SurvivingInfidelity.com Forum Archives

Since joining this site as a BS, I have learned alot & been helped tremendously by reading others' stories. There are truly many courageous people here, both WS and BS.
I haven't posted much though because of an attitude that I've encountered here, that I saw again today in another thread. That is, a spouse that cheats as a newlywed has very little chance of changing & we should just cut our losses because we don't already have the time invested. For me, that is incredibly simplistic & unhelpful advice.....bordering on just plain hurtful.
IMHO, all cheating is wrong & indicative of problems, regardless of when in the marriage it occurs. There is no better or worse, all cheating sucks, & the bottom line is whether or not the WS has the true desire to change.
My H cheated from the time we met until I found out, 6 months into the marriage. I have been reluctant at times to post here, for fear of hearing I should just leave him because he was "never faithful", & after all, I didn't have years invested yet. Is our situation really worse or more unsalvagable than say, the H who cheats at 10 years & lies about it for 10 more?
Yes, my H wasn't ready to be married last year but we are now talking about all the things we should have talked about before we married. He has shown me he is remorseful, & wants to make our marriage work & I am giving him a chance to prove it. I actually think we can now create an even better relationship, because every aspect of it has been brought to the table. We're learning to be more open with each other, so that hopefully, in the future we will be able to turn to each other, instead of looking outside. Is this a guarantee against future infidelity? Of course not, but I do think it gives us at least a chance.
If I believe people can change, I have to be willing to give him that chance, whether he cheated on me in the beginning or 20 years down the road. It all depends on their willingness to own their behaviors & do the work. End of vent.

Me- BS
D-day 1/21/13
Trying to reconcile

I can't make you happy, unless I am (Ziggy Marley-True to Myself)

Posts: 30 | Registered: Aug 2013

OK now♀ 14459Member # 14459

Posted: 8:09 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

You make quite few good points but in defense of the policy of recommending divorce [or annulment] with newlywed cheating, its mainly a statistical exercise. Someone who cheats in the rosy idealistic days of early marriage is not a good bet for future fidelity. Doesn't necessarily guarantee they will commit further adultery, just that they are much more likely to do so. All some SI members are saying is that the BS might as well cut his/her losses and move on because logically the WS is a bad risk.

Its more of a hard-headed approach, not only considering love, but also looking at the marriage as a business; conducting your life as contentedly as possible, and rearing a happy family. Naturally, you have a much better chance of success with a mate who doesn't cheat before the ink is dry on the marriage certificate.

Incidentally, the best of luck with your reconciliation. I admire your positive approach.

Posts: 1978 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC

Lonelygirl10♀ 39850Member # 39850

Posted: 8:09 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

I think it depends on the person and the situation. Every situation is different. I'm not even married, and I'm trying to R. Many people have told me to leave.

But, I do think you have a different set of obstacles when you don't have years of faithfulness before the A. I can't base my decision to stay on the fact that my spouse gave me years of love and respect. In some regard, I feel like I'm taking a bigger risk. I've decided to try to believe that he's changing, but I think it's harder because I question who the real him is. People who have been together longer are more able to know who the real person is I think.

30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1398 | Registered: Jul 2013

4everfaithful83♀ 41761Member # 41761

Posted: 8:10 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

I understand your fear in posting and the responses you will get. Just remember that at the end of the day, no one knows your relationship inside and out, like you and your husband. Only you and him will be able to decide if it is worth fighting for. I think most people on here have good intentions in their advice, even if what they say hurts.

Always know if the juice is worth the squeeze...

ME: 32
WBF: 28
Together 8 years
1 doggie
DDay: June 24, 2013
IN R...

Posts: 573 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Pennsylvania

cl131716♀ 40699Member # 40699

Posted: 8:10 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

I believe that was my post. Here is the thing my Wh's last marriage ended due to...you guessed it infidelity. If he wasn't still lying and minimizing I'd say there was hope...but I don't know. I have almost the same timeline as you. He started in our early dating days and continued 6 months or longer into our marriage. You may be able to accept that but I can't. How is your Wh's behavior? Has he admitted everything? Does he shift blame? Accuse you of cheating? Gaslight? Minimize? Or is he remorseful? I believe every person is different and really only you can decide whether or not you believe change can happen. Maybe I'm wrong about WH and I guess that would be good news for the next person. I'm guessing my WH will be fishing for a replacement within days, as he did when we separated, which would prove he still doesn't get it. I'm done living in denial. He is who he is. He's been through three KNOWN affairs and still doesn't get it.

Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma

musiclovingmom♀ 38207Member # 38207

Posted: 8:26 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

Herongirl - I hear what you are saying. I also understand the statistical aspect, but it comes across as so heartless. My H cheated from the beginning of our relationship until he got busted 3 days before our wedding. I married him anyway. We had 1 child together and one on the way and he had developed a stron relationship with my daughter from my first marriage. I was 6 months from dday when I found this site. I posted my story, including background, in JFO and one of the first comments I got was that my H was a serial cheater, would never change and I should leave now. I was angry and hurt and I never started a thread in JFO again. Looking back almost a year later, it still stings, but I've come to understand that people post from their perspective, not ours. Everyone's experience jades them in their responses to others. I remind myself of that every time I see a post that seems heartless or very cut and dry.

On a side note, my H and I are 16 1/2 months from dday and have a much stronger relationship than we ever have. It can be done and I hope all the best for you.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Jan 2013

MairISaoirse♀ 41497Member # 41497

Posted: 8:32 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

I hear you herongirl- as someone not even married yet I get told that I should leave a lot too and just cut my losses.

Just saying if you truly believe there is a chance, that you can both over come this and he can do the work to make sure this never happens again, kudos to you for wanting to try to make it work.

Mad Hatter

Me: 21
Him: 21
Together 2 years
my ONS->1 mo EA abroad

after D-Day BF admitted he had broken NC with EXGF (EA)
D-DAY 11/21/13

In Limbo

Posts: 114 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Kentucky

EasyDoesIt♀ 29514Member # 29514

Posted: 8:43 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

Nothing is impossible. I'm sorry that you feared posting your views because this is a very safe place. Although we disagree with each other at times, the mods will absolutely not tolerate personal attacks of any kind.

That being said, you feared how we would respond because we might disagree with you. And I don't believe that you're completely convinced yourself of your stated position.

I believe you when you say that you and your husband have discussed things that should have been discussed before marriage. I also believe you that you both want your marriage to work, and that he is remorseful.

I think you need to do what you feel is right for you, and I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. Some of us are sour on relationships...understandably so. I know that I am.

We all wish you the very best in your future with your husband and in your personal life aside from your marriage. I think all of us cringe when a new member reveals their pain, all of us cringe when a seasoned member makes a new discovery of betrayal. We tend to protect each other here, and we tend to circle the wagons. We do it because we're maybe a little older and wiser than we were yesterday. Please take that for whatever it's worth.

My personal belief is that it makes more sense to seek counsel from the older, wiser people than it does to seek counsel from those our age or younger. But you do have to make your own choices. And please believe that we will support you no matter what you decide to do in your marriage. Sometimes we're a little overboard because there are things in our own lives which are out of control, and we don't want to see anyone else experience the pain we've gone through.

If you take nothing else from any of us, please hold off on having children for a while. Once kids are added to the picture, the foundation of your decisions will be permanently altered. Hugs. You really are safe here.

Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3724 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia

cayc♀ 21964Member # 21964

Posted: 8:50 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

My H cheated from the time we met until I found out, 6 months into the marriage.

Starting a relationship on a lie is never beneficial. You are lucky you learned of the lie early regardless of the path you chose from here on out. It's always easier to handle knowing what you are dealing with than being lied to, gaslighted, fobbed off etc.

I have been reluctant at times to post here, for fear of hearing ...

In my time on SI, the things that were hardest to hear were the truest. When I came in 2008, I didn't believe a single thing anyone told me. And hence I wasted 4 years thinking I was dealing with an A, but instead it was all false R, and As plural. If I had listened to what people were telling me, it wouldn't have taken me 4 years to see that my xWH was not remorseful, and was not capable of being faithful.

Is our situation really worse or more unsalvagable than say, the H who cheats at 10 years & lies about it for 10 more?

You can't look at it like this. Betrayal is the worst for everyone, regardless of it's form. If you allow yourself to say, "well look at so & so, my situation isn't *that* bad", it'll condition you to accept what actually is unacceptable. Starting a relationship with another person when you have sworn before the state/god that you are forsaking all others is not ok. It doesn't matter when in your relationship it occurs or how often, once is bad enough.

You're here, so your question isn't how bad is it (the A). Instead it's, is he remorseful (actions not words)? Is he a good bet? Has he shown a propensity to lie to cover up whatever (not just affairs but anything)? Can I get past this? Can I trust him? Can I be okay with what happened? Do I want to run the risk that it won't happen again? And so on. These are your questions now, and no one here is trying to answer them for you. They are merely giving you a window into hindsight, knowledge based on years of seeing what usually happens, years of seeing 1000s of other SI members relate their experiences. Stick around long enough and you can't help but see a pattern. You are free to try to buck that pattern. Goodness knows I did.

"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

Posts: 3290 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico

herongirl♀ 40398Member # 40398

Posted: 9:16 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. I knew there were probably more of us out there & I'm glad I found the courage to post.
I have never been one much for statistics, & have led a rather unconventional life. "Statistically unlikely" has never slowed me down. The one statistic that does interest me though, is that a marriage is more likely to survive infidelity if the WS is remorseful & willing to do the work.
To answer cl13176, yes I have accepted it, which is not to say I excused it. If my H was not remorseful, still lying/gaslighting/blameshifting or generally continuing down the same road, yes I would probably not think it was worth trying to R, but fortunately that's not the case. I'm pretty sure I'd feel that way at any point in our relationship. Everyone has their own dealbreakers, regardless of the timeline.
It is heartening to hear of others who have been in my situation & made it through, thanks for the support.
I often come here when I'm having self-doubts/triggering & obviously a bit over-sensitive at times. I understand everyone comes from their own perspective & try not to personalize it too much. Not always successfully.
To EDI, I'm 52, so probably no more kids To cayc, my point was that you can't compare, there is no better or worse regarding cheating. I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out, but that doesn't make mine any less likely to work.

Me- BS
D-day 1/21/13
Trying to reconcile

I can't make you happy, unless I am (Ziggy Marley-True to Myself)

Posts: 30 | Registered: Aug 2013

nowiknow23♀ 33226Member # 33226

Posted: 9:29 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

One of the things you'll read over and over on SI is this - take what you need and leave the rest.

There have been times when someone has posted a response to me that I felt was out of left field or a bit harsh, but one thing I know for sure - they were posting from a place of sincerity. People here want to help. They have good intentions. Doesn't mean you have to like what they have to say or follow their advice.

I will also tell you that those responses that struck me the wrong way? Were often exactly what I needed to read. Even if they were off-base, they made me examine my situation from a different angle and with someone else's lens. I've never found that re-examination to be a wasted effort, even when it didn't change my opinion.

You can call me NIK

“The most difficult times for many of us are the ones we give ourselves.”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 28327 | Registered: Aug 2011

StillLivin♀ 40229Member # 40229

Posted: 9:51 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

I wouldn't tell someone to run just because they were in a new relationship.
I can say, though, that after my experiences, I would definitely run fast and hard and save myself from unnecessary heartache if the WS was unremorseful.
But, you have to look at the whole picture. If the WS is truly remorseful, giving transparency, complete NC with the AP, etc., I would NOT recommend D. But if a WS who also happens to be in a new relationship, when he or she should still be in the honeymoon phase of the relationship is already cheating, not truly remorseful, hasn't been transparent, and continues contact with AP, or suspected contact with AP, AND is a serial cheater from previous relationships, I would definitely advise to quit while ahead.
Most of us have lots of experience and hindsight on our side.
It makes me MAD, I mean boiling MAD when I see the emotional abuse of not only the A, but the lieing, projecting, gaslighting, and blameshifting that some of the BS on here suffer. If I could prevent even 1 person from experiencing years of that shit, I would do my best. If it is a new relationship, and there is no true R, hell yes I would want that BS NOT to go through what some of us endured years of. Take a look at Nature_Girl and SBBs stories. They are survivors, but bet money they would rather have not had to endure half the abuse their Xs put them through.
I truly doubt most of the people here would advise even a new relationship to cut and run if the WS was showing true R. Some, maybe, but most, highly unlikely.
Perhaps, the person advising to cut and run saw signs that you didn't see yet, of the train wreck waiting to happen. Maybe they didn't know how to adequately express this sentiment to you.
I cannot tell you how many times I have just kept my mouth shut, because there was no way to nicely tell someone that they were sticking their head in the sand.
Nobody deserves to be cheated on. If the WS, regardless of how short or long the relationship was going on, is NOT truly R and NOT putting in the effort, then it's time to walk. No it's time to run. But especially if the relationship is short lived, save yourself the heartache.
Love is supposed to be just that LOVE. It isn't supposed to make you cry, it isn't supposed to devastate you. It is supposed to uplift you, and make you each strive to be better for each other.
Love isn't abusive, sneaky, or hurtful.
I put up with almost 3 years of that asswhole treating me like shit, or worse complete indifference. That's 3 years of my life. But we were together almost 10 years. I promise you, if he had treated me even half as bad in the beginning, I would have left his ass 10 years ago after the first sign of cheating. If he had been super fantastic, then cheated, but then remorseful, that's tougher. I was younger and didn't have as much invested. I might have left and I might not have. I do know this from watching a lot of relationships end from infidelity. Most of the WS treated their spouses like gold in the beginning, and it never got better, only worse.
Only you know your whole relationship. Only you can determine if he is worth the hard work of R. Because if you've taken a gander over to the Reconciliation forum, it's no walk in the park.

