They saw all the same intelligence reports from the CIA that the president saw and came to the same conclusions.

The CIA intellgience report was accompanied with a report from the state department that warned that WMD's may not actually exist in Iraq. It should be clear now that the intelligence presented to Congress was intentionally deceptive. Why else would Colin Powell shout, "I can't read this, this is bull****!" before presenting the intelligence information to the UN?

Ohh no, I know our horrible 'liberal' democratic western values is so fascistic that I'm shocked the whole country hasn't had an uprising over their suppression of 'choice'..... We sure are ruling that country with an iron fist just like Britain used to do in territories across the globe... Seeing how fascist we are, next thing you know there could be American flags flying next the Iraqi flag and maybe even a McDonald's here or there. The horrors of it all is starting to give me the chills. Also, we may actually stay for another one or two years, which make us ultra-fascist bent on controlling every aspect of Iraqi society. I'm surprised we didn't do anything when the american backed Shiate party lost in the election. As fascist we should have raided that place and declared the election results as being not valid.

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Is our military and homeland security better of with this war? Our defense budget could have been spent more wisely and our soldiers could be hunting the ones who actually attacked us.

I will not argue with you on this point. That's a valid criticism that I have also.

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Blix has protested the war from the beginning and has attested that Saddam's weapons program was virtually destroyed after the first Gulf War.

This may be so....but he still tried to get Iraq to cooperate when they were doing the inspections which was a hard thing for them to do because of Sadam's unwillingness.

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The CIA intellgience report was accompanied with a report from the state department that warned that WMD's may not actually exist in Iraq. It should be clear now that the intelligence presented to Congress was intentionally deceptive.Why else would Colin Powell shout, "I can't read this, this is bull****!" before presenting the intelligence information to the UN?

All in all, there was much more evidence that pointed to existing weapons being there. You are not giving a fair representation of all the facts. I'm looking at everything in context while you are just looking at what you want to see and hear which obviously backs your point of view. Why would the CIA say that the evidence was so overwhelming that it was a 'slam dunk'? I guess we will have to agree to disagree. There have been much worse wars like us bombing Serbia without even going to the UN. Atleast with this war we spent about a year going to the UN to get them to back their previous resolutions and the few countries who didn't join us also happened to be the same ones caught doing dirty business with Sadam.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Atleast with this war we spent about a year going to the UN to get them to back their previous resolutions and the few countries who didn't join us also happened to be the same ones caught doing dirty business with Sadam.

Nacho, right-o! This whole Iraq thing has caught some interesting groups 'red handed'... and in the end the whole financing of Islamic terrorism with the 'food for oil' program'...I'm wondering if in fact someone suspected this all along and had to find a way to smoke it out... Not hard to see why UN support for invading Iraq was tough when some were involved in the crooked schemes...busting that up is probably one of the more important benefits... WMD was one thing, but the food for oil program was a real eye opener... and I think the more we dig the more will be learned about who is financing Islamic terrorist regimes....In the end, protecting Christianity will depend on combating Islamic terrorism and sadistic regimes...and those who support them as well. With complete freedom and safety , Christianity can take root in Iraq, though it may take a while.

America has the rigged the elections of foreign nations in the past, what makes Iraq any different? As for Blix, he supported the inspections in order to show Saddam to be compliant. Please look up the quote from Colin Powell. He knew the intelligence to be false.

America has the rigged the elections of foreign nations in the past, what makes Iraq any different?As for Blix, he supported the inspections in order to show Saddam to be compliant.Please look up the quote from Colin Powell. He knew the intelligence to be false.

We have rigged elections in the past? I would like to know what ones you would be reffering to. I'm starting to worry about you, have you been reading the moonbat conspiracy theories over at the democraticundergroud? Hmmm, what was that qoute from the movie 6th Sense? Some people only see & hear what they want to...

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Nacho, right-o! This whole Iraq thing has caught some interesting groups 'red handed'... and in the end the whole financing of Islamic terrorism with the 'food for oil' program'...I'm wondering if in fact someone suspected this all along and had to find a way to smoke it out... Not hard to see why UN support for invading Iraq was tough when some were involved in the crooked schemes...busting that up is probably one of the more important benefits... WMD was one thing, but the food for oil program was a real eye opener... and I think the more we dig the more will be learned about who is financing Islamic terrorist regimes....In the end, protecting Christianity will depend on combating Islamic terrorism and sadistic regimes...and those who support them as well. With complete freedom and safety , Christianity can take root in Iraq, though it may take a while.

Yep.....ain't it one big coincidence that the people who were raking in billions from the food and oil scandal were the same ones against us? I guess they didn't want to give up all that cash and oil they got from thier buddy Sadam... :-";"xx

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Can you guys have a conversation without getting political? Are you guys so immersed in politics, e.g. listening to talk radio and watching Fox, that you can't even have a conversation without dragging politics into it?

Can you guys have a conversation without getting political? Are you guys so immersed in politics, e.g. listening to talk radio and watching Fox, that you can't even have a conversation without dragging politics into it?

Ummm.....yea.....we can try to do that for you. I'm only here to try to provide an alternative to opinions expressed by Mathew & I don't really see it as being that political by the way. I really don't watch too much TV or Fox for that matter. The only radio show I really listen to is Michael Savage who is really independent when it comes to politics. I think the only show I've been glued to these days is Desperate Housewives (hold your breathe, please don't laugh . Thanks for stopping by though and expressing your opinion.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Nacho, discussing politics is against the rules. I can abide by it...why can't the rest of you?

I guess in a strict technical sense that is true but everyone else here seems to be doing it and there are much worse offenders here that bring up parties, names and policies etc.....just look at some of the recent threads. I have refrained from bringing up politician names, party affiliation & policies that I personally disagree with politically speaking. I think it's ok to discuss some stories that of course will have some political overtones such as this Newsweek thread, if you notice I only speak and use descriptions in a very broad general way without trying to name names & poltical parties etc. to keep from being overtly political. I guess you would have to define what you mean as american politics. I guess I have a much looser understanding than you, I think everything except the whole republicans versus democrats is fine. Atleast my understanding of the political ban here was refraining from posting threads and debating anything that particulary pertained to democrats & republicans and thier party platform/policies. If your that sensitive to it, then maybe you should refrain from posting in such threads that from time to time may have some political overtone to it.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

"I like President Bush personally. He is a sincere man. I respect his office. But, it is becoming painfully obvious that he has no plan to get our country out of the un-Constitutional, bloody, deadly, mess going on in Iraq. In fact, Mr. Bush and John Kerry both favor putting more troops into Iraq. In his recent press conference, Mr. Bush said our troops would be in Iraq 'as long as necessary,' 'for a while,' until Iraq is 'a free country.' He said Iraqis would provide their own security 'eventually.' I strongly disagree. As President, I would move immediately to withdraw all our troops from Iraq in a way that would provide for the safety of those Iraqis who worked with us during this illegal, wrong-headed war.

"I, like President Bush, hope that the Iraqi people, and all people, will be free from tyranny. But, unlike President Bush, I realize that, Constitutionally, as President, it would not be my job to use our military to spread 'freedom' everywhere in the world. Unlike President Bush, I, as President, would realize that I had been elected President of the United States, not President of the World.

"In 1821, John Quincy Adams said, of America: 'She goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.' But, ignoring Adams' wise advice, President Bush, using our military, has gone abroad and destroyed the monster Saddam Hussein who posed no threat to the vital national security interests of our country. The result: We are bogged down in a bloody and expensive mess with no end in sight. If elected President, however, I would move immediately to end our involvement in Iraq. I am not one who believes that when you are in a hole you should not be in, you should keep digging."Michael Peroutka, a real conservativehttp://www.peroutka2004.com/schedule/index.php?action=eventview&event_id=148

I love how conservatives will quote a president from a completely different era as if what he said applies to today. Iraq which is only hours away today, was months away then.... weapons that weren't even imaginable then are in hands they shouldn't be in today. It is not the same world. I don't know if the Iraq war is good or bad. I do know that I should spend more time repenting of my sins and praying and that American political discussion is banned here - so lets talk about if the UK's role in Iraq is just, not America's.

Maybe this is just the closet conservative within me talking, but I definitely would not compare Gitmo to a Soviet gulag.

Let's see, Amnesty International says Gitmo is very similar to a Soviet style Gulag.Now for the comparison:Soviet gulags = almost 20 million murderedGitmo = 0 deaths to date so far

Yea, I really see the resemblance it's so striking! What will the arm chair theorist at Amnasty think of next. You see, there are people that live in reality and then there are the dreamers that live strictly by theory. Maybe in the cartoon world these people live in there might be a hint of truth to what they are saying but in the real world their actions would wind up getting many of us killed once the islamo-fascist are released and they go on their next rampage of destruction.

By the way I find the DOD guide on how to handle a Koran quite fascinating. Maybe they should also give it to the islamist at Gitmo who have on occasion ripped pages out of it and thrown it around themselves. Also might want to give it to the insurgents in Iraq who have blown up mosque in Iraq desecrating the korans that are inside. They need this vital information also.....

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

I wouldn't be surprised if there have been a few acciental deaths due to torture at Gitmo.

Actually, to date there have been no deaths. I wouldn't really call it real torture also. If you want to see real torture take a look at how China treats it's dissidents. The islamist have it really easy getting three warn meals a day and being allowed to partake in daily religious observance. Some of them might even have a higher standard of living coming from some of the mud - huts and caves they were hiding in. Atleast now they get to eat and take showers. Maybe to make them a little more peaceful when can stock all prison cells with Gideon Bible's like they do at hotel chains.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

I believe you are correct sir, but they died from hanging themselves from what I have heard. It's a myth that it's just the U.S. that has had problems with abuse of detainees. It's something that has happened in every country during times of war. Not everyone in our military are going to act accordingly to the rule book, you will always have that 10% that will do things the wrong way.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

The Russian Synodal translation makes the verse out to mean:I admit to you, that by the teaching, which they call a heresy, I really serve God

One Protestant website gives these verses as examples, but I think that perhaps the verses need not be interpreted as if "People of the Way" was a title for Christianity.

