Friend, we're trying to help this guy - warn him off. Sure, we've been a bit tongue-in-cheek, but that's because Q paints such a sorry-ass picture of himself: "not good looking," "if he wanted to be a teacher , but does," (whatever that means) - a Norwegian degree in Japanese, "expects to get something positive out of a teaching career"... I'm trying to be amusing, but Quagles is an unintentional barrel of laughs.

Last edited by Janiny on Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total

And first of all, I feel I have to apologize for not replying before now. The last days have been needless to say, quite hectic and because of that I haven't got the time before now to really sit down and write anything. I really didn't expect the thread to his this many replies.

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Next time you might want to put a more descriptive title than "I need some advice"

Dully noted, I didn't really think it much through.

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You'll be able to get a position somewhere. You're Caucasian, you're breathing, you speak English (and I'm assuming you don't have any STDs): You're in!

As far as finding a decent position, you'll just have to throw yourself in the water and see what happens.

Thanks for encouraging words. I hope one day I might be able to do it at least, I can't tell for now where I'll be in a few years.

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There are so many non native speakers teaching English here in China that it is not even funny.

In my company there are a couple but they are proven teachers and have stuck with the company since the early days through thick and thin.

So unfortunately in the OPs case, as a newbie, you are going to have to risk an F-visa and (potentially) unscrupulous employers.

Don't worry it just means you'll have to do your homework more thoroughly. Visit the schools, talk to the current teachers (non native) and find out how they deal with the visa issue and if they get paid reliably.

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I reckon you could teach in Norway for a few years and then move into the international school circuit and never return to Norway again (if thats your thing). That route would be your best route to sustainably living/teaching abroad long term.

Yeah you might get a visa now that is 100% legit. But will you get the next visa? Will the rules change/tighten to make it even harder for a non-native? Will your employers guanxi wear thin?

Go the right route and you will be able to get out ... become a certified teacher in your own country and I would bet the international school door will open. And even if it doesnt turn out to be what you want, the door to go home and continue teaching in Norway will still be open.

Or you could skip the above, get a semi-legal/slighty dodgy/downright illegal visa, keep your fingers crossed and live contract to contract. And be fit for little more than flipping burgers when you finally get kicked out and have to go home.

This is my biggest fear, that ill start working in Norway to get experience, only to find the rules changing and becoming stricter when it comes to non-native speakers of English. Teaching isn't a necessarily very rewarding job in Norway, neither in terms of payment or satisfaction(The only upside is plenty of vacation) as the students are generally ridiculously lazy and problematic to deal with. Then again, life has its risks and rewards, its harding to know which path that will lead you to happiness, and which will lead you to a life full of regret. Honestly if I ended up teaching in Norway rest of my life I'd imagine myself being miserable.

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I make it six countries - UK, Ireland, Australia, Canada, US and New Zealand.
(MOT cert is valid for the instant it is issued. It will always be the driver's responsibility to ensure car is roadworthy.
If you kill someone through bald tires don't waste your breath telling the judge about your 'valid' MOT).
Re job. I say it can be done, although there has been a progressive tightening up over the years I've been involved in ESL.
This is why some long serving non natives are continuing to teach.
They probably wouldn't get in if they applied afresh now.
Look at the less desirable areas, but get applying NOW!
No amount of input on Dave's will get you a job.
Do not however, come on a tourist visa no matter how desperate you are.

Again kind of what I feared. Most people who stay there now that are non native has probably already stayed there for such a long time already that for them finding a new job is far less hassle than for a newcomer.

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It's people like you what cause unrest. If you are not a native speaker or a real teacher, or even very good looking, why don't you just butt out? Your sort give our humble profession a bad name. I mean, you don't see me applying to be chief drum beater in a Viking longboat, or whatever it is you Norwegians are good for. Just go visit China if you're so wet for it, spend a few eurodollars, get some and go home. It is the bread and butter of many of us to go to places like China and make a living on our native wit. Even if you're English is excellent it can't be up to par with a native's.

Excuse, me but despite or perhaps because of your white skin helping you along , you are basically an impostor and a poseur. It's not my fault the Chinese don't want to learn Norsk. deal with it!

You say you studied Japanese; why not visit Japan? Visit. Don't embarrass yourself and my profession by pretending you have knowledge to impart. Sorry to be so harsh, but you come off as way too happy-go-lucky.

