I appreciated this analogy of Hell. I am certain that a fundamentalist Christian will be able to explain either that the analogy is invalid or that the analogy is valid but that all humans actually deserve the punishment of Hell.

catmandu:This guy really doesn't think like your average fundie. From a blog entry about a bombing in Afghanistan: Link

"Christians are supposed to be the ones who "live in this world" but are not "of this world."

One of the ways this plays out is we don't allow ourselves to become trapped by an American-centric worldview.- We recognize that God is not an American.- We recognize that God isn't "on our side" in military conflicts any more than any other country.- We recognize that America's role isn't any more special in the world than Belize or Ghana.- We recognize that as Christians we have much more in common with Iraqi, North Korean, and Iranian Christiansthan the non-Christian working in the cubicle next to us."

Yeap until that last bit - then he became (returned to being) a nutter!

letrole:The amusing thing here is the way that Atheists are still acknowledging God and giving Him glory -- albeit in bloody-minded defiance.

I wouldn't quite call it glory though yeah, a lot of "atheists" are the equivalent of the kid who doesn't believe in Santa but spends too much time going off on how much they hate that jolly old elf...

If you don't believe in something, why would you spend any time even thinking about it?

chewielouie:MayoSlather: And this is why atheists should go full douche on religion. These people need to be openly mocked and ridiculed of for their wild imaginations just like alien abduction and Sasquatch believers.

Yeah, they openly mocked and ridiculed Noah too.

Uhhh... Noah didn't exist, nor did a global flood. Using a religious story from the religion being mocked to attempt to disprove said mockery is, beyond being circular, simply stupid.

If you don't believe in something, why would you spend any time even thinking about it?

Because unfortunately for mankind, while none of the thousands of gods people have invented exist, religion does. And religion is responsible for the vast majority of genocide, bigotry and misogyny throughout recorded human history?Because otherwise rational adults seriously believe myths and fairy tales should affect the way they vote and what children should be taught?

que.guero:letrole: The amusing thing here is the way that Atheists are still acknowledging God and giving Him glory -- albeit in bloody-minded defiance.

I wouldn't quite call it glory though yeah, a lot of "atheists" are the equivalent of the kid who doesn't believe in Santa but spends too much time going off on how much they hate that jolly old elf...

If you don't believe in something, why would you spend any time even thinking about it?

Every time I pull out money to pay for something I'm reminded that even in the US, where we have separation of church and state, we trust in God.

I think about it because turning away from scientific explainations of the natural world, and favoring mythology, does nothing to help the US get back on track to being a leader in math and science, which is neccessary for this country to regain its economic footing. And, believe it or not, the state of the US economy affects me directly.

Pitabred:chewielouie: MayoSlather: And this is why atheists should go full douche on religion. These people need to be openly mocked and ridiculed of for their wild imaginations just like alien abduction and Sasquatch believers.

Yeah, they openly mocked and ridiculed Noah too.

Uhhh... Noah didn't exist, nor did a global flood. Using a religious story from the religion being mocked to attempt to disprove said mockery is, beyond being circular, simply stupid.

Pitabred:chewielouie: MayoSlather: And this is why atheists should go full douche on religion. These people need to be openly mocked and ridiculed of for their wild imaginations just like alien abduction and Sasquatch believers.

Yeah, they openly mocked and ridiculed Noah too.

Uhhh... Noah didn't exist, nor did a global flood. Using a religious story from the religion being mocked to attempt to disprove said mockery is, beyond being circular, simply stupid.

Look I'm not saying that it definitely happened, and I'm not trying to defend anyone here but you can't make absolute statements like that either since you weren't there. Either side of the debate can cook up scientists and experts to try and prove their point.

Langdon_777:catmandu: This guy really doesn't think like your average fundie. From a blog entry about a bombing in Afghanistan: Link

"Christians are supposed to be the ones who "live in this world" but are not "of this world."

One of the ways this plays out is we don't allow ourselves to become trapped by an American-centric worldview.- We recognize that God is not an American.- We recognize that God isn't "on our side" in military conflicts any more than any other country.- We recognize that America's role isn't any more special in the world than Belize or Ghana.- We recognize that as Christians we have much more in common with Iraqi, North Korean, and Iranian Christiansthan the non-Christian working in the cubicle next to us."

