Anyone care to make an assessment on the underlying cause of events like Aurora / Columbine / Virginia Tech being related to the biblical accounts of demon possession? Is it plausible in today's world? I doubt "possession" could be medically/scientifically determined or diagnosed but it sure seems to create an answer to the question of Why?

Thoughts?

High-Gear

07-23-2012, 12:42

There is no such thing as a deamon, or being possessed by one.

Cavalry Doc

07-23-2012, 13:37

Bottom line, the perpetrator is 100% culpable. Why does not matter in how he should be punished. He has demonstrated that, for whatever reason, he does not have the mental circuit breakers to allow him to work and play well with others. He should never experience another moment as a free man.

AlexHassin

07-23-2012, 18:21

the devil made me do it is not a good defense.
just like violent movies and vidio games
he made the choice no one else

Cavalry Doc

07-23-2012, 18:49

the devil made me do it is not a good defense.
just like violent movies and vidio games
he made the choice no one else

In this case, "the devil made me do it" should be grounds for burning at the stake. I'll bring the marshmallows. http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/138/0/9/_marshmallow__by_Crawldragon.gif

countrygun

07-23-2012, 19:02

In many cases ther are more "earthly" explanations and we can see chemical imbalances, trauma, etc, being directly linked. We do not need a theological explanation, the ones we have are pretty good.

No more a sign of the devil than seeing the face of Jesus on a tortilla is proof of divinity

hogfish

07-23-2012, 19:17

Anyone care to make an assessment on the underlying cause of events like Aurora / Columbine / Virginia Tech being related to the biblical accounts of demon possession? Is it plausible in today's world? I doubt "possession" could be medically/scientifically determined or diagnosed but it sure seems to create an answer to the question of Why?

Thoughts?

Not sure if exactly Bible based, but a very well indoctrinated person told me once that the definitions of good/evil were the presence/absence of God, respectively.

:dunno:

Kingarthurhk

07-23-2012, 20:03

the devil made me do it is not a good defense.
just like violent movies and vidio games
he made the choice no one else

I am seeing a lot of paralells to the movie "Rampage" however. Unlike the character in that moview who started off by blowing up the police station, he tried a similar technique by booby trapping his apartment and trying to set an explosive trap for his erstwhile neighbors to divert law enforcement in that direction.

This was a carefully thought out, methodical, and deliberate plan on this guy's part.

Syclone538

07-23-2012, 21:58

Being atheist, I think the odds are very close to zero that anything supernatural/mythological had anything to do with it.

Tilley

07-23-2012, 23:55

Being atheist, I think the odds are very close to zero that anything supernatural/mythological had anything to do with it.

How do we know that's you talking and not Satan?

how can YOU be sure?

Syclone538

07-24-2012, 00:46

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Altaris

07-24-2012, 06:34

demon possession? Is it plausible in today's world?

It was never plausible in any time period, so it still isn't plausible today.

Altaris

07-24-2012, 06:38

How do we know that's you talking and not Satan?

how can YOU be sure?

How can you be sure Satan wasn't the one that wrote the bible, and you have just been following Satan's word this whole time?

GreenDrake

07-24-2012, 06:49

No such thing, but he is already working on the crazy defense. That's his only hope to keep breathing for a while. Why is this idiot even being called a prime suspect?

NMG26

07-24-2012, 08:56

Kill the man, kill the devil.

Domons are thoughts. A lot of people are ruled by their thoughts. Religious people have religious demons.

If we did everything that came into our minds, the world would be kaos. We learn how to analyse our thoughts and kick the domons out that need kicking out. When you entertain the demons, action results. So yes, the pos did what his demons proposed.

eracer

07-24-2012, 09:00

I am seeing a lot of paralells to the movie "Rampage" however. Unlike the character in that moview who started off by blowing up the police station, he tried a similar technique by booby trapping his apartment and trying to set an explosive trap for his erstwhile neighbors to divert law enforcement in that direction.

This was a carefully thought out, methodical, and deliberate plan on this guy's part.I've been replaying that movie in my head since the massacre.

I even wondered (briefly) whether the guy the cops found was set up by the shooter.

muscogee

07-24-2012, 10:35

Schizophrenia would be a more likely explanation.

Kozel

07-24-2012, 17:20

Almost always shooters are high on something. Often prescribed as mood-altering drugs lead to paranoia and suicidal thoughts after prolong use.

Serial killers though…. Most of them are likely possessed. Just about all of them say that something forced them to kill.

Kingarthurhk

07-24-2012, 17:42

Schizophrenia would be a more likely explanation.

I've met schizos. They're typically not that smart.

Schabesbert

07-24-2012, 18:05

Schizophrenia would be a more likely explanation.
Mental illness is far more likely.
But that doesn't show that demonic posession is NEVER the cause.

Just like conspiracies. When a conspiracy theory is postulated, it's far less likely than one, or a handful, of nutjobs acted on their own. But that doesn't prove that conspiracies never happen.

Cavalry Doc

07-24-2012, 18:36

Whether crazy, a sociopath, a schizophrenic, an *****#ole, a demon possessed vessel.....

Either way, he has just about proven himself a rabid animal that is best put down before he does more damage.

High-Gear

07-24-2012, 18:58

How do we know that's you talking and not Satan?

how can YOU be sure?
Show me some proof for satan.
Maybe that bid red S on your avater is for Satan? Are you Satan? How do we know for sure?

High-Gear

07-24-2012, 18:59

Almost always shooters are high on something. Often prescribed as mood-altering drugs lead to paranoia and suicidal thoughts after prolong use.

Serial killers though…. Most of them are likely possessed. Just about all of them say that something forced them to kill.

What do you base this on? Do you have anything to back it up?

Kozel

07-24-2012, 19:24

What do you base this on? Do you have anything to back it up?

It is a very long story but basically I have seen it.

Sounds totally crazy but because I was meddling in some occultist stuff when I was young I have seen few demons over the years. Time to time I see things others do not.

Now. Before you tell me that I am crazy and need proper help pick up your Bible and read all about people talking to demons, Jesus going on the tour of the world with Satan himself. Even spirit is mentioned in Saul case.

Things I could tell you would boggle your mind but you will not believe any of them. You live in different state of reality.

Seriously though. If you've ever witnessed someone suffering from mental issues who were once "normal", its a very scary thing. Makes you wonder how much does it take to strip that grasp of reality from you. And how suddenly they can come back with the right meds.

Makes you really wonder just how tenuous the grip on reality really is if some chemical imbalances can send you into fantasy land just like that.

Randy

High-Gear

07-24-2012, 20:10

I think its like anything else, there's a wide range. Some are very smart, some are very dumb. Most are average.

Some its hard to tell where the crazy stops and the lazy begins, as they use it for an excuse to get away with stuff.

Seriously though. If you've ever witnessed someone suffering from mental issues who were once "normal", its a very scary thing. Makes you wonder how much does it take to strip that grasp of reality from you. And how suddenly they can come back with the right meds.

Makes you really wonder just how tenuous the grip on reality really is if some chemical imbalances can send you into fantasy land just like that.

Randy

+1. I've seen it as well and it is truly frightning and fascinating at the same time.

Kingarthurhk

07-24-2012, 21:37

I think its like anything else, there's a wide range. Some are very smart, some are very dumb. Most are average.

Some its hard to tell where the crazy stops and the lazy begins, as they use it for an excuse to get away with stuff.

Seriously though. If you've ever witnessed someone suffering from mental issues who were once "normal", its a very scary thing. Makes you wonder how much does it take to strip that grasp of reality from you. And how suddenly they can come back with the right meds.

Makes you really wonder just how tenuous the grip on reality really is if some chemical imbalances can send you into fantasy land just like that.

Randy

Most either get medicated, or wander around with a half beard, backpack, and large knife muttering about Karl Sagan and the Russian Consulate.

If you were looking for a particular mental disorder, I think the operative word for this shooter would be sociopath.

Altaris

07-24-2012, 21:51

I think its like anything else, there's a wide range. Some are very smart, some are very dumb. Most are average.

Some its hard to tell where the crazy stops and the lazy begins, as they use it for an excuse to get away with stuff.

Seriously though. If you've ever witnessed someone suffering from mental issues who were once "normal", its a very scary thing. Makes you wonder how much does it take to strip that grasp of reality from you. And how suddenly they can come back with the right meds.

Makes you really wonder just how tenuous the grip on reality really is if some chemical imbalances can send you into fantasy land just like that.

Randy

I agree. It is frightening.

My neighbor when I was young was like this. She was a surgeon and very smart. Not sure what happened, but she lost it one day. They put her on meds and she was somewhat ok as long as she took them. One day her husband ran to the store to re-fill her prescription and found her dead when he came home. She took a butcher knife to her throat, and as an ER surgeon, she knew exactly how to cut to make it very messy.

muscogee

07-25-2012, 07:03

If you were looking for a particular mental disorder, I think the operative word for this shooter would be sociopath.

Ted Bundy was a sociopath. How does this guy fit that MO? Sociopaths are not easily caught. This guy's behavior was bizarre and out of touch with reality. Bundy was smooth and got away with his crimes for years.

High-Gear

07-25-2012, 16:44

It is a very long story but basically I have seen it.

Sounds totally crazy but because I was meddling in some occultist stuff when I was young I have seen few demons over the years. Time to time I see things others do not.

Now. Before you tell me that I am crazy and need proper help pick up your Bible and read all about people talking to demons, Jesus going on the tour of the world with Satan himself. Even spirit is mentioned in Saul case.

Things I could tell you would boggle your mind but you will not believe any of them. You live in different state of reality.

No, I live in Reality. Not fantasy land.

Kozel

07-25-2012, 17:40

No, I live in Reality. Not fantasy land.

Well then to you Bible is a fantasy book.

Atheists like you are biggest deniers of reality.

Altaris

07-25-2012, 17:46

Well then to you Bible is a fantasy book.

.

The bible is a fantasy book

Kozel

07-25-2012, 17:58

The bible is a fantasy book

Hey. It is your opinion. It no more valuable to me then opinion of a blind man on shape of an elephant he has never seen.

I believe what I know not from reading Bible but from what I have seen on my own. I did not come to God based on reading Bible or hearing preachers. I came to God when I saw absolute reality of evil and realized that since this is real then God must be real too. I realized that side I was on was not the one I wanted to belong to.

There is a whole world out there, which is as real as this one that you know absolutely nothing about and cannot see.

.

High-Gear

07-25-2012, 19:34

Hey. It is your opinion. It no more valuable to me then opinion of a blind man on shape of an elephant he has never seen.

I believe what I know not from reading Bible but from what I have seen on my own. I did not come to God based on reading Bible or hearing preachers. I came to God when I saw absolute reality of evil and realized that since this is real then God must be real too. I realized that side I was on was not the one I wanted to belong to.

There is a whole world out there, which is as real as this one that you know absolutely nothing about and cannot see.

.

You saw evil? Of a supernatural sort? Please do tell!

Norske

07-25-2012, 20:16

Well then to you Bible is a fantasy book.

Atheists like you are biggest deniers of reality.

You believe in supernatural beings that you cannot prove even exist and you say we deny reality?

:rofl:

Although I am not an aetheist. I am agnostic.

OK, I'll bite also.

What was the evil you witnessed that convinced you that "God" exists?

:dunno:

Kozel

07-25-2012, 22:40

You believe in supernatural beings that you cannot prove even exist and you say we deny reality?

:rofl:

:

I do not recall trying to prove anything to anybody or to you personally.

I shared my opinion based on my experience. I do not quite understand why is it that you not liking or believing my opinion is of any importance to me? Please explain.

I do not play games. You on the other hand… What are you trying to do with your mocking reply? You are trying to prove to me that what you did not see is proof that something I did see does not exist? Even you should understand the futility of your effort.

You can roll on the floor laughing until you turn blue. What is it to me?

GreenDrake

07-26-2012, 04:26

Not necessarily, they are asking for your story. I am intrigued as well. Do tell.

Kingarthurhk

07-26-2012, 16:50

Ted Bundy was a sociopath. How does this guy fit that MO? Sociopaths are not easily caught. This guy's behavior was bizarre and out of touch with reality. Bundy was smooth and got away with his crimes for years.

