I just want to be clear, I'm not using this thread to build an agenda against Smith. I already have my case, and you know what it is. You happen to disagree with it, that's fine.

Fun Gus said earlier in this thread that he isn't looking to fire Mike Smith, he's just tired of seeing the same stuff happen over and over.

In this case, I don't think that we are all in agreement that playing Roddy was a mistake. Some people seem to be saying that it was not a mistake. If they agreed with Fun Gus, I doubt that we'd have 3 pages of discussion. Maybe I'm reading some of these posts wrong. <shrug>

Sweet Jesus if I was not in north Georgia in leiderhosen getting ready Tplay polkas I would ap aww f****

Son, to quote my great, great grandma, "You's about f**** up as a football bat."

Fun Gus said earlier in this thread that he isn't looking to fire Mike Smith, he's just tired of seeing the same stuff happen over and over.

Yet less than a week after making those statements, he starts a thread that suggests that Smitty be fired if the Falcons lose their next two games.And you're always building your case. Thus why the "beef" with the "excuse-making."

untrue. I said if we lose twice to the Buccs and Panthers. Its already a foregone conclusion were going to lose twice to the Saints. And I also said not if the reason we go 0=6 is due to Ryan injury...

Pudge says the thing that would make him consider firing Smith is if he lost the team. If we cant squeak out one win against this Buccs team, he has 'lost' them. But if we go 0-6, and I suggest firing Smitty, I am absolutely certain Paudge will find another excuse

I just want to be clear, I'm not using this thread to build an agenda against Smith. I already have my case, and you know what it is. You happen to disagree with it, that's fine.

Fun Gus said earlier in this thread that he isn't looking to fire Mike Smith, he's just tired of seeing the same stuff happen over and over.

In this case, I don't think that we are all in agreement that playing Roddy was a mistake. Some people seem to be saying that it was not a mistake. If they agreed with Fun Gus, I doubt that we'd have 3 pages of discussion. Maybe I'm reading some of these posts wrong. <shrug>

Sweet Jesus if I was not in north Georgia in leiderhosen getting ready Tplay polkas I would ap aww f****

Son, to quote my great, great grandma, "You's about f**** up as a football bat."

Fun Gus said earlier in this thread that he isn't looking to fire Mike Smith, he's just tired of seeing the same stuff happen over and over.

Yet less than a week after making those statements, he starts a thread that suggests that Smitty be fired if the Falcons lose their next two games.And you're always building your case. Thus why the "beef" with the "excuse-making."

untrue. I said if we lose twice to the Buccs and Panthers. Its already a foregone conclusion were going to lose twice to the Saints. And I also said not if the reason we go 0=6 is due to Ryan injury...

Pudge says the thing that would make him consider firing Smith is if he lost the team. If we cant squeak out one win against this Buccs team, he has 'lost' them. But if we go 0-6, and I suggest firing Smitty, I am absolutely certain Paudge will find another excuse

The Falcons stink this year. Losing to the Bucs doesn't mean that Smitty has lost the team. It just means that the Falcons are a worse team than we thought. We've been operating under the assumption for the past few weeks that the Falcons are a bit better than their record indicates because they've been very close to winning all 4 of their losses. All of which came against teams with winning records. But if the Falcons lose to the Bucs, then they are simply a bad team.

It doesn't mean that Smitty has lost anybody. Especially when the Bucs despite being winless have a Top 5 defense, just like the Jets defense that we played in Week 5. But the Falcons are much more depleted offensively than they were vs. the Jets. Thus the team will need the running game and the defense to step up. If they don't this week, it doesn't mean that Smitty has lost them. The Falcons run defense was 29th last year, and is 26th this year. Their defense was average last year thanks to being healthy and opportunistic. Now they are beat up and not creating very many turnovers, and thus they are getting exposed as bad.

