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SS routinely kills off regularly souls in the R city area to balance souls Paul

I hear that POW. Soul Society's primary reasons for existing is to Balance souls and keep the Universe from crashing (or something like that, but as far as Shinigamis I have trouble thinking they would routinely convert shinigamis to Zanpakutous. I am not even convinced that Ouetsu's comments actually interpret to mean that, besides this page implies that shinigamis who die become humans.

If they remain in Soul Society as Zanpakutous, then that would upset the balance in favour of Soul Society, I suppose requiring more Rukongais killed in exchange. I guess then it comes down to what Ouetsu was really saying..I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

Ahhh so I was right and Aizen was creating Asauchi and Whitey was an example of one. Aizen just adopts everyone's genius inventions doesn't he. Urahara's Hogyoku, this guy's Asauchi. Wonder what other inventions he's appropriating for his schemes...

So if I interpreted the chapter properly, Quincies descend from Shinigami- well, a shinigami. So when Hollows influence the human world, the result will be fullbringers. When shinigami influence the human world, the result or one of possible results, is quincies? I wonder where Orihime fits into this. She seems to be the only character that dodges classification.

Now onto a shitload of questions this chapter has brought to my attention:

If Ichigo and his father share Zangetsu, is Ichigo's bloodline the actual bloodline of Bach? Does this mean Bach is a Shiba clansman? What significance is the Shiba clan to SS, or all royal families for that matter?

Assuming he is a shinigami, why would he want to create quincies? He knows that their existence would threaten the stability of Soul Society. What does this tell you about his ambition?

Considering the above, this is the most disturbing part. If Bach is both a Shiba and the father(spiritually at least) of all quincy, does that mean Ichigo is result of some type of spiritually incestuous relationship!?

I have a lot more questions but I'm gonna browse the thread first to see if they were already asked and I think this chapter has given me some ideas for a thread.

Bach is linked to Ichigo's Mother, Orihime seems to function as a Fullbring but using shinigami powers instead of hollows. It make sense if you thing about as Hollows learn Shinigami powers and vice-versa.... It also seemed that Vizards were learning to channel Quincy powers and vice-versa

I go back on that "Asauchi are made of Shinigami souls" thing. If we are talking about morals/ethics of such a decision. Then i fully agree with Zero. (and this is why i originally said it could be the case). SS used to be a very vile place pre - Gotei 13 and we know that at that time, Shinigami already possesed Zanpaktou's and Genryusai already had Bankai. So 1000+ years ago Oetsu was already part of the Squad Zero, and busy making Asauchi's. At that time, i imagine, repurpousing the corpses of dead shinigami into weapons for the living Shinigami, would be considered something of an awesome invention.

Having said that, the Manga Panda translation says: They just happen to have a similar compositon. Though, this was most likely, Aizen's intention all along. Ergo it's no coinsidence.

Perhaps more importantly, it doesn't make much practical sense, for every Shinigami that leaves the academy, you'd need a few corpses, that don't. That's pretty harsh, and almost deafinetly not true. If there are a few thousand living Shinigami, how many had to die? So i'm with you, it's likely not true. And as you said, balance is also a problem here.

@Zero

I ommited some of these things because i didn't want to write a freaking bible .

As for point 2. I'm quite confident that what Aizen meant, was not the battle with Uryu specificaly, but what happened during it. Ichigo momentarily accesed his actual Shinigami powers (Not Rukias). This is what Ishida refered to as Opening a huge water tap, that was closed at all times. I'm sure that if Ishida didnt intervene, Rukia's powers woud have been destroyed, but Ichigo would otherwise be unharmed. Still, they managed to "close the tap".

I hear that POW. Soul Society's primary reasons for existing is to Balance souls and keep the Universe from crashing (or something like that, but as far as Shinigamis I have trouble thinking they would routinely convert shinigamis to Zanpakutous. I am not even convinced that Ouetsu's comments actually interpret to mean that, besides this page implies that shinigamis who die become humans.

If they remain in Soul Society as Zanpakutous, then that would upset the balance in favour of Soul Society, I suppose requiring more Rukongais killed in exchange. I guess then it comes down to what Ouetsu was really saying..I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

In the same sense as the Hollows eating each other doesn't offset the balance by doing that. The energy doesn't disappear, (indifference to what happens with Souls destroyed by Quincy) it is transfered into another form (in the first place, when they are alive they don't offset the balance, so as long as the energy is transfered, it doesn't matter to what form, the problem lies when it completely disappears, which would force Shinigami to make disappear something on the other side as well). Eventually, the Zanpakutou also go away with their partner Shinigami, so they end up in the living world eventually.

The page you posted doesn't say anything about what happens to Shinigami, but what happens to normal souls.

Beside, I only mentioned that it would make some sense if he used the dead Shinigami, but it's also possible that he is simply using portions of every Shinigami. Maybe at the moment of graduation, they pay for the tuition with a portion of their own souls.

Also, Zanpakutou being made from Shinigami Souls, would also explain how it is that such a strong bond can exist between Shinigami and a Zanpakutou. This makes the relationship between Shinigai and Zanpakutou even deeper.

I'm wondering about how it is when there is a World War going on in the human world. Do they then deploy most of their Shinigami into the Human World in order to transfer souls, especially seeing as regrets are the most likely to be born at time of war ?

Ahhh so I was right and Aizen was creating Asauchi and Whitey was an example of one. Aizen just adopts everyone's genius inventions doesn't he. Urahara's Hogyoku, this guy's Asauchi. Wonder what other inventions he's appropriating for his schemes...

So if I interpreted the chapter properly, Quincies descend from Shinigami- well, a shinigami. So when Hollows influence the human world, the result will be fullbringers. When shinigami influence the human world, the result or one of possible results, is quincies? I wonder where Orihime fits into this. She seems to be the only character that dodges classification.

Now onto a shitload of questions this chapter has brought to my attention:

If Ichigo and his father share Zangetsu, is Ichigo's bloodline the actual bloodline of Bach? Does this mean Bach is a Shiba clansman? What significance is the Shiba clan to SS, or all royal families for that matter?

Assuming he is a shinigami, why would he want to create quincies? He knows that their existence would threaten the stability of Soul Society. What does this tell you about his ambition?

Considering the above, this is the most disturbing part. If Bach is both a Shiba and the father(spiritually at least) of all quincy, does that mean Ichigo is result of some type of spiritually incestuous relationship!?

I have a lot more questions but I'm gonna browse the thread first to see if they were already asked and I think this chapter has given me some ideas for a thread.

i doubt he was creating asauchi i believe he was indeed still trying to create a being that will surpass that of shinigami + hollow

He Who Speaks Without An Attentive Ear Is Mute.

Originally Posted by halaros536
shut up you weakling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are just angry because i didnt let you became my SERVANT!!!!!! but icould not accept that because you are too weak to be my servant sorry

Your perceptions are quite valid and compatible with Bleachverse precedents, so I acknowledge their possibility. Where I defer is perhaps that my perception of Kubo's Intent, his "drift", his overall theme for Bleach lead me to be disinclined.

I don't want to come off sounding like NO_F*@*#ING_WAY!. I do Enjoy the thoughtfulness and intelligence that is reflected in your posts as well as from other MS forumites. (That's why MS is da best)

Keep the thoughts and Ideas coming, and lets debate until we're Blue.

About the Soul Balance, I suppose that the small (relatively) number of dead Shinigamis converted to Zanpakutous would not overall harm the balance, although I still think the Souls in the link imply ALL souls, since all souls should be part of the balance.

Speaking of Dead Shinigamis, Note that Yamaji's Body was never found...Could Ouetsu (Body Snatcher Extraordinaire) have made off with him, won't it be a blast if The New and Improved ZANGETSU kun was Yammaji? OOOH Scary!

Last edited by paulbee; 06-06-2013 at 03:29 PM.

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

Geez guys, thats what I enjoy most of these forums, you guys make some awesome theories, and explanations xD good job guys. Im not so much like that (.w. sad story) but the only thing Ill say is that it does bother me that he train Bankai and all with Fake-Zangetsu wich was still called Zangetsu by Whitey, maybe mocking him, knowing the truth.

Also does this mean we will see Ichigos bankai change? hes been using a "fake" bankai until now I assume.

Man... I do love Ichigos backstory, and he is the main character, but Im sick of Gotei 13 failing, and it was alright with him being captain level, cause some were still obviously stronger, and he got to OP levels with that training although it basically vanished, and if all that was with fake zanpakuto, and fake bankai... Imagine how overpowered his real one will be. I know this is true with most shonen jump manga main characters, but Bleach has so many awesome characters that it sucks how they always seem to diminish to epic proportions for him to be the only shining star xD I mean I get it, he definitely has to be the one to beat the big baddie, but
has Kenpachi, Byakuya, Toshiro, Unohana (who we still dont know about) Genryusai dono (whos dead now :C ) and all those epic characters that always seem to be the damsel in distress, they always need his help, Kubo should give them some credibility. /rant

^ Don't worry, they will still have their moment to shine, there are still many Quincys to cut apart. The next battles might look like this:

- Zaraki Kenpachi/Ichigo Vs Hashvald - this might be pretty awesome, especially after the revelation that Old Man Z is Ichigo's Quincy Power and the fact that Hashvald's name means something along "Slashing Woods" might be hinting at his power might, which might be similar to what Old Man Z used to train Ichigo's Bankai, you know deploying a field of swords, the Slash Woods (maybe he is "W" for Woodchopper :p) and let's face it, against the current Kenpachi, he will need that infinity number of swords to battle him;

- Kurosaki Ichigo vs Yhwach Juhaabach - eventually it will come to this;

- Kurosaki Ichigo vs Ishida Uryu - yeah, it's going to be a rematch, or so I hope so ;

- Kurotsuchi's Aberration vs Puppeteer Quincy - after what he did in his lab and to his assistance, he better be prepared for some mayor ownage;

- Soi Fon vs Helmet Quincy - well this might not be so awesome though , probably something along the lines of rocket luncher vs thunder shots ;

- Rukia vs Whoever-she-was-facing - ...;

- Abarai Renji vs Mohawk Quincy - they seem to be similar to each other, plus Mohawk Quincy is the only known from the Quincy (beside Yhwach) to survive an attack from Yamamoto's Shikai (Spear Quincy died, I'm not sure about As Nodt and the Nanana guy), so this power up will be needed to face him;