Tuesday, June 8, 2010

How Christians Justify Their Bigotry

“God Hates Fags.” That is a common sign that you will see when you look up any article about Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church. Fred Phelps and his group of minions are roundly criticized and condemned by “true Christians” across the country on a regular basis. However, these same “true Christians” seem to have no problem espousing the same hatred, just in different, nicer terms. They talk about the sanctity of marriage and the damage that it will do to the fabric of our country. Oh, and the children. Think of the children! Is any of this really any different than what Fred Phelps is saying? No, it isn't, and here is why it is the same exact thing: the justification that each of these groups (true Christians and Westboro Baptist Church) is the same. Both of these groups point to the Bible, specifically to Leviticus.

Leviticus is pretty clear on the subject of homosexuality. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 says that being gay is an abomination. Abomination! This is where most of the justification for being disgusted by homosexuality comes from these two verses. However, Leviticus is a book of rules. So if you are going to go back to the Old Testament and start pulling out rules like those against gays, then you have to fallow them all. If you believe that God wrote the damned book, then you have to follow everything that is written in it. No allegories, no miscommunication, no mistranslations, and no wiggle room. So lets take a look at what else good ol' Leviticus has to say about how we should live.

Starting in Leviticus 6, we begin to get the list of stuff we can't do. Don't deceive your neighbor, don't steal, don't lie, and don't take lost property. I can live with that. Now on to Leviticus 7. Eating fat or blood is forbidden and will result in excommunication (Lev. 7: 22-27). So if you have ever eaten sausage or German food, you are cut off from the people.

Interested in knowing what animals you can't eat? Camels. Not sure I would eat a camel, but I can't say I have had the chance. A coney. This is an animal I had to look up. I don't think they exist in the States, so we should be safe with that one. A rabbit. Come on! Have you ever eaten rabbit? It's awesome! Pigs. The staple meat of the South. If you have ever eaten bacon, pork chops, pork rinds, livermush, ribs, or BBQ, then you, my friend, are unclean. Not only are you not allowed to eat these animals, but you can't even touch their carcasses. It's an abomination.

Seafood is OK, as long as it has both scales and fins. Have you ever eaten shrimp, scallops, oysters, clams, muscles, lobster, or crab? Say no and I will call you a liar. You are an abomination on two counts. The people in the bible have obviously never had Crawfish Etouffee. You can't eat owls, herons, ospreys, or bats. I don't think I would argue that one too much. No four-legged or flying insects, except for grasshoppers, katydids, crickets, or locusts. Obviously, those must be tasty. Nothing that creeps on the ground. That includes, rats, lizards, and weasels. I hope all of this has made you hungry.

You know what else is unclean? Women. When women have their period, they are unclean. When women give birth, they are unclean. Women are actually unclean longer if they give birth to a girl verses giving birth to a boy.

Then we get into common sense things, like don't rub all over someone who has an oozing, puss-filled sore, rash, infection, or any other malady. Anything covered in mildew is bad and should be burned. So, the next time you get some mildew in your shower, burn the house down. The Bible is unclear on what we should do if we find mildew on plastic though. I wonder how they didn't see that coming?

Emissions from the body are also unclean. This includes spit, urine, feces, semen, blood, vomit, and I guess water from boils. Again, women are gross. Men can't sleep in the same bed or sit in the same seat as a woman who is having her period. Because, you know, icky.

Now comes the fun stuff: Sex. You can't have incest relations (something I don't think I will ever have to worry about). But that is to say close incest relations, such as mother, father, brother, sister, half-sister, half-brother, aunts, uncles, grandparents, grandchildren, or children. Cousins are OK! If your dad gets married to another woman, you can't have sex with her either. No sex with a woman and her daughter. It doesn't seem to take a stand on any other threesomes, foursomes, or orgies. So that's good news. No gay sex. No bestiality.

You know what else you can't do? Cut your hair or beard, plant two different kinds of seeds in your garden, or wear clothes from two different kinds of material.

Take a wild guess at what the punishment is for committing any of these “sins”. You guessed it. Death. Atonement for the lesser sins just involves killing animals and rubbing blood everywhere. Sounds wonderful.

