The Annual Pass started in October 2011. Most of the people who signed up have already either likely quit or are still with the game

True that.....
The World of Warcraft Annual Pass will be available until 12:01 a.m. PDT on May 1, 2012... We have only 2 more month. And those 2 month have only a fraction of AP holders left. The majority of AP subs came in the beginning, so people had their dibs on D3 and on the MoP beta.
Anyone who joined after that, did so only for the mount.... basically very little reason to join at all, besides that mount.

they went too far with this panda land, its like they had nothing to go with and took a bucket full of talking zoo animals and put them on an island and call it an xpac.
there is nothing intersting or new in MOP , its just a dry xpac, no story progression.
wrath was the best xpac in terms of story and development , each faction race and hero got his story progressed , on the way to the LK we got an old god and titan development. we had the battle of UC after what the forsaken pulled at the wrath gate...there were so many things on that xpac...what do we have here? left over of a dead old god spirit called the sha? evil race called mugo that was defeated once before by only the pandas now come again and its our problem? dinos island? boring "war" story that after 20 years of warcraft when there is no obvious winner , now we are told its the main story for the xpac? who will win? no one...
and add to that the obvious sell out of making a kong fu panda race, you can say what you want but if you realy think that blizz had no intention to ride the popularity wave of martial arts animal that loves to drink and eat you lying to youself.

which capital city pre MOP have ever had a keggery ? srsly...a drunken martial art race that can even tank while drunk without any plate armor or shield or some kind of powerfull magic of transformation to a giant beast? its an insult to the other classes...a cup of beer can make you tank a full elemental boss like ragnaros...srsly?

I wish it were its own game and not forced down our throats. Samwise lost my respect not because he is a bad artist, he is a good one, but because of his lack of insight about pandas not fitting into WC universe.

Part of it just may be politics within company, maybe he wanted more of a say in the game, maybe he had his agenda. Who knows?

Why don't the Pandaren fit the WC-universe?

Maybe people would respect your opinion more if you stopped with that bullshit and just stated that "I dislike the Pandaren" and then left this thread?

Originally Posted by killidan

You did not understand the discussion at all. Please go back to page 1 and read.

No, it's quite clear what this discussion is about: Some people dislike the setting and feel the need to "convince" everyone that it's bad.
Well, tough luck.. Many people actually like it.
Not everything can cater to your individual needs and desires.

You could argue that Northrend was completely based on Norse Mythology, hence under the viking description.
Borean Tundra = Norway, which had some viking colony's up near the Polar Circle, thus capable of seeing the aurora...and of course being cold.
Scholar Basin = Hel in Norse Mythology, where the Godess Hel had the ability to create paradise or cause disaster in her realm. (Hel and Hel is actually two different things. Hel is the place, while Hel is the Godess)
Howling Fjord = Viking Fjords, which fits.

I could go on about the other zones, but it could be a stretch some places.
Overall, Northrend is basically a takeout from Norse mythology or rather, Scandinavia as a whole.

True that.....
The World of Warcraft Annual Pass will be available until 12:01 a.m. PDT on May 1, 2012... We have only 2 more month. And those 2 month have only a fraction of AP holders left. The majority of AP subs came in the beginning, so people had their dibs on D3 and on the MoP beta.
Anyone who joined after that, did so only for the mount.... basically very little reason to join at all, besides that mount.

Personally find the whole MoP approach aesthetically is pretty difficult to stomach. There's no Chinese anything, but there's an overbearing and very forced feeling of McChinese, and that rankles a lot. Place feels like a theme park, everything is plastic and would sound hollow if you knocked on it.

Whole World of Warcraft is a hollow Warhammer rip-off (and Blizzard admited it, they know that their products are mass market friendly versions of existing ideas). Who really cares? It never felt deep and real.

You may not understand and think I am thick. I'd feel offended if I didn't have a PhD from a top 3 university.

