But I lived thru the time when apple almost went under, and being a fanboy thru those times was tough. I don't want to see that happen again. My points; decrease the distance between your low end offering and what the PCs are offering to make the entry level Mac experience available to people who don't make 6 figures or have a rich daddy. There's plently of room to make margin AND increase market share. Second, the iPhone is great, make it greater with a few models, not just the one I have to buy. Last, start to focus on a server OS so the business and government market will take you seriously. A great tablet priced right will make my first point moot.

The iPhone gets the pat of the back these days and the iPod got it before, but the real “Halo effect” seems to be from the Apple Stores and maybe even the increased user base. People can finally play with and test a Mac for the first time with internet access at their local store. There is also something to be said for the switch to Intel which allows for a user to not have to give up Windows if they so desire.

I don’t see how that could happen. That is over 5x their current size in a worldwide market share of ever growing PC sales. Even at 25% that is Apple matching HP’s market share but taking about 70% of the total revenue for the world’s PC market. It’s just going to happen.

On top that, you can’t get rid of Windows by selling high-end products. That is not how markets work. For Windows to be hurt it will be an OS, like Chrome OS, that is free and will run on even cheaper HW than most Windows PCs. I think we’ll see see Chrome OS at the low-end, Windows in the middle and still maintaining their enterprise business, and Mac OS X for the higher-end retail.

that is probably the most sensible thing anyone has said to explain how the businesses work. instead of the usual "they just work" or "windows is going die"

sooner or later (after Ballmer), the other competitors will start getting their act together. You can see the players lining up against apple with the Droid. all these different models, and then there's RIM. . . . .

But when my daughter, who has used a Mac for the last 10 years asks for a cheap PC with 7, because she can't afford a mac, you're leaving the masses behind. There's a huge market for a lower cost computer, and by ignoring it, apple leaves the door open for the competition. And if she has to buy another one in a year because this one fails, so what, she can buy two for the price of one apple.

A few points:

1. Android is splintering like Linux. There are android 1.5, 1.6 and 2.0 phones being sold out there right now. Google is rumored to be coming out with its own phone that will have the "real Android" on it. An app developed for one version is not guaranteed to work on all other versions. This is not good for developers and not good for Android.

2. Apple's market share is growing quite healthily right now, there is no need to go down market. When market share growth stalls and they have run out of ways to restart it, then that's the time to look down market. Even then, going low cost will stand on its head everything that the Apple brand represented. They will only do this as a last, desperate measure.

3. The huge market in low-cost computers operates on razor-thin margins. There are only two reasons why anyone would want to swim in that pond: First, they need the market share to get network externalities and/or economies of scale, and second, they have no choice. (i.e. Windows PC mfrs would love to swim in Apple's pond but obviously very few people would buy PCs in the Apple price and feature range.)

So why would Apple want to spend precious resources (and cheapen their brand) by wading into the lower end of the market? They have the higher end all to themselves, and it is really not that small a market, plus it's growing by leaps and bounds right now.

Exactly so. This is the point missed by so many people who insist that Apple must go head-to-head with the entire Windows PC industry, including Microsoft, terrible margins and all. Apple has devised a much cleverer strategy of flanking the PC industry, one which has so far captured around 10% of industry's revenue. That's the amazing take-away fact.

The constant refrain I hear is "Oh why did I wait so long?" from recent switchers.

Spot on, twas was my refrain too a couple or so years ago. And that's what I keep telling new potential switchers, the only thing you will regret when going to apple is not doing it earlier. There is of course eventually some relief in knowing that eventually you did make the right choice, but there's some regret that lingers that If you 'd switched earlier on you be much more well versed with the platform.

Still, luckily, the day to day integrated computing experience of a mac/iphone/ipod and may I also say mobile me is pleasurable enough to compensate for some of the grief that you had to pull through with windows.

For people who have switched it's so refreshing to see how finally a computer services and enriches their life instead of the constant pain and struggle that was windows and how it all comes together and integrates with the mobility of the iphone.

