I don't think all this hub-bub was over the idea of X-drive on all seasons. It's the idea of X-Drive on summer tires.

Yeah, but with the storm, seemed to have morphed into a more general conversation about the storm and how our cars were handling it.. And this was the first chance I had to do any sort of test in mine, albeit not as good a test as I would've liked.

how many seasons do you guys get out of your dedicated winter tires? 1? 2? even 3?

I actually gave a set of winter wheels to my cousin recently from an '02 A4 I had, in '02.. Ran them for probably 12,000 miles, they sat in a shed for several years, gave them to him about 2 years ago and they are still going strong. I would guess about 20,000 or so miles in them by now, 4 seasons and counting, but I'm more impressed there was no tire rot or anything after sitting unused for so long, a good 6 years at least.

I could never put my finger on this issue and what people are thinking. I had 2 S4s (01 and an 06), then I went to my 09 335xdrive. Now waiting on my 13 335i xdrive. Anyhow, my first experience with performance tires + quattro + snow = totally destroyed my right side avus wheels. I slid about 20 feet sideways in a menards parking lot. I was being careless, but that was the end of performance tires in the winter for me regardless of awd. It just didn't make ANY difference. Since then I have had dedicated winters for all the cars.

So, back to this thread, several years ago, I was driving in the snow in my 06 S4, so proud of my winter tires and so confident of my safety and then I started to actually look at the other cars around me and lost that confidence. I saw an M5 with summers, a few corvettes with summers, and the usual smattering of mustang GTs all with the summers. The guy in the newer M5 was stopped at the light right next to me and talking on his phone as we got ready to get on the interstate!?!? It wasn't a lot of snow, but I was kinda mad that these drivers were putting those on the road, especially given the low end power that they could put to those wheels. They were making the same commute I was. So, do you need winter tires or even AWD? - I guess not.

My 09, I actually had summer direzza sport z1 star specs, the factories, and then winter blizzaks. I had the direzzas on one day when it hit the upper 30s and I could tell some loss of feel as they got stiff, but those things were very gummy feeling normally. Felt like you were on gummy bears, but I think they were also only rated for about 12k miles.

I am surprised how little anyone has talked about the verations in tire compounds from winter to summer. The blizzaks DEFINITELY have better ICE grip, yes ice. I think that they add silicates to them to increase friction on ice, but this decreases wear resistance. I am also pretty sure that consumer reports rates ice stopping capabilities of different tires furthering the idea tha tires matter, even when stopping.

Absolutely correct. The biggest difference in winter tires is the compound, not the tread pattern. They are far more compliant at low temps. In fact, you should avoid driving on them for long once the weather warms up as they'll wear very quickly. The tread has many, many "sipes" which are very small and closely spaced channels that aid in the evacuation of water. A little known fact - ice is only slippery because of the boundary layer of water between the ice and the tire (or you feet, etc.). The abundance of tiny sipes, in combination with the very pliable compound are very efficient at getting through the water to the ice itself.

ESPECIALLY when stopping. Good year all seasons on my wife's X3 did just fine getting through thick snow. Stopping and turning in light snow, another story all together. Immediately replaced them with winter set up after a light snow this year. The all/season pirelli's on my F30 seem much better (brand new vs 12k miles on the good-years), but chances are those will be replaced next winter too.

Absolutely correct. The biggest difference in winter tires is the compound, not the tread pattern. They are far more compliant at low temps. In fact, you should avoid driving on them for long once the weather warms up as they'll wear very quickly. The tread has many, many "sipes" which are very small and closely spaced channels that aid in the evacuation of water. A little known fact - ice is only slippery because of the boundary layer of water between the ice and the tire (or you feet, etc.). The abundance of tiny sipes, in combination with the very pliable compound are very efficient at getting through the water to the ice itself.

Great post! Lots of good stuff I never knew. Does water form on the ice surface when the ambient temperature is significantly less than freezing? Is this the reason why driving near freezing temperature is the most dangerous?

Any idea how winter performance tires differ from regular winter tires? I have some PA4 tires and am slightly worried about wear with all these warm days we've had. I went with PA4's instead of LM60's because I heard Blizzak's wear out twice as fast - according to the tire guy at costco (I know not a great source).

Great post! Lots of good stuff I never knew. Does water form on the ice surface when the ambient temperature is significantly less than freezing? Is this the reason why driving near freezing temperature is the most dangerous?

Any idea how winter performance tires differ from regular winter tires? I have some PA4 tires and am slightly worried about wear with all these warm days we've had. I went with PA4's instead of LM60's because I heard Blizzak's wear out twice as fast - according to the tire guy at costco (I know not a great source).

