As initially reported by John Chiv (holler!), HAF’s favorite political project True North Organizing Network now has a new Director, Terry Supahan. You can read Chiv’s original post here.

This is a pretty interesting move, in THC’s opinion. First off, it seems like HAF premiere political hatchet gal and community shit stirrer Renee Saucedo is out. Terry Supahan, as a former Karuk Councilman, is an obvious attempt by Pat Cleary and HAF to give some legitimacy to their shenanigans by conflating it with the real work that True North does with the local Native Tribes. We suppose that we should be a little happy to see that HAF’s political strong-arm is at least being run by a local person. Hummmm?

Of course, as you may have guessed, THC is still not a fan of political involvement of any HAF branch. We’ve heard rumblings that True North is “reaching out” to people in Eureka now, and we even talked about that in our previous articles on HAF. No telling yet as to what they’re trying to instigate here in Eureka, but our guess is something to do with the homeless situation, judging from the protests they organized outside Eureka City Hall in September.

Granted, it may just be that True North is stepping in to fill the political leadership massive void left by the Eureka City Council on the issue of homelessness in Eureka. Hopefully one day someone will actually decide to do something on the issue, since the Atkins Crew is more than happy to pass the buck. (More on that later).

We’ve heard from more than a couple of HAF’s major donors that they are very concerned about how their hard earned money is being spent and just how much is being mis-directed to Pat’s political agenda rather than the philanthropic goals they were promised when they set up their funds.

You can bet that we’ll be sneaking out of Mom’s basement from time to time to keep an eye on the situation for all of you good folks. Pat, Jen, and company are the story that just keeps on giving, kind of like digging through an outhouse since every turd we lift reveals another underneath. Yuk!

On a semi-related side note, THC does very much enjoy the book In the Land of the Grasshopper Song, to which Mr. Supahan contributed his expertise. Albeit a dry read, it’s an interesting one – and takes place right in the stomping grounds of THC’s very own Grover Ladd. So, anyway, Terry has that going for him in our book.

But we digress. Long story short, don’t be fooled by True North’s new hire for Director – only time will tell if Cleary and his chief henchmen, Jennifer Rice will wise up and back out of the Humboldt political arena and return to HAF’s roots, and their actual mission statement of course, by actually helping people in need. It probably won’t happen but we can hope.

Nice catch MOLA. They do pull some of my posts, not court, but press releases and other news even if I scoop them and the rest. Sometimes they do that, sometimes they do not. I was told no duplication but that is selectively applied to certain media sources. This post was an original. So the questions you pose are good ones. LOCO provides a valuable resource by linking local blogs and other media sources. They also benefit from the traffic those sources provide.

Hmmmm, your anonymity is curious to me. Not that many folks know or know of Grover Ladd. If THC claims Mr. Ladd to be one of “their very own”, then you should know of Terry Supahan’s history along the Klamath-Trinity region. As well, you should know Wesley Hotelling and his book, “My LIfe with the Karooks, Miners and The Forestry. A very wonderful read from a man born and raised in that area in the late 1800’s. My curiosity asks if you have spent much time in the Northeastern regions of Humboldt County? Driven Ishi Pishi Road? Visited with Grover Ladd at the store in Denny? If so, then you might agree with me, Terry Supahan is a very upright citizen of our region. By the way, I do rather enjoy reading your blog.

Thank you ever so much for being among the our growing list of celebrity posters. We’re especially glad you enjoy our musings. Indeed, we have driven Mom’s Belvedere sedan along the road to roads end. We’ve even panned a bit of gold on the New river. Don’t rat us out though, Mom’s got no idea we know where she stashes the key and of course our neighbors are clueless to our siphoning a bit of gas to finance our regular road trips. Never heard of Wesley Hotelling but we’re searching Ebay for a cheap copy and seriously look forward to the read..

As far as Mr. Supahan is concerned the jury is out. When one lies with the devil a bit of suet often rubs off and Terry has certainly ponied up to some very shady characters. The question remains whether he can move Pat and Jennifer towards the light or if he’l be sucked into the mire. he will certainly have our totally nondenominational prayers but he’s up against some pretty foul juju.

Oh, I won’t rat you out, there is far deeper skullduggery lingering in the hills than oldtimers hotwiring the Belvedere or the Willy’s Jeep for a weekend joyride. But, you DO know Terry Supahan is male, don’t you? I think he might agree with me on that point. Ha!

Ouch! Thank you Ross for the great catch. Of course we don’t know Mr. Supahan at all which is why we refrained from expressing any opinions about him. As always we’ll hold our praise or damnation till we have some real intel. We do worry about anyone who would knowingly associate themselves with the very shady group who has infiltrated the once venerable Humboldt Area Foundation.

We do indeed miss the Store. Home of the best sandwiches on the highway. We never heard what caused the fire?

We just took a vote of everyone in the Basement. Sorry Eddie but the Hawkins Bar Store beat Tom’s by a wide margin. Tom’s was second and the Raging Creek in Willow Creek now that it’s under new ownership was third. Hummmm, with all this talk of burgers we’re feeling a road trip coming on. Hope Mom doesn’t have any plans for the Belvedere!

Patrick, with your over-the-top political activities and your focus on the community at large we have decided that you and or the HAF are the devil and we, the moral, will make sure people understand this.

It’s time to play hard ball.

Sundberg will be the next focus. (Nevermind, he just was…scroll down on the main page.)

Hi Liberal Dude, Thanks for stopping by. We at THC like to think that we are equal opportunity whistle blowers. We have made a special point of pointing out stupidity regardless of it’s source, feel free to check out the archives if you need proof. We’ll also bet you a case of Mike’s Hard Cider (our fav!) that you’d feel differently if it was the Koch brothers or the most evil villain Arkley who took over Humboldt Area Foundation to further their own extremist positions. Try lifting your partisan x-ray glasses for a second and consider that sometimes things are just wrong no matter if you agree with the underlying cause or not. It’ll be hard for you to understand but the ends don’t always justify the means.

