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- To avoid oversubbing. Unfortunately, far too few people take this into consideration these days, and that's why we get crap groups popping up left and right to oversub SamuraiChrnoChobits.

If there was no more lead translator for the series under the old group, then there is no oversubbing. And don't think I don't take this into consideration--we have swallowed our ready-to-encode script before because another group released the first episode of the series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elepsis

- Because the translator likes the work the group does, and thinks he/she can contribute to their releases.

I'm a little curious about this translator who doesn't watch raws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elepsis

- Because he doesn't want to go through the trouble of founding/running a new group, or learning a variety of new techniques when he can come in to work with an experienced staff who has a 90% probability of being able to do a better job than that one person.

Founding a group takes no effort. You can e-mail mxs and have a torrent page on scarywater in under two hours, and single source torrents off residential broadband connections work perfectly well for distro--the single-seed phase is slow, but under the XDCC bot or fserve model, no fans were getting the file during the 'single seed' phase, AND the file wasn't swarming among the bots.
As for the other jobs thing, it's true that you do have to learn them, but you only have to learn them once, and they're useful to know. There are enough guides to 2-pass XVID out there that you can be hand-held through the first episode or two, and timing is select the line of dialogue and click. Plus, these are jobs that it's useful for the translator to be able to do anyways--that way you don't get speed-bumped if your timer goes on two weeks vacation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elepsis

There are more reasons, but these are three that jump to mind off the top of my head. And if the translator doesn't meet a group's requirements? Well, that's up to each individual group. Genbu's usually desperate enough to take them anyway, and ask an experienced translator to do TL-check, but obviously that will vary from group to group.

If you had the experienced translator, why couldn't they translate the show? Even if translating takes twice as long as T/L checking something which needs a lot of work, you could still get an episode done every other week. This is not the same as being stalled.

Regarding your last comment, notice the "ask" -- the experienced translator isn't an actual member of the group in such cases, but someone I ask to help us out so we actually manage to release something. -_-

If a group has their translator quit on them, who says they'll just drop the project? When Hiei quit fansubbing, we didn't decide "oh well, we're just going to drop Touch now."

Also, who says that just because a translator watches raws he'd not have a group whose releases he may like? If he thinks group a is doing an admirable job of the series, but they've come onto hard times, I think most people would be inclined to help.

IMHO you're applying your own experience, which is by no means the common one, to this matter. But I'll shut up and hopefully let an actual translator respond on the matter of joining groups vs. starting one's own.

If a group has their translator quit on them, who says they'll just drop the project? When Hiei quit fansubbing, we didn't decide "oh well, we're just going to drop Touch now."

I don't think the old group would want to quit--my point was that Random Q. Translator doesn't have any real incentive to come join you when you advertise for him. Now, if you're already friends with some other translator, then he might be willing to step in, but in that case their motivation is going to be different than any of those of a translator you advertised for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elepsis

Also, who says that just because a translator watches raws he'd not have a group whose releases he may like? If he thinks group a is doing an admirable job of the series, but they've come onto hard times, I think most people would be inclined to help.

I just don't think we're seeing eye to eye here. If you're a translator, why are you waiting several days for a fansub group to put crap you don't need on the video when you can get the episode off winny 20 minutes after it airs?

Torgen: I'm not exactly seeing what your point is. No, if a translator has no desire to help you, then there's very little you can do to make him help you. Deal with it, that's how it is. If you lose a t/l, then it's your group's responsibility to find a new one if you want to continue -- and if you don't do so in a reasonable amount of time, and some group (or random t/l) decides you're taking too long (or several other reasons), then they will pick up the series one way or another. That's how fansubbing tends to work nowadays.

Torgen: I'm not exactly seeing what your point is. No, if a translator has no desire to help you, then there's very little you can do to make him help you. Deal with it, that's how it is. If you lose a t/l, then it's your group's responsibility to find a new one if you want to continue -- and if you don't do so in a reasonable amount of time, and some group (or random t/l) decides you're taking too long (or several other reasons), then they will pick up the series one way or another. That's how fansubbing tends to work nowadays.

