The most telling thing about Adam being kicked out of the garden is that the LORD left the garden with him.

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Psa 8:4]

Still trying to digest this one . . .If the Lord is omni-present . . .is he not in the garden AND with Adam as well? The only time I can see him leaving the garden was when he became flesh . . .and as soon as he accomplished what he set out to do, he left this realm to return back to the garden . . .at which point, the garden then was poured out upon all flesh . . .quite the circle of life we have going on here . .yes??

Not much of a sacrifice. Sorry but maybe the knight in shining army turns out to be a frog.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

""Lets eat the tree adam, it looks good and makes one wise"

Adam

"ok" TT

I fail to see your conversation in these translations. And would you desire more?

Genesis 3:6

(ASV) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.

(CLV) And seeing is the woman that the tree is good for food, and that it brings a yearning to the eyes, and is to be coveted as the tree to make one intelligent. And taking is she of its fruit and is eating, and she is giving, moreover, to her husband with her, and they are eating."

(KJV) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

(Rotherham) And, when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was desirable to the eyes and the tree was pleasant to make one knowing, then took she of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and she gave to her husband also, along with her, and he did eat.

(YLT) And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

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Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

The most telling thing about Adam being kicked out of the garden is that the LORD left the garden with him.

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Psa 8:4]

Still trying to digest this one . . .If the Lord is omni-present . . .is he not in the garden AND with Adam as well? The only time I can see him leaving the garden was when he became flesh . . .and as soon as he accomplished what he set out to do, he left this realm to return back to the garden . . .at which point, the garden then was poured out upon all flesh . . .quite the circle of life we have going on here . .yes??

It is my humble opinion that God IS the garden, God IS adam. He NEVER left the garden, whether it is this realm as you speak or a realm that we/you do not consider. God is in everything God is everything.

Logged

Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

The most telling thing about Adam being kicked out of the garden is that the LORD left the garden with him.

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Psa 8:4]

Still trying to digest this one . . .If the Lord is omni-present . . .is he not in the garden AND with Adam as well? The only time I can see him leaving the garden was when he became flesh . . .and as soon as he accomplished what he set out to do, he left this realm to return back to the garden . . .at which point, the garden then was poured out upon all flesh . . .quite the circle of life we have going on here . .yes??

In Gen 2 and 3, we see the LORD God [YHWH elohiym] in the garden with Adam.

In Gen 4, Adam is outside the garden, and it is the LORD [YHWH] who is outside the garden talking with the sons of Adam.

Then, the LORD sends Cain out of his presence to a place that is in another part of the earth, causing Cain to fear for his life from those who would kill him out there.

The most telling thing about Adam being kicked out of the garden is that the LORD left the garden with him.

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Psa 8:4]

Still trying to digest this one . . .If the Lord is omni-present . . .is he not in the garden AND with Adam as well? The only time I can see him leaving the garden was when he became flesh . . .and as soon as he accomplished what he set out to do, he left this realm to return back to the garden . . .at which point, the garden then was poured out upon all flesh . . .quite the circle of life we have going on here . .yes??

I thought, when I read this, that what was being said was that God went with Adam, as in..."in Him we live and breath and have our being" ... as in "if I make my bed in sheol thou art with me".... as in "forgive them Father they know not what they do".... not as in "God was longer in the garden". Now I am all confused....

The most telling thing about Adam being kicked out of the garden is that the LORD left the garden with him.

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Psa 8:4]

Still trying to digest this one . . .If the Lord is omni-present . . .is he not in the garden AND with Adam as well? The only time I can see him leaving the garden was when he became flesh . . .and as soon as he accomplished what he set out to do, he left this realm to return back to the garden . . .at which point, the garden then was poured out upon all flesh . . .quite the circle of life we have going on here . .yes??

It is my humble opinion that God IS the garden, God IS adam. He NEVER left the garden, whether it is this realm as you speak or a realm that we/you do not consider. God is in everything God is everything.

God is omnipresent, however I think you do not see the dividing line between his works of his hands and his presence.

Not much of a sacrifice. Sorry but maybe the knight in shining army turns out to be a frog.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

""Lets eat the tree adam, it looks good and makes one wise"

Adam

"ok" TT

I fail to see your conversation in these translations. And would you desire more?

Genesis 3:6

(ASV) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.

