Yeah...Apotheoun, Cavaradossi, Nine_Two...there are good quality posters there, but they are outnumbered by others who want to assert Roman prerogatives over even Eastern Catholics' own devotions, as we see again most recently in arguments about how ECCs shouldn't celebrate post-schism Eastern saints, which is just silly.

Think about it, Peter J: If the Melkites, for instance, came into union with Rome in the 17th century, isn't it a bigger disruption to their traditional spirituality (which Rome has called them, and the other Eastern Catholic Churches, to come back to) to tell them to stop venerating saints from their Orthodox past, in order that they should be "more Catholic" or what have you? A similar example could be made of, say, St. Isaac of Nineveh who is venerated in both the EO and OO (and as far as I know, also in the Catholic communion), despite not being a member of either. To put it another way, a person's Orthodoxy does not change based on who venerates him. If the Melkites want to venerate post-schism saints from their pre-Catholic days, why not? I would much rather have Coptic Catholics looking to the likes of St. Severus (if that happens; I don't know, I just mean it as an example) than Thomas Aquinas or Therese of Lisieux or someone else who really has no basis being in their tradition but is suddenly held up as an example for them purely because it's somehow 'wrong' to venerate their own saints. If it wouldn't have been wrong before the 18th century when they came into union with Rome, why is it suddenly wrong now? Unless, of course, you want to say it's Rome's prerogative to deform their traditional spirituality (which I think would be most honest, but also not anything an ECC would be likely to say/admit/believe), at which point you'd have to wonder what it means to be an Eastern Catholic at all. Either Rome is really serious about this "return to your traditions" thing or she isn't.

Alright, I guess the question is: Does it cut both ways? Specifically, we know that you regard it as silly for Catholics to say that other Catholics shouldn't celebrate post-schism Orthodox saints ... but do you also think it's silly for Orthodox to say that other Orthodox shouldn't celebrate post-schism Catholic saints? (I would be surprised if you said Yes to that, but based on your last post I'm guessing you won't.)

The difference, Peter J, is that since the Eastern Catholic Churches did not exist until several centuries after the Great Schism, it is not alien to their (Orthodox, or at least Orthodox-rooted) tradition to venerate post-schism saints that were already commemorated prior to their union with Rome. There is no such similar circumstance regarding Roman Catholic saints vis-a-vis the Orthodox Church.

The difference, Peter J, is that since the Eastern Catholic Churches did not exist until several centuries after the Great Schism, it is not alien to their (Orthodox, or at least Orthodox-rooted) tradition to venerate post-schism saints that were already commemorated prior to their union with Rome. There is no such similar circumstance regarding Roman Catholic saints vis-a-vis the Orthodox Church.

I guess we are, to some extent, on the same page. I do think that uniatism had a certain "bait and switch" element to it. (That might sound a bit cliche. If so I'm sorry, but I can't think of a better way of putting it, at least not at the moment.) Kinda lacking the old you'll-have-to-change-which-saints-you-venerate-once-you're-Catholic speech.

Alright, I guess the question is: Does it cut both ways? Specifically, we know that you regard it as silly for Catholics to say that other Catholics shouldn't celebrate post-schism Orthodox saints ... but do you also think it's silly for Orthodox to say that other Orthodox shouldn't celebrate post-schism Catholic saints? (I would be surprised if you said Yes to that, but based on your last post I'm guessing you won't.)

submitting to the Vatican requires so much revisionism, what is a little more? Conforming to Orthodoxy requires a great deal and strict standards.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

You should receive a PM that states that you've been suspended. Or at least I did. And then when I tried to log in, it said "Your account is suspended. Duration: One month." Maybe they've changed the regulations on how suspensions work recently, though, as I have been told by others that the way I was suspended wasn't in line with CAF's stated procedure (as there was no warning or anything).

They banned me once, without ever telling me why at all. No messages, nothing. Later, I went back under a different name. They didn't catch it because by then, I also had a different computer and e-mail.

Do I win something?

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He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

I'd like to pose a question to all of you who are not on CAF these days: Would you return if they once again had an Eastern Christianity Forum (assuming that they unbanned those of you who have been banned)?

Incidentally, I'm technically back on CAF as of last night / this morning; but I don't exactly have something on the tip of my tongue that I've just been waiting to say (I haven't read much of anything there in the last few days).

Fish Eaters kind of depresses me. When I'm there, I feel like we're on the verge of a good (or great) conversation, yet I just know the opportunity will be ruined somehow.

I find the general atmosphere to be just a bit strange. I can understand the attachment of the posters to traditon. I too wish that we could eliminate modernism in the Church. It's also understandable why the posters want to remain Catholic. That is the faith they know. But in the case of many FE posters, their position is inconsistent. If theses people really believe that the Catholic Church has defected, then it seems that one can no longer believe that the Catholic Church is the Church of the Apostles.

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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

So apparently you are not allowed to talk about the Eastern Rites for Sacraments in the Liturgy and Sacraments section

I discovered that 4 years ago. :p I hardly ever post there as I found the people to be too fanatical and paranoid. Some of them make the Spanish Inquisition look like a game of checkers.

In Christ,Andrew

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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

I just got an infraction for agreeing with someone (who is Orthodox) that the Eucharist should be distributed with both Body and Blood of Christ.

Shame on you! You just betrayed the teachings of Catholic Faith! You, schismatic, you! that's okay. The worst that happened to me was getting a rebuke from Marduk about becoming Orthodox and some posts/threads deleted without warning.

In Christ,Andrew

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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

I just got an infraction for agreeing with someone (who is Orthodox) that the Eucharist should be distributed with both Body and Blood of Christ.

Shame on you! You just betrayed the teachings of Catholic Faith! You, schismatic, you! that's okay. The worst that happened to me was getting a rebuke from Marduk about becoming Orthodox and some posts/threads deleted without warning.

In Christ,Andrew

Yes, shame on me! The Eastern Catholic Rites of Sacraments should never be discussed in the Sacraments section of a Catholic forum. Never!

Not only that, but 90-some% of Roman Catholic parishes now distribute the Body and Blood both at each Mass, along with (afaik) all the Eastern Catholic ones, and the Orthodox. So what sense does a truly Catholic (as opposed to Truly Traditional Tridentine Catholic [In Name Only](R)) forum have in shutting down discussion like that

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Where even the last two or three are gathered in His name, He is there in their midst.

Not only that, but 90-some% of Roman Catholic parishes now distribute the Body and Blood both at each Mass, along with (afaik) all the Eastern Catholic ones, and the Orthodox. So what sense does a truly Catholic (as opposed to Truly Traditional Tridentine Catholic [In Name Only](R)) forum have in shutting down discussion like that

Ah, gotcha! Utraquist!

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"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

I think the mod just doesn't want us Eastern Catholics telling Roman Catholics how good we have it

I mean, with Communion in both kinds and married Priests and kids under the age of reason receiving Chrismation (confirmation) and Communion, they might jump en masse from Roman Catholicism into Eastern Catholicism

"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying