May 11, 2011

Americans use their cars more, so the pain is greater. They have, on average, a longer daily commute than all Europeans, except Hungarians and Romanians. Public transport is generally poor so many Americans have no alternative but to drive.

But there is also a symbolic significance about gas that goes to the heart of what America is.

It signifies mobility, freedom and personal liberty, says Dan Neil, motoring correspondent on the Wall Street Journal. "Anger is probably more tied up with a wider sense of decline and also a loss of privilege. Cheap gas has been one of the prerogatives of the American Empire so people have become accustomed to it in a way which is somehow associated with our ability to wield our will around the world. We're mad because we've spent a lot of money in the Middle East and made a lot of enemies and defended a lot of tyrants and still gas prices go up."

Europeans pay twice as much, and they don't get angry. Maybe that goes to the heart of what Europe is.

211 comments:

Most of the world should be glad we're not an "empire". If we truly were, in the historical sense of the world as used to describe nation-states, we would have steamrolled, subjugated, colonized, and exploited the rest of the world starting on November 18th, 1991.

Most of the world should be glad we're not an "empire". If we truly were, in the historical sense of the world as used to describe nation-states, we would have steamrolled, subjugated, colonized, and exploited the rest of the world starting on November 18th, 1991.

There used to be Europeans who liked physical mobility and understood how it related to social mobility. Those are the ones that walked to ports and took boats across the ocean and populated great cities and moved far across North America to own their own land.

The Europeans still in Europe aren't angry about petrol prices, but that doesn't mean they're not angry. They're angry about Americans. Lucky bastards.

I'm not angry when I pay for gas. People are angry? You'd think they'd be used to it by now. I’d say there’s anger at “Big Awl fer gaugin’ the People” and at the Administration for not expanding production…..and it’s less anger and more BUDGETTING…take your 1,500 mile journey, what will you have to GIVE UP in order to pay for that $240 trip? When petrol was $1.80 the same trip would only have cost you $108…so where does the difference come from? Yeah from all the other aspects of your personal economy.

I'm not angry when I pay for gas. People are angry? You'd think they'd be used to it by now. I’d say there’s anger at “Big Awl fer gaugin’ the People” and at the Administration for not expanding production…..and it’s less anger and more BUDGETTING…take your 1,500 mile journey, what will you have to GIVE UP in order to pay for that $240 trip? When petrol was $1.80 the same trip would only have cost you $108…so where does the difference come from? Yeah from all the other aspects of your personal economy.

One thing this article did not do was document any anger about rising gas prices. The only evidence of our supposed outrage were some people at a gas station in suburban DC who said that high gas prices were hurting them and the fact that TV talking heads argue about gas prices a lot.

One thing this article did not do was document any anger about rising gas prices. The only evidence of our supposed outrage were some people at a gas station in suburban DC who said that high gas prices were hurting them and the fact that TV talking heads argue about gas prices a lot.

But there's an exemption if that anger is directed at the government for cutting services. They'll riot over a tuition increase but they're perfect little bitches about rising commodities.

(I was skyping with a friend of mine in Durham, UK, who was shopping for groceries on Tesco's website for home delivery [this is a common service since gas is so expensive and lugging groceries home on their 'superior public transport' is still a pain in the ass.], and he paid nearly $6 for 12 eggs. Everything is more expensive there. Everybody there is used to it.)

My annoyance about gas prices is due to how Obama talked about energy independence but then has done everything to prevent that from happening. The foot dragging on permits, canceling permits already granted, closing off land with weird designations (and then proposing to send money to Brazil to help them drill for oil) is simply nuts.

However, even eliminating diversion of gas taxes to light rail, high speed rail, bike paths and bridges to nowhere, we may not pay enough to properly update, repair and maintain our roads.

But the additional needed tax revenues don't nearly explain the difference between Euro and US prices. For example, the US average, per wiki, is $0.48 fed and state tax versus $3.61 duty rate per US gallon in the UK. Oooh, bonus, add in a 17.5% VAT on the whole mess, fuel cost and duty rate - tax heaped on tax.

