A Worldwide Message
The End of False Religion Is Near!
▪ What is false religion?
▪ How will it end?
▪ How will you be affected?
What Is False Religion?
Are you distressed about crimes committed in the name of religion? Do the warfare, terrorism, and corruption perpetrated by those who claim to serve God offend your sense of justice? Why does religion seem to be at the root of so many problems?
The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?
False Religion*.*.*.
▪ MEDDLES IN WAR AND POLITICS: “Across Asia and beyond,” says the journal Asiaweek, “power-hungry leaders are cynically manipulating people’s religious sentiments for their own needs.” As a result, the journal warns: “The world threatens to sink into madness.” A prominent religious leader in the United States declared: “You’ve got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops.” His solution? “Blow them all away in the name of the Lord.” By contrast, the Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1*John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matthew 5:44) How many religions can you think of whose members engage in war?
▪ SPREADS FALSE DOCTRINE: Most religions teach that the soul or spirit is some invisible part of a human that survives the death of the physical body. By means of this teaching, many of these religions exploit their members, charging money to pray for departed souls. However, the Bible teaches a different doctrine. “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Jesus taught that the dead will be resurrected—an unnecessary action if humans had an immortal soul. (John 11:11-25) Does your religion teach that the soul does not die?
▪ TOLERATES IMMORAL SEX: In Western lands, church groups ordain gay and lesbian members of the clergy and urge governments to recognize same-sex marriages. Even churches that condemn immorality have tolerated religious leaders who have sexually abused children. What, though, does the Bible teach? It plainly states: “Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men .*.*. will inherit God’s kingdom.” (1*Corinthians 6:9,*10) Do you know of religions that condone immoral sex?
What does the future hold for religions that produce rotten fruit? Jesus warned: “Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matthew 7:19) Yes, false religion will be chopped down and destroyed! But how and when will this happen? A prophetic vision recorded in the Bible book of Revelation, chapters*17 and 18, provides the answer.
How Will False Religion End?
Picture the scene. A harlot is sitting on the back of a fearsome beast. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:1-4) Whom does the harlot represent? She exerts influence “over the kings of the earth.” She dresses in purple, uses incense, and is exceedingly wealthy. In addition, by means of her spiritistic practice, ‘all the nations are misled.’ (Revelation 17:18; 18:12, 13,*23) The Bible helps us to see that this harlot is a worldwide religious entity. She depicts, not any one religion, but all religions that produce rotten fruit.
The beast that the harlot rides pictures the world’s political powers. (Revelation 17:10-13) False religion straddles the back of this political beast, attempting to influence its decisions and to control its direction.
Soon, though, an amazing event will take place. “The ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) In a sudden, shocking move, the world’s political powers will turn on false religion and completely destroy her! What will prompt this action? The Bible book of Revelation answers: “God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought.” (Revelation 17:17) Yes, God will call false religion to account for all the despicable acts she has committed in his name. In a stroke of perfect justice, he will use her political paramours as his instrument of execution.
What must you do if you do not want to share the fate of false religion? “Get out of her, my people,” urges God’s messenger. (Revelation 18:4) Indeed, now is the time to flee from false religion! But to where can you flee? Not into atheism, since its future is also bleak. (2*Thessalonians 1:6-9) The only haven is within true religion. How can you identify true religion?
How to Identify True Religion
What good fruit should true religion produce?—Matthew 7:17.
True Religion*.*.*.
▪ PRACTICES LOVE: True worshippers are “no part of the world,” are not divided by race or culture, and display ‘love among themselves.’ (John 13:35; 17:16; Acts 10:34,*35) Rather than killing one another, they are willing to die for one another.—1*John 3:16.
▪ TRUSTS GOD’S WORD: Instead of teaching “tradition” and “commands of men as doctrines,” true religion bases its doctrine on God’s Word, the Bible. (Matthew 15:6-9) Why? Because “all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight.”—2*Timothy 3:16.
▪ STRENGTHENS FAMILIES AND UPHOLDS HIGH MORAL STANDARDS: True religion trains husbands to ‘love their wives as their own bodies,’ helps wives to develop ‘deep respect for their husbands,’ and teaches children to ‘be obedient to their parents.’ (Ephesians 5:28, 33; 6:1) In addition, those entrusted with positions of authority must have exemplary morals.—1*Timothy 3:1-10.
Does any religion meet these standards? The book Holocaust Politics, published in 2001, says: “If more people practiced versions of what the Jehovah’s Witnesses preach and practice, the Holocaust could have been prevented and genocide would scourge the world no more.”
Indeed, in 235 lands, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not just preach the Bible’s moral standards—they live by them. We urge you to ask Jehovah’s Witnesses to help you learn what God requires of you so that you can worship him acceptably. Now is the time to act. Do not delay. The end of false religion is near!—Zephaniah 2:2,*3.

[I have edited out the Jehovah's Witness contact information in this post. While discussing religion is fine, proselytizing is not. Ginger.]

Rockntractor

05-04-2011, 01:30 PM

I was afraid of this, tell Carl thank you!:eek:

(heads for bunker):cool:

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 01:34 PM

Im just sharing something I feel is relevant to the problem with organized religion.

megimoo

05-04-2011, 01:36 PM

I was afraid of this, tell Carl thank you!:eek:

(heads for bunker):cool:Grace,Queen of the Cocamamies is with us again !:eek:

FlaGator

05-04-2011, 01:37 PM

Im just sharing something I feel is relevant to the problem with organized religion.

That's a mighty broad brush you're painting with.

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 01:46 PM

THE great dragon has been cast down to the earth! Our study of Revelation makes it clear that never again will the Serpent or his demon followers be allowed back into heaven. But we are not yet finished with “the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” The account next identifies in greater detail the means used by Satan to fight against ‘the woman and her seed.’ (Revelation 12:9,*17) John says of that serpentine dragon: “And it stood still upon the sand of the sea.” (Revelation 13:1a) So let us pause to examine the dragon’s means of operation.
2 No longer are the holy heavens afflicted by the presence of Satan and his demons. Those wicked spirits have been ousted from heaven and confined to the vicinity of the earth. This no doubt accounts for the tremendous growth of spiritistic practices in modern times. The wily Serpent still maintains a corrupt spirit organization. But does he also use a visible organization in order to mislead mankind? John tells us: “And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority.”—Revelation 13:1b,*2.
3 What is this freakish beast? The Bible itself gives the answer. Before the fall of Babylon in 539*B.C.E., the Jewish prophet Daniel saw visions involving ferocious beasts. At Daniel 7:2-8 he describes four beasts coming out of the sea, the first resembling a lion, the second a bear, the third a leopard, and “see there! a fourth beast, fearsome and terrible and unusually strong .*.*. and it had ten horns.” This is remarkably similar to the wild beast seen by John about the year 96*C.E. That beast also has the characteristics of a lion, a bear, and a leopard, and it has ten horns. What is the identity of the huge beasts seen by Daniel? He informs us: “These huge beasts .*.*. are four kings that will stand up from the earth.” (Daniel 7:17) Yes, those beasts represent “kings,” or political powers of the earth.
4 In another vision, Daniel sees a two-horned ram that is struck down by a goat with a great horn. The angel Gabriel explains to him what it means: “The ram .*.*. stands for the kings of Media and Persia. And the hairy he-goat stands for the king of Greece.” Gabriel goes on to prophesy that the great horn of the he-goat would be broken and be succeeded by four horns. This actually happened more than 200 years later when Alexander the Great died and his kingdom was split into four kingdoms ruled over by four of his generals.—Daniel 8:3-8, 20-25.
5 It is clear, therefore, that the Author of the inspired Bible regards the political powers of the earth as beasts. What kind of beasts? One commentator calls the wild beast of Revelation 13:1, 2 a “brute,” and adds: “We accept all the connotations that θηρίον [the‧ri′on, the Greek word for “beast”] conveys, such as that of a cruel, destructive, frightful, ravenous, etc., monster.” How well that describes the bloodstained political system by which Satan has dominated mankind! The seven heads of this wild beast stand for six major world powers featured in Bible history up to John’s day—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome—and a seventh world power prophesied to appear later.—Compare Revelation 17:9,*10.
6 True, there have been other world powers in history besides the seven—just as the wild beast John saw was made up of a body as well as of seven heads and ten horns. But the seven heads represent the seven major powers that have, each in its turn, taken the lead in oppressing God’s people. In 33*C.E., while Rome was ascendant, Satan used that head of the wild beast to kill the Son of God. At that time, God abandoned the faithless Jewish system of things and later, in 70*C.E., allowed Rome to execute his judgment on that nation. Happily, the true Israel of God, the congregation of anointed Christians, had been forewarned, and those in Jerusalem and Judaea had fled to safety beyond the Jordan River.—Matthew 24:15, 16; Galatians 6:16.
7 By the end of the first century C.E., however, many in this early congregation had fallen away from the truth, and the true Christian wheat, “the sons of the kingdom,” had been largely choked out by weeds, “the sons of the wicked one.” But when the conclusion of the system of things arrived, anointed Christians again appeared as an organized group. During the Lord’s day, the righteous ones were due to “shine as brightly as the sun.” Hence, the Christian congregation was organized for work. (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) By then, the Roman Empire was no more. The huge British Empire, along with the powerful United States of America, held the center of the world stage. This dual world power proved to be the seventh head of the wild beast.

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 01:48 PM

The END is near so is paradise and eternal life for all those who want Jesus Christ as the new earth's future King

Gingersnap

05-04-2011, 01:57 PM

The END is near so is paradise and eternal life for all those who want Jesus Christ as the new earth's future King

Fair enough, this is the End of the World Forum. It might be instructive to focus on what signs you see as being indicative that the End is imminent.

Rebel Yell

05-04-2011, 02:00 PM

Fair enough, this is the End of the World Forum. It might be instructive to focus on what signs you see as being indicative that the End is imminent.

I heard a preacher about a year ago say, "We are closer to the end today than we've ever been." I leaned over to my wife and said, "But not as close as we will be tomorrow."

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 02:01 PM

This growing hatred towards religion is one sign, talks of peace and security (1 Thessalonians 5:3) , great earthquakes such as the tsunami in Japan, the huge tornadoes and flooding down in the south and midwest. Put two and two together. The love of the greater number will cool off. Jesus own words. Hamas meeting with Fatah in Egypt to talk about sharing power in the Palestinian territories. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Kingdom of God is NEAR (Luke 21:31) By the way gas will continue going up and the ECONOMY will NEVER get better because God's judgements is also on the merchants of the earth. They will throw their gold and silver into the streets (Ezekiel 7:19) as the Bible also says about the END. This means the lives of some 7 billion people.. (Zephaniah 1:18)

FlaGator

05-04-2011, 02:12 PM

You're not a May 21ster are you?

Zathras

05-04-2011, 02:23 PM

The END is near so is paradise and eternal life for all those who want Jesus Christ as the new earth's future King

So....what are you going to do when "THE END" doesn't happen before your end does???

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 02:27 PM

Too many things going on in the news to deny that the end is near

Zathras

05-04-2011, 02:41 PM

Too many things going on in the news to deny that the end is near

Yeah yeah yeah, you keep thinking that. Meanwhile I'll go on living my life the same way and enjoying it while you gloom and doom types live in fear for the end that is not coming anytime soon.

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 02:46 PM

It is not all gloom and doom. Eternal life in a perfect world with Jesus as King and no suffering. Do you want to take the chance that you are wrong and give up eternal life.

Zathras

05-04-2011, 02:51 PM

It is not all gloom and doom. Eternal life in a perfect world with Jesus as King and no suffering. Do you want to take the chance that you are wrong and give up eternal life.

Eternal life is overrated and if it would mean living with you I want nothing to do with it...can't stand "holier than thou" idiots, which you are in that category.

I'm gonna laugh when I get to the end of my life, many years from now, at you doom and gloomers that waited for an end that never came.