To beat the Bucs, the Falcons have to play uncharacteristic football than what we've seen thus far this year. If that doesn't happen, then Smitty hasn't lost the team. When they face the Panthers, they'll face another Top 5 defense, with one that can dominate our weak OL with their dominant front 7. And if the Falcons let Cam Newton do the things he has normally done against our defense, then there's no way the Falcons win that game.

They could have easily gone 0-6 in the division last year, and they are a MUCH WORSE football team this year!

It's not about losing the team, it's about whether Mike Smith is a good enough coach to get this team to circle the wagons and play above their talent level for the rest of the year. If he's not, then I know there are plenty of people around here that believe that the Falcons must go out and find someone that is. But frankly, I'm sure that there is a coach that is capable of that outside Massachusetts. There's always next year. And maybe this terrible season leads to teh Falcons front office opening up their eyes that their complacency the past two off-seasons was the wrong approach, and instead of adding a little to supplement the roster, they really get back into the trenches and opt to significantly revamp this roster.

The Smithsonians are going to have to wake up sooner or later. Roddy's loss should have Smitty's feet on fire and his a$$ should be on the hot seat. But, no one asks Smith the difficult questions and everyone defends dumb decision-making.

No, I could have been posting every single day on this subject; it was stupid not to sit Roddy for at least 2 games at the start of the season!! Go back and look and I said I didn't give a crap about Roddy's streak. Some mistakes are more obvious to me so I just figured this f***-up was cut & dried!!

However I can't help that I disagree with you about the Abe injury. I think their is quite a bit of difference.

I can't help that I disagree agree with you firing Smith; we're not close to the team that started the season!! Yes I think Roddy is directly on Smith; and I also think giving special treatment to Tony G. is all on Smith..... You just don't play favorites to working out vs. vacations!!

I keep saying I'll take myself out of this thread, but I don't like it when someone says " EVERYBODY" is making excuses for Coach Smith. I'm not!! I do think he has made more progress with less talent than most coaches in the previous years!!

He's just screwed this year and part of his own making. (For one person); and I think letting Tony G. out of practice is unthinkable and I haven't read much about that!!

Lets not start putting the BRAVES AND Hawks into this discussion. it still comes down to you start all over or stay with a winner? I don't even agree with Pudge that Coach Smith needs to prove he can circle the wagons?? Prove it with what?? We don't even have any wagons left!!

I think you'll see improvement as some guys come back..... Roddy as John O' and maybe others said isn't even dressing Sunday so their is no doubt their was a big mistake!! I just think that big mistake was in game 1 and after that Roddy was screwed.

Even the reasoning that players should perhaps take a bigger role in their health; IMO its not when you think your ready; its only if your not ready to play and the coach thinks otherwise.

In summary I believe that if you've proven you can win for 5 years; you get a pass once every 5 years. If we keep losing next year I'll be in agreement that Thomas D. should go and a new General Manager can decide what he wants.

The 3 pages is over folks arguing should Roddy sit for the Jets or for other games. Hell he should never had started the season, and once he started it he was screwed.

Not dressing tomorrow is proof positive that Roddy was not handled properly AND I think I have a great case that Tony G. getting off from practice sent a terrible message to the team.

People make mistakes; that's not an excuse; its a fact!! So if Arthur just wants to feel better about this year he can fire everybody. If he wants a proven winner at both GM. and Coach to learn from this year; then just let Arthur understand that no one can coach a team with all average players hurt.

Some cities go decades without having a playoff game; and we've had 4 in 5 years. That's reason enough to keep him IMO. IF Coach Smith only had 3 winning season's in 5 years that's a lot different from 5 winning season's in a row!!

Ps. Maybe Coach Smith hasn't learned from all of his mistakes; but I bet he's learned from 80% of them. I don't really know how many mistakes he made when he was a first year coach??

Your avoid the Facts with bringing the Braves into this topic. This isn't baseball where good pitching usually beats good hitting.

I'd sincerely like to know why 5 winning seasons straight; makes you think Smith should be fired; when in our 62 years when he got here; we never had two winning season's in a row??

