There have been rumors that Cleveland has been part of various scenarios involving the Lakers and Magic, however Bob Finnan of The News-Herald believes they are likely out as the Cavs are unwilling to take back any of Orlando's bad contracts.

Nicastro13 wrote:Took this from Rumors central on espn, this cant possibly be true

There have been rumors that Cleveland has been part of various scenarios involving the Lakers and Magic, however Bob Finnan of The News-Herald believes they are likely out as the Cavs are unwilling to take back any of Orlando's bad contracts.

how stupid are we?

If even remotely true (our involvement or Finnan's report), they are playing the same game the Nets did, the Rockets have and the Lakers are. The burden is on Orlando to get something done. They play hardball as long as they can and at some point you shit or get off the pot. Maybe this gets them only 1 of the contracts instead of 2?

It isn't like LA and Orlando have a deal in place and the Cavs are holding things up.

Nicastro13 wrote:Took this from Rumors central on espn, this cant possibly be true

There have been rumors that Cleveland has been part of various scenarios involving the Lakers and Magic, however Bob Finnan of The News-Herald believes they are likely out as the Cavs are unwilling to take back any of Orlando's bad contracts.

how stupid are we?

I'm not entirely sure how the stupid scale is weighed. Are we saying Einstein on one side and any random Kardashian on the other side? In that case I like to consider myself not very stupid. Now if we go with the collective we then I think JB brings us down closer to the Kardashians. Also the 11 word 17 syllable tangents has to be driving away anyone with any actual ability to hold a thought so that's got to hurt.

I guess I'm going to say that we as a whole are Roberto Hernandez stupid. Smart enough to get through most of his life with a fake age and fake name. Dumb enough to get caught right at what should be the prime of his career.

Also 95% of the DH rumors connected to the Cavs this offseason have been completely made up so rumors of reasons why the Cavs didn't follow through on rumors that were made up almost completely out of thin air are probably not accurate enough to even make an ABC news report. And they just reported that JFK was shot by Ronald Reagan while attending a play at Ford's Theatre.

I cannot believe an elite player dictated who would coach him, got his way by being a bleeding vag, left a wake of destruction and dictated where he would play. And he ends up in a huge media market in the country and on a coast?

To be fair, a non-coast team made out like bandits in this deal as well. Bandits.

And Dewey, like CP3, refused to sign an extension and still made his way to a stud team, which is amazing. It's like baseball, except instead of prospects that aren't worth a shit going for the stud players you get young stars involved.

BTW: Let's not feel bad for Orlando here, the only team to do a worse job than the Cavs building around their star is the Magic. They fucked this thing up in incredible ways and proceeded to let Dewey control the org for half a year before dealing him.

It's far less about these great orgs being on the coasts (outside of the Lakers) and far more about who has talent to win titles.

e0y2e3 wrote:To be fair, a non-coast team made out like bandits in this deal as well. Bandits.

And Dewey, like CP3, refused to sign an extension and still made his way to a stud team, which is amazing. It's like baseball, except instead of prospects that aren't worth a shit going for the stud players you get young stars involved.

BTW: Let's not feel bad for Orlando here, the only team to do a worse job than the Cavs building around their star is the Magic. They fucked this thing up in incredible ways and proceeded to let Dewey control the org for half a year before dealing him.

It's far less about these great orgs being on the coasts (outside of the Lakers) and far more about who has talent to win titles.

Isn't the only reason he isn't signing an extension because he can sign a bigger deal by waiting? No way he leaves LA.

I will give you this. It is a lot like MLB. And that isn't a good thing.

He wanted to go to Brooklyn so bad he would have signed on there, he, like CP3 hasn't even promised to resign.

And it isn't like the MLB in that these guys aren't leaving because teams can't afford them, the NBA is simple: you have a guy for the start of his prime and if you fuck up building a team around them they aren't going to waste the second half of their primes sitting there praying you can correct all of your wrongs. Too many guys sat there and watched KG waste away in Minny.

Build a winner and you can keep your stars anywhere. Sell out for a fake contender for a year, get yourself in cap hell and you are completely fucked.

Plus, in the MLB you trade guys for shit sandwiches, in the NBA you get real returns

I mean, seriously, have you looked at that Orlando roster post that one bullshit run to the Finals?

And if we want to talk about disgruntled football players demanding trades over the years we can, because more franchised football players have been traded in the last decade than NBA studs.

