While I used to rail against homosexual marriage, I now have no problem with it, because I just don't care about who marries whom.

However, I wish people would stop purporting the lie that being gay is somehow not a choice.

You choose who you are with, whether that follows your ultimate attraction or not. If you'd rather be with someone else, then go try to be with them.

Honestly, it's like saying being with a blonde is not a choice and you have to be with a blonde because that's what you're attracted to. Obviously you are choosing to follow your attraction and be with the blondes, or you could choose not to follow it and decide to be with a brunette or a redhead. It's entirely up to you.

In the same way, if you are attracted to the same gender, be with them if you want. Or choose to be with someone of the opposite gender if you decide that's what you'd rather do. Just don't try to lie and say it isn't a choice.

If being gay or straight or whatever isn't a choice, then nothing is ever a choice. We're just fated to make decisions before we ever actually make them, and all decisions are an illusion.

At 3/8/2015 10:51:20 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:being gay =/= being in a gay relationship

The former is not a conscience choice, the latter is.

This is just as much of a lie as the idea that it isn't a choice.

Having a partner of the same gender is what makes someone gay. You can't be gay without it.

The most you can do is claim an attraction to the same gender, but an attraction doesn't make you gay. This is another lie. Attraction doesn't mean anything except to the person themselves in their own mind.

If you don't have a partner (romantic or sexual), unless you state a claim, no one else has any clue as to your sexuality.

At 3/8/2015 10:51:20 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:being gay =/= being in a gay relationship

The former is not a conscience choice, the latter is.

This is just as much of a lie as the idea that it isn't a choice.

Having a partner of the same gender is what makes someone gay. You can't be gay without it.

The most you can do is claim an attraction to the same gender, but an attraction doesn't make you gay. This is another lie. Attraction doesn't mean anything except to the person themselves in their own mind.

If you don't have a partner (romantic or sexual), unless you state a claim, no one else has any clue as to your sexuality.

At 3/8/2015 9:35:03 AM, zoinks wrote:While I used to rail against homosexual marriage, I now have no problem with it, because I just don't care about who marries whom.

However, I wish people would stop purporting the lie that being gay is somehow not a choice.

You choose who you are with, whether that follows your ultimate attraction or not. If you'd rather be with someone else, then go try to be with them.

Honestly, it's like saying being with a blonde is not a choice and you have to be with a blonde because that's what you're attracted to. Obviously you are choosing to follow your attraction and be with the blondes, or you could choose not to follow it and decide to be with a brunette or a redhead. It's entirely up to you.

In the same way, if you are attracted to the same gender, be with them if you want. Or choose to be with someone of the opposite gender if you decide that's what you'd rather do. Just don't try to lie and say it isn't a choice.

If being gay or straight or whatever isn't a choice, then nothing is ever a choice. We're just fated to make decisions before we ever actually make them, and all decisions are an illusion.

I believe we've had this discussion before. I don't feel it necessary to reargue the case over and over and over again. The simple fact is that the professional medical science community overwhelmingly dispute your assertation. I have much more faith in their science than in your uninformed personal opinion.

I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations.
A singular development of cat communications
That obviates your basic hedonistic predilection,
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur to demonstrate affection.

At 3/8/2015 10:51:20 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:being gay =/= being in a gay relationship

The former is not a conscience choice, the latter is.

This is just as much of a lie as the idea that it isn't a choice.

Having a partner of the same gender is what makes someone gay. You can't be gay without it.

The most you can do is claim an attraction to the same gender, but an attraction doesn't make you gay. This is another lie. Attraction doesn't mean anything except to the person themselves in their own mind.

If you don't have a partner (romantic or sexual), unless you state a claim, no one else has any clue as to your sexuality.

So, someone who has no partner is neither straight nor gay. Got it.

Yes, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, there is no way to tell what their sexuality is. I'm glad you've got it.

Of course, anyone - including those presently without a partner - can choose any partner they wish at any time. This is obvious, but many people fail to understand the obvious (such as the fact that being gay or straight is a choice), so I pointed it out.

I believe we've had this discussion before. I don't feel it necessary to reargue the case over and over and over again. The simple fact is that the professional medical science community overwhelmingly dispute your assertation. I have much more faith in their science than in your uninformed personal opinion.

End of discussion.

Then the "professional medical science community" you speak of is wrong. Period. Logic doesn't support their position.

Then we must ask ourselves WHY they are wrong. I contend it is because they are part of a (thus far tremendously successful) agenda to convince the public that being gay isn't a choice so that the public will be more accepting of homosexuals.

I have no problem with homosexuals; I have a HUGE problem with dishonesty, and that's what is happening here.

If you think being gay or straight isn't a choice, then there are only two possibilities for you:

1. You're part of the agenda to convince people of this lie. You know it's a lie but you purport it anyway to forward the agenda.

2. You actually believe the lie, probably because of the agenda, or perhaps for personal reasons that benefit you, your friends, or your loved ones.

Either way, it's a lie, whether you realize it or not.

So you can buy into the lies of an agenda-driven movement, or you can consider looking at it logically and seeking the truth. That, too is a choice, and it is up to you.

I'd rather be the only one with the guts to state the truth than a sheep who cowers and caves to agenda-based lies.

Also, no discussion is ever over just because you say it is. That comes off as tremendously arrogant even if you didn't intend it that way.

I believe we've had this discussion before. I don't feel it necessary to reargue the case over and over and over again. The simple fact is that the professional medical science community overwhelmingly dispute your assertation. I have much more faith in their science than in your uninformed personal opinion.

End of discussion.

Then the "professional medical science community" you speak of is wrong. Period. Logic doesn't support their position.

Then we must ask ourselves WHY they are wrong. I contend it is because they are part of a (thus far tremendously successful) agenda to convince the public that being gay isn't a choice so that the public will be more accepting of homosexuals.

I have no problem with homosexuals; I have a HUGE problem with dishonesty, and that's what is happening here.

If you think being gay or straight isn't a choice, then there are only two possibilities for you:

1. You're part of the agenda to convince people of this lie. You know it's a lie but you purport it anyway to forward the agenda.

2. You actually believe the lie, probably because of the agenda, or perhaps for personal reasons that benefit you, your friends, or your loved ones.

Either way, it's a lie, whether you realize it or not.

So you can buy into the lies of an agenda-driven movement, or you can consider looking at it logically and seeking the truth. That, too is a choice, and it is up to you.

I'd rather be the only one with the guts to state the truth than a sheep who cowers and caves to agenda-based lies.

Also, no discussion is ever over just because you say it is. That comes off as tremendously arrogant even if you didn't intend it that way.

Arrogance??? Logic???

Your entire logical premise is based on the arrogant presumption that you are right, ergo anyone, including the VAST majority of the medical profession are wrong. You have the further arrogance of branding anyone who disagrees with your absurd form of (IL) logic a liar!!

To others :

You may or may not know that Zoinks started a thread on this same subject a few months back. He raged on for several weeks. This was about the time DDO was going through an adminastrative / political change. Suddenly, the entire thread disappeared. This is the first posting I have personally seen by Zoinks since.

The most you can do is claim an attraction to the same gender, but an attraction doesn't make you gay. This is another lie. Attraction doesn't mean anything except to the person themselves in their own mind.

If you don't have a partner (romantic or sexual), unless you state a claim, no one else has any clue as to your sexuality.

What's with the question marks? If you're not sure of the common meaning of either, you can easily look them up.

Your entire logical premise is based on the arrogant presumption that you are right, ergo anyone, including the VAST majority of the medical profession are wrong.

No, not at all.

The premise is based upon logic, which dictates that you cannot be defined by others unless others know something about you by which to make such a definition.

If you want to define yourself, great. Be a self-proclaimed whatever you want. That doesn't always make it so to others, nor should it without evidence to justify such a definition.

You have the further arrogance of branding anyone who disagrees with your absurd form of (IL) logic a liar!!

There is no arrogance involved; it is merely stating of the obvious.

Those who believe being gay or straight is not a choice are either the victims of believing in agenda-based lies or the perpetrators of such. There may be various reasons why one might believe a lie or perpetrate it themselves, but there are no other options beyond these.

You may or may not know that Zoinks started a thread on this same subject a few months back.

No, I did not. This thread is different - that thread was about homosexual marriage and how choice affects that topic, it then veered off into the discussion of choice.

This thread is entirely about the lie that being gay or straight isn't a choice.

This is the first posting I have personally seen by Zoinks since.

Coincidence?

Yes.

I come and go from this site as I please. When I have time, I post. When I don't, I don't post.

At 3/8/2015 10:51:20 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:being gay =/= being in a gay relationship

The former is not a conscience choice, the latter is.

This is just as much of a lie as the idea that it isn't a choice.

Having a partner of the same gender is what makes someone gay. You can't be gay without it.

The most you can do is claim an attraction to the same gender, but an attraction doesn't make you gay. This is another lie. Attraction doesn't mean anything except to the person themselves in their own mind.

If you don't have a partner (romantic or sexual), unless you state a claim, no one else has any clue as to your sexuality.

So, someone who has no partner is neither straight nor gay. Got it.

DUH! Haven't you been reading what zoinks has been saying? It's obvious that sexuality is defined by how others perceive you. Your personal feelings are just talk until you do the horizontal mambo. And because people choose to have sex, that means they choose their sexuality! Because everyone knows people always act according to their desires! Right?!

DUH! Haven't you been reading what zoinks has been saying? It's obvious that sexuality is defined by how others perceive you. Your personal feelings are just talk until you do the horizontal mambo. And because people choose to have sex, that means they choose their sexuality! Because everyone knows people always act according to their desires! Right?!

The point is that desires are NOT relevant to how people are defined.

Are you a bank robber if you desire to rob a bank but never actually try to do so?

Are you an astronaut if you desire to go to space but never try to get there?

Are you a billionaire because you desire to have a lot of money, even if you don't actually have a billion dollars?

Neither are you gay or straight or anything else because you desire something.

At 3/8/2015 3:37:58 PM, Maikuru wrote:Khaos already ended this thread in post 2. The rest is just for giggles.

Really? How's that? Because he disagreed? Is that all you have to do to end a discussion?

*rolls eyes*

I see you still have that problem with your eyes. You really should see a doctor.

Oops, I forgot, the medical profession are all liars.

I see you're still making everything into a joke because you have no actual argument to make on this.

Not everything, just your absurdity.

I suspect that deep down you know you're wrong, but you can't admit that - even to yourself - because it would change what you think you know about yourself.

I suggest you go stand in front of a mirror and read that aloud to yourself.

You don't want to admit that being gay is a choice because of the personal implications.

So why are you so obsessed with this subject? What skin do you have in this game?

As before, you keep pounding the same things over and over and over and over again. Repetition doesn't make it true. I know of many people who believe sexually orientation is a choice with much better arguments than yours who also fail.

No ones sexuality is determined by someone else's opinion.

And I refuse to read or respond to your inanity. I don't argue with 2 year olds, idiots, or you.

While I understand the sentiment, lying to yourself doesn't help anything.

DUH! Haven't you been reading what zoinks has been saying? It's obvious that sexuality is defined by how others perceive you. Your personal feelings are just talk until you do the horizontal mambo. And because people choose to have sex, that means they choose their sexuality! Because everyone knows people always act according to their desires! Right?!

The point is that desires are NOT relevant to how people are defined.

Are you a bank robber if you desire to rob a bank but never actually try to do so?

Are you an astronaut if you desire to go to space but never try to get there?

Are you a billionaire because you desire to have a lot of money, even if you don't actually have a billion dollars?

Neither are you gay or straight or anything else because you desire something.

At 3/8/2015 9:35:03 AM, zoinks wrote:While I used to rail against homosexual marriage, I now have no problem with it, because I just don't care about who marries whom.

However, I wish people would stop purporting the lie that being gay is somehow not a choice.

You choose who you are with, whether that follows your ultimate attraction or not. If you'd rather be with someone else, then go try to be with them.

Honestly, it's like saying being with a blonde is not a choice and you have to be with a blonde because that's what you're attracted to. Obviously you are choosing to follow your attraction and be with the blondes, or you could choose not to follow it and decide to be with a brunette or a redhead. It's entirely up to you.

In the same way, if you are attracted to the same gender, be with them if you want. Or choose to be with someone of the opposite gender if you decide that's what you'd rather do. Just don't try to lie and say it isn't a choice.

If being gay or straight or whatever isn't a choice, then nothing is ever a choice. We're just fated to make decisions before we ever actually make them, and all decisions are an illusion.

Prove being gay is a choice. Perform oral sex on another man then tell me if that somehow made you like men.

At 3/8/2015 9:35:03 AM, zoinks wrote:While I used to rail against homosexual marriage, I now have no problem with it, because I just don't care about who marries whom.

However, I wish people would stop purporting the lie that being gay is somehow not a choice.

You choose who you are with, whether that follows your ultimate attraction or not. If you'd rather be with someone else, then go try to be with them.

Honestly, it's like saying being with a blonde is not a choice and you have to be with a blonde because that's what you're attracted to. Obviously you are choosing to follow your attraction and be with the blondes, or you could choose not to follow it and decide to be with a brunette or a redhead. It's entirely up to you.

In the same way, if you are attracted to the same gender, be with them if you want. Or choose to be with someone of the opposite gender if you decide that's what you'd rather do. Just don't try to lie and say it isn't a choice.

If being gay or straight or whatever isn't a choice, then nothing is ever a choice. We're just fated to make decisions before we ever actually make them, and all decisions are an illusion.

Prove being gay is a choice. Perform oral sex on another man then tell me if that somehow made you like men.

DUH! Haven't you been reading what zoinks has been saying? It's obvious that sexuality is defined by how others perceive you. Your personal feelings are just talk until you do the horizontal mambo. And because people choose to have sex, that means they choose their sexuality! Because everyone knows people always act according to their desires! Right?!

The point is that desires are NOT relevant to how people are defined.

Are you a bank robber if you desire to rob a bank but never actually try to do so?

Are you an astronaut if you desire to go to space but never try to get there?

Are you a billionaire because you desire to have a lot of money, even if you don't actually have a billion dollars?

Neither are you gay or straight or anything else because you desire something.