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It used to be more part of the community. When the 02 centre was there local kids used the facilities. They often had contact with Arsenal youth coaches.

I know a coach ove there he wants the facilities back, its dispersed eveywhere now, church halls old clubs etc. Its often more expensive fo kids.

Kids loved doing training ight next to the stadium. What contact do they have with the club now? If you cant get a ticket you are an outsider.

They promised they would replace the sports centre - now they wont.

I have been to the Vue, its ok, but its the same as the Vue anywhere anytown. But the big point is it was empty about 20 people for the first day of the Simpsons. It will just force other cinemas to close - Holloway Rd will become a ghost town

About cinemas and the attraction of a nice, comfortable, warm cinema 'experience' that Vue offers. Nothing against that, but what about the tradition of the Odeon cinemas, which is the type I was brought up on (along with the Classic Cinema in Hendon Central - now a gym/health club).

It's a lot like saying that the driver only operated buses are better than the old routemaster buses.

There's merits for both, but both should be available.

Does that part of North London need another cinema?

And wouldn't it be better for a football club to offer a facility where people can run around playing sport for enjoyment as opposed to sitting down eating chocolate and popcorn and drinking Coca Cola while watching a film for their entertainment?

By the way Padre, the picture could be used for a 'Spot the Arsenal Times Guv'nor' Competition, don't you think?

Arsenal already have a sports centre with a 5 minute walk of the stadium, its called the Sobell Leisure Centre and its huge! The directors have agreed to develop this site without the expectation of making a profit. Is this a case of asking for too much by insisting they build something that is not economically viable?

Is it really necessary for local kids to rub shoulders with Arsenal youth coaches in a purpose built building, rather than one that can be say, hired out? Although a non self-sufficient new sports centre would be a bonus for a few, it won't be accessible to everyone.

The Holloway odeon like many other odeons screens films for 4/5 individuals at a time, that is because times have changed and watching the latest films today is actually free. With internet bandwidths increasing exponentially year on year, there is only one way for the cinema (as we know it) to go, and that is down the drain.

The multiplex cinema adds something new to the area, and that is immediate access to a great stadium, the armoury as well other amenities. What the club are trying to do is open up the Arsenal experience to everyone, and that includes people that aren't privileged enough to be located within a mile of the stadium. If someone wants to take his wife and kids on a day out to the Emirates, visit the stadium, stock up on shirts, why shouldn't he have the opportunity to buy some popcorn and watch a movie too? What about 3 young lads traveling in from Essex who never will get to use a sports centre, shouldn't they be catered for?

If you want to park your bum in a comfy seat and watch a film in peace, you go to the Holloway odeon. That is their market. The multiplex located adjacent to the stadium is not a threat to their customers but seeks to tap into a different market altogether. It smells too much of a 'tyranny of the minority' imo.

SimonAbout cinemas and the attraction of a nice, comfortable, warm cinema 'experience' that Vue offers. Nothing against that, but what about the tradition of the Odeon cinemas, which is the type I was brought up on

Ok, but what tradition of Odeon are you talking about?

Vue and Odeon are same except that Vue has much better than screens and facilities than Odeon.

I used to go the Holloway Odeon all the time and used hate the Vue cinema in Angel (it used be called Warner Village cinema) but then I watch a couple of movies there and was won over because of its better facilities.

Quote:

LiquiddWith internet bandwidths increasing exponentially year on year, there is only one way for the cinema (as we know it) to go, and that is down the drain.

Yes, you can watch new flims for on the net and with very quality too. However I still go to the cinema for films that deserve to be watched on the big screen.

Cinemas aren't going down the drain anythime soon, as the big blockbuster films still attract huge audiences and are constantly breaking the box office records.

Back to the topic. We need to build a new sports centre not a cinema, even with the Sobell centre (we had all of our PE classes thier for the whole of year 9, lol) being so close to the stadium.

Dont forget there is also Screen on the Green that would be 4 cinemas on a two mile stretch of the A1. The area cant sustain that many.

The Sobell is multi purpose and not just dedicated to indoor football, and does not have the space that was used at the o2.

At a time when the press is highlighting gun and knife crime shouldnt Arsenal be doing more to get kids off the streets?

The Sobell is too expensive for most kids, and many are not attracted by it. it was the connection with Arsenal that motivated the kids to turn up. There are not enough indoor football pitches, if the Sobell was good enough why wasnt it used before? Because it is a facility, quite reasonably, for adults and older students. It is also an ageing facility and it needs major refurbishment. One suggestion was even that it should be demolished!

Shouldnt we take the view of Arsenal coaches seriously, they say kids are suffering, that the facilities are not there.

If we ignore coaches we contine to back a system where local talent is ignored, and for once I would blame Arsenal.

Quite right, Simon, about popcorn, chocolate & coca-cola.
I keep hearing about plans to tackle childhood obesity, so why aren't these plans being put into action in such a major redevelopment?

There's a much greater need for an indoor football facility than for a cinema at the Emirates site. There's only one place in the world where you could site an Arsenal sports centre, yet a cinema could go anywhere. Well, maybe not in Islington, we seem to have enough already.

Simon68
By the way Padre, the picture could be used for a 'Spot the Arsenal Times Guv'nor' Competition, don't you think?

Donīt tell me Padre is that bloke right at the front with shorts, socks and sandals!

.

"It is born out of hypocrisy and fundamental insecurity. There have been two kids on the block for the past 12 years. Suddenly, there is a third and that one is threatening to be more successful than the others and they donít like it." P Kenyon.

Perhaps it'snot the Club making these proposals. More likely a third party organisation acting on Arsenal's behalf. It's a lot easier to get angry with property developers than with the Club, and if they carry on scoring own goals like this then Arsenal might want to intervene or replace them.

