tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post6910692474897423589..comments2016-12-07T13:10:55.991-05:00Comments on edward_ winkleman: Deitch @ MoCAEdward_http://www.blogger.com/profile/00110804435781673357noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-35809211263370336362010-01-18T14:25:10.347-05:002010-01-18T14:25:10.347-05:00It&#39;s Hollywood, LALA LAND.
J.D. is perfect fo...It&#39;s Hollywood, LALA LAND. <br />J.D. is perfect for the job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-78139674338102563432010-01-17T12:30:12.942-05:002010-01-17T12:30:12.942-05:00Re: Koons Train. We really do need trains in L.A.,...Re: Koons Train. We really do need trains in L.A., but we especially need tracks. Much as I think Jeff&#39;s train would be an interesting piece, I&#39;d much rather see $25 mil spent on a Metro line through the Wilshire corridor to Santa Monica.<br /><br />It&#39;s kind ironic that LACMA was going to install Koons&#39; train sculpture, but you can&#39;t <b>get</b> to LACMA by train. You can get to MOCA, maybe, depending on where you&#39;re starting from.David Palmerhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/David-Palmer-Studio/201369952781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-91508473829328325242010-01-17T09:30:36.117-05:002010-01-17T09:30:36.117-05:00Re: Koons Train. No great loss. It would be a huge...Re: Koons Train. No great loss. It would be a huge and hugely expensive work that would give art lovers very little in the way of experience (visual or otherwise). Once you see it, you&#39;ll have seen it. Thousands of small works - any one of which offers art lovers more than this spectacle would - are made by unknown artists every year.Tom Heringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12350251957104818496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-60722216278358724182010-01-16T21:18:18.586-05:002010-01-16T21:18:18.586-05:00Word today was Deitch may be heading out to MoCA t...Word today was Deitch may be heading out to MoCA to pull Jeff Koons <a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/11/jeff-koons-train-nowhere-near-its-final-destination.html?cid=6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a6d9db0b970b" rel="nofollow">Train to nowhere out of the station&quot; which has a rumored price tag of $25 million</a> and is currently stalled to to financial difficulties.no-where-manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00420608393276593672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-39642121462455233352010-01-15T18:11:17.526-05:002010-01-15T18:11:17.526-05:00Did Man even exist at the same time as dinasaurs? ...Did Man even exist at the same time as dinasaurs? <br /><br />I thought they were in different time frames.<br /><br />Like LA and NY - Jeff D n Glenn L<br /><br />They want Jeff coz he talks to money - which is good. Unfortunately he also listens to money. Which is bad.<br /><br />I can forgive almost everything except his web site. <br /><br />That was probably the cincher in LA.CAPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09861096695503969576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-61442258379034221172010-01-15T13:14:29.352-05:002010-01-15T13:14:29.352-05:00Is it an oversimplification to say that in the Dei...Is it an oversimplification to say that in the Deitch way, all art is commercial art, taking to heart the idea that the best art is business, and art&#39;s value lies in social currency, propaganda value or commodity fetish.<br /><br /> This means that a commercial art is considered art and the value is ultimately access to a sub culture (design being culture on a level of literature and wine).<br /><br />COmmercialiszing sub cultures is nothing new - but deitch brings a modified Vans Warped tour to the upper class, who see working class California an exotic community. Which it is, relatively speaking.<br /><br />Vaulting over established estuaries with instant exposure can be catastrophic to an artist - many people are horrified when a young artist with an apparent gimmick is promoted with relatively large amounts of money ((i.e. rent for a large space for a start). <br /><br />On the other hand, if an artist is good, the slow route may seem a bit stodgy - and for Deitch, all of his artists are good. Right? Because he can&#39;t tell the difference.<br /><br />And that is why I like Deitch. He isn&#39;t the only one who can&#39;t tell - there are people in other schools who can&#39;t detect &quot;the good&quot; - we call this taste, and everyone has their blind spots.<br />because in the end, taste is defined negatively by what you don&#39;t like, as often as what you do. <br /><br />But the whole idea of THE art world is blinkered - Deitch isn&#39;t part of your art world unles you chose to include him by participating in his project. He can&#39;t harm you except by exposure (a double edged sword) or by &quot;stealing&quot; your audience by advancing his project - any more than a movie about dinosaurs can harm an author of cave man diet books. Cave men never ate dinosaurs. It&#39;s a fact.