Personally I think it should be a VERY general statement. "Be awesome to eachother" or something like it. And then we can expand on it, like we do on Rule0 on the wiki.Riiiis (talk) 17:36, 26 May 2014 (CEST)

I agree with Riiiis that we should talk about this! I am very happy that he and most members agree on having a safe space policy. I think it is crucial for Labitat's well being and survival. I do think, however, that we should define it a bit more than he is suggesting.I think we will run into problems where popular offenders stock the decision meeting with their supporters to attack and shout down complainants if we do not have more clear guidelines. I think we should do what our founder Marc Juul's new space sudoroom.org has done and adopt this definition "A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed, without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental ability; a place where the rules guard each person's self-respect and dignity and strongly encourage everyone to respect others." from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space as a guideline. Further, I would be very happy to see Labitat state something like "Value safe space over ideology." as sudoroom does in its articles of association. https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association I also think that we can benefit from defining some behaviors that are so severely in violation of safe space that they deserve expulsion. I think we can say safely "if you attempt to murder another member, you are not welcome back" and then start from there.Jkotila (talk) 18:03, 27 May 2014 (CEST)

If you try to murder a member of Labitat it's a police case... !! ! It's not up to Labitat Thursday meeting to decide if and when the Danish law was and is broken or to judge IF and so a person is doing a criminal act. Leave that for the Cops.--MEKBOY78

If you accuse somebody for doing physical or sexual harrasement or doing something criminal,that is also a case for the danish police. If this is a False statment this is so that these things can be considered by law "straffeloven" §267 to be "injurie in latin". In DK we dont have the concept felonies or misdemeanors in our law. It gives the person up to four months behind bars to spread false rumors about other persons.MEKBOY78

If people in Labitat have a true problem with another member. Please inform the member that he is on trial on a Thursday meeting before you judge the person according to danish law ( Acting as a LAbitat-Judge and Labitat-Police ) so that this person whom under charge for something has a true chance to defend himself and be present at the meeting.The world is full of enough cowards and wankers.MEKBOY78

To state that in Labitat there is ONLY one. Only 1 rule. And thats RULE 0. Thats a wrong and a false statement. Labitat is under the rule of Danish LAW. And all persons inside LABITAT are under the danish LAWS.MEKBOY78

I think that a SAFE SPACE policy is waste of time - We have never had physical fighting in space. And we have never had Treats directly between members in space. If so that these ever pop up. We have the Danish Law system to take care of these things. On the other hand I think that we should indeed have a place to go with our grudges with issues whom does not belong on a thursday meeting. How do you define a popular offender? Easy to sit down and talk about rights of the indvidual and then just act like a cowboy in terms of morale and ethics way and not behave well your self. A general discussion about values and etics and morale seems to fit. MEKBOY78

Most organizations generally have policies about how their members should behave. Most of the time cases of harassment are resolved within an organization and not brought to the police. Again, Labitat is "inherently anarchistic" and bringing matters directly to the police would be very contrary to its spirit. https://labitat.dk/wiki/Organizational_structureJkotila (talk)

I think these are all good points we should discuss. I would like to remind people that if you write things on the agenda shortly before the meeting you can't reasonably expect everyone to have read them though. Semi (talk)

ChristianBillP: Other organisations do not do pre-testing

Semi: We should look at what kind of institution or role we want to implement. I have been looking into sudoroom, and they have extensive guidelines, so why not build on this.

Semi: we should have a group of "trustees" ( an institution or group) that will establish what guidelines it works based on. It should be based on Labitat's values and be subject to approval from the thursday meeting.

Semi: Thursday meetings and general mailing lists should not take care of very personal issues.

Frank: how transparent should this organisation be? That is something to be considered as well.

Semi: the group shouldn't be required to share minutes about meetings, but will report to the thursday meeting about what's going on. It should be expected that things discussed in the group are kept confidential.

Frank: I agree.

k2raveler: Safe-space as an example of what Rule0 covers should be enough - we don't need a wall of policies (to make up for not calling them rules and thus breaking rule0)

Riiiis: (Reading from the chat)

Decision: We will continue with setting up a group. Is similar to a trustee system. The group will present a more detailed proposal as soon as possible.

Who wants to be member of the group? Semi, MrAlvin, Kuro, (others are encouraged to join) We will continue to invite more people into the group, so we can ensure diversity.

It should be emphasized that a person taking contact to the group can contact the members individually and require that the group meets up without a certain member if that person is part of a conflict.

Who can you contact when the thursdaysmeeting isn't the right place

This I feel is also a point we all agree would be a good thing for Labitat to implement. we should talk about that. Riiiis (talk) 17:36, 26 May 2014 (CEST)

I also agree with Riiiis on this. I think we can avoid a lot of problems if we set up a trustee system wherein there are trusted people that you can go to with concerns and complaints before they go out of hand and when the Thursday meeting is clearly the wrong venue to handle them in. Basically, we need to create the equivalent to an human resources representative or a union rep but in a Labitat style. I think that there should be many people on this list so that all users can pick someone they feel comfortable with and so that no one person shoulders too much responsibility OR power.Jkotila (talk) 18:07, 27 May 2014 (CEST)

Decision: We skipped this point, since it was included in the last point.

Cleaning without a notification about general cleaning on Discuss

Should there be a warning on discuss before a general cleaning.. ?

