10/12/2008

PHILADELPHIA, PA — In a sign of increasing nastiness on the left, supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama have been booing rivals John McCain and Sarah Palin, and even screaming “liar!” — with no response from Obama.

Yesterday, at a Philadelphia hockey game, Obama supporters booed Sarah Palin — despite the fact that Palin was accompanied by her 7-year-old daughter. Some notoriously conservative news outlets, such as MSNBC, have reported that there were cheers mixed in with the boos. But it appears clear that there was significant booing, all from Democrats — and the trend towards ugliness is clear.

The emotion of anger has been distressingly present at Obama rallies. Stephen Hayes reports the disturbing details.

This morning at a McCain rally here, a bearded young man in the crowd responded to a McCain critique of Barack Obama by shouting: “You’re a liar John!” He then hoisted a young woman with an antiwar poster onto his shoulders and began yelling antiwar gibberish as McCain tried to continue his speech. When McCain supporters ripped up the woman’s sign, she unfolded another one and the spectacle continued.

Earlier, at a rally in Philadelphia, Obama praised John McCain’s service to America and called for a civil debate over the final days of the campaign. He was lustily booed by his angry supporters.

And yesterday, at a McCain rally in LaCrosse, Wisconsin, another angry heckler shouted “Liar” and other insults at McCain from the crowd.

There are indications that Obama has been spurring his crowds to anger, sometimes launching into what Reuters as described as an “attack” against the former POW and military hero, even as McCain has been cautioning his supporters to respect Obama.

In addition, reports indicate that Obama failed to bring his rallies to a grinding halt to remonstrate the hecklers. Some say that Obama must have heard the hecklers, since reporters heard them. Other experts suggest that Obama is creating an atmosphere that could well turn to violence. As James F. Treacher, Professor of Media Studies at Noesutch University, notes: “If Obama isn’t an evil, racist, fascist hatemonger of hateful hatred, why hasn’t he conceded the election?”

Syndicated columnist Michelle Malkin warns that the recent Democratic anger is part of a larger trend of death threats and other concerning behavior from the left. Malkin, who routinely receives racist attacks and death threats from Democrats, notes in a comprehensive post the hate-filled attacks on McCain and Palin, such as artwork calling Palin a “MILP” — “Mother I’d Like to Punch.” Malkin’s post is replete with examples of the left suggesting that President Bush be killed, and that McCain and Palin be attacked in violent ways.

“Holy crap,” New York Times columnist Kall Prugman said in a brief phone interview. “I had no idea we were worse than the people at the McCain rallies.”

UPDATE: Thanks to Instapundit for the link. Here is some more stuff that would be Very Significant if done by McCain supporters, but hardly merits any mention, because it was done by Obama supporters:

Vandals spray-paint “Republican means slavery” at a local GOP Headquarters. (By the way, the linked story continues to spread the canard that someone yelled “Kill him!” about Obama at a McCain rally. That is a lie. If the phrase was yelled (a commenter of mine says the man was yelling something else), it was about murderous terrorist Bill Ayers and not about Obama.

At the L.A. Times, blogger Andrew Malcolm is asking very sensible questions: Does political restraint apply only to Republicans? And if the Democrats fail to exercise restraint, will the media notice? I hope he is asking his colleagues this question — and I hope his colleagues are listening. So far, however, his own paper seems interested only in painting Republicans as “nasty.”

Have you not seen the McCain rallies. There very well might be some anger from the democrats but can you blame them after what Bush and the GOP has done to the country. And I have yet to hear “kill him” for the left.

Yet the democrats angry outburst pales in comparison to the right wingers.

Booing in the context of a sporting event? Unheard of! Suddenly things that have been occurring at both Republican and Democratic events is more repulsive at the Democratic ones? Give it a rest. I am literally done with this site. There has been nothing of substance added in weeks. I came here for healthy debate, but all I’ve been hit with is horrible logic written with better-than-average vocabulary.

If A+B=C and C-D=A, then Obama is a terrorist.
I am going to find a site that will actually provide a healthy, respectful, and thoughtful debate; this one just doesn’t have any of those things.

I have to be honest that I’m a little hesitant to answer your question. From the stuff I’ve read that people are writing on Facebook, I have a feeling that you are really not going to like what I have to say. But I hope that you can respect that my opinions have been thought out and are based on my understanding of what the Bible has to say on a lot of issues.

From what I understand, there are two things most evangelical Christians have a problem with about Senator Obama: 1) his stance on abortion and 2) the possibility that he isn’t a “real” Christian. Let me start by addressing why these two things don’t stop me from voting for him.

1) Abortion:

For the record, let me start by saying that I think abortion is a tragedy and morally wrong. However, having had an evangelical, pro-life president and a Republican Congress for 6 out of the last 8 years has done NOTHING to help reduce the number of abortions in this country. However, this year, with the help of evangelical Christians like Tony Campolo, the Democratic party has added to their platform the goal of reducing abortions in this country by, among other things, providing greater pre- and post-natal care to poor woman, providing more comprehensive sex education, improving access to education for woman who do get pregnant, providing income support and increased access to adoption programs. Furthermore, 60 percent of abortions are motivated by economic issues. The fight against poverty is a crucial front on the fight against abortion. It is highly unlikely that Roe v. Wade is ever going to be overturned in our country – most Americans do not want all abortions to be illegal. So since this is the case, why shouldn’t we put more money into reducing abortions instead of wasting our time and energy on something that isn’t going to happen? Before Senator McCain started running for the presidential nominee, he admitted that he didn’t think Roe v. Wade should be overturned. He is a politician using this highly divisive issue to win votes.

Rick Warren recently declared: “Jesus’ agenda is far bigger than just one or two issues. … We have to care about poverty, we have to care about disease, we have to care about illiteracy, we have to care about corruption in government, sex trafficking.” I believe this is an important part of the new politics of evangelical Christianity. We HAVE to care about more than 1 or 2 issues. We have to care about the environment, those without health care, the poor, the disenfranchised, those in prison, people dying of HIV/AIDS, people starving around the world. I am voting for Senator Obama because his positions on these issues align more closely with mine – and I’m trying to base my positions on my understanding of how Christians are supposed to be living out the Kingdom of God in the world.

Now to the point about Senator Obama being a Muslim or a terrorist or whatever. First of all, there is only one presidential candidate in this election who has ever publicly declared that Jesus is Lord. And that is Senator Obama. Yes, his father was a Muslim-turned-atheist. Since when do we hold children responsible for the faith of their parents? He has been active in a church community for 20 years, admits to a moment of asking Jesus to be his personal savior, and is clearly in love with his wife of 16 years and respected by his 2 children. Why do we doubt that this man’s faith is sincere? Here’s what McCain said when asked about his own faith:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/16/mccain-is-asked-is-jesus-christ-your-lord-and-savior/

Now I am not one to believe that a person has to have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ to be a good government leader. We have had 8 years of the most evangelical president ever. What has that done for us? Is this country following any more closely to “the will of God?”

Finally, I have to say something about the politics of hate and fear. This fear that is running through conservative circles about Obama’s ties to terrorists is basic prejudice. Governor Palin’s recent comments about Senator Obama “palling around with terrorists” or “not seeing America the way you and I see America” are wrong. Yes, Senator Obama had a professional relationship with Bill Ayers, who 40 years ago was part of a violent anti-Vietnam group. But now Bill Ayers is a professor at the University of Illinois, has done terrific work in the area of juvenile justice, and was recognized as Citizen of the Year in Chicago in 1987. But the real issue is when Governor Palin uses the word “terrorist” she knows that she’s not conjuring up images of an old white professional man in a large Midwestern city. She knows that “terrorist” brings up images of men with different skin color, that it preys into the fears of average Americans. That is wrong.

Politics should bring out the best in us. We should be having high-minded debates about important issues and we should disagree with each other with respect and compassion. I don’t see that in the angry McCain/Palin rallies. I don’t see that when I read on the Facebook pages of people I love and respect that they don’t see how a Christian could vote for Senator Obama.

The world is a big, messy place and Jesus was rarely cut-and-dried on issues except that we are supposed to love our neighbors and care for the least among us. If, for you, that means voting for someone who, in theory at least, is against abortion, then I can respect that. But for me, that means voting for someone who will decrease the tax burden on working class families, who will increase federal aid for those dying of AIDS, malaria, and TB around the world, who will seek to end a war that is killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians, who will work to provide health care for the 50 million people, mostly children, who must go without it in the wealthiest nation in the world.

According to the Dems and the MSM:
– Repubs don’t care if you get sick, they want more fossil fuel
– Repubs don’t care if the temperature rises and drowns all of the polar bears before destroying the planet, they’ll be dead by then (they don’t care what happens to their own grandchildren, let alone ours)
– the world hates us because of Republicans
– Bush lied and people died, repeat until you mumble it in your sleep
– they even out their covert agents if they get out of line
– the repubs are in with the big fat cats on Wall Street and the evil corporations, they don’t care about the little guy, they ruined the economy
– the repubs are anti-science, they’re against “stem cell research” (says so everyday on my radio, don’t bother me with details)
– the Dems are for minorities, so the Repubs must be against them

The last few years I have read how conservatives are being “marginalized”, how conservative perspectives are delegated more and more to the “far right” and to the “fringe”.

On some level this is what must happen before every holocaust, get the public consciousness to not even think of “them” as human anymore, whether the “them” are Jews, unseen embryos, babies born alive from a “failed” abortion, people severely handicapped (Terri Schiavo), people not so severely handicapped (Trig Palin), people who cause problems for the rest of “us”…

Years and years of irresponsible education of the public, by our schools or by the MSM, are threatening to bear rotten fruit. And all in the wake of the “different kind of politician” that is “post-partisan”, “post-race”. He is encouraging a climate where if he loses there will still be hell to pay, for the next 4 years at least, unless somehow a fresh wind of responsibility and integrity sweeps through.

McCain needs to realize “crossing the aisle” gets brownie points only if you are a Republican in Congress and undercutting a Republican administration. He should have taken better notes at the credit Bush got for trying to do bipartisan things.

It’s obvious that you’re trying to compare Obama rally-goers yelling “liar!” with the recent news of McCain/Palin rally-goers yelling “Kill him!” and “Off with his head!” and “Terrorist!”

