I found this interesting article by this Jewish Rabbi. There is lot of research that shows athiests are into pedophilia, and majority of pedophiles are atheists lacking morals.

A Plea to Atheists: Pedophilia Is Next On the Slippery Slope; Let Us Turn Back Before It Is Too Late (http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/08/29/a-plea-to-atheists-pedophilia-is-next-on-the-slippery-slope-let-us-turn-back-before-it-is-too-late/)

It is axiomatic that in the world of the atheist there is neither morality nor immorality, only amorality. This is often misunderstood to mean that atheists have no values. That conclusion would clearly be erroneous. To associate atheism with amorality is not to say that atheists have no values, they certainly do; amorality is a commentary, not on the existence of values, but on the significance of those values. Since in the atheistic worldview we are nothing more than upright walking primates, our value systems have no more significance than those of our jungle dwelling relatives. In the Darwinian view, the human is to the cockroach as the cockroach is to the paramecium. To imagine that we are something “more” is just that: a product of the human imagination.
It would be absurd then for the atheist to suggest that any particular individual or society has the authority to dictate to all human beings what their values should or should not be; it would be even more absurd to suggest that the pronouncements of any individual or society obligates others to behave accordingly. For the atheist, morality is simply a word that is used to describe the type of system that an individual or society subjectively prefers. Each society establishes, maintains, and modifies its values to suit its own needs.
“Morality is the custom of one’s country and the current feeling of one’s peers. Cannibalism is moral in a cannibalistic country.” (Samuel Butler)
Since these values are nothing more than reflections of the prevalent subjective preferences they obviously will shift and metamorphose to accommodate changing needs and attitudes. In my own lifetime I have witnessed radical societal swings in moral behavior and attitudes regarding marriage and sexuality, homosexuality, the killing of unborn children, euthanasia, and the use of illicit drugs.
One can reasonably predict that as the infatuation with skepticism and atheism grows among the influential “intellectual elite” of our society, so too will their readiness to embrace more radical changes in moral values. Religious believers expressing dismay and horror at the ominous moral storm clouds looming on the horizon are met with smug derision, hysterical counter-accusations, or utter indifference. There is nothing that atheistic societies are incapable of rationalizing and accepting – including the sexual molestation of children.
No doubt, this assertion will appear preposterous to some atheists, and will spark outrage. Yet the logical and philosophical consequences of atheists’ belief systems are inescapable. When asked by journalist William Crawley if he thought that pedophilia was “just wrong.” Professor Peter Singer of Princeton University – a world-famous philosopher of “ethics” – responded as follows:
I don’t have intrinsic moral taboos. My view is not that anything is just wrong…You’re trying to put words in my mouth.” (William Crawley Meets Peter Singer (part 3) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAhAlbsAbLM&feature=related))
Singer went on to explain that he is a “consequentialist.” For the benefit of the philosophically challenged let me explain “consequentialism” in a nutshell: If you like the consequences it’s ethical, if you don’t like the consequences it’s unethical. Thus, if you enjoy child pornography and having sex with children it’s ethical, if you dislike child pornography and having sex with children it’s unethical. In an article entitled “Heavy Petting,” Singer likewise gave his stamp of approval to bestiality. As a reward for producing such pearls of wisdom, he has been granted the privilege of teaching our children “ethics” at an Ivy League university. Moreover, he is by no means the only atheistic philosopher industriously engaged in greasing the precarious slope on which Western society totters. Hence, my “plea” to atheists, for the philosophical groundwork for the acceptance of pedophilia has already been put in place by such philosophers.
Joel Marks, Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at the U. of New Haven, who for 10 years authored the “Moral Moments” column in Philosophy Now, made the following, rather shocking about-face in a 2010 article entitled, “An Amoral Manifesto.”
“This philosopher has been laboring under an unexamined assumption, namely that there is such a thing as right and wrong. I now believe there isn’t…The long and short of it is that I became convinced that atheism implies amorality; and since I am an atheist, I must therefore embrace amorality…I experienced my shocking epiphany that religious fundamentalists are correct; without God there is no morality. But they are incorrect, I still believe, about there being a God. Hence, I believe, there is no morality. (An Amoral Manifesto (Part I) | Philosophy Now (http://www.philosophynow.org/issue80/An_Amoral_Manifesto_Part_I))
Marks then quite boldly and candidly addresses the implications of his newfound beliefs:
“Even though words like “sinful” and “evil” come naturally to the tongue as say a description of child molesting. They do not describe any actual properties of anything. There are no literal sins in the world because there is no literal God…nothing is literally right or wrong because there is no Morality…yet we human beings can still discover plenty of completely naturally explainable resources for motivating certain preferences. Thus enough of us are sufficiently averse to the molestation of children and would likely continue to be…
At this point the utter intellectual (and moral) bankruptcy of Marks’ position becomes apparent. After correctly concluding that a world without God is free from the shackles of the illusory concepts of morality and immorality, he pathetically attempts to have his cake and eat it too by suggesting that there is something “good” or “better” about the preference to being averse to child molestation. One does not know whether to laugh or cry at this dismally transparent exercise in grasping at straws. Isn’t that very point the entire difference between “preference” and “morality?” The recognition that there is something inherently and intrinsically abominable in child molestation renders the act immoral, rather than merely not to one’s taste. Morality implies that there are principles of behavior that are part of the very fabric of reality; principles which Dr. Marks understands can only have significance if they come from God. Preference, on the other hand, is subjective and notoriously capricious.As in: I prefer chocolate ice-cream over vanilla. I prefer jazz to hip-hop. I prefer that people have sex with adults instead of children and the family pet.
However, as Dr. Marks acknowledges, others have different preferences, no less valid than his own. Dr. John Money of Johns Hopkins University proclaims: “If I were to see the case of a boy aged ten or twelve who’s intensely erotically attracted toward a man in his twenties or thirties, if the relationship is genuinely totally mutual, and the bonding is genuinely totally mutual…then I would not call it pathological in any way.” (In view of his professional opinion, I wonder how many neighbors are courageous enough to arrange play-dates for their children at the Money residence.)
On August 17, 2011 a symposium sponsored by an association of mental health professionals called B4U-ACT took place in Baltimore, Md. The official brochure declared:
“This day long symposium will facilitate the exchange of ideas among researchers, scholars, mental health practitioners, and minor-attracted persons who have an interest in critical issues surrounding the entry for pedophilia in the Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) of the American Psychiatric Association.”
In plain English, this is a symposium whose goal is to facilitate the removal of Pedophilia from the American Psychiatric Societies official list of Mental Disorders (DSM). B4U-ACT has already coined a bland, innocuous, and inoffensive term to make the idea of child-sex more palatable: “minor-attracted persons.” This phrase sounds almost pleasant, distinctly unlike those nasty and soon-to-be-politically-incorrect words like “pedophile” and “child molester.” (How does pedophobic grab you?) Not surprisingly, the featured speaker is Dr. Fred Berlin of Johns Hopkins University, a colleague of Dr. John Money. Child advocate, Dr. Judith Reisman disclosed that the conference is part of a strategy to condition people into accepting pedophiles: “The first thing they do is to get the public to divest from thinking of what the offender does criminally, to thinking of his emotional state…to empathize and sympathize…You don’t change the nation in one fell swoop, you have to change it by conditioning.”
Although first published nearly two decades ago, a special issue of The Journal of Homosexuality called “Male Intergenerational Intimacy” edited by three prestigious scholars (all PhD’s) gives us a taste of what is to come:
“In contemporary Western society, intimate sexual relations between men and boys are considered as immoral…regardless of the emotional contexts in which they occur [not according to Joel Marks and Peter Singer!]…the current social climate makes it rather difficult to look at these relationships in an objective way…man-boy relationships are not uncommon. As in homosexuality, man-boy sexuality occurs and not seldom in a context in which both partners consent…in these relationships a diversity of feelings are or can be expressed: affection, attachment, desire, domination and submission…men who feel attracted to boys have to legitimize their feelings toward themselves as well as towards society.”
All we are missing now is a scholarly “scientific” study which informs us that we have finally isolated a “man-child attraction” gene! An old German expression comes to mind: “So fangt es immer an”- “It always starts in the same way.” What also comes to mind are the lyrics of an old protest song from the 60’s: “And you tell me over and over again my friend, you don’t believe we’re on the eve of destruction?”
The atheistic notion that life emerged randomly from ancient Earth’s prebiotic slime, coupled with the Darwinian belief that humans are no more than intelligent chimpanzees, leaves us morally bereft. In a society whose schools consider it a noble undertaking to teach a teenage boy how to use a condom, but streng verboten to teach him that God has forbidden us to steal or murder, how can one anticipate anything other than a gaping and ever-expanding moral sinkhole? While there exist real challenges in determining exactly what God requires of us in the moral sphere, let us, at least, agree on the following before it is too late, and move forward from there:

All men are created in the image of God and are therefore inherently and intrinsically precious.
All men have been endowed by God with unalienable rights and among these are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Thou shalt not murder.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Thou shalt not commit adultery, incest, or bestiality.
Thou shalt not have sex with children, and if you do you will be looked upon as a disgusting and contemptible criminal and will be treated as such.
Thou shall teach these laws to your children.

We hold these above truths to be self-evident, not by proxy of some pragmatic social contract that can be amended and revised as often as societal whim and convenience demands, not as the result of the pompous and vapid philosophical musings of so called professors of “ethics,” but because they reflect the eternal, immutable, and absolute moral laws that emanate from Almighty God, the Creator of the universe and all mankind.
A wise man once observed that while belief in God after the Holocaust may be difficult, belief in man after the Holocaust is impossible. The choices before us are clear: we will either seek a transcendent moral law to which we will all submit, or we will seek our own personal and societal indulgence. If we turn to God in our quest to create a moral and just world, we have a fighting chance; if not, we are doomed to spiral into the man-made hell of the human jungle.
Rabbi Moshe Averick is an orthodox rabbi and author of Nonsense of a High Order: The Confused and Illusory World of the Atheist. It is available on Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Nonsense-High-Order-Confused-Illusory/dp/1456445944/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1309740183&sr=8-1) and Kindle. Rabbi Averick can be reached via his website at Here is what they are saying: (http://rabbimaverick.com/)

how did you come across these articles brother prince? and do you seriously not have anything better to do with your life?? why should we read about bestiality? why can't we discuss things that relates to us on day to day life?
google "atheists pedophilia"
why should i do that? what will i gain from it?

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 12:09 AM

google "atheists pedophilia" and it is the first result if you are so keen on finding out,

how did you come across these articles brother prince? and do you seriously not have anything better to do with your life?? why should we read about bestiality? why can't we discuss things that relates to us on day to day life?

why should i do that? what will i gain from it?

Please stop trolling in all threads...claiming ..that you do not care..

Truth is..you care enough to respond...

These posts are very informative..and unknown is doing a great job...informing everyone about the reality of atheism.

this research indicates that there is a growing link between atheism and immorality

Iqra

12-09-2011, 12:34 AM

so Atheism and Christianity and Catholicism lead to pedophilia?

I stopped reading this after a few paragraphs ..there's a lot of BS out there .. and this seems like some of that.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 12:38 AM

so Atheism and Christianity and Catholicism lead to pedophilia?

I stopped reading this after a few paragraphs ..there's a lot of BS out there .. and this seems like some of that.

the point is there are pedophiles everywhere who abuse children, even some Muslims.

However, it is not as extensive within the Muslim world as it is within the non-Muslim/athiest/Christian/Jewish/Hindu world

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 12:39 AM

Please stop trolling in all threads...claiming ..that you do not care..

Truth is..you care enough to respond...

These posts are very informative..and unknown is doing a great job...informing everyone about the reality of atheism.

no he is not. i don't know why any pashtun in his right mind would find this subject appropriate for discussion. just imagine what our members living in afghanistan or pakistan must think of afghans and pashtuns living in abroad. this **** doesn't concern us in general as much as some other topics do so i would really appreciate it if unknownprince stopped flooding this forum with his research on porn and bestiality or rather kept that sort of information to himself. i highly doubt that people come here to read about stuff like that.
as soon as he starts posting, this platform becomes a ****ing zoo.

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 12:44 AM

no he is not. i don't know why any pashtun in his right mind would find this subject appropriate for discussion. just imagine what our members living in afghanistan or pakistan must think of afghans and pashtuns living in abroad. this **** doesn't concern us in general as much as some other topics do so i would really appreciate it if unknownprince stopped flooding this forum with his research on porn and bestiality or rather kept that sort of information to himself.
as soon as he starts posting, this platform becomes a ****ing zoo.

Not really. You are wrong.

He is not posting porn or anything. He is posting an article for educational purposes. He has not broken any forum rules.

Turning a blind eye to an issue will not solve it.

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 12:46 AM

unknown, you might find this interesting.

Sex-abuse in the Catholic Church in Australia (http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/bccrime.html)

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 12:49 AM

it's one thing to defend your religion and stand up for it and another to degrade someone else's religious views or the lack of it.. if we expect non muslims to understand our situation and not tolerate a self proclaimed catholic priest burning our holy book then we should also stand against people like unknown when he as a muslim chooses to use similar retarded tactics to degrade other people's religion or their view of it.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 12:54 AM

The article is a factual one for educational purposes. Read it or do not read it.

There is no degradation of atheists or Christians/Jews/Hindus. These are mere facts, and there are also statistics in regards to child abuse and other crimes and their link to other faiths or atheism.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 12:54 AM

Not really. You are wrong.

He is not posting porn or anything. He is posting an article for educational purposes. He has not broken any forum rules.

Turning a blind eye to an issue will not solve it.
you know jamaludeen it's a game for people like you, unknown and certain non muslims out there. you like to degrade each other by pulling out faults in human beings and then blaming it on their religions when it has nothing to do with their understanding of their religion and everything with their lack of it.
maybe instead of playing this game of exposing each other, you could focus on strengthening your own faith by practicing it during the time you waste over pointing fingers at each other. i don't see any difference in people of your type. all i know it that you bullshyt in the name of religion and as much of an obvious of a joke as your type has become, you still fail to realize it.

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 12:59 AM

it's one thing to defend your religion and stand up for it and another to degrade someone else's religious views or the lack of it.. if we expect non muslims to understand our situation and not tolerate a self proclaimed catholic priest burning our holy book then we should also stand against people like unknown when he as a muslim chooses to use similar retarded tactics to degrade other people's religion or their view of it.

Following your logic.

We should as well stop going to university as they at times teach us things that are blasphemous..and we should take into to consideration what afghans in Pakistan and Afghanistan will think of us, when they find out what we learn in Universities in here.

It's called Adult Education, and if you do not have the heart then just ignore it. Reality is hard bro. I remember, we had a sociology student...and she was offended by the way our lecture said the name ..Emanuel Kant..The kant part. Funny thing was..she was going to become a social worker..dealing mostly with juveniles, crooks, and what not. No one else found his pronunciation offensive...

So should we stop learning about Emanuel Kant just because she found it offensive..or that someone might find it offensive...

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 01:01 AM

you know jamaludeen it's a game for people like you, unknown and certain non muslims out there. you like to degrade each other by pulling out faults in human beings and then blaming it on their religions when it has nothing to do with their understanding of their religion and everything with their lack of it.
maybe instead of playing this game of exposing each other, you could focus on strengthening your own faith by practicing it during the time you waste over pointing fingers at each other. i don't see any difference in people of your type. all i know it that you bullshyt in the name of religion and as much of an obvious of a joke as your type has become, you still fail to realize it.

You have spent half of your life on a forum...the world outside is way different.. Just becuase you are safe and sound in your home doesn't mean these things don't exist. I'd rather be informed than be ignorant of the issue.

Your information on matters is as limited as ours..but atleast me, unknown and others are trying to seek further knowledge...

that is what life is..

you can choose to ignore things... it will just make your life miserable.

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-09-2011, 01:08 AM

how come pedophillia is prevalent amongst pashtuns. pashtuns are not an athiest community

can one of you two esteemed maulanas please explain this pedophilic phenomena amongst pashtuns?

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 01:09 AM

another interesting and overlooked fact.

according to FBI 80% of pedophiles are nonhispanic white men - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6WrPyIKg_U)

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 01:10 AM

how come pedophillia is prevalent amongst pashtuns. pashtuns are not an athiest community

can one of you two esteemed maulanas please explain this pedophilic phenomena amongst pashtuns?

that is actually propaganda.

Child abuse is mostly in Northern Afghanistan.. Bacha Bazi originates from the North. This is not to say that Pashtuns are not involved in it, but at the present stance, such people are usually killed by the religious types. <thats a fact.

It is due to child abuse and other crimes, that the Taliban are back.

Many of the Afghan National Army members are engaged in crimes such as child abuse

BUT, the discussion here is about atheists and pedophilia.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 01:22 AM

Following your logic.

We should as well stop going to university as they at times teach us things that are blasphemous..and we should take into to consideration what afghans in Pakistan and Afghanistan will think of us, when they find out what we learn in Universities in here.

It's called Adult Education, and if you do not have the heart then just ignore it. Reality is hard bro. I remember, we had a sociology student...and she was offended by the way our lecture said the name ..Emanuel Kant..The kant part. Funny thing was..she was going to become a social worker..dealing mostly with juveniles, crooks, and what not. No one else found his pronunciation offensive...

So should we stop learning about Emanuel Kant just because she found it offensive..or that someone might find it offensive...

i wouldn't know what they teach in universities because i chose not to go to one for reasons very similar to what you mentioned in your first sentence. not being taught blasphemous things but having to compromise with learning stuff that i as an individual didn't necessarily believed in..and you know what brother jamaludin, i learned that education is to be taken with the mind not the heart. if you are blind and someone you don't trust, tells you that you are about to walk on a puddle of mud in front of you, you don't tell yourself that they are lying to you. (a) you wonder what will happen if there is an actual puddle in front of you and (b) you try to figure out what their motive behind telling you that lie might be.
your heart can very easily be manipulated but your mind can't.

and if you really believe in tolerating a concept (like an "adult") that is being taught to you in which you don't necessarily believe in then why do you have a problem with students being taught about evolution in a university that is geographically built on grounds of a non islamic state?

this subject is as appropriate and useful to us afghans and pashtuns as the subject of striping would be for a mullah to teach little children in a madrasa instead of verses of quraan.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 01:30 AM

You have spent half of your life on a forum...the world outside is way different.. Just becuase you are safe and sound in your home doesn't mean these things don't exist. I'd rather be informed than be ignorant of the issue.

Your information on matters is as limited as ours..but atleast me, unknown and others are trying to seek further knowledge...

that is what life is..

you can choose to ignore things... it will just make your life miserable.

knowledge on what? pornography? i want to learn about pashtuns and as far as i know, this subject does not concern pashtuns.

wiping off propaganda with some more propaganda....you must think you are the noblest thing happening to islam and afghanistan out there...yeah right, you are just another piece of trash in the piles of pieces of trash out there, following on the footpaths of your forefathers, trashing and kicking islam and that country a few notches lower and closer to the gutter...

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 01:43 AM

i wouldn't know what they teach in universities because i chose not to go to one for reasons very similar to what you mentioned in your first sentence. not being taught blasphemous things but having to compromise with learning stuff that i as an individual didn't necessarily believed in..and you know what brother jamaludin, i learned that education is to be taken with the mind not the heart. if you are blind and someone you don't trust, tells you that you are about to walk on a puddle of mud in front of you, you don't tell yourself that they are lying to you. (a) you wonder what will happen if there is an actual puddle in front of you and (b) you try to figure out what their motive behind telling you that lie might be.
your heart can very easily be manipulated but your mind can't.

and if you really believe in tolerating a concept (like an "adult") that is being taught to you in which you don't necessarily believe in then why do you have a problem with students being taught about evolution in a university that is geographically built on grounds of a non islamic state?

this subject is as appropriate and useful to us afghans and pashtuns as the subject of striping would be for a mullah to teach little children in a madrasa instead of verses of quraan.

Do you know the difference between Adult Education and Education in Schools? In schools, you have no choice but to attend all classes, study whatever they give you. attend PT classes and what.....whereas adult education is ..something that is up to the student...If the student finds something offensive, and walks off.. then no one will judge him.. but that doesn't mean.. a topic is going to be ignored all together just because one student finds it offensive.

Those students who walked off the lecture room because they didn't wish to learn evolution.. did it by their own choice.. maybe they didn't find it evolution ..or maybe they knew the whole theory already.. and that is what adult education is... you are not forced to learn anything...

You are comparing two different issues... Mullahs have nothing to do with this discussion...Pashtuns have nothing to do with this discussion..If you wish to discuss Mullahs and Pashtuns.. Please do create a thread..and everyone will discuss it accordingly. I also request Amir al Ghaznavi.. to stop trolling every thread, perhaps Tor Khan could summon him.

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 01:46 AM

knowledge on what? pornography? i want to learn about pashtuns and as far as i know, this subject does not concern pashtuns.

wiping off propaganda with some more propaganda....you must think you are the noblest thing happening to islam and afghanistan out there...yeah right, you are just another piece of trash in the piles of pieces of trash out there, following on the footpaths of your forefathers, trashing and kicking islam and that country a few notches lower and closer to the gutter...

Your rant has nothing to do with this topic. I'm not a piece of trash, because I'm a human being..and Allah swt made me special..just like he made you special..with your own characteristics...personality...and other features...

It is because of my forefathers, that you can even call yourself Afghan. Thanks to them.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 02:10 AM

adult knowledge and education in school? perhaps you have knowledge and wisdom confused for each other. let me try something else for your.

once upon a time there used to be a village called pashtun forums. in pashtun forums they had no electricity so no one had ever seen or heard of a refrigerator. (porn/bestiality)... then one day a man( khomeni looking maseed) came to pashtun forums and started talking about how once a long time ago he had this really yummy thing called an ice cappuccino (atheism). all the while this was happening there was this horrible flood (ignorance, poverty and crap like that..) that had been going on for years and years due to a dam(the war) that had erupted a long time ago and no matter how much the villagers tried to stop it, it would simply not stop. then one day one of the villagers (unknownprince) decided to go off and find manuals on how a refrigerator is built. he brought the manuals and distributed them amongst all the villagers and before you knew it, no one was even bothering to stop that flood anymore..because some idiot (that would be you by the way) had confused wisdom with knowledge and according to him, no matter how tough life gets, education is education..and if there is an refrigerator out there that actually exists, then the villagers have the right to know all about it...

i am going to go and read my book now.

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 02:15 AM

adult knowledge and education in school? perhaps you have knowledge and wisdom confused for each other. let me try something else for your.

once upon a time there used to be a village called pashtun forums. in pashtun forums they had no electricity so no one had ever seen or heard of a refrigerator. (porn/bestiality)... then one day a man( khomeni looking maseed) came to pashtun forums and started talking about how once a long time ago he had this really yummy thing called an ice cappuccino (atheism). all the while this was happening there was this horrible flood (ignorance, poverty and crap like that..) that had been going on for years and years due to a dam(the war) that had erupted a long time ago and no matter how much the villagers tried to stop it, it would simply not stop. then one day one of the villagers (unknownprince) decided to go off and find manuals on how a refrigerator is built. he brought the manuals and distributed them amongst all the villagers and before you knew it, no one was even bothering to stop that flood anymore..because some idiot (that would be you by the way) had confused wisdom with knowledge and according to him, no matter how tough life gets, education is education..and if there is an refrigerator out there that actually exists, then the villagers have the right to know all about it...

i am going to go and read my book now.

This doesn't make sense... lay of the cuppachinos..for a while..and take some fish oil tablets..

Btw, I said Adult Education...and no where have i spoken about wisdom.. you are trying to save a face just like others who have been debating me.

You just like argue for the sake of arguing..and winning a debate.. not for the purpose of learning..and acquiring knowledge....

and no i haven't mistaken knowledge with wisdom... :running: nice try... go read your book "How to debate Jamaludeen"

Soldat_Amir

12-09-2011, 03:03 AM

You know what Admin Khana you have warned me on many occasions not to hurt peoples feelings on this section of the forum however it would be very nice of you to also review some of these threads that people post that not only misinforms others but is down right ludacris.

Now, the thread starter is claiming if you dont believe in god you will instantly be led to becoming a pedo.

