Michael On Television

De-Dollarization: Russia Is On The Verge Of Dealing A Massive Blow To The Petrodollar

By Michael Snyder, on May 13th, 2014

Is the petrodollar monopoly about to be shattered? When U.S. politicians started slapping economic sanctions on Russia, they probably never even imagined that there might be serious consequences for the United States. But now the Russian media is reporting that the Russian Ministry of Finance is getting ready to pull the trigger on a “de-dollarization” plan. For decades, virtually all oil and natural gas around the world has been bought and sold for U.S. dollars. As I will explain below, this has been a massive advantage for the U.S. economy. In recent years, there have been rumblings by nations such as Russia and China about the need to change to a new system, but nobody has really had a big reason to upset the status quo. However, that has now changed. The struggle over Ukraine has caused Russia to completely reevaluate the financial relationship that it has with the United States. If it starts trading a lot of oil and natural gas for currencies other than the U.S. dollar, that will be a massive blow for the petrodollar, and it could end up dramatically changing the global economic landscape.

The fact that the Russian government has held a meeting to discuss “getting rid of the US dollar in Russian export operations” should be front page news on every mainstream news website in the United States. That is how big this is. But instead, we have heard nothing from the big mainstream news networks about this so far. Instead, we have only heard about this from Russian news sources such as the Voice of Russia…

Russian press reports that the country’s Ministry of Finance is ready to greenlight a plan to radically increase the role of the Russian ruble in export operations while reducing the share of dollar-denominated transactions. Governmental sources believe that the Russian banking sector is “ready to handle the increased number of ruble-denominated transactions”.

According to the Prime news agency, on April 24th the government organized a special meeting dedicated to finding a solution for getting rid of the US dollar in Russian export operations. Top level experts from the energy sector, banks and governmental agencies were summoned and a number of measures were proposed as a response for American sanctions against Russia.

The “de-dollarization meeting” was chaired by First Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Igor Shuvalov, proving that Moscow is very serious in its intention to stop using the dollar.

So will Russia go through with this?

After all, this wouldn’t just be a slap in the face. This would essentially be like slamming an economic fist into our nose.

You see, Russia is not just a small player when it comes to trading oil and natural gas. The truth is that Russia is the largest exporter of natural gas and the second largest exporter of oil in the world.

If Russia starts asking for payment in currencies other than the U.S. dollar, that will essentially end the monopoly of the petrodollar.

In order to do this, Russia will need trading partners willing to go along. In the article quoted above, the Voice of Russia listed Iran and China as two nations that would potentially be willing to make the switch…

Of course, the success of Moscow’s campaign to switch its trading to rubles or other regional currencies will depend on the willingness of its trading partners to get rid of the dollar. Sources cited by Politonline.ru mentioned two countries who would be willing to support Russia: Iran and China. Given that Vladimir Putin will visit Beijing on May 20, it can be speculated that the gas and oil contracts that are going to be signed between Russia and China will be denominated in rubles and yuan, not dollars.

And the reality of the matter is that China has seemed ready to move away from the U.S. dollar for quite some time. In a previous article, I included a quote from a French news source that discussed how China’s official news agency has even called for a “new international reserve currency… to replace the dominant US dollar”…

For decades the US has benefited to the tune of trillions of dollars-worth of free credit from the greenback’s role as the default global reserve unit.

But as the global economy trembled before the prospect of a US default last month, only averted when Washington reached a deal to raise its debt ceiling, China’s official Xinhua news agency called for a “de-Americanised” world.

It also urged the creation of a “new international reserve currency… to replace the dominant US dollar”.

Well, it creates a tremendous amount of demand for the U.S. dollar all over the globe. Since everyone has needed it to trade with one another, that has created an endless global appetite for the currency. That has kept the value of the dollar artificially high, and it has enabled us to import trillions of dollars of super cheap products from other countries. If other nations stopped using the dollar to trade with one another, the value of the dollar would plummet dramatically and we would have to pay much, much more for the trinkets that we buy at the dollar store and Wal-Mart.

In addition, since the U.S. dollar is essentially the de facto global currency, this has also increased demand for our debt. Major exporting nations such as China and Saudi Arabia end up with giant piles of our dollars. Instead of just letting them sit there and do nothing, those nations often reinvest their dollars into securities that can rapidly be changed back into dollars if needed. One of the most popular ways to do this has been to invest those dollars in U.S. Treasuries. This has driven down interest rates on U.S. debt over the years and has enabled the U.S. government to borrow trillions upon trillions of dollars for next to nothing.

But if the rest of the world starts moving away from the U.S. dollar, all of this could change.

In order for our current standard of living to continue, it is absolutely imperative that everyone else around the globe continues to use our currency.

So if Russia really does pull the trigger on a “de-dollarization” strategy, that would be huge – especially if the rest of the planet started following their lead.

BRICS has 80 other nations that are wanting to get off the USD. Thats 65% of Global Trade.

Ive been thinking of opening a Forex account and betting against the USD for a while…but Im thinking that might still be risky since everything is rigged.

MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

Yes, the Forex market is heavily manipulated and you can lose a lot of money in it if you aren’t very, very careful.

Michael

Jimbo

Gold is a very good currency hedge. If the Dollar devalues, the number of Dollars needed to buy an ounce goes up. Not just Gold or PM’s either. Any tangible asset.

alan

I’ve been buying sliver myself. If there is a sudden collapse then its value becomes whatever you can trade it for. A slow collapse and you will be drained before the end.

Adam Weisshaupt

Problem with silver is its an industrial metal. Demand will fall when the depression hits, and its unclear what the value will be after. It will be worth something, however, vs the green paper. Gold (especially in bullion form) may be outlawed and you will only get to use it black market– which will lower what its real value becomes. even if its outlawed- Get gold chain. Individual links can be sold, and in Argentina, the junk gold price was what was paid (purity didn’t matter) .. and even FDR didn’t try to confiscate “jewelry.”

Eric Quintero

I think silver will maintain value regardless of industrial use. Its been in the No. 2 spot for a few thousand years now.

Malcolm Reynolds

“Problem with silver…”
Uhh no. Silver has the advantage of being a PM in the first place and used WIDELY thru technology in the second, which assures it’s demand.
Commerce and technology are not coming to a grinding halt just because of a depression.

K

The question is will Putin pull the trigger.Can anyone come up with a reason, why he wouldn’t. If he backs off, China might pull the trigger without him. So the problem I see is, he has nothing to lose by pulling the trigger. Worse than that, he has nothing to gain by not pulling the trigger.

alan

I think timing will be everything. It won’t take much to send our banks rolling over. Maybe something like with fighting in Ukraine, Syria, maybe another country or two, then North Korea does something stupid, or Israel to go after Iran, then pull the plug. Whatever the cause there will need to be something to blame it on other than the bankers, that is for certain.

old fart

Oh well it is time for a vacation and a few rounds of golf, Spoke the prez. He is no match for Putin.

Syrin

He’s no match for an umbrella without help from a secret service agent. Dark, dark days lie ahead. He has sold this country out to foreign interests. Russian and Chinese troops are already here on US soil.

Randome-11

Did he sell Kenya too?

