When I wrote my post yesterday, I think I was mainly in my mind, which made my post too long and a little chaotic. I would like to rewrite it in order to describe only the essence of my post of yesterday

My question is, does true love between two people exist, in the form of a romantic relationship? When listening to videos of spiritual leaders such as Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, etc., they do seem to talk about this possibility. Although many romantic relationships are based upon egoic love, which function as a distraction from the emptiness people feel inside, they also talk about romantic love that is different from this, that does not distract you from the process of awakening but actually reinforces this. Mooji for example calls it, 'the beloved', which reveals itself to you without any struggle, and you'll recognize it as the truth when it comes to you.

I'm asking this question, because 7 months ago I met somebody on the other side of the world for whom I felt something that I would describe like this. There was something pure, something real between us, a very strong connection that was new to me, but at the same time it felt very familiar (like I knew him from another life-time). Having been in an egoic destructive relationship for over 4 years, I recognized very clearly the difference between both relationships. When I was together with this person, I felt he actually pulled me out of unconsciousness, made me feel less complicated. And it all happened very naturally, we did not force or create anything, it was just there. Although it took me some time to fully give in to this feeling because I was still in another relationship, he was convinced about us from the very first moment (he could feel it intuitively).

However, due to circumstances, we have not seen each other for over 7 months (after having been together for only 1,5 month), during which we have communicated only through chat and Skype. Although sometimes I can still feel the connection and the vibration between us when we are very present (at Skype), it is true that the intensity of the feeling has diminished a little bit. Currently, a doubt has come into his mind due to another person in his life, for whom he is starting to feel something as well (although not the same as for me). Fortunately, there is only one month left, and we have decided to wait in order to see how we feel when we see each other again.

The essence of my question is, does true love between two people exist, and will it persist over distance and time? I simply cannot imagine something to be true love if it dissapears again in a few months. I don't mean that it will necessarily work out in a relationship, but if there is something true between two people, something that is not constructed by the mind, it should always be there right?

I'm just wondering what your opinion is regarding this subject. For now, I''ll try to let go and just trust the Universe that everything happens for a reason. If it is meant to be, it will probably happen, if it does not, it was probably not meant to be

Expectations are always the problem I think…I know, because I lived with so much expectations all my life..and now I am learning to live without this feeling, and it is not easy for me also

I believe in “my true love”, when I love, I believe this is true and that is all that matters…I think we cannot know if one person loves us, we will never know about the other people’s feelings.

You loved him, and it is a gift, you generated this love and sometimes the other person accept it, sometimes they don’t…and if he did not accept it you have this love with you now, to live your life.

You need to love yourself first. If you are expecting for other person or situation or thing to give you the love you need or to make you feel comfortable you can be disappointed.

“Your life is in transition from a caterpillar to a butterfly. Something may be saying: `Where is my leaf?’ Don't fear. Trust. All is well. How auspicious that Grace has picked you up like this. Hold this gratitude inside your heart” ~ Mooji

You're right, I should not to have any expectations at forehand, and I'm trying to let go of them. I also am very aware that my happiness does not depend on the love of another person, and even though the situation is very insecure at this moment (which makes me feel sometimes scared and alone), at other times I can feel my own strength and love inside very clearly. And I know that I'm going to be oke, even if this will not work out. The least thing I want is to live a lie, be in a relationship that is not for me, like my previous relationship. Therefore, I just want to go back in order to spend time in the presence of this person and listen very carefully to my intuition. Because until now, my intuition has not failed me in this regard. And if it is something true, and it is meant to be, then I'll probably find out

Of course there is true love when you truly love someone. Isn’t it “true love” right there ? I mean right here inside your mind/heart. . Turn your attention around toward yourself. Arn't you being true ? If so, then of course it will last--inside you. You will always remember . That’s how it lasts.

