DarrenFW wrote:One of the biggest revelations (for me anyway) from this site and dealing with foreign girls online is that the PERSONALITY of the girl is the most important factor.

There are plenty of posts that say bascially "American Women Suck" on here. I agree with them.

The main problem of the PUA thing is that they totally DISCOUNT this fact. They tell you there is a cookie cutter formula (Mystery's Model) and that if you master it, you will be a master of picking up chicks.

And they see all women as the same.

What a mistake.

So not only is it a very very low return activity but it discounts the behaviors of the women and their personalities - this makes it even less effective.

Anyone who is on this board has read Steve55 (Steve Neese)'s research on Dating Profiles. If you have not, it is a great observation.

Basically, the American girls on dating sites here in the U.S. (or western women - UK, Anglosphere) are Demanding, whining, complaining, filled with frustration. The foreign dating sites with foregin girls are kind, sweet, and they try to be a good wife for a guy.

My dude, let's not get it twisted anymore: the UK is a part of the Anglosphere. You put a comma delimiter there between UK and Anglosphere as if it were two separate independent entities; there is a correlation between the two.

"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

Sexter wrote:Winston already made an article about the success rate of PUA, i will clarify it more on detail.

Lets say you cold approach 100 women. Lets assume you are an average looking guy who happens to be confident.

Usually, if you have confidence, you will probably spark a conversation 70% of the time. 70% of 100 is 70.

that leaves you with 70/100 chance of a woman whom you approached stopping and talking to you.

Of those 70, lets assume the woman you approach is thin/attractive and most thin/attractive women have boyfriends. Ima give a generous number(50%) instead of (90% because 90% of thin/attractive women have boyfriends).

Of those 70 women that stops and talks to you, 50% of them will have a boyfriend. Leaving 35 of them being single.

Lets assume, those 35 single women give you their number.

that's 35 phone numbers. Lets assume the flake rate of those numbers is 80% (YES! roughly 80% of the numbers you will ever get from an american woman is FLAKey or her won't answering her phone)

80% of 35 is 7.

So when you approach 100 women, 7 of them will go on a date with you. lets assume you aren't creepy and sleep with 4/7 of them. That's a 4/100 chance of you sleeping with a woman you cold approach.

Yeah PUA is pretty bullshit. the return on investment is f***ed UP but this is the TRUTH.

The difference is in the %. If you were to go to the philippines or russia, the odds will be in your favor.

Dates with 7% and intimacy with 4% sounds like pretty good odds to me. If it were that easy, all you have to do is become desensitized to rejections and flake-outs and approach lots of girls. Lets just say you made a sport out of it and hit-up 25 per week. According to your figures, you would be getting 1 new sex partners as a reward for your week's work or 52 per year. If your game is that good and lots of casual sex is your main goal, perhaps you are fine in the States.

As for PI, consider that a substantial percentage of the non-working girls are virgins are quasi virgins. That means talking and dating might be easy (for the ones who are open to foreigners). Sex might be a lot more challenging.

Rock, those are very generous numbers bro. VERY VERY VERY generous.

realistically speaking, the NORMAL guy who approaches 100 american women probably has a less than 1% chance of sleeping with her. I was just making exceptions of the man

There is the guy that likes to stick his dick in a fan. Hes gotten really good at sticking his dick in a fan. He teaches other guys how to effectively stick their dicks in fans. More and more guys are now sticking their dicks in fans. I am sure it takes alot of skill to stick your dick in a fan.

The biggest turn off for PUA that I experienced is that they teach you how NOT TO BE yourself! What if I think Mystery looks like a selfish creep??? And I do think so. That goth/geeky look is retarded IMHO, but that look is installed into American women mind by MTV and garbage Pop-Rock bands, so chicks think "it's cool and hip", in reality it is retarded!

Therefore, to master PUA you have to change into being a fake selfish game-playing idiot that is so narcissistic - it makes girls cry, exactly the type American girls like and want. But are you going to be happy??? You will get laid, but it won't be real you! SO WHAT'S THE FREAKING POINT???

Life in America does not allow you to be you. No one is expecting to see real you, you guys know it. PUA is another version of this concept. BUT WHY is there genuine (more or less) guys like us, but why not girls??? Why I just never met an American-born and raised girl who is open, good looking and genuine? I actually did meet 2-3 farm-raised girls, they were average looking, but at least willing to listen, but that's a huge exception.

Another thing is that PUA teaches you to be a "Bad Boy". There is no version of "PUA good guy", they teach against that. Doesn't that bring more weirdo's, psycho's, depression and evil-minded people? When you play bad, you get bad and you act that way... It turns your whole concept of thinking about life.

And you do ALL that so some women give you attention? CRAP, guys like me have thousands of women in other countries. I am adorable, needed, loved and wanted just for being smart enough and educated enough. I am dating a model at the moment and she says every day that she is enjoying our time because I am way more smart than any other guy she dated. Why is she saying that? Because she is from Russia and did not grow up in the U.S. American guys seem fake and over-narcissist to her. Imagine when I go out with her? She is being hit on EVERY minute!

I took one of the first Ross Jeffries courses many years ago, and had some limited success, and yes, I did get laid. When I look back at it, I think the two things that worked were 1) it gave me the self-confidence to at least try to approach a woman, since I believed in it at that time, and 2) his patterns gave enough material for extending a conversation on topics that women are generally interested in. I still think the embedded commands and hypnotism are baloney. If you want a more natural approach, I would suggest meditation. With meditation, it is possible to reprogram your mind so that you are not sensitive to rejection. This is the biggest obstacle for most men. You approach a woman and she rejects you. Then you feel anger, shame, etc. which cause real pain, reduces your mental tranquility and self-esteem. In other words, you have to approach a woman, under the duress of knowing she can hit you hard with a baseball and make it hurt. How can someone be themselves under those circumstances? Now imagine if you could remove that reactive programming from your unconscious, and a rejection would feel hardly noticeable. Now, instead of hitting you with a baseball, she can only hit you with a feather. Her ability to punish you has been taken away, and she becomes harmless. Under these circumstances, you will relax, become playful within the context of your real self, and not want to copy someone else who pretends to be successful. The key is to train your mind so that it is firm and stable under all external circumstances. This is the goal of meditation.

MrPeabody wrote:I took one of the first Ross Jeffries courses many years ago, and had some limited success, and yes, I did get laid. When I look back at it, I think the two things that worked were 1) it gave me the self-confidence to at least try to approach a woman, since I believed in it at that time, and 2) his patterns gave enough material for extending a conversation on topics that women are generally interested in. I still think the embedded commands and hypnotism are baloney. If you want a more natural approach, I would suggest meditation. With meditation, it is possible to reprogram your mind so that you are not sensitive to rejection. This is the biggest obstacle for most men. You approach a woman and she rejects you. Then you feel anger, shame, etc. which cause real pain, reduces your mental tranquility and self-esteem. In other words, you have to approach a woman, under the duress of knowing she can hit you hard with a baseball and make it hurt. How can someone be themselves under those circumstances? Now imagine if you could remove that reactive programming from your unconscious, and a rejection would feel hardly noticeable. Now, instead of hitting you with a baseball, she can only hit you with a feather. Her ability to punish you has been taken away, and she becomes harmless. Under these circumstances, you will relax, become playful within the context of your real self, and not want to copy someone else who pretends to be successful. The key is to train your mind so that it is firm and stable under all external circumstances. This is the goal of meditation.

that's the fallacy about pickup

i don't think you got laid BECAUSE of ross jeffrey's teachings, you got laid because you simply approached more(thus increasing your odds) and giving credit all to jeffries teaching.