Last edited by e0y2e3 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

e0y2e3 wrote:He wanted to go to Brooklyn so bad he would have signed on there, he, like CP3 hasn't even promised to resign.

And it isn't like the MLB in that these guys aren't leaving because teams can't afford them, the NBA is simple: you have a guy for the start of his prime and if you fuck up building a team around them they aren't going to waste the second half of their primes sitting there praying you can correct all of your wrongs. Too many guys sat there and watched KG waste away in Minny.

Build a winner and you can keep your stars anywhere. Sell out for a fake contender for a year, get yourself in cap hell and you are completely fucked.

Plus, in the MLB you trade guys for shit sandwiches, in the NBA you get real returns

I mean, seriously, have you looked at that Orlando roster post that one bullshit run to the Finals?

And if we want to talk about disgruntled football players demanding trades over the years we can, because more franchised football players have been traded in the last decade than NBA studs.

No disagreement, but I do find it ironic that every team in the deal improved themselves in except Orlando. That's funny. Wouldn't they have been better off taking the Nets deal? 3 Months ago?

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Affalo is a quality young starting SG, the other guys are young pieces and they got three firsts while dropping J-Rich's contract.

This is in no way some absurd/huge haul (out of all of these deals the Jazz still probably pulled the best one because they dealt the guy before any demands were made, with New Orleans having done okay if Gordon ever gets healthy), but it is WAY better for an organization than paying Brook Fucking Lopez max money.

Build a winner with young talent and people stay places, see San Antonio, OKC, etc.

Choke and the stars will demand to go to the coasts, it is that simple. And these middle America teams all took the same approach to building around their stars, huge contract vets/cap hell instead of drafting shit around them.

I'm not arguing that these guys will move East or West as soon as they hit their second FA if you fail to draft and build properly around them, but if you do they will stay.

Yes. Like Melo and Amare were drawn like flies to the right way the Knicks have historically done things. MIL has to be Near perfect and with perfect complement of players to have chance. And the league is full of far more superstars like Amare and Melo in terms of personality and media whoring than it is Durant and Duncan.

OKC might end up being worst thing ever to happen in NBA when all apologists use it as the needle in the haystack.

Like a young drafted nucleus of say, LeBron James and Carlos Boozer. They will stay. Crap, they trick their way out of town.

Edit: BTW, I think the Cavs would have a ring if Booz had stayed. They spent so much time looking for the elusive 4-man after he left. Z was a solid 5 at the time. Sure, they had some needs. But they could have just focused on those and not the 4-spot and probably been much more effective and concise with their FA monies.

Last edited by OldDawg on Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

1) The Knicks were the only team in the NBA that would offer an uninsurable Amare a max contract and the worse his knee gets the more fucked they are, terrible example.

2) Mil has nothing to trade for any superstar right now, notta, zilch, etc.

3) I am not in ANY WAY saying these guys won't run for the big markets and glammer after their second contracts if you fail to create a great, winning atmosphere around them. My only point is that if you do they will stay. The league is in no way perfect and it's pretty fucking hard to find them a young sidekick to run with and a great compliment of side-kicks... if you fail to do that in 6/7 years they are gone and running to the big markets.

There is ZERO arguing that they prefer being in a meh situation in NYC with another FA over staying on a capped out mess in the midwest where they are worshipped. My only point is if you are lucky enough to pull off putting a strong core around them THEY WILL stay. Show me the FA that left a true young nucleas/title conteder?

OldDawg wrote:Like a young drafted nucleus of say, LeBron James and Carlos Boozer. They will stay. Crap, they trick their way out of town.

Andy is a better all around player than Carlos Fucking Boozer.

Just stop.

The Bulls are paying Boozer $80MM to sit during every fourth quarter.

Booz was clearly much better when he was with the Cavs than he is now. He is nowhere near the player he was. He was an all-star quality player at the time. Wasn't he in the last olympics? (although didn't do much of anything). Not the same player now.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

No, Boozer has always been what he is and that has been AT MAX a third wheel on a playoff team. Guy has never defended, loafed on D and relied on his jump shot for an eternity. He never even came close to an in his prime Amare.

Boozer is possibly the most overrated player in the history of the Cavs. This team has had so much suck around it for so long people act like he was some sort of second wheel on a real team and he really, really wasn't. Guy got shit on in the playoffs every single year in Utah, just absolutely abused.

But my point eye is that, using your logic, Booz would have never left because the Cavs were drafting good solid players. He darted as soon as he could. Regardless of how good we think he is.