“There was something pure, something real between us” you wrote, “it all happened very naturally, we did not force or create anything, it was just there “
Lucky, lucky to have encountered such heavenly experience for you to savor with romantic jasmine tea here and now. ..Oh,The long distance..…The moon is so far away . Unattainable. Yet enjoyable without having to have it.

Is there going to be a reunion ?...Conversations With God, book 2 , P.98, “ Always put yourself first…This doesn’t mean selfish. It means being self aware.”
More on relationship: Book 1, p 124-125.

Could you be mixing up the love (essence of pure gratitude and generosity expressed) and the relating?

The love is real as experienced in the fullness of a moment that needs no thing.

The relating relies upon 'factors' - factors that may be conducive to the relating, or may not be. Underneath all the factors we are all pure love, but that does not eliminate the factors, nor do the factors eliminate the love that we are.

I know that I'm going to be oke, even if this will not work out.

This is true.

The least thing I want is to live a lie, be in a relationship that is not for me,

Honesty is the highest form of love

I'm with AlohaFriend, Conversations with God offers wonderful wisdom on love, and on relating.

When new information & factors arise love remains - even where the relating does not stay the same.

It's kind of where the nuances of better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all and had we never loved sae kindly, had we never loved sae blindly, ne'er been met, and ne'er been parted, we'd hae nae been broken hearted )Ae Fond Kiss Robert Burn come from.

We BE love, we SHARE love, we never own or dictate love, nor the circumstances / factors of its expressing.

Melkmeisje wrote:
You're right, I should not to have any expectations at forehand, and I'm trying to let go of them. I also am very aware that my happiness does not depend on the love of another person, and even though the situation is very insecure at this moment (which makes me feel sometimes scared and alone), at other times I can feel my own strength and love inside very clearly. And I know that I'm going to be oke, even if this will not work out. The least thing I want is to live a lie, be in a relationship that is not for me, like my previous relationship. Therefore, I just want to go back in order to spend time in the presence of this person and listen very carefully to my intuition. Because until now, my intuition has not failed me in this regard. And if it is something true, and it is meant to be, then I'll probably find out

It's almost impossible to let go of expectations in a relationship built on romance which I've learned first hand. When you see yourself as a person in love with another person, that image will continue to play out in 'your version' of life. It's one ego loving another ego. True love means that when a relationship ends, there is no needing or wanting for that person, just pure acceptance and love that the person came into your life and now you are ready to welcome new experiences/opportunities to express love.

Sounds like you are on the right path. Like you said, your happiness is not dependent on another in any shape or form. Of course you'll be ok Relationships are all passing experiences in our lives....romantic or non romantic. They come, they go, come, go. That's what experience is all about.....yourself relating to yourself in different forms. Without relating, there is no experience. The whole point is to experience them, be present, but not get too attached (the tough part!) to the stories they create.

Thank you so much for all of your insights And I'm sorry for responding so late, I didn't realize more people had responded to my post.

I'm not sure if I understand everything that has been said, but I'll try to explain how I perceive it.

I'm aware there is a possibility that it is my ego who is attached to the story of 'being in love with this person' and who is afraid to let go of this image, since it is a wonderful image We were going to live together in his beautiful house with a big garden and have many children and animals to take care of. So, yes, I'm aware of the possibility that my ego is involved in this as well, since I sometimes feel very scared and insecure when I think about losing this. That is why I try to be very honest with myself, because I don't want to live something that is not true just because I'm (my ego) is afraid to let go. That is also why I'm asking insight from you about this situation

But there is still something inside me that tells me that there might be something more than that. When I'm listening to videos of Eckhart Tolle, Mooji etc, and they talk about 'true love between two people', I simply recognize this very clearly from my experience with this person. I haven't been able to find all videos related to this, but this one example:

In the last few minutes (from 1:34 minutes unwards) he talks about true love and explains that when you are connected to your deeper I (Being), true love can exist between two people. Because you sense the same I (essence) in the other person, which is also your own identity. You recognize yourself in the other person. A deep connectedness is present, which is much deeper than something you can say or think.

