July 07, 2006

Who's a diva? Who's the next Santino? Talking with Tim Gunn of 'Project Runway'

There are people in television who give drab, predictable interviews and never dish out any juicy gossip.

Tim Gunn is not one of those people. Thank goodness.

The endlessly quotable Gunn (left) is back as the mentor to the aspiring fashion designers on Season 3 of “Project Runway,” which arrives on Bravo Wednesday, just a few scant months after the second edition of the show wrapped up.

Despite having built up a passionate following during the past two winters, the fashion reality show, which has given a real-life boost to the designing careers of its best-known contestants, will air only in the summer going forward, Gunn says. This season’s finale will revolve around runway shows that will take place during Olympus Fashion Week in mid-September.

“The most wonderful thing about the auditions for Season 3 is that it was very clear that the industry perception is that `Project Runway’ will help your career, will help take it to that next level,” says Gunn, who is also chair of the fashion design department at Parsons The New School for Design. “And I thought, `Wow, what greater compliment is there?’”

But what you really want to know is, has last season’s runner-up, Daniel Vosovic, become a diva? Gunn dishes on that and a host of other “Runway”-related topics below:

On why and how Chloe Dao won Season 2, the reality-TV upset of the year: “The runway deliberation went on for two hours. I was sitting with the legal department [of Bravo], and we were whispering, going `It’s Daniel [Vosovic], it’s Santino [Rice], it’s Daniel, it’s Santino.’ About an hour and 40 minutes into this, [judge] Nina [Garcia] goes into this rhapsodic soliloquy about Chloe and her collection. … It was going to Daniel, and [Nina] turned everybody around to Chloe. It was the most remarkable thing I’ve ever seen.”

On the reaction to Dao’s Season 2 win: “I was shocked. I was in a complete and total state of shock. As was she.”

On Vosovic’s shock at not winning Season 2: “I had to pick him up off the floor and resuscitate him.”

On his current assessment of Vosovic: “My darling little Dan has become a terrible diva. And it’s really unattractive. … He’s been offered several jobs. He’s turned down everything. They’re not good enough for him.”

On the auditions for Season 3: “The outrageous people who showed up — had they had great work, I know we would have had them do an audition tape. It tended to not go that way. We had some real freaks show up, in fact it was [often] a case of wanting to get security.”

On his ability to offer direct criticism that doesn’t manage to destroy competitors’ tender egos: “It’s come from years of being a teacher. I found quickly in my teaching career, if you approach a student about something that’s not going well … . If you approach them with sincere concern and say, `I need to tell you how I really feel about this, because I feel a responsibility to you and I want you to succeed,’” that usually works best.

On product placement on “Project Runway”: “This is the huge, horrible, hand-wringing, head-holding issue for us — the sponsors’ demands, and how to work with them and not completely compromise the show. The budget [for the show] is coming from the Weinstein Company. How recklessly are they selling `Project Runway’s’ soul?” Though there was major drama with one potential sponsor who didn’t end up in the show, Gunn says, “I really believe [product placement] hasn’t become too horrible” on “Runway.”

On Jeffrey Sebelia, the designer to rock ’n’ roll royalty, who may just be Season 3’s Santino Rice: “He’s an interesting and complex guy. I believe that some people will respond positively, and some people will have a real distaste for him. It’ll go both ways.”

When Tim Gunn says, “I’m concerned,” it’s time to listen. So what’s his concern for Season 3? “Going into Season 2 and interacting with the designers and seeing the work that they were doing, which was kind of lackluster in many cases, I kept thinking, `This is such a big bomb, nobody’s going to like these people, they’re going to miss Jay and Kara Saun and Wendy, this is going to bomb.’ Then of course, it was an even bigger success [than Season 1]. My concern with Season 3, through all the taping, I really thought everything was great,” he notes with a laugh. “This is feeling too good. That’s my new concern.”

Much, much, much more from Tim Gunn on the jump.

Below is the transcript of my interview with Tim Gunn.

I know we talked about this last time, the fact that Season 2 had even more experienced designers than Season 1, but this time around it seems as though you have even more experienced contestants.

“We do, we do. The most wonderful thing about the auditions for Season 3 is that it’s very clear that the industry perception is that ‘Project Runway’ will help your career, will help take it to that next level. And I thought, Wow, what greater compliment is there?’ There isn’t one.”

Glancing at what Kara Saun and others have been up to recently – Kara’s designs for Heidi in Season 2 were great and she has other actual gigs to point to.

“Yeah, she does.”

So it’s even more the case that people take the show seriously within the industry?

“Well, I’ll quote Roopal Patel, who’s a vice president at Bergdorf Goodman. Roopal said to me in the last couple months, ‘Project Runway’ is one of the best things to happen to American fashion.”

Why’s that?

“She said it’s demystified fashion for people, it’s made fashion accessible, and that’s a wonderful thing to hear, as opposed to, ‘Oh, it’s made a laughingstock out of the industry.’ It has a palpable seriousness. I mean, yeah, it’s a show, we want to entertain, but these are real people who are working on real careers.”

And in most cases, as with most careers involving creativity, they’re often working for not a lot of money.

“Definitely. In this industry, you have to love what you do or you wouldn’t do it.”

And what the show also does, especially with the challenges, is mix up couture, street fashion, trends, classic looks – it’s not just one view of fashion.

“Thank you. That was one of our goals.”

I don’t look at the show and say, Oh, that’s only something that a socialite would wear to a gala. That looks like something I would wear. It doesn’t look too exclusive…

“Or like a Halloween costume, just a joke.”

Exactly. Getting back to the “Road to the Runway” special, it looked as though you were deciding on the final candidates – you and Heidi and [judges] Michael Kors and Nina Garcia. Is it you four who really decide or are there more people involved?

“Yes, the producers of the show and Bravo are very involved. During the auditions, we bring it down to about 100-120 people, whom we ask to submit biographical videos. Eventually it goes down to about 30 people, who then have to go through a whole battery of psychological tests. We want to know if we’ve got any lunatics, anyone who’s potentially dangerous. And that’s a very rigorous process. People can be eliminated that way, and there are more interviews, to really find out whether they have the wherewithal [to make it].

“In the auditions, we’re assessing talent and, to a degree, personality. Personality alone is not going to get them anywhere. The talent has to be there, at least we can perceive of it. You’d like to think the work they present is their own, and they made the work.

“For the producers and Bravo and me, we want a diverse range of people. And that’s very important. There can be holes, where you wish you had someone who fit into category X, and we don’t really have anybody. But what happened, which was in its own way constraining, in casting Season 3, had to do with the caliber of designers who turned out. Laura Bennett this season is our sort of ‘mom.’ We had a number of moms [who turned out]. But we were worried whether they had the design aptitude to make it through more than two or three episodes.

“In spite of all the investigation and research, we’re still basically looking at a snapshot. And you don’t really know who they’re going to be until they arrive and start interacting.”

One woman in the first episode was having trouble with the sewing machine – the perennial problem. Did you try to make sure people had sewing skills, or is that really their call?

“Well, in some of the cases – one of the outcomes of having a veteran of the industry is that they’re not going to sew. They’re going to be a little rusty. If they stay, they’ll get into the swing of things. But we also don’t want a sample hand. We want a designer. If they just can make good clothes and there’s no design, then, ho hum. Goodbye.”

You also have another menswear designer, who said at one point that he was making was his first dress. Is that a concern, whether he can make it? Or is his experience in the industry going to help him no matter what?

“Yes, yes. I look at Emmett McCarthy from Season 2, who’d been designing menswear for 15 years, and he did well [in the competition]. And he as a shop now in Nolita and he’s doing really well – and it’s all women’s clothes. He’s out of menswear all together. And he used the show to change his design career, and he did just that. I told him, Emmett, it’s going to take you three years to turn a profit – he already is.”

Speaking of Season 2, what about Santino’s impersonation of you? “AN-dre….”

[laughs] “There would be times when I would be watching Season 2 shows and I would hear my voice offscreen and I would think, is that me or Santino?”

And the pictures of you and the guys at Red Lobster…

“I know [laughs]. My only regret is that it wasn’t open. I would have gladly sat in a booth for a photograph.”

I didn’t even realize it wasn’t open. Just the picture of you guys at Red Lobster was enough to send me over the edge… “Project Runway” fans have known from Season 1 onward how important you are to the show, but it seemed like you became an even bigger star in Season 2.

“And it was largely because of Santino, and the editors.”

But did you notice more public awareness and press attention? Was it more crazy?

“Well, I wouldn’t call it crazy by any means… I’m having the time of my life. People are so wonderful and lovely and just want to tell me how much they love the show. And that’s music to my ears.”

So how is all of this affecting your other job [as head of the fashion design program at Parsons The New School For Design]? Are you still filming Season 3?

“We just wrapped last week.”

So now you’re down to the final four – or is it three? – who will show in September’s Fashion Week?

“I can’t say. But yes, they will show Sept. 15.”

So has the competition interfered with your Parsons duties at all? Will it in September?

“I’ll tell you, the only time I’m truly juggling two full time jobs is during Fashion Week, because Parsons is in session and ‘Project Runway’ is going full tilt. This time, the designers arrived the last day Parsons had classes. I will say, I would have given anything to have a week between the two, but we just couldn’t do it, timing-wise. Anything to make the show work. We had 32 straight days of filming, though. Relentless. No stopping.”

Did you ever get a vacation?

“I really haven’t, we’re still getting ready the new season [to begin airing] and with all the post-production, voiceovers and things of that sort [they need me around]. But I’m having a blast. I keep pinching myself, going, ‘How could this have happened?’ And all after I turned 50! When people are looking at their 50s, [oftentimes they’re saying] ‘Early retirement, I’m going off to the woods.’ But all the fun stuff of my life is just starting.”

