I figured we would need this thread eventually. This is for talking about the game in general.

I will be waiting for the 3ds version to play it, but I want to see some opinions in the meantime. I also have a question which will probably not be answered until some people here complete the game...

Spoiler: Early game spoilers

Other than the mention of Lucy at the start, does the game have more references to Layton Brothers: Mystery room?

I figured we would need this thread eventually. This is for talking about the game in general.

I will be waiting for the 3ds version to play it, but I want to see some opinions in the meantime. I also have a question which will probably not be answered until some people here complete the game...

Spoiler: Early game spoilers

Other than the mention of Lucy at the start, does the game have more references to Layton Brothers: Mystery room?

I like to think I am not overly negative about video games usually, but I was extremely disappointed in this game. It had the several mini cases style of Azran Legacy (which I was not fond of), but further compounded by each case being extremely short and generally uninteresting. On that note, a more minor complaint but since they game was mostly just set in generic London, it lacked the unique and gorgeous locales that I so heavily associate Layton games with. Being the first game in a new Layton subseries, I was really hoping the new characters would keep me interested, but while some of then were charming, particularly Sherl, I found myself quite bored with them at best. Maybe if they make more games my opinion will change, as it took me a long time to warm up to Luke, but I was still hoping they would have done better. In addition, the game's attempt at a cool final case was just... extremely underwhelming and even more out of nowhere than Azran Legacy's climax. As a final note, the puzzles were generally... pretty bad. A lot of repetition and in general they were almost shockingly easy. It is really a sad state of affairs, I wanted to like this game, but there were just too many glaring issues.

Got the game on iOS, finished chapter 3. This is my first Layton game.

Spoiler:

I love the puzzles, though the kissing one was awful. I assembled it correctly but the symbols were marginally too far apart for the game to accept it.For me every case so far has a disappointing resolution. Katrielle solves the case by revealing something she knew, and not the player. I hear it's a common theme in Layton games, and Layton himself did this in PLvsPW. Ace Attorney, on the other hand, has you explain your reasoning through the case, so it feels like you and the playable character ended up at the conclusion together (the majority of the time, at least, but overall, solving mysteries is better in Ace Attorney from what I've seen in this game so far).Edit: On chapter 9 and still waiting for the plot to kick in.

My first thought was, "That's it?" Was the Richmond case really the last one? We're not going to find Hershel or even figure out the mystery with Sherl? Honestly, I'm confused. Am I missing something?I don't think I'll be getting into Layton games if they're all like this. I thought the ending was unsatisfying, and I don't like how the game deliberately withholds information so the case resolution is as surprising as possible. All I'm doing is watch Layton solve a mystery, rather than me doing the solving.All I like about this game are the puzzles.

My first thought was, "That's it?" Was the Richmond case really the last one? We're not going to find Hershel or even figure out the mystery with Sherl? Honestly, I'm confused. Am I missing something?

I'm pretty sure this game was made with a sequel (possibly even a trilogy) in mind. So you probably won't find out the answers to those two mysteries (especially the one with

Spoiler:

Hershel)

until much later, if those games get made, that is.

MBr wrote:

I don't think I'll be getting into Layton games if they're all like this.

They really aren't. LMJ is very similar in its approach to Layton Brothers: Mystery Room, in which there are multiple individual mini cases. The Professor Layton games have one major self-contained mystery in each game, so at the end you don't really feel unsatisfied; or if you do, it's for a different reason. As for actually solving the mysteries yourself... Well, you kinda don't. So that's similar. You can try to solve the mysteries yourself (the games do give you clues...) but except for Miracle Mask, the answers are, um, really out there; so they're not really something you can think of yourself, with or without the clues. I remember when Layton explained the reasoning behind the mystery in Diabolical Box, he kinda just pulled answers out of his ass and I'm like "...How did you come up with that?"

And if you liked the puzzles in Mystery Journey, you'll love the puzzles in the Professor Layton games. The ones in LMJ were too easy. I understand that Akira Tago passed away, but his you actually had to use your mind, and could even get stuck for hours on a puzzle. Whoever did the puzzles in LMJ tried, but, meh, not that challenging, imo.

They really aren't. LMJ is very similar in its approach to Layton Brothers: Mystery Room, in which there are multiple individual mini cases. The Professor Layton games have one major self-contained mystery in each game, so at the end you don't really feel unsatisfied; or if you do, it's for a different reason. As for actually solving the mysteries yourself... Well, you kinda don't. So that's similar. You can try to solve the mysteries yourself (the games do give you clues...) but except for Miracle Mask, the answers are, um, really out there; so they're not really something you can think of yourself, with or without the clues. I remember when Layton explained the reasoning behind the mystery in Diabolical Box, he kinda just pulled answers out of his ass and I'm like "...How did you come up with that?"