Kp24

Still no proof of that…..I’ve asked Dave hodges and Steve Quayle the 2 that keep pushing it, and no one will provide any proof, not even a single photo to back this up…..your a sheep for believing this incredible troop lie…..

Allergic to trolls

Troll alert! Don’t feed the troll, folks!

Travis Devereux

of course theres no proof its a military operation. if there are a limited amount of Chinese and Russian troops operating on american land. There was a report in februrayr or march about chinese training on hawaii check it out. Also i believe Russia took part in some DHS drill earlier this year too. No soldiers from the frontlines, just tactical and operational bystanders.

djdog

You really should have another drink of that kool aid…. If you don’t want to open your eyes and do your own research then that is your failure. Dave Hodges has posted photos and articles backing up his claim… you are a true government shill and shame on you…

Slebo75

Yep… this is a well orchestrated plan being executed by the elite. You think it was a coincidence that the FED just happen to pump 85 billion a month out of thin or for nothing. They knew damn well they were going to have their counter parts dump the dollar. What is one to do with all that green back with no one to buy or use it.

Maneb

Didn’t the PRES look into Putin’s eyes and see his soul?

none

Good news old fart:
Without Obamas phone and pen. He could not have offended the Russians any more!
This way he has ben able to force them into doing this, against their will. A few years sooner.
.
The brilliant part is that now the Chinese will not be able to buy up as many of our assets with worthless dollars.

Gary

And think about it, GE has All of its manufacturing plants in where? CHINA, this regime has successfully shoved almost all of our manufacturing out of this country! Using the EPA, IRS and all the other America destroying agencies! I hope all these liberal fools suffer first and suffer the most when the fit hits the shan!

american dept machine

$1.50 an hour is what shoved manufacturing out the door.unless you’re willing to work for $200 A MONTH,
or stop buyin chinese crap,the only the American gonna produce is dept,piles and piles and piles of it

Syrin

Sounds good, but everything is made in CHina, and CHina literally owns 98% of the world’s rare earth mineral mines. Our military tech depends on this elements to function, so if/when we get into a war with CHina, our military will be rendered useless in fairly short order.

Jimbo

It has pretty much been proven that the USA can’t win a conventional war anyway. Sure the USA can go in all guns blazing and remove a leadership like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan but they just end up creating a bigger mess than the one they hoped to clear up. USA v China will never be conventional. I doubt it would be nuclear either. My guess would be genetically targeted chemical or virus warfare. Anyway, the puppet masters who control the money don’t care if China fares better than the USA economically just as long as they are getting their cut. Why would the big money want the USA to attack China when all it would achieve is to damage their investments there?

CharlesH

Any war with China would be a cyber-war. To that end, I believe China would have the upper hand.

CensoredSpeech

The military is perfectly capable of crushing any opponent. The political leadership is a disaster, with their lawyers and rules of engagement.

Gay Veteran

how about NO foreign entaglments as George Washington recommended. We can do without the bloated Pentagon

CensoredSpeech

That, I agree with.

GaryVeteran3

So the answer is easy, do what the Japanese did with Pearl Harbor and Nanjing, this time it will work!

The Chinese governement is evil because it refuse to just tax and send Chinese wealth to bail out the needy and dependent on the other side of the Pacific and Eurasian continent… If they can´t be made to redistribute their wealth, over 60 years of Progress and Social Justice, the right to governement dependency will be lost!

Share the wealth… whever you like it or not!

Michael

Leviticus 18:22

Gay Veteran

don’t eat those shellfish either, or the pork

Michael

I believe we already had this discussion before, or did you forget that already,

Romans 14:1-9

King James Version (KJV)

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

1 Corinthians 10:31

King James Version (KJV)

31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

you point out the Old Testament, but you must have forgotten Jesus was resurrected and there is a New Testament.

Gay Veteran

good parrot, Polly want a cracker?

Michael

How juvenile your response was, this is a mans argument, grow and and wake up hell is forever, your own testimony by your disgusting name that you choose to sport.

Poopyface McGee

What is disgusting about his name? A judgmental bigot eh? Though shall not judge? What makes you so righteous? Projecting your hatred in the name of your diety.

Michael

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

for instruction in righteousness,

what disgusting about his name is he is running around promoting his homosexual agenda that is what is disgusting,

projecting my hatred, listen up, Jesus called homosexuals and abomination in the Old Testament, and lets not forget Romans chapter one when he re addresses homosexuality again and its perversion, and if you take part of agree with the sin you are just as guilty read the last verse in Romans chapter 1.

A bigot you call me, well I will have to agree that I am a bigot I stick to The Word of God, that makes me a bigot and I am proud of it,

I judged know one because I can not, I am not a judge in the flesh or in the spirit, what telling someone about The Word of God and the condemnation of homosexuality makes me a judge, me and everyone in this world alive and dead will be judge by Gods Word, so shewing The Word to someone does not make me a judge,

if you agree with the disgusting sin and you call yourself a Christian be careful because you must have skipped Romans Chapter 1,

Romans 1:20-32

King James Version (KJV)

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

read verses 26 and 27 carefully, and see what you are doing in verse 32.

A_DAB_will_do

Don’t panic over rare earth elements. The name is a mis nomer, they’re actually pretty common. There are deposits of them in the continental USA. Mining those deposits was halted because it was cheaper to import those materials. But when the price rises they will be returned to active use. Couple that with the fact that automotive catalytic converters contain large quantities of these mateirals and you have a ready source to recycle and reclaim them in an emergency. The price may rise on so called rare earth elements, but we can’t be held hostage over them.

Just tell me how one can stop buying from China, WHEN EVERYTHING IS MADE THERE!

Gay Veteran

get a freacking clue, the corporations went to China for 2 reasons: (1) slave labor wages, (2) NO environmental regulations

Gary

You are a mucking foron! The government over regulation, by your f..king idiot environmentalists going so far overboard, IS the reason everything is made in China! Dam where do you mental midgets come from?

Gay Veteran

mental midget? look into a mirror.

from a Google search of “labor arbitrage”:

“Global labor arbitrage is an economic phenomenon where, as a result of the removal of or disintegration of barriers to international trade, jobs move to nations where labor and the cost of doing business (such as environmental regulations)….[are lower]”

Ken Griffith

You guys are both saying the same thing.

David Hammond

hehe

Sarastro92

Gay Vet… I think you’re right on the facts… Now China is in a very strong position… The US has little productive capacity… If push came to shove and the petro-dollar were crashed, the US would be stranded for years…

StephanLarose

Liberals mostly tried to stop China from receiving most favored nation trading status and tried to stop the “free” trade agreements that allowed US investors/execs to move all our middle class jobs to countries where they could brutally exploit people–Conservatives were all about it, the more outsourcing, the more cheap/slave labour the better. The blame for gutting the Western economy lies squarely at the feet of conservatives and the richest 1% who decided that gutting the US economy and destroying the US consumer would be worth a short term bump in profit margins. Sending jobs to China has nothing to do with the EPA dummy, the EPA is the reason you breathe clean air, not AQI 500 ultra polluted air like they do in Beijing. Grow a brain!

