Sorry to burst the pious bubbles that must appear over the heads of letter-writers Peter Berry and Bill Forbes wherever they go, but the Bible explicitly states that other than fornicators and adulterers, anybody can marry anyone. Hebrews 13:4 states: “Marriage is honorable among all.” There are no specific requirements expressed whatsoever that relate to the sex of the participating individuals. Just the word “all.” As far as I know, that word is inclusive and about as clearly concise as one can get.

If you torture the Bible enough, you can get it to say whatever it is you want it to say.

Rev. Kat Holiday, Eaton

This letter was published in the July 26 edition.

For information on how to send a letter to the editor, click here[2]. Follow eLetters[3] on Twitter to receive updates about new letters to the editor when they’re posted.

In the 21st century, why are we debating marriage or anything else based on a book that was written 1000+ years ago by a bunch of men each with his own agenda? The book is contradictory. It has had chapters added and subtracted from it over the years depending on the politics of the day or who was pope at the time. It was written in different languages and then translated by men each with his own agenda. What is written in the bible is “proof” of nothing. And here I am wasting my time, too.

#2 Comment By irisman On July 25, 2013 @ 7:33 pm

The original prohibition on homosexual behavior is about 3000 years old. It doesn’t say anything about women, because women didn’t count. The reason for the prohibition is not clear, but a lot of the regulations in Leviticus are simply tribal customs.

#3 Comment By peterpi On July 25, 2013 @ 7:49 pm

The reason for the prohibition is not clear? The Old Testament writers wanted manly men and fertile women to hook up and stay hooked up, in order to produce more manly men and fertile women with clear title to the family name, who would produce more manly men and fertile women.
1) Numbers are everything. When you’re a small country and/or people constantly being over-run by bigger countries, beefing up your numbers matters.
2) When your population is constantly being thinned by war, disease, famine, neighbors using you for weapons practice on their way to a bigger foe — like the Braves might use the Rockies to get in a bit of practice before squaring off against a real opponent — making babies becomes important.
3) One of the Psalms says something like “Happy is the man with many arrows in his quiver”. They aren’t praising archery merit badges. The more kids, especially sons, a man has, the more manly, virile, potent, etc., he is seen to be.
That’s just a start. The fact that 3,000 years later, population matters are totally different doesn’t matter to the Bible thumpers.

#4 Comment By Robtf777 On July 25, 2013 @ 9:02 pm

“Hebrews 13:4 states: “Marriage is honorable among all.” There are no
specific requirements expressed whatsoever that relate to the sex of the
participating individuals. Just the word “all.” As far as I know, that
word is inclusive and about as clearly concise as one can get.”
==================
“Marriage” “is honorable among all”…….applies to “marriages” that God – and God alone – ordained and deemed to be “honorable”……and the FIRST marriage of Adam and Eve set the standard as to what God actually intended a “marriage union” to be.

Marriage, as defined by God, was intended to be a union of one man and one woman…..period.

God did NOT create a “helper” and “wife” for Adam named Steve who had the same body parts as Adam did.

Nor did God create multiple “helpers/wives” for Adam named Betty, Carol, Nancy, Penny and “bless” “polygamy” as the set standard that He intended mankind to follow.

When people get so caught up in……trying to do God’s Will FOR HIM as Abraham did when he did not trust God that Sarah would become pregnant……..OR get caught up in trying to sleep with every pretty girl he could sleep with as Solomon did when he married 700 wives……..OR get caught up in their sexual desires and sexual lusts that they commit sins against God and His Word as David did when he saw a married woman bathing……..OR get so caught up in their sexual desires and sexual lusts that they conspire with other “sinners” to go against God and His Word as homosexuals do with one another……..they will often DECEPTIVELY “cherry pick” a phrase or two out of the whole Bible to try to defend acts and behaviors that God has deemed to be wrong, sinful, evil, and wicked…..not to mention an abomination.

It is…..strange…..and odd…..and ironic…..that the Rev Holiday would actually deceptively “quote” the Apostle Paul in one of his letters that “contradicts” all the points in other letters that Paul wrote regarding homosexuality and lesbianism……..which is why Paul is usually……despised……by Pro-Gay Liberals because of what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10…….along with Paul’s expansion of “homosexual sexual conduct” that God forbade in Leviticus to include lesbians.

Let there be NO confusion: God PROHIBITS sexual immorality……which is NOT limited to but DOES INCLUDE homosexual sex acts among men and homosexual sex acts among women.

And since God FORBIDS homosexual sexual activity…….there is absolutely NO rationale reason to even consider that God would somehow “permit” “same-sex marriages.” That is Absolutely Ludicrous.

But…..being……ludicrous…..is actually what those who try to deceive people do…..and resort to doing.

Let’s face it…….the Greatest of ALL liars and deceivers was the one who asked Eve a very simply question “Did God really say……..”…….and that question has been asked time and time again throughout human history……in order to try to sow the seeds of doubt as to what God really said and meant…….to a world that WANTS to eat the “fruit of the forbidden tree.”

Eve and Adam listened to the “One Who Deceives” and to his “words of foolishness that appeared to be wise”…….instead of simply obeying God and looking to God for their Ultimate Joy. They traded the Garden of Eden and Fellowship WITH God……for lies and tricks and deceptions that……sounded good……and may have tasted pretty good……for a moment of two……but only lead to sorrow and shame and mourning and heartache and toil and pain in the longer term.

Quite often…..sinning “feels good” and is “pleasurable”……especially “sexual immorality.” Duh. DUH!!!!. If it HURT…..A LOT…..no one would commit an act of adultery, prostitution, or homosexuality…..EVER.

But just as the sweet taste of that forbidden fruit was pleasurable only for a moment or so…….the consequences that followed……weren’t so pleasurable…..and lasted a much longer time.

And just as the “sweetness” of sexual immorality may be pleasurable for a moment or so……the consequences are NOT……especially for those here in the US who currently have one or more of the 100 million cases of STDs …….for those who will acquire one or more of the 20 million new cases of STDs that will develop in the next year……for those who’s sexual immorality leads to break-ups, divorce, and broken homes (not to mention lawyer fees, court costs, alimony, and child support)……..and especially for those who try to “cover up” an act or acts of sexual immorality as David did……by killing another innocent human life (a fair number of the 50 million abortions that have been performed).

Sexual immorality is pleasurable……just as Eve and Adam eating that forbidden fruit did not make them vomit.

But disobeying God ALWAYS has consequences…..eventually……even if it comes when we stand before Him.

Banishment from the Garden of Eden was “nothing” compared to the prospect of “eternal banishment” from God and His Eternal Kingdom.

But it doesn’t have to be that way.

God WANTS people to be reconciled to Him……to turn away from their sins and to turn to Him. In fact, God told Ezekiel more than 3 times in the book of Ezekiel that for those who will simply STOP doing evil and START doing good……to STOP defending evil and START defending God and His Word……to STOP teaching and encouraging evil and wickedness and START teaching and encouraging others about God and His Word…….God will no longer remember the evil and wickedness they used to do, defend, teach and encourage…….but will remember only the GOOD they are now doing, defending, teaching, and encouraging.

Opposing God may lead to temporary moments of pleasure and joy…….like with Eve and the fruit and with sexual immorality……but always, always, always leads to…..pain and suffering…..eventually……for EVERYONE involved……including for all eternity.

But it doesn’t have to be that way.

God desires that EVERYONE turn and/or return to Him and His Word. No one – NO ONE – gets to God and His Eternal Kingdom by “mankind’s made-up rules”…..but by GOD’S RULES according to His Word.

For those who can quote from the letter to the Hebrews that Paul wrote……try reading all his other letters……and reconciling the parts that condemn homosexuality/lesbianism with Hebrews 13:4……with the Adam and Eve that God created (without a Steve or Nancy and Joyce and Sarah and Mary as his additional kelpers/wives)……with the institution of marriage that God ordained “in the beginning” that Jesus quoted from as being “in the beginning”…….and the condemnations of ALL forms of sexual immorality (including homosexuality/lesbianism)………..and STOP listening to Deceivers and START listening to God.

The GOOD NEWS is that God KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS that “no one is perfect”…..”that all sin and fall short of His Glory”…….and that He came up with a way that we can be reconciled with Him and enjoy all the blessings of Eternal Life with Him.

And it STARTS by recognizing that “while we are not perfect”…..God….IS….PERFECT.

Those who seek God……will find Him. Just ask Him. The GOOD NEWS is that God will listen.

#5 Comment By Robtf777 On July 25, 2013 @ 9:09 pm

Dis Adam and Eve have to be concerned about STDs or HIV/AIDS?

Did……David?

Did….Solomon…..who married 700 women so he could have sex with almost as many women as Hugh Hefner had Playmates?

Sexual immorality is what caused STDs to come about in the first place……and WIDESPREAD sexual immorality is what caused it to become the EPIDEMIC it is.

God….Knows…..Best…….and obedience to God’s instructions would have saved the world a whole lot of heartache, suffering, pain, disease, destruction, and death……that sexual immorality cursed this world with because of the consequences of sexual immorality.

But……nooooooooo….the world listens to…..liberals……and the idea of “personal sexual freedom” to do whatever one wants to do…….in spite of the Known Long-Term FAILURE of that foolish ideology……..unless one thinks that…..syphilis…..and herpes……and HIV/AIDS…..are what “personal sexual freedoms” is all about.

A moment of pleasure…..for a lifetime of…..what…..exactly?

#6 Comment By DR On July 25, 2013 @ 10:31 pm

Really Rob? Sex creates diseases? And yes Rob, STDs existed then too.

#7 Comment By DR On July 25, 2013 @ 10:33 pm

Blah, blah, blah. Bippity, boppity, boo. Can we just get the TL;DR version?
(Too Long; Did not Read)

Yep, and although all of them deny it, I’m convinced every hospital in America has a secret storeroom where they keep the birds and lambs that they use to sacrifice one in order to dip into its blood the other and then wipe it on the patient to cure their leprosy .

Afterall, its in the Bible (Leviticus)! It’s God’s own words, his “Law of the Leper”! It must be true!

Hmmmm, maybe they keep them on the same floor as the faith healers…

#10 Comment By mrfxx On July 26, 2013 @ 8:03 am

Good observations – I supposed that’s also the source of the “sin of Onan” (masturbation – also a serious “sin” in the Old Testament).

#11 Comment By johnrpack On July 26, 2013 @ 8:35 am

Rev. Kat Holiday appears to be an expert at torturing the Bible to get it to say what she wants. I think she forgets that until just a few years ago no one ever used the term marriage to mean anything other than a man and woman.

#12 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 8:52 am

First, you Kat yourself torture the Bible. You can’t possibly understand what the word “all” means in Heb 13:4 if you also don’t understand what the word “marriage” means as clearly defined by Jesus (Matt 19:5,6). If you have perverted the word “marriage” to mean anything other than a covenant between a man and a woman, then of course you will also see a perversion of the word “all” in that Heb 13:4 verse. Anyone can change the truth of God’s Word into a lie, but that doesn’t make it one. The truth remains the truth.

It’s no secret that God and homosexuals naturally have opposing beliefs. That which homosexuals call “love” God calls a “vile affection” (Rom 1:26) and an abomination (Lev 18:22). Homosexuals may certainly argue their opinions, but they cannot base their arguments on the Bible, because the Bible says just the opposite of what homosexuals want it to say.

#13 Comment By primafacie On July 26, 2013 @ 9:16 am

I’m no Biblical scholar, but I take the verse to which Rev. Holiday refers to mean that the institution is honorable, with nothing said about the qualifications of the participants.

#14 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 9:28 am

And it was “just a few years ago” that many white Bible readers read that book’s references to slavery as sacrosanct, using it to enable the enslavement of millions of human beings. I hope we have moved beyond believing that owning other human beings is ever justified, that wives must “submit” to their husbands (no one is “torturing” the Bible’s words here).

Just so, marriage is an honorable institution for “all”, not just heterosexuals. Today, the then-crucial necessity that all marriages be between a man and woman (for inheritance and land-owning and other such economic purposes) can likewise be reasonably reinterpreted to allow more to experience this “honorable institution”. Times change and so can the particulars of the Bible.

#15 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 9:31 am

I’ll take the learned reverend’s words more seriously on this topic than those of “Reverend Dmember”.

And I’d like to watch as you read your second paragraph to a group of LGBT Christians, of which there are millions. I want to WATCH as you calmly tell a same-sex couple that has been together for decades that their time-tested love and allegiance is a “vile affection”, and “abomination”. How dare you!

#16 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 10:02 am

tomfromthenews….It is not I who says that homosexual behavior is a vile affection and an abomination. It is God. And so I will leave it to God to Judge between the real Christians who believe His Word and let it be true and the ‘professing Christians’ who pervert His Word into a lie to suit their own abominable vile affections.

#17 Comment By Tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 10:18 am

Again, I just want to witness you face an LGBT couple with your opinion and witness the reaction to your sanctimonious pomposity. But I doubt you would have the cojones.

#18 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 10:28 am

Again, God is the one who will face those with sexual perversions to Judge them, not me. So then God their Judge is the one you accuse of sanctimonious pomposity, not me. Need I wonder what any of your reactions to His judgments will be? I think not.

#19 Comment By petty_patrol_tengu On July 26, 2013 @ 10:41 am

“MY INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE IS MORE VALID THAN OTHERS AND IS THE TRUTH”

Dmember, you’re committing the exact offense that you’re criticizing, using the bible’s words to fit your own beliefs and hiding behind it as the “truth’ as though it grants legitimacy to your position. Believe whatever you want but don’t enforce your interpretation upon others.

#20 Comment By petty_patrol_tengu On July 26, 2013 @ 10:42 am

You literally just judged them, calling them perverts and accused them of committing a “vile attrition” in the eyes of God. Stop hiding behind a higher power to justify your bigotry.

#21 Comment By petty_patrol_tengu On July 26, 2013 @ 10:44 am

It used to mean the union between a man and many women, or a man and his hundreds of concubines, or a man and his rape victim. Marriage has changed many times throughout history.

STDs existed then too, HIV did not because it had not spread to humans until very recently, likely when a man was hunting monkeys. What a convenient argument you have there.

#24 Comment By holyreality On July 26, 2013 @ 11:02 am

You may as well ask that the rain not get you wet.

#25 Comment By holyreality On July 26, 2013 @ 11:06 am

When critically reading the bible and discussing it with my fundie buddy, she admonished me to pray to the Holy Spirit to “be with me” as I read of massive genocide, sister raping, treacherous doublecrossing, and of course the “word of God”.

I took the Holy Spirit to mean accepting the word as from God, and to dismiss my questions as to why I should worship such an insecure, jealous, and capricious deity.

#26 Comment By johnrpack On July 26, 2013 @ 11:30 am

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. However, it’s one thing to ignore what the Bible says, claim that no God exists, or to argue that it’s time for a new standard.

It’s quite another to suggest, as Holiday does, that the Apostle Paul meant to include gay marriage when he said marriage is honorable for all. Given the meaning of the term marriage at the time, no such interpretation is valid.

The real question is how one determines what God wants in his/her life today. Reading a passage intended for an audience 2,000 years ago may not be the best approach. But I guarantee that twisting Paul’s words to get the current politically correct view is also not a good way of determining God’s guidance. Has anyone thought about offering a prayer and seeking guidance directly?

#27 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 11:31 am

You’re mistaken. It’s God’s truth that calls homosexuality a vile affection and an abomination. I merely agree with God, hence my opinion is God’s opinion, which is the truth of the matter. But although I can judge homosexuals as that which God says they are, God alone gets to Judge their eternal fate. I believe in the truth of God’s Word. Evidently you do not. That is your choice. And God is your Judge.

#28 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 11:36 am

If you want to put yourself above God, that is your choice. God gives us all the free will to believe in Him and His Word or not. If worshiping yourself instead of God suits you, then so be it. But I will worship the Lord God Almighty, that is my free choice. Don’t be angry with anyone but yourself for your foolish eternal choices.

#29 Comment By petty_patrol_tengu On July 26, 2013 @ 11:37 am

You claim that it’s God’s truth all too conveniently. Luke 6:37 – Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

You simply deploy judgement when something contradicts your world view and invoke God’s authority to convince yourself that you are right, even if it goes against various Christian teachings. See? I can quote the bible too to make an argument. At least you’re upfront about it though, if marriage is indeed defined by God and if that is the only defense you can give of the traditional marriage argument then you have lost, for you cannot use religion to defend public policy. It’s blatantly and undeniably unconstitutional.

#30 Comment By johnrpack On July 26, 2013 @ 11:38 am

I can understand a response to a Biblical position that says, “I don’t accept the Bible except where it teaches people to act in ways that I believe are beneficial.” That’s reasonable. In fact, that’s precisely my view of the Koran and, for that matter, most religious writing.

But it’s another matter to argue that the Bible says whatever the reader wishes it to say. That is most certainly not true. Rev. Holiday does exactly that — and, thereby, undermines the sole authority for Protestant faith.

#31 Comment By johnrpack On July 26, 2013 @ 11:52 am

As a Christian, I hope that everyone — no matter who they are or what they’re doing at the moment — will receive Christ’s grace. I think we should be slow to anger or condemn. This life is given to us to grow, develop, repent, and become. God is patient.

#32 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 12:05 pm

We are not to condemn others. But God tells us to judge righteously, not unfairly. Not to warn others but to just love on everyone as Joel Osteen preaches will not help anyone, for it gives no warning. Eternity is a very long time. If you truly love people, you will warn them instead of loving them all the way into hell. Yes, God is patient, but there is a limit to it, and who knows for sure whether today is their last day before their judgment.

#33 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 12:09 pm

Folks have been using religion (10 Commandments) to defend their laws since those laws were made. But if you want to obey man rather than God that’s up to you. No one can, nor should be able to force you to be a believer in the God of the Bible.

#34 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 12:11 pm

YOU are the one quoting Scripture and implying you know what God said and means. That’s the pomposity plainly on display. And since I hold not belief in God, I am not concerned with what His “judgments” will be.

#35 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 12:15 pm

” I merely agree with God, hence my opinion is God’s opinion, which is the truth of the matter.”

But you’re asking me to agree or disagree with something I doubt exists at all (God), so your comments (and worldview) are meaningless to me. That’s OK as far as it goes (you are free to believe whatever you want), but when enough people use this belief to exert real-world power and oppression over my happiness, I am justifiably indignant.

#36 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 12:16 pm

“But if you want to obey man rather than God that’s up to you.”

Thank you, I will. Just as long as you keep your mythology from running my life, we’ll get along just fine.

#37 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 12:20 pm

“But it’s another matter to argue that the Bible says whatever the reader wishes it to say.”

I think Rev. Holiday QUOTED the Bible, so she is merely arguing that the Bible says what it SAYS.

