Okay, I have told you fellas about this book I read some time ago that is called, "A prophetic Vision for the 21st Century." In this book, the author Rick Joyner shares a vision that was given to him during a time of prayer that speaks to a time we are now quickly approaching in my opinion.

As I've said, this is a CHRISTIAN discussion and I want to caution you to step away if you are not interested. If you wish to read on, please note that these are the author's words, I'm just sharing them with you because when the term Fiscal Cliff started getting thrown around, this "vision" came back to my memory. KEEP IN MIND THIS WAS DONE IN AUGUST OF 1995, or 27 years ago. I know it sounds fairy tailish, but prophecy is NEVER straight English, it's filled with symbolism, but I think it's very compelling to read something that pertains so closely to what we see today, and I thought y'all should see it. Be blessed.

Field of Dreams or Nightmares?

Whiel praying in August 1995, I saw a field in a vision. The end of the field was covered in fog. Not far into the fog there was a very steep cliff. In the middle of the cliff there was a narrow, twisting, steep path that appeared like a descending bridge. It had the same green grass on it that the field did, and this grass went all the way to the bottom. Most of those who walked into the fog missed the little path and fell over the cliff. Some of these died, but there were nets below the cliff that caught many of them. However, these nets were not there to save the people but to trap them. Others entered the fog carefullly, dropping to their knees and searching for the path, which they seemed intuitively to know was there. Most of these people were able to find the path, and they carefully started down on their knees. A very few people had parachutes, and they jumped off the cliff into the fog. At the bottom of the cliff was a sea with four kinds of ships in the harbor - slave ships, warships, luxury liners, and hospital ships. Most of the ships were slavers. the next greatest number were warshipos. Only five were hospital ships, all of whuch were on clean, well kept docks right in the middle of the harbor. The two luxury liners were docked at each end of the harbor. There was an abundance of supplies on the luxury liners' docks, but both the docks and the ships looked filthy and poorly maintained. No warships were docked; they all kept moving about in the harbor. The people who fell into the nets were put on the slave ships. Most of those who made it down the steep paths headed for the hospital ships, but many headed for the luxury liners. Of those who headed for the luxury liners, some were captured and made to board a slave ship. The luxury liners were closely guarded and were obviously under the control of the warships. The warships occasionally took people from the slave ships and luxury liners, and they took whomever they wanted; they could not be resisted. Those from the hospital ships also took people from the other ships, but they took only those who were the weakest or who were so sick or wounded that they were not expected to live. The crewmen of the hospital ships were shown respect because they wore brilliant armor that seemed to confound everyone else. Those who were jumping off the cliff with the parachutes were all landing o nthe hospital ships or their docks. When a slave ship would fill up, it would depart, making frequient turns as if it really did not know where it was going. The warships were also making so many turns, that it seemed impossible to tell which way they would go next. Any ship that happened to be in the way of a warship when it turned was blasted and sunk. If the warships turned toward each other, they started shooting at each otehr until one was sunk. Because of the fog many ships collided with other ships and sank. The water was filled with sharks that quickly devoured those who fell into it. The confusion, despair, and fear over the harbor were as thick as the fog. When the fog became even thicker, these fears intensified. Then as the fog subsided, hope began to rise in the people. Once the fog lifted enough that the open sea could be seen, the ships began heading for it. The hospital ships were the only ones that sailed as if they knew where they were going. They could sail right through the chaos in the aharbor and into the open sea at will. One or two of them were constantly going out to sea, disappearing for a time and then returning. Then another would go and do the same. As I followed one of these ships to the open sea, suddenly it was as if I were standing on the bridge of the ship. The farther out we went, the more the sky cleared. Soon it became bluer than i had ever seen it, except when flying in a high altitude jet. I was so intrigued by the sky that I had not been watching the sea. When I looked back at it, I saw that we actually were flying at a very high altitude. I thought that we wr going out into space, but soon we descended toward what appeared to be a whole new world. It was composed of islands, each with a different culture of people on it. The wounded on our hospital ship were placed on several of the different islands, so that each person was with thsoe from his or her own culture. These islands were at perfect peace, and beautiful white brideges connected them to one another, with a constant flow of people across the bridges. On each island vast foundations were being laid for great cities.

Even though each island was very different, and all of them were different from any place I had ever seen, I felt immediately at home on each one. they were each like paradise, and though they seemed to be on a different world, I knew that they were somehow very close to the one I had just left.

THE INTERPRETATION:

In this vision, I realized that the end of the field indicated that the end of our economic prosperity is now in sight. What I saw at the end was much more catastrophic then I had ever thought. Some very dark times are ahead, but at the same time, a whole new world is being built right in our midst that is more wonderful than we can even imagine. The time we have been given until that happens is for the purpose of preparation. Let us build our hope and trust on the kingdom, which alone cannot be shaken. Those people who kept walking into the fog, just as they had been walking in the open field, not discerning or acknowledging the cahnge, either pereished or fell into slavery. Those who immediately fell to their knees were able to find a safe way down, but the path still went down. They had to stay on their knees all the way; no one could have stood up on that slope because it was too steep and narrow. Falling to our knees speaks of prayer. As soon as we see the go or confusion, we must pray for every step we take thereafter. That no one ascended, but all went down to the bottom of the cliff, spoke to me that the economy of the WHOLE WORLD was going down. many will survive what is coming, but not at their current level. Much of our present standard of living has been built upon credit, borrowing from the future, and the future is now here. We are fast approaching the time when the bills will have to be paid, and that will cause a drastic reduction of our present lifestyles. I felt that the slave ships were banks. During the Great Depression, banks were so overextended that most of them failed. Somehow, they have now positioned themselves not only to survive another economic collapse, but also actually to be in a place to enslave those who are in debt to them. The warships were all different sizes, and I felt they represented different powers. Their efforts were not coordinated, but they all seemed to be in as much confusion as everyone else, and all seemed to be at war with one another. They lived by plundering the other ships and each other. I believe that in the times ahead, small wars will be flashing up almost everywhere and without reason. Anyone who gets in the way of those with some power will be in trouble. The luxury ships were so filthy that being on them was only slightly better than being on a slave or warship. It was obvious that they luxury of the future will not be as we know it today. Also, the warships were constantly plundering the luxury ships making them almost an intolerable placed to be. even a hint of luxury in the future may serve only to make us targets. I knew that the hospital ships were the church. They were glistening white with red crosses on them. They were so bright and clean, they stood out dramatically in my vision. White speaks of purity, and the red crosses told me they were bearing the cross. Red is also the color of sacrifice. These ships were so beautiful that anyone whold have wanted to be on them. The church will become the most desirable place in teh world to be, and the church will become the pure vessel she is called to be when she takes up the cross, committing herself to the life of sacrifice. in the times ahead, the life of sacrifice and service to others will be the most desirable life in the world. The people on the hospital shops each wore brilliant silver armor. They, too, stood out dramatically whenver they appeared, and this caused everyone to show them great respect, even the warships. This told me that when believers learn to wear their armor, they are going to command the whole world's respect, and they will have authority because of it. The docks of the hospital ships wer also spotless and wre overflowing with supplies. There was far more wealth on them than on the luxury ships, but the wealth was being used for service, not luxury. Because the individuals with teh armor and the hospital ships commanded such respect, no one was trying to plunder their great stocks of supplies, even though they were obvious to everyone. When a hospital ship pulled between two warships that were fighting, they would stop fighting and give them their wounded. It seemed that this was one of the primary purposes of these ships - simply to stop the fighting whenever they could. In the midst of the chaos of this place, the dignity, resolve, and purpose with which the Christians and their ships moved was stunning. The greatest feelign of freedom came over me when I stood on the bridge of the ship leaving for the open sea. As soon as we entered the open sea and were out of the fog, we ascended into the heavenly places. When we came back dwon, it was to a seemingly new earth, even though I knew somehow that it was right in the middle of what I had left. That I entered this extraordinary freedom on a hospital ship speaks of finding our true peace when we take up our crosses to serve others. And if we do that, we will begin to dwell in the heavenly places. Then we will see the earth very differently; we will see what God is doing. I really felt that those paradise islands were already right inour midst, but we just could not see them yet. In prophetic language, the SEA often represents mass humanity. That the sea at the bottom of the cliff was in the most terrible chaos represents what the kingdoms of this wrold are headed for. The islands represent the lord's laying a foundation for His kingdom, right in our midst, at this same time. That I knew these islands were close to the sea of confusion spoke t me that what the Lord is about to build on the earth is also very close at hand. At the very time when the world descends into a terrible chaos, which will probably begin with the ECONOMIC CHAOS, God is building bridges between peoples that will be the foundation of a glorious future. The end of this age is the beginning of the one over which Christ will reign. In Revelation 17:15, we are told, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are the peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues." The bridges are right now being built between peoples. The bridges were for interchange, and it was obvious to me that each island was building something wonderful, as if it were the bery best from their culture, in order to share it with te other islands. That new foundations for cities were being laid represented a whole new beginning for the earth. What is now being built for the lord, for the sake of His kingdom, will remain and be a foundation for the age to come."