I'm sure that's more impressive to young guys who don't hold a doctorate of their own. Congratulations, you're a successful academic grind, possibly good in your specialty, and that is as far as it extends. Since you miss obvious points like the Dwarfs having a cooking quest for haggis of all things, you may need to brush up on your research skills.

A whole expansion on Paris Hilton [sic]? That isn't what was being debated. Your point was: "Chen was in where in WoW? Wrath? Cata?" The answer isn't what you'd like, but it is simple ... not Wrath, not Cata, not even TBC, but rather Vanilla. You can complain that you don't like it, that you don't find it adequate, but it was there. Likewise, you may not want to acknowledge that haggis is a rather particularly iconic dish, but Bobbie Burns would like words with you in that case.

Keep trying. The glaring oversights are even more humorous in light of your academic claims. Haggis. Look it up.

Personally find the whole MoP approach aesthetically is pretty difficult to stomach. There's no Chinese anything, but there's an overbearing and very forced feeling of McChinese, and that rankles a lot. Place feels like a theme park, everything is plastic and would sound hollow if you knocked on it.

And how exactly would you interject some authenticity into the game so that it was real Chinese and not "McChinese?'

they went too far with this panda land, its like they had nothing to go with and took a bucket full of talking zoo animals and put them on an island and call it an xpac.
there is nothing intersting or new in MOP , its just a dry xpac, no story progression.
wrath was the best xpac in terms of story and development , each faction race and hero got his story progressed , on the way to the LK we got an old god and titan development. we had the battle of UC after what the forsaken pulled at the wrath gate...there were so many things on that xpac...what do we have here? left over of a dead old god spirit called the sha? evil race called mugo that was defeated once before by only the pandas now come again and its our problem? dinos island? boring "war" story that after 20 years of warcraft when there is no obvious winner , now we are told its the main story for the xpac? who will win? no one...
and add to that the obvious sell out of making a kong fu panda race, you can say what you want but if you realy think that blizz had no intention to ride the popularity wave of martial arts animal that loves to drink and eat you lying to youself.

which capital city pre MOP have ever had a keggery ? srsly...a drunken martial art race that can even tank while drunk without any plate armor or shield or some kind of powerfull magic of transformation to a giant beast? its an insult to the other classes...a cup of beer can make you tank a full elemental boss like ragnaros...srsly?

Probably trolling, but I'll tackle this anyway.

No story progression? The stories of Varian, Anduin, Jaina, LOR'THEMAR of all people, Garrosh, Thrall, Vol'jin are all being advanced this expansion even if you ignore all of the stories in Pandaria itself. And that's just in 5.1. MoP and 5.2 are also expanding on the stories of the Zandalari, the Titans, and we're even dealing with the aftermath of an old god's death in the Sha.

You're also selling brewmaster's short. There's more to it than 'get drunk and you can tank!' They DO us a magical force, it's called chi. The same force mistweavers and windwalkers draw upon. It's about chi and intense physical training not just getting drunk.

There may not have been a Stormstout style brewery pre MOP but there SHOULD have been considering how important brew is to the dwarves, and there are stockpiles of kegs in certain inns. There's even a Holiday EVENT based on booze.

Just because there won't be a final winner in the horde/alliance war doesn't mean there aren't interesting stories to tell either, or that impactful things such as the purge of Dalaran can't happen. Tell me, how is that any worse than some new third party evil rising that we all KNOW is going to lose? How is that any worse than knowing the horde won't crush the alliance or the Alliance defeat the Horde? We all KNEW Illidan would lose we all KNEW Arthas would be brought down we all KNEW Deathwing would be bested, how is the current story any different?

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 11:36 AM ----------

Originally Posted by bionics

And how exactly would you interject some authenticity into the game so that it was real Chinese and not "McChinese?'

Blizzard drew inspiration from china certainly, but Pandaria is NOT china nor should it ever strive to be exactly LIKE china. People like to complain that there's 'too much china' while also complaining that they took too many liberties with china?

