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MOTUC Octavia Discussion Thread

I've noticed there was a 4 pages thread on Mattycollector about the possibility of including Octavia in the MOTUC line and I've also read Scott's answer to fan's question in the other thread about it.

Lot of fans quoted my research and theories about the subject.
But, I ask that you don't use my theories and research to challenge Mattel.
I only post it for historical entertainment.Only Mattel knows the Legal status of past and present characters.
I am certain Mattel wants these characters too. We must trust them to handle character rights on their own.

Copyrights issue are a complicated matter.
A piece of paper with info about who first drew a character does not tell us the whole story.
We do not know the contracts Mattel has/had with other companies.
So we can only speculate only on the origins of this art.

MOTU is an almost 30 years old property. Lot of the original art is all over the place, and it may happens that, from time to time, fans or collectors came across images or informations people currently at Mattel don't have or haven't seen before (for example the Gygor prototype).
When we find this art, the best we can do is post it and hope it is maybe helpful to Mattel.
But only Mattel know if these images add valuable info to the rights status of certain characters. And we have to wait and see if they do. They are not obligated to tell us these things.

Here are my historical design theories, all in once place for your entertainment.

First, there is the Filmation Model Sheet AlessandraF posted on Matty's forum.
Model Sheet are the characters model turnarounds used as reference by the animators during the production of a cartoon.
The one posted by Alessandra is the final model sheet for the character and not a simple sketch.
It's taken from the POP series Villains Models Compilations (but she also appears in the single episodes model packs as well)
Octavia's Model Sheet design was added to POP in 1985.
As noted, it's labeled "Mattel Toy."

It seems that almost every character (or vehicles) in the POP series that were labeled "Mattel Toy" on the Model Sheets were characters that originated at Mattel as toys that Mattel specifically requested to incorporate in the cartoon.
You can see the same label on many other model sheets, like the Star Sister, Sea Harp, Netossa, almost all wave 2 characters, Colonel Blast (Rio Blast), Snout Spout, Tung Lashor, etc.
My theory is that Octavia was probably another toy in development at Mattel that was pitched to Filmation.But again, this proves nothing about ownership and rights!

You won't find the same "Mattel Toy" label on the POP main cast model sheets (including the Evil Horde). Those appear to be developed by Filmation or by Filmation in conjunction with Mattel. My own belief is the creation of those particular characters is what probably is behind the complicated POP characters rights's situation we heard about many years ago when BCI was working with both ER and Mattel.

Let's talk about the toy design for Octavia.
I can't show you the art as it is in a private collection that I have been lucky enough to see.
But I can describe it to you.
It's important to keep in mind this is a MOTU figure design, not a POP one - it was developed to be included in the MOTU action figure line.
The original pencil drawing by Ted Mayer, "Octopus Woman" is dated June the 7th, 1984.
It's definitely a female horde member: she has the horde insignia on her chest, her legs and on the band on her left arm. She has a simple outfit, with a large belt and some sort of wide sleeves. She has 6 short tentacles in total (3 for each side), and black, short hairs.
While certain details doesn't match the final Filmation model sheet design, she looks like a preliminary version of Octavia.

The color rendering of her toy design has even more differences from the Filmation model.
It's the same pencil sketch, photocopied and pasted on a colored board, then rendered with what appears to be inks. She has purple skin, but the tentacles are green while her dress is blue. The date is 7-10-1984.
She's part of a large number of similar designs for produced and unproduced characters by Mattel.

My hopes are maybe we could get a toy version of the toy design done at Mattel on June 7th, 1984.
The coloring and details may have been different from the Filmation one, and she may have to have a different name. But, in spirit, she would still be "Octavia"

Going back to the subject of this thread, Scott's response about Octavia ownership was:

Although this sheet is labeled "Mattel toy" Octavia was a Filmation character and we do not have access to her at this time

You all know that I think she may have been originated at Mattel, but of course this doesn't mean they have rights to produce a MOTU figure of her.Please do not misinterpret my historical theories on where designs were created to have anything to do with ownership and rights! They are not the same!!! Thanks.

Octavia is definitely one of my most wanted figures...I've been wanting a toy of her since I was a little boy (same for Shadow Weaver and Scorpia). I hope the filmation rights are eventually required and we can get a proper Octavia figure but the figure design you described sounds awesome enough to deserve its own figure too...especially since it seems so drastically different from the cartoon design. I would love them both in my MOTUC Horde.

Octavia is definitely one of my most wanted figures...I've been wanting a toy of her since I was a little boy (same for Shadow Weaver and Scorpia). I hope the filmation rights are eventually required and we can get a proper Octavia figure but the figure design you described sounds awesome enough to deserve its own figure too...especially since it seems so drastically different from the cartoon design. I would love them both in my MOTUC Horde.

Me too.

I do want a proper Octavia (I love my custom but I hate it too lol) I kind of want a version based off of the figure design described.

I wonder if we could get a 'generic' female counterpart to Merman in Classics that we could use as an unofficial Octavia.

I was watching Secret of the Sword the other night and noticed all of the female Horde Members--Shadow Weaver, Scorpia, Catra and Octavia (even though she wasn't in it), which are a big chunk of Hordak's warriors.

How come the POP line is so hero heavy? Girls didn't like to play with ugly female bad guys?

I know you are a busy guy and this may be asking too much, but is there any chance you could do a quick mock-up of what you think a MOTUC version would look like. I've seen some other ones you have done and as always, they looked amazing.

I think there's a lot more going on here than we know about, which is fine. I'm confident the design will surface.

However, I'd rather see the Filmation Octavia design made into a figure first. It's amazing, considering she's in one episode as a major player and has a tiny bit-part in another that she's so popular. I think Mattel are aware of this. Perhaps the two designs will end up being two separate characters, related in some way, like Skeletor and Demo-Man. I could live with that.

I'm interested to learn more about this mysterious concept design of Octopus Woman/Octavia ... but as much as I am desperate to get the Horde ladies (Octavia, Shadow Weaver, Scorpia) I must admit I only really need one female Horde octopus warrior, not two.

BTW, who is Catra's Wrath on the Matty forum. I had a look at their Octavia thread and as I read it she says Mattel acquiring some character rights are not a never ever thing. Is she a Mattel employee or just someone from the fandom appointed to be a moderator like a kid winning an invite to the Willy Wonka chocolate factory? If she is a Mattel employee, that statement seems more optimistic (admittedly not by much) than Toyguru's standard "not something available now" routine which gives us no inkling as to whether Mattel ever intend or would like to negotiate individual character/FILMation library rights.

A little update on my research: I talked to the designer of the Octopus Woman, Ted Mayer.
He said his department had no contact with Filmation and so he created that design which is not based on a pre-existing Filmation model.

I was watching Secret of the Sword the other night and noticed all of the female Horde Members--Shadow Weaver, Scorpia, Catra and Octavia (even though she wasn't in it), which are a big chunk of Hordak's warriors.

How come the POP line is so hero heavy? Girls didn't like to play with ugly female bad guys?

Ive often wondered that, and thats why Ive decided that several other POP girls are Villians- Netossa,Spinnerella (female equivalent of Webstor) and of course entrapta.

A little update on my research: I talked to the designer of the Octopus Woman, Ted Mayer.
He said his department had no contact with Filmation and so he created that design which is not based on a pre-existing Filmation model.

Sweet! I'm a huge fan of Octavia's final look on the show. Can you tell us how close the design of the octopus woman is to the filmation design?

A little update on my research: I talked to the designer of the Octopus Woman, Ted Mayer.
He said his department had no contact with Filmation and so he created that design which is not based on a pre-existing Filmation model.

Not to be a Debbie Downer or anything but even if it's proven that Octavia or "Octopus Woman" can be done by Mattel while following the standard "Filmation off limits" rule, doesn't mean that they will do it does it?

I figure that because they said that they don't want to press the rights issue or something like that. Just like how they wont do figures of characters that people are willing to sign on over for nothing. Or the Fearless Photog thing. You know the legal team would have to work overtime or something.

Which sucks...because I really would love an Octavia or even an "Octopus Woman" if that's what she has to be called, Mattel.

Well, like it's been mentioned before (see one of Emiliano's earlier posts), we're all just speculating about origin/creation stuff for the fun of it.
But none of us know the ins and outs of whatever the rights and ownership situation is with Filmation.
Only Mattel and Classic Media know for certain.