Pulling the Plug ??

the straight foward answer would be no, because only God has the power to take away a persons life. but think about it.. if it werent for the machine, the person wouldnt be alive.. so if that person lived in a previous time.. they would be dead. and since they are only being kept alive with a machine isnt it possible that theyre spirit is no longer dwelling in their body, but their bodies are still functioning... more as robots than human beings ??

& if the doctors want to pull the plug then that means there is no hope [ except for miracles ofcourse ] .. but what if they do pull the plug. ? if God wanted that person to live He would do it before they pull the plugs out .. right ? God does not make mistakes.

hmm did i make any sence ? if i didnt please ask me to clarify. ANSWERS PLEASE :D .

Comments

That is a very good question, i think about it too, and i think that you are probably right, if God wanted to keep the person alive, he would, do it even if the plug was pulled, i think that only if there is no physical hope of recovery, and a substantial amount of time was waited for any sign of improvement, then and only then would it be an option to "pull the plug" i think they call it medically a "vegetative state" where the mind is already gone, but the body still lives, it's really a horrible existence

I have a story to share. . . My aunt was on life support with no chance of recovery (I think). the day when our family and hers was supposed to go to the hospital to decide whether to keep her on it or "pull the plug", God took her. She passed away that day really early in the morning so that her family wouldn't have to make the decision.. . .God works in miraculous ways.

yeah my friends grandpa was on life support & they decided to pulll the plug straight away coz they knew he wouldnt want to liive as a 'vegetable'.. but recently my aunt was also on life support && her family were b e g g i n g the doctors to keep her plugged. they were hoping for a miracle. thats why i posted this up here.. i dont know why they couldnt just accept it. i guess its coz they cudnt bear losing her .. pray that they accept Gods will. & hopefully that will take a bit of the pain away...

Yes God did create nuclear weapons & guns and all other destructive things. but he did not create them for evil.. if you want to know why He made these things go ask Him lol.. but absolutely NOTHING happens without the permission of God.

& He wouldn't something as serious as death not go according to plan.. so i guess i just answered my own question. you keep them there for as long as the doctors let you, and the rest is up to God.

hmm ii heard a sermon that mentioned this. It was by Fr Anthony Messeh.. i cant find it right now sorry.. but i will keep looking. what he said was exactly what i did, that God owns all things.. even those destructive things like guns..

From the religious standpoint, death is the separation of the soul (the spirit) from the body. God created man from dust and gave him the breath of life. When the spirit returns to God, the dust also returns to dust, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" (Genesis 2:7).

When God breathed the breath of life into Adam, He gave him life, and Adam became a living being able to understand, feel, move, breathe, and have all the organs function. Death means that he returns to dust, "For dust you are and to dust you shall return" (Genesis 3:19), which means that life stops when the spirit returns to God.

Since the spirit is invisible, it is difficult to determine when the spirit enters or leaves the body. Yet, this can be determined by the factors revealing its presence. Absence of the aspects of life is evidence of the separation of the spirit from the body. In man these aspects of life depend on brain activity.

The living human body is not merely a group of organs functioning, but they must function harmoniously and in order; they are all dependent on a person’s very existence. Actually, what makes the organs function harmoniously is the brain. Although some organs may continue to function temporarily after brain death such as the heart or some muscles, yet they do that for a short period of time and without harmony.

For example, a person’s head maybe severed from his body and the heart may continue to beat or muscles may move, yet the person is considered dead at the moment the head was severed and not after that. 0Therefore, brain death is considered by some to be "physiological decapitation".

Determining death by cessation of all brain functions resulting from damage of all brain cells is acceptable religiously for the following reasons:

1. Cessation of brain functions is accompanied by cessation of all aspects of life in a human, which means that the breath of life (the spirit), which God has given man, has departed and he is no longer a living being.

2. Following brain death, the continuation of some aspects of life such as muscle movement or heartbeat, is only very temporary and does not change any of the aspects of life for the human being.

3. Placing a patient on life support following brain death in order to continue the heartbeat and breathing is an artificial process, which does not have a real effect on human life. Instead, it places the family under emotional and financial burdens. Although it is different from mummification, yet the idea is similar. In mummification, the corpse is preserved to avoid decomposition resulting from natural death. The corpse maintains its outward appearance of a living being for hundreds or thousands of years, but this does not change the fact that it is a corpse of a dead person.

