I’ve written before about Modern Men Being Too Lazy to Court due in part to advancements in technology, like the computer, cell phone, and the evil cesspit of modernization known as “Facebook”. However, I never touched on how modern men became lazy in the first place. Technology is not the only culprit behind the rise of lazy men, because not all men are focused on meeting women on-line. In fact, many men still meet women the old fashioned way – in places that range further than from behind their computer or smart phone.

Technology has merely exposed what many women have been lamenting for years: men are lazy in their pursuit of women and generally take the easiest route possible to do so. This is highly ironic when you consider the fact that most women measure their value in a man’s life not by his words but by the effort he puts forth in pursuing them. This is the same environment where you have a corresponding – and likely much higher – number of men doing all in their power to invest the least amount of effort possible in pursuing these women. This is an obvious recipe for disaster. To avoid confusion here, let me state unequivocally that I believe modern men are lazier than past generations of men.

From my non-scientific observations, most men are lazier in both their courting activities and their general willingness to court at all. At some point, we’re all young and just looking to have fun. This wouldn’t be an issue if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact that this group of men also contains the same group of men women will eventually expect to grow up, court them, date them and commit to them. Instead, for many women, it seems like men their age (and older) are still just looking to have fun. This is why a number of women are frustrated by the perceived lack of men they have to choose from when they are ready to settle down. I covered this topic in, Do Women Have Less Good Men to Choose From.

If women keep saying there aren’t enough good, marrying-aged, stable men to choose from and men keep saying there are plenty of good men to choose from, except women aren’t choosing those men, which one is right, men or women? Honestly, the answer is closer to, “both” than either party being outright wrong. While there are plenty of reasons for why this situation exist, today I want to focus on the evolution of the lazy man and how his rise to power complicates the dating environment for everyone…

In the Beginning

When it comes to pursuing women, most modern men of potential marrying age and reasonable stability are lazy.There, I said it. There are a number of reasons why men are lazy, and not all of those reasons are their fault, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are lazy when it comes to dating, courting, and well, just about anything that doesn’t directly benefit them or have a defined, measurable return on investment. How did this happen?

Most young (and some grown) men are not self-sufficient.

When men are young and generally have nothing to offer the dating pool other than game, a winning smile and a charming personality, they are beyond aggressive when it comes to pursuing women. More importantly, they don’t need to justify their pursuits. The only thing they desire is the company of a woman. They don’t demand that she know how to cook, remain beautiful at all times and always weigh a certain amount, or whatever other arbitrarily subjective measurement of a woman Twitter/Facebook is arguing about this week. No, all men want for their efforts when they’re young is a woman.

If you disagree, you need travel no further than your local 18 – 21+ club and bask in the the vigor those young men will demonstrate in their pursuit of everything that resembles a woman. It’s almost awe-inspiring. Using myself as an example, my college-aged friends and I literally referred to this period as, “chasing” or “putting in work.”

Editor’s Note: If you’re like the psychologist from the beginning of Baby Boy whose narrative explored the unspoken meaning of words behind black men referring to their home as “the crib” and their friends as “boys,” you might take a moment to reflect on the meaning behind the various slang terms men use to opine on their feelings toward any given number of actions. Above, we referred to approaching women as “work” in one instance, even though many women think approaching women is easy and men enjoy doing so. This is not necessarily the same viewpoint men have of the action, but we recognize it is a necessary evil as a means to an end – meeting women. As another slang term goes, “a close mouth doesn’t get fed.” However, when’s the last time you referred to a hobby you enjoyed as “work”?

Since we didn’t have much to offer women in the form of drinks and other material purchases (a nice way of saying we were broke), we had to find a way to get women to find us interesting, worthy of their time & phone numbers, and worthy of their companionship by using some form of persuasion that didn’t involve significant monetary expenditures. Compare your younger observations with a club; lounge; or happening spot where marriageable-aged people frequent. Of course, if the atmosphere of places where you hang out isn’t noticeably different from when you were closer to 21 versus 31, then you might want to re-evaluate some other areas of your life. No judgement!

1

A Change Is Gonna Come

As we get older and our station in life improves, men start to become, you guessed it, lazier. Before, we’d go to the club and we’d consider it a “bad night” if we didn’t get at least 10+ numbers between the group. In our mid-20s, we found we spent less and less time in the sole pursuit of women. Quality overtook quantity. Why chase after 10 numbers from five 2’s, three 5’s, and two 7’s, when we could apply ourselves and maybe get 3 numbers from two 8’s and one 10?

The metrosexual rose – and mankind fell!

Some nights we were content simply heading out and having a good time. If we got 10 numbers or 0 numbers it really didn’t matter. The experience became greater than the pursuit. It wasn’t that we weren’t interested in meeting women. It’s that our priorities changed. Meeting a woman or group of women was cool, but it wasn’t the only determining factor for whether we had a “good night,” especially when experience had taught us that the majority of women we meet will not result in something particularly meaningful – and that was ok. We can all have a good time and it doesn’t have to go anywhere (see the VIP lounge). But, as men, we had to find other measures of what defined a good time besides meeting large quantities of strange women with no future beyond 24-hours.

We slowly accepted that we didn’t have to live the “YOLO” lifestyle every night, because chances are we could do it again another weekend, in another club, or in another city. While we didn’t see it this way as men, women began to view our approaches as increasingly lazier. They were right, too. We weren’t chasing them as much and some in the group even began to declare that they were over chasing women and putting in work, period. They were “retiring.” When it came to courting, some men were content becoming more like…women.

Instead of pursuing women and impressing them, these men began to expect women to pursue and impress them (known as ‘Diva Dudes’ in some circles). In their minds, they had put in sufficient work in their younger days. Now that they were in a better place, their expectations of what they should be expected to do to meet women changed as well. As a former well-paid Director confided in me once, “you have to work really hard to get to a point where you don’t hardly work.”

Rise of the Lazy Man

Today, right or wrong, it’s as if modern men have to be sold on the benefits of a committed relationship/marriage. Entire groups of marriageable-aged men are perfectly content not approaching, courting, or putting in any significant amount of work to meet marriageable-aged women. Even worse, a lot of them don’t have to. Grown men whom I’ve personally witnessed chase women across clubs, lounges, bars, parking lots, stores and everywhere in between in their youth now see a woman of interest and let her walk on by, no Isaac Hayes. “There’ll be another one,” they claim in tones ranging from apathy to contempt.

Get married? What’s in it for me?!

When men are young, women treat them like they aren’t in demand and they’re not afraid to let him know it. As an older man, he has the opportunity to feel what it’s like to be in demand himself, which dictates how he approaches dating. As the saying goes, “absolute power, corrupts absolutely.” In some cases, these men becoming increasingly lazy and their search for women is itself much pickier. Before, he was simply looking for a woman; whereas now he is looking for a wife, maybe. Although, without balance, his standards/preferences may dictate that any woman he settles down with must be perfect.

