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I think Pete zombified in the lake is sort of a replacement for the Governor's fish tanks full of zombie heads. He needs to see the face of hunger staring back at him to justify the fact that his own greed is not as bad as that of the zombies

"It was a strange, chilling thought, dancing across his head like a white thread against the - terrible red background. It went on: He can think like you. You must think like him.
But if I think like him, he wins, he thought back.
And his new thought replied: Why? To think like him is not to be him! The hunter learns the ways of the hog, but he is not bacon. He learns the way of the weather, but he is not a cloud. And when the venomous beast charges at him, he remembers who is the hunter, and who is the hunted!"

Yeah, but how the fuck did he kill Pete and drag his zombified body through camp in broad daylight all the way to the pond before he turned and somehow rigged up a ball and chain so Pete could be just under the surface oh what the fuck nothing on this show makes sense anymore.

Yeah, it would have been a big risk, except none of those 30 people returned one shot and his two henchmen just drove off with him. Then one of those henchmen let him back into his group after witnessing the Governor's ridiculous behavior. The Governor gets away with whatever the writers want him to and apparently as a viewer I'm not supposed to question his demi-god powers.

(shrugs) I'm a skeptic by nature. I'm frequently told that I have a problem suspending my disbelief. (my friend frequently tells me to "turn off my brain.") I have no problem with this, to be honest. Those people trusted him, and that was part of why he was able to do what he did. In effect though, it was still a risk in convincing them to go to the prison in the first place. It was rash, risky behavior to kill them all, because it was killing off his army, and his goons could have killed him. In fact, it could have all ended very not-so-well, or just ended, if Martinez had shot him through the truck window. But he didn't, which means Martinez is stupid, and trying to dominate him. Which is a mistake. You don't try to beat or dominate them, but then again, not many people know what they're dealing with to begin with.

Sorry for droning on - anyways,

As for the people in the camp, he'd been with them for a bit and knew their habits. I still think it was totally doable. No one says he immediately moved the body. And it is something a sociopath would do. Just like killing the guy who threatened him taking over (voice of reason) is something a sociopath would do.

So, it just takes a random amount of time for a dead body to turn? In the first season it was less than a minute.

But he didn't, which means Martinez is stupid, and trying to dominate him.

But Martinez isn't stupid. He's only stupid when the writers need him to be.

Also, back to him killing his army. He killed 30 people in one clip. He didn't even reload. They just sucked in bullets like giant magnets.

I'm not doubting that he's a sociopath. I never have. I'm doubting how easily he moves through space and gets away with improbable things, like tracking down Andrea all the way to the prison and somehow capturing her twenty feet from the fence. He keeps her quiet and gets her all the way back to Woodbury how? He walks through the wasteland unscathed while Rick and can't even stay safe in a prison with food growing out of the ground.

The show took a dive when Woodbury came about because the conditions of the zombie apocalypse change every few weeks and the characters do whatever is needed to get the plot to keep moving.

|But Martinez isn't stupid. He's only stupid when the writers need him to be.

And yet I do not find this implausible behavior for people who follow socios around. Seriously, because people are stupid and do try to either beat them and/or support them even after witnessing what they do.

|Also, back to him killing his army. He killed 30 people in one clip. He didn't even reload. They just sucked in bullets like giant magnets.

Ok, and...?

I don't know if you're talking about the bullets and the gun or...they were just townspeople, he's not an effective ruler, and that's why they couldn't take the prison. (He also killed the military guys who could have helped with strategy but would have also just taken his power probably because really, he's not a good leader)

|He keeps her quiet and gets her all the way back to Woodbury how?

Duct tape.

|tracking down Andrea all the way to the prison and somehow capturing her twenty feet from the fence.

Ok, I'll give you that, but I think that was really symbolic. But they all go out and do stuff sometimes, like Hershel and Carl in the woods. I guess to them at this point it's just the luck of the draw. I can't say yeah, it makes sense but sometimes what people do doesn't make sense. Andrea was desperate, that's why she was running through the woods. He was desperate, and running through the woods after her. It is possible they could have made it if the zombies were thronging somewhere else or following Lee Everett's train around.

She almost made it. It made what happened to her worse. :(

I get what you're saying, I do. I just don't seem to have a problem with it. The only thing I did have a problem with was the whole thing with the wrench and the chair and that Andrea kept stopping and staring at Milton. Seriously, you need to get a grip and stop staring at him. It's not going to make anything better, and not going to get you out of the chair any faster.

To me you're basically complaining about someone manipulating their world. Well, duh, it's their world. That's like complaining that George R.R. Martin had Ghost find those arrows which helped save Sam's life. Well, yeah. So?

I watch because this show used to be good and some of the characters are still interesting. The Governor is not interesting at all. His characterization changes every week. His motives change every episode he's in. He is inexplicably trusted by everyone. He does whatever the writers need from him at the moment.

Holy shit, this man speaks so much truth. Glad to see someone else question the short comings of the show like this. Whenever I do it I always get the same replies "Can't people just enjoy a show without having any reasons, just because they like it"... This is response to me questioning the Story, Character Development, Direction, etc. I ask them what is so good right now about any of this and they don't even have a direct answer to explain to me why they even like it... It baffles me. I was a big fan of the show before I enjoyed mostly the first season, the second season had a good second half run and netflix helped through the first half since I didn't have to wait a week through that boring mess. The third season was solid for the first half but sucked any time it was at Woodbury and that second half was absolutely dreadful. A whole season amounted to nothing and the finality of the whole thing was pushed to a fourth season.

Now here we are, season 4. Still on the same unacceptable choices from the showrunners as last season. No redeeming qualities left in any of the characters, boring plots, terrible character development, predictable use of human loss (only those nameless new characters get killed which anyone with half a brain should have seen they would be the ones dying when they brought woodbury in at the end of last season). All the main cast is safe, the Governor is seemingly invincible (which was obvious when he tracked down Andrea and escaped from like 50 zombies) and will obviously be taken down by Rick as some sort of feel good FINALLY moment for the fans watching, even though we ALL know its coming.

Seriously did anyone really believe Glenn would get killed? Or Hershell? or any of the other main cast due to a fucking flu? Hell no. If anything what will happen is the Governor MAY take out a couple of them. There is no tension anymore. The novelty of the zombies has worn off and it is so hard to suspend disbelief when you have someone like Tyrese having a break down in a car SURROUNDED by zombies and gets out all nonchalantly and starts bashing zombies heads in and STILL makes it out alive without even a scratch... Bullshit. These writers just serve up scenarios to fit a weak plot with very little consistency within the world that was created.

How many times can a Zombie realistically sneak up on our seasoned survivors? They are braindead! they have no thought only bloodlust and they moan constantly. It's ridiculous. An example: The Governor + Martinez + Two Military guys this season, they enter into a house (the one with the Murderer sign on the body) but before doing so knock at the front to see if anything is inside, indeed something is but its "stuck", ok so they get inside but now the zombies are all free?? and sneak up on THIS group of guys? fuck off.

I could go on and on. Especially with this current season. For instance, The Governor stumbles across this new family (Lily, etc) in an apartment complex... that they have been in SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE OUTBREAK! yet they are completely safe, so why not clear out each room with zombies and make this your new home? Obviously no one is messing with this place for whatever reason.

Or the Store with the zombies that fall through the ceiling... You are telling me that one little shelf falls and this is what causes mindless zombies to walk over sports perfectly on the roof to make it fall apart? A helicopter smashing into the top wont do it but Humans inside allow the zombies to have hulk smashing abilities to come through the roof? Now you could say "The roof was weakened over time" well... The zombies seem to do nothing but moan and walk around constantly, why didn't they fall before that? Because the writers are just feeding their bullshit plot to make shit happen anyway they can. It's just dumb.

How people don't question so many decisions made on the show I will never know. The show has so much potential and they've squandered it and from what I can tell they have fucked up the source material immensely seeing as every comic reader tells me this.

There is a level of believability one should let slide when watching a show about Zombies but I'm only questioning things because of the world they have created. The world they created at the beginning doesn't seem to follow the rules of the world now.

