HVAC-Talk site will be slow for the next few days. It's normal site/server maintenance. Thx -Dad

Welcome to HVAC-Talk.com, a non-DIY site and the ultimate Source for HVAC Information & Knowledge Sharing for the industry professional! Here you can join over 150,000 HVAC Professionals & enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to HVAC/R. You are currently viewing as a NON-REGISTERED guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register; for a free account. As a registered Guest you will be able to:

Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts.

Small mom and pop stores do not hire many employees, and certainly don't pay any better than Walmart. In fact, many national retailers only pay minimum wages. Why are the rest of these retailers not under attack? Because Walmart is the largest company that employs the most Americans and the Socialist labor organizations want to latch onto Walmart in order to suck the life out of it like they have done with so many other companies.

How many people who now shop at Walmart are going to continue to shop at Walmart if the prices go up because labor costs increase?

The union bosses do not care... all they care is to rope in the suckers who think they will get them something (greed as usual is the problem). If the union interests DESTROY Walmart... they will just go after whomever takes Walmart's place.

IMO it is the American people who are to blame (if there is such a thing). Nobody wants quality anymore, they just what cheap.
My brother suggested the average American consumer has this idea any time someone does them wrong, the govt will fix it... so all they have to do is shop the cheapest price.

This reminds me of a former lady-friend; She would buy a $10 blouse at Walmart because it was cheap... then wear it out in 6 mos and buy another one for another $10. I tried to get her to understand that a $15 blouse at Target that lasted well over a year was better value... that was simply above her mental capacity. Then she would complain endlessly about anyone with more $$$ than she had... yet she would NOT put out any effort to better her skills for a better job. Shame, the lady was SMART... but a combination of being lazy, proud (that insecure form of pride), and greed destroyed her ability to live at her full potential.

Small mom and pop stores do not hire many employees, and certainly don't pay any better than Walmart.

This is primarily because stores like Target, Wal Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, and K-Mart are never more than 20 miles from each other... How the hell is the "little guy" supposed to compete? It's the Rockefeller, Carnegie and J.P. Morgan's all over again, just buy out all the little guys and you corner the market. The mom and pop shops are what make this country great, not the giant, non personal big box stores. I personally intentionally pay a little more to frequent some of the smaller stores in my neighborhood. They know me by name. The extra 4 or 5% is literally nothing and it makes me feel better doing it.

Originally Posted by RoBoTeq

In fact, many national retailers only pay minimum wages. Why are the rest of these retailers not under attack?

Because they are impersonal about it, preventing someone from working full time is IMHO a crime, especially when there is no reason for it other than profit. Many of these folks have to work more than one job to keep the ends close together....

Originally Posted by RoBoTeq

Because Walmart is the largest company that employs the most Americans and the Socialist labor organizations want to latch onto Walmart in order to suck the life out of it like they have done with so many other companies.

No, it's because of the practices they use are morally WRONG. Profits before people.

Originally Posted by RoBoTeq

How many people who now shop at Walmart are going to continue to shop at Walmart if the prices go up because labor costs increase?

Who cares? They have a store every 20 miles......... You really don't have a problem with that do you?

Your thinking is skewed........

My dad owned and operated an auto parts store and machine shop for just over 30 years, privately owned and operated, one store.

He says once the Auto Zones, the O'Reily's, Pep Boys started popping out stores like a Pez dispenser, there was no way he could continue to be even remotely profitable. Add to that the Internet sales and it was all he could do to sell the store for virtually nothing.

I am not saying that a unionizing is necessary, but it's happening because these people are abusers of the system.

Just my opinion..... No offense meant.

GT

If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

I really did try to avoid this thread.... Now I find myself getting more ticked off by the minute.

I owned a small boat shop that serviced family type boats, some commercial fishing boats and sold parts and accessories, it was a job I knew very well and had done it for many years.

People used to literally walk in the door, pick up something like a ski vest and say "I can buy this a bunch cheaper at Wal Mart", but say it like I was trying to screw them... I would tell them "no, you actually can't, the one you are holding is made in America by Americans (was an HO Sports which at the time was made here) the one at Wal Mart was made in a third world country by children and shipped over here virtually duty free, but knock yourself out".

Same thing with service, people would try to get the Wal Mart price on everything, they just don't understand that they buy 10,000 of the same thing I buy a dozen of...

You say what you want about "free enterprise", but this country is going nowhere fast in it's current direction.

I will personally never set foot in a Wal Mart.

Gotta avoid this thread now, just to get my blood pressure back to normal.

GT

If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

Even with all of the people they hire....is it worth making American workers compete with foreign wages?

You guys might see it differently but I don't see that as being a good trade.

Many folks just don't care that much for quality versus having the ability to simply be able to buy products. If you only use a hammer once or twice a year to drive a small nail in a wall to hang a picture, do you really need to spend five times as much for a quality hammer?

When it comes to clothing, more people like to buy new clothes more often than they are willing to pay a lot more for quality clothing that will last longer. Clothes go out of style faster than they wear out. I have purchased several inexpensive jackets in my life because I knew I was going to be wearing them in situations that most likely were going to damage them.

So, inexpensive clothing is certainly not a bad thing. We are just not able to produce inexpensive clothing when labor unions are in control of the labor force that produces clothing. Labor needs to be in control of the company in which that labor is supposed to be working for, not under the control of some detached organization that lobbies government officials for protection to have such control over the labor forces for U.S. businesses.

Through labor unions, government has control over labor. This situation has never...EVER...worked out well in any country that has allowed government to control it's labor forces....NEVER!

I worked for Walmart distribution center for a while. Sure you were on production and had to work your ass off, but I do that anyway. Also the starting pay was higher than anything else in the area for an unskilled laborer by a good margin. It may be different in the stores, but I doubt the labor was nearly as intense there. You can always find another job if you don't like the one you have.

I really did try to avoid this thread.... Now I find myself getting more ticked off by the minute.

I owned a small boat shop that serviced family type boats, some commercial fishing boats and sold parts and accessories, it was a job I knew very well and had done it for many years.

People used to literally walk in the door, pick up something like a ski vest and say "I can buy this a bunch cheaper at Wal Mart", but say it like I was trying to screw them... I would tell them "no, you actually can't, the one you are holding is made in America by Americans (was an HO Sports which at the time was made here) the one at Wal Mart was made in a third world country by children and shipped over here virtually duty free, but knock yourself out".

Same thing with service, people would try to get the Wal Mart price on everything, they just don't understand that they buy 10,000 of the same thing I buy a dozen of...

You say what you want about "free enterprise", but this country is going nowhere fast in it's current direction.

I will personally never set foot in a Wal Mart.

Gotta avoid this thread now, just to get my blood pressure back to normal.

GT

I agree with what you are saying about quality. I teach the same prinicipal for HVAC contractors who complain that companies employing marketing tactics taught by organizations such as the Clockwork companies teach are somehow ripping consumers off...they are not! It is a matter of being better at being able to sell better quality, not a matter of preventing lesser quality to be produced.

There is nothing wrong with lesser quality product if that is what the consumer wants to buy. However, under labor organization control of business, even lesser quality products are going to cost the consumer more, and there are going to be less jobs available because it costs more for each person to be employed.

In fact, including groceries, about half of what Walmart sells is produced in the U.S. So, the largest employer of Americans also keeps other Americans employed by selling products produced by Americans.

Let's destroy this American icon like we destroyed the garment industry, by unionizing their labor force....

I have a fiberglass stanley hammer on my work truck, dont know why cause I always use a ball pein or sheet metal hammer if I need a hammer at work.. but its there if I need it..

At home I have some old wood handled hammers.... I like wood handles on hammers....

If you dont have one that somehow got passed down to you I would suggest ebay for an older claw hammer. I have a funky looking japanese claw hammer.....I'll have to see if I can post a pic of that.... and Ill see if I can find my wood handled claw hammer... though it might be at my bro inlaws with some of my other tools.....

Even with all of the people they hire....is it worth making American workers compete with foreign wages?

You guys might see it differently but I don't see that as being a good trade.

Problem is... ANY time time govt messes with the market place... the end result is WORSE than it was before.
Sure what we have today is not ideal... however let the govt at it and it will be screwed up WAAAY worse... and we will not be allowed to fix it.

The market place is not always the BEST solution... however it is the best one we can get.