Round 1 of Happ-vs-Oswalt goes to Trader Ed

I think a lot of you people owe Trader Ed Wade an apology. I hope you’re all like me and not afraid to admit you may have misjudged the man. J.A. Happ was all the Astros could have hoped for and then some in his first start.

”We saw a guy that knows how to pitch,” Brad Mills said.

We’re going to need awhile to digest all that has gone down this week. In two deals, the Astros traded their two most accomplished players, Roy Oswalt and Lance Berkman.

They picked up five players, most notably Happ and their new first baseman, Brett Wallace. In a couple of weeks, four of their five starting infielders will be rookies.

The Astros also got out from under around $14.5 million in salary obligations. I don’t care how they spend that money. If they shell out for free agents, I hope they shell out cautiously.

They’re not going to be really competitive for a couple of years at the earliest, so there’s no sense going crazy by adding veteran players. If they do add a veteran, here’s hoping for a short deal.

It was an emotional afternoon on Friday as Lance Berkman said his goodbyes. He’ll be reunited with one of his closest friends in New York, but as he said, Houston will always be home.

The Astros didn’t get a killer deal for him, but given his declining production maybe there was no killer deal to be had.

This week represents a new chapter in the history of the Astros, and there’s no way to know how quickly they’ll be competitive again. But they at least appear to have a realistic. plan to get back their. That’s a change.

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An unsuccessful pursuit of Oswalt left some bruises on the Cardinals front office. Astros general manager Ed Wade insisted a better player match and not a divisional rivalry led him to send Oswalt to the Philadelphia Phillies for a three-player package that included pitcher J.A. Happ. Mozeliak said he believed Wade’s characterization “a little overstated” and “a little bit of an odd comment.”—St. Louis Post Dispatch

65 Responses

They got ripped off by the Yankees. To get no serious big league prospects in return for your number 3 hitter and franchise player, and have to pay more of his salary than the Yankees will is ridiculous!!! If 8 teams were wanting to trade for him, then surely they could have done much better than this. Also, ESPN reported that if other teams knew the Astros would be willing to pick up 11 million of Oswalt’s salary, then they would have offered better prospects than the Phillies did. Sorry, but he is a terrible negotiator. Happ may be a good pitcher, but that doesn’t excuse his getting raped on everything else. The first baseman you are so proud of getting can’t even play defense! Drayton and Ed need to go. They have turned this team into the Pittsburg Pirates.

I haven’t been an Ed Wade fan, but he showed me something this weekend in terms of guts and doing the right thing. In essence Wade got Happ, Wallace and Villar (who potentially could turn into a serviceable major league player) for Oswalt. Not bad. For all of the money we threw in, I was hoping for something potentially great, but we seemed to get something that appears adequate.

The Oswalt trade makes us better by 2013, and that is how I am judging things. Trading Berkman was the right thing to do, and as an older player with declining production it was not realistic to expect us to come out of that trade with a “cant-miss” prospect. We need to evaluate Wallace and see what he can do at the big league level.

The Astros are finally interesting. They’re not good, but they are interesting. It might be a lot of fun to watch these kids develop and become relevant in the next few years.

I hope Trader Ed is not finished yet. There is still some time to get younger still….

What a sad day to be an Astros fan. I’ll always cherish what Oswalt and Berkman have done for our club. I’d like to think they both will be back at some point, but this absolutely had to be done. We’re such an incomplete ball club, and I hope the players we traded for can compete this year or next…

It is not that they are dumpning guys, it is that that they waited 2-3 years too long to do it. We have been begging to do this. They just waited too long and didn’t get what they could have if facts ruled and not emotions. I’m glad for the team and for Roy and Lance, it just should have happened 2 years ago. Lets hope the guys coming in are what they think they are.

I’m not the biggest Wade fan, and I’ve gone back and forth on these deals. Roy needed to go obviously, and I suspect he’s going to be in the decline more than expected, plus hopefully the young Astros pitchers will learn from their pitching coach instead of trying to emulate Roy’s poor mechanics.

I’m not sold on the Astros picking up so much of his contract-if he wanted out bad enough, make HIM eat the cost somehow. I don’t get them eating most of Berkman’s contract either. But on the upside it looks like Wade’s learned that trading for pitching is a good thing, and Happ looked good tonight. Hopefully Wade doesn’t turn around and trade young players for nothing and/or over the hill players.

