I'd prefer to play it a little more straight-forward by c/r-ing the flop instead of your line (if only to balance the times I do this with a draw), but it's fine.

Flop bet seems a little weak. Maybe bet slightly more than half pot instead?
Turn check-raise is a little strong. Making that a bit smaller (1.70$-1.80$ or so) leaves a better sized river bet, imo.
But again, it's fine.

#3

27th April 2016, 8:26 PM

c9h13no3 [8,612]

How did you get a check/raise in, but still fail to get your stack in? Not getting all in with your big hands is a huge leak.

#4

27th April 2016, 8:45 PM

6bet me [835]

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: NLHE

Flop: Either check-call or check-raise. Don't donk out.Turn: As played, I like the check-raise here.River: You should be betting at least 80% pot here, preferably closer to 100% pot. Your aim should be to get as much value as possible from AK and AA. You should even consider an overbet shove in this spot (the villain might be willing to call a shove under the impression that you just have a busted flush draw).

#5

27th April 2016, 9:24 PM

Foldemz [128]

Game: Omaha

re: Poker & $10 NLHE Full Ring: How is this line & sizing? no draws complete

Why are you leading out when someone else raised pre? Check/Call, or Check/Raise makes much more sense and often nets more money.

#6

27th April 2016, 10:55 PM

John A [4,982]

Same theme with all of your hands... you're not betting enough.

#7

27th April 2016, 11:41 PM

mbrenneman0 [1,345]

Poker at: ACR

Any info on UTG?

#8

27th April 2016, 11:57 PM

mbrenneman0 [1,345]

Online Poker at: ACR

Originally Posted by Foldemz

Why are you leading out when someone else raised pre? Check/Call, or Check/Raise makes much more sense and often nets more money.

Because there is only one hand that is better and there are enough worse hands that are going to call him here. He is getting called by pair of kings, pair of 6s, most pocket pairs and flush draws. Only hands that beats us here is pocket 6s and pocket kings. And pocket kings would probably raise the flop or bet the turn. That's why reason I wonder if there's any info on utg, does utg 3bet preflop with pocket kings?

The number of hands that are calling and losing outnumber the number of hands that are calling and winning here so it is a good value bet that pays off more often than not.

Just make sure you are making utg pay for any draws he might have. So I agree with Tim that your bet sizes could be just a little stronger.

#9

28th April 2016, 12:46 AM

Foldemz [128]

Game: Omaha

Originally Posted by mbrenneman0

Because there is only one hand that is better and there are enough worse hands that are going to call him here. He is getting called by pair of kings, pair of 6s, most pocket pairs and flush draws. Only hands that beats us here is pocket 6s and pocket kings. And pocket kings would probably raise the flop or bet the turn. That's why reason I wonder if there's any info on utg, does utg 3bet preflop with pocket kings?

The number of hands that are calling and losing outnumber the number of hands that are calling and winning here so it is a good value bet that pays off more often than not.

Donk leading is very fishy. With Cbets being as standard as they are you will most often lose value when you just lead out when someone else raised pre. Also people won't generally raise pre and check back their draws on the flop.

You miss out on value by not giving your opponent the chance to cbet with air or a semi bluff because they will just flat out fold.

Very fishy.

#10

28th April 2016, 1:04 AM

mbrenneman0 [1,345]

Online Poker at: ACR

re: Poker & $10 NLHE Full Ring: How is this line & sizing? no draws complete

Originally Posted by Foldemz

Donk leading is very fishy. With Cbets being as standard as they are you will most often lose value when you just lead out when someone else raised pre. Also people won't generally raise pre and check back their draws on the flop.

You miss out on value by not giving your opponent the chance to cbet with air or a semi bluff because they will just flat out fold.

Very fishy.

Wouldn't he lose value on the later streets by check raising the flop? Or do you mean he should check call then bet the turn? I think either scenario gives away the strength of his hand. And he might not get called down the whole way to the river.

Maybe villain flopped a flush draw, checking here could give him a free card to complete his draw.

#11

28th April 2016, 1:35 AM

Foldemz [128]

Game: Omaha

Originally Posted by mbrenneman0

Wouldn't he lose value on the later streets by check raising the flop? Or do you mean he should check call then bet the turn? I think either scenario gives away the strength of his hand. And he might not get called down the whole way to the river.

Maybe villain flopped a flush draw, checking here could give him a free card to complete his draw.

Like I said, People don't raise pre and miss their cbet when they have a draw. You're not giving them a free card if you look at how high cbet frequencies are now days (probably north of 80%)

The only thing you're doing is letting your opponent know you connected on the flop and most the time you can expect a fold if they didn't connect.

Most people know Cbets are literally done with any 2 cards so a check raise on a flop doesn't necessarily look super strong. It's sometimes interpreted as saying "I'm betting your cbet is air." (seeing as how most cbets are indeed air)

Originally Posted by mbrenneman0

He is getting called by pair of kings, pair of 6s, most pocket pairs and flush draws. Only hands that beats us here is pocket 6s and pocket kings.

Also, all of these ^ hands are cbetting anyways.
Hands that didn't connect at all are folding to your donkey bet, and we don't want that. We want them to continue.

#12

28th April 2016, 1:41 AM

mbrenneman0 [1,345]

Online Poker at: ACR

Originally Posted by Foldemz

Like I said, People don't raise pre and miss their cbet when they have a draw. You're not giving them a free card if you look at how high cbet frequencies are now days (probably north of 80%)

The only thing you're doing is letting your opponent know you connected on the flop and most the time you can expect a fold if they didn't connect.

Most people know Cbets are literally done with any 2 cards so a check raise on a flop doesn't necessarily look super strong. It's sometimes interpreted as saying "I'm betting your cbet is air." (seeing as how most cbets are indeed air)

Also, all of these ^ hands are cbetting anyways. And hands that are air are folding, and we don't want that.

makes sense

The only thing I'm still battling with is that a check raise looks like top pair if I'm villain vs heros line could look like a poorly executed triple barrel bluff

#13

28th April 2016, 1:49 AM

Foldemz [128]

Game: Omaha

Originally Posted by mbrenneman0

makes sense

The only thing I'm still battling with is that a check raise looks like top pair if I'm villain vs heros line could look like a poorly executed triple barrel bluff

Yeah, that's a definite possibility. It can be perceived by certain opponents differently.

You could always call flop and lead out the turn. I think that's a bit less fishy than leading flop. At least this way the pots already built a bit from villains c-bet and you could fire a sizable bet on the turn, your opponent will also feel more invested.

#14

28th April 2016, 1:56 AM

mbrenneman0 [1,345]

Online Poker at: ACR

Originally Posted by Foldemz

Yeah, that's a definite possibility. It can be perceived by certain opponents differently.

You could always call flop and lead out the turn. I think that's a bit less fishy than leading flop. At least this way the pots already built a bit from villains c-bet and you could fire a sizable bet on the turn, your opponent will also feel more invested.

I think as long as villain doesnt try to cbet lightly which I think would be a good indicator of a flush draw. Personally I don't Cbet draws. If I have the chance to see a free card to complete my draw, I'm going to instead of giving my opponent the chance to check raise me. Again a read on the villain would be helpful, but without a read I think heros play is pretty good.

#15

28th April 2016, 2:00 AM

Foldemz [128]

Game: Omaha

re: Poker & $10 NLHE Full Ring: How is this line & sizing? no draws complete

Originally Posted by mbrenneman0

Personally I don't Cbet draws. If I have the chance to see a free card to complete my draw, I'm going to instead of giving my opponent the chance to check raise me.

You're missing out on a lot of value by not betting your draws as the preflop aggressor. When you hit you can fire bigger because the pot will be bigger, not only that but cbets do work so you can take it down right there as a semi bluff quite often.

#16

28th April 2016, 2:11 AM

mbrenneman0 [1,345]

Online Poker at: ACR

Originally Posted by Foldemz

You're missing out on a lot of value by not betting your draws as the preflop aggressor. When you hit you can fire bigger because the pot will be bigger, not only that but cbets do work so you can take it down right there as a semi bluff quite often.