Talking Terroir with Pedro Parra, PhD

Coolshanagh vineyard

All photos by Christine Campbell

Pedro Parra is Chile’s preeminent wine terroir expert – scratch that – he is the wine worlds ‘go-to’ for all things rock and vine. With a career spanning over 15 years, Parra consults to clients across the globe – from Chile, Australia, Uruguay, Canada, France and the U.S.

I came to learn about Parra through a vineyard called Coolshanagh, based on the Naramata Bench in the Okanagan Valley, British Columbia. There was something new and exciting about their wine – namely, their Chardonnay. I learned that Pedro Parra was the vineyard and terroir consultant to the Okanagan Crush Pad and the winery where Coolshanagh wine is made.

Fast forward to February 13, 2017 – at the Vancouver International Wine Festival, I had the opportunity to sit down with Parra and ask him what makes a specific terroir special, his thoughts on minerality and how vineyard owners can better understand their land.

Christine Campbell: I am a huge fan of Coolshanagh wine from the Naramata Bench. You have said that this vineyard site is one of the top 10 sites for Chardonnay in the world. What makes Coolshanagh so fantastic compared to other vineyard areas?

Pedro Parra: It all depends on the style of wine you want to do. You need favorable weather with a long growing season that gives balance and then you need a type of soil that brings tension to the minerality – that would be the top wine anyone can drink. You won’t find this type of situation in many places in the world. People know that limestone soils mix well with Chardonnay. Coolshanagh has a lot of limestone and a lot of stones. As well, there is great weather so they have the perfect combination. This is one part of the terroir - now you need the second.

CC: What is the second part of terroir?

PP: The human part. You need to plant it, farm it, develop it and then make the wine. But you can’t do that if you don’t have the right terroir. It takes time to know it, understand it, vinify it and grow it - little by little.

CC: How long does it take to develop a well-known and understood terroir?

PP: One generation - the vines need to grow and then it is about learning how to vinify the wine you have. It takes time to know who you are. How can you vinify wine if you don’t know what you like? So, it is about personal research on who you are and then going about learning how to make something you like to drink.

CC: Is it a blending of an excellent vineyard site and good weather along with the winemakers’ relation to the land and how well they know themselves?

PP: Yes, a winemaker needs to learn how to play the music. People can learn to read music but everyone has a different interpretation of that music – their own signature. It is the same with wine - it is very personal.

CC: Would say that viticulturalists need to pay more attention to the soil versus the grape varieties they want to grow?

PP: A million percent yes. I am a winemaker; it is something I want to do - it is egocentric. I needed to learn to step back and not do anything to make my wine the correct way. Often, intervention can be a problem – especially when it is a young or new winemaker. I like working with young winemakers because they have such open minds but at the same time it seems they want to prove something and they touch the wine too much. Older winemakers don’t touch too much but they are more close-minded – you need to try to be somewhere in the middle.

CC: What have you learned about the Okanagan terroir so far?

Pedro Parra

PP: I have been coming to the Okanagan for six years. The Okanagan terroir is very special. It is the most different and unique terroir I have worked with in the entire world. It is in the desert but in the cold and high up in elevation. If you look at soil sample numbers, you will see crazy numbers. If you were to buy a book on viticulture, the Okanagan numbers would not be in the book. There is no recipe for the Okanagan – everything is very new so it is about instinct rather than numbers. And details - the details are important.

CC: By details, do you mean choosing your site and choosing the grape varieties that will thrive there?

PP: Yes, it is like saying all the Okanagan is sandy soil. We can say that but it is the same as saying everyone in Canada is Canadian, what does that really mean? We need to look further. We have sand, but what else? What type of sand? Silty sand? Sand with gravel…the details are important. Not everything is good for all rootstocks so you need to know what you are working with first before you plant to fully understand what is possible.

CC: Is terroir linked to minerality?

PP: No – terroir is a piece of land.

