Is Johnson a realistic Second Amendment alternative to Clinton and Trump?

Libertarian presidential candidate and former governor of New Mexico Gary Johnson during a CNN town hall Wednesday night defended current gun control laws, saying he would not seek to roll them back should he be elected into office.

Johnson was joined by running mate Bill Weld, former governor of Massachusetts, and said he could support an assault weapons ban, but would not support outlawing semi-automatic rifles.

The presidential candidate said he disagrees with the efforts of both Democratic and Republican legislators who seek to keep guns from Americans on the federal government’s secret terrorist database, which reportedly includes a terror watchlist, a no-fly list and other similar lists.

“All of these government lists are subject to error,” Johnson said.

However, both candidates said they are open to legislation which would keep guns out of the hands of potential terrorists and also the mentally ill. They also proposed the formation of an FBI task force which would treat Islamic State terrorists like an organized crime syndicate and not like a group of military combatants.

Despite his proposed support of an assault weapons ban, Johnson has a consistent pro-gun stance, having gone on record strongly supporting absolute gun rights, according to Ballotopia.

After a mass shooting in Orlando on June 12 – when a gunman killed 49 people and injured 53 others at a gay nightclub – Johnson said Americans would be safer with looser gun regulation, USA Today reported.

“All these atrocities have been happening in gun-free zones,” Johnson said. “If there were law-abiding citizens that were carrying weapons – I’m not saying they would lessen the impact of these horrible atrocities, but maybe, maybe they could.”

In his 2012 book “Seven Principles of Good Government,” Johnson said he supports gun ownership rights and in 2011 he told Playboy Magazine that gun control laws don’t work. If the government outlaws guns, he wrote, then only the outlaws will have guns.

Among the pro-gun legislation signed by Johnson was HB 112, which aimed to protect New Mexico shooting ranges from noise-based nuisance lawsuits seeking to shut them down.

Some Libertarians feel the National Rifle Association should have endorsed Johnson instead of Donald Trump, who the group threw its weight behind during its annual convention in Louisville, Kentucky, last month.

“A Libertarian Future” started as a Facebook page after the 2012 election when Johnson received more than 1 million votes, according to the group’s website.

“The fact remains that the NRA has other options,” J. Wilson wrote. “They never should have endorsed someone with Donald Trump’s record on guns. It shows to the Democrats that the NRA is okay with the gun control that Trump has supported in the past. That goes against every one of their members’ beliefs.”

In promoting last night’s Libertarian town hall, CNN billed the ticket as a possible alternative to both Trump and Hillary Clinton, offering voters a way out of a “lesser of two evils” proposition that has historically caused some – particularly young – Americans to shy away from the political process. Still, critics claim a vote for Johnson will give Clinton the presidency and that Trump is the stronger candidate to defeat the former Secretary of State.

The NRA’s legislative gradebook only started in 2002, a year before Johnson left the governor’s seat, where he served since 1995. Weld, also a two-term governor, served his state from 1991 to 1997 and wasn’t graded by the NRA.

The NRA declined to comment about the Libertarian ticket and has remained silent on its stance, likely standing behind the choice it made to keep an appearance of consistency. With talk of rule change at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Ohio – where Guns.com will be in attendance – effectively pulling the GOP nomination from Trump, Johnson seems like a more viable option. He will still need to get 15 percent in public polls to be able to participate in the presidential debates, which could inject new life into the Libertarian’s campaign.

Richard Feldman, former NRA lobbyist and president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association, donated to Johnson and Weld’s campaign. He knows “both Gary and Bill Weld,” Feldman said in an email to Guns.com. Johnson stayed at his house five years ago in New Hampshire and he worked for Weld in the mid-1970s when he ran for Massachusettes attorney general, Feldman said.

Obviously the legality varies by jurisdiction but unless he is smoking some laced with another substance or otherwise enhanced the general effects have been shown to be less severe than the consumption of alcohol. Whether you agree with Government control of a substance or not, it’s important to understand that these laws just like many older gun control laws were born out of a conscious attempt to single out minorities by systematic making it harder on them. Despite established scientific criteria for a substance to be classed as a controlled substance, marijuana has continued to be controlled not because it meets those criteria but because it was grandfathered in. If we are to insist on the even handed application of Due Process when it comes to guns we must insist on it in every place the Government says “no,” otherwise we are just as guilty of complacency in the face of an injustice.

alcohol is bad enough. Even the National Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws admits that about a third of the accidental deaths attributed to drunk drivers involved the use of marijuana at the same time by those drivers. It is known that one of the worst accidents in recent history on the AMTRAK system came when the engineers of a CONRAIL (government-owned freight railroad) were stoned on marijuana and slammed into the rear of a stalled AMTRAK passenger train in Maryland, killing sixteen people several years ago and injuring many more. Federal laws have stated for a long time that bus drivers, over the road truck drivers, airline pilots and anyone and everyone else who operates equipment or plants that may harm the public have to submit to regular drug tests for the presence of both Marijuana and alcohol.

Or do you advocate that a person responsible for the control of a nuclear power plant, hydroelectric power plant, oil-, gas- or coal-fired power plant, or a chemical processing plant that handles hazardous chemicals be allowed to operate such systems without ensuring that they are not high on some drug like marijuana?

aka_mythos

That’s hyperbolic and the same type of rhetoric that says guns cause gun crimes. I’m not advocating the abusive use of anything. Advocating a person act irresponsibly on the job, by working under the influence is no different than advocating a police officer or individual shoot a firearm into the air in a residential area. It is not the thing that is wrong it is the abuse and negligence of an individual’s actions that are wrong.

Abusive and negligent behavior are the crime everything else is just control.

Even if marijuana were 100% legal to possess and use criminal statutes on operating a vehicle under the influence of a substance would still be applicable. And just as a history of alcohol or prescription drug addiction and abuse can disqualify a person from certain jobs so should marijuana and no one is advocating that change.

IamThe Ghost

Due Process is for Peoples Rights not objects like pot or guns. Pot laws are being administratively challanged with some State success. I don’t give a damn about pot, just keep it out of my brownies don’t do that crap in my vicinity.

aka_mythos

Due Process with regards to firearms was in reference to recent attempt to keep people from purchasing firearms because of a list that is baseless and arbitrary.

Due Process with regards to marijuana comes from the standing that certain individuals have. So far two of the nine different circuit courts have recognized that an absolute ban on marijuana is a violation of those individuals fundamental right to Due Process; they have shown standing through their recognized medical need, where by the arbitrary ban based on history and not on scientific classification of the substance violates their right to Due Process. It is because the current legal apparatus deprives them of something medically prescribed without recourse and without a means of acting lawfully. Right to Due Process extends to administrative laws, and the courts have recognized that the FDA by classifying marijuana as a particular class of controlled substance deprives people of something that can preserve their quality of life. To that end, in the eyes of the court it is a punishment without a crime.

Didn’t Johnson also say something like Jewish bakers should be forced to make Nazi cakes?
So, he’s a libertarian who sucks at libertarian-ing.

FightFireJay

Didn’t he throw George Washington’s pistol in the trash?

Feral Gryphon

I think it was a replica, but still stupid.

KCTed

It was a cheap gift store replica, which was given to him like some sort of heirloom, by Petersen,, who then made concession speech that was very slanderous to the nominated ticket. It was a sleazy set-up from sour grapes. I wouldn’t have tossed it in the trash, I would have smacked Petersen with it, then tossed him in the trash.
I don’t have the patience Gary has.

IamThe Ghost

Were stuck with trump. Now all the people that slammed the other viable Republican canidates better start putting money in trumps cup.

Mr Gadget

Johnson and his gun control running mate, Weld, are complete idiots and most libertarians are embarrassed and should be.

“Despite his proposed support of an assault weapons ban, Johnson has a
consistent pro-gun stance, having gone on record strongly supporting
absolute gun rights,”

Up is down. Geez, such a combination of words, yet so lacking in sense of any kind, much less sense of the common kind.
It is a plain example of trying to have it both ways, trying to have cake and eat it too. Want another? Want to see the poker tell in spades? Ok, here it is.

Now, at first glance, this seems like something to cheer. But look carefully and the tell sticks out like a sore thumb. The word is “Allowed”.
We are not “allowed” by government, we are empowered, as a matter of right (both privilege and immunity) despite and even absent the presence of government itself!

And then this…

““The fact remains that the NRA has other options,” J. Wilson wrote.
“They never should have endorsed someone with Donald Trump’s record on
guns. It shows to the Democrats that the NRA is okay with the gun
control that Trump has supported in the past. That goes against every
one of their members’ beliefs.””