Well, so many of the truly enduring reality shows have one steady presence, one crucial casting choice, whether it’s Jeff Probst on “Survivor” or Phil Keoghan on “The Amazing Race.” And for “Project Runway,” you are that presence – in your case, you’re able to give people honest criticism without putting them off. You should put out a book, “Tim Gunn’s Guide to Incisive but Kind Confrontations.”

“It’s come from years of being a teacher. I found quickly in my teaching career, if you approach a student about something that’s not going well -- if you approach them in a way that isn’t, in some way, supportive of wanting to this to get better [it will not go well]. As opposed to making a declaration – ‘You’re failing this, goodbye.’ If you approach them with sincere concern and say, ‘I need to tell you how I really feel about this, because I feel a responsibility to you and I want you to succeed,’ [that will work, otherwise] they’ll dismiss you, and write you off as being meanspirited and unhelpful.

“Truly, I know it sounds like perhaps hollow words, but they’re not – I really want them to succeed. I know someone’s going to be out. But I really want them to succeed. And what was so interesting about this season was, going into the runway judging, I [often said], ‘I have no idea what the outcome of this is going to be. In terms of execution, you have each done extremely well. In terms of design, it’s really a matter of taste. It’s a matter of how the judges are feeling today. And I don’t know how to call it.’ And that was true for a lot of the season. It could have been anybody.”

This first challenge this season, I think it was on a par with Season 1’s first challenge – it was really creative, not to knock Season 2 at all. But it was really a high level of design that came out of this year’s first challenge, generally.

“I’m thrilled to hear you say that.”

Well, the main thing is that you guys are obviously continuing to choose candidates based on skill – partly on personality too, but a lot of who gets chosen still appears to be based on skill.

“And we had [skilled people] show up for the auditions. This is why I kept saying [last season] ‘Santino can’t win.’ Because I thought, we just can’t have a freak parade [at auditions].”

Well, that’s one thing I wanted to ask you about. You wrote that on your blog, that you didn’t want him to win because it would cause a lot of ‘freaks’ to apply. First of all, I don’t think Santino was just a mouth.

“Oh no, he was a talented designer. I’m in total agreement. I was concerned we were going to send a message, that if you’re this Santino-like character, please show up for the auditions.”

But didn’t that happen anyway?

“Well… [pause]. Well, no, I don’t think… let me step back. I had no idea during the [Season 2] auditions that Santino was Santino. I knew he was six and a half feet tall and a strong physical presence and had stunning work. I hadn’t a clue that he was that guy [who emerged on the show]. Actually that’s not absolutely true. When I saw his autobiographical video, it gave more insight into how he would be on the show.

“If we’d seen [the extreme version of Santino] at the auditions, I think it could have gone the other way. The outrageous people who showed up – had they had great work, I know we would have had them do an audition tape. It tended to not go that way. We had some real freaks show up, in fact it was a case of wanting to get security.”

But the high profile of “Project Runway” was such that whoever won, I think you were going to get a freak show in the next round of auditions. And I have to be honest, I was not at all happy Chloe won [more on that here].

“I was shocked. I was in a complete and total state of shock. As was she.”

It seemed that way. It seemed that people were just stunned.

“I’ll be completely honest with you about this. I walked back from Bryant Park [where the runway shows were staged] with Bravo executives and they said, ‘So, what do you think?’ And I said, it’s got to be Daniel or Santino. There’s no way Chloe could win. But if I could pick one of the four, I’d pick Kara [Janx, who staged a decoy runway show as well], but she can’t win.’”

You just read my mind.

“Well, based on Austin’s performance at Bryant Park [the year before], Bravo was really worried about Kara giving it away [the fact that she was not actually a finalist in the ‘Project Runway’ finale]. They sent me to see her, without cameras, and I was thrilled to see her because I love her.

“I walked into her studio and said, ‘You know something? If you were one of the final three, you wouldn’t be doing this collection’ [because she would have overthought it too much]. And she threw her arms around me and said ‘I know!’ It was so full of risk-taking and it was just spine-tingling. And my spine had not been tingled.

“Well, that’s not true. I was really excited when I visited Santino. I was quasi-excited when I visited Daniel. And I was downright disappointed when I visited Chloe. She had two pieces and that weird William Morris fabric. There were no sketches. It was like, what are you doing? Then she arrives [in New York] with a bunch of upholstery. It was like, what is this?”

Exactly. I mean, I know there were some weaknesses with both Santino’s and Daniel’s collections, but Santino had that amazing dress that you saw in LA. It was stunning.

“Yes, it was.”

But he never really knocked it out of the park like that during the season. He came close, but he didn’t really have a piece like that during the season.

“No, he didn’t. To be honest, before seeing him in Los Angeles, I was convincing myself that he didn’t really understand construction, which is why there was wretched excess and deconstruction and all the hot glue gun stuff, because nothing was really finally sewn. But then I got to LA and saw that dress and I wanted to fall to my knees.”

