I picked Ukrainian Orthodox, but want to make it clear it is the UOCofUSA and not the KP.

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

Some fine fellows on this forum have helpfully identified my faith as "perpetual vacillator." Unfortunately that option wasn't available (why ever not? ), so I voted for agnostic, since that's what I am 90% of the time, though "agnostic who leans heavily towards theism" would be more accurate.

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"The bed is too short to stretch out on, the blanket too narrow to wrap around you." (Isa. 28:20)

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

It's the Greek for "Life Star" (zoe aster, ζωή ἀστήρ), the initial name of what Darth Vader would later re-label as the "Death Star" (thanatos aster, ˈθanatos ἀστήρ).

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Well I know its a simple poll but I have a dramatically long answer that I will try to condense.

PART 1In some ways I'm a very conservative Orthodox Christian. Some would say I'd go with the old believers. I'm devoutly against he EO church going into ecumenism, which gave me a personal schism with the church (in ways) a while back after a lifetime of being a dedicated Eastern Orthodox Christian. I love the church, love the teachings, but differ on some (what I would consider) "trivial issues". Issues such as addressing a priest as "father" (please no debates here, I have other threads with that), the iconostasis screen (like old believer Orthodox), and some of the other practices that I would consider unneeded or (forgive me) edging on fanaticism such as repetitive prayer on a 100x prayer rope, or continually crossing one self, or even sometimes icon veneration seems rather pointless. As wreckless and cruel as this may seem when I bring up these issues with my Orthodox brethren, it really isn't the "meat and potatoes" of Orthodoxy anyway. The EO Eucharist, is the central focus, the prayer is stunningly and amazingly spiritual and beautiful. I love the history, the fullness and richness of the Orthodox church. I do NOT call it wrong, I just have issues with a few of the practices.

If I would go to an Eastern Orthodox church today to bring myself back into communion with Orthodoxy, I would attend the "Holy Metropolis of the Genuine Greek Orthodox Church in America. I believe that branch would fit me the best, as it works against Ecumenism and does not have questionable origins (such as the Milan synod).

However, I would want to be very sure that I would be ready. The closest of these Churches is in Oklahoma. I have met Mr. & Mrs. Gilstrap (Fr. Gilstrap) before, and they are very kind and wonderful people. They have a small church there. I refuse to bring them my state of mind (whether I am right or wrong) when they are secure in their faith.

So I am technically Orthodox by baptism, and have not broken away, just have some disagreements on "trivial" things.

PART 2While I have been "away" from the faith I have learned some incredibly interesting things that don't disagree with Orthodoxy, though many Orthodox Christians do get bent out of shape on the mention. Well for one, I learned that God's name was spoken as "Yeshua" as he walked on this Earth. I found it amazing to learn this detail, as we basically always called him "Jesus". I learned that it was not that there is any conspiracy or error per se, but that "Jesus" came out of the Greek scriptures. (Yeshua is Aramaic the name of Christ in his native tongue). I found it completely amazing and taking the scriptures "to pray in his name" seriously. We always pray in the name of "Yeshua" in our home. We feel that the name of Yeshua, represents the entire trinity - The Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit.

I also learned many very cool and interesting facts of the traditions of the Early Christians from Messianic Jews. Very neat details I did not know before. The symbolism of the coin in the fish's mouth, or the wiping of the feet with the hair... It was amazingly powerful stuff. These messianic Jews were former Jews who converted to Christianity. They had many details of the early Jewish traditions since childhood. They could point out stuff in the New Testament and how it related to Judaism, or the symbolism of certain things in Judaism like no other people I have seen. Theologically I somewhat disagree with their worship, but in fulfilling richness of faith, understanding of traditions and symbols, and the understanding of Judaism, I have no problem conversing with messianic Jews.

Part 3Anabaptist (should be on your list). (Amish, Mennonites, Hutterites)They are not protestant.They are not Catholic.They are a group of people who wanted to root back to "Early Christian Tradition" based off the scriptures and early writings.

