I’ve never had a camera before, not even a film one, so I’ve been interested in getting one for a long time.

When I first started looking the Canon 350D was out, not long after it was the 400D. Now that I have found out that the 400D range has an 18 months cycle and my father’s 65th birthday is at the end of April, with all expenses paid for all 16 of our family, the prospect of the 450D was worth waiting for.

The problem is that it would not give me much time to get used to it.

Now I have been reading so much fantastic information from this site: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/ (a must for anyone interested in camera equipment), plus Cameralabs.com and finally eso-forums.com.

I respect Gordon for his expertise when reading his articles in PC World magazine etc, as I’m an IT technician, software tester and copyrighter for a major backup company etc. I also know that Gordon knows his stuff pertaining to cameras, so I did his name search and found his camera forum.

I have read the arguments for and against going for the 400D and a better lens over the 40D and standard lens that comes as part of the package on this forum.

I’ve only held the 400D in June, while holidaying in Wales, and the Nikon equivalent that was £300 more because of the lens. Straight away I liked the 400D but the feel of the Nikon beat it.

So on reading those advocating the 40D being the way to go I have been researching, and I mean a lot. Even Martin from Martin’s Camera Shop, who saw the full list (no included here) knew I had spent a lot of time educating myself. Much of the equipment like the Gitzo GT-2530EX Explorer 6X Carbon Fibre Tripod Legs (Rapid Column) and Arca-Swiss Monoball Z1 DP (Double Pan) Ballhead with Quick Release I will get in America. The remaining equipment prices from the USA cannot be beaten in the UK but I wanted the electronic equipment from the UK anyway.

Canon 20-70 F2.8 L (Typo-error. It should be 24-70 (any reference to 20-70 in any further posts of mine is really referring to the 24-70mm f/2.8L)
This one: http://tinyurl.com/22e7ra)
Price: £765 or £675 with Canon cashback

There is a £8.99 delivery charge by DHL but this is regardless of the amount of equipment delivered. There is also the option of a 3% discount if paid by money transfer or cheque instead of credit card.

The total was £2705.47 – 3% money transfer (£81.16) = Grand Total of £2624.31

Taking into consideration these were the best prices from multiple searches and comparisons and Martin’s Camera Shop kindly offered to equal the price, I was very happy to purchase all of my equipment from him.

This is much more than I wanted to pay but the 40D had build quality and feel advantages over the 400-450D that I had read about. In addition, the 40D had any advantages that would be incorporated in to the new update of the 400D now. This would give me plenty of time to get used to it for my father’s 65th family birthday trip to Orlando. So I did it. And I’m very happy that I did.

About Martin’s Camera Shop.

I left a message on their answering machine on Saturday 17 and on the morning of Monday 19 Martin phoned me. I know nothing about cameras so I asked him all sorts of questions relating to the 40D, the 20-70 F28 L lens etc and what this and that meant. Over the next couple of days I spoke to Martin, the first phone call on Monday lasted for over 30 mins. Subsequent phone calls to Martin were about little details, technical details and payment etc and so latest about 15 mins. Martin took the time and effort to assist me but without me feeling I was wasting his time or that I felt he wanted to do better things with his time. I felt relaxed as opposed to hurried to ask him questions etc. The first impression I had of him and the expertise I could tell he had, sold me immediately that Martin’s Camera Shop was the one I wanted to do business with. All we needed to do was decide on the final price. Martin accommodated me in ever regard and on Wednesday 21 the test payment went through and on the night of Thursday 22 the final instalment was paid. So within 4 days I had spent over £2600 and Martin’s Camera Shop had got a new and very happy customer.

So my advice to anyone looking to purchase new equipment is to phone Martin’s Camera Shop and talk to Lynda for non-technical matters and Martin for technical matters.