Sure, those NLP tools will help a little bit, but when it comes to complex human interaction it's way more complicated than that. You have to take into account other factors such as

1. how available she is
2. how high your standards are
3. how high her standards are
4. if she's looking for someone to f**k at that moment
5. how drunk she is
6. etc etc etc

, none of what you learned from RJ applies to you getting that lay, assuming that human interactino is complex. NLP isn't the magic pill that got you that lay, it's the fallacy of confidence you gave yourself when you applied his teachings......, when in reality, you already had that confidence to begin with, you just weren't applying it. Hence, you backwards rationalized that it's from "RJ's" teachings that got you that lay

MrPeabody wrote:I took one of the first Ross Jeffries courses many years ago, and had some limited success, and yes, I did get laid. When I look back at it, I think the two things that worked were 1) it gave me the self-confidence to at least try to approach a woman, since I believed in it at that time, and 2) his patterns gave enough material for extending a conversation on topics that women are generally interested in. I still think the embedded commands and hypnotism are baloney. If you want a more natural approach, I would suggest meditation. With meditation, it is possible to reprogram your mind so that you are not sensitive to rejection. This is the biggest obstacle for most men. You approach a woman and she rejects you. Then you feel anger, shame, etc. which cause real pain, reduces your mental tranquility and self-esteem. In other words, you have to approach a woman, under the duress of knowing she can hit you hard with a baseball and make it hurt. How can someone be themselves under those circumstances? Now imagine if you could remove that reactive programming from your unconscious, and a rejection would feel hardly noticeable. Now, instead of hitting you with a baseball, she can only hit you with a feather. Her ability to punish you has been taken away, and she becomes harmless. Under these circumstances, you will relax, become playful within the context of your real self, and not want to copy someone else who pretends to be successful. The key is to train your mind so that it is firm and stable under all external circumstances. This is the goal of meditation.

that's the fallacy about pickup

i don't think you got laid BECAUSE of ross jeffrey's teachings, you got laid because you simply approached more(thus increasing your odds) and giving credit all to jeffries teaching.

Sure, those NLP tools will help a little bit, but when it comes to complex human interaction it's way more complicated than that. You have to take into account other factors such as

1. how available she is
2. how high your standards are
3. how high her standards are
4. if she's looking for someone to f**k at that moment
5. how drunk she is
6. etc etc etc

, none of what you learned from RJ applies to you getting that lay, assuming that human interactino is complex. NLP isn't the magic pill that got you that lay, it's the fallacy of confidence you gave yourself when you applied his teachings......, when in reality, you already had that confidence to begin with, you just weren't applying it. Hence, you backwards rationalized that it's from "RJ's" teachings that got you that lay

You would have to do a controlled study to isolate all the variables, which, somehow, I doubt will ever be done. Just from my reflection on what happened, it did seem that the two factors I mentioned above were important. One lady was an ex beauty Queen, and I ran several hours of patterns with her over dinner after which she took me home and made the first move. Without the patterns, I would have ended up probably boring her to death. There was no alcohol involved. Scientists investigated NLP during the 80s, and none of the claims of NLP turned out to be true. In contrast, so far, every claim made by master mediators has been proven by the scientific research. Thus, meditation is real, whereas NLP is probably just a pseudo science that doesnâ€™t really deserve to be called a separate field. I have already obtained concrete results from meditation; whereas none of the NLP stuff I tried every worked.

MrPeabody wrote:I took one of the first Ross Jeffries courses many years ago, and had some limited success, and yes, I did get laid. When I look back at it, I think the two things that worked were 1) it gave me the self-confidence to at least try to approach a woman, since I believed in it at that time, and 2) his patterns gave enough material for extending a conversation on topics that women are generally interested in. I still think the embedded commands and hypnotism are baloney. If you want a more natural approach, I would suggest meditation. With meditation, it is possible to reprogram your mind so that you are not sensitive to rejection. This is the biggest obstacle for most men. You approach a woman and she rejects you. Then you feel anger, shame, etc. which cause real pain, reduces your mental tranquility and self-esteem. In other words, you have to approach a woman, under the duress of knowing she can hit you hard with a baseball and make it hurt. How can someone be themselves under those circumstances? Now imagine if you could remove that reactive programming from your unconscious, and a rejection would feel hardly noticeable. Now, instead of hitting you with a baseball, she can only hit you with a feather. Her ability to punish you has been taken away, and she becomes harmless. Under these circumstances, you will relax, become playful within the context of your real self, and not want to copy someone else who pretends to be successful. The key is to train your mind so that it is firm and stable under all external circumstances. This is the goal of meditation.

