I have run into a phenomenon that I have not seen before in recruiting. There have been two players that are on my D-3 search list but have rejected a campus visit/home visit from me. Does anyone know what my options are? Should I treat them as if I were trying to pull them down and send them scouting visits? Would it work to continue trying to put effort in, or should I just move on?

Sometimes a recruit will reject visits if you have not made any contact with them prior. Normally if they are on your screen and send a phone call everything is good after that. I mean really how would you feel if some random coach you had never heard from before showed up on your door step?

Hi,
Could you please tell me exactly what the "Projected Level" tag on the Recruiting Search screen does? If I select "Division 3" from this pull down menu what exactly does that mean?

6/24/2011 4:15 PM

Customer Support

Thanks for the note. You indicate the talent level of the players that you want to find in your search for recruits.

6/24/2011 4:21 PM

dacj501

So if I indicate Division three players, all the results will be available to my Division 3 team?

6/24/2011 9:25 PM

Customer Support

Probably 99% of the time, they will be open to your efforts. There are rare cases where a player will drop after not getting any interest and show up in the search even though he won't be interested in going to a school at that level.

6/24/2011 11:35 PM

dacj501

That makes sense - If a player starts out on my D III list before recruiting starts he should be available on the first cycle though right?

6/25/2011 12:10 PM

Customer Support

Yes.

6/25/2011 1:48 PM

dacj501

In that case there must be an issue. Its well past first cycle now of course, and the player in question is now considering many other teams. BUT, Calvin McCune, a center from NJ, showed on my initial scouting search as a D III player. I took a screenshot. I can send if you need it. I sent him effort between 6 pm and 8 pm on opening day of recruiting. He rejected all phone calls and my scholarship offer out of hand. Before anyone else was considering him or before he could have dropped. No one else was considering him at 8 when he rejected me either, or for another couple cycles after that. I know of at least 1 conference mate suffering the same issue.

6/26/2011 1:55 PM

Customer Support

It looks like you withdrew the scholarship, not that he rejected it.

6/26/2011 3:16 PM

dacj501

Nope, I've noticed that it says that as well, but it also shows rejected scholarship - it is the third thing from the bottom showing on my recruiting history display for the player. He didn't reject the letters, but rejected phone calls and the scholarship offer. I still have screen shot if you want it.

I think it always shows that message when a scholarship is rejected, but I haven't seen it in a while. My history clearly shows rejected scholarship though, which he couldn't do if I rescinded it.

6/26/2011 4:00 PM

dacj501

I'm not looking for any action about returning recruiting money or anything, I moved on and found another player, no worries, but you folks earlier in this exchange agreed that if a player starts on the D III search page he should be recruitable, and this kid wasn't. And a number of other coaches are seeing the same thing. We just want to be acknowledged and not made to feel like someone there thinks we are lying about this or something. If you tell me that there seems to be something, and seble will take a look at it for the next release but in the meantime send a phone call first to D III kids as a work around, I have no problem with that either, I just want to be treated honestly. I sent this kid of mine 40 phone calls and 40 letters and a scholarship between 6pm and 8pm on the first cycle of recruiting. He rejected all the calls and the scholarship, did not reject the letters. Only cost me $700, no big deal. Why would I be going through the trouble of sending this to you if it did not happen? What is the upside for me to make it up? I just want the game that I love and have spent a lot of time and money on to love me back a little and not act like I'm lying to them for no reason...

6/26/2011 7:05 PM

Customer Support

Did you get any inbox responses from him? I don't see any. It sometimes helps for us to read the responses.

I'm certainly not accusing you of lying about anything, but often times we get tickets submitted where it's just a misunderstanding or someone looking at something wrong. If there is truly a problem then of course we want to track it down. The more information we have the more likely we'll be able to determine what happened.

6/26/2011 7:23 PM

dacj501

I did have some responses, and before I decided to send this in I deleted them, but I think they were just the responses to the letters which weren't rejected. I wish I had them. I feared you'd need them.

I know this is happening, and I get that its hard to find it from your side. I will pay very close attention next season and retain every thing in case it happens again to help you find it.

He definitely was there prior to recruiting and definitely rejected phone calls and scholie though... kujayhawk had the same thing happen, and I've sent him a sitemail to see if he got any inbox responses.

So far dahsdebater, kujayhawk and tiyani7886 all have commented either in the forums or on our conference CC that it happened to them too.

Thanks for hearing me and trying to figure it out. If you can't do anything more with what info I have, I'll make sure to try to save it all next time.

