Good point David - this may be an excellent time for the Greeks to run a fire sale on old iron. They need a bit of cash right now.

Joe, absolutely correct. AOS successes doesn't do anything but support preservation of endangered resources and encourage the rest of us to get it together and set up war chests to do the same instead of waiting and whining after the fact. As an industry we need all the success we can find, and should mutually support each other.

_________________"Techies never minded eating bits and jots of their work. They were grit and grease inside and out and could turn a pile of junk into a magical kingdom."

Andrea Hairston

airforcerail

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:34 pm

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 amPosts: 111

train guy wrote:

Quote:

I collect and restore military equipment as well. So I had my heart set on purchasing, restoring, and operating the USA 612. I have been watching it for a long time. When I heard AoS bought it, I was a little heartbroken.

So what were you waiting for? If you wanted it, why didn't you buy it? JJJ did.

I am well versed in the he who can/does act first wins. It happens a lot in the military vehicle hobby.

All of my funds were tied up in the startup of my shortline, plus I didn't have a suitable location to keep it or even start working on it yet. I didn't want to purchase it without have a firm promise of a secure, safe future for it. It didn't need to become another kit engine in constant danger. I was trying to do the right thing and wait until all was ready. I am glad the engine will be taken care of- hopefully it will be returned to operation.

I am also well aware of the other S160 engines overseas, especially the 5 in Greece. Moving an engine from GA to SC would have been easier than from Greece to SC. I can only hope they don't get scrapped in the next 6months to a year then I might be in a position to pull something off and bring one (hopefully 2 or more for a parts supply, maybe all 5 if the price is right) back 'home'.

When a deep-pocketed organization buys a loco, that to me is cause for major celebration because now I don't have to spend any of my own money on helping to save it. The loco has just been preserved for "free"!

When a deep-pocketed organization buys a loco, that to me is cause for major celebration because now I don't have to spend any of my own money on helping to save it. The loco has just been preserved for "free"!

The mentions of Paulson Spence and Dick Jensen earlier in this thread highlight the concerns overall. Most of us have difficulty imagining a situation where a collection and facility like AOS keeps plugging along like it is, long after Jacobson has passed on (hopefully many years in the future). Even Nelson Blount's collection was culled out when Steamtown was moved, but at least those weren't scrapped.That's why I'm confused overall with what the long-haul end result is. Sure, Jacobson probably staked a literal trainload of cash into this, but we all know there's always the upkeep. I have a hard time visualizing AOS moving along like this, in, say, 10-20 years or longer after he's passed on.

I have a hard time visualizing AOS moving along like this, in, say, 10-20 years or longer after he's passed on.

I have a hard time visualizing how a lot of railroad museums and preservation organizations that exist now are going to be moving along like they are no, in say, 10-20 years or longer. Most of them have no real long-term plan for survival, no fundraising, no substantial facilities, let alone a long term vision.

What I don't worry about is AOS. It should have a solid foundation that will enable it, when it goes non-profit in the future, to last for a long time.

What is interesting to note, is that Age of Steam, LTD is the business entity operating the facility now. In Ohio, it is registered as a for profit, limited liability company. "Age of Steam" and "Age of Steam Roundhouse" are registered trade names of this company. What this tells me is that we are still in the early stages of what is to come. JJ is building this, and at some point, AOS will go non-profit, with an endowment and the ability to raise funds through tax-deductible contributions.

_________________--David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"

ted101

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:50 pm

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:24 pmPosts: 42

David,

I believe if you do a search you will find a Jerry Jo and Laura Jacobson Foundation that was set up at the time of the sale of the railroad. I was told by a current employee that 30% of the railroad sale went into the foundation (something to do with taxes) It is my understanding that is what built the building, buying/owning the equipment and is the endowment. That would be around 65 million to use. If 25 million or so was used to build the building, then that leaves 40 million left over for equipment, maintenance, taxes and employees.

At a 7% annual return in and investment account, that would be 2.8 million per year as a budget without touching the principal. Not bad. I think most organizations could only dream of that senerio.

Ted

cnj1524

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:24 pm

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:29 amPosts: 52

This is getting halarious,If people even bothered to read his website you will know,WHO,WHAT,WHERE,WHEN,WHY

1. Locomotives are being acquired;2. Said locomotives are being moved to a secure storage facility that is indoors, and better yet, built like a traditional steam era roundhouse, so they are displayed/stored in context;3. Said locomotives are being acquired by an organization that wants to turn this into a long term, non-profit enterprise, and is building massive amounts of infrastructure to support it.

_________________--David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"

sbhunterca

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:01 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 amPosts: 728

David, I hate "Like" buttons intensely, but if there was ever a reason to have one, it would be your comment.

"LIKE!"

Could there perhaps be a slight bit of envy creeping in, just because a man who built a railroad empire and became rich doing it, still loves trains enough to create an incredible home for so much equipment to live in?

JJJ, if you happen to read this, thank you for this example of preserving railroad history!

...and only on RYPN would anyone not be able to understand concerns...

wilkinsd wrote:

3. Said locomotives are being acquired by an organization that wants to turn this into a long term, non-profit enterprise, and is building massive amounts of infrastructure to support it.

