#emc | Logs for 2011-04-08

Back[00:00:14]<aggrav8d> nope.
[00:00:38]<JT-Shop> cup point set screws?
[00:00:43]<aggrav8d> ?
[00:00:53]<aggrav8d> and one of the shafts is decidedly not round. i had to dremel it to get the bearing & sprocket on.
[00:01:00]<JT-Shop> hmmm how do I describe that...
[00:01:21]<aggrav8d> picture
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[00:01:45]<aggrav8d> i found one. yes.
[00:01:55]<JT-Shop>http://www.radax.com/store.asp?pid=15198[00:02:43]<aggrav8d> also i think the teeth (?) are damaged, or my alan keys are wrong size. I can tighten to a certain point and after that my key just "pops".
[00:02:58]<JT-Shop> that is about as good as you can get then without flats on the shaft, unless they are worn out then some new ones might help
[00:03:10]<JT-Shop> yea, they are trash
[00:03:11]<aggrav8d> they're brand new.
[00:03:30]<JT-Shop> then get a new allen wrench LOL
[00:03:31]* aggrav8d sighs[00:03:41]<aggrav8d> alen keys?
[00:03:43]<JT-Shop> and replace the now damaged screws
[00:03:48]<JT-Shop> yes
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[00:04:02]<aggrav8d> damnit.
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[00:04:37]theorb is now known as theorbtwo[00:05:21]<JT-Shop> it does sound like the method of fixing the sprockets to the shafts is not a secure enough connection... any way to put at least one small flat on the shaft?
[00:05:44]<JT-Shop> careful filing comes to mind
[00:05:45]<aggrav8d> i don't have any reliable way. i have only the most rudimentary tools.
[00:06:12]<JT-Shop> you can do it with a file if you take your time and are careful
[00:07:18]<JT-Shop> it does not take much of a flat, just enough for the cup point to sit in
[00:07:41]<aggrav8d>http://buildyourcnc.com/images/drive%20sprocket-25%20200.JPG drive sprocket #24.
[00:07:48]<JT-Shop> so instead of sliding around the shaft it has to climb a small hill to move so very difficult
[00:07:59]<aggrav8d> er, #25. 9 teeth at 1/4"/tooth and 1/4" bore.
[00:08:15]<JT-Shop> it's on a screw or a shaft?
[00:08:20]<aggrav8d> shaft.
[00:08:28]<aggrav8d> screw is just for comparison.
[00:08:39]<JT-Shop> a small flat will improve the holding power a lot
[00:09:02]<JT-Shop> as well as getting a new allen key and replacing the now damaged screws
[00:09:30]<JT-Shop> my neighbor would weld it on...
[00:09:52]<JT-Shop> but I never buy anything he has worked on either :)
[00:09:57]<aggrav8d> you have fun neighbours.
[00:10:14]<JT-Shop> yes I do and for the most part we get along
[00:11:14]<JT-Shop> a good neighbor is one you can't see from your deck... so all mine are good sorta
[00:14:19]<aggrav8d> I can see several neighbour's homes... but never the people.
[00:14:27]<aggrav8d> it's a bit like living in a ghost town.
[00:20:11]* JT-Shop heads inside now and calls it a night out in the shop[00:20:11]<JT-Shop> good luck
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[02:33:22]<aggrav8d>http://imgur.com/a/IkQBK#HXIwr[02:33:28]<aggrav8d> success!?
[02:33:55]<elmo40> the centre one? ;)
[02:34:06]<elmo40> what is it for?
[02:38:57]<jdhNC> cool, what all did you do?
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[02:51:57]<atom1> wtfbbq
[02:51:59]<atom1>http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/lightseeker/light_wheel1[02:52:07]<atom1>http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/lightseeker/light_wheel2[03:01:42] -!- Dannyboy [Dannyboy!~Dan@ip68-101-102-133.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #emc
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[03:12:46]<aggrav8d> jdhNC - tightened everything down, resquared it, and suddenly this time it decided to play ball.
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[06:34:16]<Connor> okay, so, question, what does everyone do with the extra wire on the stepper motors? My motors came with the wires loose, and not in insulation.. I'm using 4 conductor stranded alarm wire for hookup.. I have it in a drag chain, but, don't like the idea of the loose wires being in it, and my splice being exposed..
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[07:08:36]<Jymmm> split-loom tubing, spiral wrap, and/or shrink wrap.
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[08:24:11]<atom1> i took the shrinkwrap route
[08:26:45]<atom1>http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper10.jpg[08:42:51] -!- Paragon39 [Paragon39!~chatzilla@cpc13-bexl7-2-0-cust145.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
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[09:14:46]<Paragon39> pastbin.ca down?
[09:15:25]<Paragon39> sorry pastebin.ca down?
[09:19:15]<Paragon39> I have knocked up an a quick and dirty optocoupler board with eagle could you let me know if it appears OK? http://imagebin.org/147136[09:22:07]<archivist> probably, not a lot to go wrong
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[09:23:50]<Paragon39> I was a little concerned about the out section which is on the header side btw with regards to the single resistor.
[09:24:02]<archivist> not enough info to say yay/nay
[09:24:17]<Paragon39> Output Left input on the right of the image.
[09:25:27]<Paragon39> Would a single resistor for the output be adequate or should I have a resistor for each output?
[09:25:58]<archivist> outputs dont need a resistor for the SD2 drives
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[09:26:28]<Paragon39> archivist: Well that answered my question :-)
[09:26:50]<archivist> and more important is basic wiring and circuit
[09:29:07]<archivist> 6 optos are they all the same physical way round
[09:29:22]<Paragon39> Thanks archivist.. Gotta say I'm struggling a little today, a little to much guinness last night :-)
[09:30:13]<Paragon39> Yes all the same way. The image shows six but they are actually 3 8pin ILD74's.
[09:41:59]<archivist> are your input led's forward biased
[09:48:11]<Paragon39> archivist: Sorry for the delay in replying I was just pulled away.. Yes they are forward biased.
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[11:22:25]<atom1> Paragon39, why are the 2 center outputs tied together?
[11:23:38]<atom1> maybe that's a common feed for the optos
[11:25:20]<atom1> make sure the optos don't have any polarity issues
[11:25:59]<atom1> i can't tell much about them from the board file
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[11:32:14]<atom1> you don't need resistors on the input leds?
[11:32:30]<atom1> 60ma seems like alot to drive
[11:32:36]<atom1> x 12
[11:32:49]<atom1> err 6
[11:35:39]<atom1> i would use 6 instead of 1 i think
[11:38:58]<archivist> the parport cannot drive 60 ma
[11:43:24]<atom1> i'd also use smt resistors and make the board smaller
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[12:44:34]<anonimasu> anyone here with a understanding of the mesa 7i43
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[12:45:41]<micges_cnc> anonimasu: what is the problem?
[12:46:14]<anonimasu> my output works but I cant toggle it manually
[12:46:43]<anonimasu> I have a 7i47-com board on my second poart of the 7i43 and I cant get anything out
[12:46:55]<anonimasu> but with my old config it makes the outputs stuck as soon as i start emc
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[12:47:17]<anonimasu> it might simply be me setting the wrong port
[12:48:00]<micges_cnc> what is lspci saying about your lpt port address?
[12:48:08]<anonimasu> my boards work i can jog around
[12:48:17]<anonimasu> but I cant use the gpio board
[12:48:21]<anonimasu> (I dont know how)
[12:48:49]<anonimasu> what do I need to set? (do i need to set the gpio.040.is_output before I send stuff to gpio.040.out
[12:50:07]<micges_cnc> yes you must
[12:50:28]<anonimasu> and just halcmd setp it?
[12:50:32]<micges_cnc> mesa pins are inputs by default
[12:50:50]<anonimasu> I see
[12:50:50]<micges_cnc> halcmd or better hal file
[12:52:34]<anonimasu> can i load a halfile through halcmd?
[12:53:22]<anonimasu> nvm
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[12:53:46]<micges_cnc> halcmd -f [filename]
[12:53:57]<anonimasu> still nothing
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[12:54:12]<anonimasu> 38-43 as outputs now
[12:56:01]<micges_cnc> wait
[12:56:08]<micges_cnc> you use 7i47?
[12:56:12]<anonimasu> yes
[12:56:20]<anonimasu> oh
[12:56:21]<anonimasu> no
[12:56:40]<anonimasu> 7i43 + a 7i47 and a 7i37com
[12:57:00]<anonimasu> i want to get output on the 7i37
[12:57:05]<micges_cnc> ok
[12:58:31]<anonimasu> connected to p4
[12:59:35]<micges_cnc> it seems that you have outputs on 40 to 47 pins
[13:00:09]<micges_cnc> or 16 to 23 if it is on first port
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[13:00:37]<micges_cnc> and those pins you have set is_output ?
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[13:02:08]<anonimasu> yes
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[13:03:35]<anonimasu> not for all tho
[13:03:59]<micges_cnc> I understand
[13:04:01]<anonimasu> let me fix that
[13:04:50]<anonimasu> done
[13:06:04]<anonimasu> its on out0 or out1
[13:07:26]<micges_cnc> it's works now?
[13:07:30]<anonimasu> no
[13:07:32]<anonimasu> still the same
[13:07:53]<anonimasu> I have a file with gpoi.xx.is_output for 40-47 = true
[13:08:00]<Eik0> gpoi~
[13:08:31]<anonimasu> and I setp it makes no difference for the outputs if i do so
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[13:17:44]<anonimasu> I get 0.408v out
[13:18:09]<SWPadnos> is-opendrain?
[13:18:43]<anonimasu> I dont know about that do i need to toggle that too?
[13:19:08]<SWPadnos> you probably want it off
[13:19:46]<SWPadnos> also, make sure you aren't enabling any special features that might be on that port (like stepgens, encoders, PWMs ...)
[13:20:00]<anonimasu> i have that on another port
[13:20:22]<SWPadnos> are you running two 7i43?
[13:20:26]<anonimasu> only one
[13:20:30]<anonimasu> with two daughtercards
[13:20:32]<SWPadnos> ok, just making sure
[13:20:39]<anonimasu> standard config
[13:20:45]<anonimasu> my machine moves with the default stepgens
[13:21:10]<SWPadnos> I don't know the pinout of the 7i43 advanced features, so I can't tell you if something is on the second header
[13:21:28]<SWPadnos> you have the pinout in dmesg I think, you could look at what the driver thinks is there
[13:22:44]<anonimasu> one second gonna compare to the datasheet
[13:23:11]<SWPadnos> what is on your loadrt line (the one with num_stepgens)?
