How to debunk: "The universe itself is my proof... it wouldn't be here without God" - Think Atheist2016-12-10T03:12:54Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/how-to-debunk-the-universe-itself-is-my-proof-it-wouldn-t-be-here?xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noTOTALLY OFF-TOPIC DEPT:
"Thou…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-17:1982180:Comment:10581572012-02-17T20:05:09.485Zarchaeopteryxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/xn/detail/u_2gskiyna07rt3
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC DEPT</span>:</strong></p>
<p><strong>"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." <br></br> Exodus 22:17</strong></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Nepal villagers burn 'witchcraft' suspect alive</strong><br></br>A mob burned alive a 40-year-old woman on Friday after accusing her of casting black magic spells in a remote village in southern Nepal, police said.<br></br>Dengani Mahato died after she was…</p>
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<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC DEPT</span>:</strong></p>
<p><strong>"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." <br/> Exodus 22:17</strong></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Nepal villagers burn 'witchcraft' suspect alive</strong><br/>A mob burned alive a 40-year-old woman on Friday after accusing her of casting black magic spells in a remote village in southern Nepal, police said.<br/>Dengani Mahato died after she was severely beaten, doused in kerosene and set alight for allegedly practising witchcraft, Gopal Bhandari, a superintendent of police in Chitwan district, told AFP.<br/>"Nine people started to beat her after a local shaman pointed the finger at her over the death of a boy a year ago," the officer said.</p>
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<p style="text-align: center;">"Gods don't kill people. People with gods kill people."<br/>-- David Viaene --<br/><br/></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><strong>pax vobiscum,</strong><br/><strong>archaeopteryx</strong><br/><a href="http://www.in-His-own-image.com" target="_blank">www.in-His-own-image.com</a></p> Just say, "WHY DON'T YOU TRY…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-16:1982180:Comment:10570762012-02-16T17:21:35.986ZAbraham Fungus Jrhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/AbrahamFungusJr
<p>Just say, "WHY DON'T YOU TRY THAT ARGUMENT WITH STEPHEN HAWKING, DUMBO!" and walk away. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also see: <a href="http://www.jimmyfungus.com/2012/02/does-god-exist-mysteries-of-universe.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.jimmyfungus.com/2012/02/does-god-exist-mysteries-of-univ...</a></p>
<p>Just say, "WHY DON'T YOU TRY THAT ARGUMENT WITH STEPHEN HAWKING, DUMBO!" and walk away. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also see: <a href="http://www.jimmyfungus.com/2012/02/does-god-exist-mysteries-of-universe.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.jimmyfungus.com/2012/02/does-god-exist-mysteries-of-univ...</a></p> I think that's because this c…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-15:1982180:Comment:10569272012-02-15T22:18:08.403ZAlex Smithhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/AlexanderPSmith
<p>I think that's because this concept is one of those things that if you actually take the time to think about, makes a lot of sense. Just like many of us on this site feel that believing in a God is silly for our own different reasons, we might come to similar conclusions about the concept and existence of a divine entity.<br></br><br></br>However, ask a theist why they believe and they will most probably give you some response that has been drilled into their head by years of religion and parenting.…</p>
<p>I think that's because this concept is one of those things that if you actually take the time to think about, makes a lot of sense. Just like many of us on this site feel that believing in a God is silly for our own different reasons, we might come to similar conclusions about the concept and existence of a divine entity.<br/><br/>However, ask a theist why they believe and they will most probably give you some response that has been drilled into their head by years of religion and parenting. This thread, in and of itself is an example of this refusal to think about why: why there may or may not be a god, why we're here, or why any of this actually matters.<br/><br/>A theist says the universe is their evidence that god exists because they've been taught that god made the universe. So the universe being here means there is a god, somewhere. This is very silly, because they never proved that god made the universe in the first place.<br/><br/>We ARE here, in this universe, and if we like it or not, there is no god actively among us. We work for our own means, we do what we must to survive and we do what is good, because it is the right thing to do. Not because some entity is telling us to, or else.<br/><br/>Maybe, by some minute chance, there is a god somewhere, and maybe one day he will come to claim us for paradise, or to destroy us, or separate the "good" from the "bad." This is totally irrelevant to anything we should actually be worrying about in our lives. If it comes, that'll be great, or terrible, whichever, but until it (doesn't) come, I will continue to life my life how I see fit.</p> I once read in a book when I…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-15:1982180:Comment:10567722012-02-15T21:46:33.025ZRob Klaershttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/RobKlaers
<p>I once read in a book when I was a child that when you hear thunder it's really a group of older men playing 9-pin in the mountain tops and if you drink from their liquor keg you'll sleep for 20 years. It must be true since a book told me...</p>
<p>I once read in a book when I was a child that when you hear thunder it's really a group of older men playing 9-pin in the mountain tops and if you drink from their liquor keg you'll sleep for 20 years. It must be true since a book told me...</p> It's obvious you've never of…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-15:1982180:Comment:10567702012-02-15T21:36:41.461ZRob Klaershttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/RobKlaers
<p>It's obvious you've never of James Randi or Harry Houdini, then... </p>
<p>It's obvious you've never of James Randi or Harry Houdini, then... </p> There are indeed many schools…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-15:1982180:Comment:10566782012-02-15T18:58:20.416ZAbraham Fungus Jrhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/AbrahamFungusJr
<p>There are indeed many schools of thought on this... and there are many great thinkers who have weighed in...and given forth their opinions... some of them are assembled in this article which is truly outstanding <a href="http://www.jimmyfungus.com/2012/02/does-god-exist-mysteries-of-universe.html" target="_blank">Does God Exist? Mysteries of the Universe Unraveled</a> .... to get opinions from all vantage points... all walks of life...</p>
<p>There are indeed many schools of thought on this... and there are many great thinkers who have weighed in...and given forth their opinions... some of them are assembled in this article which is truly outstanding <a href="http://www.jimmyfungus.com/2012/02/does-god-exist-mysteries-of-universe.html" target="_blank">Does God Exist? Mysteries of the Universe Unraveled</a> .... to get opinions from all vantage points... all walks of life...</p> Interestingly Alexander, poss…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-15:1982180:Comment:10565882012-02-15T17:37:17.416Zarchaeopteryxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/xn/detail/u_2gskiyna07rt3
<p>Interestingly Alexander, possibly without even knowing it, you've almost perfectly paraphrased, in your own words, those of the Philosopher Emperor, Marcus Aurelius, who said:</p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: left;">"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will…</p>
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<p>Interestingly Alexander, possibly without even knowing it, you've almost perfectly paraphrased, in your own words, those of the Philosopher Emperor, Marcus Aurelius, who said:</p>
<blockquote><p style="text-align: left;">"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."</p>
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<p style="text-align: center;">-- Marcus Aurelius --</p>
<p><strong>pax vobiscum,</strong><br/><strong>archaeopteryx</strong><br/><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.in-His-own-image.com" target="_blank">www.in-His-own-image.com</a></p> I don't think we're saying gr…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-15:1982180:Comment:10568072012-02-15T16:42:54.120ZAlex Smithhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/AlexanderPSmith
<p>I don't think we're saying gravity created the universe. Actually, the universe was never created. It's pretty hard to wrap one's head around it, but time flows indefinitely forwards and backwards. The Big Bang wasn't the creation of the universe, it was an expansion of a single point, a single point that contained all of the matter of the universe, and (as far as we know) had existed forever. That point began expanding and the universe was created from it as it took up more and more space,…</p>
