What happens if we end up at war with Russia?

China just declared unofficially which cities of Western coast will be nuked first, and why - t o die maximum people. China should be expelled from
UNSC but there is no one to expel it because UNSC and the world is bitterly divided. Everything indicated we are going to an event X with unknown
magnitude of destruction, and the parties struggle whose nations will survive it. Therefore my reasoning above for the importance of population to be
saved. America has no chance to win a war with Russia but it can lose it for certain. Another matter is if America wants to destroy maximum of Russia
anc China while sacrificing its population. But it has never declared as a goal of US policy, the way it is made known as a goa of the Chinese
although unofficial one. Russia has always shown concern of population, although the West does not think so good for her. Therefore a Russian and
American alliance IS POSSIBLE with the goal to save maximum people on the planet. If the event X is indeed inevitable. China may help it happen by
starting it a bit earlier. So is Saudi Arabia and the rest. Why should they want their nations to die, if they don't know their nations are going to
die anyway? Isn't it craziness of biggest magnitude? Let again think of what is the really important. Is it your smart phone, is it your money, or is
it your life and that of your loved ones. Is it the life of whole nations, or their wealth in today's estimates. The saved people is all that matters
at the end. And that end may be quite near.

This is incredible nonsense and runs on like your thoughts are scrambled.

We tell each other plans for our nukes daily, the Pentagon recently declared nuclear options too... big deal, we do this all the time, We've always
been at war with Eastasia dontcha know?

The Chinese don't even actually have a real doctrine of overseas war, nothing there beyond hyperbole and bs... peoples war is the true doctrine,
victory by immigration, land purchase etc... no reality to what your saying.

This is incredible nonsense and runs on like your thoughts are scrambled.

We tell each other plans for our nukes daily, the Pentagon recently declared nuclear options too... big deal, we do this all the time, We've always
been at war with Eastasia dontcha know?

Who are "WE"? I am not American and logically don't know the Pentagon plans of wars in East Asia. Neither do I know the Russian plans. All I do is
logic.

Would you please use correct English grammar because there might be other people who do not understand slang as "dontcha ".

This is not incredible nonsense and my thoughts are farther than my nose can reach. If you understand anything of it.

"The saved people is all that matters at the end. And that end may be quite near" that is my conclusion and I will repeat it. This is all about. The
people who will be saved. Not the Americans who will be saved. The people from this planet.

Completely lost on the 1984 reference in "always at war with East Asia"?

China, with the bulk of it's population that is educated along the coast in a very small region, incredible cities like Shanghai, a barn storming
economy, vital targets like the newly built Three Gorges damn.... is going to launch an attack with some theory that of 3,500 nukes the 3-4 that it
would take to get through, knock out all the power, end the economy, lay flat all those new buildings and basically end China also... is somehow a
good idea?

You really don't understand the game being played at all do you? Population in fear = easy to control, cold war tactics that allow weapons sales all
over the world and fuel the economy while less stable nations get all the killing on their soil?

I'll say it again... 5 Nations sit atop the UN security council, they already together control the world... they are NEVER going to directly fight
each other.

America has been sold to china and russia - they want to kill all of the "useless eaters" and america has a lot - thanks to the destruction of our
economy, most recently by obama and his communist regime.

What about the firing of all of the military top brass? Were they patriots to america, or cheaters on their wives? Gambling addicts? and spies
giving military secrets to foriegn countries?

What about the mercenaries that have been hired by DHS for obozo's personal army in america?

The idiotic FSA (free # army) that elected obozo will be the first sacrificed to the invading illegal drug cartels, and russian/chinese troops that
are all over america right now - the patriots will be second because they can defend themselves a little longer.

I've been wondering for a while now, what the hell is happening to Putin, maybe he's been in power too long, but he's acting weird.
I don't see any sort of shooting war happening on either Russian land or the continental US, what would worry me is any sort of conflict where both
would feel compelled to enter into. Say for instance a strike in Iran by the US and Russia going in at the same time to secure some say sensitive
objectives, I dunno just my thoughts.

Russia sent its biggest ship Peter the great to Mediterranean. Moskva cruiser went back to Sevastopol base, Varyag, Slava class as Moskva, joined
Peter the great. Varyag visited Alexandria, Egypt. This is a massive presence in the region if we are looking for potential nuclear capabilities.

