Rambling, rumbling, rumination

Bacon and Chocolate

I’m of mixed opinion on Allods Online, but I am mostly favorably inclined toward the game.

What they do well, I really like, namely, the lore, the visuals, the interesting class design and character progression, the good writing, the fun exploration, good combat, and perhaps most of all, the business model, at least what I’ve seen of it so far.

And yet, they have some notions about game design that I find rather… unsatisfying, namely, the open world PvP (I detest ganking), the same old DIKU trinity backbone (though it’s more EQ than WoW, what with group focus and crowd control classes) and the use of ships as endgame content reserved for groups. I think the ships are one significant key to making the game stand out in a saturated market… but I’ve belabored that point already.

In the balance, the game is still fun enough that I want to play it once it goes live (Open Beta starts tomorrow!), and I’ll probably find a good way to give them some money (here assuming the item shop isn’t a complete failure). It’s just… I can’t help but wish that the game hit all of the high points that I’m looking for. I wish that it would be all chocolate, no bacon.

And yet… maybe I won’t find a game that does that. That’s perhaps the biggest problem with a mass market game; it’s designed to appeal to a lot of people, and it’s almost inevitable that any given player will find something that they don’t like. The trick is to find ways to devour the yummy, yummy bits that you like, while avoiding the greasy, nasty bits.

In the balance, I’ll be playing Allods Online until I run out of things I find fun, or am overwhelmed by things I don’t like. I think it will last me a while, though, and for that, I’m grateful. I wish them well, to be certain, and I maintain that it’s a good game, well worth checking out. Just… don’t expect perfection. Look for the good parts, and savor them.

Yes, the prices on things will be a key point. As I noted over at Rog’s place, though, even in WoW, death has a cost, we just ignore it because we’ve already paid for it with the subscription. It’s philosophically the same thing; a real cost for dying… but the sales pitch is a HUGE factor.

I’m not a fan of the death penalty debuff, but then, those who like death penalties shouldn’t be fussing about it. To me, it’s just an impetus to avoid dying… but I’m a PvE casual carebear, so it doesn’t bother me much. If I die and get the debuff, I’ll either wait it out or just logoff and do something else. I have no lack of interesting things to do.

I can certainly imagine hardcore PvP nuts having some concerns if the perfume/debuff system gets onerous, however. Devs really can’t afford to alienate those players.

That said, the death debuff does have an interesting effect on PvP. Players who get knocked out are reduced in effectiveness, and subsequent KOs make them even less effective. It stinks to be that ineffective player, but at the same time, the greater “war” can actually come to a conclusion because one side is allowed to win, not fettered by a constantly respawning foe.

It’s different, and perhaps not ideal in some ways, but it’s not a halfbaked system built to screw over the players.

As for wanting to take player money, well, duh, it’s not a charity. The key is to keep the money siphon below the pain tolerance level. We’ll see if they can pull it off.

…and as Syp notes, Blizzard is pulling the same sort of brinkmanship with their “value added services” weaselspeak. Cryptic is also trying to see how far they can monetize players (and notably, players pushed back). How *anyone* can give sub games a pass on this while demonizing microtransaction games is baffling to me.

Cryptic are probably the worst in this regard, and Blizzard have a reputation that they probably could sell roasted children as VAS and get away with it.

I think this is an alarming trend, but also maybe the chance for MT games to become more popular. If this double dipping (sub + not always that “optional” premium content) continues, I hope that customers simply vote with their wallets. Though I must admit, at the moment I am playing STO… I am pretty sure Cryptic will add “respecs” for cash soon. I am sure not everyone use a char planner beforehand and, even if they did, is happy with the results.

Yes, cash for respec is annoying, especially if you can gimp your character. It’s perhaps the one big point of the Allods Item Shop that I’ll find myself disgruntled with. It’s possible to get the respec consumables in-game from rare drops, apparently, but that’s not a guarantee you’ll have one when you need it. They can also be auctioned, so I suspect we’ll see farming raiders putting them up for sale. Time will tell what their in-game cost will be.

