i see that melee infantry is a little underused (except pikeman/halberd) one of the reasons can be that they are slow, so need wagons, and why would i use infantry if i can use knights in wagons instead.

That's a big change.
It can be good or bad...
Adv:more players use units(except cavalry units)so more straregy may appear.
Stronger in melee infantry.
Disadv:Cavalry more difficult to defence/assault because of losing mobility.
Little stronger in (archer/siege units)

Dan301002 wrote:Not like i ever used the cavalry on wagon anyway, and they already had high mobility, why would they need to be in wagons. For some player it may be a bad thing.

It is valid way. Especially on bigger maps the speed with which you can deliver reinforcements to the front line can be very important. So why not to speed up cavalry if you have a space in your wagons? And if you don't have space you better get more wagons soon.

tamtam12345 wrote:I always use this skill to attack/Defence.When enemy is faster than me to get a town,I always use wagon to carry cavalry(eg .Mongol horseman and lancer) to shoot light cal.It always success.

I expect more players will use archer unit and siege unit because it is hard and not worth to use more Knights for exchanging.

Maybe add a effect?Movement of cavalry units -1 in that turn when it comes out from the wagon?

Still quite not solve it really.
Just make wagons unusable with cavalry like battering rams. Realistically speaking wagons are carried by horses, cavalry coming out from wagons are terrifying (?) in real life, especially in Medieval Era.

Actually I don't support because for me sometimes putting cavalry in wagon is extremely useful in defending cause I can easily reach far away sieges that are protected by pikes, even if my knights die if I can destroy the sieges in one turn its totally worth it so please don't implement this idea... It will be near impossible for come back without cavalry wagon combo

There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

I think the main problem GodofKings, inmo, is the MASSIVE range that a wagon+hussar/knight combo can reach.

On maps such as 25x25, such a combo can get halfway across the map in a single turn. This makes it very hard to make strategic maneuvers that have any significant impact, especially if it is a mostly land map. It is disappointing to spend 5 turns planning a surprise attack on a far away tc that could change the game if it catches your opponent off guard, only to have him/her come flying in with some spare wagons and cavalry to meet it the next turn. It sort of takes away from the element of strategy and out-planning your opponent when everything can be countered so easily/quickly, and eventually many games come down to "who can wagon-knight spam the hardest/fastest."

Wagons would still be extremely useful and even mandatory for most playstyles, as they would still carry around siege weapons and infantry, both of which have painfully slow move, especially on larger maps.

Just my two cents on why this should be implemented. Fixing mending ships fixed ship-spamming, so I don't see why fixing wagons wouldn't fix wagoknight spamming

The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution.

But then how do u propose destroying opponent sieges without using Ur siege it is impossible for knight to reach a siege without the siege atking it first and pikes can kill knights in one hit late game

There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

And also if an opponent can't counter a knight-wagon combo and watches his surprise attack get foiled then it is the opponents' fault for not considering the possibility of such a attack . y should such a beautiful strategy get the punishment instead?

There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

But srsly maybe we should remove cats and trebs from wagons and give them 2 speed, but thats a whole different topic, and make horse units unable to enter wagons to prevent "surprise m***********" combo

So i pretty much agree with you, i dont, however, think others do, as this would mean they will lose their most used strategies

Actually, I sort of take back what I said. But not entirely. What I said is far too often true in large games (40x40+ maps in my experience), but in smaller maps I admit I have rarely seen much spamming of any type.

However, on large maps, spamming of any type can be a problem lol. I suppose that is why we now have pop limits though, which probably would be a remedy, I just have yet to play a large map on a small pop limit.

The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution.

Okay but in that case I read in another thread about the idea of packing sieges to give them 4 speed kind of like the way rangers transform, if that idea is implemented and sieges (except rams and cannons) are banned from wagons I wouldn't mind if mounts are also banned. The game would probably be more slow paced as there would be less chance for surprise attack but at least other infrantry- wagon combo might find itself in the list of conventional strategies

There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

Cavalry units AREN'T made to be transported via wagon.
Their long range is made so they can charge the enemy's front line, and they already have bonuses against everything EXCEPT buildings and pikemen.
While I do see the use of putting cavalry in the wagons, the wagons themselves were made for transporting your army towards the front line, to reinforce your position against the enemy, not to throw more mounted units at it. If you manage to get a team of workers going, you can produce wagons nearly every turn, which would allow you to keep up with the 2 turn spawning times of the basic infantry units.

Without me being here for a long time to explain why its more reasonable for the wagons to be used for INFANTRY, i'm gonna sum it up with a sentence.

Mounted units are very big, imagine putting 3 of them in a wagon made for only three people.

Also,

godOfKings wrote:Okay but in that case I read in another thread about the idea of packing sieges to give them 4 speed kind of like the way rangers transform, if that idea is implemented and sieges (except rams and cannons) are banned from wagons

This. It's very similar to the mounted unit wagon combo, except that instead of just making quick work of infantry, it demolishes structures as well.
Personally, I use the war machine wagon combo, and it's really OP in my opinion.

I think both mounted units, and war machines be banned from, or at least be limited in wagons. (1 war machine/1 mounted unit)

The bonuses against pikemen and halberds do exist, but would you really want to have a knight attack their main counter?
Even with the bonus against both of them, after running a quick test, only heavy knights are able to 1 shot pikemen. That doesn't include halberdiers. And even then, regular knights survive a counter attack with only 1 hp (12 against pikeman), while heavy knights survive a halberdier counter attack with only 8 hp.

godOfKings wrote:Mikeyhud U didn't have to make such a long post just to repeat wat I said and I didn't quite understand wat lordofales meant who have bonus against pikeman?

I was agreeing with you by saying that war machines shouldn't be allowed in wagons... Or at least agreeing with the idea you had. Also, Ales is talking about the mounted unit's bonus damage against infantry, which pikemen and halberdiers are. Also long posts because i'm trying to make more than one point.

To sum it up, nerf mounted units in wagons, and nerf war machines in wagons. Their main counter, spear units, are going to be the only infantry anyone even bothers to produce if mounted-wagons aren't nerfed.

when I played age of strategy just before, I saw that the elephant and elephant archer could enter the inside of the siege tower. I think that's wrong, one type of cavalry unit should not be able to enter a movable unit garrison.