And as a PR person I find it funny that BOTH of the top Heisman finalists were helped dramatically by complete bullsh*t stories that had nothing to do with their production on the field.

I'm not saying that neither deserved to be there, I'd just remind people that Manziel wasn't allowed to talk to the press while A&M created a whole image for him that also seems to be BS. Te'o was allowed to talk to the press apparently with a made-up story.

/also, never even heard of Te'o's story before this either//it's amazing how much bullsh*t you escape when you don't watch ESPN or other crap sports programming that gives you zero information about sports and 100% fabricated crap to "humanize" the athletes

ha-ha-guy:ha-ha-guy: CADMonkey79: ha-ha-guy: CADMonkey79: DamnYankees: IAmRight: I just find it really odd that everyone always wants to believe the star football player is gay (prior to this, it was Tebow).

In this case, we want to believe that because its the most charitable reading of events.

Good point. But like others have said, wouldn't just finding a "fake" girlfriend on campus be a lot easier?

If the Ronnie guy was his BF though, this lets them flirt on Twitter and all that crap since Ronne controlled the Lennie account.

True, but that is a lot of risk to take just to flirt in public.

It also gives him a cover story for stopping off in Cali on his way to and from Hawaii (or even just over break). I agree it isn't the most foolproof way to do this, but isn't way out of left field given some of the benefits you get from it. This might have been the best a pair of semi intelligent Mormons could come up with or they had enough hubris to think they could make it work, without thinking of long term issues like when ESPN wants to do a puff piece on his GF.

The other thing is lets him use some of the details from his gay relationship. Like he can say he went to some beach in Cali or whatever, he just has to remember to say he took Lenny not Ronnie. Or the whole thing started as a knee jerk because some girl hit on Te'o, the first thing that came to mind was "I have a SO in California" and then he was stuck with the lie, etc.

One scenario that seems possible is a combination of his being duped by a fake girlfriend online (for whatever reason), together with fictional elaborations made up by himself about real meetings and phone calls.

The latter might be to curtail increasing questions about why nobody else ever saw or heard from her; or might be pure fantasizing on his part -- fabulation, as it's sometimes called. I've known people who have fabulated elaborate stories that they stubbornly cling to even in the face of self-contradictory claims. And like Te'o, their stories often have a romantic, Hollywood air to them, not the messiness of real life (on one occasion I pointed out to somebody that she wasn't recounting her courtship, she was recycling the plot of West Side Story). All of the details that Te'o has shared -- eyes meeting across a crowded room, long late night calls, a tragic ending right out of Love Story -- are pure Hollywood. And if he is fabulating, it's not merely Making Stuff Up on the level of a Canadian girlfriend; he sincerely believes his own fiction.

IAmRight:Incorrigible Astronaut: it's interesting that this is where the "real journalism" is coming from.

And as a PR person I find it funny that BOTH of the top Heisman finalists were helped dramatically by complete bullsh*t stories that had nothing to do with their production on the field.

I'm not saying that neither deserved to be there, I'd just remind people that Manziel wasn't allowed to talk to the press while A&M created a whole image for him that also seems to be BS. Te'o was allowed to talk to the press apparently with a made-up story.

/also, never even heard of Te'o's story before this either//it's amazing how much bullsh*t you escape when you don't watch ESPN or other crap sports programming that gives you zero information about sports and 100% fabricated crap to "humanize" the athletes

The only time I heard the story about the dead girlfriend was during the national title game.

IAmRight:It's also funny if he is gay, because coming out would've gotten him a hell of a lot more Heisman votes and popularity than the dead girlfriend story.

That's the only thing that could repair his image....if he comes out and say he's gay, and this was all drummed up to hide it for fear while playing a sport that's unaccepting of it, and also because of his religion, and where he played college football. But the cover up took a life of its own, and got out of hand...and he's sorry.

People will sympathize, and will forgive.

But if he comes out at sticks with being a victim of a 4 year fraud...his image will always suffer from that.

CADMonkey79:The only time I heard the story about the dead girlfriend was during the national title game.

