To me it seems that the backup device (Icy Box) section would benefit to have a bit of description on what terms it is a viable option as a backup device.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, there's no straightforward way to make complete WHS backup to this kind of eSata device. Personal folders and shared folders can be backed up by WHS itself, but the client pc backup database cannot. There is an add-on called BDBB to accomplish the backup database backup, but the backup destination needs to be a single volume, not 4 separate volumes that the Icy Box offers. If the client pc backup database size is smaller than a single drive in Icy Box, then it will work, but with bigger backup database there wouldn't be a volume large enough for the backup to succeed.

I don't know how typical it is that the pc backup database size is greater than 2 TB; in my case it's around 5-6 TB. Moving data from client pc to personal folder in WHS (to minimize backup db size) may not be practical either, as data transfer rate between a pc and a WHS is not very high.

It would be unwise to try to make a complete WHS system backup; I doubt there's any way to do it w/off the shelf solutions. We expressed early on in that section that DATA should be backed up, not the WHS system. Our approach to any server is to try and centralize the data so it is readily shared on the network (and easily backed up) rather that leaving it in client PCs, which can then utilize more secure settings.

Thanks for the info on BDBB. This looks like an invaluable addition to WHS for those seeking double insurance on all PCs in their network. Info in the latest version of BDBB, v 1.0.33 is at MediaSmartServer.net.

Your 5-6 TB of data could be migrated to a server in large batches, over a gigabit network at night. We've seen 100mb/s sustained transfer rate between WHS and 1 or 2 PCs in our network; even with such network speed, it would certainly take a while to transfer 5-6 TB (something like 15~18 hrs?) but spread out over a week or longer, it wouldn't be that onerous a task.

This is exactly the kind of computer that I have (same concept and performance/consumer range just a few years old, and similar configuration - lots of hdds) and want to build (when I finally upgrade...upcoming technologies make tough for me to make the step)...

A question...is the structure of the case somewhat affected by the tight cords pulling the sides inwards?Although this elastic suspension system is an excellent and financially most efficient solution, with the above concern in mind - and if it was my main rig - I might have opted for a "no-vibes" style drive cage...

Although a careful and methodic fellow, I would also be wary when adding, removing hdds with those tension cords that might tend to flip the drive as they are removed...would go with no-vibes for that reason too...at least out of the case, it's easier to handle

Glad you enjoyed the article (the mid tower build section anyway). To answer the highlighted question, no, the case is unaffected. Only the flimisiest case would be affect by this. The tension in the cords should be modest. It is best to use many cords for each HDD. We used only two loops, front and back, for expedience... but I recommend 3 or even 4, with modest tension in each loop. You have to experiment to figure out what works best with your combination of cord, technique & tension, and HDD weight. I suggest using an old retired drive to play around with.

It would be unwise to try to make a complete WHS system backup; I doubt there's any way to do it w/off the shelf solutions. We expressed early on in that section that DATA should be backed up, not the WHS system.

If you set up your server with a separate small system partition (as you should), you can simply image it. Problem solved.The system shouldn't be significantly changed often if at all after it's set up and configured so there's no need to update the image regularly.Windows should have some kind of rescue disk to restore the MBR or whatnot to get the system to boot after restoring the partition to an empty drive. Some imaging software backs this stuff as well anyway.

How about drilling a bunch of 1/4" holes in the front panel? If you drill them from the outside of the panel, inward then the observer would not see any chips from the drill bit going through and/or the use of a chamfering tool to remove the chips.

You could then use simple black spray paint (again from the inside) to color the aluminum back to black.

I just don't get the usefulness of keeping all these drives running in order to have all media files available at once. Do most of the drives spin down when not needed?

I like to have all of my uncompressed music available at once, as each song is just a few minutes. But movies? I could just plug in a different drive into my computer's hot-swap slot. I don't even do that since all of my movies are Blu-ray.

I understand having network storage available. Multiple computers can have fast SSD storage and loads of network file storage available for a very quiet machine.

I understand needing the storage. I just don't understand running so many drives at once. What home application is this for?

