We lost but there are some positives ... I actually switch off the video after Ash's out and had to follow Chacha and Taposh's heroic in slow cricinfo. I think except the last over Chacha did pretty well and Tapsoh as always gave 100% effort. Wish Nafees, Ash and others will have a talk with Taposh (instead of Dravid, Sachin, Dada) to know how to give 100%. Rajin's batting was another positive and did not see him in such commanding form.

AsifTheManRahman

January 20, 2005, 11:25 AM

these positives mean nothing when ur going in there as the favorites, and come out with your head hung low.

DJ Sahastra

January 20, 2005, 11:30 AM

Someone posted the bowling figures for BD bowlers and i see that Alok, with 40 runs in 10 overs has bowled much better than the rest of the pack.

In fact, it is quite an economical figure for an ODI in which the opposition scores 250+.

I fail to understand all the "drop Alok" chants. It seems he had a worthwhile contribution with the ball, and failed with the bat.

I didn't follow the game so am i asking you, did i miss something?

jeesh

January 20, 2005, 11:33 AM

Fielding was great! Feel we saved 20 runs minimum. Bowling was fairly decent. But Rafique and Mashrafee should plug in the hole in the team.

Spitfire_x86

January 20, 2005, 11:40 AM

Rajin's batting as opener is the most important positive thing we've got from this match (even though he threw his wicket away)

aosaif

January 20, 2005, 11:51 AM

Alok needs to score decent consistent innings of 30s. Then we can keep him

akabir77

January 20, 2005, 11:58 AM

Alok is in the team as a batsman not a bowler..... So if he wants to stay he should score some runs.....

bondhu25

January 20, 2005, 12:10 PM

Does any one know why Chigumbura was removed from the bowling attack on 48th over? I could not follow last part of BD batting as I had to goto work in the morning (in USA it was morning when BD was batting)...

Other posible positive:
1. If the selectors start learning from their mistakes in this game.

Darkwarrior

January 20, 2005, 12:19 PM

Lets hope bangladesh improve in the next match . The top order batsman really need to play well

bondhu25

January 20, 2005, 12:19 PM

Aftab should be replaced for 2nd ODI.. Mashrafee/Rafique can easily replaced Aftab. They are both "all rounder" for ODI. Aftab is a burden for the team at this moment. I dont see much need for Alok either... We have to win the ODI series..So no chance for experiments !!!!!... Selectors: are you listening?????

Ahmed_B

January 20, 2005, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by DJ Sahastra
Someone posted the bowling figures for BD bowlers and i see that Alok, with 40 runs in 10 overs has bowled much better than the rest of the pack.

In fact, it is quite an economical figure for an ODI in which the opposition scores 250+.

I fail to understand all the "drop Alok" chants. It seems he had a worthwhile contribution with the ball, and failed with the bat.

I didn't follow the game so am i asking you, did i miss something?
Yes u r right.. alok bowled much better and tighter than the Genuin Bowlers... and frankly speaking, I was impressed!

but actually, the reason he is looking better is that the 'Genuin bowlers' failed to do their job.. and bowled wayward! Alok's selection was more based on his ability as a 'Strokeplaying Batsmen' and he totally failed to do that.

But he was actually selected back in the team coz he scored a numeber of 70+ scores in the very recently finished domestic league... so he was taken to be back in form... which he showed, atleast in this match, that he isnt!

AsifTheManRahman

January 20, 2005, 01:19 PM

many ppl score 70+ innings in domestic matches...IMO, unless it isn't a story of utter domination, those ppl should not be considered in the national team.

akabir77

January 20, 2005, 01:24 PM

Chigumbura bowled two short balls in that over... Bowler in odi r allowed to ball only one so umps removed him...

CTazim

January 20, 2005, 01:31 PM

IMHO, I think we could have still won had it not been for the unfortunate run out of Shujon.

allrounder

January 20, 2005, 02:19 PM

Did anyone see Nazmul's runout? It was hilarious.

abu_akif

January 20, 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by DJ Sahastra
Someone posted the bowling figures for BD bowlers and i see that Alok, with 40 runs in 10 overs has bowled much better than the rest of the pack.

In fact, it is quite an economical figure for an ODI in which the opposition scores 250+.

I fail to understand all the "drop Alok" chants. It seems he had a worthwhile contribution with the ball, and failed with the bat.

I didn't follow the game so am i asking you, did i miss something?

Look, when Rana does well with bat, then people comment that he is supposed to do better with ball, because thats his job. IN case of Alok, the same should apply. He is in the team as a batsman, so he should perform in batting, a bowling performance does not really help anything..

Spitfire_x86

January 20, 2005, 03:57 PM

Rana sux, there's no doubt about it. We may not need Alok in the team, but why do we must have Rana?

Alok did fairly well with ball, and he got only one chance with bat after his comeback in International Cricket. Why not give him one or couple more chances?

AsifTheManRahman

January 20, 2005, 03:58 PM

and would you care to back your statement about rana up with some logical argument?

Spitfire_x86

January 20, 2005, 04:02 PM

Rana usually doesn't do very well with ball unless Rafique keeps the pressure on.

And with bat, how many times he have made significant impact on our score? I don't remember more than one occasion when he opened at last ODI of Zimbabwe tour.

Alok when he was at his best, he showed that he's capable of doing far better than Rana with bat. And if he can bowl like today in more matches, why we should ever consider Rana instead of him?

Edited on, January 20, 2005, 9:05 PM GMT, by Spitfire_x86.

Spitfire_x86

January 20, 2005, 04:04 PM

Rana is the spinner (and left handed) version of Mushfique. His fading away will be just matter of time.

He's already proved useless in test. Now it's time for him to make place for others in ODI.

AsifTheManRahman

January 20, 2005, 04:09 PM

rana never got as many opporutnities as alok. if you want performance, you have to give the guy a chance to play regularly. he was thrown out and brought back in on numerous occassions. the positives you mentioned about alok apply to what he WAS, and not what he IS NOW.

BD Tigers

January 20, 2005, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by akabir77
Chigumbura bowled two short balls in that over... Bowler in odi r allowed to ball only one so umps removed him...

Giving two short balls will not make an umpire remove the bowler. He will just give No balls for the extra bouncers. The bowler gave 2 beamers to the batsmen. That was the reason.

who do you prefer - a highly talented batsman who can't perform in the field or a hard working, class less bloke whose average is better than most accomplished batsmen (and almost as good as some of the better bowlers) in the side?

to me, class has no meaning if it is not backed up by performance

AsifTheManRahman

January 20, 2005, 04:16 PM

btw: source - cricinfo

AsifTheManRahman

January 20, 2005, 04:22 PM

even his first class stats are better than alok's - go to cricinfo if you wanna see...i'm feeling too lazy to post it here.

I can't agree with a lot of you. Don't really think there any positives. We went in as favorites and I fear BD cricketers may have given let advantage slop away. Selectors made th mistake but our "STAR" batsmen screwed up even more. I rekon Bangladesh could've and should've won this game even with this team.

What is most disturbing is that all of these guys got a good start, got into thier 30's anf 40's then gave their wickets away, like so many times before. Sure, this is just one game but this is a disturbing trend and keeps repeating. And against a week attack at that. They played like they didn't really care. This was a batsmen's game and our batsmen gave it away.

Kaled Mahmud bowled the 46th, 48th and the 50th over and went for 7,8 and 15 (?) runs respectively, 30 runs from 3 overs against tailenders. Why wasn't Taposh given a go when he had 4 overs left is beyond me.

Zimbabwe is a talented team albeit young and inexperinced team. When you gift them this kind of a win they'll only grow more confident make our jobs more difficult.

I would urge our boys not to act like spoiled brat mega stars just because we won a test match and take any team lightly. And go back to the basics.

reyme

January 20, 2005, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Spitfire_x86
Rana usually doesn't do very well with ball unless Rafique keeps the pressure on.

And with bat, how many times he have made significant impact on our score? I don't remember more than one occasion when he opened at last ODI of Zimbabwe tour.

Alok when he was at his best, he showed that he's capable of doing far better than Rana with bat. And if he can bowl like today in more matches, why we should ever consider Rana instead of him?

Edited on, January 20, 2005, 9:05 PM GMT, by Spitfire_x86.