Doesn’t hold water, my friend. Calling someone a liar and saying they should be decapitated are not the same thing.

So if you wanna talk about rally vitriol, it’s an argument the McCain campaign loses.

Also, since when is everyone at a hockey game a Democrat? Hockey isn’t exactly the home of the “liberal latte class.” Besides, fans in Philadelphia booed Santa Claus at an Eagles game. It’s a tough town.

The crowd saw Palin using their team as a shallow photo-op, so they nailed her for it. The fact that she dragged her daughter into that situation tells you all about her family values: her family is *value-able* to her ambitions, despite what harm she may be doing to them as young people caught in the media crossfire.

Governor Palin using her 7 year as a shield was a cowardly act.
Parents who love their children often do things with them for fun.
DRJ may have let the post get through, but comments that are beneath contempt are also beneath acknowledgement.

I am now going to list every post on this site that advocates causing grief for Obama’s children:

I know there is a Latin phrase that lawyers use that means something like, “The thing proves itself”. If this thread is about how ugly Obama backers are getting (are getting?), then (insert Latin phrase)

I think we already realize that many mean things have happened to Harpy; no home, no wife, job as Fluffer on snuff films – anyone with that much bile and bitterness must be quite disappointed with how it’s life has turned out.

The problem, MD, is that Palin can’t be so ignorant as to think this was going to be “fun” for her child. She was anticipating the boos, and set her daughter up in hopes of deflecting it. She says so herself.

The other idea is that this whole thing was a plot to play to the sympathies of people looking to demonize liberals. Like the poster and you, MD. In which case it may have succeeded admirably.

The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, “How dare they boo Piper!”

The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, “How dare they boo Piper!”

How much Sarah Palin’s booing was political (as in, we hate Palin), how much of it was just booing the injection of politics into the game, and how much was simply booing because that’s what Philadelphia fans do I have no idea. The point is that from the moment it was announced everyone knew she was going to be booed. Everyone in the media, from sports talk radio to NPR, said she was going to get booed. It was inevitable, like the sun rising, which was why it was such a stupid stunt and why it was really shitty of her to bring her young daughter out with her.

Read the comments at the NYT Hockey Page.
Even Palin knew, so she used her daughter as a screen FOX

A carpet was laid down and Palin, dressed in a beige trench, walked on to the ice joined by her daughters Willow and Piper. The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, “How dare they boo Piper!”

And meanwhile even people inside the McCain campaign have expressed concern over the behavior at their rallies: “Traitor” “Terrorist” “Arab Terrorist”

The difficulties of the McCain campaign have led some Republican leaders to express concern that he could end up dragging other of the party’s candidates down to defeat. “If Obama is able to run up big numbers around the country,” said Mr. Anuzis, the Michigan party chairman, “the potential for hurting down-ballot Republicans is very big.”
One sign of that has emerged in Nebraska, where Representative Lee Terry, a Republican, ran a newspaper advertisement featuring words of support for him from a woman identified as an “Obama-Terry voter.”

The Secret Service was called to check out the behavior at a McCain rally. Has there been anything similar concerning Obama’s events?
No.

Nice assumption. I don’t follow hockey. I live in Boston and am usually too busy drinking champagne with my married lesbian friends to bother with such base entertainments.

Considering my interpretation is about the same as the FNC commentator–that Sarah put her daughter up there to deflect the boos–and FNC is pretty in the tank for McCain/Palin, I don’t see how I’m so far off.

You’re right that I haven’t analyzed the transcript of her fundraising speech, but the last time I checked the internet wasn’t law school. And I have better things to do, like figure out how to spend your tax money on Ted Kennedy’s infrastructure projects.

By the by, most of the smartest people I’ve met (you know, those Harvard elites) don’t address people as “douchebag” when engaging in an argument. That’s something people with intellectual insecurities usually do.

Look. No one gave a crap that Obama stuck his brats on Inside Hollywood. Twice. Strictly for votes.

You probably noticed: the Palin family is tough and capable. They aren’t the self-probing cream puffs that you guys promote from the radical fringe to higher office. She’s accomplished actual reform, where as Barry’s only talked about it.

I support the death penalty for Ayers style behavior… so what if when someone mentions the evil bastard that I articulate my desire for justice?

Oh. Wait.
I said that about someone Obama knows, so by extension I must want Obama to face capital punishment too and thus John McCain is a racist hatemonger…
bonus logic points for the “intelligentsia on the left”

A wise person once said “if you don’t want to be called an asshole, don’t act like one”
Which seemed fair, but in this context the person was probably racist and by extension tainted the whole GOP.

The other issue is:
Politics is rough
The world out there doesn’t give crap if Axelrod sues them.
Obama is a puff pastry who can’t stand any heat.

Out in the world where the gloves are always off, and the arena is not at all friendly Obama is gonna hand our ass to anyone who says “boo” even as his supporters claim “boo” is short for “jigaboo” and then go into the UN to demand a retraction.

Obama will give a great, articulate speech that our enemies totally ignore and the world will see see Putin, the Chinese, the Taliban, and Chavez laughing out loud at the hope that a speech is gonna change anything they intend to do.

Victor Davis Hansen once again nails it: “Obama, as I have said ad nauseam, has brilliantly prepped the battlefield to such a degree that a Farrakhan endorsement or surrogates calling Palin a quasi-Nazi or a bimbo, or smearing McCain as near senile is irrelevant; yet one screamer in a crowd of tens of thousands is proof of McCain’s and Palin’s racism and hatred.”

What’s the matter with saying that certain things are worse than other things? I’d rather be called a liar than have someone threaten to kill me. Is that moral relativism?

I would do research on all these things, but I had some downtime at my job (working with the formerly homeless and mentally ill on your tax dollar) before I left, and it’s time for me to go.

It makes me sad, but the entertainment is appreciated.

Dmac, all you’re proving is that the violent anarchists (who got stomped on at the DNC rally as well for causing a ruckus) are marginally more pissed at the GOP than the Dems. These aren’t ardent Obama supporters–they consider him another NWO shill.

I should know, since I shop at one of their bookstores when I need to brush up on my Kropotkin.

I said I do champagne with my lesbians. My vegan lunches are strictly for my ALF friends, though sometimes I’ll have weekend brunch with the transgendered cabaret.

The Secret Service was called to check out the behavior at a McCain rally.

Knowing who likely was pushing for such a response, all I can say is “big whoop.” The Obama people apparently do have a George-Orwell-ian streak when it comes to comments that bother them.

Of course, and by contrast, the bile — including words expressing sympathy towards the idea of terrorist bombings — that spews forth from someone like Jeremiah Wright or William Ayers is hunky-dory and AOK with Obama and Co.

To save you the trouble, I’ve already listed your most likely responses below. Just pick the letters that best suit you.

A. They’re not the repub candidates, they deserved it
B. They’re republicans, they deserved it
C. The sign is too big, they deserved it
D. They eat McDonalds sometimes, they deserved it
E. They’re white and straight, they deserved it
F. All of the above

It’s funny how this particular article doesn’t find fit to mention that at Palin and McCain rallies people yell “terrrist”, “kill him” and “off with his head” when Obama is mentioned but only focuses on Obama rallies. Lame.

I think Jack Klompus will attest that Philadelphia sports fans can be insufferable. They’ve been known to boo Santa Claus. My own experience there at Eagles, Flyers, Phillies and Sixers games was that punks alone of in groups with or without booze like to show off with despicable behavior and really disrespectful language. So what’s new? There are plenty of assholes everywhere. Patterico gets his share of duplicitous, hatemongering trolls too.

I have not heard of any reporters or Republican consultants warn that there will be riots if McCain loses…unlike shitheads like that Philly Daily News bitch or ugly ass James Carville.

When I googled that name, I knew something was up (a play on the name of the NY Times very liberal columnist Paul Krugman, perhaps?). However, since that bit of satire appeared directly under a few sentences related to very serious, very hostile reactions (or threats) that Michelle Malkin has received over the months/years, I wasn’t quite sure what to make of it.

Yes, I understood the satirical nature of the post – but it was immediately threadjacked by the Trolls, and rapidly went downward shortly thereafter. I will try to refrain from calling others names, but when they continue to misrepresent Palin and then drag her children into every action that she involves them in, it will still necessitate a response.

The disgusting people of Philadelphia who boo’d a woman and child are the slime of the earth and for those idiots who believe someone called for killing Obama at a McCain rally you obviously do not read the news because it was a plant from….you guessed it the left side of the spectrum……you classless pieces of bitter slugs of human beings who call yourselves liberals have no clue that anger on the right is not nasty it is thoughtful and makes us get on with sending the worst Presidential candidate in the history of the United States back home to his Chicago allies.

Patterico – I was reading some stories this weekend about how members of the Papier Mache Headmakers Guild of America have been traveling to McCain/Palin rallies in the hopes of drumming up business from the teeming masses of angry frothing Republicans they had been reading about in the news. The result – disappointment, no sales, zippo, zilch, nada. One guildmember, Gaia Granola said “These Republicans are absolutely nothing like the crazed members of the left who could be counted on to order up giant papier mache heads for any occasion – Bush, Cheney, Rove, Condi, you name it. If Obama is elected I think a lot of our members will be forced to go one food stamps.”

Commenting on the situation, one lifelong concerned Christian Republican at one rally said “We don’t need any silly giant puppet heads to get our points across at our rallies. I mean I’m sorry if those guys are out of a job, but it’s kind of a drade school political tactic. I yhink they imported it from the euroweenies or something.”

I typically don’t read the categories (my ADD) and did not get clued by logging it under humor.

I’m afraid I didn’t see much humor in the events themselves or the rude comments that had already hit the thread.

I did not enjoy seeing Obama taking the city by storm with the full support of the mayor, the governor, and the logistics of the City of Philadelphia pulling off the event at a moment’s notice. I do not enjoy the thought of living in a community where such hostility exists.

I especially do not like the thought that emotions are being stocked so if the “chosen one” loses we’ll see a repeat of the Rodney King aftermath or a return to the “wonderful ’60’s” for those that missed it.

One of Obama’s visits was to an area on 52nd Street where my son was in the middle of an interesting confrontation a few months ago. On one corner were adherents to Farrakhan’s Black Muslims, on another corner was a group of Black Islamists of a more “Middle East” variety, on a third corner was a group Black Jehovah followers (sorry, don’t know name, AA version of Judaism). There was a face off due to someone from 1 group having been beaten by another group earlier in the week. It ended non-violently, but the area does not need agitation. People get shot in Philly and elsewhere for a whole lot less. Soldiers go to war and fight for the US so freedom of speech can be maintained for purposes better than vulgar ad hominem attacks.

Sarah Palin made one mistake, expecting grown-ups to act like grown-ups.

Beyond the behavior of some nutcases on the left and right, when it comes to my side of the political divide, I truly do believe it is better, much better, in fact, in some crucial and surprising ways. So if there is ugly behavior coming from the left, it actually does seem to go hand-in-hand with — as things turn out — the hollowness of what they generally believe their politics is all about.

MD – Plus in Philly didn’t you have that newspaper columnist calling for or predicting riots if Obama did not win the election just a short time back. I haven’t seen any conservative leaning journos, the few that can get published, call for or predict violence if McCain loses.

The slime of the earth votes Democratic and urged by their Messiah, they are indeed “in the face” of the GOP. Losers, liars, nuts, flakes and fruit reside on the left and one can see how unhinged they are by the spectacle they make of themselves as they make a mockery of our elections and civil debate. I have yet to see a story about supporters on the right with as much vile contempt as Obamamaniacs. I have yet to see a story obout protesters arrested outside of the rallies for the “ONE”. To whit there wasn’t any interruptions of the DNC by rabid radicals, yet the leftist snuck into the RNC and tried their best (as lame as they are) to steal thunder. No, these are all part and parcel to the unhinged left.

And to those who spout crap about the GOP and Bush BS about the economy, do your homework so you don’t look like the absolute fools you appear to be. The state of the economy lies squarely at the feet of the Democratic party, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and the Clinton Administration.

There is no place for Marxism, no place for voter fraud, no place for socialist programs, and NO utopia associated with Obama – who may or may not even have all the prerequesite qualifications to even run in this race.

“I do not enjoy the thought of living in a community where such hostility exists.”
You’re asking sports fans to to adults? When Boston won the series someone pulled a man out of a car where he was siting with his family and beat the shit out of him, for wearing a Yankees shirt. And Palin was going to go around Philly with a Rangers shgit on before someone in an elevator suggested otherwisePhiladephia Inquirer

Whose bright idea was this? Vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin will drop the first puck at the Flyers home opener on Saturday against the Rangers. With Pennsylvania being a swing state, Palin is hoping to win over a few more voters by making an appearance with the Flyers.
I’m not going to get into politics here because that’s not what this blog is about, but is this really a good idea?

“Stop pretending your side is better than ours, based on the behavior of some random nutcases.”

“Your side” panders to these nutcases: they’re called the base.“In the book, Tempting Faith: An Inside Story of Political Seduction, author and former Bush official David Kuo, a real Christian and conservative, explains how Karl Rove referred to their so-called Christian “Values Voters” as “the nuts,” “out of control,” and “just plain goofy.””

And no, no one high up in the democratic party is as bad as Atwater, who asked for forgiveness before he died, or Rove, or the scum who slimed McCain about his black adopted daughter, and who McCain now hired[!] And no one is as bad as Helms who said “I’m going to sing Dixie till she cries.” And don’t try to come back with Byrd: he’s apologized fully and publicly a long time ago. Should I add to the list? Race-baiting, Red-baiting,
But what’s the use? Any examples I gave would be from “the press” and you know they’re all liars.

It’s not iowahawk style satire — I’m not anywhere near that good — it’s just a representation of how the media could spin some true real-life events if they were as in the bag for McCain as they are for Obama.

Here’s what left-leaning publication The New Republic‘s Michael Crowley had to say October 10th about the stream of media reports of “ugliness” at McCain rallies. Here are Crowley’s comments in a blog post titled “Is the GOP Fury So Unique?” (bold, italics mine):

My friends and fellow prisoners, time for some straight talk: Politico has a good story today about Republican rage at the notion of an Obama presidency. It cites McCain-Palin supporters raging at Obama as a “terrorist,” a “damn liar,” and a generally wretched and possibly illegitimate figure.

This is all nasty stuff. But is it really unprecedented? A pitchfork rebellion of alarming proportions? I’m not so sure. Around this time four years ago Democrats raged furiously against an illegitimate, lying “war criminal.” Indeed some even called Bush a terrorist.

Yes, there’s probably a nativist strain here that makes this uglier than anything we saw in ’04. And anything resembling a threat, or a racial slur, belongs in a special category of contempt. But I haven’t seen many examples of overt racism beyond the smears we’ve seen for months. (Indeed as Noam notes below, race has been somewhat surprisingly absent from ths campaign so far.)

Unfortunately, to some degree this seems to be what happens in American politics nowadays when one side is losing. No one wants to accept the possibility that they’ve been outplayed fair and square.

–Michael Crowley

When a couple of TNR.com participants responded to Crowley’s relative level-headedness by repeating the Obamabot gospel that someone at a McCain rally shouted “Kill him” when Barack Obama was mentioned, this was the response from the blog post’s author:

Michael Crowley said:

I won’t be able to stick around after posting this due to deadline, but two points: I took “kill him” to mean Ayers–not Obama. It’s just a far, far likelier explanation given the context. That’s still an ugly thing to shout–but on the other hand Ayers probably would have gotten the death penalty had his bombs actually taken a life. If I thought people were actually yelling that about Obama I would feel very differently.

I think people may well have shouted “terrorist,” or the equivalent, at Kerry rallies. Liberals were really rally (sic) mad!

The “boy” slur directed at a cameraman was horrendous but I don’t know what larger meaning it really has. Sounds like certain parts of the South to me, this does not strike me as a revelation or commentary on the state of the race. Unfortunately.

October 10, 2008 11:43 AM

Indeed, the blog post that started the whole disingenous ball rolling was Dana Milbank’s Washed-up Post entry detailing the “Kill him” shout. But never did Milbank suggest that Obama was the target of the scream. NEVER. But to my knowledge, Milbank, unlike Crowley, has not corrected the misconception.

Meanwhile, we have had the MSM scrambling to cover Obama’s pinko posterior over the truth about Ayers coming out. One AP report even referred to Ayers as an “ex-radical.” Ayers, who is staying mum on Obama issues, has never backed down from the radical label and would doubtless still claim it if he dared fan the flames by making himself available for comment.

More revelations from Sarah Palin about who the “bad guys” are and who the “good guys” are. Obama and his evil network of “terrorists” are the bad guys. So lets vote for John McCain to stop the bad guys from taking over. Sarah Palin is cool….
Even the crowd agrees.

More revelations from Sarah Palin about who the “bad guys” are and who the “good guys” are. Obama and his evil network of “terrorists” are the bad guys. So lets vote for John McCain to stop the bad guys from taking over. Sarah Palin is cool….
Even the crowd agrees.

You’re a liar. This is what your link says:

“We know that in the war, it’s terrorists, terrorists who hate America and her allies and would seek to destroy us, and the bad guys are those who would support and sympathize with the terrorists,” she said. “They do not like America because of what we stand for. Liberty. Freedom. Equal rights. Those who sympathize and support those terrorists who would seek to destroy all that it is that we value, those are the bad guys, OK?”

Was Palin suggesting that Barack Obama and Joe Biden don’t understand the terrorist threat? Who exactly were the “bad guys” Palin was referring to? A spokesperson for the campaign would only say that the governor was describing “nations that sympathize with terrorists, period.”

This is what you Obamabots do: You view each and every word from McCain, Palin, or the campaign’s supporters and look for a way to imply racism or a smear.

Obama, when McCain pulled even, needed to portray everyone opposing him as racists. He’ll dance around that, but he sends Claire McAsskiss and Bawney Fwank to say it out loud.

#108
Are you one of the GOP people John McCain was talking about when he said “Well you’re angry, and I’m angry too”? Are you angry too? Why are you angry? Are you angry because of the economy or because your party is being slapped about by Obama? Or are you angry because you are a mean-spirited, frustrated little man who can’t stand others?
I am curious, why are you and your party angry?

The media and the left are out of touch. They have become innoculated to the degree of their own anger and rage and think they have a monopoly on bitterness in this country. To see the expressions of anger come from other directions come as as shock to people who have been living on a bubble.

Vandals spray-painted the words “Republican means slavery” on the door of the York County GOP campaign headquarters overnight Friday.

Party volunteers called police after discovering the message when they arrived at the office on Rock Hill’s Oakland Avenue. The vandals also stole about 45 candidate signs from the front yard and spray-painted over a banner that carried a picture of Republican presidential nominee John McCain. Their messages included lettering and symbols sometimes used by gangs.

Come on.. It’s a fact that the dems are insane and deranged. They appear to have very malleable brains.. they take what they think is the path of least resistance.. lazy brains I call it and you know easily led, sheep to the slaughter etc. They are products for the most part of the public school system.. need I say more. The only discourse they know how to have is coarse, vulgar gutter words..words just words (sound familiar?). not fully formed ideas or even paragraphs or hell not even complete sentences.. something like.. oohh oohhh aahhh ahhh.. somewhat like monkeys. I’d feel sorry for them except for the fact they are very dangerous with their mob (sheep) mentality. I have lately come to feel there is a real danger out there for McCain and Palin.. I hope there aren’t enemies within their campaign which is a possibility for McCains penchant of trusting the dems.. he just doesn’t get it.. they think he’s a fool with all this bipartisan crap.. nobody cares about that except him.. he thinks it’s a badge of honor. We conservatives think it’s just stupid. Dems have nothing to offer us. Conservatives are the backbone of this nation. We’re not the freeloading craven neandrathals that make up the dems’ party.

I’m angry cuz the repubs had control
and they f*cked up
I’m angry cuz the media wont do their jobs

I’m angry cuz the dems voted for the war
[sorry-can’t quote the resolution by congress]
and 3 months later-they just BITCHED and WHINED
I’m angry cuz Every major inner city is controlled by dems -and has been 4 40 years!and they pimp black people out..
is that enuff?..
oh yeah-I’m pissed Nanker Phelge won’t call
himself Andrew Lloyd Weber!under-assistant west coast promo-man…my ass

122- surely you know by now that CV dicates that all that dem support went down the memory hole? Revisionist history is de rigeur now. Even though we can see vidoes of Clinton and his minions insisting that Saddam needed taking out well before W was even running for Potus.

