I just don't get it. In my own moral system, I cannot believe I was born "already sinful" and that I need to believe in something that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense just to cleanse myself. I have nothing against this but, honestly, the stories you're telling really don't sound that different from fairy tales.

...Sorry I'm not particularly sorry? Just honesty.

I said to the sun, "Tell me about the big bang"
& the sun said “it hurts to become."
Andrea Gibson, "I Sing The Body Electric; Especially When My Power Is Out"

To just get back on topic a little. The definition of a fairytale, aside from a tale about mystical creatures, is "a highly improbable story" And that definition covers most everything in the Bible. Adam and Eve is a highly improbable story. It is extremely unlikely that the entire human race came from two people, considering we'd all have brain damage from all of the incest, and it doesn't explain how there are different races of people at all. Unless there was an Adam and Eve for every race. Noah's Ark, another highly improbably story. Jesus coming back from the dead, extremely unlikely. So yes they all are fairy tales. And you can choose to believe that they can happen, most every girl wishes for her own Cinderella story, but that doesn't make them any more likely to have happened in the past. And you can call it faith to believe in them, but I call it a lack of common sense. And honestly a waste of time. We are supposed to learn from history so that we don't repeat our past mistakes, but I suggest learning from the history we actually know for a fact happened. It's a much more productive way to live.

To just get back on topic a little. The definition of a fairytale, aside from a tale about mystical creatures, is "a highly improbable story" And that definition covers most everything in the Bible. Adam and Eve is a highly improbable story. It is extremely unlikely that the entire human race came from two people, considering we'd all have brain damage from all of the incest, and it doesn't explain how there are different races of people at all. Unless there was an Adam and Eve for every race. Noah's Ark, another highly improbably story. Jesus coming back from the dead, extremely unlikely. So yes they all are fairy tales. And you can choose to believe that they can happen, most every girl wishes for her own Cinderella story, but that doesn't make them any more likely to have happened in the past. And you can call it faith to believe in them, but I call it a lack of common sense. And honestly a waste of time. We are supposed to learn from history so that we don't repeat our past mistakes, but I suggest learning from the history we actually know for a fact happened. It's a much more productive way to live.

I think this is a good way to end this thread.

"To suspect your own mortality is to know the beginning of terror; to learn irrefutably that you are mortal is to know the end of terror." -Frank Herbert

“To love our enemy is impossible. The moment we understand our enemy, we feel compassion towards him or her, and he or she is no longer our enemy.” ~Thich Nhat Hanh

To just get back on topic a little. The definition of a fairytale, aside from a tale about mystical creatures, is "a highly improbable story" And that definition covers most everything in the Bible. Adam and Eve is a highly improbable story. It is extremely unlikely that the entire human race came from two people, considering we'd all have brain damage from all of the incest, and it doesn't explain how there are different races of people at all. Unless there was an Adam and Eve for every race. Noah's Ark, another highly improbably story. Jesus coming back from the dead, extremely unlikely. So yes they all are fairy tales. And you can choose to believe that they can happen, most every girl wishes for her own Cinderella story, but that doesn't make them any more likely to have happened in the past. And you can call it faith to believe in them, but I call it a lack of common sense. And honestly a waste of time. We are supposed to learn from history so that we don't repeat our past mistakes, but I suggest learning from the history we actually know for a fact happened. It's a much more productive way to live.

1. Incest is not directly related to deforminties, it's an urban legend. Unless it's very direct, mother, father, sister, brother. However the chances of deformity only go up, but are not garunteed.

2. Evolution is a great example. If you believe all life came from one kind of basic cell, I don't see how this is any more unlikely. If you continue breed two white dogs, and out of theire offspring only breed the darkest and continue that for a few generations you'd have black dogs. Now realize humans have been around for a couple thousand years already, we've had plenty of time to change naturally.

