Originally posted by freight tomsen
"[The New World Order] cannot happen without U.S. participation, as we are the most significant single component. Yes, there will be a New World
Order, and it will force the United States to change it's perceptions."
-Henry Kissinger, 1994

"Some even believe we (Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my
family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic
structure---one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
-David Rockefeller, in 2002 autobiography

Does anyone doubt there is an Illuminati/NWO conspiracy out there?

I might be a bit more convinced if I could see credible sources for these quotes. rather than just names and dates

Originally posted by Crakeur
well, they've been trying for years to no avail so I'd say there's nothing to worry about.

if they couldn't pull it off in the 1700's, when the world was more easily controlled, how do you expect them to do it now?

I agree that if they were there, they would have won by now.

I think illusions of the Illuminati come from a human need to justify why bad things happen in life. When we can't get a job, or when a country wins
a war, why say that it was the result of mere chance when we can ascribe animus behind it?

Frankly, if there's an Illuminati out there, I don't care. I live my life as if I have no bounds, and that has pretty much turned out to be true.

And if they really are out there, why shouldn't your goal or my goal be to join in? I've never complained about being one of the powerless; I've
always planned on being one of the movers and shakers.

Of course there are relatively clandestine groups of powerful individuals who cooperate to control international commerce and politics for their own
gain and possibly for what they consider to be the overall benefit of mankind.

Do they entirely succeed? No.
Can they be stopped? No.
Does everyone even want them stopped? No.

The best anyone could possibly hope to do about these groups is to work very hard, make a lot of money, join all of the right secret fraternities, and
work from the inside to shape their policies.

Originally posted by sb2012
Well, Alberto Pike received a vision as did some other, what to setup and how to do it, at
least partially. This is what they need to do, other stuff like grabbing as much as you can, is a bonus. Similar to deals in Iraq after you demolish
it. Nice plan.

I read part of the link you provided, and surely you can't be seriously claiming this is legitimate prophecy stuff. For example:

The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be
brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine.
During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and
held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.

You are aware that the term Nazism, and the idea of Nazi's didn't exist until Hitler coined the phrase for his new political organization, called
the National Socialist German Workers' Party, or in german Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Whoever made up these
prophecies, clearly wrote them well after WW2, and it certianly wasn't Albert Pike. The term Nazi, or Nazism would have been completely meaningless
to both Pike and his friend Mazzini, sinc ethe organization didn't exist at the time.

I mean, geez, if someone is going to commit a fraud like this, and claim that Albert Pike wrote a letter to a friend in 1871, at least do a decent job
of it!

Yes, it's all fraud. They even say World War 3 may start between Arabs and Israel. I mean, what are they thinking? I never saw more peaceful people
than in Middle East. And God is looking over Israel, making it peaceful nation, awaiting Jesus to return and he will then sing happy songs for
eternity.

Read rest of the site for more info. Aim of WW2 was to create Israel and to move most of the Jews there. Nazis wanted to move them to Madagascar but
then plans changed. Still, they moved them.

No, he didn't. The 33° is an honorary degree given only to 32° Knights Commander of the Court of Honour in recognition of outstanding services.
Since Reagan was not a Mason, he obviously could not have received the honorary 33°.

On February 11, 1988, delegates from the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite and Imperial Council of the Shriners visited the White House, and
presented Reagan with plaques in recognition of his service to his country. There is a world of difference between giving a guy a plaque and making
him a Mason.

For others i am sure they are all connected since they are already at BC.

Since Bohemian Club has nothing to do with Freemasonry, I don't see your point.

Exactly my point from some other thread, how they influence people - Reagan received honorary degree, felt special... And doing favors later, if
needed. He was not the first nor the last bought that way.

BC is visited by many masons and people from clubs and societies are connected. I am not saying they are all conspiring all the time but they do it
many times to gather wealth and political influence. Some get orders from above when needed. Nothing mysterious about this and i really don't see why
would someone need to water down every thread discussing this.

Wee, look Reagan and Nixon will worship Moloch later!

About favors (unrelated to BC pic above), just one example how it's done - Nixon sold out medical care to corporations and next day, on Feb 18, 1971
he LIED to the American public they will get more medical care. Check documentary Sicko at ~30 min.

About Pike's letter, i am not here to prove if it's real or not, but just to provide info and let people decide. Many events in Middle East today do
match, and also i see Israel is on the map, so something must be true.

Today is hard to get real information because of all the lies and agendas, so it's crucial to get multiple sources and see for yourself what could be
true and what is propaganda or watering down.

Originally posted by Crakeur
well, they've been trying for years to no avail so I'd say there's nothing to worry about.

if they couldn't pull it off in the 1700's, when the world was more easily controlled, how do you expect them to do it now?

I think that it might be easier because of Technology. Its all around us. Whatever they may be; PCs, cameras, etc. their everywhere at the control of
the elite or higher ups. There may be a scenario reminescent of the Terminator, but they'll use the techonology for their own evil intentions (the
Illuminati i mean). Just my 2 cents.

For the most part, yes, I tend to believe that somewhere, rich and powerful people are conspiring to become more so. I don't go too far beyond that
-- I find that it is enough. But I would like to take this moment to go on a sort of sub-rant... I don't find them all that frightening or
worrisome -- they just make me feel bored and unimpressed (another group of human doings something base and spiteful -- imagine that).

The above quote, probably the most quoted line of the 20th century, and what I consider Yeats's whimsical nod to the second law of thermodynamics,
has always amused me (at least out of context, since the poem as a whole is most definitely a downer). Whenever I see discussions on the duplicity of
secret groups in their efforts to establish TotalControl(tm), I like to think of that line.

Plans go awry. Predator becomes prey (or, for all you Radiohead fans: "The big fish eat the
little ones", and there's always a bigger fish). People, even mindless stupid people, for no evident mathematical reason, occasionally do
unpredictable things: they quit when they're ahead, they convert on the road to Damascus, they fall on their own swords.

The rich and the powerful are no more special than a grain of sand and the universe will break them like the rest of us.

We can beat them, we are much more powerful than these controllers. Remember, they are only a handful, maybe 500 Elite conservatively. There are 6
billion of us. We can beat them, the game has been to keep that fact hidden, and to program our minds to view ourselves as powerless.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
Excellent post, great job digging up the research.

We can beat them, we are much more powerful than these controllers. Remember, they are only a handful, maybe 500 Elite conservatively. There are 6
billion of us. We can beat them, the game has been to keep that fact hidden, and to program our minds to view ourselves as powerless.

Hehehe, yea. But how can we weed out the mindless followers of these Elites, or those who care at all for that matter. Most people who hear us talk
about this specific subject calls us "crazy" and such. And yes, with all conspiracies and everything in the Paranormal, we must find the smoking gun
to what we're looking for. and in the field of the NWO we see that the information is in front of us, its just we dont know the secrets behind it....

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
My personal feels on the NWO is that it is really misnamed. For me, the NWO, is really the OWO (Old World Order.)

Hmmm...I've been saying this (in very nearly this exact way) for quite a long while now. IMO, the real NWO was the birth of the American
Constitutional Republic...Had our People & Government adhered to it, this would have broken the history of human civilization away from "Government
being sovereign over People" into People being sovereign over Government." Yes, the USA was a very bold experiment set forth by a bunch of (for lack
of a more accurate term) geniuses; They wanted to make a turn for the better in human society, but those self-proclaimed NWO/Illuminati are merely
trying to re-establish the historical "status quo." In truth, they are not looking ahead to a bold new future, but looking behind to stifle the
human drive towards true social maturity.

Originally posted by zorgon
NWO? What NWO...
All I see is the same world order as there was before...

Looks like you missed the point that I'd just quoted above...