Spitfire, I am shocked!!! Is rafiq bowling for Rana?! First of all, without significant performance how come Rana's avg is better than others? In fact, as I found out from cricinfo, Rana's ODI batting avg is the BEST in the current national side, & yes that includes Bashar as well. His batting avg in TEST is 2nd/3rd best in the current team.

Rana is probably one of the most consistent ODI performers, yet sidelined. Because of his success, he was tried from #8 to all all the way up in the batting order and showed consistency. Rana also bowled very good, and most times Alok was not even tried as a bowler. His place in the team for his batting, but he was coprehensevily beaten by Rana, Here's how when these 2 players played together:

The way I see is, Rana is one true fighter who gives his heart and soul. Even when he struggles he plays like a true fighter. He might not be as popular to journalists, sports writers or selectors as Alok Kapali, but with his dedication and hard work he simply outperformed most of his team mates.

feisal

January 20, 2005, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
rana never got as many opporutnities as alok. if you want performance, you have to give the guy a chance to play regularly. he was thrown out and brought back in on numerous occassions. the positives you mentioned about alok apply to what he WAS, and not what he IS NOW.

** can u please clarify whether u are treatiung rana as a batsman or a all-rounder.. we may be comparing apple and orange...

Haradhon

January 20, 2005, 11:59 PM

A few thoughts about our spinners: Rafiq is by far the most economic bowler; when he checks the runs, it creates pressure on our opponents. Enam, Jr. gives his deliveries nice loops to lure batsmen, and in the long run will mature to our best strike spinner. Rana as a bowler does not make it to the level of these two, however, his batting figures are better because of his "not out" situation. What we need is a good Off Break bowlers - anybody remembers Fahim Muntasir or Shabbir?

fab

January 21, 2005, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by couger
What is most disturbing is that all of these guys got a good start, got into thier 30's anf 40's then gave their wickets away, like so many times before. Sure, this is just one game but this is a disturbing trend and keeps repeating. And against a week attack at that. They played like they didn't really care. This was a batsmen's game and our batsmen gave it away.
It's almost as if they are so used to playing under pressure, that they had to create some for this game.. :umm:

I also think our bowlers need some training on how to bowl the last 5 overs. Remember the 1st ODI against India? We lost by 11 runs, and gave away 40+ run in the last 3-4 overs.

Ahmed_B

January 21, 2005, 12:20 AM

Rana is neither a Genuin Bowler.. nor a Pure Batsman... he is a bit of this and a bit of that.. and he has to make room for himself in the team as an ALLROUNDER only!

He is a fighter and a good allrounder.. but its a mistake to compare him with Rajjak/Enamul/Najmul or any other bowler..

Its also a mistake to compare him with Aftab/Alok or any other Batsmen!..

He is comparable with allrounders like Chacha/Mushfiq only.. and he has to beat them for getting in the team.

Tehsin

January 21, 2005, 12:26 AM

Fahim Muntasir Sumit is out of favor ith the national selectors and really hasn't had much oportunity to prove himself in the highest level. Lik Razzak and Rana, he can also bat a little. Good enough to replace a struggling Alok but I won't take him in the national team yet. He is a good candidate for the conditioning camp for the A team that will tour India.

Sabbir Ahmad is I believe te young player you are referring to. Played for CTG and not sure which Dhaka League team. Thanks to BCB's mismanagement the Dhaka league has lost some following and the National League is still Lapatta (How will we even become a serious cricketing nation with such unprof. ?). Sabbir can also bat a bit. Someone mentioned the other day that since most of us start out in parar cricket and do both batting and bowling, we get a lot of these semi-allrounders in the sub continent.

As for the Rana vs Kapali issue. Rana is a much for reliable player and if I were selecting the side, I'd pick him over Kapali until Kaps gets his at together. One thing some of you may have forgotten is that Kaps was originally picked as a bowler who turned out to be a potential allrounder but ended up becoming a promising ('talented) batsmen. We really don't know what he is at this moment becaue even he doesn't know what he wants to be when he 'grows' up. Talent is overrated when it comes to our national team.

nasifkhan

January 21, 2005, 12:46 AM

There are no positives to be taken from this match.

Shob gula worthless.....specially Ashraful, Alok, Aftab...