I kind of think you missed it on LJ’s “Letter”; since he was chiding you for your previous stand on an email sent in the name of AFSCME leadership (but being no such thing).

Your stance, supported by a majority of your readers, was that even if the email was not written by anyone authorized to speak for the union it was still damning evidence of how evil they all were.

I thought LJ’s missive in your name was quite funny. Sorry you missed that.

I hope he writes more of them until you finally get the point (that any goof can write any manner of nonsense about anything; and holding the party being spoofed responsible for what is said is just plain nuts).

Let’s say a member of a soccer team calls out next week’s opponents in a despicable way. The team manager then corrects the individual and corrects the record and says what needs to be said.

Would you still hold that soccer team or manager responsible for that individual’s actions?

Let me try to imagine an affirmative answer. Maybe the answer is the manager should have been running a tighter ship – or – the manager should not have been so fierce during the practice sessions. OK, we could have that conversation, and you would be arguing for near perfect compliance by all team members and/or extraordinary management skills.

Rather than have this conversation by myself, it would be really, really cool if you could address your mistake. Because if you do not, then it will stand not as a mistake, but a lie. And it’s a very, very important lie that boosts your – yes – partisan narrative.

Hey man, was the content of that afscme letter or whoever wrote it letter true? You’ve done a good job of arguing the point nobody knows who sent it and it wasn’t sanctioned or whatever, but was the content true, or not?

We totally understand your desire to redirect the focus of the conversation and issue at hand. For the record, we at THC could give a rats ass about who the actual author of the AFSCME letter is. We’re far more, as in way, way, way more concerned with the actual contents of the letter. You’re certainly welcome to continue waving your stick at the messenger but it’s the message that makes our skin crawl.

Here you go lying liars. Sorry, but this is really ridiculous. And you have had ample opportunities. We’ll move on to your desired topic with a little reality

Mr. Lovelace excluded as he is pro working class and pro economy and pro America. (whatever)

So AFSCME had another contract meeting last night. Great turnout. (true?)We have voted overwhelmingly to move forward to cast a strike vote if we don’t receive an acceptable contract. (I don’t know, true?) Have fun doing our jobs. But more interestingly, we will be starting exploratory committees to run active members and retired members for capture the offices you hold, as the trust fund baby crew holding office now does not understand the working class or America. (This is incorrect. I don’t think any of the current Supervisors are trust fund babies. This is offensive in the sense it is wrong. Running candidates? Absolutely. Active members? Doesn’t seem to me to be a good strategy – I would think this is a bad political idea. Offensive? No.)

In addition, we will start negative campaigning against your reelections bids. (Negative campaigning sucks. I personally hate it from the left or right. This would be a bad strategy and would turn me against my own union.) So hopefully you have hidden all of your dirt. It will be exposed to the public in mass media campaigns, doorstep pamphlets, radio airings, press releases and TV commercials, to Betty Chinn center and Catholic Charities, to Redwood Empire Little League, to the neighborhood watch etc. We just got word we have the funding and backing of the broader AFSCME brotherhood as well as our local fund raising. Hope you like to fight.

It was also brought to our attention that Rex Bohn has the endorsements of our state assemblyperson and state senator, Mr Wood and Mr McGuire, who are Democrats, and we assumed are the allies of the working class of America. (YUP! Major, MAJOR PROBLEM) They have also been contacted with a similar message to opposition to there (sp?) support of Rex Bohn’s reelection. Also included are statements made by Rex Bohn about not needing AFSCME votes, reported and documented facts about personal history, the fact he is a trust fund baby and does not understand the working class. We will also be sending members to Sacramento to let lobby and advise them that if they endorse Bohn, a stated independent, who but who really is an all out Tea Party Conservative, (Is this wrong? Is Rex not the most conservative of all the Supervisors?) then they will also be campaigned against negatively by the local and by broader AFSCME when it is there time. (See above regarding negative campaigning)

It’s time to play hard ball.

Bass and Sundberg will be the next focus.

Solidarity and Unity, AFSCME LOCAL 1684

There are my own thoughts. I don’t see the fire here for one member of a large organization to have these views. I disagree with a bunch of them. What is, of course, more important is to use this to slime unions generally and AFSCME specifically, weighing down one side of the scale of public opinion.

Good luck with that, especially if fair-minded people can point out the fundamental lie lying behind your narrative. And yes, even more fundamental is that you are partisa. You do have a cause, and that cause is anti-government and anti-union. And no, you are not an equal-opportunity whistleblower on either count.

I am a member of AFSCME, proudly so. I am an eligibility worker. My name is Jon Yalcinkaya. I am liberal and I ride a bike. Reality and truth are very important to me so my focus on your lie is not a misdirection. I’m not on board 100% on union activities or opinions – especially when they focus on individual member benefits at the cost of the public good. In that sense we are on the same page.

However, to ever agree on anything we are going to have to be dealing with the same reality. You have proven that this is not a priority for you. This is not a surprise.

In short, if it confirms your belief of what is true, then it is true.

Logically, it’s just a tiny bit intellectually bankrupt. But who is anyone to deprive you of a cherished belief? Therefore I won’t tell you that Santa Claus is not real either. All the Coke commercials are real.

I’m not surprised you don’t get the point Cousin Eddie. But I am somewhat taken aback THC doesn’t get it either.

*Wallks through the lie door* (unappologetic mischaracterization of the original letter as from AFSCME) *enters room of sliming* (“creepy shit, lj, creepy”) *sits down for a sincere conversation with a cup of tea with family*.

Cuz:

1) I have not voted nor have I been asked to vote. I’m a member. Cousin – can you connect the dots? If you can’t I will. It’s posturing and it is offensive. Would I vote to strike? Strikes are important and in this particular room here I don’t think it’s the time or place to talk about why. If you want to ask that question, I’d be happy to answer. We should do this under a more open and honest “frame”. In sum…Not True.
2) I don’t know. It should be True. Don’t you think? *checks ground of parlor* This is America. AFSCME members, last I checked, count as citizens too. I doubt it’s true and if it is, the hour is getting late to declare one’s candidacy. I think this one is self-evidently False. What is the problem if AFSCME is helping to find candidates? Would you rather Supervisors Bohn and Fennell run unopposed?
3) I don’t know. Seems entirely reasonable and is kinda the point of unions. But remember, when other communities need help we support them with our membership fees. Again, pretty basic concept of Unions and politics.

