Posted
by
timothy
on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:44AM
from the ouch dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Flexbeta.net compares NeroLinux to K3b under Fedora Core 3. The review notices how NeroLinux does nothing with the eye candy while K3b's GUI is no comparison to NeroLinux. The article also mentions how cumbersome it is to navigate through NeroLinux, also taking note of how long each application takes to accomplish burning tasks."

NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to.NRG.

Isn't the NRG image format different to ISO, and therefore just renaming the created image just like renaming a jpeg image to GIF?The burning software may assume the format from the data, but that sounds like bad practice, and definately not advisable.

Same here. Unless things have changed since I last tried a few months ago, K3B does not burn NRG files. And since many, uh, "items" are "distributed" as NRG files, NeroLinux wins for burning ITS OWN FILES.

Almost true... a.nrg is either an ISO with a 300kB header, or it's some other stuff with a 300kB header, in which case you can't convert it to an ISO. If you understood the format of the header, you could convert most Nero images to bin/cue or cdrdao TOC format, but as far as I've seen, progress on figuring it out has been limited. On the other hand, your script is quite useful for when you have a Nero image and you know (or hope) that it contains a single Mode 1 Data track. I'd just recommend adding a little bit of extra detection logic so that it can bail informatively when the result isn't an ISO, instead of wasting the time and space to do a useless conversion:)

Nero can make a ISO in addition to a NRG file. I believe the NRG file is optomized to work with thier virtualy cd software that eventualy gets mounted so the software thinks it is reading from an actual cd drive.

.NRG files are NOT.iso files. There is a program, nrg2iso, that will strip the NRG header and leave you with a plain.iso, but only for some (data).NRG image types.

If you create a multisession/CD-EXTRA style.NRG file, you cannot just rename it to.iso, and nrg2iso will NOT work.

Lastly, if it's an audio CD, calling the.NRG an.iso image is plain wrong! It's not ISO-9660 or anything else. It's CD-AUDIO..Iso is for data CDs only, and even then it doesn't have all the info in it the cd writer actually needs. NRG has more info in it than just.iso. It needs to in order to support more image types than just data cds.

Disclaimer:

I write cd burning software professionally. I have the official phillips/sony cd specs right in front of me, and have used the NeroAPI, Primo HPCDE and Goldenhawk extensively.;)

NeroLinux - less options, poor GUI, faster sometimes.K3B - more options, better GUI, either same speed or slower by a few secs.

Winner - K3B

Conclusion:Author has no idea why Nero wants users to buy the Windows version so they can use NeroLinux - bad decision because K3B is much better and learning NeroLinux is not worth the time and the money.

I've always heard that Nautilus can do anything that k3b can, but I've never gotten it to do things like, say, burn an audio CD. Can you comment? I was under the impression that all one had to do was drop music files on a CD Creator "folder". Never gotten it to work, though. I suppose I could be doing something wrong, but if I am, isn't the point of automagic Nautilus burning that I don't have to think?

The short answer is that even if nautilus-cd-burner can do the same things many things are just simpler/better in K3b.

The first example that comes to mind is burning a video CD/DVD. I'd imagine laying out all the necessary files and folder structure and then telling nautilus-cd-burner to burn that folder would work. But why bother with all that when you can just give K3b will take all the video files (and recode them for you) and images for chapter thumbnails, menu background, and do all the work for you.

I agree with your conclusion - K3B > NeroLinux. However, one wouldn't criticize their newly-born child for not being able to run like his years-older brother. See this for what is is - more Linux support from predominantly MS Windows-based vendors.

Analogies should be used to illustrate and explain a point, not to extrapolate from it or to come to conclusions or to give advice.

It is natural that the GNU/Linux community has higher expectations, and is more critical. Higher expectations is usually what makes people part of this community in the first place. If you want to appeal to this community, you have to play a better ball game. IMHO, the criticism is just and well placed. Most of us will not be content with what Windows users are content with, a

A lot of software vendors have missed the boat. If they had ported to Linux when there was no free substitute they might have prevented or slowed the development of the free substitute. Now they are competing against a product that is so mature that it is better than their software.

Worse yet, the Linux substirutes will eventually be ported to Windows and undercut their core business. All because they didn't want to "waste" money on a small segment of computer users, who, unfortunately for the propprietory software vendors, happen to be developers.

Painful business lesson. They don't seem to understand that its not about market share in the Linux segment its about market share, period.

