As to the delay: do we have any real confirmation of this? Seems odd to keep speculating based on a single source.

Agreed. It's pretty certain that it won't be out in August, but even that Michelle's (Edit: Gameboy70's) friend said September or October. And a huge chunk of September is still in summer.

LinuxWorld was just a week ago, and I trust the "end of summer" response as to when the Foleo is coming out from the developers more so than a retail store employee who usually only knows for certain a couple weeks before release. (Not saying he was lying, just that he's not certain himself.)

It was never communicated release would be for August. 'Summer' is what was said which AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK$lasts$$until$$Sept$$21st$.

Brighthand has said (I believe both here and elsewhere) that "reliable sources" (READ: a Palm representative) had indicated that the Foleo would be released in August.

My guess is that Palm has decided it makes more sense to wait a few weeks until the Foleo can be beefed up to meet more of the basic expectations of a $600 laptop. While people can claim the Foleo is "not a laptop" until the cows come home, the fact remains that if it looks like a laptop, is priced like a laptop and a sized like a laptop then it had better damned well function like a laptop.

A few rumors:
1) Future Palm applications will have the ability to scale up from a Treo-sized screen to the full-screen size of a Foleo, while keeping the user interface intact. The Treo and Foleo copies of applications will communicate much like the Foleo's email app and VersaMail/Outlook do now, keeping everything in sync. The implications of this feature bode well for the future of the Foleo as a viable platform.

This is borderline stuipd from a user interface point of view. The amount of work that will have to be done to make sure something that works for quick access in one's hands versus keyboarded access on a screen will mean that the apps will be much larger than they need to be (lest SVG is employed vigorously.

That being said, its a great idea and one that I'd personally welcome if the apps were designed right, and IF 3rd party apps followed the rules with no shortcuts or exceptions.

This will mean that DAs/widgets would be able to be employed as system controls for end users though. Could be interesting.

Beef equals more chances to catch a disease later on in life A better thing would be to shore up the areas of concern in terms of attachments, connecting to social networks/online contact databases, and syncing; and then clean up the UI and improve the user's flow of information between apps.

Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra

3) PalmOS emulation is coming... but it may show up un a smaller device the a Foleo. [/COLOR]

I like that rumor, only because BH has a thread going now that seems to agree with this. Again, smaller device will mean that the UI has to adapt in the apps that go small or large. Not at all doubting the ability of the developers, but wondering a lot about how this will effect user expereince. As much as many love iPhone's Safari, many admit that only so much zooming and pinching can happen before you get drained in the eyes and fingers from so much adjusting.

1) Future Palm applications will have the ability to scale up from a Treo-sized screen to the full-screen size of a Foleo, while keeping the user interface intact. The Treo and Foleo copies of applications will communicate much like the Foleo's email app and VersaMail/Outlook do now, keeping everything in sync. The implications of this feature bode well for the future of the Foleo as a viable platform.

Automatic resolution scaling for non-windowed OS environments is not that simple.

Yes Palm made it look simple when moving from 160x160 to 320x320, but all they had to do is use pixel doubling. The screens where the same size, just twice the DPI.

Modern OS environments that support multiple resolutions do not have it so easy, not only does the XxY change but so does the DPI. Pixel height of fonts needs to fluxuate with DPI, in turn driving size of UI elements; which is in conflict with "put that button there".

Larger screens also give you more interface options. On a small screen you pretty much have to accept a certain amount of vertical scrolling; large screens give you the option of expanding horizontally, removing the need to scroll.

Further, on small screen devices you really should place primary UI components on the bottom of the screen, nearer the fingers for easier one-handed use. That's why tabs on the WinMo5 devices are at the bottom, instead of the top like on the desktop.

Larger screen devices are usually not handheld, so UI design is different, menu items are now on the top instead of the bottom, for example.

About the only types of interface that can easily adjust itself to multiple resolutions are document viewer apps (Word, Excel, web browsers), "list" apps (email, RSS readers) and navigation apps (file managers). Yes this covers a large chunk of apps out there but it does ignore data collectors, games, and others.

