I read that story. They had to take temperatures twice a day, and turn in high temps to the State vet. Same, if I'm not mistaken, as was put in place at Hawthorne.

Do you think the whopping $25 fine for non-compliance was the deal sealer there?

And you know, it occurs to me that when a January 14 story is titled "Virus Precautions Stepped Up", and is talking about additional new measures above and beyond those put in place when the thing began in December, that maybe it indicates all the tough biosecurity measures were NOT put in place at the very beginning like you have repeatedly claimed (from your reading of "the transcripts of the outbreak"?)

The BTW corollary to Godwin's Law is that every horse-related argument will eventually degenerate into people accusing other posters of Not Caring As Much About Horses As They Themselves Do. It never fails.

I think that's written in the set of forum rules you must agree to when you sign up.

You have such a profound knack for twisting ones words dont you? My economics VS those who wish to run?? Please do make some sense of this. My economics have nothing to do with trainers who wish to run. Ive stated this several times before that they should have shut down at the very onset. But do what you do best...it suits you so well.

Yes, that's what you say now, but you weren't on here saying that as long as the bug was confined to Barn A and there was hope it could all be over quick, when maybe come up and run later in the meet.

When your horses got sick, you went on about how irresponsible it was to send horses in your barn out with the general population, but you only kept yours off the track in support of that horses first principle a couple days. Pretty quick they were right back out there. Was that an economic decision that trumped the horse welfare of other trainers, or did you suddenly decide the practice didn't really endanger other horses? If the latter, so much for the racing out of sick barns argument.

It's the fact that the other trainers in her barn are not following sanitation and cleanliness protocols that makes this worthless. THAT is what Equi was saying. Keeping horses in the barn to protect against a virus does not do much when you have horses, that are drinking from the same trough and whose grooms are oblivious to cleanliness and sterilization, passing down your shedrow.

When we ceased training, we were hopeful that the other trainers, at least in our barn would do the same. When they did not, it made little sense continue boycot with no support, and with the remaining 40+ horses coming in and out daily.My horses have been completely exposed. Our VET as well as ourselves, believe that it's run it's course through our barn. We hope that stands true. If it does, that would actually make our barn a decent barn to be in, and so far, after our fatality and removing the 3 positives to k-2, (two have since tested negative and have returned to training). The only other issue is Reavis' recent fatality. And that was a horse he claimed.

If we a going to be the only trainer not running, that just isn't effective. Oh, and if it isn't press through racing...why didn't they let Jimmy D. Run for 2 months?Speaking of which...do you really believe no one poke up during that time ? If so, you should talk to Jimmy. I did a few days ago, and know that he was very vocal, it just fell on deaf ears. They took his racing from him for 2 months because of 2 fatalities....we had 2 in our barn and could race the same day.....

Marcus gets his "tidbits" from going out and talking to the horsemen and asking for facts and how they feel about how this is being handled. Not from frontside.We sure haven't seen anyone from frontside doing the same. And it seems like the only time the state vet leaves office is to put a pos. Down and for live racing) This "horses are examined 3X a day before racing" is a nice story for the public, but simply untrue. No one as come to our barn to per-race examine horses.

When we ceased training, we were hopeful that the other trainers, at least in our barn would do the same. When they did not, it made little sense continue boycott with no support, and with the remaining 40+ horses coming in and out daily.

If it's the principle of the thing, what others are doing shouldn't make a difference. How do you know that one of your horses might not infect one of someone else's? Even just one horse is too many, right? But you made the economic decision to continue, despite the chance you might infect someone else. The same thing exactly that all these other people have done.

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Speaking of which...do you really believe no one poke up during that time ? If so, you should talk to Jimmy. I did a few days ago, and know that he was very vocal, it just fell on deaf ears.

It's the fact that the other trainers in her barn are not following sanitation and cleanliness protocols that makes this worthless. THAT is what Equi was saying. Keeping horses in the barn to protect against a virus does not do much when you have horses, that are drinking from the same trough and whose grooms are oblivious to cleanliness and sterilization, passing down your shedrow.

A principle is a principle. If you're giving it up because it's inconvenient, costs you money, or other people don't agree with you, it's not much of a principle.

It was an attempt to gain cooperation from our entire affected barn. When it was clear that the remaining trainers in the barn were going to train regardless, it made little sense to keep our horses in and become martyrs...it woud have accomplished nothing.However, if it HAD gone the other way, maybe our entire barn as a unit would have set a standard for others to follow. Obviously, that didn't happen. But not for our lack of trying.

Oh, and the details of my personal conversation with Jimmy D., are the business of myself, my husband and Jimmy. I can say that he was most definitely not quiet during the outbreak though.

And we never gave up on our principles. Quite the contrary. We still continue to implement and encourage others to be diligent in their hygiene practices. We literally spray our jocks down when they come in and leave to go to another barn. At first, they were like...huh ? Now, they do it on their own....something they were NOT made to do between races. Our hay man, NOW sprays down before leaving. It's our policy. If we had given up...what would we care if they left our barn without spaying down ? They all said that this is the first time they had been asked to do so in ANY barn...names : Jerry Hauert, hay man. Julio Felix, jockey, Edgar Perez, Jockey. Irene Hock, Owner. That's just a couple. The rule applies to ANYONE coming in our barn. Given up, no, it's not in our make up...

