We’re not Self-Made. We’re Made by Interdependence.

“Innumerable labors brought us this food, may we know how it comes to us. Let us receive this as a blessing. Let us consider whether our life and efforts honor it. Let us aspire to a calm mind and heart and be free from greed, hate and delusion.” ~ Buddhist Meal Blessing

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I absolutely agree with the Dalai Lama. But the comment underneath? "Fraid not. I don't see govt building of things as an appropriate application. (Govt built infrastructure as a social good is strongly implied in the title to this article and the inclusion of govt on the list of social ties)

Back in the 19th c., when govt spending for infrastructure was called 'internal improvements,' there was a strong feeling that govt shouldn't be involved. The pre-Civil War debacle in govt canal-building only strengthened the feeling and led all states but two to pass anti-internal improvement constitutional amendments.

But the post-war power of the central govt made state declarations irrelevant and it got to work carrying out the 1860 Republican campaign promises to build infrastructure. It started with govt-built railroads in the West, where there weren't enough people to justify free market railroads. What resulted was massive and shoddy over-building, massive debt and several depressions, land and cattle boom-and-busts, wars against the Plains Indians and theft of their lands, giveaways of (as I recall) a total land mass the size of Texas to railroads, and a resulting anti-people arrogance wielded by the hugely powerful railroads.

We responded not by getting rid of the idea of govt-built infrastructure but by taking the idea to the next level. In 1916, the idea that it was govt's job to build infrastructure for cars, in order to free us from the "evil clutches of railroad capitalism," became nat'l policy. The result was the rise of Carworld and decline and collapse not only of railroads but of interurbans (what we now call 'light rail'). American interurbans were the best mass transit system in the world. Not the best at the time, the best in history, better than anything, actually, in Europe or Japan even now.

Replacing the mostly privately built interurban system with Carworld destroyed not only the interurbans themselves but also Downtown and Main Street. Compact multi-use communities in both town and city disappeared as they are not conducive to the smooth running of the automobile. Wildlands and farmlands were pushed far from city limits. And oil became king to feed the car.

So no, I'm not happy that govt took on the infrastructure project. We can do much better by ourselves. And do it without building up massive debt.

Whoops! By 'comment underneath,' I did not mean Janet or Lori's wonderful comment. I meant the comment in the article proper. I'm just an anti-carworld guy so I had to say something about the implication that our infrastructue is a wonderulf thing.. Hope no offense is taken at Elephant!

Interesting…We, as in all human beings born in Eastern or Western (but not necessarily primitive tribal) cultures in the last 2000 years, have not known what it would be like to live without government. I've heard people say, "Then move to Somalia", but that Country Has Had the influence of multiple governments as well, and especially a government that disrupted its natural cultural development centuries ago. So, sorry, doesn't count as a state of "no government…influence".

But, what the Dalai Lama states here is true, regardless of the presence or non-presence of government. In fact, I would suggest, as I do in this article: http://theblueturtleblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/hed… the government actually stands in the way of our acknowledging and interacting more humanely towards one another.

Lori, I just checked out your Blue Turtle Blog on "trimming the hedges." I recommend it to anyone here. In fact, I'd suggest you offer it to Ele as a contribution.

As for being stateless, yeah, "Move to Somalia and see how you like it!" People proposing something like anarchy or, as you put it on your blog, anti-statism, hear that I lot I imagine.

Here's something, though. A year or so ago, the London Times, I think it was (not exactly an anarchist rag!) went to Somalia to examine in detail what ten (or whatever number it is) years of anarchy have done to that country. Surprise! Since anarchy started, and despite all the terrible things we read in the press, something has been happening in Somalia that never happened before. Economic growth, of all things. And along with the growth, rising standards of living, decreasing poverty, increasing education, more babies born live and healthy…

The fighting and violence between warlords, the London Times claims, seems not to be a result of anarchy but rather the result of gangs fighting for U.N. money. But the money itself, does not seem to be trickling down to where the people are. Rather the growth comes from people completely freed of taxes and restrictions pursuing their own good.

Can't remember what the Times said about piracy, but for the average person, anarchy or non-statism seems to be a blessing in Somalia.

Don't quote me on any of this. It's all from memory and my mind is a leaky sieve. But that's the gist.

Good day to you Lori and good luck on your fascinating if challenging project.

Thanks, Mark. That's very generous of you. I've never tried to submit anything to Ele before, but I will take your advice and look into it. Thanks for the Very Interesting comments on Somalia as well. I may follow-up with some research of my own. : )

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