_________________Champions are made from something they have deep inside of them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have the skill & the will but the will must be stronger than the skill. Muhammad Ali

_________________Champions are made from something they have deep inside of them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have the skill & the will but the will must be stronger than the skill. Muhammad Ali

I can't help feel that would be a bit like out of the frying pan and into the fire for Alonso, two presently struggling teams which one would you pick?

Personally I think McLaren Honda's potential is better than Renault's certainly at least in the short term, maybe given Alonso's recent record it would be better if he didn't have the choice.

Given his penchant for jumping from the frying pan into the fire maybe he should allow someone else choose for him, that is if he has a choice.

_________________Champions are made from something they have deep inside of them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have the skill & the will but the will must be stronger than the skill. Muhammad Ali

I can't help feel that would be a bit like out of the frying pan and into the fire for Alonso, two presently struggling teams which one would you pick?

Personally I think McLaren Honda's potential is better than Renault's certainly at least in the short term, maybe given Alonso's recent record it would be better if he didn't have the choice.

I could see it happening. While they are two presently struggling teams, only one of those teams has just been fully purchased by a manufacturer, who will now be putting their full support behind it. And they already beat McLaren this year whilst on a tiny shoestring budget. Renault will certainly be in transition next year and won't be challenging for titles, but nor will McLaren. I don't see any reason to say that Honda has more potential - why would that be? Honda last won a constructors championship in 1991 - Renault have won 12 since then. On the chassis side, Team Enstone have won 3 since then, all with Renault engines, while amazingly McLaren have won just one, with a Mercedes engine. I don't think either team is a particularly great prospect for 2016, but come 2017 I suspect Renault might be looking stronger than McLaren.

Renault will want their brand associated with a big name driver, and Alonso will remember the championships he won with them. For McLaren's part, it's an utter waste paying huge sums of money Alonso to drive an increasingly sponsorless car around at the back and make occasional critical comments that gets them a bunch of bad press, when they have some fantastic young drivers on their books, who could be growing with the team during this period. I could see the wisdom of them allowing Renault to buy out Alonso's contract, allowing them to put more money into development, and to put Vandoorne in the driver seat to allow him to develop towards being a more complete driver when they are ready to challenge for titles a few years from now.

I can't help feel that would be a bit like out of the frying pan and into the fire for Alonso, two presently struggling teams which one would you pick?

Personally I think McLaren Honda's potential is better than Renault's certainly at least in the short term, maybe given Alonso's recent record it would be better if he didn't have the choice.

I could see it happening. While they are two presently struggling teams, only one of those teams has just been fully purchased by a manufacturer, who will now be putting their full support behind it. And they already beat McLaren this year whilst on a tiny shoestring budget. Renault will certainly be in transition next year and won't be challenging for titles, but nor will McLaren. I don't see any reason to say that Honda has more potential - why would that be? Honda last won a constructors championship in 1991 - Renault have won 12 since then. On the chassis side, Team Enstone have won 3 since then, all with Renault engines, while amazingly McLaren have won just one, with a Mercedes engine. I don't think either team is a particularly great prospect for 2016, but come 2017 I suspect Renault might be looking stronger than McLaren.

Renault will want their brand associated with a big name driver, and Alonso will remember the championships he won with them. For McLaren's part, it's an utter waste paying huge sums of money Alonso to drive an increasingly sponsorless car around at the back and make occasional critical comments that gets them a bunch of bad press, when they have some fantastic young drivers on their books, who could be growing with the team during this period. I could see the wisdom of them allowing Renault to buy out Alonso's contract, allowing them to put more money into development, and to put Vandoorne in the driver seat to allow him to develop towards being a more complete driver when they are ready to challenge for titles a few years from now.

Well first of all Lotus beat McLaren because the Honda engine was rubbish and let's not forget they had the Mercedes engine, in 2014 with the Renault engine Lotus managed to score 10 points, this year with the even worse Honda engine McLaren scored 27 points.

I have no doubts that over the winter Honda will make massive gains whereas Renault have been treading water, that's why I see more initial potential with Honda.

I too like the idea of Alonso going to Renault in 2017 and Vandoorne taking his place at McLaren, this however doesn't mean that would be the best move for Alonso himself.

Honda knows where they are going wrong, they just had to wait out the season.Renault, on the other hand, made no progress from 2014 to 2015 ( In fact, they pretty much went backwards ). I wouldn't have much faith that they have any more of an idea now.

Alonso should stay at McLaren.

_________________Any and all opinions are my own, they do not reflect the opinions of the FIA, FOM, Teams, Drivers, PlanetF1, Phase of the Moon, Rotation of the Earth or Aliens.

I can't see why Fernando would want to go to Renault. I think McLaren has a good plan and people in place to make the more immediate impact and performance jump. I don't see that with Renault...........power train is too far behind and the aero cannot be as good as the McLaren effort will be.

Almost 5 months without posting here... Guys, what happened with that new front wing from McLaren? Fernando seemed unimpressed by the fact that Jenson had it in his car. Also... team orders "bring it home, don't fight each other".

[I don't believe that for a second myself, he went straight into PR crap mode]

Was it clearer in the actual interview what Webber meant by 'best'? Because if it's in terms of working relationship in addition to speed, I think Jenson might very well be the best. He's very close to Alonso's pace and they seem to get along great, unlike the last time he had a teammate of similar speed.

If the question was best driver that's something else, but I think it would be very hard to say Lewis was Alonso's best teammate. More likely the worst.

I think the question was 'strongest, most complete team-mate', so as talented and as quick as Hamilton was in 2007, it's natural that someone in his 16th year of F1 is a more complete driver than a rookie, regardless of natural talent.

For 2016 imo Alonso is still the best driver of his era: his performances in the slow McLaren-Honda have been exceptional. His aggression (in the best racing sense) with overtaking has been impressive. I doubt any other driver today would have done nearly as well in that car. Imo Alonso is the greatest driver since Michael S. Apart from 2007 when McLaren did not treat Alonso as no 1, and he was equalled by Hamilton.

This 2007 Alonso situation was similar to Piquet's when he went to Williams-Honda in 1986 and was not treated as a no. one. Being human their motivation was negatively affected.

This is not a modern drivers' phenomenon, the same happened to Fangio in 1956 when Enzo Ferrari treated him like any other of his five drivers. Fangio had to have a serious 'chat' with Enzo before things improved. It was Fangio's worst season in a fastest car. He was lucky to win the WDC, thanks to sharing Musso's and Collin's cars.

The same happened to other greats, eg long time Mercedes-Benz driver Caracciola in 1938-1939 when he sulked at younger team-mates getting equal treatment.

Back to Alonso, what he managed with Ferrari 2010-2014 was exceptional too imo.

For 2016 imo Alonso is still the best driver of his era: his performances in the slow McLaren-Honda have been exceptional. His aggression (in the best racing sense) with overtaking has been impressive. I doubt any other driver today would have done nearly as well in that car. Imo Alonso is the greatest driver since Michael S. Apart from 2007 when McLaren did not treat Alonso as no 1, and he was equalled by Hamilton.

This 2007 Alonso situation was similar to Piquet's when he went to Williams-Honda in 1986 and was not treated as a no. one. Being human their motivation was negatively affected.

This is not a modern drivers' phenomenon, the same happened to Fangio in 1956 when Enzo Ferrari treated him like any other of his five drivers. Fangio had to have a serious 'chat' with Enzo before things improved. It was Fangio's worst season in a fastest car. He was lucky to win the WDC, thanks to sharing Musso's and Collin's cars.

The same happened to other greats, eg long time Mercedes-Benz driver Caracciola in 1938-1939 when he sulked at younger team-mates getting equal treatment.

