To try and help clarify BH's point - to those who don't get the "homophobic might equal homosexual" thing.

I am a 100% gay man, never had a thought or fantasy that involved any part of a female’s anatomy. But you wouldn't have guessed it back in my
teenage years, not because I pretended to be a womanizer, but because I pretended that I hated "sissies" just as much as the next "straight" guy -
I'm embarrassed now to even think about some of the stuff I said back then, but hey - I was a stupid teenager just trying to fit in.

It was 'cool' to go along with the crowd, so when your buddies talked crap about someone for being a sissy or a faggot, you jumped on the bandwagon
too. It's called peer-pressure (I’m sure you've heard of it

)

I said some of the most hateful things about other people back then, just to make sure that the crosshairs of hate didn't focus in on me - I never
did anything physically to anyone, or even knew about any violence towards anyone because they appeared to be a sissy, but I knew they were to be
excluded from all the "reindeer games" - they were not normal and their feelings, physical welfare, and desire to be included were not even to be
considered when it came to the "do unto others" rule.

Everyone wants to fit in, I still find it hard to fit in - I don't conform to the "stereotype" that gay men are "supposed" to today - and I'm
talking about the gay definition of what gays should be like - I'm not "pretty enough" to be gay

I don't care for theater, Broadway, or
musicals, I don't care about fashion, decor, pop-culture, "product" for my hair, tanning, working out, Etc. . . I've never even had a "fag
hag", and I'm not resisting any urges to be part of any of that stuff, I just don't 'get it' - I feel like I'm not being a "good gay" -
but that's a thread of a different color, it probably fits into the "today's girl can't compete with the anorexic supermodel, therefore has bad
self esteem, and throws up everything she eats" genre.

I've never been to a gay bar, or any kind of gathering place meant for gay people, I'm afraid to - I want to - I want to meet other people like me,
but I can't get over the fear that something like what happened in that bar might happen to me too. - I deal with the depression of knowing what
society expects of a person with a penis to be and do, and feeling like all straight people must be disgusted with me, hate me, wish me harm - and
simply because of that, I didn't want to EVER tell anyone - not my parents, friends, doctors, employers - ANYONE! And to this day, I've only told a
handful of people my secret, and most of them have nothing to do with me anymore - and because of the efficient gossip-train here, I feel like
everyone knows now, which makes me want to hide in the house and never go anywhere anymore.

Feeling like that can make people do weird things - Like the girl that will play stupid because she thinks a guy won't like a girl as smart as him -
or the guy that acts too macho because he thinks, even though girls 'say' they like sensitive men, they 'really' like macho jerks.

Or how
about the guy that thought turning to the priesthood would stop him from having those thoughts about kids, only to find out that now he's in a
trusted position where he's got all the free access to kids he wants -

People do weird things to fit in, and sometimes when they think they aren't doing enough, or they just can't take hiding it anymore, they can go
over the edge.

Does that help clear up how someone that comes across as homophobic could in reality be a homosexual and just trying his best to keep it a secret?

Being homophobic and saying they hate gays is a defense mechanism. It stems from being afraid of regjection from family and a society that has told
them its bad to be gay. That is why it is important to teach our children tolerance so we can break this cycle of hate that our parents taught us.

SWhere did u learn such B.s? Beibng homophobic,l doesn't mean u are acloset case, and lash out at other gay people, that's the most nonsensical
thing, i have ever heard, first of all, put away, all christian, dogma aside. it'ws wrong!~ Senseless violence is Wrong! But I guess this guy got
edgy as he saw that the revelant authorities wasn't doing anything about them? No? Another thing, why they the State, allow this slackness to
prosper? And who says this is a freedom of expression? That's like the disgusting thing, called swinger parties and those ilk

I went to the trouble of finding the studies for you. If you're really interested, you'll have to read them yourself. It's all there. Unless
it makes you uncomfortable to read about it.

I did go through your links but here is why I think they are flawed.

What you have to understand is that most men don't care if two women, or two women and a man have sexual intercourse, most are only bothered by two
males having sex. Now if you want to discuss why this hypocrisy exists then your are welcomed to do so, but showing a man a video of two lesbians and
calling him gay because he gets aroused over it is laughable.

What you may also not understand is that for men getting aroused is not something you think about and decide, its difficult to control, it’s almost
a natural reaction to sexual imagery or what have you. And I think you can trust me on that.

These excerpts are from your links.

In Prof. Adams's test, homophobic men who said they were exclusively heterosexual were shown gay sex videos. Four out of five became sexually
aroused by the homoerotic imagery, as recorded by a penile circumference measuring device (a plethysmograph).

In talking with 10 different guys, I have concluded that, on average, eight of those 10 guys have previously or currently watched porn involving
either two girls, or two girls and a guy.

Heres what i don't understand ...why is it any crime commicted against gay people or people of different races is considered a "hate crime", but to
anyone else that is white people and women in general is "just" a crime...

Now ... are there really crimes than can be called "love-crimes" ??? does any act of crime come out of love ? so why the differenciation...whats
makes the crimes against these people more special than others?

Hmm, point taken. but here this, what will any of u, guys get aroused, seeing two males having sex, in a porno video, u are watching? Comeon? what
the??? hell!! That's dumb. What arouses me, is seeing the all natural feminity of women, that's what.

Being homophobic and saying they hate gays is a defense mechanism. It stems from being afraid of regjection from family and a society that has told
them its bad to be gay. That is why it is important to teach our children tolerance so we can break this cycle of hate that our parents taught us.

SWhere did u learn such B.s? Beibng homophobic,l doesn't mean u are acloset case, and lash out at other gay people, that's the most nonsensical
thing, i have ever heard, first of all, put away, all christian, dogma aside. it'ws wrong!~ Senseless violence is Wrong! But I guess this guy got
edgy as he saw that the revelant authorities wasn't doing anything about them? No? Another thing, why they the State, allow this slackness to
prosper? And who says this is a freedom of expression? That's like the disgusting thing, called swinger parties and those ilk

Hold up there now I wasnt saying what he did was ok. Im just trying to shed some light as to why he and lots of others like him commit hate crimes.
There are lots of Homophobes but they dont go around shooting people but this guy did would it make you more comfortable if he were just crazy? Ok
then why did he ask if it was a gay bar first if he were just crazy I dont think that would have mattered. And where are you getting this christian
dogma crap from.Did I say any thing about god? NO! Did I quote stuff like love thy neighbor? No! I wasnt try to defend this guy, but you need to
realize that most angry homobhobes are closet cases afraid that the world will reject them because of how they secretly feel.

Somehow, I don't see Jacob D. Robida fitting the model of a homosexual trying to fit in with a homophobic crowd. There really hasn't been any
substantive information released regarding Robida, except that he had "Nazi regalia" in his bedroom. I suppose if he were trying to impress some
neo-Nazi group, he might have succeeded but it's unlikely that he will be hobnobbing with many of those folks for very much longer.

Of course, there are those who are now pointing the finger at everyone who opposes gay marriage or considers homosexual behavior as being immoral as
being the root cause of the crime, rather than putting the blame precisely where it belongs, which is to say, Jacob D. Robida.

Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, blamed gay-bar attack on the "Christian right," from national
leaders like the Rev. Pat Robertson to local conservatives who fought same-sex marriage in the state.

"We have witnessed seven years of vicious anti-LGBT organizing in Massachusetts -- and endured the hate-filled rantings of Brian Camenker of the
Article 8 Alliance and Parents Rights Coalition and Ed Pawlick of MassNews," Foreman said on Thursday. "The blood spilled this morning is on their
hands."

Most notably, we've had the President of the United States telling the entire nation in his State of the Union address (last year) that gays are
subhuman. Marriage has to be "protected" from gays. And surely if the President thinks that gays can't be treated equally, it must be okay to hate
them, right?

How about the president plus a few dozen state legislatures? With so many states passing laws and amendments specifically to ensure that gays cannot
be treated equally and fairly under the law, including prohibiting them from getting married, attaining even the same protections as marriage, or in
some cases even securing even the same insurance benefits for their partners that heterosexuals can get just for the asking, is it really that hard to
conceive that someone watching could get the impression that it's okay to treat gays as though they were less valued than straights?

