I wrote:If you ever want to draw a total riot of colors, there's a description from my own fic, (shameless plug) Rebirth of a Queen, that I've always wanted drawn:

"Guinevere was standing at the entrance to the room-by-room pop-up target course. She was wearing a knee-length, bright yellow skirt, sky blue blouse, and pink running shoes. Combining that with her flame-red ponytail and pale skin, the tiny girl was an eye-jarring riot of colors. The only subdued thing about her was the dark grey pistol she held in both hands."

as for the rest of what she looks like (from the 'of Original Fratello' thread):APPEARANCE: Bright, straight, red-orange hair cut at shoulder length (altenately worn loose, ponytailed, or in tangled knots); pale, freckled skin. Short and skinny even for her age.VITAL STATISTICS: 6 years old, 93cm (or approx. 3'1") tall.**edit**I guess that really leaves a bit too much to the imagination... I suppose I should include a description of her face: classically Irish. A tall oval with big (slightly uneven) bright green eyes, somewhat crooked teeth, a small nose, a rather large forehead, and thin lips.

If you really want me to I'd be more than happy to try and flesh out your OCs. I normally don't because I'd hate to offend anyone by drawing their character "wrong" (which is 75% the reason why I created Laine, to give me an outlet for experimentation) but if you want me to take a stab at it I'll certainly give it a shot.

it would be much appreciated. and trust me-even if you draw a picture of Gwen as a 7-foot-tall blonde with four foot wide hips, I'd just laugh it off and not use it.but seriously, from what I've seen, you're more than talented enough to draw her adequately.

Won't have many more days like this...soon it'll be snowing. Though I suppose snow is nice too.

As she took in the surroundings Laine noticed her right shoelace was undone . She stooped over to tie it, unbeknown to her that she was being watched. Just as she finished tying her laces she suddenly she felt a strong hand grab her rear and a body brush up against her. Standing up straight she looked at the person who was in the midst of walking by. His scruffy looking beard and thin hair made her feel sick inside as she realized it was he who had just groped her. The man gave her a lewd wink and chuckle.

She was just about to yell when her distraught facial features melted into a pleasant smile. The man stopped and looked at her as Laine smiled as nicely as she could. She trotted up to him and tilted her head, smiling even nicer.

"Heh...Oh I see...wanna spend some time with ol' Noah do you?" In response Laine kept smiling and let him place a hand on her back and lead her around the corner to the nearest alley. "Now let's see here little lady. What do you think? Against the wall or the dumpster?" He walked in front of her to check his impromptu "privacy."

As soon as she was satisfied that "ol' Noah" had his attention fully elsewhere, Laine reached for the KA-BAR she kept sheathed in her back waistband. With a mercury smooth leap, she cocked back her hand and planted the knife's 7 inches into his back. Her other hand slammed into the base to shove the knife further until it erupted out the front of the man's chest, just below the neck.

*HURK*

All "ol' Noah" could do was let out a blood gurgled gasp as he heard a soft voice whisper into his ear.

"When I want my ass grabbed, I'll ASK for it..." On the word “ask” she twisted the knife, a sickening sound of sharp steel scraping against bone a further reward for grabbing the wrong butt at the wrong time.

Laine yanked out her knife and wiped the blood of the blade on the dead man's shirt as a pool of it radiated from his body. Thinking she grabbed the man's wallet and took the cash out of it. She tossed the empty leather pouch on the corpse in order to make the death seem like a robbery at first glance.

Putting away her now cleaned knife Laine ran back to where Clayland was expecting her to wait.

If you really want me to I'd be more than happy to try and flesh out your OCs. I normally don't because I'd hate to offend anyone by drawing their character "wrong" (which is 75% the reason why I created Laine, to give me an outlet for experimentation) but if you want me to take a stab at it I'll certainly give it a shot.

And I am well aware of the multiple double entendres.

