Sorry to have been away so long (though it's only been a day). My problem was that I had SO many CDs with 2.12 test runs on my video cards (there were more than a dozen), and then I added more with 2.13beta test runs, that I couldn't tell which ones were which any more and though I kept notes, I just couldn't go on with what I had been doing. So, I started with a whole new group of CDs with freshly burned ISO's so I could sort things out.

On my 9500-based computer, I again (and again) installed 3DCC, doing steps #1, then #3, then #2, and I used the r300 driver. I had to do it again and again since I would get nutty multisession total blackout's when I tried to reboot after installing the r300 driver (but even after that worked, I'd still get total blackout's just doing other things too -- which is SO frustrating since everything that was done has to be repeated repeatedly since nothing is saved when I click on reboot and everything just goes totally blank and black with nothing further happening). Anyway, frustration aside (yeah, sure!), I got similar results in both 2.12 and 2.13beta on some things when things did happen successfully (but I don't mean I got the results I wanted here). I did some 2.12 and 2.13beta tests on both my 9500 and 8500-based computers today. Right now I'm in 2.12 with the r300 driver and want to start responding to some of the questions that were posed.

When I entered "xmessage -v" I got a box with a "-v" in it and an okay button. I confirmed the "No such file or directory" to the ".gtkrc" in the root folder with uxplor, and indeed, there's no such thing there. To confirm I typed it correctly, you asked me to type "LS" as the command but in lower case, correct?...and there's a dot in front of the "gtkrc*" correct?

Since I'm afraid of instability problems (I've had them all day in both 2.12 and 2.13beta AND on both computers, and it's evening here now), so I'm going to post this that I have written so far, and I'll come back to tempestuous' posting, and then back to Mark's posting which was done after that, and then finally with some other stuff (but I might poop-out energetically and need to finish some of this tomorrow morning, since I've been at this since this morning -- so stay tuned if I don't get through all these itemized responses until a bit later). I've been at this testing stuff for more than 8 hours already today, and, yikes, I'm getting tired (not lacking in enthusiasm, just lacking in energy)!

Up until now, I've been using the r300 video driver and reporting results on my 9500-based computer.

I'll have to hold the results on the ATI-fglrx-8.28.8 driver on 2.12 and on 2.13beta until tomorrow morning because I'm just too pooped to pop, but I'll preview the results as saying that I got dis-similar outcomes (which surprised me) -- AND I'm talking about both versions of Puppy on both my 9500-based computer and ALSO my 8500-based computer (I've been busy)!

Unknown symbols usually relates to module version dependency mis-matches.
OR it can be bad re-compiles of modules only (vs full kernel re-compiling)

If still having problems - try downloading kernel source (match the Puppy version number)
Then try reinstalling ATI proprietary drivers as per their recommendations for individual chipsets.
Use ATI instructions for configuring all -

User supplied Puppy wizards cannot cover all hardware variations
Esp if the packager didn't have access to the hardware to test all before uploading.
When additional enhancements (3d accell etc) are not needed - "generic" Vesa modelines work great.

For your expressed wants - you may need to bite_the_ bullet & really get into the inners for your own systems.
Do not expect one Cfg will work for all hardware.
Nice if it does - seldom are we are so lucky ?

The AGP support should be Cfg'd into supplied kernel image -
Proprietary AGP settings/driver MAY be used - one or the other not both.
AGP support should NOT be modularized - as such any (kmod) insmod or probe commands will fail & a lsmod will not (cannot) find.

This has been noted & posted B4

PCI & newer PCI express cards do not use AGP specs.
When AGP card cannot use BIOS settings - it is supposed to default back to old PCI standards.
See the kernel makefile options & help menus for usage .
Google AGP

Code:

CONFIG_AGP=y
# CONFIG_AGP_ALI is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_ATI is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_AMD is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_AMD64 is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_INTEL is not set

# CONFIG_AGP_NVIDIA is not set <--NOTE - using Nvidia proprietary support

# CONFIG_AGP_SIS is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_SWORKS is not set
CONFIG_AGP_VIA=y
# CONFIG_AGP_EFFICEON is not set
CONFIG_DRM=y

FRAME BUFFER OPTIONS:

Code:

