I was 36 years old. I had a wife, two kids and a mortgage, not to mention a 120-mile daily commute. I needed to take a new approach to my car purchases. What I was doing was definitely not working…it was time to balance practicality and romanticism in car buying. As much as I wanted to be the guy with the old school Curbside Classic American iron as a daily driver, I no longer had the time, money or mechanical skills to live this dream.

My good friend and mentor Dominic gently convinced me of this and slowly persuaded me that it was time to let go of some of the hard and fast rules and prejudices I had developed in terms of my preferences when buying cars, namely: 1) Only buy American 2) All four cylinder cars are weak and underpowered 3) Avoid front wheel drive 4) Spending more than $3,000 to purchase a car is a mistake 5) With the exception of the Lexus LS 400, Acura Legend, and Acura NSX, all Japanese cars are unsafe penalty boxes. He then took me car shopping. I thought for sure this would mean a Sentra, Corolla, Civic, Neon, or Escort. I actually ended up being happy with what awaited me, a 2005 Honda Accord LX in Graphite Pearl.

The Accord was a certified pre-owned car with 44,000 miles. I was very impressed with the high quality interior. While not ostentatious, it was functional and quite comfortable. I especially liked the electroluminescent gauges which were very classy, but they did take some getting used to. Since the dashboard was always lit up, I had to remember to turn on the headlights at night! The only thing really missing was an auxiliary jack for my MP3 player.

It had the VTEC DOHC 2.4 liter four-cylinder engine with 160 hp. Handling was very good, and acceleration was not bad. However, I do remember manually downshifting a few times to improve performance which the owner’s manual said was OK to do. Remember I was coming from V8-equipped cars. When I wasn’t manually shifting, shifts with the five-speed automatic were so smooth as to be virtually undetectable. At 34 MPG, gas mileage was better than anything I’d ever owned before.

Overall, it seemed very solid and well built. One thing that was refreshing in light of my past few experiences was the fact that the car needed nothing except for oil changes and new tires. Absolutely nothing went wrong with the car. I was never in fear of it stranding me. The last time I had a car this reliable was my old Acclaim, except that the Honda was much more fun because it was peppier, more comfortable, and got better gas mileage. I also owned this car during the last few months of my Grandma’s life so it helped to not have to worry about the car failing me when I needed to get to the hospital. Because our only other car, the Caprice wagon, was ailing and no longer reliable, we ended up taking the Accord everywhere, subjecting it to frequent and heavy use where it served faithfully and reliably.

The only reason we replaced it is because frankly, we used it way too much, putting almost 40,000 miles on it a year. Another year of driving would put it over 100,000 miles . After going through some harrowing times with my last few COALs, I was a little wary of pushing my luck, especially since this was my first Honda. I do remember checking the online forums to see how reliable Accords of this generation were after 100,000 miles. At the time, they were still fairly new so there were not too many with higher mileage, like mine. Because of my inexperience with Hondas, we traded it in for next week’s COAL. In retrospect, knowing what I know now, I could have easily kept it, and it would probably still be running and trouble-free today. I still miss this very refined and balanced car.

Since my wife was still driving my old Caprice wagon, it had become obvious that retiring that venerable platform was inevitable. A solution soon emerged as my in laws were upgrading their vehicles, so my wife took over their 2002 Subaru Forester and our Caprice wagon passed into history. This marked the first time in 7 years that we did not have a B-body on duty. The Forester was a well equipped S model with the Cold Weather Package, which meant heated front seats, side mirrors, and limited slip differential.

Under the hood was a 2.5 liter four-cylinder with 165 hp. I found the engine quite brawny, with very strong acceleration. At 23 MPG, gas mileage was not much better than the Caprice wagon it replaced. In addition, it had a relatively small gas tank, which limited its cruising range.

The interior, while not as comfortable as my Accord’s, was quite robust, able to withstand anything two small children could dish out. We also liked the heated front seats, a feature my Accord did not have. The frameless windows were also interesting.

While not as commodious as the Caprice wagon it was replacing, we found the cargo area spacious and versatile. There was also a power outlet in the rear cargo area. It was pretty cool, because it was the perfect place to plug in our air pump to pump up the kids’ bicycle tires, footballs and basketballs.

The two things I most appreciated about the Forester were its 7.5 inches of ground clearance and AWD capability. Indeed, we used it during many a snowstorm, and it never left us stuck, even in weather that immobilized our other cars.

In terms of maintenance and repairs, it needed the most attention at 90,000 miles. Maintenance items included the timing belt, spark plugs, transmission fluid and engine coolant. A word about the last item. These engines had a reputation for eating head gaskets if the coolant was not changed regularly and a special Subaru coolant additive added at the prescribed intervals. Many sources I have read indicated that head gasket failure was inevitable due to poor design. Thankfully, this never happened to us in the 145,000 miles that we owned it. Repair items included wheel bearings and oil leaks.

The most memorable thing that happened was when Hurricane Sandy struck New Jersey in 2012. The day the storm was predicted to make landfall, I moved the car from where it was parked under an older oak tree to a space close to, but not underneath, a tall pine tree. That night, the storm arrived with a vengeance! There were sheets of torrential rain, high winds–and within ten minutes of the storm’s arrival, the loss of electrical power.

Twenty minutes later, we heard the beeping of the Subaru’s factory alarm system. We stared in shock and horror at the surreal sight outside of our window. We saw the eerie glow of the Subaru’s flashing parking lights underneath the branches and leaves of the pine tree that had fallen on top of the Forester! I immediately apologized to my wife, since I had decided to park the car in that spot–thinking that it would be out of the way of any falling trees! I immediately told her that she could have my car (next week’s COAL).

The next morning, we went outside to face the music. The photos above are exactly what we saw the first thing that morning. It did not look good. While I could not see any broken glass, it looked like the main portion of the pine tree had come cashing down on the roof of the car. We could not see the extent of the damage because it was obscured by tree branches and leaves.

New Jersey was in a state of emergency. We were without power for close to a week, gas was being rationed, trees were down everywhere, and many people were left homeless. Because of this situation, it took a few days to get anyone to remove the tree from our car. When the day finally came, we waited with bated breath as the layers of leaves, branches and the tree trunk were removed. When the last of the tree was removed, we were shocked and speechless when we saw the worst of the damage to our Subaru: a small dent in the roof and a few scratches on the roof rack. It was quite miraculous. The car was fine. We were driving it within minutes of its extraction from underneath the tree. I’m still amazed to this day!

The car served us faithfully for almost six years. I believe it stranded us only once, when the battery connections were frayed and needed replacement. When it hit the 144,000-mile mark, it needed about $2,000 worth of work. Two oxygen sensors, brake rotors and pads all around, exhaust system replacement and CV boots. Also, the second (expensive) timing belt change interval was looming just around the corner, and I was still afraid of the engine’s reputation for head gasket failure at higher mileage. In November 2014, we made the decision that it was time to move on.

These two cars were game changers. They were our first Japanese cars. They also ushered in an era of amazing vehicle reliability–a trend continued by our current vehicles, which you will read about next week.