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a. Saul of Tarsus persecuted those of the Way - Ac 9:2; 22:4 b. Others spoke evil of the Way - Ac 19:9 c. At Ephesus there was a riot about the Way - Ac 19:23 d. Paul confessed to worship God according to the Way - Ac 24:14 e. Felix the governor gained accurate knowledge about the Way - Ac 24:22http://executableoutlines.com/text/ac9_2.htm

The New King James Version, which the Orthodox Study Bible is based on, does capitalize "The Way" in each of the verses above, while the normal King James Version does not.(I don't have the OSB with me to check how it puts the phrase).

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The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

The Russian Synodal translation makes the verse out to mean:I admit to you, that by the teaching, which they call a heresy, I really serve God

One Protestant website gives these verses as examples, but I think that perhaps the verses need not be interpreted as if "People of the Way" was a title for Christianity.

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a. Saul of Tarsus persecuted those of the Way - Ac 9:2; 22:4 b. Others spoke evil of the Way - Ac 19:9 c. At Ephesus there was a riot about the Way - Ac 19:23 d. Paul confessed to worship God according to the Way - Ac 24:14 e. Felix the governor gained accurate knowledge about the Way - Ac 24:22http://executableoutlines.com/text/ac9_2.htm

The New King James Version, which the Orthodox Study Bible is based on, does capitalize "The Way" in each of the verses above, while the normal King James Version does not.(I don't have the OSB with me to check how it puts the phrase).

I am sorry, but Kolya has not posted in around 7 years. I don't think he/she will ever see this

Can anyone please tell me if it is true that first century Christians were called "People of the Way"? I am doubtful about this.

One Protestant website gives these verses as examples, but I think that perhaps the verses need not be interpreted as if "People of the Way" was a title for Christianity.

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a. Saul of Tarsus persecuted those of the Way - Ac 9:2; 22:4 b. Others spoke evil of the Way - Ac 19:9 c. At Ephesus there was a riot about the Way - Ac 19:23 d. Paul confessed to worship God according to the Way - Ac 24:14 e. Felix the governor gained accurate knowledge about the Way - Ac 24:22http://executableoutlines.com/text/ac9_2.htm

Kolya has not posted in around 7 years. I don't think he/she will ever see this

Gunarr,

It's an open request for anyone. What do you think?

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The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Can anyone please tell me if it is true that first century Christians were called "People of the Way"? I am doubtful about this.

One Protestant website gives these verses as examples, but I think that perhaps the verses need not be interpreted as if "People of the Way" was a title for Christianity.

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a. Saul of Tarsus persecuted those of the Way - Ac 9:2; 22:4 b. Others spoke evil of the Way - Ac 19:9 c. At Ephesus there was a riot about the Way - Ac 19:23 d. Paul confessed to worship God according to the Way - Ac 24:14 e. Felix the governor gained accurate knowledge about the Way - Ac 24:22http://executableoutlines.com/text/ac9_2.htm

Kolya has not posted in around 7 years. I don't think he/she will ever see this

Can anyone please tell me if it is true that first century Christians were called "People of the Way"? I am doubtful about this.

One Protestant website gives these verses as examples, but I think that perhaps the verses need not be interpreted as if "People of the Way" was a title for Christianity.

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a. Saul of Tarsus persecuted those of the Way - Ac 9:2; 22:4 b. Others spoke evil of the Way - Ac 19:9 c. At Ephesus there was a riot about the Way - Ac 19:23 d. Paul confessed to worship God according to the Way - Ac 24:14 e. Felix the governor gained accurate knowledge about the Way - Ac 24:22http://executableoutlines.com/text/ac9_2.htm

think about what?

Dear Gunarr,

I would like to hear what people think about whether it's true that the Christians in the first century were called People of the Way, or if they gave Christianity the name of The Way.

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The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Can anyone please tell me if it is true that first century Christians were called "People of the Way"? I am doubtful about this.

One Protestant website gives these verses as examples, but I think that perhaps the verses need not be interpreted as if "People of the Way" was a title for Christianity.

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a. Saul of Tarsus persecuted those of the Way - Ac 9:2; 22:4 b. Others spoke evil of the Way - Ac 19:9 c. At Ephesus there was a riot about the Way - Ac 19:23 d. Paul confessed to worship God according to the Way - Ac 24:14 e. Felix the governor gained accurate knowledge about the Way - Ac 24:22http://executableoutlines.com/text/ac9_2.htm

think about what?

Dear Gunarr,

I would like to hear what people think about whether it's true that the Christians in the first century were called People of the Way, or if they gave Christianity the name of The Way.

I dunno. Same reason we act like it was so atrocious when we were persecuted and martyred by the Roman Empire, but don't feel bad at all for the pagans when we turned and did the same to them once we came to power.