It seems there may have been prior interactions between them. But the reports are all over the place as to what that interaction was. But the facts do seem very clear that events couldn’t have happened as she described. Also there is the fact that after the shooting the police searched his apartment yet did not search hers. The found a minor amount of weed in his apartment they say. I would say you would find such a thing in most peoples homes today, but why did they not search her apartment? Would they have found drugs? There is clearly an important piece of the puzzle missing. Hugs

Absolutely, Scottie. I’ve said it previously — you can blindfold me and take me into a dwelling. I will know if it’s mine or not based on the aroma of what was cooked. Air freshener, perfume, bath gel all add to the environment. In other words, it’s hard for me to believe that Guyger mistook Botham’s apartment for her own.

As you add to that furniture layout and even pets or layout of the furniture. Think of this. If you were blindfolded you could navigate your own home rather well, bumbling into things only where you would expect them to be close to. Now blind fold me and send me into your home, and I would have no clue as to which way to walk, what may or may not be in front of me. The whole point is I would move really slowly. Yet she did not, she moved in with authority? I can not wrap my head around the way she described things. Add to that others described yelling? A lot of questions. Hugs

Absolutely, Scottie. Even houses and apartments that have cookie-cutter layouts are individualized by the placement of furniture. You’re right on about that. There is also logic. Even an off-duty cop thinking a burglar is inside their apartment, should step out and call 911 rather than stepping in and opening fire.

Agreed. I use to be a long time ago trained as a sheriffs deputy. Back in those days of old we were taught to deescalate a situation. We had non lethal tools we carried that we were trained to use first. In my time the use of a fire arm was rare and taken really seriously. That is not to say we died more than today, we simply did not go to the extreme force action first. We were not trained that ever day on the job would be our last like they do today. My head of education once took a high level wanted perp by simply sitting down with him and letting him finish his beer. Really. If my training officer had tried to go in all authority and do it now face on the ground, it would have put people in danger. It is different today. The local law enforcement people seem totally on edge, ready at any second to go ballistic. There is no need for it. We wore vests, and the new vests are much better than I had. We had PR-24s, we had small key ring Kubotans , we had tasers. Heck our belts weighted more than 20 pounds, not counting gun and ammo. The point of this was we were taught that you did not pull your weapon ( gun ) unless you were prepared to use, and if you did intend to use it you intend to “use all force needed to stop the assailant”. That legal phrase meant if you pull your gun you are prepared to kill. Let me be clear: I was taught that you did not pull your gun from its holster and point it at anyone unless you intended to kill them.
Because we had so many nonlethal tools available we were taught our gun was the last resort lethal force. See we back then were trained that if we pulled our gun that meant everything had gone to shit, we were in taught to use a three hit fire pattern. One in the chest, one in the head, one more in the chest. So if you pulled your gun that meant you were prepared to kill. That is not at all what I see today. I see people running away shot. That would have been a huge bad shooting. I was taught you can not shoot some one for running way unless you think they will cause Imminent danger to some one else and that danger had to be “serious bodily harm or death”. Not oh he pissed me off or runs faster than I can. We were taught it was better to let a perp escape and get them later, than kill.

I guess my time has long passed and I feel old. The things I have seen happening in the last three years scare me. I was talking to a young black man online, and he told me his experiences with the police and I was so angry, as was he. I was angry because what the police were doing to him was a violation of everything I was taught, he was angry because it was so unfair and bigoted. He survived because he did not explode in anger. But I sure could understand if he did. It wouldn’t have happened in my days. But then again I am old. Hugs

Scottie,
I know what you say is true because my late husband was a former Chicago cop back in the late 60’s. There were fewer guns on the street back then. The promotion by the NRA and conceal carry has created the very conditions used by law enforcement to justify killing “suspects”. That is, they can always say that they thought the person had a gun.
Re:

“Let me be clear: I was taught that you did not pull your gun from its holster and point it at anyone unless you intended to kill them.”

EXACTLY! People see a gun pointed at them as a deadly threat, no matter if the person is wearing a uniform with a badge or not. Human reaction is the same way and it can emotionally wound people for life.