I understand the reason for wanting quiet PCs but does it really make sense to build a server in an HTPC case with six or more hard drives? Why not build a server that you hide away somewhere in your abode and use something like a media extender of a thin client type of PC at your TV(s)? This especially makes sense if you are going to have multiple clients throughout your house.

Four years ago I thought that hooking up a HTPC to my main TV was the ultimate solution for a PVR as well as watching/listening to digital media. But after many years and iterations I have come to the conclusion that you should build a media server that you put in an inconspicous place in your house (like a room in your basement), especially if you are using it as a PVR as you may have lots of other devices, like digital cable boxes, hanging off of it. Then buy extenders to put at your TVs as they are cheap ($150 or less), unobtrusive, totally quiet and require very little maintenance.

It is a pain in the butt to have a media server in a spot where it is not very accessible as you will often need to make changes like hard drives, video cards, fans, etc. Having such a PC out in the open makes eminent sense.

Here is what my server setup looks like, along with three digital cable boxes and two HD-PVR capture devices. Would you want all of this stuff in your living room? (Note that I run SageTV as my Media/PVR software and I have five Sage HD-200 extenders in and around my house along with various PC SageTV clients)

Living in a house, that you own, has lots of advantages. I have my WHS in the basement and I can drill whatever holes needed to run cables as needed for a faster, wired system. In WHS the HDs can be set to turn off to save power; however, the OS drive never shuts down.

Yup, I saw it on Engadget and came on here to see if anyone was talking about. I had just learned about DE from this SPCR article, and thought it was one of the cooler ideas I had heard of in a long time... especially from Microsoft! I see no reason to pursue WHS now, but I'm a Mac OS only house so that factors in a little, of course

There are a number of knowledgeable folks who actually aren't sad to see Drive Extender, in it's current implementation, dropped. It made setting up shares more difficult, data was stored in a proprietary format so it could only be read under WHS and storage used up more room than WHS V1.

Drive Extender also had nothing to do with OSX compatibility. WHS v1 works with Macs and v2 will probably be easier to set up and work better.

It appears to me that judging from these recent build guides, the case design hardly matters compared to other components. For example, I would have expected cases with the multiple front-fans and HD's sitting next to them to be noisier than cases such as P183 that has a door and padding to baffle sounds from inside the box. But this does not appear to be the case and simply running the fans slower will get equivalent or better silence from "gamer" cases. Do you agree?

It appears to me that judging from these recent build guides, the case design hardly matters compared to other components. For example, I would have expected cases with the multiple front-fans and HD's sitting next to them to be noisier than cases such as P183 that has a door and padding to baffle sounds from inside the box. But this does not appear to be the case and simply running the fans slower will get equivalent or better silence from "gamer" cases. Do you agree?

It's a complex issue.

You could reach a very different conclusion: We at SPCR have the skill & knowhow to silence just about any type of system in almost any type of case.

Case design matters, though there is no question that our very careful choices about component selection in all of them had a huge impact on the end result. The three cases for the server builds were all chosen for their capacity to hold a large number of HDDs. The Lianli and the NZXT could both be described as being pretty open, while the Silverstone GD03 is pretty closed (tho not well damped). The primary noise floor was probably the multiple drives... even though they are very quiet.

Here's my main points about your conclusion:

1) None of the cases could be likened to a P183, which has thicker, more sound-proof panels and a front door. They make a difference. My guesstimate is that using it with 6 WD Green HDDs (because that's what it can normally fit) would make it at least 2-3 dBA quieter than using the NZXT Tempest Evo with the same 6 WD Green HDDs mounted normally. 2) The increased noise potential of the 9 HHDs mounted normally in the NZXT case was avoided by the use of the custom DIY elastic cord suspension.3) All of these cases have different abilities to block or contain noise and vibration. Change the noise/vibration of the components, and the end result will change -- but not linearly. In other words, if the HDDs were 7200rpm models that were 4 dBA noisier in a group of 6, you can't expect each case/system to be simply 4 dBA louder. One may develop more of a tonal aspect in some unexpected frequency band, while another shows an unexpected 6 dBA rise because of the effect of internal cavity resonances.

Four years ago I thought that hooking up a HTPC to my main TV was the ultimate solution for a PVR as well as watching/listening to digital media. But after many years and iterations I have come to the conclusion that you should build a media server that you put in an inconspicous place in your house (like a room in your basement), especially if you are using it as a PVR as you may have lots of other devices, like digital cable boxes, hanging off of it. Then buy extenders to put at your TVs as they are cheap ($150 or less), unobtrusive, totally quiet and require very little maintenance.

I'd do this if I could but unfortunately my HTPC needs to be near to the aerial socket in my living room. Additionally, I don't think any of the extenders can interface with my HTPC running MediaPortal and access the TV EPG and set recordings. All they can do is play stored audio/video files.

I note you're running SAGE software and extenders, so I imagine that setup does allow you to access the TV features, but it's a bit too expensive for me to go that route and I've rather gotten used to MediaPortal. It's a shame there's not a common standard for accessing the TV features that could be implemented into both software and the various cheap extenders that are available.

It shows the Enermax Eco80+ 400W as 12dBA @ 200W but the Enermax Eco80+ 500W as 16dBA @ 200W. I can't see a review of the former, but usually the more powerful the PSU, the quieter it runs at higher power output, so this doesn't seem quite right.

This article isn't listed on the home page article list anymore. It was published Oct 14, 2010, so I would expect to see it listed between "SFF Gaming/File Server" (published 2010-10-19) and "WD Caviar Black 2TB & VelociRaptor 600GB" (published 2010-10-10). I found it by going to this forum and finding the link from this thread.

Useful article - I'm building a similar system using a tower case to hide in a cabinet.

However, the recommended RAM: OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Gold Low Voltage 2x2GB RAM (Part # OCZ3G1066LV4GK) is not sold in my region (Australia) that I can find (possibly withdrawn) and I don't want to have to import it if I can help it as there's now no cost benefit due to the high value of the Aussie dollar.

Useful article - I'm building a similar system using a tower case to hide in a cabinet.

However, the recommended RAM: OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Gold Low Voltage 2x2GB RAM (Part # OCZ3G1066LV4GK) is not sold in my region (Australia) that I can find (possibly withdrawn) and I don't want to have to import it if I can help it as there's now no cost benefit due to the high value of the Aussie dollar.

Is there a recommended alternative?

Thanks

Anything with 1.65V rating or lower tends to boot more reliably than the higher voltage RAM. It was the main reason for using this specific OCZ RAM. Lots of others with similar or lower voltage and higher clocks, too.

Useful article - I'm building a similar system using a tower case to hide in a cabinet.

However, the recommended RAM: OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Gold Low Voltage 2x2GB RAM (Part # OCZ3G1066LV4GK) is not sold in my region (Australia) that I can find (possibly withdrawn) and I don't want to have to import it if I can help it as there's now no cost benefit due to the high value of the Aussie dollar.

Is there a recommended alternative?

Thanks

Anything with 1.65V rating or lower tends to boot more reliably than the higher voltage RAM. It was the main reason for using this specific OCZ RAM. Lots of others with similar or lower voltage and higher clocks, too.

CPU coolerFrom the picture here http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1074-page3.htmlI'm wondering if the recently reviewed Noctua NH-C14 would fit instead of the Samurai ZZWithout the top fan, the NH-C14 is 105 mm high which should fit in the 110mm space mentioned.Width to hard disk cage is 185mm - The NH-C14 width is 140mm widthDepth of NH-C14 is 160mm and there appears to be space to the 'top' of the case to take any 'overhang'.Q1 - Would a Noctua NH-C14 fit in a Lian Li PC-Q08 case?

Width to fan cage is 300mm - From here http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1103-page3.html"The Xtreme Plus also increased the effective length of the card to 30.6 cm"Q3 - Is it possible to replace the 140mm front fan with a slimmer one so that the Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme Plus fits in the Lian Li PC-Q08? Q4 - Similar to Q2, is there enough space for the Xtreme Plus to fit at the bottom of the case?

PSUI was interested in putting in a Seasonic X400 (£120). I assume this will have enough headroom if I ever decide to 'play' and overclock the cpu and graphics card or should I go for the X460 (£140)?

Thanks for a really good guide. I was really interested in the Gamer Build V2 and recent reviews on SPCR has thrown up some questions about the Lian Li PC-Q08 case.

I'm still playing with my PC-Q08 build, but what I've done is use the Intel DH57JG mobo with a Core i5 750. The PSU is a Seasonic X460, the CPU cooler a Thermalright AXP-140 (the new one, not the old one!). I've mounted the fan on this so that it blows upwards, exhausting the air through the PSU which is mounted open-side facing inward. Graphics card is a GTX570. I've removed the hard-drive enclosure entirely, I'm going SSD + 2.5" drive which'll fit in the space underneath the optical drive. There's no fan in the top 120mm hole.

What I've discovered is that:

a) the fan-blowing-upwards config on the AXP gives a fair bit better CPU temperatures than the fan-blowing-down config (which tends to pull hot air in through the PSU I think, which then gets stuck in the case).b) the front fan doesn't really seem to do much, ramping from 0RPM to 960RPM really didn't reduce case temperatures much at all

My next fiddle about will be to remove the front fan entirely, then try a 120mm fan in the top hole, and a few other things (eg. flip the PSU and trying fan-blowing-down, though then there'd be little to no airflow through the PSU)

It's not silent yet, but then to be honest the goal with this build is quiet not silent. I would be interested if there's any viable replacement for the graphics card cooler, but I'll live if there isn't. I'm having fun fiddling though, for the first time in ages!

Thanks for the nice series on quiet builds with more aggresive performance configurations (HDD and graphics).

I want to use the info to design my own system with different components to suit my particular needs, but estimating noise levels is giving me problems since some of the data seems to be far away from classical calculations for adding noises.

EG the 9 HDD server without gaming video card in mid-tower case has <19dBA with 9 HDD and <17dB with 3 of them removed. This is implies each HDD has <10dBA.

Either my math is wrong or something non-classical is happening when you take the HDD out.

I'm still playing with my PC-Q08 build, but what I've done is use the Intel DH57JG mobo with a Core i5 750. The PSU is a Seasonic X460, the CPU cooler a Thermalright AXP-140 (the new one, not the old one!). I've mounted the fan on this so that it blows upwards, exhausting the air through the PSU which is mounted open-side facing inward. Graphics card is a GTX570. I've removed the hard-drive enclosure entirely, I'm going SSD + 2.5" drive which'll fit in the space underneath the optical drive. There's no fan in the top 120mm hole.

What I've discovered is that:

a) the fan-blowing-upwards config on the AXP gives a fair bit better CPU temperatures than the fan-blowing-down config (which tends to pull hot air in through the PSU I think, which then gets stuck in the case).b) the front fan doesn't really seem to do much, ramping from 0RPM to 960RPM really didn't reduce case temperatures much at all

My next fiddle about will be to remove the front fan entirely, then try a 120mm fan in the top hole, and a few other things (eg. flip the PSU and trying fan-blowing-down, though then there'd be little to no airflow through the PSU)

It's not silent yet, but then to be honest the goal with this build is quiet not silent. I would be interested if there's any viable replacement for the graphics card cooler, but I'll live if there isn't. I'm having fun fiddling though, for the first time in ages!

I was hoping to put in the Noctua NH-C14 - width 140mm. You've put in the Thermalright AXP-140 - width 147mm so the Noctua should fit widthwise. Q1 - Can you let me know how much clearance there is above and below the Thermalright AXP-140 (depth 145mm) so I can work out if the Noctua NH-C14 (depth 166mm) will fit?

Thanks for the feedback about the fanless Seasonic X460. I was wondering if there would be enough airflow for it to work in the PC-Q08, so it looks like there is .

I'm going to put in 4 x WD20EARS which will use the hard drive enclosure. The front fan might be useful in keeping the drives cool in my case.

I'm a bit worried if the hard drive enclosure blocks the power leads coming from the PSU. Q2 - Does the hard drive enclosure block the power leads from the Seasonic PSU as in here http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/ ... 8-review/2 "a 160mm long PSU will foul the internal drive cages"?

I was thinking about those two but I wasn't quite sure on the space left at the bottom of the cage. Ht of Icy Gelid 52mm, Ht of Arctic_Cooling_Accelero_Xtreme_Plus 56mm. I would be interested if you came back with some measurements to see if they would fit.

Q1 - Can you let me know how much clearance there is above and below the Thermalright AXP-140 (depth 145mm) so I can work out if the Noctua NH-C14 (depth 166mm) will fit?

Between the top of the fan and the base of the PSU there's 18mm clearance. Bear in mind though that the stock fan clips might protrude above the fan by quite a bit so you might have to find a different method of securing the fan. In any case it doesn't sound like the Noctua would fit (21mm taller than the AXP).

Yes I think you might struggle here. In partcular the main ATX power cable is quite inflexible.

To be brutally honest I think the fanless Seasonic is wasted in my build. Even with the GTX570 BIOS modded so the minimum fan speed is 30% it makes enough noise to mask any decent fanned PSU. I wouldn't get too hung up on using a fanless one, there are cheaper options that are smaller and will probably do an equally good job.

Quote:

I was thinking about those two but I wasn't quite sure on the space left at the bottom of the cage. Ht of Icy Gelid 52mm, Ht of Arctic_Cooling_Accelero_Xtreme_Plus 56mm. I would be interested if you came back with some measurements to see if they would fit.

I don't think either will fit. I measure the distance from the graphics card PCB to the base of the case to be 46mm. This doesn't account for the few mm that the GPU sits above the PCB of course.

ignore the dual-GPU monster, it looks like there's at least one company working on an improved cooler for the GTX570. That might well be quite quiet if you took the plastic shroud off, and it's still only two slots.

Q1 - Can you let me know how much clearance there is above and below the Thermalright AXP-140 (depth 145mm) so I can work out if the Noctua NH-C14 (depth 166mm) will fit?

Between the top of the fan and the base of the PSU there's 18mm clearance. Bear in mind though that the stock fan clips might protrude above the fan by quite a bit so you might have to find a different method of securing the fan. In any case it doesn't sound like the Noctua would fit (21mm taller than the AXP).

I've checked that the AXP-140 has a height of 70.2mm + 25mm fan = 95.2mm. + 18mm to PSU gives a total clearance of 110.2mm. This is the same clearance that SPCR came up with in their case review http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1074-page3.htmlThe Noctua NH-C14 has a height of 103mm with the top fan removed so it should fit with 7mm clearance Thanks for the confirmation.

Yes I think you might struggle here. In partcular the main ATX power cable is quite inflexible.

To be brutally honest I think the fanless Seasonic is wasted in my build. Even with the GTX570 BIOS modded so the minimum fan speed is 30% it makes enough noise to mask any decent fanned PSU. I wouldn't get too hung up on using a fanless one, there are cheaper options that are smaller and will probably do an equally good job.

Question - In your opinion, would you say it was 'just difficult' or 'impossible' to use the seasonic with the hard disk enclosures?

nutball wrote:

Quote:

I was thinking about those two but I wasn't quite sure on the space left at the bottom of the cage. Ht of Icy Gelid 52mm, Ht of Arctic_Cooling_Accelero_Xtreme_Plus 56mm. I would be interested if you came back with some measurements to see if they would fit.

I don't think either will fit. I measure the distance from the graphics card PCB to the base of the case to be 46mm. This doesn't account for the few mm that the GPU sits above the PCB of course.

Thanks. Based on that, I think will settle for the Asus DirectCU 6850.

Thanks for the nice series on quiet builds with more aggresive performance configurations (HDD and graphics).

I want to use the info to design my own system with different components to suit my particular needs, but estimating noise levels is giving me problems since some of the data seems to be far away from classical calculations for adding noises.

EG the 9 HDD server without gaming video card in mid-tower case has <19dBA with 9 HDD and <17dB with 3 of them removed. This is implies each HDD has <10dBA.

Either my math is wrong or something non-classical is happening when you take the HDD out.

Can someone give me some insight here pls?

OK, I found a quote on another build within the 70plus pages of build options that says what I said, more or less.-----------------------------------------------------Effect of the Number of HDDs - Much of the impressively quiet performance can be attributed directly to the sterling acoustic properties of the Western Digital Green Power hard drives. It's hard to imagine any other stack of six HDDs measuring just 18 dBA@1m. To explore the acoustic summing effect, we tried listening and measuring SPL with different numbers of WD GP drives. Removing a single drive, so that the total number of active drives was five, resulted in virtually no difference in perceived or measured noise. With two drives removed, the SPL@1m dropped by only 1 dBA, a barely noticeable difference. When just three drives were running, the difference was a total drop of 2 dBA, which is a surprisingly small improvement and less than the theoretical 3 dB difference expected. (Editor's Note: The A-weighting probably had an impact due to the relatively high proportion of lower frequencies in the total SPL of the HDD. In effect, our system with three hard drives on a wooden table was acoustically indistinguishable from the same system with six hard drives, but sitting on foam. The latter, in some subtle way, may actually be more benign to hear, perhaps because it is slightly less tonal in the lower frequency range.------------------Interesting that dropping out 3 HDD on two different systems gave the same 2dBA noise drop even though the noise levels of the two systems were different enough not to expect the same level of drop.

So I guess you cannot really predict noise levels of your system build, just select components and use good technique to minimize noise, and you get what you get. Only exception may be minor deviations from one of these builds eg adding an 11dBA fan should make no meaningful noise increase.

Any chance of telling us what noise increase would be if the front fans RPMs were raised enough to give similar temp drop? Maybe this noise delta would be less than the 2dBA penalty of opening the door.

Thanks for the nice series on quiet builds with more aggresive performance configurations (HDD and graphics).

I want to use the info to design my own system with different components to suit my particular needs, but estimating noise levels is giving me problems since some of the data seems to be far away from classical calculations for adding noises.

EG the 9 HDD server without gaming video card in mid-tower case has <19dBA with 9 HDD and <17dB with 3 of them removed. This is implies each HDD has <10dBA.

Either my math is wrong or something non-classical is happening when you take the HDD out.

Can someone give me some insight here pls?

OK, I found a quote on another build within the 70plus pages of build options that says what I said, more or less.-----------------------------------------------------Effect of the Number of HDDs - Much of the impressively quiet performance can be attributed directly to the sterling acoustic properties of the Western Digital Green Power hard drives. It's hard to imagine any other stack of six HDDs measuring just 18 dBA@1m. To explore the acoustic summing effect, we tried listening and measuring SPL with different numbers of WD GP drives. Removing a single drive, so that the total number of active drives was five, resulted in virtually no difference in perceived or measured noise. With two drives removed, the SPL@1m dropped by only 1 dBA, a barely noticeable difference. When just three drives were running, the difference was a total drop of 2 dBA, which is a surprisingly small improvement and less than the theoretical 3 dB difference expected. (Editor's Note: The A-weighting probably had an impact due to the relatively high proportion of lower frequencies in the total SPL of the HDD. In effect, our system with three hard drives on a wooden table was acoustically indistinguishable from the same system with six hard drives, but sitting on foam. The latter, in some subtle way, may actually be more benign to hear, perhaps because it is slightly less tonal in the lower frequency range.------------------Interesting that dropping out 3 HDD on two different systems gave the same 2dBA noise drop even though the noise levels of the two systems were different enough not to expect the same level of drop.

So I guess you cannot really predict noise levels of your system build, just select components and use good technique to minimize noise, and you get what you get. Only exception may be minor deviations from one of these builds eg adding an 11dBA fan should make no meaningful noise increase.

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