Bad analogy. The homeless can see the reason I buy/give them food instead of dollars, they're not idiots. Also, as an assertive, sincere individual with communicative abilities, I tell them clearly why I am expressing my charity as I am.

An analogy has to explain the situation by including all or as many of the important variables as possible. Your analogy is bad, in my opinion, because it omits all the important variables.

Not to mention, the fact that I am the intentional author of all the homeless person's misery.

Discussing this forum with my wife recently (she thinks I'm wasting my time, but anyway...), she had this analagy:

Often when we encounter a homeless person who asks for money, our inclination is to instead buy them a meal. Not what they asked for, but what we decided was best for them.

It's possible to apply that to God with any sort of prayer request - He will do what He knows to be in our best interests, even if we don't agree or see the reason.

Just a thought. Have a good weekend.

Perhaps you should try reading the Bible. John 15:7 "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." Nowhere is there any fine print that says "If God agrees with your request" or "God will get to it when he can". No, Jesus says that if you are believer, anything a believer asks for will be done. You should be moving a mountain a day. You should be able to ask for an Olympic sized swimming pool filled with hundred dollar bills, and then BANG! it happens. No string attached, no prerequisites (except that you have to have faith, which you assure us you do). This is what Jesus promised. Yet, this is NOT what happened. Either the Bible seriously misquotes and misconstrues the words of Jesus, or Jesus is a liar. OR.... perhaps the whole thing is a lie. I'm going with option 3.

I actually had to stop myself from spitting venom at the OP - all I can think is, "apparently your God thinks this is in these kids' best interest."

Of course, I want to say it with a lot of yelling and snarling and, frankly, being an ass - so I shan't, and get back to work. My company's got me on a project addressing the food desert here in my hometown - that's more productive than blaming people who have problems for not understanding "God's plan", wouldn't you say?

... harrumph.

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"But to us, there is but one god, plus or minus one." - 1 Corinthians 8:6+/-2

Discussing this forum with my wife recently (she thinks I'm wasting my time, but anyway...), she had this analagy:

Often when we encounter a homeless person who asks for money, our inclination is to instead buy them a meal. Not what they asked for, but what we decided was best for them.

Heard this excuse before, that your god “knows” best. it’s part of the usual “no, wait, something else” garbage that Christians use. However, your bible says that your god will answer any request positively and quickly. There is no “you need to have an amputation”. I wonder, does god enjoy stump ulcers? He must. They must be “best” for someone. And those people who dared to be born before anesthesia and c-limbs, wow, it must have been in their “best” interest to have gangrene and agony.

What a disgusting and pitiful god that Christians have to create.

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

Often when we encounter a homeless person who asks for money, our inclination is to instead buy them a meal. Not what they asked for, but what we decided was best for them.

It's possible to apply that to God with any sort of prayer request - He will do what He knows to be in our best interests, even if we don't agree or see the reason.

Just a thought. Have a good weekend.

Of course I should be replying to your wife, rather than you - please pass the message on.

The fault that she has in her analogy is that she thinks that God thinks like she does. This is quite amazing - she thinks that God acts just like any female, western, Christian in a prosperous country. (Of course, this is laughable!)

Tell us, does your wife think she behaves like God, or does she think that God behaves like her?

Has she not read the Bible? Can your wife not recall that Jesus said, "The poor will always be with us." How much clearer can the Son of God be? He does nothing for the poor on earth, He does it in heaven.

So, I am afraid your wife is just another silly woman with vacuous ideas; ideas she thinks God ought to be doing, so He can be more like her. Women, according to Jesus, should really not be preaching, even though you, as her husband, have given her permission.

It is therefore with some sorrow that I must say that you are an irresponsible husband, 1Cor. 14:35: And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in a church. Well, of course, this is not the church, but surely you teach her The Bible and God's Word?

I do hope this True Christian Message reaches your heart and soul, and that of your wife too (although the bible is a little vague on women having souls.)

I will pray for your marriage to recover and that you might both walk in the Light of Christ... Amen.

It's possible to apply that to God with any sort of prayer request - He will do what He knows to be in our best interests, even if we don't agree or see the reason.

Just a thought. Have a good weekend.

Does it occur to you that you could make the same blank assertion in both a universe where your god exists and a universe where your god doesn't exist, and no one could tell the difference?

What is the purpose of insisting upon a qualification for 'knowing' something that you can't demonstrate unequivocally, that makes it impossible to tell the difference of its existence from its non-existence?