Give them a call. There website does not have much equipment on their site. Such an inventory is very time consuming, so phone them and explain your requirements and then phone and use email thereafter. All the equipment is there or can be ordered within days. Mine will take only a little extra time because of the little pieces such as the B+W filters. Martin deals primarily with Hoya filters. So by Friday 30th I should be unpacking it all.

I will let you know how I get on.

Last edited by G on Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

A warm welcome to the CameraLabs forums and congratulations on a well written first post, not to mention the purchase a wonderful set of kit. It's also nice to hear personal recommendations when you receive good service from a store.

Looking at your equipment list the only apparent omission is a decent telephoto zoom such as the EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM. Still, it's nice to have something else to look forward to...

Let us know how you get on. Maybe an article in our User Reviews forum? I am pretty sure we haven't had a report about the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM or the Gitzo GT-2530EX yet, to name just a couple of items.

Wow, I think that equipment is a bit too 'high-end' for someone who has never had a camera before. Especially that 24-70 f2.8, it's one of the best lenses canon has and is mostly used by professionals.

why 'too high end'? what would be the point in spending money on a lesser lens just because someone is a beginner? iv only ever really used film and a 4 year old point and shoot digital and am soon getting a dslr. getting a canon 30d which isnt exactly a first dslr but why not get the best i can afford now?

I just saw your post Gordon. I can assure you all that I do not work for Martin’s Camera Shop. They are in North Yorkshire (UK) and I’m in Kent (UK). The first time I found out about them was when I was comparison shopping using:

Martin’s Camera Shop popped up quite a few times but I needed to speak to them as the website inventory is rather sparse: it’s impossible to keep up I guess. I also needed to speak to an expert. It’s a lot of money, regardless of the exhaustive research I carried out to base a purchase like this on, not seeing or feeling any of it before. They did have the main elements of what I was after though. Namely, Canon 40D, Canon 20-70 f/2.8L and Canon Speedlite 580 Mark II. So even with these three items I knew they were worth phoning up.

Because I had no inventory to inspect on Martin’s Camera Shop I searched Amazon.co.uk and the other companies for prices. I know what they cost from the US shop http://www.bhphotovideo.com but I needed an idea of the price in the UK too. Sometimes the price is close enough that it is worth buying from the UK. Plus I wanted to buy the electronic equipment from a UK reseller.

I showed Martin the price list for the other equipment and he said he would do his best to match them all but could not guarantee that he could until he sorted out his own calculations (I said that was fine). Places that I had a price list created from were from the likes of, Amazon.co.uk (on quite a few of the smaller items), other camera shops or a shop that sold washing machines too (I didn’t like that Idea). I wanted to shop with a dedicated camera shop and once I spoke to Martin I was impressed. It really is as simple as that.

If any one phones Martin they will know what I mean. “Who needs to waste their time with a newbie, I thought?” But he did.

I do the same for newbie’s at Sysopt.com (alias G).

That’s the story – honest.

Gordon, Martin did explain the benefits for and against the two lenses. What he did say was that they were both excellent lenses and either would be a great choice. But after chatting to him I was hooked on the 20-70 f/2.8L.

I’ve recounted most of the conversations we had below, but there was a bit more to it than I can now remember. I just posted to say thanks for all the posts I read that helped educate me.

Martin from Martin’s Camera Shop, I cannot recommend more highly. I haven’t got loads of money to spend but if I want something special like a plasma TV or hi-fi set for watching DVDs etc, I do my research, a lot of it, and then spend my money.

Now I can honestly say that Martin is welcome to my business and in the future, as is Richer Sounds. Why because they both care about their customers and will bend over backwards to help you make the best choice. They will explain the pros and cons and so worth and explain extra information that will help enhance a setup even though they are not going to make any more money and the deal has already been done. So as with Martin’s Camera Shop, I get my hi-fi equipment from Richer Sounds. I used to have a Linn Sondek LP at £3000 + for playing LPs – the whole setup was over £8000 in 1987. But now I’m older, and need to spread the money around. Richer Sounds equipment is more than adequate. It isn’t necessary for me to pay for a B + W front surround speaker for £1650 nowadays. I’ve got the best Mordaunt Short upright speakers and their amazing Genie subwoofer – that thing goes real low

My point is. Regardless as to whether it is camera kip or any thing in life, e.g., car, hi-fi, one has to make an informed decision, with the help of expertise from others in the business, and with the monetary means available. As I said in my opening post, the camera kit was way more than I was going to spend, but I read so much that was good about the 40D and noticed you guys and girls’ signatures rapidity changing with the 40D included, I reconsider the 40D.