And what of the anti-gay hate industry, primarily Focus on the "Family", the American "Family" Association and the Concerned "Women" for
America, who can't even let a cartoon sponge be seen on television without having an apoplectic conniption fit? They live and breathe by the notion
that somewhere, some gay person might be seen on television or heard on the radio or might write something.

Don’t look for any condemnation of this type of violence from our nation’s self-appointed Christian leaders, though. They have systematically
taught this nation’s youth that attacks on gays are OK.

From constitutional amendments barring same-sex marriage to Congress’ stubborn refusal to pass federal hate crimes or employment discrimination
protections, to the harsh anti-gay venom preached by so-called evangelical Christians, this country continues to send a dangerous message that
attacking the rights of gays and lesbians is acceptable.

I cannot deny that there are very vocal anti-gay groups in America and shamefully, some are also religiously oriented, but those who are trying to
paint American culture as being the root cause, when in fact, American culture has undergone dramatic changes in only a few decades, even if the most
radical demands of the homosexual community still meet with resistance, are doing nothing more than alienating even more from their cause or agenda,
if that word is better suited.

Someone here chastised me for an earlier post in which I said that this incident is a lame excuse for attacking American culture, but we didn't have
to wait very long for such attacks to appear in print. But, of course, the prudent among us know that there are those who, in the mold of Cindy
Sheehan and Sarah Brady, will use any tragedy to further a political cause.

Someone here chastised me for an earlier post in which I said that this incident is a lame excuse for attacking American culture, but we didn't have
to wait very long for such attacks to appear in print. But, of course, the prudent among us know that there are those who, in the mold of Cindy
Sheehan and Sarah Brady, will use any tragedy to further a political cause.

That was me Grady, and I'm sorry you felt that I chastised you, that definitely wasn't my intent. I just wanted to make sure you understood that
nobody on this thread had blamed American culture. I think almost all of us are on the same page here, in thinking this attack was the product of one
sick mind, and all the responsibility lies with the guy who actually wielded the weapons.

One poster said, (I'm paraphrasing) that despite the enormous tolerance exhibited by Western culture for alternative lifestyles, hate still exists.
That's certainly true, I don't think there's even any wiggle room for argument. That's the only point I was trying to reinforce with my earlier
post.

Originally posted by Kacen
It dosen't have to be all or nothing like most people think.

Nobody here has even implied that. Not even close.

Internal Homophobia (the psychological term) is a real issue. Many people hate homosexuals because of the fear and loathing of their own sexuality.
The most outspoken and violent men against homosexuality many times end up 'coming out' at a later time.

I'm not here to prove it, but I've read a lot of information on it and there's plenty more out there.

The question was asked by WP23 (paraphrasing) Why do people say this? And I answered it. It's because of the condition of Internalized Homophobia.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
What you may also not understand is that for men getting aroused is not something you think about and decide, its difficult to control, it’s almost
a natural reaction to sexual imagery or what have you. And I think you can trust me on that.

Oh, I know that.

I knew that before you were born.

And I referenced a study that put the number of homophobic gay people at 80%. My words:

The numbers of homophobics who are gay is said to be up to 80%.

I'm not personally claiming 80%, as I don't have the information to back that up, but I am claiming that it's greater than zero. It's a commonly
known condition in the gay community for people to 'hate gays' before they come out. It's many times part of the process. I'm not here to convince
you of anything. I just answered the question you asked.

I don't really care whether this young criminal is gay or not it is a senseless crime of violence against a group that he decided he hated. I hope
he is caught and sentenced to a nice long prison term but I also hope he gets mental help while in prison.

I hope he is caught and sentenced to a nice long prison term but I also hope he gets mental help while in prison.

I'm quite sure his term in prison will also endorse his hatred for homosexuality more. I'm sure you're all quite aware that young boys in prison
never fair well...

Regardless, this was an intolerable act of hatred, but should further be subdivided as to what caused this young man to act in such a fashion; was it
nuerological? Was it his own hatred for his homosexuality as some here have suggested, and if so, what would lead him to believe that attacking
homosexuals would somehow dismantle his own homosexuality? Was he under the influence of drugs?

This case will have legs for some time to come. I'm sure we're going to learn a lot about Jacob D. Robida before this is all over. I'm going to
bet that Greta Van Susteren will make a lot of hay on this one until he is captured, at least.

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