So that’s the worst of it? That is the smoking gun of this fake letter? Or was the point to have a prop to go on the diatribe THC did. More on that soon.

THC. We are never going to agree. You are as partisan as I am. (From the Google “partisan” = “a strong supporter of a party, cause, or person.” I’m just able to be honest about my partisanship (it’s the “L” in LMOB) – you have to pretend to yourself and those you reach out to that you are fair and balanced “equal opportunity whistle blower”.

I’m still waiting for that admission that this letter is a fraud and you were either duped or you knew it was a fraud and you wanted to use it for your diatribe. Until then I’m going to go somewhere I never, ever go on my commenting/blogging hobby. You are lying. It may be to yourself or to us, but you are lying about something that is very, very, very important in our local conversations about how we are going to make our community better and sustainable into the future. For all of us.

“By and large I enjoy my job and I believe that I do pretty good work for the people of Humboldt County. I also think that I have a very fair compensation and benefit package. I do earn more than the average county wage and I am grateful for it. To all those reading the letter from the AFCME Union representatives, Please be aware that neither the sentiment, the tone, and certainly not the grammar represents my own feelings or that of most county employees. Overwhelmingly we all work hard and appreciate what we have, we have simply been hijacked by vocal extremists.” *

Here’s THC’s reply…

“Also, accept our apology. We get a little worked up sometimes, and perhaps the notion that it is the AFSCME union that is the target of our ire got a little lost. ”

So, the fake letter that probably came from one member that THC says is meant to represent union leadership is definatively not meant to represent the other members.

Are you confused as to who that letter is meant to represent in the mind of THC and why? So am I. Anyway, here is what THC thinks of, specifically, “AFSCME union” (but not it’s members) (based on a letter that, not the union, but probably one of it’s members wrote).

Good reader, here are you and I (when not working as a government employee and not wearing my union-member hat/shirt) and THC.

Humboldt
us
people
regular Joe, average Joe
you and I
neighbors
fellow Humboldt residents
hard earned money
what about the rest of us?
99%
costing you
our Supervisors
Betty Chin, who is liked by President Obama, likes Rex
we hope you are outraged
show them your middle finger

I’m glad to be part of this group at least sometimes and not always with those nasty folks at the union leadership specifically – not the members – but the letter probably written by a member not the leaders….I’m still confused.

Point is, I’m so glad to be able to spend some time with this group and have that morning tea once in awhile. Thanks y’all.

Have a great weekend. I’ve got to go to work today. Seriously. And, no, no OT.

If you are so dissatisfied with your job, then take a hike. There are lots of people out there that would jump at the chance to have a gravy job with bene’s. And for a hell of a lot less.
As a tax payer,
You better remember, every dime you make was confiscated, by gunpoint from someone else.

During my time as an Eligibility Worker (decades ago) I found myself working 10 hour days and working weekends just to keep up. No OT. No anything for anytime I worked past 40 hours a week. I did it because I felt responsible for the people who depended on me. I was not by any means the only one who did that.

I’m sorry to see that evidently has not changed.

That is what it is like to work for the Government. It’s not gravy, it’s just hard work.

Interestingly, I also pay taxes. And so far I have yet to have anyone pull a gun on me to make me pay them.

Thanks for the slew o’ notes. We’re proud that we were actually able to figure out a bit of what you were talking about even though Mom had to help us with a couple of the big words. Unfortunately much of the rest was pretty unintelligible to us, hope it made sense to you. In the end we took a vote and unanimously decided that in the future we put your comments in the same file as those from The Henchman of Justice. While we firmly believe that there are some really smart guys in there somewhere you and the Jeffmeister are simply operating on a different plane from the rest of us. You’re still welcome to comment of course, it just takes way too much concentration for us to read them. Cheers!

We’ve never banned anybody and hope never to. So long as comments do not include obvious physical threats, over the top language, and similar issues they are welcome whether folks agree with us or not. We abhor censorship. That said, there are some people that we just don’t comprehend much of what they are saying. Not suggesting that they don’t have value and aren’t really great people we just don’t comprende. Hey, the fault is probably ours, or it could just be the lack of oxygen in Mom’s basement from poor circulation. Maybe, we’re just burning way too much of that fine Humboldt splif. We dunno but we just can’t dedicate the effort to trying to figure out what their point is.

Fair enough. I admit sometimes I gloss what LJ has to say when he gets abstract.

It’s your gig so I shouldn’t presume but… I just recommend that when LJ does take the effort to form his thoughts coherently (such as his letter on your behalf) you will take a moment to reflect on what he is saying.

But I do remember once upon a time when he could still string a few sentences together and make sense. And much to my surprise… every once in a very long while he manages to get it together for a post or two.

As I’ve told HOJ many times: It’s the writer’s job to make sense of what is being said, not the reader’s (not that I always measure up myself).

But my main problem with HOJ is he just doesn’t listen. He says what he says then refuses to deal with any feedback except with paranoid hostility.

Which, now I think on it, describes a few other folks I’ve run across over the years.

MOLA, I’m starting to tear up. Just try not paying some of your taxes, then you’ll see the guns.
Don’t tell me you retired early, or better yet got out on workers comp for stress.
The ink isn’t even dry on the last tax hike, and now they’re doing another exploratory poll to try for another. Now the county workers are threatening strike. We are not in the mood.

I don’t expect you to tear up… just use the brains the Universe in it’s wisdom decided to give you. We signed up for the job and took what came. Simple as that.

Your enemy is NOT the working people of this county… no matter for whom they work. The union does not represent the hundred thousand dollar-plus managers. It represents the people who do their best under less than ideal conditions to get the job done.

Nor is the newest proposed tax hike the brainchild of the rank and file.