Yeap until that last bit - then he became (returned to being) a nutter!

Never said he wasn't a nutter, just a different kind of nutter than the average Teabagger Fundie

mcgreggers99:Pitabred: chewielouie: MayoSlather: And this is why atheists should go full douche on religion. These people need to be openly mocked and ridiculed of for their wild imaginations just like alien abduction and Sasquatch believers.

Yeah, they openly mocked and ridiculed Noah too.

Uhhh... Noah didn't exist, nor did a global flood. Using a religious story from the religion being mocked to attempt to disprove said mockery is, beyond being circular, simply stupid.

Look I'm not saying that it definitely happened, and I'm not trying to defend anyone here but you can't make absolute statements like that either since you weren't there. Either side of the debate can cook up scientists and experts to try and prove their point.

Pitabred:mcgreggers99: Pitabred: chewielouie: MayoSlather: And this is why atheists should go full douche on religion. These people need to be openly mocked and ridiculed of for their wild imaginations just like alien abduction and Sasquatch believers.

Yeah, they openly mocked and ridiculed Noah too.

Uhhh... Noah didn't exist, nor did a global flood. Using a religious story from the religion being mocked to attempt to disprove said mockery is, beyond being circular, simply stupid.

Look I'm not saying that it definitely happened, and I'm not trying to defend anyone here but you can't make absolute statements like that either since you weren't there. Either side of the debate can cook up scientists and experts to try and prove their point.

nmemkha:MayoSlather: nmemkha: MayoSlather: There are lots of Christian types in this thread that are attempting to pull the "I'm a rational christian, not like this crazy guy." thing. And to that I say no, no you're not. You are just as batshiat.

We could care less what you think. You have more right to condemn our beliefs than we yours.

Go fark yourself you intolerant assbag.

Intolerance? Look everyone, a Christian is going to give us a lesson in intolerance.

Fark your fairy tales and the ignorant destruction they bring. Truth condemning lies is not intolerance.

If you act in the very manner you claim to hate in believers how are you any better? Because you think you right? Gee where have we heard that before? That and $5 will be you a cup of coffee these days.

I think I'm right? About religion being man made and there aren't imaginary people in the sky? Call it just a crazy hunch if you will, but yeah, I kinda sorta "think" I'm right.

stuhayes2010:[brianjones.com image 640x427]Even as a little kid I would look at these people and think "they really believe they're talking to someone who is there? I just don't get it." 30 years later, I still don't get it. Sundays should be spent with friends and family, not handing money to a tax free organization.

I didn't have those kind of people in my churches, since I went to Catholic ones that did not encourage any kind of physical movement other than the kneeling when required thing, but from my earliest memories I thought the same thing you did. I wondered if the people around me were pretending to talk to someone who wasn't there, or if they really saw angels and saints and Jesus and god and I was the only one who didn't. As a tiny child, I decided that it must be something that was reserved for adults, like cigarettes and coffee and alcohol, all of which I hated but every adult seemed to love indulging in. I figured that, like sex, one day those things would also appeal to me and I'd also suddenly see or understand the stuff they talked about during mass. It never happened.

When I was 12, I told a priest in confession that I didn't believe any of it and never had, never experienced any of the religious stuff and wasn't interested in it. He told me to say some Hail Mary's and I left the booth and have never been back. I told my mother and grandmother they were going to mass without me the following week, and despite their anger, I stuck to my guns. I've only been in a church twice in the years since then, both times for family weddings. I and my also-atheist husband raised our kid with knowledge that religion exists in the world, we don't believe any of them, and she could make up her own mind about it when she was old enough.

We just don't have whatever is in some people's brains that allow them to believe in non-factual things. Either that or we have something in our brains that others lack that prevents us from swallowing bunk whole. Hmmm... I've also never sent money to Nigeria....

