Full tilt is a solid place to play. Pokerstars is another good site but i prefer full tilt though others might differ. The rake seems to be the same as any where else. As for suckouts every site ive played on has people complaining that its got the worst suckouts. No matter where you play there will be suckouts and if you cant handle it poker is not for you. Hope that helps and good luck.

The rake (at least for NL games) is the same on Full Tilt as PokerStars.

As for suck outs, FloridaGatorFan hit the nail on the head. You're gonna hear complaints about every site so I wouldn't let people talking in the chat influence where you play. Both sites are popular, safe for the time being and offer a variety of games so if you're still deciding between rooms I would let the software, graphics and menus push you one way or another.

1) PS had no cap/unlimited entrants in most tournaments. your odds of beating over 10,000 players is ridiculous.

2) suckouts. I've played poker over 10 years. in a few months on pokerstars, I saw more OMG WOW river suckouts (1 to 5 outers) on pokerstars than in 10 years of live play. its not that frequent on FTP.

3) FTP has almost every top poker pro as an endorser. if the other sites were respected by a pro, they would have at least 1 top poker pro as an endorsee.

4) on FTP you can study the LAST HAND history at your table and see what other players played.

1) PS had no cap/unlimited entrants in most tournaments. your odds of beating over 10,000 players is ridiculous.

2) suckouts. I've played poker over 10 years. in a few months on pokerstars, I saw more OMG WOW river suckouts (1 to 5 outers) on pokerstars than in 10 years of live play. its not that frequent on FTP.

3) FTP has almost every top poker pro as an endorser. if the other sites were respected by a pro, they would have at least 1 top poker pro as an endorsee.

4) on FTP you can study the LAST HAND history at your table and see what other players played.

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1. Stars has caps also

2. I'm guessing you saw a few more hands on stars than you did live

3. You don't think pros play at stars? You are quite oblivious

4. Umm you can do that on stars also

5. You are an idiot.. please stop giving suggestions when you have no idea what you are talking about

1) PS had no cap/unlimited entrants in most tournaments. your odds of beating over 10,000 players is ridiculous.

2) suckouts. I've played poker over 10 years. in a few months on pokerstars, I saw more OMG WOW river suckouts (1 to 5 outers) on pokerstars than in 10 years of live play. its not that frequent on FTP.

3) FTP has almost every top poker pro as an endorser. if the other sites were respected by a pro, they would have at least 1 top poker pro as an endorsee.

4) on FTP you can study the LAST HAND history at your table and see what other players played.

1) PS had no cap/unlimited entrants in most tournaments. your odds of beating over 10,000 players is ridiculous.

2) suckouts. I've played poker over 10 years. in a few months on pokerstars, I saw more OMG WOW river suckouts (1 to 5 outers) on pokerstars than in 10 years of live play. its not that frequent on FTP.

3) FTP has almost every top poker pro as an endorser. if the other sites were respected by a pro, they would have at least 1 top poker pro as an endorsee.

4) on FTP you can study the LAST HAND history at your table and see what other players played.

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1. Tournaments with 10,000 people are either .10 tourneys or the Sunday Million, either of which, yes, you should probably avoid. But if you go for a tournament with a realistic buy in then the fields aren't that big. Plus Stars has been adding more and more capped tourneys and there are SNGs that are 180 man, 90 man, 45 man, 36 man and 18 man if you're looking for fields that small.

3. How does anyone with any poker knowledge even make this statement?

http://www.pokerstars.com/team-pokerstars/

4. Stars has by far the best HH setup of any poker room. FTP makes you go through previous hands one by one, Stars lets you see everyone at once.

I've been playing with play chips here for a while there until just recently when i made a an actual deposit.

In my first game someone stated that ful tillt is notorious for sucks outs and the rake is too high.

IS this true? and if so are there any better sites to play on?

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This is the only place I play and I love it! It has a very nice interface and other then PokerStars, this is my favorite site to play at. I've recently just made $650.00 there so I wouldn't have invested money if I felt it had suck outs or the rake was to high.