CC: What is your definition of terroir?

PP: My definition of terroir has changed many times during my life. For me now; terroir is a piece of land you can recognize. You want to have a terroir with its signature on it – it displays the land’s typicity every year. Terroir also changes with the weather but will display the same typicity. It is like a musician – every night he plays the same piece of music, but each performance is different. Maybe tomorrow, my definition will change, but that is how I see it now. It has taken me years to come to this definition. When I was 32 and received my PhD, I had different ideas. Now I am 47 and I feel less attached to the science and more interested in intuition. I told my wife I got a PhD to understand that wine and numbers don’t go well together. I don’t follow science as much anymore – I follow winemakers because they understand the language of wine. That is why there is confusion about minerality.

CC: What is minerality to you?

PP: For me, I don’t really like to use the word ‘minerality’; I use the word ‘electricity’. I think people understand the physical reaction in their mouth. I think minerality is a taste that someone needs to teach you. There are many ways that minerality or electricity show up in wine so, for me, I needed to be taught how to understand it and how to identify it. And, again, it is a personal sensation – not everyone has the same sensitivity to those flavors. Personally, it is all about electricity and tension and not everybody likes this sensation. When I invite people to my house, sometimes, the more mineral heavy wines are the ones that people don’t like. That is the gap between people who know about wine and those who do not. If you don’t train your palate, this sensation will be hard to understand. People are confused by the mineral flavors and call them rustic, astringent, not full enough…People want something sweet in their mouth – black fruit, round, sweet wines – these are the people who are not trained. When you understand about minerality and wine, you cannot go back – it is a sensation that lasts forever.

CC: How do you suggest that people learn to train and develop their palates?

PP: We need another generation to change the way we look at wine. Of course, now there are people who understand and get it, but there is still so much to be done. We need more people to learn to appreciate how to taste wine and not just reach for the sugar heavy wines. I think people need to be more open-minded.

CC: Are there ways that vineyards can become overly stressed and the tension and electricity fades away?

coolshanagh christine campbell

PP: There is a very thin line – yes. Minerality, as I said, is an electric sensation in your mouth and it gets easily confused with a wine being dry. And overly dry wine is made when the vines are stressed. So, for example, one very warm year in Barolo, which is very mineral heavy, can easily go to dry tannins. The line between very good minerality and dry tannins is a very thin line and is more difficult to understand. In 99% of the time, mineral wines come from stony places and stony places, generally, have more stress. You really need to know your vineyard area well. If you have a winemaker that wants to extract a lot - he or she can destroy the wine – it is a fine balance.

CC: Is there not currently a movement of winemaking around that world that promotes and celebrates a ‘hands-off’ approach; letting the unique terroir shine through?

PP: Yes, and I love it. There are the new Californian, Australian, and Chilean groups – a lot of winemakers are changing the way they look at wine and this is great. And, a lot of the top sommeliers really love this new style of wine so more people are getting educated.

CC: What do you look for when you are testing a site?

PP: First, I need to know the geology family I am working with. It is impossible to generalize – when I dig, I look for the small details and then I figure it out when I am working, digging and understanding. Ultimately, I am looking to see how much of the property is under limestone.

CC: How far do you go down?

PP: Maximum 2 meters if I want to find the stones. It was easy for me to see with the Coolshanagh vineyard that there is a lot of limestone. The randomness of the Okanagan Valley is beautiful. Maybe 1% will be Grand Cru potential, maybe 15% will be Premier Cru potential... you need time to fully understand the terroir.

CC: So the Okanagan is a good place to be in the world of wine right now?

PP: For me, it is a funny place to be. The challenge is that we don’t really know who we are yet. On this same level is Oregon. In Okanagan the numbers should not be able to make good wine – yet it happens. For example, say the pH in the soil is 8.7 - if you look in a book and see what to do with 8.7 – it will say ‘do not plant’. But, it is funny because here in the Okanagan it is good for grape growing when in the book it says it shouldn’t be. It is fascinating. Maybe it is the only place I work in the world where I don’t really know very well what I am doing - I am learning along with my clients.

