nyhack56 wrote: srossi wrote: nyhack56 wrote: srossi wrote: nyhack56 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: broke wrote: America leaves allies high and dry all to distract from a government probe, resulting in more Russian influence in the middle east and a probable emboldened ISIS. Don't see that backfiring on the US in about 20 years or so.

Maybe he should have staggered the withdrawal or had some sort of written agreement that the Kurds are not to be harmed.

Okay, not a military mastermind, but how can ISIS possibly make headway in Syria now that Assad pretty much has the civil war wrapped up? Also, Russia is influential in Syria. I jut don't buy this narrative that ISIS is going to have. resurgence in Syria.

Between the pullout, the deregulations, tax cut, and the First Step Act, Trump pretty much will win at least 70% of Gary Johnson's voters.
Full disclosure, I hate Trump.
We had to pull out of Syria eventually. The issue I have the way he did it. He makes decisions and has no mindfulness, no thought to the consequences of his actions.
The truth of the matter is no president is a military mastermind. Certainly no one since probably Eisenhower. But, these former presidents assemble a staff of these guys. This guy has a revolving door in his cabinet because he's doesn't listen to anyone. Unless you blindly agree with him. And that's some North Korea shit when it comes to international diplomacy.

Listening to the so-called experts is a double-edged sword. Of course they know more than Trump, a squashed raisin knows more than Trump, but these are the guys that have lied every step of the way to bring about more war for their own financial gain. These are the "experts" who said there were WMDs in Iraq and all this other nonsense. Don't you get that military people want perpetual war? It's in their best interests. They don't give a fuck about the safety of the country or the lives of the soldiers and certainly not the lives of the civilians in the countries that we've invaded and occupied. I have no problem with a President telling all these guys to fuck off and just withdrawing troops. We have accomplished next to nothing in these countries for 20 years. Terrorist organizations get replaced by other terrorist organizations and we prop up some at the expense of others until we decide to prop up a new one at the expense of the one we just got tired of propping up. We don't belong there, period.
I can agree with you listening to the "experts" is a double edge sword.
Heeding their advice and making an educated decision is not crazy though. This fucking guy goes with his "gut" all the time, and one of these decisions is going to keep us in perpetual war. "My way or the highway" bullying shit doesn't work internationally.

Well if you're looking for a military withdrawal, you will never, ever get that advice from a military "expert". So we'll be there forever. Obama promised this shit and didn't deliver, and only made the conflicts worse, so this is by far the highlight of Trump's presidency so far. The fact that liberals are bashing the move would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. If only we could all look at the comments from both Republicans and Democrats from the Bush years again...
This is a complicated issue because we should be there, yet the way he's going about it is going to be detrimental.
As much as I hate him, I don't want to bash the decision, but there's something about the way he is going about it that's not right. Like maybe it should've been gradual. This isn't a situation to rip off the band aid.

Like we're still gradually withdrawing from Germany (35,000 troops remaining as of end of 2017), Italy (12,000), and Japan (39,000)?

If Trump was half the maverick he thinks he is, he'd immediately end those taxpayer-funded vacations. Or hell, send me to Japan to "serve". I've always wanted to see the NJPW Tokyo Dome show on 1/4. I'll go wearing combat boots if you want.

srossi wrote: nyhack56 wrote: srossi wrote: nyhack56 wrote: srossi wrote: nyhack56 wrote: BlueThunder wrote: broke wrote: America leaves allies high and dry all to distract from a government probe, resulting in more Russian influence in the middle east and a probable emboldened ISIS. Don't see that backfiring on the US in about 20 years or so.

Maybe he should have staggered the withdrawal or had some sort of written agreement that the Kurds are not to be harmed.

Okay, not a military mastermind, but how can ISIS possibly make headway in Syria now that Assad pretty much has the civil war wrapped up? Also, Russia is influential in Syria. I jut don't buy this narrative that ISIS is going to have. resurgence in Syria.

Between the pullout, the deregulations, tax cut, and the First Step Act, Trump pretty much will win at least 70% of Gary Johnson's voters.
Full disclosure, I hate Trump.
We had to pull out of Syria eventually. The issue I have the way he did it. He makes decisions and has no mindfulness, no thought to the consequences of his actions.
The truth of the matter is no president is a military mastermind. Certainly no one since probably Eisenhower. But, these former presidents assemble a staff of these guys. This guy has a revolving door in his cabinet because he's doesn't listen to anyone. Unless you blindly agree with him. And that's some North Korea shit when it comes to international diplomacy.

