In the catechism classes being taught in parishes here in Italy this week they do not say that every one needs 'faith and baptism' (AG 7, LG 14) to go to Heaven and avoid the fires of Hell; for salvation.

Last Sunday, Mission Sunday, I mentioned this to a seminarian from Nigeria who could be ordained next year.He replied not every one needs to convert. Since Vatican Council II says there are those who can be saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire (AG 7, LG 14).

Yes, so it was a mistake in Vatican Council II, to have these 'exceptions' , placed along with the orthodox passages which said 'all' need 'faith and baptism'.Since in the physical realm there are no exceptions.We cannot meet them. We cannot see them. We cannot know them. They do not exist. So how can they be exceptions?

This was a mistake in Vatican Council II since the 'exceptions' are not exceptions to all needing 'faith and baptism'.We do not and cannot know any of these 'exceptions', past or present. Secondly these so called exceptions could be followed with the baptism of water in the Catholic Church, in a way known only to God.So when they are in Heaven they would be Catholic.So the baptism of desire, being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of blood could still have been mentioned in Vatican Council II but not along with the orthodox passages. The error was there in their placing .The error was there in including them in Vatican Council II as being relevant to the necessity of the baptism of water for all with no exceptions.

So in Catechism classes it should be made clear that this was an error in Vatican Council II.

Since this mistake was made in the Baltimore Catechism(1808) and then in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 , it was carried over into Vatican Council II.

Why did Vatican Council II also have to mention those saved in imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3), when these cases are not known, past or present? Again like in 1808 and 1949, it is being suggested that there are known Protestants, saved outside the Catholic Church i.e without Catholic Faith.

So in Catechism Classes this confusion should be removed. We do not and cannot know anyone in 2015 saved in imperfect communion with the Church and without 'faith and baptism'.Every one needs to be a Catholic to go to Heaven. In Heaven there are only Catholics. Catholics are the new Chosen People of God, the Elect ( NA 4).Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.Similarly we do not and cannot know anyone saved outside the Church with 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11), 'a ray of the Truth'(NA 2), 'good and holy things 'in other religions(Nostra Aetate)etc.It should be said in religion class, that we do not and cannot know any exception to all needing 'faith and baptism' to avoid the fires of Hell (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441).Last Sunday, this was not said anywhere. Instead on Mission Sunday they were only talking about the poor.It was not said that the poor too, need faith and baptism to avoid the fires of Hell.-Lionel Andrades