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Topic: 2013 Trans Am Nationals (Read 7562 times)

I've elected to start a new thread as I wanted to avoid hijacking the 2012 POCI Nat's thread with this discussion. I felt posts like these necessitated a reply to help assuage any confusion and rumor about next year's events in Dayton. Due to the fact that these events are a year off and there is sure to be discussion, I ask Mods to consider making this a sticky thread. Thanks!

Doubt you'd get the co-vention and TA Nats. on the same weekend. The Nats. folks wouldn't move it from their traditional weakend, I'd guess.

The T/A Nat's committee was approached regarding both conventions and declined to participate for a number of reasons. Here they are in no particular order:

* Participation - T/A Nat's has consistently attracted over 400 cars every year. Last year, 60 participants were first-timers - an important factor since Firebird has been out of production for ten years and Pontiac for three. Believe me, we were expecting participation to dwindle when Firebird went away, but the opposite has happened. The absence of new cars has galvanized enthusiasts' resolve to preserve and celebrate all Firebirds. It doesn't hurt that the companies doing Camaro conversions use the T/A Nat's to unveil their designs, either - that has been mutually beneficial for both. Registration is running about even with last year, so barring a monsoon, $6.00 gas, nuclear attack or Armageddon, we should have another 400+ cars this year. When you consider that GTOAA averages about 350 cars (notable exceptions being Indy Motor Speedway, '93, Detroit, '04 and Dayton, '09), we are holding our own as a single make, single model car show.

* Participant interest - I just attended POCI and had a great time, but with 800+ cars, there was no time to see them all and chat with owners (which is the part of any car show I enjoy the most because I LEARN stuff! ), so I think the only benefit to hosting a 1,200 car meet is to say you attracted 1,200 cars. Are people really going to spend $110/night times five nights to stay Tuesday-Saturday to see & do it all? I can't afford that - even with hotel points. Even for those who stay the whole time, are you going to walk up & down every row in 90+ heat for five days? Probably not. I think people will stay pretty close to thier area of interest - not that folks don't mull around the lot, but depending on their level of interest, weather and other activities, I see more - "Oh, that's nice" and move on than anything. I think once a show gets that big, the size becomes a disadvantage for anything other than advertising purposes.

* Competition. We are fortunate that there are more Pontiac events than ever through each show season. Since Pontiac has been cut, several events have been changed to welcome all Pontiac models, which is just fine for those events. Off the top of my head, I can come up with six national Pontiac events held each year: Pontiac Heaven, Pigeon Forge, GTOAA Nat's, POCI, Norwalk & T/A Nat's. Then add the regional events: F-Body in Atlanta, Englishtown, Saratoga, POCI-GP Fall Pontiac show, etc. Now sprinkle in your local cruises, shows & events. You could conceivably do a car show every weekend from April through November, 2/3 of them being dedicated to Pontiacs. With two major national events happening in our backyard in '13 (Co-Vention in mid-July and Norwalk two weeks later), keeping our mission as the pre-eminent Firebird gathering only makes sense for enthusiasts of that model. I've heard some critical comments about T/A Nat's along the lines of - "Why do you only want Firebirds? They all look the same." This is the kind of thing that is said by someone who doesn't know or appreciate Firebirds and the reason our event is stronger on its own. For those of us that appreciate Firebirds, we enjoy sharing stories, experiences & advice on these cars and it's nice for those who are new to the Firebird hobby to have a single place to gather parts, information and meet like-minded Firebird enthusiasts. We would also not be able to do Tipp City - can you imagine if 600 cars showed up? I believe T/A Nat's would be at best - dilluted - among 1,100 other Pontiacs at the Nutter Center.

* Planning - Trans Am Nationals is firmly established at the end of August in Dayton, OH, making planning very simple for participants. Everybody knows where and when it will be held. Dayton, OH is within 12 hours' driving distance of something like 82% of the U.S. population. Would the Marriott welcome us back if we skipped a year? Sure they would. But having a big empty hole on the calendar in late August would suck for a lot of us.

