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Or it could be, ya know, that people are trying to take the series a bit too seriously. Recall, we've had combat waitresses, giant crickets, Kyon in a cat costume, and Haruhi taking over an RPG world. I'm really interested more for the ride than the actual destination. I don't really care if the total displacement is zero so long as the velocity and acceleration were enjoyable.

"Or it could be, ya know, that people are trying to take the series a bit too seriously..."

as if it's wrong to expect a plot to end someday? haruhi isn't school rumble.

i'm perfectly fine with a 'ride,' as i stated in the last post. azumanga daioh is a well done 'for the ride' series; it has no plot, it's all about the characters. haruhi is not a 'ride' series, it has a plot and continuously focuses on it without ever actually doing anything with it, which naturally detracts from the experience if you care at all about the plot.

i am simply frustrated with what i perceive to be relatively good writing that was spoiled by the writer's lack of desire to end things. if the author provides something to take seriously(there are two main plot lines), it's only natural to expect it to go somewhere. haruhi for sure has its juvenile points, as you said, but that doesn't excuse tanigawa from a literary standpoint(this is a novel, not azumanga daioh, right?), because he focuses too much on the main plot. please don't look down on people just because you're not looking for the same thing they are, especially if both are there(in this case, 'both' would be humor/adventure(i guess?) and plot line).

trust me, i recognize haruhi's good points as much as you do; i'm still reading it, right? it's just that i enjoy talking about and analyzing stories. hope i'm not begrudged that.

I just can't seem to agree with your statement that Haruhi is not a "ride" series. Considering how just about every other novel volume is composed of short stories that barely push the plot but do flesh out the characters, I'm more inclined to see this as a character-driven series. Many of the events going on can be attributed directly to the actions of the SOS Brigade members; it was only in a few of the later stories that things actually started happening as a result of someone foreign to the group. Perhaps the central story plot hasn't moved much, but you can't deny the fact that each of the characters have undergone noticable development. It appears to me that the focus is on the characters, not the epic state of reality or something. Come on, even volume 4 was really nothing more than immense character development. Many of the stories could have worked as stand-alones. I'm curious to know, what exactly do you think is the central plot that must be resolved right away?

Actually, regarding your claim that this is a novel series, I think it's really only true up to a point. Oftentimes, it feels more like a collection of short stories somewhat linked to one another. Both can be excellent, but it's pretty tricky to try to pidgeonhole a series like this into only one standard by which to judge it. Haruhi really doesn't resemble many other novel series that I've read. Then again, I'm not surprised to see it subverting the genre or something...

I'm not really anxious for anything to end just yet; you on the other hand seem to demand that something gets resolved in this volume. Why is that? It's not like there's a limit placed on how many volumes this series is allowed to run for. Last time I checked, they're only at the beginning of their second year of high school. Earlier, you listed 5 different plot threads that could be used to advance the plot. For each of them, I'm personally having trouble seeing either 1) how they can advance the plot, or 2) why they're necessary to advance the plot.

I don't profess to know what Tanigawa is planning, or where this story will go. But to me, it still seems rather presumptuous to be making such statements when the work itself is definitely still incomplete anyway. This isn't Harry Potter, where we all knew that 7 years will be covered in 7 volumes. There's nothing wrong with expecting a plot to end, but I'm confused as to why you feel you must set a deadline for it. I'm not trying to look down on you right now; I just want to understand your logic, and offer my comments as to why my thinking is different.

Finally, I don't really think having two separate story endings means it has to be taken seriously. I know I sure didn't take that live action CLUE movie seriously, lol. It sounds quite like something bizarre that I'd expect from Miss Suzumiya. From the Author's Notes of the earlier novels, it sounds like Tanigawa is having fun trying out different styles. I'd personally withhold judgment until I see the whole thing for myself. I've learned that going by second-hand information is a terrible way to judge anything.

get ready for a whale of a post =/ maybe i shouldn't post this. anyways, it's so big that i decided to split up the parts that were taking up the most space so as not to create an eyesore. heh, i've probably written a lot of things i don't even believe.

"I'm not trying to look down on you right now"

well, your first sentence struck of condescension(the part i quoted in my previous post), when really thinking about things like this is just a way of having fun for me--as contradictory as it may seem, since i'm criticizing his writing. i don't take any offense now, though. anyways...

as a disclaimer, while you're reading this please try to remember that i am judging Haruhi as a series of novels, not as a collection of short stories. if I was judging tanigawa's writing as a collection of short stories, and not from an overall view(although they are written as short stories, since they all clearly connect together this is not inappropriate), things would be very different.

some of your questions can be answered by reading the long post where i posted a spoiler of the last page of vol9.

clarification of plot and the issue i take with tani's writing

Spoiler:

first, i'll clarify what i mean when i say the "two main plots"(i did this in the aforementioned post, but i'll do it here anyways):
1. the nature of haruhi's relation to kyon(ie why is he essential to haruhi? presumably romance; in other words, the romance plot.)
2. the who/what/when/why/how of haruhi's powers and what she will do with them(if she ever finds out), if that's clear

the fact that it is not all resolved is not my complaint. my complaint is that it(those two main plot points) have barely changed from when it started. yes, there is a great deal of character development--but it is not a character driven story, because those developments have no relevance or impact(thus far, as far as i can tell) on the main plotlines. they are side stories. it's great that yuki can feel emotions, but if that doesn't have any meaning in terms of Haruhi as a story(vs a collection of short stories) until it actually has an effect on the plot. the ratio of haruhi's plot advancement(virtually 0) vs the number of side stories and length of the novels, for how often tanigawa refers back to the main plot, is far too high to be considered a great story. no plot advancement+frequent reference to main plot+tons of short stories which do not contribute=bad overall.

various points on the haruhi plot

Spoiler:

throughout the novels, not just recently, tanigawa drops hints that kyon cares for haruhi, and vice versa, but he's really just beating around the bush with it. and he has been doing so since the first novel, even the first chapter(in any story, when people introduce the possibility of a romantic relationship and it is not utterly crushed, it becomes a conflict--it happens to be one of haruhi's main conflicts--i'd argue it started with people suggesting a "special relationship" between the two and saying things like "kyon always did like weird girls").

examples: haruhi tying mikuru's ponytail in the baseball chapter. kyon freaking out when he discovers haruhi may not exist. haruhi's suspicion and anger at kyon during snow mountain syndrome regarding yuki. etc, etc, etc.
This constant display of jealousy/affection hasn't gone anywhere for 8 novels(the kiss and the scenes leading up to it, in the first novel, are both arguably the best part of the series and the last development of this conflict) and yet it's so prevalent in the novels. hinthinthinthinthinthinthinthint is all tanigawa is doing. even the valentine's story ended up as nothing. (un?)fortunately, we can't actually say "nothing" until the end since we don't know what he will use to evoke the plot movement, but tanigawa has nevertheless had many points at which he could have levered major change(and chose not to, sometimes in the face of realism).

the story behind tanabata, how haruhi got her powers, why she has them, and pretty much everything about kyon is all a mystery. it's been so long since the thing was touched other than volume 4's "Oh, Haruhi's powers can be transferred." that it seems like they're just a plot device to get action started now. and even so, tanigawa constantly hints that kyon is somehow linked to haruhi's powers(both through Koizumi's observations and time travelling), but doesn't tell us why. this plot line has better development than the romance one, however; while minor and not actually revealing any truths besides "kyon was john smith, who helped haruhi trace a symbol"(to which i say, "what of it? if you think about it, the only thing that tells us is that haruhi is closely tied to kyon, which we SORT OF got wind of from the fact that kyon is the only one who can stop her from destroying fucking reality itself"), the time travelling events were developments in this area.

my ideas on plot and why i am disappointed with haruhi's plot dragging out

Spoiler:

if there's a reason i want him to wrap it up it's because i feel it's already gone on long enough. volume 9 is 300 pages. i imagine the other volumes are of similar length. I am of the opinion that both character AND plot dynamism are necessary for a novel's story to be good. after 9 volumes of that length something other than "kyon is john smith" should happen.

As to why something major should happen soon(or should have happened already...), I'll try to make an analogy. A good plot functions as a rollercoaster; you go up, you go down, you go up, you go down, and you go UP AND DOWN REALLY FAST at the end, both emotionally and in your feeling of understanding of what's going on. A good plot should change often and leave you guessing all the time; the more actively engaged your brain is in thinking about the plot, the better. I'm sure you've heard this analogy before, but if I have to explain it more that's fine. Anyhow, with every novel that nothing actually happens Tanigawa makes his overall roller coaster longer without really adding more bumps--therefore instead of "up, down, up, down, updownupdownUPDOWN," it becomes "upppppp... downnnnnnnnnnnnn... uppppppp... etc.". In other words, the mind's sense of the overall plot is dulled the longer the story is dragged out. The plot is actually fairly static since volume 1, so it's more like it went up(or up and down several times in that one volume, it was great) and hasn't moved much.

Having said that(i hope it made sense... doubt it though), if i offered you two stories:
1. a story with an explosive plot where things that matter HAPPEN(i.e. both plot and characters are very dynamic)
2. a story with a plot where a bunch of pointless, unrelated to plot side-stories happen, intermittent with empty chapters and hints that focus on the main plot but don't actually have anything to do with it, right?
wouldn't you agree 1 is more interesting? 2. is, of course, haruhi, and while the side stories are definitely interesting they are just that: side stories. so it's really like a collection of stories. if i were to judge haruhi as a collection of stories rather than a novel series, i might be saying something very different right now.

that pretty much sums up the reasons for my dissatisfaction, i believe. i hope i'm not repeating myself too much here. don't get me wrong(after all that i hope you dont =p), i don't desire a swift ending to everything because it's dragged on too long. that wouldn't be good. if he were to start a chain of events that ended up ending things, even if it took 2-3 novels, that would be fine. but the long space of nothingness would leave a sour taste in my mouth in terms of plot analysis(although the side/short/character specific stories are nice). the novel name "the shock of suzumiya haruhi" has me hoping.

get ready for a whale of a post =/ maybe i shouldn't post this. anyways, it's so big that i decided to split up the parts that were taking up the most space so as not to create an eyesore. heh, i've probably written a lot of things i don't even believe.