Back to Alonso, what he managed with Ferrari 2010-2014 was exceptional too imo.

I have to question a driver that needs to be #1 and have preferential treatment over his teammates.

Considering McHondas struggles and the forum questioning how long Fernando will stick around I had a thought on a ideal scenario.Porsche sign Fernando and run a third LMP1 car and drag Webber out of retirement to have a run around with Alonso. Bring in Montoya or Mitch Evans (both tested with Porsche at the end of 2015) and boom, that is a quality line up.Thoughts?

I have to question a driver that needs to be #1 and have preferential treatment over his teammates.

You'd be questioning a lot of great drivers, then.

Alonso obviously doesn't need it though, he just prefers it. A #1 driver is the best way to win championships, and in fact if McLaren had supported Alonso (or Hamilton, for that matter) fully they would have won the 2007 title.

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

Sums up his luck really. He allegedly had a Ferrari deal signed* for 2011 that could be brought forward on Ferrari's side if they wanted to get rid of Kimi a year early so he couldn't commit anywhere for more than a year which is why he ended up staying at Renault. I believe it's what put Honda off as well as no-one wanted to sign a driver that was only coming for a year before joining another team and taking secrets with them.

If Kimi had performed well he could have done both but alas, no-one forced him to sign it but it cut him off at the knees and I think a fair chance he wins 09/10 in a RB with a green Seb or Mark beside him.

Interesting about thinking he could have won it by just joining mid season though, haven't heard that bit before or the informal back of the Alfa story. I bet these informal ones go on all the time behind the scenes.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

Sums up his luck really. He allegedly had a Ferrari deal signed* for 2011 that could be brought forward on Ferrari's side if they wanted to get rid of Kimi a year early so he couldn't commit anywhere for more than a year which is why he ended up staying at Renault. I believe it's what put Honda off as well as no-one wanted to sign a driver that was only coming for a year before joining another team and taking secrets with them.

If Kimi had performed well he could have done both but alas, no-one forced him to sign it but it cut him off at the knees and I think a fair chance he wins 09/10 in a RB with a green Seb or Mark beside him.

Interesting about thinking he could have won it by just joining mid season though, haven't heard that bit before or the informal back of the Alfa story. I bet these informal ones go on all the time behind the scenes.

That's one amazing article, did people just ignore it at the time as being nonsense because I don't recall it being common knowledge?

The article didn't say which driver would be dropped, did they retain Massa because of the accident and it would have been callous to drop him or it was always going to be Kimi for lack of performance?

So Alonso couldn't sign a 2 year contract with Red Bull because of the Ferrari contract and then after being refused a 1 year contract he thought he could come in mid season and turf out either Webber or Vettel because they had a race winning car, that's some crazy thinking by Alonso he seems to have no boundaries in respect to getting what he wants in F1.

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

I believe it was 2011 when Ferrari had a terrible car, I'm just wondering how he would have got out of his 4 year contract with Ferrari, in his second season he was already wanting out.

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

Sums up his luck really. He allegedly had a Ferrari deal signed* for 2011 that could be brought forward on Ferrari's side if they wanted to get rid of Kimi a year early so he couldn't commit anywhere for more than a year which is why he ended up staying at Renault. I believe it's what put Honda off as well as no-one wanted to sign a driver that was only coming for a year before joining another team and taking secrets with them.

If Kimi had performed well he could have done both but alas, no-one forced him to sign it but it cut him off at the knees and I think a fair chance he wins 09/10 in a RB with a green Seb or Mark beside him.

Interesting about thinking he could have won it by just joining mid season though, haven't heard that bit before or the informal back of the Alfa story. I bet these informal ones go on all the time behind the scenes.

That's one amazing article, did people just ignore it at the time as being nonsense because I don't recall it being common knowledge?

The article didn't say which driver would be dropped, did they retain Massa because of the accident and it would have been callous to drop him or it was always going to be Kimi for lack of performance?

So Alonso couldn't sign a 2 year contract with Red Bull because of the Ferrari contract and then after being refused a 1 year contract he thought he could come in mid season and turf out either Webber or Vettel because they had a race winning car, that's some crazy thinking by Alonso he seems to have no boundaries in respect to getting what he wants in F1.

It was rumoured in a few places it was a done deal but obviously its hard to separate whats true or not as there's always conflicting ones. Allievi and Allen are pretty solid though. According to the one linked in the next paragraph the rumours started in Monaco 2008 but Alonso denied it.

Well it's only sensible to try and position himself into the best car so it can't hurt to try.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Last edited by Lotus49 on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

Sums up his luck really. He allegedly had a Ferrari deal signed* for 2011 that could be brought forward on Ferrari's side if they wanted to get rid of Kimi a year early so he couldn't commit anywhere for more than a year which is why he ended up staying at Renault. I believe it's what put Honda off as well as no-one wanted to sign a driver that was only coming for a year before joining another team and taking secrets with them.

If Kimi had performed well he could have done both but alas, no-one forced him to sign it but it cut him off at the knees and I think a fair chance he wins 09/10 in a RB with a green Seb or Mark beside him.

Interesting about thinking he could have won it by just joining mid season though, haven't heard that bit before or the informal back of the Alfa story. I bet these informal ones go on all the time behind the scenes.

That's one amazing article, did people just ignore it at the time as being nonsense because I don't recall it being common knowledge?

The article didn't say which driver would be dropped, did they retain Massa because of the accident and it would have been callous to drop him or it was always going to be Kimi for lack of performance?

So Alonso couldn't sign a 2 year contract with Red Bull because of the Ferrari contract and then after being refused a 1 year contract he thought he could come in mid season and turf out either Webber or Vettel because they had a race winning car, that's some crazy thinking by Alonso he seems to have no boundaries in respect to getting what he wants in F1.

It was rumoured in a few places it was a done deal but obviously its hard to separate whats true or not as there's always conflicting ones. Allievi and Allen are pretty solid though. According to the one linked in the next paragraph the rumours started in Monaco 2008 but Alonso denied it.

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

I believe it was 2011 when Ferrari had a terrible car, I'm just wondering how he would have got out of his 4 year contract with Ferrari, in his second season he was already wanting out.

I doubt it was 2011, he'd just extended the month before Spa.

2012 could add up considering the circumstances. Driving like a demon, poor car at the beginning but sorted out towards Spa but still behind the competition and he'd just had a nightmare weekend where he lost a fair chunk of his lead and the run in was looking ominous.

I could buy an informal chat after that.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Halfway through '09, I had an approach to say ‘could he join mid-season?’ because they thought he could win the championship in the car. Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12, and again it never really…the most serious discussion was the first one and then it missed its chance.

Sums up his luck really. He allegedly had a Ferrari deal signed* for 2011 that could be brought forward on Ferrari's side if they wanted to get rid of Kimi a year early so he couldn't commit anywhere for more than a year which is why he ended up staying at Renault. I believe it's what put Honda off as well as no-one wanted to sign a driver that was only coming for a year before joining another team and taking secrets with them.

If Kimi had performed well he could have done both but alas, no-one forced him to sign it but it cut him off at the knees and I think a fair chance he wins 09/10 in a RB with a green Seb or Mark beside him.

Interesting about thinking he could have won it by just joining mid season though, haven't heard that bit before or the informal back of the Alfa story. I bet these informal ones go on all the time behind the scenes.

That's one amazing article, did people just ignore it at the time as being nonsense because I don't recall it being common knowledge?

The article didn't say which driver would be dropped, did they retain Massa because of the accident and it would have been callous to drop him or it was always going to be Kimi for lack of performance?

So Alonso couldn't sign a 2 year contract with Red Bull because of the Ferrari contract and then after being refused a 1 year contract he thought he could come in mid season and turf out either Webber or Vettel because they had a race winning car, that's some crazy thinking by Alonso he seems to have no boundaries in respect to getting what he wants in F1.