Joseph7

If it wasn’t for the epa you would have anti freeze going into the lakes and rivers, and other chemical wastes as well.Dust and debris which are deadly going up into the air and all this is going on in China right now because they have no epa. You should have seen the pollution back in the 60’s.You also wouldn’t have the right to know act which tells employees about the possible health hazards of chemicals they use.Why did our jobs go over seas?Unions?no.It was due to the fact that the owners and managers wanted MORE profit for themselves and would not have to pay decent wages to 3rd world citizens.A lot of non union jobs left as well.

The watcher

and you have plutonium coming at you from Japan, and eating Mansanto poison.LOL

PK

Do you think China will do something to dramatically change our economy? Who will buy all their junk if we can no longer afford it?

Those great debts really knock me out
They kick the West’s behind
Angela’s blubbery cellulite is hanging out
That EU troika is always on my, my, my, mind

Take me to the Carpathian mountains way down South
Let me foreclose your daddy’s farm
All the way the bankers’ hands are reaching out
Come and grease your comrade’s palm

I’m back in the EUSSR
You don’t know how lucky you are… boy

Back in the EU
Back in the EU
Back in the EUSSR

Adam Weisshaupt

Yeah, and Europe is already imploding under its own debt, and would be gone already if it weren’t for the dollar swaps with central European banks. The whole thing is on life support.

Syrin

China has been importing tons, literally tons, of gold for years now
and mining more tons of gold. Once that gold is in China’s hands, it
disappears from the market like it never existed which means the gov’t
is stockpiling it immensely. I have speculated for years that this
means China foresees an alternate international currency backed by gold
which means their current stockpile would increase in value perhaps 50
fold over what they bought it for which is why gold prices have been
manipulated downward for years so China could buy it at firesale prices.

Now
this gets conspiratorial, but I have read this too many places from
people who seemed nuts at first but turned out to be 100% accurate.
There are people who claim that the US has promised China all our
mineral rights in exchange for debt forgiveness. China is also in
process of buying the Federal Reserve banks, that part is indisputable.
Cliven Bundy’s ranch has an abundance of mineral wealth and would have
been taken over to be given to Harry Reid, GARY’S hero, who would
have created a wind farm to be given to China. He would make millions
off it as would his son. Chinese troops were spotted on Cliven Bundy’s
ranch. Literally, hours after drudge broke the China link the troops
backed down. Our gov’t is right now in the process of selling us off
to foreign interests, and they will use violence to make us comply.
Furthermore, once the Chinese own the Federal Reserve banks, they can
de-peg the yuan and decimate the dollar overnight. They could
literally make everything cost 6 times what they are now so a $100,000
mortgage turns into a $600,000 mortgage owed to the now Chinese banks.
The DHS will force compliance. If you can’t pay, they take over
“your” property. Frankly, it’s brilliant because it would be a
“non-violent” take over of America, and the parasite class who kept
voting for freebies would now be handed a bill directly from China.
That is the bare bones with tons of detail left out, but we live in
historic times for all the wrong reasons.

jaded

That is so d*mn scary, and that fact it could be true… oh man.

SEKPrepper

Another thing to consider. The Fed is keeping the price of gold down. Why? With China buying it up at record quantities, this low price allows them to really enjoy the windfall!! This does NOT help the US!

Mike Smithy

Excellent question. I can only assume that the the Central Bankers will do anything to legitimize their fiat currency as well as extend and pretend that the global macro economy is doing just fine. Enriching China by manipulating PM’s lower is an unintended consequence of the manufactured illusion.

Adam Weisshaupt

We can only buy their junk because THEY give us the money to do it by buying Treasuries. They are loaning us money so we can buy their junk, and the loans won’t be paid back. So how is that a good situation for them they want to continue? If the dollar is destroyed they have a very good chance of becoming the world reserve currency, and that is a huge asset. Much larger than loosing our trade ( which is doomed anyway)

Drud

It seems to me that many people here and on other similar sites give the Elites, the PTB, the Deep State, whatever you call them, WAY too much credit. They are cunning and clever, but certainly no all-knowing, they are powerful, but certainly not super-human. In fact, they are VERY human. They are addicts, slaves to their addiction (and to their own massive egos), living in a dreamworld where they believe wholly in the illusion of control. The PTB are very powerful and very dangerous, and if they become desperate they may topple the whole chessboard (read: nuclear war) over like a spoiled child, BUT they have no more ability to predict the future than the gambling addict sure he can guess the score of next years SuperBowl.

RICHARD

I believe if we lose the petro dollar that will lead us to war.

Diamond_Jim

The THREAT of losing the petro-dollar has has already lead us to war. Libya, Iraq, Syria…Ukraine next.

Rainwaterrunningdog

Watch Saudi Arabia, when they say the oil transactions will be sold in other currencies like the rubles and Yuan including US, well that’s when the party is truly over with. Keep an eye on Saudi Arabia!

cannuck21

I suspect that you are correct. And here is the proof. At Yanbu on the Saudi part of the , Red Sea one of the worlds largest oil refining plans is due to open Q3 2014. It is a Saudi – China JV. I would argue that US$ will not be involved!

kfilly

I am sure the Obama administration will be involved. Hell, Comrade Obama will probably build the thing for the Chinese just like he funded oil rigs in South America while leaving a moratorium on US oil rigs.

Yahno

What is as shocking as the apathy is the fact that there are still people in America who support Obama and his regime.

Syrin

1) They are purely societal parasites. They literally contribute nothing to society and are a drain on those who do. Obama and the liberals promise them more blood from the host in exchange for votes, and it works. Look at GARY’S posts. Nothing more than incessant brainstem leveling thinking demanding you give him more of your property.

2) They are no information voters. Look up Mark Dice and watch people, all liberals, sign his petition to help create “a Naaazzzii like totalitarian state”. They WILLINGLY sign this petition. These people don’t know the number to 911, and are indoctrinated past redemption. They let Chris Matthews do their thinking for them. They have signed petitions to revoke the Bill of Rights, kill those who disagree with Obama, and so on. They get more ludicrous per video, and almost NO ONE refuses to sign. Brain dead beyond repair.

3) They will be the first to be put into regional FEMA camps, and experience what that meant to the Jews in Germany in the 1930’s

Dark days are ahead.

Jeff Steele

They are expendable useful idiots.You wonder if they will rethink their position as they are standing in front of the open pits waiting their turn to be “rewarded” via a bullet to the head.Maybe they will ask for one more sip of “Koolaid” first…

arcia

Worst case situation : Nuclear War.

since most capitalist more interested to squeeze every tiny left from current economy than fix it, they may press that red button & reset world economy back to zero. time to introduce new currency & milk all profit that they can squeeze out of it.

I’m hoping it will not happen, but dont underestimate the craziness & stupidity of our politician..

