No one likes us. Do we care?

Sticky question

By The Bard of BD23
August 14 2019

The recent revelations about our club and the machinations that have ensured our continuing existence (at least into the forthcoming season) have left us with the unwanted title of the most hated club in the UK. Indeed the fans of some of our rivals are suggesting that we are not really a club at all. So the question that really needs answering is do we really care what other people think?

We appear to lead a charmed, if somewhat precarious life. To have survived the financial meltdown that we had last season without any sort of penalty (from the RFU) is miraculous. The laws of libel prevent me from repeating other suggestions concerning our survival. One thing is certain - the RFU has bent over backwards to keep us in existence. There is a perception, amongst the fans of other clubs, that the rfu has a master plan to have a premiership club in Yorkshire and that is why we are still in the Championship, with no points deduction albeit with no players either. An unpopular fact which has helped to generate the waves of vitriol washing over LS6 at the moment. Personally I am uncomfortable with this idea. Conversely I am happy that there is still the prospect of going to games at Headingley next season.

The issue with the unpaid medical bills was a deal-breaker for me. It smacked of sharp practice and has left a bad taste in my mouth. However it has now (I believe) been settled. Move on.

The next factor in our rise in unpopularity is our current recruitment campaign. On this I am with the other supporters who, rightly, point out that we have suffered greatly over the years. The lifespan of a rugby player is all too brief. If we are paying a few quid more than another club in the region then it is natural for a player to want to maximise his income from rugby given that he does not know when that source of money will no longer be available. I considered the ethics of "poaching" contracted players. It is, in my opinion, unethical but until it is stopped by the game's governing body everybody does it. Move on.

We will, I am sure, be heavily reliant on dual registered players this season as we will not be able to muster a 32 man squad in the remaining weeks before the season starts. The smaller clubs in the Championship (we need to get used to the fact that we are one of them) have always relied on this method of strengthening their squads. Some cynics suggest that Hartpury stayed up at the expense of Richmond by astute use of DR players from 2 local prem clubs.

So there you have it. The club survives for now. We are unpopular. Many rugby fans think that the club should have been wound up. Others, like myself who have bought into the idea of the Tykes want the club to survive. These are lean times. A long hard winter awaits us. No one likes us. Who cares?

Well balanced article WW. To the best of my belief, the club paid all players' salaries for last season plus the medical bills (eventually), so we paid in full for the 6th place we gained. The broken promises for future commitments are very messy, and have caused genuine hardship to some. Plus we have had to make redundant staff and long-term players have been let go.
All caused by one financial issue. A major one.
I do not believe that the players who were brought in from NZ and elsewhere were lured here under false pretences, this would implicate Chris Stirling in a sting that he just wouldn't do IMHO.

The rfu have been sympathetic, but no doubt we will be staring relegation in the face this season. I have thought long and hard about what has gone on, and just about feel OK to continue my support of the club. Equally it is perfectly understable if other supporters (or even supporters of other clubs) feel that the club should have folded, or been forced to close down by a rfu points deduction.

'Glass houses' comes to mind with regard to derided actions attributed, rightly or wrongly, to Carnegie.
The running of a professional rugby club is largely a similar practice throughout, so just because these have not become common knowledge does not mean they don't happen!

My feelings very similar to yours on the medicals. Very glad that’s sorted (however it was done)

Player recruitment- yes it’s been done to us but not (I don’t think) this close to the season. That said no-one has actually joined yet from other Yorkshire clubs (that we know of) and players can say no. I imagine it would be quite a leap of faith for any player who is contracted elsewhere to burn their bridges and join YC - given all the reasons highlighted in your post.

Absolutely we have to accept we are one of the smaller clubs (arguably I would say we were at the beginning of last season too- the league table certainly said so) Success this season would be 11th. Going to be a tough season but we’re still here (and I doubted we would be) so let’s hope it can be more about the rugby going forward.

Good point Gel, I have experienced similar when requesting a RU game on the TV in a pub. Even when nothing else on I just know I am going to get grief.