The recomendation has been to code your apps so that different front-ends can be compiled in, when necessary; and to create non-critical screens that degrade gracefully across resolutions. Trying to support all resolutions from one code base / installation does result in larger applications and deployments.

Some real world examples include:
WM Time and Alarms. Note that the UI does not fill the entire default 320x240 display, this is so no scorlling is necessary at 240x240

AstraWare Cubis game. Different installs based upon resolution. Cubis draws it's own text, different font heights are necessary based upon target resolution, thus the different installs.

WM Messaging. List application expected to scroll vertically, auto expands columns based upon width (center auto expands, left and right fixed width, similar to HTML table design). Only one version necessary to support all possible environments.

Regarding the auto-syncing of data between Foleo and Treo, again this is not so simple. According to Palms own website a special plugin to WM Messaging is required to enable this; so basically the apps themselves need to be able to sync. This is really no different than the effort required to Sync from the Treo to the desktop. The expectation that the Foleo will automatically handle this for you is unrealistic, especially when syncing the Foleo with WM.

Now I do think the Foleo is a cool idea, one that IS introducing an exciting new product category. I hope it succeeds.

1) Future Palm applications will have the ability to scale up from a Treo-sized screen to the full-screen size of a Foleo, while keeping the user interface intact. The Treo and Foleo copies of applications will communicate much like the Foleo's email app and VersaMail/Outlook do now, keeping everything in sync. The implications of this feature bode well for the future of the Foleo as a viable platform.

I think the idea is to sync the data in Palm application with the Foleo.

It is similar to the Listpro. It has Windows Desktop version, WM and Palm version. Of course, the interface will definitely different between the Windows version and the pda version because they can make use of the screen property. So you can update the data by using the Windows computer and sync to PDA.

I think some of the Palm developers will go to this direction if the reponse of Foleo is good.

1) I suspect Palm ran out of time with development of the Foleo software and decided they simply had to release it as-is before it was too late. The software is VERY basic - almost amateurish - and numerous key software features are either missing or poorly-implemented. Palm has essentially "thrown one over the wall" and appears to be hoping that 3rd party developers and the open source community will fill in the (large) gaps. For obvious reasons, I think this isn't exactly a great strategy. It may have worked for the Palm Pilot 10 years ago, but the situation is a lot different now and despite Palm's attempts to spin the Foleo as "not-a-laptop", Palm's competition is going to be real laptops and UMPC devices.

3) No ability to print documents? Why? No doubt expecting others to come up with the solution. Unfortunately, every application users have to buy to do a function that should have been included out of the box increases the true price of the Foleo, and it's already well into laptop territory. The standard answer that "It's Linux - a hacker will code/port a solution in a few weeks" is rather silly in my opinion. Talk to someone with a Nokia 770 or N800 and you'll see what I mean. (Yes I know the Nokias are not laptops.)

4) YouTube doesn't work on the Foleo, giving an error message that it isn't supported. I was going to post the screen photo but thought otherwise, because it makes Palm look bad. Of course there are hints that support for YouTube is "coming real soon now", but until it's here those promises are as meaningless as the empty promises of bugfixes that Treo 700p users endured for a year.

5) Weak security. No security if using the "instant on" feature and poor security otherwise. Zero security for the CompactFlash card that will likely be used to store most user data. Not a good setup for a business device. A Palm rep said TealPoint is planning to release a version of TealLock for the Foleo. In my opinion this should have been a standard part of the Foleo OS.

6) Someone posted earlier asking about hinge strength. While there is no way to predict how it will withstand the test of time, the hinge seems to be well-designed. I'd bet the Foleo can take a lot of abuse and keep working smoothly. Could probably be a great laptop for industrial users, warehouses, delivery companies, etc. with the right software.

8) No standalone email app - you need a Treo to download regular mail first. BIG mistake, inexcusble in my books and will be a dealbreaker for some people. I feel it would make more sense for the Foleo email app to be fully functional so users could optionally download email directly to the Foleo via Wi-Fi and sync it to the Treo via Bluetooth later. If you think about it, Palm pretty much had to go out of its way to NOT include standalone email functionality in the Foleo's email app. The only possible reason for Palm omitting such a basic feature is that they wanted to promote the syncing with Treos as a "unique" feature in order to hopefully differentiate the Foleo from other small laptops. Someone posted here asking if the Foleo only works with Palm's (buggy) Versamail app. Unfortunately, yes. I use Chatteremail and wouldn't touch that Versamail malware with a 10 foot pole. Another potential dealbreaker. It will be interesting to see if the recently-released version of Versamail has finally fixed its bugs and also if Palm's acquisition of Chatteremail + hiring Marc Blanc will result in some better Treo and Foleo email apps in the near future.

