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I don't understand the Tea Party. Any Tea Partiers in here? Is it just a new branch in the Republican Party?

I don't understand why it is a "populist" movement - but so against health care reform, for example. It seems (to me) its really some kind of civil libertarian movement.

I dunno, I guess as a born and bred Democrat, I'll never really get the logic. Could you be unemployed and still be a Tea Partier, this year? Could you be uninsured and be a Tea Partier? Could you be struggling for a secure present and future and be a Tea Partier?

It reminds me of those California college students I met this summer in Europe. Who were such civil libertarians - universal health care??? Who needs that? No clue whatsoever about how capitalism can make some peoples lives a pile crap and worry.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

You might find this survey from a few months ago pretty interesting -- lots of detail about opinions of people who say they support the tea party

A New York Times/CBS News poll of backers of the emerging Tea Party movement shows that its supporters are more affluent and better educated than the general public. They tend to be white, male, and married. They are loyal Republicans, with conservative opinions on a variety of issues. And their strong opposition to the Obama administration is more rooted in political ideology than anxiety about their personal economic situation

They tend to be white, male, and married. They are loyal Republicans, with conservative opinions on a variety of issues. And their strong opposition to the Obama administration is more rooted in political ideology than anxiety about their personal economic situation

Also, I always feel there is a lot of underlying racial prejudice involved....just sayin'

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"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

I think it's hard for any one of us to identify with any conservative political movement for a couple of pretty basic reasons. We're all minorities in one way or another and that is not who conservativism serves. I'm a white male and southern which is the target for say republican or tea party ideals, but I'm also gay and hiv+. I do have my conservative leanings, but most of them are financial. This of course ignoring the fact that the republicans are no longer the party of fiscal responsibility. Anyway, I could never be a part of a political movement that sought to broaden the financial gap between people, deny healthcare or education to anyone, or deny civil rights. Those things are so ingrained in conservativism now I have no idea how those parties are still able to appeal to younger people. If they ran on a platform of economic reform alone without all the gray social issues they might be a more desirable party to younger people, but they keep going further and further right and into insane territory.

Granny60

I dunno, I guess as a born and bred Democrat, I'll never really get the logic.

i clearly see your problem understanding mech...... it is the breeding and born Democrat part. Tea baggers are conjurred up by the witches in the coven and do not breed, hence your lack of understanding! Now where did I hide the wooden stakes and silver bullets?

My understanding off the tea party is that it angry right wing simplistic Christian and potentially very dangerous hopefully it will show itself as your basic ludicrous power drive by Sarah palim and co that will disintergrate under real responsibility and give us all a good laugh.However listening to them on the BBC world service and sensing the Republican establishment wanting to draw them in , they could be scary.t

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"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ." Tony Benn

“Over the last generation,” the authors write, “more and more of the rewards of growth have gone to the rich and superrich. The rest of America, from the poor through the upper middle class, has fallen further and further behind.”

As if to underscore this theme, it was revealed last week (by David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning former reporter for The New York Times), that the incomes of the very highest earners in the United States, a small group of individuals hauling in more than $50 million annually (sometimes much more), increased fivefold from 2008 to 2009, even as the nation was being rocked by the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

Last year was a terrific year for those at the very top. Professors Hacker and Pierson note in their book that investors and executives at the nation’s 38 largest companies earned a stunning total of $140 billion — a record. The investment firm Goldman Sachs paid bonuses to its employees that averaged nearly $600,000 per person, its best year since it was founded in 1869.

Something has gone seriously haywire in the distribution of the fruits of the American economy.

Granny60

Neither did the democrats. How did the DADT go? How did the gay marriage go? Simple promises that he couldn't even take care of.

So Roddy, what do you think you will have if the republicans get rid of health care and make the gays all hide quaking under a rug because retaliation and retribution are the norm? The republican right wing wack jobs and the nut case Rand Paul have already said they would introduce legislation to repeal healthcare. Every side has to give and take. Dems gave a little to get a lot done in a short while. Republicans never have done shit but bitch because the democrats can run someone attractive and smart enough to get a blow job and they can't, started an expensive war both in $ and lives that can't find the weapons of mass destruction they claimed were there to start with; and then they bitch about expenses?? Give me a break!

... I do have my conservative leanings, but most of them are financial. This of course ignoring the fact that the republicans are no longer the party of fiscal responsibility. ...

Ahem -- there is a big perception vs reality issue here. The fact is that republicans have not been the party of fiscal responsibility since before any of us were born including all but a few years of the early 20th century. There's a handy chart somewhere that George Will (not exactly your bleeding heart liberal) was using over 20 years ago. It shows that the actual fact is that the debt as a percent of GDP tends to increase under Republican Presidents and decrease under Democrats. His explanation is that while Democrats may be the party of tax and spend, Republicans have for decades been the party of borrow and spend.

You may of course say -- but what about RIGHT NOW? Right now, the deficit is large primarily due to the recession bringing tax revenues down. If you graph expenditures and taxes you will see that, even with the increases in government spending due to additional unemployment the spending line is continuing on its historical path (which we need to do something about) The huge deficits are caused by a sudden change in the slope of the tax rates. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/why-have-deficits-exploded/

And, like a typical Democratic President, Obama already has a bipartisan commission looking at ways to bring the deficit and debt down.

It will be interesting to see how things go with the Repub establishment and these tea-baggers--especially when the House has to raise the debt ceiling in the Spring. I've had republican friends on facebook so happy and say we need to get spending under control. Where were they when Bush and repubs increased gov't more since Johnson? We can spend over $1 Trillion on a war of choice in Iraq that was not paid for and they don't blink an eye. However, provide healthcare that will save $1 Trillion and all hell breaks loose.

How do they plan to decrease spending? Rand Paul talked about raising the retirement age early in the election, but pulled that back. They want to keep the Bush tax cuts in place that were never paid for. Those tax cuts have been in place for almost a decade and obviously don't work. They don't want to cut defense. So, where are the cuts coming from? They like to talk about these $1 million dollar grants to science museums and the like. However, that is pocket change in the big picture. If they are serious about cutting spending, then they will have to raise taxes, cut defense and Medicare---3 things even the tea-baggers seem unwilling to do.

In exit polls, it was older folks already on Medicare or getting close to being on it who most wanted healthcare repealed. So, they want their healthcare but don't want anyone else to have it. How generous of them!

Frankly all this bickering about Repubs and Dems and who's right and who's wrong is just chatter in my opinion.

I worry about my brothers and sisters in the midst of the ADAP crisis, those who have just been kicked off or who are on waiting lists. Those who have to go to bed and wonder where they are going to get their Meds and If they are going to be alive next year. I had high hopes for "change" under Obama and a Democratic Congress...but in 2 years very little has been done to address the ADAP problem, and I'm MAD over that! The Democrats have shown that they are going to do nothing to address this Crisis and it's obvious they dont intend to do anything about it (until maybe 3 years from now)so it's time for them to go!!

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...Repub Pres (2006?) appropriated emergency funds to clear ADAP waiting lists...2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.

I'm not ashamed to be a one-issue man. I'm not Repub or Dem, I'm for a group who will help out my brothers and sisters. If I needed only one reason to fire the Democrats that would be it. I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell.

Frankly all this bickering about Repubs and Dems and who's right and who's wrong is just chatter in my opinion.

I worry about my brothers and sisters in the midst of the ADAP crisis, those who have just been kicked off or who are on waiting lists. Those who have to go to bed and wonder where they are going to get their Meds and If they are going to be alive next year. I had high hopes for "change" under Obama and a Democratic Congress...but in 2 years very little has been done to address the ADAP problem, and I'm MAD over that! The Democrats have shown that they are going to do nothing to address this Crisis and it's obvious they dont intend to do anything about it (until maybe 3 years from now)so it's time for them to go!!

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...Repub Pres (2006?) appropriated emergency funds to clear ADAP waiting lists...2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.

I'm not ashamed to be a one-issue man. I'm not Repub or Dem, I'm for a group who will help out my brothers and sisters. If I needed only one reason to fire the Democrats that would be it. I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell.

-Will

Bravo! I say we raise the price of the cookbook and we start to fund a "Will in 2012" campaign!

“As if to underscore this theme, it was revealed last week (by David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning former reporter for The New York Times), that the incomes of the very highest earners in the United States, a small group of individuals hauling in more than $50 million annually (sometimes much more), increased fivefold from 2008 to 2009, even as the nation was being rocked by the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

I'm trying to figure out what these people could possibly be doing to earn this kind of money? $50,000000 in one year for one person? Isn't that like $12,000/hr, if they work 80 hours a week?