Under asst. west coast promo man? Darn it, I can hear Mick Jagger singing that now. I sure sure do earn my pay sittin’ on the beach every day.

Obama isn’t any sort of power figure. He’s a trained television performer and a teleprompter reader. Sadly, he’s just a field n****r for George Soros… the Chicago machine, Daley and the Strogers… really, anyone he could leech off of to get pushed up the political ladder.

Luckily, these entries will serve as great I-told-you-so stuff should this hobo break into the White House. A Socialist all set to undo America and sell her soul to hostile nations and ruthless dictators. Expect nothing less, lovey. We’ll be here to remind you, you were buying a bill of goods called hope & change… just wait to see what actually arrives on your doorstep. You’re in for a real shocka.

Instapundit posts an e-mail from a commenter that captures some of the spirit that surprises the left. It sounds rational and disappointed, not angry.

“I consider myself a libertarian/conservative. Like many people of that bent, I was uncomfortable with Bush when he was nominated. But Al Gore’s increasingly-erratic behavior during the 2000 election made me hope Bush won.

Once Bush won, and it became clear that the Florida democrats were trying to steal the election, I became something of a Bush loyalist. Throughout his first term, I took note of all the really horrible things that were said about him, saw that a large portion of the left would rather see Bush fail than see America succeed, and was alarmed by the complicity (and often, participation) of the MSM and mainstream Hollywood. It wasn’t far into his second term that I succumbed to Bush Fatigue, due to his inability to make the case for his foreign policy to the American people, and his inability to find the veto pen. He has truly been a terrible steward of the Republican brand, and because of this, the Conservative and libertarian causes are suffering.

I’m no fan of McCain , but as I dislike Obama (and love Palin), I’ll be pulling the lever for McCain in November.

This is surely small of me, but if Obama wins, I plan on giving him as much of a chance as the Democrats gave George Bush. I will gleefully forward every paranoid anti-Obama rumor that I see, along with YouTube footage of his verbal missteps. I will laugh and email heinous anti-Obama photoshop jobs, and maybe even learn photoshop myself to create some. I’ll buy anti-Obama books, and maybe even a “Not My President” t-shirt. I’m sure that the mainstream bookstores won’t carry them, but I’ll be on the lookout for anti-Obama calendars and stuff like that. I will not wish America harm, and if the country is hurt (economically, militarily, or diplomatically) I will truly mourn. But i will also take some solace that it occurred under Obama’s watch, and will find every reason to blame him personally and fan the flames.

Obama’s thuggish behavior thus far in this election cycle – squashing free speech, declaring any criticism of his policies to be “racist” (a word that happily carries little weight with sensible people these days), associating with the likes of Ayers, Wright, and ACORN – suggests that I won’t have to scrape for reasons to really viscerally dislike Obama and his administration. And even if he wins, his campaign’s “get out the vote fraud” activities are enough to provide people like me with a large degree of “plausible deniability” as to whether he is actually legitimately the president.

I’ve seen a President that I am generally-inclined to like get crapped on for eight years, and I’ve seen McCain and Palin (honorable people both, despite policy differences I may have with them) get crapped on through this election season. If the Democrats think that a President Obama is going to get some sort of honeymoon from the folks who didn’t vote for him, as a wise man once said: heh.”

Vermont Neighbor and Daley Rocks –
Spot on about those sentiments. I’ll rue the day Obama takes over and he’s already saying that the likes of ACORN will help him set his agenda.

How much of a honeymoon will the media give him, given that they already figurativley suck his johnson? Assclown Chrissie matthews is apparently running right along side him in anticipation of being Pa. Senator in ’10.

My sense is that Obama and his rubber stamp Congress with lackeys Pelosi and Reid running interfernce will surely fuck up the works big time. Why would it not be remind one of what goes on in Venezuela now? Sure, Chavez has opposition but he does a quite job of silencing newspapers and ordinary dissenters. The blog The Devil’s Excrement out of Caracas has chronicled much of the horror of Hugo. Let’s see how abolishing of blogs like Patterico plays out, or the Fairness Doctrine or an Obama Justice Dept. run amok. Being a geezer already, I intend to do my part by paying as little in taxes as necessary. I don’t look forward to something likely far worse than Carter II, due to the long term consequences on the country, but I’m not sure that a McCain as Potus is heaven on earth either what with all those illegals being granted citizenship and ready to offically suck at the public teat.

Sorry, L.N. I fully meant that disparaging remark and to emasculate Obama for the man that he’s not. He is a field hand sent in to do the big boys’ work, with a fabricated jazz club ‘cool’ that looks good on TV.

Not to offend black-Americans but I believe Cornel West would cite the same problem with style over substance. Servitude over serving.

In Obama’s case, it really is about who’s pulling the strings. Words have meaning and Obama is not a uniter. I think we all see him playing the racist card still, and his karma will come back to punish him. That and ACORN are not an honest win.

Sorry I stepped out. Like you know, I have a real life outside this crazy blog community.
LN Smithee, you a mendacious, two-faced lying son of a gun! And you know it. Just like your candidate, Sarah Palin, you have lost all sense of right and wrong. May God forgive you.

#127he’s just a field n****r for George Soros
Need we say more? We knew what this whole Obama-hatred was really about-racism. Carefully concealed in an aversion for his policies. At the end of the day, it’s still about the anger that an arrogant, ungrateful post-affirmative action “N-” dares to lead his masters. But I am not shocked. But still, I am sad. So sad.

Obama isn’t any sort of power figure. He’s a trained television performer and a teleprompter reader. Sadly, he’s just a field n****r for George Soros… the Chicago machine, Daley and the Strogers… really, anyone he could leech off of to get pushed up the political ladder.

Jesus Christ. OK, consider this your official warning. One more comment like that and you’ll be banned.

LN Smithee, you a mendacious, two-faced lying son of a gun! And you know it.

Warning for you as well.

You guys seem to think I’ll tolerate any sort of behavior in the comments. You’re wrong. I’m tired of this.

Oh, give me a break. If Obama were a conservative, you’d be quietly musing that the value of diversity — racial or otherwise — and “civil rights for all” was not necessarily all it was cracked up to be.

#120lovie – That report found that Gov. Palin’s decision was within her authority. What say you?

Comment by JD — 10/12/2008 @ 8:41 pm
JD, it is one thing for something to be within your power to do and yet another for it to be ethical. No one is saying she had no right to fire even her whole cabinet if she so desired. The issue is did it pass the ethics test? This is the findings.

Palin “knowingly, as that term is defined in … statutes, permitted Todd Palin to use the Governor’s office and the resources of the Governor’s office, including access to state employees, to continue to contact subordinate state employees in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired. Her conduct violated AS 39.52.110(a) of the Ethics Act…”
That is where her problem lies.
And again this,

The report states: “I find that Governor Sarah Palin Abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act … Compliance with the code of ethics is not optional…

“The evidence supports the conclusion that Governor Palin, at the least, engaged in ‘official action’ by her inaction if not her active participation or assistance to her husband in attempting to get Trooper Wooten fired [and there is evidence of her active participation.] She knowingly, as that term is defined in the above cited statutes, permitted Todd Palin to use the Governor’s office and the resources of the Governor’s office, including access to state employees, to continue to contact subordinate state employees in an effort to find some way to get Trooper Wooten fired. Her conduct violated AS 39.52.110(a) of the Ethics Act…

“Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda.”
Even though she continues to be untruthful about what the report really said. She says:

“Well, I’m very very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing,” Palin said, “any hint of any kind of unethical activity there. Very pleased to be cleared of any of that.”
Not true.
So my question to you is, do you think that she passed the ethics test on this issue? And do you think she has been truthful about what the report actually said?

Well, the post is satire (I confess I didn’t get it till “NYT columnist Kall Prugman” hahaha) but at least two liberals upthread seriously asked for an example of a death threat toward Palin or McCain.

And if several of the examples from the Michelle Malkin post which Patterico links don’t constitute incitement to violence I don’t know what does. Except that several of them are being made by famous and influential liberals, not by anonymous crazies at rallies. And mass marketed bumper stickers saying “Abort Palin,” etc.

It’s Democrat plants at the Republican rallies that are spouting the hatred. Everybody knows that the Democrats have a lock on cheating (ACORN) and corruption (Freddie/Fannie) so let’s just get used to Venezuala North when Barry oozes into office.

Palin shouldn’t be trying to get rid of troopers who drink on the job in their cruiser and use their tasers on their own kids! She should be using them to procure studly young supporters for sex, like a good Democrat Gov does.

I mean, anything else is just unethical. By that report’s standards, If the economy of Alaska was in a complete meltdown and Palin could stop it by taking some official action, it would be unethical, because preventing the meltdown would benefit her personally as well.

#142If they could convict her they would have – expressing an opinion she violated an ethics law is like expressing an opinion that pink is the new orange

Comment by EricPWJohnson — 10/13/2008 @ 1:59 am
Is that your opinion? How are your eyes doing with colours? Do you see what it is or do you see what your eyes tell you? How can you trust your eyes to tell you the truth about what you think you see?

“Under the old common law rule, to use res ipsa loquitur in the context of negligence the plaintiff must prove that:

The harm would not ordinarily have occurred without someone’s negligence
The “thing” which caused the harm was under the exclusive control of the defendant at the time of the likely negligent act
There must be an absence of a reasonable explanation as to how the harm occurred…”

In other words, as you thought…its does apply perfectly to Obama backers with Palin Derangement Syndrome. PAX

There’s another story up that idiot John is ‘restarting’ his campaign. He’s done that before. He isn’t bright enough to realize the only time his campaign did well is when he rolled out Palin and seemed to play to his conservative base. Then it was back to Dem-lite for him and he dropped in the polls. Not too bright I would say.

The bottom line is that hecklers and hate-mongerers, regardless of which party they support, are low-IQ mouth-breathers . The lack of respect shown in this country to those with differing viewpoints has hit an all-time high. Those that sit silently by and do nothing to dissuade the idiots are just as guilty.

The financial crisis is the direct result of Democrat social engineering.

