Slashdot videos: Now with more Slashdot!

View

Discuss

Share

We've improved Slashdot's video section; now you can view our video interviews, product close-ups and site visits with all the usual Slashdot options to comment, share, etc. No more walled garden! It's a work in progress -- we hope you'll check it out (Learn more about the recent updates).

ygslash writes "The
Hoover Dam
no longer holds the title of the world's widest dam.
Satellite photos of northern Alberta, Canada, show that several families
of beavers have apparently
joined forces
to build a dam 850 meters
wide, more than twice as wide as the Hoover Dam."

It is thought that several beaver families joined forces to create the massive dam, containing thousands of trees, and took many months to complete it.

Point 1. News is not supposed to include only speculation of events to support the main title. Investigate. That's why you're supposed to be better than a blog.

Point 2. Really, FOX? Fox News. On slashdot, about a beaver dam. WTF?

Point 3. It took beavers only a matter of months to do this when we take years and they still break. Why aren't we seeing a story about remote controlled animals with tools working en mass to build projects like this. Now that's a story that should be on Slashdot.

Funny that beaver dams never break. You would think that since they're made out of untreated wood, that the water would rot them at some random point that beavers can't even foresee....

I don't know if you were joking, but beaver dams break all the time. Usually they're not huge breaches but little leaks, and not usually due to wood rotting but due to mud washing out and sticks coming loose. The little guys are constantly repairing and mending the dams. They have OCD and can't stand the sound of running water -- that's their trigger to fix the dam.

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:

Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files show that no permits have been issued.

Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated. The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris dams and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all unauthorized activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the strewn channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 1998. Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure to comply with this request, or any further unauthorized activity on the site, may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action. We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter.

Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

David L. PriceDistrict Representative Land and Water Management Division

Your certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to respond to. You sent out a great deal of carbon copies to a lot of people, but you neglected to include their addresses. You will, therefore, have to send them a copy of my response.

First of all, Mr. Ryan DeVries is not the legal landowner and/or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan -- I am the legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, nor authorize, their dam project, I think they would be highly offended you call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris." I would like to challenge you to attempt to emulate their dam project any dam time and/or any dam place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no dam way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your dam request the beavers first must fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity, my first dam question to you is: are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or do you require all dam beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request? If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, please send me completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits. Perhaps we will

The difference is that beavers don't just build a home, they also make radical changes to their natural environment which puts them in an entirely different class. It's comparable to the way we build dams for flood control (except . . the other way around) or plant crops to grow food. The changes they make expand their habitat rather than simply providing shelter.

Many animals modify their environment, but pretty much only Homo sapiens is capable of modifying the environment in ways that are impossible to achieve through the use of our natural physiology. The Hoover Dam could not have been built by hand. We exceed the animals by the capacity to create tools, and to use those tools to create even more complex tools, and on and on.

There are animals, primates mostly, that have been observed using inanimate objects as tools. That's true tool use, but they do not make imp

Actually animals DO modify their tools too. SOME chimpazees are known to fix the end of their twigs to make them better tools for catching termites. Also, some corvids (don't remember the species) in the wild will shape the twigs to make hooks to get the grups from holes in the branches. When in the lab, the birds would find the steel wire left around and also make hooks, sometimes to achieve tasks more complex than just pulling a grup out of a hole. I don't remember the details, just that it involved tr

Look at the termite mounds [wikipedia.org] (also, just below, tunnels and how they are used), then look at a termite...and tell me now that part of your justification which mentions Hoover Dam is convincing.

They sure are similar to humans from the article. "They create a habitat with lots of water like a moat around their lodges so they can swim and *drive*, and keep one step ahead of predators such as coyotes and bears."

Beavers are cool - but they can also be a nuisance. My brother in law has been paid by landowners to clear beaver from various creeks and streams. All legal, and in accordance with state wildlife regulations, mind you. The fur sells well, and the meat grows strong, healthy dogs. I never asked him why he didn't eat the meat himself. I guess it doesn't taste very good. But, yeah, beavers are cool. They do have an odor that I don't like very much. Not a bad odor, just a musky scent that I don't like.

Of course, I realize that most animals make a home and hence modify their environment. I was trying to suggest that none of them go quite as far as the beaver. They don't just build a home, they build a neighborhood too.