So, the next time you condemn homosexuality “cause the Bible tells me so”, remember, you aren't living up to the Bible yourself. Now, you can say what most Christians say. “Oh, we have the New Testament. The Old Testament is just so... old.” However, if you are going to use the laws of Leviticus to condemn homosexuality, then you have got to apply them all, to everyone, everywhere, all of the time. Or, you could join us in the 21st century and mind your own damned business.

Hey Will and Hannah this is the trol from the other day. Come on and tell me your story. Why post all this stuff to show your an atheist. Did you have faith at one point and something turned you away or your family raised you to believe this way.

In response to Anonymous....why do you think Will and Hannah are just "posting all this stuff to show that they are an atheist"? I feel everyone deserves a voice even if you happen to disagree with it. I can answer from experience of knowing many atheists that yes they did have faith once and turned away due to the hyprocacy of the church. I myself am an agnostic and have never had faith however it was not due to family turning me away or a terrible experience at church. I was allowed to make my decision growing up. I have always felt in tune with myself and believed in myself rather than a non-existant deity in the sky. Why do you feel that you have a right to judge others and their belief systems? I think that is what is wrong with our society. So many people have such little tolerance for belief systems outside of their paradigm.

imajica21: In my experience that's a hallmark of Christians----they cry that everyone else should "respect" their beliefs (by also believing in them) but then refuse to respect any worldview that is different from their own, even going so far as to deny that that person even really believes those things.

It reminds me of when I was a Christian, I was always told that people who weren't Christians, sinful, evil people who were doing the bad stuff and having all the fun---they weren't actually having fun; they were lying.

If someone wasn't a true Bible-believing Christian, and they said they were happy/content/normal/just livin' life/enjoyed hedonism, they were actually lying, and were in fact miserable, lonely, and freaking out and praying to god to fix their miserable lives. If someone said they didn't believe in god, they were a liar---they actually hated god, and argued with him and cursed him.

And for the love of fucking Zeus---the internet is a big place. There are websites devoted to everything from knitting sweaters for gerbils to girls getting their faces shit on and this guy has a problem with a website that runs news stories from an atheist perspective?

I'm not judging at all I'm trying to understand the situation you guys are coming from and now I do. I honestly don't believe that someone can be an athiest or agnostic because when push comes to shove you'll always have even if it's just a thread of faith. But maybe if you have been so burnt by the church or some religious right maybe you can be so turned off that you stop believing all together. Plenty of hypocrisy out there. I understand why you have the web site it just seems like you are the same as the religious extremist only your at the other end. If you have no faith then why post comments about stuff you don't care about anyway. It would be all about you, run a muck burn everything in your path right?

Anonymous said: "It would be all about you, run a muck burn everything in your path right?"

Actually, I'm a bleedin' heart liberal, and as such I DO care about people other than myself, and I care about morality. I think all people have the right to certain things as human beings, and that we should try to help each other achieve those things.

We're not the same as religious extremists. For one, we don't try to interfere in other peoples' lives and tell them what to do. We don't engage in or condone violence in any measure. We don't think our political enemies will be tortured for all eternity, and take pleasure in the thought.

I am somewhat confused, but it's good to know we stand for many of the same things. I would have thought being without faith then anything goes. I don't see how human rights and morality have any place in an atheist view. If we answer to know one and nothing exist outside of this life then you should condone violence and hate everything and everyone. I don't know why you would bother, but it's great that you have those views. Jesus gave one commandment love one another, if you take pleasure in hate, violence well then your not christian period. The only reason to share this faith is to help everyone in the after life that a christian believes in. Not to judge and keep out, but help everyone in. I am sorry for bothering you guys I did stumble on this site. I have never really understood or spoken to an atheist so it's interesting. Thanks for the responses.

Actually, I don't think having no faith means anything goes, not at all. In fact, I think we as humans are social creatures who naturally gravitate towards one another; and if we don't want to live alone and miserable, we have to figure out how to cooperate with each other. I think most things go from there.

Personally, I've always had a really strong conscience, and whenever I get down about the world and worried that there's too many greedy assholes who don't care about other people, I remind myself that I care, and surely there must be other people like me. So in other words, there's an innate sense in me to want to do right, even though I don't believe that god or anyone will reward me for it, OR punish me if I don't---but I still want to do right. I think (hope) there's a lot of people like that. From there, we talk to each and use reason to figure out what our laws should be and how to best protect each other. I don't want my stuff stolen, so I don't steal. That seems to work for most people.

