Pit bulls create havoc

Almost every day, I hear calls over the police scanner concerning pit bulls attacking other dogs, biting people, or pinning people inside their homes or cars.

Could it be time to ban pit bulls outright?

Yes, I realize some of 'em are supposedly friendly. I realize some are allegedly tame, and some are like members of the family.

But so many pit bulls are potential killers.

With so many other people-friendly breeds of all shapes and sizes around, what exactly is the allure of a pit bull? And why are some people so defensive -- "defiant" may be a better word -- when the potential problems surrounding pit bulls are mentioned?

I'm very much a dog lover, but I'm not so sure there's a place in society for an breed which would apparently have no problem killing any of us.

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You know what's funny? I have about 6 friends that have pit bulls and they are all nice dogs. I honestly think that the 'mean' ones we always here about become that way because of how they are raised.

-- Posted by itaintright on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:16 AM

Breed specific legistlation is a terrible idea. You are punishing responsible dog owners due to the actions of a few. One pig problem is what do you consider a "pit bull"? Many dogs potentially fall into that category. It is not a recognized breed. So when a dog is being aggrssive, it may be reported as a "pit bull" due to someone's incorrect preconcieved notion. It could be one of many different breed types. Whats next? Banning Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Mastiffs, Dobermans and other similar breeds? I certainly am not going to stand by and let legistlation take my 200+lb English Mastiff from me. Perhaps there needs to be tougher laws on irresponsible dog owners and backyard breeders. These people breed for money instead temperament and breed improvement. This can lead to aggression issues in any breed.

-- Posted by Chad O on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:34 AM

Possible future Times Gazette headline reads: City Official Attacked And Seriously Mauled By Pit Bull Dog...Breed Is Banned. Is this what it will take before anything is done or do we just keep sparing the safety of our children, elderly ect?

-- Posted by AmericanWoman on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 6:48 AM

I am not sure what scanner you are listening to...BUT I do not hear that on my scanner that runs 24-7 at my house......

-- Posted by rebelrose on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 7:25 AM

Chad O . . . the solution you mention though doesn't take care of situation until something actually happens because most of the time people don't know how the animals are being raised until something drastic happens, like a child being attacked or maul by a dog. Pit Bulls are design by nature to be good killing instruments whether they are nice or not and things happen that is out of peoples control even if they are nice. How many times have we heard the owner say that their pit bull was a beloved family pet and was sweet and always friendly but yet tried to rip apart someone and had to be put down? I really don't see why anyone would want such an ugly dog anyway and the same goes for a Rottweiler but that is my personal opinion. What is ugly to some is beautiful to others. I always prefer a yellow lab in my case.

Unfortunately though many people get a pit bull or a Rottweiler not because they are docile or peaceful but for its potential aggressive nature and anyone who disagrees with that is pretty naive.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 7:44 AM

This just ticks me off. You can not judge a breed of dog anymore that you can judge a race of people.

-- Posted by flat creek girl on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 7:55 AM

Jaxspike, I disagree completely with your last statement. I had a Red Nosed Pit Bull and I got him because his owner could no longer have him due to relocation to an apartment. This dog was the best dog I have ever had. My 2 year old son could pry this dog's eyes apart while he slept or grab his tail while he ate and the dog never bothered him. And before you or anyone else start judging me for letting my son do these things to a potentially dangerous dog, I didn't allow it. I always stopped him any time I saw him grabbing the dog. However, this dog wasn't aggressive at all. He never even growled at another dog. So not everyone gets them because of their "protective" nature. And I totally agree with Itaintright and Chad O. It's all in how you raise the dog. I can tell you that one of the most jealous and protective type of dogs I ever had were Boston Terriers. My brother was bit by one of ours and they killed 2 of our other dogs. I guess now you'll say that we should ban them as well.

-- Posted by candasons07 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 8:16 AM

I agree with Chad O and flat creek girl. I have a Rottweiler who wouldn't hurt a fly. All he will do is lick you to death, and he is great with kids. He is one of the friendliest dogs you'll ever meet, but people are automatically afraid of him because he's a Rottweiler. Yes he is chained up, because that is the law in the city and county. Maybe if more people would follow the law, things like this wouldn't happen. Alot of it is in the way they are raised, and I know this because I have raised many animals and they've all turned out to be great pets/friends. I also know people that have Pitbulls, and they are not mean or aggressive. A Toy Poodle or other small breed of dog can maul you just as bad as a PitBull. I know this to be true because I have been bit by one. So don't single out Pits, because they are not the only type of aggressive dog.

-- Posted by syd37160 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 8:18 AM

Many breeds of dogs are aggressive by nature. That's why pet owners MUST be responsible for their pets. We have a blue heeler who loves to nip the heel of everyone and everything that passes. We have to teach her and be responsible about where we keep her and who we allow to be around her.

Dogs are like kids, they do what they are taught and what they are allowed to do.

-- Posted by Jacks4me on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 8:39 AM

It is all in how you breed and raise the dog. And I think you should hold the owner responsiable instead of trying to outlaw the breed all toether.

-- Posted by MSK on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 8:44 AM

Its amazing what conclusions an uneducated mind can jump to. Here are some facts.

In a recent study of 122 dog breeds by the American Temperament Testing Society (ATTS) pits achieved a passing rate of 83.9% Thats better than Beagles at 78.2% and Golden Retrievers 83.2%

In the ATTS test, a dog is put through a series of confrontational situations. Any sign of panic or aggression leads to failure of the test. The achievement of pit bulls in this study disproves the tired belief that pit bulls are inherently aggressive.

Breed Specific Legislation has been proven to be ineffective, costly, and unconstitutional. If you want to protect yourself against a dog attack, ban irresponsible owners. Educate yourself. Understand that there is no such thing as a "mean dog breed" or a "vicious dog breed" there are only bad owners. Understand that a dog, ANY dog is an ANIMAL and should be respected as such.

-- Posted by Leslie77 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 8:46 AM

I have to agree that not all Pitbulls are mean spirited animals... To me, the one's you hear about are, just as most everyone has stated, those who are trained to fight and attack...

It is sort of like cockfighting, roosters are normally harmless animals and they don't always go around attacking other roosters, but once you train them to viciously attack then that is the result you get.

Prosecute the owners and/or gaming societies that host such despicable events in the name of greed and popularity. It is also sort of like Walking Horses.. most aren't bred to walk with such high steps, but some trainers go too far and perform illegal actions to create the phenomenon. It isn't the horses fault (as it has no control over the actions imposed on it), it is the owner/trainer! No different with Pitbulls...

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 9:42 AM

A pit bull running free viciously attacked my cat just last week. I ran outside and kicked the dog and he let go, took a few steps away and then turned towards me and stared me down for a several seconds and then walked away. A couple of weeks before that a friend and me were riding bikes and a white pit bull came up and bit my friend's ankle. A couple of months before that a friend was outside doing his work and a pit bull walked up behind him and lunged at him. My friend was carrying a bush hook and killed the dog. Pit bulls were bred for the purpose of fighting. If you own one you place yourself and others at risk.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you live in the city limits you are required to keep your dog on a leash, indoors, or behind a fence regardless of the breed. My backyard where my child plays is not your property and your dog is not welcome there. I am fed up with neighborhood dogs barking all day and all night, dog poop in my yard, knocked over trash cans, and having to worry that my child could be attacked by a vicious dog. Keep your dog on a leash or purchase a fence of some sort and keep it under control and well taken care of. Walking out on your porch and telling the dog to shut up occasionally is not giving attention to the dog. Your neighbors do not have to put up with this nonsense and I will have your dog put down.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 9:42 AM

This just ticks me off. You can not judge a breed of dog anymore that you can judge a race of people.

-- Posted by flat creek girl on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 7:55 AM

This is a silly statement.I can deduce certain features and characteristics about a race of people based on my previous experience and knowledge of that race. I could walk into a room filled with one Chinese person and 999 Egyptians and find the one Chinese person easily. Political correctness is polite, but there are certain inescapable realities to race that are not ALWAYS true, but more times than not are. We all experience the same emotions, we bleed the same color blood, we drink the same water and breathe the same air, we have the same body parts, and we can mate with each other. But we are not the same in that we have evolved slightly different characteristics over time that have been passed down from different ancestors ultimately making us all somewhat different and unique.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:00 AM

I agree Nathan . . . I have dealt with that situation with new neighbors that moved in and they also had a pit bull and it came in my yard one day when I was out and started growling at me and acted like it was about to attack and I am glad I had rake with me . . . a few whacks and it decided I wasn't worth the fight. Those people were then told to keep them locked up or the dogs would be shot. Those same people also gave me the same song and dance about how it is such a sweet dog and never hurt anyone. I am sorry; I don't want to wait until it is chewing my leg off to see if it is a breed worth having.

I don't get this mentality that I am suppose to deal with your pets or animals. I am not going to take a chance and see if your pit bull or Rottweiler is friendly.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:16 AM

The whole issue of banning pit bulls or any other breed for that matter is silly. It does not prevent attacks, all it does is lull you into a false sense of security. It does not take away the problem dogs. People that are training their dogs to be fighting dogs are not doing so within the bounds of the law, so what makes anybody think they are going to pay attention to a ban? I like a lot of people had my preconceived notions about pit bulls and their temperament until I met a good friends pit bulls. I found them to be the sweetest and most well behaved dogs I had ever met. It even prompted me to get a pit bull of my own. Oh yeah just so you know she has never bitten any people, or any of my animals for that matter cats included. All she wants to do is lie on her back and get her stomach rubbed. Real vicious right. The vicious ones are the ones that abused her before I got her...maybe we should ban humans.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:16 AM

I hate the statement "But My Dog has never bitten anybody" Well neither had the dog that grabbed the 2 year old child in the face in Manchester, 3 weeks ago. This dog was a family pet even slept with the child. Now the child is scarred for life. Amazingly enough this dog was a Pit Bull.

Own a Pit Bull if you like but keep it away from me and my yard or I can assure you I will shoot it dead.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:24 AM

Wow nathan you totally changed the point in my statement. I am not saying that you can't look at a pitbull breed and not tell that it is a pitbull. What I am saying is that to say all pits are evil and mean is no different than saying that all asians are good at math. It is a uneducated generalization.

-- Posted by flat creek girl on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:27 AM

So long as you keep your dog on your property then it is not a problem. When your dog comes over to my house, it then becomes a problem for me and will be dealt with, regardless if it is vicious or not.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:28 AM

Any owner of any breed of dog is being irresponsible if they let their dogs run wild. All dogs have big teeth that can do damage. I have an Airedale terrier that was bred to hunt and kill game. Her teeth are much larger than my pit's teeth, but neither of them are aggressive. A responsible dog owner should pay attention for any signs of their dog being aggressive, pit or otherwise. These are issues that need to be addressed by a competent dog trainer. Most of these issue occur when dogs are allowed to run out free and are not under the control of their owners. I can't say it enough, train your dog and do not let them run free. I would never open my front door and let any of my dogs just take a run.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:39 AM

Nathan, I think "flat creek girl" was trying to compare the actions of dog breeds to those of people of the races. Saying that all pitbulls are bloodhungry killers is like saying all African Americans are drugdealing, gangbanging thugs. Her statement had nothing to do with the physical appearance of any dog or race.

-- Posted by craftin_mom on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:40 AM

Wow nathan you totally changed the point in my statement. I am not saying that you can't look at a pitbull breed and not tell that it is a pitbull. What I am saying is that to say all pits are evil and mean is no different than saying that all asians are good at math. It is a uneducated generalization.

-- Posted by flat creek girl on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:27 AM

Pit bulls are predisposed to be violent. They were bred for dog fighting. Some dogs are hyper and some are lazy. Some dogs have large frames and others have small frames. Some dogs are docile and others are aggressive. The pit bull was created specifically to be aggressive, fighting dogs. This is not up for debate, it is fact. Not all pit bulls are aggressive and not all retrievers like water, but more times the opposite is true because of their ancestry.

Nathan, I think "flat creek girl" was trying to compare the actions of dog breeds to those of people of the races. Saying that all pitbulls are bloodhungry killers is like saying all African Americans are drugdealing, gangbanging thugs. Her statement had nothing to do with the physical appearance of any dog or race.

-- Posted by craftin_mom on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:40 AM

Yes, the only factor that you fail to include in the equation is that man is man and beast is beast. Man can reason and generally understands right from wrong. Dogs react and will call upon its primal instincts when it feels the urge and does not always comprehend the consequences of its actions.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:45 AM

A pit bull running free viciously attacked my cat just last week. I ran outside and kicked the dog and he let go, took a few steps away and then turned towards me and stared me down for a several seconds and then walked away.

Posted by nathan.evans

You're kidding, right? You're blaming dogs chasing cats on pit bulls?

-- Posted by Jacks4me on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:46 AM

Well we all know that if it is in Wikipedia it's true. So are you saying that since my Airedale Terrier is also bred from black and tan Terriers that she is a fighting dog? What about German Shepherds or Dobermans? Any dog and I do mean Any dog can cause a lot of damage. I recently read an article about a Chihuahua that chewed her owner's toe off. Should we ban them? How about cats, they can scratch and cause an infection you can die from? The point is that any breed of any animal can cause damage to humans, but pit bulls are this years favorite dog to pick on. It is all about proper training an control. I mean just think about a pit bull as a rescue dog (yes they are rescue dogs) not being allowed into a city because of a ban and your family member dies. Is that fair? Pit bulls are therapy and rescue dogs. It all comes down to training.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:53 AM

You're kidding, right? You're blaming dogs chasing cats on pit bulls?

-- Posted by Jacks4me on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:46

This dog didn't just attack the cat, it locked on and did not let go for at least a minute. I blame irresponsible owners for allowing their dog to roam the streets of Wartrace unchecked. Pit bulls should not be banned, but this particular type of dog has characteristics that make it more dangerous than others and novice owners should not be allowed to own them.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:58 AM

Well we all know that if it is in Wikipedia it's true. So are you saying that since my Airedale Terrier is also bred from black and tan Terriers that she is a fighting dog? What about German Shepherds or Dobermans? Any dog and I do mean Any dog can cause a lot of damage. I recently read an article about a Chihuahua that chewed her owner's toe off. Should we ban them? How about cats, they can scratch and cause an infection you can die from? The point is that any breed of any animal can cause damage to humans, but pit bulls are this years favorite dog to pick on. It is all about proper training an control. I mean just think about a pit bull as a rescue dog (yes they are rescue dogs) not being allowed into a city because of a ban and your family member dies. Is that fair? Pit bulls are therapy and rescue dogs. It all comes down to training.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:53 AM

I guess then I would have to support regulation of certain house pets on a local level thus making pet ownership a privilege. I have been against this in the past, but there really are too many people not doing right by their pets.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:02 AM

Well we all know that if it is in Wikipedia it's true.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:53 AM

And yes, the nature of Wikipedia, in that anyone can contest an article or section of an article if they feel that is unfair or not accurate, means that the information you get from it is almost always true.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:06 AM

Any breed has the POTENTIAL to kill or be vicious. I cannot understand people who continually blame the breed of dog and not the humans that abuse these wonderful breeds. Please can you explain to me how you possbibly think banning a breed will help. Yes, something has to be done. So called owners of any breed that allows their dogs to be abused, fight, or train them to be vicious need to be banned. People should be banned straight to prison. yes, people get defensive or "defiant" as you stated, when an "potential problems surround pitbulls are mentioned" is because most of those comments are from ignorant people who want to ban the breed and have no clue about the breed and are acting on fear. Do you relize that most dog bites per year are NOT from bully breeds. The reason you hear so much about any attacks by bully breeds is besause of the hysteria the press has created. If you listen to a police scanner and hear numerous calls about "pit bull attacks" you must live in an area where this breed is being abused. Instead of spending your energy critizing the breed, work harder to get laws passed that will get rid of these so called humans that are abusing dogs and raising them to be vicious. Please get more educated about the breed. I have a feelilng you will see the idea of banning a breed is absolutley not the answer.

-- Posted by alionberger on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:08 AM

Hey jaxspike

did you know most dog attacks in the US are from labs not bully breeds???? Even though this is the case, labs should not be banned. No breed should be banned. Please get more education about bully breeds.

-- Posted by alionberger on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:15 AM

Hi, nathan.evans

I would like to see the factual info you allude to in your post

"Pit bulls are predisposed to be violent. They were bred for dog fighting. Some dogs are hyper and some are lazy. The pit bull was created specifically to be aggressive, fighting dogs. This is not up for debate, it is fact. Not all pit bulls are aggressive and not all retrievers like water, but more times the opposite is true because of their ancestry" You state it is a fact, so I am sure there is research etc to back up these facts...

-- Posted by alionberger on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:20 AM

All new dog owners need to be educated about their dogs, no matter if it is a pit bull or a Heinz 57. All breeds have unique characteristics. We have way too many folks that get puppies and put them in the yard and when grown dump them the if it's a female, her puppies out in the country. I know, since all but 2 of mine were dump jobs. People need to be responsible owners no matter what type of dog it is.

I have a pomeranian now (dump job)that's very sweet and loves everyone, but even he attempted to bite the vet a couple weeks ago. Any dog that has teeth can and will bite if provoked.

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:26 AM

Pits were breed to be a fighting dog, but also was the Rat Terrier. The Rat Terrier was breed to kill rats, hence it's name. It's a cute little dog, but requires a lot of care due to its breeding. Banning specific breeds is just not the answer, responsible ownership is.

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:30 AM

I don't think anyone here is in support of banning any breed. Many of us are only pointing out that pit bulls have been involved in real situations that we have been a party to or witnessed. This year I have had only one other dog act aggressively towards me and it was protecting its young. Yet the other attacks I know of or witnessed all involved pit bulls. Is this a coincidence?

I posted a link to the history of pit bulls. It is accurate and factual.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:31 AM

Banning specific breeds is just not the answer, responsible ownership is.

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:30 AM

Exactly!

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:33 AM

the temperment of the dog is based on how he/she is raised, treated and genetic makeup.

We have a pit bull across the street from us. He is a big baby.

I think like any dog he would defend his territory, not becasue he is a specific breed because he is a dog.

-- Posted by 4fabfelines on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:40 AM

It really comes down to people in this country not wanting to be responsible for what their dogs do. No one wants to step forward and say that they saw aggressive tendencies in their dog, but they ignored them. I am sure that this is the reason why all of these dogs that attack are painted like they were the sweetest thing that ever lived. We need to be responsible to and for our animals. Each attack by any dog needs to be viewed individually. It is very important to find out why it happened. What was the dog doing, how as it trained, was it allowed to run loose? I am very responsible with my dogs. I walk through my yard at least weekly just to check and see if they can get out, they never have. I make sure they have what they need to be safe. Most people don't think about how their dogs can dig, or jump.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:45 AM

A dog has be trained to fight...I am not sure all of the info on Wikipedia is that factual..I would need more time to research...but even on that site the dogs were bred b/c of characteristics that were beneficial to fighting...they still had to be trained....even the wilkipedia site states the dogs should be "Trained" to listen to their owners and not attack randomly...

Dog fighting, which could be carried out under clandestine measures, blossomed. Since Bulldogs proved too ponderous and uninterested in dog fighting, the Bulldogs were crossed with English White and Black and Tan Terriers. They were also bred to be intelligent and level-headed during fights and remain non-aggressive toward their handlers. Part of the standard for organized dog-fighting required that the match referee who is unacquainted with the dog be able to enter the ring, pick up a dog while it was engaged in a fight, and get the respective owner to carry it out of the ring without being bitten. Dogs that bit the referee were culled.

so it goes back to people not breed....I have been around dogs and "pit bull" types and never been attacked or seen anyone else attacked...so is this coincidence? does this mean I can say pit bulls attack less b/c I have not directly been involved or seen an attack??? of course not

-- Posted by alionberger on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:45 AM

By compiling US and Canadian press accounts between 1982 and 2007, Animal People News determined the types of breeds most responsible for death and serious injury.

Also it states that "Pit bulls attack adults nearly as often as they attack children, a characteristic not found in any other breed. They also attack without warning. The victim of a pit bull attack may have little or no opportunity to read the warning signals that would avert an attack from a different breed."

I think these numbers speak for themselves.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:46 AM

Makes one wonder, why Sarah Palin would like to call herself a pitbull... but with lipstick. Hmm.. Is she born and bred to kill, or is she a special breed?

-- Posted by Disturbia on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:48 AM

A silly statement huh

? By assuming all pit bull breeds are agressive is just as uneductated and sterotypical as saying all Asian people are good at math.

The issue is the breeders and owners. If you live in the city limits your dog should be confined whether it is a pitbull or a poodle. Any animal that feels he is being threatened can and should defend itself. It is our responsibility as owners to not put our pets in these situations.

-- Posted by flat creek girl on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:50 AM

Looking at your numbers Jaxspike there are some questions that I have. 1st where did these numbers come from? Just saying they came from animal people news is not enough. Secondly what breeds are considered "pit bull." Also where did the press get their info. Was the breed of the animal confirmed after the attack, or was the injured party's word taken. Statistics can be twisted in many different ways. Someone could get attacked by a tan mixed dog and say it was a pit bull just because they heard about it in the news. Another issue is were these dogs trained? Were they running loose or was their owner in control of them? What was the circumstances? Nathan.Evans stated that a dog attacked while protecting its young? Should this be counted in those statistics? How about when a dog attacks an intruder or someone wishing to do harm to their owner? Is that acceptable?

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:03 PM

Unfortunately you dont know what an owner or breeder is teaching a dog until after they hurt or kill someone. As my numbers prove above, Pit Bulls and Rottweilers are the most deadly and outweigh all the others.

As the old saying goes, I would rather be safe than sorry. A human's life is always more important that a dog.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:09 PM

Yes dbvanga2 . . you can twist it to suit your opinion too.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:10 PM

A silly statement huh

? By assuming all pit bull breeds are agressive is just as uneductated and sterotypical as saying all Asian people are good at math.

-- Posted by flat creek girl on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 11:50 AM

Please show me where I used the word ALL. The fact remains that pits were bred using dogs that display aggressive characteristics. If the breeders wanted a lazy dog then they would have bred them using basset hounds. I did not say that all pits were aggressive and in fact I also made it a point to specifically mention that all do not fall into this category. Your original statement about judging dogs versus judging humans was incorrect in my opinion and I pointed out why. Disagree if you like, I could really care less.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:12 PM

ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent newspaper providing original investigative coverage of animal protection worldwide. With thousands of items on hand, the ANIMAL PEOPLE website is one of the largest repository of articles on animal issues on the Internet, and all topics that affect animals are covered. Founded in 1992, ANIMAL PEOPLE has no alignment or affiliation with any other entity.