The Anabaptist influence has the next greatest impact on me to Orthodoxy. (Messianic Jews just have neat stuff to teach IMO)

If I had to pick from the 3 groups of Anabaptists to give examples of that have influence on me, it would be the Hutterites. They are an amazing bunch of people, and almost a shellshock to my Orthodox faith. Okay, so let me throw out some examples.

A) They worship Jesus Christ, as do the Eastern OrthodoxB) They believe in the Trinity, as do the Eastern OrthodoxC) Sunday worship as do the Eastern OrthodoxD) They practice the 7 sacraments. Chrismation, Unction, Ordination, Matrimony, Communion, Baptism, ConfessionE) They claim succession (through their RC origins from the apostles), the Orthodox claim succession as well. Each has recordsF) The Anabaptist women wear head coverings always, as they believe they are to pray without ceasing.G) Ordinations are picked locally, by the "casting of lots". Similar to how an EO bishop is picked, but done locally within the church. H) They practice foot washing.I) They sing A Cappella like the OrthodoxJ) Hutterites live as the apostles, all sharing from the same money bag in their community.

Anyway, when I saw this at first I was like.... I mean what do you say? It's like well.... You... are.... wrong... because.... "Eastern Orthodoxy doesn't represent you or your succession". That was the only argument. By scripture, early Christian writings & teachings, these folks really seem to have it together IMO. Their children (fruits) are incredibly well behaved more so than any other faiths children I've ever seen. Their divorce rate is also incredibly low (even compared with EO)...

My wife is an Anabaptist Mennonite, and dresses in modest clothing, does not plait her hair, and covers. As do my female children. They wear no jewelry or makeup (Roman women tradition that the Anabaptists preach against), wear no gold (scriptures), and yes, people often look at us funny in the store (they smile too).

So anyway, that is why my faith looks like a blender.

PART 4I'm Eastern OrthodoxLove the family life of the Anabaptist and how they hold to scriptural traditions (perhaps stronger than *most* of the Orthodox)And I love the teachings of Jewish traditions and insight of the Messianic Jews.

In a "PERFECT WORLD" for me (yes people I am DUCKING here and this is MY OPINION) - I just wish the Eastern Orthodox Church would get its freaking act together because its sooo close. The theology is THERE which is the most important. The depth and richness is there. The beauty is there. Real worship is there. God is there. I don't know what it is, or when it happened, but somewhere along the line some of the traditions of the Early Christians were dropped. People wear gold, short skirts (even border cleavage) to some of the churches. Many do not practice head coverings for women and clothing to not compete with each other. NOW think monastics - there ya go. They follow these things. Plain dress, modesty, non-competition from riches, gold, jewelry and riches avoided.... Why not the laymen like the Anabaptists is beyond me.

Unlike the Orthodox, the Anabaptist, where I can tell you from experience in both types of churches, the depth is not there or fulfillment is not entirely there. The richness is not there. But they totally smack the EO church in the face with family life, well behaved children, and following the "surface" areas of early Christians. They heavily emphasize to not be of this world, encourage to avoid television with its evil messages, time wasting video games (and evil), and warn heavily against evil music. The church takes this stance heavily, and watches over the flock this way. EO does too, but not to the level of the Anabaptists and it shows.

So I'd love it if a Orthodoxy would start heavily encouraging these early Christian practices of dress, non-resistance, non-competitiveness, modesty, and issue warning (yes from the bishops) of the evils of television, music, video games etc.

Right now I'm stuck in a crux of Orthodox by faith and Anabaptist by living (which impacts faith). So there ya have it! God Bless.

"Right now I'm stuck in a crux of Orthodox by faith and Anabaptist by living (which impacts faith). "

First, I really admire your explanation; honest and straight from the heart. As one who was confused by your stances in the past, I am glad to see the context. However, may I ask you a question that is somehow related to the OP: Is it possible to have a Amish/Mennonite living in an Orthodox setting? Granted not everybody would look or behave the same, but you and your family may start a modest living trend. Who knows what the Lord will do through you and yours?