Just remember everybody is going to have a different opinion though, comes down to a personal preference

5. You are an idiot.. please stop giving suggestions when you have no idea what you are talking about" - Vikefan86

1. Did you read the words "most tournaments"? And when I played there over a year ago, they didn't have many capped tournaments, now they have added way more capped tournaments now. (and I was talking about the scheduled Holdem tournaments, not the SNG's).

2. well duh! naturally online you'll see more hands. statistically still the OMG WOW 1-5 outer suckouts on PS were too frequent. I've seen way too many pre-flop favorites get rivered dogs on PStars than on FTP. also the TURNED nuts gets RIVERED way too much on PS. the cards on FTP fall a lot more naturally.

I see that PS does sponsor Barry Greenstein so congrats on that endorsement.

4. the LAST HAND on FTP layout is not the same as HAND HISTORY on PS. on FTP if I win the hand and the players muck on the river, I can see their cards even if they mucked. and if I missed a couple hands when I step away, I can return and visually see the winning hand with LAST HAND like a back button.

I see that PS does sponsor Barry Greenstein so congrats on that endorsement.

4. the LAST HAND on FTP layout is not the same as HAND HISTORY on PS. on FTP if I win the hand and the players muck on the river, I can see their cards even if they mucked. and if I missed a couple hands when I step away, I can return and visually see the winning hand with LAST HAND like a back button.

5. insults are generally a mirrored reflection of one's character.

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Again, I would imagine any of the pros you could name play at or have played at P*.. Just because FTP pays them to be sponsors doesn't mean they aren't going to go where the games are.. Hell Mr.Nike himself(Jordan) used Ping irons this week in the pro-am tourney he was in with Tiger..

Again, YOU CAN SEE THE CARDS YOUR OPPONENTS MUCKED ON P*.. Look at the previous hand, scroll down to the bottom, profit..

"Again, I would imagine any of the pros you could name play at or have played at P*.. Just because FTP pays them to be sponsors doesn't mean they aren't going to go where the games are.. Hell Mr.Nike himself(Jordan) used Ping irons this week in the pro-am tourney he was in with Tiger..

Again, YOU CAN SEE THE CARDS YOUR OPPONENTS MUCKED ON P*.. Look at the previous hand, scroll down to the bottom, profit..

OMG dids that mezn i'm teh idiit sicne i calt j00 oen?" - Vikefan86

Pathetically sad speculation. The top pros barely have time to play online, much less on a website they are NOT paid to play. You are sad if you think they have extra time to surf around other online websites. more than likely they have an EXCLUSIVE deal with FTP.

have you even seen the LAST HAND visual interface on FTP???? its not just NOTES!

Another thing I didn't like about PS is you can only rebuy 1000 FREE/PLAY chips only 3 times in 60 minutes. we're talking about free practice chips!

Pathetically sad speculation. The top pros barely have time to play online, much less on a website they are NOT paid to play. You are sad if you think they have extra time to surf around other online websites. more than likely they have an EXCLUSIVE deal with FTP.

have you even seen the LAST HAND visual interface on FTP???? its not just NOTES!

Another thing I didn't like about PS is you can only rebuy 1000 FREE/PLAY chips only 3 times in 60 minutes. we're talking about free practice chips!

please crawl back to your PS world and wallow in its mediocrity.

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It's obvious you are extremely ignorant when it comes to the online poker world..

the fact that you can only rebuy 1000 play chips 3 times an hour is the greatest thing to happen to play money.. I don't play play money because I'm older than 14 however I know that you won't stop kids at the play money tables going all in every hand but this at least cuts it down some..

I feel like my money is being held hostage I have yet to recive a refund
for $300 + dollars in entry fees .. I had in average stack in 2 high dollar
tourneys on a night og July 3rd then their system crashed and the wrote to say I would be refunded 2 weeks ago
but since then I have recived no refund and my MANY emails to them have been IGNORED

Because thier system crashed that does not give Full Tilt a right to
KEEP MY MONEY ... My emails are being ingnored I write
every day and have yet to recive a human reply OVER 15 emails IGNORED ....

