Welcome

Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

Author
Topic: K-Pax Vitamins (Read 5279 times)

Hi, I found out to be hiv positive in May 2012 when I was hospitalized for a chronic diarrhea due to cryptosporidium; my cd4 were only 22 (6%) and wbc 1650. The viral load was 400.000. I immediately started treatment with Prezista, Norvir and Truvada, folic acid, vitamin b and fermented papaya, probiotic yoghurt (Kefir) and also Bactrim which I stopped in November, and in July (2 months and half after) the cd4 were 284 (16%) and wbc about 4400 and the viral load undetacable. In september more or less same results. Since te begininng I took also lendormin (brotizolam) or, alternatevely, tavor (lorezepam) to sleep; but from september I increased the dosage of tavor and lendormin and I also added melatonin 2.5mg or en or lexotan. I also started to add vitamin c (500mg), d, zinc (25mg), copper (1,5mg) and selenium (60mg) and I started to walk for about 2 hours per day at least 4/5 times per week. In november the lab results showed 255 cd4 (20%) but only 3400 wbc. In January the lab results showed 293 cd4 (21,7) but again, only 3470 wbc. My question is: could the excess of benzos be the cause of this low count of wbc? (specifically neutrophilis = 1700/1800) or the melatonin? or the walks? (maybe it's too much 2 hours per day?). In any case I always felt great, healty and with a lot of energy in the last 5-6 months (I never had fever, flu, sore throat or head heach).In the meantinme I stopped all the benzos and the melatonin and I started taking only halcion that I take after about 3 hours the haart in order to avoid interferences withn the Haart.I also started now taking k-pax supplement (only 1 or 2 pills per day) but I noticed that it gives me a mild diarreha (I don't know if it's a coincidence)Any experience (good or bad) with k-pax vitamins?Thank you very much for your answers!

You need to be on your ART for at least one year to get a minimun equilibrium in your body. Your body is fighting to get back its immune system to normality and you are adding way too much stuff.

Even your digestive system might not be able to assimilate all the vitamins your are taking.So all of your questions about benzos , come down to, are they working? Talk to your Psychiatrist doctor, he is the only one who can answear you.

Stop taking so much stuff, it might hurt you rather than help you.Get plenty of proteins in your meat, and eat healthy, after a year on ARV, you can add some other vitamins. That's my advice.Greetings

Hi Roy,thank you very much for your advise! Actually I'd already stopped all the benzos that I used to take and the melatonin too, because they did not work anymore and now I only take halcion before sleeping. And I also stopped all the vitamins which I was taking separately and I start trying K-pax (only 1 or 2 pills per day instead of 4) which is a multivitaminic Isince I eat not to much fruit and very little vegetable due to my colitys (but I eat meat, fish, chiken, pasta. During the first period of haart did you take any vitamins and now?Did you ever tried K-paxThank you very much for your answer.

Hi JL, welcome to the forums. I've moved this thread into the Nutrition forum, as it is a more appropriate place for it. You may want to read some of the other threads in the Nutrition forum as well, as many of them deal with people's experiences with various supplements.

You started out with a CD4 count of only 22 less than a year ago - and it may take some time before your get a substantial rise in your counts. Some people here went for years before their CD4s got over 200 when starting out so low.

You're already above 200, so you're doing very well in a short space of time. That's due to the Prezista, Norvir and Truvada you're taking, not any of the supplements.

You need to understand that the ONLY thing that has been proven to lower the VL and raise the CD4s is antiretroviral treatment (ART). If supplements did much of anything, we would not have lost so many people to this virus before there were effective treatments. Some people back in the 80s and 90s were taking all sorts of supplements and yet they died, due to lack of effective ART.

In the same vein, I've never seen any proof or even reference to things like benzos keeping a person's CD4 or WBC levels low while on treatment. Many people here take meds like benzos and/or antidepressants and/or sleeping tablets and it's just not an issue.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Hi JL, welcome to the forums. I've moved this thread into the Nutrition forum, as it is a more appropriate place for it. You may want to read some of the other threads in the Nutrition forum as well, as many of them deal with people's experiences with various supplements.

You started out with a CD4 count of only 22 less than a year ago - and it may take some time before your get a substantial rise in your counts. Some people here went for years before their CD4s got over 200 when starting out so low.

