Today... Teeceezy, has written his first major response to this week...

Comments

@DarkFae I didn't mean to ride into the fray in defense of NG, that was in response to the Digital Content rights information @TroubleMan supplied. If you are purchasing digital content that you own, I believe that the information he posted would be entirely applicable. In a situation where you are leasing access to digital content for whatever time period the lessor wishes to grant you access, it gets murky.

DeadFamily Guild Elder, a Top 20 Global Guild

The Undying Suvivalist--Founding Member and Prezident of the Empty Memorial Club

@TroubleMan I don't know if this detracts from your legal argument or not, but in playing the game you have entered a contract with NG in which you agreed to their terms of service. Included in that (in all caps) is the following:

Also: "We may manage, regulate, modify, control or eliminate Virtual Items at any time in our sole discretion, with or without notice. If we exercise such rights, we will have no liability to you or any third party."

Again, TOS does not excuse a company from complying with consumer protection laws. I'm not litigating this case, but simply pointing out that having language in a TOS does not excuse a company from acting ethically, or in the interest of the consumer.

@lmfgunnut the legal ramifications of digital content providers and consumer rights are only now being addressed in various countries legislative bodies. Quite simply, consumer protections have been established for tangible goods for some time. Digital goods, not so much. But now, as consumers are buying more and more online, they are asking (and receiving) protections for their goods.

Would we be having this same argument if you bought a new car, took it home and the dealer came by in the middle of the night and removed 2 tires, and replaced the engine with a hamster? Would you feel it appropriate if there was a tiny, teeny, line on page 57 sandwiched between a few other legal phrases that 'allowed' the dealer to do so? Particularly if they didn't even disclose during the sale that they were planning to do that to you within a week or so? The answer is NO. Digital goods should be no different.

The deck has been stacked on the content providers for some some time, particularly with restrictive TOS and other murky language designed to protect the provider and not the consumer. That is changing, as evidenced by the UK update to consumer goods.

California also has some new laws, and there is actually a case that has now been assigned to Federal Court that will test a companies ability to sell/alter digital goods after the purchase. The point is that the pendulum is swinging in the consumers favor.

NG and other digital providers need to be mindful and realize that the 'wild west' era is coming to a close. They have been playing fast and loose...and consumers are tired of it. (Including me).

Thanks @MizTy! Hadn't seen that, but they NG should be posting this where all can easily see. This response posting is akin to burying it in the want add section of a newspaper ( I know I'm a dinosaur)! Because not all players are on the forum.

*drama* What on earth is @mongo911 suppose to do about? It would seem as if the "council" has information that has not been shared with the rest of us...@Teeceezy is a game dev not sure how high that would place him/her on the ngo's ladder of command but @Teeceezy is definitely more that a forum administrator. Sorry @Teeceezy but I'm not buying into that one. */drama*

I know, the mood needed to be lightened up in here a little though. It's like watching a dirty slimy rat starve to death just out of arms reach next to you while you sit chained up wasting away yourself in a cold dark dungeon. Do we want the devs to keep having to come in here and answer questions and calm us down or do we want them to devote the bulk of their time into fixing this?

@Teeceezy said:Another issue that has risen is the recent nerfing of the Silenced trait. We reserve the right to make balance changes in-game, and in this situation the Silenced trait stacking with Daryl's leader trait proved to be too much in order for gameplay to not be weighted in favour of players with that combination of traits. We do acknowledge that communication on our side was completely lacking, and for this we do offer our sincerest apologies.

I don't think the right is yours (NGO) to make negative changes to items purchased. Miscommunication, lack of communication, misleading (intentional or not), lack of proper explanation/advertisement upfront, etc about what customers and consumers are getting is generally considered fraud. I don't want to put such a harsh term on it, but that's essentially what is being committed if you, as the developers, willingly and willfully change something like this without letting the customers know in advance. Balance changes are one thing if the customer doesn't pay for affected content, but paid content is a completely different story.

NGO grievously erred by changing the silenced trait, affecting purchased content and said nothing. You waited until the customers found out. Not until after we, the customers, found out did you finally give explanation on why you did it. Although, no action was taken on your part to repay or fix what had been done. An apology was made and some appreciated it, but I'd like to point out that an apology from NGO without action to back it up tells me you don't really mean your really sorry.

