14th of November 2014

Charlie Hoehn Interview #2

Introduction:

All guys can become more successful with women, they just need to focus on the right things. Charlie Hoehn had some very limiting beliefs early in life that didn’t help him with women. In this episode, Charlie tells us about his limiting beliefs and his failures and successes in dating, and through that, Tucker and Charlie explain how to be funny, how to develop confidence, and how to become the most attractive version of yourself.

Podcast:

You can click here (right click, then click save as) to download the episode directly.

Key takeaways:

All guys start in basically the same place. Everyone has the same insecurities, the same fears, and the same issues.

People who are successful always started as the ones grinding it out, amateurs, people you’ve never heard of. It helps to view everything as one more step, even when you reach the peak of success that’s still a step towards the next thing. Success is not a finish line.

Some ways you can become funny are improv classes, or listening to good comedians perform. Everybody should take an improv class at least once. It’s really important that when you’re talking to a girl, to make sure she feels like she’s on the same level with you and in on the joke. Make her feel like you’re on the same team. View each opportunity as “isn’t this funny” or “isn’t this fun.” View the world through that lens.

You don’t need to be as funny as a professional comedian. To be the funny guy in a normal situation you really only need to say 2-5 things over the course of a night, that’s it.

Be a person who does stuff that’s interesting to you. It goes a long way in making you seem like a more attractive person when you are somebody who does stuff that is meaningful to you.

Think about the areas that might prevent a woman from liking you, and focus on those. Become a person you’re confident and proud of.

To do well with women, be interesting. The way you are interesting is by being interested in what other people have to say. Ideally you know something about it, but even if you don’t, be interested and then bring whatever other knowledge you have to the interaction.

Further reading on Charlie Hoehn:

Charlie’s series on Tim Ferriss’s blog about burnout and curing anxiety: part 1 and part 2.

Podcast Audio Transcription:

Tucker:
That’d be the greatest podcast of all time.

Charlie:
How old is he?

Tucker:
40, he’s like my age but 10 years older like 48.

Charlie:
Just when I thought he’d recovered from narcissism, this is the ultimate. He’s my age but 10 years older.

Tucker:
What’s wrong with that? That’s not narcissistic.

Charlie:
My age, add a decade to it.

Tucker:
Are we recording, are we rolling? So you got all of that? Oh great. I guess that’s going to be the leading. All right Charlie. Let’s toast. You’ve finally grown up and got your own apartment.

Charlie:
Yay, thank you for your charity all this time.

Tucker:
It wasn’t charity; you were a joy to have around. We should have been paying you Charlie.

Charlie:
I demand free.

Tucker:
I mean if you are going to give free work you should get a free place to stay. I think that’s the way it works.

Charlie:
I agree with that. That’s a great motto. That’s my next book.

Tucker:
All right. So we had an excellent response to your last podcast. A bunch of dudes actually really loved it which kind of shocked me because I thought we just bull shitted for an hour and half. I knew it’d be funny, I didn’t know if people would actually take a lot from it. Which shows how well I know my own fucking audience. Obviously not very well. But loved it. I think if not the most, one of the most popular guest episodes we’ve had.

Charlie:
Cool.

Tucker:
And then that combined with the fact that you afterwards told me “oh dude, I forgot about this story” and it was like ridiculously hilarious “and I forgot about this story”, it was ridiculously hilarious and so you have like, apparently and then all these girl friends like listen to the episode and like “oh no Charlie, you forgot about this embarrassing thing you did”. And so we decided to, we meaning you and I, decided to bring you back on for a second hoehn zone follow up. So we want even more embarrassing stories from Charlie.

Charlie:
Oh man, Okay, I’m happy to provide. Actually earlier today I was just making a list. I was just going through my head and I think Facebook was assisting me as well like, “oh yeah that’s how I met that person.” It was just a clear mix of successes and failures and the successes I think are good but the failures especially are.

Tucker:
Instructive.

Charlie:
Yeah. I mean when I listened to the last episode I was like okay, there were a few moments of me kind of making a fool of myself but I think there were even bigger failures than that.

Tucker:
Dude, you wouldn’t believe it’s funny. I actually got an e-mail, I should probably read it out, because the guys’ basic point was I really like his point about what he loved about this episode was that you really humanized your failure and you really learned a lot from it and whatever but then he went on and criticized me in the e-mail. Basically his point was, he doesn’t think that I’ve failed enough with women to be able to teach him how to get women. I kind of get his point actually. I’m making fun of him, but then his point was he feels like very bad wih women. And he has a lot of issues with that. And he feels that in his mind he saw you as like I’m not saying great with women but just like “oh Charlie Hoehn, he’s done all these things, he’s this cool dude, he’s successful at life. I’m not in his league.” But then after the podcast he felt like “okay, I might not be in Charlie’s league now, but there’s a path from me to Charlie”. And his point was, “I love the podcast and I love the advice you give but a lot of time I don’t feel like there’s a path from me to you”, meaning me right?

Charlie:
Right.

Tucker:
And he actually quoted, I don’t know if you remember this part of the podcast, you kept trying to get me to tell an embarrassing story and I’m like, “let me run my own podcast buddy”, and he’s like “see this would’ve been a perfect point for you to open up and be vulnerable”. And I was like “Motherfucker, fuck both of you”. I couldn’t get over I’m like dude, because I really wrote him back, I’m like “look man, so you are telling me I’m not pathetic enough with women to teach you how to be good with women?”, Then he’s like no, no, no, then he kind of explained and it made total sense. So that’s the point. Your failures are really funny, all dudes failures are funny. But they are also really instructive to a lot of guys. Not just because they are learning things to do or ways to get past problems but they are also seeing a model like “oh this guy’s noteworthy and famus and has done things and has a successful life. And he used to be just as bad as I was”. So there’s a path from me to where I want to go. Because a lot of guys don’t see that. You know what I’m saying?

Charlie:
Yeah. So they keep that stuff kind of shelled up and hidden. That’s the way I was for a long time. I think it’s especially this way in business it’s becoming less and less recently online is a lot of entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs look up to people who’ve made millions of dollars online. And that’s all they see. And then the rest are just kind of amateurs just grinding it out, you don’t know what they’re–

Tucker:
You either a major success or you are a total zero.

Charlie:
Yes but the major successes all started out as the ones grinding it out, amateurs, people you’ve never heard of and thought twice of. So I think everyone’s on their own path toward inevitable whatever. But I think it helps to view everything as like this is one more step even when you reach the peak of success that’s still a step towards the next thing.

Tucker:
It’s funny, a lot of guys look at me as like you are Tucker fucking Max, blah, bah blah. And it’s like, in my mind dude, I got 99 problems. It’s just your shit shit isn’t one of them. It’s like I’ve moved past your problem, I just have a different set of problems

Charlie:
Right. To a lot of guys they look at you and you are like “oh my god you’ve made it. You can have anything you want. You had a movie, you had multiple New York Times bestselling books”. But you know when you get there it’s like what is next sort of thing.

Tucker:
Oh yeah, right, exactly.

Charlie:
It’s not “oh yeah, finally.” Maybe that last a day or a week, maybe even a month. But it goes away.

Tucker:
That’s a super good point. I think a lot of guys don’t understand success is not a finish line. In fact there’s literally no finish line. Okay I’ve done certain things that are awesome and I’ve made enough money, I can sit back and not work again, right. But of course that doesn’t really work for me as a person. If you want to do that that’s fine, works for you. But like doesn’t work for me and also it’s like the next thing I do might not work. I might do two or three more things before I find something that’s good. And God forbid, I may never do anything bigger than Beer in Hell in terms of like professional career wise. That may be the biggest artistic thing I ever do.

Charlie:
Very likely. It’s not a knock to you, statistically it’s like you had a fluke. Not a fluke but you had a great timing, great quality product but yeah, struck the chord. If it came out today probably wouldn’t have quite the same impact.

Tucker:
I would do it differently. I would record myself on YouTube and put on YouTube. It’ll be a totally different thing.

Charlie:
There you go.

Tucker:
We talked about this.

Charlie:
And you’re a way better writer, probably, than being on video.

Tucker:
I’m a better writer because I practiced it. I think I would be better, I was a better in person story teller, I developed into a writer because YouTube as a medium didn’t exist.

Charlie:
Yeah, I’ve thought about this as well. Because I have a couple of friends who are really good story tellers and actually one of them was like we got to try and record this on video. It was so different. He couldn’t deliver it with the same punch. I’ve seen you deliver stories, they are hilarious. But when you get a camera on you, it’s a different ballgame.

Tucker:
You have to get used to doing it. And you have to forget it’s there. You have to be so used to it that you don’t think about it. I’m saying if I was 26 today, I don’t think I’d become a writer I think that’s a huge waste of time for me, for my medium. I would take my stories and I would set up a camera and I would sit around my friends and we drink and we just start bull shitting and just have it go for ever and like “oh, let me tell you a story”.

Charlie:
And nicely editing things.

Tucker:
Exactly, and put it– You know what I’m saying?

Charlie:
That would be fun, and have that illustrated as well. You could do that.

Tucker:
Well I would start it as just stories on Youtube, I imagine, you’ve heard me tell the butt sex story right? Like if I had the right amount of alcohol, I’m in the right mood, I can fucking tell that story even better than I write it, so I do that ten times on video and I put the perfect one on. That thing gets 50 million views and all of a sudden it’s like that’s the channel. Like drunk history started that way. That was like a joke they did and then it became this huge fucking thing.

Charlie:
It’s such a brilliant formula. It’s good. It’s funny.

Tucker:
We are about to start drunk hook up stories.

Charlie:
Let’s get it going.

Tucker:
All right. So speaking about stories, let’s start talking about your failures.

Charlie:
Okay.

Tucker:
Let’s go back. I don’t want to frame it that way. Let’s go back to your because you had a bunch more of hook up stories or sort of dating stories or foibles or whatever. So what’s the first one that comes to mind you are like “oh wow, I should’ve told this in the last podcast” now you are going to retell it.

