It's a fair point Rob but other similar sites in the city centre previously haven't suffered any problems (as far as we're aware). The Dale Street birds used to attract a fair crowd too.

That said it depends on their exact breeding location which of course is not to be diclosed or discussed here or with other 'birders' we don't know. If such a location was quite low down then they could be disturbed by birders/photographers and also attract adverse publicity from the undesirables that groups of birders might draw.

We really just need to use our common sense. If the birds look agitated then we need to back away and give them space. I would ask that if anyone witnesses any 'unacceptable behaviour' or problem with these birds to let me know asap so I can liase with the right people if necessary.

I think at the end of the day they're more tolerant than we might give them credit for. The city centre hustle and bustle doesn't bother them and it's louder and more hectic than some might appreciate

First tram out of Alty this morning, am I mad, got me to the Back Piccadilly area for 06.30 and immediate views of a preening female Black Redstart. Watched her for a while then moved up to Port Street car park - nothing in the way of BXs there although I did see and hear a Wren in some scrubby bits opposite the car park entrance. Back to the original area and had a repeat show from the female. No sign of any undesirables - thanks to Dave T for the advice and Adrian for the directions

2 brief glimpses of a single female this morning, 1 quick photo op, lots of song, 1 grey wagtail and 1 pied that we saw and heard, nice to meet Adrian and Roy and mr crutch man!! Shame we never saw the male, but not disapointed.

Yes good to meet you and Ian. Ian if you read this I hope your scan and any operation you have goes well. You are dedicated indeed!

I got several glimpses of female a few contact calls and the male singing stongly from a perch but I could not see it. Was not able to establish how many territories if more than one.

2 brief glimpses of a single female this morning, 1 quick photo op, lots of song, 1 grey wagtail and 1 pied that we saw and heard, nice to meet Adrian and Roy and mr crutch man!! Shame we never saw the male, but not disapointed.

Have heard singing Black Redstarts on 2 occasions (wed 7.40am & fri 8.05pm) within the last week in the Crown Court - Bloom St/Minshull St area of the city, but due to lack of time, wasn't able to make a positive sighting.

I would ask that anyone posting details of these or any other city centre Black Redstarts very carefully consider what they put in their post before hitting the submit button.

As a rare breeding bird, pubication of obviously used perching locations (which may in turn be near nest locations) and of course any actual nest site should be absolutely witheld from this forum. After discussing the issue with Adrian Dancy tonight, whether these particular birds are in fact breeding or not, we must be cautious about the information we put on here. Eggers are watching, don't you worry about that and any nest location may well be accessible for them should there be one.

I will be visiting the City Centre very early Sunday morning. In order to try and establish BX territories it would assist if anyone available could help in doing a sweep of the area. I am thinking of about 8.30AM 9.00AM.

What about we Senior Citizens Dave? I was thinking of having a look around on Monday morning I'm usually in the city centre around 7 - 7.30. I know that's not too early but hopefully any undesirables will still be where they collapsed the night before.

I will be visiting the City Centre very early Sunday morning. In order to try and establish BX territories it would assist if anyone available could help in doing a sweep of the area. I am thinking of about 8.30AM 9.00AM.

I have been checking last year's nest site on a twice-daily basis with "not a dicky bird" to be seen, apart from the occasional pigeon. Just below the old nest they are replacing the tram tracks which means quite a bit of disturbance. The Grey Wags which nested in the same street last year are also absent.

Some good info in there Adrian thank you, i think we will get the chance to have a look at them ourselves this weekend, i kind of find it ironic that the last time i saw them was in and around the old martial arts shop before it moved and the new nesting area is again within a stones throw of the new martial arts shop! I have searched high and low through all my old photos and cannot find any of the old area they nested in which is disapointing for me as i know i had some if not lots!

I took the afternoon off work and spent 7 1/2 hours at the location...so here is my take on what was seen and I will be as brief as poss. Tim wilcox was with me for a good part of the afternoon.