I pay my taxes because that’s what a citizen does… I contribute to my society (taxes, jury duty, etc.) because that is what I owe to my society.

I’m sorry you feel the need to be coerced into just doing the right thing.

Using words like enemy just shows the mind set that exists. I don’t think in those terms.
Who’s brain child is the strike? How are they elected? Actions have consequences.
I am sorry you ignore the fact that even though we pay taxes, and contribute to society, the fact is, these taxes are mandatory punishable by jail time.

Sorry. Not banned no matter how tempting, though we have had to delete a couple of Jeffy’s comments. See our response to MOLA42 for details. Jon has always been civil even if confusing, confounding, and way too wordy. That boy likes to type!

THC. Thank you for the privilege of non-banishment. Here is the points
* I now know you as liars. I hate to do it, and this is a first for me, but considering that letter as from AFSCME leadership is too far. Especially after going through your diatribe that followed the letter. That may mean nothing to you, but it hurts me b/c I don’t like to play the game of upping the ante on language.
*You are partisan. Your cause is to reduce the power of groups vying for socio-economic power that are not strictly in the private sector. This in the name of power to the little guy. This was part of Reagan’s genius and was the narrative that turned the middle class against itself.

*Please, please, please reconsider your take on that letter. Read your post then your response to “Embarrassed”. See if it makes any sense to you exactly whom you mean to be the focus of your ire. Is it the leadership? Do you acknowledge the letter wasn’t from the leadership? Was it from a member? If it was from a member how do you explain your faux-apology to “Embarrased?.

This issue is far more than a Eureka problem, it is a Humboldt County problem! The responsibility for turning Eureka into a cesspool lies with the county board of supervisors who in their infinite wisdom decided to centralize all local social services in Eureka. How convenient for the rest of the county. Eureka city Council’s fear has paralyzed them and clearly put this city at peril. Please investigate the medical community who says we are in an absolute crisis to read crude and keep professionals and medical professionals in our city. Medical professionals claim in five years we will be in a catastrophic medical crisis it the crime and blight doesn’t change. I’ve contacted the EPA,the Audubon Society… Where are all the environmental list? PS… The poop or get off the pot slogan came from me! LOL Great job THC!

ABSTRACT: In this post the main point is that THC should re-examine their take on the “me-too” clause IF the argument against the highest salaries in government administration is not a disingenuous populist political tool. Also, you will find a mea-culpa to Cuz and I’ll drop the “liar” tag in favor of “a lie”.

You may being the glossing of the eyes…

THC. You are now off the liar list. But you have lied and you can’t seem to speak publically about. I respect that. It’s a political maneuver and it’s smart. It is part of what we on the left can see as part-and-parcel of the current conservative, right-wing plan to popularize policies that hurt more people than they help.

*******
Cuz..

So, I do have to correct one thing. I was wrong on the answer to #1

“1. “We have voted overwhelmingly to move forward to cast a strike vote if we don’t receive an acceptable contract.”

I said this was untrue. I should have answered I don’t know but probable. I read it as had we cast the membership vote to strike. I was about to gloat about how accurate I was after reading today’s TS. Then I re-read the question.

Here is the headline from the TS “Union: No strike vote until at least January “. That is the question I was answering – the strike vote from the members. I, btw, will be voting to strike and one of the most important aspects of the contract to me is the “me too” clause you so roundly criticized.

*********
The thing is THC. If you are really, really interested in reducing the relative high salaries of the mucky-mucks at the top of the County – to include Supervisor salaries then you too might be interested in getting the “me-too” clause in there. It’s great political fodder when you connect the me-too to the creeps you don’t want your children around. BUT, if you are serious about being concerned about high salaries – I mean really serious and not just using a political cudgel to attack government generally – then you (too) should take another look at the “me too” clause.

Why is this important? One reason as an example. If you look at that average salary stat you used – the $43K – remember that this salary is highly averaged by a few very high salaries and that total probably represents a comparatively low salary for most employees.

That’s $26K. Yes there are benefits that amount to $40K, but seriously, do you think other people count those when they are comparing jobs? We all have benefits that are great, but don’t necessarily help pay the bills this month. We don’t tend to keep track of those when making comparisons.

Here is the point THC. We should all be fighting for better wages/benefits for the 99% and the 99% includes government workers like myself and “Embarrassed”.

We should not make this a race to the bottom. By attacking the last redoubt of unions and their ability to collectively bargain, you are. If it is important to you to attack unions and government, I would ask that these arguments are fair and reasonable. If you go through that list of adjectives I extracted above for everyone’s reading pleasure which you used in YOUR OWN case of mistaken identity you will find that your arguments are neither fair nor reasonable.

But again, I respect that you will not gain any political capital by being fair or reasonable and it isn’t probably fair nor reasonable for me to even ask this.

I’m not a regular blog reader and even more rarely make comments. I happened to check back here today because unlike many blogs I find this one a little more interesting and surprisingly relevant even if a bit over the top at times. Given the number of comments you have made here apparently you agree at least in some context. Anyway, it seems that I need to clarify my earlier comments a bit. I DO think most county workers try to do their jobs as best they can and I DO think they are generally paid well for their work. I also think there is massive waste and redundancy in our County government and that even though workers do their best, much of what they do is dumb bureaucratic paper pushing. There are also many of government workers who are simply working the system, far more than in the private sector simply because they can get away with it in government. Further, as I stated earlier, we generally make far more than our equivalents in the private sector and while I don’t think we should give it back I DO think we should be honest and acknowledge this fact and be grateful to be so much better off than the average Humboldt resident. I believe that it is simply wrong for us and our union to be grabbing for everything we can when we have so much more on a relative basis. I DO NOT support a strike and certainly not the “Me Too” plan that will unquestionably further the dysfunction and waste that already exists.