Tec giants such as sony were absolute fools that they didn't start implementing their brand of unix in the early 00s and instead followed ms blindly. No wonder they are desperately trying to squeeze in some profit and corporate identity with other peoples second rate os's. That whole compatibility/established code and program base bait got them. Too bad for them, they lacked the vision.

Apple's stratagem of only targeting the rich niche consumer is seriously flawed.

Have someone read you the article you're responding to. Apple's strategy has been extremely successful - in spite of selling a premium product in a recession. Odds are that they'll do even better when the economy improves.

But feel free to provide your CV which would give any reason for someone to believe your view over Apple's $35 Billion in the bank and several years of steady growth in profits and market share.

Quote:

Originally Posted by teckstud

Also notice how they cleverly omitted that fact that during this past year Windows Vista was the only alternative and that it did "suck", therefore OSX was a viable alternative. It will be a whole new ballgame this year with the advent of the universally critically acclaimed Windows 7.

That's not true. Lots of people were still buying WIndows XP computers - although why you're bragging about that is beyond me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by teckstud

More like so overpriced and great marketing.

Sorry, but 'ovepriced' products don't generally do well when the economy is poor. Good marketing won't cut it. You have to give people a reason to part with enough money to buy a premium product - which Apple has clearly done.

After all, look at you - you're so full of envy that you're literally foaming at the mouth.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Apple's stratagem of only targeting the rich niche consumer is seriously flawed.

Sure they are making a profit, I can make a profit selling lemonade in front of my house, but it's not going to "change the world" for the better and vulnerable to changes in the larger market.

For instance any crap change on the PC side is reflected on the Mac side, because Apple can't compete unless it uses commodity PC parts.

The economy is going to deal Apple a serious blow in the consumer market for the next several years and with virtually no footprint in other markets to compensate, we are looking a implosion here if Steve passes away.

Apple is going to wish it hedged itself and paid more attention to business and government sales, which can sign off on hundreds of thousands of computers with a single pen stroke.

Do you really think these businesses and governments want the headaches and billions of dollars of data loss using Windows?

From what I'm interpreting, if Apple doubles its position it'll hold nearly 40% of all profits garnered in the entire PC Industry for consumer sales.

How long do you think vendors will continue to undercut their margins before they have to close their doors?

But I lived thru the time when apple almost went under, and being a fanboy thru those times was tough. I don't want to see that happen again. My points; decrease the distance between your low end offering and what the PCs are offering to make the entry level Mac experience available to people who don't make 6 figures or have a rich daddy. There's plently of room to make margin AND increase market share. Second, the iPhone is great, make it greater with a few models, not just the one I have to buy. Last, start to focus on a server OS so the business and government market will take you seriously. A great tablet priced right will make my first point moot.

They were down to a 5B market cap. They had several years to go before they were completely dead. Hell, they were able to buy NeXT for a $0.4B at the time.

More importantly is that they ARE increasing in market share while maintaining margins. This is the single most important aspect to look at. The problem with lowering a price or selling a cheaper item at a lower price point is not just that you make less money per sale even if you have the same margin, but that you are often required to lower the margin, too, in order to compete. On top of that, you risk hurting your brand by going cheaper. Many businesses have gone this route and have ben unable to build their mindshare back up once the brand name was soiled.

Apple did lower the prices of their notebooks this year. The MacBooks starting price is now $100 less than it was. This is way to build your user base. You do it systematically over time; you dont try to do it all at once. Each cheaper product opens up the door for more potential customers which often means you can sell at that level for even longer. When the $999 MacBook sales start to wane Apple will be forced to add more Pro features to make it more attractive and/or lower the price even more, each time the base of potential buyer pyramid will get larger. So far, they are doing better than anyone else and their momentum will carry them on for awhile.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

It's still rather strange how Apple continues to gain market share, revenue and cash reserve and yet the stock price continues to sit rather flat around $200. I'm basically comparing revenue to late 2007 when Apple was sitting at $200 a share. Surely Apple is making much more money now than they were two years ago since iPhone unit sales are much higher and desktop sales are somewhat higher. Investors seem to be getting the growth that Apple is supposed to maintain, yet there doesn't seem to be any excitement happening like there currently is with Amazon.

