Tree Planting

Quick Guide
1) Prepare for tree plantings by spraying the fall before either a 3' wide band or circle killing sod with 1-2 quarts of glyphosate, 1 ounce of Oust XP/SFM 75 and 1 quart of crop oil in September or October. (do not use Oust on fruit trees or Highbush Cranberry)

Source for generic Oust as well as every imaginable type of herbicide!!

2) order trees early from nurseries listed below (many sell out by November!!)

3) plant trees as early as possible in spring (early to mid April in lower midwest) Plant immediately upon arrival or heel in trees until you can plant (dig a trench deep enough to lay seedling roots in and cover and water)

4) Spray either just before or after planting with 2 quarts simazine (Princep) and 2 quarts pendimethalin (Prowl 3EC, Pendulum 3.3 EC) per acre, if grass is present and trees not yet planted add 1 quart glyphosate, if trees are planted add 12 ounces clethodim and one quart crop oil and leave out the gly. Use that combination in a 3-5 al BP sprayer or per 5 gal on water in an ATV/UTV type sprayer. Simazine and Prowl can be ordered from your local ag co-op but Keystone carries them as well.

5) Oaks, chestnuts, walnuts etc are best tubed to encourage growth and protect against damage from deer and other wildlife. Shrubs may be tubed or fenced. The following is a source that at this time has the best tubes for the least cost that I am aware of. I have tested many brands of tubes but many fail miserably but Miracle tubes have performed very well!

6) pack dirt around the bottom of tubes to keep mice out and moisture in,10' lengths of 1/2 conduit cut into 5' length's is an inexpensive source of stakes (.75c to $1 a piece)

7) Control weeds for 3-10 years to encourage faster growth and to keep mice and rabbits away from tubes/trees

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It's getting that time of year, to order seedlings and prepare for tree planting. These photos were taken 6-8 years ago.
The single best thing I ever did was plant Autumn Olives several rows thick around my property line. Now they are considered an invasive plant, however they have not spread on my place. They grow extremely fast, provide a great cover and a dense screen. You can see (barely) High Bush Cranberry to the left next to the lane and they are barely a few feet high and planted the same time as the Olives! These Autumn Olives were 3 years old when the picture was taken.

Please note that my Autumn Olives were planted nearly 13 years ago, well before they were considered invasive.

They work well for me and I have thousands so they are there to stay, however I am in no way advocating planting them now.

There are many native, non-invasive alternatives to choose from.

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Planting trees with a County Conservation Board planter

Sod killed with Roundup in September to prepare for spring planting of trees on CRP ground.

Tree planting using Oust and Princep herbicides to control weeds.

If your thinking about planting trees and shrubs for wildlife food, cover or a "poacher screen" check out:

Black Oak - Quercus velutina This is a large tree, sometimes growing more than 100 feet in height.The thick, nearly black bark is marked with deep furrows and irregularly broken ridges. The characteristic inner bark is bright yellow to orange, hence the alternate common name. This tree grows on dry uplands, slopes and ridges.

The wood, while hard and strong is not tough, checks while drying and generally is inferior to that of the Red Oak. Still, it is used in much the same ways. Historically, the inner bark was important for its tannin and as a source of yellow dye. The bitter acorn is inedible.

Pin Oak - Quercus palustris The mature tree is distinctive from a distance with its ascending upper branches, horizontal middle branches, and drooping lower branches. The round acorns are the smallest of Ohio's oak trees. The Pin Oak grows in wet, often poorly drained soils of bottomlands and swamps. The strong, close-grained woods warps and checks badly in drying and has limited uses. Various wildlife, including Wood Ducks, feed on the acorns.

Chinquapin Oak - Quercus muehlenbergii The light gray or silvery-white bark of this tree resembles that of the White Oak. The tree grows well on the rich soils of bottomlands, but it also is found on drier hillsides.

The strong, durable wood is used for railroad ties, fuel and construction lumber. Its inclination to check badly during drying, however, makes it of little value for cabinetry and better furniture.

Quercus prinoides usually doesn't grow more than 20 feet tall, and it begins producing acorns at a young age, often when only three or four years old.
Unlike many oaks, once it starts bearing, it has a good crop almost every year. Its acorns are also less bitter and more palatable to wildlife than those of most other oaks.

Chinkapin oak is closely related to the smaller but generally similar dwarf chinkapin oak (Quercus prinoides). Besides the differences in size, the two species can be distinguished by their typical habitat: chinkapin oak is typically found on calcareous soils and rocky slopes while dwarf chinkapin oak is more likely to be found on sandy soils.
Although these two oaks are generally regarded as separate species, they are sometimes considered to belong to the same species. Interestingly, when the two are considered to be conspecific, the larger chinkapin oak is often identified as a variety of dwarf chinkapin oak (as Quercus prinoides var. acuminata) because the later was described first.

