Can we all agree that anyone using the rhetoric "pot its a gateway drug" should be ignored. Dropped the canned blah-blah and show us some data. Since there isn't any, maybe they can use the data on beer being a gateway drug.

I think it can be a gateway drug, but not for the reasons usually given. Nowadays to buy weed you have to go to a drug dealer. More often than not he will sell other drugs apart from weed. To smoke it, some people end up spending more time with people who take coke and maybe even heroin, and eventually do so themselves. In other words, it can be a gateway drug because of who you have to frequent and associate with to buy it.

Make it legal and this doesn't happen anymore, as it is available in pharmacies and whatever.

As I noted in another thread, the real hurdle that still needs to be cleared is allowing medical marijuana in every state. Right now, just 28 states have it legal. We're talking cancer patients, people with AIDS, glaucoma, chronic pain, tumors, etc. It's almost exclusively "red" states that forbid this still for some stupid reason.

While only a couple years old, Colorado's laws have shown almost no negative issues with use. In the first year they raised about $90m in taxes, which included some $400k in fines, as the sellers, shops and suppliers have been watched pretty closely by regulators. By the numbers, the state budget is about $28b, so $90m is a small amount. But it about equaled the total of refunded tax dollars to residents. So, depending on who you talk to, the overall thought is the law has been fairly successful, and not problematic.

When I lived in Oregon I think I had a chance to vote in such an issue a couple times. Every time I voted against it, simply because I didn't think the bills were written strictly enough, it looks like Colorado, and now some other states (including OR), are making it work it seems. I can't recall if I got to vote on it for medicinal use. If I did, I am sure I voted yes.

Hard drugs are another story. But this brings up an interesting point again, about people using them do deal with other issues, eg. pain. People going from painkillers, to illegally obtained painkillers, to heroin.

Can we all agree that anyone using the rhetoric "pot its a gateway drug" should be ignored. Dropped the canned blah-blah and show us some data. Since there isn't any, maybe they can use the data on beer being a gateway drug.

I think it can be a gateway drug, but not for the reasons usually given. Nowadays to buy weed you have to go to a drug dealer. More often than not he will sell other drugs apart from weed. To smoke it, some people end up spending more time with people who take coke and maybe even heroin, and eventually do so themselves. In other words, it can be a gateway drug because of who you have to frequent and associate with to buy it.

Make it legal and this doesn't happen anymore, as it is available in pharmacies and whatever.

Anyway, I see blutto is legally permitted to post high now

I agree that there is potential that kids could be exposed to other drugs in that scenario, but when I was a teen there was always another kid whose dad (or other family) grew several plants. Oregon and Washington are so close to here that a lot of the pot is from dispensaries.

I'm not sure that I would use it, but I should have it as an medical option (read the story I typed above about my mom). From a recreational standpoint, I don't see it pushing Patron or beer out of the top spots for me, but I should be able to make that decision for myself. Is it any worse for people/families/society than booze and/or pharma?

Can we all agree that anyone using the rhetoric "pot its a gateway drug" should be ignored. Dropped the canned blah-blah and show us some data. Since there isn't any, maybe they can use the data on beer being a gateway drug.

I think it can be a gateway drug, but not for the reasons usually given. Nowadays to buy weed you have to go to a drug dealer. More often than not he will sell other drugs apart from weed. To smoke it, some people end up spending more time with people who take coke and maybe even heroin, and eventually do so themselves. In other words, it can be a gateway drug because of who you have to frequent and associate with to buy it.

Make it legal and this doesn't happen anymore, as it is available in pharmacies and whatever.

Anyway, I see blutto is legally permitted to post high now

I agree that there is potential that kids could be exposed to other drugs in that scenario, but when I was a teen there was always another kid whose dad (or other family) grew several plants. Oregon and Washington are so close to here that a lot of the pot is from dispensaries.