Now, I could easily refute this by highlighting some Hadiths of Unknown own religion however I will give it a miss because I feel this thread is being used against me and other asthiests to bring up the topic of Ayesha marriage for which I do not want to indulge in because I know people will use it against me.

I will give it a pass I hope Tor Khan can take notice of this sudden trolling by Jamal and Unknown to get members banned by luring them into debates that stir emotional feelings of members.

Deera Manana

tor_khan

12-09-2011, 03:18 AM

no he is not. i don't know why any pashtun in his right mind would find this subject appropriate for discussion. just imagine what our members living in afghanistan or pakistan must think of afghans and pashtuns living in abroad. this **** doesn't concern us in general as much as some other topics do so i would really appreciate it if unknownprince stopped flooding this forum with his research on porn and bestiality or rather kept that sort of information to himself. i highly doubt that people come here to read about stuff like that.
as soon as he starts posting, this platform becomes a ****ing zoo.

Thank you.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 03:24 AM

Thank you.

this thread is an article which talks about the link between atheism (a lack of religion) and pedophilia. Atheists discuss what they want here. However, the article here is actually a well researched article that provides for a good read.

It is an article. If people have a problem with it, they should constructively debate it. Extensive research is shown here.

By the way could you please merge this http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/atheists-pushing-pedophile-porn-24430/

with this thread.

You can also add the other two threads I posted in this section to this one. There is a lot of research that links atheism to immorality. This is a fact.

Thanks

Soldat_Amir

12-09-2011, 05:31 AM

Stoke-on-Trent Muslim sexual abuse cleric jailed

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/51737000/jpg/_51737787_imam.jpg Mohammed Hanif Khan was "treated like a god" by boys in his care
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-12780538#story_continues_1) Related Stories

Imam guilty of sex abuse of boys (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-12335032)
Accused imam 'helped unruly boys' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-12271162)
Imam 'assaulted boy in classroom' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-12187855)
A Muslim cleric who sexually assaulted two boys at a mosque in Stoke-on-Trent has been sentenced to 16 years in jail.
Mohammed Hanif Khan, 42, had denied charges of rape, attempted rape and sexual activity with a child.
A jury at Nottingham Crown Court found Khan, of Owler Lane, Sheffield, guilty of two counts of rape and one of sexual activity with a child.
The offences took place at the mosque on Capper Street between July and October 2009.
Khan, who was sentenced at Nottingham Crown Court, was told he will serve a minimum term of eight years.
'Like the Queen'
He had been the UK's first full-time Islamic minister at Dovegate Prison, near Uttoxeter.
During sentencing judge Mrs Justice Dobbs revealed he had resigned from this post over allegations he sexually harassed three female members of staff.
That showed Khan was a serious risk to the public, she said.
Justice Dobbs told Khan: "You were the imam and not only were you the boys' teacher you were the boys' guide.
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-12780538#story_continues_2) “Start Quote
You were taken into the hearts of the community and treated like a god”
End Quote Mrs Justice Dobbs
"You were taken into the hearts of the community and treated like a god.
"One of the boys described you as being so big you were like the Queen.
"Your actions have had a significant effect on the community. The boys have been reviled by the community for bringing shame on the community."
'Suicidal thoughts'
Khan will be on the sex offenders' register for life and subject to a sex offenders' protection order.
During the trial prosecutor Tariq Bin Shakoor told the court one of the boys was often singled out by Khan after evening prayers.
The other boy was assaulted when he was an overnight guest at Khan's house, the jury heard.
Following the verdict on 1 February the family of one of Khan's victims said the boy isolated himself from friends and family and even wanted to end his life.

also we do not want to offend people who offend our whole nation on daily basis.
after all the agenda is to deislamise the pashtuns cuz that will lead to progression.

Insaaf_انصاف

12-09-2011, 08:09 AM

" Please be reminded that we have had some instances of Members operating under multiple accounts/user-names. This is a breach of forum rules and Forum Staff reserve the right to delete/ban any instances of this without warning.

plus a dozen other deleted, merged/renamed accounts are traced to one user.

If there are any questions around multiple accounts, please contact Forum Staff. "

Tor khan.

Ok , so it proves that unknownprince and graveyardsofempires are BIG TROLLS, so DONT CARE what they said.

Insaaf_انصاف

12-09-2011, 08:13 AM

People, Go Check the thread " Ban notifications " thread
And you WILL SEE , how graveyard and unknownprince are TROLLLS

09-17-2011 :

By admin khan :

"
Member:
Checkmate, Unknownprince (and his many other accounts) have been banned.

Reason:
Deteriorating forum quality with garbage posts this morning, and attacking members with racial slurs. Long story short, attacking a staff member isn't ever accepted. He was warned, but clearly he did not respect our warning. If anyone have any questions, feel free to privately contact us. "

SO NOW
Dont care what they are saying, they are TROLLS LOL

Alchemist

12-09-2011, 08:18 AM

Good find chap...

I don't know why daJamzoo is getting her <EDITED> in a knot.
If this was about old men in afghanistan marrying little girls she would be writing the opposite. Instead her argument is - don't offend people who offend Allah. This is all a part of her assimiliation programming in a western world. Here homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality. And homosexuals have feelings too!

This article is a blow to the arguments of atheists on this forum who have been saying all the while that atheists do not lack morals.
Now the priests of atheists, scientists and doctors, are writing "manifestos" that declare their ammorality.
And what does Soldout khamir threaten us with? The marriage of Aisha (radiallahanha)? You don't have any moral grounds to say anything about that marriage when your own atheism deems the marriage "consequentially" appropriate! In another 10 years pedophilia will be accepted in this society just like homosexuality is. NAMBLA (North American man boy love association) has been around for decades!

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-09-2011, 08:27 AM

Once again will the maulanas of this forum speak to the issue of pedophilia amongst the pashtun community, which as has been reiterated many times, is not an athiest community?

Perhaps unknownprince you assume the Amir is a stupid man who will accept your arguments that bachaa bazi is a northern Afghan phenomena, we all know that is simply not true

Can you also sPeak to how repressed sexuality in our part of the world leads to homosexual behaviour (prison syndrome)?

By no means am i indicating that athiest or secular societies are completely moral, i am asking for the same ridicolous assumptions and generalizations to be equally applied

Also alchemist, the difference between pedophilia and homosexuals is very clear, as clear as night and day. The latter is based on consent by two adults whereas the former is predatory as the child is clearly incapable of understanding the consequences of his/her decision

Nah homie we dont need to threaten people for their views, or launch character assaults because we re threatened by the beliefs of others

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 08:45 AM

Once again will the maulanas of this forum speak to the issue of pedophilia amongst the pashtun community, which as has been reiterated many times, is not an athiest community?

Perhaps unknownprince you assume the Amir is a stupid man who will accept your arguments that bachaa bazi is a northern Afghan phenomena, we all know that is simply not true

Can you also sPeak to how repressed sexuality in our part of the world leads to homosexual behaviour (prison syndrome)?

By no means am i indicating that athiest or secular societies are completely moral, i am asking for the same ridicolous assumptions and generalizations to be equally applied

Also alchemist, the difference between pedophilia and homosexuals is very clear, as clear as night and day. The latter is based on consent by two adults whereas the former is predatory as the child is clearly incapable of understanding the consequences of his/her decision

Homosexual apologists admit that some homosexuals sexually molest children, but they deny that homosexuals are more likely to commit such offenses. After all, they argue, the majority of child molestation cases are heterosexual in nature. While this is correct in terms of absolute numbers, this argument ignores the fact that homosexuals comprise only a very small percentage of the population.

The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls. To demonstrate this it is necessary to connect several statistics related to the problem of child sex abuse: 1) men are almost always the perpetrator; 2) up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys; 3) less than three percent of the population are homosexuals. Thus, a tiny percentage of the population (homosexual men), commit one-third or more of the cases of child sexual molestation.
Men Account for Almost All Sexual Abuse of Children Cases

· An essay on adult sex offenders in the book Sexual Offending Against Children reported:"It is widely believed that the vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by males and that female sex offenders only account for a tiny proportion of offences. Indeed, with 3,000 adult male sex offenders in prison in England and Wales at any one time, the corresponding figure for female sex offenders is 12!"[1]

· Kee MacFarlane, et al., writing in Sexual Abuse of Young Children: Evaluation and Treatment report:"The large majority of sexual perpetrators appear to be males (Herman and Hirschman, 1981; Lindholm and Willey, 1983)."[2]

· A report by the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children states: "In both clinical and non-clinical samples, the vast majority of offenders are male."[3]

· A study in the Journal of Sex Research states that "pedophilia does not exist, or is extremely rare, in women."[4]

A Significant Percentage of Child Sexual Abuse Victims are Boys

· According to the Journal of Child Psychiatry: "It was commonly believed fifteen years ago that girls were abused in excess of boys in a ratio of about 9 to 1, but contemporary studies now indicate that the ratio of girls to boys abused has narrowed remarkably. . . . The majority of community studies suggest a . . . ratio . . . in the order of 2 to 4 girls to 1 boy."[5] Another study found that "some authors now believe that boys may be sexually abused as commonly as girls (Groth, 1978; O'Brien, 1980)."[6]

· A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males."[7]
Sexual Abuse of Boys is Underreported

The actual percentage of child sexual abuse victims who are boys very likely exceeds the above estimates. Many researchers echo the view of the Journal of Child Psychiatry study, which refers to the "under-reporting of the incidence and prevalence of sexual abuse in boys."[8]

· Dr. Robert Johnson, in Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, reports: "The vast majority of cases of male sexual molestation is not reported. As a result, these young men keep both the incidents and their feelings to themselves."[9]

· The Department of Justice report on child sexual exploitation explains why the percentage of boy victims is underestimated: "Adolescent boy victims are highly likely to deny certain types of sexual activity. . . . They are embarrassed and ashamed of their behavior and rightfully believe that society will not understand their victimization. . . . No matter what the investigator does, most adolescent boys will deny they were victims."[10]

· The Journal of Child Psychiatry adds: "Boys are usually encultured into an ethos where self-reliance, independence and sexual prowess are valued, while showing hurt or homosexuality are denigrated. . . . This may lead to powerful repression or deletion of the experience, with failure to report."[11]
Homosexuals Comprise Less than 3 Percent of the Population

· Relying upon three large data sets: the General Social Survey, the National Health and Social Life Survey, and the U.S. census, a recent study in Demography estimates the number of exclusive male homosexuals in the general population at 2.5 percent, and the number of exclusive lesbians at 1.4 percent.[12]

· A study of the sexual behavior of men in the United States based on the National Survey of Men (a nationally representative sample comprised of 3,321 men aged twenty to thirty-nine, published in Family Planning Perspectives), found that "2 percent of sexually active men aged twenty to thirty-nine . . . had had any same-gender sexual activity during the last ten years. Approximately 1 percent of the men (1.3 percent among whites and 0.2 percent among blacks) reported having had exclusively homosexual activity.[13]

· J. Gordon Muir, writing in The Wall Street Journal, discusses a number of studies that have found that homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.[14]

· In a survey of studies on homosexuals in different populations, the Archives of Sexual Behavior reported a random sample of Hawaii State residents interviewed by telephone. The study found "just about 3 percent of males and 1.2 percent of females as having engaged in same-sex or bisexual activity."[15] However, this relatively higher number is attributed to the fact that the study was not limited to exclusive homosexuals, but included all those who at some time in their lives engaged in same-sex activities.[16]
Homosexual Pedophiles are Vastly Overrepresented in Child Sex Abuse Cases

Homosexual pedophiles sexually molest children at a far greater rate compared to the percentage of homosexuals in the general population. A study in the Journal of Sex Research found, as we have noted above, that "approximately one-third of [child sex offenders] had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls." The authors then make a prescient observation: "Interestingly, this ratio differs substantially from the ratio of gynephiles (men who erotically prefer physically mature females) to androphiles (men who erotically prefer physically mature males), which is at least 20 to 1."[17]

Insaaf_انصاف

12-09-2011, 08:46 AM

Once again ,
People, please report these threads because :

People, Go Check the thread " Ban notifications " thread
And you WILL SEE , how graveyard and unknownprince are TROLLLS

09-17-2011 :

By admin khan :

"
Member:
Checkmate, Unknownprince (and his many other accounts) have been banned.

Reason:
Deteriorating forum quality with garbage posts this morning, and attacking members with racial slurs. Long story short, attacking a staff member isn't ever accepted. He was warned, but clearly he did not respect our warning. If anyone have any questions, feel free to privately contact us. "

Dont care what they are saying, they are TROLLS LOL

Alchemist

12-09-2011, 08:47 AM

Once again will the maulanas of this forum speak to the issue of pedophilia amongst the pashtun community, which as has been reiterated many times, is not an athiest community?

Perhaps unknownprince you assume the Amir is a stupid man who will accept your arguments that bachaa bazi is a northern Afghan phenomena, we all know that is simply not true

The bacha baz are also atheists.

Surely the Amir is not implying that the bacha baz are God conscious people that pray fives a day, give charity and obey Allah?

Can you also sPeak to how repressed sexuality in our part of the world leads to homosexual behaviour (prison syndrome)?

is there gay parade in mecca? Is there church street in Afghanistan?

By no means am i indicating that athiest or secular societies are completely moral, i am asking for the same ridicolous assumptions and generalizations to be equally applied

Also alchemist, the difference between pedophilia and homosexuals is very clear, as clear as night and day. The latter is based on consent by two adults whereas the former is predatory as the child is clearly incapable of understanding the consequences of his/her decision

What consequences?

No srsly...what consequences?

According to the atheist professor consequences are good if you think they are good, and bad if you feel that they are bad. If the child thinks they are good than they are good. How are the consequences different from a child to an adult?

Insaaf_انصاف

12-09-2011, 08:56 AM

Stop trolling, unknownprince , we all know that you are graveyard, jamaludeen, alchemist etc...

"Checkmate, Unknownprince (and his many other accounts) have been banned. "

By Admin khan , in ban notifications, 09-17-11

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 08:57 AM

While I disagree with the assertion that atheism leads to pedophilia, I find it very interesting that a follower of Mohammad would actually have a problem with that.... It seems that pedophilia is something that your religion should take fairly lightly, given it's history in your religion.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 08:58 AM

According to the atheist professor consequences are good if you think they are good, and bad if you feel that they are bad. If the child thinks they are good than they are good. How are the consequences different from a child to an adult?

Once again your ignorance shows.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 09:06 AM

Alchemist this thread reminds me of the one you wasted everyone's time over about Kate Middleton's friend and her party.
You know very well as everyone else in here that 60 or 50 year old men marrying 13 years old girls in afghanistan is an actual issue that does exist in our society an deserves to be addressed as it affects out people while atheist who is in to this sort of thing is an idea that only roams in the wild imagination of people like you and unknownprince.
I have said this before and I will say it again.. I don't have a problem with anyone pulling faults in any religion culture or system as long as its done in a respectful manner with good intentions and for the right reasons. You playing this war filled with propaganda against the atheist by pulling out crap like this while they use the marriage of the prophet with Ayesha pbuh is insulting to people of actual belief in both sides. You are both munafiqs because you are misusing what you believe in knowing very well that it's not the best argument you could placing out there.
So stop making yourselves seem like a joke by kidding around like this.
Anyways, this thread is about to get violated on many levels and I would like for myself not to be a witness when that happens. Enjoy each others company.
And jamaludeen, don't flatter yourself. You were exchanging a few sentences with an individual who has not had the pleasure of any sleep in the last three days.

Soldat_Amir

12-09-2011, 09:12 AM

Bacha Bazi is practiced in the Pashtun region and its been well documented too. Obviously those with weak minds will call it a Western Christian or a Zionist plott to give the Maulana types a bad name over their sacred followers and peoples but its a well established fact that Bacha Bazi is practiced by Muslims in Afghanistan and those who state that asthiests are ones who practice such a flithy thing is just as criminal.

Amir

The fact that Bacha Bazi occurs is due to the gender segregation and the degraded view of womanfolk. Women in Afghanistan are considered Unclean and a cause of mans sin, they are seen as objects of lust that aim to divert people away from a good cause, hence this is the real reason why boys get raped in Afghanistan because there is no social and gender equality.

Boys are taken by their own will and forced to dance.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 09:41 AM

You know what Admin Khana you have warned me on many occasions not to hurt peoples feelings on this section of the forum however it would be very nice of you to also review some of these threads that people post that not only misinforms others but is down right ludacris.

Now, the thread starter is claiming if you dont believe in god you will instantly be led to becoming a pedo.

Now, I could easily refute this by highlighting some Hadiths of Unknown own religion however I will give it a miss because I feel this thread is being used against me and other asthiests to bring up the topic of Ayesha marriage for which I do not want to indulge in because I know people will use it against me.

I will give it a pass I hope Tor Khan can take notice of this sudden trolling by Jamal and Unknown to get members banned by luring them into debates that stir emotional feelings of members.

Deera Manana

Tor Khan

I have told you to control the behavior of Soldat Amir

There is a direct attack on Ayesha here and a indirect one on the Prophet

I expect action to be taken immediately

No attacks like this can be tolerated

Also, derailing of this thread is not appreciated

Rules must be enforced equally

Soldat_Amir

12-09-2011, 09:43 AM

Lets have a reality check please do look at the following videos, something most here never like to talk about or purposely avoid:-

dbkEahO161U

xbtT8oHuap4

yEYuajmVgNM

4GRHD7nmWz0

KIVVIgspTf8

Now, lets see Taliban justice system or Taliban style on women

E3Za1GcHwKI

uA3N4xLHLEs

CJw7EQ9VYp4

cn3mTAh7_F4

yDuJugOh5ZI

2mFdgRgIkzs

OqN2WqAie18

h-ZGXzr6psB4

Now, can anybody show me if anyone of those people are atheists?

Deera Manana

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 09:44 AM

Bacha Bazi in Afghanistan or attacks on Ayesha and our Prophet PBUH has nothing to do with this topic. Instead of constructive criticism of the article and members argument, soldat amir and Mr NWA are derailing the thread with unnecessary attacks.

If they want to discuss bacha baazi, or child marraige etc., please do create another thread and we will discuss it there. There is no point in turning every thread into a war zone, just like soldat amir, dazahroojaam and mr nwa are doing.

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 09:45 AM

While I disagree with the assertion that atheism leads to pedophilia, I find it very interesting that a follower of Mohammad would actually have a problem with that.... It seems that pedophilia is something that your religion should take fairly lightly, given it's history in your religion.

Stop talking in riddles, be man and be more precise. what are you trying to say.

Soldat_Amir

12-09-2011, 09:45 AM

Under the Taliban, a couple who happen to love each other can be publically stoned to death infront of the community shows to us the deluded and evil intentions people have for our nation and people as a whole.

I hope more and more Pashtuns wake up and realise the seriously bad state our people are in.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 09:46 AM

Tor Khan

I have told you to control the behavior of Soldat Amir

There is a direct attack on Ayesha here and a indirect one on the Prophet

I expect action to be taken immediately

No attacks like this can be tolerated

Also, derailing of this thread is not appreciated

Rules must be enforced equally

I'm sorry, I don't understand how a discussion of Mohammad's marriage to a young girl is inappropriate in the thread you created discussing pedophilia.

Soldat_Amir has been very delicate on that topic, and has been *far* less offensive than unknownprince's own comments in multiple threads on this very topic.

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 09:47 AM

Under the Taliban, a couple who happen to love each other can be publically stoned to death infront of the community shows to us the deluded and evil intentions people have for our nation and people as a whole.

I hope more and more Pashtuns wake up and realise the seriously bad state our people are in.

dude, non of this has anything to do with the topic... what part of that don't you understand... In the internet, what you are doing is considered trolling.

Stop talking in riddles, be man and be more precise. what are you trying to say.

I am sorry, I did not mean to talk in riddles -- I was trying to be polite. Islam is a religion known nation wide for many things, both good, and bad. One of the bad things that pops up in Islam is a tradition of older men marrying very young girls -- and this tradition dates back to the foundation of your religion, when mohammad married a young girl. Others have already posted many links and videos explaining exactly what I am talking about. To claim pedophilia is an atheist only problem is to ignore the long history of these things in Islam and Christianity, as well as the many other religions that allow, or embrace it.

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 09:50 AM

The Atheists have no logical arguement against the points raised here, the only response they have is "ooo well look at you muslims blah blah blah".

Truth is if your an atheist you shouldnt find a 30 year old man having sex with a 12 year old girl wrong, afterall your religion is science no? scientifically if a 12 year old has reached puberty shes ready for 'mating', you find it wrong because deep down your soul tells you its wrong...hold on the soul doesnt exist does it??? confused people.

Soldat_Amir

12-09-2011, 09:51 AM

Tor Khan

I have told you to control the behavior of Soldat Amir

There is a direct attack on Ayesha here and a indirect one on the Prophet

I expect action to be taken immediately

No attacks like this can be tolerated

Also, derailing of this thread is not appreciated

Rules must be enforced equally

You just made my point very clear of the purpose of this thread. You think I am so naive and stupid that I cant sense your motives.

Yes your correct, I will avoid this topic after this message.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 09:51 AM

dude, non of this has anything to do with the topic... what part of that don't you understand... In the internet, what you are doing is considered trolling.

You know that unknownprince is a troll, and it's not the first Time that he is trolling,
We can be reffered to the thread of " Ban notifications "

==>
" Checkmate, Unknownprince (and his many other accounts) have been banned. "
Admin khan

Unknownprince have to be definatelly banned for Trolling

Same for graveyardsofempires , it's not the first Time ( Ban notification thread )

We hope that you gonna ban them because they recur

Dera Manana Tor_Khan Wrora

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 09:54 AM

The Atheists have no logical arguement against the points raised here, the only response they have is "ooo well look at you muslims blah blah blah".

Truth is if your an atheist you shouldnt find a 30 year old man having sex with a 12 year old girl wrong,

False. Atheists are by definition without a *god*, not without *morals*. The two are entirely separate issues.

afterall your religion is science no?

No, it is not. Atheists have no religion, by definition, and even using only science, pedophilia is immoral.

scientifically if a 12 year old has reached puberty shes ready for 'mating',

Only physically, not mentally.

you find it wrong because deep down your soul tells you its wrong

Not so deep down. It's pretty much right on the surface, with all my other morals.

...hold on the soul doesnt exist does it??? confused people.

Huh? What does a soul have to do with morals?

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 09:54 AM

The bacha baz are also atheists.

Surely the Amir is not implying that the bacha baz are God conscious people that pray fives a day, give charity and obey Allah?

is there gay parade in mecca? Is there church street in Afghanistan?

What consequences?

No srsly...what consequences?

According to the atheist professor consequences are good if you think they are good, and bad if you feel that they are bad. If the child thinks they are good than they are good. How are the consequences different from a child to an adult?

Great points

If all of you including the Amir read the article presented, you will see the points made are on logical grounds

The author further links athiesm to a immoral life

He basically says that for an athirst, there is no clear distinction between right and wrong.

He alludes to the fact that pedophilia and homosexuality are treated in such a way that is sympathetic to it.

The argument is logical

Obviously, there exist pedophiles even among those claiming faith, but it is a fact that those pushing pedophilia to the norm are atheists

There is a lot of current research on this

tor_khan

12-09-2011, 09:57 AM

I have had a number of complaints about these threads and the purpose that they serve. There is a sound argument put by some of the complainants that the number of threads on a similar topic amounts to a Spam Attack and as a result, I am merging them into one place.

As the thread starter pointed out a couple of posts in keywords in Google Search will bring up a list of hits for those with an interest in the topic. My own opinion on this, is that the issue of child sexual abuse requires much more sensitive treatment than has been afforded by some here. There appears to have been a deliberate attempt to flame than open up the issue for civil discussion. The result is that the serious discussion is largely absent in the threads so far.

The other issue, related to key word searches and the linkbacks that this generates is the kind of attention that may be drawn to topics headed 'pedophilia', 'porn' etc. Only a couple of days ago, I put a general Announcement about taking care with titles.

Furthermore, it is wrong for any Member to masquerade as another Member and to attribute posts or edits to that person. I share this reminder here because it has happened in this space though note that this is a clear violation of House Rules and I will not hesitate to remove posting privileges should a repeat of this occur.