It was an attempt to gain cooperation from our entire affected barn. When it was clear that the remaining trainers in the barn were going to train regardless, it made little sense to keep our horses in and become martyrs...it woud have accomplished nothing.

So, in other words you made a pragmatic economic decision. Nothing wrong with that. But that's all anyone else has done.

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Oh, and the details of my personal conversation with Jimmy D., are the business of myself, my husband and Jimmy. I can say that he was most definitely not quiet during the outbreak though.

Of course. The details are personal ... but not the claim that he spoke up.

And I don't doubt that he spoke up about something, either. But as to whether it was about the bug getting out of Barn A and practices or non-practices that might lead to that?

I do have to agree with you that at this point it sure seems puzzling that those Barn A horses aren't able to compete, if yours are.

I read that story. They had to take temperatures twice a day, and turn in high temps to the State vet. Same, if I'm not mistaken, as was put in place at Hawthorne.

Do you think the whopping $25 fine for non-compliance was the deal sealer there?

And you know, it occurs to me that when a January 14 story is titled "Virus Precautions Stepped Up", and is talking about additional new measures above and beyond those put in place when the thing began in December, that maybe it indicates all the tough biosecurity measures were NOT put in place at the very beginning like you have repeatedly claimed (from your reading of "the transcripts of the outbreak"?)

I saw no notices on "whinnies" or any where else that temps were to be recorded twice daily and the logs were to be sent to the stewards and if someone failed to follow protocol they would be fined. Keep in mind "Beulah" runs for way less money so at Hawthorne perhaps the fine should have been !00 skins! Please if there was such a protocol post it!

I saw no notices on "whinnies" or any where else that temps were to be recorded twice daily and the logs were to be sent to the stewards and if someone failed to follow protocol they would be fined.

The issue is how protocols could have kept the bug from jumping out of Barn A. The horses in Barn A were already exposed and being monitored, as well as isolated there in Barn A, and still isolated even after they moved. By the time a suspicious temp showed up outside Barn A the bug would already have jumped. But in any case, Equiforce already told us there were protocols for twice daily temperatures and logs. No published whopper $25 fines, though.

"In addition to disinfecting the Starting Gate, Paddock and Receiving barn daily, this will also be done between every race to the paddock and starting gate. Also, Hawthorne will be providing hand sanitizer for all valets, starting gate crew, jockeys, pre-race veterinarians and detention barn staff.

These are all further precautions and while they may seem extreme, it is better to be overly cautious.

Additionally, we ask that if your horse is brought to the detention barn for testing, trainers provide buckets, sponges and scrapers for your horse."

"As always, we ask horsemen to continue to monitor activities within their own barn. We ask that horsemen instruct their staff about the importance of proper hygiene and how it can affect horses. Additionally, we ask horsemen to continue to notify their practicing veterinarian or state veterinarian at any time at which a horse spikes a fever. While a fever can occur, especially at this time of year, for a multitude of reasons, it is important to make sure it is treated quickly and properly."

Right. You never did post anything at all about Hawthorne's biosecurity measures and all that bad stuff you supposedly saw with your own eyes, until well after the bug jumped out of Barn A. Nothing at all in time to make a difference. Not one post of warning for your fellow horsemen and their horses.

As I posted pages ago....the ramifications of this fiasco will be felt for a long time to come. Let's face it, everyone dropped the ball here. Hopefully the Horsemen will recover from this. I am not so sure about Hawthorne or the State.

Hand sanitizer That's too funny...did they run out of boot, glove and pants sanitizer....the jockeys have told me that they didn't know to completely de-funk between races...what about antiviral Lysol ? 5.00 a can...one in every box....

That's a big fat no...BUT...they had hand sanitizer...does anyone else hear how ridiculous that sounds ? They have to take their potentially infected gloves off...to hand sanitize...before they put their gloves back on....

Hand sanitizer That's too funny...did they run out of boot, glove and pants sanitizer....the jockeys have told me that they didn't know to completely de-funk between races...what about antiviral Lysol ? 5.00 a can...one in every box....

That's a big fat no...BUT...they had hand sanitizer...does anyone else hear how ridiculous that sounds ? They have to take their potentially infected gloves off...to hand sanitize...before they put their gloves back on....

That was dated October 16. Were any horses from Barn A out there racing?

It seems to me that if we had all these expert & experienced horsemen and private vets on the backside (and watching from downstate, and out by Arlington) all along, who knew all the dangers and had all the answers to prevent the spread, that there should have been a big loud furor up front that not enough was being done, by either track or State or horsemen. But there wasn't. How odd. We had several threads about the virus before your horse went down (replete with rumors) but no mention at all of the measures being inadequate while things were confined to Barn A .