Chinkapin oak is also sometimes confused with the related chestnut oak. However, unlike the pointed teeth on the leaves of the chinkapin oak, the chestnut oak generally has rounded teeth. Unfortunately, this distinction is often not readily apparent. A more reliable means of distinguishing the two is by the bark. Chinkapin oak has a gray, flaky bark very similar to white oak but with a more yellow-brown cast to it, hence the occasional name yellow oak. Chestnut oak has dark, solid, deeply ridged bark that is very different. The chinkapin oak also has smaller acorns than the chestnut or swamp chestnut oaks, which have some of the largest.

Prairie Pioneer™ Dwarf Chinkapin Oak - Quercus prinoides ‘Fort Lincoln’
Dwarf Chinkapin Oak grows typically as a multi-stemmed, suckering, large shrub or small tree, 6 - 16 feet in height. It is native in the eastern U.S. as far west as southeastern Minnesota, eastern Nebraska and Texas.

Prairie Pioneer™ is a seedling selection grown from seed collected from a native stand in southeast Nebraska by Greg Morgenson, manager of Lincoln-Oakes Nurseries, Bismarck, ND. This novel, small-statured, tree-like cultivar is collaboratively released by NDSU and may reach 24-28 feet in height at maturity.

It has withstood -35 to -40◦F numerous times in Bismarck, ND, and therefore is hardy in zone 4, and potentially zone 3b as well. Prairie Pioneer™ was selected for its dark green, very lustrous foliage and upright growth habit easily trained to a single stem. The leaves vary from 2 - 4 ½ inches long, ovate-oblong to obovate, acute tipped and wedge-shaped at base, with 4 - 6 shallow undulate to dentate teeth on each side.

The lustrous foliage is somewhat reminiscent of the leaf quality on broadleaf evergreen holly species. The underside of the leaves is finely tomentose and lighter colored. In spring, trees are covered with yellow male catkins before leaves emerge, and sessile acorns are produced if a suitable white oak member species is in the area for pollination. Fall color is typically yellow to tannish-brown.

Propagation is by side grafting on containerized seedlings of chinkapin oak (Q. muehlenbergii), swamp white oak (Q. bicolor) or preferably, bur oak, if proven to be compatible. Prairie Pioneer™ merits attention as a dense, quality-foliaged small tree for residential landscapes and various sites where large trees are unsuitable.

Swamp white oak - Quercus bicolor is a deciduous tree with a broad, rounded crown. The dark, shiny green leaves are silver on the bottom side. Fall color is usually yellow, but sometimes reddish purple.

Though ornamentally insignificant, flowers bloom in April attracting pollen-seeking insects that attract migrating vireos, tanagers and warblers in search of a meal. Large acorns mature in early fall providing food for deer, wild turkey, black bear, fox and gray squirrels.

Indigenous to moist, bottomland locations, this oak has surprisingly good drought resistance.

A dominant forest tree on dry to moist sites throughout the Commonwealth usually reaching 80'-100' high. This tree is very important to both wildlife and people.

The acorn is an important wildlife food and eastern Native Americans made a flour from these acorns. Traditional uses of White oak wood include hardwood flooring, whiskey barrels and boat building. The famous Revolutionary War frigate, USS Constitution, "Old Ironsides", was made of White oak.

The "white oak group" includes all oaks without bristle-tipped lobes and acorns that ripen in one season

Sawtooth Oak (Quercus acutissima) is in the red oak family. Native to Asia, it is noted for its fast growth (two feet per year) and early acorn production.

The first acorns are routinely produced in five to 10 years versus the 25 or 30 years it usually takes native oaks to start producing acorns.

The acorns are large and dropped in September or early October. The sawtooth is also noted for its consistent annual production and not being as subject to frosts or poor crops which often limit white oak production.

Although the red oak group has a reputation for being less palatable (containing more tannic acid) than the white oak group, the sawtooth does not.

Sawtooths will reach 50 to 70 feet in height. They are sometimes used as an ornamental shade tree, but retain the dead leaves on the limb well into winter.

Sawtooth leaves are similar to American chestnut leaves but are smaller, four to eight inches long, and have more sharply pointed teeth. Yields from mature trees in good years range from 1,000 to 1,300 pounds of acorns per tree.

A Concordia Oak is a 3-way cross between a swamp white oak, chinkapin oak and dwarf chinkapin oak.

In 1974 botanist Paul Thompson noticed an unusual oak at an I-70 rest stop near Concordia. His discovery revealed a botanically rare, three-way hybrid that occurs only in Lafayette County. At the time, few specimens remained. Concordians hurried to get the rare acorns to the state nursery. Thanks to Friends of the Concordia Oak and the George O. White State Nursery, the oak’s future is secure. To learn more about seedling availability, call Concordia Parks and Recreation at 660-463-4277.

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There is some confusion between another "concordia oak" as mentioned here...

