Bioshock wrote:Why are we considering firing the coach? I know Bylsma has his flaws but he's a pretty darn good coach IMO.

Because many think that this team is unlikely to win the Cup. That's it. There is no other goal for this team with 87/71 in their mid-20s. Not, "we can make a run", not" we're in the mix" -- we have to win and win now. If there is any doubt over the coaching staff's ability to make that happen, then you make a change. There's been enough in the last playoff series and so far this season that indicates it should be under discussion.

So who do you replace him with that would be better for the task at hand?

A lot of people like Lindy Ruff. I don't know how that work here frankly. I don't know enough about potential candidates compared to other people to be honest. But just because I can't identify a suitable replacement and lack the knowledge to do so, doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.

Lindy Ruff never really had any superstars to coach. Not all guys can coach a Crosby and a Malkin. I'm not saying Ruff can't.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

Maybe it's both. I'm also curious about the Pro Byslma crowd's reasons for keeping Byslma. And not the, "it's only one game!" or "they are 2nd in the conference!" it seems that the people who want to keep Byslma are doing it blindly without reason.

Bioshock wrote:Why are we considering firing the coach? I know Bylsma has his flaws but he's a pretty darn good coach IMO.

Because many think that this team is unlikely to win the Cup. That's it. There is no other goal for this team with 87/71 in their mid-20s. Not, "we can make a run", not" we're in the mix" -- we have to win and win now. If there is any doubt over the coaching staff's ability to make that happen, then you make a change. There's been enough in the last playoff series and so far this season that indicates it should be under discussion.

So who do you replace him with that would be better for the task at hand?

A lot of people like Lindy Ruff. I don't know how that work here frankly. I don't know enough about potential candidates compared to other people to be honest. But just because I can't identify a suitable replacement and lack the knowledge to do so, doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.

Lindy Ruff never really had any superstars to coach. Not all guys can coach a Crosby and a Malkin. I'm not saying Ruff can't.

I'm not either. I don't know how we would do. But he's respected, and a new voice in the room with the experience he has may address some of the composure/discipline issues.

Sometimes a coach's style can be more important than pure X and O. When MT got fired, it seemed like they had tired of his personality (aggressive, red-ass) and his coaching (stressing discipline and structure above creativity and offensive aggression). Bylsma came in with a very different, more player-friendly personality and meshed his own strategic preference that allowed for a more open game that the team's creative players liked more. Right place, right time.

Maybe the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. Ruff doesn't strike me as similar to Therrien in terms of personality, and his guys seemed to really like him (most of the Sabres went out of their way to say how they really regretted their performance getting him canned), but I do think he'd have some things to say about the way the team is playing defensively. Maybe he's the right guy if they make a change, don't really know.

Last edited by slappybrown on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

DudeMan2766 wrote:YOu arent sure why? Its because you, among others have been throwing out this 2ND IN THE CONFERENCE!!! like its set in stone for the rest of the year. Do you not expect any teams below us to improve in the second half of the season? And do you expect the Pens given the way they are playing to keep their apparent stranglehold on 2nd in the conference for another 2 months? I just dont get why their standing 6 weeks into the season is any indication of how they are playing right now.

Especially since our record right now indicates we are 4th in the conference and % wise are actually 2nd in our division 5th in the conference.

The 2nd place in the conference is a bad comment because its not actually true at all and it has no indication of how we are playing and how we have played.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

I don't know if i'd say he is not competent, but I think he below average as a professional coach. I don't think he has lost the team, I think the only discipline they ever had was from Therrien and it has just been gradually disappearing since Bylsma took over.

Last edited by Idoit40fans on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't post on these boards that much even though I have been here for a long time but threads like this I approve of so...

- Both the Florida loss and the Carolina loss were terrible to see but there are good things to take away, both losses looked very different.- The pens worked on the PK and on clearing pucks out of the zone, both looked WAY better than before, the PK was very good and there were less dumb penalties.- In general pucks were cleared much more decisively and there were less giveaways in the D zone due to blind passes.- Lack of determination in front of the goal and loss of coverage on key opposition players keeps resulting in bad goals.- The pens played with a lack of discipline and will. This is not new. Every team has losing streaks over a season, and this is the kind of play we see from the pens every time they are playing bad. They go into an arena and think that because they have talent they can just go through the game without doing the little things. No coach change, no small personnel change is going to fix this, they did this back in 08 and they do it now. That does not mean that they don't need to work on fixing that to get out of this, but it also means that there is no point in firing everyone and moving the team to Hawaii over it.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

He's got his limitations but he's a more than competent coach. Once he's done here he's going to get snatched up quickly and a team with lesser talent will probably do very well with him. He's completely over his head when it comes to getting a still relatively young, star studded, offensively gifted team to play mature, responsible hockey. I think the Pens coaching job is a really challenging one. There probably aren't many that can find the right balance between being a player's coach and a discipline guy of these kinds of players. The Penguins of a previous era ran into the same thing.