This is right on point. The NRA could actually start to support the Second Amendment, rather than government control over it.But that ends up being the pot calling the kettle black. The NRA factually does support a whole host of gun control, and I do mean gun control outside criminal control, but so do those folks who present the ‘we are allowed by government” drivel and the Second Amendment “gives us” a right.

Slicksters of many stripes like to say that rights aren’t absolutes. Well you know what? The first two specifically listed for all to see are quite overtly and directly spelled out as absolute. Congress shall make NO law and SHALL NOT BE infringed is as absolute as it gets. Indeed, that is as absolute as a person saying no to the sexual advances of another MEANING no in the absolute. No means NO!, absolutely.

Now, lets address this “he cannot win” and “viable”. Polls polls polls, eh? Yeah, it is time to toss out that pathetic bit of garbage too. Got England? Got Brexit? Yeah, the Polls said that wasn’t going to happen too, it was just impossible the media said, just like anything BUT a Democrat or a Republican is impossible, so too was Brexit. It is a media based con, repeated and repeated until so many are conned into it that it becomes what happens.

But what happens when people actually think for themselves and vote their own way, discarding the “polls”? Well, just as it was said Trump could never win the primary, a Johnson type candidate could just as easily catch fire and win the general. It is not impossible. In fact, anything is possible up until the time the votes are actually counted.

Now, one more bit of pathetic drama…..this idea that a vote for Johnson is just a vote for Hillary. Oh come on now, knock off the foolishness. That is just HYPE, more media spew, trying to con people into the notion that democrats and republicans are owed and anything not allocated to them is somehow untoward. For instance, how about the large portion of SANDERS voters who refuse to vote for Hillary? If those folks vote a Johnson direction, is that a vote for Hillary because it isn’t a vote for Trump? How ridiculous is that?! They are pretty solid Democrat votes in the first place, so how is a refusal to vote for a Hillary turned into a vote FOR Hillary just because it isn’t a vote for Trump?

It is simple and plain dishonesty exposed. The lie that such a line is becomes spotlighted out in the open for all to see. And as such, the liar telling that lie is also exposed.

A vote for Johnson is simply that, a vote for Johnson. A write in is simply that, a write in. A refusal to vote for Trump is also exactly that, a simple withholding of a vote from a person. A refusal to vote for Hillary is nothing more than a refusal to vote for Hillary. It is not a vote for Trump, or Johnson for that matter. It is time to stop falling for the con.

Let’s say I vote Republican all the way down the ballot, yet vote Johnson at the “top” of it. Snarky and misleading pundits will actually try to claim that is a vote for Hillary and the Democrats. ALL those votes for republicans are simply disregarded, all for a political congame trying to play a guilt trip – as if the republican nominee is owed the vote, or the democrat nominee is owed the vote – and how DARE anyone decide that ummmm no, neither is owed a dang thing and not one person in this country is beholden to either party or its nominee.

Even the “15%” claim is just an arbitrary line placed in order to further the false ‘only democrats and republicans are allowed” comedy show. Quite frankly speaking, if 400 people want to be on the ballot for a particular office, even the Presidency, then so be it! Everyone qualified has the right to stand for election if they so choose and media, like the parties themselves, do not have the authority to shut people out. That kind of prohibition is no different than a rifle ban.

People have to finally see that the democrat party and the republican party are not permanent fixtures within government and neither has any claim to it, much less the authority to prohibit, blockaide, or otherwise lock everyone else out of the ballot and out of the election – you know, the REAL election. Primaries are not the real election, they are just private party popularity contests that have ZERO to do with actual government.

I know I write longer comments than a lot of people, but I do so because twitter comments ain’t gonna solve the complex problems this nation has. One liners and segmented politics in between commercials isn’t going bring about resolution either. I contend that structure is in part why things are so screwed up in the first place. Soundbites and that segmentation has played its part in the evolution of political correctness. Oh and let’s call political correctness what it is – the justification of lies by the liars who tell the lies and hide their lies in tiny short one liners.

Personally, I think Johnson is a LiberALtarian. He is just another tool being used by the two other parties in the longstanding game of presenting the “two major parties” as the only selection “worthy’. When it comes down to it, the vast majority of people in this country are quite libertarian in their politics WHEN you talk to them in detail. They are lower cased l liberty minded people who fully disagree with things another person does, but do not care what another does provided two things are true – A) those things done do not bring actual harm to another human being or their property and B) they themselves are free to do as they please even if others disagree with what they are doing.

