Questions for our Muslim Community

The Evening Standard, stated that a Sharia court in London adjudicatedon a stabbing crime. The families of the guilty paid the victim compensation. http://goo.gl/JRPcPZ.

They point to a number of Sharia Courts in the UK, including one in Rotherham. Elsewhere research claims that there are approximately 85 Sharia courts in the UK, some may be giving out advice that is illegal. http://goo.gl/f9xap

Efforts to make Sharia wills legal in the UK foundered when the Law Society was forced to withdraw published guidance to help solicitors write them. They discovered that Sharia wills can break UK Law by allowing for discrimination against women and non-Muslims.

There is an accepted arbitration role for Sharia courts in marital & family mediation, though, this is limited & cannot they be used for divorce where a UK civil marriage is in force. There are also significant concerns about the legality of some aspects of Sharia family law with regard to discrimination against women and non Muslims.

Whatever the circumstances, they cannot overide UK Law regarding families and marriage.

I also ask the questions because of some of the strange things that seem to happen in Rotherham.

For example, the allegations of CSE by the former Imam of Tooker Road, his rapid departure for Kashmir. The suggestion that the Council of Mosques and a serving Police Officer were involved in aiding his return, and their alleged failure to formally report his criminal offense of child sexual molestation to the Police.

Indeed the allegations are getting stronger with claims that the parents of the abused children were not only threatened but bought off financially; payment of compensation from criminal to victim being a fairly common Sharia punishment.

To be clear the principle in the UK is “one law for All.” No Sharia Court can adjudicate on criminal matters.

Equally in Islam there is a clear instruction to comply with the laws of any country where one has formed a covenant by entering and residing “Allah says: “Oh you who believe! Fulfil (your) obligations.” [Sûrah al-Mâ’idah: 1]He also says: “And fulfil (every) covenant. Verily! The covenant will be questioned about.” [Sûrah al-Isrâ’: 34]He says: “And fulfil the Covenant to Allah when you have covenanted, and break not the oaths after you have confirmed them.” [Sûrah al-Nahl: 91]”

Put simply to parents, if you failed to report abuse of your child then you are breaking the law of the UK, and that of your God.

We keep hearing these so call allegations, but as yet no evidence has been forwarded to the Police or even Social Services, for further investigation. Just supposed, these alliagagions have any foundation, are these children of school age and wouldn’t the teachers have noticed anything different with their behaviour. I assuming that the Teachers in Rotherham, have all undergone training in looking for signs of abuse, in the pupils?

The CSE against young, indigenous girls started off as allegations. Allegations that were ignored for a long time by the authorities. If you turn a blind eye to abuse, whether through fear, or because you have received payment, then you are complicit in evil.

I tend to agree. The longer these allegations circulate with no-one willing to do anything to escalate it then the more I question how robust these allegations are. I’m not calling it one way or the other, I simply don’t know but some contributors seem to have access to “facts”. and seem to be doing nothing. It is not only the pakistani community who need to stand up and be counted.

Yes we should’ve learn lessons about not investigating allegations, as we now know where the could lead. Putting that aside though, and everybody is innocent until proven guilty. The major and only concern, should be for the welfare of the children. I come back to the teachers, has someone inform Social Services of these allegations, could the local school not be contacted and any Pakistani child with recent erratic and irrational behaviour, be investigated. Surly we have a certain knowledge by now of how an abused child would act. Ethnic senseitivies have no concerns in respect to the safety of a child.

Question this if they are confident they can boycott the police they must have some other process in place for dealing with crime .Instead of reporting there Mosque leader for suspected abuse they sent him away in this case they had evidence of abuse that could be proven but neither SYP or anyone else has interviened instead his home was sold and he was given a pat on the back a golden handshake and moved to a different area sound familiar . Yet at the moment several people of both races have been charged with conspiring . Can I ask did the mosque leaders originate in Murpur and unlike the people charged does he have a vested interest in this area even though he no longer lives here . Why when that girl went missing years ago was Akhtar asked to help even at that stage it was acknowledged that they had influence.The corruption in Rotherham lives on

Anonymous…..The two basic questions are still there awaiting an answer.

By the way, the very recent Ofsted report into Care Homes shows that some of Rotherham’s Child Care organisations still have a way to go with regard to CSE prevention.

As for the Tooker Road Imam allegations….there is an awful lot of chatter coming from a wide variety of sources within the Kashmiri community, not just the usual suspects…and of course a simple denial from the Mosque Council might suffice to shut it down

But back to the core questions, is there a group acting as a sharia court here in Rotherham, and if so what is it dealing with?

The imam allegation is true, on the mosque committee we have a serving Muslim police officer, both Boston councillors know about it and the Asian RMBC officers. The mosque committee on discovering the news got the imam and his family on a plane to Pakistan whilst Mohebeen put a ban on Pakistani community not talking to the police, very convenient as his family members are committee members. The mosque abuse of children is common knowledge since September, what are the police doing about it,? Parents have been told not to report it as it will bring shame to the community. They have some information here to act on. A mosque, imam, abuse of children, but the police will not do anything it will upset community relations p. Nothing changed in Rotherham since Jay.

You make serious allegations that a serving Police Offcier, is aware of a crime being committed, which is not only a sackable offence, but also a criminal one too. You also claim that serving public officials, and an organisation, which is publicly funded is aware of these crimes. Surely it is your moral duty to relay this to the aporia te authorities.

Hmmm,
A 2012 piece from the Evening Standard (a free newspaper handed out on London commuter routes in the evening) detailing one ‘one sharia “trial” ‘ case.
At best the ES is hardly a newspaper of record, but usefully however the piece does mention one name “Youth worker Aydarus Yusuf, 29”.

… and well now, there is a BBC piece from 6 years earlier that mentions a “Aydarus Yusuf” who was a “29-year-old youth worker ” then. I wonder if they could be related?
But this Aydarus Yusuf is a advocate of Somali customary law – gar.
Having read the ES piece, I can’t help feeling that they are confusing a Sharia “trial” with Somali customary law.
** I’d never come across the name “gar” before, Xeer is the word I knew the system by.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeer
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This is the BBC piece – please read the whole article, it puts a whole lot of things into context.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6190080.stm

RR; agree with you about the Evening Standard’s values and although you didn’t quite say it, its right wing leanings. I will only mention in passing that you criticise for the use of an article from 2012, while you use one from 2006. oh hum:)

However the questions raised by Wil remain there to be answered and if you use the search engines there are plenty of other sites suggesting the increasing role of Sharia law/courts.

I can point out that in the BBC article you point us to there is a women who says she feels forced to go a Sharia Court not out of love, but because some in her community do not recognise a UK civil divorce.

Additionally, an interesting aspect of some white liberal socialists is that they turn a blind eye to the inherent second class status of women within our local Kashmiri community. Even when such is contrary to the laws of Allah and the teachings of Mohammed

The article you cite also points out that in Sharia it is much easier for a man to divorce a women than vice versa. And when attempting a divorce a women can find herself shunned by her community.

We hear a lot of cant, poppycock and political bull about UK values, and it is not my personal favourite term to define a sense of shared community values. However I hope we all agree that equality in front of the law is a right for all women, and acknowledge that that this does not happen under sharia.

It is a perverse element of many uk liberal socialists that they ignore the clear misogyny within our Mirpuri/Kashmir communities.There seems to be a confusion of the term international socialist, which actually means fraternity between socialist of all countries, and a blind love and tolerance of all that is foreign.
Grrrrr, wuff wuff

No the Liberals did not ignore the Balant contradictions of Sharia law with equality of the sexes, they deliberately choose to accept it as part of there multi-cultural thesis, that accepts any perverse and disriminared customs from a foreign culture. I think the Jews have some laws pertaining to divorce, which discriminates againist women, in Favour of men.

The Liberals, you will find , will tolerate anything, so as to give the illusion of one big happy family. That’s why they were prepared to accept the rape and abuse of children and even tried to cover it up. Even to claim it is wide spread and amongst other racial groups. To this day there claiming its only a few, when they know it’s wider and it’s cultural, within the Pakistani community. Hence its always Asian, when there is no evidence of other racial groups have been abusing little white girls other than Pakistani Muslims on a scale unimaginable.

