Today at Occupy Wall Street we are looking across the country to the city of Oakland, where last night our fellow Americans were subjected to violence at the hands of their own government for exercising the constitutional freedoms their government is sworn to protect. Last night police forces violently raided Occupy Oakland, arresting 85 people and brutalizing many peaceful participants, using excessive physical force, tear gas, and dangerous projectile rounds.

Peaceful Protest is An American Birthright, Not a Crime

Among those injured is Scott Olson, a Marine Corps veteran who served in Iraq. Olsen is in the hospital with a fractured skull.

“Scott is in stable but serious condition as the neurologists decide whether to take him into surgery or the ICU,” said Joshua Shepherd, a friend of Olsen’s. “Oakland Police Department fired a tear gas canister at his head, fracturing his skull.”

It is unconscionable that American government officials would sanction the use of such extreme force against peaceful citizens.

Occupy Oakland has been a public forum, set up on public land, concerned with critical public issues about the nation’s financial crisis, consolidation of wealth and power, and the ability of citizens to meaningfully participate in the democratic process.
This brutality carried out on the orders of city government, sends a chilling message to those who want to engage in civic processes to work for social change.

Over a month ago, we went to the doorstep of Wall Street to say "enough!" That message has resonated across the country and around the world. Occupy Wall Street continues to build, and a national movement of peaceful occupations and civic engagement has sprung up in every corner.

Public officials must listen to the grievances of this popular movement. It is absolutely unacceptable to attempt to dissuade civic engagement through the use of brutality, repression and retaliation against movement participants. This is America. All Americans have the freedom to peacefully protest our government. That right defines who we are as a country and a people, and when it is denied, all of America is the poorer for it.

The Mayor of Oakland — and mayors and city governments across the country — should get on the right side of history and honor all Americans' freedom to peacefully assemble and to civically engage.

We call on all concerned people to send Oakland Mayor Quan a message that the actions she sanctioned are unconscionable. We ask supporters to please sign this petition to Mayor Quan and to forward it:

496 Comments

To think that I took an oath and wore the uniform of this country, in order to represent and defend the rights of the people, as stated in our constitution and bill of rights, just to have these thugs dressed in police uniforms perpetrate multi-violations of peoples constitutional and civil rights, is a total disgrace and hypocrisy of what this country and it's laws is suppose to stand for. And because I know the difference between right and wrong, just and unjust, you better believe that I am no longer going to just stand by and watch. The time has come to give my support, and I urge all those who happen to read this, to search your conscience and do the same.

Charlie Rose's introduction on his October 24th 2011 broadcast, he questions whether the OWS movement will endure...this is a silly question. There is nothing new about this greed, nor is it any secret that when people get fed up that they will rebel. What might separate this movement is that We the People have the knowledge, skill and power to herald in veritable change, not a compromise with an inherently unethical system. Yes, we will endure, it will grow, no doubt about it.

All that this protest demonstrates is the growing gap between the rich and the poor, and that was inevitable, you should have started this protest in the 80s when the middle class started to disappear. Its too little too late now, all this protest can hope to accomplish is to annoy the real 99% and increase political strife between the rich and the poor, just accept you're poor and move on.

Excellent Quote! The US Government are masters at instilling fear unto any group and or country. They are lashing out so that the Occupiers buckle. It is now the 1% with aid of "your government" in their back pocket (for now) that is living in fear. Like some 1%ers have said, they'd die before giving a nickle, plus they are using your tax dollars to beat you back. Pardon the expression, but kinda like ripping your arm off and beating you with the wet end. Bush tried this tactic in other countries, even on your war veterans, but it does not work, and this is why I agree with your quote. They will never show this on the media, thus continue the violence. Hmm not much different then some current regimes... Keep up the good fight.

Someone (with artistic abilities) should make posters with a mirrored image, half the poster would be the police pointing guns at peaceful protesters behind the barricades, the other half would be the SS pointing guns at the Jews behind barbed wire. Maybe the uniformed officers of today will see similarities and start to feel ashamed... deep down they must know what they are doing is wrong

In solidarity to all of the occupy movements we, the 99% should begin a occupy your local city counsel meeting. Every city has a city counsel meeting, most of the are televised no mater how small the town. No matter who you are, you and 20 to 25 other people each get 3 minutes to say what you want. if you spend a week putting together some serious dialog that could be continued by the next person; then the next person, and so on, you could literally dictate the city counsel meetings (every one of them). I'm not just talking just one meeting , but every meeting, in every city, in every state!

I continue to be amazed at the creative ideas that continue to arise herein about ways to disrupt everything. With that kind of creativity, I am only saddened at the waste of potential.

Businesses could be started, services could be provided, counseling could be scheduled, restaurants could open to serve the working people, .. .. .. .. .. .. .. but instead, we are giving all these talents to the rich who probably really don't even want them or know that they exist, but they must be smiling at the total waste of potential while they plan to open a new chain restaurant, a big box store or something else where you stand.

What?! Why would you resort to name calling? I don't even know you, you don't know me, pretty presumptuous statement though. First, how do you know im participating? Second, assuming I am "participating" in this movement, who's orders would I be following? How is participating in something the same as blindly following orders? I think you're trying to get a rise out of me, but that's just FOOLish, it won't work. I was simply referring to the nuremberg defense, which means, "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal."

There really are a lot of clueless people (including justices and civic leaders) who ignore the phrase "shall make no law..." and appear to think that its ok to watter down the first amendment by petty city ordinances; and these people seem to think that these ordinances give government a perfectly reasonable excuse to brutally attack their own citizens in a manner truly disproportinate to any harm they supposibly preventing; these people need a real wake up call.

There is a reason why the 2nd amendment follows the first one... and it has a lot to do with what happens when the government of the day refuses to let its people peacefully petition it for redress of grievances.

I truly hope it doesn't come to that, but if the government does not figure out how to address the systemic issues which have led to these uprisings, and continues to beat up its own people, then sooner or later there will be a proper revolution in America.

There really are a lot of clueless people (including justices and civic leaders) who ignore the phrase "shall make no law..." and appear to think that its ok to watter down the first amendment by petty city ordinances; and these people seem to think that these ordinances give government a perfectly reasonable excuse to brutally attack their own citizens in a manner truly disproportinate to any harm they supposibly preventing; these people need a real wake up call.

There is a reason why the 2nd amendment follows the first one... and it has a lot to do with what happens when the government of the day refuses to let its people peacefully petition it for redress of grievances.

I truly hope it doesn't come to that, but if the government does not figure out how to address the systemic issues which have led to these uprisings, and continues to beat up its own people, then sooner or later there will be a proper revolution in America.

The world we live in can be a scary place. Every day it seems that analysts warn of impending disasters – whether in the form of crumbling economies or food shortages, global climate change, weapons of mass destruction and so much more. Most of us have enough to worry about just taking care of our own families, let alone trying to do something to benefit others, and for those of us who try to make the world a better place – none of us know where to start. Even our leaders seem incapable of fixing the problems facing our world today.
As times become harder and harder for the average person to make ends meet and provide for our loved ones, we've taken to the streets in protest. Whether its the Arab Spring, the riots in England or now the Occupy Wall Street movement, there is no denying our lack of patience with the world today. We are fed up and ticked off and we're showing the world we are not going to take it anymore. But what are we saying to the 1%, really? Are we promoting civil responsibility, or just spreading our anger? Are we stomping out the flame, or just adding another log to the fire? Are we creating solutions, or are we just another part of of the problem? This is not how we fix our world – through hate.
Changing the world is not difficult, but it takes all of us. If we want to fix the problem, it is up to us to become the solution. If we want to fix the world, all we need to do is inspire people to care about each other once again, especially the 1%. How do we do this, you ask? Easy. Instead of a picket sign, occupy Wall Street with a grill and some tailgate supplies. Invite all the homeless to come down and join us for burgers and ribs like it was a Sunday afternoon and we're ready for some football. While you're at it, bring with you some old clothes you don't wear anymore – and some blankets. Help those who are less fortunate than us to survive yet another cold and bitter winter, and invite the executives in their corner offices to come join us as well.
If we want to fix the world, all it takes is a little Love. All we gotta do is show the 1% that we take responsibility for each other – and we won't have to ask them to do the same for us – because we will inspire them to follow our lead. That's how we change the world, but I cannot do it alone, nor can you. It takes all of us. So spread the word, start marinatin' those ribs and get ready to start cloggin' up some arteries like only a good 'ol fashion American barbeque can, because we – the 99% – we are the world, therefore we are the solution. Peace be upon you all, and plus one for the heroes!

Well put!
That may be too mundane to those who want to be HEARD.
Too many are ready to criticize and complain and say things need to be fixed. Occupying public spaces will get us noticed, but what is it they are hearing from us? Are they getting positive suggestions for doable action? Or are they just getting "We don't like what you have done and we want you to fix it."
Is it not reasonable to believe that if they created the mess, they are unlikely to be able or willing to fix it? Otherwise they would not have created it in the first place.
No, I am not talking about Obama, this mess has been decades in the making, he just happened to get stuck with being in place when it "imploded."

EXECTLY RICK, even with the jobs bill. That's just lunacy. Start now in transforming our energy grid for solar and wind and to do that we need to overthrow wallst and congress. Big oil wants nothing to do with smart, they just want profit. profit over people/earth. This planet can care for all of us if we just take it back from those bastards

And finally we find someone (uptac) that has money in their pocket to do something like transforming our energy grid. Man, if we can just make wallstreet and congress disappear, we can do great things.

What goals would make you less obnoxious? I think there are a few fundamental goals. Get money out of politics, end corporate personhood, tax reform, and I think we all want accountability. Accountability for the people who have taken bailouts while being the perpetuators of the financial crises, while then paying themselves huge bonuses. This is all just skimming the surface, but I believe the grievances far outweigh any inconveniences this movement may have caused you, if at all.

What we need to do is class action lawsuit. This would serve a two fold purpose:
1) To hit them in the pocket were it hurst them the most.
2) to keep them in the courts (less police in the streets) were they belong.

Great idea "P". But I just don't understand why we need a few hundred more millionaire lawyers up there in the 1%. But go ahead, you can continue to spend your money however you like and send your chosen ones to the big 1%. Sure they will be more than happy with your help and will continue to be symphathic to you from up there in the 1%.

Have you never been through a class-action law suite before. I got a check once for $5.45 in one of those things. The lawyers took the rest of the 7.5M% of the settlement. GREAT IDEA.

This week, without regulatory approval, BAC moved $75 TRILLION of toxic derivatives to its banking division so that the FDIC guarantees the bad gambling debt! On Wednesday, October 19, 2011, in a CONSPICUOUSLY QUIET piece of HUGE news, the FDIC guaranteed the gambling debt of Bank of America in the tune of $75TRILLION of toxic derivatives! This is a direct transfer of toxic gambling risk onto the backs of American taxpayers done by the bank without approval by regulators and without public input! And, apparently, JP Morgan is looking to do the same thing with its toxic derivatives.

Moving derivatives contracts between units of a bank holding company is limited under Section 23A of the Federal Reserve Act, which is designed to prevent a lender’s affiliates from benefiting from its federal subsidy and to protect the bank from excessive risk originating at the non-bank affiliate. In 2009, the Fed granted Section 23A exemptions to the BANKING arms of certain financial institutions. The central bank terminated those exemptions in 2010. Moreover, the exemptions are not intended to guarantee an AFFILIATE’s INVESTMENT GAMBLING DEBT on the backs of American taxpayers.

We’ve heard it all before… BAC is too big to fail. We cannot allow the banking system to collapse, etc., etc. Inside a world of proper fiduciary care exercised by banks, I agree. However, banks have gambled away their privilege to the Fed discount window like a bunch of drunken sailors on a one-night drinking binge. The banks have moved beyond wreaking havoc on American taxpayers and have thrown widows and orphans into the mix.

We are now standing SQUARELY in the EYE of the financial HURRICAN, and this conspicuously QUIET piece of HUGELY significant enabling news is swept under the rug. All in the name of enabling PSYCHOPATHIC BANKERS to contain the toxic contagion effect of their bad gambling debt on the books of PSYCHOPATHIC BANKERS across the pond.

This is not capitalism! This is AMERICAN SOCIALISM (privatize profits, socialize risks) in the guise of capitalism! And, to this day, NOT ONE (1) PSYCHOPATHIC BANKER, or the multitude of complicit politicians are behind bars! Nor has the U.S. seized any assets used in this corruption, nor seized any of the ill-gotten spoils of their misadventures.

Instead, POLITICIANS draft laws to protect and absolve their crony PSYCHOPATHIC BANKERS from any wrong doing, while bankrupting pensions, dissolving collective bargaining rights and shackling multiple generations of Americans in debt, only to become indentured servitudes to the PSYCHOPATHIC BANKERS that got us into this mess in the first place. Around and around we go.

Give me a FREAKING break!!!

By the way, facts according to various news sources…

(1) BAC has moved $75T of toxic derivatives from its investment affiliate to its banking division, which has access to FDIC insurance.

(2) JPM, Wells Fargo, et.al., is looking to move another $75T or more of toxic derivatives from their investment affiliates to their banking divisions, which have access to FDIC insurance.

(3) The FDIC and Fed will backstop over $150T of toxic derivatives when the European tsunami hits our shore.

(4) The GDP for the entire planet is $65T. The GDP for the entire U.S. is $15T. That’s $500,000 of toxic derivatives for every man, woman, child, widow and orphan in the U.S. That’s criminal! That’s American Socialism (privatize profits, socialize risks) in the guise of capitalism, and it must end!

And this is the source that we must get everyone focused on. These kind of things have been going on since 2008 in this kind of big way. A plan to get the message out and tell everyone that we will not perish without thses banks and institutions.
We must get out, a way, show people that there is a different way. Not socialism or unionism, but a fair and balanced way. Remove the goal of profit and the worship of power through money.
extremism is not what people can hear. They need to see that WE can overthrow, and what we can put in its place is going to.....

The idea of the banks recovering the loss thru selling the property is, at this time, ludicrous

Idea: Banks should be required to ' Suspend' payments and interest accumulation if a person loses their job during an 'economic downturn' until that person finds a comparable paying job or until the national unemployment rate is less than 5%.

Tell your neighbors what you know, tell your family and friends. Don't be afraid of their ignorance and fear promoting backlash.

There must be and information war aimed at arming the public with the bankers secrets and good knowledge of the corrupt cartel that runs USA and much of the world, for its own massive profit and personal wealth - got from YOU.

Why are you all shook up over this little $75T thingy, all of a sudden. Doesn't the rich have all kinds of money to cover this, we can just tax the rich of cover it, RIGHT? We will call it our "redistribution to save your country" program.

Oh, right, we have a big protest going to take that money from the rich and give it to someone else under the "redistribution to save some of the people" program.

I think I am beginning to see a little bit of a problem here arising between the "people" and the "country". I am getting even more scared.

This brutality is COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!!!! Who in the hell do these assholes (the city officials AND police who are doing this) think they are???? These actions PROVE that our system is FUCKING BROKEN AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

SwissMiss
I know with your brilliant command of our language, you must be just the person to fix whats wrong. Yes, I'm being facetious.
Diatribes such as yours are just the ammunition critics need to discount what we are doing; and to dissuade reasonable but undecided potential supporters.

You certainly have the right to express your concerns, yet it would be more effective if you chose to do so in a civilized manner. Use of such violent words mirrors the very violence you as so angered by. I do agree many issues need to be addressed, but they can only really be addressed if we remember that we are ALL consequences of our environments. This policemen, who abused their positions, are still our fellow human beings. We need to reach out to them, to help them step away their constructed police identities so we can engage in constructive dialogue.

Something you need to understand is that the mayor is actually a life long progressive. I've known her. Grew up in the same district (dimond) she long represented, and went to school when she was on the school board in the same district. She was always looked upon well. A progressive. At the start of the occupation she enthusiastically stated her support for it. And I believed her.

She was hard nosed ont he last police chief who was forced to resign due to failing to address some seriously needed reforms on the force. So again she appears to be ont he right side. the kind of mayor you want right now. (Although perhaps getting us a temporary police chief at a time like this is a problem....)

BUT THEN this while she is out of the country. I am surprised. She claims there was evidence of violence at the occupation, and the city had to intervene. As far as I know thats just another BS line that has been thrown out at every eviction throughout the country. I've not seen any proof of this claims and would like to see it presented IMMEDIATELY for all to see.

That said... I feel betrayed. This wasn't an Obama who was an obvious shill from day one - to me anyway. This was a lifelong public servant with a proven record. What happened? Recalling her doesn't solve the problem. At this time she was the best that we could do. She needs to be challenged to answer for these actions.

"...there was evidence of violence..." If that were the case, you address the few bad apples. Instead, they came in with full riot gear, in force, with their percussion grenades and tear gas, firing direction into the entire crowd. That's not addressing a few individuals who may have been violent, that is if there even were any. The videos show thousands marching peacefully.

One officer shot a tear gas canister directly at the crowd, hitting one individual, Scott, in the head, causing significant enough injury for a hospital to consider surgery. Now that's evidence of a crime, not for Scott, but to identify that officer as there is an injured party who is came back from Iraq to get injured in America at a peace rally! Go figure!!!

PS
Who was in commande in the Mayor's absence? That's who you go after!

I agree with you but i want to clarify something. The mayor said something about violence and assaults happening between the time the camp was established and the eviction notice was given. So that is what I want evidence of. If they are using that as the pretext I want them to prove it. And then we can have the discussion about how their action was unjustifiable.

The point is that we should be putting them on the defensive at every turn. If they claim something happened make them prove it. If they do not offer credible evidence, call them on that. THEN follow up with in anycase their actions are completely unjustifiable. Hit them from every angle and make them give ground.

This is the police force that has gotten away with practically executing people in Oakland. It is disgusting and it is time for people to stand up against the brutality that is levied on minority communities.

I totally agree, and people all over the country need to do this. The NYPD has a history of violence against citizens who've done nothing wrong. I'm sure many other police forces do as well. I bet most are criminal in some way or another. I have some friends who are or have been police officers. They've told me there's more crime that happens on the inside than what happens on the outside. I wouldn't doubt that one bit.

"Who in the hell do these assholes (the city officials AND police who are doing this) think they are????"

The police is an instrument of the business-run state to try to crush the ones who want to take back from the wealthy what has been stolen thru bailouts, exploitation and speculation at the stock exchange. The cops are doing what theyre told to do - the elites are starting to feel threatened, so they want to stop you. The finacial elite will however fail. The people are more powerful than private tyranny and its servants.

Yes. The police are puppets of the criminals. They are just as guilty if they are going to carry out this crap. They could ban together and refuse to brutalize peaceful protesters if they really, deep down in their hearts, were on the side of the protesters. There are police officers who feed off of this crap, though. There are many who love "to show authority". More Military personnel need to get in the faces of these officers and scream at them like the Marine in NYC did. The cops obviously were scared of him and didn't challenge him at all and went away.

This country is such a god damn farce in so many ways. We're fed bullshit and lies all the time.

that said... cutting and running is not the thing to do. Stick your feet in the ground and push back. Theres more of us than the 1% could ever throw in our way. And thats why they are scared.

Neither does provoking the police help. Certainly not in Oakland. There is a long history there. Black Panthers began here - some of them still live here. Angela Davis still criticizes police policy here. The kind of force we are seeing in oakland isn't all that unusual. Its considered a "black" city nation wide and easily discounted in the national media as such.

The reason for these extreme measures is both the history of conflict between activists and the police that has continued to the present day, and that this might be a test to see how much brutality that "they" can get away with. After all its just Oakland.... you knwo the place with the port that feeds the entire country with crap in trucks straight from china that gets sold at wallmart. ports are a funny thing. back in 1919 there were some events at ports. you can bet that at the federal level there is fear of this occupation sprreading to the port.

I would prefer that the occupation not take those tactics, but I suspect that oakland is considered an important city by the federal gov't because if it becomes sympathetic with the occupation... commerce could get shutdown very easily.

After what just happened, it would be entirely justifiable to blockade the harbor against any and all shipping. A longshoreman's strike, which would prevent loading and unloading, would be enough. Now way all those cops can load and unload shiploads of trash bound for Wal-Mart on the way to our landfills on their own! They would not even be able to operate the specialized equipment.

Not a good idea though. I'm not ready to face teflon coated bullets, mustard gas, and teh goons from XE/blackwater invading my home. I need to get every martial artist in the bay area and all of the police departments and maybe even the national guard before we would attempt such a thing.

Make no mistake. This is just the beginning. And excessive force is the name of the game that these hardliners play. I have no illusions about such things not happening in the US. The bush administration set the stage with the patriot act. We need to play this smart. Because we may have the moral high ground, and the numbers. But we don't have the US military nor the money to buy military contractors/assassins.

First get the police on your side then contemplate actions like a longshoreman's strike.

Amen, in fact the best advice on tactics in this forum I found in a 3hr old post. It's titled "disarming" the police, by justvisiting1. Whoever wrote that is a genius, it's an incredible read and sage advice for OWS.

in the forum, the title of that thread is "disarming" the police and it was posted by justvisiting1. it was created 12 hrs ago, just goto the page with all the posts, and scroll down till you see that thread title.

I fear if the ports were to get involved you would not just see Oakland police involved, and if the police, the national guard, and the military refused to step in to protect the ports you would see foreign troops doing it. The ports are leased by foreign companies. Look it up, it's freighting.

I'm well aware. And I agree with you on the part of national troops getting involved (to say nothing of the cia's drones and military contractors) BUT you won't see foreign troops. i can't see the US military allowing foreign troops to enter the country under arms.

And what part of history are we so hung up on today. Perhaps one of the great epics: creation, the fall of man, the flood, prophesy that comes true, the teaching of Jesus

Or shall we consider man's great accomplishments: Slavery, the little thing with Hitler, How about that great success story of Russia or Cuba or the evolving carnival with the cancer stricken Dude, how about our great approach to the Native Americas, of even the latest - Gaddafi and Sadam, How about that nobel cause of Osama.

I agree with that fully. We continue to reproduce and to discount our history and world history. Ask ten people under the age of 18 and see what they learned from the holocaust or World War I or any of that history that was so "out there" that we thought that no person alive today wouldn't learn from our experiences.

been in jail more than once. they don't really have things with buttons there. the tv, i guess, but you can do that at home, so i am confused about the connection between buttons and jail. at any rate, jail's not that bad. state pen is a bit different!

OK, put Herman back inside your pants. Do you really think you're the first person to say this to us? And do you think you're the first person to whom we've replied "most of us have jobs, and there's an enormous disproportion between those who need work and the number of jobs available, which is why other people don't just up and get jobs, and why we stand behind them"? But you are a first - you're the first person whom I'm going to ask: do you have any human sympathy whatsoever?

I got some job recommendations too. The oil-gas fields are booming in N Dakota. My friend is up there now. No work here so he made his way about a 1,000 miles to find one. Hard to find a place to stay but he is making do. WalMart is usually hiring. At least 7 HELP WANTED signs between here and the mall. People coming over from Mexico seem to be finding jobs without a lot of trouble.

That is sympathy. If you are still without a job in a week or so, ask again about the sympathy thing.

Alright, you saw some help wanted signs. Fine. (also, you seem to be laboring under a misapprehension: I have a job; I'm talking about other people). But look at what you're really asking:

You're assuming that we should live at the perpetual favor of the Walton family, and people like them. You're saying that (for some reason) it's totally justified that one of the basic constituents of human society for the past several thousand years - communal stability - should be sacrificed so that an extremely small number of people can make more money than any human being actually needs to spend on all possible luxuries in a lifetime. I mean, really, that's what neoliberalism is all about, and that's why we're opposed to it. Before social programs that employed millions of people were cut back at the same time as the tax structure was changed to favor people, not who "worked harder," but who had the capital to invest could make money off of no labor - off of paying someone to invest their money in a progressively-unstable financial market. Social mobility has dropped severely since we started instituting these policies, and human mobility has increased enormously. These policies were not necessary for anything other than increasing the wealth of the already-wealthy. For decades, we did without them, and people were generally better-off.

Now, when people are laid off (they're not fired - please do not make the facile assumption that the right wing always tends to make that there was some huge pandemic of laziness around 2008 that led to huge employment losses), they're asked to move thousands of miles, away from everyone they know, just to work for far lower wages and no job security at, in your example, another plant in another industry that's destroying our environment (even if you don't believe in global warming, pollution is still an enormous problem - study after study has shown a direct correspondence between the increasing wealth of the already-rich and the declining health of the poor who go to work for them). And, of course, aside from destroying the environment, and thereby basically ruining the health of the people who work at these plants, these companies are also part of the general lobby against government-sponsored health care (when, more often than not, they're not providing health care themselves). And, of course, there's the fact that they're aiding and abetting the health insurance industry which, in addition to lobbying to destroy any serious national health care policy, is also driving up the cost of care for uninsured individuals because they have the leverage to bring down prices for themselves, and doctors compensate by passing on the cost to the uninsured.

So, in short, you're for:

Policies that require people that be uprooted from their communities so that they can go thousands of miles in search of low-wage, no benefit jobs which serve solely to add to the billions of CEOs and major shareholders.

Industries that destroy the basic conditions of a healthy life, causing people with low wages and no benefits to pay more of their hard-earned money than they can probably afford just to live.

That's not sympathy. If you read a book in the next week or so, call me again on my comments.

Well educated, I assume, and a job tool. Congratulations and welcome to the upper middle class. But could we lay a few ground rules here. You are welcome to interpret what I posted, but please identify it as your interpretation. You might say something such as:

"What I seem to read in your post is that you're for......." Don't just emphatically state: "in short, your're for" it isn't really a polite way for two educated people to communicate"

In short, I am not promoting policies that require people to be uprooted, but since our cottage industries and hometown industries were all killed off by big labor - what suggesting do you have?? I have seen the small manufacture try to stay in business in the area where I grew up only to be shut down because they couldn't complete with the big labor movement and their higher wages and benefits. Did you live through all of that? Those workers now drive 65-100 miles daily to their new job. Not uprooted at all, just much less well off than they were before. Now the same thing is happening to them again. One problem, this time they just cannot make the daily commute to China. So why isn't your complaint against the giant companies and their CEOs in China and their Chinese government or shareholders.
Seems to me like you might be a few years behind the trend. Are we just going to stay rooted and wait for the Chinese to being the jobs over here to our city, our street etc.

Those policies in England sure uprooted my family years ago, and they went a lot further than my friend to find work and the life they wanted. Same thing happened to the next generation. They had to move further on to maintain their livelihood. Then here I am out in the Southwest - because that was the only teaching jobs open when I graduated from college.

For the most mobile people in the world (America), you seem to advocate that it should be brought to the unemployed rather than them go to it (the job). Uprooting may be the price we pay for our
preferences.
The rest of your comment in 1. above, is just your interpretation of the situation, NOT mine.

And yeah, I am pretty well fed up with living in the shadow of these industries that destroy MY basic conditions of a healthy life just so that someone not from my little world can plug their computer into an electric socket and type away. Why should I suffer for someone else's convenience. It really is a tough decision. Sure, I would love to flip the big switch on that horrible power plant, but then my neighbor wouldn't have a $28.00 an hour job either, and yeah, we could probably knock his salary down to $7.50 an hour so that people with low wages and no benefits would have to pay less for their electricity or was it so that that big power company could make more money - doesn't really matter does it - some gain and some lose either way we go.

And I never faulted the Walton Family for what they do. They gave me a pretty cheap toaster, socks for $1.00 a pair, shirts for $3.50 and food that I can afford. And until Chevrolet can make a better vehicle than Kia or Toyota, I will be driving an inferior vehcile because I buy American when I can.I for one abhor the idea of a global economy and a global government but with the forces pushing us in that direction, I am still looking for ways to fend it off.

You can fault capitalism for many things, but the history shows that America grew under that system Until the first man came up with some form of "capital" he had to find or dig his own cave. This system has served us pretty well. Are their elements that went bad. Sur - but i would never advocate "throwing out the baby with the bath water" as the extreme correction of a problem. Also, I would not advocate my solution as the only one to correct the problem.

So far as I know, all books (with maybe one exception) were written by men trying to put forth their agenda - otherwise, why write. A rock makes a satisfactory coffee table decoration in my house.

And yes, I do read books. And, I personally like Zane Grey. Have you ever read a book by any author that could paint a better and more colorful picture of the Southwest using only black ink??

Sorry about the general toolishness of my response. Let's chalk it up to my having a bad day, and assuming you were one of the less civilized people who do regularly post pro-neoliberal posts on our site, when they're not outright insulting us. Although I will say that, on the whole, we're being too defeatist in the face of the constant offshoring of production, and on the generally downward trend of wages and health (and the environment, and, etc.). Maybe I don't have much of a solution besides government intervention, but that has worked in the past, when it was responsive to public outcries like the one we're doing here. People working in concert across the world can do a lot to push back against the illicit practices of larger corporations.

And you should fault the Walton family for what they do! Four of them are among the top earners in this country, each raking in several billion a year - do you know how much of an improvement in wages and health coverage that would pay for? Besides, it's fine and good for us to buy cheap goods from them, but they have practically raped the third world to get them.

Last, Zane Grey? I suppose. When I want nature, though, I go to Thoreau.

this is a "new" type of policing . . .it is brutal and unconscionable . . .i have read
that our police have been trained all over the country by the private army called XE (formerly known as Blackwater Security) .... they are headquartered in North Carollina and are made up of sociopaths who murdered women and children in iraq. . .that's where this monstrous activity comes from .. god bless america.

Look my beef is that I think your taking something that does have some merit and acting like its the most important thing that will ever happen. So important that YOU can break rules and any enforcement will be called some kind of oppression. I don't really have a problem with your protesting. The fact that you guys screwed up and instead of taking responsibility you turn it into some radical BS story is what bothers me. In my opinion its your responsibility to admit you made a mistake so others will take heed and not make the same mistake. I'm sorry but I think this s going to get people fired up for the wrong reasons. I already see it and if you can't then i don't think I'm the ignorant one.

im concerned that there not reporting the facts about how the protestors were by definition more like a mob then protestors, so more people wont make the same dumb mistake and get hurt and you just want to promote that it was unprovoked which is not entirely true, both sides made major mistakes in judgment. The more people realize this the better chance it can be avoided next time,. But your approach of hiding this info will only bring more anger and violence. shame on you.

Sorry folks you still have to follow the rules of protesting(no permit no protest). It amazes me you guys are mad at bunch of people who broke the rules for their own needs. And then you go and do the exact same thing but somehow its OK when you do it. If that's the case then you have already lost.

Oakland protestors if I were you i would make a good attempt to keep people out who have tendency to throw things at cops. I would also suggest a permit cause if yo don't have one your breaking the law.The law is the law no matter how good your cause is. It's your responsibility to be responsible. To claim ignorance well would be well ignorant.

Expect more and more violence from local law enforcement as the costs to assign special police units to monitor protestors skyrocket. Our presence is costing cities an arm and a leg. They will strike out with "furious anger".

the Oakland protestors made some very dumb mistakes in following protocol technically(oh and throwing rocks and beer bottle at cops in riot gear, hmm i would try to leave those guys at home next time), by law they were protesting illegally which means lets go over this again "your breaking the law, and the law has means to punish you" so sorry you don't get to run around like a little kid cause you have a good cause ( i admit i dont really get it 100% but im trying) you stiil have to act like a law biding citizen and follow the rules Many before you had to follow them and hopefully many more after you will do a better job. If your going to take on the responsibility of heading a revolution. Make sure you understand how it works, and when you f it up don't blame others for your ignorance. Is this how we got here in the first place. By making dumb decisions and then not taking responsibility for it. So if Oakland protesters want to act like they did nothing wrong and that it was 100% not their fault. Then we might as well all give up and go home cause they obviously don't have what it really takes to bring down a super power if they cant even figure out how a protest works.

Ok so if the next time the new iPhone comes out and there are not thousands of college kids lined up to buy them, then maybe ill start worrying about the economy. GO HOME....... go occupy your families lives.

Sorry!!I don't see this a sign of a revolution. I see it as a sign of a bunch of children that don't want to face the music, that the party's over and it's time to grow up. We rocked in the 90's and now we mad cause we did not save our money cause we spent it on drugs- boo hoo!

Stop protesting about problems and blaming the highest people you can. The things that are being protested, if the protest ever comes up with actual things to protest against, effect about the top 10%, not the top 1%. So get an actual plan and stop blaming others for individuals problems or problems that do effect everyone.

This is going on my Web Site.. Investors4Justice.net.. and all the Financial Stock Message boards that i am known to. Also, sent to other Web Site editors around the world in Finance and those fighting the good fight to bring the System Back to the Control of the people!
.... This needs to be Brought to the attention of All in Authority who Can Stop this 'Kent State' like demoralizing Police Action!.. The White House needs to Step Up!
Marlow

Is it any wonder that our election process and Halloween occur within roughly the same week? Both are symbols of death! Those who are now ghosts who have already had their misery with the monetary world--the other a group of zombies known as congresspeople and Senators who serve a much scarier entity (Corporations & banks) Boo!

How true, How true My Mom and Dad always taught me to be very careful who I took candy from.

I've got lobbyists in Congress myself (sorry to say). There is that AARP outfit and on and on.

I even have lobbyists in the detergent isle at WalMart. You been to the laundry detergent isle lately. Use this, use that, here's a few cents off this $9.95 item. This will do 48 loads. This will get this for you and this will get that for you. If I give you a free sponge, will you buy me.
Same thing in Congress. Just PHD. We are just stronger in the detergent isle than when sitting in a position of power over others - how sad indeed.

Funny you should mention Wal Mart. I just bought this DVD through Amazon called Wal Mart the high price of low cost. They are a company that has done as much damage as any big corporation in the U.S. Talk about a company that doesnt care about hurting people. Guess maybe Im a hypocrite because they were my first job out of High School some 20 years ago when they just started to boom--Sam Walton had just died and you could smell all the sharks coming! In this DVD I watched it tells in one story about after Sam Walton died his widow and 4 children received 18+ billion dollars each, but that said Wal Mart has a program where employees contribute to a fund to help out other employees hurting across the country and had raise 5+ million dollars (and these people are making squat themselves), the Walton family with close to 100 billion dollars total had given $6,000. Not to mention the local business' they have destroyed. Guess as long as people get that free sponge or extra item for nothing we don't think about the bigger picture when we do such things.

Trends seems to suggest an increasing pressure to squelch protests using violent and authoritarian methods. I worry that The Occupy Movement is unsustainable unless it forms into a cohesive political organization. Have there been any discussions on this matter in The General Assembly?

I don't condone violence but look to Libya and the middle east for inspiration, to win the battle you have to capture the kings, as well protected as they are they are not infallible, your struggle is not getting out of the USA loud enough ....It's not big news, you have got to follow that money trail...Stick to the one agenda, cut off the head of the snake the fed must end and the treasonous heads brought to justice....Stay and just shout slogans is like farting in to the wind....Go on the march, single file crossing every pedestrian crossing in New York, bring the city to a standstill, no police line can stretch as far as a people line..Make global headlines...Any and every tactic to get noticed....Bon Chance.

ronjj, you missed my point my friend, a city has to move to work, in America you are restricted to the sidewalk, I was saying to use this restriction to your advantage....Occupy it on the move crossing every pedestrian crossing single file...If the traffic cannot move the city will choke...Peacefully you will achieve the news bytes you need, you will also pick up many new followers on the way....When I mentioned Libya, I was referring to the people who hunted done and brought Gadafhi to justice (nasty as it was) but they understood without him then they would never be free....By recognising the true enemy you can defeat it...Peaceful protest is fantastic and hopefully a Gandhi will come out of it to lead the movement, with too many voices speaking over each other the fundamental message is confusing....You must start somewhere and from there you can move on....Personally I would start with the Federal Reserve, demand an audit, when the world actually sees how it has been conned you then have ammunition not speculation to use against your core enemy

Collateral damage.....If the fraud of the 21st Century money supply is not stopped soon the world will choke and starve.....If the city goes hungry for a couple of days the people of the city will choose sides....The 99% being the strongest they will gain mass support....Food is being donated from all over the world to the protestors I'm sure no one will die of starvation only money will be lost...

in Arab Spring, people answered with violence when cops used violence, will it be the same in the West? Of course not, because people have much better life and they are not ready to put ass int he fire. You can't compare poor people in north Africa with rich activists from West Europe/USA. Rich activists don't want to use violence, and surely many of them are paid by FBI to control protest. pacifism is good for government, government beat and people stay peaceful. vow! message for protesters: decide together, don't let organizers to become leaders and be aware from people who try to control what kind of protest it will be. American gov is not gov of the people, as some organizers say, American gov shot people in the past when they demanded better salary, they sent soldiers to shoot people if Pinkerton didn't succeed to to dirty job. american gov was never gov of the people.

This is a disgrace. Wealthy communities hosting their cute little ragtag Occupiers are one thing, what happened in Oakland resembled sci-fi and portends an ominous future for OWS should we become a force to be reckoned with. Don't take this lightly because it will come to your community if we begin to have our way. They will pull the plug shall we begin to appear powerful. Discuss contingency plans and prepare for the worst. The "privileged and powerful people" have not yet been prompted to hysteria. They will be, if we are able to harness our energy, and every city will resemble the footage I've viewed coming out of Oakland.

The venom from your mouth exceeds that of any evil I see coming out of the 1%. I can't even imagine that you have anything but contempt for the entire world and the 7B people in it.

The priviledged and powerful people are not likely to be prompted to hysteria as much as to outrage and sorrow that you even exist. How sad for you and in a big way, for all of us too
I really can't believe that you exist for this sole purpose, but a lot of people that were here before you had the same ideas Some looser named Hitler comes to mind..

The greedy have had free reign to do whatever they wanted. We now live in the world of their creation: human caused global climate disruption, mass extinctions not seen in millions of years, massive overpopulation (more consumers for their products), natural beauty destroyed to supply resources to
build speculative housing projects, and opulent office buildings for their corporate crimes against humanity and the earth. Do we want to allow this world vision to continue to its ultimate conclusion? No way!

I am really fed up with all of this too. If those capitalists don't quit pushing more and more power (electricity) into my house, I am going to explode. All they are doing is causing global climate disruption at my expense. STOP this nonsense.
And why did some capitalist idiot have to go and build that house I live in. They were just speculating and destroying our resources hoping and gambling that I would want a house for my family. I really feel used.

Gaddafi has not led his country into big debt. This "dictator" had not
impoverish his people. In fact, he had enriched many of them. Our banksters,
with the support of our government, have caused our country to become the
biggest debtor the world has ever known. They have impoverished so many of us
now; and many more yet to be born. They are still enjoying life as if nothing
had happened. What happened to the leaders of Tunisia, Egypt and Libya should
rightly happen to those banksters and those in government who suport them.
The Libyans, Egyptians and Tunisians have shown us the way to bring about
real change.

What have we achieved so far? Let's face it. We have not occupied Wall Street,
nor any street for that matter. We have not even been able to walk on a street,
only its sidewalk! Peaceful protest can only take us this far. Now the police
are getting violent. We are taking casualties. We are right, the whole world is
watching. It is watching and wondering when, if ever, we will fight back. This
will decide if it will give full support to our cause. What are we waiting
for? Let's roll!

And you don't think that Gaddafi's 61B$ should have been more evenly spread around, shared, redistributed. 42 years in office, only about 1.5 billion a year in salary socked away in some banks (wonder what the real annual salary amounted to), not too bad for a kid from that little town down south part of Libya was it.

ronj
With due respect I suggest you do a little research on Libyia and Gaddaffi.

The oil and banking cartel have soaked America in propaganda about Giddaffi.
Read some of the African based comment and you may learn more of the truth.
Through Gaddafi's reform over many years the oil money has been used to provide free housing for all, a standard of living above that which much of the USA enjoy, free education right through to tiertiary with a 97% literacy over the whole population , free health, pensions for all, and a long stuggle to bring together the tribal factions that existed as a result of colonial occupation and exploitation in the past. And heaps more. He stopped oil sales to the US for peanuts and sold to Russia and China who paid more.
He stopped paying ransom to the US/European satellite service and funded Africas own with China's help. Libya has a state bank not open to takeover by the US. European 1% crooks. He was also organising a Bank of Africa among the other nations to stop the IMF strangle hold on development for IMF profit and control. I could go on but it is all available from authorative sources on the net,
Just question the propaganda fed through the 1% bankers media. They tell monstous lies to get you to help them with their looting around the world, filling their pockets with no benefit for you.
If you want an insight to Gaddaffi and Libyain intention then try reading "The Green Book" and you will see one of the more democratic systems of peoples input to government. That is Libyia's equivalent to the constitution.

Libyia is a country of 14 people groups (based on origin, culture, tribal association, and if you will allow, from the descendents of the sons of Noah, etc) Gaddaffi and his family group were the only true African group in Libyia (he told you this through his dress) thus his support from and for the " African" people as evidenced by your comments. This is not information from the propaganda floating around you have outlined it pretty well.
And there is that reference to the 1% again, only this time they are European - why always 1% how about 10% or 20% or something different to distinguish the bad guys.
And who exactly wrote "The Green Book" the only person I ever saw with this bible in hand was Gaddaffi himself. Did the other 13 people groups have a strong voice in composition of this document??
Then there is this little matter. I really think that the better of two evils might have been Gaddaffi. He did a lot to help his country according to the information you provide, but at the same time he seems to have helped himself and this family even more. Could this be the reason for his demise??
I don't have to do any more research, because I think I understand how the whole thing was set up (not a setup). I just can't understand why a nation decided to kill such a great man who did such great things for all of them.

Perhaps power yields corruption in many ways but my research on Libya is not without some reservations.

The authoring of the Green Book may become a historical research item but I think it unlikely that it was penned alone. I also doubt whether any wider ethnic or tribal input was solicited. It was a manifesto, perhaps of intention , and parts of it read well. Most political manifestos fail to prescribe a working reality that remains without intense criticism which may well be justified.

eg the constitution

All the same the tirade of propaganda against Libya and Gaddafi from the Western press is driven by other that what was happening in Libya. We don't have to accept blatant lying for political gain.

The web of intrigue is hard to clarify as Libya moves through the 40+ years since Gaddafi's coupe of the openly corrupt King .

Colonial remnants relationships remained and alliances between outsiders and various tribal based leaders become clearly towards the interests of the factions and hardly ever for the good or future of Libya.

Gaddaffi appears to have moved against such where the detriment of Libya's interests were stated as reason for his actions. His regulation of ownership and restructuring of the affairs of state, employment, control of wealth, changing of personal freedoms and emancipation of women all earned support and opposition.

The younger better educated generation were probably his biggest supporters. Deep divisions remained it appears possibly based on traditional tribal and later rich families through commerce based wealth.

The structure and distribution of wealth in Libya changed over time.

CIA and other agencies did deals with Gadaffi and secrecy of course means that such seldom become public. But one can often see results of changes that reveal outcomes which don't need much explanation.

The potential for unrest being created with the new wealth potentially available, with better infrastructure, oil, the giant aquifer and pipelines; possibly motivated greater foreign subterfuge towards systematic opposition and downfall of the regime.

The "popular" revolution is likely to have been a mix of internal and definitely external forces.

We know that the UN and NATO excuse for intervention was abosolute no brainer propaganda and rubbish; which the foreign invaders ceased to justify after they started the recent bombing.

The press releases to our media were full of contradictions and obvious lies. African sources showed mercenary forces being full of white faces yet news here showed mainly "arab" faces.

My conclusion was that one had to read both "sides" to see what was likely to make sense.

Certainly the official Western propaganda is an arogant proliferation of lies. Who is aiming to profit?

That will become apparent in time as the war is over according to the news but the battle for revealing truth will continue. Big Oil, Bankers, and foreign transnationals will be there I have no doubt and Libya's sovereignty will diminish as will their peoples rights to welfare , education, health services, pensions. public infrastructure and wealth from oil.

An Iraq War Veteran is currently in critical condition with a fractured skull and brain swelling after being shot in the face with "non-lethal rounds" during the Oakland Police Department's assault on Occupy Oakland yesterday. All because after surviving 2 tours in Iraq, he was engaging in the right to protest here at home.

We need our military HERE at home!!!
Protect us from our own government!
This is REAL.

It's about time! Way to go Oakland PD! A protest with paid protesters is nothing more then political grandstanding. Long Live Captialism! Death to the socialist! Oakland Down, Atlanta Cleared, NY you are next!

My favorite chants from the tear gas festivities last night: "Rise up with the people of the world! Rise up, rise up, rise up!" And "The role of the ploice: to serve and protect.. NOT US, but the 1 percent! Tonight no drug store downtown Oakland will sell us bandanas.

Not being much for organized religion myself, I do feel what Christ taught especially about money was very true!
If anyone wants to pass this on to Fox News as a reminder to them about the true meaning of money please be my guest--as they seem to use Christ a lot, but don't really seem to act to his teachings.

Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint. Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle. (NIV, Proverbs 23:4-5)

What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? (NIV, Matthew 16:26)

People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. (NIV, 1 Timothy 6:9-11)

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. (NIV, Matthew 6:24-25, 31-33)

A good post. Thank you for bringing things into perspective for us. You don't have to be a part of any organized religion to know the Truth.

Just one more teaching from God:

Do not covet what your neighbor has - not his goat, not his ass, and not his stuff and believe it or not - your neighbor is your fellow man whether he be the poorest or the richest in this nation - he is still your neighbor. You covet what he/she has and it is wrong in the sight of God.

Again, you're misinterpreting the movement. Nobody is coveting the wealth of the 1%. The movement is about the fact that the government (and media) is run by them. All actions done are in their best interest, not in the interest of the entire country. We're not asking for handouts; we're asking for fairness.

Don't buy that paper or magazine, don't watch that TV channel. I think the consumer is more powerful that any media outlet.

But as long as we choose to be consumed instead of the consumer we are going to loose. You "covet" when your attention, your purpose, your time, your very being is directed to something other than your own responsibilities and this then becomes coveting whether we see it that way or not.
Why is most of the content of these posts directed to the 1% instead of calls for us to exercise our responsibilities. If you don't think that these responsibilities are powerful, ask yourself - "where did the New Coke go"
And aren't all these posts about the same thing?? They are being posted in "our" best interest, not in the best interest of "the entire country". Perhaps the "best interest of the entire country" is for me to get my act together as one solid block in the foundation that holds this country together.

Your right indeed! Each person has to take responsibility for their own actions. Multimillions were being given these home loans, personal loans or whatever without anyone asking how they could repay it. The banks had created a system where they were going to win regardless which has brought us here, but your right if each person had said wait a minute I cant afford this why are they giving me this loan? We would'nt be here either. Greed effects everyone, but that said to I dont think these bankers should walk away with hundreds of millions of dollars while people lose their homes. If both parties knew they were in it for the wrong then no one should walk away with anything it should just be a wash and the laws should change with a fresh start for each party. But the fact that one side walks away with more than any 1000 people combined would ever need by acting illegally and immorally when justice says that people should be going to jail--I dont feel thats right either

Thanks Ronj!
You as well!
We can have such a great society if everyone stops trying to screw everybody else over to get ahead. If it's a shared society and there are no haves and have nots--is'nt that what every true prophet from history has tried to convey in their messages--regardless of the flag or culture they supposedly represent? Seems to me that anyone who has taught truth that their message(s) are'nt to be limited to their ethnicity, it's meant to be global in it's nature, as truth has no barriers due to the riduculousness man has used it for--mainly for the uses of one's own power rather than a shared existence in truth--the main message being as your message conveyed--don't worship stuff and want or desire more than is needed by ones own person. They have lead us to this point unfortunately. Here's to mankinds reawakening!

Yeah, BUT, there will always be the "rich", the "powerful", "the thief", the "poor"
I think it is more about what teachings you hold and how you react to these, that determines the person you really are.
My teaching says that you do not envy the rich - it doesn't say destroy them or try to take away what they have then you become a thief.
It teaches me to honor my fellow man. Not to tear them down.
It teaches me not to covet what someone else has or I become just like them. You covet the rich man who covets their money. What is the difference.
I believe that all men are created equal, but where does the teaching that all money is created equal show up. I was only taught what my relationship and attitude towards money should be and how they wrong attitude could affect me.
And that is what is wrong, "for the uses of one's own power" Riches can be a blessing to the holder only if he/she can make it a blessing to others.
Greed is greed regarding its origin or who it infiltrates. Can't the poorest among us be just as greedy the the richest? It isn't so much about having as it is about what we do with what we have. You may be familiar with the poor woman who gave a "penny" , all she had. She did give a lot more than the rich man gave much but by no means all.

Thats where I feel that if those who gained so much are made to just repay it and each person is starting over from square one, we wouldnt need uprisings. I think thats why people are so upset. If those who walked away with so much would just repent by giving it back and say Im sorry I was wrong I want to make amends--we would see people start to heal and a kinder world start to take shape. But not being naive either, know that thats probably never going to happen. If its in a person DNA to be all about money and gain--unless they have a total new spiritual rebirth as a group then the masses will keep getting angrier and angrier--and knowing I should be above that myself--I honestly cant say I blame them--especially when it comes to just seeking simple justice for the crimes that have been commited.

I thought we could get along. But now I am not so sure. Let's see, the ill gotten gain has all been distributed back to the masses. We all got the same amount, we are in square one again. We now decide how to use our 10cents (for example only). Let me count mine again 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 .......... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 HEY. What sorry
ass divided this up/
Damn, here we go again.
(Please excuse the language, I needed to emphasizeJ).

Self indulgent happiness seeking entrepreneur
Dominating the airwaves,
The air, the water and even conception.
In love with power for the sake of power,
N love with money for the sake of money
Seeking status to the exclusion of all sense

is over.

It is over:

The era of false identities
Will not starve to death
In a peaceful or decent way
Now wondering why things are not
Going the way they predict in column width erudition
And sound byte precision.

The era of that started with
Overdue consummation is over
Let go, you boomers and
You children of boomers,
You undeserving inheritors of a legacy squandered.

You facilitators of the dirty deal,
You extravagant clucks
For whom watching people wither to death
Are sports called politics and business,
Otherwise called dog fighting,
Its implications unspoken, although, you are the dog.

Some of you may get it someday,
It may penetrate the over informed, self serving
Mass of smug misinformation that swirls in an
Aura of confused logic around you

And that you call
Consciousness

You pretend education is an apprenticeship
In the production and installation of plastic dolls.
It is at its core expensive vocational training
For the factories producing profit squashed imagination
Stamping out look alike debtors

You mayors babble like talking heads
To earn the right to drool in platinum splendor.
Believing that you won a competition
With the tools of soft violence.
Your bumper sticker brains
That confuses the polluted waters of babylon
With the indeterminacy of enlightenment.

We fall together, toppling in slow motion
You embracing the death of turd blossoms,
I, seeing life geminating in a blue riot
That surrounds us.

To my brave brothers and sisters. Is it any wonder that Congress has not brought any kind of legislation to the forefront in order to prosecute these criminal bastards? Mybe not considering the elected officials we are asked to vote for are bought and paid well before they serve in office. It does'nt matter who we vote for, but as we are seeing, the power does truly belong to the people, not just those who buy the system with their wealth. And since they don't think we are not smart enough to organize a thought between all of us, why not show them. My plea to those I consider now as the only true heart and justice I know, in those fighting this evil, why don't we begin in the groups gathered throughout all the protest sites in the U.S., and begin our own nomination process with the best people each group in each city thinks will do the best job possible in serving We the People! I think between all the cities we can easily come up with 2 or 3 extremely qualified individuals to begin reserving the peoples desires versus corporate Americas for the first time in hundreds of years. With the media understanding the power all of us have with this slimeball system we have currently, why not use all that attention to our advantage by getting truly elected officials into office and stop this revolving door that is owned by families and corporations to ensure their dominance over us. Imagine it--a United States based on ethics rather than corruption!

Great idea. You know, we may be asked to vote for certain individuals, but we are NOT forced to do so.

Get your slate of candidates together, I for one, want to hear from them and have the honor of deciding for myself who to vote for. TOO
often our choice is between the better of two evils. Give us more to choose from.

Hey Ronj,
Yeah, I'm sure between you and I, as well as everyone else who is desperate for a new way of doing things, can come up with far better choices than we have thrown at us and being told here's your two choices that the systems picked for you. Granted neither is going to serve our side regardless so screw you and your democracy because it doesnt exist is what they tell us. We have been blinded for so long by a system that uses us as guinea pigs that it's now our time!! Get your list of good folks along with your friends Ronj--I just went to the restroom and already found something far better in the toilet than we have ever had to choose from!--Later

I think it is a sad day when in a country of 300M ++ people we end up with choices like we do.

But didn't we bring some of this on ourselves. Aren't we a country that in one way or another doesn't want big government or big business either one as represented by and as presented by our leaders, our CEO's etc. today.
Somewhere, I hear a very definite cry from deep within our people for change whether that be movement towards the "NEW" or a return to the "OLD" we just all want a better way, a way that says we are all in this together. We can sort though it, we can work together and we can make it better for all even the 1%. Why does a CEO deserve a headache and ulsers any more than the rest of us.
This isn't done by yelling and screaming in a few parks or holding a cardboard sign for people to read that could care less. Tooting a horn as you drive by isn't saying much. We do the same at a bunch of cattle that got out of a farmer's field through a hole in the fence or maybe that is what we really mean. TOOT TOOT
We won't be seen as trying to address our grievances by and through these sad examples. We will only be seen as bitching about something. So you get killed in a park that doesn't even belong to you. What's the point. They aren't going to give you a permit to be buried there. One way or the other, you are outta there.
So where is the common sense that once made this country so great, that made you leaders command respect - not demand it. That made our CEO's great corporate leaders with a great return to their communities and to their country. WHERE???

Becoming speechless over all that is happening. A choke in my throat...about how bad the police action was for our democracy.
I did want to say, that the country is thinking about things. "Scott Olson"'s name is trending on Twitter in NY.
My thoughts are with Scott Olson and his doctors.

While you are marching consider this: the police are taking away the media limelight from Occupy... take it back - waaaay back - gather the few beginners together [ the guys that started this thing ] and agree all of the "Occupy" cities should send representatives from each city [ first wave ] to Occupy DC TOMORROW!!! - Joining all of the Occupy cities together in DC now with the same style banners, locations, etc of the two major political conventions... The Occupy Convention!! This should start the drama in DC - You do not have to give up any ground in the cities where you are demonstrating - You must show solidarity of these cities since the police are now suppressing the people into violent sound bites [ hell the cops go to classes & have college degrees on this type of demonstration busting ] I write plays believe me this Occupy Play needs a "through line now" peace AtomicZ...

AtomicZ
You are the only one on here that read the history of the beginnings of our great country aren't you. It was not all about American against American. It wasn't me against you. It was for a belief that there was a better way, a way based on rights AND responsibilities - that way involved representatives, men who were willing to give up their time, riches, and all (even their livesj) to be heard in a peaceful manner

You may loathe the Tea Party Movement - but look where they are now. Quietly, they moved into positions in Congress. How many representative does this , so called movement, have even thinking about such a loafty goal. They didn't have to bully their way, they didn't degrade to name calling, they didn't have their war plans (let's roll, let's dig in, let's fight to the end). Lofty talk, no movement at all.

Get in there, get involved, present your ideas then you will find out if you have any support. The real fight is being fought in Congress, not in some mayor's office in Oakland or even in some class action lawsuit in Sacramento. Most of these posts and the ones holding the drums and megaphones evidence the insight and wisdom of a, a, a, never mind.

Amazing how the try to quell the protest movements before they get much bigger. Once the crowds get over 1000 in one particular city like it happened in Seattle, New York, Chicago, Atlanta and now Oakland, it makes the 1% nervous so they rely on the central command to organize and attack the protesters camps b4 it gets out of control. I would not be surprised if Homeland Security was involved in this. Welcome to the Police State of the United States of America. I am totally disgusted...

Flashbangs are explosives.The police threw explosives at people! What insanity is this! OH!

1492
Thou two-faced year, Mother of Change and Fate,
Didst weep when Spain cast forth with flaming sword,
The children of the prophets of the Lord,
Prince, priest, and people, spurned by zealot hate.
Hounded from sea to sea, from state to state,
The West refused them, and the East abhorred.
No anchorage the known world could afford,
Close-locked was every port, barred every gate.
Then smiling, thou unveil'dst, O two-faced year,
A virgin world where doors of sunset part,
Saying, "Ho, all who weary, enter here!
There falls each ancient barrier that the art
Of race or creed or rank devised, to rear
Grim bulwarked hatred between heart and heart!"

Hey, more power to the protest, but please, don't put me in with the nameless 99% and then claim to speak for me. Actually, you should be in fear of me. I may statistically be in the 99% group you have identified, but I see you in the bottom 1% and you are my target as the threat you represent to the other 98% plus 1%. There is no doubt that you would tear this country and everyone in to shreds to get your way. You lie about representing me, you form your chosen groups, you classify people, you resist authority. Somehow, I know the end of your little game - Get rid of the 1%, pick another 1% and get rid of them too (There will always be a 1% you know or maybe you don't). But there will be until finally you are it, the greatest 1% of all. You have everything, control everything, are everything. Oh but look, Junior over there has a nicer car than me - get him, he is nothing but trouble. And where did Sue get her new dress. Who does she think she is ruining our perfect little world. Using her influence to benefit herself. Take her out.

I don't know where I rank in you catagories of 1% but I can see you coming at me. AND THAT IS WHAT SCARES ME MOST.

You will be scared, no matter what. It is how you behave despite being scared. Sounds like you have talked yourself into behaving poorly. Or are you establishing your defense argument beforehand?
Try to stay in present time and you really have nothing to fear.

NICH - hope you had a good nights rest. No, Nich, I am scared. Read my reply to your pal, Penchino above. I am not behaving poorly at all - I continue to pay my fair share and compared to 46% of my fellow citizens, a lot more than my fair share. I work the first three months of every year to make enough to pay my fair share.
What is the point of me spending 1/4 of my life working under the slavery of taxes when a significant amount of that tax goes to support someone who does not work. Tell me WHY this is fair.

I am sorry for your pain. I have been where you are. I have lost whatever I had. I was in the streets in the 70's when we were 1/2 of 1%. If you want to do something, the first place to start is to tell yourself and everyone else that you are not scared. If tou are scared, you are no good to me or anyone else.
It is one thing to work hard, that is human. It is another thing entirely to believe that money is yours. That's what wall Street believes. You did not work for the government, you worked for yourself.
What makes the numbers reveal unfairness is the aggregate numbers and the trend, not you individual numbers. When you think that way, you will always be scared.
Sometimes I don't sleep so well, like when my friends tell me that they are scared. Most of the time, I sleep fine.
I've lost my health, my job, my independence but not myself.

Calm down, take a deep breathe, hold it, and release. Repeat. Now, Whatchu talkin bout Willis? Who is coming at you? What exactly scares you most? No one cares about you're "rank", but I think the inclusiveness of this movement is meant to showcase fairness and sharing. Kind of like when you're a kid. Remember? The message was always share and be united as a group or a lass etc etc etc...strange we are taught these things because it seems to run counter to the reality of our system of, I got mine, ef them.

lol what a aimless ramble!!! Its not about Bob having a nicer car, that aint the 1%. This is about fundamental change. This is about sharing atleast SOME of the wealth. The super rich dont pay taxes, they get rich of the taxes!! Thats stealing, its not driving a nice car its taking the public's health care, education and then profiting from it. You are the 'product' of all this scare mongering, and 'these thugs need to work' mentality. They are smarted, they have a bigger better picture. And YOU, you are just confused with what is happening. That is why you are scared! xo

Come on now Penchino get real. SOME of the wealth is already being shared, you just want more tell it like it is and stop this stupidity. This is all about you thinking that the SOME being shared now is not enough for you. You want more and more and will continue your actions until you get IT. If SOME is not enough what do you think would be enough. Why do you think this nation is $16T in debt - it isn't all war expenses you know. It has to do with all the entitlement monies being dished out weekly.

Lets cut right to the real problem here. You handouts are ending because our Government is reaching a point where the citizens of this country are not going to borrow their future and their land into unsustainable debt to finance your silly desires. You really can't stop this movement to cut back at the Federal so you have to go after the next big money supply that you can identify (the 1% of the richest)
You have sucked the government dry, and you are now going after another source. You are damn right I am scared.

I hope Anonymous gets the names of the officers most responsible for this attack. I find it disgusting that these officers shield themselves behind their power. Someone needs to strip them of their rank release their information and get them to realize they are human and apply to the same moral code as the rest of us follow.

Now let me ask you a question. Freedom for who to assemble? How come the Coptic Christians are being killed in Egypt when they were part of the original protests. They are of the same people group as the rest of the Egyptians. They are not outsiders. Is it because those who forced the protests now hold the power to decide who lives and dies as a result of their victory. Before you pronounce these great victories, check out Hitler's approach to the same situation.

Keep up the struggle ! Every time these greedy bankers find another way of screwing families more little children are abused both physically mentally and sexually. More women get beaten up. Mental illness reaches epidemic proportions. Check the figures in america and post on you site. IN our town ( Townsville Aust) during recession we had to have the 80's domestic violence and sexual abuse increased 300 %. What Wall street does is breed another generation of sick freaks that abuse women and children. Dont back down ! INvestigate the consequences of the actions of Wall street and force them to change God go Wilth you in your struggle. Trevor Townsville
Australia

The idea of the banks recovering the loss thru selling the property is, at this time, ludicrous

Idea: Banks should be required to ' Suspend' payments and interest accumulation if a person loses their job during an 'economic downturn' until that person finds a comparable paying job or until the national unemployment rate is less than 5%.

Tonight...Please go in peaceful movement...
Go quietly and with respect for those who have been hurt.
Be quiet in your walk, in your mourning for the past, in quiet hope for the future.
Walk peacefully among the wolves, and fear not!
In solidarity... from MN.

The world we live in can be a scary place. Every day it seems that analysts warn of impending disasters – whether in the form of crumbling economies or food shortages, global climate change, weapons of mass destruction and so much more. Most of us have enough to worry about just taking care of our own families, let alone trying to do something to benefit others, and for those of us who try to make the world a better place – none of us know where to start. Even our leaders seem incapable of fixing the problems facing our world today.
As times become harder and harder for the average person to make ends meet and provide for our loved ones, we've taken to the streets in protest. Whether its the Arab Spring, the riots in England or now the Occupy Wall Street movement, there is no denying our lack of patience with the world today. We are fed up and ticked off and we're showing the world we are not going to take it anymore. But what are we saying to the 1%, really? Are we promoting civil responsibility, or just spreading our anger? Are we stomping out the flame, or just adding another log to the fire? Are we creating solutions, or are we just another part of of the problem? This is not how we fix our world – through hate.
Changing the world is not difficult, but it takes all of us. If we want to fix the problem, it is up to us to become the solution. If we want to fix the world, all we need to do is inspire people to care about each other once again, especially the 1%. How do we do this, you ask? Easy. Instead of a picket sign, occupy Wall Street with a grill and some tailgate supplies. Invite all the homeless to come down and join us for burgers and ribs like it was a Sunday afternoon and we're ready for some football. While you're at it, bring with you some old clothes you don't wear anymore – and some blankets. Help those who are less fortunate than us to survive yet another cold and bitter winter, and invite the executives in their corner offices to come join us as well.
If we want to fix the world, all it takes is a little Love. All we gotta do is show the 1% that we take responsibility for each other – and we won't have to ask them to do the same for us – because we will inspire them to follow our lead. That's how we change the world, but I cannot do it alone, nor can you. It takes all of us. So spread the word, start marinatin' those ribs and get ready to start cloggin' up some arteries like only a good 'ol fashion American barbeque can, because we – the 99% – we are the world, therefore we are the solution. Peace be upon you all, and plus one for the heroes!

GOOD - you're on the right track. But are you going in the right direction?
Of course you don't know where to start because the needs overwhelm our limited resources. Even the government and the rich combined don't have the resources to meet the evergrowing needs, demands and so called entitlements of our citizens here in America.
The cook-out is a great idea today. But who coordinates tomorrow, who raises and butchers the ribs, buys the fuel, cleans up the mess and settles into this as their daily routine, year in and year out. IF this is our way out, at what point do we become like all those of the last few decades, we give up this routine, forget why we started in the first place and apply for a federal grant to hire someone else to continue our good work. I grew up in an era when you walked as far in either direction from home as you could and you DID NOT find anyone that wasn't working (be it farmer, laborer, merchant, mechanic, handicapped, etc etc). Everyone worked, produced and took responsibility for their own life. And we gave more than you can even imagine. A neighbor got sick: he, his family and his farm were taken care of (didn't have to wait for the feds to come by to slop the hogs), we didn't wait for the rich man (J Paul Getty or Andrew C or someone else to help us). Yes, surprise, there were some really really rich people back them too and even a few banks with marble walls, hobos came by and Mom cooked them a breakfast from the things we had, didn't send them to a State center of some kind for a free meal.
ONE QUESTION - What really changed in all of this?? We were a way down the financial list, but I still have the Federal Tax forms showing that Mom and Dad paid some taxes every year while fully supporting themselves and their family and a hobo now and then. Did this really become a problem as a result of the explosion of the wealth at the top or did It became a problem due to the explosion of the overwhelming needs and entitlements of the other end of the financial spectrum which is now breaking the back of what is left of the middle class in this country. Our taxes do not even support this group any more - we have borrowed a significant amount of the 16T$ debt we now have to do so. Now we are looking to the financially rich to share the wealth for another one day barbeque. Who do you expect to "fork it over" tomorrow? Yeah, I agree that we are the world, but unfortunately, I think we are all part of the problem more than part of the solution.
Have a nice day.

“When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard.”
— Dr. Martin Luther King

Tear gas, arrests, rubber bullets. I feel like we face a fork in the road: do we 'dig in and push back' or continue to just simply 'occupy'? I've got my 'pushing back' boots on, don't know about all of you.

Tear gas, arrests, rubber bullets. I feel like we face a fork in the road: do we 'dig in and push back' or continue to just simply 'occupy'? I've got my 'pushing back' boots on, don't know about all of you.

Yup. last night was the first attempt to retake Oscar Grant/Frank Ogawa Plaza. Lots of tear gas used with mild provocation at best. I have yet to hear a credible eyewitness account claim that the cops were endangered. I have yet to see a video that shows danger to the police.

More importantly however I was amazed by the media blackout of its live feeds that would have televised the brutality. Got that?

The media appeared to be working with the cops to control this message. I'd like some hard evidence proving this. Its just an observation I've seen mentioned,a nd I personally saw the live feeds get cut on an ABC affiliate before any police action was filmed. Just before actually. It was very odd. The footage on channel 2 that showed the event hours later (as in edited footage) was unusually choppy as well.

But anyway, this is just heresay from me and a dozen other sources. Hard evidence would be powerful in this case to show a coordinated media blackout of the event in order to help the police manage their PR.

It takes a certain kind of person who is willing to beat the crap out of his fellow man. Shame on these cops! They have lost their own humanity. Disgusting. The sleeping giant has finally awakened. Do these cops think they have enough manpower to contain this giant beast?

It is curious to hear Rose and Goodman discuss Dr. Martin Luther King. Suddenly these sanitized historical figures come to life in the midst of these demonstrations. They cease to be quaint ideas and become practical examples of righteous dissent. I never learned that Helen Keller was a socialist until I took a course in Working Class History in America. The truth about economics is not discussed as brazenly as the notion that "free markets" work for every one. Chris Hedges describes on Charlie Rose how insurance companies hold parents' children hostage as they battle to treat their children's disease, while insurance companies force people into bankruptcy. There is no rationale for this behavior, which is why it is not widely discussed. Even Charlie Rose feigns ignorance, asking "what do you mean taking their children hostage?" What is meant is that no one should be forced out of house and home in order to pay for health care and that in a just society this would be considered unconscionable.
"Give us everything you have and then, only then, will we treat your dying child..."
Will the demonstrations endure...you bet your life.

We have a similar movement going on in India , although now its momentum is reduced , it feels good that people around the world are standing up to injustice and hope to continue doing so. Much love and support from India !

Oakland needs to back off. Americans are entitled to speak out and petition for redress of grievances.

*Today America is at a crossroads. It is time to change course. There needs to be a serious forum for our outrage. There needs to be a way for vast numbers of Americans to get the attention of the leaders who profess to "represent" us!

America does not need another Kent State situation before we make changes.

Do we really want our National Guard posted and on stand bys to prevent civil unrest? Is it worth it to the GOP Tea Party millionaires at the tax cut trough, to increase costs in homeland security for all because of their contempt for the unemployed? Will it be worth to us all to leave unemployed extensions in the abyss?

2011-2012 A Deluge Of HOBOs!
Should You Learn The Language?
Today graffiti is prevalent on walls, residences, businesses and the infrastructure in America. A result of gangs slinging communication at each other while leaving the general public puzzled and bewildered. But this isn't the first time that indigenous groups have used code to converse with each other. In the 1930's millions of Hobos developed their own unique system of symbols which could be found on street curbs buildings and crossroads nationwide.

Here are the lyrics to Country Carl's Hobo Up:
Song is the National Anthem for the Homeless

Kick this town, find the tracks
Start over again and pass the hat
Jump a bus if you have the cash
Or use your truck until it's out of gas

Hobo Up
Take a good friend
Hobo Up
This is not the end
Hobo Up
break a leg
Hobo Up
Open roads are for the brave

New depression blues cross our land
Forget the bills forget the old plan
A new wave lies bgeyond the hills
Change your job build a wind mill

There is a bit of hyperbole here. It's not like the cops marched in laughing diabolically, smashing all who got in their way. The city was about as accommodating as could be, extending deadline after deadline long after the place had become (no exaggeration) a rat infested health hazard. The police fired tear gas canisters only after the crowd started throwing rocks. Unfortunately, an Iraqi vet got hit in the head with one and was severely injured. There is an abundance of video of what transpired from many angles, so if an officer deliberately took aim at the man's head he should of course be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But the spin here suggesting the cops just marched in firing tear gas on a peaceful protest is simply BS.

Thank you for some information that raises more questions for me. I suggest that you not start slinging the BS accusation.
Was using the Oakland police to solve a public health problem effective or simply efficient? Is there a bigger question of how civiv space is shared and who really pays when it is used and not used for protest?
Change is a messy project and people are getting their hands dirty. As you add context, is your context large enough. Haven't we been petting off or avoiding finally addressing the questions that would make Oakland a great place as opposed to a nice place(for people that like Oakland)
I don't see how it has come very far from the city in 1975 when gunmen took a judge out of the courthouse with a sawed off taped around his neck.
You may think that you are wading in the water but I hope you can swim.

I'm a nurse, not a billionaire. I think you guys have the right idea but 9 pm? I live here close to the park and the air horns, screaming and tambourines travel just as far as drums. I wake up at 4:30 to get ready to go in to the hospital. I'm tired of sleepless nights with loudness wafting in through my closed windows. During the day I say fight on but I don't think anyone that lives down here is who you're going after. This is some of the cheapest rent on the island! And it used to be blissfully quiet at night.

DAYTODAY - Thank you for standing up for your rights as a citizen of the Oakland Area.

It is always sad to see a movement of any type devolve into this type of time and money dark hole but looks like this one is headed there a lot faster than most.

I have worked with children all my life and these children need to be isolated from the rest of the kids. Anyone that demands their rights and a "bigger piece of the pie" over the rights of others, will be isolated one way or the other be it by the Police or their fellow citizens.

So very true and sad! Moreover, as a nurse, you will be one of the first to provide care to any OWS person who needs medical care. They are not good neighbors and a curfew to limit noise would show a great deal of maturity on their part. Sorry you and your neighbors have to suffer for a selfish few.

We have a similar movement going on in India , although now its momentum is reduced , it feels good that people around the world are standing up to injustice and hope to continue doing so. Much love and support from India !

You guys can try calling them, both of their message inboxes are full and I don't think they would do call backs to Australia; but hopefully there's a way someone can actually TALK to someone in the police.

There must be a bigger effort to get more peole to the streets and to the occupy sites. Most people need a clear path or idea in other words a goal, and theres nothng wrong with perhaps a few concret goals that people can look at. And this movement is about what we all know has happened and what many know is about to happen, What im trying to say is something concret to reach for.
I understand and dig the " we are the..." reality, but unless the mass of people come out of thier houses this movement will have more and more confrontations because and these confrontations will get violent. This was suppoesed to be a peaceful revolution. In a way reach down to the mass' and give them the declarations that are not political but human.
Theres not much time left to do this because as time goes on the forces of greed are continuing to devour all there is with the out come that will bring more violence.

Which is exactly what we will have as soon as we can get rid of WallStreet, The Banks and let's just say what we really mean, all institutions (Police, City Government, Banks, Wealthy men like Soros, National Guard, throw in the USMilitary too. Federal and State Govement, the corporations).

They never used violence against the tea party. The police are sworn to protect the rights of the oligarchs. Don't those idiots understand that their pensions, pay, benefits are all because of being in unions? That we are fighting for--for them!!

Without us, they will be hurt as well. The gas will just take longer to sink in.

they didnt use violence against the tea party becuse the tea party dose not threaten the system, the tea party has always been and off shoot that is just part of the system now.
Speaking of system. i hope everyone see's clearly the cuts that are coming in the budget. please dont let protests get violent

What alternative to cuts in the budget are there. We can't continue to mortgage our future and that of our children for today's follies. And that is exactly what we are doing. Where do we all think that 16T$ of borrowed money went to.

You put charges on your credit card for gas, bread and milk which are gone before you get the bill and you are headed in the same direction. Debt you can't pay and nothing to show for it.

You speak for everyone except me. I attended a few Tea Party meetings. Not even one police officer there. We didn't do anything to invite them, though they were "invited" and were more than welcome to attend. They are our fellow citizens too you know, neighbors too. I can't say the same for all Tea Party activities, but in my opinion, if the Police were called in to control their activites, then they were wrong, not the Police. Meeting the local Policeunder those circumstances was not part of our agenda.

History of drug abuse does not reduce the message. As long as no one was actively using there, that is a non issue. And I am sure you have many loved ones who survive today because of drug use, so shut it. Drugs are not just the illegal kind .

Come down here and I will show you my gun and holster any time. Probably be wearing it when I pick you up at the airport.

To me it is pretty commendable that Tea Party members could carry a gun to their meeting, nothing happened and no one was in any danger. Police didn't have to come to protect anyone, take any guns away, shoot off tear gas.

I personally dislike having a "ruling class", it doesn't bug me that they fly around in helicopters so they never have to mingle with us on a bus or subway. It doesn't bug me they live in closed and gated communities. No, this does not bug me because it's their lives to live as they please. What does bug me is that they try to enforce upon us their ideology, they think theirs is the only opinion that matters. That we who are too stupid to have clawed and scrapped our way up the financial ladder can't possibly know whats good even for ourselves. For far too long we have let people with catchy slogans and nice suits, sell us the same bullshit that keeps us mired in the status quo. This two party system where people are given only two choices to lead their country is crap. Since when is Democracy a two sided affair? Someone please post and explain to me how it makes sense that only two very old and dated parties could know the pulse of the people. Especially when the very same people who run for office are the children of those who have held office previously. Yes, I am talking about families like the Bushs'. We all know Prescott Bush was charged with treason and that he supported the Nazis, yet his son and grandson was elected to lead the free world... Does this make sense? America and much of the world has been hijacked by a very quiet and secretive "ruling class". Where things are settled and discussed internationally without our knowledge or approval... Is that Democracy? This movement means to me a call to action, political action; direct action, any kind of action its time to DO something about it. America was once a Beacon of Freedom and Hope for the poor and oppressed, now America is a Beacon of the Rich and Powerful.

I must clarify I do not say that Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. are Nazis, I merely imply that the man who had such an impact on both of their lives, that they followed in his every footsteps in politics and secret societies, must have also imparted some of his own beliefs into them as well. The Winners of War write history books and I do not want history to read that this movement died out as quickly as it started if our children are even allowed to learn history under the NWO. I believe that the rich and powerful have always looked for something that defines them from us. They look for some reason beyond luck and circumstance to explain their good fortune. I believe this to be true of most of us. We all look for what defines us and where it used to be our morals and ways of life defining us as people now your job and bank account define you as a person. We together have changed the face of this planet. It was not a singular person who rose from animal hood into the Age of Man, it was together in small communities at first that we rose up from being more than our environment dictated. I see a dark future ahead a future filled with much struggle and austerity. There is hope too in this dark world, hope that we give the world to the next generation better than when we inherited it from ours. I refuse to believe that petty in-fighting, and tribal; and racial hatreds, can hold us back. We are the 99%. We are the writers of our own destinies. We are NOT defined by what we can buy but by what we have to give as human beings. The 1% as people are not bad they live the only life they have ever known in most cases. Others have made themselves and were not given a single thing EVER and that is to be respected. Any and All who stand in the way of change so that corporations can continue to export war and destruction so they can compete for the rebuilding contract are the enemy. We were not given the option of sides in this war, we are the enemy of the rich because the constitution that says we are their equals. The rich are bored with being rich they want power over our lives. Do not let your children fight in wars and die so that rich and the wealthy can live the American dream. This movement is at a crossroads, we can squabble to each other over how long the drummers can drum, or WE can DO something about it. I say go out and confront people over this, I want to see videos of CEO's getting blasted for their ineptitude with OUR money. I want to see Rockefeller sweating his piggy little forehead off under a constant and never ending barrage of outrage at his under handed secretive shaping of society. I will not be lead into the abyss of perpetual debt the 1% would have us believe is the only and best way. America, you have stood up to the greatest powers at the time throughout history. Be it Great Britain under its inbred kings or The Great German war machine. Now it is time America to Stand up to your Greatest threat of all, one that comes from within America. The Oligarchs and elite have worked you to exhaustion and as you fall and die carrying the extra weight of the rich they profit off of you with their "Dead Peasant" insurance claims. Even in Death the ruling elite get the last laugh http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-this-all-means

Quite a bit of truth in there my friend, BUT I beg to differ on at least one point. It is not the Oligarchs and elite that are working me to exhaustion. It is not "carrying the extra weight of the rich" that breaks my back, it is carrying the extra weight of the citizens of this country, who do not even carry their own weight, that is breaking my back.

And regarding the protesters, I don't like the idea of a ruling class either, not the elite and Oligarchs BUT ALSO, not the people who I see representing this group on these pages. And they DO scare me more that any elite in this country.

Good point but I must say the people on the fringes of society are the first too know whats wrong in one because they are neither sheltered nor protected from the harshness of the ever darkening reality. You may be one of the millions with a "Dead Peasant" life insurance policy.

Kinda confused about the fringes of society thing too. The fringes that I have had contact with haven't a clue regarding whats wrong with anything - other than the cap on the wine bottle being on too tight.

When I say the fringes im talking about people with no insurance , people who have had their identities stolen and some huge corporation sue them anyways and lost everything. Dead Peasant life insurance is when a company like walmart for example take life insurance out on you while you work there and when you die they collect it . Corporations do this all the time as a way to recoup "Training Cost" please I urge you to do your own research a google search even would tell you all you need to know

I don't consider people in my area with no insurance as being on the fringe. They simply go to the emergency room of the local hospital that my taxes support and get the same service by the same staff that my wife got when they hauled her in there a few years ago. The only difference is that WE have to pay a deductible and have our insurance premiums current.

We HAD insurance but it sure wasn't free. We have now paid premiums for the same thing for over 46 years and we are still paying for that same insurance AND taxes too, so that those less fortunate can get the medical care they need and in M O S T circumstances, we think they deserve. I think that going to the emergency room weekly or even monthly, might be taking advantage of me (but some colds are worse than others).

You would have to name some names and provide a lot more specifics on the stolen identity claim. I know it can happen and that it can be very difficult to clear up, but ... I am a bit skeptical on any thing beyond that point. I have a Discover Card and it is really VERY VERY generous in its policy regarding stolen cards, false claims by some with my identity, etc. I really don't know how they stand the loss that they must face all the time.

As to the Dead Peasant life insurance. You threw me on that one by changing the official name for what it is. It is called KEY MAN insurance. These are the conditions:

The employer can take out a life insurance policy on an employee who is considered a key man in the company. Perhaps, for their education or training paid for by the company or other vested interest that the company holds in these persons.

THE KICKER IS - the employee must approve in writing on the application itself that this action is understood for reasons stated.
Didn't search google, too much misleading information there, this is directly from my insurance agent.

If I write any more, I may have to ask for your name - my insurance agent really is agressive.

I have to remember that Police Persons are workers just like I am. Police Persons are told what to do and they either do their job or they get fired, just like the rest of us. Instead of focusing on the Police on the Street Level, we need to focus on the thin-soled Police Leaders who set behind the desks on the Top Floor giving out the orders. In other words we need to Focus on the Sheriffs and Not the Deputies as Bob Marley would say. I need to remember that when I need help I will call a Policeman, NOT a banker, NOT a CEO, NOT a politician and not a gangsta.

Please note that the mayor of Oakland is under threat of recall - not for this incident, but she is politically vulnerable. Lean on the mayor's office until they come to the negotiating table.
http://tinyurl.com/3kbbk2c

i know iv'e posted this sometime ago, i'm all for this movement but the police are going to go too far. eventually some city within the US will crack and rebel against the police, and it might even create a chain reaction. the people will retaliate. it can't remain peaceful for long..

Which is why this was stupid. Why did the Rodney king riots happen? cause they were fed up with the shit. Same crap, different day. The cops havent learned a thing. You can not greet protests with violence. The people will rise up, and guess what, theres more of us then them.

The media mailbox is full, lol. Calling America is cheap from Skype, I've got some time to kill and some questions to be answered. Oakland bureaucrats & drones, prepare to be engaged by an Australian with full arsenal of the Queens English and fire in the belly.

This was contrived violence I have heard and read that the police started the violence. I must implore any and all who stand on the front lines and occupy from here on out Document whats happening bring camera's cellphones upload the video's through social media if the Arab spring has taught us anything about fighting an unjust and all powerful enemy is they need darkness and obfuscation EXPOSE them show the world

WHAT!?? I guess you better not mess with the system or you get the heavy hand of an iron fist. People have the RIGHT to assemble peacefully. Firing tear gas at a man's head? Because of what? Camping is illegal in California? This is B.S. and they know it.

I think the comparisons between this group of retards and our country's original patriots is laughable. I haven't seen one of these zombies articulate a cogent theme yet. And just to preempt any dumb replies, YES you have a right to protest. I haven't seen an educated person say otherwise, it would just be nice to hear a point. If you want America behind you, develop a unified message- and it better be something more complex than wealth redistribution.

You fuckers were infringing on my rights. I was trying to drive to work [I had to close a deal with some fellow's in Hong Kong], but you guys were blocking a public space and preventing me from creating 7,000 U.S. jobs. The police actaully showed considerable constraint. In my day we would just fire grapeshot into the mob until the peons dispersed.

You fuckers were infringing on my rights. I was trying to drive to work [I had to close a deal with some fellow's in Hong Kong], but you guys were blocking a public space and preventing me from creating 7,000 U.S. jobs. The police actaully showed considerable constraint. In my day we would just fire grapeshot into the mob until the peons dispersed.

Naive, inexperienced bastards ! Loud claims that You'll make worldwide revolution, and now it turns out that You don't have even a cheap $20 gas mask which is a must-have personal protection for street protesters. Did You understand that the true revolution is not for You ?
The government (the "1%" as You call them) is not going to give up to your slogans, You do not have resources for real fight, so YOU have to surrender ?

The "99" are NOT asking for SOMETHING for NOTHING. They're DEMANDING to WORK a job, PAY their bills, AFFORD to have health insurance and then...
STILL have money to pay the deductible and co-pay, possibly
WORK some more and retire right after
PAYING for their kids college. All while living in decent health and not having to DECIDE how much they buy for FOOD because they can't AFFORD gas to get to work!!!! do you see the DEBACLE?!?!?

This is why Occupy is there and here.. and oh wait! OVERSEAS TOO! This is a world issue with the general social conscious, in a Global Economy, beginning to awaken!
The Global Market has functioned with "business as usual" attitude for so long that people around the world regardless, of whether or not its "legal" to do so, in their country,
ARE SAYING NO!
They ARE STLL OCCUPYING.
They occupy their country, state, city, county. There is no other choice but to occupy. We all live here. Make it a better place as much as you can for ALL.

Lame, if it went down like this its a shame, brings back memories of kids sticking daisys in the barrels of national guard soldiers guns, my thoughts go out to anyone injured by the police, unfortunately i feel this is just the beginning

Mayor Jean Quan should be placed under arrest immediately for inciting violence against U.S. citizens and conspiring to cause a riot. This is what terrorists do, not public servants. These people are our employees, we pay their salaries.

I think that attention needs to be paid to the fact that the first police use of weapons was in Liberal Oakland. There is no Liberal government, only a repressive government. In Greece the people resorted to Molotov cocktails.

Regular citizens use their own park to express their grievances via the first amendment, and they get shot at by police.
Wall Street crooks cause the biggest economic meltdown in history and are rewarded with taxpayer-funded bailouts and bonuses.
What's wrong with this picture?
http://www.gallerymjb.com

I was returning bottles and cans at a Kroger in Michigan a few days ago, and there was a sign on the can/bottle return machine that said if anyone tries to return bottles and cans from other states or other countries, they could get a $5,000 fine and 5 years in prison. REALLY.... just for putting the wrong cans and bottles in the machines? And to think that some murderers and rapists get off on in much less than 5 years.

Our system it totally fucked up. The judicial system is run by money. Crimes that have to do with theft and money laundering, etc. are punished MORE than crimes against people (murder, rape, assault, abuse, etc.).

Really? Your statement lacks logic. The issue here is ABUSE OF AUTHORITY.... which has NOTHING to do with Obama's jobs bill and putting more cops on the street. Abuse of authority among police and other city officials is rampant in this country and needs to be stopped.

Lol, you really thought you could just rock up and demand the stuff of other people and not expect some resistance? The state has as much right to protect you as it does the supposed "one percent". Protesters start throwing stones and other objects at the police and the police retaliate by dispersing the crowd, as do all riot police in the world, and one person gets hurt and you think that's "brutality"?

Do you even have a leader that has a clear list of demands that they can state? Other than, "Give us everything because we believe we are the 99 %"? You not the 99 %, that's an impossibility in and of itself. Get over yourselves and start working at the bottom like everyone else. There are millions of Chinese, Indians and Mexicans more than willing to take your jobs, that your forefathers left you, at half the amount currently paid.

Your founding fathers would be shocked. They didn't fight a war so that they could get things for free, they fought so that they could WORK for a living without having to pay tax to a foreign power.

In light of that, if you truly want to "stick it to the man" and make it hurt, stop paying federal tax! No federal tax means, NO BAILOUTS! You will of course be arrested and jailed but then again, REVOLUTION is never easy!

It's funny how eager people are to swollow the official line about rocks being thrown... without even considering the neccessity of police showing up en masse to snuff out a peaceful gathering of peole who are trying to make the world a better place. If you think the protests are laughable, you obviously haven't bothered to get off your rear end and check one out.

Believe me, I drove down the streets of a town in Colorado reading the signs and listening to the protesters. Believe me, in my eye, it WAS laughable. Only my wife kept me from parking the car and sharing a few things with the victimized blame mongers.

In one form or another, I was being held personally responsible for every one of their problems

The CEO's and VP's are one person only as identified by the protesters and evidenced by their description of the 1% they keep referring to. You got a piece of the information right.
Personally responsible - Did you forget that this is my country too, my government.
Those were not protest signs. They were public complaints made by people protesting intentionally for me to view. When you hold up a sign in front of my windshield, don't think I will take it any other way than personally.

Correct.
Ask yourself why city peace officers are armed as military troops now and why this country has built and staffed huge FEMA camps. Why does the US government have laws on the books that effectively make slavery legal in those FEMA camps and private prisons?
They were expecting a resistance to evolve and are hoping for an excuse to bust heads and then imprison the masses who object.

Any person who takes an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution is breaking that oath by following orders to attack peaceful protesters.
Scott Olson is a patriot and my prayers are with him for a full recovery.

I think you are one of the ones who has his head buried under the hill lol. unless you are telling me that you work for the police state?
well let me assure you that there are indeed many many more of us than there are of you and the world will not suffer under your system forever.

Either way, behind the hill or under the hill, one of these days, me and a lot more of the so called middle class are going to pop up and give you something to chew on other than our asses all the time.

l
Listen up jackass. I am the middle class. I own my home-paid for in cash with money that I earned working. I am not protesting the middle class, asking for a hand out, a dirty hippie ect.. I have three fully grown adult children who are law abiding productive citizens and a grandchild whos future I am fighting for. The corrupt system that has evolved in this nation has to end. We as a nation can not continue to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that everything is ok. When our congress is for sale to the highest bidder our (the 99% who cannot afford to buy legislation) system no longer works the way it was intended. Get it?
"It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn't happening. It didn't matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It's a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis." Harold Pinter 2005 Nobel acceptance speech

No, technically, the 1% can't exist without the support of the 99%, and if they could, it wouldn't be for very long. You're behind the hill? Doing what exactly? Swimming in your money silo? Or are you just someone that abhors the idea of change, so you cower to the 1%? Are you the type that says, "I'm doing fine! Everyone that's protesting is asking for handouts!"? Because, if that's what you believe, then you don't understand at all. Maybe it's time to move from behind the hill and educate yourself on the current situation in this country.

I do beg to differ with you. Let's just say that some of the 1% can't exist without the suckers of this world and cannot stand up to the pressures of Congress or others to do what they themselves can see as high risk.

I bought a house, got a loan through a local independent bank, not BofA or some other conglomerate. My loan was based on my ability to work, make enough to make the payments, my past record of honoring my debts, etc. I really couldn't have done it without them and they are one of the most financially stable independent banks in the USA, so probably are up there in the 1%. They are not going to sell my loan to the bigger guys, to bundle and resell, or anything like that there was nothing "toxic" about our work together. I didn't lie to them and they didn't lie to me. They don't deal in those kind of things. They really didn't even have to check with Barney Frank, Fannie or Freddie to get approval to do all of this and none of them were breathing down their neck to tell them they had to. It was a simple deal between two pretty honest and simple men. I expect they will live up to the agreement and I know that I will. I didn't go in there with hat in hand, begging for a loan greater than I could ever repay, on a house that was bloated in price and insured by my Government. I may be beind in "the times" but i ain't behind the hill. (not addressing the matter of "OVER the hill here-just won't go there).

To a certain extent, I do abhor change. I abhor the change that has happened in my country over the past few decades. The change that says banks are bad, bad, bad. Since when and who made them so bad. Do my fellow citizen's who had their hand out for "bad deals" have any responsibility in this downfall. The loans that drove this to the forefront of our concerns did not start with a "bad move" up on Wall Street. That was merely where it showed up. That loan did not originate in New York City, it originated in Las Vegas, in Phoenix, in Detroit. and the chickens came home to roost.
Ask my bank why they are not swamped with foreclosures. Our economy is not that great, our unemployment rate is above the national average (or was, until a couple thousands of my neighbors moved out of the area).
This may not sit well with some, but the 1% and the 99% do need each other. If the 1% can't survive without the 99%, what leads us to say that the 99% can survive without the 1%. I sure do depend upon them but I am also very selective.
You see, I am one of those very staunch CONSERVATIVES, that so many like to kick around these days. But conservative relates to my personal philosophy of things whether they be financial, religious, political, government, inter personal .........Not to some way of life that only applies as someone else says it will apply. I really don't think that the 1% changed me as much as the 99% changed the 1%. Split the 99% in half and you will see who led the charge to change things here in America. Go ahead and protest, just be sure you are protesting where the changes need to be made and not where all the symptoms are showing up.

I won't disagree that some people made bad choices, and I won't disagree that Wall Street isn't the source of the problem. I also have a job and a home and make a decent income, but I've seen many of my friends who owned homes and over the past three years, their payment has more than doubled (two of which led to foreclosure). The problem is that the bank CEOs are making millions upon millions of dollars, and yet the banks themselves are losing money. The way they try to recoup this isn't by shaving the CEO salary at all; it's by screwing over the customer and raising rates. These people originally got into loans they could easily afford but due to contract loopholes, they can no longer (or can just barely) afford them. Take into account all the shady business practices of the major banks, and it's crippling people.

Just because I'm doing well for myself doesn't mean I don't understand the plight of others. What some of these banks are doing to the economy (like BofA's $74 trillion dollar toxic derivatives) is ridiculous, and the politicians just let it happen, because it's good for the 1% that backs them during their campaigns. It's selfish and doesn't protect the people they're charged to protect. A lot of people have a lot of reason to be pissed off.

And on the flip side of that, the 1% needs the 99%, because that's who they steal their money from.

It's funny how eager people are to jump on to the only point they can counter and call it a valid argument. Theundecidedpercent is completely correct, the movement doesn't even represent the bottom 20% of the population. And just for the record to reach the top 1% it only takes about $1.2 million in assets. Also 1 of 3 Americans have no mortgage, and 1 of 2 have no credit card debt. Whoever claimed "we are the 99%" obviously didn't check their numbers.

If 1 of 2 have no credit card debt its probably because they already defaulted...

In any case, it doesn't matter who represents who, or how much money it takes to be the 1%; what matters is that people should not be brutally attacked for voicing their opinions on the subject.

I don't even know what you are trying to say in "the movement doesn't even represent the bottom 20% of the population"... obviously not everyone in the bottom 20% agrees... BUT that does not neccessairly mean that those people chanting in the streets are not part of the 99%, nor does the fact that you disagree mean they are not advocating for the 99%.

Check your logic, that's like saying a person can not be a patient advocate because some patients might disagree with what she is advocating.

In today's financial world - There are a LOT a really big LOT. Own an average home in California and you are 1/2 way there, NO?? Make one movie and you have zoomed past most of the ones already in the 1%. Win one worthless lawsuit and you are well over the 1.2 Million mark.
Just a suggestion, you might change that statement to: the fact that it only takes 1.2 million to make 1% tells you how many actually can get there. .

Yes. Thank you! Solidarity with Oakland. Keep keeping on. We're going to win. The more force they use to suppress the people's voice, the closer we are to victory. This kind of brutality is inexcusable and peace will prevail.

Did your parents molest you as a child or something cause you are one, deluded, miserable fucking angry elf arnt you!

I hope I pass you one day in the street, when you are eating dogshit out the gutter to stay alive, when I am with my local community because I had the sense to use my own brain rather unlike you who seems obviously completely brainwashed by Fox et al thinking that everything is A OK.

When I pass you on the street, I may offer a helping hand, then I will probably pull it away and laugh at you, you pathetic little cunt.

Please note that ronj and ronjj are the same person. Seems someone thought that my right to free speech was being over extended in these posts and thus, I could not sign on again under the first name.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Rights??

Hello again. Check and see, all fee people of America might already be chaged. Try your protest in China, how about Mexico, Cuba, Russia ....... Bet that cage will look pretty good if you get back alive.

Suggested reading ANDERSONVILLE, a book from the late 1880's.
You will see the relationships that form (are forming) within a cage.

Hilarious. You do realize that in Oakland the city government has been delegitimized by their use of force don't you? And their use of force was an abject failure. The occupy movement in oakland is now an international example of successful resistance.

I think you are projecting your own weaknesses upon others. Please come out of your cave and join humanity. The light won't hurt forever. You will adjust to using your eyes. I promise. hopefully your brain will start working too.

No your mistaking I don't think you understand that even when it comes to protesting there are rules to follow just like everything else. this is not a rights moment being crushed it a dumb group of protestors who did not know that their right have limitations like everyone else right. So to you the American way is if you think your justified you can break all the rules. Isint that waht we claim were fighting people .

sorry there are rules to everything here in America you break no matter how good your cause is. If im dying from cancer it's ok to steal money to pay for my meds. Nope I still gots to follow the rules (well at least i follow the rules) there buddy. Welcome back to the real world, your welcome

Cause people you need to check your facts i cant do everything for you. the Oakland protestors mad some very dumb mistakes in following protocol technically(oh and throwing rocks and beer bottle at cops in riot gear, hmm i would try to leave those guys at home next time), by law they were protesting illegally which means lets go over this again "your breaking the law, and the law has means to punish you" so sorry you don't get to run around like a little kid cause you have a good cause ( i admit i dont really get it 100% but im trying) you stiil have to act like a law biding citizen and follow the rules Many before you had to follow them and hopefully many more after you will do a better job. If your going to take on the responsibility of heading a revolution. Make sure you understand how it works, and when you f it up don't blame others for your ignorance. Is this how we got here in the first place. By making dumb decisions and then not taking responsibility for it. So if Oakland protesters want to act like they did nothing wrong and that it was 100% not their fault. Then we might as well all give up and go home cause they obviously don't have what it really takes to bring down a super power if they cant even figure out how a protest works.

Interesting stance. The occupy movement in oakland is at present extraordinarily successful It appears that local gov't and the police pushed too hard and are suffering from it. We'll see what hapens to the interim police chief, and the mayor. neither of their futures is guaranteed. And to move forward they will have to cooperate with the very popular occupation. AND The occupation itself now boasts a GA of around 2000 people. Thats only the GA not the numbers that turn out at demonstrations. Its a wild success. And will continue to be so.

You are way off base. Placing your ignorance on display is not helping your case.

If you want to come down from your hidey hole on the internet and participate you might learn something. Please do. Its fine to oppose us, but at least educate yourself about what is going on.

Not a stance its a fact. Successful non violent protests with hotter topics that this have been going on before you and me were even around.
I agree whom ever made the call to set out the police in that manner should be fired but I also think the person who is calling the shots for the protestors should also step down cause, obviously they don't know what they were doing or not one person would have had to been subject to any violence. As I said before this was an act based on two groups failure to make the protesting process work nothing more. I think whomever is trying to turn this into some kind of military state that's out to steal our rights is the problem. And im not hiding on the internet im sorry that i can just drop everything im doing and come down there to hear all your sad stories, I have a sad story to but i decide to fix it myself.
I dont oppose you Im just not with you. I just dont want you try to turn this into something it's not, a we vs them thing. Its a dumb reaction to a dumb action.

Your ignorance continues to shine through. This is a leaderless movement. No one is callign the shots. And yet despite that it has ben a peaceful movement. All objective sources remark on the peacefulness under fire that the demonstrations have shown. And this despite the history of hostility between police and the people of oakland.

Then you go further in an attempt to mischaracterize my statements. I've seen this online schtiock too many times.I don't believe that you are here for honest debate.

Look my beef is that I think your taking something that does have some merit and acting like its the most important thing that will ever happen. So important that YOU can break rules and any enforcement will be called some kind of oppression.
I don't really have a problem with your protesting. The fact that you guys screwed up and instead of taking responsibility you turn it into some radical BS story is what bothers me.
In my opinion its your responsibility to admit you made a mistake so others will take heed and not make the same mistake. I'm sorry but I think this s going to get people fired up for the wrong reasons. I already see it and if you can't then i don't think I'm the ignorant one.

Why should we follow the rules? Look at any successful non-violent movement in the world. Did they achieve their goals by meekly putting their heads down every night and going home? Did they garner attention by quietly following the rules of assembly? Even Tiannamen, which was brutally crushed by military force, only became legendary because of the students there stood up and broke the law. Tahrir, the Civil Rights Movement, Acampanadas --- all of those would be "illegal" protests under U.S. law. You know that we've had permitted, law-abiding, demonstrations for years and years and years. Nobody listened, nobody cared, until now.

hmm so now its ok to break rules if you deem it ok, if everyone broke the rules for their cause could we not end up in a crazy situation that could put the whole country in turmoil, oh wait it already is. I am trying so hard to be behind this but a large majority of things I read have this kind of message. Since were doing it, it's ok cause we are right. Well what if a group comes along with just as much passion and there message is not deemed "good" what then, then they have to follow the rules but not you. These are the kind of things that this movement has to be aware of, you can't step on other peoples rights. I know you have good intentions but it's obvious your not all on the same page on many many issues, and that a good majority don't even understand how the process actually works. Make sure that your not being a hypocrite claiming your fighting for people while at the same time thumbing your nose at the people who do respect the laws even if we to are effected by the same crap your concerned with.

WOW indeed. Perhaps, right up to the point where you trash the RESPONSIBILITIES that go with those RIGHTS and you end up with the loss of both.
My lifetime experience has found that those who yell RIGHTS the loudest usually mean MY RIGHTS and YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES
Why do you believe that Martin Luther King and that movement came out ahead. In my opinion it was because they reached the perfect blend of RIGHTS and RESPONSIBILITIES and everyone won the victory.
Is this also unamerican, The Constitution does give you the right to assembly, protest, etc. That does not include the right to protest in my front year, in my business, in my house, in JCPenney, without a permit, if a permit to required, ...........
Protest all you want, it is the American thing to do. Check out you responsibilities first.

I feel for Americans...they will have to fight for the basics again just like Lybians, Syrians and the rest of the Arab world. Not that I think that Canada is any better. We are slaves to big business and anyone who thinks not is fooling themselves. USA was the light of Liberty 40 years ago...now like it's economy it is an also ran. The people of the US are the most productive in the world...it will be the people that saves the US and not Wall Street or the Government.

May I come visit? Everything I have seen, indicates you live in one of he most beautiful areas there is.

We can only hope that this fight will be led by those Americans who still hold a spark of the light that once made this country great.

I know that spark exists and that it will ignite once again among the working people of this country and those that can see beyond their personal greedy agendas. Shuffling the problem from one player to the other (Wall Street, Government,corporations) is just putting a cloak over the problem and passing the buck.

We have a lot of problems facing us, all groups have already proven their inability to add anything constructive to the solutions. The OWSers had the chance, but they have blown any credibility by passing out their band-aids to everyone who ever had a gripe about anything that exists in the country.

A leaderless protest is right. There are a lot of leaders in the protest. Probably more leaders than people with credible ideas. Now the protest is in the process of cutting these leaders down (be is a chat room monitor, etc etc). This will lead to super leaders coming to the forefront having cut everyone else down to size. Sound like history rehashed???
Some ideas abound but

You are completely obfuscating the issue with straw men. The right to assembly is not right to trespass, but it is impossible to trespass in PUBLIC space. So it has nothing to do with all of the private spaces you mention. HOWEVER, the constitution clearly states that no law can be made to impinge upon this right.

ah, you're on the right track. Follow it one step further >Your right for you to peacefully assemble, can't then interfere with my rights. E.g., if you are hogging a public space and making it unsanitary, then it interferes with my right to use that space. Now you've superseded your right to use it yourself.

Did you see "peacefully" anywhere in there? Did it mention "PUBLIC" space.

My interpretation for all this is different. What is really means is that you have the right to assembly on your property, that you own legally
have purchased or have a rental contract on (unless such a large group in your "rental" might cause a hazard to your neighbors, so you have to use the community room downstairs, if someone hasn't alread booked it for use by others at that time. And if your group doesn't exceed the posted fire department occupancy allowance, and this could go on forever.

Get a damn permit, if allowed and stop upsetting the whole world in the process.

Hm. I don't really understand the string of responses to my last post... Everyone took this in a direction completely unintended in my response and not only that, extrapolating meaning that is nowhere near what I was expressing.

The only way to make real change be it in life, society, or the world, is to transcend all barriers. Those who call to "follow the rules" in such a situation as this are the fools. Follow human rights, follow ethics, follow the heart -- follow the tao, but don't follow "the rules." The point of protesting is to point out the serious fallacy and failure of the rules... what does it serve us to adhere to broken principles? Who is stopping you from living the life you want to live, today? Isn't that what this is about? Empowerment? People telling other people that they're not going to be controlled any longer!

Free yourself from the boxes. Don't talk patronizingly to me just because you can hide behind a computer screen. It doesn't serve you. Making assumptions about strangers based off of your own ego judgment of a two line post is not only the opposite of what we're trying to achieve, it's a total waste of energy.

I don't speak against change. I speak for peace and the peaceful protesters in Oakland who exercised their right to assemble. It is a human right to walk the streets without having tear gas shot at you. No matter what the police/city government claim about the situation, they were wrong. They only wanted to suppress the movement because it was irritating them that it was there. Yes, honor each other... but don't just follow "rules" ... the police need to understand what this means as much as we do. Consciousness. Not blindness.

When a movement remains peaceful in the face of violence, peace ultimately prevails. Humans do not favor violent parties ESPECIALLY when the violence is projected upon nonviolent parties. Nonviolent parties give others the strength to meet violence and oppression without fear. Violence is only a tool of fear, and once that fear has been penetrated by nonviolence, it dissolves completely. This has been proven again and again.

How long have we been oppressed with violence and fear? Isn't it about time for something else?

No your not doing the right think your causing people to go out and do stupid stuff like throw bottles and rocks at cops in riot gear.
Look at your cause your crying cause u cant buy a new car. Your not oppressed, your not being forced to do anything, your not slaves, your not all dying, your not being slaughtered for burgers. There is no big cause there is no big revolution. Go Home spend time with your family.

Why should we care what Noam Chomsky thinks. Of course he likes to see these ass clowns flapping their gums. He gets to do more of his whacky language development experiments on them. He is using them as a means to his career driven goals.

I hope that tonight, as you march in solidarity with Oakland, you CONTRAST the force that wants to push you down with a force like Aikido. If there are people in assembly who know Aikido or are Aikido practitioners (Aikido is performed by blending with the motion of the attacker and redirecting the force of the attack rather than opposing it head-on), I might suggest that they take the front line.
Everyone's mind should be focused on the movement of the march and have a clear understanding of their personal objective (showing solidarity).
TONIGHT your walk should reflect the mournful expressions we feel versus the anger, for to me, I want to show the country that I am disturbed, saddened, yet unrelenting in my passion for this cause.

It is very important that we aren't always seen as angry, ungrateful, spoiled, college-kids. I am 55 years old. I want to show respect for those who took the shots yesterday. I want you to walk in peace. Light candles. Tonight is about contrasting the brutality. Our anger is expressed in the very nature of our protests. Tonight is different.

Thank you Socrates469bc
The Mayor's voicemailbox is full at the number above. I was unable to get through to the police chief, but will keep trying. I am also writing an email to both. Although to write the Mayor, I need to prove residency! and I am out of state. I'll send snail mail if necessary!

At the Oakland PD website there is this:
--If you have something to say about an interaction with any of our officers,
Go to "Quality of Service" - (this is a link where you download a complaint form.)
You can make a commendation, file a complaint, or report misconduct.

Hello! Its interesting that you think someone standing up for the constitution is un-American while on the contrary it is the most American activity any American for the love of land and liberty can engage in. Our country was founded on the principles of free speech, civil action, and at times disobedience to protect the rights of the people.

I am familiar with your argument. Its sad that you fall for the old trick of calling dissenters "Marxists, communists, socialists, etc...." as an excuse not to listen or to invalidate their arguments. Well sorry buddy...... no matter what you want to call us WE ARE HERE AND WE WILL NOT STOP!!!!! WE ARE RESPONSIBLE AMERICANS STANDING UP FOR FREEDOM JUST LIKE OUR FOREFATHERS!