Little Gray:I dont know what they cost now that the slim is released but you used to be able to get a 360 arcade new for $150. As for the tv that all depends on what you are going for. You can easily get a 32" hd tv for around $250.

I want to live where you live. Prices down here in Australia aren't quite as friendly [/me looks at PS3 launch of $1000. Seriously, who'd pay for that when you can get a PC for the same price that would blow it out of the water?]

While PCs are becoming more cost efficient and will probably match consoles in the next few years I dont think that really matters. I have yet to meet a single person who actually bought a console over a pc because of the price. The convenience factor just blows away any every single advantage a pc could have.

Hehe, go around the Internet enough and a lot of people take it as the, *cough*, cost effective option [And then buy 3 more Xboxs 'cause they bought first generation ones that RRoD and died. I've talked to people that have that happen. Its sad, but utterly hilarious at the same time].As for convenience, that really depends on the person and the lifestyle. Consoles are horribly inconvenient for me, and that's the reason I stopped at the PS2 and rarely even use that, whilst a PC fits my needs perfectly. Having a small device capable of playing games that you can take with you, and that doesn't cost as much as a laptop, works for some, the lack of need for a TV and far better multitasking and versatility works for others.

Maybe you could bargain for 700USD if you search for cheapest offers, but that's about itand for 700-800USD I can build you really good PC (good enough for Witcher2 to run on high or even ultra-I'm not familiar with Sleeping Dogs)

Then PC gaming remains too rich for my blood, brudda. Consoles are still cheaper for me.

Most probably it is geography thingIn Europe (especially North and East) consoles are better decision over building custom PC only ~6months after release of new console generation6-12 months after it is more or less same decisionAfter 2 years of new console release it is better to build custom rig, then to spend ~same money on console

P.S.You can say that financial life cycle of console in Europe is ~2years.

My 360 cost me around about the £250 mark in 2006 and it's lasted me this long. Show me a PC around that price, that can run FarCry 3 (just an example, first game I saw on my shelf) that I can just plug in and go with no faffing about and I'll make the switch. Till then console's will remain my primary source of gaming.

Perhaps PC Gamers that know how to build their own machines should share this art with their friends. Teaching their friends to build their own machines from the core components is a very liberating experience for their friends. Besides it would be very smart for them to merely observe their friend while they are putting it together, this will build their confidence. The transformation from a user to a admin is a very big deal and should be encouraged for everyone.

As for cost, ok so the PC is initially a greater outlay than a console, but with that said, even buying retail and not digital games, you're saving between £10 - £20 on a new release, so after 10 games, the PC has paid for itself there.

"But all that faffing about installing stuff."You put the disk in and click "Next" a few times, no more painstaking then say a firmware update, only this one lets me play other games whilst I'm installing this one.

The myth that PC's are difficult to build and maintain is just that, so long as you're reasonably smart.

I'm getting a bit sick of this. How about we see what happens when the next generation is out? There are reasons I play on a console, but so many people see it as a gaming dead end. Maybe it is. I will wait and see. It's not happened yet, and that's all I need to worry about.

MeChaNiZ3D:I'm getting a bit sick of this. How about we see what happens when the next generation is out? There are reasons I play on a console, but so many people see it as a gaming dead end. Maybe it is. I will wait and see. It's not happened yet, and that's all I need to worry about.

Because trend analytics and postulation are fun.

I'm serious, there is a lot of enjoyment from searching out leaked patents and various tech specs about new consoles allowing us to make a genuine speculative guess on features when combined with current gaming trends. :D

Rellik San:The myth that PC's are difficult to build and maintain is just that, so long as you're reasonably smart.

It doesn't even have anything to do with being smart, because assembling a PC takes barely an average amount of intelligence. When people say building a PC is the same as LEGO, they're really not exaggerating a whole lot. That is unless we're talking aesthetic shit like running wires around the insides of the case and whatnot; or a high-end setup on the level that is not relevant in any way to what's being talked about.

The problem here is a complete lack of patience in the worst way. Here's what we're talking about in terms of what it takes to build and maintain a PC. To build a PC, say once every four years, you need to take 2-3 hours out of your afternoon (that is, if you're being extremely careful and anal about it, which is completely understandable). That's it. Even failing that, you just find a good deal and buy premade.

