Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

I've been lurking and watching this experiment (I stopped buying during the S01E03 kerfluffle, really, I don't have time to deal with the Open Sky hiccups). But I've been thinking about this project and what the goals could be.

When photography was becoming more accepted in U.S. museums, John Szarkowski curated an exhibit called The Family of Man at the Met (iirc). And it was a very "nice" exhibit--people could take their family there on a Sunday afternoon and leave with a nice, glowing, happy feeling about it. That exhibit was skewered by experts, because it was too safe and was not representative of the media. The art-photographers of the era were doing more Lutens-like work (meaning darker and edgier than represented at the Met).

Maybe the motive behind safe choices for museum exhibits of this type (including Burr's and Szarkowski) is to get the general public thinking about accepting new media (perfume/photography) as an art. If we see, accept, and have a good experience with the exhibit, we're more likely to agree that perfume/photography is expressive and museum worthy.

So maybe the audience for this is the Sunday afternoon museum person? The fume heads are already converted? I'm not sure.

That's what I'm wondering at this point, anyway. I guess the Opensky project would allow Chandler to take more chances, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto

I don't think I'm throwing in the towel, myself. I did see the exhibit in NYC, and my impression was that the scents therein were generally more clear-cut and more obvious members of their classifications, than what we got in the Untitled series. For example, calling Untitled by Daniela Andrier either Brutalist or Post-Brutalist makes sense when you smell it. The fragrance is (to my nose) constructed from olfactory cinder blocks - yet somehow made beautiful. Angel - Surrealist - no problem. And most of the others - they make sense. I still don't get Eau de Lierre as Photo Realism, but that's a tough call, IMO. I'm curious why Chanel no. 5 is not in your list - it was in the exhibit (also Abstract Expressionism, IIRC). Again - that and Jicky - no problem. In fact, the whole exhibit made sense, in its chronological change of styles.

But I would be much more hard-pressed to call the predominant artistic movement on any of the scents in S01. Much less obvious to me.

You're right - I missed Chanel No. 5, but that was an accident, because it wasn't in the catalog and I copied the list from there. Oops.

IF you smell Ivy in Eau de Lierre (I didn't - I guess I'm not that familiar with the smell of Ivy), then I get the photo realism classification. I haven't been able to visit the exhibition - what did Burr say about Pleasures and why its an example of photo realism?

The other comparison I'm interested in is between Osmanthe Yunnan and S01E06. Is this an example of Luminism?

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by patentgeek

I've been lurking and watching this experiment (I stopped buying during the S01E03 kerfluffle, really, I don't have time to deal with the Open Sky hiccups). But I've been thinking about this project and what the goals could be.

When photography was becoming more accepted in U.S. museums, John Szarkowski curated an exhibit called The Family of Man at the Met (iirc). And it was a very "nice" exhibit--people could take their family there on a Sunday afternoon and leave with a nice, glowing, happy feeling about it. That exhibit was skewered by experts, because it was too safe and was not representative of the media. The art-photographers of the era were doing more Lutens-like work (meaning darker and edgier than represented at the Met).

Maybe the motive behind safe choices for museum exhibits of this type (including Burr's and Szarkowski) is to get the general public thinking about accepting new media (perfume/photography) as an art. If we see, accept, and have a good experience with the exhibit, we're more likely to agree that perfume/photography is expressive and museum worthy.

So maybe the audience for this is the Sunday afternoon museum person? The fume heads are already converted? I'm not sure.

That's what I'm wondering at this point, anyway. I guess the Opensky project would allow Chandler to take more chances, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Thanks for de-lurking and joining the conversation! Your story about John Szarkowski seems very relevant - thanks for sharing.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

Originally Posted by patentgeek

Maybe the motive behind safe choices for museum exhibits of this type (including Burr's and Szarkowski) is to get the general public thinking about accepting new media (perfume/photography) as an art. If we see, accept, and have a good experience with the exhibit, we're more likely to agree that perfume/photography is expressive and museum worthy.

So maybe the audience for this is the Sunday afternoon museum person? The fume heads are already converted? I'm not sure.

That's what I'm wondering at this point, anyway. I guess the Opensky project would allow Chandler to take more chances, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Agree on both counts, however I am baffled as to the reasoning behind the seemingly consistent 'extra mild' theme running thru the selections chosen for Opensky.

I just had a chance to watch the reveal video, and now I'm confused by some of terminology. In the introduction of S01E06, Burr said it emanated light (a characteristic I immediately perceived upon drydown) but in the reveal he says its not "light filled". I know he was talking about diaphanous citrus scents when he said that, and I agree that Bal D'Afrique isn't a sheer citrus scent. But it leaves me wondering whether, by "Luminism" he's talking about light-filled or light-producing scents. Hmm.

