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It'd definitely be useful but also I think it wouldn't change where things are currently situated, because SR is in OU, and Volcarona is weak to SR x4 but yet it's still in there, soo. :x Another hazard would be fun to abuse/hate competitively though.

__________________

it's not always black and white but your heart always knows what's right #TeamUnovaI'm paired with and in love with Frizy ♥

Yeah, Stealth Rock can kind of act as a makeshift Stealth Ice? A lot of the the things that are weak to ice are weak to rock anyway(mainly flyers, bug types, things of that nature). I dunno, I feel that SR in itself has enough coverage as it is, and anything that is resistant to it can be hit by spikes, so yeah. :x

Spell Trap: "The user chanted a mystical spell at the enemy's team", so this entry hazard puts the foe to sleep upon entering the battle, this is a one-off so it will only put one pokemon to sleep.
PP = 10/10

Coal Shot: "The user shoots blazing hot coal around the enemy's feet!", you can guess what this does, this entry hazard burns the foe upon entering the arena. Like spell trap this is a one-off, however you can use the move twice to burn 2 different foes, or 3 times to burn 3 foes, etc.

Mines: "The user lays small mines around your enemy's feet", this hazard will always deal 1/16 damage no matter how many times you use it. When the mines explode, they also confuse the target.

This move does the same damage to yourself as it does to the user, so basically you're attacking yourself with this powerful move, as well as the foe. So this is a last-resort move. See? Nothing is overpowered if you have the correct side-effects.
Personally, I think Earthquake is overpowered. It does 100 damage, 100% accuracy, hits everyone on the opposing team, and is super-effective against 5 different types. The best thing about this move is that it has no side-effects, good or bad. That is why Earthquake is considered the best move ever - because it is powerful, reliable, and has no side-effects.
Hyperbeam and explosion seem really powerful at first glance, but their side-effects are just horrible, making them bad moves despite their overwhelming power.

You're using a Tyranitar with 4% HP and your foe has a Blissey with 15% HP.
You have a Staraptor with 23% HP, but your foe used SR and Switching would be useless.
Tyranitar has SR, useless; Pursuit, no PP left; Crunch, disabled; and Triple Edge.
Anyways you're going to die, Triple Edge's massive power would faint her and with Staraptor left you'll win.

Entry hazards of different types. This would stop Stealth Rocks from being such a huge determining factor in which tier pokemon are found. As for the comment about what isn't hit by stealth rocks is hit by spikes, I find that it's still unbalanced. Spikes can't really do significant damage unless you put down 2 or 3 layers, compared to stealth rocks having the potential to take 1/2 hp with only 1 turn of set up. It makes any pokemon with a weakness to rock a huge liability.

This would cover a lot of weaknesses and resistances pretty evenly, only leaving 5 types (normal, fighting, ghost, psychic and dark) without a weakness to any of them, and fighting being the only type of those 5 with a resistance to any of them (stealth rocks). Considering fighting types don't have much going for them (almost all of their moves are physical), I think it's an okay advantage.

Edit: I forgot that spikes was already a ground type attack. I doubt they would changes the mechanics of it, so maybe replace burst clay with a fire type attack. This would add poison types to the group with no weaknesses and 1 resistance but poison too is a group in need of some major upgrades.

Spell Trap: "The user chanted a mystical spell at the enemy's team", so this entry hazard puts the foe to sleep upon entering the battle, this is a one-off so it will only put one pokemon to sleep.
PP = 10/10

Coal Shot: "The user shoots blazing hot coal around the enemy's feet!", you can guess what this does, this entry hazard burns the foe upon entering the arena. Like spell trap this is a one-off, however you can use the move twice to burn 2 different foes, or 3 times to burn 3 foes, etc.

Mines: "The user lays small mines around your enemy's feet", this hazard will always deal 1/16 damage no matter how many times you use it. When the mines explode, they also confuse the target.

Hmmm. Sleeping I don't really think will come, but the burning/paralysis around your feet definitely sounds good, although I'm not quite sure they're ready to move into side effects from entry hazards other than TSpikes.

__________________

it's not always black and white but your heart always knows what's right #TeamUnovaI'm paired with and in love with Frizy ♥

Spell Trap: "The user chanted a mystical spell at the enemy's team", so this entry hazard puts the foe to sleep upon entering the battle, this is a one-off so it will only put one pokemon to sleep.
PP = 10/10

Coal Shot: "The user shoots blazing hot coal around the enemy's feet!", you can guess what this does, this entry hazard burns the foe upon entering the arena. Like spell trap this is a one-off, however you can use the move twice to burn 2 different foes, or 3 times to burn 3 foes, etc.