Whats GOING ON ??? I am starting to get angry at the total lack of customer
service FULL TILT HAS NO HONOR it is for a reason that NO phone number is provided I love thier site but now that a problem has happened I have no trust in thier abillity
to provide customer statisfaction

I've never had trouble with Full Tilt. Its the site I play at most frequently, though I do like the fact that Stars has draw games. That's the one big difference between Stars and FTP that gets me.

Otherwise, they are both good poker rooms. It's a lot easier to find a specific game on Stars because they straight up have more people on the site. But FTP is still damn good.

I still haven't decided which room I want to lay my next deposit on.

Edit-

rohmy said:

Pathetically sad speculation. The top pros barely have time to play online, much less on a website they are NOT paid to play. You are sad if you think they have extra time to surf around other online websites. more than likely they have an EXCLUSIVE deal with FTP.

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You're an idiot.

1. There are plenty of pros that play on Stars. They just aren't highlighted as they are on FTP. And what's with the "paid to play" bit? I hope you don't mean a comission, because that's absolutely stupid. They get commissioned to wear FTP's hats during the WSOP. They only play online for bread, partner.

2. Most pros STRICTLY play online poker nowadays. Beside the fact that a lot of them have their own poker rooms, look at FTP- Hansen, Ivey, and Benyamine, and a handful of others are on the $200 Omaha tables pretty much every night. It's not like they all go out to a brick and mortar and play high stakes cash games on a daily basis.

You wonder why people don't like you... it's posts exactly like that one. It amazes me how quick you are to just insult someone if you don't agree with them. I'm not sure if I can even name the last time you have directed a post to another user without slipping in some clever insult. It's basically impossible to have any conversation with you whatsoever since you go on the defensive immediately.

In regards to FTP pros, they have contracts with FTP. Their relationship does not entail only wearing hats on TV. I'm not exactly sure if they are required to play ONLY on FTP, but I am sure that they must play a certain number of hours per period and do get paid salaries for working there. Not to mention the countless ads and promotional things they are a part of.

The very few you have mentioned, Ivey, Gus, Benyamine, actually play on a consistent basis. I don't even think Benyamine has a contract with FTP, and Ivey and Gus are the most degenerate of the bunch and the obvious minority. When was the last time you saw Chris Ferguson playing 200/400 NL or Jennifer Harman on the PLO tables? The only time I have seen some pros are at the low level games, mingling with the normal players and fulfilling their required hands.

As for strictly online... this is just flat out wrong. You could say that for the second tier pros like sbrugby and durrrr, but like I already mentioned, online does not even touch the amount of play the pros get in live. I very occasionally see Juanda, Lindgren, Cunningham and Matusow playing the big games. Even someone like Benyamine probably spends twice as much time in the casinos as he does on FTP.

Yea during the wsop theyve been playing $500/$1000 and $1000/$2000 Pot limit omaha and NL hold em mixed games and even Brian Townsend (SBrugby and others have come out to play it). Also, on a side note i think benyamine is now an affiliate with full tilt because his name never used to appear in red and now it does.

You wonder why people don't like you... it's posts exactly like that one. It amazes me how quick you are to just insult someone if you don't agree with them. I'm not sure if I can even name the last time you have directed a post to another user without slipping in some clever insult. It's basically impossible to have any conversation with you whatsoever since you go on the defensive immediately.

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And you always seem to find a way to bust on me about it, even when I might be correct.

crfreeman713 said:

In regards to FTP pros, they have contracts with FTP. Their relationship does not entail only wearing hats on TV. I'm not exactly sure if they are required to play ONLY on FTP, but I am sure that they must play a certain number of hours per period and do get paid salaries for working there. Not to mention the countless ads and promotional things they are a part of.

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I was just making a point. You didn't need to take my exact words literally. When I said "wearing FTP hats on the WSOP", I meant promotinal garbage and commercials. And either way, where are you getting your information? Please give me a link to either the FTP website or somewhere else that says exactly what you told me.

crfreeman713 said:

The very few you have mentioned, Ivey, Gus, Benyamine, actually play on a consistent basis. I don't even think Benyamine has a contract with FTP, and Ivey and Gus are the most degenerate of the bunch and the obvious minority. When was the last time you saw Chris Ferguson playing 200/400 NL or Jennifer Harman on the PLO tables? The only time I have seen some pros are at the low level games, mingling with the normal players and fulfilling their required hands.

