I think Alonso fans slighly lost perspective because of the two consecutive WDC. Winning a WDC is MEGA hard. Being a double WDC is still great, and it wouldn´t be any crime to end a career like that.

I think Alonso has said as much in the past. They asked if he would be upset if he retired with only 2 WDCs, and he replied with something along the lines of "no, i would just be happy that i had a succesful career doing something i enjoy".

I agree, but if he fails to win a championship at Ferrari he will be deemed, by many, to be a failure.

Like the McLaren guys, Alonso during the last two years didn't have a car that would absolutely demand a (top-)driver to become WDC. In reality, 2010 should have been as straightforward as 2011 for Red Bull, they just made it harder than necessary.

Now IF one year Ferrari is as competitive as in the last 4 races, BUT over a whole season and IF during such a season Alonso doesn't pull it off, only THEN he will rightfully considered a failure. So far I'd say he just failed to perform a miracle.

Like the McLaren guys, Alonso during the last two years didn't have a car that would absolutely demand a (top-)driver to become WDC. In reality, 2010 should have been as straightforward as 2011 for Red Bull, they just made it harder than necessary.

Now IF one year Ferrari is as competitive as in the last 4 races, BUT over a whole season and IF during such a season Alonso doesn't pull it off, only THEN he will rightfully considered a failure. So far I'd say he just failed to perform a miracle.

Yes but the difference is that Alonso was fighting the championship there and Lewis not ;)

Yep Alonso had more need to overtake than Hamilton but since when has Lewis happy to sit back if there is not much to gain. The Lewis I know simply goes for it - and the hell with saving tyres / fuel etc etc even at the cost of victory / titles. And I m sure you follow him exactly for that.

At the time - I had fun at Alonso's expense (apologies to fans ) - but having seen the race couple of times now - its clear that the Renault was a decent car and could only be overtaken if drivers made a mistake. The only criticism which may be laid at Nando's step was not able to force a mistake !

That is still fine because he did try thuogh even when he had too much to lose if he crashed and it so turned out that Vettel DNFed later on !

Anyway the bigger point is that Alonso was in a better position than Hamilton / Webber / Vettel by some good driving over the last few races.

He can easily win at least 2 championships by the end of his current contract. It'll be criminal if he ended his career only as a double WDC. I still can't believe he hasn't won a title for 5 years!

I don't think Alonso would have to be ashamed of having "only" two titles. However, I see what you want to say. As an Alonso-fan it's annoying to me that Vettel had two years with a car which was one second faster than any other car. Now the Red Bull don't have that edge over the field and Seb cannot win races. I don't want to blame him, but I live in my own dream and I always hope of having cars at the front which are quite similar pace-wise.

I don't think Alonso would have to be ashamed of having "only" two titles. However, I see what you want to say. As an Alonso-fan it's annoying to me that Vettel had two years with a car which was one second faster than any other car. Now the Red Bull don't have that edge over the field and Seb cannot win races. I don't want to blame him, but I live in my own dream and I always hope of having cars at the front which are quite similar pace-wise.

I can imagine a few fans might be upset if Vettel sees this one out (i can easily forsee a thread titled 'worst/luckiest 2x WDC' or something along them lines) but its not like either of them will ever be unable to win titles. Alonso/Ferrari will surely come good one year where they have the best car. We've seen it with Vettel - that may even continue or happen again in the future. Alonsos year will come, as will Hamiltons and some other drivers down the line.I just don't agree with the '1 second faster than the lot' part. On average this year, the Mclaren has been barely behind and could easily have had 6 or 7 wins. Ferrari yes they've been a second off at times but they're definately not now.

There is no doubt in that that Alonso belongs to the greatest drivers ever in F1,whether he is the best or not we will see, there is plenty more to prove for him.till now he is doing a great job, among the best.

I don't think Alonso would have to be ashamed of having "only" two titles. However, I see what you want to say. As an Alonso-fan it's annoying to me that Vettel had two years with a car which was one second faster than any other car. Now the Red Bull don't have that edge over the field and Seb cannot win races. I don't want to blame him, but I live in my own dream and I always hope of having cars at the front which are quite similar pace-wise.

How are you sure? Rb7 could be a sec faster / 2 sec faster machine ? If we extend conventional logic from the past 2 years - maybe RB7 is still be a lot faster and the drivers are simply stuffing it up !

We still do not know for sure the exact performances of the cars in isolation (separate from drivers) so saying the cars are matched somehow looks hogwash to me.Seb won the title and on way to another ! thats the only certain fact ..

How are you sure? Rb7 could be a sec faster / 2 sec faster machine ? If we extend conventional logic from the past 2 years - maybe RB7 is still be a lot faster and the drivers are simply stuffing it up !

We still do not know for sure the exact performances of the cars in isolation (separate from drivers) so saying the cars are matched somehow looks hogwash to me.Seb won the title and on way to another ! thats the only certain fact ..

To sum up the last one and half year: Red Bull have been the best in qualy by far expect two-three qualies (Monza last year, Spa last year, Nürburgring this year), sometimes they have had ONE second over the rest, this is ridiculous! In the race they don't have that edge, but they always have the pace for win and usually they have been two-three tenths ahead of the rest. I always say: Seb always gets up on Satrudays knowing he will get the first or second place on the grid. As for Fernando: he has to fight for the thrid or fourth place and has to take huge risk while Seb can easily afford to do some mistakes in his laps. I really think Fernando's qualy lap in Barcelona and Lewis's qualy lap in Germany were the best I have seen for a couple of years. I don't want to blame Seb, but he has had such an easy time in the first half of the season. If he can beat Lewis and Fernando in a close battle, I think, people will start to think 'okay, this guy is superb', but for me he was horribly bad under pressure for the last GPs.

To sum up the last one and half year: Red Bull have been the best in qualy by far expect two-three qualies (Monza last year, Spa last year, Nürburgring this year), sometimes they have had ONE second over the rest, this is ridiculous! In the race they don't have that edge, but they always have the pace for win and usually they have been two-three tenths ahead of the rest. I always say: Seb always gets up on Satrudays knowing he will get the first or second place on the grid. As for Fernando: he has to fight for the thrid or fourth place and has to take huge risk while Seb can easily afford to do some mistakes in his laps. I really think Fernando's qualy lap in Barcelona and Lewis's qualy lap in Germany were the best I have seen for a couple of years. I don't want to blame Seb, but he has had such an easy time in the first half of the season. If he can beat Lewis and Fernando in a close battle, I think, people will start to think 'okay, this guy is superb', but for me he was horribly bad under pressure for the last GPs.

But Why? That is exactly what I am saying ... If we put the massive lead down to the car, then its equally possible to extend it a bit more and say RB7 was 2 Secs ahead but Seb was pulling it down to 1 Sec.

Now the car has lost relatively to others but is still 1 Sec faster , but then again since Seb drags down the car by a second (as we all know) it looks matched in pace with others now.

So - my point is if Seb beats Ham and Alonso in close (looking) battles it's still no proof that Seb is a great driver !!Same as when Seb blew them by 30 secs - it wasnt proof that it was all CAR!!

As far as I m concerned the bigger the margin the better it reflects on the winning driver ...

Late tonight, Fernando Alonso will arrive in Madonna di Campiglio where tomorrow he will take part in the second day of Wrooom Summer 2011, but his name already came up today as the media met with Stefano Domenicali. “For me, Fernando is the Number 1 driver in Formula 1 at the moment,” said the Scuderia Team Principal. “I see a lot of similarities with Michael Schumacher, a driver who made his mark on our history. In fact, in some areas Fernando is even better, for example when I think of the speed with which he integrated himself into the team and the way he became its leader. In this he was much quicker than Michael who took a while to do that.”

The best thing Ferrari ever did in the history of the sport is hire Alonso. He is by far the best driver on the field. No matter what car he is in, no matter what position he is in, whether he is fighting from last place or at the front, he never stops fighting and trying to improve his position until after he's crossed the finish line. He has the fighting spirit that very few drivers in the sports history have had, drivers like Senna and the great Mika Hakkinen who so kicked schumi's ass is who I rate Alonso up there with. For me, Alonso should be in the F1 Drivers Hall of Fame / Legends list.

I so hope Seb and RBR screw up more this year and Alonso wins the title!

Typical Stefano, ass licking and justifying his decision to ditch Kimi and take Alonso,...so that he can feed his ego! Alonso came in Ferrari where the hardwork of the dream team already established, a team which has won 6 WDC and 8 WCC in the past decade.. and he just has to reap the fruits straight of the tree.....but still he has not managed to win the WDC yet! Whereas Schumacher came to Ferrari when it has just won 4 races in the last decade, and not won a WDC in 16 years!Really Schumacher and his dream team is what revived Ferrari from the bug downward spiral.....without them Ferrari would have been like Williams now

Typical Stefano, ass licking and justifying his decision to ditch Kimi and take Alonso,...so that he can feed his ego! Alonso came in Ferrari where the hardwork of the dream team already established, a team which has won 6 WDC and 8 WCC in the past decade.. and he just has to reap the fruits straight of the tree.....but still he has not managed to win the WDC yet! Whereas Schumacher came to Ferrari when it has just won 4 races in the last decade, and not won a WDC in 16 years!Really Schumacher and his dream team is what revived Ferrari from the bug downward spiral.....without them Ferrari would have been like Williams now

The best thing Ferrari ever did in the history of the sport is hire Alonso. He is by far the best driver on the field. No matter what car he is in, no matter what position he is in, whether he is fighting from last place or at the front, he never stops fighting and trying to improve his position until after he's crossed the finish line. He has the fighting spirit that very few drivers in the sports history have had, drivers like Senna and the great Mika Hakkinen who so kicked schumi's ass is who I rate Alonso up there with. For me, Alonso should be in the F1 Drivers Hall of Fame / Legends list.

I so hope Seb and RBR screw up more this year and Alonso wins the title!

If he is the best in the field, how did he get his ass kicked by a complete rookie in the Same car?

Because Ron Dennis is an egotistical prick who prefered to favor a driver he spent a lot of money financing over his racing career, then the established F1 champion. Everyone knows the only reason Hamilton did so well was because mclaren screwed over alonso in favor for their love child hamilton. Hamilton is a tosser who doesn't even deserve his drive in F1.

Because Ron Dennis is an egotistical prick who prefered to favor a driver he spent a lot of money financing over his racing career, then the established F1 champion. Everyone knows the only reason Hamilton did so well was because mclaren screwed over alonso in favor for their love child hamilton. Hamilton is a tosser who doesn't even deserve his drive in F1.

Because Ron Dennis is an egotistical prick who prefered to favor a driver he spent a lot of money financing over his racing career, then the established F1 champion. Everyone knows the only reason Hamilton did so well was because mclaren screwed over alonso in favor for their love child hamilton. Hamilton is a tosser who doesn't even deserve his drive in F1.

Yep, but don't waste your breath. Lewis Hamilton fans are as blind to the facts as Lewis Hamilton is as blind to respecting rules and other people. I guess that's why Hamilton fans are so much in common with the man himself, because they're all arrogant gits like him.

Yep, but don't waste your breath. Lewis Hamilton fans are as blind to the facts as Lewis Hamilton is as blind to respecting rules and other people. I guess that's why Hamilton fans are so much in common with the man himself, because they're all arrogant gits like him.

Why do Lewis fans hate Alonso so much? Its just the way the world works. The reason Alonso fans hate lewis is because his actions were detrimental to Alonso and the press and Mclaren made Alonso out as the bad guy when Lewis was the bad guy. Ask any driver who has competed with Lewis before he entered F1. He is an arrogant git who has had his racing career and his life easy thanks to mclaren while more talented drivers struggle.

