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Topic: Exotic Moraceae (Read 1516 times)

Figs are one of the more well-known family members, globally. Mulberries are the baseline member, enjoyed by all who grow them (but commercially under-appreciated). And Artocarpus are the darlings in Tropical Fruit circles. But how many other family members are worth growing out there? Good flavor, pulp ratio and productivity. Are there any hidden gems out there, or are they mostly "collector's fruit"?

Prainea limpato looks interesting, but I don't know much about its flavor, and its pulp ratio seems low.

Treculia africana looks useful in seed production, but I've read opinions that it's not that productive or worthwhile.

Where does Myrianthus arboreus fit into all of this? I've seen it referred to as a member of this family, as an Urticacean and as a Cecropiacean. And it apparently fixes nitrogen. Regardless of taxonomy, is it worthwhile? I've got my eye out for this species.

Ramón (Brosimum alicastrum) pulp seems scant, but good. The seed seems very useful in theory, but in practice it seems to be held in low esteem by the forum members who've tasted it. Mama Cadela (B. gaudichaudii) seems much more well regarded (if at least as gum; I don't know of you can swallow it), but it seems afflicted by the Cerrado Curse.

Osage Orange (Maclura pomifera) is almost always regarded as inedible (save for the seeds, which seem like way too much work), or outright toxic (which is false). Several user comments here (http://www.eattheweeds.com/maclura-pomifera-the-edible-inedible-2/) allege the flesh to be edible under certain circumstances (prepared like breadfruit, or frost-ripened into an actual fruit, even working it into pies).

Che (M. tricuspidata) is the most well-known "Cudrania" (and still underutilized, it seems). It seems sensitive/unproductive in the tropics, but that won't stop me from trying. Cockspur Thorn (M. cochinchinensis) is an Indo-Australian relative that's said to be tasty, but it's rather hard to find. I've got two survivors from my seeds, no idea what gender. If female, I don't know of they're unproductive (or even fruit-barren) in the absence of a male, or if they fruit seedlessly like Che. M. tinctoria is also edible, but poorly known.

The South American species are of particular interest to me. I've seen 3 Helicostylis species (tomentosa, scabra, and pedunculata) referred to in the forum as being edible and tasty, but they're exceedingly rare, and apparently sensitive as seedlings. Perebea and Maquira seem similar to one another, and they look "juicy", but there's almost no info available on them. Vitor's reference to Naucleopsis ulei as being one of the best fruits he's ever tasted captivated me: I splurged on 5 trees, received 7, and ended up with 6 small-but-strong survivors (hopefully I'll have a mix of males and females among them; they're dioecious, unfortunately). I really hope it's pulpy and worthwhile as more than a collector's fruit, 'cause I'd like to spread it around if it's as good as they say. There's also this thread (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20793.0) referring to Naucleopsis (despite the title) as being tasty and pulpy.

Here's one of my N. ulei post-seedlings:

So... Which are the gems, and which are "for collectors"? Have I missed anything important?

Not sure if it would qualify as anything important but there is a close relative of Artocarpus known as Parartocarpus. It sounds like the fruit is not bad but not outstanding. I have heard it is supposed to be dioecious.

Prainea limpato is probably unsurpassed as being an outrageous-looking fruit but I don't think its flavor is as outstanding as its appearance. I've tried seeds a couple of times w/ no luck. Since it is invariably expensive & it is supposed to be dioecious, I don't think I will be trying again.

Myrianthus arboreus (you will find mention of it here as "giant yellow mulberry") seems to always get good reviews. I think I have tried seeds 4 times and got one or two seedlings that eventually faded away. Also dioecious but at least much cheaper than something like Prainea. There are a few species in this genus, holstii is also supposed to be good from what I have heard.

The South Americans sound interesting. There is one South American genus you did not mention, Batocarpus. Info is very sketchy but it sounds like it could be a good one, at least some of the species. I came across some seedlings for sale a few years back but they were pricey & since it was dioecious, I passed on them.

Friends, these Amazonian Moraceas are very good, but difficult to cultivate, they follow attached pictures of the Moraceas in discursion, I ate Batocarpus amazonica and I found a piece of crap, I did not like it.

Helicostylis need to be grown in the shade, if taking direct sun is fatal they die.

Naucleopsis Glaba, is very sweet, has a banana flavor with jackfruit, remembers marangue, as it said in the attached post, they have male and female trees with distinct fruits in each tree, similar to Lakucha.

Other interesting Brazilian Moraceas are the Taiuvas, or Amora Branca

« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 07:22:26 PM by nelesedulis »

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Thanks for posting about the Batocarpus -- you make me feel better about having passed them up. That (the inaccurate info) is the danger in accepting endorsements for something from the person trying to sell it to you.

Friends, these Amazonian Moraceas are very good, but difficult to cultivate, they follow attached pictures of the Moraceas in discursion, I ate Batocarpus amazonica and I found a piece of crap, I did not like it.

Helicostylis need to be grown in the shade, if taking direct sun is fatal they die.

Naucleopsis Glaba, is very sweet, has a banana flavor with jackfruit, remembers marangue, as it said in the attached post, they have male and female trees with distinct fruits in each tree, similar to Lakucha.

Thanks for posting about the Batocarpus -- you make me feel better about having passed them up. That (the inaccurate info) is the danger in accepting endorsements for something from the person trying to sell it to you.

Friends, these Amazonian Moraceas are very good, but difficult to cultivate, they follow attached pictures of the Moraceas in discursion, I ate Batocarpus amazonica and I found a piece of crap, I did not like it.

Helicostylis need to be grown in the shade, if taking direct sun is fatal they die.

Naucleopsis Glaba, is very sweet, has a banana flavor with jackfruit, remembers marangue, as it said in the attached post, they have male and female trees with distinct fruits in each tree, similar to Lakucha.

Other interesting Brazilian Moraceas are the Taiuvas, or Amora Branca

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Prainea limpato is probably unsurpassed as being an outrageous-looking fruit but I don't think its flavor is as outstanding as its appearance...

Myrianthus arboreus (you will find mention of it here as "giant yellow mulberry") seems to always get good reviews...

The South Americans sound interesting. There is one South American genus you did not mention, Batocarpus.

Good luck with your Naucleopsis, they are looking good.

John

Parartocarpus sounds interesting enough, but I was under the impression that its species name (P. venenosa) implied toxicity. I wonder why they named it so.

I suspected as much with P. limpato. Crazy-looking, but average. Why is it so expensive? Is it that hard to find?

I thought Myrianthus would be really hard to find and expensive. Good to know it's so accessible (and tasty, apparently). If it really is a nitrogen fixer, I'd like to integrate it into a mixed-orchard plan, like Inga Alley Cropping.

I looked up Batocarpus, and the few photos I saw of the fruits looked interesting. If there's a worthwhile species in the genus, I'd like to try it.

Thanks, I kept the N. ulei in shade for a long time. They adapted well enough to sun as a cluster of seedlings, but they're showing some slight scalding now that I've separated them. I may move them to a less sunny position soon. They were half-dead when they first arrived as seedlings, but they're tougher than they look.

Hi, Friends, these Amazonian Moraceas are very good, but difficult to cultivate, they follow attached pictures of the Moraceas in discursion, I ate Batocarpus amazonica and I found a piece of crap, I did not like it.

Helicostylis need to be grown in the shade, if taking direct sun is fatal they die.

Naucleopsis Glaba, is very sweet, has a banana flavor with jackfruit, remembers marangue, as it said in the attached post, they have male and female trees with distinct fruits in each tree, similar to Lakucha.

Other interesting Brazilian Moraceas are the Taiuvas, or Amora Branca

That's unfortunate to hear about the Batocarpus. I hope that maybe one of the other species might be more promising? Do you recall the particular nuances of its "crappy" flavor?