I'm not sure that I would use it, but I should have it as an medical option (read the story I typed above about my mom). From a recreational standpoint, I don't see it pushing Patron or beer out of the top spots for me, but I should be able to make that decision for myself. Is it any worse for people/families/society than booze and/or pharma?

Can we all agree that anyone using the rhetoric "pot its a gateway drug" should be ignored. Dropped the canned blah-blah and show us some data. Since there isn't any, maybe they can use the data on beer being a gateway drug.

I think it can be a gateway drug, but not for the reasons usually given. Nowadays to buy weed you have to go to a drug dealer. More often than not he will sell other drugs apart from weed. To smoke it, some people end up spending more time with people who take coke and maybe even heroin, and eventually do so themselves. In other words, it can be a gateway drug because of who you have to frequent and associate with to buy it.

Make it legal and this doesn't happen anymore, as it is available in pharmacies and whatever.

Anyway, I see blutto is legally permitted to post high now

A lot of this is down to the individual anyway. In high school a friend passed by some older guys' place in order to buy some pot on a way to a party. In the living room were two scene fixtures, a couple of 20 somethings turning green and encrusting themselves into the furniture on the nod from smack. I had an immediate visceral reaction and thought "no thanks". A few years later another friend (a year younger) from that group overdosed. No one could pull him back: not me, not his girlfriend. A few people from that time in Seattle/SF still get high on pot occassionaly, but most have careers and/or families with no time for that.

Interestingly, after I posted the above I rode home to find two cops on the sidewalk staring at my brownstone. The guy who lived on the floor above mine (a programmer/telecommuter) had gone "missing" from work. Five hours later and the civil servants have all left the building.As I and others thought possible, he apparently drank and smoked (cigarettes) himself to death. He was 38 but walked like an infirm 70 year old. I've never known marijuana to impact anyone that way. People will do what they do, criminalizing pot is a false issue

I'm against legalizing drugs because in countries that have legalized it drug use has gone up. In those countries people reporting the use of cannabis, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines, ecstasy, you name it, it's all gone up. At the same time, there has been an increase in drug-related deaths. In addition to that there has been increased costs associated with treatment and prevention programs, welfare recipients went up as did disability benefits and skyrocketing healthcare costs, these cost have put Portugal in a precarious financial predicament. But Portugal and Netherlands are different from the US, two different cultures, if the US legalized drugs we'll have havoc in the streets, people behind the wheel getting high killing cyclists (I added that in for effect but one of the effects will be cyclists among others like pedestrians and other motorists), mass hysteria, and suicides.

But the question is that if we continue to keep drugs illegal how do we stop the cost of law enforcement who spend a lot of time, and time equals money, to prevent or at least significantly reduce it? By taking the roadblocks out of the way that give all the rights to criminals so busted criminals stay busted and stay busted a lot longer. It seems like America law enforcement goes after the snake's body but leaves the head alone which all that does is still leaves a snake head that can still bite, which tells us two things about law enforcement, some are on the take, and the rest didn't do their due process, which is highly complicated and favors the criminal so they get off on technicalities, and those that do managed to get busted don't spend enough time in prison and some continue their operations from behind bars. I also think to reduce the cost of law enforcement against drugs is not to go after and arrest the user but concentrate on the sellers.

The problem is that what's hiding behind the curtain is once you legalize such things you open a black box that contains other things that are illegal that people will scream that they want legalized which will lead to a debased society.

froze wrote:I'm against legalizing drugs because in countries that have legalized it drug use has gone up. In those countries people reporting the use of cannabis, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines, ecstasy, you name it, it's all gone up. At the same time, there has been an increase in drug-related deaths. In addition to that there has been increased costs associated with treatment and prevention programs, welfare recipients went up as did disability benefits and skyrocketing healthcare costs, these cost have put Portugal in a precarious financial predicament. But Portugal and Netherlands are different from the US, two different cultures, if the US legalized drugs we'll have havoc in the streets, people behind the wheel getting high killing cyclists (I added that in for effect but one of the effects will be cyclists among others like pedestrians and other motorists), mass hysteria, and suicides.

