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So none of us around here remembered the St. Louis Browns after their 1954 reinvention as the Baltimore Orioles? Take a look at Mr. Griffin's article. Then give some thought to dropping him a line. He needs to have his sense of history seriously jogged.

I think his point is valid. In general, most casual fans have forgotten about these teams. Even former players like Gary Carter and Andre Dawson didn't want to be enshrined as Expo players in the Hall of Fame. How many casual fans remember the Philadelphia Athletics/KC Athletics? Even the Brooklyn Dodgers, outside of Jackie Robinson, seem to be forgotten. It is what is, and as the passage of time creeps on, and former members die off,
it will be up to members of sites like this to keep history alive. Not some third-rate hack sports writer.

I went to a restaurant last night (Syberg's in Chesterfield if you happen to be in the St. Louis area).

They had an inordinate* amount of Browns photos, memorabilia etc. in glass cases. I know these “fern bars” are all designed by interior decorators, usually women. Somebody obviously thinks the Browns are still cool, even though virtually no one in their restaurant at any given time will have ever seen the team play at this point.

(It wish B-F allowed you to cross-post. It would be great to ask the otherr forums how many Braves, A's, Giants, etc,. exhibits you'd see at a typical restaurant in those departed cities.)

*Vs. Cardinals, Blues, Rams, football Cardinals, Hawks, soccer teams (Stars, Steamers, Storm) ... and all the U. of Missori and St. Louis U college sports,

Originally Posted by Bill_McCurdy

Canadian sports columnist Richard Griffin recently wrote the following:

"After the 1953 season, the sad-sack St. Louis Browns packed up their memories and moved to Baltimore, to become the Orioles. It didn't take long for the world to forget that the Browns ever existed."

So none of us around here remembered the St. Louis Browns after their 1954 reinvention as the Baltimore Orioles? Take a look at Mr. Griffin's article. Then give some thought to dropping him a line. He needs to have his sense of history seriously jogged.

What big pop culture reference do the Senators have other than Damn Yankees? Does that one mean they have more than the Browns, 1-0? Has anybody done the research to count references? The Browns have a lot of references, but I dont have time to argue 'size', 'importance' and whetehr it represents 'pop culture' or some other manifestation. And even if the Sens do have more references, does that make them more or less "forgotten"?

A lot of very tenuous hypotheses being tossed around.

It's a stupid throwaway line ... let's not give it the credence of 'analysis'. Especially with more throwaway lines that have no support. B-F alone refutes this:
Browns Forum:
* Threads: 347
* Posts: 2,319
Senators Forum:
* Threads: 128
* Posts: 1,574
This, despite the fact that the Senators' forum covers 18 more years of baseball and a *lot* more than 36 living players.

Washington is the 8th ranked MSA and St. Louis is the 18th. So I think over the test of time the Browns have cast a pretty big shadow for their size and if you want to "go there" were more memorable, by far, and may even have more total remembrances despite the Senators' superior size, years in MLB and position of importance as the nation's capitol.

And the location of Sportsman's Park has been preserved (you can still walk on the ball diamond). Griffith Stadium? Demolished in 1965. And I believe our Browns Historical Society is more active than the Senators' equivalent, yes, even though Washington, as you point out, was orphaned by MLB when the Senators left.

Originally Posted by aqib

Well there are a couple of reasons for this:

1) The Browns changed their name and in essence renounced thir history, so there are very few St Louis Browns references when the Baltimore Orioles play.

2) St Louis was a 2 team city that became a one team city. That doesn't bother people as much as a team flat out leaving

3) They didn't win a lot

4) Even though the Senators didn't win a lot either they have a lot more pop-culture references.

I am not disrespecting St Louis as a city or a baseball market. That would be stupid everyone knows St Louis is the best baseball market in the country. But there are certain things things you can't deny:

There is an east coast media bias. Anything that happens in east coast sports is covered more than anywhere else. The Washington Senators left a huge media market empty (not just in total population but media presence). Which brings me to my second point, St Louis was a two team city that became a one-team city. Like with the Philly A's its not just not viewed as being as terrible of a betrayal if there is still an MLB team there.

I am a native of Baltimore whose 1st game was around 1960. I believe that Baltimore wanted nothing to do with the history of the Browns mostly likely due to their record. When reading the history of the Orioles growing up they talk about the National League Orioles in the 1890's Jack Dunn's International league teams and the Federal League Terrapins. It goes from the minor league Orioles of 1953 to the AL Orioles of 1954. I agree that St.Louis is one of the great baseball cities in the country so I am just giving my take as a Baltimore Oriole fan. Personally I would love to see the O's use the Brownies uniforms when they play the Cards this summer.

I'm completely distracted by the Syberg's mention.... Great place! I have a few bottles of Syberg's sauce in the house as I type this, and I live 270 miles down I-70 now. Good people, the Syberg's... lots of my Aunts and Uncles grew up with them in South St. L. One of the Syberg brothers caught Tom Herr's big playoff homer to right - in I think it was 1985. A great photo and the newspaper article hangs near the stairs at the Gravois Sybergs.

Knowing a few family members as well as several of their locations, I'm guessing a traditional restaurant decorator was
NOT the key to getting Browns stuff on the wall.

My guess is that maybe 10% of casual bb fans could give you the correct lineage of the O's, Twins, Braves, A's and Rangers. Maybe 50% would know that the Dodgers, Giants came from NY.

The Browns are still remembered fondly in St. Louis. They seemed to have signed quite a few local ballplayers in their day. But nationally, I would think that if anyone would even bring up and discuss Browns history, it's to mention Pete Gray and Eddie Gaedel. And honestly, if it hadn't been for those 2 guys, there's not many other memorable things about the Browns, other than their terrible performance on the field and even more anemic attendance figures, which will never be duplicated.

For people who like old movies and Bing Crosby, the (still popular) movie "Going My Way" reminds a few people of the Browns.
But I wore my replica Browns Jersey and Cap while going around with the grandkids for Halloween and there were a number of Pittsburgh folks who remember the Browns. And not all old like me.