FYLSE - results are out for the June test! I'm curious to hear about the results.

Anyone know if they know people who passed it? It is a hard test, was it similar to October's. The 2012 test in June was very hard but if I took it today, I think I'd pass it! Studying is everything, practice does make those IRAC writings seem to flow more easily and my rule statements? I have not forgotten one, all the way to remdies for breach of contract, UCC, offer, acceptance, ETC. Torts was fun, especially intentional batteries, can't imagine not having intent when angry enough to hit my boss (LOL and JK) but I still dream fact patterns with murder - they always test on murder. I never dreamed of that before law school - brings out the criminal in us all. But now I'm in the most wonderful classes and GET IT - evidence, professional responsibility, corporations and legal analysis - getting ready to write a BRIEF!

I passed that FYLSE last October. 548 took the test and only 86 passed, 99 second timers from Concord (CLS) took it and 13 passed. I was one of the 13;) It is a hard test for nontraditional part time students. I'm 51, 4 months to go and I finish my third year at CLS. I have books to start studying for the BAR EXAM and I am starting this weekend with practice essays and multiple choice questionsg. I will take the exam in Feb of 2015, just after finishing my year four at CLS. Well, this year 28 CLS students took the bar exam in FEB, 8 passed. I can do it, I can;) LOL, stressed NO, preparing to beat that test. I sure don't want to have to take it twice. CAN'T WAIT.

The Concord results are not encouraging; Concord has the resources to get most students through this test. This would indicate the Concord students themselves are somehow deficient in their study habits or simply lacking basic skills. such as writing and memorization.

I also wonder if the State Bar stacks the deck, the pass rate never seems to go above 20%. I wonder if the Cal Bar is purposely fiddling with the grading curve to maintain this low pass rate?

I don't see any evidence of that. If you look at the FYLSE questions and model answers, they don't seem any tougher than most first year law school exams. In fact, I'd say that my first year contracts exams were considerably more complicated. The answers provided by Calbar are pretty straightforward: general rule, applicable exceptions, brief analysis and conclusion.

I'm not saying it's an easy test, it's not. I think the high failure rate has more to do with the fact that online law schools have open admissions and will take most applicants, even those lacking adequate academic qualifications.

The low pass rate may also be evidence that Concord's program is not rigorous enough. If the Concord exams are comparable in difficulty and scope to the FLYSE (and they should be at least that hard), then you would expect a higher pass rate.

No, you missed the point. It's not the questions, it is the grading and the curve which is controlled by the CalBar.

For example, if it is predetermined there will be only a 20% pass, only those students in the top 20% will pass; the other 80% will fail regardless whether their answers would have satisified exams at a law school.

While T/F and multiples should be straight forward, essay question grading is arcane and subjective. Some jurisdictions like DC and California have consistently low pass rates cause by essay question grading practices.

I got your point about the curve being manipulated, and I know that it can be done, I just don't see any real evidence of that.

Here's my logic:

The model answers provided by Calbar are presumably examples of average or better than average passing answers, which means they represent answers scoring comfortably above the curve. If a student can match those answers in terms of issue spotting and basic analysis, they should (I think) be alright.

I suppose the best evidence would be from people who have failed the FYLSE. Did they correctly state the law, spot all the major issues and defenses and still fail (indicating a harsh curve), or were they significantly deficient?

What strikes me is that the model answers aren't especially remarkable, they're just good. It makes me wonder if a significant number of test takers are performing significantly below par.

I completely agree with your point regarding the subjective nature essay grading. It can be unfair and arbitrary. I've known people who failed the bar by five points, which means they may have passed if a different grader had read their essays. On the bar exam, I think this is especially true regarding the PTs.

Model answers may have nothing to do with passing. It just seems curious that from year to year, 80% of the FYLSE takers fail and the general Cal Bar pass rate never seems to get above 60%. On the other hand in some states, the bar pass rate is always 80-90% - seems to me those failed FYLSE takers might have succeeded in another state had they that option. Too bad lawyers suck at math (except for billing); this could use some quantitative analysis.

Don't you think the low bar pass rate is related to the sheer difficulty of the exam? Even many highly regarded out of state schools have significantly lower pass rates in CA. Maybe it's the curve, but the people I've spoken with who took other states' exams and then took CA found it to be significantly more difficult.