"I'm not trying to look down on you right now"

well, your first sentence struck of condescension(the part i quoted in my previous post), when really thinking about things like this is just a way of having fun for me--as contradictory as it may seem, since i'm criticizing his writing. i don't take any offense now, though. anyways...

as a disclaimer, while you're reading this please try to remember that i am judging Haruhi as a series of novels, not as a collection of short stories. if I was judging tanigawa's writing as a collection of short stories, and not from an overall view(although they are written as short stories, since they all clearly connect together this is not inappropriate), things would be very different.

some of your questions can be answered by reading the long post where i posted a spoiler of the last page of vol9.

clarification of plot and the issue i take with tani's writing

Spoiler:

first, i'll clarify what i mean when i say the "two main plots"(i did this in the aforementioned post, but i'll do it here anyways):
1. the nature of haruhi's relation to kyon(ie why is he essential to haruhi? presumably romance; in other words, the romance plot.)
2. the who/what/when/why/how of haruhi's powers and what she will do with them(if she ever finds out), if that's clear

the fact that it is not all resolved is not my complaint. my complaint is that it(those two main plot points) have barely changed from when it started. yes, there is a great deal of character development--but it is not a character driven story, because those developments have no relevance or impact(thus far, as far as i can tell) on the main plotlines. they are side stories. it's great that yuki can feel emotions, but if that doesn't have any meaning in terms of Haruhi as a story(vs a collection of short stories) until it actually has an effect on the plot. the ratio of haruhi's plot advancement(virtually 0) vs the number of side stories and length of the novels, for how often tanigawa refers back to the main plot, is far too high to be considered a great story. no plot advancement+frequent reference to main plot+tons of short stories which do not contribute=bad overall.

various points on the haruhi plot

Spoiler:

throughout the novels, not just recently, tanigawa drops hints that kyon cares for haruhi, and vice versa, but he's really just beating around the bush with it. and he has been doing so since the first novel, even the first chapter(in any story, when people introduce the possibility of a romantic relationship and it is not utterly crushed, it becomes a conflict--it happens to be one of haruhi's main conflicts--i'd argue it started with people suggesting a "special relationship" between the two and saying things like "kyon always did like weird girls").

examples: haruhi tying mikuru's ponytail in the baseball chapter. kyon freaking out when he discovers haruhi may not exist. haruhi's suspicion and anger at kyon during snow mountain syndrome regarding yuki. etc, etc, etc.
This constant display of jealousy/affection hasn't gone anywhere for 8 novels(the kiss and the scenes leading up to it, in the first novel, are both arguably the best part of the series and the last development of this conflict) and yet it's so prevalent in the novels. hinthinthinthinthinthinthinthint is all tanigawa is doing. even the valentine's story ended up as nothing. (un?)fortunately, we can't actually say "nothing" until the end since we don't know what he will use to evoke the plot movement, but tanigawa has nevertheless had many points at which he could have levered major change(and chose not to, sometimes in the face of realism).

the story behind tanabata, how haruhi got her powers, why she has them, and pretty much everything about kyon is all a mystery. it's been so long since the thing was touched other than volume 4's "Oh, Haruhi's powers can be transferred." that it seems like they're just a plot device to get action started now. and even so, tanigawa constantly hints that kyon is somehow linked to haruhi's powers(both through Koizumi's observations and time travelling), but doesn't tell us why. this plot line has better development than the romance one, however; while minor and not actually revealing any truths besides "kyon was john smith, who helped haruhi trace a symbol"(to which i say, "what of it? if you think about it, the only thing that tells us is that haruhi is closely tied to kyon, which we SORT OF got wind of from the fact that kyon is the only one who can stop her from destroying fucking reality itself"), the time travelling events were developments in this area.

my ideas on plot and why i am disappointed with haruhi's plot dragging out

Spoiler:

if there's a reason i want him to wrap it up it's because i feel it's already gone on long enough. volume 9 is 300 pages. i imagine the other volumes are of similar length. I am of the opinion that both character AND plot dynamism are necessary for a novel's story to be good. after 9 volumes of that length something other than "kyon is john smith" should happen.

