Based on reports from an unnamed NVIDIA partner, a PC Enthusiast website has controversially concluded that Apple's next Mac mini will be using NVIDIA's Ion platform, which pairs NVIDIA's 9400M system controller and integrated GPU with Intel's low power Atom processor.

Writing for Tom's Hardware, Tuan Nguyen said that Apple was among the earliest recipients of NVIDIA's Ion samples, reporting that the company "received prototype units long before Nvidia partners who opted to work on Ion." The article's headline calls the move to Ion in the Mac mini "confirmed," but earlier reports from trusted sources seem to conflict with this notion.

Ion and Atom

NVIDIA's new Ion platform uses the same 9400M system controller used in the MacBook and MacBook Pro, which takes the place of both the Northbridge and Southbridge controller chips used in earlier Intel Macs (such as those using Intel's Santa Rosa platform), as well as handling integrated graphics processing.

NVIDIA's GPU experience gives the all-in-one controller significantly better graphics performance than Intel's GMA-series of integrated graphics chips that Apple had been using, and the 9400M even stacks up fairly well against the performance of decent discrete GPU processors.

However, Intel's Atom processor is designed to be a low cost, energy efficient x86-compatible GPU intended to compete against embedded processors such as ARM. Moving the Mac mini from its existing Core 2 Duo CPU to an Atom processor would appear to result in a drastic reduction in performance.

Ion uses the new dual-core Atom 330, which runs at 1.6 GHz and uses a 533MHz front side bus for RAM. The current Mac mini uses a 64-bit Core 2 Duo running at 1.83 or 2 GHz, and 667 MHz RAM. The Atom processor line (which includes the chip originally referred to as Silverthorne) has advanced rapidly as Intel works to take on the low power market now dominated by ARM licensees, but is no match for Intel's mainstream, full power desktop processors.

OpenCL to the rescue?

The trade off to a slower CPU might be possible were Apple able to pass more of the Mac mini's processing load to the relatively fast GPU, using the company's brand new OpenCL technology. Moving to Ion would give Apple the potential to deliver a cheaper mini, with NVIDIA throwing around numbers closer to $400 for simple Ion-based "desktop netbook" computer.

However, OpenCL is part of the still unreleased Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6. While it should be able to dramatically accelerate some functions that work well on a GPU, such as HD video processing, it can't magically shift the majority of system overhead to the GPU. An Ion-based Mac mini would likely be a huge downgrade from the current model in basic GPU performance, which might not fly with Apple's customers even at a significantly lower price.

Additionally, other evidence suggests that the next Mac mini will not go the route of the netbook. Last month, AppleInsider reported on internal references to new Mac mini and iMac models using the same NVIDIA MCP79 platform found in the last year's series of unibody notebooks. That would indicate an NVIDIA 9400M GPU paired with an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU.

Other reliable sources have also said that the Mac mini refresh is intended to occur earlier than the March date cited in the Ion report. Additionally, rather than being a stripped down mini-computer, other sources have maintained that the next Mac mini will be as full featured as the existing model, with dual display connectors, FW800, and an additional fifth USB 2.0 port.

Apple TV to go Ion?

It's still possible Apple will be using the Ion platform elsewhere, and a prime candidate could well be Apple TV. It currently uses a low power, 1 GHz Intel Pentium Crofton CPU, so moving to the new dual core Atom 330 and a better GPU would be an upgrade.

Apple still isn't making any money on Apple TV, with tear down reports suggesting that it sells the existing unit nearly at its materials cost. The power of the NVIDIA 9400M GPU would mean the unit no longer needs its standalone NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 GPU, but could still decode HD video.

It's also possible that Apple is targeting a new low cost, low power computer at emerging markets, and planning to leave the Apple TV and Mac mini with more evolutionary, incremental updates.

I called this in the other thread when NVidia announced the Ion at CES. (Complete with pictures of it on a mac mini). Fact is, the atom + 9400m simply can't play most 1080p formats. I find it highly sad if this even makes it in the AppleTV or Mini.

Not out of speculation on anything that's coming out, because it seems that the mini is considered a pain for Apple to continue doing as it wants to maintain its luxury status, but here's what I'd like to see:

A solid performer, slightly above other small form factor desktops available, the ability to hold 4 gigs of ram or more, and an expandable spot for a harddrive and/or firewire 800. If only firewire 800 is used, an additional ministack (as they sell now) with a power pass through port for expandability. If made specifically for the mini, the port could be on the bottom of the mini, so if you need more room then you just stack it beneath and it maintains a clean footprint, no extra wires.

The reason for this is so it can hold lots of media. With the digital switch, everyone has plasmas and LCD's, (maybe with the converter too, I don't know) that allow these to be used as monitors. Now people want to use their new monitors/TV's to do all sorts of neat stuff, that's where the mini comes in. It does internet, it plays DVD's, all on the same screen you already have, and possibly looks and works better than that clunky windows desktop with the analog monitor you still have kicking around (of course it runs windows too).

Now that's cool, but what if instead of Front Row, for an upgraded price (or included), you could also have it operate as an Apple TV, with its simple little remote, you can order whatever movie you want from Apple's growing library, negating a separate several hundred dollar device that doesn't sell that well (but could still be sold separately, or used to up-sell to the new mini), and allowing you to do all sorts of content/web crossover. Plus it plays your files from other networked macs, can be used for a photo slideshow and all the stuff an Apple TV does, and what the hell, you can buy boxee for it too and then never leave the couch. Want more remote, but not a keyboard by the TV? Control your computer/theater through a virtual keyboard on your iphone/touch similar to how remote app works now.

Have an internal BluRay player/DVD/extra hard drive option, or if not Blu Ray yet (bag of hurt) have the stackable ports so you can sell a plug-in BD drive later (that operates through fw800) so you can get that 1080p content, and just be sure you're not missing any hair-whisp level details. Plus its apple branded so it costs more and looks clean. And it locks in so there's no risk of it falling off if you pick it up. Oh and a mini app store for games for ATV and ATVmini. Free stuff and time wasters that it doesn't take a PS3 to display with pretty good enough graphics. If the mini finds itself connected to a lot of TV's, then it's going to attract a lot of game developers to the Apple platform, no harm in that so long as they keep the games within the mini's specs for display, and people don't feel disappointed in its performance.

That's all with upgrades, but there's still the base model that's a cut above the other mini-desktops, it's cheap for server use, has very little media stuff for office use (also cheap) and functions as a cheap mac entry point for switchers, poor people who otherwise can't afford a nice, stable machine so they may advance, and for the elderly to play mini-games.

And to go the distance, it could be the mystery WOW! project mentioned in another thread; possibly the return of the Newton?!?

And by that, I mean the Mac touch!

Nah.

Apple is pretty much firmly committed to ARM chips for it's portables (other than the laptops). It's hard to believe that Apple would have any use for the Atom. If the article isn't a complete error, it's much more likely that this is for the AppleTV.

In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...

Depending on if FW is included and a Superdrive a $399 Atom based
mini would be merely passable.

I doubt it'd run iLife very well and i'm not banking on OpenCL gaining any real
traction until 10.7.

It would make for a nice basic web surfing box and iWork and other productivity apps. Though I think there's a snowballs chance that Apple actually delivers a $400 computer.
Odds are they attempt to pass this off as an acceptable $500 computer which would be a joke.

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.- SolipsismX

Depending on if FW is included and a Superdrive a $399 Atom based
mini would be merely passable.

I doubt it'd run iLife very well and i'm not banking on OpenCL gaining any real
traction until 10.7.

It would make for a nice basic web surfing box and iWork and other productivity apps. Though I think there's a snowballs chance that Apple actually delivers a $400 computer.
Odds are they attempt to pass this off as an acceptable $500 computer which would be a joke.

+1. To keep it at the same price points would be a slap in the face. I can't see the atom being quicker than what's in them now. How would they even market that? (not that apple's marketing is always 100% truthful in the first place).

Quote:

The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

Well, if it is an Ion platform, hmm, they make the Mac mini half the thickness, perhaps even less than an inch by using a 1.8" HDD. Imagine the external DVD for the MBA, and add half an inch to the bottom. You also lose half the ports.

The 3 people I know who bought an Apple TV all have the same thing to say... Apple TV Sucks!
All 3 of them returned them.
2 bought a mac mini.

They hated them because they couldn't stream anything but quicktime media to them. They were not about to spend years converting all their media to quicktime/h264.
Nor did they want to hack the box and void warranty.

Apple could sell a hundred million of them tomorrow if they opened up the Apple TV to play other media.
Unfortunately, they wont, insisting on cramming their losing format down people's throat in a business where they only have 7-8% of market share.

Microsoft is going to release the exact same box, except it will be able to play divx, avi, wmv, and quicktime. Where will that leave the Mac Mini which almost everyone I know who has one is using it as a media box?
Dead is where.

Apple needs to drop all the DRM crap. iPod's, their new laptops, Apple TV... so polluted with DRM that they all suck.
They allowed themselves to be sucked into DRM by content providers. Now is the time to do an about face and tell the content providers to go to hell. Apple would sell much more hardware and more profits then what they currently make distributing content.

Things don't look good for Apple. I'm starting to think iTunes could be the slow death of Apple, unless they open it up.

I was really hoping they (Apple) would go the other way with processors, not backwards. Lately all of these rumors of MacMini, iMac, etc updates have been false. For our sake, I hope this one is wrong as well for being used in a MacMini. Using it in a netbook or something is fine, but not in a consumer desktop computer. This would be a huge mistake and after waiting over 2yrs for an update, this would be extremely disappointing for a lot of users, me included.

The 3 people I know who bought an Apple TV all have the same thing to say... Apple TV Sucks!
All 3 of them returned them.
2 bought a mac mini.

They hated them because they couldn't stream anything but quicktime media to them. They were not about to spend years converting all their media to quicktime/h264.
Nor did they want to hack the box and void warranty.

Apple could sell a hundred million of them tomorrow if they opened up the Apple TV to play other media.
Unfortunately, they wont, insisting on cramming their losing format down people's throat in a business where they only have 7-8% of market share.

Microsoft is going to release the exact same box, except it will be able to play divx, avi, wmv, and quicktime. Where will that leave the Mac Mini which almost everyone I know who has one is using it as a media box?
Dead is where.

Apple needs to drop all the DRM crap. iPod's, their new laptops, Apple TV... so polluted with DRM that they all suck.
They allowed themselves to be sucked into DRM by content providers. Now is the time to do an about face and tell the content providers to go to hell. Apple would sell much more hardware and more profits then what they currently make distributing content.

Things don't look good for Apple. I'm starting to think iTunes is the slow death of Apple.

The AppleTV may not be the best thing out there, and quite frankly I don't think there is a box out there that is.

Its easy to say Apple needs to drop DRM, but not so easy to implement it. Its not like Apple wants to use DRM, they're made to by the motion picture studios as far as movies go. Its probably the only way Apple is going to be able to sell video content on the iTunes Store. The iTunes Music Store is going all DRM Free very soon and you see how long it took for this to happen. The video, and TV show portion isn't going to be easy either. Its not as simple as just saying Apple needs to drop DRM. If it was, Apple would have done it ages ago. They have to know it effects some sales, but its a necessary evil to get everyone on board. However, this doesn't mean Apple shouldn't try to get DRM off other items on the store besides music.

iTunes is so far from dying its not funny. Its still far and away the best online music service out there. Apple sells TONS of TV shows, movies, audiobooks, etc everyday. Not to mention apps for your iPod Touch/iPhone. Just because you're disappointed with it, doesn't mean its crappy dying service.

The 3 people I know who bought an Apple TV all have the same thing to say... Apple TV Sucks!
All 3 of them returned them.
2 bought a mac mini.

They hated them because they couldn't stream anything but quicktime media to them. They were not about to spend years converting all their media to quicktime/h264.
Nor did they want to hack the box and void warranty.

Apple could sell a hundred million of them tomorrow if they opened up the Apple TV to play other media.
Unfortunately, they wont, insisting on cramming their losing format down people's throat in a business where they only have 7-8% of market share.

Microsoft is going to release the exact same box, except it will be able to play divx, avi, wmv, and quicktime. Where will that leave the Mac Mini which almost everyone I know who has one is using it as a media box?
Dead is where.

Apple needs to drop all the DRM crap. iPod's, their new laptops, Apple TV... so polluted with DRM that they all suck.
They allowed themselves to be sucked into DRM by content providers. Now is the time to do an about face and tell the content providers to go to hell. Apple would sell much more hardware and more profits then what they currently make distributing content.

Things don't look good for Apple. I'm starting to think iTunes could be the slow death of Apple, unless they open it up.

The Apple TV was never offered as the swiss army knife of media formats. It exists to reliably play back iTunes content. You can easily hack it to do more but iTunes content is its raison d'être. DRM is the inevitable solution to rampant stealing that people do in fact engage in. Without content you cannot sell hardware.

I wouldn't mind the Apple TV going to Atom as an interim solution but I'd love to see the next major upgrade move to ARM/PowerVR/VXD SoC

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.- SolipsismX

It is not necessary update (or, er, downdate) of existing product; it could be new product all together.

Though netbook seems most logical for me. Well, that is new product for Mac anyway... there's a chance to "innovate" - I'm not aware of any netbook running Ion so far. It can also carry higher price due to better performance (even if Ion itself is not significantly more expensive than current Atom platform).

I was expecting Apple will offer netbook/tablet combo with convertible touch screen, unfortunately for them Asus just did it. Opportunity missed.

Well, if it is an Ion platform, hmm, they make the Mac mini half the thickness, perhaps even less than an inch by using a 1.8" HDD. Imagine the external DVD for the MBA, and add half an inch to the bottom. You also lose half the ports.

Of course who in their right mind would buy such a computer?

Sad thing is, I can think of a few who would.

Look, if they want to say create a system for embedded platform that ran full Mac OS X (say Mac TV to replace AppleTV ), or a handled Mac (think hybrid tablet/netbook) then the Atom/Ion platform makes a lot of sense, then again neither would be a frontline computer.

As a replacement for the Mini this only makes sense if you're only goal is setting a Guinness book record for the smallest computer. If that's the case, then someone needs to put a leash on Ive.

Brilliant speculation - Apple will release a product that is slower than their last product! That's the way to impress your customers. At least it would confirm AI's long held insistence that Apple was adapting the Atom.

...However, Intel's Atom processor is designed to be a low cost, energy efficient x86-compatible GPU

Correction: The above article incorrectly uses "GPU" several times where "CPU" is in fact the correct term. A "GPU" is a Graphics Processing Unit, something the Atom most certainly is not. It is a Central Processing Unit. A casual mistake that may serve to misinform some readers.

To further elaborate, the new nVidia "Ion" platform based on their 9400M chipset does include a built-in, or integrated, GPU. Paired with an Atom CPU, this has been shown to perform graphics-intensive processes much better than the current generation of Intel motherboards found in Atom-based systems available now.

Anandtech.com has a recent article about this, if you need further details.

I could imagine a senario where you can purchase an Atom-based Mac Mini that is an AppleTV replacement at around $300, marketed as a "Mac Mini TV", or still choose models based on Core 2 Duo chips for $500+ still called a "Mac Mini" .

Or something to that effect. So long as there is a clear distiction to the buyer that one should not expect to use the Atom-based version for certain CPU-intesive tasks, but the native HD video decoding and graphics abilities of the 9400M / Ion chipset is more than adeqate for their multimedia Home Theater PC needs. And, they are - a recent Anandtech article speak about being able to saturate the DDR memory bus well before the graphics system is overwhelmed decoding two HD movies at the same time. Or something like that... go read his Ion article.

Dear internet: it would probably be a good idea to not get enraged and shake your tiny fists in indignation because of an entirely unsubstantiated rumor about something that Apple might do that would in fact be highly uncharacteristic of them.

That is all.

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.

Depending on if FW is included and a Superdrive a $399 Atom based
mini would be merely passable.

I doubt it'd run iLife very well and i'm not banking on OpenCL gaining any real
traction until 10.7.

It would make for a nice basic web surfing box and iWork and other productivity apps. Though I think there's a snowballs chance that Apple actually delivers a $400 computer.
Odds are they attempt to pass this off as an acceptable $500 computer which would be a joke.

But if they price it at $2000, then Apple can call it a premium product. Apple defenders could then argue that Apple makes premium products, higher prices mean better differentiation, Apple is like BMW while everyone else is Kia, etc.

But if they price it at $2000, then Apple can call it a premium product. Apple defenders could then argue that Apple makes premium products, higher prices mean better differentiation, Apple is like BMW while everyone else is Kia, etc.

Yes, that ludicrous hypothetical situation certainly would paint those silly Apple defenders in a bad light, when they pretend rallied to the made up thing.

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.

Well I can personally tell you with absolute precision the next MacMini WILL NOT run an Atom based CPU.

I have exactly what there stating on my desk at the office. It's half the speed of the 1st gen Core Solo mini, even though it's dual core.

And they can't use it for AppleTV either because it can't process HD content as well as the current Pentium M cpu.

WHY? So glad you asked, it can't run processes out of step/sync. And the low cache is horrid when you try to watch HD Movies.

