which seem to rely on chelation to dissolve the metal and mineral-based “fortifications” that the pathogens (yeasts?) are hiding under, combined with pathogen (yeast)-killing substances and binders to mop up liberated toxic metals. It all makes sense to me, except for the fact that nobody on that thread seems to have had positive results—it seems to me that people on that thread have liberated pathogens, metals or whatnot, but somehow fell short of achieving a positive result for some reason (some have had herx or other strong reactions). So I remain gun-shy for the moment.

which seem to rely on chelation to dissolve the metal and mineral-based “fortifications” that the pathogens (yeasts?) are hiding under, combined with pathogen (yeast)-killing substances and binders to mop up liberated toxic metals. It all makes sense to me, except for the fact that nobody on that thread seems to have had positive results—it seems to me that people on that thread have liberated pathogens, metals or whatnot, but somehow fell short of achieving a positive result for some reason (some have had herx or other strong reactions). So I remain gun-shy for the moment.

Click to expand...

Thanks Sillicon......it makes lot of sense to me too. My experiences tinkering with the GI issues tells me that this biofilm idea is very likely right on. I have Leaky Gut.....so I get an extra whammy when I mess with the bugs/toxins hiding there, but I also get good results in some ways. I haven't addressed the biofilm issue directly yet......I too am kinda gun shy and gathering info before taking a leap. Thanks for the link.....

My daughter is taking oxymatrine now for two months, very slowly building up to four capsules of Equilibrant. I am not sure at this point if it is doing anything. She has some intestinal herxing since starting this compound. Her high cox b3,b4, and b5 have stayed elevated at >1:640 at ARUP. Dr. Chia says that they will not drop for some time. I will update this report when I have more of an idea about this oxymatrine.

Generally thats 1/2 tab to start (but in my case, because of the high avs for so many years...i'm going to start at 1/4 tab and slowly increase to 1 tab daily over a three month period)

If i do ok...i can then, at the same time, begin to reduce acyclovir dosage. I'm looking forward to that! (and maybe relief from chronic shingles...if it works!)

I'm hoping i can tolerate it because of stomach issues (as well as the possibility of an initial incease in vzv probs and pain)...but thats one of the reasons that Chia also uses "E" now, rather than Oxymatrine (from China) as much (which can be very hard on the stomach)..."E" is better tolerated by more people.

Please let us know how you are doing as time progresses! (Its so important to hear patients stories when taking this, as the results can be very different, imo.)

In the middle of sex I got a sudden onset, overwhelming headache. Throbbing pain worse than I've ever experienced. The headache was so bad I could barely move. The next morning it STILL hurt, so I went to the ER to rule out a brain aneurysm.

At the E.R., had a spinal tap and CT scan, everything was clean. No explanation of the headache, which is still here now (although it's better).

I cannot relate this to the equilibrant though - since this happened to me once before I started it (about a week ago), although it wasn't as severe. I started astragalus about 2 weeks ago, along with mushroom extracts. Either of these could possibly be the cause, but somehow I doubt it.

The ER doc told me to 'stop all the herbals'. I'm going to continue with equilibrant, but reduce some of my other supplements (Reishi, Ashwagandha, Green Tea, Curcumin).

I'm also slowing on the equilibrant (1 cap for a week to see how I adjust). Sometimes I feel like I go up and down so often with this disease, that I don't even remember what my "baseline" feels like.

Either way it will be a while before I can report how well equilibrant works for me. I'll try not to derail this thread as my own personal journal

Jackie - Good luck with equilibrant. Have you been tested for titers of viruses? The only tests I've had in a long time are EBV and CMV "viral load" tests. These came back negative (not sure what the implications of this are).

Perhaps I should find a good CFS doc in Chicago who can do some more thorough testing.

Thanks Timaca. I had experienced something similar about a week ago, before I had started oxymatrine so I can't attribute it to that. But, I am going to ramp up slowly (1 tab a day for now) and hopefully that wil avoid any headaches!

In the middle of sex I got a sudden onset, overwhelming headache. Throbbing pain worse than I've ever experienced. The headache was so bad I could barely move. The next morning it STILL hurt, so I went to the ER to rule out a brain aneurysm.

At the E.R., had a spinal tap and CT scan, everything was clean. No explanation of the headache, which is still here now (although it's better).

Perhaps I should find a good CFS doc in Chicago who can do some more thorough testing.

Click to expand...

I have had the same thing happen to me in the past during sex, (un)fortunately I am no longer having sex with my GF since she moved out at the beginning of the year. I just quit the sex act and just went to bed, do not recall the headache carrying on like what was the experience when I was working so hard. Never had a CT scan or spinal tap done, no thanks to the spinal tap unless done by a good Dr and knows what to look for.