Finally, for you to make the following comment: “That’s $26K. Yes there are benefits that amount to $40K, but seriously, do you think other people count those when they are comparing jobs? We all have benefits that are great, but don’t necessarily help pay the bills this month. We don’t tend to keep track of those when making comparisons.” is simply obscene. Of course we should consider our benefits! We do NOT all have great benefits and to suggest otherwise is a lie. Our benefits in government are many multiples better and more expensive than the private sector. Try paying your own health insurance for a while, add setting aside for retirement, and then try to live on what’s left when your making half the average wage we are. Your disingenuous and deceptive comments are a disservice to all of us in the public sector. Please do not use my comments to further support your selfish and underhanded agenda.

I’m proud of the work I do. The difference between us is that I’m willing to acknowledge the truth about the great deal I have and be grateful for it.

LJ,
what idiot don’t count the bene’s when they get hired on? when you go to buy health ins and its a grand a month in the private sector or get a govt job that pays less but includes health, you have to count it. your bene’s absolutely help you pay the bills, cause it’s one less bill. and a big one. this is like one of my kids math problems:

Jon makes 26K a year plus a 14K in benefits. he is offered a job that pays 36K with no benefits. health ins. is 1,000 a month. should jon take this new job?

Just to be clear, I’m not in support of any right wing BS either. I supported Bonnie Neely, and Jill Geist when they were in office and still believe that they were both FAR better administrators then the total embarrassments that have replaced them in the form of Virginia Bass and Ryan Sundberg. I personally see on a daily basis that these two do not have any idea what they are doing or why. I try to just be honest with my thoughts and words. I’m also a proud union member. I believe in unions and the important work they do in many places and for many causes. I’m just not so proud of my own union right now.

Well, we are in total agreement here. As you might expect. What you just did there is understand that Virginia and Ryan are powered by right wing BS. Most people, including Virginia and Ryan themselves would deny that.

Right wing BS would rather a non-administrator exist than a competent one. That what I mean when I speak about “intentional cogs” in the system. To them it’s not about governing at all b/c they would rather more rather than less be done in the private sector. Even if that is accomplished by intentionally making it difficult to govern. (Thus creating the bureaucratic nonsense worse rather than better).

ABSTRACT:
Embarrassed, we disagree. I will cease from using you as an example to support my argument. We do agree on your original statement, except where you got dupped by THC’s lie. We need to acknowledge that we don’t know real comparisons between private and public pay b/c the private sector would rather not share this information.

Content:

“By and large I enjoy my job and I believe that I do pretty good work for the people of Humboldt County. I also think that I have a very fair compensation and benefit package. I do earn more than the average county wage and I am grateful for it. To all those reading the letter from the AFCME Union representatives, Please be aware that neither the sentiment, the tone, and certainly not the grammar represents my own feelings or that of most county employees. Overwhelmingly we all work hard and appreciate what we have, we have simply been hijacked by vocal extremists.”

Embarrased: I agree with what you wrote in the quote. Sadly, without your name or history I don’t know the rest of your opinions.

I will refrain from using you as an example.

I too am grateful for my job. I’m grateful to be able to do something I love and get paid for it. You do have to understand that the letter was not “from the AFSCME Union representatives”. It was from a person who neither you, me nor THC agree with.

Tone, grammar is important and overwhelmingly we do all work hard and appreciate what we have.

That is probably where we disagree and we will now be trying to figure out who the “extremists” are and that will generally depend on where one falls on the political spectrum.

The question isn’t if an entry level County worker makes more or less than an entry level private sector worker. The question is… Can a worker get paid enough so that they don’t need to work a full time job and need help from say a DHHS worker or Food for People.

“I also think there is massive waste and redundancy in our County government and that even though workers do their best, much of what they do is dumb bureaucratic paper pushing.”

I totally agree. How do we make this better? From the work I do and and understanding of politics I understand so much of the paper pushing is created by intentional cogs in the system. There are many people Embarrassed that would rather not help out those who, say, work 40 hrs and then cannot make ends meet.

“We generally make far more than our equivalents in the private sector?” Really? And if so, why aren’t we working to reverse this by helping the workers in the private sector make more? As one example how is it possible that when minimum wage increases the economy magically seems to keep moving along? Have you looked at an economic inequality graph recently and asked yourself how is this happening in a country that once had the largest middle class in world history?

“We do NOT all have great benefits and to suggest otherwise is a lie.” Then let’s set up an accounting system so we can compare private vs public. Right now we can’t b/c the private sector would rather we not. What’s in it for them? Why should they? It’s a free country!

Let’s do this people. Why don’t we find out what the private sector is making and how well the owners and management do compared to the workers. And let’s count all the beans. If we do, we may start to find out that there is a huge and growing problem with how we compensate workers today and rather than county workers being shy about fighting for cost of living increases, private sector workers need to begin to stand up to owners who are doing everything they can to make it difficult and scary for their workers to even think about ….”collective” …… “bargaining”

” I will cease from using you as an example to support my argument.”
“I will refrain from using you as an example.”

Do you not understand English? These are your very own words used both before and after you restate and use my comments verbatim to further your argument. I now completely understand and agree with the non-interact approach being taken by the THC writer(s). To suggest that there is not a literal mountain of information available about private sector wages and benefits is beyond absurd. You are a nut and are in serious need of help.. Do what you want with my comments, you will anyway. This is the last I will engage with you.

Haven’t tried Mike’s but I think I’ll follow your advice. Great job on the blog even when I don’t totally agree. Many of the issues raise are critically important to our community and no one else bothers to start the discussion. In particular, the fiasco at Humboldt Area Foundation should be of great concern to everyone in the community regardless of their affiliation. Thanks!

Embarrassed. They were quoted. Please pardon me. I was speaking with you directly about a disagreement you had just brought to my attention. I guess in my mind the future was in the future and I did not know your own words should not have been used in our current conversation to help explain why and how I agreed with you and why and how I was using them.

“You are a nut and are in serious need of help.. ” Thanks for that. Guess I’ll look into visiting the county workers down at H&H.

I can see why the tone of THC’s reply didn’t bother you. It seems the most offensive aspect of the letter wasn’t the tone, but that the writer was in favor of a strike. I can see why that would be offensive to you and many others and you’ve made it very clear why.

