Hey all, it's definitely been awhile since I posted, but I need some serious advice concerning my male cat Angus. I've posted about his urinary issues before, but these past 2 weeks or so have been a living hell for us.

He always urinates on piles of clothes, but it's pretty random and infrequent, we find the pee and clean it up , no problem. Maybe a few months go by then he does it again. One offs, here and there. Once in a while he goes on a bender and pees several times in a few weeks. Every time his urinalysis and other tests come back normal.

About 2 weeks ago he started peeing on stuff but it was every few days, we let it go for a week or so. Then it was daily, and he moved on to more expensive things to clean/get rid of. He pissed on the guest room bed (since we rarely go in ther it took a while to realize that he had done it, and several times at that) and then our bed while we were at work, he has never peed on anything but dirty laundry.

Off to the vet we go on Monday, they keep him overnight to get a good urine sample, do other tests... Everything comes back completely normal, no reason to think he has an infection/crystals. Vet suggests idiopathic FLUTD/behavioural issues.

Today I found a large urine spot on my new sofa. I pull off the cushions to realize that he's peed there several times. Everything smells like urine, no matter how much I clean. I am seriously losing my mind and thoughts of getting rid of him are pushing forward in my head.

Here's what we've been doing:
-wet food
-feliway diffuser on every floor, and by the litter box. we spray his collar down with the feliway spray on a weekly basis.
-lots of toys and activities, catnip, windows to look out of.
-has very private litterbox room. We have 2 boxes (we have 2 cats), we'd add a 3rd, but only one box really gets used, they seems to like using the same box.
-gets lots of attention, he's a very affectionate lap cat.
-I've been trying to eliminate urine smells all over the place with Nature's Miracle, Vinegar, baking soda, borax, everything I can think of to prevent him from going back to the same spots, especially furniture.

My only idea about his behaviour is that he is very focused/obsessed with going outside, he waits at the door when we leave and come home and tries very hard to escape. We often allow him to lounge on the front porch supervised for a few minutes, but inevitable he tries to bolt, so we bring him in. We sometimes put him on a harness and tether as well. He meows incessantly at the door when we're home or if we're outside doing something. Often it seems that when we haven't let him go outside when we've been in and out during the day, that's when he pees. ie: I was out washing the car for a few hours, while he meows at the door for me, I came in and discovered the pee on the sofa

Should we allow him to be an outside cat? Will this solve our problem? I'm just so nervous to do it, there are too many dangers. But if this will end the peeing...

I'm sorry this is so long, I am literally writing this through tears of frustration and my hands are just flying across the keyboard.

mollywog

August 15th, 2009, 12:46 PM

aww Stacer I can't imagine what you are going through. I too would be starting to think of other options if my cat was peeing on everything. Cat pee is NOT a pleasant smell! :yuck:

I don't know much about cats but a few questions popped into my mind
- what is Angus' background? Was he a stray cat before you got him? How old was he when you got him?
- what is his relationship with the other cat in the house??

Sending good :goodvibes: and hope that you can find a solution soon!

sugarcatmom

August 15th, 2009, 01:03 PM

Oh gosh, that is incredibly frustrating. I would also be leaning towards idiopathic cystitis, which is often influenced by stress. And yes, it's very likely related to Angus wanting to go outside, and/or to his relationships with other critters in the house. It can be hard to find a treatment plan that works in these situations but here is a link to a very thorough article on the subject: NON-OBSTRUCTIVE IDIOPATHIC/INTERSTITIAL CYSTITIS IN CATS: THINKING OUTSIDE THE (LITTER) BOX (http://www.michvma.org/documents/MVC%20Proceedings%202008/Chew%201%20FIC%20NorthCarolina11-2007BSAVABased.pdf)

Here are some quotes:

The neuroendocrine abnormalities in cats with recurrent idiopathic cystitis suggest a sensitized response to stress indicating that these cats may have greater needs for enriched surroundings than do healthy cats.

Intercat conflict commonly is present when multiple cats are housed indoors together and health problems are present. Conflict among cats can develop because of threats to the cat’s perception of their overall status in the home, from other animals in the home, or from outside cats. The goal is to reduce conflict to a more manageable level for the cats involved. Treatment for conflict between indoor cats involves providing a separate set of resources for each cat, preferably in locations where the cats can use them without being seen by other cats.

Is there anyway you can provide a safe outdoor enclosure for Angus to spend some time in? http://habitathaven.com/cat-enclosures.html

ancientgirl

August 15th, 2009, 02:46 PM

I was going to suggest the same thing, about an outdoor enclosure.

Chaser

August 15th, 2009, 02:49 PM

You could also PM Toonces re: outdoor cat enclosures. She has a great one that her kitties really love. And I'm sure 14+ will have some insight on that subject too! :thumbs up

(Nice to see you back!)

sugarcatmom

August 15th, 2009, 03:06 PM

Couple other things I just thought of: you might want to consider adding Cosequin to Angus' wet food. It can help strengthen the lining of the bladder: http://nutramaxanimalhealth.com/Products/Cosequin-for-cats.aspx

Some veterinarians also recommend Cosequin to help support urinary bladder health. The inner lining of the bladder wall is protected by a layer, which contains some of the same compounds as are found in cartilage. This layer prevents urine and the waste products contained within it from seeping into and damaging the lining. Since the low molecular weight chondroitin sulfate found in Cosequin is available to more than just cartilage cells, the bladder may use it to help support this protective layer.

Also marshmallow root powder and/or cornsilk (from a health food store) can help sooth any bladder or urinary tract inflammation.

And lastly, pain meds may be something to think about, although these are very tricky to use in cats. Cystitis is quite painful and a vicious circle of cystitis causing stress which exacerbates the cystitis can be difficult to break. Here's another quote: http://www.catinfo.org/#Common_Feline_Health_Problems_and_Their_Ties_to_D iet_

Diet is not the only issue involved with cystitis but it is an important one and one that we can control. Stress is also thought to play a very significant role in cystitis and even cats that are fed a 100 percent canned food diet may experience bouts of cystitis. This is a very frustrating disease to deal with and one that the veterinary community does not have all the answers for. What we do know is that decreasing stress and increasing the water content of the diet are the most important management issues to address. The water content of the diet is easy to control. The stress issue is another matter and is not always easy to address since cats can be very sensitive and are often 'silent' in their stress.

Cystitis can be extremely painful and it is very important to address pain management in these cats. Remember: pain = stress and we are trying to minimize the stress in these patients. Buprinex is a good choice for a pain medication. This is superior to Torbugesic which has been used for pain management in the cat in the past. (Burprinex is a prescription medication that you must get from your veterinarian.) Unfortunately, many veterinarians overlook pain medications as a very important part of the treatment of this common feline problem.

Dr Lee

August 15th, 2009, 03:07 PM

I am sorry about the problems! Sounds so incredibly frustrating.

A couple of thoughts on FLUTD.

Approximately 70% of cats with FLUTD will positively respond to canned food versus dry food. The increased water intake can help reduce the concentration of the urine which can reduce the inflammation of the bladder. Addition of water to the wet food and use of a cat fountain can also be beneficial.

