Kramer: Yeah, ya know you haven't been around for a while. Maestro: Oh yeah, I've been at my house in Tuscany. Kramer: Oh Tuscany huh? Hear that Jerry? That's in Italy.
Jerry: I hear it's ah beautiful there. Maestro: Well if you're thinking of getting a place there don't bother. There's
really nothing available.
- Seinfeld, The Maestro

The short-lived Alby's Place is dead - in its place rises 'Villa Toscana' (according to the note in the window), which promises that it's a restaurant. Pillar-box-red and black paintwork has given way to a thick reddy-brown lacquer. Maybe the CCTV cameras on the front door and window-coverings will go too, to give it a slightly more welcoming appearance.

Yes, revuiews are subjective. Door always locked, windows obscured, a menu taped to the window offering pasta at £14 a plate makes me think it was rubbish. Never saw Chicken & Chips on that other menu by the way.

It was never a serious attempt at a restaurant. That's my view, chicken guy needs to get out more.

Not exactly optimistic, there is nothing so far to make me think it isn't the same dodgy people. All the other recent openings (e.g. Arlo & Moe, Gantry, Gently Elephant, Gulen's Bar) have used this blog to publicise themselves. All the businesses opening in the area have at least had a social media site to show there are people behind it who want to be trackable. This currently doesn't, same with Alby's. I desperately hope I'm wrong (and hope the owners will make themselves known), but I suspect otherwise.

"Hey, maybe, you know, we judge it by what it does rather than it's sign or social media policy?!"

Agreed, but that swings both ways. If "what it does" is lock its doors, block its windows and not open to the general public, then we should be free to say that this is a waste of a restaurant unit without having to defend ourselves from charges of snobbery from a fantasist who swear they had a delicious chicken and chips there once.

Whether or not they launch a Twitter account or Flickr stream or offer an interview with BC is of secondary importance compared with whether they unlock their front door and make it possible for passing trade to come in.

It's not only Brockley Nick who has failed to gain admittance to Alby's. From what I've heard, a fair few people have tried (including me), and been rebuffed. In what sense was Alby's even vaguely pretending to be a restaurant, when the most basic function of a restaurant - letting people in through the door - was not being fulfilled?Anyway, let's just hope that this new attempt (which is quite clearly by the same people) will prove more convincing.

Anon 21:31, if we're thinking of the same certain Thai restaurant I doubt it. It's been going for 4 years at least, but always seems empty. I have actually been in thatplace (the Thai place) and it was alright. Don't know how they keep going though.

What bilge. Twitter is a public forum, should opinions be policed? Was the comment libellous or an opinion? If you open. If you own a business, write a book, are a politician or even a twitter user who doesn't block their content get used to people voicing an opinion, it's a harsh world out there.

You like it, great. Rather than dragging up old tweets of mine so that more people will now be aware of an opinion that you don't agree with, why not just post a positive review of it on the relevant thread:

Villa Toscana: a shit name, and it looks like it's going to be a shit restaurant. The frontage needs more than a(nother) lick of paint and I honestly think people who were in it to win it would know that and start from scratch. Using platforms like this blog and twitter to ingratiate yourself with the local community is just good business, particularly if your site has been the focus of so much speculation and distrust. That doesn't mean I won't give it a chance - proof is in the carbonara, as they say - but they could make a softer landing for themselves by engaging a bit with people who care about what's happening in their area.

@Anon 14.35If you're opening a new business, one of the first things you think of is how to advertise it. Even if you don't know of this blog, imagine some of the things you might Google to look for places to get some free coverage.

How about "Brockley"? Brockley Central is second

How about the street of your new restaurant "Brockley Road"? There are 4 hits from Brockley Central in the top 10.

How about "Brockley newspaper"? It's first.

You'd have to be an idiot to open a business here and not know about Brockley Central and not contact Nick.

Let's imagine they've somehow failed to find the blog, has anybody seen a flyer, poster, posting on Facebook/StreetLife?

If Thai Thai don't have a chef, how do they prepare the food? Order it from Smiles?

On the subject of Smiles, there was a notice on their window a while back about seeking planning permission to redo the frontage. Not sure what became of that. It's rather a curiosity, with its year-round lights; but I've used it many times, because the food is good. I've yet to go into Thai Thai.

I would like to put a good word in for Thai Thai, I have eaten there many times and always enjoyed the food, it has an excellent menu and is reasonably priced. I believe the cooking is done mainly by the owner and occasionally she has another chef in, the service is very friendly and the chef always comes out to ask how we are enjoying the meal.

Try counting the number of people on duty at the busier restaurants in the area. They have about a dozen on the go at busy times, drawn from a roster of about twice that. It takes a lot of commitment and organisation to serve lots of meals all in the same intensely busy period when people want to dine in the evening.

A proprietor rustling up dinner for a couple of tables is more like a bed and breakfast. I am sure it can be very nice, but that is not a restaurant.

Thai Thai should be at least as busy as Smiles if it were run seriously, it is in a far better location.

Villa Tosca...I guess we will just have to wait and see, but the lack of engagement with the local community does not augur well.