98 Comments

The Honda Accord has a history of being the most dependable longest lasting car. Period. Only full sized pickups and pickup based SUVs are better.

I do not understand why anyone would knowingly buy a car proven to have defective head gaskets and that is purposely deigned to require frequent timing belt replacements as if that is a normal consumable part like a windshield wiper or tire. And to add insult to injury, the engine is an oddity unknown to most mechanics, and seemingly intentionally made difficult to work on.

90000 miles for a timing belt is hardly “frequent”. And a flat-four is the same configuration as a VW Beetle, so not really an oddity. Any good mechanic should be able to work on it, the internal combustion concept is the same as any other car and the ancillaries operate just like anything else.

Plenty of cars have their Achilles Heels. Some Subarus have head gasket issues (note that at 144k miles, his did NOT have the issue, he was merely concerned about the possibility), usually at relatively high milage. Some Chrysler minivans eat transmissions. Most of Fred’s purchases seem to have proven to be complete pieces of garbage. I may be incorrect but it seems that he has gotten more mileage and time out if these two than any of his previous vehicles. If nothing else, these two cars have been able to make it possible to budget for maintenance and repairs in a predictable fashion rather than the Russian roulette his others presented him with.

I think most minivans eat transmissions. Certainly Honda Odysseys have a horrible reputation that way.
Heavy vehicle using more-or-less the same drivetraon as a (lighter) car, plus some real packaging challenges.

“90000 miles for a timing belt is hardly “frequent”. And a flat-four is the same configuration as a VW Beetle, so not really an oddity. Any good mechanic should be able to work on it, the internal combustion concept is the same as any other car and the ancillaries operate just like anything else. ”

a flat 4 is an oddity. only subaru builds it. That makes it an oddity.

Mechanics are most efficient working on the same thing over and over. Would you hire a lawn mower mechanic to work on a yacht? They are just the same since the internal combustion concept is same. Either you have zero practical mechanical experience or you are a subaru owner in denial.

I don’t want to devolve into semantics but a flat engine is really the same as a 180 degree V. One crankshaft, pistons going in opposite directions. There is much less difference between a V6 and a flat 6 or flat 4 than there is between a lawnmower engine and a (presumably diesel) yacht engine. Just because only Subaru builds it CURRENTLY does not mean other flat fours don’t exist. And the concept of a flat 4 is the same as a flat 6, currently built by Subaru and Porsche, who is apparently poised to start building flat 4’s again as well. The Porsche engine is the greater oddity (rarity) based on production volumes, the Subaru is significantly more frequently found but there is no shortage of people out there that can work on one or both.

I agree that the best mechanic to work on a Subaru engine would probably be a Subaru specialist. The same way that ideally a Saab guy work on a Saab and a Honda guy work on a Honda and Chevy guy work an a Chevy. But I see no real reason why someone that only exclusively works on Chevy V-8’s would not be capable of replacing spark plugs, a timing belt, or head gaskets on a Subaru for example as long as he is open minded and intelligent enough to actually look at a manual before diving in. And vice versa.

Plenty of Subaru owners work on their own cars, despite most of them not being professional mechanics. I am an ex-Subaru owner, and am neither in denial nor do I have zero practical mechanical experience. I just give professional automotive mechanics a little more credit than some people do, I suppose.

A flat four works on the same principles as any other internal combustion engine. Or better yet think of it as a wide angle vee engine. Sahara flat engines are surprisingly easy to remove for head gasket repair. ii it was just under two hours to remove the engine. before our shop burned down (Dec 20) we did three of them in three months.

Couldn’t agree more about the accord. My sister has a 99 that she got I college that now has over 240,000 miles on it. Aside from a transmission it’s never really needed anything major in the ten years she’s had it. And she does NOT subscribe to regular maintenance intervals – that car is lucky to get an oil change once a year. I suspect that the tranny would have still lasted had it had some maintenance.

That said, even Honda is not without their faults. I do know plenty a folk who have had head gaskets done on a Subaru, and I know folks with 200k on their Subaru with only maintenance. It seems to be a very common thing, and what turned me off from buying them, but it’s like I said – something everything has.

You mention full size suv reliability – I’d counter that with the cam phasing plug spitting ford 5.4 triton. Every single one I’ve known be it expedition or navigator has had a terminal motor issue. Some F-150s too with the 5.4 or 3v 4.6. I’m glad I don’t have that motor.

Notice there are ZERO European vehicles on the list and only one Chrysler product. What this list does not account for is expensive scheduled routine maintenance procedures. Things like changing timing belts. What I see in common with every vehicle on the list is that they are all gas guzzlers save one. The Accord. They are also mostly rear drive body on frame designs. Even if there were any European vehicles on the list I would instantly discredit them because European vehicles are NOTORIOUS for expensive maintenance. My inclination would be to rate the Chevy Vortec/ecotec engine as the best engine on the list for durability because it is an OHV design. When I heard a few years ago Chevy was offering a straight six motor in the trailblazer, I got excited and hoped it was a Vortec-based engine with OHV and pushrods. Unfortunately it was not. I think Ford really screwed up when they discontinued the 300six…which had a gear driven cam by the way.

Regarding that gear-driven cam on the Ford 240/300 six: it’s a gear, but made out of fiber. Which means they inevitably fail. It’s ironic that you keep bringing that gear cam drive up, because it is the single weakest point on that engine; that fiber gear always gives out eventually. Ask me how I know.

I replaced mine with a steel gear; it’ll never break again, but it howls like a blower. Which is of course why they used the fiber gear.

I’ll take a chain cam drive over that damn fiber gear any day 🙂

Eric VanBuren

Posted March 1, 2015 at 4:42 PM

It is not like the chain drive cam shafts for the V8s from that era were any better they used a nylon cam gear that eventually wore out and the type of chain they used wasn’t that great either and like all chains they tend to continuously stretch over their lifetime. Now many of the OHC designs used a traditional style chain and metal cam gears, though of course they still exhibit stretch which is why makers like Mazda had multiple key ways in the cam gear that allowed you to compensate for the stretch.

Personally I love my gear drive in my SVs, They don’t have to whine like a blower it is all about precision. In fact the aftermarket gear drives for the SBC are intentionally designed to whine like a blower because some people consider that desirable.

In a similar vein the old hamtrack humming bird made the noise that it does because of cheap gears, the majority of starters in modern cars are gear reduction and they do not whine because they use higher precision gears.

Very interesting that the Subaru Legacy is AHEAD of several large trucks and SUV’s. Of course the list looks a bit flawed wince the GMC Sierra 1500 and the Chevrolet Silverado 1500 are basically the same unless I am missing something.

john

Posted March 1, 2015 at 4:53 PM

“Of course the list looks a bit flawed wince the GMC Sierra 1500 and the Chevrolet Silverado 1500 are basically the same unless I am missing something.”

Pure chance. Longevity of any vehicle, or person for that matter, it partly dumb luck.