PoliCon

05-04-2011, 02:53 PM

Live. Love. Give. Trust God.

PoliCon

05-04-2011, 02:53 PM

You're not a May 21ster are you?

sounds like it. :rolleyes:

Zathras

05-04-2011, 02:58 PM

sounds like it. :rolleyes:

May 21st eh? If he is part of that "Judgement Day" thing I keep seeing on bill boards around here it wouldn't surprise me.

PoliCon

05-04-2011, 03:03 PM

May 21st eh? If he is part of that "Judgement Day" thing I keep seeing on bill boards around here it wouldn't surprise me.

sure sounds like it.

Zathras

05-04-2011, 03:11 PM

sure sounds like it.

Well, I won't be changing any plans to go see Cars 2, X-men First Class or The Green Lantern because of this. In fact I'll go have a nice dinner and have a good laugh at these poeple when the world hasn't ended the day before.

Calypso Jones

05-04-2011, 03:18 PM

I've got a couple quesitons just out of curiosity?

Liberal....Is Christ Divine? Is He the Son of God? Did He descend from heaven to live His Life on Earth? Did He die on the Cross for the Sins of the World?

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 03:34 PM

So....what are you going to do when "THE END" doesn't happen before your end does???

I've got a couple quesitons just out of curiosity?

Liberal....Is Christ Divine? Is He the Son of God? Did He descend from heaven to live His Life on Earth? Did He die on the Cross for the Sins of the World?

Yes Christ is divine. He lived in heaven before he came to the earth, born of the virgin Mary. I believe he is the Son of God. His shed blood paved the way for eternal life for those believers who sincerely follow his teachings to the best of their ability as they can.

FlaGator

05-04-2011, 03:39 PM

sounds like it. :rolleyes:

There is something wrong with those who sit around dwelling on the return of Christ and the tribulation. They are so fixated on such a small part of the Message and purpose of Christ that the miss the beauty of the Gospel and the love that God showed us by becoming one of us and dying for us. The end will come when God is good and ready and not a moment sooner. Until then I will do as Christ asked and share the good news with all who want to hear it.

FlaGator

05-04-2011, 03:41 PM

Yes Christ is divine. He lived in heaven before he came to the earth, born of the virgin Mary. I believe he is the Son of God. His shed blood paved the way for eternal life for those believers who sincerely follow his teachings to the best of their ability as they can.

If you stop right there then you have it in toto.

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 04:02 PM

The Good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come. Jesus preached the Kingdom of God. That was all Jesus talked about. Also Matthew 28:19,20 about making disciples of people of all the nations. teaching them to observe all the things I commanded you.

Novaheart

05-04-2011, 04:23 PM

Grace,Queen of the Cocamamies is with us again !:eek:

Reads like David ben Israel (herbert armstrong devotee) to me.

The real Jews are the British people!

Zathras

05-04-2011, 04:41 PM

The Good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come. Jesus preached the Kingdom of God. That was all Jesus talked about. Also Matthew 28:19,20 about making disciples of people of all the nations. teaching them to observe all the things I commanded you.

Question...how do you know that your version of Christianity isn't the false religion you're railing against?

wilbur

05-04-2011, 04:49 PM

And people say Scientologitsts are crazy... guys like this one prove Christians got there first!

Zathras

05-04-2011, 06:28 PM

Yes Christ is divine. He lived in heaven before he came to the earth, born of the virgin Mary. I believe he is the Son of God. His shed blood paved the way for eternal life for those believers who sincerely follow his teachings to the best of their ability as they can.

Heh heh, no answer for my question eh? No surprise there because you can't answer it because there is nothing you can do.

FlaGator

05-04-2011, 06:35 PM

And people say Scientologitsts are crazy... guys like this one prove Christians got there first!

Sooner or later the blind had to chime in.

Odd how it is the crazy ones who see everyone else as crazy.

tetrispro

05-04-2011, 06:37 PM

Heh heh, no answer for my question eh? No surprise there because you can't answer it because there is nothing you can do.

Because I have been a member of other religious groups as well. I grew up as a Roman Catholic. I also went to Protestant and Seventh Day Adventist. The Book of Mormon as well. I know it is the truth because the truth will set you free as Jesus said.

fettpett

05-04-2011, 07:00 PM

Because I have been a member of other religious groups as well. I grew up as a Roman Catholic. I also went to Protestant and Seventh Day Adventist. The Book of Mormon as well. I know it is the truth because the truth will set you free as Jesus said.

so what is your view on the Sabbath?

Zathras

05-04-2011, 08:05 PM

Because I have been a member of other religious groups as well. I grew up as a Roman Catholic. I also went to Protestant and Seventh Day Adventist. The Book of Mormon as well. I know it is the truth because the truth will set you free as Jesus said.

Yet you chain yourself to the mistaken belief that the world is coming to an end. Doesn't sound like you're very free to me.

Articulate_Ape

05-04-2011, 08:45 PM

Because I have been a member of other religious groups as well. I grew up as a Roman Catholic. I also went to Protestant and Seventh Day Adventist. The Book of Mormon as well. I know it is the truth because the truth will set you free as Jesus said.

No offense, but do you have any idea how many people have believed what you believe with your same certainty only to find out they were mistaken in their precision?

Rockntractor

05-04-2011, 08:55 PM

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?:eek::confused:

Zathras

05-04-2011, 09:14 PM

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?:eek::confused:

NO!!!! BACK IN YOUR HOLE!!!!!

fettpett

05-04-2011, 09:44 PM

Yet you chain yourself to the mistaken belief that the world is coming to an end. Doesn't sound like you're very free to me.

thats the thing, while Christ told us what to watch for he also said not to dwell on it and make that the focus as it will turn people off. hell if you look at Mathew it isn't till near the time of his death that he even really starts talking about end time events as he was laying the ground work for his ministry and giving an example as to how to bring people to him with his message.

Rockntractor

05-04-2011, 09:49 PM

NO!!!! BACK IN YOUR HOLE!!!!!

Ooohkaaaaay!:(

Zathras

05-04-2011, 10:44 PM

thats the thing, while Christ told us what to watch for he also said not to dwell on it and make that the focus as it will turn people off. hell if you look at Mathew it isn't till near the time of his death that he even really starts talking about end time events as he was laying the ground work for his ministry and giving an example as to how to bring people to him with his message.

Seems like the OP missed that part.

MrsSmith

05-05-2011, 12:12 AM

liberatecarl, could you explain a few things to me? Like how Jesus' resurrection demonstrates the way we will be resurrected someday?

And how God is three persons while remaining only One?

And how the Holy Spirit can enter humans and give them the ability to understand that which seems foolish to the worldly?

thanks

megimoo

05-05-2011, 12:19 AM

Reads like David ben Israel (herbert armstrong devotee) to me.

The real Jews are the British people!Again, Herbert W Armstrong !Lost tribes of Israel !

Rockntractor

05-05-2011, 12:47 AM

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?:eek::confused:

fettpett

05-05-2011, 08:45 AM

Seems like the OP missed that part.

yeah, a lot of people that get fixated on the end time stuff do, think of it like riding a bike, one doesn't jump in and start riding mountain bike trails or 100 mile marathons right off the bat, got to work up to that point, the same is with Christ message and it's how he taught.

fettpett

05-05-2011, 08:46 AM

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?:eek::confused:

in your hole swine!!:mad:

:D

Rebel Yell

05-05-2011, 10:39 AM

liberatecarl, could you explain a few things to me? Like how Jesus' resurrection demonstrates the way we will be resurrected someday?

And how God is three persons while remaining only One?

And how the Holy Spirit can enter humans and give them the ability to understand that which seems foolish to the worldly?

thanks

You forgot my favorite. Was Jesus God in the flesh, or was he the Son of God?

Not even the angels in heaven know when the Revelation will unfold, but people think they know.

These are the same bunch that think everyone is the anti christ. My answer to the Obama is the anti christ emails were simple. When the anti christ comes, there won't be a thousand emails making sure you know.

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 03:09 AM

liberatecarl, could you explain a few things to me? Like how Jesus' resurrection demonstrates the way we will be resurrected someday?

And how God is three persons while remaining only One?

And how the Holy Spirit can enter humans and give them the ability to understand that which seems foolish to the worldly?

thanks

Jesus, his Father, and the Holy spirit are all one in purpose NOT one substance. Google the word homoousios

God has an endless memory. He can play us back and put our life force into a new body just as easily as we can play back a tape or dvd by putting it into another vcr or dvd player by reanimating us with a new body.

The holy dpirit works through God's anointed, God reveals things through certain people who relay the message to others.

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 03:13 AM

Jesus, his Father, and the Holy spirit are all one in purpose NOT one substance. Google the word homoousios

God has an endless memory. He can play us back and put our life force into a new body just as easily as we can play back a tape or dvd by putting it into another vcr or dvd player by reanimating us with a new body.

The holy dpirit works through God's anointed, God reveals things through certain people who relay the message to others.

Does God use Google?:confused:

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 03:18 AM

Does God use Google?:confused:

GOD IS all knowing, he doesnt need to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoousian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

A Christian movement reputed to practice a form of Arianism (or "Semi-Arianism"[citation needed]) are Jehovah's Witnesses.[22] They consider Jesus Christ to be divine and unlike other created beings, but not equal to the one God. And although they are not Trinitarians or Athanasians, they disagree with Arius’ views in many respects. Arius, for example, denied that the Son could really know the Father[citation needed] while Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Son ‘fully knows’ the Father, and also that the Son, as 'the Word who became flesh', is “the one that has explained him.”[23] (Mt 11:27; Joh 1:14, 18) They believe it is vital to come to know God. And although Arius did not accept Athanasius’ theory that the Holy Spirit was co-equal and of the same substance as the Father, he did consider the spirit to be a person or a high angel. Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Holy Spirit is not an actual person but rather is God’s divine breath, God's power in action.[24]

Another group that may be considered Arian is the Church of God (7th day) - Salem Conference.

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 03:29 AM

GOD IS all knowing, he doesnt need to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoousian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousia

Well then why should I, can't I just ask God? Why do you want me to seek the wisdom of God through a liberal search engine?

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 03:32 AM

How is Carl doing? Is he still in the slammer?:confused:

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 03:45 AM

GOD IS all knowing, he doesnt need to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoousian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

A Christian movement reputed to practice a form of Arianism (or "Semi-Arianism"[citation needed]) are Jehovah's Witnesses.[22] They consider Jesus Christ to be divine and unlike other created beings, but not equal to the one God. And although they are not Trinitarians or Athanasians, they disagree with Arius’ views in many respects. Arius, for example, denied that the Son could really know the Father[citation needed] while Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Son ‘fully knows’ the Father, and also that the Son, as 'the Word who became flesh', is “the one that has explained him.”[23] (Mt 11:27; Joh 1:14, 18) They believe it is vital to come to know God. And although Arius did not accept Athanasius’ theory that the Holy Spirit was co-equal and of the same substance as the Father, he did consider the spirit to be a person or a high angel. Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Holy Spirit is not an actual person but rather is God’s divine breath, God's power in action.[24]

Another group that may be considered Arian is the Church of God (7th day) - Salem Conference.

