Welcome

Welcome to the POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

The SNL open was great. I am glad they did that, instead of going with a regular cold open. I am still wondering what Samuel L Jackson's motivation was for dropping the f-bomb and then saying bullshit. We were wondering if he was making some point that we worry more about curse words on TV, rather than worry about more serious issues. But, that's a discussion for another day.

Say what??? Are you getting enough sleep Ted -- you are starting to babble.................?

I had the TV off for most of the weekend, I jsut couldnt take it anymore. But ahve it on in the background as I work....and once again am in tears with the pictures of the children. I've actually turned it off again.

But I saw a piece about Jack Pinto, who idolized Victor Cruz of the NY Giants. Cruz heard of this and called the parents, and then during the game sunday had jacks name on his gloves, and then wrote Jack Pinto this is for you RIP on his game shoes.

Say what??? Are you getting enough sleep Ted -- you are starting to babble.................?

You must have just watched the opening of SNL and not the whole show. Samuel L Jackson was in a skit and said fuck and then said bullshit. The show obviously has no delay. I was saying we were puzzled why he did that--whether he was making some statement how people get bent out of shape over curse words, when we should focus on more important things. Or, whether he just had a case of Tourette's that night.

Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened. One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today. Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy". I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that. Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this.

Logged

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world". "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

While obviously I find this incident very distressing, I do wish people paid attention to when several years ago 22 children were killed in Philadelphia. Sure, that was over the course of the entire year but still...

Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened. One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today. Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy". I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that. Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this.

Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened. One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today. Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy". I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that. Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this.

I've feel the same. I have not cried this much since mom died, and it's rare that I cry at all. I thought maybe it was just because I have been feeling flu'ish... but I've realized it's the magnitude of it all.

I saw a lady when I was at dinner tonight crying at the scenes from the funeral. It's true what Obama said, Our hearts are broken.

The gun access and availability issues aside, all the fine folks on here who have been so knowledgeable and passionate about mental health issues have been right on. Andy Velez, Tim Horn, killfoile, Ann, Jonathan and others have all been well versed on this issue. We think nothing of going to the doctor for a physical ailment but we as a society have too long scorned those that need help with mental issues. We have either chided them or denigrated them or made them feel inferior in ways that are most unfair. We all need a boost or someone to talk to and feel better in this most important and vital matter of our well being.

These children were gunned down in cold blood, it is sick beyond comprehension. Little Noah, for one, was shot ELEVEN times!

Logged

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world". "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

While obviously I find this incident very distressing, I do wish people paid attention to when several years ago 22 children were killed in Philadelphia. Sure, that was over the course of the entire year but still...

When was that? I tried to find something on the subject without success. Some articles about the Atlanta children murders from 79-81 came up (an event that, sadly, has been largely forgotten), but nothing about Philadelphia.

Logged

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened. One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today. Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy". I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that. Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this.

I'm with Jody on this .

Yesterday I drove past the Church in Fairfield , Connecticut where the first funeral was taking place . It hit me like a ton of bricks . I had to pull over a mile down the road then cried my eyeballs out The hundreds of people with white balloons put me over the edge . OMG ! Everyone is so upset , Newtown / Sandy Hook is only 20 minutes away and some of these families have Fairfield roots . Last night they had a candle light vigil at the town green across from the church . It is a very sad event . Carl

I posted a youtube clip in the What to do about guns thread. It was an ABC News experiment after Virginia Tech, where they armed students with fake guns to see what would happen if a gunman came into the room. My friend from Harvard messaged me to say the video is gone.

I can't find it by Google. Not sure if abc pulled it or can't access on mobile. Y'all help? He goes to Harvard, he should be able to find. He is using it for some project. It was on 2020 and called If I only had my gun or a gun. Aired in 2009?

It has been nothing but speculation when it comes to this man and the story behind him. I saw a "news" story yesterday claiming that his mother owned all those weapons because she believed the world was coming to an end. It's as if some of these media outlets just want to get readers/viewers by stirring up sensationalism.

For all we know we may never really learn the "why" of this tragedy.

Logged

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

It has been nothing but speculation when it comes to this man and the story behind him. I saw a "news" story yesterday claiming that his mother owned all those weapons because she believed the world was coming to an end. It's as if some of these media outlets just want to get readers/viewers by stirring up sensationalism.