I also like working for the Department of Redundancy Dept like I do. I like liking.... like...

The original article was from Fox News - I'm just amazed they realised it was a damn, and not a giant vacuum cleaner given the quality of their fact checking.

It is, IMO, even more damning than that -- it's a wire feed article that originated with The Sun, England's answer to The New York Post. The closest they get to journalism is printing slightly fewer Bigfoot sightings than The Weekly World News.

Having no actual investigative reporters and blindly publishing things from credible news feeds is one thing (the death-knell of traditional media's role in journalism, for example). Doing the same with a tabloid as your source is even worse.

The common factor is that it's all Murdoch media- Fox, The Sun, The New York Post etc.

Yes, it's scary as fuck that the most succesful news corporation world wide is the one that's most full of shit globally.

Hell, they even look possibly set to be getting their own way and putting David Cameron into power in the UK today, fingers crossed things don't quite go entirely Rupert's way and we get a hung parliament now.

News Corporation papers are unfortunately responsible for more than just getting beaver stories wrong. Honestly, the best thing that could happen to the Western world would be the bankruptcy of Murdoch and the fall of all his papers etc. Him getting hit by a large truck would be nice too, because ultimately his love of spreading bullshit is responsible for more misery and problems globally through the spread of lies, ignorance, and bad government than some of the worlds worst dictators in history. If you look at the influence Fox had on getting Bush elected for example (even if you don't believe Fox's call was what gave him the election, all pre-election slandering of opposition makes a differences) then you can really link him to the fact the US went into Iraq in the first place even though it had nothing to do with 9/11. The actions of his news outlets have real, serious, knock on effects that can set off chains of events that cause tens, possibly hundreds of thousands to die.

Of course, Murdoch isn't unique, others are as bad, he's just the king of evil in this respect. It's quite sad really. What makes it worse is that his offspring are just as bad and are taking over the reigns from him, so it's not as if we'll get rid of him that way either.

Well, given the fact that the Kuybyshev Hydroelectric Station which was built in the 50's is almost 3000m wide, it's been a LONG time since the Hoover Dam was the worlds widest. Given the fact that the Hoover Dam is very narrow for a its overall size, I'd be pretty surprised if it was ever the worlds widest.

Yeah, I always thought Hoover was impressive for it's height, not width. And WP says it was the highest dam in the US when built (and is now the 2nd highest). Dunno about worldwide, but really, I don't care exactly, it's a tall dam in any case. Let's see some stupid beaver build a damn over 700 ft tall!

If it ever cuts loose there will be an epic flood. Did the Beaver Inspectors ever get a look at it? After all Size isn't everything. How many logs went into that thing anyway? Was it checked for strength, flexibility under loads, ability to hold back before gushing? This could be pretty important for anyone below it. Canada's National Honour could be at stake!

Stan: It's MY fault. I broke the dam.Cartman: Aw, man...Sharon Marsh:...Stanley...you?Man: No. Don't you see what this child is saying? We can't spend all our energy placing blame when something bad happens. He's saying...we all broke the dam.Stan: No. I broke the dam.Woman: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Stan: No. I broke the dam.Woman: And I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Cartman: Hehe...I broke the dam!Man: I broke the dam.Woman: I broke the dam.Stan: [trying to insist] I broke the dam. I ran a boat into the dam and I broke it.Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Stan: No! I broke the fucking dam!Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Stan: I literally broke the dam!Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Stan: On a boat! That wasn't mine!Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Stan: I kept it secret for two days!Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Stan: The boat caught on fire and it exploded!Man: I broke the dam.Man: I broke the dam.Stan: Aw, fuck it!

If it ever cuts loose there will be an epic flood. Did the Beaver Inspectors ever get a look at it? After all Size isn't everything. How many logs went into that thing anyway? Was it checked for strength, flexibility under loads, ability to hold back before gushing? This could be pretty important for anyone below it. Canada's National Honour could be at stake!

Eh, and technically anything that's not obscured by a tree, cloud or something else can be seen from space. The US' spy satellites can see things down to the size of about a grapefruit, and probably smaller now, so that would make most beaver dams visible from space with current technology.

From the Vancouver Sun:
"[Park spokesman Mike Keizer] suspects the beavers have been working on it for some time, in part because it is overgrown with vegetation and progressive satellite images from as far back as the 1970s show it expanding year after year."