On another note, I would also like to point out, stating and explaining things AFTER the fact is not good business practice. The customer should always know up front what it is getting. I will also use the hero tokens for example. How many tokens you will be getting is not explained properly up front. It was not until after I spent all my radios did I stop to think, "Hey, didn't those radio calls guarantee me a certain level or higher?" "Weren't 10 radio calls supposed to get me 2* survivors or better?" "Weren't 15 radio calls supposed to get me 3* survivors or better?" "So why was I getting tokens mostly quantities less than the equivalent of those?!"

Nowhere on the radio call screen did it say I had a chance of getting less. Nowhere in the update announcement did it say that, either. No where in any official form did I find any mention of this. When I openly questioned, a couple people said that someone from NGO clarified it, but honestly? I went searching for that "clarification" in a handful of threads and in numerous pages of those threads and couldn't find it. Even if I did find the explanation, it was too little too late. And in no way should any customer feel like they should search that hard to find that kind of information.

There's no other way to classify this than to call it "False Advertising." Intentional or not, glitch or not, "Visual bug" or not, again, there is simply NO explanation, upfront. Now, what should I expect for NGO to do? At the bare minimum I would suggest, refund my (and everyone else who rolled) radios. Or NGO could compensate those rolls that got less than what was advertised with the proper amount. Or you could go above and beyond doing the bare minimum to repair some of the damage that has been done. This could move everyone forward to return the level of trust of the fanbase and customers.

Do you sense I am expecting much more from NGO? As a paying customer, along with the many, many other paying customers, we should expect no less. Anything less only says to me, "Too bad, so sad..." and shows me you don't really care. I really want believe you (NGO) are not here to swindle/steal from the customer and you guys simply made mistakes. That being said, actions ON YOUR PART, not the customer's part, need to be taken to correct the situation. It's the right thing to do. It's like when my one of daughters gets in trouble. When they come to apologize to us, we tell them, "don't just say you're sorry, YOU need to do something to fix the situation."

I opened the post with great anticipation... and then -- the nerfing issue was addressed.

Admission of fault, check!
Apology, check!

We reserve the right to change things... ok, yeah. High-level, I agree with you there. With base content -- sure. With something paid for? Nope. No way. No how. Yeah, there'll be mistakes. HOW they're resolved is the important part and this has been done wrong from the start.

NG has dealt with something similiar before (remember this?? http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/250/hotfix-wolf-knives-removed-from-rotation-and-replaced-with-corresponding-legendary-weapon). Why wasn't this formula -- or something to a similiar extent -- implemented? That turned a bad situation into a not-so-bad one and it was a small speed-bump quickly forgotten. You had the release and knew what was going to happen with dropping the trait. No hot-fix needed. Disable everyone's weapon. Refund the money without question, and immediately announce (in-game!) the situation, offering a new bundle that people can consider and re-opt for purchase. Maybe even sweeten the deal with a free something (XP? Gas?) to those who bought.

@Aetherhole said:
"How many tokens you will be getting is not explained properly up front. It was not until after I spent all my radios did I stop to think, "Hey, didn't those radio calls guarantee me a certain level or higher?" "Weren't 10 radio calls supposed to get me 2* survivors or better?" "Weren't 15 radio calls supposed to get me 3* survivors or better?" "So why was I getting tokens mostly quantities less than the equivalent of those?!"

"Nowhere on the radio call screen did it say I had a chance of getting less. Nowhere in the update announcement did it say that, either. No where in any official form did I find any mention of this. When I openly questioned, a couple people said that someone from NGO clarified it, but honestly? I went searching for that "clarification" in a handful of threads and in numerous pages of those threads and couldn't find it. Even if I did find the explanation, it was too little too late. And in no way should any customer feel like they should search that hard to find that kind of information."

Could not agree with you more. I was extremely frustrated by the same experience

@Teeceezy said:We reserve the right to make balance changes in-game, and in this situation the Silenced trait stacking with Daryl's leader trait proved to be too much in order for gameplay to not be weighted in favour of players with that combination of traits.

Here is part of the problem: How could NG not know that BEFORE the item went on sale? Perhaps it was a last minute, oops our bad, that they realized it after the sale started. But it feels more like a planned bait-and-switch.

Lack of communication is a problem. But, I suspect that, if they had said "Hey guys, those pistols you just purchased are being nerfed now" the reaction wouldn't have been a whole lot different. Granted, "hey, we are screwing you here" is better than being screwed while hoping we wouldn't notice but that's not saying much.

