power window lubrication, brake check light relay cleaning

One of my rear windows was stuck in the up position. The other day, I had a poke around inside the door, and the window worked fine once I had taken the weather seals off it. So all the motors etc are working fine, there was just too much resistance for it to overcome. Put it all back together and the window is working fine for now, but I'd like to lubricate it to free it up a bit more.

What bits should I be cleaning/lubricating? What grease/oil should I use?

I was thinking that there is probably a bit of friction as the edges of the window move up the door frame, but that's not something you could lubricate, or is it?

My other question is that the BRAKE CHECK LIGHT often stays on. I read a (Pedro? rkj? Bob?) post on the old forum about cleaning the brake light relay to reduce the resistance that is causing a false reading. Where is said relay? How should I clean it?

One of my rear windows was stuck in the up position. The other day, I had a poke around inside the door, and the window worked fine once I had taken the weather seals off it. So all the motors etc are working fine, there was just too much resistance for it to overcome. Put it all back together and the window is working fine for now, but I'd like to lubricate it to free it up a bit more.

What bits should I be cleaning/lubricating? What grease/oil should I use?

I was thinking that there is probably a bit of friction as the edges of the window move up the door frame, but that's not something you could lubricate, or is it?

My other question is that the BRAKE CHECK LIGHT often stays on. I read a (Pedro? rkj? Bob?) post on the old forum about cleaning the brake light relay to reduce the resistance that is causing a false reading. Where is said relay? How should I clean it?

Many thanks,
Simon

Happy Festivus Simon

There isn't much you can do to the window runners short of replacing them. The problem was really with the window motor itself. From the lack of use, the contacts in the motor become corroded and then the window fails to operate. At one point all my windows except the driver door had stopped functioning.
After swapping around the good switch to no avail, I tried holding the windo from inside and out while a separate hand pressed the button. Putting downward pressure on the window was enough to get the motor contacts to a clean patch and then they started working again. I ran them all up and down about a dozen times and the problem hasn't returned. I try to exercise all the windows once every month or so to keep them limber

The rear light relay is in the trunk(boot) up near the power antenna. You can carefully pry the top off of it to expose the contacts. Use a narrow strip of fine sand paper or one of those finger nail file boards to touch up the solder like contacts which will all look burned. If they are too bad, you may have to add a bit of solder to rebuild them.

Quoterkj
Peter sez
There isn't much you can do to the window runners short of replacing them.

I think the runners you're talking about are the round tracks with the spiral cable inside, yes?

No, I'm speaking about the rubber guides that the windows slide up and down in. When the rubber gets old and after years of wear, the glass starts to bind.

The other things are the regulator cables. I suppose they too could become corroded and cause problems.

Ah yes, the dreaded window channels, I just rebuilt the ones on the fiat, jeepers creepers what a job to get right finally! You haven't lived untill you've built a Fiat

The regulator cables are something that gets loaded with dirt and they do become stiff as the devil. I have an assy out and will try to figure out a method that would r&r them. Solvent brushing and air pressure is probably going to be the only way of cleaning them though then you can re-lube.

Thanks for your help guys. The windows are now running smooth as silk and the brake check light isn't stuck on any more.

For the windows, the guy at the parts shop recommended a CRC Dry Glide spray for the channels. This also helped. rkj, if you could post a Window Regulator Cable Cleaning guide sometime, I'll rip the door apart one more time and attack the cables. It's annoying how the power window switch doesn't fit through the trim panel once the connector is plugged in, eh? Getting the switch connected with the trim in place is a tricky job!

Pedro, actually the innards of the brake Kontrollier thingo were in very good condition. Just curious, what does that relay thingo do? The stop light on the rear window doesn't run through it. Stange! Anyway, all the solder looked good, so I dared not mess with it. Just sprayed some contact cleaner on the connector for it, and the contacts for the bulb, luckily that was enough to make the Check Light go out...

Quotenomis3613
Thanks for your help guys. The windows are now running smooth as silk and the brake check light isn't stuck on any more.

For the windows, the guy at the parts shop recommended a CRC Dry Glide spray for the channels. This also helped. rkj, if you could post a Window Regulator Cable Cleaning guide sometime, I'll rip the door apart one more time and attack the cables. It's annoying how the power window switch doesn't fit through the trim panel once the connector is plugged in, eh? Getting the switch connected with the trim in place is a tricky job!

Pedro, actually the innards of the brake Kontrollier thingo were in very good condition. Just curious, what does that relay thingo do? The stop light on the rear window doesn't run through it. Stange! Anyway, all the solder looked good, so I dared not mess with it. Just sprayed some contact cleaner on the connector for it, and the contacts for the bulb, luckily that was enough to make the Check Light go out...

Thanks for your great help as usual,

Simon

The rear light check relay is used to sense if any of the bulbs are burned out and make one of the lights on the overheard active check panel light up.

Quotenomis3613
Thanks for your help guys. The windows are now running smooth as silk and the brake check light isn't stuck on any more.

For the windows, the guy at the parts shop recommended a CRC Dry Glide spray for the channels. This also helped. rkj, if you could post a Window Regulator Cable Cleaning guide sometime, I'll rip the door apart one more time and attack the cables. It's annoying how the power window switch doesn't fit through the trim panel once the connector is plugged in, eh? Getting the switch connected with the trim in place is a tricky job!

Pedro, actually the innards of the brake Kontrollier thingo were in very good condition. Just curious, what does that relay thingo do? The stop light on the rear window doesn't run through it. Stange! Anyway, all the solder looked good, so I dared not mess with it. Just sprayed some contact cleaner on the connector for it, and the contacts for the bulb, luckily that was enough to make the Check Light go out...

Thanks for your great help as usual,

Simon

The rear light check relay is used to sense if any of the bulbs are burned out and make one of the lights on the overheard active check panel light up.

This is quite an interesting thread. Does the brake light relay cleaning procedure reduce the blinking yellow "Check" indicator and the overhead display's Brake Lights indicator? I was thinking that it was Beemie's special way of telling me that it had rained recently.

Quotenomis3613
Thanks for your help guys. The windows are now running smooth as silk and the brake check light isn't stuck on any more.

For the windows, the guy at the parts shop recommended a CRC Dry Glide spray for the channels. This also helped. rkj, if you could post a Window Regulator Cable Cleaning guide sometime, I'll rip the door apart one more time and attack the cables. It's annoying how the power window switch doesn't fit through the trim panel once the connector is plugged in, eh? Getting the switch connected with the trim in place is a tricky job!

Pedro, actually the innards of the brake Kontrollier thingo were in very good condition. Just curious, what does that relay thingo do? The stop light on the rear window doesn't run through it. Stange! Anyway, all the solder looked good, so I dared not mess with it. Just sprayed some contact cleaner on the connector for it, and the contacts for the bulb, luckily that was enough to make the Check Light go out...

Thanks for your great help as usual,

Simon

Yes, whatever you do to reduce the resistance in that system will stop the blinking check light and the paired one on the overhead check panel.
Cleaning the relay is not a guarantee of success. Our cars are getting lomg in the tooth and the wiring itself is becoming more resistant at the places where connections are made. Mostly it's due to corrosion. Sometimes, it's the brake light switch itself; they often fail

The rear light check relay is used to sense if any of the bulbs are burned out and make one of the lights on the overheard active check panel light up.

This is quite an interesting thread. Does the brake light relay cleaning procedure reduce the blinking yellow "Check" indicator and the overhead display's Brake Lights indicator? I was thinking that it was Beemie's special way of telling me that it had rained recently.

The risers (the mechanism that raises and lowers the window) are bent rigid metal tubes 1/2 inch in diameter that have sunroof type screw (spiral) cables in them that get turned by the motor; one direction up and the other way for down. There is a threaded dog that rides up and down on this cable and runs up and down via a open channel in the tube, full length. A fairly clever set-up but prone to looseness, wear, (the window jumps usually on the down stroke) and getting dirt trapped in the tube making the spiral cable and the lifting dog tight and worn out.

In my opinion, brush washing these riser assemblies with solvent and blowing them out with a good amount of compressed air repeatedly until they are clear and clean and then packed with white grease is the way to go.

Quoterkj
The risers (the mechanism that raises and lowers the window) are bent rigid metal tubes 1/2 inch in diameter that have sunroof type screw (spiral) cables in them that get turned by the motor; one direction up and the other way for down. There is a threaded dog that rides up and down on this cable and runs up and down via a open channel in the tube, full length. A fairly clever set-up but prone to looseness, wear, (the window jumps usually on the down stroke) and getting dirt trapped in the tube making the spiral cable and the lifting dog tight and worn out.

In my opinion, brush washing these riser assemblies with solvent and blowing them out with a good amount of compressed air repeatedly until they are clear and clean and then packed with white grease is the way to go.

These things are inside a door so they shouldn't get too crappy.

Rick

The cable system was replaced on the newer E30s(maybe 1987 or 88) with a fixed strut, scissor type system. It's less prone to becoming sloppy but in both systems, any sloppiness will allow the window to tilt slightly and bind in the rubber track guides it slides up and down in.

Keeping the raising/lowering mechanism clean and in good shape as you describe is essential. Providing drag free guides also helps a lot. With the older E30s, even dry lubing the guides may not be enough so replacement might be necessary.

As a side note, many times, the windows stick in an up or down position; not because of the above problems but because the window motors gum up from not being used. Most times it's just corrosion on the window switches or window motor brushes. In one or two cases I remember, the grease on the stator shaft of the window motor had actually solidified and stopped the motor from turning. A good cleaning restored the motor to perfect working order.

QuoteKellyThis is quite an interesting thread. Does the brake light relay cleaning procedure reduce the blinking yellow "Check" indicator and the overhead display's Brake Lights indicator? I was thinking that it was Beemie's special way of telling me that it had rained recently.

;-) Kelly

Yes, another advanced feature of the E30!

(if you wanna fix this, I reckon start with the contacts in the lights themselves cos that is the most likely place for moisture to get in IMHO)