7 takeaways from the Danville debate

Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan competed in a lively, messy, loud and largely inconclusive debate at Centre College last night. Ninety minutes later, little had changed to alter the trajectory of the race.

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Below, POLITICO’s seven takeaways:

It was a brawl

Candidate debates that take place seated at a table tend to reduce the potential for nastiness and engagement.

Not this time.

Biden got the memo about not duplicating President Obama’s listless sleepwalk in Denver, and seems to have read it repeatedly. Aggressive from the get-go, he threw his hands in the air, guffawed as Ryan spoke, interrupted his rival and belittled him (“this guy,” “my friend.”). He flashed his teeth frequently and grinned incessantly.

“That’s a bunch of stuff,” Biden chided Ryan as he talked about Iran potentially achieving nuclear weapon capability (he made clear he meant a different word that starts with "s."). He seemed to run out of steam in the final 20 minutes, but kept the performance up for the bulk of the debate.

Ryan returned punches not quite as hard as he got them – he is not the attack dog Biden is – but bit back by mocking the vice president’s penchant for gaffes (he said that Biden knows as well as anyone that sometimes words don’t come out right).

It was fun for politics-lovers, but it’s unclear how appealing the style of the Biden performance was to average voters who were watching. And in those exchanges, Ryan frequently did well by simply keeping calm.

And Biden’s open disdain for Ryan was a far cry from the measured, older candidate schooling the newbie performance voters saw from Dick Cheney in 2004.

It all depends on Tuesday in New York

The main takeaway on the night was it was effectively a draw.

Democrats believe Biden won because he prosecuted his case better than Ryan, playing strongly to the base with a homespun narrative about his mom and his dad, working-class folks and people needing government help.

Republicans believe Biden looked unhinged on TV (a point some Democrats privately concede), appearing ready to lunge at Ryan at certain points – a concept they pushed on Twitter with a hashtag. To be sure, there were genuine moments of weirdness for Biden, but Republicans had set the bar pretty low for him on that front.

Ryan, who seemed to have memorized a number of briefing book lines, mostly held his own, including on foreign policy questions (more on that later). He made no gaffes, and while not dominant at any point, fared well enough for a vice presidential debate. The yawning age gap between them made Biden seem too old at points, and Ryan seem too young at others.

Neither man seemed entirely ready to be president – but Biden has the benefit of already being the second in command (he was also quicker on the draw, though that’s a debatable skill for the Oval Office, and his constant laughing was a distraction).

Vice presidential debates can be interesting and can be launch pads for the people involved, but very rarely move the dial meaningfully. This one was no exception, especially with the next debate between Obama and Mitt Romney coming in less than a week.

Readers' Comments (784)

My first thought was..Has Biden been drinking? but end the end he was just plain bizarre. He could have done so much better. Who would have thought that Ryan, actually turned out to be more vise-presidential.

"My first thought was..Has Biden been drinking? but end the end he was just plain bizarre. He could have done so much better. Who would have thought that Ryan, actually turned out to be more vise-presidential."

Hahahahahahaha. Does 'vice presidential' mean lying through your teeth? That's what Ryan did, and Biden called him on the lies at every turn. Ryan studied really hard, and regurgitated the talking points, but showed his naivite on national issues.

If a 6th grader, running for class president, had done the same thing (inappropriate smiling {both in amount and timing} , constantly interrupting seconds into Ryan's answers), people would have said "he's old enough to know better, he's obviously a BRAT". The fact that a 69 yr. old career politician was doing it was nauseating. Biden is obviously not mature enough to be the POTUS. Biden just made a new problem for Obama, as the only discussion 2 days from now will be what a rude, classless dolt Biden is. Obama back on defense..........

Ryan wasn't very trustworthy with his phony statistics, and the moderator got at that point about specifics of his numbers some. He declined to answer but to assure us to trust him. Biden had a strong fighting spirit in him. Had he only kept the same negative face the entire time like Romney people wouldn't be scrutinizing him.

The Romney/Ryan ticket is serious about improving conditions in America and the Obama/Biden ticket is desperately trying to create a sideshow to deflect attention from the 4 years of incompetency we have had to endure.

Ryan couldn't recite one tax loophole to be closed. You're buying mystery meat here folks. Just look at the pretty Romney-Ryan packaging and hope you get what you want inside. There's you're new hope and change!

I sure wish Politico had done a fact checking article for the first debate. It would have been 6 pages long after checking Romney's points. VP Biden caught Ryan on all except the one about the navy now being back to 1916 amount of ships. That's one of Romney's latest "misrepresentations". In 2007 the USA had the 278 ships. That's the lowest year. We have 285 now. In 1916, we had 245 ships.

Romney says he wants to build 15 ships a year. Navy command wants 10 per year. This is the "cut the spending" guy. I'll bet he won't be asking his rich friends to foot the bill. He won't hesitate to make us 47 percenters pay for them.

We either get an empty chair or a Jack Biden in the box sitting on the chair.

I think most people have forgotten that before 2008 Joe Biden was well known as a psychopathic liar. He has a long track record of lying. Biden even ran twice for the Democrat nomination for President and couldn't even get 1 % of the Democrat vote.

So why did Obama pick Biden as his VP ? I guess every narcissist need a court jester.

It would have been 6 pages long after checking Romney's points. VP Biden caught Ryan on all except the one about the navy now being back to 1916 amount of ships. That's one of Romney's latest "misrepresentations". In 2007 the USA had the 278 ships. That's the lowest year. We have 285 now. In 1916, we had 245 ships.

You might want to back track on that one. Actually the Obama administration even cooked the numbers on how many ships we have. They changed the counting method for the "Battle Force" . You guessed it, a hospital ship is now counted as being part of the battle force along with small coastal craft and who knows, if Obama is re-elected even garbage scows will be counted as part of the battle force fleet.