Then I would say God gave you that strong conscience, but I know you disagree. How about since you do right, go for the reward, what if by chance God is real then you get the added bonus. Nothing wrong with that right?

For one, if we're talking about the Christian god, he's described as a baby-murdering jealous lunatic. If we're talking about Allah, same things and worse apply there. There's a bunch of other gods too, so I guess it depends on which one you mean.

Second, there's a lot of things that I like that certain gods tell me I can't do. The reasons for not being able to do those things are stupid and meaningless. So fuck them. Either come up with better rules, better reasons for your rules, or you don't get worshiped.

Third, you can't prove that god even exists or that heaven or hell or real, so why live by the rules of a hateful, illogical deity who doesn't even care to prove himself before he tortures people for all eternity?

Just for a bit of background, I used to be a Christian. I believed and "loved god" with my whole heart----and he never once spoke to me, or showed himself to me, or even did anything remotely like giving me any sort of sign or shred of hope that my faith meant something. I read the bible from cover to cover, immersed myself in church and around people who were spiritual and studied the bible. I prayed to god to speak to me about what to do with my life and where to go.

Do you know what would happen? Nothing. I heard my own jumbled thoughts. I got confused wondering why whenever I asked god what to do, I heard nothing. But that didn't stop the adults in the church from hearing from god on my behalf. Church members would have god "speak to them" and they would come "share" retarded, idiotic crap with me that they felt was really awesome, enlightened words from god for me. It was always waaaaay off. Like way off.

Hannah all of your points are good ones and I also appreciate your honesty. I'm sure there are plenty of people who call themselves christians who have the same thoughts, but would never say it, they just try and live out something they don't even really believe in. Since you have read the bible then I would assume you're referring to the old testament with the baby killing and jealous God it is harsh and confusng, but then God sends Jesus so God and man could reconcile. It's not about things you can't do, God takes you as you are and your slavation is a journey worked out daily as life is. Hannah I can honestly tell you that God hasn't spoken to me either in words, but that doesn't bother me at all I have faith and purpose. As you know you can't always get help from other people way to many fakes. I do think over time God will become real to you not in hearing maybe, but in other things. Sounds like back then you were really searching that's great if you give up searching then life has little to give. Believe in God becuase he's for the down and out, the sinners the people who have no hope at all. It isn't for the powers that Christ came, he came for street people, hookers and bums. That's why I believe. Plus He needs people like you passionate, honest and able to tell it like it is.

Sorry Anonymous, but I couldn't help but notice that your unfortunate typo of "slavation" is so apropos!

What exactly is it that Jesus is supposed to do for me? I was happy how I was, and then the church (and supposedly Jesus) told me that there were things wrong with me, things that are perfectly fine the way they are. That's not love at all.

Also, don't you think the idea that someone has to die for their small, menial sin is an antiquated one that needs to be given up? For instance, over in the Middle East they commonly chopped off a hand for stealing, even impoverished people who had no choice. Don't you think that's a bit harsh for such a "sin"?

That's how I feel about the idea of Jesus in general. One, I don't need saving from anything because, while I'm not perfect, I haven't done anything even remotely worth even being arrested for, much less being marked for death and needing Jesus to come die for me. And I don't think Original Sin applies, or ever applied, because that's just one of the dumbest ideas ever. You shouldn't get punished because your great-great-grandfather did something bad.

Also, just wanted to mention a quick thing about god "speaking to people" and "signs"---all that stuff really is just people interpreting things the way they want to. You see what you want to see.

On Wednesday, I am having a partial hysterectomy. I'm quite young for the procedure, and a previous doctor tried to talk me out of it even though I need to have it done, because people don't exactly revere a woman who has no interest in becoming a mother. People like to give you shit if you say you don't want to have kids. Anyway, long story short, I had lost a password for my account on a website and had to go through the little process to reset everything. This particular site said they were going to issue me a site key, a three-word phrase with my name at the beginning and two completely random words that would be used to fix my account. The phrase? "Hannah's Impending Adoption" It made me smile, but I don't believe in signs.

