tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post4249651410869432285..comments2016-12-10T03:29:06.834+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Dating the origin of Japanese languages with Bayesian phylogeneticsDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-75758834380490635792011-10-03T01:29:02.830+03:002011-10-03T01:29:02.830+03:00But since there is no language for love, there is ...But since there is no language for love, there is no language for dating too. Saying from my life experience.<br /><br />BTW I found my partner from this cool site.<br /><br />LatinDating.co.ccEmilyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01345810615716709378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70096446732238361292011-05-09T02:02:10.884+03:002011-05-09T02:02:10.884+03:00I simply don&#39;t believe that a mathematical mod...I simply don&#39;t believe that a mathematical model can tell us anything about historical linguistics, too many x&#39;s and y&#39;s are unknowable, and many will be left out entirely.<br /><br />This research is a dead end.Belenoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15576215104931708232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70769112703202226802011-05-07T20:15:48.335+03:002011-05-07T20:15:48.335+03:00Japanese Phonetics?
I always felt Japanese phonet...Japanese Phonetics?<br /><br />I always felt Japanese phonetics in general are more similar to E (M96) populations than to O (M175), is this related to the common ancestry at DE? this is of course assuming that the hunter gatherers survived in enough numbers to influence the modern Japanese at least on the autosomal level.Phttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11032278904656395002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23606205868115072822011-05-06T06:05:53.832+03:002011-05-06T06:05:53.832+03:00&quot;Which Siberian populations would the Japanes...&quot;Which Siberian populations would the Japanese cluster with in terms of their Northeast Asian component (Koryak, Altaic, Central Siberian...)?&quot; <br /><br />I would guess that the &#39;Joman&#39; are a combination of all the immigrants before the Yayoi. This is the normal pattern for immigrants. They are separate for a while but eventually incoming populations are absorbed. In some cases largely replacing the earlier inhabitants in others being absorbed by them. Even the Yayoi are now mixed with the Joman. My guess is that the Yayoi are associated with the arrival of O3 Y-haps.terrythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49997969798904904462011-05-06T00:05:02.106+03:002011-05-06T00:05:02.106+03:00I wonder if the breakdown of the Japanese into Eas...<i>I wonder if the breakdown of the Japanese into East Asian and Northeast Asian components in your earlier Dodecad analysis is representative of the Yayoi and Jomon ancestry respectively.</i><br /><br />I doubt it, although the Northeast Asian component in both Japanese and Koreans does seem to distinguish them from the Chinese and to link them with their distant linguistic Altaic relatives.Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37865139585959932702011-05-05T20:42:58.206+03:002011-05-05T20:42:58.206+03:00Not too impressive. The issue present in the hard...Not too impressive. The issue present in the hard cases for a Baysean model, including Indo-European, is the question of the extent to which there is high speed language change in period of language contact with unrelated languages or language differentiation. Some of the studies show that this is significant, producing shorter time lines.<br /><br />This study, by looking only at language change after that critical interface/differentiation period, is only looking at the easy &quot;genetic drift&quot; period of the Japanese language. Also, the number of calibration points within Japanese language evolution are many, because it was attested very early in its origins in writing, and because the intermedate points took place in the historic era.Andrew Oh-Willekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49738100596023106932011-05-05T17:26:42.594+03:002011-05-05T17:26:42.594+03:00@maho
You may be right about the patterns you see...@maho<br /><br />You may be right about the patterns you see and the conclusions you come up with but even I have noticed how the components change from run to run so don&#39;t let the consistent name (such as northeast Asian&quot; fool you. <br /><br />Also in two of dienekes recent west Eurasian structure runs, one here and the other at dodcode, the British and the Irish had different relative amounts of NE European. (Actually I can&#39;t even remember if they we at different k lvls... which could defeat what I&#39;m saying). In one run the British had more NE and in the other run they had the same. <br /><br />I wont expand since I don&#39;t know enough but that just what I noticed.<br /><br />I also would love to have the answers your seeking. I also hope they will expand this study to look at the Japanese language in the context of NE and E Asian languages, especially Korean.princenuadhahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73093700002859383232011-05-05T12:14:32.241+03:002011-05-05T12:14:32.241+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Andréshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06511926890557189618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-16853629149687313112011-05-05T07:59:11.523+03:002011-05-05T07:59:11.523+03:00Dienekes,
Thanks for the post, very interesting!
...Dienekes,<br />Thanks for the post, very interesting! <br /><br />I wonder if the breakdown of the Japanese into East Asian and Northeast Asian components in your earlier Dodecad analysis is representative of the Yayoi and Jomon ancestry respectively. The Northeast Asian component is much smaller, ranging from 6 to 15% in the sample. It also seems to decrease from the northeast to the southwest of Honshu, which is probably consistent with the Yayoi settlement path. But obviously we have a very small Dodecad Japanese sample to make any strong conclusions. <br /><br />I hope you are planning to do another analysis of East-Asian and Siberian populations, as you did last November, but now with the HapMap-3 Japanese sample and the Dodecad members. Hopefully that can shed some light on the origin of the Jomon. Which Siberian populations would the Japanese cluster with in terms of their Northeast Asian component (Koryak, Altaic, Central Siberian...)?Mahohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05232491573910987670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-51913414532604823572011-05-05T06:40:17.727+03:002011-05-05T06:40:17.727+03:00&quot;Researchers studying the various dialects of...&quot;Researchers studying the various dialects of Japanese have concluded that all are descended from a founding language taken to the Japanese islands about 2,200 years ago&quot;. <br /><br />Hasn&#39;t that been generally accepted for the last 40-50 years?terrythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-60700932912741248512011-05-05T04:00:49.663+03:002011-05-05T04:00:49.663+03:00I work a lot on reconstructing last common linguis...I work a lot on reconstructing last common linguistic ancestors from dialect sets and it is quite tricky. It is easy to assign derived traits to the ancestor and to end up with chronologies that are too short. So I would be cautious in accepting the dating here.Charles Nydorfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16291667302870991631noreply@blogger.com