Bathia_Mapes:FTA: Bartenders are prohibited from serving an intoxicated person and could be held liable for any crash or injury that results, though.

Also FTA: "He said, 'I'm going to have to fire you, because it's bad for business to have a bartender that will call the cops,'" DeVito said.

Someone needs to remind the bartender's former boss that it would be far worse if the drunken driver caused an accident that resulted in someone's death. The family of the deceased would have every right to sue the bar into oblivion.

This is as far as I needed to read into this thread before I thought, "Yep... Exactly"

Barkeeps are riding on a knife edge every night. If they serve the wrong person too much, it's a problem. If they don't serve them enough, it's a problem. In this wonderful land of lawsuits, if someone drives from the bar and kills a car full of children on their way home from a charity benefit, the parents will sue, not the driver, but the bar that got them drunk. And in some cases, they will actually sue the barkeep.

In this case, getting fired was actually a better option. It's better than getting sued for something that isn't your fault.

davidphogan:Isn't it illegal to serve someone you know is already drunk anyway pretty much everywhere? I know at least in some states the bar owner could use that as a reason to fire her. She admitted serving an already visibly intoxicated guy more beer, why not just say that you were scared of the liability of keeping a bartender on who knowingly gave someone who was already drunk more alcohol?

That is true in Georgia, although it's not enforced until after a wreck.

What she should have done is gone up to the man and said, "You are too drunk to drive. If you get behind the wheel I am going to have to call the cops." Then take his keys and call him a cab.

I was a bartender for ten years. I said the above more than once. If they didn't have cash for a cab then I would let them run a tab or pay for it myself.

Would every person who drove away from the bar pass a breathalyzer? No. But anyone I ever called the cops on (that wasn't brawling) got a warning from me first.

She sounds vindictive. She shouldn't be fired for calling the cops, she should be fired because she did it in a passive-aggressive way. She didn't really do it to protect him / the public. If she was trying to protect people she never would have let him get behind the wheel in the first place.

Not white knighting this chick...but...

The article is woefully lacking supporting material, she very well may have asked him not to drive. We just do not know.

I used to bartend at a restaurant where the property management company had hired some pretty aggressive towing company that towed any vehicle in the lot after 2:30am. We had plenty of occasions where employees cars were towed, anyway...it was bullshiat that the restaurant was not allowed to authorize a patron to leave his/her car behind for the night and get a ride home/take a cab...the guest would have faced an almost $200 towing and impound fee.

Personal responsibility, blah, blah, blah...planning ahead, blah, blah, blah...look shiat happens, sometimes you drink too much and are faced with the decision of drive home and risk DUI/bad accident or leave the car and face a huge fine.

I think property management companies that do not allow folks to leave their cars behind in a restaurant's parking lot is just rude and does a disservice to the community.

Back on topic, I am certain that there is more to this story than this poorly written article is stating.

tinfoil-hat maggie:Insurgent: tinfoil-hat maggie: Deep Contact: Calling the cops is the last thing to do. They'll be all pissed off for waking them up. Call a cab for the nice drunk.

Yea, and if they don't want a cab?

your experience at a hotel restaurant is completely irrelevant. you deal with strangers, for the most part. you are not in a small town tending a bar full of local veterans. do you understand the difference?

It surprises me how many stupid people like to stand up and proudly proclaim their stupid.

It surprises me when someone insults someone else for being stupid, using incorrect grammar.

BarkingUnicorn:JesusJuice: Yeah, it sucks, but of course her boss fired her. What else could he do? I sure as hell wouldn't go to any bar where the bartender called the cops on me just for trying to drive home. He's running a business.

Perhaps if he hadn't fired her, no one would ever have known she called the cops.

But firing her is great PR. Now everyone knows that he protects drunks and drunk drivers. Business will boom. Sure, the liquor control folks could go undercover and bust him for over-serving. But that's not going to happen to a VFW bar.

Why does she have a slam dunk case against her former employer? All we have here is a bitter, fired employee and her word as to what her boss told her. All he has to do is deny it if it ever gets to court. Not like any one of the regulars at the bar is going to stand up for a snitch, they are going to say she was rude, snotty and frequently served people who were already too drunk to drive.

Katie98_KT:Capt. Sparkles: davidphogan: Isn't it illegal to serve someone you know is already drunk anyway pretty much everywhere? I know at least in some states the bar owner could use that as a reason to fire her. She admitted serving an already visibly intoxicated guy more beer, why not just say that you were scared of the liability of keeping a bartender on who knowingly gave someone who was already drunk more alcohol?