Considering the total cessation of all brain functions as an indication of death helps in the following cases:

1. Comatose patients who are placed on life support. They may continue in the coma for days or weeks without any significant improvement. In such cases, physicians pose to the patients’ families the difficult decision of withdrawing life support. With a clear conscious, we can say that as long as there is definite evidence of complete cessation of all brain functions, then life support should be withdrawn from the patient, whose spirit has departed from him.

2. Using brain death as criteria for death opens the door for organ transplants of those recently deceased before decomposition of the organs occurs.

1. Comatose patients who are placed on life support. They may continue in the coma for days or weeks without any significant improvement. In such cases, physicians pose to the patients’ families the difficult decision of withdrawing life support. With a clear conscious, we can say that as long as there is definite evidence of complete cessation of all brain functions, then life support should be withdrawn from the patient, whose spirit has departed from him.

well then what do u say for those people who have come out of comas after as many as 15 or 20 years? huh? how can u b sure that the spirit has departed from someone. are you saying that in cases of comatosed patients who have recovered after many years their spirit departed them then returned, or never departed and in which case life support should b continued????

are you a physician? - in fact i saw a program on television known as the news - in which a case where a man was in a coma (that was the term they used) for about 15-20 yrs. in fact a mere Google search with the term "coma AND years" will reveal to you many cases which i suggest you read in order to b more aware and hence less ignorant.

however i wish 2 be proven wrong so pls provide evidence

my word is evidence. where is your medical proof that it is impossible?

I think u may be confusing

iam not confused!

Moreover as we said if there is clear evidence of all brain death, then termination of life support is allowed by the church!!!!!!!

you have merely repeated yourself without addressing my question at all.

if u care to read the question more carefully and perhaps this time shift your focus from crticism to answering the question, that is if u truly have an asnwer - cause i think ur reply reflects the fact that you can not answer the question!

sarcasm is neither beneficial nor a good way to strenghten any argument - i suggest u analyse ur style - or lack of!

As i said where is ur evidence..........u tell me go and look at google........fantastic i did.......no one has come out of a coma after that lenghth of time...however again i wish to be proven wrong......so find me exact details.

Think about it..........leaving science and logic for now......What if your dad/mom/most spcial person to you was on that machine (ba3ed le shar ya3ni)....but really would u agree about pulling the plug? ONE THING I KNOW INSIDE MY HEART IS THAT I WILL NEVER GIVE UP.........until god recieves the person's soul.. Then at that moment when the person dies, I will know that i will never have to live with regret that i did all i can. Because what if we pulled the plug out and ther person died, We would live with regret all of our lives saying what if we stayed another day/hour/month maybe he could have healed (miraclously).......See i wouldn't take the chance to lose anyone close to me when there is always hope. So for me I never/will never agree on pulling the plug when there is always a ear listening to me called GOD which gives us hope.I hope i made senseP.S: I was afraid to give out my opinion cause from some of the posts.......well........god forgive me........but...i don't know how to put it into words just know that i was scared to put this post on here from how some people treated others.(or maybe i'm not used to american talking :P)God forgive me,EGYPTIANKRKR

In that case it's the australian way ;)oh man...people just need to chill and just provide what they have to say without arguing.

Anyway I agree with egyptiankrkr...most people actually remove life support because ya the doctor said so and in some countries the insurance company will stop paying for that individual after they have been on life support for a certain amount of time.The doctors should know their stuff and maybe they are confident 100% that the brain of that certain individual have stopped but God is able to change that in an instance...who are we to decide when a person dies and doesn't die? I don't know the church position on that issue and it really won't make a big difference to me because in that case (ba3d el shar) I would keep whoever is on life support as long as God want them to be."With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."Matthew 19:26 God raised Lazareth from the dead, healed the sick and overcame the impossible...who are we as sinners to say that this person should die because he has been on life support long enough and have cost us so much money.

in my opnion (which is not that great).. i think the only reason you would pull the plug is when the person is like brain dead.. when he or she has no clue what is going on and there is no hope for that person to live... its sad but if God wants him or her.. he or she is gonna go..

[quote author=one of the many Mina's when he or she has no clue what is going on and there is no hope for that person to live

Saying no hope to me, is like saying there is not God. Also by saying no hope (and I fall into this sin a lot) that means that the bible is lying about (NOT TURE) whatever is impossible with the people is possible with god.....plz correct me.....Don't you think it was impossible to riase the lazziras (sp? :P) {el 3azer} after 3 days according to human'n mind? But was it impossible for God?Please forgive me and pray for me ;D!egyptiankrkrp.s.: i could be totally wrong....i don't know...be patient with me i'm still learning and growing in the spritual life.

[quote author=hardyakka link=board=1;threadid=4491;start=15#msg62370 date=1161612455]I think u may be confusing comas with individuals in a "vegetative state". These people r not in a coma and can not be classified as brain dead. but rather they r awake without awareness.

the original question was not about people in comas or people in a vegetative state. to be on life support you may be 'brain dead' but that is not always the case.. and although i did not mention it, it was not what i was referring to. But you have answered it, a person whose brain is dead is DEAD. now lets move onto those who ARENT brain dead.

u say that a person who falls in a coma - is braindead and one can "pull the plug". so according to your answer the spirit has departed them at that very instant.

ok now got that?

next

are you saying that in cases of comatosed patients who have recovered after many years their spirit departed them then returned, or never departed and in which case life support should b continued????

now lets assume that a person is in a coma for a week (i think this may help u get over the hurdle and therefore understand the question!) and after this week recovers.

are you saying that the spirit leaves them and then returns in a week? or are we to assume that the spirit never left them?

SO the essence of the question is how can one b sure that the spirit has left anyone?????

ok now to address egyptiankrkr

i quite agree with your comments and as Christians we are always taught to have faith in Christ. i especially like the example of Lazarus which shows us that there is nothing which is impossible for God. we need to realise that the Bible is not just history and that its contents are still relevant today and also a message from God that we should never give up.

oh man...people just need to chill and just provide what they have to say without arguing.

Cant say much bout ur style either!!!!

i am not about to start engaging in slanging match - im sure u do not wish to take me on either!

hmmm - what r u implying -- lets see u dont even know me so how can u say as usual?

u have rambled on enough kristina123.......and have come 2 know avail.......u say uve understood what i have said but i think u havent read what ive written.

in fact my question was directly from ur comments and was completely valid.

if this is what happens when one asks a valid question, that is they are attacked, then i really dont want to post no more.

u know its really hard to explain something to someone who is so set in their own ways and wont even consider others questions -- how will u survive in society? whats more dissmissing people as u have is something which is completely unacceptable by anyones standards.

i will go ask someone reliable to answer my question as i do not wish to discuss this further with the likes of u.

The likes of "him/her" and us are your brothers and sisters in Christ. I don't really get why you like to make people feel that they have knowledge whatsoever. hardyakka said what he/she has to say, just accept people's words without making them feel that all their words are nothing. I can also get where the "usual" that hardyakka mentioned came from, you really keep on doing that in all your posts argue with people just for the sake of arguments. I am really sure that you will pick every quote from my post and start making a big argument about it, but I really don't care because someone just have to tell you what you are doing. As it appears you can't realize how you are because if you do you would have changed by now but appreantly you didn't.

ahhh guys lets stop the fights.. marianne87 it may sound like kristina123 is talking in a rude or arrogant way etc etc. but she isn't its all out of good intentions trust me bcoz shes an awesome person ;) n im 150% sure that all she is saying is not in a stern or stubborn voice but she is saying it all in a joking manner.. please forgive her if u think otherwise.. :) sry if ive offended ne1 but lets consider each others feelings over here :)

FROG I don't know kristina and I don't think she is a bad person at all or anything. I mean I can't judge..God only knows that every one has his own faults to worry about. I am just saying there is certain words that shouldn't be said, it doesn't sound right and it might hurt other people's feelings. When we say something in this forum, it's a representative of who we are, that we are not just robots behind a computer screen, we are human beings who have feelings, opnions and most of all we have respect for each other. Again I am not judging, so forgive me kristina or anyone else who is offended by this.