We have mostly used up the journal oil we've been using on trolley No. 10, and need to buy some. The oil we have was given to us when we had the trucks overhauled. We don't go through much, top speed 15 mph, trips are about 5 minutes long with longer pauses between runs. I've never know the journals to get the least bit warm.

Can I just get something at the auto parts store?If so, what?If not, where does one get 5 gallons or less of journal oil?Thanks,Sam

> We have mostly used up the journal oil we've> been using on trolley No. 10, and need to> buy some. The oil we have was given to us> when we had the trucks overhauled. We don't> go through much, top speed 15 mph, trips are> about 5 minutes long with longer pauses> between runs. I've never know the journals> to get the least bit warm.

> Can I just get something at the auto parts> store?> If so, what?> If not, where does one get 5 gallons or less> of journal oil?> Thanks,> Sam

Journal oil is readily available, although generally in the 55 gallon drum size. The following are all equivalent products as identified in the Orange Empire Railway Museum standard lubricants list, and all should be currently available.

> We have mostly used up the journal oil we've> been using on trolley No. 10, and need to> buy some. The oil we have was given to us> when we had the trucks overhauled. We don't> go through much, top speed 15 mph, trips are> about 5 minutes long with longer pauses> between runs. I've never know the journals> to get the least bit warm.

> Can I just get something at the auto parts> store?> If so, what?> If not, where does one get 5 gallons or less> of journal oil?> Thanks,> Sam

Hi Sam:

Although the commercial journal oils are readily available, they usually require the purchase of a full drum.

I do not mix a light viscosity journal oil like the products listed by John Smatlak, but I have started to produce a "Pin, Bearing & Journal" oil for open bearings and slides on all types of machinery. The lightest grade available now is called PB&J460 Formula 2. It is a very simple oil because it contains only paraffinic bright stock and a light viscosity tackifier.

It is equivalent to a SAE140 gear oil, but spreads and wets the bearings much quicker than the typical gear oil.

I developed this oil primarily for open journal type bearings on heavy reciprocating engines (i.e. steam locomotives and stationary steam engines). But, it has proven to work very well in other applications.

It might be a little heavy for your journal boxes on the streetcar, but should lubricate the journals very nicely if the weather doesn't get too cold. Most importantly, I pack and sell it in pints, quarts, 1/2 gallon bottles, 1 gallon bottles and 5 gallon pails. It is also available in 7.5 gallon and 55 gallon drums. One gallon will run you $26.50 plus UPS shipping if you would like to try some.

I have the sample components to produce two lighter grades of PB&J. These would be a PB&J320 and a PB&J220. Both of these would be more like an SAE80/90 weight. If you would like to try a lighter grade I can custom mix one or two gallons of the PB&J220 so you can try it out. The price would be the same as above.

Actually I jumped on the Interchange tonight to let people know I have supplemented my cylinder oil line with the Pin, Bearing & Journal oil. It is the only simple bearing oil I know of and will provide superior lubrication on most of the old style open, plain bearings that are used on old locomotives and other types of equipment.

If anyone is interested please email me. I have not put this up on our website yet, but you can contact me at www.steamenginelube.com and I will get you the specification sheets and pricing.

I have had no problem purchasing the above product from a local distributer in the Los Angeles area in 5 gallon quantities. I use it for lubricating Hyatt roller bearings. Price was about $35.00 for 5 gallons.

Your local distributor might be repackaging it as it wasn't available from Texaco in less than drum quantities six months ago.

> I have had no problem purchasing the above> product from a local distributer in the Los> Angeles area in 5 gallon quantities. I use> it for lubricating Hyatt roller bearings.> Price was about $35.00 for 5 gallons.

Bruce Pierce

Post subject: Re: Journal Oil?

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:35 pm

Jon,Could you share the distributors name, phone number and fax if available with us? A drum would last our group 2-3 lifetimes!Our local distributor is no longer re-packaging it into smaller quantities for this areas market.

Thanks,Bruce PierceMid-South Rail Heritage FoundationHardin KY

> I have had no problem purchasing the above> product from a local distributer in the Los> Angeles area in 5 gallon quantities. I use> it for lubricating Hyatt roller bearings.> Price was about $35.00 for 5 gallons.

