I've been putting in a little extra time with my Gazelles lately and really finding that they are like longer slightly beat Rocs. What qualities does a Cyclone have that makes it even better in this department than the Gazelles? I notice that a few people put the Cyclones on their lists and not the Gazelles.

Because the Cyclone isn't just "like" a Roc, it basically is a long Roc. They start out the same, just stable, and progress stability wise around the same. The TP Cyclones is by far the best and can stand on it's own by any means, but is essentially a Longer Roc. They are so much a like in their design, the Cyclone and Roc to get really good distance have to be thrown about the same ways, they love being "flown" and not just thrown. But, they just react the same to the same forces in just about all situations. The Cyclone will actually get to the point where it flips faster, but that takes a long time.

I love Gazelle's, and if I wasn't throwing Cyclones I would be throwing Gazelle's, especially if I could get a Star Gazelle to throw in rotation with some DX's. They are fantastic disc, and probably my second choice in fairway drivers as well. But, the TP Cyclone especially lives up to it's hype. The ESP's could be good, with quite a bit of wear, but I'm not sure it'll ever replace the TP's. I'd really like to find some nice domey D Cyclones, but they are impossible to find it seems.

Thanks Lithicon. Many brownie points to you.

I much prefer the feel of the Gazelles in my hand so that sounds like it might be the clincher. That and trying to stay away from OOP stuff like the TP Cyclones.

Thommie wrote:am i the only one that thinks the accuracy comes from the person not the disc? just an idea..

To be more precise, accuracy comes from the person who knows their disc. You could have 3 different cats...one throws Teebirds, one throws tridents and one throws leopards (for example)_...The guy who wins the accuracy battle is not the one who throws the "preferred" or most popular disc. It is the guy who has spent hours and hours in the field by his house tossing his teebird/trident/ leopard/etc. and knows what that disc is going to do 100% of the time barring any crazy wind situations or whatever. I have been at this point for a few weeks now and with the time I have to give to DG, I prefer to practice more right now so that I can play that much better (theoretically) next time I play. In the Fall, when I have more time to put to the game, I will be that much ahead of my fellow leaguers. I will require less discs due to my familiarity with the two fairways that I am throwing and this means (again, theoretically) less strokes...thats my goal!

I am not saying that you cannot take 2 discs such as a teebird and an Xl and make an objective judgement on their individual abilities to work in the wind, turnovers, etc. ....My point is that SO FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY PRACTICE IN THE FIELD AND TRY TO REALLY FAMILIARIZE THEMSELVES WITH THEIR LIMITED DISCS that you are putting yourself in a totally different class of player.....It has to pay off at some point

"Strange women distributing swords from the bottom of ponds is no basis for a government"

Thommie wrote:am i the only one that thinks the accuracy comes from the person not the disc? just an idea..

While a disc can only be as accurate as the player, there are some discs that are much easier to get your intended flight out of than others. Discs that change their flight too much for small changes in speed, hyzer/anhyzer angle and nose angle are much more difficult to throw accurately than ones that are more forgiving to small changes in those aspects of your throw. The trick is figuring out the definition of accuracy he wants to get the right amount of sensitivity in those areas to make the disc controllable but still forgiving.

For example, a Demon will fly really similarly for a wide variety of speeds, nose angles and hyzer/anhyzer angles. That does make it accurate, as long as you want the one flight it's good at. On the other end of the spectrum you have discs like the Archangel that can fly dramatically different for smaller changes. That means you can get lots of different flights out of it, but it's really difficult to get one specific one. I think what the OP is looking for are the discs that are the perfect balance between those two types of discs.

I stopped playing a few years ago and picked it back up again a couple of weeks ago.

The cheetah was always my favorite driver and it still flies further and more accurately than anything else I've thrown. I throw mostly forehand (sidearm). I bought a beast, boss, groove, and wraith, and those "high-speed" discs seem to fade pretty hard. I can't get any of them to fly like a cheetah.

Unfortunately, the cheetah doesn't seem to be currently made with any plastic except for DX. Durability is a strong concern for me. I play on wooded courses, and my discs take a severe beating. A disc made with DX plastic is good for 1 or 2 rounds before it flies unpredictably for me. (I've never seen the benefits of "worn in". For me, the best disc to throw is a brand new Cheetah. But mine always hit trees hard. They don't have a chance to get "worn in" by hitting grass and dirt.)

So, I'm looking for a disc very similar to a cheetah that comes in Star plastic, or at least Champion. My ideas right now are Leopard and Valkyrie. Is TeeBird a lot like a Cheetah?

Or maybe I need to learn to throw the newer discs. The Polaris seems almost like a cheetah, and it comes in more durable plastic...

logjammin wrote:I stopped playing a few years ago and picked it back up again a couple of weeks ago.

The cheetah was always my favorite driver and it still flies further and more accurately than anything else I've thrown. I throw mostly forehand (sidearm). I bought a beast, boss, groove, and wraith, and those "high-speed" discs seem to fade pretty hard. I can't get any of them to fly like a cheetah.

Unfortunately, the cheetah doesn't seem to be currently made with any plastic except for DX. Durability is a strong concern for me. I play on wooded courses, and my discs take a severe beating. A disc made with DX plastic is good for 1 or 2 rounds before it flies unpredictably for me. (I've never seen the benefits of "worn in". For me, the best disc to throw is a brand new Cheetah. But mine always hit trees hard. They don't have a chance to get "worn in" by hitting grass and dirt.)

So, I'm looking for a disc very similar to a cheetah that comes in Star plastic, or at least Champion. My ideas right now are Leopard and Valkyrie. Is TeeBird a lot like a Cheetah?

Or maybe I need to learn to throw the newer discs. The Polaris seems almost like a cheetah, and it comes in more durable plastic...

Just to let you know, the innova factory store has star cheetahs for sale.

The only fairway driver that I use that is classified as a fairway driver is a star leopard. I mostly use mid-ranges for similar shots depending on the throw that is needed to be made. ( esp wasp, flx z wasp, z buzz ss, x comet, r-pro cro, flx drone, cfr champ cro)

logjammin wrote:So, I'm looking for a disc very similar to a cheetah that comes in Star plastic, or at least Champion. My ideas right now are Leopard and Valkyrie. Is TeeBird a lot like a Cheetah?

Or maybe I need to learn to throw the newer discs. The Polaris seems almost like a cheetah, and it comes in more durable plastic...

Having not been a cheetah thrower myself, I'm going to go solely off of what the cheetah is supposed to do with a -2 turn and a 2 fade rating. I'm assuming that is accurate; it will turn some and fade some for you. An eagle-x would be like a faster cheetah, although I'm willing to bet that it will start out much more overstable than a dx cheetah when new. A teebird will have a much more neutral flight (I didn't say straight zj ) than the cheetah, not turning as much and, being faster, probably fading as much as, if not more. I've only ever thrown a QPLS (polaris) and it is much more stable than you will probably want as a cheetah replacement.

I think you'd be happy with a QJLS, to be honest. A little bit of turn, a little bit of fade. If you want more stable, its my understanding that the Sirius (star) JLS is more stable. Or for less stable, after some wear of course, you can go with the Millennium (pro) plastic.

logjammin wrote:I've also been throwing a Sirius Polaris (what a name) LS by millennium, which, according to the stamp on the bottom, is made in the innova factory. That takes a flight very similar to a cheetah.

Eh, Sirius is the plastic (Star) and Polaris is the product line, consisting of the LS (Long Straight) and LF (Long Fade) models. Millennium names are pretty logical.

And yeah, all Millennium discs are designed and manufactured by Innova, as are Discmania discs. In the same vein Discraft does DGA discs and Latitude 64 does Westside discs (though Westside at least do the molds themselves, and don't use Latitude parts).

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.