I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2802 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ

herongirl♀ 40398Member # 40398

Posted: 10:58 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

NIK, I can usually manage to sort out the helpful from the not & have also had moments of realizing an uncomfortable truth about myself or my situation in reading here.
I found SI the day after D-day, & one thing I have learned is that the biggest factor in reconciliation is how remorseful the WS is & how willing/capable they are of doing what's necessary to heal themselves & the marriage, not what type of affair they had, how long it was, etc.
It just strikes me the wrong way to hear people immediately advise running in this situation, as if there is no chance at all. I realize this is just my perception, & because I am painfully aware of the statistics, it brings out my self-doubt & feeling of an extra layer of shame. As if there is a sort of stigma about it. It feels more like a generalization than a statistic
I just wanted to say that it can feel a bit disheartening at times, that's all.
The funny thing is that this has never actually been said to me, but every time I read it in a thread, I wince.

Me- BS
D-day 1/21/13
Trying to reconcile

I can't make you happy, unless I am (Ziggy Marley-True to Myself)

Posts: 30 | Registered: Aug 2013

badmedicine♀ 41692Member # 41692

Posted: 11:35 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013

Hi herongirl,

My WH was having an affair that started soon after we got engaged and continued through almost 2.5 years of marriage (so 3.5 years total). I am so sorry you are here and having these experiences instead of newlywed experiences I've heard about. Our situations are somewhat different since my marriage is longer and therefore had time to have major problems but I wanted to give you a little encouragement.

First of all, you know a lot of things. You know that your spouse cheated, that he is capable of cheating. You know how it feels to look at him now and you know some of the complicated emotions and thoughts that go through your head. You also know that people will have opinions, strong opinons, on this matter. Knowledge is power!! This is a good thing.

Second, you seem to have a remorseful spouse. This is truly the essential thing for reconciliation in my opinion. True remorse includes empathy. If you are getting that, and actions back up the words, you are light years ahead of me. Something I did was to list all the things I thought I would need for trust to be restored and for us to have a marriage again. Then I grouped them into a time frame (i.e. things that would happen immediately, 1-3 months, 3-6 months, etc) and watched for it to happen. Unfortunately for me after 4ish months I was still having new pain, new betrayals, and lots of sorry/regret but no true empathy or remorse. I filed for divorce and now I'm waiting. I feel certain that my WHs reaction and actions over the last 4 months made this decision. My point is that if you create a list of what you need to see (and share it with your spouse) then you will be able to examine it for progress.

Third, you have time. No one can make this decision for you and no one else has to be in your marriage to your WH. You mentioned you are 52 and so starting a family isn't an issue and I would guess that career/life decisions are a lot different at your stage than mine (I'm 32 and have no kids). This is another good thing in my mind because you don't have extra pressure. Please, take your time. Being angry and upset is no time to make a choice to end your marriage. However, having some accountability with a list, a friend, a therapist, or at least SI will keep you honest with yourself. A wise friend of mine told me recently to listen to the advice of others but to remember that it comes from an imperfect source. People who care about you will try to protect you and spare you pain. These same people will also accept your decisions, even if they disagree at first.

Take care, herongirl. Keep posting, keep going.

