Education Secretary Betsy DeVos was interviewed by Lisa Stahl for 60 Minutes on Sunday night, and despite her best attempts to smile and word-salad her way through the line of questioning, it did not go great — putting it lightly. In the above clip, DeVos was asked to explain why it makes sense to take money away from a school that’s already not working and expect it to improve. It was a fairly straightforward question, but DeVos’ answer was mind-boggling.

“Well, we should be funding, and investing, in students,” she replied. “Not in school– school buildings, not in institutions, not in systems…”

Stahl then interrupted to call DeVos on her B.S., who then went on to point to Florida, making the claim that students who are given alternate education options other somehow improve public schools.

“Has that happened in Michigan?” Stahl continued. “We’re in Michigan, this is your home state.” DeVos enthusiastically replied that there were plenty of great options and choices for students in her state, but Stahl pressed further.

“Have the public schools in Michigan gotten better?” she asked, point blank. “Uh, I don’t know. Overall, I can’t say overall that they have all gotten better,” DeVos replied.

“The whole state is not doing well,” Stahl pointed out. “Your argument that if you take funds away that the schools will get better is not working in Michigan, where you had a huge impact and influence over the direction of the school system here.”

“I hesitate to talk about all schools in general, because schools are made up of individual students attending them,” DeVos offered.

After some more back and forth, Stahl asked if DeVos has even seen the “really bad schools” in Michigan. “Maybe try to figure out what they’re doing?”