Actually, these are the kinds of players (I'm refering to BOTH of your posts) attracted by any game that allows BOTH VAMPIRES AND WEREWOLVES.

If your game is meant to be an angsty gothic Anne Rice epic, then you run Vampire. If you are running a noble "losing the war" tribal game about the coming Apocalypse, then you run Werewolf. The only reason to allow both together is if you have NO theme to your game, and are essentially just running a big circle-jerk power-gamer-fest where roleplaying takes a back seat to combat and rock-paper-scissors. Suffice to say that I have played in very GOOD vampire games, and I have played in very GOOD werewolf games... but every time PC werewolves make an appearance in a vampire game (or vice versa), the result is nothing but suck. And it reflects very badly on the ST for allowing that kind of garbage.

I myself made that mistake once in a LARP I ran... and even though I went to great lengths to insist that the werewolf characters had to be outcasts with a REASON to want to hang out around with vampires, it still did not end well. If ever you find yourself playing a vampire LARP and a PC werewolf (or mage, or changeling, or whatever) shows up, do yourself a favour and RUN. Don't look back. It's not a game worth playing.

Werewolves are antagonists for Vampires, and in a Vampire game are called Lupines to reflect this.Vampires are called Leeches or Cadavers in the reverse for the same reason.

To be perfectly honest, you get the same thing when you have Sabbat PCs in a Camarilla game and vice versa. Any time you have PCs who are playing antagonists to other PCs you have a recipe for disaster and hurt feelings.

You never have the I'm a Werewolf/ I'm a Vampire Mac PC add like Tom and I had there...it's always fighting and rock paper scissors tests and crying and maybe a little pee.

A Zen Koan:A Master said unto his Student,"I Own you, Bitch. Know this."And the Student was Owned,And Knew it.

Werewolves in werewolf games are a much different story. I can accept that.

The vampire game had roleplayers and powergamers but only the powergamers played the werewolves. Yes indeed, after the restart of the game amde it ONLY VAMPIRES they snatched up the gangrel and brujah slots right away (pre-gen characters for "balance").

The werewolf player was known as "Killer Tim" and he was a very bad sort of gamer. The worst stereotype of a werewolf in a vampire game, he soured me against werewolf in general for a couple years. He actually collected character sheets of the players he killed. His idea of a brilliant game was to have his players roll up neonates who were embraced by a caitiff anarch, given 5 minutes of explanation of the embrace before ditching them, and then have the coterie get attacked by a Get Ahroun in the first half hour of play. When he got there late for the restart he was stuck with a Torreador. He ignored the character concept so utterly that by the end of the second session he had diablerized 3 vampires, a brujah, a torreador (his sire) and a NOSFERATU!

Also, the only reason he attacked me is that a random narrator thought everyone looked bored so she ran around out of game telling people to "Have Fun". His first thing was to tap me on the back and say "Sneak attack, attempt to sever" while gesturing Crinos.

I'm very bitter about anything having to do with that guy. like when he literally walked over top of my character in the Camarilla LARP. Yes, I was standing up.

I think it would be neat to play in a real werewolf game someday. The closest I came was running a bunch of hengeyoki in Hong Kong. Which was meant to be kitchen sink but when someone will LET you play a mokole, rokea, or Technocrat, why would you play a Kuei-jin or a Vampire? Most of the players went for the brass ring and enjoyed the experience. We did have an American Glasswalker and a Tremere though, and it actually ended up being a good game despite two characters killing each other and ending the story prematurely.

Tom the Fanboy
Enthusiasm over Accuracy!

"You should totally put that in your signature Tom. You drain 1d10 investigators per round." -Dustman

Only Werewolf appearance we had was a schaman who basically dropped by to explain to the Prince what a bad idea it was to declare a random hunting party against them. The rest of us were busy trying to cover behind eachother while trying to preserve face.

And it looks like we are about to play a bunch of infiltrating PC-hunting guys too, but severely outnumbered.

Holy Cow, I am very jealous of your awesome looking Rifts game... my players were always very boring (human Glitterboy, human Crazy (best character ever), human Shifter (later Elven Mind Melter), though I suppose the Giant Lizard Cyberknight wasn't so bad...). Though the last time I played was when I was still a teenager... maybe the time has come to dust off the old books.

Sketchbook Sundays are briefly on hiatus... until the new forums are up and running, at least. Alina is working hard on new content for the site, as well as new products (we're going to have our own t-shirts and buttons for sale soon! Much more reasonably priced than the Spreadshirt tees, and we can set our own charges for shipping), and she hasn't had much time for anything else. I'll try to keep you all informed of the progress!

Actually, these are the kinds of players (I'm refering to BOTH of your posts) attracted by any game that allows BOTH VAMPIRES AND WEREWOLVES.

If your game is meant to be an angsty gothic Anne Rice epic, then you run Vampire. If you are running a noble "losing the war" tribal game about the coming Apocalypse, then you run Werewolf. The only reason to allow both together is if you have NO theme to your game, and are essentially just running a big circle-jerk power-gamer-fest where roleplaying takes a back seat to combat and rock-paper-scissors. Suffice to say that I have played in very GOOD vampire games, and I have played in very GOOD werewolf games... but every time PC werewolves make an appearance in a vampire game (or vice versa), the result is nothing but suck. And it reflects very badly on the ST for allowing that kind of garbage.

This is why I play current WoD setting, where there's no animosity between the Uratha and the Kindred. That being said, if I'm playing OWoD, Changeling or Demon are, in my opinion, the way to go for best storyline (provided in the former you don't get a whole group who want to play Childlings on the playground hunting for dragons in the jungle gym).