[13:23:41]<anonimasu> 3
[13:23:53]<anonimasu> and one encoder
[13:24:00]<anonimasu> (not added yet)
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[13:27:10]<SWPadnos> bbiab
[13:28:37]* anonimasu sighs[13:28:40]<anonimasu> what the hell is wrong.....
[13:28:48]<anonimasu> it turns on stuck with my old config
[13:29:02]<anonimasu> it complains about parport mode might that be the issue?
[13:29:10]<anonimasu> because it works I can move the axews
[13:29:13]<anonimasu> axes...
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[13:47:14]<SWPadnos> anonimasu, which update functions are added to threads?
[13:47:23]<SWPadnos> there is a separate update-gpio function, I believe
[13:49:29]<SWPadnos> hmmm. no, read and write should do it all
[13:50:23]<FinboySlick> On that topic, is gpio typically better than standard PC parallel port for step generation?
[13:50:36]<SWPadnos> no, a stepgen is
[13:51:36]<SWPadnos> are you talking about GPIO like a ComputerBoards or other I/O card?
[13:52:21]<FinboySlick> Mostly just built-in GPIO as found on some motherboards and usually embeded SBCs.
[13:52:56]<SWPadnos> I haven't tried any of those as yet. I have some Mini-ITX boards that have some, like a Jetway or two
[13:53:19]<SWPadnos> as long as it's simple port reads/writes, it should be OK (electrical characteristics aside)
[13:53:53]<FinboySlick> Yeah, these tend to be 3.3v, no? And parport 12v, right?
[13:54:05]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did you see those multi I/O atom boards someone was talking to you abouty last week?
[13:54:18]<SWPadnos> yes, I think it was FinboySlick :)
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[13:54:29]<SWPadnos> multi ethernet, with pass-through modes
[13:54:36]<Jymmm> yeah
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[13:55:17]<FinboySlick> Jymmm: Yeah... I'm not just 'someone', you know. Mpf...
[13:55:30]* FinboySlick kids, of course.[13:55:44]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did you see those multi I/O atom boards some bitch was talking to you about last week?
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[13:56:02]<SWPadnos> no. the person seemed to be an idiot, so I ignored him
[13:56:26]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: Gotcha, I concur
[13:56:38]<SWPadnos> anyway :)
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[13:57:04]<FinboySlick> I'd take no offence at 'idot' actually. As far as EMC goes, I readily admit to being one.
[13:58:35]<SWPadnos> eh. it's not that hard, it's just detailed (if you don't want something simple that can be configured with stepconf)
[13:59:07]<ries> Paragon39: if you can make the tracks a bit thicker, that usually helps during soldering, better connections, more 'rugged' etc.
[14:05:50]user__ is now known as JustinXJS[14:06:03]<FinboySlick> SWPadnos: I'm sure I'll figure it out relatively well. It's mostly lack of experience right now. Between dayjob and just the physical setup of my mill I barely had time to toy with it. I hang around here to catch blurbs of information and file them for later.
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[14:08:35]<Jymmm> FinboySlick: That's not being an idiot, that's just not knowing (ignorance), which can be easily resolved, just take s a little time to absorb it all and then one day you'll go "Oh, I get it now" =)
[14:09:46]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: You seen Thunderbolt yet?
[14:11:34]<SWPadnos> the phone?
[14:12:00]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: Thunderbolt == External PCI-E I/O
[14:12:32]<SWPadnos> no, not under that name
[14:12:45]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: 10Gbps
[14:12:46]<SWPadnos> Is that the "Light Peak" implementation in the new Macs?
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[14:12:51]<SWPadnos> ok
[14:12:57]<SWPadnos> yes, I have heard of it
[14:13:11]<Jymmm>http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/index.htm[14:13:33]<SWPadnos> yeah, it used to be called "Light Peak"
[14:13:57]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, cool, so when can I expect YOu to create a Thunderbolt i/O bridge for cnc ?
[14:14:12]<SWPadnos> 2937, late October
[14:14:15]<anonimasu> SWPadnos: jsut the standard
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[14:14:22]<anonimasu> i using the default stuff
[14:14:22]<SWPadnos> (and no, the 9 is not a typo)
[14:14:39]<anonimasu> SWPadnos: so i dont know about the gpio update stuff
[14:14:50]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: Since you can daisychain, should be easy to have 20 axis and no timing issues
[14:15:05]<SWPadnos> anonimasu, it looks like the standard read/write should update I/O along with everything else
[14:15:39]<SWPadnos> Jymmm, 10Gbps doesn't say anything about latency or turnaround, as you should well know by now (after all our discussions about USB)
[14:16:14]<Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sure, but it's direct PCI-e interface, no latency issues as should be faster than PCI even
[14:17:19]<anonimasu> no damn clue :S about this
[14:17:30]<tom3p> limbo limbo how low can you go? how low is "Low latency with highly accurate time synchronization"
[14:22:37]<SWPadnos> I guess Mesa already has Thunderbolt products then :)
[14:23:10]<SWPadnos> since they have external cabled PCIe cards. All you'd need is a converter box to change the electrical connections to standard PCIe
[14:26:44]<pcw_home> PCIE is not a robust field bus ( the noise from a drive will knock it for a loop) its great for getting out of the box however
[14:27:49]<SWPadnos> there were several companies with PCIE networking (and storage) interconnects at RTECC this year. it was interesting
[14:28:19]<SWPadnos> 80 Gb/s speeds with multiple lane cabling, 8-port PCIe switches (like a network switch)
[14:28:28]<pcw_home> Yes i thnk it will kill Infiniband
[14:28:50]<SWPadnos> probably, since it was 10x faster and 1/3 the cost (or something like that)
[14:29:44]<pcw_home> If Intel had just not added that silly 30 KHz beacon business it could have been transformer coupled
[14:29:54]<SWPadnos> I wonder what the Thunderbolt controller chips will cost (and what they'll need on the device end as far as I/O bandwidth)
[14:30:03]<pcw_home> oh well
[14:30:31]<SWPadnos> huh - is that a cable/connection detection mechanism or something?