Mines: "The user lays small mines around your enemy's feet", this hazard will always deal 1/16 damage no matter how many times you use it. When the mines explode, they also confuse the target.

I like the sound of coal shot, tesla spikes and a variation of mines without dealing any damage. An entry hazard that guarantees not being able to attack is a bit too much in my opinion (sleep and freeze)

*sigh* I didn't write 1 / 6 damage, I wrote 1 / 16 damage. One sixteenth NOT one sixth!

Quote originally posted by brica8:

I like the sound of coal shot, tesla spikes and a variation of mines without dealing any damage. An entry hazard that guarantees not being able to attack is a bit too much in my opinion (sleep and freeze)

Yea spell trap seemed too powerful, I didn't even think of a freeze hazard because freeze is one of the most overpowered status ailments - that's why GameFreak hasn't made a freezing status moves (as of yet).

Sorry about that, I was sleepy when I wrote that.
How about a move called Tsunami with 150 power and 60 percent accuracy. They could make it Kyogre's signature move (Mewtwo got a signature move last generation so maybe other important legends will too) ...oh and Super Earthquake for Groudon with 120 power with 100 percent accuracy or maybe Super Volcano (Fire) with 150 power and 100 accuracy. Both moves take a turn to charge. Both moves learned somewhere between lv 70-100.

Oh and Suicune too, something like Crystal dance which works as a ice version of Quiver dance.

Over the generations we've seen a lot more powerful but less accurate moves coming around, and I think it's due for some other types. I think a Dark-typed 120 base power move would be cool, and same with Steel. Maybe a more powerful physically-based Ghost-type move would be cool too.

Hm, I think when people think about new moves that will drastically change the metagame, we need to think simple. Just think about how simple moves like U-Turn and Stealth Rocks were and just how much they changed the game. The shiny new move that shakes up the metagame will be so simple it will blow our mind. Sooo let me bring up the topic of new hazards again.

While moves like 'electric spikes' and 'stealth fire' will change the meta, it does so by removing the niche of other pokemon. Let me propose something different: aggressive hazards.

I think this has been proposed before about entry hazards of different types, but instead of a long term presence stealth rock or the spikes have, aggressive hazards would be used for intense, short term pressure. For my example, I will use charcoals as a 'stealth fire' like move or icicles as a 'stealth ice' type of move.

These moves would do 25% on the switch in on the first turn after, 18% on the second, 12% the third, 6% the fourth, and 3% the fifth. The purpose of these moves would be to put pressure on the opponent and halt their momentum. This would allow the user to have a short window to move more freely. Sure, the oppenent could try to switch his Forretress or Ferrothorn on the first move after charcoals, but then they would be just sacking it from the 4x25%=100% damage. It would force them to wait, giving the user time to set up, bring out a choice user, clear the hazards on your side, etc.

Icicles would also be nice because it would buy you time from dragons that would want to set up on you or ground types that would want to counter your electric type.

The damage drop off per turn would be easy to explain as icicles 'melt' and charcoals 'cool off.' Also, stealth rocks and the spikes would still have their place for long term hazard damage. You wouldn't want to keep throwing your fire or ice type out to put up these hazards as it would be waste of a move. Aggressive hazards would exist to buy yourself a single opportunity.

I'm not sure if a move like this would be in the next game, however, I believe another move could be modified to fill this role. Future sight could be modified to 140 BP and hit the next turn instead. This would allow the user to get a turn to switch in or give an attack when the opponent needs to decide which pokemon he wants to take the hit. Again, I doubt something like this would happen in the game. However, I think the concept is worth thinking about.

I have another thought -- what about self-statusing moves; where you burn yourself as a drawback or something? For example, a base 140 physical fire move that burns you is pretty interesting - it'd be a physical dragon meteor, more or less. A Special move that burned you wouldn't need to be very powerful - a 100 base special flamethrower that burned you might actually see lots of play, as burning a special attacker protects it from other status... add in psycho-shift and similar moves/abilities, and self-status moves might just be obscene.

