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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Hello all, I am new to Pianoworld forum and very grateful to amazing advice found here. I had to sign up because I want to learn more from you and grow in my skill – no better place than here IMO. So, with that in mind, this is my first post.

This is my story (sorry in advance for long post):

1. My desire: I have been shopping a home digital piano for about a year now. I have a budget between $2k-3K. This is a lot of money for me but it is worth every penny to feed my passion for piano.

2. My skill level: I have been playing piano for about 20 years, blessed to play by ear. I can’t begin to tell you how much pleasure it is to learn a song and play it for as many people as I can. A pro might be very judgmental of my talent, but my listeners seem very happy and impressed when I play. Either way – I don’t care, just love to play as much as can.

3. My situation: I have been playing a semi-old Yamaha P22 studio since 1997ish. Nothing fancy , but I loved that piano and had to give it up when I moved to Boston last year. I miss it so much past year that I started shopping for another the minute I moved here. Do to my situation; a digital piano is my best option. I never owned a digital piano before, so I have been reviewing and tested between Yamaha, Roland, and Kawai digital pianos. Wow, technology is amazing with all three!

4: Final choice: trying to make a long story short; after trying MANY digital pianos, I felt that Kawai digital pianos seemed to be the best (for me) in quality, action, and sound, especially the CA65 & CA95, but as you know – very expensive. The dealer said he would sell me the CA65 for $2,975. Pefect! In my price range, action the same, sounds exactly the same as CA95 (w/ headphones), etc. Done deal – so I thought…

5: Conundrum: So after playing the CA65 on three separate occasions totaling about 6 hours of play I was ready to purchase. I went to the dealer last Friday with cash in hand to purchase the CA65. The dealer was with a client so I had a little time to kill. I was poking around his shop and sat in front of the Kawai ES7. I thought it looked like a nice portable so I thought I would play it just to kill some time. Well, all I can say is HOLY S*** - THIS IS AWESOME! Action, sound, size, simplicity, technology, price ($1.899), etc, etc. I immediately bonded with this gorgeous piano and played it for a ½ hour. The dealer finished his meeting and met with me. I told him how much I loved the ES7 and he agrees Kawai did a great job upgrading from the ES6. I continued to play it for about another 90 minutes and did not want to stop.

6: Conclusion: I did not buy the CA65 or the ES7 because now I am so confused. I love both pianos. Don’t care about size, portability, or looks. Whatever I chose will permanently remain in my modest den. I told the dealer I will let him know next week and buy either or.

Help: please give me any thoughts if your own or familiar with either CA65 & ES7. I really cant decide. I don’t care about many feature such as rhythms and multiply sounds. Just want a great piano sound and feel in a solid digital piano. I truly appreciate your time. This is a big decision for me as I plan to have this piano for many years.

The ES7's specifications are very strong, however the CA65 is undoubtedly the superior instrument in terms of tonal quality and action realism. If you do not intend to use the ES7's rhythm section feature, nor require a portable instrument, the CA65 is arguably the better choice.

By the way, it sounds like the dealer in Boston is a great store! For me, the positive experience that you've had underlines the value of 'bricks and mortar' stores. Of course, buying online is all well and good, but when it comes to making decisions about a new piano on a subjective, personal level, there's absolutely no substitute for being able to sit down and play the instrument for an extended period.

I own the CA-63 and loved the action but not a big fan of the sound through the built-in speakers. I spent the last year trying to find a way to get a sound I like via software and/or external speakers. I got to a place that was fair but not what I really wanted.

A few days ago I purchased the ES7 and my initial reaction was similar to yours ... great key action and great sound.

After having played it for awhile I have come off that initial "high" and have found that the sound, although very good, is not as good as I play with more volume (loudness). It can begin to get a little thin. Considering the small onboard speakers, this is not to be unexpected.

I am now looking into additional components (equalizers, external speakers, mixers, etc ...) which may help with this.

That said, I could (and very well, may) leave it as is. The speakers are not bad as is. I will make one run at better and then leave it alone.

In all other respects, I like it very much ... especially the rhythms that come with the instrument. Also, I can insert a USB device containing MIDI accompaniments to play along with. That is very nice also.... for me.

mitzysman: It does sound like I answered my own question, however, I might just be on the initial "high" that dmd mentioned.

dmd: it sure was a "high" playing that awesome board. You might have a point about loudness though. I like to crank it occasionally. I noticed a tiny bit of distortion when hitting lower keys loudly. Maybe a sub woofer would help the small-ish speaker sound.