Although I'm being very aware of the role of my ego in this (maybe its just my ego who wants to believe that I have experienced true love with somebody), I cannot help to feel a recognition when I'm listening these words. It was exactly how we experienced it. It was something that we could not describe in words, but we could both feel very strongly. When he looked at me, I felt he directly connected with my Inner Self, instead of looking at the 'superficial me' that is my ego. And it was the same for him. I just saw him, and he saw me. There was a recognition between us, like we knew each other from another life-time, and we were part of the same 'thing' (of each other).

This is a quote I found somewhere on this forum which really expains how I felt it:
Real friendship or love is not manufactured or achieved. Friendship is always an act of recognition. This metaphor of friendship can be grounded in the clay nature of the human body. When you find the person you love, an act of ancient recognition brings you together. It is as if millions of years before the silence of nature broke, his or her clay and your clay lay side by side. Then, in the turning of the seasons, your one clay divided and separated. You began to rise as distinct clay forms, each housing a different individuality and destiny. Without even knowing it, your secret memory mourned your loss of each other. While your clay selves wandered for thousands of years through the Universe, your longing for each other never faded. This metaphor explains [tries to render an explanation] how in the [first] moment of friendship, two souls suddenly recognise each other. ‘It could be a meeting in the street, or at a party, a lecture or just a simple, banal introduction, then, suddenly there is the flash of recognition and the embers of kinship of ancient knowing. Love opens the door of ancient recognition. You enter. You come home to each other, at last. As Euripides says: ‘Two friends, one soul.’’

In addition to this, another feeling I have is that this person has come into my life for a reason, maybe to support me in my process of awakening, quicken the pace of this process. For many years, the story I have been identifying myself with has been heavily influenced by 'social situations'. The self-image I have of myself is that I'm an insecure person, who is not able (allowed) to be spontaneous and self-secure around other (self-secure and spontenous) people, because that does not fit the image I have of myself. In the last few years (I'm now 27), I have had different experiences with 'being present', during which I could see very clearly that my self-image is an illusion and that I should not believe in this. Although there are periods during which I'm still heavily identified with my thoughts, when I practice presence and listen to spiritual leaders, I'm able to feel more and more the space inside me and let go of these thoughts. Nevertheless, I (my ego) still tends to avoid certain social situations because it requires a change in me. At one hand, when I'm not present enough during a social occassion, I tend to suffer because I feel insecure and unhappy with myself, which confronts me with my limited self-image and the need to awaken from this. On the other hand, when I'm present enough, there is space within myself that allows me to let go of my limited thoughts and interact more freely with people. Although the latter feels ofcourse very good because I feel connected to myself, the ego is still afraid of these experiences because it actually proves that my self-image is an illusion. Therefore, my ego prefers to avoid these situations because then I can just remain identified with my self-image, without suffering too much.

The reason why I somehow feel this person has come into my life for a reason, is because he is the opposite from me in this regard. For me, he is the most social person I know, he has many friends and he interacts very freely with anybody who comes on his way. As a result, there are many social occassions in his daily life, since he gets invited to almost every party and event. And I know that, if I would live with him, I would have to go to many of these social occassions as well, where I would be surrounded by people who normally make me feel the most insecure (on a superficial level, these people tend to be very self-secure, successful, rich and beautiful). This means that I would be confronted on a regular basis with the most unconcious aspect of myself, which may lead to more suffering, but may also provide the strong motivation I need to awaken from my story. Especially when I realize that the love between us is something real, something I should choose over the illusionary story that I have created of myself.

That is why I'm not sure if my ego is involved in creating a story of 'true love', or if maybe there is true love between us. Because on the one hand, I can feel that my ego would very much like it if I would stay in my own country and live a very quiet and normal life, where I would not be confronted too much with my own suffering. But there is something that tells me that I should go anyway, despite my insecurities and fears, because the love between us might be something real, something I should choose above my illusionary story.

However, I know that when I'm together with this person again, I need to be very honest with myself in order to see if the deep connection between us is still there, and if it is actually something real and not an imagination of the mind. If it is not there anymore, or if my intuition tells me to move on any way (let go without attachment), I know that is what I should do. And I know I will be oke whatever happens

I just talked to this person through Skype, and he told me that he is starting to feel more for his friend and that he is not sure whether or not I should still come to see him. He is afraid that he will get very confused when we see each other again and that he won't know what decision to make. I told him that I believe this is not a decision he needs to make, but is something that simply will become clear to him, when he becomes still and just listens to the answer. And I believe that the same will happen to me. If this is not the right path for us, we will simply know when we become still and listen to the answer. Mooji speaks about this very clearly:

However, I do feel that in order to feel this very clearly inside our hearts, it is necessary to be in each other's presence again, in order to feel exactly what we feel when we are together again. At this moment, we are not able to know, because we haven't seen each other for over 7 months. We have not been in each other presence, but we have only talked through Skype and chat. The connection that existed between us is mainly based upon a memory right now, although sometimes I can still feel it when we are very present.

But maybe I'm wrong? Would it be possible to come to this clarity without seeing each other again? I'm 'afraid' that he will rush this decision right now because it is easier (no more uncertainty and waiting), but maybe this will mean that there will always be a doubt in our hearts. That is why I would like to see him again in order know for sure, and let go without any pain or doubts. Because that is what I feel very clearly. If in the end it becomes clear that we'll have to let go of each other, and this is something we realize very clearly, then I will let go without any pain.

This is probably my ego speaking right now but there is something that keeps bothering me:

What I'm afraid of right now, is that I will never again feel that strong connection with somebody again, since I (my ego) believes that this probably happens only once in your life. And there is also the nagging idea that maybe it is all my own fault, that I was too slow with finishing my studies, which created the distance between us and the opportunity for him to get feelings for somebody else. That maybe because of my own doing, I lost something that I should not have lost.

I know this is my ego speaking, because these are the thoughts that are going through my head right now But I would love to have some insight about this. If something is 'meant to be', I cannot believe that this will simply change just because a few months have passed right? If we do not survive this, then probably it was never meant to be. Everything happens for a reason... right?

Melk said: We were going to live together in his beautiful house with a big garden and have many children and animals to take care of. So, yes, I'm aware of the possibility that my ego is involved in this as well, since I sometimes feel very scared and insecure when I think about losing this.

Hi Melk,
I see that you're online here so I'll try to be quick for you.

Firstly, you know what it is to be present in a moment and how wonderful that feels/is - you have experienced this.

Look at the quote above and see if you notice that none of it is in this present moment, and so you can not accurately experience any of it, you are imagining and projecting and then fearing losing something you never had.

You cannot ever lose love once expressed, or ever not KNOW a moment fully present. It just is what it is - that's what felt wonderful, you dropping your illusions and BEING, authentic and present.

Will you experience it again - absolutely any time you want to step into what is right now, right here - and fully be with and in it in the same way that you were with that person. You don't actually need any 'other' in order to experience love in this way.

There is also a notion that when we try to force things into what they are not... it will not feel 'right'. When we try to extend something outside of its natural occurring - all things are fleeting, they are not diminished by their fleetingness, nor is there a promise of return. Every moment is precious on its own and in its own way.

Gordon Livingston does a wonderful job explaining unrequited love - he says it is painful and it is not romantic - it's one person trying to force their projection and perspective in idolisation onto another.

If expressed shared love rockets through the skies like a flaming shooting star and burns out, no thing can ever take away that a) it did shoot through the sky, and b) that someone noticed / experienced it. One is changed every moment and so the 'effect' is permanent even if unknown.

Worrying about whether another shooting star or a slow burning more permanent one will ever light the night sky is a little bit of a waste of time when incredible snowflakes are falling right here, right now, and then tiny green shoots planted in seeds many months ago will find their way up out of hard ground and struggle to bloom.
It's not love and presence that is ever absent in our lives, it's us - whether we are love (gratitude & generosity) and present in any or every moment.

Are you making it easy for him to be fully honest?

Are you being fully honest with yourself?

As you know you will be fine. If you want love BE love. If you want presence, BE present.

Thank you so much for your wonderful post. I feel so grateful that I can post here and that people respond to me from a level of presence. I feel this is really important at this moment. You are pointing things out to me that probably I already know deep down inside of me, but I'm too afraid to recognize.

I cannot deny that at this moment, something inside me is holding on to the image I have of my life together with him, and I know that this is only a thought, and not something I'm experiencing in the moment. Sometimes when I feel disconnected, a strong fear and pain comes up, because of the idea that I will be alone, while he will start something new with his friend. But I know this comes from my mind, because I know that when I'm in presence 'everything is oke'. I know how that feels, but sometimes its difficult because my mind pulls me back into thoughts and emotions.

Although I'm aware of the possibility that something inside me is trying to hold on to something that has passed, at another level I know that I really do not want this. I have lived for four years in a relationship that has been a struggle, and I know now that love is something you should not force, but something that should just be there naturally. I know now that I have to be very present in order to recognize if I'm trying to force this again, out of fear of letting go.

There is only one doubt I have right now, and I hope somebody can give insight in this. Although I feel that I really want to know the truth about this situation, and that once I'll know the truth I will not force it into something else, I also have the feeling that this is more easy to find out when I'm in his presence again. When we are together again, we will be able to experience directly what kind of feeling/love is there between us, and in this situation, we should try to connect to our inner self in order to find the answer. If in this situation it becomes clear that we should let go of each other, I feel that it will not be that difficult for me to let go, because the answer appeared when we were in each other's presence. If the decision is 'made' right now, I'm afraid that there will always be a doubt in my heart, because we are not able to experience 100% what we feel for each other.

But I want to be very honest to myself. Maybe I still want to go there because I'm afraid to let go, and maybe its an illusion to think that the truth will only appear when I'm in his presence again.

I will try to be as present as possible in the next few weeks, and maybe the answer will appear naturally, even though I cannot feel exactly what I feel for him at this moment.

I know that when I feel fear and pain about this situation, it is because I'm in the past or thinking about the future. When I think about the memories we have, and all the things we felt and said to each other, something inside me is hurting, because this is not there anymore at this moment. Although it felt so secure and so strong, it still passed. When I think about the future, I feel fear for being rejected in person, and also fear to be alone for a very long time. But when I become more present, there is just a peace underneath it, and it's all oke. How beautiful is that I only notice that I find it difficult to remain present, because the thoughts and emotions I'm experiencing are very strong. But I should try to be present with my thoughts and emotions as well

I just keep writing here, although I'm not sure if somebody will still read this, but that's oke

I more and more have the feeling that I have to let go of this, because I feel that I"m currently trying too much to make it work, while I can notice that he wants to let go of it. Although there is a fear inside me for losing something very special, at the same time I feel that I'm pulling at him, trying to force something that just isn't there anymore. And that does not feel good, it does not feel natural. Although sometimes I get scared of the idea of letting it go, at the same time it gives me peace....to let everything be like it should be. Without trying, without forcing anything. At least that feels more natural to me.

But I cannot help to prevent thoughts from coming up that bring me back into time and remember how wonderful our time together was. And I feel so sad about it that we could only enjoy it so shortly. But I gues that is just my mind, because when I'm present, I feel there is peace at the same time.

Would it be oke to sometimes give in to my thoughts and emotions in order to let it all out, and then focus upon being present again? Because sometimes I feel that I'm surpressing my emotions, but I can feel they are there, and that maybe I should let them go.