Also DHA (an omega 3 fatty acid found in fish oils) is thought to help reduce inflammation of the bladder wall. For this reason it is added into some prescription urinary cat foods.

Cosequin is occasionally used with anecdotal success. This comes from human medicine, where some women with non-bacterial bladder wall inflammation have shown to their bladder walls deficient in a glucosamine like connective tissue and respond to a supplement close to cosequin. For this reason, some cats are placed on cosequin. Cat specific testing has not been done to my knowledge.

If FLUTD is the cause, then some precription medications can help. Some that are used include amitryptilline, prozac and prednisolone.

I hope this helps. :pawprint:

Dr Lee

August 15th, 2009, 03:09 PM

You post fast sugarcatmom!!!

Buprenorphine is a good idea.

Stacer

August 15th, 2009, 03:09 PM

We adopted Angus and Finn at around 8 weeks old (they're 4 now), so we've had them for almost their entire lives. Angus and Finn have a good relationship, they often sleep together and groom each other.

We do have a dog, Skylar, who is a relatively new addition (we've had her for1.5 yrs). For the most part the dog and cats ignore each other, but if the cats start to play and chase, Skylar tries to join in, which sends the cats running for the highest point in the room. This could be part of the problem, and we do try to prevent Skylar's chase instinct.

SCM, I quickly read through the article you provided and I see some things that I can implement; change the type of litter, perhaps be more vigilant with litter cleanliness (we're pretty good, but I guess we can always be better). Find some better games and toys for Angus. I also think I may put the baby gate up again so that the cats can have a dedicated area of the house away from the dog.

Unfortunately due to the type of townhouse we have (no backyard) we can't build an enclosure for him. I went out and bought a new harness today and may have to spend more time outside with him.

The vet suggested some meds (antidepressants, I think). But according to that article, the effectiveness is hit or miss and can cause worsening in some cases.

This may be a horrible thing, but it was also suggested to me at the vet's office by one of the techs. Put Angus in a bathroom with food water and litter for a week so he's forced to use the litterbox. As of a few hours ago, I've done this. Perhaps doing this just when we're not home would be better? I'm still very angry right now and can't really stand the sight of him, and he's probably safer in there right now:D as I'm cleaning the mess.

Stacer

August 15th, 2009, 03:10 PM

Wow alot of people have posted since I started responding to the first 2 posts

Stacer

August 15th, 2009, 03:13 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'll try the cosequin and ask my vet about some of the pain meds. I'm willing to try anything.

14+kitties

August 15th, 2009, 03:26 PM

So how does he get along with Finn? Did he do this before Skylar came along or is it since the addition of a larger, more dominant animal?
Is there a room that could be just his? As in, no other animals come in? Maybe you have a small room or a large closet that could be set up for his use only. When you are home and can keep an eye on him then he is out with you but when you are gone or outside working then he can go into his room. I'm just throwing out ideas here.
If you are interested in an outside enclosure I can send you a link for a picture of the one hubby made for KMK. H doesn't want to come out of his. I open the door so he can go explore with the rest of the kitties and he runs to the back of the enclosure. It is 6d x 8w x 6h with a section at one end closed off for his food, litter and bed. Not saying that Angus will want to be outside 24/7 but just in case. You could add shelving, hang ropes, a hammock, lots of things for him to play with and do. Maybe something like that so he can be outside would be enough to make him happy. You would still bring him in at night or let him stay out if he is happier. At least you would know he is safe. If you have no shade trees you could use a large tarp for the top.

growler~GateKeeper

August 16th, 2009, 03:43 AM

Stacer would you be willing to go to a Homeopath Vet? A Homeopath vet will look at the whole cat to get an understanding of not just the physical but also Angus' emotional state. They would look at the results from previous tests but won't just focus on the urinary system and may ask questions about what type of personality Angus has ie is he shy or bold, does he like warm or cold weather, is he bothered by loud noises etc - these all relate to his coping abilities. Often there is an event, minor or major, that happened at some point in their lives that we may not realize still affects them and results in different medical issues. A single or a combination of remedies would then be prescribed based on all symptoms and issues to rebalance the harmony of the system.

Love4himies

August 16th, 2009, 08:12 AM

I find with Jasper if there is an intact male cat outside and if he doesn't get outside to spray he will spray all over the furniture to protect his territory. If I take him outside at least once a day so he can spray his territory and he won't in the house. Snowball was the same way, he needed to go outside to mark his territory.

Khari

August 16th, 2009, 10:52 AM

So sorry you are going through this....My thoughts are this is stress related cystis (another animal, territorial, etc.) or something in his environment that is causing him to pee outside the box. I am going to throw a bunch of things ot there for you to consider :thumbs up I think the other posters gave some great advice as well that I strongly suggest you give a try as well.

You had mentioned that he is peeing on piles of clothes, etc. Is the house cluttered with many things lying around. Many cats DO NOT like clutter or anything lying around. Could you keep things off of the floor. Buy tall hampers with lids. Keep things in your closet with the door closed. My sisters cat did not like lots of things lying around (especially laundry) so he would spray on them. She finally stopped leaving much lying around and leaving everything in the closet with the door closed and this has helped tremendously :D

Yo had mentioned that you have perches for kitty to look outside. Do you have kitty condos for him to play on? Could you install shelves on the wall for him to climb on?

Since your kitty is peeing on soft surfaces I am thinking that maybe the litter is hurting his behind when he pees. He may not like the feel of the litter. He may want to pee on softer surfaces. Could you put a litterbox down with something soft in it like puppy training pads, a towel, newspaper, etc. to see if he will use this? Are the litterboxes big enough for your kitty to move around in comfortably? Is it covered? Some cats do not like covered litterboxes. You said that the cats only use one litterbox. Are both the litterboxes the same type? If you have to buy another litterbox you could buy a Rubbermaid container. They are much cheaper and you can get really big ones.

My sister had much success with a flower essence formula called "Spraying cat" from Anaflora http://anaflora.com/essences/index.html

I have heard that there are a few Australian Bush Flower Essences http://www.ausangels.com/contact_us.asp also http://www.copper-tree.ca/essences/ which work very well on cats, who refuse to use their litter box: Billy Goat Plum, Rough Bluebell, Southern Cross, Sundew. Also, if you are buying the Feliway diffusers (my sister also has these plugged in for her stray cat and buys them in bulk). They are super expensive at the vets office here in Canada so what she does is buys them on different sites....http://www.entirelypets.com/6pakfedire48.html?__utma=1.474783996.1231610359.12 49315077.1250434057.7&__utmb=1&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1250434057.7.5.utmccn%3D(referral)%7Cutmc sr%3Dentirelypets.com%7Cutmcct%3D%2F%7Cutmcmd%3Dre ferral&__utmv=-&__utmk=24176955 , http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O5FRWM?ie=UTF8&tag=catsgoshopping-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000O5FRWM , also off of ebay canada
With the exchange rate and shipping charges she still saves over $70 off of buying from the vets office.

I was going to recommend a product called Justrite to get rid of the smell and stains. It is an amazing product. Better than any product I have ever used. The only thing is it is only available off of the website and in the US. If you know someone that can get it to you from the US I would HIGHLY recommend this product. http://www.justrite.com/123kit.htm

Could you get plastic bed protectors for your bed until you get this under control? You can get them at Walmart, Home Outfitters, etc.

This could also be one of those cases where he wants to go outside so badly because he is always seeing the neighbourhood cats. And is very territorial. My girl cat is like this but thank god she does not spray. She does the motion of spraying but does not release any liquid. Taking him out on the leash supervised more often may help the situation :pray::pray:

I think I covered what I was thinking....if I think of more I will post
Good luck!

Stacer

August 16th, 2009, 11:20 AM

I really have alot to think about, thanks so much to all of you for all of the advice.

I went out yesterday and bought a new type of litter with a cat attractant in it, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed there. I completely cleaned and sanitized their litter area and am in the process of tracking down any source of odours that could cause him to pee again.

Today I'm heading to the health food/vitamin store to find some cosequin, marshmallow root and perhaps some DHA.

14+,unfortunately due to the type of property we own, we can't build a cat run, a yard is on the list of needs for our next home.

I've been looking at our space and trying to determine how to divide things up with gates so he can feel secure in his lounging and playing without doggy interference.

Growler, I am totally willing to go to a homeo-vet. I can't believe I didn't think of this already!!!

Love4, there are no roaming cats in our neighburhood, so I don't think he's stressed in that way. And he has never actually sprayed, just urinated.

Khari, we are super vigilant about what we leave lying around and thought we knew his preferences for peeing. This time around he changed the rules on us. He used to only pee on things that were on the floor, so we never left clothes lying around, as long as they were up on the dresser or on top of the hamper, things were cool.

We have been using giant rubbermaids for a few years now, Angus would often over-shoot the smaller boxes and pee onthe wall, so tall rubbermaids were the solution.

I'll look into some of thoise things you listed as well.

Thanks so much everyone!!

Love4himies

August 16th, 2009, 11:23 AM

Jasper wouldn't necessarily spray, he would jump on the couch and pee. Most times we never saw a cat either, we just knew there was one around by his intense sniffing of bushes, then he would spay it.

14+kitties

August 16th, 2009, 12:10 PM

Ok, haven't completely given up on this outdoor thing yet. I know there are rules about what you can erect in places like yours but could you do a kitty veranda? I went looking for dmc123's threads from when she and her roomie got theirs last year. Maybe something like that would let Angus get some fresh air and save your furniture and whatever else he is using. :shrug:

Today I'm heading to the health food/vitamin store to find some cosequin, marshmallow root and perhaps some DHA.

Oops, I should have mentioned that Cosequin is only available from your vet (or online). For the DHA, look for capsules of omega3 fish oil (I like sardine and anchovy, which I think is better than salmon for environmental reasons) without any added omega 6 or 9. Some good brands are Genuine Health, Natural Factor's, Nordic Naturals.....

otter

August 16th, 2009, 12:40 PM

Awww Stacer :grouphug:
I don't have any advice but I share in how frustrating it is!

:goodvibes: that some of the great advice here finds you some help.

Stacer

August 16th, 2009, 07:41 PM

Oops, I should have mentioned that Cosequin is only available from your vet (or online). For the DHA, look for capsules of omega3 fish oil (I like sardine and anchovy, which I think is better than salmon for environmental reasons) without any added omega 6 or 9. Some good brands are Genuine Health, Natural Factor's, Nordic Naturals.....

Ah, that would be why I couldn't find it anywhere! The girl at the one supplement store was calling around to other stores for me, trying to find it and no one had even heard of it, lol.

14+, we do have a fair sized second story deck over our driveway which he frequently goes out on, he fell from it about a month ago and we've been reluctant to let him out very much lately. So today I went and bought some plastic garden fencing and put it over the rails so he can't slip through. Now he'll be able to lounge and hang out safely. And today my mom brought us a shallow rubbermaid bin with some sod in it so he can still have some grass under his feet/something to munch on when he's out there. Gotta love moms!

DH just came home from his 4 day boys weekend to find the loveseat covered in a tarp, the cushions strewn about and the slip covers soaking in every sink and tub in the house. He had a great weekend, I had one of the worst ever!:laughing: I think I'll let him take over now. I need a mental break.

Macomom

August 16th, 2009, 08:18 PM

I am so sorry about your cat and his urination issues. I can't imagine how frustrating that must be for you and your pet.
:offtopic: As an interesting aside, I am studying to be a sommelier and "litter box" is a favourable smell in white wine. We are often sniffing trying to find it...:)

Tundra_Queen

August 16th, 2009, 08:52 PM

[QUOTE=14+, we do have a fair sized second story deck over our driveway which he frequently goes out on, he fell from it about a month ago and we've been reluctant to let him out very much lately. So today I went and bought some plastic garden fencing and put it over the rails so he can't slip through. Now he'll be able to lounge and hang out safely. And today my mom brought us a shallow rubbermaid bin with some sod in it so he can still have some grass under his feet/something to munch on when he's out there. Gotta love moms!

[/QUOTE]

I hope he won't be able to jump over the banister. We have a balcony on our house, but I have yet to figure out a way to keep the cats from jumping up over the banister. It would have to have a cover over it I would think.

Stacer

August 17th, 2009, 10:42 PM

I'm getting more and more frustrated by this cat. We've been so vigilant, especially these last few days. Bedroom doors closed, furniture covered in tarps when we're not home and when we're sleeping. I really can't live this way, it's mentally and emotionally draining to have to tarp and untarp furniture and keep all rooms closed off, our house isn't a home anymore it's a piss proof zone. It feels like we're punishing all the animals for the actions of one. The others can't sleep on the bed, the sofa or any other comfortable soft surface, can't roam the house and explore. I feel so helpless.

Tonight, I opened my bedroom door to get ready for bed, then went five steps across the hall to the washroom, I walked back into the bedroom as I'm brushing my teeth and Angus is pissing on the bed, yet again!!!! This is literally a few moments from the time I opened the door. I just bought a new comforter yesterday to replace the one he ruined last week and it's now covered in pee.

I have done so much to try to curb this. I'm waiting to hear back from my vet about the Cosequin and pain meds. I'm going to call again tomorrow.

I've been checking the litterbox frequently the last few days and noticed that there has only been one pee per day in the box, I'm assuming this is Finn's pee due to the sheer volume of pee that Angus deposited on my bed a few moments ago. He isn't using the box to pee at all, and seems to be holding it all day in the hopes of having a place other than the litterbox to relieve himself.

What does this holding mean? Pain?

sugarcatmom

August 18th, 2009, 12:27 AM

What does this holding mean? Pain?

It's possible, or maybe he isn't in pain at the moment, but he remembers past pain while peeing in that particular litter box or in that location. Are your boxes covered or uncovered? What do you clean them with?

Are the 3 litter boxes in the same area of the house? What happens if you put new ones in different locations?

growler~GateKeeper

August 18th, 2009, 12:43 AM

Peeing on these soft surfaces might mean he's in pain - when a cat has a UTI/bladder infection/kidney infection they usually find somewhere soft to stand (clothes/rug/bed/) when they go, in the hopes it won't hurt the same way it did when they tried in the litterbox.

