Yea I agree.... way too much SM influence, and honestly your going to scare away a heap of prospective buyers releasing a new SM 'chapter'. There are more than enough already.The FotM rerollers will play them for a few months, but people who want something different than SM's won't touch them with a 10foot pole.

Also the GWS employees generally get the codex early, but aren't meant to show anyone the contents, although this depends entirely on the shop and the employees. Real rules leaks are when the codexes hit the shops and people actually see it in person.

See the thing is, GW doesnt care about how accurate its is. All they want is teh monies. Thats why their would be so much SM influence, because SM's sell. SM's account for more sales than everything else combined, and i doubt it will change.... and i also wouldnt be surprised if that IS the real army list. Thats alright, im not going to buy any of the other trash anyway....

Well, as 'rumors' go, I really, really like what I see here. Interesting on the lack of IST though. Maybe the Purifier squad will be similar. As a Templar player, I'm hoping that if there really is a Brotherhood Champion he'll be much like the Emperor's one. Without the mandatory include of course. The best thing I like about this list? NO SPACE MONKIES!!

I usually try to stay quite neutral when it comes to rumors but the list seems to follow a trend I've seen w/ recent new codices. A LOT of options and choices are offered to run your lists in a variety of flavors. There might actually be some grains of accuracy here

_________________"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

The guy who posted the rumors is answering a lot of questions. Some answers I don't like such as our statline might be exactly like Space Marines. It's interesting stuff anyways. Scroll back and have a read:

The Shrouding- Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" benefit from stealth. And have 6+ cover even if in the open (so 5+ in the open and 3+ in most other cases)

Mind Blades- Start of any assault phase. Pick enemy unit within 6", they loose 1 toughness for the remainder of the assault.

Vortex of Doom- see C:SM

Sanctuary- Any enemy assault phase. Enemy units assaulting any GK unit within 12" of the librarian treat all terrain (including open ground) and difficult and dangerous terrain.

The Summoning- Librarian movement. Pick a friendly non vehicle unit. Place them within 6" of the librarian using the DS rules.

GK Grand Master Powers (level1)HammerhandPsychic communion - take test, if successfull GK player can modify reserve rolls by +1 or -1 and you can choose to modify after each roll.

Brother Captain (level 1)Same

Brotherhood Champion (level 1)HammerhandHeroic Sacrifice- during either players assault phase, when the "chaplain" is taken off as a casualty. Is passed, make one attack against any one model that he was in B2B with. If the attack hits, the model is also removed as a casualty with no saves... if the attack misses then no effect. Remember he is WS 7...

Purifier Squad:HHCleansing Flame- Start of the assault in any player turn. All enemy -models- that are a part of the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+ before any blows are struck. Casualties count towards combat resolution.

Brother Captain Stern Level 2:HHCommunionZone of Banishment: During his assault phase. All models friend and foe, within D6" (not stern), must take a strength test or be dragged into the warp... deamons re roll successful tests. These casualties do not count towards combat.

VERY interesting...if all these require psychic tests (which I assume they do), it'll be useless against eldar (stones) unless we have something to counter that...but still very interesting...

_________________"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

Army Wide Rules:Aegis: Psykers targeting a squad with Aegis suffer -1 Ld. Psykers within 12" of a dreadnought with Reinforced Aegis suffer -4 Ld.And They Shall Know No FearCombat SquadsPsyker PilotsBrotherhood of PsykersPsyker Mastery Levels: Character can use 1 psychic power per turn for each level (so 2 powers per turn at level 2).Preferred Enemy: Demons

