Jon would never release such material. The only person that might still have that material is Ripper, since he would have to listen to the songs to learn them. Even then, it's highly doubtful and more than likely just a rumor.

i heard they recorded it with barlow before he decided to leave the band

Jon would never release such material. The only person that might still have that material is Ripper, since he would have to listen to the songs to learn them. Even then, it's highly doubtful and more than likely just a rumor.

Well, he might now that Barlow is back. He loves going over old stuff with the new vocalist.

Jon would never release such material. The only person that might still have that material is Ripper, since he would have to listen to the songs to learn them. Even then, it's highly doubtful and more than likely just a rumor.

i heard they recorded it with barlow before he decided to leave the band

They did, but Jon wasn't satisfied with Matt's singing. During the recording of Gettysburg, Jon knew from Matt's performance that he wasn't into it anymore, and that's when Schaffer decided it was time for him to go.

Jon would never release such material. The only person that might still have that material is Ripper, since he would have to listen to the songs to learn them. Even then, it's highly doubtful and more than likely just a rumor.

Well, he might now that Barlow is back. He loves going over old stuff with the new vocalist.

Maybe, if they find a non-shitty record label, but then Schaffer has to worry about aquiring the rights to his songs. If we don't get the Something Wicked Box set, we wont get The Glorious Burden either.

As far as I know, Jon doesn't have plans to re-record TGB, or release the version with Matt, since he was unhappy with his performance.

His only plans were to have Matt re-record Framing Armageddon for continuity with The Crucible of Man. That re-recording was supposed to be in the box set.

FYI - Gettysburg is the best piece of music that Jon has ever written.

As far as I know, Matt left the band, not john asking him to leave. Matt wanted to leave around the time of Horror Show, but John talked him into staying. So I doubt he'd kick him out after convincing him to stay.

And Gettysburg is rather boring over all, with some good stuff thrown in. Just more mid tempo chugging.

And Gettysburg is rather boring over all, with some good stuff thrown in. Just more mid tempo chugging.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the battle of Gettysburgh, or the book, The Killer Angels, which is the narrative that Jon followed in the song (as did the movie Gettysburgh), but the song, written as it is, provides the perfect atmospheric elements for each section, and I feel it works perfectly. If you look at it as a long metal song, I can see you getting bored with it, but if you can somehow climb inside the song and the storyline, it really is quite amazing.

I'm sure it fits the book perfectly, but I'm not usually reading the book while driving in the car listening to the song. By itself the song is good, but not nearly the masterpiece people make it out to be.

Message from Matt (read first)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted by Matthew Barlow on 2003-06-02 09:15:38:In December of last year, prior to Iced Earth signing a new record deal,Jon and I had a sit-down concerning what I felt was best for my future and thefuture of Iced Earth. I told him that my heart was no longer into performingmusic and I intended to stand down from my position in the band in pursuit ofwhat I felt would be a more satisfying career and consequently a morefulfilled life. Jon was very adamant that I should not leave the band, and asked menot to do something that I might live to regret. I was compelled to stay withit, but as it turns out my course had remained altered.

For you to understand my position on this matter, I feel I must explainmyself. As for many people, in and outside of the United States, the events ofSeptember 11, 2001 had a profound impact. For me personally, it shined a newlight on life. It forced me to realize how precious and how short life is. Ifeel very fortunate to have been a part of something that has affected so manythroughout the world, but I believe that what I am striving for will alsoreflect positively on those I come in contact with.

I am presently going to school in order to obtain my Bachelor's Degree inCriminal Justice Administration. When I have received my degree, I intend tofollow with a career in law enforcement administration.

I realize that it may be difficult for some of you to understand the decisionthat has been made, but please believe that it has been made to preserve theintegrity of Iced Earth. I know that there will be people who bad-mouth theband and me for this and that there will never be a good enough explanation.For those people, I feel pity that they must live through others and I hopethat someday they will find themselves in another place. I have been on a greatride with all of you and I have not a single regret. There are great thingsto come from Iced Earth and we will all be there to witness them.