Subprime affirmative action mortgages were given to people who could not afford them because Democrats used the power of government to force lenders to make the loans in the name of “fairness”.

Bush has kept us safe since Clinton’s 9/11, his tax rate reductions got us out of Clinton’s internet bubble and the economic hit caused by 9/11, the rich now pay a larger portion of taxes than before, and the economic growth spurred by the tax rate reductions resulted in record tax revenues for the government.

The gas price fiasco and subprime mess have all hit since the Democrats took over Congress in 2006.

It was government meddling that distorted the housing markets and Obama wants to meddle even more.

Why would anyone with a brain vote for Obama whose socialist ideas are proven to fail?

Those on the left have advocated murder as an essential part of their ideology. National Socialist Germany murdered cripples, those with war wounds, those with polio, as well as politial opponents, Jews, and like Ernst Rohm, those who were political allies but who got in the way.

Soviet Socialism murdered bougeois, kulaks, as well as former allies like Trotsky.

When the overriding goal is theft, the left justifies enslavement, torture, and murder as mere means to the end. But the generation raised under the left’s government responds with perversion.

Wow. It’s getting ugly out there. And in here. And on every other political website/board. Maybe the best thing that could happen for this country is to just get this election behind us, HOWEVER it turns out.

“What makes you think that’s possible? The left hasn’t even gotten over 2000…”

Well, parts of the south never got over the Civil War, either, but it hasn’t done them much good. The Left would have been better served if they had reacted to 2000 like humans. *I* would probably still be a little leftish if 2000 had been handled better (and if 9/11 hadn’t happened).

If Obama wins, I certainly hope the Right acts like something other than the cage full of chimpanzees that the modern Left has become, or they’ll follow the same route to irrelevance…though I’m not so worried about that because they seem to have a better track record there.

I guess I’ve just been shaken a bit by the vehemence on both sides this cycle. It’s not unprecedented, but it is unusual and we have an economic crisis that neither party seems to be taking very seriously. The potential consequences make Islamic extremists, Iran, and North Korea look like pikers.

How can Obama keep promising all these new, expensive programs? How could Bush have expanded Medicare with the prescription drug benefit? How can McCain keep talking about cutting taxes without gutting the entire domestic spending system and a good part of the military?

Why do people talk so much about “reducing the deficit” rather than “bringing back the surpluses we had before the 80s”? Are they interested in making the ship sink more slowly, or in making it more seaworthy again?

Economics played a major role in bringing down nearly every single civilization that ever went down (I’ll exclude those who were blown up by volcanoes (Minoans), disrupted by climate change (some Asian and Central/South American nations) and so forth). So, in most cases, did blind adherence to purist ideology, be it right, left, or otherwise.

NYTimes has retracted their report on the booing. What is disturbing is the attempt on the left to bully into SUBMISSION (where have we heard that word before?)the right. There is no attempt at dialogue and the rhetoric from the left is gutter level (I would not insult a second grader’s intellect with comparing the left to the second grader). It should be an interesting 4 years under the rule (and Obama uses that word, not govern)of the left.

Philly sports fans are known as some of the most disrespectful in the country. Philly fans have pelted Santa Claus with snowballs. They did no such thing with Gov. Palin. Therefore Philly likes Palin more than Santa, and that is good enough for me.

As a native Philadelphian who has attended more than my share of pro sporting events, the booing of Palin was to be expected for a number of reasons.
a) Philadelphians can be in general a pretty slovenly, boorish lot, and when we get in sporting events that grows exponentially.
b) Most Philadelphians are lock-step, blinders-on, slaves to the Democratic party, despite the fact that that party and its inept, corrupt leadership at the local level has driven the city into the ground.
c) Nothing that any Philadelphia fan conjures up in the realm of public displays of loutish behavior can ever compare to the bottom-of-the-barrel, knuckle-dragging, barely human, mouth-breathing, feral idiocy of your average fan of the New York Mets.

jharp says “Governor Palin using her 7 year as a shield was a cowardly act. And aren’t we supposed to leave the children out of it, anyways?”

Yeah, that’s exactly what every politician person disliked by the left should do: isolate themselves from their family, especially young children. As though they shouldn’t be allowed to do the same things many other families do. Nope, they should just turn into shut-ins so that the uncultured swine of the left can’t shout rude, proof of base thoughtlessness at them. Get a life, Jharp.

…Bringing kids into this… what utter BS. You should be so lucky that conservatives as a group seem to have more standards and manners, and sense of decency to show the same respect to their political rivals as they would their friends.

JD – a local independent filmmaker a few years back made a low budget film called “Superphan,” about the fictional character Mike DeLuca, the most obsessed Eagles fan in Philly. It’s still the most spot-on depiction of Philly sports fans and hysterically funny if you get the jokes. The other perfect slice of Philly is AMC’s Parking Wars.
Obama just had a big rally in Philly where thousands of fawning fans showed up. I really don’t understand the logic behind spending the money and resources on appearances in a town where an inanimate carbon rod with a “D” after its name would still get 95% of the vote. This is a town that reelected insufferably inept Wilson Goode who dropped a military style bomb on a residential neighborhood, and the hideously racist and corrupt John Street to second terms as mayors. Street used Axelrod as his campaign manager who turned Street’s FBI-led corruption investigation into a “racist Republican plot” against him and he won a second term handily.

166. Haha oh come on Drew! You’re not saying I revealed any kind of bias in my statement of love and affection for Mets fan now, are you? See that’s us. We’re up 2-1 in the NLCS but its more important to dump on the Mets than revel in our good fortune!

“Governor Palin using her 7 year as a shield was a cowardly act. And aren’t we supposed to leave the children out of it, anyways?”

I don’t know, maybe she just wanted to take her 7 year old to a hockey game?

“A a tip of my hat to the Philadelphia fans for the boos.”

I recall when Michael Irving was booed off the field by Philadelphia fans after recieving a career ending injury. I don’t think patriotism has much to do with it; it’s just people from the ‘city of brotherly love’ being their usually classy selves.

THIS IS SUCH A FREAKEN BIAS ARTICLE, WE KNOW WHO THIS AUTHOR IS ROOTING FOR!! OBAMA HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR AT HIS RALLIES, WHICH IS DO NOT HATE BUT COME AND WORK TOGETHER. THIS ARTICLE MUST BE FROM THE MCCAIN/PALIN TEAM.

All the sins of the GOP over the last 8 to 12 years and all the sins of the pathetic Bush administration and all the sins of the ridiculous McCAin/Palin ticket and their woefully angry audiences…you would dare to place all these ills at the foot of the DEMS and Obama. Beyond laughable and really just sad. I’ll say this again, in case you forgot it the first 30 times I said it. People are sick of these tactics, they do not buy into them anymore, yet you guys thinks it’ll work.

IT’s ABOUT THE ECONOMY. Until McCain addresses that and begins to put some real distance between himself and Bush and the whole Republican infrastraucture, He will continue to hemorrhage poll numbers. See, only problem is he doesn’t have the vision or the intelligence or the credibility OR the dedication to real economic reform that he needs to do that.

He’s just all hat and no catttle folks. He just wants to get in for the sake of power and ambition alone, like his prize for being a good company man, like Bush, and he can be a figurehead (much like Bush) and the GOP can try and rewrite history and blame it all on the Democrats.

I think on a deeper level, people understand that we need someone who goes into the office of President with a full head of steam and to begin the real work that needs to get done, not someone who gets there and thinks the race is over and they can cruise and go golfing or whatever the hell it is McCain does for fun. And let the “experts” deal with it. That’s just not going to work this time, because if we don’t have a real president who understands what’s going on and can lead, the suffering in this country is going to be very real and very widespread. But what do you guys care, you’d vote for any ole incompetent clown as long as he had an R after his name. And really shame on you, this can’t be politics as usual here, yet you guys don’t give a flying fu*k about anything except your damned egos.

All caps – check
Double exclamation points – check
Phonetic spelling right outta the gate – check. (Um, oops. )
So. I wonder how the politics of the poster will lean? And what’s the likelihood of a well-thought-out point? Hmm….

Interesting how almost everyone who’s a non-GOPer on this site eventually winds up in moderation, even though they’re the ones usually who’re hounded and abused and harrassed until they lose patience and take off the gloves and fight back against the same ole 5 people who pull that schtick and they know very well who they are and so does PAtrick Frey, DRJ and WLS and the other moderators, yet nary a peep against them. EVER.

Suspicious that. If I was prosecutor I think I could call it a syndicate or a conspiracy and use the RICO act to bring charges.

THIS IS SUCH A FREAKEN BIAS ARTICLE, WE KNOW WHO THIS AUTHOR IS ROOTING FOR!! OBAMA HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR AT HIS RALLIES, WHICH IS DO NOT HATE BUT COME AND WORK TOGETHER. THIS ARTICLE MUST BE FROM THE MCCAIN/PALIN TEAM.

Comment by ROSIE — 10/13/2008 @ 10:08 am

We are all better people for having read this. If you will just submit your will to your liberal betters, all will be forgiven.

Bobbo — 10/13/2008 @ 5:28 am, #148
“Under the old common law rule, to use res ipsa loquitur in the context of negligence the plaintiff must prove that:
The harm would not ordinarily have occurred without someone’s negligence
The “thing” which caused the harm was under the exclusive control of the defendant at the time of the likely negligent act
There must be an absence of a reasonable explanation as to how the harm occurred…”

In other words, as you thought…its does apply perfectly to Obama backers with Palin Derangement Syndrome.

I love the mock outrage over the “anger” displayed by GOP supporters. Has anyone gotten a look at the style and design of your average anti-Bush protester’s sign over the past eight years? The anti-Bush aesthetic has been so juvenile and gutter level as to be an embarrassment to those who takes themselves seriously indulging in it. But I guess those were heroic efforts at “speaking truth to power” by those appalled by the “sins” of W.

“Ah. I’m getting sick of the BS on this site.”
Then the simple cure for your affliction is to get lost. All you ever do when you post here is reveal what a sanctimonious asshole you are.

Calling Bush Hitler, an international terrorist, a war criminal, an ignoramus, guilty of “genocide”, comparing him to simians, burning him in effigy, indulging in assassination fantasies about him in off off Broadway theater, parading around signs of him with his head decapitated = “speaking truth to power.”

Pat, glad you’re back. I was posting a response to you regarding my comments to love2008 when Rush mentioned the site on the air. CRASH!

Since I years ago got hooked into dedicating a sizeable chunk of my free time to writing on forums, blogs and bulletin boards, I have endeavored to always back up what I write, and demand no less of others. My early activity in this thread is testimony to that.

It’s infuriating to watch the supposed guardians of truth in the media rush to correct negative information about Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and the Democrat Party (regardless of whether or not the information is accurate) and allow bald-faced lies about Gov. Palin, John McCain, and the GOP to take a couple of laps around the world before they half-heartedly suggest they might not be 100% true — maybe “99.44% pure,” but not 100%. When I saw love engaging in spreading another untruth, i.e., suggesting that Gov. Palin said in a speech that “Obama and his evil network of ‘terrorists’ are the bad guys,” I fired with both barrels.

Am I angry? You bet giraffes. I’ve been a news junkie since my single digits and only one time in my life have I seen such a coordinated effort to steer the public toward one point of view for the benefit of one individual: The MSM’s case for Dr. Elizabeth Morgan and against Dr. Eric Foretich was worse, but the stakes weren’t nearly as high. That vicious child custody case pales before not only who will win the White House, but whether or not one party will seize control of all three branches of government and fundamentally change the way the nation operates and defends itself for decades to come (not to mention what may happen to our freedom of speech).

So, am I going to back down when someone distorts easily obtainable facts? Absolutely not. Will I follow your code of behavior? Of course I will. Your house, your rules, and it’s a mansion I don’t want to leave.

Sorry, but there’s no equivalence here. It’s a far cry from screaming out that (the pathologically untruthful) Sarah Palin is a liar and screaming out that Obama is a terrorist or suggesting that he or Ayers should be killed.

This is not a place for equivalence and objectivity. It is a partisan blog dedicated to defend and promote a particular party’s interest. Whether right or wrong. It is a place where red can be proven to be actually black and green is white. It is only here that you will see folks making the case that shouting “kill him” in a rally is the same as calling a liar a “liar”. This is where you get to meet the dwindling minority of Bush’s supporters. Those who steadfastly support him, even down into the ditch! They are irrational party loyalists who see the whole world as red. (“R” for Red).
So welcome to this blog. You will learn to like it.

This is a list compiled in roughly 5 minutes. I’m sure one can find worse perusing DailyKos or the even deeper depths of the DU. For you to even imply for one second that some random person at a rally is morally equivalent to any of this shows you as, not only disingenuous, but dishonest.

This is where you get to meet the dwindling minority of Bush’s supporters. Those who steadfastly support him, even down into the ditch! They are irrational party loyalists who see the whole world as red. (”R” for Red).
So welcome to this blog. You will learn to like it.

Comment by love2008 — 10/14/2008 @ 5:32 am

Bush? He’s not running. I’m pretty sure most people here are very critical of him.

The Huffington Post carried an article later that said, way down in the article, that Dana Milbank had given an interview to Politico in which he said he thought that Ayers was who the shout was about. Will dig up the link if you don’t believe me.

Well, my dear love2008, from my vantage point anyway, he doesn’t appear to be confused about at least one thing – your hesitation to address uncomfortable subjects head on. For example, I’d love to have your thoughts on the several incitements by liberals listed above (some very public, or by famous people like Madonna), and the other calls for violence against Sarah Palin.

noyk – The media ran an entire week with the angry, unhinged, dangerous, inciting riots meme against McCain. I have not seen any of the incidents the Dems have done even reported on, much less given the headline attention that the lies about McCain got.

This is the worst I have ever seen the media act in an election. Several entire networks should have to report in-kind donations to the Baracky campaign.

You people keep denying the fact that the recent outburst in your camp came as a result of negative, personality-attacking, comments by Palin and McCain. The crowd simply responded accordingly. Now you are trying to draw comparisons with Democrats on this. Why cant you people take responsibility for yourselves for once and stop the blame game. Sarah Palin went on the attack. It backfired on the Reps. Now they are trying to spin it. Truth is perishing!

Why cant you people take responsibility for yourselves for once and stop the blame game. Sarah Palin went on the attack. It backfired on the Reps.

I’m sorry, just want to be clear: are you saying that Sarah Palin brought these death threats (“let’s stone her, old school”) and other incitements (MILP, MILK, Abort Sarah Palin, etc etc etc ) on herself?

The big diference, noyk, is that the Palin threat did not come as a result of Obama or Biden’s rhetoric in a rally. Your candidates have done nothing but attack Obama, so as to shift focus from the economy. They said so themselves. Sarah Palin also said something about the gloves being off and the high heels on. Referring to the fact that she was going to go on the attack. Obama has not said anything, in any rally that could incite people to say death-threatening things like “Kill him”, “off with his head.” “Terrorist”. And you know that if that happened, he would immediately condemn it. Palin did not. McCain did not immediately. That is the big difference here.

Sorry to sound so blunt, but your own (liberal – “Democracy Now” is a liberal org’n I think) link at the other thread says it’s unclear whether Palin even heard the ONE shout. Your OWN LINK at the Huffington Post about the “Kill Him” shout said the Secret Service didn’t even hear it and Palin gave no indication of having heard it either. I gave you a link this weekend that showed McCain didn’t register what was said at ONE rally of his.

As Victor David Hanson said [paraphrase] one shout in a crowd of tens of thousands is proof of bad will on the part of McCain/Palin, according to liberals.

Yet conservatives bring up lots of instances of incitement or threats by liberals, and either silence from so many liberals, or (what seems to be above, for just one example) a “chickens coming home to roost” blaming-the-victim .

Pointing out that Obama has long professional noncasual associations with unrepentant terrorists (Ayers and Dohrn) is the simple truth. It speaks to his judgment, character and possible political (i.e. far-left) leanings.

We have no problem condemning the isolated “kill him!” Conservative crowds don’t support it. They applaud John McCain when he says Obama is a decent family man.

Why no unequivocal condemnation of the death threats and incitement coming from the left side of the aisle?

What it is about liberal rage against Palin is that they her for the excitemen she brings for the ticket from the base. Plus she actually has more experience than the dem prez nominee. Dhimmies are fine with free speech and a woman’s right to choose as long as that speech agrees with libtards and the woman opts to abort, especially someone like Down’s syndrome cherub.

Gotta the love the lib truth squad residing here…totally fracking clueless and prevaricating/obfuscating the issues or just ignoring them totally. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their crotches.

For god’s sake. The GOP is just cherrypicking from Obama’s actual resume.

Your candidates have done nothing but attack Obama, so as to shift focus from the economy.

The real problem is that Obama has shown the opposite of good judgement. He should condemn Madonna’s actions, if only in a political sense. John McCain has done so on numerous occasions and since the primaries.

Obama’s fear and reaction to the charisma of a newcomer, a VP contender was like a visit to senior year and seeing some kid get his crown stolen. Guess he’s really ready for the big leagues. Not.

#223
Isn’t it time you drop that old, out-dated line? We have moved beyond that and Obama’s lead is widening. Palin’s positives are dropping and her negatives on the increase. Her qualification is not something you want to go into, judging from her recent performance and disappointing level of knowledge. Catch up.

BS polls don’t mean diddly squat…skewed to excessive intake from dems. All that counts is the actual election and not polls, including exit polls. And total votes garnered don’t mean much if you don’t have the electoral college margin.

Qualifications? What exactly are obambi’s? YOu never pointnthem out. Running a campaign? lying? consorting with felons,racists and terrorist radicals? Voting present in Ill. Senate? About 150 days actually in US Senate? We don’t need no affirmative action potus, chump.

Why cant you people take responsibility for yourselves for once and stop the blame game. Sarah Palin went on the attack. It backfired on the Reps.

Again, just want to be clear: are you saying that Sarah Palin brought these death threats (”let’s stone her, old school”) and other incitements (MILP, MILK, Abort Sarah Palin, etc etc etc ) on herself?

Philadelphia sports fans behaving poorly? That’s the equivalent of a “Dog Bites Man” story. Pull up to the entrance of any Philadelphia sports arena just before game time and try to find an inch of real estate that is not covered with a beer, wine or whiskey bottle, every trash can filled to overflowing with discarded empties. They’ve even set up on-site Police stations to handle the post-buzz crowd. The fact that there’s a little controversy whether she was really booed, apparently by not many, or with much enthusiasm, I considered a real positive.
If I had heard she had been nailed by a snowball-covered “D” battery I would hardly have been surprised. Psst – RNC, here’s some advice – Philadelphia and Pittsburgh will not be voting for McCain/Palin. Come out to the ‘burbs and meet a much more receptive crowd.
How about visiting the third largest city in the state? That would be a Penn State football game crowd.

noyk – You know it will not answer directly. The closest it will come to answering that is to attempt to shift the focus of the question onto someone or something else.

Comment by JD — 10/14/2008 @ 9:38 am

Hopefully repeated pointings out of the unfortunate past actions of said poster, added to my mule-stubborn refusal to let questions like these fade into the ozone, will make things different, at least this time.

Read the whole comment well and you will get my point. The issue I was talking about was that the difference between the threat on Palin and that on Obama is that the threat against Palin did not come as a direct result of Obama’s rhetoric. While in the case of people shouting death threats about obama (or whoever) were in reaction to Palin and McCain’s negative attacks on Obama’s person. Obama did not directly incite people to say those things in a rally. I am sure I was clear enough in my comment. That is if you read it as it is. Without trying to score political points out of them. Noyk, your mask is falling off.

So, if I understand you correctly, Obama is not responsible for the liberal death threat(s) and the incitements to violence. OK, that sounds reasonable.

So, you’re saying that Palin and/or McCain is responsible for one shout of “kill him” [Ayers}, do I understand you correctly?

And who was responsible for the tens of thousands who did not shout that? The tens of thousands who did not support that crazed shout?

Who is responsible for the applause at the rally where McCain called Obama a decent family man?

Noyk, your mask is falling off.

I’m sorry, I don’t understand. What “mask” are you referring to? That is, what is the “mask,” and what is under the “mask?” If you’re going to make insinuations that I am not who I appear to be, then I suggest you make yourself specific. Thanks.