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 09:59 AM

I am sorry, I did not mean to talk in riddles -- I was trying to be polite. Islam is a religion known nation wide for many things, both good, and bad. One of the bad things that pops up in Islam is a tradition of older men marrying very young girls -- and this tradition dates back to the foundation of your religion, when mohammad married a young girl. Others have already posted many links and videos explaining exactly what I am talking about. To claim pedophilia is an atheist only problem is to ignore the long history of these things in Islam and Christianity, as well as the many other religions that allow, or embrace it.

Ozzy iv read your posts, thought you were smarter that than to think the tradition of older men marrying young girls started with muhammed pbuh, truth is you go back 1400 years anyware in the world and it was the same, which means your great great great great grandfather most likely have married a very young girl which people nowdays would regard as being peadophillic. the tradition of marrying young girls started to dissapear slowly in the advent of Islam, previous to Muhammed PBUH women were nomore than pets. Islam doesnt embrace peodophilla. just look into england just a 100 years ago it was legal to marry a girl of 12 years old. how can someone have such a crude realization of history.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 09:59 AM

Great points

If all of you including the Amir read the article presented, you will see the points made are on logical grounds

The author further links athiesm to a immoral life

He basically says that for an athirst, there is no clear distinction between right and wrong.

Unfortunately many, many studies have proven that morals and religion are not linked. This man is in the minority with these claims.

He alludes to the fact that pedophilia and homosexuality are treated in such a way that is sympathetic to it.

I have never seen a non-religious person treat pedophilia in a 'sympathetic' way -- only the religious do that. As for homosexuality, that is a completely unrelated topic from pedophilia. Pedophilia is about age, homosexuality is about gender.

The argument is logical

No it is not.

Obviously, there exist pedophiles even among those claiming faith, but it is a fact that those pushing pedophilia to the norm are atheists

Citation needed, especially with all the contrary evidence already presented in this thread.

[/quote]

There is a lot of current research on this[/QUOTE]

And most disagrees with this article.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 10:00 AM

You just made my point very clear of the purpose of this thread. You think I am so naive and stupid that I cant sense your motives.

Yes your correct, I will avoid this topic after this message.

Stupidity knows no limits

Sorry to break it you, but I do not read your illogical posts unless you comment on mine. I would prefer you don't comment on my threads

You think too much of yourself. Your not worth addressing aside from being told about yourself

I did not Post this article to get mental cases banned

Rules will be enforced and you have broken rules

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 10:01 AM

Anyway Iam out of this thread for good.

dont say things your not capable of doing

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:02 AM

Ozzy iv read your posts, thought you were smarter that than to think the tradition of older men marrying young girls started with muhammed pbuh, truth is you go back 1400 years anyware in the world and it was the same, which means your great great great great grandfather most likely have married a very young girl which people nowdays would regard as being peadophillic.

I did not mean pedophilia started with him, I meant your religion started with him.

the tradition of marrying young girls started to dissapear slowly in the advent of Islam, previous to Muhammed PBUH women were nomore than pets. Islam doesnt embrace peodophilla.

Unfortunately, some parts of it do.

just look into england just a 100 years ago it was legal to marry a girl of 12 years old. how can someone have such a crude realization of history.

Just because it was common does not make it right.

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 10:07 AM

I did not mean pedophilia started with him, I meant your religion started with him..

No Islam didnt start with him

Unfortunately, some parts of it do. ..

No parts do.

Just because it was common does not make it right.

Ok so scientifically it was right, if it was common and accepted then moraly it was right aswel. so if scientifically and moraly it was right then what was the problem??

Morals are not simply 'nature'. According to your logic, there is no such thing as murder, because if I can kill someone, nature said it was 'ok'.

Until you can prove the contrary, Aisha was pubescent when she was engaged with the messenger of Allah

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married Ayesha (r.a) once she attained puberty with
1. Her consent
2. consent of her parents
3. the approval of the community

People as young as 7 or 9 are too young to give such consent, and the community and her parents consenting to an immoral act does not make it moral.

Ayesha (r.a) never complained in her life that The Prophet (pbuh) took advantage of her. In fact she said no one else could control their desires like The Prophet (pbuh) could. She was a happy and proud wife throughout.
If you can show these things today then there is nothing bad in﻿ marrying a girl of that age.

Well, other than the fact that she was a young child. Just because she did not complain only goes to show you how immature, and twisted that society was that that was not a point of a problem.

While I disagree with the assertion that this marriage can be debated, I find it very interesting that someone who does not believe in the authenticity of the hadiths would actually believe it did happen exactly the way it is written in those scriptures.... It seems that hypocrisy is something that your religion should take fairly lightly.

Salam

First off, I am an atheist, and have no religion. Secondly, considering the amount of people that base their lives on the hadiths it doesn't matter if they were real events or not. What matters is that people use them to excuse terrible behavior, and that many muslims consider them true -- which means the claim that only atheists can be pedophiles is silly.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 10:09 AM

I have had a number of complaints about these threads and the purpose that they serve. There is a sound argument put by some of the complainants that the number of threads on a similar topic amounts to a Spam Attack and as a result, I am merging them into one place.

As the thread starter pointed out a couple of posts in keywords in Google Search will bring up a list of hits for those with an interest in the topic. My own opinion on this, is that the issue of child sexual abuse requires much more sensitive treatment than has been afforded by some here. There appears to have been a deliberate attempt to flame than open up the issue for civil discussion. The result is that the serious discussion is largely absent in the threads so far.

The other issue, related to key word searches and the linkbacks that this generates is the kind of attention that may be drawn to topics headed 'pedophilia', 'porn' etc. Only a couple of days ago, I put a general Announcement about taking care with titles.

Furthermore, it is wrong for any Member to masquerade as another Member and to attribute posts or edits to that person. I share this reminder here because it has happened in this space though note that this is a clear violation of House Rules and I will not hesitate to remove posting privileges should a repeat of this occur.

Do not make this thread about spamming

Especially when atheists are given freedom to have discussion.

Do not point out my comments which were responses

Do not question intent since you do not do that with others

This is not a violation and rules can not be made up

Thanks

This is a research article which has been posted. You don't suddenly start taking concern and questioning my intent

My intent is not to be questioned as it is irrelevant. To do so is borderline hypothetical and only nonsense.

I expect non interference on this matter

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:10 AM

No Islam didnt start with him

Before him, no islam, after him islam. Historically the world did not know of islam prior to his 'revelation'.

No parts do.

Unfortunately, people have already posted proof contrary to your claim in this very thread.

Ok so scientifically it was right, if it was common and accepted then moraly it was right aswel. so if scientifically and moraly it was right then what was the problem??

Huh? I don't understand the question without context. What does science and morals say is OK?

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:12 AM

Do not make this thread about spamming

Especially when atheists are given freedom to have discussion.

Do not point out my comments which were responses

You can break the rules in responses.

Do not question intent since you do not do that with others

This is not a violation and rules can not be made up

The admins can do whatever they want. It's their site.

Thanks

This is just like the posts made by athiests

Except, not. It's a deliberate spam, and a deliberate troll attempt.

I expect non interference on this matter

Expect what you want -- only admin_khan is guaranteed to get what he expects here.

graveyardofempires

12-09-2011, 10:15 AM

Guys
afghanistan made it to the final in football

afghanistan vs india

bte dotn waste your time on atheists,

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 10:17 AM

Please don't derail this thread buddy ozmyamdas

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 10:17 AM

Before him, no islam, after him islam. Historically the world did not know of islam prior to his 'revelation'.

It doesnt make a difference if the world knew or not, there were muslims before Muhammed, jesus was one of them and so was Abraham, we will leave this one out though, its neither here neither there.

Unfortunately, people have already posted proof contrary to your claim in this very thread..

Unfortunatly thats not classed as proof. if a Muslim does a bad action doesnt mean he is doing it in the name of Islam.

Huh? I don't understand the question without context. What does science and morals say is OK?

its simple. is your morals not derived from the society you live in? you said moraly it was unacceptable when it wasnt moraly unacceptable at the time, therefore moraly it was accepted to marry young girls and not against morals. Science also agreed, thats why i said 'were was the problem'???

graveyardofempires

12-09-2011, 10:19 AM

Please don't derail this thread buddy ozmyamdas
ozzymandis is an american on a mission to spread falsehood among pashtuns.

dont waste time on peopel who are irrelevant to pashtuns.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:25 AM

It doesnt make a difference if the world knew or not, there were muslims before Muhammed, jesus was one of them and so was Abraham, we will leave this one out though, its neither here neither there.

Fair enough. I do not believe you have any historical evidence to back up this claim, but we can carry that in another thread.

Unfortunatly thats not classed as proof. if a Muslim does a bad action doesnt mean he is doing it in the name of Islam.

Never said they were. They are no more doing it in the name of Islam than an atheist pedophile is doing in the name of atheism. I am simply saying that they exist, and are Muslims, contrary to the claims presented by unknownprince. In fact, many of them use their religion to justify their pedophilia.

its simple. is your morals not derived from the society you live in?

Nope. They are derived from an understanding of suffering, and the feeling of compassion, and the logical stance that the best way to protect my rights is to protect them in others.

you said moraly it was unacceptable when it wasnt moraly unacceptable at the time, therefore moraly it was accepted to marry young girls and not against morals. Science also agreed

Science actually has shown that pedophilia is quite harmful to the victims.

, thats why i said 'were was the problem'???

The fact that it is harmful to the victims is the problem.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 10:26 AM

The Atheists are getting insecure.

This article was posted up for educational purposes where this Jewish Rabbi presents his research on linking atheism with an immoral lifestyle where there is no apparent distinction between right and wrong.

Debate is appreciated as his article is well researched if you all read it

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:33 AM

ozzymandis is an american on a mission to spread falsehood among pashtuns.

dont waste time on peopel who are irrelevant to pashtuns.

This is a lie, and borders on a personal attack.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:37 AM

No it does not. The word 'peadophilia' and all this terminology did not exist before the nineteenth century.
Peadophilia does not exist.
Atheists do not exist either.
Either you worship The Creator of Everything, or you worship The Creation (false gods or your own desires in that case).

I guess I do not exist, because I worship nothing.

Your illogic is amusing. If there was not a word for it prior to the 19th century it does not exist? What a barren world you live in.

If the criteria to judge whether someone can be married is not puberty. Then what is it ? The apporval of a bunch of psychiatrists whose opinions were built on a common cultural and environmental doxa ? The politicians ? Then why isn't the age of consent the same in all secular countries ?

Because not all political systems are equal, or value the same things.

Yes it does. What the Prophet did is moral. What you do which contradicts what The Creator said is not.

I am not going to argue with you.
Either you are a muslim and believe hadiths are true and you can use such arguments or you are an idolater and believe they are not and you recognize that such an argument is deeply fallacious and you leave this thread.

Peace - Salam

I'll go with the third, I will stay an atheist, which is neither muslim, not an idolater, I will recognize that they are clearly nor true, but many think they are, and I will point out the immorality they condone is the exact immorality people are falsely condemning all atheists for. I will try to be as respectful as possible, but I am not leaving unless one of the admins ask me to.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 10:39 AM

I have had a number of complaints about these threads and the purpose that they serve. There is a sound argument put by some of the complainants that the number of threads on a similar topic amounts to a Spam Attack and as a result, I am merging them into one place.
I in fact already requested you to merge the threads. Do not attribute this to a spam attack. That is highly inappropriate as I posted just after your post here earlier to merge the threads.

As the thread starter pointed out a couple of posts in keywords in Google Search will bring up a list of hits for those with an interest in the topic. I was responding to a question by DZJ. I was interested in reading up about the link between atheism and pedophilia. It is completely irrelevant even to how I found the article or why I found it.

My own opinion on this, is that the issue of child sexual abuse requires much more sensitive treatment than has been afforded by some here. Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Feel free to elaborate and post up evidence or researched articles as I did.

There appears to have been a deliberate attempt to flame than open up the issue for civil discussion. The result is that the serious discussion is largely absent in the threads so far. Deliberate attempt? An article about Atheism and Pedophilia was posted up. This is a well and ongoing researched subject. The discussion so far appears to be getting derailed by self-proclaimed atheists who do not want to have a debate about this.

Please again, do not make assumptions here.

The other issue, related to key word searches and the linkbacks that this generates is the kind of attention that may be drawn to topics headed 'pedophilia', 'porn' etc. Only a couple of days ago, I put a general Announcement about taking care with titles. Irrelevant. The article is about Atheism and pedophilia. There is no way around this to accommodate atheists. It is an article, a well research and scholarly article.

Furthermore, it is wrong for any Member to masquerade as another Member and to attribute posts or edits to that person. I share this reminder here because it has happened in this space though note that this is a clear violation of House Rules and I will not hesitate to remove posting privileges should a repeat of this occur. Please explain which member you are alluding to because others could think I am doing this, and I am not.

Excuse me, but this does not hold, no forum rules have been violated here. Merely questioning intent is a pretty weak argument to say the least. Very weak.

As with other threads, there can only be non-interference on this matter. Others need to be informed to stop derailing the thread, and discuss the issues at hand in a civil manner.

In the future before one resorts to this breakdown and questioning, it would be wise to think very clearly about this

graveyardofempires

12-09-2011, 10:44 AM

This is a lie, and borders on a personal attack.
this is the truth
and lying is something atheist do as they do not believe in truth.

otherwise why would you hang aroudn here?what is your purpose for being here apart from attacking Islam and spreading falsehood.

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 10:46 AM

Fair enough. I do not believe you have any historical evidence to back up this claim, but we can carry that in another thread..

OK

Never said they were. They are no more doing it in the name of Islam than an atheist pedophile is doing in the name of atheism. I am simply saying that they exist, and are Muslims, contrary to the claims presented by unknownprince. In fact, many of them use their religion to justify their pedophilia..

I know the atheist pedos are not doing it in the name of atheism, my response was to your statement assuming Muhammad pbuh and anyone who follows him automatically agrees with pedophiles.

Nope. They are derived from an understanding of suffering, and the feeling of compassion, and the logical stance that the best way to protect my rights is to protect them in others...

Emotions such as understanding and hatred is at the root of morality, our judgements of good and evil are influenced by emotional reactions such as empathy and disgust. It was moraly ok for women to be mistreated and moraly accepted for older men to marry young women, in arab society and anglo saxon society if not even worse in europe. moraly i say being homosexual is incorrect while you may agree with homosexual activity - whos right? we can debate that now but you cant sit there and say 1400 years ago the arabs were immoral because the whole world had the same philosophy.

Science actually has shown that pedophilia is quite harmful to the victims.

for that statement to be true that would mean more or less all the ment in the world till the 1900's were all pedophiles

The fact that it is harmful to the victims is the problem.

if theres a type of person i have 0% sympathy for it would be a pedophile, id be able to watch a pedo get skind alive while i eat my food and have no emotion in me what so ever.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:47 AM

this is the truth
and lying is something atheist do as they do not believe in truth.

Actually, all atheists believe in truth. I have no idea where you get your opinions, but that's insanely silly to claim. Atheists and scientists are very much mindful of the truth, and seek it out constantly.

otherwise why would you hang aroudn here?what is your purpose for being here apart from attacking Islam and spreading falsehood.

Actually, all atheists believe in truth. I have no idea where you get your opinions, but that's insanely silly to claim. Atheists and scientists are very much mindful of the truth, and seek it out constantly.

wth are you talking about?

you guys believe in falsehood and this is the opinion of 99.99.9% of Pashtuns.

so again what is your reason for being here,apart from promoting falsehood and being closed minded?

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:51 AM

I know the atheist pedos are not doing it in the name of atheism, my response was to your statement assuming Muhammad pbuh and anyone who follows him automatically agrees with pedophiles.

Unless you reject his actions, you do.

Emotions such as understanding and hatred is at the root of morality, our judgements of good and evil are influenced by emotional reactions such as empathy and disgust. It was moraly ok for women to be mistreated and moraly accepted for older men to marry young women, in arab society and anglo saxon society if not even worse in europe. moraly i say being homosexual is incorrect while you may agree with homosexual activity - whos right? we can debate that now but you cant sit there and say 1400 years ago the arabs were immoral because the whole world had the same philosophy.

for that statement to be true that would mean more or less all the ment in the world till the 1900's were all pedophiles

Not necessarily. There has not always been a huge disparity in age between men an women at marriage, and pedophilia is less of a concern when the age gap is small. We are talking here, were 50 year old (or older) men are marrying 7 year olds, or are sexually abusing 7 year olds, not 20 year old men marrying 16 year olds.

if theres a type of person i have 0% sympathy for it would be a pedophile, id be able to watch a pedo get skind alive while i eat my food and have no emotion in me what so ever.

I agree with that.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 10:54 AM

Nah homie we dont need to threaten people for their views, or launch character assaults because we re threatened by the beliefs of others

The article is well researched in explaining the link between atheism and pedophilia. The author gives a well thought out analysis.

No one, no atheist is being threatened here for their views.

Pedophilia exists everywhere and amongst all faiths. However, recent research seems to be linking the immorality of pedophilia with atheism.

It is well known that atheists blur the distinction between right and wrong, and this is what the author of this article is pointing to in regards to pedophilia.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 10:54 AM

wth are you talking about?

you guys believe in falsehood and this is the opinion of 99.99.9% of Pashtuns.

A fact is not a fact because it is popular. Reality does not care if people agree with it. We believe in reality, and systematically finding what structures reality. It's not important if you agree with that -- it's still a fact.

You are welcome to believe that we believe in 'falsehood', but I can scientifically prove you wrong in that claim, and not once will popularity matter.

so again what is your reason for being here,apart from promoting falsehood and being closed minded?

See my last answer to this question.

Alchemist

12-09-2011, 10:57 AM

Once again your ignorance shows.

Your dyslexia shows.

Alchemist this thread reminds me of the one you wasted everyone's time over about Kate Middleton's friend and her party.
You know very well as everyone else in here that 60 or 50 year old men marrying 13 years old girls in afghanistan is an actual issue that does exist in our society an deserves to be addressed as it affects out people while atheist who is in to this sort of thing is an idea that only roams in the wild imagination of people like you and unknownprince.
I have said this before and I will say it again.. I don't have a problem with anyone pulling faults in any religion culture or system as long as its done in a respectful manner with good intentions and for the right reasons. You playing this war filled with propaganda against the atheist by pulling out crap like this while they use the marriage of the prophet with Ayesha pbuh is insulting to people of actual belief in both sides. You are both munafiqs because you are misusing what you believe in knowing very well that it's not the best argument you could placing out there.
So stop making yourselves seem like a joke by kidding around like this.
Anyways, this thread is about to get violated on many levels and I would like for myself not to be a witness when that happens. Enjoy each others company.
And jamaludeen, don't flatter yourself. You were exchanging a few sentences with an individual who has not had the pleasure of any sleep in the last three days.

Sorry...

I don't read long and boring posts.

Under the Taliban, a couple who happen to love each other can be publically stoned to death infront of the community shows to us the deluded and evil intentions people have for our nation and people as a whole.

I hope more and more Pashtuns wake up and realise the seriously bad state our people are in.

By couple you mean a boy and a man?

Oh soo now Soldout Khamir is defending pedophilia ...

In any case...

I want to make it clear for the all the atheists. We Muslims are not making a big deal about the "age" but the "genders" of the love. It's boy-man, man-man that is classed as Sodomy. And sodomy is HARAM! An entire city of sodomites was destroy. In a country where Sodomy is the norm doom is for sure. (And hey..for all you know maybe its because of all this bachabazi and charsi bangis that Afghanistan is getting a taste of the wrath of Allah)

So all this gibberish about the "bride childs"...doesn't relate.

Put on your thinking hats atheists. Impress me!

tor_khan

12-09-2011, 10:58 AM

as with other threads, there can only be non-interference on this matter. Others need to be informed to stop derailing the thread, and discuss the issues at hand in a civil manner.

In the future before one resorts to this breakdown and questioning, it would be wise to think very clearly about this

زما د پلار نیکه نه یی چې ما له د وچي حکم راکوی

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 11:02 AM

While I disagree with the assertion that atheism leads to pedophilia, I find it very interesting that a follower of Mohammad would actually have a problem with that.... It seems that pedophilia is something that your religion should take fairly lightly, given it's history in your religion.

This is now twice on this thread that our the Prophet(pbuh) has been attacked.

Their reaction is very vile and can not be tolerated.

I request immediate attention to this matter

If they are unable to have a constructive debate about this well researched article, and they instead resort to this, action must be taken.

I have reported the post, and expect results as this is a violation of forum rules.

graveyardofempires

12-09-2011, 11:05 AM

A fact is not a fact because it is popular. Reality does not care if people agree with it. We believe in reality, and systematically finding what structures reality. It's not important if you agree with that -- it's still a fact.

You are welcome to believe that we believe in 'falsehood', but I can scientifically prove you wrong in that claim, and not once will popularity matter.

See my last answer to this question.
you havent proven anythiung
all you do is avoid and say "hey cuz i say so"
this has nothing to do with science more with anti religion.

Non-interference is requested unless you have a contribution to make to this discussion.

Otherwise, interruptions will only downgrade the discussion.

I have also alerted you to the insulting of our Prophet(pbuh) here with my reports. I think this is more urgent of you to take care of rather than question my intent which is 1) irrelevant and 2) very weak way of discussing forum rules, rules which have not been broken.

Your cooperation is appreciated

thanks

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 11:07 AM

Unless you reject his actions, you do..

Sorry Sir, but your not anyware near qualified enough to give that statement out.

Not necessarily. There has not always been a huge disparity in age between men an women at marriage, and pedophilia is less of a concern when the age gap is small. We are talking here, were 50 year old (or older) men are marrying 7 year olds, or are sexually abusing 7 year olds, not 20 year old men marrying 16 year olds...

Oh yes they has always been a huge disparity in age between men and women, read some greek history, persian history, even amazonian/jungle middle age tribesmen take to child girls, Joseph was 90 years old when he married teenage Mary. right now you wouldnt think ov marrying a 10 year old but i bet if you were around about 2 thousand years ago you wouldnt even think twice about it, shy away from it as much as you want but thats the truth and youl agree if you have any knowledge of history which im sure you do.

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 11:09 AM

The article is purely educational, and it is well researched.

Non-interference is requested unless you have a contribution to make to this discussion.

Otherwise, interruptions will only downgrade the discussion.

I have also alerted you to the insulting of our Prophet(pbuh) here with my reports. I think this is more urgent of you to take care of rather than question my intent which is 1) irrelevant and 2) very weak way of discussing forum rules, rules which have not been broken.

Your cooperation is appreciated

thanks

chill out, kala kala masharaan ta khaa owaya, ul get banned again.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 11:09 AM

Your dyslexia shows.

Sorry...

I don't read long and boring posts.

By couple you mean a boy and a man?

Oh soo now Soldout Khamir is defending pedophilia ...

In any case...

I want to make it clear for the all the atheists. We Muslims are not making a big deal about the "age" but the "genders" of the love. It's boy-man, man-man that is classed as Sodomy. And sodomy is HARAM! An entire city of sodomites was destroy. In a country where Sodomy is the norm doom is for sure. (And hey..for all you know maybe its because of all this bachabazi and charsi bangis that Afghanistan is getting a taste of the wrath of Allah)

So all this gibberish about the "bride childs"...doesn't relate.

Then you should leave the thread about pedophilia. Pedophilia is about *age* not *gender*. This thread is about the *AGE* of the people. Boy-man is just as much pedophilia as girl-man, and man-man is, well, not pedophilia.

[/quote]

Put on your thinking hats atheists. Impress me![/QUOTE]

Huh? You are the one having trouble understanding this thread, and in need of a 'thinking hat', since you are being confused and talking homosexuality.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 11:11 AM

This is now twice on this thread that our the Prophet(pbuh) has been attacked.

Their reaction is very vile and can not be tolerated.

This is no more of an attack on the prophet than this thread is an attack on atheists.

I request immediate attention to this matter

If they are unable to have a constructive debate about this well researched article, and they instead resort to this, action must be taken.

I have reported the post, and expect results as this is a violation of forum rules.

