UMECUnited Mining Exploration Commission: A group of friends playing JumpGate-- "a MMORPG that launched smoothly, breaks from fantasy character setting, emphasizes PvP, and is the first persistent world space simulator that nobody talks about." ~Scorch

As mentioned here, upkeep prices will with the current EP2 patch be identical to US. Take note that US is taking concentrated efforts to alter their economy to reduce farming etc. In the end, the upkeep issue might become a universal thing, discounting cash still available in players from the farming days.

I see spindoctoring...

GMHollis wrote:

Erm, perhaps I misunderstood you. What Toast wrote is true, and this is what I repeated. In the initial patch, there will be no possibilities allowing MightyGames to alter the upkeep costs. These will arrive a bit later.

Actually, they've been quite up front with us by saying all along that the upkeep costs were going to be extremely high. I bought a 2-pt station, with a refuel module and an ore depot, and my upkeep is going to be an easily manageable 1.150 million. I knew right from the start that I wouldn't be able to afford a huge station, and I also knew I couldn't play as much to afford it either. I thought about a 4-pt station, but until I save more money I'm fine with what I have now.

Unlike some of the people that I've seen placing stations, the very first thing I looked for were the upkeep costs. Some people just seem to automatically want to have the biggest and best POS out there, yet don't want to actually pay the money for it.

Just buy what you can afford. Would I like to be able to afford some of the stuff that the matter farmers can? Sure I would. But if it helps to get some of the money out of this game, then I don't have a problem with it

Ridgeway wrote:

8 prosthetic flights a week. Bit more than 20 minutes effort a day. For the biggest g'dang thing possible? Please, cut down the whine and cheese here. The kneedeep irony is that the people complaining there asses off are those that only knew how to make a few credits with MC farms. Well wake up guys, use a market lister and visit more than the same 2 stations time and time again. I think PoS upkeep currently is perfectly fine, even a tad low on some modules - and thats coming from one of the poorer squads around.

So even a seasoned casual player can afford an 8 point. 20 minutes a day is really on the casual side - split it up on any sizable squad and you've got ~1-2 minutes per member. Shrugs.

thing is i hope they FIX "farming" and the rest of the economy so we can lower the stupid high costs involved...either that or accept the economy is busted and the cash sinks will only harm those who refuse to farm. Sad isn't it? in one fell swoop the "pro-farmers" will have the psychological advantage in any flame wars. (no wonder FS_Mr_Kat quit)

too bad the silly pussy forgot that hope springs eternal. perhaps one day ND will take the nonpvp side of things seriously...until then we can only play with something that's sufficient to be classed as a player influenced economy.

[SPAM]Navy wrote:

GM_Josh, if your gonna keep the maintenance costs the same on the POS, can you please turn back on matter farming. That is the only way we can afford the damn things!

Last edited by MajorFreak on Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:14 pm; edited 11 times in total

First off, it doesn't make it quite clear...Do the ship hangers require that you have enough just for people to dock? Or can people dock even if you don't have a ship hanger. Meaning, are ship hangers simply for you to store your ships, or do you need enough space just for your squad, pilots granted access, or room for the public to dock?

Secondly, it states that you lose your investment if you destroy your station but do you lose it if you remove modules?

Last, but not least....Does anyone have any beer? I got drunk just before EP2 came out and ran out during the 3 hour wait ....not that I'm complaining....

Thanks in advance

THE Nuro

Bushi wrote:

The ship Hanger MOD is a wholly seperate entity from the number of ships which can dock at your PoS. The Hanger is, as Alph stated, just for the owner, or their squadmates (of the same faction) to use for storing a ship.

Even if you don't have any Hangers, folks can dock and use your PoS.

Also, once you outfit a MOD to your PoS, it's permenant. If you remove it, you loose the cash for it.

You can upsize your PoS, but you can't DownSize it. And removing of anything from your PoS results in, at the very least, a total loss of any invested monies. And you'll be happy to know that -=MACK=- stocks beers from around the Galaxy at many of our fine PoS establishments.

POS market problem
So only the owner of a POS can "sell" equipment to the station market. Sounds fine, however....

What happens when a pilot lands at my POS and accidentally buys one too many missiles, such that he is over his cargo limit?

I'll tell you what happens, he can't launch and is stuck in the POS until another pilot with more cargo space comes and rescues him! We tested this last night, and my squadmate had to wait for me to trade the stuff from him. If I had set the station access to squad only, and the rest of the squad had logged, he would have had to log for the night. This seems like a pretty obvious problem. Is there something I'm missing, or is there really this big of a problem?

ND, you need to let pilots sell to the station, or at least GIVE stuff to the station. Especially if it's an item the player JUST BOUGHT!

I agree with all of this. Essentially, the argument for no sales to a POS is that a pilot could sell as many Instigators as possible to a Station, to leave the owner having to haul them out. This leaves the owner vulnerable to piracy and griefing. While i agree that this should be prevented the current solution is very inconvenient. I would like to set permissions for who the station can buy off.

for example: /trustpilot {pilotname} - should allow the station to buy any item from the named pilot. [insert disclaimer for coding time]

Kenndog wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of:

/setstock {item} {quantity}

so, for example:

/setstock Instigator 10

That would limit the number of Instigators in the station to 10 (or the current limit of the station market). The default would be 0 (so that no one is allowed to sell at all). If the station owners drops 122 Flashfires, the number automatically gets set to 122. This way if someone accidentally buys one, and wants to sell it back, he can.

If I hire -=Mack=- to deliver 25 Havens, then I can
/setprice Haven {contract price per unit}
/setstock Haven 25

As for selling noob gear, TRI should use their magical "teleport refined ore" powers to spirit that garbage away.

VALEN wrote:

If your squad /homes at a station, and they pod back to that station, how do they sell the n00b gear they are automatically given?

Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Today while sorting arties I lost CB-3s which we over-written with the EB-1s I had moved from storage back to the tow. Contrary to the quote above, though, no new arties were created.

Also, I put S1 PP on the market without problems but both RB-1 and RB-3 repair beams dissappeared when I tried them. After that I stopped since I was pretty sure it wasn't lag.

Also, putting PoS Station ModXs into inventory caused some problems. 1 got transformed to a ModX we already had mounted and a second one disappeared. It was an expensive lesson.

I'm not sure what the problem may be but perhaps there is some sort of stack or array or something causing the problem. The one thing I know is that we have often run out of inventory slots because the tow only allows so many different KINDS of items in a tow (i.e. there are inventory slots available but can't be used because we have 1 of too many different inds of items).

Anyway, I reported the bug for the arties and stn modx in the bug report forum, too, so hopefully it all gets resolved shortly.

Also, I'd like to take a minute to thank everyone who has worked on EP2 to get it ready. For such a major release I am pleasantly surprized at how few issues there have been. I voted for taking time to make it bug free as possible and would have to say that compared to any other MMORPG this has been smoother than any other I have encountered and that includes most others minor updates (let alone 1 of this magnitude!), so you guys get a big "two udders up" from the cow!

First let me ask you guys this. Would you rather have prices set too high to begin with and then lowered or too low and then raised. More people would throw a fit about prices going up in a couple weeks then going down. Chances are ND failed on the conservative side. Which if you read Archon's comments they will probably reduce some of the upkeep costs.

Second to everyone complaining about placing stations. The info was on the Jossh Flight Academy link at the beginning of the EP2 release. Last I checked in the real world not reading a speed limit sign won't get you out of the speeding ticket because you thought the speed limit was higher. Same goes for the POS info was available. Yes there are some bugs which will be fixed.

Third, all the talks I've seen were that everyone would be able to have a station but the large stations would require teamwork from a squad to maintain. This has happened. The 8 point stations were designed not for the matter farmers but for squad use to hold equipment for equiping ships.

Fourth, you complain about the price of a hanger well at 10% tax everytime you have to switch between a Fighter, Tow, Ranger, and Light Miner/Transport. How much money do you lose. Especially once these new ships come out with the size 5, 6 and 7 pieces of equipment. The hangers are designed so you don't have to worry about always paying that tax and swapping ships becomes easy. The other thing it does means you don't have to worry about a station not having an item you need to fully equip out your new ship.

Fifth, are stations profitable. Not really, the markets aren't designed to make money unless the person is in dire need of an item, an arti, or refuel/repair/rearm. But those depend on location refuel/rearm/repair will probably be the most profitable as long as it is placed in a good location but if there are 50 gas stations in a sector because every pilots has a POS then they are not profitable. The market modx was designed for the arti hunters to sell arti's when they are not online or for squads to have a stocked station for re-equiping. They are not to make a profit because who in there right mind will dock at a station charging 15% tax when they can dock at any station for less than 10% tax.

sixth quit your whining and come up with constructive arguements. The developers are not going to change something so that you get your way. It doesn't work like that in the real world and it doesn't work in Jumpgate. Come up with a solution for your complaint that is possible. The comments on repair/refuel/rearm are good and they will probably be taken into account. But posts like it costs too much for me to get what I want will not work. We would all like a nice big house, car and such but we won't get them through whining we get them through hard work or luck if you win the lottery. So please try to be constructive in your arguements. Otherwise the GMs, developers and people like me and WileE have to go BrB because we're tired of hearing a bunch of crap. The other thing is if you don't like it you can always leave. It is the great thing about America and about Jumpgate. If you don't like what they are doing you don't have to pay the $9.95 a month Otherwise you have a voice as long as you are reasonable about it.

Sykosys000 wrote:

Heh seems fine
The actual upkeep seems like a fine idea. It keeps space from becomming to cluttered with POS and at the same time makes an 8 point station a rarity. Only the really large wealthier squads can actually support an 8 pointer. Also what I've noticed everyone complaining about is the actual Hanger mod. Yes the upkeep for that mod is enormous. I really don't know what to say cause personally I don't need that. I mean does the "CASUAL" gamer need a hanger mod??

A 2 mod station is insanely affordable to the "CASUAL" gamer. a 2 mod 1 repair and 1 refuel station costs only 800k creds a week. Thats 1 GOOD cargo run of COMMODS!!!!! I like the way its set up........for now anayways.