The issue I was talking about was that the difference between the threat on Palin and that on Obama is that the threat against Palin did not come as a direct result of Obama’s rhetoric.

Then, apparent even uncomfortable with its own lies, it equivocates a bit by saying

While in the case of people shouting death threats about obama (or whoever) were in reaction to Palin and McCain’s negative attacks on Obama’s person. Obama did not directly incite people to say those things in a rally

This, in spite of all available evidence clearly being contradictory to lovie’s statements. Therefore, it is either stupid, a liar, or both. Which is it, lovie?

Comment by no one you know — 10/14/2008 @ 10:27 am
The mask of a neutral, level-headed commenter who is willing to see things from both sides. That is the mask that looks like it’s falling off. Or maybe I did not quite understand you. I see some of the comments you make to JD about straightening me out and disproving my points. It seems like you are the new blog police. Like Palin you appear mild and soft and reasonable but in deed you are something else. (That is meant to be a compliment. Seeing you support Palin).
You are a milder form of JD, SPQR, AD, LN, VN etc. You are just another partisan commenter. Only difference is that you do it with a smile and a wink.

Call the morgue!
Another one of our comment assassins has fallen.
noyk, we told you that the increased mobility you sought by not wearing the body armor would be dangerous.
Now, it is too late.
Another valiant warrior fallen to the evil hordes.
Farewell, Sweet Prince!

Secret Service hs stated there re no credible death threats against Obama
Did they also say there was no such comment like “Kill him!”? The fact is that something was said in that rally that incited someone to say those words. And that does not look good for McCain.

Well, I would hope all the commenters here would do their best to stay level-headed; I try too. As for “neutral” or not “partisan,” I’m sorry I gave you the impression that I was not thoroughly committed to conservatism, because I am.

“Not neutral” doesn’t mean “not honest” though.

Am a conservative because I’ve thought the issues through, and I think conservative principles are true. If someone from my political party does or says things I think are wrong, honesty demands that I oppose their position. And if someone from the other political party does it, am going to say things about that too. (Like everyone else, I don’t have time to post here every day obviously, but when I do I comment on things.)

Am hardly the blog police. (That made me smile.)

I truly think you’re saying that because I’ve pursued a few comments you’ve made over this last weekend that were very inaccurate or misleading, and I didn’t want to let the (from what you said, unintentionally) misleading nature of them slide – for the sake of other commenters who read things we (both liberal and conservative) write here.

So you perceived that I was just giving you a hard time or something.

(Again, sorry if this sounds too blunt but if you’d have answered questions right away instead of (my and I guess others’ perceptions too) diverting and avoiding questions, I wouldn’t have appeared to be so overpersistent or appeared to have been giving you such a hard time BTW.)

Am very glad to discuss things with you in a reasonable way. And I hope my respect for you as a person has been demonstrated in my treatment of you ever since you got here.

But that doesn’t mean I won’t call you on it when you make a statement that is clearly factually disprovable. And I sincerely hope you do the same for me. The truth is what matters. And if something isn’t true I don’t want to believe it, and I don’t want others or myself misled – even unintentionally – into believing it.

Well, I would hope all the commenters here would do their best to stay level-headed; I try too. As for “neutral” or not “partisan,” am sorry you got the impression that I was not thoroughly committed to conservatism, because I am.

“Not neutral” doesn’t mean “not honest” though.

Am a conservative because I’ve thought the issues through, and I think conservative principles are true. If someone from my political party does or says things I think are wrong, honesty demands that I oppose their position. And if someone from the other political party does it, am going to say things about that too. (Like everyone else, I don’t have time to post here every day obviously, but when I do I comment on things.)

Am hardly the blog police. (That made me smile.)

I truly think you’re saying that because I’ve pursued a few comments you’ve made over this last weekend that were very inaccurate or misleading, and I didn’t want to let the (from what you said, unintentionally) misleading nature of them slide – for the sake of other commenters who read things we (both liberal and conservative) write here.

So you perceived that I was just giving you a hard time or something.

(Again, sorry if this sounds too blunt but if you’d have answered questions right away instead of (my and I guess others’ perceptions too) diverting and avoiding questions, I wouldn’t have appeared to be so overpersistent or appeared to have been giving you such a hard time BTW.)

Am very glad to discuss things with you in a reasonable way. And I hope my respect for you as a person has been demonstrated in my treatment of you ever since you got here.

But that doesn’t mean I won’t call you on it when you make a statement that is clearly factually disprovable. And I sincerely hope you do the same for me. The truth is what matters. And if something isn’t true I don’t want to believe it, and I don’t want others or myself misled – even unintentionally – into believing it.

I see love as the election equivalent of “Tokyo Rose” and have argued for the description elsewhere. The one consistent thing about her is that she says things aimed at discouraging conservatives. On another thread she finally acknowledged Ayers is not the boy scout you want your son to play with, then taunted with the prediction of a landslide for Obama because “it’s the economy, stupid”. When asked whether she meant the economic disaster triggered by the collapse of freddie and fanny that occurred with pressure from Obama and ACORN from below, and Dodd and Obama from above (getting all that $$$ from F+F lobbyists), that even Bill Clinton attested to, she declined comment.

I am sure I was clear enough in my comment. That is if you read it as it is. Without trying to score political points out of them.

Of course, you’re the expert on “read[ing things] as [they are],” lovey. I will give you an excellent example of your scholarly reading comprehension.

Here’s Governor Palin from an Ohio appearance Sunday, as quoted by “CNN political producer Peter Hamby” in this report:

“Help me, Ohio, to help put John McCain in the White House. He understands. He understands you. We understand how important it is that this team be elected. For one thing, we know who the bad guys are, OK?” … “We know that in the war, it’s terrorists, terrorists who hate America and her allies and would seek to destroy us, and the bad guys are those who would support and sympathize with the terrorists. They do not like America because of what we stand for. Liberty. Freedom. Equal rights. Those who sympathize and support those terrorists who would seek to destroy all that it is that we value, those are the bad guys, OK?”

“We know who the good guys are, and it is you, and we will fight for you, and we will put government on your side. We will end the arrogant and the selfish practices of Washington and of Wall Street because your United States government is to be of the people, by the people, for the people.”

Producer Hamby also quoted Palin as referring to
“‘greedy and corrupt and arrogant’ mavens of Wall Street and Washington who, she said, have pushed the nation’s economy to the brink.”

More revelations from Sarah Palin about who the “bad guys” are and who the “good guys” are. Obama and his evil network of “terrorists” are the bad guys. So lets vote for John McCain to stop the bad guys from taking over.

Comment by love2008 — 10/12/2008 @ 7:14 pm

Some 600 Obamabots and counting agree, commenting literally hundreds of insults, some vague, some juvenile, some further disproven rumors, some confusing the real life Palin with the Tina Fey parody. One person posting as “john fitzgerald kennedy” wrote: “i hope you die sarah palin”.

All of them are acting as if Palin had said something hateful about Obama at that rally or referred to him as a “terrorist” or a “bad guy.” She did NOT. She was clear enough in her comment. That is, if you read it as it is. Without trying to score political points out of it.

Comment by L.N. Smithee — 10/14/2008 @ 12:24 pm
LN. Sarah could have helped herself further by saying that Obama was also one of the good guys. Instead she sounded like voting John McCain, the good guy was how to stop the bad guys, “the terrorist and all those who sympathize with them..” Remember this is the same woman who accused Obama of “palling around with terrorists”. Mark the plural “terrorists” not “terrorist”. So it is easy to come away with the impression that she was making another veiled swipe on Obama.
When she says “For one thing, we know who the bad guys are, OK?”, is she saying Barack Obama does not know who the “bad guys” are? Mind you, she has not taken back the “Palling around with terrorists” charge.

AD/MD in Philly/VN/L.N.Smithee- thanks for trying to keep MMVIII honest. It can’t handle the truth even if the truth is out there. Tokyo Rose is good too, but the actual TR was a composite of about a dozen Japanese lady propagandists. Iva Toguri’s looks kind of cute in her mug shot. Maybe the trolls on the site could be the generic TRs? Axis Sally was a native of Portland, Maine and lived from 1900-1988 (Mildred Gillars). Not that great looking but nice gams.

If the media were at all neutral and did its job of vetting ALL the candidates, the punk barry would be stammering and obfuscating more than he already does. Funny that fawning media traveling with Stinky complains about BO’s plane’s BO. And McCain’s is clean…like their respective characters.

I like the comparison pix of Palin on a Hog and Urkel on a bike with a helmet.

“Mind you, she has not taken back the “Palling around with terrorists” charge.”

Lovie – There is absolutely no reason for Palin to retract that statement. Aren’t you familiar with the toast Obama gave at PLO member Rashid Khalidi’s going away party from Chicago where he spoke fondly of all the conversations he shared over the Khalidi’s kitchen table?

More than one calls for a plural. Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Rashid Khalidi. Am I going too fast?

Comment by daleyrocks — 10/14/2008 @ 1:55 pm
It is disingenuous and misleading to say Obama is palling around with terrorists. Obama was 8 years old when these radicals did what they did. Ayers is presently teaching and has not engaged in any “terrorist” acts since then. His meeting with Obama had nothing to do with terrorism. To continue to defend that lie makes anyone doing so a liar.

I’m afraid I’m considering an intervention, for your sake, my sake, and the sake of others.

I think we need to start a “Troll Responders Anonymous” Group. I’m sure we have better things to do than joust with windmills. Of course, the name lacks a nice ring, suggestions welcomed (not by you, love=TR)

It is disingenuous and misleading to say Obama is palling around with terrorists.

Is it your assertion that Ayers and Dohrn aren’t terrorists, or is it your assertion that Obama isn’t “palling” around with them?

Obama was 8 years old when these radicals did what they did.

Nobody here has said Obama is responsible for what Ayers did. What they’re saying is that Obama has willingly associated with an unrepentant terrorist. We are known by the company we keep, are we not?

Bush took a mountain of heat for giving one speech at Bob Jones University, and it’s not as if Bob Jones has been blowing up buildings for his cause.

Ayers is presently teaching and has not engaged in any “terrorist” acts since then.

He’s said that he’s not sorry for what he did and wished he had done more. Let’s draw an analogy: if McCain had launched his political career from the home of someone who had been a member of the KKK 30 years earlier, and still respected that klan memeber, would you be exhorting everyone to give him a pass on that association? Didn’t think so.