"If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

I only bought marshes of crapdaria because I'm a sheep and just like I bought Eminem's Recovery album because it had Eminem written on it and I thought it would be MAYBE finally as good as his old stuff so did I blindly buy crapdaria hoping it would MAYBE be good but of course the moment I got there I had that moron tarazu or whatever tell me not to kill things because his land is special or whatever like I'm supposed to give a shit. Telling me that I'm barbaric and whatever when all his people afterwards give me quests involving killing anything ranging from rabbits to bugs to cats to tigers to horde to birds.

HYPOCRISY.

4/5 quests given to me by the peaceful pandarens involved KILLING and VIOLENCE, at least the Night Elves weren't hypocritical about it they tell me "kill these things to protect the forest/ to preserve balance" and that's it.

Pandarens tell me on one side to preserve harmony and enjoy life on the other to slaughter all life.

TO HELL with them, TO HELL with the shahahaaaaaaa, TO HELL with their dumb childlike spirits and gods and flying dragons, TO HELL with their unoriginal lore and storyline, and TO HELL with blizzard.

If I ever keep buying their products I'm a dumb child and a sheep because I keep believing they'll somehow put some sense back into this game. Who am I kidding, their next expansion will probably have Eminem singing

I'M NOOOOT AFRAAAAAIDDDD,
OF THE SHAAAAAA,
EVERYBODY,
GOOO KILL SOME WILDLIFE,
BRING ME BACK THEIR PAWS,
AND THEIR YOUNG,
SO I CAN COOK
A POTION TO HEAL MYSELF,
NO I'M NOT SELFISH,
SERIOUSLY I'M NOT!!!!
HOLLA IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WANT MORE DAILY QUESTS

LAALALALALALALALALALAALLAALALAL
ALALALALALALALALALAALALALAL

whatever

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 07:20 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Florena

Tell me, how is that any worse than some new third party evil rising that we all KNOW is going to lose? How is that any worse than knowing the horde won't crush the alliance or the Alliance defeat the Horde? We all KNEW Illidan would lose we all KNEW Arthas would be brought down we all KNEW Deathwing would be bested, how is the current story any different?[COLOR="red"]

How about the villain doesn't lose? How about the villain takes over our cities and we have to fight constantly just to keep control of our kingdoms? No that's too hard for blizzard, have pet battles instead.

I only bought marshes of crapdaria because I'm a sheep and just like I bought Eminem's Recovery album because it had Eminem written on it and I thought it would be MAYBE finally as good as his old stuff so did I blindly buy crapdaria hoping it would MAYBE be good but of course the moment I got there I had that moron tarazu or whatever tell me not to kill things because his land is special or whatever like I'm supposed to give a shit. Telling me that I'm barbaric and whatever when all his people afterwards give me quests involving killing anything ranging from rabbits to bugs to cats to tigers to horde to birds.

HYPOCRISY.

4/5 quests given to me by the peaceful pandarens involved KILLING and VIOLENCE, at least the Night Elves weren't hypocritical about it they tell me "kill these things to protect the forest/ to preserve balance" and that's it.

Pandarens tell me on one side to preserve harmony and enjoy life on the other to slaughter all life.

TO HELL with them, TO HELL with the shahahaaaaaaa, TO HELL with their dumb childlike spirits and gods and flying dragons, TO HELL with their unoriginal lore and storyline, and TO HELL with blizzard.

If I ever keep buying their products I'm a dumb child and a sheep because I keep believing they'll somehow put some sense back into this game. Who am I kidding, their next expansion will probably have Eminem singing

I'M NOOOOT AFRAAAAAIDDDD,
OF THE SHAAAAAA,
EVERYBODY,
GOOO KILL SOME WILDLIFE,
BRING ME BACK THEIR PAWS,
AND THEIR YOUNG,
SO I CAN COOK
A POTION TO HEAL MYSELF,
NO I'M NOT SELFISH,
SERIOUSLY I'M NOT!!!!
HOLLA IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WANT MORE DAILY QUESTS

LAALALALALALALALALALAALLAALALAL
ALALALALALALALALALAALALALAL

whatever

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 07:20 PM ----------

How about the villain doesn't lose? How about the villain takes over our cities and we have to fight constantly just to keep control of our kingdoms? No that's too hard for blizzard, have pet battles instead.