# Graphics support
#
CONFIG_FB=y
CONFIG_FB_CFB_FILLRECT=m
CONFIG_FB_CFB_COPYAREA=m
CONFIG_FB_CFB_IMAGEBLIT=m
# CONFIG_FB_MACMODES is not set
CONFIG_FB_MODE_HELPERS=y
# CONFIG_FB_TILEBLITTING is not set
# CONFIG_FB_CIRRUS is not set
# CONFIG_FB_PM2 is not set
# CONFIG_FB_CYBER2000 is not set
# CONFIG_FB_ARC is not set
# CONFIG_FB_ASILIANT is not set
# CONFIG_FB_IMSTT is not set
# CONFIG_FB_VGA16 is not set
CONFIG_FB_VESA=m
# CONFIG_FB_VESA_STD is not set
CONFIG_FB_VESA_TNG=y
CONFIG_FB_VESA_DEFAULT_MODE="640x480@60"
CONFIG_VIDEO_SELECT=y
# CONFIG_FB_HGA is not set
# CONFIG_FB_S1D13XXX is not set

CONFIG_FB_NVIDIA_I2C=y
# CONFIG_FB_RIVA is not set
# CONFIG_FB_I810 is not set
# CONFIG_FB_INTEL is not set
# CONFIG_FB_MATROX is not set
# CONFIG_FB_RADEON_OLD is not set
# CONFIG_FB_RADEON is not set
# CONFIG_FB_ATY128 is not set
# CONFIG_FB_ATY is not set
# CONFIG_FB_SAVAGE is not set
# CONFIG_FB_SIS is not set
# CONFIG_FB_NEOMAGIC is not set
~
~
# CONFIG_FB_VIRTUAL is not set

XOrg or XFree - do not have own drivers -Those are X-server data files for any GUI Apps/tools .
They use generic 2d Vesa standards & generic drivers unless proprietary drivers are installed.
3d & other capabilities are enabled only if enhanced driver support is added via proprietary drivers.
DRI - DRM - GLX are Req'd for additional benefits
Dri is not used for Nvidia proprietary kernel GLX wrappers
Mesa is a generic standard

The separate or included Puppy (iso versions) zdr drivers are extras
If AGP support is compiled into kernel (modprobe agp) can not work (unless modprobe is now a Puppy script instead of the command)
= AGP will not be a module.

Code:

# modprobe agp
FATAL: Module agp not found.

= It was not modularized

Code:

~ # dmesg |grep agp
Linux agpgart interface v0.101 (c) Dave Jones

GENERIC makefile AGP support should be compiled in
Specific card support should NOT - as the frame buffer options - some MAY (and already have - refer to other posts) cause hardware conflicts .
Makefile specific card support is OK - IF it does not conflict to later added support
That is up to user - often requires kernel sources for needed headers. (wrapper install run shell probes for them)

If bootup procedes - and text mode available if/when desktop Cfg fails > Post_install edits may be used.
Otherwise - the user is out of luck - there is then no way to add or
correct initrd support unless a re-master is done.
AFAIK (tried) It cannot be accomplished in (puppy pfix=rdsh mode)

withasong, it seems you downloaded the small version of Puppy, that does not include zdrv_212.sfs.
This addon includes "agpgart", that is needed by the free drivers for agp-graficscards.
Please download and save it in /mnt/home:
http://puptrix.org/isos/Puppylinux-official/2.12/zdrv_212.sfs

Then reboot, and type:
modprobe agpgart

If you get no errors, the 3DCC might work now with the rxx drivers.
If you still get errors, please report them again.

###########

Concerning your problem with the Ati-dotpup not overwriting files, I have still no idea what could be the reason, but I will create a workaround (alien package) tomorrow.
At moment my jaw hurts too much.

wait... please try this:
http://dotpups.de/dotpups/System_Utilities/xdialog-gtk2.pup
This replaces xdialog with a different version, what might fix this issue.

Thanks Mark, tempestuous, and Gn2 for all your great help thus far. You've been SO patient and helpful!

Last night as I was about to fall asleep, I had a thought that almost work me up (but not quite, but I did remember when I got up): I wondered what my BIOS settings are on the computer with the 9500 Pro ATI Radeon video card.

This morning, first thing, I checked (and it was in an area of my BIOS on my 9500-based computer that I had just never needed to check before). I found that the "Primary Graphics Adapter" was set to PCI (tuh duh!, I thought, this is the problem why I keep seeing my AGP board sometimes listed as PCI); so I set it to AGP, saved the setting, and rebooted with a Puppy 2.12 that I had last used (BTW, every version of 2.12 and 2.13beta that I have been using for some time is the zdrv ISO's consistently).

