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Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Political correctness is the position of being excessively careful not to offend any group of people in society who are believed to have a disadvantage. So, in this definition, it's definitely associated with public pressure to limit freedom of expression to an uncommonly high standard. The problems begin to arise when the public opinion and standard, don't meet with realistic expectations, and where the punishment is overly severe because of group self righteousness.

PC is more about appearances and phony hypocrisy than about reality.

Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

There are times when society should be more polite/politically correct, but for each example of that, there are many examples of people who simply want to be offended so they can rationalize saying bad things about innocent people.

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Originally Posted by grip

Political correctness is the position of being excessively careful not to offend any group of people in society who are believed to have a disadvantage. So, in this definition, it's definitely associated with public pressure to limit freedom of expression to an uncommonly high standard. The problems begin to arise when the public opinion and standard, don't meet with realistic expectations, and where the punishment is overly severe because of group self righteousness.

PC is more about appearances and phony hypocrisy than about reality.

1. Who defines what is "excessive", "realistic", "overly severe", and "self righteous"? Every individual decides that for themselves. Because of that, this concept of "political correctness" you speak of is not a fact. It is a theory. It is a theory that neither you nor any of its proponents have been able to successfully defend to the point of reversing behavior. In that sense, it is also a failed theory.

2. You say that there is pressure to limit freedom of expression to "an uncommonly high standard." Whose freedom are you speaking about? I ask because, until recently, it was a common standard to limit the freedom of people of color, women, same-sex couples and other marginalized groups to the point that they would be jailed, assaulted or murdered for simply looking at the wrong person. Efforts that are criticized as "politically correct" don't, as a rule, want that to happen so, unless you're being hyperbolic, you're argument doesn't hold water.

3. You also say that "public opinion and standard don't meet with realistic expectations." What expectations are you talking about here? From what I see, those who are denigrated as "politically correct" usually expect an increase in the amount of respect paid to them by society. The expectations have been met pretty regularly despite being insulted by people like you.

Ultimately, this theory of political correctness does nothing more than favor privilege over marginalization. The people who complain about "political correctness" are usually right-leaning white people, men or straight people who are uncomfortable with attempts by people of color, women and gay people to influence the language that society uses to speak about them.

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat

Some things are offensive regardless of their context. Like most people, I say things sometimes that some might consider offensive, but I don't bitch about the "PC Culture" or "PC Police" if someone is offended by it.

Well, I suppose that could be true, that some things are offensive regardless.

However, when the context is a complete fabrication of the truth, it becomes a weapon, which is a problem. That is where we are today, and those who participate in the intellectually vacant effort should be ashamed.

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Originally Posted by grip

Political correctness is the position of being excessively careful not to offend any group of people in society who are believed to have a disadvantage. So, in this definition, it's definitely associated with public pressure to limit freedom of expression to an uncommonly high standard. The problems begin to arise when the public opinion and standard, don't meet with realistic expectations, and where the punishment is overly severe because of group self righteousness.

PC is more about appearances and phony hypocrisy than about reality.

Oh yeah....

Here's an example. In this city 'causes' as in not for profit enterprises are allowed to buy permits to stand on the street and hawk their cause. Most are lefty crap, some **** about "I'm a Girl" and always some environmental outfit. I call it guerrilla marketing and it's rude. They are usually obnoxious, will yell at you across the sidewalk etc.

They have that right?

So, when called on by this dude, I engaged. "Are you are seeking my attention for the purposes of a dialogue?" "Yes, are you familiar.....?"
"No, and I do not give a fiddler's ****. I am here to dialogue about the fact you hit on me in a rude and offensive fashion. Let us deal with that."
The "conversation" soon became heightened as this rude young woman took offense at the words "hit on" as she saw it as a sexual reference. Her issue was that her offense to me mattered not because she had a permit and I was sexist.

My reply as I called city hall to report an abuse of their license was "there is no ****ing law in the world that gives you any rights more than a slithering slug to not be offended. I have freedom of speech and I exercise it now to say that your career was a low life guerrila marketer is about to be ended."

Interestingly they are an outfit pushing fair treatment of women in the workplace, one of the biggest PC outfits around. What is politically correct in standing on a sidewalk and yelling at passersby?

Americans can always be counted on doing the right thing...after they have tried everything else." Winston Churchill.

