It would appear that Captaincranky and I are at odds on our opinions. I never said that I saw in this forum that Yamaha's have a bad wrap,although many of the people I ahve talked with havea bad opinion of Yamaha, for some reason. I said that I enjoy playing most Yamahas' vs. most Ibanezs' when it comes to accoustics. I never said one was somehow superior to the other or somehow better than the other. Similarly, it is a fact that Ibanez does use laminates in the production of some of their models, which also is something that I do not prefer over all. I do however own a very nice electric acoustic Ibanez that produces a sweet sound weather plugged in or not. IN MY EXPERIENCE this tends to be the exception rather than the rule with Ibanez when it comes to acoustic guitars that are in the same price range. The point I was trying to make is that no matter what your preference or my preference or anyone else's preference is, the brand of that guitar makes no difference as long as you like the sound it produces.

It would appear that Captaincranky and I are at odds on our opinions. I never said that I saw in this forum that Yamaha's have a bad wrap,although many of the people I ahve talked with havea bad opinion of Yamaha, for some reason. I said that I enjoy playing most Yamahas' vs. most Ibanezs' when it comes to accoustics. I never said one was somehow superior to the other or somehow better than the other. Similarly, it is a fact that Ibanez does use laminates in the production of some of their models, which also is something that I do not prefer over all. I do however own a very nice electric acoustic Ibanez that produces a sweet sound weather plugged in or not. IN MY EXPERIENCE this tends to be the exception rather than the rule with Ibanez when it comes to acoustic guitars that are in the same price range. The point I was trying to make is that no matter what your preference or my preference or anyone else's preference is, the brand of that guitar makes no difference as long as you like the sound it produces.

If somebody comes through here with 200 bucks for a guitar, the standard go to suggestion is the Yamaha FG700.

Nobody has suggested to the TS, he investigate other Ibanez models. In fact, the self same Yamaha was recommended to him.

So, we're not, "at odds", as you put it. You just weren't talking to any Ibanez supporters, Yamaha detractors HERE

I'm practically afraid to even suggest I enjoy playing either one of my Ibanez acoustics.

Are we on the same page that the average, run of the mill Talman is junk?

and even the higher end ones!
truth be told... I have never played an ibanez acoustic myself but judging from the common opinion in here, i probably wouldn't unless i had 5 hours to kill in a music shop instead of 2 or 3. there of course are exceptions to the rule and as you said... opinions are very subjective when it comes to how a guitar should sound. i played some very high end Gibsons on tuesday and couldn't believe the hype they get ! for a bunch of $4-5000 guitars they sounded horrible to me. but that's my opinion, i understand that they are held in a pretty high regard by most.
what it realy comes down to is....yes...Talmans are poo( i haven't tried one of those either but, i'd take a Yammie over it every time)

....[ ]....I played some very high end Gibsons on tuesday and couldn't believe the hype they get ! for a bunch of $4-5000 guitars they sounded horrible to me. but that's my opinion, I understand that they are held in a pretty high regard by most.
what it realy comes down to is....yes...Talmans are poo( I haven't tried one of those

I suspect that Gibson guitars are to professional musicians what high end Canon and Nikons are to professional photographers. You get judged, more than likely, (and no doubt a bit unfairly), on the basis of "you are what you play, or you are what you shoot with".

My "Definately-have-to-try-those" list is getting good ideas from this topic, so shooting back at one of the earliest suggestions, does anyone have hands-on Feedback about the Fender Sonoran ? The reviews seem to be saying it's a good guitar (but hey you never know, could be like the Talman).

proving once again that everyone has their own preferences. the gibson jackson browne makes my personal list as one of the very best sounding guitars i've ever played. and i love the sound of just about any j-45 or gibson jumbo. i don't like the hummingbird, though, and am underwhelmed by some of their smaller guitars, however.

the sonoran definitely sounds better than the talman. given the choice, i would go for the sonoran. it's got a bigger, more resonant body, a solid top and a maple neck - i find adding that brightness from the maple helps fight the boxiness of the laminate back and sides.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeet UK

I just looked in my Oxford English Dictionary and under "Acoustic Guitar", there was your Avatar and an email address!

we have a few here that have them and can offer up some decent advice/reviews of them... ahem...ahem...enter cranky...

Yeah, I'm here. Do you guys want the cheery, "you simply must have one of these, I've never been
happier with anything in my life version", or the unexpurgated warts and all truth?

Anyway I put this computer to sleep, pulled the PS-2 interface keyboard to clean it, and it wasn't detected upon resume. So, we went from straight line keyboard to full M$ split ergonomic and I'm struggling badly..... (USB is hot swappable). Have keyboard, will travel....

Anyway, the thing most people have against the Sororan is its looks. Stratocaster headstock and all that. I like it, but I could only buy a natural finish model, since that's all they offer in LH. Don't know if I'd go all in on the "sea mist blue" or whatever thay call it.

As strange as it is, I think the electronics in my Ibanez' may be a bit better than the straight up all Fishman system in the Sonoran. My Fender went through a couple of batteries seemingly way too soon, and others have mentioned short battery life as well.

The guitar sounds good, has a solid top, and favors a bright Fender tonal philosophy.

The sound board on mine is a bit puffy, and I would like to have a bit more saddle sticking above the bridge. With that said, the guitar is set up fine, it plays well, but I'm still in the process of finding its perfect strings.

Because of the soundboard issue, I backed the string set down to "custom light", (.011 to .052) to shave off a few pounds of tension.

The Fender is a nice size guitar, a smallish dreadnought. (That probably sounds like an oxymoron) But, Fender calls it a "tight dreadnought", and the body is a fair amount smaller than my Crafter 12 string, and its a dread also. (But, the Crafter's case is larger than the aftermarket dread case I bought for the Sonoran. (Whatever that means)).

