I dunno, I have plenty of friends that are super nice but not at all popular with the ladies. But the females seem to love my moron/douche-acquaintances. Just in my personal experience, being nice and/or not a douche has nothing to do with how women react to you. On the other hand, I have no idea what the heck women want or why, and therefore my opinion on the matter really is meaningless.[/quote]

That's probably because those women are extremely insecure. And if the douchey aloof guy pays attention to them, they feel validated. I'm not saying I don't have any insecurities, but I have always gone for nice guys. Consideration is extremely sexy.

A lot of the guys who say "nice guys finish last!" and "girls only want jerks!" follow it either explicitly or implicitly with "I'm the good one she should want" and eventually, after years of bitterness, "I'm glad all her relationships turn out badly, serves her right for not being with me." Just makes me wonder how nice some of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" really area if they turn to petty schadenfreude.

The other nice guys are probably some combination of meek, shy, or otherwise unattractive (nice or not, it's hard to be with somebody who has some annoying or unattractive characteristics). You also won't get girls without expressing interest, so the shy nice-guy is doomed to less success.

NayBoer wrote:A lot of the guys who say "nice guys finish last!" and "girls only want jerks!" follow it either explicitly or implicitly with "I'm the good one she should want" and eventually, after years of bitterness, "I'm glad all her relationships turn out badly, serves her right for not being with me." Just makes me wonder how nice some of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" really area if they turn to petty schadenfreude.

The other nice guys are probably some combination of meek, shy, or otherwise unattractive (nice or not, it's hard to be with somebody who has some annoying or unattractive characteristics). You also won't get girls without expressing interest, so the shy nice-guy is doomed to less success.

Yeah, I mean...are girls really expected to keep trying to chat up the "nice" kid who can't make eye contact? Or a friend who doesn't have the balls to really express an interest and seems to support her in her other relationships?

I dunno, both males and females can definitely be accused of using their friends of the other gender sometimes...but putting it all on girls is silly.

NayBoer wrote:A lot of the guys who say "nice guys finish last!" and "girls only want jerks!" follow it either explicitly or implicitly with "I'm the good one she should want" and eventually, after years of bitterness, "I'm glad all her relationships turn out badly, serves her right for not being with me." Just makes me wonder how nice some of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" really area if they turn to petty schadenfreude.

The other nice guys are probably some combination of meek, shy, or otherwise unattractive (nice or not, it's hard to be with somebody who has some annoying or unattractive characteristics). You also won't get girls without expressing interest, so the shy nice-guy is doomed to less success.

There are three types of nice guys.

Confident nice guys, these guys are many times in long relationship, treat their girlfriends nicely and generally are all around good guys.

There are introverted nice guys, who are all around good guys but are shy. They go a long time between women, but then usually have nice relationships with ugly girls.

Then there is the "Nice Guy" who is cowardly, and also has a high sense of entitlement. They refuse to make a move, pretend to be a friend in order to weasel their way into a girls pants. They are just assholes without any confidence.

Desert Fox wrote:Then there is the "Nice Guy" who is cowardly, and also has a high sense of entitlement. They refuse to make a move, pretend to be a friend in order to weasel their way into a girls pants. They are just assholes without any confidence.

You can be nice without being awkward and unconfident (haha, says ray). I think a lot of the angst stems from the general presumption that the guy is expected to make the move, hence you tend to get more bitter shy guys than bitter shy girls.

Though I kinda wish there was some mechanism for nice shy guys to meet nice shy girls. For obvious reasons, such matchups are hard to get started, lol.

rayiner wrote:You can be nice without being awkward and unconfident (haha, says ray). I think a lot of the angst stems from the general presumption that the guy is expected to make the move, hence you tend to get more bitter shy guys than bitter shy girls.

Though I kinda wish there was some mechanism for nice shy guys to meet nice shy girls. For obvious reasons, such matchups are hard to get started, lol.

