Be careful whom you call a Neanderthal. You may be one yourself. Or at least you may have Neanderthal ancestors.

That's the conclusion of a study being released today that examined DNA extracted from Neanderthal bones more than 35,000 years old.....There's little question that modern humans and Neanderthals bumped into each other once upon a time.

"The archaeological record shows they overlapped between about 30,000 and 80,000 years ago," says David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School.

There was some fossil evidence that they may have done more than shake hands in passing, but the initial genetic evidence suggested otherwise.

"And so the big open question was whether they exchanged genes during that time when they overlapped in the Middle East and in Europe," he says. .... The main strategy for finding whether modern humans and Neanderthals exchanged genes was to compare the Neanderthal DNA with DNA from modern humans — some whose ancestors had remained in Africa, and others who had migrated to Europe, Asia and the new world. If the Neanderthal DNA was more similar to the non-African DNA, it would indicate that Neanderthals contributed their genes after the first modern humans migrated out of Africa.

Reich says that's what they found.

"The non-African is more closely related to the Neanderthal," Reich says. "Quite definitely. Highly statistically significantly overwhelming evidence that they're more closely related on average to Neanderthals."

In other words, Reich and his Leipzig co-authors are totally sure that Neanderthal genes found their way into modern human when the two species intersected. They report their findings in the journal Science.

In Catholicism, there's the notion that, if humanity evolved, then the physical body evolved, while God breathed the human spirit into the evolved physical body, at some point in time. (Perhaps this God-breathed spirit-ing occurred after the supposed Neanderthal intermixing.) Is a similar idea held by many Orthodox?

« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 03:27:31 PM by Jetavan »

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Be careful whom you call a Neanderthal. You may be one yourself. Or at least you may have Neanderthal ancestors.

That's the conclusion of a study being released today that examined DNA extracted from Neanderthal bones more than 35,000 years old.....There's little question that modern humans and Neanderthals bumped into each other once upon a time.

"The archaeological record shows they overlapped between about 30,000 and 80,000 years ago," says David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School.

There was some fossil evidence that they may have done more than shake hands in passing, but the initial genetic evidence suggested otherwise.

"And so the big open question was whether they exchanged genes during that time when they overlapped in the Middle East and in Europe," he says. .... The main strategy for finding whether modern humans and Neanderthals exchanged genes was to compare the Neanderthal DNA with DNA from modern humans — some whose ancestors had remained in Africa, and others who had migrated to Europe, Asia and the new world. If the Neanderthal DNA was more similar to the non-African DNA, it would indicate that Neanderthals contributed their genes after the first modern humans migrated out of Africa.

Reich says that's what they found.

"The non-African is more closely related to the Neanderthal," Reich says. "Quite definitely. Highly statistically significantly overwhelming evidence that they're more closely related on average to Neanderthals."

In other words, Reich and his Leipzig co-authors are totally sure that Neanderthal genes found their way into modern human when the two species intersected. They report their findings in the journal Science.

In Catholicism, there's the notion that, if humanity evolved, then the physical body evolved, while God breathed the human spirit into the evolved physical body, at some point in time. (Perhaps this God-breathed spirit-ing occurred after the supposed Neanderthal intermixing.) Is a similar idea held by many Orthodox?

Very interesting story. I wounder then if perhaps Neandethals could also claim Adam and Eve as their ancestors.

I believe that the human spirit, the rational consciousness and ego which separates humanity from all other 'higher order' animals like dolphins and chimps, came into the human species as a result of evolution directly in accord with God's divine will.

I believe that the human spirit, the rational consciousness and ego which separates humanity from all other 'higher order' animals like dolphins and chimps, came into the human species as a result of evolution directly in accord with God's divine will.

How can spirit result from the physical forces of evolution? Granted, I believe in evolution, but I don't think that our souls can be the result of evolution.

