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Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

The Collison for Mahinmi trade is not as terrible as it might seem, actually. And it could still pan out (the idea of trading PG talent for big talent was a solid one). Granger being out just makes the trade look a lot worse than it actually was because we traded a gifted offensively player for someone who we don't really expect to do many things but fill in for Roy, which he has done admirably and will probably continue to improve on.

However, that entire deal was premised on the idea that (a) Augustin was a serviceable back up and (b) Green was as gifted offensively as Collison. Neither have panned out. If Augustin and Green had been as good as advertised, we'd be doing a lot better right now.

More fundamentally, this team is based on the idea that everyone has a role and is a particular kind of cog in the machinery. Danny is at the center of all of that. When you have a team of talented role players with different skills, you need the center cog even more than a team built on just a few big cogs might. That is, Dwyane Wade might be better than Danny but the role of every other player on that team is not predicated on his play. I think our team realized that we had this vulnerability in the offseason and tried to address it by getting Mahinmi (fill in cog for Roy) and Green (fill in cog for Danny). Unfortunately, Green is just not a talented scorer. And worse, he represents a huge drop off on defense as well.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

in fairness, he has a history of getting burned on D, especially on P & R situations. He's been taken out on last second plays in the past (including playoffs) and it has tended to work. That said, max contract guy who is (supposed to be) good at D, you gotta leave him in.

That makes sense if they need a three pointer. Is our best defender really that bad of a defender when it counts most?

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"I like our group of people," Ainge told USA Today. "I'm trying to teach them about basketball, and they're trying to teach me about analytics."

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Augustin's the one I can't figure out more than anything. I'm not writing Green or Mahinmi off at all, but it's clear to everyone those were somewhat of gambles. Augustin was consistently solid in Charlotte from day one. It's like he literally forgot how to play.

yeah- i knew he (dj) was stinking it up on his shooting however, it is really, really bad. his fg% is BARELY 17% right now. and even though roy has been getting a ton of flack (and he deserves some no doubt) mahinmi has been very underwhelming as well. he played 10 minutes last night and pulls down 1 freakin rebound.
i can understand that if he was a guard but a center? if he plays like this- we might as well of kept solomon jones for like 1/5 the price.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Hibbert wasn't in because the wolves went small ball on that last play and I guess Vogel didn't want to have Hibbert chasing smaller guys. And come on people, on these situations there are so many switches that having Hibbert wouldn't have changed anything because he wouldn't have been able to focus on some guy going to the rim. For these situations you need quick defenders, not inside cloggers.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

I CANNOT believe ppl are still complaining about the PG position after what Hill did the last 2 nights. Dude damn near won the game by himself. He's not perfect but is evolving into a hell of a PG. Just cuz he can score well, doesnt make him less of a PG in todays game. In fact playing the way he does is the way of 85%-90% of the PG's in the NBA.

I'm convinced that unless someone has Mark Jackson type numbers/mentality, they aren't deemed a good PG by most of PD. Which is sad bc they're missing a hell of an evolution in a player.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

I CANNOT believe ppl are still complaining about the PG position after what Hill did the last 2 nights. Dude damn near won the game by himself. He's not perfect but is evolving into a hell of a PG. Just cuz he can score well, doesnt make him less of a PG in todays game. In fact playing the way he does is the way of 85%-90% of the PG's in the NBA.

I'm convinced that unless someone has Mark Jackson type numbers/mentality, they aren't deemed a good PG by most of PD. Which is sad bc they're missing a hell of an evolution in a player.

F-in stupid.

Ace, I don't think most people are looking at it that way. They want George Hill on the floor. They just are desperate to find someone else to help with offense and scoring.

Those proposing another point guard are missing, in my opinion, the obvious solution: Lance.

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"I like our group of people," Ainge told USA Today. "I'm trying to teach them about basketball, and they're trying to teach me about analytics."

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Has everyone seen what AJ has been doing lately. PGs come here and suck, go elsewhere and improve drastically. I have no problem trying the DJ, Hill, George, west, Hibbs line up tonight. Let's see what a Bhans, lance, young, thans, miles second unit can do. Tonight is the night to try it.

I second the thought of going after livingston. Cut Pendergraph already please!!!!!! I could fall in a hole everyday and suffer less injuries per year than this guy. Should have cut him and kept Lou anyways.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Does anyone else think that this team misses having Bird's aura around it? Like him or not, Bird is a top 5 all time player who commands instant respect and credibility from any young NBA player. It's not everyday that an NBA legend drafts you on his team. Last year's team was "his guys". His hanging around practice, motivating the players, being in the locker room, etc, all had to be a positive influence on our young team.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Does anyone else think that this team misses having Bird's aura around it? Like him or not, Bird is a top 5 all time player who commands instant respect and credibility from any young NBA player. It's not everyday that an NBA legend drafts you on his team. Last year's team was "his guys". His hanging around practice, motivating the players, being in the locker room, etc, all had to be a positive influence on our young team.

No really, to me last year because of the short season the Pacers were able to overachieve, not only that but a lot of key players in the NBA were hurt (Howard,Bosh,Rose,Amare,etc).

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Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Why not just do that same thing with him on the 2nd unit. Ask him how he wants to run the offense and give it a try. DJ, Lance, Hans, IM and either Plumlee or OJ. Run, jump and hit people. Young needs to marinate in the sauce for a while. I would still make Tyler shoot 500 jump shots a day and fine him for every one he misses over 50%. See if Brad Miller would be willing to work with him a couple of hours a day. This guy is totallly being wasted, or is a waste of time. We need to find out soon. Tyler came in here with a decent jumpshot and good leadership skills, he has neither now.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

No really, to me last year because of the short season the Pacers were able to overachieve, not only that but a lot of key players in the NBA were hurt (Howard,Bosh,Rose,Amare,etc).

Yeah, I agree with all of that too. We were extremely healthy. Wasn't the George Hill injury the only significant injury for our team? Also, many of the older teams were not in shape when the season started and we were able to beat several quality teams early on. Playing a compact schedule with our young healthy legs was a big advantage for us.

I know there are several threads trying to decipher why we aren't very good right now, but for me it's pretty simple. We are without Granger and Collison, two of the best players on our team last year. They created instant offense. We haven't been able to come close to replacing either of them. The new players aren't any good so far, and the guys who were on the team last year haven't improved enough to make up the difference. When you take two of your best players away and don't have anyone solid who can replace them, then it shouldn't be a surprise when you aren't nearly as good. The Granger situation obviously isn't the Pacers fault, but Collison sure as hell is.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

My guess is he is so overwhelmed (angry, nutty, etc.) that he decided to hold his fire as long as he can. He deferred to DD, who wrote a similar type of post, and Peck made a long comment, but is saving his gunpowder.

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"I like our group of people," Ainge told USA Today. "I'm trying to teach them about basketball, and they're trying to teach me about analytics."

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Has everyone seen what AJ has been doing lately. PGs come here and suck, go elsewhere and improve drastically. I have no problem trying the DJ, Hill, George, west, Hibbs line up tonight. Let's see what a Bhans, lance, young, thans, miles second unit can do. Tonight is the night to try it.

I second the thought of going after livingston. Cut Pendergraph already please!!!!!! I could fall in a hole everyday and suffer less injuries per year than this guy. Should have cut him and kept Lou anyways.

AJ has been just as awful as he was here. The difference is he's starting and getting the opportunity to put up shots and run the pick n roll A LOT. He drives Wizards fans on twitter just as nuts as he did the people on here with his shot selection, its pretty funny.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

AJ has been just as awful as he was here. The difference is he's starting and getting the opportunity to put up shots and run the pick n roll A LOT. He drives Wizards fans on twitter just as nuts as he did the people on here with his shot selection, its pretty funny.

Yeah, AJ is shooting 31% from the floor (and 30% from 3), not exactly stellar numbers (though, granted, he's shooting the ball twice as well as DJ Augustin...)

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

The saddest part of this stupid game:

We got beat handily in the second half by a team without 4 key rotation players: Love/Rubio/Barea/Roy. Pekovic wasn't anything special last night...and we still lost to fricking Ridnour/Budinger and company. Embarrassing.

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Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Green is notorious defensively for ball watching (which is funny, because offensively as a guy who's trying to backdoor for oops all the time, you'd think he'd get why that's not such a good idea). Don't know if coaching can change that or what, but he shouldn't be on the floor for the last defensive possession.

Re: Pacers/Minny postgame thread.

Green is notorious defensively for ball watching (which is funny, because offensively as a guy who's trying to backdoor for oops all the time, you'd think he'd get why that's not such a good idea). Don't know if coaching can change that or what, but he shouldn't be on the floor for the last defensive possession.

I don't think it's just Green. Seems a lot of players are prone to watching the ball on D, especially Hibbert. He'll lose his guy often and give up the offensive rebound.

First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.