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The high divorce rate

Let us discuss here the high divorce rate. there are several theories As to why we have such a high divorce rate. theory number one: No fault divorce laws. theory number two: people are marrying later. theory number three: cultural Change.
And various other theories. I support theory number two. people are marrying after collage, when they are more independent. so, when their marriage is struggling, they figure they are good enough already on their own and just give up.
Discuss your theories here.

number 3, with economical influences, atleast over here. This is part of the cultural change, as it has become much more normal for a couple to split, if they don’t like eachother. However, and this has been on the news,( I am too lazy to find a source at this instance, but if needed I can always find one), people stick together longer in times of crisis, like we have had behind us, even if they don’t like each other.

> *Originally posted by **[Bobneson](/forums/9/topics/338193?page=1#posts-7069697):***
>
> Let us discuss here the high divorce rate.
Do you have any figures please? Or some source showing how it has changed over time?
As with any other complex societal issue, there’s not going to be any one singular cause for an increase, but rather a bit of a bell curve split between different triggers. Are we seeing an increased outlet for ‘escape’ from prearranged marriages? Are we seeing a decrease in the religious aspect of a marriage “till death do you part”?
Or is it in fact no higher than the rate was 10, 20 years ago, and any perceived differences are simply due to population growth and heightened interconnectivity? With a smaller world, connectivity-speaking, you are going to know more people, which in turn means your statistical likelihood of knowing someone who is getting a divorce or has been divorced, will increase.

> …people stick together longer in times of crisis, like we have had behind us, even if they don’t like each other.
According to [this report](http://metro.co.uk/2011/12/08/recession-blamed-for-first-divorce-rate-rise-in-seven-years-248762/), the exact opposite is true. And according to [this little thesis](http://equalsoc.org/uploaded_files/publications/DidUnilateralDivorceLawsRaiseDivorceRatesinWesternEurope.pdf), a bit dry but quite illuminating, hard evidence in the form of well collated statistics is a bit thin on the ground.
Certainly cultural change has played its part. Experiences in the First World War changed my maternal grandfather into a serial shagger, and in the early twenties he demanded a divorce from my grandmother so he could marry the second of his three wives. Being a God-fearing practising Methodist she refused, seeing divorce as a source of endless shame. He proceeded to bully her into agreeing by threatening to flee the country and leave her with nothing, and then lied in court about his financial standing in order to pay her (with three children to raise) as little as possible. The social mores of the time allowed him to get away with it, which he would not be able to do today. The huge social changes which happened between the wars were only just beginning, and society was still filled with what we think of as Victorian attitudes.
Feminism, in the sense of women being seen as people rather than chattels, and the general lifting of taboos surrounding divorce, means that women at least can get a far better deal than was possible in the past, so perhaps that has led to women in unhappy marriages being more willing to sue for divorce than used to be the case.

it is well known that the US, aar, has a very high divorce rate. although, how high is 50% really? :/
> theory number two: people are marrying later.
that’s stupid. stats and any common sense will tell you the younger you marry, the HIGHER the chance for divorce.
> theory number three: cultural Change
if you want to discuss an increase in divorce rate, than that answer is a non-explanation. it’s almost a given that it’s because of some cultural change, and any answer should try to define what cultural change that is.
i don’t know what the cause is, but i do know a fix: abolish marriage.

[http://roundupdaily.com/news/article\_b14758a2-4006-11e2-a5bf-0019bb30f31a.html](http://roundupdaily.com/news/article_b14758a2-4006-11e2-a5bf-0019bb30f31a.html)
Guess I never thought of it that way. one would think that when you get married in collage, your bond gets stronger as you two are working out your problems together. however, that is not the case. as there is stress involved, and we all know what stress can do to a relationship… and as they stated, your brain is not fully developed yet, so it is better to get married later.
Thank you OgemaDoom.