I wish Jon and the guys well and I thank you in advance for your support andunderstanding.

As you can see from Matt's post a very difficult decision has been made.The events of 9-11 have affected us all in very different ways. I think itmade most people step back, take a look at their lives and change theirpriorities. I certainly did and so did most of the people I know. In fact, I would betthat the whole reason I chose the theme of "The Glorious Burden" for the nextCD was probably because my sub-conscious is dealing with what happened thatday. I realize that some of you don't care about what happened, and actuallythat's your problem, but I know that most of you do. We have never been afraidto show our loyalty and love of country way before 9-11, and anyone who haspaid attention knows that. The reason that I'm explaining all of this is so thatyou know how close Iced Earth came to being a memory. After the attacks I wasalso questioning what I had done with my life and if there was some way that Icould help people and do something that really mattered instead of this"illusion" called the music business. When something this real and tragic happensit has a huge effect on guys like Matt and I, who come from families who haveserved, and who have a fierce dedication to our republic.

The music business is a big lie, plain and simple. It's an illusion that'smarketed and sold. It's the big production, photos, videos, promotion and imagebuilding and all the other shit that makes you the fans think and feel acertain way about whatever band or style it is that you're into, and you don't evenknow it, that's the amazing thing. However, what happens behind the scenes inthe real world is often very different from the fantasies that the fanscreate in their own minds about their favorite artists. Fans base these fantasieson the images they are fed.

The point to all of this is that it's pretty hard to stay positive and takeit seriously when you figure out what a huge lie it is. After 9-11 I nearlydissolved the band because I thought that what I do with my band is prettyinsignificant in the big picture, and it is. However, after months and months ofvery heavy thought I realized that it doesn't really matter that the musicbusiness is a big fucking lie because my songs are not, and my songs are the onlyreason that I do this. I've said it before, I don't care about the rock star orguitar hero bullshit, this thing called Iced Earth from the very beginning hasbeen a vehicle for my songs and that's it. If some fans have created another"reality" about I.E. in their own minds, I can't help them with that, that'sthe "illusion" that's getting them. Iced Earth is and always has been my bandand my vehicle to get my songs out, no matter the members that are involved.It's entertaining to see and hear some of things people come up with when theyhave absolutely no facts. Some people get it and some don't and that's okbecause in the end the only person that I need to please is me, and usually if I ampleased then the majority of the fans will be as well. I have no need ordesire for Iced Earth to have fair weather fans. I realize that comments like thismake people think I must be a real prick, and maybe they're right, but I knowwho I am and what I stand for and that scares some people.

I hope that this long and wordy post will help you all make sense of thechanges that are taking place.

Matt called me a few weeks before we started pre-production and said that hewanted to quit the band and pursue a career doing administrative work for theDepartment of Homeland Security. He feels that because he is not a songwriterhe'd have a more secure future and would be happier doing some good in thereal world rather than living the illusion of something as shallow as a "rockstar." I asked him to not do something he would live to regret, we have a newlabel and I've written by far the strongest and most compelling material ever andwe basically have a new beginning. In hindsight I should not have pressuredhim into staying but there was no way I could have predicted what would happen,Matt had already quit in his heart, yet out of loyalty he was willing to giveit a shot. The recording of the vocals did not go smoothly. It was obvious toJim Morris (producer) and me that something was very wrong. However, wepushed forward and Jim felt that we may have to change the way we mixed the vocalsbut that we'd basically be ok. After tracking was done we proceeded with themix. I was becoming more and more disturbed with the way things were soundingand by the time we started the mix on the 32 minute Gettysburg (1863) epic Iknew I had to make a serious decision. It was not a decision that I ever wantedto make; I always expected Matt and I to jam together until we were grumpy oldmen.