Kawai James: I agree that the CA65 is the far superior of the two, but both are of the same ilk for sure. Both are so nice in overall quality , just different in class. ie. like comparing a Mercedes E class to a Mercedes C class - both near perfect just different size and features. Does that makes sense?

Any other CA65 or ES7 owners out there want to chime in? Im interested in what your decision making process was just before you bought your Kawai. Also, your current experience like what dmd wrote about. I appreciate your help as I hope to make a purchase this weekend.

I think you had better go and play them some more. Take your own headphones this time; maybe, in preparation, download the user manuals from the Kawai website and pore over them a bit.

I use outboard speakers by Yamaha (plus a subwoofer) when I want to have the sound 'in the room,' with my MP8ii. Not everyone would care for the look, but it sure delivers.

Kawai is a fine make, with very good customer service. Just go back and play yourself blue in the face--- and if you still aren't sure, do it again another day. James' advice is well-considered, but you have to decide for yourself.

Thanks Jeff, that is great advice and exactly what I plan to do after work today. I did use my Bose headphones with me last few times. Both sound SO good - which makes so hard to choose. Funny, Im so caught up in playing both pianos that I did not even think of downloading manuals. Good call! Doing it right now.

You should take the one that feels better regardless the price (within your budget of course :-)The most important aspect of a digital is the keys. Everything else can be enhanced afterwards (active boxes, VSTi etc). The ES7 has the PH2, the CA65 the GrandFeel action. Both feel very different. I tried both at a local store and liked the PH2 more than the GrandFeel. That's a very subjective feeling and i'm not a very experienced player. Also my Teacher has an upright with a similar feel. Quite heavy action. In comparison the GrandFeel felt sluggish. If my Teacher had a Grand, i would have probably said the exact opposite :-)

Anyway i am perfectly happy with my CN34 (same action as the ES7). Lucky for me as the Ca65 was way beyond my budget :-)

I apologize for contributing toward "Budget Creep" but I have to say I would certainly take a good hard look into the CA-95 before I purchased the CA-65. For someone with acoustic piano background the CA-95 soundboard might be very appealing.

dmd: Love the CA95, but $4K+ ouch! Im just trying to pretend it doesn't exist. I really have to keep to my budget and $3K is pushing it hard.

MagicK: You might be on to something with the feel of the RHII vs Grand Feel. To quote myself regarding ES7 "I immediately bonded with this gorgeous piano.." The ES7 was so playable, easy and responsive you almost feel like you're cheating on an exam. Then something about CA65 felt more professional, genuine, and challenging that is would help me improve my playing. Sorry, im not very articulate in my explanations, but I completely understand that action is such a personal preference that no one can really say which is best for anyone.

ES7 / CA65 ; not the same thing. Very important is which keybed you like the most and probably keep on liking in the long run. If you prefer RHII over GF - can hardly imagine, but it's possible - then the ES7 will save you a lot of money. However the speakers and sound engine on the CA-65 are better than on the ES7 . Both are very nice instruments, but hard to compare - one is a 'portable' , the other a cabinet DP and they are in a different price range - resulting in different specs.

Make a list: features you find most important on top and stuff your care less about below (price is also a feature ;-). Then put the specs of both piano's behind the list and find the best match.

Good luck !

P.S. I bought the ES7 while especially considering price, portability and space requirements . If these features are not important to you, the CA series seems to me a better choice. If you DO like the RHII very much AND still want a cabinet DP , the CN34 is perhaps an alternative ? Not that you can go very wrong with any of these three...- I personally would opt for the CA if price/ portability/ space are no issues...

Hi Qbert, I obviously love the ES7, but the stand w/ 3 pedal (HM4 & F301) is around $400-450. Plus will need a bench and maybe subwoofer. Yet, still cheaper than CA65.

ES7 total package is around $2,500CA65 total package is $2,995

This is whats making my decisions so hard. Just as I lean towards ES7 I start thinking about $$ and CA65. For an extra $500 and very little compromise I can have a high end Kawai which also happens to be one of the best DPs on the market today.

I'll know more today when the Kawai dealer opens at 10am. Im planning to buy either one SOON if not today. Got $3k cash in hand. See if I can beat up the dealer a bit and get best deal possible. BTW, not sure if Pianoworld allows mentioning dealer's names in the forum, but this dealer is such an outstanding and knowledgeable guy. He has not put on ANY pressure whatsoever to buy, answers all my questions, and lets me hang out in his shop unattended for as long as I need to play. I also believe he is sincere and honest due to the fact that he encourage me to go play as many DPs as I can that he doesn't carry or sell. And I did, which is why I ruled out Roland, Korg, Nord, Casio, Kurzweil, and Yamaha (personal preference only - all make some incredible DPs that were pretty amazing to hear and play.) It will be my pleasure to give him my business and send him as many referrals as I can. Hopefully soon so I can just start playing again.

