I would like to ask you, is it possible to install firmware for this wireless card? I am new to fatdog, and I don't know how to setup this wireless card. It is bcm 4313
Broadcom wireless device [14e4:4727]

That should already be supported. Perhaps you need a newer firmware. Try the attached files, put them into /lib/firm

gcmartin wrote:

The process/steps to carry out these task; could you share them.

Open terminal, then type:

Code:

killall dhcpcd; udhcpc -qi wlan0

.

snail wrote:

Here they are jamesbond. As you can see, the amount of movement involved is subtle, within the precision that I can place the icons anyway.

Thanks. The difference is indeed subtle. The "click on the green checkbox to unmount" is somewhat of a hack and is based on heuristics; these heuristics may not be correct for your screen size. For whatever it is worth, I have changed the icon placement algorithm in Fatdog Next, they may or may not solve the problem.

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This may be "expected behaviour when you move the Download folder outside the savefile" to experts like yourself. It is a serious potential usability issue to non-geeks. This case occurs whenever Fatdog is installed into the Windows partition, using fatdog's own installer, which is likely to be a very common case given how damned awkward NTFS partitions have been made to partition nowdays. mnt/sda2 is the most obvious route to the newb, although even that's none too obvious. As a suggestion, could the Fatdog installer be made to set up a symlink to /aufs/devsave called "Windows Partition" in /root, so it is easy to find in the Open File window, in the case of FatdoginWin installs?

Actually, now that I re-read your comment, I realise that I don't understand what you're trying to say. What exactly is the problem? What is the partition layout of the problematic computer? (ie what is sda1, what's the contents/partition types there, sda2, and so on and so on, and where do you install Fatdog)?

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Since the "fix" I stumbled upon is doing nothing more clever than driving WPA-Gui, Surely the program should be able to be smart enough to realise that it's locked and automatically do what I have to spend several seconds doing, after about a week discovering how to?

Wpa-Gui isn't perfect and I'm glad that you have found a workaround

Quote:

If you close the WPA-Gui window, by clicking File/exit, Not only does the WPA-Gui window close but the Taskbar icon also vanishes. There is no way of getting it back easier than running wpa-gui from the terminal, there are no icons in either the menu or the control panel. It also seems to loose any changes that you have just made in the Manage Networks tab. The wifi connection still persists however.

Yes, one is not supposed to close Wpa-Gui window by clicking File/Exit. One learns the hard way of the mistake of doing so Anyway you can make changes persists by choose File/save.

Quote:

The cross on the WPA-Gui window header bar seems OK, it closes the window but does not kill the taskbar icon.

Yes, that's normal behaviour.

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I know very little but I do know about symlinks. What confused me is that apparently, GDMap doesn't. Since the only point of using GDMap, apart from admiring the rather pretty graphic, is to find out what is eating your storage, surely it should ignore symlinks? At least as the default?

As I said previously, Fatdog doesn't use symlinks for this, and gdmap is fooled by that. Just remember the fact that /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 is the same (also /usr/X11R7/lib64 and /usr/X11R7/lib); they don't use double the space as you think they are. This is one of the thing that one needs to learn about Fatdog.

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I did not use a terminal command, so it must have been xarchive from the menu that caused the problem. Fatdog started frantically warning me that I was eating the savefile but I couldn't come up with a solution in time to avert a smash.

Can you tell me the exact steps to reproduce the problem?

Quote:

By the way, I see Pupzip is still in there but there is no icon to access it??

Pupzip is called everytime you click a compressed file. It is the one that finally launches xarchiver for you. There is no icon to launch it manually.

chapchap70 wrote:

I must be learning a little bit because I can now answer a couple of questions or at least know how to find the answer. That is better than before. I seem to be able to find my way around linux with X now.

Well I'm glad you do

Quote:

Snail wrote:

Right-clicking an item in the menu pops up a button labled "Add to Desktop". This is a great feature but unfortunately, it does nothing as far as I can see. Except that, after clicking the button, it vanishes and then left-clicking the desktop no longer banishes the menu. Only after the main menu is moused-over will such clicking make the menu disappear.

When I tried this, I too expected an icon to appear right on my desktop so I can click on it just like all my other desktop icons. I found that right clicking these puts an icon in /root/desktop where you can drag the icon to the actual desktop. I don't see the purpose of this except it might be helpful for people who don't know to look for desktop icons in /usr/share/applications.

No, there is no purpose there. This is a leftover of Puppy/Fatdog's desktop "quirks". Perhaps it is best to remove that "add-to-desktop" right-click menu altogether because it confuses people.

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I discovered an annoying glitch with Osmo. It appears that Osmo does not save anything that you enter into notes until it is closed down completely. If you shut down Fatdog while Osmo is still open, you loose all your changes. It would appear that whatever mechanism the OS uses to clean up open applications during shutdown isn't as "good" as shutting down using Osmo's own methods.

If you run it with "Enable systray" ticked under options/general, which is the default, it is most likely that Osmo will still be running unseen in the background and a shutdown will therefore hose your data. Running it that way is therefore inadvisable and it is a pity that it is the default.

Osmo not saving on the fly seems weird to me, especially for an app that is designed to go to the tray by default. Fatdog's closing down mechanism is also not idiot proof enough for this idiot it would seem.

I will have to test this and get back to you.

Quote:

Running Osmo off the clock is what other Puppies do and seems a good idea to me. The Digital default is a crappy little calender display. The Fatdog developers substitute Clockset, but this is a wasteful use of systray space for a relatively rarely used app. It would be nice to have it available on right click though but I have no idea how to do that.

I assume by now you already find out how to do that? Right click on the panel, choose Panel settings, go to "panel applet" tabs, highlight the Digital clock, then click Edit.

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I wonder if the Desktop folder is work in progress? One would hope that clicking the button might finish the job of posting to the desktop.

It's not possible to make an error when dragging an icon from /usr/share/applications to the desktop. Where I went wrong was in trying to remove an icon from the desktop using the "Send to trash" right click option, rather than "Remove item(s)". I had to ignore a warning to do that - idiot.

That's how Fatdog desktop works. You will just need to learn its quirks and behaviours (every operating system has one). Until we replace ROX-Filer as the desktop, this will be the norm.

The good thing is - if you make mistake, just reboot without savefile and everything will come back to normal. If you accidentally delete system stuff, copy them again - they are always available from /aufs/pup_ro.

Quote:

[quote="chapchap70"]

Snail wrote:

At least the /root/startup folder method is better than having to edit some script. It would be nice if there was a menu item sending you there. How did you find it chapchap?

I found it by poking around. Clicking the Home icon on the top left opens the /root directory. I clicked on the Startup directory and read the Readme. I also remembered that there is a Desktop directory when right clicking the dropdown menu to send an icon to desktop didn't seem to do anything. I opened the directory and the icon I sent to Desktop was there.

I agree the documentation could be better. But I don't think creating a menu item for every single function is a good idea.

gcmartin wrote:

A question for clarification
When connecting a removable device where the files are stored on a Memory device versus a rotating drive/device, is there a potential that if it is mounted and disconnected without a umount, for file-level destruction? Is that potential the same as a rotating device?

Yes, the same, so don't do that.

Quote:

I ask because I saw this thread. I think I understand the issues with a rotating device with head-movements as its being yanked, but wonder about a memory storage device (xPhone) like the one described.

A phone should not refuse to boot when its end-user storage device is corrupted. That's a reflection of poor design.

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Was a bit surprised to find that neither .txt nor .html files had run actions associated with them, other than "$@". It's like that when booted up without a savefile, yet in that case both types open perfectly well in Geany or SeaMonkey, as appropriate!