This list is compiled by calculating the percent of each model with a quarter million miles or more on the original still running engine, IIRC. The source is there for you to check the methodology. They are not attempting to predict outcomes. They are purely reporting percentages of vehicle that have achieved the quarter million mile mark. If I had to pick one vehicle on that list to throw out, it would be the Subaru. In light of the high maintenance costs of owning one I am not impressed by any claims of durability.

This list honest to goodness surprises me. Particularly #’s 5, 17, and 19. 5 and 19 are my examples of the problems Ford had with the 5.4 and 3V Tritons, my only guess on why they’re there is due to the high purchase price – owners are going to repair them rather than scrap them. It’s unfortunate too as they’re excellent vehicles otherwise.

17 surprises me because, well, Explorers got the “Exploder” nickname for a reason. I can only surmise the above about them as well.

That said, the rest doesn’t surprise me at all – particularly #1. While Ford had issues with the 6L Powerstroke, it seems you can actually fix it (new head bolts the last I read) and the rest of them run just tons of mile without fail.

18 doesn’t surprise me, I’m probably contributing to that list having owned now three F-150’s with > 100,000 miles, and 2 with > 200,000 🙂

Jerseyfred

Posted March 1, 2015 at 6:03 PM

I’m somewhat surprised by 13

john

Posted March 1, 2015 at 6:39 PM

My understanding is that only the 2nd gen Explorer was a problem and then only the ones with both automatic transmissions and 4wheel drive. But that was a long time ago and I may not be remembering accurately. I was really impressed by the 3rd gen Explorer with V8 motor.

I don’t know anything about problem with 5.4 tritons other than spark plugs coming out with the aluminum threads from the head. I have an older 5.4 triton with zero mechanical problems so far. Plugs came out OK at 100k miles. it’s a 2valve sohc version.

Yeah, there is the question of blue book value of the vehicle skewing the decision to scrap a vehicle. But the engine is not the only thing that determines the longevity of a vehicle. If the carpet/upholstery decomposes and the floor panel rots out and all the little electric motors and servos powering the windows, locks and seat adjustments go kaput, nobody cares if the engine runs good.

Eric VanBuren

Posted March 1, 2015 at 8:15 PM

The spark plug issues with the modulars are not terminal by a long shot. Stripped out spark plug threads and a spark plug shell left in the engine are easily or relatively easily and relatively inexpensively corrected w/o engine disassembly.

The Cam Phaser issue is also not terminal. Now many times a shop will sell you a bill of goods and charge you an arm and a leg for the repair but that is a greedy person, not a terminal engine problem.

Also you’ll note this list does not state the years of the vehicles it is just based on mileage and many of the vehicles were built for many years and used different engines over the years so just because one or two of the engines have common problems does not mean that it affects all of the vehicles.

You mention the 6.0 and say it can be fixed well so can the 5.4 and it will be a lot less to fix the 5.4.

I checked the iSeeCars.com website and 99.9% of their listings come from dealerships rather than private parties. What does that mean? Dealers are way more likely to stock high mileage trucks than high mileage cars, because cheap work trucks are always in demand. Many of them were also probably fleet vehicles to begin with (the top two on the list are heavy duty pickups…) which means they’ve, more likely than not, accumulated lots of mileage in a short period. The site seems to have very few listings of vehicles older than ~2000 or so, which is roughly how old the average car would have to be to have reached 200k miles. By that point, most used car transactions do not happen on a dealer’s lot.

In other words, it’s nonsense. If you had actual data for all cars registered in the United States with >200k miles, I’m sure the list would look much different.

We did one of those 5.4 engines too. Came in with a bad sputter/miss. Scanner read o2 and catylist issues. A little investigation found exhaust manifolds leaking. The owner opted to replace both manifolds and all the cats. While removing the manifolds we noticed some major pitting in the heads.. we removed the manifolds and of course one stud in each head would not come out, off come the heads. We send them out to have the studs removed and the pitting machined, which was so bad that the shop wouldn’t touch it. Luckily Ford makes head gaskets and manifold gaskets to make these issues go away… Got the engine all back together and there where no leaks but it still had the miss. turned out to be cam phasers and timing chain guides that the tops just deci teg rated on. Replaced each of those and added new chain tensioners (fed by oil pressure. once running it still had a bog and miss but only every once and a while. We took it to Ford who told us we did what theyear would have done if given the go ahead and re flashed the ecm which did nothing So they changed those timing chain tensioners again to no avail. Ford washed their hands of it and charged us almost $2000. BUT Don is still driving the stupid thing bog/miss and all. He says when it gets bad he changes the oil and uses 15 40 weight. And he’s got more than 300k km on the piece of crap.

Actually the previous generation Accord(98-02) had a timing belt that had to be changed every 80,000 miles and on the 4cyl engines stuck the water pump inside with the timing belt(it was driven by the timing belt) meant that in the event the WP started going bad it ruined the timing belt. It was a very stupid design.

From what I have read, the Subaru head gasket issue seemed to be a bit over blown. the 2.5 is not a head gasket eater. Subaru used inferior head gaskets when the engine was put together. When it came time to replace the gaskets, if you bought the revised ones from Fel-Pro or Subaru along with new head bolts and torqued them down to the revised specs then you were good to go.

I have changed out head gaskets on Subarus before, the job really is not so bad.

That 2005 Accord should have lasted you 200,000 miles at the least. Honda makes a good engine and the engine in that car was timing chain driven(no more belts) and is easy to work on with hand tools. 2005 was the year they finally fixed the transmission issues that plagued the Accord, Oydessy, Acura TL since 1998

I was under the impression that you have to pull the engine to do the head gasket in those Subies. Most engine configurations you do not. That alone makes it a more difficult engine to service.
The HO configuration is great for air cooled engines with few accessories. Also for packaging and high performance (low centre of gravity). Other then that it is kind of a quirky layout that in modern guise is not very suited to the shade tree mechanic.
There are good reasons that big volume manufacturers usually go inline or V. I have several friends and co-workers that drive Subaru. They all spend big bucks on maintenance. Or they die.

The Subaru recommend procedure for replacing the head gaskets is to remove the engine. It can be done with the engine in the car and I have done a few that way. However I feel pulling the engine is the way to go, overall it is much easier and the better access ends up saving you time since the design of the Subaru means that the engine can be hanging on the hook very quickly.

I’ve probably had the most personal experience with this generation Accord, and it’s one of my favorite Accord generations due to its well roundedness. In first two years of my mom’s ownership of the 2004 Toyota Highlander, we had a recurring sound system problem, that required about 7 or 8 trips to the dealership in that period and ended up replacing many things from the radio to CD changer to speakers, and ultimately the rear amplifiers – the true culprit.

Boch Toyota and Honda were right next to each other, and we frequently received this generation Accord as a loaner. It was comfortable, spacious, had a pleasant rev to its engine, premium interior for its class, and the styling was attractive and somewhat sporty. This car and its qualities always stuck in my mind, and made me confident in my decision to purchase my second generation TSX, which is based on the Euro Accord, and embodies the same great qualities of this car, in a marginally smaller package.

The succeeding 2008-12 Accord was not a horrible car, but it got too big and cost-cutting was evident in places. Thankfully Honda has corrected these issues with the 2013-present Accord, and along with all the safety features and technology, it’s a very attractive option. Sometimes I even think about leasing one as a second car to preserve the TSX a bit better, if I ever make headway in my career of course.

Fred, one thing I have been curious about, and have only sometimes been able to piece together, is the age of your vehicles upon acquisition.

A co-worker has an Accord of the generation you had. It’s got about 180,000 miles on it and it’s V6 powered. The only obvious problem with it is the black paint on the roof between the top of the windshield and the moonroof is rapidly deteriorating. He kept it despite his wife buying a newer Accord; he’s had it since new and hates to part with it, although it would make a person a great car.

Fred, I have to tell you – reading about your adventures has been fun but very painful all at the same time. It’s takes a really stout constitution to admit to the number of problems you have experienced, suffered, been subject to, endured, etc.

It’s good to hear about your having turned a corner into something you can rely upon. Knowing you have your family in something reliable is much more valuable than money.

JF your opening comment is why I have a little rusted, not dented, needing paint 57 Chevy parked at my house. I quit driving it after a couple years as my DD.

John I think one would have to ignore a slew of V6 head gasket and grenaded transmissions during the nineties to come to that conclusion about the Honda Accord. They got better. They had to but in my family they kept the stigma. Fooled a lot of us.

Steve Lang has a list of the frequency of cars turned in and still working satisfactorily with over 300k. Don’t remember if the Honda Accord is on it but Toyotas and full size trucks do quite well. Chase him down on facebook. The data is revealing or, at least, it was to me.

*V6. It’s only the V6 that has issues in the Accords. The 4-cyl models are positively bulletproof. And while I don’t have numbers in front of me I’m going to assume that well more than 50% of ’em are 4 cylinder models. The rule with Hondas is don’t get one with more than 4 cylinders and you’re golden.

*Exceptions to this list would be some of the early V6 models like the 1st and 2nd gen Legend.

Jerseyfred: I came very close with my guess of this week’s COAL. You did not lease a grey on grey Camry, but you bought a grey on grey Accord! Granted, it was a used one, but CERTIFIED!!!!! Have you lost all sense of adventure?

You are no longer here for the car, the car is here for you. With the Accord you were no longer worried about turning the key and go where you needed to go. I feel similar about the Toyota based Pontiac Vibe – in contrast to the Ford Windstar. Even though the Windstar did rather well, the horror stories of failing transmissions, rusted out sub frames and braking rear axles, failing ABS controller and a host of minor electrical gremlins were undermining my confidence (check safercar.gov). The Vibe is only 2 years younger but there is not a speck of rust. I am driving more miles than I expected and I do it worry free. And with 28.5 mpg it is affordable, if not cheap.

I considered a Subaru as well. However, the higher fuel consumption and maintenance cost turned me away. But I liked the sound of the boxer engine, just because it is different.

“I considered a Subaru as well. However, the higher fuel consumption and maintenance cost turned me away. But I liked the sound of the boxer engine, just because it is different.”

Before I was old enough to drive I read everything I could find about cars. I rode motorcycles. I worked on motorcycles. I drove my buddy’s older brothers’ cars. I drove my parents’ station wagon on my paper route on the weekends before the sun came up. I pestered my dad with questions so close together I did not breath between questions nor wait for his complete answer whenever he popped the hood of the family station wagon. Cars and motorcycles and engines were my entire purpose for existing.

At one point I got tired of my first car burning fuel at the rate of 6MPG(a hotrodded 69 newport 2door 440 4bbl) and bought a 71beetle as my second car. I was probably the only teenager in my entire school and in my entire extensive extended family to ever own two running cars and two running motorcycles simultaneously. My parents were saints for letting me monopolize so much garage and driveway space and my neighbors were not so friendly.

You see, before I was actually a car owner, I had decided through extensive research that the most advanced and superior car ever to be built was a tie between two cars…a porsche 914/6 and a porsche 911 slantnose targa turbo. Heavenly bliss to me at that time wouldve been a turbo and whale tale spoiler on the back of a 914/6. Maybe a slantnose of some kind on it as well.

So naturally I was drawn to a 71 superbeetle for my second car.

Here’s the thing…specs on a piece of paper are not real life.

Let me elaborate as to the extent of my delusions. When I was not yet old enough to drive, I had a never-before-married uncle with a passion for cars and motorcycles. He liked to live in small high rise apartments and keep his toys spread around between relatives with farms and large homes. He typically kept one of his toys at my parents’ place. He started out keeping a 914 porsche at my house. then he got rid of it and exchanged it for a v12 xke jaguar convertible. Then he got rid of that for a similar year corvette big block.

I remember asking him why he did not want the porsche 914 and he said it was a basket case of a car. never ending problems, poor handling, and poor performance…useless in hot or cold weather. I was in denial. I decided he was just doing it wrong. obviously unscrupulous underskilled maintenance mechanics, and only 4 cylinders were his downfall. If he knew anything about cars he would’ve upgraded that 914 to 6 cylinders and maybe a turbo. That was my expert teenage opinion.

All I care to know about subarus is that they have a boxer 4 engine and they have high maintenance costs FOR PLANNED MAINTENANCE, and have a high rate of unplanned maintenance.

They appear to have the exact drivetrain layout of a Beetle except on the front wheels. As such they have the engine ENTIRELY in front of the front wheels. That is not sensible to me. The entire car is not sensible to me. People who continue to praise the subaru are not sensible to me.

Seriously. The mid 1990’s versions with the 1.8L and 2.2L engines were absolutely dead-reliable. No issues. But with the advent of the 2.5L in late 1990’s and into the early 2000’s it all went down-hill fast. That timeframe was also when you hear about poor paint, and cost cutting in the interior department.

I happen to like Subarus. I think they’ve turned a corner over the past 2-3 years. True, there are stories online about oil consumption, but what do you expect when you run such a thin oil anymore?

One day when my ’93 impreza goes to the crusher in the sky, I will probably not replace it with another subaru – simply because I don’t want the added expense of AWD. If they started making no-frills, FWD. “Brighton” versions like in the past, I’d be all over it, sensibilities or not!

The old EA engines were some of the most durable 4cly engines of the time, able to do more than 200K even with abuse. Of course you had to to the timing belts every 45K and they would need at least one set of wheel bearings and probably a couple of sets of axles at least once the wholesale cost of an “reman” axle dropped to $30-$40 ea and the quality followed..

Right on, Fred! It’s funny how I came to the exact same conclusion after a bad car experience – a grey Honda. So far not without some rocks, but the premium for a car with a warranty already paid for itself. I also don’t blame you at all for trading it off after 100,000 miles duento your past experience. I’m sure it would have lasted you longer, but after all that why roll the dice?