Adam Weisshaupt

You use that word “Capitalist” – I don’t think it means what you think it means. In a Capitalist country , you only trade voluntarily. Such a country has not ever really existed, and the US long ago stopped trying to get there. What you have here is crony capitalism which also goes by the moniker economic Fascism. Hitler didn’t hate unions, churches or corporations. He hated unions, churches or corporations he didn’t control via a crony.

djdog

Well, I wouldn’t go so far as to say “Worse case situation,” as a nuke war would actually clear the air and despite what the fungi think as far as their underground bunkers, it looks good on paper but once the cabin fever sets in they will be eating each other……. anyway, after it is all said and done our Lord will do what needs to be done when it ought to be done whether we like it or not and so far He is just letting us continue to play in our own misery as tragedy piles on tragedy…..

made in china

Beijing will never get on board with that, they desperately need americans buying all the cheap crap they produce.without americans spending their welfare checks at target,home depot,walmart ,jcp,sears scoffin up all that made in china garbage,who will? usa is china’s only real customer

Jimbo

The trouble is that the USA buys the crap from China with US Dollars which are IOU’s printed on fancy paper. It would be good for the USA if the Chinese just held onto these bits of paper forever, but they are not stupid. They are converting those Dollars into hard assets such as Gold, US real estate, business and farmland. If the Chinese dump the Dollar and the Dollar devalues, the hard assets will act as a hedge so the Chinese will lose nothing. Meanwhile, the Chinese are trying to move away from export led growth to consumer led growth. They may lose 320 million US customers but they have four times as many people in their own country who can buy stuff.

Adam Weisshaupt

Really, Hey will you loan me $100,000 so I can buy whatever you produce? No, I don’t have a job and I will never pay you back, but you get to show $100,000 is profit so its a win for you…..

China is caught in the same dollar death spiral as all dollar holders. You kick the can down the road, buying as much tangible stuff as you can ( rare earth mines) with the useless crap, and then at some point, you cut your losses.

durango

I’ve lost a lot of money listening to prophets of doom. I’d be about $60,000 richer if I hadn’t bought gold coins and invested in cash. I notice these doomed always seem to sell gold bars and survival supplies too. I wished I would have listened to to government.

Jimbo

Central bank interventions have allowed the markets and economies of western nations to expand as though there was nothing wrong. However, it is simply an illusion much like you would get if you took out an extra credit card so that you could continue to buy stuff when in fact you are stone broke. The trouble is with Gold, is that it is volatile to the downside and the upside and know one knows when something is going to happen to push it upwards. All you can be certain of, is that the day will come when major market corrections will happen like they did in 2008 but only worse. This is a certainty because what happened in 2008 was softened by central bank interventions, bailouts etc and those tools have been used to their full extent. When the next crash happens (it will, they always do), there will be no ammo left for central banks to use. If you haven’t sold your gold, you haven’t lost anything. Yes, you could have made more on shares over the last few years but in my opinion, that is a very dicey game to play and every day that passes where the markets don’t crash makes the next day more likely to see a crash. It will happen. There is no way it won’t happen.

durango

i guess you’re right. And I guess i have been looking forward to the crash. It is what our evil, immoral societies need to get a bit of humanity back into them.. i don’t care about my own losses. i won’t starve. i hope the Lord intervenes and speeds the crash up.

alan

The point is to hold it for emergencies not try to trade it for more federal resrve notes. You prep in general for emergencies 60k is a bit much. If there was a total collapse your gold is only worth what you can trade it for.

Matt J

I agree. I have lost money on silver too! yes,i am responsible for my decisions,of course! but enough of this ‘collapse stuff’….its always 6-9 months away or in next 2-5 years…or in next economic cycle in next decade…dollar was 100% crashing and now its “if thats what russia wants to do” . if this was gonna collapse it would have already. the same stuff gets wrtten over and over and over in different ways…they are corrupt enough to do it forever.

Adam Weisshaupt

And still things get worse each day. Bought food lately? Same prices and amounts at 10 years ago right? No? Fuel? Same story. There may not be a sudden collapse – but if there isn’t, then a long slow slide over 20 years or so into 3rd world poverty for most Americans is inevitable.

K2

You should not make investments based on them. These articles are only good for knowing long term economic trends. Not for short term economic predictions.

Adam Weisshaupt

You know, when the y2k thing was going on, I watched the price of gold to see if it would drop after.. hoping to pick up some at a bargain. Didn’t happen. You buy gold. You keep Gold. You don’t sell gold. Its not an “investment” – its insurance.

therooster

It’s also a currency …. a currency that allows debt to be purged from circulation and existence.

WVBORN56

I hear what you are saying but Revelation chapters 6 and 13 convince me along with all the other prophecy related fulfillment’s building like a crescendo that we are hurdling toward the 7 year end time great tribulation period. The only reason it seems to be in a holding pattern is the grace and mercy of God giving us more time to turn to Jesus!

davidmpark

Okay, if the US and Russia (or USSR) are willing to have a go at each other; so be it. We should never had done the petrodollar in the first place.

With this, the US can throw open all the capped oil and gas wells, approve building 20 new refineries, approve 10 new nuclear power plants, and lastly… peg the US dollar from the international petrodollar into backing by our own gas and oil production. Simultaneously moving authority of the dollar from the Fed Res back to Treasury Dept, of course. This would stabilize the dollar along with the T-bills and bonds. We can then lower gasoline prices locally and end the garbage with ethanol (cars were never meant to run ethyl alcohol anyway).

I know there’s more to it than that: politico’s screwing things up, audit the fed, $17 trillion in debts, etc, etc. But this is a start…

Jimbo

The real answer to a great deal of the worlds problems, is to stop using oil for energy. Our reliance on oil causes wars and famine and is arguably destroying our planet. Oil produced Osama Bin Laden. I work in oil and gas and I know how much money is at stake if a viable alternative to oil is found. I am pretty sure that a number of alternatives have been found but have been kept quiet.

smallergovnow

Nebbish…. You cannot replace the high density energy and transportability of oil and gas… NEVER happen…

GSOB

You go nuclear

Adam Weisshaupt

Yeah, stable liquid fuel is a huge deal.

Eric Quintero

Tesla was supposedly working with ‘free-energy’ systems. He was a strong believer in electricity and magnetism. I think science will eventually discover how to tap the “aether.”

Oil and Nuclear are both extremely destructive.

DJohn1

What happens, happens. I think there is more oil on U.S. Controlled land than anyone knows about. It is a matter of when will it be released to world trade.
If the dollar is backed by solid commodities and energy reserves, then it might all turn around over night.
That is what it is really all about.
I suggest also that robotics will soon replace the Chinese cheap labor. The difference is transportation. Because it costs money to bring goods to the country. If the goods can be produced cheaper here with robotics then the advantage of China disappears.
Those stupid fools that are placing their company assets in Chna are in for quite a shock. It is called nationalization. It is called confiscation. It is all ready happening elsewhere in Russia. Both words are a polite way of saying we will steal whatever you have and there is nothing you can do about it.
One American Company recently had 137 million dollars worth of investment in Russia stolen. It was traced all the way to the top authorities in the country by 60 minutes. They literally stole the man’s company out from under him.
Other companies are quietly trying to remove their assets from Russia as we are discussing things because once you get a bad reputation it is hard to convince people to invest in your country.
Russia has a reputation of being crooked.
China has long been known for holding human life very cheap. They are also known as thieves. Russia and China both have reputations and the name is not good.
I suggest that the entire situation is about to change.

kfilly

The US gubernment is also a bunch of thieves. All gubernments with Rothschild controlled central banks are crooked. That covers pretty much everyone.

Adam Weisshaupt

Will the robots also be buying the goods they make? Money is just a symbol of value. If the human produces no value, he has nothing to trade. ? The US will become competitive labor wise when the dollar collapses and Americans start accepting the third world wage scale – because the US will be – for all real purposes, a third world country. Robots will only be used when they are result in a cheaper product, and if Americans are working for Chinese wages ( or less, because the Chinese now have the reserve) manufacturing will come back here, and robots won’t be terribly viable in either locale- but probably more so in China, not here.

