There doesn't have to be blood to push the limits of a rating. In fact I think in TDK's case, blood would've been distracting to the real terror of the film, which was the antagonist and themes.

The Dark Knight was easily the most disturbing of all the motion picture Batman films. And it has ZERO to do with torture porn or gore, or blood.

It's the ideas, concepts presented by the material. The haunting cinematography, or chilling looks to the characters and the way they act. Joker's disturbing chelsea grin, Batman visibly torturing people, breaking their ankles, forearms ... or locking a clown in a cell and beating him senseless just to procure information ... illegally.

The ideas of the film are disturbing. The chaos beneath the surface. The allegory to the war on terror, and the post 9/11 anxieties we all face. Illegal wire tapping to survey citizens in order to smoke out "terrorists" ... it's all right there.

The movie is very bleak. Not to mention the imagery that while not overly graphic is the implied violence. The frightening scene when the Joker tortures the fake Batman. Nothing deliberate seen on screen, but it's the sounds, the screams and what's implied ... then a few scenes later he is hung from a building by a noose with a slashed Joker smile into his face. It's disturbing. Hell, they had to cut certain elements of the movie out. The Joker card on Brian Douglas body is held to his hockey padding with a pin in the final cut, it originally was held into his body with a knife.

TDK very much pushed the boundaries of the PG-13 rating. It's quite the haunting film. I mean pencils being shoved through skulls, knives being jammed into midsections, razor cut smiles ... hell, even the score of the Joker brings the anxiety to a maximum for the viewer.

My advice to you is to back away from the computer and watch the complete filmographies of Kubrick and Lynch. Also watch some Bergman, some Von Trier, some Bertolucci. Some Asian cinema. Hell, even some Coppola. Then see if you still think The Dark Knight is smart and sophisticated.

Don't do it. Watching those films is cool, but ultimately it could be a huge waste of time for you.

They are good, If you want them to be good, or if someone tells you they are good.

Just like with The Dark Knight, or any film for that matter.

Mister H. sounds like the resident movie snob, who has seen Kubrick films in slow motion and that one European movie where no one talks for 40 minutes and drinks coffee. think's his opinion is above the world.

The last film I saw was "A Separation" - and Iranian film about divorce, and it's consequences on a family.

It was subtitled too! - That must make me a movie snob too right?

Nope, I watched "Suburban Commando" a few hours before, because that movie is also good. Hulk Hogan is an alien bounty hunter and takes a vacation on Earth! In fact, Hulk Hogan is one of my favorite actors, right above Marelene Deitrich, a world-class actress.

Enjoy what you like, don't force it on others, no one wins that way.

Back to Batman, a man in a bat suit hitting people a night:

The Dark Knight broke tons of ground in cinema, A for it's box office, and B for it's complex storytelling for a silly character. The layers and layers of things Batman does in TDK are really compelling.

Nolan took Batman and made him real. He made a man in a batsuit, REAL.