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20111024 interview

Audio

Transcript of oral history interview conducted with
###### on October 24, 2011 for the
University on the Square: Documenting Egypt’s 21st Century Revolution project
Interviewer:
This is an oral history interview for the American University in Cairo, University on the Square: Documenting Egypt’s 21st Century Revolution project. The interviewee is ######, and the interviewer is ######, the date is twenty, October twenty fourth, 2011 and we are in the PVA studio. Please give your name and your connection with AUC.
Interviewee:
My name is ######, I'm a senior in AUC studying Journalism, Political Science and Rhetoric and Composition.
Interviewer:
When did you, when and how did you first learn about the demonstration of January 25th 2011?
Interviewee:
Okay, last year I was studying abroad in Japan, for the fall and the spring semesters, and during the winter break, I went on a backpacking trip across Southeast Asia.
[00:01:00]
So what happened was, I had very limited Internet access back then, and on the 7th to the 10th of January, I heard like really brief news about what was going on in Tunisia, and a couple of weeks later, I checked my Facebook, I checked my like, regular news pages and I found news about like, some calls for a demonstration in Egypt. And this was, ah, I think the early 20th uh, of January. So this was the first time I actually heard there will be a protest, but of course I had no idea ah, how it was going to escalate to a full scale revolution.
Interviewer:
Have you been involved in the demonstration or political or social organizing for that time?
Interviewee:
I’ve been involved in the sense that I was ah, in favor of a few politically active groups like Kefaya for instance when they were really involved back then.
[00:02:00]
I was also a part of ElBaradei’s campaign for a while I just, I was trying to get involved in anything that is opposing to the status quo. So I went on a couple of demonstrations when demonstrations were really limited to five hundred people and thousands of security forces. That was, I witnessed that twice before and this was my involvement.
Interviewer:
Can you tell about your involvement, involvement in the demonstrations of January and February including the events you participated in or observed?
Interviewee:
Okay, as I told you I was in Japan back then, and as far as I remember I finished my trip from Malaysia, and I returned to Japan on the 26th of January, and this was the first time I have internet access in a really long while. So I saw some of the news web sites I saw some footage of what happened on January 25th and I was just blown away.
[00:03:01]
And later on I got to discover the fact that well, this is, this is big; this is not just one of the demonstrations I’ve, I got to witness before. And because of this, I really wanted to take the first plane and get back to Egypt, but in Japan, as soon as something is insecure in any other country they just stop their flights. So I was not able to come back to Egypt at all. So I did not witness or participate in the events in the sense that I was on the Square because I was not. However during my time in Japan, I was basically like glued to the TV, all the time, glued to my laptop all the time, it was of course you know how the Internet access was unavailable to Egypt and how the telephone lines were not functioning so communication was very, it was extremely hard. So my participation was just like getting whatever I see on the news whatever I can like any kind of information I can have from the landlines, from my parents, from my family, from my friends and getting that out to the world or through Facebook, through Twitter, through my blog.
[00:04:12]
I just tried to like, take this country with no communication whatsoever and take whatever information I can and just spread it to people.
Interviewer:
Did you have contact with any of the prominent individuals involved in the events of January and February?
Interviewee:
I don’t think I had direct contacts but I, I mean like everyone, I just maybe followed their blogs send a few emails back and forth but like, I was not in personal interaction with one of the big figures.
Interviewer:
Can you give the, can you give a description of the demonstrators you encountered?
Interviewee:
Well, I did not encounter demonstrators but what I saw on the TV, and what I understood through conducting interviews for this project because I’ve been part of it.
[00:05:03]
The, like, we know how Egypt is, is formed of many different sectors and how the society here as opposed to the stereotypical view is in fact very diverse, and what I understood from what I watched, from what I heard, from what I saw people talking about, is that all these sectors were actually in harmony. And I know it sounds very like, I don’t want to say, cliché, but it sounds very cliché when you say that “Oh Tahrir was the utopia of Egypt” it was unparalleled, it was unprecedented, but this was it. All these sectors for rich, young, old, politically, politically active, politically inactive they were all on the square and they all had one goal they wanted to achieve from the very early days. And I think through their being having this compatriot sense of being compatriots and having a same goal they were able to achieve this eventually on February 11th.
[00:06:08]
Interviewer:
Okay. Do you have any other impressions about the physical location or settings of the protest at Tahrir Square or elsewhere?
Interviewee:
Well, for someone who was deprived of the chance to participate during the revolution as in, as in a physical attendance, of course. when I walk in Tahrir, I feel kind of I don’t know, I feel kind of sad that I was not, I did not witness this place when it was ah, when it held like, a million people protesting but I feel it’s now a chance for people to, it just symbolizes that people have a voice and if they need something, if they want something, they have a medium where they can communicate and this Square represented this medium in January and February.
[00:07:04]
Interviewer:
Okay. So what do you think about the violence that people suffered during the protests? Like any injuries of, a lot of people who were injured and or bodily harmed, how do you see it?
Interviewee:
Well, when the violent response happened, particularly on the 28th of January, I was not very surprised. I mean usually you’d have five hundred people protesting on the on the stairs of like the general syndicates or something and you’d have 1,500 security forces. So when I found that we have actually thousands of people protesting, I was not surprised that they were met with violence. However, the scale of the violence, that happened using fire or ammunition that was, that blew me away, I was really, I was taken aback.
[00:08:08]
Watching that people are getting not only injured, but getting shot and dead because of this. I don’t know like, I know of a few people who like got physically injured, my brother got physically injured, he had a, he had a stone thrown at his head. Many of the people I interviewed throughout this project, knew other people who, and saw people getting shot and dying which I think is really unfortunate to say the least.
Interviewer:
Beside violence, violent acts were you harassed or interrogated or did you notice that happening to anyone?
Interviewee:
I know a friend of mine who was actually he was ah, captured during, on the 28thof January and uh, he was abducted for two hours, just interrogated for no apparent reason.
[00:09:05]
Although he’s not like politically active at all he was just put in a police car and was being asked by policemen really like question about being involved with exterior forces quote to quote and what not. So this was one of them highlights [laughs] of people I know who got interrogated or harassed by security forces.
Interviewer:
What do you think about the property damage? Like how and when did it happen-
Interviewee:
Um-
Interviewer:
And who was actually involved in this?
Interviewee:
Well, I mean one of the main things that still strikes me whenever I'm going on 6th October Bridge is the sight of the building of the National Democratic Party which was on fire. And, I remember watching on TV the days when ah, the quote to quote baltagiyah was let out of the prisons and how all the prisons and police offices were set on fire and how and how like many places were stolen, how shops were beat- were broken into.
[00:10:12]
And I think different places were attacked by different people. So for instance police, police departments I wouldn’t say it was revolutionaries or people who started the revolution who called for this, but when you have like a whole population that is really, really just hit the roof. And has been, discriminated against by its own people for so long and has really been used as, as a tool for repression. Then I guess some of these people just found the resort to, to burn, ah, police offices. However, also people whose broke into the NDP [National Democratic Party] and burn it off, I think they were stirred by the same anger.
[00:11:03]
However, people breaking into like, Carrefour, people breaking into like secure, like just random shops and stealing them. Well the rumor, rumor has it that it’s baltagiyah let out by the NDP not really sure I mean I know proof this is been given so far but I, I think I lean towards that theory. Just some people who want chaos to be the status quo some people who are not, who just find, ah, find it appealing to have no security what so ever on the streets.
Interviewer:
What do you think were the most pivotal moments of the events of January and February?
Interviewee:
Ah, the most pivotal moments, of course the 28th of January I think was, was a make it or break it day. It was really defining in this revolution because when people went out in thousands and were meet with such a violent, a violent response from the government. It just it made more people who are maybe skeptical in the beginning of this whole movement to join them.
[00:12:18]
Another thing ah, was the Camel Battle as they say on February 2nd. This was also this was a major factor that made many people who were opposed to the revolution and opposed to protesting on the Square, just changing their mind and realize that this is not going to work, like using more violence against peaceful protestors is just simply wrong. And it highlights how the policies that will be taken if nothing is done will be like. Of course umm, February 11th was, was really pivotal.
[00:13:00]
The speech, the thirty second speech Omar Suleiman that Hosni Mubarak will step down is just it’s going to be, it’s just a part of history one we’ll never be able to wipe out
Interviewer:
What do you think about Mubarak first speech and his refusal in February 10th to step down?
Interviewee:
I think Mubarak was late three days in every step he took. So if his first speech was addressed three days before he did probably this would have changed the entire the entire way the things were unrivaled later on. the same goes for his speech in- on February 10th because I remember that day everyone in the morning was, was talking about how, how it’s all set, how Mubarak is resigning today because he’s been missing from the meetings of the, the Supreme Council of ah, Armed Forces.
[00:14:02]
He’s been, like there were many, many speculations around. And when he, when he gave the speech and I remember vividly it was kind of late at the night. People were waiting for this speech for so long and he was really late. And like he was late by the Egyptian timing which was 10 or 11PM and I remember, I was wide awake in Japan waiting for the speech to hear that Mubarak would step down and it was 5AM or 6AM my time. And so when he came out and talked about his like, history and how he loves Egypt and how he will never step down and I switched the channels to find like people raising their shoes and just complete, complete anger on the sight of the people. I just, I just I don’t understand who made this plans. I mean who, who came up with these ideas? Probably the policy making was not at its best.
[00:15:01]
Interviewer:
Okay. What surprised you in the, those most pivotal moments?
Interviewee:
What surprised me-
Interviewee:
The most surprising?
Interviewee:
Um. What surprised me and what still surprises me is that a revolution happened in the first place. I never thought this was possible. I never, never thought this was possible. What surprised me was the sense of collectiveness that people always talk about when they reference the January 25th revolution because, as I told you, I was never able to witness that myself. I watched it through my laptop. That’s the best I could do. I talked to people who were active in it but I did not get involved. I did not get exposed to this positive vibe. So I’m just, I’m still surprised that people completely changed from being passive for so long into being very engaged and politically active and just like making their destiny their own way.
[00:16:01]
Interviewer:
You did not expect that people would go down to streets to protest in this huge numbers?
Interviewee:
No, I did not expect this at all. I was completely surprised. I mean, when I first heard the news that that there were callings for a protest on the 25th, I just I just said, “Okay, it is going to be yet another protest that nothing is going to happen.” But a few days later when I saw that the scale of the protest is getting larger and more people are consenting and more people are in favor of this protest, I just was, then and there and I, I just thought, “Well this is a revolution after all. I was wrong.”
Interviewer:
Ah, can you comment on how your perceptions and emotions changed over the 18 days of the revolution and, in the weeks afterwards?
Interviewee:
Okay, well as I told you I was studying abroad back then and um I, I had almost given up Egypt.
[00:17:01]
I think I was just ah, I was already forming my plans for post-graduation so that I just leave Egypt as soon as possible go for grad school work or whatever. But then the revolution happened. And I know it sounds very cliché again but it did actually, I don’t know it renewed my faith in my people because I never thought this was possible. I never thought people here would stop being ah, spoon fed, thought or attitudes or beliefs whatever and just like rebel against this status quo because this was the way we were raised. We were raised I went to a public not a public school an Egyptian school and for 13 years, 15 years I was just told what to do and I did it. And I assumed most of the people I know did the same so for me seeing people completely shift attitude was kind of revelation.
[00:18:01]
And right now I’m trying to get involved into a lot more involved into civic engagement here in Egypt rather than just formulate plans of how I’m going to get out of here as soon as possible.
Interviewer:
Did you personally observe a diversity of opinion about the events of the revolution?
Interviewee:
Ah, yeah of course. I mean all of us who had like Facebook accounts and would check them later on you know how the debates were formed on Facebook between friends. And for me like people members of my own family had different views. Some were completely against. No one was completely against the protest but you know when Mubarak gave his second speech saying that he will not re-elect himself. You know how many people like, backed off and were like, “Will let him continue until September and then like we want stability blah, blah, blah.” And like several members of my family were in favor of that.
[00:19:03]
On the other side my mum for instance and my brother they were on the Square every day and they were completely against the fact that ah, we can let Mubarak sit one more day in office. More differences were among my friends of course some were really some completely opposed the revolution from the first place, and some were really involved and were active on the Square every day. And some were, were just in favor of it but did not participate because of their parents or a variety of reasons so yeah I mean within my circle of family and friends I’ve seen all sorts of opinions and reactions towards this.
Interviewer:
What media outlets did you follow?
Interviewee:
What media outlets. I followed ah, Al Jazeera of course, Al Arabiya, BBC Arabic. I did not have access to Egyptian TV, but I did of course you know how many people like, would pull out clips and then put them on YouTube or Facebook as soon as they aired.
[00:20:07]
So I did not get live footage. I did see some of their really obscure coverage during the revolution. But I mostly got my news from Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya, BBC and from time to time I would switch to foreign outlets like CNN occasionally.
Interviewer:
Can you compare the coverage of events you saw on different television channels or different print sources?
Interviewee:
Well I can compare to what I heard for instance from people I know who were in Tahrir. Most of the events were amplified, I think, by most news outlets who I mean I'm not undermining the fact that violence did happen. That people went out in thousands or maybe at some instances millions but I always got the impression that media is trying as much as possible to get more ratings.
[00:21:05]
Whether the news they publishing is correct or not. There was always this aspect of exaggeration at some point. As for the Egyptian TV I mean we all saw how things were on fire in Tahrir and then they get you this picture of the 6th of October Bridge and everything is nice and sunny and bright and it was just I think it was funny. Ah, and, and some instances insightful it just makes you understand how things work in the minds of the government I guess.
Interviewer:
Okay. Ah, have you noticed any changes in the Egyptian media since President Mubarak stepped down?
Interviewee:
Public you mean like private Egyptian media and private channels or do you mean the State TV?
[00:22:02]
Interviewer:
The Egyptian media and like-
Interviewee:
Okay, well the State TV-
Interviewer:
And the local channels.
Interviewee:
Oh the locals channels.
Interviewer:
The Egyptian-
Interviewee:
State TV.
Interviewer:
The Egyptian TV, Egyptian media I think.
Interviewee:
So, I think, I think we still have this problem of being afraid of whoever is in authority whether it’s Mubarak or otherwise. I think we still Egyptian television while its now, I mean one day it was all pro-Mubarak and then the next day it was pro-revolution and we’ve all seen that and it’s just kind of weird how this, how this went. And now they are pro-the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces and I don’t know if something else happens in the elections, I don’t know who pro are they going to stick to. But I think they still, they still lack, level of professionalism, a level of being impartial and being objective and I’d really like this to change.
[00:23:03]
Interviewer:
So you don’t think they are really covering what’s happening?
Interviewee:
I think they are covering what’s happening in their own way. I mean, a few weeks back, really unfortunate events happened in Maspero and the Egyptians the State TV coverage was simply bewildering. They were, it was very insightful. It was almost hate speech that I saw there. So, and it was on the other hand making the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces appear as the right, the right party and ah, the victim. I'm not giving my opinion about the, what happened in Maspero because it was a really complex situation. But I think the coverage would have, could have been a lot more objective if the State TV was not leaning towards a side of whoever is in power right now.
Interviewer:
Did you use internet social media sites like Facebook or Twitter?
[00:24:00]
Interviewee:
Yeah, definitely. I used Facebook, I used Twitter, I used YouTube, I used like Internet excessively throughout the revolution because it was basically my only way to stay to stay in touch, not in touch because people in Egypt did not have any access but to stay on top of things basically.
Interviewer:
Yeah that’s for you. I know you were not here, you were in Japan. But, like, can you describe what the internet and mobile phone outage was like here in Egypt.
Interviewee:
Ah, yeah I can describe it because I was not able to be in touch with any of my family or my friends and it was very, it was very scary and I think the day I woke up to read the news that in Egypt the Internet has shut down in Egypt, I knew that this is such a stupid decision. This is just, this is going to escalate and we’ll have really bad consequences for, for the regime.
[00:25:00]
And, and I remember that later on I tried to call people from my cell phone it wouldn’t work I, and some points, it was very hard for me to call landlines from Japan because like, they have a completely different system there. So I could not use that easily until I, I went and bought credit from my Skype account and was able to finally call my family and make sure they are okay. but it was, it was such a hard time for people here and for people who were away and trying to get back to their families.
Interviewer:
How did your family describe this?
Interviewee:
Ah, well as I told you my brother was on the Square, so for him it was disastrous because my parents did not know if he was alive or dead. Especially on, after the 28th when all the violence happened and the curfews imposed.
[00:26:00]
Of course people who were back home were not able to communicate at all, people who wanted to protest together were completely out of touch but people worked around it and people rediscovered landlines which they’ve had for tens of years but have recently forgotten about them and I think this was a bright move. Like, Egyptians improvise stuff all the time and they reinvent their, their methods of communication. So, and I think the common reception, the common attitude people had toward this was that it made them more determined to, to stop this authoritarian system because you cannot just like shut people down.
Interviewer:
Ah, what were some of the rumors you heard? What do you think their sources were and which had the most impact?
[00:27:00]
Interviewee:
Well, some of the rumors, of course every day we would hear a rumor that Mubarak will step down. Of course, there were rumors that, I don’t know, Gamal Mubarak fled to London; rumors that, I don’t know, baltagiyah will go attack this or that place. I don’t know about the sources. Some of the sources might be news outlets actually who would let, like such a small piece of news slip through social media for instance and see how the actions of people would be and this would get them more ratings and more, more traffic to their websites. And that’s how yellow journalism works basically. Some other outlets could be ah, the same people who wanted to spread violence and insecurity just start like a rumor that baltagiyah will attack this or that place and you will find how people are scared and just would step back and yeah.
[00:28:00]
Interviewer:
During 18 days of the revolution and immediately after what were the conditions, the conditions like in the neighborhood, where you live or areas you visited? Can you mention the public safety situations, security measure taken by you or others?
Interviewee:
Okay, uh, my family lives in Al Rehab which is pretty close to the Fifth Settlement where the campus here is. And I remember on the 28th I was able to talk to my, my father after I, like of course I had a panic attack watching on the TV, everything is going on fire and like people talking about people running out of prisons and with guns and I was just completely scared. So I was finally able to get hold of my father who told me that it was then that the army the army trucks were actually on their way to, to my residence, my home residence which is Al Rehab. And I think since then people stopped being really scared when they saw like army trucks all over the the compound.
[00:29:05]
I remember when I was in touch with my family later on things were pretty stable. Ah, there were some of the ligan sha'biyya or popular committees there before the army arrived. So it was, it was pretty safe in comparison to the horror some people experienced in other parts of Cairo. I think mostly because it’s a remote place and it’s also kind of closed so that, although I see this as a negative point always but I think in this context it worked well.
Interviewer:
Do you think there was availability of cash and food or cash, food and other goods?
Interviewee:
I think things were not as drastic as I thought they would be. I mean when I was in touch with my family none of them mentioned anything about being like starving or.
[00:30:04]
I think there was enough like stock until the end of like the major protest in, in, ah, February 11th. And I think also when-
Interviewer:
This is only in your neighborhood?
Interviewee:
This is only, I’m talking about my neighborhood. And I think what also helped in this uh, in this sense is the fact that I don’t think the, the curfew was imposed as strictly in Rehab as it was like downtown Cairo, because as I told you, it’s very a remote and closed community, so I think people did not have to get back to their homes before 5PM, which meant that they had more access to food and other services for a longer time.
Interviewer:
How did your family tell you about, tell you about the ligan sha'biyya?
Interviewee:
Oh yeah, the ligan sha'biyya. It was before the army arrived. What I heard from my family was that people started forming like chains.
[00:31:02]
Humans chains in front of the shops, in front of like their buildings, holding tree trunk, tree like branches, or just like sticks or anything, just to protect their buildings in case something happens, but nothing happened and then the army arrives, so the ligan sha'biyya was dismantled pretty quickly.
Interviewer:
How did the curfew affect your family?
Interviewee:
Uh, my mom, of course my mom, my mom works, so throughout the revolution, she did not go to her job basically. My dad, however, who uh, who had to be in his office in uh, and it’s in Garden City so it’s pretty, pretty close to what’s happening in Tahrir. He was held in his office for two days. I think that was the 29th and the 30th of January, he was not able to get back home because the curfew would be imposed he had still be either working, or or he just like go through the Square, join the protesters and then, it’d be pretty late all of a sudden, because time flies there apparently.
[00:32:12]
And he just gets back to his office because he knows he will not be able to drive all the way from Downtown to New Cairo without being stopped by someone. And it was just a risky situation. Other than that like my family living in Rehab did not experience any kind of curfew whatsoever, because it was just not imposed over there.
Interviewer:
Okay. Do you know someone who left Cairo at some point after the protest?
Interviewee:
I don’t know anyone who left Cairo. Actually yeah, I know ah, someone who left Cairo and went to Saudi Arabia, just because they were, they felt very insecure and just didn’t want to be a part of this, so yeah.
[00:33:00]
Interviewer:
Did you know people who arrived to Egypt specifically, for, for the demonstrations, or even know someone who was active in the demonstrating in another country?
Interviewee:
Uh, yeah, some of my friends were studying abroad in the States, and they were, and they joined many, like many of the marches and the protesting in place in the different states. For me, I had a friend in Tokyo, I was in Osaka by the way, which did not have any embassy, which did not have any kind of consulate. My, the closest embassy I had access to, was in Tokyo, and it was 10 hours away by bus. So I was not able to, unfortunately join any kind of rally. But my friend in Tokyo took part in a demonstration in front of the Egyptian Embassy in Tokyo. Other people, I don’t know of people who returned specifically to Egypt just to join the protest, although I wanted to, I was not able to, but I know people who will change their plans, their long term plans because of what happened in the revolution.
[00:34:02]
Interviewer:
Have you been involved in the demonstrations or other events, since the departure of President Mubarak?
Interviewee:
I did once after I turned back, because I guess I had an overload of like emotional need to protest after seeing all, everyone protesting. But I, I did only once I think and since then I discovered that like people have different techniques or approaches to how the change should be in this stage and I’m just not sure about their methods or their correct or not, so I haven’t been part of that.
Interviewer:
What do you think were the most pivotal moments since President Mubarak stepped down?
Interviewee:
Some of the most pivotal moments would include the day of Mubarak’s trial of course. I had to work that day and just I took the day off and I had to watch this thing, because I never imagined that this would happen.
[00:35:05]
It was, um it was, it was very revelational. I think this was one of the most important things. Other important things are really sad things, including, like sectarian conflicts, we’ve seen at some point. The events in Maspero a couple of weeks ago were definitely where twenty four people died because of really unknown reasons. These are also some pivotal things, and pivotal in the sense that they shape the way the rest of the society functions, they shape the way the rest of us perceive this revolution.
Interviewer:
What about the constitution referendum?
Interviewee:
Yeah, well I watched that also from Japan, because I remember on March, I saw all the pictures of people lining up, and I was also blown away.
[00:36:03]
I never imagined that this day would come, and I think now I don’t consider it as pivotal, because like, the outcome was absolutely irrelevant, but back then when I watched this happening, it was, it was absolutely amazing of course.
Interviewer:
But the outcome was relevant to the majority?
Interviewee:
Yeah, that is, it was not, it was rel- irrelevant to the majority and to the minority because in the end, like the decisions taken were not, did not really pay in regards the, the vote whether yes or no.
Interviewer:
How was the revolution affected the way AUC operates, and what kinds of change do you anticipate in the future?
Interviewee:
I think there were few courses introduced that integrated the revolution in its curriculum last spring. And it was a very quick decision I think as far as I remember, the semester started right after I mean it was suspended and restarted right after the revolution.
[00:37:07]
Also I know a few courses that changed their curriculum despite ad hoc, despite that it was supposed to teach something. Halfway through they just like integrated the revolution in their, in their curriculum, which I think was which was a good step. Ah, other methods, I know that ah, the campus was still ah, open during the revolution. And through my interviews with workers, I found that they actually spent night shifts over here, just to maintain the security of the campus.
Interviewer:
How was the revolution affect, sorry, how did the University Administration react to the events of January and February?
Interviewee:
I’m not really sure, but I assumed they reacted [sighs] in a neutral fashion.
[00:38:00]
They did not oppose this and did not oppose that, until the outcome was out there and, and of course then the university started to initiate ah, programs, and courses as I said and projects like this one, to, to, to integrate the revolution and to be part of the revolution.
Interviewer:
Like a lot of people said AUC had the connection with the Mubarak regime-
Interviewee:
Mhm.
Interviewer:
Because a lot of snipers went on top of the roof-
Interviewee:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Of the AUC downtown campus?
Interviewee:
Well of course we all heard the story about the snipers, and I remember the debate that came out if AUC had an idea about that, and then the President said ah, it was absolutely, like we did not know at all, and I think the, there hasn’t been a resolution to this problem. So this is one thing the administration really needs to figure out. Also I mean we’ve all seen how we had a hall here called, the Suzanne Mubarak Hall.
[00:39:05]
Interviewer:
Yeah.
Interviewee:
And how it took quite a while to change that and I think the change is coming within the students, rather than from the administration, and I think this is the way administrations function usually, because here it’s not a one man decision kind of thing. You work in a framework, and you have to get consents of the board of trustees which included many, many, many, NDP members. Uh, I have to get the consent of the whole management team, and I think this is why decision here are made very slowly.
Interviewer:
How has the revolution affected the students at the AUC? Have you noticed changes in their opinions or engage, engagement with politics and social issues?
Interviewee:
Ah, of course, I don’t think, if the revolution had happened, we would have such a mass strike like the one we had here. I think the fact that people realize right now, that their voices could be heard, changed a lot.
[00:40:04]
And I think just like being self-empowered, this, this concept was absent within Egypt, and right now it’s been found and people are using it in various ways. Sometimes it’s effective, sometimes it’s ineffective, sometimes it’s useful, sometimes it’s harmful, sometimes it’s a means, and sometimes it’s protesting is an end in itself. But I think students are using this concept right now in the free expression I think ah, opinion, freedom of opinion on campus is ah, has become more and more amplified. I think also the Office Student Development changed some rules to publicity on campus, and right now it’s a lot easier to publicize for events, for causes. I think the regulations and even the student constitution is undergoing changes. So all these things signify how the revolution and how like having the sense of that your voice could be heard, or actually implemented on campus.
[00:41:08]
Interviewer:
Can you make comparison between AUC students and other Egyptian universities?
Interviewee:
I don’t think this is relevant. I think all students, all like this-
Interviewer:
Like a-
Interviewee:
Strata of each would have the same reaction. Maybe AUC students is always is always perceived like they’re more bubbled whose students never interact with their society. And I think this has kind of changed, because we’ve seen some of the prominent figures in this revolution, were actually AUC alumni or AUC students, we’ve seen how a project like this one is changing, is also trying to change this image, trying to get involved in the revolution, trying to document every, everything, anyone who was involved, had to say. So all these things kind of make AUC different, but in the long term, or in the grand scheme of things, I think all students from all universities have the same outlook.
[00:42:11]
Interviewer:
How have teaching and classroom discussions changed?
Interviewee:
For me, this semester I’m experiencing more discussions than I experienced before I went for my study abroad in Japan. Like I’m taking three journalism classes this semester and the three journalism classes have the revolution as a theme. So this gives you an idea how teachers here are trying to, to be as relevant and as conversational as possible. And having the revolution as the theme, it’s not only addressing what happened in January and February, but addressing what’s happening now because all that’s happening now is part of the revolution. So yeah.
[00:43:02]
Interviewer:
What do you think the near term and enduring changes in Egyptian political and social life will be?
Interviewee:
It’s hard to make expectations, because every day something happens. But I think like the rest of Egyptians that are awaiting parliamentary elections, and they’re awaiting how this will work out. I’m kind of hopeful. I really would like the parliamentary elections to reflect what the people actually want and would result in forming a new constitution that really reflects what the people want and the duties of everyone and the obligations of everyone, and the rights of everyone and this will follow and this will be followed hopefully by a fair and, and a transparent presidential elections.
Interviewer:
Can you compare that with your expectations for Egypt’s future before the revolution?
Interviewee:
My expectations for Egypt before the revolution were pretty ah, bleak.
[00:44:03]
Ah, I did not see a way out. I mean ah, my only expectation was, when Mubarak would ah, would die, Gamal Mubarak would take over. Or if the army would form a coup if they’re not in full view, favor of Gamal Mubarak so, I did not experience, I mean I did not expect that we’d have fair and democratic elections in the next five years, absolutely no.
Interviewer:
Has the revolution fundamentally changed some of your views?
Interviewee:
Yeah absolutely. Like I told you before, I was already forming my plans for graduate school abroad, as soon as I finished my undergraduate studies here at AUC. But right now, I’m kind of reforming my plans and I’m just how I almost perceive as Egyptians as passive and is completely changed right now.
Interviewer:
Is there anything you would like to add?
Interviewee:
No, thank you. That’s it.
[00:45:05]
[End of interview]

Transcript of oral history interview conducted with
###### on October 24, 2011 for the
University on the Square: Documenting Egypt’s 21st Century Revolution project
Interviewer:
This is an oral history interview for the American University in Cairo, University on the Square: Documenting Egypt’s 21st Century Revolution project. The interviewee is ######, and the interviewer is ######, the date is twenty, October twenty fourth, 2011 and we are in the PVA studio. Please give your name and your connection with AUC.
Interviewee:
My name is ######, I'm a senior in AUC studying Journalism, Political Science and Rhetoric and Composition.
Interviewer:
When did you, when and how did you first learn about the demonstration of January 25th 2011?
Interviewee:
Okay, last year I was studying abroad in Japan, for the fall and the spring semesters, and during the winter break, I went on a backpacking trip across Southeast Asia.
[00:01:00]
So what happened was, I had very limited Internet access back then, and on the 7th to the 10th of January, I heard like really brief news about what was going on in Tunisia, and a couple of weeks later, I checked my Facebook, I checked my like, regular news pages and I found news about like, some calls for a demonstration in Egypt. And this was, ah, I think the early 20th uh, of January. So this was the first time I actually heard there will be a protest, but of course I had no idea ah, how it was going to escalate to a full scale revolution.
Interviewer:
Have you been involved in the demonstration or political or social organizing for that time?
Interviewee:
I’ve been involved in the sense that I was ah, in favor of a few politically active groups like Kefaya for instance when they were really involved back then.
[00:02:00]
I was also a part of ElBaradei’s campaign for a while I just, I was trying to get involved in anything that is opposing to the status quo. So I went on a couple of demonstrations when demonstrations were really limited to five hundred people and thousands of security forces. That was, I witnessed that twice before and this was my involvement.
Interviewer:
Can you tell about your involvement, involvement in the demonstrations of January and February including the events you participated in or observed?
Interviewee:
Okay, as I told you I was in Japan back then, and as far as I remember I finished my trip from Malaysia, and I returned to Japan on the 26th of January, and this was the first time I have internet access in a really long while. So I saw some of the news web sites I saw some footage of what happened on January 25th and I was just blown away.
[00:03:01]
And later on I got to discover the fact that well, this is, this is big; this is not just one of the demonstrations I’ve, I got to witness before. And because of this, I really wanted to take the first plane and get back to Egypt, but in Japan, as soon as something is insecure in any other country they just stop their flights. So I was not able to come back to Egypt at all. So I did not witness or participate in the events in the sense that I was on the Square because I was not. However during my time in Japan, I was basically like glued to the TV, all the time, glued to my laptop all the time, it was of course you know how the Internet access was unavailable to Egypt and how the telephone lines were not functioning so communication was very, it was extremely hard. So my participation was just like getting whatever I see on the news whatever I can like any kind of information I can have from the landlines, from my parents, from my family, from my friends and getting that out to the world or through Facebook, through Twitter, through my blog.
[00:04:12]
I just tried to like, take this country with no communication whatsoever and take whatever information I can and just spread it to people.
Interviewer:
Did you have contact with any of the prominent individuals involved in the events of January and February?
Interviewee:
I don’t think I had direct contacts but I, I mean like everyone, I just maybe followed their blogs send a few emails back and forth but like, I was not in personal interaction with one of the big figures.
Interviewer:
Can you give the, can you give a description of the demonstrators you encountered?
Interviewee:
Well, I did not encounter demonstrators but what I saw on the TV, and what I understood through conducting interviews for this project because I’ve been part of it.
[00:05:03]
The, like, we know how Egypt is, is formed of many different sectors and how the society here as opposed to the stereotypical view is in fact very diverse, and what I understood from what I watched, from what I heard, from what I saw people talking about, is that all these sectors were actually in harmony. And I know it sounds very like, I don’t want to say, cliché, but it sounds very cliché when you say that “Oh Tahrir was the utopia of Egypt” it was unparalleled, it was unprecedented, but this was it. All these sectors for rich, young, old, politically, politically active, politically inactive they were all on the square and they all had one goal they wanted to achieve from the very early days. And I think through their being having this compatriot sense of being compatriots and having a same goal they were able to achieve this eventually on February 11th.
[00:06:08]
Interviewer:
Okay. Do you have any other impressions about the physical location or settings of the protest at Tahrir Square or elsewhere?
Interviewee:
Well, for someone who was deprived of the chance to participate during the revolution as in, as in a physical attendance, of course. when I walk in Tahrir, I feel kind of I don’t know, I feel kind of sad that I was not, I did not witness this place when it was ah, when it held like, a million people protesting but I feel it’s now a chance for people to, it just symbolizes that people have a voice and if they need something, if they want something, they have a medium where they can communicate and this Square represented this medium in January and February.
[00:07:04]
Interviewer:
Okay. So what do you think about the violence that people suffered during the protests? Like any injuries of, a lot of people who were injured and or bodily harmed, how do you see it?
Interviewee:
Well, when the violent response happened, particularly on the 28th of January, I was not very surprised. I mean usually you’d have five hundred people protesting on the on the stairs of like the general syndicates or something and you’d have 1,500 security forces. So when I found that we have actually thousands of people protesting, I was not surprised that they were met with violence. However, the scale of the violence, that happened using fire or ammunition that was, that blew me away, I was really, I was taken aback.
[00:08:08]
Watching that people are getting not only injured, but getting shot and dead because of this. I don’t know like, I know of a few people who like got physically injured, my brother got physically injured, he had a, he had a stone thrown at his head. Many of the people I interviewed throughout this project, knew other people who, and saw people getting shot and dying which I think is really unfortunate to say the least.
Interviewer:
Beside violence, violent acts were you harassed or interrogated or did you notice that happening to anyone?
Interviewee:
I know a friend of mine who was actually he was ah, captured during, on the 28thof January and uh, he was abducted for two hours, just interrogated for no apparent reason.
[00:09:05]
Although he’s not like politically active at all he was just put in a police car and was being asked by policemen really like question about being involved with exterior forces quote to quote and what not. So this was one of them highlights [laughs] of people I know who got interrogated or harassed by security forces.
Interviewer:
What do you think about the property damage? Like how and when did it happen-
Interviewee:
Um-
Interviewer:
And who was actually involved in this?
Interviewee:
Well, I mean one of the main things that still strikes me whenever I'm going on 6th October Bridge is the sight of the building of the National Democratic Party which was on fire. And, I remember watching on TV the days when ah, the quote to quote baltagiyah was let out of the prisons and how all the prisons and police offices were set on fire and how and how like many places were stolen, how shops were beat- were broken into.
[00:10:12]
And I think different places were attacked by different people. So for instance police, police departments I wouldn’t say it was revolutionaries or people who started the revolution who called for this, but when you have like a whole population that is really, really just hit the roof. And has been, discriminated against by its own people for so long and has really been used as, as a tool for repression. Then I guess some of these people just found the resort to, to burn, ah, police offices. However, also people whose broke into the NDP [National Democratic Party] and burn it off, I think they were stirred by the same anger.
[00:11:03]
However, people breaking into like, Carrefour, people breaking into like secure, like just random shops and stealing them. Well the rumor, rumor has it that it’s baltagiyah let out by the NDP not really sure I mean I know proof this is been given so far but I, I think I lean towards that theory. Just some people who want chaos to be the status quo some people who are not, who just find, ah, find it appealing to have no security what so ever on the streets.