Phil from Germany

Hey guess what guys ?, the party is over. Time to realise that.

Partysover

Phil, I have been saying that for years!

Micky Dees

It will be a very sad day when a McDouble is $100 instead of $1

Jimbo

The really sad day is when a McDouble costs $100 and you earn $200 a week. I was working in China a few years ago and they have Maccas over there. It cost me the same there as it would in London, Sydney or New York based on currency exchange rates. For the average Chinese worker however, it cost 3 days pay. If you go to Maccas or KFC in China, you do not line up behind meth addicts, land whales and schoolkids getting their breakfasts. You stand in line with elegant Chinese women in fur coats and rich businessmen taking clients for lunch.

Anthony

Its going to happen slowly over the next 20+ years as we gracefully slide into third world mediocrity.

alan

I suspect things will become more regoinal rather than the dollar just up and dying. Our debt is so big there is no way we can pay for it. Eventually something will have to give. Hopefully its very slow and graduale.

El Cid

Can you say, War?

chilller

The seeds of psychotic greed have been sewn into the fabric of the US. Those responsible wrap themselves in the flag and espouse the need to take more of our money in order to save the country…my big ol butt! They only care about themselves and will throw anyone and everyone under the bus in order to keep their corrupt behinds in power. The sooner these miscreants lose control by any means possible, the better. US citizens are no different than prisoners fed crumbs of bread and water. It’s high time for a prison riot!

El Cid

Unfortunately that will never happen.

GSOB

Palin for President.

libsarescum

Agree! She is the only one that has the guts to drain the cesspool we are in.

El Cid

I agree but the thing that concerns me is that she seems to be lining up with the NWO Neocons as opposed to her Libertarian, limited government beliefs.

Gay Veteran

hell, after Bush and Obama let’s put another village’s idiot in charge

Nicknakthetruthspeaker

USA can stick their patriotic act where I think.
fatca, fbar will be the end of USA. just wait July and see people jumping from their balcony. no body will deal with USA anymore and USA blackmail. guys,time for you to burn this ugly usa passport and follow same path as Tina Turner.

Eric Quintero

Dont burn your passport; thats your ticket off this sinking ship.

Nicknakthetruthspeaker

ah ah, the US government thought about this. if you relinquish your USA citizenship, they will seize 30 percent of your total asset. like Hitler did…. Maybe 100percent.

there is not easy way to escape from these USA crooks . if you are born in USA, you stuck….

not a good time to get a green card.

GSOB

Jesus is Jehovah!

Whatyouonabout?

Uhh??

Identity crisis

Actually,I thought Jesus was..errr….Jesus?
Is he someone else too?

K2

A year back i commented on another site saying that we could see a global depression, a global pandemic and a global war this decade. Economic slowdown in the states will aggravate slowdown in the rest of the world too.

Looks like we are on that path….

Randa

Bring it on. Please DEAR GOD, bring it on. The petrodollar is a sinking ship and all those on board need to find another boat to steer themselves out of the murky waters of our world.

We need to start over and this will be this first step.

1TruthSeeker

All hail the New Weird Odor!!!

James

It doesn’t matter if China or Russia shed their dollar holdings. In order for them to get rid of dollars, they would have to purchase real goods and services from Americans – or simply keep their dollars in reserve accounts.

Also, it doesn’t matter if the US ceases to be the reserve currency. Literally.

Oh yeah, Mike, FYI, a Treasury is nothing more than a dollar deposit at the FED, similar to a savings account. When Russia or China purchase US Treasuries, their reserve accounts at the FED are debited and their Treasury accounts are credited.When they get rid of Treasuries, their Treasury accounts are debited and their reserve accounts are credited. This cannot – on an operational level – cause financial strain for the federal government. Both Russia and China, under the current arrangement, are reliant on US credit creation, especially the Chinese.

arizonadiane

Personally I feel that Obama knows exactly what he is doing at every step. His plans to “fundamentally transform America” was a plan in the making long before he became Prez. And step by step…… he is doing it.

Splatterdbastard

Most Americans really don’t care. As long as they have something to whine about and a show to watch-They’re cool.
Sad, but true.

Living The Wheel

As long as whatever happens doesn’t cancel American Idol or Game of Thrones. That should be the typical American motto.

lehnne

It is worth keeping in mind that Russia dos not export natural gas and oil for any other motive than it desperately needs the revenue. Slapping your customers in the face with an economic fist along with the U.S. petrodollar is a two-edged sword.

Eric Quintero

Russia just made a deal with the world’s largest importer of oil: China. They covered their bases before making the move. Putin is not a moron.

lehnne

To be sure Putin is no idiot, he may be wrong but no idiot. My point is there are many tangential issues to displacing the fiat petro dollar- Where are most of China’s customers? Would such a move have a negative impact on Chinese exports and how would this effect internal demand? What is the demand in Russia for Chinese exports. The rationale for Sino-Soviet collusion are more complicated in the second decade of the 21st century than in the 20th.

Randome-11

“Putin is not a moron.”

Unlike lehnne and all the other Obamney voters

underaged

Do you really think any serious investor will trade oil for notes in rubles? If you think Russia’s economic-political system is more stable than America’s, then you’ve been buying into your own (and Putin’s) BS for way too long.

therooster

Gold is a currency and market forces are pushing us toward that application for weighted settlment. In this context, the USD does not have to act as a currency for settlement. It can also double as a real-time measure for weighted settlement …. debt free. The dollar will act as a transaction oriented real-time measure and a servant to bullion for debt-free transactions.

Will Rogers

Need to do an article about how typical Americans think only America can ‘saction’. Even Iran has santions against the US.

Joe

No worries. Those wasters in Brussels will buy til they dry. If that’s not enough, Japan will be the buyer of the last resort.

JailBanksters

It’s more like…..
Other countries will not be financing the American way of Life anymore by buying the US Debt (Bonds).
These days it doesn’t take much for the USA to start a war, just a drop of a hat will do. Just the thought of dropping the PetroDollar will cause the Jews to go into a Tailspin.
So it’s either War or petrol will be back to 1980’s prices.

IA_Adam

Rough times ahead for the US if this happens. The dominoes will start falling if one major coalition can break the petrodollar standard. China, India, Indonesia, and other Asian states will want to follow.

Eric Quintero

The Coalition is already formed. Its called BRICS. Russia and China are at the helm and they’re gearing up for the global switch.

Not sure how much time is left at this point. It could be a gradual decline, but it certainly has the capability of accelerating very rapidly.

IA_Adam

It was bound to happen sooner or later. The Petrodollar is extraordinarily unfair to newly industrialized nations, many of whom are actually managing their economies and societies better than the US is now.

As a US citizen, I’m not looking forward to the transition, but I think in the long run it will be better for the average US person because it will diminish the power of Washington DC whose power is based on monetizing debt indefinitely based on the false assumption that the petrodollar will last indefinitely. At this point, the US needs to split up between states that want to be like the EU and states that want to try their hand at something yet to be seen.

