POD to mom's choice only. MIL decided that she wanted to be there when Peach was born, and DH decided it wasn't such a bad idea. *I* decided that when DH is giving birth, he's welcome to invite his mom, but when it is *my* nether regions exposed I get to decide who is there. Heck, my SIL is medical personell, and I threw her out of the room too.

I agree. I would not want MY mom in the room, let alone DHs mom. The person giving birth has all veto power. If mom-to-be wanted someone in, but dad-to-be doesn't, there needs to be a discussion. Mom needs the support. Fair? no. Sometimes life isn't fair.

You know, I'm starting to think dad should get some degree of veto power too. Not willy-nilly veto power, but if he has a serious objection to someone being there, I think that has some weight. I'm not talking about cases where he didn't always see eye to eye with mom's sister, who's also her best friend, so much as extreme cases, like if sister has been making comments about how she should take the kid and leave dad and find someone worthwhile throughout the course of the pregnancy. Dad does have the right to not be subjected to an openly hostile environment when his kid is born. But that may be an issue for marriage counseling, not an etiquette board

This is all assuming, of course, an involved and caring dad, not some jerk who got her pregnant and took off.

POD to mom's choice only. MIL decided that she wanted to be there when Peach was born, and DH decided it wasn't such a bad idea. *I* decided that when DH is giving birth, he's welcome to invite his mom, but when it is *my* nether regions exposed I get to decide who is there. Heck, my SIL is medical personell, and I threw her out of the room too.

I agree. I would not want MY mom in the room, let alone DHs mom. The person giving birth has all veto power. If mom-to-be wanted someone in, but dad-to-be doesn't, there needs to be a discussion. Mom needs the support. Fair? no. Sometimes life isn't fair.

You know, I'm starting to think dad should get some degree of veto power too. Not willy-nilly veto power, but if he has a serious objection to someone being there, I think that has some weight. I'm not talking about cases where he didn't always see eye to eye with mom's sister, who's also her best friend, so much as extreme cases, like if sister has been making comments about how she should take the kid and leave dad and find someone worthwhile throughout the course of the pregnancy. Dad does have the right to not be subjected to an openly hostile environment when his kid is born. But that may be an issue for marriage counseling, not an etiquette board

This is all assuming, of course, an involved and caring dad, not some jerk who got her pregnant and took off.

Well, if the father has that kind of objection, I have to admit that I don't see an involved and caring mother wanting that person present either. But it does sound like an issue for marriage counseling. Etiquette-wise, while the father could make that request of the mother, I think he could also require that if she wants anyone there with a hostile attitude toward the father that said persons have to treat him with respect and refrain from making negative comments about him. That would definitely be fair. But I don't think he could ask that that person not be there at all.

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I see where you're coming from, KeenReader, but the way it is phrased originally makes it sound like no one, including the father, is allowed to bring this subject up with the mother. It's true that it is rude for friends, grandparents-to-be and other relatives to invite themselves into the delivery room, but I think this is a perfectly reasonable discussion for new parents to have.

And as for who has final veto power between the mother and father, that probably varies from rel@tionship to rel@tionship. I'm not sure that's really an etiquette issue. At least not one we will ever reach a consensus on.

I think that they can ask, but the mother does and should have final veto power.

Let's face it, childbirth is a procedure that involves pain and can in many ways involves what can feel to the mother like a major lack of dignity. She should not be made to feel guilty or told how "hurt" others are that she doesn't want them there while she's undergoing a painful procedure that involves pushing something out of the lower end of her body or having an incision made in her abdomen and something removed-even if it's a child.

I think we need to clarify - are we talking in the delivery room? Yes, mom should of course get final say. At the hospital in some other area politely waiting for parents' cues? I think that should be joint decision. Grandparents or whoever else is allowed to be at the hospital can see the new baby through the window in the nursery shortly after birth (at every birth I've been to) with no disruption or interaction with the new mom if she so chooses.

I'm talking about at the actual delivery. I agree that who comes to visit in the hospital afterwards should be a joint decision between the parents.

Sorry, again I mean at the hospital in the waiting room while the mom is in labor/delivering vs. in the delivery room itself. Not visiting afterward. Mom should be able to veto delivery room, both parents should be able to decide who is in the waiting room while mom is in labor. My comment about seeing the baby in the nursery was shortly after the baby is delivered, for people who are waiting for it to happen. You can do this without even going into the new mom's room and she won't be disturbed.

A lot of hospitals are getting away with having nurseries now - there's a lot of emphasis on skin-to-skin contact with mom and keeping mom and baby together after delivery. When I had munchkin, there's absolutely no nursery at our hospital, just a tiny room where they bathe/weigh baby, then bring him or her back to mom. Additionally, our hospital strongly recommended not having family wait in the waiting room - the nurse manager said quite a few times pushy family members steamrolled over a tired mother after the birth.