Listening to the so-called experts is a double-edged sword. Of course they know more than Trump, a squashed raisin knows more than Trump, but these are the guys that have lied every step of the way to bring about more war for their own financial gain. These are the "experts" who said there were WMDs in Iraq and all this other nonsense. Don't you get that military people want perpetual war? It's in their best interests. They don't give a fuck about the safety of the country or the lives of the soldiers and certainly not the lives of the civilians in the countries that we've invaded and occupied. I have no problem with a President telling all these guys to fuck off and just withdrawing troops. We have accomplished next to nothing in these countries for 20 years. Terrorist organizations get replaced by other terrorist organizations and we prop up some at the expense of others until we decide to prop up a new one at the expense of the one we just got tired of propping up. We don't belong there, period.
I can agree with you listening to the "experts" is a double edge sword.
Heeding their advice and making an educated decision is not crazy though. This fucking guy goes with his "gut" all the time, and one of these decisions is going to keep us in perpetual war. "My way or the highway" bullying shit doesn't work internationally.

Well if you're looking for a military withdrawal, you will never, ever get that advice from a military "expert". So we'll be there forever. Obama promised this shit and didn't deliver, and only made the conflicts worse, so this is by far the highlight of Trump's presidency so far. The fact that liberals are bashing the move would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. If only we could all look at the comments from both Republicans and Democrats from the Bush years again...
This is a complicated issue because we should be there, yet the way he's going about it is going to be detrimental.
As much as I hate him, I don't want to bash the decision, but there's something about the way he is going about it that's not right. Like maybe it should've been gradual. This isn't a situation to rip off the band aid.

Like we're still gradually withdrawing from Germany (35,000 troops remaining as of end of 2017), Italy (12,000), and Japan (39,000)?
What's the volatility in those countries? Are they at war? Are there threats of imminent danger? Are these countries direct allies? How many peace-time bases are in these countries as opposed to being engaged in direct conflict?

LOL. Of course, Trump has completely backed off on this now. Whoever talks to him last, gets their way.

Just like everyone else, there is zero thought or reasoning behind anything. I am actually for less intervention outside the US. I am for greater intelligence and choking off their money supplies. I knew Trump wouldn't last with this policy. You know lapdog Lindsey Graham convinced him not to do it while he was shining Trump's golf clubs.

The funniest thing is that many Trumpers were all very supportive of the immediate withdrawal. Now, many of those same people are just fine with that reversal. Heh.

Ultimark wrote: LOL. Of course, Trump has completely backed off on this now. Whoever talks to him last, gets their way.

Just like everyone else, there is zero thought or reasoning behind anything. I am actually for less intervention outside the US. I am for greater intelligence and choking off their money supplies. I knew Trump wouldn't last with this policy. You know lapdog Lindsey Graham convinced him not to do it while he was shining Trump's golf clubs.

The funniest thing is that many Trumpers were all very supportive of the immediate withdrawal. Now, many of those same people are just fine with that reversal. Heh.
People were giving Rand Paul credit for talking Trump into this, but like you said, he has no expertise of his own so it's just about who talks to him last. The highlight of Trump's 2018 is destroyed in the first week of 2019.

Somehow, BT will say he was right when he decided to pull out and right when he decided not to.

Edit: Oh wait, the talking point is that nothing has changed at all. Trump is calling all reports that he said what he originally said and it's different from what he's saying now FAKE NEWS!

BlueThunder wrote: I did state that he should stagger the withdrawal of the troops and not leave our allies high and dry.
He didn't state that though. And it looks like there will be no staggered withdrawal now. We're back there "until we win", even though Trump already declared victory. So this announcement turned into a nothingburger. And I actually gave him props for something mistakenly thinking he grew a set of balls or had least had the good sense to listen to Rand Paul.

BlueThunder wrote: I agree that the "until we win" was bothersome. That's subjective. I thought for sure that Israel would find more "proof" that Assad was gassing his own people to draw Trump in.
More than being subjective, it's code for "we're never leaving". We're still technically in Germany so I guess we don't feel comfortable declaring victory in WWII yet. Or maybe we're still fighting WWI.

I think I have figured this all out. Whatever Lindsey Graham seems to think is ultimately the position Trump will take. He knows he can completely change his mind in a matter of days because his supporters don't care. It is all about trolling people. Nothing else really matters.

So, his position went from an immediate withdrawal in 30 days because ISIS is "decimated" to a staggered withdrawal and finally landing on, "we will be there to completion".

I honestly never understood why we got involved with Syria except as a counter against Iran. While I do not agree with that logic, I can see the argument. Then, Trump said Iran would handle it. Now? Who the F knows?