Hilleberg Soulo toggle issue update...

Some of you may have seen awhile back that I was having an issue with the tents inner toggles detaching themselves at times randomly from the outer tent.

This issue was primarily centered around where the footprint attaches to the shelter. I noticed that the loops that the toggles for the footprint go through are also the same loops that the base(floor corners) of the inner utilize.

So I came up with a theory that they needed to be alternated. When ran through together in the same direction the have a tendency to overload the loop, get tangled and one kicks the other out.

So I decided to alternate them and problem solved(I run one toggle North to South and the other South to North through the loops so the toggles themselves set on opposite sides of the loop.) I then set-up and tore down the tent 12-15 times and no problems with the previous issue.

I really need to use the bean a bit more. ;)

I remember a member asked me to keep him(CWF) updated on this issue so I figured I would shoot this bit of info out.

I'm really glad that I figured out a fix for this. I really like the footprint being it not only protects the tent floor and is great for pitching w/o the inner but also covers the area of the vestibule as well.

It's good that you like your Soulo---otherwise you'd be contemplating another level of gear-induced poverty, etc. Since I never use a tent footprint I don't have the problem you're talking about BUT I have had the inner tent on my Keron separate from the fly on one or two toggles just from packing and unpacking. It's not a common thing and nothing a quick adjustment can't fix.

As with most Hillebergs, and probably you already know, the elastic does stretch over time which causes the inner tent to drape and shrink or hang smaller than when new. This is a real hassle for the smaller tents which have a steep foot angle touching the sleeping bag and causing inner tent condensation to wet the bag.

A current new problem I've been having concerns the poles---the DAC Featherlite poles to my Keron tent, 10mm. The protecter end caps are slowing pulling out. Getting ready to email Hilleberg and DAC.

My Soulo and BA Copper Spur both utilize DAC NSL poles. So far no trouble with the poles themselves but then again they are 2 different designs(hubbed on the Spur) but the end caps are 2 different animals.

The Spur utilizes grommets, and the Soulo half sleeves so I will definitely be keeping an eye on that one.

Ahhh yes. The shrinking tent syndrome you mentioned a bit back. I do see what you mean on this one. I have had a bit of experience with the "sag." It is nothing to any great extent on my end yet but I guess I have to accept the fact that over time the elasticized "webbing" that attaches the toggles to the inner will stretch. Its inevitable.

If I remember correctly Hille said they could remedy this for you? I actually gave this some thought when you first mentioned it and here are a few options I came up with.

Maybe a one inch stitch on each of the toggles would take some of the "give" out of the stretchy stuff by providing a bit of resistance to stretching and at the same time pull back some of the slack that was generated over time?

My only worries with this is that it would be somewhat time consuming, and may void the warranty due to the fact that an alteration has been made to the shelter.

Another option I thought of was when I run the toggle through the connecting point on the outer is to "wrap" it a few times to pull in the slack before cinching it down?

Once again, time consuming to an extent.

Last option I thought of was just tie the toggle webbing in knots before attaching it to the outer. This may pull it back into shape a bit as well which would be totally dependent upon what type of knot is utilized.

Once again, something I really wouldn't feel like doing but it may work.

I'm kinda lazy. ;)

Oh, on a side note, I am considering another Hille. A hoop design. Just not sure which one. I am pretty much covered on the solo thing.

"Another option I thought of was when I run the toggle through the connecting point on the outer is to "wrap" it a few times to pull in the slack before cinching it down?"

This is exactly what I have done on the Staika but it really shouldn't have to be done. I pull the toggle thru the ring, wrap several times, and finish with a final pass of the toggle thru the ring. My question is, what would happen if all the elastic bands were made permanent? The Staika has five permanent webbing attachments with toggles, four in the corners and one on top. I'm sure your Soulo is similar? The favorite Keron has nine permanent attachments, 33 overall.

If all the others were replaced with similar permanent webbing, well, I wonder if in a stiff wind the inner tent would rip or tear??

All elastics (bungees in the poles, wrist cuffs on jackets, waist bands on pants and long johns) change their elasticity with time and temperature. I remember (not so fondly) getting to high camp on a mountain I was climbing with some folks in storm, 25-30 knot winds, temps about -20F or so, setting up our tents with chilled poles. The bungees wouldn't hold the poles together. Somehow we got two of the tents up and crowded all 8 of us into the tents (4 in each 3-person tent). One of the guys decided to put the third tent's poles inside his jacket for a while and voila!, the bungees recovered most of their elasticity. So we quickly set up the third tent, to our much greater comfort.

The expansion and contraction of tents and their guy lines with temperature and moisture is well-known from back in the cotton duck days through the most modern materials. Though I have a friend with a tent made with Cuben who claims that the tent itself has no problems with this (though he says the guys which are made of spectra do show some expansion and contraction with temperature, such as between overnight and mid-day)

Tipi- I am preetty certain my Soulo has 6 non-elasticized webbing points if I remember correctly.
4 total on the corners, one on the backside opposite the entrance and one for the peak/center point up top.

I have wondered what would occur if they were all fixed as well. My personal thought is not much of anything but I am definitely not an engineer so my thoughts on this matter are definitely debatable.

Bill- I have experienced the slack on my Spectra lines as well on my Soulo. I am somewhat mystified at what the cause of this actually is due to the fact that Spectra is supposedly resistant to moisture and will not retain water from my understanding.

The only other logical conclusion is if it isn't the lines the tensioners are losing their "bite" when wet and the tension is causing them to slide out of adjustment maybe? Spectra is somewhat slick stuff so maybe when ya mix it with a bit of H2o this is the ending result?

These are the only 2 logical conclusions I have come to on this matter.

Then again maybe its all the chipmunks playing pranks on me at night. ;)

I do know that the lines(standard/rreflective)on my Copper Spur stay fairly taught when I get them dialed in with little to no slippage if any.

Note that I said "temperature", not "moisture". The elasticity of bungees and other elastic materials is temperature related, and materials (including fiber) expand and contract with temperature as well.

Ahhh, good point. Is there a line out there that is totally resistant to this type of thing?

I was just speaking in reference to the whole Spectra line thing in general. I have woken to saggy lines on my Soulo. I may take a bit of tape and mark one of the lines right above the adjuster when I set the tent next time I am out and about just to see if the tensioners are sliding.

I don't really know what to make of it.

I suppose I could always replace all of my lines with binding wire. That may solve the problem lol.

I compared the elastic on my heavily used 4 year old Staika with the elastic on a brand new Staika and noticed the old elastic to be 1.5-2 inches longer, at rest. Not good. For a long while there I considered the Staika to be the ultimate tent but then after repeated blizzards and butt cold December-January-February rains I decided I was getting too much condensation wetness on my lofted down bag by rubbing up against the "shrinking" end wall of the inner tent.

The Akto is of course much worse in this regard---its inner will definitely touch your lofted down bag. And the Nammatj also has a steep angled foot end which easily rubs up against the lofted down bag, especially when atop a 2 inch thermarest or a 3.5 inch Exped downmat. Hillebergs are in fact so bad in this regard that in one of their old catalogs (and on their website) they recommend---

"JACKET OVER YOUR BAG---Before going to sleep, zip your waterproof jacket over the foot of your sleeping bag. This will help keep any condensation from getting to your insulation."

So yes, it's a known problem. But for the price of a Hilleberg, do they also supply you with a goretex or eVent rain jacket to cover your sleeping bag's foot? Nope. Anyway, I tried the rain jacket trick a few times and only woke up with a small sheet of ice between the bag and the jacket, a decent gtx Arcteryx proshell.

The draping-on-the-foot-of-the-sleeping-bag problem was finally solved by getting the Keron 3 which has vertical head and foot end walls and when "shrunk" the tunnel doesn't get claustrophobic.

ONE MORE MINOR POINT

I've been having some small problems with my Hilleberg 10mm poles made by DAC called Featherlite NSL. Check out the shots---

I took this fotogs today to send in an email to Hilleberg to better explain my problem. No conclusive response yet. The end cap/plug "protector" pulls out after repeated use and at the end of a trip they have to be lightly hammered back in. Not good. Any suggestions?

I compared the elastic on my heavily used 4 year old Staika with the elastic on a brand new Staika and noticed the old elastic to be 1.5-2 inches longer, at rest. Not good. For a long while there I considered the Staika to be the ultimate tent but then after repeated blizzards and butt cold December-January-February rains I decided I was getting too much condensation wetness on my lofted down bag by rubbing up against the "shrinking" end wall of the inner tent.

The Akto is of course much worse in this regard---its inner will definitely touch your lofted down bag. And the Nammatj also has a steep angled foot end which easily rubs up against the lofted down bag, especially when atop a 2 inch thermarest or a 3.5 inch Exped downmat. Hillebergs are in fact so bad in this regard that in one of their old catalogs (and on their website) they recommend---

"JACKET OVER YOUR BAG---Before going to sleep, zip your waterproof jacket over the foot of your sleeping bag. This will help keep any condensation from getting to your insulation."

So yes, it's a known problem. But for the price of a Hilleberg, do they also supply you with a goretex or eVent rain jacket to cover your sleeping bag's foot? Nope. Anyway, I tried the rain jacket trick a few times and only woke up with a small sheet of ice between the bag and the jacket, a decent gtx Arcteryx proshell.

The draping-on-the-foot-of-the-sleeping-bag problem was finally solved by getting the Keron 3 which has vertical head and foot end walls and when "shrunk" the tunnel doesn't get claustrophobic.

ONE MORE MINOR POINT

I've been having some small problems with my Hilleberg 10mm poles made by DAC called Featherlite NSL. Check out the shots---

I took this fotogs today to send in an email to Hilleberg to better explain my problem. No conclusive response yet. The end cap/plug "protector" pulls out after repeated use and at the end of a trip they have to be lightly hammered back in. Not good. Any suggestions?

Some of my tents have this pole I believe but I'd have to start rooting around a bit to check them out.

I assuming that the end cap is in place to give greater strength to the joint as well as to help stop the ends from cracking due to accidental pole slap. As you don't need to take the inserts out to change out the shock cord I would think that just a drop of super glue would work. If for any reason you need to get the insert out (I can't think of a reason why you would) you could always heat the joint up as super glue is heat sensitive. One would just want to make sure that one does not get any glue on the contact area of the pole as that might make them harder to fit together.

Hint: Since super glue is sometimes so unwieldy due its being so thin and runny one can mix baking soda with it to make a super glue paste athough in this case, just a dab of thin runny glue would be perfect for the job.