Great, nothing like the typo. The church is not there to tell you what's wrong with you, well it shouldn't be. We have laws that punish for harsh sins and the smaller ones you only have to ask for forgiveness, no death. Jesus died for the ones who commited sins so severe that no one would forgive, but He will. That's great hope for some people. That story made me smile, if that's not a sign then I don't know what is. I'm kidding. Man, I wish we could have talked much sooner maybe I would have had the chance to change your mind some. Just tell me you'll keep your options open just in case.

See, that's what I'm saying----you're interpreting it as a sign I shouldn't have the surgery? It made me smile because it reiterated to me DO IT! People see what they want to see.

I hope you're not talking about keeping my options open on the surgery! That previous doctor was a self-absorbed quack who didn't care about my health as a woman, only my status as a baby factory, which is why I went to a different doc. I've been sick for 3 months now, and my torturous uterus, along with the cantaloupe-sized tumor attached to it, are coming out in TWO DAYS!! I can't wait! Only a severely unsympathetic person would tell me to continue allowing my body to deteriorate---I'll be down to 100 pounds soon---in the SLIGHT hopes that I can make it through expensive, exhaustive treatments to save a uterus that I don't ever want to house babies anyway. So that's not what you were saying, right?

So Jesus didn't die for everybody else, just child molesters and murderers and stuff? It creeps me out to think that if there were a heaven there's all these creepy child molesters strolling around like, "Oh yeah, I accepted Jesus, it's all good!" Gross.

I was kidding about the sign thing completely. Not at all, keep your options open don't settle for being an atheist that's what I was talking about. That sounds pretty serious, have you had a tumor before? Are you in good health outside of this? How about I keep you in my thoughts I'll even pray that everything goes well. You wouldn't mind that would you? Jesus did die for everyone, but if you don't think you need it just know that other people do. We don't know what happens to people to make them child molesters or murderers maybe they had horrible lives to make them this way. Redemption and forgivness is life changing not creppy or gross. Grace and mercy fall free on all of us I'm no better then anyone. I really do hope your surgery goes well and you have a complete recovery.

It's not that I'm not "keeping my options open" about religion---I just don't believe any of it. Even when I did believe, I always had a thing for science, and reason, and that just appealed to me more because it made more sense. I would ask questions all the time because so many things about the bible and what we believed wouldn't make sense, but no one ever had a good answer.

I appreciate your thoughts about my surgery (I have been in relatively good health outside of this, and hopefully will be again soon), but prayers aren't going to accomplish anything! A knowledgeable doctor, favorable conditions, and time are going to do me far more good.

I think the issue of forgiveness and redemption is more complicated than a conversation in the comments of this article can warrant, but I'll try. For this convo I am referring to serious offenses and forgiveness, not borrowing someone's shirt and spilling coffee on it. This might be a bit of a tangent to what you were talking about, but I for one don't really believe in the two things, nor that they are life changing and special. I think they CAN BE for people, but only people who find it necessary to forgive people for fucking them over. I am not one of those people.

I think people can cause themselves psychological harm by mentally rehashing angry thoughts that they have about a person; so in that sense you shouldn't dwell on people who have wronged you. But I don't think it's at all necessary to forgive people in order to live life and be healthy.

As for people who have done really bad things who say they genuinely yearn for forgiveness and redemption, I think it depends on the situation---but they don't always have pure motives. I watch a lot of prison shows; those guys are always all about some Jesus and forgiveness and big puppy dog eyes AFTER they've raped and murdered someone's daughter, who will never get a second chance. While I don't believe in cruel or unusual punishment (or even the death penalty), I don't see why the family of the victim should want to forgive the criminal, or feel some kind of great experience by it. If people do, that's fine. Again, depends on the circumstances, but not necessary.

But at the end of the day, you do something malicious for no good reason, you go to prison for the rest of your life. Game over, you lose. There is no forgiveness. Yes, I have seen stories where there was some awful hideous offense and some grand epic tale of forgiveness and redemption, but those were movies, and those stories were fake.

This is my own philosophy, not necessarily all atheists. I have been called a harsh bitch quite a few times.

It's not that harsh you're just trying to put reason in places you don't have answers for. I'm skeptical about people, science is for complete nerds, to me that is. I agree forgiveness and redemption is to complicated for comments. Remember you have been on this earth a short time there could be millions of epic tales of forgiveness that are not fake or made up you have no idea. We both have no idea, but I'm sure many, come on and I'm not talking about the puppy dog eyes. Do you mind me asking if your parents share your beliefs and your married right just curious if you get kick back from them. Growing up a sexpot that was an interesting read.