Interviewer:
What do you think were the most pivotal moments of the events of January and February?
Interviewee:
Ah, the most pivotal moments, of course the 28th of January I think was, was a make it or break it day. It was really defining in this revolution because when people went out in thousands and were meet with such a violent, a violent response from the government. It just it made more people who are maybe skeptical in the beginning of this whole movement to join them.
[00:12:18]
Another thing ah, was the Camel Battle as they say on February 2nd. This was also this was a major factor that made many people who were opposed to the revolution and opposed to protesting on the Square, just changing their mind and realize that this is not going to work, like using more violence against peaceful protestors is just simply wrong. And it highlights how the policies that will be taken if nothing is done will be like. Of course umm, February 11th was, was really pivotal.
[00:13:00]
The speech, the thirty second speech Omar Suleiman that Hosni Mubarak will step down is just it’s going to be, it’s just a part of history one we’ll never be able to wipe out
Interviewer:
What do you think about Mubarak first speech and his refusal in February 10th to step down?
Interviewee:
I think Mubarak was late three days in every step he took. So if his first speech was addressed three days before he did probably this would have changed the entire the entire way the things were unrivaled later on. the same goes for his speech in- on February 10th because I remember that day everyone in the morning was, was talking about how, how it’s all set, how Mubarak is resigning today because he’s been missing from the meetings of the, the Supreme Council of ah, Armed Forces.
[00:14:02]
He’s been, like there were many, many speculations around. And when he, when he gave the speech and I remember vividly it was kind of late at the night. People were waiting for this speech for so long and he was really late. And like he was late by the Egyptian timing which was 10 or 11PM and I remember, I was wide awake in Japan waiting for the speech to hear that Mubarak would step down and it was 5AM or 6AM my time. And so when he came out and talked about his like, history and how he loves Egypt and how he will never step down and I switched the channels to find like people raising their shoes and just complete, complete anger on the sight of the people. I just, I just I don’t understand who made this plans. I mean who, who came up with these ideas? Probably the policy making was not at its best.
[00:15:01]
Interviewer:
Okay. What surprised you in the, those most pivotal moments?
Interviewee:
What surprised me-
Interviewee:
The most surprising?
Interviewee:
Um. What surprised me and what still surprises me is that a revolution happened in the first place. I never thought this was possible. I never, never thought this was possible. What surprised me was the sense of collectiveness that people always talk about when they reference the January 25th revolution because, as I told you, I was never able to witness that myself. I watched it through my laptop. That’s the best I could do. I talked to people who were active in it but I did not get involved. I did not get exposed to this positive vibe. So I’m just, I’m still surprised that people completely changed from being passive for so long into being very engaged and politically active and just like making their destiny their own way.
[00:16:01]
Interviewer:
You did not expect that people would go down to streets to protest in this huge numbers?
Interviewee:
No, I did not expect this at all. I was completely surprised. I mean, when I first heard the news that that there were callings for a protest on the 25th, I just I just said, “Okay, it is going to be yet another protest that nothing is going to happen.” But a few days later when I saw that the scale of the protest is getting larger and more people are consenting and more people are in favor of this protest, I just was, then and there and I, I just thought, “Well this is a revolution after all. I was wrong.”
Interviewer:
Ah, can you comment on how your perceptions and emotions changed over the 18 days of the revolution and, in the weeks afterwards?
Interviewee:
Okay, well as I told you I was studying abroad back then and um I, I had almost given up Egypt.
[00:17:01]
I think I was just ah, I was already forming my plans for post-graduation so that I just leave Egypt as soon as possible go for grad school work or whatever. But then the revolution happened. And I know it sounds very cliché again but it did actually, I don’t know it renewed my faith in my people because I never thought this was possible. I never thought people here would stop being ah, spoon fed, thought or attitudes or beliefs whatever and just like rebel against this status quo because this was the way we were raised. We were raised I went to a public not a public school an Egyptian school and for 13 years, 15 years I was just told what to do and I did it. And I assumed most of the people I know did the same so for me seeing people completely shift attitude was kind of revelation.
[00:18:01]
And right now I’m trying to get involved into a lot more involved into civic engagement here in Egypt rather than just formulate plans of how I’m going to get out of here as soon as possible.
Interviewer:
Did you personally observe a diversity of opinion about the events of the revolution?
Interviewee:
Ah, yeah of course. I mean all of us who had like Facebook accounts and would check them later on you know how the debates were formed on Facebook between friends. And for me like people members of my own family had different views. Some were completely against. No one was completely against the protest but you know when Mubarak gave his second speech saying that he will not re-elect himself. You know how many people like, backed off and were like, “Will let him continue until September and then like we want stability blah, blah, blah.” And like several members of my family were in favor of that.
[00:19:03]
On the other side my mum for instance and my brother they were on the Square every day and they were completely against the fact that ah, we can let Mubarak sit one more day in office. More differences were among my friends of course some were really some completely opposed the revolution from the first place, and some were really involved and were active on the Square every day. And some were, were just in favor of it but did not participate because of their parents or a variety of reasons so yeah I mean within my circle of family and friends I’ve seen all sorts of opinions and reactions towards this.
Interviewer:
What media outlets did you follow?
Interviewee:
What media outlets. I followed ah, Al Jazeera of course, Al Arabiya, BBC Arabic. I did not have access to Egyptian TV, but I did of course you know how many people like, would pull out clips and then put them on YouTube or Facebook as soon as they aired.
[00:20:07]
So I did not get live footage. I did see some of their really obscure coverage during the revolution. But I mostly got my news from Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya, BBC and from time to time I would switch to foreign outlets like CNN occasionally.
Interviewer:
Can you compare the coverage of events you saw on different television channels or different print sources?
Interviewee:
Well I can compare to what I heard for instance from people I know who were in Tahrir. Most of the events were amplified, I think, by most news outlets who I mean I'm not undermining the fact that violence did happen. That people went out in thousands or maybe at some instances millions but I always got the impression that media is trying as much as possible to get more ratings.
[00:21:05]
Whether the news they publishing is correct or not. There was always this aspect of exaggeration at some point. As for the Egyptian TV I mean we all saw how things were on fire in Tahrir and then they get you this picture of the 6th of October Bridge and everything is nice and sunny and bright and it was just I think it was funny. Ah, and, and some instances insightful it just makes you understand how things work in the minds of the government I guess.
Interviewer:
Okay. Ah, have you noticed any changes in the Egyptian media since President Mubarak stepped down?
Interviewee:
Public you mean like private Egyptian media and private channels or do you mean the State TV?
[00:22:02]
Interviewer:
The Egyptian media and like-
Interviewee:
Okay, well the State TV-
Interviewer:
And the local channels.
Interviewee:
Oh the locals channels.
Interviewer:
The Egyptian-
Interviewee:
State TV.
Interviewer:
The Egyptian TV, Egyptian media I think.
Interviewee:
So, I think, I think we still have this problem of being afraid of whoever is in authority whether it’s Mubarak or otherwise. I think we still Egyptian television while its now, I mean one day it was all pro-Mubarak and then the next day it was pro-revolution and we’ve all seen that and it’s just kind of weird how this, how this went. And now they are pro-the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces and I don’t know if something else happens in the elections, I don’t know who pro are they going to stick to. But I think they still, they still lack, level of professionalism, a level of being impartial and being objective and I’d really like this to change.
[00:23:03]
Interviewer:
So you don’t think they are really covering what’s happening?
Interviewee:
I think they are covering what’s happening in their own way. I mean, a few weeks back, really unfortunate events happened in Maspero and the Egyptians the State TV coverage was simply bewildering. They were, it was very insightful. It was almost hate speech that I saw there. So, and it was on the other hand making the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces appear as the right, the right party and ah, the victim. I'm not giving my opinion about the, what happened in Maspero because it was a really complex situation. But I think the coverage would have, could have been a lot more objective if the State TV was not leaning towards a side of whoever is in power right now.
Interviewer:
Did you use internet social media sites like Facebook or Twitter?
[00:24:00]
Interviewee:
Yeah, definitely. I used Facebook, I used Twitter, I used YouTube, I used like Internet excessively throughout the revolution because it was basically my only way to stay to stay in touch, not in touch because people in Egypt did not have any access but to stay on top of things basically.
Interviewer:
Yeah that’s for you. I know you were not here, you were in Japan. But, like, can you describe what the internet and mobile phone outage was like here in Egypt.
Interviewee:
Ah, yeah I can describe it because I was not able to be in touch with any of my family or my friends and it was very, it was very scary and I think the day I woke up to read the news that in Egypt the Internet has shut down in Egypt, I knew that this is such a stupid decision. This is just, this is going to escalate and we’ll have really bad consequences for, for the regime.
[00:25:00]
And, and I remember that later on I tried to call people from my cell phone it wouldn’t work I, and some points, it was very hard for me to call landlines from Japan because like, they have a completely different system there. So I could not use that easily until I, I went and bought credit from my Skype account and was able to finally call my family and make sure they are okay. but it was, it was such a hard time for people here and for people who were away and trying to get back to their families.
Interviewer:
How did your family describe this?
Interviewee:
Ah, well as I told you my brother was on the Square, so for him it was disastrous because my parents did not know if he was alive or dead. Especially on, after the 28th when all the violence happened and the curfews imposed.
[00:26:00]
Of course people who were back home were not able to communicate at all, people who wanted to protest together were completely out of touch but people worked around it and people rediscovered landlines which they’ve had for tens of years but have recently forgotten about them and I think this was a bright move. Like, Egyptians improvise stuff all the time and they reinvent their, their methods of communication. So, and I think the common reception, the common attitude people had toward this was that it made them more determined to, to stop this authoritarian system because you cannot just like shut people down.
Interviewer:
Ah, what were some of the rumors you heard? What do you think their sources were and which had the most impact?
[00:27:00]
Interviewee:
Well, some of the rumors, of course every day we would hear a rumor that Mubarak will step down. Of course, there were rumors that, I don’t know, Gamal Mubarak fled to London; rumors that, I don’t know, baltagiyah will go attack this or that place. I don’t know about the sources. Some of the sources might be news outlets actually who would let, like such a small piece of news slip through social media for instance and see how the actions of people would be and this would get them more ratings and more, more traffic to their websites. And that’s how yellow journalism works basically. Some other outlets could be ah, the same people who wanted to spread violence and insecurity just start like a rumor that baltagiyah will attack this or that place and you will find how people are scared and just would step back and yeah.
[00:28:00]
Interviewer:
During 18 days of the revolution and immediately after what were the conditions, the conditions like in the neighborhood, where you live or areas you visited? Can you mention the public safety situations, security measure taken by you or others?
Interviewee:
Okay, uh, my family lives in Al Rehab which is pretty close to the Fifth Settlement where the campus here is. And I remember on the 28th I was able to talk to my, my father after I, like of course I had a panic attack watching on the TV, everything is going on fire and like people talking about people running out of prisons and with guns and I was just completely scared. So I was finally able to get hold of my father who told me that it was then that the army the army trucks were actually on their way to, to my residence, my home residence which is Al Rehab. And I think since then people stopped being really scared when they saw like army trucks all over the the compound.
[00:29:05]
I remember when I was in touch with my family later on things were pretty stable. Ah, there were some of the ligan sha'biyya or popular committees there before the army arrived. So it was, it was pretty safe in comparison to the horror some people experienced in other parts of Cairo. I think mostly because it’s a remote place and it’s also kind of closed so that, although I see this as a negative point always but I think in this context it worked well.
Interviewer:
Do you think there was availability of cash and food or cash, food and other goods?
Interviewee:
I think things were not as drastic as I thought they would be. I mean when I was in touch with my family none of them mentioned anything about being like starving or.
[00:30:04]
I think there was enough like stock until the end of like the major protest in, in, ah, February 11th. And I think also when-
Interviewer:
This is only in your neighborhood?
Interviewee:
This is only, I’m talking about my neighborhood. And I think what also helped in this uh, in this sense is the fact that I don’t think the, the curfew was imposed as strictly in Rehab as it was like downtown Cairo, because as I told you, it’s very a remote and closed community, so I think people did not have to get back to their homes before 5PM, which meant that they had more access to food and other services for a longer time.
Interviewer:
How did your family tell you about, tell you about the ligan sha'biyya?
Interviewee:
Oh yeah, the ligan sha'biyya. It was before the army arrived. What I heard from my family was that people started forming like chains.
[00:31:02]
Humans chains in front of the shops, in front of like their buildings, holding tree trunk, tree like branches, or just like sticks or anything, just to protect their buildings in case something happens, but nothing happened and then the army arrives, so the ligan sha'biyya was dismantled pretty quickly.
Interviewer:
How did the curfew affect your family?
Interviewee:
Uh, my mom, of course my mom, my mom works, so throughout the revolution, she did not go to her job basically. My dad, however, who uh, who had to be in his office in uh, and it’s in Garden City so it’s pretty, pretty close to what’s happening in Tahrir. He was held in his office for two days. I think that was the 29th and the 30th of January, he was not able to get back home because the curfew would be imposed he had still be either working, or or he just like go through the Square, join the protesters and then, it’d be pretty late all of a sudden, because time flies there apparently.
[00:32:12]
And he just gets back to his office because he knows he will not be able to drive all the way from Downtown to New Cairo without being stopped by someone. And it was just a risky situation. Other than that like my family living in Rehab did not experience any kind of curfew whatsoever, because it was just not imposed over there.
Interviewer:
Okay. Do you know someone who left Cairo at some point after the protest?
Interviewee:
I don’t know anyone who left Cairo. Actually yeah, I know ah, someone who left Cairo and went to Saudi Arabia, just because they were, they felt very insecure and just didn’t want to be a part of this, so yeah.
[00:33:00]
Interviewer:
Did you know people who arrived to Egypt specifically, for, for the demonstrations, or even know someone who was active in the demonstrating in another country?
Interviewee:
Uh, yeah, some of my friends were studying abroad in the States, and they were, and they joined many, like many of the marches and the protesting in place in the different states. For me, I had a friend in Tokyo, I was in Osaka by the way, which did not have any embassy, which did not have any kind of consulate. My, the closest embassy I had access to, was in Tokyo, and it was 10 hours away by bus. So I was not able to, unfortunately join any kind of rally. But my friend in Tokyo took part in a demonstration in front of the Egyptian Embassy in Tokyo. Other people, I don’t know of people who returned specifically to Egypt just to join the protest, although I wanted to, I was not able to, but I know people who will change their plans, their long term plans because of what happened in the revolution.
[00:34:02]
Interviewer:
Have you been involved in the demonstrations or other events, since the departure of President Mubarak?
Interviewee:
I did once after I turned back, because I guess I had an overload of like emotional need to protest after seeing all, everyone protesting. But I, I did only once I think and since then I discovered that like people have different techniques or approaches to how the change should be in this stage and I’m just not sure about their methods or their correct or not, so I haven’t been part of that.
Interviewer:
What do you think were the most pivotal moments since President Mubarak stepped down?
Interviewee:
Some of the most pivotal moments would include the day of Mubarak’s trial of course. I had to work that day and just I took the day off and I had to watch this thing, because I never imagined that this would happen.
[00:35:05]
It was, um it was, it was very revelational. I think this was one of the most important things. Other important things are really sad things, including, like sectarian conflicts, we’ve seen at some point. The events in Maspero a couple of weeks ago were definitely where twenty four people died because of really unknown reasons. These are also some pivotal things, and pivotal in the sense that they shape the way the rest of the society functions, they shape the way the rest of us perceive this revolution.
Interviewer:
What about the constitution referendum?
Interviewee:
Yeah, well I watched that also from Japan, because I remember on March, I saw all the pictures of people lining up, and I was also blown away.
[00:36:03]
I never imagined that this day would come, and I think now I don’t consider it as pivotal, because like, the outcome was absolutely irrelevant, but back then when I watched this happening, it was, it was absolutely amazing of course.
Interviewer:
But the outcome was relevant to the majority?
Interviewee:
Yeah, that is, it was not, it was rel- irrelevant to the majority and to the minority because in the end, like the decisions taken were not, did not really pay in regards the, the vote whether yes or no.
Interviewer:
How was the revolution affected the way AUC operates, and what kinds of change do you anticipate in the future?
Interviewee:
I think there were few courses introduced that integrated the revolution in its curriculum last spring. And it was a very quick decision I think as far as I remember, the semester started right after I mean it was suspended and restarted right after the revolution.
[00:37:07]
Also I know a few courses that changed their curriculum despite ad hoc, despite that it was supposed to teach something. Halfway through they just like integrated the revolution in their, in their curriculum, which I think was which was a good step. Ah, other methods, I know that ah, the campus was still ah, open during the revolution. And through my interviews with workers, I found that they actually spent night shifts over here, just to maintain the security of the campus.
Interviewer:
How was the revolution affect, sorry, how did the University Administration react to the events of January and February?
Interviewee:
I’m not really sure, but I assumed they reacted [sighs] in a neutral fashion.
[00:38:00]
They did not oppose this and did not oppose that, until the outcome was out there and, and of course then the university started to initiate ah, programs, and courses as I said and projects like this one, to, to, to integrate the revolution and to be part of the revolution.
Interviewer:
Like a lot of people said AUC had the connection with the Mubarak regime-
Interviewee:
Mhm.
Interviewer:
Because a lot of snipers went on top of the roof-
Interviewee:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Of the AUC downtown campus?
Interviewee:
Well of course we all heard the story about the snipers, and I remember the debate that came out if AUC had an idea about that, and then the President said ah, it was absolutely, like we did not know at all, and I think the, there hasn’t been a resolution to this problem. So this is one thing the administration really needs to figure out. Also I mean we’ve all seen how we had a hall here called, the Suzanne Mubarak Hall.
[00:39:05]
Interviewer:
Yeah.
Interviewee:
And how it took quite a while to change that and I think the change is coming within the students, rather than from the administration, and I think this is the way administrations function usually, because here it’s not a one man decision kind of thing. You work in a framework, and you have to get consents of the board of trustees which included many, many, many, NDP members. Uh, I have to get the consent of the whole management team, and I think this is why decision here are made very slowly.
Interviewer:
How has the revolution affected the students at the AUC? Have you noticed changes in their opinions or engage, engagement with politics and social issues?
Interviewee:
Ah, of course, I don’t think, if the revolution had happened, we would have such a mass strike like the one we had here. I think the fact that people realize right now, that their voices could be heard, changed a lot.
[00:40:04]
And I think just like being self-empowered, this, this concept was absent within Egypt, and right now it’s been found and people are using it in various ways. Sometimes it’s effective, sometimes it’s ineffective, sometimes it’s useful, sometimes it’s harmful, sometimes it’s a means, and sometimes it’s protesting is an end in itself. But I think students are using this concept right now in the free expression I think ah, opinion, freedom of opinion on campus is ah, has become more and more amplified. I think also the Office Student Development changed some rules to publicity on campus, and right now it’s a lot easier to publicize for events, for causes. I think the regulations and even the student constitution is undergoing changes. So all these things signify how the revolution and how like having the sense of that your voice could be heard, or actually implemented on campus.
[00:41:08]
Interviewer:
Can you make comparison between AUC students and other Egyptian universities?
Interviewee:
I don’t think this is relevant. I think all students, all like this-
Interviewer:
Like a-
Interviewee:
Strata of each would have the same reaction. Maybe AUC students is always is always perceived like they’re more bubbled whose students never interact with their society. And I think this has kind of changed, because we’ve seen some of the prominent figures in this revolution, were actually AUC alumni or AUC students, we’ve seen how a project like this one is changing, is also trying to change this image, trying to get involved in the revolution, trying to document every, everything, anyone who was involved, had to say. So all these things kind of make AUC different, but in the long term, or in the grand scheme of things, I think all students from all universities have the same outlook.
[00:42:11]
Interviewer:
How have teaching and classroom discussions changed?
Interviewee:
For me, this semester I’m experiencing more discussions than I experienced before I went for my study abroad in Japan. Like I’m taking three journalism classes this semester and the three journalism classes have the revolution as a theme. So this gives you an idea how teachers here are trying to, to be as relevant and as conversational as possible. And having the revolution as the theme, it’s not only addressing what happened in January and February, but addressing what’s happening now because all that’s happening now is part of the revolution. So yeah.
[00:43:02]
Interviewer:
What do you think the near term and enduring changes in Egyptian political and social life will be?
Interviewee:
It’s hard to make expectations, because every day something happens. But I think like the rest of Egyptians that are awaiting parliamentary elections, and they’re awaiting how this will work out. I’m kind of hopeful. I really would like the parliamentary elections to reflect what the people actually want and would result in forming a new constitution that really reflects what the people want and the duties of everyone and the obligations of everyone, and the rights of everyone and this will follow and this will be followed hopefully by a fair and, and a transparent presidential elections.
Interviewer:
Can you compare that with your expectations for Egypt’s future before the revolution?
Interviewee:
My expectations for Egypt before the revolution were pretty ah, bleak.
[00:44:03]
Ah, I did not see a way out. I mean ah, my only expectation was, when Mubarak would ah, would die, Gamal Mubarak would take over. Or if the army would form a coup if they’re not in full view, favor of Gamal Mubarak so, I did not experience, I mean I did not expect that we’d have fair and democratic elections in the next five years, absolutely no.
Interviewer:
Has the revolution fundamentally changed some of your views?
Interviewee:
Yeah absolutely. Like I told you before, I was already forming my plans for graduate school abroad, as soon as I finished my undergraduate studies here at AUC. But right now, I’m kind of reforming my plans and I’m just how I almost perceive as Egyptians as passive and is completely changed right now.
Interviewer:
Is there anything you would like to add?
Interviewee:
No, thank you. That’s it.
[00:45:05]
[End of interview]