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Topic: JT's WFO pies (Read 43363 times)

The earliest reference that I could find on the forum that mentions the "elite" NY style, and draws a distinction between that style and the NY "street" style, goes back to April, 2004, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,361.msg2842.html#msg2842. Two of the members who discussed this topic, Arthur and Canadave, were both long-time veterans of the NY pizza scene.

I have always been intrigued by the evolution of NY pizza to the point where I found myself researching the invention of the planetary mixer (Hobart), deck ovens and refrigeration, and when they were commercialized on a fairly wide scale, and also the evolution of flours, from the early all-purpose flours, bread flours, and finally high-gluten flours. I doubt that that there are many pizza operators today in the metro NYC area who are making their doughs by hand but I would imagine that there are many who are still using same day doughs made with all-purpose flours (scott123 may be able to comment on this). It was also interesting to read about when sugar and oil were added to the NY doughs, after deck ovens were commercialized for baking pizzas.

Wow, great info guys! I too only picked up the term elite from this forum and don't care much for it either. Mainly because it gives a sense of an elitist mentality, which I don't like. I will refrain from using the term for future references.

Also, I failed to mention that the above pies were 75% HG and 25% 00. For my next bake, I'll be comparing a 100% HG pie versus my hybrid blend of 75% 00 and 25% HG. I have made good pies with both formulas and interested to see them side by side.

Great pie Chau! Interesting discussion on heat sources. I have been enamored by the idea of coal pizza, but my dream was shattered when I walked into an anthracite coal oven pizza joint in Northeastern PA. I observed the oven, and had to search for the heat source in the back left. There were a few coals burning, and they gave off no aroma. I remember one of the advantages of anthracite was that it was clean burning - little smell, right? I asked the owner the deck temp - he measured with his IR gun, and reported 495. My pie was an 8 minute bake, and the crust was dead in the water. Flat, but crispy. Topping heavy and tasty, crust a dog. As I walked out weeping, I thought they used coal in NY for one reason, clean and cheap heat. My dream of a coal oven at home evaporated. I am using my steel plate, with great NY pies. I think a wood fire oven is the next step because the wood does burn dirty. That smoke and heat does help the final product. A lot of work, but adds magic. And your pies are a wonder! Mark

It's not that coal as a fuel source cannot make a great pizza, it's that the particular pizzeria you visited doesn't know what they are doing.

Remember that pizza doesn't particularly care how the heat is being created. I've been to a fair share of wood fired pizzerias which were cranking out 8-9min pizzas with a tiny ember pile with no flames at all.

Coal in fact can burn very, very hot and make a great pizza.....but it all comes down to the people involved in the process. --K

Thanks Mark. I would say your experience was lackluster because the dough was off. You would be surprise by what you can make even with a very tiny pile of coals. Look at the pie in reply #117. That is just one example of pies I have done with a very tiny cresent shaped pile of coals. Not more than 2" wide at the thickest part of the pile and stretched out in a semi circle. The dough was great for that pie so it turned out great even at a ~6 minute bake.

Awesome video. I tried to be as cool as you...made a PERFECT pie and set up my camera, turned my back to position the camera one last time, and under the broiler the pizza caught fire!! I just HAD to be a show off right Amazing looking NY pie my man!!

Awesome video. I tried to be as cool as you...made a PERFECT pie and set up my camera, turned my back to position the camera one last time, and under the broiler the pizza caught fire!! I just HAD to be a show off right Amazing looking NY pie my man!!

Do you ever look up at the pizza when you hold it near the top of the oven to finish it? Often, little flames jump off the top of the pie. I guess it is steam jets on the surface spitting up little bits of oil. It's kind of cool looking especially when the fire from the wood is not too bright.

Thanks Peter and Norma. Peter, I do enjoy my day job and make a good living. I can't imagine trading that out for the risk of a new pizzeria. Thank goodness I can enjoy making pizza while getting the bills paid. Perhaps someday I can try my hand at a mobile pizza business on the weekends.

Gene, good thing I don't need a degree and certification to practice making pizza.