When Braitain first had there March, to be counter by the anti racists lot, why didn’t the anti racist not march in solitary for the little white girls, are they not a racial group.

1. I pointed out that it was a 2012 piece simply to show that Wil had had to dig back to find something that supported what he was saying – though I do recognise that he was only using the piece because of it’s reference to a Sharia Court in Rotherham. (He possibly googled for “sharia rotherham” and it came up – it’s a process known as googleSNAP!

2. I cited the BBC 2006 piece, cos that was all that came up when I googled the name of the guy. … and lets face it, it did throw some light on the ES’s distorted agenda.
As for the ES being right of centre – well I can only think of 3 members of the UK MSM that aren’t: the FT, Guardian, and Daily Mirror.

3, I know little or nothing about what happens in the Mirpuri/Kashmiri community here or elsewhere, I’m not even aware of having had a conversation with a single member of it. My only Muslim friend from the Indian subcontinent is a Gujerati whose family came here via Tanzania.

4. I think of Sharia in terms of the legal system of Saudi, and I find that barbaric, medieval, and utterly disgusting; and only to reminiscent of the Spanish Inquisition and other ugly distortions of what I have always assumed was the Christian message; just as Saudi sharia is a distortion of what I understand of Islam.
Do I need to say that I am a atheist?

5. I have no idea if there is a Sharia Court in Rotherham, and I doubt very much if the ES hack had either – lets face it he got his main fact utterly and totally wrong.

There have been a number of cases where cultural practices, customs and tribal laws some how become attributed to the religion when it has nothing to do with the religion. See the case of Mukhtran Mai who was gang raped as a punishment for her brother talking to a girl of different caste and recently there is a case in India where a sister of a man has been sentenced to be gang raped after her brother ran off with a woman of different caste. Does this mean Hinduism endorses such barbarities?

“It is a perverse element of many uk liberal socialists that they ignore the clear misogyny within our Mirpuri/Kashmir communities.There seems to be a confusion of the term international socialist, which actually means fraternity between socialist of all countries, and a blind love and tolerance of all that is foreign”

Perverse is the least of it; sick, unnatural and self-loathing comes closer to the mark; and a blind eye to whatever doesn’t fit their “hard left paradigm”

“The problem with child abuse, for someone like Corbyn, is that it dosen’t slot neatly into a hard left paradigm. The various child abuse scandals raise some uncomfortable issues for the left.

One is whether some left-wing politicians and local authorities put identity politics – gay rights, multiculturalism – above the protection of children; evidence from Islington in the 1980s to the recent child exploitation scandals in Rochdale and Rotherham suggests pretty conclusively that they did.”

It’s clear that liberal-lefties aren’t going to put up any resistance to society becoming “civilised”, they will continue to excuse, equivocate and haver and then “submit”, along the lines explored in Michelle Houellebecq’s latest book – which is well worth a read

You realise how strong a political thinking is when its core beliefs are challenge by something totally unexpected. The Child sex abuse scandal has exposed the total ignorance and knowledge of the Pakistani’s, by these liberals. Even worse they seem powerless or even remotely bothered to correct thier friends immoral behaviour , even though it contradicts everything they have ever believed. Seems like these so call Liberals principles will only tolerate protections of endanger species of animals, but the protection of white children and women from abuse, from a totally backward culture and religion, can be swept under the carpet.

As I’m not a Muslim I wouldn’t, but millions have no choice and If Rowan Williams and is ilk have their way neither will we. The possibility of British justice being taken from our locality, whilst a Sharia court comes in for Muslims appears to be acceptable to you.

But would they be any need for these courts, if access to the law, was truly free? Look at the recent changes and all the restrictions, being placed upon people. Perhaps there is a need out of sheer desperation for justice.

sba: The title of this topic is Questions for our Musli m Community. In my post at 5.02pm yesterday the question I asked is to determine is there, as the Evening Standard claims, a sharia court operating in this town and if so , did it try the case of the Imam. Are you saying there definitely is not!

Can you tell me what you understand by and consider a sharia court to be first?