However, even eliminating diversion of gas taxes to light rail, high speed rail, bike paths and bridges to nowhere, we may not pay enough to properly update, repair and maintain our roads.

But the additional needed tax revenues don't nearly explain the difference between Euro and US prices. For example, the US average, per wiki, is $0.48 fed and state tax versus $3.61 duty rate per US gallon in the UK. Oooh, bonus, add in a 17.5% VAT on the whole mess, fuel cost and duty rate - tax heaped on tax.

I particularly like the conclusion that we fought these wars for something, cheap gas, that we didn't get.

Of course, if we wanted to fight a war to steal oil, we could actually do this a lot more easily than this hearts and minds reform we're attempting.

The sad truth is that Europe is to blame for much of the problem in the Middle East, not that I believe the sins of the father should pass to new generations.

They don't like that we're not really an Empire. That's so uneuropean. We fawn over actors or artists, and they fawn over the offspring of the offspring of the offspring of so-called nobles.

They should thank God that the American triumph over Europe came before nuclear weapons. I can only imagine the sorry state of the world where a King was a super power with modern American weapons.

Oil is the lifeblood of our economy, and expensive fuel means less food, less jobs, less everything except perhaps alternative fuels (Which I would love to see, of course).

Anyone who doesn't understand why expensive gas frustrates Americans is extremely insular, I assume because they rely on mass transit, something that is extremely unsustainable if applied to all of America.

I'm angry because I know that the answer to having enough supply of oil and refined gasoline could have been solved decades ago.

We hear the same tired explanations and excuses. It will take 10 years to have a supply on line. I've heard that one for the last freaking 45 years.

The government shuts off the access to development and makes it difficult if not impossible to explore and develop sources.

We have administrations for the last 40 years and especially NOW, who are actively antagonistic towards business and use 'big oil' as a whipping boy everytime the economy is in the tank.

All of this leaves us at the mercy of the oil cartels, our declining currency (artifically depressed thanks to the Fed's actions) and a supply demand curve that is being stressed due to rapid expansion of demand in the developing world.

We don't have a decent public transportation system or alternatives to driving long distances. Mostly a function of the fact that most of our individual States are larger than many countries in Europe. There is no comparison.

So yes, everytime we fill up the tanks in our work vehicles at 4.69 for regular or 5.10 for diesel several times a week......damned right....I'm angry because it means that much less money to spend on other frivilous things like....oh...I don't know...FOOD and clothing.

I can tell you why I'm pissed. We have 1.2 trillion barrels of oil equivilent in shale in the western US. That's about 200 years worth that can be extracted for less than half of what we are paying for it now. Oh yeah, someOne banned using shale to get oil. That idiot is messing with our freedom of movement. The Europeans are passive because they are boiled frogs.

What's at issue here is how much more Government could be funded through energy taxes. The Administration looks with envy at a Government like Holland's which extracts a much heavier burden from companies like Royal Dutch Shell and from its own private citizens. Meanwhile, the Dutch (and other European) citizens are so well trained that they even cheerlead our "comeuppance."

Ah, so we're one of those world-spanning, will-wielding Empires that flaunts its terrible resolve by, um, buying a vital national resource at market prices. Whenever a Brit talks about our alleged imperialism I can't help but think they're projecting. Or maybe just nostalgic.

Anyway, were we an actual Empire we would not be worrying about cheap gasoline because we'd own the Middle East and all of the Americas. And the British would among the many quaint administrative regions flying the proud Sword & Stripes of the US European Territories. And I bet that their gas would be cheaper, too.

What's at issue here is how much more Government could be funded through energy taxes. The Administration looks with envy at a Government like Holland's which extracts a much heavier burden from companies like Royal Dutch Shell and from its own private citizens. Meanwhile, the Dutch (and other European) citizens are so well trained that they even cheerlead our "comeuppance."

The haute monde of Europe may not get mad, but IMO the people do. Every Italian man we met on tour wanted to marry an American and come to the US and start a business. Yeah, everything is free, but your taxes are 60% of income, even for tour guides.

Anyone who doesn't understand why expensive gas frustrates Americans is extremely insular, I assume because they rely on mass transit, something that is extremely unsustainable if applied to all of America.

