The Talon is a slow response asymmetric and the Rage is an incredibly fast response symmetric. From deep angles on long patterns, fast response is great. Slow response would make it hard to get the ball over the 8 pin. The talon, in my opinion, is best for short patterns where slower response to friction is advantageous. That's when the tour guys use it the most.

Just seeking some clarification on some of the language...The terms on the Motiv Ball Guide are Smooth Motion, Moderate, and Angular Motion. Brett mentions fast response and slow response in his previous post. Are these terms synonymous/equal? In other words, are Smooth Motion balls always slow response balls or are there balls, for example, that respond quickly to friction but have a smooth motion?

That's a fair question. Here's why I talk about speed of response rather than shape: you ALWAYS want smooth ball motion. However, you have to use balls that respond at different rates to friction to accomplish that smooth motion on different patterns and from different parts of the lane.

While the smooth, moderate, and angular language is simple and often correct, I am hesitant to use that language.

Essentially, speed of response is something that is built into the ball and is relative only to the other balls and friction. While that fast response will be displayed differently in different parts of the lane or on different patterns, the ball will always have fast to slow response tendencies.

Characterizing balls by their shapes is limiting. I could create a pattern where the Raptor Talon is incredibly angular. By the same logic I could create a pattern where the Primal Rage is incredibly smooth. However, I can't create a pattern where the Raptor Talon is a faster response ball than a Primal Rage. Does that make sense? I'm trying to use language that isn't manipulated by the pattern or lane play.

It's the same reason people are so often confused by their arsenal when they organize it by how much the ball "hooks." Well, the amount of boards a ball crosses left to right is going to vary depending on the environment.

I hope this makes some sense. I've been up for almost 24 hours and my brain is mostly mush.

Makes a lot of sense. I've been one to buy a ball with a big hook number but have found recently that less hook actually leads to higher scores for me. Angular balls leaves me in a sea of 10 pins. I've found a more rounded shape with less hook gets more 10 pins out of the way. For example, I got a Scream months ago and hit the pocket regularly but led the league in 10 pin leaves. Doesn't seem to matter whether I am left, right, fast, slow, there are a lot of 10 pins. A fellow bowler said my steep entry angle practically guaranteed 10 pins leaves and perhaps a more rounded shape would be better. So, I got Venom Strike and have been scoring much better with a lot fewer 10 pins, maybe 2 a set rather than 3 a game, and the average is up 10 pins a game. For me, at least, the more sideways my entry angle, the fewer strikes I get. A straighter entry angle gets me more strikes, fewer 10 pins.

That has to be the most useful info I have read in awhile. So talking in regards to what Brett just said. What you suggest on a 37-38 foot flat pattern medium-heavy with ob starting about the 10 board. I have around 350-400 revs, high track, low tilt angle, 15-17 mph, around 4 1/2 over 1/4 up for PAP. The lanes tend to transition rather fast by game 3 they are burnt

I am going to take a stab at saying...we have one of the slowest response balls in that being the Raptor Talon and one of the fastest response balls in that being the Primal Rage. I also will venture out and say we have balls that have response times well spaced out in between the Talon and Rage. MOTIVs current lineup covers just about every shape one could need with a single manufacturer! As always with MOTIV the future will only be better as we continue to talk about this....

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