I'm confused about point 4, " Stop reading the gospels in your daily time with God. Jesus constantly talked about the afterlife, especially hell. Let's be honest: it's pretty tiring to have to keep shielding your eyes from those verses while hunting for the gems that talk about how you can be happy and successful."

Cracked told me that Hell is only mentioned once, "Of all that, the only part you'll find in the Bible is <a target="c" data-cke-saved-href="http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-he ll">the fact that Hell sucks and that there is fire (from passages like Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.") "( http://www.cracked.com/article_18757_5-things-you-wont-believe-arent- i n-bible_p2.html )

mcgreggers99:Look I'm not saying that it definitely happened, and I'm not trying to defend anyone here but you can't make absolute statements like that either since you weren't there. Either side of the debate can cook up scientists and experts to try and prove their point.

Saying it never happened simply "because it didn't happen" is also circular. Making absolute statements about something that we can't definitely prove either way is also kind of foolish.

LOL! You didn't really read that story, did you? All Ballard suggested was there was a LOCAL big flood, that he's thinking might be the one described in the Bible. Plus, he's only LOOKING FOR evidence. He didn't find anything yet, beyond what we already knew about the creation of the Black Sea being an abrupt event.

Manic Depressive Mouse:I'm confused about point 4, " Stop reading the gospels in your daily time with God. Jesus constantly talked about the afterlife, especially hell. Let's be honest: it's pretty tiring to have to keep shielding your eyes from those verses while hunting for the gems that talk about how you can be happy and successful."

Cracked told me that Hell is only mentioned once, "Of all that, the only part you'll find in the Bible is <a target="c" data-cke-saved-href="http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-he ll">the fact that Hell sucks and that there is fire (from passages like Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.") "( http://www.cracked.com/article_18757_5-things-you-wont-believe-arent- i n-bible_p2.html )

Am I to believe Cracked lied?

\haven't read thread - genuinely curious

No, you did not comprehend what was written in the Cracked article very well.

Check out the paragraph on page 2 after the picture of the World Eater Chaos Space Marine. Tell you what, I'll just reproduce it here.

A lot of moderates don't really seem to believe in Hell. If they do, it's only on a very inconsistent basis. Sometimes this is because they're afraid to think of it. Other times it's because the idea of eternally torturing anybody is so morally abhorrent that they cannot bring themselves to simultaneously believe in it and in a loving God.

Hell is the reason I left Christianity. There is literally nobody in history whom I think deserves to suffer for eternity. Endless punishment is cruelty in its purest form: it accomplishes nothing.

1. A Christian that believes I'm going to suffer for eternity, and tries to help me?2. A Christian that believes I'm going to suffer for eternity, and does nothing for fear of being labeled a "dick"?

It depends.

Christian #1 usually asks about my background, hears I was raised in church but no longer go, and then proceeds to fervently "introduce" me to core concepts of their faith. ... True Christianity isn't a religion, you say? Gosh! I've never heard that one before! ... Why no, of course I've never "really thought about" any Sunday school lessons. Naturally, I left the church in adulthood because I completely misunderstood what it was really about. ... Well, that, and I've never experienced suffering, injustice, or the death of a loved one, so no need for God! ... Yeah, just pray real hard that I get terribly sick before I die so you Jesus can save me on my death bed, okay?

Christian #2 might simply be blessed with a grain of common sense, or believe in predestination, one or the other.

Manic Depressive Mouse:I'm confused about point 4, " Stop reading the gospels in your daily time with God. Jesus constantly talked about the afterlife, especially hell. Let's be honest: it's pretty tiring to have to keep shielding your eyes from those verses while hunting for the gems that talk about how you can be happy and successful."

Cracked told me that Hell is only mentioned once, "Of all that, the only part you'll find in the Bible is <a target="c" data-cke-saved-href="http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-he ll">the fact that Hell sucks and that there is fire (from passages like Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.") "( http://www.cracked.com/article_18757_5-things-you-wont-believe-arent- i n-bible_p2.html )

Am I to believe Cracked lied?

\haven't read thread - genuinely curious

So, the Cracked article was covered by someone else. Also, the author of this article is being sarcastic and snide, I'm pretty sure.