that's the fallacy about pickup

i don't think you got laid BECAUSE of ross jeffrey's teachings, you got laid because you simply approached more(thus increasing your odds) and giving credit all to jeffries teaching.

Sure, those NLP tools will help a little bit, but when it comes to complex human interaction it's way more complicated than that. You have to take into account other factors such as

1. how available she is
2. how high your standards are
3. how high her standards are
4. if she's looking for someone to f**k at that moment
5. how drunk she is
6. etc etc etc

, none of what you learned from RJ applies to you getting that lay, assuming that human interactino is complex. NLP isn't the magic pill that got you that lay, it's the fallacy of confidence you gave yourself when you applied his teachings......, when in reality, you already had that confidence to begin with, you just weren't applying it. Hence, you backwards rationalized that it's from "RJ's" teachings that got you that lay

You would have to do a controlled study to isolate all the variables, which, somehow, I doubt will ever be done. Just from my reflection on what happened, it did seem that the two factors I mentioned above were important. One lady was an ex beauty Queen, and I ran several hours of patterns with her over dinner after which she took me home and made the first move. Without the patterns, I would have ended up probably boring her to death. There was no alcohol involved. Scientists investigated NLP during the 80s, and none of the claims of NLP turned out to be true. In contrast, so far, every claim made by master mediators has been proven by the scientific research. Thus, meditation is real, whereas NLP is probably just a pseudo science that doesnâ€™t really deserve to be called a separate field. I have already obtained concrete results from meditation; whereas none of the NLP stuff I tried every worked.

Mr.Peabody

sorry to burst your bubble, but I will have to tell you a secret.

Human interaction is VERY VERY complex, simply running NLP patterns for them to f**k you is a black and white argument.

Maybe you were "CONFIDENT" at that time, thus you sub-communicated confidence/humour/intelligence. It's not the NLP pattern BULLSHIT that got you the girl, it's the underlying meaning in which you delivered it. If you delivered it in a very interesting/fun/confident way, then SHE views you as an interesting fun person... IT's not RJ's bullshit NLP pattern, it was the underlyiing meaning of the delivery that mattered. If NLp really worked, then EVERy pickup artist would be using it and getting laid from it. That's because it happened to work at that moment, doesn't equate it to WORKING in general, it was your confidence and interesting vibe that got you the girl, not the NLP patterns. THE NLP patterns just happened helpful tool for you to use at that moment... And even if NLP helped, You never really needed those NLP patterns to begin with, you can just talk about anything you want, and she would still probably f**k you because of your VIBE.

after 6,000 approaches, and suddently NLP patterns worked, beast on bro. IF NLP worked, then ross jeffries would be a millionaire right now.

Sexter wrote:
after 6,000 approaches, and suddently NLP patterns worked, beast on bro. IF NLP worked, then ross jeffries would be a millionaire right now.

Don't you think he's a millionaire by now? Isn't he one of the higher profile PUAs? A million dollars ain't that much in the States really. Just clear title on just one regular home in many west coast locals will get you there these days. One of his former students turned competitor - David D - is probably worth at least 20 - 30 million USD by now given the size of his franchises.

Sexter wrote:
after 6,000 approaches, and suddently NLP patterns worked, beast on bro. IF NLP worked, then ross jeffries would be a millionaire right now.

Don't you think he's a millionaire by now? Isn't he one of the higher profile PUAs? A million dollars ain't that much in the States really. Just clear title on just one regular home in many west coast locals will get you there these days. One of his former students turned competitor - David D - is probably worth at least 20 - 30 million USD by now given the size of his franchises.

your actually correct.