Well, science is what keeps all of us alive, gives us awesome toys to play with and things to make our lives better, so I'll stick with that.

I understand what you're talking about with forgiveness, I just don't agree. Religions based on being forgiven for your wrongdoings (like Christianity) really appeal to people because it tells them they can fuck up and not be held responsible for their actions.

I am married. No, my parents do not share my beliefs. They are conservative evangelical Christians. Sometimes they try to understand where I'm coming from, but for the most part they're not interested in too much abstract thought or conversations about philosophy. They know that I'm happier, better adjusted, and highly functioning as an atheist than I was as a Christian, though.

There have been times when it was bad, like when my mom accused me of being possessed by the devil and wouldn't let me see my sisters. I've lived independently from my parents as soon as I could move out (one of my sisters hired my mom's own lawyer and got herself emancipated at 16, but I wasn't that organized) precisely because of their beliefs. Our relationship is better only because they can't tell me what to do anymore. Because of that experience, and their beliefs, as much as I love and appreciate my parents for providing for me, I don't really care what they think of me unless it is supportive and accepting.

I'll probably share more about my experience as a Christian, I just need to organize my thoughts. Some of that stuff is still really painful to think about.

This explains a lot about the place you are coming from and the views you have. That couldn't have been easy. When you were a younger christian asking questions I think sometimes the righteous start on this crusade to make you feel more damned then you are forgiven. When you have indecision they make you more dying then living. They can take your words and twist them and then you completely loose faith in them. It's good that you can say you love your parents. Don't get mad, but at times it seems like you do have faith, you're just trying to work out all the things that have happened in your life. When I read this it sounds like you have good principles, your married not what I would expect from an atheist. Hannah my name is David by the way. Not important, but I have left many comments and should at least have a name.

I don't have faith, in fact I have the opposite of faith! I don't think faith has any value, and is actually destructive. Faith is believing things for which you have no evidence, and I think that is always horrible advice.

For instance: my husband and I have a great relationship, and I feel pretty confident that he would not risk it to cheat on me. However, it could happen. As good of a man as my husband is, I don't have faith at all that I am guaranteed fidelity.

Similarly, I don't have faith that everything in my life will work out in the end. I believe in expecting the worst and being prepared for all consequences, yet staying positive.

It just seems like and I know you'll disagree, but marrige is all about faith, hope and love. I see atheist as you said expecting the worse so why bother with things such as marrige. Is your husband an atheist? I would assume you would be different maybe from most or maybe not. Has this Will guy had a similar background, do you know? Also, I saw your photo web site, the pictures are good you have some real talent. God given maybe huh.

Well I kinda appreciate the backhand compliment, but no, not god-given----different people have different talents, and also practice has a lot to do with it. I've been taking pictures since I was 14.

Marriage is about different things for different people. This is yet another area where religious people stick their noses in other peoples' business and it's wrong. Maybe for you, marriage is about faith, hope, and love, but for me, marriage is about support, compromise, and love. We've been a committed couple for far longer than we've been married (he is an atheist also and came from a similar background), but society would not recognize our relationship as legitimate until we were married, which is not fair (also not fair for gay people who don't even get that chance.)

You are laboring under the false impression that atheists are morally bad people who favor being mean and doing bad things. Sorry, but I've met way more socially conscious, caring, moral atheists than I have Christians, because most Christians are self-absorbed and short-sighted (and also take delight in thinking they are holier than everyone else).

Why would I not bother with marriage? Do you think atheists are incapable of love?

It's not backhanded, you have real talent I'm making sure you have a sense of humor. Come on tough you have that artful eye I could practice for years and I'll never get it. I would almost say yes to your last question becuase being an atheist is all about science and reason, oh man that is so lame to me. Life is about mystery, I don't have to have every little thing explained so that life is a complete bore. You can't put science to love at all or even reason at times it's greatest mystery of all. Hannah your older now life is short go all in. If I was an atheist I would want to kill myself becuase I would have nothing to live for, nothing. However, I would be the smartest person in the world becuase I would put some kind of proven fact behind everything I did and saw. I see you as very different becuase of what you have been through it explains plenty and I'm impressed how you are able to talk about it. However I would think very few are like you and your husband. I know christians can be over the top and self-absorbed or worse, but you know they arn't real it's not about that at all.