They usually are for the protect of any and all animals . . . I doubt they would do those stats to prove that Pit Bulls need to be eliminated because that would be against their cause I would think.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:14 PM

Yes a human's life is always more important than a dogs, but I too am curious to see how factual some of these numbers are. I was instructed from a very young age not to trust ANY dog no matter what its size or temperment is and I am a big dog lover. As I said before, any dog with teeth can bite, and most dogs have teeth.

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:15 PM

I do agree with you dbvang2 that the numbers must be highly detailed if we are to draw accurate conclusions from them. Understanding the circumstances behind the attacks is important. There is however one conclusion that can successfully be drawn from the numbers that jax has posted and that is that the specific breeds listed are aggressive dogs that should not be allowed to run free and should not be owned by owners that cannot properly contain, control, and care for them.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:18 PM

I also meant write that their article states that "this chart covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others with evident expertise, who have been kept as pets. Due to the exclusion of dogs whose breed type may be uncertain, this is by no means a complete list of fatal and otherwise serious dog attacks. Attacks by police dogs, guard dogs, and dogs trained specifically to fight are also excluded."

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:19 PM

So who is right? Can you tell me for certain that everyone of those dogs counted in the pit bull category is a pit bull, for that matter what exactly is a pit bull? It is not a recognized breed of dog. You can kill dogs, cats, and any other animal you would like, but it will never solve the problem of people being stupid. Hey a car can kill or maim, how about a gun? People who have trees fall on them die. Should we ban all of that stuff too?

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:22 PM

I too was instructed from a young age how to approach animals, and I never had dogs until I was an adult. The whole point of this whole thing is yes any dog can cause damage, and owning a dog requires a certain amount of responsibility. I trained my dog from the second I got her as a puppy that biting was not acceptable. It took time, yes, but I did not want her to hurt anyone including myself. She has never ever bitten anyone. I also got a shelter dog who was older, and if I thought there was even the tiniest bit of aggression in her, it would be dealt with through training. Neither of them are ever allowed to be outside their fence without a leash on them. So should I be penalized because one of them is a pit mix?

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:28 PM

So should I be penalized because one of them is a pit mix?

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:28 PM

Of course not. What you do on your land is your business. You are a responsible owner and I also appreciate your debating style. I do have to take exception with your cars and guns argument because people are usually the cause when guns and cars are involved whether it be improper training, poor maintenance or negligence. It is also possible also that a new tire can explode and cause an accident through no fault of the owner. This would be an act of God which would also cover your tree example and for which there is no protection. If you own a dog and that dog kills your child unprovoked then that would have to be an act of God. If you own a dog and it kills my child in my yard that is owner negligence.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 12:39 PM

The problem with a lot of the laws that they are enacting is that responsible owners, like myself, are being penalized. I am the person that is going to want to keep my dog legal through licensing and whatever the law states. The problem is that these laws do not target those that aren't responsible and law abiding. If you are training your dog to fight, which is illegal, why would you care that it is illegal to have a pit bull in the first place?

Honestly I am saddened every time I hear about one of these dogs causing injury. I wonder about what their life has been, and why it happened. These people that refuse to be responsible owners are putting a whole breed of wonderful dogs at risk.

While we would love to dispute every angle of that kind of erroneous comment, we don't need to. We can easily disprove the misguided notion that some kind of genetic abnormality is what causes dogs to attack, by simply looking at the actual dogs involved in serious biting incidents.

The Lab/Beagle cross and the purebred Doberman involved in biting incidents 5,000 km and 10 years apart do not share relevant genes, other than those that make them both dogs. The purebred Dalmation that killed another dog and the Golden Retriever that killed a child are not genetically related, either. In fact, even the purebred Rottweiler that killed a child in one province and the purebred Rottweiler that attacked a person in another province share no common ancestors in their pedigrees. In short, the dogs involved in biting incidents are no more closely related than dogs in general.

There is no scientific evidence for a genetic cause for aggression, and there is no evidence that the dogs involved in attacks share relevant genetic information, even if there were.

The largest study of its kind, in which many of the dogs involved dog bite-related fatalities were examined by veterinarians, found that the dogs who'd killed people had no physical, mental or physiological abnormalities. All tests came back normal, including bloodwork and brain examination.

Suzanne Clothier, author of "If A Dog's Prayers Were Answered Bones Would Rain from the Sky: Deepening Our Relationships with Dogs" (Warner Books, New York, NY, 2002), says "Some dog parks not only don't welcome them ('pit bulls') -- they're not even allowed -- and that's wrong. You have a dog who can be an ambassador for all 'pit bulls'."

-- Posted by alionberger on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 1:08 PM

I like this quote from the website alionberger gave us:

The most important factor in preventing dog bites is proper supervision, and is the responsibility of the dog's guardian. No matter how inappropriate a stranger's intentions may be towards one's dog, if the owner is supervising, nothing bad will happen. The owner can protect the dog from the misconduct of others, while ensuring his/her dog's behaviour is directed accordingly.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 1:14 PM

Well then, the next time I see the pitbull that attacked my cat unprovoked in my back yard with my 5 year old daughter I will remember what the fine folks at goodpooch.com said and rest easy.

8-)

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 1:19 PM

Nathan,

It goes back to what we have all said, that dog has an irresponsible owner. Dogs and cats typically just don't like each other, I know mine don't. I also know when I let my Fox Hound out of it's pen, I need to make sure the cats are in the house. He a very sweet dog, but he does not like cats, and I don't trust him around cats. He and my Heinz 57 killed a possium once, very quickly, so I don't want to find our what they would do to my cats. Again it goes back to being responsible owners, and it sounds like your neighbor is not be responsible.

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 1:28 PM

I am really sorry about that, that should never happen, and it is really upsetting that someone would let their dog out like that. I have 3 cats as well as the dogs and I would be horrified if something happened to them. Even though I have dogs and would be considered a dog person I am sure, I would still not expect a strange dog to be in my yard. In fact I have told neighbors whose dogs I have seen running unsupervised that it is really unacceptable and unsafe for both the dogs and others. When bring a new animal into the house we are very careful to see how they will react to the others. Oddly enough the pit has no problem with the cats and the bird.

Anyway I guess the whole point is that all dogs should be contained and supervised. Owners not animals need to be held accountable. While there is no laws where I live pertaining to specific dog breeds there are vicious dog laws, and if they are truly enforced I can guarantee there would be very few bites.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 1:30 PM

Nathan Evans,

not sure what you meant by your last comment.

But I hope you do remember the info on the website so these myths will stop being passed on as fact.

It is all about responsible owners and if more of the irresponsible owners were punished it would be less likely a "pit bull" would be in your backyard attacking your cat "unprovoked".

-- Posted by alionberger on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 1:36 PM

All I am asking of everyone here is to really think about this. Think about what a breed ban means, think about what legislation directed at only one breed means. Does it stop all dog bites? Does it address all dogs that are aggressive? Or is it just more posturing intending to make you feel safe, but not really doing anything? Most cities and towns already have laws pertaining to aggressive dogs. They are very straight forward. A lot of places also have licensing requirements for all dogs. Way back when I had a lizard and I was made to prove I knew how to take care of it. I had to provide details on cage conditions, and veterinary care as well as its eating habits. This would be a more worthwhile than breed restrictions.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 1:53 PM

A recent issue of TV Guide described how a rescue group rehabilitated the survivors of the Michael Vicks' tragedy.

Apparently,they utilized techniques similar to those employed by the government when they ready law enforcement dogs,intelligence agency dogs (and dogs confiscated from criminals) into civilian life.

Would a law enforcement official bring an animal bred and trained to kill into their home if they weren't confident that the creature would be a safe addition to the family?

Any animal can cause unintentional harm or act in a deadly manner without regard for the consequences.

A non-human beast can be mentally damaged or have a destructive upbringing just as a human might.

Different parts of creation have different inherent risk factors.

Peanuts or horses,radium or hemp,pitbulls or mercury,fire or water-each can be dangerous and each can make a positive contribution.

We can adopt a spirit of fear and start rejecting anything with the potential for causing harm,we can blithely assume that nothing and no one in our lives will ever have a negative effect or we can be aware of all the possibilities,take reasonable precautions and accept responsibility for what could occur based on our choices.

Some animals have come from a background that makes it miraculous if they don't hurt anyone.

Some of those animals are "macho" dog breeds or exotics such as the big cats.

Some are humans.

All we can do about anything in our surroundings is expect the best,prepare for the worst (ideally,before it occurs) and use common sense,lovingkindness and personal responsibility in dealing with whatever we face.

That's not easy but it's preferable to viewing life as a disater waiting to happen or hoping that ignoring a problem will keep trouble away.

Nathan be as it may that you do not agree with me, I have just as much right as you do to share my opinion

-- Posted by flat creek girl on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 2:22 PM

I don't think Pit Bulls should be banned even though they are not my dog of choice. I have had Dobermans and Great Danes that were wonderful dogs.My Great Dane went over 200 lbs and could put my entire head in his mouth if he chose to do so. The Difference here is My Great Dane stayed in My yard or my house. People allow their Pit Bulls and other large dogs to roam the neighborhood. When you call Animal Control by the time they get there the dog is nowhere to be found. I have even had them tell me to catch the dog and tie it up and they will come get it..well sorry but that ain't happening. I have no intention of catching a Pit Bull and trying to tie it up.

BUT you are right any dog can bite you just like any cat can scratch you. It also stands to reason that a large dog (ie: Pit Bulls, Great Danes, Rotties, Dobermans) will do much more damage to you than say a Shih Tzu or Pom or any other small breed animal. I am sure if a Shih Tzu was attacking me I could get away from it much easier than I could a Pit Bull.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 2:45 PM

It all just comes back to owner responsibility. I am ashamed to say that I was afraid of pits before I met my friend's dogs, and quite honestly that didn't go away until I adopted my own and worked with her. I can honestly say now that my next dog will be a pit. I have found her to be the most loving and loyal dog I have ever met, hands down. From the moment I got her all she wanted to do was lick my face. She will let you hug her and hold, which is very unusual for any dog. Oh yeah did I mention this dog was abused. She has a scar from a knife on her leg and several "fighting" scars on her head. She is fine with new people, new animals, and pretty much anything we throw at her. Of course I am always with her, as I am with all my dogs.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 2:54 PM

SPOKEN BY EXPERTS >>>>>>

1. American Canine Foundation - "Breed bans are unconstitutional and based on flawed and erroneous data which has caused lawsuits to be filed against several cities in the United States.

2. American Dog Owners Association - "The American Dog Owners Association opposes legislation that discriminates against specific breeds or phenotype classes of dogs or creates restrictions that in fact make a law breed

4. American Humane Association - "American Humane Association supports local legislation that protects communities from dangerous animals, but does not advocate laws that target specific breeds of dogs."

5. American Kennel Club - "Strongly opposes any legislation that determines a dog to be "dangerous" based on specific breed or phenotypic classes of dogs."

6. American Veterinary Medical Association Position Statement - "The AVMA supports dangerous animal legislation by state, county, or municipal government provided that legislation does not refer to specific breeds or classes of animals." "Dog bite statistics are not really statistics, and they do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite," warns a report from the American Veterinary Medical Association. "Invariably the numbers will show that dogs from popular, large breeds are a problem."

Interactions - "Dog bite statistics are not really statistics, and they do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite." "Concerns about "dangerous" dogs have caused many local governments to consider supplementing existing animal control laws with ordinances directed toward control of specific breeds or types of dogs. Members of the Task Force believe such ordinances are inappropriate and ineffective." Their model legislation includes this statement: "A dog's breed shall not be considered in determining whether or not it is 'dangerous.'" In reference to the A.V.M.A. Report from the Task Force suggestions for a community approach to dog bite prevention, one of its authors, Dr. Gail Golab, stated: "It is frustrating for me personally because people who want to enact Breed Specific Legislation keep using the report to try and make a case against pit bulls. The whole point of our summary was to explain you can't do that."

8. American Working Dog Federation - "The A.W.D.F. strongly opposes breed specific legislation." "The A.W.D.F. believes that a dangerous dog should be defined by its actions rather than phenotype."

9. American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals -- "The A.S.P.C.A seeks effective enforcement of breed-neutral laws that hold dog owners accountable for their animals' actions."

10. American Temperament Test Society - We have tested somewhere around a thousand pit-bull-type dogs," says Carl Herkstroeter, B.S. in Chemical Engineering; President/founder of and evaluator for American Temperament Test Society, says. "I've tested half of them. And of the number I've tested I have disqualified one pit bull because of aggressive tendencies. They have done extremely well. They have a good temperament. They are very good with children."

11. Association of Pet dog Trainers - The A.P.D.T. opposes any law that deems a dog as dangerous or vicious based on appearance, breed or phenotype. Canine temperaments are widely varied, and behavior cannot be predicted by physical features such as head shape, coat length, muscle to bone ratio, etc. The only predictor of behavior is behavior.

12. Endangered Breeds Association - "The E.B.A. is opposed to legislation that unfairly singles out a breed(s) or type(s) of dog. Enforced non-breed specific legislation has been shown, over time, to be more effective and cost efficient."

13. Humane Society of the United States - "H.S.U.S. opposes breed specific regulations because they do not address the underlying issues of owner behavior and responsibility."

14. International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants "(I.A.A.B.C.) is an organization representing professional animal trainers and animal behavior specialists. The I.A.A.B.C. strongly opposes any legislation specifically

designed to target or discriminate against dogs based solely on their breed or appearance.

15. International Association of Canine Professionals - "I.A.C.P. strongly opposes legislation which discriminates against dogs and their owners by labeling certain dogs as "dangerous" or "vicious" based on breed or phenotype. Breed-specific legislation does not protect communities nor create a more responsible dog owner. Instead it negatively

affects many law abiding dog owners and dogs within the targeted breeds."

16. National Animal Control Association (N.A.C.A) - "Dangerous and/or vicious animals should be labeled as such as a result of their actions or behavior and not because of their breed."

17. National Animal Interest Alliance (N.A.I.A.)- "Bans against specific breeds produce relinquishment and euthanasia of well-behaved pets of the targeted breeds, while irresponsible and criminal pet owners just switch to new

breeds and continue abusing their dogs. . . . unreasonable, unenforceable animal control laws erode community support for animal control. NAIA supports reasonable laws to protect the public from dangerous dogs and opposes breed-specific

legislation in any form. Breed-specific laws target good dogs and responsible animal owners along with the bad."

18. National Association of Dog Obedience Instructors, Inc. - "N.A.D.O.I. strongly opposes breed specific legislation which targets or discriminates against certain dogs based only on their breed or appearance. Such laws are

unfair because they assume that a dog may be dangerous simply because of breed. In fact, it is almost always the behavior of the owners of these dogs which makes them a danger to others."

19. National Canine Research Council - "Breed is never the sole determining factor in a severe or fatal dog attack. Each attack is a unique and arises out of a combination of past and present events, inherited and learned behaviors,

20. National Geographic Bite Force Competition between the Pitbull Rottweiler, and German Shepherd to see which has the most bite force. It's turns out to not even be close, but a massacre. The Rottweiler destroys his 2 opponents

in bite force. Logging a bite force of 328 pounds, The highest bite force ever recorded from a domestic dog. While the German Shepherd comes in second with a bite force of 238 pounds, and the pitbull comes in third with a bite force of 235 pounds. Actual competition can be seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7jhrxy0HKs

21. United Kennel Club - The U.K.C. opposes breed specific legislation which targets or discriminates against certain dogs because of their breed or appearance.

Neurobiology and Behavior, Psychiatry Department - Penn Med Translation Research Laboratory, Philadelphia, PA, USA - "To outlaw some breeds, especially in the absence of the needed information . . .would not make us safer, and the illusion that it would is a dangerous one." "Breed Specific Legislation is an inappropriate response to inappropriate

owner behavior."

23. A. Vezzoni A., R. Marchesini - "Aggression is a normal behavior trait in the dog (Overall, 2001). It is only when this normal behavior becomes excessive or uncontrolled that the dog may become a danger (Dehasse, 2002). The

behavior that a dog will exhibit results from a complex interaction of a number of factors such as genetic inheritance, conditioning and training, environmental factors and hormonal status. Aggression cannot therefore be related only to breed, and aggressive examples of all breed types can occur." Circolare, 2000, FVE/00/039)

Citizenship and American Temperament Test Society - "Variability in behaviour has a wider range within a breed than between breeds. Within the discipline of psychobiology and animal behaviour there is no data from empirically supported studies, published in referenced scientific literature, to support the idea that one breed of dog is `vicious.' The adult

behaviour of a domestic dog is determined overwhelmingly by its experiential history, environmental management and training."

29. Testimony from Standing Committee on amendments to the Dog Owners Liability Act. 2005 - "There is no scientific proof that genetics cause a breed of dog to be aggressive, vicious or dangerous."

30. Breed specific legislation: Considerations for evaluating its effectiveness and recommendations for alternatives - "Studies on the ontogeny of aggression in dogs indicate that a more realistic approach to the reduction of dog bites is through the adoption of alternative strategies. The most valuable of these include educating dog owners regarding the importance of a) not breeding from aggressive individuals; b) socializing young puppies; c) providing adult

31. Kellie Snider, Board Certified Associate Behavior Analyst , Co-developer of the Constructional Aggression Treatment for Dogs - "Among the reasons given for legislating breed restrictions and bans in communities is the belief that genes dictate behavior. This is a mistake. . . . Pit bulls that learn that aggression works are learning just what other

breeds of dogs learn under the same sets of circumstances. If pit bulls are going to be banned because of genetic tendencies, we have to ban all dogs. We need to also ban parrots. And cats. We need to ban humans, too, come to think of it. Maybe humans most of all. Pit bulls are only doing what every other organism does. They do what works. "

32. Dr Irene Stur, D.V.M. - Regarding the Question of Particular Aggressiveness of Dogs Based on Affiliation with Certain Breeds: "A study from Great Britain (Klaasen et al., 1996) shows that the definition of certain breeds as 'especially dangerous' does not lead to a better protection of the public . . . The authors conclude that the 'Dangerous Dog Act' contributed little in view of better security of the public from dog attacks."

33. Dr. Cornelia Wagner, D.V.M., University of Wisconsin in Madison - "Blaming the genetic make-up of the dog is wrong. Environmental and learning effects are always stronger than genetic influence. It's scientifically impossible to determine which breed will bite."

34. Jeffrey Satinover, MD, Psychiatrist with degrees from MIT, Harvard, the University of Texas and Yale - There is essentially no dimension of behavior which is not both environmentally and genetically influenced. Genes and environment interact in extraordinarily complex ways with each other, as well as among themselves to produce a final result; the environmental influences are multi-factorial and affect each other . . . In other words heritability of (or genetic influence on) a trait does not mean that the trait itself is genetically determined. This elementary fact of behavioral genetics is rarely explained and it seems counterintuitive to most people.

35. Dr. Carmen Battaglia, Masters and Doctorate from Florida State University), researcher, lecturer and author of several different books on dog breeding, worldwide recognition for the program he developed for breeding better dogs - "Most researchers agree that among all species, a lack of adequate socialization generally results in unacceptable behavior and often times produces undesirable aggression, excessiveness, fearfulness, sexual inadequacy, and indifference toward partners." - In Developing High Achievers (Originally published as "Early Neurological

Stimulation")

36. Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin, Ph.D. -- Senior Research Scientist with the Savanna River Ecology Laboratory; University of South Carolina Professor: Expert in behavior, training, and handling of pit bull terriers and their anatomy - "The studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure, and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any other breed of dog of comparable size and build. Further there is no evidence for the existence of any kind of 'locking mechanism' unique to the structure of the jaws and/or teeth of pit bulls."

37. Dr. Howard Evans, Professor Emeritus, College of Veterinary Medicine at Cornell University, Ithaca New York, author of the textbook, Anatomy of the Dog, (the world's definitive work on the anatomy of the dog) - "I have spoken with Dr. Sandy deLahunta, the foremost dog neurologist in the country, and Dr. Katherine Houpt, a leading dog behaviorist, about a jaw locking mechanism in pit bulls or any other dog and they both say, as do I, that there is no such thing as "jaw

Tierarzil, Wschr 108 (3),94-101, environmental and learning effects are always stronger than genetic influence. Although certain dog breeds such as the Rottweiler and American Pit Bull Terrier have the reputation of having stronger jaws than other breeds, valuable scientific studies showing significant differences in jaw strength among breeds does not exist. In

summary, the classification of dog breeds with respect to their relative danger to humans makes no sense, as both the complex antecedent conditions in which aggressive behavior occurs, and its ramifying consequences in the individual

dog's ecological and social environment are not considered."

39. Dr. Leslie Cooper of the University California, Davis Veterinary School - "Dogs can attack people for a number of reasons, but trying to determine the actual cause amounts to little more than guesswork. Pack behavior, prey

instinct and territorial defense can all provide the impetus for attacks . . . . Identifying that impetus is difficult. It's sad because in most cases ... dogs (in general) are quite nice under most circumstances. All we know for sure is that

something comes together to create the right environment for the dogs to attack."

40. Karen Delise, Author of Fatal Dog Attacks - "In reviewing and studying over 448 cases of fatal dog attacks in the United States, it is apparent that the three most critical factors that contribute to a fatal dog attack are: function of the dog, owner responsibility, and reproductive status of the dog. There is no documented case where a single, neutered,

"To state that a breed of dog is aggressive is scientifically impossible. Statistics do not support such a finding. Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years and within all breeds there can be dangerous dogs because of owner issues such as training the dog to attack, lack of training and socialization."

"It's ludicrous to lay claim that an entire breed is vicious, the American Pit Bull Terrier breed is not vicious, within the breed

there can be vicious dogs, just like with all other breeds."

43. Turid Rugaas, Renowned Trainer and Author - "When things go wrong, it is not because the dog is wrong, it is because of the people who deal with them...I have never met a dangerous dog breed, but I have met many dangerous dog

44. Caesar Milan, Dog Trainer and Star of the popular television series, "The Dog Whisperer," - "There are no killer dogs! Dogs are not born killers nor do they choose to be killers. What we are seeing in the news with the recent rash

of canine violence is the tragic outcome of humans who own dogs but do not know how to properly fulfill the needs of man's best friend."

45. Supreme Court of New York - "Scientific evidence more definitive than articles discussing the dogs' breeding history is necessary before it is established that pit bulls, merely by virtue of their genetic inheritance are inherently vicious

or unsuited for domestic living."

