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No, all you are going to do is talk shit and step in it...you are going to go to your job at WalMart and then tell us what a tough guy you are and how you showed them...you will beg with the best of them when you need meds, and one day you will need meds...the only thing you will ever torture is us by constantly trying to blow smoke up our asses...you are going to do everything you say you won't do because bottom line you are all talk and nothing more. You think you got it all figured out but you're just another angry white guy with aids.

Perhaps we should stop putting people in jail for consensual or victimless crimes? I'm not sure that putting people in jail for smoking pot or snorting coke is a smart idea.

There are approximately 500000 people serving time in prison for possession of drugs.

There are around 3200 people sitting on death row.

I rather think we can afford to keep people who pose a REAL danger behind bars when we can waste so much money putting people in jail for getting caught with a bag of weed.

libvet, have you ever been robbed by a junkie? Have you ever had you house broke into by a bunch of junkies? Have you ever had your car stolen by some junkies to go buy drugs? You want those people on the street? Why not let the child molesters out too. They don't seal, or rob.

Ok so I get it. This thread is about the good and the bad. Finally I get it. Matty is twisted enough to start a thread that initially has a serious question that is very interesting but won't keep it closed and let it go awry without control. I'm sure he's laughing hard. I suddenly get it. I'm slow, but i'm outta. You win. I initially thought you were serious. My mistake.

Milker, honey....it's Matty's thread & I'm sure he is more than capable of keeping charge of it.

Just sayin'.

And an aside to Queen from way up above: I couldn't help but notice you advocated something along the lines of" "drug runners- put the max on and don't shut off the valve" or the like. Curious because you are such a noted smoker of the green. You do realize that (even if not specifically for yourself as a small buyer), you are advocating the "max" be put on the face of someone up the line who supplies for you, right? Unlesss, of course, you somehow are getting it completely all legal-like for medicinal purposes...but I doubt that is the case in philly. Not picking a fight with ya, girl...just saw that comment and thought it unusual.

I'm on food stamps for a few months while I'm taking job training, then I will be off of them.

Last year I paid about $4,800 to the Fed, State, and County.

Anyway, if it wasn't for things like GATT/NAFTA/CAFTA and other government bullshit, we wouldn't even be in the mess of millions of people suddenly unemployed or underemployed.

Wow....this gets more surreal by the second.

I'll take a pass on the hypocrisy of decrying taxes that I am happy to pay to help people who need help such as yourself to pay for basic necessities like like food, shelter, medicine...I don't think either of us want to go there and to be honest, some things speak for themselves.

If anything GATT/NAFTA/CAFTA and other such "free trade" agreements are a LOWERING of government protectionism. It is the absolute epitome of the "free market" that allows companies to move their manufacturing base to places that pay slave wages and then dump the goods on our country and destroy our manufacturing base. Surely someone with such a "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" rugged individualist who despises government interference wouldn't want the government stepping in and putting a stop to allowing companies to get their goods and labor anywhere they so desire?

And I've been on the receiving end of that. I'm three years past having my job outsourced and going back to school to learn a new trade. It took draining my 401k and savings to absolutely nothing and working the graveyard shift in a convenience store while going to school to do so, but other than a month of unemployment insurance, I managed to stay off the public dole.

We are in complete harmony on our dislike of so-called "free trade agreements" that are a race to the bottom and hurt the American worker, but I am not so blinded by my ideology that I wring my hands at the pitfalls of removing government interference in trade matters while simultaneously thinking the government is somehow my enemy. You can't hate the government then turn around and blame them when they STOP looking out for our interests. That's just.....bizarre. I'd like the government to step in and stop letting America become the dumping grounds for cheap goods made for slave wages in some sweatshop while watching our workforce get further and further behind.

Matty is twisted enough to start a thread that initially has a serious question that is very interesting but won't keep it closed and let it go awry without control.

No Milkie,

I've just learned that debates on Teh Intahwebs tend to be organic. It's one of those few things that Philly and I agree on. Rather than getting all prissy about hijacking I like to let these things go in whatever direction they seem to want to.

In any event I have no power to direct people on how they should post. And nor do you.

Subjects like capital punishment always point to deeper underlying issues and it's interesting to let those flesh out as well.

It's called a full and frank exchange of views. You should try it sometime dear.

...other than a month of unemployment insurance, I managed to stay off the public dole.

Actually, unemployment tax is collected from your employer based on a percentage of your pay, so technically that is not a form of welfare since it is essentially more money you earned that the government took.