Example – I can disagree with a gay guy, thinking what he does is as nasty as the day is long while that gay guy thinks that my gun ownership is as repulsive to him as his gayness is to me but understands and agrees that he is free to pursue his happiness just like I am free to pursue mine. We find unity in our common desire to be individually free, respecting each other’s rights, and we end up standing side by side fighting together against those who would divide us along the lines of guns and gayness.

Think of it as the biggest “deal” ever made. You do your thing and I will do mine. That is actually as equal as it gets. Sure, that gay fella can tell me he despises my guns, and I can do the same to him about his chosen path, BUT the difference is we stop right there, understanding that speech rights do not somehow translate into some magical power to force straightness or disarmament. That is the REAL heart of small l libertarianism.

Who has the most to gain by destroying that core set of principles, that unity factor? Well, democrats and republicans of course! If people see that there is a alternative, of the people get the idea that others think as they do- that dems and pubs suck eggs- then dems and pubs lose the paradigm, lose the framing, lose the false idea that only a dem or a pub “can win”, then they risk losing POWER.

Now, consider this – the very thing the founders of this country fought for was for “government” to LOSE POWER, so the people could regain the power of individual liberty for themselves.

That small l libertarian sentiment is EXACTLY what has driven the Trump Train. The politicos know that sentiment is brewing and they want to keep everything on those railroad tracks. SO Democrats put up the worst two candidates possible in order to drive many voters away, but that only works if they drive enough away to influence the primary vote on the “other side”. And it worked, better than it has ever worked. Indeed, we see a long time democrat donor and hobknobber, a New York Progressive Liberal, and media hypester as well, and even a Clinton supporter winning the republican primary! The ultimate flip flopper took the ball and ran with it – and sadly, rubes bought it all……again.

As Britain just turned away from the EU, so too must the American people turn away from the “only a dem or a pub can win”. Is Johnson the right person? When he said out kids better start learning Mandarin I decided he was not. He is just another cog, another player, in the same old machine. He is just another who thinks we win by surrendering. Now, like Donald, he will say this and that now, busting himself, not unlike Hillary does too. Their various fans will all claim none of them do it – even though their own words are right there to see. Of course, they will try to explain it all away, spin it up, pretend they aren’t busted whenever they are.

Why do anything different when people refuse to punish them by withholding their votes from them? Why make a change when they literally get away with lying every dang day?

If they want to play “lesser of two evils” games, then turn it right back on them and say fine, then by all means let’s play lesser of three evils! Oooops. Hoisted. Petard. ahem.

All things considered, how juicy and deeeelicious would it be to see neither Hillary NOR Donald win this election, to see a Johnson run away with the general “bigly”, seeing the demo party AND the pub party left wondering what the heck just happened?

You know who has the power and authority to make that happen? YOU DO. Each and every one of us has the means, the ability, the power, the authority, the commanding position, to do it. All it takes is will, resolve, and courage. Ironically, all it takes is exercise of the right we have no matter what “government” thinks.Imagine that – defense of rights, protection of rights, preservation of rights, regaining rights, really only takes simple exercise of rights. Having the guts to turn away from the corrupt democrats and corrupt republicans is the start down that path to regaining Liberty snatched away by them both.

All you have to do is choose to go down that path – and the opportunity to take the first step comes in just a couple months. If you think about it, the first step is already taken – the GOPe is already defeated and Hillary is as weak a candidate as has ever stood for election to the office of the Presidency. Indeed, the two fruit corruption bunch party that dems and pubs have been having for a century is ripe for the pickings. If you want to harvest your Liberty from their grasp, all you have to do is vote to do so – kick them both out entirely. Fair enough, maybe Johnson isn’t the answer – but then we already know that dems and pubs aren’t, so what is there to lose besides a known loss?

More than half of republican voters rejected Trump, right? Roughly half rejected Hillary in favor of Bernie, Right? There is more than enough reason to see that both Hillary and Donald could be handed a historic thumpin, one like this nation has never seen…..one that would make Brexit look like a school board election.

Wanna take your country back? Great, take a good look at who you have to take it back FROM – democrats and republicans. They consider it all theirs and have traded power back and forth for decades, all in part of a deal to be ABLE to just trade it back and forth be tween themselves, blocking all others out along the way and squeezing the people out of every penny we have.

