Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

KiloGolf wrote:They have no excuse. If they wanted Ukraine to stay allied, they should have kept Russian Army bases and air bases throughout the country and lobby Ukraine to join CSTO or whatever. Kuchma was allowed to play ball in the West, he shouldn't have. In the end, Russia paid for Ukrainian companies to stay afloat at the expense of national security (deal such delicate contracts to a country that wants to join your enemy's alliance).

Personally speaking without wishing to go into it too much, my suspicion is multiple.....

A) Ukraine would have been hesitant for more Russian Bases regardless whom was in charge....

B) Attempting to force obviously would draw the heat/animosity of the western world far earlier in time, when Russia was obviously far less comfortably positioned to deal with it

C) The Contracts/Work in Ukraine helped provide workers for the sections of Ukraine that indeed often did try and remain friendly with Russia (or were generally more sympathetic to the idea good ties including trade = good for Ukraine)...The argument many of these people had for maintaining good ties with Russia was in part motivated by these very continued 'trade arrangements'. Even up until the Orange Revolution whilst Ukraine wasn't exactly a reliable partner Politically, they hadn't gone quite completely out of control...... No so rapidly...

D) As Garry points out Russia probably had enough things to work on over much of that time, and with limited budgets that means priorities (and to a degree no reinventing the wheel for every possible outcome)....

IMHO the reality is Russian Shipyards etc over the years have had issues with settling on final design requirements, meeting production deadlines etc without the additional hurdle of creating new power plants and getting those out reliably....That the Ukrainian Card was pulled out from their hand has created issues certainly, and there are longer term lessons to be taken from it but as we see Russia is far better situated today to adapt to those new challenges and *fairly* rapidly overcome them. That a significant portion of Ukrainians didn't have the rug pulled out from underneath them has probably also helped many in Ukraine (especially those associated with Industry) to remember which side their bread was buttered on.....

I am glad to see more of these Stereguschiys being put out despite their argued limitations.... What I am most interested to see is how production speeds vary (and ideally improve) over time.With the most recently laid down ships still having a predicted 3-4 year construction - commision date vs the latest Arleigh Burkes being doable in about the same time that leaves a lot of room to improve

Not wanting to bring up the political aspects but was reading in another forum apparently the sudden improvement in 20380 productivity at Amur may be not only a result of a cash injection &/or rigorous oversight from high levels of Govt but to a previous boss being arrested for corruption & an injection of motivated ex-Ukrainian workers from Nikolaev.Would also explain why they're now talking about a Karakurt build there as well.

hoom wrote:Not wanting to bring up the political aspects but was reading in another forum apparently the sudden improvement in 20380 productivity at Amur may be not only a result of a cash injection &/or rigorous oversight from high levels of Govt but to a previous boss being arrested for corruption & an injection of motivated ex-Ukrainian workers from Nikolaev.Would also explain why they're now talking about a Karakurt build there as well.

I think injection of some motivated Ex-Antonov engineers will be helpful for Ilyushin as well.

I think injection of some motivated Ex-Antonov engineers will be helpful for Ilyushin as well.

Ilyushin is doing fine. They restarted production of upgraded Il-76 and created Il-476 literally from nothing all on their own. Old factory was in freakin' Uzbekistan (I mean, are you kidding me, WTF commies???)

They now need expanded facilities and new projects and orders.

Very last thing they need is pile of incompetent leftovers from a company that has been unable to produce a usable aircraft for past 3 decades despite having everything given to them on a silver platter.

Intentionally compromising quality of your workforce would be extremely stupid.

Sounds suspiciously like the claim that it was captured Germans that created most Soviet weapons in the immediate post WWII period.

Even super skilled workers can't just go into a new factory and suddenly change production rates beyond all recognition... they have to learn to use the equipment too and to design new products.

@kilogolfWhat are you saying?

Are you suggesting that Russia should have just ignored the Ukrainian demand for independence and forced it to remain part of Russia?

Heck, if they could do that there why not just do the same in every former Soviet republic and keep the Soviet Union going?

_________________“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

Sounds suspiciously like the claim that it was captured Germans that created most Soviet weapons in the immediate post WWII period.

Even super skilled workers can't just go into a new factory and suddenly change production rates beyond all recognition... they have to learn to use the equipment too and to design new products.

Well thats a very different & negative interpretation than I had

I took it as implying ethnic Russians (or sane Ukrainians I guess) eager to show their worthiness to stay in the Mother country & not get sent back to Ukropia 404.I doubt there is particularly much difference between methods/tools at Nikolaev & Amur so skills should be pretty transferable.I'm pretty sure lack of staff has been a claimed issue for Amur so new bodies even if not particularly skilled would be likely to help a lot.

Whatever the cause Amur getting its act together & getting the much delayed 20380s out the door is a good thing

A series of interesting pictures of the projected 20380 "Gromkyy" corvette under construction at the Zeya dock with a floating dock at the Amur Shipbuilding Plant JSC (ASZ, part of United Shipbuilding Corporation) in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. Recall that the second under construction at the site for the Russian Navy corvette project 20380 "Gromkyy" (plant number 2102) was withdrawn from the plant's dock at the floating dock "Zeya" on July 28, 2017.

In the autumn, the "Gromkyy" corvette should be transferred for completion and subsequent testing for the new NAZHD commissioning base in Nakhodka. The delivery of the ship of the Navy is now scheduled for the end of 2018.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:From what I understand the remaining project 2038's will all go to the pacific fleet.

Actually after Sovershenniy and Gromkiy, the Pacific Fleet will receive two more normal Steregushchiy corvettes named GRF* Aldar Tsydenzhapov and Rezkiy, while the Baltic Fleet will also receive two of them named Retiviy and Strogiy.

They will also get the first two 20385's.

All four Gremyashchiy corvettes will go to the Pacific Fleet, the Northern Fleet will receive Derzkiy (Project 20386) corvettes.

The launch of the Corvette "Retivyi" is scheduled for the second quarter of 2019. The transfer of the corvette to military seamen should take place in 2020.

The Northern Shipyard is building five corvettes for the Russian Navy: Gremyaschiy and Agronny (Project 20385), Reticy and Strict (Project 20380), Derzky (Project 20386). The designer of all the corvettes is the Almaz Central Design Bureau, the leading developer of surface warships for small and medium displacement.