Nero is asking the user to give up their software freedom in addition to providing a more clumsy UI and charging money for all of this. It's perfectly fair to compare Nero to K3B, just as countless people compare OpenOffice.org to Microsoft Windows or the GIMP to Adobe Photoshop (and never hesitate to point out how the proprietary alternatives are "better" by some standard that usually doesn't include software freedom).

Nero is not providing "Linux[sic] support", they are using the free software community

The reason they want users to buy windows version to use nerolinux is simple. They don't want to go through the effort of making a new scheme to prevent piracy. Instead of having separate buy linux version and buy windows version things with different keys and such. They will just sell keys. You can even think of it as you're not buying the windows version. You're buying a key from ahead that lets you use either version. Also, this way people who already have a windows key can get the linux version for free.

You crazy people think too much into this.

As for k3b and nero yeah, I can see the guys point. But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools on linux, works no matter what. And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor. Also, for some things the linux software just doesn't do it. Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

Well it is a BETA... I'm sure beta versions of native linux tools were just as bad back when they were this new.. It's not fair to compare a beta product to something which has been around a few years..

I'm sure beta versions of native linux tools were just as bad back when they were this new..

Ahh, no. I was using Linux back then, and even the beta software was reliable for most daily tasks. I'm not a programmer so I can't tell why that is at the code level. But as a daily user of both Windows and Linux I can tell that there's a distinct difference between a general Linux programmer and a general Windows programmer. I see the general Linux programmer takes far more pride in their work. Especially so wh

How about yesterday? I wanted to make a copy of a CD for a friend... put the disks in the appropriate drives, fired up K3B under FC3, and hit copy. Pretty straightforward, right? Well, the burner turned on for about 3 seconds and then barfed, leaving me with a coaster. Tried again, same results. Since I was under time pressure I fired up windows and copied it using Nero. No problems at all.

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

So if K3b works on all my systems (and it does), then Nero really doesn't have an advantage at all, does it? I don't really give a crap if Joe-Bob on the Debian list can't get K3b to work; for me, it works, period.

It has not yet been established that the Linux version of Nero works any better on the oddball systems that choke k3b than k3b itself does.

Ignoring the fact that debian test doesn't get along well with k3b has SQUAT to do with whether or not Linux will make it on the desktop since the target desktop user isn't going to go anywhere near debian.

But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools on linux, works no matter what.

Is that a fact? Have any evidence? Because what you say makes no sense. Unless Nero bypasses the operating system somehow, it has to use the same Linux APIs that k3b et al have to use, and the problems people have with burners are related to the OS-level configuration -- device nodes, permissiones, etc. (well, I suppose some may have problems because they installed k3b but omitted cdrecord, but that's the distro's fault; decent distros do automatic dependency management).

And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor.

Like what? I may be out of touch here, but the last significant innovation I know of in burner APIs is Burnproof, and k3b etc. support that just fine.

Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

And with NeroLinux there is still no easy tool, because NeroLinux doesn't do DVD mastering. k3b burns DVDs just as well as NeroLinux does (k3b also doesn't do mastering).

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

Well, if you RTFA, you'll see that the author had trouble getting Nero to work on his hardware, whereas k3b worked, period.

Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

And with NeroLinux there is still no easy tool, because NeroLinux doesn't do DVD mastering. k3b burns DVDs just as well as NeroLinux does (k3b also doesn't do mastering).

Excellent points, but I take issue with the statement "there is still no easy tool."

I use qdvdauthor, which is quite intuitive, for mastering video DVDs. I put together a DVD of my grandmother's memorial service for the family, complete with fancy menus and all the usual bells and whistles. It was quite easy, and k3b burned the resulting.iso painlessly.

Is it an all in one monolithic solution? Thankfully, no, and as far as I'm concerned, I hope people who do want to bring the windoze notion of one program doing a mediocre job at everything stay the hell away from *BSD and Linux. I like simple programs that do a focused task well. It means the programs are better, more reliable, and more easy for the developers to maintain, which means I get better software. For burning DVDs under Linux from your camcorder, for example, it's as easy as 1, 2, 3...

1) use kino to import video data from the camera into dv2 format

2) use qdvdauthor to master the dvd

3) use k3b to burn the DVD

each program does what it does very well, none are monolothic, and if something better comes along for any of the steps above I can substitute the new, better tool, without losing the features I'm used to or prefer in the other two steps.

Nero is dead. These people should have done a little market research before trying to sell a product that, when it matures, won't do any more than the libre software already available does just fine, k3b being just one example.

Unless Nero bypasses the operating system somehow, it has to use the same Linux APIs that k3b et al have to use, and the problems people have with burners are related to the OS-level configuration

Let me say first that I'm a big k3b fan, but often the burning in k3b does not "just work". The main reason I've found is that k3b relies on cdrecord for much of its work, and until lately, cdrecord often seemed to have weird issues with the 2.6 kernel. This meant that unless you matched the cdrecord version wi

The reason they want users to buy windows version to use nerolinux is simple. They don't want to go through the effort of making a new scheme to prevent piracy. Instead of having separate buy linux version and buy windows version things with different keys and such. They will just sell keys. You can even think of it as you're not buying the windows version. You're buying a key from ahead that lets you use either version. Also, this way people who already have a windows key can get the linux version for fre

So I think the MS zealot modders are out, for this to be deemed insightful.

So you explains why they want us Linux users to buy a Windows version. OK, well, a lot of vocal people whine about installation woes on Linux, you just added one harder way to install software on Linux. Given the difficulty of installing NeroLinux on Linux, even I would not install it (I say even I because my custom Linux is based on LFS, you know what that means ? I can endure a lot).And then you say "you crazy people think too muc

People are stupid and they'll use Nero because it's commercial and you have to pay for it. Really. I've so many times people on slashdot and other places saying they'll buy something just because it's commercial, without giving any concrete reasons. And also for support.

Nero has never worked 'flawlessly' for me on windows, till I formatted the hard drive a few weeks ago it had gotten into a whole thing where it would only burn up to 5% then die (couldn't even kill it with Task Manager).

K3B requires KDE,or the libraries, at least. I don't have them installed, nor do I have any intention of doing so.(When it came time to install bloated frameworks, gnome won.)
If Nero doesn't, it wins (but still loses to the command line)

Your loss. I reckon K3B's the best CD-burning application I've used on any platform, bar none. If you want to miss out on that because you're not keen on loading up some KDE libraries now and again, please yourself.

You can get packet writing to CD-RWs on Linux with open-surce software - if you install the right kernel patch, pktcdvd, then create a pktcdvd block device, you can mount it read-write as a UDF filesystem and access it "just like a floppy". Sadly, it doesn't support CD-Rs

It's a bit tricky to find the patch and the utility to create the device node - there's a SourceForge page, but that's years out of date. Take a look at the mailing list [suse.com].

This week Ahead Nero introduced a Linux version of their popular CD burning application dubbed NeroLinux. NeroLinux promises to bring the great features found in the Windows version to the Linux domain. Though the Windows version of Nero is loved by many, how well does NeroLinux stack up against already existing CD Burning applications such as K3b? K3b's user interface is neat and full of eye candy, while Nero leans towards a more standard look; leaving aside looks for functionality. Though NeroLinux is "free" of cost, users still need to purchase version of Nero 6 for Windows to download NeroLinux. NeroLinux is provided as RPM or Debian package where as K3b is completely free and provides multiple Linux installation packages.

Look and Feel
No doubt about it, K3b offers a more pleasing look by using more eye candy than NeroLinux. Navigating into the preferences of each application, we can see how K3b's user interface is much cleaner and easier to navigate. The options in K3b are aligned as icons on the left hand side of the window, making each task recognizable. NeroLinux preferences window shows each section as tabs on the upper side. Though NeroLinux's GUI is simple, the preferences are still easy to navigate.

K3b Preferences and NeroLinux Preferences

K3b's main window presents the user with multiple CD burning scenarios to choose from including Audio CD Project, Data CD Project, DVD Data Project and CD Copying; getting straight to the point by presenting to the user its abilities. NeroLinux however, does not present the user with any type of wizard or options as far as what the user wishes to do. The user is simply presented with the main window to drag and drop files. The Windows version of Nero presents the user with a window of options as to what the user wishes to do: burn a data CD, music CD and so on. Why NeroLinux was not giving this same capability as the Windows version may have been because this is just the first release of NeroLinux. The fact that K3b presents the user with the options noted earlier makes it much easier to navigate than NeroLinux.

K3b Main Window, NeroLinux Main Window and Nero 6 Main Window

Features

Features
Both K3b and NeroLinux are able to handle both CD-R media and DVD media. K3b goes beyond your regular CD Burning suite by bundling a video encoding feature. K3b lets you rip a DVD movie and convert it into an AVI file for burning on regular CD-R media. NeroLinux does not include any type of video encoding feature. Under the burning properties section of K3b, the typical options are found such as the ability to simulate a recording session, write on the fly, create an image of the compilation only, and the ability to verify the written data; which most of the times is recommended. K3b also allows for multisessions, which means you can keep adding files to the same CD at a later time. NeroLinux's burning option also features the ability to simulate a recording session as well as verifying the written data on the disc. Other options such as creating a bootable disc and the option to finalize a disc are available on NeroLinux.

K3b and NeroLinux Burning Options

Both NeroLinux and K3b allow for burning an image of a CD, however, K3b's user interface is much neater and presents the user with more useful options than NeroLinux. K3b options allow for burning multiple copies of the image, setting the speed at which to burn the image and the ability to verify the written data. Though NeroLinux allows for these settings also, they are not presented to the user within the same window such as K3b.

If Ahead had released NeroLinux 2 or 3 years ago, there would have been a maket for it.
At that time there were no easy to use GUI CD/DVD burner apps for linux.
Today K3b has the user base that would care for a "nero for linux".

A day late, a dollar short. K3b rocks. They should've focused their efforts on new functionality.

On the other hand, we don't want to discouarge developers from porting their apps to Linux. If anything, we should be encouarging them all the more. Having "too many" apps on Linux would be a Good Thing.

I could install kde and in fact had it installed until I discovered K3b was the only KDE program I was using and KDE used more memory and diskspace (and update time) than I wanted to commit to a single program's dependencies.

Wow, there's almost a good suggestion in that biased review. He wonders why K3b hasn't been ported to Windows. Presumably it is because writing to a CD/DVD on Windows is completely different to Linux. Or simply because the developers of K3b don't care about Windows.

I doubt the reason is because of CD burning in windows. K3b is merely a frontend for the command line tools cdrecord and cdrdao, and both have been ported to Windows.

It's probably not on windows for the same reason that hardly any other KDE/QT apps are on windows. And that reason escapes me, I always assumed it's was a Trolltech QT licensing issue (which shouldn't be a problem anymore). Why is it that Gaim is available in windows but K3b is not? Why is openoffice available, but not koffice? I think this hurts the KDE apps quite a bit. GTK is getting much more coverage in windows.

Qt is commercial or GPL, GTK is LGPL. In additon, there have been other releases, like Qt Non-commercial 3.2 which complicates it a bit further. In addition, the GPL version has been Linux/Mac only. The upcoming Qt 4.0 will be GPL (or commercial) under Windows.

Basicly, I think the K* apps are more interested in integrating themselves with KDE, whilr gaim/openoffice is much more targetted at being cross-platform. Now, which is better is a matter of discussion. Macs have lived (or is that "dying"?) with the

Some KDE developers said (IIRC) that porting applications to Windows actually hurts open source operating systems. So, they (at least, the few that mentioned it) don't want to port their applications to non-free systems.

If they care about Linux, then they will work to get a standard set of cross-platform apps. In this respect, users can move to these apps under Windows and then simply switch the OS when they are comfortable with them.

I would surmise the purpose of NeroLinux is to give an alternative to platform switchers so they can use somthing similar to their Windows product. It would a be a prudent move for Nero to keep their base for the cost of doing the parallel development. A better comparison would be between the Windows version and the Linux version from a user's standpoint.

Thank you for not bashing Nero for it not being up to k3b's standards. And frankly, I put nero on everyone's windows computer I set up, so if I start switching people to linux, I may use the nero software. One less thing for them to relearn.

1st - this isn't about the article submitted to Slashdot. This is more a response to individual comments that I've seen posted here so far and across the internet:
As I've used open source products, I keep seeing the same old arguments. One of those arguments is that we need commercial developers for Linux.
Lo and behold when a commercial developer ante's up and makes product for Linux - they are beat up for their decision.
Suddenly we hear about the commercial software:
1. That's fine but it isn't open sourced.
2. Bahhh we have an opensource equivalent already.
3. It doesn't work on my weird (read low marketshare) version of Linux.
I'm sure there are other reasons, but it is early.
Why can't we be positive? Why can't we embrace Ahead for their efforts and simply say - Good Job on your (read) 1st version? I'm sure if they didn't get bad press and beat up over their decision, there might be 'future' versions.
Also, for all you 'we need to convert the windows world' - having NERO available is like a warm familiar blanket to many windows users.
Don't worry ppl - other developers read slashdot - and they are probably thinking - why even bother to develop for the platform when they are likely to get negative press for their effort.
Remember, it's not about comparison to existing free as beer linux apps - this is a commercial prodcut that will live or die on it's own merits.

I think you have a valid point here that Slashdotters are beating up on Ahead. However, it's useful that some of the comments, as well as the review, are critiques. These will help Ahead make NeroLinux better. Secondly, this is a really bad comparision because K3B is so good. Thirdly, free software and commerical software should be compared: why is NeroLinux inferior at this point to K3b? Why does Photoshop continue to blow the GIMP out of the water for most non-trivial graphics design work? These co

We shouldn't "embrace Ahead for their efforts" because their product is sub-par, and not Free. What compelling reason is there for any Linux user to fork their money over to Ahead for a sub-par product when K3b is so much better, and costs nothing?

When Linux users complain about commercial developers not supporting Linux, they aren't complaining about a lack of applications like Nero, where there's already Free and superior equivalents available. They want Linux versions of applications which have no Fre

I can't complain about NeroLINUX - it worked for me just fine. Because of my job, I have a couple copies of Nero for Windows, so it was easy for me to download the.deb and pop a key in.

I'm running Ubuntu - as a Gnome only user, I'd rather install Nero than K3B and not have to worry about all the KDE libraries, especially as they're unsupported in Ubuntu. Yes, I know running Ubuntu is my personal choice, as is running only Gnome.

But you know what? Nero worked, and it worked just fine. I'm either burning audio CDs or ISOs of linux distributions, and it does the job. Most Gnome CD burning apps are still in development (don't get me going on XCDRoast) and Coaster [coaster-burn.org] is still in active development. I may be lucky that I had a couple Nero keys laying around, but I'm not going to be disappointed by any commerical company releasing an application for linux if it helps linux as a whole - and I think Nero helps. Sure, it's GTK1 and it's kind of ugly (GTK 2 please!) and it's not HIG compliant, but it IS their first relase version for Linux, and they were kind enough to release RPMs AND debs - usually you only see RPMs from a commerical vendor it seems.

Currently, as a Gnome person, I'm using X-CDRoast for CDs and doing DVD+R command line with growisofs. That could be improved.

Or you could swallow your pride and install K3b and the necessary KDE libs... you do not have to have the KDE desktop installed to use K3b... I know, I have Ubuntu installed and use K3b for burning CDs.

If so, this could be an advantage over K3B. There's no free software that detects PI/PO errors.

PI/PO refer to when erasure codes need to recover from scratches etc. and also when the erasure codes are not enough.

Simply reading/MD5ing a DVD is not enough. PI/PO readings will tell you how long you can expect that disk to last. Periodic checking of the disks will tell you when you should reburn/move to different media.

I read the article, and really got the impression that the author was a frequent K3B user, and didn't give Nero a chance. On windows, I always liked the Nero interface, simple, clean, not too much bullshit (or what the author calls "eyecandy"). It seems the linux version is more limited, but it's a good start, it supports things K3B (cdrecord etc) don't support, like CDwriting without scsi-emulation support, it should support USB writers without too much hassle (don't know what the status is on that-one with CDRecord etc). That has not been covered at all, and basicly the main bad thing about NeroLinux according to the author is that he likes the K3B interface more...

Also nero's licencing may be strange, but don't forget that a lot of CDwriters bundle Nero 6 with em. Most people using Nero in windows got it together with their writer. I myself have 3 or 4 official Nero cd's. It's nice that they also want to deliver a linux version in such scenario. Also another big point there is, you have to register, so they can very well track how many users are actually interested, it's their first time that they make a linux version, if they have enough interest, they probably will continue the development and start supporting it officially.

I do like K3B simply because it works, and the whole family can work with it, it's the perfect example for the dummy-user application in Linux, and it simply works, but I remember the times where I still prefered to use cdrecord on commanline than starting K3B, and it had to come a long way... Right now - K3B is high quality software, but there were times where the picture was different.

This is Ahead's first attempt to release linux software, and no instability was encountered. They should be encouraged, it took balls to do this - but reviews like this won't encourage or convince other software firms to write software for linux. Yes there is a lot of "free" software, but a lot of companies can't go without support or reliable and supported windows interoperability - preferably the same software running on Windows & Linux, so they don't have to train their personell to use new and different software.

