Posted
by
BeauHDon Friday August 11, 2017 @09:00AM
from the acoustic-attack dept.

bsharma shares a report from The Boston Globe: The two-year-old U.S. diplomatic relationship with Cuba was roiled Wednesday by what U.S. officials say was a string of bizarre incidents that left a group of American diplomats in Havana with severe hearing loss attributed to a covert sonic device. In the fall of 2016, a series of U.S. diplomats began suffering unexplained losses of hearing, according to officials with knowledge of the investigation into the case. Several of the diplomats were recent arrivals at the embassy, which reopened in 2015 as part of former President Barack Obama's reestablishment of diplomatic relations with Cuba. Some of the diplomats' symptoms were so severe that they were forced to cancel their tours early and return to the United States, officials said. After months of investigation, U.S. officials concluded that the diplomats had been exposed to an advanced device that operated outside the range of audible sound and had been deployed either inside or outside their residences. It was not immediately clear if the device was a weapon used in a deliberate attack, or had some other purpose.

Immunity and protection are the precepts of diplomatic law. Without them there are no diplomatic relations. Time to take our ball and go home.

Have to say I disagree. Cuba is one of our closest neighbors; it is to both our benefits that we have a positive relationship. Besides, do you honestly believe that we haven't conducted espionage on Cuban diplomats?

We were listening in on Angela Merkel's telephone calls for chips sake, Spying on the chancellor, the leader of the free world. If we're spying on such an important ally, I'm sure we've been spying on Cuban diplomats. We've been spying on everyone.

using a focused sound/energy device to make someone deaf is totally the same-thing as listening to voice mails lol

There is no indication that this was a deliberate attack. Spying on diplomats and missions is always part of the game of international relations, especially between nation-states that do not have the best relations. Whatever caused this could easily have been a side effect of a covert listening device or technique and an unintended consequence.

During the cold war, the US Embassy in Moscow was given a wooden version of the Great Seal of the United States by local school children. What they didn't know is that it contained a covert listening device, which consisted of a passive resonant cavity. It worked by having the KGB transmit microwave energy from across the street, which would resonate in the bit of metal, and re-radiated. (more info here [wikipedia.org].

A Canadian diplomat and family were also affected by the same thing, the chances of it being a deliberate attack is relatively low as Canada has had good relations with Cuba for pretty much all of its modern history.

The thread I replied to suggested (at a minimum) cutting diplomatic contact. Presumably that would mean reinstating sanctions, which cause extensive harm to ordinary people. Other posters suggested lots of things up to "nuke 'em."

So what's your position on three wrongs?

The US plays diplomatic hardball when it suits them. Maybe Cuba did something bad here, maybe not; the story has a lot of holes. Even if they did, perhaps we should agree that even if nations can't be nice to each other's diplomats they s

It may not even have been the Cuban government that did it, if it was intentional. It could have been a third party, or a faction within the government that doesn't want relations to go well. A false flag attack.
Or it may not have even been intended to do damage. It might have been some tricksy way they came up with to exfiltrate data, that had unintended effects.

Diplomatic relations are based on reciprocity. Germany would be well within their rights to reciprocate by halting intelligence-sharing activities with the US. If a specifically appropriate reciprocal response is unavailable (for instance, if there were no intelligence-sharing to halt), a well-honored tradition in diplomatic relations is to expel diplomats (as Russia did recently in response to US sanctions). Reciprocity is what makes bilateral relations work.

Citation needed. The apparent attack happened in Cuba, it does not follow that it was perpetrated by the Cuban authorities, any more then an attack on a diplomat on US soil is assumed to be caused by the CIA. It might be, but at this point it appears to be he-said, she-said.

It's also not known whether this was actually an attack or a side effect of other activities. A Canadian diplomat and family were also affected, and Cuba has a long history of relatively good relations with Canada.

Your argument makes no sense. The fact that both US and Canadian diplomats were affected makes it less likely that this was done by Cuban authorities as Cuba and Canada (as has already been pointed out) have good relations. Canada may have been collateral damage. Or the same third-party may have targeted both countries. Is it possible that this could be a malfunctioning eavesdropping device? Who knows!

Yeah, listening in on phone calls and permanently damaging diplomats is exactly the same thing.

Mother of false equivalence.

#1 theory is that this was caused BY listening in. Not that they deliberately made the diplomats deaf. In all likelihood, no matter who is responsible, Cubans, Russians, whoever... they probably didn't know they were damaging the diplomats hearing.

