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Car Salesman Confidential: How We Get Paid

These Days, the 'Home Run' Is Harder to Come By

I am a commissioned salesperson.I get paid a commission every time I sell a car. My commission is a percentage of the profit. At the dealership where I work, I get paid 25 percent of the "front-end" profit and 5 percent of the "back end." The front-end profit is made on the purchase price of the car. The back-end profit is found in financing and anything else we sell you, such as extended service contracts or GAP insurance.For example, if I sell a car for $25,000 and there is a $1000 profit, or "gross" on the front end, I'm paid a $250 commission. If the customer finances through the dealership and we make $1000 on the back end, I get another 5 percent, or $50. Total commission before taxes: $300.I think most people understand this, to some degree. What they don't understand is that I only get paid if I sell a car. If I don't sell a car, I don't get paid. I make nothing. So if you come in and ask me to test drive a few cars, and I work numbers with you, and you take up three or four hours of my time, but you leave and don't buy a car . . . I have made nothing. I am not compensated in any way for the time I just spent with you. I just poured three hours down the drain.Prior to getting into car sales I had always been paid a salary or on an hourly basis. If I worked 40 hours a week, I was paid whatever the hourly wage was, times 40 hours. When I was salaried, I was getting a fixed amount each month, as long as I did my job. But after my first week in sales I realized I had just given up 50 hours of my life and hadn't made one red cent. Because I hadn't sold a car that week.Let me tell you, that is a strange and sobering thought. And it changes your perspective completely. The following is a slight exaggeration: Imagine that one day civilization collapses, and all the grocery stores close, and you suddenly realize that if you want something to eat, you're going to have to go out and hunt it down and kill it. Otherwise you'll starve. That is what commissioned sales is like.If you pull into my lot and get out to look and I don't greet you, I might have missed out on the only chance at a paycheck I'll have that day. Do you think a lion sitting there in the veldt, who hasn't eaten in days, looks up and spots an antelope grazing in the grass a few hundred years away and says to himself, "Naaah, I'll let that guy go, and get the next one?" A hungry lion doesn't care if the antelope is "just looking." He's going to run it down and eat it. It's a matter of survival.This is what motivates the salesman. Hunger. This is what makes us put up with the long hours and the obstacles and the delays the average customer throws our way. We don't eat -- or get paid-- unless you buy.And how much are we paid? Theoretically, the sky's the limit. If you can sell 20 or 25 cars a month, and "hold gross" (make a big profit) on each of them, you can make more than six figures annually. And there are salesmen out there who have done even better than that. There are the Joe Girards -- who once sold 18 cars in one day -- and sales expert Grant Cardones, and people like them who make more than some CEOs. But by and large these people are the exception. Not everyone can be a Michael Jordan or a LeBron James, no matter what they say in sales meetings.Most salespeople do not sell 25 cars per month, and holding gross on a new cars is virtually impossible these days. So at every dealership there's what's known as a minimum commission, or "mini deal." That's the minimum the dealership will pay you when a car deal makes no money. At my dealership, a mini deal is worth $125. Now think about that.How many cars would you need to sell at $125 a pop to make a decent living? Do you think you could sell 3 cars a week? That's about 12 a month -- not too bad. That works out to $1500 a month. Or $18,000 a year before taxes. Hardly rolling in dough.At my dealership the average commission is around $550 a car. That's new and used combined. So if you're an average salesman and you sell 10-12 cars a month, which is the national average, and each car you sell is a $550 commission, what have you made? $6600. Or $79,200 a year before taxes. Not bad, depending on where you live . . . but hardly the life of Donald Trump. When you consider the hours needed to make those sales, it's even less impressive.So what keeps people in car sales, if the money isn't spectacular? Well, it's a matter of perception and personality, in my opinion. One day you may sell nothing -- and make nothing. The next day you may hit a home run and make $1000. Then you make another $100, and later on get a bonus from the manufacturer and make another hundred, for $1200 for a few hours work. Not too bad. That's what keeps the car salesman going: the hope that next time, he or she is going to hit one out of the park. It's a gambler's mentality. But if you're in commissioned sales, you have to have a bit of the gambler in you.I once sold a car to a man in his early 20s. He came in with a buddy of his and wanted to test drive an older Mustang we had, a Mustang that had been on our lot for quite some time. But he didn't buy that day. He came back a few days later with the same friend, but I was busy with another customer at the time, so a friend of mine who is my "floor partner" helped him.At that moment the deal became what is known a "split deal," which means that my friend and I would have to split the commission 50/50. Well, this young man was a tough negotiator, and it took us something like four hours total to close him. And we lost our butts on the deal. We sold the car for less than we had in it, because it had been on the lot for nearly 60 days and we were just about to send it to auction, which would have meant taking an even bigger loss.After it was all over, the young man asked us "How much did you guys make on this deal?" I asked him if he really wanted to know. He said yes. "How much do you think we made?" I asked. "Oh, probably 2 or 3 grand each," he replied. He honestly thought that my partner and I had pocketed $6000 in commission on a $14,000 car. The truth was, it was a mini deal, and split two ways we had each made a whopping $62.50. When I told him that, a big smile grew across his face, like we were pulling his leg, and he said "Oh, no way! No way, man! You couldn't make a living like that!!"Tell me about it.More from Car Salesman Confidential:

Let's say a car salesman wanted to take this approach - if he is simply honest with the customer about how much he is making on the front end per car sale, and is aiming to make an identical amount per sale, that this would ultimately build a good reputation for that salesman and the dealership, thus having a positive effect on the volume of sales, while building an honest sales reputation. This way, even if others in the dealership are more concerned with their personal financial maximization, they still benefit from Mr. Honest's word of mouth reputation. Secondly, the salesman,being a humble person, can also present to the buyer his reasoning behind the amount (as in, "I just need to make $200 per sale to live a meager life")

My question is - would any dealership in this country hire such a salesman? Sure, he lacks killer instinct, is not money motivated, and severely limits profit per sale, but logically his reputation would increase lot customers, potentially significantly if properly marketed,, allowing the other more money-focused salespeople to improve their volume as well. It's basically a win-win for all types of salespeople at that lot.

i work 50 hours a week sell about 6 cars a month due to the fact we only carry about 12-16 cars on lot I am doing all the bank contracts all the paper work and dmv . im moving cars from auctions . BUT i get paid off books and make only 400 a week . I personally dont think that this is fair ! So what is one to do ?

Sorry if you already answered this, but how do car buying services play into your commission? I bank through USAA and they have a car buying service. I am in the market for a new car and building and pricing different makes and models through the website is incredibly addicting. I do wonder how the dealership/salesperson makes money. It appears most of the prices are 3-5% above invoice plus any manufacturer's incentives can quickly get the prices 10-15% below MSRP, even more on outgoing models. While I consider myself a decent negotiator, I also have three kids all under 5 and I am dreading actually buying a car because of the time involved and keeping the kids occupied. Having a fair price already established is an efficiency I value more than haggling for a few extra dollars off. I didn't know if the car buying service gives a little to the dealership or if the dealership agrees to participate in exchange for more potential traffic. I am also going to assume there is probably one or two salespersons assigned to work these leads or referrals. Thanks and keep up the good work, really enjoy reading your blogs.

I have a comment and a question relating to the discussion of "why would you wait three months to buy a car".

Since I hate haggling, I'm planning to buy via a manufacturer partner program. I've narrowed my vehicle choices down to two, and both of those two manufacturers have programs for members of partner organizations that set a purchase price relative to invoice. The only catch is that eligibility only kicks in after 6 months of joining the partner organization, and I'm only 4 months in. So I have another 2 months to wait. In the interim, I'm making my final decision between the two vehicles, and deciding on options. You might ask why I'm visiting dealerships already and not in 2 months time. Well, there is some paperwork to submit for the partner programs ahead of time, and I only intend to do it for the manufacturer I actually end up selecting.

I actually would be ready to make my decision and buy sooner, if the dealerships in question would just give me the partner price ahead of time. I've been honest with both about my intentions. But the dealerships are not willing to give me the partner price, and instead are trying to convince me to buy sooner at a higher price. Which is not going to happen.

My question: Do the dealerships get some additional consideration from the manufacturer when a customer makes use of a manufacturer-sponsored program? Because that is the only reasonable reason I can think of to explain why they would not just extend that pricing to me already.

I'm not sure if the etiquette of the forum allows me to mention the specific manufacturers, but I certainly can if that would help.

In today day and age, it's all about taking care of the customer. Yes, we have to eat. Yes, we need to make as much money as we can. However, the customer has to be happy or you will be starving.

Are there customers that I've made more than "mini deal"?....yes. Are they 100% completely satisfied?....yes everyone of them! Are there customers that I've made $125 on...yes. Are they 100% completely satisfied?...not all of them. I will always be there for my customers. It's about the service and understanding. Profit is what keeps every business in business. So, if you pay $500 or $200 more, whatever isn't it better to pay more money to the consultant that took the time and got your interest in the car. Especially, if your dealership is local and you shop out of town.

Hey, if you want to shop different manufacturers, totally understand. Shop same brand different dealership. I don't get it. Unless, the dealership treated you wrong.

Also, "get rid of the car salesperson"? So, you know anything and everything about the vehicles, programs, incentives, what the best option to buy for your living style is, etc. I doubt it. I've had cash customers finance. I've had finance customers lease. I've had cash customers do a one pay lease. It's all based on me listening to what the customers intentions are with the vehicle. And numerous customers appreciate it.