Unless you are willing to concede that the Bible is open to INTERPRETATION… (dun-dun-DUUUNNN…)

#38 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 12:20 pm

Oh, man, now we’re ALL screwed.

#39 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 12:22 pm

Gasp! “Redefining marriage!”

#40 Comment By petty_patrol_tengu On July 26, 2013 @ 12:26 pm

I agree, and nobody should be be able to force one to live under the rules of the bible simply because the rules “originate” in the bible.

#41 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 12:30 pm

My nonbelief aside (the Bible matters little in the profound love of two people — some nice poetry and good advice but that’s about it), the Apostle Paul didn’t say “gay marriage” because the concept didn’t exist. Prohibition against gay marriage exists nowhere in the New Testament, and the few Old Testament canards are sociologically explained away as economics, using marriage as a bargaining tool in inheritance, etc.

We have discarded many outdated ideas from the Bible as modern reality progresses.

“Given the meaning of the term marriage at the time, no such interpretation is valid.” The term “marriage” at the time, as has been pointed out elsewhere in these blogs, included polygamy and buying and selling wives as property. At the time, perfectly acceptable “marriages”.

Methinks the term has already been redefined plenty of times.

#42 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 12:51 pm

I know that God ‘means what He says’ when he speaks of sexual perversion. As for your choice to reject Him, you are free to do so, with consequences. Hence, I believe it is an unwise choice.

#43 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 12:56 pm

As we know, there is an ongoing battle between the god of evil and the God of good in this world. I vote for the power of the good God, the one you would say oppresses your happiness…. What’s new under the sun?

#44 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 1:31 pm

3,000 years ago, a long while after the domestication of animals and plants, men knew that a male “pole” was being stuck in a female “hole” — I don’t want to ruffle the skirts of the DP’s computer nanny — something got deposited, and, weeks to months later, a baby popped out.
Being men, they naturally concluded that the male was depositing “seed” and the woman provided the fertile “soil”.
Which is why, in the Bible, women can be either “barren” or “fertile”, agricultural terms, while men can be either “potent” or “potent”. Pregnancy in animals and humans was seen as akin to a seed turning into a plant in fertile soil.
Since the man is carrying the seed, the life force, the germ of the next baby, masturbation was considered to be “spilling one’s seed”, and in an age where the push was always on for “make more babies!!!”, it became a sin against God.
When the microscope was invented, and some curious guy looked at the seed, it was immediately assumed that an incredibly tiny complete animal or human baby was carried in the seed head.

The real problem is that, 3,000 years later, after the discoveries connected with the microscope, after the discoveries of sperm and egg, after the discoveries that it takes both male and female genetic material, after all that, orthodox religion STILL sees men as the seed depositor, women as the passive “soil”, the incubator. And how dare women even think about NOT being a good incubator!

#45 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 1:34 pm

Thank you.

#46 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 1:39 pm

“Oh, I’m not saying it, I loves all my deviant homosexual brothers and sisters who are doomed, doomed! God is saying it!

The Bible says the final judgment is after the resurrection of both the just and the unjust. That will not be today or tomorrow (and not until the millenial reign of Christ is over). As a result, I can hope for the best until then — for all souls.

I find no value in telling anyone they’re going to hell. On the other hand, I agree that we should stand up for strong marriages and families and sexual restraint the way God wants us to. The first place to start is by making our own families strong and keeping ourselves sexually pure. Our society wouldn’t be so confused if so many Protestant, heterosexual couples weren’t shacking up and behaving like animals sexually.

#48 Comment By johnrpack On July 26, 2013 @ 1:44 pm

Anyone who relies on a single verse will be mistaken. None of the text, after all, was written verse by verse. Anyone who reads the words with a modern meaning will, likewise, err.
Yes, I agree with Paul that all the marriages sanctioned by the Jewish state in the time period he was writing were honorable. To add more than the words communicated to their readers when Paul wrote them is a private interpretation (and condemned by the Bible).