"Right now I'm stuck in a crux of Orthodox by faith and Anabaptist by living (which impacts faith). "

First, I really admire your explanation; honest and straight from the heart. As one who was confused by your stances in the past, I am glad to see the context. However, may I ask you a question that is somehow related to the OP: Is it possible to have a Amish/Mennonite living in an Orthodox setting? Granted not everybody would look or behave the same, but you and your family may start a modest living trend. Who knows what the Lord will do through you and yours?

It's always possible. Of course it would be an "Orthodox Christian living in an Anabaptist setting/family life". A dream of mine would have the entire body of Anabaptists to come to Orthodoxy as that would be a tremendous impact on the Orthodox church parishoner's family life (in my opinion) in a fantastic way. Of course, this reality is almost an absolute zero percent shot of happening, as I believe that would have happened way back during inception.

Of course to make the long story longer (hah) when I first met the Anabaptists my arms were pretty folded together. Later I realized that they were not "lost" or were not like a typical protestant, but heavy and rich in faith. But it lacked fullness, completeness, and was not Orthodox. As I witnessed more and more of their family life, things began to dawn on me heavily. The moment of truth is when I watched an Anabaptist man, dunking pure beeswax candles just as I have seen monks do. (Not exactly tapers buck thick ones). Scraped the wooden frames of excess wax etc. The difference was that when he was done, he went inside with his family.

I was kind of stumped and was like.... "Wow - this *is* Orthodox monastic life sort of". But he wasn't a plainly dressed monk, or nun, he was a parent and family man. His wife was dressed plainly and modestly to be modest and not incite competition with her "sisters" or be "of this world". I was like... OK, so these are some of the exact reasons nuns and monks do this. Then I see their 8 children... I guess they were like monklets and nunlets. LOL

But it doesn't entirely make their theology right. In church, the sermons were great & biblical, their singing a cappella... But it was not entirely Eastern Orthodox. Close in more aspects than many people think, but lacked the fullness.

To answer your question directly, I am not sure if a typical Anabaptist would handle Orthodoxy well. Some of the ornateness would be a "turn off" for them. I do believe that icons would be a no-go for them. But the sacraments would probably fly, except for the baptism of infants. They even cite St. Constantine as a "believers baptism". I don't entirely agree with a believers ONLY baptism, but I don't condemn a believer's baptism either (of course neither does Orthodoxy through adult converts who believe and are baptized).

For me personally, I just basically do a modified reader's service at my home on Sunday. Bible study etc.

We then study books/lessons from Orthodox writers & saints along with some Anabaptist stories.

It would be immensely difficult for us to make it to Oklahoma (non ecumenism church). We have milk goats, baby goats, many chickens (some in incubator), several angora rabbits (wife & daughters spin fiber), and we are setting up several bee hives for wax, honey, propolis, & royal jelly. Constant outdoor work. Tonight when the hot sun goes down, I have to dig 4 fence posts 3 ft deep.

"Right now I'm stuck in a crux of Orthodox by faith and Anabaptist by living (which impacts faith). "

First, I really admire your explanation; honest and straight from the heart. As one who was confused by your stances in the past, I am glad to see the context. However, may I ask you a question that is somehow related to the OP: Is it possible to have a Amish/Mennonite living in an Orthodox setting? Granted not everybody would look or behave the same, but you and your family may start a modest living trend. Who knows what the Lord will do through you and yours?

It's always possible. Of course it would be an "Orthodox Christian living in an Anabaptist setting/family life". A dream of mine would have the entire body of Anabaptists to come to Orthodoxy as that would be a tremendous impact on the Orthodox church parishoner's family life (in my opinion) in a fantastic way. Of course, this reality is almost an absolute zero percent shot of happening, as I believe that would have happened way back during inception.

