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Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

Revelation 18:4 (NASB)I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;

This is nothing short than a command from heaven itself. Who is the target of this command. Revelation chapter 17 and 18 provides many clues. The key clue is determining who is the "her" in Revelation 18:4.

Revelation 17:18 (NASB)18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

This may be the best identifying verse. The book of Revelation refers to the "her" as a "great city."

Revelation 18:10, 16, 18, 19, and 21 all refer to "her" as a city. That is six very clear identifying clues that point that the "her" is a city, and a great city at that. The Greek word used from the oldest manuscripts is "polis". In English the word "metropolis" is derived from this Greek word. Metropolis is a very good term to describe this city.

Back up in Revelation 17:18 is another very unique and identifying clue. It says that this " great city" will "reign over the kings of the earth." Let's think about this for a moment or two. We have a great city that reigns over the kings of the earth. The NIV uses the word "rules" in place of "reign". Either way this is an amazing declaration. How can a single city have the power to reign or rule the kings of the earth? When looking at the history of the world, this is not a usual condition. Rome may be the greatest ancient example, but even that great city's empire could not claim rulership over the "kings of the earth." There were many other kings of the earth at the time of Rome's greatest expansion that were not under Roman rule, whether they be Germanic kings, or Parthian rulers, or many others.

Revelation 17:18 (NIV)18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

This "reign over the kings of the earth" clue alludes to a global rulership. For the Apostle John in the first century AD this is more than an amazing concept. During John's time this would have been impossible. In the history of the earth, there have only been two governments that had global authority over the other kings or nations of the earth. The first was the League of Nations with its headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. Created after the end of World War I, it was dissolved after World War II . The second is the United Nation headquartered in New York City (1952). Geneva does not fulfill the prophecy. But what about New York City? Could the "her' from Revelation 18:4 be New York City? It does contain a government that makes rulings over the the other government of the earth. And this government is unique in that it is not a part of a nation, but is a collection of nations headquartered in a single great city.

One may say that the United Nation is ineffective and would not be a good fit. But the prophecy does not indicate anything about the quality of "her" rule. It just says that she will rule. The United Nations makes regular resolutions or rulings that govern the action of the nations of the earth from rules governing trade on the high seas, to peace keeping missions in the world's hot spots, to combating hunger and disease, and much more. I would agree that many of these endeavors are fruitless, but alas that determination is not a part of the prophecy. And the prophecy is more pointed toward the city than the government within her.

The ramification that New York City is the "her" in Revelation 18:4 is simply amazing. Could the book of Revelation, written in the first century AD, be referring to a city that would not even be settled until 1624AD, over 1500 years later? This is a miracle in and of itself. For the believer though, this should not be a difficult concept. But for the unbeliever this could potentially be life changing.

There are many clues in Revelation 17 and 18 concerning this "great city." But more on that in later post.

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

Originally Posted by gavriel

Revelation 18:4 (NASB)I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;

This is nothing short than a command from heaven itself. Who is the target of this command. Revelation chapter 17 and 18 provides many clues. The key clue is determining who is the "her" in Revelation 18:4.

Revelation 17:18 (NASB)18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

This may be the best identifying verse. The book of Revelation refers to the "her" as a "great city."

Revelation 18:10, 16, 18, 19, and 21 all refer to "her" as a city. That is six very clear identifying clues that point that the "her" is a city, and a great city at that. The Greek word used from the oldest manuscripts is "polis". In English the word "metropolis" is derived from this Greek word. Metropolis is a very good term to describe this city.

Back up in Revelation 17:18 is another very unique and identifying clue. It says that this " great city" will "reign over the kings of the earth." Let's think about this for a moment or two. We have a great city that reigns over the kings of the earth. The NIV uses the word "rules" in place of "reign". Either way this is an amazing declaration. How can a single city have the power to reign or rule the kings of the earth? When looking at the history of the world, this is not a usual condition. Rome may be the greatest ancient example, but even that great city's empire could not claim rulership over the "kings of the earth." There were many other kings of the earth at the time of Rome's greatest expansion that were not under Roman rule, whether they be Germanic kings, or Parthian rulers, or many others.

Revelation 17:18 (NIV)18 [FONT="]The woman you saw is the great city[/FONT] that rules over the kings of the earth.”

