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kydex armoring question

I have a question for Date-dono and others who have worked with kydex. I have found a convient local source for purchacing sheet kydex, and have intention of

Message 1 of 6
, Mar 4 12:48 AM

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I have a question for Date-dono and others who have worked with kydex. I
have found a convient local source for purchacing sheet kydex, and have
intention of building my armor SOON. my plans arte to make a Go-Mai Mogami
Haramaki Do and matching Sode. I am presently requesting samples of lace
from the various companies people have listed here in recent posts, and
will be getting my materials together as soon as they arive, but I need to
know a couple things.

First and perhapse mosty importantly: How thick should the Kydex (tm) be? I
will be using actual kydex, not ABS (which a number of people call kydex),
nor chemical barrel (which suffers the same misidentification of ABS) I
have been given a bit of general information on tooling and thermoforming
the kydex from the suplier, but found a lot more detailed info on
www.kydex.com which is kleerdex's website. Nothing on thier site mentions
"if your going to be wearing this stuff while someone bearts on you with
ratan use this thickness of this formula"... imagine that.

the sales man at the supplier was reccomending 1/8" sheet, but it was clear
he didn't know much about SCA combat as he had only seen a local fighter
practice on one occasion, and thought said sheet would also be good for my
kabuto...

second, I imagine that those who have worked with the stuff have at some
point used the "bake ity at 350" method (well o.k. it actualy needs to be
between 380 and 390 but not over 400 (picky picky the stuff can be.)... did
you have any problems with melting portions of it which where in contact
with whatever metal container you used to suport it in the oven, or did you
use an alternative method? (I know using a heat gun is an option, but it
sounds like more time consuming and less even method of heating the plates.

third, what would you reccomend for shaping of the plates? (as in molding
thier curvature in)

fourth: do I recall past conversations on the list that commented that
using a punch while more percise than a drill has a binding problem in
plastics? what form of a punch are you talking about using? (hollow or
solid) or if a drill is prefered (yes I have access to a drill press, band
saw, table saw, radial arm saw, etc at a friends work shop... just not good
metal working tools beyond a sawz all) I am reading in the pamplet that the
supplier gave me "Kydex can be drilled with a standard metal cutting drill.
The drill should be aloud to fead itself and not be forced into the
material. modified drills dubbed off to zero rake angles are prefered" now
the only place I know rake angles from is motorcycles where it indicates
the angle of the steering neck... and it has something to do with saw
blades that I am forgetting the details of at the moment, but how is it
aplicable to drill bits, and what would I have to modify to achieve this?

for cutting curved sections, they recomend a straight flute router bit or
band saw (both of which I have), but I was wondering if I can find the
right size router bit would that work as an alternate to the drill bit? I
know they can be used for such a purpose in wood, so I see no reason other
than melting that it would not be usable for kydex.

finaly does anyone have any experience with painting kydex? the website has
some info on it, but I checked with several local suppliers and was not
able to find the paints they reccomended... (I figure even if the paint
isn't available in the color I want, it should be able to serve as a primer
to which my prefered colors might adhear)... unfortunatly if I can not find
a suitable base paint which will adhear to the kydex, I may have a problem.
my suppliuer can not get it in the color I want, and the only options that
come close to any documented color is black and brick red... (neither of
which appeal to my lack of desire to be roasted in my armor in the
excessivly hot southern sun)

any help/info is greatly apreciated

Yoshimasa

kegage

I don t have a lot of experience with kydex in general, but on the painting question I may be able to help. Krylon has recently come out with a spray paint

Message 2 of 6
, Mar 4 1:20 AM

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I don't have a lot of experience with kydex in general, but on the
painting question I may be able to help. Krylon has recently come out
with a spray paint called "Fusion" which is supposed to molecularly
bond with the surface of the plastic effectively changing the actual
color of the plastic (unless you choose to paint it the same color it
is when manufactured).

> finaly does anyone have any experience with painting kydex? the
website has
> some info on it, but I checked with several local suppliers and was not
> able to find the paints they reccomended... (I figure even if the paint
> isn't available in the color I want, it should be able to serve as a
primer
> to which my prefered colors might adhear)... unfortunatly if I can
not find
> a suitable base paint which will adhear to the kydex, I may have a
problem.
> my suppliuer can not get it in the color I want, and the only
options that
> come close to any documented color is black and brick red...
(neither of
> which appeal to my lack of desire to be roasted in my armor in the
> excessivly hot southern sun)
>
> any help/info is greatly apreciated
>
> Yoshimasa

Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie

Yoshimasu-dono, Konnichi wa, tomodachi. Finally - a chance to work with a man of few words!!! :-) It seems you have done a fair amount of research and are on

Message 3 of 6
, Mar 4 5:50 AM

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Yoshimasu-dono,
Konnichi wa, tomodachi.
Finally - a chance to work with a man of few words!!! :-)
It seems you have done a fair amount of research and are on
your way - I will respond off list to you about the questions you
have asked so we don't clog other's e-mails and bandwidth...

Date Saburou Yukiie
Yama Kaminari Ryu

> Yoshimasa

Marko Peussa

Sorry, don t really know about Kydex, but, Whatever you do, ask for some free samples of different thickness and try them out first. It s a good plan to

Message 4 of 6
, Mar 5 12:32 AM

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Sorry, don't really know about Kydex, but,

Whatever you do, ask for some free samples of different thickness and
try them out first. It's a good plan to practice with smaller pieces
to find out how they handle in your specific application.

Try out what is the temperature and time needed in your convection
oven for the pieces to soften. See if they tend to stick on the
support surface, in that case use some ordinary teflon coated baking
paper. Find out which kind of gloves you need to handle the pieces,
and how fast they cool down and get stiff again. Test if you need to
hold the pieces in place when they are cooling. See if there is a
need for wooden or steel plate forms for cooling.

Try to find out the oven temperature and time which is needed to get
the pieces just a little bit soft. At this temperature you can bend
them and they will keep shape after cooling. I use this temp to curve
the plates in one direction, or to fit the plate curvature to my body.

Try to find out the second temperature and time to make the pieces
floppy. At this temperature one can make cup-like shapes by suitable
shaping aids. Or, it is possible to make patterns to the plastic
surface. Having the pieces in this temperature will reset and remove
any previous shapes. This is great if you need to make rework.

I have been able to do something like kiritsuke zane to ABS plates,
and I can just say that this way of working will greatly reduce the
time needed to make a 'fake' lamellar for SCA combat.

I have a Mongol 'fake' lamellar coming up. For a photo of the shaped
back and shoulder plates, please have a look at:

There are a couple of stainless steel forms in the photo, too. I
shaped these to my body first, and then bent the plastics on the
forms by hand.

Regards,

Klaus

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Matt L <mattlew@b...> wrote:
> I have a question for Date-dono and others who have worked with
kydex. I
> have found a convient local source for purchacing sheet kydex, and
have
> intention of building my armor SOON. my plans arte to make a Go-Mai
Mogami
> Haramaki Do and matching Sode. I am presently requesting samples of
lace
> from the various companies people have listed here in recent posts,
and
> will be getting my materials together as soon as they arive, but I
need to
> know a couple things.
>
> First and perhapse mosty importantly: How thick should the Kydex
(tm) be? I
> will be using actual kydex, not ABS (which a number of people call
kydex),
> nor chemical barrel (which suffers the same misidentification of
ABS) I
> have been given a bit of general information on tooling and
thermoforming
> the kydex from the suplier, but found a lot more detailed info on
> www.kydex.com which is kleerdex's website. Nothing on thier site
mentions
> "if your going to be wearing this stuff while someone bearts on you
with
> ratan use this thickness of this formula"... imagine that.
>
> the sales man at the supplier was reccomending 1/8" sheet, but it
was clear
> he didn't know much about SCA combat as he had only seen a local
fighter
> practice on one occasion, and thought said sheet would also be good
for my
> kabuto...
>
> second, I imagine that those who have worked with the stuff have at
some
> point used the "bake ity at 350" method (well o.k. it actualy needs
to be
> between 380 and 390 but not over 400 (picky picky the stuff can
be.)... did
> you have any problems with melting portions of it which where in
contact
> with whatever metal container you used to suport it in the oven, or
did you
> use an alternative method? (I know using a heat gun is an option,
but it
> sounds like more time consuming and less even method of heating the
plates.
>
> third, what would you reccomend for shaping of the plates? (as in
molding
> thier curvature in)
>
> fourth: do I recall past conversations on the list that commented
that
> using a punch while more percise than a drill has a binding problem
in
> plastics? what form of a punch are you talking about using? (hollow
or
> solid) or if a drill is prefered (yes I have access to a drill
press, band
> saw, table saw, radial arm saw, etc at a friends work shop... just
not good
> metal working tools beyond a sawz all) I am reading in the pamplet
that the
> supplier gave me "Kydex can be drilled with a standard metal
cutting drill.
> The drill should be aloud to fead itself and not be forced into the
> material. modified drills dubbed off to zero rake angles are
prefered" now
> the only place I know rake angles from is motorcycles where it
indicates
> the angle of the steering neck... and it has something to do with
saw
> blades that I am forgetting the details of at the moment, but how
is it
> aplicable to drill bits, and what would I have to modify to achieve
this?
>
> for cutting curved sections, they recomend a straight flute router
bit or
> band saw (both of which I have), but I was wondering if I can find
the
> right size router bit would that work as an alternate to the drill
bit? I
> know they can be used for such a purpose in wood, so I see no
reason other
> than melting that it would not be usable for kydex.
>
> finaly does anyone have any experience with painting kydex? the
website has
> some info on it, but I checked with several local suppliers and was
not
> able to find the paints they reccomended... (I figure even if the
paint
> isn't available in the color I want, it should be able to serve as
a primer
> to which my prefered colors might adhear)... unfortunatly if I can
not find
> a suitable base paint which will adhear to the kydex, I may have a
problem.
> my suppliuer can not get it in the color I want, and the only
options that
> come close to any documented color is black and brick red...
(neither of
> which appeal to my lack of desire to be roasted in my armor in the
> excessivly hot southern sun)
>
> any help/info is greatly apreciated
>
> Yoshimasa

Anthony J. Bryant

... Are you insane? Do this HERE. In the group. So that *everyone* can benefit from the exchange. Effingham

Message 5 of 6
, Mar 9 11:13 AM

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Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:

> It seems you have done a fair amount of research and are on
> your way - I will respond off list to you about the questions you
> have asked so we don't clog other's e-mails and bandwidth...

Are you insane?

Do this HERE. In the group. So that *everyone* can benefit from the exchange. <G>

Effingham

Matt L

rest assured effingham-donoI will build a composit of the information and post it to the group... (probably in the files section so I can include the PDF s

Message 6 of 6
, Mar 9 11:34 AM

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rest assured effingham-donoI will build a composit of the information and
post it to the group... (probably in the files section so I can include the
PDF's from kleerdex with the tech data or atleast links directly to the
nessicary info)