Monday, May 21, 2007

Comment of the Week

Observer, a valued OM commenter, leaves a comment that stands out among the recent post-election spate of nasty, sniping comments we've been seeing of late:

For better or worse, the people have spoken. It is time to move on already. This past shabbat, Rabbi Billet, in the largest orthodox shul in the Five Towns (and the largest Young Israel congregation in the nation) spoke about the election and I think everyone commenting on this site could learn from what he had to say. He spoke of the Board's responsibility: first and foremost to the public school children, but secondarily, to the rest of the children of the District. He spoke VERY strongly of the newly elected Board's obligation to keep the needs of the public school children at the forefront and to make them, the board's primary responsibility. He also spoke of what brought us to this point, which was the history of (at least a perception) of prior BOEs not keeping in mind their secondary responsibilities to the remaining children of the District. He also pointed out that there is nothing for anyone to gloat about, that it is simply time to move on and do what is best for the children. Hopefully, moving forward, this Board, and future BOEs will keep both responsibilities in mind and make this District better for all of the children in this community. Both sides in this community claim to want to do what is best for all children in this community, so lets do so. It is less than a week since the election, why doesn't everybody calm down, give this board an opportunity to meet its obligations to all the children of the community (with the primary obligation being to the public school children), and move on. Should this Board not meet its obligation, there will be another election (and another, and another). Just give it some time and cut out the nasty comments (from both sides) for at least a little while.

It's nice to see Rabbi Billet express a sentiment that I agree with completely - that the duty of the new BOE is to serve the education needs of the district's public school children, while ensuring that the needs of private school community are met in an equitable manner to the extent the law allows.

Now I'd like to see this community move on and try to heal a little.

And people? Take down the darn lawn signs already. There's just no excuse for dragging this sad chapter out.

122 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Feitman spoke about how there can be some small good aspect that can come of a tragedy. He talked about how the couple who were killed in the fire on Oakland Avenue attended a Conservative synagogue but where nevertheless supportive to the Red Shul. And, in turn, the Shul was able to show its respect for them at this tragic time.

Let's hope the community follows this rabbinic leadership to build bridges, show respect, and not fall into neggative patterns that are so tempting.

I think the public and private school children should play sports together on the same ballfields. This will solve alot of bigotry and cost problems and make the community more cohesive. I think a movement should be made by all the people of the town to co-mingle sports programs so everyone can get to know one another and also save costs. The town needs integration, NOT SEPARATION!!! I would love to hear everyones opinion.

7:22 PM: I know a lot of people in YIW and I wouldn't say the majority go to public schools. But you are a member, and I am only friends with many of the members, so I don't see it the same way you do.

I am jewish and a graduate of LHS...i do not believe that this site is causing people to become anti-semetic, however i do agree with you in that OM is responsible for a lot of the controversy occuring in the district. If this blog had never been started, there would still have been problems but not as many...Thanks a lot OM for causing more problems. This community needs help being brought together, not torn apart even further!!!

'however i do agree with you in that OM is responsible for a lot of the controversy occuring in the district. If this blog had never been started, there would still have been problems but not as many.."

you obviously don't recall how bad things had gotten before OM started this blog. Om started blogging right around when Stan Kopilow made his infamous "shotgun" statement. Trust me, I am pretty sure that with Om's 2 readers at that time, she didn't to anything to fan the flames. They built up all by themselves.

As a matter of fact, I think OM has always been fair and stuck to the facts here. You can't blame her for the fact that she has commenters who actually say what they think. Anyway, I'd rather actually know that people out there hate Orthodox than just suspect it.

Anonymous said... I think the public and private school children should play sports together on the same ballfields. This will solve alot of bigotry and cost problems and make the community more cohesive. I think a movement should be made by all the people of the town to co-mingle sports programs so everyone can get to know one another and also save costs. The town needs integration, NOT SEPARATION!!! I would love to hear everyones opinion.