If you want to live your life in "mystery", that's fine. I think people are free to construct whatever they want for their worldview as long as they don't harm or interfere with someone else.

Being an atheist has a lot do with science and reason, but that doesn't mean I am incapable of love. I love my husband; love is complicated, but to me a lot of it means accepting someone for who they are, caring deeply about their personal well-being, and making compromises to make the relationship work.

You say you'd want to kill yourself as an atheist because you have absolutely zero understanding of what it means to be an atheist. In a very simplified way, this is how I think life works: you're born, you get a certain lot in life, shit happens, whether you're good or bad, but if everyone cared about looking out for their neighbor, things will eventually be better for everybody. Bad things happen to good people and vice versa, but bad people do tend to eventually get theirs, just by sheer fact that as social creatures, being a dick is not good for you. I think when we die, we're dead---I've never seen any proof of an afterlife, but if there was one, I'd deal with it when I get there.

For me, being an atheist, believing that this life is final, knowing that there's no great Justice-Keeper in the sky making sure everything is fair, makes me enjoy my life MORE, and work harder to help other people, since I know god isn't going to do it. Since I'm going to end up worm dirt, I want to live a full life while I'm here, and not be a dick and have regrets about what I did with my life or how I treated the people around me.

I don't understand really, but I'm trying to get the gist of what you are saying. I don't think many atheist would share your views, but I shouldn't say that because I really don't know. I wish you had a different view of God and not as a justice-keeper or there to keep things fair, but what you have told me from your past I can see why you think that. I agree with you completely God is not going to do things for you he's not a wish giver, it's up to us help people.

How is there any other way to see god, than as a vengeful, jealous, not-so-attentive justice keeper? He doesn't offer humans any proof of his existence, but then demands that we worship him or face torture for all eternity. That doesn't sound like he's worthy of worship.

It's not hard, you just need to change your view of God. I think your view of me is insensitive dickhead I read in the one growing up a sexpot christian unless your talking about someone else and I don't think you are. I don't mind if that's how you view me becuase you don't know me really. If you talk to people that know me you might get other views. If you were my friend however then you would get to know the real me. I see how your background has lead to many different views of God, but maybe one day read on your own about what Jesus is saying use reason and draw your own conclusions. Nothing from anyone else. I think maybe you would think differently.

I did read on my own, and draw my own conclusions---that's why I'm here today.

You are included in a plethora of people who, ironically, say things about people when they don't really understand where that person is coming from. However, seeing that I used to be a Christian, I DO understand where you're coming from. I just don't agree.

And why exactly should I "change my view of god" to be one that doesn't make sense to me---just to fit in with everybody else, all of you guys who have bought into this big lie?

How could you know where I'm coming from I haven't told you anything about my life or beliefs. It's funny how people are, I'm trying to be on your side use reason, but no you have it all figured out congrats you win. Life not a contest or a science experiment. You can't figure out in a labratory why people love you. Things can change, yes you agree, so if maybe one day you have a change of heart then great. All you mention is eveybody else and I'm saying forget everybody else they have nothing to do with you and God. Nothing. I myself will never go with the crowd, I'll never fit in with everybody else, I could care less about eveyone else for God sakes except for the people who really need help.

You obviously believe in god, yes? And you believe the bible is true? And that Jesus came to earth and died for our sins? I haven't assumed at all; I'm only using your own words to figure out what it is you believe, and it's obviously what almost every other Christian I've met believes.

You're not trying to be on my side, you're trying to convince me to agree with you. All you care about is winning. So much for Jesus' love, eh? I don't really care, in the end, what you believe. I'm a contributor to this blog and you keep asking questions about atheists, so I'm answering you.

Actually, it is very easy to figure out why people love other people, unless they're the type of idiots that go around letting their dicks lead them. For example, I love my husband because he's kind, moral, hard-working, and loyal, for just a few reasons. It's not like we have some magical, unexplainable connection.

So you don't go to church? You're just a loner Christian, you all by yourself, no one that shares your beliefs around you at all?

