If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Making Italy Great Again - Peter Schiff

This week, market watchers around the world are justifiably fixated with the high-stakes, high-drama political developments unfolding in Italy. While a political crisis in the world's 9th largest economy (International Monetary Fund figures, 4/17/1 would normally not be enough to cause an international meltdown, given how thin the global economic ice has become as a result of ever-increasing debt loads, even small disruptions can create systemic problems. But from my perspective, what makes the Italian drama so interesting is that it parallels so precisely developments in the United States. It's amazing that more Americans do not realize, that when looking at Italy, they are looking at a fun house mirror reflection of the United States.

Italy is currently dealing with the results of an election in which populist political forces scored a big victory over the establishment, which they had judged to be both corrupt and ineffective. In other words, the Italians replayed the 2016 Presidential election in the U.S. The big difference is that here the anti-immigrant tendencies of the right and the economic populism of the left were united in one person: Donald Trump. In Italy, those positions are represented by two separate parties that normally would be rivals. But politics can make very strange bedfellows, and the absurdity of the current economic reality has made them partners.

As a result, the top two finishers in their recent election, the left-leaning Five Star Movement and the right-leaning Northern League have cobbled together a contradictory political program that mirrors the Trump agenda. While both parties share nationalist goals to curb immigration and fight for greater autonomy from the European Union, Five Star's secondary policy goal is to lower the (already low) retirement age and institute universal basic income for all citizens, while the Northern League's secondary policy goal is to lower income taxes. In other words, their proposed coalition would look to spend more and tax less. That's the Trump agenda with a little Parmesan cheese on top. Apart from the appointment of a conservative Supreme Court Justice, Trump's major political achievements have been massive government spending increases and tax cuts that have significantly widened the projected budget deficits. The irony is that the governments of Italy and the United States are among the most indebted countries in the world. (2017 IMF figures) And the solutions being proposed by both countries are to go even deeper into debt!

Even in poor soil, backyard grown produce will taste better,
cost less, and be healthier for you.
When I next start my next indoor grow in late August,
I'll include the slow growing alliums (onions, garlic, and leeks),
so by next year I'll be growing every plant that I want
included in a complete homemade healthy garden salad.

Even in poor soil, backyard grown produce will taste better,
cost less, and be healthier for you.
When I next start my next indoor grow in late August,
I'll include the slow growing alliums (onions, garlic, and leeks),
so by next year I'll be growing every plant that I want
included in a complete homemade healthy garden salad.

Just curious, if the worlds financial system goes up in smoke along with everyone's job and there is no groceries to buy even if your one of the lucky ones, what good would a backyard garden be when your neighbors wouldn't have anything to eat after a week or two at most. And if your not one of the lucky ones with a job and income able to pay your electric bill, what can you grow in your basement other than something that requires the dark? I'm for protecting yourself, but how many people want to plant a garden today and how many people are even allowed to plant one with restrictions from their home owners association? How many people do not have a basement? There are far more that can not follow your suggestion than that can even if they would never loose power for a basement garden. I'm just suggesting its a lot of money to invest in something equipment wise for an event you may never need and you can use that money today to build a supply of canned goods that you do use that can last for a substantial period of time for very little with no gambling on equipment you may never use. Think about this the next time your in a crunch to buy food for an approaching hurricane that could knock your power out for days, even weeks. Assuming you have childen and milk is a must have in your house, it doesn't last very long once your power goes out. Well don't grab the regular milk on the shelf, grab the more expensive but looks the same, only the label says ultra-pasteurized instead of simply pasteurized. The difference is in the label, it has a shelf life of months intstead of a number of days, plus it says to refrigerate after opening. So when everyone one else is grabbing the bargain priced milk, spend the little extra and make sure your milk will be good for the duration. Nothing like keeping as normal as possible when your surrounded with a mess and you have children to keep happy or your sugar craving and coco puffs suck trying to eat dry.

As far as the Italians, I thought he was simply pointing out their desire to resort back to the old days of a more gradual way of inflating their currency versus trying to live under EU guidelines. Nothing different than many other nations have been trying to cope with. I have been predicting that the EU could not survive long term with these conditions. Its been slowly unraveling at the expense of investors and that can't last forever. Not that those nations can't last, but they can't keep supporting them in the EU structure. Sooner or later its going to have to either break up or drop some members from the currency system. Time will tell, it always does and things have a way of working out different than anyone expected.

Last edited by valerb; 3rd June 2018 at 16:02.

I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

Just curious, if the worlds financial system goes up in smoke along with everyone's job and there is no groceries to buy even if your one of the lucky ones, what good would a backyard garden be when your neighbors wouldn't have anything to eat after a week or two at most. And if your not one of the lucky ones with a job and income able to pay your electric bill, what can you grow in your basement other than something that requires the dark? I'm for protecting yourself, but how many people want to plant a garden today and how many people are even allowed to plant one with restrictions from their home owners association? How many people do not have a basement? There are far more that can not follow your suggestion than that can even if they would never loose power for a basement garden. I'm just suggesting its a lot of money to invest in something equipment wise for an event you may never need and you can use that money today to build a supply of canned goods that you do use that can last for a substantial period of time for very little with no gambling on equipment you may never use. Think about this the next time your in a crunch to buy food for an approaching hurricane that could knock your power out for days, even weeks. Assuming you have childen and milk is a must have in your house, it doesn't last very long once your power goes out. Well don't grab the regular milk on the shelf, grab the more expensive but looks the same, only the label says ultra-pasteurized instead of simply pasteurized. The difference is in the label, it has a shelf life of months intstead of a number of days, plus it says to refrigerate after opening. So when everyone one else is grabbing the bargain priced milk, spend the little extra and make sure your milk will be good for the duration. Nothing like keeping as normal as possible when your surrounded with a mess and you have children to keep happy or your sugar craving and coco puffs suck trying to eat dry.

As far as the Italians, I thought he was simply pointing out their desire to resort back to the old days of a more gradual way of inflating their currency versus trying to live under EU guidelines. Nothing different than many other nations have been trying to cope with. I have been predicting that the EU could not survive long term with these conditions. Its been slowly unraveling at the expense of investors and that can't last forever. Not that those nations can't last, but they can't keep supporting them in the EU structure. Sooner or later its going to have to either break up or drop some members from the currency system. Time will tell, it always does and things have a way of working out different than anyone expected.

1) Some of my neighbors are preppers. (we have guns and will stick together against the others stupid and hungry)
2) If the food prices go high here, like they are on the coasts, the produce I grow will supplement my diet. (I'll use my dehydrator and fermentation jars)
3) LEDs don't take much power. I should be able to rig survival grow lights using solar power panels and batteries in multiples of 12 V.

Some of us are self directed and some like you need to be told what to do.
When the government thugs stay hove to protect their family,
THEN I'll start growing cannabis for food, fuel, fiber, and to get high.
I suggest that you learn to grow you own.

We'll get by and if the federal government dies, then possibly America can become great.

"I foresee little future in 'the price of silver', I see a huge future for 'the price in silver'." - heartbone"The truth is called hate by those who hate the truth." - K

1) Some of my neighbors are preppers. (we have guns and will stick together against the others stupid and hungry)
2) If the food prices go high here, like they are on the coasts, the produce I grow will supplement my diet. (I'll use my dehydrator and fermentation jars)
3) LEDs don't take much power. I should be able to rig survival grow lights using solar power panels and batteries in multiples of 12 V.

Some of us are self directed and some like you need to be told what to do.
When the government thugs stay hove to protect their family,
THEN I'll start growing cannabis for food, fuel, fiber, and to get high.
I suggest that you learn to grow you own.

We'll get by and if the federal government dies, then possibly America can become great.

You forgot to end that last line with Allahu Akbar!!!

So your going to rig LED grow lights in your basement that will run off 12 volt batteries and grow what.

Have you really thought through any of this yourself???

Those grow lights are rated at 45 watts and cover 6 to 7 square feet, so your going to need many of them if your going to do any serious growing in your basement.

Then those batteries your looking at are rated for 84 watts each of total power.

Each grow light needs to be on for 12 to 16 hours a day depending on what item your growing, so that's 540 to 720 watts each per day.

Now I know you plan on buying 10 watt solar panels and if each one could possibly be 100% efficient and facing the sun for the entire 12 to 16 hours, they could produce 120 - 160 watts max.

So you would need numerous solar panels to feed just one grow light, but it doesn't end right there as you picked a grow light that uses AC current and that will require your power to be converted from DC to AC which is only 75% efficient.

Then the battery you want to buy is only rated at 84 watts total, but using it in an AC system like this, it becomes a 63 watt battery for all intent and purposes.

So how many 10 watt solar panels and how many 84 watt batteries do you intend to buy for each grow light which only covers 6 to 7 square feet.

Do you realize how many croup cycles you will need to pay for all that material versus simply using that money to store the food today and rotating it into your life style.

But if your going to do it, do it right and stop thinking in the terms of powering an erector set and face reality with what your actual power needs might be.

Last edited by valerb; 8th June 2018 at 01:40.

I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

So your going to rig LED grow lights in your basement that will run off 12 volt batteries and grow what.

Have you really thought through any of this yourself???

Those grow lights are rated at 45 watts and cover 6 to 7 square feet, so your going to need many of them if your going to do any serious growing in your basement.

Then those batteries your looking at are rated for 84 watts each of total power.

Each grow light needs to be on for 12 to 16 hours a day depending on what item your growing, so that's 540 to 720 watts each per day.

Now I know you plan on buying 10 watt solar panels and if each one could possibly be 100% efficient and facing the sun for the entire 12 to 16 hours, they could produce 120 - 160 watts max.

So you would need numerous solar panels to feed just one grow light, but it doesn't end right there as you picked a grow light that uses AC current and that will require your power to be converted from DC to AC which is only 75% efficient.

Then the battery you want to buy is only rated at 84 watts total, but using it in an AC system like this, it becomes a 63 watt battery for all intent and purposes.

So how many 10 watt solar panels and how many 84 watt batteries do you intend to buy for each grow light which only covers 6 to 7 square feet.

Do you realize how many croup cycles you will need to pay for all that material versus simply using that money to store the food today and rotating it into your life style.

But if your going to do it, do it right and stop thinking in the terms of powering an erector set and face reality with what your actual power needs might be.

As usual Vale, your 'analysis' is very flawed.
20W panel
DC is not AC.

"I foresee little future in 'the price of silver', I see a huge future for 'the price in silver'." - heartbone"The truth is called hate by those who hate the truth." - K

As usual Vale, your 'analysis' is very flawed.
20W panel
DC is not AC.

Whoops, you got me there, one of the two grow lights does run on DC. However that panel is only a 20 watt panel and appears to be designed for small plants and seedlings. That only makes it run 25% more efficient than the other one and you still have a huge problem with the number of 10 watt solar panels and extremely low power output backup batteries. I'm using the information you are suggesting to purchase for your basement. So other than overlooking the right grow light, just where is my analysis flawed??? The numbers don't lie, ohms law hasn't changed that I know of, but then I'm not an electrical engineer like you are. Maybe you know something I'm not aware of in science.
Of course we know you can't really get anywhere near the power out of each of those solar panels in reality. So please enlighten us just how this grow system will work without city power and how many panels and batteries will it take to make it work through thick and thin weather conditions. And how many grow panels are you planning to support on this solar system. Shows us some real magic, something we can believe in, not just that he's wrong, prove it and be convincing.

Last edited by valerb; 8th June 2018 at 13:15.

I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

Whoops, you got me there, one of the two grow lights does run on DC. However that panel is only a 20 watt panel and appears to be designed for small plants and seedlings. That only makes it run 25% more efficient than the other one and you still have a huge problem with the number of 10 watt solar panels and extremely low power output backup batteries. I'm using the information you are suggesting to purchase for your basement. So other than overlooking the right grow light, just where is my analysis flawed??? The numbers don't lie, ohms law hasn't changed that I know of, but then I'm not an electrical engineer like you are. Maybe you know something I'm not aware of in science.
Of course we know you can't really get anywhere near the power out of each of those solar panels in reality. So please enlighten us just how this grow system will work without city power and how many panels and batteries will it take to make it work through thick and thin weather conditions. And how many grow panels are you planning to support on this solar system. Shows us some real magic, something we can believe in, not just that he's wrong, prove it and be convincing.

With that negative anti progress mindset, it must be difficult to accomplish anything.

A 12 Volt 7 Amp 20 Hour battery can provide 84 Watts of power for 20 hours
We can call this amount of available power in the charged battery 1.68 kWh.
I'll need two of them to get to the 24 V DC, so there will be 3.36 kWh available from a fully charged set of two.

Each set of LED panels if on for 24 hours daily, would consume 0.480 kWh.
A set of two charged batteries could power a single set of panels for 3360/480 days. A week.
A set of two charged batteries could power 4 panels for 3360/480/4 days. 42 hours.

The only issue would be how many solar panels would be needed to charge each battery.
Not too many for daily use, but for those times when the sun goes away for a week,
and the batteries get depleted I'll need to sustain a higher charging rate.

Vale, stick with what you know, addition and subtraction, and leave the details to the adults,
because the multiplication and division is over your pointy little head.

"I foresee little future in 'the price of silver', I see a huge future for 'the price in silver'." - heartbone"The truth is called hate by those who hate the truth." - K