Stopped into the Gettysburg Trading post today. Was looking at a used Beretta Tomcat. Decided not to buy it - it was a little loose and I could not get the price I wanted. I was about to leave when I looked up on the display and there it was, ugly as sin. No one else was in the store so they let me fondle it as much as I wanted. I spent about twenty minutes with it and two of the employees who had not checked it out. They want $499 for it. I wanted it but I did not buy it largely because it’s winter and I won’t be able to shoot if for a couple months. This way, I will wait out any early recalls (and convince my wife that we need it).

It is ugly and it is very cool! Impressions follow.

It is certainly nearly 7 pounds. Weight is concentrated in the receiver where the heavy bolt and bolt counterweight are located so it has a low polar moment of inertia. It shoulders well for me and points naturally. The peep sight is easy to pick up. I actually liked the fact that the aperture is on the barrel side of the take down interface cause it’s easier for me to get it and the front sight in focus at the same time with my varifocal lenses.

The trigger is surprisingly good. It had about 2 mm of takeup, negligible creep and a clean break at about five pounds followed by a very short over travel. I did not assess the reset. If it were my rifle, I would not change a thing on the trigger and I love me a good trigger.

It looks like the trigger group is NOT identical to a 10/22, so aftermarket 10/22 full trigger groups won’t work. Unlike the 10/22, the bolt release works right - I.e. you can slingshot it. It might be possible to use some 10/22 trigger internals but, given how nice the trigger is, I would not change things. You can probably get it down to 2 pounds or so if the hammer, sear, etc are 10/22 compatible but I could not justify that for the intended uses of this gun.

Mags seat smoothly and solidly. The take down works just like the 10/22 takedown. As you know, the bolt and mag release are easily swapped for lefties. I won’t review the other stuff you all know - threaded barrel, lots of rail space, length of pull adjustment, etc.

The stock is solid, stiff and ugly but the stippling is really nice - aggressive but not painful. The design “feature” that looks like an adjustable comb is not that. It’s just a design element. Does it portend a future option? Who knows? It pissed me off. Maybe they plan to market fixed height comb risers and the outline in the stock is just an outline for them.

I think one thing that is perhaps a disappointment is that it looks improbable that an aftermarket stock will be coming soon. Maybe the foreend part but the rear part is pretty tightly integrated with the fire controls. I suspect that any serious attempt to do a new stock will take some time. However, I bet it would take a paint job really well, Klown.

The stock would be much better if the bottom of the front piece were not sloped up and if it just followed an extrapolation of the bottom of the rear piece. The eye of the beholder, I guess.

Bottom line, is it cool? Absolutely. Will I buy one? Not a doubt in my mind! If I had to choose right now between a CZ P-01 and one of these, which would I buy? The CZ. That’s another reason I did not buy the PC.

I drove a mile down the road and stopped the car to kick myself in the ass...

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Last edited by Bucolic on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Now I understand why everyone keeps saying it is heavy. Like the Hi-point (and Uzi) carbine, this is a strict blow back 9mm design. You need a very heavy bolt to soak up and manage the recoil energy from a 9mm round. Much more mass than a .22lr in any case.

Interesting...

"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Well, the weight is some concern. A CZ full stock 527 rifle is listed at 6 lbs. The Beretta Cx4 storm is just under 6 lbs. with a crappy, plastic trigger, and it only takes 92 magazines. The Marlin camp 9 was 6.75 lbs. Only Kel-Tec gets below 5 lbs. (4.25). The original Ruger Police Carbine was 7 lbs. This new one is listed at 6.8.

Now I understand why everyone keeps saying it is heavy. Like the Hi-point (and Uzi) carbine, this is a strict blow back 9mm design. You need a very heavy bolt to soak up and manage the recoil energy from a 9mm round. Much more mass than a .22lr in any case.

Interesting...

Thanks, all.

Yes, there is a substantial mass in the bolt and “counterweight.” However, as I said, it does seem to have a low moment of inertia so it’s nimbleness belies it’s weight. Kinda like the Porsche Boxster - with the mass concentrated midship, it has amazing cornering. Note that I am not comparing their pulchritude. The Boxster is beautiful; the PC is, well, it has a great personality....

Nice write up Bucolic. I'm glad I've already got a P01 The 7 pounds doesn't bug me too much at all, I'd bet the recoil is pretty negligible due to it. I'd been wanting the Camp 9 for years, but they are unobtainium unless you want to spend way more than they are worth, and no Glock mags. As to comparing it to a 527, I will say mine in 6.5 Grendel has a pretty stout amount of recoil for such a small round- the light weight of the rifle makes for good carrying, not so much for soaking up any recoil.

shinzen wrote: I'd been wanting the Camp 9 for years, but they are unobtainium unless you want to spend way more than they are worth, and no Glock mags.

I'm selling mine at Hickory Ridge Firearms in Medina, Ohio. I bought it on impulse. The recoil buffer disintegrated the first time I shot it. So, I replaced the buffer, recoil spring, stirrup, hammer spring, stirrup strut, magazine disconnect, and some other spring (maybe hammer return). Now it works well and is really accurate even with a red dot. I've got the Marlin 12 and 20 round mags and a S&W 15. All work really well. Also have 3 twenty round Mec-Gars which work well, but only with brass. Stock is really good, maybe some tiny dings, I don't really remember since it's at the store. $649. **shrug** Just saying.

My LGS had one today. I handled it and nearly took it...lest incur the wrath of my wife and a $600 CC notification while she's out of town. Hell hath no fury and whatnot.

Weight and balance is great, the trigger was surprisingly light and not gritty. Take up was average. Haters gonna hate, but I think it looks awesome. Throw on a red dot on the pic rail and it'll be that much cooler.

Oh, yeah, I'm sold on it. I'll buy the first one my dealer gets. Wondering if I should go with the blue state model. I don't use a suppressor and doubt I ever will, and if I ever have to move to a blue state, I won't have to get rid of the carbine first (like I would for my AR15). Anyway, the Ruger carbine looks like it has it all over my Beretta carbine with its plastic trigger group and 92 series mags. (In fairness, those plastic trigger parts have been extremely reliable). Plus, the Beretta's raised sights prevent mounting a scope, if I ever wanted one.