On arrival at the site (China Lane) the first bird I saw and heard was a black redstart (BX). The BX was singing on the chimney mentioned in first post. About a couple of hours later I heard two BXs singing from different locations. I contacted Ian to inform him. When I was in mid conservation with Ian I witnessed two BXs having a fight just above the martial arts centre roof! (Back piccadilly) the birds took the fight to mid-air. This was more than a checking out drama but all out aggression with one bird seeing the other off out of territory.

Later in the afternoon Tim and I saw a male and female together content with each other's company and they flew together over Dale street.

Very late afternoon I saw two birds mating high on a roof in Dale Street.

I have to admit that at the time of writing I do not know if the female ever sings. If she does not sing then it seems obvious to me that we have two males in Manchester. Given the level of aggression I saw between the two birds fighting I am inclined towards thinking that we have two males even if the female sings.

Given the above I think it may well be worthwhile for birders to see if we have a male singing around last years site.

Some of the activity I saw may well have been the female looking for a nest site. Depending upon where the nest is made it may be that steps may have to be taken to protect the site from disturbance.

Given that I watched the area exensively over the weekend I am confident that the birds arrived yesterday though previous reports may well be valid. So thanks to everyone reporting. I must admit to wearing out a lot of shoe leather trying to locate these little rascals!

Please be aware that these are Sched. 1 birds.

These birds and the nest site will be very closely monitored by me.

Nice to meet Nigel who found the bird and of course others who turned up or showed interest.

Other sitings around the site were pied and grey wagtail, kestrel flying high above, peregrine high above , magpie and carrion crow too close for comfort.

I also witnessed human behaviour too discusting to report here, some folk have no shame.

Hope the birds breed successfully and everyone gets to see them in the course of time.

It was a case of Murphy's Law, since I was in some hurry to get home and could ill afford to spare any time.

As I was cycling along Dale Street, at 15:00, in the direction of Piccadilly Station, I heard the song very clearly. I turned around and targetted the source as the high buildings on China Lane.

After five minutes of searching China Lane and Back Piccadilly, I located the bird: walk twenty yards down China Lane, from Dale Street; look upwards to the top of the first building on the right; it was singing from the ornate chimney stack.

I also saw three Peregrines in the air together over Stevenson Square, about five minutes earlier.

QUOTE I saw Black Redstarts here maybe 10 years ago, before they rennovated the buildings along Portland St where I suspected they nested (the old Kung-Fu shop - now Jumpin Jacks) on the corner of Dickinson and Portland St.

that "old kung fu shop" was owned by my wife and her uncle it was called chung yee sports, it was on 110 portland street then took over the old allied irish bank building on the corner in about 1990 and moved to newton street in '93 now renamed van dang martial arts! The redstarts used to nest above the car park round the back now not there. You used to be able to walk through from portland street through an archway but alas no more.

Unfortunately there's a lot of renovation work going on at our offices alongside the canal (nearer the Palace Theatre) so they probably won't venture this far.

I saw Black Redstarts here maybe 10 years ago, before they rennovated the buildings along Portland St where I suspected they nested (the old Kung-Fu shop - now Jumpin Jacks) on the corner of Dickinson and Portland St.

The Court is the Minshull Street end. If you look to your left at the top of Canal Street you'll see a car park over the canal. I saw a female and 3 young there few years back with my partner and she is certain she saw a female black redstart there yesterday.

The Crown Court is off Aytoun Street (which is basically accessed on foot off Piccadilly Grardens). The canal runs down from here through the Gay Village and out along Whitworth Street. There were reports (substantiated I think) of juvenile Black Reds just off Sackville Street very close to the canal (and only a few hundred yards from the courts) a couple of years ago. Of course a traditional and old favourite site was along the canal at the back of the NCP car park off Whitworth Street many years ago and this is also only down the canal from the courts. With so many buildings, so much noise and activity, so many nooks and crannies, it's no surprise they perhaps go mainly unnoticed.