Arians were air heads. So what about ole Carl, hows his hammer hangin?:confused:

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 03:46 AM

Witness publications teach that God's kingdom is a literal government in heaven, ruled by Jesus Christ and 144,000 Christians drawn from the earth.[178] The kingdom is viewed as the means by which God will accomplish his original purpose for the earth,[179][180] transforming earth into a paradise without sickness or death.[181] It is said to have been the focal point of Jesus' ministry on earth[182] and established in heaven in 1914.[183] They believe 1914 marks the restoration of God's rule over earth after being halted for 2520 years since 607 BC, the date they uniquely assign to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.[184]
[edit] Eschatology
Main article: Eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses

A central teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is that the current world era, or "system of things", entered the "last days" [185] in 1914[186] and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who worship God acceptably. They consider all other present-day religions to be false, identifying them with "Babylon the Great", or the "harlot", of Revelation 17,[187] and believe that they will soon be destroyed by the United Nations. This development will mark the beginning of the great tribulation.[188] Satan will subsequently attack Jehovah's Witnesses, an action that will prompt God to begin the war of Armageddon, during which all forms of government and all people not counted as Christ's "sheep", or true followers, will be destroyed.[189] After Armageddon, God will extend his heavenly kingdom to include earth,[190][191] which will be transformed into a paradise similar to the garden of Eden.[192] After Armageddon, most of those who had died prior to God's intervention will gradually be resurrected during "judgment day" [193] lasting for a thousand years.[194] This judgment will be based on their actions after resurrection, not on past deeds.[195] At the end of the thousand years, a final test will take place when Satan is released to mislead perfect mankind.[196] The end result will be a fully tested, glorified human race.[197] Christ will then hand all authority back to God.[198]

Watch Tower Society publications teach that Jesus Christ began to rule in heaven as king of God's Kingdom in October 1914,[199] and that Satan was subsequently ousted from heaven to the earth, resulting in "woe" to mankind.[200] They believe that Jesus rules invisibly, perceived only as a series of "signs". They base this belief on a rendering of the Greek word parousia—usually translated as "coming" when referring to Christ—as "presence". They believe Jesus' presence refers to a period of unknown duration rather than a moment of arrival.[201]

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 03:55 AM

Witness publications teach that God's kingdom is a literal government in heaven, ruled by Jesus Christ and 144,000 Christians drawn from the earth.[178] The kingdom is viewed as the means by which God will accomplish his original purpose for the earth,[179][180] transforming earth into a paradise without sickness or death.[181] It is said to have been the focal point of Jesus' ministry on earth[182] and established in heaven in 1914.[183] They believe 1914 marks the restoration of God's rule over earth after being halted for 2520 years since 607 BC, the date they uniquely assign to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.[184]
[edit] Eschatology
Main article: Eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses

A central teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is that the current world era, or "system of things", entered the "last days" [185] in 1914[186] and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who worship God acceptably. They consider all other present-day religions to be false, identifying them with "Babylon the Great", or the "harlot", of Revelation 17,[187] and believe that they will soon be destroyed by the United Nations. This development will mark the beginning of the great tribulation.[188] Satan will subsequently attack Jehovah's Witnesses, an action that will prompt God to begin the war of Armageddon, during which all forms of government and all people not counted as Christ's "sheep", or true followers, will be destroyed.[189] After Armageddon, God will extend his heavenly kingdom to include earth,[190][191] which will be transformed into a paradise similar to the garden of Eden.[192] After Armageddon, most of those who had died prior to God's intervention will gradually be resurrected during "judgment day" [193] lasting for a thousand years.[194] This judgment will be based on their actions after resurrection, not on past deeds.[195] At the end of the thousand years, a final test will take place when Satan is released to mislead perfect mankind.[196] The end result will be a fully tested, glorified human race.[197] Christ will then hand all authority back to God.[198]

Watch Tower Society publications teach that Jesus Christ began to rule in heaven as king of God's Kingdom in October 1914,[199] and that Satan was subsequently ousted from heaven to the earth, resulting in "woe" to mankind.[200] They believe that Jesus rules invisibly, perceived only as a series of "signs". They base this belief on a rendering of the Greek word parousia—usually translated as "coming" when referring to Christ—as "presence". They believe Jesus' presence refers to a period of unknown duration rather than a moment of arrival.[201]

First of all we need to drop this whole shtick about Jehovah's witnesses, Jehovah is a misspelling and mispronunciation of the name of God. It should be Yahveh's witnesses or Yahweh's witnesses. How can I give you any credibility when you spell the name of your own church wrong?:confused:

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 04:19 AM

But Jesus' name wasnt Jesus either, it was Yashua or something similar. Jehovah is a translation just like most people call Jesus by his English name, depending on what language you speak

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 05:28 AM

Will This World Survive?
No other generation has heard so much talk about the end of the world. Many fear that the world will end in a nuclear holocaust. Others think that pollution may destroy the world. Still others worry that economic chaos will set masses of humanity against one another.
Could this world really end? If it did, what would it mean? Has a world ever ended before?
A World Ends—Another Replaces It
Yes, a world did end. Consider the world that became very wicked in the days of Noah. The Bible explains: “The world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.” The Bible also says: “[God] did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people.”—2*Peter 2:5; 3:6.
Note what the end of that world meant and what it did not mean. It did not mean the end of humankind. Noah and his family survived the global Flood. So did the planet Earth and the beautiful starry heavens. It was “a world of ungodly people” that perished, a wicked system of things.
Eventually, as Noah’s offspring increased, another world developed. That second world, or system of things, has existed down to our day. Its history has been filled with war, crime, and violence. What will happen to this world? Will it survive?
The Future of This World
After saying the world in Noah’s day suffered destruction, the Bible account continues: “By the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire.” (2*Peter 3:7) Indeed, as another Bible writer explains: “The world [the one existing today] is passing away.”—1*John 2:17.
The Bible does not mean that the literal earth or the starry heavens will pass away, even as these did not pass away in Noah’s day. (Psalm 104:5) Rather, this world, with its “heavens,” or governmental rulers under the influence of Satan, and its “earth,” or human society, will be destroyed as if by fire. (John 14:30; 2*Corinthians 4:4) This world, or system of things, will perish just as surely as did the world before the Flood. Even Jesus Christ spoke about the situation in “the days of Noah” as an example of what would happen just prior to the end of this world.—Matthew 24:37-39.
Significantly, when Jesus spoke of the days of Noah, it was in answer to his apostles’ question: “What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” (Matthew 24:3, King James Version) Jesus’ followers knew that this world would end. Did this prospect frighten them?
On the contrary, when Jesus described events that would occur prior to the world’s end, he encouraged them to rejoice ‘because their deliverance was getting near.’ (Luke 21:28) Yes, deliverance from Satan and his wicked system of things into a peaceful new world!—2*Peter 3:13.
But when will this world end? What “sign” did Jesus give of his “coming, and of the end of the world”?
“The Sign”
The Greek word here translated “coming” is pa‧rou‧si′a, and it means “presence,” that is, actually being on hand. So when “the sign” is seen, it would not mean Christ was soon to come but that he had already returned and was present. It would mean that he had begun ruling invisibly as a heavenly king and that he would soon bring an end to his enemies.—Revelation 12:7-12; Psalm 110:1,*2.
Jesus did not give just one event as “the sign.” He described many world events and situations. All of these would take place during the time that Bible writers called “the last days.” (2*Timothy 3:1-5; 2*Peter 3:3,*4) Consider some of the things that Jesus foretold would mark “the last days.”
“Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom.” (Matthew 24:7) War in modern times has been of greater magnitude than ever before. One historian noted: “The First World War [beginning in 1914] was the first ‘total’ war.” Yet, the second world war was much more destructive. And war continues to ravage the earth. Yes, Jesus’ words have undergone fulfillment in a dramatic way!
“There will be food shortages.” (Matthew 24:7) Following World War*I came perhaps the greatest famine in all history. Terrible famine also followed World War*II. A scourge of malnutrition affects up to one fifth of earth’s population, killing some 14 million children every year. Truly, there have been “food shortages”!
“There will be great earthquakes.” (Luke 21:11) On the average, about ten times as many have died each year from earthquakes since 1914 as in previous centuries. Consider only a few major ones: 1920, China, 200,000 killed; 1923, Japan, some 140,000 died or disappeared; 1939, Turkey, 32,700 fatalities; 1970, Peru, 66,800 killed; and 1976, China, about 240,000 (or, according to some sources, 800,000) casualties. Surely, “great earthquakes”!
“In one place after another pestilences.” (Luke 21:11) Right after World War*I, some 21 million people died of the Spanish flu. Science Digest reported: “In all history there had been no sterner, swifter visitation of death.” Since then, heart disease, cancer, AIDS, and many other plagues have killed hundreds of millions.
“Increasing of lawlessness.” (Matthew 24:12) Our world since 1914 has become known as one of crime and violence. In many places no one feels safe on the streets even during the daytime. At night people stay in their homes behind locked and barricaded doors, afraid to go outside.
Many other things were foretold to occur during the last days, and all of these also are being fulfilled. This means the end of the world is near. But, happily, there will be survivors. After saying “the world is passing away,” the Bible promises: “He that does the will of God remains forever.”—1*John 2:17.
So we need to learn God’s will and do it. Then we can survive this world’s end to enjoy eternally the blessings of God’s new world. The Bible promises that at that time: “God .*.*. will wipe out every tear from [people’s] eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”—Revelation 21:3,*4.

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 05:36 AM

Is This What God Purposed?
READ any newspaper. Look at television, or listen to the radio. There are so many stories of crime, war, and terrorism! Think about your own troubles. Perhaps illness or the death of a loved one is causing you great distress. You may feel like the good man Job, who said that he was “drenched with misery.”—Job 10:15, The Holy Bible in the Language of Today.
Ask yourself:
▪ Is this what God purposed for me and for the rest of mankind?
▪ Where can I find help to cope with my problems?
▪ Is there any hope that we will ever see peace on the earth?
The Bible provides satisfying answers to these questions.
THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT GOD WILL BRING ABOUT THESE CHANGES ON THE EARTH.
“He will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”—Revelation 21:4
“The lame one will climb up just as a stag does.”—Isaiah 35:6
“The eyes of the blind ones will be opened.”—Isaiah 35:5
“All those in the memorial tombs will .*.*. come out.”—John 5:28,*29
“No resident will say: ‘I am sick.’”—Isaiah 33:24
“There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth.”—Psalm 72:16
BENEFIT FROM WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
Do not quickly dismiss what is presented on the preceding pages as mere wishful thinking. God has promised to bring these things about, and the Bible explains how he will do so.
But the Bible does more than that. It provides the key to your enjoying a truly satisfying life even now. Think for a moment about your own anxieties and troubles. They may include money matters, family problems, loss of health, or the death of a loved one. The Bible can help you to deal with problems today, and it can provide relief by answering such questions as these:
▪ Why do we suffer?
▪ How can we cope with life’s anxieties?
▪ How can we make our family life happier?
▪ What happens to us when we die?
▪ Will we ever see our dead loved ones again?
▪ How can we be sure that God will fulfill his promises for the future?
The fact that you are reading this book shows that you would like to find out what the Bible teaches. This book will help you. Notice that the paragraphs have corresponding questions at the bottom of the page. Millions have enjoyed using the question-and-answer method when discussing the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses. We hope you will too. May you have God’s blessing as you now enjoy the thrilling and satisfying experience of learning what the Bible really teaches!
[Box/Picture on page*7]
GET TO KNOW YOUR BIBLE
THERE are 66 books and letters that make up the Bible. These are divided into chapters and verses for easy reference. When scriptures are cited in this publication, the first number after the name indicates the chapter of the Bible book or letter, and the next refers to the verse. For example, the citation “2*Timothy 3:16” means the second letter to Timothy, chapter*3, verse*16.
You will quickly become familiar with the Bible by looking up the scriptures cited in this publication. Also, why not start a program of daily Bible reading? By reading three to five chapters a day, you can read the entire Bible in a year.

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 11:37 AM

But Jesus' name wasnt Jesus either, it was Yashua or something similar. Jehovah is a translation just like most people call Jesus by his English name, depending on what language you speak

Yeshua is an English spelling of the Hebrew word, Jesus comes from the Greek , Jehovah is a complete miss.
Your a Yahweh's witness.
Now how the hell is Carl?:confused:

Calypso Jones

05-06-2011, 11:42 AM

Do you think Jehovah's witnesses are going to be the 144,000?

Revelation clearly states that John saw a new earth and a new jerusalem coming down from heaven. WE will not live in heaven but God will come down to earth to live among his Creation.