Here's the not so glorious burden of being the guy who makes tough decisions:I decided to stop production and shelve the album until I find a new singer.Matt's heart was not in it and it showed in his performance. I'm sure that'shard for some of you to believe but it's simply a fact. There are a lot ofthings you can do with today's technology to make a singer sound better but youcan't add feeling with a computer. And we all know from past recordings that Matthas never had a problem delivering feeling, so it was obvious that it wasover and he just didn't have it in his heart to really feel the album.The Glorious Burden is without a doubt the best album I have ever written. Itis the first time that I've written about such serious and important events.It's also the first time that I've written about something as near and dear tomy heart as the history of our country. It probably sounds corny to some ofyou but I've often used the American Revolution as inspiration to give me thestrength to carry on in this constant uphill battle. My love and passion forthe study of the Civil War is being translated to music for the first time inthe history of the band and that's what makes this album so special. I spentcountless hours creating what is most definitely my masterpiece as a songwriter.This is not just another album about dark fantasy/sci-fi/horror material.After Horror Show, which is a good record but the personal touch is missing on alot of it; I felt this would be the best way to bring that personal passionback into the music in a new and fresh way.

So it really comes down to the fact that I still feel like I've got somethingto say as a song writer, so I'm going to keep going. I would have rathercontinued the way things were but I can't make someone want to do something, noone can. This has been a very hard decision, and a costly one, but I wouldrather not release an album at all than to have it haunt me for the rest of my lifebecause I knew it wasn't the way it should be. Also, I will carry on becauseI can't see flushing nearly 20 years of hard work down the toilet because amember has had a change of heart. I don't think real Iced Earth fans would wantthat either.

I have spent some of the best times of my life with Matt. We have been ableto experience many things in our travels together and I hope he finds what heseeks for his future, I truly wish him the best for his life.

And so another chapter in the struggle for Iced Earth and my love of metalbegins. I have to say I feel great and completely energized and am veryoptimistic for our future. A strange thing considering the uncertainty that liesahead, but if you know me, you know I love a challenge.

The Glorious Burden will come out in all it's glory when I find the right guyto redo the vocals. If it takes 2 months, 6 months, a year; whatever it takesto do it right we will get it out the way it's meant to be. The true anddedicated fans should not be concerned that this is the end; it most definitely isnot, before you know it the album will be out and it will be the best thingyou've heard from Iced Earth.

I hope most of you will understand the situation that I'm in and will beconfident that I will carry on in the same I.E. tradition as I always have;quality, honesty and integrity...

I remember those posts. I've always felt that Jon was publicly more than disengenuous. To say shit like Matt was singing without feeling..true or not. I don't remember Matt responding publicly and I've respected him for that.

bands need to stop listeing to the record companys. the only person with rights to the songs is the bands and they can do whatever they want with it. if they wanna rerecord an album of there own material then they should do it. if a member goes solo and wants to preform a song from his previous band live on their solo tour they can

You know what sucks? Ripper's my second favorite vocalist, but I can't stand his solo and Beyond Fear work, and find his stuff with Judas Priest to be meh. He only really shines in Iced Earth and most of his cover songs he's done including the live Roadrunner United covers. The man should just never write lyrics or vocal melodies. I think Barlow's gonna jump to second again.

I came to this conclusion after hearing two of his new solo songs on his myspace. I was hoping for an awesome solo record, but also dreading it due to my knowledge of his lyrical abilities. poogas.

So Greely denies it PERSONALLY but because somebody has ALLEGEDLY said he made some unspecified comments and the generic to cover all sins "stole money" we must think the worst about him and he suddenly becomes a "full blown racist". Summary justice and execution there perhaps?

Well, shit, I showed both and links sides. Am I allowed to come to my own conclusions, or what?

Erm yes. I didn't realise I'd tried to stop you.

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If you read it, he doesn't comment specifically on the anti-Semitic part.

He said "it's a joke"

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His denial of the money-stealing is also rather equivocal. On top of that is common sense- why would Jon make any of that up?

It's open to interpretation and anyway people can be bitter and exaggerate.

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Jon is generally honest and to-the-point. He's had no problem dismissing Barlow and Ripper Owens without making up extravagant lies about them.

He dismissed Barlow? I thought he left of his own accord. Also Owens was dropped by *email* before Xmas because he committed the sin of having outside interests - just like Schaffer. I can understand JS looking after the band and music but to take his comments and turn them into something else like "full blown racist" is another.

