As good, a new #2 thread. Biggest thing to strike me: Even more than #1, in this one I can really hear the actors performing in my head. So the dialogue and characterizations seem to be pretty spot on.

I don't usually hear the actors (except Xander's "frown" line in #1), but the characters' voices did ring very true to me nonetheless. Except Giles' voice for some reason. I'm not sure what was different there, for me.

I liked that Dawn's lines seemed in character yet a little older. Visually and verbally she's a very fun character to read. Still arguing with Buffy, but also strikingly more like Buffy in her snarky dialogue with Xander.

I actually knew it was supposed to be Andrew by the way the...picture?...no there is a comics word for it...was framed. That sudden close-up of his face speaking directly to the audience immediately said Andrew, even though the features did not.

Not to sound silly or anything, but how on earth can I just... get these comics? My work schedule doesnt work with comic schedules, and I cant find them at any bookstore, nor do I have the time to hunt. Is there somewhere I can SUBSCRIBE and get them all? Am I too behind to get issue #1?

This is KILLING me. It was so much easier to just turn on my tv. Help!!

We were debating "Star Wars vs Serenity" in another thread earlier in the week and its funny to me that in this discussion of guns in Buffy, the first thing I think of, is the Jedi's light saber. You'll rarely see a Jedi use a blaster and when they do, it's only in a dire situation, never strapped to their leg.

In my mind, there's just something wrong with a legendary fighter using a gun.

I'm more concerned with how and why violence is used, and less with the choice of weapon. That said, I think guns are particularly bad because what's shown on the screen is what we also see people use in our daily lives, and because it is so very easy to use them to kill someone. I think it's too real. Swords (metal and otherwise) can be used to do some pretty nasty things to people as well, though. I don't think they're any less violent, just less realistically violent to us as viewers. My idea of a legendary fighter is someone who uses weapons as the last resort whether it's a gun or a sword.

A lot of new comic fans have asked about where they can get this series. Maybe Simon or one of the other mods can put a link to a place where fans can subscribe to the comic - that way Whedonesque can get a little piece of the action every time someone subscribes online.

Finally got mine. Love it! And despite the new face, Andrew is so Andrew. Disagree with the reviewer about the gun thing, too. What's Andrew going to do--tell the story of Warren & Tara? I don't think so.
Speaking of Tara, did you notice that all of the letters in the back have an answer except the one about Tara?

I subscribe to the comic from tfaw.com, but it's not the most straightforward process in the world.

You enter search terms and it automatically sends comics that match those terms to you. Of course, they ask you before they ship to make sure you don't get anything you don't want. You can also put a price cap in the criteria.

"This lint is so Scottish."

That's all I gotta say.

Well, that's not true. I like the slayer and her friends not using guns, however, there's something really cool about Wesley blowing demons away with a gun, and it not being treated like a bad thing like on Buffy. Guns belong in Angel, but not on Buffy. So, basically it depends on the context.

newcj: I had noticed that too! Andrew was "shot" perfectly in his scenes. Also, gotta love the Star Wars dialog. Though when I read it I heard a mixture of Andrew and Joss talking there.

I'll add another option for comic ordering -- G-Mart's subscription offers a 35% discount and is billed monthly. At this point your subscription would only kick in for issue 4. The front page where you can order issues 1 and 2 is here.

I got my copy today, so I'm glad to see another discussion thread for all of us latecomers. I loved this issue!

The fairytale predicament that Buffy is put in is such a juicy set up! And why does everyone assume Miss Ratfink Amy is telling the truth? It seems like a trap to me. Or as Nathan Fillion would say "TRAAAAAAAAAAP"...or not. I'm totally expecting Joss to subvert our genre expectations here. Come on, does anybody really expect Buffy to be "saved" by some guy's kiss? And knowing who's going to show up next issue, I'm very suspicious.

Mr. Long Black Coat Dream Guy is probably another trap. I'd agree with posters in the other thread that Dracula is a likely suspect here.

As for Amy's new squeeze? I got nuthin', but I wouldn't mind seeing an old character or a new one.

Military guy with the mystery symbol? Hmm, a black ops offshoot of the Initiative? Or evidence of another player in the mix, infiltrating the U.S. military to further their own agenda?

I join the chorus of crushees for Xander in Nick Fury mode. Even if he only has two of those outfits.

Have to admit that I'm feeling pretty proud that Joss decided to bring the story and characters to Scotland. Also a Scottish slayer and now the zombie army of ancient Scots - unbelievably fantastic. Of course I've been loving everything else about the first two comics as well, but as a Scot, they're really extra special.

I'm not surprised that there was no reply to that letter about Tara, it's just surprising that it was chosen for publication. Tara was one of my favourite characters, but IMO that letter went over the line. To be fair, reading "I hope there are no mentions about Spike in this comic" in another letter wasn't particularly uplifting either. Hopefully the letters next month will all be really positive as people will have seen at least the first comic.

Anyway, can't wait for Buffy #3. and #4. and #5. and #6. and (well you get the idea).

I have a review of issue 2 letters...I could have done without the hate Spike letter. I just want to put in my 2 cents and say that if Spike DOESN'T show up in these comics I will also "tune out and not buy". Thank you.

I think Amy is jonsing not just for the Slayer, but also for Willow. Willow almost destroyed the world, and brought about the slayer new generation. Amy lusts for power, so she wants Willow's power. Pretty much follows.

As for the gun issue, I'll make a simple observation for those of us without super powers: a gun can even the odds between a 100 lbs lady minding her own business and a 300 lbs thug wanting to do bad things to her. Guns are equalizers, and as such, they can be used for good and evil. If we had no guns, it would be the rule of might, which means the 300 lbs thug would ALWAYS win.

"I'm totally expecting Joss to subvert our genre expectations here. Come on, does anybody really expect Buffy to be "saved" by some guy's kiss?"
Punkinpuss: I'm glad you got your copy, and I think you are absolutely right. It is so easy for us to fight over whether Angel or Spike will 'be the Man' but we are always forgetting that Buffy is the hero. Buffy is not some lame Fairy tale Princess who will lie there until "true love's kiss" (I never liked Sleeping Beauty anyway).

edited to add: I would like to see Giant Dawn come in and take down Amy though.

I'm wondering how Amy could have picked up so much power while trapped in the Hellmouth, but couldn't magic her way out. And why she's after Buffy at all. That she hates Willow, I can kinda get, but why Buffy? I hope next month's big showdown has some motivation for Amy, because right now, she just seems to be doing evil because she's a generic Big (or Little) Bad. A little complexity, please?

Oh, and how did Amy survive the blast? Magic presumably, but, again, if she's that powerful, why couldn't she get out?

And I agree that Andrew's speech sounded like something Joss would say a little more than Andrew. He painted the Death Star with the defective design on the Trio's truck, after all. That is something an adoringly uncritical fan would do, not someone with the critical eye that Andrew is exhibiting in the speech to the Slayer newbies.

Don't even ask what I'm doing up at this time but a very nice lurker emailed me to say:

I'm a long time whedonesque lurker, and I noticed that members were asking where to get comics and that most of the responses contained referrals to online subscription services. I was hoping someone would mention comic book shops and maybe someone has by the time you read this. This website will help people find comic shops near them. I'm lucky enough to live down the street from a comic shop, but I understand that this isn't the case for most people. I understand that some schedules don't fit with those of independent shops because they do tend to close early, and then there's the chance that there's isn't even a shop nearby (in which case subscribe away because I want Buffy Season 8, 9, 10 etc.). However, many shops have their own version of a subscription to compete with online services like tfaw.com. Customers can have a "box" where issues of any number of comics selected by the customer will be placed to be picked up at their convenience. My comic shop offers this service for free with no minimum number of comics (for awhile, I didn't get a box because I'm a fan of a small number of series.), and I even get a store discount for having a box. Plus, because they know I'm a Buffy nerd, they put two (one for each cover) aside for me. I can't promise that all comic shops will be so kind, but it doesn't hurt to ask. :)

That sudden close-up of his face speaking directly to the audience immediately said Andrew, even though the features did not.

I love that ! Didn't 'get' that myself and initially wondered who it was meant to be (a young 'flashback' Xander occurred for some reason - probably the geekiness - despite the hair etc.) but, in that panel, he was 'The Storyteller' so of course it's Andrew. Good catch newcj ;).

You'll rarely see a Jedi use a blaster ...

Because they're "clumsy and random", not "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age" ;).

Y'know, I can't quite figure it out but I got the impression that, in his own geeky, screwed up way, Andrew actually was answering the 'guns' question with his Lando story.

