Preaching the gospel of spiritual independence

May 28, 2019

Open Thread 21 (free speech for comments)

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks devoid of substantive content are an exception.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Hi 777
The power that runs this creation is Shabd, as far as I can tell. We are all codified Shabd.

But mind is a huge barrier, but also a huge help. Higher mind helps us overcome lower mind. Still, Shabd pulls is through it all.

Shabd is there, the Word is there, and it hardly matters whether we hear or not. At the designated time, you go.

This idea of waving something mysterious in front of others is, I see now, fraught with problems. Each person can find so much within themselves within their conscious capacity to witness with just a little inner practice. It could be higher mind. You might witness your own ideas, and that's Discovery also. Mindfulness is the path forward. Mindfulness that leads to inner contemplation naturally. Everything else happens in stages. Like an unfolding flower, we can't accelerate our change that.

Hi 777
You wrote
"Trillions, . . . in fact Zillions said this, Few succeeded to stop thinking, end their inner dialogue during 15 seconds"

Just as all become faithful believers and filled with prayer and supplication as their plane nosedives our of control towards the earth, so every soul is enamored with the Lord upon their death. The light compels the moth to single minded devotion. It's a natural event.

You need to watch it happen to understand. The power that runs even the creator of the creator is compassionate, even passionate.

No human being could possibly embody that, and none do.

You wrote
"Are thousand galaxies full of ink enough to write the zeros of the number of the big bangs
Do U know what U are writing about?"

To paraphrase Vishnu, looking upon a line of marching ants and smiling, "All these were 'Gurinders'"

But as to duty, I follow the direct commands of my Master, who has saved me countless times. It is a simple command : Sat, Chit, Anand.

And as for Sat, if He posts it in print, scrupulous journalism, tireless and careful auditing, over and over again, independent verified proof from multiple sources, why blame me? Take your case against the facts.

When God speaks to you in a dozen articles for all to see, what is keeping you entrenched in a dogma that allows such theft and harm to others?

"We cancel ourselves stepping outside to defend fraud.
You have not met the victims, so they are of no concern to you. But the Shabd is deeply concerned."

Are you going to save the world Spence? Are you going to judge everyone for their misdoings or is it only because its a guru and you are determined to bring him down. The Shabd is not concerned. Each and every person who has done wrong will experience justice for their actions.

Your imagination is dangerous. There are fraudsters galore in this world. Why don't you go after them??? There are people you would not utter a word even you knew something was a miss. Trust me you wouldn't- out of fear of retribution in this beautiful universe of ours.

You are going after GSD as you know he won't do anything to you. The comfort factor.

After being/realising experiencing God, The Splendid One
Would you have any enthusiasm to be that (your) old self again. . . . NO
Be honest, Not even with thousand blogs to be proud of, . .
not Sis Theresa
Nobody would
So , what's the point?

Hi Arjuna
You wrote
"You are going after GSD as you know he won't do anything to you. The comfort factor....
There are fraudsters galore in this world. Why don't you go after them???"

My daily work in healthcare.....

This is just a side thing I'm doing for Baba Ji.

And it's simple really, just citing public data and asking for change that the individual can take steps towards.

And it's great because Brian Ji appreciates and encourages it.

But I think Brian Ji teaches a more cautionary lesson. If you don't do this. If you choose to be passive, if you choose not to use your voice, that changes you. That warps you. That blinds you. And so year after year, thinking you are being honest with yourself, you discover you have been lying to yourself all along. A convenient lie.

And when you wake up, after a little of the Brian Ji bulldozer, you simply can't go back into the blindness ever again. Can't be done.

And when you see others here reacting emotionally to the discomfort of facts, you know your just have to keep on going.

What would devotees do if they really understood he was guilty?
It would be a crucial decision point.
If I still believe He is God and I love Him should I offer to help Him out?
That's easy enough. We should help God, right?
If I no longer believe He is God but I still love him as a person, should I help him out?
Personal decision. But it might oblige you to actually put out some effort and money.

Is it possible you and others defend Baba Ji because it saves you the trouble of having to help someone who has fallen down a well?

And it raises the ethical question of whether you would help another normal person who meant well but fell. Do we reject them or help them?

I witnessed the former in the Sangat in LA. A couple was found to be cheating and everyone acted as if they didn't exist.

The problem with RSSB can be seen here. Despite all the claims that RSSB rejects the caste system and encourages treating each other as equals, the organization, made of human beings, perpetuates the caste system from the culture of its leaders.

Would you defend Baba Ji if you knew it would cost you greatly in money and time and you would get no spiritual payment, since he isn't a Sat Guru, just a guy doing a job?

And are you willing to help a normal person who thought they were more, but fell?

The answer to these questions is too often no and no.

So you have here your own answer to the question of why a Sat Guru might play this game.

And He will have to continue playing it until you all have not only said 'yes, yes' but acted upon that promise.

"And so year after year, thinking you are being honest with yourself, you discover you have been lying to yourself all along."

"Is it possible you and others defend Baba Ji because it saves you the trouble of having to help someone who has fallen down a well?"

I think most of the commenters on this blog have removed themselves from RSSB and we are neither lying to ourselves and we are not defending Baba Ji. If you are going to call out the believers then why not talk to them. I read this blog everyday and occasionally comment and have done so for over 10 years and its annoying to be constantly preached at with this barrage of nonsense.

You seem to be obsessed with Gurinder and I was wondering why you don't go to the Dera and call him out? If thats not possible maybe write to him and lecture him. I don't think he even reads this blog because he is very busy, doing his own service to the Sangat. We know Gurinder is not perfect, but for his followers its up to them to decide.

Spence you have written so many scenarios of if this happened or if that happened. My question for you is...what if it’s proven that BBJ has nothing to do with all this and that he was only an advisor to all of them and had no wrong doings whatsoever. What would you say then?

Hz. Nizam might have had an intercourse with the lady - (physical or spiritual?) - what's the joke?

Hazur Soami Ji might have had the control over the bank in Agra with huge sum of money - what's the joke?

HE might have been managing millions/billions/trillions/zillions - what's the joke?

the innocent joke is that you think you understand what Hazur wants and commands,
and that Babaji, a True Satguru, appointed by Hazur, a 100 storey lighthouse, a tower of grandeur, doesn't.
I enjoy reading your comments on lighter note and for fun.

Arjuna and One Initiated, you see the Baba Ji which is trotted out to the masses. You see the image we all want to see. White clothes, white beard, sarcastic answers to play to the sangat.

You have no idea what he does in the background, the people he really associates with. The scheming and money being dealt back and forth and the solicitation of politicians. You see what the Dera managers and handlers want you to see. If you had greater access to him, like the wealthy people do, you'd see something totally different.

So Amy's Food owner decides he's going to buy the land for the Petaluma Study Centre. Now, for the last 10 years, every North American Study Centre has to purchase their nasty vegan burritos for every GSD official visit. It's actually written into the official visit guidelines provided by the Dera.

I guess if you "donate" the land or property, you get a customer for life. Makes sense, right? Not.

Money and religion don't mix, but invariably, they do mix, sometimes as give and take, or land for sustaining a prominent satsangi's business. Must be nice to keep your business going with a spiritual organization's demand for your product, spelled out in a list of directives from the Dera.

But I guess you'll have an answer for that also. I bet if GSD announced on the stage that he was guilty of taking the money, you all would probably say, naahh, he was testing us to see if we'd still follow him. Keep following, my friends.

"ps
all these efforts here to humiliate HIM, next attack the Teachings up to Tulsi, Up to Rumi
are disgusting"

You know if you were to go deeper into Indian culture, you'd find that all these names you know are just the huge popular poets of those times and not necessarily the "true saints" or whatever you tell yourself. Mirabai is considered to have been far less prolific than we think, and some would go as far as saying she wroter almost none of "her" poems.

You act like some guy who heard of the top 5 American bands and now considers himself an expert on music, not knowing that there are 1000's of other options out there. You have no way of knowing if Mirabai was real let alone a saint, which you also don't know if they're real.

You suck, 777. Your kind of zealotry is why we'll all live in 3rd world slums soon. Humanity is getting less intelligent by the day, and only the worst of the worst are breeding. The future is bleak and Rumi was nothing but a cow eating, sharia law enforcing psychopath who wrote poems. If you think you're seeing him in your meditation, that's proof that your meditational experiences are all imagination.

777, I don't lie. I even use my real name. My comments are not meant to humiliate anyone actually.
The teachings still hold a small place in my heart, but the path is far from where it started in the late 1800's. The ideals and intent of the teachings are admirable, but to be honest, following the guru in that vein is a difficult thing for me comprehend in today's time and that's where I have come to at my current state.

For someone like you who claims to be in touch with the inner shabd, you speak contrary to that state. You should be clear of mind and heart, your comments do not reflect this. If I had these experiences as you indicate, I sure as hell wouldn't be on here blabbing about it and wasting my energy on this blog.

To say that GSD is doing all this crap to teach us all a lesson to go and do our meditation is so unbelievably naive, I don't know where to begin, and it's not just you saying this, there are others.

Normally I don't respond to anything you post, but thought I would this time. Have a great day dude.

Literally the antithesis of everything taught by all the gurus of RSSB and all the "saints" you like to name. The word "fun" never comes up in this ecosystem of depressing literature.

You want us all to join the cult you're in by telling us it's the polar opposite of what it really is. This is actually a really normal part of cult indoctrination. Jehova's Witnesses tell you that they're all about free will and harmony in their families, then you find out much later that all family members must fall in line or else be "shunned" by the whole community. In short, they lie to get you to join.

Telling people to have fun but also that your cult is correct is trickery. Once they join and hear the announcements in satsang advising people not to socialize or have picnics, they enter into the truth that is "sant mat." Very standard social control stuff, but with no worldly benefit like political social control might offer.

As for "Show me one human that suffered from BBJ ?" Read Punjabi news. People lost farm land to his cult. Others were pressured out of homes and pressured to give dera all their money as widows with nowhere to go.

This is all the direct result of Gurinder's need to grow like a corporation. Nothing about this cult is "spiritual" or "expansive" or any other good one might associate with a religion. It's a business.