Rather than pursue 10 women in which he might only have moderate interest; he focuses on the one or two women he has a definite interest in. So, in addition to being lazy, “good men” are selectively approaching; whereas, women are still approached by the same young men and men who have nothing to offer, since these men must overcome having less by approaching more. Since many women – regardless of age – wait for men to approach them, it might seem like there are fewer “good men” available, because from her perspective it’s rare that a “good man” ever shows up.

I honestly don’t have a solution for the rise in lazy men. I only sought to explain today why they are so prevalent in the population. Since men and women continue to marry later and later in life, the lazy man might be here to stay. It remains to be seen whether the lazy man will be replaced by a rise in the aggressive woman or has she already arrived on the dating evolutionary scene? Another topic for another day…

1) Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not? 2) Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive? Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness? 3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs (approaching first, initiating the courtship, remaining chivalrous, being a provider, etc)?

Rather than pursue 10 women in which he might only have moderate interest; he focuses on the one or two women he has a definite interest in. So, in addition to being lazy, “good men” are selectively approaching; whereas, women are still approached by the same young men and men who have nothing to offer, since these men must overcome having less by approaching more. Since many women – regardless of age – wait for men to approach them, it might seem like there are fewer “good men” available, because from her perspective it’s rare that a “good man” ever shows up.

I honestly don’t have a solution for the rise in lazy men. I only sought to explain today why they are so prevalent in the population. Since men and women continue to marry later and later in life, the lazy man might be here to stay. It remains to be seen whether the lazy man will be replaced by a rise in the aggressive woman or has she already arrived on the dating evolutionary scene? Another topic for another day…

1) Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not? 2) Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive? Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness? 3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs (approaching first, initiating the courtship, remaining chivalrous, being a provider, etc)?

WisdomIsMiseryWisdomIsMisery aka WIM uses his formal training as an internal auditor to provide objective, yet opinionated, qualitative and quantitative analysis on life, love, and everything in between. As a Scorpio, many women wish death on WIM and some have attempted to hasten its arrival. WIM is not a model, a model citizen, or a role model. See more of WIM on Twitter @WisdomIsMisery.

Stanley

“As we get older and our station in life improves, men start to become, you guessed it, lazier.”

Men are not improving to become lazy. Men are improving to become better and wiser.

Men are becoming so wise that you kind of acknowledge men’s wisdom in your 2nd to last paragraph: “Rather than pursue 10 women in which he might only have moderate interest; he focuses on the one or two women he has a definite interest in. So, in addition to being lazy, ”good men” are selectively approaching; whereas, women are still approached by the same young men and men who have nothing to offer, since these men must overcome having less by approaching more. Since many women – regardless of age – wait for men to approach them, it might seem like there are fewer “good men” available, because from her perspective it’s rare that a “good man” ever shows up.”

If dating is really a market, as I’ve read it many times here, I don’t see how you can use LAZY as a word to describe anyone’s use of leverage to negotiate a good deal. IT’S JUST A WISE MOVE!

mara

I hear you Stanley. It does make more sense to become more selective as your status improves. However I've observed that as their status improves and they do become more selective they believe they deserve miss perfect 10 and the truth is she doesn't exist, so they'll be searching/waiting for her their whole lives and end up with nothing.

I would say it’s laziness in the sense that men procrastinate. Have nots sell women the dream and what they can/will do but take their sweet time getting it, stabler men hold on to find the woman they feel is worthy of all they have to offer, naturally assuming maybe the next one is….or maybe after that. To Mara’s point both cases have potential to backfire, but it’s typically the women who are the ones waiting for him to get it together or finally commit.

mara

The lazy man and the aggressive woman go hand in hand.
“Entire groups of marriageable-aged men are perfectly content not approaching, courting, or putting in any significant amount of work to meet marriageable-aged women. Even worse, a lot of them don’t have to. Grown men whom I’ve personally witnessed chase women across clubs, lounges, bars, parking lots, stores and everywhere in between in their youth now see a woman of interest and let her walk on by, no Isaac Hayes. “There’ll be another one,”
I think that sums it up well. Listen to Marcus Canty’s “in and out” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8XBBtGApU and you’ll hear exactly that. He clearly doesn’t see the benefits to a committed relationship. He’s lazy cause he can be. he’s not pursuing ANY woman. He meets aggressive women that want to “lock him down” and he not only believes there’ll “be another one” but there’ll be “another BETTER one”. Fast forward in life and you’ll find that men who keep this mindset end up unmarried and lonely.

larnelw

I do agree that todays men are far more lazy when it comes to the pursuit of women. And its for the precise reason you mentioned….because we have the power to be. Men are the minority on this planet. A good man is a rarity. So if you look the part you are a hot commodity and WILL be pursued by women. Problem is thats not the way the system was designed to work. A man should pursue a woman. Its "He who finds a wife finds a good thing". Not "she who finds a husband".
I believe there is a remedy to this though. It will take women to revert back to the old ways. To take back the mindset and belief that "if you want me then you must pursue ME". It will take them knowing their self worth and waiting for a man who recognizes it and comes for her. It will take them saying, "I am a LADY. And a lady doesn't chase after a man". Because as long as women continue to gro more aggressive in pursuit of men, men wil become lazier and lazier.

1) Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not?
I think its more caution, having seen the predecessors and the results. My parents married at 21, me at 21 I couldn't say I was even thinking about the idea. I saw what happened to them as years wore on, my father perhaps regretting getting tied down before he had a chance to live. At 24, I still don't see myself as ready, it's not that i'm too lazy to commit but i'm just cautious. As far as courting, we've all gone all in on a woman only to fail so of course we're going to dial it back or try to get her with as little effort (and vested emotion) as possible

2) Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive? Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness?
Women been more aggressive, they are looking up at seconds tick away and they still need to score. They have long given up on finding a provider and started getting their own careers. They have given up on fathers and raised children on their own. However companionship is another thing entirely, BOB can't kiss you like this, and that's where the lazy man comes in. Women want men for less and less and in part that's all men are going to offer.

3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs (approaching first, initiating the courtship, remaining chivalrous, being a provider, etc)?
Expect, no. Require, perhaps. Desire, yes. There isn't a rulebook that states what a relationship should be, what courting should be. There's some women who have no problem with the lazy man, while others settle for him. Some would say women are giving up their power and should hold themselves to a higher standard but that's their life let them do them. I believe men should approach, initiate courtship, be chivalrous, provide, protect, commit, that's what I aim to do, power to me. Another guy might just run game or look like Idris/Trey/Whoever shorties thirst on these days so he's getting his without all that, power to him as well.
My recent post Today’s Word is… MASCULINITY

Cookie

That is truly unfortunate; it's a vicious cycle that seems almost impossible to end. If you rely on a man to be there for you, and he isn't, what choice do you have but to get up and do it yourself. Then we/women are faulted for doing so. Laziness is a choice, not a necessity. Granted, some women are more aggressive for reasons that have nothing to do with anything other than the fact that she feels that she has some material achievement that deems her worthy of her aggressive behavior, but on the other hand, sometimes for lack of a provider, consistent, and conscientious man, you have to buck up and do what you have to do for yourself in this world, which may indeed make you a little more aggressive and perceived as not wanting or needing a real companion, when you really do deire one, with integrity and not b.s. and game…

I can’t completely sign off on this one. While some are definitely lazy when it comes to dating. I’m finding that men are wanting more reciprocation and acknowledgment from women. Guys will put in all this work and still not even have a clue if a woman has a slight interest. Dating has always been a back and forth and men want and need that to know if their actions are even wanted.

