Post by aryassine on Sept 19, 2017 13:36:41 GMT

Wow 2 pages with no Morri-Insults or claiming how evil she is. What happens with the poor haters? I already miss them ;-)

@ Iddy

I got the same problem. When I have time, I will try a "clean" DAO-Walkthrough with no dialogue-changer-mods like the Morrigan-Restoration-Patch. I tried every constellation, but never got this certain line. IMHO only 2 reasons possible why its not come.1) A mistake of the wiki2) Mods which influences it somehow

Post by Iddy on Sept 19, 2017 14:00:31 GMT

Wow 2 pages with no Morri-Insults or claiming how evil she is. What happens with the poor haters? I already miss them ;-)

@ Iddy

I got the same problem. When I have time, I will try a "clean" DAO-Walkthrough with no dialogue-changer-mods like the Morrigan-Restoration-Patch. I tried every constellation, but never got this certain line. IMHO only 2 reasons possible why its not come.1) A mistake of the wiki2) Mods which influences it somehow

However if u found a solution please tell me.

I never found any.

Say, what is your favorite way and moment to start Morrigan's romance?

Post by Sifr on Sept 22, 2017 5:58:06 GMT

Say, what is your favorite way and moment to start Morrigan's romance?

I generally prefer to build up the friendship with Morrigan before starting the romance in earnest, so the Warden can have forged a connection with her beyond a surface, physical attraction. Usually I like to try and trigger it after these two conversations where you can make her laugh;

Morrigan: So confident and bold was I, yet there was much that Flemeth could never have prepared me for.Warden: Very daring, it sounds just like youMorrgian: *Laughs* Equal parts daring and foolhardy, perhaps.

Warden: Is Flemeth really what she seems to be?Morrigan: *Chuckles* Well that depends, does it not? What does she seem to be?Warden: A nutty old bat.Morrigan: *Laughs* Sometimes I do wonder the very same thing.

While she could have been pretending to enjoy the Warden's sense of humour to attempt to curry favour with them, she sounded more like she was genuinely amused by the Warden's responses and laughed despite herself. This ties into how (whether you romance or befriend her) the Warden is one of the few characters that Morrigan will let her walls down for. Doing these conversations early in my view, sets up their eventual relationship really well and gives more reason why the Warden would chose to pursue her.

Post by Prince on Oct 1, 2017 19:55:23 GMT

even without any romantic subplot as her friendship path is pretty much equally great

She's like Liara. Even if you don't romance her, she ends as the most loyal friend to you.

But I always romance her. She's b*tchy and fun, with true feelings buried deep inside. Extremely loyal, lovely and easy to get along with if you know how... simply precious.

Liara and Morrigan are completly different.Morrigan has no problem in abandoing the warden(regardless of approval)at the end game if they will refuse to save the AD spirit for her,whatsmore she even decieve them for the whole journey,regardless of approval,so I wouldn't define her as "loyal".She also deceived the Inquisitor at the temple of Mythal when she refused to fully reveal what she translated there,after she sworn to aid them at the best of her abilities in Skyhold.The word loyal is incompatible with her because she is way too much involved with deceptions in alla 3 games(including the Last court where she may disobey to the Marquis).

Post by izut on Oct 2, 2017 19:02:31 GMT

She's like Liara. Even if you don't romance her, she ends as the most loyal friend to you.

But I always romance her. She's b*tchy and fun, with true feelings buried deep inside. Extremely loyal, lovely and easy to get along with if you know how... simply precious.

Liara and Morrigan are completly different.Morrigan has no problem in abandoing the warden(regardless of approval)at the end game if they will refuse to save the AD spirit for her,whatsmore she even decieve them for the whole journey,regardless of approval,so I wouldn't define her as "loyal".She also deceived the Inquisitor at the temple of Mythal when she refused to fully reveal what she translated there,after she sworn to aid them at the best of her abilities in Skyhold.The word loyal is incompatible with her because she is way too much involved with deceptions in alla 3 games(including the Last court where she may disobey to the Marquis).

But the loyalty stays the same when it comes to its strength. It was Liara who saved Shepard's body and delivered it to TLM to bring her back from the dead. It was Morrigan who saved The Warden's life with the dark ritual if we chose this option (and I think most of us did). Liara had no problem in not helping Shepard in ME2 due to her own reasons but she came back to save the world in ME3. Morrigan was not a part of DA2 but she did come back in DAI to save the day anyway, all changed, just like Liara. Both characters seems to have the same, amazing developement, just different ways. Morrigan had to be softened while Liara had to be hardened. Morrigan doesn't want power, she wants knowledge. She always wanted a knowledge. She wants to preserve it too. Liara on the other hand needed the power and knowledge to achive her goals. Morrigan doesn't care if she'll achive her personal goals because those changed a great deal during DAO. I can be sure she'll come back as an enemy to Solas somehow and she'll most likely play a key role in defeating him in the future. Just like Liara played the key role in making sure the knowledge of current circle is sent among the stars in the entire galaxy just to make sure someone will find it soon enough to stop the reapers if they fail to do so, and of course, finding schematics for the crucible. TLDR, they're different but they're also very similar.

Post by Prince on Oct 7, 2017 12:29:50 GMT

Liara and Morrigan are completly different.Morrigan has no problem in abandoing the warden(regardless of approval)at the end game if they will refuse to save the AD spirit for her,whatsmore she even decieve them for the whole journey,regardless of approval,so I wouldn't define her as "loyal".She also deceived the Inquisitor at the temple of Mythal when she refused to fully reveal what she translated there,after she sworn to aid them at the best of her abilities in Skyhold.The word loyal is incompatible with her because she is way too much involved with deceptions in alla 3 games(including the Last court where she may disobey to the Marquis).

But the loyalty stays the same when it comes to its strength. It was Liara who saved Shepard's body and delivered it to TLM to bring her back from the dead. It was Morrigan who saved The Warden's life with the dark ritual if we chose this option (and I think most of us did). Liara had no problem in not helping Shepard in ME2 due to her own reasons but she came back to save the world in ME3. Morrigan was not a part of DA2 but she did come back in DAI to save the day anyway, all changed, just like Liara. Both characters seems to have the same, amazing developement, just different ways. Morrigan had to be softened while Liara had to be hardened. Morrigan doesn't want power, she wants knowledge. She always wanted a knowledge. She wants to preserve it too. Liara on the other hand needed the power and knowledge to achive her goals. Morrigan doesn't care if she'll achive her personal goals because those changed a great deal during DAO. I can be sure she'll come back as an enemy to Solas somehow and she'll most likely play a key role in defeating him in the future. Just like Liara played the key role in making sure the knowledge of current circle is sent among the stars in the entire galaxy just to make sure someone will find it soon enough to stop the reapers if they fail to do so, and of course, finding schematics for the crucible. TLDR, they're different but they're also very similar.

"Most of us are DR players"..... Wow where are your data to confirm that?there is none yet you make such claim.It is simply not possible to chek the millions of players who have DAI to check which kind of world state they have,but I can assume that many of them have the default,and that is an US.You also claimed that she will be present once again in the future to fight Solas,yet you have no data to confirm that as well.You also claimed that she is no interested in power yet DAO and DAI provide strong evidences of the contrary.Morrigan definetly didn't saved all Wardens(especially those who wanted to fulfill their duty) as there were many who had no interest in seeing the old god survive,(you know that same dragon who triggered the blight),so Morrigan saving the warden is not mandatory and therefore may be invalid to many players.

I don' see similarities with Liara,beyond the fact that they were developed by the same company.

Post by secretrare on Oct 7, 2017 12:34:58 GMT

Morrigan deceived the player character for a whole year because she was waiting for the opportunity to pray upon their fears in order to gain what she wanted,and what I have to hear?That she is loyal....