Due to some issues I'd rather not discuss, we switched over from Journel tex to 80/90 wt gear oil about 10 years ago. This gear oil(76 brand) seems to have worked OK for us. We have cars running some times 20 hours a day (=160 miles) with no overheating issues, or rapid bearing wear.

Our climiate is also such that it rarely dips below the freezing mark.

When I last bought some oil this past July, they said something to the effect that there had been some sort of merger betwen Texaco and Shell and that the "Journal Tex HD 57" would be phased out, or less available, or something along those lines. However, the Shell equivilant, "CYPRINA 963" was readily available and could be purchased from them in 5 gallon containers. So, that was what I bought, even though my receipt actually says "Texaco Journal Tex HD 57". The container has the correct Shell identification, however.

I called them today just to check on current availabilty and they said that they have 27 gallons of the HD 57 left that they want to get rid of and would likely be willing to break it down into 5 gallon containers. They also have the CYPRINA 963. They evidently would be willing to ship out of state but don't normally do that as they always just sell to local So. Cal based clients. Talk to Debra (sales rep "DR"). I have found these people to be very accomodating and they couldn't be any nicer to deal with.

Beware of oils that change names and dealers claim are the same. If a company has a certain name for an oil product and the name changes the contents have also changed. I found this out (the hard way) several years ago with Texaco's 650T steam cylinder oil. They changed the name to Vangaurd 1000. It was claimed to be the same but after a season of running with the V-1000 the piston packing shown signs of extreme wear.With formulas, if the name changes the formulas change also.

William L. Petitjean, P.E

Post subject: Re: Journal Oil?

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:35 am

Hi Roger:

You are just the latest victim of gear oils that masquerade as steam cylinder oils. The major oil companies have renamed their cylinder oils and now call them gear oils. They have done this for a reason......there is no industrial market for steam cylinder oils anymore! You will find most gear oils are not very good steam cylinder oils.

Your case is extreme, but the problem will only get worse as more of the old heavy oils are discontinued, or are produced from light base stocks that have been beefed up with low flash additives that just turn to goo inside hot steam cylinders.

I have posted here and elsewhere about my Green Velvet Steam Cylinder Oils. I began blending cylinder oil about a year ago and have had very good feedback from users. The Durango & Silverton used Texaco 650T until it was discontinued and no longer available. Vangard 1000 was substituted and the D&S doesn't like it either. If you go into the old Vangard specs. they tell you they use lard oil instead of tallow oil. Lard oil is not a very good surfactant in steam cylinders that should have 650T because it is not very stable at high temperatures. Most of the modern specs don't tell you about this sort of thing because gearbox people don't care. Make no mistake! You are playing second fiddle to the gearbox users!

My Sapon-A-Min Formula 4 is patterned after 650T and I feel it is a superior product because I have the tacifier additive Texaco did not use. D&S tried some of my synthetic cylinder oil but did not see enough improvement to justify the higher cost. So, I am quoting them on the Sapon-A-Min Formula 4.

I am not having much luck getting these oils out to the tourist and heritage railway community yet this season, but it takes time to get the word out. Also, I have developed a pin, bearing and journal oil that is specifically designed for steam engine running gears. This is brand new this spring and has produced spectacular results at the Mt. Rainier Scenic Railroad.

You mentioned you noticed excessive wear on packing rings. This is an old story recited to me many times when I worked for Skinner Engine Company. If you find the right oil it almost cannot be too expensive if you compare it against the cost of repairs like new packing rings.

I got into the oil business for steam engines so I can contribute something to the industry. My oils are made specifically for steam engines and I can provide a cylinder oil that will work in your engine consistantly drum after drum. I tell you what's in my oil and I don't change formulations willy nilly like the big guys. Drop me an email or log onto http://www.steamenginelube.com. I can help you out.

You do make great oil, Bill, but don't forget that the majority of tourist and museum railroads run nowhere near as intensively as D&S. Many have 55 gallon drums which will last a decade only part used, and aren't likely to be potential customers until the existing stock runs out.

Still, hard to finmd a better proving ground than D&S. If it works there it will work anywhere.

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