Well, speaking of Daniel’s collection, it at least looked forward, whereas Chloe’s looked back. Like, back to Palm Beach in the ’80s.

“I am in absolute agreement. Can I tell you what happened there, with the [final] runway judgment?”

Please!

“I was sitting with the Bravo legal department. We were listening to the dialogue, and can I just tell you, Debra Messing was terrific – boy, does she know clothes and how to talk about them. So we had Debra, Nina, Michael and Heidi. This runway deliberation went on for two hours. I was sitting with the legal department, and we were whispering, going ‘It’s Daniel, it’s Santino, it’s Daniel, it’s Santino.’

“About an hour and 40 minutes into this, Nina goes into this rhapsodic soliloquy about Chloe and her collection, and throws into it all of her successes during [the season], and how everything’s been memorable around. It was going to Daniel, and [Nina] turned everybody around to Chloe. It was the most remarkable thing I’ve ever seen.

“The legal people turn to me, kind of with incredulity and say, ‘It’s Chloe?’ And I said, ‘I trust nothing until it comes out of Heidi’s mouth.’ And it did! And I couldn’t believe it. I simply couldn’t believe it.

“I will tell you, and this goes to the integrity of the show, the producers and Bravo were in a state. And Frances Berwick, executive vice president of Bravo, could conceivably have stopped it, but she said, ‘It’s their decision.’ I just was … I kept saying, ‘How are you going to explain this to the audience? Anybody looking at that is going to think that’s crazy!’”

Were you worried about the credibility of the show? Because with Chloe’s win, there were all sort of theories, about what the sponsor wanted, about maybe a woman had to win, this and that… I think the outrage stemmed from the fact that, isn’t this about rewarding the next great fashion designer, which, conceivably, Daniel could be, in five years?

“I think he will be too, five years from now, I think you’re right. Well, there was real shock in the room. And I have to say, just in terms of being the debate queen, my hat’s off to Nina, she did it. She was successfully persuasive. She took it away from Daniel. Santino was never in the running. For a while he was, because of how they were talking about him, but they weren’t talking about Chloe at all! It was quite something to watch.”

Was Santino out of the running because of his personality?

“There were two big things about Santino – one was the fit of his clothes [in the final collections], and I wanted to say, ‘Give the guy a break.’ He came to New York with everything beautifully finished, but the runway models were extremely late. Most did not show up until Thursday – the runway show was Friday. Our call time was 5:30 a.m. He had to fit 10 girls on Thursday, plus we had the 13th look [he had to create]. I felt really bad for him.

“As for Daniel, my Parsons kids, who were the dressers for the show, they were all sitting on the floor sewing. And I’m asking ‘What are you doing!?’ Daniel’s collection still wasn’t done at 5:30 a.m. [the day of the show]. And Nick [Verreos] was over in the corner with a portable sewing machine, being the sweatshop for Daniel. The fact that everything came so unfinished was, in some ways, a positive for Daniel [because he could fit the clothes to the models, whereas the finished nature of Santino’s garments was] a negative for Santino.

“The other question was, what happened to Santino? And I wanted to stand up and shout, ‘What happened to him? You beat him into submission!’ So they were very disappointed that he didn’t take it over the stop. What I marveled at was that he could still remain Santino and still have this incredibly elegant and refined work. I applauded him.

“There was a moment when they were showing me the collections in the workroom during Fashion Week, and I will just tell you, I had to control myself. I welled up with tears when he showed me that. I just felt so proud of him.

“The kind of reaction I gave to Daniel, and I know people were mad at me about that – I gave Chloe a worse reaction, but of course they edited that out, because she won. I said to Chloe, ‘Where’s the couch and the ottoman? You’re a sportswear designer, where did this come from?’”

I know, that’s the thing. She did a lot of very fresh, clean, young things for the show – and then it was like, where did these “Dynasty” outfits come from?

“Those words were even said by me! ‘Where are Linda Evans and Joan Collins?’ I didn’t know what to say. Then we got into a big argument, I don’t remember if this was on the show, over what Grace would wear. Grace was her signature model and would wear her last look. I said, ‘Look, I’m trying to help you. Get her out of that couch!’”

Someone left a comment when I did my rant about Chloe winning – something like, “Of all the clothes we saw in the finale, I would have worn Daniel’s clothing out the door.”

“And you could have.”

In terms of being about the next American designer, I really liked Santino a lot, but I think Daniel’s designs were probably the most in tune with a younger mindset. Were there sour grapes from him that he didn’t win?

“Oh. My. God! Maureen! I had to pick him up off the floor and resuscitate him. Oh, sour grapes? And I gave him a very stern, big-daddy talking to, and I just said, ‘Look, you’ve got to take the high road here, you’ve got to support Chloe’s win, it will make you look even better. If you walk around saying you were cheated out of your win, it’s not going to look good for you.’”

Do you think he did that successfully?

“Well, yes, but I’ll also share something else with you. My darling little Dan has become a terrible diva. And it’s really unattractive.”

Based on what? What has he done to merit being a diva?