8:09 PM

I HAVE A QUESTION..... SINCE PUBLIC SCHOOL SPORTS ARE CO-ED ( AND SEGREGATING THEM DISCRIMINATORY) JUST HOW ARE THE TEAMS SUPPOSED TO INTEGRATE.. WILL THE YESHIVA BOYS PLAY WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOL TEAMS IF THERE IS A GIRL ON THE TEAM?? AND WE ALL KNOW THAT FEMALES CAN BE PART OF A TEAM... ANY COMMENTS??

Lawrence-Hewlett Soccer Club also seperates boys and girls' teams (starting in 1st grade). It has nothing to do with religion but with the sport skill level and ability. But their games are on Saturdays. Registration starts soon, maybe someone can suggest games on Sundays so more families will join.

WHAT! Orthomom wants to end this sad chapter.Othomom is one of the causes of this sad story.All the rhetoric and now "It's nice to see Rabbi Billet express a sentiment that I agree with completely - that the duty of the new BOE is to serve the education needs of the district's public school children,...."

You shoud be ashamed of yourself.

How dare you!

All the wounds that you inflicted are still fresh.

How can you even look yourself in the mirror.

You are a evil person. The world and the 5 towns would be a much better place if you never logged on again.

"jews who drive german cars should not be offended by the word shvartzah"

From Jewish News Weekly 5/22/98

Other Jews have found reasons to let go of the past.

Rabbi Ted Alexander of San Francisco's Congregation B'nai Emunah was once so hard-core that he even rejected his only chance to receive restitution payments from Germany.

"I refused it as blood money," said Alexander, a Berlin native who escaped to Shanghai in 1939.

But about 25 or 30 years ago, a Torah passage jumped out at the rabbi, and changed his mind about punishing post-war Germany.

"Fathers shall not be put to death for children, neither shall children be put to death for fathers," said Alexander, quoting from Deuteronomy 24:16.

"Going by that verse of the Torah, I cannot blame this generation."

Odette Myers, a Paris native who was hidden during the war and passed off as a Catholic child, boycotted German products for 30 or 40 years. But that's no longer the case.

She has seen a new generation arise in Germany.

"Germany in some ways is better than America. You can't even use the word `Nazi' there. You have to be very careful," the Berkeley resident said.

Myers serves as president of Tikvah, a Bay Area advocacy group for survivors, and is a co-founder of Yaldei HaShoah, a support group for those who survived the Holocaust as children.

Her feelings began to change after a friend who survived the Holocaust was invited back to Germany to speak to schoolchildren several years ago. That friend and others have been treated with "great respect" during their trips, Myers said.

Maurice Harris, director of the Holocaust Oral History Project, also believes that Germany has changed.

The country "today is morally no worse than any major industrial state," the 29-year-old said.

Harris, who is in the market for a new car, is considering a Volkswagen Jetta. Though Harris said the idea of owning a German car "does give me pause," his non-Jewish fiancée, who has studied the Holocaust in depth, is the one who "gets the creeps" about buying one.

the point is that it severly offends many who went throgh the holocaust and saw family members burned or forced o inhale rat poison. this sensitivity should be enogh to stop frum people from driving them. its funny to notice the nmber of german cars our community has parked outside its yom hashoah events.

"Fathers shall not be put to death for children, neither shall children be put to death for fathers," said Alexander, quoting from Deuteronomy 24:16. obviously that rabbi takes the scripture at face value. im sure in his temple he has valet parking too.

Any outrage out there at the possibility of the 5Towns Community Center closing? This will be devastating to the community, for it provides many, many needy services. I can't believe there isn't more outrage in the press about it. I know it's not a frum locale, but it is nonetheless in the community and invaluable. I would love to see the BOE put some effort into trying to save it, if it's possible. BTW, for the record, this is not an attack on the new board. It's simply a wish, and I'd like any board, regardless of who sits on it, to fight to save a place that provides so many important services to so many needy district children.