Now Matty the Damned is not really concerned with whether or not forums members are pro or anti death penalty. By all means post your views, but that subject seems pretty well decided in the US.

Then keep your thread up to topic. I seriously believed that you were not interested in death penalty discussion when reading this, and you were more interested in the other part which was about punishment related to the crime, which I found profoundly interesting.

I'm sorry but in the In tha net nobody "owns" a thread. So get over it. Yeah I said "get over it" to Matty.

libvet, have you ever been robbed by a junkie? Have you ever had you house broke into by a bunch of junkies? Have you ever had your car stolen by some junkies to go buy drugs? You want those people on the street? Why not let the child molesters out too. They don't seal, or rob.

Child molesters are rapists. I think we can agree that a person who molests a child has committed a heinous act against another person and is a threat to society. So the analogy doesn't really hold water.

As for druggies, no I have not been the victim of theft from a junkie. I have been the victim of a drunk driver using his legal drug while getting behind the wheel.

If a junkie resorts to theft to support his habit, punish him for THEFT. If he's like most of the pot smokers I have known, who work full time jobs, raise kids, don't steal, and pretty much are indistinguishable from anyone else, why on earth should I care what their private vices are when they are not infringing on me? Hell, I've been known to buy a bag of week or more in my life and never harmed another soul and never resorted to theft or violence to do so and have been a productive taxpaying citizen since high school.

Do you honestly believe your (and my) tax dollars should be spent putting ME in jail for smoking pot now and then? If I ever start to steal or commit violence, you can prosecute me to your heart's content, but until I start infringing on someone else, you don't have a leg to stand on.

You might as well say, "Have you ever seen a company where a CEO or embezzler or thief stole from the company to support their upper class lifestyle?" Should owning nice things and spending a lot of money be a crime as well since some people resort to theft and fraud to support a better lifestyle? Of course not.

What I find most disconcerting about this thread is the absolute disgust and hatred that some posters have for their fellow humans. I have been a victim of violent crime and I support reasonable laws, but do some of you people hear yourselves? We are supposed to be sentient beings and you see no problem in jailing, torturing or whatever, just because you or a family member have been wronged. Funny thing about my family, the last thing either of my parents would ever want me to do was to exact revenge on another human, no matter what their crime.

I was reared to cherish life and every life, yes even the child molester, is important, because we are all human beings. It is the fact that we are human, with the capabilities that we possess that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. To think that a society that can put a person on the moon and repair heart damage in unborn infants, can actually take pleasure in the suffering of others.

Actually, unemployment tax is collected from your employer based on a percentage of your pay, so technically that is not a form of welfare since it is essentially more money you earned that the government took.

Well then, I also pay a medicare tax and many other taxes that pay for programs you call "welfare" which means it's not really welfare since if I receive any of those benefits it is essentially more money I earned that the government took.

And it doesn't bother me in the slightest. If some of that money goes to put food in the mouths of the hungry and provides medications to the elderly or any number of things.....I think I can bear that burden with enormous fortitude.

Then keep your thread up to topic. I seriously believed that you were not interested in death penalty discussion when reading this, and you were more interested in the other part which was about punishment related to the crime, which I found profoundly interesting.

I'm sorry but in the In tha net nobody "owns" a thread. So get over it. Yeah I said "get over it" to Matty.

Milker.

I'm like Matty and philly on how I like threads I initiate to flow- freely. I find it makes for more interesting discussions. And most of the time, truly compelling subject matter will not get completely lost in the discourse. You'll usually end up with good discussion of that and then some.

While it might be true that no one "owns" a thread on the net, it is generally accepted that the original poster has the overall say-so in how a thread flows (barring some intervention from the moderators).

By the by...I could have sworn you told me you were taking a 30 day break from the forums in light of all the rotten things you said in posts one evening not too long back.

I really doubt there are many innocent people in prison, I'm sure it happens occasionally, but are we supposed to let 999 murderers, rapists, child molesters, and druggies out cause 1 person got sent to prison by mistake?

iz, my brother is a CO at CRC in Columbus. He says, all of the inmates claim to be innocent. Half of them that come in are returns and have previous numbers.

Do some of you, not see what you are doing??? When you promote hatred, against any group, no matter how "deserving" you simply reduce the collective soul of society. We are more outraged at Don Ismus comments, than the Hip Hop music that is more denigrating to blacks than any white man could ever be. The States have become so inured to violence that it seems to have become a national sport. And when you talk hatred like this, you also unwittingly support the degradation of the least amongst us.

When you reduce people to animals, worthy of torture, caging and eventual slaughter, what are you teaching our young? You wonder why nobody cares if people die of HIV, it is because we have reduced the value of life to almost nothing. People kill people over articles of clothing. Think about this the next time you seek to demonize another and make no mistake that as long as you feel that way, countries will see no issue in ignoring the needs of their citizens. It's sport to beat up homeless people, so who will ever know if we just don't fund HIV services and thousands (or millions) die? Because in the end, far too many no longer value human life.

I will never strive to advance in life, on the backs of my fellow humans.

I'm like Matty and philly on how I like threads I initiate to flow- freely. I find it makes for more interesting discussions. And most of the time, truly compelling subject matter will not get completely lost in the discourse. You'll usually end up with good discussion of that and then some.

While it might be true that no one "owns" a thread on the net, it is generally accepted that the original poster has the overall say-so in how a thread flows (barring some intervention from the moderators).

By the by...I could have sworn you told me you were taking a 30 day break from the forums in light of all the rotten things you said in posts one evening not too long back.

Whatever happened to that? Just wonderin'.

Oooo! Attack.

Ok let me reply, and i'm sure Matty won't give a shit about this hijack since it's a reply to an attack.

So yes, I initially thought this Matty thread was very interesting, because he was specifically saying that it was not a thread about death penalty, but rather a thread about revenge. I thought it was actually a very interesting thread, thinking it was a good start by putting the overall death penalty discussion aside.

I noted his request for me to not participate in the discussion in his first post, but ignored it because I thought this was actually a very interesting discussion. Internet exchanges are not easily conveying thoughts, and i'm not as good as a writer as he is, so I believe that I have not conveyed my thoughts to him and you the way I actually intended them to be conveyed.

I believe your dislike for me is related to my reactions to Herman's and Boo's problems. You will hate me forever for what I said, that's fine. You will hate me for my happy posts and you're waiting for me to post a seriously distressed post and say "ahAH there you go! Now you're not laughing anymore".

Give me a break, give yourself a break. We're all having to deal with this. And yes, we will disagree on some topics, it's fine, just don't make it a serious issue, we all need each other.

PS, iz, some people DO get rehabilitated. One of my best friends was in Westville prison in Indiana, got into recovery while on the inside and now has his PhD in psychology and is helping other people.

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Joe, I don't know if I miss understood you or not. What would be a deterant to commit murder, if the criminal knew they would get life? What about the guy at VT if he wouldn't have taken his own life? Give him life while 32 of his victims are dead? Hell no. Give a child molester 15 to life and he can get out in 7.5 years and do it again to some other child. I don't think so. Sorry Joe if I miss understood you.

Ok let me reply, and i'm sure Matty won't give a shit about this hijack since it's a reply to an attack.

So yes, I initially thought this Matty thread was very interesting, because he was specifically saying that it was not a thread about death penalty, but rather a thread about revenge. I thought it was actually a very interesting thread, thinking it was a good start by putting the overall death penalty discussion aside.

I noted his request for me to not participate in the discussion in his first post, but ignored it because I thought this was actually a very interesting discussion. Internet exchanges are not easily conveying thoughts, and i'm not as good as a writer as he is, so I believe that I have not conveyed my thoughts to him and you the way I actually intended them to be conveyed.

I believe your dislike for me is related to my reactions to Herman's and Boo's problems. You will hate me forever for what I said, that's fine. You will hate me for my happy posts and you're waiting for me to post a seriously distressed post and say "ahAH there you go! Now you're not laughing anymore".

Give me a break, give yourself a break. We're all having to deal with this. And yes, we will disagree on some topics, it's fine, just don't make it a serious issue, we all need each other.

Milker.

Oh, hon...an "attack"? It's really not all that. The "you will hate me forever" and "you're just waiting for such & such so you can say ahAH" business makes me suspect you are grossly over-estimating my feelings about you and that incident as well. I only brought it up becuase of all the "get over it" kind of statements you were making above. It read as though you were getting worked up out of proportion about Matty and how this thread was going. You had said that you felt you were getting too invested in these forums and needed time away to turn your focus inward. I thought those comments above were suggestive of that, so I made that statement as a reminder.

Give you a break? You're the one that claimed you needed a break. I was just reminding you of that because it looked like you were getting a bit edged.

I liked the idea of castrating sex offenders before they get released.

The guy mentioned up above who just got released from prison after serving 20 years for a rape he didn't commit is from right here in Atlanta. I'm sure he is grateful there were cooler heads than yours in charge.

