I would imagine the high population densities there have something to do with it, as well as the large number of poultry and pig farms and the practice of selling live animals (such as civet cats and poultry) at markets.

I would imagine the high population densities there have something to do with it, as well as the large number of poultry and pig farms and the practice of selling live animals (such as civet cats and poultry) at markets.

I entered the thread in order to post exactly what she said.

IANAexpert either, but I was born in SE Asia and still have lots of family there, as well as family that has immigrated here. In addition to the human crowding and the selling of livestock, humans, at least poor ones, tend to live in much closer proximity to animals than Americans or Europeans, even poor ones. For example, many poorer families in Vietnam, even in the city, raise chickens for food or sale. These chickens often run around the house among the family members, eating trash and bugs off the floor. Millions of people living in tight conditions, packed in with animals = recipe for disease.

Some of these countries are reluctant to allow international organization like WHO, or the CDC, to investigate potential outbreaks. If the likely effect of acknowledgement of problems is that half the pigs and chickens in your country will be slaughtered, impoverishing lots of your populace, you might be reluctant to acknowledge. Then there's the status issues -- the all-knowing better-than-thou Euromericans coming in telling you what do.

many poorer families in Vietnam, even in the city, raise chickens for food or sale. These chickens often run around the house among the family members, eating trash and bugs off the floor. Millions of people living in tight conditions, packed in with animals = recipe for disease.

In Guns, Germs, and Steel, Jared Diamond says that that kind of conditions are what spawned other epidemic diseases like smallpox. I'd certainly find it plausible that they could lead to transmission of new strains of flu from birds to humans.

I still thing the proximity to animals is what matter, or we'd have a lot of deseases starting in Monaco, Holland or Manhattan.

Well, diseases don't spread all that well in the first world as compared to the third world, not because of animals but because of lifestyle. You get sick, you stay at home, you don't have five kids and you try to not infect anybody, regardless of what you got sick with.

A totally WAG but I'd imagine if the first human case of <....> happened in the first world it is a lot more likely to get eliminated by that first persons immune system before he or she manages to infect anybody else. In the third world, specifically densely populated third world the chances of it infecting somebody are higher. Besides, the bigger the population the more likelihood you are going to find somebody susceptible enough for a given disease even if per capita % stays the same.

I had heard the reason so many viruses originate in Asia is because so many pigs are kept in close proximity to birds, like chickens and ducks. Birds pass along a virus to pigs who end up passing it to humans

A totally WAG but I'd imagine if the first human case of <....> happened in the first world it is a lot more likely to get eliminated by that first persons immune system before he or she manages to infect anybody else. In the third world, specifically densely populated third world the chances of it infecting somebody are higher. Besides, the bigger the population the more likelihood you are going to find somebody susceptible enough for a given disease even if per capita % stays the same.

Actually, it's the opposite. Our immune systems are relatively underdeveloped because we recieve much less exposure to pathogens.

I had heard the reason so many viruses originate in Asia is because so many pigs are kept in close proximity to birds, like chickens and ducks. Birds pass along a virus to pigs who end up passing it to humans

Well, diseases don't spread all that well in the first world as compared to the third world, not because of animals but because of lifestyle. You get sick, you stay at home, you don't have five kids and you try to not infect anybody, regardless of what you got sick with.

Five kids certainly isn't the norm in China. The image you paint of 3rd world countries seem more to resemble Sub-Saharan Africa, but the deseases we're talking about come from SE Asia and China.
I've been to Thailand and can give anecdotal evidence that they are very ficky about trying to keep things clean. They know they live in a tropical climate and adjust for it the best they can.
Actually, with some exceptions, I don't think it's fair to label these Asian countries as third world at all.

Actually, with some exceptions, I don't think it's fair to label these Asian countries as third world at all.

Well that's GD territory I think, but the proximity of people to people was my chief point. Unless you have hard number don't tell me that the average distance between a person in China and the closest other person, on average, is not significantly smaller than in the US or Russia or Sweden.