#49 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 1:51 pm

I remember a committee hearing in the mid-1990s on a bill in the Colorado state legislature to ban the recognition by the State of Colorado of same-sex marriages from other states.
Numerous gay and lesbian couples got up, and testified, in opposition to the bill, about their lives together, their joys and sorrows, good times and bad, in sickness and in health, they had shared together — for many, many years.
Then a man got up to testify in favor of the bill, and started talking about gays and lesbians “shacking up”. He repeated the phrase several times during his testimony. Finally, the committee chair, an old conservative, had enough. He slammed his gavel, repeated that he had asked all people testifying to use respect, that he and the other committee members had just heard couples’ testimony about lives shared for decades, that he, the chair, did NOT consider that to be “shacking up”, and if the person testifying refused to stop using that phrase, the chair would have the Sargent at Arms escort the man out, physically if necessary. The man simply got up and left.
Now, the committee chair was in favor of the bill, it passed out of committee, but even with him not approving of same-sex marriage, he nonetheless understood respect, dignity, common decency.
Too many people don’t.

#50 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 1:55 pm

“I find no value in telling anyone they’re going to hell.”

Thank you, Amen, Hallelujah.

#51 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 1:58 pm

johnrpack….you can’t blame heterosexuals for homosexual sin. And I wouldn’t count on having 1000 years to repent….if you should die today, there is no time left for repentence.

#52 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 2:01 pm

Yeah, we all know the Bible tracts. We can quote them unthinkingly verbatim, just as well as you can.
You DO know that johnrpack is also a Christian, do you not?

#53 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 2:02 pm

peterpi…..your not reading God’s Word on the matter of homosexuality does not excuse you from accountability to God. Read Romans 1.

#54 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 2:03 pm

God can take care of Him/Herself.

Own your own beliefs.

#55 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 2:05 pm

peterpi….is johnrpack a Christian or just a ‘professing’ Christian (a homosexual who needs fire insurance but doesn’t want to believe in and obey the God of the Bible)?

#56 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 2:06 pm

Praise God! I have made God’s faith (beliefs) my own faith (beliefs)!

#57 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 2:15 pm

The sad fact is, Dmember could do it, without breaking a sweat, without a ripple of concern.
He wouldn’t see the label “Christian”, he’d only see the label “homosexual”, and act accordingly.
Just like a certain type of landlord seeing a person inquiring about the “For Rent” sign, might see that person’s skin color, and — without knowing anything about that person’s background, employment status, prior rent history, ability to pay, etc. — immediately respond that there were no vacancies, not fooling the person at all, feeling smug after the person left, while that person has a desire to go home, take a shower, and wash the filth off that had just flowed over him or her.

#58 Comment By Old_Enough On July 26, 2013 @ 2:19 pm

Who the hell are you to question another person’s Christianity or any other belief system? Good grief!

#59 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 2:32 pm

johnrpack can speak for himself, but since you asked me,
He and I have had many an exchange of views. He’s too conservative/libertarian for my taste, I’m too liberal for his, but,
Somehow I never doubted the sincerity of his Christian faith, and I don’t think he doubts my spiritual beliefs — primarily because he feels it’s none of his business!
Regarding johnrpack’s sexual orientation — that’s none of my business!
Regarding how much fire insurance coverage johnrpack has on his property(ies) — that’s none of your business!

#60 Comment By holyreality On July 26, 2013 @ 2:54 pm

Actually I choose not to believe in some invisible man who depends on my worship.

The bible is great allegory, the fables and myths are a powerful model to use in finding whatever small slice of truth one seeks within.

#61 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 3:06 pm

Old_Enough…oh forgive me, I thought you were questioning mine…. lol

#62 Comment By DR On July 26, 2013 @ 3:27 pm

You are far more kinder in your view of the Bible than I am. Are there little nuggets of good in it? Sure. But nothing profound or groundbreaking that wasn’t already known or practiced in most every culture preceding it. Nor does it excuse the horrible atrocities that are also find within it.