<p>I don't think we're saying gravity created the universe. Actually, the universe was never created. It's pretty hard to wrap one's head around it, but time flows indefinitely forwards and backwards. The Big Bang wasn't the creation of the universe, it was an expansion of a single point, a single point that contained all of the matter of the universe, and (as far as we know) had existed forever. That point began expanding and the universe was created from it as it took up more and more space, and the matter it contained was allowed room to react and form systems like atoms, and molecules, and eventually, stars and galaxies.<br/><br/>In the hearts of stars, a lot of elements needed for life are created. Chief among them is Carbon because all living things on Earth are made of it. All the Carbon there is comes from these stars and without them humans and life never would have started on earth. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and the Big Bang happened 13.9 years ago. This means that, at most, it took 9.4 billion years of stars generating Carbon, then super novaing to spread this Carbon across the universe, which then formed together to form our planet, and others, with the other elements from stars, before our lovely home in space came to be.<br/><br/>So, again, it was not gravity that created the universe, because that's just silly. The universe was never created, it has merely existed forever, and shall exist forever more. Perhaps, one day, our universe shall reach the point of complete entropy and shall no longer contain matter as we know it, but we humans will have had a good long run by that time.<br/><br/>Disproving God is extremely difficult because there's no proof that he does exist. God is not "falsifiable," which basically means we can't prove him false, but because of that we can't prove him to be truly here, either.<br/><br/> Nonetheless, I don't really care to believe in a god because, what's the point? Believing in gods means you don't take as much responsibility for things yourself because you think they will take care of it for you. And for the things you have to do to "get into heaven" or avoid hell are the things human beings should be doing anyway. The fact that religious people, who believe in an afterlife or paradise, think that they HAVE to do good things for their own eternal pleasure later on, is entirely selfish and, in my eyes, immoral. Why should I be good for my own happiness, when I can be good for the sake of the world's happiness. I personally want to be a force for good in the world, and I don't have a heaven that I feel I'm going to get into.<br/><br/>In the end, if by some odd, obscure chance there IS a god out there somewhere, and he does return mortal favours of good behaviour with some kind of paradise, then how could that god, or gods, EVER turn away people such as myself, who do good for goods sake, for people's sake, and for the world's sake. Unless those gods are not benevolent, in which case, why would I ever choose to worship a religion that followed entities that don't care how good the world is.<br/><br/>I know I will not change your mind about God, and really, I don't intend to. You can have your beliefs. Just please know, you aren't changing ours either, especially with such weak arguments as you've used here. If you don't think you can provide an argument on par with my own, or those of others here, please, do yourself, and us, a favour and please stop trolling us. If you're here to learn, ask us questions. But don't be cynical. For we might answer in kind.<br/><br/>I am an atheist, and I am proud.</p> Robert --
Have you seen Kraus…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-14:1982180:Comment:10559642012-02-14T22:10:50.058Zarchaeopteryxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/xn/detail/u_2gskiyna07rt3
<p>Robert --</p>
<p>Have you seen Krause's video? A good watch - <a href="http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/09/10076985-how-to-get-a-cosmos-from-nothing" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span class="yiv2113406371yshortcuts" id="yiv2113406371lw_1326834037_0">http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/09/10076985-how-to-get-a-cosmos-from-nothing</span></a></p>
<p><strong>pax vobiscum,</strong><br></br><strong>archaeopteryx…</strong><br></br></p>
<p>Robert --</p>
<p>Have you seen Krause's video? A good watch - <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/09/10076985-how-to-get-a-cosmos-from-nothing"><span class="yiv2113406371yshortcuts" id="yiv2113406371lw_1326834037_0">http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/09/10076985-how-to-get-a-cosmos-from-nothing</span></a></p>
<p><strong>pax vobiscum,</strong><br/><strong>archaeopteryx</strong><br/><a href="http://www.in-His-own-image.com" target="_blank">www.in-His-own-image.com</a></p> So far I'm liking Universe Fr…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2012-02-14:1982180:Comment:10562432012-02-14T21:25:20.046ZRobert Bumbaloughhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/RobertBumbalough
<p>So far I'm liking Universe From Nothing. The first three chapters are a review of the history of modern cosmology, development of relativity and quantum physics. Krause is a good writer who makes these otherwise esoteric subjects accessible to lay persons.</p>
<p>So far I'm liking Universe From Nothing. The first three chapters are a review of the history of modern cosmology, development of relativity and quantum physics. Krause is a good writer who makes these otherwise esoteric subjects accessible to lay persons.</p>