Apple being a stock that is claimed to have so much potential, yet not see hardly any upward movement just strikes me rather odd. Not a complaint, just scratching my head a bit. 16.4% sales growth is nothing to yawn at. At least I don't think it is. Apple will likely sell 9 to 10 million iPhones and 3 million Macs this quarter. Let's see what transpires.

1) alot of those websites deal with the iphone/smartphone section
2) alot of those websites are fan sites, so they will always be pro-apple as opposed to neutral (or as close as you can get)

i never said people arent satisfied with their macs, i said they just dont always work like everyone is brainwashed to think. its a piece of tech. there are going to be bugs, there will be system crashes, there will be driver issues, there will be PEBCAK errors.

Yet of all the surveys and reports that measure customer satisfaction, Apple rates highest consistently, year after year. Those fan sites pull their info from the sources of those reports and surveys, they don't make them up! You don't need to read my links, you can find them all on your own. And to add to that, Apple is selling *more* Macs during a recession.

It's still rather strange how Apple continues to gain market share, revenue and cash reserve and yet the stock price continues to sit rather flat around $200. I'm basically comparing revenue to late 2007 when Apple was sitting at $200 a share. Surely Apple is making much more money now than they were two years ago since iPhone unit sales are much higher and desktop sales are somewhat higher. Investors seem to be getting the growth that Apple is supposed to maintain, yet there doesn't seem to be any excitement happening like there currently is with Amazon.

Markets aren't entirely rational, to put it mildly. The run-up in AAPL two years ago was based on expectations of profits rather than the profits themselves. Now that the anticipated profits are a reality, a severe worldwide recession has intervened and broadly lowered the market's optimism for the future, which is what stock pricing is all about.

The excitement about AMZN I just don't get. Last I checked, they weren't growing nearly as quickly as AAPL.

I suspect the single biggest thing fueling Mac sales growth is, drum roll please, word of mouth. The stores, ads and iPhone/iPod will get a PC user thinking about switching, but it's the word of a trusted friend/relative that seals the deal.

Actually Windows has a lot of word of mouth too. It's just that it's mainly negative, neutral at best.

Yet of all the surveys and reports that measure customer satisfaction, Apple rates highest consistently, year after year. Those fan sites pull their info from the sources of those reports and surveys, they don't make them up! You don't need to read my links, you can find them all on your own. And to add to that, Apple is selling *more* Macs during a recession.

do you enjoy picking specific things out of everyone's post? does it make you feel like a forum warrior?

if you would read my post it says "i never said people arent satisfied with their macs, i said they just dont always work like everyone is brainwashed to think" that you just so happen to leave out.

I suspect the single biggest thing fueling Mac sales growth is, drum roll please, word of mouth. The stores, ads and iPhone/iPod will get a PC user thinking about switching, but it's the word of a trusted friend/relative that seals the deal.

Actually Windows has a lot of word of mouth too. It's just that it's mainly negative, neutral at best.

Im sure there is something to that. Plus, I come from a technical background and simply didnt want to tweak a computer when I got home. I know a lot of computer people that use Macs for the same initial reason. These people are also their family and friends go to person for tech support and have told them that if their next machine is not a Mac they will no longer assist them. I wonder how much of an influence computer people have had over convincing techtards to get Macs?

PS: If you had never seen a computer before and walked into a coffee shop or onto a college campus youd think that Apple made the only computer and that Facebook was the only thing you could do with it. This younger crowd usage will likely carry over as they age, making the Mac usage momentum carry on for generations in the retail segment.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Im sure there is something to that. Plus, I come from a technical background and simply didnt want to tweak a computer when I got home. I know a lot of computer people that use Macs for the same initial reason. These people are also their family and friends go to person for tech support and have told them that if their next machine is not a Mac they will no longer assist them. I wonder how much of an influence computer people have had over convincing techtards to get Macs?

ha,ha, same here. I have refused to offer service and assistance to friends and family members unless they switch. I 've told them bluntly, I refuse to run after this piece of crap fixing every moronic glitch it shouldn't have had in the first place. Get a mac.