The Auction House really is a significant part of the Item Shop; if items can be auctioned, they can become a medium of exchange, which tends to smooth out problems in the shop itself. Players can buy from other players, allowing for the economy at large to accept either real cash or in-game cash generated by playtime. That’s how Puzzle Pirates’ dual currency economy works, for the most part, and it really has wound up functioning nicely. The company gets real cash one way or another, but it may come from different players than the ones who actually wind up using the purchased items.

I share your concerns Tesh. I want so much to like this game for the long haul. Eh, the leveling might get a bit grind-heavy at points but nothing ever touched Aion’s grind so I think that part will be fine.

I think they’ve screwed the pooch over those group only ships, where people who helped get them won’t have any real ownership. They are owned by a single person. I smell drama ALL OVER this mechanic. And that’s besides how it knocks small, casual and/or solo players out of this aspect of the game and content. They may start bleeding at the top as a result.

There’s still hope that they can change it. NPC hirelings, smaller ships, non combat astral ships, etc. Lots of ways they can add variety and open the Astral up for more players. Here’s hoping.

(Crouching Tiger, Eaten Nugget? Third repost >.> I’m going to seem even spammier than I usually am…)

Jade Dynasty (which I no longer play), made me swear off cash-shop models. I would rather pay a sub. Or a GW model (but I think only Anet is brave enough to try and re-try a GW model).

NOT because JD’s cash shop model is poorly done. On the contrary, it is rapacious, ruthless, and very, very well done. 😉

But I found that what made me eventually stop playing wasn’t so much boredom, or dis-satisfaction, so much so as… Willpower, at least for a nugget, is a finite resource. In JD, I was spending a lot of willpower NOT buying stuff for cash. It got tiring exercising my will all the time. XD

And so, rather than having to exercise it all the time, I stopped playing instead. ^_^

At least subs let me play without checking myself all the time. No nugs, you cannot have that shiny mount, you do not need it. It’s a waste of money. No nugs, you cannot buy that shiny fashion now, you do not need it, it’s a waste of money. (And on, and on, and on.)

Let me be clear, for me, I think JD *in general* did manage to integrate the Pay2Win aspect of Free2Play subtly enough, and I think they did a great job. I didn’t stop because I would have to pay to ‘win’ my shinies. I stopped because I got tired of stopping myself from paying.

…and now, I’m wondering if all cash-shop models may face this problem after a while. Naturally if they integrate the cash-shop poorly, and piss off their users by the poor integration, this problem never comes up. This problem specifically comes up when the cash-shop *is* very well done.

Does Teshness have an opinion on this problem with regards to Allods, and then cash-shops in general?

It’s a tasty bit of batter for nugget to chew on, so I leave it here for you all too! *omnomnom*

Nugget, Item Shop games require willpower… but so do subscription games. In the former, you refrain from spending money, in the latter, you refrain from spending time to justify the money you already spent. Smaller cash purchases do tend to slip under the budgeting radar (firmly in impulse purchase territory), though… but the “sunk costs” of a subscription cause us to do funny things, since we feel invested in the game, and we usually wind up spending way too much time.

All in all, Item Shop games probably require more vigilance and willpower moment to moment, or at least, a careful eye on your wallet… but I don’t think the difference is all that big.

Saylah, I’ve wondered if perhaps it was wise of them to start with ships at the endgame. I’ve read that the ships were a relatively late addition to the game, and the content locusts will need *something* shiny to do at the level cap. (You know there’s going to be people racing to be first to forty and then complaining that “there’s nothing to doooo”.) If that’s the case, it makes some business sense to start the ship design at the endgame, since they only had so much time to develop them.

