thanks for the spelling tip - maybe next time you can agree or disagree on the merit of the entire post...not one aspect of it.... now go get your shinebox for JoshiePosted by georom4

....so what is an acceptable cost/win ratio? And who are these bargain buys?

As to the rest of your post, do you have actual examples where Beckett has been a bad teammate, or are you just going by what the Globe reported about beer and chicken? Beer and chicken the writers must have known about while the Sox were on pace for 100 wins most of the summer? Was he a bad teammate while leading 2 seperate teams to WS wins?

In Response to Re: Lester:"I'm sad to see Tito go"-does he owe Tito and Red Sox fans an apology? : ....so what is an acceptable cost/win ratio? And who are these bargain buys? As to the rest of your post, do you have actual examples where Beckett has been a bad teammate, or are you just going by what the Globe reported about beer and chicken? Beer and chicken the writers must have known about while the Sox were on pace for 100 wins most of the summer? Was he a bad teammate while leading 2 seperate teams to WS wins?Posted by SonicsMonksLyresVicars

i guess you don't read much...how about his old Florida manager corroboratingthe very same idiocy by Beckett when he played for the Marlins????

The reference to Lester's last four starts as a sign of his lack of effort is a salacious and silly reference.

Why?

One must count the whole season. And in Lester's case, career and life. If you subtract four games from Lester's season, his season was again well above average. Since overcoming cancer, a huge plus in the character column all by itself, Lester has been nothing short of stellar. He has been in the Cy Young conversation annually and has proven his merit time and time again.

A bad streak? It is as much a befuddling thing to Lester as to us. But that does happen in baseball. Hitters have the cold stretches all the time. A little bit of a mechanical break in Jon's approach is all that it takes to have some bad games .... not to mention personal questioning as to what is going on.

I believe that Jon has already made apologies for the bad ending. Onxe is enough ... time to move forward and build, not pick old scabs.

Why are you so rude? Does it make you feel better about yourself, more powerful?

I've seen the quotes you mentioned....what's the big deal? None of this was mentioned until recently....some of it from years ago....no, it's not ideal behaviour but it's nothing compared to, say, Mantle's and Ruth's boozing. If Beckett continues to have solid regular seasons (mostly) and be a playoff ace he can eat all the chicken he wants in my opinion. Of course, too much chicken and he might not be able to....but he was excellent overall during 2011 and now is being scapegoated.

Also, still waiting to hear what you consider to be an acceptable cost/win ratio? And the names of these bargain buys?

I think trading Lester or Beckett would be a huge message to the team - but it won't happen because at the end of the day - the team's leadership believes they need those arms even if they are attached to fat bodies and weak minds.

In Response to Re: Lester:"I'm sad to see Tito go"-does he owe Tito and Red Sox fans an apology? : Why are you so rude? Does it make you feel better about yourself, more powerful? I've seen the quotes you mentioned....what's the big deal? None of this was mentioned until recently....some of it from years ago....no, it's not ideal behaviour but it's nothing compared to, say, Mantle's and Ruth's boozing. If Beckett continues to have solid regular seasons (mostly) and be a playoff ace he can eat all the chicken he wants in my opinion. Of course, too much chicken and he might not be able to....but he was excellent overall during 2011 and now is being scapegoated. Also, still waiting to hear what you consider to be an acceptable cost/win ratio? And the names of these bargain buys?Posted by SonicsMonksLyresVicars

if you think Josh was an ace and leading us to the playoffs with that gut and attitude - there's not much I can tell you....who would have been better last year starting in September, Aceves or Beckett??? I think we already have that guy on the team...the fact that Bard is being groomed to start spells curtains for your boy imho...he is a cancer....and an unapologetic one at that (and he was my fav pitcher before he became a first-class jerk)...

In Response to Re: Lester:"I'm sad to see Tito go"-does he owe Tito and Red Sox fans an apology? : if you think Josh was an ace and leading us to the playoffs with that gut and attitude - there's not much I can tell you....who would have been better last year starting in September, Aceves or Beckett??? I think we already have that guy on the team...the fact that Bard is being groomed to start spells curtains for your boy imho...he is a cancer....and an unapologetic one at that (and he was my fav pitcher before he became a first-class jerk)... good riddance....

In Response to Re: Lester:"I'm sad to see Tito go"-does he owe Tito and Red Sox fans an apology? : if you think Josh was an ace and leading us to the playoffs with that gut and attitude - there's not much I can tell you....who would have been better last year starting in September, Aceves or Beckett??? I think we already have that guy on the team...the fact that Bard is being groomed to start spells curtains for your boy imho...he is a cancer....and an unapologetic one at that (and he was my fav pitcher before he became a first-class jerk)... good riddance....Posted by georom4

We'll have to agree to disagree. You see a guy that bagged it in September, while I see a guy that was having an excellent season before spraining his ankle on 5 September.

Isn't it possible that after an outstanding season he was either injured or in slump for the last two game? What evidence have you seen that has convinced you that he threw in the towel? Or are you a shareholder in a competing fried chicken company? ;-)

"...But we lost because we did not play good baseball. We did not execute Boston Red Soxgood baseball... I'm not making excuses for what we did. I'm owning up to what I did. But I can honestly tell you that I was prepared every five days -- and so were the other guys -- to go out and perform. We were physically prepared to perform. But I stunk, plain and simple. I'm not going to shy away from that. I stunk.... When all is said and done, none of this was Tito's fault, or Theo (Epstein)'s fault, or the fault of Larry Lucchino or John Henry or Tom Werner. It was not the trainer, Mike Reinold, or (assistant trainers) Greg Barajas or Masai (Takahashi) or (strength coach) Dave Page... It was not their fault. It was our fault. That's the message I'm trying to get across. It's not about beers, it's not about Tito, it's not whether there were no rules, it's not anything. It's performance. And we didn't do it." Jon Lester

Great retort Moonslav. It won't change the minds of Georom or Softlaw however since they are excercising their right to be headstrong and obstinate. It is more entertaining to come here and be that way.

Lester and others certainly struggled in September, but to say it was because of lack of effort is reaching. It's hard to prove one way or another, but I tend to think that injuries and other factors played into the final results.

But I can honestly tell you that I was prepared every five days -- and so were the other guys -- to go out and perform. We were physically prepared to perform

That is not an apology, nor is it the truth. The Red Sox have been about injury excuse for years. Injuries are part of it for every team, but they are not an excuse for a half a billion spent on labor.

Some of the forum whiners wanted Youk to play hurt and claimed that he was faking his injuries. It is not in their whining makeup to admit player injuries since that removes such player from scapegoat potential. They would rather blame things on ambition, attitude, and of course fried chicken, beer, and video games. How boring the forum would be if there was no scapegoating.

Some of the forum whiners wanted Youk to play hurt and claimed that he was faking his injuries. It is not in their whining makeup to admit player injuries since that removes such player from scapegoat potential. They would rather blame things on ambition, attitude, and of course fried chicken, beer, and video games. How boring the forum would be if there was no scapegoating.Posted by UticaClub

Unfortunately, looking like you are trying hard every minute of everyday is not what makes a player great. Batting slumps and poor pitching stretches are not necessarily a result of lack of effort or preparedness. It just happens, even to the great players. Even clutch players have some poor stretches in crunch time from time to time. That's the nature of baseball. That's why there are no Michael Jordan's in MLB.

Beckett was on pace to become one of the best all time postseason starting pitcher. He had a rough stretch in 2008, 2009 and this past September. Injuries played a role in some of those struggles, but to determine that Josh lacks heart is totally baseless. Josh still has a 3.07 postseason ERA and a 0.940 WHIP. I'll take that anyday.

Lester has started 6 postseason games and pitched in 2 others. He has a 2.57 ERA and 1.119 WHIP in 42 postseason innings. He had a rough September. There could be hundreds of factors involved. I see no reason to think it was because he lost desire or got complacent.