Of course to make the long story longer (hah) when I first met the Anabaptists my arms were pretty folded together. Later I realized that they were not "lost" or were not like a typical protestant, but heavy and rich in faith. But it lacked fullness, completeness, and was not Orthodox. As I witnessed more and more of their family life, things began to dawn on me heavily. The moment of truth is when I watched an Anabaptist man, dunking pure beeswax candles just as I have seen monks do. (Not exactly tapers buck thick ones). Scraped the wooden frames of excess wax etc. The difference was that when he was done, he went inside with his family.

I was kind of stumped and was like.... "Wow - this *is* Orthodox monastic life sort of". But he wasn't a plainly dressed monk, or nun, he was a parent and family man. His wife was dressed plainly and modestly to be modest and not incite competition with her "sisters" or be "of this world". I was like... OK, so these are some of the exact reasons nuns and monks do this. Then I see their 8 children... I guess they were like monklets and nunlets. LOL

But it doesn't entirely make their theology right. In church, the sermons were great & biblical, their singing a cappella... But it was not entirely Eastern Orthodox. Close in more aspects than many people think, but lacked the fullness.

To answer your question directly, I am not sure if a typical Anabaptist would handle Orthodoxy well. Some of the ornateness would be a "turn off" for them. I do believe that icons would be a no-go for them. But the sacraments would probably fly, except for the baptism of infants. They even cite St. Constantine as a "believers baptism". I don't entirely agree with a believers ONLY baptism, but I don't condemn a believer's baptism either (of course neither does Orthodoxy through adult converts who believe and are baptized).

For me personally, I just basically do a modified reader's service at my home on Sunday. Bible study etc.

We then study books/lessons from Orthodox writers & saints along with some Anabaptist stories.

It would be immensely difficult for us to make it to Oklahoma (non ecumenism church). We have milk goats, baby goats, many chickens (some in incubator), several angora rabbits (wife & daughters spin fiber), and we are setting up several bee hives for wax, honey, propolis, & royal jelly. Constant outdoor work. Tonight when the hot sun goes down, I have to dig 4 fence posts 3 ft deep.

We'll see how things work out brother, God's will be done.

You are an idealist and I respect that. Indeed, I admire very much your determination to live a Christian life. One of the things we are often faced with is to prioritize and make the best choices that we can. God bless.

It's always possible. Of course it would be an "Orthodox Christian living in an Anabaptist setting/family life". A dream of mine would have the entire body of Anabaptists to come to Orthodoxy as that would be a tremendous impact on the Orthodox church parishoner's family life (in my opinion) in a fantastic way. Of course, this reality is almost an absolute zero percent shot of happening, as I believe that would have happened way back during inception.

Interesting. I've never heard anyone say that with regard to Anabaptists before. I have heard the same basic idea expressed about Catholics (or maybe, on a rare occasion, about Anglicans).

Ex-Roman Catholic. The church I attend is Anglican (continuing) but I am not a member. I have a great affection for Orthodoxy but some problems with it as well. For that matter, I have some problems with Anglicanism, and I haven't finished sorting out which set of problems are more serious.

I still long for Rome, sometimes more, sometimes less. She is familiar and comforting. But I do not think I could go back. So right now, that is where I stand.

I am Orthodox Christian. No need to break it down further than that, but I am a member of a Greek (really Pan) Orthodox Church.

Wow, it took nearly forty replies before the correct one was struck for those of us who are Orthodox Christians. I self-identify as such, while I belong to a parish of Carpatho-Russian/Rusyn origin affiliated with the ACROD which today is pretty much 'non-ethnic' in its self image. We still cook Slavic foods, but that's about it.

I picked Protestant because the last church I attended was Protestant, but in reality I haven't attended church in almost a year. I am a Christian whose personal beliefs fall somewhere in between Lutheranism and Orthodoxy.

I chose "other" though I might have chosen "Greek" as well since Finland belongs to EP. If I travelled to or lived in the midst of jurisdictional mess I'd probably chose some jurisdiction of Russian variety since it's the most familiar tradition to me.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 11:23:50 PM by Alpo »

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But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.Leviticus 19:34