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Originally Posted by americanwoman

Does it bother you if I say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas?

You can say what you want. Unlike those who get their panties in a wad when someone say Merry Christman, I don't care what you say or if you say anything at all. What I do care about is when those that get butt hurt hearing the word Christmas make an effort to have it where it can't or shouldn't be said. They are the ones I don't have a problem offending.

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

I have been a fed at some level or other since 1980. Every Christmas I probably say Merry Chirstmas a thousnd times, so do the math, geeze probably 34,000 times. Not once has someone said anything about it. Not once, not anywhere, not ever. Who is it that really, in real life has a problem with this?

Originally Posted by Conservative65

You can say what you want. Unlike those who get their panties in a wad when someone say Merry Christman, I don't care what you say or if you say anything at all. What I do care about is when those that get butt hurt hearing the word Christmas make an effort to have it where it can't or shouldn't be said. They are the ones I don't have a problem offending.

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Interesting what you can learn from what some people might call a dumbass redneck over a drink or two. From what I've seen, most of them are just regular people, at heart.

They just didn't grow up in leafy suburbs, with Mummy boasting to everyone about how they were only four, but already were learning French from flash cards and had a taste for Camembert. And Daddy wasn't asking them if they'd rather have the BMW or the trip to Europe as a high school graduation present. More likely, they grew up eating fried baloney sandwiches and wondering if they'd get swatted after Daddy had had a few.

It's not saying considerate things that bothers me. We should all do that. It's self-righteous control freaks who want to coerce other people into not saying inconsiderate things that bothers me. I don't like the fact some people have bigoted views, either--but God damn it all, I will always defend their right to have them. We don't punish thoughts in this county, and within broad limits, we don't punish unpopular speech, either.

The way for fair people to deal with bigots is not to make up a bunch of coercive rules about what they can and can't say. It's to try to reason with them, first--and if that fails, to refuse to talk with them, or have anything to do with them. Ostracism can be a very effective moral sanction.

Reasoning with people and then avoiding them (or boycotting if it is a business) is all that is done or advocated in the USA outside of the workplace. At work and within institutions people are required to treat their co-workers, clients and vendors respectfully, to avoid conflicts and lawsuits among many other good reasons. That is all so-called 'political correctness' is doing, but it is still enough to make some people feel oppressed. It is a bogus right-wing media generated issue intended to get gullible people outraged and improve ratings so advertising rates can be increased.

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Originally Posted by mak2

I have been a fed at some level or other since 1980. Every Christmas I probably say Merry Chirstmas a thousnd times, so do the math, geeze probably 34,000 times. Not once has someone said anything about it. Not once, not anywhere, not ever. Who is it that really, in real life has a problem with this?

While it may not be specifically Merry Christmas, there are plenty of examples where things have been done related to the religion associated with Christmas:

Re: "Politcal Correctness" - False Victim hood or Real issue.

Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive

1. Who defines what is "excessive", "realistic", "overly severe", and "self righteous"? Every individual decides that for themselves. Because of that, this concept of "political correctness" you speak of is not a fact. It is a theory. It is a theory that neither you nor any of its proponents have been able to successfully defend to the point of reversing behavior. In that sense, it is also a failed theory.

2. You say that there is pressure to limit freedom of expression to "an uncommonly high standard." Whose freedom are you speaking about? I ask because, until recently, it was a common standard to limit the freedom of people of color, women, same-sex couples and other marginalized groups to the point that they would be jailed, assaulted or murdered for simply looking at the wrong person. Efforts that are criticized as "politically correct" don't, as a rule, want that to happen so, unless you're being hyperbolic, you're argument doesn't hold water.

3. You also say that "public opinion and standard don't meet with realistic expectations." What expectations are you talking about here? From what I see, those who are denigrated as "politically correct" usually expect an increase in the amount of respect paid to them by society. The expectations have been met pretty regularly despite being insulted by people like you.

Ultimately, this theory of political correctness does nothing more than favor privilege over marginalization. The people who complain about "political correctness" are usually right-leaning white people, men or straight people who are uncomfortable with attempts by people of color, women and gay people to influence the language that society uses to speak about them.

I think we have a perfect definition of political correctness within your post "attempts by minorities and/or oppressed or marginalized people to influence the language that society uses to speak about them."