I make a detailed post why Mike Smith has made two crucial mistakes; and all I get is a Braves picture??

I totally think the Roddy deal is on Coach Mike Smith!! If he'd been average and ordinary that would be different. Hell if Coach Smith has met an assistant Gm I wouldn't cry if we got someone else; and if the Gm made a coaching change so be it. (But I think that would be the worst thing.) Ok so by your responses you want perfection forever. That's not happening now or with any team. Usually the better the Qb the better the team.

I'd like to go 100% defense and Ryan has enough weapons to get it done next year!! After drafts and free agents!! I'm trying to be serious and I do see things from your point of view......But part of me thinks you really just want a new coach. Just check out how Campbell, Henning, Reeves; did their first year. Then look at how Mora called a radio station to say he would take an opening during our season, then Petrino just f**** us!!

I don't even know why I'm writing when you've been so rude and not discussing your logic;the point is that If you don't think he's a good coach; the facts just don't show that at all!!

Pudge is right I guess; your showing you just want him fired and you'll want the next 4 fired too !! I don't understand it without better impute from you. Coach didn't help us with Roddy; but all the other 6 or 7 injuries just happened....

We had about 6-7 open positions so I figured we'd have a bad team; sorry you didn't realize it either.

I'd sincerely like to know why 5 winning seasons straight; makes you think Smith should be fired; when in our 62 years when he got here; we never had two winning season's in a row??.

I dont know why this is so difficult for people to understand.

As long as we can squeek out one win vs the Buccs, Saints or Panthers, Mike Smith is in no danger of me calling for him to be fired. That is a pretty low bar. a ridiculously low bar.

I dont expect to be coming back here saying this, though, because I have faith that Mike Smith can take this battered team and motivate them to a win, at least one win, against the Buccs. I can understand losing two to the Saints. I wont like it, but I can also understand losing two to the Panthers. BUt to go 0-6 as long as Matt Ryan is upright: this to me tells me that this team is more then just 'unlucky'. At that point SOMEONE has got to be held responsible.

But, even if we lose today, I still think we can squeek out a win Nov 17th, and to be honest, I really don't think we lose today.

I'll apologise for the Braves retort, I was just being sarcastic. There always seemed to be a culture with the Braves ( and with ATL sports in general) where just getting to the playoffs was enough. Everyone always made excuses for Bobby Cox' postseason blunders, and that used to drive me nuts. But that shouldn't be the case with the Falcons, at least I hope not.

and I also think giving special treatment to Tony G. is all on Smith..... You just don't play favorites to working out vs. vacations!!... I think letting Tony G. out of practice is unthinkable and I haven't read much about that!!

You're not reading about it, because outside you and bnb, I don't think anybody agrees with you.

Who cares if Tony G missed 2 weeks of training camp. Do you honestly think some player was grumbling that Tony Gonzalez got 2 weeks off from practice, and it upset to the team chemistry. You think Thomas DeCoud is missing tackles because he's upset that he didn't get to go home to California for 2 weeks in August. Do you think Matt Ryan was grumbling?

Do you think Tony Gonzalez had suddenly lost the rapport with Ryan that he had built from 4 years.

Playing favorites? You mean like letting all the 30+ year old players get a day off from practice for the past 5 years? I could probably count on 1 hand how many times Todd McClure, Gonzo, and Abe practiced on Wednesdays combined from 2009-12. That's not playing favorites? You're telling me that the "Over 30 Club" never was a disruption to team chemistry, but suddenly the leader of the Over 30 Club getting 2 weeks off in training camp is?

Yeah, I think you would have a case if it was any other player besides Tony Gonzalez. That's like saying that John Harbaugh is wrong for giving Ray Lewis special treatment. Of course he does, he's Ray F-ing Lewis. He gets special treatment not only from the coaching staff, but the other players in that locker room as well.