It was not until after I spent all my radios did I stop to think, "Hey, didn't those radio calls guarantee me a certain level or higher?" "Weren't 10 radio calls supposed to get me 2* survivors or better?" "Weren't 15 radio calls supposed to get me 3* survivors or better?" "So why was I getting tokens mostly quantities less than the equivalent of those?!"

ah, but those are not "survivors", they are "heroes". There were no claims made about how many stars the heroes would have. or so I suspect they are thinking.

@Dale All heroes are survivors, but not all survivors are heroes. All cars are vehicles, but not all vehicles are cars. All men are humans, but not all humans are men. All dogs are animals, but not all animals are dogs.

All silenced pistols are quiet, oh wait... not according to NGO. It's only a 30% chance to be quiet. bad example. lol

know you already catch the logic as you were just pointing out what on earth NGO might have been thinking...

Wouldn't you think that NG would have a group of developers or Beta players testing all their new gear/survivors/heros BEFORE general release to the entire player base????

Paying hard currency for a weapon with fixed traits because it really fits your needs, then nerfing it later is a low blow. Using the "we told you in our terms and conditions we could mess with you any time we feel like it and there is nothing you can do about it" defense just makes it worse.

Glad to see them at least acknowledge there are issues is a step forward but talk is cheap. Let's see some positive action. Thanks

The open letter and the inability for the community to respond directly to it without creating a parallel thread give no other impression than utter disregard and decidedly stalling tactics. Combined with seemingly distracting "special/one time only” offers to quieten the discontent of customers, it is not doing anything to make me/us feel valued. My hard-earned cash is staying with me from now on. Business is a two-way thing: treat me like poop, you won't get a tip.

I completely agree with & particpating with the boycott on spending & watching ads, as I do believe strongly that ngs developers need a much better communication with the player base & even though it needs to happen much sooner then later, they not only need to fix the token availability issue, but also have a long ways to go fixing many other issues & player concerns before the game really starts to go more downhill then it has.
Even though there are still many players that have their differences & opinions on any of these wide variety of subjects lately & well aware that these issues & debates can & will get heated, the one thing I will never support is drama, name calling or belittling of any players or groups as everyone has the right to their opinion & if there are players out there that still want to spend then all the power to them as they have that right, & I personally won't be involved in or affiliate with any group that's just looking for a witch hunt & blood.
The nml council was created by long time loyal players with many leaders & elders from the top 50 guilds that are very concerned of turn the game has taken in the last few updates & really want a positive change for the future before the game slides further downhill to where either more loyal friends & players continue being fed up & quit, or eventually it's too late & issues become unfixable, as we all have invested a lot of time & some a lot of money & all of us have such a love & passion for the game & twd that we would love to see the game grow for the better in the future.
Unfortunately a lot of us have felt that our concerns have gone unnoticed or brushed off that the only way we felt we could or would be acknowledged by NG, is to take matters into our own hands & come together with unity to form a council & not only ourselves but ask our guild members to participate in a spending freeze if they agree with our cause as well, but by all means not force anyone to do anything. As it seems that the only way NG would respond or acknowledge us is by loss of revenue.
I know a lot of people on here think "it's just a game, relax have a kit-kat", & right now a lot of people are causing a lot of unnecessary drama on the forums & really need to eat a snickers as they can get hostile when they're hungry, but none of that extra nonsense is sanctioned or supported by the council as we are more hard pressed & concerned by the real matters at hand, & could quit & play nothing at all, but would rather play a fun reasonably priced game that we all live & enjoy together, then play a game with pricing that's getting way out of hand & losing its entertainment value by the minute.

@Teeceezy -- Perhaps the first step you guys need to do is make an in-game announcement about the refund for Rick's Silenced Pistol. Sure, you guys addressed it here, but we were making a stink about it. What about the 99.9% of players that don't read the forums? Shouldn't they also be informed that they have the right to a refund? Sorry if I missed that message, and if you did do that, ignore the previous statement, and kudos. If not, shame on NG.

@Teeceezy
I'm one of the many who REALLY wanted to buy, especially this week & weekend. I've saved up an entertainment budget for myself specifically so I could step my game up a notch. I've been buying equipment bundles and boosters the past 2 months because I'm excited about the new content. I've got my cash already set aside for when that warrior/asssult/scout bundle comes out. (Does this put me in the A group or the B group?)

I understand that NG had to make changes to keep the game balanced, but can you offer me any assurances that this was more of a one time thing, as opposed to standard operating procedures at Next Games?

I understand that NG had to make changes to keep the game balanced, but can you offer me any assurances that this was more of a one time thing, as opposed to standard operating procedures at Next Games?