After we got LeBron, it was kinda hard to draft good players around him because we were winning more games and didn't have the opportunity to get great players. We got stuck to the trade and FA route. If there's a 6-team league, how many of those teams were built through the draft? One? Two tops. The very top teams have one, at most two, players that they drafted that are significant factors to them actually being elite.

The way to draft a great team is to have 2 or 3 crappy teams in a row and draft well. Er, like the Cavs just had...

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

So when all is said and done, the Rockets threw away Lowry, Dragic, Budinger, and Scola, gave Lin and Asik insane deals, and now have no superstar to trade for. On the bright side, they should be in the Wiggins/Jabari running in 2 years.

OldDawg wrote:But my point eye is that, using your logic, Booz would have never left because the Cavs were drafting good solid players. He darted as soon as he could. Regardless of how good we think he is.

After we got LeBron, it was kinda hard to draft good players around him because we were winning more games and didn't have the opportunity to get great players. We got stuck to the trade and FA route. If there's a 6-team league, how many of those teams were built through the draft? One? Two tops. The very top teams have one, at most two, players that they drafted that are significant factors to them actually being elite.

The way to draft a great team is to have 2 or 3 crappy teams in a row and draft well. Er, like the Cavs just had...

No, Carlos Boozer chased money to the huge market of Utah.

I'm not talking about a middling fuck like him, I am talking about stars and star sidekicks, not middle of the road 1-2x all-stars that are very prone to taking advantage of being massively overpaid.

This is a conversation about real players, not Carlos Boozers.

Middle to Upper Middle players chasing money is sports is something that will ALWAYS happen.

And no, it was hard to draft good players around Lebron because Paxson was a fucking crack-head.

He blew his top ten pick, he traded his next first for Jiri Welch and he collected a bunch of shitty middle of the road players that put the Cavs squarely in the middle of "eight seed" contention.

And for fucks sake, I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THE COASTAL TEAMS PLAY BY THE SAME RULES. But you have to bottom out the year you get your star and make sure you suck bad enough for the next 3 years you can build around them, not go chase a bunch of middle of the pack NBA Lifers so you can roll up eight seeds and trade first round picks like Paxson did.

And you have to not give Rashard Lewis $120MM like Orlando did.

This concept really isn't that tough to grasp and it admittedly takes a fuck-ton of luck, but for fucks sake if you build a good young core the guy will stay, if not he will most likely go East/West/South.

And listen, I don't give a fuck if it's a six team league. Just make it one for real and quit cocking around.

Oh.... and if it were a 6-team league and the Cavs players were entered in a dispersal draft, they'd have one fucking player picked. And he'd probably be a backup PG.

Here's what they should do:

Reduce league to 8 teams. New York, Boston, Brooklyn, Miami, Chicago, LA Lakers, Dallas, and Houston. 2 conferences of 4 teams each, NY, Boston, Miami, Brooklyn in the East and LA, Chicago, Dallas, and Houston in the West.

All other teams are reduced to ashes and all the players are subject to an NBA fantasy draft.

Only the Top 2 teams in each conference get into the playoffs, so it gives the regular season some meaning (finally). Top 2 teams in each conference play in 7 game Conference Championship series, then comes the NBA Finals.

Nothing left in the league but stars, so the ability of stars to leave small market teams to go play with their star buddies in large markets no longer exists because there are no small markets and there are no teams without stars.

Affalo is a quality young starting SG, the other guys are young pieces and they got three firsts while dropping J-Rich's contract.

This is in no way some absurd/huge haul (out of all of these deals the Jazz still probably pulled the best one because they dealt the guy before any demands were made, with New Orleans having done okay if Gordon ever gets healthy), but it is WAY better for an organization than paying Brook Fucking Lopez max money.

I guess I am mis-remembering, but wasn't the initial Nets offer BEFORE Lopez signed his max deal? Also, I think the picks involved at the time were unprotected.

Bottom line for me - the Brooklyn deal would have meant more flexibility in the future. Now, the Magic need to play the hand they're dealt (no expiring contracts.) The talent is improved, but it's also in Orlando for awhile. And I don't see much of a way to quickly build around it.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

The Knicks can be fucking stupid and have Amare and Melo on their roster. Stupid for years and fuck-nuts like those two whose talent exceeds their brains go there.

The mid-market teams need to be fucking perfect. It's next to impossible unless you get once in generation talents AND PEOPLE like Durant and Duncan.

The league is full of knuckleheads. They are attracted lights like big, stupid, entitled moths.