In my case, my parents were at the hospital as our supports and I refused to agree to DH's mother coming (she's now cut off due to toxicity), but in the end, it didn't matter - the only ones to see Munchkin's birth was my OB, a pediatrician and a bunch of nurses. I had a c-section and had to be put under because a spinal wouldn't work; Munchkin was given to his father with strict instructions from me to the nurse before I was put under that no one, not even my own mother, was to hold Munchkin except his father, until I did. Getting over the guilt over not being there for his birth was immense - if other extended family members had been gawking through a window at him, before I'd even seen him, the hurt would've been even worse in my post-partum mind.

I see where you're coming from, KeenReader, but the way it is phrased originally makes it sound like no one, including the father, is allowed to bring this subject up with the mother. It's true that it is rude for friends, grandparents-to-be and other relatives to invite themselves into the delivery room, but I think this is a perfectly reasonable discussion for new parents to have.

And as for who has final veto power between the mother and father, that probably varies from rel@tionship to rel@tionship. I'm not sure that's really an etiquette issue. At least not one we will ever reach a consensus on.

I think that they can ask, but the mother does and should have final veto power.

Let's face it, childbirth is a procedure that involves pain and can in many ways involves what can feel to the mother like a major lack of dignity. She should not be made to feel guilty or told how "hurt" others are that she doesn't want them there while she's undergoing a painful procedure that involves pushing something out of the lower end of her body or having an incision made in her abdomen and something removed-even if it's a child.

I think we need to clarify - are we talking in the delivery room? Yes, mom should of course get final say. At the hospital in some other area politely waiting for parents' cues? I think that should be joint decision. Grandparents or whoever else is allowed to be at the hospital can see the new baby through the window in the nursery shortly after birth (at every birth I've been to) with no disruption or interaction with the new mom if she so chooses.

I'm talking about at the actual delivery. I agree that who comes to visit in the hospital afterwards should be a joint decision between the parents.

Sorry, again I mean at the hospital in the waiting room while the mom is in labor/delivering vs. in the delivery room itself. Not visiting afterward. Mom should be able to veto delivery room, both parents should be able to decide who is in the waiting room while mom is in labor. My comment about seeing the baby in the nursery was shortly after the baby is delivered, for people who are waiting for it to happen. You can do this without even going into the new mom's room and she won't be disturbed.

A lot of hospitals are getting away with having nurseries now - there's a lot of emphasis on skin-to-skin contact with mom and keeping mom and baby together after delivery. When I had munchkin, there's absolutely no nursery at our hospital, just a tiny room where they bathe/weigh baby, then bring him or her back to mom. Additionally, our hospital strongly recommended not having family wait in the waiting room - the nurse manager said quite a few times pushy family members steamrolled over a tired mother after the birth.

In my case, my parents were at the hospital as our supports and I refused to agree to DH's mother coming (she's now cut off due to toxicity), but in the end, it didn't matter - the only ones to see Munchkin's birth was my OB, a pediatrician and a bunch of nurses. I had a c-section and had to be put under because a spinal wouldn't work; Munchkin was given to his father with strict instructions from me to the nurse before I was put under that no one, not even my own mother, was to hold Munchkin except his father, until I did. Getting over the guilt over not being there for his birth was immense - if other extended family members had been gawking through a window at him, before I'd even seen him, the hurt would've been even worse in my post-partum mind.

Well in my case there is no hospital in the area (I've been to all four major ones) that doesn't have a nursery and in the area where my family is from all the hospitals have nurseries. In that case I guess things would be different. But I have yet to see it. What I am addressing is with the belief that a hospital has a nursery.

Obviously a toxic relative is a completely different issue as is any kind of emergency issue with the birth - but aside from any specific issues such as yours, I think the mother and father need to make joint decisions for the waiting room while the mom is in labor and the baby. The mother can set the parameters for who gets to see her and when depending on her physical condition and those should be respected.

If either parent has an extreme objection to a relative being at the hospital because of the issues that they have that needs to be respected, for either parent.

*Do NOT call the MTB every.day after her due date asking "if she's had the baby yet?" When she has the baby, she'll let you know.

*If you offer to help, please HELP! Don't just show up at the MTB's door and expect to be entertained. She's tired. She's been up all night with a screaming newborn. THe least you could do is hold the baby so she can take a nap.

*New Mom's: Do NOT worry about the state of your house. If a dirty house bothers you that much, hire a maid-service to come in.

*Never feel guilty for your birth/labor choices. What was right for you, may not be for anyone else.

*Do NOT call the MTB every.day after her due date asking "if she's had the baby yet?" When she has the baby, she'll let you know.

*If you offer to help, please HELP! Don't just show up at the MTB's door and expect to be entertained. She's tired. She's been up all night with a screaming newborn. THe least you could do is hold the baby so she can take a nap.

*New Mom's: Do NOT worry about the state of your house. If a dirty house bothers you that much, hire a maid-service to come in.

*Never feel guilty for your birth/labor choices. What was right for you, may not be for anyone else.

ginlyn

And to elaborate on that.... If you are close enough to the MTB to be discussing the delivery, and she mentions that she is planning to use/not use drugs, induce, give birth in a tub of lime jello on top of the CN Tower, keep your personal feelings to yourself. Relaying plans is not the same thing as asking for opinions.

Overall I agree - but really, why is the MTB announcing the delivery-plan to everyone who will listen, anyway? By doing this, she ought to know that she will be getting 100+ opinions about her plans. Dh and I didn't discuss this with anyone other than the doctor.

As I said, the mother has veto power, but it's the father's kid, too, and in my opinion, to lump his opinion in with that of the grandparents and friends is unrealistic. New mom can put her foot down and say no, but she should give consideration to what he wants, as well, especially when it comes to people in the waiting room, as opposed to people in the birthing room.

I have given birth three times. I agree with KeenReader - the mother decides who is in the labor and delivery room with her. Hers is the only opinion on that subject that needs consideration. Laboring and birthing are not spectator sports, and every consideration should be given to what makes the mother the most comfortable.

Dad can offer his opinion on who visits afterward, but during the labor and delivery, the decision is solely Mom's.

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skbenny

I have given birth three times. I agree with KeenReader - the mother decides who is in the labor and delivery room with her. Hers is the only opinion on that subject that needs consideration. Laboring and birthing are not spectator sports, and every consideration should be given to what makes the mother the most comfortable.

Dad can offer his opinion on who visits afterward, but during the labor and delivery, the decision is solely Mom's.

This, but I would change the bolded to "who visits the baby afterward". I had some very uncomfortable visits that should not have happened. Especially memorable is one where my breasts were exposed while I was feeding the baby and a religious leader came to visit. If I would have had veto power this leader would not have been notified until I was home again.

I have given birth three times. I agree with KeenReader - the mother decides who is in the labor and delivery room with her. Hers is the only opinion on that subject that needs consideration. Laboring and birthing are not spectator sports, and every consideration should be given to what makes the mother the most comfortable.

Dad can offer his opinion on who visits afterward, but during the labor and delivery, the decision is solely Mom's.

This, but I would change the bolded to "who visits the baby afterward". I had some very uncomfortable visits that should not have happened. Especially memorable is one where my breasts were exposed while I was feeding the baby and a religious leader came to visit. If I would have had veto power this leader would not have been notified until I was home again.

As I said, the mother has veto power, but it's the father's kid, too, and in my opinion, to lump his opinion in with that of the grandparents and friends is unrealistic. New mom can put her foot down and say no, but she should give consideration to what he wants, as well, especially when it comes to people in the waiting room, as opposed to people in the birthing room.

I have given birth three times. I agree with KeenReader - the mother decides who is in the labor and delivery room with her. Hers is the only opinion on that subject that needs consideration. Laboring and birthing are not spectator sports, and every consideration should be given to what makes the mother the most comfortable.

Dad can offer his opinion on who visits afterward, but during the labor and delivery, the decision is solely Mom's.

Re the part in bold, it actually *can* sometimes be a bit of a spectator sport. I was a breech birth (and specifically, rear-end first) *AND* ten days late. The latter meant that mum had to be induced. The former meant that, in addition to the usual assortment of doctors, nurses and mid-wives present, plus my father, they'd also got in all the medical students who were doing their stint in the maternity unit to see how a breech birth was done!

Having said all that, though, I'm pretty sure that had my mother objected to the circus, that would have been abided by.

10. It is okay to have a shower for a new mother (if it is in keeping with her culture), but it should not be a "surprise" shower.

I'd modify #10 to:

10. It is okay (depending on your culture) to throw a shower for the MTB, but be sensitive to whether or not she would appreciate a "surprise" shower or not.

Personally, I like surprise parties and knowing about a shower beforehand would make me feel extremely awkward. Besides, there is no force on earth short of medical intervention that can induce labor before mom and baby are ready to go. (I know this because I tried.)

A lot of hospitals are getting away with having nurseries now - there's a lot of emphasis on skin-to-skin contact with mom and keeping mom and baby together after delivery. When I had munchkin, there's absolutely no nursery at our hospital, just a tiny room where they bathe/weigh baby, then bring him or her back to mom. Additionally, our hospital strongly recommended not having family wait in the waiting room - the nurse manager said quite a few times pushy family members steamrolled over a tired mother after the birth.

I hope this doesn't catch on, I enjoyed the fact that the hospital I went to had the option of a nursery. I could take a shower and get some extra sleep regardless of whether or not DH was actually there at the hospital with me or not.

In retrospect I'm really glad that there was no one at the hospital even in the waiting room. So much went wrong with Baby Oxy's birth that had any of mom's been there the stress levels would have been astronomical (that and it took a ridiculously long time)!

Please be sensitive to friends and relatives who may want to have a child, but can't - either due to fertility or timing. You don't need to pretend you're not expecting, but do not rub it in their face either ("Don't you want one? When are you guys going to get started?"). And be understanding if they don't jump for joy and ask lots of questions about your baby, or even if they need to avoid you for a while. Don't demand that every one "be happy for me." Allow them to be sad for themselves if that's where they are.