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Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

Royal Guards are sure still within range for any human.

Meruem not. And it's quite clear, at least to me, why it's so dangerous. He's a fast learner. Everything on him is made to quickly adapt and improve. And that's probably the worst thing you can face. The longer the fight, the lesser the chances.
Add to that the ability of reading the enemy's feelings and thoughts and you're completely doom because you can't use tricks.

The King is almost a God, and it was stated as such to see the huge gap and how much power it takes to bring him down. The president of the Hunter Association, god's sake! A person that should be able to match the Genei Ryodan with no many issues in the road.

The Sky is pouring
The wind is blowing
The sea looks red,
a surging sea of flames
looks like the entrance to hell
'Perfect', the captain said.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

Originally Posted by Uriel

Royal Guards are sure still within range for any human.

Meruem not. And it's quite clear, at least to me, why it's so dangerous. He's a fast learner. Everything on him is made to quickly adapt and improve. And that's probably the worst thing you can face. The longer the fight, the lesser the chances.
Add to that the ability of reading the enemy's feelings and thoughts and you're completely doom because you can't use tricks.

The King is almost a God, and it was stated as such to see the huge gap and how much power it takes to bring him down. The president of the Hunter Association, god's sake! A person that should be able to match the Genei Ryodan with no many issues in the road.

Also the King is basically only few weeks old, if he had a few years to learn how to use his powers to the fullest he would be in my opinion unstoppable.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

The King and Royals seem to have greatly accelerated learning. If it takes the most talented human 20 years to perfect their aura abilities, it might take them only 2 months. However I don't think the extra 19 years and 10 months they get means they can go beyond what their natural peak is. Pitou estimated it'll take an hour to heal Komugi, and he said with more experience he got it down to about 50 minutes. But I don't think this means that after 10 years he can do the same in 5 minutes. I know Meryem actually said that he's still practicing his powers when he used the Circle, but you've to remember he's using that power to do things nobody has ever done before (detect footprints, read emotions, etc), and at any rate he seem to have perfect it in 3 tries.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

The king would win imo. He is incredably fast and durable. If he shows no mercy from the begining he would win, he is a strategist, and all, and all the president of the hunters could do was delay him, remember that his strongest move could do minor damage. just the bomb was able to do some real damage, and as for the result of the battle, it would be an obvious victory for the king.
If they all attacked at the same time maybe, but otherwise not.
So I say, King wins.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

IMO the best chance ryodan has based on what we have seen is by far shizuku. Her combat ability is perhaps lower than most of the ryodan but if by some minute miracle they actually put a scratch on the king there is a chance for them to actually suck him dry of blood. That would be fairly useful at least against the first form of the king. The second is trickier since the king has pufu's ability though.

Anyways, I think that at large the ryodan would be largely incapable of harming the king. Netero's based attack was able to make a reasonably large hole into the ground and even hundreds of thousands of those hits made the king numb. His most insane attack caused only superficial damage. On top of that the king took a nuke at point blank and survived.... Nothing the ryodan has shown has but a fraction of the power a nuke has.... I don't see a way for the ryodan to get past the kings defense basically.

Er, knowing the type of aura user you are doesn't tell you WHAT abilities you will use. Neon, Pakunoda, Kurapika, Kuroro, and Pitou are all Special Type users, and it tells you nothing about what kind of ability they use in combat. Two of them basically have no ability geared to combat at all. The Special Type characters tend to feature an even wider array of possible attacks, so Zeno literally have no idea what kind of ability Kuroro may have learned. That's not to say he will lose, but he simply has no idea if Kuroro has some kind of "Super Saiyan when near death" ability or not, for example, so he's not going to say he can't possibly lose in a fight to the death.

IMO the best chance ryodan has based on what we have seen is by far shizuku. Her combat ability is perhaps lower than most of the ryodan but if by some minute miracle they actually put a scratch on the king there is a chance for them to actually suck him dry of blood. That would be fairly useful at least against the first form of the king. The second is trickier since the king has pufu's ability though.

Anyways, I think that at large the ryodan would be largely incapable of harming the king. Netero's based attack was able to make a reasonably large hole into the ground and even hundreds of thousands of those hits made the king numb. His most insane attack caused only superficial damage. On top of that the king took a nuke at point blank and survived.... Nothing the ryodan has shown has but a fraction of the power a nuke has.... I don't see a way for the ryodan to get past the kings defense basically.

The problem with using Shizuku is that the moment Meryem sees what she's doing he'd either kill her or at least incapaciate her. If both of these actions are somehow impossible, he's also clearly faster than any human being and can easily retreat to somewhere far enough away to avoid getting his blood sucked.