You've seen my pics of her and the description is in the OC thread... Believe me, you'd do a better job of my interpretations thereof! Thanks! :twisted:She does have a chest, more than normal on girls her age, but small because she is small... its what some in the Bra-industry would ball an 'Odd Size': 20AA (when girls who are that small should have none, she's almost a B).

awesome. excellent imagery. minor tech note: the Ka-Bar would've had to go through the man's breastbone to come out there. not saying she couldn't do it, just that there would be a whole bunch of bone splintered in the process (making crunchy noises and perhaps leaving some bits of bone on the ground)... and from behind, the best places to go for from a tactical perspective are the kidneys or the upper spine (back of the neck)... but I imagine she's enough of a sadist toward his type that she didn't care about that...

@LoC978 wrote:minor tech note: the Ka-Bar would've had to go through the man's breastbone to come out there. not saying she couldn't do it, just that there would be a whole bunch of bone splintered in the process

Ah, good call. I wasn't thinking biologically when I placed her stab there. I merely thought "Where on my chest would freak me out the most to see a knife pop out?" Obviously the neck is too high, can't bend your head to see that, and a gut stab...just lacks something.

@LoC978 wrote:but I imagine she's enough of a sadist toward his type that she didn't care about that...

She was going to make this guy hurt. I would agree that hearing your sternum crack as a knife punched through it would be a teensy bit traumatizing.

Though...what kinda mugger can shove a knife through a man's chest? :suspect:

@LoC978 wrote:minor tech note: the Ka-Bar would've had to go through the man's breastbone to come out there. not saying she couldn't do it, just that there would be a whole bunch of bone splintered in the process

Ah, good call. I wasn't thinking biologically when I placed her stab there. I merely thought "Where on my chest would freak me out the most to see a knife pop out?" Obviously the neck is too high, can't bend your head to see that, and a gut stab...just lacks something.

@LoC978 wrote:but I imagine she's enough of a sadist toward his type that she didn't care about that...

She was going to make this guy hurt. I would agree that hearing your sternum crack as a knife punched through it would be a teensy bit traumatizing.

Though...what kinda mugger can shove a knife through a man's chest? :suspect:

Thanx, Rusty!

Bone is funny on how it breaks. Sometimes it can be cleaved cleanly, other times its shatters. Too many variables on that, but the pattern is the force and speed of the cut would determine how it would break.

But having a knife come out of the front of one's chest after slapping/grabbingher ass- that would really mess up one's day!

@LoC978 wrote:it would be much appreciated. and trust me-even if you draw a picture of Gwen as a 7-foot-tall blonde with four foot wide hips, I'd just laugh it off and not use it.but seriously, from what I've seen, you're more than talented enough to draw her adequately.

Since trying to draw LoCs OC, I got a chance to realize just how small 3'1" really is. It's way smaller than I thought at first. I made a crude comparison chart just so I could see, thought I'd share it.

Mind you Laine is already "fairly" short at 5'1"...:shock:

As a reference point, 3 feet is about how tall a doorknob is on a door.

awesome size comparison. just imagine... not only is Gwen that short, she's thin as a rail as well.now you see why she can't hold full-sized weapons, eh? ...and thanks to this experimentation, now Laine has a Mini-Me!

EDIT: Trying to make an image of a character you didn't create is tough...:oops: So might not be what you had in mind, this is just what popped into my mind.

@rusty-spring wrote:Hell, took me 10 or more tries to end up getting Laine comfortable enough so I could draw her without a lot of hairpulling. At first it took a long time just to get her head right. Now her head finishes in minutes.

...*thinks*...naaahh...Too easy...

EDIT 328: I'll probably re-do her gun. Bothers me a bit as is right now.

Nice Drawings. I easily forget just how small these kids are (especially in vol 1/anime). When I see them with weapons my first thought is "those are big weapons", but in reality Triela's shot gun, for example, is not that big, it just looks hudge when she's holding it.

wow.. thanks. I had to stare for a minute. I never really allowed myself to believe she would 'come to life' on the page... that's pretty damned close, though. looks like it could be right outta chapter 4, right before they head out into the street to ambush my 5 slavic extras... makes me wanna go take an art course or three and attempt to draw a scene with both Orazio and Gwen...

Rusty wrote:Glock 26 (or my attempt thereof)

the only problem I see is that it looks slightly small... lemme do a couple calculations to see if I'm right...

Rusty wrote:Problem is, her index finger would be unable to reach the trigger if I enlarged it more.

I see now that this is true... she'd have to use an awkward, 2-handed-only grip; much like how I have to hold a .50AE Desert Eagle...example, using my airsoft M-GB (my largest handgun... my CZ-75 is a bit smaller, so it's a worse example... and it's in a gun cabinet. I'm lazy):but here's the comparison I used (using my own hand and a 0.536 multiplier that I arrived on ages ago for writing my fic):-as you can see she'd be about 19mm (or approximately 21% of the distance needed) short of reaching the trigger with a normal (one-handed) grip.oh, and I have her arm at 348mm, where the Glock 26 is 160mm (so the gun is about 46% as long as her arm).Damn my OCD... It makes me research the oddest of things...

The problem I see is that the Glock is too big for a 6yr old to handle. Anyone that small would be using a between a .22 - .32 caliber range or have the gun so small that it it limited ammunition. For Gwen's hand size, this would be more approprieate: http://www.naaminis.com/25NAA.htmlI would recommend their .32NAA for her; a .25 does not have that much stopping power.

For Rachel, I have her on missions using the .32NAA (dubbed the .32/.38 ) and a S&W 1911 .45 for personal. The 1911 .45 is just within her hand size. I (Fernando) use the America Arms Model 1984, which is so big as a .45, you can use it to crack brazil nuts and drive nails into studs with it. Most (not all) of the model 1984 parts are compatible to the 1911. Rachel's hands are too small to wrap around the 1984. Damn thing weighs a ton too.

still just a hair (4mm) too long. She might be able to get a fingertip on the trigger one-handed, but not enough to fire comfortably... also, wouldn't the .32 have a wider grip than the .25, since it uses a round with a longer casing (unless it uses the same frame, and you could swap barrels like a Desert Eagle)?plus, I'd sooner have her use a Kahr 9mm (which is a little bigger than the NAA.32, but smaller than the GLOCK 26), since NAA .32 would classify as even more exotic (and difficult to acquire)than her Chinese DAP58, in Italy.

3klicks wrote:I don't know much about guns, but isn't it possible to modify the trigger or something? Maybe it could be moved just a bit back. Use a trigger from a different model or change the leverage.

that would require a whole lot of custom-machined parts. while possible, it's highly impractical and would most likely decrease the reliability of the weapon. It would actually be easier to custom machine a whole new gun for her. ...I also found a Taurus .25 and a Beretta .25 about the same size as the NAA... ... regardless, I'm sticking with the GLOCKs she's got (and maybe a slimline .45 someday). once you've shot with that awkward looking grip I showed ya (in blur-o-vision) enough times, you get pretty good at it. I actually have pretty good marksmanship with a .50AE Desert Eagle, and that's how I hold it.**edit** also, since that's the only way she's ever fired a pistol, she wouldn't have any un-learning to do in order to use that grip. I had a difficult time at first because the grip felt wrong to me, due to my being used to firing smaller pistols.

LoC is right on all counts.1) The gun's reliability goes doen when you stat to machine parts. Plus you need to be a skilled machinist/gun smith to do the mods.

2) Once you learn a gun, its hard to unlearn it.

For me, the American Arm .45 (plus nail driver/brazil nut cracker), is a heavy gun to use, one I've gotten used in shooting it. (damn thing's a beast of metal!) though I can shoot anything put into my hand, I can shoot my AA M1984- .45 blindfolded and still hit something.

Gwen would have to use a strange 2-handed hold in order to shoot the glock she has. But if she can do it, then thats the style she will stay with. To shoot it, she would need the gun to rest in her left hand, pressed into by her right hand and middle, ring & pinky fingers, while her index finger pulls the trigger. The right thumbwould have to rest on the side of the hand since it cant go around the gun.

This brings up a good time to make note about their wardrobe. The reason why Laine wears jeans and tanktops and why Clayland wears hoodies and zip up jackets is so they can blend in en masse. They're largely an observation team. You saw a guy chilling on a street corner wearing a suit and tie or walking into a sports bar contrasted to a dude in a sweatshirt - who's going to catch your eye more? How about that girl wearing the pretty dress and nice long coat standing in the middle of the food market? ...What if she was wearing jeans and some t-shirt?

Lots of stakeouts, lots of sitting on benches, lots of hours logged into coffee shops with big windows. So not only is it practical to dress comfortably casual, it blends into the everyday hustle and bustle the best They don't get handed the cushy "hang around the Art Museum" missions or "Assassinations in a 5 star hotel."

Also, not sure if I mentioned this anywhere yet, but both Clayland and Laine are British in nationality.

Finally, that disclaimer being said. I haven't figured out how to make a male convincingly mature looking without making him look pissed or shoving him into a suit, or growing a beard...etc...

As such, Clayland looks like he's a punk teenager (no offense to the teens out there ).

@rusty-spring wrote:This brings up a good time to make note about their wardrobe. The reason why Laine wears jeans and tanktops and why Clayland wears hoodies and zip up jackets is so they can blend in en masse. They're largely an observation team. You saw a guy chilling on a street corner wearing a suit and tie or walking into a sports bar contrasted to a dude in a sweatshirt - who's going to catch your eye more? How about that girl wearing the pretty dress and nice long coat standing in the middle of the food market? ...What if she was wearing jeans and some t-shirt?

depends on where you live. when I was in Italy, I saw more... how do I describe the pants..? linen? kinda like slacks, but not as dressy/no crease (many more of those than jeans). and there were more button-up shirts than t-shirts. but I get the point about the suit. it's useful if you wanna look like a mafioso, though. only the police fuck with the mafiosos, usually.

@rusty-spring wrote:Finally, that disclaimer being said. I haven't figured out how to make a male convincingly mature looking without making him look pissed or shoving him into a suit, or growing a beard...etc...As such, Clayland looks like he's a punk teenager (no offense to the teens out there ).

that's always difficult with the anime/manga style. I've noticed that Mr. Aida uses creases at/bags under the eyes, stubble, pronounced cheekbones and the like to denote adults. basically, more detail=more ageexample:

@LoC978 wrote:depends on where you live. when I was in Italy, I saw more... how do I describe the pants..? linen? kinda like slacks, but not as dressy/no crease (many more of those than jeans). and there were more button-up shirts than t-shirts.

That's true, jeans are kinda "American." I can shove Laine into khakis or something instead. Not jeans, but still everday wear. Clayland already doesn't like jeans...which leads to comical events with his cyborg that are in yet to be released one-shots.

@LoC978 wrote:but I get the point about the suit. it's useful if you wanna look like a mafioso, though. only the police fuck with the mafiosos, usually.

I somehow get the feeling that Laine, depending on the mood, wouldn't mind completely fucking up someone who'd be stupid enough to pick a fight. (Watching all the others take a combat role while you must "observe" would definitely give some people reason to want to just hit something eventually. Specially if you've been trained to fight.)

I see what you mean with the bags/wrinkles under the eyes. But I also don't want to fall into the trap of "small eyes = older" either (Examples are the pictures of Laine where she is pissed and her eyes are narrowed. *Boom* instant aging compared to a picture of her happy). I may have to simply settle and work with what the style gives me.

I thought about this for a bit. Here's what I brain stormed:- Smaller eyes + angular shape- Head to body proportions (adults have larger bodies but their head doesn't get much larger)- Wider in the shoulders (the chest grows till about 30)- pronounced chin- more pronounced nose (only applies to men, women usually have almost invisable noses, unless very old).- Oh, and in manga and anime that hairstyle makes me think of the young generic hero, although that might be just me.

I've taken (or tried to take) those in mind when I try to draw males. Male eyes are more square (relatively, I won't just draw rectangles for their eyes... ) than female eyes which will almost always be a smooth/curved line creating ovals/circles. Chin is contrastedly more solid and straighter instead of coming to a "point" like womens.

The noses are still up in the air. The style I draw gives all males/females a nose, but I suppose I could mess with size and angles more.

As for the hairstyle, it's partly purposefully like that. Clay's just a casual contemporary type guy. Someday he'll probably turn into a "suit" but not yet. Though its taking a while to think of a creative hairstyle that doesn't:

Become wacky

turn too long

Turn Beatles-esque/Ken-doll like

But you're right. It is a "generic hero" type hair. Though I suppose it's called "generic" because it's so popular amongst protagonists.

Thanks for the thoughts, I'm keeping them all in mind as I continue to improve myself.

EDIT: Here's examples of what I don't want to do.

*Narrow Eyes*

*Narrow Eyes*

*Narrow Eyes - Wrinkles from middle-age*

*Narrow Eyes - Hillshire's high cheekbones*

*Narrow Eyes*

All except for this last one of Jose, all of them look mature - and depressed/angry/brooding (which I suppose DOES show narrow eyes can mean not angry - though I wouldn't exactly call Jose happy in it). I understand it's an anime drama, but I don't want to limit males I draw to one emotion. The anime's style worked great for itself. But it's just not how I draw anime.

As for hair, Fernando just washes and dries it; needing to go to the barber every 6 weeks for a trim. Rachel just brushes it out and clips it into a tight pony tail. Except for the bangs, it seems to fall into place. I'm just going by my characters in how I draw them.

Breasts are also a major matter, most guys draw them wrong. I have somewhere the instructions on how to do them right. Just got to find them. I'll post them here when I do.

Jean looks pretty damn young and happy here. Hell, in contrast to his usuall self he looks like a frikin teddy bear. The eyes are still small, but there's somehting different about them. More rounded? I'm not sure. [note: I was too lazy to do it myself, so I just pasted LoC's crop page from "Jean: The man who never smiles?"]

@LoC978 wrote:school uniforms... in New York? That's... just... un-american!(says the public school grad. never even seen a catholic school, though my dad went to one)

OT: It was something put in by the Guilani Administration, where at first all schools had to get school uniforms, and put them under competition with one another. The ones who do well with statewide examinations standings- uniforms became an option. My original school (the one I started working for)- had a Red/Blue/Green/Grey plaid skirt and/or jumper for girls. No other school had it... and it was YUCKY!!!

@ElfenMagix wrote:It was something put in by the Guilani Administration, where at first all schools had to get school uniforms, and put them under competition with one another. The ones who do well with statewide examinations standings- uniforms became an option.

[sarcasm]good to see that facism lives on in the great US of A[/sarcasm]

@ElfenMagix wrote:It was something put in by the Guilani Administration, where at first all schools had to get school uniforms, and put them under competition with one another. The ones who do well with statewide examinations standings- uniforms became an option.

[sarcasm]good to see that facism lives on in the great US of A[/sarcasm]

@ElfenMagix wrote:It was something put in by the Guilani Administration, where at first all schools had to get school uniforms, and put them under competition with one another. The ones who do well with statewide examinations standings- uniforms became an option.

[sarcasm]good to see that facism lives on in the great US of A[/sarcasm]

But that sounds smart, not facist. Oh wait sarcasm tags. Right very well carry on.

Where I go to college, I have a friend who used to go a nearby private school. The guys wear blazers and khakis, but more importantly the girls wear plaid skirts and white blouses. They look great if you ask me. Very clean cut, none of this "chick wearing a shirt that shouldn't be wearing a shirt like that."

From what he said, as long as you had all the components and you couldtell it was the school's uniform, they really didn't care. Some guys don't tuck in shirts or tie their ties. Some girls have knee length skirts, other wear theirs only thigh high.

Doesn't sound all that bad to me. *shrugs* If you ask me, any school that makes skirts common place is A-OK.

As for more fanart, it's been freezing lately. My hands like to become uncoordinated when they're cold. I need to get the heater going. But I might have time to put up a picture before Thanksgiving, maybe.

Clayland choked out the water that was in his mouth. With a tilt of the head, Laine looked over her sunglasses at her handler. She watched as one of his eyebrows arched in surprise.

“Laine!”

“Well it is...” Laine sighed and stared at her empty water bottle. Boredom and exasperation were clouding her mind as she thought how something, anything would be better than this current assignment.

...Two weeks in wonderful Ash Sharawrah, Saudi Arabia...

She attempted to wipe the sweat on her forehead with her arm, but that proved a pointless gesture as a thin layer of perspiration shone all over her. Laine crinkled her nose as she watched a stray cat shuffle around on the street. Silently she thanked the universe for not being such an animal in this climate.

“We're not here for much longer. Couple days at most. In the mean time, comments like that will only bring attention to ourselves.” The blonde cyborg scoffed at Clayland's remark.

“We're two Europeans in the Middle East...We already stand out.” Nudging her sunglasses higher up her nose, Laine couldn't help but state the obvious.

“Still, my point remains valid.”

Silence again rested upon the small street they were observing. Clayland peered through a pair of binoculars at regular intervals. So far this morning no one had left the target building. Laine was sure no one would but was proven wrong three hours later, an hour past noon.

“He's coming out.”

Their target was Habil bin Jericho Al-Nassar. Habil was believed to be heavily involved in black market weapon distribution, specificallly chemical weapons, with ties to over a dozen known paramilitary organizations. Orders were to locate, observe, and finally eliminate. After which they were to extract to the nearby Saudi border to Yemen.

For the Clayland and Laine team, this was the first combat operation in over two months. Laine was initially looking forward to the operation, but after a week and a half in the desert her enthusiasm dwindled.

“All right...get prepared.”

Reaching down she grabbed a dusty blanket and pulled it away. Beneath it lay her HK 417.

“He's heading away from us, walking down the street. There are five others with him. At least three are armed.”

From their meticulously chosen rooftop, Laine propped herself in a crouched shooting position. Through the rifle's scope she judged the target to be no more than 120 meters away, at most 130. She aimed her rifle at the back of Al-Nassar's skull.

“Take the shot when you have it Lai – ”

Clayland hadn't even finished his sentence before the rifle roared and her first round flew downrange. Unfortunately, it was also the precise moment one of Al-Nassar's taller lackeys decided to turn into the firing line.

A pink mist erupted from the man's skull as bits of it were sent flying, splattering the rest of the entourage in blood. What was left of the bullet skewed off path and managed to inbed itself in The weapon dealer's left flank. One couldn't plan a more spectacular case of bad timing. Civilians down below scrambled left and right, some screaming as they ran.

“Damn it!” Clayland swore. He watched through his binoculars as Al-Nassar and the four others dived for cover. “Can you get another shot?” Laine quickly panned her scope left to right.

“Not here. Unless you want me to shoot through women and children.”

“All right, pack it up quickly, we're going after him. He won't get far with that wound.” Just as Clayland was about to decend the the stairs down to the street he felt an iron grip on his wrist that threatened to yank him to the ground.

“Not without this you aren't.” While one hand gripped her handler's wrist, the other held out a vest. Clayland dryly scoffed at his impatience and hastily donned the body armor.

“All right. I'll get down to ground level and approach from there. Think you can do your roof hopping thing to get a better angle?” She nodded and slung her own gun over her shoulder.

“Ready?”

I'm not going to miss a second time... Laine thought and smirked coldly.

“Absolutely.”

I wanted to draw the male character with the female side by side so I could practice on contrasting males and females.

Unfortunately the gun sucks . I had no reference on an HK 417 except for a side view so I had to kinda "estimate" what it looked like from below. Clayland's fingerless gloves are also a cheap way of hiding poor hand anatomy/form.

Fun little shortcuts you learn sometimes.

Last edited by rusty-spring on Fri 23 May 2008 - 16:04; edited 2 times in total

I've mentioned in past posts on this thread why that is so. It's something I'm working on. Clay has no facial hair, or old enough to have wrinkles. So add that to the fact that my style seems to have a penchant towards making everyone look young and you get everyone looking 10-20 years old.

I admit I haven't before practiced drawing old people.

Though who knows? Perhaps I'll end up getting tired of trying to alter the way I draw to accommodate age and scrap the original framework of Clayland, and just make him some 18 year old rookie phenom who somehow gets himself a cyborg.

Which could happen, I don't recall ever saying Clayland and Laine were a part of the SWA. Merely a "handler and cyborg." Technological and information espionage from other countries can be quite rampant.