“Exactly. Based on what? And now he’s offending people. He’s offending the press.”

I want to say he must have offended Michael Kors – most people, if Michael Kors offers them a job, they would take it! People starting out in fashion would kill for that job.

“He’s been offered several jobs. He’s turned down everything. They’re not good enough for him. I said, ‘But you have no experience. I know you almost won ‘Project Runway,’ but you have no experience. Who’s going to let you direct-design at a company? You’re going to have to be an assistant designer.’ ‘Well, then I’m going to do my own collection.’ But Daniel, you’re not ready for that! Unless you have a very experienced sidekick and tons of financial backing, you’re setting yourself up for failure. And people love you now.

“Let’s say Barney’s places an order – you have to deliver or face the consequences, which are permanent. And I said, ‘I care too much about you to let that happen.’

“So I arranged a meeting with one of our faculty, who is a big dealmaker in the industry. I set it up with the express purpose of scaring the living daylights out of [Daniel]. I don’t know. He’s not working for anyone. He’s going to every party in the world, he’s out all night. I’m just concerned. When I talk to people, and they say, ‘Oh, I just called him to interview him and I got a lot of really bad attitude out of him.’ …

“We just did the Saturn Sky Roadster commercial, and he’s telling the director and client, ‘Oh, we can’t film there, it’s too uncomfortable for me, I’m recognized too often.’ Just put on your blinders.”

I can say, categorically, that you are way more famous than Daniel.

“Well, you’re a sweetheart to say that. But I’m also aware that all that could go away as quickly as it was delivered.”

Well, I think some of your charges are not aware of that.

“I know. I know.”

Is Daniel’s attitude sort of thinking that because he’s been on the show, he doesn’t have to pay his dues?

“That summarizes the attitude very well. I’ve been trying to think about this phenomenon and how it happens and in some ways it’s because [in Daniel’s case], the show’s over, he’s beloved by all, it happened *to* him. And he thinks things will continue to happen to him. But he hasn’t paid his dues to Seventh Avenue yet.

“Who would, because of what he achieved on ‘Project Runway,’ say, ‘OK, I’m going to let you oversee production, spec sheets and the sourcing of this collection.’ That person would be delusional. There’s so much for him to learn. How he responds to that when I assert that to him is that, ‘Oh, I’ll have people working for me who can do that.’ And I say, ‘Then what are you?’ His response is, ‘I’m great public relations for the company.’ Like, a spokesperson? What does that mean?”

Well, maybe when you get to the level of Calvin Klein or Ralph Lauren, you can just sit back and be the sort of public face of the company. But what has Daniel done to deserve that status?

“I’m really glad to hear you say that.”

There are so many designers who are really talented and get a lot of press – and they still go under.

“Absolutely! This industry is ready to topple anyone. Who wants more competition? And the retail industry is insatiable when it comes to excitement, something new. Three or four seasons later, bye-bye. We don’t need your buzz anymore. There are graduates of Parsons that this happens to. I’m out there rooting for them, and I believe in them, but I also know this stuff happens all the time.”

I think Daniel will regret not taking one of these jobs.

“I agree. And he’s had really good, blue-chip offers.”

And I’m sure fashion’s like so many other industries – everyone knows each other at that level. And when word gets out that he’s turned good offers down…

“I know. I saw him at an Entertainment Weekly party last week. I said, ‘How’s the job search going? And he said, ‘Oh, they’re going to have to come to me.’ And I said, ‘Daniel, I wish you only the best of luck, I really do.’”

So Jay McCarroll is finally showing in Fashion Week? That’s what he said on “Road to the Runway.”

“Let’s hope. I won’t believe it until it happens. I’m hoping, it seems like he’s turned himself around. I heard he was showing in the Bryant Park tents and I was over at Seventh on Sixth [which organizes the New York fashion shows], and I asked [a Seventh on Sixth official], and she just looked at me like, ‘No.’ [They don’t know if he is showing away from the official Fashion Week tents, but Gunn said Jay was not on the September tent schedule as of late June]. I hope he shows.”

I thought the special on him in February was really fun.

“The original intention of that special was to follow him making the collection, which of course didn’t happen.”

Is he still hoping for a massive licensing deal?

“I believe so, but with Jay, it’s within the realm of possibility, as opposed to Daniel. Where, with Daniel, as opposed to his Olympus Fashion Week collection, there isn’t [a body of work by Daniel]. Jay had his own line [and had shown collections before]. I don’t mean to trivialize it, but other than [what he showed at Fashion Week], we don’t know Daniel. One of the reasons I think he won so many challenges in Season 2 is because he didn’t have a particular point of view and could keep morphing himself, chameleon-like, and I’m not saying that isn’t a good thing, he won a record number of challenges. But he is inexperienced.”

Regarding the show’s return, does it worry you at all to come up with another season so soon after the last one finished?