Even Pitou needed 0.1s to prepare his aura ability, which was enough time for Netero to hit him out of the preparation time. Meryem's basic fighting strat seems to be just removing the threat while they're preparing their attack, and as long as he can incapaciate/kill you before you're done preparing your move, it doesn't even matter how powerful your move is because you'll never get that move off.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

So you want to tell me that you cant know what kind of ability a special type Nen User has.
And how is it easier to know what kind of ability any other Nen User has??? I guess you should read Hunter X Hunter again completely.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

Originally Posted by BurnSchulz

So you want to tell me that you cant know what kind of ability a special type Nen User has.
And how is it easier to know what kind of ability any other Nen User has??? I guess you should read Hunter X Hunter again completely.

Besides we already know Kuroros ability.

Um, you know Kuroro has a book that contains the abilities he's stolen from other people, but you have no idea what ability he's managed to steal so far. It's heavily implied that he may have some abilities more suitable for killing people inside his book compared to the abilities he used during the battle, since he was only trying to stall time.

Silva observed during the battle that since he doesn't know the extent of Kuroro's ability, there's a risk involved in defeating him. You have to recognize that Killua and his family are extremely risk adverse. Killua was taught by Irumi that don't fight any fight where you can't be sure you'll win. It's pretty clear this philosophy is how the rest of the family fights too. Biscuit said that Killua will always estimate his enemy at their peak, and no doubt that's how the rest of his family operates too. Could Kuroro at his peak somehow kill Silva or Zeno? Of course he can. Doesn't mean he can do it, but it's certainly possible. One can say this behavior is pretty cowardly/defeatist, but then that's why Silva and Zeno don't call themselves Hunters. Their goal in life is to make a living and kill people without being killed.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

At least i finally got what you mean. You meant you dont know wich kind of ability he woul use out of his Book. (Wich is his original ability)
But that would be stil just like any other Nen Fight, you dont know what kind of ability the other one has.
And like Moraou once said, the first step to win the fight ist to observe what kind of ability the other one has.

But i guess in Kulluahs Case they just wanted to protect him with Irumis Needle, and sort of controll him too.
It was most probably hi Mother wo told Irumi to do that. Because she loves Killuah (as sick as it sounds in his Family).

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

They only take risk if there is money involved. It seems to me it's pretty clear Kuroro is asking who would win if they are going to fight to the death just for the sake of fighting to the death, and I think when Zeno says, "I can't say", that really just means "Not going to take the risk if there is no money involved". Of course he doesn't mind fighting him to the death if there is motive. After all, that's why he took the job in the first place. Zeno and Silva accepted wiping out the entire Spiders, not just Kuroro, and I doubt this is because they believe they're stronger than the entire Spiders combined, so clearly they're willing to go pretty far for money. But as far as personal motivations go, they clearly have no desire to take any chances without being paid.

I brought this up because most people tend to think Kuroro is comparable to Zeno just because Zeno said he can't say who would win in a battle to the death. I'm saying that Zeno will pretty much say that to just about anyone of reasonable ability because he's not the guy who gets into a battle of death without being paid, or cornered. When Zeno was being confronted by the cheetah, he also said he really doesn't want to kill anyone not related to work. Does anyone really believe the cheetah poses a threat to Zeno? But even there he's not willing to get into a fight.

You're right that you're not supposed to be able to know what abilities your enemies have, but most of the fights in the recent arc involve people who are Hunters. It's pretty clear that Hunters, as a group of people, prepare to fight for the sake of fighting, and they don't really care about their safety. Zeno and Silva are not Hunters. They are assassins and all they want to do is to live while doing their jobs. Note that Zeno didn't stick around to fight any of the Royals let alone Meryem. Clearly that's a job you can't possibly pay him enough to do.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

Only natural that noone would fight to the death when it isnt even worthy.

And the only one prepared to fight for the sake of fighting was netero, all the other hunters had at least a very important mission to accomplish. Gon and Killuah for personal reasons.
And in the end netero had the mission to kill the king at any cost.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

A few people brought up the Royals vs Spiders. Again you'd have to define the situation. First, the Spiders would have to be viewed as a threat, otherwise Pitou or Yupi might decide to just toy with them and actually end up losing because they wasted too much time to let one of the member fulfill some really powerful attacks that have a tough condition to fulfill. Also, the Royal Guards cannot be currently patrolling a fixed area as ordered by Meryem, because the Royals are bound by these orders and that'd put them at a huge, possibly fatal, disadvantage.

