Hi and thanks for visiting the best Ravens forum on the planet. You do not have to be a member to browse the various forums, but in order to post and interact with your purple brethren, you will have to **register**. It only takes a couple of minutes. You can also use your Facebook account to log in....just click on the blue 'FConnect' link at the very top of the page.

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by Coastergenius

Webb has a high salary, low bonus contract with a big roster bonus coming up soon. Does it really make sense for us to pay top 5 CB money for a player that may never be the same, and we were able to win a SB without?

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by Coastergenius

Webb has a high salary, low bonus contract with a big roster bonus coming up soon. Does it really make sense for us to pay top 5 CB money for a player that may never be the same, and we were able to win a SB without?

So what exactly are you suggesting? Restructure his contract?? Wouldn't it be best to wait and see if he regains his form after next season?

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by esmd

As for moving Webb to safety. Stop! Just stop. First, this is his second ACL, so he'll have a better idea of what he can and can't do in his recovery. He also has two extra months to recover as opposed to last time. He's the best CB on the team. If you move him to safety you do it at the expense of weakening the CB position. Cary Williams is gone, so if you move Webb, your starting CB's are Jimmy Smith and Chykie Brown. Um....no. You find a safety to replace Reed, and you roll with Smith and Webb as your starters, with Pollard and Reed's replacement at S.

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by Tolucaraven

Not to dig, but are you a football expert with a crystal ball? I have no idea what they are going to do with Webb or the CB position, but him tearing bothACL's on non contact plays in 2 out of 3 years may indicate he has genetic bad knees. I hope not. But, just my opinion, I hate to lose him another year and playing FS would be safer for both him and the team at this juncture. I could go either way, but one of your higher paid players is not any good to you if he is on IR or impaired.

I could simply turn that around on you and say "Are you an orthopedist?" Bottom line, Webb will be a CB.

Never get in a fight with a pig; you both get muddy, and the pig likes it...

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

The assumption that Webb will recover even quicker and more completely from this ACL compared to his last one is just that, an assumption, not one with much evidence to support it. The team should prepare for the worst case scenario: Webb will not be the same player in 2013 that he was from 2011 up to his injury, possibly ever. Domonique Foxworth blew out his ACL and was never the same player again. I don't believe it will happen with Webb but it's possible.

As for the strength on the roster of the CB position vs. the safety position, first of all you've forgotten Corey Graham, the Ravens' defensive MVP through the latter half of the season and playoffs. He's under contract for 2013 as a likely starter and is coming off of a Pro Bowl-caliber season where he filled Webb's exact role (starter who moves to the slot in the nickel set) with virtually NO drop-off. Across from him would be Jimmy Smith or Chykie Brown, likely Smith if he continues to grow, develop, and stay healthy. He produced well in the playoffs and was a 1st round pick for a reason. The loser of that battle becomes the nickel and Asa Jackson is the #4.

I'd say we have some strength and youth at CB, although we need to add a 5th corner to the roster if Webb is moved. Let's compare that to safety. Under contract in 2013 the Ravens have Bernard Pollard set at SS and at FS... uhhh... Christian Thompson? Omar Brown? Anthony Levine? 3 second-year players with about 5 NFL games and 15 NFL snaps between them. That is a DIRE positional crisis unless a very talented/high draft pick seizes the job in camp or they add a FA/re-sign Reed. So they have youth and depth there but no clear starter and virtually no NFL experience.

All else equal, CB is a stronger group in 2013 than safety BY FAR. Moving Webb to FS for a year leaves us with a very decent young, talented lineup at CB and stability at S. Obviously if the FO feels Christian Thompson, Omar Brown, or a draft pick is ready to start in 2013 at FS then that's great, but why not have a contingency plan in place? Webb holds down FS until he's healthy enough to move back to CB and/or one of the younger guys is ready to step in at the position.

You're correct in that I forgot about Graham. Doesn't change anything else that I posted, he and Smith should be in the mix to be the starter opposite Webb. You don't move an all-pro caliber CB to Safety because of fan speculation/sentiment. He came back fine from the last one, and you give him the chance to do the same here. Unless he proves that he can't go at CB, you don't move him. And let's be honest, Foxworth was an aberration. The norm nowadays is for players to come back just as good as they were pre-injury.

Never get in a fight with a pig; you both get muddy, and the pig likes it...

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by esmd

I could simply turn that around on you and say "Are you an orthopedist?" Bottom line, Webb will be a CB.

I guess my point is we as fans don't know what the Ravens will do? I'm assume they will do what is best for the player and the team. To rule out Webb being moved to S with Reed possibly leaving isn't impossible. I don't know what they will do, nor do you. Are you Ozzie Newsome or one of those internet expert tough guys wishing he was GM? We are fans, not football executives. Webb could play both positions because he is a good football player period, but cause of his injury and the possibility of losing Ed Reed, it's not an impossible scenario. They did just win a SB with no Webb also. Forums are for opinions, I respect yours but don't act like your King of the Jungle. As Buck Showalter would say "they are a lot of moving parts" I am not advocating a move to Safety or staying a CB, we just don't know what will happen. Thier is free agency coming and the draft so it is a fluid situation.

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by esmd

You're correct in that I forgot about Graham. Doesn't change anything else that I posted, he and Smith should be in the mix to be the starter opposite Webb. You don't move an all-pro caliber CB to Safety because of fan speculation/sentiment. He came back fine from the last one, and you give him the chance to do the same here. Unless he proves that he can't go at CB, you don't move him. And let's be honest, Foxworth was an aberration. The norm nowadays is for players to come back just as good as they were pre-injury.

I don't know if I'd call it the "norm," and you claim Webb "came back fine from the last one," but it took him over a year. He never really looked 100% throughout all of 2010 after tearing his ACL in December 2009. Maybe he comes back faster from this one... maybe he doesn't. I just think people are too brazenly throwing caution to the wind and assuming that he'll have an Adrian Peterson-like recovery, when it's just as likely he doesn't come back 100% for a long while.

Obviously if Webb is 100% by opening day, then this whole discussion is probably moot, but the whole point of a temporary move to FS would be that the position would protect him from having to do things that he might not be ready to do AND reduce his chance of re-injury. Is Webb better as a 60% CB or 100% FS? And particularly given how miserably weak we are at FS next year and how comparatively strong at CB we are?

I think people think that Webb would somehow be hurt by moving to free safety for a year or half a year, but there is NO reason why Webb would be hurt by that. He was already being used in a semi-safety role in a lot of the nickel packages last year anyway. There's a reason why Webb plays inside in the nickel package, it's because he is better playing inside in space rather than on the boundary.

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I don't know if I'd call it the "norm," and you claim Webb "came back fine from the last one," but it took him over a year. He never really looked 100% throughout all of 2010 after tearing his ACL in December 2009. Maybe he comes back faster from this one... maybe he doesn't. I just think people are too brazenly throwing caution to the wind and assuming that he'll have an Adrian Peterson-like recovery, when it's just as likely he doesn't come back 100% for a long while.

Obviously if Webb is 100% by opening day, then this whole discussion is probably moot, but the whole point of a temporary move to FS would be that the position would protect him from having to do things that he might not be ready to do AND reduce his chance of re-injury. Is Webb better as a 60% CB or 100% FS? And particularly given how miserably weak we are at FS next year and how comparatively strong at CB we are?

I think people think that Webb would somehow be hurt by moving to free safety for a year or half a year, but there is NO reason why Webb would be hurt by that. He was already being used in a semi-safety role in a lot of the nickel packages last year anyway. There's a reason why Webb plays inside in the nickel package, it's because he is better playing inside in space rather than on the boundary.

You are correct, I remember Webb being interviewed and said it took him his second season back from the surgery to feel 100%, plus you have to wonder if he and the Ravens want to risk a reinjury. He might be the Ravens cover corner, but that doesnt help you if he gets hurt again or is limited or back to IR. 2 knee injuries in 3 years is a concern, IMO.

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by Tolucaraven

Not to dig, but are you a football expert with a crystal ball? I have no idea what they are going to do with Webb or the CB position, but him tearing bothACL's on non contact plays in 2 out of 3 years may indicate he has genetic bad knees. I hope not. But, just my opinion, I hate to lose him another year and playing FS would be safer for both him and the team at this juncture. I could go either way, but one of your higher paid players is not any good to you if he is on IR or impaired.

The first one was non-contact.

On the second one, he ran into Dez Bryant after Bryant suddenly stopped running his route with Webb trailing right behind him. It almost looked like Bryant was trying to do a double move even though Webb was already behind him, which makes no sense but that's how it looked.
Webb's knee slammed into the back of Bryant's leg while Webb's foot was planted and his leg extended.

The first one was something of a freak injury, but the second one was Bryant doing something unexpected.

Re: Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74

The first one was non-contact.

On the second one, he ran into Dez Bryant after Bryant suddenly stopped running his route with Webb trailing right behind him. It almost looked like Bryant was trying to do a double move even though Webb was already behind him, which makes no sense but that's how it looked.
Webb's knee slammed into the back of Bryant's leg while Webb's foot was planted and his leg extended.

The first one was something of a freak injury, but the second one was Bryant doing something unexpected.

Yes, i saw it on replay. It was very benign contact though. Nothing outrageous. It didnt even look like his knee even buckled or anything. It was flukey looking injury. I hope he isnt a great player with lifetime injury issues that would be a shame. It's nothing like what Ngata did to RGIII or other knee injuries that you normally see.