I’m in the growing group of men that don’t care about women approaching men. A simple hello and conversation is really all it takes and if a guy is interested as well things will go naturally. It’s not as big a deal as it is sometimes made out to be.

Peter Parker

Or a simple smile looking my way directly in the eyes will give me the green light to go for the digits! lol

Well said Animate. It's more about us not blindly putting in work while getting little to no reciprocation. I think this is in men's best interest. The same women that complain about men being lazy, also complain about the thirsty arse dudes they deal with. The reason a lot of us seem so lazy is because we have too much self-respect to be persistent and aggressive with a chick who's acting uncertain and not reciprocating interest. Too many options to deal with lukewarm women. It's not about laziness in my opinion.
My recent post When Are We Intimidated?

Well Enuff

+1

Uncle Hugh, BP

1) Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment?

Yes. I'm north of the average age of the commenters here, and I'm a little taken back when I see women here writing that guys today text as the greater part of their communication. I'm not so old school that I don't text, but texting someone you're trying to get to know? You young rippersnappers…

2) Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive?

The women who are seven and below may have to. The nines and tens never will.

Uncle Hugh, BP

3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs (approaching first, initiating the courtship, remaining chivalrous, being a provider, etc)?

Of course, if that's what they want and it is an approach that works for them. Realize many men aren't willing to do so, so the pool of available men is reduced, but those aren't the men they want anyway (generally speaking). Although that "man approaching first" tactic will cause many men they actually want to overlook them.

SN: The pictures in these posts kill me! The dude tweezing his eyebrows slayed my soul.

JaziBlu

Uncle Hugh I totally agree regarding the texting. The texting has gone too far and seems the only means of communication that is acceptable nowadays…..

bree

Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not? I think modern men are simply products of their enviroonment and things and people have changed with the times. I don't think it's so much that modern men are lazy, as it is that they are content with a single lifestyle. Singleness simply suits men better than women and men benefit more from being single than women do. Of course more women want to get married than men do.

X's Dad

@ Bree, that is true. Singlehood looks waaaay better on men than on women. (Generally speaking of course)

Bree

Women are prepped for motherhood and being wives as young girls. Even women that don't care about being married want babies and they know that in society's eyes if they want a baby they should have a husband first. It's all part of societal protocol. Unless they want to hold on to a woman for life and find a woman they can't live without men don't really need to get married as much as women do. They can easily spread their seed and make babies and carry on their legacy without being married. So no major benefits for men hence a large part of why they aren't pressed to get married. They can have everything they want and need from women without putting a ring on it and many are perfectly content to do just that.

Caesar20417

This is the most sound piece of commentary I have ever seen fom you. excellent analysis!!

"Today, right or wrong, it’s as if modern men have to be sold on the benefits of a committed relationship/marriage. "

Nothing wrong about that at all. No wise person gives away value for nothing of value in return.

"Since many women – regardless of age – wait for men to approach them, it might seem like there are fewer “good men” available, because from her perspective it’s rare that a “good man” ever shows up."

The problem for these women is that "good men" are just as picky as women. So most of them won't be approached nearly as often as they would like.

"It remains to be seen whether the lazy man will be replaced by a rise in the aggressive woman or has she already arrived on the dating evolutionary scene?"

She's already here, and she makes things more efficient for everyone. Well, everyone except women who lack the assertiveness and courage to approach the men they want.
My recent post When Are We Intimidated?

bree

"The problem for these women is that "good men" are just as picky as women. So most of them won't be approached nearly as often as they would like."
TQ thats a great point. Truth.com. Particularly women who are pleasing to the eye and have sex appeal and good jobs making good money can't for the life of them understand why men aren't chomping at the bit to "put a ring on it." If men can reject Halle Berry, and the ones that do marry her divorce her as quick as they marry her, what makes you think your extra special……??? Really…..?

bree

Men nowadays when looking for a "wife" want a woman that embodies Everything that a wife should be to them. They want more than just a pretty face and a woman that can rock their world in the bedroom. If you look good and your a freak in the bedroom thats all your going to be to some men is a bad azz chick who is a freak. They will do everything but marry you. Ladies have to bring more sustenance and to the relationship. Men want to laugh too, they don't want to just be the king of comedy all the time. Men want to be pampered too, they don't want to just do all the pampering. They want massages, and they want to be romanced and wined and dined sometimes as well. Men want reciprocity in their relationships and rightfully so. From what many men have told me they are tired of giving and receiving little or nothing in return. They are tired of women treating them like all they have to do is be present and look pretty and that should be enough, it's not. Just as women want more, men want more too.

bree

A lot of men tell me that just as many women as men have more game than Parker brothers nowadays. Men don't want to be played and lied to and have their emotions toyed with and hearts broken either. A lot of men get tired and frustrated after dating and spending money on countless women who are nowhere near ready, willing, and able to give them what they want and need to sustain them in a long-term committed relationship, much less a marriage. ijs.

Kay

Amen! lol!

BlueSteele

If men can reject Halle Berry, and the ones that do marry her divorce her as quick as they marry her, what makes you think your extra special……??? Really…..?

#RealTears lol

Mr_SD

Halle is kray-kray tho..lol

BlueSteele

Truth

Larry

Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not?

I'm going to go with yes. If one defines "laziness" with giving myself less opportunity to meet women now than when I was younger then I will be the first one to tell you I have gotten lazier. I don't go out nearly as much as I did in the past and when I do, as WIM eluded to in the post, I don't feel as "obligated" to approach women and attempt to invite them back to my place exchange information. I'm content with grabbing a drink or two, chopping it up with the fellas…converse with a female woman or two and calling it a night.

That's not to say that if there is a woman out that catches my eye and we have a good conversation that I wouldn't want to pursue it further, however.

Bree

Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive? I don't think women need to compensate for anything. I think women need to find like-minded men and stop pursuing men who have no interest in marriage and/or no interest in them and don't want the things that they want in the same timeframe.
I think some women do find a man that they love so much that they are willing to and have the patience to stick with him and "make him want to be a better man" for them. Some men love a woman so much that they are more than willing to allow that woman to make him better and they go along with whatever she says because the trust her. Much of it is all relative to the level of love and trust between the 2 people. But there is no real rhyme or reason to it. It just is or it isn't.

Caesar20417

*hands raised* wow, whats in your cup? you are on fire!

The CPT

I've been hearing a lot of complaints from women about this very thing but I really cannot feel sorry for them. This is unfortunately an unintended consequence of advancement. So just like the record industry, you're going to have to adjust to more digital sales than physical copies if you follow me…

1) Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not?
Sure but can you blame them? I would like to venture to say that women's liberation also liberated men from the simpish role they had to endure to get a piece. Now, you can get a piece without all that flowers and wining and dining. The game has changed.

2) Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive?
Some women have become aggressive because they recognize that they need to compete a lot more, and since most are looking for a particular type of guy (enter "the list"), the competition gets fierce. The ones who pine about being "old fashioned" are usually the ones who complain about not being able to get a man or the man they want. Either you are good to go in the looks department that attracts more suitors or you compensate for what you lack by being more assertive and approachable.

Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness?
They open up more options for men if the man is receptive. In this "equal" society I see this as a good thing.

3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs (approaching first, initiating the courtship, remaining chivalrous, being a provider, etc)?
They can if they like. The result will be the same: Women who hold on to the "old school" values trying to navigate through this brave new world and thus the articles will continue to be written about the decline of "real men," gentlemen and good men. Women with those things that men want and value will continue to be checked for. The ones who sit around and get mad at other races of women, more attractive women and more strategically minded (assertive) women will have to adjust fire or get left behind waiting for that one.

BTW…I notice the end result for all of this "men behaving badly" finger waving always ends with a man being unmarried and lonely. For that I say, so what? It's as if there is only one way for the story to end and it isn't always that.

Ok I see that you see this decline for men showing appreciation (hence no more wining and dining) as a good thing. Evene if you are assertive as a woman, you can just as easily be completely swept off your feet by the traditional ways. There is something about a man you like and want, treating you like a princess that trumps whatever result you can get by actively chasing men.

The CPT

I'm not encouraging "the chasing of men" as much as I'm saying "speak up, say something or sit there alone." I'm only going to devote energy into someone that not only that I feel I want to treat like a princess, but she brings something to the equation more than just being woo'd and entertained.

Bree

Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness? Absolutely some women do yes. Some women are enablers and they enable. Nuff said.
3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs (approaching first, initiating the courtship, remaining chivalrous, being a provider, etc)?
I think what it all boils down to is this: If your "involved" with a man he should treat you well and with the utmost respect. He should treat you like he has some good sense and home training. If he says he loves you and cares about you and you mean the world to him then it should be shown through his actions on a consistent and daily basis. Every woman, (and man) should absolutely expect to be treated well and respected in their relationships. They should expect their partner to be kind, unselfish, caring, loving and considerate.

bree

If your with a person who doesn't embody these things then these are characteristics that they may not have. If this is the case, then the question is why would you want to be with a man who is selfish, inconsiderate, immature, and you can clearly see these characteristics in him. The other part is it all depends on what your willing to tolerate and what your not. These things are all relative to each individual woman. Some women are more than willing to tolerate a whole lot from a man, and some won't tolerate the slightest thing.

I definitely do agree most modern men are lazy these days from the stories my female friends tell me. This is a very interesting topic because I have noticed lately in the dating game, you really don't have to put forth alot of effort for some women. I am in my early 30's, but I always was about "that life" of showing a woman a good time, dinners, travel excursions, and etc. One thing I have realized as I am older is that every woman shouldn't get that treatment until she has proven her worth. So instead of 4 or 5 star restaurant, maybe go to low key spot after a few trips to the local Starbucks and realizing there is some chemistry.
I do think women today expect men to atleast make a conscious attempt to court them, but I can tell you men like this appear to be hard to find (atleast that's what I have been told).
Aggressive women are definitely out here, which for a good man, that can definitely be a turn off esp. if after a few dates you ready to settle down and rush into things…No bueno sista…Gotta make sure you not crazy or something…

MaggK

If a man REALLY wants you, (and by really i mean REALLY REALLY!) he won't be lazy!
I understand where men's lazyness comes from, WIM u said it all, i just don't accept it in my life AH! So yeah i still have my expectations on modern men!!!

Also i think it's ok for a woman to wink at a man or just smile… We reject men everyday, i understand some of them got shy!!! Let him know you find him cute. I don't consider that aggressive.
Aggressive is when you grab his ass in public and make a face that, in your mind you think, is sexy but really it's scary! Aggressive is when you send a nude pic of yourself… oh well. Lazy men love aggressive women, and aggressive women are just the way they are, they would still be even if men weren't lazy…

1) Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not?

Yes. More options, changing expectations, women have relaxed standards, some men are nickles out here looking for dimes really refuse to pursue, the list goes on and on.

2) Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive? Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness?

Many women already are, which contributes to men's cyclical laziness. More women will become aggressive, this one won't. If a man can't be assertive in his approach and pursuit, what the hell kind of bf/husband will he be???? Don't worry, I'll wait. (Hint: a lazy one)

3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs?

I plan to.

It's funny how many men I know with the mindset that women should prove their worth. More entertaining is the number of grown ass women who fall into that. FAIL

As a man, who approaches is not related to what kind of bf/husband you will be/are. Honestly, we could use some of the same logic and say women are lazy when it comes to dating because they don't go after guys that they want and just sit back to be approached. A slightly more aggressive woman has a higher chance at finding what she wants than the more passive method in today's dating climate.
My recent post Murci, Murci Me

BlueSteele

" A slightly more aggressive woman has a higher chance at finding what she wants than the more passive method in today's dating climate. "

Unless what she's looking for is an assertive man.

You can try to sell me the logic that women should be more aggressive all you want, I'm not buying. (I, as in me personally.) If a man prefers to view my failure to chase after him as a sign that I'm not gf/wife material, more power to him. In all honesty, by that measure I'm probably not.

In my experience, men who are less proactive in pursuit and dating tend to remain that way in a committed relationship. SO then, the guys who don't put much effort into the dates, phone calls, thoughtful gestures etc. generally won't get very far with me.

SN: There's a big difference between letting a man know that you're interested/reciprocating his advances and aggressively chasing a guy. Eye contact, flash a smile, initiate a conversation, flirt, dance…yes. Pushing up on a guy who isn't all that interested, calling too darn much, forcing the chemistry, busting it wide open manipulating…smh, not I sir.

You are equating chasing with pursuit. I will almost guarantee that men see a distinct difference. And the truth of the matter is both parties do their varying versions of pursuit. I would say not to go after a go that is showing now interest just like I would tell a guy to not go after a woman that is not showing interest.

Your SN even acknowledges the differences in chasing and pursuing. Yet you only speak of both as if they are looked at in the negative connotation.
My recent post Murci, Murci Me

BlueSteele

Nope I addressed chasing, and then I addressed pursuit, reciprocity, aggression vs. assertiveness and somewhere in all that is an explanation of where I draw my own line. Not sure how much more explanation was necessary. I think you're digging for an argument that doesn't and will not exist.

Kema

Todays climate looks different but is still pretty much the same. I dont think men appreciate game that is simply laid down if front of him. Its the women that guys feel the need to chase that appear to be the best option.

BlueSteele

*That last part should say:

It's funny how many men I know with the mindset that women should prove their worth by chasing after him, then he'll eventually decide to court/date her.

Streetz

I think its more of a sign of the times than blatant laziness. We have more options and if you have certain characteristics (good dude, good job, good looks) you will be even more desired.

its all perception to me. Women arent considered lazy because they dont pursue men, because perception and society deem it "status quo".

Women have all the tools to let us know they are interested. If they use em, and the dude is unresponsive, move on to the next one!