* Variety - I own five Pontiacs: 2 'Birds, a Grand Safari wagon, Grand Prix GTP & a Solstice. I take a 'Bird to the T/A Nat's, and like to mix it up with other all-Pontiac shows. My goal is to take each car to a different event. I don't take the T/A to POCI because I have three other Pontiacs. When I have, it's gotten little attention. When I've taken the wagon or my GP, those cars got a lot of attention. I'm not talking about awards here - the T/A trophied in Bowling Green. Like I said, I attend shows to enjoy and learn about the cars. Notice that I was able to include a caption for every photo I posted earlier in this thread - it's because the car intrigued me and I sought out it's owner for information.

I think the best approach is for those who wish to see more Firebirds at the '13 Co-Vention is to show their Firebirds at the '13 Co-Vention. I am also strongly suggesting that TACA Dayton members support the event by registering their cars and volunteering to work the event (as many POCI & OVGTOA members do for T/A Nat's). We all need to support the hobby, but I think it's also important for us as Pontiac hobbyists to appreciate the things that make each event unique. Norwalk is an unparalelled event for drag-racing & swap meet, POCI attracts Pontiacs you will see nowhere else ('75 Astre wagon - had gawkers around it all weekend), and GTOAA and T/A Nat's are celebrations of two of Pontiac's most successful models. Maybe it's beneficial for GTOAA to combine efforts with POCI since they, too move around. As long as T/A Nat's maintains solid participation in Dayton in late August, we intend to stay the course and not "fix" what ain't "broke".

I do not want this post to be misunderstood as a rant against the Co-Vention or as me being a stuck-up T/A Nat's guy. Anyone who reads that into this is perceiving my position incorrectly. I've been a POCI member longer than I've been a T/A Nat's committee member and I actively participate in events held by both clubs. I appreciate the policies and approach of each to the Pontiac hobby and volunteer my time and money to support the events hosted by both. As the unofficial T/A Nat's PR guy, my purpose in posting this is to snuff out rumor & speculation about why TACA Dayton is not combining T/A Nat's with the '13 Co-Vention. I have taken no offense to any of the comments posted here and do not mean any with my comments. If anyone wishes to pm me with any further questions, please feel free to do so.

Scott, I could not agree more. Having some giant POCI/GTOAA/TA NATS show sounds good but when you really think about it, its just too much to see/do. Kinda like being locked in a room full of hookers for a week!

If I remember right the last time they wanted the shows together you had to join POIC to get in ? Therefore you would have to enter both shows and I think join POIC ? I could be wrong you know how us old peopleminds are.

Scott, I could not agree more. Having some giant POCI/GTOAA/TA NATS show sounds good but when you really think about it, its just too much to see/do. Kinda like being locked in a room full of hookers for a week!

If I remember right the last time they wanted the shows together you had to join POIC to get in ? Therefore you would have to enter both shows and I think join POIC ? I could be wrong you know how us old peopleminds are.

Scott, I can't speak for what the POCI required when the discussion was held between the POCI and T/A Nats.But I can tell you that the Co-vention in 09 if you were a member of either group GTOAA or POCI was suffficient. If not than you had to join the POCI in order to display a car. Of course thats no different than paying an entrance fee! So I really didn't think too much of it. In fact I have kept my membership current since.

Scott, I could not agree more. Having some giant POCI/GTOAA/TA NATS show sounds good but when you really think about it, its just too much to see/do. Kinda like being locked in a room full of hookers for a week!

Scott, I could not agree more. Having some giant POCI/GTOAA/TA NATS show sounds good but when you really think about it, its just too much to see/do. Kinda like being locked in a room full of hookers for a week!

Sounds like experience talking!

Sounds like I need a cigerrete,and I quite 5 yrs ago

Nah, no experience there. Like most of us here(middle age) there was a time that sounded like fun....now it sounds like work!

Getting back to topic, keeping the Nats a stand alone event is the right thing to do. Actually the GTOAA should maintain a separate show from POCI, this ensures multiple Pontiac shows throughout the year. If ya like goats....good, If ya like birds....good, If ya like'em all...POCI convention.

Scott, I could not agree more. Having some giant POCI/GTOAA/TA NATS show sounds good but when you really think about it, its just too much to see/do. Kinda like being locked in a room full of hookers for a week!

I'm glad to hear you are all supportive of our decision to keep T/A Nat's a stand alone show. Not that things might not change in the future, but right now, we just don't see any benefit to our club or show to switch dates or venues. I believe if we did, the benefit would primarily go to POCI (more members, bigger event, more bragging rights, more help, more help paying for Nutter Center...).

It's been argued that making it a "Tri-vention" shows a stronger Pontiac hobby by having a single show with the potential to attract over 1,500 cars. That's great for vendors, but I feel we present a stronger presence by having more single-model Pontiac shows spread out across the calendar. As I told Don Keefe yesterday, those of us under 50 will be the 80 year old guys driving our 4th gens. to 'orphan' shows where there will be 15 Pontiacs parked on the back row between the 5 Oldsmobiles and 8 Plymouths. For now, as each event is able to attract sufficient participation, consolidation may be a bit premature.

norwood

I think ( as if anyone cares) that the T/A nats numbers were down this year and will be down more next year. With the POCI and GTOAA jouning up to put on a covention in Dayton, me and others need to decide which to attend and I'm pretty sure which will win.

norwood

. I truly don't know the numbers but they were down from my last visit to the Nats in 2010, But I enjoyed this trip much more. I would like to commend who ever brought in Bill Porter and Ben Harrison.

At this years Nat's I hung out and talk with some of the Pontiac forum Rock Stars ,Did the Tipp City Cruise, saw lots of GREAT cars, had a bunch of beverages. With all the cool stuff going on I never would have thought that listening to Bill Porter and Ben Harrison would be the HIGHLITE of the weekend for me. When I first got thru tech where basically the guy asked me what class my car should be in, an Older gentleman came over and was looking at my car and asking a few questions. It was pretty dirty from a trip thru a cornfield driving the back roads of Indiana on the way down so I was busy cleaning it and really did not pay much attention to him, MY MISTAKE. I learned later that this man was Ben Harrison. Just before leaving for home on Sunday a few of us had the opportunity to basically listen to Mr Porter and Mr Harrison having a conversation about the old days at Pontiac and GM. The two of them just kept playing off each other and the stories just kept coming. One would tell a story and that would jog the memory of the other. I feel they could have kept telling them forever. I learned a lot from just listening to them and was highly entertained. Two better guys I'm not sure could have been brought in. A big thanks to whoever was able to bring the two of them to the show. I wish that when Ben Harrison first spoke to me I would have given him my full attention.

I am not sure how many cars we had registered, but I was #363. I had to miss the actual seminars (my loss) but had a fun time just listening to Bill Porter in the lobby. Someday I would like to see video of all the cool seminars I missed.

You're welcome, guys - Bill & Ben are great people (their families, too!) and it was almost painful for me to limit their time at the podium so we could get to Tipp. I'm glad you had the opportunity to listen in on some of their conversations. What I learned this weekend is that GM intentionally isolated different departments from each other (probably for industry secrecy in case anybody left the company). Both men worked on things but didn't know how those things related because they didn't know what was going on in other departments - they made a lot of connections over the weekend.

Ben & Bill have both expressed interest in coming to the POCI/GTOA CoVention next year and I have comitted to help facilitate their appearance there.

I have videotaped all of the saturday seminars, but am still working on getting my video editing system set up. I will offer DVD's for sale and donate part of the proceeds to Special Wish once I have them available.

norwood

Me TOO Joe. Maybe some one made a video of it and can post it for those of us that missed it.

And Norwood, was that your blue 70 in the stock class next to the hotel? NICE car.They where all nice.

Yes that was my 70 parked next to the BREWSTER Green 73 SD of TAC member Brian Hoffeller. I always park by Brian so when the Magazine guys take pictures of his car that maybe my fender gets in. This time the magazine guy asked him to move it so the blue 70 would not be in the picture (I'm not kidding). BUt with that aside I hope that all of you got a chance to check out Brians car, it is one of the finest out there in the ($$$$ don't matter) B stock class. If Brian ever would have it judged he would in my opinion run away from the rest of the field.

Tony if I knew you were there I would have loved to get your White together with my Blue for a photo. Next time for sure..

Logged

norwood

You're welcome, guys - Bill & Ben are great people (their families, too!) and it was almost painful for me to limit their time at the podium so we could get to Tipp. I'm glad you had the opportunity to listen in on some of their conversations. What I learned this weekend is that GM intentionally isolated different departments from each other (probably for industry secrecy in case anybody left the company). Both men worked on things but didn't know how those things related because they didn't know what was going on in other departments - they made a lot of connections over the weekend.

Ben & Bill have both expressed interest in coming to the POCI/GTOA CoVention next year and I have comitted to help facilitate their appearance there.

I have videotaped all of the saturday seminars, but am still working on getting my video editing system set up. I will offer DVD's for sale and donate part of the proceeds to Special Wish once I have them available.

As good as their seminars were they were nothing compared to just having conversation with these two.

Me TOO Joe. Maybe some one made a video of it and can post it for those of us that missed it.

And Norwood, was that your blue 70 in the stock class next to the hotel? NICE car.They where all nice.

Yes that was my 70 parked next to the BREWSTER Green 73 SD of TAC member Brian Hoffeller. I always park by Brian so when the Magazine guys take pictures of his car that maybe my fender gets in. This time the magazine guy asked him to move it so the blue 70 would not be in the picture (I'm not kidding). BUt with that aside I hope that all of you got a chance to check out Brians car, it is one of the finest out there in the ($$$$ don't matter) B stock class. If Brian ever would have it judged he would in my opinion run away from the rest of the field.

Tony if I knew you were there I would have loved to get your White together with my Blue for a photo. Next time for sure..

Your car wasn't as clean as Brew's

Logged

Fire or Keith

“If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember anything.”-Mark Twain

I'll second Norwwod's comment( thought he was younger), I had breakfast Saturday morning next to Mr. Porter and his wife. VERY nice people. Bill was ratteling off one story after another while we were eating. All these guests that Scott is finding, are very honored, that 40 years later, we love hearing from them.

Me TOO Joe. Maybe some one made a video of it and can post it for those of us that missed it.

And Norwood, was that your blue 70 in the stock class next to the hotel? NICE car.They where all nice.

Yes that was my 70 parked next to the BREWSTER Green 73 SD of TAC member Brian Hoffeller. I always park by Brian so when the Magazine guys take pictures of his car that maybe my fender gets in. This time the magazine guy asked him to move it so the blue 70 would not be in the picture (I'm not kidding). BUt with that aside I hope that all of you got a chance to check out Brians car, it is one of the finest out there in the ($$$$ don't matter) B stock class. If Brian ever would have it judged he would in my opinion run away from the rest of the field.

Tony if I knew you were there I would have loved to get your White together with my Blue for a photo. Next time for sure..

That is a great pic of yours and Brians cars,..........did you guys park them in Handi-Capped after a few "adult" beverages?????

You're welcome, guys - Bill & Ben are great people (their families, too!) and it was almost painful for me to limit their time at the podium so we could get to Tipp. I'm glad you had the opportunity to listen in on some of their conversations. What I learned this weekend is that GM intentionally isolated different departments from each other (probably for industry secrecy in case anybody left the company). Both men worked on things but didn't know how those things related because they didn't know what was going on in other departments - they made a lot of connections over the weekend.

Ben & Bill have both expressed interest in coming to the POCI/GTOA CoVention next year and I have comitted to help facilitate their appearance there.

I have videotaped all of the saturday seminars, but am still working on getting my video editing system set up. I will offer DVD's for sale and donate part of the proceeds to Special Wish once I have them available.

As good as their seminars were they were nothing compared to just having conversation with these two.

Saturday night, despite the fact that I was about to fall over from exhaustion, I strained myself to stay awake and listen to these two men share experiences. At 11:00, I was about to fall over and had to get some sleep, but I told them I wasn't going to put together any more slide shows, but rather set up a mic'ed round table, put Bill, Ben and four or so other colleagues around it and let them go for it. They didn't like that idea since their conversation was very honest about certain people within GM who killed a lot of great ideas. Apparently, GM retirees can potentially lose their pension if they are quoted as being negative toward the corporation, management, or policies. There is actually a department that screens this (talk about Big Brother) in industry & enthusiast publications, videos & websites. As you maight have noticed, the seminars are very non-political, but the private conversations are quite, ahem, honest...

Norwood. Next year. I'm planning on the 2 events in Dayton next summer. Maybe I'll get the '70 freshened enough to be respectable. My son seems to have all my time planned for his car for the next couple of years.

And yes Brian's car is amazing, the only word to describe it. I have loved that car from the 1st time I saw it a few years ago.

Funny event w/ Bill. the GF & I were in the elevator and this nice old man enjoying an ice cream sandwich was in there with us. Had trouble getting the 6th floor button to work so I showed him how. Had small talk and we got off on our floor. GF said she wanted to take the cute old guy home... not in that way. didnt realize who he was until later.