If we only spend the $2 trillion it will take to mass-transit-ize America we will discover the joys of it!

I've taken two long road trips in Europe (most recently last fall when we took delivery of our new Volvo at the factory) and I must say that drivers in Europe are fantastic. It's a privilege, not a right, and as a result the people who are driving are generally more courteous and obey the rules of the road...most importantly, they get the hell out of the left lane unless they're actively passing someone. They are also generally driving much smaller and better maintained vehicles. I can't remember being irritated by a single bad driver in more than 3,000 miles of driving in Europe. One commute here is enough to raise my blood pressure. If the higher price of gas takes most of the terrible drivers off the road, bring it on. While we're at it, can we making flying a luxury again, as well?

I am angry that we subsidize the oil companies who make huge profits off the increase in gas prices while refusing to drill in the hundreds of sites they already have deeds to drill, because they can make more profits not drilling. I am angry because my 1957 Studebaker Champion got 30mpg and was ignored and still beats most autos made today.

Free healthcare has been one of the prerogatives of the British Empire so people have become accustomed to it in a way which is somehow associated with their sense of moral superiority over the rest of the world

Oh, sheesh. First of all, Europeans have longer commutes than Americans do (by time, not by distance). And Europeans have a huge auto industry and drive a LOT. Traffic around big cities in Europe is worse than the worst in the U.S. (Paris is worse than LA):

If you go to Europe and drive around, you find that life on the road is just not that different (other than worse congestion in urban areas)--if you didn't know, you'd hardly be able to tell you were on a French autoroute rather than a U.S. expressway. Fuel prices are higher there, yes, but cars are smaller and there are lots of high MPG diesels with manual transmissions, so fuel cost per mile is much closer than the price per gallon.

Oh, sheesh. First of all, Europeans have longer commutes than Americans do (by time, not by distance). And Europeans have a huge auto industry and drive a LOT. Traffic around big cities in Europe is worse than the worst in the U.S. (Paris is worse than LA):

If you go to Europe and drive around, you find that life on the road is just not that different (other than worse congestion in urban areas)--if you didn't know, you'd hardly be able to tell you were on a French autoroute rather than a U.S. expressway. Fuel prices are higher there, yes, but cars are smaller and there are lots of high MPG diesels with manual transmissions, so fuel cost per mile is much closer than the price per gallon.

Alex: (the US shale oil)That's not likely to be economically feasible to extract even 60% of that.BullThat's the average cost for all of it and includes environmental costs, if you don't include the global warming idiocy.

"Every Italian man we met on tour wanted to marry an American and come to the US and start a business."

I find that odd. I was in Italy last summer for 3 weeks - Milan, Venice, Rome, southern Italy. Talked to many people there. (I speak Italian) Young, old, and in-between. I didn't hear one person say he wanted to come to the US, except to visit.

Sounds like you definitely found some outliers. Or were being played for a stupid tourist...

I am angry that we subsidize the oil companies who make huge profits off the increase in gas prices while refusing to drill in the hundreds of sites they already have deeds to drill, because they can make more profits not drilling.

In that case, roesch is like every other Lefty - no thought, just perpetually aggrieved.

The margin for the oil companies is 7 cents a gallon, one of the worst margins in manufacturing.

And a deed to drill does not mean oil is there, only that there are conditions which indicate a possibility of oil. Once the actual survey says, "No oil", not much point in wasting money.

If only Obama could drill more. And then 10 yrs later we could knock off a whole .3 per gallon. Seriously!

The above sarcastic remark would carry more sting if we weren't currently on Year 20 of listening to Democrats explain that there's no point in drilling because the benefits won't arrive for years.

I can understand why some 80 year old Senate behemoth doesn't give a rat's ass about gas prices ten years from now. He'll be dead, and in any case just bills the government for his expenses anyway.

But I personally plan to be alive in ten years. So sneering "it'll only cut prices a little, and not until ten years from now" translates to "so it is glaringly obvious that we should start right away".