<br /><br />In many art dealer&#39;s minds though, they are promoting THE art world, creating an audience. This is weird because the audience is already here.<br /><br />Does art need a brand name? <br /><br /><br />Does the art world need a center?zipthwunghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-74890965192856466592010-01-15T07:59:05.253-05:002010-01-15T07:59:05.253-05:00You will own what you write when you sign your rea...You will own what you write when you sign your real name to it. And while I am generally ignoring you, and wish you&#39;d return the favor, I am not refusing to debate you. Rather, your streams of self-indulgent non-sequiturs don&#39;t qualify as the stuff of debate in the first place. Do go on - you amuse Ed for some reason. Just leave my work out of it.Franklinhttp://artblog.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-7054960341790204332010-01-14T23:23:42.521-05:002010-01-14T23:23:42.521-05:00Franklin, I will continue to call you on your erro...Franklin, I will continue to call you on your errors, but I&#39;m glad you are ignoring me and refusing to debate me.<br /><br />Keep up the effort.<br /><br />I own what I write, that what the government says anyways.zipthwunghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-72139339754991994532010-01-14T22:07:21.574-05:002010-01-14T22:07:21.574-05:00Zipthwung, again, I&#39;m content to ignore your p...Zipthwung, again, I&#39;m content to ignore your prattling. But if you persist in making moronic comments about my art and writing in public forums, I&#39;m at the very least going to remind you that your doing so isn&#39;t backed up by any equivalent effort, commitment, or ownership.Franklinhttp://artblog.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-76676266485658641142010-01-14T13:30:47.009-05:002010-01-14T13:30:47.009-05:00Woah there, there is another side to this. I know ...Woah there, there is another side to this. I know Franklin was making a joke about Deitch cannonizing Kristin, I got that, did you? <br /><br />Because then you are making a joke of Kristin Baker. Not that I&#39;m that worried about her - but Franklin is making a critical judgement about an artist - without addressing the work directly - which is the possible start of the continuation of the whisper campaign against Deitch.<br /><br />Because aside from my pathological focus on Franklin, and whether he makes work or not, I was agreeing with Franklin, can you believe it?<br /><br />So you might want to &quot;catch that&quot; as well, Ed, instead of siding with what frankly has an undercurrent of righteousness. <br /><br />If my words are so much static, what does it matter?<br /><br />As to continually harping on the idea that I make no work, what does it matter? Does Jerry Saltz show his work? Does he still make work? No on knows.<br /><br />I was trying to be funny back by bringing up the in the context of Franklin&#39;s comment, which seemed to cherry bomb Kristin Baker into the conversation - Deitch has lot&#39;s of artists and I doubt he&#39;s going to rearange the cannon to put Kristin above Brad Kalhammer.zipthwunghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-56421976761490266542010-01-14T07:51:24.806-05:002010-01-14T07:51:24.806-05:00sorry...didn&#39;t catch that...I TOO prefer that ...sorry...didn&#39;t catch that...I <b>TOO</b> prefer that commenters leave each others&#39; work out of such discussions...it discourages engagement on the topic at hand.<br /><br />Thanks for your cooperation.Edward_http://www.blogger.com/profile/00110804435781673357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-47746170284940585942010-01-14T07:47:41.135-05:002010-01-14T07:47:41.135-05:00I&#39;m no more inclined to respond to Zipthwung t...I&#39;m no more inclined to respond to Zipthwung than television static, but I would prefer that my work be left out of this discussion, particularly by those who make none. I don&#39;t actively dislike Baker&#39;s paintings, although the only thing that seems to set her apart from other similar, average painters is her educational pedigree and the scrumptious headshot on Deitch&#39;s website. My point was mainly that contemporary art history is fabricated and arbitrary, and the Deitch appointment is going to make it even easier to fabricate.Franklinhttp://artblog.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-16740203819465986042010-01-14T07:43:47.828-05:002010-01-14T07:43:47.828-05:00&quot;Pink Floyd are short.&quot;&quot;Pink Floyd are short.&quot;Brixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-9221749273326045182010-01-13T23:26:54.147-05:002010-01-13T23:26:54.147-05:00Many people in LA are short? Hey, Randy Newman, h...Many people in LA are short? Hey, Randy Newman, have you done a study? If it is true statistically, which I doubt, maybe it&#39;s because there is a very high Hispanic (mostly Mexican) demographic and Mexicans are generally shorter than Euros.<br /><br />But really, WTF does this have to do with anything?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-48653006299318663002010-01-13T21:51:37.899-05:002010-01-13T21:51:37.899-05:00That&#39;s just loony.
Indeed. But the statement ...<i>That&#39;s just loony.</i><br /><br />Indeed. But the statement that Koons is &quot;one of the most important artists of the last quarter century&quot; doesn&#39;t sound less crazy outside the contemporary art echo chamber. I picked Baker pretty much at random off the Deitch site. All you need to make that statement functionally true, for anyone, is to get enough of the right people repeating it.Franklinhttp://artblog.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-10886477318415425822010-01-13T20:48:15.134-05:002010-01-13T20:48:15.134-05:00J. Wesley Brown - Deitch has many fine individuals...J. Wesley Brown - Deitch has many fine individuals working for him - and if he is able to make political hires (i mean nepotism, which i applaud) then he will have a certain flavor - that this flavor dovetails nicely with some aspects of the more publicized LA artworld is good and bad.<br /><br />I&#39;m not sure why Franklin singled out Kristin Baker - who cares really, she isn&#39;t really a great painter (or painter&#39;s painter) but she&#39;s still young and her work is ambitious. I&#39;m not sure why Deitch exhibited her specifically. It could have something to do with her being smart and good looking - that&#39;s as rare as a rock star-poet.<br /><br />But her work is pop where Franklin is wabi sabi old school academic - i wouldn&#39;t expect either to like each other&#39;s work.<br /><br />There are other painters we could point to - Rosson Crow who also relies on splashy effects, like power chords really. She is collected by media execs and will probably get better (more engaged with color and emotional tone) if she continues to engage critically with the medium. <br /><br />But back to Deitch - he wont risk his reputation crowning someone without a real track record - so look more towards the usual suspects form his rogues gallery - they are all over 5&#39; 8&quot; tall, which is intersting in the sense that many people in LA are short.<br /><br />On the other hand, I do wonderzipthwunghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-18641717102263255712010-01-13T18:14:18.097-05:002010-01-13T18:14:18.097-05:00Kristen baker is the best painter of her generatio...Kristen baker is the best painter of her generation?That&#39;s just loony .Valerienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-61341031102109447062010-01-13T14:57:54.294-05:002010-01-13T14:57:54.294-05:00Oh Tom, I should have quoted the whole sentence Co...Oh Tom, I should have quoted the whole sentence <i>Could there be problems with the art world and industry that keep some artists (with better-than-above-average talent) from rising higher?</i><br /><br />Well, a lot of people (in all fields) are jerks and since &quot;ordinary talent&quot; isn&#39;t in short supply, someone else gets chosen. If one has extraordinary talent, being a jerk might be overlooked as long as one delivers.<br /><br />On the corporate side there are also jerks who will blow one off just because they don&#39;t like your hairdo, but this is just a single case. If it&#39;s happening repeatedly then some self examination, a jerktology, is necessary.Georgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13759499295301691764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-26207495316183122422010-01-13T09:32:30.944-05:002010-01-13T09:32:30.944-05:00I hate to interrupt your amusement, George, but I ...I hate to interrupt your amusement, George, but I didn&#39;t say that talent is all there is to success. I said the opposite.Tom Heringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12350251957104818496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-15296069820157377402010-01-12T22:13:12.376-05:002010-01-12T22:13:12.376-05:00...that keep some artists (with better-than-above-...<i>...that keep some artists (with better-than-above-average talent) from rising higher?</i><br /><br />LOL, talent is only one part of the success equation. I thought they taught that in art school.Georgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13759499295301691764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-61989383408572614392010-01-12T20:44:39.850-05:002010-01-12T20:44:39.850-05:00I don&#39;t know if you guys remember about your y...I don&#39;t know if you guys remember about your young and impressionable days of being 20-something, but I am holding a protest this Sunday at National Portfolio Day. Please come!<br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=244466851932&amp;ref=mfGladys Grimaldihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06976846473686676071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-4470811445195079902010-01-12T19:01:21.979-05:002010-01-12T19:01:21.979-05:00I look forward to seeing what Jeffrey Deitch does ...I look forward to seeing what Jeffrey Deitch does at MOCA. It&#39;s very exciting that he&#39;s coming to L.A. We welcome refugees from New York.<br /><br />Many of us here, having seen his photo in the local paper, have also been admiring his glasses. Hopefully they&#39;ll be selling replicas in the MOCA store.Davidhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/David-Palmer-Studio/201369952781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-88775006939540136012010-01-12T16:38:46.533-05:002010-01-12T16:38:46.533-05:00Brent, are you saying there are many artists with ...Brent, are you saying there are many artists with no talent (at worst), or no-better-than-above-average talent (at best), who fool themselves into believing they deserve to be art stars? Like the hordes who show up for <i>American Idol</i> auditions?<br /><br />If so, would that be the only reason for bitterness and disappointment out there? Could there be problems with the art world and industry that keep some artists (with better-than-above-average talent) from rising higher?<br /><br />I&#39;d be careful about buying into the American myth that all failure is the individual&#39;s fault.Tom Heringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12350251957104818496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-75669229449709248732010-01-12T16:28:47.823-05:002010-01-12T16:28:47.823-05:00@Zipthwung -
&quot;How about addressing my point...@Zipthwung - <br /><br />&quot;How about addressing my points?<br /><br />One of them being that the traditional career path of a museum person is through academia - though I suppose an MBA is fine for collecting art for Citibank or raising funds for MOCA.&quot;<br /><br />I&#39;m an artist but I have an MBA and my day job is as a financial analyst for one of the other major LA museums. While I do think there may be some dangerous conflict of interest issues here, the primary job of the director is to yes, raise money and yes, run a complex organization, and to yes, oversee the curators&#39; choices also. He has an art background qualifying him for that last important one but he also has executive experience, which will allow him to excel at the first two.<br /><br />The &quot;traditional career path&quot; is quite varied here. We have a CFO, accountants, IT people, operations people, educators, marketing people, carpenters, painters, electricians etc., ALL of us working daily to run the museum smoothly and accomplish it&#39;s mission. <br /><br />The first rule of being a good executive is to surround yourself with a great team that complements you and enhances where you have weaknesses. <br /><br />Can he tell us &quot;who the first artist to deal with transhumanism is?&quot; Maybe and maybe not, but I bet you his curators sure can and will.<br /><br />PS&gt; No matter how successful his gift shop is (ours is a money-losing operation) its profits would be a pittance compared to the rest of it&#39;s revenue stream.J. Wesley Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13978967238356104467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12363995.post-61806534820351067222010-01-12T16:25:41.427-05:002010-01-12T16:25:41.427-05:00For Brent:
&quot;A far greater source of disappoin...For Brent:<br />&quot;A far greater source of disappointment and bitterness in life is unrealistic expectations, not people being scoundrels.&quot;<br /><br />Quite the generalization in a chicken or the egg form! Are people disappointed and bitter because of the systems that scoundrels (in power) have put in place, or do scoundrels ruin the livelihoods of people because people naturally have unrealistic expectations and need scapegoats?<br /><br />If you&#39;re actually making the argument that Deitch has been an &#39;honest&#39; and has been &#39;doing right&#39; in business because he couldn&#39;t have stayed in business long enough to rip enough people off, I think you&#39;re stretching the idea of &#39;honesty&#39; a bit too far. Some of his shows include collaborations with Dash Snow, Fischerspooner, James Franco?? <br /><br />&quot;This type of insanity will continue as long as people continue to shoehorn each other into silos &quot;artist&quot; &quot;curator&quot; &quot;collector&quot; &quot;gallerist&quot; and so on.<br /><br />No, this type of insanity will continue as long as flamboyant gay gallerists with &quot;outrageous&quot; antics get put in a position of public power. <br /><br />&quot;Also, I think expectations and standards of personal &quot;purity&quot; (whatever than means) has eliminated a lot of talented people who would discharge their offices and jobs in an honest and forthright manner. &quot; <br /><br />There isn&#39;t a relativist way of looking at personal &quot;purity&quot;. Purity in art is keeping independent, for-profit art dealers out of the general public art collective. It&#39;s not selling your soul in order to gain access to wealthier patrons (hello MOCA!) Museums have a responsibility to not be driven by hype and trends in the fly-by-night Damien Hirst-Koons-Dash Snow vein. I mean, I like Keith Haring as much as the next guy but I hardly think he was one of the &quot;most important artists of our time&quot; as false prophets such as Deitch like to claim. <br /><br />And the differences between &quot;artist&quot;, &quot;curator&quot;, &quot;collector&quot;, and &quot;gallerist&quot; are vast. If you are none of these things, you might not be able to tell the difference. But being an artist is nowhere even near being a collector or gallerist or even curator. And working for a museum naturally disqualifies you for being a collector and gallerist. It&#39;s as complex as government, and now there are just as few lines between big business and legislation/history making.Gladys Grimaldihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06976846473686676071noreply@blogger.com