[14:31:14]<pcw_home> And will they be "logo licenced" like Apple stuff
[14:31:16]<pcw_home> yes detection, kind of like the 1.5k USB resistor
[14:33:36]<pcw_home> I think the beacon business is about detecting the other end without firing up the (power hungry) PLL/PHY
[14:35:46]<geo01005> so I have a quick question about realtime hal component and the log function... It looks like the log function is not supported in rtapi_math.h
[14:36:37]<geo01005> is there a technical reason? or just nobody has ever needed to perform a log function in a realtime component?
[14:39:54]<SWPadnos> geo01005, I think it just hasn't been necessary. I don't know of any technical reason why it couldn't be added to rtapi_math.h (or rtapi_math_i386.h)
[14:40:57]<SWPadnos> though I haven't looked at the i386 instruction set to see if that's a library call or an intrinsic function. if it's an intrinsic, it's OK. library call, not so much
[14:40:58]<geo01005> I see, I was trying to make a quick thermistor linearization component that requires a log function.
[14:41:13]<SWPadnos> how fast is your thermistor?
[14:41:34]<SWPadnos> they're usually not all that fast response devices, so a userspace linearization might suffice
[14:41:37]<geo01005> My component dosen't have to be realtime, it just makes me feel better.
[14:41:38]<JT-Shop> there not that fast
[14:42:29]<geo01005> I just don't have a good feel for what the worst practical case delay in userspace is.
[14:42:49]<geo01005> Of course it depends on the hardware...
[14:42:55]<SWPadnos> well, look at it this way - what is using the thermistor output?
[14:43:15]<SWPadnos> barring terrible things, you're looking at a few milliseconds
[14:43:17]<geo01005> heater control, I was looking at using emc to close the loop.
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[14:43:33]<Jymmm> Thermal nuclear device
[14:43:42]<SWPadnos> ok, so it will be a PID, which will happen to be in realtime since that's where our PID is
[14:43:49]<geo01005> yeah.
[14:43:59]<Jymmm> Thermal nuclear device controlled by EMC
[14:45:07]<geo01005> At the moment the analog signal from the thermistor will be coming in on the usb bus anyway, so it doesn't mater if it is realtime, there will still be delays.
[14:45:17]<Jymmm> and ESCape is futile!
[14:45:18]<SWPadnos> it's not realtime then
[14:45:39]<SWPadnos> there is no EMC USB driver that is realtime, so it's going through hal_input or something else in userspace anyway
[14:45:44]<geo01005> I just wanted to make the thermistor component realtime for other applications that might have a realtime signal.
[14:46:34]<geo01005> Of course if I can just make a lookup table in the realtime component and perform the calculation before compile time.
[14:47:10]<Jymmm> Couldn't you just use serial port and have other applcations just pole /dev/ttyx as needed?
[14:47:32]<geo01005> USB serial port on a arduino.
[14:48:14]<SWPadnos> I don't see a log10 instruction (in my very brief search), but there is a log2 instruction, and you can multiply by the appropriate constant to get log10 (and there's an instruction to push that constant on the FP stack as well, I think)
[14:48:19]<Jymmm> I eant shoving the theritor on the serial port directly
[14:49:01]<SWPadnos> so log10 would be a 3-instruction assembly snippet in rtapi_math_i386.h: log2, push, multiply
[14:49:04]<geo01005> well, I need log base e
[14:49:20]<SWPadnos> ok, there's probably an ln function :)
[14:49:37]<SWPadnos> which should make it a single instruction, much like some of the others in that file
[14:49:56]<geo01005> yeah, that would require compiling EMC source though right?
[14:50:24]<SWPadnos> huh. nope, just log2 (weird)
[14:50:52]<SWPadnos> at least as described on this terribly old looking web page: http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/Windows/HTML/RealArithmetica2.html[14:50:55]<tom3p> if its of any use rtai's ilogb function http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/php/tjuerges/ALMA/RTOS-3.7.1/api/s__ilogb_8c-source.html[14:51:48] -!- OoBIGeye has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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[14:54:00]<geo01005> well, there are several easy ways to solve my problem, I mostly wanted to know if there was some existing way of doing the ln function.
[14:54:07]<tom3p> you need base e? forget the int func then
[14:56:08]<geo01005> Currently I have a userspace component and I'll live with that until I have some real reason to use a realtime component.
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[15:25:50]* FinboySlick has to share this one: http://failblog.org/2011/04/07/epic-fail-photos-ipod-fail/ (laser engraving is semi on-topic anyway, no?)[15:28:30]<Jymmm> lasers suck!
[15:29:33]<Jymmm> Well ok, the blower connected to my laser sucks that is!
[15:30:52]<FinboySlick> To quote Spaceballs: "Oh no! She went from 'Suck' to 'Blow'!"
[15:30:59]<FinboySlick> Or something along those lines anyway.