If Putin is not in power in Russia, others will take it. KPRF.ru is the biggest party in opposition. Let alone generals and FSB-KGB. In fact Putin may
be the best partner of USA that possibly could arise in Russia at the moment.
For example, no single vote for Putin came from the Northern fleet. Perhaps they all voted for KPRF or other leftist parties. Imagine what the
consequences would be, if let say a powerful hardline general is elected president.

In the past I had the rare chance to visit onboard another Kirov class cruiser, similar to Peter the Great. It is quite big! And those missiles called
carrier killers they are just enormous. They are not kept open but we all know their characteristics.
If Russia is to start WW3 it may start it with such kind of ships. Notice that all "anti-air" missiles as S300, S400 are nuclear capable and can
strike ground targets as well. We are talking of hundreds of various kinds of missiles, all possibly nuclear. You know if a bomber Tu could carry
12-24 smaller cruise nuclear missiles what to say about such big ships. i doubt all armament is reported in those public sites. Let alone the fact all
reported armament is dating back 20-30 years ago. Perhaps what is really inside all those tubes is a completely different new systems that the public
doesn't know about.

I don't want to frighten anyone, but if WW3 indeed starts, those ships may make the Middle East vast land if needed. Or to strike US carrier groups.
It all depends who will strike first. Of course the US planes are quite powerful and the US cruise missiles could be nuclear armed too. If they strike
first, the chances are at the opposite side.

I visited the first of series "Kirov" battlecruiser en.wikipedia.org...
I am quite proud of it. Pls do not ask me what circumstances made it possible because I won't tell you

At that time the carrier killers missiles as well as others were installed right on the upper deck and they were looking as terrible as those
on Moskva, only more in numbers. Now they are all put inside on lower deck and are not visible on Peter the Great, nevertheless they are the same (or
better) missiles. Nobody knows what the hell is installed inside there. Let pray we don't have to enter into any WW3 to test who is the stronger
one.

2012newstart
I visited the first of series "Kirov" battlecruiser en.wikipedia.org...
I am quite proud of it. Pls do not ask me what circumstances made it possible because I won't tell you

At that time the carrier killers missiles as well as others were installed right on the upper deck and they were looking as terrible as those
on Moskva, only more in numbers. Now they are all put inside on lower deck and are not visible on Peter the Great, nevertheless they are the same (or
better) missiles. Nobody knows what the hell is installed inside there. Let pray we don't have to enter into any WW3 to test who is the stronger
one.

edit on 13-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

That missle is worthless because that ship would never get close enough to a carrier to use. Back when the Russians had a fleet, it would have been a
part of a battle group with Soviet Carrier that would have provided it cover from US Carrier Battle group. With all those ships working together in
theory this ship would survive long enough to get in range and hit a carrier. Now these things are used as PR stunts but in war with the US they are
just sitting ducks. The Russian surface fleet would either head into port and hide or be destroyed. The Russian would have to depend on their Sub
fleet to do try and disrupt US forces heading to Europe.

yes that is the classical theory. There was a good movie called WW3? a German documentary after the fall of Berlin wall that represents how the
events would develop should Gorbachev have been ousted. Exactly what you say, first blockade of Atlantic that the Russians lost. Then ground offensive
in Germany. The film ended inconclusively, with mutual nuclear exchange. It admitted however that at one point Europe is defenseless and has to use
nuclear weapons first.

In real case scenario one of the superpowers will use nukes first in surprise attack. (if it starts as regional war let say in Syria, the surprise
will be the nukes used against the other superpower). In such case a strike group exactly as the one in Mediterranean would have a goal to destroy
with nuclear loaded missiles of whatever kind maximum of the US fleets and bases in range. And the range may be different of what the official data
shows. Because we have the Reagan-Gorbachev treaty of medium range missiles ban. But I doubt it they keep it. It is already admitted the KH missiles
on bombers could travel 3000 km. Accept it as probable that both Iskander and Yakhont travel much farther than 500 km....

