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Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Your bees are on his field and you are wanting to change the way he farms? If you don't like it, do the right thing and buy or rent your own land and put your bees on it. As long as your bees are on someone else's land you have no recourse.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Haraga

Your bees are on his field and you are wanting to change the way he farms? If you don't like it, do the right thing and buy or rent your own land and put your bees on it. As long as your bees are on someone else's land you have no recourse.

its not just wanting to change one farmer or even 100. the key here is sustainability. It is not sustainable for mother earth to be polluted so willy nilly with out any RECOURSE

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Haraga

Your bees are on his field and you are wanting to change the way he farms? If you don't like it, do the right thing and buy or rent your own land and put your bees on it. As long as your bees are on someone else's land you have no recourse.

Do you have any knowledge what so ever of what is being discussed. A few posts back you yourself commented how much you were lacking when it comes to the capability of thinking.

Keith...seriously? I honestly thought you were more open minded.

Follow the scenario closely.....

Last year it was the last week of May....I had 100 colonies at my house.....there was a field down the road about 3/4 mile that had vegetation knee high and was full of white clover bloom......great I thought.....my bees were flying heavy in that direction and nothing but sunny Skys in the forecast. A few days later that field was no-till planted over the bloom. After that I was seeing dead bees piling up.....those hives struggled after that.....I had queen losses higher then normal. I moved those bees to 3 different honey production yards. At the end of the season-GUESS WHAT? The hives that came from there had the highest loss %. That's what happens every year. It's not all yards but when I notice yards with that type of kill during planting they have the highest deadout rate at the end of the year....even requeening the ones that fail early the end result is the same. It isn't even the same yards year after year.

Abridged version- FIELD FULL OF NECTAR PRODUCING PLANTS IN BLOOM, BEES WORKING AREA HEAVILY, FARMER NO TILL PLANTS WITH PRODUCT THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE POLLINATOR SAFE, BEES CONTINUE WORKING THOSE BLOOMS....BRINGING IT BACK TO THE HIVE.....FOR MONTHS THAT FOLLOW HIVES HAVE ISSUES.

If you, anyone not one person in general, doesn't see what is happening in what I just wrote about I don't know what to say.

A product is approved in a way where the manufacturer says there is no danger to non-target species yet the scenario, which is factual observation, proves them wrong.

Nothing against pesticides in general......nothing against loss of habitat....This isn't even about just ME. It's about our industry coexisting with other industries that share the same environment we do.

This happens over a very widespread area. It's not as simple as just moving down the road to another property.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Beeslave

Keith...seriously? I honestly thought you were more open minded.

I am very open mined, an a big fan of the free market place, I saw just 12 months ago a flood of bees without homes to place in the almonds, 12 months later a national bee disaster as they say. Myself, our numbers are the same many, many of my sub costomers are the same as well, I feel I have a pretty good finger on the pulse of the bee industry.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Beeslave

Sounds like you really need to pay attention to what you're reading. Not one time did I say anything about loss of forage. Thanks for showing your close minded ignorance.

That's the only thing I could come up with, for the greedy part, because I couldn't see where the farmer was greedy for planting his field. So I just figured the greed was because lost out on that honey. If you so smart become a chemist and fix the problem. By the way Clothianidin Would be chlorine, nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen and sulfur. Which one of those are the killer.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Ian

no Keith, Beeslave meant he/she honestly thought you were more anti everything minded,

No Ian. I thought since Keith is so intelligent....and I honestly mean that with no sarcasm.....that he would see what I'm discussing has to do with all pollinators. It's nothing about "anti everything".

What I've been arguing is defect in a regulatory agencies decision to allow something that previously was never used in the way it is used now.

Apparently Keith would be ok if I purchased land next to one of his large holding yards and knowingly did what I could to attract and kill as many of his hives as possible. After all....in a free market the more you can eliminate of the competition the better chance you have gaining his part of the market.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Just in case there's someone on Beesource I haven't irritated yet, I'll point out that there is a legal concept called "attractive nuisance." If, for example, you have a large beautiful swimming pool in your back yard filled with piranhas, a neighborhood kid who sneaks over your fence and get eaten will result in you getting sued out of your socks. If beekeepers weren't the redheaded stepchildren of agriculture, a case could be made that the farmer who failed to till in his clover prior to treating it with something that kills bees could be liable for damages for similar reasons.

I suppose if the affected beekeeper has pollination contracts, then not only has the farmer damaged the hives of that beekeeper, he has damaged the livelihood of the farmer who depends on those hives for pollination.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

A product is approved in a way where the manufacturer says there is no danger to non-target species yet the scenario, which is factual observation, proves them wrong.

. It's about our industry coexisting with other industries that share the same environment we do.

.

interesting that you use the word coexisting, yet it's only the farmer that has to change his practices.
did you have the dead bees and or comb tested to see what killed the bees. Maybe the farmer used a product that was Illegal, if so then you would have a recourse, right now all
we have is speculation.

mike syracuse ny
I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

It appears to me that Beeslave has determined that his bees were set back from chemicals used on a particular field. I was wondering why he didn't find out what the chemical was so that he didn't put his bees in harms way again?

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Beeslave

I thought since Keith is so intelligent....

Apparently Keith would be ok if I purchased land next to one of his large holding yards and knowingly did what I could to attract and kill as many of his hives as possible. After all....in a free market the more you can eliminate of the competition the better chance you have gaining his part of the market.

Shannor, 1) I'm just one keeper amoung many & I put my pants on one leg at a time, no different than anyone else.

2)it's not about eliminating anyone, it's about freedom of choice to do on your land(with in the law) as you see fit to make living.

Competition... I have that in the sub market... do you know right now the folks by in MN are running around Calif saying that there is just as good as Nutra Bee, I don't need to stoop to there level, I just consentrate on doing my job the best that I can do, the rest will sort itself out.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Because it's year after year. Not always the same area. Not all crop farmers operate the same. I am not the only Beekeeper to notice this in this area. I've reported it the last few years to a state inspector. He called me last spring to notify me he was seeing it in his hives when his neighbor no-tilled over an alfalfa field with dandelion in bloom. It's not easy to pinpoint where the source is when often these fields are hidden from view.

This is far from "Willy nilly speculation". It is proven that fugitive dust from treated seed can/will harm bees. It is proven that the affects myself and others see are the same effects on bees where studies using clothianidin are done. My field observations are over an extended period in various areas with the same common denominators again and again.

Keith stated "it's not about eliminating anyone, it's about freedom of choice to do on your land(with in the law) as you see fit to make living."...........this is exactly what I've been trying to get across......the procedure and materials being used are not working the way they were approved to to be used. That Is the flaw.