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A few thoughts, Gerry Adams is a cunt, he was and is despised by the hard core of the IRA tha actually did the fighting for his denying he was ever in..

Would admitting it have landed him in prison? From what I read, it's a locking up offence to be a member of the IRA or other subversive groups. It was probably okay for McGuinness to admit it as he had apparently already done his time for membership.

This displays a lack of understanding of the situation in Northern Ireland. Paramilitary groups such as the IRA and UDA aren't protest groups like PETA, or Special Snowflakes Against Trump. They are terrorist organisations run along military lines. You don't just turn up at a meeting, sign a petition, chuck 50p in the tin and you're in.

To the communities they claim to protect, they serve as judge, jury, executioner. You're more likely to fall foul of them than be invited to join them. Being disaffected wouldn't be nearly enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grants70

I'm not talking about outsiders. As I said in a previous post: "If I'd grown up there as one of the disadvantaged, I'd probably have joined the fight against the establishment."

__________________

Fist is a four letter word. So is fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, fist fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, and, well you get the fist-fucking picture....

THE WESTCOUNTRY SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Yay! It's pink!

Don't think.... FEEL!

We're Englishmen, and we came here, to rape your women and drink your beer.

I went back in time and voted for Hitler.

Pouring oil on troubled waters since 2008. Then lighting a fucking match.

I'm not talking about outsiders. As I said in a previous post: "If I'd grown up there as one of the disadvantaged, I'd probably have joined the fight against the establishment."

Ok, if you had grown up there, then yeah, it's possible. You would have had a fair idea of who to approach, and the local volunteers would have known you or your family since childhood. But actually getting sworn in was far from a sure thing.

The IRA had a surprisingly effective intelligence network, there would have been a vetting process. If accepted most likely you would been given very very low level tasks, more or less an errand boy. You don't get a ski mask and an Armalite and get pointed toward the nearest RUC barracks.

IRA membership was never very large, it didn't need to be. The number who were actually involved in operations was smaller yet. In the latter years of the troubles the IRA had moved away from their traditional military organization of brigades, battalions and companies to more of a cell structure. No one knew more than 5 or 6 other members. The change was brought on by increasingly effective British penetration of the organization.

Would admitting it have landed him in prison? From what I read, it's a locking up offence to be a member of the IRA or other subversive groups. It was probably okay for McGuinness to admit it as he had apparently already done his time for membership.

Current membership in the what remains of the IRA is still a crime, on both sides of the border. Admitting his former role wouldn't subject Adams to any legal liability. A number of former high ranking IRA leaders have admitted their roles, some with remorse, some defiantly so. Adams was always more of a politician with an eye on his future career.

One persistent theory on why he won't own up to his past is that he directed one of the most infamously botched IRA operations of the entire struggle. A woman was dragged from her home in front of her children and later executed as a British informer. While no one really knows for certain, later evidence cast grave doubts on the claim she was a British spy. Adams denies any involvement, but its widely accepted that he gave the orders.

Sounds like a real mess over there. I thought the Middle East was a complicated deal, but Ireland seems just as hard to fix. That's why I don't get involved in discussions about politics in other countries, as it is I barely understand how they work in the USA!

Northern Ireland is sort of fixed, although Brexit could have blown that door wide open. The province is now largely peaceful. One thing McGuinness can be credited with is ending the policy of no co-operation with security services in nationalist areas. This basically means you can now report your car stolen and not get a beating. It also means that if you steal a car you are more likely to get arrested than get your knee caps shot off.

So we now have the Continuity IRA, and the "real" IRA, splinter groups that have refused to give up the fight. They seem mostly concerned with murdering Catholic police and prison officers. Most likely they're the ones that benefit least from peace, gangster types that see no benefit in a peaceful and law abiding society.

So will peace continue and eventually lead to some thing of a more stable and prosperous place to live? Since the power sharing agreement began, Northern Ireland has developed its tourist industry in an effort to replace some of the jobs lost in ship building and such like. However, Martin McGuinness left a big void when he resigned in protest at the dodgy dealings of his UDP opposite. After recent elections, the NI assembly was unable to form a new agreement.

I expect Martin and Ian are either spinning in their graves or sharing beers and trading a few punches....

__________________

Fist is a four letter word. So is fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, fist fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, and, well you get the fist-fucking picture....

THE WESTCOUNTRY SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Yay! It's pink!

Don't think.... FEEL!

We're Englishmen, and we came here, to rape your women and drink your beer.

I went back in time and voted for Hitler.

Pouring oil on troubled waters since 2008. Then lighting a fucking match.

As a sign of just how normal things have gotten in northern Ireland, there is a apparently a controversy over whether or not an elderly lady should continue to have access to Stormont, the ni parliament, so she can keep feeding the stray cats

Without having seen any details of the case, I think the cats should be shot, gassed, or what ever. The woman should definitely be given access to none sensitive areas of Stormont. After all, it is taxes that pay for the bloody place.

I don't like cats. I don't like politicians that won't do the job they were elected for either. If they don't reach an agreement soon, they should go with the cats.

__________________

Fist is a four letter word. So is fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, fist fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, and, well you get the fist-fucking picture....