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
But do i believe there will be a one world religion or government? No, i dont. That would cut into the interests of those pushing austerity programs
threwout the world. Do i believe that these groups want to see the earths population decline by 1/5th or more? No, again, it would cut into the
interests of those groups.

Not really. For one thing, they may find control much easier to maintain if they can get the masses to "worship" what they do or what they can give
to their slaves; Religion is a big motivator, but they'd prefer everybody believe in the same thing--Blind obedience to them. After all, it wasn't
that long ago that rulers had kept their positions by merging Church & State to provide them with "divine right to rule."
For another thing, the NWO/Illuminati do recognize the fact that human overpopulation becomes a serious strain on the limited resources this
planet can sustain/renew. Therefore, it would be in their best interests to reduce human population by a significant margin; After all, they'd only
need a few hundred-million people left to provide them with enough slaves to keep them on the high-hog anyway...

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I think there is a lot of disinfo out there around these groups, largely created by paraniod minds, and in part perpetuated by these groups in order
to throw people off the trail.

No doubt about that...After all, the more chaff they throw, the harder it is to find the real target.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
Admiring Weishaupt ?

Have you seen the Star Trek movie, "Wrath of Kahn?"
(I may not be precise with my quotes, but pretty close)
Kirk: "Mr. Spock, don't misunderstand us. We humans have a streak of barbarity in us. Apalling, yes, but there nevertheless. We can admire a man &
still work against him at the same time."
People like Weishaupt, Hitler, Genghis Kahn, etc, etc. down throughout history must have been geniuses to go as far as they did...Evil
geniuses, but geniuses nevertheless. People like me, for example, can take an objective look at their genius, then subjectively recognize the
evil...And remember to oppose/watch out for people like that during my own lifetime.

Originally posted by RWPBR
Paranoid delusions of people who, for whatever reason, have no control over themselves or their own lives and need someone to blame for their
shortcommings and failures.

Try looking at some history...Conspiracy Theory has to rely on some core facts & some facts are out there for your researching pleasure.
However, by its very nature, conspiracists do have to keep as much of a "low profile" as possible.
A few sources:
HIstorically documented "secret societies" include the Society of Assassins, the various "mystery cults" of the Roman Empire (one of which
includes the Christian philosopher Montanus who named his group "Illuminati" to reform the then-young Christian Church).
Arthur Edward Waite, "The Real History of the Rosicrucians"--"Beneath the broad tide of human history there flow the stealthy undercurrents of the
secret societies, which frequently determine in the depths the changes that take place on the surface."
John Robinson, "Proofs of a Conspiracy"--"The pupils (of the Illuminati) are convinced that the order will rule the world. Every member therefore
becomes a ruler."
Carroll Quigley, "Tragedy and Hope"--"Three hundred men, all of whom know one another, direct the economic destiny of Europe and choose their
successors from among themselves."
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, "The Book of the SubGenius"--"The stupider it looks, the more important it probably is." and "They (the Illuminati)
engineered the spread of crazy conspiracy theories, because even though many of them are true, they still sound crazy..." and "The only
problem with enlightenment is that if you think you got it, you didn't get it." (Sorry, I just couldn't leave out these...

)
Richard J. Whalen, "The Founding Father"--"Power is the end. What other delight is there but to enjoy the sheer sense of control?"

A few more quotes to look up:
"For not all true things are the truth...[and] not all true things are to be said to all men."--Bishop Clement of Alexandria
"Behold our secret. Remember that the end justifies the means, and that the wise ought to take all the means to do good which the wicked take to do
evil."--Adam Weishaupt
"...Nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was planned that way."--President Franklin D. Roosevelt

