Just happened to be listening to Catholic talk radio? Hmmm. Anyone spending two minutes researching the author of the piece quoted above will quickly deduce that he is indeed, "bat shit crazy", to repeat that rather unpleasant term.

However, the inference that Maheny's views are endorsed by the Catholic church, on "Catholic talk radio" is pure deception intended to demean an institution that our poster has repeatedly made clear he despises.

CoB, Thank you for your contribution. You have stated that you have issues with the Catholic church also. That is your right. However, I'm puzzled that you would leap once again to the defense of someone who's post was clearly intended to be inflammatory. Do you honestly believe that the views of Matheny represent those of the Catholic church or would be presented as such on "Catholic radio"?

mrgybe--again, you ignore the very specific information. I tuned into this radio station, which was indeed a Catholic radio station, and heard this woman berate Melinda Gates and her education efforts. I gave you her name and the time of the show. What she said was essentially the same as the Mark Meheny article, which she certainly must have used for her show. I had never heard of either of them before. I object, again, to your deciding that you know my motives, with a statement like:

Quote:

post was clearly intended to be inflammatory

I have objected to your unqualified support for the Catholic hierarchy, and in particular your silence on the actions of American bishops in covering up the crimes of pederast priests and sending them to new parishes where they could, and did, abuse children again. I cannot forgive the Catholic hierarchy that "sin"--when faced with a choice between protecting priests and children they threw the children under the bus. But that is the hierarchy, not the faith.

I am not sure who Barbara McGuigan is in the church system, nor do I care. She castigated Melinda Gates for supporting birth control--as a large majority of American Catholic women do. But she then conflated that with educational standards all the way to forced abortion. Her line of reasoning was directly from the article I posted.

It matters not at all whether the Catholic Church officially approves of this claptrap or not--I simply reported what she said. She apparently speaks on Catholic radio as an advocate for chastity. The conclusion that I draw from this is that even well intended reformers like the Gates will be subject to ad hominem attacks by nut cases from political fringes. It is a crazy world. You need not use that to feel defensive about the Catholic Church--but you might wonder why she is given a platform. She is a nut because she is a nut, not because she is a Catholic. It does, however, show how out of touch the Catholic hierarchy is with most American Catholics, particularly on issues of sexuality.

Now, KC and CB asked for a level of maturity in responses. I was chastened, and have tried to focus on the issues. I would echo their requests back to you.

I was raised Catholic, and liked a lot of things about the church. But there is a difference between faith, and bat-shit crazy.

On an "Education Reform" thread, out of the blue, you post the rambling diatribe of an an author you have never heard of, and have not researched. You link these wild views to those of the Catholic church and you want us to believe that you were simply reporting the facts! What was the purpose of introducing this article other than to inflame and gain a reaction? Given your long track record of attacks on Catholic bishops, priests and doctrine, it stretches credulity to believe that this was just innocent reportage designed to inform an audience hungry for information on this topic.

Incidentally, to set the record straight once again.........I have never expressed unqualified support for the Catholic hierarchy. That is another of your inventions. The actions of the Catholic priests in abusing children were absolutely disgraceful and warranted severe punishment............and the actions of Catholic bishops in covering for those crimes were reprehensible.

That is the first time I can remember where you expressed outrage about the Catholic bishop instead of support for their position on birth control. Belated but appropriate.

I began to listen to the radio show because it was specifically about the Gates Foundation's support for Federal standards in education--and education reform is the subject of this thread. Diane Ravitch, in her seminal book, established that 1) there are dramatically different educational standards and curricula in different states, making comparisons of success in different states virtually impossible, 2) research shows that harder curricula is the best way to improve the educational success of all students, not merely the gifted, and 3) she recounted her experience, and the controversy--and virtual impossibility of establishing, even as guidelines, tougher standards at the Federal level.

The talk show couldn't have been more on point. The host took off from Melinda Gates' support for higher education standards--and for birth control and vaccination--to attack them as a precursor to eugenics. It illustrates Ravitch's point that any Federal action on tougher educational standards brings out the worst in some people. Much of that comes from conservative Christians--from evangelical faiths, and apparently from Catholic groups as well. You are responsible for your own, rather defensive take on it. The facts are the facts.

By the way, while I am interested in the Gates foundation, that doesn't mean I support all of their ideas, or believe that they should have extraordinary power in reforming education. But reform ideas don't come from the hierarchy, they come from grass roots level and outside critics. The Gates foundation has funded some reform ideas that I think are very bad ideas, but they have the ability to try new educational ideas at a large enough scale to make them a valid experiment. I started this thread because Gates article showed that he has begun to understand that teachers are motivated in ways where market oriented reforms are unlikely to be as effective as he once thought. It shows the capacity to learn from experience. Interesting concept, and worth investigating, eh?

Gents... help me out. Maybe its the salt water saturating my pea sized brain from the RIDICULOUS spring we are having(72 ltr/3.7 combo used 11 times this season), but I'm confused. Who is bat shit crazy? Mac , or Matheny?

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