Ah. I peeped a few minutes of it, saw Alabama was ahead by a ton, and found better things to do. Plus I had the volume down anyway because I know I would've murdered people if I had to hear the riptide of fellatic currents coming from the desperate need to praise Notre Dame and the desperate need to promote anything and everything SEC.

czetie:One scenario that seems possible is a combination of his being duped by a fake girlfriend online (for whatever reason), together with fictional elaborations made up by himself about real meetings and phone calls.

I'm leaning in this direction. My first impression was that Te'o was totally full of crap and had to be in on it. But, I can't help but notice that ND appears 100% convinced that he was duped. There was absolutely no reason for ND to unequivocally support Te'o. It would have been very easy to say that their "preliminary investigation suggests that Te'o may have been a victim of an elaborate hoax" or something along those lines. Maintain deniability. But ND's very clear statement really makes me think that they are convinced that Te'o was duped. Particularly because it's not going to be terribly difficult to prove if Te'o was involved. I also note that during the press conference, ND's AD deferred questions about the inconsistencies to Te'o -- he knows Te'o lied, and he's going to let Te'o address those questions.

IAmRight:Incorrigible Astronaut: it's interesting that this is where the "real journalism" is coming from.

And as a PR person I find it funny that BOTH of the top Heisman finalists were helped dramatically by complete bullsh*t stories that had nothing to do with their production on the field.

I'm not saying that neither deserved to be there, I'd just remind people that Manziel wasn't allowed to talk to the press while A&M created a whole image for him that also seems to be BS. Te'o was allowed to talk to the press apparently with a made-up story.

/also, never even heard of Te'o's story before this either//it's amazing how much bullsh*t you escape when you don't watch ESPN or other crap sports programming that gives you zero information about sports and 100% fabricated crap to "humanize" the athletes

The only really misleading thing about Manziel was that announcers kept calling him a redshirt freshman, while hours-wise he is actually a junior

/hell the family had to take control of the "story" so that there wouldn't be NCAA violations because somebody sold Johnny Football Tshirts or something like that

IAmRight:It's also funny if he is gay, because coming out would've gotten him a hell of a lot more Heisman votes and popularity than the dead girlfriend story.

From most non-believers, but if he's as Mormon as he's marketed to be, that might get him a shunnin'.

Not that I have much emotional investment in this outside of the initial "huh?" and instant intrigue factor, but if he is gay and this story was meant to be his cover...gracious, this is a lot of effort and attention drummed over a f*cking beard.

A lot of you are missing the point here. Whether he "was duped" or not isn't the question.

The question is why he continued to act like the relationship was real even after he and his family allegedly told ND it was a hoax.

My guess is it's because he didn't tell ND it was a hoax, and there was no investigation. But now they can tell people that he was instructed to play along as if the hoax was still happening on the advice of these fictional "investigators." And the NCAA and the police were never told, so I believe ND believes they've closed the loop. That's why they're going all in with Te'o.

sigdiamond2000:So why did he continue to lie about it after he and his family allegedly told ND that it was a hoax?

I have NOT seen this. I saw one question about it after December 26, and I believe that he gave a complete non-answer and talked about his team. I would be happy to look at something more concrete and review my position.

As far as the questions about meeting her in public, it appears that there is a woman who has publicly identified herself as the girl, as noted in the linked article. I assume that he met her.

CADMonkey79:Plausible, but how would the NFL guys claiming to know her fit?

That's definitely one issue. I heard one theory about the Ronnie boy being a jock sniffer and he might have used a faux girl on the NFL guy or something (maybe he actually was able to get a girl to act for him there). That said, personally I lean in the direction of gay coverup, but I see why others could lean in other ways. I assume sooner or later Deadspin or someone will dig up enough details to connect all the dots and explain the question marks like that NFL guy and we'll know the whole truth.

Personally I could give to shiats and a fark abut this kid's personal life, but this story is bizarro so I have to follow it. I'm dead certain that the poor kid is gay, and that the entire family has been trying to cover it up. I just kind of feel bad for him, really.