Why do Lewis fans hate Alonso so much? Its just the way the world works. The reason Alonso fans hate lewis is because his actions were detrimental to Alonso and the press and Mclaren made Alonso out as the bad guy when Lewis was the bad guy. Ask any driver who has competed with Lewis before he entered F1. He is an arrogant git who has had his racing career and his life easy thanks to mclaren while more talented drivers struggle.

Why do Lewis fans hate Alonso so much? Its just the way the world works. The reason Alonso fans hate lewis is because his actions were detrimental to Alonso and the press and Mclaren made Alonso out as the bad guy when Lewis was the bad guy. Ask any driver who has competed with Lewis before he entered F1. He is an arrogant git who has had his racing career and his life easy thanks to mclaren while more talented drivers struggle.

One thing that should be mentioned about the Hungary 2007 incident mentioned in a link earlier is that it is clear that Alonso expected Hamilton to renege on the team arrangement (introduced to ensure fairness) and was ready for it.

Anyway, it was clear that McLaren had a choice to make about which driver to keep for 2008 and after. They staked the fortunes of the team on Lewis's ability to lead the team and challenge for championships. After two years, they recruited another reigning World Champion. I wonder if they ever consider whether they made the right choice at the end of 07?

Why do Lewis fans hate Alonso so much? Its just the way the world works. The reason Alonso fans hate lewis is because his actions were detrimental to Alonso and the press and Mclaren made Alonso out as the bad guy when Lewis was the bad guy. Ask any driver who has competed with Lewis before he entered F1. He is an arrogant git who has had his racing career and his life easy thanks to mclaren while more talented drivers struggle.

You are so right! That's why he still good friend with most of his teammates ( Heikki & Adrian). None of his ex teammates like him...

Because Ron Dennis is an egotistical prick who prefered to favor a driver he spent a lot of money financing over his racing career, then the established F1 champion. Everyone knows the only reason Hamilton did so well was because mclaren screwed over alonso in favor for their love child hamilton. Hamilton is a tosser who doesn't even deserve his drive in F1.

You do realise that Ron Dennis/ McLaren spent more money on hiring Alonso than he did on supporting Hamilton's junior career.

Are you suggesting Alonso is a pay driver? Albeit, I suspect you assertion is wildly false.

Every great driver is in the way you say it, a pay driver.

In reality every great driver attracts sponsors which pay due to him more to the team.

BUT in alonsos case it was a precedenceCOZAlonso was the first spaniard WDC and therefore some new sponsors came to f1 (similar to MS and german sponsors, although in case of ms there were already constructors in f1, so alonsos case, is pretty unique in that sense).

There's plenty in that linked article for YellowHelmet to get his teeth into - he hates biased journalism.

Yep, but don't waste your breath. Lewis Hamilton fans are as blind to the facts as Lewis Hamilton is as blind to respecting rules and other people. I guess that's why Hamilton fans are so much in common with the man himself, because they're all arrogant gits like him.

I guess you must be one then.

Why do Lewis fans hate Alonso so much? Its just the way the world works. The reason Alonso fans hate lewis is because his actions were detrimental to Alonso and the press and Mclaren made Alonso out as the bad guy when Lewis was the bad guy. Ask any driver who has competed with Lewis before he entered F1. He is an arrogant git who has had his racing career and his life easy thanks to mclaren while more talented drivers struggle.

Perhaps you could cite some sources for this claim?

look for yourself how much money santander brought to mclaren, and there was an other spanish sponsor, too.dont be to lazy.

If you make a claim, please be prepared to back it up with references rather than ask others to do your work for you. Calling them lazy for failing to do something that is your responsibility is compounding laziness with hypocritical rudeness.

look for yourself how much money santander brought to mclaren, and there was an other spanish sponsor, too.dont be to lazy.

If you make a claim, please be prepared to back it up with references rather than ask others to do your work for you. Calling them lazy for failing to do something that is your responsibility is compounding laziness with hypocritical rudeness.

Thanks Slartibartfast

now YellowHelnet plz give us a link, if you cant then we will think its not true