When he had his last full bloodwork test did they check the T4? HyperThyroidism is normally an older cat condition but :shrug: it's possible

Did they check his kidney functions?

mollywog

August 18th, 2009, 01:41 AM

aww poor guy, and POOR STACER! :grouphug: I can't even imagine living like that. Sugarcatmom - good question about the location of the litter box. If he is in pain, I bet he would associate the litter box with that pain. I reallly hope you can resolve this soon :sad: and get back to leading a normal life! :goodvibes::fingerscr

Melinda

August 18th, 2009, 07:01 AM

Stacer, this sounds far fetched, but my sister had a male cat that would do anything to get outside, she'd take him on a leash and he'd make a beeline for the garden/flowerbed and do a pee....inside he'd pee everywhere, she was also at the point of letting him be an outdoor cat, but just for fun she took ground/earth from her garden, grass clippings and all and filled one litter box with it and left one with litter (she had three cats and one small dog in the home) well her male used the earth litter box, it took a couple of weeks for him to quit peeing on her sons beds and use the earth/ground litter completely. could that be worth a try? Or would it be too messy in your home?

sugarcatmom

August 18th, 2009, 07:43 AM

-feliway diffuser on every floor, and by the litter box. we spray his collar down with the feliway spray on a weekly basis.

I'm not sure why I didn't notice this before but for some reason it popped into my head as I was getting up this morning. The last place you want to put a Feliway diffuser is near the litter box! They're supposed to go in areas that you DON'T want a cat to pee. Facial pheromones, which are the happy friendly ones that Feliway mimics, have opposite intentions from the territorial "aggressive" pheromones that are associated with urine and feces. This is why you'll rarely see a cat rubbing its chin on things near the litter box. It could partly be that Angus is now confused by the facial pheromones existing where only butt-end pheromones should be. I would move that diffuser to a location where Angus is currently peeing, like in your bedroom, and I'd also stop putting any on his collar. You want the pheromones to be site specific in this case.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know. :)

Stacer

August 18th, 2009, 05:26 PM

I'm not sure why I didn't notice this before but for some reason it popped into my head as I was getting up this morning. The last place you want to put a Feliway diffuser is near the litter box! They're supposed to go in areas that you DON'T want a cat to pee. Facial pheromones, which are the happy friendly ones that Feliway mimics, have opposite intentions from the territorial "aggressive" pheromones that are associated with urine and feces. This is why you'll rarely see a cat rubbing its chin on things near the litter box. It could partly be that Angus is now confused by the facial pheromones existing where only butt-end pheromones should be. I would move that diffuser to a location where Angus is currently peeing, like in your bedroom, and I'd also stop putting any on his collar. You want the pheromones to be site specific in this case.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know. :)

Jeez, that's a good point! I'll move it right away. The litterboxes are in the laundry room on opposite sides.

I just got off the phone with my vet, she's trying to figure out the proper dosage for the Cosequin. She's also going to prescribe some Metacam. She wasn't sure that the Buprinex was available in Canada, but was going to look into it. She also suggested a homeopathic remedy called Cantharis which might be effective.

I'm going to pick up the Metacam tomorrow. Has anyone used the Metacam for cystitis? If so, what has the effectiveness been?

Growler, when I had him in last week they only did the regular urinary work up, no blood work. I could ask about it when I go in tomorrow morning.

Melinda, he has never once peed outside when we've had him out. He rolls around on the front porch like he's in ecstasy, chews the plants in my garden, then tries to visit the neighbours. We've been buying catgrass and my mom brought us a shallow rubbermaid bin with sod in it for him. He loves to eat grass, so we thought this might appease him to a certain degree.

sugarcatmom

August 18th, 2009, 06:01 PM

She's also going to prescribe some Metacam. She wasn't sure that the Buprinex was available in Canada, but was going to look into it.

Buprenex (aka buprenorphine) is available in Canada, but maybe not through normal veterinary sources. I think my vet said she gets it compounded at a human pharmacy? One thing I do know is that it's quite pricey.

As for Metacam, I'm very leary of using it in cats. While there are lots of cats that do use it without issue, it has been known to cause or exacerbate kidney damage. I'd use the smallest dose possible, and if you plan to use it for any length of time, have blood work and a urinalysis done regularly (like every 3 months).

Stacer

August 18th, 2009, 07:40 PM

He strikes again!!!!:sad:
He did it on the plastic cover on the sofa. WTF!?!?! I think he's getting desperate since there're no soft surfaces that aren't covered in plastic or behind closed doors. At least he didn't ruin anything this time. I sat down and wrote out all the pee incidences in the last week and there were only 2 days where he didn't pee on something, that we know of.

After my last post I decided to google metacam and definitely didn't like what I found. I emailed my vet to let her know I'm not comfortable with Metacam and if we could find another safer drug.

sugarcatmom

August 18th, 2009, 08:03 PM

He strikes again!!!!:sad:

Oh geez. What a little stinker. Any way you can put a litter box upstairs in a main room somewhere? I know it's not so appealing for the humans, but I'm wondering if he's associating something negative in the laundry room with urinating.

As usual, I have a ton of links on this subject. For your reading pleasure:
http://www.catsinternational.org/articles/housesoiling/lapsed_litterbox_users.html (make sure to click the 2 other links at the bottom of this page)
http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/inappro-elim.html
http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/inappro-elim2.html

This might sound harsh and I don't know if it would just end up adding to Angus' stress, but some people have success confining their cat to a small room like a bathroom for a day or 2, along with their litter box, bed, and food. This often forces them to use the box while they're in there, which can be enough to reset their psyche on the subject. If you do choose this option, I would spend lots of time with Angus in the room so he doesn't feel like he's being punished. Also offering a couple choices of litter types (like one clay, one pine etc) in 2 separate boxes to see if he has a preference might be a useful exercise.

RUSTYcat

August 18th, 2009, 09:01 PM

...She's also going to prescribe some Metacam. She wasn't sure that the Buprinex was available in Canada, but was going to look into it....I would really advise you not to accept the Metacam.

Here is part of the background to my recommendation http://www.metacamkills.com

The oral version of this drug is specifically stated by both the FDA and the manufacturer as "NOT FOR USE IN CATS".

catlover2

August 19th, 2009, 12:45 AM

Since all his tests have ruled out any sort of medical problem, it does sound behavioural. If Melinda's idea of earth in a litter box doesn't work, you might get him used to a harness in the house, and then take him outside on a leash to see if he will do his business there? I can well imagine how you're at your wit's end. No, you should not have to live like this, nor should your other pets be deprived of a nice soft spot to sleep. As a last resort, maybe you should consider sending him to a rescue place.

growler~GateKeeper

August 19th, 2009, 01:58 AM

She also suggested a homeopathic remedy called Cantharis which might be effective.

Growler, when I had him in last week they only did the regular urinary work up, no blood work. I could ask about it when I go in tomorrow morning.

Personally I would go ahead with the remedy, definately skip the metacam, I would even wait on meds to see how the Cantharis does but that's just my:2cents:

Indications of use for Cantharis (Urine - Intolerable Urging and tenesmus. Nephritis with bloody urine. Violent paroxysms of cutting and burning in whole renal region, with painful urging to urinate; bloody urine, by Drops. Intolerable tenesmus; cutting before, during, and after urine. Urine scalds him, and is passed drop by drop. Constant desire to urinate.)

You might also ask about Vesicaria (Urinary and kidney remedy. Smarting, burning sensation along urethra and in bladder with frequent desire to void urine often with strangury. Cystitis irritable bladder)

Usually given one or the other not both at the same time.

I must say I'm really surprised there was no blood work done :confused: I wouldn't be surprised to find a kidney infection being part of the problem :shrug:

I sat down and wrote out all the pee incidences in the last week and there were only 2 days where he didn't pee on something, that we know of.

Can you think of anything no matter how insignificant that was different those 2 days from the rest? Was one of those 2 days the day your DH came back from his weekend away?

Stacer

August 19th, 2009, 10:11 PM

I did pick up the Metacam today, but I can't bring myself to give it to him. I emailed my vet and told her I wont be giving it to him and if we could find a safer alternative. I also told her I'd like to do some tests to check his kidneys just to rule out anything there. I'll probably try out the 'cantharis and the other things that Growler mentioned. I'm picking up the Cosequin tomorrow as well.

So far so good today. One incident in the night last night, another pee on the plastic covering the sofa. I woke up to take an advil and took a look around to see if he'd done anything and there it was pooled on the plastic.

I had an interesting thing happen after work today. Angus greeted me at the door and I decided to bring him into the laundry room to hang out and observe him. I petted him and chatted, at first he was wary of the room, sniffing around like he was freaked out. After he relaxed and was rolling around on the floor, I picked him up and placed him in the litter box. I scratched around in it, then he peed!! it was weird, he started off in the pee crouch then was fully standing in the box by the end. I'm just thrilled he did it in the box and gave him lots of praise and lovins. DH did the same later, and Angus gave him a poop.

We're no where near out of the woods, but this is a tiny wee little bit of progress. I'm wondering if something has happened in the laundry room to freak him out. He was wary of the cat door going into the room as well. We took the flap door off so he can have better visibility going in and out, hopefully it makes a difference.

14+kitties

August 19th, 2009, 10:38 PM

I did pick up the Metacam today, but I can't bring myself to give it to him. I emailed my vet and told her I wont be giving it to him and if we could find a safer alternative. I also told her I'd like to do some tests to check his kidneys just to rule out anything there. I'll probably try out the 'cantharis and the other things that Growler mentioned. I'm picking up the Cosequin tomorrow as well.

So far so good today. One incident in the night last night, another pee on the plastic covering the sofa. I woke up to take an advil and took a look around to see if he'd done anything and there it was pooled on the plastic.

I had an interesting thing happen after work today. Angus greeted me at the door and I decided to bring him into the laundry room to hang out and observe him. I petted him and chatted, at first he was wary of the room, sniffing around like he was freaked out. After he relaxed and was rolling around on the floor, I picked him up and placed him in the litter box. I scratched around in it, then he peed!! it was weird, he started off in the pee crouch then was fully standing in the box by the end. I'm just thrilled he did it in the box and gave him lots of praise and lovins. DH did the same later, and Angus gave him a poop.

We're no where near out of the woods, but this is a tiny wee little bit of progress. I'm wondering if something has happened in the laundry room to freak him out. He was wary of the cat door going into the room as well. We took the flap door off so he can have better visibility going in and out, hopefully it makes a difference.

It is possible he just didn't like that darned door. My guys don't like them. Is it possible maybe he was startled once when he was in the middle of a pee by the washing machine starting loudly or something? Maybe there was something heavy in the machine when it started a spin cycle and it banged against the side of the machine? Grasping at straws here. Now that you are making some changes to make things better for him hopefully you will get your loving kitty back. :cloud9: Isn't it great how sometimes we have to be detectives to get to the bottom of our furries' problems?

Winston

August 19th, 2009, 11:09 PM

Stacer I am so sorry your having to go through this! That is the same thing Tabitha was diagnosed with. I was given 2 ways to treat it!

We chose the pheramones and they have been working up until a couple of weeks ago and she started her rampage on Winston again.

Tabitha decided it was okay to pee in Winston's crate. It has a large rubber liner...so I have had to lock up that room because if we leave the door open she goes and does it! Poor boy cant even lay in his crate!

I am darned thankful it is only with Winston and not on our things but it is still really frustrating. We havent been able to pinpoint what provokes her if it is behavioural!

Good luck mf !

RUSTYcat

August 20th, 2009, 01:54 AM

This is an aside to what's happening here, as you may well be on to an answer.

I did pick up the Metacam today, but I can't bring myself to give it to him. I emailed my vet and told her I wont be giving it to him and if we could find a safer alternative....Sugarcatmom has said Buprenex (aka buprenorphine) is available in Canada, but maybe not through normal veterinary sources. I think my vet said she gets it compounded at a human pharmacyso, perhaps you might suggest that to your Vet - or, if there is a compounding pharmacy nearby, maybe call them and inquire. Frankly, I admire that you are able to be assertive when it comes to working with your Vet in the management of Angus' health. So too often, the "intimidation by authority" factor takes over, sometimes to the detriment of our little ones.

I also told her I'd like to do some tests to check his kidneys just to rule out anything there...and sugarcatmom had also said ...While there are lots of cats that do use it without issue, it has been known to cause or exacerbate kidney damage. I'd use the smallest dose possible, and if you plan to use it for any length of time, have blood work...done regularlyThe myth that bloodwork will tell you whether/not METACAM has damaged the kidneys needs to be dispelled - and quick! The FACTS are that standard "bloodwork" won't show (pardon my language) a bloody thing, until 60-75% of a cat's kidney function has already been destroyed. Only specialized tests (link) (http://www.felinecrf.org/early_detection.htm#ERD_test) (most often unavailable to the average kitty parent) may indicate some loss of kidney function.

I want to say this: your love and commitment for and to Angus--- is beyod evidential - it is profound. Hang in there....I believe the solution is close.

Love4himies

August 20th, 2009, 08:02 AM

You are right, rustycat, bloodwork will only start to indicate kidney damage when the kidneys are quite severly damaged. Urine tests are a much better indication of how well the kidneys are functioning.

You may be on to something, Stacer, if something scared Angus while he was using the box, he may not feel comfortable using it again.

sugarcatmom

August 20th, 2009, 11:23 AM

You are right, rustycat, bloodwork will only start to indicate kidney damage when the kidneys are quite severly damaged. Urine tests are a much better indication of how well the kidneys are functioning.

Quite right you both are. I guess I just meant to emphasize that with Metacam use should come careful monitoring.

One other thing. While I do agree that if there are other options, cats shouldn't be put on Metacam willy-nilly, but sometimes situations come up where its use is appropriate (I don't think this is one of them, but the decision isn't up to me). When it comes down to quality of life, Metacam can be a valuable tool for chronic pain management. Yes, Buprenex has less serious side effects, but longterm use of it would be prohibitively expensive for most people. Just my :2cents:

Love4himies

August 20th, 2009, 01:13 PM

I agree, scm. I did use Metacam on Sweet Pea for a couple of days due to her badly burnt paw. There was no time for my country vet to get anything else for her and she was in horrible pain.