Theory #4: A much elevated status for women.
This began w/ the 19th Amendment which, the better known fact, gave them the vote.
1: Lesser known is the property rights for married women…
A man could divorcee a woman & she had no rights to any of the assests.
She had no rights in regards to her children…they were HIS.
2: _“While the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment allowed women to vote, it also had a substantial impact on the gender composition of political office holders and the way both American citizens and Congress members as a whole tended to vote. Through time, these demographic changes in both voting blocs and elected office holders have impacted government spending, programs, and laws.”_
3: _“Immediately following the ratification of the 19th Amendment, many legislators feared a powerful women’s bloc would emerge as a result of female enfranchisement. The Sheppard-Towner Act of 1921, **which expanded maternity care** during the 1920s, was one of the first laws passed appealing to the female vote.”_
Numbers 2 & 3 basically meant women were able to depend much less on a husband for support….thus elevating their economic status. Women entering the work force (during WWII) proved their value & capabilities there. [Rosie the Riviter](http://www.google.com/search?q=rosie+the+riveter&hl=en&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS446US447&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=S8WUUdu8KoS09gTp-IDgBQ&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=612) gave women clout. And w/ the Civil Rights Act of 1964, not only did job discrimination against Blacks end, so did it end for women. Further rights were enhanced by addressing sexual harrassment in the workplace.
Women’s status was really propeled by the birth control pill,,,,
or, reproductive control for their bodies.
This meant that women’s status to engage in “sport sex” became equal to that of men…also called the sexual revolution. Of course, legalization of abortion adding further control for women gave them even more independence from men.
There was a time that, in a marriage, forcible sex on the wife wasn’t considered rape…[see](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape)
_“The concept of a marital exemption, that is, a legal framework, or, perhaps even more importantly, a social view, stating that a husband cannot be charged with the rape of his wife, must be understood in the historical context of marriage, rape, and of women’s position in society. Through much of the history, and still in some countries today, women were considered legal minors belonging at first to their fathers, and then to their husbands. As such, **women had very few rights of their own** , and the relationship between husband and wife, in terms of authority and balance of power, was mirroring that between father and daughter.”_
Theory #4 is about how women’s social status has risen to the level of THEIR being able to have THEIR wishes enter the decision on whether to continue a marriage.
Economic independance, reproductive control, etc. have empowered women to the point they no longer are dependant on marriage (a man) to be able to have a decent life.

A high divorce rate is a sign of a healthy society.
A lot of humans just won’t work in lifelong (or decade-long, or five-year long) monogamous relationships and it’s only to be expected that something (marriage) which tries to force them into that is going to break down an awful lot.
Lots of divorces also suggest that each gender has sufficient confidence and legal right to go ahead with them.

It seems far more productive for a society to hold less forced choice marriage due to morality than ones where people are leaving for more prosperous or interesting endeavors. Divorce isn’t a bad thing, at all, it is quite helpful and useful for people to live far more rich, and fulfilling lives. Especially if you are woman, and decide to marry rich and receive the benefits, and continue to use those benefits to enrich, and improve your life. Why not? Men exploit poor nations. Why can’t women exploit the exploiters? &nbsp; :P An eye for an eye. XD

> *Originally posted by **[PurpleCavalier](/forums/9/topics/338193?page=1#posts-7081106):***
>
> Maybe it is tied to the fact that people are always wanting something new or better. The fact that you can pretty much walk away hands clean makes it to easy, so there is no reason to stay with it.Most definitely _tied to it_, Purple.
We have become a very “throw-away” society in many aspects.
Of course, this really isn’t all that new….ppl change//evolve…they get old & die, replaced by the “new”//different attitudes of the “young”.
Women’s clothing fashion is a good example of a loooong standing “just-got-to-have-the-lastest-design”.
What is different is how quickly things change.
Look at how fast electronic tech is now exponentially changing.
I still have (but don’t need….lol) my [beeper](http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=did+all+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS446US447&q=did+all+of+the+constitutional+delegates+sign+the+constitution&gs_l=hp..5.0l5j41l2.0.0.0.6220...........0.uMk0UsjVDRA#hl=en&gs_rn=14&gs_ri=psy-ab&pq=did%20all%20of%20the%20constitutional%20delegates%20sign%20the%20constitution&cp=9&gs_id=3w&xhr=t&q=planned+obsolescence&es_nrs=true&pf=p&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS446US447&sclient=psy-ab&oq=planned+o&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.dmQ&fp=b940c212f59370e9&biw=1024&bih=612)
Ever heard of: [Planned obsolesence](http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=did+all+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS446US447&q=did+all+of+the+constitutional+delegates+sign+the+constitution&gs_l=hp..5.0l5j41l2.0.0.0.6220...........0.uMk0UsjVDRA#hl=en&gs_rn=14&gs_ri=psy-ab&pq=did%20all%20of%20the%20constitutional%20delegates%20sign%20the%20constitution&cp=9&gs_id=3w&xhr=t&q=planned+obsolescence&es_nrs=true&pf=p&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS446US447&sclient=psy-ab&oq=planned+o&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.dmQ&fp=b940c212f59370e9&biw=1024&bih=612)
And, for many products….it is much cheaper to just go out & buy a mew one rather than pay $60-$80 labor costs to repair it.
It might be the same for a wife….
LOL

> *Originally posted by **[Bobneson](/forums/9/topics/338193?page=1#posts-7069697):***
>
> And various other theories. I support theory number two. people are marrying after collage, when they are more independent. so, when their marriage is struggling, they figure they are good enough already on their own and just give up.
> Discuss your theories here.
Interesting second theory, Bob. I had heard the opposite, which was waiting to get married (i.e. after college) led to more mature choices and thus longevity. I had also heard that cohabitation before marriage led to more divorce than when people “jumped” right into it without living together first, but what do I know. I always thought living together and “trying out” the goods was a better bet than going into it blind. I also observe that the divorce rate is abomindably high these days, and I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing.