Post by izut on Oct 7, 2017 15:11:22 GMT

"Most of us are DR players"..... Wow where are your data to confirm that?there is none yet you make such claim.It is simply not possible to chek the millions of players who have DAI to check which kind of world state they have,but I can assume that many of them have the default,and that is an US.

Nah, I think most of us actually saved The Warden because when you have an oppoturnity to save your hero, you just do that. I've seen many playthroughs and only very few had the warden dead.

You also claimed that she is no interested in power yet DAO and DAI provide strong evidences of the contrary.

Saving an old god soul doesn't mean she wants power. She said it herself, she wants to preserve the knowledge. And saving gods is a good thing. The throne is empty and without any god to sit on it, the world will crumble like it almost did thanks to Solas. Don't forget his work is not done yet, he'll try again and again and again until he either succeeds or is defeated. If you kill all the gods, Solas's journey will be much easier. And don't forget that those souls can only be USED to do bad. They can be also used to do good. Just like magic, just like any weapon.

Oh, and I've never said anything what I say is a fact so saying something like this is wrong in the beginning.

Post by Prince on Oct 7, 2017 18:31:27 GMT

"Most of us are DR players"..... Wow where are your data to confirm that?there is none yet you make such claim.It is simply not possible to chek the millions of players who have DAI to check which kind of world state they have,but I can assume that many of them have the default,and that is an US.

Nah, I think most of us actually saved The Warden because when you have an oppoturnity to save your hero, you just do that. I've seen many playthroughs and only very few had the warden dead.

You also claimed that she is no interested in power yet DAO and DAI provide strong evidences of the contrary.

Saving an old god soul doesn't mean she wants power. She said it herself, she wants to preserve the knowledge. And saving gods is a good thing. The throne is empty and without any god to sit on it, the world will crumble like it almost did thanks to Solas. Don't forget his work is not done yet, he'll try again and again and again until he either succeeds or is defeated. If you kill all the gods, Solas's journey will be much easier. And don't forget that those souls can only be USED to do bad. They can be also used to do good. Just like magic, just like any weapon.

Oh, and I've never said anything what I say is a fact so saying something like this is wrong in the beginning.

*What you think,doesn't equate into what the data tell us about the generic world-states imported into DAI.As I've stated before,the majority of DAI imported world-states are the default of BioWare,and that is an US world.Beside the warden has various endings to survive that doesn't include Morrigan in any shape or form,so they don't need Morrigan to survive,especially those who want the dragon dead(once again that same dragon who murdered hundred of thousands of beings); of course there are also a lot of people who prefer for their warden to die in DAO rather than see them being poorly handled by BioWare in the sequels, and the US is the only opportunity to achieve that result.So of course I would say to end the first point,that no I don't think "you just do that" like if it was a must because it isn't.

*I know all the DA DLC,and in none of them there is any hint of Morrigan being revelaed as Solas next rival.She has nothing to do with Solas.

*The boundary between power and knowledge is almost insignificant, one can't be obtained without the other,so when you say knowledge that still translates into power.Morrigan stated agenda of preserving the past is undermined by the fact that she hordes secrets rather than share knowledge, despite expecting others to take great risk for her benefit,moroever we saw her plenty of times advicing the killing of others in order to obtain trivial benefits ,so yea that she is power hungry is a fact by this point.She had no problem in selling her body and that of her son to be merged with different souls in the hope of an increase in power,and that's why she got enslaved by her mother.

*The second part of your 3rd point is very confusing as you've mixed unrelated things.The empty throne has nothing to do with the old gods let alone with Morrigan,as that is a reference to the Maker,who legends says abandoned the throne exactly because of the worship of old gods that turned the world into a society of slaves,so I would actually say that the world of old gods was pretty bad and therefore there is no selfless reason for wanting to save these beings.Solas has never stated that he does like seeing the gods dead so that he could do what he wants,in fact I remember him hating the wardens for the opposite reason.Solas does in fact posess an ability that allows him to steal powers from other "gods" so I don't think he would like to see them dead given that knows how to use them for his own goals.

Post by izut on Oct 7, 2017 19:16:59 GMT

*I know all the DA DLC,and in none of them there is any hint of Morrigan being revelaed as Solas next rival.

Which is why I said "I can be sure she'll come back as an enemy to Solas somehow and she'll most likely play a key role in defeating him in the future."I can't see her standing side by side with him. He wants elves to be the superb race and humans pretty much all wiped out.

Sure. Fine. Whatever. Flemeth sent Mythal to her just like that bc why the heck not and Mythal will probably die of hunger trying to find her. Yup. Belivable scenario, lol. Nah, it's clear as sky Morrigan's story is not done yet and as mentioned above, I can't see her standing side by side with someone who wants the world to pretty much end for a human race.

Morrigan stated agenda of preserving the past is undermined by the fact that she hordes secrets rather than share knowledge, despite expecting others to take great risk for her benefit,moroever we saw her plenty of times advicing the killing of others in order to obtain trivial benefits ,so yea that she is power hungry is a fact by this point.She had no problem in selling her body and that of her son to be merged with different souls in the hope of an increase in power,and that's why she got enslaved by her mother.

1. Sharing dangerous knowledge can end up with creating a dangerous scenario with someone who can use this knowledge to do bad things. You can NEVER trust ANYONE with possibly most devastating knowledge that exist. So in this case I think she's doing a good job by keeping most of it to herself.2. Sometimes killing is better than not. And she used to advise to do so mostly at the beginning of her journey with Warden&Co but how can you blame her? She was raised by Flemeth in the swamp, far from civilization and other people. She had to learn. And she did learn. She tells you she never thought about friendship and having friends, she never thought it was even possible for her to be truly friendly with anyone. It was the warden, no matter if romanced, who changed that.3. Ha, but here you have a choice and if you chose to not let her drink from it, she's thankful. 4. Kieran was created to save the soul of the old god. She never though she could be a mother and yet, she became one and she even admits she became someone who she herself can't really recognize. This says a lot about her developement and how much she changed if allowed to have a kid (although she's siftened without Kieran too). Even Leliana points she's softened.

The empty throne has nothing to do with the old gods let alone with Morrigan,as that is a reference to the Maker,who legends says abandoned the throne exactly because of the worship of old gods that turned the world into a society of slaves,so I would actually say that the world of old gods was pretty bad and therefore there is no selfless reason for wanting to save these beings.

Not entierly. We don't really know what exactly happened between the gods, what exactly happened with the Maker (if he even existed) because those are all legends and judging by who started teaching them, I'd say they're made up. We know the world was in peace years ago ad Fen'Harel most likely tricked everyone and made things only worse before he fell asleep. And now he wants to bring the world to how it used to be and he's not going to stop even if he has to destroy entire Thedas and its people, modern elves included.

Solas does in fact posess an ability that allows him to steal powers from other "gods" so I don't think he would like to see them dead given that knows how to use them for his own goals.

I'm not so sure if he truly can take their powers tbh. It's tricky. He could've taken Mythal but he didn't. He chose to use demons and he fell in his own trap. He didn't go after freed Mythal who Flemeth sent through the eluvian either. Bad "gods" are the fake gods. Even Solas fought against them after they killed Mythal. He may be an evil god but he never took the power of any other real god.

I see you dislike Morrigan. I like her so I see her differently from you. This means we'll never agree with each other. Especially when you say what I say are facts based on non existent data which is not true in the first place and I don't know why you claim it. To start a long, heated and unecessary discussion? I'm not interested in it. I described Morrigan from my POV, which I have every right to have just like you have every right to have your own POV. That's all I'm going to say now.

I'm not from US so I'm not going to discuss US data. I'm calling to what I've seen people do in their pts of DAO and DAI. I've seen a lot of those, even recently since I'm back to playing the series again and I like to see other people choices.

