Re: Girlfriend Post

This is a discussion on Re: Girlfriend Post within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I dont. (well actually I do but that seemed like a fun way to start the post :P)
Yes, its ...

Yeah, sorry snapped a little. Blame it on me being old. You're absolutely right, nobody can say what influences anybody, cos there are so many parameters involved. I have to agree with JDINGER tho' - at the end of the day, how you behave is down to you.

"This is bulls***, and just an excuse not to take responsibility for ones actions."

You mean, because it's not "nice" it can't be true?

"Your environment & genes affect who or what you are, but it's a denial of our sentience to say that we have no self-determination."

It's not a denial of our sentience at all, its a denial of our free will; which incidently cannot exist anyway without breaking every law of physics + has been demonstrated experimentally not to exist either:

They sat people in a lab with a button in front of them, they wired up their heads to a load of equipment and told them to press the button whenever they felt like it, the researchers watching the patterns of their brains knew that they were going to press the button half a second or so BEFORE THEY DID. The brain decides what it's going to do then let's us know.

They sat people in a lab with a button in front of them, they wired up their heads to a load of equipment and told them to press the button whenever they felt like it, the researchers watching the patterns of their brains knew that they were going to press the button half a second or so BEFORE THEY DID. The brain decides what it's going to do then let's us know.

So did their genes or environment tell them to push the button...... ??

You mean, because it's not "nice" it can't be true?

No, I mean it's bull****

I can't see inside your head, or anyone elses, but I know that I can make a concious decision on what my behaviour is going to be today. Genetics contributes. Environment contributes. Hell, my wife contributes. I decide. (And I defy anyone to PROVE otherwise)!!

"So did their genes or environment tell them to push the button...... ?? "

.... their brains CAUSED them to push the button, the function of the brain is soley dependant on the structure of the brain which is soley determined by genes and environment. There is no magic in biology.

"No, I mean it's bull**** "

Based on what?

"I can't see inside your head, or anyone elses, but I know that I can make a concious decision on what my behaviour is going to be today."

How do you know that? How do you know that your brain isn't making every decision for you and then letting you know aferwards?

It is natural to ASSUME that we have control because it FEELS like we do, but in fact we don't.

"(And I defy anyone to PROVE otherwise)!!"

You are simply wrong, your basis for your conclusions are on what "feels" right which is totally invalid.

You have fallen into the "if it FEELS like this, it must BE like this" trap. It is to be fair an easy trap to fall into. However consider this hypothetical:

Ok, lets say i stick chip in your head without you knowing, now lets say your walking along a road, and you come accross a fork in the road, now I hit a button on my keyboard that causes the chip in your head to make you decide to turn right.

Afterwards someone quizes you over freewill, and you swear that YOU chose to take the right road, that YOU make your decisions, simply because it FEELS that way.

Now infact there is no chip, the chip is simply the physical processes of your brain, the brain decides what to do, then lets us know afterwards.

"I just can't help but feel that the "genes/environment" argument is a nice excuse for antisocial behaviour"

Don't get me wrong, my thoughts on free-will don't alter my response to people who are bastards, people who act like bastards ........ me off, whilst inevitably I "rationalise" what they are doing as "bad" hence feel justified in my anger, in reality there is no rationalisation here, our anger is never logical, human behaviour is not founded on logic, its founded on evolutionary principles of surival.

I can't escape what I am, my behaviour is not governed by logic it is not rational and what runs through my head as the explanation for why I do things is not in anyway "true", BUT that doesn't mean i can't know whats really going on behind the scenes even if i am unable to act upon it.

Originally posted by Clyde "They sat people in a lab with a button in front of them, they wired up their heads to a load of equipment and told them to press the button whenever they felt like it, the researchers watching the patterns of their brains knew that they were going to press the button half a second or so BEFORE THEY DID. The brain decides what it's going to do then let's us know."

oookey Clyde I agreed with everything else you said but that could easily because of them thinking about it, eg:

"hmmm yeah ok time to push the button again" then reaching for it.

But I'd like to point out that none of us can prove to ANY extent whether we make our own decisions, one way or another. - all i'm saying is that its possible.

Well, I guess as neither of us has, or can prove anything, this discussion is pretty fruitless.

You are simply wrong, your basis for your conclusions are on what "feels" right which is totally invalid

That may be so, but it's hardly conclusive evidence.

I would love to believe there is no such thing as free will. It would make my life so much easier. I would sooner believe I lived in a world where there is free will than not. If I believed I lived in a world where there is no free will, I may as well give up the struggle now, and descend into anarchy!