If it is the previous owners involved, they were used to West End style business that relies on footfall to deliver casual dining customers. Not very appropriate in a local setting.

The success of local restaurants shows that the demand is there. It would be nice to have a couple more, so we have some choice.

There is nothing quite like having a fine dinner and good wine in a restaurant that is close to home.

granted, it might be a little quicker to get the word around however the brockley central blog is not going to be instrumental in the success of any business. If the food is good, people will go to it. if the food is crap, people won't go it. Simples!!!

It is possible for a restaurant to be neither "mung" nor "honest fare" but just good quality in unpretentious surroundings, and do very well in Brockley. A slightly scruffy traditional trattoria called Villa Toscana that served decent, well priced pizza and pasta on Brockley road would be quite popular, in the same way that both Smiles and Meze Mangal serve good, reasonably priced food in a pleasant atmosphere without making any attempt to be trendy. Likewise Le Querce although they have become a little expensive.

I don't agree that a successful restaurant needs a team of professional chefs and waiting staff either. Small family run restaurants with mum and dad in the kitchen and son or daughter on the tables are the established model from villages to cities around the world.

The trouble is the track record of the owners of that site. It would be nice to think this will be a friendly local Italian but, well, let's see.

Somehow other countries manage to avoid the silly snobbery / inverse snobbery about restaurant food we suffer from in the urban parts of the UK. Our class system seems to extend to every aspect of British life.

By the way I noticed a developer's sign outside the buildings next door to Meze Mangal last night, and wondered if this was the beginning of the end of the container, at last. Or has it been there for months and I just didn't notice?

The UK does not have a strong family restaurant tradition and it is generally regarded as beneath the dignity of any English person to serve another. If they do, it becomes a bit like Fawlty Towers.

It is a bit pathetic that the UK is dominated by class differences. But that is ingrained in the culture and does not show any signs of going away. It is certainly very evident in the troll comments on this blog.

Brockley is wide open for another restaurant. It is very sad that two good restaurant sites are being wasted.

2 sites? La lanterna as was, and which other?BTW your comments re English people's attitudes are quite daft. All sorts of people run cafes, coffee bars, restaurants in the area- many of them are English. I've worked in catering myself for 2 decades and take a great deal of pride in what I do. Working with my family though, that would be quite another matter...

Go into the West End and find a place where the service staff are English.

Service jobs have low pay and low status in the UK.

On the Continent, the status is higher and generally more professional. That is fairly plain to see by anyone who has been over the Channel. They have a restaurant culture. The best restaurants in the UK generally have Continental, often Italians or French running the front go house, because they do it well.

?? Sorry, see don't see how your sweeping generalisations about the West End sector have a bearing on discussion about local businesses. You said "English" people don't want to work in catering - locally they clearly do- and as for the Gantry, Broca, Browns, Jam Circus, Brock Mess, Arlo & Moe, Hopscotch Pistachios, the Orchard.... Are you saying they're all hopeless amateurs who display Basil Fawlty levels of incompetentce at what they do? Your (or you received?) views may have a point in a wider debate about certain areas of the UK restaurant scene, eg provincial restaurants that can't attract local talent and tourist trap gaffs such as one finds in the West End, but really locally one IS quite spoiled for choice, people DO take care in what they do, MANY of us are English.

A quick observation: I've been in Thai Thai four times. Twice it was lovely and the food was delicious and twice it was pretty nasty. A quick look at the place might be enough to tell you that the management style is...eccentric.

Yes, a commentator on a post points out several independent, unconnected local business's that are a success to illustrate a point about service. You, anon are suggesting that there is a sinister plot to freeze out other business's.

You really do make yourself look batshit crazy with that kind of groundless assertion. Good luck, as always it's worth pointing out that you can comment freely on here as long as you are not libellous, racist, etc, etc... The irony of anons constantly complaining that other voices are not heard is laughable.

I am saying that providing good service is counter cultural in the UK.

I am not just talking about the West End. Go anywhere, the British generally have to have it drummed into them to treat customers with respect.

Other cultures are much happier with the concept.

The local businesses that do recruit the local British population have to work harder to keep up a decent standard. Even then, some of the staff really do not get it. Sometimes, the proprietors don't get it either. Customers also, do not really know how to complain or ask for better service.

The positive thing about this is that, if you do provide good service, it puts a business ahead of the game.

Now all of this, I would have thought, would be fairly common knowledge. But it does not surprise me that someone who is working within the business has little idea of what it looks like from a customers point of view.

Don't know if you've ever eaten in an Italian restaurant in Italy? If you want distain, rudeness and sharp practice I suggest you try. Not all by any means but no worse....in MY experience. Having said that I can't stand overfamiliar "everything ok sir?" Service. Just want it accurate, fast, discrete and basic politeness.

I don't think poor service is counter-cultural in the UK – lots of people are very good at service when they give it a go – but I do think that there is something of a cultural aversion to service (particularly in food and drink) *as a career*, which is not quite the same thing.