“Does it worry me? Yes. But I’ve had to talk myself out of [worrying] because it’s happening. There was a while when I was having a serious debate with the producers and Bravo, and I was saying, ‘Why are we doing this? The audience is with us, let’s keep them waiting, we’ll launch in December again, we’ll do February fashion week, which is [focused on] fall clothes. Why are we doing this?’

“But Bravo was really intent on launching it in the summer and branding it as a summer show. All the speculation that we’re going to do another one in December – that’s not happening.”

So it’s now just a summer show, once a year?

“Yeah.”

Do you think it being a summer show is a good idea?

“Well, I will tell you, the Bravo people are brilliant. I have to say, I have enormous respect for them and their brainpower and their creative power. They really believe this is a good thing.”

I actually think you guys kind of owned that December-January time frame. Summer is actually getting quite competitive, especially for reality. And September, when you guys finish up – that’s crazy busy. Nobody’s going to be able to give the finale the press it’s had in the past.

“We’re going to be competing with all the new shows. It concerns me.”

And Tim Gunn’s concern is something to be heeded.

[Laughs] “I have to say, I was at Bravo yesterday and they are very confident.”

It seems as though you guys are as creative with the challenges this year. You aren’t just resting on past successes there.

“We have not. There are some great ones coming up.

“My big concern this whole season of taping… I have to back up and give you context. Season 1, we went along and we did it, and during the whole thing I never knew what it was going to look like. Who knew what it would be? I watched the first episode thinking, ‘Very possibly, and probably with a huge sigh of relief, you won’t see me.’ Season 1 ends up being a big success.

“Going into Season 2 and interacting with the designers and seeing the work that they were doing, which was kind of lackluster in many cases, I kept thinking, ‘This is such big bomb, nobody’s going to like these people, they’re going to miss Jay and Kara Saun and Wendy, this is going to bomb.’ Then of course, it was an even bigger success. My concern with Season 3, though all the taping, I really thought everything was great.” [laughs]

Danger, danger!

“Exactly! This is feeling too good. That’s my new concern.”

That rock ’n’ roll guy Jeffrey, with the tattoos on his neck, is he Santino junior or what?

“He’s an interesting and complex guy. I believe that some people will respond positively, and some people will have a real distaste for him. It’ll go both ways.”

But in terms of having experience, he has had some serious clients and some real design experience.

“Yeah, he really does. He’s the real thing.”

Do you think the level of design is higher this year? Though it’s probably in your contract that you have to say, “Oh, it’s the best year ever!”

“You know, frankly [if I wanted to hedge] I would just say, it’s on a par with Season 2, which I believe was stronger than Season 1, but was lackluster in general, because nobody wanted to be [kicked] out. They didn’t really care about winning, they just didn’t want to be out. But Season 3, it’s a stronger designer and it’s a stronger level of execution. You’ll see that, definitely.”

So, no tape holding things together?

“Well… there’s one show coming up, about three-quarters of the way though, that I would love to talk to you afterward on the topic of tape!”

What’s up with that guy Malan [Breton]? My husband was born in Malaysia and grew up in England, which is sort of similar, I guess, to Malan’s background, but Malan’s accent… it doesn’t sound like anything either of us have ever heard before. [Malan’s Bravo bio says he’s lived in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Australia and various parts of the US, and that he’s danced with Paula Abdul, directed films and done voiceover work for ESPN, among other things.]

“Dan Cutforth, the executive producer for Magical Elves [the company behind ‘Project Runway’], is British, and he says the same thing.”

So maybe there’s something fishy about him?

“He’s real, he exists [laughs] but what is that accent? That is a good question. Did you read my blog about the auditions? In the blog, I cite that this was the third year he auditioned. I think we took him every year. First year, we didn’t, I don’t remember year one what happened. Year two, we accepted him, cast him, then he rejected us.”

Why having any dealings with him after that?

“That was my question. Now, you want it to happen again? And now we have a higher level of people. What makes you think you can cut it?”

Why do you think they cast him?

“Character.”

To be a character?

“Well, he is a designer who shows in alternate spaces, so he’s serious about his fashion career, I think. Or did he just want to show? That’s the question I have. He’s an interesting character. But that alone will not keep him on the show.”

What about product placement on “Project Runway.” So far it doesn’t seem too obnoxious, but there sure are a lot of deals in place for this season.

“This is the huge, horrible, hand-wringing, head-holding issue for us – the sponsors’ demands, and how to work with them and not completely compromise the show. The budget [for the show] is coming from the Weinstein company. How recklessly are they selling ‘Project Runway’s soul?”

Well, this is a concern I’ve had. So far product placement hasn’t been like a frying pan upside the head…

“But it could have been. The producers expressed their concerns to Bravo, and Bravo went head to head with Weinstein, and in the end, Bravo won. But in the case of one of the sponsors … [there was] a very difficult, demanding sponsor [who didn’t end up on the show]. What that challenge would be, and how we would mitigate and facilitate all the bad issues and facilitate getting something plausible and successful done, that was a conversation the producers and I were back and forth with for three months. We were doing [the challenge with that sponsor], we weren’t doing it.