Two comments: (1) you use the term “accomplished” for Oswalt and Berkman and I think the past tense fits as Berkman seems to be in decent decline and Roy O not the same pitcher (although statistically he is not bad

(2) I know Drayton won’t do this, but take $10M of what he saved, put it in the 2011 draft bonus fund on top of the normal pool, and then go draft the best talent you can each round and pay out of slot like the Yankees and Red Sox do – that’s a lot better investment than throwing money at the Ty Wiggintons of the world

No apology offered, or due, Richard. While Jay pitched exceptionally, and should receive highly deserved praise for doing so, that’s not the crux of the issue. The Astros could win the next 25 games and it won’t make any difference – this year is already gone. The key to assessing Ed’s performance is whether he is positioning the team for success in 2012 and beyond.

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By that standard, the deal is very much open to question. Getting none of the Phillies top 4 prospects for Roy still looks like underachieving. And adding an out of shape overweight player who is a defensive liability isn’t the obvious move – we already have at least one too many of these. Similarly, a toolsy infielder who doesn’t hit well isn’t among our long-term priorities. Perhaps these will work out, perhaps Jay will re-sign with the Astros and be valuable in 2012 and beyond, perhaps the Astros will get long-term prospects from the Yankees for Lance, perhaps they can find a team who is willing to pay $1-2 million of Carlos’s salary, and perhaps there are 2-3 last-minute trades beyond Lance, but only time will tell. If many, or most, of these things happen, then Ed will have done exceptionally well, indeed.

Just looked up the Houston roster from the magical WS run of 2005. With the trading of Roy and Lance there are only two players from that year on the current roster: Wandy and Q.

That said, Lance Berkman’s departure is affecting me far more than I thought it would. I watched the game tonight hoping that he’d show up at the ballpark in the late innings for one last PH appearance. The guy’s a class act all the way and I hope he does well with the Yankees.

not sure i see the point in this trade, given that it looks like the stros got very little from nyk. it’s sort of like eddie traded himself into a corner when he got wallace for first base and suddenly the yankees saw that not only did wade want to get rid of berkman, he had to. here, ed, here’s a couple of guys we’re not impressed with for a guy we think will hit for us because he’ll have a reason to.

All I have to say is I actually feel sorry for Oswalt. After one start those rabid Philly fans are already eating him alive. Asking for Happ back haha… I will admit Happ looked downright killer tonight, as mills said the man just flat out knows how to pitch. I really enjoyed watching him pitch tonight and I hope he has a great Houston career ahead of him. Now bring up Brett and let’s get this thing rolling, I really don’t prefer to see a Blum/Feliz platoon at 1st, let’s see if this kid has game. I guess Wade can remove that so called ” fleece” from his buttcrack and mail it back to Philly.

Mark Melancon looks like he might be a decent relief pitcher. I’ve read 3 different scouting reports that suggest he might have cracked the Bombers’ bullpen either this year or next. He has 3 reliable pitches and can touch 96 mph on the gun. If he ends up being something tangible, then I say this trade was worth it. As for Berkman, I think he’ll find a way to come back to this organization at some point, either as a player or as part of the staff. We’ve not seen the last of The Puma.

Good point Richard. J.A. Happ was real imprressive. I’ll admit I’ve been hard on Ed, but he deserves it. These trades might work out for us. Who knows? trading guys like these and you never feel like you get what they’re worth. And another thing I realize the more distance these guys are becoming the more I realize, they aren’t that good anymore. They both might still have fumes in the ol gas tank, but that’s all they are, just fumes. I’ve taken off my homer glasses and realized that getting 5 prospects for 2 old guys ain’t all that bad.

I like what I see of Jimmy Paredes. fourth year in A ball but good numbers at every stop. Hit 300 last year and is having a breakout season at chaleston this year. And is only 21. He could very well be playing at Corpus before the year is out, and stop for a cup of coffee in H Town before the end of 2011.

The Yankees know how to pick ‘em and they don’t often let one slip by. But nobody’s perfect.

Id hold back all the praise to see if Happ ends up being the only serviceable player we got out of this deal. Sending Berkman and Oswalt two greats in their careers out of town for one guy. When we see if anything else pans out? Then we can say Wade has done something. So far its a younger pitcher than Roy Oswalt. Thats good but what else for Berkman too? That makes these dealings good or bad. Plus what Ed decides to do in the offseason replacing Roy Oswalt to add to Happ and also Berkman with a solid middle of the lineup guy who has power. Surely the owner should be able to afford it now. That “EXCUSE” he is losing money wont cut it. He just shed that money and losing money by losing games next season is more of a argument against that silly assumption or statement rather. As evidence with empty seats in a stadium with a losing team this season. Add to Happ and these youngsters in the offseason. develop more young talent. Send Carlos Lee out next and continue to shed the fat from the team and add younger talent with a better use of money. Add speed and bat power at the same time. Add a player who can hit homeruns and play defense pretty well in Carlos Lees spot and for the money he was making when you get rid of him. The blue print is there for a quick turnaround.

