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The point is that LD trashed pretty much EVERY opponent in OG 2008. So to pick out one particular trashing against one player, CJ, and say that that was not a "fair" trashing, and that the next trashing would as a fact not have been possible if CJ would have not "allowed" himself to be trashed (just like all the other OG opponents in the draw)..Seems far fetched reasoning at best, and really trying to extrapolate using guesswork and wishful presumptions instead of actual knowledge and facts.

Please remember CJ was the one player during OG that got the MOST number of points against LD in OGn 2008 :-)

I don't get you. Do you even know what we were talking before you jump in?

Those in bold actually support my claim/point of debate dont you know?

Ooh, I thought your point was that he got help? Sorry if I missunderstood your post.

No need sorry. You are right. I was confused. At first I couldn't understand your post as you claim I was presuming and guessing in my take but then I thought your last sentence actually supporting my claim.

My point was indeed that LD received some sort of assistance back then. I have writen enough and to fully understand my point, kindly start reading from page 178 I think.

No need sorry. You are right. I was confused. At first I couldn't understand your post as you claim I was presuming and guessing in my take but then I thought your last sentence actually supporting my claim.

My point was indeed that LD received some sort of assistance back then. I have writen enough and to fully understand my point, kindly start reading from page 178 I think.

Can you clarify exactly what specific advantages does the supposed assistance entail, beyond simply categorizing them as physical and/or mental?

Does your argument stop at whether LD received assistance, or do you further argue that the said assistance had an effect on his subsequent matches?

LD did not say that. He knows when its time to show some "humility". Could it be you that can beat LCW at 70% rate?

"I' is LD.

Can't prove that LD got assisstance from CJ . But the final shows LCW was not in the same level as LD. LCW made a lot progress after 2008. But he's still not good enough to beat LD in 2011 WC. That defeat was more a pyschologicall problem. When LCW had game point, he wanted to play safe but LD could take risk because he could accept a lost to LCW. The result made this year's OLY game more interesting to watch. Now I only like to watch games between LD, LCW and CL.

The important point is not a single of Lin Dan's opponents breathe a word or maybe even entertain a thought that Lin Dan ever needed any assistance from anyone to win his matches. Lin Dan is simply too good. That's why he's called Super Dan. That's why Peter Gade regarded him as "The Greatest Player in History". That's why Lee Hyun Il said he is "the perfect shuttler".Period.

I am a fan of LD the player. Yes, LD is possibly one of the greatest players in the history of the game. I write "possibly" and "one of" and "history" after much consideration. For such statements, statistics are quite meaningless because there is a lot of subjectivity and variable values that come into the frame of reference as far as I am concerned.

Be that as it may, he is still one of the best in the history of the game, and I think that should be good enough for him. Obviously not good enough for some of his fans, but they are always entitled to their opinion, for what it's worth.

My first sentence was "I am a fan of LD the player." Yes, you may read between the lines. And there is something I will never understand: How does being "the greatest player etc etc" entitle you to milk the situation by being a willing participant to blatant manipulation without copping some of the blame? Exactly how "great" does that make one? I have been waiting for 2 years for an explanation and I have found none that is honest or guileless or not politically motivated. I suspect it will continue to be a long wait.

Can you clarify exactly what specific advantages does the supposed assistance entail, beyond simply categorizing them as physical and/or mental?

Does your argument stop at whether LD received assistance, or do you further argue that the said assistance had an effect on his subsequent matches?

Originally Posted by laonong

"I' is LD.

Can't prove that LD got assisstance from CJ . But the final shows LCW was not in the same level as LD. LCW made a lot progress after 2008. But he's still not good enough to beat LD in 2011 WC. That defeat was more a pyschologicall problem. When LCW had game point, he wanted to play safe but LD could take risk because he could accept a lost to LCW. The result made this year's OLY game more interesting to watch. Now I only like to watch games between LD, LCW and CL.

My first sentence is "I am not a fan of LD the player" but it doesn't matter.

It is an open secret that CBA has fixed results of matches in the past be it the women's category or men's. It is nothing new that when comes a Chn vs Chn game, the player who stood a better chance in bringing glory to China in the subsequent matches would received an easy match (as what I described in my previous posts). As for that LD vs CJ match, I came to my own conclusion and stood by my opinion that it happened. Period.

