Grand PBUH:GameSprocket: Anyone else not trust off-screen deaths on this show? They seem to have very little problem showing the characters getting killed in all kinds of violent ways, why suddenly so shy?

I did enjoy the half hour of watching them rearrange vehicles. It looked the the prison had valet parking.

I"d venture a guess that censors probably didn't want a kid to shoot a "real" human. Zombies ok, real humans not ok. Kinda like when you see kids shows with alot of violence. Samurai Jack, Clone Wars... those have alot of violence if you think about it, but the only ones getting dismembered, beheaded, and being destroyed in brutal ways are robots or anything else that is not technically alive.

That being said, but did anyone else think Carl was ready to off that baby when it didn't start breathing right away? You could see on his face he was somewhat relieved till he realized he had to deal with Lori.

I don't know. They would likely have just shown his face and a splatter of blood or something. He also booked out of there like "Yep, I killed her. Lets go before a completely different walker with her uterus hanging out comes over here and eats us."

someonelse:born_yesterday: And I'm pretty sure Michonne signed her own death warrant by subtly telling the governor that she knows he killed the guardsmen.

I can't believe she did that. Why did she do that? So dumb. Plus, she evidently DIDN'T tell Andrea this same vital information when they were deciding whether or not to leave. Did she think giving Andrea the stink-eye would somehow impart "I saw evidence that the Gov killed the military guys" telepathically?

That killing the guardsmen scene from last week made no sense to me.

Ok he did it to show that he's a badguy for the audience at home, but why would he not want to keep these men at his town and further strengthen his community? Adding an extra few men to the walls couldn't hurt, right? Or is it just more like he views them as a threat to his authoritah and thus offs em? And why would all his little hatchet men just agree that it was a good idea?

Father_Jack:That killing the guardsmen scene from last week made no sense to me.

I imagine he felt his authority would be threatened by bringing them in. In reality, military leadership > random guy who calls himself "governor." I suppose in his mind, his authority is the most important thing to protect.

Father_Jack:Or is it just more like he views them as a threat to his authoritah and thus offs em?

That would be the idea, yes. The Governor is a megalomaniac, power freak. To keep the people in Woodbury just afraid enough to not question his rule, as they likely would had they a sense of sustainability and stability, he needs to present the image of the outside world as a very dangerous, cutthroat, lethal place. If a platoon of trained military men can't hack it outside Woodbury, what does it say about the civilians huddled inside the fortified town square? Practicality and reason don't factor into it, it's a Hobbesian autocracy ruled by fear -- not of the Governor (yet), but of the outside world.

And, to the Governor, a group of actual military does represent a very palpable threat to him, by being a group of men trained into hierarchical, organized thinking and as a "defender" class of sorts. The Governor wasted no time offing Welles, probably because he was an officer -- not only a trained guardsman, but also someone trained to take on and handle the role of leadership within the military. Sure, there are guardsmen in Woodbury -- the Governor said as much himself -- but to this point they're presumably outnumbered and cowed for that, if not already having become fully loyal to him; the presence of other, new military would challenge that and have the potential for triggering a power struggle the Governor has no intention of allowing occur.

Sure, bringing in the guardsmen was the ethical play. We're not talking ethics.

RoxtarRyan:FarkerSnow: So, why did Lori die immediately from a c-section? That shouldn't have killed her.

It looked like she was already suffering from some kind of internal bleeding. Add on the now external bleeding, supported by people who have no medical training aside from the occasional birthing of a cow, and well... there ya go.

Lori had already had a caeserean section due to complications with Carl. She started bleeding heavily with her first few contractions. She said "I know what that means", since she probably had the same thing happen with Carl. I'm guessing her uterus ruptured, causing massive internal bleeding and leaving an immediate c-section as the only option to get the baby out alive.

Uterine rupture is a potentially catastrophic event during childbirth by which the integrity of the myometrial wall is breached. In an incomplete rupture the peritoneum is still intact. With a complete rupture the contents of the uterus may spill into the peritoneal cavity or the broad ligament. A uterine rupture is a life-threatening event for mother and baby.

A uterine rupture typically occurs during early labor, but may already develop during late pregnancy.

A uterine scar from a previous cesarean section is the most common risk factor. (In one review, 52% had previous cesarean scars.)

Symptoms: Abdominal pain and tenderness. The pain may not be severe; it may occur suddenly at the peak of a contraction. The woman may describe a feeling that something "gave way" or "ripped."

BizarreMan:For having such an online reputation as a Bad-ass, Michone has been pretty disappointing so far. The last few episodes it's been all about her sitting and brooding, looking pissed and angry.