The thing that strikes me about swords, axes etc. is that they're close up weapons, personal. You never forget you're killing someone/thing with a sword as you might with a gun or a laser-guided bomb because they are right there.

Swords etc. also need skill to use effectively. In that sense guns are the 'great leveller' in the worst way since any idiot can kill, even randomly (*cough* Warren *cough*) with a gun, without having to consider what they're actually doing.

I think Scottish lint must mean a lot of wool fibers in plaid colors. Refute me.

'Lint' is derived from 'linum', Latin for flax which is either a type of plant or the fibres from those plants. Sheep aren't plants. QED (well, you did ask ;).

(but agreed, if you wear your kilt high enough, you might get tartan navel lint ;)

Also pleased to see Scotland featuring so heavily. In fact, I wonder if the 'featuring' goes even deeper than it seems.

Mentioned on the .org about Buffy forming not a cruciform but a St. Andrew's cross in her nightmare (and in reality) as seen on the Scottish flag (Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland) and there are some tantalising (and very likely totally imaginary ;) hints about the Slayers possibly being set up as rebels against totalitarian/absolutist rule (n'other Lando link ?). Scotland was, AFAIK, the first nation ever to issue a written declaration of independence, 'The Declaration of Arbroath' (c. 1320) primarily from English rule in that case but the drafters were pretty clear that any monarch had better do a decent bloody job by the people or else he was out. Plus, there were a few veiled threats towards the Pope too (when we piss folk off we don't mess about, it's all or nothing at all ;). It might be it's not just the pretty scenery (and fairytale castles) that made Joss set his tale there.

Given that neither Liz nor various Amy-fans have felt she was ever really evil, and I tend to agree with them, I'm hoping the explanation is AMy 's being insane now, or at worst on a kick afetr absorbing soem darkest magicks ala Willow in "Villains."
Like my Mary Sue charcater said in one of my fica "Amy's well, pretty much evil now," emphasis on the emphasised.

Shambleau, that's a good question about Amy's powers. I'm assuming that the hellmouth is still a hellmouth and there's a hellalotta of magical radiation leaking out. She's obviously gone off the deep end and probably had no idea how much power she was soaking up. Or she did, but was using it to keep her gross boyfriend alive or functioning or whatever it is that he does.

And Gossi brings up a good point -- if you've got Giant Dawn sitting around, why risk slayers when Dawn could just do a little jig and smush all those zombies into undead haggis filling? At worst, she'd suffer some superficial nicks from their teeny tiny swords. She could blow Amy away with one good sneeze.

Mjwilson, I'm sure the whole countryside could see Dawn bathing. How could you not see a giant girl naked in a lake? Of course, Xander has his back turned but clearly he's there to keep poor Dawn company. Or maybe there are concerns that Kenny will show up to claim his supersized would-be mate?

Simon, thanks for that link. I didn't think there were any comic shops near me (I've been ordering online), but lo and behold, there is one! Gonna go check it out today.

I thought the same thing about Xander sitting right by a giant naked Dawn. There's no way Dawn would be that comfortable in that situation, even if she wasn't huge.

Also, I hate to say it, but I'm not really digging the art. I can get past Giles and Andrew not being recognizable, because that's just a hard thing to pull off, but the thing that really bugs me is the lack of detail in the far-away shots. Any time the characters are more than a few feet away from the camera, they get reduced to simplistic cartoons with dots for eyes. Sometimes they don't even have mouths. Jeanty is obviously capable of producing very detailed images, but he doesn't seem to be putting in the effort all of the time. Maybe it's just the result of the rigorous comic schedule.

I dont think there is anything in the comic that precludes Giles from being Buffy's kiss, there is nothing in the comic that precludes Dawn from kissing her either because Amy says this:

"Someone who wants to kiss her, like, their passionate about her".

