2014-12-05

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Discussion (114) ¬

All things considered, I normally cringe at these moments. In this instance, however, if everything should go kablooey, I take comfort in the fact that 84 is extremely durable and that these other four folks will get an object lesson in team building. Lesson 1: Don’t tick off the one person least likely to be injured by what will happen next.

That may be a part of what Phlogiston’s “narcissistic sociopath” remark is referring to, too. Those two are behaving in just as maladjusted a manner as all too many supervillains, and it wouldn’t be all that surprising to see them slip over the edge at some point, with how they’re carrying on.

Especially if 84 winds up winning this one as seems likely, and that gets made public. Prima donnas like that can carry a grudge beyond all reason, and it’s a sure bet they’d feel slighted if she pulls attention from them.

I’m liking Firedrake more and more. The guy’s a bit … slow on the uptake, but he doesn’t seem to be actively rude to her. He’s going with the very common mentality of “she’s a kid, so she’s not as smart as we are”. Yeah, its still rude to treat kids like that, but there is some truth to it. Though it’d be more accurate to say they’re not as educated as adults are, as I know some kids who make adults seem like a rather dim bulb in comparison.

Phlogiston of course is coming across as a more down to earth type. She knows what she can do, but has probably never been encouraged to really see what tricks she can pull off with it. Could be that her team sees her for the obvious application of her powers and she’s never really had a chance to try any fancy schtuff with it.

After all, the best one trick ponies are the ones who take a single clear cut well defined ability and find scads of different ways to use it.

Actually, Firedrake seems like one of those kids that learned longer words but never really grew up. Not really mean, exactly, just doesn’t quite know when a joke he was proud of isn’t funny anymore and how not to come off as obnoxious. He even says he isn’t trying to offend Grigor when he’s boasting about his firepower. He’s just… A manchild. And that comes off as obnoxious to anyone who doesn’t realize how earnest he is.

On that last count, have you heard of Worm? It’s a superhero universe based on that sort of thing.

Horatio, I never said his comments weren’t insulting. If it came across that way, poor wording on my part. It’s why I said “actively rude”. I do see your point however, not dismissing it, so don’t take it that way. Characters like him are often more difficult to pin down as there are many reasons for how they behave. It could even be a mixture of both of our views about him.

I think I’m a bit confused. We seem to be giving Firedrake different benefits of the doubt. I think he’s too immature to both realize and solve how obnoxious he’s being, and you think he’s not that dumb, just working with some common predispositions that don’t apply as well to the current situation?

Horatio, all I’m saying is that Both of our views have “Potential” Merit as to the Reason he interacts with everything the way he does. We just don’t have enough facts (yet) due to lack of screen time to confirm it one way or the other. So, I’m waiting to see more development from him to get a better feel for what he’s like.

A person however Can be mature but seriously socially inept and do stupid things like what he’s done. Trust me, I’ve dealt with people like that on a regular basis. No joke.

Conjurer however has had more screen time, so his behavior patterns are more clear cut by now. Of course he can still throw us for a loop.

Ah yes. Those are always fun, the “obvious” trap that is actually nothing more than a “we have visitors” doorbell sort of thing. Of course the irony is when you have a similar setup later and it actually IS a trap!

Until and unless 84 has some very well-thought-out reasoning she can then exposit to the rest of them. Of course Conjuror will ignore it, though it may well give the other three some food for thought. Neuronet will likely pay attention, regardless of anyone else does. He’s already been blindsided by her once, and the pattern will likely continue until this is done.

It’s hard to be sure, having really read his comments again on where Neuronet stands on the issue. He mentioned the website, but didn’t say anything about the movement itself. He may be against it, he may be waiting for logical commentary. It’s impossible to tell right now. Julie however has proven she can think logically, so any logical comment here will be at the very least considered. So I take back my view about him being a prick. For now.

Firedrake is a hard one. One could call him a snarker, but looking at his earlier comments, he doesn’t seem to be a sharp enough tack to have the wit for that. He also comes across as a bit on the simple side, so he’ll probably follow the team unless there is a reason not to. As to his last commentary to Julie … that felt more like an adult trying to explain something to a kid. Not in the nicest of ways, but that’s the vibe I got off of it.

Conjurer wants to be in complete charge here, Because its His specialty. I have a feeling he probably has issues with his own group about leadership as well. He’ll balk at the idea of having to be in a support role. That’s the attitude I’ve picked up on him since his arrival.