As to why something major should happen soon(or should have happened already...), I'll try to make an analogy. A good plot functions as a rollercoaster; you go up, you go down, you go up, you go down, and you go UP AND DOWN REALLY FAST at the end, both emotionally and in your feeling of understanding of what's going on. A good plot should change often and leave you guessing all the time; the more actively engaged your brain is in thinking about the plot, the better. I'm sure you've heard this analogy before, but if I have to explain it more that's fine. Anyhow, with every novel that nothing actually happens Tanigawa makes his overall roller coaster longer without really adding more bumps--therefore instead of "up, down, up, down, updownupdownUPDOWN," it becomes "upppppp... downnnnnnnnnnnnn... uppppppp... etc.". In other words, the mind's sense of the overall plot is dulled the longer the story is dragged out. The plot is actually fairly static since volume 1, so it's more like it went up(or up and down several times in that one volume, it was great) and hasn't moved much.

Having said that(i hope it made sense... doubt it though), if i offered you two stories:
1. a story with an explosive plot where things that matter HAPPEN(i.e. both plot and characters are very dynamic)
2. a story with a plot where a bunch of pointless, unrelated to plot side-stories happen, intermittent with empty chapters and hints that focus on the main plot but don't actually have anything to do with it, right?
wouldn't you agree 1 is more interesting? 2. is, of course, haruhi, and while the side stories are definitely interesting they are just that: side stories. so it's really like a collection of stories. if i were to judge haruhi as a collection of stories rather than a novel series, i might be saying something very different right now.

that pretty much sums up the reasons for my dissatisfaction, i believe. i hope i'm not repeating myself too much here. don't get me wrong(after all that i hope you dont =p), i don't desire a swift ending to everything because it's dragged on too long. that wouldn't be good. if he were to start a chain of events that ended up ending things, even if it took 2-3 novels, that would be fine. but the long space of nothingness would leave a sour taste in my mouth in terms of plot analysis(although the side/short/character specific stories are nice). the novel name "the shock of suzumiya haruhi" has me hoping.

You go on about how you don't like the lack of development in what you consider "the main plot," but you ignore what I (and I'm sure others) feel are the best things about the Haruhi series, and that's the development of the peripheral characters and the fleshing out of the Haruhiverse. Why else would volumes 4 and 7 be so popular when there was literally no development between Kyon and Haruhi, and little exploration into Haruhi's powers (besides their "borrowing" in volume 4)? While those things may not necessarily make up "the main plot," there's no denying they're central to the main storyline, and also very enjoyable.

And from what I've heard of volume 9, we're getting even more of that kind of development, which I for one am happy about. See, the great thing about centering the story around the development of the characters and the universe, instead of the plot, is that in this case the resolution of the plot will mean the resolution of the series, but you can develop the characters and the universe until the cows come home. I mean, after you hook up Kyon and Haruhi, and after she finds out about her powers (or we find out that Kyon's the one with the powers, if you subscribe to that school of thought), then that's it. I mean, what could be next after that?

My point is, if everything were to be based upon Haruhi's powers, I'm sure that many would find the series too mundane and stereotypical, or at the very least, I'm sure I would. The main thing I like about Haruhi is it's general craziness, a theme that has been clear throughout all 8 novels. From MELANCHOLY's setup of the SOS Briagde to DISAPPEARANCE's 'omgwtf?' plot to INTRIGUES's weird orders, everything that happened was general wackiness. I would rather see a novel series that actually bothers to develope its side characters (Nagato in DISAPPEARANCE, Asahina-san in INTRIGUES, and other misc short stories i/e: Nagato in Charmed and Shadow) than focus purely on a single plotline.

Right now it may seem that Tanigawa hasn't explained much about HAruhi's powers, but who knows, maybe this alternate SOS Brigade thing will play a role in that? I can imagine Sasaki explaining to Kyon how she obtained her powers, and how similar her powers are to Haruhi, or something of teh sort. INTRIGUES didn't seem important at first, but that was until DISSOCIATION came along and we realized that the whole point of INTRIGUES was to introduce us to the 'other SOS', like the Sneering Bastard for example. Snow Mountain Syndrome seemed nothing more than an adventure flick to go along with Lone Island Syndrome, until INTRIGUES explained that the MSCE were behind it all and thus introducing a new faction into play. I for one love these kind of 'foreshadowings' and so far Haruhi has yet to disappoint me. Who knows, maybe we'll be hearing more about the Titanium-Caessium Rod (it was briefly mentioned in Shadow after all) or the Data lifeforms mentioned in Shadow.

I believe that Tanigawa knows what he's doing. He probably won't just forget about these elements he introduced, as evident with the various reusing of characters (the bespectacled kid from Melancholy of Mikuru was reused in INTRIGUES, Kimidori was reused waaaay later in Editor) so far. I'm confident that he'll be able to tie up all these loose ends to the main plot (of which we're not really sure what it is, actually) while at the same time maintaining the same sense of quirkiness the Haruhi novels have had over the span of 8 volumes so far.

you might be misunderstanding me, and you're all taking my comments a little out of proportion. i acknowledged there in several places that the side stories are a good part of the series, and the character interactions are half the reason i read the series. however, without plot dynamism, that doesn't make it a good -story-: it makes it a good collection of stories with good characters. as i said, i was attempting to analyze his writing based on the story as a novel, which needs both plot and character dynamism--one of the aspects of the series that seriously sours the rest of it for me.

if you didn't notice, i tried to split the series into two things(which you have also followed): side stories, and the primary conflicts. i am entirely pleased with the side stories. it would be fine if that was all there were. but it's not. tanigawa created an interesting, seemingly forward-moving plot in volume 1--and it hasn't moved(much) since. THAT IS ALL I TAKE ISSUE WITH. but it's a souring point of his writing for me. even in the anime, it seemed like the plot may go somewhere(with either of the endings, it seemed like it CONFIRMED "this relationship is -going somewhere-").

holycow, a plot focused around haruhi's powers(that's what haruhi is focused around, along with haruhixkyon; notice haruhixkyon and this conflict drive the subplots, not the other way around, unfortunately) doesn't mean there can't be subplots tied to the main plot. currently there are just subplots and none of them have actually been tied to the main plot(yukixkyon was just excused away by kyon instead of fueling a change in haruhi and kyon's relationship, for example). as you said, if he does tie them all up in the end, i will be very happy--but i think it will turn out that it would be better if he had been doing it all along, keeping things fresh.

i am not trashing haruhi overall. i've said it and i'll say it again, i read it and enjoy most parts of it. i am only criticizing one part of the series which prevents the it from being really great like the first novel, and that may be why it seems like i'm 'ignoring' everything else.

tanigawa can write as many short stories interspersed in the novel as he desires. i don't care, i like reading them, and they do good things for the character dynamics. but that isn't an excuse to cause the plot dynamism to stagnate(although the short stories have nice plots themselves, this often doesn't actually contribute to the main vein of the story--he is clearly a capable writer, but as i've said before i think something gets in his way of moving the series toward a conclusion at all).

anyways, im a little surprised you issue is taken with me saying the development of the primary plot is subpar, while the development of other things is great, which means that while there are interesting subplots and the main characters are dynamic, the plot is not. this doesn't mean END IT NOW. this doesn't mean he should delete the side stories. it means he should have done something with the plot; not necessarily end it, just develop it/flesh it out along the way. although i would think he could have had some conclusions after 9 novels =p that's all i mean.

but i think i will leave things at that, because this is taking up way too much of my time. i'm going to try to stick to translation spoilers =(

P.S: a conclusion of the plot lines doesn't mean an end to haruhi. i'm sure most of you would agree, based on your arguments, that tanigawa could still make haruhi a fun series to read even if things behind haruhi's powers were revealed and kyon+haruhi became official(or was stamped out). i'm sure you can imagine how Disappearance could have happened even if those things had been cleared up, for example.

So, in short, you just don't like the fact that Tanigawa's pacing of the main plot is too slow for you, isn't it? And that is why you think it isn't such a great story as a whole, while the rest of us have absolutely no problems with the pacing whatsoever, is that right?

yeah, ascaloth, i have a lot of trouble with doing that(both keeping it simple and not being stupid). although, i wouldn't call it a just a personal gripe with the story rather than an objective analysis of the situation(some people simply don't care because they aren't reading the story for the element i'm describing, even though it exists prominently, or maybe their standards are lower than mine). if you don't have a problem with the pacing it's probably because you don't care about it, since the pacing has been almost nonexistent since volume 1.

considering the story's audience, comparing it to great writing is unfair, so i suppose it fits its niche. i just enjoy doing it because it sort of helps me define what a quality story is, and i think it'd be nice if tanigawa would step it up. it i'm not really expecting it, but better quality can never hurt, right?

anyways, i'm going to translate a small portion(2-3 pages) of a dialogue between koizumi and kyon, talking about haruhi, sasaki, and closed spaces. i'll probably edit it into here.

yeah, ascaloth, i have a lot of trouble with doing that(both keeping it simple and not being stupid). although, i wouldn't call it a just a personal gripe with the story rather than an objective analysis of the situation(some people simply don't care because they aren't reading the story for the element i'm describing, even though it exists prominently, or maybe their standards are lower than mine).

considering the story's audience, comparing it to great writing is unfair, so i suppose it fits its niche. i just enjoy doing it because it sort of helps me define what a quality story is, and i think it'd be nice if tanigawa would step it up. it i'm not really expecting it, but better quality can never hurt, right?

anyways, i'm going to translate a small portion(2-3 pages) of a dialogue between koizumi and kyon, talking about haruhi, sasaki, and closed spaces. i'll probably edit it into here.

...now you're the one who's looking down on other people. Not only that, you're imposing arbitary standards on what makes a "good" story. And lastly, you're taking on a "I'm-right-because-I-say-so" attitude.

To quote Jason Miao from AoMM, "Bad times. Bad times."

Jeez. Can we just cut everything here before it blows up? Just state this is your personal opinion, and leave it at that.

Do any of you think perhaps the contents of book 9 might not be able to be fully appreciated until it is read along with book 10?

After all, I don't think book 9 ended on a cliff-hanger for the fun of it; The author must have been unable to fit both books into one volume, and that's why book 10 is to be release very soon afterwards.

"Jeez. Can we just cut everything here before it blows up? Just state this is your personal opinion, and leave it at that."

I'll admit that I can't get across to you what I am thinking, so it doesn't matter either way(it's my fault, not yours). Even if we can't come to a mutual understanding, I'd rather leave it at that than complicate things further through miscommunication(not to mention clogging up the board). I have an unfortunate talent for turning a very simple issue into a complex one.

The only thing I'd like to add is that I didn't mean 'people may have lower standards' as an insult to anyone; all I meant is that I'm hard to satisfy, it's just a character difference as far as I'm concerned. Apologies if it came out wrong.

just to try to ensure this doesn't continue, this is what i have so far:

EDIT: Volume 9 excerpt, pages 80-82. Just added more at 8:34 board time, and may add more later, but this is what I wanted to get done for now(no more coming soon):

Spoiler:

NOTE: Points I have determined need a translator's notes are marked with an asterisk(*), and notes are placed in brackets [as such] at the bottom of the text. The conversation starts with Koizumi after they had been comparing their points of view on a Brigade activity they did earlier.

"Is that what you remembered?"

"It seems there're no major difference."

Koizumi said while surveying the monitor in earnest,

"From an objective viewpoint, it was as you have described in your commentary. However, if we look at this from a subjective viewpoint, your explanation and my explanation bring forth considerable inconsistencies."

He moved those surveying eyes onto me. Those eyes bother me.

"Well, this is the problem. Awhile ago, I told you that recently the frequency of the appearance of Closed Spaces has been increasing. To be accurate, the number hasn't had equal before or after Suzumiya entered high school. From the last year to this year, my the number of my part-time-job's missions, which had been on a declining trend, began to return to normal immediately after the end of Spring Break. Why would that be?"

I demanded nervously,

"What is it that you want to say?"

"It's not that I want to say it, I need to*. To come to a mutual understanding through a silent exchange would be better, but that's not possible.
It's related to cause and effect. In this case, the cause part consists of something that happened on the final day of Spring Break. The terms "Closed Space" and "Shinjin" would be inscribed under effects. Well then, what does this mean? This is the question I would pose to you."

"..."

I wrapped myself in silence ala Nagato. My head felt like it was in bits and pieces.

Koizumi, whose face revealed about as much as a primitive mask dug up from the Joumon era, made a smile with an incomprehensible meaning and said,

"From the fact that Suzumiya started a surge in the creation of closed spaces around the same time the new semester started, we can declare that the problematic point started on the final day of Spring Break. If we think about what happened that day, we just did the usual SOS brigade activities and there were no special happenings. The only that -was- different from usual, was one a unique, irregular element that came to interfere with the Freemarket**. What was that? You should already understand."

Sasaki?

"But why? All I did was come to the usual meeting place with a classmate from middle school. How does that turn into the effector of a mental stress on Haruhi?"

Koizumi opened his mouth as if in surprise, stared at me with those surveying and now also amazed eyes, almost like when my sister saw the locust sheddings Shamisen picked up for the first time, and stayed that way for a full ten seconds.

Facing me(who had started thinking that I'd better hurry up and wave my hand in front of his face), the psychic(ESPer) Modoki*** put on a face that was harmless to both man and beast, heartily swiveled his neck like an actor, and began:

"If you ask why..."

Making exaggerated gestures while facing me,

"About the Sasaki who styles herself as your best friend, could the reason that 8 out of 10 people find their eyes attracted to her at a glance is in truth because she is a charmingly beautiful -y-o-u-n-g- -w-o-m-a-n-?"****

He said this with the voice of a cold retainer who was announcing a decision to cancel the death sentence of a foolish ruler*****.

*: [This is a very strange idiomatic-seeming sentence in the original text, but I think what I've written gets across what Koizumi said].

**: [The Freemarket Koizumi speaks of is pretty much like a garage sale market, an activity they all went and did earlier that week/day(i dont know which, it was described right before this conversation)]

***: [Don't ask me what Modoki means, I couldn't figure that out--do tell if you know]

****: [The hyphens between words are just used to signify that Koizumi stresses that point vocally.]

*****: [i was unable to find a translation for 'shigyaku', and since "gyaku" means to turn around a situation and "shi" means murder/kill/etc. I imagine this means either overruling a death sentence or murder with the purpose of overthrowing. given that koizumi is announcing the old conflict of haruhi's jealousy which hasn't come up in awhile, i'm chose the former translation.]

and yes, since both of volume 9's endings end on a cliffhanger i -hope- volume 10 will build on what volume 9 did. after all, i don't think tanigawa has ever ended a volume on a cliffhanger before.