9) I tested the download speed and I believe it took a little less than a minute to send a 1 MB email (with JPEG attachment) from a WindowsMobile Treo to the Foleo.

10) Users can specify that attachments are not automatically downloaded from the Treo to the Foleo.

11) Claimed 5 hour battery life is nice, but given the feeble 415 MHz XScale CPU and the 10 inch screen I wonder if it shouldn't be longer. Unfortunately, the battery sits in an enclosed compartment, so switching batteries takes a while and you can't add a physically larger extended battery.

12) The Foleo does not seem to generate a lot of heat. Finally a laptop that doesn't fry the lap!

13) Very weak photo viewer. The Foleo's photo veiwer makes my Treo's Resco Viewer look like Photoshop. (Not really, but it's still disappointing). There isn't even a way to rotate photos. Given the fact that people will likely be offloading digital photos to the Foleo it should have shipped with a decent photo app.

14) Wi-Fi was working at the demo, but the speeds were disappointing. Slower than my Treo tethered to my laptop on even a "bad Sprint day". It will be interesting to see what the throughput is like later on in the real world.

15) Inconsistent user interface. Right click button doesn't even bring up a menu in several applications.

16) Lack of being able to keep multiple apps or multiple browser windows open at the same time is a significant flaw. Palm likely chose this compromise in order to be able to spec a slower CPU and thus eke out greater battery life, but I would gladly trade an hour or two less battery life for the ability to properly multitask. I think people are used especially to having multiple browser instances open and a lot of potential customers will find the Foleo's setup to be too constraining. As others have mentioned, besides YouTube there are a number of other sites that the Foleo's browser can't access in its current build.

Chupa's theory that Palm is planning to position smartphones as the future PCs might end up being true, but I'm not sure that Palm has the ability to realize such a radical vision. And even if they did, there are rumors swirling that Apple may be planning a similar attempt to cut Microsoft Windows desktops out of the loop. Bold ideas, but if Palm can't even code a decent browser or email app can they really be expected to produce a stable, entirely new platform?

All things considered, for the $600 asking price I was disappointed by Palm's effort. The numerous software deficiencies suggest the Foleo either is being released before it is ready, or else Palm doesn't understand that it has serious competition in a cutthroat market. After experiencing the Foleo firsthand, I'm at a loss to see how it will ever attract a significant number of buyers at its current asking price. The Palm reps claimed the $600 price will not be revised at launch date (now expected to be in around 3 weeks), so it seems likely that cheap laptops like the Asus Eee PC will result in the Foleo being relegated to a role as a very tiny niche device. Despite what some people will tell you, the Foleo IS a laptop. A well-made, poorly-speced, 415 MHz, 128 MB, PalmLinux, (sort of) non-multitasking, long lasting, relatively-applicationless, cool-running, 10 inch-screened, overpriced, $600, 2.5 pound laptop.

For a little less than half the price of a Foleo you can get an Asus Eee PC and for a little more than twice the price of a Foleo you can get a Fujitsu P1610, each of which - in their own way - seem to be much better values than the Foleo.

As always, your mileage may vary. Just don't shoot the messenger.

Well I finally got some hands-on time with a Foleo yesterday (don't ask how!) and agree 100% with what my colleague who had attended the Sneak Preview posted above.

You really have to use a Foleo yourself to appreciate how SOLID it feels. "Slick" is the best way I can describe it. For $400 I would buy one today just to play around with. But as impressed as I was with the hardware I was also disappointed with the included software. Palm is insane for having thought about releasing this with what amounts to beta software. We'll see if they fix the software in the next few weeks before the Foleo hits the shelves.

It seems almost always be the case: suspicion/derision upon seeing the Foleo on paper; appreciation/fascination upon actually using one.