RUSTYcat

August 20th, 2009, 02:11 PM

Sugarcatmom- do I ever want to say :sorry:

In reading your reply to my last night's post and then in re-reading what I had written about "myths" and bloodwork...well, now, in the light of day I can see how I might have been seen as suggesting that you were propagating myths!!! I had absolutely no intention of that interpretation, and I should have been much more careful before I pushed the "submit" button. Again, my very sincere apologies for that.

What I did intend to rail about was the pervasive false and meaningless assurances provided by many Vets when they are questioned about the safety of this drug and then, the "intimidation by authority factor" which can diminish our own resolve against its use.

sugarcatmom

August 20th, 2009, 02:33 PM

No worries RUSTYcat! http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Happy/happy-049.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Happy-Smileys.html) You're right about the blood work and kidney damage, and where Metacam is concerned, it's better to err on the side of caution. Thanks for being on top of things!

Stacer

August 20th, 2009, 10:08 PM

Thanks for all your good thoughts, and all the advice has been so great. I've definitely implemented alot of the suggestions. I don't think I could have made it through this without you guys

Even though I won't be putting him on the Metacam, I'd still like to get a better picture of what might be going on inside his little guts. Growler mentioned kidney infections etc... so some bloodwork might just rule out some things that the urinalysis didn't pick up.

I hung out with Angus in the laundry room again today and helped him relax, he didn't pee for me but he was rubbing things and rolling around, sniffing and exploring. I left for a few hours and when I came back he was just going through the kitty door. I quietly watched him while he did a very long pee in the litter box. I gave him lots of praise and scritches when he was done.

2 days no accidents.

I also started adding Solid Gold Very Berry powder to his wet food, so maybe that's helping.

Rustycat, I have asked the vet about buprenorphine, she's working on getting it, but is having difficulty finding proper dosing for cats, I think. It's not one they have ever used or worked with at their practice.

As for being intimidated by the vet, I was at first when we originally had issues with Angus a few years ago, but I did my research and wouldn't give in and I think I created awareness about nutrition with her. She's thanked me on several occasions for keeping her on her toes. I like to think I'm providing a valuable service to the vet, challenging her to look further instead of just maintaining status quo.

sugarcatmom

August 20th, 2009, 10:22 PM

I quietly watched him while he did a very long pee in the litter box. I gave him lots of praise and scritches when he was done.

So far so good with Angus. We've had almost 4 days without problems.:highfive: I finally picked up the Cosequin at the vet's yesterday after a delay in the shipment, so I'm excited to get him started on that.

We did not use the Metacam, I'm going to give it back to the vet for disposal.

We definitely think that in addition to the cystitis, something was amiss in the laundry room. We've been spending alot of time with him down there and his demeanour has definitely changed from wary earlier this week, to confidence by this weekend. We're finding consistent pees in box and more poops too, I think he was holding those as long as he could.

For future reference, here's a breakdown of the changes we made in house after he was checked over by the vet to rule out any problems. Hopefully this will help someone else.

-vet check

-wet food only (no more dry for snacking)

-added cranberry supplement to diet

-added cosequin to diet

-put feliway diffusers on every floor (not by the litter box though)

-gave the litter area a good cleaning

-changed the type of litter from pine to a fine clay with Cat Attract in it.

-modified the litterboxes (we use high rubbermaid bins) by cutting out one side so it was easier for him to jump in and out (He really likes this, now he can have his upper body out of the box while he's doing his business)

-made him feel at ease in the laundryroom by hanging out in there with him, and giving him lots of praise and petting when he did his business in the box.

-we made it impossible for him to pee in his preferred inappropriate places by keeping doors closed and covering furniture in pastic when not in use.

-thoroughly cleaning anything that he had previously peed on so that he won't return to the same spot.

I'll let ya'll know how we do this coming week, keep your fingers crossed that he does well.

Thanks for all the help, I would have gone crazy without it!!:o

Frenchy

August 23rd, 2009, 12:00 PM

omg Stacer , you have the patience of a saint !!! :angel:

Good luck , I'm hoping you'll keep seeing improvement :goodvibes:

ancientgirl

August 23rd, 2009, 12:26 PM

Good luck! I hope the changes you made continue to work. I wonder if adding cranberry to my gang's diet might be an added benefit for them.

Stacer

August 23rd, 2009, 02:34 PM

Good luck! I hope the changes you made continue to work. I wonder if adding cranberry to my gang's diet might be an added benefit for them.

AG, i think you just have to be careful that it doesn't make their urine too acidic, that's when calcium oxalate crystals form, which are the worse of the two. Is that right SCM?

Love4himies

August 23rd, 2009, 02:49 PM

That is correct, stacer.

ancientgirl

August 23rd, 2009, 03:05 PM

Hmm, maybe I'll stay away then. They're fine on the pee front.

catlover2

August 24th, 2009, 12:07 AM

Thanks for documenting all the changes you have made....fantastic. :angel2: Glad he's done a turnaround and hope he continues using the litter box. gr8! :thumbs up

Melinda

August 24th, 2009, 07:35 AM

oh I'm sooo glad things are improving for you Stacer, here's hoping it just continues to get better and better

mollywog

August 24th, 2009, 07:40 AM

that's so good to hear that things are improving. Small steps! :thumbs up Be sure to keep us updated!!

Khari

August 25th, 2009, 08:47 AM

I thought Metacam was not good for cats. It may cause kidney failure??? How is your kitty doing now?

http://www.metacamkills.com/

http://www.persiancats.org/Medical_Alerts_News_PHCR.html

http://www.felinecrf.org/causes_of_crf.htm#metacam

14+kitties

August 25th, 2009, 09:00 AM

Khari - In post #48 Stacer said.......
We did not use the Metacam, I'm going to give it back to the vet for disposal.

I thought Metacam was not good for cats. It may cause kidney failure??? How is your kitty doing now?

http://www.metacamkills.com/

http://www.persiancats.org/Medical_Alerts_News_PHCR.html

http://www.felinecrf.org/causes_of_crf.htm#metacam

Stacer

August 25th, 2009, 02:12 PM

Yup, it's bad for the kidneys, which is why we didn't end up using it. Plus I really don't think he's in any pain. If anything, I'm leaning toward anxiety/depression.

He's doing OK now, he had an incident overnight last night, peed on the sofa again. Good thing we're still keeping the tarps on it while we're sleeping or not at thome. He went 5 days without problems, so I'm not sure if this is just a blip or if he's decided he doesn't like the litterbox again. I'm home from work today so I'm keeping a watchful eye on his litterbox habits.

lindapalm

August 27th, 2009, 11:14 AM

I'm going through the exact problems with a male cat you are, and its with the only one of my cats that has ever been outside (he's snuck out 4-5 times, and sprayed on bushes) I wonder if being outside is so alluring to them that when their inside, they want to go outside so bad they mark everywhere. Mine is always trying to sneak out, but I don't believe in letting them live outside. Hope you have luck, my house is shot.