I am often asked why I believe the divorce rate is so high. I am often told why others feel the divorce rate is so high. I have an opinion and so does everyone else.It surprises me that the opinions of some are rather simplistic when explaining the high divorce rate in our country. Some point a finger at feminist, others blame a lack of commitment.
Based own my experience it goes deeper than feminism or a lack of commitment by spouses to the marriage. Below are a few observations from those experiences:
1) People end up in divorce court because they wait too long to find solutions to the problems in their marriage. We are a nation of highly independent people and in my opinion that independence we covet stands in the way of us being able to humble ourselves and ask for help.We don’t like to think we can’t solve a problem alone. We are of the mind that if we work harder we can deal with the issues. What we don’t stop to consider is that, if you don’t have the skills needed to work through the problems it doesn’t matter how hard you work. A little humility, a little less faith in ourselves to handle it all and a willingness to admit to needing help would keep quite a few couples from becoming a victim of divorce.
2)Couples don’t know how to fight fairly. They have this romantic notion that if they are in “love” there should be no fighting. Once the fighting begins, they are so flabbergasted by the idea that someone who loves them would criticize them that all hell breaks out.Instead of realizing that fighting can be healthy for a relationship, people become highly offended, start harboring resentment and start withdrawing from their spouse. There is an inability to fight, make-up, forgive and get on with the marriage.
3)In a marriage a person’s role with change. At times, they will be in control of major issues, at other times their spouse will be in control of major issues. I see an unwillingness to give over control to each other. It is called mutual submission and in my experience, I see very few people willing to yield control to their spouse. It is a “my way or the highway” mentality that is destroying marriages and leaving people with nothing but their need to be control freaks.
4)People are too quick to seek comfort somewhere else if things aren’t working out in their marriage. Declining morals and the skewed belief that straying outside the marriage is justifiable if your needs aren’t getting met is devastating to a marriage. Very few marriages recover from infidelity and many people end up alone with the realization that looking outside the marriage to solve problems only adds to their problems.
5)We live in a disposable society. Marriages are thrown away in the same fashion one would toss an old pair of shoes. We are looking for a quick fix, something that can satisfy our needs and if those needs aren’t satisfied some feel it is easier to toss the spouse and move on to the next relationship. If the marriage becomes hard and requires a little attention and work it is easier for some to discard the marriage than to hunker down, roll their sleeves up and go to work.
6)Our expectations of what marriage is supposed to be are childish. We think if we meet someone, fall in love and marry that, that person is going to take care of all our needs, be there at every need and put to end any problems or loneliness we may feel.We marry expecting someone else to make us happy, instead of making our own selves happy and then marrying. Many people marry without realizing that their happiness is their own responsibility and if you aren’t happy there is on one on earth who can fix that problem but yourself.

> *Originally posted by **[Draconavin](/forums/9/topics/338193?page=1#posts-7083876):***
>
> Marriage is not sacred :)
Uh, [some people](http://living.msn.com/love-relationships/love-sex/happily-married-swingers-9) don’t treat it as such (if you equate sacred = monogamy, anyhow), but they argue it helps them. I don’t know, I’ve never tried it.
Although, in terms of marriage and its breakdown, there are numerous ways to go astray, including Craigslist and Ashley Madison (which in my opinion is just an asshole website in its mission).