Always glad to hear of people going from the first to the second though...says something about the device and Palm. The software issue is obvious but also probably the easiest to fix, in the long run.

I think that statement needs to be qualified. Yes, after borrowing a Foleo I came away liking the hardware, but the software is still woefully inadequate. The Foleo software seemed to be more proof-of-concept apps than real honest-to-goodness commercial software. Even the Treo syncing software - supposedly the whole point of buying a Foleo didn't work consistently.

I'm going to try to borrow the Foleo again this weekend so I can take it apart and post a review that should finally answer all of the questons people have about what it can and can't do. If I get the OK, I'll post all of the gory details here - including photos of a Foleo dissection showing its motherboard, chipsets, etc. - and do some performance testing as well. Hope Palm doesn't mind an honest assessment of its baby at this stage of the game! It's rather tragic seeing Palm's Ben Combee struggling to explain all of the Foleo's deficiencies here. It must be hard to devote 2 years of effort to a project only to find everything falling apart at the end. Of course, who knows how much salvage work Palm is doing right now with the Foleo's software. The Palm Store I spoke to recently now isn't even sure if the Foleo will be shipping in October. This makes me wonder if the entire stock are going to be reflashed with bugfixes and some new software.

I would buy the Foleo for $400 and use it as a disposable laptop - something to take to the coffeeshop for emailing + web browsing without having to worry about risking losing a $2000 laptop. But if I didn't have the disposable income to afford a $400 "extra" laptop I wouldn't give the Foleo a second thought.

If Palm was being honest they would have not tried to play games by calling the Foleo a "smartphone companion". They would have introduced it as a small, light, instant-on Linux laptop that can potentially replace a traditional Windows laptop for many people. Unfortunately, without the FINISHED software needed to back up such a claim, Palm realized the Foleo would have been laughed out of the room. Instead, it's now stuck with confused marketing that is getting the Foleo laughed out of the room anyway. Poor Palm!

I'm going to try to borrow the Foleo again this weekend so I can take it apart and post a review that should finally answer all of the questons people have about what it can and can't do. If I get the OK, I'll post all of the gory details here - including photos of a Foleo dissection showing its motherboard, chipsets, etc. - and do some performance testing as well. Hope Palm doesn't mind an honest assessment of its baby at this stage of the game!

Interesting... I wonder where NDA's and what not come into this. Personally, I would rather see a more unbiased review from a reputable organization like Treocentral or one of the many others out there.

Up until your post today, you have been largely against the Foleo. Receiving a review from a known opponent to the Foleo with a tendency towards instigating flame wars doesn't sound appealing to me at all.

While I'm as anxious as the next guy in here for details, it is a real pitty they arenít coming by way of a reputable source.

Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra

It's rather tragic seeing Palm's Ben Combee struggling to explain all of the Foleo's deficiencies here. It must be hard to devote 2 years of effort to a project only to find everything falling apart at the end. Of course, who knows how much salvage work Palm is doing right now with the Foleo's software.

What a cheap shot. Ben's post show no signs what so ever of a person struggling to justify anything. They have been very informative and welcomed by many.

If Palm was being honest they would have not tried to play games by calling the Foleo a "smartphone companion". They would have introduced it as a small, light, instant-on Linux laptop that can potentially replace a traditional Windows laptop for many people. Unfortunately, without the FINISHED software needed to back up such a claim, Palm realized the Foleo would have been laughed out of the room. Instead, it's now stuck with confused marketing that is getting the Foleo laughed out of the room anyway. Poor Palm!

The design idea of the Foleo is to work with a smartphone, it should call "smartphone companion". How people use it is another matters.

A lot of people using the computer for internet only, should we call the computer "internet device"? Is it stupid to call Nokia N800 an internet device because it can do more than internet surfing.

Why people laugh? Because they compare it to a laptop by ignoring the original design concept. You can say Foleo does not suit me but it does not mean other people do not want it.

I bought a smartphone becuase i was tired of carrying "companions" with me. If you can't see why people are laughing at palm, then you need help.

Call it a smartpad, or treobook...or whatever. Palm has no concept of marketing and this product will fail miserably. A 10" big screen version of the treo that can't do what the treo does..great product.