I feel like aggressive hazards would almost be just...awkward. You have to waste three turns to get something that only lasts temporarily (One to switch-in, one to set it up, and the last to more than likely switch out again to use the Pokémon you want to set-up). At the same time these could almost be (it's such a buzz word but I can't think of anything better) centralizing to the metagame. Almost like they'd be relied upon to set something up. Of course you wouldn't NEED to, but it'd be much easier to set up something like Dragonite/Salamence/<insert dragon here> with Charcoal up, as their best counters are Steel types. If something is losing 50 percent of it's health switching in (assuming it's just 2x super effective) WITHOUT taking other hazards into affect just seems overpowered as heck. I mean the self-diminishing concept seems like a good way to balance it out, but after the first initial switch-in it's not going to matter much.

To even beat that you would almost have to run ridiculous sets. Scarf Starmie would resist both examples you gave and be able to Rapid Spin them (assuming they're able to be spun away) or outspeed them and hopefully KO them with Ice Beam (Just using the example I gave), or maybe Scarf Gengar with HP Ice (Again, assuming Levitate bypasses them), but even then you're forced to run something with a Scarf to either KO or knock away the hazards, not both. Just seems overpowered to me.

However, on moves that could inflict status upon yourself after using them, I can see that as viable, but unless that thing has Guts or Toxic Heal or something it's almost useless.

I'll like a Dark version of Giga drain, one that looks sinister and deprives the victim of their hp and gives them to the user. Or maybe even a Dark version of leech seed...maybe something like Deep Darkness (which hurts the pokemon and gives the user the life energy being seeped out). Hope that's not too eerie for a pokemon game...

I was reading this thread earlier, and I have been trying to organize my thoughts for the past few hours and figure out how I want to share them, but so far my efforts have been unsuccessful. So, I will just put them out there, regardless of how scattered they are.

- A new Pokemon game on a new system affords Game Freak the perfect opportunity to overhaul the move set system.

- I feel Game Freak needs to innovate in the area of move sets and to redesign the move sets of every Pokemon, in spite of the practical difficulties of such an undertaking.

- One area that needs special attention is the suitability of the moves each Pokemon learn for their stats and their type. For example, Flareon has a much higher attack than special attack, yet it does not learn a single physical Fire move. Another example is Zigzagoon (and other Normal types, such as Clefairy, Zangoose, and Audino), who can learn Ice Beam, Blizzard, Thunder Bolt, Thunder, Shadow Ball, and Surf, among other moves, in spite of the fact there are no good reasons a Tiny Raccoon species should be able to learn such moves.

- There should be signature moves for the starter Pokemon and for legendaries to distinguish them from other Pokemon and to preserve their uniqueness.

- A better balance needs to be struck between moves used primarily for in-game play and moves used primarily for competitive play. My perception is that, since Ruby and Sapphire, Game Freak has been placing increasing emphasis in their games on competitive play than the in-game experience. With the prevalence of wireless connectivity today, this emphasis is understandable; but for people like me - who prefer completing the story and simply raising Pokemon more than battling competitively - a better balance would be welcome.

- There need to be better TMs, and Gym leaders should hand out more special TMs. For example, why not have Cheren hand out Return; Roxie, Poison Jab; Burgh, X-Scissor; Elesa, Thunder Bolt; Clay, Earthquake; Skyla, Aerial Ace; Drayden, Dragon Pulse; and Marlon, Water Pulse?

- For those who say there are not enough moves for certain types, such as Dark, Steel, and Dragon, you have to consider that those types are less common than many other types, so naturally there are going to be fewer moves for those types. Moreover, for those who say that Dark needs to have more powerful attack moves, consider that the Dark type is about strategy, so you should expect more strategic moves for that type than offensive moves. I think Dark Pulse and Night Slash are sufficiently powerful moves for the Dark type.

- All the Pokemon stats need to be recalibrated, including the attack and special attack stats. The power is getting out of hand, and the accuracy of many moves is diminishing. I would like to see more balanced moves.

These are just general observations and thoughts, nothing too specific. I am sure I could come up with more upon further reflection.

I agree entirely! There was nothing really in the previous generations just for the starters and something to make them stand out is awesome. Legendaries normally have that but not for all. If there was a choice between legendaries and starters, I'd go with the starters really because I think there's so much potential for awesome moves. Something involving nuts, tails and bubbles I definitely see as possible for them!

__________________

it's not always black and white but your heart always knows what's right #TeamUnovaI'm paired with and in love with Frizy ♥

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