EDIT: added the substance of text that i actually WANTED to translate at 8:34, no more coming soon. koizumi's reaction to kyon's question at the end is GREAT =) it's like he is so shocked that kyon could be so ignorant. probably pisses him off to no end if he actually has feelings for haruhi like he does in the alternate universe--but oh, i forgot, he's gay, right?

hmm, wonder if he is homosexual in the real world and yuki made him straight in the other world in an attempt to get haruhi away from kyon =p

i'm not sure if sasaki had powers to begin with. i believe she does. my statement that they believe she is the godlike being is pretty much a direct quote, however(the person(tachibana) literally says they think that sasaki, NOT haruhi, is the godlike existence), so chances are either she already does have them or she is a person who is capable of receiving them(vol4 nagato style). sasaki, however, is not ignorant of the 'alternate brigade's' purpose.

i have not heard of a slider yet, and i am of the opinion that it is probably just a misunderstanding and no slider exists in volume 9.

i believe everyone but Haruhi knows of their existence. at the very least, Kyon does, and Koizumi knows about sasaki, so I presume that the other brigade members know what's up, although they may not know that the other brigade is trying to get Kyon to cooperate with them.

Spoiler:

Perhaps, given the ESPers fangirly reaction before, they think that Haruhi's powers really originate from Kyon, so if they get him to move to their group the powers will move to Sasaki.

Perhaps, given the ESPers fangirly reaction before, they think that Haruhi's powers really originate from Kyon, so if they get him to move to their group the powers will move to Sasaki.

Spoiler:

That actually makes a lot of sense, come to think of it.

I mean, my memory may be faulty as heck, but when was the time loli-Haruhi met "John Smith"?

Three years ago.

When did the IDSE observe the explosion of data, the time travellers observe the time-rift, and the ESPers realize their newborn existence?

Three years ago.

Now, let's come to the present. Specifically, let's go all the way to Volume 1. And to be more specific, let's go to Chapter 3, where Yuki explains her version of the whole story to Kyon for the first time;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagato Yuki

"I have been doing this since I was born three years ago. In the last three years, no particularly unusual elements were discovered, and things were very stable. However, recently an external factor has now appeared beside Suzumiya Haruhi that cannot be ignored."

"And that is you."

Hmmm.

Now, let's go on to Volume 4, and hear Mikuru's side of the story;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asahina Mikuru

"Three years ago we detected the occurrence of a huge time-quake. Hmm, it should be around three years before today, just when Suzumiya-san entered junior high. We were shocked when we traveled back to investigate, because we were unable to travel any further into the past."

"We came to a conclusion that there exists a massive temporal fault line, but we don't know why it only appears at that specific time frame. It's only recently that we discovered the reason...sorry, I meant recently for the age that I came from."

[...]

"You don't believe me, do you?"

"No...right, so why are you telling me this?"

"Because you have been chosen by Suzumiya-san."

Asahina turned and faced me,

"I can't go into the details. But, if I've guessed correctly, you are a very important person to Suzumiya-san. There is a reason for everything that she does."

Hmmmmmmmm.

Finally, let's see what Itsuki has to say;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koizumi Itsuki

"Since she hasn't discovered them yet, she is unable to completely utilize her powers, she could only subconsciously release them randomly. Yet for the past few months, Suzumiya-san has continuously released powers far beyond what humans can comprehend. As you well know, this resulted in Suzumiya-san having Asahina Mikuru, Nagato Yuki and even me joining her club."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Now, from the looks of it, it seems like for the past three years, Haruhi's powers hasn't exactly manifested itself very much in any way.....until recently. Or, to take Koizumi's words, "for the past few months". And when was the point of time Volume 1 takes place in?

Around several months after the start of the new semester for North High. In other words, Haruhi's powers only exhibited increased activity when she met "John Smith" (Kyon) again.

...Yeeeeeeeeeeesh. And here I was thinking that Kyon was merely the catalyst for Haruhi's powers......so now we're looking at the possibility that Haruhi isn't unique after all, that there may be other girls around like her who can act as the focus lens for world-changing power.....and that Kyon is actually the source of all that power?

In other words, Kyon NEEDS a special bond with special girls like Haruhi or Sasaki to activate his powers, huh?

Of course, this is just a theory of mine, but it makes a creepy kind of sense......gee, won't the Kyonists be jumping with glee at this one....

I mean, my memory may be faulty as heck, but when was the time loli-Haruhi met "John Smith"?

Three years ago.

When did the IDSE observe the explosion of data, the time travellers observe the time-rift, and the ESPers realize their newborn existence?

Three years ago.

Now, let's come to the present. Specifically, let's go all the way to Volume 1. And to be more specific, let's go to Chapter 3, where Yuki explains her version of the whole story to Kyon for the first time;

Hmmm.

Now, let's go on to Volume 4, and hear Mikuru's side of the story;

Hmmmmmmmm.

