Saturday, January 05, 2013

How's that work, again?

So the German government has decided to centralize and nationalize its firearms registry, rather than leave it in the hands of the states. Not even the control freaks who were running the place in the '30s did that.

I'm sure we've been over this before, but maybe there have been new developments of which I'm unaware, so tell me something: How does gun registration do a single thing to curb gun violence?

If I write down my name and address and my gun's serial number on a 3x5" index card and hand it to you, how can you use that index card to keep me from shooting somebody, other than maybe waving it in my face in an attempt to throw off my aim?

Gun registration does nothing... can do nothing... to curb gun violence. All it can do is tell you who the gun belonged to at some point in in the past, should you happen to find it dropped at the murder scene, next to the cooling body.

At best it's a placebo to the perpetually fearful, while at worst (and historically it's nearly always been worst) it's a prelude to confiscation.

Gives them somebody to charge with "improper storage of a firearm" or something similarly stupid after it's stolen and used in a crime; thus making them feel good about them selves because they did something.

To be fair to the Germans (not that it really changes anything significantly), as I understand it they are centralizing the records to meet an EU requirement, and all other EU nations that also handle registration state-by-state will have to do the same thing fairly soon.

But, yeah, you'd think they would have learned their lesson on this particular issue about 70 years ago.

No, Tam, it's not for that purpose. The centralized (and computerized) national register of (legal!) guns is to enable the police to check beforehand (and outside the usual opening hours of German authorities) whether there is a (legal!) firearm in a house/flat when they are called to a case of domestic violence.

See! It does serve a purpose!

Because, you know, when the police know that there is a (legal!) gun present, they will behave differently and take the right precautions.

Of course that would only work if there were only the 7-10 million legal guns in Germany and not the 20-30 million illegal ones...

Yes it will curb gun violence, once you follow it to its next step of confiscation (I know, *they* always say they won't do that, but so far... ). Since the nannies equate gun violence as you defending yourself with a gun from little Timmy the choirboy when he breaks in at 0-dark-30, with you being shot with a gun stolen by little Timmy, it's a DoublePlusFeelGood win-win for them, living in their gated communities and working inside their private-armed-security guarded offices.

Hummm.....Lets see, why the push for world wide civilian disarmerment? Why disarm with such urgency? What have they done, Or are about to do, that makes them so afraid? Who is making this push to disarm with such speed? Do ANY of you still belive that congress, the presedent, or news phonys are listening to you, or care what you think? Or how you vote?--- This attack is not just in the US and Europe ,Its world wide and moveing FAST.

In elementary school, a large boy two years older would sit down at lunch, take my brownie, split it & give me back half and say, "Now we can share." Like government, the force was implied, the threat was real, and he smiled when he did it. Whether brownies, money, property or liberty, this is what politicians have in mind when they ask you to "compromise".

They will ask us to 'compromise' until we have nothing left. All the 'civilized' countries are doing the gun-control thingy. What could possibly go wrong?

The question has been posed, "Didn't Germany learn it's lesson from this?" Yes. They learned next time to not round up and exterminate the population. But rather round them up and deport them under trumped up charges. Charges that hide state sponsored racism, antisemitism, and Islamophobia.

I was just in the Der Vaterland in the middle of last year, and was the victim of some pretty heinous racism. I've been a Mexican in Texas for 27 years and never been subjected to the type of "enlightened" social treatment as I was in Germany.

Germany just elected a radical right wing party to power. In Northern Germany neo-Nazi and radical Christian groups are common. They recently proposed legislation that would effectively outlaw the practice of Islam and Judaism in Germany. Did they learn there lesson? It would appear the answer is a resounding no.

For those who haven't been to the old country recently, I'd suggest traveling there soon before the EU implodes and leaves its entrails all over a population that still hasn't figured out that in the 21st century you do not have to be a serf to the governor.

Heinous Racism in Germany usually involves Zyklon B. Care to elaborate on what happened to you?

Also, "radical right-wing" political parties in western Europe equate to Sen. Joe Leiberman in the US (his religion not withstanding). Nazism and Fascism is already illegal in Germany. Speech doesn't not have 1st Amendment protection in Germany ('cuz, duh!) so why expect religion to be protected?

Sorry, I have to call bullshit on what RevolverBob wrote.1) It's DAS Vater-/Mutterland.2) The Federal German government currently consists of the Christian Democrats (CDU) and the Free Democrats (FDP). While economically on the right side, both are far less authoritarian than either the American Democrats or Republicans. The current combination CDU+FDP was elected in 2009, not recently.Which "radical right wing party" do you mean?3) That "recently proposed legislation that would effectively outlaw the practice of Islam and Judaism" was a ruling by one of the higher courts that the religious freedom of parents doesn't trump a child's right to physical integrity, whether parents should have the right to have their underage son's penis circumsized.