The name “Concordia oak,” used for the threeway hybrid from Lafayette County, already designates a small cultivar of the English oak (Q. robur ‘Concordia’, known for its bright yellow spring leaves). Surely taxonomists will want to avoid confusion here. Could you tell us what botanical epithet, if any, has been settled for the Missouri tree, and identify its three parents?
David Dunlap, West Plains

Editors’ note: You’re right—Concordia oak is also a common name for the English oak cultivar you mentioned below. Our Concordia is Quercus X introgressa (named by botanist P.M. Thompson).

I'll try to put some of these in the appropriate threads but here are just a few cost share options to consider for various forest improvement practices. Be certain to read the EQIP practice link carefully and note that simple wording can double a payment per acre!!

Iowa only....REAP Practices must be approved by IDNR Forester and paid once inspected by the IDNR Forester and bill submitted.

In all cases either the forester or NRCS Tech will need to inspect the finished practice before the operator/landowner can be paid. Usually a simple bill will suffice (10 acres TSI X $160 for example) but in some cases they will want an itemized (seedlings, herbicides, fuel, labor etc) that add up to the total cost share.

The federal programs are not cost share, just a payment per acre so slightly different then the state programs.

Talk with NRCS and your local forester/private land biologist for more details but even they get confused, so look over the links and be informed yourself!
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I tried using Princep granular on my plantings the last two years with mediocre success. Up until late June or early July it seemed to help quite a bit but then the weeds and grass came in thick. I mixed about a pound to pound and a half (dont remember exactly) of dry Princep with 15 gal of water and applied with an ATV sprayer until the dirt around the tree was damp. This was done 04-04-05.

Like I said, it helped but I still ended up having to either Round-up later or manually remove the weeds. I have not tried Oust because of the cost, but a friend is going to try it this year.

Have you tried Princep alone and what were your results? Did you apply your Princep differently than I did? Is one application of Oust sufficent for the whole year

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Princep works as a residual more like Atrazine and on my ground, which is very heavy clay, I have to put on a min. of 4 qts to the acre to even make a dent and it works better on bare ground. I don't think you can put Princep on heavy enough to kill year old seedlings.

The Oust is the very best IMO, but it is expensive and potent enough to cause injury to some newly planted seedlings, but safe for conifers and oak seedlings.

Surflan A.S. and Princep is a great combination and perhaps safer to new shrub seedlings.

For smaller plantings I use Roundup and Princep. I use a 2x2 screwed to an upside down 5 gal. bucket and a back pack sprayer(after the seedlings are planted) and set the bucket over each seedling, spray...move on to the next one.

Most evergreens, one can spray Roundup over top of the trees as long as they are not actively growing (producing new growth)which of course can be tricky...

Fall is best for that cause you need the grass growing but the trees not!

To answer your ?? directly , I think you need to at least double the application rate of Princep.

I'd love to try the Oust, but I think my friend said it was around $600 for a minimum purchase, or at least that was what it was going to cost for one years supply. For that kind of money I may stick to round-up even if it takes me several days to apply it. What kind of price did you find on Oust?

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Oust is about $5.50 an oz and Townsend Chemical will sell you however much you need.

Depending on type of trees 2-4 oz per acre.(varies for evergrees and hardwoods)

Weed control spectrum Annual broadleaf weeds and some grass suppression.

Leaching potential Low leaching potential and low water solubility.

Relative persistence Soil half-life is 5 to 6 months.

Application information Apply pre-emergence in late summer, early fall or in early spring prior to weed germination. Treated areas should be free of weeds or weeds should be controlled before application. Use a minimum of 10 gpa of water.

Weed control spectrum Some annual grass weeds including foxtail and several annual broadleaf weeds including kochia.

Leaching potential Nearly immobile.

Relative persistence Slightly persistent. Will control some weeds for one year or less.

Application information Do not incorporate. Use pre-emergence or postemergence. Pre-emergence is most effective when applied to soil free of plant residue and soil surface is not disturbed.

For postemergence, apply with nonionic surfactant at 2 pints/100 gallons of water and make thorough coverage. Apply before grasses are larger than the 2-leaf stage and broadleaf weeds are larger than 4-leaf stage. Use 2 lb. ai/A in areas of high weed competition for longer residual herbicide activity.

Labeled combinations May be applied with other pre-emergence herbicides registered for use in windbreaks.

Comments Conifers_Apply pretransplant, postemergence or post-directed prior to budbreak or after new foliage has hardened off. Follow label "specific use restrictions" carefully.

Hardwoods_Apply pretransplant or post-directed prior to budbreak. Spray only the base of deciduous trees and not over-the-top. Oxyfluorfen applied after budbreak may injure deciduous species.
If a nondormant application is required, apply after new tree foliage has fully expanded and hardened off and not during periods of new growth.

Avoid direct or indirect spray contact with foliage of deciduous trees. User must possess
North Dakota 24(c) SLN label for Goal 2XL at time of application.

Labeled combinations No combinations are labeled or specifically prohibited.

