Right on Joe. We all need to realize that we will not change long held personal beleifs. We do need to allow a fair and reasonable exchange of ideas. This forum is a place to allow that exchange and must be allowed to continue in a free and non-accusatory manner.

It is difficult to view 19th century actions in a 21st century mind set. We should always view those actions through (to the best of our ability) the conventional understanding at that time.

If we do not agree thats ok, but you may have an idea or thought to research or a perspective you had not previouly examined.

On martyerd presidents. How much really meaningfull civil rights legislation was passed under JFK? LBJ is seldom given the credit for the reforms passed on his watch. He also was not a perfect human, none of us are.

Lincoln was not a saint. Neither was R.E. Lee, Thomas Jackson, or U.S. Grant. They were men who made brilliant decesions, and foolish decesions that brought our history to where it is today. The end does not justify the means, but it may be the only option at the time.