Thanks for the link, I hadn't heard that one.But, to the point, imo, Bobby Martin was one of FZ's utility tools. He wore many hats and wore them all well. He didn't wear any of them at a "can play anything" level along the lines of Keneally or Colaiuta. These are my own categories, so I am not expecting you to agree. There is a difference between Bobby Martin performing a part correctly as instructed and Vinnie playing a part as second nature.Tommy Mars was indeed and probably still is amazing. That doesn't put him at a Keneally or Colaiuta level either. Most all of FZ's band members were amazing in one way or another whether its the chops category or any other.

Ed - I am curious if you are going to address your original comment's reference to the arrangements of said synthesizers as they relate to the TTR recording. Is it just the equipment that you don't approve of? You sorta start to get into it with this post:

Ed Organus Maximus wrote:

Okay, Tommy Mars' keyboarding is highly reminiscent of what symphonic prog keyboardists did: quite often the likes of Wakeman and Tony Banks replicated the string arrangements with Mellotron. And when polyphonic synths arrived, prog keyboardists began to use these as well, however at that point, prog was already past the point of initial freshness and had become a bit bloated. Whenever I listen to Mars noodling on Electrocomp, I can't help but notice how this embodies the murkiest aspects of Tony Banks' synth arrangements circa Genesis' Wind & Wuthering/And Then There Were Three period, as well as what kind of sounds Keith Emerson got out of his synths around the same era (refer to ELP's rendition of "Fanfare for the Common Man")...

But, in talking about TTR, there isn't a ton of keyboard soloing. So, everything else of the above is based on determinations made by FZ. So, please clarify if this isn't correct: you don't like FZ's TTR arrangements AND you don't like Tommy Mars performance on TTR AND you don't like the keyboard equipment used on TTR.

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Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To

I'd say a keyboardist who could play "The Black Page," "Sinister Footwear," "Alien Orifice," "Envelopes" and "Little House I Used To Live In" (to name only five of the complicated instrumentals FZ's bands with Tommy played) is a "can play anything" keyboardist.

Well, RKay, I most certainly find the prominent synth tone shrill and hard to listen (but less than agreeable tone on the saxophone can also grate) and I'm also alienated by FZ' attitude against real horn players and thinking that science can save him from these "egotistical" soloing "bastards". A matter of principle I guess.

It appears he changed his mind enough by 1988, when he probably was no longer the strongest soloist in the group (I don't think he even touched the geetar for three years since Dec '84). So he had to concede some of the spotlight to Fowlers and the saxophonists. That Martin was a utility tool is right on the money. I think FZ was more open to the idea of using a sax in 1981 if its player was also a gifted enough singer and good enough pianist.

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Contradict? No, tangential evidence maybe. For me, when a player is that heavy on eyebrows, then it becomes a crutch in times when they could be putting more into it.However, your post doesn't stand on its own, so I didn't need to contradict it. How many people in this world could play those tunes if they were to spend the time to properly do so? Thousands at least? Probably many millions over the years. So, imo, the ability to play difficult pieces alone, while not being commonplace, is not definitional for "can play anything".

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Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To

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