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Crossfire booklist

I saw us throwing out a few good books lately so I thought I'd thread this one into its own. You can rename books if you've got something else to say about it. This might become a test to see if we're all getting our information from different sources or not.

-See No Evil By Robert Baer
The book goes from CIA recruitment, to the Farm and CIA training, to Field agents, pitching sources, CIA buocracy, the effect washington has on intelligence, and follows Baer as he romps around India, Libia, Syria, Soviet non-Soviet Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and tons of other shit. It's a real life clancy novel, it's good shit.

-Sleeping with the devil by Robert Baer
This book glimpses over the complexities of oil refinement, covers the House of Saud in amazing detail, gives a history of the American-Saudi from the beginning... if See No Evil gets you into trying to understand the middle east this one's a good follow up.

-Hatred's Kingdom: How Saudi Arabia Supports the New Global Terrorism by Dore Gold.
A little long and tedius to read compared to Bob Baer, but as far as what it says about Wahhabism, it's accurate and informative. This book covers a LOT of history and I get the feeling the writer's English, but it's not too subjective.

one of the most insightful books i've ever read, which i would recommend to anyone, is by an australian guy named alex carey..he wrote a book called 'taking the risk out of democracy', and it's pretty stellar. an original.

Do 'Wahhabis' Support Acts of Terrorism?
"...Hijacking airplanes and kidnapping children and the like are extremely great crimes, the world over. Their evil effects are far and wide, as is the great harm and inconvenience caused to the innocent..."

- Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Bin Baz, Saudi Arabia

The late Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Bin Baz, the former Mufti (verdict giver) of Saudi Arabia, made the following comment about acts of terrorism: "From that which is known to anyone who has the slightest bit of common sense, is that hijacking airplanes and kidnapping children and the like are extremely great crimes, the world over. Their evil effects are far and wide, as is the great harm and inconvenience caused to the innocent; the total effect of which none can comprehend except Allah.

Likewise, from that which is known is that these crimes are not specific to any particular country over and above another country, nor any specific group over and above another group; rather, it encompasses the whole world.

There is no doubt about the effect of these crimes; so it is obligatory upon the governments and those responsible from amongst the scholars and others to afford these issues great concern, and to exert themselves as much as possible in ending this evil."

In specific reference to the Egyptian Qutbist group which eventually saw some of its members become associated with al-Qaeda, Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Bin Baz was asked, "What is the verdict concerning Jamaa'atul-Jihaad (The Jihad Party of Egypt) and co-operation with them?"

He answered, "...They are not to be co-operated with, nor are they to be given salutations (salaam). Rather, they are to be cut off from, and the people are to be warned against their evil, since they are a tribulation and are harmful to the Muslims, and they are the brothers of the Devil."

In his book al-Irhaab (Terrorism), Shaykh Zayd al-Madkhali spoke about the iniquity of those who spread corruption in the earth: "And certainly, I say without doubt, that these kinds of people, May Allah guide them, divert people from the path of truth in the way they act towards people. And no one is safe from their evil in their lands, except those who are a part of their party of which destroys, and does not build, corrupts much, and does not rectify."

"If you read one book to understand the roots of al-Qaeda's fury and the hostility to us within the Mulsim world, it should be this - Dore Gold's superbly told the history of the Wahhabi's."
(R. James Woolsey, former director of the CIA)

Who should we believe, Woolsey, or a website saying "It's just not true."

Originally posted by BURLAP@Jan 25 2006, 04:57 AMpersonally i think woolsey's a scumbag.

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Burlap I think you need to get off your soap box for a second and think before you speak. John Stuart had Woolsey on the daily show, he's a good man and as "CIA director" suggests, he's an intelligence expert.

That's not an opinion. That's not even a completed thought. How bout "why" you think Woolsey is a scumbag? If you can't answer that then you have what anyone else would call "indifference."

Wahhabi fundementalism, or what the West calls islamism, is a deviation of islam taught in Modenia University in Saudi Arabia, Sponsored by the Saudi Government, and exported from there.