Palm should stick to what they're good at (and have suffered with lately). Not this nonsense...

I bought a smartphone becuase i was tired of carrying "companions" with me. If you can't see why people are laughing at palm, then you need help.

Call it a smartpad, or treobook...or whatever. Palm has no concept of marketing and this product will fail miserably. A 10" big screen version of the treo that can't do what the treo does..great product.

Palm should stick to what they're good at (and have suffered with lately). Not this nonsense...

AFter a few months with the Treo, doing all your computing needs, you WILL feel the need for for a bigger screen and full keyboard... depending on the amount of use and what you use it for. But in my experience, the internet experience is just sorely lcking on the Treo, and when you're outside your house doing that, you will WANT to have a big screen and keyboard even just for surfing. You may not be one of their markets but people with Treos do feel the need for a Foleo sometimes... BUT maybe at a lower pricepoint.

Interesting... I wonder where NDA's and what not come into this. Personally, I would rather see a more unbiased review from a reputable organization like Treocentral or one of the many others out there.

There have any that have shipped to reviewers to my knowledge, and those that do have them are under NDA until the release date. You won't get anything more than that from any other sites. At best, a site or two might get a user submitted review of a pre-release version of the Foleo.

AFter a few months with the Treo, doing all your computing needs, you WILL feel the need for for a bigger screen and full keyboard... depending on the amount of use and what you use it for. But in my experience, the internet experience is just sorely lcking on the Treo, and when you're outside your house doing that, you will WANT to have a big screen and keyboard even just for surfing. You may not be one of their markets but people with Treos do feel the need for a Foleo sometimes... BUT maybe at a lower pricepoint.

Once again, a 12 or 13" laptop does wonders if you're on the road that long which is what i'm assuming you mean by a few months with the Treo.

BUT...and this is a key point...IMPROVE THE TREO. Maybe i'd surf on it more if it was like the iphone's browser combined with the speed of rev a. If i want to type a book, i'll use my laptop.

So now i should maintain a Treo, a foleo, AND my laptop? No thanks. And this foleo will not come close to replacing a light laptop.

The foleo is a bad idea and one could argue that you only see a need for it based on our current outdated software/hardware on old treos. What is a good idea is coming out with an improved Treo. I don't care about thin or cool looking...but a better, wider screen, a solid browser, solid email, solid BT, wifi (although i don't care if its rev a), increased memory, and improved OS would be good for starters.

My thinking is the Foleo will replace your "mobile" computer be it your laptop or something else... It will not be your primary PC but your primary mobile computer..

and that to me is replacing my laptop.

Call me crazy or a fanatic, but i do have a 12" Powerbook, but i plan to sell it when the Foleo comes out.. Why?

1. Its cheaper. I can sell my PB for about $800-900 and get an extra $400 i can spend somewhere else (prob pay off my credit cards)
2. Its a less expensive and much lighter equipment to be lugging around. Finally it will free me of carrying around my scoliosis-inducing laptop bag
3. It does probably 95% of what i do when i carry my laptop to a coffee shop or somewhere else. I really basically do the ff with the web: surf, surf, surf, surf, make office docs, sync my palm, read pdf journals, listen to music, watch videos.
4. I have my mac mini at home which will serve as my main desktop PC.

Foleo will not replace your laptop if it serves both as your mobile computer and your main computer at home. Just as Hawkins and Palm has always been trying yo say. It will, on the other hand, replace though your mobile computing device and coupled with your Treo will do everything you need and want to do on the road.

Now to say that the future of PC is going to be smartphone-centric is another topic.... though i believe this is going to be true...

As I've said before, I'd rather have a small pocketable phone that excelled at phone calls (especially via Bluetooth) and have the Foleo for email/internet/whatever. For me most of the time I don't read email on the Treo unless it is just a few lines long. It is just to painful not to mention it's text only. Browsing the web doesn't even begin to compare to the iPhone. On the Foleo all this becomes much easier to do. If Sprint has success with it's WiMax roll out and the WiMax chip gets embedded like Sprint and Intel want it to be, I can see it going into a future Foleo which should result in even more connectedness and functionality.