6/26/2011 7:52 PM

dacj501

Chris (kujayhawk) responded and sent me the messages he got from the two recruits that it happened with:

I don't have screenshots from my search screen (because that's not how I recruit, I dump everything into Excel).

But here is what I have for the two in my email. I don't have phone calls because they were rejected.

ERIC MULLIGAN
1. Coach Call

Hey Coach, thanks for the call to chat about Eric Mulligan. I'm just trying to be courteous so don't take this the wrong way - he doesn't even know who you are. May want to move on.

Rory Iorio
Head Basketball Coach
Sierra College

2. Home Visit

It was interesting to hear you talk about Thomas, but I didn't hear anything that would change my opinion. I'm still going to have to mark you down in the 'NO' column. It's in permanent ink.

Eric Mulligan

3. Scholarship

Coach, I gotta be honest with you - the more I think about playing there, the more I think it's just not for me. Sorry.

Eric Mulligan

ROBERT WEINSTOCK

1. Coach Call

Hey Coach, thanks for the call to chat about Robert Weinstock. From one coach to another, I don't think you have a shot here. I've never heard him mention Thomas - positively.

Joseph Karvonen
Head Basketball Coach
Corning Community College

2. Evaluation Notes (there was nothing in Mulligan's eval that said anything)

Overall, I think with some work, he'll be a decent Division II player - although he would probably sign with the right DIII school - I don't think there's anyway he'll see an offer from a DI school.

BTW, I tried to give him a thumbs up during the game and I'm pretty sure he flipped me off. I don't think that's a good sign.

[and]

Overall, I think with some work, he'll be a decent Division II player - although he would probably sign with the right DIII school - I don't think there's anyway he'll see an offer from a DI school.

Just my gut here, but I think we're chasing something we'll never catch. He's convinced he's going to play at a higher level than we can offer. I think he's right.

3. Scholarship

Coach, I gotta be honest with you - the more I think about playing there, the more I think it's just not for me. Sorry.

Robert Weinstock
.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Chris

6/27/2011 12:29 PM

Customer Support

In your case, he rejected your efforts after a scholarship was withdrawn. He accepted your efforts at the 7:00 cycle on 6/23, but then the scholarship was withdrawn before the next cycle. He rejected everything once that happened.

My guess is that it was an accident, since the withdraw is in the same place as the offer scholarship. Maybe you didn't realize that you'd already offered it once and ended up clicking it a second time.

6/27/2011 4:47 PM

dacj501

well, everything for me happened the first cycle - I didn't put anything in after the 8pm eastern cycle (I put all my effort in between 6 pm edt and 8 pm edt) next time around I'll keep a better eye and make sure if it happens again I'll have more info. He accepted the letters but not the phone calls or scholarship. Pretty sure I didn't rescind it, but I'll take more detailed notes next season. Thanks for looking at this, I still believe there is a problem, but I'll need more consistent evidence for you to find it maybe. Hopefully it won't happen next season, but if it does I'll be prepared.

6/27/2011 7:08 PM

Customer Support

Sorry, you're right, that did all happen in one cycle. The reasoning still applies though. A withdrawn scholarship immediately gives you major negative feelings from the player. The fact that it's easy to mistaken withdraw is a failure on our part. We'll put that on the list for improvement, to decrease the chances of it happening.

A quick followup on that withdraw thing - if I should accidentally withdraw a scholarship in the future, but I do notice it and immediately re-offer, is there still that negative impact? or does the re-offer negate that (kind of like the redshirt notify/retract thing?)

6/28/2011 9:46 AM

Customer Support

Currently a scholarship withdrawal is processed immediately, unlike other recruiting efforts. Re-offering helps, but it won't wipe out the negative impact of withdrawing.

based on my above post - if you can't recruit players that are on your list document (and get screen-captures if possible) of everything - and make sure you don't accidentally hit "rescind offer" and try sending a ticket. best of luck...

Okay thanks dac. I can say with 100% certainty that I did not rescind a scholarship offer to either of the two players this happened with. I made a coach call to both players before I offered a scholarship + campus visit. I was interested in trying to send a letter/regular phone call and try again but it was too late in the recruiting process to chance it not working and then missing out on my backup plans as well.

I would bet that these guys are being shown on the D3 list by mistake and should be treated as D2 backups/pull downs. This has never happened to me before, but this is my first season with A+ prestige and I am seeing some guys on my D3 list that I used to have to pull down.