"All Around My Hat was very much geared to being a
hit....we expected it to be. The first time we played it the audience
responded...overwhelmingly"

PHOTO: NICK CLARK

THE EARLY YEARS : THE SEVENTIES

At the end of 1971, Steeleye went through a period of
change. After a successful year which saw 'Please To See
the King' in the UK charts and a British tour, Ashley Hutchings
left to pursue a more traditional folk style with the first of the 'Albion
Band' line-ups. At the same time Martin Carthy decided to quit- over
the introduction of an accordion player that the other members disagreed with
and the band suddenly had a recruitment problem. The year 1972 saw this solved
with the arrival of bassist Rick Kemp and an old friend of Peter
Knight's, BOB JOHNSON. The new group signed to the Chrysalis
label, acquired a new manager and entered it's most commercially successful
period to date. Although more personnel changes occurred over the years, even
the departure of Maddy Prior whose voice had been the sound of the band
for a quarter of a century, the core of Peter Knight's fiddle and Bob
Johnson's guitar maintained the familiar Steeleye sound. Coming back
into the band after a gap of more than twenty years, lead singer Gay Woods
summarized it well when she told 'The Unofficial Steeleye Span Website' last
year, "Once they get to it - this magic, when Peter and Bob riff
together.. that's their sound". After twenty eight years playing it is
hardly possible to imagine the group without either of them so when I got chance
to talk to Bob, I asked him first what he did
before the band and who his early influences were....

Immediately prior to joining Steeleye I was working as a
Computer Systems Analyst at the Performing Rights Society in London, a serious,
pensionable, steady job. Before that I had been playing in folk clubs with Peter
Knight. My beginnings were in early Rock'n'Roll and very ethnic blues - Robert
Johnson, Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf - a very similar set of influences to my
contemporaries. Also ethnic country music - Hank Williams, Don Gibson, George
Jones, but the early stuff. As a guitarist I listened to Chet Atkins,
Duane Eddy, The Ventures and a lot of black blues artists. I joined South
London rock groups including Gary Glitter (or Paul Raven as he was
known then). The main requirement was to sound as much like the American
originals as possible. However my family background was classical music - my
mother played the piano and my grandmother, the violin. My earliest musical
memories are of sitting quietly in a corner of the kitchen whilst my grandmother
practiced the violin - no change there! This plus a classic 1950's exposure to
English music at school, led to an interest in traditional British music. The
penny soon dropped that a historical thread could be traced from folk music
through to country music (American) and rock 'n roll.

In the 1960's, I used to go to folk clubs on my own and sit and
listen to Martin Carthy, Bert Lloyd, Ewan McColl etc, fascinated by the
whole genre and it's historical roots. Martin Carthy towered head and
shoulders above all of them. His ability to get inside the story and make time
stand still captivated and inspired me. At that point I began to think in terms
of using my rock background to interpret folk music differently but I was not in
any group and I had no outlet for my ideas.

How much did you know about Steeleye
before you joined and what did you think of them?

I knew a lot about Steeleye because of all the reasons
above and because Peter (Knight) was asked to join it before me whilst we
were still playing together. I thought it was wonderful because Martin (Carthy)
was in it but the 'Liege and Lief' album by Fairport was more
groundbreaking because it leaned more towards rock. This album was a true
landmark. You must also remember that both these groups had the most incredible
players and singers in them, the like of which we rarely hear today in the same
group. When an entire band is playing and singing brilliantly with material that
they all understand and love, the impact is powerful. Unfortunately, this rarely
happens and when it does the phenomenon is short-lived because everyone wants to
become a solo performer. This is based partly on ego and partly on a failure to
understand that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

How did you come to join Steeleye and
what were your early impressions of the band?

When Martin Carthy left Steeleye,Peter
(Knight) persuaded the others to let me join so I left my steady job and
bought some jeans! My early impressions were that I had joined a group of
extremely talented people who could sing and play exceptionally well. At the
same time there was an air of innocent arrogance which I did not recognise, not
having encountered it before. They were not fighting against poor backgrounds
and they had not 'roughed it'. I remember that Rick Kemp noticed this as
well- both of us having had similar backgrounds in the world of groups. I also
remember being so impressed by the sound of Tim (Hart) and Maddy's
voices together and that they had no desire to take a lead vocal! They were like
a folk version of the Everly Brothers, a unique sound. My instinct and
common sense told me to let them get on with it!

You joined Steeleye as the group
moved towards its most commercially successful phase to date. Was it a
deliberate move by yourself and the band to aim for chart success?

This is a difficult question to answer. Rick Kemp and I
came from electric rock and pop backgrounds. The others did not. Naturally we
played in a more 'modern' way so the songs now rested on a totally different
style of accompaniment. There was also more energy and 'muscularity' - an
approach which Rick and I shared.

Our manager at the time moved us into a more popular arena and
we responded accordingly. One thing fed another I don't think we aimed at the
charts, it just happened. An exception to that is the song 'Gaudete'
which I heard being sung in Cambridge and I immediately thought it sounded like
a hit. I don't know why, it's the only time I've ever thought that. In the case
of 'All Around My Hat' it was very much geared towards being a hit by Mike
Batt. We expected it to be a hit, an expectation that was reinforced the
very first time we played it at a festival in Blackpool. The audience responded
to it overwhelmingly.

How do you view that line-up of the early
1970's with the benefit of hindsight?

Obviously that was the successful line-up. It had a quirky,
unique blend of people from different backgrounds, all of whom brought their
energies to bear upon a music form which was timeless and not idiosyncratic to
any one member of the group. It was not necessarily a better line-up than the
current one. It's just that 100% energy and time were invested in the band by
its members and its management - and we were young!

Do you have any favourites amongst the
tracks from that period?

My personal pride is in 'Gaudete', for being able to hear
its special quality, 'Thomas the Rhymer' and 'Long Lankin' - for
managing to impart two fascinating stories in a way which successfully merged
all of the musical influences of the members and their different musical
backgrounds.

Many of your songs from that period were
drawn from traditional sources. How did you come across the material and who
then provided the music and arrangements?

In the early period there was no question of the music not being
traditional. That was the project and uniting force. On 'Below
the Salt', 'Parcel of Rogues', 'Now
We Are Six', 'Commoners Crown' and 'All
Around My Hat' the pattern tended to be the same. If Maddy
brought in a song we would all arrange it together in rehearsal. If I brought in
a song, the bulk of it had already been arranged by me at home on my ancient
Revox tape recorder. Certainly this was the case with 'Thomas', 'Long Lankin'
and 'Alison Gross' for example.

Maddy's songs were, for the most part, traditional
melodies, whereas I would occasionally write the melodies and chord structures,
as in the songs mentioned above. All the lyrics were traditional. In rehearsals Peter
(Knight) played the dominant role in arranging the 'top-end' of the song
including vocal harmonies. Rick (Kemp) and I would work on the rhythm end
and construct guitar and bass riffs together. This 'top and bottom' approach
became a major part of our sound until the drums came. The drums changed the
picture slightly.

As regards our sources of material, Maddy,Tim (Hart) and
I had both started collecting favourite songs and books from the sixties
onwards. We had been present when the folk movement started to blossom in this
country. The Cecil Sharpe House Library in London was a wonderful source
of books. Peter (Knight) was aware of Irish music and had played quite a
lot of sessions in Irish pubs in London.

In the middle of your most popular period
you got a television series on BBC2. How did that come about and what do
you remember of it?

Our manager Jo Lustig got us the series. The only high
spot I can remember was having Stanley Unwin on one week as a guest. What
a clever and funny man! I did not particularly enjoy television or the effect it
had, or has, on music.

Recently the albums from the 1970's have
been remastered onto CD. Do you have any particular favourites from them now?

The album that stands out for me is 'Parcel
of Rogues' for it's youthful, vibrant and uncompromising SOUND. No
beastly digital nonsense, just raw amplified music.

Many fans still consider the music of the
seventies as their favourite of all Steeleye's material. Do you still feel
comfortable performing it on stage?

The reality is that there is very little material which has
survived that early period if you discount the two hits. 'Thomas' and 'Long
Lankin' survive, although their rigidity of arrangement (my fault!) is very
much based in the seventies. The current line-up seems to be happier with more
free arrangements, although I personally still feel a tendency to throw in the
odd formalised pop arrangement - like 'Well Done Liar'

For Peter (Knight) and me, twenty eight years is a large
part of our lives. We MUST have changed a little and therefore our life and
music will have changed. Tim (Harries) was not part of that early period
and Gay would, quite understandably, not feel 100% comfortable singing
songs which were totally personal to Maddy since one needs to identify
with a song before one can sing it. This is not necessarily the case when
playing an instrument.

In the past the fans used to shout for a particular song so it
was fairly easy to spot the favourites. Now they don't - or I'm going deaf!
However, the music is still timeless, traditional music now being interpreted by
NEW people as well as OLD people who have changed. The style of sound remains
pretty much the same to my ears. I would feel more comfortable not trying to
recreate the past. That would give me more of a feeling that there was an
interesting future ahead.

This is the end of the Bob Johnson Interview Part One.
The interview was conducted by Nick Clark exclusively for 'The
Unofficial Steeleye Span Website' and remains copyright to Nick Clark.
The second part will deal with the turbulent years of the 1980's.