I'm not sure it was racism behind his firing, because why would they have hired him in the first place?

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Remember that Willingham was hired in the wake of the George O'Leary resume snafu. I think Notre Dame took a chance because they were backed into a corner. We looked stupid with the O'Leary thing but if we hire a black coach, we'll look like heroes in the name of social justice. There are about six black head coaches at 119 Division I football programs. Yet, there are a large percentage of black players on the field. College football is one of the worst areas of diversity in the U.S. as far as leadership positions go. Not many black ADs out there either. There has always been the feeling in this country that blacks possess more physical abilities while whites possess more mental abilities. These untrue stereotypes keep former black athletes in subordinate positions like assistant coach and an assistant AD. And the ol' boys network keeps the machine rolling. Been studying these issues the past four years. It's pretty bad on the women's side, too.

Sure, the Willingham thing wasn't overt racism (we can prove nothing), but Weis sure got a long extension ASAP and Willingham was left twisting in the wind pretty much his whole tenure in South Bend. I'm glad Ty is back out on the West Coast. I hope he produces some great Washington teams and embarrasses Notre Dame teams in future bowl games.

Remember that Willingham was hired in the wake of the George O'Leary resume snafu. I think Notre Dame took a chance because they were backed into a corner. We looked stupid with the O'Leary thing but if we hire a black coach, we'll look like heroes in the name of social justice. There are about six black head coaches at 119 Division I football programs. Yet, there are a large percentage of black players on the field. College football is one of the worst areas of diversity in the U.S. as far as leadership positions go.

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That sounds like the most accurate description of the role that race played in the whole thing. The NFL has made at least some progress on that front in the last decade, but college football is still way behind. Hiring Willingham definitely got them some positive press, including one insane article I remember reading on ESPN that said it was a more significant signing than Jackie Robinson with the Dodgers!

Still, I think the fact that he wasn't really a "Notre Dame guy" was more of a factor in his getting fired than anything race-related (not that there was anything fair about that either). In any event, they're so bad right now that Willingham is obviously doing a lot better where he is. It's not Weis' fault that they gave him a huge extension before he accomplished anything, but the bloom is obviously off the rose now, and he's in an awfully difficult position.

Then sound as if you don't think MSU fans have endured enough crappy football over the last 20 years.

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I've always liked MSU football. I wish their history (last 20 years) was much better.

MSU fans are mostly upset at the coverage that UM gets in the local papers. MSU fans wish their team was as well received by the national press as UM. MSU is bothered by the way MIchigan is given the benefit of the doubt all the time. (ref calls, rankings, ect.) MSU fans hate the arrogance and smugness of the typical fan at the UM. I am personally disappointed in the behavior of both sets of fans at times.

Your post is correct...........like the team, don't care for the fans very much.

Still, I think the fact that he wasn't really a "Notre Dame guy" was more of a factor in his getting fired than anything race-related (not that there was anything fair about that either).

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He definitely wasn't a Notre Dame guy, that's for sure. There has been some murmuring among black female assistant coaches that I have interviewed that they feel like "designated recruiters." They feel they're brought in to recruit top black athletes. If a black athlete sees a black assistant coach on staff, they're more likely to come to a mostly white school. I'm wondering if hiring Willingham had anything to do with Paul Hornug's rant about "recruiting the black athlete." Strictly conjecture on my part.

I've always liked MSU football. I wish their history (last 20 years) was much better.

MSU fans are mostly upset at the coverage that UM gets in the local papers. MSU fans wish their team was as well received by the national press as UM. MSU is bothered by the way MIchigan is given the benefit of the doubt all the time. (ref calls, rankings, ect.) MSU fans hate the arrogance and smugness of the typical fan at the UM. I am personally disappointed in the behavior of both sets of fans at times.

Your post is correct...........like the team, don't care for the fans very much.

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So what is it? You'd like to see the team do well, but would rather it didn't...just to spite it's fans...? I'm still confused.

BTW...imo, you are right on all counts as to the sources of irritation for MSU fans.

So what is it? You'd like to see the team do well, but would rather it didn't...just to spite it's fans...? I'm still confused.

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I'd like to see the team do well, but take joy when it doesn't just to spite it's fans............

Now from this statement, one can conclude that I'd RATHER see MSU win. That is my first choice. That is what I want to see. That is what I wish would happen. That is what I'm hoping for. BUUUUUUUT, When they lose (my second choice, another option, what usually happens!!!) then I take joy in the fact that it disrupts their fans so much...........:nerd2:

It has to be tough being a Spartan Football fan. Year after year with no real shot of a championship. Whole identity seems to be based on what some other team in the State does.

Michigan is off to a Spartan like season in that all hopes of a National title are already out the window. Its not very fun. If anything perhaps some can learn the pain of what a Spartan fan goes through in a typical season. That Michigan/State game is actually looking like something of significance now. Thats how bad it is.

Wow, when it can't possibly get more pathetic, in comes Penn State and the Nittany Lions absolutely stink it up against an extremely mediocre Michigan team. Wonder how they feel about losing in AA again?

I wonder if a QB controversy is brewing. Keep Mallet in there when Henne is healthy?

Wow, when it can't possibly get more pathetic, in comes Penn State and the Nittany Lions absolutely stink it up against an extremely mediocre Michigan team. Wonder how they feel about losing in AA again?

I wonder if a QB controversy is brewing. Keep Mallet in there when Henne is healthy?

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This is actually a very interesting situation. On one hand you have Henne, who's the #1 quarterback and has much better chance of success. Also, with Mallet playing they are going to wear out Hart very quickly with 40+ carries in every game. On the other hand you also have to think about the next season and giving Mallet playing time only gives you better chances at a better team next year. This is the dilemma.

This is actually a very interesting situation. On one hand you have Henne, who's the #1 quarterback and has much better chance of success. Also, with Mallet playing they are going to wear out Hart very quickly with 40+ carries in every game. On the other hand you also have to think about the next season and giving Mallet playing time only gives you better chances at a better team next year. This is the dilemma.

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Lloyd's dilemma, Mallet 2-0 and Henne 0-2.

Defense looks better than it did in the first two games but still PSU was proabably over-rated. Can it stop any of the more potent teams? Well maybe if they don't run the spread offense.

The Wolverine offense is still questionable as Hart can't do it all. Play calling needs to be addressed on when to use Hart and when to throw to the WR's who seem to be always open.