[15:34:52]<Jymmm> =)
[15:39:23]<tom3p> i run a rip of EMC2 - 2.6.0~pre, & theres a 'timer' comp in 2.5, (http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?SimpleCycleTimer) , i cannot man timer
[15:39:29]<tom3p> what am i doing wrong?
[15:39:45]<JT-Shop> tom3p: what are you trying to do?
[15:39:49]<tom3p> man timer
[15:39:58]<tom3p> just for info
[15:40:10]<JT-Shop> it will be in your dev directory so you have to provide the full paht
[15:40:12]<JT-Shop> path
[15:40:17]<JT-Shop> to man
[15:40:56]<tom3p> ok i just set env ( cd emc2-dev; . scripts/emc-environment; man timer )
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[15:41:13]<JT-Shop> ah yea that too :)
[15:41:28]<JT-Shop> I keep forgetting about that
[15:41:38]<tom3p> i did that, ng, can you man timer? or is 2.5 newer than 2.6.0~pre ?
[15:41:40]<JT-Shop> I use it on my lathe for a cycle timer
[15:41:59]<anonimasu> im gonna hm..
[15:42:00]<tom3p> newer/different
[15:42:01]<anonimasu> i found the output
[15:42:10]<psha> tom3p: ~pre is newer then any lower versions
[15:42:11]<anonimasu> but it seems like somewhere this pinout is moved all around
[15:42:12]<anonimasu> :(
[15:42:19]<psha> 2.5 and 2.6 have already diverged a bit
[15:42:23]<anonimasu> so my old wiring dosent work
[15:42:36]<tom3p> psha JT-Shop ok thx
[15:43:02]<anonimasu> PCW: are you around?
[15:44:04]<tom3p> JT-Shop do you have time-to-go and/or time-elapsed?
[15:44:20]<JT-Shop> time elapsed
[15:44:32]<JT-Shop> time to go is very hard to figure out
[15:45:44]<pcw_home> yes
[15:46:52]<tom3p> i was thinking some digital markers in the gcode at a known distance along path would give a good estimate ( like at 10% of path length, using m62...69 )
[15:47:30]<tom3p> cad system would need to calc path total len, and some tool to set markers into (near) points of gcode
[15:47:43]<Jymmm> isn't there a ETA in axis once you load a file?
[15:48:08]<Jymmm> under properties or some such thing
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[15:56:25]<JT-Shop> tom3p: if you can calculate the length, commanded speed, acceleration/deceleration time for each move you can get close unless you use the naive cam detector then that throws all that out the window
[16:02:57]<tom3p> JT i was think more pragmatic, know the time at 10% of path and display estimate of the 90% to be done. based on markers >like< M64 P1 whatever the immediate one was
[16:04:02]<tom3p> set the flag when that point gets executed, measure the time till that flag, estimate the timetogo based on what actually happening now ( feed speed acc deacc all included )
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[16:09:58]<JT-Shop> would it not be an easier task to have a post processor that calculated the estimated time and when running display the time left with a count down timer... and I'm just thinking out loud atm
[16:11:53]<JT-Shop> tom3p: have you looked at file properties in Axis?
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[16:19:17]<Paragon39> Can EMC2 run more than one instance of itself on the same PC? For example one instance to run a lathe the other for the mill?
[16:19:38]<tom3p> JT-Shop thx i never looked at that before, interesting. The timer could divide that , or ignore it and use the actual time and distance done ( isnt that some old song? ;)
[16:19:55]<SWPadnos> Paragon39, not at the same time
[16:20:13]<SWPadnos> you can of course have multiple configurations, and use one or the other depending on which machine you want to use
[16:20:30]<SWPadnos> but you can't run two machines at the same time with two instances of EMC
[16:20:59]<Paragon39> I thought that was the case. Sorry for jumping in tom3p didn't realise there was a confirmation taking place.
[16:21:51]<JT-Shop> tom3p: yea, you could look at that enter the time and have it count down if you liked
[16:22:44]<tom3p> Paragon39, theres been a lot of talk about that recently, I'd like to try to get a pair (seperate boxes)to interoperate (using M62...66) like for handing parts off
[16:22:53]<tom3p> and np on the discussion thread
[16:23:49]<tom3p> JT-Shop, i gotta read how that was calculated, i dont doubt it, just surprised it was there
[16:24:27]<SWPadnos> tom3p, I think the estimate is a simple "multiply the distances by the programmed feedrates" thing
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[16:24:58]<tom3p> distance of an arc tho
[16:25:00]<SWPadnos> no accel or other factors are taken into account (and of course, in real life you have things like feed override and the like to deal with)
[16:25:15]<tom3p> i know how to calc it but running the entire program thru it...
[16:25:28]<SWPadnos> well, the preview runs the whole program ...
[16:25:46]<tom3p> yeh this emc2 thing is fast ;)
[16:26:13]<SWPadnos> ok, back to accounting (ugh)
[16:26:43]<tom3p> yeh back to how M64...66 work ( just studying now ) and what M69 is
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[16:30:55]<bzzzz> god, i hope my new cm3 works with openocd
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[16:52:24]<JT-Shop> tom3p: I have to assume it grabs the max velocity from the ini or something to calculate the rapids so if that is the case then the accel could be grabbed too...
