Godmoney wrote:I know you think you can just say things and they become true, but it actually takes me about 10 seconds to bring up the game log and see that LeBron scored 12 points in the 4th/OTs with Jeff Green on him. I said I agree that Jeff made him work. Not sure why I'm even being grilled on that statement. Also how has Jeff Green not been terrible since the Rondo injury? You both actually think he was having a good season?

What? Anyway, Green has had a good season so far nomatter how you spin it. Yes he started slow, understandable considering he hadn't played ball for a year. But his overall production this year has exceeded my expectations for him, I mean just look at the numbers;

I have no clue what more people expected, his overall production this year has been good and the best part is that he's improving after starting slow. I would've been worried if he went the other way but the fact that he's looking better out there for every game and better as his role grows, makes me optimistic about his future.

Godmoney wrote:Green is kind of nice off the bench. Remember, this is a guy who vanishes if he plays with guys who are more assertive than him. It makes a lot of sense to me to put him on a unit where he is more of a focal point than to play him on the starting unit where he is a tertiary player.

He is "kind of" nice off the bench? I can assure you that every single team in the league would LOVE to have Green coming off the bench.

Some of you guys have a weird personal vendetta against this kid and can't admit you were wrong about him. He is a damn good player.

1. Brandon Bass is the weakest link in the starting 52. Jeff Green is historically bad at PF

Not every PF is Luis Scola. Green is not good defensively against stronger/bulkier players. He doesnt have the center of gravity needed to stop drives through his body consistently or deny position in the post.

However, over the past few weeks Green has been dominant defensively when playing the 3/2 positions. Offensively, he has grown substantially using his size at those positions as well.

None of this changes the fact that Brandon Bass has failed to adaquately man the PF position. Regardless of Green's limitations as a PF, he is a better player than Bass and needs a larger role on this team. There are too many wings and guards on this roster who are also better than Bass.

Thus, logic dictates that Green should see more time at the 4....maybe as the starter, despite his limitations there.

If Doc were smart he'd keep Green/Williams/Crawford in the rotation as 4/3/2 and drop Bass into situational usage. He's had enough time to fix himself, this is a lost season for him.

1. Brandon Bass is the weakest link in the starting 52. Jeff Green is historically bad at PF

Not every PF is Luis Scola. Green is not good defensively against stronger/bulkier players. He doesnt have the center of gravity needed to stop drives through his body consistently or deny position in the post.

However, over the past few weeks Green has been dominant defensively when playing the 3/2 positions. Offensively, he has grown substantially using his size at those positions as well.

None of this changes the fact that Brandon Bass has failed to adaquately man the PF position. Regardless of Green's limitations as a PF, he is a better player than Bass and needs a larger role on this team. There are too many wings and guards on this roster who are also better than Bass.

Thus, logic dictates that Green should see more time at the 4....maybe as the starter, despite his limitations there.

If Doc were smart he'd keep Green/Williams/Crawford in the rotation as 4/3/2 and drop Bass into situational usage. He's had enough time to fix himself, this is a lost season for him.

It's almost as if you're arguing that Pierce should be defending the 4.

Both teams played hard. Rec league teams play hard. Every team should play hard.

"Well" is arguable. 4 losses in 7 games. One of the wins was one of the ugliest NBA games in recent history. Last one was an OT one-possession win against a 7th seed, by a 7th seed. The other win...well, I'll get to that. The Celts are in a position now where, to have any plausible hope of competing for a title, they'll need a player to step out from the middling pack and assert his game-changing talent, if any such player has any such talent. It seems Doc must think the savior will be Brandon "The Colossus" Bass, either via some magical synergistic property wherein Bass makes average teammates good and good teammates great despite being underwhelming himself, or via some surprise reservoir of big-time talent that we need only wait to erupt when Bass overcomes his shyness and stops denying his own majesty. Meanwhile, in that other aforementioned win, the one the team won by 25 points, Jeff "Poopie" Green put up 31 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 5 blocks on 11-14 shooting, 3-5 from three, 6-7 at the line, with 1 turnover, 1 foul, in 39 minutes, all while the other team's big men dropped a deuce on the court. And ever since Doc has had the wisdom to half-reward and half-test Green by starting him at PF the last two games against teams whose frontlines were not exceptionally intimidating, to figure out if Green really can take a leap forward if he plays most of the game in the synergistic presence of the team's best players rather than the depleted bench, to see if...oh, whoops, my bad, Bass the Magnificent is back to starting again and Green is back at the kiddy table. One more game of this crap away from "Fire Doc", I swear.

