5 man raiding idea.

Since i don't think challenge modes have taken off like blizzard wanted them to, what about implementing 5 man raids. What im talking about is, dungeons on the scale of brd and dire maul but harder then cata heroics at launch. Basically as hard or harder then challenge modes with no timer and rewarding lfr quality loot. 1 new 5 man raid released each tier along side the real raids, and this would replace dungeons added after an xpac launch. they would be max level content only and reward something like 100 valor per week for completion or something.

I don't like the idea of it awarding loot, to be honest. If you could run a 5 man to get LFR quality loot, why ever run LFR.

The idea is interesting. I've seen a few topics discussing this. I don't want another mode of raiding to feel mandatory to raiders. Back in TOGC you had to do 10N, 25N, 10H, 25H ; now it's 10/25 N/H, +LFR. Too much can be a bad thing, sometimes.

Challenge Modes are serving their purpose for me. It's a way to take my "best 5" and do something somewhat difficult. I think Challenge Modes are as close as you're going to get to 5-man raiding, unless they make something like "Challenge Mode: Firelands" Which would be very cool, imo. However, I'd rather them take their time to make a new raid like Thunder King in 5.2 than re-do Firelands. If they were going to do a CM:Firelands or equivalent, I'd rather it be at the launch of a new expansion.

nah, if the rewards are not good enough nobody will do it. much like 'challenge modes'. they arent bad.. just nobody wants to do it because there is no gear progression. id like to have more gear from it. then i wouldnt mind. and the ones that think its mandatory can QQ all day long, it will fall on def ears.

Originally Posted by ablib

I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

First off, I think that challenge modes have gotten off to as good a start as can be expected given that it's the start of an expansion followed very quickly by a significant patch and soon enough another patch with a large raid in it. Once people get caught up with their raiding I imagine people who haven't looked at them will do so. In any case, they weren't for everyone from the beginning so it's difficult to say they haven't caught on. I'm sure Blizzard had a projection for how much they would be used. Whether reality is ahead or behind that projection is anyone's guess who doesn't wear a Blizzard name badge while at work.

As to larger and more difficult 'raid-sized' 5-mans, ZA/ZG were a nod in that direction and for a lot of reasons were disliked. They were disliked well before it was clear they were going to be the only thing to do for a good long while.

I am all up for interesting long dungeons (but not with 1 week lockout). But as some people noted here, in world of dailies and lots of caps it might not really work. Unless these dungeons will become true alternative to dailies, and will provide rep, charms, significant VP and raid consumables. Dailies take quite a time and they take away any wish to play after doing them.

Dailies shouldn't have exclusive non-cosmetic rewards (I am not speaking of taking them away from dailies). As long as dailies will remain as the only reliable source of specifically itemized gear, charms, rep and consumables (tillers), barely anyone will run those dungeons, because time is luxury and grinding dailies and VP cap >>> doing anything else and it takes time. This expansion is heavily based on dailies and multitude caps, there is little place for any 5-men unless developers will change this currently broken paradigm.

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 12:20 PM ----------

Originally Posted by MoanaLisa

As to larger and more difficult 'raid-sized' 5-mans, ZA/ZG were a nod in that direction and for a lot of reasons were disliked. They were disliked well before it was clear they were going to be the only thing to do for a good long while.

ZA/ZG were bad move from all sides, but they were not new instances and they came at a cost of original instances. They weren't hard (maybe only for alts and in full pugs) - just tedious and boring as they were just rehashes (released instead of Vashj'ir and Firelands supplementary 5-men). Thankfully, raiders could run couple older Cata hcs for valor cap if couldn't stand trolls, and troll dungeon gear was much worse than t11 gear anyway.

ZG was completely re-done, while ZA was preserved aside from Zul'jin. I don't know if that's why I liked ZA more than ZG or if there's something else to it.

When ZA popped up in the queue, for the first few clears, brought old memories back to me. When ZG popped up, everything was so new and horrendously boring, I hated it. ZG was in a tough spot though, you couldn't really bring Hakkar back, among other bosses.

As someone said before, CMs would not be difficult without the timer. I believe Mione has already solo'd CM Stormstout. If you wanted to remove the timer, you'd have to artificially inflate the difficulty to compensate. Sadly, the only remaining way to do so would be to further scale up damage, scale down players or both.

That said, nothing has been more gratifying for me (in a LONG time) than finally getting all golds. It made our (very subpar-comp'd) 5man group really tight, and was the most fun I've had in a long time. We're all actually really sad that there is essentially no more content to do We could push for a few more realm bests, or try to beat our existing ones, but it's just not quite the same.

THAT said, our desire to do them was not out of gear or anything. Purely out of the "challenge"...no pun intended. Not everything needs a tangible power reward these days. I also agree that CM's have been embraced as well as can be expected. Blizz basically came out and said "Hey, these aren't for everyone." which I think is a nice nod to the ahrdcore PVE scene. They compared them to "PVE Gladiators", which I think is relatively accurate. I think once more of the masses get all of their reputations, valor gear, etc completed and raids on farm or whatever it is they do with their in-game time now, some will venture into CMs. They are an incredibly fast way to get valor if you can do them, and are actually alt-friendly given the gear scaling parameters.

This expansion has a LOT to offer, in terms of solo and group play. I like the idea of smaller group content, but calling a 5man a raid is just...incorrect. And trying to MAKE a 5 man a raid would just result in some bastardization of content that would otherwise be enjoyable in its original design. I hope they add in new CMs (we need matching weapons/shields!), or maybe even other "vanity content"...but none of them should provide loot, as there are already far too many ways to gear your character. Adding another would make the progression path muddled, and maybe even confusing for new players, while circumventing the idea that Blizz has for this expansion to make the content relevant throughout the entire life of MoP.

My $.02

Originally Posted by Malthanis

We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)

I don't like the idea of it awarding loot, to be honest. If you could run a 5 man to get LFR quality loot, why ever run LFR.

The idea is interesting. I've seen a few topics discussing this. I don't want another mode of raiding to feel mandatory to raiders. Back in TOGC you had to do 10N, 25N, 10H, 25H ; now it's 10/25 N/H, +LFR. Too much can be a bad thing, sometimes.

Challenge Modes are serving their purpose for me. It's a way to take my "best 5" and do something somewhat difficult. I think Challenge Modes are as close as you're going to get to 5-man raiding, unless they make something like "Challenge Mode: Firelands" Which would be very cool, imo. However, I'd rather them take their time to make a new raid like Thunder King in 5.2 than re-do Firelands. If they were going to do a CM:Firelands or equivalent, I'd rather it be at the launch of a new expansion.

They don't need to completely redo firelands or any other instance, but I personally would LOVE them to implement challenge modes for old raid content. What I mean is you can get 10 people and enter ulduar 10man and your gear will be put to the level it should have been while running the instance during WotLK. If they designed the challenge mode gear scaling correctly, all they should need to do is input a new item level to scale your gear down to and you'd be good to go. Then again, this is blizzard we are talking about so they most likely hard coded everything...

The only point of them IS the time constraint. That's what gives them their edge and makes them interesting.... Learning to beat that timer and perhaps get the realm best time. It's good that some things have rewards that aren't just disposable epics.

Challenge modes aren't really aimed at the majority of wow players. Most people wont do them because when they try them and keep wiping on the 1st trash pack they will just give up.

Bad idea IMO.
I think CM was created for people who miss BC days, where you had to clear every 5ppl in order to maximize your gear. Yes, it's hardcore, it's not for casuals or half-casuals, but I find no interest in it.