I'd say this game is kind of a hybrid. It has the case by case thing of Layton Brothers but I would say LB had better mysteries overall imo. This game's mysteries have been pretty easy to figure out so far. Especially the second case. I figured it out 2/3rds of the way through and the ending was really unsatisfying. I'd much rather have Hershel pull something out of his ass than already know the twist. They don't even give the player a chance to be involved in the climax. Plus, I felt that LB was much more darker in its cases but...this game is really reaching for the 'crimes' so far. I dunno, I'm not a fan of that. The puzzles, as Blizdi said, are pathetically easy. On the level of the AA crossover. I'm a bit disappointed.

Also, I really don't like Sherl. All he does is gawk at the twist of each case and make fun of everyone. It gets old reeeallly fast. On the plus side, everyone's indifference to him is great.

Yeah, so far...I'm indifferent to this game. Just like most Layton games go.

Yes, I do like Mystery Room over the others. Mainly due to its different style and such. Unwound Future had a pretty great story, and the AA crossover is great just for the courtroom parts. Miracle Mask also had some nice segmentation and mystery. I'd say Diabolical Box is alright for its nice environments and also the nonsensical twist at the end. Curious Village is an okay game, for the first I guess. Lost Spectre was the same but more boring. Azran Legacy, I only remember the ending. Everything else was just forgettable.

It's...alright. There's some good, some bad, and some REALLY bad. Let's start with the good.

The writing is great. Very enjoyable, and they nailed the bantering down well. Ernest got a bit annoying at times, but I thoroughly enjoyed Katrielle, Sherl, Hastings, and Emiliana.

Specific point for Kat. At first I thought she'd just be a peppy cheerleader type of protagonist, but she's actually a lot like Maya in some sense. Big personality, doesn't back down to anyone, lets her own thoughts be known (She had a few sick burns in the game) and her frickin huge appetite.

A few of the cases were actually pretty good. I really enjoyed the Bank Robbery, Ratman, and the Cruise ship.

The voice acting was solid. The only ones that really bothered me were Barnone's and Bianca Teller's (Seriously, what the hell was Teller's VA? I was half-laughing at it)

Music is pretty good too.

I'm not a huge fan of name puns, but "Leonardo DiCameo" is fucking amazing.

Now, the bad.

The main thing people want to know is the cases. Well, although I enjoyed a few of them, most of them are either mediocre or rather poor. Usually the twist is either incredibly easy to predict (Cases 2, 5, 10, 11) or just completely WTF (1, 3, 4, 12). Case 9 falls in the middle as a case that's not really easy to predict, but it's also INCREDIBLY low stakes.

As an example for an easy to predict solution, let's look at case 2. Two people are presumed dead, one being pushed into the Thames and one jumping in on her own will. It also happens to line up with a the legend of the Thames where the exact same thing happened. At first, it seems like a complex PW-esque case. But once you see how not-worried the Mayor is, and that the victims are actors, it's blatantly obvious that it was faked. When you learn that the reception to a yearly festival increased because of the stunt, it becomes even more obvious.

For an example of completely WTF, let's look at the first case. The hour hand of Big Ben has gone missing in the night. At first, it seems like an interesting crime. You find out that the hour hand was fixed last night, there's been a series of metal thefts around town, the hour hand is worth lots of money, and a blueprint of the hour hand in the mechanic's twin's bakery. This baker twin is also good at creating beautiful replicas out of dessert. The solution seems pretty clear: The brothers stole the metal, created a new "hour" hand, and made off with the valuable one. However, they hit a snag in preparing the new hour hand, and now it's missing. Everything seems to fall into place, but then the REAL solution comes in. Turns out, the mechanic broke the old hour hand when fixing it, and his brother made a fake one out of wafer to replace it. It then melted in the rain, making a wafer puddle below the tower and creating the "missing hour hand" mystery. Not only does the player not learn of the wafer puddle until all the "clues" are found, but the metal thefts have NOTHING to do with the case! At all! I shit you not, the game even says they're unrelated. So why even put them there?!

Another major complaint I have with the cases is that they all have to end in a "happy ending". Hour hand theft? Nah, that was just a brother helping his other brother. Double murder/suicide? Nah, it was just to increase the popularity of the mayor's beloved festival. Haunted house? Nah, just a girl wanting to make friends. Kat framed for murder? Nah, that was just a guy coming up from poor origins trying to become the best like he's always wanted. Every case ends with some sort of happy ending, and it gets old FAST. At the very least, in the other Layton games more often than not the "bad guy" was still in the wrong. That doesn't happen here. Ever. Not even in the last case.

