I agree that reiki is not a Vajrayāna system in it's self, just that it utilizes syllables, one of which i still maintain as a variation of Hrih.

It has no more value that Hrih, i.e. the English letters, HRIH, from a Vajrayāna perspective.

It is best not to conflate systems. Of course, now, someone is going to fabricate a Vajrayāna Reiki, invent an empowerment for it and so on, it is only a matter of time...

Thanks for clearing it up although i would have to check with other sources to confirm. Well the second syllabble used within reiki loooks very similar and not out of place among the variations of Hrih ,no ?

It's best not to conflate systems i agree, but can you at least see the commonalities of the subtle-energy traditions mentioned too ?

Reiki alone in the traditional sense, might not lead to the same level of liberation the 3 yanas present, but it's certainly a skill to take with you along the path in the same way learning to drive a car might be a useful skill along the path for certain people.

Here is an article /scientific paper of initial research some may find interesting:

The Electricity of Touch: Detection and Measurement of Cardiac Energy Exchange Between People

" The idea that an energy exchange of some type occurs between individuals is a central theme in many healing techniques. This concept has often been disputed by Western science due to the lack of a plausible mechanism to explain the nature of this energy or how it could affect or facilitate the healing process. The fact that the heart generates the strongest electromagnetic field produced by the body, coupled with the recent discovery that this field becomes more coherent as the individual shifts to a sincerely loving or caring state prompted us to investigate the possibility that the field generated by the heart may significantly contribute to this energy exchange.

We present a sampling of results which provide intriguing evidence that an exchange of electromagnetic energy produced by the heart occurs when people touch or are in proximity. Signal averaging techniques are used to show that one’s electrocardiogram (ECG) signal is registered in another person’s electroencephalogram (EEG) and elsewhere on the other person’s body. While this signal is strongest when people are in contact, it is still detectable when subjects are in proximity without contact.

This study represents one of the first successful attempts to directly measure an energy exchange between people, and provides a solid, testable theory to explain the observed effects of many healing modalities that are based upon the assumption that an energy exchange takes place. Nonlinear stochastic resonance is discussed as a mechanism by which weak, coherent electromagnetic fields, such as those generated by the heart of an individual in a caring state, may be detected and amplified by biological tissue, and potentially produce measurable effects in living systems. One implication is that the effects of therapeutic techniques involving contact or proximity between practitioner and patient could be amplified by practitioners consciously adopting a sincere caring attitude, and thus introducing increased coherence into their cardiac field."

"Just as water flows from one vessel to another, prana flows like a steady current from a developed yogi towards weak persons." ~ Sivananda

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've always been skeptical of it not due to it's origins, but due to the fact that people with no real previous training can go to weekend seminars and become "masters". I'm convinced that some level of energy/body work is real..just not from most people who do Reiki. I've felt stuff from acupuncture and qigong, etc. and what felt from Reiki people was just someone putting their hands above me...and that's coming from me, someone who is not even a skeptic on such things.

I used to be a massage therapist, went to massage school etc., and can tell you, as it stands in the US 99.9% of "Reiki masters" are LMP's who went to a weekend seminar, and paid a few hundred bucks to get something else they could add to their credentials.

This is also my feeling on the subject.Its always been bizarre to me how a person can go on a weekend reiki course and become an master. Quite bizzare indeed.

Vasana wrote:
This study represents one of the first successful attempts to directly measure an energy exchange between people, and provides a solid, testable theory to explain the observed effects of many healing modalities that are based upon the assumption that an energy exchange takes place. [...]"

Superb. Let one reductionist approach explain the other. I'll need popcorn for the results. By the way. Heat therapy is not that uncommon ...

Reiki alone in the traditional sense, might not lead to the same level of liberation the 3 yanas present, but it's certainly a skill to take with you along the path in the same way learning to drive a car might be a useful skill along the path for certain people.

That puts Reiki at level with all other illusions that have to be dropped. In my experience it takes people quite long to drop it once it has been taken up. Then it qualifies as bad kamma.

Vasana wrote:
This study represents one of the first successful attempts to directly measure an energy exchange between people, and provides a solid, testable theory to explain the observed effects of many healing modalities that are based upon the assumption that an energy exchange takes place. [...]"

Superb. Let one reductionist approach explain the other. I'll need popcorn for the results. By the way. Heat therapy is not that uncommon ...

It's amazing that out of every possible avenue mentioned in the paper, you took that from it. That could also be seen as reductionist.

Reiki alone in the traditional sense, might not lead to the same level of liberation the 3 yanas present, but it's certainly a skill to take with you along the path in the same way learning to drive a car might be a useful skill along the path for certain people.

Kaccāni wrote: That puts Reiki at level with all other illusions that have to be dropped. In my experience it takes people quite long to drop it once it has been taken up. Then it qualifies as bad kamma.

Best wishes
Kc

So long as you have a body and you're breathing, you have reiki, prana, rLung, etc..... you can try and drop it but it could be difficult when you see that it's your own lifeforce energy....You don't need to study Reiki to study your own energy but doing one is doing both regardless of what you happen to call it...And no, energy work is not required in every path of liberation but for those paths where energy and yogic practices are core, surely you can see it's perhaps misguided to negate it with such certainty.