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Marysa Mitch is a freelance writer focusing on spirits, beer, and wine. She shares her love for all things food and drink related on her blog, limerence + liquor. You can also follow her on Twitter at @msmarysa.

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Matt Archambault

Matt Archambault is a beer enthusiast based in NYC. With over 15 years of experience behind a bar, Matt is the Amazon.com of beer - if you like this, you may also like... Join him in his own personal journey of exploration and discovery on Untappd (https://untappd.com/user/mattarchambault). In his spare time, Matt has driven a mini-van off a cliff, endured water-boarding, and once appeared on Good Morning America as part of an elaborate prank. Follow him @supercasz.

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Matthew Callahan

Matthew Callahan is a graduate of Roosevelt University in Chicago, where he earned a B.F.A. in Theatre and had a wonderful eight-year career as a stage and film actor. Eventually, his passion for writing, technology, and web design got the better of him and he dove head-first into a career in geek services. In 2011 Matthew founded Digitalimit, a design and marketing agency specializing in helping entrepreneurs and small businesses find their voice online. From time to time, he also enjoys freelance writing -- especially on the topic of good drinks. Matthew lives in New York City with his wife, and their two wonderful MacBooks. Follow him on Twitter @_thinkertinker.

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Meg Roebling

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Mike Groener

Trying to intersect culinary innovation with the art of distillation. Let's disambiguate the industry of alcohol and share the research. Program manager, distiller, and creator.
Follow Genius Gin @geniusliquids.

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Neal Bayless

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Nicole del Rosario

Nicole del Rosario is a beer and spirits enthusiast based in Leipzig, Germany. Training to be an actual professor by day and an alcohol professor by night, she spends most of her mornings pondering Kantian ethics at the university and her evenings drinking her way through Europe. Don't be shy and come say hi on Twitter: @happyhegelian.

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Nora McGunnigle

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Pamela Wiznitzer

Pamela Wiznitzer has a true passion and zest for the industry that is seen and tasted in every drink she serves. Since 2006, Pamela has been working throughout NYC and currently can be found shaking things up at The Dead Rabbit in the Financial District. She has earned honors from her industry peers such as winning Tyku's 2011 Sake challenge, selected as one of the 20 Diageo World Class 2012 Contestants, a finalist in Pama's 2011 Beyond the Glass.

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Pameladevi Govinda

Pameladevi Govinda lives in Brooklyn. She has worked at a number of wine shops in New York City. She is also wine, spirits, food and travel writer with a taste for Muscadet, and a penchant for curry. Her work has appeared in Imbibe, Vibe, CITY, IN New York, Serious Eats, Brooklyn Based, Diner Journal and more. Her previously published work and blog can be viewed at www.gajakattack.com. Follow her on Twitter @PamGovinda.

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Patrick Reed

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Paul Senft

Paul Senft is a Spirits Writer and Reviewer based in Metro Atlanta. His work has appeared in Got Rum? Magazine, Chilled, Distiller, as well as other publications covering a range of subjects related to Spirits, Travel, and the fun world of Tiki. He founded www.RumJourney.com and can be found on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/paul.e.senft.

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Phil Galewitz

Phil Galewitz has been writing about the the craft brewing industry in the Mid-Atlantic states since 2011. He lives in Washington D.C. and South Florida. Twitter: @philgalewitz Instagram: Philmorebeer. He visits over 300 breweries a year across the United States.

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Philip Kampe

Philip S. Kampe is a veteran wine journalist who contributes to several print and online publications, moderates wine events nationwide and judges competitions. He is a member of the distinguished Wine Media Guild and resides in the both the New York metro area and the Berkshires of Massachusetts.

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Robin Goldsmith

A British freelance food and drink writer who has a WSET Advanced Certificate in Wines and Spirits and is a member of CAMRA (The UK Campaign for Real Ale).
Robin reviews food and drink products for individual companies and he regularly writes reports on trade events, such as wine tastings or food and drink shows.
Additionally, he has written detailed commercial reports for trade publications and many of his articles have been published on respected industry websites, such as the drinks business, Speciality Food Magazine and hostelbookers.
Web : www.thewritetaste.co.uk
Twitter : @robthefoodie
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/TheWriteTaste

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Robin Robinson

Robin Robinson is a consultant to the craft spirits industry, where he helps small brands identify their unique narratives to penetrate and activate the marketplace and implement sales and marketing strategies. Prior to that, Robin was instrumental in helping to build the Compass Box Whisky Co. in the United States as its U.S. Brand Ambassador and Brand Manager over 34 markets, where he was responsible for distributor management, sales, retail and consumer education. He is the creator of the long running "Whiskey Smackdown" educational series at Astor Center NYC. More information at his website www.robinrobinsonllc.com

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Ryan Stevens

From his first sip of wine to the last Scotch tasting, Ryan has loved the craft and the journey behind the bottle. Detailing the experience that goes into each libation and telling the stories that go into every glass, fuels a passion quenched only by words. As a Contributor for The Oregon Wine Press, Busted Wallet, and Ask Men, he has found his niche showcasing the nuances behind the vices that make life a celebration. Living in Oregon provides a rich canvas filled with vibrant flavor profiles and vivid fermented nuances that, with his family by his side, Ryan paints a picture of the delicious possibilities. Follow him on Instagram @BlankGlass

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Sara Gorelick

Sara Gorelick spends her time in the world of spirits, working as an Account Director at Colangelo & Partners by day and a freelance writer by night. Her work has been included on ShakeStir.com, Examiner.com, BarNoneDrinks and other hospitality-related outlets. When Sara isn't working, reviewing or writing, she can be found laughing with family and friends or taking long walks with beagle Bailey. Follow her at @smgorelick.

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Sarah Annese

Sarah Annese is a freelance writer based in New York City with a focus on craft beer. She co-founded, edits and writes for www.beerunion.com, a website about beer news in NYC. Follow her on twitter @sarahbeerunion or @beerunion.

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Sara Havens

Sara Havens is a Louisville, Ky-based freelance writer and editor who pens the popular nightlife column The Bar Belle. On Twitter and Instagram: @TheBarBelle

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Sharyn Foulis

Sharyn Foulis is a wine educator and retail consultant working in Sydney, Australia. She gets out of bed every morning to find new ways of helping people find wines they will love.

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Thea Dwelle

Thea Dwelle is the creator and editor of Luscious Lushes, a wine, food, and travel blog. For more than 7 years, she has been writing about wine, travel and technology, focusing on the story behind the wine. When not pursuing vinous pleasure, she works in technology and is an amateur mixologist. Follow her on Twitter @Luscious_Lushes

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Thomas Riley

Tom Riley is a veteran journalist, writer, and editor who left a career in education in 2010, to study and write about wine. He holds an Advanced Certificate with merit from the Wine & Spirits Education Trust, London UK (WSET), and is currently pursuing their Diploma. In addition to The Alcohol Professor, he writes for the Bay Area News Group (San Jose Mercury, Contra Costa Times, Oakland Tribune), AmericanWineryGuide.com and Berkeleyside.com's online food and wine supplement, Nosh. You can follow him at his blog The Grape Belt or on Twitter @grapebelt.

