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The coinflip mechanic makes the game more balanced (debatable) according to one of the dev notes where they tried removing the coinflip RNG and I'm guessing after seeing that not everyone can win on offense and people can actually set up smart defenses (which they detest?)

i think RNG deciding wich toon with a 100% TM goes first is preferable over the alternatives.
The alternatives i've seen thusfar are:

Who ever had the most TM prior to multiple toons reaching 100% during the next turn goes first

Who ever has most TM (above 100%) goes first

Fastest toon goes first

Each one of those alternatives has downsides. I believe the first one is the most popular, but is it desirable? Lets take vader under palp vs Rex lead/biggs/sion+nilly for example, if any of those reach 100% TM during vader's AoE, or culling blade eliminating a toon, they would 100% of the time go before vader gets his 2nd turn.

It should be whoever has the most tm above 100% goes first. This is just the fair, logical solution. It would also allow for much more strategy and finesse in tm manipulation.

But it’s impossible (or extremely hard) to do now because the game has been balanced around a different system and changing it would most likely create a number of abuses and loopholes everywhere (and break characters kits in a good or a bad way).
To be honest i don’t think it can be changed even though I think the coin flip is by very far the worst solution possible.

i think RNG deciding wich toon with a 100% TM goes first is preferable over the alternatives.
The alternatives i've seen thusfar are:

Who ever had the most TM prior to multiple toons reaching 100% during the next turn goes first

Who ever has most TM (above 100%) goes first

Fastest toon goes first

Each one of those alternatives has downsides. I believe the first one is the most popular, but is it desirable? Lets take vader under palp vs Rex lead/biggs/sion+nilly for example, if any of those reach 100% TM during vader's AoE, or culling blade eliminating a toon, they would 100% of the time go before vader gets his 2nd turn.

I think any solution needs to have a caveat for situations like this. Any toon that generates 100% TM on their turn should go before anyone else that is in a situation to move (whatever that may be). That's the whole point of having moved that do that, whether one death blow, or hitting enough debuffs or any other reason.

Problem of this system would be unbeatable teams. On rare occasion you can counter at the moment super speed teams with a coinflip via sion/nihilus and other combos. They want a fluid arena and not 2 - 3 super whales sitting in front and just getting their payout for 1 - 2 fights per day. Lets not forget they want a crystal refresh to gain crystals...bad defensive is their win. Its also in your interest if you do not have superb mods to have this type of coinflip mechanic.

i think RNG deciding wich toon with a 100% TM goes first is preferable over the alternatives.
The alternatives i've seen thusfar are:

Who ever had the most TM prior to multiple toons reaching 100% during the next turn goes first

Who ever has most TM (above 100%) goes first

Fastest toon goes first

Each one of those alternatives has downsides. I believe the first one is the most popular, but is it desirable? Lets take vader under palp vs Rex lead/biggs/sion+nilly for example, if any of those reach 100% TM during vader's AoE, or culling blade eliminating a toon, they would 100% of the time go before vader gets his 2nd turn.

I think any solution needs to have a caveat for situations like this. Any toon that generates 100% TM on their turn should go before anyone else that is in a situation to move (whatever that may be). That's the whole point of having moved that do that, whether one death blow, or hitting enough debuffs or any other reason.

fair enough, next issue:
Vader gets to go twice in a row, granting his entire team 100% TM by dispelling the negative status effects with his culling blade. Unfortunately non of them get to go next because the entire enemy team was already at 100% TM from vader's opening AoE critting vs opposing rex lead.
So its either awesome 100% of the time if you're using rex, or horrible 100% of the time if you're using vader. I personally prefer RNG and just addapt so i don't have to rely on RNG on offence. On defence i prefer as much RNG as possible because that's usually the only way to win

I agree that it would likely cause balancing issues, but if it were changed I would like:
- If two characters reach or exceed 100% turn meter in the same turn, the one who exceeded it by more goes first.
- If one character reaches or exceeds 100% tm before a second character does, the one that reached 100% first goes before the second.