I will abide by the admin's decision.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 11:12 AM

you havent proven anythiung
all you do is avoid and say "hey cuz i say so"

This is yet another lie.

this has nothing to do with science more with anti religion.

again

what is your purpose for being here?

Once again, already answered this question. See the link for a nice, long, complete answer.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 11:16 AM

Sorry Sir, but your not anyware near qualified enough to give that statement out.

Feel free to believe that. It is my understanding that all Muslim's respect Mohammad. I could be wrong, though.

Oh yes they has always been a huge disparity in age between men and women, read some greek history, persian history, even amazonian/jungle middle age tribesmen take to child girls, Joseph was 90 years old when he married teenage Mary.

This claim will also need to be discussed in another thread, as it is equally suspect historically.

right now you wouldnt think ov marrying a 10 year old but i bet if you were around about 2 thousand years ago you wouldnt even think twice about it, shy away from it as much as you want but thats the truth and youl agree if you have any knowledge of history which im sure you do.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say? Just because it was common makes it moral?

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 11:16 AM

chill out, kala kala masharaan ta khaa owaya, ul get banned again.

I cant get banned as I have not broken and WILL not break any forum rules :)

But, others who have commented here have in fact violated forum rules, posts which I have reported.

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 11:19 AM

I cant get banned as I have not broken and WILL not break any forum rules :)

But, others who have commented here have in fact violated forum rules, posts which I have reported.

Admins can ban whomever they want, regardless of what rules they do, or don't break.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 11:22 AM

Refrain from derailing and trolling this thread

If you can not handle the discussion, then do not discuss

ozymandias

12-09-2011, 11:23 AM

Refrain from derailing and trolling this thread

If you can not handle the discussion, then do not discuss

This thread *is* a troll, and many of the comments you claim are derailing it are on topic -- just ones you disagree with and cannot refute.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 11:26 AM

Your dyslexia shows.
Sorry...
I don't read long and boring posts.

Pardon me for not being in the habit of articulating my arguments by mentioning people's underwear during a discussion where I stand to be on the side of those claiming to be the defenders of Islam.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 11:32 AM

this was the most important point he made in the article. I have highlighted/bolded parts to pay attention to.

“Morality is the custom of one’s country and the current feeling of one’s peers. Cannibalism is moral in a cannibalistic country.” (Samuel Butler)
Since these values are nothing more than reflections of the prevalent subjective preferences they obviously will shift and metamorphose to accommodate changing needs and attitudes. In my own lifetime I have witnessed radical societal swings in moral behavior and attitudes regarding marriage and sexuality, homosexuality, the killing of unborn children, euthanasia, and the use of illicit drugs.
One can reasonably predict that as the infatuation with skepticism and atheism grows among the influential “intellectual elite” of our society, so too will their readiness to embrace more radical changes in moral values. Religious believers expressing dismay and horror at the ominous moral storm clouds looming on the horizon are met with smug derision, hysterical counter-accusations, or utter indifference. There is nothing that atheistic societies are incapable of rationalizing and accepting – including the sexual molestation of children.
No doubt, this assertion will appear preposterous to some atheists, and will spark outrage. Yet the logical and philosophical consequences of atheists’ belief systems are inescapable. When asked by journalist William Crawley if he thought that pedophilia was “just wrong.” Professor Peter Singer of Princeton University – a world-famous philosopher of “ethics” – responded as follows:
I don’t have intrinsic moral taboos. My view is not that anything is just wrong…You’re trying to put words in my mouth.” (

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 11:36 AM

Feel free to believe that. It is my understanding that all Muslim's respect Mohammad. I could be wrong, though.

Yes Muslims respect Mohammad, but he was no pedophile.

Read this in your own time:

-------------------------------------------

Okay, lets have a look at the psyche of a typical pedophile, and see how much of it fits Muhammad shall we? Quoted text is taken from Understanding the Pedophile Psyche, courtesy of the Police Federation of England & Wales:

http://www.polfed.org/magazine/08_2001/80_2001_paedophile.htm (http://www.polfed.org/magazine/08_2001/80_2001_paedophile.htm)
"Low self esteem. Many pedophiles, although by no means all, do not have a great sense of capacity for adopting a sexual demeanor towards adults or those of their own age or older. They feel unhappy and fearful at the prospect of sexual behaviour with adults and hence turn to children due to the fact that they are unable to have the strength of personality to seek adults for sexual demeanor. When considering treatment therefore it is important to establish and develop a higher sense of self-esteem in such individuals."

As well as being married to Aisha, he was also married to many other women during his life. He wasn't certainly suffering from low self-esteem. Therefore, this does not apply to Muhammad.

"Lack of impulse control. Many pedophiles find it extremely difficult to deal with the impulsive nature which inclines them towards sexual behaviour to children. They simply cannot control their need for engaging children in sexual practices. They might be said to suffer from an obsessive-compulsive condition. Here again treatment would involve developing better impulse control and of course redirecting the sexual inclinations."

As has been mentioned before, Muhammad waited for at least two years before consummating the marriage. Therefore, this point of 'lack of self control' does not apply to Muhammad. Also, fasting during Ramadan requires abstention from sexual relations. Why would Muhammad practise this if he had no self-control?

"Denial. Many pedophiles deny there is anything wrong with having sexual relations with children and many will in due course paradoxically deny having carried out such practices should they be confronted. It is vital to change the attitudes of such individuals much as in the lack of empathy with their victim."

Muhammad never once denied having sex with his wife. Also note the use of the term 'victim'. Aisha could not be described as a victim. Therefore, this does not apply to Muhammad.

"History of previous pedophile activity. Many pedophiles have carried out minor or major acts of pedophile behaviour in the past and this has led to habit as well as the obsessive-compulsive nature of the act towards children. It is vital here to promote alternative habits i.e. in attitudes and demeanor of sexual behaviour with adults."

Muhammad has no history of pedophile activity whatsoever. Also, as I pointed out, all of Muhammad's other wives were adult, and there is no evidence of him being obsessed with children. Therefore, this doesn't apply to Muhammad.

"Poor family relationships - many pedophiles have come from families that are in chaos or are lacking in stability. This has led them to view sexual behaviour with children rather than adults as acceptable especially if this has been practised upon them by a member of the family in the past. Although it is difficult to reverse what has happened in the past through discussion or attitude changes it is vital that insight must be gained by the individual into how his/her pedophile activity originated and was developed through the family dynamics."

Although he was orphaned at a young age, Muhammad was always very close to all his family members, and advocated that whosoever cuts the bond of kith and kin, he/she would be denied paradise. Therefore, this does not apply to Muhammad.

"Low IQ - there are pedophiles who have low intelligence but by no means all are in this category. Where this is the case appropriate therapeutic efforts must be made to develop understanding of what they are doing wrong and what they must do to change."

Despite being illiterate, Muhammad had a reputation for being a very bright young boy, an excellent trader, and an extremely wise man. Therefore, this point does not apply to Muhammad.

"Loneliness, depression and relationship needs - this particular trait is associated with low self-esteem and lack of empathy with the victim. Many pedophiles are lonely individuals who live on their own and have found it difficult to establish relationships with adults, especially for sexual purposes. Some suffer from psychological problems and even psychotic illnesses. Here intensive treatment and monitoring is in order."

Muhammad wasn't suffering from depression when he married Aisha.
Also, low self-esteem, loneliness, and difficulty to establish relations could not be attributed to Muhammad.

"Having been themselves sexually abused - many pedophiles have themselves been sexually abused in the past by adults. They merely imitate what they experienced and continue their activity considering it as appropriate since it was done to them."

This certainly isn't true.
I have demonstrated that, despite the fact Muhammad married a nine-year old girl, he could NOT be considered a pedophile

-------------------------------------------------

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 11:41 AM

back to the topic of atheism and pedophilia and the points made clear by the author of this article.

I highlighted the post before Manzarehs.

Please discuss, and for those who can not discuss civilly, then refrain all together.

al-arab

12-09-2011, 11:47 AM

I am disgusted by seeing some of the ignorant, untruthful and un-Islamic comments by the well-known atheitst here. I think there should be taken meassures against them out of respect for Islam.

What is wrong with UnknownPrince thread? I have not read it all and seen all videos but it is highly plausible that pedophilia is more common among atheists. It would be very logical because they believe in their own often perverted laws and desires.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 12:11 PM

I would like to take this opportunity to express the immense amount of love and appreciation i have in my heart for tropicana orange juice with pulp. It's almost like heaven.

:runaround:

Insaaf_انصاف

12-09-2011, 12:12 PM

They have to lock this thread

Alchemist

12-09-2011, 01:00 PM

All rubbish!

OZzy...

The Atheist Professors of ETHICS at the University are arguing that pedophilia is not bad.

What is bad and what is wrong?

Let's have a discussion on ethics then?

God forbids Sodomy. This is why it is wrong.

But what is your problem with a man and a child having a sexual relationship?
What do you see negative about it?
Why won't you say why you believe paedophilia is wrong? What is your source of Morality?

And unknownprince...
for the record our holy prophet peace be upon him has not been insulted. Yes he married Aisha...and if they mention that so what?

Let them take pedophilia out of the DSM-IV (the bible of psychologists). The DSM V or VI or whatever edition it is at. The DSM is a joke anyway...I've heard even "Road Rage" is classified as a mental disease too..and "Caffeine Addiction"?

Regardless...
Dazohra...I am not defending Islam here. I am just stating the truth.
In your mind you are defending Islam because you want to censor all taboo discussions. I take it that you are trying to escape the realities of life in your novels and on this forums. "Child bride" marriages should be discussed because they are real in afghanistan? So what? Hue Heffner is what? 90 something years old? The whole of the western world loves him for what he has done for their culture. And how many women does he keep in his harem? Why is it acceptable in the west but questionable in the middle east? Aren't we all humans after all? Should your morals only apply in one niche of the whole world?

We need to study our own assumptions here. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon and recycling old arguments.

Let's have a debate on ethics...what are the ethics of atheists anyway?

Manzareh

12-09-2011, 01:35 PM

^ that post reminded me of rocky when he runs up the stairs

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 01:55 PM

First of all I didn't know who Hue Hefner was prior to this so he most definitely did not have my respect to begin with. Secondly, the women he keeps around him are of legal age, not 13 year olds. They are adults who have chosen to be with him by their own choice and are not forced, married and sold off by their relatives or parents and expected to have children and carry the responsibilities that come along with being the spouse of a 60 year old afghan man. The women hue Hefner keeps around him are not expected to have the responsibility of looking after a household. I don't know why you are using him to justify child brides.. Besides , our morals and idea of excellence should exceed that of the types of Hue Hefner. We as afghans and muslims don't have to live up to the standards of those who don't speak our language, are not familiar or living according to our culture and do not follow our religion. There is nothing wrong with changing a negative aspect of a culture.

Also alchemist, I am not scimitarxedge. Don't act like a bitch around me by mocking my taste in literature because I don't have it in me to return you the favor by making nasty remarks about your restaurant or physical appearance. Well, I have it in me but I would rather not.

You know, for some odd reason I expected you and unknownprince as the type of individuals who would be more dedicted to reading about Islam, praying and stuff like that but seem to me like the two of you would rather spend your time either doing research on pornography or personalities like hue Hefner. How disappointing...

JAMALUDEEN

12-09-2011, 02:13 PM

an atheist has babies raped for science! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pekCnmzEq4)

This guy is adored by most atheists - Arguments for Atheism - Famous Atheists (http://argumentsforatheism.com/famous.html)
Alfred Kinsey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Kinsey)

Kinsey was also shown to be an atheist who loathed religion and its constraints on sex. All sexual activity is natural, he said. The main reason that children are not sexually active and adults tend to be heterosexual is because of “cultural restraints” and “societal inhibitions,” he said in his 1948 report.

unknownprince

12-09-2011, 02:15 PM

All rubbish!

OZzy...

The Atheist Professors of ETHICS at the University are arguing that pedophilia is not bad.

What is bad and what is wrong?

Let's have a discussion on ethics then?

God forbids Sodomy. This is why it is wrong.

But what is your problem with a man and a child having a sexual relationship?
What do you see negative about it?
Why won't you say why you believe paedophilia is wrong? What is your source of Morality?

And unknownprince...
for the record our holy prophet peace be upon him has not been insulted. Yes he married Aisha...and if they mention that so what?

Let them take pedophilia out of the DSM-IV (the bible of psychologists). The DSM V or VI or whatever edition it is at. The DSM is a joke anyway...I've heard even "Road Rage" is classified as a mental disease too..and "Caffeine Addiction"?

Regardless...
Dazohra...I am not defending Islam here. I am just stating the truth.
In your mind you are defending Islam because you want to censor all taboo discussions. I take it that you are trying to escape the realities of life in your novels and on this forums. "Child bride" marriages should be discussed because they are real in afghanistan? So what? Hue Heffner is what? 90 something years old? The whole of the western world loves him for what he has done for their culture. And how many women does he keep in his harem? Why is it acceptable in the west but questionable in the middle east? Aren't we all humans after all? Should your morals only apply in one niche of the whole world?

We need to study our own assumptions here. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon and recycling old arguments.

Let's have a debate on ethics...what are the ethics of atheists anyway?

Thanks for bringing this discussion to a more professional start.

They were mocking the Prophet(pbuh) and I expect that to be taken care of very shortly. One even was more explicit

It appears they can not handle a proper debate on this topic

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 02:34 PM

^ you are such a crybaby. :glare:

Alchemist

12-09-2011, 04:24 PM

First of all I didn't know who Hue Hefner was prior to this so he most definitely did not have my respect to begin with. Secondly, the women he keeps around him are of legal age, not 13 year olds. They are adults who have chosen to be with him by their own choice and are not forced, married and sold off by their relatives or parents and expected to have children and carry the responsibilities that come along with being the spouse of a 60 year old afghan man. The women hue Hefner keeps around him are not expected to have the responsibility of looking after a household. I don't know why you are using him to justify child brides.. Besides , our morals and idea of excellence should exceed that of the types of Hue Hefner. We as afghans and muslims don't have to live up to the standards of those who don't speak our language, are not familiar or living according to our culture and do not follow our religion. There is nothing wrong with changing a negative aspect of a culture.

Also alchemist, I am not scimitarxedge. Don't act like a bitch around me by mocking my taste in literature because I don't have it in me to return you the favor by making nasty remarks about your restaurant or physical appearance. Well, I have it in me but I would rather not.

You know, for some odd reason I expected you and unknownprince as the type of individuals who would be more dedicted to reading about Islam, praying and stuff like that but seem to me like the two of you would rather spend your time either doing research on pornography or personalities like hue Hefner. How disappointing...

You are disappointed?
Well I can't say the same for you. I didn't have much expectation from a bipolar manic depressant.

Just answer this:

What is the big difference between a 13 year old girl and an 18 year old girl?

It can't be biological. Most girls by age 13 have reached puberty and developed sexual organs that are fully functional through out the rest of their lives.

It can't be psychological. According Jean Piaget's Cognitive development theory by age 11+ both boys and girls are able to abstract and manipulate ideas as adults.

What makes the legal age a magical number anyway?

What is the big difference between a 13 year old and a 16 year old...when 16 year old can drive a car, join the army and have sexual relationships when anyone he or she chooses? What is the difference between a 16 year old and a 19 year old to choose to drink?

Oh ...wtf am I doing? Trying to reason with you? sheesh ..i just wasted 5 minutes of my life...ops...carry on lil girl. You are excused.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 05:25 PM

You are disappointed?
Well I can't say the same for you. I didn't have much expectation from a bipolar manic depressant.
Just answer this:
What is the big difference between a 13 year old girl and an 18 year old girl?
It can't be biological. Most girls by age 13 have reached puberty and developed sexual organs that are fully functional through out the rest of their lives.
It can't be psychological. According Jean Piaget's Cognitive development theory by age 11+ both boys and girls are able to abstract and manipulate ideas as adults.
What makes the legal age a magical number anyway?
What is the big difference between a 13 year old and a 16 year old...when 16 year old can drive a car, join the army and have sexual relationships when anyone he or she chooses? What is the difference between a 16 year old and a 19 year old to choose to drink?

Oh ...wtf am I doing? Trying to reason with you? sheesh ..i just wasted 5 minutes of my life...ops...carry on lil girl. You are excused.

:glare:
Are you seriously this stooo,pid or are you pretending to be one?? Such a typical caveman mentality... Just because a girl has started forming the organs of a woman does not mean she is prepare for marriage or motherhood because a marriage and motherhood is not simply about having breasts. WTF!?
I can understand why a 16 or 17 year old girl who has no hopes of getting any education in the next few years of her life can be considered of being of a somewhat appropriate age for marriage but 11 and 13???
A 13 year old child doesn't have the mentality of a 60 old man do its obvious that communication between the two might not be that adventurous which results in her life being placed in danger of domestic violence and abuse both in the hands of her spouse and her in laws. It's understandable as to why a 40, 50 or 60 year old man might feel frustrated with a preteen of life partner...She doesn't understand how to take care of her husband, family, child or herself because she was not provided with the education that a young female adult gets before marriage which is between age 15-21. that is how she ends up running away from home or burned alive by her in laws or raising stupid children.
You worry about the loss of five minutes of your life but you consider it alright that a child of 13 should be married with a 60 year old man who will probably die before she reaches the age of 25. I don't know why you are constantly comparing things to the situations in the west. I never said 16 year olds driving cars and having sex with random guys in the west was a better or appropriate option for girls that age...
I would like to see you pull off your child from school at 13 and have her wed off to a 30 year old let alone a 60 year old one.
And I was trying to be humble when I said I was disappointed. The only thing I keep expectations from are my socks.

Alchemist

12-09-2011, 05:55 PM

:glare:
Are you seriously this stooo,pid or are you pretending to be one?? Such a typical caveman mentality... Just because a girl has started forming the organs of a woman does not mean she is prepare for marriage or motherhood because a marriage and motherhood is not simply about having breasts. WTF!?
I can understand why a 16 or 17 year old girl who has no hopes of getting any education in the next few years of her life can be considered of being of a somewhat appropriate age for marriage but 11 and 13???
A 13 year old child doesn't have the mentality of a 60 old man do its obvious that communication between the two might not be that adventurous which results in her life being placed in danger of domestic violence and abuse both in the hands of her spouse and her in laws. It's understandable as to why a 40, 50 or 60 year old man might feel frustrated with a preteen of life partner...She doesn't understand how to take care of her husband, family, child or herself because she was not provided with the education that a young female adult gets before marriage which is between age 15-21. that is how she ends up running away from home or burned alive by her in laws or raising stupid children.
You worry about the loss of five minutes of your life but you consider it alright that a child of 13 should be married with a 60 year old man who will probably die before she reaches the age of 25. I don't know why you are constantly comparing things to the situations in the west. I never said 16 year olds driving cars and having sex with random guys in the west was a better or appropriate option for girls that age...
I would like to see you pull off your child from school at 13 and have her wed off to a 30 year old let alone a 60 year old one.
And I was trying to be humble when I said I was disappointed. The only thing I keep expectations from are my socks.

Excuse me but it sounds like you are rationalizing your life as a bachelorette.

You said "the legal age"...legal age where? In the west obviously...in the west where 18 year old girls happily marry rich 80 year old man knowing fully well that when that man dies all his wealth will be passed on to her!

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 06:47 PM

Excuse me but it sounds like you are rationalizing your life as a bachelorette.

You said "the legal age"...legal age where? In the west obviously...in the west where 18 year old girls happily marry rich 80 year old man knowing fully well that when that man dies all his wealth will be passed on to her!
you know, when an 18 year old with a corrupted soul in the west marries a man of 80 for his money, she gets his money after his death. what sort of a fortune does a 13 year old afghan girl get once she becomes a widow? what about her innocence? how about the fact that she as an individual of a sound mind has the right to choose the type of a man she wants to live with for the rest of her life and have children with? sure, she can't do that because she is only 13 but who is at fault for that?
is the alternative of what happens to an afghan girl who is not married off at a young age anyhow relevant to the lifestyle of women of any age (let alone 18) in the west?

the reason as to why i am not insulting you for assuming things when it comes to what it is that i am trying to rationalize or my emotional state of being is because i don't have an petite for humiliating you at the moment. should i develop one at a later time, i will not hesitate once. knock yourself out.

Alchemist

12-09-2011, 10:12 PM

You make it sound like that 13 year old girl is 99% of the time some orphan.
Or the old man snatched her away from her family by force.

In afghanistan men sell their women for donkeys for a loaf of breath.

Yes, in the west it's about millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars...but for all you know that 13 year old chose to marry that old man to save her family...

This is just all hypothetical nonsense on your part.

13 year olds in the west are a different story...watch jerry springer or the murry show to get a sample of 13 year olds then you won't think 13 year olds are all innocent little lambs. Oh but an 18 year old that marries a man for his money has a corrupted soul? Who are you to judge? ...I think your problem is bollywood/hollywood/kite runner...too much liberal pretence.

IamDZJ

12-09-2011, 11:47 PM

You make it sound like that 13 year old girl is 99% of the time some orphan.
Or the old man snatched her away from her family by force.

In afghanistan men sell their women for donkeys for a loaf of breath.

Yes, in the west it's about millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars...but for all you know that 13 year old chose to marry that old man to save her family...

This is just all hypothetical nonsense on your part.

13 year olds in the west are a different story...watch jerry springer or the murry show to get a sample of 13 year olds then you won't think 13 year olds are all innocent little lambs. Oh but an 18 year old that marries a man for his money has a corrupted soul? Who are you to judge? ...I think your problem is bollywood/hollywood/kite runner...too much liberal pretence.

i never said anything like that. if she is not an orphan or snatched then her parents or family should know better than pushing her in to a situation like that. that puts even more blame on them for being irresponsible and selfish. if the old men care enough for her family and want to have mercy on her then instead of marrying them to themselves, they should get her married to their sons, brothers of nephews.
once again, the 13 year old afghan girl does not have the same mentality as the 13 year old participants of jerry springer show you speak of. who am i to judge?? i am not supposed to judge an 18 year old girl marrying an 80 year old man for his money?? wasn't that your argument earlier?? didn't you bring hue hefner guy in to this conversation by talking about how ill mannered yet respected amongst westerners he was??
you wouldn't want to know my thoughts on what you think the root of my "problem" is here..

Alchemist

12-10-2011, 01:17 AM

i never said anything like that. if she is not an orphan or snatched then her parents or family should know better than pushing her in to a situation like that. that puts even more blame on them for being irresponsible and selfish. if the old men care enough for her family and want to have mercy on her then instead of marrying them to themselves, they should get her married to their sons, brothers of nephews.
once again, the 13 year old afghan girl does not have the same mentality as the 13 year old participants of jerry springer show you speak of. who am i to judge?? i am not supposed to judge an 18 year old girl marrying an 80 year old man for his money?? wasn't that your argument earlier?? didn't you bring hue hefner guy in to this conversation by talking about how ill mannered yet respected amongst westerners he was??
you wouldn't want to know my thoughts on what you think the root of my "problem" is here..

The root of the problem is YOUR mentality.

When the issue was about Man-Boy love..."Oh! that's nasty! So unislamic of you to talk about that".
Flip it around to Girl-Man marriage ..."OH! Drop these old men in some unmarked grave!"

You only seem to get vociferous in a discussion when you can empathize with the subject, due to your egocentrism and superficial understanding of complex social issues.

Because in the later case you can relate to that little girl and think to your self: "Well if it was me at age 13? How horrible. Thank God I am independent!"

The playboy bunny that independently chooses to live in Hue's mansion like an ornament is the guilty one according to Sharia. Not the old man that marries the 13 year old. Note that in both scenarios the society at large accepts both lifestyles. My intention was to show you that your own ethics are questionable and contradictory since you presume to derive them from sharia but argue against sharia...

You don't seem to understand. I don't judge the 18 year old that marries the 80 year old man and the 50 year old man that marries the 13 year old girl. Because the key word here is: Marriage!
Marriage is a social institution that serves more than just one's innate carnal needs. Which is why it is a social function, you have a feast and announce the formation of new bonds ...so much so that even in churches the pastors asks "Does anyone here object to this holy union?" So you are the one condemning societies at large....for following their own ethics. Unlike the tradition of some from godless societies who take a long trip to thailand to spend time with prostituted children.