It was rumoured in a few places it was a done deal but obviously its hard to separate whats true or not as there's always conflicting ones. Allievi and Allen are pretty solid though. According to the one linked in the next paragraph the rumours started in Monaco 2008 but Alonso denied it.

Well it's only sensible to try and position himself into the best car so it can't hurt to try.

The link doesn't lead to the article.

I would say that only Alonso would have the temerity to try and replace another driver mid season because he's in a race winning and he himself isn't.

It does for me, did you scroll about half way down?. Ok I'm a prat, I just noticed the 'read more and comment' at the bottom and not only does it mean I can link you direct but there's a load more of the rumours lol. http://www.autoracing1.com/rumors.asp?tid=6519

And you'd be guessing. We've heard stories about drivers approaching other teams during the season and we've no idea on the specifics in any case until someone blurts it out. Horner has obliged here with Alonso but It doesn't mean he's alone.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Last edited by Lotus49 on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Sums up his luck really. He allegedly had a Ferrari deal signed* for 2011 that could be brought forward on Ferrari's side if they wanted to get rid of Kimi a year early so he couldn't commit anywhere for more than a year which is why he ended up staying at Renault. I believe it's what put Honda off as well as no-one wanted to sign a driver that was only coming for a year before joining another team and taking secrets with them.

If Kimi had performed well he could have done both but alas, no-one forced him to sign it but it cut him off at the knees and I think a fair chance he wins 09/10 in a RB with a green Seb or Mark beside him.

Interesting about thinking he could have won it by just joining mid season though, haven't heard that bit before or the informal back of the Alfa story. I bet these informal ones go on all the time behind the scenes.

That's one amazing article, did people just ignore it at the time as being nonsense because I don't recall it being common knowledge?

The article didn't say which driver would be dropped, did they retain Massa because of the accident and it would have been callous to drop him or it was always going to be Kimi for lack of performance?

So Alonso couldn't sign a 2 year contract with Red Bull because of the Ferrari contract and then after being refused a 1 year contract he thought he could come in mid season and turf out either Webber or Vettel because they had a race winning car, that's some crazy thinking by Alonso he seems to have no boundaries in respect to getting what he wants in F1.

It was rumoured in a few places it was a done deal but obviously its hard to separate whats true or not as there's always conflicting ones. Allievi and Allen are pretty solid though. According to the one linked in the next paragraph the rumours started in Monaco 2008 but Alonso denied it.

Well it's only sensible to try and position himself into the best car so it can't hurt to try.

The link doesn't lead to the article.

I would say that only Alonso would have the temerity to try and replace another driver mid season because he's in a race winning and he himself isn't.

It does for me, did you scroll about half way down?. Ok I'm a prat, I just noticed the 'read more and comment' at the bottom and not only does it mean I can link you direct but there's a load more of the rumours lol. http://www.autoracing1.com/rumors.asp?tid=6519

And you'd be guessing. We've heard stories about drivers approaching other teams during the season and we've no idea on the specifics in any case until someone blurts it out. Horner has obliged here with Alonso but It doesn't mean he's alone.

That's about the longest page I've ever had to scroll down.

That actually dates back to before the 2008 season had started with Kimi having recently won the title, strange there should be talk of his retirement with him only being 28.

I've never heard of a driver trying to oust another driver mid season.

That's one amazing article, did people just ignore it at the time as being nonsense because I don't recall it being common knowledge?

The article didn't say which driver would be dropped, did they retain Massa because of the accident and it would have been callous to drop him or it was always going to be Kimi for lack of performance?

So Alonso couldn't sign a 2 year contract with Red Bull because of the Ferrari contract and then after being refused a 1 year contract he thought he could come in mid season and turf out either Webber or Vettel because they had a race winning car, that's some crazy thinking by Alonso he seems to have no boundaries in respect to getting what he wants in F1.