From what I'm interpreting, if Apple doubles its position it'll hold nearly 40% of all profits garnered in the entire PC Industry for consumer sales.

Actually, that's not quite right.

Apple currently has 20% of REVENUES for the industry (so, if they double, they'll have 40% Of REVENUES). Apple's margins are higher than most PC vendors and their profits are MUCH higher, so they may already have 40% of PROFITS.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

do you enjoy picking specific things out of everyone's post? does it make you feel like a forum warrior?

if you would read my post it says "i never said people arent satisfied with their macs, i said they just dont always work like everyone is brainwashed to think" that you just so happen to leave out.

Like any other kind of tech. But Apple's record of "it just works" is far better than anyone else's. In fact, there is a significant difference in experience, hence the consistent satisfaction results.

Sorry, but 'ovepriced' products don't generally do well when the economy is poor. Good marketing won't cut it. You have to give people a reason to part with enough money to buy a premium product - which Apple has clearly done.

After all, look at you - you're so full of envy that you're literally foaming at the mouth.

Yes they do because only the rich can afford them. Do you think BMW or Lexus are suffering?

I like , I buy- once they meet my specifications. No blind fanboy purchases here.

Sorry, but 'ovepriced' products don't generally do well when the economy is poor. Good marketing won't cut it. You have to give people a reason to part with enough money to buy a premium product - which Apple has clearly done.

After all, look at you - you're so full of envy that you're literally foaming at the mouth.

The only way people buy overpriced products is if they feel forced to buy them. This is why we have rules against price gouging.

He wont understand that overpriced refers to an individuals feelings toward a product not the price of the product compared to the lowest tier in that general category.

Hes full of something and it doesnt smell like envy.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Only the rich can afford a $599 computer? Wow. Must be some new definition of 'rich' that I wasn't aware of.

It must stink to be earning less than minimum wage. I would have thought Microsoft would pay you better than that for your posting on these boards. Maybe you should look for a better job.

its $599 for just the box. nothing else. so assuming you want to use all your older stuff, then yes, its $599. however, if you want to use all apple branded stuff, the price can start to go up quite quickly.

its $599 for just the box. nothing else. so assuming you want to use all your older stuff, then yes, its $599. however, if you want to use all apple branded stuff, the price can start to go up quite quickly.

Why would you insist on an Apple monitor if you're on a budget? Most people have a monitor which will work just fine with the Mini. If not, Staples just had a deal on 22" monitors for $120 (less if you have a discount card). The monitor is irrelevant - if you don't have one, you'll need to buy it regardless of which computer you choose.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

its $599 for just the box. nothing else. so assuming you want to use all your older stuff, then yes, its $599. however, if you want to use all apple branded stuff, the price can start to go up quite quickly.

Jragosta point is solid. If the goal is to have a Mac so you can have Mac OS X then the rest shouldn’t necessarily matter. Apple’s monitor is on the expensive end for a consumer 24” LCD, but it is LED backlit IPS display that come with a camera, speakers and USB hub. Even has a power-passthrough for Mac notebooks*. Same goes for their wireless mouse and keyboard. If you don’t like them or want them you aren’t required to get them.

* I really wish Apple would have made the 24” LED ACD powerful enough to allow it power the Mac Mini so you wouldn’t have to use a separate power brick and wall outlet. A special adapter that clips into the MagSafe and then plugs into the back of the Mini. Saving on cable clutter is always a plus in my book.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Why would you insist on an Apple monitor if you're on a budget? Most people have a monitor which will work just fine with the Mini. If not, Staples just had a deal on 22" monitors for $120 (less if you have a discount card). The monitor is irrelevant - if you don't have one, you'll need to buy it regardless of which computer you choose.

i never mentioned a monitor. i said apple branded stuff, but now that youve brought the monitor into the game

$599 + your $120 monitor is still more than the avg windows pc that already includes everything.

please dont argue apple and budget in the same sentence. everyone knows apple does not cater to the budget community very well.