Is it true that Jehovah's witnesses consider themselves of the twelve tribes of israel? If so, which tribe are you?

on my 3 previous questions: I want to understand this correctly.

You say that Jesus is divine. and you stated YOUR beliefs in his identity. Do other jehovah's Witnesses believe the same or do they believe that Jesus is the ARchangel Michael?

Rebel Yell

05-06-2011, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by liberatecarl.com But Jesus' name wasnt Jesus either, it was Yashua or something similar. Jehovah is a translation just like most people call Jesus by his English name, depending on what language you speak

I thought Jesus was a Spanish name.:confused:

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 11:46 AM

I thought Jesus was a Spanish name.:confused:

They just pronounce it like Dr. Seuss.

Zathras

05-06-2011, 11:50 AM

Well, I see the wall-o-text spammer is back.

Dude, the world is not coming to an end and yours is not the one true religion. It's people like you that have turned me off to organised religion.

wilbur

05-06-2011, 07:06 PM

To liberatecarl -

Give me one good reason why I should believe anything you say, or anything in the Bible - just one.

Gingersnap

05-06-2011, 07:51 PM

To liberatecarl -

Give me one good reason why I should believe anything you say, or anything in the Bible - just one.

Pascal's Wager. :p

Novaheart

05-06-2011, 08:41 PM

Pascal's Wager. :p

Wouldn't Pascal's wager be equally true for Islam?

Novaheart

05-06-2011, 08:47 PM

Pascal's Wager. :p

"According to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions."

This part of the gambit is demonstrably false. While you cannot with science prove that there is no god or gods or godlike beings, with history and analysis you can show the known evolution of religion. You can show the commonalities of primitive beliefs and how they translate into scripture, ritual, government, and indoctrination which generates faith.

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 08:48 PM

Jesus Christ will rule for 1000 years as King of God's Kingdom and the world will be transformed into a paradise. Revelation 21:3,4

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 08:56 PM

Jesus Christ will rule for 1000 years as King of God's Kingdom and the world will be transformed into a paradise. Revelation 21:3,4

What about Carl? You haven't updated his page since 08 when he renounced his citizenship and cozied up to the Iranians.:rolleyes:

Zathras

05-06-2011, 08:59 PM

What about Carl? You haven't updated his page since 08 when he renounced his citizenship and cozied up to the Iranians.:rolleyes:

I guess he doesn't care about Carl anymore with all his doom and gloom tripe.

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 09:03 PM

I guess he doesn't care about Carl anymore with all his doom and gloom tripe.

It looks to me like Carl has probably been either released or sentenced and they just have the web page to see how many more donations they can snag. I found an October 2010 statement of Carl's on another blog and the trial should be over.
http://nformd.yolasite.com/nformd-blog/statement-from-carl-malaskiewicz-blaise

Gingersnap

05-06-2011, 09:10 PM

"According to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions."

This part of the gambit is demonstrably false. While you cannot with science prove that there is no god or gods or godlike beings, with history and analysis you can show the known evolution of religion. You can show the commonalities of primitive beliefs and how they translate into scripture, ritual, government, and indoctrination which generates faith.

Untrue since you cannot demonstrate that science is adequate to analyze the issue. Time and time again we have had logical scientific explanations for various phenomena (particularly human behaviors) that have been subsequently discarded by newer scientific theories. ;)

But let's stay on topic here or you can start another thread on this particular side issue.

Zathras

05-06-2011, 09:14 PM

It looks to me like Carl has probably been either released or sentenced and they just have the web page to see how many more donations they can snag. I found an October 2010 statement of Carl's on another blog and the trial should be over.
http://nformd.yolasite.com/nformd-blog/statement-from-carl-malaskiewicz-blaise

So Carl is a Moonbat, BDS sufferer and a truther eh?? Hope the Canadians lock him up for the rest of his worthless life...and send the OP there to join him. They deserve each other.

Zathras

05-06-2011, 09:15 PM

Jesus Christ will rule for 1000 years as King of God's Kingdom and the world will be transformed into a paradise. Revelation 21:3,4

RIIIIIIGHT.

fettpett

05-06-2011, 10:51 PM

Jesus Christ will rule for 1000 years as King of God's Kingdom and the world will be transformed into a paradise. Revelation 21:3,4

you still didn't answer my question

FlaGator

05-06-2011, 11:00 PM

Untrue since you cannot demonstrate that science is adequate to analyze the issue. Time and time again we have had logical scientific explanations for various phenomena (particularly human behaviors) that have been subsequently discarded by newer scientific theories. ;)

But let's stay on topic here or you can start another thread on this particular side issue.

Immanuel Kant described how, due to our limited sense perception, that we can never know an object fully. If an object has properties that are not identified by one of our 5 senses we can never know about them. The fact that these properties are unidentifiable doesn't not make them any less real than the properties we can know. For example, we humans are unable to detect with our senses infrared radiation. It was only discovered discovered by accident by Frederick William Herschel, but everyone will recognize that it was a real long before it was detected.

A God that has properties outside the 5 we can examine would be unknowable to us unless He were to make himself known via other means. I believe that the apparent fine tuning of the initial conditions at the creation of the universe are just one clue he left for modern man to discover. Specifically for modern man due to the technology he knew we would create. I believe that there are lots of other clues and that the weight of all these clues confirms His existence. However, since the evidence is circumstantial His reality can be denied by those who wish to do so. Look at the O.J. trail. In my opinion there was plenty of evidence to convict him but due to the defense muddying the waters of scientific data a jury was able to acquit.

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 11:02 PM

you still didn't answer my question

I don't think Mr Liberate is going to answer any questions to speak of, it's just going to be cut and paste from the Yahweh's witnesses bible and Watch Tower Magazine.

FlaGator

05-06-2011, 11:03 PM

So Carl is a Moonbat, BDS sufferer and a truther eh?? Hope the Canadians lock him up for the rest of his worthless life...and send the OP there to join him. They deserve each other.

I suspect that he is a Catholic. I'm not saying that all Catholics are moonbats with BDS... I'm just saying.

Zathras

05-06-2011, 11:12 PM

I suspect that he is a Catholic. I'm not saying that all Catholics are moonbats with BDS... I'm just saying.

I just had to read the blog Rock posted the link to....Moonbattery and BDS are the norm there.

fettpett

05-06-2011, 11:23 PM

I don't think Mr Liberate is going to answer any questions to speak of, it's just going to be cut and paste from the Yahweh's witnesses bible and Watch Tower Magazine.

yeah, i was just bringing it to his attention again, in case he missed it with is cut and pasting and ranting about chicken skinned bread doll aliens :D

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 11:26 PM

I just had to read the blog Rock posted the link to....Moonbattery and BDS are the norm there.

The guy is a piece of work and somewhat entertaining but he won't play.:mad:

tetrispro

05-06-2011, 11:46 PM

The guy is a piece of work and somewhat entertaining but he won't play.:mad:

I grew up a Catholic, went to other churches to search for answers and found the jw who can show answers from the Bible. I go to the jw because of researching the Bible. Jesus said that the meek shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5 Jesus was quoting scripture from Psalm 37:9-11

Rockntractor

05-06-2011, 11:48 PM

I grew up a Catholic, went to other churches to search for answers and found the jw who can show answers from the Bible. I go to the jw because of researching the Bible. Jesus said that the meek shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5 Jesus was quoting scripture from Psalm 37:9-11

Carl went back to Florida. I still maintain this account to post stuff about the Bible. To share the good news that Jesus preached. Carl gave up his political views. He's jw now and waiting for Christ to bring the paradise

Carl went back to Florida. I still maintain this account to post stuff about the Bible. To share the good news that Jesus preached. Carl gave up his political views. He's jw now and waiting for Christ to bring the paradise
Why haven't you closed the liberatecarl.com web page for collecting money if it is over now?

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 12:03 AM

Why haven't you closed the liberatecarl.com web page for collecting money if it is over now?

The paypal doesnt work and the site hasnt been updated to state Carl is no longer in Canada. I dont have the site stored on this computer. Its on my broken laptop. The Myspace says he is back in Florida so does his facebook. His personal myspace. www.myspace.com/tetrisworldchampion the photos have to be updated. Carl no longer has long hair. Carl is trying to also be the official Tetris world champion. He was a gamer and is trying to reset his old world record. www.twingalaxies.com He wants to set the record and give up gaming afterwards. Get his name in the world record book. Focusing of Christ and God's Kingdom is Carl's primary interest now. Tetris is a non-violent video game he used to play before he left Florida in 98

Carl went back to Florida. I still maintain this account to post stuff about the Bible. To share the good news that Jesus preached. Carl gave up his political views. He's jw now and waiting for Christ to bring the paradise

I can help you out with the pair of dice!
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/pair-of-dice.jpg

fettpett

05-07-2011, 12:11 AM

I grew up a Catholic, went to other churches to search for answers and found the jw who can show answers from the Bible. I go to the jw because of researching the Bible. Jesus said that the meek shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5 Jesus was quoting scripture from Psalm 37:9-11

:rolleyes: STILL going to ignore my question?

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 12:12 AM

Ask me the question again and Ill try to answer it for you.

fettpett

05-07-2011, 12:15 AM

Ask me the question again and Ill try to answer it for you.

what? is it too hard for you to go back 2-3 pages and look? good grief

I asked what your view of the Sabbath is and how it pertains to the End times

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 12:18 AM

what? is it too hard for you to go back 2-3 pages and look? good grief

I asked what your view of the Sabbath is and how it pertains to the End times

Yahweh witnesses had a strong SDA influence when Charles taze Russell formed them, they are not seventh day sabbitarian though.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 12:23 AM

The Sabbath was given to the natural Jews, not binding on Christians-Colossians 2:16,17; Romans 14:5,10.

Yahweh witnesses had a strong SDA influence when Charles taze Russell formed them, they are not seventh day sabbitarian though.

I know, but that doesn't mean that is his personal view on it

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 12:27 AM

I know, but that doesn't mean that is his personal view on it

Yahweh witnesses don't have personal views or they are immediately excommunicated and even their family members may not associate with them.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 12:28 AM

Ephesians 2:15 "By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees...." is what the scripture says. The Bible should speak for itself

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 12:53 AM

The paypal doesnt work and the site hasnt been updated to state Carl is no longer in Canada. I dont have the site stored on this computer. Its on my broken laptop. The Myspace says he is back in Florida so does his facebook. His personal myspace. www.myspace.com/tetrisworldchampion the photos have to be updated. Carl no longer has long hair. Carl is trying to also be the official Tetris world champion. He was a gamer and is trying to reset his old world record. www.twingalaxies.com He wants to set the record and give up gaming afterwards. Get his name in the world record book. Focusing of Christ and God's Kingdom is Carl's primary interest now. Tetris is a non-violent video game he used to play before he left Florida in 98

Thanks, I'm glad you clarified that.

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 12:58 AM

You know Mr Liberate you are welcome to discuss other topics with us. If you would like SarasotaRepub could change your username to something more suitable.

Zathras

05-07-2011, 01:03 AM

You know Mr Liberate you are welcome to discuss other topics with us. If you would like SarasotaRepub could change your username to something more suitable.

Good luck with that Rock, asking a one trick pony to do something outside the very narrow box he's in. He reminds me of good old Axel with his one topic mindset.

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 01:14 AM

Good luck with that Rock, asking a one trick pony to do something outside the very narrow box he's in. He reminds me of good old Axel with his one topic mindset.

I know, not much chance but I'll give it a try. I had a friend from work one time who was a Yahweh's witness, heck of a nice guy.

ABC

05-07-2011, 01:15 AM

I have a question slightly off topic for you Mr. Liberate as Rock calls you.

(Thx. Rock ... rest was too long to type.)

What is the reason why JW folks do not believe in blood transfusions?

I would love to know. Please keep it short, as I really don't want to threadjack here.

~ ABC

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 01:15 AM

I dont mind changing the user name now

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 01:17 AM

I have a question slightly off topic for you Mr. Liberate as Rock calls you.

(Thx. Rock ... rest was too long to type.)

What is the reason why JW folks do not believe in blood transfusions?

I would love to know. Please keep it short, as I really don't want to threadjack here.

~ ABC

The Bible says blood is for sacrifice only. Jesus' blood saves. The Bible forbids the 'eating' of blood. If you were told to abstain from alcohol you wouldnt put it into your vains, would you?

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 01:19 AM

I dont mind changing the user name now

Send SarasotaRepub a PM with the new name you request and I'm sure he will be glad to change it for you.

fettpett

05-07-2011, 01:20 AM

The Sabbath was given to the natural Jews, not binding on Christians-Colossians 2:16,17; Romans 14:5,10.

so, your saying that all of the 10 Commandments where done away and Christ's death with and not that laws surrounding the tabernacle/temple?

Romans 3 talks about how the Law (the 10 Commandments) were not done away with as they point out our sins,

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

but we are redeemed through faith in Christ's resurrection and sacrifice that gives us his Righteousness
Roman's 3 21-26

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

However faith does not void the law

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
and
Romans 4: 13-15
13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Now that the law was established as a measuring stick to show us our sins, what law is Paul referring too? Well there is only one set of Laws that were given to establish what sin is, the Ten Commandments

Exodus 20:3-17
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “ Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Deuteronomy 5:6–21
6 ‘I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.
8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
11 ‘You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
12 ‘ Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
16 ‘ Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
17 ‘You shall not murder.
18 ‘You shall not commit adultery.
19 ‘You shall not steal.
20 ‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
21 ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.’

Colossians 2:16,17 those verses aren't talking about the weekly Sabbath, they are talking about the yearly traditional sabbaths such as Passover, which Christ fulfilled the meaning of at his death and resurrection

Roman's 14 is talking about not judging people for how they worship of if they continue to observe different traditions, while one is bound by them as a Christian, one still has the liberty to follow them and do as they want. This is not referring to the specifically to weekly Sabbath but isn't baring anyone from worshiping God on any other day either.

Hebrews 4 while talking to the recipients about not following the path of the Israelites that wondered in the desert for 40 years as they were denied the rest of the Promised land, but does talk about the weekly Sabbath rest and what it has to offer us. And that Jesus did not change the Sabbath

1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 01:22 AM

I dont mind changing the user name now

What name do you have in mind?

fettpett

05-07-2011, 01:34 AM

The Bible says blood is for sacrifice only. Jesus' blood saves. The Bible forbids the 'eating' of blood. If you were told to abstain from alcohol you wouldnt put it into your vains, would you?

There is a difference between consuming something for substance and/or sacrificial reasons, which many pagan religions used blood consumption for, and having blood save one's life. There is also a very big difference between how the digestive system handles blood and how the body process new blood directly into the blood stream.

alcohol put directly into the blood stream would kill a person while digestion removes the toxins, it's the reverse of blood.

ABC

05-07-2011, 01:39 AM

The Bible says blood is for sacrifice only. Jesus' blood saves. The Bible forbids the 'eating' of blood. If you were told to abstain from alcohol you wouldnt put it into your vains, would you?

Thanks for answering so quickly. I appreciate it ... and now must get outta here.

fettpett

05-07-2011, 02:01 AM

Yahweh witnesses had a strong SDA influence when Charles taze Russell formed them, they are not seventh day sabbitarian though.

after doing some reading, JW was influenced by traditional Millerite Adventist, not SDA. the SDA church had broken off from that about 20 years previous to when Russell meet and heard Jonas Wendell speak (who wasn't SDA, but Millerite)
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/offshoot.html

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 02:17 AM

after doing some reading, JW was influenced by traditional Millerite Adventist, not SDA. the SDA church had broken off from that about 20 years previous to when Russell meet and heard Jonas Wendell speak (who wasn't SDA, but Millerite)
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/offshoot.html

Common roots dude, don't split hairs, they had a lot of other influences also.

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 02:28 AM

Here is one for yah Fetterpetter, Why do Adventist immediately approach non- Christians with questions concerning the sabbath or dietary regs, Why not the cross or grace, or salvation by faith in Christ?

Zathras

05-07-2011, 02:39 AM

The Bible says blood is for sacrifice only. Jesus' blood saves. The Bible forbids the 'eating' of blood. If you were told to abstain from alcohol you wouldnt put it into your vains, would you?

So if your child needed a transfusion to save their life, you would let them die?

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 03:50 AM

Law of God to Israel—The Law of Moses. Jehovah gave Israel the Law through Moses as mediator, in the Wilderness of Sinai, 1513*B.C.E. At the inauguration of the Law at Mount Horeb there was an awe-inspiring demonstration of Jehovah’s power. (Ex 19:16-19; 20:18-21; Heb 12:18-21, 25,*26) The covenant was validated by the blood of bulls and goats. The people presented communion offerings, and they heard the book of the covenant read to them, after which they agreed to be obedient to all that Jehovah had spoken. Many of the earlier patriarchal laws were incorporated in the Law given through Moses.—Ex 24:3-8; Heb 9:15-21; see COVENANT.
The first five books of the Bible (Genesis through Deuteronomy) are often referred to as the Law. Sometimes this term is used with reference to the entire inspired Hebrew Scriptures. Generally, however, the Jews considered the entire Hebrew Scriptures to be composed of three sections, “the law of Moses,” “the Prophets,” and “Psalms.” (Lu 24:44) Commands that came through the prophets were binding upon Israel.
Jehovah was identified in the Law as absolute Sovereign and also as King in a special way. Since Jehovah was both God and King of Israel, disobedience to the Law was both a religious offense and lèse-majesté, an offense against the Head of State, which in this case was against the King Jehovah. David, Solomon, and their successors on the throne of Judah were said to sit on “Jehovah’s throne.” (1Ch 29:23) Human kings and rulers in Israel were bound by the Law, and when they became despotic they were law violators accountable to God. (1Sa 15:22,*23) Kingship and priesthood were separate, this separation constituting a balance of power and a safeguard against tyranny. It kept the Israelites ever mindful that Jehovah was their God and real King. Each individual’s relationship to God and to his fellowman was defined by the Law, and each individual could approach God through the priestly arrangement.
Under the Law, the Israelites could have become “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Ex 19:5,*6) The Law’s demands of exclusive devotion to Jehovah, its absolute prohibition of any form of interfaith, and its regulations concerning religious cleanness and diet constituted a “wall” to keep the nation outstandingly separate from other nations. (Eph 2:14) A Jew could hardly enter a Gentile tent or house or eat with Gentiles without becoming religiously unclean. In fact, when Jesus was on earth, even entering a Gentile house or building was thought to make a Jew unclean. (Joh 18:28; Ac 10:28) The sanctity of life and the dignity and honor of the family, of marriage, of person, were protected. Additional effects, which could be considered incidental to the religious separation that the Law covenant accomplished, were the health benefits and the protection from diseases common to the nations around the Israelites. The laws of moral cleanness, physical sanitation, and diet undoubtedly had a salutary effect when they were obeyed.
But the real purpose of the Law was, as stated by the apostle Paul, “to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive.” It was a “tutor leading to Christ.” It pointed to Christ as the objective aimed at (“Christ is the end of the Law”). It revealed that all humans, including the Jews, are under sin and that life cannot be obtained by “works of law.” (Ga 3:19-24; Ro 3:20; 10:4) It was “spiritual,” from God, and “holy.” (Ro 7:12,*14) At Ephesians 2:15 it is called “the Law of commandments consisting in decrees.” It was a standard of perfection, marking the one who could keep it as perfect, worthy of life. (Le 18:5; Ga 3:12) Since imperfect humans could not keep the Law, it showed that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Ro 3:23) Only Jesus Christ kept it blamelessly.—Joh 8:46; Heb 7:26.
The Law also served as “a shadow of the good things to come,” and things connected with it were “typical representations,” causing Jesus and the apostles to call upon it often to explain heavenly things and matters concerning Christian doctrine and conduct. Therefore, it provides an essential and necessary field of study for the Christian.—Heb 10:1; 9:23.
Jesus said that the whole Law hung upon the two commandments, to love God and to love one’s neighbor. (Mt 22:35-40) It is interesting that in the book of Deuteronomy (where the Law was modified somewhat to govern Israel’s new circumstances upon settling in the Promised Land) the Hebrew words for “love,” “loved,” and so forth, appear more than 20 times.
The Ten Words (Ex 34:28), or the Ten Commandments, were the basic part of the Law but were combined with about 600 other laws, all of which were of equal force and binding power upon the Israelites. (Jas 2:10) The first four of the Ten Commandments defined man’s relationship to God; the fifth, to God and to parents; and the last five, to one’s fellowman. These last five were named in apparent order of severity of harm done to one’s fellowman: murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, and covetousness or selfish desire. The tenth commandment makes the Law unique in comparison with the laws of all other nations in that it prohibits selfish desire, a command in reality enforceable only by God. It actually got at the cause of violation of all the other commandments.—Ex 20:2-17; De 5:6-21; compare Eph 5:5; Col 3:5; Jas 1:14,*15; 1Jo 2:15-17.
The Law contained many principles and guiding statutes. The judges were given latitude to investigate and consider motives and attitude of violators, along with the circumstances surrounding the violation. A deliberate, disrespectful, or unrepentant violator received the full penalty. (Nu 15:30,*31) In other cases a lighter judgment might be determined. For example, whereas a murderer was to be put to death without fail, an accidental manslayer could receive mercy. (Nu 35:15,*16) The owner of a bull that habitually gored people and that killed a man might die; or the judges might impose a ransom. (Ex 21:29-32) The difference between a deliberate thief and a wrongdoer who voluntarily confessed evidently accounts for the difference between the penalty stated at Exodus 22:7 and that of Leviticus 6:1-7.

“Law of the Christ.” Paul wrote: “Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.” (Ga 6:2) While the Law covenant was terminated at Pentecost, 33*C.E. (“since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law”; Heb 7:12), Christians come “under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) This law is called “the perfect law that belongs to freedom,” “the law of a free people,” “the law of faith.” (Jas 1:25; 2:12; Ro 3:27) Such a new law had been foretold by God through the prophet Jeremiah when he spoke of a new covenant and the writing of his law on the hearts of his people.—Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-13.
Like Moses, the mediator of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ is Mediator of the new covenant. Moses wrote the Law in code form, but Jesus did not personally put a law down in writing. He talked and put his law into the minds and hearts of his disciples. Neither did his disciples set down laws in the form of a code for Christians, classifying the laws into categories and subheadings. Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2,*3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34,*35; 14:15; 15:14.
Jesus gave instruction to his disciples to preach the ‘good news of the kingdom.’ His command is found at Matthew 10:1-42; Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12. At Matthew 28:18-20 a new command was given to Jesus’ disciples to go, not to the Jews only, but to all nations, to make disciples and baptize them with a new baptism, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Thus, with divine authorization Jesus taught and issued commands while on earth (Ac 1:1,*2) as well as after his ascension. (Ac 9:5,*6; Re 1:1-3) The entire book of Revelation consists of prophecies, commands, admonition, and instruction to the Christian congregation.
The “law of the Christ” covers the whole course and scope of the Christian’s life and work. By the help of God’s spirit the Christian can follow the commands in order to be judged favorably by that law, for it is “the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus.”—Ro 8:2,*4.