Also a lot of software is almost not available for linux, like project management software, decent cross-platform agenda sharing. PLEASE don't mention Sunbird, it sucks - we tried it - and lost all agenda's doing so, suddenly all files on webdav were truncated to 0-byte size, after which sunbird freaked out and could not recover. Also it's way to complicated to setup, you need to do extensive configuration in apache, webdav and the client side (which is the worst thing). Sure - one day it will be better, but as long as you don't have these things, no company will completely switch over to linux. Yes there are other packages doing this kind of stuff in linux, but the support in windows is or unexisting or extremely limited. This is a giant step forward for Ahead, way to go I say!

I haven't used scsi emulation support to burn CDs (or DVDs) in donkey's years. In fact, I don't even compile scsi emulatin into the kernel or as a modules, because I don't what it ever changing my cd-rom devices to scsi devices. CDRecord on Linux has been able to talk to ATA CD burners natively for quite some time.

You are the biased one.K3B supports CD writing without scsi-emulation support (I should know, that is what I use since months), and support your USB writers just fine : the kernel is doing all the stuff, stop spreading such BS. K3B is easier to beginners, and even to me (that is facts I witnessed, none of my Linux users burning happily with K3B could handle Nero without a detailed to-do list on paper).

You have to register the NeroLinux with a WINDOWS version key, there is no way for them to know for which

The one thing that annoys about Nero is this: why the HELL do they require a 500MHz PIII as the lowest-end system for using Nero 6.x??? This is so lame. I have a ThinkPad 600e retrofitted with a Panasonic slot-loading combo drive, and K3B works a treat on it. Perhaps Nero is getting a bit of middle-age bloat?

Since my Windows partition on the 600e is formatted as FAT32, I can burn anything from Linux, so having a working version of Nero doesn't hurt. Still...wtf are they doing in Nero 6.x that makes it so r

NeroLinux is no good to me, I'm afraid. Not only is my new PC 64-bit, but I have made a conscious decision to run only OSI-certified software on it. Think of it as a kind of software analogue of vegetarianism, without the mortality-denial.

So I'm sticking with K3B. It's quite simply the most user-friendly piece of software ever written for any platform. If there's any guessing to be done, K3B does it rather than leaving you to do it. And at the end of the burn, it even shows you what commands you could have typed in an XTerm to accomplish the same effect {because of course that's what it's been doing anyway}. I think this is a great way to re-introduce the command line. GCombust, which I used to use on my old Mandrake 8.2 box, did pretty much the same thing, but used GTK1.2.

As for why there is no Win3B..... that's anybody's guess. Though an ejectable LiveCD with Linux and K3B probably would suffice {if someone's got a DVD-writer, the chances are good that they will have enough RAM for this to work. Can Linux mount a Windows swap partition?} One day, I've promised myself, I'll get into making bootdisks..... I've already done a Gentoo Stage One install, there's not much else that can be any harder! Maybe a K3B liveCD would be a good first project.

K3B: I think I finally have all of the options set right to burn a CD, but now it crashes when I try to open the burn dialog.

NeroLinux: I tried Nero for Windows, and it didn't like my CD burner, so I can't imagine it will be any better for Linux, if not far worse. It also costs more money than I feel like paying

mkisofs+cdrecord: Ah, the perfect combination of tools to make a data CD. I have never had the urge to burn data CDs with anything else (I only tried k3b for audio cds).

vcdimager+cdrdao: After getting the video in the correct format, these two tools make quick work of burning a VCD. And even the encoding is easy once you figure out what tool to use.

cdrecord for music: It works. It's a pain in the ass if you want to get everything in the right order, or if you want custom pregaps, but it works.

cdrdao for music: I have a suspicion that cdrdao is a very powerful tool, but the syntax boggles me. Someday I'm planning to figure it out enough that I can write a program to generate the CUE file for me. On second thought, there's probably already a program that does that.

So, in conclusion, if you like GUI, NeroLinux might be an option, but it probably suffers like K3B when it comes to support. For power-users, it will probably not stand up to the power of the command line.

Huh ? K3B crashes when you open the burn dialog ?Then you have a bigger problem with your KDE installation. The burning process is not what is making K3B crash. Too bad your only problem is that.Because K3B uses cdrecord, mkisofs, vcdimager and cdrdao, you will have at least the same power than with command line.