Paulson Spence and Dick Jensen (and a few others over the years) wanted a lot, too, and look what happened to the stuff they gathered.There's a reason why people are asking the questions. I know of two (non-RR-related) projects similar to AOS, though not nearly as large in scope, where people with a lot of money put it into a museum and -go figure- the money didn't last forever and I found myself at an auction in each case, watching people pick over the remains like jackals in the wild after a kill.If museums with the backing of numerous volunteers fold up over the long haul, asking questions about the long-term future of AOS (a project with the sole financial backing of one very rich person) is not only quite reasonable, it'd be downright insane not to even ask the question.I get that he put a lot of cash into the initial expense of the land, infrastructure and equipment and has of course done an admirable job so far. yet, I'm still unclear how this place is supposed to generate the large amount money over time that it'll need for simple operating expenses for maintaining the track, buildings and keeping the lights on (not to mention restoration, rebuilding and operating steam locomotives) as it's clearly no museum or tourist attraction/railroad by any previously understood definition.

_________________Lee Bishop

Last edited by p51 on Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Emmo213

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:18 pm

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pmPosts: 256Location: Amherst, Oh

The endowment is supposed to earn money, not necessarily the building/lands/equipment. He can do nothing with any of his physical assets and still make a killing based on interest from the endowment.

And it is a good thing in general if people are asking questions, just for the sanity of the community. I think people are/were semi-concerned about another situation like with the last two existing sharks. That doesn't seem to be Jerry's plan though.

Lincoln Penn

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:21 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pmPosts: 755

IMO, the comparison to Jensen is ridiculous. Jensen was perpetually broke and totally dependent on others to store his stuff. That ended up biting him. He meant well, and worked long and hard to make his dreams come true, but that is completely different from the AoS situation.

Spence intended to build a new railroad, and started gathering locomotives to power it. The road never got built, so the locos had no purpose for his estate.

...and only on RYPN would anyone not be able to understand concerns...

wilkinsd wrote:

3. Said locomotives are being acquired by an organization that wants to turn this into a long term, non-profit enterprise, and is building massive amounts of infrastructure to support it.

Paulson Spence and Dick Jensen (and a few others over the years) wanted a lot, too, and look what happened to the stuff they gathered.There's a reason why people are asking the questions. I know of two (non-RR-related) projects similar to AOS, though not nearly as large in scope, where people with a lot of money put it into a museum and -go figure- the money didn't last forever and I found myself at an auction in each case, watching people pick over the remains like jackals in the wild after a kill.If museums with the backing of numerous volunteers fold up over the long haul, asking questions about the long-term future of AOS (a project with the sole financial backing of one very rich person) is not only quite reasonable, it'd be downright insane not to even ask the question.I get that he put a lot of cash into the initial expense of the land, infrastructure and equipment and has of course done an admirable job so far. yet, I'm still unclear how this place is supposed to generate the large amount money over time that it'll need for simple operating expenses for maintaining the track, buildings and keeping the lights on (not to mention restoration, rebuilding and operating steam locomotives) as it's clearly no museum or tourist attraction/railroad by any previously understood definition.

I find your histronics on this subject to be somewhat confunding andamusings. JJJ/AOS doesn't have to answer to us or anyone. We aren't some sort of "court of railway preservation righteousness" that can somehow pass an enforceable judgment on the whole plan. The whole plan probably hasn't been revealed. There's nothing preventing volunteers, or seeking donations, etc., in the future.

At the end of the day, none of us, either as individuals (JJJ, WM303, etc) or as museums really "own" the artifacts. We are custodians, working to ensure that the artifacts are enjoyed by future generations. Sometimes that means we don't own something very long, or we care for it long enough to find a better home. I cannot think of a single piece of equipment in the AOS collection that was in a better home, or had a better outlook before it moved to the roundhouse.

If this is just a grand failure after 20-30 years, as you seemingly want this to be, and there is an auction, and the collection is scattered to better homes, it will be a failure, but also a success, as several of the locomotives may not have still been with us, or in that good of shape had they not been part of the AOS collection.

_________________--David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"

train guy

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:44 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pmPosts: 140

I think AoS is great! If I had his money, I'd do the same thing! Would you really rather see M&NF #12 continue to rot away in Clearfield! I just hope that someday I can tour this facility and maybe shake Mr. Jacobson's hand and thank him for what he has accomplished.

steamfan765

Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:57 pm

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 amPosts: 86

I'm happy that Mr. Jacobson created the AOS and be able to save many of these important machines as he can I wonder is he adding more stalls to his roundhouse he'll need to add more to his collection. I wonder if he's interested in a logging mallet. in the pacific northwest there's one in WA but it's in peaces i think it's the Rayonier 38 I know it's not a mainline steam locomotive but still. I think it'll be a good fit for short line and tourist operations the drawback is it's not suited for Class 1 rails but it still needs better care than it is now. I still want to see 1293 6325 to run again those two and 1551 were the only OHCR steamers I seen to operate in person. that explains why I'm so into getting them back on the road.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 34 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum