Nearly half a century after the defeat of the Third Reich, Nazism remains a subject of extensive historical inquiry, general interest, and, alarmingly, a source of inspiration for resurgent fascism in Europe. Goodrick-Clarke's powerful and timely book traces the intellectual roots of Nazism back to a number of influential occult and millenarian sects in the Habsburg Empire during its waning years. These sects combined notions of popular nationalism with an advocacy of Aryan racism and a proclaimed need for German world-rule.

This book provides the first serious account of the way in which Nazism was influenced by powerful millenarian and occult sects that thrived in Germany and Austria almost fifty years before the rise to power of Adolf Hitler.

These millenarian sects (principally the Ariosophists) espoused a mixture of popular nationalism, Aryan racism, and occultism to support their advocacy of German world-rule. Over time their ideas and symbols, filtered through nationalist-racist groups associated with the infant Nazi party, came to exert a strong influence on Himmler's SS.

Goodrick-Clarke carefully outlines the life of Savitri Devi, a true believer who took Nazism beyond politics: she believed that Hitler was an avatar or god come to earth. Born Maximiani Portas to a Greek/Italian father and an English mother, Devi spent her early years in her native France and in Greece, but she was inexorably drawn to India and traveled there at 27. It was not the culture of India that drew Devi, but her belief that India represented the best of racial segregation. Once in India, she became interested in Hinduism and wed the Brahman A.K. Mukherji in a marriage of shared ideals that also happened to bolster her shaky legal status as a resident Nazi sympathizer. The couple worked on behalf of the Axis powers during the late 1930s and early '40s, with Devi claiming that Mukherji put militant nationalist Subhas Chandra Bose in contact with the Japanese authorities. But the most interesting material is on Devi's intellectual life. Sections on Devi's writings about Egyptian pharaoh Akhnaton, about animal rights, or on her belief that Hitler was an avatar, which includes a lengthy examination of the Hindu theory of cyclical history, provide understanding in ways that subsequent lists of her later travels cannot. Settling back in Calcutta in the 1960s, "the aged Aryan Hindu prophetess" became a guiding spirit of the international neo-Nazi movement. Although the writing is stiff and matter-of-fact, Goodrick-Clarke provides plenty of information and insight about this little-known but influential figure.

This comprehensive inquiry examines the disturbing historical and contemporary connections between certain religious cults and Nazi ideology. Goodrick-Clarke (Hitler's Priestess; The Occult Roots of Nazism) begins with a consideration of the origins of American neo-Nazism and ends with a thorough discussion of well-known, current far-right groups: the European skinheads, the Aryan Nations and the World Church of the Creator movement, which inspired the 1999 shooting spree in the Midwest. In between, the author focuses on the intersection between Nazi ideology and religious and cultural oddities, showing, for example, how some Nazi leaders, particularly Heinrich Himmler, were obsessed with esoterica and strange historical justifications for pro-Aryan racial theory. Over the past 75 years, Nazi ideology has been mixed with Hinduism, magic, alchemy and the occult as a rebellion against the status quo. In Nazi Satanism, "the swastika and Third Reich imagery join black candles, skulls and magical pentagrams in a tableau of ritualized transgression." And during the post-WWII era, many fascists saw UFO sightings as an indication that Nazis would come back to rule the world. Throughout, Goodrick-Clarke catalogues the ideologies, histories, personalities and appeals of the groups, most of which have always found young white men to be their most receptive audience. There's little evaluation of the potential that the small, splinter groups now active might have to commit future atrocities, but the author adds to our knowledge of the broad, frightening tentacles of Nazi ideology. Illus.

I was only addressing this particular thread and others here dealing with NS, not the entire board. Being as there are millions of posts here, that is open to interpretation as none of us can read them all, then tally the number of "shots" made by any ideology. And you shouldn't have to "hate to disagree with me." I can take it. You tend to be more fair and objective than a lot of people here from what I've seen. Watch however, the rancor with which those who disagree with me will respond when they do. That's even with me having stated that they'll do so. Germania Magna and PNR88 both can often be extremely snide in dealing with those who disagree with them.