This reminds me a bit of the regeneration of Paddington Basin. Lots of tall gleaming modern buildings, but every single shop or bar is a chain store. Hardly a community atmosphere.

The O2 was an indoor full size pitch facility - all weather all year round.

The Sobell is not there for kids to be coached - its there for paying customers - mainly adult to keep fit.

The number of out door pitches is also falling in number.
Arsenal promised to replace the centre.

Shouldnt the club promote a link between itself and the community? Maybe they will find the next Charlie George. Maybe they will create loyal suppot amongst local kids and parents. Football needs to put more back into the grass roots.

Nobody is asking that they do more, just do what they did before the move. If they could affod it when at Highbury why not now when they have more money?

As far as the kids are concerned, the home of football is at Arsenal, not Clissold Park, or the Sobell, the school they attend every day, or anywhere else. The buzz they used to get at the Highbury centre was amazing.

When you consider the mutual benefits an Arsenal sports centre would give to the kids, to the council and to the Club's image, it's hard to imagine why anybody would want to factor in the opportunity cost of the so-called prime land (which used to be a rubbish dump, by the way)

I don't envy the person who is going to explain to the thousands of kids that they no longer matter.

Money guys, money. We need our club to become profitable so that we are able to compete in the transfer market. Arsenal have scouts operating all around the world that can unearth talent. Top clubs no longer look for talent within their catchment area, times have changed, football has gone global. If someone is good enough to play for Arsenal within the tiny Islington area, they will be spotted.

Over a 17 year period, how much will this building cost the club in terms of construction costs, running costs and lost revenue? How much will the delays to construction cost in terms of redesign, legal and administration fees? Is it worth it for what effectively is an after-school activity centre in an area of the world that has plenty?

A young lad has hit the nail on the head with his comments in yesterday's Islington Tribune. (See the article ĎGap between rich and poor leads to violence on streetsí)

"http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/2008/071108/news071108_05.html"

"Michael Potten, 19, who last month won an EC1 New Deal Pride award, told a meeting of Islington Councilís executive last week that, with multi-million pound complexes next to council estates, young people were surrounded by things they want but cannot have"

Pretty poignant, eh?

Another thing - if the sole purpose of the indoor football facility was to recruit future stars then it would be financially pointless. But it's much more than that. It's about youth diversion, giving the kids something to aim for, visible goodwill from Arsenal, and so on.

If we could measure the costs of NOT having a community sports centre at the home of football (e.g. crime, obesity, alienation, etc) then even the profiteers would see this as a no-brainer.

Money, Money, Money does buys some things and others certainly not. In the case of a our beloved Arsenal, letís remember that our stadium it is in the midst of an urban environment, surrounded by residents who are also taxpayers and voters, -most of whom donít give a toss about football, and if they do, it is mostly antipathy as they would rather see their neighbourhood free from rowdy fans, noisy games, road closures, intrusive helicopters, smelly food vendors, hundreds of policemen, police vans, dogs, barriers and the deplorable rubbish left behind some of our less considerate brethren. Believe me, Ií would not buy a property in Highbury!
If said taxpayers and voters actively boycott Arsenal because of its stubbornness in refusing to fulfil the promise made to the community to rebuild the JVC Sports Centre, we will have to spend a lot more money buying them back. It is impossible in a democracy to freely antagonise a community; 3000 signatories of a petition can become a serious political force.
Money in this case can buy us back some of the support weíve lost in the community.

I think you'll also find Arsenal soccer schools in places like Singapore. In fact, everywhere in the world except Highbury.

I remember when Cheddar cheese was being made everywhere in the world except Cheddar and one day a businessman brought it back to its origins as a boost to tourism. With luck, a like-minded businessman will want to bring football back to Highbury but if he leaves it too late all the land will have been snapped up for private use.

Has anyone ever suggested that an Arsenal sports centre would be hogged by Islington residents? The whole idea of a communal sports centre is to make it available to everyone. Grown men used to travel down from places like Hatfield to use the JVC/O2 Centre, and they'd be back here like a shot if it was replaced.

It doesn't stop there. Arsenal fans often come over from places like Sweden and the first thing they ask is whether it's worth bringing their kit to play at the Arsenal sports centre. I suppose the answer to these tourists is yes, so long as they are prepared to lie about their age and take a 16-mile bus journey along the Great Cambridge Road

1. There is no indoor footballing facility within Islington that could house the 48 children per session, that the JVC did.

2. How can you quote Clissold park, Finsbury park, Whittington park?

Clissold & finsbury are parks!!!! Weather dependant if sessions take place or not(GRASS), and whittington park now has an astro that is HIRED out.

3. The JVC centre was the only pitch I knew put on a pedestal in the terms of it being 'AT' Arsenal. How great was that for the children...Ive just played football at Arsenal. Be it Children that live local or children travelling from abroad. Coaches can go into schools but there is a huge difference.

4. The centre did not only cover football it was used for tennis,hockey and indoor bowls (Pensioners).

5. As for the money side, why cant the centre be self sufficient? the pitch could be hired out from 6-10pm for paying adults (as per jvc centre) 7 days a week.

6. What we are all forgetting and nobody seems to have raised the point is: Arsenal promised with literature (not verbal) a replacement sports centre. (locals were satisfied with Arsenals offer). As soon as Planning permission was granted, the club pulled on its promise, giving local residents no voice? and to top that Islington council have allowed this to happen.

7. Liquidd think about the bigger picture and who this affects, you only talk about children? you haven't mentioned the pensioner bowlers that used the centre twice a week, or the Visually impaired groups, or the Deaf groups, or homeless groups or over 35s league there on a sunday night, hopefully my point is made.

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