If STID borrowed heavily from TWOK, then TWOK borrowed heavily from Moby Dick.

The two characters TWOK and STID have in common: Carol Marcus and Khan.

The major villain in STID and not in TWOK: Admiral Marcus.

The MacGuffin in TWOK: Genesis. The MacGuffin in STID: 72 photon torpedoes with Khan's people hidden in them.

It boggles my mind after all these months that some still call STID a TWOK rehash. How is it? Really. Let's see someone post an itemized list of the similarities. Scene by scene. Plot point by plot point. Theme by theme. It should be easy. Right?

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It's not. Not a rehash of Space Seed either.

My opinion is, if they'd ended it differently (no TWoK death scene rip-off) this movie would be just as universally praised as ST09.

The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.

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Sometimes I think some people here live in an alternate reality? Or maybe it's just that I do.

When Bad Robot said "This is not your father's 'Star Trek'", they weren't dissing the old one. They were telling the new demographic that the new films would have something for them, as well as their Dads.

Yes, Orci & Kurtzman are self-proclaimed TNG fans, but they spent months reading TOS novels - and even made a list of the ones they loved ("Spock's World", "Final Frontier", "Best Destiny", "Ex Machina", etc), several of which became influential in their writing of the 2009 film.

And I don't recall any of the Bad Robot gang describing "old Trek" as "lame and boring". JJ Abrams explained that he found ST:TMP disappointingly boring, because he was an enthusiastic little kid at the Smithsonian premiere and he was expecting a SF film just like the "Star Wars" film he'd seen two years earlier.

I was a ST newbie in 1980 and had just started substitute teaching in the years between TMP and ST II - and all the kids I tried to chat Star Trek with thought that TMP was boring. Most adult fans I met agreed with them.

The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.

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When Bad Robot said "This is not your father's 'Star Trek'", they weren't dissing the old one. They were telling the new demographic that the new films would have something for them, as well as their Dads.

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The "not your father's... " tagline was also confined to a single TV spot which appeared very late in the promo campaign, less than a month before the movie's general release. I think it first aired during a sporting event of some kind, playing to an audience not typically courted for Star Trek or SF genre entertainment.

The "Nacelles Monthly" quip wasn't bashing, either - just more of Abrams explaining that he was making a movie targeted for a wider audience, so that he wouldn't necessarily be focusing on this or that <tech> detail to the degree that a "hardcore Trek fan" might want to see.

L.A. Times interview said:

GB: You know that no matter what you do, you’ll get an earful from hardcore fans.

JJA: The key is to appreciate that there are purists and fans of “Star Trek” who are going to be very vocal if they see things that aren’t what what they want. But I can’t make this movie for readers of Nacelles Monthly who are only concerned with what the ship’s engines look like. They’re going to find something they hate no matter what I do. And yet, the movie at its core is not only inspired by what has come before, it’s deeply true to what’s come before. The bottom line is we have different actors playing these parts and from that point on it’s literally not what they’ve seen before. It will be evident when people see this movie that it is true to what Roddenberry created and what those amazing actors did in the 1960s. At the same time, I think, it’s going to blow people’s minds because its a completely different experience than what they expect.

The upset fans are a loud minority, the majority seem to enjoy the movie.

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The best thing Paramount can do is ignore us because some of us will never be happy. They could rebuilt the original sets, clone the actors and write the greatest hours of television ever seen by human eyes and a small group of fans could find something to complain about. They don't want to happy, they're miserable about something and want to drag everyone down to their level. It's sad, pathetic and annoying. Thankfully the majority of them are confined to the internet, much like that giant head that claimed to be God.

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This

IMO the reason Star Trek will never make a successful return to TV in the near future is because of the rabid fanbase, it can make your project a success but its too dam hard to please.

The creators started that divide with all their bashing against old Trek. "Not you father's Trek", those "Nacelles Monthly subscriber" remarks, the constant justifications for the fast paced style with "old Trek was lame and boring", and all that shit.

Click to expand...

...

When Bad Robot said "This is not your father's 'Star Trek'", they weren't dissing the old one. They were telling the new demographic that the new films would have something for them, as well as their Dads.

Click to expand...

The "not your father's... " tagline was also confined to a single TV spot which appeared very late in the promo campaign, less than a month before the movie's general release. I think it first aired during a sporting event of some kind, playing to an audience not typically courted for Star Trek or SF genre entertainment.

The "Nacelles Monthly" quip wasn't bashing, either - just more of Abrams explaining that he was making a movie targeted for a wider audience, so that he wouldn't necessarily be focusing on this or that <tech> detail to the degree that a "hardcore Trek fan" might want to see.

L.A. Times interview said:

GB: You know that no matter what you do, you’ll get an earful from hardcore fans.

JJA: The key is to appreciate that there are purists and fans of “Star Trek” who are going to be very vocal if they see things that aren’t what what they want. But I can’t make this movie for readers of Nacelles Monthly who are only concerned with what the ship’s engines look like. They’re going to find something they hate no matter what I do. And yet, the movie at its core is not only inspired by what has come before, it’s deeply true to what’s come before. The bottom line is we have different actors playing these parts and from that point on it’s literally not what they’ve seen before. It will be evident when people see this movie that it is true to what Roddenberry created and what those amazing actors did in the 1960s. At the same time, I think, it’s going to blow people’s minds because its a completely different experience than what they expect.

I do think there's a bit of truth to both sides of the argument--Star Trek XII isn't above some criticism, but it's also been the subject of some bandwagon bashing too. But it's kinda the course for all Trek productions with both fans and vocal detractors.

I do think there's a bit of truth to both sides of the argument--Star Trek XII isn't above some criticism, but it's also been the subject of some bandwagon bashing too. But it's kinda the course for all Trek productions with both fans and vocal detractors.

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So true.

I had a big problem with the "Khan superblood" thing, but thinking it over I've tamed my "beast"

The thing is, there would be NO Star Trek right now if it weren't for JJ. Enterprise was the first TV series since TOS to be cancelled, and Nemesis bombed critically and financially. The franchise was DEAD, no one wanted to greenlight Star Trek projects for a decade. JJ not only resurrected the franchise, but made millions of NEW people into Star Trek fans. That is an accomplishment worthy of note.

I seem to remember a report that JJ wanted to do a new TV series that would run alongside the movies, but that the studio said no. I'm not sure if that's true, but it sounds like something that JJ would do.

I seem to remember a report that JJ wanted to do a new TV series that would run alongside the movies, but that the studio said no. I'm not sure if that's true, but it sounds like something that JJ would do.

I seem to remember a report that JJ wanted to do a new TV series that would run alongside the movies, but that the studio said no. I'm not sure if that's true, but it sounds like something that JJ would do.

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Kurtzman and/or Orci have mentioned wanting to do a Series, but, no rejection or approval (Or for that matter a Solid pitch) has been confirmed by anyone

Many of us have theorized that the most likely scenario, would be after STiD proved to be a success (Which it now has), that a Series (Probably animated, not Live Action) would be greenlighted, so that it would be able to premiere shortly after the next movie premieres. No indication that this is going forward at this point, though. (Which would also be a 50th Anniversary Celebration, as well, hopefully)