Problem of this system would be unbeatable teams. On rare occasion you can counter at the moment super speed teams with a coinflip via sion/nihilus and other combos. They want a fluid arena and not 2 - 3 super whales sitting in front and just getting their payout for 1 - 2 fights per day. Lets not forget they want a crystal refresh to gain crystals...bad defensive is their win. Its also in your interest if you do not have superb mods to have this type of coinflip mechanic.

exactly, people dislike coinflips because they think it causes them to lose, but it may very well actually be the reason they're able to win.

I agree that it would likely cause balancing issues, but if it were changed I would like:
- If one character reaches or exceeds 100% tm before a second character does, the one that reached 100% first goes before the second.

Which would make Death Troopers zeta less worthwhile. The whole point of him gaining tm when Krennic gets hit is to go next.

The way tm works right now taking a turn is like a 1 person sized door you have to walk through. You're saying you want them to get in line when they get to the door. I disagree. I want my guys to have a chance to knock their guys out of the way and barge through the door.

RNG can be frustrating, but it is also what makes it interesting. Otherwise things become predictable and quantifiable, and able to be calculated and played by rote. People could make macros to fight their arena matches for them at that point.

No, the coin flip is a MUCH better idea than any other. It's pretty much the only thing that keeps arena somewhat balanced.

i think RNG deciding wich toon with a 100% TM goes first is preferable over the alternatives.
The alternatives i've seen thusfar are:

Who ever had the most TM prior to multiple toons reaching 100% during the next turn goes first

Who ever has most TM (above 100%) goes first

Fastest toon goes first

Each one of those alternatives has downsides. I believe the first one is the most popular, but is it desirable? Lets take vader under palp vs Rex lead/biggs/sion+nilly for example, if any of those reach 100% TM during vader's AoE, or culling blade eliminating a toon, they would 100% of the time go before vader gets his 2nd turn.

I think any solution needs to have a caveat for situations like this. Any toon that generates 100% TM on their turn should go before anyone else that is in a situation to move (whatever that may be). That's the whole point of having moved that do that, whether one death blow, or hitting enough debuffs or any other reason.

fair enough, next issue:
Vader gets to go twice in a row, granting his entire team 100% TM by dispelling the negative status effects with his culling blade. Unfortunately non of them get to go next because the entire enemy team was already at 100% TM from vader's opening AoE critting vs opposing rex lead.
So its either awesome 100% of the time if you're using rex, or horrible 100% of the time if you're using vader. I personally prefer RNG and just addapt so i don't have to rely on RNG on offence. On defence i prefer as much RNG as possible because that's usually the only way to win

I agree, RNG is not the enemy.

I think as this thread gets populated we will see 100 new caveats that will show how complex this would need to be if it wasnt RNG based, and why it's not as simple as just turn meter.

Random has flaws, but basing it on speed stats or most TM over 100%, or who got their TM full first would generate problems, including completely making abilities like thrawns, jyn, etc a total waste if time.

In fact, out of all the TM gain situations thats the one that frustrates me the most. you TM swap from thrawn to specifically use a situationally useful ability only for enemy toons to move and stun/TM remove/kill the toon you just swapped TM to actually use. You use culling blade and kill, only for vader to not move again. Etc.

I'm fine with it being random where its natural TM gain or passive ability gains. But when I actively use a characters ability to max someone elses turn meter, that person should absolutely go first. They could easily do this and simply modify those types of abilities to make it clear that they gain full TM and move immediately.

Random has flaws, but basing it on speed stats or most TM over 100%, or who got their TM full first would generate problems, including completely making abilities like thrawns, jyn, etc a total waste if time.

In fact, out of all the TM gain situations thats the one that frustrates me the most. you TM swap from thrawn to specifically use a situationally useful ability only for enemy toons to move and stun/TM remove/kill the toon you just swapped TM to actually use. You use culling blade and kill, only for vader to not move again. Etc.

