01/16/15
Not so fast: Live Well Network, the digital subchannel carried by WLS-Channel 7 and other ABC-owned stations, won’t be signing off Friday after all.

ABC Owned Television Stations Group announced last June that it would cease operation of the network at the end of this week. But the company now says it will continue to air reruns of Live Well programming for at least the next two months on its eight owned stations, including Chicago’s ABC 7, which launched the network in 2009.

Thought we were rid of it. Now we're looking at the end of March.
Anyone hear what might take its' place?

Grit TV was a good choice but, the resolution makes it unwatchable at times and that's on an SDTV! Hd is pretty much horrendous. Black and white look the best.
Don't need another oldies TV/movie station, must be something worthwhile out there?

Media General has been the only company that hasnt announced its post Live Well plans.
And by the way...LWN will be around til April when Laff takes the place on the SD counterpart of ABC O&O (and Scripps stations will get the station too)

Thought we were rid of it. Now we're looking at the end of March.
Anyone hear what might take its' place?

Don't need another oldies TV/movie station, must be something worthwhile out there?

Yes, I thought it would've been off by now too. However we disagree on a replacement. I've been hoping for "GetTV" (the classic movie network) for months. And there's also another classic channel debuting in May... Decades. However I don't believe either of these would be WTEN candidates. GetTV was sold only to Sinclair stations last year, and Decades WILL be a CBS o&o channel.

Sincalir signed a deal for GetTv. They didnt buy it so any station in your market could carry it

Quote:

and Decades WILL be a CBS o&o channel.

tell that to Bonten Media who added it to their stations in Bristol, TN and Greenville, NC
Tell that to Major Market Broadcasting who just added it to the station in Fargo, ND
Milwaukee has it on their CBS which is owned by Weigel (ok yeah they own 1/2 of Decades too)

Sincalir signed a deal for GetTv. They didnt buy it so any station in your market could carry it

tell that to Bonten Media who added it to their stations in Bristol, TN and Greenville, NC
Tell that to Major Market Broadcasting who just added it to the station in Fargo, ND
Milwaukee has it on their CBS which is owned by Weigel (ok yeah they own 1/2 of Decades too)

no problem. With "Decades" I can see that added in a lot of areas due to the agreement with Weigel (who owns MeTV and 1/2 of Movies!). The only "sure thing" about Decades was that the CBS O&O stations will add it (16 stations in 14 markets. My market of Minneapolis, MN is the oddball. We have 3 CBS O&O stations in the market. WCCO is the mothership based in Mpls. KCCO & KCCW are full satellites of WCCO to get CBS to other parts of the market)

Looking at your market you have TWO Sinclair owned stations. WRGB CBS and WCWN CW. So as to why they havent added it to one of those stations is odd.

no problem. With "Decades" I can see that added in a lot of areas due to the agreement with Weigel (who owns MeTV and 1/2 of Movies!). The only "sure thing" about Decades was that the CBS O&O stations will add it (16 stations in 14 markets. My market of Minneapolis, MN is the oddball. We have 3 CBS O&O stations in the market. WCCO is the mothership based in Mpls. KCCO & KCCW are full satellites of WCCO to get CBS to other parts of the market)

Looking at your market you have TWO Sinclair owned stations. WRGB CBS and WCWN CW. So as to why they havent added it to one of those stations is odd.

...and I have the feeling we're going to remain in that "odd" position...although time will tell. The most recent addition was GritTV, which is on a WCWN sub-channel. WRGB (6) also has an SD sub-channel within WCWN (45.3), since the digital switch kept them on RF 6.

A preamp might help pull in the weak stations, provided the strong ones don't overload it. The most important thing to look at is not the gain (unless you're planning to feed the output through a lot of splitters) but the noise figure, which should be as low as possible. It should be mounted as close to the antenna as possible. The CM and ClearStream amps are for indoor use only so if the antenna is outdoors the Juice is the only choice of the three. The ClearStream's NF is pretty high. The CM is intended for cable use although it would also work for distribution of strong antenna signals. But CM makes good outdoor preamps, as does Winegard.

I'm impressed that you get 14 at all. Most people in the area can't. It's not LOS on your TV Fool radar plot.
Move to Windham. Or try aiming the antenna directly at 14 and hope the other stations are strong enough that you don't lose them.

Move, I wish, but Windham is hardly my choice. lol
I've tried aiming my antenna in the ch 14 direction. It seems to help, while the others are not hurt.

I've checked Google & Wikipedia. I even checked the AMGTV site. But I still can't determine the main program setup for the channel.
Is it reruns, movies, news, etc?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebo

A preamp might help pull in the weak stations, provided the strong ones don't overload it. The most important thing to look at is not the gain (unless you're planning to feed the output through a lot of splitters) but the noise figure, which should be as low as possible. It should be mounted as close to the antenna as possible. The CM and ClearStream amps are for indoor use only so if the antenna is outdoors the Juice is the only choice of the three. The ClearStream's NF is pretty high. The CM is intended for cable use although it would also work for distribution of strong antenna signals. But CM makes good outdoor preamps, as does Winegard.

I have my ClearStream™ 2V Long Range UHF/VHF Antenna mounted table-top inside.
What do I need a preamp or amplifier? The channels I'm having issues with look similar to this:

I only need this to run on one tv. Which should I go with CM, ClearStream, Winegard?

I have my ClearStream™ 2V Long Range UHF/VHF Antenna mounted table-top inside.
What do I need a preamp or amplifier?
[Picture deleted --ebo]
I only need this to run on one tv. Which should I go with CM, ClearStream, Winegard?

With an indoor antenna, presumably only a few feet from the TV, your only hope that a preamp will help is if its noise figure is lower than the TV tuner's. Since TV manufacturers never post that information, your best bet is to go for the lowest NF you can afford and try it. Maybe it'll help, maybe not. Maybe the stronger stations will overload it and you'll get fewer stations than before, or none. In that case you could put attenuators between the antenna and the preamp. Counterintuitive, I know, but sometimes you can find a sweet spot: improvement without overload.

I'll say this one more time, then I'll shut up on the subject: you really need to try your antenna outdoors, even if it's to temporarily stick it out a window. You should see a significant improvement with your marginal stations.

BTW, you mentioned that you get two copies of WNYT (13). They are the main transmitter on RF 12 from the Helderbergs and a repeater on RF 18 from WNYT's former analog location on Bald Mt.

With an indoor antenna, presumably only a few feet from the TV, your only hope that a preamp will help is if its noise figure is lower than the TV tuner's. Since TV manufacturers never post that information, your best bet is to go for the lowest NF you can afford and try it. Maybe it'll help, maybe not. Maybe the stronger stations will overload it and you'll get fewer stations than before, or none. In that case you could put attenuators between the antenna and the preamp. Counterintuitive, I know, but sometimes you can find a sweet spot: improvement without overload.

Which preamps should I try? What level of NF should I be looking at? If I do need attenuators, which should I look into?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebo

I'll say this one more time, then I'll shut up on the subject: you really need to try your antenna outdoors, even if it's to temporarily stick it out a window. You should see a significant improvement with your marginal stations.

I live in an apt building. So mounting outdoors is not an option. The best I can do is move it as close to the window as possible. The problem channels want to come in, they just need a boost.
What about coax, should I update it all? ATM the preamp would be a cheaper solution to try first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebo

BTW, you mentioned that you get two copies of WNYT (13). They are the main transmitter on RF 12 from the Helderbergs and a repeater on RF 18 from WNYT's former analog location on Bald Mt.

Are you sure they are analog? The channels are coming in as 13-1, 13-1, 13-2, 13-2, 13-3, 13-3. None of them have the typical analog delay.

Are you sure they are analog? The channels are coming in as 13-1, 13-1, 13-2, 13-2, 13-3, 13-3. None of them have the typical analog delay.

He doesn't mean the channels are analog. They're not. What he's referring to is that the Bald Mountain transmitter where the signals are coming from, USED to be the transmitter where ch. 13 had their analog signal BEFORE they went digital.

By the way...In2tvClassics...you must have the advantage of height where you are...in order to even marginally receive WYBN 14 and WEPT's new digital (15.1) signal. I've been wanting to receive them ever since they came on...and have tried all I can only to be disappointed each time. As far as I know though, one of WYBN's channels is AMGTV...which is the same as WEPT.

He doesn't mean the channels are analog. They're not. What he's referring to is that the Bald Mountain transmitter where the signals are coming from, USED to be the transmitter where ch. 13 had their analog signal BEFORE they went digital.

By the way...In2tvClassics...you must have the advantage of height where you are...in order to even marginally receive WYBN 14 and WEPT's new digital (15.1) signal. I've been wanting to receive them ever since they came on...and have tried all I can only to be disappointed each time. As far as I know though, one of WYBN's channels is AMGTV...which is the same as WEPT.

So they just both running at the same time. No biggie, I'll just block the duplicates later.

I'm on the level mid-section of a bigger hill. Just two-story houses in my immediate location.
__________________________________________________ _______________________

I've been looking around for a fairly priced amplifier. Which of these would be worth testing out?
Best to worst. What price range should I be looking for each one? Lowest to Highest for each.
Are there any that I should avoid altogether?

What the heck is on 6.3? Is it weather? That doesn't scan-in for me at all. I keep writing to ch.6 about the possibility of adding GetTV (the classic movie network) since other Sinclair stations already air it... but they've NEVER responded to me...at all.

Well got a chance to try the Winegard LNA-100 Amplifier this weekend.
The results sucked. It didn't do nothing for ch6 & Ch14. While it did manage to mess up FOX 23-1.

So it looks like I'm sticking to the RCA Digital Signal Amplifier.

I'll just have to keep making antenna adjustments to get the results I want. (Both Ch6 & 14) If not, something that will be good enough. (Ch6)
__________________________________________________ __________

Yes it's a weather station.

6-1 CBS / WRGB CBS6
6-2 ThisTV
6-3 WRGB CBS6 24hr Weather

If 6-1 comes in than it's likely that 6-2 will also be working. While 6-3 doesn't always want to come in. All I want is 6-1 so I can get 6-2.
__________________________________________________ __________

GetTV (the classic movie network) would be great to have. But having it on Ch6-# would be a PITA.
It would serve everyone better if it was on the Ch45-#.
Currently they have:

45-1 CW
45-2 GritTV
45-3 CBS / WRGB CBS6

A perfect addition would be:

45-4 GetTV
45-5 ThisTV

If they had to add it 45-6 WRGB CBS6 24hr Weather.
At least then they all come in properly.

If 6-1 comes in than it's likely that 6-2 will also be working. While 6-3 doesn't always want to come in. All I want is 6-1 so I can get 6-2.
__________________________________________________ __________

GetTV (the classic movie network) would be great to have. But having it on Ch6-# would be a PITA.
It would serve everyone better if it was on the Ch45-#.
Currently they have:

45-1 CW
45-2 GritTV
45-3 CBS / WRGB CBS6

A perfect addition would be:

45-4 GetTV
45-5 ThisTV

If they had to add it 45-6 WRGB CBS6 24hr Weather.
At least then they all come in properly.

Well, 6.3 almost seems like a "throwaway" signal. It's bizarre that I've never picked it up from any antenna!!

I can't see that WCWN would ever expand its sub-channels to the point of adding a .4 and .5 etc. They'd say it would adversely affect their bandwidth. It always seems to be "secondary" channels like WYBN, which only offer their stations in SD, to have multiple sub-channels. There's one like that in Buffalo (ch. 56). It's locally owned, has an extremely weak signal and has no less than 7 sub-channels...included RetroTV.

I personally don't see why all THREE of our main network affiliates need a 24/7 weather channel. It's kind of a useless feature...and I'm even saying that as a certified weather-nut! Each of them could make better use of the channel without it.

Oh................one more thing regarding RetroTV. I was told by the GM at WNCE Glens Falls, (8.1) that they're trying to strike a deal with various networks for their 8.2 sub-channel. Retro is one that they're talking with.

Last edited by NYota1; 03-16-2015 at 07:13 AM.
Reason: added a comment.

If 6-1 comes in than it's likely that 6-2 will also be working. While 6-3 doesn't always want to come in. All I want is 6-1 so I can get 6-2.
__________________________________________________ __________
...
6-3 should never come in, it hasn't existed since 2008

__________________________________________________ _________
...
6-3 should never come in, it hasn't existed since 2008

THANK YOU for clarifying that!! At least I know I'm not meant to see it.

Does this possibly open the discussion of another sub-channel? Or was it removed due to bandwidth issues? Could you please comment on why I never receive a response from WRGB's contact page regarding the addition of another program service? It's very frustrating that no one seems to think that my question has merit.

I may be sounding like a broken record, but I'm trying to find out if GetTV will ever come to Albany. It's already available in Buffalo, Rochester, & Syracuse. Then it skips this area and lands in Boston and Portland. I just don't "get it" why we are in the "passed-over" zone!

Maybe so, but I did have it a couple days ago. It was coming in nice and clear to.

ATM I can't get 6-1 CBS / WRGB CBS or 6-2 ThisTV

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYota1

I may be sounding like a broken record, but I'm trying to find out if GetTV will ever come to Albany. It's already available in Buffalo, Rochester, & Syracuse. Then it skips this area and lands in Boston and Portland. I just don't "get it" why we are in the "passed-over" zone!

With 6-1, 6-2 & yes 6-3 signals being so low, why not just use Ch45 instead? We already have the following channels.
45-1 CW
45-2 GritTV
45-3 CBS / WRGB CBS6

We are ranked as the 58th TV market. I don't know if ranking is representative of the number of channels (or allocations) than an area has, but I also realize that we don't HAVE many local channels to begin with.

My current observation is that we appear to get "passed over" with many of the new over-the-air services that have sprung up since the digital conversion began.

Maybe the issue lies with the choices our locals have made.

WRGB only has 1 sub-channel... "ThisTV".

WTEN has 2 sub-channels... local weather, and LiveWell. Maybe we'll get "Laff" on April 15.

WNYT also has 2 sub-channels. Local weather, and MeTV (which I like).

WXXA is a joke! Only 1 sub-channel, and although it has changed services more than once...it's now an OTB (offtrack betting) channel.

Between MyTV & the CW we have an SD version of CBS-6, GritTV and Antenna TV (which I like) The CW channel has 2 subs, and the MyTV, has only 1. And that's it!

So, when I think about some of the services that are out there, such as;
Bounce, Escape, Cozi, Movies, Fox Movies, Retro, GetTV, Justice, Heroes & Icons, and now the latest will be Decades (for CBS o&o's)..... I begin to see that what WE have seems like nothing!

Obviously the majors, i.e. NY, Boston, etc.... have most if not ALL of these. I expect that. But, it just seems that the choices that OUR locals have made, need to be expanded on.

Why can't those stations that only have ONE sub-channel, add another? Or why do two of our locals waste a channel with weather? (and THAT complaint is coming from a certified "weather-nut"!) Then there's the OTB channel! Give me a break!

I never mentioned ION...but they're the same in each market, offering only shopping and children's channels in addition to ION itself.

I have written to WRGB several times with a general query, but not ONCE have they chosen to respond. Silence is all I've received from them.

So, that's my complaint. I know it's not the most important issue in my life, but it's part of the "entertainment" portion of it. Hopefully it won't remain this way forever. Perhaps one of our affiliates will "wake-up" and address it. In the meantime, I feel as though we're getting overlooked and short-changed when it comes to new OTA services.

What's YOUR opinion on this? I wish I could band together with other locals who might have the same wish, and see if we can't get some changes initiated.

I'm all for having all those channels.
I have family outside of Rochester if they used OTA they could get at least 30 channels.
MyTV4, ThisTV, TuffTV, CW, GritTV, ME-TV, GetTV are just some of those stations

Glad you're with me on this! Most markets have a MY Network affiliate, but This, Tuff & Grit aren't in Rochester yet. Buffalo doesn't have Tuff, but has all the others that you quoted above. Buffalo has Antenna TV, Justice & Retro as well.