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 04:04 AM

Law of God to Israel—The Law of Moses. Jehovah gave Israel the Law through Moses as mediator, in the Wilderness of Sinai, 1513*B.C.E. At the inauguration of the Law at Mount Horeb there was an awe-inspiring demonstration of Jehovah’s power. (Ex 19:16-19; 20:18-21; Heb 12:18-21, 25,*26) The covenant was validated by the blood of bulls and goats. The people presented communion offerings, and they heard the book of the covenant read to them, after which they agreed to be obedient to all that Jehovah had spoken. Many of the earlier patriarchal laws were incorporated in the Law given through Moses.—Ex 24:3-8; Heb 9:15-21; see COVENANT.
The first five books of the Bible (Genesis through Deuteronomy) are often referred to as the Law. Sometimes this term is used with reference to the entire inspired Hebrew Scriptures. Generally, however, the Jews considered the entire Hebrew Scriptures to be composed of three sections, “the law of Moses,” “the Prophets,” and “Psalms.” (Lu 24:44) Commands that came through the prophets were binding upon Israel.
Jehovah was identified in the Law as absolute Sovereign and also as King in a special way. Since Jehovah was both God and King of Israel, disobedience to the Law was both a religious offense and lèse-majesté, an offense against the Head of State, which in this case was against the King Jehovah. David, Solomon, and their successors on the throne of Judah were said to sit on “Jehovah’s throne.” (1Ch 29:23) Human kings and rulers in Israel were bound by the Law, and when they became despotic they were law violators accountable to God. (1Sa 15:22,*23) Kingship and priesthood were separate, this separation constituting a balance of power and a safeguard against tyranny. It kept the Israelites ever mindful that Jehovah was their God and real King. Each individual’s relationship to God and to his fellowman was defined by the Law, and each individual could approach God through the priestly arrangement.
Under the Law, the Israelites could have become “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Ex 19:5,*6) The Law’s demands of exclusive devotion to Jehovah, its absolute prohibition of any form of interfaith, and its regulations concerning religious cleanness and diet constituted a “wall” to keep the nation outstandingly separate from other nations. (Eph 2:14) A Jew could hardly enter a Gentile tent or house or eat with Gentiles without becoming religiously unclean. In fact, when Jesus was on earth, even entering a Gentile house or building was thought to make a Jew unclean. (Joh 18:28; Ac 10:28) The sanctity of life and the dignity and honor of the family, of marriage, of person, were protected. Additional effects, which could be considered incidental to the religious separation that the Law covenant accomplished, were the health benefits and the protection from diseases common to the nations around the Israelites. The laws of moral cleanness, physical sanitation, and diet undoubtedly had a salutary effect when they were obeyed.
But the real purpose of the Law was, as stated by the apostle Paul, “to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive.” It was a “tutor leading to Christ.” It pointed to Christ as the objective aimed at (“Christ is the end of the Law”). It revealed that all humans, including the Jews, are under sin and that life cannot be obtained by “works of law.” (Ga 3:19-24; Ro 3:20; 10:4) It was “spiritual,” from God, and “holy.” (Ro 7:12,*14) At Ephesians 2:15 it is called “the Law of commandments consisting in decrees.” It was a standard of perfection, marking the one who could keep it as perfect, worthy of life. (Le 18:5; Ga 3:12) Since imperfect humans could not keep the Law, it showed that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Ro 3:23) Only Jesus Christ kept it blamelessly.—Joh 8:46; Heb 7:26.
The Law also served as “a shadow of the good things to come,” and things connected with it were “typical representations,” causing Jesus and the apostles to call upon it often to explain heavenly things and matters concerning Christian doctrine and conduct. Therefore, it provides an essential and necessary field of study for the Christian.—Heb 10:1; 9:23.
Jesus said that the whole Law hung upon the two commandments, to love God and to love one’s neighbor. (Mt 22:35-40) It is interesting that in the book of Deuteronomy (where the Law was modified somewhat to govern Israel’s new circumstances upon settling in the Promised Land) the Hebrew words for “love,” “loved,” and so forth, appear more than 20 times.
The Ten Words (Ex 34:28), or the Ten Commandments, were the basic part of the Law but were combined with about 600 other laws, all of which were of equal force and binding power upon the Israelites. (Jas 2:10) The first four of the Ten Commandments defined man’s relationship to God; the fifth, to God and to parents; and the last five, to one’s fellowman. These last five were named in apparent order of severity of harm done to one’s fellowman: murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, and covetousness or selfish desire. The tenth commandment makes the Law unique in comparison with the laws of all other nations in that it prohibits selfish desire, a command in reality enforceable only by God. It actually got at the cause of violation of all the other commandments.—Ex 20:2-17; De 5:6-21; compare Eph 5:5; Col 3:5; Jas 1:14,*15; 1Jo 2:15-17.
The Law contained many principles and guiding statutes. The judges were given latitude to investigate and consider motives and attitude of violators, along with the circumstances surrounding the violation. A deliberate, disrespectful, or unrepentant violator received the full penalty. (Nu 15:30,*31) In other cases a lighter judgment might be determined. For example, whereas a murderer was to be put to death without fail, an accidental manslayer could receive mercy. (Nu 35:15,*16) The owner of a bull that habitually gored people and that killed a man might die; or the judges might impose a ransom. (Ex 21:29-32) The difference between a deliberate thief and a wrongdoer who voluntarily confessed evidently accounts for the difference between the penalty stated at Exodus 22:7 and that of Leviticus 6:1-7.

“Law of the Christ.” Paul wrote: “Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.” (Ga 6:2) While the Law covenant was terminated at Pentecost, 33*C.E. (“since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law”; Heb 7:12), Christians come “under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) This law is called “the perfect law that belongs to freedom,” “the law of a free people,” “the law of faith.” (Jas 1:25; 2:12; Ro 3:27) Such a new law had been foretold by God through the prophet Jeremiah when he spoke of a new covenant and the writing of his law on the hearts of his people.—Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-13.
Like Moses, the mediator of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ is Mediator of the new covenant. Moses wrote the Law in code form, but Jesus did not personally put a law down in writing. He talked and put his law into the minds and hearts of his disciples. Neither did his disciples set down laws in the form of a code for Christians, classifying the laws into categories and subheadings. Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2,*3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34,*35; 14:15; 15:14.
Jesus gave instruction to his disciples to preach the ‘good news of the kingdom.’ His command is found at Matthew 10:1-42; Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12. At Matthew 28:18-20 a new command was given to Jesus’ disciples to go, not to the Jews only, but to all nations, to make disciples and baptize them with a new baptism, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Thus, with divine authorization Jesus taught and issued commands while on earth (Ac 1:1,*2) as well as after his ascension. (Ac 9:5,*6; Re 1:1-3) The entire book of Revelation consists of prophecies, commands, admonition, and instruction to the Christian congregation.
The “law of the Christ” covers the whole course and scope of the Christian’s life and work. By the help of God’s spirit the Christian can follow the commands in order to be judged favorably by that law, for it is “the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus.”—Ro 8:2,*4.

was that an answer to this?:rolleyes:

So if your child needed a transfusion to save their life, you would let them die?
Mr Liberate, no one will read all that, just answer his question in a concise manner.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 04:27 AM

If they die God will resurrect them. Some people die from blood transfusions too. Too many diseases in the blood.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 04:32 AM

In the Bible, the soul is said to be in the blood because blood is so intimately involved in the life processes. God’s Word says: “For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for you to make atonement for your souls, because it is the blood that makes atonement by the soul in it.” (Le 17:11) For like reason, but making the connection even more direct, the Bible says: “The soul of every sort of flesh is its blood.” (Le 17:14) Clearly, God’s Word treats both life and blood as sacred.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 04:33 AM

Proper Use of Blood. There was only one use of blood that God ever approved, namely, for sacrifice. He directed that those under the Mosaic Law offer animal sacrifices to make atonement for sin. (Le 17:10,*11) It was also in harmony with His will that His Son, Jesus Christ, offered up his perfect human life as a sacrifice for sins.—Heb 10:5,*10.
The lifesaving application of Christ’s blood was prefigured in a variety of ways in the Hebrew Scriptures. At the time of the first Passover, in Egypt, the blood on the upper part of the doorway and on the doorposts of the Israelite homes protected the firstborn inside from death at the hand of God’s angel. (Ex 12:7, 22,*23; 1Co 5:7) The Law covenant, which had a typical sin-removing feature, was validated by the blood of animals. (Ex 24:5-8) The numerous blood sacrifices, particularly those offered on the Day of Atonement, were for typical sin atonement, pointing to the real sin removal by the sacrifice of Christ.—Le 16:11, 15-18.
The legal power that blood has in God’s sight as accepted by him for atonement purposes was illustrated by the pouring of blood at the base, or foundation, of the altar and the putting of it on the horns of the altar. The atonement arrangement had its basis, or foundation, in blood, and the power (represented by horns) of the sacrificial arrangement rested in blood.—Le 9:9; Heb 9:22; 1Co 1:18.
Under the Christian arrangement, the sanctity of blood was even more strongly emphasized. No longer was animal blood to be offered, for those animal offerings were only a shadow of the reality, Jesus Christ. (Col 2:17; Heb 10:1-4, 8-10) The high priest in Israel used to take a token portion of the blood into the Most Holy of the earthly sanctuary. (Le 16:14) Jesus Christ as the real High Priest entered into heaven itself, not with his blood, which was poured out on the ground (Joh 19:34), but with the value of his perfect human life as represented by blood. This life right he never forfeited by sin, but he retained it as usable for sin atonement. (Heb 7:26; 8:3; 9:11,*12) For these reasons the blood of Christ cries out for better things than the blood of righteous Abel did. Only the blood of the perfect sacrifice of the Son of God can call for mercy, while the blood of Abel as well as the blood of martyred followers of Christ cries out for vengeance.—Heb 12:24; Re 6:9-11.

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 04:42 AM

Yes or no.

MrsSmith

05-07-2011, 08:45 AM

Jesus, his Father, and the Holy spirit are all one in purpose NOT one substance. Google the word homoousios

God has an endless memory. He can play us back and put our life force into a new body just as easily as we can play back a tape or dvd by putting it into another vcr or dvd player by reanimating us with a new body.

The holy dpirit works through God's anointed, God reveals things through certain people who relay the message to others.
The Holy Spirit works in all believers,
1 Cor. 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
1Cr 2:13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, [fn]combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
1Cr 2:14 But [fn]a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually [fn]appraised.
1Cr 2:15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

John 14:9Jesus [!] said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
[ Jhn 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
Jhn 14:11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

These verses say that Christ and God are One, not just that they share a purpose. And that the Holy Spirit comes to all believers, not just certain "special" ones.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 09:02 AM

The Bible says that theyre one like a husband and wife are 'one' flesh- John 10:30; Matthew 19:4-6

Disciples must have same 'oneness' -John 17:20-22; 1 Corinthians 1:10

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 09:05 AM

The disciples all have the fruitage of the holy spirit by looking at the quality of their lives. Jesus said that his true disciples would be known by the LOVE that they would have for one another John 13:34,35 Love is one of the nine fruitages of the holy spirit. They show kindness towards one another Kindness is another fruit of the holy spirit. His disciples would be known by their fruits..

fettpett

05-07-2011, 10:09 AM

Here is one for yah Fetterpetter, Why do Adventist immediately approach non- Christians with questions concerning the sabbath or dietary regs, Why not the cross or grace, or salvation by faith in Christ?

because there is little difference between Adventist and most denominations in those areas. The only difference that I know from what this the idea of once saved always saved. I asked him about it because he was going on about end time stuff, so i was just wondering how he believed that Sabbath played into End Time stuff since that what his shtick.

Frankly i don't care what one puts in their body as far as food goes, other than from a health stand point, If someone asks why, i'll tell them, other than that, it's up to the individual.

fettpett

05-07-2011, 10:13 AM

The Bible says that theyre one like a husband and wife are 'one' flesh- John 10:30; Matthew 19:4-6

Disciples must have same 'oneness' -John 17:20-22; 1 Corinthians 1:10

yeah, the Godhead is 'one' but it's also three. It's difficult for our minds to wrap around the concept of an infinite being due to our finite view point. This is where Faith comes in.

fettpett

05-07-2011, 10:22 AM

If they die God will resurrect them. Some people die from blood transfusions too. Too many diseases in the blood.

ok, so if we have the ability to heal through nearly any means why shouldn't we? Christ healed anyone that asked and some that didn't but still had faith that he would heal them and did it on the Sabbath much to the chagrin to the Jewish leaders, heck he even gathered food on the Sabbath that upset them. He even told us to heal when possible.

yes there are certain things that are unethical like fetal stem cells that shouldn't be used, but blood is not one of them.