Phlogiston seems to be the quiet sort, and as noted, is a bit dismissive of her own abilities. To me, its almost like she’s unsure and not comfortable with herself. Push comes to shove, I have a feeling she could really be a powerhouse. If they others go Too far, she’d defend Julie, if only because Julie is a “child” and she’s an “adult”.

As to saying that they’re a team … they’re not. They are five individuals, none of whom really understand each other, thrust into a bad situation. They were never told they had to team up, in fact Veles’ comment says there can only be one winner. So the issue of them staying together for now is more than none of them seems capable of stepping up to the proverbial plate.

In time, if they worked together regularly, they might be a team, and there might be team-like aspects by the time they get the eye, but for now … definitely not a Team.

The website is misleading them because its writtrn by groupies and not a functioning team, would you trust Forak with any serious website or term paper?

Neuronet already was thinking after his side moment and he’s sharing what he learned about the FISS group. And yeah Firefrake is a man-child, egging her on with the pay comment, the group’s snark. Phlogiston isn’t asking or listening to 84, so Nanny is no better than Condescending-Helmet. Teams, and especially team leaders, need to listen to each other with some level of respect.

i would love if this little show was like the old episode of Arena on STOS and all the other teams see the action.

In terms of basic goodness, I’d say Phlogiston (teal lady) is easily the most decent adult present, followed by Firedrake, who seems to not have his head completely wedged up his own rear end.
Of the final two left, duking it out for ‘biggest narccisistic sociopath’, I’m going to mark the Conjurer in the lead (or rear) here, followed fairly closely by Neuronet. Of these last two, the Conjurer seems most likely to win the ‘Horrible Warning for why maxing Int and using Wisdom as a dump stat is a bad idea’ award.

That depends ENTIRELY on how lethal Koschei wants his opening trap to be. If it’s more of a “go away and don’t bother me”, she may shrug it off, but it was designed to deter people that would look at the dragons flying overhead and not be deterred so even then I’d bet it has some kick.

If he wants to kill anyone who would even start his puzzle, well then the trap may be enough to even drop a FISS.

So our pyromaniac doesn’t seen to have too much trouble with 84 being a FISS, our mentalist thinks he’s a rock star and FISS are just whiny back-up singers, the mage thinks he’s a master craftsman and the only other female in the group is apparently (perhaps a bit too predictably) the only one who isn’t confused and thinking she’s living in a lofty tower to look down upon the FISS (or people in general) but instead actually recognizes and points out what trolls the others are.

Got to say that it does at least make one smile to see 84 go ‘Screw it!’ and go stand on the trigger spot to see what happens after that kind of verbal abuse. Really hoping those who deserve it get a good smack-down or put in their place by what comes next.

Well incoming plot of Asian/White male privilege being explained as super affirmative action as 3 guys need a strong independent woman to do all the work and fix their “mistakes”. Its a wonder how Europe and Asia managed to be the only places civilization advanced with patriarchies

Given the trend of FISS going by their numbers, he also doesn’t know whether she chose 84 as her superhero name or if she was assigned it by her “peers” (he definitely doesn’t know that she’s the one who started the trend).

In short, I think he can be excused for calling her “little girl” until she indicates her preference.

Secret identities are secret, but she does have a name that they know. 84. But they’re not calling her 84, they’re calling her things like ‘little girl’ and ‘flying brick.’

Firedrake is being a jerk, but it seems to be in a more naive manner, like he doesn’t know how abusive he’s being. A product of his culture, he knows that FISS are called things like ‘flying brick’ and goes along with it without thought, but doesn’t really mean anything by it. A good smack and a wake up call would cure him. Neuronet and Conjurer, though, they are genuinely unlikable.

I’ll give Firedrake a pass … for now. The guy can be a bit of a dim bulb after all. He’s not actively trying to be rude, just he’s slow on the uptake. I’m sure after some prodding he’ll call her by her handle or name.

Now if they’d listened to her or treated her as a person, she probably would have suggested something like, “OK, you guys shelter under a magic dome of protection while I step on the rock, and we’ll see what happens.” As it is, SCREWIT!

The funny thing is, if they get HURT she’ll be really, really sorry that she lost her temper, too.

Again, Phlogiston seems to be the only one who has, from the beginning, not been a condescending jerk at all to 84 (and actually was supportive of what she was asking or saying a few times, or at least defensive of how jerk-ishly the others were acting towards her (with the Doorman thing, and now with the narcissistic sociopath thing).

Firedrake doesnt seem that jerkish either (he seemed to like the idea of having a flying brick with them) – his thing seems to be more being condescending to her because she’s a little kid that needs protecting.