At some point it could be that they dont know how to wake Buffy up, and if someone kisses her with a passion that they want her back it could be Giles or Dawn too. See, I think in a lot of ways, this kiss is about Buffy, its part of the nightmare, that nobody is passionate enough about her anymore that she will remain like she is forever, that nobody wants to kiss her anymore (could this be any more meta? I mean geez, nobody loves Buffy anymore could be the mantra of TWOP and other places, but this kiss seems, if they go in this direction, to want to show that people do still care about the character as does Joss--its meta to the nth degree if they go that way but I could totally see it), and remember, passion isnt just about passionate and undying love, passion and love go hand in hand for thing others than relationships. Amy says that it cannot be friends or a sister, but sure it could if any one of those people love Buffy more than Amy believes (and again with the meta where Amy represents those people who think either that Joss doesnt love Buffy or whom dont love Buffy either). I envision here a scene where everyone lines up to kiss Buffy, where Angel and Spike and Giles and Xander and Willow and every potential and everyone we know in the Buffy-verse lines up to kiss Buffy because they all love her that passionately (and that could be the scene that everyone will have burned into their head), and the real shock comes because Amy's plan relies on the fact that nobody is passionate about Buffy anymore (again with the meta). And thats how Buffy awakens, she is brought back not by a kiss but by the love and support of her friends who stand up for her. They help her back to reality...

Maybe the other question to ask is, why would Amy come up with that plan? It seems that she believes that Xander's love wouldn't be sufficient - so perhaps Amy is trying to set a trap for Angel or Spike? (Although, did she ever meet either of them?)

It probably has to do with the fact that Amy is simply angry that Buffy destroyed Sunnydale and left her there to rot and go crazy. More than likely, I think Amy's motives are exactly what Willow's were in season 6, vengeance, and hence, the reason for Willow's use of Giles words. Willow has taken on the role of Giles and Amy has taken on the role of Willow...wouldnt surprise me if Amy dies because nobody tells her that they love her...

I quite like that idea jerryst3161, kind of "Clap if you believe in fairies" only with kisses and Buffys (or willingness to kiss at least). And it wouldn't be the first time that Buffy's had a crisis of confidence and her need has caused the 'Avengers' to assemble in a show of support for her.

(from the meta perspective, maybe she'll stay in the nightmare if sales of issue 3 don't top 80k ;)

It definitely seems the case that season 6 is being referenced (said on the .org that "But that's so ... literal" seems to be a wee nod about Willow and the 'magic crack' complaints). S6 which started with Buffy trapped in (what they assumed was) a bad place and needing a little help from her friends to get her out and ended with love being all you need (well, love and magic anyway). Wonder if Joss is a Beatles fan ;).

My argument on the Buffy versus Gun thing has always been the rebuttal for the "but it goes up to eleven" argument.

If a person is a great chef, you don't expect said person to do their best work in an elevator. You give them a kitchen.

You don't give a paratrooper an anvil and throw him out an airplane with nothing else. You give him the tool required to do the job and nothing more or less.

The argument there is, "but if you give a vampire hunter a gun they can take out more vampires faster." No. They can't. Why train a vampire hunter to use a gun? You give them a stake and show them how to do their job.

If a person's specialty is to write perfect block letters on a piece of lined notepad paper with a pencil, you don't give him a paintbrush unless you expect him to use his skill on a wall or something. If you want him to write perfect block letters on notepad paper, you give him the right utensil for that job.

Buffy has used guns before, on rare occasion, when it was warranted. She used that big rocket launcher for example, when up against The Judge back in season two. She didn't go around from then on with a rocket launcher on her shoulder taking out any other baddies that came along. ...Well, once, but she wasn't in her right mind at the time. For the most part she returned to her stake. Occasionally picked up a crossbow or a shiny blade. Towards the end she went with the scythe (with the wooden stake on the opposite side) - that was cool. Ultimately though, her best weapon is herself. Her mind. Her instincts. Her bravado. Everything that makes her her, and from that, if she determines that weapon X will help her accomplish action Y, she'll go with that.

Guns often complicate things. In the right hands they can and do often solve problems. Historically though, more often then not they end up in the wrong hands, and create more problems than they resolve. It's one of the things that I feel Whedon carried with him either intrinsically or purposefully as thematic to his storytelling - even in Firefly (I cite The Fall of Kaylee in The Pilot episode as an example). Guns don't kill people (or vampires). More often than not, stupidity kills people. Guns help to expedite the stupidity.

Hi everybody, I just found this website, Love it! I am the only one in my circle still in love with shows and characters that haven't been on tv for years. It is so great to find some others as excited as me about the season 8 comic! and you all seem so nice ( no bickering, just discussion). Buffy 8.1 is the first comic I've purchased and I am hooked. Have #1 and #2, and I can't wait for #3. I think the Jo Chen covers are beautiful, and the story is moving so quickly it really grabs your interest. Does anybody know how many issues there are going to be? I would hate for this to end too soon.
Also, did anybody else notice that the dream guy is wearing the same clothes as Xander on the cover? Do you think that means anything? Or do the guys just have limited wardrobe?