You need to be damn near flawless as an ORL, CLE, MIL, TOR, UTAH, DEN to pull it off.

I'm fine going to 8 teams. Fucking nuke shit like those teams above. Put two teams in LA, MIA, NY and one in BOS, one in CHI for all I care. It'd be better quality and more entertaining than this shit now.

Apologies to guys who live and breathe it but it's a fucking joke everywhere.

Although a lot of human debris like Deshawn Stevenson and Chris Anderson would be on the streets and unaccounted for.

e0y2e3 wrote:I don't get WTF you are talking about frankly.

1) The Knicks were the only team in the NBA that would offer an uninsurable Amare a max contract and the worse his knee gets the more fucked they are, terrible example.

2) Mil has nothing to trade for any superstar right now, notta, zilch, etc.

3) I am not in ANY WAY saying these guys won't run for the big markets and glammer after their second contracts if you fail to create a great, winning atmosphere around them. My only point is that if you do they will stay. The league is in no way perfect and it's pretty fucking hard to find them a young sidekick to run with and a great compliment of side-kicks... if you fail to do that in 6/7 years they are gone and running to the big markets.

There is ZERO arguing that they prefer being in a meh situation in NYC with another FA over staying on a capped out mess in the midwest where they are worshipped. My only point is if you are lucky enough to pull off putting a strong core around them THEY WILL stay. Show me the FA that left a true young nucleas/title conteder?

e0y2e3 wrote:Plus, in the MLB you trade guys for shit sandwiches, in the NBA you get real returns

No way. There aren't exactly many secrets as far as superstar basketball prospects, and the premium draft picks it takes to get them hardly ever hit the trade market. There are good young starters and rotation players available in these types of trades but never the franchise cornerstones you need for title contention. Granted, the Magic settled for a terrible offer here but even the reported best offer (the Houston one last month IMO), you have 3-4 picks in the teens and massive cap relief, not game changers. At least in baseball you have the chance to acquire an eventual superstar if you play your cards right. The Indians get shit sandwiches in those deals but that's because they're incompetent, not because of the sport's structure. Plus in baseball you can actually create a bidding war whereas in basketball your hands are tied by whichever nightlife meccas these shitheads deem worthy of their presence.

And you may be correct in that the glamour markets tend to have more talent to attract in-their-prime superstars to try and win titles. But if you don't think their locations help allow that to happen in the first place and create a self fulfilling prophecy, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

peeker643 wrote:I'm fine going to 8 teams. Fucking nuke shit like those teams above. Put two teams in LA, MIA, NY and one in BOS, one in CHI for all I care. It'd be better quality and more entertaining than this shit now.

Why 2 in Miami? It's the 16th biggest market, basically the same size as Cleveland's market. The only reason I included it is that so many of the "stars" are already there.

The Knicks can be fucking stupid and have Amare and Melo on their roster. Stupid for years and fuck-nuts like those two whose talent exceeds their brains go there.

The mid-market teams need to be fucking perfect. It's next to impossible unless you get once in generation talents AND PEOPLE like Durant and Duncan.

The league is full of knuckleheads. They are attracted lights like big, stupid, entitled moths.

You need to be damn near flawless as an ORL, CLE, MIL, TOR, UTAH, DEN to pull it off.

I'm fine going to 8 teams. Fucking nuke shit like those teams above. Put two teams in LA, MIA, NY and one in BOS, one in CHI for all I care. It'd be better quality and more entertaining than this shit now.

Apologies to guys who live and breathe it but it's a fucking joke everywhere.

Although a lot of human debris like Deshawn Stevenson and Chris Anderson would be on the streets and unaccounted for.

I realize the NFL and the Browns are dirt trash in terms of enjoyment at times, but this is a joke.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

But regardless, he didn't stay.With LeBron, he would have been good enough for us at 4, and we could have focused on FA and trade upgrades at 1, 2 and bench.

And it does just suck that the big market teams don't have to build their dynasties. Jabbar retires, well in a couple years we'll add Shaq. Shaq leaves, well in a few years we'll get DHoward. That's three of the best post people that have ever played the game in their primes and they didn't draft any of them. The Cavs get Shaq when he's washed up and hopes to sidekick with LeBron and waltz to another ring.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

Kingpin, the Magic could have traded the best center in the league for the second best center in the league, draft picks and cap space had they wanted to. That is a better trade than anything that has pretty much ever happened in the entirety of the MLB and/or the NFL.