We make America Great Again, we achieve change in order to augment hope, by taking our country, our Liberty, our rights, our treasure back from the democrat/republican machine that took it all away from us, before we were even born, in the first place. If you vote for a democrat or a republican, you are voting to keep things just as they are, you are voting for the same thing. If you do so, fine, just be willing to own it and admit it. Have the courage to admit you like it as it is now and has been your entire life. Democrats and republicans cannot solve what is wrong because they ARE what is wrong.

glasswolf

Now look into his running mate’s (Weld) anti-gun record and you’ll never vote for Johnson.

Gary Johnson is not perfect, but he is better than Hillary, and better than Trump.

gdod25

So again, the lessor of evils? No thanks

Tom01

Given how much of a circus this election has been I had hoped that some outside group like the libertarian party would at least put up a good candidate and make a solid run. Well they came up with this guy…

From what I can gather most people don’t even know he exists, much less that he is running for president. He isn’t even mentioned in media stories that talk about the election and how primaries have gone.

Like so many others who are totally disgusted with the zhit sandwich menu we have for choice of candidates this time, a 3rd party candidate has some interest for me. Johnson’s stance on the 2nd sometimes seems a little wobbly, but as far as integrity, honesty, track record, etc, he’s by far more appealing than Clinton or Trump. However, the last time I voted Libertarian (Harry Browne) it seemed to help Bill Clinton become pres. That I regret, despite the ‘statement’ my vote made about the ‘big 2’ parties.

spencer60

As mentioned in the article, Johnson supports gun control as does his VP pick.

He was caught throwing a replica of Washington’s flintlock (given as a gif) into the trash.

He has no interest in the Second and that makes him almost as bad as Hillary.

in fact he’s worse in some ways, because Johnson will actually be pulling votes away from Trump, and helping her possibly win.

Trump can beat Hillary, and he’s already come out as a strong supporter of 2A.

Anything that works against him is a negative for gun owners, and that’s all that counts this election…

Ken Hoffman

reagan couldn’t win, TRump couldn’t win,Obama couldn’t win.. Johnson is beating Trump with active military 38% to 30 and in recent Utah Poll is in statistical Tie with Trump. Stop trying to choose a winning team and vote for someone who doesn’t see the US as their whipping boy or piggy bank IF all the people that can’t stand CLUMP would just vote a for decent man who takes rights more seriously then him self HE can win

KCTed

“However, both candidates said they are open to legislation which would keep guns out of the hands of potential terrorists and also the mentally ill.”
Actually, Gary said he’s open to discussion on how to keep guns from terrorists and mentally ill. He has never said he’s open to any regs or laws.
He cited the FBI interviewing the Pulse Club shooter several times, then removing him from their “radar” as some folks he would like to have a discussion with..

In the 90’s, when states and federal govt were passing restriction laws (think the Brady Law, with bipartisan support) Johnson signed legislation to make concealed carry legal in NM (a very blue state)

KCTed

Not sure if this will show up, but this is words from his own mouth

KCTed

These are vetoes he made concerning guns, not all of them, but ones that easily showed up in a search
1996 SB10- Forfeiture act- sought to legalize forfeiture of firearms for things like illegally transporting wild game- Vetoed by Governor Johnson after passing in the house.
1997 SB242- Deadly Weapons on State premises – tried to make carrying a weapon on state property a felony- Vetoed by Governor Johnson after passing in the house.
1997 SB1273 – Public Peace, Health, Safety and Welfare – sought to increase penalties for certain crimes if in possession of a firearm, other overreaches- Vetoed by Governor Johnson after passing in the house.
1999 HB225- sentencing standards act- sought to add penalties for firearm possession during non violent crimes, possession in certain buildings/ businesses- Vetoed by Governor Johnson after passing in the house.
2000 HB464- school safety act- in part creating a database of anyone possessing a gun on school property- Vetoed by Governor Johnson after passing in the house.
2001 HB310- Handgun Safety standard act – sought to require biometric locks on weapons- Vetoed by Governor Johnson after passing in the house.
2001 SB131- Children & Firearms Safety Act – requiring locks, unreasonable restrictions and requirements on lending, selling, transfer of firearms. – Vetoed by Governor Johnson after passing in the house.