One last thing Embarrassed. What do you think about the diatribe on THC that followed the fake letter from a purported member? We may disagree on the importance of a strike or even the reasons, but if you were concerned about the tone of the fake letter, why not comment on the tone of the response?
I have conveniently extracted all of the adjectives THC used to describe (falsely accused) union leadership explicitly. Don’t you see that this is more about posturing and they got you to feel bad about doing your work and being a member of a group based on a letter somebody wrote.
Their response, it seems to me was even worse than the offending (and fake) letter. What is up with that?

John, I don’t know you but somehow feel compelled to offer some advice anyway. I suggest that you consider spending a little time reading up on different styles of communication. There are lots of self-help web sites and literature available that might assist you in improving your skills. A change in approach might help you make your arguments both more intelligible and palatable and therefore more effective. I suspect that it possibly could also help in your everyday personal interactions and might even make it easier to get a date!

Thanks for the thought Arcatan, you are very kind. Do understand that I am attempting something very difficult. I am attempting to have a civil conversation (“liar” notwithstanding) in unfriendly political territory. I’m trying to do this while respecting those I disagree with. This is not always returned.

Not that I mind. This is the game we play.*

I appreciate your along with Embarrased’s concern trolling about my personal life, but this is not about me. This is about the policies in question, in this case it seems the sticking point seems to be whether or not a strike should be voted on given that union jobs, with good benefits are not matching the poor benefits that private sector jobs have.

A lowering tide lowers should lower all boats I guess.

Thanks again and I know from past interactions we disagree more than we agree in general so I’ll take your personal advice with the grain of salt.

Arcatan – I’m not here to become a communication expert. This isn’t about how to deliver a message, it’s about delivering an important message. That message is that we are being bamboozled and bullied and AFSCME is not the one in power doing the bullying. This faux concern about what has been proven to be a faux letter and the amazing list of descriptors that was used seems to me to be a perfect place to BEGIN to point out how the game is played. And no, I don’t think that THC completely understands the role they are playing in creating a world even more difficult for those on the edge.

These arguments are made in real time on lunch breaks and between Sunday chores. Sometimes this isn’t pretty and sometimes I may hit “send” one re-read too early. That will be in the eye of the beholder and in unfriendly political territory that eye might be quite jaundiced.

*I don’t think politics is a game. It’s very serious and the policies that will stem from politics very, very, very important.

Hey, I was just trying to politely suggest how you might get more people to at least listen to your arguments if not agree with some of them. You are probably correct that we will often disagree but that doesn’t mean I’m not interested in understanding what you have to say. On the other hand, If you’re not interested in getting your point across then who am I to argue.

I think LJ made one very good point that gets lost in the volume of words and counter words:

“A lowering tide […] should lower all boats I guess.”

That is what is insidious about the debate we are having here. The assumption is because one group has a little more than the rest, is treated better than the rest, then that group needs taking down a peg.

I would rather argue that we all need taking up a peg. Health insurance shouldn’t cost a thousand dollars a month. Everybody who is working should have an opportunity to make a living wage. Many of us clearly do not.

Cutting county employees off at the knees will not make your own lives one iota better.

There was an attempt to raise the boats with last year’s Measure R to increase local minimum wages. We all saw how that worked out.

There was a good reason why the Unions first came to be. That is a lesson that has been lost. However, there are also many good reasons why Unions declined. That is also a lesson that has been lost.

But to paint a whole class of workers negatively just because they do better at representing themselves serves no working person’s interests. We have come full circle… and working people need to unite again rather than snarl at each other.

Otherwise a very ugly piece of History will repeat itself again. We need to unite because the powers arrayed against us become stronger as we grow weaker.

*****

LJ: As you know, I am on your side. We both choose to comment on a forum not inclined to listen to what we have to say.

That is why we need to be careful about how we present our ideas. Less words, more care.

Hey Mola,
Pretty right on. One small issue here, when the county workers get a pay raise, it has to come from the non-county employees, right? I mean, when they are raising sales taxes, it comes from everybody, and most of those everybodies aren’t rich. So when you say, “Cutting county employees off at the knees will not make your own lives one iota better.” that may be true, but on the other hand, when the county employees are getting raises or they are increasing benefits, that money either comes from cuts in services to the public, or an increase in taxes. Seems kind of shitty we should suffer a cut in service or an increase for somebody who’s probably doing better than us in the first place, doesn’t it? (i’m just using average the average wage #s for the county and median household income – despite the fact that yes, there are some making more or less)

You do have a point there… but let’s extend the argument just a bit further.

When the folks at the grocery store get a raise… well that money comes from you also. If there were fewer and lower paid people working for the store… your food would be cheaper. Cheaper food is a good thing, right?

Except I would be surprised if you liked the results. Personally, I find grocery stores annoying places to hang around but imagine for a moment what that experience would be like if there were fewer checkers, stock not replaced in a timely manner or the place not being kept very clean.

You get what you pay for. A cliche certainly but still true. Perhaps a few pennies more on a loaf of bread or a can of tuna spent on adequate staffing levels just might be worth it.

Same with employees most anywhere… including those working for the local government. We really don’t need all those clerks, road workers, food inspectors and eligibility workers, do we?

As a matter of fact, we don’t. We can live without any of them.

Fire the lot of them today and you will have more money in your pocket and the sun will still rise tomorrow. But when the sun does rise tomorrow… do you think you’d be any happier with the results?

So yes, you do pay for county employees salaries. Understood. However, the salary of any employee (including yours, Cousin Eddie) carries the same burden for everyone else no matter who that person works for. We all work for each other, we all pay each other’s salaries.

Which then leads into an earnest discussion of … If it’s that way, then what is the meaning of life but to keep everyone else busy and fed?

Heck if I know. I’m told the answer is “42.”

You really can’t separate one group of workers out of the herd and say, “Ah… Those folks are a special case!” Because they aren’t. What applies to one group applies to all.

Again, I say the argument here is backwards. We are arguing about how the county workers are better off than the average. I say, the argument should be why is everybody else worse off?