In other words, the war will be won at first shot and it depends whether or not with minimal damage for the attacked country. It might be USA in the
position of attacking country and then all is vice versus. I admit that the US bombers and fighters are unparalleled by what is publicly shown by
Russia today. Still there are the scramjet reentry vehicles that Russia only recently admitted it has developed. So everything is one big IF. Still we
have right now hundreds of Russian nukes floating next to Syria and Israel. What to care of one-two Iranian bombs? Well they might be crazy enough to
start first. And Israel sees that clearly. Russia doesn't want at this point to start WW3 nevertheless Putin warned on several occasions such
scenario is possible. Generals warned too. US top general said about Syria what could be the Russian response, that Russia has the capability of all
spectrum to strategic, but that he doesn't want to comment such option now. Ok let me stop here.

wrabbit2000
Here, I think miscalculation is the greatest factor. Putin is pushing because Obama is wimpy and can be pushed. Putin will keep pushing until Obama
says no. Although if Obama pushes back too hard, Putin has a dozen ways he can hurt us BADLY without any military.

I don't think Putin is pushing and it's something the west made up and then some people can pretend it's pushing. I bet Putin only needs one way to
bring the west down to it's knees or force to change rapidly, just by refuting one document from the HQ of psychiatry via youtube or the news and say
it isn't so. They are a very patient people I assume and I hope the west comes to realize this in the near future and make up something new.

I would keep an eye on the Bering straights, once railroad marshaling yards start being built on the Russian side, time to think about somewhere else
to live. Plus docking facilities for anti submarine ships, that's all the Russians would need as regards protecting landing craft, shore based anti
aircraft units should do the job as regards air protection.

I haven't read the whole thread but replying straight to the OP point here...

If we went to real, honest to God war against Russia or visa versa, as opposed to a proxy war? Well... The answer today is very different from what it
would have been 6 years ago. Today?...

I hate to say this...but if we end up in a war with Russia? Learn Russian in a passable way, very very quickly...stay low and stay quiet until things
stabilize (and they will...it'll be a marathon event, NOT a sprint) and settle in for a long, hard fight to get back what we lose in the opening days
and weeks.

Right now we don't even have a President I'm confident would hold himself together, mentally, if faced with a TRUE challenge he can't pin blame back
for, can't use somehow for his benefit and is an actual "Do or DIE moment" for decision making. He may just have a breakdown...and it won't surprise
me. It really won't. We have weakness and pathetic self interest vs. Putin, who represents the best and worst of what Russia can present to the world
for deed and word.

This is the worst time in history to have a weak worm as a President...but that's the hand we've been dealt. Now lets hope to God no one calls our
bluff in a serious and meaningful way over the next 3 years. We may just lose the opening rounds.

Hahaha another world war will not happen. It's not profitable to have a world war just ask those involved in the last two. Nuclear war is off the
table just because no one has the balls. The world super powers are in a stalemate against the people and the banks. So we are stuck here bearing our
teeth at each other and that's where it's profitable.

I've got something of a new perspective since my September post on this thread...

Put and Russia are patient..within limits. It depends on what they want here. If they want the US to simply be sidelined while they re-take their
place as a respected world power, fine... It's not that big a deal by comparison and given what fall our President has already lead us down, here?
It's not that much more to add salt into the wound at this stage.

However....the US is weak and indecisive right now. That won't last. Not by a long shot. People in the world thought the US was kaput and falling for
power in the 1970's too. Vietnam just ended...morale in the military was in the crapper and we had a succession of crooks, seat warmers and
incompetent fools in the White House. It made the US a paper tiger and a laughable one by the time 1980 rolled around.

Then Reagan came and people laughing at our weakness, choked in mid bite and didn't have a good meal again for at least 25 years. Putin knows this
too.....

So, if doing more than sidelining the US is the goal, there are 3 years left to do it in before it's back to a crap shoot and dice roll for how our
nation turns next. More inward and weaker? ...or another strong leader to over-swing the other direction?

Patience in Russia is real...but real limited with that 3 year timeline. Lets hope just sidelining is all they seek.

marbles87
Hahaha another world war will not happen. It's not profitable to have a world war just ask those involved in the last two. Nuclear war is off the
table just because no one has the balls. The world super powers are in a stalemate against the people and the banks. So we are stuck here bearing our
teeth at each other, and that's where it's profitable.

Those same words preceded World War I, World War II and Korea.....and were 100% totally, absolutely wrong, all three times. They were repeated and I
heard them myself in 1989 for Panama and 1991 for Kuwait. Again, 100% totally and absolutely wrong to everyone who said and believed it.

War absolutely can happen...and the surest way for it to proceed is for a majority to believe it's not possible. History shows that to be the most
dangerous position for a population under threat to take.

War is also the single largest profit producing industry known to man in the modern times ...so profit motive as a reason NOT to go to war is badly
misreading everything about international geopolitics right now, IMO.

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