Hello, This is my experience with Hackingdojo on how my money get ripped off . So i started Hackingdojo a month & half ago i paid for a Year subscriptions, i did the novice course with the shodan now it's time for him to move me to the next level thus i already round up with the shodan course, i mailed him telling him that i rounded up with shodan level, his response was i most write an exam before i can move to the next level i told him i can't & he asked why? & i told him i just want to know the way things works i ain't interested in certificate, well he said it's a most that all student most take it, he has been doing it for years well i said no problem since we can't resolved this issue we keep having problem since we can't agree on a common ground i made a request i need him to cancel my subscriptions. But he said he's not going to make refund also not going to cancel the subscription neither, that he supply me with everything that his course has no problem, but only one thought came to my mind i have been ripped off by hackingdojo, but the funny part was that i told him to took off the months that i have stayed then refund the others he refuse.Then i though again what legit business person won't make refund if you don't want to deal with them?

Well i know maybe people would like to know if the course was good or what was my experience with the course? my answer is Yes/No First the Yes - yes it's cool thus i was still new to penetration testing it all about methodology, Second the No - no it's about methodology i was hoping the course was unique or something new, fresh ideas even doing something different, if you ain't creative what makes you think your stuff is unique? well everyone has their opinion about everything or about the course thus people see things differently .

I know some people would say maybe i would have taken the exam but i have my reasons - 1) He has no attitude or regard for anyone apart from himself.2) I can't even connect to the Lab always time out.3) If we can't agree on common issues i don't think i can deal with such person.4) Lastly he doesn't respect other people's views or opinion whatever he says that's it, his pride is clouding him cause i mailed him countless times concerning the issue but no response that means he doesn't want to refund he just want to keep the money .

Had a similar experience. I joined for pay monthly. The guy took the first months money and just emailed me to get my background. Once sent my information got no reply for the course timings and after getting tired of chasing him for couple weeks I started requesting for refunds. Till this date there has been no emails from him and He has blocked me on Skype etc.

The amount wasnt as big as yours but its some money that I will never see it back.

Last edited by prats84 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Very interesting experiences. Hmm. Well, I would certainly agree that if there was unused portion of the class and subscription remaining, most companies will refund the unused portion. I would review anything you signed, the sites policies. If there is no clause stating that there are no refunds, then I would say you have a legit gripe on that account. I would also consider inquiring about if he would refund the remaining amount if you did complete the course (i.e. the report)

I must say, I had a friend who had an experience with Hacking Dojo where they said they had contact issues as well... I cant confirm anything independently, but the situation was resolved eventually.

I dont know about attrition, I would personally reserve that for the most extreme and blatant cases. This seems more like disputes.

SephStorm wrote:Very interesting experiences. Hmm. Well, I would certainly agree that if there was unused portion of the class and subscription remaining, most companies will refund the unused portion. I would review anything you signed, the sites policies. If there is no clause stating that there are no refunds, then I would say you have a legit gripe on that account. I would also consider inquiring about if he would refund the remaining amount if you did complete the course (i.e. the report)

I must say, I had a friend who had an experience with Hacking Dojo where they said they had contact issues as well... I cant confirm anything independently, but the situation was resolved eventually.

I dont know about attrition, I would personally reserve that for the most extreme and blatant cases. This seems more like disputes.

Yeah you got that right but Hackingdojo doesn't want this issue to be solved i talked to him so many times but ignored me .

MaXe wrote:Even though I haven't had any bad experience with the Hacking Dojo, I think you should contact http://attrition.org/ about this. (Twitter: attritionorg , Email: jericho[at]attrition.org)

@MaXe thanks i will have to check that site out to see if they can help me out .

SephStorm wrote:I dont know about attrition, I would personally reserve that for the most extreme and blatant cases. This seems more like disputes.

I know taking this to Attrition is a bit extreme, but a security company who isn't dealing in an honest way? Every security company should know about Attrition, and the potential PR impact it has if you don't play fair in the industry. I don't want to see Hacking Dojo there, as I like it even though contact issues has known to occur, even for me (Basically because they are extremely busy with their other primary job as well.)

When I took the course, I never had a problem. Writing the report is part of the requirements of a course. I never moved out of the shodan class, because I never felt I learned enough to do the requirements to move up. But that was my issue, not a problem with the course.