It was rumoured in a few places it was a done deal but obviously its hard to separate whats true or not as there's always conflicting ones. Allievi and Allen are pretty solid though. According to the one linked in the next paragraph the rumours started in Monaco 2008 but Alonso denied it.

Well it's only sensible to try and position himself into the best car so it can't hurt to try.

The link doesn't lead to the article.

I would say that only Alonso would have the temerity to try and replace another driver mid season because he's in a race winning and he himself isn't.

It does for me, did you scroll about half way down?. Ok I'm a prat, I just noticed the 'read more and comment' at the bottom and not only does it mean I can link you direct but there's a load more of the rumours lol. http://www.autoracing1.com/rumors.asp?tid=6519

And you'd be guessing. We've heard stories about drivers approaching other teams during the season and we've no idea on the specifics in any case until someone blurts it out. Horner has obliged here with Alonso but It doesn't mean he's alone.

That's about the longest page I've ever had to scroll down.

That actually dates back to before the 2008 season had started with Kimi having recently won the title, strange there should be talk of his retirement with him only being 28.

I've never heard of a driver trying to oust another driver mid season.

Doesn't mean anything, you would have said the same yesterday but now you know one. You're going a bit overboard are you not?. Horner himself didn't class it as serious as the other initial talk. You could be talking about Alonso asking his manager to feel out the possibility over the phone. In fact going by the quote it could be exactly that.

If it happens great, if not who really cares?.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Just between themselves it looks like. Not sure if they'll run two or three cars.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It was rumoured in a few places it was a done deal but obviously its hard to separate whats true or not as there's always conflicting ones. Allievi and Allen are pretty solid though. According to the one linked in the next paragraph the rumours started in Monaco 2008 but Alonso denied it.

Well it's only sensible to try and position himself into the best car so it can't hurt to try.

The link doesn't lead to the article.

I would say that only Alonso would have the temerity to try and replace another driver mid season because he's in a race winning and he himself isn't.

It does for me, did you scroll about half way down?. Ok I'm a prat, I just noticed the 'read more and comment' at the bottom and not only does it mean I can link you direct but there's a load more of the rumours lol. http://www.autoracing1.com/rumors.asp?tid=6519

And you'd be guessing. We've heard stories about drivers approaching other teams during the season and we've no idea on the specifics in any case until someone blurts it out. Horner has obliged here with Alonso but It doesn't mean he's alone.

That's about the longest page I've ever had to scroll down.

That actually dates back to before the 2008 season had started with Kimi having recently won the title, strange there should be talk of his retirement with him only being 28.

I've never heard of a driver trying to oust another driver mid season.

Doesn't mean anything, you would have said the same yesterday but now you know one. You're going a bit overboard are you not?. Horner himself didn't class it as serious as the other initial talk. You could be talking about Alonso asking his manager to feel out the possibility over the phone. In fact going by the quote it could be exactly that.

If it happens great, if not who really cares?.

Horner said that he didn't class it as serious on their side as in Alonso missed the boat on the original offer, also I'm quite amazed that you are not astonished by what Alonso proposed?

I would say that only Alonso would have the temerity to try and replace another driver mid season because he's in a race winning and he himself isn't.

It does for me, did you scroll about half way down?. Ok I'm a prat, I just noticed the 'read more and comment' at the bottom and not only does it mean I can link you direct but there's a load more of the rumours lol. http://www.autoracing1.com/rumors.asp?tid=6519

And you'd be guessing. We've heard stories about drivers approaching other teams during the season and we've no idea on the specifics in any case until someone blurts it out. Horner has obliged here with Alonso but It doesn't mean he's alone.

That's about the longest page I've ever had to scroll down.

That actually dates back to before the 2008 season had started with Kimi having recently won the title, strange there should be talk of his retirement with him only being 28.

I've never heard of a driver trying to oust another driver mid season.