For all we know we may never really learn the "why" of this tragedy.

While it's true this may not be the reason, I believe we will have a good idea of the motive as the State Police Lt. who does all the briefings keeps saying they have "very good evidence" about motive. I dont think the State Police would speak in those terms on national TV if it were not the case.

I read (anonymously) the gun violence thread. I just posted this as a comment on another person's thread on G+. For what it's worth -I thought I share this rambling idea of where we are as far as a society in this time.

Many years ago, when I was of an attractive appearance and age I saw a movie called Grand Canyon (Kevin Kline was in it). The movie itself is a disappointing and a throw-away, but it intimated something great. There was a scene, a montage of sorts, when all these people who survived bad things happening to them, or at least events causing them pause and just seemed to stop for a moment and be lost in thought - and you, the viewer were given this sense of elation of feeling that the movie was going to go there - to dwell upon that which is wrong in society (whatever the wrong is) and show that we have to do something different.

Instead the movie, which was just a movie after all had a cliche ending and immediately backed away from groundbreaking to banal.

The point of my little expositional comment?

There is no easy "cause" to what's going on. Please understand that I hate guns and feel that the 2nd amendment as invoked today is a tragedy and, frankly, I would be in favor of revoking it - but I, in my gut, feel it's more than guns.

Yes - they are the most easily fingered, painfully destructive mechanism/device/cause of our pain - but there is so much more going on and bubbling beneath the surface.

We are no longer happy.

We don't strive for better ideals and goals that are attainable for ourselves. We strive for crassness and mockery of the best of us that can be summed up in 30 second ads.

We hate. Outwardly. In actions.

If I have one wish. It would be that the Mayans were right. Let our world end on December 21st. Not THE world, but ours. Our world of global crassness and global impatience. Global distrust and global isolationism - and when I say global it is that it happens worldwide but the practice is most often in the most intimate and localized of situations.

In other words - this is not about a mechanical instrument that enables humans to kill each other with ease, but a pyschological devastation of our sense of self as humans that has aided us in destroying one another 1 on 1 to mass murder - and I hope/dream/wish in a Mayan prophecy where our "world" ends - and a new begins - one with us loving each other and the circumstances we all coexist within together a little more broadly and equitably as brothers and sisters. but

I am swinging more towards being angry at her, there is some sympathy but my anger outweighs it.

'Tis easy to be angry at her with the help of 20/20 hindsight.

I have no idea how her son was, day to day prior to that awful day. I have no idea what their relationship was like. So, yeah I have lots of questions, but I will assume that she did the best she could, until I find out differently.

I have no idea how her son was, day to day prior to that awful day. I have no idea what their relationship was like. So, yeah I have lots of questions, but I will assume that she did the best she could, until I find out differently.

M

It's a bad situation -- single mother and all of that. And, of course, it's possible she had all of her firearms totally locked up.

I am waiting for more info. Having said that, I do wonder why she would have these weapons with a kid who by all accounts was very troubled. It is being reported she took him target shooting to teach him responsibility. And, if she had them locked up, I hope we find out how he got access. It has been reported she was shot in bed. If this is true, I don't see how he could have held a knife to her throat until she gave him the key. I suppose there will be no way to know what really happened. How could we ever really know? And, we are finding out many of the reports are not true.

Even if she was grossly negligent, she doesn't deserve to be in the same category as her son. I have a hard time looking at him as someone to be hated. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could do something like this. To hate someone for doing something awful would require the person to have all their faculties and still be just evil, for me.

How could we ever really know? And, we are finding out many of the reports are not true.

The reporting sucks, because it's "in the moment" and was dependent on social media (as in the erroneous fingering of Ryan, not Adam, Lanza initially). News media rushes to judgement which is why I try and source my information from a variety of sources, and NOT CNN/NBC/ABC/FOX. Assuredly the forensic scientists will make the final more accurate report, which may not show up for weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if the father divorced her because she went totally over the edge with this Doomsday Prepper stuff. He's a VP of a big financial firm in Stamford, not a wacko. Same with the older son.

I have a hard time looking at him as someone to be hated. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could do something like this. To hate someone for doing something awful would require the person to have all their faculties and still be just evil, for me.

That's the perennial question.

Personally I find this reference to "evil" unsettling and unsatisfactory. People use it at times like this to help make sense of a criminal act or a criminal mind, and of horrors that defy sense, logic - defy our "normal" peoples' understanding of what's possible in this world.

If evil means "profound immorality" or shockingly bad or harmful acts, then yeah evil describes these sociopaths and their actions.

When I hear the word evil in such situations I often quickly get images and references and stories that are based on religion, literature, and so much popular culture flooding my brain. And then it gets murky.

Its not that I won't let myself believe in meanings based on the supernatural. But I don't want of rely on timeless and spaceless forces (good, evil, etc) (beyond our control...), to explain, at the expense of rational explanations and rational responses and rational prevention of such "evil" in the world.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 12:46:38 PM by mecch »

Logged

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

I am waiting for more info. Having said that, I do wonder why she would have these weapons with a kid who by all accounts was very troubled. It is being reported she took him target shooting to teach him responsibility. And, if she had them locked up, I hope we find out how he got access. It has been reported she was shot in bed. If this is true, I don't see how he could have held a knife to her throat until she gave him the key. I suppose there will be no way to know what really happened. How could we ever really know? And, we are finding out many of the reports are not true.

Even if she was grossly negligent, she doesn't deserve to be in the same category as her son. I have a hard time looking at him as someone to be hated. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could do something like this. To hate someone for doing something awful would require the person to have all their faculties and still be just evil, for me.

And just why is it so important for the public to know all this?? To be able to have someone to "blame" for his actions? I am sure whatever the situation in that home was -- this woman did not think her son would shoot her and then shoot up an elementary school. HE DID IT -- for whatever reason, HE DID IT -- NOT HIS MOTHER. Trying to demonize her, will not bring back those 20 children. I am sure that there are thousands of parents who target shoot with their children -- with no mass murders resulting.We go on about the media feeding us "bad info" in 24/7 news cycles -- yet WE are consuming it -- that is why they are reporting it. We feel like we must know every minute detail. Her relationship with her son is none of my business (or yours). Mourn the dead, including her, but try to leave the hindsight outrage in check. I'm sure that everyone here would love to be able to go back in time and make some different decisions -- but we can't.

I have been moved to tears on more than one occasion watching the coverage of what happened to these family's . Many times the family's that have lost children face the camera and send condolences to the shooters family . If they can do this during their time of grief and loss is it too much to expect a little of the same for those of us trying to come to terms with what happened that are merely commenters .

We as voters and society carry as much blame for these terrible events if you really want to start pointing fingers .

when obama gave that very moving speech, he read the names of all victims, except nancy lanza. interpret that however you want. with the media hungry for every imagined detail to feed its 24 hour news cycle, there will be plenty of scape goats in the days to come.

And just why is it so important for the public to know all this?? To be able to have someone to "blame" for his actions? I am sure whatever the situation in that home was -- this woman did not think her son would shoot her and then shoot up an elementary school. HE DID IT -- for whatever reason, HE DID IT -- NOT HIS MOTHER. Trying to demonize her, will not bring back those 20 children. I am sure that there are thousands of parents who target shoot with their children -- with no mass murders resulting.We go on about the media feeding us "bad info" in 24/7 news cycles -- yet WE are consuming it -- that is why they are reporting it. We feel like we must know every minute detail. Her relationship with her son is none of my business (or yours). Mourn the dead, including her, but try to leave the hindsight outrage in check. I'm sure that everyone here would love to be able to go back in time and make some different decisions -- but we can't.

M

I disagree. It would be helpful, and a reminder to many, that you need to keep your guns locked up regardless, but especially if you live with someone who is troubled. I have to be careful to not take this in a gun control direction. I know I would like to know how he got access to these weapons. If he over-powered her and forced her to hand over the key or combination, then I think many who hate her would have more understanding. If she just left them laying around, when family friends were reporting she was deeply concerned with him and feeling like she was losing him, then I think her negligence (if that proves to be true) would help in the conversation how to deal with guns in a house with someone mentally ill.

I wonder if he was influence by others that he might of met on the web. The way he'd destroyed his computer was as if he was hiding information not only of his web sites of interest but maybe messages from people leading him into this direction. Hopefully there is enough data left for investigators to have more of an idea of what made him shoot people. I suspect it may have to do with the Mayan Calender or some other End-of-the World scenario. Possible he thought he was saving them from a horrible death, although it is interesting that he did not leave a note

I have been moved to tears on more than one occasion watching the coverage of what happened to these family's . Many times the family's that have lost children face the camera and send condolences to the shooters family . If they can do this during their time of grief and loss is it too much to expect a little of the same for those of us trying to come to terms with what happened that are merely commenters .

We as voters and society carry as much blame for these terrible events if you really want to start pointing fingers .

Thank you Jeff.

Thanks also to Bocker, post #82.

To all those who are blaming his mother, why?..this is one of those sad situations where we may never really know the truth about why her son did what he did, you don't know how she felt about her son, or how he felt towards her, it's so easy for you to blame those who can't defend themselves isn't it!

In sadness for ALL who died that day and the families they left behind.

To all those who are blaming his mother, why?..this is one of those sad situations where we may never really know the truth about why her son did what he did, you don't know how she felt about her son, or how he felt towards her, it's so easy for you to blame those who can't defend themselves isn't it!

In sadness for ALL who died that day and the families they left behind.

Jan

I was basing my blame on the unconfirmed report that she took him to gun ranges to shoot the automatic weapons.

Now, I may have jumped the gun since the report is unconfirmed. But if it is confirmed, then I absolutely will blame her for that aspect of it. IF she knew he had some difficulties, which may be evidenced by her petitioning court for guardianship (another unconfirmed) and then took him to practice shooting then I blame her for that. yes I do.

I guess I will ahve to wait for final report to direct blame and anger.

btw, today I did Random act of kindness #1 - I let an elderly lady go before me in line at the post office. That one was for Noah.

I disagree. It would be helpful, and a reminder to many, that you need to keep your guns locked up regardless, but especially if you live with someone who is troubled. I have to be careful to not take this in a gun control direction. I know I would like to know how he got access to these weapons. If he over-powered her and forced her to hand over the key or combination, then I think many who hate her would have more understanding. If she just left them laying around, when family friends were reporting she was deeply concerned with him and feeling like she was losing him, then I think her negligence (if that proves to be true) would help in the conversation how to deal with guns in a house with someone mentally ill.

Ted,Come on now -- with you obsessive television news watching, I find it hard to believe that YOU want to know so that OTHERS will have a conversation. It doesn't make sense. Do you think people who own guns don't know they should be locked up?? You can sit here and judge this woman all you want, but you will never know what went on between her and her son that day or all the days before that one. You are simply trying to find some blame to place -- at least that is what it looks like from reading your posts. She owned guns, that makes her bad is how I'm reading it and you want PROOF so that you can blame and hate her.Anyone who is a parent knows that despite your best efforts, things can go awry -- that doesn't make it the parent's fault. She deserves to rest in peace.

Once you have parented a "troubled" person and did so perfectly -- then, maybe, you can sit in judgment.

I was basing my blame on the unconfirmed report that she took him to gun ranges to shoot the automatic weapons.

Now, I may have jumped the gun since the report is unconfirmed. But if it is confirmed, then I absolutely will blame her for that aspect of it. IF she knew he had some difficulties, which may be evidenced by her petitioning court for guardianship (another unconfirmed) and then took him to practice shooting then I blame her for that. yes I do.

I guess I will ahve to wait for final report to direct blame and anger.

btw, today I did Random act of kindness #1 - I let an elderly lady go before me in line at the post office. That one was for Noah.

Are there things you wish you could go back in time and undo as you look backwards at parenting decisions? I know that I do -- but I can't. The woman is dead -- at her son's hands, how people can try and blame her is simply behind my ability to comprehend. Be angry at HIM, he shot his mother, he shot those teachers and he shot all those children. I will not ever buy into the notion of "People don't kill people -- their mother does."

Are there things you wish you could go back in time and undo as you look backwards at parenting decisions? I know that I do -- but I can't. The woman is dead -- at her son's hands, how people can try and blame her is simply behind my ability to comprehend. Be angry at HIM, he shot his mother, he shot those teachers and he shot all those children. I will not ever buy into the notion of "People don't kill people -- their mother does."