Ouch that's harsh. So what if I'm not a native speaker? There are plenty of non native speakers that are just as good, and in some cases even better teachers than native speakers. Most native speakers who doesn't have an degree related to the English language in some sense usually have next to no knowledge when it comes to grammar and explaining the rules that governs the language. I occasionally teach foreigners Norwegian, but I can never come up with a sensible answer if they ask me anything regarding the grammar in Norwegian. I can only tell them what sounds more natural to me. On the other hand, when teach foreigners English I can at least provide an explanation why what they are saying or writing is wrong.

If you want to be a chief drum beater in a Viking longboat, and that is something you really want to do... Then I say, go for it! You only live once, your lifespan is so don't let anyone stop your dreams. Now my wish, is to spend as little years as I can as possible in Norway, and this is something I'm aspiring to do. Whether I become a teacher in a foreign country, or find a completely different path, I will do my uttermost to realize that wish.

Oh yeah, and I'm visiting Japan in just a few months, can't wait.

[quote](sigh) I looked over the OP again and Quagles irritates me more than ever, but to be fair he does seem ready to get a teaching certificate:
Quagles wrote:

- Will have a bachelor "soon", but its a useless one (Japanese), but I also have the option to finish up a bachelor in English by taking two additional courses (Unfortunately only offered spring semesters...). I can also opt for taking a one year course which basically gives me the certificate to teach certain subjects in my country (English is one of them), which is offered for students which have finished their bachelor's degree...

He studied Japanese? Was he planning to be a sushi chef? Such frivolity! And I thought Scandinavians were a dour folk!
This is the annoying bit:
Quagles wrote:
If I actually wanted to be a teacher, this wouldn't really have been an issue. Then I'd just go and take the additional year, and get my teachers license. The problem is while I DO want to be a teacher, I don't want to be a teacher in Norway for more than a few years, I really want out of here. I don't want to get stuck as a teacher in Norway who isn't able to get out. Then I might as well just go for a better paying career and live with the hope that I would get picked up by an international firm, thus my ticket out of the country.

So Quagles lives in a country I or any Chinese would cut off her left arm to live in , and it's not good enough for him!?
Quagles wrote:
I really want to go to China and teach but I fear that the only options ill get is shady jobs who won't offer me a visa, underpaid jobs due to not being a native speaker, illegal jobs and so on. Location, while it of course naturally matters a bit, I don't mind being stuck in the sticks. (As long as they speak Mandarin)

I just can't for the life of me decide if its worth the risk or not, I feel like I'm already in a bad enough position as it is. I've made enough mistakes in my life, I've made far too many of them, and I don't want to do it yet again. Life has definently had its ups and downs, and I don't want this to be another disappointment.This time I want to make it right, and to be sure that my future path will take me somewhere ill be satisified. I'd love to teach ESL, but as a non native, and with the rest of my situation as I described, it just makes me wonder if I'm gonna be able to get a job, and to get a job that won't leave me empty handed.

Blah blah blah, yada yada. Well, welcome to my world Quagle, you privileged child. But you will be involved in shady dealings, you will be taken advantage of and you will return home empty-handed, save for your edumacation in the school of hard knocks. That's life in capitalist countries like the U.S. and China. If you were not such a naif, you'd know that while China claims to be communist, it's market is in reality freer (and certainly less regualtion bound) than the European Union's. Stay home, my little lamb, and go on being a sheep because innocents like you are soon mutton in harsher climes.[quote]

Alright, so after reading all of your posts I figured the best way is probably to try and explain a bit more in detail. First of all, ill explain exactly why I studied Japanese. I'll shorten down the story a bit. Looking back in my past I had no goals in my life, nothing I wanted to really achieve, nothing I wanted to do, nothing. I jumped around trying different careers, different jobs but to no enjoyment. Then a few years ago I set my sights into doing a career in either law or business, but when it was time for applying for schools I changed my mind yet again. I have years behind with depression, and I knew going into either of those career paths would not make me happy. Sure it would give me great job opportunities, but I don't see myself enjoying doing anything related to either of those career paths. So I decided on Japanese. I knew it was a useless education, I'm not an idiot by any means. Now that I look back, do I regret my choice? Both yes and no. If I picked it, I'd might have much brighter future prospects than I do now. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't have been as happy as I am now. The last few years have been some of the best years in my long and generally miserable life. I've learned a lot about myself and what I really enjoy doing in life. I've made what is hopefully lifelong friends, and now I actually have goals in life as well. Learning Japanese has always been something I really wanted to do, but never decided to do until that one day I decided to apply for it, rather than picking something that would lead me to a stable future.