for what berkman did this year you have to like what we got in return, we werent going to get cano or phil hughes or anything like that, What we did get though is someone who could make it in our bullpen now and possibly a SS in about 2-4 years. This just helped speed up the rebuilding process, I dont get how so many people are down on it

This reminds me of how I felt when dream(oswalt is begining his too, it will show soon) was on a decline. We never want it to happen, but it happens to everyone. These are the first two dominate houston astro players over considerable time to leave during my young 26 year old life time that I can remember. Its sad, but its business. Carlos is declining as well. Its only a matter of time.

I’m hoping that we sign some solid vets in the off-season to short-term deals that help fill holes temporarily, then we have some chips to flip off at the deadline next season. Like the Pudge Rodriguez deal when we flipped him to the Rangers. Drayton can make some moves to draw interest from the (blind) fans, and then Wade can flip them off at the deadline for a few more prospects.

So Richard if they aren’t going to be competitive for a couple of years can we be so lucky to see Carlos Lee ask to get out of Dodge? Now that the Oswalt and Berkman are gone and with the departure of Tejada this past offseason will this be his cue to leave?

I am proud of Big Puma. Is he having a bad year? yep. Is he on the backside of a great career? yep. We all know this. But more important, Berkman was a gentleman who represented Houston and Texas with the utmost class. Finish your trip up-country Puma,. we look forward to seeing ya when you get back home.

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P.S. more radio time would be nice, KGOW would probably pay you in chicken wings and aftershave, (ask RJ) but they’ll give anybody a show over there..(looking at you Hoffman)

Fact is they are playing .500 for over a month. Doesn’t look like they gave up anything so far.

Wallace at first probably will bat at least .250, hit some doubles/homers, and play decent defense. They picked up minor league guys that play 3B, SS, and 2B with speed, and a decent AAA reliever. If they add in three $4.5M/year younger quality free agents with the salary dump, they could be the start of a good team as early as right now.

That’s another If. AND, If they can play .500 while having speed and good young players at least the games will be exciting to watch and attend.

Stagnant older players without decent, aggressive offense is just not fun to watch. Like rookie Chris Johnson “Earl Weaver-ing” the Brewers while on a 14 game hitting streak. Happ working out of a early jam and having to battle batters with a fairly high pitch count – and still tossing a goose egg (fairly “Oswalt – like” wasn’t it).

What cracks me up is thinking we should have gotten “higher” rated PROSPECTS than what we did. The chance of a prospect making it is fairly low whoever it is that’s not named Strasburg or Pujols. Part of the reason to get the ones we did might be the positions they play vs. the “higher rated” others.

For instance, according to the Yankee’s own press, Melancon was destined to crack the 12 pitcher roster next with “closer” stuff. The take was he was too nervous the first time up and couldn’t find his control, which he shouldn’t have a problem with pitching for the Astros. In the minors his control has been very good.

Paredes is a .300 switch hitting SS/3B with gold glove potential and excellent speed and base running ability. They say his power should improve with age.

Imagine that, the Astros with a potential Jeter replacement, and a plus reliever for a World Series team with a $200M payroll for allowing the Yankees to rent Berkman for 3 months while saving $10 million…

I’m excited. Chris Johnson looks like the real deal, Keppinger is solid, Sanchez is off to a good start, Happ looked great, we’ve got two excellent outfielders and two decent defensive catchers. Sorry Oswalt and Berman had to go, but they both could flame out and be done in a short period of time. If Berkman is still wearing a uniform in 2012 I’ll be surprised.

Funny, I thought this was a good deal, guess what, at least for now, I am right. And all you Ed Wade haters are wrong, and I’m glad. It’s about time you people started figuring out that you are not the GM, and you don’t anything about being a GM, so don’t even talk like you know, because you don’t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Richard, I am glad I’m not like a lot of Astros fans and the media, I actually look how things will work out before I start saying they won’t work out. Instead of saying the Astros won’t compete next year, I wait till next August to say anthing. Instead of saying the Astros suck, I wait to see the moves they are going to make at the end of the year. I ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT I SAY!

For all the money we dumped in the two deals we could have given Carlos Lee away, renegotiated Berkman’s deal and still had a year to flip Berkman and Oswalt.

As in all deals, time will tell. If Haap’s injury earlier this year was not serious and likely to cause reoccuring issues, we have a good pitcher who will hopefully give us more years than Oswalt would have; if he does, anything else is gravy.

But the Berkman deal puzzles me – if we are basically covering his salary, was this just a favor to him so he could have a shot at a ring in 2010 and wear the pinstripes like his boyhood idol Mickey Mantle? Because there are other teams (Angels, etc.) crying for a guy with his skills and I can’t believe the Yankee deal was the best they could do.

And if there’s any truth to the rumors that a few other teams would have offered more for Oswalt had they known they could collect $10-11 million as part of the deal, Wade has some splainin’ to do, Luuucyyyy…

I’m a little surprised so many people are up in arms over these deals. The Astros had two guys that clearly are on the back side of their careers and not in future plans at all. If Wade comes up with one good player(doesn’t have to be a perennial allstar, just a solid everyday guy) I thinks its a good deal. Berkman wouldn’t be here next year and I think Roy is overvalued. They needed to get younger and cheaper, we should at least hold judgement until we see if they can play.

What will the fans do with their Puma suits that they paid a pretty penny for? Hang them in a closet, for when and if the Astros play the Yankees again, or have a big bonfire somewhere—- I recommend the bonfire, give them to the Aggies!

Funny thing happened on the Oswalt trade, he lost to the last place team in the NL East Division, and the Phillies went from 2 ½ to 3 ½ games out of first place to the Hot Lanta Braves. The Phillies who had won eight games in a row lost with Roy Boy!

And we won with our trade result pitcher Happ, who is 2-0 on the season and has an ERA of 1.27 for the season. We got a new ACE behind Rodriguez and Myers.

But best of all for us Astro fans, we now are 13 ½ games out of first place and 16 games under .500, BUT now only 2 ½ games behind Chicago and only 4 games behind the beer makers that we have two more games in this home series with, Milwaukee. And Wandy going tonight!

The season is not lost by a long shot! Not until we are eliminated mathematically.

Let me say that I am shocked that they have traded Lance Berkman, by far the team’s most valuable player. A person that is from Houston and wants to stay in Houston. Just shocked.

I was selling programs at Colt Stadium in 1964 when they traded Rusty Staub. Didn’t even phase me, even though he was my favorite player at the time and the teams #1 young player.

I was working at a gas station working my way through UH when they traded Joe Morgan. I thought it was dumb but I didn’t feel any sadness or regret.

But Lance Berkman being traded is different. This marks the end of “something” and IMHO is sad. The team has been building momentum since 1980 even before Bagwell/Biggio. There was Jimmy Wynn, Nolan Ryan and then the Phillies playoff series.

Then the Biggio/Bagwell era took the growth to a new level with help from Caminiti, Finley, Gonzalez, Lima, et al. There all gone now and the torch was passed to Berkman to carry ….. and I feel like the torch was ripped out of his hand.

Yep, this is a sad day to be a long time Astro fan. I ask you, would the Braves have traded Chipper Jones?

Nice commentary article on Lance Berkman. He’s a Texan (native) has always shown so and shall remain. Ironic he has to take a side trip to NYC, which is all things non-Texas. I do not see him staying there beyond next season, if that, depending on whether he has resurgence with the bat in Yankee pinstripes or not these last 8-9 weeks. One can hope he might return to the Astros for a last season (or two). For that, he would really have to have had the resurgence he says he’s capable of, and then how exactly does he get back? Will there be a place for him in Houston, resurgence or not? There is a coaching position (hitting?) possibility one can suppose. Note he’s just leaving and already one can talk about his return. That’s what he’s meant to this Astro fan and one can believe, many others. Your commentary article was better stated in this regard than this effort. I re-iterate from a previous post, all your baseball stuff of late has been very on target, insightfull and appreciated here.

RJ, just saw you on MLB Network on the 11 a.m. hour your time. I know Dunn is from SE TX, but why wouldn’t they get someone closer to DC to talk about this? Is his agent in Houston? Your legion of sources must span the country, if not the world.

Disappointed you didn’t get to talk about the Astros in this section. Maybe in the others you did.

Re the trade – it’s only one game. I wish Roy the best, but sure am glad that Happ did well.

The bleating by ‘anonymous’ GMs that they didn’t know the Astros would throw in $11 mil is classic CYA by incompetents – why didn’t they know ? Didn’t they call Ed and ask ? I’m pretty sure he would have listened……Although the return for Oswalt/Berkman was not what we’d like, let’s face it – their value vs. cost just wasn’t there. Finally, any prospects from other teams are welcome, as anyone who has witnessed the dreck in the current Astros farm system can attest to…..If 1-2 of these kids develop, it’s a win.