Psychic Powers:Hammer Hand: +1 strength in Close CombatWarp Quake: Any deepstriking unit that lands within 12" suffers automatic mishap.Holocaust: S5 AP - Large Blast 12"Unknown: Unit becomes Initiative 10Warp-Rift: Template that auto removes models from playThe Summoning: A single friendly unit that is anywhere on the table is placed within 6" of the librarian and counts as deepstriking.Smite: As C:SMMight of Titan: Beginning of librarians assault phase. Unit within 6" gains +1 str and extra D6 armour pen vs vehicles. Bonus is cumulative with hammerhand.The Shrouding: Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" gain stealth (minimum 5+ cover in the open).Mind Blades: Start of any assault phase. One enemy unit within 6" loses 1 toughness for the rest of the assault phase.Vortex of Doom: As C:SMSanctury: Enemy assault phase. Enemy units wishing to assault any Grey Knight within 12" of librarian must make a difficult AND dangerous terrain test.Psychic Communion (Grandmaster and Captain only): Take a psychic test. If passed, you may modify any reserve rolls by + or -1.Heroic Sacrafice (Champion only): During any assault phase and when the "chaplain" dies. If the psychic test is passed, make one attack against any one model that is in base to base with the champion. If the attack hits, the model is removed as a casualty with no saves. If it misses, there is no effect.Cleansing Flame (Purifiers only): Start of any assault phase. All enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+ before any blows are struck with saving throws allowed. Casualties count towards combat resolution.Astral Aim (Purgation Squad only): Shooting Phase. Unit and attached characters may fire at any unit in range and regardless of line of sight. Target automatically gets a 4+ cover save that cannot be modified.Reconstruction (techmarines only): Beginning of techmarine's movement. Re-roll any repair roll.Fortitude (Vehicle only): At the start of Grey Knight player's turn, removes any shaken or stunned results. Zone of Banishment(Captain Stern only): During Stern's assault phase. All models (friend and foe, but NOT stern) within 6" make a strength test or are removed from play. Demons must re-roll successful tests.

Standard:Grand Master: ?Wargear: ?Options: ?Special Rules:Psyker Level 1Make Paladins troops.Pick D3 Units and give them a special rule:1) Makes them scoring (kinda neat for dread and or elite paladins)2) Makes them re roll 1s to wound all game3) Makes them have counter attack USR.4) Makes them ScoutNote: All these units are affected by the one choice.Psychic Powers: Hammerhand, Psychic Communion

Servitor: ? CheapWargear: Heavy Bolter or Multi-meltaOptions: Up to 3 can be armed with Plasma CannonsSpecial Rules: Mindlock without inquisitor

Weaponsmith: ?Wargear: Creates weapons like oblitorater (Lascannon, multi-melta, heavy Flamer)Options: ?Special Rules: Roll D6 each turn and add +1 starting at second turn. Bonus applies to squad:1) no effect.2) +12? range to all guns.3) Armor saves improved by one.4) All shooting weapons become rending5) All models gain a 5+ invuln6) "The Works": Roll twice on the table and apply both results. No result can be taken twice.

raven925 wrote:See the thing is, GW doesnt care about how accurate its is. All they want is teh monies. Thats why their would be so much SM influence, because SM's sell. SM's account for more sales than everything else combined, and i doubt it will change.... and i also wouldnt be surprised if that IS the real army list. Thats alright, im not going to buy any of the other trash anyway....

I see this same comment repeated constantly online and in person, and yet the people who are always prattling on about it don't ever seem to understand one fact.Space Marines are the biggest seller and the most popular because GWS make them that way. Anything similar to SM have been almost totally ignored (necrons) or removed from the game (squats), everyone else compares badly to Space Marines, everyone else waits 10x as long for any kind of attention, and generally pays more for their army.Space Marines are totally undercosted for what they are and what they do. If you look at most codexes and compare to a Space Marine codex (vanilla/SW/BA) then its pretty hard to choose anything else for a good reason. Unless you really look deep into many codexes they simply don't compare to SM. Infact even good codexes don't compare favourably to SM in large part.

People are literally dieing for anything non SM related that isn't impossible to play or require the highest learning curve in the game and it shows. Many of the codexes we have now are actually designed to face up badly against SM's.Even all the SM fanboi's are absolutely sick of only ever facing other SM's.

Add this to the fact that SM players have little to no dignity and you have a bunch of players that change their SM chapter with each new release, can't paint, can barely play, but have chosen the easiest army to play OR paint or club seals with.

If a chaos space marines codex was released tomorrow and it excelled at killing SM, and totally destroyed BA, SW and IG then we would see an instantaneous change with 50% of the 40k playerbase suddenly being CSM instead of SM. Why? Because WYSIWYG basically allows them to just swap at the drop of the hat.

You're being a bit hard on the Space Marines there. I started Space Wolves because I liked the style of the army and more importantly, I got a whole bunch of long fangs and wolf guard when they sold off all the lead models to make way for white metal. The concept of a small group of well equipped heroes planting their feet firmly on the gaming table and yelling 'come and ave a go if you think you're ard enough' in a Beowulf/ 13th Warrior fashion appealed to my roleplaying/beer drinking side. I never used them as anything else because it just wouldn't seem right.

I've designed my chaos space marines to kill their imperial counterparts. It has autocannons for rhino killing, lascannons for scary thing killing, and plasma guns, flamers and bolters for everyone else. I don't use the lash because it would make me a bad person: I grew out of insta-win abilities when I was 12. They've never lost to space marines, but an ork horde did give them trouble a couple of weeks ago. Still, at least my army fitted into a single layer figure case in 4 minutes. He had boxes to fill for 16 minutes.

As far as the rumours go, the only thing I'm actually excited about is not having to take the power armoured grey knights. But I'm still hoping for something that will make a teleport assault more viable.

I just read on the itinerary for the school league regional finals we have half an hour of 'new releases.' It's on the 30th of March up in Nottingham so I figure there's a fair chance the new knights will be kicking around. By then I expect they'll be in the White Dwarf anyway, but I'll see if there's anything new.

I'm sorry brothers but I read these rumous a couple of days ago and something just does not sit right with me about them.

I could point out numerous examples but there are glaring omissions of bits that are missing or seam incorrect.

The most obvious one is the name of the dreadknight. Now correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this name something that the fans made up due to a lack of a proper name. How can someone get the names of many/ all special characters but not be able to get the correct name for one of the most anticipated units in the 'dex!

Well, you can't handle the truth!! Erm, sorry. Just coulddn't resist the Nicholson A Few Good Men Line. We'll, my gut feeling is the rumors from that Augustine fellow is on the up and up. Granted, we've been burned before so it's just a wait and see scenario. I'm liking his info on the Brotherhood Champion. He describes it as a cross between a Chaplain and Emperor's Champion with certain battle stances he can choose from.

I feel that even if these rumors may seem concrete, they are getting a bit out of hand for my own liking. I just wish the new codex will come out sooner to be done with the wishlisting and finally see what has happened to the GK.

My fingers are crossed in hope that we really don't lose Fearless or our +2 to Strength in CC with our NFW. That is all that I'm really hoping for, not to lose those benefits. I just love how our NFW work right now, I could care less if they all happened to be power weapons and easily rip a marine apart with a casual swipe of a blade.

Brothers, I know its hard to let go of the cool stuff that we have/had (S6 attacks, Fearless, etc). But we have to keep an open mind on all the new stuff we're getting and how it all ties up together. We're not going to like all the changes that's for sure but I think the overall end product will be something we will enjoy. Will it change the way we've been playing? Most probably. Why? Because we'll have a lot of other options to choose from as well as adapt to any new "weaknesses" we may perceive we have.Just a theoretical example: IF it is true that our nemesis force weapons count as power weapons and IF it is true that nemesis force halberd upgrades add +1 initiative, you're looking at I5 power weapon attacks for the whole squad! That's not bad in any arena IMHO. But that's just an example. My point is, if we keep an open mind, it'll be easier to accept changes, good and bad

_________________"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

Power Weapons are good but if we're WS4 and S4 that's 4+/4+ vs. average Marines. Not nearly as good as 3+/2+ we were before. Yes, what we wound would die but we'll wound a lot less. It'll balance and we may do the same damage on average against 3+ armor saves. I think the area we'll really feel it more now is against horde/lightly armored armies.

some of these rumours seem reasonable others just seem over the top and dont really fit not just the fluff but what GW has done before, i'll reserve judgement until i actually see the rules. having 2 types of terminators seems strange somehow , and far too many special characters , I hope we see the dread knight in the first wave, i really hope we dont loose the ws5 as otherwise our basic marines are no better than normal tact marines and in the fluff at times GK have purged other marine chapters we should be the best (not without weaknesses) the emperors finest