Speaking of the last case, the ending SUCKS. You come into the game with two big mysteries: Why the hell can Sherl talk? And where the hell is Professor Layton? Well, guess what: YOU DON'T ANSWER EITHER! Both go unsolved, blatantly setting up a sequel (Probably next year's game). I haven't seen such massive unsolved mysteries in either a Layton game or Ace Attorney game. Sure, both have had unsolved mysteries (Who's Descole? Where is Misty Fey?) but neither ever took center stage. These both do. Both are clearly referenced multiple times, making it feel like a big lead-up. But neither ever appears. Heck, even the official description of the game says "will she ever be able to find her missing father?". When the final culprit is revealed, there's a small sad ending scene, a good ol' "Don't worry you're not in trouble we still love you" scene, and then it just...ends. The game just stops. It's ridiculous.

The puzzles more often than not are just miserable. I've never seen a Layton game have this many bad puzzles before. Some are just stupid easy, some are stupid hard, and some are stupid confusing. Like this one: You're told that a beast is on the loose, and you need to find it! The words "London" are below, and you have to remove lines on the letters to find the answer. What's that, you ask? You want to know what you're supposed to be looking for? Well, the game doesn't even tell you! It only says "find the answer". Am I supposed to find what the monster is? Where it is? What time it is? Who knows?

More of a minor complaint, but all the sound effects sound...soft. In the old Layton games, nothing was more satisfying than hearing the "Click...Click...Click...Bang!" effect when you solved a puzzle. Now, it's "Click...Click...Click...Soft Jingle". It's not satisfying at all, which I'm guessing has to do with the fact that the puzzles are rarely satisfying to solve either. The select sound effects sound soft too.

All in all, the game's ok. The writing saves it from being miserable. The big issue is that it's trying to be a Layton game, but it's not a Layton game at all besides the puzzles. Before, people liked being surprised by the story, because it was more of a cinematic experience. Now, with individual cases, you have to give people a chance to solve the mystery on their own. You can't just throw a wrench in at the very end. That's exactly what happened in PL-4, and it's exactly why so many people hate that case. You can't always get away with the "The culprit did nothing wrong" excuse either. Not in a game like this. It gets old fast, and almost all stakes to the game are lost. By the 5th case, it got to a point where I could care less if I caught the culprit. I was just there for the fun dialogue and to solve the mystery of finding Layton and discovering Sherl's identity. With half of that completely taken away, the game loses most of it's satisfaction of beating it. It's like playing Unwound Future, but the game ends right after you beat Dimitri in the minefield puzzle.

The best way I can describe it is this: This game, despite it being titled "The 7th main-series entry in the series" is not a Layton game in the slightest. And if this series is to succeed in the future, it needs to let go of this notion and fully embrace it's own identity.

Another major complaint I have with the cases is that they all have to end in a "happy ending". Hour hand theft? Nah, that was just a brother helping his other brother. Double murder/suicide? Nah, it was just to increase the popularity of the mayor's beloved festival. Haunted house? Nah, just a girl wanting to make friends. Kat framed for murder? Nah, that was just a guy coming up from poor origins trying to become the best like he's always wanted. Every case ends with some sort of happy ending, and it gets old FAST. At the very least, in the other Layton games more often than not the "bad guy" was still in the wrong. That doesn't happen here. Ever. Not even in the last case.

This is by far my biggest problem with this game, and you've nailed it on the head. It's been a while since I played a main series Layton game, but I'm pretty sure even they didn't overdo this. Some stuff wasn't even justifiable. Like Captain Pullman friggin' stealing a statue just to get his old boat back. I understand that it's important to him, but I'm sure that he could easily make enough money to get it afterwards. Also, if it was so important to him, why didn't he do enough research into it to figure out his boss owned the damn thing?Don't even get me started on Chief Inspector Britannias. The guy FRAMED SOMEONE FOR MURDER JUST TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK BETTER THAN HIS RIVAL (whom he's already outranked).

Just in general, the game felt like it was trying to emulate both the main Layton series and also Mystery Room, but just came off as a lesser version of both. Pretty disappointed tbh.

Another major complaint I have with the cases is that they all have to end in a "happy ending". Hour hand theft? Nah, that was just a brother helping his other brother. Double murder/suicide? Nah, it was just to increase the popularity of the mayor's beloved festival. Haunted house? Nah, just a girl wanting to make friends. Kat framed for murder? Nah, that was just a guy coming up from poor origins trying to become the best like he's always wanted. Every case ends with some sort of happy ending, and it gets old FAST. At the very least, in the other Layton games more often than not the "bad guy" was still in the wrong. That doesn't happen here. Ever. Not even in the last case.

This is by far my biggest problem with this game, and you've nailed it on the head. It's been a while since I played a main series Layton game, but I'm pretty sure even they didn't overdo this. Some stuff wasn't even justifiable. Like Captain Pullman friggin' stealing a statue just to get his old boat back. I understand that it's important to him, but I'm sure that he could easily make enough money to get it afterwards. Also, if it was so important to him, why didn't he do enough research into it to figure out his boss owned the damn thing?Don't even get me started on Chief Inspector Britannias. The guy FRAMED SOMEONE FOR MURDER JUST TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK BETTER THAN HIS RIVAL (whom he's already outranked).

Just in general, the game felt like it was trying to emulate both the main Layton series and also Mystery Room, but just came off as a lesser version of both. Pretty disappointed tbh.

Spoiler:

My thoughts exactly. The lack of evil in the game not only lowered the stakes significantly, but it also removed any adversity for Kat. One reason why the professor is such a badass is because he faces all these difficult situations and defeats them like a man. Kat doesn't get this treatment because she doesn't have to defeat anything. She just coasts along.

I’ve been thinking about this since beating the game on iOS a month and a half ago.

Spoiler:

I can forgive not finding Hershel since this game focuses on Katrielle’s first month as a detective, so maybe it’s too much to ask for it to happen so soon. Even without promotional material stating that she’s looking for her father, the first cutscene is a flashback, - or a dream - of Hershel disappearing. This never comes up again, so the story feels like it ended without closure since Katrielle is no closer to finding her father than when she started.

The mystery with Sherl? The game doesn’t even bother solving this. He can talk to certain people, and has memory loss except for a vague memory of a tower. He even interjects throughout the game that Katrielle and Earnest should help solve his mystery but they keep solving case after case instead.

It seems like he was meant to be a sidekick in this game and become the focus of the next game.

Earnest is the opposite. He is introduced as an assistant but his backstory isn’t even alluded to until the final case, and he even meets all of the Seven Dragons. There is a flashback case where he meets Katrielle, but that doesn’t foreshadow the final case.

I think I said this before but I don’t feel like I’m involved in solving mysteries, unlike Danganronpa and especially Ace Attorney. I just collect clues and Katrielle puts them together, often connecting them with a final clue that was kept hidden from the player for surprise purposes.

I also agree that the cases all end with a perfect happy ending, where it was all a misunderstanding and nobody was evil. I’d say Katrielle does face adversity from Brittanias, but that’s all. She interacts with many characters, specifically the Dragons, who stand above her in power and influence but none of them try to push her around with it.

Still, I think Katrielle has established herself as her own person and not simply “Professor Layton’s daughter.” That’s what she means by the puzzle she says she solved at the end of the game.

I’ve been thinking about this since beating the game on iOS a month and a half ago.

Spoiler:

I can forgive not finding Hershel since this game focuses on Katrielle’s first month as a detective, so maybe it’s too much to ask for it to happen so soon. Even without promotional material stating that she’s looking for her father, the first cutscene is a flashback, - or a dream - of Hershel disappearing. This never comes up again, so the story feels like it ended without closure since Katrielle is no closer to finding her father than when she started.

The mystery with Sherl? The game doesn’t even bother solving this. He can talk to certain people, and has memory loss except for a vague memory of a tower. He even interjects throughout the game that Katrielle and Earnest should help solve his mystery but they keep solving case after case instead.

It seems like he was meant to be a sidekick in this game and become the focus of the next game.

Earnest is the opposite. He is introduced as an assistant but his backstory isn’t even alluded to until the final case, and he even meets all of the Seven Dragons. There is a flashback case where he meets Katrielle, but that doesn’t foreshadow the final case.

I think I said this before but I don’t feel like I’m involved in solving mysteries, unlike Danganronpa and especially Ace Attorney. I just collect clues and Katrielle puts them together, often connecting them with a final clue that was kept hidden from the player for surprise purposes.

I also agree that the cases all end with a perfect happy ending, where it was all a misunderstanding and nobody was evil. I’d say Katrielle does face adversity from Brittanias, but that’s all. She interacts with many characters, specifically the Dragons, who stand above her in power and influence but none of them try to push her around with it.

Still, I think Katrielle has established herself as her own person and not simply “Professor Layton’s daughter.” That’s what she means by the puzzle she says she solved at the end of the game.

Yeah, pretty much. If you want a proper mystery game done Layton style, check out Layton Brothers. It's on iOS as well, and you do have to pay for some of the cases, but they're all worth it imo. Some of the mysteries are on the scale of AA and even beyond, imo.

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