DudeMan2766 wrote:YOu arent sure why? Its because you, among others have been throwing out this 2ND IN THE CONFERENCE!!! like its set in stone for the rest of the year. Do you not expect any teams below us to improve in the second half of the season? And do you expect the Pens given the way they are playing to keep their apparent stranglehold on 2nd in the conference for another 2 months? I just dont get why their standing 6 weeks into the season is any indication of how they are playing right now.

I'll try to placate you with an answer i have already given multiple times since this was directed at me.

The team HAS been at the top of the conference most, if not all this season so far. I said nothing of it being set in stone or not indicative of problem WE ARE ALL AWARE OF. I've CLEARLY stated that standings are quite fluid throughout the season, but fact remains, the Pens have been a top contender all season.

I also CLEARLY stated that I feel strongly a that Bylsma will not be fired mid-season. It just won't happen, and yes I used the standings in reference to support that. Complain all you want, but, despite it's flaws, the team is still a top contender.

I've also CLEARLY stated that the team needs improvement and that I believe Shero will strongly address that via trade this year.

DudeMan2766 wrote:And do you expect the Pens given the way they are playing to keep their apparent stranglehold on 2nd in the conference for another 2 months?

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

Maybe it's both. I'm also curious about the Pro Byslma crowd's reasons for keeping Byslma. And not the, "it's only one game!" or "they are 2nd in the conference!" it seems that the people who want to keep Byslma are doing it blindly without reason.

I'm in the Keep DB Camp. I feel like you don't fire a winning coach mid-season. Especially in an abbreviated season. It takes too long for a new coach to implement his system. If there is another disappointing post-season, then you maybe look at a coaching change.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

Maybe it's both. I'm also curious about the Pro Byslma crowd's reasons for keeping Byslma. And not the, "it's only one game!" or "they are 2nd in the conference!" it seems that the people who want to keep Byslma are doing it blindly without reason.

It's not that I'm vehemently against him being fired, it's that I'm not convinced that the current roster has what it takes to go anywhere in the playoffs.

DudeMan2766 wrote:YOu arent sure why? Its because you, among others have been throwing out this 2ND IN THE CONFERENCE!!! like its set in stone for the rest of the year. Do you not expect any teams below us to improve in the second half of the season? And do you expect the Pens given the way they are playing to keep their apparent stranglehold on 2nd in the conference for another 2 months? I just dont get why their standing 6 weeks into the season is any indication of how they are playing right now.

I'll try to placate you with an answer i have already given multiple times since this was directed at me.

The team HAS been at the top of the conference most, if not all this season so far. I said nothing of it being set in stone or not indicative of problem WE ARE ALL AWARE OF. I've CLEARLY stated that standings are quite fluid throughout the season, but fact remains, the Pens have been a top contender all season.

I also CLEARLY stated that I feel strongly a that Bylsma will not be fired mid-season. It just won't happen, and yes I used the standings in reference to support that. Complain all you want, but, despite it's flaws, the team is still a top contender.

I've also CLEARLY stated that the team needs improvement and that I believe Shero will strongly address that via trade this year.

DudeMan2766 wrote:And do you expect the Pens given the way they are playing to keep their apparent stranglehold on 2nd in the conference for another 2 months?

I'd like a reference as to where I stated this.

You didnt literally say it, but thats what I gathered from your 2nd in the conference argument. You make a couple points i agree with but I dont understand why being happy with the current standings is ever a discussion. But it seems like it is with a lot of people. Even in wins this year this team was playing horribly defensively, horribly on the PK, and taking just assinine penalties over and over. So far nothing indicates that is going to change.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

Maybe it's both. I'm also curious about the Pro Byslma crowd's reasons for keeping Byslma. And not the, "it's only one game!" or "they are 2nd in the conference!" it seems that the people who want to keep Byslma are doing it blindly without reason.

My reason is, to me, it's not Shero's way of doing business. And, I truly think Shero supports Bylsma. I know my reason isn't based on "Bylsma is an idiot and doesn't know how to adjust in-game plan to beat any and all opponents", or, "clearly Bylsma is a train-wreck who has lost any and all respect of his players never to win another game, thus plummeting down the standings into eternal oblivion." But that is what I stand by.

I think he has this season to "go deep" or he's done before the draft.

I'm changing my location to "they are 2nd in the conference!" since everyone seems to love it (and we can't have signatures).

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

Maybe it's both. I'm also curious about the Pro Byslma crowd's reasons for keeping Byslma. And not the, "it's only one game!" or "they are 2nd in the conference!" it seems that the people who want to keep Byslma are doing it blindly without reason.

It's not that I'm vehemently against him being fired, it's that I'm not convinced that the current roster has what it takes to go anywhere in the playoffs.

I think it's safe to assume that RS will not let all that cap space go to waste, so there will be some hopefully significant upgrades.

