I believe that a tiger that has during its lifetime a mind state of an average tiger will likely be reborn as a tiger. And they were born as tigers in the first place because that was close to their mind state in the previous life. Very difficult for a tiger to be a 'good' tiger or a 'bad' tiger.

So does that mean they will return to hell again once they kill again? Like an infinite loop, if they become a crocodile, they go back to hell, then are reborn as a tiger, go back to hell. This only stops when they are reborn as a non killing creature?

“An effect can become a cause, reinforcing the original cause and producing the same effect in an intensified form, and so on indefinitely.” - George Orwell

Taco wrote:I believe that a tiger that has during its lifetime a mind state of an average tiger will likely be reborn as a tiger. And they were born as tigers in the first place because that was close to their mind state in the previous life. Very difficult for a tiger to be a 'good' tiger or a 'bad' tiger.

So what if one is reborn as a human that is in a cannibalistic society, and it is "average" for people to kill each other and eat each other, does that mean they will be reborn as cannibals?

So karma is then relative to society?

“An effect can become a cause, reinforcing the original cause and producing the same effect in an intensified form, and so on indefinitely.” - George Orwell

Taco wrote:I believe that a tiger that has during its lifetime a mind state of an average tiger will likely be reborn as a tiger. And they were born as tigers in the first place because that was close to their mind state in the previous life. Very difficult for a tiger to be a 'good' tiger or a 'bad' tiger.

So what if one is reborn as a human that is in a cannibalistic society, and it is "average" for people to kill each other and eat each other, does that mean they will be reborn as cannibals?

So karma is then relative to society?

More is expected from humans because of their higher intelligence and sense of morality. If that would be how all humans behaved, humans would be just an other species of savage animals, with no understanding of right and wrong. And Gotama as bodhisatta would still be in the heavens waiting for a better time and more developed species on earth.

Taco wrote:I believe that a tiger that has during its lifetime a mind state of an average tiger will likely be reborn as a tiger. And they were born as tigers in the first place because that was close to their mind state in the previous life. Very difficult for a tiger to be a 'good' tiger or a 'bad' tiger.

So what if one is reborn as a human that is in a cannibalistic society, and it is "average" for people to kill each other and eat each other, does that mean they will be reborn as cannibals?

So karma is then relative to society?

More is expected from humans because of their higher intelligence and sense of morality. If that would be how all humans behaved, humans would be just an other species of savage animals, with no understanding of right and wrong. And Gotama as bodhisatta would still be in the heavens waiting for a better time and more developed species on earth.

Just my own speculations...

This is reasonable, but that means that karma is controlled by something intelligent. Something intelligent enough to know "this species is not capable of high intelligence, therefore it will be reborn in the same plane".

Maybe the question I am asking cannot be answered, as perhaps the inner workings of karma is unknowable.

“An effect can become a cause, reinforcing the original cause and producing the same effect in an intensified form, and so on indefinitely.” - George Orwell

Kamma is intention and I think it's different from instinct. The actions of higher beings are more about intentions and the actions of lower beings are more about instincts. Instincts don't produce kammic consequences and the lower beings have to wait for a lottery jackpot to be reborn in the higher planes of existence. I trust that they filled out some coupons in their countless previous lives. Not sure though if any of this is the correct Theravada view.

"Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water, and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole there. A wind from the east would push it west, a wind from the west would push it east. A wind from the north would push it south, a wind from the south would push it north. And suppose a blind sea-turtle were there. It would come to the surface once every one hundred years. Now what do you think: would that blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?"

"It would be a sheer coincidence, lord, that the blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, would stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole."

"It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, arises in the world. It's likewise a sheer coincidence that a doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world. Now, this human state has been obtained. A Tathagata, worthy & rightly self-awakened, has arisen in the world. A doctrine & discipline expounded by a Tathagata appears in the world.

"Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

I was thinking along the same lines as Ben. While I have concern about the future of my cats, I can't do much to prevent them from being cats. But I can do all I can to try not to be reborn in the woeful states.

Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

Is a cat that is kept indoors or otherwise prevented from killing animals better off than a cat that is left outside where it will naturally do so?

They will still smack the cockroaches, lizards, ants, spiders and occasionally the other dog/cat that doesn't comply with the TOS

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

budo wrote:Do the animals that kill, such as lions,tigers,snakes,scorpions,sharks,crocodiles,eagles,hawks,hyenas,etc.. are they reborn in hell?

If there would be a "deed as such" that would be the cause to be reborn in hell then yes, but it is the mental context of deeds that is crucial. And since humans do not know the mental context of other species the consequences of deeds of animals are hidded for humans. Even the consequences of deeds of humans would be hidden for humans if the Buddha would not have taught them.The Buddha's teachings refer to the sphere of humans (not animals). Why? Because he taught the means for humans to liberate themselves.

Is a cat that is kept indoors or otherwise prevented from killing animals better off than a cat that is left outside where it will naturally do so?

They will still smack the cockroaches, lizards, ants, spiders and occasionally the other dog/cat that doesn't comply with the TOS

So if animals are allowed to kill animals without much karmic consequence because it's merely instinct and not intent, then would it be okay to have a few cats around to protect humans from pests or dangerous critters?

“An effect can become a cause, reinforcing the original cause and producing the same effect in an intensified form, and so on indefinitely.” - George Orwell