Tivo... you seem to be defending your views dening other's opinions. In the meantime your views are lost. please advise

That's precisely the point. There are no opinions in this regard. To be scientific you have to be atheistic, period. In your private life, you can believe whatever nonsense you want, though I strongly advise against it.

Everyone's entitle to their opinion, is like saying you're allowed to be as stupid as you possibly can be, and in America, that's a way of life.

Quoting DONTFITMOLD:

Tivo... you seem to be defending your views dening other's opinions. In the meantime your views are lost. please advise

That's precisely the point. There are no opinions in this regard. To be scientific you have to be atheistic, period. In your private life, you can believe whatever nonsense you want, though I strongly advise against it.

Everyone's entitle to their opinion, is like saying you're allowed to be as stupid as you possibly can be, and in America, that's a way of life.

I'm glad you're very good at cherrypicking your data. I mean, if you really want to know, Einstein was a pantheist no matter what he said. Basically, you're picking which people to listen to, and also don't seem to mind that scientists tend not to have a personal God that they pray to and expect supernatural intervention like much of regular Christians.

Quoting 3345roc:

I'll stick with these guys.

“The question of whether there exists a Creator and Ruler of the Universe has been answered in the affirmative by some of the highest intellects that have ever existed.”

–Charles Darwin, the founder of evolutionary biology, as cited in his book Descent of Man.

“Another source of conviction in the existence of God, connected with the reason and not with the feelings, impresses me as having much more weight. This follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Theist.”

–Charles Darwin, the founder of evolutionary biology, as quoted in his autobiography.

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

–Albert Einstein

“The more I study science, the more I believe in God.”

–Albert Einstein

“I’m not an atheist, and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.” [Italics are mine]

–Albert Einstein, as cited in Antony Flew’s book, There Is A God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind.

“Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”

–Albert Einstein, from an interview with theSaturday Evening Post

“I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts; the rest are details.”

–Albert Einstein

“Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe–a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”

“In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”

–Albert Einstein

“I believe that the more thoroughly science is studied, the further does it take us from anything comparable to atheism.”

“If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God.”

–Lord William Kelvin, who was noted for his theoretical work on thermodynamics, the concept of absolute zero and the Kelvin temperature scale based upon it.

“Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and everywhere, could produce no variety of things. All that diversity of natural things which we find suited to different times and places could arise from nothing but the ideas and will of a Being, necessarily existing.”

–Sir Isaac Newton, who is widely regarded to have been the greatest scientist of all time, as cited in Principia, which is perhaps the most important scientific work of all time.

“God created everything by number, weight and measure.”

“In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God’s existence.”

“I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by those who were inspired. I study the Bible daily.”

–Sir Isaac Newton, who is widely regarded to be the greatest scientist the world has ever produced.

“Both religion and science require a belief in God. For believers, God is in the beginning, and for physicists He is at the end of all considerations… To the former He is the foundation, to the latter, the crown of the edifice of every generalized world view.”

“There can never be any real opposition between religion and science; for the one is the complement of the other. Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the religious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony. And indeed it was not by accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were deeply religious souls.”

–Max Planck, the Nobel Prize winning physicist considered to be the founder of quantum theory, and one of the most important physicists of the 20th century, indeed of all time.

“I have looked into most philosophical systems and I have seen that none will work without God.”

“Science is incompetent to reason upon the creation of matter itself out of nothing. We have reached the utmost limit of our thinking faculties when we have admitted that because matter cannot be eternal and self-existent it must have been created.”

–Physicist and mathematician James Clerk Maxwell, who is credited with formulating classical electromagnetic theory and whose contributions to science are considered to be of the same magnitude to those of Einstein and Newton.

“The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. Science brings men nearer to God.”

“In good philosophy, the word cause ought to be reserved to the single Divine impulse that has formed the universe.”

“Little science takes you away from God but more of it takes you to Him.”

–Louis Pasteur, the founder of microbiology and immunology.

“The more I work with the powers of Nature, the more I feel God’s benevolence to man; the closer I am to the great truth that everything is dependent on the Eternal Creator and Sustainer; the more I feel that the so-called science, I am occupied with, is nothing but an expression of the Supreme Will, which aims at bringing people closer to each other in order to help them better understand and improve themselves.”

“I am proud to be a Christian. I believe not only as a Christian, but as a scientist as well. A wireless device can deliver a message through the wilderness. In prayer the human spirit can send invisible waves to eternity, waves that achieve their goal in front of God.”

–Guglielmo Marconi, winner of the 1909 Nobel Prize in Physics for his invention of the first successful system of wireless telegraphy. Marconi is the inventor of the radio; his revolutionary work made possible the electronic communications of the modern world.

Quoting 3345roc:

I'll stick with these guys.

“The question of whether there exists a Creator and Ruler of the Universe has been answered in the affirmative by some of the highest intellects that have ever existed.”

–Charles Darwin, the founder of evolutionary biology, as cited in his book Descent of Man.

“Another source of conviction in the existence of God, connected with the reason and not with the feelings, impresses me as having much more weight. This follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Theist.”

–Charles Darwin, the founder of evolutionary biology, as quoted in his autobiography.

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

–Albert Einstein

“The more I study science, the more I believe in God.”

–Albert Einstein

“I’m not an atheist, and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.” [Italics are mine]

–Albert Einstein, as cited in Antony Flew’s book, There Is A God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind.

“Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”

–Albert Einstein, from an interview with theSaturday Evening Post

“I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts; the rest are details.”

–Albert Einstein

“Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe–a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”

“In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”

–Albert Einstein

“I believe that the more thoroughly science is studied, the further does it take us from anything comparable to atheism.”

“If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God.”

–Lord William Kelvin, who was noted for his theoretical work on thermodynamics, the concept of absolute zero and the Kelvin temperature scale based upon it.

“Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and everywhere, could produce no variety of things. All that diversity of natural things which we find suited to different times and places could arise from nothing but the ideas and will of a Being, necessarily existing.”

–Sir Isaac Newton, who is widely regarded to have been the greatest scientist of all time, as cited in Principia, which is perhaps the most important scientific work of all time.

“God created everything by number, weight and measure.”

“In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God’s existence.”

“I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by those who were inspired. I study the Bible daily.”

–Sir Isaac Newton, who is widely regarded to be the greatest scientist the world has ever produced.

“Both religion and science require a belief in God. For believers, God is in the beginning, and for physicists He is at the end of all considerations… To the former He is the foundation, to the latter, the crown of the edifice of every generalized world view.”

“There can never be any real opposition between religion and science; for the one is the complement of the other. Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the religious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony. And indeed it was not by accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were deeply religious souls.”

–Max Planck, the Nobel Prize winning physicist considered to be the founder of quantum theory, and one of the most important physicists of the 20th century, indeed of all time.

“I have looked into most philosophical systems and I have seen that none will work without God.”

“Science is incompetent to reason upon the creation of matter itself out of nothing. We have reached the utmost limit of our thinking faculties when we have admitted that because matter cannot be eternal and self-existent it must have been created.”

–Physicist and mathematician James Clerk Maxwell, who is credited with formulating classical electromagnetic theory and whose contributions to science are considered to be of the same magnitude to those of Einstein and Newton.

“The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. Science brings men nearer to God.”

“In good philosophy, the word cause ought to be reserved to the single Divine impulse that has formed the universe.”

“Little science takes you away from God but more of it takes you to Him.”

–Louis Pasteur, the founder of microbiology and immunology.

“The more I work with the powers of Nature, the more I feel God’s benevolence to man; the closer I am to the great truth that everything is dependent on the Eternal Creator and Sustainer; the more I feel that the so-called science, I am occupied with, is nothing but an expression of the Supreme Will, which aims at bringing people closer to each other in order to help them better understand and improve themselves.”

“I am proud to be a Christian. I believe not only as a Christian, but as a scientist as well. A wireless device can deliver a message through the wilderness. In prayer the human spirit can send invisible waves to eternity, waves that achieve their goal in front of God.”

–Guglielmo Marconi, winner of the 1909 Nobel Prize in Physics for his invention of the first successful system of wireless telegraphy. Marconi is the inventor of the radio; his revolutionary work made possible the electronic communications of the modern world.

I'm glad you're very good at cherrypicking your data. I mean, if you really want to know, Einstein was a pantheist no matter what he said. Basically, you're picking which people to listen to, and also don't seem to mind that scientists tend not to have a personal God that they pray to and expect supernatural intervention like much of regular Christians.

“Many prominent scientists – including Darwin, Einstein, and Planck – have considered the concept of God very seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the existence of God?”

Christian Anfinsen replied: “I think only an idiot can be an atheist. We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place.”

–Christian Anfinsen, winner of the 1972 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work on ribonuclease.

That's not to imply that TFiend is an idiot. He is just not a scientist and can best be described as a bookworm. He's read a little bit about science. Maybe he should read a bit more... as suggested by Pasteur.

“Little science takes you away from God but more of it takes you to Him.”

–Louis Pasteur

The most notable scientists who have ever lived accept the notion of God in some shape or form. I think it takes an elegant mind to be able to embrace the knowlege of science and the power of faith ... others who lack such a mind only see black and white...

There's an article in Nature magazine, "Leading scientists still reject God" July 23, 1998 about the opposite of this view.

Quoting 3345roc:

“Many prominent scientists – including Darwin, Einstein, and Planck – have considered the concept of God very seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the existence of God?”

Christian Anfinsen replied: “I think only an idiot can be an atheist. We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place.”

–Christian Anfinsen, winner of the 1972 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work on ribonuclease.

That's not to imply that TFiend is an idiot. He is just not a scientist and can best be described as a bookworm. He's read a little bit about science. Maybe he should read a bit more... as suggested by Pasteur.

“Little science takes you away from God but more of it takes you to Him.”

–Louis Pasteur

The most notable scientists who have ever lived accept the notion of God in some shape or form. I think it takes an elegant mind to be able to embrace the knowlege of science and the power of faith ... others who lack such a mind only see black and white...

There's an article in Nature magazine, "Leading scientists still reject God" July 23, 1998 about the opposite of this view.

keeping our own historical prespectives in line gives us the capacity to venture into the realms of philosophical understandings.

Spinoza's Jewish upbringing and his Cherem (Jewish excommunication ) for his thoughts/writings on the rejection of the providential God and immortal soul probably was part of his drive to grind and polish the lenses of religion

keeping our own historical prespectives in line gives us the capacity to venture into the realms of philosophical understandings.

Spinoza's Jewish upbringing and his Cherem (Jewish excommunication ) for his thoughts/writings on the rejection of the providential God and immortal soul probably was part of his drive to grind and polish the lenses of religion

I already mentioned Newton before, how he studied astrology and alchemy, although it wasn't really forbidden at the time.

I'll come to some sort of compromise with you. Scientists can be religious, even about their work, but science itself I think should be left unbiased. If the evidence points to a big bang and a Catholic priest is the one that finds it (which happened), he should have as much say as a militant atheist in biology (Richard Dawkins).

Quoting DONTFITMOLD:

I prefer the the thoughts or beliefs of an aesthetic that of an atheist, or any other label. Labeling does limit ones perspectives regarding the views of history and the world. Booklarn'n aint no good unless yah go common scents to go witit yah no?

By the way Newton was a key figure in the Scientific Revolution along with his intense studies regarding the literal and symbology of the Bible.

Quoting DONTFITMOLD:

I prefer the the thoughts or beliefs of an aesthetic that of an atheist, or any other label. Labeling does limit ones perspectives regarding the views of history and the world. Booklarn'n aint no good unless yah go common scents to go witit yah no?

By the way Newton was a key figure in the Scientific Revolution along with his intense studies regarding the literal and symbology of the Bible.

I already mentioned Newton before, how he studied astrology and alchemy, although it wasn't really forbidden at the time.

I'll come to some sort of compromise with you. Scientists can be religious, even about their work, but science itself I think should be left unbiased. If the evidence points to a big bang and a Catholic priest is the one that finds it (which happened), he should have as much say as a militant atheist in biology (Richard Dawkins).

I prefer the the thoughts or beliefs of an aesthetic that of an atheist, or any other label. Labeling does limit ones perspectives regarding the views of history and the world. Booklarn'n aint no good unless yah go common scents to go witit yah no?

By the way Newton was a key figure in the Scientific Revolution along with his intense studies regarding the literal and symbology of the Bible.

I prefer the the thoughts or beliefs of an aesthetic that of an atheist, or any other label. Labeling does limit ones perspectives regarding the views of history and the world. Booklarn'n aint no good unless yah go common scents to go witit yah no?

By the way Newton was a key figure in the Scientific Revolution along with his intense studies regarding the literal and symbology of the Bible.

I don't generally have time for "Ancient Aliens" conspiracy theories. UFOs and ghosts are as much superstition and myth as religion is to me.

If you actually read Origin of Species by Charles Darwin, it doesn't say anything about aliens or intentionality needed. What you are doing, my friend, is moving the goalposts. Once people actually did believe that the world was 6000 years old because the Bible told them so. Along comes evolution and Charles Darwin gets in a lot of trouble for having a theory that's actually true. (Same with Galileo by the way, even though Galileo didn't invent it) It seems that if you're religious you can't quite have freedom of thinking to find things that go against your religion.

Anyway, Charles finds evolution, people finally agree that evolution might be true, then religion coopts science and says that God did the evolution. There is no end in sight. If science someday creates life from nothing or a universe from nothing, a religious person like you will still say: "But what about before that?"

Quoting DONTFITMOLD:

Tivo,

Without a religious connotation implyed, let's post intentionallity another way. Is it not intentional that a species evolves by means of " survival of the fittest "...adapt or extinction? Where does this power come from? instincts? where does this intuitive power originate?

Angles or Giants inpregnating beautiful vigin women? Can we imagine the birth of major religions as a result of alien beings coming down to seduce the Virgin Mary? What would Jesus say???

Enoch, the father of Noah, was taken "Without Dying"up to be in "God's presence" and saw the whole of the earth and the stars. Musta been some marvelous orbital ride with da Boss

What is that over her left shoulder? Daddy's ship?

Quoting DONTFITMOLD:

Tivo,

Without a religious connotation implyed, let's post intentionallity another way. Is it not intentional that a species evolves by means of " survival of the fittest "...adapt or extinction? Where does this power come from? instincts? where does this intuitive power originate?

Angles or Giants inpregnating beautiful vigin women? Can we imagine the birth of major religions as a result of alien beings coming down to seduce the Virgin Mary? What would Jesus say???

Enoch, the father of Noah, was taken "Without Dying"up to be in "God's presence" and saw the whole of the earth and the stars. Musta been some marvelous orbital ride with da Boss

What is that over her left shoulder? Daddy's ship?

I don't generally have time for "Ancient Aliens" conspiracy theories. UFOs and ghosts are as much superstition and myth as religion is to me.

If you actually read Origin of Species by Charles Darwin, it doesn't say anything about aliens or intentionality needed. What you are doing, my friend, is moving the goalposts. Once people actually did believe that the world was 6000 years old because the Bible told them so. Along comes evolution and Charles Darwin gets in a lot of trouble for having a theory that's actually true. (Same with Galileo by the way, even though Galileo didn't invent it) It seems that if you're religious you can't quite have freedom of thinking to find things that go against your religion.

Anyway, Charles finds evolution, people finally agree that evolution might be true, then religion coopts science and says that God did the evolution. There is no end in sight. If science someday creates life from nothing or a universe from nothing, a religious person like you will still say: "But what about before that?"

Without a religious connotation implyed, let's post intentionallity another way. Is it not intentional that a species evolves by means of " survival of the fittest "...adapt or extinction? Where does this power come from? instincts? where does this intuitive power originate?

Angles or Giants inpregnating beautiful vigin women? Can we imagine the birth of major religions as a result of alien beings coming down to seduce the Virgin Mary? What would Jesus say???

Enoch, the father of Noah, was taken "Without Dying"up to be in "God's presence" and saw the whole of the earth and the stars. Musta been some marvelous orbital ride with da Boss

What is that over her left shoulder? Daddy's ship?

Tivo,

Without a religious connotation implyed, let's post intentionallity another way. Is it not intentional that a species evolves by means of " survival of the fittest "...adapt or extinction? Where does this power come from? instincts? where does this intuitive power originate?

Angles or Giants inpregnating beautiful vigin women? Can we imagine the birth of major religions as a result of alien beings coming down to seduce the Virgin Mary? What would Jesus say???

Enoch, the father of Noah, was taken "Without Dying"up to be in "God's presence" and saw the whole of the earth and the stars. Musta been some marvelous orbital ride with da Boss

Seems evolution carrys with it that dung smell of a T Rex, and Miss, Mrs...Whatever, to make this happen. The hole, opened up with Cain, might support another theory. Some equate Genesis, Ch 1, and 2 as different creations( Land of Nod(wandering),with Cain bearing a seed line of decendants. Takes 22TANGO! Lot's of women showing up unnoticed between the sheets of linen and rocks writings. How old is the Silk Road, and what do inscriptions indicate of the begining of huberus. The learning curve is documented with art, and expression that preceeds the time of Adam. I would like to think my Genes fall between that. No dung deals for me!

Yes, Genesis 6:4 says that Nephilim (angels or giants, depending how you're going to translate it) mated with human women, and that supposedly is why they lived 900 years old back then. Yes I took Religious Studies on the Bible from Open Yale. This is why I don't give much creedence to religious explanations of the world.

Quoting leonicvirgo:

Seems evolution carrys with it that dung smell of a T Rex, and Miss, Mrs...Whatever, to make this happen. The hole, opened up with Cain, might support another theory. Some equate Genesis, Ch 1, and 2 as different creations( Land of Nod(wandering),with Cain bearing a seed line of decendants. Takes 22TANGO! Lot's of women showing up unnoticed between the sheets of linen and rocks writings. How old is the Silk Road, and what do inscriptions indicate of the begining of huberus. The learning curve is documented with art, and expression that preceeds the time of Adam. I would like to think my Genes fall between that. No dung deals for me!

Yes, Genesis 6:4 says that Nephilim (angels or giants, depending how you're going to translate it) mated with human women, and that supposedly is why they lived 900 years old back then. Yes I took Religious Studies on the Bible from Open Yale. This is why I don't give much creedence to religious explanations of the world.

Seems evolution carrys with it that dung smell of a T Rex, and Miss, Mrs...Whatever, to make this happen. The hole, opened up with Cain, might support another theory. Some equate Genesis, Ch 1, and 2 as different creations( Land of Nod(wandering),with Cain bearing a seed line of decendants. Takes 22TANGO! Lot's of women showing up unnoticed between the sheets of linen and rocks writings. How old is the Silk Road, and what do inscriptions indicate of the begining of huberus. The learning curve is documented with art, and expression that preceeds the time of Adam. I would like to think my Genes fall between that. No dung deals for me!

Seems evolution carrys with it that dung smell of a T Rex, and Miss, Mrs...Whatever, to make this happen. The hole, opened up with Cain, might support another theory. Some equate Genesis, Ch 1, and 2 as different creations( Land of Nod(wandering),with Cain bearing a seed line of decendants. Takes 22TANGO! Lot's of women showing up unnoticed between the sheets of linen and rocks writings. How old is the Silk Road, and what do inscriptions indicate of the begining of huberus. The learning curve is documented with art, and expression that preceeds the time of Adam. I would like to think my Genes fall between that. No dung deals for me!

Noone has to oversee evolution? Why must you always go straight to inferring intentionality? I know it's your human animal default mechanism, but you might try being scientific instead of religious once in a while.

Quoting tivo_fiend:

Noone has to oversee evolution? Why must you always go straight to inferring intentionality? I know it's your human animal default mechanism, but you might try being scientific instead of religious once in a while.

Noone has to oversee evolution? Why must you always go straight to inferring intentionality? I know it's your human animal default mechanism, but you might try being scientific instead of religious once in a while.

Quoting DONTFITMOLD:

Might we consider Multiverse Theory? Where they float independantly and on occastion collide to give birth to another BIG Bang producing yet another bubble? Imagine the power that oversees this???

Quoting DONTFITMOLD:

Might we consider Multiverse Theory? Where they float independantly and on occastion collide to give birth to another BIG Bang producing yet another bubble? Imagine the power that oversees this???

Noone has to oversee evolution? Why must you always go straight to inferring intentionality? I know it's your human animal default mechanism, but you might try being scientific instead of religious once in a while.