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00:29:59 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19-a0-811-gf4045fb (34)
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00:45:05 fun lab gif: http://i.imgur.com/xNBwmfb.gif
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00:49:28 aww
00:49:43 i was hoping you meant "the fun laboratory"
00:49:58 as opposed to a "fun" gif of a labyrinth
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01:02:32 ProzacElf: here's a gif of a fun labyrinth http://i.imgur.com/HjJIqrP.gif
01:03:17 ah yes
01:03:18 the image does not exist
01:03:30 clearly, a philosophical conundrum
01:03:43 is it truly a labyrinth if it only exists in my mind?
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01:06:09 ceci n'est pas une tedium
01:07:08 you're a pipe
01:07:12 !
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01:23:01 Slime Progress is, yet again, almost a good clan name
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01:28:53 good enough for Canada, not good enough the 'Murica
01:29:05 s/the/for the/
01:38:47 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-812-g33f3bc8: A comment on brands (elliptic) 10(31 seconds ago, 1 file, 37+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/33f3bc883f30
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01:42:49 http://puu.sh/pIGZC/2e35603285.png
01:42:54 more slime progress :toot:
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02:00:34 great, canofworms is promulgating slime porn now
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02:09:05 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-812-g33f3bc8 (34)
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02:16:42 !tell wheals https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewforum.php?f=17
02:16:43 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know.
02:16:45 er
02:17:03 !tell wheals https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20509 ignore prev linkl
02:17:03 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know.
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02:17:45 how is that happening?
02:18:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.]
02:18:11 if no monsters/danger is in sight, is it just spurious interuption without any reason?
02:18:41 i am betting you it's some kind of message interrupt
02:18:47 possibly 'you continue eating' is interrupting eating
02:20:09 solution: remove food
02:20:40 remove.....players...leave only food
02:21:13 you start crawl, it's a 2x1 box with a bread ration, and you die instantly
02:21:22 gammafunk: in my experience, the "danger" is, your rc tells you to eat, but while you're eating you go from satiated to 'hungry' and that interrupts
02:21:45 who dies if there's no player?
02:21:56 the player dies, instantly
02:22:01 they're alive for less than 1 aut
02:22:09 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
02:22:22 what?
02:22:38 you believe life begins at conception too?
02:22:54 I don't believe that players are conceived
02:23:07 they're an emergant property of scum
02:23:23 well, so are people, but we let them stick around for some reason
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02:24:04 this new version of crawl would fix that bug
02:24:06 oh great, siegurt is here and now i have to act like i have reasonable ideas
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02:24:39 message interrupts are super fucking coarse and it's really hard to keeping them from causing trouble
02:24:43 Well, no you can act like you have unreasonable ideas, as long as you are reasonable about it :)
02:24:59 frankly, if crawl just kicked me back to the character selection screen like 10 times in a row, i'd at least just forget about it
02:25:02 eventually
02:25:05 did you guys see riposte
02:25:14 youse guyses
02:25:36 PF: does it happen before or after i tell the game i still want to eat?
02:25:42 =p
02:25:46 but no, i have not
02:26:00 %git c2d7a382fcf87d19c8c6dbb39bd45a203ce4a2f0
02:26:00 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-810-gc2d7a38: Long blade ability: Riposte 10(11 hours ago, 3 files, 51+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c2d7a382fcf8
02:26:09 ah sweet
02:26:17 the best weapons got better?
02:26:23 lol
02:26:28 %git 077ccc12f73ff6a55c351f130ed8ee01238d92a4
02:26:28 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-811-g077ccc1: Adjust long blade damage for riposte (elliptic) 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 14+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/077ccc12f73f
02:26:34 this is on a branch right now
02:26:38 lol
02:26:40 i might merge it soon if no one tells me it's a bad idea
02:27:19 i think i am just about the only person who thinks lblades are the best weapons
02:27:42 because you get your minmays and your crates who get all autistic about it and want to fsim everything
02:27:58 or people who want to tell you that cleave and reaching make up for it
02:28:07 or that maces don't cut hydra heads
02:28:13 I do think the niche they currently fill (high damage, rarer than maces) isn't a bad one.
02:28:19 but i'm here to hold up the honor of lblades
02:28:23 But it's not terribly interesting.
02:28:55 it's also not really a niche they hold
02:28:59 it's more of a meme
02:29:31 Well, it's true that triple swords are rarer than great maces, but that's about the extent of it's "true" ness
02:29:36 yeah
02:29:38 * geekosaur considers grumping about "get all autistic about it"
02:29:39 yeah, i've never once had a game where i was using lblades that i couldn't find a dblade or 2sword
02:29:50 I have.
02:30:02 But great swords don't suck
02:30:09 geekosaur: i'll apologize if you're actually on the spectrum
02:30:12 geekosaur: that is a generous and good thing to grump about, but i can't find it in me to really care
02:30:24 not just on it but fairly far out on it
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02:30:30 hrm, man, that came out the wrong way
02:30:32 sorry :(
02:30:33 ok, i'm sorry
02:30:46 that was an unfair way to put it
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02:32:06 PF: I think the numbers would be close to right if the chance of it activating were about 1:3 or 1:4 and long blades got a similar -2 base damage that polearms and axes got when they got their 'special' ability.
02:32:09 i have an autistic nephew who is so far on the spectrum that his parents actually need to figure out who is going to take care of him soon
02:32:33 ...otoh Im one of the rare ones who didn't get cognitive issues along for the ride
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02:33:36 Siegurt: they already have the -damage; 1/3 might be reasonable but i think 1/2 is a reasonable place to start
02:33:38 and we can nerf as necessary
02:33:40 anyway, my point was that it's not that hard to get your weapon of choice
02:33:58 unless you just get screwed on acquirement
02:34:01 Yea, probably reasonable, actually now that I think about it more (since it requires a miss)
02:34:11 or you're dumb enough to actually take wands on acquirement
02:34:27 i mean, i love polymorph and iceblast as much as the next guy
02:34:54 Bah, I've had a game where I got neither ?acquire nor boots by the time I won the game....
02:34:54 but i could also get a double sword, or broad axe, or quickblade
02:35:00 instead of wasting my time on a wand
02:35:01 RNG is RNG :)
02:35:27 lol
02:35:29 true
02:35:31 in this episode, prozacelf acquires a +3 hand crossbow of flame
02:35:40 dumb enough...to take wands....
02:35:43 better than a wand acquirement
02:35:52 has ProzacElf actually played crawl
02:36:01 or has he just read tavern a lot
02:36:12 xom is better at giving good wands than acquirement scrolls are
02:36:18 ...or ##crawl for that matter
02:36:22 well...here's the thing
02:36:23 no he isn't
02:36:23 lol
02:36:41 ok, ok
02:36:45 i'm exaggerating
02:36:48 and I can't understand why you would think that if you'd ever actually acquired wand
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02:37:16 i acquire wand about half the time
02:37:39 because i can't justify any other acquirement
02:37:59 I'm pretty sure it's confirmation bias. My experience is that wand acquirement is about as suckful as all the other varieties, but with a smaller pool it's actually slightly more likely to be useful than, say, armour acq
02:37:59 and about 2/3 of the times i do, i get some bullshit
02:38:14 weapon is the only good acquirement
02:38:25 wand acquirement is often not the best first acquirement
02:38:30 sometimes not even the best second
02:38:37 but it's often a good acquirement in a game a crawl
02:38:44 if that's the game we're actualy talking about
02:38:45 look, i know acquirement is garbage anyway
02:38:48 most of the time
02:39:05 but i just think that people saying wand is always the thing to do are lying
02:39:33 honestly I think you're just making a bunch of stuff up to be punchy more than anything
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02:39:47 I get a lot of good acquirements from wand, which is why I take it (when it's appropriate)
02:40:08 same reason why I do a lot of weapon and armour acquirements
02:40:17 hello
02:40:21 does anyone want in for the trunk thingo
02:40:28 ok, there's a little hyperbole here
02:40:45 but i seriously rank wand about 4th
02:40:59 in terms of what i get
02:41:22 weapon, armor, armor again, wand if i don't have *any* of the good wands
02:41:50 or if i really need a second /tele
02:42:40 I like acquiring armor too, but it would probably be better (increase my chances of winning) to acquire wand more often than I do (and I do choose wands quite often these days)
02:42:48 granted, i probably have a little recency bias here
02:43:05 wand is often a 3rd or 4th acquirement, not too infrequently a second, which means wand is a pretty good acquire
02:43:06 Hmm, actually I guess wand acquirement might be a little worse now that wands of cold and fire don't exist
02:43:25 because the last several times i did wand acquirement, it didn't only give me a crap wand, but it was also one i already had at least one of
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02:43:39 But if I have identified most of the common wands, it's a really strong choice
02:44:30 that will change if /haste and/or /hw go away but in current crawl it's a pretty good choice. It's not really different from doing armour acquire and getting some useless piece of armour. I don't think people recommending wand acquire would rank it above weapon acquire for chars that need a weapon upgrade, for example
02:45:06 Right, I would acquire weapon if I don't have a good one
02:45:14 it's not an acquirement that's good no matter what, but if it where, we'd damn sure remove that
02:45:16 everyone recommends that
02:46:00 recommends what, wand acquire over upgrading a weapon?
02:46:01 i'm not even saying that anything should change
02:46:19 huh, no, "acquire a weapon if you don't have a good one"
02:46:51 well you said "the people that always recommend wand acquire"
02:47:11 oh, you're calling back to that
02:47:29 even they don't recommend wand over weapon
02:47:31 usually
02:47:54 but i just think that armor is always a better choice
02:48:04 almost always
02:48:22 anyway, i'm not arguing for a change here
02:48:34 i just think that wand acquirement is bogus
02:48:47 yeah it's not almost always; it's based on what your armour situation is and what your wand situation
02:48:51 is
02:49:42 http://i.imgur.com/dl7aXwH.png
02:49:55 You kill like 80% of your xl17 chars, so you probably play a different style of crawl
02:49:59 compared to people who just want to win
02:50:07 lol
02:50:11 most of the time the advice given is centered on winning
02:50:17 stop linking that image, it's out of date
02:50:31 Heheh
02:50:31 acq choice still isn't interesting though
02:50:31 wow
02:50:34 Sorry, is there an up to date one?
02:50:44 no
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02:50:54 But it's so awesome :)
02:51:03 also wand acquirement is good no matter what
02:51:46 I should have said "the right choice no matter what"
02:52:13 really dcss should just use the crawl light approach since an unspoiled player would need to perform a very large number of trials to get enough information about the different acquirements to actually make an informed decision about them
02:52:33 and that informed decision is an extremely easy one IME
02:52:48 what's the crawl light approach?
02:53:07 all acquirements are performed, you are shown the results and pick one
02:53:15 heh
02:53:29 kind of cool
02:53:38 I agree, would like to see this
02:53:47 we'd probably want to adjust how good each result is
02:53:49 it does make the decision even more of a no-brainer but...it basically already is
02:53:52 but yeah that could be fun
02:54:00 bit of a UI nightmare
02:54:17 and I don't see a way to keep unknown item acquirement choice without it requiring massive spoilers
02:54:25 We already have Gozag's potion petition, it's gonna be similar.
02:55:00 I say "the crawl light approach" because it literally is in crawl light, to be clear
02:55:38 it's many lines, but if Op can deal with that every time they want to put on a ring, I think other characters can deal with it every time they use a scroll of acquirement
02:56:13 also, now you have "improve the UI" as an excuse to remove food/ammo acquirement, if you wanted to do that (I forget who wanted to do that (other than me))
02:57:33 Yermak: similar, but there's going to be a lot more things to list
02:58:20 I think I saw this suggestion somewhere: player gets to choose only from 3 random categories.
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02:58:34 I think it's better than all at once.
