Because the World Cup starts today, and with these guys doing our job for us, we’re not really sure we need to be here.

Zero power at Westminster? Not as important as Manchester? Owned by London? No chance of having Scotland’s will respected even with 100 hours of debate? Heavens, it’s almost as if they’re beginning to understand what it is we’re unhappy about.

.

FOOTNOTE

“Disproportionate influence”, Tim Shipman? Here’s the reality of that claim: just 0.7% of votes in Parliament in the first 15 years of this century were materially influenced by the presence of Scottish MPs, even though they represent 8.4% of the UK population. In fact Scotland has disproportionately and extremely LOW influence in the Commons, barely a twelfth of what it should have.

Nadine Dorries admits Scotland’s MPs have zero power. But thinks their action in doing something about that is illegitimate. I know conservatives the world over are not generally speaking renowned for their intellectual abilities. But that from Dorries is extra special.

I sent Nadine Dirries an e-mail yesterday. Don’t know if she’ll read it.

“Dear Ms Dorries,

Thank you for confirming what many of us knew all along, that Scottish MPs have zero power and impact at Westminster.

The government’s power grab on 12th June illustrates that the Treaty of Union, a treaty between two equal partners, is now nothing of the sort. Devolution was killed off last night and colonialism was reintroduced.

The government’s behaviour and your dismissal of Scottish MPs does however have one positive thing going for it. It will drive many more to vote for independence in the next referendum, for which I thank you.

So one act of solidarity from the snp mps bas brought into focus how badly sidelined they were up till then. The level of ignorance shown by those outwith the commons only highlights how desperately we need, as a nation, to determine our own destiny. #scotref or #dissolvetheunion shatever has tbe best chance of success.

First the Britnats likened Scotland to Lincolshire. Now it’s Manchester. We’re a corner of the UK. We keep getting smaller. Next we’ll be equated with a district of an English town. We’ll be Toxteth or Edgbaston or something.

Never mind our 66 000 square miles and our 900 years of history as a nation. To the Britnats we’re the incredible shrinking nation. Oh sorry. Not a nation. Just a wee corner. Sorry we spoke.

The World Cup will likely be the usual dull crap, with the odd good game. This, on the other hand, is edge of the seat stuff!

Got 1000 more of indypostrboys leaflets ordered today – Murray Foote quote from today and one on the democratic deficit. Will be going through doors next week. Only £35. Peanuts. I hope other Wingers will follow.

You do deserve a wee break, Rev. You will be alerted if Twitter is exploding, like yesterday!

@Donald Mackenzie 10.50am

Well done, I like it!

Had the misfortune to see that bellend David Mellor, brought on against Chick Young, as a football pundit. Mellor was apoplectic about Nicola, but,and to his credit, Young told him to stop dragging the sport into politics. Young said he would put money on England, because he was fine about losing it, and when they are out he can settle to enjoy watching.

Statement on Sewel at 13.00 in HoC, that’s how they have billed it. Might be garbage, but odd title

I am surprised that a simple and relatively short walk out has had such an impact. However, I am not complaining. It was the right move at exactly the right time and it has highlighted the contempt and disrespect shown by the Tories to Scotland and it has touched a nerve in the wider public. It has been a catalyst with an explosive reaction that far outweighs its modest proportions.

I listened to the headlines on the radio at 9. They said that they were going to do a phone in on the topic but on past experience I assumed that they had simply lined up the SiU’s most rabid zoomers to rant incoherently about the SNP so I decided to turn the radio off and do something more worthwhile. I may have been wrong but I doubt it…the BBC is nothing if not treacherous and untrustworthy.

Can we have a Wings World Cup of Wankers 2018 – am sure more than 32 will have qualified ? Groups stages, knock out stages and then the crowing of the Turd Champion ? You could even release a sticker album and a wall chart !

All it has done is expose what MP’s from England always thought, I suspect it is also the opinion of most Scottish Unionist MP’s. They never viewed it as a Union but as a subjugation, and their behaviour since has reinforced this to anyone willing to look.

Any Scot who can’t see that we are not viewed as a country but a region (effectively of England as they have 85% of MP’s) is either blind, deluding themselves or in the case of some a bit batshit crazy.

Sadly but unexpectedly the Scottish Labour mob joined with the London establishment to condemn the SNP walkout .Following their MPs abstention on the Brexit vote on Tuesday one has to wonder when , if ever , they will realise that they are supposed to stand up for Scotland and not simply ape the establishment .

Apart from Nadine Dorries confirming that Scotland has zero power and influence, how could what transpired be “choreographed”, unless Bercow himself was in on it?
How would Ian Blackford and his fellow SNP colleagues know how Bercow would react and what his decision would be, unless of course they had a crystal ball!

As far as I can tell from pundits on line Bercow made a mistake and should have allowed the vote…his assistant was pointing that out to him as the MPs were leaving. I don’t think they could have predicted Bercow would muck it up, I think they were just going to protest by delaying PMQ by having one of Westminster’s many arcane procedures set in place. Bercow made it a better protest, we should him chocolates or something 🙂

Come on I think you are all being a bit unfair the Tories and Labour just wanted this small piece of legislation out of the way so it did not overlap the World cup. Had to laugh tho’ at the caption and picture on Twitter showing the England team bus parked in the ‘short stay’ car park at Heathrow.

I think Ruthie will draw herself up to her full height & adopt that power stance like she’s about to deliver the Gettysburg Address , education/ snhs / roads / railways are getting a day off from debate lol .

The walk out whether preplanned or not, was theatre. Parliament has been theatrical all through history. Mrs T the villain with cohorts, jokers, Lord high executioner, mikado style, little lists etc.
Pantomime, the crowds shout, we see it all.