So let me thank you guys and gales of Cameralabs.com and eos-forums.com, for the many interesting and informative posts that I’ve read and used to make my final decision

The reason for my choice of lens is this. I want to get in to portrait and landscape photography. Obviously, ideally one would need quite a few lenses to cover all possibilities. However, as I have said, there was a monetary limit I couldn’t go beyond. I read here on the boards about the Canon EF 24-105f/4L. So I asked Martin about this as opposed to the Canon 24-70 f/2.8L. I said “Which one would you go for as I can only afford one lens but would like to take portraits and landscape pictures?” He said “I would go with the 20-70 f/2.8L as it is a superior lens. But you would expect me to say that as it is more expensive. “Not at all” I said. I have read many great reviews on the 20-70 f/2.8L”. But what are the pros and cons between the two. To paraphrase Martin, he basically said that the 20-70 f/2.8L has a larger aperture (he answered my question about why it was that the 20-70 f/2.8L over the 24-105 f/4L was more expensive, in doing so) and for this reason it is more expensive, heavier and light sensitive. I asked about the 20-70 f/2.8L being a bit short may be for landscape and wildfire shots. He explained that regardless of this the 20-70 f/2.8L lens was the one to go for, besides other reasons to my requirements. He explained that the 40D has a 1.6 Field of View Crop Factor (FOVCF): or smaller-than-35mm sensor so this effectively meant that it was really a 38mm at the low end. I replied “Does this mean that it would not be so good at close ups” but he said it would still do a great job and that the 70mm would effectively be 112mm long. I replied “So it would have that extra range and is one reason some professional photographers like the 1.6 ratio over the 1.0 FOVCF as it makes a 500mm lens 800mm”. He said that this was one reason. I said so the top-of-the-range Canon cameras with a FOVCF of 1.0 are therefore a true equivalent to a 35mm film camera. I did not understand this until Martin explained this was the case and about FOVCF. So the 20-70 f/2.8L in effect using the Canon 40D is a lens equivalent to 38-112 f/2.8.

I wanted a general purpose lens and I read that the 20-70 f/2.8L is just that. Moreover, it was reviewed as an amazing general-purpose lens. Only may be les so that the Canon 24-105 F4L. The 24-70 f/2.8 can be recommended for portraits and landscapes but obviously, you can have 2 to 3 other lenses in each group too. So that’s my reason for the 40D and the 24-70 f/28L lens combination. I only had so much I was prepared to spend but I wanted the new specs that the 40D offered and one general-purpose lens for the time being. I didn’t want to get in to dirtying the sensor due to lens changes. I wanted my experience in photography to grow with the familiarity of using one camera using one lens. If money or needs permits I would decide on another lens at a later date.

So Bob, the reason I don’t have the EF 70-200 f/4L IS USM is down to money and zero lens changes, as mentioned above. Plus I’m new to all this so I need time to become experienced and one decent camera and one decent general-purpose lens will aid me become more technically proficient and creative.