My point was that there was this hating against so-called 'vulture groups', as though the new translator somehow owed the original group his services. Be there as many reasons to dislike both the original and new groups as there may, I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't think being a vulture was one of them.

I don't think the old group would want to quit--my point was that Random Q. Translator doesn't have any real incentive to come join you when you advertise for him. Now, if you're already friends with some other translator, then he might be willing to step in, but in that case their motivation is going to be different than any of those of a translator you advertised for.

I just don't think we're seeing eye to eye here. If you're a translator, why are you waiting several days for a fansub group to put crap you don't need on the video when you can get the episode off winny 20 minutes after it airs?

That has nothing to do with whether the translator thinks the group is doing a good job or not. Just because the TL might not NEED to watch fansubs in order to understand a series, doesn't mean he/she can't admire the work that a group is doing with thier subs.

The idea that when a group starts doing something, no one else should pick up their pace is a strange one. If you're subbing every 3 months (for example) then you shouldn't be surprised if a group is created partly due to your laziness to speed up the subbing, maybe every 2 weeks?

Of course if you're the only group bothering to sub it and you choose to do it every 3 months then no one is entitled to complain about speed. I just don't see why no group should pick up your pace just because you started subbing first.

I don't think the idea is so strange. IMOP, a translater's skills are being put to more use with a series that wasn't picked up EVER or was dropped completely. That's why I said we should confirm which series no one wants to work on anymore and which are just slow.

I don't care if a translator wants to start a new group. They can if they want to. But it is less work for him/her if the translator joins an existing group. (YES, it does take more effort to form your own group. You'd have to find others to help you, advertise, set up a distro, etc. That's a bit more than watching a raw and sending your translation to the editor/whoever.)

That has nothing to do with whether the translator thinks the group is doing a good job or not. Just because the TL might not NEED to watch fansubs in order to understand a series, doesn't mean he/she can't admire the work that a group is doing with thier subs.

Plus very few fansub translators can understand 100% of what's going on by just watching a raw in real time (little known fact? )

It's been what, 10 days since the last episode was released?! Oh, how you must be suffering after such a long period of waiting since the last episode. Learn some patience, seriously. Fansubbers have lives too, quite often there are things far more important than you getting the latest episode in a person's life.

You are now a Grade 'A' leecher in my books.

/me grumbles about people's impatience.

If this thread had stayed on topic it might have been okay, but as I see it, now it's nothing more than an overblown "When is the next episode coming out?" thread.

- To avoid oversubbing. Unfortunately, far too few people take this into consideration these days, and that's why we get crap groups popping up left and right to oversub SamuraiChrnoChobits.

If only it were that simple... we actually get King of Chrono Chobits Hunters Jing: Samurai Zero (Im missing some, been a long time since this line has been mentioned). This just shows that fansubbing is just too bloated. Fansubbing needs less good groups doing the same projects because there is no point in more than 2 good groups doing any project. ((Hell, there is no point for there being more than 1, but that group could always have internal problems..)
And dont even get started on the definition of good, we all recognize there are groups who do better jobs that others.).

A vulture group is when another group decides to pick up a show that another group is working on that is getting a lot of D/L's or is popular and is going slowly.
These groups are the worst because they only sub so that the leechers will like them. Even worse are the leechers who dont even know anime exists outside of certain larger groups.

This thread is basically a cross between the "shows you want to see subbed" and "someone else do this show so i can pirate it before it gets licensed". People have lives and other stuff to do by fansubbing. Go download the damn raws if you cant wait and watch those if you need your fix.

A vulture group is when another group decides to pick up a show that another group is working on that is getting a lot of D/L's or is popular and is going slowly.

I've been using 'vulture group' to mean a group that feasts on the deceased remains of another group's project. "Let's sub Naruto first frenzy," ie. eating away at a live fansub project, seems more like a parasite than a carrion eater. Perhaps we can call them Ringworm groups?

Torgen, I don't think anyone has a problem with a group picking up a series where another group left off if the original group has flat-out stated, "no, we're not going to do anymore" -- the problem I have is when groups pick up shows from the middle when the original group continues to wish to do everything in its power to keep releasing episodes.