This "reign over the kings of the earth" clue alludes to a global rulership. For the Apostle John in the first century AD this is more than an amazing concept. During John's time this would have been impossible. In the history of the earth, there have only been two governments that had global authority over the other kings or nations of the earth. The first was the League of Nations with its headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. Created after the end of World War I, it was dissolved after World War II . The second is the United Nation headquartered in New York City (1952). Geneva does not fulfill the prophecy. But what about New York City? Could the "her' from Revelation 18:4 be New York City? It does contain a government that makes rulings over the the other government of the earth. And this government is unique in that it is not a part of a nation, but is a collection of nations headquartered in a single great city.

One may say that the United Nation is ineffective and would not be a good fit. But the prophecy does not indicate anything about the quality of "her" rule. It just says that she will rule. The United Nations makes regular resolutions or rulings that govern the action of the nations of the earth from rules governing trade on the high seas, to peace keeping missions in the world's hot spots, to combating hunger and disease, and much more. I would agree that many of these endeavors are fruitless, but alas that determination is not a part of the prophecy. And the prophecy is more pointed toward the city than the government within her.

The ramification that New York City is the "her" in Revelation 18:4 is simply amazing. Could the book of Revelation, written in the first century AD, be referring to a city that would not even be settled until 1624AD, over 1500 years later? This is a miracle in and of itself. For the believer though, this should not be a difficult concept. But for the unbeliever this could potentially be life changing.

There are many clues in Revelation 17 and 18 concerning this "great city." But more on that in later post.

[I believe these are all references to "future" events, pertaining to "Israel"]

I always like to determine who does it mean (in any given context) by "My people"

Good point. Jeremiah 50 also speaks of "My people" in regard to the same topic:

Jer 50:4 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.
Jer 50:5 They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.
Jer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
Jer 50:7 All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.
Jer 50:8 Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks.

It is clear who in meant by "My people. "On the mountains", they were turned away from God and towards the idols worshiped there.

[I believe these are all references to "future" events, pertaining to "Israel"]

Who are 'My people'?
The New Testament makes that perfectly clear: But you [Christians] are a chosen race, a dedicated nation, a people claimed by God for His own, to proclaim the glorious deeds of His who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light. Once you were not a people at all, but now you are God's people. Once you were outside His mercy, but now you are outside no longer. 1 Peter 2:9-10

This scripture puts to rest any belief that ethnic Israel has any part in future events, except as a remnant of faithful believers that will join with their Christian brethren.
DW, you say Romans 9:25-26, is about two different peoples? v 25 about Gentiles and v 26 about the Jews? But that interpretation cannot be correct, as Paul has just said in v24, that WE Christians are the recipients of God's mercy, called from Jew and Gentile alike. Then he says in v27 that of Israel, the Jews; only a remnant will be saved.
How come it is so difficult for people today to comprehend that since Jesus came Salvation is open to all who will receive it. Those that do are God's people, those that refuse and reject the Gospel are the godless people.

Verity, although the Old Testament does have many specific prophesies to Judah and Israel, [note the careful differentiation] they lost the Kingdom because of their sins and are superseded by the Gospel of Jesus, as I quote in 1 Peter 2:9-10 Every faithful Christian, all who walk in the Way of Jesus, are the true Israel of God. Galatians 6:16 And we inherit the Promises of God to His people. Ephesians 1:11-14, 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, +

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

When one compares Romans 9:26 with Hosea 1:10-11, it becomes clear just who "IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID UNTO THEM" refers to. This is not what Romans 9:25 is saying (which verse corresponds with Hosea 2:23b instead, and pertains to "the Gentiles"). The subject being covered in Romans 9-11 is "nations": "Israel [singular nation]" and "the Gentiles/nations [plural]"

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

The people of God today are every faithful Christian individual.
If you believe otherwise, you have perverted the Gospel.

DW, you convoluted explanation of Romans 9:23-27, is an attempt to maintain another people of God than Christians. This is unbiblical and contradicts the Words of Jesus in Matthew 21:43, where He stated.....the Kingdom will be given to a nation that bears the proper fruit. That nation can only be all the true born again Christian believers, from every tribe, race, nation and language. They, we; are referred to as a single nation; people group in the eyes of God.

And the time is coming when we will become a real nation on earth, as all the Lord's people, in all the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 66:7-14, Ezekiel 38:8b, Psalms 69:35-36 God will restore Zion, His people will possess it and those who serve Him and who love His Name, will live there.

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

"1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."

...he was not saying,

--"God hath not cast away 'His Church which is His body'"

--"God hath not cast away 'His born again [/from above] Christians'"

--"God hath not cast away 'His Spirit-sealed-and-indwelt Church'"

--"God hath not cast away 'His One New Man'"

--"God hath not cast away 'His espoused chaste virgin [singular]'"

--"God hath not cast away 'His Body of whom He is HEAD'"

...as none of these terms are what is under discussion in what topic Paul is addressing in Romans 11 ("Israel [singular nation]" / "Gentiles [plural nations]" [Romans 9-11 topic])

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them [Israel], when I shall take away their [Israel's] sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they [Israel] are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance / irrevocable.

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

Originally Posted by gavriel

Revelation 18:4 (NASB)I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;

This is nothing short than a command from heaven itself. Who is the target of this command. Revelation chapter 17 and 18 provides many clues. The key clue is determining who is the "her" in Revelation 18:4.

Revelation 17:18 (NASB)18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

This may be the best identifying verse. The book of Revelation refers to the "her" as a "great city."

Revelation 18:10, 16, 18, 19, and 21 all refer to "her" as a city. That is six very clear identifying clues that point that the "her" is a city, and a great city at that. The Greek word used from the oldest manuscripts is "polis". In English the word "metropolis" is derived from this Greek word. Metropolis is a very good term to describe this city.

Back up in Revelation 17:18 is another very unique and identifying clue. It says that this " great city" will "reign over the kings of the earth." Let's think about this for a moment or two. We have a great city that reigns over the kings of the earth. The NIV uses the word "rules" in place of "reign". Either way this is an amazing declaration. How can a single city have the power to reign or rule the kings of the earth? When looking at the history of the world, this is not a usual condition. Rome may be the greatest ancient example, but even that great city's empire could not claim rulership over the "kings of the earth." There were many other kings of the earth at the time of Rome's greatest expansion that were not under Roman rule, whether they be Germanic kings, or Parthian rulers, or many others.

Revelation 17:18 (NIV)18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

This "reign over the kings of the earth" clue alludes to a global rulership. For the Apostle John in the first century AD this is more than an amazing concept. During John's time this would have been impossible. In the history of the earth, there have only been two governments that had global authority over the other kings or nations of the earth. The first was the League of Nations with its headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. Created after the end of World War I, it was dissolved after World War II . The second is the United Nation headquartered in New York City (1952). Geneva does not fulfill the prophecy. But what about New York City? Could the "her' from Revelation 18:4 be New York City? It does contain a government that makes rulings over the the other government of the earth. And this government is unique in that it is not a part of a nation, but is a collection of nations headquartered in a single great city.

One may say that the United Nation is ineffective and would not be a good fit. But the prophecy does not indicate anything about the quality of "her" rule. It just says that she will rule. The United Nations makes regular resolutions or rulings that govern the action of the nations of the earth from rules governing trade on the high seas, to peace keeping missions in the world's hot spots, to combating hunger and disease, and much more. I would agree that many of these endeavors are fruitless, but alas that determination is not a part of the prophecy. And the prophecy is more pointed toward the city than the government within her.

The ramification that New York City is the "her" in Revelation 18:4 is simply amazing. Could the book of Revelation, written in the first century AD, be referring to a city that would not even be settled until 1624AD, over 1500 years later? This is a miracle in and of itself. For the believer though, this should not be a difficult concept. But for the unbeliever this could potentially be life changing.

There are many clues in Revelation 17 and 18 concerning this "great city." But more on that in later post.

Shalom

I believe it was God calling the Jewish saints out of Jerusalem when the first Roman army retreated from seiging the city in 66AD. The Christians heeded Jesus' warning from the Olivet Discourse and fled the city and thus were saved

Again, as I mentioned in the original post, the scripture refers to the woman as a "great city." Six times the scriptures refer to the "her" or "woman" as a city. Should we not accept how the scriptures identify the "her" or "woman"?

There is a great misconception that the woman and the beast are some how united. It is understandable in light of the imagery.

Revelation 17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

But the scriptures revealed the mystery.

Revelation 17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

From this point on it ceases to be imagery and the mystery is revealed. One of the revealed scriptures is a very clear verse that communicates the relationship between the woman and beast.

Revelation 17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.

The scriptures clearly say that the beast "will hate the harlot". This changes the concept that the woman and beast are somehow together. Instead the imagery is more like a rider (woman) riding a horse (beast). The woman has some level of authority over the beast like a rider has some level of authority over a horse.

Now I have not previously gone into the identity of the beast. But this mystery has been revealed too. I will do a brief outline here:

Revelation 17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9 Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 11 The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

Israel is the key to understanding prophecy. When the Apostle John wrote the book of Revelation five great empires had come up against Israel and were no more, (Egyptians, Assyrians, Neo-Babylonians, Persians, and Greeks.) The empire in control during the Apostle John's time was of course Rome. And then the prophecy talks about one to come, and that one must remain for a little while.
When we study the history of the world we know that in the 7th century AD Muslims took the region, including the lands of Israel, from the Byzantine Romans. They have ruled the region ever since including places like the Gaza Strip and West Bank even today. The current iteration of the beast are the Muslims.

Now let's look at our current situation. Do you think the Muslims have a love for the United States and Israel? What happened on 9-11-2001? Who were the hijackers on the planes? Do you think they did what they did because they loved New York City and the United States?

Originally Posted by Revelation Man

The GREAT CITY was a clue. On her forehead was a TATTOO.......Babylon the Great, one of her four descriptions.

P.S. My people is Israel. Its the 144,000 and the Woman.

This is a response to all the post about"my people."

My people are the Jews and the Christians that have been grafted in. New York City has the second largest Jewish population of any city in the world. Only Tel Aviv has a larger Jewish population. The Jews in New York City should be making Aliyah anyway. That is for Jewish peoples to move to the land of Israel from the Diaspora (outside Israel). Many have chosen not to do it. But heaven has commanded otherwise.

Israel is a nation. It is not a city. It truly does not contain a government that rules the kings of the earth. Israel is not the woman. With the United Nations, New York City has a world ruling government. New York City fulfills the prophecy concerning the woman, and it does so in every way possible.

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

There is no scriptural reason why the city "Babylon the Great" is any other city than Babylon itself.
We are given her name and the mystery surrounding her.

Here is some OT prophecy concerning the literal city of Babylon. There are many similarities with Rev 17,18.

Isaian 47:
Isa 47:1* Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate...Isa 47:5* Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms.

Isa 47:9* But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments.*
Isa 47:10* For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me.*
Isa 47:11* Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.*
Isa 47:12* Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.*
Isa 47:13* Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.*
Isa 47:14* Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.*
Isa 47:15* Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee.*

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by verity

There is no scriptural reason why the city "Babylon the Great" is any other city than Babylon itself.

The Whore

The bible has spoken mainly of one such city as a whore, Jerusalem. This alone would be enough evidence to see that Babylon is counterfeiting the city called by God's name. Chapters which relate Jerusalem to being a WHORE.

Re 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,

Jerusalem

Re 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones.
Re 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls:

In addition....

Rev. 17:16 - We see lovers will strip her, this is seen happening to Jerusalem in EZ 16:37.

Rev. 18: 4 - In addition, God called for “MY PEOPLE” to come out of this city and not be partakers of her sins. This reference is to those you will keep the commandments his people Israel.

Rev. 18:6 – This woman is rewarded double for her iniquity. This “double” punishment is seen to Jerusalem in Isaiah 4:2 and Jer. 16:18, 17:18.

Rev. 18:7 - She denies that she is a whore and a widow, Jerusalem is described as a widow in Lam 1:1.

Rev. 18:22, 23 – We see that the LIGHT OF A CANDLE and the VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM and SOUNDS OF MILLSTONES shall be heard no more out from this city. This event is seen occurring to Jerusalem in Jer. 7:34, 16:9, 25:10, 33:11.

Re: Come Out of Her My People (Rev. 18:4)

Originally Posted by gavriel

Revelation 18:4 (NASB)I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;

This is nothing short than a command from heaven itself. Who is the target of this command. Revelation chapter 17 and 18 provides many clues. The key clue is determining who is the "her" in Revelation 18:4.

Revelation 17:18 (NASB)18 [B]The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

Rev 17:18 is written in the present tense when Rome was ruling over all the kings of the land (the Greek word "ge"means land not earth)
Rome traditonally used purple and scarlet robes and now in the vatican even more so (the robes of cardinals and bishops)
Rome in the past and present used golden cups in ceremonies
Rome traditionally ruled western Europe and parts of the Meditteranean. This is an area of vast trade currently expressed through the EU.

My people come out of her, can mean three things:
1) Christians and Christian countries (like England) try and remove yourself from the EU and the vatican influence in Europe.
2) Christians in history remove yourself from the persecution of the Catholic church, emigrate and settle elsewhere (Quakers/Puritans/Huguenots etc)
3) Christians leave the influence of Rome, if you are a true Christian rather worship in other churches than the RCI.