But they would still never win. They would still never wipe us out. They would never conquor the Horde and Alliance even if they siege our cities every day, because if they win in the end it would be a boring story. We KNOW that canonically the Legion or old gods aren't going to wipe us out. Having Cataclysm 2.0 but with random attacks on our cities isn't going to change that fact.

As for the pandaren hypocrisy, their philosophy is not 'never do anything violent!' They are peaceful but NOT pacifists. The Shado-Pan work tirelessly to protect the land from the mogu and sha and mantid. They're not about pacifism, and Taran Zhu's warning wasn't about violence itself. He as 1. mad that we were bringing OUR war to THEIR shores, and 2. the EMOTIONS that our war was stirring had the potential to rouse the sha, which it did. And no, the pandaren are not perfect. You can find hipocracy in every race in Azeroth. If you don't like MOP, fair enough, but let's look at what we actually have here.

"If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

But they would still never win. They would still never wipe us out. They would never conquor the Horde and Alliance even if they siege our cities every day, because if they win in the end it would be a boring story. We KNOW that canonically the Legion or old gods aren't going to wipe us out. Having Cataclysm 2.0 but with random attacks on our cities isn't going to change that fact.

As for the pandaren hypocrisy, their philosophy is not 'never do anything violent!' They are peaceful but NOT pacifists. The Shado-Pan work tirelessly to protect the land from the mogu and sha and mantid. They're not about pacifism, and Taran Zhu's warning wasn't about violence itself. He as 1. mad that we were bringing OUR war to THEIR shores, and 2. the EMOTIONS that our war was stirring had the potential to rouse the sha, which it did. And no, the pandaren are not perfect. You can find hipocracy in every race in Azeroth. If you don't like MOP, fair enough, but let's look at what we actually have here.

Considering he started off his post with "Crapdaria", I stopped reading there.

The amount of bias and hate toward Blizzard is just overwhelming even for the portions I skimmed.

That's a well though-out and researched attempt. I applaud your efforts! However, I have to say that much of the evidence you present is flimsy at best. Although the Sha do seem to be based off of the idea of sha from feng shui, the only real symbolism between the Mantid and China is that the mantis has some Chinese significance in mysticism and astrology. However, I do not see much connection between the Dread Wastes and the links you have to the Chinese version of Hell.

Ok, I think here is a matter of opinion. Unfortunately, as I can't seem to find the pictures of mantid statues with asian growns, I can't really fully tie in the mantids to the chinese. I know there were somewhere, I even made a thread about it when they were presented... maybe Blizzard changed their mind about them? I hope so.

Technically, the Isle of Giants in the next patch is, basically, the Un'Goro/Sholazar Basin of Pandaria. Not to mention that the Isle of Thunder is made up of entirely Mogu, Saurok, and the Zandalari.

Yes, I'm really glad they are bringing some different zone which moves slightly away from the asian ideas, you know that saying, better late then never. This shows they did listen to the people a bit at least. I'm still not convinced to get MoP myself, but we'll see based on how the patches go and what expansion comes next too. Unlike other people who say "oh I hope WoW dies" or whatever, I don't hope that. WoW was (and to some still is) a great game, and I hope it will continue to live. I admit I don't want it to hold a monopol over all MMOs though, for the simple reason that competition creates improvement in all the competitors.

If you insist on thinking all I'm trying to do is form a Flame War, I'm going to break down your post and show as to how you were those two things I outlined: biased and hateful.

Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1

I only bought marshes of crapdaria because I'm a sheep and just like I bought Eminem's Recovery album because it had Eminem written on it and I thought it would be MAYBE finally as good as his old stuff so did I blindly buy crapdaria hoping it would MAYBE be good but of course the moment I got there I had that moron tarazu or whatever tell me not to kill things because his land is special or whatever like I'm supposed to give a shit. Telling me that I'm barbaric and whatever when all his people afterwards give me quests involving killing anything ranging from rabbits to bugs to cats to tigers to horde to birds.

Your first mistake in the entire post was calling it Crapdaria. If you didn't want it to be Troll bait or incite someone into calling you out, you wouldn't of put it there. Instead of showing actual respect on the forums and placing your criticism in an actually productive way, you decide to insult the game and go on from there.

Next, it seems that your "Tarazu" argument is based on one entire thing. Just because one single person said something as you quested, somehow it threw off your entire opinion of the expansion in and of itself, and throttled your disdain for it.

As for your killing argument as a whole though, humans kill animals every day and I only see a few organizations speaking out about it. If you're in support of something like PETA or don't find any justification in killing animals, that's fine. If not, your argument and statement of "HYPOCRISY" has no place.

Killing Animals, certain ones at that, is different than killing Humans or members of your own race. The Pandaren do, like WE do, what they must to survive. They gather necessary supplies and work in harmony with one another.

To further add to this statement, I was actually questing in Krasarang Wilds this morning. As I neared the Temple of the Crane, the Pandaren I encountered actually spoke of your point, Ragnarok, and quite ironically if I might add. His statement was basically unless pushed to the edge, no form of violence should be enacted, but since the Saurok AND the Sha were weighing down on the Pandaren people, they must do all they can to survive.

Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1

4/5 quests given to me by the peaceful pandarens involved KILLING and VIOLENCE, at least the Night Elves weren't hypocritical about it they tell me "kill these things to protect the forest/ to preserve balance" and that's it.

I'm pretty sure you can read my last argument as for this. Oh, and just to further add to it, I'll point out this fact:

That 4/5ths you speak of, is killing Sha, which are not actual "living" beings, defending Pandaren homes and actual Pandaren from the plundering efforts of Mogu, Saurok, and Fear Driven Mantid, while the rest of the quests don't even involve taking orders from Pandaren; they involve direct orders from the Grummels, who don't seem to hold the same ideaology as the Pandaren, and the actual Horde Leaders themselves, asking you to scout or kill certain species for survival and scouting means.

Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1

TO HELL with them, TO HELL with the shahahaaaaaaa, TO HELL with their dumb childlike spirits and gods and flying dragons, TO HELL with their unoriginal lore and storyline, and TO HELL with blizzard.

If I ever keep buying their products I'm a dumb child and a sheep because I keep believing they'll somehow put some sense back into this game. Who am I kidding, their next expansion will probably have Eminem singing [/B][/I]

Oh, and to immaturity we now fall in your argument sir, using Caps Lock and terms like "childish". I watched a Tauren mother die while questing in Krasarang, which the mother's husband pleaded and tried to use the Light to bring her back to life. That's childish, right?

The unoriginality you speak if is actually confounding. You see, the entirety of this story with the Pandaren IS Original. Things like Wrath's story (which is my favorite, so don't find me biased in the slightest) and Cataclysm's (which was awful) were driven on rails due to a Cover Villain.

It was obvious, however the story would end, the villain was going to die, some hero would have to sacrifice themself, and all would be well in the world.

With Mist's story of War and finding What we fight for, it actually delivers on a personal level the depth and true value of the Mists story. We don't know if Garrosh will die. We don't know if Thrall will survive the Siege. We don't know if any key characters will fall in the final Patch or Patches of Mists. We have no idea what will happen.

Sure, we can make predictions like any other expansion, but even I can't make a full fledged prediction on what will happen. The amount of development Blizzard has flooded into characters, who were NEGLECTED, like Baine (even though his development wasn't HUGE in 5.1, it was large in the book and it was at least something) and Lor'themar. Lor'themar himself has become even considered by the community to possibly become the Warchief, simply due to how amazing he was presented in 5.1, and hopefully in 5.2 as well.