3. Faith and a lack of common sense are two totally different things. You have faith the sun will rise tomorrow, and refusing to have faith in that fact is a lack of common sense. That piece of logic can be used against you as easily as it can be used for your arguement.

4. I don't think "do not murder" or "do not steal" are a "waste of time" to learn. It's black and white morality that's quite frankly, very important to learn. The stories in the Bible may be literal or metaphorical, but either way, more have important lessons in them deemd acceptable by society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigmole

Megan I have an honest question. In another thread you explained what you believe about creationism. How does a belief in Adam and Eve fit into that? I just ask because I feel like you are fighting really hard to defend a story in the Bible that I'm not sure you actually believe in completely.

The story of Adam and Eve might not be literal, realize that the Bible may or may not be a recording of true events. The point of it was that Adam and Eve, or in other words all of the current humanity, disobeyed someone (in this case God) who was obviously trying to do what he felt was best for them. As a result something similair to modern humanity was born.

I knew what I was going to read when I opened this thread, and I was right. Self-righetous atheists mobbing the few Christians here who dare to be so and who do their best to respond to any questions asked about their religion.

Seriously guys? Seriously? Do we have nothing better to do? These threads are all the same. OP makes a criticism of Christianity, poster 2 and 3 come in and agree. Then Megan does her respond to the best of her knowledge as a christian, then OP, posters 2, 3, 4 and 5 all pick apart every single word of her post and metaphorically beat her over the head with it.

Can we try and be a bit more classy? It always ends this way. OP criticises Christianity, Megan responds as best she can, thread turns into a circlejerk of atheists.

Ok well it's called a debate. It's not our fault that Megan is the only one of her position to ever respond. It's also not our fault that the other side never asks us questions so all we are left to do is ask questions of the other side.

I knew what I was going to read when I opened this thread, and I was right. Self-righetous atheists mobbing the few Christians here who dare to be so and who do their best to respond to any questions asked about their religion.

Seriously guys? Seriously? Do we have nothing better to do? These threads are all the same. OP makes a criticism of Christianity, poster 2 and 3 come in and agree. Then Megan does her respond to the best of her knowledge as a christian, then OP, posters 2, 3, 4 and 5 all pick apart every single word of her post and metaphorically beat her over the head with it.

Can we try and be a bit more classy? It always ends this way. OP criticises Christianity, Megan responds as best she can, thread turns into a circlejerk of atheists.

If we can't debate what is the point of this forum? So people can have everyone agree with them and create some absolutely deceitful sense of euphoria?
No, if someone says something unfounded I'll pick them up on it. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person or that I dislike the poster on a personal basis. It means I participated in a debate.

If we can't debate what is the point of this forum? So people can have everyone agree with them and create some absolutely deceitful sense of euphoria?
No, if someone says something unfounded I'll pick them up on it. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person or that I dislike the poster on a personal basis. It means I participated in a debate.

Agreed. If something in a debate thread cant stand up to scrutiny then dont expect it to be not picked apart.

"To suspect your own mortality is to know the beginning of terror; to learn irrefutably that you are mortal is to know the end of terror." -Frank Herbert

“To love our enemy is impossible. The moment we understand our enemy, we feel compassion towards him or her, and he or she is no longer our enemy.” ~Thich Nhat Hanh

Hahaha, Matthew, your post was my favorite. I'm poster #4 because I usually come in much later.

Megan, I want you to know I have a lot of respect for you. You have a lot of guts and belief in what you do to keep posting in here even with us bashing on you, so please, nothing I say I mean against you. I am not a believer, but I really do think that you are a good person, and this is my moment to make sure you know...no hard feelings.