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1. Degenerate? Please elaborate.

2. Harman and Ferguson are TOURNAMENT pros. Most pros are only famous from their tournament play; thats what you don't get. When pros want to play cash games, they USUALLY won't go to a b&m cardroom or casino. They'll sit down on one of several hundred poker web sites available to play.

crfreeman713 said:

As for strictly online... this is just flat out wrong. You could say that for the second tier pros like sbrugby and durrrr, but like I already mentioned, online does not even touch the amount of play the pros get in live. I very occasionally see Juanda, Lindgren, Cunningham and Matusow playing the big games. Even someone like Benyamine probably spends twice as much time in the casinos as he does on FTP.

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Do you ever hear of those pros playing high-stakes live cash games? Probably not, because like I said, they made their fame in torunaments, and you rarely see pros who are significantly good at both cash games and tourneys. That's why there is such a fine red line between the two types of players.

It's NOT flat out wrong. The high-stakes cash players play online a good amount of the time. There is, of course, the occasional b&m high-stakes cash game, but it's not an every night thing.

I wouldn't be so vindictive if you didn't accuse me of being wrong all the time. Sometimes you need to accept it when other people make good points. You can't always be right. Swallow your pride for once and be open-minded.

Does someone want to direct him to the big game in Bobby's Room that runs frequently? Blogs by "tournament pros" like Negreanu that detail the cash games he plays in Vegas? Brian Townsend's massive swings in the side games at this year's WSOP? Brandon Adams' PLO match against Farha? Not to mention High Stakes Poker. Does this game only go on for the cameras? The other 51 weeks of the year do Brunson, Greenstein, Elezra and others just go home and play on their computers?

The only legitimate "tournament pros" I can think of are Ferguson, Hellmuth and Seidel. Everyone single other pro spends more time, and makes much more money, playing in cash games. And nearly every TV pro is extremely competent in both cash and tournaments.

Does someone want to direct him to the big game in Bobby's Room that runs frequently? Blogs by "tournament pros" like Negreanu that detail the cash games he plays in Vegas? Brian Townsend's massive swings in the side games at this year's WSOP? Brandon Adams' PLO match against Farha? Not to mention High Stakes Poker. Does this game only go on for the cameras? The other 51 weeks of the year do Brunson, Greenstein, Elezra and others just go home and play on their computers?

The only legitimate "tournament pros" I can think of are Ferguson, Hellmuth and Seidel. Everyone single other pro spends more time, and makes much more money, playing in cash games. And nearly every TV pro is extremely competent in both cash and tournaments.

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You can not be this thick...

I don't know how else to explain it to you. You're hopeless. I'm just going to stop trying. It's not going to get through your head anyways.

There are a lot of opinionated people in this world, what makes you completely unbearable is how stubborn and difficult you insist on being. I don't think I've seen you ever have a discussion with another user in which you do anything but defend your every word, as opposed to actually attempting to learn something or trying to communicate with the other side at a more advanced level than petty insults. You speak with so much conviction, which is tragic because you very seldom have any idea what you're talking about.

Anyone else have any input?

Is there only an "occasional b&m high-stakes cash game?"

If Jennifer Harman wanted to take her chances in cash games, which apparently are foreign to her since she is a tournament player, would she "sit down on one of several hundred (LOL) poker web sites available to play?"

Are there recognizable pros over 21 that "STRICTLY play online poker?"

There are a lot of opinionated people in this world, what makes you completely unbearable is how stubborn and difficult you insist on being. I don't think I've seen you ever have a discussion with another user in which you do anything but defend your every word, as opposed to actually attempting to learn something or trying to communicate with the other side at a more advanced level than petty insults. You speak with so much conviction, which is tragic because you very seldom have any idea what you're talking about.

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Maybe if the people at this board hadn't flamed me and mocked me for being a novice poker player when I came here then I wouldn't be that way.

Sure, there was a time a couple years ago when I knew nothing about poker. But I've learned since and have made countless attempts at trying to contribute to the board without getting flamed.