Doesn't mean anything, you would have said the same yesterday but now you know one. You're going a bit overboard are you not?. Horner himself didn't class it as serious as the other initial talk. You could be talking about Alonso asking his manager to feel out the possibility over the phone. In fact going by the quote it could be exactly that.

If it happens great, if not who really cares?.

Horner said that he didn't class it as serious on their side as in Alonso missed the boat on the original offer, also I'm quite amazed that you are not astonished by what Alonso proposed?

He said the first one was the most serious discussion.

I found it interesting as I'd never heard it. No reason for me to be astonished, I'd be more surprised if he tried nothing tbh. I believed he was the one knocking on Toto's door as well. I wouldn't expect any stone left unturned in trying to be in the best spot. It's not a spec series.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Just between themselves it looks like. Not sure if they'll run two or three cars.

So this year is basically the easiest year in memory for Alonso to win Le Mans?

It's still a Toyota.

Seriously though it is in the same sense 2014-16 was the easiest F1 WDC to win. Or 1992. Or one of the Lotus years etc..

Only competition was their team mates and its the same here.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It does for me, did you scroll about half way down?. Ok I'm a prat, I just noticed the 'read more and comment' at the bottom and not only does it mean I can link you direct but there's a load more of the rumours lol. http://www.autoracing1.com/rumors.asp?tid=6519

And you'd be guessing. We've heard stories about drivers approaching other teams during the season and we've no idea on the specifics in any case until someone blurts it out. Horner has obliged here with Alonso but It doesn't mean he's alone.

That's about the longest page I've ever had to scroll down.

That actually dates back to before the 2008 season had started with Kimi having recently won the title, strange there should be talk of his retirement with him only being 28.

I've never heard of a driver trying to oust another driver mid season.

Doesn't mean anything, you would have said the same yesterday but now you know one. You're going a bit overboard are you not?. Horner himself didn't class it as serious as the other initial talk. You could be talking about Alonso asking his manager to feel out the possibility over the phone. In fact going by the quote it could be exactly that.

If it happens great, if not who really cares?.

Horner said that he didn't class it as serious on their side as in Alonso missed the boat on the original offer, also I'm quite amazed that you are not astonished by what Alonso proposed?

He said the first one was the most serious discussion.

I found it interesting as I'd never heard it. No reason for me to be astonished, I'd be more surprised if he tried nothing tbh. I believed he was the one knocking on Toto's door as well. I wouldn't expect any stone left unturned in trying to be in the best spot. It's not a spec series.

The most serious for Red Bull, they already turned down the 1 year deal why take the 6 month deal plus I would guess no way do they replace either driver who both had a chance at the title.

He knocked on Toto's door to swap for the following season, mid season is crazy.

That actually dates back to before the 2008 season had started with Kimi having recently won the title, strange there should be talk of his retirement with him only being 28.

I've never heard of a driver trying to oust another driver mid season.

Doesn't mean anything, you would have said the same yesterday but now you know one. You're going a bit overboard are you not?. Horner himself didn't class it as serious as the other initial talk. You could be talking about Alonso asking his manager to feel out the possibility over the phone. In fact going by the quote it could be exactly that.

If it happens great, if not who really cares?.

Horner said that he didn't class it as serious on their side as in Alonso missed the boat on the original offer, also I'm quite amazed that you are not astonished by what Alonso proposed?

He said the first one was the most serious discussion.

I found it interesting as I'd never heard it. No reason for me to be astonished, I'd be more surprised if he tried nothing tbh. I believed he was the one knocking on Toto's door as well. I wouldn't expect any stone left unturned in trying to be in the best spot. It's not a spec series.

The most serious for Red Bull, they already turned down the 1 year deal why take the 6 month deal plus I would guess no way do they replace either driver who both had a chance at the title.

He knocked on Toto's door to swap for the following season, mid season is crazy.

Still your interpretation, he just says the first one was the most serious discussion.

Meh I wasn't there but either wouldn't bother me.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967