I just keep writing here, although I'm not sure if somebody will still read this, but that's oke

When you add ... '... that's okay' to anything it opens the door to presence Melk. Through this door flows acceptance and clarity that in turn lights your way in the darkness. If I could suggest one thing for you to play with on this, if one uses 'but' it dismisses that which comes before it, and states another thing anew. If one adds 'and' it allows both to co-exist in this moment. So if you were to think / write / express, for example, I'm not sure if somebody will still read this, and that's okay... it seems to not pitch one against the other, if that makes sense. Then the two co-existing is honestly accepted.

I read your further posts above this one and could see they were half uttered realisations evolving, in your own presence they found their way through clearer. I didn't say more at that time, because nobody likes being told how they feel, what they know, or what to do. In truth no one else can tell anyone these things, one must find their way them self as clarity unfolds. At best one can let another know that yes, whatever happens, this too is okay.

My daughter used to have a gorgeous poster with all the things that 'guardian angels' (our higher selves) do - one of them that touched me the most was 'I don't worry about you, I believe in you.'
I don't worry about you.

Courage, according to wisdoms, is not the absence of fear or despair, it is facing them and travelling through it, and with love - presence, conquering them. I'm not so sure about the conquering, for some may see that as fighting against them, more for me reconciling them as understandable in some moments, but not being devastated by them, and then they subside.

Would it be oke to sometimes give in to my thoughts and emotions in order to let it all out, and then focus upon being present again? Because sometimes I feel that I'm supressing my emotions, but I can feel they are there, and that maybe I should let them go.

However you view it, making the journey of reconciliation - be it from one 'life' to another, or where expectations do not unfold in reality, for me, there is a grief process. These may be long or they may be short, depending on the amount of investment and the reasoning behind the expectations. Emotions that arise, do so with thoughts behind them, and this is okay too.

There may be many small and large things to reconcile. Reconciliation may be as short as a realisation and a sigh (letting go and moving with 'what is'), or they may require unpacking the expectation and/or growing into the reality, making adjustments in thinking and in behaviours, some which may have become habits or automatic responses.

So in my humble opinion a healthy journey of grief is one where 'okayness' and courage are employed as we walk that path. Emotions and thoughts both trigger and allow us to face ~ deal with and reconcile them. Supressing them does not reconcile them, ignoring or burying them bundles them into a little seed, that with the right 'environment' will sprout again, or build as hard clumps of unfinished business inside us.

Some I think of as brain-farts - far better out than in

I cannot help to prevent thoughts from coming up that bring me back into time and remember how wonderful our time together was. And I feel so sad about it that we could only enjoy it so shortly. But I guess that is just my mind, because when I'm present, I feel there is peace at the same time.

Here you have stated the co-existence of the joy of the past memory, and the sadness of an expectation unfulfilled - honour both honestly, for that is the level of awareness that you are at NOW.

Maybe do an expressed or silent - thank you for those wonderful times - and the thanks go to you, to your friend and to the universe for all of it coming together as it did. You all played a part in the unfolding of it.
Then with the sadness be your own guardian angel - touch it gently where it hurts and express that you acknowledge why that sadness is there, and that's okay too.

Elisabeth Kubler Ross' incredible wisdom about grief says that when these emotions knock at our door, open it say 'Oh it's you (or you again), come in.' Let them tell what it is they are here to tell you like a visitor (one who may return a few times), to tell you different things that evoke the same emotion). She very wisely says, let them in and acknowledge them there, yet "don't set a place at your table for them" - do not define yourself or your life by them - you are a traveller on a journey, not a victim of aspects of it, they are a visitor only. Then when you have heard what they have to tell you, show them the door.

You do not have to wait for the reconciliation of what they are telling you before showing them the door. The tear you do not cry will be the one that trips you up next time but one can shed a tear without holding onto the emotion of sadness, for instance. One can process the information that gives rise to anger, without holding onto the anger.

Earlier you said you felt that this man was meant to come into your life - that it was meant to be - and I would agree. Look at the gift of knowing and honouring your self that it is allowing to blossom - not as you 'thought it would be', as it really is.
You will not only survive this, you will bloom and grow. That is what life really is.