Comments Rainfall or mechanical incorporation will improve weed control. Controls germinating weeds, not established plants. Treated area should be free of any weedy plant material prior to application.

Directed application to uniformly cover desired area will result in optimum weed control.

Weed control spectrum Some grasses, suppression of quackgrass and control of many annual broadleaf weeds.

Leaching potential Slightly mobile.

Relative persistence Persistent. Will provide weed control for 1 to 2 years depending on rate used and soil pH.

Application information: Pre-emergence herbicide applied in spring or late fall. Fall application provides best weed control. Only Princep formulations listed above are labeled for use on shelterbelts. Use lower rate on first year plantings.

Delay application to new plantings until trees are established 6 weeks or preferably until late fall. Do not use on light sandy soil. Use high rates on heavy, high organic matter soil and for full season weed control in established plantings. Risk of injury is greater on high pH soils (above 7.5).

Comments: Avoid application where herbicide may be concentrated into planting furrow. Tree tolerance is fair to good.

New plantings are less tolerant. Emerged weeds are not controlled. Quackgrass requires the maximum rate applied in the fall or apply as a split application with half applied in the fall and half applied in the spring after quackgrass growth begins.

Application information Apply pre-emergence in late summer, early fall or in early spring prior to weed germination, or immediately after cultivation that removes existing plant material. Requires 0.5 to 1 inch of water for activation.

Labeled combinations No herbicides are recommended nor restricted.

Comments Product should not be mechanically incorporated. Repeat applications at 150 lb/A should notbe made sooner than 60 days after initial treatment. Optimum weed control is achieved when herbicides are activated by rain or irrigation within three days after application. Do not apply to newly transplanted trees.

Comments Trifluralin is available in many formulations. Use only those formulations labeled for use in tree plantings.

Trifluralin is safe (for human exposure, the environment, and to most woody plant species), effective, nonleaching, reliable and provides several months of residual grass and some small-seeded broadleaf weed control depending on rate used.

Many woody species are not specifically listed on the trifluralin label, however, the user can use trifluralin on nonlabeled species by assuming all responsibility for plant damage or loss.

Comments Surflan* A.S. herbicide is a preemergence surface-applied product for the control of many annual grasses and broadleaf weeds in ornamental plantings, bulbs, ground covers/perennials, established warm-season turfgrass, Christmas tree plantations, non-bearing trees and vines, and noncropland and industrial sites.

Surflan A.S. is orange in color and may cause temporary discoloration of sprayed surfaces. If this discoloration is undesirable, it may be altered by using a commercially available colorant such as Blazon or removed by spraying surface with water
or washing with an industrial cleaner immediately after application.

Surflan A.S.may also be applied with mulch colorants, such as Mulch Magic or Nu-Mulch.

Application information Postemergence, translocated herbicide with no soil residual. Can be applied over-the-top of all tree species.

Labeled combinations No combinations are labeled. Should be used in combination with a broadleaf weed control program.

Comments Fusilade use in trees is a specialty product and covered by special labeling. Agricultural formulations do not include these uses. Fusilade and Ornamec provide excellent control of emerged grasses.

Repeat applications give fair to good control of quackgrass. Oil additive is required at 1 qt/A.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What type of trees/shrubs are there that are similiar to the Autumn olives. Are any available from the state nursery? </div></div>

Check out the State Nursery Shrub list. Nannyberry is one that may do well compared to Autumn Olives. I've tried several native shrubs and they either didn't do well or died all together, so you can see why I preferred the Olives. It figures that invasives do well and natives struggle... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

DBL: I hear you on the Autum Olives - I planted those at my old place and really liked them and also never saw them as "invasive" (although, the dogwoods sure spread!). Which native shrubs did you try that weren't successful? The reason I ask is that I'm planting a "poacher screen" too and one of the 4 rows (recommended by the state nursery folks) is going to be the highbush cranberry & hazelnut. Looks like you have some experience with the cranberry's from your photos....any input would be appreciated.

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The Highbush Cranberries seem to do well but they just don't make a dense enough screen in the fall when I need it most.

I'm working on giving Silky Dogwood, Wild Plum, Hazelnut and others a try. It's unfortunate that the Autumn Olives can be invasive because they are near perfect in every other respect.

They make a complete screen within 3-4 years, last virtually forever and produce berries birds love. So what other alternatives do we have? What will so the trick here in Iowa?

WindbreakTrees.com has a great list of potential trees and shrubs for windbreaks and shelterbelts. Done properly they will provide a great poacher screen, wildlife cover and windbreak.

Here is a field windbreak that is 15 years old and ½ mile long in Iowa. It is a total of 86 ft wide with Red Cedar on the outside (left side) spaced 8 ft apart. Next row is White Pine and European Larch spaced 10 ft apart in the row. Next two rows are hardwoods, 7 kinds of Oaks, Walnuts, Ash, Hickory, and Hackberry spaced 6 ft apart. On the inside (right side) is Norway and White Spruce spaced 12 ft apart. About ½ of these trees will be removed in the future a little at a time to give the others room to grow.

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Conifers are the ultimate to do everything we require from a "poacher screen" except they don't have the fast growth rates.

This is why we include a mix of shrubs, trees and conifers and the ultimate conifer her in Iowa is the red cedar. Deer rarely bother it either by eating it or rubbing itin the fall. It's only drawback is fairly slow growth.

The Red Cedar is not really a Cedar but is actually a juniper. It has a medium growth rate of 12-24” per year with sticky foliage that is a dull green and in the winter can turn brown or purple. In the open its branches extend to the ground giving excellent protection. It is native to most of the US from Canada to Florida and Texas. Plant trees that come from your native area if possible for best survival.
It normally grows 30 or more ft tall with some specimens reaching over 80 ft and 30 ft wide. It can live a very long life with some specimens in Iowa are over 500 years old on rocky high spots. Wind and ice storms sometimes damage its small root system and weak wood. Deer will not eat this species, have seen some damage by rabbits in a very bad winter. The female plants have a large number of berries that many kinds of birds eat.

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My second choice is Norway Spruce but hormone charged bucks have killed literally thousands of them on my place. What they haven't killed they have kept stunted, so if you plant them you will need to fence them. Trust me...they LOVE to rub the bristly branches and will DESTROY them!!

They also get extremely tall in time so just allow for this if planting near power lines.

The Norway Spruce is our favorite and best large evergreen for windbreaks.
The Norway Spruce is a fast growing (2-3’ per year) evergreen that has dark green needles that are 1 inch long. It never drops its needles but keeps them on for up to 10 years. Its branches extend to the ground, giving excellent wind protection. It is a native of Europe where it grows throughout the region.

It will grow to 100+ ft tall and 25+ ft wide, it is very wind firm due to its large spreading root system, and tough flexible wood. It does live a very long life in windbreaks of over 100 years old in most soils. Due to its shape, heavy snow and ice storms cause little damage. Deer will not normally eat this species unless there is nothing else available.

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White Spruce form a denser screen more like Red Cedar and are a little slower growing then Norways. Again, fence them or you will regret it!

The White Spruce is a medium to fast growing (2ft plus) evergreen that has a light green or even bluish colored needles that are about 1 inch long. It has a strong evergreen smell when crushed and is one way to tell it from other spruce. It never drops its needles and can stay on for as long as 20 years. Its branches extend clear to the ground giving excellent low level wind protection. It is a native of the northern US and extending to the very end of the tree line in Canada.
It will grow up to 60+ ft tall and 20+ ft wide it is very wind firm with the large spreading root system and flexible tough wood. It can live 80+ years in windbreaks and most do. Due to its shape, heavy snow and ice storms cause little damage. Deer will not normally eat this species unless there is nothing else.

It will grow well in hardiness zones from 2-6 and some places in zone 6 can be too hot for this species in the summer. It does like a colder climate and does well in a variety of soils and quite well in clay soil and in higher PH soils up to 9. Does best in well-drained soil with a PH of 7.0 and lower. Can take more moisture and does well in level areas that can be too wet for other species in wet years.

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White Pines are beautiful but they have some serious drawbacks as deer will both eat them and rub them. They get very tall in time and as they do they begin to lose their bottom branches and with that, the ability to screen.

Turkeys love to roost in them and they have a place in tree plantings but the require a great deal of protection for a long long time compared to Red Cedar needing none.

The White Pine is a fast growing (2-3 ft per year or more) evergreen that has needles of from 3-6 inches long and are arranged in bundles of five on the stem. In Sep-Oct this pine “sheds “ all of its needles that grew out the previous year. These needles make excellent mulch but are also very flammable, so fire and sparks must be kept away from the base of these trees. When grown in the open its branches extend to the ground, when grown in windbreaks they usually looses these lower branches, which is common in the pine family. It is a native of northern third of the US extending as far south as the mountains in Georgia.

It will grow up to 80ft tall + and 25 ft or more wide, its large spreading root system is very wind firm, but its branches are slightly brittle and can be damaged by snow, ice, and windstorms. It can live over 100 years in windbreaks but usually has a shorter lifespan because of being broken up by wind and ice storms. On a well drained, moist soil this species will outgrow any other evergreen that can be planted there, and a 20 year old tree can be 50 ft tall. Deer will readily eat this species and due to all the new growth coming out of the very tip of a branch, browsing can severely deform or kill this plant

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There are many possibles including Techny Arborvitae which also can provide a great screen and a palatable winter food source for deer.

Seedlings might be pricer then conventional conifers but effective just the same.