Charlie:
One that came to mind was well when I was writing them down the common thread I found in my failures was I failed to be bold. There were situations where the girl was into me, I either didn’t pick up on the signal or I kind of did, and I suspected it, but my internal monologue talked me out of it, and told me to back off.

Tucker:
So the girl’s sitting at your place on the sofa trying to hold your hand and you are like “I’m going to bed, I’ll see you later”.

Charlie:
Worse.

Tucker:
What was the story, the last one was great, you had some great ones, Hugh Hefner’s daughter or something.

Charlie:
That’s what I was going to mention in this podcast. I didn’t talk about it on the last podcast. I was at one of my good friends’ weddings.

Tucker:
No you told this story.

Charlie:
Did I?

Tucker:
He told this story Jason, didn’t he? Hugh Hefner’s daughter.

Charlie:
I told you after it.

Tucker:
Oh okay, then this story is amazing, tell the story.

Charlie:
Yeah. So I was at my friend’s wedding and before the wedding I knew she had some attractive friends from this rich county in Colorado that were coming, I was like “oh can you put me next to some attractive friends”, she’s like, “yeah no problem”.

Tucker:
So how old were you at the time?

Charlie:
I think 22.

Tucker:
22 so you are like a senior in college.

Charlie:
Yeah, around there, I think.

Tucker:
So this is your college friends getting married.

Charlie:
Yeah. She was one of the first because she dated this guy since high school. So went to the wedding, it was really fun and I was sitting next to a girl, I forget her name but I know that she was related to Hugh Hefner, like blood line. And she was really attractive, a few years younger than me and we were pretty flirtatious.

Tucker:
So you were 22, she’s 19.

Charlie:
Not quite, I think she was 20. How dare you Tucker, I’m not a monster.

Tucker:
You don’t remember her name. And then you correct me one year on the age, well fuck me running.

Charlie:
Sorry, it was my age, minus two years.

Tucker:
Alright. So Hugh Hefner’s daughter or cousin or whatever, this hot 20 years old sitting next to you at the wedding.

Charlie:
Yeah. And we are getting along, we get on the dance floor super flirtatious and having a great time and after we go to the after party at my friends’ hotel which was a monstrous place that has this pool next to the mountains and stuff. Everyone gets in the hot tub and she and I get in the pool and like she’s swimming up like right next to me, it’s dark.

Tucker:
Put her big playboy titties on you?

Charlie:
Yeah. Basically. And kind of getting in my face and she swims to this secluded area and asks me to come over and in my mind I was like “there’s no way that this is like, she’s” for some reason I just didn’t think that she was thinking like..

Tucker:
It wasn’t a normal possibllity for you.

Charlie:
Right. You know that moment I your head when you are like “should I kiss this girl”, as soon as you ask that yes, the answer is yes but if you start talking to yourself like “maybe I don’t know. Maybe she’s not it”, then it’s gone, the moment kind of gone and she’s assessed that you are too scared sort of thing and it’s never spoken but it’s just understood. That was basically the gist of it.

Tucker:
Hold on. Let’s break this down, because this is actually funny. So you are in a pool like in a hotel pool. So it’s like you–

Charlie:
It was late.

Tucker:
So like 10 people drinking all in their 20s.

Charlie:
All of us drunk.

Tucker:
So she said hey Charlie come over to this dark secluded part of the pool with me and no one else.

Charlie:
Yes.

Tucker:
And your thought is, what did you actually say “no I’m good over here?”

Charlie:
I was like “sure, let’s go”,

Tucker:
And you went over.

Charlie:
But inside I was nervous.

Tucker:
And you went over and she’s like kind of close to you and accidently brushing up against your dick and whatever and then you are just like staring like “so did you see that new transformers movie, it’s good”.

Charlie:
No I was just quiet and smiled like an idiot that was basically it. I wasn’t like a big toothy grin but I was like trying to maintain the poise.

Tucker:
And then what, she got frustrated and left?

Charlie:
She’s like I’m sure she kind of got “well this isn’t progressing” then she got out of the hot tub. Yeah there’s been a handful of situations like that where, with her that was over, man I choked there.

Tucker:
So you knew immediately afterwards?

Charlie:
Yeah, basically. Not right away, but it hit me–

Tucker:
Like 20 minutes later.

Charlie:
Yeah I was like oh man.

Tucker:
“Oh wow I should’ve probably touched her genitals”.

Charlie:
Or at least kissed her mouth, at least made a move, yeah. There is another situation like that where, this was more like aggressive denial of what the situation was. I had an internship at an ad agency and guys that have never been in an ad agency, they are just swarming with beautiful women, it’s crazy.

Tucker:
All the creative professions.

Charlie:
Yeah. And my boss, when I started the internship she was I think a year or two older than I was and very beautiful. And we just got in the role of boss employee or intern basically.

Tucker:
You don’t have fantasies about that?

Charlie:
I did, but–

Tucker:
I know exactly where this is going to end.

Charlie:
You are already rolling your eyes.

Tucker:
I’m already frustrated. Because I would’ve knocked the bottom out of this bitch.

Charlie:
There was never any sort of tension or anything when we were working.

Tucker:
You mean she was professional in the work place.

Charlie:
Totally. Yeah she was. So I adapted that role as well and frankly I was there to like learn stuff, I was genuinely into like learning videography and stuff, but we still hung out together after and became pretty good friends. I remember I was, I think taking a trip to Argentina or something. I was going out of the country. Maybe New Zealand, I forget the timeline. She came to my going away party and she was like dressed up, she looked amazing. In my mind I was like,

Tucker:
“She must be going somewhere after”.

Charlie:
Exactly. And she stayed the whole night. I wasn’t joking when I said in the last podcast it took me so long to get up to like, I’m catching 90% of the signals now there’s only 10% that are slipping through. For a long time I was stupid.

Tucker:
Keep going with that story. Because I guarantee there’s more good stuff.

Charlie:
Right. So there were 20 or 30 friends at this bar that hung out. And she stayed till the very end. Then, I was driving, she drove my friend and I back to his house where I was staying and then I remember she, that was like a weird good bye.

Tucker:
She hugged you real hard for a really long time.

Charlie:
Yeah. And she texted me and she was like you need to be more bold Charlie Hoehn.

Tucker:
Oh my god.

Charlie:
I was like, and then it was like “oh my gosh”, slow motion reality is coming.

Tucker:
It’s like the end of usual suspect.

Charlie:
Yeah. She walked off without a limp

Tucker:
Oh, she was Keyser Soze.

Charlie:
I looked at the bottom of the coffee cup. But it ended up working out. She and I ended up falling around together.

Tucker:
When?

Charlie:
It was shortly after when I came back it was New Year’s Eve.

Tucker:
You went to New Zealand or something? How long till you came back?

Charlie:
It had to have been Argentina,

Tucker:
Whatever.

Charlie:
I was in New Zealand for a long time, but Argentina was only in for like 6 weeks and then came back on New Year’s.

Tucker:
So the first thing you did was text her “hey, want to fuck?”

Charlie:
No, no, no. I don’t really talk to girls that way unless I’ve been dating them for a long time. I just don’t. It actually weirds me out when guys talk that way straight up to girls.

Tucker:
You mean like when I say to Veronica I’m going to dump a load in you, lets go back there.

Charlie:
Totally.

Tucker:
She loves it.

Charlie:
Yeah so New Years I remember she came out real late after all of our friends had kind of left. We went to the nicest hotel in Denver which is normally $300 a night. I negotiated down to $80 a night.

Tucker:
Do you have an app that helps you understand this?

Charlie:
I do what a perfect plug Negotiate It, available for a couple of dollars on itunes.

Tucker:
He actually does have an app people, this is not a joke. He and Ramit Sethi released an app. Did you actually use the app though? Wouldn’t that be funny? You have like a little app script. So how about 100$ a night.

Charlie:
“Listen, times are tough. what can you do for me?” No I said my fiancé and I and the guy looking at me was like “all right. Let me see what I can do.”

Tucker:
So you had to pay $80 to sleep with her, but not directly to her.

Charlie:
Well I mean it was either that or drive home drunk because there were no taxis.

Tucker:
So $80 for the hotel.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
And then you had a lot of sex. And it was great. Then what did she text you afterwards? “That was bold Charlie Hoehn?”

Charlie:
“That was better”

Tucker:
So, what are some others, because you were about to go onto another story before I wanted more details.

Charlie:
Do you mind if I pull out this list?

Tucker:
No I think that’ll be great. I think if you have a detailed list.

Charlie:
I actually do.

Tucker:
It’s on graph paper, that’s the best part.

Charlie:
I like to write things out. Which do you prefer, talking about failures?

Tucker:
Charlie, it’s your podcast buddy.

Charlie:
You corrected me last time.

Tucker:
Yeah right, but these are your stories.

Charlie:
Yeah so sticking with the theme of being failures and being bold, when I was in college I had a very beautiful neighbor. Very, very beautiful. She was older than me I think 2 years older and this was another situation where in my mind I used to get a distorted sense of my own abilities of like here’s the ceiling, you can’t get past it sort of thing. And she would say stuff like, I thought she was joking, “Why won’t you ask me out?” Not directly, but she would make little jokes.

Tucker:
She asked you out, like what?

Charlie:
She didn’t ask me out, but she would say stuff like we were talking about the creepiest stuff, I asked her what the creepiest ways guys tried to pick her up was, she had great stories because guys were merciless on her like a guy she was getting in her car and another guy got in her back seat and she said “where do you think you are going?” And he was like “your place”.

Tucker:
That’s not picking a girl up. That’s like call the cops shit.

Charlie:
Yeah. That’s really creepy.

Tucker:
Especially if you don’t know her.

Charlie:
Yeah. She got stuff like that a lot.

Tucker:
The back seat is even more weird. What you are going to do, strangle her or she’s your taxi driver that you are going to then fuck.

Charlie:
Exactly.

Tucker:
What the hell is going on with that dude?

Charlie:
I know, but she had multiple stories like that and her boyfriends were like just these dudes who were like Abercrombie model looking guys and so in my mind I was like, meh.

Tucker:
“I’m not in their league”.

Charlie:
No I’m not and I’m younger than her.

Tucker:
Charlie you are very handsome.

Charlie:
Thank you Tucker, appreciate that.

Tucker:
Hold on, like this is college right? How old was she?

Charlie:
My age plus 2.

Tucker:
Dick, you’ll never let me forget that.

Charlie:
I think I was 19 or 20 and she was 21, 22.

Tucker:
But in college that’s like whatever junior, freshmen or a sophomore that’s like a big difference. So in your mind she just wasn’t even in your league so you just never even bothered to pick up the signals. So what happened?

Charlie:
Nothing happened but I realized as I got older like, “wow I could’ve done that, we could’ve dated.”

Tucker:
Or at least you could’ve shot a load in her. You said it that way.

Charlie:
This is not the time for that. Yeah.

Tucker:
You know she likes to have loads shot in her, it’s not a bad thing.

Charlie:
I agree with you, I just think it’s crass, crass to say, but I remembered also in college this was before that. I mentioned this in the last podcast, I was trying things basically that I learned. So like David De Angelo he used to teach how to be cocky and funny, that was a thing. But in my mind that was a thing I had to work myself up to in real life. I tried it in real life, but I wanted to try it through like e-mailing, and messaging.

Tucker:
I can’t really imagine you being cocky funny. It’s like I’m the definition of cocky funny, I can never imaging you doing that. In fact I don’t think it would work for you, your personality I mean.

Tucker:
You do improv whatever. Let’s actually dive down that hole a little bit. How do you be funny. Because cocky funny is I call more arrogant funny, same thing. I’m going to subtly put you down but you are in on the joke with me. It’s not like making fun of you, sort of teasing you but still sort of like a tiger swatting at a cub.. Something like that right? Totally not your personality and there are tons of other ways to be funny. In fact cocky funny is never the funniest. Like no comedian is cocky funny.

Charlie:
It’s the cocky thing through it all I think. Because you are trying to say without explicitly saying it that you have a higher status. Do you agree?

Tucker:
Of course.

Charlie:
So I think the thing I really liked in terms of comedy is everyone is kind of on the same playing field. We’ve talked about this actually. When people aren’t in on the joke it’s less fun for them or it’s not–

Tucker:
It’s not fun at all for them.

Charlie:
So empathizing with them but also like lifting them up, I love people who are self-deprecating too. That to me is the most likable quality in comedians. I love when they make fun of themselves.

Tucker:
Louis CK is the master of that. He doesn’t makes fun of himself, he savages himself.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
Conan O Brian I think more of a not a put on, because he’s very funny.

Charlie:
Back in the day he was incredible I thought putting himself down.

Tucker:
Yeah he’s a great comedian, he’s far funnier than me, I’m not trying to criticize. In my mind the king of self-deprecation is Louis CK because he doesn’t even put himself down. He — savages is even the wrong word. It’s like he exposes his most sad and vulnerable flaws in the most open way possible whereas Conan like, “oh I got red hair, look at me I’m a fucking ginger”. Whereas he’s not vulnerable funny, he’s comedian funny. Louis CK, I think there’s a reason that he has resonated with the culture in a way very few comedians have is because he’s not just funny. He’s also expressing real vulnerabilities. Who else has done it Dave Chappel, Eddie Murphy, old school. Eddie Murphy raw, there’s a couple of others like Robin William at times. Real true emotional raw vulnerability. Like I’ve never seen Conan do it. Conan is super funny but Louis CK is so far beyond funny. You laugh so much you want to cry not just from laughing but also from holy shit that’s so sad.

Charlie:
It’s so sad and frequently you relate to it. On a very deep level and I think that’s the difference between the type of vulnerable comedy that is so universally appealing versus cocky funny which you have a shield up and you are defending yourself against other people. You are attacking people.

Tucker:
You are attacking them without making them feel uncomfortable.

Charlie:
Or you are like you can teeter right along that line where it’s like yeah, I just couldn’t do that very well. The story I was going to get at is, I used to, it’s kind of embarrassing to say now. I used to message girls, Facebook came out when I was in college. So it was like this weird new cultural thing that just started. So people would become miniature celebrities on Facebook. Back in the day at each campus and —

Tucker:
If you had a funny status, and a bunch of people liked it or whatever.

Charlie:
Or like a really pretty picture of you. So I was testing to see how girls responded to what I thought were attempts at this, and it didn’t go well.

Tucker:
What do you mean?

Charlie:
A lot of girls were like–

Tucker:
Hold on, what were they reacting to?

Charlie:
I think–

Tucker:
You put out a picture of you with like and African kid, puppy or.

Charlie:
No not at all. I was messaging them directly, kind of poking fun at them and I wish I had an example at this.

Tucker:
Oh you’ll be like “hey what’s up. Which of those 8 girls in the picture is you? The fat one? LOL” or something like that.

Charlie:
Yeah,

Tucker:
That’s what I would say. Without LOL, “Which one are you the fat one? I hope not” that’s more my joke.

Charlie:
And actually one of my friends, he does this on tinder and he’s a master at it, like it’s genuinely hilarious and girls love it because he’s so good at it or he’ll just crash as burn he’ll say stuff like, is there any reason why you are not hotter?

Tucker:
That’s terrible.

Charlie:
That is so ridiculous that the girls think it’s funny.

Tucker:
It’s like in my third book, I would go back and forth with those girls trying to have sex with me and do ridiculous shit, it’s the most fun ever. You don’t give a fuck and you just try to be funny, the girls who get it will love you. And a lot of girls won’t get it, they get pissed fuck him, girls who get it, you are in.

Charlie:
Yeah it’s fun.

Tucker:
Hold on. So you were messaging girls.

Charlie:
But I wasn’t like, it was clear that I wasn’t really having fun with it, it was just me going through the motions what I thought might work.

Tucker:
Here’s what a cocky funny guy would say.

Charlie:
Hey I can see, I don’t know. Hey I can see the roots of your hair, I don’t know.

Charlie:
Not that ridiculous. But like something that seems like the structure of the sentence looked like a compliment but it was clearly a put down, you know, so–

Tucker:
But it wasn’t funny you were like, or

Charlie:
Who is this guy, coming out of nowhere.

Tucker:
Especially because you are approaching them out of nowhere.

Charlie:
Right. In that phase I was very much like I don’t know if it’s worse and frankly I’m kind of terrified to say this,

Tucker:
Because you didn’t do that in person.

Charlie:
Right.

Tucker:
So none of that worked.

Charlie:
Yeah. I tried it a couple of times in person and girls that it worked on were,

Tucker:
I know what you are going to say, say it.

Charlie:
Kind of emotionally,

Tucker:
Broken?

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
So here’s the thing. You are a funny dude and I see you cracking girls up all the time. So what do you do how that works for your personality? Because there are a lot of different ways to be funny, what’s your strategy? Like what works, you know what I’m saying?

Charlie:
I’ll be curious to hear your take on this because it’s kind of hard for me to dissect because it’s so engrained in me now, I honestly don’t know how to describe it apart from I’ve been listening to stand up for a long time and it’s not like I take their jokes. But I can deliver the cadence of somebody who tells some pretty good stories. I have my own stories they are fun and I’ve also been practicing improv comedy for close to a year now.

Tucker:
You know who I would say you your style is very like, imagine without any of the snark or the arrogance, Daniel Tosh. Because if you take delivery style away he’s actually very self-deprecating and very absurdist. But you have the same underlying confidence that he has, so he has that kind of, I don’t know if he’s gay or not. I feel like he has to be gay, he has that gay snarkiness you know,

Charlie:
And he makes jokes about him being gay all the time.

Tucker:
Who knows but there are really queeny guys with really incisive snarkiness. You don’t have that all. But if you take that away, he still makes fun of himself. Not take it away, but a lot of people like, oh he says something mean, he’s a dick. Which is what people say about me all the time. Hold on, half my book is shit that’s bad that happens to me. He’s the same way. In that regard. I’m just saying like, people mistake him for being a snarky dick because they only look at that, but he has a deep underlying confidence and a lot of humor humility. He’ll attack himself just as much as anyone else. You are like him with any of the snark and little bit more absurdity. So it’s more like, for whatever reason kind of maybe because you have the same body style, some of the same jokey mannerism, that’s’ what you remind me of. I would also say like an American Jim Jefferies

Charlie:
I love Jim Jefferies.

Tucker:
He’s funny.

Charlie:
He’s great,

Tucker:
He’s so Australian though, it’s hard to imagine what the American Jim Jefferies would be like. But it’s sort of like he’s a real dude who just points out funny shit. But he does it in an Australian way which is a little different. But sort of like a mix of straight non-snarky Daniel Tosh and an American Jim Geoffrey.. You are not funny as either. That’s no knock on you, these two are two of the funniest dudes on earth. So not being as funny as them is fine Like saying “oh I can’t dunk like Lebron James. Maybe neither can anyone else. What that leaves is I think you have a willingness to not humiliate yourself but humble yourself. You are intelligently and incisively perceptive and then you are always willing to point out and laugh at, either observe it in someone else or point out yourself like Tosh will always go after himself just so much as anyone else, Jeffries will always do that and they are both like very intelligent but also base humor, you know what I’m saying

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
And you are like the same like you’ll laugh at a poop joke but also make a really incisive emotional comment. But my question is not like, “oh let’s talk about how funny Charlie Hoehn is.” I have a question. How did you develop your own comedy style? Because we get this questions a lot from guys like “my friends think I’m funny but no girl does”. I’m trying to be funny but I don’t know how to be funny. You actually take improv you are good at it, you study comedy right. So imagine Charlie Hoehn at 20, what does Charlie Hoehn now which is like me minus 8 years, or whatever. What does Charlie Hoehn now tells Charlie Hoehn at 20 or 23 here’s how you get funny.

Charlie:
Yeah. So the first component is — which by the way that was very rewarding for me to hear you break that down. The first component that I said is just studying these guys and just being kind of a student of people who have charisma and have really funny material, how do they deliver it. I think the second thing is, it’s really important when you are talking to a girl to make sure she feels like she’s on the same level with you and in on the joke rather than the butt. And if you make a crack at her at least for me it’s important to make her feel like “don’t worry. We are still on the same team”

Tucker:
Well this should never come. You guys have a joke repertoire, and then it’s like here’s what I think. Tell me if you agree with this. So I always start like, “oh look at that person”, we make fun of someone else and tease someone else and then we laugh together and then I can go after her a little bit and she knows we’re cool.

Charlie::
Yeah. I had a similar thing the other week. My basketball team and I went out to this bar after a game and we got there and there was this art show that was going on which never happens really. And I walked up to the bar and there was a girl sitting there and she kind of looked at me and I kind of said “boy this art is making me thirsty”

Tucker:
Was she old enough to get the joke?

Charlie:
She says you mean these pretzels? I said yes.

Tucker:
My penis will be in your vagina, that’s exactly what you should’ve said.

Charlie:
I mean we had a good little flirtatious rapport and after that and I was in with her friends immediately, because we bonded over Seinfeld and everything. So just looking for those opportunities to say something silly is always fun. Just like you can make a funny comment about pretty much anything and just, that was the main thing I think everybody should try improv at least once and you’ve recommended this a few times I think. Man it really does put you in the mentality of instead of waiting around thinking this moment is totally perfect, I have everything I need to make something out of this. Improv really helps. You really don’t have to be funny. I was talking to a friend of mine last night. We went to watch an open mic bar, an open mic night at a cafe and he’s been doing improv for a while now too and he’s Pakistani and I mentioned that because,

Tucker:
He’s got the accent? because a Pakistani with the accent,

Charlie:
No, he doesn’t.

Tucker:
Or just be crazy fun.

Charlie:
His parents were Pakistani I should say he grew up in America. But I think I’ve been around Pakistani people when I was travelling around.

Tucker:
I picture the dude from short circuit, you know the movie?

Charlie:
I haven’t seen that.

Tucker:
Oh got the Indian dude in the short circuit is the best most offensive Hollywood stereotype of all time. Oh it’s amazing. Alright. So go ahead.

Charlie:
I guess it’s not that big of a deal that he is, but I just thought it was interesting what he said which was I didn’t consider myself a really witty or funny person going into improv. But after doing it for a while you flex that muscle enough and you realize this stuff just comes out and flows much more naturally and everybody’s witty, everybody can make comments about whatever’s going on, they just hold back.

Tucker:
Here’s the thing. I think most guys what they do is they look at someone really funny like Jim Jefferies or Daniel Tosh or even me and they’re like “I could never be that funny”

Charlie:
It’s also the same as what we were talking about earlier.

Tucker:
Here’s the thing. They might be right. You might not be able to be me or Daniel Tosh, but you don’t have to be Daniel Tosh to be a funny dude. Like you are not Daniel Tosh or Jim Jeffries, you are not even in their league, but I’ve seen you a hundred times in social situations, not only be really funny but be seen as the funny guy. To be the funny guy in a normal social situation you really only need to say 2-5 funny things over the course of the night, that’s it. Daniel Tosh, like in one half hour show that dude is funny like 48 times. Also he has a team of writers and he’s a professional comedian and it is what he does for a job. By the way if you go on a date with Daniel Tosh, and he acts like that, women will be like what the fuck is wrong with you, act like a person. She would think it was the worst date of all time

Charlie:
That’ll be the worst date of her life.

Tucker:
Like this isn’t a date, this is a monologue.

Charlie:
Yeah. That’s right. And that’s why it’s actually cool there’s a good documentary called comedians of comedy and you get to watch guys like Patton Oswald, Brian Posehn behind the scenes being not funny 99% of the time and just going through the motions of life and then they get on the stage and like “how are you this funny all the time”, it’s well rehersed material and women like that.

Tucker:
It’s a rare comedian who can be funny it’s a person who can be funny all the time. I mean you’ve seen it on the movie tour how many times. People like, they meet me and they are disappointed because I’m not drunk playing on a table screaming curses and shitting myself, it’s like what the fuck is wrong with you.

Charlie:
And you and I have both met people who just by the sound of their voice the way they say things, this person can talk. The can say the Gettysberg Address and that’ll be the funniest thing, and it’s so magical being around those people. I love being around those people but then I will ever be as funny as those people.

Tucker:
I bet every girl you’ve hooked up with last 5 years and mostly girls who date you, one of the number one or two things they are going to say about what they like about you is that you are funny. “He’s so funny.” Not even he’s so funny, “he makes me laugh. ”

Charlie:
I think,

Tucker:
It’s not the same thing.

Charlie:
It’s a huge though is I select girls who think I’m funny.

Tucker:
Of course, who wants to go hang around a girl who thinks you are not funny.

Charlie:
Right.

Tucker:
How terrible would that be?

Charlie:
It is terrible but a lot of guys end up in those relationships where the girl doesn’t think they are funny, and I think this is one of the top criteria to have. If you are going to have a girlfriend, pick a girl who you enjoy the sound of her laugh and she laughs whenever you talk basically.

Tucker:
If she thinks you are funny. Not whenever you talk. But she thinks you are a funny person.

Charlie:
Because that’s a relationship where the girl just enjoys who you are and every time you talk.

Tucker:
Of course. So you got to be funny by what by just taking improv or just getting the girl in on the joke or what? So what’s the take away for a young guys in this? What do I do? I try to be funny, what do I do, take improv I get it, what else do I do?

Charlie:
To view each opportunity as isn’t this funny or fun. To view the world through that lens. That’s the best way I can explain this. It’s more of a mindset. You don’t have to force jokes. Sometimes stuff is just like–

Tucker:
It’s not about telling jokes.

Charlie:
Yeah any situation can be funny but it’s being appropriate or inappropriate. I mean that’s the best way I can explain it. It’s just you can kind of take the posture of somebody who’s about to make a joke, everybody knows that feeling of like, I think what it feels like when you were about to say something funny, you get a little lift inside and you can take that posture and it almost automatically makes you funnier.

Tucker:
All right. So what are some other funny stories?

Charlie:
Some funny stories.

Tucker:
Come on funny man, now you are on the clock funny man.

Charlie:
I know, I’m trying to think. Funny stories.

Tucker:
Not funny, instructive, anything pathetic is funny, for you in this case.

Charlie:
Okay. Yeah I mean the main ones have been, I can tell you about the first date my last girlfriend and I went on, very first date, it was pretty ridiculous.

Tucker:
The one you dated in Austin?

Charlie:
Yeah we dated for about 9 months.

Tucker:
Who I’m thinking about?

Charlie:
Yeah. And our first date, I didn’t really even process it

Tucker:
As a date?

Charlie:
No, I didn’t process how ridiculous it was until we went over it and she was like, “I told that story to like 6 people”. I was like, “you are right, that was ridiculous”. So our first date, we had an improv class together and then I think the next day,

Tucker:
Met a hot girl in improv class.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
Another reason to take improv.

Charlie:
And she was super cool, she had spent all this time in Brazil and had worked on an organic farm.

Tucker:
I know who she is, you told me about that.

Charlie:
I loved her back story and who she was. So I reached out to her through e-mail and said “hey you want to hang out and maybe throw the Frisbee around or go on a walk or something, just hang out”

Tucker:
You did not say throw a Frisbee around in your e-mail.

Charlie:
I said the aerobie.

Tucker:
Oh my god.

Charlie:
And she was like “yeah, sure”. She didn’t know what the aerobie.

Tucker:
Have you talked about the aerobie with her before.

Charlie:
No. She didn’t know what it was, but she was like “if it’s a sport I’m down to play”. I was like “all right”. And so we got together. She came–

Tucker:
Don’t do that everyone listening, don’t ask a girls if you want to throw an aerobe around.

Charlie:
Dissect this. Why?

Tucker:
I don’t know. So you’re like “‘shooting loads’ makes me feel like side show bob with the rake”, throwing the aerobie round makes me feel 10 times worse. I have no fear on almost anything. And if you were like “hey go to that girl and ask her she wants to throw an aerobie around”, I think I would shit my pants.

Charlie:
To me it was how can hang out with this person and get to know her if it doesn’t work out I’m stuck taking improv with her for the next 6 weeks for 3 hours.

Tucker:
That would be very funny though if it’s awkward.

Charlie:
Yeah, it would

Tucker:
If you go on a date and it doesn’t work and then you are like going for a kiss and she’s like get away from you that’ll make improv even better.

Charlie:
It makes it a lot harder.

Tucker:
I think it’ll make it more fun.

Charlie:
So for me I was like maybe starting this off kind of slow. But I was attracted to her right away.

Tucker:
Aerobies go pretty fast.

Charlie:
So maybe don’t ask a girl if she wants to play aerobie. Anyway she came over.

Tucker:
I guess it worked for you though man. Who am I to say.

Charlie:
And we went on this walk to this area it was like a 10 minute walk to go play catch. And on the second throw she threw it in a tree and it got stuck way up high and I was like “don’t worry, I got this” and I took off my sandal, threw it in the tree, that got stuck and I was like “don’t worry I still got this”. Took the next and threw it, it got stuck. Like 1, 2, 3 all in the tree. And so we had to walk back all the way on barefoot.

Tucker:
Are you guys laughing the whole time? Or is it like an anxious moment?

Charlie:
No it wasn’t anxious at all. I was just like, “well that was ridiculous”. And of course I was laughing. But I was like “ah, whatever”. And so we go back and I asked the front desk, “do you guys have anything that I can like pull something out of a tree with you? I don’t know, some sort of extension pole or something”. They are like “yeah we have the human saver in the pool”.

Tucker:
Oh yeah, yeah.

Charlie:
It’s super long, it’s like a 30 foot pole that’s really heavy actually and I’m not going to make her carry it. So I just had this thing on my shoulder, I’m walking barefoot for like 15 minutes back with this thing on. And yeah, I

Tucker:
So she’s cool with this the whole time.

Charlie:
She’s a writer in her head so if she’s like analyzing ‘this is a ridiculous story just unfolding’ But in my mind I’ve been through way more ridiculous scenarios than this I’m like this is par for the course. This is totally standard.

Tucker:
What a loser, to throw his shoes and aerobie on a date.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
So did you get them down?

Charlie:
Yeah, I did. But at soon as we got it down it was like well we are not going to play this. And so we walked back, I made a fool of myself because she mentioned that she was a writer and that she wanted to publish books eventually or be published someday and I think I said something condescending along the lines of “oh sweetie have I got a lot to teach you” sort of, a line that was like that. It was a total dork line.

Tucker:
It was a total pussy drying up line.

Charlie:
Exactly. That’s a better way of putting it. But it was, I didn’t really think about it, but I was saying it kind of jokingly. So it was such a weird first date in retrospect.

Charlie:
That was basically it. We came back. She went to get coffee and spilled like ice all over the place I didn’t even process it.

Tucker:
Because she was like nervous, how flustered about how fucking weird the date was.

Charlie:
No it was just like a genuine mistake. But then she went back home and came back, and then I asked her out again a couple of weeks later and she and I were both like “we are glad we are trying this again because that first date was just weird”. Because it turned into a business talk. It turned into a consulting session basically.

Tucker:
So it wasn’t really shoes and the aerobie in the tree that made it weird. That was in a way sort of fun.

Charlie:
It was a combination.

Tucker:
It was the book.

Charlie:
It was like me taking this role of let me advise you which was not a good thing to do.

Tucker:
Which was terrible.

Charlie:
Yeah. But I genuinely get excited when I’m telling people about that when I’m like “oh you don’t have to go the traditional route. You can do all this” blah, blah, blah. So we went to top golf. There were like tons of, it rained like crazy that night. So this was on the second date and top golf is really fun driving range. And we went to a bar afterwards and this is one thing I’ll give myself credit for for sure. I can hold my own in a conversation with pretty much anybody and I’ve just studied a lot of stuff and I’ve immersed myself in a lot of different types of culture.

Tucker:
Of course.

Charlie:
You’ve seen me talk about astrology compatibility for like an hour with girls. Because I actually know about that because it’s fun and it’s interesting to me. And I think this gets to a broader point of if you want to do well with girls, be an interested person.

Tucker:
Be interesting. So how can you be interesting, be interested in what other people have to say. Ideally you know something about it, but even if you don’t be interested and then bring whatever other knowledge you have to there.

Charlie:
Oh dude. So let me transition real quick into this other story,

Tucker:
Is this better or worse than aerobies and shoes in tree?

Charlie:
It’s not a funny story, but it’s instructive.

Tucker:
Okay.

Charlie:
So you introduced me to a great book called ‘it’s not all about me.’

Tucker:
Yeah Robin Dreeke’s book

Charlie:
Can you give a quick synopsis and I’ll go,

Tucker:
Oh we actually have a podcast about conversation coming up in a few months. That covers some of this and I think Robin’s actually going to be a guest in the podcast.

Charlie:
Nice.

Tucker:
He is basically the guy who codified the FBIs basically formula for talking to CIs and cultivate,

Charlie:
CIs?

Tucker:
Confidential Informants.

Charlie:
Okay.

Tucker:
So for basically meeting people and cultivating confidential informants. And this guy essentially took all the best research and conversation and packed it into very easy to follow sort of manual for meeting and creating quick rapport and getting information out of people and then befriending them etc. etc. Right.

Charlie:
It was super short and amazing.

Tucker:
What did I tell you motherfucker.

Charlie:
That’s great.

Tucker:
Worst name, worst design, terrible cover, amazing book.

Charlie:
Great book and very distinct, gets to the point and the stuff sticks with you. And the stuff I reading there, I remember distinctly actually using in the past in a few situations. So I remember I was going through like okay what were approach is that work where a normal group of guys might be intimidated to make that approach. So I remember being in a bar where there were these 3 girls who were dressed up in cocktail dresses and very, very striking, very beautiful and I was with a friend of mine and these girls were not being approached by anybody because they were kind of

Tucker:
They seemed out of place and too hot.

Charlie:
They did and we walked up to them and I said to my friends let me be the one who kind of opens this and I said a few things from the book that actually worked which is “sorry to bother you guys, we are just about to go get a drink, but I just wanted to ask you are you guys about to head to a club or something? Like why are you so much more dressed up and why is nobody talking to you what’s the deal here” and that was it.

Tucker:
Do you want me to breakdown exactly what you did right?

Charlie:
Yeah,

Tucker:
“I don’t mean to interrupt” which is like polite and lets them know you are not a creeper. Second thing you said is “we are about to go get a drink” which puts a limit on the conversation so it doesn’t make them think you are trying to monopolize them or trying to hit on them, you have a time limit so an end to the conversation. So they immediately don’t see you as a threat and don’t see you as a creeper and then you ask a complimentary, like backhanded but still complimentary question. You’re social intelligent in pointing out something about them they took time to do, dress up etc. And then backhanded complimenting why isn’t anyone talking to you, implication being you look amazing I want to be talking to you.

Charlie:
Right.

Tucker:
It’s like a perfect way to start a conversation.

Charlie:
Super easy and if guys can just remember these two things of sorry to bug you guys or sorry to interrupt you guys, we are just about to go get a drink those two things alone can give you permission to say whatever you need.

Tucker:
It’s not about those words it’s about the point is you want to,

Charlie:
Not be a threat,

Tucker:
To not be a threat and to limit the interaction so they feel like they are safe with their space and their time.

Charlie:
Exactly. And that opener lead to us hanging out with them all night, them loving us and a girl actually I remember her saying to me “this was so nice to actually have a real conversation with somebody because most guys I talk to just talk about themselves and you just kept asking about me. And we had a real dialogue”. I was thinking in my head.

Tucker:
Sounds like you on this podcast, talking about yourself.

Charlie:
Sorry Tucker, let’s talk about you for a while. But I remember thinking it’s so funny because to me it was kind of a one side conversation where I was puling information out of you. Not trying to extract or anything just like focusing on only asking her questions but I was just genuinely interested in her, what she was about and who she was and because of that, it’s just the fact that the longer you let somebody talk about themselves and the more you ask about them, the more likely they are to like you.

Tucker:
Yes.

Charlie:
Especially if you kind of gauge how they are responding to you, if they are leaning in, they are perking up, if their eyes are kind of lighting up,

Tucker:
If you read social signals.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
You are way ahead of most guys. Reading a social signal, what do you mean? I just want to get laid,

Charlie:
The funny part was we actually almost actually lost them that night because this guy came sat down at our table and he’s like “hey do you guys know any good restaurants around here?” and just proceeded to stay there just like kind of grilling them and they got up all as a group and went to the bathroom.

Tucker:
To get away from that douche.

Charlie:
From him. Yeah,

Tucker:
Did you not make fun of that dude in front of them? I would’ve shredded that dude.

Charlie:
Well he came down, he asked that question and then I turned to my friend and we started talking because I thought he was just asking that and they all of a sudden left, I was like “what’s going on?”

Tucker:
Yeah, you should’ve been like “so dude, tell us more about you. What are your hopes and dreams in life. That’s why we all came to this bar, to listen to you. Tell me more about yourself”.

Charlie:
As far as I knew he wasn’t really talking about himself.

Tucker:
Yeah.

Charlie:
I agree. You kind of can give people, you can tease them in a light way that makes it clear like–

Tucker:
Whatever they want push it all the way to its extreme, “oh I agree”, “yeah get out my way” “oh yeah I should get out of your way and I should give you my money and here’s the keys to my car and then come over to my house and fuck my sister too, what else do you want? I owe you everything dude”.

Charlie:
At this point you just fly across the bar and punch him in the face.

Tucker:
That’s what they do. You do that and everyone’s laughing and the dude freaks out wants to fight you.

Charlie:
Or I’ve heard you say where you are like “there’s this magical device that you have in your pocket that tells you what restaurants in the area are good”.

Tucker:
Oh that’s fun. Actually my favorite is “if only I had this device that was connected to a network of information that can give me the things I look for if I search for them, maybe someone will invent that someday. Oh it’s 2014.

Charlie:
Check your pocket.

Tucker:
Yeah exactly

Charlie:
Let me see. Where do I go from here?

Tucker:
Go to your next favorite story

Charlie:
Okay.

Tucker:
We don’t need to flow on this Charlie, you are good enough you can pick up a random thread.

Charlie:
I interrupted the original story oh okay, this was the one thing I wanted to say about being interested. I think you can be a nerd about stuff if you own it,

Tucker:
Oh absolutely.

Charlie:
It’s not over the top ridiculous,

Tucker:
It’s who you are.

Charlie:
And so my previous girlfriend she said she knew she was going to sleep with me when she heard me talk about Carl Sagan’s Cosmos so enthusiastically.

Tucker:
If a girl likes a smart dude and you can talk about Cosmos, you are a smart dude.

Charlie:
And she’s really smart too.

Tucker:
No she is…I’ve had a ton of girls wants to sleep with me because I’m smart. Especially because they didn’t expect me to be smart and when I was smart,

Charlie:
Really?

Tucker:
Oh yeah. Well that’s more like, girls who knew me from–

Charlie:
You are a smart guy, it’s pretty clear from your writing that you’re a smart guy.