Be careful whom you call a Neanderthal. You may be one yourself. Or at least you may have Neanderthal ancestors.

That's the conclusion of a study being released today that examined DNA extracted from Neanderthal bones more than 35,000 years old.....There's little question that modern humans and Neanderthals bumped into each other once upon a time.

"The archaeological record shows they overlapped between about 30,000 and 80,000 years ago," says David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School.

There was some fossil evidence that they may have done more than shake hands in passing, but the initial genetic evidence suggested otherwise.

"And so the big open question was whether they exchanged genes during that time when they overlapped in the Middle East and in Europe," he says. .... The main strategy for finding whether modern humans and Neanderthals exchanged genes was to compare the Neanderthal DNA with DNA from modern humans — some whose ancestors had remained in Africa, and others who had migrated to Europe, Asia and the new world. If the Neanderthal DNA was more similar to the non-African DNA, it would indicate that Neanderthals contributed their genes after the first modern humans migrated out of Africa.

Reich says that's what they found.

"The non-African is more closely related to the Neanderthal," Reich says. "Quite definitely. Highly statistically significantly overwhelming evidence that they're more closely related on average to Neanderthals."

In other words, Reich and his Leipzig co-authors are totally sure that Neanderthal genes found their way into modern human when the two species intersected. They report their findings in the journal Science.

In Catholicism, there's the notion that, if humanity evolved, then the physical body evolved, while God breathed the human spirit into the evolved physical body, at some point in time. (Perhaps this God-breathed spirit-ing occurred after the supposed Neanderthal intermixing.) Is a similar idea held by many Orthodox?

Not exactly. St Theophan the recluse taught that human nature was Body , Soul and Spirit. I believe that there are fathers that believe animals also have a souls but not a spirit.

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Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.

I wonder how these findings will be interpreted by the wider community with respect to race-relations, eugenics and things of that nature. I remember the fury caused by the Nobel prize winner James Watson, who argued that Africa's prospects were 'gloomy' because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."

I know that in China, the school system already teaches that Chinese people evolved separately to other ethnic groups.

It worries me to think what more sinister elements of society might do with ideas such as these at a time when fewer and fewer people attribute the equality of all people to be divinely instituted.

I wonder how these findings will be interpreted by the wider community with respect to race-relations, eugenics and things of that nature. I remember the fury caused by the Nobel prize winner James Watson, who argued that Africa's prospects were 'gloomy' because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."

I know that in China, the school system already teaches that Chinese people evolved separately to other ethnic groups.

It worries me to think what more sinister elements of society might do with ideas such as these at a time when fewer and fewer people attribute the equality of all people to be divinely instituted.

Interesting questions. Scientifically, the Neanderthals are either classified as a subspecies of man (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) or as a different species, Homo neanderthalensis.

I didn't know the Chinese engaged in such behavior. I knew that the Japanese did.

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

In the traditional view, Neanderthals differed from "us" in behavior and capabilities as well as anatomy. But were they really mentally inferior, as inexpressive and clumsy as the cartoon caveman they inspired? NOVA explores a range of intriguing new evidence for Neanderthal self-expression and language, all pointing to the fact that we may have seriously underestimated our mysterious, long-vanished human cousins.

Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

In the traditional view, Neanderthals differed from "us" in behavior and capabilities as well as anatomy. But were they really mentally inferior, as inexpressive and clumsy as the cartoon caveman they inspired? NOVA explores a range of intriguing new evidence for Neanderthal self-expression and language, all pointing to the fact that we may have seriously underestimated our mysterious, long-vanished human cousins.

Great program, I've watched it twice already! It raises some interesting points about our ancestors and hints at an answer the old question, what happened to the Neandertals? Maybe H. Sapiens didn't wipe them out; instead, H.S. "married" them!! Absorbing the Neandertals into the Sapiens line helped both lines: it gave them a future and added some 'good bits' to our DNA, improving genetic diversity. Watch it if you have a chance.