Negate false reiki practioners and the spirtual-capitalist industry by all means if it helps, but you can't negate reiki a synonym for working with prana,rlung etc
[ notably the *Ki* part]

Vasana, do you know many Reiki practitioners? What is your experience with it? Personally, while I don't doubt the sincerity of the practitioners, my experiences indicatr that Reiki (at least as typically encountered here) is spiritual materialism of a high degree. Of course this does not mean there is no validity to the practice, most Hatha Yoga I've seen is terrible too, but I know it has merit as a practice.

One of the most obnoxious things I've enxountered in some corners is an adoption of a pretentious sort of 'i'm a healer' vibe, combined with the idea that a weekend seminar has someone given mastery over energies of the body...often, this coming from massage therapists that seem to eschew the simple, effective techniues they might have learned in school.

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Vasana, do you know many Reiki practitioners? What is your experience with it? Personally, while I don't doubt the sincerity of the practitioners, my experiences indicatr that Reiki (at least as typically encountered here) is spiritual materialism of a high degree. Of course this does not mean there is no validity to the practice, most Hatha Yoga I've seen is terrible too, but I know it has merit as a practice.

One of the most obnoxious things I've enxountered in some corners is an adoption of a pretentious sort of 'i'm a healer' vibe, combined with the idea that a weekend seminar has someone given mastery over energies of the body...often, this coming from massage therapists that seem to eschew the simple, effective techniues they might have learned in school.

I know around 4 or 5 reiki practioners including myself Johnny.

My experience with it is that it helped/helps promote mindfulness of Body (Kāyā) , Sensations/Feelings (Vedanā) , Mind/Consciousness (Cittā) and Mental Contents (Dhammā).

It can quite rapidly and abruptly or very slowly and gently bring to the surface any emotional and psychological imbalances (kleshas ) and provide a platform to minfdfully work through these. For myself it has also helped open up a regular practice of self-compassion which is obviously paramount if we want to be be qualified and able to actually help others.

From my personal experience, i don't believe it is something you can truly 'master' over the course of a seminar. If it takes great yogis decades of practice to master techniques and the internal winds, then it's naive for reiki oractioners to think they are 'master healers' after such a short time. It's a progressive practice that develops over time.

I agree with you that for the most part, there is a lot of spiritual-materialism within the Reiki-industry, seminars and those who charge extortionate fees, but this is something you will find in nearly all spiritual traditions and religions and isn't really exclusive to Reiki, but i can see why Reiki's reputation suffers from this as it is a fairly young system in comparison to older yogic traditions.

As a side note, i received my reiki trainings and attunements (which are kind of like empowerments thru a direct lineage ) all without any cost. There are genuine practitioners out there who don't care for money and will happily provide for free or for some kind of energy exchange, food, a different treatment etc

As for Hatha yoga it's worth mentioning that Ha and tha equate to sun + moon which correspond to inner,outer and secret meanings. The whole purpose of Hatha yoga is to unite the solar and lunar polarities within utilizing asana,kryia, pranayama and so forth. The system of Yantra Yoga which you have probably heard of, involves many Hatha-yoga techniques with many of it's own variations and contributions which were contained within the Nyida Khajor, The Union of Sun and Moon Yantra recorded by Vairocana, 8th century.

If a persons practice involves any Yogic techniqes, Reiki can be a good companion which focuses on the ability to direct prana to different parts of the body and towards other people.
My guess in yogic terms is that the mechanism behind the practice is the harmonization of both your Manomaya/mental-'body' and pranakosha , pranic body.

I just noticed that Khandro Kunzang, who is Lama Dawa's consort and an authorized teacher in his lineage, is also a Reiki master and teaches something called Reiki Jin Kei Do. It would be interesting to hear what she has to say about the relationship between Reiki and Vajrayana.

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've always been skeptical of it not due to it's origins, but due to the fact that people with no real previous training can go to weekend seminars and become "masters". I'm convinced that some level of energy/body work is real..just not from most people who do Reiki. I've felt stuff from acupuncture and qigong, etc. and what felt from Reiki people was just someone putting their hands above me...and that's coming from me, someone who is not even a skeptic on such things.

I used to be a massage therapist, went to massage school etc., and can tell you, as it stands in the US 99.9% of "Reiki masters" are LMP's who went to a weekend seminar, and paid a few hundred bucks to get something else they could add to their credentials.

This is also my feeling on the subject.Its always been bizarre to me how a person can go on a weekend reiki course and become an master. Quite bizzare indeed.

This is mostly because the practitioner does not need to be any kind of special expert or have any kind of special skills, etc. All one needs is "attunement". The "flow of energy" is not dependent on the practitioner but on the reiki energy itself. The practitioner generally does not manipulate the energy, etc. The reiki energy itself is the one who does all the work, not really the practitioner. The practitioner does not need to have "mastery over the energies" of the body. The master of the energy is the energy itself and it does what it needs to do of it's own accord. Although, the practitioner can block the energy, so the practitioner essentially just needs to learn how to "get out of the way", so to speak, so the energy can flow freely and do what it needs to do by itself. One does not need to gain "mastery over the energy", one simply has to stop blocking it. How to not block it, is not all that difficult to learn.