Europe is made up of small, compact, densely populated countries with far, far fewer cars on the road, as is readily apparent to anyone who visits. They don't use cars very much, let alone depend on them. Never have and probably never will. $4 means nothing to them.

If only Obama could drill more. And then 10 yrs later we could knock off a whole .3 per gallon. Seriously!

This is why so many people think lefties are stupid. Bill Clinton gave the same argument fifteen years ago and it was as phony then as now. Gas prices (and oil prices for you humanities majors) would fall if we showed that we WERE going to drill and increase the supply.

If you understood economics, you would realize that. Markets discount new information immediately, not ten years later.

We should have only three over-arching priorities at this time:1- Fix the economy and the govt deficit. 2- National security.3- Develop a sensible, balanced energy policy.

If an elected official talks about anything else, he should be thrown in a dungeon for many years. For example, I heard two Illinois Republicans want to tax the parents of fat kids! WTF are they thinking?

The inevitability of being used and abused by he ruling aristocrats is European. The will to be free and govern ourselves is American. That is the big difference between King Obama's boys and the attitude that Sarah Palin brings into governance. Obama really loves the UN and its Aristocracy of wealthy tyrants, but Palin really hates their organized crime like she hated the GOP's professional thieves in Alaska's oil and gas development. What is important is that Palin will keep the world's investors here because she is an honest person wjo will run an honest shop , while the world's criminally organized kings and tyrants desperately desire to end that American exceptionalism forever, declaring it over as we speak.

The inevitability of being used and abused by he ruling aristocrats is European. The will to be free and govern ourselves is American. That is the big difference between King Obama's boys and the attitude that Sarah Palin brings into governance. Obama really loves the UN and its Aristocracy of wealthy tyrants, but Palin really hates their organized crime like she hated the GOP's professional thieves in Alaska's oil and gas development. What is important is that Palin will keep the world's investors here because she is an honest person wjo will run an honest shop , while the world's criminally organized kings and tyrants desperately desire to end that American exceptionalism forever, declaring it over as we speak.

some of his critics say he should be doing more to liberate restrictions on American drilling.

Above is the second to the last sentence in the article and the heart of the frustration and anger of many Americans. Our government cares little about the everyday person. The ruling class is too busy catering to fringe groups that will give them that slim edge they need to win the next election.

Working Americans get screwed by the government more than any private company could get away with screwing their employees.

I'm not sure where they get the idea that our gas is "cheap". It is priced according to market conditions. What they don't like is the fact that our gas is not taxed as high as it is in Europe. now if you want to see cheap gas then check out places like Indonesia where IIRC the government subsidizes gasoline in order to artificially keep the price low

There are several non-conventional sources of oil: Oil sands (which are being widely exploited in Canada), coal to oil (which is being done commercially in South Africa), natural gas to diesel in (IIRC Oman)and shale which I think is not being done commercially yet.

The problem for most of these is that even after discounting for the billions that would go into constructing plants and other infrastructure, they still cost more than OPEC can do on a marginal cost basis. So, investors are reluctant to build when OPEC can open the spigot and ruin the project by selling at below the marginal cost for non-conventional oil.

We could use the strategic reserve as a way to avoid this whipsaw effect. Set in place a policy to buy oil at a price just above what the non-conventionals need to make a profit (say $50/bbl) also have a policy to sell oil from the reserve when prices are too high (say anytime they are above $100/bbl). The combination of these things will ensure stable pricing and to the extent action is taken, we make a profit.

When I was living in the UK in the late 90s, fewer than 50% of Brits had drivers licenses. They're not necessary. And to get one takes an investment of at least a year's time in Driver's Ed at the cost of around $2,000-$3,000.

Of course, they don't use cars the way Americans do.

I had a visiting Brit come to the realization of just who different Europe and the US are when she noted that after four hours of driving, she was still in the same state. You can't do that in any European country (excepting Russia or places with really bad roads).

Heading to my 15th year grad school class reunion at the University of London next week. Not looking forward to the inevitable political ambushing that is standard at such meetings. As Bill Kristol once said, "Talking to Europeans about American politics is like debating metaphysics at a pajama party of teenage girls". Ugh!