I found no change on the multisession I had used with the previous BIOS setting (rats!), so I figured that I probably needed to reinstall everything with the new BIOS settings in order to get any difference in the installed results, so I burned two fresh ISO 2.12's (one for r300 and one for ATI-fglrx) and two 2.13beta's (one for r300 and one for ATI-fglrx also). Again, these ISO's are all zdrv versions of Puppy! It's taken me over 4 hours to try out all the permutations to just to get to the results below (and I still keep getting reboot blackout's which means nothing gets saved from my session just run, which didn't help me timewise at all!):

9500-based Computer:

Bad news related to DRI: On all versions (2.12 and 2.13beta with either r300 or ATI-fglrx), DRI on the 3D demo is still NOT active and I still get 14.29 fps uniformly.

Bad news with r300: MPlayer plays avi's, mpg's, etc., with NO video display but the sound is fine. gXine starts to play DVDs with sound with NO video display too. Again, r300 displays NO video in either player, but the sound is just great.

Bad news with ATI-fglrx and MPlayer: I get "Error opening/initializing the selected video-out (-vo) device" for all avi's, mpg's and DVDs in both 2.12 and 2.13beta uniformly with MPlayer in GUI mode. Again, uniform "Error..." with no play attempted in MPlayer no matter what video format I try with ATI-fglrx as the driver.

Good news with ATI-fglrx and gXine: On both 2.12 and 2.13beta, gXine now plays DVDs with video and sound! This is a positive change since I reset the BIOS from PCI to AGP for the Primary Graphics Adapter! This is the first time I have seen video with my 9500 in Puppy!

More about MPlayer with ATI-fglrx: I've been using the Unichrome version of MPlayer ever since Mark first told me about it, and on one of the last installs (gee, I've installed this 20 or more times now), I actually read the pop-up thing that I thought was licensing stuff; so I decided to try the non-GUI approach with the ATI-fglrx driver that is now playing DVDs in gXine but on MPlayer instead. The pop-up says to play DVDs in MPlayer with this command line:

Gee, the error line near the bottom is what I've got uniformly in the GUI too for some time now, and I get it in the command line version too. However, there's some kind of interesting stuff that seems disabled near the top of the listing, but I don't know if it applies to videos (that's why I'm showing it in this posting). I checked the config and gui.config files and see that both have "xv" like tempestuous suggested; so I'm not sure why avi's, mpg's, and DVDs don't play in MPlayer even though they do now play in gXine. Hmm...I just don't know on this, but thought I'd report it.

8500-Based Computer:

I know I said this before, but I want to say it here again: I tried the r200 driver on my 8500, since the r200 is appropriate for it, but all I got was no display at all in Puppy with the r200 (a totally blank desktop, even with repeated reboots), until I stepped back to a multisession before I installed the r200 (then the desktop reappeared). I wonder why the r200 won't work with my 8500 AIW?

So, on my 8500, I tried the ATI-fglrx (since it had positive results with gXine on my 9500) and found DRI was now ENABLED in the 3D demo on my 8500! I got 50 fps this time! That's another improvement !

BTW, on my 8500, MPlayer plays avi's, mpg's, and DVDs with the standard video setup that is configured when Puppy 2.12 and 2.13beta are both first installed (I don't know how this compares to r200 or r300 or ATI-fglrx). This is SUCH a contrast to my 9500 computer (I just haven't had the time to experiment with my 9600 computer, my 3rd computer, since I've been spending SO much time on my troubled 9500 computer, but as I remember, my 9600 has no trouble just like my 8500 computer with MPlayer playing everything too)!

Some Remaining Issues:

Why doesn't MPlayer play videos on my 9500-based computer when MPlayer plays videos in all formats on my 8500?...AND why doesn't MPlayer play DVDs when gXine plays them with the ATI-fglrx driver on my 9500?

Why is the video display slightly degraded with my 9500 in gXine with the ATI-fglrx driver over what I get in Windows? I switched to Windows and played the same DVDs I played with gXine since it started working, and the display in Windows is so wonderfully fine-pitched and movements have no horizontal-line after-images or jerkiness with my 9500. I know it's got to be driver related. It's certainly not a Linux problem, because on my older video card, my 8500 (which is SO much older than my 9500), Puppy Linux shows great videos with BOTH gXine AND MPlayer (nearly as good as Windows).

I've often wondered what is the default graphics standard in Puppy and how does it compare to the options in 3DCC if I've not installed 3DCC or any of the drivers in it? Is it like the r300 or ATI-fglrx, or what?

Why is DRI still NOT active no matter what BIOS settings or video driver I use on my 9500-based computer?

Now that I've got my AGP BIOS'd right, are there any tests I should re-run?

PS: Mark, the overwriting problem only occurred in 2.13beta with the ATI-fglrx driver when my BIOS was set to PCI instead of AGP. I repeatedly tested this yesterday with careful note-taking when my BIOS was mismatched to my AGP card (but I didn't know it was mismatched at that point) and in 2.12 the overwriting problem didn't happen, but in 2.13beta it did happen repeatedly. Now, today, ATI-fglrx overwrites files in 2.13beta with the right BIOS setting without self-canceling. Gee, did 24 hours go by; it's almost time for dinner and a movie again...

PPS: Mark, New Castle, CaliforniaLast edited by withasong on Sat 30 Dec 2006, 17:49; edited 1 time in total

Up to you - but it is suggested:
Work on ONE system at a time - get each configured correctly - do not confuse/mix issues to varied hardware.
As to this thread > It is now so mixed up WITH wrong uploads, failed compiles, missing dependencies .....no hardware to test
3d - but for for ATI only ?

Including & mixing up old generic 2d drivers, Mesa - to varied Radeon. Mach. Rage etal chipsets ....
versus 3d which it was supposed to enable - or why not just use generic drivers & VESA standards.

The sure way - which could have been done in less time -
Download kernel sources, install to either default /usr/src/linux <--symlink to linux_version_xx
OR create a working directory anywhere in path (run to check path)

Code:

env

Download recomended ATI driver for specific chipset.
Run ATI installer
DRI must be used for ATI
See your /etc/X11/xorg.conf (settings)

That's good news.
Now that your bios is in a better state, for both your 8500 and 9500 setups I would still like to know if the agpgart module has successfully loaded (and also the xxx-agp module). During the development of the first Puppy2 version, Mark and Barry worked hard to get these modules to load automatically at boot up.
Run "lsmod" to find out. If it's not listed, you need to fix this.

Sorry to have to ask this question, but during boot up, you chose Xorg, not Xvesa, right?
I wonder if your Xorg driver is falling back to the generic "vesa" (not Xvesa) particularly with your 9500. This would explain the modest performance, and output problems with MPlayer.
What is listed in Section "Device" > Driver in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?

withasong wrote:

The pop-up says to play DVDs in MPlayer with this command line:
mplayer dvd://1 -vo xvmc -vc ffmpeg12mc -fs

Well, I wrote that popup. If you read it more carefully, you will see that it only applies to graphics cards which support "xvmc" video output. ATi cards are not compatible with this output type.
There is a detailed thread on this subject http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=13216

I didn't notice agpgart in the list from the lsmod, besides the modprobe says it's not found anyway (but I wanted to provide what I found). You told me I would need to fix this as though I know how to do such a thing, yet I don't think I know how to fix such a problem yet (I'd like to say "Yeah, I know what to do" -- but I don't). If it's easy to say how to fix it, I'd love to know; but if it's not easy, I'll understand if I get no feedback.

Yes, during the original install of Puppy, I certainly did choose the Xorg configuation, but now that I have installed the ATI-fglrx that is part of 3DCC, I see "vesa" listed as my driver in the Graficsdriver's panel of 3DCC (whereas I usually see "ati" before I install any drivers in 3DCC). On all 3 of my computers, I always see "vesa" as a result of the ATI-fglrx installation within the 3DCC driver section.

You ask "what is listed in Section "Device" > Driver in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file", and I see two sections marked as Device, so here's what I get from near the end of the first Device through the following Device (they both contain some interesting looking stuff to me):

I note with puzzlement that the BusID still says PCI in the first Device section above, though I rechecked my BIOS setting before I booted up today and it is still set from yesterday as AGP, which is the state I used to make the current installation with the 3DCC device driver it says is installed in the second Device section above. Again, the current installation was done after I set my BIOS to AGP! Since BIOS is absolutely set to AGP now, I don't understand the persistence of PCI in these reports (but it's got to be part of what is a problem here in Linux -- but not Windows). I've done the BIOS, I've checked to be sure I'm in an AGP slot (and yup, the card can't possibly fit in a PCI slot because it's totally shaped differently), and I'm open to any suggestions here.

