TCW vs. Rebels debates are not allowed in the Television forum. As in, discussions that descend into TCW/Rebels bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Contrasting the themes, story lines, characters, etc. between the shows is allowed (welcomed, even). "Versus" debates/arguments, however, are a deal-breaker.

Sit tight, the hero has to lose to make the bad guy a threat. Obi-Wan's had a tough season, I know, but I'm rooting for him in Season 5. The fact that Yoda has faith in Obi-Wan to take Maul out gives me faith that Obi-Wan will eventually do it.

Anakin_Prime said:

Witch crap. Check

This is a very different element in Star Wars, so I get why its jarring to some of you guys. They obviously wanted to bring something unique to the the table since they have so many seasons to go. It would have been boring if it were the same battles from here on out. I'm personally intrigued by it and I'm eager to see where the story takes us next.

Anakin_Prime said:

Nobody died. Check (I have come to believe there will be no big deaths. Ahsoka will definitely live.)

Thank God no one died. I was afraid Assaj would bite it. Maul and Savage just got together, so that would have been a lame build up. The sooner they kill people off, the less they can do with the development of those characters.

Anakin_Prime said:

One last thing, damn, Maul is one quick learner huh?

I think Maul is more plausible as remembering his Sith skills. Savage learning so quickly was a bit of a harder pill to swallow back in Season 3. Well, I see where you're coming from with this one. Just like I see the tough time people have with Maul coming back after getting cut in half. But we are past that origin story now and they have an opportunity to develop a compelling story with this mix of characters, Obi-wan and Ventress versus Maul and Savage. It creates an interesting thread to follow, something unique from the films.

There are two ways this episode made Darth Maul's survival satisfactory. Brothers only went part of the way to a satisfactory explanation by showing he hadn't survived intact but rather barely survived in a severely physically and mentally damaged state.

This was about the only part of this awful roll-out that they got right. Even then, they reversed the choice by having him magically restored to his former glory.

A bold, interesting narrative direction would have been to leave Maul handicapped. Exploiting his knowledge of Sidious's long term plans, and using Savage as his enforcer, he could have been a serious player in the Clone Wars even with only half a body. That could have been an important way to show that that there's more to being successful than simple martial prowess (but I guess they abandoned that path when they made Yoda an expert duelist in AOTC). Likewise, having Maul continue to struggle with mental instability would have been a much more evocative look at the consequences of the Dark Side than the "it makes you lose beauty contests" issue we see with Palpatine.

To be honest, though, I didn't seriously expect a children's show to go in this direction. But it's worth noting what might have been.

in Tales of the Jedi there actually is a Sith Lord who is just a decapitated head. I always thought that was an awesome idea.

I really don't mean to be rude but... that explains a lot.

Well, you totally fail at not being rude.

Jabba-wocky said:

Dark_Lord_Tarkas said:

There are two ways this episode made Darth Maul's survival satisfactory. Brothers only went part of the way to a satisfactory explanation by showing he hadn't survived intact but rather barely survived in a severely physically and mentally damaged state.

This was about the only part of this awful roll-out that they got right. Even then, they reversed the choice by having him magically restored to his former glory.

A bold, interesting narrative direction would have been to leave Maul handicapped. Exploiting his knowledge of Sidious's long term plans, and using Savage as his enforcer, he could have been a serious player in the Clone Wars even with only half a body. That could have been an important way to show that that there's more to being successful than simple martial prowess (but I guess they abandoned that path when they made Yoda an expert duelist in AOTC). Likewise, having Maul continue to struggle with mental instability would have been a much more evocative look at the consequences of the Dark Side than the "it makes you lose beauty contests" issue we see with Palpatine.

To be honest, though, I didn't seriously expect a children's show to go in this direction. But it's worth noting what might have been.

Agreed, and agreed. I also wish they kept him as a deranged, partial-Gollum figure, and I'm also continually surprised at what this show is willing to do for a supposed kids' show.

Then I am really sorry and apologize for my comment. I just meant that it made evident what sort of thing you found awesome, which makes it easier for me to understand your stances on certain subjects.

This episode is probably going to be a 9 again. I need to watch it again once I'm in a better frame of mind. I definately saw the end as a cliff hanger and am interesting in see what happens with Maul's plans.

I have to say I dissagree with people saying Maul could just be switched out with some other lightsaber weilding villian. Who is he going to be changed out for? Dooku? I don't think we can have very many generic lightsaber weilding villians of the week, where are all these darksiders going to come out of the woodwork? It would be lame to get another monster of the week like Krell so soon or to copy him 10 different times until the end. Maul isn't just some monster of the day meant to be killed off at the end of this episode.

I don't see how this meets any definition of a "cliffhanger." Yes, there were some unresolved issues, but no more than in any other episode. There is nothing acutely at stake, and no clocks are ticking. Everyone in is safe, in their own headquarters, and making their own plans. The only reason we have to tune in next time is to see the continuing adventures of the Clone Wars. That's not a cliffhanger. That's called an episode.

I don't see how this meets any definition of a "cliffhanger." Yes, there were some unresolved issues, but no more than in any other episode. There is nothing acutely at stake, and no clocks are ticking. Everyone in is safe, in their own headquarters, and making their own plans. The only reason we have to tune in next time is to see the continuing adventures of the Clone Wars. That's not a cliffhanger. That's called an episode.