Seriously, what did you have for lunch that put this team in a slump? I think it is those same pictures you post in the game day thread, they just don't have the juju anymore. Come on now and buckle down and do a better job of blaming TK for this teams lazy play

DudeMan2766 wrote: I dont understand why being happy with the current standings is ever a discussion. But it seems like it is with a lot of people.

Honestly, I never claimed this either (happy). It was just a reference point. Rarely does a team having success (yes, they are, even with all the issues) get fired mid-season.

DudeMan2766 wrote:Even in wins this year this team was playing horribly defensively, horribly on the PK, and taking just assinine penalties over and over. So far nothing indicates that is going to change.

I've agreed numerous times with this thought. But, I still state: Bylsma will not get fired.

For Sid to say that the team keeps doing the same thing, so does he. I can't count how many times Sid gains the zone pulls up at the top of the circle and tries to force some cross ice pass that gets intercepted. It's a great play when it works, but more often than not teams are looking for Sid to pull up and clog the center of the ice and deflect/intercept his pass and there they go back the other way. I miss the pre concussion Sid that was mixing it up driving the net and looking to distribute. I feel he is almost back to the first couple of years in the league where he was pass first.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

Maybe it's both. I'm also curious about the Pro Byslma crowd's reasons for keeping Byslma. And not the, "it's only one game!" or "they are 2nd in the conference!" it seems that the people who want to keep Byslma are doing it blindly without reason.

It's not that I'm vehemently against him being fired, it's that I'm not convinced that the current roster has what it takes to go anywhere in the playoffs.

I think it's safe to assume that RS will not let all that cap space go to waste, so there will be some hopefully significant upgrades.

that cap space is as useful as it was last year...in that it's not very useful. we have no trade assets we'd be willing to deal and no money to give significant free agents this summer.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

He's got his limitations but he's a more than competent coach. Once he's done here he's going to get snatched up quickly and a team with lesser talent will probably do very well with him. He's completely over his head when it comes to getting a still relatively young, star studded, offensively gifted team to play mature, responsible hockey. I think the Pens coaching job is a really challenging one. There probably aren't many that can find the right balance between being a player's coach and a discipline guy of these kinds of players. The Penguins of a previous era ran into the same thing.

I think this is one of the few thought out and rational posts that I've read on this subject. Most of the other posts, are just blind-bashing or supporting DB. I've been for the most part, pro-Bylsma, so maybe I'm guilty of that too.

He clearly was the right coach for the Pens in 2009, and he was then and is compentent now. The question is, is he the right coach for this team - or the team that Shero is building? I have to hope he is, at least for this season - because I'd be shocked if he was canned now.

Coaches have such a short shelf-life in the NHL. I wish it wasn't that way. It would be nice to see DB stay for many successful years here. I'm rooting for that to happen, stability would be great, especially when competing against other teams who can their coaches so quickly. Maybe this is just pie-in-the-sky thinking by me haha.

My fear with Bylsma is that he's become too close with his players to see that some of them don't deserve to play. He needs to be the leader and being the leader sometimes means you have to be the bad guy. Kris Letang should not be playing as much as he is these days; he has been atrocious in the offensive zone (save the one play per game that makes you reconsider) and even worse in transition. I loved the idea that if you screwed up under MT, you sat, plain and simple. Now, MT needed to go for various reasons, but there is a troubling trend of consistent inconsistency with the team these past two seasons.

columbia wrote:I wonder how many from the fire DB camp thinks he's just straight up not competent vs having lost the team.

He's got his limitations but he's a more than competent coach. Once he's done here he's going to get snatched up quickly and a team with lesser talent will probably do very well with him. He's completely over his head when it comes to getting a still relatively young, star studded, offensively gifted team to play mature, responsible hockey. I think the Pens coaching job is a really challenging one. There probably aren't many that can find the right balance between being a player's coach and a discipline guy of these kinds of players. The Penguins of a previous era ran into the same thing.

I think this is one of the few thought out and rational posts that I've read on this subject. Most of the other posts, are just blind-bashing or supporting DB. I've been for the most part, pro-Bylsma, so maybe I'm guilty of that too.

He clearly was the right coach for the Pens in 2009, and he was then and is compentent now. The question is, is he the right coach for this team - or the team that Shero is building? I have to hope he is, at least for this season - because I'd be shocked if he was canned now.

Coaches have such a short shelf-life in the NHL. I wish it wasn't that way. It would be nice to see DB stay for many successful years here. I'm rooting for that to happen, stability would be great, especially when competing against other teams who can their coaches so quickly. Maybe this is just pie-in-the-sky thinking by me haha.

Problem is Shero is a building a team to fit the DB system and been since 2010. It's hard to backtrack on drafts and FA signings.

This team might be in more trouble if a they tries to run a system counting on defensive positioning, breakout and cycle play.