Drayton will now sell the team within the next year. He’s old, tired and sick of criticism by everybody, you included. What if Cuban buys the Astros? That would be interesting, but I fear he would interfere with the team far more than Drayton. Astros need someone who spends like Cuban but keeps quiet like the Steelers’ Rooney.

With the Texans doomed to disaster (6-10 or worse with than schedule and no backup QB when Schaub gets hurt), I’m ready for Rockets basketball!

Saw Lance Berkmans interview on MLBN. I’m not an expert on body language, but he did not look all that thrilled to be there yet. It’s sad to watch a guy like him go, spending all his time in one place. I would never cheer for the Yankees, but I want Berkman to win. Go Fat Elvis ( Should be his nickname in NY)

The Astros weren’t going to get anything for Berkman so shipping him out avoids the discomfort of him sitting on the bench while the new kid plays. I give Ed Wade a pass on the Berkman gift to the Yankees. On the other hand, hearing the Astros are about to sign Myers to a long-term deal makes me wonder if Wade traded his brain with Berkman, as it makes no sense at all. If he was a trade-able asset why in the world would they not have dealt him? This sounds like a Pedro Feliz-like evaluation. He may be having a good season but that means get prospects for him while you can, don’t tie up dollars in another Woody Williams signing.

“They’re not going to be competitive for a couple years at the earliest.”

RJ, did you know the Astros are playing .500 ball since May.

The Padres were 75-87 last year. That’s why I am still debating these trades. If Happ is as good as he looks then yes that trade made sense. But Berkman is a puzzle. Didn’t save that much money. Didn’t pick up any real prospects. Why not keep him this year and resign him at a lower price next year. What if we are better than we think. It would sure be nice to still have Berkman in our lineup. If Brett Wallace was the problem then whats wrong with insurance. If Bourne can’t find it, Berkman could still play right. I just hate to see Berkman let go for a couple million.

I just like the guy. I don’t think he is finished. he still has pop in his bat and his OBP is by far the highest on the club.

Long time no comment, Richard, but had to write in now that Drayton has finally done what we’ve wanted him to do for the last few years in starting the rebuilding process. No more patching a leaky hole only to have three more spring up in its place. With this weekend’s trades, the youth movement, and building for a better tomorrow has begun in earnest. Will miss the hell out of Roy and Lance, but still, we knew it had to be done, and now that we’ve turned the page on that chapter, I’m more excited about our ‘Stros than I have been the last two seasons.

Astros: They traded Oswalt, Berkman and $15 million and didn’t get a single prospect who projects as a core player on a championship team. You wouldn’t think that would be possible. Brett Wallace is a complementary player, a first baseman who doesn’t hit quite enough to bat in the middle of the lineup on a great team. Mark Melancon can be the second- or third-best reliever in a good bullpen. Happ? Fourth starter. Jonathan Villar? He could develop into a shortstop who bats seventh, or second on a bad team.

It’s a disappointment for Astros fans, who now face a team that has dealt away its identity and has little chance of contending in the short- or medium-term. On the other hand, Drayton MacLane saved about $12 million, so that should make it all better for them.

I am a diehard Phillies fan. I am very sad to see Happ go. To you Astros fans – he is the best. A super classy guy, a hard worker, humble to a fault, and likeable as can be. Even if he doesn’t finish this year off strong, he will be back. I believe the Phillies coaching staff killed him in the postseason last year the way they abused him. But he is young and a real trooper. I wish him all the best and ask you Astros fans to treat him well.

“It’s about time you people started figuring out that you are not the GM, and you don’t anything about being a GM, so don’t even talk like you know, because you don’t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Don’t drink and post, dude.

“I ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT I SAY!”

Wow, put the crack pipe down. Yeah, it’s all about YOU, Andy.

I’m hoping you already realize you’re an idiot and a frontrunner so you don’t have to read it here. But just in case, I’m posting.

The Rusty Staub trade happened in 1969 and not in 1964. Originally, the Astros were to receive firstbaseman Donn McClendon and outfielder Jesus Alou. McClendon did not want to come over to the Astros. Along with Alou, the Astros received as compensation, pitcher Jack Billlingham, catcher Jack Guinn(?) and another player or two. Anyway, that is what my memory banks come up with concerning the trade.

We can’t judge this trade for some time. A lot of factors that can’t be evaluated right now. If Phillies go to the WS and Oswalt contributes it’s a big plus for PP. We will see how Hap does the remainder of this year and next year. Plus let’s see how the prospects do as well. It’s far too early to pass any type of judgement.