I said to the sun, "Tell me about the big bang"
& the sun said “it hurts to become."
Andrea Gibson, "I Sing The Body Electric; Especially When My Power Is Out"

I wouldn't say I all out avoid asking any group questions, because I believe in a good discussion, but I do avoid asking many atheists, especially ones I do not know well, questions (it's much more likely that discussion will stay civil if the person is a friend of mine). Why, do you ask? Simple. Because although some do not realize it, there are as many "zealot" atheists as there are zealot christians. Both can be really bad about just spouting off their opinion without listening to the other person. Pretty much like politics, actually. Probably why those are the two topics you are never supposed to discuss with unfamiliar people. It's also probably why the American political system has so much trouble getting things done.

So let's face how this goes down in this forum in particular: atheist asks question or makes comment about how christianity is stupid. Giant blob of atheists agree. Christian comes in to share his/her opinion. Everyone tears him/her apart. If more christians come in, they set out to tear them apart too by explaining why their beliefs are stupid "fairy tales." But not only do their disdain the christians' beliefs, they treat them with contempt for the people they are. It's like shaking your head at them. "Silly person, how could you ever believe that load of crap?"

Kind of sounds familiar, doesn't it guys? Kind of how maybe...oh yeah! How some christians treat atheists!

So how about we have a REAL discussion, huh? You know, the kind where they offer their POV, you offer yours, that kind of thing. NOT where you offer your POV AND blabber on about why theirs is stupid, then they do the same to you. That's not a discussion. That is just a bunch of silly, close-minded, blind and deaf people arguing about nothing.

So if you want to talk, talk. But do it in a way that actually dignifies what you are saying and makes you look respectable and decent. .

I think, if you really look at it, both groups have a lot more in common than they wish they did, because for being sooooo opposed to each other, both groups certainly act very similar.

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?""That depends a good deal on where you want to get to." "I don't much care where-""Then it doesn't matter which way you go."

I wouldn't say I all out avoid asking any group questions, because I believe in a good discussion, but I do avoid asking many atheists, especially ones I do not know well, questions (it's much more likely that discussion will stay civil if the person is a friend of mine). Why, do you ask? Simple. Because although some do not realize it, there are as many "zealot" atheists as there are zealot christians. Both can be really bad about just spouting off their opinion without listening to the other person. Pretty much like politics, actually. Probably why those are the two topics you are never supposed to discuss with unfamiliar people. It's also probably why the American political system has so much trouble getting things done.

So let's face how this goes down in this forum in particular: atheist asks question or makes comment about how christianity is stupid. Giant blob of atheists agree. Christian comes in to share his/her opinion. Everyone tears him/her apart. If more christians come in, they set out to tear them apart too by explaining why their beliefs are stupid "fairy tales." But not only do their disdain the christians' beliefs, they treat them with contempt for the people they are. It's like shaking your head at them. "Silly person, how could you ever believe that load of crap?"

Kind of sounds familiar, doesn't it guys? Kind of how maybe...oh yeah! How some christians treat atheists!

So how about we have a REAL discussion, huh? You know, the kind where they offer their POV, you offer yours, that kind of thing. NOT where you offer your POV AND blabber on about why theirs is stupid, then they do the same to you. That's not a discussion. That is just a bunch of silly, close-minded, blind and deaf people arguing about nothing.

So if you want to talk, talk. But do it in a way that actually dignifies what you are saying and makes you look respectable and decent. .

I think, if you really look at it, both groups have a lot more in common than they wish they did, because for being sooooo opposed to each other, both groups certainly act very similar.

Thank you, someone who agrees with me. These threads all just turn into atheists with frustrations in their lives taking it out by ripping to pieces Christians.

There was no debate in the first place. The "question" was clearly just a criticism pathetically disguised as a question.

Thank you, someone who agrees with me. These threads all just turn into atheists with frustrations in their lives taking it out by ripping to pieces Christians.

There was no debate in the first place. The "question" was clearly just a criticism pathetically disguised as a question.