The US government now is fully committed to the formation of a North American Union between Mexico, the US, and Canada, but, as it stands now, there won’t be much in it for Canada other than supporting a demoralized and broke US and a thoroughly corrupt Mexico.

Maneb

Frankly I can’t feel sorry for the US given events like the disgusting Keystone spectacle. the worst part is that Bin Bama treats his allies such as Canada and Israel like dirt.
It will be fun to observe how Americans will feel about “climate change” when the price of gas doubles or triples. Will the Hollywood types and billionares suffer then. Nope.. No way. They’ll keep on jetting.
I’m almost rooting for Russia now. What good is it being a partner with the US now? Not much apparently. this is the wonderful “transformation” of America into a corrupt third world cesspool. At least it will be a green cesspool! But then, North Korea is apparently very green too (no industry besides the army and gulags).

Randome-11

Why should he and his regime not do that? These “allies” are even more worthless than Italy was to Germany in WW2.

tacoma

You know, when America used up so much of its oil/gas by the 1960 that it began to import, reaching a peak of 70% import by the 1990’s, Canada contributed to half of it. This to help drive US industry, provide secured energy. And now, US suddenly enjoy a slight amount of oil/gas ‘excess’ due to heavy fracture mining, Obama thanks Canada by blocking Keystone pipeline construction. Even when it means 30,000 US jobs.

When Russia & China announce end of using the US dollar for oil/gas, you will see Canada doing same. And when Canada joins, the rest of the world follows.

Houtex77

So what happens to the housing industry?

Randome-11

Easy, people cannot afford to pay, banks have their houses and appartements foreclosed.

Banks does not make much profits from seized houses, due to the populations increased poverty, goes bankrupt once the big scheme collapses.

Deanna Clark

Americans of all incomes have been gluttons for slave goods for 30 years now. They live disposable lives, tossing cars, marriages, toys, clothes, shoes, electronics out the doors of their lives…having “garage sales” with all the loot. We throw away enough food to feed the world every day.

Any fool can see such a culture is asking for a wake up call. There’s no point in blaming the elite or Russia or the Vatican…we have done this to ourselves. Stupid children…

Jason7189

Putin is ruthless and would cut off his nose to spit his face. I can totally see Russia and China teaming-up, doing something like this in retaliation. The World has more dislike to the US Government, than people think.

scs2000

The American politicians all knew what Russia would do, that’s why they did it, the petro-dollar is on the verge of collapse, now they can blame it on Russia instead of themselves AND at the same time, roll out the new world order currency…None of this is by accident!

The U.S Govt already has the new currency ready to go, it’s backed by silver and instead of the Fiat currency we have now, Federal Reserve Notes which are owned by the banking cabal of London, the new money is Treasury Reserve Notes issued by the govt…It will be rolled out very soon, it’s been in the works for months and months, notice Geitner gone, Bernanke gone and numerous other officials, this is why….

DW

I’m afraid you are correct. This is ALL by design and has been in the works since the Federal Reserve was born.

Eric Quintero

Ugh your posts makes too much sense. Im just hoping this nonsense holds out just a bit longer. Id be very thankful if it held out till 2016.

Splatterdbastard

As if Ohole is gonna give up his power.
The American ppl just dont care nemore. He duznt hav a thing 2 fear from this nation of sheep.

Gay Veteran

“…It would be nice if things would calm down in Ukraine and the relationship between the United States and Russia could go back to normal….”
Both Russia and China understand that the U.S. is seeking TOTAL hegemony. With our military bases surrounding both countries they now see that the only way to remain independent is to cooperate with each other.

tacoma

“After all, this wouldn’t just be a slap in the face. This would essentially be like slamming an economic fist into our nose.”

Why are you saying this Mike? Every country issues its own currency, and every country has the right to demand payments in its own currency. Why call a ‘fist into our nose’ when Russia demands oil payments in ruble? When America demanded oil producing countries to accept oil payment in US dollars decades ago, it was indeed a slap in their faces.

Now if Russia demands the USA to accept oil payments in rubles, *that* will be a slap in America face.

Gay Veteran

more like the neo-cons took on 2 world powers

FirstGarden

Tectonic plates do shift under terrific and prolonged pressure.
How much more human governments?

Michael Yates

If Russia was serious about taking down the petrodollar they would’ve done this and far more years ago. No, this is just more gamesmanship, letting the US know they can pull this lever if their interests in Ukraine are hampered.
Meanwhile, the real story is China dropping an oil drilling operation in Vietnam’s waters, guarded by a massive naval floatilla.
But always remember, both Russia and China have central banks and are run by bankers. Heck, Russia’s financial counselor is Goldman Sachs!!

All one big theatre folks, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be cataclysm, there will.

DB

Would it be a “red line” if Russia were to stop using the petrodollar? If that’s what Obama is saying, we need not worry.

Sparrows456

…..And then that pesky “reality” comes settling in to dash the expectations of the prognosticators who make an obscene living by preying on the fears of a certain subset while conveniently never having to substantiate annual win/loss percentages or apologize when flat wrong. Otherwise known as parasitical.

MrPissonyourgrave .

Dominoes Falling……….

H. Keith MacDougall

“…rumblings by nations such as Russia and China about the need to change to a new system.”
How about Iraq and Libya, both of whose leaders paid with their lives for such audacity?!

Hiroshi Yamamoto

First, situation in Ukraine will get even worse.
40 pro-Kremlin rebels and protesters were burned to death in Odessa recently.
In other city 20 pro-Russian rebels and protesters were killed by Ukrainian army in Mariupol.
The situation there is similar to situation in Syria 3 years ago – just before official civil war.
Second – Russia and China will not dump dollar so easy. Because only China has 1.1 trillion holds in debt assets
Russia has around 150 billion.
Japan has 1.1 trillion but they are an ally of US.
So first – they want back debt before dumping the dollar
Or they will ask to give something in the nature – Obama’s rear

Kent Harris

What is also not mentioned is the fact that Russia is rebuilding their navy. Last year, they built 36 new ships and when they took over the Crimea it added another 50 new warships to their arsenal. This past Wednesday the Russian navy is set to do a joint war games with China. China has ramped up their navy by adding last year 50 new vessels and this year they are expected to add another 50. This is response to our aggressive behavior.

Wroots

True. With the US building its ring of military bases around Russia, and installing themselves right on the Chinese border in Afghanistan, why would Russia and China not have invested in national defence?

AMERICA’S DAYS AS SUPERPOWER POWER ARE COMING TO AN END. Russia will head the attack in the West and China will attack in the East. Every other nation will be in play.

Wroots

We are used to the USA’s shock-and-awe attacks and orchestrated coups to gain global power and control tactics so we are inclined to think that other countries are as evil. We should not assume that Russia and China will do the same.

They all may want to do it but no one country can be trusted with all the power. It’s not healthy or sustainable. Looks like US is finished in that role for all kinds of reasons including we have turned on God and He has now turned on us.

Wroots

Essentially, I agree with you, but I am not religious; besides which, different cultures have different gods. One thing we can all agree with as humans, though, is that the way we have treated the Earth is unsustainable and very unhealthy for all living things. It has anticipated for years that the crash of the economy would occur before the ecological breakdown. Perhaps we need a severe worldwide economic crash to bring us to our senses. An economic comeuppance will be far less serious than an ecological one. We can but hope.