I understand the need for dependable transportation. Mine will also have to get at least 30 MPH highway. I already have a generic FWD 4 door sedan, with 221,000 miles on it (and it’s a Chevy) but I don’t want another. Still, it has to be practical . I wouldn’t mind having that Subaru, but it costs too much, and the gas mileage is absolutely awful. I could get a standard cab shortbed Chevy Silverado with the 4.3L V6 and automatic if I could afford that kind of mileage. And despite the fact that it is a sedan, the Grand Marquis also gets the same mpg. So does the little PT Cruiser. I don’t understand why there is a 6 mpg difference between the PT Cruiser and the HHR.

I would not be concerned about a timing belt, I have changed a zillion of them. I have seen very few fail. Yes, some of them are very hard to get to. The one in the PT Cruiser is a nightmare. That, plus the lousy gas mileage puts the PT out of consideration. And unfortunately, the gas mileage and head gasket problems (VW never had head gasket problems like that, despite the fact that the heads were held on by the same studs that held the cylinders on) also puts Subaru off the list. Subaru has a design problem they should be able to fix. Honda’s Goldwing flat four doesn’t have that problem. I rode a 1980 GL1100 for almost 17 years, and it was stone reliable.

The waterboxer Vanagon engine also had head gasket failures. Seem like watercooled flat fours in general have problems in this area. The air cooled engines of around 67-72 era had problems with studs pulling out of the case which loosened the heads. This was solved with a redesign involving thinner studs and stronger engine cases.

The studs pulling out of the cases problem could be solved with case savers. They converted the aluminum threads to steel. I’m not familiar with the waterboxer engines, I’ve never even seen one. VW engines could be built strong enough to run 10 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Of course not everybody running times like that used stock VW engines. You could get special billet engines, made especially for racing, that used the basic VW design. They could not be used on the street because they had no provisions for cooling.

I wonder if it has to do with the position of the cylinders. My Goldwing always started up with a puff of smoke if it had been left overnight on the sidestand. Oil would leak past the rings on the low side and into the cylinders. Still, it seems like the head gasket leak problem could be solved with modern engineering/materials.

Where did you get the idea that you have to take the engine out to replace the timing belt on a Subaru?

We get it, for some reason you hate Subarus. Most cars with timing belts have the same or similar change interval. There is nothing particularly complicated about a timing belt replacement if you take your time, study the instructions and make sure you have the right tools and an appropriate space. It’s certainly easier (and usually cheaper) than changing a transmission or replacing the lower intake manifold on a GM car/truck, at least for the DIY’er without a lift and extra arms at the ready.

Well, I learned something new today and it makes me rather angry to learn this:

“These engines had a reputation for eating head gaskets IF THE COOLANT WAS NOT CHANGED REGULARLY AND A SPECIAL SUBARU COOLANT ADDITIVE ADDED AT THE PRESCRIBED INTERVALS.” (emphasis mine)

We owned two 2.5-equipped Subies and both had had head gaskets replaced. The first one, a ’98 Legacy Outback, needed the repair within six months of our purchase, and it was one of those times, maybe the only time – when purchasing an extended warranty paid off. We only paid the deductible and a couple other small things not covered.

The second one, an ’05 Outback, was bought in the summer of 2009 from Day Subaru, West Liberty Ave. in the Dormont section of Pittsburgh.

It was my wife’s car; the husband of one of her good friends was the dealership’s general manager at the time and she’d liked the ’98. We thought we’d done our homework when we’d become informed that “2003-newer models weren’t experiencing troubles”.

So we plunked down the cash and drove away. It was a great car and the buying experience was cordial…and for the first time in our car-buying history, the dealership did ALL maintenance/repairs.

Including head gaskets at 110,000 miles along with the obligatory timing belt (and while you’re in there replace the water pump, just because?)

Knowing what I’ve learned this morning. I’d like to think a Day Subaru mechanic or the service writer/manager recommending frequent coolant changes or their “special Subaru coolant additive added at the prescribed intervals”.

But I don’t remember any such recommendation. Maybe they did and my wife or I forgot, but I doubt it. Believe me we’d have followed that recommendation since 30,000 miles/year is pretty much normal for any of my wife’s cars. We were hoping to keep the Outback 5-7 years, then maybe get an XV Crosstrek.

But while sitting on Day’s rack one summer day – being informed the car needed $1400 in suspension/brake repairs (which ended up being performed by a local mechanic for less than 1/2 the price!), I saw that insidious black residue coming from the passenger’s side head gasket, and knew it wasn’t leftover Permatex from the 110,000-mile head gasket repair.

“You’re gonna need head gaskets again. Just a matter of time, and you’ve got some time on these.”

As we paid for the oil change and whatever else was the original reason for bringing the car in that day, I inquired whether Subaru had ever updated the design of their 2.5 head gaskets. The answer was: “they all leak. Only the new design ones that came out in 2010 are better.”

Since keeping our cars to 250,000-300,000 miles is the family goal, we knew what we were in for in another year or so, and apparently it was part of the love that makes a Subaru, a Subaru. I came away wondering why Day Subaru didn’t use Fel-Pro or some other aftermarket or factory-improved replacement part. Or is there an engine design flaw that kills head gaskets no matter where they came from?

To learn today that these head gasket woes were all PREVENTABLE is infuriating to say the least.

Today she’s driving – and we’re loving – a 2011 Chevy Equinox LTZ. It had one repair this year – the throttle control, which the dealership, Colussy in Bridgeville PA, replaced under warranty. Cost: zero.

And at least GM’s past gasket foibles are WELL known and once cured, cured for good if you use “global” anti-freeze. My ’97 4.3 Blazer (now with 303,000 miles) is proof of that.

Wife just reminded me “we did a lot of research on that” before buying the ’05 Outback in 2009.

Oh well, Fred, I’ve enjoyed your COAL series even as feeling the grief and heartbreak over the GMC Suburban and other choices reminds me of a few bad deals in our family past. I think all “car guys” have a few of those. Hope your automotive troubles are behind you as I write this.

You – in fact, probably most of us – have lived Jack Baruth’s outstanding and thoughtful story on Paul’s old stomping grounds, The Truth About Cars.

I certainly have. Accounts for why there are five vehicles in my driveway.

There are two different Subaru head gasket problems. Niether will be prevented by more frequent than normal changing of the coolant. It is an engine and gasket design issue not a corrosion problem.

One of the problems is an external leak, that is the one that you can see at the head to block interface. Those engines are the ones that need stop leak added every time you change the coolant. The stop leak does not deplete or wear out, so frequent changes of the coolant often are often the root of the problem. “Power flushing the system will often cause a leak to appear or re-appear as it can dislodge the stop leak that is doing its job. If a leak does develop and is found before it gets excessive a dose of stop leak will fix the problem most of the time. The special Subaru coolant “conditioner” is nothing more than stop leak with a very high price tag.

The other head gasket issue found on earlier versions of the 2.5 is an internal leak, from the cooling system to the cylinder. Stop leak will not fix this problem so it is not recommended to put stop leak in those engines.

The fact is that Subaru did change the design but just moved the potential leak point from to the cylinder to externally and then by retroactively recommending the stop leak they greatly reduced the likelihood of problems and made the problem more apparent since it now leaves puddles when there is a leak rather than pumping it out the tail pipe as vapor.