Also, alittle off topic, but I had heard that any thoughts of a Buffy or Angel movie was no more. Does anyone know, if true, did Joss loose interest or was it just the runaround of hollywood movie deals fell thru? If it's the latter I think Joss should keep trying, as much as I love the comic I would be sooo happy to see the characters back onscreen. S.M.G. and Dave B. don't seem too interested, but what about a Spike movie? Didn't J.M. say he would be interested, if they didn't wait too long? Of course we would need Xander in there (someone for Spike to annoy), and Andrew (someone to annoy Spike) and I would love to see Giles cleaning his glasses and shaking his head at them all. Just me ,or would that bunch fighting evil together be pretty funny?

But I digress. Back to #2 - are we thinking it means anything that in buffy's dream Xander's head pops off like a robot? No blood or anything humanlike. It seemed very Buffybotish, especially when he talks about the lint. Very "marzipan in your pieplate" if you ask me (which I guess you didn't, but, whatever).

Concerning the letter representing the "Willow and Tara" fans, I have to say this - I consider myself "a Kitten," and I'm not going to stop reading Buffy Season 8 because Joss doesn't bring Tara back. The letter represents "an extreme view" of W&T fans.

Now, I would immensely enjoy seeing Tara's glorious return, and if I were in charge I'd bring her back in new and exciting way, filled with tension between Willow, Kennedy and the other Scoobies. I'd also invite Amber to write for Tara, because she's a capable writer in her own right…

Ohhh, look. A tired, cliched play on words. I must be publishable now. :)

Anyway, the whole issue is up to Joss. I hope he converts and becomes a W&T fan, and realizes how wrong Satan… err, umm, Kennedy is for Willow.

Isn't everyone Willow and Tara fans? I don't understand the distinction between all BtVS fans and those that claim to be Willow and Tara fans. And wouldn't Joss be the ultimate and number one fan of Willow and Tara? This makes no sense to me.

I'm a Willow and Tara fan, too, but I don't see that as precluding Willow/Kennedy. I'm kinda hoping we'll see how (or if) the relationship works out (or doesn't.) I'm pulling for yes, but, either way, I figure Joss & company will make it an interesting read.

Oh, by the way, FIRST POST!! (Been lurking here for a couple of years, at least.)

I have never understood the idea that Joss does not like the characters he created because something bad happens to them in the story. Bad things happen to all the characters Joss creates, because bad things happen to all people, but it affects us a lot more when it happens to people we care about. By everything that joss has said and done, Joss is definitely a W and T fan, and a Buffy fan, and an Angel fan and a Spike fan and a Xander fan and a Giles fan and...

That's my thoughts, too. If nothing bad ever happens to the characters, there's no real conflict. Makes it kinda hard to have a real story. I liked Tara, and Amber's portrayal; really hated to see her go, but I don't think anything else would have realistically led to Willow's complete meltdown.

Fantastic issue, it was good to see Giles and Willow again. The baby-slayers being trained, yet not really realizing what it means to be a slayer. Definitely liked the Buffy-development. We see that she still has many issues, especially regarding herself.

For me it wasn't about Buffy/Xander, i interpreted it as Xander being the symbol for every normal,human male. And Buffy's un-compatibleness with that. She just seems to miss full-out liberating sex, which to my knowledge she only had in season6, with Spike. I mean we're talking about a woman that brought down a house with her partner. They would go at it for more then 5 hours, i don't think that any normal male could match up to her. She has more strength in her pinky then most athletic-human males have in their entire bodies,haha.

Then the second issue is her un-willingness to accept the darkness she has in her.
She fully realized the truth in season7(about slayers's origins), but she has yet to come to terms with it. I think that when she finally does, she will be an even better slayer for it.

I'm still curious about who's Amy's boyfriend is, and that mysterious man in Buffy's nightmare. I've heard from some that it could be Xander because that's pretty much the same outfit he wears on the cover. But that doesn't make sense to me because we already saw Xander in the nightmare when he lost his head, so why put him there again. Also why not show the face then? Joss is very much about mis-direction. The dream-guy stance seem very much like Spike, and red was a color he used to wear with his trademark outfit. Yet then again it could also be Angel or Dracula, anything goes i guess. I do hope that Spike finally has a make-over, because the total black ensemble is getting a bit dull.