Basking in the ‘love’ this morning…enjoying the equal status as a citizen of the equal partner in this union of equals?

No. Those tweets say it all. Useful that Mr Shipman and Ms Dorries reminds us of how things really are, as if Tuesday has not. Also underlines how little these folks understand the constitutional arrangement.

I think we have to be fair to Nadine Dorries she is is not the brightest light bulb in the pack.

AS for Shipman he clearly lives in a previous century, the 19th century I’m guessing … 4 million people? REALLY? last time I checked I’m sure there were a lot more people living in Scotland than his claimed 4 million.

Oops I forgot Shipman “works” for the Times that well known publication fighting for Scottish independence … NOT!

“Peter Murrell
@PeterMurrell
BREAKING @NicolaSturgeon confirms 5,085 people have joined @theSNP in the last 24 hours. Stand with us in opposing Tory attempts to rip up the devolution settlement and grab powers from Holyrood. “

Scotland isn’t Independent yet. New Zealand hasn’t had £Billions illegally taken out of it. New Zealand does not engage in illegal wars causing the worst migration in Europe since 11WW. New Zealand trades and give aid. Does not invade. Leading to higher wages.

Richard Leonard plumbed the depths of absurdity at FMQT with a question about humming-birds beaks, complete with near hysterical demand of, “What is the First Minister going to do about it!” This doughball has had a whole week to think of something to make himself look clever & this is the result. “Infamy! Infamy!”

Truth will out….not so cavalier with her opinion pre Indy ref 2014…nope…back then…opinions such as her’s were shut down until the goose that lays the golden egg was saved.

Cameron probably appeased her by saying ” Don’t worry once we win then we’ll show those uppity jocks whose powers shall be respected…I have this English votes for English laws to announce once Labour wins us the Referendum….basically Nadine we will kill two birds with one stone.”

You see they just cannae help exposing their true feelings when the Jocks forget who is in charge…it’s almost as though they care not a damn if Scots know what they are thinking…cause they think they have the Union in the bag…well they won the battle in 2014 but they did NOT win the war….frankly the minute the No vote was announced most Tory MP’s deluded themselves into thinking ” Well that’s done and dusted forever”.

Personally I think we need more like Nadine and Tim Shipman because they are NOT in the minority in their opinion on Scotland…they represent a huge percentage of others who also see Scotland as a minor irritating player in UKOK…..I say let them all shed their true feelings on Scots and Scotland and then let’s see those usual twitter yoon suspects spin the comments in a positive way…or perhaps just ignore as usual as does not fit their narrow ( and dying ) agenda.

I say give them a voice loud and clear with maximum publicity because if nothing else it will confirm to others, what we on here, and many other Indy supporting Scots have known all along….that is THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY LIKE US, RESPECT US OR IF THEY HAD A CHOICE….. WANT US. ( Choice being….. if it were not for our resources etc they would be baying for our expulsion from UKOK)

And there we have it. To these people, Scotland is not a country in a union of countries, it is a region like Manchester. Britain is their country, London is the capital and everywhere else are the provinces. Unionists may be happy with this but I’m certainly not.

Just remembering those halcyon days, those golden years, that romantic era of 2005-10, the final 5-year plan, when those merry band of brothers, Stakhanovite Labourers toiling at the Westminster coalface, producing those fruits in such an over-abundance that we could only gaze fondly on, our bespoiled urchin faces shining joyfully through our pitiful polyester rags. A 0.2% exponential increase in overwhelming voting success for the Scotland under our generous General Secretaries ????? ???? and ?????? ????. Despite the politburo policy of Anglification, in those years Scottish voices could still be heard in quiet corners praising ???? and ????, defiantly whispering “he’s no glaikit at a'” or “thon Mandelson’s the daunert yin, no Broon ah tell ye”.
Such blessed memories makes a body long to hand back to Moscow another £1.5 billion in joyous thanks. Spend it on more missile parades, more troops marching through the capital, more Kremlinminster less Holyrood, and to top it all a bronze monument in Glasgow for our first beloved great revolutionary leader Vladimir Ilyich Thatcher. Remember comrades when the 27th Congress of the Union of British Nations passed the torch of leadership to ????, who greeted the beloved Thatcher at the gates of the Kremlin. Even now I cry deeps sobs of joy at that once-in-a-generation picture.
Follow the true path tovarishchi, the path where red and blue make the beautiful royal colour of purple, but if in doubt the ?????? doctrine applies…abstain, abstain with all your proletarian strength. Mother Britain expects nothing less!
This was an excerpt from “Golden Memories of the Glorious Era of the Union of British Nations” by Boris Arsov
(pardon my poor English but I would like to “activate” a special thanks to my old comrade David Leask, Chief of News Propagation, at the Daily Pravda for translations from the original Russian; as David, or Nikolai, as he used to be known back here in Moscow, as David and I used to say “the geese fly only with the dawning of the sun”, Kolya will know what that means…ending of special “activation” of thanks)

Ruth Davidson approached First Ministers questions today with all the enthusiasm of cheap American cheese melting in the heat, she was a chlorinated chicken unable to flail her drumsticks or flap her wings at the First Minister for fear of the obvious replies she would have gotten and her UK American imported Goose would have been cooked

This weeks Labour leader was just as inadequate with his ornithological beak question on *We don’t want no Edyookayshun* when the SNP do it we only want it when we complain about it

The BBC can’t avoid this now they’re in the shit and they’ve been forced into reporting some of what’s happening to Scotland and I would suggest partly through shame at being exposed by the worlds press and TV coverage of the duplicity between themselves and the English government to cover it all up

As others have said, the ignorant and insulting comments the Rev has listed are pretty much the norm down south, not the exception, and they tend to surface pretty quickly if you enter into a conversation ablaw the dyke once they hear your accent.