I know the LH Sonoran is pricier than the RH model, and pricier than a low end Talman.

Couple of things. I especially wouldn't buy a Sonoran if it wasn't electrified. That's from a styling standpoint, as well as my normal prejudice against acoustic only guitars. That Strat headstock look is just too hard to pull off without a cutaway.

In any event, there are solid top Fenders w/mahogany necks less pricey than the Sonoran. That brings the question, would you prefer their sound better, or would you pay for the kitsch factor, and some extra brightness the Sonoran presents.

I'm locked in to certain models because of left handed availability, but you aren't.

If I were going to step into this price range, I'd listen to the solid top Fenders, and Takamine and Yamaha models at competing price points.

So, when all is said and done, I'm happy with my Sonoran, but I'm not touting it as the alpha and omega of AE guitars.

I will say I think it sounds way better than your basic Ibanez AEF18 model, which is all lam, and which is definitely better than a Talman as well.

yep, tried 2 j-45's standard and a custom. they just ddn't click with me. they didn't have the jackson browne model. i just brought up my experience as an example of subjectivity. i knew patti thought very highly of them( expecially the JB) but, i just put them down and went back to trying out the rest.
nice review BTW cranky. i woulda really enjoyed the " i spent my money on it, so i couldn't be wrong" version but oh well....

Also I noticed for this particular one that the "natural" Sonoran is more expensive than the "colored" Sonorans ( they have the most amazing names by the way, Lake Placid Blue ).
Is the natural one a "color" too and just more expensive to apply/more in demand ?

I thought that "not having a color" would spare them the man hours of "applying the coating" to get a color, thus making the guitar cheaper, or am I totally wrong on how these are made ?

hmm... good question..... just checked... ZZounds has them all at the same price.
having swam in Lake Placid recently, i can tell you it ain't the same color ! odd trivia.. the town of Lake Placid sits on Lake flower and Lake placid is outside of town.... go figure.

blue and natural are the same price at guitar center
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender-Sonoran-SCE-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar-107601619-i2247302.gc?source=4WWRWXGP&kpid=107601619'

they probably spray the color in a booth in seconds - the finish does. it may even go on instead of a couple layers of clear finish. the only finish i know of that's fully hand applied except by small builders is french polish, which wouldn't be used by fender as it's time intensive and also more fragile than poly finishes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captaincranky

You could practically use the body of that guitar for a hot tub, couldn't you?

it is just a wee bit deep, isn't it?

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeet UK

I just looked in my Oxford English Dictionary and under "Acoustic Guitar", there was your Avatar and an email address!

Oh ok it's just banking on demand/availability by my shop then, thought there was some hidden guitar lore behind it

Sort of, but not really. The Sonoran went through a "Sonoran > Sonoran II" morph, and a price increase. AFAIK, the pricing anomalies are due to new / old inventory dealer costs.

When I bought mine, M'sF had it listed TWICE on the page. Once at $389.95 and again at 429.95! I called and ordered the $389.95 version, (seemed to make sense), and got all the features advertised for the higher price model.

If you think about, you need better quality wood and veneers to pull off a natural finish, than you do when you paint something. I don't think that's the issue here, but it is a truth you have to deal with in all phases of woodwork in general.

Anyhow, I left out the issue of the 6 in line tuners on the Sonoran. These are repro 60's tuners, they aren't adjustable, and don't have the same bolt pattern as the six singles you might consider buying to replace them. (one day in the future, of course).

It's not really an issue, (or is it), but these tuners are 14:1 ratio, down from the more common 16:1 to 18:1 available nowadays.

And you're welcome for the review.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patticake

they probably spray the color in a booth in seconds - the finish does. it may even go on instead of a couple layers of clear finish. the only finish i know of that's fully hand applied except by small builders is french polish, which wouldn't be used by fender as it's time intensive and also more fragile than poly finishes.

The Sonoran's paint job is listed as polyester (!), not polyurethane.

I suspect that these types of finishes fall pretty much in line with automotive protocols. On an auto, that would be a 3 stage paint job, primer, color base coat, clear coat final.

In the guitar's case, the primer would be omitted, since wood has a higher natural adhesion than metal. So then, base color, then clear for the colored models, just clear for the natural.

proving once again that everyone has their own preferences. the gibson jackson browne makes my personal list as one of the very best sounding guitars i've ever played. and i love the sound of just about any j-45 or gibson jumbo. i don't like the hummingbird, though, and am underwhelmed by some of their smaller guitars, however.

the sonoran definitely sounds better than the talman. given the choice, i would go for the sonoran. it's got a bigger, more resonant body, a solid top and a maple neck - i find adding that brightness from the maple helps fight the boxiness of the laminate back and sides.

The Epiphone EJ200(CE) is on the list too (It's my ceiling price, most expensive guitar I'll maybe try), and from what I have read it's Epiphone's version of the Gibson J200 ( And it's a jumbo model from what I see), kinda looks like the Hummingbird. Anyone has hands-on feedback on this particular model ?
Listened to this gentleman talking about it (youtube.com/watch?v=J6qy-nGbHyA), seems alright.
It's a tad bigger than the Sonoran's Dread body if I understood correctly ?
Imma hop down to the store next week ( It's far away that's why I plan so carefully what to try when I'm there and what not to try )
(

Hey there ... i played the Talman E-Acoustic and really dont like the sound of it - unplugged it s like a tin-box ... too thin and not rich. Now i play the Fender T-Bucket and it sounds very great - even unplugged - a lot of benifit for this price !!!