The only reason that I noticed this was that using my savefile, at some time, this stopped working and clicking on a file icon in Rox didn't do anything. It certainly didn't happen after I first made a savefile, so it's something I've done but I can't think of anything I've done remotely likely to cause this. I fixed it by entering defaulttexteditor and defaultbrowser to the run actions.

Weirder still .PDF files continue to open just fine, even though they have only "$@" as a run action.

I have checked the effect of reverting to "$@" as the run action for .txt files. The files will no longer open until I re-add defaulttexteditor in the run action.

That sometimes happens to me too. It's a problem with Rox. You can usually fix the problem by deleting a folder called "/root/.config/rox.sourceforge.net" and then restart the X server.

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I seem to be a perfect tester. If it can be broken, I'll break it.

And in fact we are grateful for your testing and reports. We'll fix what we can, and in the long run it will help others too. But don't expect that every single thing will be fixed, for many different reasons.

Quote:

Why are half the icons in the bottom panels not showing in the Panel preferences edit box? See screenshot. How would I remove the Terminal icon from the Application Launch Bar, for instance, when I can't see it?

Is there any way to edit the icons, as the ones in the Application Launch Bar look rather dull? Better yet, can someone point me to where I can read up on this?

Right click on the terminal icon, choose "application launchbar settings", and modify to your heart's content

sda2 is the windows 7 partition. sda1 is a 100MB ntfs partition containing windows boot stuff. As this is on a second hand Thinkpad T400 and the original XP has been removed and Win 7 ultimate put on by the previous owner, I can't say if that is a standard set-up. As I said, Fatdog was installed onto the Windows partition, sda2, using Fatdog's own boot manager, so that the installation is a "standard" one, as far as that goes. The problem I encountered was when using the standard, "Open File" menu. To a non-geek, it is not easy to see how to access files on the Windows filesystem. In my case, I tried to use what I knew from other Puppies and tried /mnt/sda2, which obviously won't work. To save such hassles in future, it was easy enough to put a symlink to /aufs/devsave into /root and name it "Windows Partition". I was suggesting that a non-geek would not have a clue about that and may become very confused. It would be easy for the Fatdog installer to do at least that much for him. Even nicer could be to ask the user for his username and make a link to the user's home directory.

WPA-GUI isn't perfect. It's pretty good though. How do I ask the developers to perfect it?

I may have been confused by GDMap's confusion but do you really believe I still think the lib and lib64 are not the same thing? Incidently, Rox thinks that /lib64 is a symlink to /lib, so less confused than GDMap but still not quite there!

Steps to wreck the savefile using xarchiver: I got pretty flustered while this was happening but as best that I can remember it went like this. Open xarchiver, create a new archive, drag /lib to the panel and click add. Then dither.

A working "Add to Desktop" button would be a great user enhancement. It would be a real pity to see it not followed up. How difficult would it be to make it so? The /root/desktop directory itself does seem unnecessary. I have to say that I disagree with you about how much to put in the menu. Your perspective is that of an expert, mine is more akin to the normal user AKA "idiots". I have even started a discussion topic on this:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=719666#719666

Yes, I have already made Osmo the program that runs on left clicking the digital clock. You had clockset as the action. What I would now like to do is to make clockset one of the options in the digital clock right-click menu and I see no way to do that. At present what you get is just the standard LXPanel stuff. How would I do that? It isn't doable by the method you describe, that's only for left-click.

Quote:

It's not possible to make an error when dragging an icon from /usr/share/applications to the desktop. Where I went wrong was in trying to remove an icon from the desktop using the "Send to trash" right click option, rather than "Remove item(s)". I had to ignore a warning to do that - idiot.

That's how Fatdog desktop works. You will just need to learn its quirks and behaviours (every operating system has one). Until we replace ROX-Filer as the desktop, this will be the norm.

The good thing is - if you make mistake, just reboot without savefile and everything will come back to normal. If you accidentally delete system stuff, copy them again - they are always available from /aufs/pup_ro.

As I said, I was an idiot. But PLEASE don't drop Rox as the file manager. Once you get into it it's fantastic. with Don570's Rox-Rightclicks enhancement it's even more superb. Any chance of rightclicks for FatDog? If I had my way, it should be built in to every Pup. I helped to convince Playdayz to do that with Lucid but no other developer so far. Thanks for the hint about /aufs/pup-ro. I will probably need it.

Quote:

That sometimes happens to me too. It's a problem with Rox. You can usually fix the problem by deleting a folder called "/root/.config/rox.sourceforge.net" and then restart the X server.

Thanks, I'll try that.

Quote:

And in fact we are grateful for your testing and reports. We'll fix what we can, and in the long run it will help others too. But don't expect that every single thing will be fixed, for many different reasons.

I certainly don't expect that! I am more than happy to have such a long and considered response however, thank you for that. I will try to make my well-meaning reports at least slightly more of a help than a hindrance.

sda2 is the windows 7 partition. sda1 is a 100MB ntfs partition containing windows boot stuff. As this is on a second hand Thinkpad T400 and the original XP has been removed and Win 7 ultimate put on by the previous owner, I can't say if that is a standard set-up. As I said, Fatdog was installed onto the Windows partition, sda2, using Fatdog's own boot manager, so that the installation is a "standard" one, as far as that goes. The problem I encountered was when using the standard, "Open File" menu. To a non-geek, it is not easy to see how to access files on the Windows filesystem. In my case, I tried to use what I knew from other Puppies and tried /mnt/sda2, which obviously won't work. To save such hassles in future, it was easy enough to put a symlink to /aufs/devsave into /root and name it "Windows Partition". I was suggesting that a non-geek would not have a clue about that and may become very confused. It would be easy for the Fatdog installer to do at least that much for him. Even nicer could be to ask the user for his username and make a link to the user's home directory.

Ah I see now. The standard idiom in Puppy to access the partition where your installation (savefile) is to use "/mnt/home"; this is also true in Fatdog. It has been like this for many years. I think your suggestion is good, I'll see if I can add "Windows Partition" symlink to /root (when the user obviously install into a Windows system).

Quote:

WPA-GUI isn't perfect. It's pretty good though. How do I ask the developers to perfect it?

Wpa-Gui is part of wpa_supplicant, so you need to contact its developers here: http://hostap.epitest.fi/wpa_supplicant/
Beware that not all open-source projects are nice to those that they perceive as noobs.

Quote:

Incidently, Rox thinks that /lib64 is a symlink to /lib, so less confused than GDMap but still not quite there!

Oh yes, /lib64 *is* a symlink to /lib. It isn't a bind-mount like /usr/lib and /usr/lib64. You probably want to know why --- simply because a bind-mounted /lib64 doesn't seem to work, while symlink does

Quote:

A working "Add to Desktop" button would be a great user enhancement. It would be a real pity to see it not followed up. How difficult would it be to make it so? The /root/desktop directory itself does seem unnecessary.

Ok, I owe you a deeper explanation about this. Simply put, ROX-Filer --- which we use as the "desktop manager", doesn't follow the "open desktop standard" (published by freedesktop.org). Why? Because ROX-Filer predates the standard by many many years and in fact some of ROX-Filer ideas and features got "standardised" (e.g the shared mime stuff).

"/root/Desktop" is the standard where desktop manager is supposed to place icons, symlinks, etc whatever you see on the desktop. That's why lxpanel, which aims to be standards-compliant, will put a symlink there if you ask it to "add to desktop". But ROX-Filer ignores /root/desktop as it maintains its own desktop settings in a separate file (called the pinboard, usually located in /root/.config/rox.sourceforge.net/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin). To "fix" this we should either abandone ROX-Filer as desktop manager and use one which is standard's compliant (e.g. xfce, pcmanfm, spacefm and many others) or patch lxpanel to use ROX-Filer's method to "add to desktop".

Quote:

I have to say that I disagree with you about how much to put in the menu.

I suppose you're disagreeing with this:

jamesbond wrote:

But I don't think creating a menu item for every single function is a good idea.

If that's the case, then let's just agree to disagree Everything comes with a learning curve, and people get better after a while, they don't stay as noobs forever (except perhaps our resident noob - Nooby . People who learns to ride a bike will eventually take the training wheels off --- these wheels is a hindrance once you know how to ride a bike.
Putting everything in the menu may look good when you start, but a menu which is too complex is actually a clutter and reduce its usefulness. Fatdog may have a steeper learning curve but we certainly hope that once you reach into a certain proficiency level, it will help you to do your stuff better rather than dragging you with the training wheels.

Quote:

Yes, I have already made Osmo the program that runs on left clicking the digital clock. You had clockset as the action. What I would now like to do is to make clockset one of the options in the digital clock right-click menu and I see no way to do that.
At present what you get is just the standard LXPanel stuff. How would I do that? It isn't doable by the method you describe, that's only for left-click.

The easiest way to do it is to look into the thread "simple icon tray" by technosaurus. Fatdog includes "sit"; and in fact in Fatdog Next the 'freememapplet' has been replaced by a script that uses sit script.

Quote:

As I said, I was an idiot. But PLEASE don't drop Rox as the file manager. Once you get into it it's fantastic. with Don570's Rox-Rightclicks enhancement it's even more superb. Any chance of rightclicks for FatDog? If I had my way, it should be built in to every Pup. I helped to convince Playdayz to do that with Lucid but no other developer so far. Thanks for the hint about /aufs/pup-ro. I will probably need it.

Don't worry, Rox Filer is a nice little program that provides desktop management, file manager, and actually a panel (which we don't use) in less than 500k. I can't speak on behalf of kirk but as long as I think it will be here to stay for a while
Don570 has created a RoxRightClicks for Fatdog before, you may want to search the forum for that.

Note: if you do install the RoxRightClicks, don't do what I said before - of deleting /root/.config/rox.sourceforge.net --- that will wipe out the RoxRightClicks.
In Fatdog, the right-clicks actions are stored in the central repository in /etc/xdg/rox.sourceforge.net; however *in theory* it is possible to have a per-user setting in $HOME/.config/rox.sourceforge.net (usually $HOME is /root); but ROX Filer has a nasty bug that when you create per-user right-click action, the original central repository setting is ignored
So the better advice probably is firstly, copy /etc/xdg/rox.sourceforge.net/ROX-Filer/SendTo to your /root/.config/rox.sourceforge.net/ROX-Filer/SendTo and then install RoxRightClicks and make your changes from there.

@Atle when you boot with the LiveCD as you go through the menu you should be able to see the boot parameters used to disable problematic drivers; copy then into your grub.lst / syslinux.cfg as neeed. Or otherwise just open the liveCD and look into isolinux.cfg, all the boot parameters are there, use whichever one you need

@ted dog - thanks!

@don922 - jwm is there for jwm lovers. Myself and kirk we don't use it, so it kind of ... unsupported. Perhaps there are others here who can help you?

@DrDeaf: please provide output of "lspci". I checked lenovo site for x320t and it doesn't tell me which ethernet card it uses.

@Snail: I checked, Osmo has an option to "save data after every modification" in the General tab (this is by default is turned on). I tested by shutting down after I created a new calendar entry and at next bootup I can see my entry.

@DrDeaf: please provide output of "lspci". I checked lenovo site for x320t and it doesn't tell me which ethernet card it uses.
cheers!

Hi there! Thank you for your reply!
First off, I hope I correctly typed that the notebook is a X230t...
I am now back in the USA for a couple of months and I can tell you that it appears (I just got in yesterday) that the router may play a part. Here, I can "shop" connections easily and at first look I think there may not be a problem here.... There will be a very busy time for a bit but I will get back with more info.