Recently I was innocently looking at some YT footage of a highland games event somewhere in the USA and someone had commented btl that he loved the pipes and was proud of being Scottish. Some intellectual had commented further down, “We own you, Scotland, get over it” which, tbf, is pretty much in line with the insults above.

Off on your hols, Rev? Is this a two-week bender with Cairns in Magaluf or what? For shame!

“So there is, for many of us, a building resentment at the antics in London. Any stunt by the SNP is exceeded by the daily behavior of the whinnying showpony that is Boris Johnson and the walking hissy-fit that is DD and the Victorian grotesque that is Rees-Mogg.”

Chris Deerin writing in the New Statesman.

Looks like London’s antics are pissing many off that you might not have expected. Could Chris Deerin be the next convert?

The media are playing an absolute blinder for us. Metrocentric, dismissive, patronising. They’re ticking every box right on cue and walking into it with their collective eyes wide open.

Westminster didn’t just disrespect the SNP and independence. They disrespected the Scottish electorate and their own devolution settlement. That’d be the settlement and pledges they promised to the population of Scotland. A settlement the unionist parties in Scotland refused/failed to defend.

Mibbies just me like? But if I wanted to diffuse a situation and win folk over to my point of view? Probably adding naked insult to wilful injury isn’t the path I would choose.

There is no point of debates. Westminster. Except to record objections. Mundell just goes on and on repeatedly, like a broken record. Promoted beyond any capability. No chance of agreement there. Everything he accuses others applies to him, A total hypocritical liar.

Half of the Scottish unionists appeared not to be there.

It likes it will be like Thatcher. They won’t be pleased until they have run down the economy. Then be thrown out. Labour, LibDems are just as bad,

The only time Scotland will get any respect and more prosperous is Independent.

But I guess he was either too slow-witted to just say it, or he knew it would have got him into trouble with his handler. Or maybe he just couldn’t stomach a Scotland of equal status. Either way it looks bad.

They are seriously rattled folks. Keep the pressure on and it won’t be long before they lose the plot completely. 🙂

The Tories believe they have the upper hand because Theresa May said no. I suspect they will try to stop a referendum but there is always more than one way to skin a cat. In fact the so called Scottish Secretary doesn’t even believe Scotland exist, it’s Scotlandshire in his mind.

They are using the might is right approach, in the population sense. I suspect they believe they can just do what Spain did. The big difference here is the Scottish sovereignty issue, I’m no expert on this but there seems to be plenty who are.

Remember back in the heady days of 2012 I used to post in the Grun, and we used to discuss journalists at times? I always figured they were in the position that they could get the stories but also the actual news, and more than anyone should be able to see the reality of an Independent Scotland, and should come out for Indy by and large. In the event we only really got Kevin McKenna and Iain McWhirter, and though that was great, I was very disappointed we didn’t get more. I fairly soon gave up on Sevvie!

I think some did support YES, but because of the Unionist nature of their paper, kept their views for the ballot box. Well, maybe now we’re starting to see that turn, as they look with disbelief at Brexit, attacks on devolution, power grabs, and the contempt Scotland, not just the SNP who many hate, are treated at Westminster. And perhaps too the Growth Commission report was a catalyst as, whether Indy supporters like it, it’s at least brutal and realistic as many have said.

Ken500 Bercow said he was not there, he said he spoke to the mp that made the comment and the mp said he meant political suicide, he then went on for several minutes telling members that the shoukd be careful on language used. So he was not covering up. I thought he was pretty good.

@Thepnr
Yes, I had hopes that would happen in Indy Ref 1, particularly the politicians, and maybe even Labour or the LibDems. I think because support for YES stayed below 50%, it stayed their hand. This time might be different, the LibDems have gone quite quiet apart from the usual comment about the SNP, and Scottish Labour might just go neutral or free vote. Personally I think they’d be wise to. Sticking my neck out again!

They’ve made their choice for the most part in the metro titles in London (boy does it show), which is fair enough. What they shouldn’t then be surprised about is when their own … enthusiasm(?)… for all things SNP and Scotland is used against them. 🙂

Seems there’s been a switch up in tactics to get information out people who need to know what’s going on. Worked rather well too. 🙂

Anyroads just scanned another gem by Mundell. Apparently when discussing the current problem he actually offered ‘We have sought consent’. If true, then four simple words and two biblical fails.

Firstly: ‘WE’??? Last I heard the job is Secretary of State for Scotland was representing and communicating Scotland’s interests within cabinet. That’s probably changed a bit since devolution tbf, but y’know… (shrugs)

Secondly: Consent may have been sought, but it was also flatly refused, which is kinda the point. What UK gov is then doing, is taking WITHOUT consent. WITHOUT permission.

That’d be theft then.

Perhaps Mr Mundell should go for a lie down before stressful sessions? Practice his lines etc. 🙄

@Thepnr
Again sticking my neck out, the Record has been disappointed with Labour for some time, and there’s some good people carefully tweeting on threads. That hummingbird question is indeed a cracker, what is Leonard playing at?

@Lenny
Didn’t see it but sounds fair enough. It’s also noticeable that the SNP didn’t formally complain about the “private sitting” thing, where Bercow was right not to allow the vote itself, but wrong not to allow Blackford to move the request (as far as I can see from the actual wording of the Standing Order). I guess it’s a case of no point in making enemies – apart from the dreaded Tories of course on whom it’s open season.