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

The sarcastic point that Atheola and Graybeard made is that your god already makes it abundantly clear how and what he thinks of 'women', that is to say as 'less than'. The misogyny of the bible is obviously the vain nature of its entirely finite human male creators, but this also applies to bible god. Their portrayal is accurate.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 05:44:42 PM by Omen »

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

... this may seem crude, but allow me to respond to your wife's argument with this:

Do you really still think it's a valid concept?

tell me, Grimm, in honest and full detail: What food did you consume today? Start with breakfast, include all snacks, then lunch, dinner, supper etc. Please also advise what food scraps were thrown away in your household today.

Then enlighten us all with the positive, actual, tangible methods you have employed to assist those in the world who are hungry.

tell me, Grimm, in honest and full detail: What food did you consume today? Start with breakfast, include all snacks, then lunch, dinner, supper etc. Please also advise what food scraps were thrown away in your household today.

Then enlighten us all with the positive, actual, tangible methods you have employed to assist those in the world who are hungry.

You self-righteous twat.

What Grimm does or doesn't do is irrelevant to his point, which is that your wife's idea is wrong. I'll assume that this reply indicates that you know that.

tell me, Grimm, in honest and full detail: What food did you consume today? Start with breakfast, include all snacks, then lunch, dinner, supper etc. Please also advise what food scraps were thrown away in your household today.

Then enlighten us all with the positive, actual, tangible methods you have employed to assist those in the world who are hungry.

You self-righteous twat.

You missed the point mm. If Grimm were omniscient, omnipotent and loved all of those children, there is no doubt in my mind that he would snap his fingers and feed every single one of them. Any human with half a conscience would do the same. God is supposedly all of those things, but lets 20,000 of them die every day from starvation.

On the other hand, if God didn't exist, then those children would still go hungry. As far as I am concerned, it is the most compelling argument against the Christian God in existence.

Often when we encounter a homeless person who asks for money, our inclination is to instead buy them a meal. Not what they asked for, but what we decided was best for them.

It's possible to apply that to God with any sort of prayer request - He will do what He knows to be in our best interests, even if we don't agree or see the reason

The point of that picture is:

Many people have prayed for that to NOT happen.And to pose the question: Is this is THEIR best interest?

The bible promises to answer the prayers of those who truly believe - he specifies nothing on "only if it's within my divine plan" or anything like that, yet it only seems to work on things that could easily be coincidences and never anything of a significant scale such as world hunger and numerous types of suffering. One Christian on this forum claimed a prayer worked for him when he prayed for a job and got 3/4 job offers that day...the same thing happened to an atheist friend who didn't pray. And I wonder how many times the Christian prayed for a job and it didn't happen for the 2 events correlating to be merely a fortunate coincidence. Christians tell me God answers their prayers and if this was true then I ask them to pray for something truly worthwhile, yet these worthwhile things never happen.

As for the comments about your wife.

Sadly[1], they're not making insulting or crude comments to disrespect your wife, they're referencing the bible. I personally don't have the quotes to refer you to as I did not remember them off by heart. The bible has a severe disrespect for women. Two of the references in my signature show examples of this...though not the same things people are referring to in this thread.

Two of the references in my signature show examples of this...though not the same things people are referring to in this thread.

Yeah, well, the references in your signature are crap and an example of fools finding verses in isolation, giving no regard to context and quite blatantly getting in wrong.

You claim Deuteronomy 22:24 condones the stoning of a rape victim, wrong. Read verse 25 and 26 as well.

Of course, you'll probably claim that any sort of capital punishment for adultery or sexual mis-conduct is evil, but then again, you can't claim any absolute morality even exists, so on what standard you'd judge this evil is up for question.

With all due respect mm is that not the most schizophrenic statement ever or am I wrong in supposing that jesus is not god?

It's about as schizophrenic as suggesting that an egg is one thing with three parts.

Cluck cluck cluck.

yeah mate and by that analogy I guess the white has to acknowledge that it is subject to the ultimate shell game, while the third part sits back laughing saying "the yolk's on you..."Can't you imagine the fully informed arguements they must have about which came first, the chicken or the egg?

And which aspect do you see represents jesus? and which the holy spirit?

...of course the fact that the egg's three parts are not independent of each other, nor even alive, doesn't bode well for the trinity.

Or (I ask again from honest inquiry) are you of the persuasion that doesn't hold jesus to be god?

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"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester." Bill Bailey