Maintaining a PC is not some ritual either. For the most part, it's more than enough to rid the case of dust and change the thermal paste for your CPU/GPU once every two years, which takes maybe a half an hour. Furthermore, it's not really even necessary. You run a higher risk of something going wrong if you do nothing in that regard for like five years, but even in that scenario the chances of that happening are not any higher than your Xbox dying in that same period, in fact I'd bet on the opposite.

If you show how I can get a ground-up rig that'll run Sleeping Dogs (I pick it since it's a fairly graphic hoggy game) at 50FPS or better WITH the HD patch on max settings and no issues, I'll publically burn every console I own.

Exactly why would you expect that to happen for $250? Are you aware that this is not the level of quality consoles run games at?

While PC building isn't rocket science, it isn't that simple as wellpicking compatible motherboard-CPU combothen deciding what size and speed RAM you need and is it supported by motherboardthen same dance with GPUThen there is CPU and case cooling question (and picking the case if you have none)not to mention calculating necessary power feed(I also at this point have "large SATA2+ small SSD vs. medium SATA3" question)There is a lot of inet digging involved in planning

Rellik San:The art of building a PC summed up.As for cost, ok so the PC is initially a greater outlay than a console, but with that said, even buying retail and not digital games, you're saving between £10 - £20 on a new release, so after 10 games, the PC has paid for itself there.

Sadly it isn't the case anymore, now publishers for a most part are pricing games on all platforms equallyBUTThere are plenty of great games on PCSome are even free (like "Dwarf Fortress" for example)Not to mention mods for games (my FO3, FO:NV, TES5 and Minecraft are heavily modded, now I'm thinking of mixing things up in XCom:EU)

aelreth:The transformation from a user to a admin is a very big deal and should be encouraged for everyone.

This has to be the best reason for moving from a console to a PC. Others have already shown how it's mere laziness that's stopping people from playing on PCs, so I'm not going to touch on that one, as much as I want to.

Though there's something I'd like to add: why are the console users saying "find me a PC that can run [insert triple-A title here]"? Do they not know of non-triple-A games, at all? I use a 2009 laptop to game, and I can run FTL, The Walking Dead, and Serious Sam 2, to name a few great games I've recently played. You don't have to play the big, modern titles to have fun on a PC. To show how far back you can go with a PC, a month ago, I was playing Quake 2. And because I had excess power from my laptop, I could just ramp up the Anti-Aliasing to 8x. Pretty ace.

Because that's what I'll pay for a video game machine. It's what I've always paid, it's sort of my magic number price.

Not really seeing the point in assigning an arbitrary number like that for a number of reasons, from functionality to pricing models of the actual games.

Are you aware that this is not the level of quality consoles run games at?

Oh quite aware, yes. But PC's, being obviously so much better, should be up to the task of being better than that, right? And supposedly so much cheaper too..

Boy, you showed that guy.

On the substance of the claims you mentioned, there was a time when consoles were more cost efficient than PCs, thanks to the fact that they were sold at a loss and are standardized pieces of hardware. As a ballpark estimation, I'd say that time has passed us around 3 years ago. Right now I'm looking, having spent literally 30 seconds on the Internet, at a ~350$ PC that's several times more powerful than either of the main consoles (not familiar with WiiU's specs). I'm sure there are better deals out there.

Will the time when consoles are more cost-efficient return with the next gen? Maybe. Right now, neither Sony nor Microsoft seem to have any inclination to make their new consoles particularly powerful (especially on the side of Sony), so even if that time does come, it's really not going to be for long. Maybe a half a year. There's simply too much progress that has been made and too little a jump in power the next consoles promise to offer.

What you did here was strawman of the week material, though. Nobody ever said this is what you should expect from a PC[1], and you completely fail to take into account the aspects of having a PC that would make your statements about prices more than dubious.

Hammeroj:"I can't play [insert game] on max with three monitors for 250 bucks? HA! YOU LOSE PC MUSTARD RACE!", and you completely fail to take into account the aspects of having a PC that would make your statements about prices more than dubious.

Then why are such thing so ballyhoo'd about PC gaming in the first place? "Ha ha, console peasants, you still play at 20FPS!"

And show me a link to this 350 dollar monster machine, if you would...

Remaiki: Others have already shown how it's mere laziness that's stopping people from playing on PCs, so I'm not going to touch on that one, as much as I want to.

So I'm a lazy person because I don't want to learn tech to play with video games?

Yea, how many hours a week do you work, how many other activities do you engage in, ect? I want to find out, as you seem fit to call me "lazy" on the basis of what toys I play with, let's put YOU AND YOUR FUCKING LIFE under the microscope since you judged mine.....

Remaiki: Others have already shown how it's mere laziness that's stopping people from playing on PCs, so I'm not going to touch on that one, as much as I want to.

So I'm a lazy person because I don't want to learn tech to play with video games?

Yea, how many hours a week do you work, how many other activities do you engage in, ect? I want to find out, as you seem fit to call me "lazy" on the basis of what toys I play with, let's put YOU AND YOUR FUCKING LIFE under the microscope since you judged mine.....

I don't want to devolve this conversation into insults, but for your information, my first thought was: "aww, look how cute he is, thinking you need to 'learn tech' to play on PCs." May I direct you to something else I wrote?

Look at that. I use a laptop to game. Something I certainly did NOT need to 'learn tech' for. You can buy a loaf of bread, right? Well, you can buy a laptop.

Oh, and you asked me about 'how many hours a week I work?'. I'm actually still in education. As in, secondary school. It's entertaining how you, evidently an adult, seem to think you need to 'learn tech' to play on a PC.

Look at that. I use a laptop to game. Something I certainly did NOT need to 'learn tech' for. You can buy a loaf of bread, right? Well, you can buy a laptop.

Cost?

I believe it was £400. A worthwhile investement, seeing as it offers up a wealth of non-triple-A games, the ability to use it like a console if I wanted (I personally still use mouse and keyboard) and Steam giving me quite a lot of games for not-quite-a-lot of money.

Oh, and you asked me about 'how many hours a week I work?'. I'm actually still in education. As in, secondary school.

Then as someone who fucking works for a living 40+ hours a week, you'll excuse me if I'll dismiss your claim that I'm "lazy" on the basis of what medium I play with toys on.

Yay! Elitism based on whether one works or not! Y'all see, if I was older and not working, I'd be inclined to direct you back to your Daily Mail. Scroungers, and all that.

So no, I won't excuse you if you dismiss my claim that you're lazy.

Oh, and another thing: you seem to be insinuating that the 'medium [you] play with toys on' is somehow easier to set up than a PC(evidenced by you getting angry over the 'education' comment), despite the fact I was explaining that this is simply not the case.

Compared to elitism based on what video game medium you play on, damn right. You going to call me lazy, you come do what I do on a daily basis sunshine. You see if you can take in this much grease, smoke, customer idiocy, and machine noise for 10 plus hours a day.

And that's not counting all the other shit in keeping up the house (my SO can't cook or clean for shit).

I don't normally pull the "elitism based on whether one works or not", but honey, you pulled the "you're just lazy" card and went there. You wanted to pass character judgements. So we're going that way.

h, and another thing: you seem to be insinuating that the 'medium [you] play with toys on' is somehow easier to set up than a PC(evidenced by you getting angry over the 'education' comment), despite the fact I was explaining that this is simply not the case.

Yes, it is. I don't have to know what graphic card to install, what drivers to worry about, sure as shit don't need to sweat over my cooling system or multiple monitors either.

By the way, I'm in the US, so no DailyMail. We already have Fox News, and that's more than bad enough to put up with...

Hammeroj:"I can't play [insert game] on max with three monitors for 250 bucks? HA! YOU LOSE PC MUSTARD RACE!", and you completely fail to take into account the aspects of having a PC that would make your statements about prices more than dubious.

Then why are such thing so ballyhoo'd about PC gaming in the first place? "Ha ha, console peasants, you still play at 20FPS!"

I'd appreciate it if you responded to the entirety of my post, but whatever. Remember how I said your last post was strawman of the week material? Well the bolded part is jumbled sentence of the week. I have little clue as to what you're trying to say (especially in response to what you quoted), and thank god I don't care enough to try to decipher it.

As to the silly quote you think is some sort of a point. Good grief, this guy again! You better tackle him! The point being people rarely, I'd say easily less than 5% of the time actually get personally addressed when the topic is the power of consoles. What they do, and you seem to be doing here, is take stuff like "Xbox360 is shit" (condensed) as some sort of a personal insult.

What you, and all those other people in every single console related thread crying about being insulted by the elusive PC elitists, need to do is detach yourself emotionally from the hardware you own. When you actually read any of the posts pointing out how good or bad any particular piece of hardware is, you need to really actually get through the post and see if you're actually being addressed in any way.

And show me a link to this 350 dollar monster machine, if you would...

Sure. Two things, though. You'll have to make the currency exchange yourself, and I don't think you have a good idea of just how weaksauce the current consoles are. Nobody said it's a monster machine.