Yes Obi-wan and Ventress are fine. That Ventress has gotten alot of development from "Nightsisters" to "Revenge" gives me more hope there can be consequence in TCW. Particularly in dealing with any of these characters. Anything Ventress is easily the most advanced thread in the series. But I didn't see any magic reset button pressed. To me the magic reset button is Maul and Savage dead. To me it feels like a cliffhanger.

Im glad that that the writers allowed kids to die in this show. It's sad that it happened, but it really brought a sense of realism (kids can die in war time). It also showed how much of a Monster Maul really is (not that he wasn't before). It was also a nice ROTS nod. What made it worse is that, the kids were HUMAN. It's different then killing aliens. Sure it would still be horrible for Maul to kill alien kids, however....them being human....makes it even worse since its more of a connection to the real world.

Also did Ventress lose a lightsaber? She never used both in the duel, because she lent one to Obiwan. But the one she was using got knocked behind some boxes, and then she got her other lightsaber from Obiwan when he retrieved his from Maul. However we the audience never saw her retrieve her lost lightsaber. And from what i can remember, she escaped with Obiwan with just one lightsaber.

An iconic part of Ventress, is her having duel curved red blades.

Of course maybe it was just a goof by the writers in not showing us her having both blades at the end.

Of course if it was intentional for the writers to have her lose a blade. Perhaps she can get it back if she duels Maul or Savage again (perhaps one of them kept it as a prize). Of course there is a possibility that the lightsaber behind the boxes went out into space when the airlock came off.

I'm actually just as interested to see how the Jedi Council will react as I am to see what Darth Maul will plan. Savage was right - since Obi-Wan escaped, the Jedi will know they survived.

Wait, survived as in the Jedi did not know or survived as in Obi-Wan never injured them. Didn't the Jedi already know they were alive from Brothers?

I only seen clips and I don't want to see the full episode.

I'm sure the latter was meant. Survived their encounter with Obi-Wan.

Yes, that's right.

Jabba-wocky said:

I don't see how this meets any definition of a "cliffhanger." Yes, there were some unresolved issues, but no more than in any other episode. There is nothing acutely at stake, and no clocks are ticking. Everyone in is safe, in their own headquarters, and making their own plans. The only reason we have to tune in next time is to see the continuing adventures of the Clone Wars. That's not a cliffhanger. That's called an episode.

It's a cliff-hanger because we know for a fact there's going to be a follow-up, so there's suspense as to what the follow-up will be.

Oh I think TCW could find a way to kill him. The Sith could kill him, grow a clone, get Talzin to program the clone and infitrate the Jedi Order with that clone. Obi-Clone wouldn't even know he wasn't the real Kenobi and in the series finale the Force ghost of the real Obi-Wan could return and enter the clone's body - thus returning him to life, but at a high cost.

Overtaking the clone body would cost Obi-Wan his short term memory, so he wouldn'd remember that he already learned how to Force Ghost later when Yoda talks to him about Qui-Gon.

Im glad that that the writers allowed kids to die in this show. It's sad that it happened, but it really brought a sense of realism (kids can die in war time). It also showed how much of a Monster Maul really is (not that he wasn't before). It was also a nice ROTS nod. What made it worse is that, the kids were HUMAN. It's different then killing aliens. Sure it would still be horrible for Maul to kill alien kids, however....them being human....makes it even worse since its more of a connection to the real world.

Also did Ventress lose a lightsaber? She never used both in the duel, because she lent one to Obiwan. But the one she was using got knocked behind some boxes, and then she got her other lightsaber from Obiwan when he retrieved his from Maul. However we the audience never saw her retrieve her lost lightsaber. And from what i can remember, she escaped with Obiwan with just one lightsaber.

An iconic part of Ventress, is her having duel curved red blades.

Of course maybe it was just a goof by the writers in not showing us her having both blades at the end.

Of course if it was intentional for the writers to have her lose a blade. Perhaps she can get it back if she duels Maul or Savage again (perhaps one of them kept it as a prize). Of course there is a possibility that the lightsaber behind the boxes went out into space when the airlock came off.

I have to admit at times it just feels like TCW whips out brutal violence for the sake of shock value. This time Maul slaughtering a whole village mostly off screen including kids moved the plot of the episode. TCW amazes me with how far it can go. They've gone from putting kids in serious danger to killing little alien kids to killing teen girls to killing preteen girls and now this. All in a show on CN that still carries the PG rating. Toonami never would of aired that stuff. If I recall correctly it was the seen homaged in "Revenge" that was one of the things (along with Anakin burning alive) that got ROTS a PG-13 rating.

Seerow: Ratings are overrated. But at least that whole discussion of TCW cannot kill of Ahsoka due to her age is now gone.

Robimus said:

GGrievous said:

Well, we already know Obi-Wan will survive regardless moving forward.

Oh I think TCW could find a way to kill him. The Sith could kill him, grow a clone, get Talzin to program the clone and infitrate the Jedi Order with that clone. Obi-Clone wouldn't even know he wasn't the real Kenobi and in the series finale the Force ghost of the real Obi-Wan could return and enter the clone's body - thus returning him to life, but at a high cost.

Overtaking the clone body would cost Obi-Wan his short term memory, so he wouldn'd remember that he already learned how to Force Ghost later when Yoda talks to him about Qui-Gon.

If they do this I'm totally taking credit.

heh, I can see them doing that. Even though they "killed" Obi-Wan once in TCW and he was said to be dead after the Battle of Jabiim, Obi-Four will appear soon in TCW. I don't think the original Obi-Wan survived past his Knight years.