Controversy: Is the SLS AMG faster than the 458 Italia stock for stock?

A debate has been raging on the BenzBoost forums and we decided it was finally time to put together information on these two cars to help sort out the video below. There are three races and the SLS gets the jump in the first two. In the first race the SLS is lined up ahead and gets on the gas first pulling. In the second video a mix-up in the honks has the SLS jump again leading the 458 to have to run it down which it can not. The third race is the cleanest with the SLS still pulling away and rather quickly.

Now, this has led to people from each side yelling and screaming at each other. Here is what we know, the SLS dyno's more on a dynojet stock. There are variables involved of course but based on the graphs we have thus far the 458 baselines around 450 wheel and the SLS around 488 wheel. Advantage, SLS.

This may help explain why the 458 Italia gets a better elapsed time in the 1/4 mile versus the SLS stock for stock. It's rear engine launch is also a large factor helping it get off the line better. Going back to Road and Track, the numbers are 11.0@128.5 versus 11.6@124.3 for the Italia and SLS respectively. 0-120 numbers favor the Italia by 1.2 second stock for stock, not a small difference.

Shift speed has been stated to favor the 458 with the SLS at 100ms to its 40ms. This disparity seems too large for the same technology from the same supplier, Getrag. As a matter of fact, they are basically the same unit. So is there really that large of a disparity here? We don't think so.

So how do you explain the outcome of the video? The only explanation is that the SLS is not stock. Logically, this is the only conclusion one can reach to explain how the SLS leaves the 458 the way it does. The weight is not as large of a factor once the cars are moving but even so we should see the 458 slowly pull not the SLS jumping out and destroying the 458. A stock SLS simply is not capable of it based on the data presented here. The stock claims are likely misleading and for SLS owners to boast. This is why we prefer track numbers for support but even without them a video can still be broken down. If we are incorrect, someone do this same race with two stock cars and prove us wrong. One thing is certain, both are fast cars and examples of some of the best vehicles available today.

Do you have his graph by any chance? Nobody has seen one that high yet and it would be awesome to have it.

Ask and you shall receive.... I finally got a chance to get in touch with my friend with the Ferrari 458 (he's out of state on business right now). He said his car dynos differently on different dynos (as expected) but more interestingly, he said the more he ran it, the better it got. The lowest it ever dynoed was 457 whp and the highest was 478 whp. Here is a crude cell phone picture I took while we were at the dyno shop a year ago.

Originally Posted by Sticky

It would likely be close but we would have to see it. Nobody is doing 280-325 rolls though.

Not if the speeds we're targeting are higher than one of the car's top speed.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Regarding the shif times, I don't know how there would be that large of a gap. I'll look into it more as it just feels off based on the technology. Sequentials have outshifted 100ms and even autos are hitting around that now I think.

As you can see, the 100 ms shift time comes directly from the Mercedes-AMG site. Regular auto trans (speaking about Mercedes ones) are not that fast yet. I think I read one time that they were close to 200 ms (I'll have to double-check to confirm though).

Moe
I respect you man I would never attack a respectful person like you even if you disagree with me . I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say and that is totally fine as long as it is civil.

Thanks guys, the feeling is mutual....

Originally Posted by Jacob502

Lets see if you can film anything for us. We cant race our SLS with our 458, as our SLS is modded with one of the best mods around. Please talk to your friends moe, and see if you can get another video for us all. all my buddies in the UAE/Qatar with Ferrari 458's are all tuned.loool

Unfortunately my friend's Ferrari now has headers + tune + exhaust work. But in the winter time, I usually organize a couple of track events, and I know at least 2 Ferrari 458 Italia's that are still stock. They would be happy to make a video but I do NOT know anyone with a stock SLS. If I can find someone in our next track event, I will definitely film it

Unfortunately my friend's Ferrari now has headers + tune + exhaust work. But in the winter time, I usually organize a couple of track events, and I know at least 2 Ferrari 458 Italia's that are still stock. They would be happy to make a video but I do NOT know anyone with a stock SLS. If I can find someone in our next track event, I will definitely film it

Did he get any runs with this headers, tune, and exhaust? He has the baseline so if it was me I would be itching to see the difference!

Ask and you shall receive.... I finally got a chance to get in touch with my friend with the Ferrari 458 (he's out of state on business right now). He said his car dynos differently on different dynos (as expected) but more interestingly, he said the more he ran it, the better it got. The lowest it ever dynoed was 457 whp and the highest was 478 whp. Here is a crude cell phone picture I took while we were at the dyno shop a year ago.

Not if the speeds we're targeting are higher than one of the car's top speed.

As you can see, the 100 ms shift time comes directly from the Mercedes-AMG site. Regular auto trans (speaking about Mercedes ones) are not that fast yet. I think I read one time that they were close to 200 ms (I'll have to double-check to confirm though).

Good stuff Mo, the highest I have ever seen is that 478 you just posted.

The trans is a Getrag unit that is the same as the Ferrari. It just doesn't make sense to me that Mercedes would slow it down. I think it is a difference in how shift times are being measure or something of that sort as the hardware is capable of the exact same things. Considering Mercedes made a point about mentioning their software was more aggressive than what was seen in the California (also the same unit) why would they slow it down to 100ms when the California shifts faster than 100ms? See the inconsistency? It just doesn't make sense. I really don't think there is as large of a gap if any as what you are saying.

This would be more believable if the results were closer, but it's not. That SLS literally slingshots ahead. The race should be much closer. This pill is too big for anyone with common knowledge of these cars to swallow. It is not stock and is prob running race gas. We need to see a real stock face off here.

Good stuff Mo, the highest I have ever seen is that 478 you just posted.

The trans is a Getrag unit that is the same as the Ferrari. It just doesn't make sense to me that Mercedes would slow it down. I think it is a difference in how shift times are being measure or something of that sort as the hardware is capable of the exact same things. Considering Mercedes made a point about mentioning their software was more aggressive than what was seen in the California (also the same unit) why would they slow it down to 100ms when the California shifts faster than 100ms? See the inconsistency? It just doesn't make sense. I really don't think there is as large of a gap if any as what you are saying.

I'm not so sure the tranny is identical to the one in the 458 Italia. Judging solely by my feel of the two cars, more specifically after driving the SLS intensely on Laguna Seca road course at the AMG driving academy, and after been driven in the Ferrari 458 Italia more than a few times, the shifting and responsiveness of the 458 transmission felt very decisively faster than that of the SLS. I understand that it could've been an illusion because the Ferrari is a smaller car and feels lighter, but my gut feeling tells me that the tranny in the 458 is way faster.

Does anyone know if any of the accelerometers are able to measure shift speed? That would be a fun test to try out...

Based on what? It seems to be the same Getrag model from everything I have read.

Originally Posted by Exeenom

the shifting and responsiveness of the 458 transmission felt very decisively faster than that of the SLS.

It's shifting a different powerband at a different RPM. Also, the location of the gearbox is in a different area. It should feel different even if it is the same unit just like the 335 DCT feels different than the M3 despite being the same box.

I could be wrong but the 458 I drove also shifted MUCH harder which would lead me to believe higher line pressure which gives the illusion of a faster shift. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the 458 shifts are faster - up and down.

I could be wrong but the 458 I drove also shifted MUCH harder which would lead me to believe higher line pressure which gives the illusion of a faster shift. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the 458 shifts are faster - up and down.