I will now tell my favorite a story of being a Foreign Service Officer. Probably told it before, but...

I was a consul in a European country that was not yet EU (so passport still necessary) but where virtually every visa applicant was accepted. My job was to ask a few questions, try to ascertain that they had no nefarious or illegal reasons for visiting, then approve the visa. Soul sucking.

Anyway, from time to time, I'd get perfectly nice people who wanted to visit the United States for a few weeks and drive to and from places that you simply can't drive to in the time they allotted. I asked my boss what to do? She just smiled -- being much more seasoned than I -- and said that Europeans all think the United States is the size of Western Europe. Let them learn, she said.

This is why so many people think lefties are stupid. Bill Clinton gave the same argument fifteen years ago and it was as phony then as now. Gas prices (and oil prices for you humanities majors) would fall if we showed that we WERE going to drill and increase the supply.

So show us the cost of a gallon of gas, today, if we had drilled everywhere we could 10 yrs ago. I think it's funny that Obama must do something about the cost of gas, [what exactly is never spelled out], but trying to do something about the cost of health insurance premiums is evil SOCIALISM.

What's up with Hungarians and Romanians and their long commutes? That's a far more interesting question than the anger hypothetical.

1) For European countries, the nations are not very densely populated. (And hate each other, but that's just trivia.)

2) Socialist planning. What little housing their governments built, they built close to the big industrial projects. When the industrial projects went bust, the workers had to look for jobs elsewhere, lengthening the conmutes.

Obama can not do something about the price of gas today. But if he cared about the country, he'd be doing something about the price of gas 10 years from now.

He really does think he's doing something. He nominated Steven Chu to head the DOE, and Obama relies on him to formulate policy according to mandates and goals spelled out in that document I linked at 2:59 PM.

These guys are dead serious about the evils of fossil fuels. Read the document. Chu has toned down his alarmist rhetoric somewhat compared with the past, but it's still the guiding principle.

Higher fuel prices will save us from ourselves & Obama believes and blesses this policy. We just don't know & appreciate it yourselves yet. But when we do know it, we will kiss his ring. Or so he hopes.

Lemme think about this a moment.Why should I be upset with $4 a gallon gas?I'm a carpenter. I drive as much as 60 miles one way in a pickup loaded with tools, and lumber and often pull a trailer of logs.What European does that? What high brow European carries a truck load of tools on the train? What wonderful low-brow European does that?Furthermore, what green weenie electric car is going to do that? Often, my 'power tool' is a gas chainsaw because there's no electricity. Those morons piss me off with their stupidity. Goddamn libs.If they'd let Americans drill for oil instead of fucking commie countries, we wouldn't be having this problem. But guess what- we have a bat eared fag in the White House.Shy III

Chickelit....No educated scientist believes in trace gas CO2 warming up this rapidly cooling globe, but every government fed High Priest is a true believer in the Governmental Religion's ability to save us from scary stuff. They must make up the new hoax scary stuff faster than a Hollywood writer. That Obama is perfectly willing to send all working Americans, and sooner or later the lazy government High Priests as well, into a replay of the 1700s Malthusian economic death spiral makes Obama our #1 enemy.

Lemme think about this a moment.Why should I be upset with $4 a gallon gas?I'm a carpenter. I drive as much as 60 miles one way in a pickup loaded with tools, and lumber and often pull a trailer of logs.What European does that? What high brow European carries a truck load of tools on the train? What wonderful low-brow European does that?Furthermore, what green weenie electric car is going to do that? Often, my 'power tool' is a gas chainsaw because there's no electricity. Those morons piss me off with their stupidity. Goddamn libs.If they'd let Americans drill for oil instead of fucking commie countries, we wouldn't be having this problem. But guess what- we have a bat eared fag in the White House.Shy III

we would have steamrolled, subjugated, colonized, and exploited the rest of the world starting on November 18th, 1991.1945 was a better point. Instead of allowing the russian to reach Berlin first,save the germans from the russian and then the latter to the Bering sea. Or even 1919, UK broke. Germany destroyed and Russia in civil warAnd btw in ppp oil is cheaper than in 1979

America is a big continent. It is not like the Canadians have a better mass transit system. We fly to get to far places. Otherwise we drive. Our towns are decentralized.