Of course I'll get the, "if its so bad why watch it, why even talk about it". Again I WAS a big fan through season 2 even with its shortcomings. Id like to see it do better but they just keep making it very difficult, it is so easy for me at least to see all the shortcomings. This and there is nothing else to watch in the fall right now and I want to watch something. I stopped watching for 4 episodes this season and in hopes of it getting better I watched my DVR recordings and its just not very good.

Rant over. I could go on for days about this and pick the shit apart in so many areas but I'm done.

The third season was solid for the first half but sucked any time it was at Woodbury and that second half was absolutely dreadful.

Oh god thank you. I realize we're just agreeing and no one is reading, but the first half of the third season got me excited again. I thought "Holy shit, they're actually exploring what the zombie apocalypse would be like" and then they decided to run away from that and give us an invincible villain. We don't need a bad guy in the zombie apocalypse. The bad guy is survival, death, the bite that turns you into nothingness, and the envy of the dead.

The scene with all the walkers in the mud pit really bothered me because the Governor was trying to leave, but couldn't because those things were in the way, but then later in the episode he was able to drive all the way to prison without any problem. Why didn't he just go that way once he realized the way was blocked?

The mud zombies weren't a physical barrier. They could have gone around.

The mud zombies were a mental barrier.

The governor had a realization at that moment.

He realized - or rather, remembered - that he couldn't keep four other people (including a kid) and himself safe in that world.

Out there, in the dark, in the woods, they'd always be outnumbered. They'd always be hunted. No matter what they did, they'd always just be five people trying to survive. Scratching out an existence scrounging for every grain of rice.

The time, the law of averages, the laws of nature would catch up, slowly but surely.

He saw his future in front of him - and it was in that mud pit, with those walkers. Or in a place very similar to that.

To not just survive, but live, he needs a community. He needs cannon fodder; warm bodies who are expendable (read: not one of the four who were with him) and can be thrown at the walkers (raids, etc.). He needs specialists to grow food, build fortifications, so forth. He needs enough people to keep the camp safe and form a raiding party.

The only way he can see keeping the people he's responsible safe in the way he thinks they deserve is to rebuild Woodbury.

Yeah I don't see how people not get that. OF COURSE there are a thousand different ways he COULD have gone, but what good what it do? Those zombies were more a mental block than physical. The Governor knows what he has to do to survive.

If anything, I'd argue that Rick lost even more because of the way he lost his wife and best friend/brother. Afterwards, he completely lost it, had a few episodes of crazy, then returned from his "abyss".

With this I'd like to mention the Governor clearly didn't take Penny's death well, leaving her chained up as a zombie and keeping her a secret from everyone. People react differently to death than others.

On the point of losing children, Carol and Martinez seem to have gotten over it because they had people to lean on and gain support, while the Guv (and Morgan) were alone in the loss, and lost their minds due to grief. That's my theory on why the Governor is like he is now, also he isn't really right in the head to begin with.

Other than the fact that Rick seems to be an aberration. I'd be willing to bet that most people would lose it and not come back, particularly when you consider that this world has been inherited by the weak.

You have no idea how many people the Governor lost before we met him if we are going to play that card. The Governor is basically what Rick would be if he cast his humanity away further for "the sake of the group".

he just gets away with too much for a non-charismatic psycho. He should have been shot in the back of the head a long time ago. I think its either bad acting or a bad script that makes me feel this way about this character.

I feel like this quote fits into the overall theme of this season and late last season. That theme being "Can a person come back from what they've done?" We've seen Rick comeback after gazing into the abyss, Morgan couldn't come back and Brian Heriot lost a mental battle against the Governor.

Maybe he took the chain from the tank? A tank probably would have some of the gear for if it needed to be pulled out of a spot it got stuck in, and really who is going to be looking for a chain without a specific reason?

Don't know if this is a spoiler I'm not that far in the comics. But I think that last picture is gonna be a trap. I think he will get someone on the doc then push them in the find they can't swim away because they are in the arms of a zombie.