LOL you had any two examples of you getting flamed and you choose those two?

You got flamed in the first post? Are you the most sensitive person ever? Just because you were not directly acknowledged and praised does not mean you're getting flamed. Post something more interesting and you'll get real responses.

As for the second one, where are you getting flamed here? People say they don't like capped games and that they require less play, which is a fact. Stop overreacting to everything.

In regards to poker ability, I'm glad to hear you think you've gotten better. It would be hard to go the other direction. What prove do you have though? You went from playing play money and micro stakes to not playing at all. I guess from the perspective of a losing player this would be an improvement.

In regards to poker ability, I'm glad to hear you think you've gotten better. It would be hard to go the other direction. What prove do you have though? You went from playing play money and micro stakes to not playing at all. I guess from the perspective of a losing player this would be an improvement.

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I didn't stop playing, I just had less time to play (have had less time to play lately).

I know I sound like such a loser, but I think I may have found my game, and thats H/L. I ALWAYS break whoever I play in either Stud or Omaha, online or in home cash games. I think the most profitable solution (and to finally be a winner) is to just stick to PL H/L $1 games until I can advance to higher stakes.

The reason I lost so much money playing online before is because I was playing Hold'em all the time, just because it's so popular and trendy to play. So many easy games to find (and everyone knows how to play it). But the truth is, I am more comfortable with H/L split. I can't tell you why; I just have a better understanding of it (maybe it was Sklansky's section in Super/System that did it).

First of all, I'm impressed with the maturity and poise in your response.

In regards to your poker ability. You say that hold'em is so trendy and soft, but that you busted playing in it...

As for H/L games, without having ever seen you play I am pretty sure you aren't as dominant as you think, especially if you're going to say you can break someone every time you play. I question how much experience you even have and how many winnings you have (since I assume you don't have a PT to track these games). Reading a SS chapter on each game is a very small start, but doesn't it seem odd you now think you can beat the game so handily? The games are very easy at the lower levels since most people don't have as much experience, but then again, it doesn't seem like you do either, so how much better could you possibly be?

Home games comparisons don't mean anything either. I could bust every one of my friends in a H/L game, but I also have the remind them every time what qualifies for the Low, so that doesn't say much.

I dont know if anyone has said this because I have no interest in reading all the posts. If you are playing at FTP you need to get rakeback (google it). I currently am receiving between $200-$700 a month in rakeback. I use rakerebate.net and they have been very good/legit. I can't stress the importance, if you play a lot of online poker, in making sure you get rakeback from your site. IMO, Paradise Poker and Party Poker were the best sites. They no longer take US players. I think Ultimate Bet has easy competition, but do not like the skins. Pokerstars is good for high limit short handed tables and the competition is weaker than FTP. FTP is great for 1 on 1 play. I have taken unusual repeated bad beats in shorthanded tournaments, and find it strange. I personally will not play tournaments there, but it could just be luck.

"Again, I would imagine any of the pros you could name play at or have played at P*.. Just because FTP pays them to be sponsors doesn't mean they aren't going to go where the games are.. Hell Mr.Nike himself(Jordan) used Ping irons this week in the pro-am tourney he was in with Tiger..

Again, YOU CAN SEE THE CARDS YOUR OPPONENTS MUCKED ON P*.. Look at the previous hand, scroll down to the bottom, profit..

OMG dids that mezn i'm teh idiit sicne i calt j00 oen?" - Vikefan86

Pathetically sad speculation. The top pros barely have time to play online, much less on a website they are NOT paid to play. You are sad if you think they have extra time to surf around other online websites. more than likely they have an EXCLUSIVE deal with FTP.

have you even seen the LAST HAND visual interface on FTP???? its not just NOTES!

Another thing I didn't like about PS is you can only rebuy 1000 FREE/PLAY chips only 3 times in 60 minutes. we're talking about free practice chips!

please crawl back to your PS world and wallow in its mediocrity.