Like I said...we have to question our own assumptions. You seem to follow your feelings on what is right. Follow your gut feelings when it comes to your own personal affairs by all means...but we are having a philosophical discussion and if you are not able to *think* about it with a clear mind...don't waste any more of anyone else's time. In the end you are just humiliating your self when it appears that you are just speaking for the sake of speaking.

IamDZJ

12-10-2011, 02:47 AM

The root of the problem is YOUR mentality.

When the issue was about Man-Boy love..."Oh! that's nasty! So unislamic of you to talk about that".
Flip it around to Girl-Man marriage ..."OH! Drop these old men in some unmarked grave!" you dropped your tiara.. :glare:

You only seem to get vociferous in a discussion when you can empathize with the subject, due to your egocentrism and superficial understanding of complex social issues. yeah?? how else is it supposed to work if not by empathizing with the subject?? due to my egocentrism and superficial understanding of complex social situations...and where does your understanding of these complex social issues come from? and of what use is this understanding of yours if it doesn't even empathize with the subject?
Because in the later case you can relate to that little girl and think to your self: "Well if it was me at age 13? How horrible. Thank God I am independent!" shut up

The playboy bunny that independently chooses to live in Hue's mansion like an ornament is the guilty one according to Sharia. Not the old man that marries the 13 year old. i have a problem with this version of sharia you have created in your mind. if a society can't apply a law in the favor of one individual as efficiently as it does in the favor of the other then it's a faulty and useless formula to begin with...specially when that very same law is responsible for placing the less advantaged individual in that situation in the first place. if it can allow an old man to marry a young girl for the noblest reasons then why does it fail to protect the very same girl from being burned alive or abused in the hands of the man who is apparently abiding by the rules of sharia by marrying her? i refuse to accept that load of crap under the title of sharia because i think you are bull****ting. Note that in both scenarios the society at large accepts both lifestyles. doesn't mean we should continue accepting it. My intention was to show you that your own ethics are questionable and contradictory since you presume to derive them from sharia but argue against sharia... there is sharia and then the sharia that your type tends to come up with inside their heads for their own convenience.

You don't seem to understand. I don't judge the 18 year old that marries the 80 year old man and the 50 year old man that marries the 13 year old girl. Because the key word here is: Marriage! what about it? does it justify the ill treatment of another human being in the hands of a spouse or a woman marrying a man for his money only? because the magic word of marriage is the common bond between them?does it justify those two wrongs? marriage means nothing if it doesn't exist in the form and sense that the unification of two souls are meant to be joined for.
Marriage is a social institution that serves more than just one's innate carnal needs. Which is why it is a social function, you have a feast and announce the formation of new bonds ...so much so that even in churches the pastors asks "Does anyone here object to this holy union?" So you are the one condemning societies at large....for following their own ethics. Unlike the tradition of some from godless societies who take a long trip to thailand to spend time with prostituted children. who needs the trip to thailand when it's provided to you by your own community and perceived as a great deed towards humanity too...<========Like I said...we have to question our own {assumptions} You seem to follow your feelings on what is right. Follow your gut feelings when it comes to your own personal affairs by all means...but we are having a philosophical discussion and if you are not able to *think* about it with a clear mind...don't waste any more of anyone else's time. In the end you are just humiliating your self when it appears that you are just speaking for the sake of speaking.
my gut feelings tell me that you seem to be under the false impression of being bestowed some sort of a special talent by the God almighty at figuring out what people are feeling and thinking as well as having the right to speak on their behalf too while you are at it...
whether i speak because you think i speak for the sake of speaking or actually having something to speak about, the choice of speaking what i speak is for me to make, not you.
philosophical discussion my foot...

Tjanaparh

12-10-2011, 03:37 AM

I wonder how can You hold such long discussions on that topic.
A sin simply is doing pain to somebody - either You make it willingly or not.
Sins have 3 roots - lust, greed and anger.

Accordingly to how much pain a person brings in the life of the other - his sin is more heavy...
More heavy hi sin, more heavy will be the consequences!

Alchemist

12-10-2011, 09:59 AM

I wonder how can You hold such long discussions on that topic.
A sin simply is doing pain to somebody - either You make it willingly or not.
Sins have 3 roots - lust, greed and anger.

Accordingly to how much pain a person brings in the life of the other - his sin is more heavy...
More heavy hi sin, more heavy will be the consequences!

That is a pretty flimsy definition...

what about the punishment that society deals for sin's that don't cause any pain. And how you define pain? Is loss of property painful? Is consumption of alcohol painful?

Then even going by your own definition if the act is consensual between the two parties ...then there is no sin? Even if it is a 12 year old boy and an old man?

Alchemist

12-10-2011, 10:03 AM

The root of the problem is YOUR mentality.

When the issue was about Man-Boy love..."Oh! that's nasty! So unislamic of you to talk about that".
Flip it around to Girl-Man marriage ..."OH! Drop these old men in some unmarked grave!" you dropped your tiara.. :glare:

You only seem to get vociferous in a discussion when you can empathize with the subject, due to your egocentrism and superficial understanding of complex social issues. yeah?? how else is it supposed to work if not by empathizing with the subject?? due to my egocentrism and superficial understanding of complex social situations...and where does your understanding of these complex social issues come from? and of what use is this understanding of yours if it doesn't even empathize with the subject?
Because in the later case you can relate to that little girl and think to your self: "Well if it was me at age 13? How horrible. Thank God I am independent!" shut up

The playboy bunny that independently chooses to live in Hue's mansion like an ornament is the guilty one according to Sharia. Not the old man that marries the 13 year old. i have a problem with this version of sharia you have created in your mind. if a society can't apply a law in the favor of one individual as efficiently as it does in the favor of the other then it's a faulty and useless formula to begin with...specially when that very same law is responsible for placing the less advantaged individual in that situation in the first place. if it can allow an old man to marry a young girl for the noblest reasons then why does it fail to protect the very same girl from being burned alive or abused in the hands of the man who is apparently abiding by the rules of sharia by marrying her? i refuse to accept that load of crap under the title of sharia because i think you are bull****ting. Note that in both scenarios the society at large accepts both lifestyles. doesn't mean we should continue accepting it. My intention was to show you that your own ethics are questionable and contradictory since you presume to derive them from sharia but argue against sharia... there is sharia and then the sharia that your type tends to come up with inside their heads for their own convenience.

You don't seem to understand. I don't judge the 18 year old that marries the 80 year old man and the 50 year old man that marries the 13 year old girl. Because the key word here is: Marriage! what about it? does it justify the ill treatment of another human being in the hands of a spouse or a woman marrying a man for his money only? because the magic word of marriage is the common bond between them?does it justify those two wrongs? marriage means nothing if it doesn't exist in the form and sense that the unification of two souls are meant to be joined for.
Marriage is a social institution that serves more than just one's innate carnal needs. Which is why it is a social function, you have a feast and announce the formation of new bonds ...so much so that even in churches the pastors asks "Does anyone here object to this holy union?" So you are the one condemning societies at large....for following their own ethics. Unlike the tradition of some from godless societies who take a long trip to thailand to spend time with prostituted children. who needs the trip to thailand when it's provided to you by your own community and perceived as a great deed towards humanity too...<========Like I said...we have to question our own {assumptions} You seem to follow your feelings on what is right. Follow your gut feelings when it comes to your own personal affairs by all means...but we are having a philosophical discussion and if you are not able to *think* about it with a clear mind...don't waste any more of anyone else's time. In the end you are just humiliating your self when it appears that you are just speaking for the sake of speaking.
my gut feelings tell me that you seem to be under the false impression of being bestowed some sort of a special talent by the God almighty at figuring out what people are feeling and thinking as well as having the right to speak on their behalf too while you are at it...
whether i speak because you think i speak for the sake of speaking or actually having something to speak about, the choice of speaking what i speak is for me to make, not you.
philosophical discussion my foot...

Fallacious generalizations, appeal to ignorance, emotional please...

Now you are just projecting your own faults on to me. "The sharia in your own head"...we've gone from atheism to acid burned women in afghanistan. Domestic violence is a totally separate issue...drama queen.

"marriage means nothing if it doesn't exist in the form and sense that the unification of two souls are meant to be joined for." What does that even mean?

IamDZJ

12-10-2011, 01:28 PM

it means you cant join two incompatible individuals together and then do whatever you want to do to them and then justify it by using the word marriage.
i am not the one who brought up the topic of child brides in to the question. it was you.
http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/atheism-leads-pedophilia-24429/index12.html

if you are justifying this because you feel obliged to defending the prophet marrying aysha pbuh but lack the brain cells or guts to say so then i would like to remind you that every random 60 year old in afghanistan is not and can not stand up to the measures of the prophet mohammad salalah. it's simple as that. okay?

Alchemist

12-10-2011, 04:46 PM

it means you cant join two incompatible individuals together and then do whatever you want to do to them and then justify it by using the word marriage.
i am not the one who brought up the topic of child brides in to the question. it was you.
http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/atheism-leads-pedophilia-24429/index12.html

I just mentioned how sentimental you get about small girls marrying older men to show your hypocrisy toward's unknowns' article which discusses the rational of atheists for paedophilia, specifically boys.

The more you argue ...the more irrational and idiotic you get. And then you question how I break down social issues?

Who are you to say that compatibility is defined by age?
A male and a female are biologically compatible. If they are from the same community, then their mentalities are the same. This issue of "compatibility" is only your own western mind's conception of what marriage is. Compatibility is just an excuse in the west for boys and girls to go on multiple dates with multiple people.

The idiocy is in your assumption that I am that one marries people and then I toy with their lives...Who do you think I am? Mogambo? Take it easy on the hyperboles...

iif you are justifying this because you feel obliged to defending the prophet marrying aysha pbuh but lack the brain cells or guts to say so then i would like to remind you that every random 60 year old in afghanistan is not and can not stand up to the measures of the prophet mohammad salalah. it's simple as that. okay?

No true Scotsman fallacy.
You are implying that every old man that marries a younger girl is an evil bad man....except the messengers of Allah. That doesn't even make sense.

You seem to be suffering from cognitive dissonance. Deal with it your self. And stop arguing with me just to save face.

IamDZJ

12-10-2011, 05:42 PM

you are such an idiot. how many times did i tell you that the reason i was not happy with unknown's article was because i don't think it affects afghan/pashtuns on as much of a bigger scale as some other subjects do? domestic violence neglecting women's right and child abuse being one of them. nothing about pedophilia against boys was mentioned to me so i have not overlooked it. okay?
and m i not supposed to get upset and emotional about it?? i don't know about you but i am a human being and part of my reaction to injustice results in to me feeling bad for the victims and anger towards the oppressors. and i don't understand how me feeling bad for them is me being dramatic about my feelings and you being overwhelmed by that not you being out of control about your emotions.
i already told you that a preteen's mentality does not match that of a man 5 times her age. biological compatibility is not enough. so the fact that they list in the same country and are from the same culture, it's okay for her husband to expect her to look after her children, his family and him at the same time?? it's okay for her childhood to be taken away from her and all those responsibilities and burdens dumped on her? have you not ever in your life seen a 13 year old?? or a 50 year old? because the concept of marriage in our country is limited to being fed and having children and getting the crap beaten out of you for making a mistake or not putting enough salt in the food, it's okay for it to continue being that way?

why don't you wait till you are 60 and then marry a 13 year old and give me the example of a perfect marriage between a 13 and a 60 year old in afghanistan? surely, that will convince me since i have not seen any of that happening so far.

you are an idiot and you know it well. stop fooling yourself by looking around for excuses.

LyariTown

12-10-2011, 05:47 PM

i can see how a lack of belief leads to all kinds of deviation as there are no morals; only fear of man.

the problem is in many cases these people are actually past offenders even before they were religious, when they become religious and start working for mosques,churches etc... unfortunately they dont change their sick habits

I think religious places should have a strict policy of hiring regarding this issue, this is a serious issue

i can see how a lack of belief leads to all kinds of deviation as there are no morals; only fear of man.

It is not only a lack of belief that can cause this, but also the faiths that are complete fabrications that can lead to this. Hence, atheists, Hindus, Jews, and Christians are all in the same camp when it comes to difficulty in distinguishing right from wrong.

In Christianity for example, they use texts from Deutronomy to support and justify rape. They have changed their religious book and their religion to such an extent that it can no more be considered a religion.

Hinduism, in my opinion, is a faith that feeds on human nature whereas it allows all social vices and states that this is nature so let it be.

Judaism is less to an extent than the previous two, but still since the Jews have changed their book too, they also are unable to distinguish between right and wrong.

However, atheists are constantly having discussions and debates about what is right and wrong, and rarely ever distinguish between the two. They say that such a decision into deciding what is right and wrong is entirely subjective and therefore can be different for different people.

Years ago homosexuality was wrong, and today they say it is ok. Next, they will say child pornography is ok. Secular and atheistic societies are one of the most immoral ones where pretty much anything goes.

The US and other European countries have one of the biggest child porn industries.

Alchemist

12-11-2011, 03:08 AM

you are such an idiot. how many times did i tell you that the reason i was not happy with unknown's article was because i don't think it affects afghan/pashtuns on as much of a bigger scale as some other subjects do? domestic violence neglecting women's right and child abuse being one of them. nothing about pedophilia against boys was mentioned to me so i have not overlooked it. okay?
and m i not supposed to get upset and emotional about it?? i don't know about you but i am a human being and part of my reaction to injustice results in to me feeling bad for the victims and anger towards the oppressors. and i don't understand how me feeling bad for them is me being dramatic about my feelings and you being overwhelmed by that not you being out of control about your emotions.
i already told you that a preteen's mentality does not match that of a man 5 times her age. biological compatibility is not enough. so the fact that they list in the same country and are from the same culture, it's okay for her husband to expect her to look after her children, his family and him at the same time?? it's okay for her childhood to be taken away from her and all those responsibilities and burdens dumped on her? have you not ever in your life seen a 13 year old?? or a 50 year old? because the concept of marriage in our country is limited to being fed and having children and getting the crap beaten out of you for making a mistake or not putting enough salt in the food, it's okay for it to continue being that way?

why don't you wait till you are 60 and then marry a 13 year old and give me the example of a perfect marriage between a 13 and a 60 year old in afghanistan? surely, that will convince me since i have not seen any of that happening so far.

you are an idiot and you know it well. stop fooling yourself by looking around for excuses.

Domestic violence happens everywhere in the world. It is not a problem specific to Afghanistan.
Now if you were to do a survey and study the data and compare Afghanistan to other third world countries, like liberia or even Mexico, Afghanistan MAY fair better simply owing to its cultural values, and not economical circumstances....this statement would be open to debate. You can make a separate thread and we could probably investigate this. Although I have met girls from wealthy family that have been sexually abused by their own father in the west...so who knows?

You make it sound like you are already an expert on the issue but you don't have the data to back up any of your supposition.

Unlike you, I don't hold an opinion on an issue unless I know the facts. I am open minded enough to reconsider my position here but so far your arguments have been whimsical, to say the least. A thirTEEN year old is a teenager and not a "preteen". In most societies adulthood begins with puberty. In western society you become an adult when you are old enough to buy liquor...because it is assumed you can drink more responsibly then?

This is all related -- it seems that your concept of marriage goes beyound the biological functions of mother/father as nurturer/provider....its about "love"? These are the romantic fancies that Hollywood/Bollywood profits a great deal from. This type of attitude validates the claims of such organizations as NAMBLA. That if "erotic love" is the pivotal purpose of marriages, then anyone who loves can pair-bond...be they of the same sexes. Since homosexuality in the western world is celebrated as a way of life, the claim for paedophiles doesn't lay far.

Celine dion met her husband when she was 12 years old ...he was 38 years old.

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-11-2011, 04:27 AM

Domestic violence happens everywhere in the world. It is not a problem specific to Afghanistan.
Now if you were to do a survey and study the data and compare Afghanistan to other third world countries, like liberia or even Mexico, Afghanistan MAY fair better simply owing to its cultural values, and not economical circumstances....this statement would be open to debate. You can make a separate thread and we could probably investigate this. Although I have met girls from wealthy family that have been sexually abused by their own father in the west...so who knows?

You make it sound like you are already an expert on the issue but you don't have the data to back up any of your supposition.

Unlike you, I don't hold an opinion on an issue unless I know the facts. I am open minded enough to reconsider my position here but so far your arguments have been whimsical, to say the least. A thirTEEN year old is a teenager and not a "preteen". In most societies adulthood begins with puberty. In western society you become an adult when you are old enough to buy liquor...because it is assumed you can drink more responsibly then?

This is all related -- it seems that your concept of marriage goes beyound the biological functions of mother/father as nurturer/provider....its about "love"? These are the romantic fancies that Hollywood/Bollywood profits a great deal from. This type of attitude validates the claims of such organizations as NAMBLA. That if "erotic love" is the pivotal purpose of marriages, then anyone who loves can pair-bond...be they of the same sexes. Since homosexuality in the western world is celebrated as a way of life, the claim for paedophiles doesn't lay far.

Celine dion met her husband when she was 12 years old ...he was 38 years old.

if ever proof is needed why afghans are useless people, then surely this thread is exhibit fukin a

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-11-2011, 04:28 AM

lol @ a pashtun talking about child rape

nicca shut ya god damn mouth and clean your community

unknownprince

12-11-2011, 04:43 AM

These are mere videos showing a trend of child abuse within the aforementioned groups. Instead of getting emotional, it would be sensible to have a civil discussion about why this trend exists . These problems exist everywhere even with Muslims, but the fact is is that the US and the West are the leaders in child abuse with the largest child porn industry

Now it would be best for you to discuss the topic at hand instead of changing it. Feel free to open up a thread to discuss other topics you are alluding to

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-11-2011, 04:52 AM

These are mere videos showing a trend of child abuse within the aforementioned groups. Instead of getting emotional, it would be sensible to have a civil discussion about why this trend exists . These problems exist everywhere even with Muslims, but the fact is is that the US and the West are the leaders in child abuse with the largest child porn industry

Now it would be best for you to discuss the topic at hand instead of changing it. Feel free to open up a thread to discuss other topics you are alluding to

youre not gonna see me making posts and threads highlighting how useless somalia is. you know why? because we afghans are useless

similiarly a culture that has pedophilia in it (not isolated, its an established practise) should not be pointing fingers at any one

unknownprince

12-11-2011, 05:01 AM

Those are unqualified statements. Crimes in Afghsnistan are being punished. It is also the reason there is a rise in religiosity ( I know you know what that means.

However, the point of this is to discuss the trend that has existed within the aforementioned groups. What is the issue with the lax nature of these faiths and athiesm that seem to permit such acts?

How come sexual abuse of children is so high with priests ? Why does the US have the largest child porn industry? What is different about the US and West that such is condoned?

Keep in mind the topic of the thread and relevancy. No need to change the topic

Afghanistan2010

12-11-2011, 05:05 AM

lol @ a pashtun talking about child rape

nicca shut ya god damn mouth and clean your community

AT FORUM ADMIN

this is an open insulting to the pashtun community how can one tolerate this.

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-11-2011, 05:06 AM

Those are unqualified statements. Crimes in Afghsnistan are being punished. It is also the reason there is a rise in religiosity ( I know you know what that means.

However, the point of this is to discuss the trend that has existed within the aforementioned groups. What is the issue with the lax nature of these faiths and athiesm that seem to permit such acts?

How come sexual abuse of children is so high with priests ? Why does the US have the largest child porn industry? What is different about the US and West that such is condoned?

Keep in mind the topic of the thread and relevancy. No need to change the topic

What is the issue with the lax nature of Islam that seem to permit such acts?

do u understand what generalization means?

unknownprince

12-11-2011, 05:10 AM

You can discuss that in a thread that you yourself can open.

I want to see discussion here on this topic

Islam prohibits and punishes crime ruthlessly

The instructions are very clear in this regard

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-11-2011, 05:11 AM

AT FORUM ADMIN

this is an open insulting to the pashtun community how can one tolerate this.

like the shrieking cries of a Pashtun child being sexually assaulted, your pleas to the admin will be ignored

the Amir may be a non believing jack daniels drinking womanizer, but on every central issue, he knows and understands his people well

i have spent 2 months of my 28 yrs in afghanistan but i know my people

sexual abuse of children is a serious problem in our community. we need to highlight this problem and eradicate it

yet we have pakhtuns who have the nerve to make threads about pedophilia in other countries and attach a religious connotation to it

do u not understand that as a pakhtun youre the last person to be talkin about this, and that attaching religious connotations to this act is the LAST thing u want to be doing?

Michin Khel

12-11-2011, 05:13 AM

AT FORUM ADMIN

this is an open insulting to the pashtun community how can one tolerate this.

Why? Amir is right, pedestry exists in pashtun society. there are even some pashtun areas where beresh boys need burqa more than girls to avoid sexual harassement. You live in west , how can you know about this aspect of pashtun society

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-11-2011, 05:14 AM

You can discuss that in a thread that you yourself can open.

I want to see discussion here on this topic

Islam prohibits and punishes crime ruthlessly

The instructions are very clear in this regard

well christianity doesnt support child molestation and athiest secular countries have laws against it

despite all this, it occurs in all countries and societies

but ure interested in scoring cheap points on other faiths

this makes u seem insecure. this may lead one to believe muslims are insecure

the Amir is not a Muslim but since his traditions are Islamic and his people and family are Islamic he supports Islam and the Islamic community and wishes it the best and hopes to see it succeed

hence u should listen to my words, it is for the best. never never doubt the Amir

Afghanistan2010

12-11-2011, 05:22 AM

like the shrieking cries of a Pashtun child being sexually assaulted, your pleas to the admin will be ignored

the Amir may be a non believing jack daniels drinking Manizer, but on every central issue, he knows and understands his people well

i have spent 2 months of my 28 yrs in afghanistan but i know my people

sexual abuse of children is a serious problem in our community. we need to highlight this problem and eradicate it

yet we have pakhtuns who have the nerve to make threads about pedophilia in other countries and attach a religious connotation to it

do u not understand that as a pakhtun youre the last person to be talkin about this, and that attaching religious connotations to this act is the LAST thing u want to be doing?

My young friends,there maybe a problem in your family or the family of your tribe,but not ALL PASHTUN ARE LIKE THAT,we are muslims and we opposse such doings,and only people like you who stops others from talking about this problem make it a common thing among pashtuns.

this means for me you two are supporters of bachabazi (which is common among the northern provinces (non pashtuns).And that brings me to the conclusion that you both are non pashtuns and enemies of pashtuns.

It is known in Peshwar child abuse but to all world :

I DO NOT CONSIDER MAJORITY OF PESHAWRI AS PASHTUNS OR EVEN CLOSE TO PASHTUN.

AND I DO NOT CONSIDER ANYONE WHO IS NONMUSLIM OR SHIA AS PASHTUN.

Afghanistan2010

12-11-2011, 05:25 AM

well christianity doesnt support child molestation and athiest secular countries have laws against it

despite all this, it occurs in all countries and societies

but ure interested in scoring cheap points on other faiths

this makes u seem insecure. this may lead one to believe muslims are insecure

the Amir is not a Muslim but since his traditions are Islamic and his people and family are Islamic he supports Islam and the Islamic community and wishes it the best and hopes to see it succeed

hence u should listen to my words, it is for the best. never never doubt the Amir

I live in one such state :

if you download illegal things ( games , music,etc) you will get five years prison.

if you rape a child or other abuse ....up to 2 years prison and that is the highest.

:running: good laws ,that will bring protection to the children.

R3SISTANC3

12-11-2011, 05:52 AM

While I disagree with the assertion that atheism leads to pedophilia, I find it very interesting that a follower of Mohammad would actually have a problem with that.... It seems that pedophilia is something that your religion should take fairly lightly, given it's history in your religion.

I disagree with the assertion of the title of this topic too, however I also disagree with your assertion that somehow Islam condones pedophilia and your reference to Prophet Mohammad SAW could only mean that he either practiced it or supported it. You need to back it up with evidence. If you are going to state his marriage to Aisha RA, I'd suggest research the profile of a Pedophile before commenting on the subject.

