in a lockout shorten season, when you are playing a ton of games, it doesn't hurt to have an experience NHL defense men as a bottom pairing, PP specialist. You are asking him to log 12 mins a night tops including PP time. If there is a season and we do make the playoffs i could even see bylmsa going with 11 fowards and 7 d and double shifting crosby/malkin. Also you can still play the young guy and give sarge a break.

considering we'd have roughly 10 mil in cap for a shortened season, i have no problem with it as long as we don't give up too much to get him.

Did you listen to his show? I did and he said just that. Saying if we don't trade one of our young D prospects for someone like Gonchar to win now that we are no different than the Pirates since there always thinking for the future and not the present.

I have zero problems trading someone like Morrow or Harrington for a defensemen that can help us now, but Gonch isn't that guy. Not anymore.

Funny Madden said this when a week ago someone called into his show asking should the Pens go after Gonch. Madden said "To do what? Work the concession stands?" But hey Madden wouldn't be Madden if he didn't contradict himself.

That Montreal series clip where Gonch just completely phoned it in still haunts me... I suppose it's worth looking into and seeing what he can do for what price though. He does have a steadying influence when he's there.

littlemoonboot wrote:That Montreal series clip where Gonch just completely phoned it in still haunts me... I suppose it's worth looking into and seeing what he can do for what price though. He does have a steadying influence when he's there.

I don't buy it. The sentimental part of me loves Sarge and misses him, but I don't believe it will happen. It is tempting, especially since Sullivan has departed, and Gonch could replace what Sullivan gave us on the PP and then some. However, what the Pens lack is physicality on the back end, and Sarge does nothing to help that cause. Also, when Michalek was dealt, Ray Shero said it was time to let the young guys play. You don't make room for the young guys by signing a 38 year old veteran.

I think the Pens go with 4 forwards on the PP again and play the umbrella with Letang at the top, Malkin and Crosby to either side (able to rotate to either half wall) and Neal with one of Kunitz or Tangradi down low. Basically Sid takes Sullivan's place. They tried that when Sid came back, but there wasn't enough time to get it clicking, so Sullivan went back. Now they will make it work. The second unit can have Niskanen and Despres on it with Sutter, Kunitz/Tangradi and either Dupuis or Kennedy, or Bennett if he makes the big team.

The only value Gonch has anymore is on the PP, and I think we have enough without him. I'd rather have a Hal Gill type.

55 still has value as a bottom pair, power play guy. You ideally don't pay $5.5M for that though, even if you do have boatloads of cap space. I would still pass regardless, as I think the coaching staff would end up playing him too much, and that wouldn't work out well for anyone except the opposition.

littlemoonboot wrote:That Montreal series clip where Gonch just completely phoned it in still haunts me... I suppose it's worth looking into and seeing what he can do for what price though. He does have a steadying influence when he's there.

lmb... wow... glad to see that yer still alive

I avoided everything LGP/hockey more or less because it depressed me. But I'm glad to be back!

Sarcastic wrote:Did anyone watch Gonchar during last year on the Sens much? If yes, how did he look?

Not so hot...good in transition as always, but closer to the Montreal series than the 2008 version...he got babysit a bit by Chris Phillips too, so that helped the defense and the physicality of the pairing. But that would be a lot of responsibility for Orpik who has never been a babysitter as I recall. He was paired with Gonchar, sure, but it was mildly competent Gonchar so it wasn't a full-time job...

I can't see how he would be worse defensively than Martin. His point total from last season was pretty good, too. Same ice time as Martin and only -4 on a worse team. Actually, nevermind. Maybe we can trade Martin for a younger guy (than Gonchar). I know, I know. This could be a fresh start for Martin. Yeah, pardon me, but I won't hold my breath.

Last edited by Sarcastic on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sarcastic wrote:I can't see how he would be worse defensively than Martin. His point total from last season was pretty good, too. Same ice time as Martin and only -4 on a worse team. Actually, nevermind. Maybe we can trade Martin for a younger guy. I know, I know. This could be a fresh start for Martin. Yeah, pardon me, but I won't hold my breath.

Is he really? I mean, I don't want to start a hate Martin thing here. I just have given him too many chances. He'll go through good period, then... well, you know. Get out-pushed in front of his own net again. I'll stop here and we'll see how he does when they start playing.

Buying him out wouldn't help us this year, these compliance buyouts aren't til next year (if only we had signatures, that would go in it because I have feeling this'll be repeated a ton). Also, yes, Gonchar is worse defensively.

Also, we have to consider the other team in this (which rarely takes place in these trade scenarios). Ottawa's defense will be what...

Methot-KarlssonPhillips-GoncharWeircioch-Boro

Mike Lundin is hurt, Jared Cowen is out for the year...remove Gonchar from that group and - this might sound familiar - they have 3 rookies in their top 6 on the blueline. Now, factor in tactics. The Senators run their offense through their defense. Everything goes backwards and then they come up with numbers. Transition d-men are valuable to them, Karlsson's Norris and ridiculous point totals last year are a testament to that. Gonchar remains valuable on that front. Methot and Phillips both handle the puck below average and the two rookies I have there aren't a whole lot different than our fringe prospects (like in the Brian Strait atmosphere).

I'm not sure the Senators can really pull this off right now. Maybe if Lundin and Cowen were available, but I see them auditioning a defenseman at camp WITH Gonchar...can't imagine without him...they'd need some assurances of another trade or signing somewhere...

(Wow, it felt like I haven't made a post like this in forever...felt good.)