That piece of info on Helicostylis is gold. Now I know not to try to adapt them to full sun, when I give them a try.

Wow, the flavor for N. glaba sounds very promising. And with that confirmation of dioecy, I'm glad I splurged for the 5 (now 6) N. ulei trees.

Sounds a lot like its relatives, my M. cochinchinensis is really thorny too. Great link, btw, now I wanna get my hands on it too. Last time I tried it, I got zero germination (seeds from Germany, off eBay). And using it to fish... ingenious! Fish seem to have a sweet tooth, 'cause I've read that Muntingia can be used to fish too.

Like Myrianthus, I'm not sure it counts as Moracean (maybe Cecropiacean?), but I hear it's very tasty (and apparently with even tastier relatives). The biggest problem I've heard is its male-skewed dioecy. I've been told you could plant 5 seeds and get 5 males. I'm gonna need a bigger yard, 'cause I plan on having a grove of them.

Cecropiaceans and Urticaceans also have Mulberry-like fruits, right? Are there any other worthwhile species among them? Cecropia seems like a trail nibble (if you can find one in fruit), and Dendrocnide moroides has raspberry-like fruit (not that anyone should dare try it... I can't imagine the horror if you accidentally swallowed a stinging hair... Ugh!!!).

Great information, Myrianthus, I did not know this genus, on the seeds of Taiuva they need to be fresh to have good germination. The tree spreads by cuts as well.

Some friends of the forum are asking me about the availability of seeds of Nacleopis Glaba and Helicotys, I have seeds, but as I said in another post, I gave up the trade of seeds out of Brazil.Now I will participate just to talk about the species.

Without buying, selling or exchanging seeds.

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Very interesting tree is cows milk tree - Galactodendron (Brosimum) utile. It have edible fruits and the sap of tree have composition similar to milk of cow. Tree seems to be more sensitive to drough than Ramon.

Great information, Myrianthus, I did not know this genus, on the seeds of Taiuva they need to be fresh to have good germination. The tree spreads by cuts as well.

Some friends of the forum are asking me about the availability of seeds of Nacleopis Glaba and Helicotys, I have seeds, but as I said in another post, I gave up the trade of seeds out of Brazil.Now I will participate just to talk about the species.

Without buying, selling or exchanging seeds.

Good to know, maybe I can get rooted cuttings some day, instead of seeds. That would also solve the dioecy problem: I'd get a male and a female cutting (or several of each).

I can understand that. Shipping seems like a stressful situation, full of potential problems. As it is, Vitor had to resend my package when it got sent back to him (it came through the second time). I don't mind poor germination, that's a risk that comes with all exotic seeds, and I take it willingly. The arrival of the package is the main issue. And Brazil seems finicky with its plant-based mail recently.

That's what struck me as odd. It's a very useful species in several different ways. I've seen it described as being like boiled potatoes (when properly prepared, with alkali) or coffee, depending on its preparation; it sounds like it should be tasty. But then, I've read comparisons to Artocarpus camansi, considering this other as superior... That doesn't sound promising. There's lots of A. camansi over here, and I've eaten enough to know it's not my favorite (I have a 4-trunk combined tree, and I let the fruit go to waste). Not unpalatable, but it has a strong flavor that a lot of people aren't fond of. It's much better unripe, with a softer feel and a milder, more vegetal flavor, but it's not easy to judge this ideal point of ripeness. I've harvested smaller fruit that were fully ripe, so you can't tell if it's small at an ideal point, if it's already mature, or if it's underripe (in which case, you'll have loads of bean-sized seeds). I don't know how others view camansi on the forum, but I certainly hope B. alicastrum is better: it's one of my more desired trees.

Very interesting tree is cows milk tree - Galactodendron (Brosimum) utile. It have edible fruits and the sap of tree have composition similar to milk of cow. Tree seems to be more sensitive to drough than Ramon.

That sounds very interesting. I've heard you could use B. alicastrum's sap in a similar manner. What's utile's fruit like? And might it be graft-compatible with alicastrum? I'd like to graft gaudichaudii on alicastrum, if it could help solve the Cerrado's curse.

I suspected as much with P. limpato. Crazy-looking, but average. Why is it so expensive? Is it that hard to find?

I thought Myrianthus would be really hard to find and expensive. Good to know it's so accessible (and tasty, apparently). If it really is a nitrogen fixer, I'd like to integrate it into a mixed-orchard plan, like Inga Alley Cropping.

I don't know that Prainea is a rare fruit if you are somewhere like Borneo (I believe that other ssp occur on some Indonesian islands & PNG -- not sure if that have the same outrageous appearance as the Bornean one). However, it is not easily accessible to our forum members so the suppliers are charging what the market will bear. Someone recently posted about being able to supply seeds from Bali & Borneo. I inquired with them & they quoted me $5 /seed for the common (unremarkable) Bali salak. That salak is readily available in many areas there for about $2 / kg, which would yield at least a couple dozen seeds. So, rarity or cost of the fruit is not necessarily the driving factor behind the price -- it is what people are willing to pay.

Sorry if I implied that Myrianthus is easy to find -- it is not. We had one forum member who had offered it in the past & there was a company in Cameroon, ForestHouse, who used to supply both species I referenced. If I am recalling correctly, I think they charged $1 / seed. I suspect that they felt it was pretty good money for it & had not started to gouge on their seed prices. Their contact info should be available if you do a search for them on the forum. I have recently gotten some very confusing (& conflicting) emails from them so I am not sure that they are still doing business.

And perhaps in the future, topics about pouterias, about spondias, about other families will be cool, since it came out of the sameness.

The seeds, marked as Helicostylis are seeds of some Brosimum (may be alicastrum). I have seeds of Helicostylis tomentosa and they look like the seeds marked as Naucleopsis in your picture. They are abou 4 times smaller than that of Brosimum. I will take the picture from my young plants.

Please read what I wrote, Helicostylis Bolivariensis, is a subspecies of Brosimum Alicastrum, a synonym, since it was a different species, as the typical form was of central america, South American was considered a distinct species, but later became synonymous . What differs is the fruit of H. Boivariensis is larger and the bark is different from the Alicastrum Brosimum, I have seen both fruits and they are different, the size of the HB tree is much larger 30 m, the leaves are different too.

In 2014 I collected fruits from H Bolivariensis near Manaus and I had the fruits in hand but if you want to call B.Alicastrum for me there is no problem at all but visually and physically for me are plants with differences.

About Naucleopis Glaba, it was this scientific name that was informed to me, and guaranteed 100 percent, in 2014 I had this fruit in my hands, another species, from Naucleopis, that we could not identify at the time, I brought seeds at the time I made seedlings more Died.The seeds are very similar.It's the same thing as posting a photo of marang seed and the person on the other side of the world saying it's Pingan's seed ... they look alike but ....

About Helicostylis tomentosa, I do not know, if you know, there are two types, one from the Amazon, which is in the photos, and there is the one from southeastern Brazil, and they have differences between the trees, the Southeastern Brazil has the thin trunk. The southeast has the slightly larger fruit and white pulp, it is locally called Mururé, small jackfruit, milk jaca ... etc.

Here also in the southeast of Brazil we have another native species of Brosimum, but with smaller fruits than B.Alicastrum, São A Brosimum Glazovii, local name Mama Cadela (different from the other species of Mama Cadela (Brosimum gaudichaudii), green fruits and bitter seeds !

Anyway the debate is good, they are very restricted species and always good new stories.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 06:37:42 PM by nelesedulis »

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I was surprised only with that Helicostylis as synonym for Brosimum . It is new thing for me. Anyway, one or another, they are very interesting trees not only for their fruits but also for pharmacological substances.

I was surprised only with that Helicostylis as synonym for Brosimum . It is new thing for me. Anyway, one or another, they are very interesting trees not only for their fruits but also for pharmacological substances.