Bless your heart. My Sable just puked up another round of p/s fluid on a long trip after the new pump suddenly sounded like a chainsaw. The part is under warranty but it’s another few damn days of having that heap in dry dock.

The plain Hondas suddenly sound very good to me. No surprises. Great resale. I’ve purchased cars for emotional reasons for years. BUT at this point I would be so happy to have something that gets me from point a to point b with the least amount of worry.

I drove my boss’s Park Avenue the other day and remembered how much I like those big old boats.

The most rational thing I’ve done in car buying is to stay away from the payment game. I have a school loan I want GONE and even by keeping up with general maintenance I have come out on top each time.

When the loan is gone, I’m treating myself to something snazzy.

Chris M.

Posted March 5, 2015 at 5:37 PM

Staying away from payments is nice. We couldn’t really avoid one between my wife and I but I’m pretty firmly against ever having two car payments at the same time. Of course, this means that I’m stuck driving my old Crown Vic for another 3 years…not anyone’s idea of exciting and a car that I didn’t pick out. But considering it was given to me for free and has cost a grand total of about $1000 in maintenance over the two years I’ve had it–can’t really beat that and “I’d like something more exciting” is hardly a justification for spending money when we have other expenses to consider.

Lee, the Honda V6 with head gasket issues you’re referring to is the C-series found in the Legend and early 3.2TL. The J-series V6 has never had those issues but yes, some had the automatic issues due to lack of proper cooling. I sold my 98 3.2TL with 140k miles because of head gasket fears, which sometimes I regret but I got a lot of money from it due to condition sand brand equity. Ironically we also had an 07 Outback at the time that just puked coolant at 36k miles but head gaskets were covered under warranty.

You just can’t go wrong with the K-series 4 found in pretty most Accords, CRVs, and TSXs. It’s a proper big-bore 4 that sounds so sweet when really pushed…something Paul and I enjoyed discussing. My wife’s 12 Accord (replaced both Acura and Outback since I have a company vehicle now) has that motor (190hp version) and it swings that tach needle with vigor and really scoots the big sedan through the twisty 2 lanes of Idaho and Oregon!

I have always had a similar car buying philosophy. Don’t spend more than 3-4 k on a car cuz you can get a reliable sedan that’ll give you 100k miles trouble free from a 3k-4k car. This has led me into gm w bodies and panthers (current ride) and while this has held true for me I can see it won’t for much longer. The fact that these were fleet cars that made all used versions of these cars dirt cheap and when they go so will the reliable $3k sedan.

“Don’t spend more than 3-4 k on a car cuz you can get a reliable sedan that’ll give you 100k miles trouble free from a 3k-4k car.”

This was excellent philosophy 25 years ago.

some things have changed since then. most obviously is the value of the dollar has declined and the price of cars has gone up.

Then there is the problem of “progress”. Cars are more complex and the average person is less capable of doing everything himself in terms of repairs and diagnostics. 25 years ago you did not have airbags, antilock brakes, traction control, and electronic multiport fuel injection. I still drove vehicles with carburetors, manual steering, manual windows, and stickshifts throughout the 90s.

I do not count on my skills to keep a 3thousand dollar car dead reliable to do 150miles a day 365 days a year as a work commuter that will never ever give me an attendance point on my work record. I’m not that good and cars are not that good at that price range.

That Accord would have easily gone 200,000 miles with any basic maintenance, Fred.

You’ve now described why so many drivers have ditched American cars: a painless, pleasant experience. There is nothing wrong with this. We do not need to involve ourselves in auto-masocism due to having to adhere to some else’s half baked ideology. Buy what works for you. Sounds like the Accord hit all the Honda buttons. Clever design, well made, fun to drive, cheap to run and as reliable as your fridge.

LOL! I have been enjoying your long tales of woe. I think that’s why my family, after a succession of $2000 heaps in the mid to late ’80’s, finally gave up on used cars and bought new ones, even if it stretched the budget. I gave up on used cars after a couple of – pretty good cars but I didn’t have the time or money to put into fixing them and neither did I have a good mechanic at the time, and bought a 1996 Olds Ciera in college. I must have been the ONLY 20 year old who bought a new Ciera. Mom is still driving it . . . Dad is still driving the Cutlass Supreme he bought new in 1995.

People sometimes think they save money buying a used car but I figure it this way. An inexpensive, but durable new car will cost about $25K and I would expect it, with average use, to last about 12 years. That averages out to about 2K a year, plus tyres, maintenance, etc, which you would be buying no matter used or new. Then I would expect after about year 8 you might spend another $500-1000/year on repairs. That costs about the same as for a $2000 beater that needs to be replaced every year, or needs major expensive work every year, provided you drive the new car into the ground.

I also do not get the Caravan hate; mine is an ’06 bought new with 200K on it and never a transmission problem, or any other major problem. Part of the reason I bought it is that I regularly saw Caravans with way over 250K. I do know that they did have a propensity to eat transmissions but I think when you’re on your third or fourth, I would begin to question the quality of the installation.

While buying a new car allows you to escape any hidden issues a seller of a used car might “forget” to disclose but a 1 or 2 year old car a dealership is selling is a pretty good buy(especially if it is manufacture certified)

For example, in 2013 I bought a used 2012 Ford Ford Fiesta hatch for $14,500 with all fees and taxes included from a dealership. The car was the top of the line Fiesta with sunroof and all the toys except for auto trans (I wanted a manual trans car) the car had less then 8000 miles on it and it was traded in for a truck(the former owner decided to start his own business and bought a Ford F150.

The car was still under bumper to bumper and powertrain warranties. A print out of the original window sticker showed the car had a window sticker of $18,823. So I saved a butt ton of money buying used over new.

If you are buying a used private seller car, you need to do your homework. Unless it is a 20+ year old car that I want as a project type car(and am buying it with full knowledge that it will need work and I need to turn wrenches) then I will not buy a car without a MD inspection certificate.

I paid with taxes and tags less then $3000 for my current 1997 Lesabre daily driver and it is a good car(I turn my own wrenches so I am not at the mercy of a tech and have to pony up the $$$) I do think I will be doing some suspension work and replacing a stuck open thermostat( takes forever to get heat and the temp gauge never gets to 200 degrees even after a long drive) but I will wait till spring for those.

Massive depreciation and tried and true designs usually return what’s the best about buying a senior special full size sedan, like the LeSabre ( usually with lower than average miles too ) keeping a very tight eye on the mechanical condition is important too. But it takes a lot of knowledge to know how to keep a tight eye. My driving range is roughly 45k miles a year, split on two cars for snow/clear roads, it proves rather trouble free for me with both 20+yo cars. Well built cars with proper maintaining done with reasonable luck ( not taken out by busy traffic… ) can still do the job like how they used to decades ago. ( thus, eliminating chances of many ’70s cars as a practical car, they are too slow to keep up with the traffic )

Only one comment about this caught my eye…since when can’t 70s cars keep up with traffic??? Do you live on the Autobahn?

Sure, a 1977 GM or Ford full size is not ideal for cruising at 90 since it typically has between 150-200 hp. But you can very comfortably cruise between 55-75. Which is right around the speed limit where I live.