I see the Yoons favourite political commentator Alex Bell has an article in Courier (I spied it on my trip to vote). Not about the SNP but about Brexit. I think he may get struck off the Green Ink Xmas card list

Last para

Brexit is becoming the greatest policy mistake in modern British history. Worse than the military mistakes of Suez and Iraq, or the low of borrowing money from the IMF, not because of how we voted, but how we handled the result. It will become embarrassing to be British – the people who didn’t have a clue.

I don’t expect any change from the BBC, UK news is pretty much restricted to London. BBC Scotland is treated no different from English regions, it can report on issues that are occurring in Scotland in any depth, WM is basically out of bounds except for small inserts comment pieces about debates relating to Scotland.

Anybody who has worked at BBC Scotland knows the heirachy that exist, it’s almost colonial in its structure. Often a testing ground for London ideas, outsourcing of its engineering was one, Scotland renowned for its engineering but was the only Nation/Region to have this removed and large elements of its systems controlled from London (still does I believe).

STV don’t have this limitation but haven’t shown any real intent to cover Scotland in a acceptable fashion, maybe they are more interested in improving their share value currently.

The events of the last day do seem to vindicate those of us who thought that the wee SNP dip in the last UKGE wasn’t principally due to public resistance to indyref2 but rather the exact opposite, growing disenchantment with the SNP’s perceived lack of fervour and bite, and what was actually needed was less passivity and a more forceful promotion of their own policies, not least independence.

What a difference now. After those HoC votes and treatment, forget trying to do the decent thing by a hell-bent UK and focus on just getting us out of it!

I sincerely and passionately hope that the WM SNP MP’s will now start to carry out their stated intention to use “guerilla” tactics to disrupt WM procedures (antiquated bullshit) and in the process get the WM red/blue tories boiling mad and full of towering anger against Scotland and Scots. Who knows one of them just might lose it and say something like “I wish Scotland would just fuck off” on live tv.

That walkout got lots of badly needed publicity, more similar disruptions will get more of it. I don’t see how the SNP could back off from that now even if they wanted to.

Murray Foote – someone I’d become accustomed to thinking of as the kind of person who I wouldn’t piss on if I found him on fire in the street. Now, whatever you may or may not think of the man he deserves our respect for having the courage to change his previous long held stance and face the britnat fury he’ll almost certainly be subjected to, publicly or privately.

FAO Smallaxe – that was a brilliant wee quote you posted the other day.

Scotland the Brave or Scotland the Slave.

Your Choice.

Absolutely excellent, short, simple, straight to the point but also containing within it a world of truth which even the stupidest people can’t fail to see.

Does Mundell not realise we all know what the ‘UK’ is? Two Kingdoms form the United Kingdom, one of them is Scotland. We’re not a ‘partner’ of the UK says he…he’s a class A fucking imbecile who just blew the gaff on his position as ‘Secretary of State for a Part of the United Kingdom’ Ha ha ha ha…

Mundell must resign from his office…he does indeed ‘NOT’ represent the joint partner Scottish Nation that forms this United Kingdom.

Can’t believe the number of former NO voters on Twitter stating that after the WM shenanigans & Power Grab, they have now switched to YES.

Could this be the tipping-point we all knew was coming? And Brexit has STILL to really kick-in. When those remaining NO supporters (& I’m not including diehard, unthinking, willfully ignorant loyalists here) really sit down and think what it will mean for them and their kids, who the HELL will be left to vote NO.

We must not allow rUK to drag Scotland under with them. It’s sink or swim town, folks!! That means INDY btw!

I can’t recall any debate at Westminster that has changed any MP’s position. Most already hold or are told what their position/vote will be. It is merely a chance to display their debating/oratory skills honed at the university debating society or Eton (what WM seems to be modelled on, hence all the bench slapping and paper waving). Not actually with any real point outside being declared great orators or parliamentarians, most of it is meaningless shite.

I see the LibDems still trying to claim they abolished tuition fees, another one of their ‘compromises’, they merely changed it from up front to graduation fee. It was a prequel to their dirty deals when they got sniff of power at Westminster.

Why is there a Secretary of State for Scotland? If it’s just a ‘part’ and not a partner, why isn’t there a Secretary of State for:

Manchester/Glasgow/Liverpool/Ullapool/Skye/Hastings/Devon/Birmingham/Leeds/Dundee/
Swansea/Tunbridge Wells/Windemere/Stirling/Aviemore/Nottingham/King’s Lynn/Larne/Oxford/Brighton/Perth and on and on and on…why?

Because Scotland is the ‘partner’ ‘Nation’ that forms the United Kingdom.

THIS IS IT FOLKS …”THE ENDGAME” ….following 300 plus years of exploitation and subjugation.

Time to pull out all the stops now, as this will probably be our last EVER chance of getting our Independence: Of having the ability to protect our country in general, our environment in particular and the fundamental human rights and freedoms of our people, especially the poor, sick, weak and vulnerable members of our Scottish society.

It’s OUR collective responsibility now, not just our politicians, to achieve our objective. To gain our Independence to give us the power to protect our country, Parliament and people and we basically don’t have a great deal to do. No more than to be a positive role-model for the Independence movement. Stand together, support each other and welcome ALL former No voters with open arms. If you can afford to do so, support / join / donate to the SNP (and that includes people living in England). Push the SNP membership into second place in the UK, beyond the Tories 124,000, to put the wind right up them psychologically.

Donate to Wings and / or other pro-independence sites of your choice. Buy The National. Sign up to becoming a Business for Scotland Independence Ambassador. Carry informative banners / placards instead of flags, as you attend as many marches as you possibly can across Scotland. Put posters in your garden, on your house windows and cars. Something along the lines of Shinty’s DIY (cost you nothing) bumper car sticker sounds good as one example: ”Scotland – Big Enough, Rich Enough, Smart Enough and Had Enough.”