I wanted to also say that you seem to think my gripe with Wahhabism is with Osama Bin Laden. If you try to defend wahhabism to me you'll poorly loose, since Wahhibism is a movement that distinctly follows the trends of anti-semitism in Islamic history. Osama is a product of wahhibism but isn't a good example since Osama has always been quoted as indifferent to Muslim struggle in Palestine, exiled out of Saudi Arabia, and exiled out of his family. He's simply living in a cave grinding an axe and making "I hate the US" mix tapes in his spare time.

The real problem is Wahhabism theology (as well with other militant islamic trends) spawned not only the Al Qaeda, but Hamas, the Taliban, the Islamic Salvation Front, Saddam, and gangs in Chechnya and Dagistan.

It's written by the creator of Dilbert, which is reason enough to read it

But, there's more! The plot is extremely thin, but that's not the point. It's full of interesting insight and extremely thought-provoking ideas about religion, especially with regard to the Islam-Christianity conflict on at the moment

Originally posted by Soup@Jan 25 2006, 04:00 AMWhat people say about "Hatred's Kingdom"

"If you read one book to understand the roots of al-Qaeda's fury and the hostility to us within the Mulsim world, it should be this - Dore Gold's superbly told the history of the Wahhabi's."
(R. James Woolsey, former director of the CIA)

Who should we believe, Woolsey, or a website saying "It's just not true."

[post=4283654]Quoted post[/post]​

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who should you beleive about Islam, the muslims or the non muslims. Thats like going to a ford dealership to buy a chevy.
At the chevy dealership youre only going to get a preowned ford that was abused by somebody else, cleaned up, and sold to you after it was already beat up.
If you want to know about the quality of Nike sneakers, do you go to Reebok and ask them?
Iv'e never read Woolsey's book and I don't know what It implies. But , if you read the book "wahhabi Myth" I'm sure you'll get a better understanding of this issue from an objectivity standpoint.
It is very possible that Woolsey's book is accurate (like I said , I never read it.) And It may be possible that Woolsey's book is full of fabrications and more false justification to Bomb the hell out of innocent people. I won't know until I read it. But, don't knock the wahhabi myth until you read it.

Originally posted by Soup@Jan 25 2006, 05:07 AM[Burlap I think you need to get off your soap box for a second and think before you speak.Â John Stuart had Woolsey on the daily show, he's a good man!!!!!!!! and as "CIA director" suggests, he's an intelligence expert.

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since when did graffiti writing criminal types defend the CIA?
:five-o: ??
is it you Woolsey?

And I love all the non muslim Islamic theologans who never heard of a "wahhabi" or "Islam" or "Osama Ibn Laden" before 911 and are now experts on what Islam is and what is a deviation from Islam.

Oh, and Soup, It's not Modenia University , it Medina University and , do you personally know any graduates from Medina University?
I know many. i have some close associates who have graduated from Medina U and they weren't Al Qaidaized at all. As a matter of fact, the official position of the Saudi govt. is against terrorism, I don't say this because I care what you think about the Saudi Govt.. I don't, I don't work for the saudi govt. but, I'm a muslim, who lives and breathes Islam every day. From The scholars to the the rulers of Saudi , they all preach against terrorism.
check herewww.fatwaonline.com
and here is the curriculum of the medina university. Tell me if you find any terrorism there.www.mediu.org.

My point in all of this is, If someone is a terrorist, then most likely, they won't try to hide it. Al Qaida doesn't hide it. And if you look to Al Qaida, they hate the saudi govt. because they feel that the saudis suck up to America too much.
And if you want to talk about being in bed with the terrorists, what about the CIA? weren't they funding Al qaida during the reagan-clinton Administrations when they were fighting the russians? Oh, but , then they were freedom fighters. Where do you think these "insurgents" as you call them got their rocket launchers?
At the pakastani Goat farm?