Leon

Posted March 2, 2015 at 1:48 PM

There were several cars cars from the 1970’s that cannot keep up with traffic or the sustained high speed driving needed to hang out on the highway. Cars such the economy car class (Omni, Pinto, Chevette etc)

Jerseyfred

Posted March 2, 2015 at 2:08 PM

I can think of more cars from the 80’s that would have difficulty keeping up with modern interstate traffic. Back in the day cruising speed was 55-60. Today it is more 70-80.

The 3.8 engine in the rear drive G bodies
Anything with the Iron Duke
Early four cylinder J cars
Renault Alliance
Early Hyundai Excel
Early Ford Tempo
Early Ford Escort

Just to name a few. These cars/engines could probably hit 70-80 but would shake, rattle, and roll to do it. Also sustaining that speed is another story.

I think more cars from the 70’s even in the economy class could be had with a V8 (think Gremlin and Nova). The same cannot be said about 80’s econoboxes. Also the 80’s Cadillac V8s were particularly anemic

orangechallenger

Posted March 2, 2015 at 8:58 PM

Sigh*

All Chrysler F-Body and M-Body with 6 cylinders ( last available in 1983 ) is not ideal on modern interstate. It will do fine at 55, or 60, even 65, but the wind noise and vague handling ( responsible by transverse-mounted torsion-bar front suspension) makes it not practical to drive on a daily basis. 90hp doesn’t help neither. With optional 318 V8, it still doesn’t fix the wind noise and handling. It’s a bit stressful to drive compared to modern ( ’90s or later ) larger cars.

A lot of cars from ’70s and ’80s don’t cruise better than the pricy and luxurious M-Body Fifth Avenue ( But it’s improved over F-Body indeed ) further limiting the choice.

The situation gets so much worse in some areas where I spotted ’90s Tbird and Olds Aurora roaring over 120mph.

So I reserve my old car in remote countryside as traffic is much slower in general there( including a Chrysler R-Body cruising at 55 on interstate ) and more friendly.

Orrin

Posted March 3, 2015 at 7:46 AM

I can see it being tough in the cars you describe but I’ve driven (or driven in). I have driven a Ford 302 V8, Olds 307 V8, and Buick 350 V8. All between 140-160 HP. Acceleration was never neck-snapping but once I got those cars up to 65 or 75 they could cruise all day. Same for my parents’ ’84 Civic.

While I agree, tough for some cars, “many” seems a stretch to me.

orangechallenger

Posted March 3, 2015 at 12:01 PM

It’s a privilege being able to cruise around 65-70 nowadays in many areas. 75 will do fine in winter but in summer it struggles to keep up. On my traveling from Detroit metro to North Michigan, I have to keep staying away from interstate in my ’78 Volare, as 65 is too dangerous among the busy crowded traffic. I could go back to interstate after passing Saginaw on my way to north, as traffic significantly slows down since there.

In my ’94 Lincoln Mark VIII, despite the car can effortlessly cruise at 90-100mph, as my single trip is 220 miles, I want to achieve higher MPG. It’s barely acceptable to drive at 75 from Detroit to Flint until Saginaw in summer time ( winter could be slower though ) but I still have to stay at far right lane. However, driving at 75 appears to be very fast in North Michigan, as I have to switch off the cruise control and brake so I wouldn’t pass several police cars with lights and sirens on around Grayling one time.

I stick at 70 in my ’95 LeSabre winter car because that’s the best comfortable speed I can cruise, and a roaming van near missed me last week around Clarkston, Mi. Maybe he never expects someone would cruise at 70.

Chris M.

Posted March 5, 2015 at 5:43 PM

Wow. People must drive like maniacs in Michigan. On the interstates I traverse regularly, speed limits range from 55 to 70, and even in the 70 zones (which are generally out in the country) flow of traffic tends to be about 75. Sure, you see folks crusing past at 80 to 90 MPH, but they’re the exceptions, not the rule.

And about those 3.8 G-bodies–I had one for a couple of years, and while it was certainly slow, and didn’t really like to go over about 70, it would cruise obediently at 65-70 once it took its time to get there. Merging could be a bit nerve-wracking but it was hardly undriveable on the highway.

One thing I have learned about cars, if you have one that’s reliable and treats you well, drive it into the ground. I am kind of an extreme example of this since any I had less then a decade is a newbie. This latest COAL episode shows the car repair issues are looking up. You were way overdue for some better automotive experiences.

Oh man, my car is now a Curbside Classic! Jerseyfred’s take on his 2005 Accord is practically the same as my thoughts on the 4-cylinder 2003 Accord LX I’ve been driving since new. At 145K miles and 12 years of ownership, only the driver’s side door lock actuator and the rear speakers have malfunctioned. I was able to replace these items myself, and I’ve only taken my Accord to the dealer for routine maintenance items like oil changes, transmission fluid changes and brake pad replacements. I’m always on the lookout for a replacement but with the insides of newer cars feeling more claustrophobic due to rising belt lines, trunk heights and lower roofs, I think I’m going to keep the Accord for a while. The 2.4 four pulls like a V6, all buttons are within easy reach, the center cupholders are probably the best I’ve seen in any car and the large speedometer is placed front center with crisp fonts and is backlit in white, not green, amber or blue. About the only shortcomings I can think of compared to newer cars are middling fuel economy, a lack of a USB outlet and a rather mediocre sound system. It’s been like a faithful soldier and has treated me pretty well, and I’d be loathe to sell it.

I think it’s awesome that you had to cut a Subaru Forester out of a tree!

I wrote this in a signature line on another forum I belong to. It looks as though JF has reached the point where he can say this along with me. Most others can too I’m sure.
“Sometimes I get nostalgic for the days when I drove a car that would double in value
every time I filled the gas tank. Other times not so much.”

I had something similar happen to my Forester during Hurricane Sandy, too. I parked it near a large tree, then had second thoughts. After already locking the car and walking away, I came back and moved it to the opposite side of the street, just in case. In the morning, that tree was down, with two cars crushed under it. My car across the street was safe, with just some minor scratches.

I owned three used Foresters in succession, a ’99, a ’00 and a ’01. I like to keep my cars for a long time and I got over 180k – 200K miles out of each Forester, and all were very reliable – but not exactly trouble-free. EVERY ONE had the head gasket issue at some point. Plus constant inspection headaches due to the CEL always being on because of one of a myriad issues with o2 censors, catalytic converters, etc. Plus wheel bearings, suspension issues, brake sensors failing, etc., etc. By the time these cars hit about 12 years of age and 180K miles, there is always several thousand dollars of needed repairs with the cost exceeding the value of the car, no matter how well you maintain it. I eventually decided that unless one can be found with under 100K on it and the head gaskets already done with a receipt to prove it, it’s just not worth it anymore. Some cars are meant to go over 200K with no major issues (like my ’01 Corolla), but not a Forester.