I wish I could negotiate my medical expenses from my $100,000 surgery. I don't get to price shop that. Instead, I pay $135 a week to cover my family to cover that stuff, and than some person come in that makes $300k a year negotiate over $200 and they are unhappy.

So, it's about making customers comfortable and happy. The value of their experience. In my opinion.

And THAT'S! exactly why the job of a "car salesman" is (and should) go away.

Personally I despise salespeople, specially car salesman. Why? Because exactly what this guy just wrote up here. They serve ABSOLUTELY no practical/useful or decent purpose to the consumer. They are just there to squeeze the consumer out of as much money as they can, based on the fact that a lot of people are still leaving in the 70s and are not informed. Thanks God, baby boomers are dying now and with them this whole dealership model will go away as well.

The old-fashioned model of car selling is probably the most cancerous anti-consumer practice in modern economy.

There is no much wrong with the dealership model itself, if it was used to what theoretically was intended to do. Which was help manufacturers (Ford, GM, etc) reach the customer at a local level and provide with a point of contact and assistance of services post purchase. Make money in between….sounds good, that's a good business practice. Nothing anti-consumerist about charging for facilitating a service that otherwise wouldn't be available (such as servicing your car after purchase, and for the old folks…buying a car, since you know…they don't know the interwebz).

However, BIG however….

The current old-fashioned car dealership model has become a total cancer for consumers. The model relies on abusing and going out of their way to miss-inform consumers, from the moment they advertise on TV to the moment that poor soul is signing papers. They are not there to "sell" you on behalf Ford. They are there to make as much money as possible of a product that is already priced to generate profit.

The whole point of a "salesman" is in my opinion flawed for a modern economy. It's based on convincing someone about the attributes of a product, instead of informing them. In the current scenario of this article, it goes even further. Because the situation this poor guy is in, he is NOT motivated to inform the consumer, he is motivated to deceive the consumer, because as he said…that's how he eats.

Thanks to the internet and modern methods of communication, the whole purpose of a "car salesman" is obsolete, plain and simple. Just like "car/house insurance brokers", and other the like, there is absolutely no reason for them to exist, other than of course, service and take advance of the current old folks that don't use internet.

I would feel bad for the position car salespeople are in, but on the other hand, they could be working in something else, it was their choice to get into this line of work, and if they are surviving there, it's because they have the attributes of a con, therefore…I don't feel one bit sad for the position some of them are put into.

Random question, I was at a Chevy dealership the other day looking at ~30k car and the salesman treated me like I was crazy for asking for a lease quote without giving a credit application. Said since there was no manufacturers specials any number would be near meaningless without a formal review of credit history. And I was like," umm that's ok just give me a ballpark, I have excellent credit"- and then he rolled his eyes and said everyone thinks they have excellent credit. Kept on bringing up about being able to be "bought".

It was a thoroughly uncomfortable conversation because I've been to many dealerships and it has always been incredibly casual getting lease numbers. The last car I leased was a BMW and was about ~42k. We negotiated and shook hands on the number before even talking about credit. Right afterwards they said by the way, this deal requires spotless credit. Then I did the application where F&I approved the lease.

I'd like to respond to three questions that have been asked by Car Salesmen on this thread:

Q: Why would you wait three months to buy a car? It just seems like an excuse not to buy.

A: First, the person who posted their desire to wait three months isn't buying anything from anyone here. So there's no need for him to make excuses.

Second, there are many reasons why someone would not buy now. Maybe they are still in their current lease. Maybe they'd rather wait to payoff the car before committing to a new one. For many people, cars are emotional purchases, so an emotional person would want to see how it "feels" to own their current car out-right (who knows, they might decide that "no payments" is the best thing since sliced-bread).

Third, for many folks in highly populated states (especially large cities, where it sometimes makes more sense to rent), buying a new car is the most expensive thing they will ever buy. I know that car salesmen sell cars everyday (or at least see them sold everyday), but that doesn't mean that a person should be flippid about their car purchase. I don't know too many people that will impulsively buy a home. And I certainly don't know anyone who has bought a home at the listed price. Many folks who do buy homes, go through many offer/counter-offers from different sellers before they agree to buy. This means many visits to different homes, many meetings with sellers/brokers, and certainly TONS of negotiations on repairs and such. I know that cars aren't homes, but for many folks, buying a car is very similar, in that it is the most expensive thing they will buy, ever. So it is possible that a person has decided that they would give themselves ample to research, test drive, and improve their credit before committing to buying a car. I feel that many salesmen would benefit from remembering that SOME folk approach a car purchase in the same way that MOST folk approach a home purchase.

