Yes several times. Have the IC report it to AFRCC. Depending on your state you notify the sheriff then go home and go back to bed.

^^ this.

I've only encountered an uncooperative hangar owner once. ELT search and the guy refused to allow us into his hangar, claiming there was "no way" that the ELT signal was emanating from his hangar or anything inside. (I suspect he thought the earth was flat too...) Absolutely impossible that any ELT in his hangar could be activated.

"oookay" was my response, and I found a landline and called the MC (thats how long ago it was. LOL), reported that we were denied access to the hangar but that all indications were that the signal was coming from there. Because we could see the tail numbers of the planes thru the window, we dutifully recorded the tail numbers, passed them along to the MC and were told "OK, you're done. RTB."

It my understanding that AFRCC made a few phone calls to the local law enforcement and they took over. The ELT stopped transmitting within a few hours. At that point, its not my circus nor my monkeys.

So you're on an AFAM looking for an ELT. You isolate it to a hangar but the owner won't cooperate with you. How many have encountered this and how did you handle it?

I haven't experienced this problem personally, however in the Washington State emergency services training for air crew several examples of clueless or uncooperative hangar owners, property owners, etc. were discussed. Bumping the 'problem' upstairs to MC (which in our case is the Washington State EOC and EMS aviation person) effectively deals with the problem. I understand that knowingly (defined as you do known, or should know) allowing or facilitating false transmission of an ELT signal has a very hefty fine attached. If my notes from a few years ago are correct, the full penalty is upwards from $35K. According to the Washington EOC aviation SAR person, it's been levied a few times. I think that aids with establishing the proper mindset to accept a "teachable" moment.

I had one once where the A/C owner would not let us in to confirm that it was his aircraft. All signs said yes, but he vigorously denied all possibility it was his. He offered to retrieve the ELT to prove it was not transmitting. He went into the hanger, the signal went silent, and he emerged a short time later with his proof - the disconnected ELT less the battery. Hmm....must not have been his afterall.

Still gets me to this day how serious this guy was. I kept thinking he was going to laugh, slap me on the shoulder and say thanks for looking out for him. But no, he walked away seemingly angry we would dare accuse him of ELT mischief. Maybe he was a habitual offender and had caught a fine in the past. I will likely never know.

I have had a similar situation before. If you're in the field...let the IC know and they'll deal with it. The IC calls AFRCC, and AFRCC takes care of it. On my clearly non-emergency mission, they called the FCC who sent a monitoring van the next day and wrote a very expensive citation to the property owner for transmitting a fake distress signal.

Not having had to chase down an ELT in a hangar before, I'll ask. If you find the hangar and its at night and no one is there, how do you figure out who the owner is? Have to find a after hours contact number for an airport manager first and hope he answers?

^Yes, or the local LE or FD might have a number. There are many times where the search is suspended for the night and the next morning more phone calls are made and/or a team goes back out to the airport.

Not having had to chase down an ELT in a hangar before, I'll ask. If you find the hangar and its at night and no one is there, how do you figure out who the owner is? Have to find a after hours contact number for an airport manager first and hope he answers?

A better question is if you find the hangar and its at night and no one is there, why doesn't someone on the team or the IC have a contact number for the hangar owner? Seems like there should be some kind of interface between CAP and the local aviation community. Since you're more than likely operating in your local area, you should know who the local players are. We used to keep a master list of airport managers, hangar owners and marina owners/managers that we'd put to use frequently to get ELTs and EPIRBs silenced. It'd be updated regularly and the ICs had a copy. Do some outreach, stop maintaining cylinders of mediocrity, and work WITH the greater CA community.

Not having had to chase down an ELT in a hangar before, I'll ask. If you find the hangar and its at night and no one is there, how do you figure out who the owner is? Have to find a after hours contact number for an airport manager first and hope he answers?

A better question is if you find the hangar and its at night and no one is there, why doesn't someone on the team or the IC have a contact number for the hangar owner? Seems like there should be some kind of interface between CAP and the local aviation community. Since you're more than likely operating in your local area, you should know who the local players are. We used to keep a master list of airport managers, hangar owners and marina owners/managers that we'd put to use frequently to get ELTs and EPIRBs silenced. It'd be updated regularly and the ICs had a copy. Do some outreach, stop maintaining cylinders of mediocrity, and work WITH the greater CA community.

Good points. I asked the question off the cuff a couple nights ago. I'll ask at our next meeting if this kind of list is being kept. Could be and I just didn't know it, not having need to use it yet. I have the local airport manager's cell on my phone, but hangars are different.

Walking by storefronts in the downtown area, its very common to see "In case of emergency call 555-5555" somewhere on the front door for police or others to call at 3am in an emergency. I never see that kind of info on hangar doors. Might be a good idea for airport managers to require it.

This doesn't just apply to hangars - my wing has detected ELTs in private homes, car trunks, boats, piles of garbage, and the busiest airport on earth, all private property or high-security / controlled access.

If the owner says "no", you note the address and leave. The IC notifies the FAA, and decides whether the team gets a find or not. It's not unheard of to visit the same place multiple nights to the same result.

Sometimes local PD can be the voice of reason, but not always, and absent probable cause they can't enter either.

Reading this has made me laugh and roll my eyes. We need to remember that even though you may be searching for something within the scope of a mission, there are still legalities that have to be abided by.

My concern here, from my LEO perspective, would be if a CAP Ground Team's isolation of said ELT to the hangar in question constitutes prima facie evidence that the hangar owner should now know that an ELT is transmitting from within said hangar? Following that, does that evidence rise to the level of PC? Most cops don't know jack about CAP or their training and capabilities. Nor do most judges, I'd venture to guess. I wouldn't sign an affidavit for a search warrant based on a CAP GT's find, honestly, and I'm an active member of the program. What I would do, if approached in my LE capacity by a CAP GT, is talk to the owner and make them aware of the federal laws/regulations involving false distress signals and try to convince them to save themselves the headache of dealing with the FCC and the fines. Were I Joe Citizen, I would be more likely to open my doors to a uniformed, identified Law Enforcement Officer than I would be to a member of an organization I may only be peripherally aware of.

I'm also curious as to whether these rules regarding false ELT signals fall under the realm of FCC Regulations (federal civil law), US Code (federal criminal law), or a state statute or regulation. That will effect who has jurisdiction both on a law enforcement agency level and which court you would apply to for a warrant as well as if a warrant is actually called for. If it is a regulation, than the FCC issuing a civil fine requires much less a burden of proof than obtaining a search or arrest warrant for a criminal act. Please enlighten me, because I really don't know.