The show is apparently skipping a ton of the prison story arc from the comic. It seems like all of the Michone character bits from the comic aren't making it into the show. So all we're stuck with is "brooding badass who trusts nobody".

On IMDB, it shows Lori and Carol both in every episode for the rest of the season, so I don't think either one is gone. Carol probably escaped to safety, Lori probably ends up zombified after carl failed with his attempt at putting her down

PTP_Professor:On IMDB, it shows Lori and Carol both in every episode for the rest of the season, so I don't think either one is gone. Carol probably escaped to safety, Lori probably ends up zombified after carl failed with his attempt at putting her down

After the shenanigans in prior seasons with people nitpicking over EVERY..SINGLE...F*CKING...THING they can find to ruin things for normal viewers, I'm pretty sure the powers-that-be are screwing with you.

Carol is like that one prisoner Rick tossed out. Still alive runing through the prison. T-Dogg dying sucked I like him for the sake of not being a damn drama queen, he was more the strong silent type and now he probably said more this season then all the others combined. If Carl makes it to his 20s he will probably be worse than Shane. I think my biggest problem with this season is that the prison must be the worst designed prison in the country. I never knew they would have their own maze.

Yeah, I pretty much knew T-Dog was dead the second they introduced the black prisoner and gave him a personality. It's the rule of non-straight to DVD zombie movies not starring rappers. No more than one black character. If there are more than 1, it has to be a male and a female, so they can argue until they have sex.

NeoCortex42:BizarreMan: For having such an online reputation as a Bad-ass, Michone has been pretty disappointing so far. The last few episodes it's been all about her sitting and brooding, looking pissed and angry.

The show is apparently skipping a ton of the prison story arc from the comic. It seems like all of the Michone character bits from the comic aren't making it into the show. So all we're stuck with is "brooding badass who trusts nobody".

People complained about helpless Carl last year incessantly, and I said 'Just Wait'.

The same holds true for Michonne. The reason that she's subdued is because she doesn't have her katana. That's likely to change soon. I'm quite confident that we'll see full-on Michonne badassery.

Great show from a great series. FWIW, I think Lori is still alive. I dont trust Carl to have killed her off or maybe he "missed" etc. Ive never read the comics so Im enjoying the storyline so far. Cant wait for next week....

They can't kill of Daryl, when the world ends only hardcore rednecks will survive!I too was rooting for the Zombie baby overlord, least she's dead and gone, maybe less drama with the Queen B*%&^ being ganked.

Though I can't wait for Michone to get her friggen sword back! *slice* *lop*lop*Lop*

when do they realize that they are not only sitting on a bunch of back up generators but a god forsaken amount of diesel fuel?

realityVSperception:Lori had already had a caeserean section due to complications with Carl. She started bleeding heavily with her first few contractions. She said "I know what that means", since she probably had the same thing happen with Carl.

Which makes her decision to carry the pregnancy to term even more spectacularly foolish. Even if she had survived, how were they planning to immunize the baby so it doesn't die of measles or some other diseases that everyone else was immunized against before society collapsed?

Why Would I Read the Article:Since the videogum guy stopped doing his writeups of this show, there's simply no reason to watch it anymore. The first two seasons were the most boring and infuratingly awful television in the history of the medium. You fooled me twice, shame on me. But there won't be a third time.

Ok, we get it, you and others like you just aren't fans of the zombie genre, just shut up already.

Carol escaped as a result of T-Dog's sacrifice. She will end up coming across Lori and saving her life. There's a reason they showed Carol practicing on dead bodies. There's a reason T-Dog talked about how his death was going to be worth something. Carl didn't shoot Lori, he just fired a shot in frustration, anger, sadness, whatever.

We're not done with Lori yet. I'm ok with that, because I'm very much looking forward to the original plan for her character.

inelukii:Carol escaped as a result of T-Dog's sacrifice. She will end up coming across Lori and saving her life. There's a reason they showed Carol practicing on dead bodies. There's a reason T-Dog talked about how his death was going to be worth something. Carl didn't shoot Lori, he just fired a shot in frustration, anger, sadness, whatever.

We're not done with Lori yet. I'm ok with that, because I'm very much looking forward to the original plan for her character.

That would be a little far-fetched, but based on what we've seen so far, it's entirely plausible.

Father_Jack:someonelse: born_yesterday: And I'm pretty sure Michonne signed her own death warrant by subtly telling the governor that she knows he killed the guardsmen.

I can't believe she did that. Why did she do that? So dumb. Plus, she evidently DIDN'T tell Andrea this same vital information when they were deciding whether or not to leave. Did she think giving Andrea the stink-eye would somehow impart "I saw evidence that the Gov killed the military guys" telepathically?

That killing the guardsmen scene from last week made no sense to me.

Ok he did it to show that he's a badguy for the audience at home, but why would he not want to keep these men at his town and further strengthen his community? Adding an extra few men to the walls couldn't hurt, right? Or is it just more like he views them as a threat to his authoritah and thus offs em? And why would all his little hatchet men just agree that it was a good idea?

When he beat the one guardsmen to death, there was pure hatred on his face. It wasn't just about supplies. He has also spoken several times about the guardsmen being "heroes, who would never desert their posts".

I think he was in a settlement once, National Guardsmen bolted, lost his daughter/friends/etc. and now he straight up hates them.

Don't get why so many hate on Lori. It's a zombie apocolypse!! As far as she knew her man was dead, so she got with the guy she thought could protect her and her son. What the hell else should she have done?

PTP_Professor:On IMDB, it shows Lori and Carol both in every episode for the rest of the season, so I don't think either one is gone. Carol probably escaped to safety, Lori probably ends up zombified after carl failed with his attempt at putting her down

I think they are going to do flashbacks over the winter so we can see what happened to cause Carl and Rick to hate her so much.

doctor wu:Don't get why so many hate on Lori. It's a zombie apocolypse!! As far as she knew her man was dead, so she got with the guy she thought could protect her and her son. What the hell else should she have done?

Not play Rick and Shane against each other. She tried to get Rick to kill Shane, then biatched when Rick killed Shane.

BizarreMan:For having such an online reputation as a Bad-ass, Michone has been pretty disappointing so far. The last few episodes it's been all about her sitting and brooding, looking pissed and angry.

It does seem strange. This was the character people were so excited to see. And the writers chose to take away the few things that made her interesting (sword and zombie-slaves) and stuck her in this "Wattership Down" scenario.

kumanoki:inelukii: Carol escaped as a result of T-Dog's sacrifice. She will end up coming across Lori and saving her life. There's a reason they showed Carol practicing on dead bodies. There's a reason T-Dog talked about how his death was going to be worth something. Carl didn't shoot Lori, he just fired a shot in frustration, anger, sadness, whatever.

We're not done with Lori yet. I'm ok with that, because I'm very much looking forward to the original plan for her character.

That would be a little far-fetched, but based on what we've seen so far, it's entirely plausible.

I was thinking along those lines too. If you watch the promo for the next show, everyone is trying to talk Rick from going in somewhere...My thoughts are Carl didn't shoot her, confesses to not doing it, and Rick wants to go in after her. He does, and finds that Carol saved Lori somehow, but with hemorrhaging so much blood, I guess the idea will be she goes into a coma, and that's where Woodbury's nurse and running into Andrea and Michonne come in to play.

that bosnian sniper:Father_Jack: Or is it just more like he views them as a threat to his authoritah and thus offs em?

That would be the idea, yes. The Governor is a megalomaniac, power freak. To keep the people in Woodbury just afraid enough to not question his rule, as they likely would had they a sense of sustainability and stability, he needs to present the image of the outside world as a very dangerous, cutthroat, lethal place. If a platoon of trained military men can't hack it outside Woodbury, what does it say about the civilians huddled inside the fortified town square? Practicality and reason don't factor into it, it's a Hobbesian autocracy ruled by fear -- not of the Governor (yet), but of the outside world.

And, to the Governor, a group of actual military does represent a very palpable threat to him, by being a group of men trained into hierarchical, organized thinking and as a "defender" class of sorts. The Governor wasted no time offing Welles, probably because he was an officer -- not only a trained guardsman, but also someone trained to take on and handle the role of leadership within the military. Sure, there are guardsmen in Woodbury -- the Governor said as much himself -- but to this point they're presumably outnumbered and cowed for that, if not already having become fully loyal to him; the presence of other, new military would challenge that and have the potential for triggering a power struggle the Governor has no intention of allowing occur.

Sure, bringing in the guardsmen was the ethical play. We're not talking ethics.

While I agree that the Governor killing the guardsmen is based on his ability to maintain control (and free weapons...YAY!), it seems sort of scary that he puts that much trust in his minions that they wouldn't spill the beans, even accidentally. Taking out a couple of nearly dead helicopters pilots is one thing...but a group of healthy men at ease is another.

If there are other guardsmen floating around Woodbury, would they also not want to muck around on the equipment to look for any remnant ephemera of other soldiers. Maybe he's just made that part up about guardsmen in Woodbury...but SURELY someone other than Michonne would have to wander over by the unguarded vehicles and noticed the messy job of cleanup on the things, even if it's just kids playing around on those things.