I'm not sure what you're implying. I did say what I want. I'm concerned about the closing of the 5TCC and the impact it will have on the neediest of kids in the community. I think everyone in the community should be up in arms, including all school related groups such as the BOE, PTA, and LTA.

This is really sad. People are making problems where they shouldn't even exist. People need to learn to live with each other. I have lived in Cedarhurst for my whole life. I've seen this place change as I grew up, and for the life of me I can't figure out where the rift grew between "us and them." Are you all scared of people that aren't like you?

This community has come to look just like my family - everyone is stubborn, always has to be right, and always tries to get the last word in. It is beyond me why people can't just be civil towards one another. There is so much snobbery amongst EVERYONE, expressions of "I'm better than you," that one can easily feel just walking down Central Avenue. I've stopped going shopping on Central Avenue because of the snobbery that I have encountered from not only young people but ADULTS as well in the past years.

And Rabbi Billet is absolutely right about the responsibilities of the BOE. No matter their religious beliefs, they have a job to do, and hopefully, for the sake of the children in the public schools who bear the grunt of the changes taking place, they can fulfill their duties.

Honestly, everyone needs to stop talking about religion as an issue. I know that everyone in this community has the power to look past differences and focus on what we all have in common, but for some reason, they aren't doing it. Everyone is acting like they are a victim. And that is absolutely ridiculous. This town is a joke. No one wants to listen to any one but themselves, and people are really suffering while no real problems are being dealt with. There is so much animosity in the air, and I am no longer comfortable living in this place that I have called home for my whole life. We live right next to New York City - a city as diverse as anyone can imagine - and yet we have a problem in a town that isn't even close to being as diverse.

How about instead of pointing fingers here and there, we each take a look at ourselves and then look around at the fact that we are not all that different from eachother.

And Orthomom, your blog is as divisive as anything, and only doing a disservice to all of us. If you really want the rift in our community to heal, I would advise you to focus on similarities, and instead of writing a blog, you go out into our community and create something to bring all our people together. Your blog doesn't do a thing for anyone. I guarantee you.

And there is something that some of you parents may be blind of: Your children are learning of this divisiveness and the differences that exist among everyone. They are learning that there is an "us and them," when they absolutely should not be learning such a thing. All this animosity and the idea and talk of an "us" and "them" is being echoed by your children. Remember that your children are learning from every word that they hear, especially those from their parents. This rift will only grow larger and into new generations if we don't make a change NOW.

I agree with above poster. Its real easy to be an anonymous blogger and sit there and criticize everything!!! ORTHOMOM, why dont you do something PRODUCTIVE instead, and go out and help mend the community. Otherwise you are just a pitiful rabble rouser with no life! Orthomom..go get a life!!!

the only ones who see it as us vs. them are the ones who feel insecure about themselves and their lifestyle. for example the orthos go to synagogue every week and the rabbi in his sermon tells us to be good people to embrace our neighbors, but with a limit. now because you kids want to go to public school barley dressed with short shorts and mid drift t shirts, that is your privilage. the orthos however, dress differently. if we seem to be a bit distanced it is because we dont need these influences on our children. now back to saturday, while we are in synagogue, you are mowing your lawns repairing your homes. to us it is a day of rest. a day of quiet. and all the noise is disturbing when we are trying to rest. yes, we must coexist or move to Mondroe, ny. but you have to accept us just as we are and we have to accept your way of living. if we were all the same we would not have any blogs either..

A few years ago, a temple moved in next door to my home. Since that time, there has been non-stop noise, ranging from davening loudly, nursery school and day camp, tables, chairs, tents, etc. being set up after 11 p.m. and before 8 a.m., the party truck with its music and engine on for over an hour while the workers set up, the cleaning crew who comes between 1 and 5 am, the car doors slamming before 6 a.m. for mincha services, car alarms that are set off and not turned off at 6:05 a.m., people who leave their cars in the temple lot before shabbos and then congregate and chat in the lot after 11 p.m. before getting into their cars after shabbos is over, kiddushim with over 500 people in the parking lot, the garbage and food thrown in my yard after kiddush, the clean up crew smoking their cigarettes 5 ft. from my backyard deck, the gardners who arrive before 7 a.m.,...these are only some of the experiences I have, but I still honor everyone's right to practice their faith and religion without infringing on anyone elses. One day, my family and I were enjoying a Saturday in our backyard and when I asked my husband a question, I heard someone next door at the temple (outside services under a tent) shout to me, "shut up, we're trying to pray here." Well, I am trying to live here and to enjoy my rights as a homeowner in what once was a peaceful community. Now I ask you, is this statement from a supposedly pious individual indicative of the "us vs. them" mentality that is being taught not only in frum homes and Yeshiva but also in temple? Please understand that we are people of all different types and levels of faith and religion living in the same community. We are all the same on the inside. Tolerance and co-existence with our neighbors is a two-way street. It must start at home and I agree with the prior blogger that we must look within and teach our children to understand that regardless of religion, race, socio-economic background, etc. that we are made of the same stuff on the inside.

anon 11:46 AM“One day, my family and I were enjoying a Saturday in our backyard and when I asked my husband a question, I heard someone next door at the temple (outside services under a tent) shout to me, "shut up, we're trying to pray here." Well, I am trying to live here and to enjoy my rights as a homeowner in what once was a peaceful community. Now I ask you, is this statement from a supposedly pious individual indicative of the "us vs. them" mentality that is being taught not only in frum homes and Yeshiva but also in temple?”

The answer to your question is a definite no. In every small shul/temple in close proximity to residential homes that I have attended, the Rabbi, or shul officers make a point of informing the congregation to be mindful and respectful of the neighbors (a reminder not necessary for most). However, I don’t doubt what you have said. It only takes a couple of rotten apples to spoil a relationship with the neighbors. These people do not represent the religion, or us all.

anon 11:02 - I don't even know where to begin with you. That was quite a pompous comment you left, and you should really pull your head out of your ass and take a look at the reality of our community. Just because some of you are going to temple and listening to a preacher does not mean that everyone is following what is being said and acting the way that God deems them to. For you to sit there and type something like that is disgusting; pretending that anyone who goes to temple could never have wronged anyone else is a joke. You are not perfect. And for you to make a statement attacking the dress of children in public schools is for you to make an attack on their beliefs and all public school children alike. You have there made a statement that public school children are somehow bad and a negative influence. I am a product of a public school. I have never worn "short shorts" or "midriff bearing shirts". I attend one of the top colleges in the country. I am on the road to becoming a teacher. I am not a part of this negative image that you have of public schools, and neither are 90% of the students that attend there. For anyone to say that products of public schools are a bad influence is disgraceful for that person who said that. Go take a look at the adolescents of the private schools. If you can attempt to deny that drugs and alcohol and sex are not as much a problem there as anywhere else, you are out of your mind. If you have taught your children well, regardless of influences around them, they will grow to be thriving adults. Talk about insecurities. Your comment is proof of the negative mindset that exists among the people in our community.

the orthos go to synagogue every week and the rabbi in his sermon tells us to be good people to embrace our neighbors, but with a limit.

With a limit? Does this rabbi feel that the non Orthodox members of the community should have limits, too?

Your neighbor is your neighbor. Period.

Rabbi Hillel said, "What is hateful to thee, do it not unto thy neighbor. This is the whole Law and the rest is the interpretation thereof "

Jesus said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

You said, "embrace our neighbors, but with a limit."

Very thoughtful of you.

now because you kids want to go to public school barley dressed with short shorts and mid drift t shirts, that is your privilage. the orthos however, dress differently. if we seem to be a bit distanced it is because we dont need these influences on our children.