If you’re searching for “truth” or morality, the Bible is one of the worst places to look.

#63 Comment By kelcy On July 26, 2013 @ 3:32 pm

Given that the word marriage dates back only to the 11th century one is hard pressed to relate it to the bible in any of its early iterations. I doubt the word was at all in the bible until then as it was not the concept we understand today.

#64 Comment By holyreality On July 26, 2013 @ 3:36 pm

Thanks,

I robustly recommend that everyone forsake any search for truth as there is no ultimate truth. Personally I find a search for the mystery far more satisfying.

#65 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 3:53 pm

How do you “know” this? You might believe it, but that’s a very different matter.

And how can you tell me that, because I choose to engage my brain, there will be (implied negative) “consequences”? Sheesh.

#66 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 3:56 pm

“Praise God! I have made God’s faith (beliefs) my own faith (beliefs)!”…and I won’t stop until I try my best to intimidate you into following MY faith, on peril of your soul!

What arrogance.

#67 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 4:01 pm

“As we know….” “We” know no such thing.

And if there IS a God, I’m sure She would say, “And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

For you (or any mere mortal) to denigrate my love because of your faith is to place YOUR soul at great peril, I would think. Your faith does not make the world a better place. But anyone’s love for another surely does.

#68 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 4:02 pm

Don’tcha know?
Brains are optional?

#69 Comment By peterpi On July 26, 2013 @ 4:06 pm

Ooooh. Ooooh! No ultimate truth?!?!
You’re one of them situational ethicists that is leading our nation to doom!
Doom! I say!
No eternal dessert for you!

How’m I doin’? Think I’m ready for my own cable show?

#70 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 5:30 pm

tomfromthenews….what you call ‘love’ God calls a vile affection and an abomination. I choose to believe him and not pervert the truth.

#71 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 5:31 pm

What does your brain have to do with sexual sin? lol

#72 Comment By Dmember On July 26, 2013 @ 5:34 pm

God speaks of those who are offended by Him and His faith (beliefs). So it’s no surprise to me when folks reject Him and his faith.

#73 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 5:48 pm

You are a sad little man therefore.
I am so sorry for you.

#74 Comment By tomfromthenews On July 26, 2013 @ 7:54 pm

As a non-believer, it is ABSOLUTELY no surprise.

#75 Comment By holyreality On July 27, 2013 @ 11:22 am

Aren’t ALL ethics situational?

Dogma has no place in ethical considerations.

#76 Comment By A reader On July 28, 2013 @ 8:30 pm

God gave His people the Bible to help them live by God’s word. Yes, I agree that we should not judge each other. God leaves judgement up to Jesus. There are many “sins” mentioned in the “Bible”. One of which is sex between same-sex persons. As a sin it will be judged by Jesus in the final judgement. There are many sins we do every day (divorce, swearing, adultery, telling lies, etc.), but that doesn’t mean that we can’t be Christians. From God’s perspective, having sex with a same-sex person is just like every other sin; they create a barrier between you and Him. but Jesus Christ died on the cross to remove that barrier. Turn away from your sin, confess that He is God’s Son, and He will forgive you. Even if we do this, we will still sin as only Jesus was sinless. Still our sins will be forgiven. However, in the Judgement Day, Christians’ lives will be judged.

#77 Comment By petty_patrol_tengu On July 29, 2013 @ 11:38 am

Eating fish without fins is also a sin according to the bible. If you’re a Christian, leaving it up to God to judge is a good philosophy. Surely there aren’t many Christians trying to ban that yet there are many trying to ban gay marriage. Christians receive less criticism for believing in something and more for passing judgement and imposing it on others and on the legal system. Remove the gay marriage ban. Christians may believe what they want but they shouldn’t be able to control the lives of others because of their beliefs.