A buddy of mine lives over in Seattle and works part-time as a bartender. According to him, Washington state law says that it's illegal to refuse to serve alcohol to pregnant women. He says the only way you can legally skirt the law is to serve them at least one drink and then cut them off for having had "too many." Apparently, how many is too many is entirely up to the bartender's judgment. I know it's not quite the same as refusing to serve a guy who's already completely shiatfaced, but it sort of reminded me of that.

Tell your buddy that it is fairly common in europe for doctors to advise pregnant women that its ok to drink a small amount (after early pregnancy- early bad. )

he shouldnt worry about serving someone he can tell is pregnant 1 drink

Unless it puts her over the .02-.05 limit, which is also common in Europe....

tinfoil-hat maggie:Insurgent: tinfoil-hat maggie: Deep Contact: Calling the cops is the last thing to do. They'll be all pissed off for waking them up. Call a cab for the nice drunk.

Yea, and if they don't want a cab?

your experience at a hotel restaurant is completely irrelevant. you deal with strangers, for the most part. you are not in a small town tending a bar full of local veterans. do you understand the difference?

It surprises me how many stupid people like to stand up and proudly proclaim their stupid.

It surprises ME how many people who are trying to claim others are stupid don't even know the difference between There, Their and They're.

I think, for places where you have to drive to drink, there should be an amnesty hour. One hour a day where DUI isn't going to get you pulled over. It's still a crime, but only if you cause an accident. You drive home responsibly and cause no trouble and no one prosecutes ya. It'll keep sober people off the road then, too. That's my plan. It's not a good one yet, but for off the cuff? Not a bad solution.

I once knew a cashier at a grocery store who worked thirds that called the cops on the folks coming through her store drunk. She had an officer's number on her cell. However, not working for a bar she never got in trouble for it and it did help quiet down the wee hours of the morning.

Years ago, I was working a third shift cashier's shift when two guys came up with a case of beer for part of the order at 2:30 am. MI doesn't allow beer sales between 2 am and 7 am. I informed them that I couldn't ring it up. Of course they started to argue and I even scanned the case to prove the register wouldn't allow it. While we talked, an uniformed officer got in line behind them as they started to tell me, they are from NY and NY sells till 3 am. I saw the officer and said well do you think your car can get there before 3, then the officer spoke up and said "I would like to see that". They paid for the part of the order they could purchase and left.

Genevieve Marie:The bar I used to work at kept an off duty cop on the premises just for this purpose. He patrolled the parking lot, and if he saw anyone who looked drunk getting into their car, he'd walk up and tell them that if they started the car, they'd be arrested and he strongly suggested they call a cab.

We would alert him to anyone we thought was drinking too much. It worked beautifully.

And this is a beautiful system. Gives the drunk an out, protects the bar and the employees, and doesn't go into the MADD prohibition.

/Great. I just imagined David Tennant as a copper.//"I give you ONE chance!"

Her boss is right. It is bad for business. Patrons will start going elsewhere because they are worried about the bartender narcing on them, even if they are drinking reasonable amounts. If you feel compelled to report people who may be driving drunk, bar tending isn't the profession for you

instantkarma78:Why does she have a slam dunk case against her former employer? All we have here is a bitter, fired employee and her word as to what her boss told her. All he has to do is deny it if it ever gets to court. Not like any one of the regulars at the bar is going to stand up for a snitch, they are going to say she was rude, snotty and frequently served people who were already too drunk to drive.

FTFA:

The commander of the post would not make a comment to 10TV News on camera but said that while DeVito did the right thing morally, she did not do the right thing for the business.

Pumpernickel bread:Her boss is right. It is bad for business. Patrons will start going elsewhere because they are worried about the bartender narcing on them, even if they are drinking reasonable amounts. If you feel compelled to report people who may be driving drunk, bar tending isn't the profession for you

namatad:hubiestubert: In Mass, we can be charged and held liable if we DON'T call. And for serving them over the limit, and letting them go, we can be held accountable in civil suits as well.

Then again, Mass is full of dirty Commie Pinkos, so there is that. Taking a man's keys, it's like living in the USSR...

so therefore, bars are required to have breathalyzers right? every drinker must be tested before they get served a drink. right?rationally, that would be the only way for this law to work.