Oh, hon...an "attack"? It's really not all that. The "you will hate me forever" and "you're just waiting for such & such so you can say ahAH" business makes me suspect you are grossly over-estimating my feelings about you and that incident as well. I only brought it up becuase of all the "get over it" kind of statements you were making above. It read as though you were getting worked up out of proportion about Matty and how this thread was going. You had said that you felt you were getting too invested in these forums and needed time away to turn your focus inward. I thought those comments above were suggestive of that, so I made that statement as a reminder.

Give you a break? You're the one that claimed you needed a break. I was just reminding you of that because it looked like you were getting a bit edged.

ROFL i'm fine, thanks for asking. What I realize in this post is that Matty was not honest to start with, and he was wanting for this confrontation to happen. i seriously thought from his initial post that he was asking a genuine question and would keep it on track.. Obviously this post was a free for all post and i'm not interested in it anymore.

It's time to bring it back with live and televised productions where viewers can call in and vote on the method of execution.

Vote 1 for hanging,vote 2 for firing squadVote 3 for death by chainsawVote 4 for gladiator showdown

Make it more fun and have contestants playing for valuable prizes and fabulous vacations... and when they answer wrong... off with the convicts head.

Ooooh, it could be a good ol', down home, traditional values family night that bonds families together. Kids and parents don't talk enough these days and this will be a good opportunity to talk about imporant issues like blood splatter and torture.

Hell, make it pay-per-kill if you want Sell tickets and have it at your local sports arena.

It's time to bring it back with live and televised productions where viewers can call in and vote on the method of execution.

Vote 1 for hanging,vote 2 for firing squadVote 3 for death by chainsawVote 4 for gladiator showdown

Make it more fun and have contestants playing for valuable prizes and fabulous vacations... and when they answer wrong... off with the convicts head.

Ooooh, it could be a good ol', down home, traditional values family night that bonds families together. Kids and parents don't talk enough these days and this will be a good opportunity to talk about imporant issues like blood splatter and torture.

Hell, make it pay-per-kill if you want Sell tickets and have it at your local sports arena.

It's be a boon for the economy.

I'm poppin popcorn! Who has the JuJuBee's?

What about dumping our entire prison population in Iraq and handing them M16's?

As for every problem there are two sides : one as an innocent bystander streaving for justice , and another one as a relative of a victime.For me some punishment could be worse than death itself.Judge someone to that kind (Death) of sentence and then porspone it forever.Or put him in a nuthouse in a solitaire room and throw away the key........Just food and shower once a week............. AlP.S : And just what kind of punishment deserve that poor Corean creature that have shoted 32 people ? Just a question...................Or someone that deliberately infect other peerson with this nasty bug of ours ?

It is not the justice system's role to execute revenge on the criminal.

I also just wanted to present a different argument to John's about the murder rates in Britain.

In 2005/6, there were about 750 murders in the whole country. That figure may seem a lot to some, but people's perception, fuelled by media frenzy, is that we live in Murder Central.

Most victims are still killed by friends or family and the deaths are largely concentrated in big city areas.

To say that murder rates have gone up 100 times in 30 years, is to report only half the story.

We have seen a number of high profile cases in the last decade, where people have been acquitted on murder charges. Some had been in prison for many years. That any one of them might have been murdered by the state in this way, in the name of so called justice, is indefensible.

izprince, i love your idea. I thought after 911 we should have rounded up every murderous scumbag from our prisons and parachute them into Afghanistan and Iraq, armed to the teeth. I would love to see the brave militant Islams or whatever we are calling them today wake up and a Jeffrey Dalmer or Charly Manson fully armed in their home. I also believe we should give Maui to the Jews and let them all move there and give Israel to the Palestinians so they can work the same economic miracle there that the Jews have. Sorry went off topic. Fuck it, its Mattys post.It depends what you call torture. If you call what went on Abu Grabbi torture, no way. Dressing death rowers up as women and having them pose naked doesnt do much for me. Either does water boarding.I suggest that prior to ending their life, the victim or victims should be allowed to urinate or defecate on the soon to be dead. If you had more than one victim you could auction off the pissing event. I would then also set up the needle or electric switch duty on an auction basis. We could pay for the whole thing and maybe make a profit.I would also suggest that executions be on Pay for View TV.

Well, we have finally heard from the axis of crazy...too bad you're walking around with the "gay" disease...you guys would be so much happier living in an Islamic country...their system of justice is about as close as you can get to what you believe in. Too bad you would be moved to the top of the line for a beheading, a stoning or just a good ol' fashion hanging because you fooled around with the fellas.