Saying that Tony Gonzalez shouldn't have gotten special treatment is really a silly argument to make. The fact that Tony Gonzalez missed 2 weeks of training camp had nothing to do with Steven Jackson dropping that ball in the end zone vs. the Saints, or Tony dropping that ball. Or Harry Douglas fumbling that punt vs. Miami or Joplo Bartu getting burnt in coverage vs. Charles Clay. Or Roddy White dropping that ball vs. NE, etc.

I get that a player basically dictating that he will return to them if you let him get 2 weeks off in camp is not the ideal way of handling a player...in a vacuum. But in the case of Tony Gonzalez and this Falcon team, I think that is BS and this is an exception to that rule.

Sure no problem......Your a respected member on this site and certainly handle your emotionsbetter than me. I just wanted you to know you weren't the only one who thought Roddy should have never started the season.

To Pudge: Its more of the feeling Coach Smith gave the team that playoffs was a certainty thisyear. It was the attitude of the team and the fans when we just had to many open positions.

Sure no one upset; with Tony G. playing again this year then this year would be last year all over but better. Tony has proved he didn't need the work; but the team has played the regular season with the emotion of the preseason. At this point it really doesn't matter; butI still think its a mistake....... I just don't want this organization to fire a 5 straight season winning coach for having a bad season. I think we'll win at least six and regroup next year with both Thomas D. and Coach Smith acting like their starting over but they won't be, not even close to starting over....... I really think this year exposes what Coach Smith has been winning with; and shows that Thomas D. needs more good picks. I think this years 1 & 2 willbe excellent players.

and I also think giving special treatment to Tony G. is all on Smith..... You just don't play favorites to working out vs. vacations!!... I think letting Tony G. out of practice is unthinkable and I haven't read much about that!!

You're not reading about it, because outside you and bnb, I don't think anybody agrees with you.

Who cares if Tony G missed 2 weeks of training camp. Do you honestly think some player was grumbling that Tony Gonzalez got 2 weeks off from practice, and it upset to the team chemistry. You think Thomas DeCoud is missing tackles because he's upset that he didn't get to go home to California for 2 weeks in August. Do you think Matt Ryan was grumbling?

Do you think Tony Gonzalez had suddenly lost the rapport with Ryan that he had built from 4 years.

Playing favorites? You mean like letting all the 30+ year old players get a day off from practice for the past 5 years? I could probably count on 1 hand how many times Todd McClure, Gonzo, and Abe practiced on Wednesdays combined from 2009-12. That's not playing favorites? You're telling me that the "Over 30 Club" never was a disruption to team chemistry, but suddenly the leader of the Over 30 Club getting 2 weeks off in training camp is?

Yeah, I think you would have a case if it was any other player besides Tony Gonzalez. That's like saying that John Harbaugh is wrong for giving Ray Lewis special treatment. Of course he does, he's Ray F-ing Lewis. He gets special treatment not only from the coaching staff, but the other players in that locker room as well.

Saying that Tony Gonzalez shouldn't have gotten special treatment is really a silly argument to make. The fact that Tony Gonzalez missed 2 weeks of training camp had nothing to do with Steven Jackson dropping that ball in the end zone vs. the Saints, or Tony dropping that ball. Or Harry Douglas fumbling that punt vs. Miami or Joplo Bartu getting burnt in coverage vs. Charles Clay. Or Roddy White dropping that ball vs. NE, etc.

I get that a player basically dictating that he will return to them if you let him get 2 weeks off in camp is not the ideal way of handling a player...in a vacuum. But in the case of Tony Gonzalez and this Falcon team, I think that is BS and this is an exception to that rule.