David D aka eben pagan is in-fact worth at least 20+ million. He got in the pickup industry at the perfect time(early 2000s) and the PUA market BOOMED. nowadays the PUA industry is over saturated. Despite that, it's still a multi-million dollar industry.

i'm sure RJ probably earned a million by now. Still, it's not directly connected to his NLP working, it's just a tool for guys who are socially inept or have nothing intereseting to say to girls that got ppl to invest.

I'm not saying NLP doesn't work, but you really don't NEED it to get girls. NLP is as useful as reading canned material from a MAGIC book.

MrPeabody wrote:I took one of the first Ross Jeffries courses many years ago, and had some limited success, and yes, I did get laid. When I look back at it, I think the two things that worked were 1) it gave me the self-confidence to at least try to approach a woman, since I believed in it at that time, and 2) his patterns gave enough material for extending a conversation on topics that women are generally interested in. I still think the embedded commands and hypnotism are baloney. If you want a more natural approach, I would suggest meditation. With meditation, it is possible to reprogram your mind so that you are not sensitive to rejection. This is the biggest obstacle for most men. You approach a woman and she rejects you. Then you feel anger, shame, etc. which cause real pain, reduces your mental tranquility and self-esteem. In other words, you have to approach a woman, under the duress of knowing she can hit you hard with a baseball and make it hurt. How can someone be themselves under those circumstances? Now imagine if you could remove that reactive programming from your unconscious, and a rejection would feel hardly noticeable. Now, instead of hitting you with a baseball, she can only hit you with a feather. Her ability to punish you has been taken away, and she becomes harmless. Under these circumstances, you will relax, become playful within the context of your real self, and not want to copy someone else who pretends to be successful. The key is to train your mind so that it is firm and stable under all external circumstances. This is the goal of meditation.

that's the fallacy about pickup

i don't think you got laid BECAUSE of ross jeffrey's teachings, you got laid because you simply approached more(thus increasing your odds) and giving credit all to jeffries teaching.

Sure, those NLP tools will help a little bit, but when it comes to complex human interaction it's way more complicated than that. You have to take into account other factors such as

1. how available she is
2. how high your standards are
3. how high her standards are
4. if she's looking for someone to f**k at that moment
5. how drunk she is
6. etc etc etc

, none of what you learned from RJ applies to you getting that lay, assuming that human interactino is complex. NLP isn't the magic pill that got you that lay, it's the fallacy of confidence you gave yourself when you applied his teachings......, when in reality, you already had that confidence to begin with, you just weren't applying it. Hence, you backwards rationalized that it's from "RJ's" teachings that got you that lay

You would have to do a controlled study to isolate all the variables, which, somehow, I doubt will ever be done. Just from my reflection on what happened, it did seem that the two factors I mentioned above were important. One lady was an ex beauty Queen, and I ran several hours of patterns with her over dinner after which she took me home and made the first move. Without the patterns, I would have ended up probably boring her to death. There was no alcohol involved. Scientists investigated NLP during the 80s, and none of the claims of NLP turned out to be true. In contrast, so far, every claim made by master mediators has been proven by the scientific research. Thus, meditation is real, whereas NLP is probably just a pseudo science that doesnâ€™t really deserve to be called a separate field. I have already obtained concrete results from meditation; whereas none of the NLP stuff I tried every worked.

Mr.Peabody

sorry to burst your bubble, but I will have to tell you a secret.

Human interaction is VERY VERY complex, simply running NLP patterns for them to f**k you is a black and white argument.

