I would've thought the KoG, or at least KoG II to be stronger than the LEDs. I mean, it took Junchoon to defeat it, right? Or is that only because it had incredible people (person? ..can't remember) piloting it?

The total combat power of a mortar headd is determined by combining the strength of the mortar headd, the ability of the fatima and the skill of the pilot. If you remove the fatima and pilot from the equation and only look at the mortar headd I'd guess the Jagd Mirage is the strongest. Just my guess.

As others have mentioned, the total strength of a MH depends not only on the MH but very heavily on the Fatima co-pilot (probably the biggest factor) the skill of the pilot as well as the Fatima/Headdliner bond.

Considering only the strength of the Mortar Headd alone, here is the top tier listing of MH's.

1: Last Junchoon. Most powerful Mortar Headd in existance. Mostly because of Fatima Clotho, but it easily achieves even LED Mirage levels of performance.

2: Akatsuki Hime (AKA Mighty Alpha) Amaterasu tuned this Mortar Headd to be even more powerful than the legendary LED Mirage. With Kensei Maximum at the controls, its difficult to imagine a more powerful combination. Only the Last Junchoon with Clotho could come close to defeating this pair.

3: LED Mirage. This Mortar Headd is unbeatable. Period. Standard Mortar Headds can't beat them. The only other option is another LED Mirage. Both the Last Junchoon and the Akatsuki Hime are LED Mirage variants (though they are both designed by different meights, they both were re-tuned by Amaterasu and powered by LED Mirage engines) which is why they rank higher (but only slightly higher) than the LED Mirage. The other 2 Mighty Series Mortar Headds (Mighty Beta and Mighty Gamma) rank here as well.

4: Knight of Gold. Not really sure if this is appropriate. The Knight of Gold II may very well rank higher than the Last Junchoon, but this is unknown. What is known is that it has a higher power output than all of the standard Mirage Fleet except for the Jagd Mirage.

5: Jagd Mirage. Huge...over 40 meters tall. Powerful...has been seen smashing another Mortar Headd to bits in a single swipe of its huge blade. And deadly....it is the only Mortar Headd in the galaxy to sport twin full-sized buster launchers as standard equipment. On its own, this Mortar Headd can destroy entire cities. It can wipe armies from the field. It can flatten mountain ranges Fear it.

6: Machine Messiah. While not technically Mortar Headds, Machine Messiah were the predecessor of the modern weapon used during the Super Empire. They are vastly more powerful than most MH's (cept for the ones listed above). Machine Messiah include the Yen Xing and the MM: AUGE.

7: Mirage Fleet. The Cross Mirage, Rogue Mirage, Terror Mirage, Speed Mirage, Eleshis etc, etc. The Mirage Fleet are the most powerful assemblage of Mortar Headds in the galaxy. A few MH's held by other nations rank at this level....the Kan, the Engage SR3: Saylay Junchoon etc.

8: The Empress. This Mortar Headd, while an older design, is still one of the most powerful ever made. It was equipped with twin engines from an antique Yen Xing...one of the most powerful Machine Messiah from the Super Empire. Its engines generate so much power that excess energy bleeds from the MH's joints and gaps in the armor as an electromagnetic field that oftentimes catches the foliage around it on fire, in essence wreathing this gorgeous Electric Knight in a halo of flames...

9: The Vatshu. The Mortar Headd of the Black Knight. While the Vatshu itself is only a mid-level design, its owes its prowess to the Synchronize Fluter when its paired with the Fatima built specifically for it. When paired with Fatima Est, this Mortar Headd gains such a boost in power, it can easily compare with the standard Mirage Fleet. With a top-tier Headdliner at the controls, it can even goe toe-to-toe with a LED Mirage!

10: Various. The Siren Flag MH's (Neptune and Prominence), The Phantoms, The Engage SR1 and SR2/Mk.2. At this point it gets difficult to judge. The MH's are fairly close to each other in power. At this level it really depends on the MH/Headdliner/Fatima combination to achieve victory.

Hel wrote:Thanks for the list Nu Soard, but i should have specified Physical power (the strongest but bare handed ><) sorry my bad... but great list

ah, lifting strength is what you are looking for then? Don't know, Nagano never talks about it. I would imagine a lot of that depends on the Fatima and Headdliner.

The Mortar Headd exists to amplify a Headdliner's strength up to a Mecha scale. The stronger the headdliner pilot, the stronger the Mortar Headd will be. However, the Fatima has a lot to do with this as well. The Fatima is the one who adjusts the power balance and sets the potential strength of the MH so that it can further amplify its pilots capabilities.

Some MH's are technically stronger than others. There are basicaly two types of Mortar Headd frames. Lion Type and Cheetah Type. The Cheetah type are the slim, lightly armored type of MH's. They are built with speed and agility in mind. The Lion Type are built for power and strength. A MH with a Lion Frame would probably have considerably more inherent strength than a Cheetah Frame MH. But still, ultimately is the Headdliner and Fatima that will determine the final result.

Clearly Jagt is far above ordinary MH, but is it so far so it compares with MM?

I'm really torn on this issue. The Jagd Mirage, when it debuted, outclassed other MH's piloted by top-class Headdliners (the Pied Pipers) and it did so with ease. However a Machine Messiah would probably be able to run circles around it.

For sheer strength and damage capabilities, the Jagd is probably superior, however in FSS, speed is king and I don't see the Jagd matching a Machine Messiah in that category.

The great equalizer are those twin rapid fire Buster Launchers. Those babies can lay waste to a whole lotta terrain, very quickly. Those are the reasons I place the Jagd above the Machine Messiah. However without those Busters, I would probably give the MM the edge.

The great equalizer are those twin rapid fire Buster Launchers. Those babies can lay waste to a whole lotta terrain, very quickly. Those are the reasons I place the Jagd above the Machine Messiah. However without those Busters, I would probably give the MM the edge.

The rapid firing only works with the pre loaded buster charges doesn't it?

Hypothetically, I would say that that MM would have to outlast that (once the buster charges are out, the Jagt is back to it's long buster cycle). Once it's onto the buster cycle then there's more than enough time.

It's a shame we don't see much of the MM (BUT that keeps the mystery level high) but it seems that they can shred fleets in second from what I remember.

Poseidal wrote:
The rapid firing only works with the pre loaded buster charges doesn't it?

Hypothetically, I would say that that MM would have to outlast that (once the buster charges are out, the Jagt is back to it's long buster cycle). Once it's onto the buster cycle then there's more than enough time.

It's a shame we don't see much of the MM (BUT that keeps the mystery level high) but it seems that they can shred fleets in second from what I remember.

Tough call.

Well, it gets 44 Rapid Fire shots before having to switch to slow charging. Thats a lot of chances.