you need help:I will never go to the doctor in my lifetime, so this is nothing but butthurt for me.

But if you chose to skip health coverage, it would be more than butthurt. I've opted out of healthcare previously simply because my company will pay me a special bonus for opting out, because they still save money after the bonus. Nothing has changed for them, but now I cannot do that anymore.

Jon Snow:Just a reminder, the best deal in individual health care is to refuse to buy in to the mandate.

If you refuse to buy into the mandate your still have to pay $95.

Which is $95 more than "free loaders" who "couldn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and "carry their weight" were paying into the system to cover their healthcare costs in the existing system.

No one is saying this is perfect legislation, far from it. However, it does further the "liberal" moral imperative of having universal coverage for all and the "conservative" moral imperative of "free loaders pulling their weight" (the Glorious and Innately Efficient Free Market Private Enterprise, to boot).

The thing that most conservatives are forgetting is that it is extremely common to be fined aka "taxed", for not having insurance. Most states require people to have auto insurance, where is the outrage over that? I have to have homeowners insurance, where is the outrage over that? Many people have to have flood insurance, where is the outrage over that? you get the point.

And before babbling on about "OMG biggest tax increase EVAR!!!" crunch the numbers and see how many people are likely to get fined in 2014 and how many exceptions have already been given out and how many more applications for exceptions will now be flowing in due to this being upheld. If you have a year and a half to get healthcare insurance and don't, you probably deserve to get fined as there are many programs to help those who cannot afford it. I predict that the majority of those who will be fined will be the tea-bagging type who want a confrontation.

We can only hope. I consider myself more to the right of center, but single payer is the only real way to do this.

Now there is absolutely ZERO reason for a health insurance company to lower premiums. They know people will buy insurance (if it's cheaper than the tax), so they can keep their prices just high enough so the cost/benefit is to buy the insurance instead of paying the tax. That's the magic premium cost right there. And, that'll be for a super-high deductible plan as well. Everything else will cost more. All the other companies will do the same (effectively an oligopoly). This won't make insurance any cheaper.

Insurance can't be cheaper unless

1) Preventive measures are moneterily incentivized for policy holders

2) Procedures' & medications' prices are controlled

3) Insurance companies are run like non-profits so that admin/exec/ marketing expenditures are

fluffytuff:Anti_illuminati: fluffytuff: I'm not a very political person, and I haven't really kept up on this whole Obamacare thing. Can somebody explain to me just what the hell happened, or provide a link that explains it short bus style?

/thanks

If you don't have health insurance, when you file your taxes, you'll have to pay a bit more or receive a little less.

So wait...

Currently I'm working two jobs that don't provide healthcare. My kids are covered, but my wife and I are not. Healthcare is not very affordable at the moment for my wife and I. Will this make healthcare more affordable at all? Or am I going to be stuck with a $400+ a month paying for a private healthcare company? If so, then this bill sucks. I got just slapped with an expensive car payment.

/somebody please correct me if I'm wrong

Get a better job! It's not our fault you're poor! You need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and be responsible for once! Us Real AmericansTM are sick of paying for idiots like you who get cancer and walk in front of trucks! If you couldn't afford to take care of yourself, you shouldn't have gotten married, and god help us, procreate! You're the one increasing my taxes and health insurance premiums by not being financial sound, forcing us to foot the bill for these health issues! Healthcare is not a right! The hell is wrong with you!

/god that hurt to type//yes it's going to make health insurance more affordable, no it will not make healthcare more affordable.

WombatControl:bdub77: Doesn't matter. Americans got health care. This is a win for the American people, not just Obama. Obama will now go down as the first president who got Americans health care. His legacy in that regard, not to mention countless other things he's done as president, will solidify him as one of the greats.

And yes I expect him to fully whip Romney's ass in November.

WHISKY. TANGO. FOXTROT.

Really? Now Americans have health care? You mean no one in this country had health care prior to Obama? Is this what you really think?

Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.

Nothing is free. Health care is not free, and it can't be made free by government fiat. If the liberals got their way we'd have a system in which everyone but the ultra rich who could afford private insurace (or black-market care) is stuck waiting in lines for treatments they may never get.

If the statists got their way and we magically had an NHS-style system in the United States there would be riots in the streets because Americans do not take kindly to the government dictating to them what they can and cannot have. At least those Americans who still believe in the spirit of this nation's Founding, anyway.

You know, our system also rations care. We just happen to ration it by telling people who can't afford it that they don't get anything at all rather than anything approaching sanity in terms of what care will actually, you know, help people.

vpb:MasterThief: Silver lining based on SCOTUSBlog: The mandate was not a legit use of the commerce clause, but it was OK as a tax.

So yes, Obama and the Democrats did, in fact, raise taxes on the middle class. After repeatedly promising not to.Except that the tax is only on people who don't get insurance. So no, he didnt' unless you think all or most of the middle class will refuse insurance.

there is so much fail there, all in just two sentences.

/hint for you sherlock: most middle class will refuse it cause the CAN'T AFFORD IT.//the stupid, it hurts. too bad i can't afford insurance to get it looked at.

If someone can't afford to stay competitive, why do they deserve to compete?

If someone can't afford to keep working, why do they deserve to work?

If someone can't afford to stay healthy, why do they deserve health?

If someone can't afford to stay alive, why do they deserve to live?

You get what you pay for. If you can't afford to pay, well... I suppose it's polite to pretend that it was nice knowing you, but you aren't much use anymore, are you?

