Wow, I didn't know the Hotel Lancaster had been doing so badly. Glad to hear the "second chance" is getting another "second chance."

I do remember the Brunswick from many years ago. I was there as a vendor setting up for a keyboard show. We were moving in our equipment and merchandise via the freight elevator. The staff informed us that upon returning to the ground floor we would have to jump up and down to get the elevator car to settle the last one or two feet to the bottom. We all laughed but they were not kidding. We actually had to jump up and down to complete the descent. Was happy to hear when the renovations and later change of ownership were taking place.

Hmm. So the new Historicon location needs much the same work as the old location, only no one mentioned this earlier?

And I'm sure Historicon 2019 attendees on TMP will extend to the Hotel Lancaster the same patience and courtesy during on-going renovations (and the inevitable inconveniences associated with them) which they have extended to the Host during the last two conventions.

Ed, you are correct. The Marriott is the location. Considering we usually need a lot more rooms than are ever onsite, this will help. This hotel is very close to the Marriott. I was just posting information about this nearby hotel's planned upgrade and renovation. Having more quality rooms within walking distance will not hurt future shows there.

And Ed, you're quite right, of course. I just got as far as "help for Historicon" and assumed it was the place, because why else would I care? Most of these sites are only names to me, if that.

Actually, having attended the first years of Cold Wars at TrimoniumHistoricon at Valley ForgeHistoricon at the FCC andFall In at Gettysburg

I'm giving serious thought to letting someone else set off the land mines this time. A thousand miles is a long round trip to find out whether or not there's a good way to access to flea market from the parking lot.

The Historicon convention director was on-site at the Lancaster Convention Center last weekend with some of his staff. We are aware of the new developments at the Hotel Lancaster and I am currently working with them on a possible discounted room block. This would be in addition to our current room block at the attached Marriott Hotel. There will be a presentation on the new venue at the Friday night membership meeting at Historicon. In addition, there are three scheduled site visits during this Historicon for anyone interested in seeing the new location first hand. These site visits are listed in the PEL. Whether you like the new venue or not, we are trying to provide as much information as possible so you can decide whether you would like to come. Hope this helps.

This is good news for me. I wasn't planning to try to run anything at HCon 19, and had resolved to stay at the HL to let the GMs and vendors have first shot at the on-site rooms. Looks like things at the HL will be much improved.

Yes sorry for any confusion. The convention hotel (Marriott) is attached to the convention center. They are finishing a new tower addition to the hotel that I think adds about 100 rooms (will be done this year I believe). That will bring more rooms.

This post regarding the Hotel Lancaster (aka Bruswick) is the refurbishment of another close by facility that is going to go from a very questionable establishment to a new Holiday Inn. This is good news for the convention center and our 2019 relocation.

Unloading for vendors shouldn't be too big a problem since folks will be arriving at different times. LOADING on Sunday could be a real problem with 70 vendors all trying to get out at once and only 6 or 8 loading slots. The organizers ought to give this some thought. I'm relatively local so I'm willing to wait a bit to give those with a long trek the first shot. But it would be nice if it were more organized than just every man for himself.

I just went to the Historicon 2019 website and made online reservations for the Lancaster Marriott at Penn Square (the convention host hotel) using the link provided. This is just an FYI for folks that may be interested.

I booked a room online at the Lancaster Marriott at Penn Square (convention center) using the Historicon reserved block. The HMGS site said self-parking would be "complimentary":https://www.hmgs.org/page/HconFuture

However, my reservation listing on the Marriott website lists parking as an additional charge at $19 USD per night:

Additional ChargesOn-site parking, fee: 2 USD hourly, 19 USD daily

Valet parking, fee: 35 USD daily

Off-site parking, fee: 2 USD hourly, 15 USD daily

I sought clarification from HMGS a coupe of hours ago. Hopefully they will respond in the next couple of days.

As Joby said in a different thread, there is a disconnect between the corporate reservation dept and the deal that HMGS made with the hotel. It was reiterated that the hotel will honor its agreement of free parking for hotel guests, whatever the reservation receipt says.

I received the following response from HMGS regarding the aforementioned parking issue:

Hi John,

That's their standard response email and landing page content. We were unaware before opening the block that their landing page and correspondence would include this information. We're trying to get it removed to avoid future confusion but the person handling our account at the Marriott is on vacation. The information the hotel is providing is inaccurate. Our agreement for parking pricing was made with the Municipal Parking Authority in Lancaster. The information on our website is accurate.

Sorry for the confusion.Thanks for contacting us about this,Joby MillerConvention DirectorHistoricon 2019

Appears to clear things up. Guests at Marriott will indeed received complimentary parking.

From the LCC contract Attendee Block Date Day Standard Room Total Rooms 07/10/2019 Wed 173 173 07/11/2019 Thurs 223 223 07/12/2019 Fri 223 223 07/13/2019 Sat 223 223Numvers are 'std' and 'total' and in all its 842, At the FCC we used 1100 room nites for the hotels we had contracts with. This does not include the 200 under construction at the LCC. The hotel for obvious reasons wont let us block the whole hotel the first year the show is there. Just like FCC.

This is what I don't understand about the seemingly pointless need to move the convention from the Host. Despite the constant whining about the place, it can't be argued there are hotels literally surrounding it, including two very nice new ones RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

Maybe the convention center will work okay, or maybe it will be an operational fiasco. I will reserve judgment and allow the benefit of the doubt. But, it can't be argued that a vast percentage of the attendees will be exiled to hotels well out of walking distance. Doesn't affect me, as I have my room reserved, but it's not good for the convention, and I don't think it makes any sense.

This is what I don't understand about the seemingly pointless need to move the convention from the Host.

By all means, lets continue to hold the con at the Host until it either falls apart around us, or they raise prices exponentially. Lets not have a back up plan, or knowledge of other convention centers. Would you like that instead?

It was quite clear the Host didn't want us there this past convention.

Kevin, Just to be clear about room nights – the 842 from the Marriott that you are comparing to the 1100 from Fredericksburg doesn't include:

a) the Hotel Lancaster (0.3 miles from the Marriott) – in which we have a block of 40 rooms with the strong potential to add more as the block fills out. As we are a new customer they were unwilling to commit a larger block to us up front.

b) the 100+ (not 200, as you said – maybe a typo?) rooms in the Marriott's new Tower.

If we add all of those 560 room nights (with no allowance for a block extension at the Hotel Lancaster) that gives us 1,400 room nights – 27% more than Fredericksburg.

To be clear, I'm not pointing this out to prove that one location is better than another, but to put some facts up against the scare-mongering of some that say we do not have enough lodging.

John HollierHMGS, Inc. BoardVice PresidentDirector of Marketing and Communications

By all means, lets continue to hold the con at the Host until it either falls apart around us, or they raise prices exponentially. Lets not have a back up plan, or knowledge of other convention centers. Would you like that instead?

It was quite clear the Host didn't want us there this past convention.

That's an absurd thing to say when it is obvious the Host is being (admittedly slowly) renovated. Yes, they were off their game on food this last time, but acting as though it is not clear that the place is improving is foolish. So, it's not going to fall apart, and I submit you know and understand this well. As for exponentially raising prices, you seem very confident the market will bear massive price increases from a hotel "falling apart around us." Honestly, it would make more sense to choose one of these diametrically opposed complaints…though there is, of course, no obvious evidence as to what pricing a renovated Host might offer. Certainly, we endured considerably higher room rates in F'burg.

Also, do you have any information at all to support an assertion that the Host doesn't want the business in the future, or is this just part of making up every complaint possible?

Just to be clear, I do believe those in charge are trying to run the conventions as well as possible, I'm just concerned that the logistics of fewer nearby spillover properties and the realities of dealing with the convention center and garages are going to prove to be more difficult and disruptive than people think.

With the changes going on at the "Tennis Barn", it will quickly become unusable as a vendor space. This building will soon have only the 1 overhead door and a very tight driveway to access the building (I do not think the changes to the old parking lot will help us in any way since we will most likely be unable to access the building from that side). Trying to get all of the vendors through that choke point is going to be very interesting. Other than that we have outgrown this space and cannot fit all of the vendors in there. I just don't see the Host as a very viable location going forward.

Also, do you have any information at all to support an assertion that the Host doesn't want the business in the future, or is this just part of making up every complaint possible?

I like the Host purely as a gaming hall. Unloading to distlefink is a breeze as a GM. That said, The Host is pretty sub par in just about every other category. BTC pointed out the dealer issues, and they won't get any better.

A lot of people have to unload, not just dealers. Game masters and flea marketeers have stuff to haul in as well and right now the main hotel is pretty much sold out? Yes, a change in venue can be good but like someone above stated dealing with these garages and distances may be problematic for some. But if I can find a room at a convention price I may very well have to check it out at least once.

So hopefully the BOD / CD will put in place some clear instructions on where / how best to load / unload and maybe some physical help each day….

While vonLoudens concerns are understandable, I'm not too worried. This is a proper Convention Center. It is designed to have product moved in and out of it (unlike the Host). And not just through the front door of the Marriot Hotel. I'm pretty happy how the BOD and the CD's have been handling things recently, heck they even ran tours to the Marriot during Historicon.

I expect some growing pains and things may be a bit clunky the first year. Civildisobedience has a good take on this above. And the same thing happened at the FCC. Like Holien, I am looking forward to this.