- a guy who turns 19 tomorrow- a girl who turned 14 yesterday- they have sex today

Is this OK?

Yes. Because you are not the morality police and arbitrary laws controlling "minors" as property of their parents are stupid. Alcohol and voting laws based on age are just as irrational. I don't see how a person emerges from the chrysalis of irresponsible child to responsible adult during the 60 seconds between 17 years, 364 days 23 hours 59 minutes and 18 years 0 days 0 minutes. Some 14 year olds are older mentally than some 20 year olds. Base the laws around cognizance, even if it is harder.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^cybrwzrd wants to bang 14 year olds, but is mad he can't legally.

Nah, he's right but for the wrong reasons. It's a 5 year age difference and 5 years isn't a huge gap once you become a teenager and/or adult. You're generally being exposed to the same life experiences at the same time. You have the same interests, etc...

I think statutory rape laws are stupid once you hit high school age (14?). We ask people that age to make decisions that are a lot more important than who they want to have sex with. Decisions that affect their future. Provide proper sex education in middle school and let them have sex with whoever they want once they hit high school.

This doesn't mean I want to have sex with a 14 year old either. It just means that I think people that old should be allowed to make decisions that involve their bodies, etc...

cybrwzrd:muck4doo:cybrwzrd wants to bang 14 year olds, but is mad he can't legally.

^^^^^^Derp.

Mock26:

Got a better and practical way to test on a regular basis every single person within a certain age group to determine who is mature enough to do any given number of activities and who is not?

We test them already for academics. I think this could be done as well.

You really have gone there. So who is going to be the judge if 12/13/or 14 year olds are ready to have sex with an adult? me? You? Obama? States? Congress? I think you are dreaming out a fantasy most the world thinks you are sick for. No matter how much you think teens and pre-teens should be having sex with adults, most the world will never agree with you.

Nah, he's right but for the wrong reasons. It's a 5 year age difference and 5 years isn't a huge gap once you become a teenager and/or adult. You're generally being exposed to the same life experiences at the same time. You have the same interests, etc...

I think statutory rape laws are stupid once you hit high school age (14?). We ask people that age to make decisions that are a lot more important than who they want to have sex with. Decisions that affect their future. Provide proper sex education in middle school and let them have sex with whoever they want once they hit high school.

This doesn't mean I want to have sex with a 14 year old either. It just means that I think people that old should be allowed to make decisions that involve their bodies, etc...

hardinparamedic:FTFA: By accepting the plea deal, Hunt would have been placed on house arrest for two years.

House arrest for two years, no felony conviction, and no requirement to register as a sex offender? I understand the want to fight for a statement, but I have to say that in that position, I might just take the deal.

Seriously? If she gets convicted, she will get virtually no sentence due to political pressure and she will be famous for the rest of her life.

doglover:hammer85: Which as has been posted probably 3 pages worth in this thread, was not the case.

The legal system is broken. Of course the laws on the books aren't ideal. That's why we have trials. Laws suck, people point it out in court, and the courts strike those laws down.

What you have is two teens in the same high school. Close enough. It was legal when they were both underage. It ought to stay legal now. There's people out there right now shooting people down in the streets. That's where the legal system should be focusing its efforts. This? This is between two families. Should not be part of the courts at all.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe the parents of the 14-year-old did try to resolve it between the two families. They told the adults parents what was going on and told them to keep her away from their daughter. Instead, she encouraged the girl to run away for more sex. That's when they called the cops.

angryjd:hardinparamedic: FTFA: By accepting the plea deal, Hunt would have been placed on house arrest for two years.

House arrest for two years, no felony conviction, and no requirement to register as a sex offender? I understand the want to fight for a statement, but I have to say that in that position, I might just take the deal.

Seriously? If she gets convicted, she will get virtually no sentence due to political pressure and she will be famous for the rest of her life.

I dunno... I get the feeling that she's not gonna get off that easy...

We went through this in the last thread. You can be 21 and have sex with a 16 year old, you can be 16 and have sex with a 14 year old, but you can't be 18 and have sex with a 15 year old.

Frankly, if she wins her case, then they should throw out the convictions of everyone else who met that standard. The law isn't written to discriminate against gay relationships. It's only based on age.

bigwf2007:doglover: hammer85: Which as has been posted probably 3 pages worth in this thread, was not the case.

The legal system is broken. Of course the laws on the books aren't ideal. That's why we have trials. Laws suck, people point it out in court, and the courts strike those laws down.

What you have is two teens in the same high school. Close enough. It was legal when they were both underage. It ought to stay legal now. There's people out there right now shooting people down in the streets. That's where the legal system should be focusing its efforts. This? This is between two families. Should not be part of the courts at all.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe the parents of the 14-year-old did try to resolve it between the two families. They told the adults parents what was going on and told them to keep her away from their daughter. Instead, she encouraged the girl to run away for more sex. That's when they called the cops.

which makes them homophobes. The gay community may be dealing itself a deathblow supporting this case in lock step.

You really have gone there. So who is going to be the judge if 12/13/or 14 year olds are ready to have sex with an adult? me? You? Obama? States? Congress? I think you are dreaming out a fantasy most the world thinks you are sick for. No matter how much you think teens and pre-teens should be having sex with adults, most the world will never agree with you.

You have to be a troll. That or you like putting words in other peoples mouths.

cybrwzrd:muck4doo:cybrwzrd wants to bang 14 year olds, but is mad he can't legally.

^^^^^^Derp.

Mock26:

Got a better and practical way to test on a regular basis every single person within a certain age group to determine who is mature enough to do any given number of activities and who is not?

We test them already for academics. I think this could be done as well.

Academics can be pretty accurately and rigidly measured, not so much with maturity. But since you think otherwise, how do you propose to test for maturity? And what criteria do you set for different activities such as sex or voting or drinking or whatever? (Not to mention who gets to decide those criteria!)

You really have gone there. So who is going to be the judge if 12/13/or 14 year olds are ready to have sex with an adult? me? You? Obama? States? Congress? I think you are dreaming out a fantasy most the world thinks you are sick for. No matter how much you think teens and pre-teens should be having sex with adults, most the world will never agree with you.

You have to be a troll. That or you like putting words in other peoples mouths.

You mean apart from an adult admitting that she inserted a finger into her vagina?

How does that constitute abuse? She liked it enough to come back for more.

True story here: my best friend is a parole officer. He deals with people (mostly men) who rape kids. He told me that when he asks them why they do what they do, they all say the same thing: "Hey, don't blame me, they wanted it!"

So kindly go fark yourself, you miserable excuse for a human being.

Seems you just can't think about this topic dispassionately and rationally.

I guess not.

This is clearly not "abuse" and anyone who says that it is, is an idiot. It was consensual sex between two teenagers. The only question is if the 14 year old had the right to consent. I'd say that she did and that she's old enough to make that decision on her own. She would have made the same decision regardless of her partner's age. It just so happens that her partner is over the arbitrary limit that the state assigns. Had her partner been 17 instead of 18 there would be no story here.

My only issue is that the 18 year old is trying to turn this whole thing into some sort of discrimination against gay people. It's not.

Mock26:cybrwzrd: muck4doo:cybrwzrd wants to bang 14 year olds, but is mad he can't legally.

^^^^^^Derp.

Mock26:

Got a better and practical way to test on a regular basis every single person within a certain age group to determine who is mature enough to do any given number of activities and who is not?

We test them already for academics. I think this could be done as well.

Academics can be pretty accurately and rigidly measured, not so much with maturity. But since you think otherwise, how do you propose to test for maturity? And what criteria do you set for different activities such as sex or voting or drinking or whatever? (Not to mention who gets to decide those criteria!)

tinfoil-hat maggie:ciberido: itsaidwhat: You are all missing the point: NOT sending a lesbian to a women's prison is the WIN.

-"Pleeeaaaase don't throw me in that briar 'patch'..

Yes, because what lesbians want more than anything in the world is to be raped in prison.

I'm afraid you just stepped into a world filled with idiocy, welcome to the Fark Zone.

You unlock this door with the key of desperation. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of farts, a dimension of butthurt, a dimension of trolls. You're moving into a land of both narcissism and idiocracy, of squirrel-nuts and bourbon. You've just crossed over into the Fark Zone.

redslippers:cybrwzrd: redslippers:Why? Other than to issue a license to have sex? Do you have no perspective on how stupid and wrong that very premise is?

You want to change the law from protecting children to identifying which ones it would be permissible to diddle?

How on earth is that not disgusting and perverted?

No, I want the law to be changed to not cause stupid situations where an 18, 19, or even 20 year olds will not be prosecuted for having sexual relations with someone from their peer group.

I hate to make an appeal to antiquity here, but hell 4 generations ago no one would have batted an eye at this sort of thing (ignoring than the homosexual nature of it).

I also think that exceptional young adults should be allowed to drink and vote in elections - based on the same reasoning.

So you want to spend millions of dollars so that legal adults won't have to exercise self control?

14 and 18 are NOT close in age. They are not members of the same peer group. Even though they do attend the same school. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

And to what end? So legal adults can act like children and not have to exercise self restraint and respect for others?

Explain to me how they aren't close in age or in the same "peer group." When I was 14 and in high school I had 18 year old friends. We went to the same school, had the same interests, and in some cases even had the same classes. It's been awhile but I clearly remember seniors dating freshmen the whole time I was in HS.

It's a 4 year age difference. Are you trying to tell me that you aren't in the same "peer group" as someone who is 4 years older than you?

Cases like this piss me off because stupid laws are further perverted to punish people who have done nothing wrong. The 18 year old is innocent. She'd be innocent if she was male, female, straight, or gay. She never should have been arrested in the first place as it was clearly consensual sex.

Puckmarin:redslippers: cybrwzrd: redslippers:Why? Other than to issue a license to have sex? Do you have no perspective on how stupid and wrong that very premise is?

You want to change the law from protecting children to identifying which ones it would be permissible to diddle?

How on earth is that not disgusting and perverted?

No, I want the law to be changed to not cause stupid situations where an 18, 19, or even 20 year olds will not be prosecuted for having sexual relations with someone from their peer group.

I hate to make an appeal to antiquity here, but hell 4 generations ago no one would have batted an eye at this sort of thing (ignoring than the homosexual nature of it).

I also think that exceptional young adults should be allowed to drink and vote in elections - based on the same reasoning.

So you want to spend millions of dollars so that legal adults won't have to exercise self control?

14 and 18 are NOT close in age. They are not members of the same peer group. Even though they do attend the same school. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

And to what end? So legal adults can act like children and not have to exercise self restraint and respect for others?

Explain to me how they aren't close in age or in the same "peer group." When I was 14 and in high school I had 18 year old friends. We went to the same school, had the same interests, and in some cases even had the same classes. It's been awhile but I clearly remember seniors dating freshmen the whole time I was in HS.

It's a 4 year age difference. Are you trying to tell me that you aren't in the same "peer group" as someone who is 4 years older than you?

Cases like this piss me off because stupid laws are further perverted to punish people who have done nothing wrong. The 18 year old is innocent. She'd be innocent if she was male, female, straight, or gay. She never should have been arrested in the first place as it was clearly consensual sex.

... with someone who isn't legally capable of giving consent.

So if a five year old child (for whatever reason) consents to sex, everything is A-OK!

WhippingBoy:BarkingUnicorn: The opinions of students at Kaitlyn's high school.

Basically, "It aint no thing."

If we can't trust the opinions of high-school students, who can we trust?

Their opinions are relevant because they directly bear upon the harm that might be done to the "victim." If her schoolmates were outraged, she'd likely be bullied, shunned, persecuted. But they seem indifferent at worst, supportive at best. So there goes another "potential harm" basis for frowning upon this whole thing.

BarkingUnicorn:WhippingBoy: BarkingUnicorn: The opinions of students at Kaitlyn's high school.

Basically, "It aint no thing."

If we can't trust the opinions of high-school students, who can we trust?

Their opinions are relevant because they directly bear upon the harm that might be done to the "victim." If her schoolmates were outraged, she'd likely be bullied, shunned, persecuted. But they seem indifferent at worst, supportive at best. So there goes another "potential harm" basis for frowning upon this whole thing.

Since the victim is the one who is pressing charges, I'd say that the opinions of her schoolmates is irrelevant.

Puckmarin:redslippers: cybrwzrd: redslippers:Why? Other than to issue a license to have sex? Do you have no perspective on how stupid and wrong that very premise is?

You want to change the law from protecting children to identifying which ones it would be permissible to diddle?

How on earth is that not disgusting and perverted?

No, I want the law to be changed to not cause stupid situations where an 18, 19, or even 20 year olds will not be prosecuted for having sexual relations with someone from their peer group.

I hate to make an appeal to antiquity here, but hell 4 generations ago no one would have batted an eye at this sort of thing (ignoring than the homosexual nature of it).

I also think that exceptional young adults should be allowed to drink and vote in elections - based on the same reasoning.

So you want to spend millions of dollars so that legal adults won't have to exercise self control?

14 and 18 are NOT close in age. They are not members of the same peer group. Even though they do attend the same school. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

And to what end? So legal adults can act like children and not have to exercise self restraint and respect for others?

Explain to me how they aren't close in age or in the same "peer group." When I was 14 and in high school I had 18 year old friends. We went to the same school, had the same interests, and in some cases even had the same classes. It's been awhile but I clearly remember seniors dating freshmen the whole time I was in HS.

It's a 4 year age difference. Are you trying to tell me that you aren't in the same "peer group" as someone who is 4 years older than you?

Cases like this piss me off because stupid laws are further perverted to punish people who have done nothing wrong. The 18 year old is innocent. She'd be innocent if she was male, female, straight, or gay. She never should have been arrested in the first place as it was clearly consensual sex.

So you got farked by a bunch of kids 4 years older than you, and you loved it. That must mean 14/15/ and 16 year olds should be ready for the same.

BarkingUnicorn:WhippingBoy: BarkingUnicorn: The opinions of students at Kaitlyn's high school.

Basically, "It aint no thing."

If we can't trust the opinions of high-school students, who can we trust?

Their opinions are relevant because they directly bear upon the harm that might be done to the "victim." If her schoolmates were outraged, she'd likely be bullied, shunned, persecuted. But they seem indifferent at worst, supportive at best. So there goes another "potential harm" basis for frowning upon this whole thing.

Teenagers. Seriously man, seriously. I think we should poll 5 year olds on school menus. I also think we should poll 12 year olds on what math subjects to cover. Your dumb may be rubbing off on me.

WhippingBoy:So if a five year old child (for whatever reason) consents to sex, everything is A-OK!

There's a huge difference between a 5 year making the decision and a 14 year old making the same decision. A 14 year old isn't a child. They are closer to being an adult than a child. Clearly it's not the same situation.

I'm sure you're next comment to me is going to be "At what age should people be allowed to make this decision?" My answer: around 13-14 or whenever you enter high school.

cybrwzrd:muck4doo:cybrwzrd wants to bang 14 year olds, but is mad he can't legally.

^^^^^^Derp.

Mock26:

Got a better and practical way to test on a regular basis every single person within a certain age group to determine who is mature enough to do any given number of activities and who is not?

We test them already for academics. I think this could be done as well.

Psychological testing is not an exact science. In fact, it's not even science. So coming up with a good test for maturity would prove to be impossible. Especially when various groups with agendas get involved (and they will). Image what you'd end up with in a state with a large fundy population (Kansas).

14 and 18 are NOT close in age. They are not members of the same peer group. Even though they do attend the same school. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

I'm not convinced. I was friends with seniors when I was a freshman. We would go to the same bowling alley hang-out, listened to the same music, had elective classes together. We even had sleep-overs. Nobody was concerned about the age gap.

I am not saying the physical relationship between these two was appropriate, but I can see freshmen and seniors being friends and socializing.

You aren't advocating for teen rights. You are advocating for less legal protection from sexual exploitation of children. The fact that you can't see this is baffling.

I see what you are getting at. I just do not agree with it. I have teenagers. My 17 year old is sexually active, and she is learning how to handle it in an adult manner. She is mature enough. Fourteen year olds are still children. They are children just figuring out how to deal with periods and excited about their first crush. Their breasts are still developing. They are still children, just wearing bras and learning how to be responsible enough to make it to class on time. They aren't ready for sex.

WhippingBoy:tinfoil-hat maggie: ciberido: itsaidwhat: You are all missing the point: NOT sending a lesbian to a women's prison is the WIN.

-"Pleeeaaaase don't throw me in that briar 'patch'..

Yes, because what lesbians want more than anything in the world is to be raped in prison.

I'm afraid you just stepped into a world filled with idiocy, welcome to the Fark Zone.

You unlock this door with the key of desperation. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of farts, a dimension of butthurt, a dimension of trolls. You're moving into a land of both narcissism and idiocracy, of squirrel-nuts and bourbon. You've just crossed over into the Fark Zone.

WhippingBoy:BarkingUnicorn: WhippingBoy: BarkingUnicorn: The opinions of students at Kaitlyn's high school.

Basically, "It aint no thing."

If we can't trust the opinions of high-school students, who can we trust?

Their opinions are relevant because they directly bear upon the harm that might be done to the "victim." If her schoolmates were outraged, she'd likely be bullied, shunned, persecuted. But they seem indifferent at worst, supportive at best. So there goes another "potential harm" basis for frowning upon this whole thing.

Since the victim is the one who is pressing charges, I'd say that the opinions of her schoolmates is irrelevant.

The State is pressing charges. The victim is a material witness. You want to talk about the harm that coercion does to a teen? Let's talk about the victim's parents, the cops, and the prosecutor.

muck4doo:Mock26: cybrwzrd: muck4doo:cybrwzrd wants to bang 14 year olds, but is mad he can't legally.

^^^^^^Derp.

Mock26:

Got a better and practical way to test on a regular basis every single person within a certain age group to determine who is mature enough to do any given number of activities and who is not?

We test them already for academics. I think this could be done as well.

Academics can be pretty accurately and rigidly measured, not so much with maturity. But since you think otherwise, how do you propose to test for maturity? And what criteria do you set for different activities such as sex or voting or drinking or whatever? (Not to mention who gets to decide those criteria!)

If the 14 year old will have sex with him, he's okay with it.

I love it when people suggest any type of individual floating scale to replace age-based criteria. In theory it is a great utopian idea where people are judged on their ability, but it is impractical. Also, I wonder what happens when Mr. X, who is 21, is told that he cannot legally drink because he is not mature enough and then learns that his 14 year old neighbor has passed his drinking evaluation and is allowed to drink? They will probably say something along the lines of, "Of course I would be OK with that," but I have a strong suspicion that they would be far, far, far from OK with it. So yeah, so long as they pass all the test it is a great system, but once they fail then they would declare the system broken and unfair.

WhippingBoy:BarkingUnicorn: WhippingBoy: BarkingUnicorn: The opinions of students at Kaitlyn's high school.

Basically, "It aint no thing."

If we can't trust the opinions of high-school students, who can we trust?

Their opinions are relevant because they directly bear upon the harm that might be done to the "victim." If her schoolmates were outraged, she'd likely be bullied, shunned, persecuted. But they seem indifferent at worst, supportive at best. So there goes another "potential harm" basis for frowning upon this whole thing.

Since the victim is the one who is pressing charges, I'd say that the opinions of her schoolmates is irrelevant.

Puckmarin:WhippingBoy: So if a five year old child (for whatever reason) consents to sex, everything is A-OK!

There's a huge difference between a 5 year making the decision and a 14 year old making the same decision. A 14 year old isn't a child. They are closer to being an adult than a child. Clearly it's not the same situation.

I'm sure you're next comment to me is going to be "At what age should people be allowed to make this decision?" My answer: around 13-14 or whenever you enter high school.

Brostorm:BarkingUnicorn: WhippingBoy: BarkingUnicorn: The opinions of students at Kaitlyn's high school.

Basically, "It aint no thing."

If we can't trust the opinions of high-school students, who can we trust?

Their opinions are relevant because they directly bear upon the harm that might be done to the "victim." If her schoolmates were outraged, she'd likely be bullied, shunned, persecuted. But they seem indifferent at worst, supportive at best. So there goes another "potential harm" basis for frowning upon this whole thing.

Teenagers. Seriously man, seriously. I think we should poll 5 year olds on school menus. I also think we should poll 12 year olds on what math subjects to cover. Your dumb may be rubbing off on me.

You, too, are ignoring the point. It's not about the validity of the classmates' opinions.

Puckmarin:WhippingBoy: BarkingUnicorn: WhippingBoy: BarkingUnicorn: The opinions of students at Kaitlyn's high school.

Basically, "It aint no thing."

If we can't trust the opinions of high-school students, who can we trust?

Their opinions are relevant because they directly bear upon the harm that might be done to the "victim." If her schoolmates were outraged, she'd likely be bullied, shunned, persecuted. But they seem indifferent at worst, supportive at best. So there goes another "potential harm" basis for frowning upon this whole thing.

Since the victim is the one who is pressing charges, I'd say that the opinions of her schoolmates is irrelevant.

The victim isn't pressing charges. Her parents are.

My understanding was that the victim was the one who was pressing charges. My apologies if this is not the case.