PoorFan

January 21, 2005, 01:12 AM

The problem is to set a strategy and target for each and every game as well as each and every player.
Player should clearly understand the strategy and his target thoroughly and accomplish his part to fulfill the teamwork.
The couch and the captain should instruct each player while they are in the bench waiting for bat according to game situation.
In the field, conceding each and every run is crucial for ODI, so why hesitate to change bowler after a costly over?
Especially in the ending overs need to tight bowling which must be on target, but not necessarily need to go for wicket.
Captain and bowlers as well as senior players should talk about these kind of situation before each game start.
They may discuss and get a common understanding how to handle opponent's batsman in the game as well as ending overs.
All of these are common understanding and teamwork, I wonder how and whether they do it to bring the result in favor.

The result will come only if the teamwork has done properly, otherwise almost every time we will be a loser for sure.
Combination of couple of players or rotation of couple of players will never ever bring the result which we are looking for.

mahbubH

January 21, 2005, 01:47 AM

Sumit played for Brothers this year and did nothing special. He also got his chance against visiting teams (e.g. England) and did not show good performance. I don't think selectors can select him based on this performance unless he is very promosing. Hope he will come back.... he still <30.

Sabbir khan plays for DOHS. Though he was not regular in that team he got a chance to play visiting SL team this year. Did not see any good performance from him this year. I know he has some good score in national league but don't hink he is of international material.

Ahmed_B

January 21, 2005, 02:52 AM

Surely there are positives... but you probably will fail to find them if u look at the BD side. I found far more positives for BD watching the ZIMs way of playing this ODI. And yes, the weaknesses that they have disclosed are our real positives form this match, I will say. Some observations:

ZIM Batting
#_Their top-order seemed to be fragile against ODI new ball bowling. We managed to get them 14/2 even though failed to continue the pressure.
#_Good news that even steel-nerve Taibu seemed impatient under ODI pressure..
#_Like the BD batsmen... each and every single one of the ZIMs looked like giving away wickets after getting set –a very good sign for BD.. if they can dig through this weakness in further matches!
#_Our slower bowlers (Mahmud/Kapali/Aftab) could restrict their high scoring rates and force them to get impatient and give away wickets.
ZIM Bowling
#_Speaking Frankly, none of their first 3 bowlers looked like penetrating or economic for ODIs... they all bowled wayward giving BD ample lose balls to score off. It probably has something to do with their age/lack of experience that got them too excited and bowl poorly. Hondo & Utseya was impressive.. no doubt!
ZIM Fielding
#_Must say it was poor.. bad throws, missing catches after catches... all can go totally BD’s way (and it did even in the 1 st ODI). It showed the young side's fumbling shakeyness under the ODI pressure ... which we could think of exploiting.

Verdict about ODI-1 : A poor show of bad cricket by both the teams:cool:
ZIMs batted in a very shaky way... yet they reached 251 because of our poor bowling/fielding/captaincy. With a spirited tightened grip by the BD side we could have had them 210/10 most probably!
BD, after a Fantastic Blasting start, gave away all the advantages and put themselves under huge pressure of getting all-out below 200! Then again, a poor show of bowling/fielding by the ZIMs came with wayward bowling & drop catches... allowing BD to almost threaten their safe position. With this type of Batting-senselessness, BD would lose the game by atleast (even after the blast by Mahmud-Tapash) 70/80 runs, had they played vs. the top professional sides with decent bowling/fielding.

Originally posted by feisal
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
rana never got as many opporutnities as alok. if you want performance, you have to give the guy a chance to play regularly. he was thrown out and brought back in on numerous occassions. the positives you mentioned about alok apply to what he WAS, and not what he IS NOW.

** can u please clarify whether u are treatiung rana as a batsman or a all-rounder.. we may be comparing apple and orange...

i'd include him as an allrounder. however, it doesnt matter in this comparison - either way he's better than alok.

AsifTheManRahman

January 21, 2005, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by crickethorizon
Rana is neither a Genuin Bowler.. nor a Pure Batsman... he is a bit of this and a bit of that.. and he has to make room for himself in the team as an ALLROUNDER only!

He is a fighter and a good allrounder.. but its a mistake to compare him with Rajjak/Enamul/Najmul or any other bowler..

Its also a mistake to compare him with Aftab/Alok or any other Batsmen!..

He is comparable with allrounders like Chacha/Mushfiq only.. and he has to beat them for getting in the team.

yeah so we kicked out mushfique right? why can't we have rana in his place then?

Ahmed_B

January 21, 2005, 12:15 PM

because we still got Chacha in the team.. so he cant be in ODI's... and we got Rafiq/Enamul/Rajin/Ashraful's spin bowling for the tests, which is doing fine.. and Rana's batting alone isn't good enough to get him in the test-team coz very recently we hav had Nafees/Aftab/Mashrafee entering the team with batting depth which has filled up some good positions!

This situation did not exist even 6 monthes back... so Rana was an automatic choice..

Edited on, January 21, 2005, 5:19 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.

AsifTheManRahman

January 21, 2005, 12:31 PM

but we used to have two allrounders together before right? we used to have mushfique and chacha together.

AsifTheManRahman

January 21, 2005, 12:32 PM

and who's talking about tests here?

Ahmed_B

January 21, 2005, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
but we used to have two allrounders together before right? we used to have mushfique and chacha together.
yes right.. thats wht I wrote in preivous post:
"very recently we hav had Nafees/Aftab/Mashrafee entering the team with batting depth which has filled up some good positions (same in ODI too)!...This situation did not exist even 6 monthes back... so Rana was an automatic choice.."

Currently we got Mashrafee/Tapash/Mahmud doing fantastic as Allrounders... and I read somewhere that even Enamul is good with bat (he will soon hav his debut in ODI.. no doubt)..

So if u stop argueing like a 'Blind-Rana-Fan' and sit with a paper and pen and try to work out a place for Rana.. even you will find it difficult!

About Rana Replacing Alok: When Masree/Rafiq r fit to play.. even Alok wont hav a chance anymore if Aftab is kept in team.

Let me know if u can work out something.. coz I also like Rana.. ;)

shovon13

January 21, 2005, 01:37 PM

yes alok has been given a lot of chance....BEFORE!! in case you guys haven't heard that....i'll repeat myself...THAT WAS MONTHS AGO! then he was dropped, and now he's given a fresh start. now, we're asking for his head after only ONE game. please dont bring back the "endless chance" chant again. he just got back in form (yes thats what i believe, and it would've been perfect had he not been injured and not been out of cricket for like a month), so give the damn kid some time.

and on the case of rana vs. alok. we dont need a batsman who'll just hold up one end of the crease (which i dont even think rana can do consistently)...not against zimbabwe. all our other batsmen can easily occupy the crease against this bowling attack if they want to (proof: 2nd inning dhaka test). we need batsmen who can occupy the crease AND score at a brisk rate. like rajin, ash, bashar. do not tell me rana can do that.

rana is a good selection for a team trying to be competitive with other teams, not for a team trying to win against other teams.

Edited on, January 21, 2005, 6:38 PM GMT, by shovon13.

AsifTheManRahman

January 21, 2005, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by crickethorizon
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
but we used to have two allrounders together before right? we used to have mushfique and chacha together.
yes right.. thats wht I wrote in preivous post:
"very recently we hav had Nafees/Aftab/Mashrafee entering the team with batting depth which has filled up some good positions (same in ODI too)!...This situation did not exist even 6 monthes back... so Rana was an automatic choice.."

Currently we got Mashrafee/Tapash/Mahmud doing fantastic as Allrounders... and I read somewhere that even Enamul is good with bat (he will soon hav his debut in ODI.. no doubt)..

So if u stop argueing like a 'Blind-Rana-Fan' and sit with a paper and pen and try to work out a place for Rana.. even you will find it difficult!

About Rana Replacing Alok: When Masree/Rafiq r fit to play.. even Alok wont hav a chance anymore if Aftab is kept in team.

Let me know if u can work out something.. coz I also like Rana.. ;)

well i really don't intend to argue like a blind rana fan...in fact i AM no rana fan in the first place - i just want what is good for the team...

because even any cricket murkho would agree that rana should've played instead of alok in the first odi ;)

and yes, i agree that when masri/rafique/enamul come in, there will be no place for rana or alok. i never said that i wanted rana in the team permanently; but yesterday, we should have played rana instead of alok.

Scandicricketer

January 21, 2005, 05:57 PM

I think we lost the match when we could not capitalize the let offs we got from the Zim fielders.Rajin,Bashar and Ashraful our top order,all of them got lifes.It was a gettable target in that placid wicket.We can still keep Alok Kapali as an allrounder.Just wondering who gonna replace Aftab?And finally Bashar sucks as a captain.Bring back Mashud as the captain so Bashar can concentrate on his batting.We were missing Rafique and Mashrafee.Hope they are fit enough to play at Chittagong.

reyme

January 21, 2005, 06:02 PM

I agree with ATMR. Rana is a great replacement for struggling Aftab and Alok. Now I did not forget about Aftab's heroics against India. But so far in 5 innings against ZIM (tests+1 day) Aftab is just not clicking. Either he is not confortable with ZIM's bowling or out of form. About Alok, although he is a great #6 player, I can assre you Rana will bring more value.

Now lets play him next game and we will see.

reyme

January 21, 2005, 06:06 PM

Looks like Prothom-alo reporter did not find any +ves from 1st ODI. He said there were just too many mistakes. I agree.

cricketfan

January 22, 2005, 02:53 AM

BD can talk about positives when they face a much stronger side where they are expected to lose. Here they were the favourites and they were expected to win. Under these circumstances, there are likely to be more negatives than positives to talk off.

I feel that toss will play a vital role in this series. Whichever team wins the toss will bat first. Unless the side battting first messes up very badly, it will have a decent chance of winning if they can put on a tidy total of about 250 runs. Neither of the two sides has the temperament to successfully chase a decent target.

Zimbabwe batsmen are very inexperienced in the art of batting in ODI. Everyone of them, even Taibu and Taylor thinks that giving the ball a mighty whack is the only way to score in an ODI. They do not know how to milk the bowling in the middle overs by rotating strikes. Following their batting on cricinfo may give the impression that the Zimbabwe batsmen were rotating strike, but following the batting on TV, it was clear that they were throwing their bats and hoping to clear the ropes. If they were lucky, the ball was going in gaps and they were able to pick singles. It was more by chance and less by design. If they had the ability to rotate the strike, they would have not gifted their wickets to Chacha and they could have ended up with a much higher total.

As for BD batting, it was complacence and arrogance that caused the downfall of Nafis iqbal and Rajin who chose the wrong balls to hit and scooped catches. In the middle over Utseya and Hondo bowled superbly and the asking rate started mounting as they claimed five wickets between them. From that time, it was always going to be an uphill task for BD.

Both teams are inexperienced in ODI. Zimbabwe showed their inexperience in their inability to rotate the strike, whereas BD batsmen showed that they are not good chasers. Chasing is a difficult skill as it has to be performed under severe pressure and the BD batsmen failed to cope with it. Though it should be said to their credit that unlike earlier chases, where they just tried to reduce the margin of defeat, this time they were actually going for a win. The fact that they got all out while doing that, shows that they tried to chase. After a few more efforts, they could well pull off a successful chase. That would count as a positive.

Edited on, January 22, 2005, 7:56 AM GMT, by cricketfan.

feisal

January 22, 2005, 06:49 AM

because even any cricket murkho would agree that rana should've played instead of alok in the first odi ;)[/quote]

** but that is exactly the point that we have been arguing.. in other words, there are many of us who do NOT agree .. How can we?? when u are comparing a genuine batsman (with some bowling) with a tid- bit player!!!

sham1980

January 22, 2005, 03:51 PM

I saw Rana play he can be a decent spinner at times and can bat ok he has no special batting skills may be we need just one player like that who just sits there but he cant field though. BUt he is a happy passiionate cricketer... there are few criketers who are worse than him.

feisal

January 22, 2005, 04:13 PM

i was thinking how many of us have seen Rana/Aftab/
kapali batting on TV/ground????

it can make a significant difference... is our judgment based on cricinfo or just sdtatistics (which never shows when runs are scored under loosing cause..) For example, aftab's 49 ball 30 in the first one dayers set the tone for the rest od the series.. which one can't tell by looking at the scoreboard..