Why do I have a feeling that Julie will warm up to Phlogiston and “pass” the Eye to her for delivery? Because she’s actually civil, intelligent, and appears to be a nice person. Of course Veles will know the truth, as I’m sure any time they scratch their head he’s aware of exactly what part of their head they scratch.

I like that idea, I think I’ve seen that in a module, comic, or similar regarding traps that being designed by say dwarves were targeted at areas above the normal height of a dwarf to hit say an invading dark elf or thieving human but not hit a dwarf (so a dwarf to lead intruders into such a trap).

Dwarves are just as sensible as anyone else when it comes to making use of traps, they’re Lawful Good not Lawful Stupid after all. No point to having traps and not using them when they should be used. Just instead of luring an enemy into an ambush he’s just luring them into a stationary trap point.

The best traps are the ones that have a logical clear cut solution, if those involved don’t over analyze things.

A passage that only lets those who ‘tread upon air’ to pass. Solution, a set of rings they had picked up not too long before. Any inspection of the rings had implications of passage and wings. They were magical, but nobody could figure out what they did, and nobody was willing to put them on either. The rings were designed to allow them to circumvent (or land in) certain traps by floating over them.

The dimwit figured that a person flying through the air qualified as “treading upon air”. Yup, he threw a member of the party through the passage. The GM considered it acceptable, for that character anyway. The rest balked at being thrown through for obvious reasons. They found another way through, but it wasn’t pretty.

Often thinking that complex solutions or tools are needed to solve a problem only makes things more complex than they actually are.

Pencils aren’t used in space, not by anybody. They create dust and shavings which can be breathed in or get into electronics. The only pencils used are wax pencils (which don’t produce those problems), and they don’t create permanent copy. Incidentally, space pens were developed by private industry, and not by any government. NASA scored the first 200 of them for cheap.

I remember hearing of the story to which Prairie Son alludes. NASA spent a small fortune trying (unsuccessfully) to create a pen that would work in space (pens, after all, are gravity-fed, and don’t work well in space as is). The Russians, however, just went with a pencil (graphite or wax, it matters not – they are a proven technology that work well under multiple situations already, so why would they try to recreate the wheel?)

Phlogiston seems pretty dismissive of her own powers, so it’s not unbelievable that she appreciates a FISS-type. Firedrake is a pretty straight-shooter, even if he doesn’t think much before he talks. Summoner isn’t wrong, but he certainly isn’t helping. Fishbowl-head is going to get his attitude adjusted.

Has no one ever pointed out to these putzes that flashy powers means everyone knows what you can do and how to counter them? Not to mention pointed out to them that flashy powers does not always equate to surviving to retirement age?

This Job is short term (although it might be terminal, but I don’t think Veles would play it that way. I suspect the failures will be more like the bad kids in Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory) whereas the FISS movement might have an effect on their income (appearance fees, endorsements etc.)

Considering Veles is “an ancient god of mischief and magic”, I can quite well see him live-streaming the event, rather than just recording it. Doesn’t mean it won’t wind up on YouTube later, it just means everyone can see what’s happening as it happens.

Firedrake is treating 84 like I’ve seen many people act towards kids, not a way that kids LIKE to be treated, but he basically doesn’t know any better. That’s basically unrelated to her being a FISS, other than the flying brick comments and stuff… but the way he says that makes me think that he thinks that’s actually cool. Plus he IS concerned for Julie’s safety, since he sees her as a kid and therefore he seems to feel a bit responsible for her. Which is respectable enough.

Bubblehead and Conjurer.. dear god. Those two are such hilariously insecure assholes it’s funny. Every opportunity they’ve got, they either tried to show off their own powers, or disparage other people. Yeah, you’re not overcompensating at ALL. Every word out of their mouths about FISS sounds like they’re trying to convince themselves of what they’re saying as well.

I actually like Phlogiston, she’s willing to call out the other people when they’re being assholes. She seems very level-headed and possessing actual empathy, which seems to be minority qualities among the supers from what I’ve seen.

Kolth, I’ll agree about Conjurer. He’s good target practice, especially that bathrobe. It seriously Has to Go. I mean, I’d tolerate a skinny man in trunks in comparison. Now if he’d arrived with signs he’d Just stepped out of the shower, but then changed to a more appropriate garb, he could be forgiven. But it seems to be how he dresses. I also have a feeling that he himself has no magical power. Knowledge, yes, power no. IE the power comes from the helm itself.

Neuronet … its hard to pin him down. He listened to Julie earlier, and the way he phrased the bit about the website left it open to interpretation on how he views the movement itself. That’s why I’m saying he gets a pass. For now. He may of course prove himself to be a second grade version of a jerk compared to Conjurer.

