- You just can't alter the way people think.- An AP is an AP, nothing changes that.- A progression player will usually remain a progression player.- New players are common, but the way they think varies.

These groups don't mix very well and nothing will ever change that.We have very few true AP's, lots of progression players and the majortyof the forum are newbees. These are observations limited to self and arenot a reflection on anyone, good or bad.

So, what are the suggestions, if any? Or for that matter should I even ask?

:lol: For me its important to treat people well...win or loose...when I go to play and have some fun Treat the dealer and other players with respect and try and inject a joke or 2 and it makes for some good times! Its great to win but if can you loose with a smile then the only thing the house got from you was some cash and not your self respect as well :wink:

Interesting - I play for the money and no other reason. For most of my life, I've played 9 ball pool, cut-throat stud and later BJ after I obtainedmy first and only job. During all that time, I've never seen a good orserious gambler that played for fun............There ain't any..............

I'm in it for the fun, also. The serious aspect of at least making the right decisions has vanished with the repetition. IMHO I can save my ego and attitude, and a spoiled trip by playing with the knowledge that some people are also playing for fun even if they don't know the right plays.

But I don't care much for juice players.... the ploppy types that can't stand a loss at all or a wrong play, and strenuously volcalize their differences. Nope, table ain't big enough for them, and the seat is too small.

My wife has told me for the last 30 years that I don't know how to havefun. She also tells me that I'm too serious and don't know how to justgo with the flow. Well, I do know It takes a lot of work and time if you expect to win at theBJ or poker tables. I don't see the effort as a negative. In my mindit is just another complex problem, just like work, and the reward is thesuccess & money. Maybe that is as close to having fun that I can get.

I think most APs fit that "not much fun" mode. My wife mentions that I practice incessantly. That I take _everything_ too seriously (when we look to buy something significant, whether it be a car, boat, or appliance, I always spend some time researching the options, the trouble reports, etc...)

I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I do _enjoy_ playing blackjack. Whether I would call it "fun" or not is much harder to answer. It is pretty "un-fun" to dump a $1000 stack of chips in 30 minutes...

With me, it is the challenge of mastering a mental challenge. It helps keep my brain sharp as it easily turns to mush whilst watching SpongeBob episodes with my daughter.

On the money side, hobbies often cost money in one way shape or form. Someone ask me about the cost of taking flying lessons a few years back. Around that time, I quit going to the bars where I was spending a fair amount on the weekends. I took that money and spent it on aviation, instead. Blackjack is no different as a hobby, except that there is the possibility of coming out ahead of the game if one's proficiency is good.

As said in an earlier post, I've only got in to the game over the last 2 months, after a holiday to vegas. Overall I KNOW that unless I can card count, in the long term I'll lose money, but there's just something so damn sexy about emerging from a dark sinister casino in to the dawn just $50/£70 up after being hunched round a table drinking and talking rubbish and playing blackjack with strangers for five hours. That's where the appeal is for me.

vegasmonkey,I disciplined myself first to learn perfect basic strategy. It will take a while just to do that. Even then, you will be among a very small percentage of players. I played 5 or 6 years before considering any AP methods. Another poster mentioned it, but do get Fred Renzey's book, BJ Bluebook II. (By the way, you don't have to wait as long as I to learn card counting).

My take is that if I can't have fun, I ought to be doing something else. There can be a littlepressure on good players, and the more dead serious they act, the less they are welcome.If the player is friendly and hospitable to thestaff and other players, pretty soon he will besurrounded by casual players. Then, the house has a tendency to forget about the good player,since the house is making money. Doyle Brunson is about as serious about winningpoker as it gets; but, you'd never guess thatwatching him play. That's my role model.

Good thread. I thought I was the one who had a serious problem when I first started counting for real in a casino. My counting partner told me to chill and treat it as a hobby. I totally disagreed with him and he told me I wasn't cut out for card counting. We had a difference in opinion and I always respected it. The best conclusion to make is that everyone has a different approach on what they want to achieve.

Playing for fun is just not me. When I play for real money in a real casino and I have spent 2 years (on and off) of my time trying to master the skills of counting and building up a BR I definately take this game seriously everytime I step foot in a casino and expect some kind of return in the long run. I am a sore looser so I get mad very easily.

Even though I am in it for soley for the money, I do get alot of gratitude from watching all the correct moves and all the math prove itself at the table even if I do loose what I bought in for for the day. That shows you your practices has been worth the time. If I make an error during a session at the casino then I am very hard on myself for it. I'll go back and review and practice so I don't make that same mistake.

I consider myself an intense AP player and I am to the book on everything.

My take is that if I can't have fun, I ought to be doing something else. There can be a littlepressure on good players, and the more dead serious they act, the less they are welcome.If the player is friendly and hospitable to thestaff and other players, pretty soon he will besurrounded by casual players.

WORD! :DI'll start out at a new table. and before long I the table is full and we play a long time. I don't get sore when I loose 4 split 6's to a dealers 6 up. As what happened last Saturday. Sometimes the house pulls rabbits out of the hat and defies the math and thats the risk vs reward you take. I like to see others get interesting hands and cheer them on when they win a boatload. I also like when someone will offer to double on their hand if they are out of chips. I know I check out the people at different tables before I sit down at one. If I see a sore looser or heckler I'll move on to somewhere else. :)

I agree. Patience and self-control are very important. I play BJ for the money. I have fun because I am a confident counter and a fairly disciplined money manager. I have taken my lumps like most players, but usually when good counting, proper basic strategy and disciplined money management meet, profits follow.

Ray-I say this-a progression player will remain a progression player until he reads Blackjack Bluebook II by Fred Renzey and then he will become an Advantage Player. I'm living proof! Best of luck to all and a happy and prosperous new year to all!Prog