If all the Royals particpiate at the same time, Pitou appears to be most capable in figuring out who is the deadliest enemy via pure instinct. After all, he's the only one who realized that Gon is the only person who possessed the potential to defeat Meryem. Therefore Pitou would almost certainly attack Kuroro first. It's hard to imagine Kuroro having better physical ability compared to Kite, so he'd be at least maimed in the first blow and the rest of the Spiders cannot fight calmly if their leader is hurt. Only Franklin and Kuroro have shown the ability to unite the Spiders in the face of adversity, so any damage (and possibly death) to him you'd probably see the Spiders revert to 1 on 1 or just charge head on, and they'd easily be defeated by the Royals at this point.

Now if it's just one Royal, I think here's how it'd play out...

Versus Pitou - Pitou seems to be the most capable in pinpointing threats amongst Royals, so he should be able to figure out the kill order would be Kuroro -> Franklin -> Support -> Others. Given that he is clearly much, much faster than any Spider and he can heal himself, even if he somehow took damage, there's nothing stopping him from simply retreating to heal himself back up and then continue fighting. He can also control a ton of puppets to confuse/separate the Spiders. Given his unique mix of abilities, I don't think it'd even be possible for the Spiders to inflict any permanent damage on him. I think this will just turn into a steamroll after Pitou took out Kuroro and Franklin, as the Spiders have shown to be surprisingly fragmented without the presence of their leader.

Versus Pufu - If they can fight Pufu in an enclosed space, then the Spiders will definitely win. However none of the members in the Spiders have an ability similar to that of Morel's, so we'll assume Pufu has a large open area to work with. Since none of the Spiders can fly, the real Pufu can hide safely in midair. While some of the Spiders have anti-air attacks, the attacks Spiders possess do not seem to cover enough of an area to ensure they can hit the real Pufu. They might get lucky, but we're talking about hitting one of thousands of mini Pufus and just getting lucky that they happen to hit the real one. I guess they can save one of their big attacks and try to hit a cluster of Pufus, but I doubt Pufu will just stand there while a major attack is coming. He'll either get out of the way ahead of time, or he'll be forced to gather all his clones and to defend (even though he's by far the weakest physically of Royals, I doubt any Spider have an attack that can kill him outright while he's at full strength).

Now, Pufu's appears to be the only Royal incapble of one-hit kills (if he could've killed Morel in one hit he wouldn't need to just grab his weapon), so this fight might go on for pretty long. Pufu's clones are imprevious to physical attack (they just break apart and reform), but perhaps a weapon (Nobunaga, Feitan) or a special ability can hurt them (Feitan seems to have a couple of elemental attacks). The most likely scenario would be the Spiders destroyed enough clones to force Pufu to retreat and probably losing some of their weaker members. The Spiders may be able to use one of their more powerful member as bait to get the real Pufu to attack and then try to kill him while sacrificing that guy, though I don't think Pufu will expose his real self at danger with so many enemies around.

Versus Yupi - Whoever attacks Yupi head on is definitely dead, and I think even with Kuroro leading, some of the Spiders will still charge to their doom. Yupi is still most likely faster than any Spider member (Killua used Meleron's ability to escape, so he has to be faster than Killua), but not by a significant margin. Yupi is clearly easily confused by tactics so the Spiders should be able to keep their important members protected (Kuroro for the most part). Again physical attacks is probably not going to do anything to Yupi, since he is clearly the Royal with the highest physical attributes. However he cannot heal himself, so weapons and elemental attacks can do lasting damage to him. He's also the only Royal that'd be particularly vulnerable to Shizuku's method of attack (Pitou can outrange/heal, Pufu's real body is clearly well protected), though I don't see how the Spiders can protect Shizuku when Yupi charges toward her after seeing what she's attempting to do. Perhaps some combination of Kuroro's 'teleport ally' ability plus Shizuku can wear him down. The Spiders can definitely do signifcant damage to Yupi, but it's not clear if they can do enough to bring him down.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

You said:
" It's pretty clear that Hunters, as a group of people, prepare to fight for the sake of fighting, and they don't really care about their safety."

I said:
"All the other hunters had at least a very important mission to accomplish. Gon and Killuah for personal reasons."

Hunters have to do missions they got from the committee you know?
And then you bring the Spiders?

First: The Spiders arent Hunters!
And secondly: The also had their reasons to fight, it was their homeland wich was taken by the ants wich went out of NGL after the Queen died. And they fight to save their homeland.

Its true that some people (Hunter or not) enjoy fighting enemies. (Netero enjoyed it really having an enemy stronger than himself thats for sure). But youre wrong that some people there fight just for the sake of fighting.
Everyone has their own reasons.

Re: Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

We should make a subsection for this kind of thread. It would definetly belong to the Battledome thread in HxH case; Celestial Tower. I'm afraid to say it but the discussions here are already done! There is no point in repeating the same arguments over and over again. To summarize the thread, the Ryodan don't stand a chance, not even in the slightest against Meruem, he would murder them in any constellation. And grow even further due to the gained experiences.