46. Supreme Court of Ohio: "Extensive, competent and credible evidence was presented by these experts which showed many of the beliefs and "myths" about pit bulls to be simply untrue and unsupported by now accepted scientific,genetic, medical, or canine behavi or principles. When discussing pit bull characteristics, much of the testimony by appellee's four witnesses related to pit bulls which have been trained to fight and be aggressive. Appellant's experts and

witnesses, on the other hand, testified generally about the breed as a whole. They emphasized that the greater population

of pit bulls in the United States are not used for pit fighting, but are well-trained, obedient dogs used in competitions and as family pets. The trial court noted that all the animal behaviorists from both parties testified that a pit bull, trained and properly socialized like other dogs, would not exhibit any more dangerous characteristics than any other breed of dog.

After considering all the evidence before it, the trial court agreed, finding that pit bulls, as a breed, are not more dangerous than other breeds." (T.M.C. §505.14(a))

47. A five year study published in the Cincinnati Law Review in 1982, vol. 53, pg. 1077, which specifically looked at "pit bulls," and concluded in part: ". . . statistics did not support the assertion that any one breed was dangerous,..when legislation is focused on the type of dog it fails, because it is ... unenforceable, confusing, and costly . . . focusing legislation on dogs that are "vicious" distracts attention from the real problem, which is irresponsible owners."

48. Another study, the Mechanical Advantage of the Pit Bull Jaw, published in the prestigious Bulletin of the South Carolina Academy of Science, Vol. LI, 1989 concludes: ". . . I have found no evidence of mechanical advantage

in the jaw of the Pit Bull as compared to other breeds of domestic dogs."

occurrence of aggressive behavior in inappropriate situations were found when comparing golden retrievers and 6 dog

breeds affected by legislation. Therefore, assuming that certain dog breeds are especially dangerous and imposing controls on them cannot be ethologically justified. Consequently, legislation in Lower Saxony was changed, and breed lists were withdrawn . . . . the emphasis for preventing biting accidents should be consideration of the emotions in the dog and

the effect of eliciting stimuli rather than affiliation with particular breeds. It furthermore shows that more emphasis has to be

put on educating breeders and owner as well as on preventing than on solving behavior problems.

study included the breeds usually included in breed specific legislation) -- in the temperament test, 95% showed behaviors that were appropriate to the particular situation. Therefore, the temperament test did not suggest particular dangerousness of these dogs with regard to their behavior toward people. Furthermore, no significant difference between the breeds and

type concerning exceptional aggressive signaling or aggressive behavior in inappropriate situations could be found. For this reason, breed classification that prohibits keeping and breeding one category of dogs as a matter of principle and allows dogs in other categories . . . .cannot be justified.

51. Yet another study, Breed differences in canine aggression, Deborah L. Duffy, Yuying Hsub, James A. Serpell, found that "The substantial within-breed variation in C-BARQ scores observed in this study suggests that it is inappropriate

to make predictions about a given dog's propensity for aggressive behavior based solely on its breed. . . .Genetic and environmental factors are likely to interact to mediate the expression of aggressive behavior during development. . . .Differences between lines of distinct breeding stock indicate that the propensity toward aggressive behavior is at least

partially rooted in genetics, although substantial within-breed variation suggests that other factors (developmental, environmental) play a major part in determining whether aggressive behavior is expressed in the phenotype.

Relevant Quotes Regarding Dog aggression:

52. K. De Munnynck, W. Van de Voorde - "Over 1 million dog bites occur every year in the USA, however, fatal dog bites are rare and mostly affect children under 4 years of age and old people." Forensic approach of fatal dog attacks: a case report and literature review, International Journal of Legal Medicine, Volume 116, Number 5 / October, 2002

53. A. L. Podberscek BVSc, PhD, Animal Welfare and Human-Animal Interactions Group, Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine, University of Cambridge, and J. A. Serpell BSc, PhD, Department of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania - "Analyses of the data using unpaired t-tests revealed that the owners of high aggression dogs were significantly more likely to be tense (P<0001), emotionally less stable (P<001),

In my opinion, it is all in how they are raised. My aunt had a chow that was vicious. He would only allow my aunt to pet her. I had been snipped at plenty of times. Boy was I glad to see that dog pass. Now my sister and her husband have 2 85 pound pit bulls in the house that have never harmed anybody, not even a stranger. One of them was rescued from a lady in Cookeville that takes in abused pit bulls. Me personally, no matter how friendly the dog, I am terrified of German Shephards.

-- Posted by hatz on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 3:54 PM

I have a Chihuahua that will bark and snap at anyone she doesn't like. Actually she pushes the pit bull around. It's kind of funny to see. If pit bulls were really all viscous she would be eaten!

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 4:08 PM

I believe that the percentage of dog bites from labs is probably a direct correlation to the fact that it's one of the mostly widely owned breed of dogs in the US. If there are more of them than pit bulls (or any other breed), of course that would likely yield a higher percentage of bites.

A more accurate account would be to determine the percent of dogs within each individual breed who have attacked. Like, 5 out of every 100 poodles, etc.

And while I know a lot of people love their pit bulls and swear they're just big babies (and I believe that some of them are), there is a reason that you never hear of a pit bull names Fluffy or Snookums.

-- Posted by Nobody'sFool on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, at 6:30 PM

I once owned two Dobermans. Before I took them in as puppies, I was terrified of the breed. They were quite possibly the friendliest dogs I've ever owned.

In fact, they once defended my child from an attack by the neighbor's Chow. That was the only time I ever even heard them bark. They were extremely docile.

Flat Creek Girl--I am so glad you found info about pit bulls so that maybe we can put an end to all of the "preconceived" myths. And NATHAN---I read every one of your comments and not once did you mention a dog attacking a cat IN FRONT OF YOUR FIVE YEAR OLD until the comment you posted at 1:19 p.m on Monday. You are simply trying to lay your beliefs about pit bulls on everyone else and using any reason necessary to make us all believe it. Not all pit bulls are bred for fighting. Regardless of their ancestry, they are all raised DIFFERENTLY!!! Not everyone wants a dog that will bite anything that moves. And every dog has some sort of aggression in it. It's in every breed of dog's nature. You simply don't understand because you are too busy trying to make the pit bulls look like the only bad dogs. And it looks to me like you got Jaxspike to join in on your little rant. Congratulations. You both made yourselves look completely illiterate about this subject! You should be proud.

-- Posted by candasons07 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 9:00 AM

First off I want to know why you people will not let this topic drop already.These dogs are only dangerous if they are bred for ILLEGAL PURPOSES!!!! I have 7 Pit Bulls and they have never ever tried to bite or attack anyone.And to whoever it was that said one attacked their cat.Well that dog wouldn't have known it was there unless your cat had been going over on its property.You know its so sad that you all want these dogs banned in a christmas letter my daughter wrote to santa one year was that she just wanted everyone to love Pit Bulls as much as she does.These dods are the only kind of dog she is use to.And the people that are saying its the owners of these dogs are RIGHT!!!!!We breed dogs for people to have a better understanding of this wonderful breed.Did any of you people against these dogs watch the Micheal Vick thing on tv?He was the kind of dog owner these dogs did not need.But his dogs became some of the best dogs there are.And to the writer of this blog can't you find anything else to report on.I'll give you some stuff you could use GAS PRICES,DRUGS,How schools officals have gotten way out of hand,How there are hardly any jobs around here anymore.Putting these dogs down is getting really old.Just leave these poor dogs alone.They need our love not our hate.

-- Posted by Reed's Pits on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 9:19 AM

candasons07 . . . my opinion is just as valid as the next person but at least I state mine with some intelligence instead of some insane rant. I like to think I am fairly literate since I went to college and maintained a 3.74 GPA. Considering only 11.1% of Bedford County has a bachelor's degree or higher, I figure I am a step or two above the curve here.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 10:07 AM

candasons07 . . . my opinion is just as valid as the next person but at least I state mine with some intelligence instead of some insane rant. I like to think I am fairly literate since I went to college and maintained a 3.74 GPA. Considering only 11.1% of the Bedford County population has a bachelor's degree or higher, I figure I am a step or two above the curve here.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 10:09 AM

Mr Melson (I want you to respond to this)have you done any research on Pit Bulls? Sounds like you have not! There are many sites on the web you can go to and research Pit Bulls like this one http://www.pitbulllovers.com/ but I bet you want go to it because you don't want to hear what they have to say.You just want to come on here and bad mouth Pit Bulls or dogs that look like Pit Bulls.I have been breeding Pit Bulls for 7 years,and have an 8 year old little girl THAT HAS NEVER BEEN BIT BY ONE OF THEM.BSL is against our constitutional right,and there have been states that have been sued over this and lost.So maybe you need to do some research on this type of dog before you start bad mouthing them.

Bryan . . . the name alone of that website proves it is bias in nature and can not be taken as fact or fiction. You need to provide a website that isn't maintained by actually Pit Bull lovers. That would be like me trying to prove that Al Qaeda is not a terrorist organization from quotes from their own website.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 10:49 AM

jaxspike, Sorry in advance, but you asked for it. Didn't all that higher education learn you better than to double post?

-- Posted by memyselfi on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:04 AM

Since there is not an edit function on this forum, I decided to post the corrected statement since I posted without checking the first time.

I also learned that sarcasm is used when individuals have nothing more intelligent to say.

Anything else memyselfi?

-- Posted by jaxspike on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:30 AM

You are correct regarding my lack of insightful input to the dog story. However, I do see my mistake in leaving that last comment. I wish I had written: "Didn't all that higher education learn you better than to not proof-read?"

-- Posted by memyselfi on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:35 AM

There are only two ways to look at these dogs.You can either love and trust these dogs.Or the ones that are scaried of these dogs.That is a website you can go to learn a little bit more about these dogs.I put that site up because it tells alot about the history of this bred.It tells people about famous people in our history that has owned and loved these dogs.So if you did not go and look do so.You can learn alot.And I only posted one comment the first one was my wife.

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 11:35 AM

I am sure that everyone would agree that no matter what breed the dog is it must be trained. Also having a dog requires a certain amount or responsibility on the owners part. Shouldn't we be concentrating on finding a way to ensure these dogs and all dogs are properly cared for? If these dogs and all dogs are properly trained and cared for these problems would not be occurring. When my Chihuahua misbehaves and is aggressive with people who come into my house she is immediately taken into another room. She does not get the chance to do anything more than growl. I would treat any of my dogs the same way. So yet again I ask should I lose my dogs even though I am responsible? Should I be forced to pay for liability insurance just because one of my dogs is a pit, even though she has never gotten out and won't? Is it fair to persecute responsible owners instead of going after those that aren't responsible?

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 12:09 PM

dbvang2 you said it better than anyone on here

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 12:27 PM

Jaxspike, I never said your opinion wasn't valid. I agree that you have every right to post just like the rest of us. However, you and Nathan keep saying things about Pit Bulls and it's apparent that you both think they should be banned. It's my opinion that neither of you really know a pit bull--other than what you read or hear. Have you ever owned one? And I don't care if you did go to college and you think you are a step or two above the curve and you had a high GPA. That means nothing when you speak of something to which you have no real knowledge. You are simply judging the book by the cover, in this case, a dog by the breed. And to Reed's Pits---THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by candasons07 on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 2:43 PM

No Thank you candasons07. The way jaxspike's post its like he is saying that all people from Bedford Co is not educated or dumb or something I might not be to smart but I know right from wrong

I understand how each of you feel about your dogs I myself feel the same way about mine even though she is not a Pit.

But how does someone go about making sure Pit Bull owners are responsible owners? Should there be a test? Should they be required to send the dog through training of some type? And above all that who would actually enforce this type of ownership?

I realize you have the right to own your dog and you may very well be a responsible owner but there are many others out here that are not.. I too have rights and do not want a Pit Bull around my child or my animals.

What makes someone's right to own a Pit Bull any more valid than my right not to want one around my home?

-- Posted by Dianatn on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 3:58 PM

Dianatn have you ever come in contact with one?Or are you just afraid of what you have heard?And it is awful that you don't even want your child around these dogs.These dogs love children.Not all of these dogs are bad alot of these dogs have great temperaments and are not agressive toward people or other animals.But think about this for a mintue.Some of the people that own these dogs will tie them up away from humans and animals and not feed or water them but every once in awhile.Just so they can make these dogs so hungry that they want to eat the first thing they see.And the way I see it any dog would do the samething if they were being starved.And you can tell the difference between good and bad owners.The good owners dogs will not have fight scars and their dogs will be at a normal or a little over weight size.A bad owners dogs will be all scarred up and be very underweight and very skinny looking.So you can tell the difference between the two.

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 6:10 PM

Yes Sir, I have come in contact with several Pit Bulls none of which were scarred or under weight one had an elderly lady pinned in car.

I had another one run at me while walking down the road if the owner had not been standing on the porch I feel sure he would have attacked.

I also had one come running from across the street of where I work full force growling and barking. I got into my office door before he got to me but he still stood there growling and barking even after I went in.. I have a very good friend who's 2 year old grandchild was bitten in the face by her Children loving Pit Bull. She had 21 surgeries in 6 years her granddaughter is now 14 and you can still see the scars on her face from their family pet.

So yes Mr Reed I have had plenty of experience with Pit Bulls. I know a Pit when I see one and these were all quite close enough for me to see.

I do not think all Pit Bulls are bad just like I don't think all people are bad but still I do not like these dogs nor do I trust them.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Tue, Sep 16, 2008, at 9:05 PM

"Punish the Deed, Not the Breed" is a popular saying among large dog owners when their dogs are categorized into something they believe is not true. I have a pit, a german shepherd and a toy poodle. The poodle is the one you had better watch for. He will nip you and run like a ninja! Usually the big dogs don't even get up to see who is at the door. But they will make you think twice about coming thru that door, and that is just fine by me.

-- Posted by nailman on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 1:37 AM

Thank you Bryan. You tell it like it is. Dianatn, you may have been around some pits that attacked someone or growled at someone, etc, but how may other breeds do you see that run at people that are walking or bark/growl at people they do not know? Sometimes, any dog will come toward you while you are walking because they want to walk with you--not eat you. Every breed of dog barks and growls at other animals or people they do not know. And if a dog feels like it is being threatened in any way, that is the defense mechanism that they use. I like Nailman's comment. Out of 3 different breeds of dogs, you have to watch out for the one that's least expected. You don't have to own a pit bull, but until you do, don't judge them. Like it has been said a million times in this post already, it's all in how they are raised. And as for your friend's child that got bit by the family dog, apparently the dog felt threatened by the child. Otherwise, these dogs love children and only want to protect them. I know because I had one that protected my 2 year old. And never tried to hurt him at all!

-- Posted by candasons07 on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 8:58 AM

Dianatn,

Please take a look at this website about bully breeds.http://www.dontbullymybreed.org/

Others have posted on here that any sites created by bully lovers must be biased. I think this site gives great info about dogs that once were the pet of choice for families and children around the US. Most of us have seen Little Rascals and the dog, Petey, on that show was a bully breed. You stated that you know a "pit bull: when you see one, but that may not be the case. What the general public refers to as a "pit bull" encompasses many bully breeds. Please read e-mail below written a radio station where dj's made negative comments about the bully breed. I think Juliet Parrish, who wrote the e-mail and has experience with bully breeds, is able to present info about bully breeds in a way that dispels many of the myths surrounding the many bully breeds.

E-mail:

We hope that in the

future,

> you will try to be less ignorant as both a favor to the innocent

animals we

> spend so much of our personal time and resources to protect and to

your

> listeners (as we bet many of them own a "pitbull" or a pitbull

mix).

> First, the term "pitbull" does not refer to any breed

of dog. The

> American Pitbull Terrier is one breed recognized as being

a "pitbull", but

> there are also American Staffordshire Terriers (Amstaff's) and

Staffordshire

> Bull Terriers which are commonly referred to as being "pitbulls".

In fact,

> there are nearly 30 breeds of dogs commonly called "pitbulls"

which are not,

> nor are remotely related to the American Pitbull Terrier. In fact,

we invite

> you to visit HYPERLINK

> "http://www.pbrc.net/misc/PBRC_find_the_pitbull.pdf"http://www.pbrc

.net/misc

> /PBRC_find_the_pitbull.pdf to see if you can pick the "pitbull"

from a

> line-up.... very few people can. Many of the dog attacks reported

in the

> media do not even involve an actual American Pitbull Terrier, but

they are

> still given the credit.

> The American Pitbull Terrier actually has a great

temperment to be

> a family dog, which has been tested and proven. In December 2007,

The

> American Temperment Test Society tested 586 American Pitbull

Terriers. Of

> the dogs tested, 494 passed, which is 84.3%... The Society tested

824

> Collies, of which 654, or 79.4% passed. So if pitbulls are

vicious... what

> are Collies? You can go to HYPERLINK

> "http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html"http://www.atts.org/testdesc.htm

l to find

> out exactly how the test is conducted.

> There are some very famous American Pitbull Terriers in

history,

> which actually HAVE helped children and even helped our law

enforcement.

> Helen Keller owned a pitbull named Sir Thomas. (Hey, we didn't

name him...)

> HYPERLINK

> "http://z.hubpages.com/u/98150_f260.jpg"http://z.hubpages.com/u/981

50_f260.j

> pg. Popsicle is the #1 United States Customs dog. He was a 5 month

old puppy

> officials found in a freezer during a raid of a drug dealer's home.

> HYPERLINK

> "http://www.the-proper-

pitbull.com/images/popsicle1.jpg"http://www.the-prope

> r-pitbull.com/images/popsicle1.jpg He holds the record for the

amount of

> drugs seized during a single inspection at his post in Texas at

the Mexican

> border. Sergeant Stubby is the most decorated military dog in

history,

> HYPERLINK

> "http://z.hubpages.com/u/98155_f260.jpg"http://z.hubpages.com/u/981

55_f260.j

> pg, and was the only dog to be promoted to honorary sergeant

because of his

> service to his unit in WW1, serving as a lookout for oncoming

attacks. And

> let's not forget Petey from The Little Rascals HYPERLINK

> "http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09skdh80Uk5NJ/340x.jpg"http://

cache.day

> life.com/imageserve/09skdh80Uk5NJ/340x.jpg, who did not maul a

single child

> in the making of the movie.

> The American Pitbull Terrier is a dog, just like any

other dog.

> They behave according to how they are trained and treated by their

masters.

> They are an extremely loyal breed and they are very eager to

please, which

> has turned into their burden. It is their burden because of the

people that

> see those traits and manipulate them to fill in for their own

cowardice. The

> people that fight them, train them to be aggressive (which is

actually a

> survival mechanism because of the abuse they have endured to be

that way),

> and use these dogs as a "sport" are cruel, inhumane, COWARDS. If

they were

> actually as big and bad as they claim to be, THEY would be the ones

> fighting.

> Breed Specific Legislation does not "fix" the root of

the issue.

> If "Pitbulls" are banned, these people will simply move to another

breed. So

> when will the public asked that the people responsible be punished

instead

> of the dogs? If "Pitbulls" are banned, they will start using

Rotweilers,

> Doberman Pinschers, German Sheperds, etc etc to do the same thing.

We think

> the only reason people push for BSL is because it is easier. Of

course, it

> is easier to persecute dogs instead of people. If you persecute

people,

> people can get lawyers and people take up space in prisons, which

takes

> tax-payers money to run. But if you blame it on the dog... it can

be fixed

> with one quick needle.

> It is truly sad that our society will let the ease of

execution

> supercede the obligation to do what is right. So please, try to

educate

> yourselves on the American Pitbull Terrier and related breeds

before you

> start making false accusations to however many people listen to

you on the

> air. We understand that no argument can sway an opinion based on

blind

> ignorance, but we ask that you try to consider all the people that

are

> putting so much into rescuing these dogs.

> The last dog I adopted out was a 2 year old American

Staffordshire

> Terrier/ American Pitbull Terrier mix named Daisy. She is now with

a great

> family in Lincoln University, Pa. They expressed their concerns

with me

> about a "Pitbull" and asked TONS of questions before they adopted

her. They

> have a 15 year old son at home. Every update they send us, they

tell us what

> a happy, loving dog she is (which I new when we first rescued her

from

> Manhattan Animal Control). When I rescued her, she was

approximately 15

> pounds underweight and she was scared of everything. Someone moved

from

> their apartment in Manhattan and left her in it. She was without

food or

> water for weeks. It would break my heart to watch her eat at

first, because

> she ate completely out of desperation...she would actually choke

herself if

> I gave her too much food in her bowl at once because of how fast

she would

> eat. But I could still reach my hand in her bowl while she ate,

and even

> take the food from her while she was eating. She has never shown

any signs

> of aggression although she was starved and neglected by HUMANS.

Now, she is

> a very well adjusted, affectionate companion for that family. They

have

> another dog that she gets along great with, and they are giving

her the life

> she deserves.

> We believe every animal deserves the right to life and

to be

> treated with compassion and respect. We simply ask that people,

especially

> people with a public voice, try to educate themselves before

spreading even

> more propaganda against these great dogs. If you do not

like "pitbulls",

> don't own one. But there is no reason to put other peoples beloved

pets in

> danger because of your ignorance. There are already enough nut

jobs shooting

> "pitbulls" that mysteriously "run at them" (but the dog gets shot

in the

> back....from 30 yards away....). Or "pitbulls" that are shot in

the neck

> with a shotgun, through a chain link fence....because the dog was

trying to

> attack them. (Note: The part where the guy was on one side of the

fence and

> the dog was on the other side... HYPERLINK

> "http://www.justiceforgage.com/"www.justiceforgage.com.

>

> Thank you for your time.

> If you have any further questions about the breed, please let us

know.

>

> Juliet Parrish (& Helping The Helpless Pets).

> Animal Lover & Pitbull Foster Mom

> Helping The Helpless Pets

> HYPERLINK

> "http://www.helpingthehelplesspets.com/"www.helpingthehelplesspets.

com

-- Posted by alionberger on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 9:33 AM

I appreciate the fact that you guys love your dogs and there is nothing in this world wrong with that. I never once said "Ban the Breed" I do not like the dogs nor do I want one. Nothing you can ever say will make me like these dogs on top of that I am not sure why it should matter to you if I like these dogs or not. Considering the fact I pay my house payments not you and the fact I do not want one of these dogs around my child or my dogs is my Right. Just as it is your right to own the dogs.

All I ask is keep the dogs out of my yard and in your own yard if you want to own one. That's not to hard to understand, is it?

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 10:42 AM

I was in no way trying to say you should like bully breeds, have a bully breed, or allow bully breeds on your property. I cannot speak for the other people on this blog. I was providing information to you regarding the breed that I was hoping would give you another persepctive of the breed. No, it does not matter to me if you like bully breeds...What bothers me is when people (I am not saying you per say) do not have enough information about any given topic and make unfounded judgments on the topic. I was only responding to what you wrote on a public blog. No, it is not hard to understand what you are saying. I am just curious, what kind of dog do you have?

-- Posted by alionberger on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 11:04 AM

There are always going to be dogs that people like and don't like and that should be fine with everyone. What gets people upset is blanket statements about a whole breed or type of dog. I wish there was a way to get all dog owners to commit to taking responsibility for their animals. It is not always easy to have an animal and to deal with whatever problems arise, but that is part of your commitment to them. Dogs are not toys, or just something that is fun to do when it is convenient. They depend on you to provide them with food, shelter, and safety. They should not be running loose anywhere!

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 11:17 AM

I now have a 5.6 pound Shih Tzu. I have had large dogs but they were never allowed to roam in anyone's yard. It seems people these days do not take care of their animals (any kind not just Pit Bulls) they get these dogs when they are puppies because they are cute and cuddly then when they get older they allow them the roam the streets or move and abandon them altogether. I never once said that it was the dogs fault. But innocent people and innocent animals have been hurt by people leaving their dogs to fend for themselves.

That is the practice I want stopped but I am not sure how that could be something that is enforced other than animal control picking them up and that is not as easily done as one may think.

If a stray dog comes into my yard and attacks my dog or my child (whether it be a Pit or not) and I pick up the phone to call animal control by the time they get to my house then my child or my dog will either be dead or mauled and most likely the stray dog nowhere to be found.

I could not stand by and watch a dog kill my child or my dog and I should not have to..

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 11:26 AM

Well Dianatn, that is the point. Why have legislation passed that does not promote taking care of this problem. A ban on pit bulls or any other dogs is just kind of a band aid on the problem. I forces responsible owners like myself to either move or give up my dog. I go to great lengths to ensure that none of my dogs can get loose. The other dog owners I know do similar things. Animal control needs to quicker to react. They either need more employees or the police need to be able to respond to these calls. If a dog is loose it needs to be subdude and brought to the pound, and their owner should be educated on proper dog care at their expense. If they don't want to deal with the responsibility of having a dog than they shouldn't have one. This is true of any dog no matter what size or breed. If a strange dog were to come into my yard I would be appalled.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 11:40 AM

Unfortunately this issue wont be resolved here because Pit Bull owners are naturely bias on the situation and others are biased on their thinking too . . . I just find it amusing when a Pit Bull hurts or kills someone you always hear the owner on the news give some excuse about how their little angel of a pet never hurt anyone in the family and was always a good dog and how they are shocked at what happened.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 12:10 PM

jaxspike, I think any of us would be shocked if our dogs did anything like that. It seems that a lot of these things that happen, happen in places other than the owner's yard. How did these dogs get out? No dog should be allowed out no matter what breed they are. If these dogs or any dogs were not out and running around there would be nothing to discuss. So how do we get owners to take care of their animals? That should be the topic instead of trying to ban a specific breed. Once you start banning a specific breed of animal it is very easy to ban all dogs over a certain weight, from a particular region, or of a particular fur color because more issues are associated with them.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 12:16 PM

Dianatn,

You are right...so many people do not take care of animals not matter what the breed or type....I totally agree with you that that is the main issue....I have been charged by a Chow and two Shar Peis while out walking my dogs...it scared me to death....luckily nothing happened...but for a brief moment I was frozen...I know you are not saying a ban should be placed on any breed....Thank you for expressing your views without trying to put down the views of others...

-- Posted by alionberger on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 12:46 PM

jaxspike

Have you never noticed that the media never reports on anything other than Pit Bull attacks.And if you do you hear oh that was just a fluke accident.But if you hear it about Pit Bulls people assume that all the breed is awful.Did all of you know that in WW1 it was a Pit Bull that found alot of our wounded soldiers.And did you all know that these dogs are now used as rehab dogs and the people love having these dogs come and visit them.And another thing a Pit Bull made the biggest drug bust ever.But that kind of stuff doesn't matter when it comes to these dogs.the first thing people think is oh no its a Pit Bull its going to hurt someone.But most of those comments come from people that hear other people talking about them and want for a second even think about meeting one.And to dianatn your storied were awful but just because you have had a run in with a few doesn't mean all are bad.And my mother has the same kind of dogs that you do and if you don't watch them they will bite in a heart beat.Pit Bulls are good when it comes to children because pain doesn't bother them as bad as it does other breeds.And what about that little dog about a year ago that killed a 2 month old baby.This just goes to show that any dog of any kind can be bad.And we know that you are not saying ban them but you are also not saying don't ban them.

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 7:03 PM

Anyone who would leave a 2 month old baby alone with any kind of animal is a fool, plain and simple.

As far as any dog biting, Yes I have already stated that fact. Given the choice, would you rather be attacked by a Shih Tzu, Pom, etc or a Pit Bull, Rottie or Doberman, etc?

The biggest difference in being attacked by any large breed dog is the amount of damage they can actually do to you..my Shih Tzu may bite my ankles but my foot is about her size so I feel sure if I had to I could kick her away from me, I don't think it would be possible to kick a Pit Bull anywhere.

I am neither on the Band wagon to get them Banned nor am I on the Band wagon Not to Ban them. I just want the Band wagon to pause long enough to make sure that owners are responsible for their own dogs whatever the breed.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 7:28 PM

Dianatn, no one ever said that you were trying to ban these dogs. That would be Nathan and Jaxspike. However, no one said let them run in your yard either. This was based on whether or not they should be banned, so your comment on letting them run in your yard really has no significance. Like Bryan said, you didn't say ban them, but you didn't say don't ban them either. And honestly, if we were taking vote, I think you would vote to ban them simply because you hear bad things about them or read about attacks and because you had a "run in" with a couple of them. It all boils down to how they are raised and how they are treated, as with any dog. And when you think of it, it's like that with people. They act according to how they were raised. So I guess we should ban all the people that commit crimes. Is that how you see it? And also like Bryan said, it's true that only the bad things about these dogs gets reported.

-- Posted by candasons07 on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 7:36 PM

candasons07

Actually you are wrong. If these dogs were not running loose, in neighborhoods, down city streets and in other people's yards there would not be any problem with these dogs.

I have yet to hear of a Pit Bull attacking someone because they jumped over the fence to play with the Pit Bull. If that did in fact happen I truly believe we would all chalk that up to stupidity.

Bottom Line: If these dogs were at their owners home or yard then there would not be all these attacks and thus there would be no stories to hear about. When a Dog attacks a family member you rarely hear that family calling for a Ban of the breed that they owned.

So if your dog is allowed to run loose even to run out to the bathroom, then you are part of the problem. If you can not control your dog on a leash, Build a fence.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 7:57 PM

The last post states that if owners would make sure their dogs would stay on their land and no one elses there would be no problem.So are you now seeing the point everyone is trying to make about the owners.If the owners would be more responsible with these dogs and do them right they would be good dogs.So all the problems are coming from IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS.

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 9:28 PM

All this talk about Pit Bull's has got me wondering. Where can I get one? ;) Because I am a responsible pet owner, and have no problem dissecting stereotypes!

If you will look back at every post I have made on this blog I have said exactly the same thing.

Problem is you have no idea what your dog would do if he was left to roam your neighborhood.

How a dog acts around people and animals he knows is completely different than how he acts when he is outside his comfort zone.

All dogs, that owners let out are not abused or neglected..they are well taken care of and their owners firmly believe their dog wouldn't hurt a fly. They believe it is their right to let their dog out to get exercise without a leash or fence.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Sep 17, 2008, at 10:08 PM

Dianatn

Thats right about their comfort zone and that goes for any dog.And my dogs have got out of their pens before and my neighbors will just say your dogs out.My dog never tried to hurt anyone.You know their are teachers in our school systems that own or have owned these dogs.Now if that don't tell people something about dogs I don't know what will.These dogs are a wonderful breed and its just awful that people want take the time to see that.Everyone just needs to leave these dogs alone.

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 8:42 AM

LOL, Most of all the breeds of dogs were breed for hunting or killing of animals, even the little lap or house dogs that most have that are against pit bulls. I am not a owner of a pit bull but I have seen some of the most wonderful dogs of this breed and some of the worst. A lot of factors goes into a dog there pedigree, how they are treated and raised. The same goes for most animals and humans also. There are probably more people bit by house dogs than pits but the pit get a bad rep from dog fighting and people raising them for this, as the saying goes Punish the Deed not the Breed.

-- Posted by johnnyreb on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 9:56 AM

You know their are teachers in our school systems that own or have owned these dogs.Now if that don't tell people something about dogs I don't know what will.These dogs are a wonderful breed and its just awful that people want take the time to see that.Everyone just needs to leave these dogs alone.

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 8:42 AM

I am not sure what the statement about teachers owning Pit Bulls should imply but just because a teacher owns a Pit Bull does not make them good dogs.

And I have no problem leaving these dogs alone nor would anybody else, as long as "these" dogs leave everybody else alone!

-- Posted by Dianatn on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 11:45 AM

Darrick 04,

There are many bully breeds at shelters and rescues. Please check there first. It depends where you live, as some shelters will not adopt out bully breeds to the public. The shelter can usually give you a name of a reputable rescue for bully breeds. So many bully breeds are dumped at shelters every day or have been picked up by animal control. Most will be killed...so please check local shelters and rescues as you will find a wonderful companion there...

-- Posted by alionberger on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 6:09 PM

I am tried of coming on here and trying to defend these poor dogs.I have a child I can be playing with instead of on here agruing with ignorant people.And dogs that we can be playing with.And the people that think they know what they are talking about is crazy.Because they have NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.Dianatn I made that statement about the teachers to state a fact that alot of responsible people own these dogs.I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind about these dogs (and I have tried for many years).And how can these dogs leave everybody else alone when there are people out there that want them to do this kind of stuff.And in my opinion Dianatn really needs to get a hobby instead of blogging on just about ever blog there is.And remember GOD created everybody and everything equal.And just to go ahead and tell you what that means.I'm talking about a Pit Bull has the same rights as any other dogs.

Kammie Reed

-- Posted by Bryan Reed on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 7:05 PM

I understand now why people who own Pit Bulls do not see their dogs as a problem..Bully People own Bully Breeds.

And just for your opinion: I do have a hobby it is called work. I work most days from a computer and have a lot of in between time.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Thu, Sep 18, 2008, at 8:15 PM

Dogs are what people make them. There are a few in every breed that are "born mean" just like some people are "born mean". They roam around and create havoc also.

Noone's kids or animals should be roaming loose through the neighborhood or country. Keep them home in a fenced yard if you want to keep them safe.

The outside world is hard and cruel.

I have owned pit bulls that were much sweeter than huskies or german shepherds or collies. They were sweet because they were loved and petted and played with.

I still don't understand where one gets the statement that they are potential killers. Every animal and human is a potential killer in the right situation. Many dogs do not show any sign of violence unless they perceive their owners to be threatened.