The Techny Arborvitae is a clone of its parent plant the White Cedar or American Arborvitae. This special cultivar was found growing in the wild and due to its strong characteristics has been cloned ever since. It is a medium growing (1-2ft per year) evergreen that has a dark green soft foliage. In September of each year it “sheds “ all the growth that grew out the previous year and it drops to the ground creating a very nice mulch around the tree. Its parent plant is a native to the northern US where it grows extensively and some fine, large specimens can be found on Mackinac Island on Lake Heron in Michigan.
They will grow 30+ ft tall and 15+ft wide and the spreading root system is very wind firm but the wood is not quite so strong and can be damaged by high winds, snow and ice. This tree can live100 years or longer, its parent plant can live over 500 years in the north. Age limiting factor is usually how close they are planted together as close planting and dry weather will shorten life. This tree has multiple leaders, so some damage to the top of the tree in ice and snow just lets one of the other “leaders” take over so the effect is minor in a windbreak. The foliage extends down to the ground, excellent for blocking winds. Deer enjoy eating this foliage in the winter but are rarely killed as new foliage just sprouts from the branches even if no green is showing. Deer repellant or fencing may have to be used in some area. The Techny Arborvitae grows well in a hardiness zone from 3-7 and likes over 25" of rain per year in areas with adequate soil to hold moisture during the dry months. Does not do well in sandy soil as has a shallow root system and should not be planted there. Will grow well in high ph soils such as along gravel roads, in clay soils and soils with extra moisture.

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I have very high deer densities and I have tried many different tree/shrub species and so I can say for a fact that of the conifers, Red Cedar out performs all others will little care compared to other conifers.

That brings us back to shrubs which have been covered previously in this thread.

The American Plum is potential screen canidate but be aware that it too can sucker and spread.(what makes it ok and Autumn Olive not?? )

The American Plum is a native U.S. plant and occurs in the eastern 2/3 of the country. It could be considered a large shrub or small tree and can reach over 20 ft tall. It has hardiness rating of zones 3-7. It can be seen in heavy thickets that are spread by root suckers and other plants seem to have only one stem. In the early spring it has masses of white flowers.
The plum grows quite fast and seems to live a long time with large stems dieing and others taking their place. They have a 1’ long sharp point that is throughout the stems of the tree. They have large quantities of red or yellow fruit that matures in August here in Iowa. Many species of birds and animals eat this fruit. People often make jams out of the fruits.

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I like Silky Dogwood because it can take a little more "thrashing" and survive. Better for wet areas also.

The Silky Dogwood is a medium sized rounded shrub. It has a medium growth rate and on the average is about 10 ft tall and wide at maturity, but can be larger if sufficient room is given. It will grow in hardiness zoned of between 4 to 8 and will survive in wetter areas where most other shrubs would not survive.
Usually in August it has a multitude of seeds that are quickly eaten by birds and other animals. It looks very nice for about 10-15 years and then does tend to get more open with large branches dieing back. To rejuvenate simply cut the whole plant off just above the ground and let then resprout.

We recommend the Silky Dogwood in wetter areas and with other shrubs used for windbreaks and shelterbelts. We recommend they be planted at least 6 ft apart for best performance.

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Nannyberry is one that does form a fairly dense screen and can be difficult to see through after leaf drop.
I have some growing but they are still small.

The Nannyberry is a shrub native to the eastern 1/2 of the U.S. It has been shown to be hardy in zones 3-7. It should be considered a large shrub or small tree as it will can grow to 25ft tall. Has a nice white flower in the late spring with fleshy black fruit in the fall, they are quickly consumed by the birds.
It does well in most soils, and does sucker up from the roots so spacing from larger windbreak or shelterbelt tress need to be considered, and recommend 20 ft. Fall color can be a nice red, or in some years there is no fall color at all. Grows well with the other viburnam species.

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My hazelnuts are also small but they appear to have some screening possibles. I can tell you they are a pain to plant with HUGE root systems!!

The Hazelnut grows in a hardiness zones of between 4 and 8. It is a medium to large sized (10ft+) multi-stemmed shrub that has a medium growth rate. It is native to America and grows in the eastern 2/3 of the country. It grows in most soils except for the very wet.
The hazelnut can spread with its suckering of the roots and can spread where not wanted. Some places can get quite large of over 12 ft tall and wide. Its nuts are about 1/2 inch round and are very sweet and found in grocery stores everywhere. They are a favorite food of squirrels and rodents, which usually get to them before people do.

The hazelnut makes a good plant for windbreaks and shelterbelts but should be placed well away from trees so they do not compete against each other. We recommend a spacing of at least 6-8 ft apart in the row for best growth and long life.

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I enjoy trying different trees and shrubs that are good for wildlife, screen my property and leave a lasting legacy. It's fun to see them grow but dissapointing when the fail.

I've had a lot of failures but I keep ate it and find out what works and what doesn't.

