But the other side of me says, Michelle has lived her youthful dream. Rachael, Caroline, Mirai and the rest have dreams, too.

This is the kind of argument I hate. Yeah, others have dreams, but they're not the legendary Michelle Kwan. They haven't earned anything like what she's earned. The whole world would be agog to see if she could pull off this comeback.

Personally I don't think she can and I don't want to watch her pant and struggle. I would personally rather watch the young 'uns develop. But if Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan got to try it, so should Kwan. It has nothing to do with being nice or fair to the kiddies. It's all about who's the best. The kiddies have to earn it.

I don't mean to be disrespectful by calling the teenagers "kiddies" but there is a parental overtone in some views on this subject. As if skating competitions were birthday parties where all the children must be invited so no one gets their feelings hurt. Pshaw!

But the other side of me says, Michelle has lived her youthful dream. Rachael, Caroline, Mirai and the rest have dreams, too.

This is the kind of argument I hate. Yeah, others have dreams, but they're not the legendary Michelle Kwan. They haven't earned anything like what she's earned. The whole world would be agog to see if she could pull off this comeback.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I am saying, the younger skaters have dreams, too, and I hope Michelle steps aside and gives them their day in the spotlight.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I am saying, the younger skaters have dreams, too, and I hope Michelle steps aside and gives them their day in the spotlight.

I don't think I misunderstood. I'm saying Kwan had dreams and earned her time in the spotlight with all kinds of wins. The others have dreams but.... you want to reward them for the dreams.

I don't want anyone who's great to step aside for the next generation. I want to see who's greatest and if the younger generation never reaches the podium - well, that just shows they're not the greatest. Boo-hoo! I hope and assume they're big-souled enough to have enjoyed the ride and learned a lot.

Well, they would all have to compete against each other. Kwan can probably get to Nationals without thwarting anyone else's dream of competing at Nationals. As for a spot on the Olympic team, I trust that what happens on the ice *at* Nationals will have more effect on who gets named to the team than anybody's past legendary status.

Whether Kwan competes or not, whether Cohen competes or not, either way there will be US girls who are good enough to go the Olympics who will not have the opportunity because others were better and there are limited spots available. Some dreams will be disappointed no matter what.

And returning skaters would be just as subject to that kind of disappointment as the younger hopefuls.

How would you feel if Michelle returned to US Nationals, showed off her edges and maturity and connection with her fans, had strong choreography, and showed she could still land some difficult triples . . . and finished, oh, say, sixth?

Would that be satisfying for fans?

I think it might be OK with the died-in-the-wool, long live the Kween, fans.

But it would not make her any new fans and the general reaction would be, that was then, this is now -- what's she doing still out here?!

Would that be satisfying for Michelle?

I cannot imagine that this would be an acceptable outcome for Michelle. I do not think she would put herself through all that, just in the hope that she might win sixth place in a skating competition.

I don't think I misunderstood. I'm saying Kwan had dreams and earned her time in the spotlight with all kinds of wins. The others have dreams but.... you want to reward them for the dreams.

Oh, sorry. I was the one that misunderstood.

This is what I think. I do not particularly admire adults who try to extend their adolescence by continuing to devote themselves to children's games after they are grown up.

Just look at the personal immaturity of professional football, baseball and basketeball players, for instance.

What I do admire Michelle Kwan for is going back to college and completing her degree, for serving in the U.S. State Department as goodwill ambassor, and for dreaming new dreams about a possible career in public service.

Please lets end the speculation....I just want everyone to know that that TBA spot at Skate America is for me!! I got my costume ready (size super large in the ugliest colors I could find!!!), my skates are sharp (do I even have skates???) and my coach is waiting (I am sure those instructional videos I watched will work).........I plan on winning............oh wait...I don't know how to skate!!!!

This is what I think. I do not particularly admire adults who try to extend their adolescence by continuing to devote themselves to children's games after they are grown up.

Just look at the personal immaturity of professional football, baseball and basketeball players, for instance.

What I do admire Michelle Kwan for is going back to college and completing her degree, for serving in the U.S. State Department as goodwill ambassor, and for dreaming new dreams about a possible career in public service.

Well, I can't disagree with this and I too can't really understand why she would come back since she seems to have made the transition.

Maybe our main difference is that I make more allowance for individual variations. People leave sports at different ages. Some people never leave the "childish" world of sports (although they take new roles). Some athletes are burning to test the limits of the body's potential.

Also I guess I take more of a romantic approach to talent. Great talents like Kwan's or Cohen's or Plushenko's or Shen/Zhao's come along very rarely. Far be it from me to tell them what to do and when. Sure, it's better for them and the world if sports geniuses can go on to become doctors and parents and good citizens, and I wish they would, but if not, I'm not going to judge them.