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So Quagles lives in a country I or any Chinese would cut off her left arm to live in , and it's not good enough for him!?

While Norway is regarded as one of the best countries to live on earth, in the same way as many other countries it has its good sides, and its bad sides. While some will regard it as a great country, others will struggle to see what is so great about it. Some will love it, some will not. Thats just how the world works. There are many things I love about Norway and there are many things I will miss when leaving Norway. Still that isn't to say I wouldn't trade those things I love about my country for something else offered in another country.

As for the rest you have written, I guess I can understand your hatred to some degree. The locals needs job as well and I agree on that. Sure many native speakers of English are better suited than non natives for the job. With that said, this is a individualistic world where the majority only cares about themselves and their own well being. Can you really blame them? If teaching English in China is something I want to do, and its something that I'm able to do, I will do it. Cause that is what I want to do. If that is out of reach, ill go for another option that I can see myself enjoying, and that other option sure isn't teaching English in Norway.

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Quagles wrote:
... I don't want to get stuck as a teacher in Norway who isn't able to get out.......

you'd prefer getting stuck as a teacher in china who isn't able to get out?

few are able to make it past basic oral engrish. there is essentially no
career path. for most, it's teach a few years, and then move on to
the next adventure. your experiences in china won't necessarily make you
attractive to 'real' employers.

Ah speaking of one of the great advantages of being a Norwegian, here it is. I don't see myself ever getting in a situation where I'd worry about not getting out of China, or any other country even. I could just move back to Norway, get a job there. Its not the end of the world. Getting a decent job here that will allow you to pay your bills and still enjoy your life isn't difficult. You might have to be willing to relocate some more or less undesirable places though. Heck, you don't even need a job, the state will take care of you until you find one, thats how it works here. Its absolutely ridiculous if you ask me. Welcome to Norway!

Aaaand now its suddenly become bed time here so I have no choice but to cut it off here for now.

Okay Quagles, you seem way too entirely self-absorbed, but let's not go into that. You asked advice, and here's mine for you: go to visit or to live a while in a sunny country. Two of my family members have suffered severe depression and I think I might have done too, but I learned that a lot of depression (especially the Scandinavian Blues, to which owe the English word: berserk) are due to a sad lack of sunlight. After all, a day without sunshine is like like, well, a day without sunshine.

If you are so fascinated by the Far East, you could go to Vietnam, or Thailand perhaps. I've been to Okinawa, and it's just gorgeous there - and you already speak Japanese! As you are well aware, there are plenty of sunny climes elsewhere as well: Mexico, the Caribbean, the South Pacific... but why not just take a quick trip to Spain, Italy or the Greek Isles since you're in Europe? Then you can see if my theory pans out. You wouldn't even have to change your money.

Just go for it OP, personally I've always found I regret the things I never did more than the things I did that turned out to suck.

Sure, in a couple of years time, you may well be sat eating noodles for the 6th time that week, watching irritating TV you don't understand a word of and sweating your balls off in some third tier city apartment whilst wondering what the hell you're doing. But I think in many ways its better to take that shot than to always wonder if you could have done it, or how it would have turned out. A few years later you'll laugh about that time, but you'll never laugh at the decision to not go for it and choosing to spend your life in Norway.

Whilst this site has its many uses (and I've been a long time lurker here and it has helped me very much) I also find it can often be overly discouraging to newbs. Perhaps there are some people who are doing their bit to make the job market less saturated for themselves, I really don't know.

Clearly it's possible if some posters know of teachers from non-native countries out there, and if you can at least get an interview with the Head of an English department then they will notice your proficiency and you'll be a contender. Also if you get your first job and it's terrible, at least you'll have experience under your belt when applying for the next one.

Joined: 11 Apr 2012Posts: 573Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:45 am Post subject:

+ 1 to StringerBell's comments above.

It took me 10 years to finally pull the figurative trigger on "Teaching in Asia." It's been a hell of a ride the last three years in China, but I have not regretted my decision and I KNOW I would have regretted it if I had never tried!