I play HC, did on past releases, and if anything there is less hardcore type camping than before in my experience. Of course camping has come to mean so many things to so many people, it depends what you mean by hardcore camping...

So everyone should always have to always be on the move? The so called "CAMPERS" paid the same for the game as you did. Let them play the way they want. If you know someone is in the same spot the entire game, then I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to kill them.. After all, you know where they are. Sure there are many reasons why some people just hide in a different corner when they play. Maybe they just don't have that great of a reaction time to be running about spraying bullets all over. Maybe they just want to be lazy.. Who knows... But I see no point in crying about it.

Dang who stepped on your toes. I get that fact and yes I do realize all of those things. All I am suggesting is that they at least move to a different spot after getting killed. Going to the same place continuously after 10 spawns is a little too much.

But it really is NOT like this in every match, though it may seem to be at times. I am a bit biased, I suppose, as one of my great joys in life is Camper Hunting. The nice thing is, in HC, you have a chance to kill them. They can't sponge damage then cower in their corner to recover. So it doesn't bother me all that much.

I have played more Core in this game than in recent titles and been enjoying it...and having a lot of success... a lot more than I thought I would. But it has it's share of campers as well.

I do challenge my HC Brethren to step it up a bit, some of the camping I have seen has been extreme and not always conducive to WINNING the match.

Traditionally in HC the huge maps play the worst, I have played HCKC on Stonehaven and the game finished 13-10. That said its not always the huge maps, I remember playing HCKC on Terminal in MW3 and the final was 9-6. Some people just like to snipe. A lot.

I have to say if I am in a public session (ie: no clan,friends) where I'm the only one watching my six, I move less but that is for two reasons. One, I'm a 12 year active US Army disabled combat vet. Even in a digital battlefield I can't bring my self to jump around to avoid dying, or run around in aimless circles shooting everything that moves.

Now I came to terms with COD a long time ago, its an arcade shooter meant for anyone to get on and feel proficient as a FPS player, not a tactical/precision shooter. Once military trained always military trained though and I am the one in a corner, or laying on the ground in some just off the wall spot, but I grab my 1 to 2 kills MAX and then I scoot somewhere else, That's just tactical strategy and intelligent warfare. Staying in the same spot or returning is just well as bad as sprinting through the map the entire session.

For me the "hardcore campers" are not my issue - it's simple - THEY are not moving. Don't give them a target and they finish the match 2-0, 3-1 or whatever. They have proven their not moving so your side should just steer clear. Do not turn your back completely, as if it's someone like me, after I lull you with "hardcore camping" and you do the only tactical and intelligent thing and avoid said area then I bring half my team through your flank.

The people I can't STAND are the 3 or 4 Run and Gunners, that keep running straight at said HARDCORE CAMPER(S). I just finished a match where 2 guys on my team went 9-22, and 7-19 because a sniper was dug in and they just kept running right at him. No diversionary tactics, no divide and conquer, no tactical sense to save their lives and the ENTIRE time they are whining stupid camper this and that, and of course when we got to the lobby they called him everything in the book.

All I can ever do is laugh at this "accepted and community promoted abuse of intelligent strategy". Since I was unable to out think, out maneuver, or out strategize you - your the lesser player. Really? As the two above clearly show - 41 deaths and 16 kills - not only responsible for building up and handing these guys elaborate killstreaks (IDIOTS). They were also responsible for 50% of the points the team needed to beat us but only returned 20% of what we needed to beat them.

Throw in at least another 10 if not 15 kills of teammates, from "evil campers" earned killstreaks from them just running right at him over and over. At the minumum, 10 extra, thats almost 70% of the other teams points needed to win.

So in this situation and MOST situations that I hear griping and whining about - if your one for one running around in the open, 27 kills is not impressive when you have 19 deaths and HANDED the other team a third of their score, along with several killstreaks.

Watch each others back, move intelligently, think tactically and a 6 player TEAM with k/d ratio's of 9-4's,11-5's, etc. win every time.

If people are going to KEEP making themselves a target - sprinting right into a campers killzone over and over again, why should they stop or move? Basic logic dictates the ENEMY is dying, I'm not - therefor my team is winning - so I should keep doing what I'm doing and not what the individuals who keep running into my bullets are doing, because that is definately not working out well for them or their team. If someone ever moved on their own accord, that's when I would harass them maybe - because like with those two mentioned above - you almost want to move out of pure pity. Really? You guys are sprinting at me from the same direction I killed you the last 5 times - that's your solution AGAIN?

I will admit I have enjoyed this COD more than any of the others - it's got more of a tactical feel to it -not like the blatant map funneling of shooting fish in a barrel standard and overtly exaggerated target zones of character models that were the standard in BO2 and previous titles.

As far as situations like I described above, telling the CAMPER they suck and that sprinting around in the open non-stop is where true skill lies cracks me up. It's the equivalent of telling two professional boxers - boxer A your speed, agility, reaction time, strategy and footwork is 10x better than boxer B's. However boxer B is the "peoples choice" and therefor better than you naturally - SO to ensure that boxer B even has a chance of besting you, and therefor not being emberassed repeatedly over and over. We are go to place a hula - hoop in the ring, you will stand in the middle of it and punch each other over repeatedly until there is a winner. Blocking, ducking, weaving or stepping out of the hoop results in an instant win for BOXER B.

Been having this discussion since the early days of Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike and other PC FPS with a MOUSE - pin point accuracy and accurate hit mapping, how I miss that - damn modders, also been around forever ruining great games. I do not have any one play style. If my opponents dictate I sit back and kill them over and over again because they are sprinting around the map - until they make me change my tactic I'll keep using them as bullet fodder. If they want to hold back and dig in, I will coordinate a way to dig them out - even if that means openly making myself a tempting target so a split second after he takes me out - my buddy just took the headshot and oh look at there, there is my other teammate taking up where you were - just to make sure you don't sneak your way back in there and rack up some more kills.

However in public play - I will most likely hold back due to lack of communication from teammates, individuals more interested in their own personal glory/agendas regardless of the overall scoreboard, and other COD tendencies. This is what the objective and environment dictates. Back to the wall, IED protecting my flank for bonus kill or heads up that I'm getting flanked, and a large open but appropriate killzone in front of me, that requires little to no adjustment/movement once a target enters my firelane.

When a "camper" get's the best of me - I applaud them - thanks for the challenge and making me better because of it. As I will store this encounter away and I will be prepared for it the next time I see it, since you countered every single tactic I tried, Out-thinking,out-maneuvering and always being one step ahead of me. Pushing my limits, being an actual challenge and true opponent.

No challenge, skill or enjoyment for that matter, shooting a target running around repeatedly in the open over and over.

Going 9-8 against an intelligent tactical strategist is more enjoyable and taxing of one's true abilities IMO, then any hundred 30-6 matches of gunning down sprinting wide open targets.

I want to hunt the lion on his home turf - not brag about shooting 20 cows that are lined up to be slaughtered anyway.

Now my clan and friends can rest easy - my annual release of the camper vs tactical strategy dispute has been released - and everyone can go back to doing what suits and fits their personal play style and that they enjoy and paid for. As thay always have and always will.

As I am going to accept this Chess challenge from a clanmate, whereas others are just as content with a less taxing game of checkers. No matter what have fun, enjoy, play with clan-mates and friends as much as possible - as this tends to relieve some of the things that irk you regardless of what side of the fence your on.

Never said I full out hated campers. I said I was tired of them yes but I also said its like a mini-game to get them. Cause if they do get me then yes I make a strategic manouver to get them. Its what makes the game fun, saying that I'm tired of playing this "mini-game" does not mean I hate campers. Shoot when completely surrounded with no escape I have camped before and I may stay for a bit to make sure they are all gone from my area while thinking of a strategy. So I understand where you are coming from but I do not hate campers. Why does everyone have to think this. People took this post the completely wrong way.

Like i said - your post was one of several or similar I saw on here - and especially just going through that laughable match that directly correlated to your topic - my intended few words on the subject - progressed to my annual release on the topic.

In fact because of your comments is why I felt I could safely respond in this thread on the subject, without getting, "Exactly what a F&*^$! camper would say!" or the usual dribble that regurgitates from less level headed individuals that believe they are how should I say, "All that and a bag of chips".

My statements are generalizing the topic and are in no way intended or directed at you specifically or any one person. I often bite my tongue during these conversations because I know it always has been and always will be discussed and never settled.as some individuals find it easier to class such tactics as weak and how some of them react, like the individuals are glitching/cheating or killed their loved ones or something. Rather then publicly admit they got their rear ended handed to them repeatedly. This gave me my annual release on the subject and for another year I can listen to the ranting and raving able to bite my tongue without getting into a never ending conversation that I know will be a waste.

For this I thank you, for giving me the venue to do so, intentionally or not.

First off thank you for your service. Thank God for men and women like yourself.

Each match is different for me. If I run into a room full of campers,(meaning say 4 of 6 players camping) that is an invitation, for me to do the same to them.

The real discussion and what infuriates most rushers, but probably shouldn't, is that most campers can't or won't adapt their playing style. I say rushers shouldn't get angry because they have the abilities/skill set to adapt their playing style. Pure campers generally lack this skill set. If you can't shoot on the move your likely never going to be able to. Using tactics with your friends is one thing, but the solo camper, he can't have a friend draw that guy out for him and give his buddy a split second longer to kill that guy. I can, as a rusher, adapt to camp or hold an area of map. In fact, I do so often when the game dictates. In all honesty the only time I usually camp is when there are a room full of campers or partied up clan using well designed tactics. However, 1 or 2 campers on a team are likely going to add to my kill total.

The only campers that really bother me are the ones in objective mode games. The ones at the end of match that will have 30 kills and 2 deaths(perhaps up to 3 will be doing this) and lose the game 200-35 in domination because they never bothered with getting a flag.

Summing it all up I have no issue with campers, neither should anyone else, as they should have the ability to adapt and survive. I prefer to run as that to me is more personal than shooting a guy from behind a box or blown up car. But make no mistake I like winning the most and I will do whatever it takes to make that happen.

Try HC Dom. At least most people move around AND you don't have the respawn delay. So you don't end up with that feeling of waiting to play instead of playing. Plus with the constant rush people tend to clean out the camping spots regularly.

yeah me and my clan were getting pissed, because these kids just dont move! you have to check and freakin corner in that mode in order to play it.. they need to rename it "hardcore team camp match" the kids that play this game are just cowards