On Thursdays there is a general cleanup after every meeting (stated on the Thursday meeting wiki page) so it should be assumed that every Thursday has a cleanup session, whether announced or not. We should decide whether or not we want to keep this practice or if all cleanups need to be announced. christianbillp

After Thursday Meeting there is a fast clean up. Not such a big clean up as which was done last week in space. There should be a general message out to people so they have a chance to be sure that project gear or other stuff is kept safe and not put in front of main acces door by a mistake.MEKBOY78

Compliments to the people which have cleaned up the space - A big job done by heroes of space! ! I salute thee..! ! --MEKBOY78

Last thursday it turned out that people simply continued to clean. FYI: everything moved, is located in the big green box. No named boxes have been cleaned, but may have been put on a shelf.

Space for expensive equipment

Should we have a dedicated area where expensive equipment can be kept safe? christianbillp

We have that in Room number 3 and in room number 4 ( TronLab ) and we have never had problems with people putting exepensive equipment out in reach of the main entrance before.So NO need to have that MEKBOY78

And normally when there is a name on gear and furthermore a space track tag on the gear. Then you know that it's good gear. --MEKBOY78

Riiis: Personal expensive stuff shouldn't be in the space if you can't afford to loose it. No locked boxes.

Kuro: A method of "hiding stuff" is however being practiced today.

MrAlvin: I like the idea of having options for "locked" boxes, preferably electronic locks.

Zapro: it is not to make physical imposibility to get access, it is a possiblity to increase level of responsibility

Semi: It has a value for Labitat that people feel safe lending out expensive equipment. Locks shouldn't be seen as a need to keep the access exclusive, but rather the need from people who are providing the tools to also be able to ensure that people who use the tools have received instructions on how to care for it.

Zapro: we need some way

Decision: Zapro, MrAlvin, ChB. make an implementation test.

Individual storage space

Do we need to set a limit on how much space every individual member has available? christianbillp

It's already set. You can have a project box with stuff to your project and then you can have a yellow box in room 4 --MEKBOY78

Decision: We do what we have done for a very long time. Currently you can have a yellow box. You can also have one clear box.
For short time projects, you can have more storage (which MUST be named). Everyone can take on the role of asking people why they are using more space, and remind them that they should try to limit their space use.

Dedicated space for infrastructure projects

Should we have dedicated space for infrastructure projects and equipment so members working on these dont need to use personal storage space? (For clarification: this means projects which were announced and approved) christianbillp

That would be awsome! Im fed up of having alot of CNC2 parts and TIG JIG parts in my private box yellow and big transparant in room MEKBOY78

Decision: As has been practiced for some time. Infra structure / Labitat projects will usually need 48-hour rule or thursdaymeeting funding. Please include creating shelves or project boxes, or at least set a label on it. Otherwise it is impossible for the cleaners to know what to do whit stuff they find.

Locks on stuff

We should decide when its okay to put locks and chains on boxes, equipment etc. christianbillp

It should be OKAY to chain gear and put a lock on so that rookies(noobs in space) dont put out expensive gear from etc Tronlab or room 3 at the main entrance.MEKBOY78

There is a project locker in dirty room for " Grease Box Awsome Project " And those doing mechanical projects and there is oil and grease for the projects. It's oil sponsered by private people which participate in these projects. Thats why it's locked. --MEKBOY78

Yes you are, but please still do it respectfully, and so it is easy to include new people and existing members of labitat. --MrAlvin

Please make the wiki page more friendly. It is not appropriate to use words like "donate or die"

Semi: there should be a note on any lock, explaining why it is there, and who to contact if you want the locked opened/removed.

Mushbie: You may put a lock on your yellow/personal box. You should not have personally locked boxes other places than yellow boxes and personal boxes.

Also see "Space for expensive equipment" issue where common boxes are

Decision: You may put a lock on your yellow/personal box. You should not have personally locked boxes other places than yellow boxes and personal boxes. Locks are not usually needed in Labitat, but it is okay to put note and otehr signal on stuff, so people are reminded to be extra respectful.

Dining club

Food lab has been cleaned and is ready for a weekly dining club? Is anyone interested? christianbillp

Best days are monday, wednesday, friday or some thursdays or some tuesdays.

Before CC wrote an email saying: tonight I will be making food.People responed, and final sign up happened on a note in Labitat.

We can set up tools so it is easy to keep some level of tabs on the turnaround for the dining club.

More biology and electronics/mechanical/programming synergy

In some ways it feels more like Biologigaragen and the rest of Labitat operate like two separate organizations. Is anyone interested in trying to encourage more collaboration? christianbillp

maybe we are not using the synergy of shared space.

urban gardening for spices for dining club and biologigaragen could be a joint activity.

some 3D prints and electronics has been done, so please continue doing that

Evt. (other-business)

FIRE SAFETY

Who is responsible for the Fire Safety gear?

Zapro is responsible.

[KONTROL] of gear working or not?.

Ask Zapro

Do we have a safety group or a safety spaceman? --MEKBOY78 - not yet. Generally we have not needed it.

If you see something unsafe or somewhat dangerous happening, please speak up. And ask for a safety statement.

if you're using a potential dangerous tool, you should keep watch over it and keep others safe around it. We can use all our time adding safety equipment.