But the question is that if we continue to keep drugs illegal how do we stop the cost of law enforcement who spend a lot of time, and time equals money, to prevent or at least significantly reduce it? By taking the roadblocks out of the way that give all the rights to criminals so busted criminals stay busted and stay busted a lot longer. It seems like America law enforcement goes after the snake's body but leaves the head alone which all that does is still leaves a snake head that can still bite, which tells us two things about law enforcement, some are on the take, and the rest didn't do their due process, which is highly complicated and favors the criminal so they get off on technicalities, and those that do managed to get busted don't spend enough time in prison and some continue their operations from behind bars. I also think to reduce the cost of law enforcement against drugs is not to go after and arrest the user but concentrate on the sellers.

The problem is that what's hiding behind the curtain is once you legalize such things you open a black box that contains other things that are illegal that people will scream that they want legalized which will lead to a debased society.

don't forget, it's just an opinion.

I'm loaded with those!

The reason that your opinion has some validity is that alcohol is a legal drug and it causes a lot of problems in society. The question though, does it cause more problems when its legal or illegal? If its legal and we tax it, does that help offset the financial costs? In the USA pharma addiction is a growing problem of its own, but is also contributing to other substance abuse problems.

The new USA budget includes a $45 Billion for opioid addiction treatment! My first thought is why aren't the pharmaceutical companies who made Billions while creating this mess paying?! There is a lot of dejavu here! How did the pharma companies get off of the hook?

Was searching for thread on joint pain/treatment and found this thread. I have no problem with medical Mary Jane, but I wanted to post on a possible option that some NFL players are starting to use that, unlike MJ, helps the body heal itself.

Another option: I have used Costco's Kirkland brand dried seaweed for spinal pain successfully. Dose: 3-5 flakes a day. But you have to get over the foul taste. Once I did I actually tolerate the flavor, stopping short of saying I like it. Weird? Exactly what I said when a coworker told me his amazing story, which he confirmed with before and after MRIs of his spine, which showed the treatment significantly increased the height of spinal disks. Apparently after a certain age the body's ability to retain spinal fluid is reduced due to lack of certain nutrients in normal diet. The seaweed has that nutrient. For me, my upper neck pain was caused by several injuries over the years that cycling aggravated. A month of seaweed and the pain was gone. Best cheap cure I ever had.

on3m@n@rmy wrote:Was searching for thread on joint pain/treatment and found this thread. I have no problem with medical Mary Jane, but I wanted to post on a possible option that some NFL players are starting to use that, unlike MJ, helps the body heal itself.

Another option: I have used Costco's Kirkland brand dried seaweed for spinal pain successfully. Dose: 3-5 flakes a day. But you have to get over the foul taste. Once I did I actually tolerate the flavor, stopping short of saying I like it. Weird? Exactly what I said when a coworker told me his amazing story, which he confirmed with before and after MRIs of his spine, which showed the treatment significantly increased the height of spinal disks. Apparently after a certain age the body's ability to retain spinal fluid is reduced due to lack of certain nutrients in normal diet. The seaweed has that nutrient. For me, my upper neck pain was caused by several injuries over the years that cycling aggravated. A month of seaweed and the pain was gone. Best cheap cure I ever had.

What is the nutrient in seaweed that helps the body retain spinal fluid?

on3m@n@rmy wrote:Was searching for thread on joint pain/treatment and found this thread. I have no problem with medical Mary Jane, but I wanted to post on a possible option that some NFL players are starting to use that, unlike MJ, helps the body heal itself.

Another option: I have used Costco's Kirkland brand dried seaweed for spinal pain successfully. Dose: 3-5 flakes a day. But you have to get over the foul taste. Once I did I actually tolerate the flavor, stopping short of saying I like it. Weird? Exactly what I said when a coworker told me his amazing story, which he confirmed with before and after MRIs of his spine, which showed the treatment significantly increased the height of spinal disks. Apparently after a certain age the body's ability to retain spinal fluid is reduced due to lack of certain nutrients in normal diet. The seaweed has that nutrient. For me, my upper neck pain was caused by several injuries over the years that cycling aggravated. A month of seaweed and the pain was gone. Best cheap cure I ever had.

