Tuesday, June 9, 2009

Lizards and turtles and snakes, oh my!!

Today's post is brought on by an article in today's Dagbladet which, unfortunately, seems not to have been run in the online edition. The text of the article is here (in Norwegian). Thanks to my friend Dag-Erling for texting me about the article, although I had in fact seen it already on my way to work ... but it's the thought that counts. :-)

Anyway. The article is about the proposed change in legislation which will make reptiles legal as pets in this country. Or I should say, reptiles in private ownership. 'Reptiles as pets' is a misleading term. :-) At the moment, reptiles are completely illegal for anyone to own in this country except zoos with official permits. I've been planning a post about that in which I want to go into more detail on that law and its history and consequences, so I won't talk too much about that here. It's enough to know that reptiles are illegal, except for turtles, for which permits may be and are given to those who can prove allergies that prevent them from keeping furry animals (I myself am in fact allergic even though I had a dog for twelve years). Norway is pretty much unique in the world in having these restrictions. It is nonsensical and counterproductive. As I say, more on that later.

The article is about the proposed alterations to the law, and some reactions to them. The organization forced to handle the law and its consequences is called Mattilsynet ... a relatively acceptable translation of which would be, let's see ... the Food Authority? OK, so let's call them FA from now on. :-) This body, which has a very schizophrenic attitude towards the law, has been asked by the Department of Agriculture to draw up a list of species - the number was debated, but ended up on 30 - which can be kept acceptably in this country, the so-called 'positive list'. My herpetology group, the Norwegian Herpetology Association (NHF, website here) has been working with the FA to create this list for them. We of course are strongly in favor of the changes. ;-) There are other groups, though, who are strongly against ... and it's the dumbassery spouted by that side that inspired me to write this blog post today.

The FA have realized that something needs to change ... something needs to be done ... because at present, although there is a total ban on all herptile species, there are at least 100,000 reptiles in private ownership in this country. Yes, that figure is correct. One hundred thousand - and that's a conservative estimate. A huge field of animal husbandry with a high level of activity over which the authorities in this country have absolutely zero control. That is not good. I am so glad that there is leadership in the FA now that is capable of seeing that.

However, there's always another point of view. In this debate represented by Dyrevernsalliansen*, the Alliance for Animal Protection, and their fearless (and apparently brainless) leader Live Kleveland. She/they have had the highly biased and AFAIK underqualified biologist Clifford Warwick review the list. His report shows, and I quote Kleveland:Should one weird hobby really count for that much? According to a report [...]** we must accept a certain number of deaths as a consequence of allowing [these animals]. They may carry diseases that can transfer to humans, and in that case illness in humans and in some cases deaths will be inevitable. OMFG. Can she not hear herself talk?

A few years ago a little boy, I think he was seven, was pretty much torn to pieces by a pack of huskies whose outdoor enclosure left something to be desired. A tragedy, of course. But do you know what? If we're going to have extensive dog ownership in this country - and we obviously are - then some young children will be killed. We must accept a certain number of deaths as a consequence of allowing these animals. Where's the debate??

Personally, I believe that there should be restrictions on all forms of animal ownership. Today only one group, the herptiles, have any sort of restrictions on them, whereas the other groups, birds, fish, rodents, cats and of course dogs, which arguably do more damage to humans than any other species we associate closely with, are basically a free for all. IMO this is wrong. No one should be allowed to just keep whatever pets they choose unless they can prove that they can and will care for the animal acceptably. There are any number of dog owners in this country who should never have been allowed to even puppysit for a weekend. Where's the debate??

In closing, a few word from Are Hogner, owner and director of the one zoo we have here in the capital, Oslo Reptile Park, also quoted in the article. It's now no longer a question of whether it will be made legal, but about when it will become legal.

Indeed. And long overdue it is.

*This organization is of course, like their comrades at home and abroad, a group of extremists and borderline terrorists, although to my knowledge they have never been convicted of any criminal activity.**I have left part of this quote out because it is non-essential and I suspect that the information in it is a lie.

I know, they're crazy. Extremists and fundamentalists. Although there are many much worse groups than the one I mention in the post. But the whole subculture is just bad news IMO.

In this country we don't need a license to own 'ordinary' pets, but I actually wish we did. I wish I could get a license to own my animals. :-) But you're so right, it's a paradox that with babies everyone's supposed to be able to do it and no one questions it. But the population can't possibly keep growing the way it is now so sooner or later there must be some restrictions. Or we'll breed ourselves into extinction by overburdening the biosphere beyond repair, that's another option of course. Hm, be sensible or fuck everything up, I wonder which option is likely to be chosen by our species ... ;-)

did not mean the overpopulating thing, but people like these nuts have kids, then brainwash them with their stupid belief's, which leads to more bigoted people in the world.who will decide who gets too have kids in the future, that will be scary

Yeah, I know what you meant. Like the guy who shot George Tiller, he probably has kids. >:-( I just mentioned the overpopulation because IMO that is the only thing that can possibly lead to any kind of restrictions on human breeding. Unfortunately.

That is the most random thing I've ever heard of, not allowing people to own reptiles. I hope that changes.Oh, and for the record, I think that in an ideal world, people would need to take and pass a test before they can have kids. Way too many people who are emotionally unhealthy go ahead and have kids and then fuck up those kids' lives, aside from the overpopulation issue. But obviously that can't really happen in reality.

Paz, that is such a coincidence that you should mention that - just tonight there was a documentary on TV here on that very subject. And it's pretty good news, isn't it? The average sperm quality is falling so drastically that maybe pretty soon this will take care of itself. :-D We can only hope ... :-D

Margo: you're right, it's totally random. There's no scientific basis for it, you should just hear the arguments coming from the authorities in favor of the current law. (I'll be blogging about that one of these days. :-) I hope very much for a change, not because it'll be to my personal advantage, but because I think the current situation is untenable and I want the solid science available to be the foundation for decisions like these. I'm sure you can imagine that with this law, which was implemented more than 30 years ago, it's extremely difficult to find a qualified vet in this country. They're not taught anything about reptiles in veterinary school in this country. Why should they, right, it's illegal?? But as I said, there are at least 100,000 herptiles in Norwegian homes. No one knows how many of them are in need of medical attention that they won't get until this law is changed. :-(

You're right about the test and all that too. Also about the fact that it'll never happen, this side of a revolution. Did you hear about the guy in Arkansas or wherever who named his kids Adolf Hitler and Aryan Nation and ... whatever that third kid was called. What the hell is wrong with people like that? A lot of people should never have anything to do with kids. :-(

There wouldn't be open war, world leaders would just badmouth each other behind the others' backs and then pretend to like each other in the UN. ;-) But men will always be required, we like you guys ... !! :-)

my littlest critter

Sometimes things are so crazy, out there and/or annoying that I just have to share it with someone somehow. Or I feel like I simply must record my thoughts on it for posterity. This is a good place to do that.

Take the contents of this blog seriously at your peril.

I am a member of the reality-based community.

Subscribe To

About Me

I'm 36 years old. I live in Oslo, the capital of Norway. I love chocolate. I keep freshwater turtles. I like to travel and to see new places. I like to play board games and card games. I'm a big fan of Keanu Reeves, ElfQuest, The Phantom of the Opera, and the even more fantastic opera musical Which Witch. The highlight of my year is the Eurovision Song Contest. I love movies. My all-time favorite movie is Gone with the Wind. I LOVE to read. My favorite author is Terry Pratchett. My favorite book is The Count of Monte Christo.

A note on language

I write mostly in English on this blog. Whatever is written in Norwegian is something that either deals with situations, persons & phenomena specific to Norway, or is contigent on the reader understanding the Norwegian language in order to get the point.