I'm very powerful with the command line, but K3B (and most Linux frontend) is way faster than you typing some command line for data CD (I save package CD regularly, I can tell it is faster).

Am I the only one that is not only not excited but is slightly repulsed by NeroLINUX?

I don't get it. Is the objective of GNU/Linux to simply invent another Windows? A platform where essential utilities (and IMHO, a CD/DVD burner program is essential) are commercial?

Looking at NeroLINUX, there are several points to ponder:

# NeroLINUX is not free as in "free beer". You have to have a registered version of Nero to use the program.# NeroLINUX is not free as in "liberty". The software is closed source code and claims to use some sort of a "NeroAPI". (The term "proprietary APIs" simply should not be in a GNU/Linux user's vocabulary.)# Nero notes on its web site, "Important note: Nero does not provide Technical Support for NeroLINUX."

Sorry, I don't see anything to get excited about. To me, it's just another half-step by a commercial company to brag "yeah, we run on Linux" while not really supporting the platform and another way for Nero to generate registrations from its Windows OEM versions.

Again, is the goal of Linux the porting of the same closed-source, marketing-driven, software gimmickry which is "business as usual" in the Windows world? Or is there another, higher goal which is aimed at providing both developers and end-users a different experience?

Unless we all want to be hostage to the same software gimmicks that permeate the Windows world, I'd strongly suggest joining the mailing lists of your favorite GNU/Linux-based burning program and participating in the community that is working to develop those programs.

I agree 100%. There seems to be this "movement" that believes just because most PCs in the world run Windows, then copying the Windows GUI environment and applications into other operating systems is the only way forward.

Incidentally, I use Nero in Windows occasionally, most of the time it does its job but it also can suffer from very bad slowdown problems, does not like dealing with file deletions on network shares and consistently feels "sluggish". All in all, it's the best of a mediocre

After using NeroLinux I have to get on my Knees and thank Sebastian Trueg for K3B. I don't get it, Nerolinux is so bland, it doesn't see my burner, so it doesn't work, it is about as enjoyable to look atas a letter written in marker on a piece of cardboard.

and other posters making the statement that people will use NeroLinux over K3B because it is easier is a patent JOKE! and proves that they have never used K3B. it works without the need to configure it. well, in Mandrake I don't have to do anything at a

I recently did some upgrades to my PC and set it up to dual boot between XP and Mandrake. I have a Liteon 812 DVD burner now and I kept having problems when burning audio CDs in XP.

I tried both Sonic (came with my drive) and Nero, both at various write speeds. I kept having problems where the CDs would work fine in my PC but were very flakey on any CD player. It's worth noting that I didn't have any problems using the same media with my older Creative CDRW.

First off, I'm not a K3b person or a Nero person. I'm actually a console mp3burn user.I've used K3b in the past and I must say that it's a very formidible opponent to go up against. I don't have a Nero CD key so I have to go with what everyone else is saying about NeroLinux.

I think it's great that we're finally getting some commercial Linux software, corporate people don't care whether K3b is "better," they just want brand recognition. So now we have some brand reccognition. If Nero gets positive feedback from this, other companies will be likely to follow. If we can prove to Nero that Linux is a viable platform to develop for, they'll keep at it. RMS probably doesn't like this, but it needs to happen.

If we can give the people what they think they want (brand recognition), we can influence them. E.g. if J.Random Windows User goes to buy EasyToInstallAndUseLinux 1.0 and NeroLinux and perhaps even WordPerfectLinux (sometime in the future), he'd be set. Now, say that ETIAULinux comes with KDE and K3b and J.RWU discovers it one day, likes it, and uses it as his default burning program.

That's what we'll have to do: lure them with commercial software and win them over with opensource.

I can't see myself using NeroLINUX, simply because K3B is already an extremely polished and easy-to-use application. CD burning is one of those things where I just can't be bothered to do anything advanced -- I just want to set my device permissions and have the nice GUI tell my backends what to do.

By the way, I'm a die-hard GNOME user. But K3B is the one single KDE app I use. That should give a pretty good idea of how highly I personally regard it, and I know others do as well.

Not much use. The article is divided over many pages with a very short introduction page as the first page and mirrordot has mirrored only the first page. The poster could have linked to the printable version, but then the site would have been slashdotted sooner (or not due to the lack of graphics on the printable versions).