His meeting with Obama had nothing to do with terrorism.

Again, this is a straw man. No one has said that Obama was plotting terrorist acts with Ayers. What has been said is that Ayers is an America-hating, unrepentant terrorist that Obama associates with. Do you think Presidents should be associating with the likes of Ayers?

To continue to defend that lie makes anyone doing so a liar.

To continue to misrepresent your opposition’s positions makes you the Chief Crapola Dispenser of Patterico’s Pontifications.

For what it’s worth, Hayes’ headline at the Standard says “the angry left,” so he at least has some basis for what he’s saying.

This post references Hayes’ description of one Obama rally where there was some booing. The rest of the instances did not take place at rallies. If the idea is that Obama rallies are some sort of McCain bashing hootenanny, that’s not supported here.

Also, characterizing Flyers fans who booed Palin as “Obama supporters” is a little presumptuous. I agree booing Palin with her daughter there is rude, but this is a Philadelphia sports event. Boos are part of the currency there. I find it annoying, but it’s not a big deal.

FWIW, I’m not a friend of the angry left by any stretch. I’m more libertarian than anything, and I am supporting Obama this time around. I voted for Bush in 2004, but Republicans haven’t shown themselves able to deliver on small government or cutting spending. And the Democrats didn’t choose Sarah Palin as a running mate. I find her (not 2 year Alaskan governors in general) unqualified and lacking in anything I want from a President.

If you want to talk about past associations, I think we should take a moment to wonder why George W. Bush was doing business with Salem Bin Laden in the 70’s, and why George H. W. Bush was on the board of Carlyle Group with Osama’s father until 9/11 – clearly after Osama was on the most wanted list for a decade. Sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty to do business, and yes John McCain has some shady business too. How much mileage do you think this Ayers things is worth? I feel like the Republican party wants us to buy a rusty 1988 ford taurus, for it’s original sticker price. I wish we could keep the discourse to some skillfull pie throwing and spare everyone the shit spray.

Remember that movie, “50 first dates” or something where the girl had some memory disorder where she couldn’t remember yesterday? So the guy courting her had 50 first dates as far as she was concerned? Maybe that’s TR’s situation. I actually had a patient like that once. Woke up one morning and didn’t remember where his car was (without the benefit of intoxication). He had a hard time remembering anything for longer than 5 minutes until we started treating the encephalitis. (That Valtrex you see on TV is good stuff).

So. let me remind you of the bottom line. mark this as a favorite so you can come to it often:

On another thread she finally acknowledged Ayers is not the boy scout you want your son to play with, then taunted with the prediction of a landslide for Obama because “it’s the economy, stupid”. When asked whether she meant the economic disaster triggered by the collapse of freddie and fanny that occurred with pressure from Obama and ACORN from below, and Dodd and Obama from above (getting all that $$$ from F+F lobbyists), that even Bill Clinton attested to, she declined comment.Comment by MD in Philly — 10/14/2008 @ 11:54 am

What I do know is that BillClinton was the last president to even propose a balanced budget for more than one year. Before him was LBJ. W did it once, in his first year. Since then, he’s acted like he owns (that is, we own) a money tree. I hope to see more Republicans in Congress in a couple years to counter Obama. In the meantime, if Obama and the Democratic Congress want to reverse some of the more intrusive Republican policies, I’ll be okay with that too.

I’ve given the Republicans many chances to deliver. The Republican governor here in Indiana, Mitch Daniels, does a decent job. So I’ll be voting for him. Nationally though, I’m ready to try something different.

Comment by Steverino — 10/14/2008 @ 7:29 pm
Answering my question with a link will help to answer yours. Is Ayers still a terrorist? Did he actually say he wished he could bomb more? When? Links will help us. This will drive home your point that Obama palls around with terrorists. But you must prove that Bill Ayers is still a terrorist.

love2008, Mike K’s paraphrase is accurate. On Sept 11, 2001, the NYT published an article quoting Bill Ayers answer to the question whether he would do it again. From the article: “So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said. ”

It is the same article where Ayers was quoted as saying: “”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.” ”

This article has been linked to time and time again, and you continually ignore it.

Now it is long past time you quit calling others “liar” when you have such a poor command of facts yourself. Your incompetence and your repetitive desire to show your incompetence got old a long time ago.

but Republicans haven’t shown themselves able to deliver on small government or cutting spending.

So the Republicans did not deliver to your expectations, so in response, you are going to go to the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, and vote for someone who will increase the size of government as far as Congress will allow, and whose spending increases, to date, total up to $1,000,000,000,000? Right.

Comment by SPQR — 10/14/2008 @ 7:51 pm
Bill Ayers.
“So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.

”I don’t think you can understand a single thing we did without understanding the violence of the Vietnam War,” he said, and the fact that ”the enduring scar of racism was fully in flower”
This does not say anything about him wanting to bomb again. He was talking about the whole resistance to the Vietnam war, which frankly was very very unpopular in those days. I can’t find where he said “I would bomb again.” He does not regret resisting the war. That is not under contention. But your link does not prove that he said he would bomb again. Another lie. Or get an actual link where he said it the way you guys like to throw around.

He is a Marxist, a “communist with a little “c”, an anarchist who believes capitalism and the United States are what is wrong with the world and must be destroyed. The methods of facilitating the revolution are secondary.

I agree with Ayers on at least one thing, that the methods are secondary. Anyone who thinks the US as now constructed and capitalism are the prime causes of evil in the world have nothing in common with the nation that was founded when the Constitution was written. It is the Constitution which all public servants vow to defend and uphold.

Moreover, if he thinks the US has done more evil in the world than Stalin and the Soviet Union, Mao and the Communist Chinese, and Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, his critical thinking is not worthy to be respected. By all means the US has problems, always will as long as human beings are in charge, but it’s asinine to compare US behavior to the fruits of communism in the 20th century.

”I don’t think you can understand a single thing we did without understanding the violence of the Vietnam War,”

It’s one of the reasons why supporters are voting for Obama. Because Bill Ayers could easily finish his bombing schedule (i.e., “wouldn’t discount the possibility”). Conveniently for a war which, in your own words, was very very unpopular.

There is no legal allowance I know of that allows citizens to bomb or kill because they disagree with a situation. (Martin Luther King, peaceful demonstrations…etc.)

Now it’s your turn to provide proof that Ayers’ anti-war sentiments wouldn’t cause him to bomb again, seeing as he himself doesn’t discount the possibility.

This thread needs an informed liberal poster. Ayers’ quote was common knowledge months, if not years, ago.

AD, I would watch that heart. I don’t like kicking on the old and helpless. So I have decided to treat you with respect. No matter your insults. I get it. At your age, it’s hard not to be this way. So, I forgive you and pray for your health. Don’t forget to take your meds. And get ready for bed.

I would watch that heart. I don’t like kicking on the old and helpless. So I have decided to treat you with respect. No matter your insults. I get it. At your age, it’s hard not to be this way. So, I forgive you and pray for your health. Don’t forget to take your meds. And get ready for bed.

Wow, how could so many people miss this satire? No such (Noesutch) university… Kall Prugman (he’s actually Paul Krugman)…?? If you want some more entertainment, check out jimtreacher.com (“Professor” James Treacher of Noesutch University.) It was fun, however, to read all the righteous indignation in the comments of those who took this as straightforward opinion writing.

Comment by Vermont Neighbor — 10/14/2008 @ 8:38 pm
No. You have said he is a terrorist. That he wants to do more bombings. Prove it. In all honesty, would you call the present day Ayers a terrorist? Just the truth. Is Bill Ayers still a terrorist? Has he made any recent threats about bombing anywhere or has he done so? Is he presently engaged in terrorist activities? No lies.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Lorena Bobbitt has not chopped off any nuts recently, that I am aware of, yet she remains a testicle cutter-offer. I do not think OJ has tried to cut anybody’s head off recently, but he is still a murderer. Bill Ayers made bombs that blew up people and property. That he got a job at a university after that does not make him anything other than a terrorist. He just happens to have gotten away with it, and rewarded by the liberal academic elites.

Listen. For someone who believes Obama’s beliefs without question, you need to extend the same courtesy to William Ayers. He speaks for himself. He’s gone on record with a major print publication, and you just can’t change that. Water under the bridge and all.

But if you do choose to reject his words, you are committed to analyzing Barack Obama with the same questioning style. We await your perspective.

Comment by Another Drew — 10/14/2008 @ 8:44 pm
There you go again, polluting the blog. I will keep my pledge to you. I will treat you with respect and deference. So, thank you very much. And I forgive you.

Why are so many making excuses for the vile behavior of these people. The truth to the matter is that Obama supporters have been behaving in this manner from the beginning attacking and attempting to suppress all those who are not in agreement with their Messiah. It is wrong! What they did was wrong! What some of McCain/Palin supporters are doing are equally wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right. The ugliness of a few are tearing this country apart. While everyone blames McCain/Palin, does anyone remember Obama’s speech in Elko, Nevada last month when he told his supporters:
“I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.”
(See my blog of September 24, 2008, Obama: “Argue With Neighbors, Get In Their Face”.)

The media did not even think it was worth covering, and anyone who spoke up about it was immediately ignored or called racist. I say again, two wrongs do not make a right.

At least McCain was decent enough to caution his supporters. Obama has not done the same thing which tells us what to expect if by some fluke he becomes president.

You know what’s funny? These people would have a freakin cow if a GOP candidate was a BUSINESS ASSOCIATE of Timothy McVeigh. If a fund-raiser was held in McVeigh’s living room to launch some puppet into politics… yet, we see the Obots treating Sarah Palin like she’s worse than Tim McVeigh! And Bill Ayers? He’s just a cool old fool. A hippie with a defunct bomb recipe.

You guys are just ripe with contradiction. We’re already onto the ruse that Dems want to rule through numbers, not ‘help’ the masses.

You know what’s funny? These people would have a freakin cow if a GOP candidate was a BUSINESS ASSOCIATE of Timothy McVeigh. If a fund-raiser was held in McVeigh’s living room to launch some puppet into politics…
Comment by Vermont Neighbor — 10/15/2008 @ 12:35 pm

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