One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Vasana, do you know many Reiki practitioners? What is your experience with it? Personally, while I don't doubt the sincerity of the practitioners, my experiences indicatr that Reiki (at least as typically encountered here) is spiritual materialism of a high degree. Of course this does not mean there is no validity to the practice, most Hatha Yoga I've seen is terrible too, but I know it has merit as a practice.

One of the most obnoxious things I've enxountered in some corners is an adoption of a pretentious sort of 'i'm a healer' vibe, combined with the idea that a weekend seminar has someone given mastery over energies of the body...often, this coming from massage therapists that seem to eschew the simple, effective techniues they might have learned in school.

Reiki was subjected to extensive testing by the U.K. body that monitors all therapeutic interventions offered to the public , the National Institute for Clinical Excellence...because they received requests for it to be included in the range of treatments offered for free at the point of delivery by the National Health Service. To put this into some kind of perspective N.I.C.E a while ago licensed acupuncture to be offered in certain conditions in some circumstances.
In the case of Reiki however, after double blind and other testing it was refused as an NHS treatment as it could not be shown to change the course of any condition.

If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition.
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

So long as you have a body and you're breathing, you have reiki, prana, rLung, etc..... you can try and drop it but it could be difficult when you see that it's your own lifeforce energy....You don't need to study Reiki to study your own energy but doing one is doing both regardless of what you happen to call it...And no, energy work is not required in every path of liberation but for those paths where energy and yogic practices are core, surely you can see it's perhaps misguided to negate it with such certainty.

@Vasana: You are composed of water. So you are Waterist. Don't know what a Waterist is? Well. Let me draft it up real quick. I make the rules, and then you can make a seminar. I will give you a 20% discount, and if you wish, you can get Water-Seed-Syllables that look similar to tibetan letters. Since you cannot escape anyway, as you're composed of water. Your bad if you do not grasp that.

Before Reiki, there was Johrei, from The Church of World Messianity, out of Japan. The founder Meisu-samma, may not be correct spelling, but his revelation was that if he wrote 'Divine Light' on rice paper, the Light would flow through the Ohikari. They channel to each other that way, no special skill involved, but the more you gave and received it, the more powerful it became. We were told that it could never do harm in any way.
This wasn't just for healing, but for purification, they used it on plants, water, food, soil etc.
About the harm part...it caused a massive kundalini awakening in me and almost crippled me.
All the Reiki I've encountered can't hold a candle to Johrei.
The group has a different name now and I think they split up into different groups. And when I was around it in the '70's the daughter of the founder was leading things. And she was very powerful when channeling. But again, unless one was around the group and teachers, just getting blasted and abandoned wasn't a very ethical way to do things.
Just sayin'....without a competent teacher available, things can go South in a hurry.

And why would one allow some unknown energy into one's body to do what it wanted,...I should have asked that question back in the '70's....they were such nice people...

My cat Clinton (1992-2004) had a reaction to a vaccine at 2 yrs and as a result was sick off and on for the rest of his life. I was fortunate to find a holistic vet in the DC area and to have been able to take him there.

At one point, a few years before he died, a vet reiki practitioner came to the clinic and I was asked if I would allow her to evaluate Clinton/perform a session. I did. This lady was quite skilled and beneficial for Clinton. In his case he was primarily treated with acupuncture and homeopathic medicine at this vet clinic. Clinton reacted from this reiki session as if he had undergone an acupuncture treatment (to be clear, he was a perfect subject for acupuncture as he responded very well to it - for him it was the benefits of allopathic medicine without any of the drawbacks). Unfortunately she did not join the staff and I was not able to follow up with her. But she was a real healer.

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

I remember someone asked Akong Rinpoche, who was also a Tibetan Doctor, about Reiki and it's benefits, as they were about to embark on a Reiki 'master' course. AR answer that it was 'about as beneficial as getting your haircut'. They didn't do the course.

Stewart wrote:I remember someone asked Akong Rinpoche, who was also a Tibetan Doctor, about Reiki and it's benefits, as they were about to embark on a Reiki 'master' course. AR answer that it was 'about as beneficial as getting your haircut'. They didn't do the course.

Do you think Rinpoche would say the same thing about practices that work with prana / rLung?

In which case i point you to the earlier posts- Reiki as an industry has many holes no doubt, but underneath all of the nouns, the energy aspect of Reiki,the Ki, is synonymous with the prana and rlung once you actually start working with it beyond the realm of theory.

If someone thinks practising hatha,yantra yoga with pranayama etc is useful and valid but that Reiki is completely not-useful or valid then it's just an argument based within confused semantics along with the shady reputation of the industry & insincere practitioners rather than the energy of Reiki its self.

If you already work with Prana & rlung, or chi & Qi , you're also already working with Reiki.