daverupa wrote:It is not the case that Pure Land is describing jhana realms, or anything like them, nor is it describing destinations for non-returners; this is a false equivalency between the descriptors employed in either case (Nikaya v Pure Land), and is misleading.

The similarity would be the goal - reaching the Pure Abodes. But clearly the methodologies are very different.

Broadening it out you could say the similarity of all Buddhist traditions is the goal - enlightenment. But again the methodologies of the various traditions are very different.As for legitimacy I assume all practitioners would regard their own tradition and methodology as legitimate - it seems quite subjective to me.

Zom wrote:No. Because there is no omnipresent Buddha Amitabha, who hears your prayers and invites you to be reborn in pure-land-buddha-heaven. End of story

Party-pooper.

Omnipresent Buddha -- no; but how about a deva hearing some prayers and inviting people to his deva realm, perhaps nimmanarati-devas or paranimmita-vasavatti devas? Could that be possible?

Amitabha Buddha isn't a deva.

This is what it says in the Buddhist Studies section at Buddhanet...

Who is Amitabha?

According to Mahayana Buddhist sutras he was a king in the remote period of time. Renouncing his kingdom, he became a monk and was named Dharmakara, which means 'Treasury of Dharma'. Inspired by the teachings of the then Buddha of that time, Lokesvaraja Buddha, who taught him the way to supreme enlightenment many aeons ago, he made forty eight great vows for the saving of the sentient beings. The Eighteenth Vow, which is the basis of the Pure Land, ran like this: 'If upon the attainment of Buddhahood all sentient beings in the ten quarters who aspire in sincerity and faith to be reborn in my land, recite my name up to ten times and fail to be born there, then may I not attain the Perfect Enlightenment…'

Since then, the Bodhisattva Dharmakara, after five aeons of self-cultivation, finally attained the Supreme Enlightenment and became the Buddha Amitabha. This means that his grand and infinitely compassionate vow is now a reality, the paradise known as Pure Land or Sukhavati has been established, suffering beings must and will be delivered if only they will have the full faith to call upon his name.

Calling the Buddha's name with full faith is known to the Chinese as 'NIEN-FWO' meaning 'Prayer-recitation'. The Japanese term for this practice is known as 'Nembutsu'. In this practice three important qualities must be present in the mind: Sincerity, Faith and Aspiration to be reborn in the Pure Land. The simple prayer or formula that one needs to repeat is:

"NAMO O-MI-TO FWO"

One may repeat it in Sanskrit 'Namo Amitabha Buddha' which literally mans 'Homage to the Amitabha Buddha ' or 'I seek refuge in the Amitabha Buddha'.

Amitabha's Sukhavati buddhafield is a place where ordinary beings can go and attain enlightenment. Not a place where people can go to enjoy sensual pleasures for all of eternity like in the Abrahamic faiths. That's how may it seem like on a superficial level but it's certainly not the case. This is the reason why Pure Land hasn't become very popular in the west, it reminds them too much of their former religion of Christianity.

Buddhafields of Mahayana are a lot like the pure abodes found in your own tradition.

Disciple wrote:Buddhafields of Mahayana are a lot like the pure abodes found in your own tradition.

Not at all, as already discussed, above.

Trying to draw this similarity is an odd strategy, in any event, since it implicitly acquiesces to the provenance of the Nikayic textual layers as well as the lateness of Mahayanic ideations, which is basically QED.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

one of tsu tzi organisationin pure land where they did a lot of dana and sila which is very praised... just rarely stress on dhamma study and mental development

that is why you see many mahayana buddhist either pray or more accurate worship buddha and amitabha as god or deity... or they converted to christianity inorder to salvage to heaven.... this is because ignorant of dhamma, though they are buddhist

Awakened_Angel wrote:one of tsu tzi organisationin pure land where they did a lot of dana and sila which is very praised... just rarely stress on dhamma study and mental development

that is why you see many mahayana buddhist either pray or more accurate worship buddha and amitabha as god or deity... or they converted to christianity inorder to salvage to heaven.... this is because ignorant of dhamma, though they are buddhist

I'm half-Chinese and my Chinese grandma prays to Buddha as a God. I haven't been able to tease out the intricacies of her thoughts about it as her English isn't very good and I don't speak Mandarin. I don't think she knows what kind of Buddhist she is but I think the influence of Pure Land (and Mahayana in general) has influenced Chinese folk religion which has influenced her.