Otherwise, I could walk in drunkover the limit. Get served. Walk out and trip. Then sue?LOL

I love laws which are just make-work for lawyers.Unless there it's a felony with prison time behind it, most of these laws are pretty much ignored.

I feel so much safer

Actually, what it means is that taverns show a bit of responsibility. And care for their patrons. And oddly enough, a bit of due diligence on the part of those in the hospitality industry towards their patrons, is not a bad thing. It's not about nannying, but about insuring that your customers are good to drive. And that may mean free coffee, that may even mean keeping someone past closing to sober up, finding them a ride, calling them a cab, so that they don't injure themselves or others. It's called having some care, you callous prick, and here's hoping that you find yourself in an establishment where that is the rule when you get three sheets, so you don't wrap yourself around a telephone pole, or paste an innocent bystander.

We all have a responsibility to one another. That's the rule, babies: be kind.

PreMortem:And what country do you live in where people get off with a warning for DUI?

Wisconsin. First offense is a fine of $150-300, license suspended for 6-9 months and no jail time required. It's only a misdemeanor if a child under age 16 is also in the vehicle (and that's only as of 2010). The penalties do rise, but even on second offense the minimum jail term is 5 days (max 6 months) if its within 10 years of the prior DUI. The fourth offense is only a felony if its within 5 years of your last offense (also new as of 2010).

The only "strict" part of our laws is that we have an implied consent law, so if you're driving here and an officer suspects you of being under the influence you must submit to a blood, breath or urine test or its an automatic 1 year license suspension.

flyinglizard:BarkingUnicorn: JesusJuice: Yeah, it sucks, but of course her boss fired her. What else could he do? I sure as hell wouldn't go to any bar where the bartender called the cops on me just for trying to drive home. He's running a business.

Perhaps if he hadn't fired her, no one would ever have known she called the cops.

But firing her is great PR. Now everyone knows that he protects drunks and drunk drivers. Business will boom. Sure, the liquor control folks could go undercover and bust him for over-serving. But that's not going to happen to a VFW bar.

Yeah, but this was an American Legion Post.

Correct. There is no business that can "boom." It is a Legion Post and you have to be a member to go in. It is a "private club." If that private club doesn't want to have a bartender that calls the cops on its members when they leave, they don't have to.

In addition, there isn't any proof that she was fired for this reason anyways so all the comments about the operator of the establishment are baseless.

Two days later, DeVito said that she got a call from her boss."He said, 'I'm going to have to fire you, because it's bad for business to have a bartender that will call the cops,'" DeVito said.

Benjimin_Dover:flyinglizard: BarkingUnicorn: JesusJuice: Yeah, it sucks, but of course her boss fired her. What else could he do? I sure as hell wouldn't go to any bar where the bartender called the cops on me just for trying to drive home. He's running a business.

Perhaps if he hadn't fired her, no one would ever have known she called the cops.

But firing her is great PR. Now everyone knows that he protects drunks and drunk drivers. Business will boom. Sure, the liquor control folks could go undercover and bust him for over-serving. But that's not going to happen to a VFW bar.

Yeah, but this was an American Legion Post.

Correct. There is no business that can "boom." It is a Legion Post and you have to be a member to go in. It is a "private club." If that private club doesn't want to have a bartender that calls the cops on its members when they leave, they don't have to.

In addition, there isn't any proof that she was fired for this reason anyways so all the comments about the operator of the establishment are baseless.

Two days later, DeVito said that she got a call from her boss."He said, 'I'm going to have to fire you, because it's bad for business to have a bartender that will call the cops,'" DeVito said.

I say she is a lying coont until shown otherwise.

Except that in TFA, her boss admitted off camera that he considered it bad for business

This is pretty much EVERY VFW i've been too - always a smashed drunk vet who starts early as possible in the morning and around 12 when the bar opens he heads to VFW to drink till whenever.I usually hop in the VFW around 7pm right when happy hour is ending, generally quite a few are leaving at this point - I am simply amazed none have been in serious accidents at this point, and quite a few ride motorcycles.Ironically we had a Vet die in a motorcycle accident (unrelated to drinking) and produced a bunch of "look twice for motorcycle" stickers to sell to cover the cost. Yet day after day quite a few leave the VFW drunk as hell.

/learned my lesson after the first DUI - I'm fortunate I have a DD that drives me whenever I feel like going out otherwise i'd stay home

Bathia_Mapes:FTA: Bartenders are prohibited from serving an intoxicated person and could be held liable for any crash or injury that results, though.