Stacer

August 27th, 2009, 06:14 PM

Lindapalm, I've read that the longer a cat doesn't use its litterbox, the harder it is to get them to use it again. Luckily in our case it had only been a matter of weeks, I think in your thread you had said that it's been months. I hope you can find a solution. Perhaps confinement with litterbox and food/water only will retrain your kitty to use the box.

Angus has had no more slip ups this week, but we're so not ready to remove tarps or open doors, he needs to prove himself for a few weeks more I think.

lindapalm

August 28th, 2009, 07:10 PM

Stacer, I believe that the longer they go without using the litter box the harder iit is to get them to use it. We have eight cats, so I have no clue whether Rocky is using the litterbox and peeing elsewhere, or just peeing all over the house. Still waiting for him to pee in an empty new box so I can have him tested, but I don't think hes going to. Vet said I can get some crystals to put in the box so he'll pee in them without contaminating the sample. Hes in a large cage in our garage, and I have no clue what I'll do if he has nothing medical wrong with him.

Khari

August 28th, 2009, 09:59 PM

(he's snuck out 4-5 times, and sprayed on bushes).

Why not take him on supervised visits so he can spray his territory outside instead of in the house. I think another forum member does this for her cat and it helps the situation inside the house tremendously. He may be VERY territorial and need to tell the outside cats to stay away from his territory. There has been some great advice given on this thread about peeing cats but there are many other threads throughout this forum that have great advice for peeing / spraying cats as well. Have you tried some of the advice posters have given in this thread. You sound very frustrated :shrug::shrug:

Please consider joining the Feline Inappropriate Elimination group for some help as well http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Inappropriate_Elimination/

Love4himies

August 29th, 2009, 09:04 AM

Why not take him on supervised visits so he can spray his territory outside instead of in the house. I think another forum member does this for her cat and it helps the situation inside the house tremendously. He may be VERY territorial and need to tell the outside cats to stay away from his territory. There has been some great advice given on this thread about peeing cats but there are many other threads throughout this forum that have great advice for peeing / spraying cats as well. Have you tried some of the advice posters have given in this thread. You sound very frustrated :shrug::shrug:

Please consider joining the Feline Inappropriate Elimination group for some help as well http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Inappropriate_Elimination/

That is me. Jasper is very territorial and I live out in the country so there are a lot of stray males around. He will go :crazy: antsy if he smells a cat and can't get outside to spray, then eventually start in the house.

growler~GateKeeper

August 30th, 2009, 02:57 AM

I've read that the longer a cat doesn't use its litterbox, the harder it is to get them to use it again.

I think it more depends on the cat, my girl Duffy was an indoor/outdoor cat until a few years ago when I moved into a 2nd floor apt & she couldn't go out anymore. She hadn't used a litterbox in about 14 years and took to using it again right away with no problems :cat:.

lindapalm

August 30th, 2009, 11:42 AM

I know male and female cats can both do this, but I think the males are guiltier.

Stacer

February 14th, 2010, 10:11 PM

Just wanted to give an update on this thread.

I am thrilled to report that Angus hasn't had any accidents since the beginning of September. We've been faithful withthe Cosequin and we think that this is the reason he's doing so well, combined with some other changes we made to the litter area.

He's been a different cat since the Cosequin kicked in. He's been more affectionate, more playful and his temperament has been all round better. He's even tolerating Skylar better, I haven't seen him swat at her for months.

I just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice that was given. I feel like this thread saved my relationship with Angus.

H.P.

April 25th, 2010, 11:59 AM

I am having the same problems with my cat. The vet said she was probably loosing control with age (almost 16), but it really seems more behavioral to me, as she never goes on the floor, but will seek out something "fabric" to urinate on. I will be implementing some of the changes mentioned here, to see if they help. Just wanted to say a BIG thank you, for giving me a starting place.

Stacer

April 25th, 2010, 09:00 PM

I'm glad we could be of assistance!

Angus has still been without any problems and we still continue to use the cosequin. Truthfully, I'm afraid to stop using it.

Twocents

June 5th, 2011, 08:28 PM

So glad you've been able to help Angus overcome this. How has he been this past year?

Twocents

June 5th, 2011, 10:12 PM

Inappropriate Urination (IE) or peeing outside the litter boxes can have many causes.

I talked with our new enlightened vet about several things & he agrees that IE isn't always a territorial issue. Fearful, sub-dominant cats can also have IE. Pain can cause it, & like others have mentioned, stress & a bad experience in or near the litter box can cause it as well. Our vet is also in agreement that declawed cats often have problems with IE but most vets are unaware of or ignore the connection. Because of this, the public is largely unaware of the problems declawing can cause. :(

Many rescue groups & shelters DO see the connection.
They agree that declawed cats are more likely to suffer from inappropriate urination. Cats that have this problem are sometimes abused, abandoned, relinquished to shelters, re-homed or put to sleep. This consequence of declawing can be avoided by educating about it & hopefully making declaw surgery obsolete.

Lisa James writes:

"I am a cat rescuer. I have worked in the rescue field for 19 years. In that time frame we have had cats from domestic to purebred come through our doors.

99% of declawed cats are turned into animal shelters for one of two behavioral problems. The more rare one is biting. The major one is litter box aversion. Of these cats who will no longer use the box, some can be re-trained, but it takes time, patience, creativity in the owner's imagination, & quite possibly confining in progressively smaller spaces till the cat "gets it" again. Others will never be able to be retrained, despite these methods, & are put to sleep..."

Rest of this article is at http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/declawing-turns-good-cats-to-bad.html

There's an excellent article called "The Declaw Dilemma" that also explains that declawed cats suffer from behaviour problems. It offers rescues & shelters a few great tips about good ways to educate about declawing, http://www.animalsheltering.org/resource_library/magazine_articles/may_jun_2004/the_declaw_dilemma.html - Includes Canadian examples.

Canadian cat rescue group Cats Anonymous, in Orton, Ontario writes:

"...Through the years, we have seen many declawed cats surrendered to our shelter for behaviour issues that can be related to being declawed. Over the past two years, 75% of the declawed cats that were surrendered to us had behavioural problems. In that same time frame, only 4% of clawed cats were surrendered to us for the same behavioural reasons. I think those statistics speak for themselves. Studies show that declawing is a very painful procedure that can lead to long term issues .... both physical and emotional."

From page 8 of their Spring 2010 newsletter, article "Paws for Thought... The Declaw Issue", http://www.catsanonymous.ca/Newsletter%20-%20May%2015%202010.pdf

Holistic vet Dr. Jean Hofve, on her site "Little Big Cat" (http://www.littlebigcat.com) has a lot of good info about feline health, wellness & behaviour. Behaviourist Jackson Galaxy has some helpful article there too (also on his own site, www.JacksonGalaxy.com).

Dr. Jean has been publishing data about the harmful effects of declawing for a few years now.

"Declawing and Science", - Refutes the veterinary associations' claims that declawing is not harmful & helps keep cats in homes:

In the most credible, long-term studies, the data show that up to 1/3 of declawed cats develop behavior problems after declawing.