This sounds very familiar. I just had a therapy session with a good friend this past weekend regarding his 2008 Subaru Forester. With just 76K on the clock he has had the following start to go bad on his car-
1) Rear main seal blew oil all over his driveway after returning home from work
2) Motor pulled to replace rear main seal. Mechanic also discovered both head gaskets were seeping and highly recommended replacing the head gaskets. The bill $2500
3) Front passenger wheel bearing at 77K
4) Driver’s side wheel bearing at 80K
5) Cel light illuminated -bad catalytic converter- he didn’t say how much this was and just shook his head
6) Latest issue with 82k miles is a leaky sunroof and several annoying rattles in the cargo area.

For a car he payed good money for he is not a happy camper and will probably not purchase another Subaru product

That catalytic converter should be covered by the dealer under the emissions warranty (8yrs, 80k miles for non-CA, longer in CA). Hopefully his mechanic advised him of that. If not, I’d get a second opinion from another mechanic. My pet peeve is mechanics (especially marque specialists) that do not advise of items that would be covered by your regular warranties and instead try to make a buck off you. The relatively small amount of lost work is more than made up by the tremendous goodwill you just generated by saving your customer a lot of money.

$2500 to replace head gaskets on a Subaru seems excessive, especially with the engine already out and on the bench. There are several mechanics on this thread, I’d be interested in hearing a second (more professional) opinion, I’m no expert.

Well I’m assuming that ~$2500 is including the oil leak which is probably really the oil separator plate and not the seal. However by the time you start adding up all the parts that you “might as well do while you are in there” and some sales tax, (almost 10% in my area) and I can see the bill nearing $2500 at some shops. Not saying there aren’t those that would do it cheaper and of course the prevailing labor rates and sales tax varies greatly by location.

As we discussed in last week’s post, with the 120 mile commute, the need for a newish car was inevitable. I don’t think for one minute that your preferences (except insisting on super-cheap, but I understand why you did that too) in terms of big old iron were misguided per se. It’s just they’ve stopped making them, and so the newest ones are increasingly old. Based on the mileage you put on these two, it’s easy to see that your lifestyle would be hard on any car.

I’m glad you’ve found a way to work around it and find something that isn’t a nightmare. Who knows, with the money you’ll save on gas, maintenance, and overall irritation, you may find yourself in a position to buy a really nice, pristine, big ol’ V8 powered sled that you can simply enjoy at leisure, rather than have to depend upon daily, as a second, weekend car.

Do you have to upgrade to the “Outback” to get Subaru’s legendary piston slap? Also, isn’t it rather irresponsible driving an Accord of this vintage, especially as a family car, due to the faulty/lethal/unrepairable airbags (grenade launchers)?

My Forester’s engine did make some noise at startup (piston slap?) but I’ve read and been told that the noise was “cosmetic” only.

Please read the post again…I no longer have either of these cars. The Accord was traded in long before any indication of a recall occured. I hope that you are not accusing me of being irresponsible with my family!

I’m not sure how long you have been a reader on this site, but my article is part of the COAL (Cars of a Lifetme Series). It is not meat as an objective car review that you read on Consumer Reports or even other articles on this site meant to be reviews or to impart information regarding an automotive issue. For example, on this site, you will find an analysis of the Audi 5000 sudden acceleration recalls of the 1980’s. The COAL series is not meat to do that. It is more an autobiography of the author told from the vantage pont of the car he or she was driving at the time. In my case, it reflects a time of reflection, growth and learning how to buy reliable cars. If you look at my other COALs you will find cars that have reputations for excellent reliabilty like the GMC Suburban and Ford Crown Victoria but did not turn out to be so reliable in my case. The purpose is not to write a consumer automotive review but to discuss what my situation/frame of mind was at the time and how my automotive choices reflected this and accompanied me through that part of my life.

If you are looking for a consumer automotive review, the COAL series is not what you should be reading.

Regarding the Takata airbags, if every 2005 Accord was seriously suspect of potentially killing it’s occupants then there would be none on the road due to mandatory recall/seizure. Read through the Takata issue carefully.

Meanwhile, Accords rock. If only they made an LX with a power seat and a sunroof.

At least it appears that Honda is right there getting in front of the issue, recalling more cars that its supplier wanted them to, dumping the supplier and trying to find new sources. In stark contrast to GM and its ongoing issue regarding the airbags not even going off in Cobalts etc. and then replacing the part with another part from the same supplier and trying to sweep it all under the rug. As I just saw, Honda’s CEO is resigning, in part due to this. I haven’t seen anyone at any domestic automaker resign or otherwise clearly take responsibility for anything without being forced to, especially for a bad part supplied from an outside source. I’m sure you are aware that it isn’t just Hondas in this case, there are about a dozen manufacturers involved, including all of the Big 3. It also appears that the main issue affects cars in high humidity/high temp states. NJ is not considered one of these but I’m sure Fred’s old car (that he has since sold) is on the list of affected vehicles.

I do not doubt that Honda has good intentions. Sadly, good intentions do not reduce the risk that these dangerous cars pose to their drivers, passengers and others on the roadways. Bringing GM into it is similar to a child saying “the other kids do it too”.

No, merely explaining that there are two ways to handle an issue. Also, there is nothing wrong with a 2005 Accord AS LONG AS the recall is performed and the defective parts are replaced. They are hardly “unrepairable” as you stated above. The way you posted made it appear that the cars are a menace and the only way to solve it is to scrap them. My apologies if I misread that.

There was another fatality in a 2002 Accord last month. Sadly, that car was actually recalled three years ago to have the airbags replaced but nobody ever took it in to get it the repair performed. Apparently it was then sold to this current owner who A) apparently didn’t check for open recalls – free at any dealer and B) was unlucky enough to buy from someone who didn’t check either before selling the car.

I know I am partial to Honda, but the Accords I have owned over the years have been phenomenal vehicles. No car is perfect, but if you want safe, stylish, comfortable, economical transportation that holds its value and drives great to boot, then look no further than an Accord.

Very late to the comment party here, but Fred, I’m glad to read about some vehicles that actually served you well without incurring expensive repair bills or replacements before their time! Echoing Orrin’s post above, the B-body wagons were not poor choices per se and actually performed quite well given their age, but cars that old are not going to be great choices for someone with your considerable commute. I daily drive a ’97 Crown Vic but my commute to work round-trip is around 25 miles per day (and I drove my wife’s car frequently last year when she was in school), and it rarely gets pressed into service for long trips, so in the two years I’ve had it I think I’ve put a total of about 9,000 miles on it. Your observation of 40,000 miles on the Accord in one year amazes me–and is a very good reason why you should be in newer, more reliable vehicles such as these. As others have observed, you really can’t go wrong with a 4-cylinder Honda.

On the Subaru–you may have gotten lucky to escape any head gasket work. Folks who own Subarus tend to be fiercely loyal to them, which was one of the reasons I’ve been considering a Legacy GT Wagon when the time comes for a newer car for me (hopefully a few years away) but the commentary has been divided to say the least! Maybe Subarus are one of those things to steer clear of on the used market (the fact that you got yours from a family member, presumably for a great deal, makes it an exception to the rule).