We might want to determine who was behind the attack first, rather than simply assuming it was the Cuban government. For one thing, I can't imagine what motive the Cuban government would have for attacking American diplomats at a time when Cuba is trying to normalize relations with the USA. (I can imagine other parties wanting to sabotage that relationship, though)

We might want to determine who was behind the attack first, rather than simply assuming it was the Cuban government. For one thing, I can't imagine what motive the Cuban government would have for attacking American diplomats at a time when Cuba is trying to normalize relations with the USA. (I can imagine other parties wanting to sabotage that relationship, though)

Yep. It would definitely be in Russia's interests to perpetrate this and it fits with their disregard of health damages to those they view as their enemies. Russia would love to re-establish military bases in Cuba and Cuba has resisted this so far, despite Trump's attempts to make them as angry as possible, in the hopes of improving relations with the USA. A bunch of misdirected anger at Cuba while the Russians laugh in the background totally seems plausible. I'd put the Canadian problems as collateral

Agreed, this seems to be a ruse for relations to revert back to where they were. One would think that the Cuban government would want this investigated as well. It is in both our countries interests that we normalize and keep the relations on a good standing instead of outright accusing them of foul play.

Cubans are known for their DIY, improvised repairs that has kept together their infrastructure even during decades of economic hardship and an embargo. Could this just be a poorly done local electronic repair job on a power transformer, for example? The locals may well be suffering from the same issue health issues, but given the communist mindset, no one had the courage to complain. I'd wager more on poorly done electronic repair job than cloak and dagger spy tricks.

Doesn't the State Department do security scans of our embassies and diplomatic residences for hazards if any kind, intentional or otherwise? Being posted to a location with plague rats would be just as big a problem.

Probably rolling out continuous monitoring equipment as we speak to embassies around the world - if they're on their game they had the equipment in-place before they published this story; it would take about an hour to rig up a device like this from a 555 timer, couple of resistors and capacitors, a power transistor or two, and a big horn tweeter - surely there are copycats around the world doing just that right now with intent to deafen whomever it is t

While I'm sure they do, high volume sounds outside of the audible frequency range probably wasn't one of the things that are swept for. All in all this makes very little sense to be done intentionally, as there's literally nothing to gain from it. I'd go with what others are suggesting - that this is probably caused by some poorly maintained or malfunctioning piece of equipment.

There are millions and millions of transformers all over the world, in countries far poorer than Cuba, and they have been in use over the course of a hundred years. If this was remotely realistic (a transformer going bad or being repaired in such a way that it could cause subaudible soundwaves that damage hearing but in such a subtle way that no one notices it happening) then it would have been encountered many times before. Think of it - any time you would have an entire family of people going deaf at the same time, there would be extensive investigation into the cause, even in a third world country. If anything it would at least make the news, even if the cause was not found.

FWIW, in grad school I worked with sonars which emitted in the 12-35 kHz frequency range. I wasn't exposed to them regularly, but I did get blasted a few dozen times (very annoying when it's in the audible range). Because they're designed to operate underwater, the transducers pack a lot more energy than speakers designed for the air (water being 800x denser than air).

By the time I was 35 my hearing above 11 kHz was pretty much gone. On those hearing tests, I rated among 60- and 70-year olds. And no I didn't listen to loud music as a kid. I actually hated rock concerts because of how loud they were, and only went to one in my life (part of a school rally). The loss seems to have stabilized. I'm 48 now and I'm still able to hear 11 kHz, but not above.

I didn't notice it happening, and it happened pretty rapidly (within a few years). Because of the relatively few incidents of exposure and short durations (single pings - this was in the days before CHIRP sonars), I've wondered if the cause wasn't the sonars, but rather some electronic device. Say, a component in a computer I used all the time, constantly exposing me to high frequency noise just outside my hearing range for hours every day. I do suffer tinnitus, though oddly it doesn't bother me as it's in the frequencies I've lost so doesn't interfere with hearing "real" sounds.

Agree... It is easy to make noise but HARD to deliver high enough sound pressure to be a concern at high frequencies -- the higher frequency you go. It is possible, But it is going to require special design for the apparatus to not quickly break down and is thus not going to happen accidentally just from a defect in a standard transformer.

I believe that to induce ultrasound that damages hearing, you would need a frequency generator and pretty powerful transducer or amplified speaker that could reproduce that ultrasound frequency at those damaging levels. I'm pretty sure that a misaligned fly-back transformer for example, can't do that.

I think it is very doubtful it was the Cuban government. They want money from the USA, in the form of tourism, the ability for people in the USA to send money back home to family in Cuba, etc. Obama already set all that in motion and gave it to them for free (IE without any worthwhile conditions or concessions from the Cuban government). The Castros should be tickled pink with the state of things - they still have full control, yet are now getting some respect and official acknowledgement from the superpower next door, and money, goods and services are beginning to flow into their country.

So it makes absolutely no sense for them to do something as petty as this - injuring diplomats from the USA for no good reason whatsoever, with the only possible result being harm to relations between the two countries. If the Cuban government didn't want these diplomats there, they would simply tell them to leave - it is a dictatorship after all.

IMO this is the action of some other government, with sophisticated technology and deep covert capability, doing this because it is in their best interest for Cuba and the USA to not have good relations. I'll leave the exercise of figuring out who those players could be to you.

>Surely nobody honestly thinks that the Cuban government isnt paranoid as fuck about American ambassadors

I can see being paranoid about American intentions (Americans have traditionally seen Cuba as a resource to exploit which is why the revolution had so much backing to start with...), but I can see no benefit to deafening the ambassadors.

It almost certainly has to be some kind of surveillance or counter-surveillance accident of technology, though I suppose there could be an audio engineer out there wit

You're spot on.
It's a counter-surveillance device that's used by both the Americans and the Canadians. It emits inaudible soundwaves at varying frequencies in a spread spectrum mode so that it can not be detected by integrative sound pressure detectors. It works by vibrating the air so violently that the objects that are targeted by a laser surveillance device, e.g.: windows, tile areas, are vibrating with an amplitude so much larger than would have resulted from a normal conversation, or even a shouting w

Yes, you do have a excellent point. There are surveillance devices called laser microphones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone) which reflect a laser beam off of some object acting like a diaphragm (such as a window) which vibrates as sound waves strike it. By measuring changes in the reflected beam, the audio can then be decoded. So it is entirely possible there is a counter device which emits subsonic sound waves that cause windows, etc, to vibrate constantly to cover and conceal the audio

Regarding the laser microphone:If this device emits in the inaudible part of the spectrum, how can it jam speech ?The most obvious counter-counter-measure, would be to clean the sound spectrum from the laser, amplifying the frequencies mostly found in human voice, and masking frequencies out of this frequency-band (thus masking all frequencies beyond hearing range but still somewhat picked up by the mic).

How the hell is hearing loss possible with a out-of-spectrum noise ?By definition sound outside the audible spectrum is sound outside the frequency response of the human auditory system.

"Sound" is changes in pressure through a medium (in this case, air). Our ears interpret a constant stream of these pressure changes (IE waves of them) within a certain frequency range as sound we can hear. So the pressure changes must occur within some frequency to be heard, and the intensity of the pressure change determines how "loud" the sound is. So what if you have pressure waves at, say, 20 hertz, that are very intense? We don't perceive it as sound (because our ears "filter" it out and don't care a

Regarding the laser microphone : If this device emits in the inaudible
part of the spectrum, how can it jam speech ? The most obvious
counter-counter-measure, would be to clean the sound spectrum from the
laser, amplifying the frequencies mostly found in human voice, and
masking frequencies out of this frequency-band (thus masking all
frequencies beyond hearing range but still somewhat picked up by the
mic).

I don't know much about this stuff, but maybe the window vibration is
non-linear and can create

I think 96khz was motivated by filter design, but 192khz was primarily to minimize bit jitter with realtime digital mixing (even with a shared clock source, it's *really hard* to get multiple sources outputting serial bitstreams to have every single bit line up *precisely* in realtime (ie, no buffering to add latency). 192khz gives more headroom to tolerate slightly-sloppy timing.

The hearing damage occurred at the Diplomat's homes (as it affected families/children as well), and also happened to a Canadian diplomat and family. It's much more likely that it was an unintended side-effect of an intelligence gathering effort.

The hearing damage occurred at the Diplomat's homes (as it affected families/children as well), and also happened to a Canadian diplomat and family. It's much more likely that it was an unintended side-effect of an intelligence gathering effort.

Not necessarily. A keyfob or even cellphone app constantly emitting high frequency noise to thwart listening devices might affect the carrier and surroundings even when at home.

Global Affairs Canada has confirmed at least one Canadian diplomat in Cuba has been treated in hospital after suffering headaches and hearing loss.

The information comes a day after the U.S. government said it believed some of its diplomats in Havana had been targeted with a covert sonic device that left them with severe hearing loss.

The Canadian diplomat's family members were also affected and treated.

"We are aware of unusual symptoms affecting Canadian and U.S. diplomatic personnel and their families in Havana. The government is actively working - including with U.S. and Cuban authorities - to ascertain the cause," said Brianne Maxwell, a Global Affairs Canada spokesperson.

In a comment earlier I threw out the idea that the hearing damage was caused by a countersurveillance device (such as one to disrupt laser microphones) that was employed incorrectly (used continuously when only meant for use for a few minutes at a time, wrong settings for the size of the room, etc). The fact that it happened to Canadians too might lend credence to that theory, as it is likely the US and Canada shares some degree of technology or services to protect diplomats in foreign countries. Still, this seems the kind of thing that the CIA would try and sweep under the rug if it was US tech that caused it, instead of playing dumb and letting it become mysterious international news.

There's also the possibility that the Cubans employed such a device to protect the privacy of foreign diplomats, as a nice gesture, and it the technology was misused in some way to cause hearing damage.

Being nice to d-bags only gives them permission to continue being d-bags. Same applies to Maduro, North Korean, Putin, Iran, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and Boko Haram. That last only always reminds me of "Temple of Doom"

The article mentions that the "officials familiar with the probe said investigators were looking into the possibilities that the incidents were carried out by a third country such as Russia, possibly operating without the knowledge of Cuba’s formal chain of command."

Of course it doesn't mention that the device could have come from the second party. Hint: I'm talking about the USA spy agencies. Because all US embassies have strange spying devices in or (mostly) on top of them, And do those of the o

I mean; it is scary that such a device is capable of existing, and you can be physically attacked/damaged over time without noticing it.

It is a cruel sort of weapon victims have no chance of defending against with high potential of grave accidental collateral damage, so it should clearly be banned; same with any weapon using light outside human visible range with no visible warning.....

Also, is there some kind of monitoring system that can be installed, and portably carried that could detect such kind

If the commies are harming our diplomats, why did Odumba normalize relations with them? As usual, Odumba had no clue about foreign policy. Castro may be dead, but the antics haven't changed. I expect the Democrats to attack me for asking this, but the question needs an answer.

Yes, because "odumba" could have predicted something that would happen two years after relations with Cuba were re-opened and they would be using a "sonic device" the likes of which are unproven to exist. If Obama was actually that powerful, you really should be afraid of him like you're pretending to be.

The US government has has sonic weapons since the 60's. Obama was a terrorist infiltrator, no other reason every single policy he implemented would be made to harm the US, even the libtards get things right on occasion if only by chance.

It's from a sonic device, beyond his range of hearing, sending him subliminal messages that Obama was a lizard bent on world destruction and Trump was sent back in time to stop him, but Trump got distracted by reality TV and forgot his mission for 8 years.

For most of us there's a clear barrier between imagination and reality, dreams and being awake, fact and fiction. For some, that barrier is broken. You can see that there's "fashions" in lunacy, like after Roswell lots of people claimed to have been abducted by aliens. People read about being abducted by little grey men, then they get abducted by little grey men. A lot of the seed stories aren't created by loons though, like for example there's good indication that Roswell was about making money. And it worked extremely well, maybe they weren't exactly your average tourist but a lot of people came and spent a lot of money they'd never have otherwise.

Which is why I'm pretty sure most of the political conspiracy theories are plants, because even if they're nuts at some point Obama had to spend time and resources disputing the lunacy. And once the ball is rolling everyone can add their own flavor. Father born in Kenya? Let's start a birther theory. Middle name Hussain? Let's start some theories that he's a Muslim... and a terrorist. Black man? Let's start some "Malcom X" theories for white people, some "Uncle Tom" theories for black people. Probably some Illuminati/NWO too, that works for all people in power. The conspiracy theorists tend to love it when you pile it on. And once you get a big enough ball rolling, you start setting off the "no smoke without fire" alarms even in more reasonable people.

The Internet has been a great boon for conspiracy theorists, because even though it's made people with very narrow interests make contact with like-minded all over the world it's also enabled echo-chambers with their entirely own alt-reality. And a lot of people think doing "research" on say #pizzagate is reading all the drivel and watching all the YouTube videos about it. Then you have the semi-reputable sites like Breitbart feeding the fire by keeping an arm's length distance from the actual conspiracies while driving people to them. So plants are the spark, conspiracy nuts the kindling and alt-sites bring the firewood. And the rest of the world wonders why the fires are so hard to put out...

I don't know at this stage how anyone could think the Russians didn't try to meddle with the election. The Russians have also attempted to muck about with recent European elections as well. The Russians are not the West's friends, and seeking division and chaos among the Western powers is critical, seeing as economically they are a midget, and even militarily they could not hope to meet the power of NATO. They have nukes, cheap oil and hackers.

I don't know if you've noticed, but in Cuba they drive cars that are from the 40's and 50's. There is no way they have this advanced tech.

I don't know if you noticed, but most of those cars retain little of what was originally there other than the frame and the original shape of the car. Most have engines that are from more modern (though not the latest tech) Russian, EU and Japanese manufacturers. Besides, the US had such weapons in the 1960's. So it's not like you would need a bleeding edge chip fab in order to do this.

The linked story is such crap. It has gotten us talking about sonic weapons, and Cuba's access to them, and on top of that, it suggest, without any sign of evidence that Russia may be the culprit.

Here are a few things that I think are hard to argue against:1) It only takes some decent knowledge of biology and some 50s tech to create something that deliberately harms a person's hearing.2) Neither Russia nor Cuba has any interest in harming US or Canadian diplomats3) There are quite a few parties (Cuban immigrants, unfettered government agents, Cubans hating Americans) who may want to harm US diplomats, whether to destroy Cuban-US relations, or simply to take perceived revenge on Americans.4) There exist, and have existed for decades, listening devices which are technically passive, but get used through remote application of power. Think a resonating plane or chamber read through lasers, EM radiation, etc. For all I know, some may require inaudible (to humans) sonic waves to operate.

So, as far as I am concerned, the three most likely possibilities are, in no particular order.0) There's nothing going on, this is all due to a parasite infection, an accident with a misused device belonging to the embassy, etc.1) Some asshole, working contrary to Cuban interests, deliberately harmed the diplomats, possibly with a low tech, hand made device.2) The Cubans or Russian fucked up, and harmed the diplomats while trying to spy on them

But nasty Commies deliberately targeting diplomats? I can't see their angle. I'm not saying they would not do it, I am saying I cannot see how they would profit.

The story is sensationalist but like 90% of the stuff from Fox news and CNN and MSNBC and The New York Times it is Fake news, and yet tries to point to all the other news and call it fake. It would be better if they showed at least one iota of proof here, but apparently that is too much to ask! I don't buy it, sorry guys!

The story is sensationalist but like 90% of the stuff from Fox news and CNN and MSNBC and The New York Times it is Fake news, and yet tries to point to all the other news and call it fake. It would be better if they showed at least one iota of proof here, but apparently that is too much to ask! I don't buy it, sorry guys!

There. fixed that for ya.

CNN and MSNBC have a lot of content that is political commentary by pundits. Whenever you see a split screen on CNN, it's not news, it's opinion. Even so, the anchors tend to correct or point out when the pundits state fake information or use false facts. Fox news doesn't even try. Also, just because you don't like or agree with the news that is being covered (i.e. the Trump leaks, the Russia investigation, etc.) doesn't mean that the news is fake.

Fox news doesn't try because it has never been their intention to offer just the news. Fox has always been about presenting a conservative view point.

CNN, etc, may frequently have a liberal slant to their stories but that's less to do with deliberately trying to be a "liberal" news source and more to do with the fact that they have liberal journalists and editors.

Fox is deliberately right wing with the stated purpose of being right wing. CNN is accidentally left wing (but actually have stories that cover

And US diplomats go around the world trying to work issues out to prevent war. Now, I don't agree with invading everyone who doesn't see things our way, but you're complaining that attacks on the people we put out there to help up see eye-to-eye with other nations so we're not inclined to invade them is news?

Huh. What's the point of your comment, again?

Are you implying that, because we're so quick to go to war, we should just start right on with the invasion and bombings and not make any attempt at dipl

What, Cuba may have done something to physically injure US diplomats? Unthinkable! Cuba is a valuable member of the international community, and an important partner of the US. Or at least that's what our last President said.

And friends don't physically assault other friends' diplomats.

To be fair we don't know that Cuba has done anything. It could be a neutral party- or we could have done it to ourselves accidentally.

If our own counter-spying technologies relied on confusing listening bugs by drowning them out in ultrasound noise we could have made our own diplomats go deaf.

That's what I thought too. Hearing loss is caused by the little hairs in your ear that sense the frequencies to be bent over due to too much sound pressure at that frequency. If the frequency is so high that you cannot hear it, then you really aren't missing anything if those hairs fall over. Maybe they just put NAIR in the water.