Making Sense of the 'Justice League' Film Rumor

@Lvenger said: Seriously there are good reasons for disputing this premise. Your Nolan fanboyism is laughably obvious for one. Two, it was the gritty realism that isolates Nolan's films from more comic booky films. Third, it's far from the most creatively comic book franchise as it's down to subjectivism. Fourthly, Bale's depiction of Batman was awful. More like Maguire's Spider-Man. So yeah that's destroyed your pathetic little argument as to how I can be a Batman fan and not be on board with all of Nolan's films. Nice try though but better luck next time with your awful whining

So, allow me then counselor - your 'serious' reasons for drawing doubt upon my well warranted statements amount to your four points of contention listed here along with your favorite cynic and a poorly written blog? Goodness - your honor we the defense cannot rest as the burden has been met by the state so empirically! But allow me to parlay some small points before you sentence my client to a lifetime of listening the to the prattle of the delusional;

1 If support for a Director with a proven track record of providing films which satisfy the general public and the niche market which forms its capital bearing base is to be defined as 'fanboyism' then we plead guilty though we find it funny that anyone on a comic site built for opinions on the same would use the word in a pejorative manner. ** In case this isn't clear I'm calling you ridiculous for calling anyone a 'fanboy' particularly when your icon on this site is a newly released image of none other than Superman drawn by Jim Lee.

2 That same gritty realism hasn't isolated anyone according to box office numbers nor fans of my own kin whom find it to be as true to the character as any film adaptation might aspire to accomplish. And given that I'm fairly certain I've been reading Batman longer than you've had itches in your pants - I'm not terribly concerned with your obviously less informed opinion.

3/4 If interpretation of the films by any objective means isn't your forte (READ: how much money they gross, their robust critical rating off of any web site, number of sequels etc..) then why would you make this faux pas of telling me everything is too muddied by relativist milieus AND then throwing tomatoes at Bale's acting ability? Make up your damn mind, boy.

Your two videos you posted indicate that you've established some objectively good reasons as to why the Nolan films are poor as cinematic examples of achievement - but you haven't established anything! Amazing! Instead your cynical two videos are similar to your own self-absorbed blog whereby you attempt to blast everyone else for the films not getting the creative thumbs up from you before being cast in the film - which is laughable. Are you some sort of Director in super secret disguise - managing to barely hold these forum discussions before whisking out to prevent cinematic injustice?? Sounds like a life of intrigue and danger. YOUR subjective impressions of the Bat mythos are what leave you at the altar - not everyone else's. And what's more is that you have turned a bold face lie into a self-induced reality as you REFUSE to listen to the objective indicators that this film is the best thing for the Bat mythos that could have been hoped for while being mass marketed to the general audience. So I tell you what Spielberg - next time, just go steal the script yourself and make your own film. I have money that says you don't do quite the job that industry professionals are paid to do it in.

He also took the blame for Harvey's death and others. The police came after Batman hard forcing him to retire. What followed was the Dent Act which stopped organized crime in Gotham. Blake makes a comment about the police chasing down overdue library books.

In Nolan's Gotham there was no real need for Batman before Bane showed up. Does that sound like Gotham to you? Your critique is flawed because you're under the impression that Nolan's Batman is in the DCU when it's Nolan's Batman in Nolan's Gotham and Batman mythos.

The same can be said about the short period of time that Bruce was Batman or that TDKR ends with Bruce leaving the mantle for someone else. In Nolan's universe it all makes sense and has been set up, build up and concluded. The DCU is a different matter...

Which is why I don't want to see Nolan's Batman in a Justice League movie. The two don't mix in together well. A clean slate is needed.

Still never got why he was blamed for Dent's murders. They should have blamed the Joker. It would have made more sense. Cops chasing Batman has never stopped him from operating before. And I have brought up before that even if multiverse and elseworlds version of Batman, there still has never been a version of Batman who wasn't driven to fight crime and save Gotham no matter what. Sure, there were no more supervillains and the crime rates dropped, but not even that would cause the real Batman to quit.

@sentryman555 said:

@MuyJingo: @Mr. Messy Face: You both missed the whole scene where a doctor told Wayne everything wrong with his body. And in Batman Beyond Bruce retired years before Mcguiness came. He was even reluctant to let Terry be batman.

If you remember correctly, that was after he decided to go back to being active. AFTER.

@k4tzm4n: What your'e saying makes sense given your wants - I suppose I just do not see the 'suspended disbelief' jump as insurmountable even with Bale being cast. It's a shoulder shrug I suppose as ultimately I believe as well that they'll make the smart decision.

@bloggerboy: Summarizing the movie doesn't explain it. The Dent act isn't sufficient enough reason for Batman to retire. It was a poor plot device. But it's fine, Nolan's Batman has never been Batman from the comics. That's why a clean slate is needed, to actually have a chance to see detective batman on screen.

He stopped being Batman because he turned Batman into the villain. Dent was supposed to be the hero. Batman can't be the one saving people every night. He doesn't want to do anything that would jeopardize their weapon of choice, the Dent Act.

You can see that he wants to be Batman (rebuilding the Batcave, etc). He's just doing what he believes to be the right thing, and not letting himself be Batman.

Simple. Here's the fuckin problem. They decided to finally make a JL film after TDKR? Its been planned years before and they go on this at the wrong time. Y not dictate that there's gonna b a JL movie while filming the Dark Knight so atleast they couldve changed the script. Meh this is bullshit. Trust me. The audiences who r not familiar w the comics are gonna b outraged by the sudden change of actor

Christian Bale as Batman equals money and that is what it's really all about. I think they should use Bale and Ryan Reynolds because they are who people already think of as Batman and Green Lantern. I think that reusing these actors will make the average moviegoer more likely to watch the film. It will also be better than risking a reboot on a franchise so soon after it just made a ton of money

Who cares if the movie is a financial or critical success... it only matters what we think of the movie, whether we love it or hate it ... critics are not some film geniuses there opinions shouldnt mean more to you any more or less than the other people posting here. So as a huge comic book fan, id want a new batman because, why would I want a justice league in which batman had been retired for 8 years after operating for a couple.. that would make for a 40 year old freaking batman and a 20 year old superman just getting into his superhero stature and responsibility. Now I dont dislike bale or nolan at all, so although Id like a different continuity, it wouldnt devastate me or turn me off for them to be reused (as long as they drop the realism, how do you make green lantern and martian manhunter truly grounded, its a super hero movie let them be super). The issue is, is that they are going to use an origin type film, so you may as well start from scratch and build around a "young 20-something" superman (which is what male of steal will present to us).

Nolan didn't really intended for a third but demands are demands, I believe he might've been a victim of hurry up and release it so we can make money already like Raimi was on Spider-Man 3. I will say this Bale was a decent Batman, problem was that he wasn't written as edgy and as emotionless and angry as he is in comics. Anyway on topic I think it can work and with Bale returning as Batman. Just turn "Robin" into Nightwing and bring Bale back in the cowl and say he is first hero in the DC Movieverse with Superman the second. Other than that the only other way to do this is to start the DCMverse with "Man of Steel", Reboot Batman (have timeline set to have these events happen at the same timeas MoS), Batman/Superman Movie and have the aftermath of that movie set the stage for the Justice League. That's one mistake these film make, every comic some how and some way tie into each other setting up for big events. The films don't come together to well in that sense.

Rumors and speculation, nothing more. I'm sure WB would like to include Nolan's Batman in the JL movie since he's been estabilshed already for nearly eight years now. I think it's going to be so far off now that we shouldn't even worry about it. DC and WB want to jump on the success that Marvel had with the Avengers, but it's going to be too late if they keep delaying it and scraping possible scripts!

All of these ideas are great and no doubt it does lead to speculation and discussion about what we just might see. The fact is though that Man of Steel in three months is going to be the main litmus test for what the future of this supposed Justice League project will be, so for me the rumors I think should just be kept at a minimum until we have ample reason to believe that they will come to light beyond a shadow of a doubt. I think its safe to say that if Man of Steel fails at theatres this summer that we certainly WON'T be seeing JL anytime soon. Don't get me wrong, Nolan at the helm is great, but even just a name associated with a movie won't be enough to press the advantage. No, we'll just have to see if people are going to be excited enough by this new Superman film first. I know for sure I am of course!

i want it to tie in with the 60s batman movie and show(s) or be based off of Justice League Unlimited or Batman: TAS or the Lego Batman Games, especially 2 as it has the justice league and Lex and Joker team up, i think that could be pretty awesome, using the script to make a Live Action version, sounds awesome IMO, whether that could happen or not who knows....

I agree I think a fresh start would be better. Too much times passed in the dark knight trilogy for it all to make sense in a justice league movie. I really don't like the idea of a batman in the JL, not being bruce wayne as well.