Your kids probably want to go to school dressed like that, too. You just don't let them. Most people don't. And don't mistake what kids might wear on the street to what they wear in school. Public schools have dress codes also, and the administration has a pretty free hand in enforcing it. Last week on the first hot day my high schooler said the assistant principal was everywhere at once keeping her eye out for inappropriate clothing. And to be fair, anyone whose lived in the 5T for over a week has seen the kids coming out of HAFTR high school, the boys stuffing their yarmulkes in their pockets, the girls peeling off those long sleeved shirts.

But I don't judge your kids the way you judge mine. Do I say to myself "those kids must be trouble, since they dress like that on the streets"? No, I just figure it's a Jewish school with a dress code and when schools over, it's over.

now back to saturday, while we are in synagogue, you are mowing your lawns repairing your homes. to us it is a day of rest. a day of quiet. and all the noise is disturbing when we are trying to rest.

So let's see now. There's every shabbos. That's 52 days a year. Then there's Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashana, Pesach. Plus the other dozen or so less well known holidays. Let's round it off to 70 days a year. A little less than 20% of the secular year. That's not too much for you neighbors to give up so you can get a little better rest.

How about we trade you two Saturdays for Christmas and Easter Sunday. You know, keep all the stores on Central Ave. closed and your neighbors won't have to fight for a parking space to go to Mass.

In all seriousness, though, I will miss the convenience of being able to do some last minute Christmas shopping on Christmas Day, or getting a quick slice before dinner on Easter Sunday, but I'll make the sacrifice if you will :-)

Well I haven't been on this blog in a while and am not happy what I see.

Let's just say that we ALL have to understand the term "Live and let Live". We have our ways of doing things that should be respected and you have yours. One thing is for sure we all have to learn how to respect each other.

Our Code of dress is a religious code and does not apply to school hours, it applies to modesty. Even though some children choose not to adhere to the rules. And yes you are right that many of our children wish to dress like yours and we don't allow it. And I am sure that you have the same fights with your children as we do regarding what YOU think is inappropriate, too short, too revealing, too tight, etc. However our standards are guided by Torah Values.

I think the message was relayed incorrectly and maybe even hurtfully if it was understood to mean that this commentor feels that your children are bad and are bad influences on our children. I personally feel that all of Hashem's (G-d's) children are Gems and blessings, and they must surely have a lot to offer our children in many aspects. However, since they are open to many influences in this society from which we choose to shield our children from, the fear is that they will introduce the children to those influences which are not in line with the religiious values we are teaching them.

NO ONE has ever said or intimated in any way that your children are bad. If we choose to shield ours from Television, movies, revealing clothing, etc. that is our option and that should be respected.

As far as sports are concerned, I am not sure it would be a good idea until some of these issues among the parents are laid to rest, because there is a lot of competition; and anger and resentment can lead to injuries on the ball field for either side. So I would look forward to that some time in the future but not right now.

However, I would suggest a debate team, debating issues on current events. Science projects, or even a project on history such as Jewish roots that can be worked on together, where students from both arenas can interview the elderly to find out about their roots and combine the information in a documentary about the legacy of the Five Towns.

Such projects can be worked on separately at first under the guidance of their own individual schools and mentors and then be brought together, again with the guidence of the BOE and other appropriate staff. But in that way they can work together to do something positive, not work competitively against each other.

Yes debate teams would be a competition against each other, but it would still be a way to earn respect by learning how to "listen to understand",hear the other's perspective, and gain respect for the opposing team (maybe even learn something from them).

So the future of this neighborhood is really in the hands of our children. Maybe they can work it out better than we have so far. I have said it before and I say it again. We are all concerned about the Public School children, and want to see them succeed to their highest abilities and highest dreams. We want to see the Lawrence Public School system at their top form and a model for other schools to follow. We would like to bring it back to its glory days of the past. It can't hurt us at all if that happens, it can only help us, to see ALL the youth in the neighborhood succeed.

So I wish at this point to congratulate all the local GRADUATES, both from the Public Schools and Private schools. May you all go on to accomplish your goals and live your dreams!!!

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