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[16:53:23]<tom3p> JT-Shop, in the code now, it seems to read the G0 & G1 , amd testing a pure G2 code to see if its true
[16:53:56]<tom3p> ~/emc2-dev/bin/axis is the src file
[16:59:02]<psha> tom3p: it's not src file :)
[16:59:33]<psha> src file is in $EMC_HOME/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis
[17:02:50]<tom3p> psha looks like src to me "g0 = sum(dist(l[1][:3], l[2][:3]) for l in o.canon.traverse)" but i dunno much
[17:03:23]<tom3p> or some meaning of the word src i dont quite get
[17:04:02]<tom3p> and it does account for g2 g3 distance traveled
[17:04:12]<fragalot> urgh.
[17:04:38]<fragalot> milling fine contours out of .5mm brass sheet is probably the most nasty material i've ever worked with sofar.
[17:04:51]<fragalot> so bloody hard >.<
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[17:05:42]<JT-Shop> tom3p: looks like it starts about line 1667 in axis.py
[17:05:44]<fragalot> .1mm pass, 4mm/min and the bloody bits still snap
[17:06:07]<tom3p> JT-Shop, yep thats the quoted line
[17:06:10]<tom3p> thx
[17:06:10]<JT-Shop> not enough rpm?
[17:06:17]<fragalot> JT-Shop: 28k
[17:06:27]<fragalot> can't go higher (or lower :P)
[17:06:34]<JT-Shop> gummy material?
[17:07:08]<fragalot> has to be (too fine to really see)
[17:07:52]<JT-Shop> you can see it will be stuck in the flutes
[17:07:54]<tom3p> re: mileage markers in gcode : i think.. the nested looping nature of emc2 gcode syats the markers will be very difficult to place, and in 'std' long gcode files (what posts put out ) not too difficult
[17:08:00]<fragalot> JT-Shop: there are no flutes :P
[17:08:15]<JT-Shop> heh
[17:08:22]<fragalot> it's an engraving bit (don't have end mills fine enough)à
[17:08:46]<fragalot> damn you neighbours' kid!
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[17:08:53]<JT-Shop> ah, a half one?
[17:08:57]<fragalot> he keeps snapping twigs in 2 and I keep thinking it's my bit :P
[17:08:58]<fragalot> JT-Shop: yes
[17:09:42]<JT-Shop> flood coolant?
[17:09:47]<fragalot> dunhas sadly
[17:10:07]<fragalot> don't know if i should use cutting oil on brass or something else :/
[17:10:18]<atom1> yes
[17:10:25]* fragalot tries[17:10:54]<atom1> brass usually machines nice
[17:11:52]<atom1> you might try conventional over climb once too
[17:11:57]<anonimasu> tom3p: are you there?
[17:12:00]<atom1> see if it's grabbing the cutters
[17:12:37]<anonimasu> tom3p: question about heidenhain, got any idea what module to use to transfer data betweeen user programs and the plc?
[17:13:40]<fragalot> atom1: define "conventional over climb" ?
[17:14:00]* anonimasu is hacking tool lenght probing[17:14:15]<fragalot> atom1: and yeah - i've machined 3mm brass pretty easilly
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[17:14:35]<fragalot> so this is either somekind of alloy or it's not actually brass >.>
[17:14:40]<JT-Shop> conventional the flute comes from the back side and climb the flute comes from the front side of the direction of travel
[17:15:21]<JT-Shop> climb is better on CNC and conventional is better on loose manual mills
[17:15:29]<atom1> i just thought it might not grab as much with conventional
[17:15:52]<atom1> i always try to climb cut if possible
[17:15:58]<atom1> in metal anyway
[17:16:07]<JT-Shop> actually when milling with climb there is less wear on the tool edge as you don't scrape as much when cutting
[17:16:10]<fragalot> ah - I tried both
[17:16:24]<IchGuckLive> ballscrews make both
[17:16:41]<IchGuckLive> chees router only climb
[17:16:48]<fragalot> but this doesn't make any difference really
[17:17:12]<fragalot> since i'm just contouring a shape out on a plate
[17:17:20]<atom1> yeah
[17:17:26]<IchGuckLive> B)
[17:17:29]<fragalot> :P
[17:17:33]<atom1> :O
[17:17:51]<IchGuckLive> on heekscnc its just a click to change the direktion
[17:18:23]<fragalot> well the cutting oil sure made a difference
[17:19:33]<IchGuckLive> on the tool or on the part
[17:19:38]<IchGuckLive> O.o
[17:19:41]<atom1> both i presume
[17:20:37]<fragalot> It's like a little tornado of oil
[17:20:40]<fragalot> :P
[17:20:49]<fragalot> IchGuckLive: both
[17:21:16]<fragalot> managed to get it up to F26 too now
[17:21:32]<IchGuckLive> tornado we had today on the highay A19 with 10 Deth
[17:25:02]<Paragon39> I noticed when moving decreasing the % override it reduced the speed of the spindle motor is there a way to disable this feature so it only decreases the steppers?
[17:26:53]<Paragon39> When I say % override I am referring to the % overide bar in EMC2.
[17:26:57]<tom3p> fragalot, is the tool submerged in oil ( the tornado reference... like a whirlpool?)
[17:27:50]<IchGuckLive> Paragon39: there are 2 bars
[17:27:52]<fragalot> minimally
[17:28:02]<fragalot> the oil drags up a bit too & sprays off like a little tornado
[17:28:11]<fragalot> making a big mess of everything
[17:28:15]<IchGuckLive> Paragon39: the lower one for the steppers
[17:28:42]<fragalot> IchGuckLive: the lower one is the spindle override
[17:28:52]<IchGuckLive> fragalot: nice to clean up 1
[17:29:13]<fragalot> hey - if it cuts well...
[17:29:22]<fragalot> if it does I need to make 60 of these things >.<
[17:29:43]<fragalot> so i'd better get a better bit if this first one works out well so I can go a bit faster...
[17:30:37]<IchGuckLive> money waste go with the old
[17:31:00]<fragalot> IchGuckLive: at the moment it's taking about an hour for one......
[17:31:37]<fragalot> I don't mind paying for a decent bit if it means I can do the same in 5 minutes or less
[17:31:49]<Paragon39> IchGuckLive: I just noticed when loading up EMC2 the spindle % override, but it then disappears from the GUI leaving 3 bars feed overide, jog speed and max velocity.
[17:31:49]<IchGuckLive> change the G-code to a better performance
[17:32:03]<fragalot> I mean it's just a .5mm sheet, it should cut like butter
[17:32:09]<fragalot> IchGuckLive: the G-code is good...
[17:32:16]<fragalot> it's just 2 circles and 2 squares lol
[17:32:16]<IchGuckLive> B)
[17:32:40]<IchGuckLive> 1houre increase the F
[17:32:48]<fragalot> then my bit snaps
[17:33:09]<IchGuckLive> mill faster with more Depth passes
[17:33:14]<anonimasu> I have a lingering suspicion that runout snaps small carbide bits because of uneven loading...
[17:33:21]<anonimasu> beacuse they are more brittle then hss
[17:33:43]<fragalot> anonimasu: likely
[17:33:55]<fragalot> hence the proposed investment in a decent hss bit
[17:34:09]<tom3p> ugh, carbide no like hammering ( runout ) likes constant pressure
[17:34:17]<IchGuckLive> Diamant cutters are most effective
[17:34:34]<IchGuckLive> 2.5mm at 1.9Euro
[17:34:48]<fragalot> 2.5mm is to big
[17:34:59]<IchGuckLive> oh bad
[17:35:06]<fragalot> i'm milling it with a 1mm 2 spiral end mill at the moment
[17:35:20]<fragalot> which is just on the verge of beeing too large
[17:35:21]<IchGuckLive> PCB engraving
[17:35:44]<fragalot> PCB engraving is easy
[17:36:02]<IchGuckLive> i use 0,6mm for that
[17:36:25]<fragalot> I use .1mm, .2 or .3 depending on...
[17:36:35]<fragalot> and 1mm to cut the countour
[17:36:42]<IchGuckLive> agree
[17:37:11]<IchGuckLive> but the 30deg engraver is on 8eur and the 0,6 is only 1,2
[17:37:15]<fragalot> can't mill out TQFP-144 footprints with .6mm
[17:37:22]<fragalot> IchGuckLive: my bits are 1 euro each..
[17:37:30]<fragalot> and for PCBs they work brilliantly
[17:37:46]<IchGuckLive> available in europ ?
[17:37:49]<fragalot> ebay
[17:38:05]<IchGuckLive> witch seller ß
[17:38:25]<fragalot> hold on
[17:39:11]<fragalot> supermario-cb
[17:39:19]<fragalot> IchGuckLive: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/SUPERWORKSHOP-BITBITWORLD?_rdc=1[17:41:09]<IchGuckLive> delivery in ? Days
[17:41:23]<IchGuckLive> up to 50Days somtimes
[17:42:44]<fragalot> forgot
[17:43:11]<fragalot> I think it took about 2 weeks for me
[17:47:37]<IchGuckLive> i will test the 30Deg 0,2mm
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[17:48:01]<IchGuckLive> 5 for 8.5Eur
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[17:52:11]<IchGuckLive> by ned to go
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[19:46:17]<Connor> okay, so, question, what does everyone do with the extra wire on the stepper motors? My motors came with the wires loose, and not in insulation.. I'm using 4 conductor stranded alarm wire for hookup.. I have it in a drag chain, but, don't like the idea of the loose wires being in it, and my splice being exposed..
[19:49:34]<archivist> I heat shrink a sleeve to insulate and protect
[19:51:21]<Connor> How much wire do you use from the motor vs the new wire ?
[19:51:28]<Jymmm> split-loom tubing, spiral wrap, and/or shrink wrap.
[19:51:35]<Jymmm> like I said last night
[19:51:50]<Connor> I didn't see anything last night.. went to bed before I got a response.
[19:54:35]<tom3p> throw the xtra wire up in the air ( works great for a short time old cheech chong joke ;) really, cap it off any way you like, shrink tube or wire nut or butt splice or electricians tape.
[19:58:57]<mrsunshine> has anyone made themselfs high accuracy grinding machines? ... is it possible to cnc something like that to make special profiles? :)
[20:03:00]<tom3p> cnc grinder or cnc wheel dresser? its been a long time but there was interest in cnc grinding with emc2 ( may have been years now )
[20:03:33]<tom3p> and more recently, emc2 control of grinding for optics
[20:03:41]<tom3p> you'd have to search the logs
[20:08:27]<mrsunshine> tom3p, well im thinking something like having a small ball grinder or something to make rails for ball bearing stuff and so =)
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[20:20:27]<tom3p> ball bearing? thats uber precision, always was impressed by how cheap and how precise bearings are
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[20:30:21]<archivist> the secret is not making balls with cnc, its the measuring,grading and putting them back in the polishing/grinding machine
[20:35:21]<tom3p> agreed
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[20:56:08]<anonimasu> how much would some of you charge to make this kind of part with the tolerances -0.00mm +0.10mm http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/testpart.png[20:59:47] -!- FinboySlick has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[21:00:59]<anonimasu> in aluminium or acetal(maybe both)
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[21:02:32]<DaViruz> size?