And yeah, we don't like paying $4 a gallon for gasoline. I do not cry or knash teeth over it, but I do not care for paying more. That the British are fine with paying $8 a gallon (or for four liters) just means they are chumps.

America is a big continent. It is not like the Canadians have a better mass transit system. We fly to get to far places. Otherwise we drive. Our towns are decentralized.

And yeah, we don't like paying $4 a gallon for gasoline. I do not cry or knash teeth over it, but I do not care for paying more. That the British are fine with paying $8 a gallon (or for four liters) just means they are chumps.

An unintended consequence of the Administration's policy is that anything energy intensive "Made-In-America" will become intrinsically more expensive because we are being coerced into using relatively more expensive alternative energy sources (more expensive with respect to cheap hydrocarbons still found in Russia and the Middle East—which others will still use).

One angle I can envision (that doesn’t spell economic suicide for us) is that if our currency becomes so devalued with respect to other currencies, things we produce will become profitable again for export. That and our Ag products, which we've always been able to export, an up-and-coming Brazil notwithstanding.

"Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump, as of yet..."

Having more oil would raise the price?

I do not know what the price of oil will be in 10 years, relative to today. But I damn well know that if we begin more drilling projects today, the price of oil in 10 years will be lower relative to the price of oil in 10 years if we don't.

"Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump, as of yet..."

Having more oil would raise the price?

I do not know what the price of oil will be in 10 years, relative to today. But I damn well know that if we begin more drilling projects today, the price of oil in 10 years will be lower relative to the price of oil in 10 years if we don't.

@Don't Tread, you're certainly right about British cuisine, if I can debase the term "cuisine" by applying it to British cooking.

First time I was in the UK (as a student with a BritRail pass) I had bangers and mash. I ordered it again in a second city because I couldn't believe that the food could be that bad -- it had to be an aberration.

Except it wasn't. Based on that trip I am convinced that British bangers consist of nothing but sawdust and grease.

S-V, are you not aware that after 200 years of success, the UAW drove Studebaker out of Indiana and the US into Canada, and after a few years out of existence? Why do you people never learn the negative results of your desires?

At this point the United States has grown dependent on cheap gasoline. I have had young engineers working for me or that I'm otherwise acquainted with who live wa-a-a-a-y out in the countryside so that they could afford to buy a house with a little land where they and their wives can raise kids with some lawn for the little ones to run on.

Raise the price of gas enough and those engineers would have negligible takehome pay after they paid for gasoline. And it should not escape anyone's notice that they can't readily sell their houses in today's market -- thanks to Franks, Dodd, Obama, and the rest of the Democrat party.

American liberals and Europeans want American families to live in the city and to have their kids play in the street.

You are thinking in terms of economics; it is mind-bogglingly simple to reason than an increase of supply of a commodity will lead to a lower price. Common sense, logic, and experience tells you the world works that way.

But he's thinking in ideological, even religious terms: every good-thinking person knows that fossil fuels are evil; every good-thinking person knows that drilling is bad. BUT high prices hurt poor people... so, we conclude, on faith, that drilling for oil in the US would not help poor people.

At this point the United States has grown dependent on cheap gasoline. I have had young engineers working for me or that I'm otherwise acquainted with who live wa-a-a-a-y out in the countryside so that they could afford to buy a house with a little land where they and their wives can raise kids with some lawn for the little ones to run on.

Raise the price of gas enough and those engineers would have negligible takehome pay after they paid for gasoline. And it should not escape anyone's notice that they can't readily sell their houses in today's market -- thanks to Franks, Dodd, Obama, and the rest of the Democrat party.

American liberals and Europeans want American families to live in the city and to have their kids play in the street.

You are thinking in terms of economics; it is mind-bogglingly simple to reason than an increase of supply of a commodity will lead to a lower price. Common sense, logic, and experience tells you the world works that way.

But he's thinking in ideological, even religious terms: every good-thinking person knows that fossil fuels are evil; every good-thinking person knows that drilling is bad. BUT high prices hurt poor people... so, we conclude, on faith, that drilling for oil in the US would not help poor people.