Also FTA: "He said, 'I'm going to have to fire you, because it's bad for business to have a bartender that will call the cops,'" DeVito said.

Someone needs to remind the bartender's former boss that it would be far worse if the drunken driver caused an accident that resulted in someone's death. The family of the deceased would have every right to sue the bar into oblivion.

Yeah, if a bar patron kills someone in a DUI the bar owner is going to lose every last nickel in the lawsuit.

You know, if I was the local police chief, I'd respond to that owners comment with one of my own:"It's also bad for a bar if police permanently station an officer on their street who will pull over and breathalyze every single customer coming out of their parking lot."

hubiestubert:Actually, what it means is that taverns show a bit of responsibility. And care for their patrons. And oddly enough, a bit of due diligence on the part of those in the hospitality industry towards their patrons, is not a bad thing. It's not about nannying, but about insuring that your customers are good to drive. And that may mean free coffee, that may even mean keeping someone past closing to sober up, finding them a ride, calling them a cab, so that they don't injure themselves or others. It's called having some care, you callous prick, and here's hoping that you find yourself in an establishment where that is the rule when you get three sheets, so you don't wrap yourself around a telephone pole, or paste an innocent bystander.

We all have a responsibility to one another. That's the rule, babies: be kind.

Not to mention it's better for business to take measures to prevent your patrons from dying, since a dead patron usually isn't much of a repeat patron.

/ I've had you farkied for a while, btw, cause you actually know wtf you're talking about in the hospitality business

PreMortem:I'm sure that if she told him she would call the cops he would have made other arraingments.

Yes, because intoxicated people are notorious for their receptivity to reasoned suggestions, and their increased wisdom.

And something FTFA:According to the Ohio Department of Public Safety, there is no law requiring a bartender to report a drunken-driver.

Bartenders are prohibited from serving an intoxicated person and could be held liable for any crash or injury that results, though.

Kinda seems like a catch-22... There's no law requiring it, but if you don't do it you're liable to be sued into oblivion.

And there's no way that bar owner's statements aren't going to be used against him now in future lawsuits. I'm sure lawyers all over that area have just put that story in to a safe deposit box. If someone does drive home drunk and kill themselves they're going to be busting out in court that the genius bar owner/manager is firing employees who try to stop drunk patrons from driving home drunk.

Pumpernickel bread:Her boss is right. It is bad for business. Patrons will start going elsewhere because they are worried about the bartender narcing on them, even if they are drinking reasonable amounts. If you feel compelled to report people who may be driving drunk, bar tending isn't the profession for you

Should have just insisted the guy take a cab

How it the bartender supposed to gauge whether the person can operate a vehicle? Cops have standardized tests and breathalyzers. Making the bartender or customer gauge the level of intoxication to see whether it is at the 0.08 magic level is stupid.

The solution is to make the level for DUI more like 0.02. Then it's real simple - if you consume ANY amount of alcholoh, you don't drive for 4 hours. No more of this "2 beers is OK" BS. If you want to make drinking and driving illegal, then make it illegal.

Genevieve Marie:The bar I used to work at kept an off duty cop on the premises just for this purpose. He patrolled the parking lot, and if he saw anyone who looked drunk getting into their car, he'd walk up and tell them that if they started the car, they'd be arrested and he strongly suggested they call a cab.

We would alert him to anyone we thought was drinking too much. It worked beautifully.

This woman though? Clearly didn't have the kind of support from the owner to have something like that in place. She did the right thing. And no one knows if she tried to warn him first or tried to take his keys away or call a cab. I had folks get belligerent with me over that many times. It was helpful to know that I didn't have to keep arguing with stupid drunk folks- I could just let the officer deal with them.

This. The drunk was hammered before this bartender arrived. His previous bartender didn't cut him off. The new one didn't cut him off, just "tried to slow him down." They were obviously under orders to keep the money coming in, or else. The owner's remark about morality vs. business iced the cake. Take his license.

Capt. Sparkles:A buddy of mine lives over in Seattle and works part-time as a bartender. According to him, Washington state law says that it's illegal to refuse to serve alcohol to pregnant women. He says the only way you can legally skirt the law is to serve them at least one drink and then cut them off for having had "too many." Apparently, how many is too many is entirely up to the bartender's judgment. I know it's not quite the same as refusing to serve a guy who's already completely shiatfaced, but it sort of reminded me of that.