(CLV) And seeing is the woman that the tree is good for food, and that it brings a yearning to the eyes, and is to be coveted as the tree to make one intelligent. And taking is she of its fruit and is eating, and she is giving, moreover, to her husband with her, and they are eating."

(KJV) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

(Rotherham) And, when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was desirable to the eyes and the tree was pleasant to make one knowing, then took she of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and she gave to her husband also, along with her, and he did eat.

(YLT) And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

Failing to see that, you must see greater failure in the idea that Adam sacrificed himself for Eve.

In the conversation I did, I highlighted that Adam took Eves lead of eating the fruit due to the suggestion that it makes one wise.There is no talk of saving Eves children or Eve herself.

The bible says that in Adam all die. He is the one that brought death to mankind, his sacrifice saved nothing, it was Father who sent Jesus who made the sacrifice to save Adams children. Mankind was nearly wiped out during Noahs day, till gods grace intervened.

I totally understand what you are saying. But......what he did was "good", which is STILL eating of the wrong tree, which produces death. We can have a right motive, but if the Lord didn't tell us to do something, it still produces death. IF the Lord by His breath had told him to do it, there would have been no sin.

He was perceiving thru a glass darkly (darkened soul) what the Lord does, in the laying down of life. It's the same thing as doing good works without faith (which comes from the Spirit speaking), which still is death, or death-producing.

Every think about the fact the VEIL had winged (which means feathers, a type of covering) cherubims woven into it by His decree? Blessings....

the veil having wings woven into it.....images of what lay within......

Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Through the veil, as we enfold the hope of eternal life, seeing things eye and ear cannot perceive, in the spirit of wisdom and revelation, speaking the hidden wisdom, breaking bread with hidden manna, sharing in the sufferings if Christ, staedfastly beholding the image within and being transformed, with ever-increasing glory, by the Spirit, who is the Lord!

But what about the vocabulary in Genesis 3? Isn't the chapter crystal clear that the thingtalking to Eve was a snake? Actually, the vocabulary is clear, but the meaning traditionhas given it is not, and has in fact produced the "snake" problem noted above. TheHebrew word translated "serpent" or "snake" in Genesis 3 is nachash (pronounced,nakash). More specifically, the word is ha-nachash. The prefixed "ha" is the wayHebrew denotes a definite article (the word for "the"). So ha-nachash may be said tomean "the nachash."

The word nachash is a very elastic term in Hebrew. It can function as a noun, a verb, oreven as an adjective. When nachash functions as a noun it means "snake," and so thetraditional translation is possible—but it yields the contradiction with Ezekiel 28 andIsaiah 14 noted above.iv When nachash serves as a verb it means "to practicedivination."v That meaning could also be possible in Genesis 3 due to the deception orgoing on—Lucifer claiming to have the "real" word from God. When a verb receives anarticle attached to it, the action of the verb is then transformed into a person doing theaction. Hence the word ha-nachash would then best be translated "the diviner."

The third option—the adjectival meaning of nachash—is the solution to the contradictionproblem. When nachash serves as adjective, it's meaning is "shining bronze" or"polished" (as in "shiny"). By adding the article to the word, ha-nachash would thenquite easily mean "the shining one." Angelic or divine beings are elsewhere described inthe Bible as "shining" or luminous, at times with this very word, nachash.vi We oftendon't think about how common this vocabulary of "shining brilliance" is for angels andother divine beings. The Bible abounds with descriptions of such beings as "flashing" or"as lightning," or uses the brilliance of jewels to describe the blazing appearance of suchbeings. This has important ramifications for solving the "snake" problem.

What's so significant about translating ha-nachash as "shining one" and not "snake" inGenesis 3? Very simply, "shining one" is the literal meaning of "Lucifer." The name"Lucifer" is actually Latin and comes from the Latin Vulgate translation of the HebrewOld Testament. In Isaiah 14:12, the Hebrew name of primeval conspirator against God is"Helel ben-Shachar"—"Shining One, son of the Dawn." Translating ha-nachash as"Shining One" removes the contradiction of seeing a snake vs. a supernatural being inEden since it provides an explicit parallel between the two passages.

Matthew 16;26...what good would it be for a man if he gain the whole world[dominion] but forfeits his soul

this might be the best woman/soul connection I've seen (sorry Micah )

What good it would it be for a man it he gain the whole world[dominion] but forfeits his "life."There is absolutely no connection to a woman/soul, except (opinion of mine) when man continues to see the NT "soul" as something other than the what the "beginning" meant a soul(living, breathing creature) to be.

Lev 17:14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off. CLT

Lev 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. KJV

soul.H5315 a breathing creature

Personally(my opinion) when religious and theologians want some thing to change to make mans intellect and imagination kick in and lead men [even a little] off the the truth in understanding, they will. A soul is a living breathing creature, man is a living soul, a rabbit is a living soul, a snake is a living soul(all though a snake is also addressed to be beast of the field).

Logged

Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Matthew 16;26...what good would it be for a man if he gain the whole world[dominion] but forfeits his soul

The beast gains the world, by taking the serpents bait, but forfeits his soul.

In Adam all die.

where?

Adam....who is the figure of him that was to come. [Rom 5:14]

Is Christ a beast?

No he doesn't forfeit his soul because love covers a multitude of sins. Nor is he ever accused of pride.

Rather, we see the LORD outside the garden with Adam, instructing his sons.

Our Redeemer has always been our kinsman.

He has sent redemption to His people; He has ordained His covenant forever; holy and awesome is His name. (Psalm 111:9).

If christ had taken the same temptation as Adam in the wilderness, then Christ would have become as a beast led by the serpent.But Christ resisted the devils temptations.

If lucifer is Adam, then pride is there in the text, wanting to become as God. If translation is correct, the son of the morning star.Adam and eve desired to become wise as god, knowing good and evil.

Christ was kinsman reedemer after becoming in the likeness of men, the seed of Abraham. Growing up as a human, child, God experiencing life as a human being. For do we not have a high priest who was touched in the same manner as we are?

Christ was kinsman reedemer after becoming in the likeness of men, the seed of Abraham. Growing up as a human, child, God experiencing life as a human being. For do we not have a high priest who was touched in the same manner as we are?

This is kind of interesting, because it is written, Adam is the son of God.

By law a man can only be redeemed by his near kinsman.

Isaiah 63:16 But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

In the conversation I did, I highlighted that Adam took Eves lead of eating the fruit due to the suggestion that it makes one wise

It can't be that, TT, though, because...we are told that Adam was not deceived.

Therefore, Adam did not believe any of the Shining One's lies.

Therefore, we have to ascribe a different motive to Adam.

Rom 5:14-18 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (15) But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. (16) And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. (17) For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) (18) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Adam's transgression was disobedience, an offense that resulted in death to all. His motive was self.

Jesus, the pattern son, testified, "i come to do Thy will O God" and "Zeal for Thine house consumes me"...."Nevertheless not my will but Thine be done

A sacrifice that resulted in life for all

We are called into conformity with the sacrifice of the son

Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (2) And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

If anyone would be my disciple, let them take up their cross, and come follow me.

This is how we join the Door, and become Gates

If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto myself........ Be lifted up ye gates and be lifted up ye everlasting doors, that the King of Glory may come in.

"The Greek translation of the word "pattern" is "tupos" which is defined as: An impression made by a stamp, an exact image, an exact model, a copy, a type, an example. In context, the phrase "who is a pattern of the coming one" ("ejstin tuvpo tou' mevllonto hos estin tupos tou mellontos") refers to Adam as a copy of Christ."

In the conversation I did, I highlighted that Adam took Eves lead of eating the fruit due to the suggestion that it makes one wise

It can't be that, TT, though, because...we are told that Adam was not deceived.

Therefore, Adam did not believe any of the Shining One's lies.

Therefore, we have to ascribe a different motive to Adam.

Rom 5:14-18 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (15) But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. (16) And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. (17) For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) (18) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Adam's transgression was disobedience, an offense that resulted in death to all. His motive was self.

Jesus, the pattern son, testified, "i come to do Thy will O God" and "Zeal for Thine house consumes me"...."Nevertheless not my will but Thine be done

A sacrifice that resulted in life for all

We are called into conformity with the sacrifice of the son

Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (2) And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

If anyone would be my disciple, let them take up their cross, and come follow me.

This is how we join the Door, and become Gates

If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto myself........ Be lifted up ye gates and be lifted up ye everlasting doors, that the King of Glory may come in.

GLORY! I do so love what you posted! Glory! Glory! " Be lifted up ye gates and be lifted up ye everlasting doors, that the King of Glory may come in.

Logged

Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.