I knew improved counterspell would be back, those changes were obtuse and bizarre to begin with. How am i supposed to deal with the shitload of instant heals that also happen to heal for massive amounts, shields, and aura mastery-like abilities?
Blankets gone require many other changes regarding instant casts in the first place, needless to say only insensate and bad players want blankets gone keeping the current state of the game.

You have pummel and disrupting shout. What makes you think warriors deserve a silence on their heroic throw as well?

We have pummel, of which many classes have better version of now in 5.2 (rogues is 5 instead of 4 seconds free, monks and ferals have crazy addons and free). Disrupting shout is a talent choice and many warriors still take piercing howl or even staggering. With our lost grip using charge as interrupts is going to be rough so yea we are losing alot of control in 5.2. I wouldn't mind heroic throw giving a root instead of a silence but we need some sort of ranged ability or we are back to being sitting ducks.

We have pummel, of which many classes have better version of now in 5.2 (rogues is 5 instead of 4 seconds free, monks and ferals have crazy addons and free). Disrupting shout is a talent choice and many warriors still take piercing howl or even staggering. With our lost grip using charge as interrupts is going to be rough so yea we are losing alot of control in 5.2. I wouldn't mind heroic throw giving a root instead of a silence but we need some sort of ranged ability or we are back to being sitting ducks.

If you think you don't have enough caster lockdown as a warrior, you're insane, terrible, or both. Warriors need to lose lockdown, not add more.

As for;

"I wouldn't mind heroic throw giving a root instead of a silence but we need some sort of ranged ability or we are back to being sitting ducks."

Spell reflect.

So aoe fear is 90, shockwave is now 40, warbringer is non-existant (in 5.2 ofc) and even if you take it that means the warriors grip is godawful, and most warriors dont take disrupting shout. We ARE losing our lockdown, people are still living in 5.1 when these discussions are all for 5.2.

So, a mass outcry of "feedback" (butthurt QQ is more like it) gets blanket silences back into the game, but a mass outcry of similar "feedback" and Shaman totems are still locked out while silenced because they're "too hard to counter"?

Silly me, looking for any shred of consistency in Blizzard's game design.

Imo blanket silence is what makes wlocks sorta not extremely shit, for mages its just another one of those things that makes em op as fuck. I was just playing 2's with a resto sham and got shat on by every comp that had a mage or a warrior. Blizzard should stop listening to forums and just tweak numbers stuns and other cc's back to the bare minimum so los and a general idea of what the other class is gonna do will be what makes you win.

Im confused. Am I the only one thinking melee cleaves will be stupid dominant in 5.2? Sounds like non-hybrid casters need blank cs to stay competitive.

How so? Is Deep Sheep CS (actually kicking a spell!) not enough lockdown?
Mages would have still been great, and locks would have been fine. We won't see melee cleaves, we will see teams like RMP, RLS, God comp, etc. The name of the game is becoming 20 second CC chains, and they are allowing the problem to continue with Blankets.

In vanilla, the ONLY class that could kill you in under 4 seconds was a pom-pyro mage.

Altho I agree with the other points you were saying, this statement is far from true.
Have you even played late vanilla?

Let's go through the classes:
Warrior: All Im saying.. Pat Video where he continuously 2-shots ppl with >2k crits. My bwl geared warrior even had a 2,2k white crit in a bg once.
Mage: You said it yourself
Shaman: 2h Windfury procs say hi.
Warlock: Soulfire crits inc.
Ret Pala: Lucky seal proc crit with auto attack crit = one shot (remember seeing a movie of a naxx geared ret with the polearm insta gibbing ppl in duels), not even counting reckoning bomb
Hunter: Good Aimed Shot crit could easily hit for >1/2 of one's hp.
Rogue: Could kill ppl in cheapshots.
Shadowpriest: Maybe not so much (at least not in my memory, could be wrong there)
Druid: Same as priest, can't really recall seeing lots of good ferals or owls back then.

This is all in BGs of course and with high end pve gear (bwl++). Burst was worse then today.

So buffing already op classes like mages locks and druids, while nerfing the biggest change to make windwalker more attractive to play (and actually get a group invite). Srsly, 1 out of 10 bg games I play, I might see a monk, and it MIGHT be a WW. I mean, who cares if WW became wtfop? Hardly anyone plays them, and any fotm re-rollers will suck due to no gear and not being familiar with the class.

So buffing already op classes like mages locks and druids, while nerfing the biggest change to make windwalker more attractive to play (and actually get a group invite). Srsly, 1 out of 10 bg games I play, I might see a monk, and it MIGHT be a WW. I mean, who cares if WW became wtfop? Hardly anyone plays them, and any fotm re-rollers will suck due to no gear and not being familiar with the class.

No gear? They'll just get honor gear/weapon from 5.2.

As to being unfamiliar, yeah, they might not be the best but some players pick up on new classes very quickly (so not 'any' but 'most').

Mages will continue to dominate, when you see a mage nerf in the notes you know it's going to be reverted.

This. Changes on mages are beyond ridicolous. You see something nerfed? jk reverted before live.
This has happened with 3 sec cd Pyro, Deep freeze shattering with a ice lance and now blanket reversed.
This is so fucked up it's not even funny.

Meanwhile monks still shit with now a useless talent replaced with another useless talent. Thank you for your time, please feel free to nerf something else, we are still 0.001 of the pvp population after all, that's too much isn't it?

I dont like that mages get their blanket back but i guess there is nothing to do about that.

Im REALLY happy about the rop-nerf. No single ability should be that mindlessly overpowered.

Looking forward to 5.2 more now

Exactly how did you expect to be able to counter healers with the abundance of instant and quick-cast heals present?

Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

- Thucydides

There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.

Altho I agree with the other points you were saying, this statement is far from true.
Have you even played late vanilla?

Let's go through the classes:
Warrior: All Im saying.. Pat Video where he continuously 2-shots ppl with >2k crits. My bwl geared warrior even had a 2,2k white crit in a bg once.
Mage: You said it yourself
Shaman: 2h Windfury procs say hi.
Warlock: Soulfire crits inc.
Ret Pala: Lucky seal proc crit with auto attack crit = one shot (remember seeing a movie of a naxx geared ret with the polearm insta gibbing ppl in duels), not even counting reckoning bomb
Hunter: Good Aimed Shot crit could easily hit for >1/2 of one's hp.
Rogue: Could kill ppl in cheapshots.
Shadowpriest: Maybe not so much (at least not in my memory, could be wrong there)
Druid: Same as priest, can't really recall seeing lots of good ferals or owls back then.

This is all in BGs of course and with high end pve gear (bwl++). Burst was worse then today.

I'll go ahead and refute all your points.

Warrior: Pat played with a bug that allowed for a 52nd talent point into death wish as well as lots of shots with a 30 minute cooldown recklessness.
Mage: Yea, pom-pyro. Which any mage worth his salt didn't do. Every other spec was fine and took quite a bit longer to kill you.
Shaman: 2h windfury procs one-shot was the classic alignment of the starts. To the extent that you'd have to get so lucky that you needed wfx4-5 for a proper one shot.
Warlock: soul fire crit for no more than a third of your life
Ret: I haven't seen that video. The ones I have seen show rets slowly wittling away an enemy's hp and winning solely based on how survivable they are. e.g. exceptionally long matches. Reck bomb was a one time thing for about 5 days max.
Hunter: A good aimed shot took away a maximum of 1.5k hp.
Rogue: could never kill people in even an opener let alone a cheap shot. Unlike now where they can.
Shadowpriest: wittling hp again
Druid: Not very viable all around against equal gear/skill.

Even without baseline resilience burst was at a lower point then. Yes there were lots of gimmicks, but those gimmicks were rare. Nevermind that the amount of people that actually had bwl+ gear was also exceptionally rare.

Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang

"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"

Lol everyone agrees that that silence was completely retarded. It won't be given back and should have never made it live. Carry on now.

How is it ANY worse than mage's silence give the state of mages and their role in arena? Mages and Warlock both have infinitely more control than 5.2 warriors and more damage (lol rage starved) and more mobility, more outs, more survivability. Gag Order on heroic throw needs back in, not pummel but HT yes.

Warriors: You are losing SOME of your lock down. You are not really losing your damage, you are losing the 25% passive damage reduction because you'll have to actually CHANGE STANCES DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION (ERMAHGERD, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT DEFENSIVE STANCE WAS FOR THOSE TIMES YOU NEEDED TO GO DEFENSIVE?!). Seriously, how easy do you want this game to be for you? You will still be one of the most difficult melee classes to kite for any caster. You don't need to have an answer for EVERYTHING a caster throws at you. Casters don't have an answer for everything melee throw at them.

Some times you will have to sit in a nova and feel helpless, it's what you have team mates for, it's what you might decide to choose mass spell reflect for. It's what happens when your melee cleave trains my Mage partner all game and shuts down the majority of his pressure. People complaining about not having an answer for "X Y Z" situation is exactly what is wrong with this game now. Blizzard answer to the calls and we end up with an absolute shitfest of interrupts, stuns, instant crowd control, instant damage, instant healing, snare breakers, root breakers, gap closers, you name it. Not every class should have a perfect counter to every single situation, this game is based around group PVP, if you find yourself in a situation where you can't counter something, have your team mates do something about it.