Q: If you're not buying now, why test drive now? Why not wait to test drive until you are ready to buy?

A: Well, if you have never bought a car that you hated, then God bless you! It is very demoralizing to drive home in your brand new JCat 5000, only to realize that you've made a mistake. Sure, some dealers offer 5-day returns on used cars. But many don't. I once bought a Honda coupe that I returned the very next day. When I called the dealer to ask if I could exchange the car for something else, here is what they said: No. After much prodding, he agreed to take back the Honda Coupe, in exchange for a Honda Sedan. In the end, I ended up paying an extra $1,000 for a Sedan that was listed at $1,000 less than the Coupe I had initially purchased. So there, right there, I lost $2000. After this experience, I promised myself that I would never buy another car without test driving every possible trim combination available for any car that I might be interested in. Sure this sucks for the sales man, but I've yet to meet a salesman who'd be willing to give me back my $2,000, so I still keep to this rule. The great thing about sales is that everyone has the ability to protect their own interests. So, this is one way of protecting mine.

Q: Why would I give you a quote as soon as you walk into my dealership? Aren't you going to walk right out of my dealership and use my quote against me?

A: Yes, I am. At a recent dinner party, someone suggested that they best way to seduce a lady is to find a way to get naked on her bed. The theory being that if she finds you naked on her bed, she will either ask you to leave, ask you to put on your clothes, or she will simply join you in bed. This means that for every three times that you pull this stunt, at least one of the ladies is sure to end up you in bed with you. Pretty good odds, if you ask me.

Though I'm not sure that I agree with the premise behind this theory, I do think that many used car managers play the same odds when it comes to used car sales. The customer will either pay the asking price, or they will negotiate, or they will just walk out. In this scenario, the customer stays at the dealership two-out-of-three times. Because of this, many managers have very little incentive to be aggressive with their pricing. From a customer's standpoint, this equates to a waste of time. Here I am, buying flowers, paying for dinner, and you just want to be friends (or demand that I pay near sticker for your used 2013 Jalopnick with 5,000 miles). If you want me to buy now, give me an aggressive quote. Who knows, we both might end up naked!

I say that because every time I buy a car it still takes 2-4 hours even though the price is negotiated in 5 minutes and I've a letter of credit at the ready from a local credit union. Seems to me if people were that pressed for profit they'd find a way to speed the process along a little bit.

I can assure you if you only put $3000 down the salesman made a mini or what we call a flat .but a good salesman has no concern with that he only wants to sell cars the money will follow .hopefully he ask for referrals and repeat business and the leash you again in another 2 to 3 years possibly even lowering your payment.Honda and Toyota leases are the best they have no tricks at the end of lease

Well train salesman deserves to make good money.but every customer deserves a well-trained salesman.it's not only important what you buy and where you buy it's important who you buy from Will this guy stand behind the product for you when you come in with a problem .that would be the time you want him to have a killer instinct !to take care of your problem.

we should be honest every second of our life whether it is in car sales or home sales . Why do people think that a salesman that works 50 hours a week should tell people how much he makes or limit his commission at $200 a deal.

The experience you're gaining is priceless.find a dealership that sells more cars. Figure out how many cars they sell and how many salesmen they have. Take your experience and get your portion of them sales. You have an advantage over the other salesman because they didn't learn all the things you learned at the little store you were working at .take what you learn to become a franchise at a bigger store . figure out how many cars they selling .how many salesmen they have.and get what you want

The true definition of success. Is the ability to pay profit. If every store sold a car for what they paid for it how long would they be in business what would happen when you need an oil change or you get a scratch or like the car looked at .no car stores going to sell all their cars for cost it's impossible.but getting the price you want to pay is not unreasonable you have to be a little open-minded

brebuch1, when a customer goes thru a company like USAA or uses another 3rd party buying service, it usually means a "mini deal" for the salesperson, or a small commission. However, it's usually an easier deal, so the same things that make it attractive to you-- less haggling, less time involved-- make it attractive to us as well.

Usually the dealership pays the 3rd party lead provider an agreed upon fee, and the benefit for us is the increased traffic, as you point out. All of the things you describe-- having kids, having a fair price established before you go in, these are the things that make services like this very attractive to buyers. And yes, many times these leads are the responsibility of 2 or 3 salespeople.

But the fact is, you can get a price as good as, or even better than, a 3rd party price just by negotiating. And not all dealers will honor USAA type pricing on every model. They still reserve the right not to give you the special low, low price on the hot models. And if you come in thinking you'll start at the TMV price, or whatever, and knock off another grand or two (which some people try to do) you are in for a headache. It's not happening.

bugeye, I think I can guess which manufacturer it is but it's not necessary to name them. I know some dealers do get compensated on some of these plans, but it's hard to say. I think they're probably pressing you to buy now because those "Partner" or "Friends & Family" deals are thin deals for the dealership. The only reason I can think of for your company expecting you to wait is, they don't want people signing up, buying a car, and then quitting. So they make you wait 6 months. The good thing is, you're not stuck with one manufacturer.