@DrDeaf: please provide output of "lspci". I checked lenovo site for x320t and it doesn't tell me which ethernet card it uses.
cheers!

Hi there! Thank you for your reply!
First off, I hope I correctly typed that the notebook is a X230t...
I am now back in the USA for a couple of months and I can tell you that it appears (I just got in yesterday) that the router or something else may play a part. Here, I can "shop" connections easily and at first look I think there may not be a problem here.... There will be a very busy time for a bit but I will get back with more info.

I have a newer AMD chip that isn't supported in the 13.4 released version of AMDs proprietary catalyst drivers. It runs with the 13.4 pet for Fatdog 620/621, but not well (dual monitor setup).

I've been trying unsuccessfully to package the 13.8 beta version in a pet but haven't succeeded. Does anybody have instructions or a script for this?

When I run AMD's Catalyst installer it's recognizing Fatdog as a Slackware distro, not sure if that's correct or not. I noticed AMD's installer is putting files in different locations than the fatdog pet. I've tried building a pet but so far no luck.

Now that I have a quiet, more deliberate opportunity to test, I am thinking this situation is completely on the machine. The Thinkpad has a physical, slide switch which enables/disables wireless. So, when I write that wireless is “on” or “off” here I refer to the switch position. Wireless, “connected/not connected” refers to the results of the wpa_gui procedure.

Cold boot with eth0 not connected to the router:
With wireless on (not connected) eth0 fails as described before.
With wireless off, and after boot eth0 is then connected, Network Wizard loads module e1000e successfully.

Cold boot with eth0 connected to the router:
With wireless switched either way (on/off) the module e1000e loads successfully at boot.
After boot, subsequently removing the eth0 connection to router and then using wpa_gui to connect wireless works.
After then switching wireless to off, the eth0 reconnect to router is successful.

I have a newer AMD chip that isn't supported in the 13.4 released version of AMDs proprietary catalyst drivers. It runs with the 13.4 pet for Fatdog 620/621, but not well (dual monitor setup).

Please do "lspci" when you're on terminal so we know what cards you're using and perhaps can include the firmware in next Fatdog release.

Quote:

I've been trying unsuccessfully to package the 13.8 beta version in a pet but haven't succeeded. Does anybody have instructions or a script for this?

Unfortunately no, it is rather a manual process at the moment. I have my terse notes but my hand is currently too full to write a full-fledged FAQ on how to do this (you can have my terse notes but I'm sure it will only brings up more questions than answers).

Quote:

When I run AMD's Catalyst installer it's recognizing Fatdog as a Slackware distro, not sure if that's correct or not. I noticed AMD's installer is putting files in different locations than the fatdog pet. I've tried building a pet but so far no luck.

Yes it will think that Fatdog is Slackware-based but it is *not* and it will install files to the wrong directories (mainly graphic driver files needs to be in /usr/X11R7/lib64 instead of /usr/lib64) which will require relocation.

If you can wait a little while, we'll get the next latest Catalyst driver out with the next Fatdog release.

DrDeaf wrote:

Cold boot with eth0 not connected to the router:
With wireless on (not connected) eth0 fails as described before.
With wireless off, and after boot eth0 is then connected, Network Wizard loads module e1000e successfully.

Cold boot with eth0 connected to the router:
With wireless switched either way (on/off) the module e1000e loads successfully at boot.
After boot, subsequently removing the eth0 connection to router and then using wpa_gui to connect wireless works.
After then switching wireless to off, the eth0 reconnect to router is successful.

Thank you DrDeaf. This is the first time that I see that wireless and ethernet are dependent on each other - one has to be turned off for others to work. Usually what happens is that both connection will work but one has to configure the IP routing properly (as the computer will effectively become a dual-homed machine with both eth0 and wlan0 are connected).

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