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Also, making up lies about another person and printing them is libel. I don't like Jon anymore than the next guy, and I think he runs Iced Earth in a very self-centered and narrow fashion, but I doubt he ever took tyrannic rule over the band to that level.

The fact is, Andy, that you are a complete n00b to the world of Iced Earth and this info about Greely is nothing new.

Not a complete Noob I've listened to them for several years now. My comment before was a nod to those who've liked them say since the late 1990s or before.

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It's something that all the die-hard Iced Earth fans know and have generally accepted. If you'd like to investigate further and maybe even pull up this Schafer interview which everyone seems to know about, feel free to. Make sure to post what you find.

If I can dig deeper I certaily will. The problem I have with it this: there's going to be a dozen or more people reading this who might be interested in the band but are going to run a mile and never touch Iced Earth again with a barge pole at even a whiff of "racism" in the band past or present. So I think it does the band no favours to throw unsubstantiated remarks about past members around. Judas Priest's fromer drummer Dave Holland is in prison for abusing a boy, that's substantiated by press releases and the conviction etc. But that's justice done it seems. Calling Greely a racist does nobody any favour not least the band. In many of IE's songs theres a very, very important message aisde from amazing riffs, music etc and JS would say the same. These shouldn't be ignored by anybody in my view or at least as few people as possible.

I think it's awesome and much better than The Crucible Of Man. What makes it more awesome is the Barlow wrote all of the vocal melodies. It's a shame we wont hear anymore albums with Matt on them, but he left an incredible makr in Pyramaze history. I was hoping we'd hear some live Bone Carver material with him but oh well.

Yeah the DVD pretty much sucks..... Both of them. The Gettysburg DVD offers a good interview with Schaffer in his fancy study, wearing his fancy robe, puffing his fancy pipe. Ok that last one wasn't true. If I wasn't such a collector, I'd probably trade in both Alive In Athens and Gettysburg.

You're the first person I've heard say the AIA video sucks. Only bought it last year myseff. There's some oddities (e.g. Tarnowski being completely absent on one song and some overdubbing) but apart from that either as good or better than studio versions and a crazy crowd.

You're the first person I've heard say the AIA video sucks. Only bought it last year myseff. There's some oddities (e.g. Tarnowski being completely absent on one song and some overdubbing) but apart from that either as good or better than studio versions and a crazy crowd.

All you're hearing is the audio from the CD, except very few moments when they slipped in footage from the other night that didn't make it to CD. I know there's plenty of speculation on whether this live album is truly live, but when watching Stormrider on the DVD, you can clearly see Jon is not talking to the crowd, and I highly doubt he did something as ridiculous as fake talking to the crowd in the post-production.

Hey Andy, I think Jon already has enough against him and his band for being so against organized religion.

I bet, but he doesn't seem to be anti-religion itself. There was an interview in Metal Hammer with him saying what grinds him is people forcing it on other people.

Well yeah, he has a personal relationship with god, but other than that he wont have any of that religious garble.

I think he kind of points this out in Brainwashed when he says, "Christ, it's nothing personal, you gotta see, they twist and turn your words, for their own need". Of course, he could also be talking about those lovely bunch of people who you want to open the door naked to.

I dunno, Andy. I think you're getting my point confused. I'm just showing you what a lot of people know and already accept as truth. I'm not making the accusation. As I think I did a good job showing, this is something that's kinda "common knowledge." Also, if you're gonna play the whole "talking bad about the band will discourage future fans" card, try not to jab Schaffer so many times. I do admit that I may have dismissed Greely a bit too soon as a vocalist- I've been getting him confused with the first guy for ages now.

Yeah the DVD pretty much sucks..... Both of them. The Gettysburg DVD offers a good interview with Schaffer in his fancy study, wearing his fancy robe, puffing his fancy pipe. Ok that last one wasn't true. If I wasn't such a collector, I'd probably trade in both Alive In Athens and Gettysburg.