Remaiki: Others have already shown how it's mere laziness that's stopping people from playing on PCs, so I'm not going to touch on that one, as much as I want to.

So I'm a lazy person because I don't want to learn tech to play with video games?

I'm pretty sure the person didn't mean lazy as a summation of your character, and I'm having a hard time understanding why you'd see it that way. People are lazy about different things, the fact that you may be lazy at one doesn't mean you're lazy at everything. If the inability to spend a couple of hours (or ask a friend who knows about this stuff, or ask a shop assistant, etc.) is all that's preventing you from becoming a PC gamer, then that's laziness, straight and simple.

Drop the high-horse shtick about having a job, this has nothing to do with anything.

"Are PCs more powerful than consoles while still cost efficient?""Sure! You only need to look for X, Y and W while not buying at A or B and don't buy C because it has weaker performance than D and conflicts with E."

..That's a problem.

As it stands, i see the difference between consoles and PCs similar to the Difference between Android Devices and Apple iPhones and iPads. You can buy Android Devices that are much more powerful than an iOS Device, and it is a much more open platform, but at the same time there is a risk that you may have a worse experience than others for reasons that you may have to research, or because of a common problem of that specific hardware that can't really be fixed. With an iPhone, you get just about the same experience as everyone else, wich is much more restrictive but also safer and more intuitive.

Only that of course, Consoles are also chaper than PCs.

And if you want to turn a PC into a living room game console, there's a bunch of additional problems. Building a HTPC (as in a PC in a small, living room friendly case) or buying a Laptop (wich is small and highly portable, but also negates a bunch of advantages of the PC) costs much more than a normal PC and no matter how, even with Steam Big Picture and everything, if you want to play all the current games you'll have to put up with multiple User Interfaces that are not very living room friendly.

And last but not least: Consoles are still a lot more open when it comes to DRM. Less so than they used to, with Digital Downloads, Online Passes and all, but i can still take my copy of Gears of War and play it on the 360 of a friend.

As it stands, preferring Consoles over PCs hasn't only something to do with being to lazy as to put some effort into the initial setup, but having to deal with a lot of compromise when it comes to just about everything.

What you, and all those other people in every single console related thread crying about being insulted by the elusive PC elitists, need to do is detach yourself emotionally from the hardware you own.

We're not the ones calling ourselves a "master race".

I'm pretty sure the person didn't mean lazy as a summation of your character, and I'm having a hard time understanding why you'd see it that way. People are lazy about different things, the fact that you may be lazy at one doesn't mean you're lazy at everything. If the inability to spend a couple of hours (or ask a friend who knows about this stuff, or ask a shop assistant, etc.) is all that's preventing you from becoming a PC gamer, then that's laziness, straight and simple.

Drop the high-horse shtick about having a job, this has nothing to do with anything.

I'll drop it when people stop speculating about my genetic heritage and work ethic based on what I play my video games on. Don't want us to take the issue personally, stop making character judgments on us based on it!

What you, and all those other people in every single console related thread crying about being insulted by the elusive PC elitists, need to do is detach yourself emotionally from the hardware you own.

We're not the ones calling ourselves a "master race".

Wow. Do you really think people call themselves a master race? Do you think people actually use a phrase that I seem to recall starting off as a joke on Zero Punctuation to describe themselves in a non-ironic fashion?

Are you unable to answer in something other than a one-or-two sentence non-sequitur?

I'm pretty sure the person didn't mean lazy as a summation of your character, and I'm having a hard time understanding why you'd see it that way. People are lazy about different things, the fact that you may be lazy at one doesn't mean you're lazy at everything. If the inability to spend a couple of hours (or ask a friend who knows about this stuff, or ask a shop assistant, etc.) is all that's preventing you from becoming a PC gamer, then that's laziness, straight and simple.

Drop the high-horse shtick about having a job, this has nothing to do with anything.

I'll drop it when people stop speculating about my genetic heritage and work ethic based on what I play my video games on. Don't want us to take the issue personally, stop making character judgments on us based on it!

Did you read anything I just wrote? Jesus. If somebody calls you lazy in the context of building a computer, which is what you are if you can't be arsed to learn about it, that doesn't sum up your entire character or otherwise pertain to whether or not you have a fucking job.

This is simple shit, and the only reason you don't want to stop doing shit like this is because you don't seem to have a proper response. For anything. If you're lazy about learning about PCs, admit it, own it and move on.