Pros dont have time to play on-line. Are you an idiot???? Most "pros", including the ones you see on tv, spend a minimum of 20 hrs/wk online. Some spend much more. And of course they play on different sites under different screennames.

if you are a serious side game player you are missing out on so much ev not having rakeback. Check out cakepoker.com and absolute. UB doesn't get enough traffic and they only have 7 worthwile tourneys a week. f ub.

btw, the ft pros have a mandated amount of time they have to play to satisfy contract incentives/obligations. They do play the games as part of their "schedule", b/c the games are so +ev (so they think anyway). Also, ftp is like a liquid place for pros, as they have instant access to any amount they need/require. Hence they play there more often.

Yes, Full Tilt poker is a bad place to play. For one thing, it's juiced. Just too many BIG hands come up way too often, You don't see that many straights, flushes and full houses when playing in an honest game.

Here's a few things to look out for... If you (or another player) are dealt a pocket pair, the flop will usually, but not always, also contain a pair. More often than not the pocket pair will get beat.

Let's say you sit out most of a 9 person $250 free money tourney. You are dealt pocket aces or pocket kings. You decide to jump back in with an All-In. If another player calls, you WILL lose. The other player will get a straight or a flush or something that beats you. I guess they don't like people who sit out only start playing near the end of the tourney. Try it and you'll see for yourself.

Interestingly, until a few weeks ago (before a software upgrade), it used to be just the opposite. You could sit out until you were almost out of money, and go All-In with any junk cards, and you would almost always win. You could do it twice. It seems to be programmed to favor the sit-out short stack before the recent software upgrade.
Get into some 9 person $250 free money tourneys and just watch the goofy huge hands that come up time after time. Compare those stats with what you see in a "real" game.

At one time Full Tilt had the slogan "programmed for excitement." I guess a "juiced" game is what they meant by that. I sit on Full Tilt a lot, just gathering stats and watching for patterns. I also play a lot. I average one royal flush per week on Full Tilt. Now, that's what I call excitement. Funny, I've never had one in the real world of poker.

Don't use Full Tilt to practice your real game. It will completely ruin it. Just my opinion, but I would never play for cash on Full Tilt. I would have to be assured of a true random shuffle before I put my money down, and the shuffle at Full Tilt is anything but random.

Don't take my word. Check it out yourself. If you open your eyes and pay attention, you'll quickly see what I'm talking about.

I do miss the Full Tilt of old before they programmed it for "excitement" (about a year ago).

Yes, Full Tilt poker is a bad place to play. For one thing, it's juiced. Just too many BIG hands come up way too often, You don't see that many straights, flushes and full houses when playing in an honest game.

Here's a few things to look out for... If you (or another player) are dealt a pocket pair, the flop will usually, but not always, also contain a pair. More often than not the pocket pair will get beat.

Let's say you sit out most of a 9 person $250 free money tourney. You are dealt pocket aces or pocket kings. You decide to jump back in with an All-In. If another player calls, you WILL lose. The other player will get a straight or a flush or something that beats you. I guess they don't like people who sit out only start playing near the end of the tourney. Try it and you'll see for yourself.

Interestingly, until a few weeks ago (before a software upgrade), it used to be just the opposite. You could sit out until you were almost out of money, and go All-In with any junk cards, and you would almost always win. You could do it twice. It seems to be programmed to favor the sit-out short stack before the recent software upgrade.
Get into some 9 person $250 free money tourneys and just watch the goofy huge hands that come up time after time. Compare those stats with what you see in a "real" game.

At one time Full Tilt had the slogan "programmed for excitement." I guess a "juiced" game is what they meant by that. I sit on Full Tilt a lot, just gathering stats and watching for patterns. I also play a lot. I average one royal flush per week on Full Tilt. Now, that's what I call excitement. Funny, I've never had one in the real world of poker.

Don't use Full Tilt to practice your real game. It will completely ruin it. Just my opinion, but I would never play for cash on Full Tilt. I would have to be assured of a true random shuffle before I put my money down, and the shuffle at Full Tilt is anything but random.

Don't take my word. Check it out yourself. If you open your eyes and pay attention, you'll quickly see what I'm talking about.

I do miss the Full Tilt of old before they programmed it for "excitement" (about a year ago).