I also have a CosmosEx and I want to buy another (or two).The idea of showing again the interest in the device again was to reflect on the need for a new production, made by Jookie or by some other guru.The information has reached those who should know (initially), but so far there is no response.We are still in limbo...

alexh wrote:I don't think Jookie can make any more himself due to the changes in European law surrounding electronics manufacture, it's just too expensive.

Do you know what changes to the law are involved? I know you need CE compliance since 1996 to sell in Europe, in addition to being RoHS.

This is something I will have to deal with when my MIDI expander project is complete. The cheapest I could find for a CE compliance test was about £1000 for a SELV device which is an unintentional radiator. That may or may not be worth it depending on how many units I can sell. The problem is if I can't pass the test first time, it can get extremely expensive. Plan B is to break the law and never disclose my postal address to avoid getting caught. I think this would worry a lot of potential customers though!

I'm interested in learning about other loopholes. I think selling as a kit is one option, but I don't know if pre-assembled or nearly-assembled kits count. I know that selling kits is illegal in the US, so that rules that market out. Another loophole applies when you sell a "sub-assembly," but what little information about this I could find is very grey and unclear. The Amiga Vampire accelerator appears to be CE compliant, which surprises me because surely that's the closest definition of a sub-assembly? Since my device attaches to the printer port, I think it would be very difficult to pass it off as a sub-assembly. Unless perhaps the user has to provide their own metal case and I/O sockets (with EMI filters).

I believe there's another loophole which applies if you're not a business. You can apparently sell electronic devices as an individual without complying with CE - which is why it's legal to sell used electronics on eBay. I don't know at which point you become a business, perhaps promoting your products would be a red flag. The laws in the US are tighter, IIRC FCC requires that you build no more than 5 devices - even for personal use that never leave your home. Land of the free indeed.

I don't think RoHS poses me any special problems. Just about all components and board houses are RoHS these days. I don't know much about the recent WEEE requirements. I don't plan to include a mains power supply, so hopefully I can avoid the low voltage directive.

It seems absurd that add-ons for old computers need to pass CE/FCC. In many cases, the computers themselves wouldn't pass a modern CE/FCC test anyway! And without the computer, the device is useless. Before 1996, pretty much everything sold in the UK had no EMI shielding whatsoever.

How does Lotharek get around the CE requirement? Does he actually submit devices for CE compliance?

Due to the wording, even supplying a single part along with a PCB and instructions is enough to break the law - even if the builder has to supply the rest of the parts themselves. I think selling a PCB without any parts is probably legal, but it doesn't specifically address that.

The rationale for applying such laws to kits is easy enough to understand. If the kit is intended to be assembled and used, then it needs to comply just the same as a pre-manufactured product does. The main exception is with sub-assemblies - because they're intended to be incorporated into another product which is then tested for compliance by the final manufacturer.

These kinds of laws are so unfairly restrictive for small businesses. It's no wonder so many small electronics businesses closed down when CE came in.

The FCC appear to be somewhat lenient towards violaters. The vast majority of cases they've brought against people have been for selling illegal transmitters. There are a handful of cases where they have fined people building and selling computers - but the fines are typically small ($10k and often less). The only real exception I've been able to find was when they hit Behringer with a million dollar fine for importing unintentional radiators which weren't FCC compliant. In this case the fine was proportional to their revenue.

Unfortunately the situation in the UK appears to be worse. At least one person has been sent to jail for building and selling computers on a very small scale (local computer shop).

leech wrote:Wait, for just putting components in a computer themselves and selling them, they were sent to jail? Or you mean something like the 1088XEL, where it's a bunch of parts that are assembled by hand.

That's pretty ridiculous either way.

As far as I understand, they were assembling IBM compatibles into already manufactured cases - they simply screwed the motherboard, power supply and cards into a pre-manufactured case. The person in question was under the impression that because all of the component parts were labelled CE, the resulting product would be compliant too. Sadly, that isn't the case - when combining multiple modules together you always need to have the finished product tested.

I don't know if it's better to label a product CE without testing it, or just put it on the market without a CE mark. You could go to jail either way, but at least the former might delay being caught.

I'm amazed that companies like Tindie can stay in business without the owners being sent to jail. The vast majority of products listed on that site are illegal.

Wow, I've been building every computer that way since after the first Windows 95 computer I got. I started the upgrade path for that piece of crap and eventually just had enough components to build my own.

Granted I never tried to turn around and sell them, but that just sounds insane. Talk about corporations trying to stomp on the little guy.