tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post2066391508045234243..comments2018-03-15T04:34:37.321-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Morality and the Absence of Free WillAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-42117979476529692002008-10-27T16:55:00.000-06:002008-10-27T16:55:00.000-06:00Thanks for the responses! Martino, I do agree tha...Thanks for the responses! Martino, I do agree that many aspects of our psychology are side effects or unintended consequences of our complex neurophysiology. Why did we evolve to enjoy sunsets? That would seem to confer no selective benefit. However, the apparent understanding that we can affect the world, and can choose between different options seems fundamental to consciousness. When a lizard runs from a predator he must believe that his running away will affect his survival. Obviously he can't deeply consider the nuances of this, but we, being so much more complex, can.Matt M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-66496220461582756992008-10-27T16:31:00.000-06:002008-10-27T16:31:00.000-06:00Becky Feelings can be real but the entailments can...Becky <BR/><BR/>Feelings can be real but the entailments can be mistaken. The idea of "free will" is such an entailment. One can only talk about free will/ the illusion of free will when one has the capacity to reason over as well as speculate upon entailments. The psychological experience of under-determined antecedents requiring deliberation over alternatives - rational or emotional, with or without time constraints etc. - are quite real but none of this entails some entity such as free will. Without such a concept you would still have the same deliberative experience and most likely come to the same decisions - unless one somehow and specifically inserts claimed knowledge of free will into one's deliberative process. <BR/><BR/>In practical terms we use the word to signify we were not coerced into our actions and in that sense, I think that is what Alonzo means, and it is entirely unproblematical.<BR/><BR/>I agree wiht Enaesz too, so consider this a complementary answer.<BR/><BR/>Matt M. I fail why the illusion of free will has a necessary evolutionary basis. Evolution did not need this for us to be able to deliberate. Other species have some form of deliberation without the capacity to conceptualize free will in any useful sense of that word. I think it is more likely an mistake in our cognitive faculties interacting with certain social beliefs - neither selected for or against.martinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-34187250281731477242008-10-27T11:07:00.000-06:002008-10-27T11:07:00.000-06:00Matt M. Thank you for responding. It seems like a ...Matt M. Thank you for responding. It seems like a plausible explanation for what I was asking. I find it interesting to understand the basis for impulses/beliefs and why they can be so difficult to act against - even when reason and logic would seem to suggest that they are false.Beckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969113480224473000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-89200429715268844542008-10-19T15:53:00.000-06:002008-10-19T15:53:00.000-06:00Do you think it's possible that a belief in free w...Do you think it's possible that a belief in free will has its origins in Natural Selection? Imagine an animal who ignores an approaching predator because he realizes he has no ability to affect future events. He wouldn't last very long. Those who believe in free will, although perhaps factually incorrect, will do better than those who don't. Evolution doesn't select "correct" or "better" traits, just those that will improve survival. A sense of free will may have evolved alongside increasing cognition. This might explain why this belief is so innate in all of us. Only after careful consideration do we realize this instinct is wrong. Your thoughts?Matt M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-78818799565782994782008-09-26T13:30:00.000-06:002008-09-26T13:30:00.000-06:00I found this post to be useful, thank you.I found this post to be useful, thank you.Harblnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-21599426093149688802008-08-19T12:54:00.000-06:002008-08-19T12:54:00.000-06:00Hello Becky. I've been out of town for a week, so ...Hello Becky. I've been out of town for a week, so I just now noticed this comment. Anyway, in my humble opinion it has been demonstrated on countless occassions that "feelings of" something are often worthless as evidence that something exists outside of the mind of the individual experiencing them (ie: feelings of being one with the universe, feelings of communicating with god, feelings of the superiority of your country/race/etc). While they are often strong motivators, they are bad at indicating something exists, and so rarely need to be explained when discussing things like free will. Just because people have a feeling of having free will doesn't mean that they had different beliefs and desires than they did when making that choice.Eneasznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-72695206256831141192008-08-14T10:46:00.000-06:002008-08-14T10:46:00.000-06:00How do you explain the "feeling" that you are "dec...How do you explain the "feeling" that you are "deciding" to take an action? The feeling that many people describe as 'free will'?Beckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969113480224473000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-66252206563066006562008-08-11T16:16:00.000-06:002008-08-11T16:16:00.000-06:00Well technically your (our) position would be semi...Well technically your (our) position would be semi-compatibilism. Anyway as far as <B>free will</B> is concerned I am an incompatibilist - free will and determinism are incompatible. <BR/><BR/>"According to compatibilists, we do have free will. They propound a sense of the word 'free' according to which free will is compatible with determinism, even though determinism is the view that the history of the universe is fixed in such a way that nothing can happen otherwise than it does because everything that happens is necessitated by what has already gone before...They believe that to have free will, to be a free agent, to be free in choice and action, is simply to be free from constraints of certain sorts. Freedom is a matter of not being physically or psychologically forced or compelled to do what one does." <A HREF="http://www.rep.routledge.com/article/V014SECT1" REL="nofollow">Routledge</A><BR/> however it is probably best to avoid all this terminology as it gets messy - see for example <A HREF="http://gfp.typepad.com/the_garden_of_forking_pat/2006/03/mapping_the_ter.html" REL="nofollow"> Garden of Forking Paths</A>martinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-19723359896195746302008-08-11T05:24:00.000-06:002008-08-11T05:24:00.000-06:00MartinoI have always taken the term 'compatibilism...<B>Martino</B><BR/><BR/>I have always taken the term 'compatibilism' to mean the thesis that moral responsibility is compatible with metaphysical determinism.<BR/><BR/>In that sense of the term, I am a compatibilist.<BR/><BR/>I honestly do not understand how you are intending to use the term here.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-48536183102470644782008-08-11T02:59:00.000-06:002008-08-11T02:59:00.000-06:00So I take it you are either no longer a compatibil...So I take it you are either no longer a compatibilist or still are and this is what you mean by compatibilism - that our actions are determined by our desires and beliefs? In a comment - one of the triggers for this post? - in another thread on this I stated that compatibilism is not needed either. <BR/><BR/>Again we can look at "free will speak" as we look at what I call "moral speak", both are useful shorthand linguistic tools we can choose to retain even as the original assumptions behind them have been shown to be invalid.martinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.com