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I don't know that Prainea is a rare fruit if you are somewhere like Borneo (I believe that other ssp occur on some Indonesian islands & PNG -- not sure if that have the same outrageous appearance as the Bornean one). However, it is not easily accessible to our forum members so the suppliers are charging what the market will bear. Someone recently posted about being able to supply seeds from Bali & Borneo. I inquired with them & they quoted me $5 /seed for the common (unremarkable) Bali salak. That salak is readily available in many areas there for about $2 / kg, which would yield at least a couple dozen seeds. So, rarity or cost of the fruit is not necessarily the driving factor behind the price -- it is what people are willing to pay.

Sorry if I implied that Myrianthus is easy to find -- it is not. We had one forum member who had offered it in the past & there was a company in Cameroon, ForestHouse, who used to supply both species I referenced. If I am recalling correctly, I think they charged $1 / seed. I suspect that they felt it was pretty good money for it & had not started to gouge on their seed prices. Their contact info should be available if you do a search for them on the forum. I have recently gotten some very confusing (& conflicting) emails from them so I am not sure that they are still doing business.

John

Yep, I get that. I'm willing to pay a pretty penny myself (if I have the cash) if I feel a fruit has potential. But if all it has to its name is a funky look, I hold out a bit longer before adding to my collection.

Not easy? Even better. That'll make tracking it down a bit harder (thanks for the leads, by the way), but it means I get the chance to spread something uncommon to others, and help make it more accessible (if I do succeed in obtaining it). With rare species, one can only hope to get something that's actually worthwhile (and it sounds like this one is).

And perhaps in the future, topics about pouterias, about spondias, about other families will be cool, since it came out of the sameness.

Oh yes, we need threads for all of those topics, and more. The diversity of fruit trees available is incredible, and I think each family deserves a spot as a topic of discussion. There's so much to be learned, and every forum member's contribution is a piece of information gold. You can't buy the experience that each person has here, it's all so amazing.

Those roots look like they would benefit from a Mycorrhizal application. Better yet, a sample of native soil. The tree would probably grow vigorously like that.

I was surprised only with that Helicostylis as synonym for Brosimum . It is new thing for me. Anyway, one or another, they are very interesting trees not only for their fruits but also for pharmacological substances.

Sounds to me like a case of old literature vs new literature (perhaps one genus was split from the other, and then they were muddled a bit). Perhaps H. bolivarensis was the original name, and maybe it more properly belongs to the Brosimum genus. A junior synonym?

In 2014 I collected fruits from H Bolivariensis near Manaus and I had the fruits in hand but if you want to call B.Alicastrum for me there is no problem at all but visually and physically for me are plants with differences.

About Helicostylis tomentosa, I do not know, if you know, there are two types, one from the Amazon, which is in the photos, and there is the one from southeastern Brazil, and they have differences between the trees, the Southeastern Brazil has the thin trunk. The southeast has the slightly larger fruit and white pulp, it is locally called Mururé, small jackfruit, milk jaca ... etc.

Here also in the southeast of Brazil we have another native species of Brosimum, but with smaller fruits than B.Alicastrum, São A Brosimum Glazovii, local name Mama Cadela (different from the other species of Mama Cadela (Brosimum gaudichaudii), green fruits and bitter seeds !

Anyway the debate is good, they are very restricted species and always good new stories.

What do H. bolivarensis and B. alicastrum taste like out of hand? And does H. bolivarensis have similar culinary applications as B. alicastrum (with the seed and everything)?

That, I did not know, but it sounds interesting. Two distinct genetic variants. Is one considered superior to the other? And which H. tomentosa was presented in your photo? Other pictures reminded me of Maclura (Cudrania), superficially, but the fruit in your picture looked vaguely reminiscent of Castilla fruit (which is a close relative, so it makes sense).

Brosimum glazovii? What is that fruit like? Chewed like the Cerrado relative, or eaten? And is it sensitive too?