P, that is a ridiculously long answer to a largely straw man point. Come on, do you really like listening to yourself talk that much? Did anyone suggest that the situation with TG caused that stuff? I'll say this, as much as I love Tony--and what football fan wouldn't--I would have probably been happier if we had let him walk off into the sunset, not sign Jackson, not sign Osi and never mention SB or Bust and just accepted that we were rebuilding and competing on the fly just like NE typically does. However, given that we did do all these things I think allowing that Favre -like situation to come about sent a message that we would have time to get a running start in the first few weeks of the season (not the pre-season) and that our embarrassment of riches would carry the day for us rather than traditional spit and polish. Yes, players still have to make plays and TG did not cause Toilio to drop a sure TD but even players such as Roddy spoke about the team lacking a "sense of urgency." Tony's situation is more a symptom than a cause albeit a particularly conspicuous one. Tony is clearly playing better now than he was the first couple of weeks and in games that come down to two or three plays--as so many do--this is not irrelevant. For the record, I don't want to fire MS, put TG in stocks in the town square, I liked Bobby Cox and will be glad to contribute to Paypal to fund Cyril's meds.

For the record, I don't want to fire MS, put TG in stocks in the town square, I liked Bobby Cox and will be glad to contribute to Paypal to fund Cyril's meds.

BnB..Why do you want to fire Mike Smith, again?

As much as I 'hate' to admit it ( c'mon, TG bitch-boy here ) I do have to give some creedence to the point : it's not that 'are we better without Tony G', but if he HAD at least spent a little more time, say a week, 5-10 days with Coffman, Tolilio he might have helped them more. Joe Horn took Roddy and (think back ) he helped him, and a big part of that was 'camp'. You guys know, I am a T G fan, but the truth is, if he wanted to come back, he really should not have stayed out that long. It's not like we needed him for 'conditioning', but he could ahev hung out and 'mentored'. Who do you think is going to tell him to go run sprints? Really? He should have been there selling his nutiriment byproduct/whatevs and telling Tololioloio how to beat a practice team guy.

If you're saying that Mike Smith letting Tony get 2 weeks off is a symptom of the complacency (now where have I heard that before?) this entire organization has had the past few years in regards to their success, then I agree 100% with you. But the suggestion that Mike Smith dropped the ball on that decision and saying that was a "big deal" (as I recall Cyril saying at one point in time), to me is like cherry picking similar to fun gus implying that John Abraham's Week 17 injury was what kept the Falcons out of the Super Bowl.

But Tony Gonzalez getting 2 weeks off in a year that should never be since he retired, is very far down the totem pole. Like Item #428. You wanted Tony to stick around and help develop Coffman and Toilolo? Okay, well maybe we should have had Tony have the option of developing players like Jordan Cameron and Julius Thomas (both 4th round picks in 2011, oh wait, we didn't have a 4th round pick that year!), both former college B-ball players like him, now emerging into 2 of the better TEs in the NFL, instead of wasting his time with slow-ass Michael Palmer.

What is happening to the Falcons now is exactly what happened to them in 2011, when they had the exact same attitude with thinking with the additions of Julio Jones & Ray Edwards, they would pick up where they left off in 2010, as the NFC's best team and just roll through the regular season and be better situated for the playoffs. They did it again with signing S-Jax & Osi, and I won't lie I fell into the trap too.

backnblack wrote:

I would have probably been happier if we had let him walk off into the sunset, not sign Jackson, not sign Osi and never mention SB or Bust and just accepted that we were rebuilding and competing on the fly just like NE typically does. However, given that we did do all these things I think allowing that Favre -like situation to come about sent a message that we would have time to get a running start in the first few weeks of the season (not the pre-season) and that our embarrassment of riches would carry the day for us rather than traditional spit and polish.

You gotta respect Ozzie Newsome because he blew up the Ravens. And while most would look at the Ravens now and say that was a mistake given their inconsistency, but those people would be forgetting that the Ravens looked the exact same way in last year's regular season: good at home, terrible on the road, and won a Super Bowl akin to the 2007 Giants because they happened to play 4 really good games in the postseason.

I wish the Falcons were willing to do that. But they're not, because Arthur Blank wants a Super Bowl yesterday, and TD is all about retaining the core and drafting for need which leads to a bunch of stopgaps rather than real upgrades to the talent of the roster.

It was stated last January that the Falcons would be smart to revamp/upgrade their running game and pass rush. Yet, they decided to get an over the hill RB and DE and think that would be enough. Meanwhile a team like Seattle goes out and signs Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett for pennies on the dollar and currently have the league's 2nd best pass rush (only eclipsed by the Chiefs). That is a much bigger issue than anything that has involved Gonzo's workload.

If you're saying that Mike Smith letting Tony get 2 weeks off is a symptom of the complacency (now where have I heard that before?) this entire organization has had the past few years in regards to their success, then I agree 100% with you.

Yes and I may have said it was a big deal, or since I don't remember I'll just say I said that!! You have to remember I thought that at that time----we were already going Super Bowl or bust; however TODAY it is number 428.

I thought it pushed a tone I wasn't positive was there; You were already saying that and it scocked me to the feelings I use to have.

A complete feeling as you said in preseason that we were almost sure to fight for the playoffs. Witch is not a feeling a team with our holes should have. I always think its a new seasonbecause of my 38 years of being a season ticket holder (I'm not anymore) we're probably 20games under .500 for me watching games; and Bennett, Glanville; Mora & Petreno and Smith have always had times when "it was our turn"..... and there's no such thing.

I've also pointed out that all coaches make mistakes and obviously its the poor lack of depth; and incredible injuries all at one time, that really hurt us. So I thought it was a team mistake at the time; but I've said more than once it doesn't matter now. I'm probably a bigger Coach Smith fan than you (not sure) but he's not going to go a year without making some mistakes. Heck maybe I was wrong, but don't think so--That all........

Ps. I've maybe come back from the dark side (: I now realize I need those meds and can't stop them just because I have a good month. I stocked up because I didn't want to get sent to Germany (:

I thought that we were going to have a decent year, and I still believe that's possible. I was trying to have a bit of confidence that the front office wasn't out of their minds starting Reynolds and Johnson on the right side of the line. Johnson got hurt, Holmes looked like doo doo on the right side, and Reynolds spends half of the game on his back these days. I still have faith that Konz will eventually be good to go. Holmes might even be serviceable as a LT. But Reynolds is simply out of position... Why did we decide that he is a guard? He sure seems to be a tackle to me, yet we seemingly have no interest in him playing OT.

I KNEW that there would be growing pains on the defensive side of the ball. Those pains got a lot worse when Biermann and Weatherspoon went down. I said at the beginning of the year that if these guys can weather the first half of the season, they should start looking like a functional unit by the end of the year. I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be the case. Four rookie starters on the defensive side of the ball... They should get better.

The defensive line is still a mess. Clowney or Barr should help with that. Nix could also be a huge help if we decide to go 3-4, which I really think would be the most intelligent decision that this front office could make considering how poor it has been at finding 4-3 DEs.

The defense really should get better and they are probably already faster....they just need to know where to run to!

There's also hope for Holmes and Company. It's just a simple fact that the team had to go green. I was, frankly, a little more bothered by the fact when they didn't. Someone posted on the Roost the stat that through week 7 0f 2012 there were 84 season ending injuries whereas this year 124 league wide.

It is still possible for a decent year....I'm still having a hard time finding it with the overall play of the Bucs on Sunday. I hate the last part of our schedule but if we can beat Carolina twice that could really help.

Yes the right side of the line has been puzzling....I mean it seemed Hawley was the " can't miss" back-up and Johnson has been given many chances to show something? Maybe they'll let Baker try the right side but I don't see better results. I agree on Knoz, maybe not all pro but a consistent starter. The problem with Konz right now is; when the guard on your left is screwed up; it hurts the center, when the guard on the right is not playing good it screws the center; so basically Konz looks much worse than he's playing.

Yes Reynolds at right guard is a trial that should stop unless (if he's somehow getting better) and then I'd need new glasses too (:

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