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

November 8th, 2012, 11:23 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 10024Location: Dallas

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

I don't think you will get much response to this. One, because it is based on a dream/vision. Second, it is a big jump (or interpretation) from his vision to an economic fiscal cliff.

It also dates back to 1995 (not sure how you get 27 years ago) but it is still back awhile. The other problem, from a date prospective, like virtually all religious based prognostications it lacks any specific date. That might be with good reason, you see what happens when specific dates are given - they come and go without anything happening.

I don't think you will get much response to this. One, because it is based on a dream/vision. Second, it is a big jump (or interpretation) from his vision to an economic fiscal cliff.

It also dates back to 1995 (not sure how you get 27 years ago) but it is still back awhile. The other problem, from a date prospective, like virtually all religious based prognostications it lacks any specific date. That might be with good reason, you see what happens when specific dates are given - they come and go without anything happening.

Which is exactly why it's hard to buy into these "sky is falling" theories...

I too find it a bit too big of a leap to find plausable

Christians have been predicting the end of days for centuries... and yet here we are still. I have grown numb to theories such as these.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

November 9th, 2012, 6:02 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

Sorry on the 27 it was late and I typed all that up from a Kindle Fire because that was where I had the book.

Concerning the Sky is falling you both believe, that's okay, you can go back to sleep, no worries, enjoy the matrix, it's lovely this time of year.

But here's a question:

This kind of leads into Joe's comment about my "fear mongering". Is there a difference between fear and warning? If I can see something, and I warn you about it, why am I the one fearful?

Here's another question:

In Michigan the weather is getting colder, the leaves are changing colors or have fallen, so what does that tell you? Winter is coming right? Do you know what day the snow will fly? How about how much snow you'll get? These are factors that are SIMILAR to prophecy.

17 years ago this man recorded a vision shown to him shortly after a time of prayer. He included it in this book, and I've shared it with you. The interesting thing about prophecy is that it doesn't have an exact time. It is a "warning" for those who will pay attention, or have the ears to hear. There are many things in what he said that for those who are able to see it, can see how close it is to becoming a reality.

The economic collapse of this country, and world are eminant. With the re-election of Coke, he will continue his current plan of spending, spending, and more spending via SOCIAL entitlement programs, that can not be paid for, BECAUSE less than half the country is working, or cares to work.

I've said it numerous times, that the mindset is being created that it is easier to live off of Uncle Sam, than it is to keep working for yourself. The current entitlement class is more than willing to live in government housing, or sponsored housing, medical care, utility checks, Earn income Credits, food stamps, wic, and let's not forget the Obamaphone!!! With the regulations that are or will be imposed through Obamacare, small businesses will be forced into eliminating jobs, or closing up altogether. I just read a report out of Vegas where a business owner laid off indefinitely, 22 employees. It seems that he warned them that if Obama gets elected then he is going to be forced to do it, due to the Obamacare law that will force him to pay certain benefits above a certain employee level. He advised his people that he's worked hard to care for them, and to ensure that they were always paid, but because of this new law, he was going to have to "fire" 22 of them. Wednesday morning he carried it out. Greece, Spain, Italy, and France are all prime examples of where the US is headed, closer to home, the State of California is our closet example of Westernized Europe that is failing. Government sponsorship is not meant to be a lifestyle, well that is until Obama.

Having said all of this, we won't know the exact day, but we will know the season. I shared the "vision" because I thought it was very telling of where we are at. I don't share any of this out of fear, but I'm hoping that in some way shape or form, it will strike a chord.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 says, "He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end." Whether that eternity is smoking or non-smoking, we all know at the appropriate time that we have somewhere to go. It is my hope that y'all will hear the warning.

PLEASE NOTE: I don't share any of this out of fear, but out of warning, because I CARE. I have made a point of praying for you guys because you have been placed upon my heart. So I do it out of brotherly love, and I don't mean this to be mean spirited or an annoyance in any way....

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

November 9th, 2012, 8:30 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4212Location: Davison Mi

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

I'm just going to repy to that by asking a question. Do you truely not see how you jump to worst case scenario conclusions?

You usually come up with a drastic conclusion to some you read in passing, even admitting to not doing any research to find out if it's even remotely possible, then call it a warning?

I don't know if you realize it or not but you're turning yourself into a kid I once heard about. All I'm starting to hear from you is " WOLF WOLF!"

You really have a bleak outlook on things that......worry...you. Your world views are dark my friend, darker than they show be. I truely am worried that you're spending too much energy focusing on the worst case scenario and feel you miss out on the silver linings ( so to speak)

It's YOU I'm praying for brother....the world truely isn't as bad as you fear it could be.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

November 10th, 2012, 12:24 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

Thanks for the prayer, and I guess a concerned outlook can happen when you have people you're concerned about that just can not see what's going on.

Like many other things we've discussed, time will tell! Be blessed

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

November 10th, 2012, 10:33 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 10024Location: Dallas

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Here's another question:

In Michigan the weather is getting colder, the leaves are changing colors or have fallen, so what does that tell you? Winter is coming right? Do you know what day the snow will fly? How about how much snow you'll get? These are factors that are SIMILAR to prophecy.

No they aren't. It is reasonable to expect snow in Michigan, since it snowed there last year, the year before and every year before that in memory.

As far as prophecy goes, in the last 2,000 years how many times has Jesus reappeared?

Sorry Pablo but I'm using a common known occurrence to illustrate a point. If I spoke of something that no one was familiar with, you'd scratch your heads and say, "what?"

But since I used the common example you can understand the meaning behind my point.

Let's look at Noah for example:

Here is a man who was told by God to make a boat, and build it to these specs. He did so, not knowing a. what a boat was, b. why he needed to do it, and c. what the purpose was behind the construction. But he was obedient to the calling he received, despite the ridicule he obviously endured by people who saw him doing the construction project. So let's see what Matthew had to say:

"Matthew 24:37-39New International Version (NIV)

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.(Jesus) 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Because of my care and concern for those who have been placed upon my heart, and who I've formed "internet friendships" with, I am trying to share with you what I know, and hoping that you'll be interested enough to take the step in faith. That's all!

Thanks for the prayer, and I guess a concerned outlook can happen when you have people you're concerned about that just can not see what's going on.

Like many other things we've discussed, time will tell! Be blessed

Is there a reason you aren't answering regularjoe's question? You do this a lot. People ask you a direct question and you respond with a cryptic message or a scripture quote. His question was a simple yes or no: do you truly not see that you are jumping to worst case scenario conclusions? So what's your answer?

I'll add that your comments about what you "know" are interesting in the sense that every single generation throughout history has also "known" that Jesus was coming back during their time. There have been predictions in literally every generation, without exception. Given that, how can you be so sure you know he's coming back in our time?

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

Morbid curiosity perhaps. I'm always interested in trying to figure out how people actually view themselves & their opinions compared to what I (and others) observe.

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

November 12th, 2012, 12:12 am

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4212Location: Davison Mi

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

Blueskies wrote:

Why do you guys bother?

Genuine concern.

Seeing the world from that dark of a perspective, and living in that kind of fear is not good for the mind or the soul.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

Last edited by regularjoe12 on November 12th, 2012, 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

November 12th, 2012, 12:59 am

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3121

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

Quote:

Genuine concern.

Seeing the word from that dark of a perspective, and living in that kind of fear is not good for the mind or the soul.

I believe the majority of "born-agains" are like this, as they are constantly talking about the imminent return of Jesus, the destruction of the world, etc.

November 12th, 2012, 1:26 am

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4212Location: Davison Mi

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

Blueskies wrote:

Quote:

Genuine concern.

Seeing the word from that dark of a perspective, and living in that kind of fear is not good for the mind or the soul.

I believe the majority of "born-agains" are like this, as they are constantly talking about the imminent return of Jesus, the destruction of the world, etc.

Not true really it's a matter of perspective. Let me put it to you this way, Rush Limbaugh does not represent the bulk of the republican party. But since he's the loudest and most in you face most people associate him as the general republican. Dooms day preachers generally have the same perception.

IMO Christians should not wish for the rush of the rapture. Sure the rewards for us are great but there are people we care about that would get " left behind". Christians are supposed to think of others first, ergo they should not wish for the damnation of those not in the boat. I personally find that in particular line of thinking to fall under the " selfish" category....not a trait to be reveared IMO

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

November 12th, 2012, 1:58 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Fiscal Cliff (a prophetic vision) Religious based

TDJ: To your question it boils down to a matter of perspective. From your perspective or Joe's or whoever, I have a negative world view, and I'm always seeing things from the dark. This in my opinion is NOT worse case scenario, and so using my freedom of expression, I choose to share information that I have, or experiences that I've endured to share with those who would be able to hear it.