I had similar headaches under similar circumstances about 5 years ago. After a few of these over a period of months, I had one very severe one, started vomiting, and couldn't bear any light. A CT scan showed I had had a subarachnoid haemorrhage, which thankfully I survived.

It's possible that this was linked to inflammation of the blood vessels in the brain (which may be the case in ME), and also to the guaifenisen I was taking at the time, which is a blood thinner.

This needs to be taken seriously, and it's a good idea to look at what supplements you're taking. Hope you're OK now.

I had similar headaches under similar circumstances about 5 years ago. After a few of these over a period of months, I had one very severe one, started vomiting, and couldn't bear any light. A CT scan showed I had had a subarachnoid haemorrhage, which thankfully I survived.

It's possible that this was linked to inflammation of the blood vessels in the brain (which may be the case in ME), and also to the guaifenisen I was taking at the time, which is a blood thinner.

This needs to be taken seriously, and it's a good idea to look at what supplements you're taking. Hope you're OK now.

Jenny

Click to expand...

Thanks Jenny.. I'm glad you're okay after all that. I did take it seriously - went to the ER and had a spinal tap done. Luckily everything appears to be okay.

I'm only taking 3 supplements now, equilibrant, ashwagandha, and occasionally curcumin. It's weird but I can still "feel" the headache - it's not painful but the effects are lingering if that makes any sense.

Back on topic...

Today is day 5 of taking equilibrant. I lied about taking 1 pill a day for a week, I took 3 both yesterday and Sunday.

Starting last Friday, I've taken 3, 1, 3, and 3 pills each day. I will continue with 3 unless things get really bad.

Saturday and Sunday I felt AWFUL, but this might have been due to the headache/ER trip described before. Yesterday I was very fatigued as well, although somehow I made it through the work day running on steam.

A lot of times I feel like I'm going to pass out, but I never do.

Today, so far, is the best day on equilibrant. Let's hope it continues. Cheers

Regarding my last post, that day turned out to be very poor after all.

I seem to feel worse after taking the equlibrant. However, the longer I go without taking it, the better I feel.

I skipped a dose last night, and felt better this morning that I have in a long time. Generally, I have been feeling well in the morning, until my first dose. Afterwards, my symptoms are exacerbated.

I may have been increasing the dosage too fast, I will be slowing down to 2 pills a day instead of 3. I underestimated the power of this medication.

I went to the gym to do light weights yesterday, and during lifting I felt the same headache that brought me to the ER. I left the gym immediately after getting those symptoms again... I can't afford to experience that again.

Binky~ It took me around 16-17 weeks before I felt better. So you may want to hang in there longer than 3 months.....
Good luck.
Best, Timaca

Click to expand...

I would like advice on this supplement... i started taking it a while back... with like half pills a day... and by day five I HAD to stop.... i flared soooo bad with oxymatrine.... i always wondered if i had stayed on it if i would have had a large improvement... but it was just too much.....

I'm about 3 weeks in now. I'm still not exactly sure what effect equilibrant is having on me. Initially, I would feel worse after almost every dose, but that has lessened.

I've been on the full dose (6 tabs) for 3 days now. I take 2 pills on an empty stomach about 15 minutes before breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

It makes me feel really stressed out - I think this may be the 'red alert' feeling that others (Timaca?) have described.

I'm actually functioning somewhat okay at work, although I haven't been as busy lately. The worst part is functioning after lunch during the afternoon - I'm very out of it at that point.

I also restarted taking high dose curcumin (LEFs super bio, 2x) before bed each night. Initially after restarting, this gave me wonderful results - my anxiety disappeared, and my sleep was much improved. I seem to develop a tolerance after 3-4 days though. This is consistent with my prior use of curcumin.

I am still taking it, I think it the nf-kappa B inhibition is very positive when it comes to brain inflammation, and it is likely that 'herxing' may increase this inflammation. My only fear is that since curcumin affects so many different things, that I may be interfering with the equilibrant treatment, but I doubt that is happening.

I also am taking magnseium malate, vitamin D, cod liver oil, and drink copious amounts of peppermint tea since aqueous extracts have shown anti-retroviral activity. I've also ordered some lemon balm for the same purpose.

Overall, I am feeling better than the first few weeks of the protocol - i actually like the higher dose better so far,

hi
anyone know anything about the purity/quality of beVigour's Proteliv.. aka oxymatrine.?
Don't like the calcium in the equilibrant cos of excitotoxicity issues.
Any one using other sources of oxymatrine.?