Let’s not talk about being old and the days gone by. I fit that description. LOL!

By the way Scottie, about the pot. Maybe they thought they could help Guyger’s defense if they could prove that Botham was doing something illegal. However, I think that ship had sailed because of her story.

OH yes, now they should be made to justify searching his home. Think on it. If you get into a car crash the police don’t go and search your home. He was the victim, yet they originally treated him as the attacker. It really ticked me off. You do these stories far more justice than I can. Hugs

Hey Scottie! The credit for the post goes to Leon Kwasi Chronicles. I reblogged it. 🙂 Am so happy that he did write about it.

Yeah, it upsets me that they would search his home for more than a crime scene. Speaking of which, based on a photo it appears that Guyer shot one bullet very high — almost to the ceiling.

Funny thing — before I came online this evening, I was watching the movie “Philadelphia” with Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington. That scene where the law firm wanted to dig up dirt on him makes me sick to the stomach. That is how hypocrisy and hatred works.

True. There was no call on Botham Jean to suspect him of committing a crime. Even if he was committing a victimless crime inside his own residence, being an off duty cop barging in and killing him because she thought it was her apartment still justifies a homicide charge. This case is messed up, yet it is simple and hopefully as more facts are determined, Amber will be convicted and sentenced.

When I first heard about it, I wondered why officials were treating it like an officer involved shooting. Guyger was off duty when she killed Botham. She did not observe a crime being committed, nor heard a call from other officers for help. She was a private individual and should have been immediately arrested.

Having known a few cops personally, even if one is off duty they can still act like a cop. In a way, they aren’t never a private citizen like you and I, even when off duty. Most people don’t know that but lawyers do and use it. That’s why they treated it as if it was a cop shooting a citizen.

That’s seems to be where the misunderstanding comes in, and where those in certain positions mislead the public. Law enforcement personnel are deputized, but they are deputized to keep the peace. If they see a crime being committed even when they are off duty, they can intervene to stop it or make an arrest. Some people recognize the authority given to law enforcement, but they fail to address that even with that authority, they are still limited to acting “reasonably”. In other words, the same standard of reasonableness applies to officers and private citizens.

It was not an officer involved shooting and should not have been treated that way.

“It was not an officer involved shooting and should not have been treated that way.”

I agree 100%. They could be held accountable as any other citizen. They couldn’t be allowed to say ‘I feared for my life’ and get away with murder. What’s happening now reminds me of the things I used to hear my grandparent talk about of what went on between cops and citizens in the 50 years ago and more.

I think it is a good thing that a cop finally pays for their crime but I hate to say this but had it been a man who shot him there would have been much more defense put up by the police department to clear his name. Eric Garner was choked to death in the streets and it was filmed but they still defended the police. When the family accepted the reward they pretty much considered the case closed. A Staten Island judge approved nearly $4 million in payments to the family of Eric Garner from a $5.9 million wrongful death settlement with the city.I know a criminal and civil case are vastly different but a lot of time they sort of take it as ‘everything is cool’ when a family accepts a reward.

Courts are quick to approve settlements because defense attorneys can then impress the jury to think of the deceased as property that has been paid for, so defendants should not be held to the consequences of criminal law.

Hi Ren!
Right now, she’s been charged with manslaughter and it doesn’t carry the death penalty. The State’s Attorney is suppose to take the case before a grand jury to see if they will up the charge. Without evidence of it being premeditated, the death penalty won’t apply. Being opposed to the death penalty, I prefer that she spends many years behind bars so that everyday she is reminded why she is there.

Ren,
I understand. About the only way the death penalty would help deter killing, is if the defendant was executed without notice. Let them leave this world without saying goodbye, the same as their victim.

You know, I once walked into the same apartment but one floor below me. I looked around, stunned and confused a bit – I mean, it wasn’t my furniture and nothing looked familiar – so do you know what I did? I didn’t shoot anyone. I looked at the number on the door, realized I was in the apartment below, shut the door and went home.