Finally, let's see what Itsuki has to say;

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Now, from the looks of it, it seems like for the past three years, Haruhi's powers hasn't exactly manifested itself very much in any way.....until recently. Or, to take Koizumi's words, "for the past few months". And when was the point of time Volume 1 takes place in?

Around several months after the start of the new semester for North High. In other words, Haruhi's powers only exhibited increased activity when she met "John Smith" (Kyon) again.

...Yeeeeeeeeeeesh. And here I was thinking that Kyon was merely the catalyst for Haruhi's powers......so now we're looking at the possibility that Haruhi isn't unique after all, that there may be other girls around like her who can act as the focus lens for world-changing power.....and that Kyon is actually the source of all that power?

In other words, Kyon NEEDS a special bond with special girls like Haruhi or Sasaki to activate his powers, huh?

Of course, this is just a theory of mine, but it makes a creepy kind of sense......gee, won't the Kyonists be jumping with glee at this one....

Spoiler for Kyon talk with a bit of Vol 9:

Kyon is a catalyst, or rather, he's—I can't remember the chemical term—he's a different kind of reactant. He doesn't allow the reaction to take place, as it would anyway, but he allows it to be focused, or dissipated, instead of it carrying on randomly as it was before. Heck, maybe that is a "catalyst," as I haven't studied chemistry in 15 years. What I'm saying is he's not the source of the powers. The idea that he caused the "explosion of data" or "timequake" (depending on your point of view) when he went back in time as John Smith has been debunked in a number of forums, due to the simple fact that if that was the point that it all happened, he wouldn't have been able to go back to a few minutes before then (which he and Mikuru did), as the time travelers are unable to do so. The fact that he is important to both "goddesses" so far can't be ignored, however, and neither can the effect he has on them and their generation of closed space. Although I do think it's simply that they are in love with him (like with any good harem lead) and that obviously affects their actions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtflux

. . .

I'll admit that I can't get across to you what I am thinking, so it doesn't matter either way(it's my fault, not yours). Even if we can't come to a mutual understanding, I'd rather leave it at that than complicate things further through miscommunication(not to mention clogging up the board). I have an unfortunate talent for turning a very simple issue into a complex one.

. . .

EDIT: added the substance of text that i actually WANTED to translate at 8:34, no more coming soon. koizumi's reaction to kyon's question at the end is GREAT =) it's like he is so shocked that kyon could be so ignorant. probably pisses him off to no end if he actually has feelings for haruhi like he does in the alternate universe--but oh, i forgot, he's gay, right?

hmm, wonder if he is homosexual in the real world and yuki made him straight in the other world in an attempt to get haruhi away from kyon =p

It's pretty obvious what you are thinking, as you were able to get that across with your first post. You would like the series to, if not focus more on it, at least give some development to the "Haruhi x Kyon" and the "Haruhi's Powers" threads of the story, which I freely admit hasn't been advanced much, if at all, since the beginning of the series. The problem is that most of us either don't agree (maybe we have a broader definition of what pertains to "Haruhi's Powers," for example, or are satisfied with the slow pace to their romance) or don't care (I, for one, prefer the intricate worldbuilding the author has done to the possibility of it all degenerating into a generic love story). If anyone does agree, please come forth, as I can't be wrong about my opinions, but I'll freely admit if I've assumed incorrectly about the general opinions of the audience.

And as for Itsuki being gay, that's really more a fan joke than anything. He's certainly a close talker, and the idea that he might be bi is plausible (Snow Mountain Syndrome), but it's been at least hinted at a few times that he's attracted to Haruhi in this dimension as well (although maybe dere-Yuki enhanced that a bit in the dere-verse for the reason you give) and he has remarked on Mikuru's and Haruhi's attractiveness a number of times.

kyon being some sort of key to power doesn't seem out of the question.

after all, at the very beginning of the series, after he first talked to haruhi, he said "this would be the trigger," right? although presumably, the real trigger was three years ago, we can't know what he really meant, or even if he considers the events three years ago to have happened 'before' that, if you know what i mean(although im sure he does).

i have a different theory though. the symbol haruhi had painted on the ground seems like it can be read by the IDSE and other information-related entities. it seems probable to me that what gives haruhi her powers is actually a special information-virus-thing like the one encountered in Wandering Shadow, which may have seen the symbol on Earth, answered her call by coming and attaching itself to whatever wrote it(or maybe it was simply drawn to the sign). This 'spirit' would be the source of her power. This could also explain the fact that her powers can be transferred. This may be a pretty wild theory to some of you, but hey, it explains the connection between the symbol and the fact that her powers are transferable and I don't see anything that prohibits its truth. The fact that Yuki took her powers also gives support to the theory, I think, since she's demonstrated in Wandering Shadow that she can transfer the 'spirits' from one thing to another.

vol9 ending spoiler

Spoiler:

If Suou is the one who transfers Haruhi's powers to Sasaki, that would pretty much confirm this point for me.