I don't know what are your feelings about the man, but a huge contradiction I see in many who declare themselves both admirers of his and Atheists both, is they don't seem to have any problem with dismissing the myriad of pro-Christian sentiment displayed by him and many in positions of power in the NSDAP as political expediency/pandering of the highest order. As such, in order to try to reconcile their affinity for the parts of NS that appeal to them, they have to pronounce its leaders as little more than disingenuous charlatans rather than to take an objective look at the issue. And as was the main contention of my post, they are not above whether through omission of that which they don't like about the NSDAP or outright deception, using this forum to propagate their idealized and stylized image of what they would like the Third Reich to have really been about. I think the motivation that drives most of them is that they just really like sharp uniforms, NSDAP imagery and how cool swastikas and SS runes look, but cannot stand what they believe Christianity to be about.

So similar to what the Jewish media has done since the war began and continues doing to this day is the appearance of such a presentation, that one can begin to wonder if at least some have an ulterior motive in doing so that is not unlike that of those in the enemy camp. If past performance is indicative of future results, I'm expecting the usual suspects to drag out their favorite "quotes" from their favorite "work" attributed to Hitler, the highly dubious "Table Talks" that so speaks to their itching ears. Regardless of so called heavyweights like David Irving (who it must be noted is also Atheist) stating he believed that book to be genuine, that it was published by a Jewish publishing house after Hitler was long gone and therefore unable to substantiate or refute its veracity is something I'll proffer for all to consider. Also consider that the few quotes from it the Atheist NSers love to trot out and even at times have in their signatures here, again fly in the face of the many statements Hitler made while alive and as a result, we again have that puzzling situation where those claiming to admire the man are seemingly fine with the notion that he was a actually a scheming liar who'd say anything to assuage his people and attain power.

.

I'm not to big on snide remarks unless first attacked. They don't win anyone to the cause. The goal shouldn't be to win the argument, but to shed what light we have or put it out so it can be digested and challenged. I learn way more by being challenged then by folks posting what I agree with. I said I hated to agree with you because your post was well put together and didn't seem to have an nasty tone to it.

Anyone that would deny that Germany has a major Christian influence running through it's country's people would be mistaken in my opinion. There is no way some occultic junk won that many folks over to National Socialism. I personally don't believe Hitler was a Christian in the way my reading of the Bible and about the traditions of the faith. I do believe he understood the importance of it in German culture and was willing to use it and allow it to remain.

On Christians and the subject: I have seen many churches preach on Hitler and the National socialist being involved in the occult and then some will attempt to claim Hitler one of them. It's almost like everyone has something to gain for their faith by taking one side or the other.

The last couple of quotes I have used from Mein Kampf come from the same set of REQUIREMENTS which Hitler specifically considered crucial for the victory of National Socialism. He described these issues as the heart of our ideology. Thus, it is important for every single one of us who calls themselves NS to know these and take them to heart. One issue that is interesting is the one we have been discussing with some of these disturbed krypto communists who call themselves NS (everybody knows who they are).

For the sake of argument, let's assume that these misguided brothers are correct (they are NOT). Let's say that NS is an offspring of some Jew communist like Marx. Here is what Hitler says in point number 12 about NS:

------------------

"12. The future of a movement depends on the devotion, or more correctly, the intolerance of other beliefs that its followers exhibit in defense of it as the only true cause. They must be convinced and enforce the belief that their own cause, as opposed to other similar causes, is the only just cause.

It is a huge mistake to believe that the strength of a movement can be increased by uniting with another similar movement. Growth by merger means an immediate increase in numbers which appears to outside observers that the organization has increased in power and resources. In truth, the organization has simply absorbed germs which will be a source of inner weakness and this will cause suffering later on. No matter what anyone says about the similarity of two movements, such closeness never really exists. If they were truly so similar, there would be only one movement and not two. It doesn't matter where the differences are."

Further down... ( Iam transcribing this from a printed book after all!)

"Movements which have expanded from the union of similar organizations, where each made compromises to achieve the joining, are like plants grown in a hot house. They shoot up quickly, but they lack internal strength and are not substantial enough to stand the test of time or to resist violent storms. The greatness of any powerful organization, which embodies an idea in this world, depends on the absolutely religious fanaticism with which it establishes itself when compared to others. It must be fanatically convinced that it is right and just, and it must be absolutely intolerant of any idea or organization that is counter to its own teaching. If an idea is right and it takes up the sword of battle with this mind-set, it is invincible and any persecution only strengthens it.

The greatness of Christianity was not established through compromise. They had no reason to engage in negotiations of appeasement with those who had roughly similar, ancient philosophical opinions. It was created through unyielding and fanatical declaration and defense of its own teachings."

{all emphasis mine}
--------------------

As you can clearly see, this disturbing trend that we see here, of some people comparing National Socialism with ANY other movement, is an absolute abomination. Associating NS with communism and Marx is disgusting enough, but even if said similarities could be THEORETICALLY argued, the truth remains the same: WE ARE OUR OWN MOVEMENT.

You must thus understand my INTOLERANCE of these comparisons. They are not acceptable in true National Socialism. They are an aberration. Spending any amount of time connecting our cause with ANY other is utter sacrilege and must be expunged. If the lot of you Marxist fools can't see that NS is NOT communistic, after pages upon pages of documentation proving otherwise (it is amazing that this has to be even argued!!!), then you are still refuted by Hitler's Mein Kampf nonetheless.

It is high time to be true NS and revel in our own uniqueness. We are not anything else but National Socialists.

Marx a German Racialist!?!?!?!?!?!?!? He was a damn JEW!!!!!!!!! Anybody who makes this ridiculous and disturbing claim is either INSANE or a JEW himself (in the sense that only Jews claim to be "just like regular Germans"). Now, when it comes to "economic" socialism, you are partially correct. PARTIALLY. Socialism, as Hitler said countless times (and as the quotes that I have already posted prove) was seen as exactly what the term implies: SOCIAL policies. The economic dynamics of a nation and even the political structures were irrelevant.

This is why this has become a waste of time. You attempt to quote Marx's Manifesto, but you obviate everything I have quoted (which you choose to conveniently ignore). In other words, you have chosen to believe nonsense, and in this I can't help you until you open your mind.

His marxist writings had a pro-German undertone, all else is a myth. But because he came from a jewish family tree, he wasn't an Aryan, of course. Yet he was whitish like most Ashkenazi RACIST Jews, who originate from some whitish turkish-asiatic tribe, whereas the brown negroid Semites do not. But still Marx would've opposed Zionism more than the Third Reich in the early 30s. Zionism and the Third Reich

Because Marx didn't want any jewish Nationalism being the self-hating Ashkenazi and anti-swarthy racist he was. So Jack Bernstein is only halfway correct regarding the Marxist / Zionist connection. Kibbutzim is a specific form of Marxian Socialism, but it is pro-Nation like Nazism, Stalinism and pragmatic Fascism, but less hegelian or less totalitarian through imitating democracy (Knesset etc.). And what about Moses Hess, who was a Nationalist, though anti-germanic?

Of course, Himmler changed National Socialism's political stance on Zionism in the 40s and turned pro-Islam.

Some racist Jews in Israel and America, who are proud to be jewish in contrast to the historical Karl Marx, have blond hair and blue eyes through intermarriage with Europeans. Look at jewish Alicia Silverstone etc. They don't look like brown rabbis such as Moses or Jesus etc. (remember that Hitler also used Jesus in some of his speeches, though he didn't believe in Christianity -- and Hitler also STUDIED Karl Marx and Engels like Mussolini and other European Nationalists / Socialists did!) So this discussion is FAR from over. In case you're a "Fascist", you should know that Mussolini was inspired by Lenin, too and so were the national Italian Jews in his fascist party.

Now you'd probably say that National Socialism opposes all Jews because of their "jewish biology" which is not a Nordic one. Except for converted Jews, who have Nordic parents or are at least predominantly aryan as mentioned. I think that's correct, yet we tend to forget "mongrel" Nazi Jews such as Emil Maurice Emil Maurice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and contributors such as Stahl, Lassalle, Gumplowicz, and Rathenau.

Except for Christianity, the National Socialists illegalized as Jewish everything which stems from Jewish authors. The myth that all of Engels writings were burned is false nevertheless. And by the way, I'm not a Jew, I'm of Nordic descent and 100% Hitlerite. I'm SERIOUS! (Just in case you thought I'm not.) 88

You must thus understand my INTOLERANCE of these comparisons. They are not acceptable in true National Socialism. They are an aberration. Spending any amount of time connecting our cause with ANY other is utter sacrilege and must be expunged. If the lot of you Marxist fools can't see that NS is NOT communistic, after pages upon pages of documentation proving otherwise (it is amazing that this has to be even argued!!!), then you are still refuted by Hitler's Mein Kampf nonetheless. It is high time to be true NS and revel in our own uniqueness. We are not anything else but National Socialists.

No one said that National Socialism isn't its own world-view, its own science or materialized racial religion. BUT you keep denying that it WAS also marxist TO A CERTAIN, SPECIFIC DEGREE because it was also SOCIALIST! So simply stop denying it because some things are known better by other comrades, who have studied history.

No one said that National Socialism isn't its own world-view, its own science or materialized racial religion. BUT you keep denying that it WAS also marxist TO A CERTAIN, SPECIFIC DEGREE because it was also SOCIALIST! So simply stop denying it because some things are known better by other comrades, who have studied history.

I have proven already that my knowledge of history is superior to yours (and please don't interpret this as "bragging" on my part). Unlike you, I have actually studied these philosophies (you have proven that you haven't in our exchanges). The fact that you state that by being SOCIALIST you are thus somehow also MARXIST (to ANY degree) proves your ignorance in this matter.

Marx himself, along with his friend Engels, admit this quite clearly in their Manifesto.

YOUR inability to understand this simple historical and ideological fact is where you err. My anger in this matter stems from discovering that there are actually people in this forum, who claim to be NS, who are so muddled by Jewish propaganda that they would make such preposterous and idiotic statements.

Again: MARX and SOCIALISM are NOT one and the same. Marx STOLE the term for his new movement, NOT the other way around.

The last couple of quotes I have used from Mein Kampf come from the same set of REQUIREMENTS which Hitler specifically considered crucial for the victory of National Socialism. He described these issues as the heart of our ideology. Thus, it is important for every single one of us who calls themselves NS to know these and take them to heart. One issue that is interesting is the one we have been discussing with some of these disturbed krypto communists who call themselves NS (everybody knows who they are).

For the sake of argument, let's assume that these misguided brothers are correct (they are NOT). Let's say that NS is an offspring of some Jew communist like Marx. Here is what Hitler says in point number 12 about NS:

------------------

"12. The future of a movement depends on the devotion, or more correctly, the intolerance of other beliefs that its followers exhibit in defense of it as the only true cause. They must be convinced and enforce the belief that their own cause, as opposed to other similar causes, is the only just cause.

It is a huge mistake to believe that the strength of a movement can be increased by uniting with another similar movement. Growth by merger means an immediate increase in numbers which appears to outside observers that the organization has increased in power and resources. In truth, the organization has simply absorbed germs which will be a source of inner weakness and this will cause suffering later on. No matter what anyone says about the similarity of two movements, such closeness never really exists. If they were truly so similar, there would be only one movement and not two. It doesn't matter where the differences are."

Further down... ( Iam transcribing this from a printed book after all!)