Actually, that's not exactly what I was saying. I was saying both groups do the same thing to one another. I've seen threads where Christians bash on atheists, too and I see both bashing each other pretty badly outside of the internet. Both groups do the same thing. Both get their hands dirty. So both need to stop acting like they are such an innocent victim of Atheist/Christian injustice, because people not caught up in the battle don't buy that crap. It's like a teenage girl telling her parents that she was at the library while trying to cover the hickey on her neck with her hair.

In this thread, yes, I believe it was more of a comment on Christianity meant to rally Atheists than to be an actual discussion.

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?""That depends a good deal on where you want to get to." "I don't much care where-""Then it doesn't matter which way you go."

I wouldn't say I all out avoid asking any group questions, because I believe in a good discussion, but I do avoid asking many atheists, especially ones I do not know well, questions (it's much more likely that discussion will stay civil if the person is a friend of mine). Why, do you ask? Simple. Because although some do not realize it, there are as many "zealot" atheists as there are zealot christians. Both can be really bad about just spouting off their opinion without listening to the other person. Pretty much like politics, actually. Probably why those are the two topics you are never supposed to discuss with unfamiliar people. It's also probably why the American political system has so much trouble getting things done.

So let's face how this goes down in this forum in particular: atheist asks question or makes comment about how christianity is stupid. Giant blob of atheists agree. Christian comes in to share his/her opinion. Everyone tears him/her apart. If more christians come in, they set out to tear them apart too by explaining why their beliefs are stupid "fairy tales." But not only do their disdain the christians' beliefs, they treat them with contempt for the people they are. It's like shaking your head at them. "Silly person, how could you ever believe that load of crap?"

Kind of sounds familiar, doesn't it guys? Kind of how maybe...oh yeah! How some christians treat atheists!

So how about we have a REAL discussion, huh? You know, the kind where they offer their POV, you offer yours, that kind of thing. NOT where you offer your POV AND blabber on about why theirs is stupid, then they do the same to you. That's not a discussion. That is just a bunch of silly, close-minded, blind and deaf people arguing about nothing.

So if you want to talk, talk. But do it in a way that actually dignifies what you are saying and makes you look respectable and decent. .

I think, if you really look at it, both groups have a lot more in common than they wish they did, because for being sooooo opposed to each other, both groups certainly act very similar.

Welcome to the human race.

"To suspect your own mortality is to know the beginning of terror; to learn irrefutably that you are mortal is to know the end of terror." -Frank Herbert

“To love our enemy is impossible. The moment we understand our enemy, we feel compassion towards him or her, and he or she is no longer our enemy.” ~Thich Nhat Hanh

Thank you, someone who agrees with me. These threads all just turn into atheists with frustrations in their lives taking it out by ripping to pieces Christians.

There was no debate in the first place. The "question" was clearly just a criticism pathetically disguised as a question.

For someone who claims to be s skeptic, you really do love making unfounded claims, don't you.
And I too am a bit suspicious about the question, but I did not participate in the question, simply the resulting debate.

Actually, that's not exactly what I was saying. I was saying both groups do the same thing to one another. I've seen threads where Christians bash on atheists, too and I see both bashing each other pretty badly outside of the internet. Both groups do the same thing. Both get their hands dirty. So both need to stop acting like they are such an innocent victim of Atheist/Christian injustice, because people not caught up in the battle don't buy that crap. It's like a teenage girl telling her parents that she was at the library while trying to cover the hickey on her neck with her hair.

In this thread, yes, I believe it was more of a comment on Christianity meant to rally Atheists than to be an actual discussion.

Well yeah it is exactly what you were saying, I just didn't talk about the Christian -> Atheist side of it.

Although I think the Christian -> Atheist is more common in America. On the internet it's more common for Atheists to hate on Christians because many can't do it in real life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Mr. Self Destruct~

For someone who claims to be s skeptic, you really do love making unfounded claims, don't you.
And I too am a bit suspicious about the question, but I did not participate in the question, simply the resulting debate.

It was just a bit of fun. I'm not seriously claiming to know that every atheist here has troubled lives and takes it out on Christians here.