That said, yes, they have a LOT of drama potential, and smaller ships really would be a huge boon to the game. I can only hope that they make it a high priority to add to the game as soon as possible. The ships are the standout feature of the game in my eyes. Yes, it’s a pretty game, and pretty fun, the classes have some unique twists, and the world lore is cool. Even with the icing of the business model, that’s not quite enough to push it over the “WoW clone” epithet for many, I suspect. The ships, though, are something that WoW doesn’t have in any way shape or form. Puzzle Pirates has ships, Pirates of the Burning Seas has ships, but Allods is closer to WoW, WAR and EQ, and really needs to have something strong to compete.

I want to like the game, too, and so far I do. Here’s hoping they keep going in the right direction. (Including PvP and PvE servers, incidentally; open world PvP is dangerous in a market where carebears spend money, too.)

In runes of magic you can buy diamonds (the RMT currency) for game gold you can get from just playing, on the auction house. I also like to think I support the game by buying it with game gold, since if people like me didn’t give other players gold for the extra diamonds they bought for that purpose, they wouldn’t have bought those extra diamonds/given money to ROM.

“The trick is to find ways to devour the yummy, yummy bits that you like, while avoiding the greasy, nasty bits.”

Heh, isn’t this the trick mmorpgs play on you? The next yummy bit is just past a little nasty bit…oh, perhaps just find a way around that’s tolerable (because a way around is never going to be fun itself, it’s just going to be a way around). Then the nasty gap is a bit bigger next time, then a bit bigger…and before you know it your content to play unpleasant gameplay for hours and call it chocolate.

Callan, that’s how doubloons work in Puzzle Pirates, too; *someone* gave the company money for them, so it doesn’t matter much where they go after that.

…and yes, you’re right on the MMO design that trains you to accept greasy, nasty “chocolate”. I didn’t quite have that in mind when I wrote this, but you’re right, the metaphor extends nicely. Or would that be sadly…

Can you buy dubloons in puzzle pirates with regular play gold? Wow, I didn’t know that?

And your not explosively arguing a mmo couldn’t train something like that…? What’s happening…this isn’t the internet I know…the internet I know would explode rather than even slightly humour the notion a mmo design could train people into accepting grease…I’m so confused!

Technically, you’re buying doubloons *from other players* with in-game gold, yes. Three Rings sells doubloons to players for cash, and the players can either use them, give them away, or sell them via the blind currency exchange for in-game gold. Every single doubloon in the economy was once purchased for real cash; that’s what makes it work for the company. The flexibility of being able to trade them between players is what makes the in-game economy work.

I’ve argued before that such would be good for Wizard 101, and even argued for it in RoM *before* they wound up actually doing it. That’s one of the main points of using a dual currency microtransaction system in the first place, to my mind. Allods Online could similarly benefit from making their non-gold microtransaction currency exchangeable.

Heh, as to the rest, I’m hardly one to toe the MMO design line. If anything, I like prodding it or jumping over it.

Hmm, I think I must have a very different mentality when it comes to subs and ‘my money’s worth’.

For some reason, having a sub has never made me feel compelled to play when I didn’t feel like it.

JD’s RMT system seems to very closely parallel Puzzle Pirates’ in some ways (such as being able to trade the credits you buy from PWE to other players for in-game gold), so with regards to credits (or Jaden as JD calls them), it was never an issue of NOT having that feature.

…OOM. TBH before you pointed it out, it never even occurred to me that a subs would make someone feel impelled to play for their money’s worth. I always though of it as more of a… say… gym membership. That you buy to say you will go and make yourself fit, because surely you will? And then you don’t. But mebbe that’s just me again, heehee.

Sorry, I meant I didn’t know you could buy doubloons from other players in puzzle pirates (who themselves paid real money for them). I was a bit too abbreviated!

And I agree that dual currency exchange is good for a company. When DDO went free, I was tempted to try it…only to find that all the stuff you pay for, well, I couldn’t buy the currency for it from normal game gold. So I wrote off the idea. That would have been another person encouraging other players to buy more RMT currency for them. But they miss out.

EVE’s version is kind of wonky to my mind since it’s just about buying free subscription time, but on the other hand it’s not a free game. Different territory.