Zathras

05-07-2011, 11:23 AM

If they die God will resurrect them. Some people die from blood transfusions too. Too many diseases in the blood.

So, even though they can be saved with a proceedure that has been proven safe in the past, you'd let an innocent child die? Not very Christian of you, breaking one of the Ten Commandments like that...you know, "Thou Shall Not Kill"? Because, through your actions, or inactions in this case, you would kill the child. As for God resurecting them? It has never happened before...you can't point to any real world instance of this happening and say "God resurected them".

Oh, and respond to this with your own words, without the scripture cut-n-paste, wall-o-text reply, because I won't read it if you do.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 12:31 PM

The resurrection hasn't occurred yet. When Jesus is ruling as king for 1000 years, he will start resurrecting people then.

Zathras

05-07-2011, 12:38 PM

The resurrection hasn't occurred yet. When Jesus is ruling as king for 1000 years, he will start resurrecting people then.

Well, until that happens IF IT HAPPENS (and thats a BIG if), you're breaking the commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill'. Again, not very Christian of you and very sick in the head if you ask me. Denying a child something that could save their life because of your interpetation of scripture that may or may not be right? Not a religion I want anything to do with.

fettpett

05-07-2011, 01:27 PM

it's actually "Thou Shall not Murder", but your point still stands

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 02:04 PM

abstain from blood. The early Christians were tempted with blood filled sausages. Human and animal. There are blood alternatives which jw use. jw use blood fragments too

Witnesses are told that the use of fractions such as albumin, immunoglobulins and hemophiliac preparations are "not absolutely prohibited" and a matter of personal choice.[3] Although accepted by the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses, a minority does not endorse this doctrine.[5

The resurrection hasn't occurred yet. When Jesus is ruling as king for 1000 years, he will start resurrecting people then.

resurrecting the dead in Christ happens at 'rapture'. They will rule with Christ for the 1000 years. At the end of that thousand years. Satan will be released one last time. right? or wrong?

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 02:15 PM

there is no 'rapture like the Left Behind series says.' This is a misunderstanding of Scripture. The dead in union raised with Christ around 1919 (See Daniel prophecy book) those who died afterwards were caught up in a twinkling of an eye (we the living) This is the first resurrection. The remnant of the 144000, when the day theyre caught up immediately instead of waiting in their graves like (those who have died.) This so called rapture is already taking place. It refers to th 144000. Not those whole live on the new earth. The second resurrection takes place on the paradise earth after Armageddon Then there is a thousand years. MAnkind will gradually be raised to life (perfection) during the thousand years. Then Satan is let out one more time

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 02:23 PM

Resurrection of Christ’s “brothers.” Those who are “called and chosen and faithful,” Christ’s footstep followers, his “brothers,” who are spiritually begotten as “God’s children,” are promised a resurrection like his. (Re 17:14; Ro 6:5; 8:15,*16; Heb 2:11) The apostle Peter writes to fellow Christians: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you.”—1Pe 1:3,*4.
Peter also describes the hope such ones possess as “precious and very grand promises, that through these you may become sharers in divine nature.” (2Pe 1:4) They must undergo a change of nature, giving up human nature to obtain “divine” nature, thus sharing with Christ in his glory. They must die a death like Christ’s—maintaining integrity and giving up human life forever—and then they receive immortal, incorruptible bodies like Christ’s by a resurrection. (Ro 6:3-5; 1Co 15:50-57; 2Co 5:1-3) The apostle Paul explains that it is not the body that is resurrected, but rather, he likens their experience to the planting and sprouting of a seed, in that “God gives it a body just as it has pleased him.” (1Co 15:35-40) It is the soul, the person, that is resurrected, with a body to suit the environment into which God resurrects him.
In the case of Jesus Christ, he gave up his human life as a ransom sacrifice for the benefit of mankind. The 40th Psalm is applied to him by the inspired writer of the book of Hebrews, who represents Jesus as saying, when he came “into the world” as God’s Messiah: “Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me.” (Heb 10:5) Jesus himself said: “For a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (Joh 6:51) It follows that Christ could not take his body back again in the resurrection, thereby taking back the sacrifice offered to God for mankind. Besides, Christ was no longer to abide on earth. His “home” is in the heavens with his Father, who is not flesh, but spirit. (Joh 14:3; 4:24) Jesus Christ therefore received a glorious immortal, incorruptible body, for “he is the reflection of [Jehovah’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places. So he has become better than the angels [who are themselves mighty spirit persons], to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.”—Heb 1:3,*4; 10:12,*13.
Christ’s faithful brothers, who join him in the heavens, give up human life. The apostle Paul shows that they have to have new bodies repatterned, or refashioned, for their new environment: “As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has.”—Php 3:20,*21.
Time of the heavenly resurrection. The heavenly resurrection of Christ’s joint heirs begins after Jesus Christ returns in heavenly glory, to give first attention to his spiritual brothers. Christ himself is called “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.” Paul then says that each one will be resurrected in his own rank, “Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.” (1Co 15:20,*23) These, as “the house of God,” have been under judgment during their Christian life course, beginning with the first of their number at Pentecost. (1Pe 4:17) They are “certain [literally, some] firstfruits.” (Jas 1:18, Int; Re 14:4) Jesus Christ can be compared to the barley firstfruits offered by the Israelites on Nisan 16 (“Christ the firstfruits”), and his spiritual brothers as “firstfruits” (“certain firstfruits”) can be compared to the wheat firstfruits offered on Pentecost day, the 50th day from Nisan 16.—Le 23:4-12, 15-20.
These have been under judgment, so at Christ’s return it is time to give the reward to them, his faithful anointed ones, just as he promised his 11 faithful apostles on the evening before his death: “I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, .*.*. I am coming again and will receive you home to myself, that where I am you also may be.”—Joh 14:2,*3; Lu 19:12-23; compare 2Ti 4:1,*8; Re 11:17,*18.

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 02:25 PM

“The Lamb’s marriage.” These as a body are called his (prospective) “bride” (Re 21:9); they are promised to him in marriage, and they must be resurrected to the heavens in order to take part in “the marriage of the Lamb.” (2Co 11:2; Re 19:7,*8) The apostle Paul looked forward to receiving his heavenly resurrection. (2Ti 4:8) When Christ’s “presence” takes place, there are some of his spiritual brothers yet alive on earth, “invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage,” but those of their number who have died are given first attention by a resurrection. (Re 19:9) This is explained at 1*Thessalonians 4:15,*16: “For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.”
Paul then adds: “Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.” (1Th 4:17) Thus, at the time that they finish their earthly course faithfully in death, the remaining ones who have the invitation to “the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage” are immediately resurrected to join their fellow members of the bride class in heaven. They do not “fall asleep in death” in the sense of waiting in a long sleep, as did the apostles but, on dying, are “changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” (1Co 15:51,*52) Evidently, though, “the marriage of the Lamb” does not take place until after judgment has been executed upon “Babylon the Great.” (Re 18) After describing the destruction of this “great harlot,” Revelation 19:7 says: “Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him the glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself.” When all the 144,000 have been finally approved and “sealed” as faithful ones and have been resurrected to the heavens, the marriage can proceed.
First resurrection. Revelation 20:5,*6 refers to the resurrection of those who will reign with Christ as “the first resurrection.” The apostle Paul speaks of this first resurrection also as “the earlier resurrection from the dead [literally, the out-resurrection the out of dead (ones)].” (Php 3:11, NW, Ro, Int) On the expression Paul uses here, Robertson’s Word Pictures in the New Testament (1931, Vol. IV, p. 454) says: “Apparently Paul is thinking here only of the resurrection of believers out from the dead and so double ex [out] (ten exanastasin ten ek nekron). Paul is not denying a general resurrection by this language, but emphasizing that of believers.” Charles Ellicott’s Commentaries (1865, Vol. II, p. 87) remarks on Philippians 3:11: “‘The resurrection from the dead;’ i.e., as the context suggests, the first resurrection (Rev. xx. 5), when, at the Lord’s coming the dead in Him shall rise first (1*Thessalon. iv. 16), and the quick be caught up to meet Him in the clouds (1*Thess. iv. 17); compare Luke xx. 35. The first resurrection will include only true believers, and will apparently precede the second, that of non-believers and disbelievers, in point of time .*.*. Any reference here to a merely ethical resurrection (Cocceius) is wholly out of the question.” One of the basic meanings of the word e‧xa‧na′sta‧sis is getting up from bed in the morning; thus it can well represent a resurrection occurring early, otherwise called “the first resurrection.” Rotherham’s translation of Philippians 3:11 reads: “If by any means I may advance to the earlier resurrection which is from among the dead.”

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 02:30 PM

Time of the earthly resurrection. We note that this judgment is placed in the Bible in the account of events occurring during Christ’s Thousand Year Reign with his associate kings and priests. These, the apostle Paul said, “will judge the world.” (1Co 6:2) “The great and the small,” persons from all walks of life, will be there, to be judged impartially. They are “judged out of those things written in the scrolls” that will be opened then. This could not mean the record of their past lives nor a set of rules that judges them on the basis of their past lives. For since “the wages sin pays is death,” these by their death have received the wages of their sin in the past. (Ro 6:7,*23) Now they are resurrected that they might demonstrate their attitude toward God and whether they wish to take hold of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ that was given for all. (Mt 20:28; Joh 3:16) Though their past sins are not accounted to them, they need the ransom to lift them up to perfection. They must make their minds over from their former way of life and thought in harmony with God’s will and regulations for the earth and its population. Accordingly, “the scrolls” evidently set forth the will and law of God for them during that Judgment Day, their faith and their obedience to these things being the basis for judgment and for writing their names indelibly, at last, into “the scroll of life

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 02:37 PM

Go comment on a few of the other topics, you're starting to look like nothing more than a spammer with a cause, a link here and there is fine but we don't need the enitre Yahweh's witnesses library posted here.

Undies

05-07-2011, 02:39 PM

The Gospel According to Carl?

Zathras

05-07-2011, 03:15 PM

abstain from blood. The early Christians were tempted with blood filled sausages. Human and animal. There are blood alternatives which jw use. jw use blood fragments too

Witnesses are told that the use of fractions such as albumin, immunoglobulins and hemophiliac preparations are "not absolutely prohibited" and a matter of personal choice.[3] Although accepted by the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses, a minority does not endorse this doctrine.[5

And this is what everyone sees when you cut-n-paste walls of text scripture instead of speaking for yourself like any normal person would...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITeuaqcpckc

tetrispro

05-07-2011, 03:38 PM

I dont use a private interpretation. The JW believe the Bible is the word of God and the answers should come from the Bible

Zathras

05-07-2011, 04:02 PM

I dont use a private interpretation. The JW believe the Bible is the word of God and the answers should come from the Bible

Yes you do...you read the bible and make it fit the way you want in any situation. That's interpetation to me. You have no independent thought...all answers do not come from one source and to believe so is ignorant in the extreme.

And that is a lie. To explain how scripture relates to actual, real life events you interpret how they relate.

We also use secular history to prove Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. Prophecy is history written in advance.

Both of which require you to interpret scripture to show that a prophecy has happened.