Yes, but whose religion? People are not exactly tolerant of others’ religions as can be seen from the literally hundreds of millions of people who have been killed in religious conflicts and wars over the course of human history. Most religions and cultures praise creation in one form or another, so perhaps it is this aspect of everyone’s religious and cultural beliefs that could unite us in a common cause to rescue ourselves from what we have done to planet Earth. Wouldn’t it be nice if all nations metaphorically wearing their own national dress (religion and culture) could come together and get along together in peace as they do in the opening ceremony of the Olympic games? It’s the only part of the Olympics I ever watch because it gives me hope. If only all 198 nations could come together to celebrate the beauty and life on this planet and work in cooperation to clean up the awful mess we have made over the past 200 years or so!

FounderChurch is the best of all of them. Google “FounderChurch” and get started. It’s your church.

Wroots

I think this is the root of the troubles between religious beliefs. Everyone thinks theirs is the best and this causes conflicts. There is no such thing as “best”, but only “different” when it comes to religion. If I were forced (and I’d have to be VERY forcefully compelled indeed) to choose a religion, I would choose Taoism. In the meantime, I’m perfectly happy to be an atheist who respects the religious beliefs of others.

Ok Happy Atheist. BUT Religions determine EVERYTHING, so outside them YOU can have no influence on anything.

Wroots

I do hope you were not belittling my chosen religion of Atheism when you greeted me as a Happy Atheist. To avoid hurt feelings it would be better if you respected my personal choice. I have not scoffed at you for being a person with a god and a religion. To do so would result in the kind of conflict I mentioned in a previous comment. Your beliefs are yours, and mine are mine. I never make a big to-do out of my choice because I don’t have to. I simply have had no use for gods and religion for over 60 years. I am, however, very thankful for religions because people’s beliefs have given us some wonderful architecture (pyramids, stupas, temples, churches, cathedrals, ziggurats, mosques, etc.), and ceramics, illuminated manuscripts, frescoes, sculptures, stained glass, stone masonry, wood-carvings, tapestries, paintings, and music.

I have to disagree with you regarding what you say about religions determining everything. This may have been true in Ancient Egypt, Rome, Greece, etc., and before church and state were separated in Europe, but it’s no longer the case in the western world now. No longer do corrupt, greed-driven cardinals coerce monarchies.

Churches are being closed as congregations decline in Christian churches everywhere. Most people have subscribed to the Culture of More; Their new god is money and stuff, and their religion is called greed.

Far more powerful than churches or religions are corporations/industries and militaries, and we all know that they break every one of the 10 Commandments on a pretty much minute-by-minute basis. I abide by the 10 Commandments and that’s good enough for me. So, yes. I am a Happy Atheist.

I used the words you used to describe yourself. I will try to respond later to you when I’m at my computer. I’m on my cell now. I’m no ordinary Believer which you would see if you read my extended writing. Google “FOUNDERCHURCH” and go from there.

Wroots

I said, and I quote: “I’m perfectly happy to be an atheist who respects the religious beliefs of others.” This is a description of myself. “Happy Atheist” complete with capital letters is a proper name, a noun.

I respect your beliefs because you are entitled to believe in whatsoever and whomsoever you choose, but this doesn’t mean to say that I am convertible to yours or anyone else’s religious beliefs. I have discussed this many times with people over the decades, including with my friends who are devout Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Pentecostalists, Bahai,
Hindus, etc., and also with two lovely Jehovah Witness sisters who knock on my door once weekly. It seems to me that it is relatively easy for people to accept others’ religious beliefs even when they are different to their own, but as soon as I admit to being atheist, they try to convert me from atheism to theism as though it mattered to have a god, any god rather than no god. Atheism is a religion. Theism has god/s, and atheism doesn’t.

I have never for the past 61 years been able to comprehend how well-educated, reasoning, mature adults, can possibly believe in the existence of god/s. It is completely beyond my understanding.

BrianSheller

I’ve enjoyed reading your posts in the exchange with Founder.

There was just one small thing I wanted to mention and it is that surely atheism is no religion.

Religion is defined by the belief of the existence of a superhuman entity, something atheism certainly lacks.

I think referring to atheism as a religion without a god is akin to claiming that poverty is affluence, just without the money or wealth.

Wroots

I just googled “Is Atheism a religion?” and found some interesting answers. What would you do, for example, with a recognized world religion such as Jainism that does not have a deity?

At this link, religion has been broken down into seven parts and it has been found that Atheism has six of the seven. Ritual is the part that has been missing but apparently this is changing. What do you think?

I should have been more clear in my initial post, I should have said that one common and often defining characteristic of religion, especially those dominating the religious scene, is the presence of a super natural entity. Of course, however, one word can never capture every aspect of expression.The word, religion, is a high level, nearly abstract descriptor. At lower levels we can see the difference and similarities of things being examined. When we examine atheism, religions with deities, and religions without, I think atheism is still far from either class of religion.

It lacks the structure, intellectual rigidity, mysticsm, and unfounded claims that many religions exhibit. Atheism is less anti-religion as it is pre-religion. I will say that it seems to me that the default state of man is atheist. Theism is introduced much later in life, but up to that point of introduction, one is an atheist, that is he lacks belief in any god. Even if man, during his life conjures an image or develops suspicion of a higher power, I expect that two men raised by two different packs of wolves will be unlikely to create the same image of god as one another.

With regard to Jainism, despite its lack of diety, I think it has been placed inside the realm of religion on account of its possessing a system of belief and an ancient delineated view of the universe. Though Jainism is referred to as a religion, it strikes as more rooted in philosophy than worship. It certainly is set apart from most western religions in this respect.

Jainism and like religions fill a grey area tending more, in my view, toward a philosophical pursuit rather than one of a divine motivation. The term religion applies to these belief systems, but only as a high-level descriptor, upon closer examination it becomes apparent that they are not religions in the same sense as the globally dominant western religions.

Regarding the page from the Creation Ministries website, I’d like to point out before I break it down further that the author engaged in a labored exercise of contorting semantics with the goal of painting atheism as a religion. He, willingly or ignorantly, misrepresented a number of facts and atheistic positions. He presents one strawman after another and by the second section, the integrity of his writing is completely compromised. I have to ask myself, “What interest would any organization secure in its own beliefs have in painting its opposition as itself.”

With regard to the 7 characteristics of a religion put forth by the author:

The author paints the theory of evolution as an atheistic narrative, which it is not.
The theory of evolution is simply the result of observing and hypothesizing with regard to what has been taking place on planet Earth for as long as life as existed, it makes no claims regarding gods nor the origin of life. It is also not rigid, if information arose that cast serious doubt on the theory of evolution, reasoned minds would investigate further and make adjustments to their understanding.
The author is unfocused and in reading this section I got the feeling that he was spending more effort on weakly discrediting the theory of evolution than he was painting atheism as a religion.

In effect, he created a strawman of not only Darwin’s original theory, but the much further advanced theory we have today.

He deploys the same strawman in his paragraphs regarding the experiential aspect of Atheism. The whole thing seems to hinge on the theory of evolution being a lie, or at least completely false.

