Transport Reporter for The Age

The inability to use Google to plot public transport journeys in Melbourne has long been a source of frustration, made all the more galling by the fact that it can be done in every other Australian capital.

Use Google Maps to find the best way to get from the CBD to St Kilda, say, and you'll see options on how to get there by car, bicycle or on foot, but not by train, tram or bus. This is because the state has never publicly released its timetable data to be used by Google or any other developer.

Public Transport Victoria took a step towards fixing this situation on Thursday when it quietly released an "app programming interface" containing the state's timetable data. But just as PTV's own smartphone app was swamped by hostile reviews upon its release almost two years ago, this latest move by the authority has failed to please either the app developers or public transport advocates, who both say the data release is virtually useless.

The data has been released to conform to a state government policy to make its data available for the public good, in a format that "matches the operational needs of our business", PTV says. But it was evidently not released in a format that matches the needs of most developers who want to make apps for the public.

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Rob Amos, who developed the popular TramTracker app for iPhones, said the release was so limited in scope it was effectively "targeted at the hobbyist developer".

Google will not use the data in its current format, so Melbourne will remain a public transport black spot on Google Maps.

"We look forward to receiving transit information from Public Transport Victoria in an accessible format so that we can work with them to include their data feed on Google Maps," a spokesman said.

PTV said the release included timetable data for all train, tram, bus and V/Line services, plus myki outlets.

Tony Morton, president of the Public Transport Users Association, said PTV was "meeting the public halfway".

"It's not the full publication that you have in other places," Dr Morton said.

"In other parts of the world it's virtually a no-brainer that this is public transport and so the information is just published and there is no attempt to impose rules on how people use it [because] it's information that ultimately belongs to the public."

Jill Hennessy, the shadow minister for public transport, said Labor would, if elected in November, see that the data was fully released and in a more user-friendly format for developers.

"The culture of secrecy surrounding transport data has meant commuters have been stuck with PTV’s crappy app, which doesn’t even have a map function," Ms Hennessy said.

"Sadly the Napthine government’s limited release of data won’t bring our public transport technology out of the dinosaur age."

PTV said the release included timetable data for all train, tram, bus, and V/Line services, plus myki outlets.

A Napthine government spokeswoman said the data release was "evidence we are open for business, and committed to facilitating third party providers to develop innovative and customer focused applications".

"The Coalition government will work with industry to ensure data formats meet business needs so that new applications can add value to the products already provided by PTV," she said.

35 comments

Does this mean that our state government is actively protecting an entity that it chose to provide a public service from any sort of competition whatsoever? Isn’t competition supposed to be the keystone of why allowing business free reign is good for the country and all of us?

Commenter

EM

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 6:55AM

I thought the Liberals love competition. Thats what they say...except of course unless your a big business colglomerate in which case a handy donation to Dr Napthine and voila, there is no competition. And they keep telling us we are the intelligent country - lol. Pull the other one. We have been setting the bar lower and lower for the last 30 years and this State Government and its public authority cronies are sad little men and woman who are clearly far out of their depth in their management positions. Dr Napthine, sack the PTV supreme and at the same time, go back to the Port Fairy festival as thats all your good for - photo ops.And to think this was the man who was going to get this state working again - Ted Bailleau must be laughing in his jocks at the person who replaced him.

Commenter

Andrew

Location

Elsternwick

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 11:09AM

Simply stating that we are "open for business" is not the same as going to a concerted effort to ensure that businesses and developers can deal quickly and easily with the government, particularly in regards to something as innocuous as public transport timetabling information.

I contacted PTV a few months ago to advise them of issues with their 'PTV Original' app. I was informed that support is no longer available for that app, so I should instead use the newer 'PTV' app. For anyone who's actually used the newer app, you'll know how limited and frustrating it is. I was also told it would be updated "at some stage in the future", but we Victorians know that listening to promises about anything related to public transport is a futile endeavour.

I'll believe the ALP's promise to fix PT when I see "the wheels in motion", as they had many years to do things but hardly did anything, so their promises (particularly in an election year) seem quite hollow.

Commenter

Brendan in Melbourne

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 7:11AM

All money for public transport got used for Brumby's baby MYKI. Once again though gotta love Labors answer and promise to improve after 4 years in opposition and 11 years of nothing prior while in charge. Napthine mightn't be the ants pants, but please I just can't imagine the potential damage another Labor term of government in Victoria could do now post November.

Commenter

Michael

Location

Warrandyte

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 7:17AM

PTV is saying it has all the information you would need, yet others are saying it doesn't. No-one is saying what it DOES need, and no-one is asking when that specific information will be released. Surely those are more important issues, instead of getting the predictable opinions of PTUA and The Opposition.

Commenter

Cameron

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 7:25AM

Data IntegrationWho, or at least which CEO title and of which government agency is to be held responsible for bringing integrated time table information of all PT into the app world?...and by when?Commentary from the app developers would indicate there is a serious problem in the administration of the government sector which is not a function of any elected government.Effective integration of land-use and transport activity data has been achieved by the VATS and VISTA teams since 1994 and is still underway in 2014. Have too many experienced professional and competent staff left the Public Service in Victoria to prevent delivery of a level of service available in cities competing for liveability ranking with Melbourne?Who, or at least which CEO title and of which government agency is to be held responsible for bringing integrated time table information of all PT into the app world?...and by when?Commentary from the app developers would indicate there is a serious problem in the administration of the government sector which is not a function of any elected government.Effective integration of land-use and transport activity data has been achieved by the VATS and VISTA teams since 1994 and is still underway in 2014. Have too many experienced professional and competent staff left the Public Service in Victoria to prevent delivery of a level of service available in cities competing for livability ranking with Melbourne?

Commenter

Oz

Location

Trin Warren Tam-boore

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 8:21AM

Well, we've changed the government and the operating companies. But Public transport remains a shambles. The only common factor remaining is the Department of Transport. So yes, by process of elimination, it's the bureaucrats that have stuffed it up.

Commenter

kosh

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 12:35PM

Class Action!

Commenter

lawyer

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 8:28AM

I am showing extreme levels of restraint in not posting a barrage of four letter expletives here. This is absolutely pathetic. Sagas like this is what gives government and bureaucracy a bad name. Every other capital city in Australia, and indeed many other cities world wide, has their public transport data integrated with Google Maps – the fact that Melbourne does not is a joke.

Public requests to make this happen stretch back several years now. Time and again PTV has informed the public that the full release of their data to third parties is imminent and yet still we wait. It's simply not good enough.

Google Maps is a ubiquitous, user friendly navigation software platform. It greatly assists local citizens, visitors and tourists find their way around complex environments like modern cities. PTV is failing public transport users by not leveraging Google Maps’ readily accessible capabilities.

Commenter

Luke

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

March 11, 2014, 8:30AM

The weirdest thing about the PTV app is that the old one which is no longer available was a lot better than the current one which barely works and is not user friendly at all