Actually the thing to complain about is not that they want to build up a centralized, computerized national _registry_ of legal guns. They have that information already. The authorities know (or should know, if they are able to keep a simple file) which guns - complete with make, model, caliber and S/N - I purchased when from whom and on which of the licenses they issued me.

The things to complain about are:1) the money they will waste to convert the paper based de-centralized registry to a central computer-based one and2) that once all that information is centralized, the data can be stolen from a centralized source* and3) the false sense of security the police will (not) enjoy when their check for legal guns comes up negative.**

----------------*) Not too unlikely considering the recent cases where thieves/insiders offered CDs with data regarding German tax evaders in Switzerland, other cases where CDs containing personalized data were lost, and the cases in which registries of online game customers were hacked.**) Considering the 20-30 million illegal guns in Germany, a police officer should _always_ assume the presence of guns on the other side, not only when he knows that there are legal guns!

No, that is not the purpose of the new legislation. It will not cause me any more work. I ALREADY have to fill in a form stating seller, make, type, caliber and S/N of gun purchased, date of purchase, number and issueing authority of license used.

AND the same has to be done by the seller, so the authorities get the basically same info from the seller and buyer.

Most of our legally owned firearms are indeed already "confiscation-ready" here in Europe. I guess that's what T.Stahl means. As a matter of confiscation this won't do much. We're essentially already fucked.

There are nonetheless tons of firearms that are unregistered:1/ firearms bought before registration was mandatory and people (wisely) chose not to register2/ surplus / leftovers from WWII3/ modern firearms imported through "alternate channels"

Anyway, Western Europe hasn't learnt any lesson from the 20th century. Those defects ("the government knows best what to do") are hard-grained into human psyche.

There's no real respect for the individual. It all goes downhill from there.

I guess Eastern Europeans might have a much better understanding of things as they've experienced the hard way the lasted iteration of "government knows best: gulag edition".

Your argument is unassailable but I would re-phrase it for more emotional impact. We have all of the facts on our side but we need to simplify them for dumbed down America."Obama wants to register law abiding Americans like child molesters."I'm sure that we can come up with a few lines that will communicate how repulsive our political enemies are and repeat them until they penetrate the American conciousnes.

"The things to complain about are:1) the money they will waste to convert the paper based de-centralized registry to a central computer-based one and2) that once all that information is centralized, the data can be stolen from a centralized source* and3) the false sense of security the police will (not) enjoy when their check for legal guns comes up negative."

That your only concerns as to what Tam calls in her last sentence a "...prelude to confiscation." pertaining to the actions of a government and society still haunted by the dark vestiges of its past was my point. It could be that you are too close to see the potential; we on this side of the pond see it clearly as portent of your future...and our own.

Nazi.gov/US...could it happen? It could if our concerns revolve around economic ineptitude and careless storage of data instead of the threat of government control of our ability to protect ourselves from them; this ain't Facebook we're talking about here.

James,How often do I have to repeat that the German authorities ALREADY know which guns I own?If they decided to confiscate all guns of a certain category, they could ALREADY do it.They already did that when they banned "non-single-shot handguns, built after Jan 1st 1070 in centerfire calibers below 6.3mm that are not propelled by the primer only."

I hardly see how that is your call, Mr. Stahl, or how bickering among ourselves helps anyone. Do you really think that the situation in Germany has no parallel to our current situation here in the USA? I welcome ideas from freedom loving individuals anywhere in the world. I hope that mine can be of some help to you.Good luck and keep fighting the good fight.

"The things to complain about are:1) the money they will waste to convert the paper based de-centralized registry to a central computer-based one and2) that once all that information is centralized, the data can be stolen from a centralized source* and3) the false sense of security the police will (not) enjoy when their check for legal guns comes up negative."

Exactly the concerns raised in Canada when ours started. They didn't listen, because, like everyone knows, the only purpose of a registry is to use it to make a confiscation list.

Ask any Canadian who USED to own a Frianci SPAS 12, MP-5 or several other firearms that were declared "Prohibited" last time around and confiscated without compensation.

I could go on for hours about the screwup that is our system up here in Canada.

I'm not for registration. Just like you I think it's none of the governments *beep*ing business to know if or what guns I own as long as I don't *beep* up and harm others.

What I'm complaining about or what I try to correct is some people's impression or opinion that SUDDENLY the German government decided to register all legal guns. They did that four decades ago. And provided a the German civil servants know how to keep a file (which I sometimes doubt but that's another story), all guns in legal possession are already registered. The new register will not register any additional guns.

Do you think that centralizing that database makes the already possible (!) confiscation easier?

Well, the old, de-centralized gun register has already proved that it works just fine for confiscating guns, no central register necessary.

I see the most immediate danger for the police officers that will be called to a house for whatever reason, check that new and handy central register that's accessible on weekends beforehand for legal guns, and when that check comes up negative assume that there are no guns present at all.And then, in a false sense of security, are caught unprepared.