What is the nutrient in seaweed that helps the body retain spinal fluid?

Honestly do not know. Even quackier-sounding (and I'm a conservative when it comes to staying away from things that sound like quackery), my coworker source has a local Buddhist "trainer" who he gets a lot of information from. He even spent 2 weeks vacation living with Buddhist monks in China. But my pain was so severe I could only try to sleep on my back and could not raise my left arm above mt head, so I had nothing to lose by introducing seaweed into my diet. Now am just on a low maintenance level of under 3 to 4 flakes/week, as too much to the diet is reported as potentially unhealthy. Like anything.

on3m@n@rmy wrote:Was searching for thread on joint pain/treatment and found this thread. I have no problem with medical Mary Jane, but I wanted to post on a possible option that some NFL players are starting to use that, unlike MJ, helps the body heal itself.

Another option: I have used Costco's Kirkland brand dried seaweed for spinal pain successfully. Dose: 3-5 flakes a day. But you have to get over the foul taste. Once I did I actually tolerate the flavor, stopping short of saying I like it. Weird? Exactly what I said when a coworker told me his amazing story, which he confirmed with before and after MRIs of his spine, which showed the treatment significantly increased the height of spinal disks. Apparently after a certain age the body's ability to retain spinal fluid is reduced due to lack of certain nutrients in normal diet. The seaweed has that nutrient. For me, my upper neck pain was caused by several injuries over the years that cycling aggravated. A month of seaweed and the pain was gone. Best cheap cure I ever had.

What is the nutrient in seaweed that helps the body retain spinal fluid?

Honestly do not know. Even quackier-sounding (and I'm a conservative when it comes to staying away from things that sound like quackery), my coworker source has a local Buddhist "trainer" who he gets a lot of information from. He even spent 2 weeks vacation living with Buddhist monks in China. But my pain was so severe I could only try to sleep on my back and could not raise my left arm above mt head, so I had nothing to lose by introducing seaweed into my diet. Now am just on a low maintenance level of under 3 to 4 flakes/week, as too much to the diet is reported as potentially unhealthy. Like anything.

Something else that I was thinking about: the seaweed is a naturally occurring, just like hemp/cannabis. Its legal to take all sorts of harmful things that aren't natural, and maybe seaweed will turn out to cause brain warts, but mj is i illegal?

on3m@n@rmy wrote:Was searching for thread on joint pain/treatment and found this thread. I have no problem with medical Mary Jane, but I wanted to post on a possible option that some NFL players are starting to use that, unlike MJ, helps the body heal itself.

Another option: I have used Costco's Kirkland brand dried seaweed for spinal pain successfully. Dose: 3-5 flakes a day. But you have to get over the foul taste. Once I did I actually tolerate the flavor, stopping short of saying I like it. Weird? Exactly what I said when a coworker told me his amazing story, which he confirmed with before and after MRIs of his spine, which showed the treatment significantly increased the height of spinal disks. Apparently after a certain age the body's ability to retain spinal fluid is reduced due to lack of certain nutrients in normal diet. The seaweed has that nutrient. For me, my upper neck pain was caused by several injuries over the years that cycling aggravated. A month of seaweed and the pain was gone. Best cheap cure I ever had.

What is the nutrient in seaweed that helps the body retain spinal fluid?

Honestly do not know. Even quackier-sounding (and I'm a conservative when it comes to staying away from things that sound like quackery), my coworker source has a local Buddhist "trainer" who he gets a lot of information from. He even spent 2 weeks vacation living with Buddhist monks in China. But my pain was so severe I could only try to sleep on my back and could not raise my left arm above mt head, so I had nothing to lose by introducing seaweed into my diet. Now am just on a low maintenance level of under 3 to 4 flakes/week, as too much to the diet is reported as potentially unhealthy. Like anything.

Something else that I was thinking about: the seaweed is a naturally occurring, just like hemp/cannabis. Its legal to take all sorts of harmful things that aren't natural, and maybe seaweed will turn out to cause brain warts, but mj is i illegal?

Not illegal in Washington State or Colorado. After reading the blog in link below, seaweed may actually cure warts. Some actually claimed it cured herpes & genital warts! Eeek. TMI.

First of all, cannabis isn't a "drug." Hold some in Your hand and it looks just a plant.I'm not doing drugs in the morning with those 2 double espresso's & I'm not doing drugs when I enjoy 2 glasses of Bourgogne in the evening either.I get it,,, however, REEFER MADNESS (all of it) is responsible for influencing citizens to believe that the plant cannabis is first and foremost a drug.

Plant, as described on literally the very 1st page of the Bible.

We as civilized people should not be caging responsible adults who use what God indicates He created and said is good on that 1st page.

We have been requested to love one another and in so doing, We are able to receive the "spirit of truth" (which is what We are here for! BTW) see John 14-16 & 1 John. YOU CAN NOT LOVE SOMEONE AND CAGE THEM FOR USING WHAT GOD SAID IS GOOD, at the same time.

Cannabis prohibition, extermination and discrimination is the devil law. It literally separates people from Christ God Our Father.

It's the original living sin.

-0-

If the devil were to create a blanket separation of the most people from receiving the "spirit of truth", where would he start? He'll not snare everyone but stumble most and get to other people later... but the most to start with? Where?

Most people acknowledge We have a lot of problems today; war and murder comes to mind... If You wish to fix those problems and do so Biblically, where would You start? Not page 241, not the middle of the New or Old Testament. No, You go to PAGE 1 and start there. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION. Many regular church goers have been duped by failed clergy (see Sin of the Priests, Malachi 6 NASB /last book of the Old) into supporting and enabling cannabis prohibition & according to the Christ, they are then unable to receive that "spirit of truth."

THOSE PEOPLE ARE THEN STUMBLING starting on the 1st page of the Bible.

By time they get to page 3 where the teaching of do not kill, begin, they are already lost!

It's why many regular church goers support war. (What the heck is a pro-war Christian anyway?)

It is one of the reasons We have war and murder.

-IT'S ONE OF THE MANY REASONS GOVERNMENT PROHIBITS THE PEACEFUL PLANT. WITH IT, PEOPLE WILL NOT SUPPORT THEIR WARS.

& in the U.S.A., I have not lived a day without My nation at war.

Don't let anything get in between You and the "spirit of truth." It's the ONE THING YOU CAN TAKE WITH YOU.

As Alpe points out he didn't vote for the law(s) because they were written kind of flimsy.. I kind of agree.What we must do as a state of emergency..esp in California..we have to have banking laws that dovetail with legal drugs sales, cultivation and transportation. I ride my bike past dozens of pot sales dispensaries.. they are stuffed w cash and are surely on the robbery radar of criminals at every level..we can't have business locations that are publicly proclaimed to be business without banking.. seeing long lines of pot buyers and never seeing an armored car is a public safety risk not worth taking..We have to send young kids on vacation while we sort out how Jeff Sessions talks... when he describes pot as an equal threat to the public as opioids, heroin and meth young curious minds, young educated minds know he is full of ****..They are living in a completely separate reality from Sessions scary pot overdose scenario..We need clear laws about operation of motor vehicles while under the influence of weed or THC, cannabis based products. If the cops don't have a testing system in place.. let's wait.. I ride in E.County San Diego 3-5 days a week.. the number of cars I *personally* observe texting and talking on phone is way scary.. depending on time of day many cars have operators vaping or smoking weed.. nowhere near close to trouble texting but I see it as a problem..