[21:02:43]<anonimasu> 160mm x 30
[21:02:45]<anonimasu> mm
[21:03:59]<anonimasu> x15mm
[21:05:39]<jthornton> looks like you need a 5 axis machine to make that
[21:06:03]<anonimasu> it's a 4 axis past
[21:06:06]<anonimasu> part...
[21:06:26]<anonimasu> or 3 with flipping it around, letters have a 10 deg draft ange around
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[21:14:36]<DaViruz> with +0.1mm tolerance i get the impression that it can be done on a 3 axis
[21:14:59]<DaViruz> if the undercut on the text is below 0.1mm..
[21:15:27]<anonimasu> and text is not dimension critical
[21:15:44]<DaViruz> the short edges of the platau will probably be problematic too
[21:16:02]<anonimasu> i have no problem making it, just wondering :)
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[21:16:47]micges_ is now known as micges[21:17:28]<DaViruz> i would have (problems making it)
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[21:21:22]<anonimasu> I have no idea what a shop would take to make that kind of part...
[21:22:11]<Farthen> did you do it for testing and want to sell it? :-P
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[21:23:18]<anonimasu> -_- no, im wondering how much a part like this goes for since im trying to figure out how much to charge
[21:24:31]<anonimasu> :)
[21:25:00]<anonimasu> since I really have no clue about how much mold insets and stuff cost to make
[21:27:16]<L84Supper> the quantity ordered affects the price
[21:27:31]<DaViruz> 4-500SEK /hour
[21:27:34]<anonimasu> let's say a run of 1-3 parts at a time random spacing
[21:27:49]<DaViruz> is what a friend of mine with a machine shop charges
[21:27:52]<anonimasu> of the runs
[21:30:46]<L84Supper> a few $K for setup and headaches + $250 ea
[21:32:05]<fragalot> DaViruz: still have to factor in tooling costs, material costs, setup time, time taken per part, number of parts, time taken to replace parts, time taken replacing worn tools...
[21:32:24]<fragalot> though not so much in small runs like that
[21:32:24]<fragalot> :P
[21:32:30]<anonimasu> with a 3 week deadline for the first run of parts
[21:32:57]<anonimasu> to sort out fixturing and stuff
[21:33:01]<DaViruz> fragalot: obviously
[21:33:23]<fragalot> anonimasu: I'd see how much time it would take to make everything to clamp it down with for a start
[21:33:51]<anonimasu> that should be about 2 hours I think..
[21:34:37]<fragalot> add in a margin, add parts, your setup time, tooling costs and runtime then
[21:34:47]<fragalot> add a profit margin, and you've got a rough price estimate
[21:35:38]<anonimasu> and the parts should take like 1 hour to cut..
[21:35:44]<anonimasu> maximum
[21:37:43]<L84Supper>http://www.designworldonline.com/articles/7046/4/Plastic-Bearings-and-Linear-Guides-Put-the-Moves-on-MRI-guided-Robot.aspx[21:54:19] -!- Fox_Muldr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
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[22:22:48]<Eik0> anonimasu: +reminder that is for me = lower price :)
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[22:23:50]<anonimasu> for your boss :)
[22:24:02]<anonimasu> for you i'd make them for free ^_^
[22:24:13]<Eik0> sure thing ;)
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[23:01:08]<atom1> anonimasu what's up?
[23:01:19]<atom1> you gettin your mesa boards figured out?
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[23:39:23]<anonimasu> atom1: yeah slowly, but it seems the pinout from my old firmware is not the same as with the new one
[23:39:27]<anonimasu> that's why it dosent match
[23:39:40]<anonimasu> otherwise I'd all up and running since a week
[23:39:44]<anonimasu> (not the lathe tho)
[23:39:49]<anonimasu> the cutting machine at work for now
[23:39:50]<atom1> which firmware?
[23:40:20]<anonimasu> the one for the 7i43
[23:40:35]<anonimasu> the bitfile that emc loads into the board
[23:40:37]<atom1> you loaded a different config?
[23:40:53]<anonimasu> I got one from pcw because the included one wouldnt load onto my boards
[23:41:18]<atom1> is it better to use one from emc or download from mesa site?
[23:41:32]<anonimasu> the emc one i guess is the right one to use
[23:41:45]<anonimasu> but as to why the pins are different i have no clue about
[23:41:45]<atom1> i'd think they should be the same
[23:42:08]<anonimasu> bbl, gonna head to bed soon gotta get the stuff running tomorrow
[23:42:16]<atom1> ok
[23:42:23]<atom1> i'm still contemplating what to get
[23:42:27]<anonimasu> yeah, but there was something special that the emc one didnt work for my boards
[23:42:34]<atom1> haven't had much time to think about it really
[23:42:47]<anonimasu> I'd take the bigger boards(more headers) so you can expand as needed...
[23:42:47]<atom1> why did you get the daughter boards?
[23:43:06]<atom1> i'm thinking the 7I43
[23:43:29]<atom1> but if i want a jog wheel i'll have to add some stuff i think