I agree of which autogoal it is a characteristic that moves away of the philosophy of kick off although personally to my I like. But you watches the modern games like PES or Fifa, completely are automated, these yes that are horrible games.

I hated how Goal! didn't give you a full screen, and same with KO2. That's why Sensi/SWOS was so good.

To be fair, I actually love retro-soccer games. SWOS is my favourite, Kick Off 2 and Goal! are great too. But I also really like the more obscure titles, like European Champions and I loved Striker back in the days. Unfortunately, Striker don't work too well with me today. But EC do, and I also played lot of Manchester united Premier League Champions and The Double.

Empire Soccer was good too, a bit like Speedball 2 meets Kick Off. Total Football was okay, played it a fair bit back in the days, but not that fun today.

But for some reason, I still like European Champions a lot.

frikilokooo: PES and FIFA is nowhere near as automatic as you make it out to be. Goal! is more comparable to the FIFA of the earlier Playstation days, like FIFA '99. In PES and FIFA today, you shoot in the direction you choose to shoot. Spin and such is automatic, depending on the players statistics, like in KO2 and Goal.

Autogoal = where ever you are in the six yard box.. you hit shoot and it`s an automatic goal.. this was toggle`able with Dino`s update of the megadrive/Genesis rom.. still there in the Amiga ver..
That put me off GOAL.

frikilokooo: PES and FIFA is nowhere near as automatic as you make it out to be. Goal! is more comparable to the FIFA of the earlier Playstation days, like FIFA '99. In PES and FIFA today, you shoot in the direction you choose to shoot. Spin and such is automatic, depending on the players statistics, like in KO2 and Goal.

If your press circle in PES to near of to corner the pass is only one direction.

In PES the direction of pass advanced you do not choose it, chooses the console.

In PES to shoot is automatic, the console corrects the angle so that it is not outside.

In PES the ball goes stuck the player you can play with the closed eyes.

In PES dribling successfully depends on the ability of the soccer player not of the ability of the person with pad.

Goal! is more manual and funny,the first impression to play the Goal! is: I do not have aim, ball always goes away outside! , the players lose the ball, simply is necessary to practice.

1) If your press circle in PES to near of to corner the pass is only one direction.

2) In PES the direction of pass advanced you do not choose it, chooses the console.

3) In PES to shoot is automatic, the console corrects the angle so that it is not outside.

4) In PES the ball goes stuck the player you can play with the closed eyes.

5) In PES dribling successfully depends on the ability of the soccer player not of the ability of the person with pad.

1) That's optional. You can turn that off. I have. Now it's completely manual.

2) Wrong. It passes exactly the same as in Goal!. Push the joystic in the direction of a player and press pass, like in Goal!. If there are no players in that area, the ball will go into empty space. Like in Goal!.

3) Wrong. You choose the direction of the shooting, and you choose the power. If you aim badly, you will surley miss.

4) No you can't, if you play with a bad player. If you choose to dribble with a bad player, you will have to really work to keep the ball. If you choose a good player, it will be easier. But it all depends on how well your opposition plays, doesn't it? You will need skill to dribble, and when done well, it's extremely satisfying.

5) both yes and now. It does depend a bit on the soccer player, but it greatly depends on the person with the pad as well. And you make it sound like there shouldn't be any difference between good and bad players in soccer games.

I have a feeling you haven't played much PES. It's the most realistic soccer sim ever created, and saying it's all automatic is pure ignorance. No offence.

What you said was not subjective, they were factual errors. And regarding your last post, I'm not entirely sure if you were being sarcastic or not. If you were, that's a shame. I just pointed out that the points you made were actually wrong. I didn't want to argue, I just thought it should be pointed out.

If you want to make points about certain aspects of PES, make sure you get them right.

Don't bother, Sid. I've been trying to recruit KOA members in this forum for 5 years, and I only succeeded once (with Haakon). The EAB boys simply don't like Kick Off. But I try not to hold it against them.

Kick Off 2 rules in my book.Sensi is cool and immediate but Kick Off has a ton more depth in it's subtle control that makes playing Sensi a little less satisfying.Kick Off changed my life frankly because it's the game that racked up the most hours on my Amiga - with a friend of course.Sensi was and still is a very smart game that in truth is maybe more realistic to the sport but players adoring Kick Off2 do so for a reason.Frustrating to hear people claiming Sensi as the best all the time , maybe it's because people can pick the controls up easier.It was extra time with all the tweaks that was the version i remember as being great , not sure.