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Tim Miner

Tim has been tending bar in New York City since 2003. Currently he can be found mixing drinks at The Long Island Bar in Brooklyn, New York and at The Eddy in Providence, Rhode Island. He is a cocktail bartender who loves creating new drinks. Some of his creations have been featured in such publications as: The New York Times, AM New York, The New York Post, The Spir.it, Refinery29, Becomingbklyn, and Shakestir! Tim has taught cocktail classes and consulted on cocktail programs, most recently designing the cocktail menu at French Louie in Brooklyn. He won The annual "Bring Your Bartender to the Opera Contest and was a U.S. Finalist in the 17th Annual Calvados Nouvelle Vogue International Competiton. When he's not behind the bar, you can find him on twitter @_tim_miner.

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Tracy Weiss

Tracy Weiss had her first glass of Manischewitz at age 11. She found it horrendous but knew someday (when she was of legal drinking age), sheâ€™d seek out better vino. At her alma mater Michigan State University, Tracy took advantage of half-off bottles on Wine Wednesdays. With clarity found from sampling different varieties, she began to mock girlfriends sipping Booneâ€™s Farm Strawberry Hill. An oenophile is born. This paired well with a violent cheese obsession and further motivated her to eat her way through life. Blending her passion for the finer things with a Midwestern upbringing, Tracy likes to pair fabulous wines with Dominos Pizza and crappy Chinese food.
In a flurry of Parisian triple crÃ¨mes, Napa cabs, and pinxtos in San Sebastian, a decade of toiling in television and talent management flew by.
Abandoning the entertainment business to write (and eat) full time, Tracy now focuses her culinary and wine interests closer to home splitting time between Manhattan and the North Fork of Long Island. She currently freelances for food, wine and lifestyle publications while working on her upcoming website www.northforkd.com and first book.
When not scribbling, Tracy enjoys oysters, all things pumpkin, cult television shows and bubbly from any region.

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Trevor Hagstrom

Trevor Hagstrom and Maggie Rosenberg (who snaps the photos for his stories) are food and beverage impresarios and content creators whose work and information on future projects can be found at www.tandmworks.com.

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Warren Bobrow

Warren Bobrow is the Food and Drink Editor of the 501c3 non profit Wild Table on Wild River Review located in Princeton, New Jersey. He is the cocktail writer for DrinkUpNY, Foodista, The "Fabulous" Beekman Boys and has written over 300 articles on food, wine and spirits. His first book, Apothecary Cocktails- will be released by Rockport/Quayside Publishing in November 2013. He was one of 12 journalists world-wide, and the only one from the USA to participate in the FÃªte de laGastronomie- the weekend of September 22nd. 2012 in Burgundy. He attends Tales of the Cocktail, WSWA, The Manhattan Cocktail Classic and the Boston Cocktail Summit.
Warren was born and raised on a Biodynamic farm in NJ. You can follow him on Twitter @WarrrenBobrow1.

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William Schragis

Will Schragis has been busy trading jobs in as a Retail Buyer, Sommelier, Bartender, and Bourbon Distiller. He graduated from Wesleyan University in Connecticut with a Liberal Arts degree in the wonderfully vague discipline of American Studies.

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Zachary Feldman

Bitters, Old Men founder Zachary Feldman's origins can be traced back to the Venezuelan soldier who first told Angostura founder Dr. Johann Gottlieb Benjamin Siegert, you should really bottle this, dude.

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Mike Gerrard

Mike Gerrard is an award-winning writer who specialises in travel writing and writing about spirits. He combines the two in his website, Travel Distilled. He lives half the year in Cambridgeshire in England and the other half in Arizona, and you'll find him on Twitter as @Mike_Gerrard, @TravelDistilled, and @The_Vodka_Guy.

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Elly Blanchard

Elly Blanchard is a freelance writer with a passion for traveling. When not exploring the world or hunting around for new cuisines to try - you will find her relaxing in the garden with her head in a good book.

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Nickolaus Hines

Nickolaus Hines is a food and beverage writer based in New York. His work has appeared in Atlas Obscura, Men's Journal, Supercall and more. He's always on the lookout for his next favorite drink and he will never hesitate to pet your dog. You can see what he's drinking now on his Instagram and Twitter, and see more of his work on his website.