Now the point is some of LD's supporters and fans are agitated and showed very strong reactions, asking for evidence or prove in regards to my opinion and some even brought up LCW which to me is beside the point.

What I wanted to relate to you people is I don't have prove, evidence or whatsoever as requested (for that you need to ask LYB and the players and see whether you would get any LOL) but hey, you can simply brush it off as they are just my personal opinion. Don't get so worked up. LD's position as "the greatest player" as claim by his fans wouldn't be threatened. Would he?

Those events did happened. It is up to the individual how they see it and if it really existed, I can't see why LD would be exempted.

My first sentence is "I am not a fan of LD the player" but it doesn't matter.

It is an open secret that CBA has fixed results of matches in the past be it the women's category or men's. It is nothing new that when comes a Chn vs Chn game, the player who stood a better chance in bringing glory to China in the subsequent matches would received an easy match (as what I described in my previous posts). As for that LD vs CJ match, I came to my own conclusion and stood by my opinion that it happened. Period.

Now the point is some of LD's supporters and fans are agitated and showed very strong reactions, asking for evidence or prove in regards to my opinion and some even brought up LCW which to me is beside the point.

What I wanted to relate to you people is I don't have prove, evidence or whatsoever as requested (for that you need to ask LYB and the players and see whether you would get any LOL) but hey, you can simply brush it off as they are just my personal opinion. Don't get so worked up. LD's position as "the greatest player" as claim by his fans wouldn't be threatened. Would he?

Those events did happened. It is up to the individual how they see it and if it really existed, I can't see why LD would be exempted.

If you stand by your opinion as you claim, isn't the onus on you to prove your point?

That aside, you quoted my post in your reply, so I assume whatever was in your reply was, at least partly, directed at me. Nowhere in my post did I ask for evidence or proof of any sort. It was simply a clarification as to what your actual point consisted of. If you don't want to answer, that's fine really.

Officially he could have won more titles and trust me. Instead 50 titles, he could have double it to 100

Pls get this into your head once and for all. It's got nothing to do with who's the better/lesser player. It's all about boosting the chance of the player that CBA deemed to have the greater chances in bringing glory for them and his teammates would render some sort of assistance to make sure that happen, especially when it comes to major tournaments that tops the priority list of CBA.

I'd written enough I guess. It seems like going in circles. Pls read my post from pg178 if you people still have any queries.

If you stand by your opinion as you claim, isn't the onus on you to prove your point?

That aside, you quoted my post in your reply, so I assume whatever was in your reply was, at least partly, directed at me. Nowhere in my post did I ask for evidence or proof of any sort. It was simply a clarification as to what your actual point consisted of. If you don't want to answer, that's fine really.

I multiquoted and it was a reply to a few people. Btw, all my answers are there if you could read properly.. from my previous posting.

If only Lin Dan were more selfish, self-centred and cared only about his own fame and glory, winning all the accolades,titles,ranking points and position for himself. But then he wouldn't be my Lin Dan Instead he is ever willing to help his colleagues,sacrifice himself and put nation before self.That's my Lin Dan.

He was a willing partner not to milk anything from others but to give of himself,notably to help Chen Jin qualify for the Olympics which under normal circumstances he would have automatically qualified for being the top 5 ranked players if not for the special BWF and IOC rule limiting/restricting to 2 or at most 3 participants on certain conditions. Even Du Pengyu at no. 10 should have qualified too. However,as a result of that ruling,Chen Jin had to play 22 tournaments in one year at higher risk of injury, and his teammate LD was castigated by some for "helping" him as if he,CJ, didn't deserve it. Both LD and CJ needn't have to do all this in the first place.

Whether any other player(s) of other nationalities in the same situation would have done the same thing is a hypothetical question. No wonder Indian coach P Gopichand was all praise saying hats off to China,they work and hunt as a team,and that we should all learn from them. Also Peter Gade laughed it off as a cultural thing,no big deal.

Among his ardent fans, there are those who want him to win everything, no, some more,not enough,elevating him to godlike status - this is one end of the spectrum - on the other end,there are those who are contented and feel he has nothing more to prove, a few even think he may have won too much already. As for me,he is The Greatest of All Time as a player, and as a person,he is a good man, an extraordinary man warts and all, absolutely one of a kind.