Your comment about always doing that is not different then my asking a direct question, and getting no answer in return. It has happened several times, and it's generally out of the Biblical thread. My impression is that when said questions get too close to the nerve, instead of answering, the question is avoided. Much of what I'm being accused of eh?

On top of that, as I read through the responses, I might see a question, but as I read further something strikes me as more important and I respond to that instead of the previous question.

Look fellas, I am aware of who my target market is here. Disenfranchised former beleivers, former Catholics, Christians, and non-believers or pagans. Let me make this a little easier to palet, I'm just a beggar trying to show other beggars where I got the bread. In other words, prior to Jesus my life was down here, after Jesus, my life was transformed, and each day is a journey to get to know him better and make better choices. Through that process, and being a member of this board, I have come in contact with certain people who have been laid upon my heart. I don't know them personally, probably never will; but I will be obedient to what I've been called whether you understand it or not.

I'm prepared to be called a radical, a lunatic, or any other foul word you should choose, it's not going to affect the outcome. It's kind of like walking up stream in a river, the current keeps trying to pull you with it, but you've to keep fighting for that next step.

You are also correct that every other generation has made the comment that Jesus was coming, and they were correct but not about his arrival. I'm not saying he will be here tomorrow, or next week, but I am saying that with the things that we see (signs) in our daily lives, the evidence is showing that we are in terminal velocity. Now by signs, I'm not saying prophecy or anything to that nature, but I'm suggesting the season example I used before. We know winter is approaching because the temps are dropping and leaves are changing. We can't say when the snow will fly, or how much we'll get, but we know it's coming.

Blue: Ignorance is bliss only to the ignorant. You are pretty well anchored in your atheism I believe you said, and that's fine. My duty is not to change your mind. My duty is to carry you in prayer to the one who can change your mind, and I'm doing that every day. I will say that from MY experience, the harder the nut the more force it takes to crack it. Translation: it may take something very hurtfull, or drastic, or even catastrophic to get your attention. I hope and pray that isn't the case. I have also tried to use my own experiences as a way of demonstrating who I was before, and who I am now, in hopes that some would see the difference and become interested.

As for TDJ's morbid curiosity, I view myself as someone who cares and serves and chooses to demonstrate the love of Jesus by my actions. The only difference here is that we are not in direct contact, and so all we have is these little typed discussions. So if I am willing to step out in this environment and put my faith out there, and endure the venom that comes at times, then that's a choice I've made. By your "tone" (as much as one can determine by this inaccurate form of communication) I assume that you and Joe imagine that I need a sandwich board and that I should be standing on a corner yelling Jesus is coming. So be it, consider this the corner!

TDJ, I just saw your other question about His arrival in our time. Let me say that from knowing Scripture, from reading as much as I can, and from hearing, and learning, and watching, I can see now more than ever, how close it is. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying the rapture is coming in the next four years. I will not even go so far as to say that Obama is the anti-christ, because no one knows until he establishes himself. But I can see the seasons, and I'm doing my best to reach out and share what I know through my own research, what many of you do not know because you've chosen to walk away, or just don't care.

Here is one prophecy that is still being debated but still rings true to Scripture and that revolves around Israel. There is much to sift through here, but if you are truly interested, then you'll have what you need. http://www.anunseenworld.com/bibleprophecy.html

As I said, I can not give you a date, and for me to do so removes any validity to my character, but what I am and have been trying to do is point you to Jesus. To use a word picture, it's like me asking to you to put on this life jacket because I believe the boats going to sink. I can't say when, but I've seen the water in the bilge, and the signs that we're taking on more water, so I'm doing my best to interupt the party, in order to save a few.

As with anything else, you have the freedom to reject my opinions, but you've stepped into this room for your own reasoning, morbid curiosity I suppose, and so you knew what you were getting when you walked in the door. I'm not trying to be cryptic as you claim, but I'm trying to communicate as best as I know how. If something strikes you as cryptic, then bring it to my attention, and let me see if I can describe it or say it another way. As far as I know, my PM is working okay, give that a shot.

Whatever happens, whenever it happens, just know that I'm praying and trusting the results to God, through Jesus.