I rarely ever comment, been on lurker mode for almost a year. I found this article interesting and I have a little free time so I'll chime in.

1) Do you think modern men are lazier than their predecessors when it comes to courtship, dating, and commitment? Why or why not?

Some definitely but as a whole? No, I think it has a lot more to do with pragmatism. Men have always been the same, we are primarily concerned with the success or failure of our actions. In the past men regularly went "all out" when courting women and the goal was marriage. They didn't do this because they enjoyed the courting process or believed in marriage, they did it because it was necessary to get their needs met. Men are hunters, I know its an old cliche but there's truth to it. And the goal of any good hunter is to obtain the greatest reward while investing the least amount of effort.

2) Do you think women will eventually compensate for men’s laziness by becoming more aggressive or have women already become more aggressive? Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness?

Women have already become more aggressive out of necessity. Since less men are interested in pursuing marriage or even a committed relationship, waiting to be approached is no longer as effective as it was in the past. Do aggressive women perpetuate the cycle of increasing men’s laziness? If she's the one doing all the work and all the pursuing without requiring effort from him, then yes. However, I find nothing wrong with a woman who plainly states and goes for what she wants. Or at least lets him know she's interested.

3) Should modern women continue to expect modern men to maintain traditionally preferred dating customs (approaching first, initiating the courtship, remaining chivalrous, being a provider, etc)?

Don't automatically expect a man to do this, if this is what you want make it known. If you get a man who does these things from the get go that's excellent but unfortunately this isn't always the case. Like I said above, men are primarily concerned with success. If he feels he can "succeed" in winning you with little to no effort, than little to no effort is all you'll receive. Also keep in mind that many men today, especially young men, have no idea how to date or be chivalrous. Most of us men can maintain friendships with each other with minimal effort, so a man might think that simply wanting to be around you is all it takes to keep you. So all in all, set some reasonable standards you want him to meet and stick by them.

Funny, I've decided to be more lurk-mode-ish in the comments myself for the holidays and to get my mind right for the new year. But, preciate the perspective, sir.

Bree

"So all in all, set some reasonable standards you want him to meet and stick by them." Simple but very effective advice.

bellatrice1

Hmmm…In my experience, I've found that men have become lazier as far as actually going out on dates and doing activities, planning things, etc. Their idea of what courting entails has changed, but I don't think they've stopped courting altogether.

When did courting only become all about wooing the woman and convincing her to marry you or give you some nookie?? I always thought the concept was that a man enjoys spending time with a certain woman, so he wants her around when he eats or goes on a trip or goes to a party. As a gentleman or if he knows the woman can't afford it, he simply pays for most of the activities they do together. I always thought it was supposed to be mutually beneficial, and like WIM said above, if it is in fact mutually beneficial, should not be conceived as "work" per se.

Maybe that's naive of me, but I feel like the guys that I date or that court me, genuinely enjoy being with me, and it's not ALL about the grand pursuit of nookie. Sure, that's something they want, but I would hope that's not the only reason they're spending money and time.
My recent post Why Men Should Hit on Women at Church

They are two distinct phases, both with different "goals". One dates to get to know a person and determine if they want to be in an exclusive relationship. The relationship is the goal. One courts with the intent of marriage or an agreed upon long sighted exclusive relationship. The level of commitment is higher with courtship.
My recent post Murci, Murci Me

bellatrice1

I know the difference…I asked what's the difference in how you behave since you brought up the distinction as though it changed the meaning or effectiveness of what I initially said as it pertains to dating/courting and the laziness factor.

I don't think there's any real difference in what a man does when he dates vs. courts, but I thought since you brought it up (not sure why), you'd let me know differently.
My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

Beef Bacon

The rules of this world have changed and I think we need to take that into consideration.

I wonder why some people think women are just supposed to walk around with our heads down or turn down a man (she is actually interested in getting to know) to play hard to get. What is an aggressive woman? If he looks at me and I smile back….is that aggressive? I'll answer that…no. Will you be upset that I gave him my phone number while you play hard to get….probably.

While I did learn not to be pressed for a man, my mother never told me to play mind games with a man I am interested in. That may be okay and actually work for other women, however, I don't like mind games and would prefer to begin my relationships without them.

As far as lazy men….yes they are out there. I think a man being lazy IN a relationship is different than a man you are dating. If you are only dating him…show him how you want to be treated and be ready to move on if he doesn't apply it. Now if he is lazy in a relationship…that's tricky. There had to be some red flags, but now you love him…so what do you do? Will you leave him, complain or try to see if he can do better…idk….that one is tricky. Lazy doesn't equal ignorant…so maybe he can man up IF you require it.

As far as expectations of modern men…I require love, respect and reciprocity. The other rules we can make up as we go along.

The CPT

The word should be "assertive" which is a bit less in your face than aggressive.

Bree

I agree Beef Bacon…….how does one define lazy dating? imo if a man puts forth little to no effort and/or time, then I take that to mean he is not that into the woman, or just wants to hit and run. If he is lazy then he may just be a lazy person that doesn't put much effort and time into anything or anyone. If it's the latter, what woman in her right mind would want to deal with a man like that anyway? I wouldn't necessarily call a man that didn't want to do much and didn't want to go out all the time a "lazy dater." He may be a homebody that doesn't care to go out and do much. In the end though, if a man seriously wants to be with a woman badly enough, he will do almost anything to make her happy.

James

Once again I’m gonna answer this from a socio economic stand point.

We have a now a 2 term black president and many black (men & women) in high profile jobs. Let me tie in my background to help.

ABC has a show called “Scandal”. The show is based on a black professional woman. The show runner (person who runs the show day-to-day) is a black woman. Who the show is based on and who put the show together are high profile jobs. You are not going to be home at 7pm for TMZ or Sportcenter. Friends and family getting hitched having kids, ok maybe it can happen or maybe it won’t. But you now are working on a 20 million a week tv show.

And before you say “yea but those are the extreme jobs” well last year this time a small movie called “Pariah” was released. The writer/director is a regular black woman.

But she doesn’t live a normal life. Why? She’s a film maker. She’s no different than many educated driven people I know these days whose career has changed the dating game. We are living 21st century but at times we date mid 20th century.

I’m in the film business. It’s hard on your social life. In my 20’s the first few years of school-socializing was just showing up for class. The women were aggressive because they were young and away from home with it’s stigmas and restrictions. But as we got older women really reverted to a more regressive dating pattern.

If we are mostly all college educated I couldn’t understand why some women didn’t use their college wits to select better men. By 30 I started bumping into one educated women after another popping up with babies and deadbeat dads like it was 1993. The excuses were dumb. Some of these women were vp’s in financial institutions, teachers, journalist. Well paying gigs, future bright like a sign in Times Square. It seemed they compromised their life because they were just flat out impatient. I understood it took me ten years to get a degree. When I got it economy was trash. I sucked it up and took any job as long as it paid rent. In the 70’s maybe the 80’s my move was sound, but in the misguided materialistic driven 21st century we’ve skewed success. I got lumped in to the pile of lousy men because I didnt have an “exiting life”. Most of the men who got the women pregnant that I mentioned earlier were “about that life”, that is till it actually involved real lives.

Those guys are the lazy men. They have piqued professionally and socially so they over compensate: a mildly fly whip and every pair sneakers and the latest overpriced jeans. You see these guys all the time, young yes but too old to still care about every little fashion accessory and I mean we are talking about straight men who have NO ties at all to the fashion industry.

But it works. Shoot I stopped trying to bag women because I dont have the excess income to date women-who seem to judge my life bases on marginal materialistic items.

It seems these days the noble struggle is just not sexy. If you don’t go from undergrad to lucrative career right out of college you are (especially men) deemed a bust and it must be cause you are lazy or you “lack something”.

I haven’t gotten lazy in my attempt to go after women but if these women get swindled by some dolt in his 2nd baby moms-moms whip, I’ll just keep it moving. Besides I just blew my money on a nice micro 4/3 dslr interchangeable lens camera.

Btw all of my married friends wives grew with their husbands. From single and a bachelors pad to a good job sound choices most are now home owners. We need to stop dating like its a contest. Relationships are about growth. We need to stop geeking at job titles and what someone has.

Kay

"Relationships are about growth. We need to stop geeking at job titles and what someone has."
So true. This microwave/consumerism mentality in relationships is very short-sighted, imho. You can't expect to just step into a ready-made slot in somebody's life with all the items checked off i.e. car, house, vacations, etc. Enduring relationships require investment (like anything worth having) and your partner, I believe, will value you more for that.

Logicbuster

I'm also in the Motion Picture industry (1st AC), and at 30 I've taken a 10 month long break from dating to focus (no pun intended) on my career. When you take into account the average length of my work-day – typically 10-14 hours – comprised of high-pressure tasks that require 100% mental presence, and equal measures of physical stamina, there just isn't much left over in my batteries to put towards pursuing and dating women. A pursuit that (in all honestly) hardly seems entirely worthwhile in this age of fickle materialism; where the value of a human being is all too often measured by marginal possessions, rather than one's value system, or the goals he/she is striving to achieve.

Focusing on my career has enabled me to travel the globe, allowed me to work on Academy Award Winning Feature Films and high profile TV Series. I'm also a cellist and music occupies a good deal of whatever free time I have left. For me to bring someone else into my life will require a sacrifice on my part; less time spent on my career, music and intellectual pursuits. That's a sacrifice I would GLADLY make for the right woman; a woman of substance, who understands that relationships are about growing together, and who's not overly concerned with life's luxuries. I can wine and dine with the best of them, but I choose to not hold that as a measure of my worth. I also choose to save that for women who show me that they are the real deal.

That's not laziness, that's pragmatism.

Many of the women I've met over the years have had little to offer, apart from sex – and they're absolutely baffled as to why that isn't enough. It's a sad state of affairs and my head nearly exploded the last time I tried to conjure a logical explanation for how we arrived at the point where we (as a culture) entertained the erroneous notion that sex appeal should be enough. It sometimes seem to me the simple fact that there are men out there who require a little more than just sex appeal to pursue, court, date and marry hasn't yet entered our darkest dreams.

It wasn't easy to choose to remain single for the time being – especially when all of my friends are coupled-off, married or married with kids. I go through periods of loneliness just like anyone else; it SUCKS always being the third-wheel, or the "why the heck is he still single?" bloke swimming in a tepid sea of couples, but l am resolved to this one personal axiom: It is far better to be single than to be married, with kids, to Mrs. Wrong. Too many people are in relationships for all the wrong reasons.

Being in a relationship can be extremely rewarding, but it is by no means the crowning achievement of a person's life. We've lost sight of the fact that relationships are hard work, that having a faithful someone by your side on life's journey trumps the trappings of material excess by a wide margin. By worrying less about dating in the short-term, I get to invest my energy in my personal, intellectual and financial growth, and actively better myself day-after-day. This only makes me a better person and a better potential partner in the long run, and I think (hope?) will increase my chances of meeting someone truly worth the effort.

That's the point: Finding a partner isn't about finding someone to fill a role, rather it's about finding someone who inspires you to write that role for her/him. I choose not to waste my valuable energy on a woman who doesn't inspire that passion in me, to do so would be dishonest. That doesn't mean that another man won't move Heaven and Earth to be with her.

We'd do well to avoid judgmental terms like "lazy." I don't think that self-sufficient adults, working reasonably hard to maintain a career and attain personal goals, should have to suffer such an indignity simply because the standards of courtship have declined somewhat. What defines "a good man," or "a good woman" is so utterly subjective it doesn't warrant discussion.

The better question is why is "aggressive" such a bad word when applied to women, but practically a compliment when applied to men?
My recent post When Are We Intimidated?

BlueSteele

A whole different post, lol. In my mind aggressive implies thirst, not good either way. I prefer the use of "assertive". Go for what you want while maintaining respectable limits.

MaggK

Aggressive isn't a compliment even when applied to men.

The Guy

When you're a kid talking to tons of girls that's coming from a horny/desperate mindset. And when a guy starts to build self confidence and improve upon himself with age, he's trying to upgrade the type of women he talks to. You're throwing a lot of that under the umbrella of "lazy" which couldn't be more wrong. I could go into a long speech but why bother…

Marriage and settling down isn't as fulfilling to some men nowadays for a number of reasons, but that's another entire article (that would be interesting to read).

If you don't have any men trying to talk to or get at you as a woman, that might mean you're hanging around the wrong places, or that you still have some work to do internally.

Marriage and settling down isn't as fulfilling to some men nowadays for a number of reasons, but that's another entire article (that would be interesting to read).

FYI, I'm only replying here out of convenience but I'm addressing a number of comments, which happen to relate to the sentence I highlighted above in bold. I do see this as a follow-up article. Something along the lines of 'What Motivates Black Men to Stay Single?' Before y'all jump on my head, I'm the first to note that people across all races are marrying later or not at all. I'm crunching those stats now.

That said, BM/BW still lead, as we do in most cases, in all the wrong qualifiers. In this instance, marriage. Based on what I've read so far, as not to ruin this future post, it seems BM/BW marriage rates don't even out with other races until about the mid 40's. Specifically, our marriage rates average between 5 – 10% less than other races. So it's not so much that BM/BW aren't marrying, rather than BM/BW aren't marrying until later. This 'phenomenon,' if you want to call it that, is unique to Blacks. There is clearly something unique to the black community that either 1) makes single-life appear more beneficial; or 2) married life less beneficial to black men. I'll expand on this in detail in a follow-up post but thought I'd get the people going, circa a 'this is the remix' brief intro here.

Let me add this: it's not children based and it's likely not (specifically) economically based. For one, Blacks, on average, have less children than Hispanics (but more than whites). We're relatively equal in household income to Hispanics, yet we have higher divorce rates. Again, I'll draw all these stats together in the main post . Just felt this context should be added. Offhand, it seems there is something culturally ingrained.

Bree

Wis I would say it could be culturally ingrained in American BM/BW, Not in BM/BW from other countries. I think it's societally unique to American BM/BW.
I agree that it's not so much that black people aren't getting married, as it is that they're getting married later and they are having babies and living together for years and years before they actually make it to the alter…..ie an all too common Chrissy & Jim Jones type of situtation.
It's kind of sad when Dr.'s and nurses are surprised when a black woman is there having her baby and her husband is there with her. It's become so common to see single and/or unmarried black women having babies that Dr.'s and nurses have come to expect that more often than not the black women having babies aren't married. Some womens baby's father is not around at all, so they are "single moms" before they even give birth. I know a few black married couples who told me the hospital staff were pleasantly surprised to see that they were married when they had their baby.

I'll dig deeper into the source and methodology when I have some downtime.

The CPT

Just as I've answered in a couple of posts upstream pay close attention to the words aggressive and assertive in this discussion.

In my personal experience, aggressive women are not all that attractive in the grand scheme. If it were a man, he would be considered thirsty. Aggressive women have a tendency to pull out all the stops, which while initially flattering, turns borderline scary unless brakes are applied. Assertive women I respect and appreciate more. As a man I cannot see you all. I might not even notice you on my quick breeze through the supermarket but that is where the Art of Seduction (get that book) can be applied subtly. The aggressive woman will walk straight up to you, invade your personal space and let you know she wants you and she doesn't care how. An Assertive woman would likely just position herself in eyeshot or arm's length, perhaps make eye contact, flirt with the eyes a bit and give body language indicative of interest. It's a dance. Sure, I'll approach, but only if I'm acknowledged and see that the feeling is somewhat mutual.

The responses from some of the ladies on here reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend 10 years younger than me. She went on to complain about the men who approached her and how they didn't have their stuff together. I asked her how does she fish? She didn't get the analogy. I broke it down: Are you the type that dips a net in the water and just keeps it there hoping the fish swim directly into it or are you roddin and reelin with a little bait at the end, so that when the fish comes up and bites, you can reel him in easier? Men will pursue wants it has been affirmed that his pursuits will benefit him greatly, and that's more than just getting some cheeks.

Idk about lazy but it definitely does seem more complicated. Reading this post was like tryna get through an LSAT question with all these if this then that. The best stories I’ve heard from old school couples (my parents included) are from men who were attracted to a particular woman and definitely for sure wanted to have her in their life. There is the sweetest story of my parents’ friends – they met at a party, he asked for her number, she said I’m in the phone book look me up. And he did!! He couldn’t find her. Was dismayed. Checked with her homegirl who said she lived in DC not MD. So we he looked in the DC book. Would that happen today? Doubtful. But I don’t think it’s just because of technology or “laziness”, I think it’s also because old school men knew, recognized, appreciated what a woman could bring into their life – beyond the physical. There was humility and the taking of the chance to be vulnerable. And it seems women knew how to enjoy that without making a man feel like a punk. There seemed to have been a genuine desire on the man’s part to want to have a woman, a lady, on your arm and in your corner.* I’m not going to make sweeping, that doesn’t happen now, generalizations – but if each gender keeps treating the other like they are expendable and not worth pursuing or like I wouldn’t even deign to stretch beyond my comfort zone to meet someone or be with someone. Meh. It might happen.
*These are based off my observations of relationships/marriages of 25+ years where the couples have been honest and forthright about their ups and downs. So I know it’s not all rainbows and butterflies.

Bree

" I think it's also because old school men knew, recognized, appreciated what a woman could bring into their life – beyond the physical. There was humility and the taking of the chance to be vulnerable. And it seems women knew how to enjoy that without making a man feel like a punk. There seemed to have been a genuine desire on the man's part to want to have a woman, a lady, on your arm and in your corner.* "

**************************All Of This****************************************

BlueSteele

Yep

Larry

I think there's some slight revisionist history and selective memory here. Men recognize and appreciate what a woman could bring into their life all the same relative to today's day and age, but how men express or show it may be different as an aggregate than 50 years ago.

50-60+ years ago most families ate dinner in the dining room together…at the same time. Then TV came along and people ate in front of the television. Then not all at the same time consistently. That's not to say some families still do not do this…and that's great…but the ones that don't, I don't think, are less of a family…they express it in a different way now than before in the past.

Some people would prefer how things were back then, I'm sure…but the reality of the situation is the variables in the equation are vastly different…therefore you get different answers.

I don't think that everything was peachy back then. And I know that the people who lived it would agree. What I'm saying is based on my observations and conversations with couples who are in it to win it when a man wanted a woman – he took a chance and went for it. But I'ma run past my parents house this week and ask them if they sat around for hours on end and waxed on and on about how to find a good man, what women should do to get a man, who's a 10 and who's a 3 – or did they just date, take a chance of love, get married and live life?
My recent post Tuesday’s Thoughts: On Saying Thank You

As a 31 yr old, newly available woman, I can COSIGN the laziness of today's man! SMH! Personally, I think its easy woman making it hard out here for the rest of us, lol. I blame them fully. They are RUINING what would probably be really great relationship options. SMH.

I know my worth…so I refuse…REFUSE to be out here clawing for some man's attention and time. I'm all for reciprocating but…I ain't doing backflips for any dude over a heap of minimalism, smh.

I swear, I ain't even gonna lie. Its a struggle to really believe in your own self-worth (relationship wise) when you feel like men (who you deem a possible fit) don't/won't see it, smh…a struggle that I'm determined to win, though, lol.

BlueSteele

In the words of WIM "LEAPING HIGH FIVE!"

blackphilo

I'm somewhat puzzled by exchanges of this kind. Men–here, see Stanley, FQ, CPT, Streetz, et al–continue to try to explain the perspective of a typical enough Black man with options/value. Apparently, quite a few Black women do not like this perspective and the realities underlying it. Such women prefer a more traditional, "lady"-oriented arrangement–where men take on the burden of pursuing, paying, and hoping for something more than the privilege of spending chaste time with a woman they're interested in.

Increasingly, Black men with options/value are saying, "We'll pass, since we're pretty good with our situations"; while Black women are saying, in response, "No, thanks. We'll wait"; to which the Black men say, "Cool. Good luck with that."

So what's the problem? Black men generally aren't driving these memes about the rising "lazy man" and the rare "good man." Nor are they reaching for judgments about how men who don't meet some woman-oriented standards of assertiveness, chivalry, etc. must have serious character flaws and, thus, are unworthy for women of value. If such women really are content enough to wait it out their prince (or minimally acceptable guy), maybe they could protest less in the meantime.

BlueSteele

That would hold weight if this article, which asserts that men are lazier daters, wasn't authored by a male man. *looks around, drops mic, exits room*

BlueSteele

And if most of the men you just listed didn't agree, for one reason or another, with the status quo that men are generally lazier.

blackphilo

None of the men agreed that "men are generally lazier," namely, in a pejorative sense–which is the sense that you favor. But people can read for themselves, and these men can speak for themselves.

Even if my reading were mistaken, I could withdraw the attribution and maintain the substance of what I said.

blackphilo

I guess we have a different understanding of "generally"–and of irony, and of the saying about one swallow. If you really believe that Black males generally are driving discussions of this sort, no reason to re-enter the room you exited.