Running OS X Vanilla this cpu/chip combo scores a low 45.84 on Xbench. A core solo runs a decent 79.xx with 1gb of ram. Performance on Ubuntu 64bit is good but it would be like offering a G4 in today's market.

They may make a Mac with that cpu but nothing mainstream for real hard work. A $299 mac that's Eco friendly (system uses 18 watts under operation, half when idle) to go along side their netbook on the same chips and 10" screen (16:9 resolution BTW).

Replace the mini with that, might as well drop a 4cyl in the next corvette.

Dear internet: it would probably be a good idea to not get enraged and shake your tiny fists in indignation because of an entirely unsubstantiated rumor about something that Apple might do that would in fact be highly uncharacteristic of them.

Apple TV, Possibly 9400M technically, is perfectly capable of playing 1080P Video. With some optimization and proper software support.

Mini, i have previously thought yes, but someone pointed out the simple reason why not. Atom is not 64bit. Which i think rules Atom out of the Mini equation.

Technically yes, but so far it doesn't. Out of all the software out there that plays video (vlc, perrien, coreplayer, quicktime, etc) I have only found 1 app that plays 1080p MKV without stuttering on a macbook pro... and that's Plex. My buddy even tried playing the 1080p MKVs on his quad 2.66 Mac Pro with VLC... no go.

BTW good point about the 64bit... I didn't realize atom wasn't 64bit. If this is true I can't see apple moving to it... not with the 64bit push for snow leopard.

Quote:

The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

Technically yes, but so far it doesn't. Out of all the software out there that plays video (vlc, perrien, coreplayer, quicktime, etc) I have only found 1 app that plays 1080p MKV without stuttering on a macbook pro... and that's Plex. My buddy even tried playing the 1080p MKVs on his quad 2.66 Mac Pro with VLC... no go.

BTW good point about the 64bit... I didn't realize atom wasn't 64bit. If this is true I can't see apple moving to it... not with the 64bit push for snow leopard.

The desktop Atom CPU's support 64-bit, the netbook (most use the N270 Atom) variants do not. The desktop Atom 330 is also dual-core, unlike the rest, which are single-core and support/use HT.

The biggest issue with the current netbooks, is that the GMA 950 is a piece of crap, but that's the same issue that I have with my Mini. The 9400M would be perfect for that type of application, but in an Apple desktop, unless it was $300-400 dollars, Apple would be completely crazy, as the Atom is great for low-power applications, but doesn't have enough power for more demanding things like iLife even.

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. While the Mini could stay within the same parameters, and grow in power, there might be room for a machine at roughly the Apple TV price point, but with additional features and 3D graphics. A sort of "Apple Console". A lightweight, flash-based (no disk drive) media center device, perhaps with gaming capability, definitely browsing and e-mail, with an App Store distribution model for software.

It would be a computer for people who don't use computers, or use them badly, as well as an entertainment hub for people who do use computers, but don't want to tie up a real machine with their TV.

It would be the flip side to the netbook concept; similar power but not a mobile device.

Perhaps it wouldn't even be called a Mac, which would fit with their effort to trademark OS/X alone.

It could be something else entirely, but I think Apple is up to something...

We all would like to think that Apple doesn't compromise on quality, but they've been doing it with the Mini for the past couple years.

"Let them eat cake."

I think the quality of the mini is fine though the specs are beyond outdated. The Atom certainly isn't the answer. I understand Apple's reluctance to push the mini but low cost computers are good for families that want multiple computers.

The more computers sold means it opens up opportunity for selling more software and services like MobileMe and eventually easy management of resources for a small Home Area Network.

I'm sure the dream for Apple is that families can afford iMacs all the way around but that's just not realistic. The typical multi computer home will probably have a mix of fast and slower desktops and a laptop or two tossed in.

Apple's sitting at this point where they have implemented the technology in software to easily create networks and leverage resources but they don't seem to have the will power to just deliver the solution.

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.- SolipsismX

i dont really have any problems with my appletv , sure it would be alot easier if i didnt have to convert alot of my stuff , but it doesnt bother me that much , ive also played a 1080p mkv file that was 10GB and it didnt shutter or freeze , and im doing all this on my 2.4ghz macbook.

They clearly thought it made sense to use an Atom to compete with the Mini.

Looking at their marketing style, which takes a lot of influence from Apple, it's easy for me to feel convinced that this is what Apple's doing. Who can't imagine an Apple page advertising an Atom Mini after looking at that?