“The day before that challenge, the sponsor was back on. And it was like, ‘What?!’ We’d all heaved this huge sigh of relief, then suddenly it was, ‘Oh no!’ By three o’clock that afternoon, they were out again. Thank God, close the door, lock it! We didn’t have to work with them and had no fear of ever working with them, because the person at the Weinstein company who did the deal is gone.

“I have some wonderful organizations who contact me and [want us to do a challenge for charity]. I write back and say, ‘I agree with you, but unless there’s money, it’s not going to happen.’ We have so many obligations to the sponsors, that whenever we have a free challenge, for lack of a better word, we really want to do something that’s not constrained by an organization. And we look forward to those moments. But I really believe [product placement] hasn’t become too horrible.

“Moet and Chandon is a sponsor, and [in one scene] Heidi refused to hold the bottle of champagne in a way that allowed the label to be seen. But we had to do it. So I end up doing it, but in a different scene. She said, I’m not doing it.”

But she’s could go out and do a commercial or a print ad, and get money for it. Why should she give away her ability to be part of a paid advertisement for Moet? This is happening in scripted shows too, where actors are being given lines that sound like they’re from commercials.

“Yeah, companies are paying for that.”

Can you tell me why Banana Republic is out as a sponsor?

“You know, I’m really disappointed in them. I love them, I think we’ve been so good to them. I saw one of the execs at an event, and I said, ‘What happened?’ And he said very glibly, ‘We thought we’d give someone else a shot.’ And I thought, were you unhappy? What could you possibly be unhappy about? Not to mention me [constantly wearing their clothes].”

Are you still wearing their clothes even now?

“Yes, I’m all in Banana Republic as we speak. …You know what happened in Season 1, right?”

No, what happened?

"Well, the wardrobe went back [Banana Republic supplied Gunn with clothes but then asked for them back]. That was fine, but they objected me saying that the wardrobe went back. But it did, that’s the truth.”

They wanted the clothes back? You’re kidding.

[Yes, it all had to go back] “including the socks. What are they going to do with the socks?”

I always enjoy Tim Gunn's comments; he has tied Project Runway together for me, put it into proper perspective, and educated me about fashion, ever since the series began.Thanks for your interview, filled with just the right questions and rejoinders.

I'm also pleased to see the suggestion that Gunn thought Santino should have won Season 2. Although I went back and forth on Santino myself -- despising him one week, loving him the next -- I ultimately decided he was a fascinating young man wit talent which should have been rewarded with a win. (I may be one of the few who like Chloe's fashions, and I don't begrudge her good fortune, but Idon't think she quite merited top honors.)

I'm sorry to hear that Bravo has decided to place the show in a summer-only slot, and hope that the powers that be change their collective minds. The more, and longer, we see Tim Gunn, the more enjoyable Wednesday night television will be!

However, he's wrong about Chloe. I didn't love her line, but I thought it was definitely the best one of the three we saw. Daniel V. gave us clothes that you'd see in the Gap and Santino only got by on that show by pretending to be this great artistic designer and using that as an excuse when having to explain why his clothes were so poorly made, so it's not surprise that when he finally had to show what he was made of, it would be things that were poorly fitted and sloppy looking.

What a FANTASTIC interview!!! I am linking to this from my blog. Everyone should read this. Tim Gunn is absolutely, positively, one of the most refreshing people on television today. Thank you for sharing this!!!!

He was absolutely right about Chloe's runway collection. It was horrible. I think she used 3-4 fabrics for the entire collection. It looked incredibly dated and doesn't hold up well. I thought it was a licensing issue. Daniel's stuff was meh.

I could not stand Santino all season, but he produced an elegant, couture level collection. It was the only one that was really on the par with the Season 1 Runway show. They were beautiful.

What cracked me up was that the judges cracked on Nick and his certain touches throughout his time there, rather cruelly at times too (vulgar -- please). I felt, for the most part, Chloe kept producing the same thing over and over again. Even her post win clothes at the boutique -- could they be anymore boring and dated?

Daniel thought he deserved to win, but didn't. Santino was robbed. But he's getting lost of red carpet work, and success is the best revenge...

Brilliant interview. God bless Tim Gunn for being completely honest and forthcoming in this interview. I could almost hear him speaking while reading the transcript. He is a genuine teacher, capable of parsing information in the most gentle, straightforward way.
I was so glad to hear his comments about Daniel V. I suspect all season that he was ho-hum, but managed to pull of so many wins because of his ability to understand what the judges are looking for and to execute it, not because he has a unique or interesting vision. Throughout the show I found his attitude to be snide and condescending, and his comments about Santino's need to be "nicer" were nothing more than a "look at me, everybody loves me" response. I always sensed that he felt slightly superior and Tim Gunn just proved it. Thank you Tim and don't ever change!

It's almost shocking to read an interview with somone so candid. You get so accustomed to celebrities putting a spin on everything that it's amazing when one actually says what he thinks. Thank you, Tim, for being oh-so-enjoyable to watch.