Actually, the "ancestors" within an Illuminati group can plan ahead in general terms, but it's up to the descendants to merge the general plans &
concepts with contemporary technology & methodology to deal with the details.
As a for-instance-example: Taking over a government is conceptually no differentjthan taking control of a smaller group; The only difference lies in
the cost (in resources & time).
In a 1957 book by Jan Kozak (member of the Czechoslovivakian Communist Party), he described the "general concepts" that would enable a small
conspiratorial group to control a government:
First, infiltrate a few key members into a government structure. They would not need any real power except that required to introduce at least some
legislation.
Second, create a real or alleged with the government, that either denounces something the government did or point out some required duty that the
government didn't do.
Third, field a mob in reaction to the "grievances" to demand that the government solve the problem with legislation. (Kinda sounds like modern-day
lobbyists in Washington D.C. right now, doesn't it?)
Fourth, bring in legislation (oppressive legislation) that fails to solve the problem. (Does the Patriot Act sound familiar here?)
Repeat the last 3 steps until the government turns totalitarian.
According to conspiracy theorist A. Ralph Epperson, Hitler used a very similar method to gain power...And then research Project Paperclip (made
available by the Freedom of Information Act) to see what really happened to quite a few top-level Nazis after the Nuremburg Trials.

Originally posted by sb2012
Yes, it's all fraud

Just because someone points out one obvious fraud, does that automatically cause you to discount all other evidence? Not a very wise
assumption...

Originally posted by Astrithr
I still don't really believe. There's no hard evidence, and besides, even if there was something to it, what could we possibly do to change
it?

Originally posted by Astrithr
I still don't really believe. There's no hard evidence, and besides, even if there was something to it, what could we possibly do to change
it?

I find this to be the most discouraging attitude. You're saying "there's no hard evidence" to people in here who have been researching the
conspiracy for years. There's plenty of hard evidence, just a lack of passionate discerners of truth digging in the necessary direction. It's not
a "belief" thing, its a fact thing. And you ask what could we possibly do to change it? Allow me to repost something I wrote in another thread:

Someone stated that just spreading information was useless, and another person said we've already lost. From my standpoint, people as knowledgable
about the NWO as all of you should be empowered, energetic, and positive. I'm more encouraged by NWO deniers than by those who know but slump around
with this defeatist attitude. The sheeple are awakening, there is activism on multiple fronts, soldiers are refusing orders, congressmen and women are
stepping up and speaking out, documentaries are being produced and spread at the speed of light, the NWO is shaking in their Bilderbergs, and the
snowball effect of the truth is a beautiful thing to watch. I don't know where you're getting your negative information, but I recommend looking
elsewhere for inspiration, because it's out there, it's real, the counter-offensive is the biggest it's ever been and grows daily.

Also, a lot of people mentioned being ostracised from family and friends due to their superior knowledge of what's happening in the world. I've
experienced something like this in the past, but since realized it was my own fault in the way I delivered the information. Years ago I alienated my
family with my advance knowledge of 9/11 by presenting it with negative energy and anger. No one wants to hear that. The information must be spread in
a loving and positive manner. My dad has gone from denying everything for 5 years and not talking to me for a while to a complete turn-around where he
is awakening people of his generation every day. I sat down with him calmly and watched Loose Change, then 9/11 Mysteries, then Terrorstorm, then more
Alex Jones, then David Icke and so on and so forth and we discussed everything as he slowly woke up. There was plenty of resistence at first, but I
met that with understanding and slow nudges, not "in your face, I know what I'm talking about" tactics.

Now my dad has a mass email list of all employees at his office who keep in regular contact with him and me as we continue to spread the word to our
friends, families, friend's families, familes' friends and so on. I talk to people waking up everyday that I've never met who thank me and tell me
stories about themselves and the people around them. So don't be discouraged anyone. Keep explaining everything to your loved ones and do so with
positivity, not with a "we've already lost" attitude. And be confident that simply spreading the info IS ENOUGH to stop them. Once NWO opposition
is as popular as American Idol (and it's quickly getting there) they won't be able to fool anyone or claim any power over us. We outnumber them
about 6 billion to 10,000.

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