xfelix wrote:There is also alot of true wisdom in the Bible, if you ever crack it open and actually start reading it, the bible parallels alot with life today.God r0x!!

Actually I think you should really sit down and read it all xfelix, there's nothing wrong with believing in some kind of god, I have thought of it at some times, a large amount of physicists do too, but the bible and ALL current religions are nothing but bad, you can hope to learn some kinds of morality from the bible, but unless you are going to follow the bible word for word (stoning homosexuals, etc) then you cannot believe in the christian god, it doesn't work like that...The funny thing is, religion has probably kept us all from killing each other because of the morality it teaches, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing, it's a hack to stop bad people from doing bad things.

The Riviera Kid wrote:Actually I think you should really sit down and read it all xfelix, there's nothing wrong with believing in some kind of god, I have thought of it at some times, a large amount of physicists do too, but the bible and ALL current religions are nothing but bad, you can hope to learn some kinds of morality from the bible, but unless you are going to follow the bible word for word (stoning homosexuals, etc) then you cannot believe in the christian god, it doesn't work like that...The funny thing is, religion has probably kept us all from killing each other because of the morality it teaches, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing, it's a hack to stop bad people from doing bad things.

P.s Love the first post Goatboy, i lol'ed

How is religion bad? Almost all religions teach people to be better people. Is that really such a bad thing? Also, why would the bible teach to cast stones at homosexuals? Didn't Christ say 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone'? Maybe the law of moses taught such things (as a preparatory law), but the law of Christ doesn't. And even if people don't follow the scriptures word for word, they are still a guide in their lives. How is this such a terrible thing? I have personally gained a powerful testimony of my religion, how are you so sure its all false? Do you have absolute proof (not just theories or nonsensical ideas)?

Religion itself is not necessarily a bad thing. I recognize and agree that religion can (and does) teach people morals. This is not the issue. The issue is that people use religion as an excuse to do terrible things. They use it for personal gain, as a platform to criticize others, to justify murder, etc.

Aside from those somewhat extreme examples, religion teaches people who are otherwise intelligent to believe ridiculous things: Talking snakes, burning talking bushes, multiplying food, walking on water, parting a sea, and many others. It is this dogmatic belief that hinders scientific advancement. Think about Galileo. What if he had not been so oppressed? How much more could we know from him? Or Da Vinci? Copernicus?

faazshift wrote:Also, why would the bible teach to cast stones at homosexuals? Didn't Christ say 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone'? Maybe the law of moses taught such things (as a preparatory law), but the law of Christ doesn't.

It is true that Jesus says that, yes. I don't see how it is related, however. Regardless, the Bible is not a pick-and-choose book. In Lev 18:22 it says "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" Although that is from the Old Testament, it is still quoted by MANY anti-gay Christians today.

faazshift wrote:And even if people don't follow the scriptures word for word, they are still a guide in their lives. How is this such a terrible thing?

It's not. Those people are practicing moderation and skepticism. My problem is with the Bible-bangers out there who believe every single word as the literal truth.

faazshift wrote:I have personally gained a powerful testimony of my religion, how are you so sure its all false? Do you have absolute proof (not just theories or nonsensical ideas)?

I (nor, I assume, The Riveria Kid) are claiming that everything in the Bible is wrong. There is obviously some truth in the Bible, but I think the truth-to-faith ratio is staggeringly in favor of faith. Let me ask you this: Do you have absolute proof (not just theories or nonsensical ideas) that God exists? Don't say "The Bible tells me so," or "Yes, because He has moved me." I want cold, hard evidence of God. If you expect our counter-proof to stand up to scientific scrutiny, I expect nothing less from your proof.

I too don't think that religion should ever be an excuse for doing bad things. Religion should only be for the betterment of people, not harm. I have my personal convictions and I won't try to force them upon people, but I have gained, what I consider, strong evidence. Its not tangible evidence, but it is personal evidence. I don't expect people to rely on or believe my personal conviction, but to me it is evident enough. I don't think that religion has hindered science at all. I believe that the two subjects totally coincide (when properly understood), but again, I don't expect others to believe the same just because I do.

I can see you are obviously a very devoted Christian, and believe it or not I respect that. The one thing I take issue with is this:

faazshift wrote:...but I have gained, what I consider, strong evidence. Its not tangible evidence, but it is personal evidence.

I hear this from many Christians. "It's a personal experience" or "God touched me in ways I never thought possible" or some variation. Almost immediately following (or preceding) that comment is something along the lines of what you asked earlier: "Do you have any scientific proof that God does not exist?"

Read that again.

"Do you have any scientific proof that God does not exist?"

Many Christians will demand that in order to disprove the existence of God, an Atheist must provide tons and tons of scientifically accurate information. This information must be presented in a flawless manner, lest it be scrutinized for the slightest imperfection. It must have sources cited, and will be examined from all angles regardless of its authenticity.

It addition, it has never been the goal of the scientific method to disprove anything, since doing so is statistically near impossible. We can prove there are rainbows on Earth, but we cannot disprove acrylic leprechauns in deep space. As such, asking us to disprove God is a low-ball request in the first place.

On the other hand, all a Christian must say to "prove" God's existence is "Well I believe in Him, so He exists." All it takes is faith, "personal evidence" as you called it, and not proof.

Now, you might have heard about science "proving" God. This is incorrect. For example, Ray Comfort, a very popular Christian "advocate," if you will, honestly tried to use the Atheist's Nightmare (vid) as scientific proof of the existence of God. Scientific proof. You cannot scientifically prove God any more than you can scientifically disprove Him. All that video proves is that people domesticated the banana to be that way. Google it.

In the end, it is really very hypocritical to demand scientific evidence to the contrary, when there is none supporting your (impersonal) claim.

I would think the reason christians would ask for scientific evidence that God does not exists is because christian opponents are constantly hammering them with 'can you prove that God exists?' I have gained my 'proof' and cannot deny it. Because its not tangible, it can't be mass publicized and convert everyone. I believe that God intends for people to be converted by faith, not by evidence (as this wouldn't really convert them). Nonetheless, you are demanding cold, hard evidence, so I don't think you will ever be satisfied. As such, I think arguing about it does little good.

I'm fed up with this "religion vs. science" argument. In my opinion, both sides are false.Those who are believers of science, deny everything which doesn't fint into their tiny little logical world of theirs, and they deny that modern science (quantum phisics, chaos theory, general relativity theory) have long been accepted that everything is energy, and the main component which holds together the universe is thought. They think they are intelligent... but they are only ignorant.And those who are the believers of God, deny everything what is logical. They are zealots, who think that everyone, who doesn't believe in their God-portrait, is stupid. They hate religious people of other cultures even more! They don't realize, that every religion is based on the same principles. They think that they are wise... but they are only ignorant.In the ancient days, people were not influenced by this idiot world of ours. They were both intelligent and wise. Back then, science, religion and art was the same. And they are the same, but people nowadays don't realize that.

If only we could uphold the values which you have created, the values which state that those who deny science to the praise of a god are ignorant and that those who endeavour in the field of science are also ignorant.

"you're all just ignorant, people are ignorant and they spread rumours about you that you're dead. I'm a child weeeeee."Wait that's MJ.nvm

I'm sick of ignorant people coming on this thread saying that people who believe in God are not logical. I believe that faith and logic can both be practiced. You can't mix faith and logic such as trying to use logic and math to prove that God exists, but as long as the people have their legit reasons for their faith and philosophy etcs. People who only believe in Science is fine though they're most likely in search of a grand unified theory to explain the universe such as einstein. Here's a list of scientist who believed and their work was for God1) Isaac Newton - Father of Physics, Creator of fundamental Theorem of Calculus 2) Albert Einstein - Special/General Theory of Relativity3) Robert Boyle - Father of Quantum Physics

And for those who come on the thread saying that "people who believe in God and/or Science are ignorant", are ignorant of their own ignorance. If it weren't for God or Science today we wouldn't have shit including GPS, so fuck off!

I didn't say that everyone, who believes in god, or believes in science, is ignorant. If you would have read my thread thoughtfully, you wouldn't have misunderstood it. I was just saying, that one should find the golden middleway between science and religion. But in case you didn't notice, the argument above is the battle of pure science, and pure religion.