THE WESTCOUNTRY SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Yay! It's pink!

Don't think.... FEEL!

We're Englishmen, and we came here, to rape your women and drink your beer.

I went back in time and voted for Hitler.

Pouring oil on troubled waters since 2008. Then lighting a fucking match.

May not be that simple. After McGuinness resigned, the resulting election reduced the Unionist majority in the NI assembly to 1. So Sinn Fein are more influential than they were. To now, the assembly hasn't been able to re-affirm its power sharing role, and it is possible that Westminster will have to impose direct rule.

Then there is the European Union. Part of what has made power sharing work is the open border with the Irish Republic. Ireland and the United Kingdom have both expressed an interest in keeping this arrangement after Brexit, however the E.U may decide to impose a border. Movement of goods and labour was always fairly free between the UK and Ireland after partition, up until "the troubles" required strict border controls.

Of course, given the remain vote from the province, some might argue that it is the United Kingdom that is imposing a border with the European Union. Personally, I can see Ireland being amongst other countries voting to leave the European Union. I some times joke about them applying to re-join the United Kingdom, but as I have already pointed out in this thread, the only time Ireland was united was when it was part of the United Kingdom.

Northern Ireland is probably going to miss McGuinness, for all his "sins". The new breed of nationalist politicians are shaping up in the mould of Nicola Sturgeon like entitled idiots, that will only succeed in isolating people from our political process, and probably impoverishing them further at the same time.

__________________

Fist is a four letter word. So is fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, fist fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, and, well you get the fist-fucking picture....

THE WESTCOUNTRY SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Yay! It's pink!

Don't think.... FEEL!

We're Englishmen, and we came here, to rape your women and drink your beer.

I went back in time and voted for Hitler.

Pouring oil on troubled waters since 2008. Then lighting a fucking match.

Saw an article in the Belfast Telegraph that a group of business leaders had met separately with the DUP and Sinn Féin. While no direct talks, both sides expressed a desire to get a deal done. Going back to direct rule from London does no one any good. Brings back memories of the bad old days.

If the current bunch of NI assembly members prove themselves incapable of governing, they will have no choice. Hopefully business leaders can knock some sense in to them. Yes, you are getting Brexit, no, The Republic does not want you, grow up and deal with it.

__________________

Fist is a four letter word. So is fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, fist fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, and, well you get the fist-fucking picture....

THE WESTCOUNTRY SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Yay! It's pink!

Don't think.... FEEL!

We're Englishmen, and we came here, to rape your women and drink your beer.

I went back in time and voted for Hitler.

Pouring oil on troubled waters since 2008. Then lighting a fucking match.

Things are slowly changing in ni, politics is beginning to be defined just a bit in terms of left and right, rather than unionist and Republican. Older conservative Catholics are more in tune with the DUP on abortion and gay marriage than Sinn Féin.

It's still a very tribal sort of place, I wouldn't recommend walking down the Falls Road with a Union Jack or strolling up the Shank hill with a Tricolor, but it's a vastly different place that it was at the end of the Troubles

Wasn't the Good Friday agreement sacred and to be adhered to? I mean the independent part of Ireland had a vote to change their constitution to give up their demand to a united Ireland, in return for the current Assembly system which the Northerners also voted for. Ditching that could be playing with fire.

It is playing with fire. But this time London is not the villian, the DUP and Sinn Féin have to come to their senses. The last twenty years have seen Northern Ireland go from a war zone to a largely peaceful, some what prosperous place comparable to the rest of the UK or the Republic. A return to direct rule plays into the hands of the extremists, particularly the rump elements of the IRA.

Here is a nightmare scenario. The summer marching season is coming, an idiocy that the Orange Order is still allowed to parade through Nationalist areas. Given the current tension the Nationalist reaction is likely to be more intense and violent than usual. All it takes is for a mistake by the security forces resulting in the death or injury of a few Republican protesters and the whole place could go up in flames

I suppose in time Nationalist and Unionist communities could reach a compromise on the marching thing. In the mean time, I would vehemently defend the right of people to assemble in either protest or celebration. Is it just the Unionists that do the marching thing, or do Nationalists have a similar tradition?

__________________

Fist is a four letter word. So is fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, fist fist, fist, fist, fist, fist, and, well you get the fist-fucking picture....

THE WESTCOUNTRY SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Yay! It's pink!

Don't think.... FEEL!

We're Englishmen, and we came here, to rape your women and drink your beer.

I went back in time and voted for Hitler.

Pouring oil on troubled waters since 2008. Then lighting a fucking match.

The Republicans have a few, the big ones commemorate the Easter Rising and the other the 1981 hunger strikes. No one disputes the right of either side to hold parades or memorials, it's the insistence of the Orange order on marching through Nationalist areas that inevitably leads to counter protests and frequently ends in a riot.

I usually avoid looking at the Northern Ireland situation as a Catholic/Protestant issue, it's much more of a cultural and ethnic thing. On the republican side there have been periods in recent history where IRA membership would have earned you an excommunication from the Catholic church.

The Orange Order is an exception, they are a overtly sectarian organization whose reason for existence is save the world from the foul clutches of the papists. They spent the last century in mortal terror of octogenarian Italians in Vatican City.