What Apple branded stuff do you need to buy in order to use a Mac Mini?

The correct answer, of course, is 'none'. You can use almost any old keyboard or mouse you have lying around - if it was purchased in the past 10 years, it will have a USB adapter.

And you're imagining the rest, too. I never said that the Mini was a budget computer. I said that, at $599, it was clearly within the reach of a much wider audience than 'rich people' as tekdud stated.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

I had been a "PC" guy since the very first IBM PC (2 single density drives, green monochrome monitor, 64k RAM). I bought the iPhone because it had to be better than the crappy Palm products I'd been using, particularly after Palm abandoned its LifeDrive customers (I used a standard cell phone and LifeDrive for my PDA).

The iPhone led to the purchase of the MacBook Air, which led to getting a Mac Mini for my Dad, which led to a Nano G5 which led to a MacMini for me. Oh, and I upgraded to an iPhone 3G and passed my 2G iPhone on to my son.

Apple hasn't been perfect, but it is MUCH better than my Windows/DOS experience to say the least. I am not surprised by these results.

Some do, some don't. Do you have a point or are you still trying to find out why everyone else seems to make enough money that they can afford a $599 computer while you don't? After all, you are the one who claimed you had to be rich to buy a Mac.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Some do, some don't. Do you have a point or are you still trying to find out why everyone else seems to make enough money that they can afford a $599 computer while you don't? After all, you are the one who claimed you had to be rich to buy a Mac.

Smart people can manage their money and research a product before buying to make sure it fits their needs. For instance, most people who bough the AppleTV with the v1 OS knew what to expect and how it fit into their home entertainment system. Take 2 and Take 3 added more features for free they didnt initially expect when buying the device, yet Teckstud has repeatedly stated that theyve removed features and that the device is less usable than it originally was. Im guessing hes not the kind of person who thinks before making decisions and we have AI posting history to back that up.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Apple currently has 20% of REVENUES for the industry (so, if they double, they'll have 40% Of REVENUES). Apple's margins are higher than most PC vendors and their profits are MUCH higher, so they may already have 40% of PROFITS.

My mistake.

Apple's current margins are > 35%.

However, 40% of Total Revenues still means 40% of total possible profit generation from the market being held by Apple.

Seeing as every company has differing operating margins let's take HP for example:

Their gross margins currently are 23.73%, but their profit margin is only 5.98%. Seeing as HP makes the bulk of their money from Printing, it's even scarier how low their gross margins are for systems.

It's clearly not in HP's best interest for Apple to swallow 40% Gross Revenues out of the PC world.

What Apple branded stuff do you need to buy in order to use a Mac Mini?

The correct answer, of course, is 'none'. You can use almost any old keyboard or mouse you have lying around - if it was purchased in the past 10 years, it will have a USB adapter.

And you're imagining the rest, too. I never said that the Mini was a budget computer. I said that, at $599, it was clearly within the reach of a much wider audience than 'rich people' as tekdud stated.

man you're a windowlicker... in everyway

you fill in additions that i in no way mentioned. so i did what you did. filled in phrases and mentioned things you didnt. enjoy windowlicker.

Some do, some don't. Do you have a point or are you still trying to find out why everyone else seems to make enough money that they can afford a $599 computer while you don't? After all, you are the one who claimed you had to be rich to buy a Mac.

I didn't say that and yes I can afford them and indeed I aready do. I simply said that in a bad economy the rich would be affected the least.

Smart people can manage their money and research a product before buying to make sure it fits their needs. For instance, most people who bough the AppleTV with the v1 OS knew what to expect and how it fit into their home entertainment system. Take 2 and Take 3 added more features for free they didnt initially expect when buying the device, yet Teckstud has repeatedly stated that theyve removed features and that the device is less usable than it originally was. Im guessing hes not the kind of person who thinks before making decisions and we have AI posting history to back that up.

Man - are you a pathological liar?
I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT, AGAIN- SHOW ME.
If anything I said the complete opposite with Take 3. They given me some of what I want.