I'm fine with it being random where its natural TM gain or passive ability gains. But when I actively use a characters ability to max someone elses turn meter, that person should absolutely go first. They could easily do this and simply modify those types of abilities to make it clear that they gain full TM and move immediately.

As stated above this leads us back to the "immovable object vs unstoppable force" we are seeing now with revives. Sith vs rex, the opening salvo besides the first move is all "unnatural" TM. They would never be able to word it so it can be understood without a 10 page dissertation. I also feel if they did. It would be a hard and fast choice that would just lead to one taking over and no chance for the other to be viable. IMO.

As I said I do like the idea of that toon getting the turn based on it's own mechanics, but that doesnt help the thrawn situation. Thrawn definitely deserve his own caveat because that move should have the selected target move next, hand down.

Random is flawed. First toon in a sequence to 100% should go. If there's a tie it should go to the faster toon. The only exception should be for those who get another turn after a specific event happens.

Random is flawed. First toon in a sequence to 100% should go. If there's a tie it should go to the faster toon. The only exception should be for those who get another turn after a specific event happens.

The randomness negates strategy. Completely.

It doesn't, you can work your way around the randomness, that is what i'd call strategy.

Random is flawed. First toon in a sequence to 100% should go. If there's a tie it should go to the faster toon. The only exception should be for those who get another turn after a specific event happens.

The randomness negates strategy. Completely.

That's the issue, there is no mechanic that gives anyone "another turn", its gives them 100 TM. So you get a tie.

Tie goes to fastest toon, so the one guy on each shard who has the best mods will always win out in that situation.

Funny side note: mods are RNG dependent, so the out come is still RNG dependent, just once removed.

Random is flawed. First toon in a sequence to 100% should go. If there's a tie it should go to the faster toon. The only exception should be for those who get another turn after a specific event happens.

The randomness negates strategy. Completely.

This option negates some strategy as well, if anything you are making the speed secondaries even more of an issue.

They made speed secondary an issue when they released them uncapped and untested.

Any toon who gets 100% after a specific thing happens goes next. Thrawn TM swapping should be goes next.

If the TM wasn't random you could strategic align your squad. You could set up your squad x before y before z. As it is you still can but it's random so that negates the strategic significance of modding. I mentioned this needed to be fixed for Zaul... Funny how it's now even more relevant... Especially after they mentioned it and deleted it. Quickly. They keep making the same mistakes... Whether with power creep, not testing things, or not listening.

Eh. I like it. You either have 100% turn meter or you don't. Randomizing between tied characters is just plain fair since all characters at 100% have an equal chance. Having high speed is already enough of a benefit, why compound it by giving it even more power?

Randomizing who goes prevents a situation where fast teams just get to go forever, which is only fun if it's your fast team. And odds are you're going to keep going forever anyway, since there just aren't very many teams out there that gain TM on your actions.

Like Leef said--randomness isn't necessarily why you're losing. A whole lot of folks will blame any loss on randomness because it's easier than admitting they just aren't good enough or they used a bad team or their strategy was flawed.

That's the issue, there is no mechanic that gives anyone "another turn", its gives them 100 TM. So you get a tie.

Wicket's Unique is another turn, interestingly enough. I first noticed it doing the AT-ST thing, Teebo would give all ewoks 100% tm, then when Wicket went he'd go again. But that's the exception that proves the rule, and other than him you're right.

Wicket's Unique is another turn, interestingly enough. I first noticed it doing the AT-ST thing, Teebo would give all ewoks 100% tm, then when Wicket went he'd go again. But that's the exception that proves the rule, and other than him you're right.