IMHO tea baggers are libertarians that just haven't been in a position where they needed to rely on gov't. I see this as part of what we're likely to continue to see... interest groups increasingly irate about their share of the pie. If the tea baggers make cuts that begin to drive the disabled into the streets, you will see the charge of the wheel chair brigade descend upon DC.

The problem is that the US has been a pig at the trough for a long time. The rest of the world has finally begun to demand their share (think China, India, Brazil, etc.) I see no way the US can compete against the rest of the world and maintain the middle class as we have known it. In time the pie will grow larger for all, but in the short run, it's our time to feel some pain. Unfortunately, Americans seem to be so oblivious to their relative wealth, they continue to delude themselves that with the right tinkering, the government can make things go back to 2005. Tea baggers are an "each man for himself" party and screw the rest of the country... real patriots! IMHO this is the time we need just the opposite... the German strategy of spreading the pain across society to limit the number that end up in total financial ruin.

Commodity inflation will eventually make us all poorer and that's just something we better get used to... being happy with what you need, not what you want.

This is a great example of what to expect from the tea-baggers. Bill Maher showed this video last Friday. He pointed out that progressives don't act this way. This video is a great example of how repubs/tea-baggers feel. I had a family member who said people on unemployment for more than a couple months were just lazy. He said they should get a job at McDonald's. I said, "First of all, unemployment is called unemployment insurance for a reason. It is not a hand-out. Secondly, you would have the bread winner of a family give up benefits he/she has earned to go work at McDonald's, which would cause them to loose their house, car, and money for kids?" They would end up on welfare--if they could get it.

Granny60

Asshole teabagger should quit what he is doing and go get that job a McDonalds and see how long he can maintain his wonderful lifestyle of nice home, insurance and gas hog SUV. Prick would be crying the instant he saw his first paycheck.

Asshole teabagger should quit what he is doing and go get that job a McDonalds and see how long he can maintain his wonderful lifestyle of nice home, insurance and gas hog SUV. Prick would be crying the instant he saw his first paycheck.

There are not enough jobs since a lot of the democratics are going to be pushing to the front of the lines at the unemployment office. Bush didn't have anything to do with this midterm elections and there weren't enough teaparty people to pull this off. So as Obama admitted Wednesday he takes full responsibilty for the election results, which is rightly so. Let's bring up the trip to Asia, and your concerns about ADAP funding. How much money will be spent on this trip and will it be a failure like the pitch for the Olympics? Like with the elections we'll have to wait and see.

Let's bring up the trip to Asia, and your concerns about ADAP funding. How much money will be spent on this trip and will it be a failure like the pitch for the Olympics? Like with the elections we'll have to wait and see.

It's amazing how much of a sucker for propaganda you always are. Reminds me of your hatchet job with Gov. Rendell's fictitious baby killing factory in Harrisburg. Why anyone here doesn't dismiss 110% of your political posts is beyond me (oh wait, most people do!)

Frankly all this bickering about Repubs and Dems and who's right and who's wrong is just chatter in my opinion.

I worry about my brothers and sisters in the midst of the ADAP crisis, those who have just been kicked off or who are on waiting lists. Those who have to go to bed and wonder where they are going to get their Meds and If they are going to be alive next year. I had high hopes for "change" under Obama and a Democratic Congress...but in 2 years very little has been done to address the ADAP problem, and I'm MAD over that! The Democrats have shown that they are going to do nothing to address this Crisis and it's obvious they dont intend to do anything about it (until maybe 3 years from now)so it's time for them to go!!

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...Repub Pres (2006?) appropriated emergency funds to clear ADAP waiting lists...2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.

I'm not ashamed to be a one-issue man. I'm not Repub or Dem, I'm for a group who will help out my brothers and sisters. If I needed only one reason to fire the Democrats that would be it. I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell.

-Will

I fear I don't believe you are without political motives. Because, you see, if you really look at the last two years without blinders what happened in reality is this:

1) In 2009 the Ryan White care act was reauthorized. It passed the Senate unanimously, but in the House there were 9 votes against it. Surprising no-one (else) all 9 nay votes were by Republicans. In fact, 4 of those Republicans were from Texas.

2) This Senate maneuver looks suspiciously like show-boating. The bill introduced by Burns has only 5 Senators signed on to it -- all Republicans and none in the leadership; there is no corresponding bill in the House. If a Senator really wants to make a change in the law they go for co-sponsors; and it is really quite peculiar that Burns didn't get his fellow NC senator (who is also on the HELP committee) as a co-sponsor from the other party. It indicates a certain lack of commitment to the bill.

3) You make no mention of the letter in the House, signed by 75 Democrats and 1 (and only one) Republican which was sent to the Administration and actually got them to free up $20 million in additional monies.

4) And you seem to ignore the fact that federal funding went up for ADAP this year , even before the extra $20 million, while state funding declined on average by a third. NASTAD (which is a collection of state employees), tries its best to disguise this fact in its published reports, pointing out that the federal dollars did not go up enough (true -- but they were 35% or more in the right direction than the States) and suggesting that the States reduced funding due to budget problems with Medicaid. But who stood in the way of additional stimulus money for State Medicaid?... well, that would be Senate Republicans...

5) Finally, since this is driven by State choices about where to reduce funding, perhaps it would make sense to look at the States that have implemented waiting lists and look at which party controls that State. Something tells me the answer is likely to swing pretty red there also, although a careful analysis would need to look at both the governor and legislature control.

Frankly, the Administration can and should do more to push support for ADAP through Congress. But the indirect efforts they have taken to date to relieve pressure on State budgets have been frustrated by Senate Republicans. To argue that this fig leaf of a bill in the Senate, supported by almost none of the Republicans and not actively pushed by its sponsors somehow gives Republicans a free pass is either naive or disingenuous.

Is that the best you can do after another of your factually challenged assertions? Typical trolling, and pathetic.

ps: hats off to Assurbanipal, including many points I've tried repeatedly to make about the current ADAP crisis the past four or so months none of which seems to gain much traction, or is fo only for five minutes. Fortunately his post there was more succinct than what I've attempted.

Is that the best you can do after another of your factually challenged assertions? Typical trolling, and pathetic.

ps: hats off to Assurbanipal, including many points I've tried repeatedly to make about the current ADAP crisis the past four or so months none of which seems to gain much traction, or is fo only for five minutes. Fortunately his post there was more succinct than what I've attempted.

As if Tuesday’s shellacking wasn’t enough, President Barack Obama is getting pilloried by the right on the cost of his 10-day trip to Asia, with outlandish hyperventilation going directly from suspect Indian media reports to conservative U.S. media outlets and commentators without a pause for fact-checking.

First, the Press Trust of India reported that Mr. Obama’s entourage would be spending $200 million a day for two days in India, a claim that was quickly repeated last night by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R., Minn.) on CNN. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said, “The numbers reported in this article have no basis in reality,” and are “wildly inflated,” but “due to security concerns,” he would not offer an alternative price tag.

Snopes.com, a website devoted to myth busting, noted that even if the Indian press has correctly reported the size of the president’s entourage – 3,000 – the cost would work out to $66,000 per person per day, “a figure that stretches credulity to the breaking point.” Factcheck.org noted that the entire war in Afghanistan costs $190 million a day.

But the report is demonstrably incorrect. It says the White House had blocked off the entire Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai – it hasn’t – and that the press traveling with Mr. Obama will be staying there. We won’t. Besides, the press pays its own way at considerable cost to the media outlets, not the U.S. taxpayer.

Now a new rumor has emerged courtesy of India’s NDTV. Mr. Obama, the outlet says, “will be protected by a fleet of 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, which will patrol the sea lanes off the Mumbai coast.” The White House called that ridiculous. But on the conservative Drudge Report website, it’s on the home page – in huge type.

And he and his 1000 number entourage will be transported on diamond bedazzled elephants, thousands of kilometers across highways strewn with rose petals, all paid for by the White House. They are all staying in luxury suites in the best Indian palaces. blah blah blah blah

« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 07:13:06 PM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

As if Tuesday’s shellacking wasn’t enough, President Barack Obama is getting pilloried by the right on the cost of his 10-day trip to Asia, with outlandish hyperventilation going directly from suspect Indian media reports to conservative U.S. media outlets and commentators without a pause for fact-checking.

First, the Press Trust of India reported that Mr. Obama’s entourage would be spending $200 million a day for two days in India, a claim that was quickly repeated last night by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R., Minn.) on CNN. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said, “The numbers reported in this article have no basis in reality,” and are “wildly inflated,” but “due to security concerns,” he would not offer an alternative price tag.

Snopes.com, a website devoted to myth busting, noted that even if the Indian press has correctly reported the size of the president’s entourage – 3,000 – the cost would work out to $66,000 per person per day, “a figure that stretches credulity to the breaking point.” Factcheck.org noted that the entire war in Afghanistan costs $190 million a day.

But the report is demonstrably incorrect. It says the White House had blocked off the entire Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai – it hasn’t – and that the press traveling with Mr. Obama will be staying there. We won’t. Besides, the press pays its own way at considerable cost to the media outlets, not the U.S. taxpayer.

Now a new rumor has emerged courtesy of India’s NDTV. Mr. Obama, the outlet says, “will be protected by a fleet of 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, which will patrol the sea lanes off the Mumbai coast.” The White House called that ridiculous. But on the conservative Drudge Report website, it’s on the home page – in huge type.

Did Penn. flip or not?. Did I say how much the trip cost? No, I said we will have to wait and see.

Still moving the goal posts I see and trying to make your faulty, erroneous statement about someone (or something) else. A simple reading by anyone here can see what you're doing (and attempt to do all of the time).

Still moving the goal posts I see and trying to make your faulty, erroneous statement about someone (or something) else. A simple reading by anyone here can see what you're doing (and attempt to do all of the time).

I do believe Ms P you have got it all backwards. Enjoy your stay in your newly Republican state.

Roddles, you either have a very low IQ, dementia or you sniff glue all day. First you made a comment that we can't afford to fully fund ADAP because Obama is making a trip to India. I point out that this is erroneous information being sent out in a concerted manner by right wing blowhards like Beck, Limbaugh, etc which, as usual, you lap up without any sort of independent analysis (complete with factual links), then you try and move the goal posts with a comment about the election results in the state I live in, something that has no bearing at all on what's being discussed.

In short, you're a troll. And not a particularly compelling or savvy one at that. I'm going with "sniffs glue" if it's any consolation.

Roddles, you either have a very low IQ, dementia or you sniff glue all day. First you made a comment that we can't afford to fully fund ADAP because Obama is making a trip to India. I point out that this is erroneous information being sent out in a concerted manner by right wing blowhards like Beck, Limbaugh, etc which, as usual, you lap up without any sort of independent analysis (complete with factual links), then you try and move the goal posts with a comment about the election results in the state I live in, something that has no bearing at all on what's being discussed.

In short, you're a troll. And not a particularly compelling or savvy one at that. I'm going with "sniffs glue" if it's any consolation.

I fear I don't believe you are without political motives. Because, you see, if you really look at the last two years without blinders what happened in reality is this:

Political Motives? Frankly I could care less about who was in power for the last 2 years whether it be Obama, Bush or Mother Theresa...the Fact is that ADAP is still in crisis, and ultimately the responsibility lies at the feet of the current Congress and current President. Period.

BTW, I voted for Bush, AND I voted for Obama.

You can lay out as many points as you wish however it doesnt change the fact that there are still upwards of 3000 people on ADAP waiting lists, and the fact remains that under the Democratic Congress very little would change. Did I absolutey state unequivocally that the Repubs would take care of this? No I did not. Re read my post.

Sure the Dems got some money freed up for ADAP, but If you recognize that $25million is necessary to provide a quality of life and access to drugs for "some" people why the hell wouldn't you do the full $126million and take care of everybody on the list? This is the crap that pisses me off. Oh and this wonderful "Test and Treat" initiative, it should be called "Test and put you on the back burner cause we will not fund ADAP and we cannot even get the current people waiting on Meds" While I applaud the T&T initiative, I laugh because there are no means to "treat" the people. Do they think we are stupid? Apparently so.

If you want to solve the ADAP crisis, you must look to each state and their contributions to the program. The reason there are waiting lists, is NOT because of Congress or the president, it is because of states that cut their funding. If all state funding for ADAP had remained stable over the past few years, there would be no waiting lists. Check the facts and you will find that states like Florida, have purposely reduced their formulary, while changing eligibility so they provide fewer drugs to fewer patients. This has nothing to do with Washington, but everything to do with local state government. If you really want change, you need to understand what the problem is and exactly who can fix it.