"Movements which have expanded from the union of similar organizations, where each made compromises to achieve the joining, are like plants grown in a hot house. They shoot up quickly, but they lack internal strength and are not substantial enough to stand the test of time or to resist violent storms. The greatness of any powerful organization, which embodies an idea in this world, depends on the absolutely religious fanaticism with which it establishes itself when compared to others. It must be fanatically convinced that it is right and just, and it must be absolutely intolerant of any idea or organization that is counter to its own teaching. If an idea is right and it takes up the sword of battle with this mind-set, it is invincible and any persecution only strengthens it.

The greatness of Christianity was not established through compromise. They had no reason to engage in negotiations of appeasement with those who had roughly similar, ancient philosophical opinions. It was created through unyielding and fanatical declaration and defense of its own teachings."

{all emphasis mine}
--------------------

As you can clearly see, this disturbing trend that we see here, of some people comparing National Socialism with ANY other movement, is an absolute abomination. Associating NS with communism and Marx is disgusting enough, but even if said similarities could be THEORETICALLY argued, the truth remains the same: WE ARE OUR OWN MOVEMENT.

You must thus understand my INTOLERANCE of these comparisons. They are not acceptable in true National Socialism. They are an aberration. Spending any amount of time connecting our cause with ANY other is utter sacrilege and must be expunged. If the lot of you Marxist fools can't see that NS is NOT communistic, after pages upon pages of documentation proving otherwise (it is amazing that this has to be even argued!!!), then you are still refuted by Hitler's Mein Kampf nonetheless.

It is high time to be true NS and revel in our own uniqueness. We are not anything else but National Socialists.

I see no problem with Hitler and the like barrowing from other systems since he stated what they were after was something " new. " You can take the good from other systems and add it to a different mix without being like those who started those systems. Our founders took what they liked from Parlamentary government and added or took a way what they thought best ( or at least what they thought would benefit them personally the most )

Unlike America...I think Hitler's movement truely was a middle class movement. How would it have turned out had they won? We can only guess. I'm cynic. I think human nature is to dominate and when given the chance..that's what most leaders will do.

His marxist writings had a pro-German undertone, all else is a myth. But because he came from a jewish family tree, he wasn't an Aryan, of course. Yet he was whitish like most Ashkenazi RACIST Jews, who originate from some whitish turkish-asiatic tribe, whereas the brown negroid Semites do not. But still Marx would've opposed Zionism more than the Third Reich in the early 30s. Zionism and the Third Reich

Because Marx didn't want any jewish Nationalism being the self-hating Ashkenazi and anti-swarthy racist he was. So Jack Bernstein is only halfway correct regarding the Marxist / Zionist connection. Kibbutzim is a specific form of Marxian Socialism, but it is pro-Nation like Nazism, Stalinism and pragmatic Fascism, but less hegelian or less totalitarian through imitating democracy (Knesset etc.). And what about Moses Hess, who was a Nationalist, though anti-germanic?

Of course, Himmler changed National Socialism's political stance on Zionism in the 40s and turned pro-Islam.

Some racist Jews in Israel and America, who are proud to be jewish in contrast to the historical Karl Marx, have blond hair and blue eyes through intermarriage with Europeans. Look at jewish Alicia Silverstone etc. They don't look like brown rabbis such as Moses or Jesus etc. (remember that Hitler also used Jesus in some of his speeches, though he didn't believe in Christianity -- and Hitler also STUDIED Karl Marx and Engels like Mussolini and other European Nationalists / Socialists did!) So this discussion is FAR from over. In case you're a "Fascist", you should know that Mussolini was inspired by Lenin, too and so were the national Italian Jews in his fascist party.

Now you'd probably say that National Socialism opposes all Jews because of their "jewish biology" which is not a Nordic one. Except for converted Jews, who have Nordic parents or are at least predominantly aryan as mentioned. I think that's correct, yet we tend to forget "mongrel" Nazi Jews such as Emil Maurice Emil Maurice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and contributors such as Stahl, Lassalle, Gumplowicz, and Rathenau.

Except for Christianity, the National Socialists illegalized as Jewish everything which stems from Jewish authors. The myth that all of Engels writings were burned is false nevertheless. And by the way, I'm not a Jew, I'm of Nordic descent and 100% Hitlerite. I'm SERIOUS! (Just in case you thought I'm not.) 88

You are making a "Jewish" argument when you try to distinguish the "white jews" from the "brown jews". Hitler was very clear, specifically speaking of the Ashkenazi, that they are ALIEN to our people in EVERY WAY. There is no argument in this, so let's stop the nonsense. Is there racist jews? Of course, there are also self hating Negroes in Harlem, this doesn't men they make good Europeans. The Ashkenazi are the WORSE jews, not the other way around.

Marx was a very UGLY and SEMITIC jew, if there ever was one, so please don't try to turn him Aryan just because you like him and are confused about what socialism really means. You DON'T have to turn jews into aryans for the sake of believing that our socialism is alright. Hitler was NOT a Marxist. PERIOD.

Jerry Seinfeld is also an Ashkenazi and self hating Jew, this doesn't mean he should now join us in our struggle. Marx, just like all Jews, NEVER invent ANYTHING. They steal our inventions, terms, ideologies, etc. and then turn them into a perverted distortion which they then regurgitate back into our culture and claim it as their own. This is what that Hebrew Marx did, and you are buying it stock and barrel.

This goes also for Hebraic monotheism (stolen from Akhenaton), materialism, spirituality, capitalism, socialism, mysticism (Maimonides is a good example of this), etc. etc.

PLEASE figure this out already, so we don't have to continue embarrassing our movement this way. And I don't mean this in an insulting way, if you are truly a "Hitlerite" and our racial kinsman, then it is imperative for you to throw away this garbage and fall in line.

You are making a "Jewish" argument when you try to distinguish the "white jews" from the "brown jews". Hitler was very clear, specifically speaking of the Ashkenazi, that they are ALIEN to our people in EVERY WAY. There is no argument in this, so let's stop the nonsense. Is there racist jews? Of course, there are also self hating Negroes in Harlem, this doesn't men they make good Europeans. The Ashkenazi are the WORSE jews, not the other way around.

Marx was a very UGLY and SEMITIC jew, if there ever was one, so please don't try to turn him Aryan just because you like him and are confused about what socialism really means. You DON'T have to turn jews into aryans for the sake of believing that our socialism is alright. Hitler was NOT a Marxist. PERIOD.

Jerry Seinfeld is also an Ashkenazi and self hating Jew, this doesn't mean he should now join us in our struggle. Marx, just like all Jews, NEVER invent ANYTHING. They steal our inventions, terms, ideologies, etc. and then turn them into a perverted distortion which they then regurgitate back into our culture and claim it as their own. This is what that Hebrew Marx did, and you are buying it stock and barrel.

This goes also for Hebraic monotheism (stolen from Akhenaton), materialism, spirituality, capitalism, socialism, mysticism (Maimonides is a good example of this), etc. etc.

PLEASE figure this out already, so we don't have to continue embarrassing our movement this way. And I don't mean this in an insulting way, if you are truly a "Hitlerite" and our racial kinsman, then it is imperative for you to throw away this garbage and fall in line.

Amen! They do steal and regurgitate. As noted in Henry Ford's " The International Jew: The world foremost problem. "

The Jew is in the same line as a virus, ticks or ramora fish in the line of nature. The Jew is the parasite of humanity.

Location: one of 170 billion galaxies in the observable universe, third planet from one of this galaxy's 400 billion suns - our galaxy is a swastika and we are part of it

Posts: 2,344

Re: National Socialism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surtr

You are making a "Jewish" argument when you try to distinguish the "white jews" from the "brown jews". Hitler was very clear, specifically speaking of the Ashkenazi, that they are ALIEN to our people in EVERY WAY. There is no argument in this, so let's stop the nonsense.

Modern genetic studies show that the Ashkenazi Jews are simply Semitic Jews with 10% European admixture. They are genetically 90% Semitic Jew.