I didn't really expect him to switch to S02 yet: it's only been about six months since S01 launched - I'm picturing a 10 or 12 edition series.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

"A warm and romantic vetiver inspired by Paris in the late 20's and its infatuation with African culture, art, music and dance. A mix of the Parisian avantgardism and African culture shaped a unique and vibrant expression. The intense life, the excess and euphoria is illustrated by Bal d'Afrique's neroli, African marigold and Moroccan cedarwood. 100ml"

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

Oops, the reveal was back on Dec 29, six days ago. Duh. But when I looked at it on Youtube today, there had only been "12 views" so I'm probably not the only one who missed it.

And did he say it was "stupid, demonic and unhelpful" to talk about ingredients, and then go on to talk about some of the ingredients ? I'm with him about paying attention to the psychological impressions we get from perfume, but I'm not sure how good a policy it is to continue to bash the folks who tend to mention notes.

I am really glad that CB has taken the step to leave his own impressions to the reveal, rather than giving us too many of them in the introduction, and I hope he keeps that up.

I must say though, my favorite part was at 7:28 : "...does not in any way smell citrus (perfumer immediately puts strip up to nose)."

Although many of these things may not be to my personal taste, I'm continuing to enjoy this project, and hope Chandler will continue to urge us to reflect on our own "emotional response" to these things.

I don't think he'll consider us dolts if we did not instantly see this as a reflection of how people in 1920's Paris saw the African arts of that time.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

I just had a chance to watch the reveal video, and now I'm confused by some of terminology. In the introduction of S01E06, Burr said it emanated light (a characteristic I immediately perceived upon drydown) but in the reveal he says its not "light filled". I know he was talking about diaphanous citrus scents when he said that, and I agree that Bal D'Afrique isn't a sheer citrus scent. But it leaves me wondering whether, by "Luminism" he's talking about light-filled or light-producing scents. Hmm.

I didn't really expect him to switch to S02 yet: it's only been about six months since S01 launched - I'm picturing a 10 or 12 edition series.

Yes, I was thinking it would keep going on S01, too!

Hmmmm - Bal D'Afrique! I do believe this was one of the Byredo scents that I did actually like, when I tried a fair number of the line.

Originally Posted by PerfumePorMoi

"A warm and romantic vetiver inspired by Paris in the late 20's and its infatuation with African culture, art, music and dance. A mix of the Parisian avantgardism and African culture shaped a unique and vibrant expression. The intense life, the excess and euphoria is illustrated by Bal d'Afrique's neroli, African marigold and Moroccan cedarwood. 100ml"

Wowza. I get none of that from S01E06.

Thank goodness we got the vetiver, or I think we would have struck out completely!!! Though I think we got cedar and the florals, too (not marigold, but still...).

Originally Posted by Birdboy48

Oops, the reveal was back on Dec 29, six days ago. Duh. But when I looked at it on Youtube today, there had only been "12 views" so I'm probably not the only one who missed it.

And did he say it was "stupid, demonic and unhelpful" to talk about ingredients, and then go on to talk about some of the ingredients ? I'm with him about paying attention to the psychological impressions we get from perfume, but I'm not sure how good a policy it is to continue to bash the folks who tend to mention notes.

I am really glad that CB has taken the step to leave his own impressions to the reveal, rather than giving us too many of them in the introduction, and I hope he keeps that up.

I must say though, my favorite part was at 7:28 : "...does not in any way smell citrus (perfumer immediately puts strip up to nose)."

Although many of these things may not be to my personal taste, I'm continuing to enjoy this project, and hope Chandler will continue to urge us to reflect on our own "emotional response" to these things.

I don't think he'll consider us dolts if we did not instantly see this as a reflection of how people in 1920's Paris saw the African arts of that time.

At the same time, it's kind of a cool theme to work from.

I agree - pretty cool, but not necessarily obvious from the fragance itself. I will say that the warmth of the fragrance is quite representative of Africa, and make me think of warm places like that. The scent is certainly *consistent* with its story.

Originally Posted by rubegon

Ikea wall art?

I'd like a little bit of Ikea wall art that's been "mashed up" by the Ikea monkey!

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

Oops, the reveal was back on Dec 29, six days ago. Duh. But when I looked at it on Youtube today, there had only been "12 views" so I'm probably not the only one who missed it.

And did he say it was "stupid, demonic and unhelpful" to talk about ingredients, and then go on to talk about some of the ingredients ? I'm with him about paying attention to the psychological impressions we get from perfume, but I'm not sure how good a policy it is to continue to bash the folks who tend to mention notes.

I am really glad that CB has taken the step to leave his own impressions to the reveal, rather than giving us too many of them in the introduction, and I hope he keeps that up.

I must say though, my favorite part was at 7:28 : "...does not in any way smell citrus (perfumer immediately puts strip up to nose)."

Although many of these things may not be to my personal taste, I'm continuing to enjoy this project, and hope Chandler will continue to urge us to reflect on our own "emotional response" to these things.

I don't think he'll consider us dolts if we did not instantly see this as a reflection of how people in 1920's Paris saw the African arts of that time.