Alive in Athens might've been the best $20 I've ever spent. Was in a store, saw this DVD, thought "Hmmm, 28 songs for $19.99? DONE!" Up till then, I had heard 2 or 3 Iced Earth songs, so when I got AiA I was absolutely floored. It's got poor production sure, but everything else is so awesome it makes up for it.

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"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Yeah the DVD pretty much sucks..... Both of them. The Gettysburg DVD offers a good interview with Schaffer in his fancy study, wearing his fancy robe, puffing his fancy pipe. Ok that last one wasn't true. If I wasn't such a collector, I'd probably trade in both Alive In Athens and Gettysburg.

Alive in Athens might've been the best $20 I've ever spent. Was in a store, saw this DVD, thought "Hmmm, 28 songs for $19.99? DONE!" Up till then, I had heard 2 or 3 Iced Earth songs, so when I got AiA I was absolutely floored. It's got poor production sure, but everything else is so awesome it makes up for it.

Why? I thought it was just a bunched of random live footage overdubbed with the original AiA concert.

Yeah the DVD pretty much sucks..... Both of them. The Gettysburg DVD offers a good interview with Schaffer in his fancy study, wearing his fancy robe, puffing his fancy pipe. Ok that last one wasn't true. If I wasn't such a collector, I'd probably trade in both Alive In Athens and Gettysburg.

Alive in Athens might've been the best $20 I've ever spent. Was in a store, saw this DVD, thought "Hmmm, 28 songs for $19.99? DONE!" Up till then, I had heard 2 or 3 Iced Earth songs, so when I got AiA I was absolutely floored. It's got poor production sure, but everything else is so awesome it makes up for it.

It's the actual songs, but there's obviously a fair amount of overdubbing on Tarnowksi (he was like 20 at the time they did it though, wasn't he?). A little over the crowd as well. But it's far from "random" live footage.

Why? I thought it was just a bunched of random live footage overdubbed with the original AiA concert.

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"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Yeah the DVD pretty much sucks..... Both of them. The Gettysburg DVD offers a good interview with Schaffer in his fancy study, wearing his fancy robe, puffing his fancy pipe. Ok that last one wasn't true. If I wasn't such a collector, I'd probably trade in both Alive In Athens and Gettysburg.

Alive in Athens might've been the best $20 I've ever spent. Was in a store, saw this DVD, thought "Hmmm, 28 songs for $19.99? DONE!" Up till then, I had heard 2 or 3 Iced Earth songs, so when I got AiA I was absolutely floored. It's got poor production sure, but everything else is so awesome it makes up for it.

It's the actual songs, but there's obviously a fair amount of overdubbing on Tarnowksi (he was like 20 at the time they did it though, wasn't he?). A little over the crowd as well. But it's far from "random" live footage.

Why? I thought it was just a bunched of random live footage overdubbed with the original AiA concert.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good CD. But I just can't help but feel weird since you almost never get to see Barlow actually pronouncing the words. There always seems to be hair or his arm or something in the way. Or he's just really far away.

If you're claiming that Barlow was largely overdubbed, I'd be curious to see if it was the case... there's no existing bootlegs of those two shows. However, I've heard other bootlegs from SWTWC tour and others, and he really is a monster live. I wouldn't be surprised if the cd had little to no overdubbing of him. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaffer redid all his vocals as well. Especially considering how big a fan of KISS Schaffer is.

As for seeing Barlow pronounce notes, there is a fair amount of interference from his hair. But at least on the next DVD there won't be that problem!

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"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

If you're claiming that Barlow was largely overdubbed, I'd be curious to see if it was the case... there's no existing bootlegs of those two shows. However, I've heard other bootlegs from SWTWC tour and others, and he really is a monster live. I wouldn't be surprised if the cd had little to no overdubbing of him. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaffer redid all his vocals as well. Especially considering how big a fan of KISS Schaffer is.

As for seeing Barlow pronounce notes, there is a fair amount of interference from his hair. But at least on the next DVD there won't be that problem!

I'm not saying he was largely overdubbed... but from what I understand they AiA (album) is made up from a series of shows in Athens, and the DVD is footage from either only one of the shows of a different show altogether.