Sociopaths are usually intelligent, have no emotional connection, and tend to escalate in order to attempt to "feel something." I think that fits both these scenarios rather well.

High-Gear

07-26-2012, 17:01

I do not recall trying to prove anything to anybody or to you personally.

I shared my opinion based on my experience. I do not quite understand why is it that you not liking or believing my opinion is of any importance to me? Please explain.

I do not play games. You on the other hand… What are you trying to do with your mocking reply? You are trying to prove to me that what you did not see is proof that something I did see does not exist? Even you should understand the futility of your effort.

You can roll on the floor laughing until you turn blue. What is it to me?

I was serious, i want to hear about it.

Cavalry Doc

07-26-2012, 17:54

Sociopaths are usually intelligent, have no emotional connection, and tend to escalate in order to attempt to "feel something." I think that fits both these scenarios rather well.

Intelligence and empathy are two separate traits. Sociopaths lack empathy, and how good they are at being sociopaths depends on their intelligence.

There are plenty of dumb sociopaths in prison right now.

SPIN2010

07-26-2012, 18:15

The bible is a fantasy book

Wow! Then someone's fantasy hit the nail on the head many times over with proven eschatology.

Norske

07-26-2012, 18:19

I do not recall trying to prove anything to anybody or to you personally.

I shared my opinion based on my experience. I do not quite understand why is it that you not liking or believing my opinion is of any importance to me? Please explain.

I do not play games. You on the other hand… What are you trying to do with your mocking reply? You are trying to prove to me that what you did not see is proof that something I did see does not exist? Even you should understand the futility of your effort.

You can roll on the floor laughing until you turn blue. What is it to me?

What is it to me?

9/11/01 is what it is to me.

Religion breeds fanatics.

Religous fanatics are direct threats to my life.

We agnostics are forced to put up with religious fanatics who want to kill us because we are "required" to "respect" your own, personal, irrational fetish of belief in supernatural beings you cannot prove exist.

Not to mention the time, wealth, and blood wasted, as well as the lives wasted, in pursuit of such fetishes.

Religion is not harmless.

Mankind needs to grow up, as a whole, and reject all organized religions as the superstitious fantasy that it was, is, and shall evermore be, Amen.

:upeyes:

High-Gear

07-26-2012, 18:45

Wow! Then someone's fantasy hit the nail on the head many times over with proven eschatology.

Eschatology is end times prophecy right? So please tell me what has been proven and cite some references!

Kingarthurhk

07-26-2012, 19:16

Intelligence and empathy are two separate traits. Sociopaths lack empathy, and how good they are at being sociopaths depends on their intelligence.

There are plenty of dumb sociopaths in prison right now.

There are a lot of dumb people in prison with personality disorders. The dumb are usually easier to catch.

Kingarthurhk

07-26-2012, 19:28

Eschatology is end times prophecy right? So please tell me what has been proven and cite some references!

Matthew 24:12, "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold"

Matthew 24:37-39, "As it was in the days of Noah, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23995AO))'></sup> so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23996AP))'></sup> up to the day Noah entered the ark; <sup class="versenum">39 </sup>and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

Genesis 6:11-13, "Now the earth was corrupt <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-149Y))'></sup> in God’s sight and was full of violence. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-149Z))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>God saw how corrupt <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-150AA))'></sup> the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-150AB))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-151AC))'></sup> both them and the earth."

2 Peter 3:3-7, "Above all, you must understand that in the last days <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30526E))'></sup> scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30526F))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30527G))'></sup> Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30527H))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30528I))'></sup> the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30528J))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>By these waters also the world of that time <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30529K))'></sup> was deluged and destroyed. <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30529L))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30530M))'></sup> being kept for the day of judgment <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30530N))'></sup> and destruction of the ungodly."

There is some Escathology for you that I believe Spin was alluding to.

Altaris

07-26-2012, 19:54

Matthew 24:12, "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold"

Matthew 24:37-39, "As it was in the days of Noah, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23995AO))'></sup> so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23996AP))'></sup> up to the day Noah entered the ark; <sup class="versenum">39 </sup>and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

Genesis 6:11-13, "Now the earth was corrupt <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-149Y))'></sup> in God’s sight and was full of violence. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-149Z))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>God saw how corrupt <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-150AA))'></sup> the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-150AB))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-151AC))'></sup> both them and the earth."

2 Peter 3:3-7, "Above all, you must understand that in the last days <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30526E))'></sup> scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30526F))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30527G))'></sup> Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30527H))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30528I))'></sup> the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30528J))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>By these waters also the world of that time <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30529K))'></sup> was deluged and destroyed. <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30529L))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30530M))'></sup> being kept for the day of judgment <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30530N))'></sup> and destruction of the ungodly."

There is some Escathology for you that I believe Spin was alluding to.

High-Gear asked for proof/evidence, not a verse from the bible..

Gunhaver

07-26-2012, 20:06

it sure seems to create an answer to the question of Why?

Thoughts?

And therein lies the problem. Why bother to look for a real answer when you can just create one? I say the the mass murders are android soldiers sent here by the Japanese as a massive plot to eliminate the rifles behind every blade of grass and facilitate the coming invasion. Here's my evidence.

HRP 4C Miim's Human like Walking - YouTube

So I have video evidence. Do you have any video evidence of demons or Satan?

Cavalry Doc

07-26-2012, 20:35

There are a lot of dumb people in prison with personality disorders. The dumb are usually easier to catch.

Agreed. But that is what prison is for. To separate those that cannot work and play well with the rest of us.

Woofie

07-26-2012, 20:48

Wow! Then someone's fantasy hit the nail on the head many times over with proven eschatology.

So Hey-Zeus came back already?

muscogee

07-26-2012, 21:39

Sociopaths are usually intelligent, have no emotional connection, and tend to escalate in order to attempt to "feel something." I think that fits both these scenarios rather well.

Here's the criteria, you decide. BTW, the correct name for a sociopath is an anti-social personality.

http://behavenet.com/schizophrenia

http://behavenet.com/antisocial-personality-disorder

GAFinch

07-26-2012, 22:33

I'd be more comfortable linking the zombie attacks with demonic possession, since bath salts have been ruled out.

nmk

07-27-2012, 22:56

It is a very long story but basically I have seen it.

Sounds totally crazy but because I was meddling in some occultist stuff when I was young I have seen few demons over the years. Time to time I see things others do not.

Now. Before you tell me that I am crazy and need proper help pick up your Bible and read all about people talking to demons, Jesus going on the tour of the world with Satan himself. Even spirit is mentioned in Saul case.

Things I could tell you would boggle your mind but you will not believe any of them. You live in different state of reality.

Here's the criteria, you decide. BTW, the correct name for a sociopath is an anti-social personality.

http://behavenet.com/schizophrenia

http://behavenet.com/antisocial-personality-disorder

Changing the name, doesn't alter the condition. The DSM likes to correct itself every now and again to be more PC.

muscogee

07-28-2012, 09:13

Changing the name, doesn't alter the condition. The DSM likes to correct itself every now and again to be more PC.

That's been the name since the sixties. Give me some criteria other than your opinion for differentiating between a schizophrenic and a sociopath. If you look hard enough I suspect you will find that sociopath is the pop psychology name for anti-social personality.

In Biblical times his behavior would have been blamed on demon possession.

Cavalry Doc

07-28-2012, 10:07

That's been the name since the sixties. Give me some criteria other than your opinion for differentiating between a schizophrenic and a sociopath. If you look hard enough I suspect you will find that sociopath is the pop psychology name for anti-social personality.

In Biblical times his behavior would have been blamed on demon possession.

In the most recent case with the joker, I'd look the other way if anyone wanted to burn him at the stake. :whistling:

Does it really matter if a viscous deranged animal has rabies or a head injury that caused the derangement? It should still be put down.

nmk

07-28-2012, 11:24

In the most recent case with the joker, I'd look the other way if anyone wanted to burn him at the stake. :whistling:

Does it really matter if a viscous deranged animal has rabies or a head injury that caused the derangement? It should still be put down.

Of course. Knowledge is useful.

Cavalry Doc

07-30-2012, 12:05

Of course. Knowledge is useful.

How much is it worth? Feeding him for a couple of years?

What will probably happen, is that he will undergo evaluation for a year or so to decide he is a highly functional nutjob. He may or may not reach trial. I really question the value his personal input will give.

The system is what it is, and it will take a long time to get to the end of this situation.

Anyhow, I don't believe in demons or possession, but I enjoy the movies.

Bren

07-30-2012, 12:33

Does it really matter if a viscous deranged animal has rabies or a head injury that caused the derangement? It should still be put down.

Thius is one thing we agree on 100%.

Actually, my feeling has always been that people who commit a crime for a reason are less dangerous and than people who commit it because they are crazy. I'd support execution for insane murderers - not only doing it, but being a priority over executing people who killed for money or whatever.

Cavalry Doc

07-30-2012, 13:16

Thius is one thing we agree on 100%.

Actually, my feeling has always been that people who commit a crime for a reason are less dangerous and than people who commit it because they are crazy. I'd support execution for insane murderers - not only doing it, but being a priority over executing people who killed for money or whatever.

It seems reasonable that insanity should be an aggravating factor, not a mitigating one. People that lack the circuit breaker in their mind to keep them from committing random acts of mass violence should be permanently removed from society.

High-Gear

07-30-2012, 14:10

I wonder however if his "problem" is fixable with the right medication, should he be killed? Certainly seperated from society, but why killed?

I guess I really don't support the death penalty, but not for the reasons you might suspect.

A meth-head dirtbag whom we had fought several times in the past decided to take his wife hostage and keep beating her while threatening to kill her. My team made entry to rescue her, and he shot one of my team mates in the head, and another in the leg, arm, and hand. Before retreating behing cover.

Some wanted the death penalty for this guy. I however think he would be getting off too easy. I think justice would be better served if he spent the rest of his life in the punishing heat, and bitter cold of Western Kansas turning big rocks into little rocks for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, eating plain bologna sandwiches and drinking water.

But that is just me!

HOTHEAD

07-30-2012, 14:13

I however think he would be getting off too easy. I think justice would be better served if he spent the rest of his life in the punishing heat, and bitter cold of Western Kansas turning big rocks into little rocks for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, eating plain bologna sandwiches and drinking water.

But that is just me!

I think the main argument is that that would take place all on the tax payers dime.

High-Gear

07-30-2012, 14:30

I think the main argument is that that would take place all on the tax payers dime.

It costs more for a capital murder trial, and susequent appeals. About 8 times as much as life in prison.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Bren

07-30-2012, 14:46

It costs more for a capital murder trial, and susequent appeals. About 8 times as much as life in prison.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

So they say. If you saw what they mean by "subsequent appeals" you'd realize the irony of that. After 1-2 levels of direct appeal, it's Government-paid left-wing lawyers (who are not constitutionally required) filing any kind of frivolous BS (literally things they'd be suspended or disbarred for in other cases) lawsuit to delay execution. But for that, it would actually be much, much cheaper.

Then the same people who used every possible tactic to increase the cost, protest the high cost they created.:upeyes:

countrygun

07-30-2012, 14:49

It costs more for a capital murder trial, and susequent appeals. About 8 times as much as life in prison.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Hogwash, at least not in my State.

I spent 6 weeks between jury selection and sitting in the jury box before we found the defendant "Guilty". It wouldn't have mattered what the penalty was that was just the "guilt" phase. As per our system, we then spent 2 1/2 days in the "penalty phase" listening to testimony and 5 hours to decide on the death penalty. Didn't cost that much extra.

He got a review by the State Supreme Court who decided that his trial and our verdict were conducted and arrived at properly and he sits on "Death Row" today.

Unfortunately, our fuzzwad Governor will not let the death penalty by carried out so he sits with a, basically, expensive life sentence.

eracer

07-30-2012, 15:10

...spent the rest of his life in the punishing heat, and bitter cold of Western Kansas turning big rocks into little rocks for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, eating plain bologna sandwiches and drinking water.