POS orientation
Is there any information available about the orientation of a newly built station in relation to the ship that built it? Is orientation random? Or does it depend on where the ship is facing?

For example, if I build a station while facing oct core, will my docking tube face oct core? or 180 degrees away from oct core? somewhere else? Would be nice to know before I build mine And is this orientation chosen differently for each size station?

[Spam]Navy wrote:

Since I already built mine I know a little about it. VALEN built his before i built mine. I rotated around until the orientation of VALENS station was verticle on my radar. I then faced the gate in the sector hoping the entry would also face the gate. When I placed it, my station was oriented the same as VALENs as it was verticle the same way as his was when I placed mine. The station docking rings however face away from the gate i was facing when placing it. If I were to do it again, I would try to face away from the gate and see if that works. Not too much info but at least a little info from someone who already placed.

Anguish wrote:

We never bothered to pursue this detail, but I think the conclusion was that all stations point the same way. Could be wrong; we didn't try THAT hard to study it.

[Spam]Navy wrote:

Why did I think this thread was gonna be a lecture on all the ins and outs of a PoS?

Someone ought to be writing all these questions down and creating a nice "PoS 101 Guide". I would but Im too damn lazy!

has the /setprice bug been fixed yet?
Has the /setprice bug been fixed yet? I was wondering because I'm looking forward to opening up the station to a wider market so that I can sell gear to help pay for the station upkeep, but I don't want to lose the money for taxes + profit.

Also..why not have a 4th listing for the PoS allowing only faction ships to dock?

Grinder wrote:

Me and Grimgriz tested this tonight and it is still bugged. I had set my purgs for 10k, and only got 8500 out of the purg he bought....

Actually GM_Josh said on the dev speak on IRC, that he was analyzing the situation of increasing cargo space as it relates to memory being used on the server. He said that the PoS have a relatively low memory footprint, so we will likely get an increase in capacity in the PoS markets.

Just an FYI.

wrote:

Whatever Josh told you about memory and whatnot is a load of crock - it has always been known that huge PoS storage is technically possible. The reason for the 'small' sizes was

storage accounts are income

if large storage PoS are too cheap, its a huge invitation to griefing tactics

the lack of centralisation creates this problem, if a ~50m PoS (market+2point) allows me to store equip for months the whole thing will be amplified by several times - storage sizes as of now are useful for any large group (~50 fighters stored easily), but too expensive to abuse. Of course, I'm not saying he wouldn't go ahead on this - short term thinking is very popular at ND, as proven by the last-minute move from the freighter designed for heavy loads exclusively towards the current one that outdoes a tow at anything and really anything.

The thing with Hangars is that although they are available for those pilots who have their own stations, I foresee the most likely use being for squads to allow them to quickly move between ships. Now a squad can surely afford 5 million a week if they think about it.

That doesn't mean that it isolates single pilots as well though, Single pilots who can afford a hangar and to fill it with ships will surely for example have a tow for trading, a fighter for fluxxing / pvp, maybe a ranger for arte hunting and a miner for mining.

If they have setups for all these ships, they have a very easy way to make at least 5 million a week. Even by selling artefacts on their POS they can make that amount very easily.

And due to the capabilities a pilot or squad will have being able to change a ship from their POS instead of from a home station, the cost reflects the usefulness of the module.

3) Approx. 2000 Common, 200 Ice, 200 Rad, 200 Semi a week if you sell for cash at POS, or profit from trading commods at levels you decide. HM can easily do 200 common in 15 minutes easy. Park your Miner POS next to someone elses Grav. Factory POS and sell him the commods at 50% markup, he dont have to make a big trip and you make a VERY good return on investment.

4) Dont know how the Factory modules are gonna work yet but I am sure they will turn a profit commensurate with their 70mil price tag.

If you still cant figure out how your gonna pay for your POS then the answer is simple, dont buy one. Youve managed until now without one, and if they are THAT expensive youll be better off without one

How do you "trade" a ship into the hanger? Bottom line: Can you have multiple ship types (i.e., a tow, ranger, miner, and fighter) docked at the same time at your POS, fully outfitted for use? Are all faction ship types available when you install a hanger mod? If not, how do you make them available??

Solfrann wrote:

OK, here's what happens. You Select "Ship Configuration" or wahtever the button is, you then look up to where you would normally find different ship types to buy(i can't remember what the buttons called). You basically "sell" your ship to your hanger, and switch it for a newbie shuttle. Then, you fly to one of your faction's stations, buy a new ship just like you normally would, fly it back to your station, switch it for one of the other newb shuttles and repeat. The extra ships you have stored in your station show up like the ships do in faction stations where you would normally buy them, except instead of buying them, you already own them and you are just trading them in and out of your hanger. All faction ships are not available, just your own.

A note about today's mining change
Prior to today's change ore that was sold to a player's station was directed to the core station of that player's faction, instead the ore's various components will now be sent to your home faction's storage depot to allow pilots to pick up the cargo and move it where they choose.

If you wish to sell your own proccessed ore, then the PoS with an ore module is useful. If you wish to work in a sector, and smelt down your ore to it's commods before going to a TRI station to sell, then its useful. If not, then its a waste.