@Grey56: God you're a nasty piece of work. I've already reconciled how I can be a Batman fan and dislike Nolan so I don't need to continue with this discussion any further thankfully. Your arrogance is repellent and your holier than thou attitude annoying. Glad I know when to stop talking with people like you

@RedheadedAtrocitus: Thanks. You know, I actually agree that we should overlook these rumors and such, but that's how the game is. If we don't cover these big scoops, other sites will and we'll lose that traffic. :( Even if they do turn out to be false, at least they're fun to speculate in the meantime, right?

@Lvenger Goodness, you really have been in the Bunker for quite some time now - else how would one explain an inability to cope with differing opinions or worse yet empirical fact. Be sure to strap your Kevlar on tight because you may be in for a bumpy ride now that you've emerged from the Red scare to a wily 21st century.

Here's the thing though; you haven't reconciled anything save your own inability to acknowledge someone challenging your world view. Its obvious now that you don't really wish to discuss anything. Instead the internet has made thee powerful....so long as no one subject defies thy will.

Also, try and recall while you're clutching the pearls whom was the first to drop the name calling gauntlet. If it doesn't offend your sensibilities too much, try to reread my prior entries to find where I did that. You wont - because you're too busy covering your inability to defend your ideas with veiled umbrage.

Lastly, if you did know any better than to discuss these things with a cur like me you would've not responded at all or had a better response than your proverbial taking my ball and going home approach. Instead you're trying to publicly save face or worse - get engaged in a last word battle. Let me summarize thusly; your opinions are poor and ill informed and your ability to defend them worse.

Feel free to come back now and either get your last word in or quip the anecdotal equivalent of "No, you are!".

@k4tzm4n: Absolutely, Katz! I couldn't agree more. Personally for me I'm really hoping MoS in June does pass the litmus test and we see Justice League as an eventual aftermath, because then the rumors will get curiouser and curiouser. I'm probably of the minority who holds out hope that it will be good when everyone else I know is rooting for Iron Man 3 instead. Go figure!

Nolan isn't a bad director at all, I think it'd be cool if he returned for Justice League.

He's an exceptional director (though I do think he's lacking when it comes to action sequences). That said, this rumor isn't implying he would direct the films. Instead, he would produce and be more of a creative consultant for WB's DC properties.

@RedheadedAtrocitus said:

@k4tzm4n: Absolutely, Katz! I couldn't agree more. Personally for me I'm really hoping MoS in June does pass the litmus test and we see Justice League as an eventual aftermath, because then the rumors will get curiouser and curiouser. I'm probably of the minority who holds out hope that it will be good when everyone else I know is rooting for Iron Man 3 instead. Go figure!

Absolutely. Man of Steel is without question my most anticipated movie this year. I really hope it shatters the box office and motivates WB to bring their A game with Justice League.

@Grey56 said:

@k4tzm4n Katz, you just earned a follow my good sir. Allow me to publicly thank you foe engaging in meaningful discourse without it degenerating into name calling.

Since the Green Lantern movie flop, it would be wise for Warner brothers to go with tested talent like Nolan. If Nolan can repeat his magic touch with Superman, I am sure Warner Brothers would want Nolan to do Justice League also. I am ok with Christian Bale doing Batman in Justice League whether the Justice League Batman will be a reboot or not. It is possible to set the Justice League movies in between the Batman movies if desired but I don't think it is necessary.

@xoptionm3: What you are saying is logical if the film is portrayed as it being their 'Brave & The Bold 28' moment. I have no bones with this as a premise per se - though I will warn again that a film becoming a commercial and critical success is extremely important to those of us whom enjoy the hobby.

You may or may not know it but if you recall even the humorous anecdote from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - film studios began to buy up comic properties after the box office success of the first X film. That translated into an industry explosion which has paved the way for all manner of flowering for those of us whom enjoy the medium. The broad commercial and critical success of these properties is good for all of us and I would heavily recommend support of it.

I myself will enjoy films which are well done - but I do not make pretense that they are being made for me. Nor are any of these near-public- properties which the masses enjoys. They should be marketed to the point where fans of all types can enjoy them - part of that is knowing what will be successful in investing 70 + million for a film. Not hating on your idea - just clarifying.

I loved the Nolan films and I do believe they should stay seperate from the canon of DC, I'm ready for a new Batman story, with Robin already in the mix.. possible Tim Drake because my fanboy brain already wants Nightwing and Red Hood around.