As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don't like the teacher and drop. If it's past the drop date, you'll get nothing back. The University I'm at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

As for Attrition... be ready to answer lots and lots and lots of questions. if you want an idea of what it's like, check out the Exotic Liability episode, where Chris Nickerson talks about it. They know how to do journalism over there, and know the power of their brand, and try to use it wisely.

chrisj wrote:As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don't like the teacher and drop. If it's past the drop date, you'll get nothing back. The University I'm at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

The difference is that with a university, or other programs, these policies are clearly written into contracts, policy documents, or even web site terms. Hopefully Thomas has these in his course terms, but we'll find out. Get well soon Thomas.

Q: Do new students have access to all the levels of instruction at once? Or do students advance one level at a time?A: Students advance one level at a time and will only have access to their appropriate skill level. This ensures that a student has the demonstrable skills and knowledge for the next level before advancing; otherwise they would struggle with the new material and hinder the progress of others during the live mentor training sessions. Once the student has demonstrated to the instructor their competency in the skills needed to move on, they do so. Competency is demonstrated through completion of a hands-on, written and practice exam.

Q: What if I already know the Shodan material – do I have to pay for the training, or can I simply move onto the Nidan level?A: A new student that feels confident they can pass the Shodan exams should immediately ask to take the tests. The new student will have only one week to request the exams and successfully pass both the written and practical. If they fail to pass both, they must complete the Shodan material before moving onto the Nidan material.

Looks pretty clear to me...

~ hayabusa ~

"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved." - Sun Tzu, 'The Art of War'

Yeah it's looks clear to you, so what's wrong for me to cancel my subscription? & request for refund? so you mean i should let go of my money because of policy ? this is very clear take off the time i have stayed refund others what's wrong with that?

hayabusa wrote:I'm sure Thomas will speak for himself, but as for the question about being required to pass an exam before moving to the next level, this has been in his FAQ for quite some time:

Q: Do new students have access to all the levels of instruction at once? Or do students advance one level at a time?A: Students advance one level at a time and will only have access to their appropriate skill level. This ensures that a student has the demonstrable skills and knowledge for the next level before advancing; otherwise they would struggle with the new material and hinder the progress of others during the live mentor training sessions. Once the student has demonstrated to the instructor their competency in the skills needed to move on, they do so. Competency is demonstrated through completion of a hands-on, written and practice exam.

Q: What if I already know the Shodan material – do I have to pay for the training, or can I simply move onto the Nidan level?A: A new student that feels confident they can pass the Shodan exams should immediately ask to take the tests. The new student will have only one week to request the exams and successfully pass both the written and practical. If they fail to pass both, they must complete the Shodan material before moving onto the Nidan material.

Looks pretty clear to me...

chrisj wrote:

hen I took the course, I never had a problem. Writing the report is part of the requirements of a course. I never moved out of the shodan class, because I never felt I learned enough to do the requirements to move up. But that was my issue, not a problem with the course.

As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don't like the teacher and drop. If it's past the drop date, you'll get nothing back. The University I'm at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

As for Attrition... be ready to answer lots and lots and lots of questions. if you want an idea of what it's like, check out the Exotic Liability episode, where Chris Nickerson talks about it. They know how to do journalism over there, and know the power of their brand, and try to use it wisely.

I don't really get your point you mean if i am in the University i can't request for refund? or when student pay for a complete session & want to drop out they won't refund? that's new some times the way people make post they want to make you look stupid .

Last edited by Yet on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I didn't say the 'refund' situation was clear. That's between you and Thomas.

I was referring to your 'original' request of him, to bypass the exam. His policy was spelled out in the FAQ, clearly. So because you don't agree with, and want to follow, the standard policy, you requested a refund.

If you buy a software license, and disagree with it after a month, they generally won't refund it, based on time or other usage. You paid for, and had access to, intellectual property. I can understand your desire for a refund, but I can also understand his stance, if he doesn't. So it's a matter the two of you will have to work out.

At this point, it's between you and Thomas.

I'm glad you gave your opinions on the course and the situation, though. It's always good to get feedback, good or bad, so folks can make their own decisions.

~ hayabusa ~

"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved." - Sun Tzu, 'The Art of War'