"The above sarcastic remark would carry more sting if we weren't currently on Year 20 of listening to Democrats explain that there's no point in drilling because the benefits won't arrive for years."

I remember being lectured to about this when Clinton was in office.

Hell, I remember being lectured about this when CARTER was in office. Of course the other boogey man was global cooling, the coming ice age, instead of global warming.

Also butter is bad, coffee is bad and a whole bunch of other happy horseshit that we now know was all completely false. However, the falsity, didn't stop the government from slowly taking over our lives and micromanaging everything ....did it?

No I'm just skeptical of the claim that drilling in the U.S. will effect the price of gas at the pump in any meaningful way. It's not even "our" oil to begin with, is it?

You really are this thick.

Once the oil is on the market, it doesn't matter whose oil it is, it needs to find a buyer. If Saudi Arabia decides to increase production, the price of oil will adjust downward.

Now, to the rest of the posters/lurkers:

There are two additional benefits to increasing domestic production:

First, rather obviously, it would increase total domestic output--it would make us richer directly.

Second, it would make it harder for the price to really skyrocket; since production in the US is more expensive, as the price goes up, more areas become profitable, and production at those times could be higher.

Public transport is generally poor so many Americans have no alternative but to drive.

Not so much as poor but impractible outside of major cities. About five years ago during the Hilly Hundred, this Dutch chick who was an exchange student was lecturing some of us about how the Dutch ride everywhere and how we Yanks should do that too. I reminded her that Indiana is about the size of Holland and we are just one of 57 states that are bigger than her pissant country so bikes aren't practical for day to day commute.

Public transport is generally poor so many Americans have no alternative but to drive.

Not so much as poor but impractible outside of major cities. About five years ago during the Hilly Hundred, this Dutch chick who was an exchange student was lecturing some of us about how the Dutch ride everywhere and how we Yanks should do that too. I reminded her that Indiana is about the size of Holland and we are just one of 57 states that are bigger than her pissant country so bikes aren't practical for day to day commute.

Surely you don't look to countries like Venezuela or Mexico, or Cuba as models?

I don't think we're sitting on nearly enough oil. But I say of Exxon drills on our soil or waters, gets billions of taxpayer subsidies, they sell it to us cheaper than anyone else. And start paying some fucking taxes.

"That the British are fine with paying $8 a gallon (or for four liters) just means they are chumps."

They are apparently fine with bad teeth, too. And to make matters worse, bad food. I don't give a rip what they think.

5/11/11 6:12 PM

I actually like pub fare (scotch eggs rock) and properly done fish and chips (although Italians do better fried fish by far). I consider ale to be food. Ale also should be the base of the food group pyramid. But beyond that, I totally agree.

You might want to look at your deed. In many places the government does own any oil, coal, minerals and other valuables under your property. In many places the government specifically reserved those rights. Usually it says they cannot disturb the surface to get them (without paying you damages).

You might want to look at your deed. In many places the government does own any oil, coal, minerals and other valuables under your property. In many places the government specifically reserved those rights. Usually it says they cannot disturb the surface to get them (without paying you damages).

Agreed. here in NY state our representative retard Chucky Schumer crowed about how Florida's loss of funds was NY's gain...so NY could waste the money on a high speed train from Albany to Buffalo. Woo hoo.

Why? Best most of us working squids can tell, so ole Chucky can claim credit for the 'spoils' he got for NY. Only reason anyone might ride to Albany is to lobby the dem apparatchik. Aha!

Agreed. here in NY state our representative retard Chucky Schumer crowed about how Florida's loss of funds was NY's gain...so NY could waste the money on a high speed train from Albany to Buffalo. Woo hoo.

Why? Best most of us working squids can tell, so ole Chucky can claim credit for the 'spoils' he got for NY. Only reason anyone might ride to Albany is to lobby the dem apparatchik. Aha!

