Ride in Ca. With No Drivers License ???

Well in regards to what I have found to be A VERY GREY AREA at times -- depending on the person we ask and which dept. we go to... I have had aprox. 8 persons tell me that I can not ride in Ca. without a drivers license -- but -- have found two who say that it is legal... with some research if this is what you are looking for -- as I was --- seek and you should find. Some will not agree with this finding -- I understand.. Have a blessed day from - Mountainman

Can you ride your bicycle without a license?
Well.... then... hide your engine!
But seriously,not one cop has even stopped me but that varies from state to state.
But in my own experience,follow the rules,don't be a super star,and wave at the cops like you have a license.
And as a legal note: What I typed above does not in any way make me responsible for MountainMan's expenses in the event of confrontation with the law. :grin:

Large Filipino --- I hear you LOUD AND CLEAR -- as always -- if something comes down -- busted -- on our own --- DON'T DO THE CRIME IF WE CAN'T DO THE TIME... Sounds so simple.. But - has proven in the past NOT TO BE !!! Something this old Mountainman needs to constantly remember !!!! Happy Riding - from Mountainman

Ok, i was going to post a new thread but my question kinda fits within this... ok so supposedly you need an M2 license in CA. So one of the requirements for the M2 is a 'skills' test. So there's all the stops & turns, and positioning in traffic.

ok since we're 'bicycles' and ride in the bike lanes, are they gonna have bike lanes in the test?? I mean I dont think we should have to ride in the 'street areas' because thats not how I'm going to ride when I'm actually on the road.

Basically I think it's kinda stupid that you need a license to drive a bicycle - yes it has a motor but you're still riding like a bicycle. not a moped.

so i'm really trying to remember what mike said ' dont ask questions, just get the M2 & be done with it.' so thats what I'm trying to do. I'm just curious how the 'skills test is going to go when show up with a whizzer for the actual test. ah, we'll see how it goes, I'll def post my experience about it.

At this time I have two letters from two separate law enforcement agencies in Calif. that state that anyone over the age of 16 can ride a gas motorized bicycle with less than 2 horsepower with no drivers license.. It took some digging -- research -- but, in my case it was worth the time... Happy Riding from Mountainman

Mountainman..is there any way to PDF those letters and post them here? It would be useful to others in California to assist convincing local police of the legality of having a "motorized bicycle". Also THANK you for digging into this really grey area. we look at this as being under the requirements on page 3 (actually page 7) of the 2008 California motorcycle hand book ( http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl655/dl665mcycle.pdf ) which states

There are two definitions of motorized bicycle (moped). A motorized bicycle is:
• A two- or three-wheeled device, capable of no more than 30 mph on level ground, and equipped with:
-
fully operative pedals for human propulsion.
an internal combustion engine producing less than two gross brake horse-
power and an automatic transmission.
an electric motor, with or without pedals for human propulsion. (VC Sec.406[a])
If you operate a motorized bicycle which meets the definition of
VC Sec.406, you:
• Must be 16 years of age or older.
• Must wear a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet.
• Are exempt from the motor vehicle financial responsibility, driver license, and moped plate requirements (VC Sec.12804.9).
You may ride a moped in a bicycle lane at a reasonable speed. Be careful of bicyclists using the lane.

we have this page printed out and will be giving them to others in the area.

Mountainman..is there any way to PDF those letters and post them here? It would be useful to others in California to assist convincing local police of the legality of having a "motorized bicycle". Also THANK you for digging into this really grey area.

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Hi Mike -- at this time -- there is a problem with the sharing of the information -- as follows -- I have lost my drivers license for one year.. My motorbike will be my only means of transportation.. When I was looking into this issue -- went to many sites -- some phone calls -- such as DMV -- once DMV told me it was legal to ride a small gas 1.6 hp without a license -- same question to DMV the next day -- they said no !!! Same question - two answers !!! Yes, I have found two law enforcement agencies that have stated NO DRIVERS LICENSE REQUIRED to ride a gas motorized bicycle (under 2 hp) at 20 mph... But - and here is the problem - if at this time I share their names -- I think they may get hundreds of calls -- could cause them to re-consider what they have stated to me -- them I am out of luck ! After the return of my license -- for sure I will share the information.. I hope that you all understand my situation --- Mountainman

If someone truly wants the information -- they should be able to find it as I did.. I am super slow in regards to computers and on a very slow phone line -- but still it was found... It is easy to judge -- but -- unless I have been in the exact situation -- maybe I should not.. Happy Biking from Mountainman

Mountainman..is there any way to PDF those letters and post them here? It would be useful to others in California to assist convincing local police of the legality of having a "motorized bicycle". Also THANK you for digging into this really grey area. we look at this as being under the requirements on page 3 (actually page 7) of the 2008 California motorcycle hand book ( http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl655/dl665mcycle.pdf ) which states

There are two definitions of motorized bicycle (moped). A motorized bicycle is:
- A two- or three-wheeled device, capable of no more than 30 mph on level ground, and equipped with:
-
fully operative pedals for human propulsion.
an internal combustion engine producing less than two gross brake horse-
power and an automatic transmission.
an electric motor, with or without pedals for human propulsion. (VC Sec.406[a])
If you operate a motorized bicycle which meets the definition of
VC Sec.406, you:
- Must be 16 years of age or older.
- Must wear a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet.
- Are exempt from the motor vehicle financial responsibility, driver license, and moped plate requirements (VC Sec.12804.9).
You may ride a moped in a bicycle lane at a reasonable speed. Be careful of bicyclists using the lane.

we have this page printed out and will be giving them to others in the area.

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MikeB1 -- as you have listed above - some things I have noted. 406a max speed listed is 30mph --- 406b max speed is 20 mph --- in the Calif. motorcycle handbook 2007 it states that 406b requires no drivers license but doesn't address the issue of license in regards to 406a ??? THIS SEEMS TO BE ONE BIG GREY AREA !!! -- question I think would be -- if I have a gas motorized bicycle which goes approx. 20 mph do I need a license ? Here's the thing - even if my point brought out here is correct - how many will REALLY want to travel at 20 mph - just so they do not need a license ? Happy Riding from Mountainman

Man. The way I see it to a cop your not DRIVING A 2 TON TRUCK on a suspended license.
You are riding a BICYCLE with a SMALL ENGINE that can get you to point B without suffering from a heart attack.
So to most cops,I think you are doing yourself and everyone around you a service. I wouldn't sweat too much about this. A cop that will pull you over and write you a ticket on just the no license alone and nothing else is not a good cop.

But - and here is the problem - if at this time I share their names -- I think they may get hundreds of calls -- could cause them to re-consider what they have stated to me -- them I am out of luck !

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So what? They're public servants, let them serve the public!

It either is the law or isn't. Ideally a judge would set a legal precedent, not a DMV employee, in the case where a law is somewhat vague, outdated, or self-contradictory. However if a DMV employee offers you an opinion on paper, especially quoting specific law chapters, that is within a hair of being legally binding.

If the DMV is responsible for turning legalese into convenient public education handbooks, their obscurity in doing this properly can and should translate into them being hounded for clarifications.

A cop that will pull you over and write you a ticket on just the no license alone and nothing else is not a good cop.

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I showed my instructor - who was a cop for many years in Sacramento & is going to be again soon - my motorbike & asked him what the consequences would be if I were to be caught riding the whizzer without the M2 - he said that they would impound it. He said he personally would not pull someone over that was riding one, but he did say there are cops that will.

so i'm waiting for my plates & my contact lens so I can take the M2.

its so difficult with it being so warm - just looking at those motorbikes waiting to take a spin. Some trips it would do me no good, like this morning I had to get dog food. my bike easily handles a 44lb bag of dog food, but there's no way the whizzer could've handled it ( with out a trailer or a luggage rack anyways).

It either is the law or isn't. Ideally a judge would set a legal precedent, not a DMV employee, in the case where a law is somewhat vague, outdated, or self-contradictory. However if a DMV employee offers you an opinion on paper, especially quoting specific law chapters, that is within a hair of being legally binding.

If the DMV is responsible for turning legalese into convenient public education handbooks, their obscurity in doing this properly can and should translate into them being hounded for clarifications.

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Eljefino -- I know a few things in regards to our laws and public servants --- I just happened to notice your age 32 --- that is exactly how many years I worked as a public servant for The City of San Diego before retiring a couple of years back... I have also been involved with politics -- spent 7 years repersenting my neighborhood up against a giant, money hungery, rich group of ones whose word means nothing -- my payment from funds received on our side 0 ... Have you heard of Duncan Hunter -- ran for president of the United States of America --- I know him and many other PUBLIC SERVANTS VERY WELL ... Happy Riding from Mountainman

EITHER SHARE THE NAMES AND INFO ABOUT THE LAW OR JUST SHUT UP? WHO CARES IF YOU WERE OR WERE NOT A PUBLIC SERVANT? wHAT DOES BIENG 32 HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? sOUNDS LIKE YOU JUST LIKE TO HEAR YOURSELF WRITING **** ON THESE THREADS. HOW ABOUT GIVING OUT THE USEFUL INFORMATION AND KEEPING YOUR POLITICAL BULL**** AT HOME WHERE IT BELONGS. PEOPLE NEED THIS INFORMATION AND ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS WORRY HOW IT MAY OR MAY NOT AFFECT YOU. IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED WHY DID YOU EVEN MENTION IT?

There is a saying, "let sleeping dogs sleep",
When I posted "clever move", mountain, get the hint, obviously you don't.
Just ride ya bike, act normal, have fun, enjoy life, look for meanigfull solutions, even the cops have families, are on salaries, eat at maccas, use toilet paper same as you, and are annoyed at the price of fuel to, and are limited by what they can do on the weekends with thier families, same as the rest of us due to the price of fuel,taxes, mortgages and credit cards.

If you want to make a point of anything, check out the news, the Arabs will not increase oil production.

There is a saying, "let sleeping dogs sleep",
When I posted "clever move", mountain, get the hint, obviously you don't.
Just ride ya bike, act normal, have fun, enjoy life, look for meanigfull solutions, even the cops have families, are on salaries, eat at maccas, use toilet paper same as you, and are annoyed at the price of fuel to, and are limited by what they can do on the weekends with thier families, same as the rest of us due to the price of fuel,taxes, mortgages and credit cards.

If you want to make a point of anything, check out the news, the Arabs will not increase oil production.

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To: BoltsMissing --- you are right "let sleeping dogs sleep" I know that I have only been on this site a few days now --- like many --- seeing what I could learn while waiting for my motor to come in --- I learned a lot thanks to many and much GOOD INFORMATION on this site... Well - my motor came in today --- just took a few test rides --- it is a blast !!! Tomorrow I plan on a long ride down in the city --- as you say --- Just ride ya bike, act normal and have fun ect... GOOD ADVICE !!! Happy riding from - Mountainman