The preponderance of French maitre d's in high-end restaurants (even the word itself) is no accident. These are people who have taken pride in a career in front-of-house catering. Waiting at table does not seem to be a favoured life-choice choice in the UK, just a holiday job or a stop-gap.

Here you get waiting staff who get told to ask whether everything is alright at each of their tables every twenty minutes or so.

That is so annoying. The times when you are having an intimate conversation or about to tell the punchline of a joke and the waiting staff thoughtlessly ruin the moment with a pointless interruption.

The general notion of observing the body language and anticipating the needs of a table seems an obvious thing, but quite rare. You only tend to experience it in places that treat the front of house staff as professionals and train them (and pay them) accordingly.

I can count on one hand the times when I have been impressed by service in the UK.

Most waiting staff and their employers see the job as casual and low status. And that is the standard of service you get, even when the food is quite good.

When I have visited the US, the contrast is stark. The waiters are professional and efficient. If there is anything wrong people complain and the manager had better be given a good explanation or the waiter is sacked. On the other hand, the waiters expect to be rewarded. Try paying anything less than a 20% tip and you can get chased down the street in New York.

Here, it seems we often get it wrong. Egocentric management, poorly paid and poorly trained staff. Though at least the food is improving.

How many of the local places mentioned actually have table service? Most are counter service, customers form a orderly queue. The Gantry and the Orchard have waiting staff. Both employ people from many countries. The Gantry, especially, has a very continental ambience.

I think it would be quite remarkable to have a restaurant manned by the British.

I actually think some of the opposite to is to blame - people expecting Ritz service for McDonalds prices who feel they can berate lowly paid serving staff because they're in a restaurant. It reminds me of road rage - the setting somehow needlessly dictating the tone. Perhaps if customers were a little more civil (I'm speaking to you, "I want to speak with the manager now" types) then servers would follow suit.

As it stands, when I eat in local restaurants like TopChef I'm left to enjoy my meal and pay afterwards, as it should be.

Anon: "... it is generally regarded as beneath the dignity of any English person to serve another. If they do, it becomes a bit like Fawlty Towers."

Me: Well, I'm English, I work in Catering, I take pride in it.

You: ...If they [the British]have such a job they do it grudgingly and usually not very well...If you have not been able to observe this sort of thing after two decades in the business, maybe you have not had enough experience as a customer...That ostrich mentality explains alot"

Me: Well thanks for taking it from a refutation of your premise to your insight into my capacity for professional pride, I'm also touched by your concern that I may not get out enough.

You can have professional pride in the part you play, but that is only one part of a larger package.

A restaurant experience from a customer point of view rests on the ambiance of the place itself, the front of house service and the quality of the food and drink provided by the chef their team. It is rare that they get all three right.

It is true though, customers often do not know how to complain and the staff do not know how to handle it. For every boorish type who demands to see the manager over some small thing, there are a far greater number of customers who tolerate the most God awful sloppiness but do not complain.

Watching a restaurant full of British customers wait patiently for an hour or more for their dinner to arrive while being purposefully ignored by the staff is quite remarkable.

Try experiencing life as a customer more often. Sometimes it is a grim experience. With your twenty years experience, I am sure you can give the management a few pointers.

Nope, still don't get how your poor dining experiences put you in a position to say how often I go out, or that I can't tell the difference between good & bad service. I mantain there are plenty of examples of British people running & working in restaurants, pubs and cafes in this area and London as a whole and doing it well to counteract the sometimes grim experiences.

I went to Villa Toscana last night. Thoroughly impressed - great food, stylish interior and attentive friendly staff. A great addition to the Brockley eating scene. I will be back and they also will be doing brunch on a Sunday. The people behind this venture know how to run restaurants. Delicious.

The service at our table was by Roberto, an amiable Sardinian, who was just about that right bit attentive without being overbearing.

He was assisted by a young and attractive Italian woman who unfortunately didn’t have much of a grasp of English. (I wonder how the place would cope on a busy night..?)

It was fairly busy when we visited on a Friday but with tables to spare. I’m sure that will change in future.

Atmosphere ?

Both nights we were the first customers there.

It was a bit cold. But once the heating was on and more customers arrived it was a very pleasant atmosphere indeed.

The staff were very friendly and chatty, but not overly intrusive.

It was less noiser than the Orchard and less intimate than the Gantry.

On the two nights that we have dined there the tables were immaculately dressed and the ambience excellent.

You say, ‘It looks like a normal, ordinary, good Italian, What's not to like ?’ Well, I wasn’t overly-impressed by the two naked (cheap) statues outside, which also serve to cheapen the interior, but shouldn’t. Passers-by might not see beyond that gaudy frontage and the statues, which is a shame.

The menu, I won’t go into as Nick is covering that later but we all enjoyed our meals. (It may though be a special night out for us in future as the bill was £140! Two bottles of house wine in there!)

One thing I think they should change is that when the bill arrived our wonderful waiter asked us how much we would like to tip. I think the English like to be discreet in that department.

Villa Toscana is nothing like the Orchard, or the Gantry. Each will complement the other, creating a busier restaurant hub near Brockley Station. What’s not to like?