And if you disagree with all of the above statements, great! Politics takes money. If someone can't afford a lobbyist or a campaign, why do they deserve to have an opinion?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Lawnchair:SuperT: So what about working poor whose employers don't offer insurance, they pay the tax that they can ill afford and what do they get in return? Do they get health care in return? Can someone fill me in on how this doesn't fark over the uninsured? I don't think we had a problem with people refusing or choosing not to have insurance, just unable to afford not offered or refused by insurance co.

Sure. Let me do my best.

Said employees will be directed toward the state-run exchanges for individual insurance. Mostly private providers, but at least Vermont will have a public option. The exchange plans will be community-rated and not subject to denial due to pre-existing conditions.

For anyone 'working poor' (let's say, under $50k family income), there are *huge* subsidies written in PPACA for purchasing insurance. Now, the actual funding for those subsidies is subject to the appropriations process each year, so that could get very dicey.

But, part of PPACA is that if a 'silver' plan (minus the subsidies) in the exchange costs more than 8% of your household gross income, you're exempt. If the subsidies are slaughtered, over half the nation would be exempt from the mandate.

This latter is an important point. Because you're exempt if your income is below a threshold, Roberts found that it is an income tax, not a capitation/poll tax in violation of the Constitution.

As a fellow Vermonter, have you noticed the Vermont government has absolutely no clue what Shumlins' universal health care dream will cost? We are already number 1 in taxes per capita and 49th in economic outlook. Can only get so much blood from so few turnips.

CommieTaoist:The thing that most conservatives are forgetting is that it is extremely common to be fined aka "taxed", for not having insurance. Most states require people to have auto insurance, where is the outrage over that? I have to have homeowners insurance, where is the outrage over that? Many people have to have flood insurance, where is the outrage over that? you get the point.

And if you don't have auto insurance, what do some states require? You pay an "uninsured motorist's fee" to the DMV, and everyone goes about their day.

Thunderpipes:Weird, Obama stated over and over this is not a tax. Now he argues it is.

At least they shot down the forced Medicaid expansion. That will throw a big wrench into his plans. 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes. Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you. Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you. Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Now liberals, if we get a Republican advantage, how about we implement a tax on the unemployed? No job? Fine, pay a tax. I know you think you just won, but you just screwed everyone equally with another erosion of individual rights.

Rent a house? Pay taxes. Not Married? Pay taxes. Don't have children? Pay taxes...Oh we do that now already.

Krymson Tyde:Roberts is more evil than Obama. He pretended to be a conservative, but he is nothing more than another beltway liberal who is more interested in cultivating his Washington society friendships than he is in protecting the Constitution, or the rights and liberties of Americans.

There are tens of millions of Americans pretending to be Conservatives. I think the movement is called the Tea Party.

optimistic_cynic:Yeah I'm amazed how many people forget that this is a government created for the people by the people. Heaven forbid we want to pool our resources/risk to get the best possible return for our healthcare investment.

Why would they do that? Obama would get to appoint another justice, who would surely be more liberal than Roberts.

You have forgotten that most Freepers are also "Birthers". After Justice Roberts is impeached, they will continue their efforts to prove that President Obama is not Constitutionally eligible to hold office. Upon succeeding, which they are confident will occur at Any Day Now, all acts and appointments of Obama will be reversed and Sarah Palin will automatically become President.

So.... because they're a bunch of damned fools is what you're telling me? Unpossible! They're salt of the earth real Murikans that just want their country back!

SuperT:So what about working poor whose employers don't offer insurance, they pay the tax that they can ill afford and what do they get in return? Do they get health care in return? Can someone fill me in on how this doesn't fark over the uninsured? I don't think we had a problem with people refusing or choosing not to have insurance, just unable to afford not offered or refused by insurance co.

bhcompy:you need help: I will never go to the doctor in my lifetime, so this is nothing but butthurt for me.

But if you chose to skip health coverage, it would be more than butthurt. I've opted out of healthcare previously simply because my company will pay me a special bonus for opting out, because they still save money after the bonus. Nothing has changed for them, but now I cannot do that anymore.

And as a mortal human being you are eventually going to get sick and die, and if you were uninsured those costs would have been covered by the insured.

You were simply gambling (with other people's money) that was going to happen later rather than sooner. I shed no tears for you, and you get no sympathy from me.

bhcompy:you need help: I will never go to the doctor in my lifetime, so this is nothing but butthurt for me.

But if you chose to skip health coverage, it would be more than butthurt. I've opted out of healthcare previously simply because my company will pay me a special bonus for opting out, because they still save money after the bonus. Nothing has changed for them, but now I cannot do that anymore.

Sure you can. What part of the law prevents you from doing that? Why wouldn't you, if the bonus was more than the tax for not carrying health insurance?

Also, I don't see why the rest of us should be paying for your uninsured ass to visit the emergency room.

Thunderpipes:17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following

90% of HSA plans will not qualify by the way. Remember when you could keep your current insurance? 14 million people use HSA plans. So over 12 million people will be forced to drop their plans or pay more just on that alone.

It is a loss for Obama, Vodka posting moron. He will lost millions of votes because of this. The Medicaid part screws his plans, and all America loses. This is bad news, for Obama.

I have money, so I'll be enjoying sitting back and watch this play out over the next couple of years. This is going to be good! I actually have a tingly feeling running up my leg over how I expect this to play out. Bwahahaha!