But back to the subject. When I used to work (the "lost" 40 years) there was always talk about the culture of the business. This was made clear to me when my company was the subject of a takeover from another company with a much inferior culture, and all the good people left (only duffers like me stayed).
Carnegie have a management culture that is IMHO a clinical business one. I think there is general agreement that we would like to see a more collaborative, open culture and I think Chris Stirling would have cemented this had circumstances been different.

A management culture that is a clinical business one? After all that has occurred I find that incredible!
Head in sand syndrome! Next GH and the rest are to be nominated as business men of the decade for successfully bringing us to the brink of extinction. Why not!

I suggested that the RFU may have bent over backwards for us, possibly to maintain a more even geographical spread of "higher" level rugby, earlier on another thread. The idea didn't seem to get much support at the time.

At one of the open days at Kirkstall arranged by CS Geech did say that the RFU would "love" to have a premiership team in Yorkshire. So who knows?

I've said previously that I'm not particularly proud of some of the places the Carnegie management have gone to to ensure survival.

The backlash from former players on Twitter is entirely justified.

But much, in fact I'd say the vast majority, of comment on Twitter, Rolling Maul etc is based on supposition, rumour and assumptions that are simply not true and made by people who have no clue what has gone on and are obviously too lazy to research anything before posting ill thought out and groundless comments.

I have every sympathy for the players and staff of last season, they have been treated appallingly. But those under informed, lazy haters on their social media platform of choice can f#&k right off.

I'm purposely asking irritating Qs of two idiots on Twitter this am and have been called a 70 year old has-been and a disgrace. Love it when people resort to insults when they can't justify themselves. Not sure why I am disgrace - I've yet to be told why.

Seems Richmond shouldn't have been relegated - shouldn't have lost so much matches then. Though TBH Hartpury's ringers have a lot to answer for.

leemingtykeI've said previously that I'm not particularly proud of some of the places the Carnegie management have gone to to ensure survival.
The backlash from former players on Twitter is entirely justified.

But much, in fact I'd say the vast majority, of comment on Twitter, Rolling Maul etc is based on supposition, rumour and assumptions that are simply not true and made by people who have no clue what has gone on and are obviously too lazy to research anything before posting ill thought out and groundless comments.

I have every sympathy for the players and staff of last season, they have been treated appallingly. But those under informed, lazy haters on their social media platform of choice can f#&k right off.

The problem of renaming to Yorkshire was driven by Geech not getting the other feeder clubs to publicly acknowledge that they working in partnership with YC. If regional clubs involved had agreed publicly that they were part of a joint partnership with YC it would have substantiated the Yorkshire title.

Only to add why waste energy caring what other club fans think. I feel for the lads from last year and the coaching team that was in place. But that has gone and we (the club) are doing what we can to get a team out that, I hope, will be able to compete. The energy has to be about supporting our club in the future

Oh Dear! It seems that there are still those that believe in Fairy Godmothers! As a child I soon discovered that, like Father Christmas bearing gifts, they do not exist. Time to grow up and leave those myths behind. Get real!

Are you having a go at London Welsh, Bobba? They told everyone that a Fairy Godmother (somewhere in California I seem to recall) was going to back them big time. Surprise, surprise, after signing the best Championship players on offer, they just folded, leaving the Championship mid-season with a team short and annulling the results of matches already played.

Because they were a "traditional" team with a great history they are somehow beyond criticism, apparently.

On the contrary Almost. I loved my trips to Richmond and London Welsh. I have many fond memories from those days. And yes they messed up. Moving from their traditional ground of The Old Deer Park was perhaps the start of their downfall. And yes, hoping for a "Fairy Godmother" bailing them out was another mistake. Taking on the RFU through the courts was yet another probable mistake. They made a rod for their own backs, so not really surprising that things went turtle! Sad but true. It does not however stop the memories of good times had!

As far as our Club (call it what you will) is concerned. The rot started a long time ago. You defend Mr Wright saying that he was stabbed in the back. There was no Brutus involved here. As a business man going into a refinancing situation. he will not have gone into it with his eyes closed. With the advice he no doubt had he will have known what that entailed. If he did not, then he was either very naïve or very stupid. I don't believe that for a moment!