You could even think of throwing a placard around your neck every time you leave the house, LOL. Combat the Scottish / UK media’s propaganda by doing everything in your power to get the truth out there, as per discussed on this site previously. This isn’t going to go on forever. We’re talking about a few months now. There are 2.5 million households in Scotland. If around 120,000 of us (fit and able SNP members / independence supporters) had to cover them all with the delivery of leaflets etc you’re talking about 21 houses each. If need be hire buses to cover more remote areas.

We’ve been given a second chance to get out of this stinking kakistocracy (or oligarchy, bankocracy, kleptocracy – take your pick). Grab it with both hands.

As the estimable Ian Hamilton QC has foretold, ”The same thing will happen to Westminster (as Russia). One day in Westminster there will be a clap of thunder, the whiff of hail and the power of Westminster will have gone.”

Ian Hamilton in ”Referendum to Revolution” reckoned that the more devolution we acquired, the closer we’d get to Independence. We can clearly see that the process has been exacerbated by them trying, to the contrary, to rob us of the devolved powers that we have, such as powers to prevent fracking …. Thievo-Max as someone so aptly said on here. I wonder what people like Jackie Bird and Gordon Brown have to say about the current Thievo-Max state of affairs? Changed their mind like Mr Foote?

So c’mon folks join our non-violent revolution, get on board, and that includes Scots who think that Corbyn will make a positive difference. Forget it. Do your homework. Check out Labour’s track record in power. Check out Corbyn’s track record in relation to Scotland and don’t forget that England will always be the priority, to the detriment of Scotland, when decisions are being made by most SCOTTISH Labour, Libdem and of course Tory politicians, never mind ENGLISH politicians like Corbyn. Let’s get our Independence and then if it’s your preference vote for Labour. Let’s do this. The Union is over and out.

Bercow denied he had heard the suicide remark. It is all over the internet. Does he not have access to a computer. Found in a minute. The exact recording – even in the Somerset local paper. Slagging Liddell Grainger off. Plenty of criticism. He also complained the SNP ‘ruined his’ country. (Scotland). West Somerset has one of the highest suicide rates in the UK. Hinkley Point is being built near there. To damage the envirinment. Westminster supports nuclear. A complete waste. Bercow is a misogynist bully. Known for harassing staff. Pretentious poseur.

We need a grassroots campaign to win INDY2. Come on Scotland, you can do it.”

Well that’s a maybe, Clive. For several reasons a grassroots campaign may not be needed but a grassroots support is a definite requirement.

So let me explain my thinking before drawing conclusions. It rather looks to me as if the many former legal eagle MPs, MSPs and the Scottish Government legal teams may now have decided what many of we old hands knew years ago and now, reading the Rev Stu’s quoted bits above, where the attitude and knowledge of the unionist, (cough!), intelligencia whose perception is that the phrase, “The United Kingdom”, doesn’t actually mean United Kingdom but instead means one whole country of four countries one of which is really The United Kingdom and the other three countries are United Kingdom, (a.k.a. country of England), dominions, (that is literally, “dominated”), by England.

If you remember that was claimed in a Westminster commissioned paper during Indyref1 and quoted by the Secretary of State for against Scotland as, <i<"The Treaty of Union extinguished The Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom"..

So in the mindset of the yoonatics they are Britain, The United Kingdom and England and all three terms mean exactly the same thing and it is Britain. For some strange reason they cannot seem to see that the British Isles also contains The Republic of Ireland, The Isle of Man and the two Channel Islands Bailiwicks for they claim to be the British Parliament and they own the British army, he British navy and the British air force.

Thing is – that is all rectally sphinctered male bovine waste matter(a.k.a. bullshit). So there may never be a need for a grassroots campaign or a referendum as there is a plainly strong legal case that the Treaty of Union must still be an in force international treaty or logically there would not be a United Kingdom extant today.

So, if the Treaty of Union is still in force then the terms of the Treaty of Union must still be legally binding – no matter how Westminster chooses to interpret the Treaty. Factually the Treaty of Union is an agreement between only two equally sovereign kingdoms and if you add two kingdoms together you do not get a country – you get bigger two partner Kingdom that is composed of Kingdoms not countries.

While it does contain four countries that is irrelevant and, anyway, three of those countries were what composes the Kingdom of England that signed the Treaty of Union.

It sure as hell looks to me that the Scottish Government are aiming to take the matter to the international courts and, if they win, and they will win the case, then there will be no need to hold a referendum as the United Kingdom will be no more. The status Quo Ante being a return of both kingdoms to what they were prior to their marriage made in Hell.

“Unfortunately for their theoretical offerings, Scotland is a country in a bipartite Treaty with the country which has ownership of Manchester,London et al.”

Arrrgh! Give me strength”

The United Kingdom is a union of Kingdoms, Bob Mack, it says so on the tin, (a.k.a. The Treaty that formed it)

When you add two kingdoms together you end up with a bigger united kingdom that is called, “The United Kingdom. It is not a country it is a kingdom.

The fact that one of those kingdoms contains three countries is irrelevant as is that the other kingdom is just one country.

That is exactly what seems to be the tack the SG is now heading towards. They are making the claim that the United Kingdom is legally a union of two equally sovereign kingdoms and thus the present set-up that Westminster has forced upon everyone has well and truly broken the Treaty of Union and that means the Treaty is over if either partner says it cannot reconcile itself to either remain as a partner kingdom or as a subservient country in thrall to the country of England that calls itself The United Kingdom and I have been pointing out the claims they made in Indy1, and I quoteL-

“The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.

Here is a clip of David Mundell, the laughably termed, “Secretary of State for Scotland”, admitting just that on national TV:-

It is clear that Westminster’s game plan regarding Scotland and brexit has been exactly the same from day one – telling Scotland to shut up and do what England says.

I am also of the opinion, that the only reason they have held ‘talks’ regarding this with the Scottish Government for 18 months was for 2 reasons;

1. Divert and stall the Scottish Government – take up their time and effort.

2. For Westminster bods to actually find out how devolution works. Mundell doesn’t know and neither do most folk in Westminster.

The SNP should give them no more time, and if Westminster belatedly decides it will negotiate, then they need told that the price for even starting talks has just gone up.

The Tories are quite simply doing the hard work for independence for us. In their frankly deluded bubble down in London, where they sit and sneer at Scotland, they have convinced themselves that Scotland won’t take action. They are fools. I look forward to the SNP using every trick in the Westminster book of stupid rules to thwartd any kind of progress in Westminster. Talking of silly rules, did you know that right up until 1998, if you wanted to raise a point of order in the commons you had to wear a top hat (seriously). The legacy version which you still see is instead of a top hat they usually have to put their order papers on their head. F*****g ridiculous.

Then there is all the constant standing up and sitting down, to ‘catch the speaker’s eye’. Moronic.

Well done SNP for starting to respond in kind to these ignorant clowns in Westminster. Let’s see more of it.

How about a bit of applause (applause is banned in the commons) or sitting on the Tories seats?? That would seriously wind them up.

Meanwhile, do not forget the indy march in stirling/bannockburn on the 23rd.

– Their understanding of the culture of the HoC is that of a continuing English Parliament.

– Their (in)famous “flexible” UK constitution has room neither for the Treaty of Union which actually created the UK in the first place nor for the clear constitutional principle established in 1998 that “everything not specifically reserved is devolved”.

To everyone who has just joined the SNP, “A thousand welcomes”, hopefully you will now see what a shambles the Disunited Kingdom really is and what the genuine hard working SNP politicians are up against.
But a cautionary note, expect media smears on an epic scale for the party you now support.
I fully expected the gutter press to start the process today, total lies then a retraction/correction months later in said gutter press.

It would be great if the bannockburn march is the biggest yet. All new indy folk and SNP folk welcome. Dogs, kids, rabbits, budgies whatever. These are fun days, and lots to see and hear as well. show you support if you can

Welcome back Petra, great post. Your right, this is the end game and we simply have to win it, for all our sakes.

Munnell disnae half mak an erse oot hisell dis he. What an obnoxious little turd of a person. Mind you if he was forced to resign what worm would they replace him with, Ross Thompson pehaps.

I’m so pleased to see from the internet the number of former no voters who have had their eyes opened and will now vote yes. Murray Foote was a big surprise to me, but he’s welcome aboard just the same. If he can change his mind, well, who knows who else might speak out and join us. You yes yet Henry or still picking skelf oot your bahooky.

Kingdom country county town city wees doant care wees only care about the precious and the precious is ours isn’t it yes it is and we loves the precious doant we yes we do

If Scotland isn’t a country then Mundell is the secretary of state for, what now?
Scotland demands an audience with the secretary of state for Middlesburgh or Bristol Manchester or…. What a shower of….

It is harder to get the actual text of the Treaty itself as it was written in old French so what is quoted here is the Scottish Act of Union but the text is an exact translation of the Treaty wording. Remember that as a whole it is a legal agreement and also that each Article of Union is also a legal agreement in its own right. Read article of union XIX/, (19), in particular.

Note there is no mention of country or countries and there are only two kingdoms in that union yet, in 1706/7 both Wales & Ireland were parts of the Union as internal parts of the Kingdom of England.

Bill Purves, the term United Kingdom of Great Britain is used throughout the document.
Excerpt from treaty.
the two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof, and for ever after, be united into One Kingdom by the Name of GREAT BRITAIN; And that the Ensigns Armorial of the said United Kingdom be such as Her Majesty shall appoint,, and the Crosses of St Andrew and St George be conjoined, in such manner as Her Majesty shall think fit, and used in all Flags, Banners, Standards and Ensigns, both at Sea and Land.
Article III states ” THAT the United Kingdom of Great Britain be Represented by one and the same Parliament to be stiled The Parliament of Great Britain.”

Well if they haven’t learnt from Wednesday then those 533 England supremacists really are thick as 2 short planks no wait 2 short planks are more clever than that seriously that walkout has sent a shockwave through the corpse that is the UK snp membership up faster than a rocket and the mail say that’s a backfire are they on drugs these days or what.

jist a wee dochan doris jist a wee tory that’s all
jist a wee ignoramus the tories huv them a
you have a ruthie and a Tompkins an a boris ana
jist like wee dochan doris there are all shit bags you know

“Bercow said he was not there, he said he spoke to the mp that made the comment and the mp said he meant political suicide, he then went on for several minutes telling members that the shoukd be careful on language used. So he was not covering up. I thought he was pretty good.”

That’s comedy gold, Lenny.

In the first place the incident was during the debate and Bercow as the speaker in the chair – WAS right there.

In the second place the MP who shouted – not just said – “suicide”, was very plainly heard and the HOC is well covered by microphones but those mics are controlled and set to cut down the worst of background noise so that the business of the house is clear. Otherwise business could not be conducted. There is no way that Bercow did not hear the MPs shouted comment.

Bercow was not, “pretty good”, and was very obviously flustered, Caught with his proverbial pants down in fact. Furthermore he did indeed correctly first give the correct standing order decision. Which was to offer the choice to the member making the request that the House debate in private of the matter going to a private sitting immediately of after the current business in hand. The member very clearly indicated immediate go to private.

At that point there was an intervention by a Tory whip and Bercow immediately changed his decision and then compounded his crass error by expelling the member.

”
The events of the last day do seem to vindicate those of us who thought that the wee SNP dip in the last UKGE wasn’t principally due to public resistance to indyref2 but rather the exact opposite, growing disenchantment with the SNP’s perceived lack of fervour and bite, and what was actually needed was less passivity and a more forceful promotion of their own policies, not least independence.”

The above comment is spot on for me. I have increasingly why I should fight for the SNP, when they themselves don’t seem to have much fight in themselves.
I haven’t re-joined yet, because I’m not going to get exited by one single walk-out, but if this is indeed the beginning of the SNP getting some fire in their bellies, then it won’t be long before I am a member again.

I’m just thinking anon about the use of the word “stunt” being bandies about by BritNats to describe yesterday’s procedural intervention and walkout by the SNP, which in itself is actually a gross insult to the SNP, and through them to the people of Scotland, because it implies that, like a lot of the nonsense that regularly passes for business in the low chamber, it is insincere and merely another silly game, whereas the offence caused is most certainly deeply felt by many.

This is what WM regularly fails to get from within their cosy little procedural bubble, that a vast number of people in Scotland are genuinely and thoroughly disgusted by their goings-on in general, and by their arrogant and dismissive treatment of Scotland in particular, not least after we gave them one last chance in 2014 to do the right thing by us.

As I’ve said many times before, the real architects of the inevitable forthcoming collapse of the Union, under the ever-increasing weight of its own manifest contradictions, are the damned Unionists themselves.

The SNP’s imperative in government was to govern Scotland well. To not do so would have sunk independence forever.

I am surprised that so many people fail to understand that was what they had to do above all else.They will not get the credit for governing Scotland far better in every area than what is happening down south but if they had not done so they would have been crucified. You know? The “day job” stuff

Thankfully naivety is not one of Nicola’s characteristics and her agenda which has led us to this place is brilliant.
The independence campaign now restarts from the best possible place.

Forget this grassroots campaign to win Indyref 2. We need to just leave. The old laws of union are broken and I am sure many international lawyers would agree any modern version of what the binding agreements of union were are now wiped out.
So like many other countries we need to enact self determination soon. It has to come from Scottish Government for the people, that is only way we can have true credibility.
A referendum will be corrupted again and we lose for ever

But who is “we” and what is self determination for Scotland? How do you determine what it is that the people of Scotland want, do you need a majority, or would you have a minority impose their will on the majority, whichever way that goes? That isn’t self-determination for a People, it’s a dictatorship of some sort, an autocracy, a coup.

Mike Cassidy 8.07pm OMG Mike I’ve just brought up my dinner , I couldn’t read any further than Deerins sycophantic slithering words
( Davidson’s future is a thing of endless, fascinating debate, and rightly so. I’ve met a lot of politicians in my time, old warhorses and young lions, and she is the genuine article, the real deal ) and this twat classes himself as a journalist Ha Ha Ha

Petra nice to see you posting again your words are inspirational

BTW I just realised when we become independent the butchers apron is no more they will have to sell them as relics in pound shops , OMG what are the brit nat imperialists going to worship and wave , unless they just take out the blue for the saltire

Ian McCubbin @ 9.13
Aye… Much of what you say is true,but thats no the path we are on at the moment.
Although Alex Salmon did point out that there are many routes by which Countries can gain their independence!
Nicola has stated many times that she believes that a vote is the way to go.
So right here right now… We are going for a vote,so we do need the grassroots,and a fair few No voter’s from last time too!

……………………

RE. Lenny Hertleys post @ 9.08
About the wording of the Treaty of Union.

Just an FYI…..
The wording,,,and forever after,,,, means while the Treaty is a LIVE document.
When the life of the Treaty ends, ” forever ” has been reached.
The same with all the other similar terms,”in Perpetuity” and such like.

Fluffy and his crew are so slippery with words (think Normally),as are the Talking Heads (its the Bank of ENGLAND,so its clearly all ours)
I thought it would be useful, before they start to claim otherwise to point it out!
No document is/can be immortal,that would be ridiculous,but, they can indeed be ridiculous.

Patrick can speak for himself, but my take (being the source of his quote) is not that the SNP have been badly led from the top – far from it! – but rather that after the UKGE election, there were a number of people in the SNP – especially those MPs and ex-MPs – who gave every impression of having lost their nerve, since they were claiming that there was insufficient public appetite for another independence referendum, largely on the basis of the result. My view – and one which I thought you shared – was the exact contrary, it was rather because the SNP were not sufficiently upfront about independence during the election campaign, and conceded unnecessary ground to the Ruth Davidson Party, that their support slipped.

Even worse, the resulting evident lack of self-belief from those who seemed to be saying that all we could do was wait passively until better times eventually came along (somehow, unspecified) was actually in danger of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, one of complete stagnation.

Of course it’s all down to timimg, we all realise that, and the time may not be quite right even now. But the events of the last couple of days days do demonstrate clearly, IMO, that if the SNP leadership does have the nerve and self-belief to act decisively, the people of Scotland will rally to them, and do so with infectious enthusiasm.

I’m in broad agreement with everything you say and I don’t know why you thought otherwise.

I suspect that “snap” General Election last year taught the SNP an awful lot – not least the totally unscrupulous nature of our enemy and the massive funding it has at its disposal. It was the least effective campaign I have ever experienced from the SNP but it was fought honestly on a programme for government. Naive is the word however as our enemy fought on the constitutional issue which is really the only issue now..
I lost no time in complaining to the party and expressing my and many other’s disquiet – but I did not even consider leaving the SNP

Many many people in Scotland have a low income and have no time for politics because they think every political party is the same including SNP they do not think Scottish independence will bring an increase in their living standards they do not believe the inequality in our society will change so they do not have the enthusiasm that people on this website have for independence.
Why would they ? If it’s not going to change their day to day lives, same wages same house same everything except Scotland is independent.
Every political party in Westminster has for all time made promises about what they plan to do if elected SNP do not do enough promising.
SNP have to make a statement giving people hope not necessarily for next year or the year after but hope that once Scotland is independent the biggest chunk of the people here will have a big increase in their standard of living.
A big increase to most of them would be another one hundred pounds a month ,there are people in Scotland who spend that on a meal or a night out.
The SNP should say they will double state pensions too.
The SNP should make all social security benefit payments means tested so that all those who are means tested continue as now but all those people with huge amounts of wealth do not get benefits it is a disgrace that child benefit is paid to millionaires and attendance allowance and disability living allowance all that money should be going to people who need it.
This is all it takes.
Promise to increase the pay of the poorest paid workers ( they make up the majority of people in Scotland ) and promise to increase pensions.
Yes you will hear the well paid people squeal it’s not fair just as you did when the SNP introduced tax changes this year, people earning fifty thousand pounds a year sixty thousand pounds a year ended up paying two or three pounds a week more tax and he’ll did they squeal and moan and make a fuss about it.
SNP have to be bold and promise to increase minimum pay by a substantial amount and double pensions then attention will be maximised.
Scotland is a small but very wealthy country and can easily afford to do this,easily.
It must introduce its own currency too we don’t need to use the pound sterling and be at the mercy of westminsters interest rate setting we can do all this ourselves the way we used to.

One more point, a third of the NO vote are English people living in Scotland who will always support their country, their country is England or Britain or U.K. They believe all three mean the same thing.
I don’t blame them for supporting their country that’s what people do.
There are over 800,000 of them.
So the NO side start with a huge number on their side without canvassing without contacting them and nearly all of those English people are in Scotland to work so they have an interest in keeping things as they are other than British nationalism ,they fear Scottish independence will stunt their progression they fear it will make their living in Scotland insecure.
No amount of canvassing will change that view.
You will find the odd occasion when some may join SNP or support Scottish independence but they are few in number.
You never see a March AGAINST Scottish independence because it would be so noticeable that a third are English people a third wealthy people ,and a third that are Scottish labour voters ,those Scottish labour voters know this and would be just as reluctant to show up as the other two groups.
They are the hidden majority stopping Scottish independence.
I have no problem with wealthy Scottish people voting against Scottish independence
I have no problem with Scottish people who vote labour voting against Scottish independence.
I object to English people having a vote on Scottish independence I don’t care where they live it is just plain wrong for England to have a vote on England controlling Scotland.
We seen England in Westminster voting to control Scotland and Scotland xcluding scottish MP,s from the discussion.
It’s time Scotland excluded England from the Scottish independence discussion and that includes all England including the part that has colonised Scotland.

Thanks to everyone who kindly welcomed me back ….. although I’ve never actually been away due to reading all of Stu’s articles, Nana’s links and comments.

Lately I’ve been travelling through the Outer Hebrides attempting to spread the word from Barra to Eriskay, South Uist, Benbecula, North Uist, Berneray, Harris and Lewis. At first I felt totally overwhelmed and despondent with the number of newcomers that I came across on the isles with the percentages which seemed to me (and others with me) to be 60% newcomers to 40% indigenous Scots. However it soon became clear that many of them have moved here due to their disgust with the Westminster system. Some in fact informed me that they were going to vote for Independence before I made it clear that I was a ”fervent” supporter, lol. Only time will tell how their vote will go.

Meanwhile we should continue to reach out to all prior No voters / sitting on the fence types and believe, clearly see, that the Westminster politicians are currently doing the heavy lifting for us. Next time around, and it won’t be too long now, it will be a resounding YES for Independence.

Always been for Scottish independence all my adult life – a few decades. Seemed obvious to me from an early age that any self respecting country and its people should take its own decisions. I was then appalled to find out that many people I thought were Scots thought of themselves as British. They would rather be second class English than Scottish.

Not a natural political party member. Joined SNP and let it lapse on a few occasions due to dissatisfaction re not doing enough for independence. I may be wrong and take the risk of being criticised but I will wait a little longer to see if the Stunt is a one off or part of a plan from the SNP. If convinced there is a plan I will rejoin. Sorry Dave McEwan Hill you may well be right that it was not the right decision to lapse membership. We all make mistakes. If the SNP does not start getting tough now when devolution is being attacked never mind independence when will they.

I have always voted SNP except for a period living in England. Hate the Union but not the English.

A couple of SNP MP’s (Carol Monaghan and Stewart McDonald) spoke at the flash rally in Glasgow a couple of hours after you posted that, and they were clearly signalling a forthcoming change in tactics in the HoC. To something far more robust.

The very positive public response that the MPs received to their stand has evidently given them a big morale boost. (As some of us have been repeatedly saying such actions would.)

To re-join or not is of course your own decision, and being a member isn’t the only possible way forward, but be mightily encouraged anyway.

“Not as important as Manchester?” Where does it say that ? He asked why it was that in his opinion Scotland wanted more attention than Manchester.
Why make straw men arguments by misrepresenting what is said ?

It’s like David Mundell getting criticised for saying Scotland was a part of the UK – Are you a part of your family or a partner of your family ?

And for the real idiots who need it spelling out, I don’t support Mundell, and I don’t support deliberately misinterpreting what people say just to get attention either.

It’s time to ditch party politics and get direct democracy, like in Switzerland

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