I think the word you're looking for is rebutt. At least I hope it is, for politeness' sake.

And let is recall how Jesus faced his death in certain Christian's favorite gospel, the Gospel of John where Jesus is least human, and in it he has no fear at all:

When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Kidron, where was a garden, into which he entered, himself and his disciples.

Now Judas also, who betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus oft-times resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received the band of soldiers, and officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.

Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon him, went forth, and saith unto them, Whom seek ye?

They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus saith unto them, I am he.

And Judas also, who betrayed him, was standing with them.When therefore he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Again therefore he asked them, Whom seek ye?

And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus answered, I told you that I am he; if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: that the word might be fulfilled which he spake, Of those whom thou hast given me I lost not one.

Simon Peter therefore having a sword drew it, and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. Now the servant's name was Malchus.

Jesus therefore said unto Peter, Put up the sword into the sheath: the cup which the Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

So the band and the chief captain, and the officers of the Jews, seized Jesus and bound him....

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

The story of a god who pretends at being mortal for a bit, pretends to die while wearing a man suit but doesn't and then performs a miracle he had done multiple times before.

Or

The story of a fallible mortal human who emotionally commits himself to a divine belief that it transforms his life and the life of those around him, who then goes and makes the ultimate sacrifice for his beliefs. And his god, so touched, raises him from the dead and is so moved decides to never again ask people to sacrifice to him, just believe and live based on the model of this one human.

Seems to me that in a bid to make Jesus divine, those early Christians really destroyed a much more beautiful, much more profound story.

Its bazaar #1 is a caricature of what Christianity believes. It’s a Gnostic savior who came down from above did what he had to do and returned to where he came from. Not really a human like you and me, didn’t really suffer, and didn’t really die. I have no feeling for this Gnostic savior.

On the other hand, I do have a feeling of pride and respect for #2, nicely put, that’s the Messiah I believe in. The great tragedy is he was broken as he tried to turn the wheel, to change the direction of history.

Check out how Jesus faces death in Mark's Gospel. He is grief stricken when he goes to pray it's not calmly serene, Jesus throws himself on the ground weeping. Get the picture, Jesus was a real human being, have you ever thrown yourself down in tears, fallen down unable to stand under the weight of saddness?

The story of a god who pretends at being mortal for a bit, pretends to die while wearing a man suit but doesn't and then performs a miracle he had done multiple times before.

Or

The story of a fallible mortal human who emotionally commits himself to a divine belief that it transforms his life and the life of those around him, who then goes and makes the ultimate sacrifice for his beliefs. And his god, so touched, raises him from the dead and is so moved decides to never again ask people to sacrifice to him, just believe and live based on the model of this one human.

Seems to me that in a bid to make Jesus divine, those early Christians really destroyed a much more beautiful, much more profound story.

I agree.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...

A debate board is still a ridicuous place to use that outdated word. Thanks for the belly laugh.

And I have refuted your passage from an earlier gospel where Jesus is a human being, with another passage in which Jesus is almost divine and as a consequence, emotionless in the face of death.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

The story of a god who pretends at being mortal for a bit, pretends to die while wearing a man suit but doesn't and then performs a miracle he had done multiple times before.

Or

The story of a fallible mortal human who emotionally commits himself to a divine belief that it transforms his life and the life of those around him, who then goes and makes the ultimate sacrifice for his beliefs. And his god, so touched, raises him from the dead and is so moved decides to never again ask people to sacrifice to him, just believe and live based on the model of this one human.

Seems to me that in a bid to make Jesus divine, those early Christians really destroyed a much more beautiful, much more profound story.

I agree.

So do I, the second verseion is much more moving and compelling then the first.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. AristotleNever discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato.."A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson

A debate board is still a ridicuous place to use that outdated word. Thanks for the belly laugh.

And I have refuted your passage from an earlier gospel where Jesus is a human being, with another passage in which Jesus is almost divine and as a consequence, emotionless in the face of death.

First of all, this entire thread revolves around one another’s subjective feelings or emotions about a topic; therefore, how does anybody “refute” someone else’s opinion? Isn’t that akin to me refuting your opinion that Chocolate is better than Vanilla (because it clearly isn’t).

Secondly, being a human being involves being a H. sapiens.

As for being “emotionless in the face of death” how does one measure someone else’s emotions that they can determine that someone else has no emotions about dying? Was Thích Quảng Đức emotionless in the face of his self-immolation in Vietnam?

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and for recognizing my description of the pathos of the life of Jesus and why it is more emotionally powerful.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.