At the same time, it's kind of a cool theme to work from.

I agree that the Africa by way of 1920s Paris is very cool - picturing Josephine Baker dancing! But like you, the scent didn't conjure that image for me. The outstanding discovery for me, like one of Burr's comments, was to find a Vetiver scent that's warm and not astringent.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

I've thrown in the towel. In art history, we do "slide comparisons" where we compare and contrast two pieces of art. For me there was always great electricity in this, as you had no idea what the pieces would be, and a very short (usually 10 minute) time period to write 4-6 coherent paragraphs justifying what you thought.

There is a lot of subjectivity in Art History. For example, their are ceiling paintings in a small village church in Las Trampas, New Mexico. I felt certain they were of Native American origin but the professor felt they were European. I went there, photographed them from a lot of angles and found a lot of evidence indicating they were Native American. My prof was intrigued.

If Mr. Burr feels that MMM Untitled is correlated with Post-Brutalist Architecture, I would like to hear and understand why. If he's justified the comparison, I apologize in advance. First, I am quite familiar with Brutalist Architecture, but not post-brutalist architecture. Given current feelings about wanting to take wrecking balls to Brutalist structures, is Mr. Burr making a joke? Is post-Brutalism going back to nature after taking the wrecking ball to the offending structures? I could definately see Untitled correlating to that. I like a number of Brutalist structures. I can see walking through the completely Brutalist U Mass Dartmouth Campus, which is set in a forested area, and see MMM Untitled as the perfect fragrance to wear - the light of green nature breaking through the concrete Brutalist structures.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

Originally Posted by Babsvs

I've thrown in the towel. In art history, we do "slide comparisons" where we compare and contrast two pieces of art. For me there was always great electricity in this, as you had no idea what the pieces would be, and a very short (usually 10 minute) time period to write 4-6 coherent paragraphs justifying what you thought.

There is a lot of subjectivity in Art History. For example, their are ceiling paintings in a small village church in Las Trampas, New Mexico. I felt certain they were of Native American origin but the professor felt they were European. I went there, photographed them from a lot of angles and found a lot of evidence indicating they were Native American. My prof was intrigued.

If Mr. Burr feels that MMM Untitled is correlated with Post-Brutalist Architecture, I would like to hear and understand why. If he's justified the comparison, I apologize in advance. First, I am quite familiar with Brutalist Architecture, but not post-brutalist architecture. Given current feelings about wanting to take wrecking balls to Brutalist structures, is Mr. Burr making a joke? Is post-Brutalism going back to nature after taking the wrecking ball to the offending structures? I could definately see Untitled correlating to that. I like a number of Brutalist structures. I can see walking through the completely Brutalist U Mass Dartmouth Campus, which is set in a forested area, and see MMM Untitled as the perfect fragrance to wear - the light of green nature breaking through the concrete Brutalist structures.

This is why I'm hoping his essays are eventually published in an electronic form that anyone can access. At this point, his meaning is available to just those who visited the exhibit or bought the catalog.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

I am throwing in the towel. Maybe Mr Burr's classifications make more sense if you've been to the museum exhibit or read the catalog. I just get frustrated. Here's an example. Mr. Burr calls my favorite of last summer, MMM Untitled, post-brutalism. In an interview he equates Brutalism with violence. Brutalist architecture gets its name from Le Corbusier's term "beton brut" which means raw concrete. Brutalist architecture is pretty much defined by its use of raw concrete. I don't think the term brutal is used as violent in this context. So when Mr. Burr is saying MMM Untitled or Fracas or Brutalist because they are violent, it doesnt make sense to me.

Also, he uses the term post-brutalist, not brutalist. I don't know is this is serious or a pretty witty joke. Many people consider Brutalist architecture ugly. The style, because of it's massive structures, is primarly used in civic or public architecture. There are calls to take a wrecking ball to it. So does he mean that Post-Brutalist architecture is a pile of rubble? Is it the desire to go back to nature? Is it pacifism? I have never seen the term Post-Brutalist used except by Mr. Burr. Please forgive me if Post-Brutalist is a common termI juat don't knw it.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

Like babsvs, my degree and background is in art history (although I currently do not work in the field), and I have yet to get the comparisons Mr. Burr is making. Neither do I think equating perfume with artistic movements it's all that valuable an exercise. What I DO like was his suggestion we discuss the works from an emotional point of view.

Re: Chandler Burr Untitled S01E06

I couldn't find anything describing "post-brutalism", but I sort of assumed that it was something along the lines of modern, brutalist-reminiscent architecture - less severe than true brutalist, but emphasizing simple forms and still-fairly-crude materials (specialized concretes and unfinished but interesting metals, etc.). In that sense, I thought that MMM Untitled would qualify, since I detected strong smoky/earthy notes that would be out of place and "ugly", if not so well-balanced with the remainder of the fragrance, as they are.