I purchased the Kawai CA 65 about 3 and half months ago. I must say it is a good instrument, best in its price range. Nothing comes close, in my opinion. I learn about it everyday, it's got some pretty cool features. And the internal songs in the piano are a pleasure to listen to. 3 months on, it still amazes me.

For me, I was considering the Yamaha CLP 440, Roland Hp505 and Kawai CA65.I quickly dismissed Yamaha because I felt it was too average and nothing too slick about it. And I didn't like the clunkiness of the keys. I can't stand clunky keys.

So I started comparing the HP505 and th CA65. I must say tho that the Roland HP505 has a clunky keyboard too, perhaps louder than Yamaha but I'd happily take the Roland over Yamaha because it has woodtone keys. And it's got better speakers and is louder and just sounds better.

But for me the Kawai was the winner hands down. I just love the Grand Feel Action. It is by far the quietest board as far as clunkiness is concerned. The action is great, the sound is great too, of course all this is subjective, but all I'm saying is you won't regret your decision if you purchase it.

Also just a thank you to the forum, coz I was so close to buying th Yamaha, but found out about Kawai on this forum. I didn't even know Kawai did digital pianos until about 5 months ago. Anyways good luck.

I'm also the proud owner of the Kawai CA65 since a couple of months. I made the decision after searching the internet for reviews. Most reviews are very positive concerning the higher end DP's from Kawai. In the store they had other brands too ( Roland ), but those didn't have the same nice touch as the CA65/95.I don't use all the bells and whistles that come with it, I just needed a good DP with an action as realistic as possible and with a good sound. And I'm happy with the choice I made. I'm still a beginner ( only Burgmullers Arabesque, Musette in D, Menuet 114 etc in my 'repertoire' ) so take my view with a big grain of salt...Recently I played on the Kawai K3 accoustic and I was honestly a bit underwelmed by the sound I got from it. Probably my expectations were too high, but still, I appreciate the clear sound from my CA65 more. Maybe it's just because I'm used to that sound.

Well, I finally made a purchase this afternoon. I loved this piano from the start in the store and now hopefully at home. It financially makes sense for what my needs are and skill level.

And the winner is.....

ES7!

Thoughts so far after 6 hours of nonstop play now in my house:

PROS:- great deal - paid $1700 in tax free NH- feel/action RHII is outstanding for portable- 30 sounds - more than enough. only wanted a handful of piano sounds- piano sounds absolutely amazing through Bose headphones- size; can bring it with me anywhere. Fits perfectly in my den (and car when needed to travel.)- 100 rhythm section sounds great. Did not think I wanted but liked immediately. Fun and authentic sounding, - many nice features same as CA65&95 for $1,000 less. However, CA65 is superior in MANY ways only depending on what you want and/or need in a DP.

CONS- speakers are ok at mid volume. Distortion in left speaker at lower keys especially D and A when hit hard and semi-loud. WT* Kawai? why only 15x15w speakers in such an amazing piano! The distortion is not as bad but similar to FP7F that I tested last month - which was one of several reason i ruled it out. Again, not as bad but still a bummer. I had to plug in my Polk subwoofer asap to see if it would make it better. Big help! However, my bad, I should have cranked it in the shop when I had the chance.

First impression: This is an absolutely amazing portable piano. Best sound and action of any portable Yamaha, Roland, Nord and Korg I tested. Yes, the speakers are weak but still sound pretty good at low levels. Subwoofer a must if you want to beef it up. I bought the ES7 mostly to practice with headphones and it sounds beyond my expectations. IMO better than Roland FP7f, 700nx, later Yamaha CPs and just as good as CA65/95... unless you have incredible dog-like hearing. Again, IMO only. Bottom line - If next ES(8?) uses CP300 speakers, Kawai just might have the best portable DP ever.

Ill keep you posted with detailed reviews on ES7 if you want. Let me know if you want me to start a new post or just continue w this post.

Mostly, Thanks to everyone in this forum who responded and helped me in my buying process.

In return, If needed, I will try to answer as many questions best I can about ES7 and other DPs I tested. Keep in mind Im not a pro pianist by any means. Just self taught performer that's been playing by ear for about 25 years. But I think I got the hang of it by now

I also have an issue with distortion but with mostly a single key (the E a 3rd up from middle C) and I am wondering if the distortion you speak of is only speakers or do you hear it with your phones also ?

I hear mine with phones, also ... so I do not think it has anything to do with the speakers.