While declawing (as a single variable) appears to “save cats’ homes,” analysis using a more reliable statistical method (that accounts for all variables) shows that declawed cats are nearly twice as likely to be relinquished to a shelter than clawed cats (actual odds 1.89 to 1, range 1-3.58). (Patronek, GJ, Glickman LT, Beck AM, et al. Risk factors for relinquishment of cats to an animal shelter. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1996;209:582–588.) From http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/declawing-and-science/

"Physical Consequences of Declawing" by Jean Hofve, DVM

"Declawing changes the way the cat’s paws function, and this creates stress on the joints of the paw, wrist, elbow, shoulder, and spine. The cat’s gait changes, as weight is shifted backward from the toes to the large rear pad of the paw.

Research has demonstrated that, after declawing, cats shift their entire weight more toward the hind legs. This is quite a feat, considering that the front legs normally bear about 60% of the cat’s entire weight.

Within 6 months or so, normal weight distribution among the four legs is restored to pre-surgery values. However, changes and stresses within the paw persist and may even worsen due to normal contracture of the severed tendons due to scar tissue formation.

Over time, this altered stress can contribute to the development of arthritis. [This is painful.]

In most older declawed cats, the toes are completely “frozen,” immovable even under deep anesthesia.

Declawing causes observable changes to the cat’s anatomy that are not only visible on radiographs (x-rays) but are obvious to anyone who cares to see them." See photos & x-rays comparing normal cat to declawed ones, http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/physical-consequences-of-declawing/

"Save Our Paws!" site has lots of newer info and links about toe amputations (declawing), http://www.save-our-paws.org/

Declaw Repair Surgery:

"Inappropriate elimination with no other identifiable cause" is one indication a declawed cat might benefit from declaw repair surgery. Declaw repair surgery could help save cats lives if they might otherwise be put to sleep. Dr. Ronald Gaskin does not declaw cats & wishes declaw surgery was no longer available. He has info about how to tell which cats might benefit from declaw repair surgery and has info for vets about it online (videos, PowerPoint presentation), http://www.msvets.com/DeclawRepair.html

If we make this information available to the public and veterinarians, then people could see that declawing causes more problems than it solves.

It's already illegal in many other countries, including those who belong to the EU (European Union).

"Regarding tolerance for declawing in veterinary practice, the United States [and Canada are] unusual compared with European countries. Declawing is illegal in many countries around the world, because it is regarded as inhumane. There is growing support of the European Council's Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals, which prohibits declawing...

Further support for the enactment of laws prohibiting declawing has been expressed by the World Small Animal Veterinary Association, whose convention calling for an end to non-therapeutic surgeries, including declawing, ear cropping and tail docking, has been ratified by veterinary associations from Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia Herzegovina, British Columbia, Columbia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Lithuania, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Panama, Poland, South Africa, Spain, Taiwan, United Kingdom and Uruguay."

Please consider joining the open group on Facebook called "The International Coalition Against Declawing",
It offeris information & humane alternatives. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_176466325713297

Twocents

June 6th, 2011, 03:13 PM

There are so many great suggestions in this thread.

More ideas about preventing and fighting feline stress, pain, arthritis & inflammation which can contribute to inappropriate urination:

Omega-3 Update: more info, more choices,
May 10, 2011, http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/omega-3-update-more-info-more-choices/

Antioxidants,
Jan. 22, 2011, http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/antioxidants/
"In people, a diet high in fresh fruits and vegetables may contain adequate natural antioxidants. Pets eating commercial food, however, do not get enough appropriate antioxidants in the diet."

"**Warning** The popular antioxidant for people, alpha-lipoic acid, is fine for dogs, but relatively toxic to cats. Avoid it, or at least limit it to no more than 15 mg per day."

The Right Weight Loss Program for Cats!,
by Jean Hofve, DVM
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/the-right-weight-loss-program-for-cats/

Cystitis: Stress can cause cystitis. Cystitis is painful. Pain is very stressful. See the vicious cycle?

"Cystitis can be a very painful condition! Cystitis, also known as Interstitial Cystitis, refers to inflammation of the bladder wall leading to painful, frequent voiding of small amounts of urine.

The patient will often start to associate the litter box with his/her pain. This can lead to litter box aversion which causes the patient to urinate elsewhere. In these cases, there may be fewer urine balls in the litter box than usual.

Important: These cats need pain medication such as buprenorphine (Buprinex).

What causes cystitis? I wish that the veterinary community knew the answer to that question in all cases.

What we do know is that cystitis often appears to be linked to stress and the highly concentrated urine that results from being fed a water-depleted (dry food) diet may also be a significant factor in some cats. The concentration of urine is reflected by the urine specific gravity (USG) number found on the urinalysis report...

It's frustrating to see these poor cats leaving the veterinary clinic with no pain medication!

To repeat: We know that stress plays an important role in the cause of cystitis. Can you think of anything more stressful than pain?

See the vicious cycle? Stress can cause cystitis. Cystitis is painful. Pain is very stressful."

...Treatments for sterile cystitis include:

pain medication

increasing water consumption with a canned food diet, etc.

decrease the patient's stress - not always easy since cats can be very 'silent' in their stress and we may not always be aware of what is bothering them

glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate products such as injectable Adequan, or oral products such as Cosequin, Dasequin, or Trixsyn may help

Tricks used to increase water consumption: (see article by Dr. Lisa Pierson)

Note: Water Fountain Study showed that they did not help cats consume more water.
Source: Winn Feline Foundation Blog,
Sept. 23, 2010, http://winnfelinehealth.blogspot.com/2010/09/water-fountains-for-cats.html

Slippery Elm:

"In the case of cystitis (bladder inflammation), Slippery Elm is thought to soothe the bladder lining. However, it is somewhat high in magnesium, so may be contraindicated in dogs who have an active infection with an elevated urinary pH, where struvite crystal formation may be a risk. (In cats, urinary tract infections are very rarely bacterial.) Slippery Elm bark contains natural pentosans, a class of complex sugars that contains the same compound found in the drug “Elmiron®,”the major pain-relieving treatment for interstitial cystitis (IC) in women. Pentosan has been used by the pharmaceutical industry as an anti-coagulant and anti-inflammatory for more than 40 years. (Anti-coagulant effects are not seen with normal oral administration.) Since bladder disease in cats is very similar to that in women, slippery elm may be especially beneficial for our feline friends. Small, frequent dosages of pentosan has been shown in humans to be more effective than single large doses."

Catnip. Fresh, home-grown catnip can have a calming effect when eaten. Sometimes dried catnip is more potent and can cause problems.
By Jackson Galaxy,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/fun-stuff/catnip/

Cat-to-Cat Introductions,
By Jackson Galaxy,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/behavior/cat-to-cat-introductions/
If you go too fast, you will jeopardize the whole process. If it doesn't go well, you might have to start over.

Photo: "Opie's case is a very good illustration of the fact that proper nutrition (NO dry food) is a 'pay me now or pay me later' issue." ~ Dr. Lisa A. Pierson, http://catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth