Greetings fellow collectors. I found this thread via search for the Denver West Mint. I wanted to look up the company because I have just noticed a typo on the label of the GSA case that contains an 1881-S Morgan Dollar I recently bought from the Ebay seller who has been mentioned here (most of the graded coins he offers for sale appear to have been graded by Denver West Mint as was the coin I bought). I have to marvel that I've viewed the label on my Morgan Dollar's case several times, yet did not notice the typo (the graders intended to apply "PROOF LIKE" but the label reads "POOF LIKE") until I compared the coin to an 1878-S Morgan Dollar that is also in a GSA case! I was astonished that I missed this over and over again! I began to wonder what the company's policy might be on correcting the error and searched for the grading company which is how I arrived on this forum. Since the last coin I bought was from the seller mentioned here, it's prudent that I ask for more input concerning the dissatisfaction with the coins he sells because my experience with him is that he's been courteous and very much willing to communicate and answer any questions I've had and he seems to be "more than fair" with the prices for which he offers his coins, having giving me the 10% discount I requested on the coin I bought from him 2 days ago as compensation for the small crack I found at the corner of the case of the first coin I bought from him. I haven't done a lot of coin collection in recent years and have only begun to replace coins of mine that were sold off a dozen years ago and I find many of the "toner" coins the seller offers to be very attractive and my last purchase was of this type. I've got a few AT Kennedy Halves in my collection that I value (they were represented as "AT" by a different seller) and he will give me his opinion on the type of toning on various coins (Morgans and Peace Dollars) when I ask him (his user name is "libertyordeathcoins" and goes by the name of "Mike"). The seller mentioned here as misrepresenting his coins as "NT" to my knowledge has not made any claims on his Ebay listings how the coins become toned one way or the other. That's not to say that at some point he has, this is just my own experience. I'm open to new information,, and seeing as I am a customer it's important to me to be informed. I find myself scratching my head as it were, since I checked the seller store feedback and he's got 173 "Positive" feedbacks listed for the past 12 months. 0 "Negative" listed, and 0 Neutal feedback listed for the same time period. More than that, the store's feedback is not only listed as "Positive", but is listed as "5 Star" feedback for the same period. I thought it important to check the feedback scores to see what his recent customers are saying. The thread I'm responding to is more than 2 years old. In any case, I wanted to share my experience (though it is limited) with the seller who had negative feedback here from more than one user and also say that I appreciate conscientious discussion.

Update: As of today the Ebay seller mentioned on this thread (jeff4scaglia) has 175 "Positive" feedback scores and also "5 Star" rating across the board for the past 12 months (I hadn't left feedback for my 2 coin purchases).

Daniel funny statement. Tell me and the rest of us what fraud coins you have bought from this guy, have any pictures, or at least? Proof.. All I see listed are graded coins on his site. Are we to believe that he has NGC and PCGS on the take, he's paying them off to get these fraud coins graded? Joy

Daniel wrote:Don't know who they're but the coins do look genuine. However, their toning is artificial and made to look like it's "bulls-eye" toning for better appeal. At least I am sure the Columbian Half is AT.

Hi, yes the coins are genuine ,but the toning is not as i have bought several Morgan dollars and silver eagles from this guy and cracked the slabs to send in to NGC and got them back in a body bag stateing they were chemically toned=stay away

I find this post misleading, I purchased several raw Morgans from this jeff4 guy and got all back from NGC as MS, one even came back as a star. Would anyone care to see pictures? What gives with the hate thing, and Daniel? With all these reports you say that you pass on to ebay why have they not done anything, why does this jeff4 guy have a 100% feedback rating, why is he rated as one of ebays TOP RATED SELLERS? Might it be that you don't know as much as you say you do, post without any proof past your claims with no proof, just miss-directed hate? Joy-

I looked through all of this guys toned coins and would agree with Daniel. Some of these coins, including the Morgans, are artificially toned. I do not think they all are AT based on the proper transition of colors on some.The overly purple splotch in one area and no edge transition is usually a dead give away. But, if he cannot tell the difference and sells them as toned, then he should not be selling them.

Circular toning spots resulting from the beading of the toning liquid that was used.

Colors that blend together out of sequence. With naturally toned coins, the progression is yellow then magenta (pinkish red) then cyan (blue-green).

Toning that appears only on the tops of the lettering and devices and not in the coin's recesses.

The toning floats on the surface of the coin rather than having depth and being bonded to the metal.

The toning occurs over hairlines or other marks.

The toning exhibits bright "crayon" colors.

The toning has a yellow-brown, smoky appearance, indicating it was caused by cigarette or cigar smoke.

silverforall wrote:What gives with the hate thing, and Daniel? With all these reports you say that you pass on to ebay why have they not done anything, why does this jeff4 guy have a 100% feedback rating, why is he rated as one of ebays TOP RATED SELLERS? Might it be that you don't know as much as you say you do, post without any proof past your claims with no proof, just miss-directed hate? Joy-

It's not a "hate" thing, grow up. Someone is trying to sell fraudulent merchandise either intentionally, or without knowledge of what they are selling. Our intent is to educate the unwary from being ripped off.

Regarding eBay... they seldom take action on TOP SELLERS because that is who makes their money. They simply claim they don't know the difference. (PS. 175 positive is hardly a TOP SELLER.)

Real tone:

Note the transitions

Real.JPG (37.74 KiB) Viewed 1342 times

Fake tone:

Tops of some letters are silver, areas where color has rubbed off (no transition), color is unnatural

First I want to add that 100% positive feedback is easy to obtain, most of it is pleasing ebay with their criteria for a Top Rated Seller and the rest is kissing every single buyer's butt if they complain in the least about the coin you sold them. It's all psychology when it comes to buyers. You can tell buyers that you didn't know and how sorry you were and that you will be more careful next time, blah, blah, blah and so on and so forth; and do this to make sure they leave you enough stars and raving feedback for your wonderful personality.

A purchase is more about how satisfied the customer is than how great the product is; I grew up in retail and you can sell plastic turds to happy customers if you just please the customer. These customers will come back to you because they think you're genuine. So the feedback means little to me in this case and there's two more reasons why.

1. The sellers BUYING feedback is private so there's something to hide here, especially when it's obvious some of the sellers are coin sellers. So we can't see if the coins were possibly bought of ebay as original and then artificially toned by this seller and being resold. Usually sellers like this just have two ebay accounts, one for buying and one for selling so they don't get caught.

2. The seller might have some NGC and PCGS toned coins for sell but they're still selling raw AT coins and coins in their own private DWM holders which is a self slabbing method of making the coins appear to be worth more than they are.

Honestly, if you think this seller's raw coins or DWM slabbed coins are naturally toned then you need to be schooled on natural toning. The images are extremely poor to hide details of the toning, but that will never fool an experienced eye. I can tell by the patterns of toning that they're not naturally toned. Mhonzell made factual and accurate observations of these coins and I can see and agree with what he listed. It's actually a science so it's either one way or no way.

Furthermore the seller has a fake Trade Dollar up for sell, don't care what the auction states, it can still be purchased for $999 and that violates ebay policy. Also DWM is not a legitimate grading service, this slabbing services has no website, return policies, and the only mentions of this company online is a couple of forums warning against them. lol. The description in this auction is extremely goofy to say the least. I reported that auction, and you're not allowed to mention DWM or any other fake grading service in an ebay auction.

One other thing to note, the seller can take better images of coins, and I see he has done this on the legitimate grading company images, but "manipulated" the artificially toned auction images. So silverforall you must be this seller yourself, a family member or friend if you still insist on defending this seller, either that or you really don't know any better and have a lot to learn about coins and toning.

P.S. I never claimed to buy any coins from this seller, so reread my posts. I would never buy from this seller, don't need to to prove he's a fraud.