Hannah your thoughts really are strange. Again, just becuase I've questioned you then you assume you know where I'm coming from. You don't have one clue about me. You really are going to lump me in with every christian in the world, for real. You have maybe talk to a few hundred in your life if that. What do I win, nothing right hey maybe I'm just trying to get you to think about other ideas just in case your wrong or maybe I'm just trying to understand an atheist. Please with also trying to lump me in with the letting my dick lead the way or with the dickhead crap it just makes you sound like an uneducated eighteen year old. Come on. Going to church has nothing to do with being a christian and people do share there beliefs, but they are nothing like the weirdo's you talk about, nothing. Hey I don't belong to a church and I don't go that much at all. So maybe I am a loner christian.

You didn't answer any of my questions, and you still don't make any sense. I've let this go on for zillions of comments, and on top of that you actually tried to call me uneducated. You are either not mentally stable, unable to read your own comments, willfully ignorant, or probably just a liar. I'm done, David, hope you enjoyed it!

All I've done listen and comment, now I'm ignorant, mentally not stable and a liar. Relax I didn't say you were uneducated I said you sounded like it. Can you read? I used words like dickhead and dick in third grade. You're almost thiry right. So go on with your name calling and your hate, you are just like the people in this article. I'm good, thanks for giving me a good view of atheist.

Tammy said: "Very sorry you've had such a trying past. Got a feeling the future's gonna be just as rocky."

Why would you say something like that to someone? I will never understand how it is that religious people can be so self-righteous and be such assholes at the same time. Even though David here annoyed me, I don't want him--or you, as a matter of fact--to have a bad life.

You probably don't care, because you obviously didn't read all of my comments, but I was actually miserable when I WAS A CHRISTIAN. I am happy NOW that I am not.

Now that I'm not a Christian, I am nicer, more patient, more caring, more giving, happier, in love with my husband, and surrounded by friends and family. I can't predict the future, and crappy things may happen, but I try to keep things in perspective, stay positive, and face whatever it is head on.

I know why you say hateful things like you did. There's nothing logical about your beliefs, so you can't convince me. So the only thing you can do to fight back against someone who just refuses to see things your way, is to try to hurt them by saying something that they can't possibly have an answer to: "Well, well, uh, your life is gonna be SHITTY so THERE."

Sorry Tammy. My life is pretty good, and not because I have a lot (I don't); it's because I choose to see it that way.

Hannah, I apologize if I have offended you. I never meant to do that. I'm only giving my opinion, we are entitled to speak freely I hope. I base my opinion on what I believe. You base your opinion on what you believe. Again, I apologize if you were offended. I do not want anyones life to be rocky but I honestly feel without Jesus it will be. Have a nice day.

Tammy that is nice of you. If it has the slightes hint of offending, wow Hannah is all over it. It didn't sound self-righeous it sounded like you understood and felt her frustration from her past as I did. Wish I could just change her views of christians, but again wow there has to be something there for her to be that passonite against it. Grace and mercy fall free I want everybody to know it. I'm glad you do Tammy.

I do feel her frustration & it makes me frustrated as well. God didn't intend for it to be this hard. I'm sure He is dissappointed w/how we are handling things here on earth. Each day we get the chance to do it all over again. I'm trying......

Hannah has a lot to say, it's interesting to see her point of view. I will continue to check in & see what's happening. I look forward to what's next.

Tammy, I'm not offended, I'm just pointing out to you the callousness of what you said. I rarely get offended----I like honesty, bawdiness, colorful language, dark humor and the like. I draw the line at racist stuff; that can certainly offend me.

I dunno why you "feel frustration" coming from me, but it could be because of trying to communicate with people who don't make any sense, on the internet. Now that I don't believe in god, frustration and anxiety are much less common in my life, which is a relief.

Yes Hannah, you like the bawdiness and colorful language. I picked that up early in your writings. Honesty is good one.

Tammy you said it perfectly it's a simple message, it souldn't be confusing. Trying is all we can do it's a daily walk. It's a message of great hope and love I just want everyone to be a part of it. It doesn't always work, but it sure is worth trying.

I find it interesting that with all this discussion with Christians, no one mentioned that Leviticus isn't the real reason we view homosexuality as a sin. Both Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 mention homosexuality as a sin.

If the New Testament didn't mention it at all, we would at least have to question whether the prohibitions in the Old Testament were still valid. Because we don't follow most of those Old Testament laws anymore. Christ came and showed us what really matters.