About the popup you wrote, please don't take offense if I don't understand the terms I read since I'm still new to Linux lingo. A careful reading, as you suggest, doesn't benefit me if I don't know what things mean; it just makes me feel more stupid and not informed. However, I did remember you saying to me that I must be sure to use "xv", and when I read " XvMC support for VIA Unichrome graphics" is what this version of the Unichome MPlayer was setup for according to the popup, I thought it might be my case (not knowing what the "MC" added to "Xv" was meaning -- cause I just don't know these things). Because I didn't understand, I tried both the GUI approach and the command line approach, just in case something might work or it might yield something. Now that I have the thread you provided, I do have more information to help me sort out what was said in the popup (but I didn't have the benefit of your kindly provided link previously -- and thanks for it). I trust that my trying both approaches hurt nothing and I will indeed try to be more careful in the future. Please be patient with my lack of understanding and experience; I'll improve in time.

On Dec. 29th at 12:11 p.m. (according to the info I see in the posting at my end today), Mark asked that I download zdrv_212.sfs and place it in /mnt/home (and since I found no "home" folder in "mnt", I had to create it in "mnt"). I have finished the download and I am willing to give it a try, though like I said, I've only used the puppy-2.12-seamonkey-zdrv.iso for all the tests I've run recently. I'm for anything to work and will try whatever I'm asked to do, especially since I'm doing everything multisession, so nothing of lasting consequence can go wrong (but I kind of wonder about the placement of this driver in a folder I had to create, though I confess I don't know about these things). I'll reboot in a few moments after I place this posting.

Armed with 3DCC, I ran 6 tests on my 9600-based computer (my 3rd computer) this morning and got some interesting results that I will post separately (the 3DCC demo and drivers provide a wealth of varied outcomes!). I really appreciate the help all 3 of you (tempestuous, Gn2, and Mark) are providing to me, but I fear Gn2's remark about this thread meandering away from 3DCC into my personal ATI problems may be right (though 3DCC and its drivers are center-stage in what I'm testing right now). I did start in another thread that I started, but the link provided by tempestuous to the 3DCC here in this thread really started giving me more help and the tools I needed to get rolling than I was getting previously; so I've just stayed here where the help and tools have been maximal. I don't know how to reweave these threads into something more appropriate. Until guided elsewhere, I'll continue to post my adventures with 3DCC and my video cards here (but I'm certainly open to suggestions!).

If it's possible - perhaps a Mod could split your posts & replies to same - into another thread ?
Preferably where it was First Posted
Before "migrating" to here.
It would then keep the 3dcc specific topics separate & dealing only on that utility usage ?
This thread is in Forum Header ANNOUNCEMENTS - no problems or replies to same should be here.
If for no other reason - the obvious:
(A manual search for solutions would be in Beginners/Users/ or Bugs Headers)

In meantime, please try

Code:

find / -name "agpgart" (*and) dmesg | grep agpgart

You need either the ATI version or more generic AGP support as supplied by
(either initrd compiled in OR ) - As loaded by 3dcc add-ons.
Examples:

BTW - The only lines needed to paste in lsmod ouput were those relevant to vid modes - all else have no bearing.
The xorg.conf file needs to have ATI as the driver
NOT (vesa) - Yours shows TWO driver lines !
Once the first USEABLE is loaded, next is ignored.
(or desktop startup gets aborted, dumping you back to text mode with a screen error Msg )
which also gets logged in /var/log/Xorg_xx file > May also be in /tmp folder.

In (xorg.conf) "device section" (PCI Bus is OK) AGP is not a separate bus it is an extension to PCI.
It's allowable to have multiple "device" sections - they will be listed as > :0 , then 1,2, etc - which allows for variables in running any desired desktop environment.
It is just then needed to create own .xinitrc file to execute -same as using variables or alternate Desktop or alternate Window Mgrs.
As explained before a WINDOW Mgr is NOT the GUI desktop App E.G.> KDE - Flux - Xfce4- E17, etal.

Once AGP support is enabled in Puppy (BIOS is now OK) the wizard should work - if not, paste in your xorg.conf file
It was not necessary to re-burn ISOs - just start in

Code:

puppy pfix=ram

for pristine state (saving old persistent data file by renaming it for later possible reference)

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forumYou cannot attach files in this forumYou can download files in this forum