> *Originally posted by **[Twilight\_Ninja](/forums/9/topics/338193?page=1#posts-7084409):***
> > *Originally posted by **[Draconavin](/forums/9/topics/338193?page=1#posts-7083876):***
> >
> > Marriage is not sacred :)
>
> Uh, [some people](http://living.msn.com/love-relationships/love-sex/happily-married-swingers-9) don’t treat it as such (if you equate sacred = monogamy, anyhow), but they argue it helps them. I don’t know, I’ve never tried it.And therein lies the rub.
I’m going to (hope?) say that most couples enter their marriages w/ FULL intentions of living up to ALL OF their vows….including & ESPECIALLY monogamy.
Where the problem enters is that—even though they have come from a family—they know not what being the spouse//adult involves,,,at least on the levels that matter more//most as far as serious effects on the relationship are concerned. They just haven’t yet experienced this….of course, there are those who fail marriage-after-marriage; even to the same person.
Now, as far as monogamy goes….
let’s be realistic…“cheating” is huge.
I’m not gonna go get some links touting the “numbers” on all sorts of variables about it.
Let’s do an “ax” here and say that infidelity likely is one of the biggest (finances is really big), if not biggest, causes of serious damage to marriages.
So, obviously there is a “cause”….eh?
I’d like to think we can agree that it usually lies w/ the male,,,
regardless of how one might look at the (yes…realistic) causes on the females side (frigidity…lack of interest…lack of whatever).
This casual issue centers around the human male’s huge difficulty in being able to “FOCUS” his sexual interest//desire toward ONE woman & do it for a looooooooooong period of time.
Failure for society to adequately grasp this concept over the “happily-ever after” crap is the ticking time-bomb. A man is gonna do what a man does. It is how nature designed us.
We males produce our half of the sum in the millions….per day and can sow those (viable) oats almost daily. Women produce their half ONCE A MONTH & it is usually only one & it isn’t even always that viable. AND, if there is a connection…..that part of the team is sidelined for at least 9 months.
So, the male has to be hitting anything & everything that moves….
or at least moves slow enough for him to catch it w/ his pants down around his ankles.
Call it the “super-grenade-effect”: throw enough seed around as large an area as possible,,,
something is bound “to catch”.
Were this not the case, we probably wouldn’t have survived as a species.
But, that was at the “beginning” (then)….
this is NOW.
Of course our “superior” (over animal instinctual urges) brains enable us to control much of our [id](http://psychology.about.com/od/iindex/g/def_id.htm).: _“According to Sigmund Freud’s psychoanalytic theory of personality, the id is the personality component made up of unconscious psychic energy that works to satisfy basic urges, needs, and desires. The id operates based on the pleasure principle, which demands immediate gratification of needs.”_
_“The id is the only part of personality that is present at birth. Freud also suggested that this primitive component of personality existed completely within the unconscious. The id acts as the driving force behind personality. It not only strives to fulfill our most basic urges, many of which are tied directly to survival, **it also provides all of the energy necessary to drive personality.** ”_
But, w/ such a DRIVING FORCE…
aren’t we naively expecting the males to “control the uncontrollable”?
Okay….that’s a weeebit extreme.
Mostly because many men DO manage to do so.
But, as has been pointed out….even though Herculean, this effort alone isn’t enough to “guarantee” marital success. And just maybe, it is with this in mind that a man who has a “twinge” is able to rationalize that “cheating”—not being the ONLY marriage killer—really isn’t all that “bad”….what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her…it will make me happy & therefore be good for the marriage.
I think I pointed out earlier that it is only recently that women have had equal status in marriage. In prior “times”, the subordinate position they held precluded them from even giving a thought to the fact that their man was “gonna be a man”. One that was faithful was a treasure. One that wasn’t was at least admired for being “discrete”. Those that openly “reveled” garnered mixed honors. This is the case even today.
So…swingers.
So what?
Just like Gays being married,,,
how does married couples extending their sexual “boundaries” harm the “sanctity-of-marriage”?
If you support prostitution, do ya seriously think it will be ONLY single guys supporting the profession? Do ya really think that ALL women whose husbands make use of such a “service” will really care all that much? For many (older?) women…sex has become a chore; esp. if the husband has “excessive needs” (supply & demand situation here—w/ no particular value-norm established).
Swinging is merely a part of how a couple can deal w/ the sexual natures of their individual personalities.
The important thing—and the thing that strongly enriches the marriage—is that it is something actually done AS A COUPLE….ya know, ppl being together doing something of COMMON interest…..something like, say: square-dancing. lol
> Although, in terms of marriage and its breakdown, there are numerous ways to go astray, including Craigslist and Ashley Madison (which in my opinion is just an asshole website in its mission).Hmmmm….on the other hand—if one takes the “cheating” element out of it—it becomes something more along the lines of “non-prostitute” hook-ups that use the modern technology. Frankly, I’m really unable to believe that there are that many women wanting to hookup….at least FOR FREE. lol
Seriously, much like “massage parlors” or “escort services”….
a rose by any other name is…..
But, as odious as such a service might be….
if you support legalization of most recreational drugs…
the measure of the level of respect the “pusher” merits will probably be something that can be similarly applied to the “pusher” of pussy.

> *Originally posted by **[Draconavin](/forums/9/topics/338193?page=1#posts-7084456):***
>
> Usually when I use emoticons, I am being facetious.
> Take them with a grain of a salt.
No problem Draco, I wasn’t offended or anything.
Karma—the big problem I have with Ashley Madison is that it uses cheating on established relationships as a platform for hooking up, not just straight hooking up with fair game (as is the case with match.com and a lot of other websites). I would think if someone is looking for a lay, as the case may be, there are a lot of choices better than other people’s property with smaller potential for harm and fewer emotional entanglements.
I read an interview with the CEO/founder of Ashley Madison and it seemed kind of apologist for him, for lack of a better term. It almost tried to portray him a nice family guy who was reluctant to support his own website. Still, he made the website—how would he feel if he experienced the fruits of this particular labor/taste of his own medicine?
It almost makes me wish his wife would cheat on him. With his brother. And film it.