You have one-sided talents who are "immature" and undeveloped in other areas in every field, anyway - not just sports. We probably owe some of our greatest scientific discoveries and artistic masterpieces to them. So be it. IMO, the masterpieces, discoveries and great skating programs are worth the cost as long as no one's getting abused or murdered. (Always assuming those costs are freely undertaken and not forced.)

I think it might be OK with the died-in-the-wool, long live the Kween, fans. But it would not make her any new fans and the general reaction would be, that was then, this is now -- what's she doing still out here?!

Sure, and then it would be on Michelle's shoulders to prove what she WAS still doing out there. If she succeeded, a lot of people would have egg on their face. If she failed, she could end up embarrassing herself. It's just that given the stratospheric standard she set for herself, the latter is far more likely.

Originally Posted by Mathman

I cannot imagine that this would be an acceptable outcome for Michelle. I do not think she would put herself through all that, just in the hope that she might win sixth place in a skating competition.

Which competition though? I wouldn't place her as low as you say, if it were Nationals. But I will say that she shined in an era long gone, and it would be better for her overall record of accomplishments to just hang it up. It's pretty obvious she couldn't achieve Olympic gold now without an outright miracle, and that's the one thing she was missing. Then again, given today's Asian competition it's also obvious that Sasha won't achieve Olympic gold without a miracle, and she IS back. However, Sasha is 4 years younger and still has more to prove. After earning a caseload of gold medals, Michelle has nothing left to prove.

...Maybe our main difference is that I make more allowance for individual variations. People leave sports at different ages. Some people never leave the "childish" world of sports (although they take new roles). Some athletes are burning to test the limits of the body's potential.

Also I guess I take more of a romantic approach to talent. Great talents like Kwan's or Cohen's or Plushenko's or Shen/Zhao's come along very rarely. Far be it from me to tell them what to do and when. Sure, it's better for them and the world if sports geniuses can go on to become doctors and parents and good citizens, and I wish they would, but if not, I'm not going to judge them...

I have no problem with Michelle competing at SA and/or National's, or trying for an Olympic title. As some already said, we should send our _best_ to the Olympics and World's, and if she's still the best after all this time, then she deserves to go. I would love to see Michelle skate again, in competitions or not. She has such a great gift in skating, I hope she will not hang up her skates for the rest of her life!

There are just two things I don't feel too good about. One is that I'm not certain that judging will be fair, especially at National's, when it comes to deciding the Olympic team. What if Michelle gets gifted relative to the other skaters, as Alissa was last year. I have little doubt that Michelle can skate at last as well as Alissa if she puts in serious training from now on, and does it mean that she should be gifted an Olympic birth with three triples and sky-high PCS, when the younger girls are skating their hearts out with 7 triples? I sure hope not! It just wouldn't be fair (as it was unfair last year. I just can't get over how Caroline was robbed of better placement at National's last year, and therefore a chance to skate at World's and be a seeded skater herself this year (and thus land much easier GP assignments), plus the competitive momentum going into this season as the top US lady.). This is not an issue with Michelle herself, but rather my lack of confidence of US judges with competent, fair judging.

The other issue is that Michelle's delaying her decision has now significantly affected the GP assignments, by making the third SA spot TBA. I said from the beginning that this potential TBA due to Michelle would be likely to affect someone's GP assignment, not so much a girl who might have gotten to skate in a second GP (or a first GP like Maxwell or Musademba or Diggs), but rather someone who could've had a home GP instead of a tough GP elsewhere. Caroline turned out to be the unlucky girl here. Rachael and Caroline were the obvious two top ones coming into this season. I think the chances are high that Caroline would've gotten that spot and avoided the disastrous TEB lineup, had USFSA not reserved the TBA for Michelle. Now even if Michelle decided not to compete, Caroline is still stuck with her lot. I think it's really uncool that Michelle is delaying her decision so much that it's affecting other people's Olympic season. And you know what, probably in the end Michelle won't come back anyway.

I don't buy the idea that US Nats judges will shoo Michele or Sasha into the Olympics at the expense of Caroline et al.

There's no reason for them to think Olympic judges would share the same bias and favor the old-time US skaters over the current leaders. Therefore, to shoo in the old-timers because of bias would backfire. Sasha and Michelle would make fools of themselves and the US judges would be buried in ignominy. The US judges have to send the best skaters. Let's hope those are the ones who skate best at Nationals.

For reasons that only Sasha knows, Sasha needs to go to the 2010 Olympics. Maybe the driving goal is the OGM or at least a second Olympic medal and (maybe) a second US Championship. Maybe she feels a second Olympic run is needed to keep hopes for an acting career alive. For Sasha, her world revolves about skating and/or acting.

Michelle doesn't need to go to the 2010 Olympics, but she might want to, if only to complete her career on her terms. She has a college degree and extensive experience as a roving diplomat, and there are many career opportunities open to her.