Silvertip- I have no experience with Autum olive but I have planted nanking cherry, wild plum, and redosier dogwood, all of which are available from the IDNR nursery.
The Cherry and Plum were planted in old pasture and have done ok, but not great. In the areas that I have really concentrated on eliminating competition they have grown to about 3'-5' but in other areas they are 2'-3' after 3 years. My dogwoods are 2 years old and were planted in a cropfield. Everything I planted in cropground has done better, presuably due to the looser soils. After 2 years the dogwoods went from a 2' whip to nice 3'-4' shrubs and fairly thick. The deer browse them heavily but they seem to bounce back fine. A local nursery guy said that deer browse on dogwoods was fine as it acts as a natural pruning to encourage the plant to thicken up. I'm not sure my dogwoods would make a good poacher screen but I wouldnt want to try to thread a bullet through them either, though they need to get taller. Out of 100 dogwoods planted I think virtually every one survived, which I cant say for the others. Of the three, I like the dogwoods the best, JMO.

As for weed/grass control, this year I am switching to a 3pt bushhog which should allow me to get a little closer to the trees vs the pull-behind mower with wheels outside the deck. Hopefully that will help cut down on the competition I have to spray.
Regardless of what you plant, if your going to go to all the effort I strongly recommend you fence them somehow if you have many deer. You can baby a tree all year(s) long only to have it wiped out in one night otherwise. Shrubs do seem to be more tolerant of deer damage than trees though.

dbltree, What would you recommend for spacing between each plant as well as between the rows to produce a good poacher screen when using autumn olives?

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We planted them anywhere from 2-4 ft. apart in rows 8 ft apart. The closer spacing ended up becoming a thicker screen then where we spread them out. As TP mentioned mowing is a big help the first year or two, so consider the row spacing it you have a small tractor and brush hog that would allow you to mow in between rows.

I would say the Autumn Olives are tough enough to stand everything from bucks thrashing them in the fall, to rabbits eating all the bark off and even severe sub-zero weather...they will just resprout and take right off again, to bad they are considered invasive now.

Look closely at the bottom picture, above and you can kind of see how we spaced them...it's not an exact science with a tree planter /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Autumn Olives and Highbush Cranberry at 4 years old. For comparison as far as a screen.

4 Yr Highbush Cranberry...follow down the row and you can get a pretty good idea that it isn't "screening" much!

4 yr old Autumn Olives planted same day, same herbicides as the High Bush Cranberry

I'm going to try several more types including Nannyberry, hazelnut, redosier dogwood and Ninebark to see if any other varieties will produce a suitable screen in...my lifetime!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I'm going to keep working on filling in with Red Cedars as well, both with seedlings and transplanting wild ones sprouting up in the CRP.

Here's a few pics of spacing comparisons for Autumn Olives. They will fill in quite aways and even without leaves they make a pretty dense screen, although you can see the advantage of red cedars for a "no fail" poacher screen.

This one shows that very close spacings don't really make for a denser screen. Planting two rows and alternating spacings is a better and more cost efficient way to go.

This is a comparison of Autumn Olives and Highbush Cranberry at 8 yrs.

These are 8 yr old Sawtooth Oaks which have grown very quickly. They should start producing acorns very soon. They are considered an invasive, mostly in southern states, but I can't imagine them being more invasive then Shingle Oak! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

I have planted a number of hybrid oaks form Okios Tree Crops. They are most likely a better bet since they are all native oaks, which do "crossbreed" in the wild, hence the fast growing hybrids. They aren't cheap but I try to plant a few every year.

As far as weed control around fruit trees, try laying down cardboard around base of tree. Smothers weeds real good. throw some sod or rocks on top to hold down. Not only does it smother weeds,,in couple yrs it totally disinigrates into soil and fertilizes trees. Of coarse if you have many trees may not be practical, but old cardboard is usually easy to come by for nothing.

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Great idea, I imagine one could get plenty of cardboard at supermarkets just for asking.
Here's a commercial version and staples to hold the tree mats down. For oaks, fruit trees and even evergreens I think they would work great...no spraying needed!

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Wouldn't harmful heat be an issue with the black color? I would think a Summer sun would just cook the tree.

If not, you could just buy a roll of heavy mil plastic at a building center.

Next time your tooling on up 218 towards IC, ck out the tree plantings on the west side Ghost. They are using basically what your talking about. I haven't watched it being done but I think they apply the weed barrier as they plant.

Check out this link for comparisons of all types of weed control from mowing, weed barriers and Oust herbicide. The black plastic apparantly helps the ground warm up faster, helps preserve moisture and get's the tree growing quicker. The study was done in Kansas so I guess if they didn't cook there were safe using it in Iowa!

