Mufadal Saifudin's reputation and his orthodox followers contacts in high positions in governments. His photo ops with likes of Mayor of London or Governor of Texas are impossible in such climate. Even BJP has difficulty covering up FGM protests. Police departments in west now have files upon files marked Dawoodi Bohra Community.

Reformists and activists rag tag groups around the world are known and listened to by authorities for their issues. A bunch of peacful protests in UK can disrupt the plans of a wealthy dynasty. This has spawned and given courage for protests aroundthe world.

Whatever the case outcome Bohra community will be different. Saifudin is now forced to comply with tolerance and laws.