The boundary layer of water is present when temps are right near or above freezing. It also forms when you apply pressure to the surface of the ice at temps below freezing. When temps are well below freezing, say sub 20F there's less of a likelihood to form the film with pressure. Go try sliding around (on your feet, not your car) when it's really cold and you'll notice it's not as slick as you might think.

The WORST case scenario is liquid precipitation (rain) on ice. There's virtually no traction to be had on foot or four wheels.

Winter performance tires give up some of their extreme snow/ice performance in exchange for a more robust compound that will provide decent dry handling. The hardcore snow/ice tires have an extremely soft compound that grips ice well, but don't handle particularly well in dry conditions. And the guy at Costco is not incorrect. They definitely can wear faster, but it really depends on how they're driven.

Great post! Lots of good stuff I never knew. Does water form on the ice surface when the ambient temperature is significantly less than freezing? Is this the reason why driving near freezing temperature is the most dangerous?

Any idea how winter performance tires differ from regular winter tires? I have some PA4 tires and am slightly worried about wear with all these warm days we've had. I went with PA4's instead of LM60's because I heard Blizzak's wear out twice as fast - according to the tire guy at costco (I know not a great source).

Performance winters generally are firmer compound have firmer sidewalls and have a higher speed rating. Not as good in deep snow/ice .
There is a "wear code" on the side of the tire which gives you an idea of life expectancy. Not sure I'd go to /take advice from Costco for anything for my car. I gather Blizzaks are among the best tires available.

After all the abuse I took here, I took time to reevaluate everything. Now bear in mind we have had two storms here, the first occured when this thread was started and the major one we had last week. 15 inches of snow, yes thats major in this part of the world. The first storm must have been like 1 to 2 inches with temps between 28 to 33 F.

The first storm the car handled very well, absolutely no issues except for stopping, but nothing crazy. The second storm, on Friday night, in the thick of it I took my X5 out around 10pm and the car handled it like a tank, zero issues. I am on all seasons on that one. All roads were bad at that stage with very minimal traffic. Did up to 70 mph for a brief moment as I was the only one on the road. On Saturday, around 11am I took the X5 out for about 30 mins on local roads as those were still bad. Temps were around 25F. I then took out the F30 (19 inch staggered perf tires). The car could get up and go but the stopping was SCARY. I only had it out for like 10 mins, which was too long, I then went home and parked it.

On Saturday all major roads were cleared of snow as if nothing happened, by Sunday I was doing 0-60 runs and wondering why the car needs ti change to 3rd gear to get to 60 (sport automatic transmission).

Now here are the key issues from this unnecessarily long post:

1) Given the 1st storm was small, the car can be driven with minimal issues. If I asked If I would create this thread again solely on the basis of the first storm I would say YES.
2) Given the 2nd storm, I would say to hell with the F30, park it and wait for the roads to clear. Given it took less than 24 hours to get this done (as Tsuyoi alluded to earlier), I would say in my neck of the woods there is still nothing wrong with the summers. This is a seperate issue from (1), and I want to be clear on this. Here I am saying winters are an OVERKILL around my area given you only need 24hrs to clear snow after such a major storm. 15 inches in other parts of the world is not a major storm. I also need to point out this is the first major winter storm in a couple of years.
3) Why does the 335i need to change to 3rd gear to get to 60?
4) My opinions are only applicable in my neck of the woods, your situation will be completely different and your experiences are welcome as we can all learn from them.

After all the abuse I took here, I took time to reevaluate everything. Now bear in mind we have had two storms here, the first occured when this thread was started and the major one we had last week. 15 inches of snow, yes thats major in this part of the world. The first storm must have been like 1 to 2 inches with temps between 28 to 33 F.

The first storm the car handled very well, absolutely no issues except for stopping, but nothing crazy. The second storm, on Friday night, in the thick of it I took my X5 out around 10pm and the car handled it like a tank, zero issues. I am on all seasons on that one. All roads were bad at that stage with very minimal traffic. Did up to 70 mph for a brief moment as I was the only one on the road. On Saturday, around 11am I took the X5 out for about 30 mins on local roads as those were still bad. Temps were around 25F. I then took out the F30 (19 inch staggered perf tires). The car could get up and go but the stopping was SCARY. I only had it out for like 10 mins, which was too long, I then went home and parked it.

On Saturday all major roads were cleared of snow as if nothing happened, by Sunday I was doing 0-60 runs and wondering why the car needs ti change to 3rd gear to get to 60 (sport automatic transmission).

Now here are the key issues from this unnecessarily long post:

1) Given the 1st storm was small, the car can be driven with minimal issues. If I asked If I would create this thread again solely on the basis of the first storm I would say YES.
2) Given the 2nd storm, I would say to hell with the F30, park it and wait for the roads to clear. Given it took less than 24 hours to get this done (as Tsuyoi alluded to earlier), I would say in my neck of the woods there is still nothing wrong with the summers. This is a seperate issue from (1), and I want to be clear on this. Here I am saying winters are an OVERKILL around my area given you only need 24hrs to clear snow after such a major storm. 15 inches in other parts of the world is not a major storm. I also need to point out this is the first major winter storm in a couple of years.
3) Why does the 335i need to change to 3rd gear to get to 60?
4) My opinions are only applicable in my neck of the woods, your situation will be completely different and your experiences are welcome as we can all learn from them.

Its TEMPERATURE that is the biggest problem. Don't think youve been following along.

Its TEMPERATURE that is the biggest problem. Don't think youve been following along.

We keep going back and forth with this.

OK, temp is around 25F on the worst of days, which is like 2 weeks in a year in total. Single digits do happen but rarely.

You have to at least acknowledge you were not there when I was driving so you cant then say temp is the problem when I am giving two driving scenarios, one with dry roads and 25-35F temps and safe 0-60 runs after a 15 inch snow storm.

I want to also add I have not read anything on this thread since my last post, I have been very busy and honestly thought this thread was dead since that post.

The real issue is being prepared in the event you're already out on the road when the weather turns crappy and the roads go to hell. Having the luxury of the option to just stay put and wait it out is just that, a luxury. Do you think all of the cars stuck on the LIE during the storm would have gotten stuck in the first place if they had winter tires?

The bottom line is that you need to be ready for anything. You need to be certain you'll be ready for anything and that the car will respond if you need to react to a situation unfolding in front of you.

... You need to be certain you'll be ready for anything and that the car will respond if you need to react to a situation unfolding in front of you.

This is exactly the argument for driving no faster than the speed limit. I remain perplexed that such an imperative is given by some to always having a tenacious grip on the road, while other posters are boasting about powering up to fly at fantastic speeds, which also shaves safety margins razor thin or worse, without getting the same lecture.

This board seems to have a split personality.

Many more BMW crashes come from speed than ice. I enjoy ice skating on slippery tires from time to time, and have never hit anything, and think common sense can deal with ice and slick tires as well as reasonably excessive speeds, and can obviate the need for winter tires most of the time.

This storm was an exception. This much snow isn't always melting in the sun and rain a day later. Did you live in NY a few years ago when it was near crisis with no place to put all the snow there was so much?

The idea you can just park it for a few days assumes you have another vehicle capable of driving in the snow that you don't otherwise need (what if your wife had the X5 out somewhere...). It also assumes you'll never get stuck somewhere when the snow starts or have any emergencies where you need to drive in the snow with the car.

It's all personal preference. How prepared do you want to be... Personally I don't like the idea of not having a capable vehicle in my hands at all times. If the 335 was my weekend car and I had 2 other awd vehicles in the garage, I'd keep summer's on it, and would've skipped the x drive. But then again, if I wanted to keep a 3rd car, the weekend car wouldn't be a sedan

I am riding in the snow in my summer performance tires. They stick just as well as the all seasons on my g37. Unless you are in some area with tons of snow it seems you don't even need all seasons with x drive

Tough crowd!

I'm in NJ too and can't imagine your configuration is a good choice. Do you ever go up or down hills in the winter? There's no way you'd be able to get into my hilly neighborhood with some snow on the ground.

Strongly recommend winter tires- your dealer could probably even store the out of season tire/wheels for you. Think of this as an added investment: both sets of tires will now last longer since they're being used less. Additionally, you'll be safe anywhere or anytime you drive. Win-win.

Lets be frank guys, snow in this region is forecast 3 days in advance, at least. It just doesn't happen like a tornado. You always have at least 3 days notice to get your act together.

Its funny on Saturday I was looking for a parking lot with some snow on it so I could do doughnuts in my X5, I could not find one after midday. Even the parking lots were cleared of snow.

Summer performance will be useless around 2 weeks of the year (in this region). You can rent a car, work from home or just stay put. When there is too much snow you are safest at home anyway even if you drive a Range/Land Rover.

This storm was an exception. This much snow isn't always melting in the sun and rain a day later. Did you live in NY a few years ago when it was near crisis with no place to put all the snow there was so much?

The storm you are referring to is exactly why the roads got cleared really fast last week. No Mayor/Governor wants that to happen on their watch ever again. They were clearing the snow through the night, when I went out at 10pm, there were lots of trucks at work including parking lots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisny

If the 335 was my weekend car and I had 2 other awd vehicles in the garage, I'd keep summer's on it, and would've skipped the x drive. But then again, if I wanted to keep a 3rd car, the weekend car wouldn't be a sedan

Agreed, this set up is temporary, the G37's lease expires in a couple of months