(31-10-2012 09:53 AM)LadyJane Wrote: Sorry, I'm still not clear on what you are saying. Are you saying you have an issue with hillbilly being seen as an okay and acceptable term (as in people who consider themselves 'hillbilly' should be proud) or are you saying that the term hillbilly is strictly negative and should only be associated with a negative connotation?

You are right, I don't mean to be insulting. I'd love to clarify what I am trying to say but I want to make sure we are on the same page for terms.

The thing about being offended or feeling insulted is that there is a difference between personal attack and general meaning. Also, this is a thread you started about hidden prejudice we may have, so I am already saying I don't desire to have these things and I already identify them as something wrong in my nature- pointing that out again and 're-calling' me on it just makes me want to crawl into a shell since it's already a tough topic and I am not someone who likes to go around offending and insulting others. Just sayin'

I am just saying it is generally accepted to be okay used as a derogatory term. Obviously I don't have a problem with it being used since I'm a self described hillbilly. I am just saying the stereotype for hillbilly's is not necessarily true, but it is one of the few terms which is still "okay" to use. It is generally accepted that hillbillies are stupid, ignorant, backwards, poor, technological incompetent, farmers and moonshiners, dresses poorly, wears no shoes, has few teeth, is inbred, racist, homophobic, and incapable of grasping complex ideas. In many ways it is used as "nigger", but for white folks. The biggest differences is that "hillbilly" is still 'okay'. You can go on TV and call some ignorant racist a "hillbilly" and people will applaud, whether he is truly a hillbilly or not. When I say I am a hillbilly I am obviously saying that I am a person from the hills of southern Appalachia. I am not proud of it anymore that I am proud to be white, or American. This are not things I chose, it's just part of who I am.

Oh okay. I get it. Either way, if what I am saying offends you, sorry. Trying to describe my thoughts and feelings and how I am working on it is the truth though.

The town I was talking about, the people joke and talk about being self described hillbillies, so this label attached to them. They'd throw the term 'trash' around at each other. I can't recall hearing 'white trash' but everyone in that town was white, so it didn't really need to be said. A lot of them were nice people, as any individual can be, but a good handful were ignorant, homophobic and abusive. They made anti-woman jokes all the time, often to me thinking I'd be in on it- or just plain not even realize what they were saying was hateful and victimizing. They'd kill their pets if the pets 'misbehaved' saying they had bad blood (???). Being surrounded by this for a few years jaded me and I became a bitter person, which is sooo not me before or after I lived there. The environment was poison. So, I developed a prejudism to people who look or acted like the people I met there. I've only been away from this town for a few months and I've realized how people I meet now I associate with there, but these people are not truly like those people- and I have to own the responsibility of knowing the difference. Appearances can strike a nerve in our psyche. Same thing if we run into someone who looks like an ex or someone who bullied us or whatever. It's a survival mechanism for steering our own personal course. It's a judgement call to make choices and guard ourselves. It is something often learned through experiences and it's helpful to be conscious of, I think that is the point of being self aware of our perceptions. Yes racial is cultural, but racial is racial based on the general 'appearance' of a culture. 'Hippie' doesn't have a race, but there is still an appearance. Same with 'Ravers' or 'Emo' or whatever.

Vera, I like what you say here

Quote:anyway, what I meant to say was that in my experience it's so wonderful to completely forget about race, so much so that a person's race doesn't really register with you,

That is a beautiful place to be. When I was a child I was completely this way. Now, not that race or culture is the first thing I think about when I meet someone, but it is a dominant impression. Not that that is bad, but it's nice to have people on a level neutral ground before a person gets to know them.

An experience I had this morning. Strolled into a 24 hour sandwich shop at 4:AM this morning seeking much needed coffee and some grub. The place is empty and no one is behind the counter. At this point I begin to notice the back of my belly button scraping the front of my spine but I'm a relatively patient person so I wait. Tap foot. Rap fingers on counter top. Begin to whistle. Whistle loudly. Yell "HELLO...?" towards the back of the place and finally a guy pokes his head out and says he'll be right with me. He's got food prep gloves on with home made looking tatoos of big block letters spanning the full length of his arm. My first thought was "hurry up before I call your probation officer" and then I thought of this thread! A prejudice is a pre conceived opinion based on no prior knowledge or previous experience. So I don't know this guy but my first impression is that he's an ex convict and it's not like he's asking my daughters hand in marriage, I just need him to make me a sandwich. But what if I was about to ask this guy to handle my investments? Or, care for a new born or elderly parent? I guess the op covers that basic premise. But where is the line that separates prejudice between bigotry? I think the onus is more on the part of the person being perceived rather than the one doing the perceiving. Easier to do on an individual level than as a group. This is one reason why I value individualism above being a part of the tribe.