Evening standard, Daily Mail and co make many claims but is there any substance their claims? A number of their claims rely on rent- a-gob nut job called Anjum Choudary a self -styled sharia judge and scholar who has gathered a following of about 200 supporters at most which is best a cult of extremists. They seek to make inflammatory claims such as wanting sharia introduction, islam for uk, burning poppies, sharia patrol zones, demonstrating at Wooton Basset, wanting to convert Buckingham Place into a mosque etc…. I do feel sorry for Nicj Griffen as the media does not given the same level of platform to promote his views as it does to Anjum nutjob.
Anjum and his merry men and the right wing groups such as Britain first are the two cheeks of the same bottom – joined together to spout out shite!

You understand nothing. Stereotypes, smears, half-truths, misconceptions don’t become knowledge or increase understanding.
Sorry to disappoint you there is no such court in this town. The local self-styled corrupt leadership could not organise a piss up in a brewery never mind setting up a sharia court.

As some poster earlier has stated it is sharia to obey the law of the land. So muslims are following sharia by obeying and respecting British law despite what the ignorant scare mongers claim otherwise.

Criminals commit crimes for various reasons, factors and motivations etc.. and the come from all walks of life and from different communities.. Criminals are in prison because of their crimes and not because they follow a particular religion. Perhaps you can provide some research and evidence that the “disproportionate” number of muslims in prison were motivated by their religion to commit their crimes and then tally this to explain why the overwhelming majority of muslims in UK are law abiding citizens?

I did not say they were in prison because of their religion. You say that Sharia law says Muslims should obey the law of the land they are in, I made the relevant comment that the disproportionate number of Muslims in our prisons cannot have being following the particular Sharia law that you mentioned can they. Do you dispute there is a disproportionate number of Muslims in prison?

Can you provide some figure to back up your claim? and further you mentioned “disproportionate number of Muslims ” so what exactly are you implying by stating the are muslims?
As I stated previously criminals exist in all communities , people commit crimes for various reasons, factors. All religions preach good and against evil yet there are followers of other religion in prisons also so what is your point about “your relevant comment”?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0444flh There is plenty of evidence of the disproportionate number of Muslims in prison, if you care to look for it. This link to the Panorama programme: From Jail to Jihad that was broadcast earlier this year states the Muslim prison population has doubled in the last ten years and they are now 1 in 7 of the number in prison, but as you’re in permanent denial about the disproportionate number of Muslim criminals, I can’t be bothered to reply to anything you say.

Correction that should have been earlier last year, not this year. It’s almost certainly increased since then. And without wishing to prejudge their cases there is a distinct possibility of the accused Rotherham, Muslim paedophiles adding to the number.

(My understanding is that the figures are comparing 2002 to 2012 prison populations. (a linky to the source of the data is down below). )

Nationally some 14% of males in prison are Muslim – a doubling in 10 years or so.
In London it is over 20%.
The fact that the UK Muslim population is more age-clustered in what might be considered the “criminal years” of say 17 to 35 than is the non-muslim majority, does have some effect on the numbers, as does police attitudes towards minority groups; but nothing explains the doubling of that percentage from circa 7% to circa 14% in just 10 years.
It is most troubling.
However on a brighter note Muslim prisoners have a significantly lower re-offending rate than the prison population overall.
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The statistics can be found here:https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/ministry-of-justice/about/statistics
– but like almost all http://www.gov.uk stats they are hard to plough through and near impossible work with without putting a lot of work in oneself:https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/ministry-of-justice/about/statistics

Do they establish the prisoner’s muslim religion has something to do them being in prison?

@malcontent

I have not refused to accept anything. Carefully re-read your previous posts and mine on this thread.
The stats do not reveal or provide evidence it is the muslim religion that is behind their crimes and them being in prison. If you were not implying this then what were you implying with your comment about the disproportionate number of muslims in prison?

Not that long ago stats were given about the disproportionate number of black people in prison, one Police Commisioner of London Metroplitan police claimed the 80% of mugging were carried out by black youths in London.

“On Monday, in an article in the London Evening Standard, Sir Paul used more careful language. “A large proportion of victims of mugging in London tell us that their assailants are black,” he wrote. “These young people, a very small percentage of black youths, are not becoming criminals because they are black. It would indeed be an unacceptable slur to suggest that …”