I’m more than happy to give my personal experience review once I have used it of course, plus other items

Defiant, the reason for the Nikon Camstrap is because it was recommended over the Canon E-1 Handstrap.
See link: http://tinyurl.com/ydflw6

Bart Michiels; it is true that not only is the 24-70 f/2.8L one of the most expensive and best lenses in its range, but without the standard lens that comes with the 40D it does go a significant way to purchasing a lens like the 20-70 f/2.8L. Moreover, if one is able to get the 40D and the 20-70 f/2.8L at the price I did (include a 3% discount by carrying out a money transfer instead of a credit card) and the rebate on the body and the lens then the price does get quite tempting close in going for the body only and dedicated lens route. Sure, I’m a beginner, but as I’ve mentioned above, and as has been mentioned on the forum, the 40D menu is intuitive over the 400D (may be this will change with the 450D) and I wanted to learn with a decent piece of kit from the get go. It does seem an expensive route but in the long term it is the cheapest in cost and quickest in gaining experience.

All the kit I listed in my original post has been thoroughly researched and cross-referenced with alternatives. I think I picked a good mix.

Here is the remainder of the equipment that is non-electronic that I’m getting from the US in April from http://www.bhphotovideo.com/, another excellent company to deal with.

I got my Nikon Astroluxe 10x70 from them and so you will see the Nikon tripod adapter included below.
http://tinyurl.com/2zb5xy

They were meant to be used for star gazing but within 3 days of my holiday we got the beginning of what turned in to the floods. Admittedly, it was fun on the far South coast of Wales near (Pendine Beach), watching the Tornado jets carrying out bombing dives, whacking out sonic booms across a blue sky as they went vertical and did a hard left bank ready for the next run – one after the other. Or hovering along the bay, sea out and in front of the river hill about 50 ft above sea level – that was cool to watch as they were really close with the bins.

Hope you don't mind, but I've edited your last post. I've removed the link to bhphotovideo for the Gitzo tripod and replaced it with a link direct to the Gitzo product page. Click the "Edit" button in that post to see how I did it if you aren't sure.

The reason is that, bearing in mind that we have a worldwide readership, it is typically more useful for members to have links direct to manufacturer's sites rather than country specific stores. It also has the added benefit that your posts look less like blatant advertising. It would be great if, when links are likely to be useful to the readership, you could try to link in that way yourself in the future, please.

Another request is that you don't include links which are so long that they destroy the page formatting. Not everyone uses hugely wide browser windows and, in the same way that including very wide images in posts does, a long URL results in the browser displaying a horizontal scroll bar which needs to be used to read the regular text in all posts in the thread. I noticed that you have used TinyURL to do this for some but not all of your longer links - that is certainly one way but I think the [url=...]Some Descriptive Text[/url] method that I used in the Gitzo edit I mentioned above works even better as it is easier on the eye (to see how click the "method" link I used just now!).

I noticed your post in the Portrait and people photography forum. It looks like you are really going to be making great use of your new kit. Let us know how you get on and, if you wish, please post some pictures when you can. Again, I hope you don't mind my "edit".

I'm not trying to lose any revenue from Cameralabs it is just that the kit I was recommending I just happened to include the links with. I didn't relies I had to check through affiliate links of cameralabs to see if there was an alternative buy.

I don’t see any Gitzo, Arca-Swiss or ThinkTank links from cameralabs, otherwise I would purchase through them, as long as their price is the best. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to buy an alternative just because there is not affiliation. Surely you are not suggesting that I cannot help someone purchase a ThinkTank Rotation 360 using another store just because cameralabs may only be affiliating alternative that may be inferior etc. I replied to your post regarding the ThinkTank Rotation 360 but it was too late. I realised you had got another backpack after posting.

Incidentally, not all the products can be purchased from an affiliate from Cameralabs, so I was trying to save the members some leg work.

I understand about TinyURL and will use it in future.

I don't understand the accusation that it looks like blatant advertising. I don't get anything from any one. I was saving others leg work, that’s all. Nevertheless, I will adhere to what you have requested.

I hope you are not referring to Martin’s Camera Shop though. That guy is tip-top and don’t all customers spending a lot of money deserve the best service etc.

Sorry. Like I said I was just trying to help.

Yeah I should have my new kit next week (Friday hopefully) but I could do with any advice from the link I posted about books to recommend on portraits and technical matters.