But at least you have a legitimate reason for waiting, and it makes sense. Most of the time I hear that "I won't be buying until August 15th, 2016" I think it's a ruse.

just like you make money in whatever business you do salesmen are entitled to make some money too . sales is how world functions and revolves . Salesmen are herwy to stay . last if you wanna have good experience buying a car maybe you should pay the sticker price and see how fast and easy buying a car will be but people like you dont wanna give any profit and then you wounder why salesman hassle you .

Not all car dealerships are sleazy or out to screw you over. Sounds to me like you are one of those people who do all their surfing over the net and then come to the dealership thinking you know it all. You are the people these sales people dislike and here is why ...... Your know it all attitude may get you out the door with a car you really like at a price you really want and then you start whining you don't know how the car works. You didn't know this button did this or that button did that. Then you have the gall to call the dealership and gripe because you didn't get the "information" you needed to make an "informed" decision.

Of course you didn't because you knew it all walking into the dealership and closed off your brain to what the sales person was telling you. Safety rating is a big concern of mine so I went on the net did my research and bought the vehicle I could find with the best safety rating, I knew this walking into the car dealership what I was looking for. I also know walking into the dealership what I am going to ask for a discount on and what I won't negotiate on. To me there are things that are NON Negotiable in the deal and if that loses me the car I want then that is my fault for not seeing reason.

You expect things to be handed to you and you want to haggle and you want to blame the sales associate. What you think it costs pennies to build these cars on the road? You want to carry your family in sub standard equipment? Think of it from this perspective your car purchase pays the car salesman, the middle man, the people who build the car, the people who supply the items to build the car and right on down the line. Depending on what YOU personally do it also helps pay you ...... your employees don't get to work because they don't have a car your production goes down and you lose money out of your pocked...... everything is a circle. In order to get something you need to give something it is a rather simple economic structure. So for you griping about these "Antiquated Car Dealerships" you may want to remember if it weren't for the sales people and their dealerships you would be without some of what you have now .....

@Tacoss23And that's why car salespeople hate people here like you. No one wants to say it but you are the person that comes in and thinks they know everything because they "looked on the internet" but when it comes to knowing "what this button does" in the vehicle you couldn't tell your ass from your elbow. You're a leech with the mentality of prepubescent teenager who thinks they know it all but in reality you would never understand half of what the vehicle actually does without the knowledged assistance of a salesperson because what you actually buying is a computer. We aren't the "Geek Squad" but you won't snub their advice on your laptop.

But you don't see salespeople as someone who is there to lend their expertise. You only see them as money grubbing subhumans who are there to take your hard earned money. The fact is, it's because of people like you that when salespeople do a "first pencil" hundreds of dollars are deducted instantaneously from hard worked for pay which is why they end up with $62.50 for hours of work trying to please your smug personality. Yet you still won't think we deserve such compensation for our time. You should take your own advise since you think our jobs are arbitrare and just go directly to the manufacture for your purchase and see how that works. Gather all the correct paperwork that you obviously already have and make sure that is sent correctly to the state so that you don't get audited. I have never wrote something so hateful on this blog but you are the face of sales related and attributed bigotry. You are the bain of our existence and if you never showed your face in a dealership again we would all appreciate it. Have a nice day.

I disagree with most of what you say but I appreciate you taking the time to comment, because I know a lot of people probably feel the way you do and I want them to know they're welcome to express their opinion here. This is not a blog written by a car salesman strictly for other car salesmen.

But I do have to say, saying "Thank God a whole generation is dying off" is a lousy thing to say, and I hope you don't mean it. I'd never say that about any generation-- WW2, Baby Boomers, Gen X, Y, or whatever.

@Tacoss23This guy has watched "Used Cars" one
to many times. YES, we all wear plaid jackets and do our best to screw
customers out of their hard earned money with lies and deception. You need to meet the "Badger", the greatest car sales person ever! You really
don't have any idea of what you are saying. "You car salesman are there to
make as much money as possible of a product that is already priced to generate
a profit." What does this mean? So you want to pay the MSRP of a car? Then
pay it and move on and everyone will be happy! The dealer isn't there to
negotiate the price of the car, the consumer is. If everyone paid the listed
price, would you be happy?? Well, we know you wouldn't be happy no matter what.
Do you understand that because you can negotiate most of the time on a car,
that the consumer is saving money?

