This where Oly guys make me crazy. There is ZERO, i mean zero research showing Oly lifting make you faster. They might have timed some lifters in Mexico in 68 or something, but the whole Oly thing is an echo chamber.

If somebody is looking for hip snap, teaching them to swing the Kb leading with their hips is the best drill i know or have ever done.

The truth is i have seen 8-10 year olds who have never lifted a weight in their life explode their hips as they tackle somebody. I suspect this cannot really be taught effectively for carryover to the field of play.

Pllllbp. In addition to the other comments, I'd like to add that there are different kinds of KB snatches. A DB swing looks a lot like a swing snatch, sure, but a pull snatch comes straight up. Like Bill said, dead snatch the 88 and see wha happa.

GDG!

_________________The flesh is weak, and the smell of pussy is strong like a muthafucka.

So now snatching a bar develops different athletic abilities then snatching a KB. Obviously fat boy has never dead snatched the 40kg.

I'm off to stir some shit.

B

Bill, having read your post here and your post on XFit, I am unclear as to what your claim is. It seems clear to me that snatching a barbell and snatching a kettlebell develop different athletic abilities, if only because the groove of the KB snatch and the groove of the snatch are very different, and the latter always admits of a greater load.

The 'scoop' - as far as I can tell, the 'scoop' is just what happens to your bar path when your properly time your first and second pulls, and looks different in different lifters of international caliber. In every case, though, the purpose of having two distinct pulls is to drive the bar up and back rather than just up, enabling you to lift the maximum amount of weight. The two pulls make it possible for you to lift heavier weights. The off-center weight distribution of the KB forbids the use of this two-part pull; you have to pull all at once and extend all the way through to flip or corkscrew the bell over properly. Somebody properly trained in both KBs and oly lifting will always be able to snatch more total weight with a barbell than he will be able to snatch with one or two kettlebells.

Isn't this all it really boils down to, when you skim the polemical cream off the top and just look at the substance of the argument?

Re. the unique benefits of oly lifting, the argument against the kettlebell seems perfectly sound to me, but it seems like a moot point. You can always put more weight overhead with a barbell than with a kettlebell, so of course oly lifting will always be a better tool for peak power training than KG lifting.

Now, arguing oly lifting against Westside or some other good PL-based training system - THAT would be an interesting argument, and one that would really get at the question of whether the sequence of first/second/third pull/squat under really has a unique value.

The topic on Dr. Squat was specifically Oly lifters beating sprinters in a 10 meter dash. The first sentence of the post indicates that's what he's talking about. There were a dozen threads on DD about it.

Everybody who believes it says it happened in '68 in Mexico, including, according to Makena, Tommy Kono, an alleged witness.

True. But since at least five people, some with half a brain, have tried to find confirmed info about this study and come up with nothing, including alleged witness and sloppy authors who wrote about it, you start getting close to proving a negative.

But you can't, of coarse. Can you give a reference proving this actually happened?

The topic on Dr. Squat was specifically Oly lifters beating sprinters in a 10 meter dash. The first sentence of the post indicates that's what he's talking about. There were a dozen threads on DD about it.

Everybody who believes it says it happened in '68 in Mexico, including, according to Makena, Tommy Kono, an alleged witness.

True. But since at least five people, some with half a brain, have tried to find confirmed info about this study and come up with nothing, including alleged witness and sloppy authors who wrote about it, you start getting close to proving a negative.

But you can't, of coarse. Can you give a reference proving this actually happened?

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