Dante

I dont’t think men are lazy at all I just think that most men do not want to get married or be in a committed relationship, that does not make them lazy. Why should a man want to get married? Nobody really asks or answers that question.

In 2012-2013 what does a man really get out of marriage?

Felisha Bryant

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Nice. They realize that they are few and far between. A man that has a good job, a decent credit score, and his finances in order knows he can have a virtual smorgasbord when it comes to woman. From Ph.D candidates to those who exemplify ratchetery. Its not so much that they are lazy, but have rather pulled their chair to the all you can eat buffet and refuse to leave. Why should they? Women don't make them. And their counterparts are no better, encouraging then to higher levels of debauchery in an obscene showcase of the male ego at its finest. At this point, it play on brother…play on.

Graciela

I think male ego plays a huge part in why men are lazy in the dating game. Many women are so happy with the crumbs men can give they don't realize that if they just defended their worth, they would get more (or at the very least, disqualified those who are not fit for the job).

I tell this to my friends: "If you want a King, you have to rise up to the level of the Queen." Women these days think that once they get the King, they get the kingdom, when the truth is, a King is looking for another kingdom to merge assets with and create an EMPIRE.

So, as a female, I've come to observe that women are mostly to blame for this, thus turning men away from marriage and commitment. If a man knew when he was dealing with you that he will not lose his kingdom, but in actuality it will MULTIPLY by being with you, he wouldn't be hesitant to settle down, nor prove himself worthy to merge assets with. That is the ONLY instance where it would be smart to marry. When he comes across a woman who can multiply his net worth (not just financially, but in all areas of life).

At the end of the day, life is a game of power. While MOST women are looking at men to gain power because they too are lazy to cultivate it for themselves, men are on the lookout to prevent a loss of power by hooking up with the wrong woman. What kind of self respecting woman will look to a man to provide her power through a "title"? In this day and age when women have access to so much?

I can't blame men for being lazy, these dumbass women suffering from low self esteem let them. The last thing a man needs is a liability in the form of a "wife".

The CPT

Beautiful Breakdown.

Graciela

This kind of breakdown has been going on since the beginning of time. That's how dynasties and monarchies are built. That's how power couples come into existence. And that's why Jay married Bey.

People, ESPECIALLY women need to start looking at their lives the same way an investor looks at their stock portfolio and only make decisions that will give them a return on their investment.

Peter Parker

Church! lol That's why I keep stressing the importance of building a team with my future wife. Definitely not looking for a liability.

Graciela

Thanks! Trust me, I'm evaluating men to see where they fall in one of two categories: ASSET or LIABILITY. And I'm expecting men to evaluate me in the same way.
(Goes back to building her kingdom)

El Capitan

Bottom line up front – men don't have to try as hard because more and more women (see: hood rats, hoes, scaly wags) are simply giving away butt for free with zero effort on the part of the man.

If I'm a man with my stuff together, why should I be chivalrous when I can get the booty for free by moving down the line to the next one? That's the mentality, unfortunately.

Adonis

Women need to step up. Point blank. Men need to continue to fall back.

Rich

Back in 2005, I was living at home, driving my dad’s car, making less than half of what I do now, and in my pursuit of women, I went hard. I had to. I had little to offer (tangibly speaking), and I have to accentuate the positives, and hide the negatives….

Fast forward to 2012: Own place, own car, earning more than double than I did in 2005: I don’t go hard….I barely “go”, period…..

Why? Partially because I’m just spent, drained from years of going hard after women, many of which I had no business pursuing in the first place….

….but even more so, because I just don’t have to. I don’t feel the need or have the desire to go as hard as I did when I went as hard as I needed to…..Go Figure…..

I can promise you that if you go hard for a woman that owns the same as you. makes the same or more and likes you for who you actually are, that you will have a very happy girlfriend or even wife. Caus ethe fact that a lot of guys don't go hard, makes a guy that does an amazing exception. If he is black, compasionate, mature, considerate AND romantic. Then you've got in on lock!

Picture this: a woman that is sweet, caring and you find her attractive too. Now imagine she has dealt with this tired behaviour of several men and has started giving up hope. And there comes you. She doesn't have to know you normally don't do any effort. If you do with her… she will be very grateful.

Men who are lazy miss out on the amazing love that "traditional" women are willing to give. At the end of the day you don't want to be 49 in the club trying to holler at 20-somethings…

MaggK

Agreed with secretsweetlady.

You don't have to go hard after every women… Just go hard after THAT ONE!

The CPT

Again, this whole 49 in the club scenario doesn't always have to be. You would then be assuming that all women by that age are married or just gave up at that point. It's not true. It is not uncommon for me hearing people getting married in their 40s and 50s or just waiting until they truly know they are willing to put in the work to marry. The old man in the club scenario is one I never hear about from the old men I know because…*drumroll* most of them are good! The ones with resources and good character continue to win in their old age. I'm beginning to believe they put this fear of being "old and alone" into you all's heads so much that you believe this is the only outcome you can have if you're not married off into your 20s. There are a whole lot of "traditional" women floating around past 30+.

It's about perception. Statistically people are getting lonelier by the year in the Western world. The fact that you don't see proof of that doesn't make it non-existent. Besides, I truly wonder how many of these floating 30+ women are happy about not having a succesful love life. And how much hope is there left if you have to wait till your 40s to find love? I speak from my own perception if I say that going hard for a woman that is mentally and financially on your level, must be worth it if she is also into you. Like MaggK said, we are not talking about going hard after every woman. Just one that actually brings somethimg to the table (besides looks).

The CPT

"I truly wonder how many of these floating 30+ women are happy about not having a succesful love life."

You could not be more right about the 'old and alone fear' – a fear manufactured and sold by social programming….. which makes people make terrible relationship decisions out of fear and scarcity. It also makes both men and women go to desperate super-needy measures when it comes to attracting a partner.

dave

Men lazy? How about "smarter"? Who made up tjose old dating rules anyway? Men can live without them!

jadeontime38

I hate these times – I was standing out in front of a club for one -half hour and the only person that acknowleged me was a women who said I was cute. Men are so lazy. The only two men I met lately: was one I asked to dance with (just by chance) and another that came to my party. They are so lazy and it makes them seem so un- masculine such as turn off.

Ms. Jadeontime – You could help all of us "lazy"(?) men by telling us what you WOULD have done if you had been "properly" approached by a man who waqs not so lazy, and maybe called you cute.
I will assume that you were not going to ask any guys to dance?

Taylor

And I don’t see the lazy man thing changing. Atleast not until women change. I can use same charm, same tricks same jokes, and same formula on too man women. Think most guys playing the field can. Just makes women seem stupid. I will say the women that are doing the same thing as me are the ones I get along with best. I think that’s the direction women should go. Lose the fairy-tale love story catering to your needs bullshit and just hang out, have fun, be realistic and honest. The instagram makeup shopping spree peacocking has got to go. Guys don’t care for that. You don’t wear those clothes when your naked. And if you want a real relationship guys don’t care for it either. Much rather have you in a oversized tee shirt and sweatpants hanging out than a whole stupid get up