IAmRight:Incorrigible Astronaut: That might be the case, but would you want to live with that in the hyper-masculine culture of an NFL locker room

I think NFL players care about it a lot less than people think they do. Most already are aware that they probably have gay teammates.

Than why hasn't it happened yet?

I don't mean to be the white knight brigade of that movement on Fark- I'm just putting pieces together between a lot of contradictory statements, and this makes too much sense for it not to be brought up as a talking point. I hope that it comes down to "he was naive," but there are far more things contradicting that. Maybe he had a girlfriend that somebody didn't approve of, then broke up with her, and his friends are covering for him. To tie this back to the sports world, how will this affect the guy's draft status?

ATRDCI:IAmRight: Incorrigible Astronaut: it's interesting that this is where the "real journalism" is coming from.

And as a PR person I find it funny that BOTH of the top Heisman finalists were helped dramatically by complete bullsh*t stories that had nothing to do with their production on the field.

I'm not saying that neither deserved to be there, I'd just remind people that Manziel wasn't allowed to talk to the press while A&M created a whole image for him that also seems to be BS. Te'o was allowed to talk to the press apparently with a made-up story.

/also, never even heard of Te'o's story before this either//it's amazing how much bullsh*t you escape when you don't watch ESPN or other crap sports programming that gives you zero information about sports and 100% fabricated crap to "humanize" the athletes

The only really misleading thing about Manziel was that announcers kept calling him a redshirt freshman, while hours-wise he is actually a junior

/hell the family had to take control of the "story" so that there wouldn't be NCAA violations because somebody sold Johnny Football Tshirts or something like that

Redshirt freshman refers to the fact that he redshirted during his first year of college. Manziel this year played during his first year of eligibility (his second year in college). Next year he'll be a redshirt sophomore, which means he's been with the program for three years but will be playing in just his sophomore year of eligibility. Two years from now, assuming he doesn't go to the NFL, he'll be a fifth-year senior and will exhaust his eligibility.

sigdiamond2000:Holy Christ. Has anyone read this Pat Forde article on this yet?

Laughter LOL out loud.

The traditional media has to astro turf this. They got suckered into this when all bought the dead gf story hook, line, and sinker. They also want to stay in ND's good graces for future program access, which means downplaying this and making everyone look like a victim of some nebulous entity not connected with ND.

IAmRight:/seriously, wtf is "Catfish" and why the hell have so many people heard of it?//I mean, I looked it up...I just want to know why anyone who knows anything about football would also have a connection with that

ha-ha-guy:CADMonkey79: Plausible, but how would the NFL guys claiming to know her fit?

That's definitely one issue. I heard one theory about the Ronnie boy being a jock sniffer and he might have used a faux girl on the NFL guy or something (maybe he actually was able to get a girl to act for him there). That said, personally I lean in the direction of gay coverup, but I see why others could lean in other ways. I assume sooner or later Deadspin or someone will dig up enough details to connect all the dots and explain the question marks like that NFL guy and we'll know the whole truth.

I guess that lends a little credibility to him just being duped if there are other victims from the same fake girl.

czetie:And if he is fabulating, it's not merely Making Stuff Up on the level of a Canadian girlfriend; he sincerely believes his own fiction.

Baron von Mantihausen?

muwaryer:There was absolutely no reason for ND to unequivocally support Te'o.

The Catholic school that earned its following flaunting the legends of 'winning one for the Gipper' and 'Rudy' certainly wouldn't double down on claiming the new legend of their star linebacker's dead girlfriend was just a cruel internet hoax and not anything that could be further damaging to the university football program. Nope, they're completely trustworthy here, cross their hearts and swear on Touchdown Jesus(tm).

ha-ha-guy:sigdiamond2000: Holy Christ. Has anyone read this Pat Forde article on this yet?

Laughter LOL out loud.

The traditional media has to astro turf this. They got suckered into this when all bought the dead gf story hook, line, and sinker. They also want to stay in ND's good graces for future program access, which means downplaying this and making everyone look like a victim of some nebulous entity not connected with ND.

Yep, you nailed it.

But, my God, the sheer shamelessness it takes to write an article like that. Wow.

El Uno Magnifico:ATRDCI: IAmRight: Incorrigible Astronaut: it's interesting that this is where the "real journalism" is coming from.

And as a PR person I find it funny that BOTH of the top Heisman finalists were helped dramatically by complete bullsh*t stories that had nothing to do with their production on the field.

I'm not saying that neither deserved to be there, I'd just remind people that Manziel wasn't allowed to talk to the press while A&M created a whole image for him that also seems to be BS. Te'o was allowed to talk to the press apparently with a made-up story.

/also, never even heard of Te'o's story before this either//it's amazing how much bullsh*t you escape when you don't watch ESPN or other crap sports programming that gives you zero information about sports and 100% fabricated crap to "humanize" the athletes

The only really misleading thing about Manziel was that announcers kept calling him a redshirt freshman, while hours-wise he is actually a junior

/hell the family had to take control of the "story" so that there wouldn't be NCAA violations because somebody sold Johnny Football Tshirts or something like that

Redshirt freshman refers to the fact that he redshirted during his first year of college. Manziel this year played during his first year of eligibility (his second year in college). Next year he'll be a redshirt sophomore, which means he's been with the program for three years but will be playing in just his sophomore year of eligibility. Two years from now, assuming he doesn't go to the NFL, he'll be a fifth-year senior and will exhaust his eligibility.

Yes, I am aware. My point was that the only "built story" around Manziel, other than the nickname, was slightly misleading terminology when regarding him as a freshman

Peter King @SI_PeterKingRT @slacker_mike: Why did major outlets like SI, ESPN not identify this with fact checking?

In fairness, I can probably understand taking people at their word for it if there's a whole family talking about how they knew this person. Most of the time you're not going to assume they're lying and go check for a death certificate. If it were for a book, sure. For a random article or a brief mention on TV? Let's not assume reporters have all f*cking day to work on just one story.

ATRDCI:El Uno Magnifico: ATRDCI: IAmRight: Incorrigible Astronaut: it's interesting that this is where the "real journalism" is coming from.

And as a PR person I find it funny that BOTH of the top Heisman finalists were helped dramatically by complete bullsh*t stories that had nothing to do with their production on the field.

I'm not saying that neither deserved to be there, I'd just remind people that Manziel wasn't allowed to talk to the press while A&M created a whole image for him that also seems to be BS. Te'o was allowed to talk to the press apparently with a made-up story.

/also, never even heard of Te'o's story before this either//it's amazing how much bullsh*t you escape when you don't watch ESPN or other crap sports programming that gives you zero information about sports and 100% fabricated crap to "humanize" the athletes

The only really misleading thing about Manziel was that announcers kept calling him a redshirt freshman, while hours-wise he is actually a junior

/hell the family had to take control of the "story" so that there wouldn't be NCAA violations because somebody sold Johnny Football Tshirts or something like that

Redshirt freshman refers to the fact that he redshirted during his first year of college. Manziel this year played during his first year of eligibility (his second year in college). Next year he'll be a redshirt sophomore, which means he's been with the program for three years but will be playing in just his sophomore year of eligibility. Two years from now, assuming he doesn't go to the NFL, he'll be a fifth-year senior and will exhaust his eligibility.

Yes, I am aware. My point was that the only "built story" around Manziel, other than the nickname, was slightly misleading terminology when regarding him as a freshman

It's not misleading at all to people who know what the term means. He's a first-year player. He and a true freshman, before this year, had the exact same playing time experience - none. It's the first time a first-year player has won the Heisman in history - that's pretty remarkable.

CADMonkey79:ha-ha-guy: CADMonkey79: Plausible, but how would the NFL guys claiming to know her fit?

That's definitely one issue. I heard one theory about the Ronnie boy being a jock sniffer and he might have used a faux girl on the NFL guy or something (maybe he actually was able to get a girl to act for him there). That said, personally I lean in the direction of gay coverup, but I see why others could lean in other ways. I assume sooner or later Deadspin or someone will dig up enough details to connect all the dots and explain the question marks like that NFL guy and we'll know the whole truth.

I guess that lends a little credibility to him just being duped if there are other victims from the same fake girl.