"The wishbone will never replace the backbone." -Will Henry
"This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." -Dorothy Parker

Posts: 208 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States

SlowUptake♂ 40484Member # 40484

Posted: 5:01 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013

Hi Herongirl, I'm a WS so I hope you don't mind.

A lot of people (me included) think there are differences that point to the mindset of a WS depending on when the cheating occurred during the marriage.

When I made my marriage vows over thirty years ago, I was sincere at the time.
I had no thought or concept of breaking them.
Tragically decades later, I did.

Your WS on the other hand lied through his teeth while making his vows, in the full knowledge that he had no intention of keeping them.
He had already cheated and was going to continue.

Most people understandably, tend to view this mindset as morally corrupt and beyond salvation.
Sadly experience on SI and statistics agree with this view.
That is why the advice is usually run and save yourself further heartache in the future.

Just something to ponder.YMMV.

The odds are against you, I wish you luck.

Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz

Amazonia♀ 32810Member # 32810

Posted: 5:59 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013

I found out six months into marriage too.

I have never once regretted leaving. Giving me a second chance without him was the best possible gift my POS ex could have ever, ever given me.

Then again, mine wasn't remorseful.

"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 14049 | Registered: Jul 2011

NeverAgain2013♀ 38121Member # 38121

Posted: 6:33 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013

I think to a large extent, those who have said "run!" were probably in the same position of trusting someone who had cheated on them for a long, long time, and were fooled into thinking their spouse had finally 'seen the light' and had turned over a new leaf and they were going to get their happily ever after, after all.

Only to discover a couple years later that their spouse had gone right back to their old cheating ways and the BS had just spent 2 or 5 or 10 years of their lives wasting it on someone who clearly didn't deserve it.

But by then, they've entangled themselves financially with homes, loans, cars, etc. etc. and have had kids together. That changes ALL your options. That's why you'll see people telling you to run while you can - not so much because you 'don't have the time invested with him' as you say in your post. I think these people learned that if they'd run when they had the chance, they wouldn't be in positions where their options are now incredibly limited after having kids and becoming financially entangled up to their eyeballs.

As the others have said, take what you need and leave the rest. However, those who say 'run' are coming from a place of regret for not having done so, but that doesn't make their advice any less valid.

Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 2415 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA

NeverAgain2013♀ 38121Member # 38121

Posted: 6:33 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013

I think to a large extent, those who have said "run!" were probably in the same position of trusting someone who had cheated on them for a long, long time, and were fooled into thinking their spouse had finally 'seen the light' and had turned over a new leaf and they were going to get their happily ever after, after all.

Only to discover a couple years later that their spouse had gone right back to their old cheating ways and the BS had just spent 2 or 5 or 10 years of their lives wasting it on someone who clearly didn't deserve it.

But by then, they've entangled themselves financially with homes, loans, cars, etc. etc. and have had kids together. That changes ALL your options. That's why you'll see people telling you to run while you can - not so much because you 'don't have the time invested with him' as you say in your post. I think these people learned that if they'd run when they had the chance, they wouldn't be in positions where their options are now incredibly limited after having kids and becoming financially entangled up to their eyeballs.

As the others have said, take what you need and leave the rest. However, those who say 'run' are coming from a place of regret for not having done so, but that doesn't make their advice any less valid.

Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 2415 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA

Justgreatnews♂ 41666Member # 41666

Posted: 7:10 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013

I'd say the benefits of a forum like this are mostly for to vent, and gain perspective, not to receive informed, valuable advice.

Really, how could strangers on the internet be considered valid to advise in such an emotional and important area?

Get it off you chest, see how others handle their issues, stroke your self esteem, but make your decisions based on the facts and feelings in your life.

Professional help, or input from trusted advisers should always be considered.

Posts: 261 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States

SlowUptake♂ 40484Member # 40484

Posted: 8:27 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013

I'd say the benefits of a forum like this are mostly for to vent, and gain perspective, not to receive informed, valuable advice.

I disagree. SI can be a great source of informed & valuable advice.

The trick is to discern where the advice is coming from and to filter the emotional perspective.

Is it from a bitter & jaded BS who divorced their unremorseful WS.
Is it from a BS who has successfully reconciled with a remorseful WS.
Is it from WS who hasn't fully 'got it' yet.
Or is the advice from a BS who is at the start of the process and who is full of righteous anger & rage.

Even professionals colour their advice with their own perpective.

Just something to ponder.YMMV.

Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.