The followers of Mohammad SAW will have a problem with any abnormal, sexual obsession or perversion, whether that be pedophilia, necrophilia or homosexuality. Any sexual activity outside of the natural bounds and functions of procreation is considered problematic (haram) according to Islamic teachings.

unknownprince

12-11-2011, 05:54 AM

well christianity doesnt support child molestation and athiest secular countries have laws against it

despite all this, it occurs in all countries and societies

but ure interested in scoring cheap points on other faiths

this makes u seem insecure. this may lead one to believe muslims are insecure

the Amir is not a Muslim but since his traditions are Islamic and his people and family are Islamic he supports Islam and the Islamic community and wishes it the best and hopes to see it succeed

hence u should listen to my words, it is for the best. never never doubt the Amir

There is high incidence of Christian priests involved in child rape. This is internationally and infamously well known information. Christianity has been changed multiple times and is in fact a paganistic faith. Atheist societies appear to be terming pedophilia as a mental sickness to be treated, not as a crime. http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/pedophilia.htm This is one of the major reasons it is so widespread throughout the US and the West. Child porn is increasingly seen as art. Dakota Fanning was made to star in a sex scene despite her young age, and this was a Hollywood movie. This is an example of child porn marketed to the Hollywood audience, It appears that athiest secular societies encourage and condone this. Is Dakota Fanning in kiddie porn? - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2007/01/is_dakota_fanning_in_kiddie_porn.html)

So the facts speak more than the thoughts

unknownprince

12-11-2011, 05:58 AM

why has my title been changed?

Insaaf_انصاف

12-11-2011, 06:28 AM

why has my title been changed?

Because you're a troll, and you just wanted to trolling every time

Tjanaparh

12-11-2011, 06:48 AM

That is a pretty flimsy definition...

what about the punishment that society deals for sin's that don't cause any pain. And how you define pain? Is loss of property painful? Is consumption of alcohol painful?

Then even going by your own definition if the act is consensual between the two parties ...then there is no sin? Even if it is a 12 year old boy and an old man?

I do not know what means flimsy.
Pain is what brings the soul out of its natural state of peace!
About the rest of questions shouldn't be difficult to answer.
Lust brings the soul out of its peacefull state, so if there is consense or not it does not change so much.
Alcohol consumtion does same bring the soul out of peace....

graveyardofempires

12-11-2011, 08:55 AM

why has my title been changed?
because they hate the truth and love them lies.

or

beacuse they hate muslims and love atheists

or

i dont know

Insaaf_انصاف

12-11-2011, 09:22 AM

because they hate the truth and love them lies.

or

beacuse they hate muslims and love atheists

or

i dont know

" They " is the moderators who change the title

And I don't think that they hate muslims and love atheists

They just hate trolls like you and unknownprince .

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 10:14 AM

Domestic violence happens everywhere in the world. It is not a problem specific to Afghanistan.
Now if you were to do a survey and study the data and compare Afghanistan to other third world countries, like liberia or even Mexico, Afghanistan MAY fair better simply owing to its cultural values, and not economical circumstances....this statement would be open to debate. You can make a separate thread and we could probably investigate this. Although I have met girls from wealthy family that have been sexually abused by their own father in the west...so who knows?

You make it sound like you are already an expert on the issue but you don't have the data to back up any of your supposition.

Unlike you, I don't hold an opinion on an issue unless I know the facts. I am open minded enough to reconsider my position here but so far your arguments have been whimsical, to say the least. A thirTEEN year old is a teenager and not a "preteen". In most societies adulthood begins with puberty. In western society you become an adult when you are old enough to buy liquor...because it is assumed you can drink more responsibly then?

This is all related -- it seems that your concept of marriage goes beyound the biological functions of mother/father as nurturer/provider....its about "love"? These are the romantic fancies that Hollywood/Bollywood profits a great deal from. This type of attitude validates the claims of such organizations as NAMBLA. That if "erotic love" is the pivotal purpose of marriages, then anyone who loves can pair-bond...be they of the same sexes. Since homosexuality in the western world is celebrated as a way of life, the claim for paedophiles doesn't lay far.

Celine dion met her husband when she was 12 years old ...he was 38 years old.

why are you using celine dion who probably became an adult after she got her permit to buy liquor as an example to prove your point? wealthy people raping their own children in the west?? your efforts have made it clear that people in the west are **** ups...so if they are **** ups then why are you using them as an example to justify what is happening in our holy land? on one hand you are arguing against them and then on the other hand you are telling me that just because they do this and that, it's okay for afghans to do the same??

the data doesn't matter. if three women in one village were burned alive, it does not mean the one burned in the other village should not be provided with any justice.
i don't want my 13 year old married to a 60 year old man under any circumstances and i don't want the same happening to anyone else's child for similar reasons and don't tell me every one has the right to do whatever they wish to do with their children because that would justify people raping and selling their daughters to become sex slaves on a very similar scale to those who wed off their daughters in a marriage which provides them no rights and are treated no better than sex slaves.
liquor is not the only thing you can get once you become of a legal age in the west. you can't buy a home before that, you can't start your own business...you can't drive...and WHY DO YOU CONSTANTLY BRING THE WEST IN IT? i never claimed to wanting a society similar to the west, i want a better one.
my concept of a marriage goes beyond the ability to produce human life. okay? maybe if we had married couples who were capable of having meaningful conversations and debating with each other about the future of their children, they would raise proper children who would be of some use to the society. our country wouldn't be in the mess that it is now. no body would be beating their wives, no body would run away on their husbands, no body would have their noses chopped off of them for having done that and nobody would be pouring acid on the face of someone who rejected him. yeah, and there would be plenty of love.

the rest of societies ( including afghanistan) are not immune to pedophilia or homosexuality.

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 10:20 AM

instead of worrying about our own people and finding solutions for our own problems, we have been constantly fixating over the west all our lives. **** them, worry about yourself.

Manzareh

12-11-2011, 12:03 PM

Hypocrisy at its peak

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 12:14 PM

shut your face

Afghanistan2010

12-11-2011, 12:35 PM

shut your face

be an example and do it first yourself.

what did immanuel kant said : Behave such that your doing can be a maxim.

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 12:42 PM

every doing is a maxim. so is mine...smartypants :glare:

smartypants===smartass

Afghanistan2010

12-11-2011, 12:50 PM

every doing is a maxim. so is mine...smartypants :glare:

smartypants===smartass

maxim for women 50+ ?

or women with less education and only taught to insult ?

notSOsmartpants.

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 12:55 PM

maxim for women 50+ ?

or women with less education and only taught to insult ?

notSOsmartpants.

a woman of a certain age, a certain thought and a certain desire for certain insults.

either stick to the subject to get lost.

Alchemist

12-11-2011, 01:05 PM

Zohra, you don't make sense.
You keep saying that we should not focus on western society. But western society focuses on Afghanistan constantly. They judge our culture and our way of life and they are constantly bombarding us with their values.

I thought this was obvious but now I am starting to realize that the majority of you appear to be totally blind to the real reason why Afghanistan is being targeted by all the Atheistic/Secular Nations of the world. Simply put, today's wars are a war of values. It was on the pretext of saving Afghan women from brutalities that the US and her allies mobilized their forces. The hype in the media was over burqas and every time there is a discussion its on "women's rights"...which is why the current Afghan parliament has to have 25% women.
The events of 9/11 were totally unrelated to Afghans and Afghanistan. There was no proof of any global ambitions from Afghanistan yet only a month after the incident Afghanistan was the first to be attacked. If it really was about Osama bin Laden, then Pakistan would have been wiped off the map by now for harbouring him only a mile away from their military bases...in a city filled with their top military brass!

Even though I tell the atheist pashtuns on this forum that if they were to declare their atheism in Afghanistan they would be hung...in reality they wouldn't be. Legally they should be hung for apostatizing but because America dictates the rules, it is their values that trump the discussions ...so most Afghans that leave Islam get asylum in secular countries because the quirky constitution of Afghanistan cannot merge secular values with Sharia. They contradict each other. The plan for the globalist is to unify the all the nations ..and in order to that they must make all values equal. Which is why a Muslim today is a target of severe criticism from every direction...and you are on their side. Because counter criticism of the culture that wants to subjugate and dominate our culture is forbidden by you. Even though you say that you want something better than the west and what is present in Afghanistan...the obvious fact of the matter is that the west is fairing off better than Afghanistan..so in order to surpass the west, Afghans must adopt the ways of the west? Isn't that the argument made by every atheist here? - "Abandon Islam and Sharia..stop following arabs...be secularists...let your women be independent...be individuals and pursue happiness..."
The title of the thread had it right Atheism LEADS to paedophilia...and Secularism LEADS to Atheism.

Unknown prince,
There were too other threads deleted - 300 impregnantd by mullah and some other thread by 'thegood' that was in retaliation to this thread. I suppose the moderators deleted those threads and to balance off the scales change the title of your thread. Atheists are the minority and an in a just society the majority protects the minority ...even if the minority spread harm. But I don't suppose those democratic values...in Athens Socrates was put to death for corrupting the youth by introducing a new god...Daemon.

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 02:17 PM

Zohra, you don't make sense.
You keep saying that we should not focus on western society. But western society focuses on Afghanistan constantly. They judge our culture and our way of life and they are constantly bombarding us with their values.

I thought this was obvious but now I am starting to realize that the majority of you appear to be totally blind to the real reason why Afghanistan is being targeted by all the Atheistic/Secular Nations of the world. Simply put, today's wars are a war of values. It was on the pretext of saving Afghan women from brutalities that the US and her allies mobilized their forces. The hype in the media was over burqas and every time there is a discussion its on "women's rights"...which is why the current Afghan parliament has to have 25% women.
The events of 9/11 were totally unrelated to Afghans and Afghanistan. There was no proof of any global ambitions from Afghanistan yet only a month after the incident Afghanistan was the first to be attacked. If it really was about Osama bin Laden, then Pakistan would have been wiped off the map by now for harbouring him only a mile away from their military bases...in a city filled with their top military brass!

the western society doesn't focus on afghanistan because it's concerned about afghans or the women in afghanistan. (if anything, it's the afghan men who are in desperate need of freedom from mental oppression...) you know that very well as i do. the western society gets something out of putting so much focus on us afghans but what to we get from focusing and judging their values or culture? is that our way of getting even with them?? does it help fix our situation? if our society wasn't a dysfunctional one, what would they be using as an excuse to come to our country, kill our people, rape our women, demand for their permanent bases to be set and still not be perceived as a joke?
Even though I tell the atheist pashtuns on this forum that if they were to declare their atheism in Afghanistan they would be hung...in reality they wouldn't be. that is not our issue. if someone says they don't believe in God, they are not going to automatically start believing in him just because they are about to get hanged by another human being who in no way obvious to him (the atheist) has anything better over him (the atheist). i know the sharia says they should be hanged and what not but if the sharia was applied properly, there wouldn't be any need for individuals to declare themselves as atheists in the first place. instead of searching for appropriate punishments, we ought to look for appropriate solutions... Legally they should be hung for apostatizing but because America dictates the rules, it is their values that trump the discussions ...so most Afghans that leave Islam get asylum in secular countries because the quirky constitution of Afghanistan cannot merge secular values with Sharia. They contradict each other. The plan for the globalist is to unify the all the nations ..and in order to that they must make all values equal. Which is why a Muslim today is a target of severe criticism from every direction...and you are on their side. Because counter criticism of the culture that wants to subjugate and dominate our culture is forbidden by you. Even though you say that you want something better than the west and what is present in Afghanistan...the obvious fact of the matter is that the west is fairing off better than Afghanistan..so in order to surpass the west, Afghans must adopt the ways of the west? Isn't that the argument made by every atheist here? why are you using an atheist's argument to prove yourself right?? "Abandon Islam and Sharia..stop following arabs...be secularists...let your women be independent...be individuals and pursue happiness..."i don't know, i don't pay any attention to them since they don't concern/interest me.
The title of the thread had it right Atheism LEADS to paedophilia...and Secularism LEADS to Atheism.
i don't think atheism is an obstacle that the muslims are facing today or at least not the ones in afghanistan. how many afghans or muslims do we have in afghanistan who hide behind that title and do everything that is entirely against even a 1/4th of what islam stand for? how often are they confronted?
when was the last time someone was hanged for misusing the title of islam?

you have muslim afghans who are killing, raping and murdering each other with no one stopping them and on top of that you are claiming that sharia can not be implemented properly because secularism comes in the way? why does it come in the way?? if a system does not provide the people justice, then it's pretty obvious that they would run up to the closest solution promised to them. no?
you can't expect every second person in a so called muslim population to be devout God fearing muslims if the sharia simply fails to provide them justice.

the americans didn't just land their planes in the middle of a desert and start taking over our country. someone allowed for that to happen. why? because they were promised hope. we ought to be ashamed of ourselves for letting it get to that point first and then point our fingers at others.

my name is not 'zohra'.

Alchemist

12-11-2011, 06:46 PM

Zohra is a nicer name ...but whatever you are called...

You still lack rational.

I ll try simplifying this for you child:

Some pashtuns are atheists. True
Article is about Atheists. True
Therefore Article relates to Pashtuns. True

I have presented my premise for the support of each conclusions in previous posts.
Please provide valid arguments with supportable evidence...or just stop trolling and trying to save face.

randolph85

12-11-2011, 07:01 PM

pedophilia is subjective to cultures.

most of the the world came from pedo relationships.

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 07:21 PM

Zohra is a nicer name ...but whatever you are called...

You still lack rational.

I ll try simplifying this for you child:

Some pashtuns are atheists. True
Article is about Atheists. True
Therefore Article relates to Pashtuns. True

Your claims:
Article is unrelated to Pashtuns. False it's not false. it's just as related to pashtuns as your article on kate middleton'e friends special party was.
Afghanistan is a dysfunctional Country. False it has become the most dysfunctional civilization i have come across thanks to people like you.
Muslim Afghans rape and murder each other, therefore Sharia is a failure. False. crimes are committed and not an ounce of the criminals have had to worry about the consequences. i never said sharia was a failure, i said it's not applied with as much honesty as it should have been.
Secularism is a better solution than Sharia. i did not say that. Secularism provides Justice. False. if it did provide justice, afghanistan wouldn't be in the same mess today that it was in 10 years ago.

my objection to this article was simple. why is it that whenever our own faults are brought up in front of us, we run towards the stage and give out a long list of the wrong doings of the non muslims instead of providing answers for our own mistakes?? why should we waste our time over kate middleton'e friend's sex life or that of some immoral atheist somewhere out in the world rather than fixing our own issues??
you, unknown and some other people in here are simply playing a game with the west and the "kafirs". they hand pick our weaknesses and the faults of our people and use it against us, you do the same to them. they have made it to the point where they are taking over our country and you think throwing back insults at them by using the sex life of an atheist out there somewhere is the ultimate solution to that problem.
and then there are some of us here in the middle who are really really really fed up with both of you are very frustrated, not knowing what to do to get rid of either one of you. and because we are not with you, we are simply against you and are kafirs who are just ecstatic about the idea of a secularist afghanistan. yeah, **** off.

I have presented my premise for the support of each conclusions in previous posts.
Please provide valid arguments with supportable evidence...or just stop trolling and trying to save face. who do you suppose i am trying to save my face for in here?? i bought myself the freedom of not ever having to worry about my "face" in front of either one of you fine people in here when i said [---EDITED---] to every single one of you the very first time.

and while we are at it, what has your rationality given to anyone? isn't it just as useless as my "irrationality"?

Alchemist

12-11-2011, 07:53 PM

"Yeah...[---EDITED---]" is a real show of your own civility and ability to have a meaningful dialogue.

If Afghanistan is a dysfunctional country, then which country isn't?
Where is this "middle" where are you are staying at?

I don't see why you are expressing outrage at the mention of atheist paedophilia and the elite of london having sex orgies, since these are the very same people perpetuating the false propaganda that has you thinking that we are the dysfunctional one.

Then again, you are the one who callously uses the word [---EDITED---] all the time and I am the shameless one? Do you know what that word even means?

Why don't you learn some manners and stop acting like some feral emo child.

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 08:21 PM

"Yeah...[---EDITED---]" is a real show of your own civility and ability to have a meaningful dialogue.

If Afghanistan is a dysfunctional country, then which country isn't?
Where is this "middle" where are you are staying at?

I don't see why you are expressing outrage at the mention of atheist paedophilia and the elite of london having sex orgies, since these are the very same people perpetuating the false propaganda that has you thinking that we are the dysfunctional one.

Then again, you are the one who callously uses the word [---EDITED---] all the time and I am the shameless one? Do you know what that word even means?

that phrase is an expression of extreme contempt. if you weren't so busy frying your brain with all the trash of keeping up with orgies and pedophiles and their dirty business, your first explanation for the phrase would have been the one i intended for, not the dirty one that popped up in your head.
don't change the subject.
once again, i don't care if the country where i live in is dysfunctional. i would like for the country to which i belong to to stop being dysfunctional so i can return to it as soon as possible.
Why don't you learn some manners and stop acting like some feral emo child. i don't feel like it. why don't you stop lying? :glare:

Alchemist

12-11-2011, 08:31 PM

Your country will remain dysfunctional as long as it is occupied and influenced by the rest of the dysfunctional world.

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 08:43 PM

i blame you. thanks to your contribution towards that cause.

JAMALUDEEN

12-11-2011, 10:00 PM

Alchemist is spot on and the DaZahrooJAM is wrong.

Why do you even think so low of your people DaZahrooJaam? Isn't this how the west projects us? Backward terrorists? Is this your way of trying to fit in .. in whatever country you are living in right now? Isn't this a sign of being mentally colonised?

You want to focus on the issues in Afghanistan, while ignoring ..what caused the problem in the first place...

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 10:24 PM

i am a practical person jamaludeen. i don't feel guilty for pointing out faults in my own people and no i don't want to fit in anywhere. do you turn a blind eye on the faults of your own people because you are afraid you would be outcasted and referred to as a traitor if you spoke otherwise or do you seriously not see it as it is?

JAMALUDEEN

12-11-2011, 10:26 PM

i am a practical person jamaludeen. i don't feel guilty for pointing out faults in my own people and no i don't want to fit in anywhere. do you turn a blind eye on the faults of your own people because you are afraid you would be outcasted and referred to as a traitor if you spoke otherwise or do you seriously not see it as it is?

Do you think...Afghans are terrorists..backward..psychos?

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 10:39 PM

Do you think...Afghans are terrorists..backward..psychos?
:glare:

why would i think that? i think afghans are being misused/mislead and that they are doing nothing to prevent or stop it because they are overly emotional whimps. ten years of a lousy tag war. where is the glory? the venom of cobra, teeth of tiger and vengeance of a pukhtun??

once again, just because i am not wasting everyone's time by focusing on the west and pulling out fault's in it's culture instead of finding a solutions for my own issues, it's assumed that i think my people are terrorists. ::rolleyes::
stop acting like middle aged overly emotional 7 months pregnant women and start using your brains for a change.

o, and don't answer a question with another question.

JAMALUDEEN

12-11-2011, 11:20 PM

:glare:
why would i think that? i think afghans are being misused/mislead and that they are doing nothing to prevent or stop it because they are overly emotional whimps. ten years of a lousy tag war. where is the glory? the venom of cobra, teeth of tiger and vengeance of a pukhtun??

once again, just because i am not wasting everyone's time by focusing on the west and pulling out fault's in it's culture instead of finding a solutions for my own issues, it's assumed that i think my people are terrorists. ::rolleyes::
stop acting like middle aged overly emotional 7 months pregnant women and start using your brains for a change.

You are looking to fix the afghan social problems through foreign western solutions. This is a sign of being mentally colonised. The atheist who brought communism to afghanistan thought the same..

If Afghanistan was never invaded, and you were brought up and raised in the Afghan way of lif..in Afghanistan, you wouldn't consider many of the things you discussed with alchemist as wrong. The reason, you even speak of it and consider it over what shariah teaches is a clear sign of being mentally colonised.

I'm not acting like anything, and it is actually you..who has been acting like a middle aged overly emotional 7 months pregnant women..and you have admitted to this in one of the posts to alchemist...

IamDZJ

12-11-2011, 11:48 PM

You are looking to fix the afghan social problems through foreign western solutions. This is a sign of being mentally colonised. by asking you to use your head? i am sorry, i didn't know you were boycotting that idea for being a westernized way of finding solutions for a problem. or did you wed off a 13 year old daughter to some 60 year old who is keeping her happy and all that?? i don't see how else i implied western solutions to afghan problems. The atheist who brought communism to afghanistan thought the same..you would know all about it. the same way you know about pedophiles, pornography and bestiality...i don't because it doesn't concern me.

If Afghanistan was never invaded, and you were brought up and raised in the Afghan way of lif..in Afghanistan, you wouldn't consider many of the things you discussed with alchemist as wrong. yeah and if you and alchemist were living in afghanistan, by now you would both be grandpas. heck, for all i know, you probably are.The reason, you even speak of it and consider it over what shariah teaches is a clear sign of being mentally colonised. yeah and you were brainwashed by osama. you don't see me supporting extra marital affairs or promoting vodka but i do see your buddy alchemist there justifying women getting burned alive and children sold off in to meaningless marriages because it's done in the presence of a mullah who recites a couple of verses of quraan he probably never bothered to learn the meanings for. who is mentally colonized now? what sharia are you talking about? go back 10 pages forward and read what i said about the sharia in afghanistan, then come back and wave your fist in front of me.
I'm not acting like anything, and it is actually you..who has been acting like a middle aged overly emotional 7 months pregnant women..and you have admitted to this in one of the posts to alchemist...no i did not.

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-12-2011, 12:31 AM

those who constantly excuse ones own failings on others are mentally inferior and insecure people

so what the west colonized you, and manipulated and interfered in your country? had your country been strong, this never would have happened

offer solutions, dont cry about the problem.

if a stronger entity oppresses you, you have to analyze what are your weak points that allow the oppression and what are the oppressors strengths that has over u

btw an islamic sharia utopia is just as much of a pie in the sky dream as communisms conception of a perfect society. just as how commies swear that we cant judge it as a system because no true commie govt ever existed, advocates of sharia say the same. but they ignore the reality, that no true perfect commie/sharia system has ever existed because it is in capable of existing

what the prophet muhamad was able to accomplish amongst the arabs of the arabian peninsula 1300 yrs ago will never be replicated, deal with it

faye

12-12-2011, 01:00 AM

so, do we have any statistics of child sexual abuse by atheists? we can't just go around generalising.

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 01:25 AM

by asking you to use your head? i am sorry, i didn't know you were boycotting that idea for being a westernized way of finding solutions for a problem. or did you wed off a 13 year old daughter to some 60 year old who is keeping her happy and all that?? i don't see how else i implied western solutions to afghan problems.

These are issues that must be solved internally through shariah. While, you are free to voice your opinion, it is another story whether these resolutions will be welcomed in Afghanistan by the people, especially when they are dramatised with western gibberish.

you would know all about it. the same way you know about pedophiles, pornography and bestiality...i don't because it doesn't concern me.

These are very important and real issues. You want to avoid them, i do not. Why is it that parents tell their kids, not to speak to strangers..or not to take candy off a stranger? Are you not going to educate your kids on these serious issues and the harms..of it..

Or will you just let them fall into the traps of a pedophile...

think.....

alchemist were living in afghanistan, by now you would both be grandpas. heck, for all i know, you probably are.

We are both young, and you consider us to have the wisdom and knowledge of a Pir. Call me Pir Jamaludeen, and alchemist... Pir alchemist.

yeah and you were brainwashed by osama. you don't see me supporting extra marital affairs or promoting vodka but i do see your buddy alchemist there justifying women getting burned alive and children sold off in to meaningless marriages because it's done in the presence of a mullah who recites a couple of verses of quraan he probably never bothered to learn the meanings for. who is mentally colonized now? what sharia are you talking about? go back 10 pages forward and read what i said about the sharia in afghanistan, then come back and wave your fist in front of me.

This is just childish "Oh you were brainwashed by osama". People getting burned alive is in Indian culture, which has nothing to do with Shariah. There is a lot of negative aspects of our culture, which people mistake for Shariah... and religion. Children are never sold off in meaningless marriages... you see.. people in Afghanistan live more of a collective life..not the independent individualistic life you see in the west, therefore.. family pride..honor..respect...values..religion come first.. therefore .. if someone marries at the age of 13 .. or 40 or even 80.. and the consent is given from both parties..the families agree.. and is all according to shariah then who the hell are you to object? Its none of your business..

Shariah Approve of it..
The families approve of it..
Both parties approve of it.

You want to follow shariah, then you wish to change the legal age for marraige? Its called holding two watermelons in one hand (Peh Yaw Las Ki dwa indwaney nissey)..which means you are bringing innovations...to shariah..

What qualifications do you have for this? some textbooks?

Another sign of mental colonisation..

As a matter of fact, define what a marriage is?

faye

12-12-2011, 02:28 AM

google "atheists pedophilia"

its the first result
these crimes have been around for centuries, long before atheism was invented. stop crapping on with these ridiculous generalisations unknown. check out child sexual abuse in israel, where this dude comes from.

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 02:39 AM

[QUOTE=Jamaludeen;555392]These are issues that must be solved internally through shariah. While, you are free to voice your opinion, it is another story whether these resolutions will be welcomed in Afghanistan by the people, especially when they are dramatised with western gibberish.
listen jamalo, don't chew on my brains okay? i have not been discussing secularism all this while. don't argue with me against it because it frustrates me when someone acts like an idiot by coming up with his own ideas for an argument, makes it mine and then argues with me against them and i am not a very pleasant person when i am frustrated.
you can't stop killing each other or treat women and children like human beings because it's sounds too much of a westernized idea??

These are very important and real issues. You want to avoid them, i do not. yeah your type has been dealing with these issues for a very long time now. i see the wonders you have come up with already. a nation full of beggars...that is what you have created. go celebrate somewhere.. Why is it that parents tell their kids, not to speak to strangers..or not to take candy off a stranger? Are you not going to educate your kids on these serious issues and the harms..of it.. what are you talking about??

Or will you just let them fall into the traps of a pedophile...what??

think.....no i don't want to think. what the hell are you talking about??

We are both young, and you consider us to have the wisdom and knowledge of a Pir. Call me Pir Jamaludeen, and alchemist... Pir alchemist.

how about idiot1 and idiot2??

This is just childish "Oh you were brainwashed by osama". People getting burned alive is in Indian culture, which has nothing to do with Shariah. i didn't mean burned alive as part of a ritual, i meant as the result of domestic violence. and mind you, women in afghanistan did used to get burned in the similar manner that widows in indian culture are burned today. i have a book on it that i read about 3 months ago...There is a lot of negative aspects of our culture, which people mistake for Shariah... and religion. don't slap me in the face with my own point. Children are never sold off in meaningless marriages... you see.. people in Afghanistan live more of a collective life..not the independent individualistic life you see in the west, therefore.. family pride..honor..respect...values..religion come first..if you had the decency to read what i had written 6 pages ago before you declared me mentally colonized you would have found me saying that when women are given the choice of deciding who they don't want to marry (at least that if not who they do want to marry) they wouldn't end up getting beaten up, abused and beaten by their husbands and so there wouldn't be any reasons left for them to run away from home and bring shame upon their parents as well as their husbands. therefore .. if someone marries at the age of 13 .. or 40 or even 80.. and the consent is given from both parties..the families agree.. let me tell you what else a consent from both parties are given to that involves children of 13 years of age. children who are sold in to sex trafficking by their parents. does the consent of their children justify that?? i already explained why a child of 13 can't be a wife to an older man and to be honest, i am sick and tired of repeating myself over and over. and is all according to shariah then who the hell are you to object? i am dzj and i already discussed that too a few pages earlier.. Its none of your business.. some argument that is. :glare: it very much is my business.

Shariah Approve of it..sharia might approve of it but sharia doesn't stick around for the honeymoon to get over and the reality of it to set in which is why i don't approve of it.
The families approve of it..human beings are not cows. just because families approve of selling their children in to slavery doesn't mean we should stand back and watch.
Both parties approve of it. i don't care.

You want to follow shariah, then you wish to change the legal age for marraige? the legal age for marriage in afghanistan is 16 not 13. 11 and 13 year olds married to men 5 times their age is a crime according to the islamic emirate (what a joke) of afghanistan to begin with. there is your sharia right there... Its called holding two watermelons in one hand (Peh Yaw Las Ki dwa indwaney nissey)..which means you are bringing innovations...to shariah..thank you for clarifying that.

What qualifications do you have for this? some textbooks?
i don't need a text book, i have a brain. in case you forgot, text books were written by people who have nothing extraordinary asides from a functional brain. nod nod** yes, that is how it works jamaludeen.
Another sign of mental colonisation..

As a matter of fact, define what a marriage is? i already did that three times int his thread. where were you when that happened?? yaaaaawn***
i have a novel to finish reading.

Afghanistan2010

12-12-2011, 03:54 AM

given the choice of deciding who they don't want to marry (at least that if not who they do want to marry) they wouldn't end up getting beaten up, abused and beaten by their husbands and so there wouldn't be any reasons left for them to run away from home and bring shame upon their parents as well as their husbands.

that is a clear problem in our society and we pray to Allah that he remove this and other errors from us.

because Shariah says something else.

Soldat_Amir

12-12-2011, 04:16 AM

Hey unknown cool story bro

what about this, is this not child abuse too

QcYykH-V_R8

06LL7pWsNq4

graveyardofempires

12-12-2011, 06:02 AM

^
government controlled propaganda.

you know how it works guys.

this sellout amir thinks he can fool us with mainstream propaganda.

yes there are pashtun kids who fight to liberate their country alongside their fathers.

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 06:54 AM

listen jamalo, don't chew on my brains okay? i have not been discussing secularism all this while. don't argue with me against it because it frustrates me when someone acts like an idiot by coming up with his own ideas for an argument, makes it mine and then argues with me against them and i am not a very pleasant person when i am frustrated.
you can't stop killing each other or treat women and children like human beings because it's sounds too much of a westernized idea??

Listen Zoghal. You are chewing your own brain with your lack of rational and coherence thoughts. You said, you follow shariah..right? then if shariah approve of marriages between a 13 years old girl and a 60 years old..then who are you to tell people whats up... I'm just stating facts on where your allegiance lie. .. Your argument actually was..that 13 years olds shouldn't marry 60 years old..

yeah your type has been dealing with these issues for a very long time now. i see the wonders you have come up with already. a nation full of beggars...that is what you have created. go celebrate somewhere.

irrelevant..to our discussion.

what are you talking about??

what??

no i don't want to think. what the hell are you talking about??

You spoke about, how you are not bothered by pedophilia, pornography, etc..therefore you will not educate yourself on it..and remain ignorant..

and i provided you with a reason.. to study it.. up to you bro!

how about idiot1 and idiot2??

Have some manners emo kid...life is not really about you hating everyone.. its actually about everyone hating you.

i didn't mean burned alive as part of a ritual, i meant as the result of domestic violence. and mind you, women in afghanistan did used to get burned in the similar manner that widows in indian culture are burned today. i have a book on it that i read about 3 months ago...

I don't agree with this as well.. there might be people who may burn their women as a result of domestic..however not as a ritual...unless you can provide me with proof..then i am willing to have my view changed..

.if you had the decency to read what i had written 6 pages ago before you declared me mentally colonized you would have found me saying that when women are given the choice of deciding who they don't want to marry (at least that if not who they do want to marry) they wouldn't end up getting beaten up, abused and beaten by their husbands and so there wouldn't be any reasons left for them to run away from home and bring shame upon their parents as well as their husbands.

Domestic violence is wrong, but then again you are speculating...because what if they got married through love marriage? Through love marraige..The girl had the choice..made the choice? After a while, the husband beats her up..there is a break up and a divorce..very common as well...
What i'm saying...Its not much about whether the girl is given the choice or not to get married..but really depends on the man..and not every man beats up his wife...

there is no statistics on this.. and you cannot prove this..

To sum it up.. this is your argument..

Arrange Marraige = forced = Husband beat up wife..

let me tell you what else a consent from both parties are given to that involves children of 13 years of age. children who are sold in to sex trafficking by their parents. does the consent of their children justify that?? i already explained why a child of 13 can't be a wife to an older man and to be honest, i am sick and tired of repeating myself over and over.

sex trafficking is wrong...in Islam..and there is no justification for this...

and You are sick of repeating yourself? You actually don't mind sticking your nose in others business so cope with it. You are just stating your opinion in regard to it..and nothing more.. and you turned out to be liar..as you stated that you are all for shariah..but now.. you are having doubts...

i am dzj and i already discussed that too a few pages earlier.. some argument that is. it very much is my business.

I'm being honest.. its none of you business.. how would you like it if we all started sticking our noses in your business.. Would you like it? I'm sure.. your chill pill prescriptions will go skyrocketing...and the funny thing is.. you have no Islamic basis to back up your opinion..

1. Shariah Approve of it..sharia might approve of it but sharia doesn't stick around for the honeymoon to get over and the reality of it to set in which is why i don't approve of it.
2. The families approve of it..human beings are not cows. just because families approve of selling their children in to slavery doesn't mean we should stand back and watch.
3. Both parties approve of it. i don't care.

1. Speculating again... a love marriage could as well turn the same..where the girl has made a decision...
2. Appeal to ridicule...again you have no right.. to say anything..unless she is being sold for sex trafficking..then maybe you should do something about it..besides that its none of your business
3. you just care about winning a debate through spontaneous trolling..

the legal age for marriage in Afghanistan is 16 not 13. 11 and 13 year olds married to men 5 times their age is a crime according to the Islamic emirate (what a joke) of Afghanistan to begin with. there is your sharia right there..

Do you really think...Afghanistan is Shariah right now? are you serial? stop chewing on your brain..

i don't need a text book, i have a brain. in case you forgot, text books were written by people who have nothing extraordinary asides from a functional brain. nod nod** yes, that is how it works jamaludeen.

looool.. all you do is read text books and you think.. you are intelligent...

go to a university...

i already did that three times int his thread. where were you when that happened?? yaaaaawn***
i have a novel to finish reading.

Do you really think.. i read all your threads?...I don't find your posts as significant as others... try to use quotes next time...when separating text..

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 07:38 AM

^ why should i even bother to argue with you if you can't even be bothered with yourself to read my posts?
i don't have the time nor the patience to have the same conversation with every idiot in this forum. i read half of your last post and then i got bored so i glanced at the last sentenced and discovered that you don't even read my posts because you don't find the answer to your questions "significant" enough. some rationality that is.

everything that you have asked me so far has already been discussed. if you want a discussion then go read them and come up with new questions. if you don't care enough to do that then stop repeating the same **** over and over again.

graveyardofempires

12-12-2011, 07:39 AM

^
your posts are ong but you hardly say anythign that makes sense.

so its waste of time to read your posts.

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 08:09 AM

^ why should i even bother to argue with you if you can't even be bothered with yourself to read my posts?
i don't have the time nor the patience to have the same conversation with every idiot in this forum. i read half of your last post and then i got bored so i glanced at the last sentenced and discovered that you don't even read my posts because you don't find the answer to your questions "significant" enough. some rationality that is.

everything that you have asked me so far has already been discussed. if you want a discussion then go read them and come up with new questions. if you don't care enough to do that then stop repeating the same **** over and over again.

appeal to emotion and fear..

you can't debate with me..bro..

your arguments are dumb..no offence..

Soldat_Amir

12-12-2011, 08:30 AM

Jamal

eUP42nSP1ko

Soldat_Amir

12-12-2011, 08:35 AM

I find it quite insulting that people accuse secularists of being causers of child abuse.

Not only is it insulting but quite misinforming. People who live in a secular country are given equal rights regardless of their religion,race and creed, however if one looks at Saudi Arabia and the following video you can see quite clearly the difference

Sxn-26-8ork

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 08:35 AM

Jamal

eUP42nSP1ko

and how is that related to the topic...in the first post?

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 08:36 AM

Jamalo the stupidity that the presence of some of you tends to exude is enough to scar and traumatize anyone for a lifetime but worry not, I have become immune to it.

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 08:36 AM

I find it quite insulting that people accuse secularists of being causers of child abuse.

Not only is it insulting but quite misinforming. People who live in a secular country are given equal rights regardless of their religion,race and creed, however if one looks at Saudi Arabia and the following video you can see quite clearly the difference

Sxn-26-8ork

if you love secularism, then leave Afghanistan alone and let the people decide for themselve...

Also, how is this again related to the topic in the first post?

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 08:39 AM

Jamalo the stupidity that the presence of some of you tends to exude is enough to scar and traumatize anyone for a lifetime but worry not, I have become immune to it.

yes, you are right... your stupidity has scarred and traumatized me.. but i have always been immune to the scarr and trauma from stupid people.

Levanaye Zalmaye

12-12-2011, 08:39 AM

if you love secularism, then leave Afghanistan alone and let the people decide for themselve...

Also, how is this again related to the topic in the first post?

Didn't know you were also influenced by secularism so much.

"And let the people decide for themselves" is the core of all secular belief and this is precisely what Maseed and I believe in. Religious belief, on the other hand, says, "implement it by force for you are on God's mission".

Alchemist

12-12-2011, 08:40 AM

I think we can put the stamp of "mentally colonized" on DJ.Z's forehead.
Any moral objections by her should be scrutinized as it may be owing to her inferiority complex.

As for the Amir's objection - we know what the flaws are. Afghanistan has been struggling to thwart off western influence for over a century now. The big game between the russians and english from the 19th century and now in the 21st century the americans. I don't mean the influence of Islam and arabia by all means - We Afghans have had just as much impact on Arabs as they have had on us - Ibn Sina, Al Biruni, Sayed Jamalduin...Bukhari the hadith collector, Abu Hanifa the founder of the most popular madhab...All great scholars and all from Afghanistan. Where as now we have sell outs like Khalilzad and Karzai that have brought corruptions of all sorts into Afghanistan. Fitna is worse than Qatil... And they are putting guns into the hands of Afghans and telling them to fight their own like the russians did before them. And all for what? What does Afghanistan have that they want so badly?

Faye...
Don't just jump into any discussion without reading the Original Post. An atheist professor of Ethics at a university is rationalizing paedophilia on the grounds that morality only exists when one believes in God. Your response to that is - "Show me the data?" ...this is to show how vile atheism is when it publicly decrees its ammorality.
The argument isn't atheism vs religion - If that were the case, the Talmude specifically states that a Rabi can sexually molest a baby infant! The discussion has turned this way because very time the flaws of atheism are pointed out..the messenger is attacked in an attempt to poison the well.

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 08:43 AM

Didn't know you were also influenced by secularism so much.

"And let the people decide for themselves" is the core of all secular belief and this is precisely what Maseed and I believe in. Religious belief, on the other hand, says, "implement it by force for you are on God's mission".

nice try....

but wrong..

Religious belief says..that it is every muslims duty to implement shariah.

shame!

Alchemist

12-12-2011, 08:45 AM

Didn't know you were also influenced by secularism so much.

"And let the people decide for themselves" is the core of all secular belief and this is precisely what Maseed and I believe in. Religious belief, on the other hand, says, "implement it by force for you are on God's mission".

Fallacious. The core of all secular beleif is separation of church and state.
If the people choose "church" as state then secularism is defeated.

Hence the outcry in the west when sharia proponents are elected in tunisia and egypt

Levanaye Zalmaye

12-12-2011, 08:46 AM

nice try....

but wrong..

Religious belief says..that it is every muslims duty to implement shariah.

shame!

Which is another way of saying, "implement it by force for you are on God's mission".

But I'm surprised you believe that we should let the people decide. I guess there's hope after all.

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 08:47 AM

alchemist you are a coward. As I said, I would like to see you follow sharia and wed off your daughter at 13. Same goes to jamalo and anyone else thinking I am insane for being against.

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 08:49 AM

alchemist you are a coward. As I said, I would like to see you follow sharia and wed off your daughter at 13. Same goes to jamalo and anyone else thinking I am insane for being against.

If your daughter at the age of 13, walks up to you one day and says..mommy.. i want to marry this 60 years old man?

would you still be against it? look..she has decided..

see how one sided your argument is...

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 08:57 AM

If your daughter at the age of 13, walks up to you one day and says..mommy.. i want to marry this 60 years old man?
would you still be against it? look..she has decided..
see how one sided your argument is...

my daughter is not marrying at the age of 13 no matter who decides. It's good to know how your brain works though. I have never come across a 13 year old who wanted to get married to anyone let alone a 60 year old man. No wonder it's so difficult to make you people understand.

Alchemist

12-12-2011, 09:06 AM

If your daughter at the age of 13, walks up to you one day and says..mommy.. i want to marry this 60 years old man?

would you still be against it? look..she has decided..

see how one sided your argument is...

she is still not married her self...so God knows what age is actually appropriate for marriage for her then?

The average age of brides in canada is 31.5 years...so go figure.

What's better? Marry a man that will die soon at an early age...or have some permiscuous relationships with boys your own age that will last no longer than a fortnight? Hmm...what a moral dilemma.

Alchemist

12-12-2011, 09:21 AM

my daughter is not marrying at the age of 13 no matter who decides. It's good to know how your brain works though. I have never come across a 13 year old who wanted to get married to anyone let alone a 60 year old man. No wonder it's so difficult to make you people understand.

There are two type of women who are married at a young age. The type that were forced in to it and the type that are afraid they will end up lonely once they age because no one would want them once the twinkle of youth leaves their eyes. I would appreciate it if you leave my personal life out of it alchemist.

I have told you that the alternative of a girl being married before the age of 16 in Afghanistan is not ending up in the same situations are the contestants of your favorite tv shows do. How difficult of a sentence is that to understand?? Take your mullah nasrudeen mentality to hell with you. You are saying girls in Afghanistan should be punished for a sin they might commit if they were to not be married before their brains fully develops.

If anything, feeding idiots to grow up and be so dumb should be a crime with a severe punishment.

faye

12-12-2011, 09:42 AM

i love the way some of you guys know where to find all the crap youtubes. dead giveaway guys!!!

Soldat_Amir

12-12-2011, 11:52 AM

Alchemist and Jamaludeen

Child abuse gets addressed in the west hence we have charities, groups and a well organised police force that protects children, on the other hand, Afghanistan and Pakistan has no real protection of children who are abused and you can see it for yourself when you walk on the streets.

Child brides are accepted in Afghanistan and Pakistan, actually by most of the Muslim world. Girls get forced to marry elderly men and killed if they are raped for bringing shame and dishonor.

The reason why your mother and father brought you to the west is so you can avoid it but instead Alchemist you defend the same abusive system while you sleep in your cosy bed and other peoples daughters are married off to men whom they have no relation nor understanding with.

Afghanistan2010

12-12-2011, 12:23 PM

If your daughter at the age of 13, walks up to you one day and says..mommy.. i want to marry this 60 years old man?

would you still be against it? look..she has decided..

see how one sided your argument is...

Don't reply to the childish questioning,we had that numerous times , and she is repeating the same words over and over again to convince herself.

We have agreed that there is a problem,and it is a problem inside the mind of the people who do such things but she has no right to generalize it or proclaim it as problem of shariah while there is no shariah and to discuss this here is contrary to the topic of this thread.

And Soldat Amir is trollling again,with different topics.He is pretty much backward or he can't read thread titles.

I discuss men and women friendship he starts with abuse and rape cases in Afghanistan , Pakistan.

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 04:11 PM

my daughter is not marrying at the age of 13 no matter who decides. It's good to know how your brain works though. I have never come across a 13 year old who wanted to get married to anyone let alone a 60 year old man. No wonder it's so difficult to make you people understand.

How does my brain work?

You don't make sense and you contradict what you said before.... you said.. give her a choice..and i gave you a possible scenario..where she is given the choice..then you disagree..again...

Like I told you before, there is a world outside of that little room you are hiding..in

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 04:22 PM

Alchemist and Jamaludeen

Child abuse gets addressed in the west hence we have charities, groups and a well organised police force that protects children, on the other hand, Afghanistan and Pakistan has no real protection of children who are abused and you can see it for yourself when you walk on the streets.

Child brides are accepted in Afghanistan and Pakistan, actually by most of the Muslim world. Girls get forced to marry elderly men and killed if they are raped for bringing shame and dishonor.

The reason why your mother and father brought you to the west is so you can avoid it but instead Alchemist you defend the same abusive system while you sleep in your cosy bed and other peoples daughters are married off to men whom they have no relation nor understanding with.

Soldat Amir,

you are again speculating...

You think... that arrange marraige = forced = husband beats wife..

its like saying..

an 18 years old girl gets married and finds the love of her life, therefore her husband will not abuse her..what is the likelihood that she may end up with a wife beater? The probability is about the same..

Neither you... or this dazahrooclowness are married so you wouldn't know..what even marriage is.. let alone discuss it..

Most of your knowledge comes from movies and books such as twilight..and other crap...instead of coming here wasting our time.. go cheerlead for your teams..

And you know..well how our society is way different...than other societies..

DaZahroclowness..... work on your manners... you are not 12..i'm sure..

but when you curse.. you seem no older than 12.. I bet in reality .. you are just a quiet little soul..

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 04:27 PM

There are two type of women who are married at a young age. The type that were forced in to it and the type that are afraid they will end up lonely once they age because no one would want them once the twinkle of youth leaves their eyes. I would appreciate it if you leave my personal life out of it alchemist.

I have told you that the alternative of a girl being married before the age of 16 in Afghanistan is not ending up in the same situations are the contestants of your favorite tv shows do. How difficult of a sentence is that to understand?? Take your mullah nasrudeen mentality to hell with you. You are saying girls in Afghanistan should be punished for a sin they might commit if they were to not be married before their brains fully develops.

If anything, feeding idiots to grow up and be so dumb should be a crime with a severe punishment.

are you really sure ..there are two types of women? What about the type of women who love women? What about the type of women ..who are into younger men (I'm not talking about faye)? What about the type...who end up no where in life..and try to spoil it for others? What about the bitchy type? What about the type who dont want to get married but want to spend their entire life with a man? What about the type.. who are retarded? etc..etc...

So thats it huh? 2 types...bunti aur bubli

Okay, so your argument is that their brains do not fully develop now? Seriously... Trying to save a face now...

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 06:51 PM

are you really sure ..there are two types of women? What about the type of women who love women? What about the type of women ..who are into younger men (I'm not talking about faye)? What about the type...who end up no where in life..and try to spoil it for others? What about the bitchy type? What about the type who dont want to get married but want to spend their entire life with a man? What about the type.. who are retarded? etc..etc...

So thats it huh? 2 types...bunti aur bubli

Okay, so your argument is that their brains do not fully develop now? Seriously... Trying to save a face now...
alright, don't worry. everything will be alright...i am here now. take a deep breath, drink a full glass of water and then get your behind back in your chair and finish reading the rest of that sentence. :glare:
in case you didn't notice, the second part of that sentence was "there are two type of women who are married at a young age." i didn't say there were two type of women, period. what about the rest of the types of women??
what about men who love other men or are rapists? child molesters?? killers?? what about them?? what are you trying to prove??
yes, the human brain is not fully developed until one reaches the age of 25 jamalo. and even by then some people don't learn how to use it properly.

How does my brain work? guaaaaa! don't bother...it hurts my brain to even think about it.

You don't make sense and you contradict what you said before.... you said.. give her a choice..and i gave you a possible scenario..where she is given the choice..then you disagree..again...yeah, when i said give her a choice, i didn't mean ask her if she wants to get married or to whom she wants to get married while she is 13. i meant, wait for her to grow up and then give her a choice.
honestly jamaludeen, i have never come across a girl who has wanted to be married at the age 13. and if i ever do come across one, i would most likely whack her on the head, not run over to the first man i can find and then get her married to him. i am not sure about you though....even those videos that alchemist posted were about girls who wanted to have sex with men. girls who were paid to participate in that show and claim they wanted to have sex with men. girls who were raised in a messed up society where it is okay for them go be hanging around with their "boyfriends" till the middle of the night as long as they get home at some point before morning.
that is not how it works for afghan girls. you guys make it seem like 13 year old afghan girls run towards the first sight of a man they see if they are not married by that age. which makes me wonder how awkward and difficult it must make you feel to be in the same room with your sister or daughter some day. it's like a pimple on your face that you desperately want to get rid of as soon as possible..
that is not right. if i was in power, i would seriously forbid some of you from having children. i would seriously not trust your type with a human life.
Like I told you before, there is a world outside of that little room you are hiding..in i am sorry, was i supposed to be standing somewhere in the yard with a red flag waving in my hand?? i am not hiding, i live in my room. :glare:

JAMALUDEEN

12-12-2011, 07:34 PM

alright, don't worry. everything will be alright...i am here now. take a deep breath, drink a full glass of water and then get your behind back in your chair and finish reading the rest of that sentence.
in case you didn't notice, the second part of that sentence was "there are two type of women who are married at a young age." i didn't say there were two type of women, period. what about the rest of the types of women??
what about men who love other men or are rapists? child molesters?? killers?? what about them?? what are you trying to prove??
yes, the human brain is not fully developed until one reaches the age of 25 jamalo. and even by then some people don't learn how to use it properly.

You said.. "There are two type of women who are married at a young age."

Define what a woman is? its an adult..an adolescent..so i gave you a response to that..

you are changing goal posts...

At first you took the moral ground ..that it is wrong that a 13 years old marries an old.....even though alchemist proposed..that biologically speaking...a girl the age of 13 is ready to reproduce...so now.. you are taking the biological stance as well.. by saying that their brain hasnt developed yet..

you are just changing goal posts..and as i said..you are trying to save a face..by grabbing at whatever..excuse..you can find..

guaaaaa! don't bother...it hurts my brain to even think about it.

define hurt?

eah, when i said give her a choice, i didn't mean ask her if she wants to get married or to whom she wants to get married while she is 13. i meant, wait for her to grow up and then give her a choice.
honestly jamaludeen, i have never come across a girl who has wanted to be married at the age 13. and if i ever do come across one, i would most likely whack her on the head, not run over to the first man i can find and then get her married to him. i am not sure about you though....even those videos that alchemist posted were about girls who wanted to have sex with men. girls who were paid to participate in that show and claim they wanted to have sex with men. girls who were raised in a messed up society where it is okay for them go be hanging around with their "boyfriends" till the middle of the night as long as they get home at some point before morning.
that is not how it works for afghan girls. you guys make it seem like 13 year old afghan girls run towards the first sight of a man they see if they are not married by that age. which makes me wonder how awkward and difficult it must make you feel to be in the same room with your sister or daughter some day. it's like a pimple on your face that you desperately want to get rid of as soon as possible..
that is not right. if i was in power, i would seriously forbid some of you from having children. i would seriously not trust your type with a human life.
Like I told you before, there is a world outside of that little room you are hiding..in i am sorry, was i supposed to be standing somewhere in the yard with a red flag waving in my hand?? i am not hiding, i live in my room

so you want to take her right away now? see the contradiction in your argument...

Whats the difference between you..and the person who forces her to get married now.. both of you are imposing...what you think feels right..on someone... You want her to make a choice..make a decision..and then if she still wants to carry on with it.. you object.. as it doesn't fit in with your own little agenda...

Its like the criminal justice system.. in the UK.. where juveniles are put on anti social behavior orders... which further incriminates them..as it widens the net.... and as a result they are punished more harsher..

These are not simple issues, and while i do not agree with many issues that we have which are cultural...however.. i won't let you bash islam...through imposing western concepts of age legality over shariah..

If you were in power, you would take everyone rights away...therefore you are no better..

You argue for the sake of arguing..and you mistook the point alchemist was making when he posted the video...

Alchemist

12-12-2011, 07:44 PM

^forbid us like you have forbidden yourself?

Our imaginary daughters are ok for you to talk about your out of bounds?

You define the wordy "batty".

"There are only 2 types of girls that get married young: retards and desperados...good girls are like me" Its called a FALSE DICHOTOMY! (google it...you are arguing with guys here...not your blonde hairdresser so I'd appreciate it if you could avoid the fallacies)

"You make it sound like 13 year olds will have sex with 200 men if they aren't married off young. Those girls are from a dysfunctional society....Afghanistan is a dysfunctional society...BUT the girls there don't want to get married...unless they are retards or desperados".

We should make a wall for you - Bibi DaZahrooJam's Wise Sayings: "Human brain isn't developed until 25 years of age"..

LOL

Yours maybe...

But regurlar folks can think critically and abstractly by age 11+...

you looney toon..

The point of the video was to show you that INDEPEDENTED minded 13 year old girls CAN and DO choose to be with men. Maybe...JUST maybe if they were from a dysfunctional society...they could be married off to a man...of their own choosing ...maybe he'll be 38 like Celine Dion's husband. And start a family...

You keep pulling crap out of thin air without any reference...where do you get all this from anyway? "Cosmopolitin"?

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 08:01 PM

jamaludeen i am not bashing islam, i am bashing you. i know better than blaming islam for your behaviour. don't flatter yourself. in my opinion, you stand very far away from islam regardless of what you claim.
define a woman for you so you could redefine it for me by squeesing in the translation of forming boobs in to the defination of womanhood?? a woman is not a woman until she has reached the age of 21. i know that because i went throught that phase and i realize how naive i was before that age and how my view of the people and things around me changed drastically. you probably started growing a beard around that time so you don't even have a clue as to what age a woman becomes a woman by. there are two type of women who get married at a young age and one type of a child that gets married at a young age. end of the story on that subject.
just because i said growing breasts is not a good enough of an excuse as to why someone should be married doesn't mean i boycott biology or the full growth of a brain. (i swear you people will give me a hemorrhage one of these days)

i don't want to define hurt.

so if i am telling a girl who is younger than 18 years of age to wait until she is older before she decides to get married, then i am contradicting myself because i too like those who are out to get her married at the age of 13 am imposing my views on her??
are mothers who are holding on to thier children's hands while crossing the road also imposing on their children? why shouldn't they let go of their child's hand and let him go off to where ever he wants to go?? so they are not just as evil and imposing as some stranger who might take away with the child and do with his future as he pleases?? what kind of an argument is this??
don't they hold on to their children because children don't know what is right or wrong for them until a certain age and then let them cross the road on their own??

i never bothered myself with alchemist's videos. i have raised four siblings from the ages of 6 to 18 and not once have i felt as frustrated with either one of them as i have been feeling with the two of you the last four days. if there are 4 other idiots like you out there then there is no point. afghanistan is not going to be fixed any time soon. we are doomed.

and please, don't remove the font color or quotations from my posts when you reply to them the way i reply to yours. i do it because it's clear with my font color as to where i start and where you end. it's confusing when you do it.

faye

12-12-2011, 08:06 PM

since when is alchemist the expert on female maturity, jamaludeen? i have been reading that physically, young womens bodies are ready to reproduce at around 17/18. possibly, emotionally, at a later age. men would have to be later, emotionally and mentally, lol.

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 08:33 PM

forbid us like you have forbidden yourself? i am 24 brother alchemist. i am sorry for not living up to your expectations by being a grandmother by now. could you find it in your heart to forgive me?? please?? :glare:

Our imaginary daughters are ok for you to talk about your out of bounds?

You define the wordy "batty". i don't want to.

"There are only 2 types of girls that get married young: retards and desperados...good girls are like me" Its called a FALSE DICHOTOMY! (google it...you are arguing with guys here...not your blonde hairdresser so I'd appreciate it if you could avoid the fallacies) i don't have a hair dresser so stop generalizing blondes. i never said anyone should be like me.

"You make it sound like 13 year olds will have sex with 200 men if they aren't married off young. Those girls are from a dysfunctional society....Afghanistan is a dysfunctional society...BUT the girls there don't want to get married...unless they are retards or desperados". yeah because the definition of the word a "dysfunctional" society is limited to producing teenagers who end up at jerry springer's show. :glare: i am being sarcastic there so don't use that against me in your next argument.

We should make a wall for you - Bibi DaZahrooJam's Wise Sayings: "Human brain isn't developed until 25 years of age"..
shut up
LOL

Yours maybe...

But regurlar folks can think critically and abstractly by age 11+... yeah?? why weren't you married when you were 11 then? :glare:

you looney toon..

The point of the video was to show you that INDEPEDENTED minded 13 year old girls CAN and DO choose to be with men. Maybe...JUST maybe if they were from a dysfunctional society...they could be married off to a man...of their own choosing ...maybe he'll be 38 like Celine Dion's husband. And start a family...
i am starting to wonder if you are terrorized by the idea of being rejected by women who are adults and able to think on their own...yeah..that can explain lots of things.
You keep pulling crap out of thin air without any reference...where do you get all this from anyway? "Cosmopolitin"? what is a reference?? something that has been confirmed by someone else out there? you don't need a reference to verify what is common sense.

kate middleston's friend's orgy party
bestiality
pornography
jerry springer's show
cosmopolitan
......
....
...
..
.
quite an interesting collection of references you have there buddy..where do you find the time to keep up with all these references? or do you keep a tag on your favorite subjects?

Alchemist

12-12-2011, 08:53 PM

http://www.comments99.com/c/shut_up/shut_up_018.jpg

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 08:56 PM

no

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-12-2011, 09:40 PM

You can tell which person is absolitely clueless when it comes to women. I am reading the posts in this thread in disbelief

unknownprince

12-12-2011, 09:55 PM

Alchemist and DZJ

Please take the conversation elsewhere. While Alchemist does touch on the original article, DZJ does not
Hence, I do not appreciate the derailing of this important discussion, and would like most of the irrelevant discussion deleted from here.

And Amir, do not take offense, but my original thread title and the purpose of this is to discuss the linkage between atheism and pedophilia

pedophiles exist everywhere and in all faiths, but the articles and videos shed light on this trend that exists.

No where in the original article or videos is Afghanistan or Pashtuns even mentioned,

To all

Do not derail this thread with irrelevant posts as it is a violation of forum rules

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 09:57 PM

prove to me that you actually exist and that you are not just a fragment of my imagination.

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-12-2011, 09:59 PM

^ the word youre looking for is figment

IamDZJ

12-12-2011, 10:02 PM

another chunk of my imagination.:whistling:

Alchemist

12-12-2011, 10:26 PM

^ Well...I am sure you are the ladies man ;)

I think I read somewhere Soldout Khamir saying that the difference between the west and Afghanistan is that in the west the abused children are taken care...

The following summaries are a few selected samples of real California Family Law cases (catogorized by county), in which children are taken away from safe parents, and forced to live with abusive parents. Is this becasue the abuser is offered money to film his sexual abuse against the child so the judicial system gets a kick back? All involved would be local police, judges, children services, attorneys and even medical examiners.
You decide after reading the following, is $8 billion a year worth this type of corruption.

Los Angeles/Orange County (Torrance)

Born in 1988, this little girl was placed in the custody of her mother when she was five years old, seeing her violent father only in the presence of a court monitor. When she was seven, she was forced to see her father without a supervisor, and reported to professionals that he was sexually and physically abusing her. The abuse was corroborated by medical evidence. She had a cluster of symptoms indicative of sexual abuse including nightmares, night terrors, enuresis, encopresis, excessive fears of her mother dying, depression, suicide attempt, eating disorder, extreme dissociation, intense anger, flashbacks, physical pains, headaches, insomnia, nausea, diarrhea, constipation, stomach aches, and a learning disability. Rather than protecting her, Judge F. granted primary custody to her father. In Utah, where her mother had moved, physical and sexual abuse was substantiated and she received complete court protection. However, California regained jurisdiction and placed her with the father. The child, now 11, is only able to see her non-offending mother for 8 hours per month under supervised conditions.

Born in 1990, this child made graphic disclosures of rape by his father, including group sex, to physicians, therapists, and detectives. He had a cluster of symptoms indicative of sexual abuse including sexualized behavior, depression, suicide attempt, eating disorder, extreme dissociation, intense anger, physical pains, headaches, insomnia, nausea, diarrhea, constipation, stomach aches, learning disability and attention problems. CPS did not protect him. The child’s attorney did not represent the child’s wishes. Despite saying that he wanted to live with his mother, he was forced to live with his identified perpetrator who then moved to Boston. He is rarely allowed to see his mother, and only with a supervisor.

Born in 1989, this child was taken from his mother after he disclosed that his father beat him when he was 4 years old. There was medical evidence of abuse. The child had a cluster of symptoms indicative of sexual abuse, including sexualized behaviors, depression, intense anger, nightmares and night terrors, headaches, stomach aches, bladder problems and enuresis, diarrhea, phobias, and attention problems. The boy stated he wanted to live with his mother, and instead was forced to live with his father. The child’s attorney does not represent the wishes of the child. The non-offending mother has spent approximately $85,000 and must represent herself in court.

Los Angeles (Long Beach and Concord)

This four-year-old child lived with his mother and 3 brothers in Long Beach after his parents separated in 1997. When the mother decided to move to Northern California, the judge ordered the child delivered to Southern California every week for visits in 1998. An evaluator recommended a change of custody to the father, despite the mother complying with the visitation schedule.

Los Angeles County

This two-year-old girl disclosed sexual abuse by father, and was given to identified abuser. The mother is on supervised visits.

These small children were placed in the custody of their mother when they were nearly one and two years old. Their violent father was ordered to take a parenting class. A year later they were taken away from their mother and forced to live with their father. The judge stated he was only interested in the mother’s “alienation” (the mother was breast-feeding), and ignored police reports of the father’s domestic violence and history of DUI’s. The unemployed mother is ordered to pay child support of over $1200 per month to the multi-millionaire Israeli father (who obtained a green card through their marriage). The toddlers are being raised to speak only Hebrew and are only allowed scant contact with their mother, who cannot afford an attorney.

Sacramento County

This boy, born in 1990, was placed in the custody of his mother after to his parents divorce, with overnight visits with his father. When he was less than two years old, he began reporting on-going sodomy by his father. He had a cluster of symptoms indicative of sexual abuse, including rectal bleeding, nightmares, night terrors, enuresis, encopresis, sexualized behavior, depression, extreme dissociation, intense anger, flashbacks, physical pains, insomnia, diarrhea, and stomach aches. The child disclosed the abuse to 5 teachers, family physician, therapists, police, family and friends. There were over 62 reports of suspected abuse in 7 years. Child Protective Services investigated and substantiated 7 reports of child sex abuse. The child wrote and talked to the judge, asking to live with his mother and grandmother. Instead, the court repeatedly placed him in the custody of his identified perpetrator. He called 911 for help from his father’s house, and his therapist called the police to help him, and was put into expensive private foster care, rather than with his non-offending mother. He was able to stay with his mother while she was dying. Four months after her death, he was forcibly removed from his non-offending grandmother’s care by armed police. He was placed in expensive foster care again for over six months, and is now forced by Juvenile Court to live with his identified perpetrator permanently. The child’s attorneys did not represent his wishes, and functioned as de facto attorneys for the accused perpetrator

California
My son was born out of a relationship with a man I hardly knew. I married him due to the pregnancy and over the next several months found out that he had a secret drug life, he was a pathological liar, had an obsession with perverted pornography, main anal sex (which he manically downloaded from the internet, constantly asked me for, but I always refused) and that the veneer of his life was all a lie. He didn’t like to or want to work. His parents still supported him to a large degree in his late 30′s.
When my son was only 1 1/2 I threw my ex out for the final time. He went into a drug program because I believed he was advised by his parents and perhaps others that he would lose custody of my son if he did not. A mediator advised that as long as he was in the program and clean and sober, I should give him the custody because the court would anyway, and looking like the alienating parent was not a good move in California divorce court, but that when he went back to his drugs, which was predictable, I could move forward in court at that time.
In the meantime, he had began behaving sexually inappropriately with my son, with the behavior escalating over time until my son was coming home putting objects up his anus and trying to put objects up other children’s anus’, incessantly licking things like he was performing felatio, and coming home very emotionally disturbed from the visits. When asked where he learned that, he would respond “Daddy.” He was speech delayed. The situation got worse, when my ex started beating him to both keep him quiet and I believe now to terrorize me. He was also giving my son drugs/toxic substances which made him very sick. The court had ordered that he be drug tested upon my request. This triggered a mission to punish/terrorize me through my son, and to satisfy his own addictive-perverted sexual needs through the child, who to him, was an extension of me. His goals were to get custody away from me, to control the child, and get child support from me. I am a doctor.
For the purpose of consolodating this story, I was sent to prison, after being railroaded by the Napa court, having my money embezzled through the court and placed in my ex’s lawyers trust fund while I was denied my own money for counsel. I have been denied all visitation. The child,s attorney suppressed evidence my attorney had given to protect my son. The police prosecuted me and suppressed an emergency room medical report calling markings on my son child abuse. Court transcripts were changed to cover up the abuse. I’ve lost my 12-year medical business, my beautiful home, many of my friends who think police officers and judges are honest and really were unable to deal with this situation year after year. But, this is nothing compared to the fact that my son has not been in my life since 2005, and is in the hands of an abusive father. The child’s attorney reports that my son, now 10 1/2, still goes into his father’s bed, has difficulty sleeping at night and is in pain at night from an injury he got while I was serving my prison term. I have photos of my son with a rope around his neck, an activity that took place while he was with his father.
My son and I still have no justice in California.

Amador County, California
In 1993, I ended an 8 year marriage because of my husband’s admitted abuse of the children and me, which included a brutal physical assault on one son.
In 1996, my two daughters (ages 7 & 4) disclosed that their father had been sexually abusing them during court ordered visits, which included acts of rape, sodomy, oral copulation, being shown child pornography, and being forced to re-enact the sex acts depicted. These disclosures were corroborated by the disclosures of their brother (aged 9), physical evidence of penetration in one child, the report of an independent eye witness to the father’s sexual assault of that same child, and raw data test results of the father’s psychological evaluation that matched the test results of 710 incarcerated pedophiles in 9 different studies with 99.98% accuracy. I was found mentally, emotionally, and psychologically healthy in testing and had an impeccable social history.
Although law enforcement substantiated the sexual abuse, the father was not criminally prosecuted and the issue of the children’s safety was relinquished to the family court. The children’s therapists declared to the court that the children would be in danger in their father’s care and fought for their protection.
The court appointed custody evaluator/psychologist disregarded the father’s history of domestic violence, refused to investigate the sexual abuse of the children, alleged that I had coached the children to lie about the abuse due to “parental alienation syndrome,” and recommended the father have sole custody. In a custody trial, the attorney appointed to represent the children filed, and was granted, a motion to suppress all the evidence of the father’s history of domestic violence and child sexual abuse. The evaluator stated in testimony, “Anything the children’s therapists would tell me about them being sexually abused, I would completely ignore.” The children were immediately placed in the father’s sole custody and were prohibited from contact with me, their brothers, and the rest of their maternal family, followed months later by an order limiting them to one hour of supervised visits per week with me only.
The custody evaluator was disciplined by the State Board of Psychology for bias and gross negligence in the case. The judge was removed from the case and was disciplined by the State Commission on Judicial Performance for biased and unlawful conduct. Despite these State findings and disciplinary actions, the family court refused to correct its errors and return custody to me.
In 2003, my son ran away from his father and came home to live with me. He disclosed years of continued abuse of him and his sisters by their father to both CPS and the family court. CPS refused to intervene, and the family court refused to correct its errors and return custody of my daughters to me.
In 2007, I won an appeal. The appellate court instructed the trial court to hear evidence of continued paternal sexual abuse and my son’s testimony about his father’s history of custodial interference and constant attempts to destroy the mother/child relationship. At a new trial, the judge announced that he “didn’t have to” respect the appellate court instruction and ordered my daughters to remain in the custody of their offender. My children were “sentenced to life” with their abuser. Their childhoods were stolen. Our lives were completely destroyed by the family court.

After investigating a couple cases in California, we found that the judges, police, local lawyers, children services, doctors and anyone associated to a custody case involving sexual abuse led to child pornography. Now as we obtained evidence and built our case. I have been attacked through blogs. I was out of town to find everything, I mean everything in my home was taken including case files and evidence of this corruption. My family threatened as well as my self. I have pulled away from the mothers to protect them due to our findings. I will now fight this corruption under ground and we will speak loudly for the mothers who have lost there children for financial gain in the porn industry. A billion dollar industry I might add..
This must be exposed and we must have all the American people sand for these mothers and the children who are being victimized. A National Stand off between the American people who want stand for this any longer and the Family Court System!

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-12-2011, 11:23 PM

another chunk of my imagination.:whistling:

The Amir is simply trying to better your english. He supports the education of Pashtun women.

Amir al Ghaznavi

12-12-2011, 11:26 PM

Alchemist you are an otherwise intelligent man making some very ignorant points in this thread. You seem to think we are stuck between the extremes of the West and the East and that a criticism for the latter is a co sign of the former.

You know very well that when it comes to protection of children the West is infinitely better than the East. Our objective should be retain elements of our culture which are good, with elements of the West which are good to create the best society we can

your arguments re the 13 yr old girl hypothetic is borderline psychotic. You know better than that

^ You find this in the muslim world and I might consider being shamed by you Soldout

graveyardofempires

12-13-2011, 08:00 AM

^
that is extremely disturbing

I'M 15 AND I'VE SLEPT WITH MEN OVER 300 TIMES! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWi3jGyyfRY&feature=related)

IamDZJ

12-13-2011, 08:05 AM

you people are just a bunch of idiots justifying one wrong with the excuse of the other. cows could be taught better but not you people.

graveyardofempires

12-13-2011, 08:10 AM

^
zahrojam with typical non sense as always.
you also said this when the american soldier raped afghan girl,you were mad we were putting up that news.
you felt sympathy for that rapist,what can you expect from a disturb soul hooked up to bollywood trash.

IamDZJ

12-13-2011, 08:16 AM

http://joshpro.edublogs.org/files/2011/04/green-grass-yv3bpd.jpg

here is some typical grass for a typical cow. start grazing.
i also said lots of other things in that post but seems like you picked up that one point from it back from the days when your obsession with the word "rape" was so overwhelming, one couldn't stop you from talking about it if their life depended on it. i do wonder how you managed to get over it....

IamDZJ

12-13-2011, 08:35 AM

No wonder people are locking their children inside the house and keeping them away from your reach. You think like a child molester... You probably are one.

Alchemist

12-13-2011, 08:40 AM

you said that 13 year olds have no inclination towards marriage...
Marriage, in dry sociobiological terms, is "pair bonding".
I used to do volunteer work that involved 7th to 9th grade students and I know for a fact that girls do think about boys and marriage...from a very early age in fact. The mother instinct is alive and well even in little girls that play with doll babies. I am not advocating for child bride marriages, but your arguments against is are invalid and fallacious. (Maybe if you could argue better than a 5th grader I could be pursuaded otherwise)

You seem to be suffering from sort of a psychological disorder for denying this aspect of in your own femininity, dazahroojam. Which might be why you are convinced that your brain has still not developed enough.

Being married young was the norm upto even 50 years ago. When 1 in 2 people do it, then it is normal, not a case of extrems.

But we are not talking about marriages...but atheism and its implications.

The western world adopted secularism and humanism as its source of values. Three centuries later we are seeing the effects of it on their society. They have no "good" in them. If the west excels the rest it's only because they cheated the rest, exploited them, and continue to do so by means of violence. Yet everything they do is inverted on to us - They are the violent ones...the instigators and have always been but they flip it around and say that we are "terrorists" and hate life. They are the ones that objectify their women...but flip it around and say that we are doing so. They are the ones that are sex crazed...but then the atheists here are arguing that if women are veiled men will turn homosexuals...yet in the beaches of florida women are 99% naked and homosexuality rampent. The reason why this kind of nonsense persists is because of mentally colonized fools like yourself who tries to stiffle the discourse with her warped sense of "morality".
Our culture has been around for 1000s of years...we have a history much longer than the west and a heck of a lot of time to run trial and errors. Our society has never been dysfunctional...you suffer from an inferiority complex - Chew on that.
(By the way genius...cows are female)

Alchemist

12-13-2011, 08:47 AM

^ Don't stoop to her level...she'll beat you down there.

IamDZJ

12-13-2011, 08:49 AM

riiiight
Girls playing with dolls definetly translates to them wanting to have sex and mother children. How sick of me not to see it that way.