Lets go back a little further. Once the Club failed to return to the Premiership and the Parachute payments were diminishing, money was being taken out of the Club as repayment of so called loans. Do you not think that will have had an adverse effect on the finances of the Club resulting in, eventually the club being sold, "debt free" to the current owners. Debt free or bankrupt? You tell me! The current directors then entered into an agreement whereby they were committed to remain at Headingley for the next ten years. At the same time, because the Directors were not experienced in how to run a professional rugby union club, Gary H was asked to step in as Chief Executive to do this for them. The commercial Director was another employee of Leeds Rugby and Rhinos who was to look after our interests. That worked out well, did it not!

You often refer to your conversations with various people. I too recall a conversation with David Dockray at our away match in Newlyn. Yes Geech had a vision of a Yorkshire Club, with Yorkshire playing staff that would in due course be supplying England with a multitude of players, and so our name changed. Sorry, not quite that simple and straightforward. David Dockray told me and others present, that the name change was effectively forced on the Club by Satsuma, a subsidiary company of Provident Finance a staunchly Bradford organization, who refused to back us if we had "Leeds" in our name. I have also sat down next to Gary Hetherington, with a few supporters present and a lot of what was promised never happened. So when employees come out with their party lines, it's foolish to accept what they say as Gospel.

As it is we have a Club that has let down its players, coaches, backroom staff and supporters. Despite this you continue to be bullish about the Club. You refer to the actions of London Welsh annulling results. Well I wonder how many we will annul this coming season. To date, with the season just round the corner and fixture lists already confirmed, we have six or so players signed up. I wonder how that will go down when the Magnificent Six turn out at our first fixture.

Finally, My apologies to Billy Ba and others who asked me to "give it a rest". I did say I would do so but sometimes, in the face of blind optimism it is time to take off those blinkers!

SideStepCompletely with you Bobba. As I imagine are the majority of the longterm (longsuffering) fan base.
If we could have just held on against Northampton in 2011 how things could have changed!!!

Sadly , missed that match. Unfortunately, having a detached Achilles tendon, I was sat at home, listening in disbelief, as we went 0-21, up only to throw the match. How we could have done for a single bonus point! That's consigned to history now. And we all know what happened next!

Bobba........To date, with the season just round the corner and fixture lists already confirmed, we have six or so players signed up. I wonder how that will go down when the Magnificent Six turn out at our first fixture. .......

Bobba has touched on an interesting point here. How many players do we need to sign? How many DR players are we allowed? How many loanees can we field? As things stand we have six players signed. Will the rest of the number needed come as DR or loanees?

almostatykeHope everything goes well with your forthcoming second Archilles operation Bob. At least you know what to expect this time.
And you won't be missing much at Headingley, for sure, so good timing.

its totally staggering that the club puts out no official news for nearly two weeks and expects the supporters to fall in behind the new regime , without a care in the world. No official news just leads to more speculation. These are the same supporters you will need to put their money through the turnstiles every 2 weeks. It would seem even the local papers cant be bothered with covering this story.

bigm/ mark harrison.its totally staggering that the club puts out no official news for nearly two weeks and expects the supporters to fall in behind the new regime , without a care in the world. No official news just leads to more speculation. These are the same supporters you will need to put their money through the turnstiles every 2 weeks. It would seem even the local papers cant be bothered with covering this story.

Totally agree. Whatever happened in the past, there is no need to continue the communications black-out policy. Even if there is no good news to announce they should keep us on-board by regular timely updates of what work is in progress. I made an invitation to Martyn Wood on this messageboard and does not reflect well that it has been ignored.

I've heard there is a deadline in place, I can't remember what it is but it's fairly soon, that if a squad list is not submitted to the league then YC's place is withdrawn. Seems reasonable under the circumstances, but not sure what the knock-on effect will be further down the pyramid.

We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment.
We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals.
We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards.
If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing
abuse@sportnetwork.net