He misrepresents atheism as having its own definition of faith as “believing in the impossible”, which it does not. I, myself am atheist and I have faith in all kinds of things, one of which is gravity. I, as all humans, lack a complete understanding of gravity but I not only feel its presence, but perceive its actual measurable effects on the world around me. Despite my lack of understanding, I have great faith that I will not simply begin floating away from the surface of this planet for no reason. The key is that gravity can be observed, its existence is not subjective nor is it felt differently by each individual.

By misrepresenting an atheist view of faith, he even clumsily hints at why faith could become illogical, or at least be based on invalid or incomplete logic. He asserts that faith is defined as “… being certain of what we do not see”

With that, my view is that the practice of maintaining certainty while facing mounting evidence that one’s beliefs are fictional fits more with stubbornness than with faith. It is at this point that such a brand of faith breaks with logic as it no longer maintains a position of valid reasoning.

At the end of his bit on the experiential aspect of religions and its relation to atheism, he even goes so far as to misrepresent the sciences by asserting that atheists are bound to believe that the “laws” of our universe must have been broken for life to arise. Humans have an admitted lack of understanding regarding the origin of life, however I don’t expect the apparent rules of our somewhat quantifiable universe to have changed for life to arise. In fact, it is the religious crowd that generally hold beliefs and make claim, that if true, would require the observed characteristics of the universe to have been violated over multiple instances.

I read through the rest of the page and each section mirrors the others. Strawman arguments, misrepresented claims, imagined facts, and sloppy thinking. The whole point he’s trying to make seems to hinge on evolution being unreal and the Christian Bible being divinely inspired, though he never really properly supports either of those foundations of his position. I don’t see much of a need to carry on breaking down his other arguments as it would be a task of unnecessary, tedious repetition to no end.

If atheism is a religion, none of what has been published by Creation Ministries supports such a claim.

Cheers!

Wroots

But what a long response! I don’t have time to respond in kind at the moment, but I will do so soon. Just wanted to let you know this.

Wroots

Oops. I added a link to my response to your message and I think it may not be approved by Economic Collapse for this reason. In case it is not approved, here is my response again with a bit of a road map on how to get to the link.

I just googled “Is Atheism a religion?” and found some interesting answers. What would you do, for example, with a recognized world religion such as Jainism that does not have a deity?

At this link, religion has been broken down into seven parts and it has been found that Atheism has six of the seven. Ritual is the part that has been missing but apparently this is changing. What do you think?

Google “Is atheism a kind of religion” and go to the second entry – “creation dot com forward slash atheism-a-religion”.

Kent Harris

You realize you have just made the exact prophecy for which Isaiah 9 spoke of. Take note verse 12.

9All the people will know it—
Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria—
who say with pride
and arrogance of heart,
10 “The bricks have fallen down,
but we will rebuild with dressed stone;
the fig trees have been felled,
but we will replace them with cedars.”
11 But the Lord has strengthened Rezin’s foes against them
and has spurred their enemies on.
12 (Arameans from the east and Philistines from the west)
have devoured Israel with open mouth.
Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.

Very perspective of you. We are being set up by Democrat Fascists among us.

Pastor Glenn

The Untied Status of Amerika has attacked and removed the governments of all other nations which have attempted to utilize gold or buy/sell internationally without the dollar “middleman” involved, and insanely (I predict) the morons in NYC who kontrol the strings of the puppets in DC will try it against Russia. They’ll be expecting to roll over the Russians and simply replace their government with one ‘friendly’ to the USD, but these sub-moronic imbeciles have not studies history nor do they think themselves anything but invincible.
My prediction of what will happen? The Untied Status of Amerika, which ceased to legally exist on April 30 2014 (when the supreme court of morons declared it ‘legal’ for the current administration to haul off citizens in the middle of the night never to see daylight, or a judge, or a jury – at their whim) will cease to exist in any form after being decimated by Russia, China, and virtually all other nations which have been screwed over by the USD Ponzi scheme.
Ever heard of Mexican gold? Most people have not. It was a world trading currency prior to the US gaining ascendency in the world some 100 years ago.
All things come to an end. Expect the few survivors of the US to be treated less well than the US treated Germans and Japanese after WWII. That was a one-time thing by a nation of people who had a Christian backbone through the culture. There are no such nations now.
Pastor Glenn

ALM

Putin’s gambit is of a superior quality. Allow Obama to rejoice the overthrow of an elected President using paid ultra nationalists and then pocket Crimea with all its oil reserves in the black sea worth trillions. The second move is even more interesting. Allow Obama to emotionally order the Ukrainian army into the East angering the population into voting for independence. Now, the ball is on US’s court. I wonder what the move is going to be.

Wroots

A ban on imports of Russian vodka, while Mr. Putin moves his chess pieces into place for a checkmate.

B Jenkum

Obama’s move will be to hoard vaseline…

B Jenkum

If your retirement is in dollar denominated assets you’ll wake up one morning and find it was devalued over night. There will be no warning. Today’s Russia-China agreement to trade using local currency is a major crack in dam. It can burst anytime. Putin promised it. If you want to hedge your future well being you must hold some Eagles or Maple leafs. Even the 401k administrators are telling us the market is over the top. Now might be one of the times that precious metals make sense. The prices are well off the highs of 2011, owning a little would be painless. Don’t be a victim of the coming banking collapse. Even Geithner is scared!

CTmagEditor

I would like to re-print this article. Can you please advise?

Coenraad Loubser

Fast forward a few years… what will really change save for the name of our currency… and perhaps the network holding it together? I’ve been following the doom-prophet non-mainstream media for a few years now… mostly for the entertainment value in the creativity of their conspiracy theories, keeps the wits sharp. I see the poor state of the US little more than it falling in line with global standards as other countries are lifting themselves up out of dire poverty. But I wasn’t expecting the dollar to strengthen this year, nor US stocks to perform as they did, in fact, I’m still waiting for a pullback to get into a lot of markets… The impact of countries abandoning the dollar could take years to be felt and I don’t see the nett effect being nearly the disaster some people make it out to be – it’ll be more a matter of rather than the world’s wealth ending up in the hands of a few, it being spread around more evenly. With a little blood on the floor… perhaps. But that’s what happens when juvenile ego’s get bruised.

BrianSheller

From a distant view, surely you’re correct that such a process will be one of the US falling in line with global standards. However, I wonder how violent that process may become. There have been enough blunders made by one American administration after another to this point that I have little faith that the US’s transition toward what you refer to as “global standards” will be smooth. Nationalism will overrun our political system and bad decisions will likely be made.

Getting a plane into the air is easy, bringing her back to Earth requires some finesse.

(and yes, the doom profiteering is something to behold. It serves as entertainment and as inspiration for all kinds of fiction.)

louiseobrien2010

Good to see someone in America is awake on this. Most financial news organisations are ignoring it.
Most of America’s allies think the US is finished as an empire and in serious decline especially in Asia.

BrianSheller

I can’t wait to see what it means, “National Security,” over the next several decades.

I expect that over the next several decades, on a global scale, there will be much evil perpetrated against one another in the name of this “National Security.”

Howard

Why must we have unnecessary arguments. The politicians are the main danger, who have tricked us out of tangible wealth, Gold. We have to have a currency that is genuine, and the only genuine currency that the world has ever known before the paper money was forced down the world was Gold. That is what we should all be having as a back up.