Here is the definition of the word interpret from Dictionary.com

in·ter·pret - [in-tur-prit]

–verb (used with object)
1. to give or provide the meaning of; explain; explicate; elucidate: to interpret the hidden meaning of a parable.
2. to construe or understand in a particular way: to interpret a reply as favorable.
3. to bring out the meaning of (a dramatic work, music, etc.) by performance or execution.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/interpret

Rockntractor

05-07-2011, 11:53 PM

And people say Scientologitsts are crazy... guys like this one prove Christians got there first!

Jehovah's witnesses don't claim Christianity.

fettpett

05-08-2011, 09:30 AM

Jehovah's witnesses don't claim Christianity.

why would willbuurr care? anything that has anything to do with religion in any format other than his precious Commie anti-theistic religion is crazy

FlaGator

05-08-2011, 01:04 PM

Food for thought

New World Translation Bible - Is it Credible?
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the New World Translation (NWT) Bible is the “work of competent scholars.” Conversely, they contend that other Bible translations are corrupted by religious traditions that are rooted in paganism. In reality, the NWT is the work of a Bible Translation Committee with no working knowledge of biblical languages. Their bias is so blatant that Dr Bruce Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton, not only characterized the NWT as a “frightful mistranslation” but as “erroneous,” “pernicious,” and “reprehensible.”

New World Translation Bible -Deity of Jesus Christ
First, the NWT mistranslates the Greek Scriptures in order to expunge the deity of Jesus Christ. Against all credible scholarship, Jesus is downgraded from God to “a” god in John 1 and demoted from the Creator of all things to a mere creature who created all other things in Colossians 1. According to the translation committee of the Watchtower Society, Jesus was created by God as the archangel Michael, during his earthly sojourn was merely human, and after his crucifixion was re-created an immaterial spirit creature.

Here thing here at All About Cults (http://www.allaboutcults.org/new-world-translation-bible.htm)

Zathras

05-08-2011, 03:14 PM

Food for thought

Here thing here at All About Cults (http://www.allaboutcults.org/new-world-translation-bible.htm)

But...but...but I thought the Bible couldn't be interpreted privately????

At least that's what our scripture spammer says.

noonwitch

05-09-2011, 09:40 AM

Food for thought

Here thing here at All About Cults (http://www.allaboutcults.org/new-world-translation-bible.htm)

I mistrust any group that claims their publisher's Bible interpretation is the only true one.

tetrispro

05-09-2011, 05:45 PM

Food for thought

Here thing here at All About Cults (http://www.allaboutcults.org/new-world-translation-bible.htm)

Read Colossians. The prehuman Jesus DID creat all things, but BEFORE Jesus created all things, he himself was created by his Father Jehovah

The Father Jehovah has NO beginning but the prehuman Jesus had a beginning. That is why Jesus was begotten in heaven (before he came to earth) by his Father Jehovah before anything else was created. Jesus was known as Michael the Archangel before he came to the earth and after he left the earth. Jesus was his human name. His divine title is Michael. With an archangel's voice (how could Jesus have an archangel's voice if he is not the archangel Michael) and with God's trumpet and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

tetrispro

05-09-2011, 05:49 PM

Colossians 1:15 – Did Jesus Have a Beginning?
[Translate]
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He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. — Colossians 1:15

One claims that Colossians 1:15-20 makes no sense except in the context that there is a trinity. And, yet, in order to get the trinity doctrine into the the verses, one has use the great human spirit of imagination, assumptions based on what is imagined, add those assumptions to, and read those assumptions into, the passage being discussed.

We should note first that “God” is used unipersonally in the phrase “image of the invisible God.” The word “God” is referring, not to three persons, but to one person. The context shows that the word “God” is being used to denote the one person, “God, the Father of our Lord Jesus.” (Colossians 1:13) Again, Colossians 3:1, we read that Jesus sits at the right hand of “God”, and it should be apparent that “God” is there unipersonal, not tripersonal. “God” refers to one person, the God and Father of Jesus. (Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3) All through the New Testament, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is always presented as the one person: the God and Father of Jesus. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is never, not even once, ever presented as more than one person.

So what the trinitarian has to do is use his spirit of human imagination so as to imagine that “God” refers to the assumed first person of the trinitarian assumptions. Then they have further use his spirit of human imagination to image that “He,” which refers to Jesus, means the imagined second person of the trinitarian assumptions. And thus, in this manner the trinitarian assumptions are added to, and read into, what Paul wrote. In reality, the phrase “image of God” shows that Jesus is not the

The scriptures are quite plain on the fact that Jesus came into existence through a creative act of God. This can be clearly seen from Colossians 1:15, in speaking of Jesus: “who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation”.

Two things in this verse show that Jesus had a beginning and that he was created.

First, its structure shows that he came into living existence by a creative act. The rule of Greek grammar on the partitive genitive proves this, because the construction, “firstborn of every creature [or all creation]“, is in Greek grammar called the partitive genitive, that is, the genitive which contains as a part of its contents the thing or things mentioned in the noun that governs the genitive. The expression, “the firstborn of every creature,” being in the Greek a partitive genitive, it includes as a part of itself the thing implied in the noun that governs it, that being “firstborn.” Therefore, it implies that the firstborn one is a part of creation and, accordingly, was created and thus had a beginning.

Additionally, Jesus’ being called “firstborn” of every creature, or of all creation, proves that he came into existence by a creative act, even as those who are the afterborn of creation came into existence by a creative act. Being born of God as the first of the creation spoken of, he is not Yahweh the Almighty who gave this birth to him.

Some claim that his scripture teaches that Christ is over all creation; the ruler of all creation, and thus that Jesus is apart from the class of created beings.

The word “firstborn” is always used in either of two settings: as being the firstborn offspring of a father (as in Genesis 25:13), or as being part of the group being spoken of. Nevertheless even when used as the firstborn offspring of a father, it is still the group of children that the offspring of the father that the firstborn is a member of. For instance, In Exodus 11:5 we find: “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of the group that would make up Pharaoh’s offspring. Still, since Colossians 1:15 is definitely not saying that Jesus is the offspring of creation, making the creation the father, the other alternative is that Jesus is definitely included as part of the creation of which he is firstborn. In no case does “firstborn” mean that the firstborn did not have a beginning, or that the firstborn is not included in the group of which he is firstborn.

tetrispro

05-09-2011, 05:56 PM

http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/michael.htm

The Protestants and Catholics are wrong about Jesus. The so-called Church is an instrument of Satan to deceive people. Because Satan corrupted Christianity. The JW restores cHRISTIANITY TO THE PURE AND SIMPLE TEACHINGS OF cHRIST

jESUS SAID HIS TRUE FOLLOWERS WOULD BE OBJECTS OF HATRED AND SPOKEN AGAINST (aPOSTLE pAUL) Anyone who disagrees with the so-called Church is labelled as a CULT (spoken against) That is how Satan operates.

tetrispro

05-09-2011, 06:02 PM

Food for thought

Here thing here at All About Cults (http://www.allaboutcults.org/new-world-translation-bible.htm)

That CULT label is Satan's way of decieving people. There is NO such thing as a cult. The word cult comes from the Latin word cultus which means worship

http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/michael.htm

The Protestants and Catholics are wrong about Jesus. The so-called Church is an instrument of Satan to deceive people. Because Satan corrupted Christianity.Google "Council of Nicaea 325 AD" The JW restores Christianity to the pure and simple teachings of Christ."

JESUS SAID HIS TRUE FOLLOWERS WOULD BE OBJECTS OF HATRED AND SPOKEN AGAINST (Apostle Paul) Anyone who disagrees with the so-called Church is labelled as a CULT (spoken against) That is how Satan operates.

tetrispro

05-09-2011, 06:16 PM

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/trinity.htm

tetrispro

05-09-2011, 06:18 PM

Arianism is the name given to an anti-Trinitarian belief system taught by Arius, an elder in the Alexandrian church, in the early fourth century AD. Arius affirmed the uniqueness of God and denied the complete divinity of the Son (Christ). He taught instead that Christ was a created and changeable being, who, while superior to humans, is not of the same order as the one God.

Arius and Arianism were condemned at the famous Council of Nicea in 325 AD, which proclaimed that the Son was of "the same substance" as the Father. After Constantine's death, however, Arianism flourished again for some decades and almost overcame the Nicene party. Arianism was finally condemned at the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD.

JW believe Arius was right and the so-called Church is WRONG. Jesus was known as Michael before Jehovah God transferred his life into the womb of the virgin girl Mary. His life was transferred from the spirit realm into the earthly realm through the womb of Mary. The prehuman Michael came to the earth through the womb of MAry And was born as a human child, Jesus. Jesus name was NOT mentioned before the book of Matthew. He is not referred to as Jesus in the so-called old testament. He is also referred to as the angel of God (Judges 6:11, 21, 22, 23)

tetrispro

05-09-2011, 06:27 PM

Usually it's just a case of popularity. A "cult" is a label thrown on some minority religious group that the status quo doesn't like.

The Bible says that the whole world has been deceived.(The whole world includes so-called Christianity) Revelation 12

Rockntractor

05-09-2011, 10:00 PM

How do you feel about the cross?

Zathras

05-09-2011, 11:45 PM

Ok...I'm done with this one trick pony.

FlaGator

05-10-2011, 09:41 AM

But...but...but I thought the Bible couldn't be interpreted privately????

At least that's what our scripture spammer says.

It this case, it was translated in such a manner as to support the pre-existing beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Translation and interpretation are different things.

FlaGator

05-10-2011, 09:42 AM

Read Colossians. The prehuman Jesus DID creat all things, but BEFORE Jesus created all things, he himself was created by his Father Jehovah

The Father Jehovah has NO beginning but the prehuman Jesus had a beginning. That is why Jesus was begotten in heaven (before he came to earth) by his Father Jehovah before anything else was created. Jesus was known as Michael the Archangel before he came to the earth and after he left the earth. Jesus was his human name. His divine title is Michael. With an archangel's voice (how could Jesus have an archangel's voice if he is not the archangel Michael) and with God's trumpet and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

Read John Chapter 1 and be content.

FlaGator

05-10-2011, 09:44 AM

More food for thought

http://www.tmoments.com/jehovah_witness_the_cult.htm

Rockntractor

05-10-2011, 10:41 AM

Ok...I'm done with this one trick pony.

He needs to branch out and comment on other topics, so far all I'm seeing is watchtower magazine spammer.
There is nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs, but if your only purpose is to reprint the watch tower magazine here I don't think that is a discussion anymore.
Look at the index, pick out another topic, and comment on it Mr.Tetris, I know you have another life and interests because like I said earlier, I worked with a guy for several years that was JW, he had a great sense of humor and was fun to talk to. I don't think God put us here to discuss nothing but how it would all end.

Zathras

05-10-2011, 12:58 PM

He needs to branch out and comment on other topics, so far all I'm seeing is watchtower magazine spammer.
There is nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs, but if your only purpose is to reprint the watch tower magazine here I don't think that is a discussion anymore.
Look at the index, pick out another topic, and comment on it Mr.Tetris, I know you have another life and interests because like I said earlier, I worked with a guy for several years that was JW, he had a great sense of humor and was fun to talk to. I don't think God put us here to discuss nothing but how it would all end.

I would have no problem if he did branch out but, from the looks of it, he's here on a recruiting drive for the JW and doesn't want to participate in any other discussions. You've warned him twice now to participate in other threads and he has ignored you both times. Time to show him the door if he doesn't branch out to other threads IMO.

OK, Tetris. I'll bite. When I worked on the road selling life insurance, I ran acros a Jehovah's Witness to spoke at length about what you believe. 144,000 are going to heaven, right? The rest will live on an earthly paradise, right? Hell is the grave, so there's no eternal suferring, right? Why even bother then? Why not just go out and do whatever you want?

You people are the polar opposite of an atheist. There is no sound reason to follow religious scripture if you're right. For an atheist, we just blink out, and for you, we all get rewarded by paradise anyway.

One more question, do you vote, observe Independence Day, pledge allegence to the flag, observe ANY holiday, or have any dealings with the government?