as on of his biggest fan an defender (named ab7) i am now at ease with the fact i was wrong
and he need to go for us to be successfull

at this point i dont even care what we get ill take the cap releif and addition by substration

still early or fact?

i say fact

Sadly I feel the same way, I have seen the light, his impact on the floor is a big negative and we are losing a chunk
Offensive with him on the floor. I think at this point management see's this and a trade is in the works.

Another fan fed up with Bargniani

Bargniani needs to go but I doubt Colangelo has the balls to admit he lost his
gamble to trade him right now.

I think this would have to wait until the 2013 off season.

First Colangelo needs to be let go. I mean if the team does not make the Play Offs then
why in the world would he deserve an extension anyways?
So whoever comes in after Colangelo has to make a priority getting rid of Il Mago.

So going into the free agent season, Jefferson and Millsap are both free agents and I doubt Utah will be able
to sign both guys. I think their prefrence will be to sign Jefferson.

I think if the Raptors amnesty Kleiza (because he is the perfect candidate, his knee is done basically)
they will be about 8 millions under the cap and maybe that will be enough to sign Millsap.

So this is one scenario to consider, trading Bargs and going after Millsap.

Unless a miracle happens and Bargniani starts playing like an all star, the Raps make the Play Off and Colangelo gets an extension. Very Unlikely!

Bargniani needs to go but I doubt Colangelo has the balls to admit he lost his
gamble to trade him right now.

I think this would have to wait until the 2013 off season.

First Colangelo needs to be let go. I mean if the team does not make the Play Offs then
why in the world would he deserve an extension anyways?
So whoever comes in after Colangelo has to make a priority getting rid of Il Mago.

So going into the free agent season, Jefferson and Millsap are both free agents and I doubt Utah will be able
to sign both guys. I think their prefrence will be to sign Jefferson.

I think if the Raptors amnesty Kleiza (because he is the perfect candidate, his knee is done basically)
they will be about 8 millions under the cap and maybe that will be enough to sign Millsap.

So this is one scenario to consider, trading Bargs and going after Millsap.

Unless a miracle happens and Bargniani starts playing like an all star, the Raps make the Play Off and Colangelo gets an extension. Very Unlikely!

The problem in free agency is other teams are fishing as well. Houston has a big hole at PF and just $40M in contracts next year.

Just to clarify, Colangelo still has a team option for a 3rd year on this contract. He is in year 2 of the current 3 year deal.

I also would not be disappointed at BC's firing right now if it meant ridding Bargnani.

Raps with a couple of moves could easily have max money available but it still doesn't mean anything will come of it, unfortunately.

“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

I know it's been said a million times before but it's just so damn frustrating to watch him play. I have no idea why teams don't pick up on the fact that he's a lazy defender. He's very one-dimensional on offense and always has been...if he has a bad shooting night he has a bad game because he can't do anything else consistently! Gosh, I cringe every time someone falls for his pump fake...

I know it's been said a million times before but it's just so damn frustrating to watch him play. I have no idea why teams don't pick up on the fact that he's a lazy defender. He's very one-dimensional on offense and always has been...if he has a bad shooting night he has a bad game because he can't do anything else consistently! Gosh, I cringe every time someone falls for his pump fake...

I know it's been said a million times before but it's just so damn frustrating to watch him play. I have no idea why teams don't pick up on the fact that he's a lazy defender. He's very one-dimensional on offense and always has been...if he has a bad shooting night he has a bad game because he can't do anything else consistently! Gosh, I cringe every time someone falls for his pump fake...

With all this talk about players being held accountable, I am dissapointed more in Dwayne Casey for having such a long leash on Bargnani while keeping someone who is hungrier like Ed Davis on a much shorter leash.

With all this talk about players being held accountable, I am dissapointed more in Dwayne Casey for having such a long leash on Bargnani while keeping someone who is hungrier like Ed Davis on a much shorter leash.

The coach has to be accountable for this.

I'm not sure how hungry ED is as his motor is often inconsistent, in my opinion.

With that said, I definitely think it has to be frustrating for ED as a teammate of Bargnani's. Casey is calling him out ("Make your minutes count vs. counting your minutes") and being told that effort and defense is what is needed from him, yet look at AB. That is the type of 'c-word' I am talking about. There is a glaring double standard in Toronto and it is a great way to poison team moral when one player is held to a different (and lower) set of standards.

I'm not sure how hungry ED is as his motor is often inconsistent, in my opinion.

With that said, I definitely think it has to be frustrating for ED as a teammate of Bargnani's. Casey is calling him out ("Make your minutes count vs. counting your minutes") and being told that effort and defense is what is needed from him, yet look at AB. That is the type of 'c-word' I am talking about. There is a glaring double standard in Toronto and it is a great way to poison team moral when one player is held to a different (and lower) set of standards.

I know Bargs is arguably the most "talented" player on the team but no one really believes he's putting that talent to it's best use. That has to really bug Ed, but he's also gotta get past this on again/off again play. I've heard he and DD are tight and DD is a gym rat but I just don't get the feeling ED is as hard a worker. Maybe he is but inconsistency is often a sign of a poor work ethic but maybe it's a mental thing with him getting discouraged by working hard and watching AB coast through 25 minutes of a 30 minute workload.

I really like Davis, but the problem I see with him starting instead of Bargnani, is that he and Valanciuncas would clog the paint so much that DeRozan/Lowry would have no lanes to penetrate. Plus, the entire opposition defense could sag in from the 3pt line, since there wouldn't be a long-range threat on the court, unless DeRozan becomes the primary ball-handler (as if) and Lowry camps out behind the arc.

Despite his extremely sluggish (being polite) start, Bargnani does a lot for his teammates that isn't captured on the stat sheet. He's still enough of an offensive threat that the opponents gameplan to stop him. When he plays outside it draws out one of the opposition's 2 best interior defenders and, simply by spreading the floor, he creates more lanes for DeRozan/Lowry to penetrate and for Fields to run around looking for backdoor cuts. When he draws double-teams, which he still does despite his inefficient scoring so far, he also opens up teammates for open looks. I also see him and DeRozan developing an on-court chemistry that wasn't there last season, especially with Bargnani's ability to set picks on DeRozan's defender as he's receiving the ball, giving him separation to either spot-up or make his initial move to get to the basket.

I just think Bargnani is a better fit with the starting unit than Davis is, as long as Valanciunas is the starting C and the offense is dependent on DeRozan/Lowry being able to penetrate consistently.

DeRozan seems to have an ok 3pt shot. Its just not amazing, I'm sure fields will come back with a much better shot and lowry is lights out from deep. I'd say its a pretty good lineup, Ed just need to polish up his post up game and mid range jumper