Tucker:
A lot of shits clear that most people don’t get. welcome to life dude.

Charlie:
Interesting. Oh this is another situation I think that feeds nicely into the last one. When I was on Argentina for a while I was staying at a party house called Milhouse.

Tucker:
And so many jokes. Everything’s coming up Milhouse.

Charlie:
I love all the simpsons references, but Milhouse was so much fun if you are in your early 20s. It’s a blast.

Tucker:
Is this the story about the Brazilians you had to finish Tim Ferriss’ book and the Brazilians walk by and you are like “I want to have sex with you but I can’t because of Tim Ferriss” and you sleep with them all like 2 days later or something.

Charlie:
Not quite, but yes it is.

Tucker:
Did you tell me that story or was that in the last podcast?

Charlie:
It was after the podcast.

Tucker:
Oh my god you haven’t told that story. Well tell the story you want to tell.

Charlie:
Okay. So when I was staying at this hostel while I was down there I was helping Tim Ferriss out with 4 Hour Body and I think it was 6th revision and so I was carrying around the printed manuscript in a cardboard box which was very heavy, it’s a big book. And so I walked to Tim and he was like “dude, you have a deadline. We have to get this final revision into the publisher. I’m sorry you got to get it done tonight”. And it was like I think 10 pm or 11 pm which is when people start gearing up to go out and the only real reason I was really upset. I was cool to do the work.

Tucker:
Because of the Brazilian nurses.

Charlie:
A few hours prior 18 Brazilian nurses had walked in, studying to become nurses.

Tucker:
Sounds like a porn movie that I would write that no one would believe. 18 Brazilian nurses are staying in my hostel.

Charlie:
Stunning, all of them. Like they walked in, all the guys were like “what?” Yeah. It was crazy. I’ve never seen anything like that in my life. And Brazilians are super warm affectionate loving people and they are really fun.

Tucker:
That’s why Tom Brady married one.

Charlie:
So I was like Tim, seriously man is there anything we can do please? And he was like I’m sorry. So before I started working on the book I went downstairs just to see in the lobby they had this dance floor and a bar where everybody kind of got the night started then they would go out to a club and I go down and everybody’s down there. Tons of people were down there all around the walls, the girls are all in the middle huddled together like sheep and they are all wearing these unbelievable tight like

Tucker:
What the fuck.

Charlie:
Low cut cocktail dresses. No one’s talking to them, no one. And I was just looking around and I’m like I think I was 25 at the time and I was surrounded by guys who were like 21, 22. I’m like what’s wrong with these guys. They didn’t have the confidence to talk with them, that’s the explanation. So I just walked up to them and I was like “sorry guys”,

Tucker:
Sorry guys to the hot Brazilian nurses?

Charlie:
I didn’t say sorry, I was like “excuse me guys you all look great”.

Tucker:
You didn’t say sorry guys, you said excuse me guys.

Charlie:
Hey fellas, excuse me ladies.

Tucker:
You didn’t say chicas bonitas or something.

Charlie:
Just said you all look great, you want me to take a picture of you? This is the easiest opener in the world for a group of girls, they all want their picture taken when they’re looking like that and they all want to be,

Tucker:
Unless they are fat girls who want to take selfies from real high up for Facebook.

Charlie:
You do that for skinny girls as well. That’s the way to do it, they all appreciate it when you take the picture and you hold the camera above your head and angle it down because that’s a flattering angle.

Tucker:
It is, or I just take the camera, take a picture of myself and give it back, they love that. Not really, sometimes it is,

Charlie:
I actually love that,

Tucker:
They don’t like it fuck them.

Charlie:
That’s funny.

Tucker:
I do that every time I’ve never taken a picture of girls. I always take the camera and take a picture of myself and then hand it back to them.

Charlie:
That’s really funny, I’m going to use that. So I took a picture and you kind of check is it good, do you want any other, and then you introduce yourself to them and you ask what their story is, and they are like “yeah we are nurses we are in town for a few nights”,

Tucker:
No keep going with the story. Because this is like a heart breaking story with a great redemption.

Charlie:
Yeah. So I was just like, I introduced myself to basically all of them and I was like “I have to stay in tonight”. “Oh you are not going out”, I was like “no I’m sorry” and I’m a devious man so I positioned myself where I was in the hallway working where I knew they had to pass through to get through to their room, I knew at least one of them would come back up and like grab something or whatever. And so I had all my stuff laid out, I was on my laptop and I was just working. And as I was working sure enough a girl came by she was like “aren’t you coming out?”, I was like “no I can’t I have to work” and she’s like “work?” She didn’t really speak fluent English and this was amazing.

Tucker:
Trablho

Charlie:
Yeah, I don’t know. I think it’s Portuguese. This was crazy I couldn’t have planned this myself, I should’ve paid this guy actually, because he came out of nowhere and he was American–

Tucker:
Do you know who Charlie Hoehn is?

Charlie:
Yeah, so this guy started asking, I was like well I’m working on this book cable the four hour body it’s by this guy named Tim Ferriss. He’s like “The author who wrote the four hour work week?” And I was like “yeah”, at this point multiple girls in that group has come up, like 6 or 7 and because one of them spoke English and was translating for the others what I did because they didn’t understand that and this guy was like his eyes lit up and he’s like, “this guy’s very famous”.

Tucker:
You should pay someone for that.

Charlie:
I was like thank you. I don’t know why you are trying to help me out, it was unbelievable. So I was like immediately in with them.

Tucker:
You tell them “ladies tomorrow night I’m all yours”, tonight.

Charlie:
Yeah, I really got to work and then we hung out the next few nights and had a great time and it was a lot of fun and the main thing here is not to like set yourself up to like get in those kinds of situations but I think be a person who does stuff that’s interesting to you and also puts you in a position of like it’s interesting to other people too. It goes such a long way in making you seem like a more attractive person when you are somebody who does stuff that is meaningful to you.

Tucker:
I know of course no doubt, obviously so what other funny stories do you have?

Charlie:
I love the juke box hero story. I can tell a story from the tour as well after that.

Tucker:
Do the juke box hero–

Charlie:
How are we doing on time?

Tucker:
We’ve got plenty of time.

Charlie:
Okay, cool

Tucker:
Keep going.

Charlie:
So the juke box hero was one of my favorite, to be clear nothing happened this night for reasons I’ll get into.

Tucker:
No one cares, what’s the story.

Charlie:
Okay, sorry. All right. So I went to the ad agency that I interned at, they had a Christmas party, they were like all the interns were invited, I didn’t even know how many interns were at the company. I think there were only like 5 or 6. I went and I was the only intern there. There’s hundreds of people there, at least 200. All the people who like founded the company are there, they are old, they are with their families. Open bar. So I go to the bar I’m like I’m just going to get hammered, I don’t really know anyone here, I’m not sitting next to anybody

Tucker:
You’re an intern, you got nothing to lose.

Charlie:
Exactly,

Tucker:
Let it rip

Charlie:
Like whatever, take advantage of it. So I’m down seriously like 10 crown and cokes and it was like a lot.

Tucker:
How old were you?

Charlie:
21, 22. 22 I think.

Tucker:
It’s a lot, it’s a lot of alcohol. Ten shots of crown, is quite a bit,

Charlie:
It’s no joke. So this guy gets on the mic and he goes “all right. Let’s get all the interns up to the front stage”.

Tucker:
So it’s just you.

Charlie:
It’s just me and they are like “we are going to kick off the annual karaoke session, we need all the interns, Charlie Hoehn that means you”

Tucker:
Did you just start sprinting.

Charlie:
I sunk down in my seat.

Tucker:
Oh you should have been like the ultimate warrior!

Charlie:
Here’s what I didn’t, so I discreetly snuck to the side of the room and went to the bathroom and just chilled in a stall and checked my cell phone for a few minutes. And I was going to wait those blows over and they are going to forget about me. I come back and peeking around the curtain they are like “Charlie, there he is, finally”. I was like dammit. Because I’ve never done karaoke.

Tucker:
You got to own it. You got to run out like the ultimate warrior. Just say fuck it.

Charlie:
Yeah that’s exactly what I did.

Tucker:
You are ten crown and cokes in.

Charlie:
I know.

Tucker:
You can’t play the ultimate warrior at that point?

Charlie:
Believe me I had liquid courage enough to flip the switch where I was like “well, this is happening. So I might as well go balls to the wall”.

Tucker:
By the way as a quick aside super important point, you can’t avoid anymore, just fucking embrace, fucking own it. I can see why you don’t do ultimate warrior right away, but the guys see you, you’re ten crown and cokes in you got no where to go, then just fucking own it.

Charlie:
Yeah, which is exactly what I did.

Tucker:
All right.

Charlie:
So I went up and I’ve never done karaoke before in my life. And I hadn’t really done much public speaking so this was pretty intimidating to me. But I had enough alcohol to not really care at the same time. So I go up to the DJ and I’m just like trying to think of songs and the first one that comes to mind is foreigner’s jukebox hero so I said to her–

Tucker:
Oh my god Jason, don’t get us sued but you have to play that song over this clip.

Charlie:
It was such a good Karaoke song. So said I was like so you have foreigners Jukebox Hero, she’s like wait, I have it but I don’t have the words. But I’m like I don’t need the words.

Tucker:
That’s owning it Charlie Hoehn.

Charlie:
Exactly. I don’t need the words because I know all the words to that song and so it starts and I was like, I’m not that great of a singer, I’m just going to destroy this stage,

Tucker:
Own it.

Charlie:
I was the first one to do karaoke that night. So I was like, when it hit the guitar solo I was sliding on the ground I climbed on a table like I had half of the crowd like Eminem style like raising their hands and waving.

Tucker:
Everybody from the 313, put your hands up and follow me.

Charlie:
Everybody’s like what the hell has gotten over me.

Tucker:
Exactly.

Charlie:
And I was screaming into the mic just like “he’s a jukebox hero, stars in his eyes”, I was getting other people to sing and it was so much fun, can I just owned it.

Tucker:
No one sucked your dick that night? How did that not happen? Amazing.

Charlie:
After so I slammed the mike into the ground after it finished because I know the points where the drums come on so I was playing all the instruments and the DJ was like “that was ridiculous I’m not even mad you almost broke the mic”. And then the next person to get up is like well…

Tucker:
Can’t follow that.

Charlie:
Exactly. So I go up to the bar and I’m like a hero people are like, “what?” And these girls come out of nowhere later on and it’s two of them and they are just like super aggressively hitting on me.

Tucker:
Of course you are the star of the night.

Charlie:
They basically, we rode the elevator down and they were like feeling me up, they weren’t very attractive

Tucker:
Whatever dude, ten jack and cokes, you’re riding the star, threesome with ugly girls is fine, I’ve done that many times

Charlie:
Yeah it was I’ve never really experienced anything like that before, but I kind of realize like the power of–

Tucker:
Not giving a fuck,

Charlie:
Owning it and getting a crowd behind you is like,

Tucker:
Oh yes,

Charlie:
Oh such a thrill.

Tucker:
You win the crowd, you win everything.

Charlie:
Oh man you get so much adrenaline it’s just so much fun. So that was,

Tucker:
So like 9 months later you have two really ugly babies.

Charlie:
But that was the first time like girls proposed basically a threesome to me and I just like wasn’t into them plus my boss had like an emotional breakdown that night. Not the girl I referenced earlier, but another one. I was there so it was kind of serious and it was sobering. Anyway it was like,

Tucker:
A brick wall coudn’t stop me from fucking those two girls, but I’m a different person, I have different issues than you Charlie.

Charlie:
Yeah. So that was fun and I think there have been at least a couple of times where I’ve been in that position where I’ve given a speech or something and just had fun. It was just very clear that I was the centre of the room and I kind of owned it and it always has a very positive, it’s very attractive.

Tucker:
And if you can get onstage and be the centre the women love it always. Of any group, a tiny group, ten people

Charlie:
I gave a best man speech recently it was like, the bride of my friend, she was like telling me “I went into the bathroom and girls were talking about how funny your speech was”, if you can be good giving a speech it’s very attractive I think all guys should practice this. It’s easy to practice.

Tucker:
It is, tell the movie story, which story, because there’s like 50 stories you can tell.

Charlie:
Yeah. There are a lot of stories. But the one I was thinking of was the first time that you were like what the hell in Seattle it was the second stop and I left with two girls because I was like “hey man, is it cool if I go back to their place rather than going back to the hotel because I didn’t know the rules” and you are like,

Tucker:
Tell the story, I don’t even remember this.

Charlie:
Okay. We were on the second stop of the “I hope they serve beer in hell” movie tour, each stop you had a gaggle of females that come out.

Tucker:
Because I was centre of attention of course.

Charlie:
Yeah. And my thing was like, I was there to have fun like the rest of the crew.

Tucker:
Do your job and then have fun.

Charlie:
Yeah, just joke around with people and I remember going up to the bar with order and there were two Malibu rum girls there that night who were pretty attractive and one of them,

Tucker:
Trying to remember Seattle, it’s hard for me to remember. Oh my god that was the night. Seattle the girl who like Dave had to carry away because she got so drunk they kicked her out of the cab and all that shit?

Charlie:
Yeah, like an Amy Winehouse looking girl.

Tucker:
Yeah, she was not attractive.

Charlie:
No.

Tucker:
I’m like “Dave I won’t sleep with this girl, please get her away from me” and like, yeah, I remember. I forget who I hooked up with. But I do remember that.

Charlie:
Yeah. It was a weird night. So I remember going up to the bar I had per diem money and just like 10 dollar bills and I go up to the bar to order something and the manager of the Malibu rum girls was there a she was a beautiful girl and there was a menu that she was carrying that just had a picture of Malibu rum cocktails. I was like what is like,

Tucker:
For people who can’t read.

Charlie:
That’s what I said what is like the Denny’s menu for alcoholics.

Tucker:
The chinese menu for alcoholics.

Charlie:
Yeah. And then she, I don’t know if this had anything to do with it or not but the fact that I paid for drinks with like a $100 bill and then I was dancing on the floor with girls who were like trying to grab me to dance with them because they’ve seen I was part of the crew. She was just watching this from the side like “who the hell is this guy?”

Tucker:
I remember this now. She was really hot.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
And then you come up with me, yes I remember this. I was like “what the fuck is going on”.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
Because I think she was hotter than the girl I hooked up with that night. I was like this is not how this should work.

Charlie:
Because she wasn’t there for the movie at all.

Tucker:
She had no idea who I was or anything. Couldn’t give a fuck about me.

Charlie:
Right.

Tucker:
The Asian girl and the blonde girl I remember it now. I remember the bar had a table shuffle board. I remember it. I remember you leaving like “hey dude you cool with me rolling, are we done?” I was like “are they going with you?” like “yeah”,

Charlie:
I remember the look you gave me because you gave me like this fatherly, like.

Tucker:
Shocked, all right good for you.

Charlie:
“All right Charlie, let’s see what you got here” thinking I was going to be with some ridiculous girl and then you looked over and like “what the hell?’ I think you said like “why do you want to go with him, you want to learn about marketing or something like what is wrong with you?”

Tucker:
Do you wanna learn about marketing. That sounds like something I would say. I’m such a dick.

Charlie:
Yeah, it’s really funny. Because we knew each other kind of well at that point but we are still getting to know each other and I was like, I wonder if he’s going to be mad about this because.

Tucker:
I could never be mad about pussy, never. No I do. I’m pretty confident you hooked up with at least one of those girls. Now both were hotter than whoever I was talking to at least at the time, I don’t remember who I hooked up with that night but at least it was hotter than the girl I was talking at the time and I was like “this is not how this works”.

Charlie:
Then that girl and I ended up kind of staying in touch, and seeing each other. Like she flew me out to Seattle.

Tucker:
Which one the Asian or the blond?

Charlie:
The Asian girl.

Tucker:
Yeah, I think she was the hotter of the two right?

Charlie:
Yeah. We ended up seeing each other for a while and then it ended up not working.

Tucker:
Right. Because she lives in Seattle and is the Malibu manager.

Charlie:
Yeah. It was fun.

Tucker:
Oh god I’d forgotten about that night.

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
See that’s part of the reason why guys are like “why don’t you tell more embarrassing stories” and I’m like “I literally don’t remember”.

Charlie:
Well I’ve been talking my ear off, do you have any come to mind?

Tucker:
No, my embarrassing stories are so painful that I push them out of my mind or they are in my books or they are so painful I pushed them out of mind, like if someone reminded me like “oh yeah I forgot”, They are not like repressed. More like there are things that don’t register to me as embarrassing. There’s plenty of things I’ve done, like Erin or somebody like that could tell you 50 stories that most people will think are mortifyingly embarrassing and I’m like “oh yeah that’s kind of funny, I forgot about that” or “that is pretty bad”

Charlie:
It’s true. I’ve known you for a long time and I know you well. A lot of stuff that people are like, this was one of the craziest things I’ve ever been a part of, Tucker was there you were like, “oh yeah”

Tucker:
I forgot about that.

Charlie:
Because your life has been a blender of chaos.

Tucker:
From since I was like a year old.

Charlie:
It really is true. But when I was talking earlier about like I’ve had several moments where I thought ‘should I kiss this girl.’ Like you are a pretty bold confident person. But did you ever go through a phase where you were hesitant to make a move and you felt.

Tucker:
Of course a million times. Yeah of course like dude I can’t sit here and think of like oh yeah, June 13th 1998.

Charlie:
I don’t know the dates either

Tucker:
But I’m just saying like it’s hard for me to remember like exact times of, a different dude wrot an e-mail who’s like my bullshit radar went off in the Charlie Hoehn podcast you said that Geoff and I have been through everything and if you’ve had a problem, we’ve had the problem he’s like “have you had a problem with ED like erectile dysfunction. Have you had a problem with being really obese and losing weight?”

Charlie:
Well you had really low testosterone.

Tucker:
Right. But I still fucked. Dude I have a lot of problems. Erectile dysfunctions I can think of like one or two times in my life I couldn’t get it up and both of those times I think I was really drunk, for real dude. I don’t mean this braggingly, it’s just like one of those things I don’t ever have a problem with that in fact I have the opposite of problems, I’m like oh we are in a meeting and we are talking about what marketing thrust we are going to put, and I’m like I got hard because I thought about thrusting. That’s the problem. Instead of erectile dysfunction I’ve had like overactive erectile —

Charlie:
Penetrate this market.

Tucker:
Yes, I like penetration that’s good. Now I have the opposite problem. But really I don’t mean that braggingly, just like I just don’t have that problem but he mentioned like a bunch of things. I was like, he’s right, technically he’s totally right. There are a huge swath of problems like I don’t know what’s like to be black in America. There a lot of things I don’t know about what it’s like. But my point was, I don’t mean literally every fucking possible problem a guy could have. I mean all the normal emotional reactions. I’ve been scared, insecure, afraid, nervous, anxious and like really deeply, all the normal emotions that every human being has, I’ve had all those to the nth degree I still do at times you know, like fuck. I fear nothing reasonable I say I fear no man I mean like in sort of MMA marine sense. Like Rancy Couture could whip my ass, I’m not afraid of him, I know what’s going to happen if we fight. I’m not afraid. I’m going to lose. But I’m not afraid right. Because once you’ve been through that fire you know you are not afraid. This is my fate, but I’m not afraid. It’s a different thing. But like, I’m in a relationship right now, there’s a million things that happen in this that are very anxiety producing in me or I’m afraid is not the right word, that are difficult for me to manage. Like it’s hard for me to be vulnerable with Veronica.