Maybe you were "CONFIDENT" at that time, thus you sub-communicated confidence/humour/intelligence. It's not the NLP pattern BULLSHIT that got you the girl, it's the underlying meaning in which you delivered it. If you delivered it in a very interesting/fun/confident way, then SHE views you as an interesting fun person... IT's not RJ's bullshit NLP pattern, it was the underlyiing meaning of the delivery that mattered. If NLp really worked, then EVERy pickup artist would be using it and getting laid from it. That's because it happened to work at that moment, doesn't equate it to WORKING in general, it was your confidence and interesting vibe that got you the girl, not the NLP patterns. THE NLP patterns just happened helpful tool for you to use at that moment... And even if NLP helped, You never really needed those NLP patterns to begin with, you can just talk about anything you want, and she would still probably f**k you because of your VIBE.

after 6,000 approaches, and suddently NLP patterns worked, beast on bro. IF NLP worked, then ross jeffries would be a millionaire right now.

I think i wrote this before on another thread. When i was 21 i would just flat out tell a woman she was sexy and how i wanted to just f**k her or eat her p***y or something like that. I got mad p***y just by being direct.
American women fall for over the top bullshit like this. For many of them when you start talking decent and respectful you will get no kind of play.

ErikHeaven wrote:I think i wrote this before on another thread. When i was 21 i would just flat out tell a woman she was sexy and how i wanted to just f**k her or eat her p***y or something like that. I got mad p***y just by being direct.
American women fall for over the top bullshit like this. For many of them when you start talking decent and respectful you will get no kind of play.

Â¡Â¡Jajajajaja!! You are mad funny, budd. It's foul that one has to be so crass just to f**k Ameriskankish swine. When one is a gentleman, he is deemed to be gay or one whom spends more time in the mirror than the chick does and so on and so forth.

"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

There really isn't a central PUA dogma, so the thing to do is take out the stuff that makes sense and is useful, and ignore the nonsense. For example, the Mystery method recommends preparing stories of yourself of things that happened with you, your friends, and your family, etc. Now, from whatever source this comes from, this is excellent advice, because women are relationship oriented and actually love hearing this stuff. Now you have it for free and don't have to spend a dime. Also, his advice about manipulating the situation to not appear to easy to get is excellent, because this is again basic human psychology. Women as well as men lose interest if there isn't a challenge.

I previously mentioned that I did have some limited success with these techniques many years ago, including a girlfriend who was an authentic beauty queen. The technique that worked the best was "handwriting analysis". I actually studied and got a certificate in handwriting analysis. I would start analyzing one woman's handwriting and end up surrounded by women in a bar wanting their handwriting analyzed. Now, men consider this to be stupid. But, the fact is that women go crazy over these kind of things. A lot of this is just recognizing that women and men are different, and giving the women more of what they want. Remember, what you consider stupid, a woman may be interested in.

Forgetting the label "PUA", I still would encourage men to think about this consciously and come up with their own system. Because, you want to be attractive to women and master their psychology, give them what they want, but remain dominant and in control. It will be even more important to you when you are married. And getting a foreign woman really doesn't help, because women are women. I mentioned that I was married to a Colombian woman, and will not go into details of the head games and what can happen when you aren't always the master of the situation. So, don't give up, because it is difficult, because all worthy results require great effort.

Looking back at it, I think that for me, the key ingredient that was missing was meditation. For one thing, if you practice a concentrative meditation routine, it was calm your mind and naturally change your body language. The body language is probably at least 90% of what signals to a woman whether she is interested in you or wants to run - and this will happen in the first five seconds. I was way to nervous and anxious when I was younger, and had bad body language. I would recommend that as part of your routine, you put mind training first and meditate before you even think of approaching women. Last week, I went to the US to get my mail, and one girl smiled at me when I walked by and another actually said "hello". I believe it was due to my softened body language which was a result of my intensive meditation practice.

Also, approaching women is important to eliminate approach anxiety. But, don't do this until you first have trained your mind, and can enter the proper state. It's vital that you only be concerned about your success in approaching her and not care about the outcome. You have to accept any response from her as valid, even the nasty stuff. You really don't know what kind of energy you are giving off and she might just be afraid. Also, you need to look at it from a spiritual point of view, that you are giving a gift and don't expect anything in return. If you have this state of mind, you can approach women and reduce your approach anxiety without harming yourself psychologically.