At any rate the guy came out and was very apologetic about making me wait. He engaged me in a polite and professional manner. He recognized the logo on my uniform and revealed that he was from the same area I live at about 700 miles away. The conversation totally dispelled me from what I had initially thought of the guy. Perhaps I'll have my daughter in tow the next time I'm in there and see what kind of sparks will happen...?

(11-11-2012 12:53 AM)Grassy Knoll Wrote: An experience I had this morning. Strolled into a 24 hour sandwich shop at 4:AM this morning seeking much needed coffee and some grub. The place is empty and no one is behind the counter. At this point I begin to notice the back of my belly button scraping the front of my spine but I'm a relatively patient person so I wait. Tap foot. Rap fingers on counter top. Begin to whistle. Whistle loudly. Yell "HELLO...?" towards the back of the place and finally a guy pokes his head out and says he'll be right with me. He's got food prep gloves on with home made looking tatoos of big block letters spanning the full length of his arm. My first thought was "hurry up before I call your probation officer" and then I thought of this thread! A prejudice is a pre conceived opinion based on no prior knowledge or previous experience. So I don't know this guy but my first impression is that he's an ex convict and it's not like he's asking my daughters hand in marriage, I just need him to make me a sandwich. But what if I was about to ask this guy to handle my investments? Or, care for a new born or elderly parent? I guess the op covers that basic premise. But where is the line that separates prejudice between bigotry? I think the onus is more on the part of the person being perceived rather than the one doing the perceiving. Easier to do on an individual level than as a group. This is one reason why I value individualism above being a part of the tribe.

At any rate the guy came out and was very apologetic about making me wait. He engaged me in a polite and professional manner. He recognized the logo on my uniform and revealed that he was from the same area I live at about 700 miles away. The conversation totally dispelled me from what I had initially thought of the guy. Perhaps I'll have my daughter in tow the next time I'm in there and see what kind of sparks will happen...?

A revealing tale. Thank you.

But you missed the one pertinent observation that would help the rest of us make up our prejudiced minds about this guy....

But you missed the one pertinent observation that would help the rest of us make up our prejudiced minds about this guy....

How good was the sandwich?

Oh that's good. I was afraid you would ask his race. He made me ham, egg and tomato sprinkled with black pepper on an english muffin. It was delicious!

Really? You thought for even a second that I might be racist? Ouch!

What matters is the quality of the food, the attention to detail and the quality of the service.

Skin colour is completely irrelevant.

I enjoy diversity. And diversity is a fundamental requirement for a healthy, growing, evolving society.

As long as this is balanced with a degree of assimilation or there will be chaos... a clash of cultures.
Different outlooks, opinions and approaches? Wonderful.
Different and competing legal systems? No.

If they want to join our society, fine, no problem... as long as the food is edible they are welcome to the jobs we don't want to do. As long as they are polite, clean up afterwards and leave our women alone.

DLJ Wrote:If they want to join our society, fine, no problem... as long as the food is edible they are welcome to the jobs we don't want to do. As long as they are polite, clean up afterwards and leave our women alone.

I certainly hope this is a case of that wonderful British humour, because
it does sound quite bigoted. Not to mention the fact that it sounds
like women are objects to be possessed.

Having a them vs. us attitude, I think, is ultimately harmful to a harmonious society.

Buuuuuuuut, you being you DLJ, I don't think you meant it in a bigoted way.

DLJ Wrote:If they want to join our society, fine, no problem... as long as the food is edible they are welcome to the jobs we don't want to do. As long as they are polite, clean up afterwards and leave our women alone.

I certainly hope this is a case of that wonderful British humour, because
it does sound quite bigoted. Not to mention the fact that it sounds
like women are objects to be possessed.

Having a them vs. us attitude, I think, is ultimately harmful to a harmonious society.

Buuuuuuuut, you being you DLJ, I don't think you meant it in a bigoted way.

It's true, we can't do irony at all. Or at least I can't. I think that I take people very literally, even though I'm always joking around. Unrelated but: I remember in High School, I was in one of my classes, and the teacher used some play on words and I didn't get it at all. But the foreign exchange student from Germany that was sitting next to me was in stitches. I was so ashamed.