Wiley

Before Dizzee Rascal became the face of grime, he was a member of the Roll Deep Crew, a rotating group of rappers, DJs, and producers from East London. Roll Deep is led by the rapper/producer Wiley, Dizzee's former mentor and a man Pitchfork's Jess Harvell called, "grime's bedrock." Wiley isn't going to drop any jaws as an MC, but his production style is a thing of beauty-- Timbaland on a paranoid caffeine buzz, huge wobbly bass almost drowning out jittery nervous drums. In 2002 and 2003, Wiley released a series of 12-inches before dropping Treddin' on Thin Ice, his criminally underrated solo album, last year. A few months ago, In at the Deep End, the first Roll Deep album, came out in the UK, and the group came to New York last week for a show at the Knitting Factory, where their contemporary Kano would play the next night.

This interview took place outside New York club the Knitting Factory with car horns and sirens in the background and some drunk dude interjecting every so often, but Wiley still found time to talk about rave violence, new jack swing, and his attempt to break America.

Pitchfork: Who were you talking about last night when you said, "Somebody's about to get their career ended?

Wiley: It's nothing, really. It's just a personal thing; we spar with each other when we MC together.

Pitchfork: So it was friendly chatter between you and Roll Deep?

Wiley: Yeah, me and my friends. Yesterday we was nearly going to battle. It made me mad, innit? Because I was drunk, and I couldn't remember my lyrics. I was like, "No! I can't remember my lyrics!"

Pitchfork: So what about Roll Deep? People are talking about Dizzee Rascal, Kano, you, but not so much about Roll Deep.

Wiley: That's why Roll Deep, at the moment, is doing their album thing. I let them do that on their own so that it takes the focus off me so people can try to listen to them; it's not just me or Dizzee. They need to earn a name for themselves.

Pitchfork: Is this your first time in America?

Wiley: No, I've been loads of times, but not to do music. I just come on holiday.

Pitchfork: Compared to a British crowd, what are the crowds at the Knitting Factory like?

Wiley: They're open-minded, and that's a good thing. We all speak English, and we've been listening to hip-hop for ages and ages.

Pitchfork: When Diplo was spinning, people weren't really dancing; they were just kind of watching. When people go see grime in the UK, do they dance, or do they just watch?

Wiley: They do dance. There's a lot of hype in the UK. In London, it's a bit rough because of all the trouble [with violence at raves]. Outside London, it's all right, but there's still trouble. Trouble is hindering the situation a bit right now. Things spoil the rave, and then they still go wrong anyway, regardless of dancing.

Pitchfork: It's a rough scene in England, isn't it?

Some drunk guy: I don't know what you're talking about but um how many people would you consider to be in Roll Deep?

Wiley: It's like 13 people. Not all are MCs; some are DJs or producers. We've got a big movement, and we're trying to push it with everyone, not just Roll Deep. Kano, Dizzee, Lethal B-- everyone is trying to push the movement.

Pitchfork: This Houston shit is blowing up in America, the screwing and chopping and all that. Is it the same in England, with Mike Jones and all that?

Wiley: Yeah.

Pitchfork: Have you though about screwing and chopping the grime? Because that stuff's all fast.

Wiley: I went to Atlanta, where they're deep into it. And Dizzee, he grew up on [Southern hip-hop], so he was telling me about this stuff, and I was listening, but not properly. And then I started to listen properly and realized he's a product of them, Mannie Fresh and all that.

Pitchfork: I used to live in England. I saw Outkast there, and opening for them was this group 57th Dynasty. I guess that was British rap, not so much grime.

Wiley: Yeah, they grew up on that American rap, and they used to even speak American with each other. That was their phase. I always really loved it, but I never really grew up on it. I grew up on swingbeat.

Pitchfork: So when do you think grime became its own thing, aside from garage and British rap?

Wiley: A few years ago, when the Kanos and Dizzees came into it. I was seeing them, and I wasn't even really ready yet; I was a producer then. I didn't rap that much. I had to go home and practice and elevate it.

Pitchfork: So you were just producing back in your early days?

Wiley: Yeah, I used to track drum & bass.

Pitchfork: Can you pinpoint the first song or the first album where you knew that this was its own thing now?

Wiley: Yeah, Dizzee.

Pitchfork: Are there going to be any big collaborations between the UK and America?

Wiley: Not yet, but I want to try and work with Dipset and try and do tunes. It'll bring out our best and make us try harder.

Pitchfork: In England, the grime sound is changing. The Roll Deep album is very r&b-influenced. Where do you think grime is going?

Wiley: I want it to be chart music. I want to make a grime beat, get a singer to do her thing, and then chart it. Like Missy Elliott, she could get grime into the charts. And I'm trying to travel; that's my main thing.

Pitchfork: Where are you trying to go besides America?

Wiley: I want to do Europe-- Italy or whatever. I've been to Ethiopia. It's just about getting to all them places.

Pitchfork: You've got a good show and everything, but Kano had a bit more energy, right?

Wiley: You know what it is with him? He's got his whole show locked tight. I respect him. He's young; he's got energy. I've got a lot of respect for him; I just said that to him. He's very tight. Because I go through too much things in life, I ain't got as much time to devote to it. What I've done is I've just turned my back on everything because you can't do it unless you turn your back and you concentrate. What he's done, though, I've started to do. Usually, I might not have even come here. I might've stayed in London, going through domestic things. But I really want to be in New York. I lost focus a bit because I've got too much to do.

Pitchfork: Are people in London really focused on breaking through in America?

Wiley: Yeah.

Pitchfork: Is that pissing people off in London?

Wiley: Not necessarily. We want you to do it as well, for American producers to lock on to the situation. Everywhere we go, we meet producers all time, and they give us beats. That's a different thing, and that's what we want.