You do realize the blood elves have metric fucktons of priests to do the whole revival thing, no corpse rot required, right?

reviving the dead may be a common game mechanic, but it's not even nearly as common from a lore PoV. it's a miracle, not the sort of thing you see everyday. if reviving the dead was easy, no one would ever worry about dying, or cry for their dead.

undeath on the other hand, seems to be pretty easy to achieve. even strong feelings can turn people into some types of undead (like ghosts). meryl winterstorm (or meryl felstorm, now that he was possessed by a dreadlord and became a warlock) became undead because he wanted to (he'd die otherwise).

When Sylvanas took control of Arthas' Val'lyr after he was defeated she found a way to increase the population of her Forsaken ( i suggest reading WolfHeart for more details or do forsaken starter quests), there is no doubt in my mind that Sylvanas has been secretly turning her "fellow" horde members into forsaken since the start of cataclysm aswell the alliance races (Besides worgen because of their immunity and also Deathknight Worgen should be deleted from game) her forsaken cut down during her expansion outwards from tirisfal glades.

DK worgen were created when the Lich King was around. The Val'kyr are far weaker than they were and I they're only able to raise Humans (However, the val'kyr were only able to reanimate human corpses as Forsaken; http://www.wowpedia.org/Val'kyr Part of the Forsaken) and that's likely (speculation) due to Humans being the next link in the chain to Vrykul. I supposed Half-Elves could potentially be risen, but the Dark Rangers were former banshees raised by the Lich King around the same time as Sylvanus and like Sylvanus they found their old bodies and control them (http://www.wowpedia.org/Dark_ranger). They also gained their independence from the Lich King a the same time as Sylvanus.

"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

Has Sylvanas become powerful enough to create Death Knights? It would seem that she is now the most powerful necromancer around lore wise. It seems like she is powering up through the expansions, she might soon be stronger than the Lich King.

Except she's not doing the actual necromancy. The val'kyr are doing the raising.

Those who you know as Warlocks are your Salvation through Destruction. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

I posted this in a separate thread yesterday but I believe that Sylvanas is going to finally see her sister Vereesa Windrunner during the Siege of Orgrimmar. Vereesa was with Jaina for the entirety of the Isle of Thunder, so it's plausible to believe that she will also be Jaina's lieutenent during the Siege. This makes things very interesting because Jaina and Lor'themar interact, and it's clear that Sylvanas is with Lor'themar during the Siege. So there is a small chance that Vereesa and Sylvanas might come face-to-face, which might explain Lor'themar's quote in his sound files where he asks about 'what has come over our Dark Lady?'

I also predict that after the SoO that the Horde vs Alliance war will reach it's final conclusion

This much we can all agree on; which means Sylvanas would have to find new alliances excuse the pun, and not worry so much about waging war. Her battle with Arthas complete, she prolly moves on now to help out Illidan and Malfurion (with Tyrande and Alleria) in some capacity to fight demons or undo the Wells' legacy effects.

the forsaken give you a choice, you can stay undead, have a new chance, live indefinitely and never suffer from the basic necessities of the living in exchange for some rotting flesh and bad smell, or you can just go back to being dead, and stay that way.

maybe some people would, you know, like to be back on their feet. but no. don't revive my people, sylvanas. they are dead and I like them dead!

It is ultimately his choice to let his people rest, blood elves don't look kindly on undeath, they pity those ,who have been resurrected. It might be a offer for a second lfe, but given the nature of necromancy and the experience the elves had with it his reaction is absolutely reasonable.

Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-06-21 at 06:40 AM.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Hence the question, you guys; What does Lor'Themar words mean? did she managed to hack the Valkyries to resurrect blood elves -a side effect from her own valkyr powered ressurrection- or is it just about more ordinary uses for body parts?

It could be either or just basic assumptions after her "demonstrations" for garrosh in silverpine and word spread. I mean if you were the leader of the remainder of your people after an undead scourge almost totalled them, woudlnt you be at bit on edge with someone everyone in game seems to think is going the same way as arthas? I mean look at his perspective in particular, he was their and knows sylvanas should know better. Arguments of "holding the eastern kingdoms" aside that is something very emotionally charged for lore'themar. He wouldnt like to see someone raising his people or even using their bodies as spare parts. Nobody would but his people have a special reason to hate it.
That and look at the perspective right now. Lore'themar lead the hordes fight against the thunder king whereas sylvanas lore wise has at this point been seen doing bugger all. Thats going to give him a confidence boost. I think honestly he's just saying what every none forsaken would be thinking really.

the forsaken give you a choice, you can stay undead, have a new chance, live indefinitely and never suffer from the basic necessities of the living in exchange for some rotting flesh and bad smell, or you can just go back to being dead, and stay that way.

maybe some people would, you know, like to be back on their feet. but no. don't revive my people, sylvanas. they are dead and I like them dead!

And Lor'Themar, her ally, tells her that the Blood Elves shall not be resurrected.
Sylvanas listens and there is no need for this thread.

They won't kill off Sylvanas that quickly. She'll become a villain in the end though, with the new forsaken, use of the plague and torture of Koltira they're setting her up that way. Just wait and see, next expansion we'll be introduced to a new character who'll eventually become her replacement. Or an existing character who she raises after death.

Why everyone is so "Oh, how can Sylvanas resurrect people as undead, it's so bad"?
They are already dead anyway, so what's the problem? Forsaken have free will and can defy Dark Lady completely, if so they wish - they are not slaves as the Scourge. They are given a second chance after death. Sure, they rot a bit, and stink, and so on - but that's still better than oblivion!

Really hope Sylva won't become a new villain. She makes a very intersting and original positive hero with her methods.
Not every good character has to be a sterotypical paladin.

To life, to life I'll bring them,
I'll bring all these dead men to life!

They won't kill off Sylvanas that quickly. She'll become a villain in the end though, with the new forsaken, use of the plague and torture of Koltira they're setting her up that way. Just wait and see, next expansion we'll be introduced to a new character who'll eventually become her replacement. Or an existing character who she raises after death.

Oh please, the Forsaken were always known for questionable methods. Alot of old Forsaken quests were like "woah, doing Nazi experiments now" and nobody cared.
Why are people so bent on killing every lore charcter with a bit of a dark side? That's so boring.

Oh please, the Forsaken were always known for questionable methods. Alot of old Forsaken quests were like "woah, doing Nazi experiments now" and nobody cared.
Why are people so bent on killing every lore charcter with a bit of a dark side? That's so boring.

Because she's beginning to cross the line where she becomes a threat to her allies as well as her their mutual enemies. Same reason why Garrosh is the bad guy now.

Because she's beginning to cross the line where she becomes a threat to her allies as well as her their mutual enemies. Same reason why Garrosh is the bad guy now.

Where exactly does she become a threat to her allies?

Raising new Forsaken? Sorry, but how else should she bolster her ranks? There are only so much living reinforcements. Would you suggest she'd rather abandon Lordaeron? How would that move benefit her allies?

Disciplining an subordinate (Koltira) who's slacking because he's BFF with the Alliance general (Thassarian)? While I can sympathise with Koltira and Sylvanas maybe too harsh on him, he had it coming.

The new plague? Well, chemical and biological warfare has been part of the Forsaken since forever (see "woah, doing Nazi experiments now"). And it is a bigger threat to her allies now because?

Raising new Forsaken? Sorry, but how else should she bolster her ranks? There are only so much living reinforcements. Would you suggest she'd rather abandon Lordaeron? How would that move benefit her allies?

Disciplining an subordinate (Koltira) who's slacking because he's BFF with the Alliance general (Thassarian)? While I can sympathise with Koltira and Sylvanas maybe too harsh on him, he had it coming.

The new plague? Well, chemical and biological warfare has been part of the Forsaken since forever (see "woah, doing Nazi experiments now"). And it is a bigger threat to her allies now because?

It has been forbidden, the Horde as a whole didn't know about the Forsaken Plague, if you quested during Vanilla their plague was played off to other parts of the Horde as a "cure to their...ailment".

They won't kill off Sylvanas that quickly. She'll become a villain in the end though, with the new forsaken, use of the plague and torture of Koltira they're setting her up that way. Just wait and see, next expansion we'll be introduced to a new character who'll eventually become her replacement. Or an existing character who she raises after death.

What's wrong with the new Forsaken?
After the use of the Mana-bomb I don't think anyone will ever complain about the plague.
What Koltira did would have given him an execution in most armies, so no.

Originally Posted by Argyn

Because she's beginning to cross the line where she becomes a threat to her allies as well as her their mutual enemies. Same reason why Garrosh is the bad guy now.

Koltira is particularly a problem because he straddles the boundary between a member of the Forsaken/Horde, and a Knight of the Ebon Blade, which are in turn allied with the Argent Crusade. Neither Darion Mograine or Tirion Fordring won't take kindly to the things she's doing. In torturing Koltira into submission and raising new Forsaken she's, like Garrosh said, becoming no different from the Lich King.

She even admits it, the only difference is "I serve the Horde." As soon as others perceive that's no longer the case, they'll turn on her. Little things like Lor'thremar's new dialogue are only the beginning.

What Koltira did would have given him an execution in most armies, so no.

In most other armies there would've been a ceasefire, the only reason why the Sylvanus pushed for an offensive was because the forsaken don't need rest while Humans need it. Granted the Alliance broke the ceasefire by way of the Farmers rushing, who didn't consult or co-ordinate with Thassarian, but Sylvanus would've broken it shortly after.

"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

Yes, because Garrosh is the person that deserves an entire paper on how Sylvanas is not like the Lich King.

Garrosh comes in and starts raging and whining, so she basically tells him to 'shut the f* up'.

Little things like Lor'thremar's new dialogue are only the beginning.

The beginning of what?
He tells her not to raise Sin'dorei, she listens to him and that's the end of this conversation.

I always have to laugh at comments like yours.
"This is the beginning of Sylvanas turning evil and her end!"
Yeaaah right, you'd be more convincing if people haven't been yelling that for the last 5 years.