You're already above 200, so you're doing very well in a short space of time. That's due to the Prezista, Norvir and Truvada you're taking, not any of the supplements.

You need to understand that the ONLY thing that has been proven to lower the VL and raise the CD4s is antiretroviral treatment (ART). If supplements did much of anything, we would not have lost so many people to this virus before there were effective treatments. Some people back in the 80s and 90s were taking all sorts of supplements and yet they died, due to lack of effective ART.

In the same vein, I've never seen any proof or even reference to things like benzos keeping a person's CD4 or WBC levels low while on treatment. Many people here take meds like benzos and/or antidepressants and/or sleeping tablets and it's just not an issue.

Ann

Thank you Ann for your advise!!! Yes, you're completely right that the HAArt is the only way to improve the cd4 count. But I also read that some vitamins or micronutrients, such as selenium, zinc, vitamin d and vitamin b may help, along with the Haart. Is that true? I just had my vitamin d test and the result is that I'm carent, so I will take more vitamin d starting from tomorrow. Could be the melatonine the cause of the low wbc?Thank you for your answers

Thank you Ann for your advise!!! Yes, you're completely right that the HAArt is the only way to improve the cd4 count. But I also read that some vitamins or micronutrients, such as selenium, zinc, vitamin d and vitamin b may help, along with the Haart. Is that true? I just had my vitamin d test and the result is that I'm carent, so I will take more vitamin d starting from tomorrow. Could be the melatonine the cause of the low wbc?Thank you for your answers

I can't see anything you're taking as a possible cause of low WBCs.

What does your doctor say about your WBC levels? Is he or she concerned?

Do you know what your levels were like pre-infection? There's always the possibility that you naturally fall on the low side of the "normal" range.

I really don't put a lot of stock in the idea of any of the supplements you mention making much of a difference to your CD4 levels. There are a lot of claims floating around the internet, but nine times out of ten they're claims made by a company who wants to sell you their supplements.

The best thing you can do is eat a well-balanced diet and get regular exercise. Nutrients are better absorbed when they come in food form and if you ask me, unless someone has a definite deficiency in a particular nutrient, it's a waste of money to take supplements. Your money is far better spent on good, nutritious, fresh food.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thank you Ann,for your answers! My doctor is not concerned about my WBC level, since I don't have infections and since I feel very good and healthy. My doctor says the same as you: that, naturally I may have wbc on the low side of the range. Since I don't eat much fruit and vegetable due to my colitis the doctor suggested me to take, as supplements, vitamin d (that I'm a bit carent), zinc, acid folic (along with the other vitamins b) and also vitamnin c and fermented papaya (as antioxidant). And thank you for your suggestions about the well-balanced diet and get regular exercise (they are the same as my doctor). By the way, are you a doctor?Thank you again for your suggestions-:))

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Although I still take multivitamins, I stopped dosing myself with mega vitamins quite awhile ago when research, like the recent one I posted below, started to question their efficacy and safety. Of note, the below synopsis emphasizes their use in "healthy" individuals-which many of us are not. Deficiencies of some "vitamins" do exist in our population.

For decades researchers assumed that highly reactive molecules called free radicals caused aging by damaging cells and thus undermining the functioning of tissues and organs.

Recent experiments, however, show that increases in certain free radicals in mice and worms correlate with longer life span. Indeed, in some circumstances, free radicals seem to signal cellular repair networks.

If these results are confirmed, they may suggest that taking antioxidants in the form of vitamins or other supplements can do more harm than good in otherwise healthy individuals.

I am a big fan of K-Pax vitamins. I have been taking them (immune support formula) for 8 years. I also take some other supplements. I've been pos for almost 30 years and my last CD4 was 2159 (my all time low was 56). Supplements don't replace eating well -- one definition that Lark Lands PhD gave some 20 years ago -- "don't put anything in your grocery cart that wasn't readily available 10,000 years ago." At least minimize eating things that come in packages and boxes.

Joy, you might wish to investigate magnesium as a sleep aid. It is involved with hundreds of functions in your body. I have found it very helpful as a muscle relaxant and it definitely helps with sleep. But, since you have colitis, you shouldn't take the common forms like oxide (basically non absorbable) or citrate as they will worsen your condition. Try epsom salt baths (magnesium sulphate), magnesium oil topically or jigsaw magnesium which is a slow release form and doesn't cause loose stools.