I see nothing Childish about their "Gods", nor their Child Like Spirits. You mean those care free, embodiments of joy that represent Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water on Pandaria, only for them to be corrupted by our own outbreak of war on the lands of Pandaria? For them to become evil and give into hatred and despair? That seems very childish to me, Ragnarok.

Oh, and those Sha that you also name as "childish" or "stupid", drove an entire race to nearly engulf the entirety of Pandaria in their swarm, flood the Mogu with so much might they nearly conquered Pandaria as a whole a second time, and are the prospect of Garrosh's attempts at infinite power on Pandaria.

They are catalysts of the dark in our hearts. Their appearances are even fearsome, more-so I've found than characters like Kaelthas, Lady Vashj, and a multitude of other bosses/lore figures. They give me an Old God vibe, one that's creepy, and like they're actually compelling villains: it's like looking at the Fear in your mind, or the Hatred you harbor, or even the Despair that consumes your soul; you get the picture.

Now I'm not even going to break down your song, nor your comparison to Eminem due to your "personal" opinion and experience, but that part of your post was marginally immature mate.

Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1

How about the villain doesn't lose? How about the villain takes over our cities and we have to fight constantly just to keep control of our kingdoms? No that's too hard for blizzard, have pet battles instead.

Now why would you compare this to Pet Battles? I'm sorry, I didn't know you knew how to develop a game, and if you do, good for ya!

I'll give you 2 issues, because of your own selfish wantings for "Crapdaria", with your idea of "HEY LETS HAVE THE KINGDOMS GETTING PLUNDERED CONSTANTLY:

1. Grieving at its finest. Some people just like to relax in Cities or certain zones, and having them under siege constantly would cause the forums to explode in boundless numbers of threads.

2. Wasted development time. They're adding sort of real time events with 5.2 with the new Isle, but wasting that development time on your idea would take away from future, massive patches that fuel the rest of the community. It could take away a resource or a mind for an amazing raid idea, or boss idea, or even concept for a classes' talents or abilities.

Although only 2, the amount of grieving would be the largest problem. I get that it's what you want, but as for the rest of your idea, Blizzard tries to please EVERYONE, yet can't. They're doing a damn fine job with the Casual and Hardcore crowd, no matter people's issues with their choices.

And as for "How about the Villain doesn't lose", I'll agree, I want that, but it kind of happened in Wrath.

The fact that the Lich King had to have a catalyst at ALL times means we can never truly end him. He will always win, or else the entirety of Azeroth would be swallowed up by the cold dead hands of the corpses that drive the Scourge.

Not just that, but the Old Gods have been sort of winning since the beginning. For all we know, the Aspects losing their Immortality and near God Like powers at the end of Cataclysm could have been theirs, or just N'zoth's, true goal all along. The Aspects were instated to protect the mortal planes of Azeroth, AND that of the Emerald Dream, from the Old Gods and other evils, but without their powers, there's nothing they can do now. The Old Gods have rid themselves of one of their biggest enemies.

Having no cover villain for Pandaria has taken Character Development away from one SINGLE villain, and allowed Blizzard to place it on a multitude of Heroes AND Villains.

I point back to my point with Baine and Lorthemar, along with now Garrosh's further amazing development, Vol'jin's too, and making Thrall less of a "Mary Sue". Not to mention some of the Alliance leaders finally getting their own stories of how they will deal with this peaceful new land, abundant with priceless values and resources.

Your entire argument and statement was just filled with spewing insult after insult toward and expansion that can't cater toward what "you" want. If you looked a bit deeper, and actually analyzed all you saw instead of just assuming based on one or two things you see, you probably wouldn't hate it, nor even dislike it.

There, Ragnarok. You can rebuttal if you want and throw insults left and right if you wish, I really don't mind!

Your post was insulting, biased and overly favoritist of the crap you believe is supposed to be Warcraft. I'd die of old age before I could explain everything that's wrong with it, so simply, go to hell.