I have used the stinger on my 12,000 loblollys with good sucess.I still have 2 quarts and I think it cost me 125.00 a quart.I have a 3 point sprayer now with a 10 ft boom and plan on planting pines in the spring if all works out?
trust me the stinger is a good product and even kills canadian thistle which I had a problem with.
doug

I've also had problems with mice girdling trees which were otherwise protected (caged) from deer and did not have carpet or other mulch around them. You can keep the mice out with tree wrap or, a trick I learned from an apple orchard was to just paint the trucks with flat white paint up about 18" or so. This also seemed to work and was faster to apply than tree wrap (and cheaper since I just used leftover paint I already had around the house). I don't know if it is fool proof but it worked for me

The seedlings came packed well in plastic bags inside paper bags. They were very large seedlings 18" to 24" however I was not impressed to see the roots were nearly dry! The surest way to kill new seedlings is to let the roots dry out before planting!! It only takes a few minutes on a day like today when a warm dry wind can dry out the roots in moments. I always use a bucket of water to carry seedlings if they are larger or a "planting bag" for smaller seedlings.

When I returned home I had a box of 300 seedlings from Coldstream Farms which were all packed in a sphagnum type moss which keeps the roots moist until planting. I guess time will tell how well the IDNR seedlings survive.

Since I was unable to plant the rest of the seedlings, I "heeled" them in for now, meaning I just planted the bunches temporarily in a shaded spot and packed them tightly with soil until I can plant them.

The seedlings from the IDNR had massive root systems so we used shovels rather then a planting bar and had to carefully push the roots deep with our fingers and then stomp the opening tightly. Air to the root system is an enemy of new seedlings.

Smaller seedlings are much easier to plant with a planting bar.
I planted all the shrub seedlings 3-4 ft apart in rows 6-8 ft apart along a low area exposed to the road. The soil is to wet for the Red Cedar so I planted them on higher ground, also for "poacher screens"

I have 100 red cedar coming on Friday, if Buck10 gets them picked up with his order. I havent had too much trouble with dry roots from IDNR, but I always pour water into the bag as soon as I open it. Then I take out 15-20 and put them in a bucket with water, go plant 'em, come back for more, and so on. Dry roots kill 'em quick for sure.

I planted a riparian buffer in 2002 with several different shrubs. They all did well. One note on the hazelnut. EVERY single one died off the first year. EVERY single one grew back the next spring from the root, so don't get discouraged and replant. They look great now but the deer love to browse them. The forester said it must be a thing with hazelnut, or just the weather that year, but all the other varieties did well right away.

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That's good to know because hazelnut is one of the few I have never tried before. I'll watch it and see if it takes off this year or not.

I just put 900 cedars in this past weekend. It is a acre of 6'x8' rows. I like the looks of the pines better but the deer browse them to much.

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We finished planting another 350 trees/shrubs today. All the red cedars I planted to fill in where the deer have killed the Norway Spruce

The hazlenuts were a real pain to plant, they had a root system like an umbrella! We had to dig holes big enough to get the roots in rather then using our dibble bars for normal sized seedlings. Hope the darn things live.

I'll have to partly disagree with some of the thoughts on not planting the pines and spruces in favor of the red cedars due to the deer eating up the pines and spruces. That is the very reason to start with them. The part that I do agree with is to perhaps is to use the red cedars for filling the voids. Good cover is one thing but something that provides both cover and a preferred food source is even better.

I wouldnt mind the deer taking a bite of my pines here and there but when they end up lookin like the picture below they amount to a really inefficent food plot. The deer dont bother my spruces nearly as much. They hardly bother my cedars at all. I expect that when the pines outgrow their cages in 5-10 years they will survive but be stripped on the lower 4' or 5'. They wont supply any food then and will have decreased value as cover. I really like pines, I just dont see how anybody grows them unprotected around any kind of a deer population? For a food / cover combo I would go with corn.

Those pines look great 150. I hope mine look that nice in 15-20 years. What kind are they? They look like Scotch or Austrian maybe?
The trees I have trouble with are whites and reds, I think I should have went with a different species. My deer density is actually fairly low and there is no shortage of food. I walked that field to the left of my pic this spring and found plenty of whole ears of corn lying there untouched. They seem to just like the pines as a treat. This spring I planted 2 foodplots in that corn field, I'll have to wait to see if that helps or hurts by just bringing in more (which is the whole idea I suppose).

Dbltree, do you know the name of that disease, and where it is currently at? There are virtually no wild pines around here, just a few ornamentals here and there.

BTW, a guy from my county conservation board was out a week or so ago to see what he would be planting for me (CRP). He said they have given up on the pines due to the damage also and have switched to only cedars.

Dbltree, do you know the name of that disease, and where it is currently at? There are virtually no wild pines around here, just a few ornamentals here and there.

BTW, a guy from my county conservation board was out a week or so ago to see what he would be planting for me (CRP). He said they have given up on the pines due to the damage also and have switched to only cedars.

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Here's a link to some disease info. I have seen this one but not yet in my pines...hoping it takes awhile.

So far as I know right now there are no serious disease problems facing red cedars, so keep this in mind when planning your plantings. Pretty discouraging to wait 10 years to have a screen only to have the trees start dying...

Geesh! And I thought all I had to worry about were the deer. On the upside, not all of those were fatal or neccesarily all that detrimental to a wildlife planting. Still, I could do fine without them.
Thanks for the links DT, interesting reading.