Firedrake … I’ve said elsewhere here some of my views. It’s interesting how diverse the image of him actually is.

Phlogiston, yeah, seems the most level headed, if a bit insecure and unsure in ways.

She makes as much sense as any decent human being and any decent superhero. And I applaud her calling out the other three for being jerks, superpowered or not. I think she- and 84- may turn out to be the truer heroes here.

I’d say in some cases its also a case of “which loser has the worst wardrobe?”

In this group … its a hands down winner on who has the worst wardrobe. Anyone who disagrees that it is Conjurer … you need a serious checkup!

But yes, common sense is something the average superhero tends to lack. It’s why the ones who actually stop to go “what can go wrong?” are the most interesting. You don’t do a ten ton punch to the chest of a thirty foot behemoth when there is a building, probably still full of people, behind it. That’s when you either smash him on the head (sewers can be fixed) or hit him where it’d hurt anything with flesh. Of course if the behemoth is a hundred and fifty tons, rules change.

I just think it’s amusing that they haven’t thought about what they’re actually doing. A guy with a name like Koschei the Undying probably isn’t keeping anything NICE in there. What mythological being is deathless, and known to keep something REAL important to it hidden away from pesky adventurers? And why would Veles be messing with this being, aside from the humor value? I’d have thought Conjuror would have thought of something without even trying…

Much, much, much less respect for Conjuror, Firedrake, and Neuronet. >:-( This particularly includes Firedrake for being an ignorant idiot (although, Conjuror and Neuronet’s intelligence and knowledge makes their faults all the more worse as well).

Much, much, much sympathy for 84. 🙁 I’m astounded at how terrible and arrogant the other supers are. No wonder the other FISS folks- notably 41, Brian, and Ajax- were so down in the dumps about being FISS.

BUT- more, more and more respect for Phlogiston. 🙂 She’s not only shown herself to be a decent and prudent person, but she’s aware and critical of the kind of the attitude and behavior of the others.

I have to say this: I really hope there’s some kind of happy ending here for 84 (and Phlogiston). I’m thinking along the lines of, “You did good, 84. If you ever need a team, give me a call.” Better would insert “or any other FISS” between “you” and “ever”, but that may be hoping for too much.

Thing is, if 84 gets a team-up offer out of this, it won’t be because she’s a FISS; it’ll be because she’s 84. Offering a generic FISS a team-up because 84’s good is only marginally better than dismissing all FISSes because some of them are useless – it’s still lumping all FISSes together just because they happen to share the same powers…

The attitude that The Conjurer has about the “Hammer versus Precision Equipment” Issue smacks of Hypocrisy to me; Sure they’re lock-picks might open a door, but I have a feeling they’d also use it to drive in a nail.

The doorman already said that they wouldn’t take anyone’s powers, ‘for what good they do you’. that combined with the fact that this place is clearly designed as a test makes me think that all the traps are designed without expectations about powers. A trickster spirit will likely be testing cunning, and maybe character. I suspect every test could be beaten by someone like moonshadow without any powers at all. Therefore I’m pretty sure nothing will be going BOOM in the immediate future. As others said she will probably ask to be let in and allowed to, or some sort of riddle/trick will used that she figures out.

There is a distinct difference between an adult that is mature and educated trying to steer a child out of danger because they are less experienced and being condescending cretins.

Julie for all intents and purposes is a child. She’s a powerhouse but still a child.

The problem with this scenario which is scary if you think about it is that half the group wants to use her as a tool barely acknowledging her as a person much less as a child to the point of dismissive; one treating her as a kid sister that he’d wish would have stayed at home; and the fourth (less at fault then the others I’ll concede) trying to figure out why she was chosen and not perhaps paying attention to the child as much as they all should.

All this and they are missing the clues and hints that through Julie’s actions have been provided. Being taught to be polite, I’m assuming by her parents, has gone a long way so far. It wouldn’t kill one of them to kneel down to her and look her in the eye to get her feelings about what is going on, then (with her included in the discussion) try to put some logic into what the circumstances are to find a solution.

Yeah, it is kind of scary. Of course, look at Veles. He didn’t care about her age either when he chucked her into the Egg. Kind of makes him far less “likable” if you think about it that way. And yes, I dunno why, but I sort of like Veles.

To be fair Veles IS a god after all, ages old to the point that they’re all infants to him (which is why in the tales gods tended to be impressed when a mortal demonstrated wisdom or cunning that they felt took a God’s age to develop).

I’d say we like Veles, in as much as he hasn’t really caused much damage. With his power, he could have caused far more. He obviously has a set of rules that he is rigorous about following. He has been unfailingly courteous to his would-be opponents, despite themselves.

To me, he has an aura of nobility – that “old school” regard for tradition. A god of trickery he may be, but not a god of wanton destruction and chaos.

This is a guy you could go 10 rounds with, then go out for a pint together at the pub afterwards.

But on the other hand, he’s treating her with more respect than most of the others around her. Julie is young, yes, but she’s competent and blessed with common sense. He may be expecting more of her than one should expect of a child… but Julie isn’t just “a child” either.

I have to point this out as an ‘adult.’ There was a certain point where I just stopped being able to tell how old people younger than me were. I think Veles honestly has no clue 84 is a ‘child’ in any real sense of the word. He thinks everyone is a child. Keep in mind he’s 1000s of years old, so everyone looks ‘stupid young’ to him (you all look alike).

I know that sounds really weird, but I’m almost 40 and I can’t tell the difference between someone who is 22 and 26 or 22 and 18 in other than ‘vague’ terms.

Neuronet’s rockstar metaphor fails because a rock star without backup singers and musicians will either be playing his own music or singing unaccompanied, which is not typical rock music. Conjurer’s metaphor is even worse; an architect is not proven great without the masons to do the building. Conjurer also fails because his helmet leaves the back of his neck dangerously exposed. I’m wondering whether he’s just homely or has a really bad poker face that would give away his plans to anyone who can interpret facial expressions. Phlogiston needs to rethink her name; she’s got something backwards. PHlogiston and Firedrake would make a reasonable pair.

Neuronet … his metaphor is a mixed bag actually. The people who fall into “support” often don’t get even a third of the credit that they’re due. Because nobody sees them unless there is a problem. Friend of mine was in Drama during high school and he was part of the backstage crew. Nobody ever saw them of course, but they kept things running smoothly. Without proper “support” any structure is at risk of falling apart, regardless of what type of structure it is.

As to Conjurer, the Helmet could actually be the source of his power. So he may not have much of a choice in the design. Or he could just be a guy with zero fashion sense.

Can’t really say much more about Phlogiston or Firedrake that I haven’t said already.

Huh. Y’know, I’d almost give Firedrake a pass on this one. He might be being kind of a twit, but at the same time, Conjuror’s rather obnoxious metaphor is one that a kid- even a bright kid- could easily miss. Without tone, it’s tough to tell- he might even be poking fun at Conjuror’s overly-flowery way of speaking. I actually suspect that he’s significantly younger than the others- he might not even be out of his teens, from his mannerisms and slimmer build. Just a guess, of course.

Phlogiston… yeh, no ‘nanny’ vibe for me on her- it was *Firedrake* that said that this wasn’t a safe place for a kid, not her. Other than that… hard to judge what her personality is at this stage, she really hasn’t said much.

I’m not even all that inclined to think Neuronet is horrible- I think that he, even moreso than Firedrake, just blurts out the first thing that pops into his head- which isn’t all that unexpected a trait for a telepath, if you think about it.

As for Conjuror… hmm. He *could* be a Prima Donna with a massively inflated sense of self-importance, but my gut feeling is that there’s more to his story than that. This is probably completely off the wall and ludicrous, but my first instinct/guess is that he’s a scientist who got magic powers foisted upon him in some fashion, and is subconsciously trying to jam magic into a more ‘scientific’ mold, lined up in sterilized boxes with neat labels on pins. Or maybe not, who knows? Maybe he’s just a jerk.

… and it would be pretty funny if *Julie* were the one to come out of this with a lesson learned- something to the effect of ‘sometimes you just have to be patient and work with dumb jerks’. Especially if the lesson were repeated where the aforementioned jerks could hear 😛

I find myself wondering how from what we’ve seen of the other teams that showed up did any of them have FISS on them or were they all made up of less-commonly powered supers? Might be worse than it appears where the teams themselves were formed like the kiddy clubs we saw at PS238 to force-out the ‘not cool’ FISS, although at least Firedrake clearly appreciates having a FISS around even if he thinks they have the ‘non-flashy’ powers and Phlogiston so far hasn’t shown any sort of ant-FISS bias like with Conjurer and Neuronet. Having a FISS on their teams might explain why the former are more neutral or positive towards 84, they’ve reason to appreciate them.

The real problem here isn’t their personalities, its that they are forming a debating society while all of Manhattan has less than seven hours to avoid massive reorganization (at a minimum). Yes, they should think about things before they do them, but above all else they should make decisions with reasonable speed.