I think you have all missed an important point in this discussion. Humboldt County has a small isolated economy. There is a finite number of dollars available. When the public sector gets a raise especially when there is an accompanying tax increase as has lately been the case then there are fewer dollars available in the private sector. Business owners either raise prices which they are often unable to do as a result of market forces particularly in an internet environment or face pressure to stagnate or lower wages and benefits. In effect raising government worker wages has the inverse effect of further increasing the already significant disparity with the rest of the counties workers. This is exasperated when our local economy is contracted by the loss of industry that brings in outside dollars and by new regulations that constrict our existing businesses. Both of these factors have happened here. Nothing has replaced the loss of fishing and timber jobs and we face massive new regulation from both state and local government. Heck, even the price of pot is way down so the single engine that has eased our pain over the last decade is now gone. Over and over again our STUPIDVISORS are blind to even this simple concept as they add new taxes every chance they get and pass new ordinances as fast as their staff can think them up.

Unless we grow the pie somehow which is exactly the opposite of what our Stupidvisors are doing then Government worker raises are effectively coming directly out of the pockets of the rest of Humboldt’s families who already make half what a government worker makes.

Ahhh, mola, nice argument, but theres a difference between these groups of workers. If I dont like that dirty gocery store, I don’t go back. If the manager of that store sucks, he or she is gone. I have a choice where to go to get those goods and services. I don’t have that choice at the county, and they ain’t firing anybody for incompetents.

Ya, you can take the argument to the extreme and say fire them all and we don’t need em. But I never said that any more than you said we should give them all a million dollars a year, cuz then we’ll have the best damn county workers in the world! You gets what you pay for, right? We give those folks a raise and all of the sudden the drunk s show up sober, the lazy work harder, and the stupid get smarter? And the hard workers, I guess they just keep working.

We’re sayin the same thing, raise all wages. Im guessing we have different ideas about how that goes on.

I might add one further detail before we strain the metaphors to breaking completely and sending them spinning off into the cold, dark, unforgiving Universe.

You personally can’t fire the management of the store. You can, however, make a campaign issue of the poor behavior of county employees and fire the board of directors (in this case, the Board of Supervisors).

As long as we all come away with at least understanding the idea that county employees have the same rights and obligations every other worker has, then I’m satisfied with the outcome, even if we disagree on details.

Just please bear in mind a point LJ made below; that people’s main annoyance seems to center around the possibility of the local government union going on strike.

Well, how did it come about that county employees are better off than the others? Because they collectively have had the courage to put everything on the line if they believe the cause justifies the potential sacrifice.

If you want all boats to raise on a rising tide Cousin Eddie, then you first need to understand how the tides work.

I’d say the reason they are making more than the private sector has more to do with industry leaving over the past twenty years and not being replaced than their union negotiation’s. Pretty sure about that. We’ve exported the good paying jobs and replaced them with weed trimmers and retail clerks.

Abstract: The right attacks persons, the left attacks policies (not always – Tuluwat I’m looking at you). The reason is simple, the right would rather minimize policies (read: legislative manifestations of action, read: power) stemming from government. Don’t make this about a commenter or his self-admitted shitty ability to express himself. Let’s focus on the policies – in this case – why not let hard working county voters make their own votes based on reality rather than bullying into being ashamed for getting paid for their hard work? Bullying, btw, based on a lie.

****************
MOLA: Thank you for your concern non-trolling. And Arcatan too. But this isn’t about me right now. There is a time and place for everything – I know one and possibly both of you know of that dark, sad, lonely place on the intertubes where mostly just me, MOLA, Julie and Mom hang out. Constructive criticism is more than appropriate there. Especially specifics. I love lernin!

MOLA: Here is Arcata from the post where THC doubles down on their lie/diatribe.

“MOLA, I often find your comments to be interesting and insightful. In this case however, it seems as if you missed an integral fact. If you reread the original union letter you will note certain very specific facts that could only have been known by a union representative or a knowledgeable (if not quite so literate) attendee at the union meeting. Those facts make the substance of the letter incontrovertible regardless of the position or title of the author. County union members should rightfully be pretty pissed at their leadership. The tactics being proposed by the union are an abomination and should not be tolerated by anyone in Humboldt County.” *

Why Arcatan? Why should AFSCME workers be “pissed” at their leadership? B/c somebody, someone who may not even be a member, wrote a letter that was possibly passed back to THC from an anonymous supervisor using fake credentials which then THC used to link a tourettes-like** list of nasties to AFSCME leadership?

Arcatan and MOLA, it seems to me from this thread where all of this faux outrage really stems from is people’s opinions on whether AFSCME members should vote to strike. Humboldt County has a long and sad history of anti-union activities and feelings based on the power of a very few individuals. This is something that as a new-comer with extensive experience in both private (retail) and public work in HumCo,I can feel in the work environment and in the culture generally compared my experiences elsewhere.

Let’s let the AFSCME members vote their conscience without making them come to you (THC) for absolution for something they NOR THEIR LEADERSHIP did. Can we agree to let the hard working voting members of AFSCME vote their conscience without lies and name-calling that far-far exceeds that which seems to have started this whole thing in the first place?

A: Of course not. But that is what the right does. And yes, THC, you are partisan. Maybe you can’t see this, but you are not an “equal opportunity whistleblower”.

The current argument is already long enough without digging out the old ones.

You make one excellent point lost in all the verbiage: “…all of this faux outrage really stems from is people’s opinions on whether AFSCME members should vote to strike. Humboldt County has a long and sad history of anti-union activities and feelings based on the power of a very few individuals.”

Again LJ: We are on the same side. Try to take to heart what I am saying to you.

ABSTRACT: In this comment I will question the veracity of MacTowner’s statements and by implication question his conclusions. I will also kindly note to this commenter that he may not want to admit to trying to buy Supervisor’s influence. It’s not legal.

MacTowner.

Maybe, MacTowner, the tens of thousands of dollars you collected to try to buy a “stupidvisor” may have been better spent…I don’t know…buying food or paying for rent?

Many or most of the dollars that are being spent on hard working county workers like myself, and other hard working people who have posted come from state or federal money.

“Government worker raises are effectively coming directly out of the pockets of the rest of Humboldt’s families who already make half what a government worker makes.”

So just to be clear. A sinking tide SHOULD equally sink all ships, even if the money is coming, largely, from outside the county. Wow.

Here are some cool quotes from you on this subject Mac Towner

“Regrettably, I’m pretty sure that my Stupidvisor Sundberg will cave to the rediculous of these thugs as he always has in the past. No difference between enviro-thugs and union-thugs, Sundberg gives them all whatever they want at our children’s expense of course.”

” I doubt that you have seen your friends work like dogs and raise tens of thousands of dollars in support of someone who shows their thanks by stabbing them in the back.”

If you were expecting quid-pro-quo in the latter statement, I can see why you don’t like government workers. One of them should probably be knocking on your door regarding bribery and election fraud.

Again, my pay which you can find by searching for jon yalcinkaya under humboldt county employees was a starting pay of $26,175/ year. Half of this is $13,087.5. Dividing by 40 hrs per week and 52 weeks per year that is $6.29/hr. That’s not legal pay MacTowner.

So again this “Government worker raises are effectively coming directly out of the pockets of the rest of Humboldt’s families who already make half what a government worker makes.” is doubly untrue. No, government worker’s salary in Humboldt County is not coming out of the pockets of the rest of Humboldt’s families dollar-for-dollar as you imply. And no, the rest of HumCo is not making $6.30 an hour.

I know all this truth must be making you mad THC. I’ll preemptively and unilaterally give you all a break for the rest of the day so you all don’t have to keep scrolling down. That must be getting tiring and I commiserate.

“I will also kindly note to this commenter that he may not want to admit to trying to buy Supervisor’s influence. It’s not legal.”

Raising money to help elect a candidate is not buying anything and certainly not illegal. A candidate that runs on a specific platform and makes dozens of specific campaign promises and then ignores it all once elected is dishonorable at best.

As suggested by so many others you are deeply in need of help. Funny how there is a common and repeated theme from friends and foes alike. You should take your own advice or at least that of the little voices you undoubtedly hear and check out the good folks at H & H.

I for one never said LJ needed “help” (I assume by the “friends” reference you meant me). I said he needs to work at being more concise and careful with his postings here. Others no doubt may counsel me to do the same.

As for the psychological “help” others were bleating about… that is nonsense. It is a symptom of “if you can’t attack a persons viewpoint, then attack the person.”

fyi: To be perfectly clear, I didn’t raise any money for anybody. I did watch as others I know and respect did. My wife and I did give Stupidvisor Sundberg $100 each and went to a fundraiser for him. I wholeheartedly agree with your excellent point that my money could have been better spent on just about anything. We won’t make that mistake again.

“Abstract: The right attacks persons, the left attacks policies (not always – Tuluwat I’m looking at you). The reason is simple, the right would rather minimize policies”

@LJ

That is such a subjective load of horseshit. Both the left AND right attack persons, and policies.
Blogs, news outlets, commentators – whatever/whoever – they fall on all sides of the political spectrum, and there are those out there that simply hurl mud, those who strive for reasoned dialogue, and a horde of others who are in the middle of the two aforementioned ends or the spectrum.

Keep in mind that LJ is incapable of having a conversation. He simply restates over and over whatever it is that he is using at the moment to define what a Democrat is (See the GPU with the County, where in LJ’s mind one simply cannot be a Democrat unless one sees that issue exactly how he sees it), or beats an issue that is not even the topic of a thread (See THIS very thread, where the topic is HAF and True North and the politicizing of a well loved Community Organizations) to beat the drums on something that has already been beaten into the ground.

Go back to the Union thread and post, LJ — stop hijacking the threads. The HAF issue is a relevant issue — as the moderator said, if this involved one of the local left’s bogeymen, such as RA, you’d be all over it.

It is admittedly subjective. Who will spend the money to conduct such a study (that would be objective)? Who would believe such a study would not be subjective too?

I do carve out a large exception you obviously do not. If people are arguing for self-interests then their personal capital or interest does become legitimate political fodder. Is that not fair? And with that exception, do you not agree that there is a difference between left and right?

Is there a difference between Rush L. and Thom H? There is not as great a difference between Michael Medved and Thom Hartmann, but is it Michael Medved that raises KINS’ listenership? Just one example.

Yes, when a great deal is at stake the left too will play the game. Carville, Bush’s DUI incident 10 days before the election, and locally, the TE’s exploitation of Chet Albin’s bad day all come to mind. But this isn’t our primary political tool, I’m arguing most of us on the left would never want to see the light of day. One the right, it seems to be the raison d etre to paint the left as the Devil that one is tainted by just by proximity. (or idiotic, or crazy, or ….)

And yes, that is what started this discussion in this thread.

b)“Keep in mind that LJ is incapable of having a conversation.”

I’ve gone out of my way to answer people’s questions and still have not received the answer to mine. Check out my answer to Cuz as one example. Here again is the beginning of my question … Was “AFSCME” leadership the author of the letter? If not, who is the people or persons exactly that we don’t want near our children? Is it the people who would deign to want to use collective bargaining to insure they don’t lose ground while doing the same or increased work? Here is a graph of what happens when they do….

This is happening to all of us not just union members. Below is a graph of union participation. Is there anyone who believes that productivity vs compensation increase is not related to the decrease in the influence of unions? Unions are critical to a functioning society which is based on the economic principle of capitalism.

c)

“See the GPU with the County, where in LJ’s mind one simply cannot be a Democrat unless one sees that issue exactly how he sees it”

No, but it would be nice if 3 Democrats, and 2 DTS did not do this to what had been established under two different BOS, in effect changing electoral history. Last man (or woman) standing and all that.

From:“Protect agriculture and timberland over the long-term, using measures such as increased restrictions on resource land subdivisions and patent parcel development.”
To:” Encourage, incentivize and support agriculture, timber, ecosystem services and compatible uses on resource lands.”