No, the part where it clearly shows Engo moving at the last second when if he just would have stood still he would have blocked the shot. Also the part where it shows MAF moving around before the shot trying to get a view of it.

The Snapshot wrote:I'm not trying to be a ****, but I just don't understand how a team that gives up 5 shots in the 3rd doesn't get any credit. Toronto was storming too. Fleury again gives up 2 softies at a minimum. The D played well again, and they won 3 periods on the road.

The goalies need to be a LOT better. The D cannot allow 0 shots.....

The Pens gave up a lot of scoring chances in the third period. A lot. Not all of them turned into shots on net but the Leafs were all over the Pens in the third, especially late. And the PK contines to get worse every game. That is a major problem. And the Pens don't seem to notice because Bylsma keeps sending out the exact same PKers every single time.

Look, you might not think this team has a big problem and you might not have an issue with how they play, that's fine. But you have to be honest here. It is now the norm for this team to give up at least 3 goals every single game. This isn't just some poor strech of defense. It is every single game the team gives up loads of goals. The only reason we contine to win is beause we have high level talent. And you also have to admit that the type of games the Penguins have been playing for a year now are not the types of games that are played in the postseason.

You simply cannot be this bad at keeping the puck out of your net and do anything in the playoffs.

And I stand by the fact that you cannot stop all shots and when your goalie is this god-awful they are going to end with a red light. That is fact, and the out of town crews in every game (which you may not hear but I do in NJ) have ALL said that. This team is surrendering goals every game because they have gone about 10 without a solid goalie game. The PK isn't good either, but JVRs goal was an easy stop if Fleury has his stick in 1st Pee Wee camp position.

You can't judge a team's team D when the goalie leaks every night. If I allow myself to think about a nightmare in the 1st round this year I am MOST concerned about Fleury. I honestly thought Vokoun was going to offer a potential for Fleury to be hooked if he is as terrible again this year as he was against the Flyers, but he has been a mess as well.

ONE of them needs to get it together.

and I guess it's a coincidence that Vokoun is going to have his worst season statistically BY FAR playing in this system and in front of this defense....

Vokoun's career averages vs this season....

2.56 gaa vs 3.32.917 sv% vs .890

Vokoun has never had a goals against average of over 3 in a season.... until he came to Pittsburgh

Nice stats.

Are you seriously telling me Vokoun has been ANY good of late? Look at the goals and tell me that if he played the way he did in Florida where he built those stats that they end up in the net.

Those stats are meaningless because he REGULARLY stood on his head behind a horrific Florida team and and an outgunned Nashville team. If he faced 45 shots right now he would give up 10.

A large part of being a goalie is confidence. And I can guarantee you Vokoun, Fleury, or anyone else you put back in net for the Penguins is going to lack confidence with how often they are hung out to dry and given little help.

It's rare to have a game where the goalie isnt asked to stand on his head to only have 1 or 2 goals allowed. It's just not reasonable. When is the last time the Penguins skaters played a game that made it an easy night for the goalies?

Snapshot is right about out-of-town commentators being far more critical of Fleury than locals. All you have to do is listen to Canadian talk shows when the subject comes up after the guy has yielded a bunch of goals. All of our local pundits do nothing but defend Fleury no matter what and they disparage callers and fans who want to criticize him. It shows what a winsome and likeable personality will do for an athlete, shield him from criticism.

The Pens did not give up an exhorbitant number of scoring chances tonight. A reasonably hot NHL goalie yields 0-2 goals against the Leafs tonight. Every other NHL goalie would have prevented that first goal.

GenoMachino71 wrote:A large part of being a goalie is confidence. And I can guarantee you Vokoun, Fleury, or anyone else you put back in net for the Penguins is going to lack confidence with how often they are hung out to dry and given little help.

It's rare to have a game where the goalie isnt asked to stand on his head to only have 1 or 2 goals allowed. It's just not reasonable. When is the last time the Penguins skaters played a game that made it an easy night for the goalies?

Nice story, except it falls apart tonight. They gave up 20 shots in regulation on the road. They have consistently given their goalies leads to work with as well.

There was no "hanging out to dry" tonight or in Philly, or against Philly at home either.

In fact, to the contrary, this team continues to OVERCOME subpar goaltending.

Bathgate wrote:Snapshot is right about out-of-town commentators being far more critical of Fleury than locals. All you have to do is listen to Canadian talk shows when the subject comes up after the guy has yielded a bunch of goals. All of our local pundits do nothing but defend Fleury no matter what and they disparage callers and fans who want to criticize him. It shows what a winsome and likeable personality will do for an athlete, shield him from criticism.

The Pens did not give up an exhorbitant number of scoring chances tonight. A reasonably hot NHL goalie yields 0-2 goals against the Leafs tonight. Every other NHL goalie would have prevented that first goal.

Seems like the locals like to run with the party line, and while the Pens have the odd brainfart in terms of coverage they can and have played pretty soundly of late.

The PK is terrible. The goaltending is terrible. Those two improve, so does the GA.

Bathgate wrote:The Pens did not give up an exhorbitant number of scoring chances tonight. A reasonably hot NHL goalie yields 0-2 goals against the Leafs tonight. Every other NHL goalie would have prevented that first goal.

I agree MAF looked shaky tonight. I think his confidence is in the toilet right now. I will disagree that every other Nhl goalie would have stopped that 1st goal. JVR was parked quite comfortably in front him, and re-directed the initial shot. Any goalie who stopped the redirect on that would have done so by pure luck. Fleury was in good position for the initial shot. JVR should not be allowed to park himself in front like that, without taking a beating for it.

Come someone explain to me why it has to be either the defense isn't playing well or the goalie isn't playing well and not both? Jesus. Yes, they only gave up 26 shots, but come on, there was a guy in Fleury's lap on two of the goals. The goal that tied the game was just a fluke bounce (granted with the 4th line out there), but it happens. It's allowed to be both.

The Penguins are now 25 in the league in Goals Allowed with 75. They are now officially giving up exactly 3 goals per game. They are 23rd in PK and sliding fast. This play has been going on for a year now.

Is it a coincidence that MAF, Johnson, and now Vokoun have all struggled mightly at times over the past year or so playing behind this team?

So yes, to me it is pretty dang plain as day that this teams mindset and gameplan is not geared towards playing sound defense. And if it is, then that's a whole another problem.

dman66 wrote:Come someone explain to me why it has to be either the defense isn't playing well or the goalie isn't playing well and not both? Jesus. Yes, they only gave up 26 shots, but come on, there was a guy in Fleury's lap on two of the goals. The goal that tied the game was just a fluke bounce (granted with the 4th line out there), but it happens. It's allowed to be both.

Of course it can be both. And tonight it was both for sure.

Just looking at shots against is not smart. Its scoring chances. And the Leafs had plenty of high quality scoring chances in tonights game. A lot of them that didn't register as shots on net.

Jamie wrote:JVR was parked quite comfortably in front him, and re-directed the initial shot. Any goalie who stopped the redirect on that would have done so by pure luck. Fleury was in good position for the initial shot. JVR should not be allowed to park himself in front like that, without taking a beating for it.

This is just incorrect. Any goalie should have stopped it with appropriate technique. His stick needs to be in proper position, and that puck is stopped.

Ok, watched the end of the CBC broadcast on gamecenter and Letang was going to shoot third for the Pens. Geno was definitely sitting, even the shootout. I had wondered about that.

There is no doubt the pens need to be better defensively, but believe it or not i think I can see improvement over the past 3 games. they were much improved against tampa, the philly game i can't blame the defense for most of those goals MAF was horrible that game. tonight, i think the first goal is soft, the 2nd nobody in the league would have stopped and can't blame the d on that one either. the leafs got some crazy bounces on the goals tonight. at least we haven't had defensemen badly pinching in the offensive zone causing breaks the other way. there has been some improvement in the past few games as sad as that is. we'll see if there is more evidence this week.

the big measuring stick for me to see where this team is will come this week against the bruins.

also, i expect some big pickups at the deadline. last year i think shero thought we were fine and loved the team, hell everyone did for the most part. this year i think he will try frantically to fill holes.