Let's not go overboard here and start a lynch mob for Doc over Green/Bass thing. Don't take 1 game and over blow it into something bigger. Jeff the Great followed up his big game with 2 crappy ones. I also like Jeff Green more than Bass too, but it's not like Green is the answer to all our ills. He's way too inconsistent right now. Besides, the way the 2 players play, Jeff Green is better suited to be our 6th man because he is essentially our go-to guy when PP and KG are out.

tombattor wrote:Let's not go overboard here and start a lynch mob for Doc over Green/Bass thing. Don't take 1 game and over blow it into something bigger. Jeff the Great followed up his big game with 2 crappy ones.

Off the bench. Playing only sporadically with the team's best players. No hope for any synergy that might bring.

I also like Jeff Green more than Bass too, but it's not like Green is the answer to all our ills. He's way too inconsistent right now.

We don't know how consistent he would be starting. So far, he's 1-for-1 in terms of Beasting When Starting. I know it's an age-old chicken/egg quandary, if a player could play better in a heightened role or if a player doesn't have a heightened role because he needs to play better, etc. But for heaven's sake, at least give the dude a chance to go 1-for-2. If Nassim Taleb were advising Ainge and Doc, he might say something about becoming antifragile to the misfortune of team-wide injuries only being possible if you are open to any positive black swans that might emerge in the aftermath, or something. Other than every competitor's stars getting crippled with a fluke ACL epidemic, Jeff Green is our only plausible black swan left, one that has peeked its head out, one we can maybe even actually anticipate and capitalize on. If we can just get out of the procrustean bed of "team chemistry" or "experience" or "matchups" or whatever it is that keeps Bass in the starting lineup and that Taleb the basketball consultant would scorn mercilessly.

Besides, the way the 2 players play, Jeff Green is better suited to be our 6th man because he is essentially our go-to guy when PP and KG are out.

I'd rather see if maybe we can get more 15-25 point leads on teams and not have to give as much of a **** about the 6th man.

wigglestrue, I see all your points. I think there is no real answer to whether Jeff Green will become more consistent in the starting lineup vs coming off the bench. It's like you said, chicken/egg type of discussion.

Also for the 6th man thing, no matter how good your starting lineup is, they can't play the entire game. We need someone to take on the scoring load on the 2nd unit. Bass isn't capable of being that player. Jeff Green is. And as much as it would be nice to see Jeff Green play with PP, KG, etc more, IMO, it's more important to make sure we don't have stretches of 5-10 minutes each half where we don't have any real offensive option on the floor.

If Jordan Crawford can become a JR Smith type, where he can come off the bench and give us 12~15 points as the main scoring option on the 2nd unit, I can see Jeff Green moving into the starting lineup, but until then, we just can't have periods where we're just not competing.

Recently here, someone bristled at the idea that Doc was ever in danger of being fired in 2006-07 because, as the person claimed, Doc never lost the team despite losing almost 20 games in a row. Conveniently forgotten in that claim is the fact (relayed to us here second-hand by a friend of Big Al) that the team, led by Paul Pierce (his finest moment as a Celtic, imo) had to practically stage a mutiny against Doc to get him to involve Big Al more. Remember that? It was the only reason the Celtics were able to get KG, that Big Al was afforded a proper opportunity to produce, one that he deserved, one the team needed, the franchise needed, and one that Doc was unwilling to grant until the players turned on him. It was the positive black swan in that disaster of a season, but actually more like a grey swan or something, because the front office and especially the coaching staff and especially Doc ought to have known better. Hell, maybe it's not all on Doc. Maybe the reason for Bass continuing to start is related to some theory from Danny's in-house phrenologist or brain doctor or whatever. Or some enterprising well-meaning nerd whose pet metric shows that Bass contributes more than meets the eye. More than meets the nose, more like it. And the brain. Anyway, I don't know. Not about that. I do know, with as much certainty as it's possible for some schmuck on an internet message board to know, that Green should have started the last two games, and should probably be locked in to start the next 25.