Do you get that concept at
all? If you could negotiate pricing on everything in life, we might have a
different economy. I along with my fellow sales people will continue, as you
say" abuse and going out of our way to miss-inform consumers.

@Tacoss23 1987 called, it wants your post back. Not even worth responding to. So since I have said that, let me guess, "it's because you spoke the truth, and I (we) can't handle it". That is usually how these things go.

@bdappWhat part of the sales process were you in? If you were seated at a desk and already working figures then it should have been very easy to provide a lease quote for you. However, if you were on the lot, it truly is impossible to provide a lease quote on a vehicle without putting the information in the computer. One of my biggest pet peeves is someone asking for a lease payment on a vehicle when they've looked at it for five minutes. Unfortunately, I don't have all the residual values memorized for different terms, different trim levels, and leasing incentives and program rates for every vehicle on the lot, much less without known what credit tier you would be approved for (which believe it or not does make a large difference).

Nation lease ads are even worse, because they create such a false expectation in the consumer. For whatever reason, at my facility we have no way of ever getting close to advertised lease specials. It'll be a -$2,000 in the machine and it's still $70 a month more than the national ad. Also, Chevrolet leases in general are absolutely atrocious. You can normally lease the GMC counterpart or even the Cadillac version for the same or even less money per month.

If I required everyone to give me a credit app before I quoted them prices I'd probably never quote a single price. The lease specials (if there are any) are usually right there on the manufacturer's website. So what's the problem?

I would have given you leasing figures and told you "Now, you understand this is with approved credit only. The numbers may vary once we actually look at your credit."

Billy_G, to answer that question I'd need a whole blog. And maybe I should do one! :)

To use an (imperfect) analogy . . . why do you need to deal with a teller or a loan officer at a bank? Why not just go directly into the vault, or the President's office? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just pointing out that a lot of the reason has to do with practicality. If there are 20 customers on the lot they can't all deal with the 2 or 3 sales managers at the same time.

But there are other reasons and I'll try to do a blog on that subject in the future, because it's a good one. Thanks!

I'm not sure if the customer "needs" a car sales person (your question is sexist btw.) However, the Auto companies do. No one would ever buy anything if there were not salespeople. Everyone would test drive things for 6 months and have no idea what to buy, or if they should buy anything. Good luck learning all of the technology in the car on your own. The automakers JD Power surveys would plummet, since their customers wouldn't know how to work their own car. Probably not the majority of people on here, but 90% of customers do need us. And there are lots of successfull women in the auto industry. They can also vote and own land now too.

@myopinionisbetter Great question! It depends on the dealership policy. Some have what is called an "up" system, which basically means they take turns. So if someone comes in that is "3 months away" that sales person has to walk with that guy until he leaves and now the sales person goes to the back of the line waiting for his next turn. The other method is a "free floor", which means there is no "Up" system. So the first person to walk up to you and greet you, is the sales person that will show you the cars. So while it may seem that the sales person is being "aggressive 'to begin with because that is his lively hood, that is his paycheck. The sales person that waits around for the "right up" or the "passive sales person" that wants to be liked by all the other sales person, will never make it in the car business. So that is why you look like a juicy steak to the 5 sales people waiting for a customer to pull up. Try not to take it the wrong way, but the aggressive sales person that comes up to greet you out of the pack is doing it to survive!

@Vicconcep I hate commenting on this page sometimes.....I get typing and its gone, all that work for nothing. lol.

Vicconcep I would never in a million years start car shopping before I am ready. Its stupid. Why not start test driving when your ready to buy. The reason is you can test drive all the cars you are interested in back to back, that way its fresh in your mind what you like. You know as well as I do if you drive a car three months ago and now your ready to buy you will have to re-drive that same car again, not only wasting your time but the salesman's time and the dealership's gas.

As for quotes I am more then happy to quote you full MSRP on any car I have on my lot. I do it every single day. When you look up at me and say no discount? I look you and say are you buying it today because I don't negotiate maybes and I might buy someday. If the customer is ready to buy you better believe I will do my best to get a fair price for them.

No one wants someone coming in to drive 4 or 5 cars that they may or may not buy in three months. If you really need to drive a car because you might buy someday go and rent a car and stop wasting dealerships time and money. Its so easy to test drive a car when its free but if you had to pay you sure wouldn't be so eager to test drive cars that you may or may not buy someday. RENT A CAR its that easy!

@Vicconcep I appreciate your comments but I can't resist saying this . . . it took less than 3 months to plan the D-Day invasion.

OK, slight exaggeration, but you get the point. When I look for a house I know it may in fact take 3 months for me to find the right home at the right price . . . but I have never set an arbitrary date for myself 3 months in the future and said "Even if I find the right house, I'm not buying a house until 3 months has elapsed." That is the difference. So when someone says to me "I'm not buying a car for another 3 months," they're not saying they expect to be shopping that whole time, or that they expect the process to take that long. (Why would it take exactly 3 months, anyway? Why not 2? Or 4?) They're saying they're not planning to buy until 3 months from now-- for some reason. And my question is always "Why? What's the reason?"

Are you getting a tax return? Are you waiting on news of a new job? Are you waiting until you think we'll reduce the price? Are you waiting to graduate, or for a child to graduate? Are you hoping to hit the lottery? What's the reason?

If they can't give me a concrete reason, I'm sorry, I'm inclined to think they're BS'ing me. It shouldn't take 3 months to find a car. It shouldn't take 3 weeks. It can be done in a weekend.

If you don't know yourself and your own likes and dislikes and are prone to making poor decisions when it comes to cars, delay will not help you. You can buy the wrong car 3 months from now just as easily as this afternoon. No, I'm sorry, experience tells me that people who say they are going to take that long are, by and large, saying that just to shake the salesman off.

As far as the lying in bed naked story (funny story!), here's the way your salesman sees it: you want me to take off my clothes and jump in bed . . . but you have no intention of joining me. You've already told me you're going to "shop around," i.e., get a whole bunch of other folks to disrobe before you make up your mind. So what's my incentive to join in your game? It's clear what's in it for the customer . . . but what's in it for me?

@VicconcepYour personal example of
how you bought a coupe and they wouldn't allow you to return it, until after
much prodding. First, I really hope you thanked them for doing that. There is
no law that says they have to do that at all. You went into their business and
made a purchase, they didn't come to you. You obviously don't know the
paperwork that has to de done at the dealership level and at the bank. Dealers
can be funded from a lot of lenders electronically that same day. Try to
reverse a deal that has already been funded by the bank. Not easy and very time
consuming. Again, you just see it as the dealer playing hard ball. I have never
seen a coupe cost more then a sedan with the same equipment in the same model.
So the sedan you bought had more equipment then the couple had, is the reason
it cost more. Not because they raised the price $1,000. Again, you blame the
dealer because you think you lost $2,000. Did the dealer force you to sign
paperwork?? Why should the salesman give you $2,000? Not one salesman has ever
said, don't test drive a car! Have i had many buyers buy cars without test
driving. Sure I have, but I always make sure to offer them a test drive.

@VicconcepYou have a lot of
perceptions, but not a lot of facts. All buyers have defense mechanism's. Yes
me included. I'm just looking, is the number 1. So if you ask 9 out of 10
people that say, "we are a few months from buying", If the price was right,
would you buy today? 9 out of those 10 people will say, YES! I know this to be
true because I have lived it for 12 years. I know the amount of research people
do on the Internet about cars, before they ever set foot in the dealership. So
yes, call it an excuse or defense or whatever you want to call it, but more
times than not, people aren't months away from buying.

@mehgerbil That's easy to fix. Tell the salesman that before you start with anything you want to speak to his/her manager. Tell the manager you expect them to respect your time. If they cant you are not going to do business with them. It works all the time. Ive had my customers bump other customers who have been waiting for hours because of this. If you are with a good salesman this shouldn't be a problem. If your with a rookie or a bad manager don't buy anything just leave. I hate it when customers are going to sink thousands of dollars and everything stops because the Finance guy cant get his act together.

mehgerbil, I wish I had you as a customer! Only 5 minutes to negotiate the price? That's pretty quick.

Some dealerships are incredibly slow. I won't deny that. It depends on the F&I guy, it depends on the dealership's procedures, how much paperwork they have, etc., etc.

But here's one thing that no customer seems to consider: they are not the only customers in the dealership.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but the mindset of most people seems to be "I am the only one here." Which is understandable, in a way, because you're spending so much money. But what people don't realize is, there may be 3 or 4 people ahead of you in line buying a car. These 3 or 4 people got here before you did, and they have to go first. Now, had you walked in an hour earlier-- or an hour later-- you might not have had to wait at all. But just by an accident of timing, all the customers got here at once and decided to buy a car. It's very frustrating for us, too, because we don't like the wait, either. But it just happens.

@Mark McDonald Mark, I completely understand why there is a six-month waiting period for these programs, from the point of view of the partner organization. In my case, one of these programs is via a car enthusiast club that I joined. The other is a benefit that is extended to shareholders of the manufacturer after owning shares for 6 months.

What I don't fully understand is why the dealerships are not willing to just give me that price now. I mean, their choices are (1) wait another two months, and then make a sale to me at $x, or (2) make a sale to me at $x right now. Seems to me a bird in the hand and all that... but then again maybe I'm being too rational.

Your comment is actually a good one but there are two types of dealership in today's market? 1 is the old-fashioned used car dealership even though they sell new cars they have an old attitude. 2 .is the new business dealership these dealerships have HR department training department and constant individual learning systems.these new dealerships or training salesman that people are not pieces of meat. Salesman have to learn it's all about service today build a relationship sell a car .people buy cars from people they like !

@MOAR! Slow down there, MOAR! Billy G probably didn't need to upset you and your little sister. Using a word like 'salesman' could just as easily be like the Greek word 'anthropos' for mankind, meaning both genders. I'm cutting Billy some slack on this one.

Test drive for six months and not know what to buy? Those people need a lot more than a salesperson (feel better?). They probably need a refill on their medication. I will agree that salespeople are helpful. That is, when they're not on you before you ever get a shoe on the asphalt. That one thing bothers me so much that when I'm in the market I will either take bids in the internet (the way I bought my last car) or look at a dealerships website and choose a salesperson by their photo and narrative (if it's there) and ask for that person when I first arrive.

@bob Very good point. If you drive a car today, and you really aren't buying until 3 or 4 months from now, you won't remember how that car felt or drove-- especially if you drive more than one. You'll have to drive it again to refresh your memory.

@MaverickAZ@Vicconcep I agree with you. It's a defense mechanism. I can't tell you how many customers I've met who tell me they're 3 months out from buying . . . or 6 months out . . . or a year away . . . and the next day I call them and guess what they say? "Oh, I've already bought a car." Really? But you told me yesterday you weren't buying for several months. What happened? "Well, I just found a deal that was too good to pass up."

@bob@mehgerbil So you want your time respected, but not the time respected of those that were in line before you? There are so many holes in this argument...... You just sound self absorbed and like someone who likely isn't worth the time of doing business in the short or long run.

I know the 5 minutes to negotiate price seems fast but their first offer was close enough to the mark that I accepted it. I didn't really care about spending another hour fighting over $300.00. The vehicle was totally stock so there wasn't much wiggle room.

I brought in a letter of pre-approval from a local credit union (one the dealership uses) and it still took 2.5 hours to get out of there. I don't think there were other customers, I went over lunch and there were at least two salespeople doing nothing at all. In fact, while my guy was out working magic in the back I talked to salesman for 1/2 hr. just shooting the breeze.

The odd thing is when I went to the Credit Union it took them all of 10 minutes to decide to loan me the money - I just cannot figure out what takes so much time.

I'm not calling you a liar as I enjoy your articles but when I hear of salesmen doing more than 2 deals a day I don't know how they make that happen - unless they're putting in 16-20hr days. It takes less time to get married, join the military, or get through security at the airport. =)

@DSmithy3211@mehgerbil Believe me, I've seen salespeople practically come to blows with management and/or F&I guys over the time it took to get their customer in & out. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do about it.

At my facility, the supplier program requires that you receive a code, and once we apply that code with the VIN of the vehicle you select, it allows the dealership to sell it for that price but receive a stipend from the manufacturer, much like a rebate. However, the salesman does not receive any compensation for that, just the dealership, so if you sell the 'supplier' deal and it equals $500 below invoice, enjoy your $100 mini. So you your salesman it doesn't matter when you buy the vehicle, but to the dealership they stand to gain more once you have your authorization code.

lol, I was just giving him a hard time. Thing about being on people as soon as there feet hit the asphat. Half of the customers don't want to be bothered for a few minutes, and just take everything in before speaking with someone. The other half gets pissed off when you don't run over to them wanting to wait on them hand and foot becuase they are spending good money at your dealership. So it's kind of a tricky balance. And those people who you don't run over to, that want you to, are the ones that complain to the dealership and the brand.

@Mark McDonald We have had people in finance who will ask very detailed questions about every single document, or read every piece of print before signing. Which in theory is not a bad idea-but that is a lot of reading. What I'm getting at is I have seen some customers be in finance for 2 hours. So if you are the next customer in line, that will certainly add to the wait time, although it does not appear busy to the customer.

@mehgerbil @Mark McDonald It varies quite a bit, dealer to dealer. There was one place I worked where it seldom, if ever, took more than about an hour to get them in & out of Finance.

But there was one place that was just ridiculous. I remember I had a customer call in from another city. We negotiated everything over the phone and agreed on the price. I got him to fill out a credit app on line, and I got all his pertinent info over the phone and pre-loaded into the computer. The guy made an appointment to be there the next day at 9 AM. I got the car cleaned up & ready for him in advance. He got there at 9:30. Guess what time he left.

One o'freakin' o'clock.

Don't ask me why. I don't know. On the other hand, I've waited 3 days for a credit union to approve someone my dealership got approved in 15 minutes.

This is caused by the belief of the management. And the FNI manager that the customers only there to see them also if they think they're not going to make money they slow the whole process ...on purpose