I liked Wes, except for the 12 fumbles in 3 years just in the return game

Ok, couple of things. 1. You're ok with Ginn's inability to hold onto the ball, but it's bad when Welker does it? 2. Welker did have a fumble problem from fighting for extra yards on punts. He learned though, and diving for extra yardage on punts and kicks became less of an occurrence for him as he learned. Ginn on the other hand fumbled, and continued to fumble despite less touches.

The number of times they fumbled per touch is identical at 32.8 touches per fumble, however as Welker's touches increased, his fumbles did too. Ginn saw less touches, but the same number of fumbles per touch.

This doesn't include drops.

Anyway, the point is, Welker gave Miami more points on returns than Ginn.

I liked Wes, except for the 12 fumbles in 3 years just in the return game

Ok, couple of things. 1. You're ok with Ginn's inability to hold onto the ball, but it's bad when Welker does it? 2. Just in the return game? You are wrong there. 3. Welker did have a fumble problem from fighting for extra yards on punts. He learned though, and diving for extra yardage on punts and kicks became less of an occurrence for him as he learned. Ginn on the other hand fumbled, and continued to fumble despite less touches.

The number of times they fumbled per touch is identical at 32.8 touches per fumble, however as Welker's touches increased, his fumbles did too. Ginn saw less touches, but the same number of fumbles per touch.

This doesn't include drops.

Anyway, the point is, Welker gave Miami more points on returns than Ginn.

ok, I was just trying to point out Welker fumbled more than Ginn; since the fumbles are the one thing you love to bring up about Ginn. If you take the fair catches out; Welker fumbled every 19 touches and Ginn every 24 touches.

And yes, Welker did fumble 12 times just in the return game in the 3 years he was with Miami

ok, I was just trying to point out Welker fumbled more than Ginn; since the fumbles are the one thing you love to bring up about Ginn. If you take the fair catches out; Welker fumbled every 19 touches and Ginn every 24 touches.

You don't have a punt return tally if you don't return it. My numbers figure in the total number of touches. They fumbled equally over the three year span, but Welker fumbled less as he matured. Ginn fumbled more per touch...and as I said, that does not include drops.

You and schmoe irrationally bash Ginn and I stick up for him, simple as that.

Irrationally bash?

MT man, Ginn got his chance here and blew it..time after time. Yeah, he showed signs of his big play ability, but more times than not, let's face it, he was either dropping a pass on 3rd down, muffing a punt, or running a kick back to the 10 before going out of bounds.

Seems kinda silly to debate this long after Ginn's departure ain't it? Face it, we wasted a 1st round pick. Simple as that. He was fast. Had potential, but his time to shine ran out with his lack of production. At best, he was an average player. LOL, in fact, the 1st round pick for Jax this year kinda reminded me of Ginn's pick. Time to start talking about the future with B.Marshall in the squad.

Seems kinda silly to debate this long after Ginn's departure ain't it? Face it, we wasted a 1st round pick. Simple as that. He was fast. Had potential, but his time to shine ran out with his lack of production. At best, he was an average player. LOL, in fact, the 1st round pick for Jax this year kinda reminded me of Ginn's pick. Time to start talking about the future with B.Marshall in the squad.

Agree with most of that. Let's forget about the Ginn experiment. It's too painful to think of the era of all the wasted draft picks. Ginn was a bad pick from the time we heard "And with the 10th pick in the draft the Miami Dolphins choose... Ted Ginn." It just got worse from there.

Let start talking about the future and not a waste of roster space from the past.

Oh well, he had potential and didn't live up to it. If we had not drafted him, then I imagine we would have taken Brady Quinn. I don't know whether or not that would have worked out any better. I really was excited about Ginn's abilities when he was drafted....and he flashed his speed in some nice reverses, returns and an OCCASIONAL big pass play....but he was never worthy of his lofty draft status. A shame, because I think he had all the God given talent necessary to be a big time player in the NFL...but he seems too timid and concerned with his physical safety on every play. Don't be surprised if Singletary might be the guy that can turn Ginn around though. I doubt it....but if there is any guy out there who could motivate him it is Singletary.

_________________Philbin's countenance exudes confidence!1984 was so long ago...Will there ever be another rainbow?

Oh well, he had potential and didn't live up to it. If we had not drafted him, then I imagine we would have taken Brady Quinn. I don't know whether or not that would have worked out any better. I really was excited about Ginn's abilities when he was drafted....and he flashed his speed in some nice reverses, returns and an OCCASIONAL big pass play....but he was never worthy of his lofty draft status. A shame, because I think he had all the God given talent necessary to be a big time player in the NFL...but he seems too timid and concerned with his physical safety on every play. Don't be surprised if Singletary might be the guy that can turn Ginn around though. I doubt it....but if there is any guy out there who could motivate him it is Singletary.

As poor as he wsa, Cameron wasn't big on Quinn. His words were something like, "you can't teach an innacurate QB to be accurate." Nobody knows who the next choice would have been. It's just a shame he wasted it on a guy who's biggest upside was on special teams. Using a top 10 pick to improve your special temas is a formula for failure.