Our kids, families and friends deserve to feel safe and should expect to be safe in our own town. Our city leaders can enact tougher laws to reverse this dangerous dog problem. To do as little as they have so far is just wrong and borderline criminal. I hold each of them responsible for every human injury and /or death caused by these dogs until they decide to not be intimidated and do what is right.

-- Posted by Kriegsadler on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 12:48 AM

"Bully people own bully breeds."

Teddy Roosevelt himself couldn't have said it better.

I agree that people need to take responsibility for their animal companions.

That said,sometimes pets and even children get out of the house or fenced yards and put themselves and others at risk.

Humans need to think long and hard before they add an animal of any kind to their family.

They need to research the breeds and be ready to give them what they require.

They don't need to have to get rid of a critter in order to live somewhere any more than they'd have to abandon a human part of their household.

(Do we hear much about people giving up their toddlers if they make noise,tear up whatever they touch,bite and scratch and pee in the neighbors' flower beds?)

If a human with the intellect of a small child is a danger or nuisance,the people in charge of him are expected to supervise him,control him and compensate for any damage he causes.

Few people would expect his family to eliminate the problem by taking his life or dumping him out in the country.

They'd assume his people would try training him or re-home him with people capable of dealing with his needs.

Why should a family with an animal who has no history of violence or destructive behavior have to worry about when their loved one might be confiscated and killed?

We tell some convicted criminals that they can't live in certain areas,that they have to register their place of residence and that those around them must be told about their presence and the risks involved in their living in that neighborhood.

We don't insist that they (or anyone who reminds us of them) be denied the chance to lead a happy,productive life with people who care for them.

Let's TRY insisting that people ready themselves for the responsibilities of being the caretaker for another life before bringing any being into their household.

Let them get the education they need and have the financial resources lined up before Junior,Fido or Fluffy joins them.

If we start with preventive measures aimed at humans,we might not need as much legislation directed toward other species.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 10:46 AM

OMG . . let's shed a tear for Pit Bulls and their owners for how they are discriminated against in the world.

Really, some of you should read what you write. It is almost funny!

Dianatn . . . I laughed at your statement "Bully People own Bully Breeds". It seems everyone that I have ever met that had a Rottweiler or a Pit Bull was basically a redneck but I know that isnt true for all. Your statement though made me think about that. LOL!

-- Posted by jaxspike on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 11:10 AM

Dianatn, I kept mine in a pen. And unlike you I have heard of people sticking their faces down at these dogs and "mocking" them. Or throwing stuff at them thinking they can't get to them. And then when the dog retaliates, it ends up being punished instead of punishing the taunters. It all boils down to how they are treated and how they are raised. So NO I was not wrong. I am responsible. Don't blame all of us that are responsible just because you have seen/heard of ones that aren't responsible. You are wrong. Not all people that own these "bully breeds" as you call them are bully people. I owned one and I am far from a bully person. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you say anything else!

-- Posted by candasons07 on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 3:44 PM

And then when the dog retaliates, it ends up being punished instead of punishing the taunters

Posted by candasons07 on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 3:44 PM

If the kids at school was picking on the "fat kid" calling him names and the fat kid took all he was going to take and brought a gun to school and shot the kids that was picking on him, by your standards the Fat Kid should go unpunished. I guess you could go on and on about how the kids deserved everything they got, unless of course it was your kid that was shot.

The reason you are here defending Pit Bulls is because Pit Bulls have attacked many people, maybe not yours but others have. Dogs that were always somewhere they were not suppose to be!! I haven't seen anyone having to defend Collies or Great Danes or Shih Tzu's or Poodles...Nope just Pit Bulls. That should tell you something, if your weren't so bias.

My facts are straight maybe you should "Google" Pit Bulls Attack and see how many hits you actually get in comparison to "Collies Attack"

-- Posted by Dianatn on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 4:33 PM

candasons07

Just a note here I am not arguing with you about the Pit Bulls as I have said many times I just want owners to be responsible for their dogs. I do not want to be afraid for my child to go outside. I do not want the dogs killed or even banned, unless of course the dog has actually attacked then the Dog should be put down with no questions ask..

Taking the dogs away from irresponsible owners would be good enough for me, I just don't want it have to wait until the dog attacks and hurts or kills somebody before the dog is removed from a irresponsible owner.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 4:45 PM

Please stop responding to Dianatn and Jaxspike...they are enjoying this way too much...they say we are biased but based on their comments they do not read the info people are posting that contradicts what they say...if they did they would not keep repeating themselves and defending their unfounded views, they also would not find it necessary to insult others on this blog..that just shows they do not have any facts to back them up

also, on the dogsbite.org website there is an article published in 2000 in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association that concludes "Although fatal attacks on humans appear to be breed specific problem (pit bull type dogs and rottweilers)other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates. Because of difficulties of determining a dogs breed for certainty, enforcement of breed specific ordinances raise constitutional and practical issues. Fatal attacks represent a small proportion of dog bite injuries to humans and therefore should not be a primary factor driving public policy concerning dangerous dogs. Many practical alternatives exist and hold promise for prevention of dog bites."

As far as the quote from Teddy Roosevelt...here is what history says about him...http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo106.html

"Understanding the real Teddy Roosevelt is therefore important if one wants to understand the mindset of the warmongering imperialists who control the Republican Party (and the federal government) today. The truth is, Teddy Roosevelt was an imperialist who was morbidly fascinated with war and killing. He was a died-in-the-wool statist who considered himself to be the political heir to Hamilton, Clay, and Lincoln. He was a reckless, frenetic interventionist who displayed little knowledge (especially on economic issues) or even concern about the likely consequences of his interventions.

TR's mental stability was questionable, to say the least. Mark Twain, who met him twice, judged that he was "clearly insane," as Tom Woods recalls in an essay on Roosevelt in Reassessing the Presidency (John Denson, editor). In biographies of TR we learn that after an argument with his girlfriend a young Teddy Roosevelt went home and shot his neighbor's dog. When he killed his first Spaniard in Cuba he "abandoned himself to complete hysteria," as biographer Edmund Morris recounts. As president Roosevelt would take morning rides through Rock Creek Park wildly shooting at tree branches with a pistol, oblivious to the harm he might do to the nearby private homes in the District of Columbia. He once strung a wire across the Potomac River so that he could hang on it because, he said, his wrists needed strengthening.

Far more important than Teddy Roosevelt's insane antics, however, is his misbehavior as president, which was a disaster for the nation. The reasons why are catalogued in a new biography entitled Bully Boy: The Truth About Theodore Roosevelt's Legacy by Jim Powell.

It was TR who first declared that the U.S. should act as the world's policeman, a dramatic contrast to George Washington's and Thomas Jefferson's policy of commercial relations with all nations and entangling alliances with none. Consequently, writes Powell, "the United States has become involved in dozens of wars, and hundreds of thousands of American soldiers have died in wars that had little, if anything, to do with U.S. national security." Here you have the principal reason why the neocons are just wild about Teddy."

Click on the website above this paragraph for more about this "wonderful, insightful, man". I can see why those against bully breeds would quote him...

-- Posted by SRYAN on Fri, Sep 19, 2008, at 11:04 PM

Now ya done went and hurt my feelings LOL

-- Posted by Dianatn on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 11:42 AM

i feel that a pitbull is not the only dog that is liable to turn on its owner or some body else.i feel that any breed can do so. i am a pit bull lover and have 4 of them amd they all will do there job am protect me and my family.if you try to ban pitbulls then i feel that you should ban ALL dogs.it doesnt matter what kind of dog you have, you never know if or when it will decide to turn on you or someone else.now if these people will stop antognizing these dogs they will not have nothing to worry about

-- Posted by sorange3306 on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 3:14 PM

It is how they are brought up. Most people raise them to be mean.

-- Posted by camel jockey on Sat, Sep 20, 2008, at 6:44 PM

Dianatn, No I am not saying that a kid that has been picked on that brings a gun to school should not be punished. What I am saying is that some people do things without thinking about the consequences of their actions. So if someone put their face down at a dog and got bit, they would want the dog to be punished, especially if it were a Pit Bull because they are considered a "bully breed". Kids in school don't think that another kid could bring a gun and shoot at them just because of words. The old saying, sticks and stones may break my bones but words could never hurt me is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard. I understand what you are saying, but what I am getting at is that not all of these dogs are bad. And sometimes, when they bite or "attack", they have been provoked!

-- Posted by candasons07 on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 9:04 AM

I tend to agree with you Candasons07. I was out walking my Airedale Terrier one day and some kids started yelling and screaming and carrying on trying to get her upset and then saying she was a crazy dog. They didn't even get near enough to her to know anything about her. I blame their parents. Who knows what they would have done if I wasn't around. All dogs are potentially dangerous, and growing up I was always taught you never ever approach a strange dog unless their owner says it is ok. Certainly if a dog is out running around you stay away. Oh yeah I grew up before the whole pit bull scare so it was not pit bull specific.

-- Posted by dbvang2 on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, at 12:27 PM

Thank you dbvang2. My mom used to have a Chihuahua and if you got close to him--even if he knew you--he would growl and snap at you. So the aggression is in every dog, it's just the ones that are considered "bully breeds" that get reported. I have read and heard about people and other animals being attacked by Pit Bulls, but you have to look at how they were raised and if they were provoked. I just wonder how many other breeds of dogs attack people or other animals without getting more media coverage than the election at hand?

-- Posted by candasons07 on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 4:44 PM

Just something to think about:

A child is 5 times more likely to die at the hand of a parent than a dog attack. I don't see anyone wanting to ban violent/or irresponsible parents.

"A gun doesn't kill people, people do". Try to ban guns in Texas and see how that works.

HELEN KELLER OWNED A PITBULL.

Pitbulls came with the settlers and were known as "nanny dogs". They protected and watched the children, as well as the property.

WWI and WWII had a pitbull that was a poster child for democracy. Stubby, was awarded one of the highest medals of honor for his courage and the things he did to keep his unit safe.

There are 25 other breeds that are frequently mistaken for pit bulls every day. Put "spot the pitbull" in your browser and click on the page. Can you?

Pitbulls were bred from an English Bull Mastiff and now extinct white terrier. Bulldogs, Boston Terriers, Jack Russell terriers all belong to the same group.

Men have corrupted these magnificent animals: they are tortured, burned, beaten, starved, and other horrific things to make them fight or because they wouldn't fight.

Pit Bulls rank at the 83/84 % on the temperment testing. That's higher than Labradors/Golden Retrievers who are thought to be "family" dogs. If pit bulls have to go, then I think all those dogs that test out lower have to go too.

After all, they have more potential for aggression than pitbulls so naturally, they are a danger to your children, too.

-- Posted by bullywoman on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 5:48 PM

No matter what the breed, it is NEVER the dogs "fault".

Domesticated dogs are what they are because of the people that bred them and raised them. Any dog can bite, many dogs can kill. Where is the parent that didnt watch the child and dog together? Where is the owner that left their dog on a chain in the yard for the neighborhood kids to taunt? And, by the way, where are the parents of the kids that allow the preteens to tease the neighbors dog?

Arrest the irresponsible owners, fine them, jail them, and dont allow them to have dogs in the future.

However, to single out ANY breed of dog because of what a human has taught it or bred it to do is wrong. Breed ban legislation hurts all dog owners. How do you know it wont be your favorite breed next? German Shepherds can be frightening. My neighbors have a nasty Cocker Spaniel. My sons pediatrician had a St. Bernard that growled at everyone.