Thank you for a lovely interview.
Im really glad to hear a lot of the things beeing said and discussed. You aksed all of the things i we been thinking about and got so wonderful anwsers and such a good discussion.
Im really impressed by Tim Gunn and his way of staying so honest and genuine in this business.
Love Tekla

But, as someone who only watched the second season, I guess I disagree with opinions expressed about those designers. I don't get the love for Santino; arrogance followed by some consistently good work is one thing, but his creations during the challenges were one disaster after another...the turkey skating outfit, the dreadful jumpsuit, the ridiculous lingerie, gowns with all sorts of busyness all over them,...but he gets to the finals because he is a "creative genious"? And the ill-fitting, boring stuff he showed at fashion week was not all that great.
Quite frankly, while Daniel could do some fine work, I find some of his wins were not warranted. For example; the flower/greenery competition: that thing could pass as an actual dress made from fabric (as Michael Kors said??)? It looked exactly like what it was...a talented person sewed flowers and greenery onto fabric. Kara's and Chloe's outfits had his beat...also, his "inspiration outfit.." exactly how did that puffy blouse and boring skirt resemble an orchid? Andre's beautiful gown was much better designed, put together, and evocative of the photograph. I could go on, but I honestly felt that they built up Daniel to be the golden boy, and he did not always deserve the win. His final collection was boring.
Chloe was cheated out of a few wins, and while those heavy fabrics could have been lighted up a bit, some of them really looked beautiful.
Kara's did look great, though, and probably should have won, had she not been the fourth!

Tim Gunn reminds me of some of the best art teachers that I've had, showing real concern for the students (or in this case, contestants) and voicing his concerns in gentle and construtive ways, and also, in never hesitating to offer encouragement or praise when he sees something wonderful. He's one of the best reasons to watch the show.

Chloe won because she had an easy style albeit, slightly outdated. Santino was one of the most annoying contestants ever, other than Autin, and Vosovich was OK. Why critics equate weird,, unwearable designs with talent is beyond me. Most of Santino's stuff wasn't wearable.

So everyone watched as Bradley got the boot on last weeks episode, right? Well I came across something very funny on the net. It may explain why Bradley created that horrible out fit for Cher, in the Past Celebrity Contest. In April 2000 Good Housekeeping had Madonna on the cover, with a shirt that looks exactly like Bradleys Cher shirt.
The Cover captions reads,
Madonna Grows Up
Older and wiser, she talks about her wild past, her worst mistakes, and why she's trying to be an old-fashioned mom.

Ok, well the worst mistake she made, was wearing the unflattering space martian shirt on the cover of Good Housekeeping. I dont know what Bradley and Madonna were smoking that day, Ask Whittney and Bobby, they may know! That was a great interview! For anyone who wants to see the Cover of the Good Housekeeping Magazine email me.
Make it work...

Daniel V. is trying to convince the public now that he did try to get a job w/ Kors, but they called him and said that there were no openings on Michael's design staff. Knowing what Tim has been saying about Daniel, this sounds like a planned PR move to try to change the public's opinion of him, as well as the lead fashion designer's opinion of him. If Dan did finally approach Kors, it was most likely a good long time after the PR finale (back when he thought he was too good for MK). I bet Kors was put-off that Daniel took so long to come around, plus Kors probably knows of Dan's diva attitude and promptly turned him down. What is with Daniel? Does he now make a living as a media star, cause he sure isn't selling clothes. I too thought he was fake, and vain as we saw him look in the mirror (during season2 ) and tell us that he has to brush his hair 500 times; he really loves himself. But it was his self righteous attitude w/ Santino and others that was fake and pompous. This is a guy who at PR2 auditions, didn't even have his diploma yet (*shakes head*). What Tim said about Dan not wanting to film the Saturn commercial for fear of being recognized, I'm like, come on you tool, you're the PR2 loser, you were auf'd, get over yourself.

I am a big fan of project runway. Im trying to find out how to start my own business in fashion. I currently have some of my designs on paper only. how do I even begin to start lifting it off the ground. its always been a dream of mine to put my own designs on clothing and handbags. please help
thank you

All I have to say to TIM GUNN is Bite my 40+ year old butt! There is NO REASON why a woman OVER 40 shouldn't wear CAPRI LENGTH PANTS! We like to be fasionable as well, just because some of us are Grand Mothers DOES NOT MEAN WE HAVE TO DRESS LIKE ONE

I am 43, and have both dress and cargo capri pants. I think they are really cute, and look great on me. When I go to my kids' school in the hot weather, it is not appropriate to wear shorts (which also look great on my 43 year old butt.) Slacks and jeans are too warm. Light weight capris are the perfect solution. I also love the fact that you can wear flats, wedges or heels with them and you don't have to worry about the length being too short or too long.

I agree with Tim on pretty much all of the other fashion "don'ts" he listed, but I was thrilled when capris came back into style....and hope they are around for a long time to come.

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