I don't remember if I'm conflating things here, but I think a forum member had similar experiences with the Torrance Academy. Since that time Rickson, Royce and others left to start their own schools; leaving Rorian.

As for "certified" gracie black belts, Rorian has actually only promoted a couple of americans to black belt. Thus there are not individuals teaching with an incomplete body of knowledge.

Didn't Rorion award Ed O'Neill (of "Married... With Children" fame) a GJJ black belt? I think there's a video of the ceremony floating around on YouTube. Or was this a "Gracie Combatives" belt?

Most of what was said is bang on but it's worth noting the exceptions.

Don't assume that because there name is Gracie they suck, just the same as you shouldn't assume because their name is Gracie they're brilliant.

While there are alot of problems, especially with Helio's side, there are some top players amongst the Gracies. Rickson and Royler are/were great BJJ players as is Renzo, who despite being from Helio's side is very open and willing to cross train and develop and doesn't try to keep it in the family. There are good guys on Helio's side, just a shame Rorion is a douche. Also Kron is on a tear and it's well worth keeping an eye on what he does at the Mundials now he's at black belt. OK it's very much in the family but he's a product of Torrance and he's a submission machine.

Didn't Rorion award Ed O'Neill (of "Married... With Children" fame) a GJJ black belt? I think there's a video of the ceremony floating around on YouTube. Or was this a "Gracie Combatives" belt?

Several years ago I read a post on nhbgear which mentioned that Rorion hadn't promoted any american to black belt. Conservatively then, Al would make it still less than half a dozen. Less than half a dozen from one of the longest open (longest open?) bjj schools in the country.

Originally Posted by ShrekBJJ

Most of what was said is bang on but it's worth noting the exceptions.

Don't assume that because there name is Gracie they suck, just the same as you shouldn't assume because their name is Gracie they're brilliant.

While there are alot of problems, especially with Helio's side, there are some top players amongst the Gracies. Rickson and Royler are/were great BJJ players as is Renzo, who despite being from Helio's side is very open and willing to cross train and develop and doesn't try to keep it in the family. There are good guys on Helio's side, just a shame Rorion is a douche. Also Kron is on a tear and it's well worth keeping an eye on what he does at the Mundials now he's at black belt. OK it's very much in the family but he's a product of Torrance and he's a submission machine.

Yeah, I wasn't counting Kron or other family members. It is again worth noting that most of the hearsay I've posted is in regards to Rorion. Royler in particular is supposed to be fabulously nice. Renzo too (he's on the other side of the family though).

The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris