Except 3 consecutive driver and constructor titles. As for bending the rules, no one who conforms wins anything.

And they've done that with Renault engines, a sister "assistant" team on the grid, and some of the best engineers in F1 who joined them from other teams, Newey included. I mean, what have Red Bull brought to the motorsport world besides money to buy success?

Now for example if the VAG group joined F1 with their own engines and their own engineers, if they brought new and innovative stuff and won, now THAT would be something to applaud.

Except 3 consecutive driver and constructor titles. As for bending the rules, no one who conforms wins anything.

And they've done that with Renault engines, a sister "assistant" team on the grid, and some of the best engineers in F1 who joined them from other teams, Newey included. I mean, what have Red Bull brought to the motorsport world besides money to buy success?

Now for example if the VAG group joined F1 with their own engines and their own engineers, if they brought new and innovative stuff and won, now THAT would be something to applaud.

VAG are losers. They only know how to keep F1 rumors alive. On the other hand Red Bull achieved something in F1.

RacingFan1 wrote:

At least Ferrari/McLaren/Mercedes have a long motorsport history and a great tradition.

Nothing to admire or applaud about the Red Bull team in my opinion. A company build based on marketing and extremely overpriced energy drinks.

Well, to be fair the fact that they have been able to do what they have done based on selling energy drinks is an amazing feat and Mateschitz is a genious no doubt.

McLaren was sponsored by tobacco company until they started making cars and went into close partnership with Mercedes. Mercedes have long history with some success, but they had many low moments too. Most recently Le Mans car flipping. Mercedes performance wise is nowhere near Red Bull.

_________________Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.Mark Twain

Pretty interesting, but I found it sort of distracting the way they had to look up at the big screen to see the picture that they were being asked to comment on. It made it seem like they were trying really hard to think of what the right thing to say was, but in reality they were just looking up to see what they were being asked about.

Nice film and thanks for posting that (wouldn't have seen it otherwise)

Not a particular RB fan but sometimes it’s good to step back and ignore the general bitterness and realise it’s a bunch of decent folk doing (and achieving) their absolute best regardless of who you support. They are not enemies’ just competitors.

Nice film and thanks for posting that (wouldn't have seen it otherwise)

Not a particular RB fan but sometimes it’s good to step back and ignore the general bitterness and realise it’s a bunch of decent folk doing (and achieving) their absolute best regardless of who you support. They are not enemies’ just competitors.

Nice film and thanks for posting that (wouldn't have seen it otherwise)

Not a particular RB fan but sometimes it’s good to step back and ignore the general bitterness and realise it’s a bunch of decent folk doing (and achieving) their absolute best regardless of who you support. They are not enemies’ just competitors.

It doesn't cost six figures to produce Ferrari road cars. And value is whatever price someone is willing to pay for something. Red Bull sold just over four and a half BILLION cans in 2011. Evidently a lot of people think the price is worth it.

Why does it matter that Red Bull sells energy drinks? They could be a bunch of janitors for all I care. The point is, they've done brilliantly well. And their recipe for success is simple. Teamwork, focus and the belief that obstacles and set backs do not equate failure. The Red Bull team clearly do not need social approval or frenzied fans to drive home the point.

And the RBR garage rocks - don't forget that, it is the outstanding factor on a race weekend.

Anyway, now that they are "Infiniti Red Bull Racing" with a deal with a car manufacturer that goes beyond sponsorship, those energy drink jabs might have to take a step back. How are the alternators Infiniti uses in its cars? That might be an ideal starting place...

The criticism of Red Bull F1 because of their funding from the part of the company that produces drinks is ridiculous. They want to win just as much as the others, have no less passion than the others and have just as much right to respect as the others.

I remember a team that won the world championship and many races and doesn't receive the same bitterness as Red Bull now. They were "just" a textile company called Benetton.

Red Bull don't have as much history as the other teams because they aren't even 10 years old. Some naysayers talk of Williams having history, but back in the day, Sir Frank was derided in the paddock for the first few years by all but Ken Tyrrell until 1977. The same naysayers who slate Red Bull now and praise Williams would have been calling for Williams to get out of F1 back then. They had no long tradition in motorsport compared to Ferrari at the time, the same long tradition which is being used to undermine Red Bull F1's achievements now.

RacingFan1, it is not credible for you to laud the achievements of major car firms, and their resources and superior experience in the automotive field and then criticise the achievements of others who arrived later with money, as buying success. The resources of Ferrari and McLaren were built with money too. Money alone does not buy success, it is a great compliment to what Red Bull have achieved that they have made it look that easy. Give Honda and Toyota a call and see how they feel about that money buying success.

I haven't seen you banging the drum for an end to sponsorship driven F1 or a budget cap, so it does seem very curious indeed for you to harp on about Red Bull buying success.

_________________"Jean Alesi is using the Maginot Line policy-You shall not pass!"-Murray Walker

VAG are losers. They only know how to keep F1 rumors alive. On the other hand Red Bull achieved something in F1.

VAG is now #2 car group in the world and they will probably catch Toyota. Yeah, such huge losers

Sure, but we are talking about F1 and VAG achieved nothing, even if you include Porsche. They were outspoken about mistakes that BMW made etc, but they never built an F1. BMW won race and built race and championship winning engines. Toyota created their own team and run it for many seasons.

RacingFan1 wrote:

Now for example if the VAG group joined F1 with their own engines and their own engineers, if they brought new and innovative stuff and won, now THAT would be something to applaud.

Why does it matter that Red Bull sells energy drinks? They could be a bunch of janitors for all I care. The point is, they've done brilliantly well. And their recipe for success is simple. Teamwork, focus and the belief that obstacles and set backs do not equate failure. The Red Bull team clearly do not need social approval or frenzied fans to drive home the point.

Except 3 consecutive driver and constructor titles. As for bending the rules, no one who conforms wins anything.

And they've done that with Renault engines, a sister "assistant" team on the grid, and some of the best engineers in F1 who joined them from other teams, Newey included. I mean, what have Red Bull brought to the motorsport world besides money to buy success?

Now for example if the VAG group joined F1 with their own engines and their own engineers, if they brought new and innovative stuff and won, now THAT would be something to applaud.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. In ANY sport, taking the best opportunities available to you that gives you the biggest chances of success are always going to be important. By what you are saying there, this means large football clubs, Man Utd, Chelsea etc are not to be applauded for their successes because not all of their players are from Manchester, they are bought from other clubs around the world who they see are great players. It's ridiculous, in sport you do all you can to gather the best possible resources that gives you the best chance to win..you can not not applaud or congratulate a team just because they don't have home grown engineers or engines.