So... because this movie portrays a man doing unrealistic things in a realistic setting, suddenly that means having flying aliens and magic lassos is ok?

I clearly stated I would prefer a fresh start because it's slightly jarring to think of Bale performing more "comic booky" feats if/when JL comes around, but seeing as Justice League probably won't be directed by Nolan, his actions wouldn't be that tough to swallow seeing as the tone of the film wouldn't be "realistic."

@AmazingWebHead said:

My point exactly! A universe where Bane's mask gives him painkillers instead of steroids is way too realistic for the Justice League.

First thing is if they do have a justice league movie... the only people they need are wonder woman, batman, and superman... the others come along later. so it wouldnt mater where everyone else was. it was stated in the movie Dark Knight Rises the bomb was in a led lined truck so even if superman was of age he wouldnt have attempted stopping the truck for if he got the wrong one, the real one might have been set off. And it is easy to say Wonder Woman was on her Island.

As far as the return of batman.... Heck he gets bored. Just like Dark Knight returns.... ghosts of the past thing. this will be amazing of a movie.

I don't think Nolan is as involved as it has been involved. I think he will control creative tone, but not content. Putting Snyder at the helm of MOS was probably a great choice and I think he could crush it on a JL movie as well. Use MOS as a way to launch a DC cinematic universe and do a reverse marvel with solo films. Also Bale should probably hang up the cowl. Armie Hammer should be the next Batman, a younger bruce would fit the tone better,

Merging the universe of the Nolan movies into the Justice League movie would be infinitely worse than the previous worst idea ever. I am confident that such an atrocity will not occur for I believe people are smarter than to attempt this. Then again, people have done some pretty stupid things before, like reinventing the entire DC Universe in The New 52 and canceling the YJ cartoon among others.

To address the Nolan movies. The first two were fine. The third and final movie, however, I feel was a total letdown, and I'll tell you why. That movie was not a Batman movie. It was some other kind of movie that was not about Batman. When I go to a movie that is supposedly about Batman, I want to see a movie about Batman, not what they turned it into. Also, I always had a problem with some aspects of these movies that differed from more classic interpretations of the characters. For example in TDK, you can clearly see that the Joker wears face paint. In the comics his skin and hair actually are chalk-white and green respectively.

Also in order for a JL movie to work, all movies that came before it that exist in the same universe have to be meant to be spun into the Justice League movie. Marvel very clearly intended for Iron Man, Thor, and the rest to spin into the Avengers. That's how it worked. The Dark Knight trilogy was meant to stand alone and therefore would not work as part of the JL universe. Man of Steel has not yet come out. If, if, and only if. it meets certain criteria that would allow it to spin into the Justice League movie, should that happen. The Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern film meets enough of these criteria perhaps. And contrary to popular opinion, it wasn't half bad. Though since it didn't do too well in the public's eyes, I'd understand if WB recasted.

If the original lineup of the movie League consists of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, the Flash, Green Lantern, and the Martian Manhunter, most of these characters should first get their own movie which would tie into the League. Of course MM probably won't get his own movie. It's okay to introduce one or two characters in the League movie, but the majority of them you want to have already established.

As for Batman, I have no beef with Bale in the movies he's already done, though I do abhor whoever ruined the trilogy with the story of the last one. However, the same Batman should not appear in a new series and if you do have a different Batman, you absolutely should have someone new play him. Who? I don't know. But i'm sure they can find someone. Hopefully someone who doesn't do the Batman voice like Bale did, but more like Kevin Conroy did in JLU and that stuff.

As for topping Avengers, it shouldn't be too hard. Though Avengers was really good, they didn't pick the right characters to make it as epic as it could be. I'm talking about Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawkeye. They obviously picked the Hulk because of his popularity. They probably just randomly picked Black Widow out of all their female characters to add one female character. Hawkeye is a classic Avenger so he was a better choice, but what's with this obsession with making him an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. instead of sticking with his original origin in the circus? Anyway if Marvel had picked more epic characters, they would have had an even more epic movie. All DC has to do is pick the right characters to make their movie epic.

And the villain. The Justice League has a myriad of powerful villains to go up against. I'd just say stay away from characters that were used in the movies leading up to it. And don't do Darkseid because we've just seen a new origin of the League involving Darkseid in the New 52 comic.. How about Despero, Dr. Destiny, Starro, the Appelaxians, or any other good villain.