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02:59:09 not sure I like the 3 random categories thing much
02:59:14 that's a little too random for me
02:59:36 Yeah, most of the categories are mostly not useful except in rare circumstances.
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03:00:16 it could be more than 3
03:00:35 otherwise it would be just wand of heal wounds most of times
03:01:01 hrm, now that most ammo has ego removed...well I guess if you want ammo you want ammo
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03:01:29 incidentally.....
03:01:31 Well, there's only 9 categories, it's not like you read acquirement that often...
03:01:40 the off-brand ammo store seems a little weird now
03:01:47 I think a menu of 9 choices isn't awful.
03:01:52 because it's like half large rocks
03:02:11 I wonder how you can show things like artefacts
03:02:26 just have a key that opens up the item desc
03:02:32 which you'd probably need for most items anyhow
03:02:51 I'd assume it'd be fairly shop-like, as an interface
03:03:06 maybe a shop-like menu would be the way really
03:03:13 wheals might have good ideas about that
03:03:42 but I also don't know what others think; maybe we'd need to lessen the quality of acquirement results to some degree, perhaps not (or not much)
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03:04:29 =p
03:04:31 I guess one of the biggest changes is when you do something like acquire wand and get a junk wand, in this system you'll never end up with junk
03:04:32 If anything I'd rather they just be made slightly rarer, if it's percieved that free choice was too powerful.
03:04:45 perhaps, yeah
03:05:10 do people even acquire ammo that often?
03:05:17 is there a way to track that/
03:05:18 ?
03:05:31 But if the choices are: junk wand, junk weapon, some armour you don't want to use, you just pick like gold or something, which doesn't seem like an overpowered result.
03:07:03 !tell wheals http://i.imgur.com/bzFolCH.png
03:07:03 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know.
03:07:26 that level layout is so sick
03:07:42 whoa
03:07:47 that is the truth
03:08:12 I selected 'no'
03:08:23 if you say n, do you end up on the previous floor with magic psychic understanding of the next
03:08:24 how could you? you were too spooked
03:08:31 chequers: sadly no
03:08:42 also, that's the same thing that happens when you force_more portal timer messages
03:09:00 portal announce messages*, I guess
03:09:44 !always be eating
03:09:44 ABE! A-Always! B-Be! E-Eating! Always Be Eating! ALWAYS BE EATING!
03:09:55 anyway i died so it doesn't matter
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03:10:35 ps nerf, uh, orcs?
03:10:38 yes.
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03:12:36 nerf orcs by changed PleasingFungus' password, then he'll not die to them
03:12:40 *changing
03:13:01 actually nerf..
03:13:03 !lg . gfspeed
03:13:08 3086. gammafunk the Chopper (L5 MiGl of Uskayaw), mangled by an ogre (a +0 giant club) on D:4 on 2016-06-28 03:10:05, with 223 points after 964 turns and 0:04:36.
03:13:33 yeah ogres can't be tanked even with usk unless you have some piety
03:13:53 not in chain with the starting war axe, at least
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03:23:40 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.19-a0-812-g33f3bc8 (34)
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05:53:54 Yermak (L23 FeHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 668: screen write out of bounds: (1,0) into (80,24) (Depths:5)
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08:51:55 !tell elliptic Regarding the proposed weapon nerfs for riposte, wouldn't this make great swords worse than double swords in literally every single way (same base damage, more skill investment for mindelay, more of an accuracy penalty, 2handed vs 1handed)?
08:51:56 Lightli: OK, I'll let elliptic know.
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12:27:30 !crashlog yermak
12:27:32 11. Yermak, XL23 FeHe, T:72457 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/Yermak/crash-Yermak-20160628-095342.txt
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12:38:27 mysterious
12:38:28 wheals: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them.
12:38:34 :O
12:38:36 !messages
12:38:36 (1/4) koboldina said (18h 56m 1s ago): your shirt is on the way, you should have a tracking number in your inbox now. enjoy!
12:38:38 !messages
12:38:39 (1/3) PleasingFungus said (10h 21m 57s ago): https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewforum.php?f=17
12:38:40 !messages
12:38:41