From the game mechanics of swgoh.gg, it looks like it's coded to be: "Recover 999900% Turn Meter". Which would indeed lead to the question of should Wicket go next because he's gone way over 100%, or should a toon that is slightly faster go next. [I don't really care which and probably have a slight preference for random]

From the game mechanics of swgoh.gg, it looks like it's coded to be: "Recover 999900% Turn Meter". Which would indeed lead to the question of should Wicket go next because he's gone way over 100%, or should a toon that is slightly faster go next. [I don't really care which and probably have a slight preference for random]

Interesting! Maybe it's just been luck on my part (or, more likely, confirmation bias in my memory) that he's always gone immediately after in that instance. I'll pay closer attention next time the AT-ST comes around now.

It's a flawed, lazy, and plain bad mechanic. Any excuse to not change it shows laziness on their part because THEY mentioned it so they knew it was flawed.

Yeah, but all of the proposed solutions are flawed, too. Basing it off flat speed is just as bad.

There are often a lot of times where no solution is perfect, so you pick the one that works the best for the game as a whole. I know you don't like the random selection, but take a look around here and you'll see people who do. If they change it to simply using speed as a tiebreaker or using whoever has the most turn meter above 100%, all you're doing is inverting things so that people who don't like this will like that, and people who do like this won't like that.

Well - after the "bug" where enemies in Arena were doing like 300% extra damage (amazing how that was fixed within a day....) we know CG IS altering numbers on the defending teams to give defense a chance.
You can like that or not, but what you are going up against isn't a simple random version of what it should be, power, dodge, TM, likely the coin flips, are going to the side of defense.
I don't even know if I'd rather have that or a better AI, I mean, I guess a better AI, but still. The point of all this is that the 3 on 3 as exacerbated CG's defense teams manipulations.
My guess is those numbers are being tweaked behind the scenes as we speak - until people stop complaining.

It's a flawed, lazy, and plain bad mechanic. Any excuse to not change it shows laziness on their part because THEY mentioned it so they knew it was flawed.

You are the type of person that will be the first to complain if they removed the coinflip mechanic and start noticing that you are losing more often than before

Nope. And nope. I've played strategy games all my life. I would most definitely lose less.

If I lose due to under geared, under starred, bad strategy, miscounting skill timers, using the wrong skill at the wrong moment, or fighting an opponent I shouldn't that's on me. Live and learn. However, losing because of a coin flip, is flawed. And frustrating. Anyone who actually tries and plans out their squads turn order and plans according to that order and contingencies based off said order knows this as obvious. Yes you can't plan for everything. But when you can be in complete control and your whole squad is at full TM and then 1 opposing character gets full TM and gets a turn cause of a coin flip and that cascades down from there to a loss... is ridiculous. There's a small sect who like random and chaos... That's their chance to win. I don't prefer to rely on chance or luck. It's a lazy and not a good functional way of conducting or producing a winning stratagem.

It's a flawed, lazy, and plain bad mechanic. Any excuse to not change it shows laziness on their part because THEY mentioned it so they knew it was flawed.

You are the type of person that will be the first to complain if they removed the coinflip mechanic and start noticing that you are losing more often than before

Nope. And nope. I've played strategy games all my life. I would most definitely lose less.

If I lose due to under geared, under starred, bad strategy, miscounting skill timers, using the wrong skill at the wrong moment, or fighting an opponent I shouldn't that's on me. Live and learn. However, losing because of a coin flip, is flawed. And frustrating. Anyone who actually tries and plans out their squads turn order and plans according to that order and contingencies based off said order knows this as obvious. Yes you can't plan for everything. But when you can be in complete control and your whole squad is at full TM and then 1 opposing character gets full TM and gets a turn cause of a coin flip and that cascades down from there to a loss... is ridiculous. There's a small sect who like random and chaos... That's their chance to win. I don't prefer to rely on chance or luck. It's a lazy and not a good functional way of conducting or producing a winning stratagem.

You make it seem like there's no possibility to set up your team in such a way that there's very little left to chance. I don't like coin flips either that's why i avoid them as much as possible. You're not in complete controll when the enemy team can potentially screw up your turn order.