Also you're confusing the rules by saying Wrestling only controls for 2 seconds for the pin vs Judo's 25 seconds. While wrestling, you have to basically be in control for the full 3 minute round or you'll get pinned instantly. Once you lose control to the opponent, it's over, regardless of score or points. (Basically your ippon. Except ours comes from the ground, yours from the clinch/stand-up)

This is completely wrong. I was a HORRIBLE wrestler. I scored a single point in my 2 year wrestling career, and MANY MANY MANY times I managed to avoid getting pinned, or even fallign victim to the 16 point technical pin, while having absolutely no control over anything except for the love of god don't stay on my back.

And I don't know where you get a 3 minute ground game from. Almost every wrestling match of watched or been involved in spends at least 50% of the time standing. Usually more.

A very frequent argument i have with my uncle and cousin (uncle wrestled in HS, and cousin currently is.) is whether judo or wrestling would be more effective for self defense. My cousin states that judo is simply ineffective, and that none of the techniques would work in real life (yet they do in randori and tournament). And him and my uncle seem to think its this no resistance kata based martial art, and that none of it is of any use. So id like to see what the bullshido community here thinks about this topic.

If you're involved in grappling, you're already in a better position to defend yourself than if you're studying karate or another poor striking art...

Obviously they're both legit and I think it's more the individual than the art, and when talking about the art it's theyway you train....but there's a few things I think I'll bring up because I've been in a slightly similar situation.

I only wrestled for one year in high school (in Missouri). I've been dabbling in MMA (in N. Ireland) far much longer than the year I wrested but from what I've seen unless people grapple or are involved with other martial arts in Ireland & the UK they don't have much experience confronting wrestlers (generally as there are wrestling clubs, but dwarfed by a long shot by football, e.t.c) I for one would never think of pinning someone using wrestling for self defence.

Now I have a lot of respect for Judo and am blaming this on 2 factors, as I can't help but gaff it off now in the back of my mind after this. There's a fella in town known for being kind of a wanker with drink in him, and he's a Judo black belt. I had a few people back to my house one night, and when I mentioned I did a bit of MMA he kept insisting on 'going at it' a bit. To humour him I did and the guy put himself in a standing guillotine diving at me with his head down. You know how hurt egos kill a party, so when I tried laughing it off to go back to drinking he made a few people uncomfortable insisting on 'going at it' again, so when we did he threw a couple elbows at me, so I double legged him and dumped him on his side. He shut up after that holding his arms which swelled up, and next I saw him a couple weeks later at a Halloween party at the bar he was in a cast with a broken arm. I was just baffled how a Judo black belt couldn't breakfall when put in an unexpected situation....so I'm hoping it was because he trained at a **** gym.....

Another is I've rolled with another Judo black belt in the gym. Now I only know standard chokes&locks that my BJJ mates show me on the side, but I was able to primarily rely on wrestling to get me in positions where I was able to use them. To be fair I'm 6'1 and about 210 l.b.s., and that guys was stocky but his head came to my shoulders. In a self defence situation I'm going to say it depends at how good they are at what they do, and height and weight do come into factor.

Now I have a lot of respect for Judo and am blaming this on 2 factors, as I can't help but gaff it off now in the back of my mind after this. There's a fella in town known for being kind of a wanker with drink in him, and he's a Judo black belt. I had a few people back to my house one night, and when I mentioned I did a bit of MMA he kept insisting on 'going at it' a bit. To humour him I did and the guy put himself in a standing guillotine diving at me with his head down. You know how hurt egos kill a party, so when I tried laughing it off to go back to drinking he made a few people uncomfortable insisting on 'going at it' again, so when we did he threw a couple elbows at me, so I double legged him and dumped him on his side. He shut up after that holding his arms which swelled up, and next I saw him a couple weeks later at a Halloween party at the bar he was in a cast with a broken arm. I was just baffled how a Judo black belt couldn't breakfall when put in an unexpected situation....so I'm hoping it was because he trained at a **** gym.....

You know what? I always find these posts interesting.

Alcohol consumption makes anyone of any skill lose their ****. Yet, people will still use the rank, skill, or higher education appeal to make a point. Notice how the alcohol made you laugh off a situation where someone was hurt? He broke his arm and you kept drinking. Alcohol made you both act like idiots and doesn't reflect properly on the effectiveness or lack in any art. So, basically a party, drinking, ego and general stupidity makes you hope the gym was shitty/

Another is I've rolled with another Judo black belt in the gym. Now I only know standard chokes&locks that my BJJ mates show me on the side, but I was able to primarily rely on wrestling to get me in positions where I was able to use them. To be fair I'm 6'1 and about 210 l.b.s., and that guys was stocky but his head came to my shoulders. In a self defence situation I'm going to say it depends at how good they are at what they do, and height and weight do come into factor.

When I was training regularly, I can't tell you how many "lower belts" got the "best of me." Why? I'm there to teach, instruct, assist and expand your knowledge. I am not there to beat your ass for the satisfaction of my ego. It's funny how ego makes you see this in the "judo doesn't work" light and I bet the BB might have a completely different story.

Alcohol consumption makes anyone of any skill lose their ****. Yet, people will still use the rank, skill, or higher education appeal to make a point. Notice how the alcohol made you laugh off a situation where someone was hurt? He broke his arm and you kept drinking. Alcohol made you both act like idiots and doesn't reflect properly on the effectiveness or lack in any art. So, basically a party, drinking, ego and general stupidity makes you hope the gym was shitty/

He wasn't hurt at the time I tried laughing it off. That was when he was getting a bit serious and I was trying to lighten the mood. We did as you say though carry on drinking after he was hurt which probably wasn't the best behaviour, but he was at least humble then and we didn't know it was actually broke at the time.....that guy does have a reputation for being a huge dick and using his Judo around town which people said to me later were glad that that happened. The big mistake was allowing him back to my house in the 1st place.

Originally Posted by It is Fake

When I was training regularly, I can't tell you how many "lower belts" got the "best of me." Why? I'm there to teach, instruct, assist and expand your knowledge. I am not there to beat your ass for the satisfaction of my ego. It's funny how ego makes you see this in the "judo doesn't work" light and I bet the BB might have a completely different story.

Sorry I intended to make that post express that size and strength do come into play instead of an art&rank comparison. Since we're talking about Judo that was just an incident that came into mind. I understand as I've had big former Rugby guys and such only at it for a few months come in and throw me like a ragdoll. Not that I'm anything special, but in a scenario in experience size&strength just happened to be a factor.