Charlie:
Yeah. Your challenges I think are very similar to what a lot of guys go through, but they struggle with more basic level “how do I get over this hump of like asking this girl out”, you don’t have a problem with that.

Tucker:
I don’t know, I used to.

Charlie:
Right. You struggled with stuff that everybody struggles with which is how do I pull of the mask and show, not the mask but how do I show these deeper parts of me that are scary for me to talk about and reveal.

Tucker:
I mean like Veronica and I are basically in a situation now where it’s like, it feels weird to say my girlfriend. Because at this point we are basically married and you know why we didn’t get engaged. There’s a very specific reason, I’m not going to talk about it in the podcast, it’s a good reason. The listeners will find out eventually and it’s really great. But we would basically be engaged but now because of the situation it’s like I don’t even know how to, it’s a weird situation. It’s really hard for me to, it’s not that I don’t love her or care about her or whatever. It’s just hard for me there are plenty of emotional steps in this relationship that I guess it boils down to I’m afraid of is really no other , I could say other descriptors but that’s really what it boils down to. Here’s the end point. Every guy things they are the only one who’s afraid, they are the only one who’s anxious or the only one who’s nervous, the only one who thinks they fail the moments they come through in, that they are the only one who thinks they are not good enough for the hot girl, and the reality is we all think this. And I have thought this a million times in my life. Every guy has. The only real difference between me and the guy who’s listening to this who hasn’t is age, experience and the determination to push through that, that fear. That’s really the only difference. Like a lot of guys look at me, it’s so funny man, I’ve been doing this for over 10 years and you’d think I’d be used to it but there’s still a part of me, I still think of myself like I am who I am, okay like famous, with these books, sold these millions of books movie made about my life whatever. I forget what I thought about famous dudes when I was 22. Although a part of me in a way thought I’m just as good as them, that was sort of the arrogant narcissistic part.

Charlie:
That actually helped you get to that point.

Tucker:
Absolutely. But there was another part of me that was like, “I don’t have anything in common with them”. They are so different and it was weird. I had a weird dynamic. Like on one hand I was like “you are no better than me, I can do all this”. Which was like ridiculous puffery. It was based on no facts. Just literally narcissistic puffering. Nothing else, grandiosity, that’s it, and on the other hand there was the deep insecurity it was like I’m never going to do that or that’s not who I am I’m not good enough or whatever. I didn’t fake my way into it because I do have one part of me that’s like I’m going to work with this and I’m going to actually look at the results or I’m going to have my goal and measure my goal against my results and change, I’m willing to actually take feedback and change and learn and most people aren’t, like they have their image of themselves and they want to protect that image no matter what. That’s one thing I do differently than most people but I have all the same insecurities, all the same fears. All the same issue. Everyone does dude, that’s the thing. I try to say this to guys, they don’t believe me. It doesn’t even get to their head. They are like “how could you have ever been me?” I’m like “all of us were you once”. When I was whatever 15, I don’t know who the cool guy, the cool guy was like Tom Selleck right? And to a 20 year old now they don’t know who the fuck Tom Selleck is, they are like what the fuck are you talking about?

Charlie:
Three men and a baby.

Tucker:
If they know that’s what they know, oh the guy from Chicago Blue or whatever right. I’m like no dude that was Magnum PI, he drove a Ferrari in Hawaii and fucked all the hot girls who came for vacation. They are like “what are you talking about”. And all they know because they didn’t grow up with anything else. It’s hard for me to even put in my brain in times that they see me that way. Don’t get me wrong, I’m really confident, I know I’ve done great shit but on the other hand I know where I came from, I know what I had to go through to get here. And so I know my shit stinks like everyone else’s. Just like everyone’s shit stinks.

Charlie:
To tie back into the cosmos. We are all made of the same star stuff.

Tucker:
True. Literally.

Charlie:
Yes, literally. We are all the exact same basically. 99.9%. I used to put pressure on myself in my mind if I would see a really attractive girl in public I should, I’ll forever regret this opportunity if I don’t go talk to this person, like when I was younger.

Tucker:
I don’t forever regret anything.

Charlie:
In my mind I was like maybe that could be my next girlfriend, my next ex-girlfriend. Maybe if I put myself out there and go talk to her. So I would put that internal pressure on myself until finally I started doing it and there were a lot of clumsy interactions that didn’t go so well but now I’m at a point where I’ll just do it, not really give any thought to it, there’s no real pressure if I do it or don’t do it.

Tucker:
That’s why it works. You understand the difference right?

Charlie:
Yeah.

Tucker:
Because, you are not,

Charlie:
Before I was focused on the outcome.

Tucker:
Right. You were focused on her being your girlfriend, you are focused on the result. Now you don’t think about any result. You just think about the conversation.

Charlie:
And I would beat myself up if I didn’t do it, like oh man I’m such a failure, I didn’t do it.

Tucker:
Because you didn’t get the outcome.

Charlie:
I didn’t put myself out there at all. Like I didn’t try. Like a part of me wanted to do it and I was too scared to do it, which I think is totally normal. Especially if you don’t know,

Tucker:
Well dude, approaching a random girl on the street, Geoff and I says all the time that is not the right way to go about mating with women. It’s not wrong, but it’s not what you should expect from yourself. If you are a very outgoing guy, and you are confident, you are good at conversation and you want to approach women, random women you don’t know in random situations. It’s not bad, it’s totally fine. There are ways you can do it that work really well. I would say that’s appropriate for no more than 20% of guys. Vast majority of dudes I would say don’t do that. I’m not saying you can’t or you shouldn’t. I’m saying if that makes you uncomfortable, don’t feel like you need to do it.

Charlie:
And I think it’s just don’t go out during the day or night really with the intent of alright, I’m going to talk to X number of girls.

Tucker:
You are talking about different things though. Dude some of the most successful guys I know with women have never picked up a random woman they didn’t know. Ever.

Charlie:
I know.

Tucker:
I’m really fucking good at doing that and I’m really good at dealing with women I know, I can do both. Most guys who are super successful with women are actually not good at picking up random women.

Charlie:
Because it’s hard.

Tucker:
It’s not just hard, it requires a weird sort of mindset. Most guys I know who sleep with tons and tons of women all sleep with women they meet through their social groups. In various different ways. And there’s a million permutations of that.

Charlie:
It’s the easiest way to do it by far, you’ve already being vouched for you’re in, you are safe.

Tucker:
We talk about that over and over with guys. We haven’t done the podcast yet, we are not going to do a series of podcast on how to approach and interact with women you don’t know, but everything we talked about so far is developing your skills and attributes, displaying those in social situations where women feel safe and comfortable with you because they know you or there’s a reason for them to talk to you. Bars and night clubs or random situations are basically the worst situation for guys. They are the worst. Because you have the highest initial hurdles to overcome. Absolutely doable, it’s really fucking hard. It’s really hard and for most guys it’s almost like it’s putting the highest level of difficulty on them at the beginning and they fail a bunch, and they take that failure as a reflection of who they are a the person and it cripples them and–

Charlie:
Yeah, they’re like this is the only way I can meet girls

Tucker:
I failed 20 times, I must be a failure. Which is, I’ve seen it so many times. In fact you — it wasn’t I failed I’m a failure, it’s I’m only this good. You have very limiting beliefs on yourself early on in your life and so you missed all these stories over two podcasts almost. Are like you missing out on opportunities where girls literally wanted to sleep with you because you are an attractive, fun, interesting guy but you thought they would never like me so I have to be misreading these clear and obvious signals of interest that we’ve all laughed at for 2 hours.

Charlie:
Right. Yeah. It’s true. Totally true. Part of the way I overcame that in my head was what are the areas I think like would prevent a girl from actually liking me and focusing on those. Becoming the person that I was proud to be basically. Doing work and doing activities. Putting myself out there in situations. Becoming a person that I was confident and proud of. So if I say yeah I do this, yeah I’ve done that.

Tucker:
So before a certain age you didn’t feel you’ve done enough to be proud of yourself or confident or whatever?

Charlie:
Relatively speaking I was comparing myself to some very successful high achievers.

Tucker:
And that was the part of the problem.

Charlie:
I’m in the shadow of these giants and.

Tucker:
You can be real tall and be in the shadow of giants and not realize how tall you are.

Charlie:
Precisely. So until I had basically done a number of things, that’s a cool thing that I have in my cap so to speak. It was not going out and sleeping with a bunch of girls, it was like being a person that I was proud to be.

Tucker:
We just did a Q&A about confidence, and thats– demonstrated performance, thats — you want to build confidence? Everyone’s like fake it until you make it, but that’s actually not good advice. It can work for certain people but it’s actually not good advice. Best advice is to do shit that make you proud of yourself and then you’ll be confident.

Charlie:
Totally. And you don’t have to go out and become an author.

Tucker:
That’s ridiculous.

Charlie:
It’s terrible that people get into it for status reasons. You can be a handy man and own it. Like you said earlier if you own it, that’s attractive if you are proud of it. And you do great work or you are this person that does–.

Tucker:
Well think of the type of the quit sort of cowboys right. Think about what a cowboy does. A cowboy herds cattle on a horse. This is not a skill fucking job, but the archetype is that they are confident because they do something important that matters. That they love and they are good and they commit themselves to.

Charlie:
Right. So if you are thinking–

Tucker:
What’s difference between that and an electrician? Electrician in my mind has a way more skilled job and does something way more important but it’s been commodified as a job and there’s not imagery with it that makes it seem sexy and amazing. Even though it’s way better in almost every way than a cowboy.

Charlie:
When you love what you do you do radiate that outward that you love yourself. And so it’s much easier for you to love other people. You empathize with them on a deeper level, you know that their struggles that they are going through if they are living a life that’s not catering to them.

Tucker:
That’s like the sneaky thing we are trying to teach guys in Mating Grounds. We are actually teaching them far less about women and far more about themselves because teaching them how to be better versions of themselves is what gets them women.