I don't think we're sitting on nearly enough oil. But I say of Exxon drills on our soil or waters, gets billions of taxpayer subsidies, they sell it to us cheaper than anyone else. And start paying some fucking taxes

What a bunch of economically illiterate gobbledygook. Gas is expensive because crude oil is expensive, full stop. Exxon does not set the price of crude oil. If anyone sets the price of crude, it's the Saudi government, but even they're just the biggest producer among many.

If you want the price of oil to go down, someone somewhere needs to produce more, whether that's us or the Saudis or Russia or whoever. I figure it may as well be us.

As an investor in Canadian oil companies trying to extract heavy crude in places from China to Ecuador. I have to laugh at some of the simplistic thinking about drill in our own yard and quickly. Its taken years and costs millions just to get heavy crude processed and converted to a product that meets pipeline specifications, and then it still may not be marketable. And when there are indications that the China market is cooling, as there was today the stocks and the progress take a dip. Oh yea supply and demand, trust me as the cost of drilling in the future will be high, the price of gas will not be cheaper, but you can count on the profits being huge just as they are today. To cover your ass figure out which oil stocks to buy, just like the way to cover your electronic costs was to buy apple five years ago, because big oil and government will work together to screw you.

Cheap gas prices do more than make it possible for people to commute to work, give them more choices about where to work within a reasonable commute radius, give them more choices about where to live, and drive whenever they want to for non-working reasons.

Cheap fuel allows the distribution of food and goods and aids manufacturers to reach consumers. It's good for the economy far far beyond an individual's personal pain when they fill their gas tank.

"I'm saying they should. And since nobody here can produce one shred of evidence that paying Exxon with tax payer dollars to drill on our soil benefits us economically, I'll remain unswayed. "

First prove Exxon is 'paid' with taxpayer dollars to drill 'our' soil.Second the only time you can use the expression 'our soil' is if you are standing on property that you have a fee simple deed to and have a mouse in your pocket.

Again: the recent spike in gas prices. Where is the evidence there was a shortage of global oil supply?

The spike in the price of crude oil is the evidence of a relative shortage in the global oil supply. Likewise, id oil prices decline sharply, that is evidence of a relative glut in the global oil aupply.

One of the main so-called subsidies that Mr. Obama wants to eliminate is for the expensing of intangible drilling costs, which has been part of the tax code since its inception.

And so I was exactly right. A tax deduction is a subsidy. For socialists such as Garage, the government owns everything and people have limited rights to certain things, until by whim and fiat those limited rights are taken away.

Right, the oil industry takes $4B in tax deductions, which garage regards as "subsidies". His beloved green energy industry, on the other hand hand, recieves $21B annually in direct government funding and garage regards these handouts as "investments".

LOL. "expensing of intangible drilling costs" is.......I don't know? What do we call it? Mysterious! Not a subsidy though. Nope. But there is no doubt "expensing home heating costs for the poor" is socialist welfare.

garage, regardless of the merits of the deductions in question, there is a difference between a tax deduction and a subsidy. One involves the government electing to let you keep some more of your money, the other involves the government giving you some of someone else's money. You either don't understand this distinction or are willfully obfuscating the issue to score political points.

Americans use their cars more, so the pain is greater. They have, on average, a longer daily commute than all Europeans.....

And hence, our lower longevity rates. More driving and more murders is what the WHO study forgot to include, not to mention different ways we measure infant mortaltiy rates which skew longevity rates even more.

Enough with calling America an empire? Where is the empire of America? If it were an empire, then most of the world would have been conquered by it and undesirables removed from it. And with regard to the non-anger that Europeans display, professor, I think you have it confused with docile acceptance of fate. Why fight that which you cannot win? That is in essence the heart of Europe.

"I was a consul in a European country that was not yet EU (so passport still necessary) . . . Anyway, from time to time, I'd get perfectly nice people who wanted to visit the United States for a few weeks and drive to and from places that you simply can't drive to in the time they allotted. I asked my boss what to do? She just smiled -- being much more seasoned than I -- and said that Europeans all think the United States is the size of Western Europe. Let them learn, she said."

Several years ago, one of those Irish clog dancing troupes was scheduled to perform at my university in Sunny Central Texas. The show started two hours late because they had performed in El Paso the night before and waited until that morning to leave.