Interesting, I am tired of always being the one who has to make the first move. I think women with a little aggression in them is quite sexy. Nothing like your girlfriend grabbing you and ripping ur clothes off. On the other hand it is very unattractive when you have been in a relationship for over 2 years and she still wont make the first move or asks to have sex

rayiner wrote:You can be nice without being awkward and unconfident (haha, says ray). I think a lot of the angst stems from the general presumption that the guy is expected to make the move, hence you tend to get more bitter shy guys than bitter shy girls.

Though I kinda wish there was some mechanism for nice shy guys to meet nice shy girls. For obvious reasons, such matchups are hard to get started, lol.

Interesting, I am tired of always being the one who has to make the first move. I think women with a little aggression in them is quite sexy. Nothing like your girlfriend grabbing you and ripping ur clothes off. On the other hand it is very unattractive when you have been in a relationship for over 2 years and she still wont make the first move or asks to have sex

Different strokes. I'm not a fan of being the more passive one in the relationship.

Yeah, I mean...are girls really expected to keep trying to chat up the "nice" kid who can't make eye contact? Or a friend who doesn't have the balls to really express an interest and seems to support her in her other relationships?

I dunno, both males and females can definitely be accused of using their friends of the other gender sometimes...but putting it all on girls is silly.[/quote]

Very true. Plus, are these nice guys smelly? Because that could hurt their chances.

NayBoer wrote:A lot of the guys who say "nice guys finish last!" and "girls only want jerks!" follow it either explicitly or implicitly with "I'm the good one she should want" and eventually, after years of bitterness, "I'm glad all her relationships turn out badly, serves her right for not being with me." Just makes me wonder how nice some of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" really area if they turn to petty schadenfreude.

The other nice guys are probably some combination of meek, shy, or otherwise unattractive (nice or not, it's hard to be with somebody who has some annoying or unattractive characteristics). You also won't get girls without expressing interest, so the shy nice-guy is doomed to less success.

There are three types of nice guys.

Confident nice guys, these guys are many times in long relationship, treat their girlfriends nicely and generally are all around good guys.

There are introverted nice guys, who are all around good guys but are shy. They go a long time between women, but then usually have nice relationships with ugly girls.

Then there is the "Nice Guy" who is cowardly, and also has a high sense of entitlement. They refuse to make a move, pretend to be a friend in order to weasel their way into a girls pants. They are just assholes without any confidence.

You're forgetting lazy but not bitter nice guys. Such as myself at the moment. I think I sort of cruise somewhere between the "confident nice guy" type and the lazy type.

Edit: I'm probably much more often the lazy type than confident type.

I did know a guy who openly admitted to being the third type of guy you mentioned though...real d-bag...once I got into a little confrontation with him and crashed through a door in his house on my way to splashing him in the face with a beer. Most satisfying drunken moment EVER. Long story short, weasely guys are not nice guys but deserve their doors broken and beers splashed on their faces.

You're forgetting lazy but not bitter nice guys. Such as myself at the moment. I think I sort of cruise somewhere between the "confident nice guy" type and the lazy type.

Edit: I'm probably much more often the lazy type than confident type.

I did know a guy who openly admitted to being the third type of guy you mentioned though...real d-bag...once I got into a little confrontation with him and crashed through a door in his house on my way to splashing him in the face with a beer. Most satisfying drunken moment EVER. Long story short, weasely guys are not nice guys but deserve their doors broken and beers splashed on their faces.[/quote]

NayBoer wrote:A lot of the guys who say "nice guys finish last!" and "girls only want jerks!" follow it either explicitly or implicitly with "I'm the good one she should want" and eventually, after years of bitterness, "I'm glad all her relationships turn out badly, serves her right for not being with me." Just makes me wonder how nice some of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" really area if they turn to petty schadenfreude.

The other nice guys are probably some combination of meek, shy, or otherwise unattractive (nice or not, it's hard to be with somebody who has some annoying or unattractive characteristics). You also won't get girls without expressing interest, so the shy nice-guy is doomed to less success.

There are three types of nice guys.

Confident nice guys, these guys are many times in long relationship, treat their girlfriends nicely and generally are all around good guys.

There are introverted nice guys, who are all around good guys but are shy. They go a long time between women, but then usually have nice relationships with ugly girls.

Then there is the "Nice Guy" who is cowardly, and also has a high sense of entitlement. They refuse to make a move, pretend to be a friend in order to weasel their way into a girls pants. They are just assholes without any confidence.

You're forgetting lazy but not bitter nice guys. Such as myself at the moment. I think I sort of cruise somewhere between the "confident nice guy" type and the lazy type.

Edit: I'm probably much more often the lazy type than confident type.

I did know a guy who openly admitted to being the third type of guy you mentioned though...real d-bag...once I got into a little confrontation with him and crashed through a door in his house on my way to splashing him in the face with a beer. Most satisfying drunken moment EVER. Long story short, weasely guys are not nice guys but deserve their doors broken and beers splashed on their faces.

I love that this thread turned in a different direction.

As for your actions, good job on splashing that guy with beer, I hate those types of guys.

rayiner wrote:You can be nice without being awkward and unconfident (haha, says ray). I think a lot of the angst stems from the general presumption that the guy is expected to make the move, hence you tend to get more bitter shy guys than bitter shy girls.

Though I kinda wish there was some mechanism for nice shy guys to meet nice shy girls. For obvious reasons, such matchups are hard to get started, lol.

Interesting, I am tired of always being the one who has to make the first move. I think women with a little aggression in them is quite sexy. Nothing like your girlfriend grabbing you and ripping ur clothes off. On the other hand it is very unattractive when you have been in a relationship for over 2 years and she still wont make the first move or asks to have sex

i wish women would just chill out and let me make the first move. its a pain in the ass deflecting so much feminine attention all the time.

NayBoer wrote:A lot of the guys who say "nice guys finish last!" and "girls only want jerks!" follow it either explicitly or implicitly with "I'm the good one she should want" and eventually, after years of bitterness, "I'm glad all her relationships turn out badly, serves her right for not being with me." Just makes me wonder how nice some of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" really area if they turn to petty schadenfreude.

The other nice guys are probably some combination of meek, shy, or otherwise unattractive (nice or not, it's hard to be with somebody who has some annoying or unattractive characteristics). You also won't get girls without expressing interest, so the shy nice-guy is doomed to less success.

There are three types of nice guys.

Confident nice guys, these guys are many times in long relationship, treat their girlfriends nicely and generally are all around good guys.

There are introverted nice guys, who are all around good guys but are shy. They go a long time between women, but then usually have nice relationships with ugly girls.

Then there is the "Nice Guy" who is cowardly, and also has a high sense of entitlement. They refuse to make a move, pretend to be a friend in order to weasel their way into a girls pants. They are just assholes without any confidence.

You're forgetting lazy but not bitter nice guys. Such as myself at the moment. I think I sort of cruise somewhere between the "confident nice guy" type and the lazy type.

Edit: I'm probably much more often the lazy type than confident type.

I did know a guy who openly admitted to being the third type of guy you mentioned though...real d-bag...once I got into a little confrontation with him and crashed through a door in his house on my way to splashing him in the face with a beer. Most satisfying drunken moment EVER. Long story short, weasely guys are not nice guys but deserve their doors broken and beers splashed on their faces.

NayBoer wrote:A lot of the guys who say "nice guys finish last!" and "girls only want jerks!" follow it either explicitly or implicitly with "I'm the good one she should want" and eventually, after years of bitterness, "I'm glad all her relationships turn out badly, serves her right for not being with me." Just makes me wonder how nice some of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" really area if they turn to petty schadenfreude.

The other nice guys are probably some combination of meek, shy, or otherwise unattractive (nice or not, it's hard to be with somebody who has some annoying or unattractive characteristics). You also won't get girls without expressing interest, so the shy nice-guy is doomed to less success.

Well said. I find it a bad sign when a guy claims to be a nice guy. Most guys who claim that title aren't actually that nice. Nice is also sometimes code for boring. Like a lot of people are nice and make polite conversation, respectful, etc. but are just as dull as a doorknob.