Post by Prince on Oct 9, 2017 23:49:28 GMT

*As I've already stated before,there are no Data which confirms Morrigan's character to be present in any future DA products for the moment,therefore there are no hints that she will be involved in any way with the Solas plotline,so it seems to me that once again you've made a claim without any data that can be used to verify it.

*There are no Data which confirms that Flemeth ever gave anything to Morrigan,and David Gaider disproved that directly on the BioWare Forum when he was questioned about that.So once again we are in the case of the previous point that I had made,Morrigan has nothing to do with the plotline of Solas.

*I don't think she can do a "good job" about something she doesn't even possess in the first place,i.e dangerous arcane knowledge(as you implied),because:Well which kind of ancient knowledge she has beside the optional Well of Sorrow?The same well whom knowledge transmitted is restricted by the will of her owner Mythal?

*How or Why she was(and arguably still is by the time of DAI)an horrible human being is of no relevance if meant as a form of justification for her advices and/or actions,because by following that kind of logic anyone can be justified for whatever they do so long as they have the "environment excuses".

*Her desire of saving the soul of a being that is so vulnerable for his own nature to the corruption, makes what she did a bad move for the security of the world not the contrary just because it helped some player into avoiding their duties.The fact that she used the body of a child to fulfill in her own ambitions,makes it worse not better.And Good Mother who?someone who is so blinded by the promise of power that jumps at the well of sorrow regardless of the kid?

*Once again you are wrong about Solas and the gods.He did in fact with the veil removed major threats that were akin to obliterare the world(the Evanuris who were not fake gods,in fact there are strong hints that support the belief that they were all stronger than theold gods),and the part were I said that old gods were the gods of an empire of slaves is no legend either,is Tevinter history.

To finish,yes I do have my own POV about Morrigan (and also about those who likes her to be honest)and is not a good one in both cases, in the sense that I will never like nor agree with people who appreciate something from a character whom i perceive as to being completely degenerated.However within my previous post as well as this one(beside this last part )I only offered Data to disprove the claims that are often-time made to pamper this character but that are simply untrue at the moment.

Post by Mark7 on Oct 10, 2017 0:02:58 GMT

This character shouldn't be entitled to be present once again into another game because that would be her 5th unnecessary cameo.This thing of her jumping around the world to conveniently meet and steal spotlight from all the protagonists is getting tiresome and ridiculous.

Post by davesin on Oct 10, 2017 9:52:25 GMT

Well, she is one of the possible people who drank from the Well, along with Inquisitor. If there are going to be consequences (there should be, considering it's one of the decisions in the Keep and it is quite important to elven lore), she might appear again.Or maybe it will be "forgotten" because writers don't have any idea what to do it with. I would prefer Morrigan's cameo over that.

Post by carefull on Oct 10, 2017 12:44:56 GMT

if she does appear as "well of Sorrows" consequence, I hope we can finally kill her for good. I also do not mind in this one case to be handed a "Detailed Notes on All You Need to Know about the Well of Sorrows for Your Codex" by either "Yours Truly, Protagonist #3" or "Me Again, Morrigan the Bitch"

Post by izut on Oct 10, 2017 13:38:39 GMT

There are no Data which confirms that Flemeth ever gave anything to Morrigan,and David Gaider disproved that directly on the BioWare Forum when he was questioned about that.So once again we are in the case of the previous point that I had made,Morrigan has nothing to do with the plotline of Solas.

Designer notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.i.imgur.com/myXLPnI.pngWhich she did, as we've seen in the post credits. This is a fact which is still in the files while Gaider is no longer a team member.

And if we think about those notes deeper, it seems like the person who drank from the well is either free now (Morrigan) or is tied to Morrigan if she accepted Mythal (Inquisitor).

I'm not going to discuss this any longer with you. I don't need any data to share my opinions about her (most probable IMO) coming back based on what we've seen in the games so far which you simply can't understand and still try to force me, and others, to think I'm stating facts.