Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 1, 2013, 6:34 a.m. EST by therising
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Our economy sucks right now, especially if you're a young person entering the job market. Young people face increasingly limited options and more and more of them are suffering in our "new" economy. The new normal of stagnant wages, widening income disparity, unemployment and underemployment paired with cultural isolation is flat out demoralizing.

This frustration on the part of the millennial generation will likely be one of the strongest forces for change. But what kind of change will that frustration bring?

There's no doubt that the raw energy from frustrated young people will result in a reaction. I just hope it will be a generally positive, deliberate and intelligent reaction rather than knee jerk, reactive one born out of fear. We certainly don't want good people's fear used to steer them into something that works against their own interests and the interest of the community. Too often we take away the wrong lessons from hardship. Out of desperation, we leap in the wrong direction when someone who is deluded (or malicious) "names our pain" inaccurately.

We've seen way too many people hate or fear others (or institutions or systems) - - out of frustration or fear. The Germans had their pain named in the 1930's during economic hardship and they fell into a trap of hating people with whom they shared more commonalities than differences. It is upsetting to see people's fear and hardship exploited. The tea party comes to mind. Probably good people drawing all the wrong conclusions because, in part, of their own weakness and foolishness but also because corporate lackies like Dick Armey exploited their fear and named their pain.

We too often allow people to pick our poison for us: "It's the jews. It's Obama. It's socialism. It's George Bush. It's (fill in the blank)." Too often, when we in the 99% suffer, we lash out at each other instead of the forces that are truly causing our pain. And, sometimes, even when we realize the correct source of the trouble, we lash out in anger or with violence instead of with productive intelligence that will bring the new day we truly desire. I want to see us move towards community, not descend into fear, confusion, infighting and hatred. It is also worth noting that sometimes the source of the trouble lies partially with us and we ignore that and reflexively blame others. We must take responsibility for our own contribution to the problems we suffer from. Once we realize we play a role in them, we will discover we also have the power to play a role in the solution ( http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-view-why-gun-control-peace-treaties-campaign-f/ ).

How can we take the righteous anger and raw energy that comes from hardship and channel it into productive action that will bring us as individuals the happiness we seek instead of taking us further into hardship and pain? How do we channel that raw energy so it can help us see our commonality and build the dynamic community we hunger for. How do we take away the right lessons from this rather than descend into chaos?

In my view, nonviolence is essential and far more powerful than a violent reaction. And I also truly believe that, if we the 99% can realize that we have more in common than we have separating us, we can begin to make decisions from a position of unified strength instead of demands from a position of divided weakness.

Here's to humanity walking that fine line and taking away the right lessons from our hardship and struggle. I don't want us to be fooled into lashing out violently at the 1% which would only further seal our fate. I don't want us to be fooled into lashing out at each other either. How can we, the millions who see that real transformation is possible help guide and lift those who are suffering in order to alchemize all that pain, anger and raw energy in something that benefits individuals and helps build the dynamic community we've wanted for so long?

And to all of us who are not in the MILLENNIAL generation, how will we help steer those younger than us in the right direction? Will we show them not just the ills of the society but solutions as well? And will we also offer them a positive vision for what COULD be if certain actions are taken? After all, if we want to inspire change, we're going to have to inspire PEOPLE, especially young people. I think it's important that we ask ourselves, "Have I only focused on what's wrong with society and failed to give equal attention to solutions and a positive vision of the dynamic community we could build if we engage in positive revolution? Have I only focused on action out in the world and failed to give equal time to the revolution of the mind that is also necessary? ( see post GOOD NEWS http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-view-why-gun-control-peace-treaties-campaign-f/ ).

It's time for humanity to rise out of the darkness of division and fear. It's time to alchemize that raw energy into positive forceful action that brings real transformation. We can build a new community. It's time for us to step the fuck up. If we drift, those with selfish and malicious intent will decide for us.

We need to remember the power of nonviolent tension. This is one of the most important tools available to us. Martin Luther King, Jr. explained the use of active non-violent resistance as follows in his “Letter from Birmingham Jail”:
"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. . . The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation.”

We need to make that nonviolent tension our friend.

PS - Remember - If we somehow transformed our economy to make good jobs available to the millennial generation, that would not solve the problem at hand. There are other forces, of course, attempting to steer the millennial generation towards a new consumerism (same old same old wrapped in different packaging). . . http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Marketing-shift-seen-for-Millennial-generation-2334257.php . That article says millennials are, in general, less rebellious against authority. So how will authority dictate their actions? Will a whole new generation fall into the trap of consumerism and materialism as corporations would like? Who will shape the minds of the next generation of Americans?

225 Comments

Baby-boomers and Gen-X had many new developments in the tech world at their disposal. I don't see any new developments that are significant for those that are younger. Advances in the digital world are not consistent though digi-tech is marketed that way.

With the price of education going up and the quality going down it must leave many younger people feeling disillusioned. The last thing they need is advice from old-timers like me.

and don't forget it's all being CONSOLIDATED into one giant blob of whatever won't strain the margins and will keep the masses entertained. There's no such thing as innovation - it costs too much money, gets bought up and out if it's any good and goes in the pile of blob with the rest of it, or gets stolen and patented or pirated and goes into litigation for the next 30 years. As one example though though Facebook was never that clever,it was neato and a helpful way of connecting - but now they've got their hooks in it don't they ... stripping it down, forcing a profit, sinking their hooks into the "consumer" cause that's all we are to these companies. Violating our trust. Gets worse when you consider things like genetic patents on cancer genes before they begin pimping them out to researchers for a cost. All of this is stifling innovation (unless it's more creative ways to screw the public.) That's what they care about now- forget products that last, forget ingenuity - whatever meets the bare minimum for the highest price. This is the economy we have now.

For the younger, the new development is the vastly higher degree of connectedness. It is not technology alone that can and will make the difference. It is also the usage that it was put to. For example, the internet had existed for a few years before it suddenly boosted the productivity of the people using it once enough information became available there. The same is true for social media such as Facebook and Twitter.

It is the social linkage that can trigger a phase change such as those which had occurred in the Arab Spring.

Sort of and not necessarily. Social linkage is why we may not want to torch and burn our entire system. Even the 1% are part of our system, too, but that should not stop us in any way to steer and control our system because we are doing it for the benefit of the 1%, too. Derivatives are similar to aneurysms in our financial blood vessels. There were far too many of them that were largely imaginary or not tied to the real world at all. There were layers on top of layers that intertwined and the art of valuation, though claiming to be a rocket science, is in essence voodoo magic because its inputs are largely subjective probabilities.

All kinds of platforms can support derivatives and day trading, not necessarily the iXxxxx. I would even defend derivatives and day trading as long as they serve valuable economic objectives such as stabilizing investments, apportioning risks to parties which can best shoulder them so as to catalyze economic undertakings, and providing liquidity. What I and the world had problem with is when these went far beyond reality. What the heck are hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of derivatives doing in a world whose GDP per year does not exceed 100 trillion dollars? Gambling with everyone's livelihoods, that is! WE DO NOT NEED THIS!!!

There can be problem with people having control of their own money, too. They may wantonly "print" money to satisfy all of their wants. If the control is vested in a democratic process as efficient (ugh!) as that in our Congress, it may not be nimble enough.

I still believe that an independent central bank controlling the money is still important for quick emergency response but there should be laws preventing it from overstepping its bounds into the political realm. I see that our U.S. federal reserve had intervened excessively long in time duration in our economy through its monetary/credit policies. The power for long-term interventions in our economy should NEVER be vested in a non-elected body. That is properly the realm of our democratically elected government.

The idea of the 1% has its problem because "top 1% income" does not define people. After the Great Recession, those belonging to the 1% prior to it might no longer belong to the 1% so they could be hurt badly in the run-down but they were simply replaced by new members of the 1%.

Decades ago, Harvard came up with the concept of homeostasis to describe bodily equilibria. Harvard had since amended that to homeodynamics. 1% is in the same changeable category and class as a concept is bankrupt in a dynamic society (let me remind you that Donald Trump had threatened to declare bankruptcy before).

Transferring the wealth from the working/middle class to 1% also occurred but it is not the bulk of the financial losses from your 401k's, IRA's, pensions, houses, etc. The 1% simply could not have transferred that much wealth that fast to their account balances. The financial losses mostly came from the near-collapse of confidence. The actual transfer of wealth occurred when the big shots got salaries, huge bonuses, and expense accounts often for doing very little and even crashing the companies and the global economy. That was not, is not, and must never be acceptable.

The 1%/99% terminology has its merits as the concept of classes also does but we should never lose track of the fact that they are abstract concepts that are dependent on the scale of the resolution at which we examine societies. Harvard had this change of perspective when the resolution changed due to better monitoring technologies. Apparently static equilibrium on macroscopic scales can actually be dynamic equilibrium on microscopic scales, even chaos or no equilibrium at all.

That is correct. Not everyone of the 1% is culpable. Nor is everyone of the 99% innocent. However, by and large, the misdeeds mostly came from the 1% as a group simply because they had the motive and the means to crash the economic system. It is much much harder to make the 99% crash the economic system because coordinated actions amongst them are rare (some still do not get how they have been ripped off).

Yes, I agree. Most millionaires do not even know how to wield the powers that could have effected the crash but surely there are some rather greedy ones amongst them that do and knowingly crashed the world economy, in pursuit of personal gains.

I am happy that you took the non-violent approach to the challenges we have. But you missed one important point that is required to be successful in a non-violent action: PATIENCE. A lot of it. It will take time, and quite a few election cycles. Everyone should watch "Eye On The Prize" to learn about what is required of oneself to reach a goal. And be ready to take some pain along the way. There is only one goal (the "prize" in this case) that should be focused on here and nothing else: money out of politics! Reach that and we win back control of governement, everything else follows that, not before. Otherwise, division will continue and nothing will change.
A comment on consumerism and materialism: we need to always have demand for something or there will be no jobs for any generation. And frustration? Everyone should deal with a little frustration, it toughens one up. Life is not supposed to be easy, so people should quit whining about it. Do something about it instead. I have never seen the complainer get anywhere, only the ones that get up and get out there.

Yes, indeed. We slipped into the cesspool of injustice because the moneyed interests grabbled our governments.

As long as the financial turmoils were confined to the private sector, we did not have systemic disaster (e.g., many hedge funds had died in the Great Recession but did the taxpayers cry?). In our complacency, we let the blind-trust folks forcefully breach the sheath of sanity and create the failed's that morphed into the too-big-to-fail's.

The ART 5 movement has a solid strategy called preparatory amendment. In order to see ART 5 done constitutionally preparation must be made. The first amendment sees that free speech is unabridged.

I saw one post where a conservative against ART 5 was challenged to find a parent that would not support a society which always allowed speech that could protect their child's life. They totally failed to even try .

This is what happens when people cannot get the truth, they have no idea of how serious the situation is or how it got that way so people with every reason to agree, cannot even be accountable to their position let alone unify.

"The Compact for America guarantees that the process will exclude the input of the other states and restricts the delegates to the Balanced Budget Amendment discussion under threat of pre-written instructions to state Attorney Generals."

ARTICLE V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

If you are not afraid of using ART 5 with proper preparation, then you can take constitutional action to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. Agreement upon the need of human society for communication which enables their unity and support for the prime principles of the republic is the first step.

The speech must be shared and UNDERSTOOD in order to provide protection.

Ummmmm, recall the dumbing down exposed by the Reese commission?

This society has already allowed that. Been there done that. Did you see the blocking of utube video responding to the gulf oil spill with solution. The prime contributor of strategy for ART 5 Christopher Brown posting here last year, directed me to a site where this type censorship stopped citizens from protecting children's futures by protecting the environment.

Actually, this isn't a bad idea! With social media out there and especially YouTube, we could get the message out there and get millions of people involved! The government needs to change and we need to make them change by using our collective voice.

But we'd all have to form big groups around the country, film it, and then put it together as one big video and post it on YouTube.

When their are characters to empathize with, might help some to get message.

I have a feeling there exists a huge knowledge gap for much of the populace. Serial drama could be interesting. If Honey BooBoo is interesting, why wouldnt a reality show, focusing on various occupy sites and action, beliefs, characters, and struggles, like exposing this, and such like the systemic repression of occupy sites. Tell our side.
http://vimeo.com/23258726

It is quite a contrast that trillions of dollars were created to rescue the financial monsters but our government could not allow the 60 billion dollars to fund disaster relief from Sandy's effects. I am sure that a number of the (previously) comfortable victims of Sandy have started to realize how rigged our government truly is.

Comfortable suburbanites may not truly understand how precarious their position is. As Sandy's aftermath showed, many suburbanites turned out to be just one flood away from financial ruin.

Hopefully, some suburbanites will start to understand how some families afflicted by serious illnesses feel. Some were just one serious illness from financial ruin, nullifying an entire life's hard work and savings. There is a reason for our country's unity, to do what we cannot do individually. Recovery from droughts and floods certainly fall into that category.

Agreed, Making the comfortable non supporters of Occupy realize that, an illness, a flood, a job loss, etc can hurt them (or fam, & freinds) profoundly, should be a high priority.

In addition we ought to make an effort to inform that same critical demographic that their children will have overwhelming challenges because of the economic inequity we've allowed to crush the middle class.

If successful, that effort will yield new important supporters in this good fight.

Any country that had big economic inequity never fared well for long. Actually, more comfortable non-supporters of Occupy probably have their sense of unease already but perhaps are too busy to put their fingers on the crux of the matter.

When their children have no prospect, they will learn it the hard way -- perhaps more Nancy Lanza's to be, Sandy Hook, Newtown, Aurora, Sandy, etc.

I remember lots of posts here in December of 2011 about the black bloc basically rioting destructively. In Oakland busses were seen unloading with people that rioted destructively causing massive riot response.

That was all it took. Cops then used "cognitive distortions" to justify their actions, AND municipal officials backed them. That's all needed to smear the movement WHILE it's not overtly defending the constitution which guarantees the rights used.

Here is a tribute to one who had stopped the madness of the 25 minutes to total annihilation and let loose the seeds of freedom: a liberating tribute.

To the millennial generation: the lightning bolts of liberation are in the grasp of your hands. Look up to the goddess of liberty and the broken chain beneath. Do you see our common destiny in this moment of opportunity before the gathering forces tape our mouths shut? Can you feel the seeds of freedom stuffed into your pockets? Can you promise to keep the torch lit for all of humanity?

As always, the future, whether heaven or hell, belongs to the youth. At one time, we were the youth and had lived through wanton slaughters so we knew some truths that could help the youth such as flesh and blood were no match for guns and bullets at Kent State University and will continue to be no match.

Of course not but that is the very least that we can leave for our successors within the character-count-limit of a tweet: Think and prepare: flesh and blood were no match for guns and bullets at Kent State University and will continue to be no match.

Peaceful movements that had succeeded did not succeed because of their peaceful nature alone. There were always many other factors that came into play. Many many peaceful movements ended up achieving nothing. That is why sensing den Zeitgeist is important. As you had already noted, the key was the "tension." In physical terms, the key for success is a metastable state with high population count amenable to coherent transitioning.

In our frontier days, we in the U.S. had exactly the same type of solution, namely bankruptcy, to resolve insurmountable financial problems. We still have laws derived from our frontier tradition but they had been vastly weakened and tweaked to suit the needs of the business elites. Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson had even propped up the economy for more than 1.5 years until the new bankruptcy law (federal student loans would no longer be discharged) could kick in and the adjustable rate mortgages outstanding had gone beyond the teaser-rate periods before Lehman Brothers was allowed to collapse. Before that however in January of 2008, Bear-Stearns was saved by merging with J.P. Morgan Chase with Federal Reserve's credit backstopping.

Iceland was hit so hard that its people really woke up and took control. In the U.S., we HAD a change of administration BUT our President was not financially confident or savvy enough so he put his trust in "poacher-turned-park-ranger" Timothy Geithner and "brain-think-whizzed-past-mouth-gate" Lawrence Summers. The U.S. populace was content enough through various social safety-net programs such as unemployment compensation and nutritional supplementation programs that we embarked on years of "recovery," also known as "waiting-it-out-so-people-forget" or "diffusing-the-blows-and-sock-it-to-the-idiots." Financial criminals were not prosecuted even after the systemic risks had subsided. We had the opportunity to solve the problem but we squandered it. Instead, we now have even bigger banks than before so they may eventually become too big to save even with central bank intervention.

I think people just don't realize what's possible. I honestly think we've done a good job collectively describing the problems but kind of a lousy job gathering support that could be had. If we described specific solutions and a vision of where successful implementation of them would lead, support would "rise like the sun through the morning clouds."

Maybe we should have a more focused serialized push for issues. Applying maximal pressure to not more than two or three issues at a time can yield results quickly. If not, we can quickly move on to the next two or three issues. At least we will learn what can work and what cannot. In all cases of resistance, the key to breaking through is the maximal pressure exceeding it and highly focused pressure can achieve what long-term moderate pressure cannot achieve.

from what I can tell the millennial aren't much different from baby boomer parents with whom they share matching ugg boots and values on competition and wealth gaps. They're both entitled types - not to mention millennial have no idea how easy things were for baby boomers because baby boomers would make you think they had it hard... bwwhhhaa haa haa haa... yeah no degree required, fat pensions, good pay affordable housing, plenty of retirement - free ride and they are still robbing the next generations blind because they are a greedy moronic selfish hypocritical generation. Will they retire at 67 like us (nope) will they have ssi and medicare (yep) - will we ? - nooo!!! they want to privatize it for us. Millennial are still living in their childhood bedroom while mom is retired and trying to be their best friend because they finally got bored renovating their kitchens (having gaggles of kids) and their pasta machines and gadgets... it's only when they die and millennial are truly on their own that they might bother to take a stand.

Gen-ex'ers rent from baby boomers since housing is still so out of reach (until the millennial brat kid takes over the apartment) how's it feel to get evicted by a spoiled ugg boot wearing 18 year old brat?

Well if you think the Baby Boomer generation is "entitled types" not having to work for what they have - Here's what I have to say to you.

You couldn't wipe the sweat off the balls of a Baby Boomer because you can't even begin to realize just how much the Baby Boomer generation gave this country when it comes to not only "industrial development" but electronic development.

What have you done in your miniscual life that has contributed to todays society other then whine about what others have that you don't have because you don't have the skills or knowledge to go out and get it.

"can't wipe the sweat off your balls" ....wow - You may be right that pedestal you put yourselves on is pretty high but I don't give a shit about what other people have - I give a shit about the state of the world and what is lacking in it - Thanks for the pompous self-righteous demonstration saved me from a lot of typing. Technology is ruining the world btw - but I know boomers love their gadgets and toys. Never stopped to think others might not enjoy it quite like you do, but then you don't put a lot of thought the fact that others are different than you? There is a whole world out there that reaches further than your finger and your i-phone and your boomer brand of lifestyle.

Also - a question - have you always been so quick to turn on the movement? or are you not part of it (I think the majority of anti-occupiers are comprised of Boomers and Millennial) so I wouldn't be surprised.

Well if you don't like what we did then turn in your cell phone, computer, and all the electronic devices you own. In addition to that if you have a new vehicle get rid of it and get one from the 50's without AC that only gets 11 mpg.

Stop your whining about the Baby Boomers - you can't hold a candle to any one of them when it comes to what they have encountered during their lifetime - You have it on "easy street" compared to most of them.

I don't know about all that, but the article at this link shows some people who got off their ass and did some pretty cool stuff! Gives us some real hope: http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-fuckin-awesome/ (read the short reticle 1st and then check out the short video at top of article).

The U.S. dollar is the world's reserve currency so the U.S. federal reserve and department of treasury can collaborate to create as much credit and money as the confidence of the world can bear subject to the promissory note called the debt ceiling issued by the U.S. Congress.

What that means is we can run trillion dollar deficits year after year to ameliorate political constituents' hardship through "anti-depressant" programs such as extended-extended-extended unemployment compensation and what were known as food stamps or stimulus programs.

The fact is, when the people rule, the people rule. The people of the U.S. can increase their participation in direct action and achieve the same level of pressure and results as those that are achieved in Iceland.

The Icelanders quickly forced out their prime minister and their government because they have a parliamentary form of government. The U.S. does not have that so even with the popular will, the wholesale cleansing of the political establishment can only occur roughly once every two years.

The U.S. system is not totally without its merits because for such a powerful country, extremely fast zigzagging of its government can cause global whiplashes. We gain in stability at the cost of often having our divided government doing nearly nothing. Sufficiently long durations of time between elections can often make our people forget why they were put into their predicaments. We may have Macondo people who inadvertently maintain the status quo of doing next to nothing. We do a lot of self reflection, trying to make some meaning out of the intricate patterns formed by the lint inside of our common navel.

The civil rights movement had its martyrs, enemies, betrayals, and transcendence that kept it alive. Unfortunately, it may very well be true that a velvety revolution may be impossible because there always seems to be martyrs in any revolution of consequence.

You said below:"When the behind-the-scene "arm twisting" works on the board of directors, we may see victories. We need to put ourselves mentally in the position of the board directors to appreciate how to "twist their arms" to maximize their "pain" so they comply. I hope that you are right about not needing martyrs."

I agree. King explained the use of active non-violent resistance as follows in his “Letter from Birmingham Jail”:

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. . . The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation.”

Do not be afraid of the Devil. For the Devil having a head also has a neck with carotid arteries. CEOs who come at you with their horns were known to drop dead when they experienced a blood clot in their carotid arteries at the board.

I'm not convinced that we need martyrs. I think we may be in a new paradigm here where there's no center to strike, just an idea that won't go away that translates into relentless direct action. We're going to win this.

When the behind-the-scene "arm twisting" works on the board of directors, we may see victories. We need to put ourselves mentally in the position of the board directors to appreciate how to "twist their arms" to maximize their "pain" so they comply. I hope that you are right about not needing martyrs.

Well elf, that might be some of 'em but many also helped Occupy become what it is. I think it's a mixed bag, just as some gen X'ers rose to the occasion and some are just channel surfing ironically and bitching about their raw deal, just as some boomers sold out in their older years and others stayed true to their 60's ideals. Every generation has its heros and slackers, its materialists and rebels. I think what matters is that we unify and fight this good fight together by engaging in nonviolent action, occupying spaces, raising awareness and growing the movement.

Once we realize we have more in common than we have separating us, we'll be able to make decisions from a position of unified strength rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

I'm not discounting your criticisms. I have some of the same gut reactions you do. But then I catch myself and realize the gravity of the present situation.. Just suggesting that practically speaking, we have to get busy. The 1% are busy as hell as you know and the clock is ticking. We don't have the luxury of being divided.

Unifying the movement is dissolving its roots and watering it down...the point is getting lost because of them... divide and solidify. This is about class and it's about generation the longer those facts are denied the more you'll keep hearing about every other boring cause they feel like stirring in to the mix; And what they're mixing in is the fact that they're doing just ducky and fine in this economy and their lame 60's groove shit (which doesn't make the movement seem different or unique in its cause, which it is; but then they were all over the place back then too.) And what it now lacks and needs in the worst way (anger and outrage) is missing as Millennial are hyper-focused on student loans and political correctness (they think whatever their parents told them to and the corporate media reinforces) And their parents are on board with whatever gets rid of that loan too you betcha. But they can't even eloquently explain why the colleges (and banks) shouldn't make a racket nor do i actually think they understand any of it. When you get into the nitty gritty with these people and try to discuss the real juice, they get bored in a matter of approximately 2.4 seconds. Look at the posts on here - really? Off topic off topic - pc nation, battering rams full of self-righteous bullshit, and current event-osis. A step away from threads on celebrities. I don't feel better than you by the way, I feel frustrated, with every reason in the world to feel that way. I'm in a generation wedged between sucky and suckier (apply whichever order you'd like to boomer and millenial). And you both stole this movement and put your own artificial stamp of suck on it. Does that elaborate any better how I feel?

Man, you should get out in the woods and take a hike. Breathe some air. Forget about this for a day or a week or two and come back refreshed. Seems to me that ou're hyper focused on what's wrong and not realign your own role in it. We all make that mistake. All the time. But the truth is that once we realize we are part of the problem, we can be part of the solution.

I'm not really talking to you specifically here. Just sort of telling you what I've discovered resets me when I feel hopeless. Hope seems deluded when you're hopeless. But once you step out of it for a while, you realize tht hopelessness was itself the delusion.

Here's what I think the problem is at root and what the REAL solution is: GOOD NEWS: a completely different solution (revolution of the mind) http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-view-why-gun-control-peace-treaties-campaign-f/

I think that it ultimately boils down to who controls and manipulates the power and the money and the credit and the creditworthiness of our society and individuals in it. At one moment, one can be the most valuable and creditworthy customer of a bank and at another moment, one can have the interest rate jacked up to what I would call usurious rates. This arbitrariness just sucks. We fought our War of Independence to be rid of arbitrary rule but here we are again with this total crock of arbitrary manipulation and collusion of government and moneyed interests.

I take an exception to your stating that it is an issue of class and generation. Class as an idea from Karl Marx is just passe. I will welcome any member of the 1% to join our movement because justice is not a function of class nor wealth nor any of the other attributes. Generation, analogous to class, is a generalization that can help us think but we should see through that it is just a lens through which we see reality and that it is not reality itself. There is the issue of justice here that we all need to work towards, no matter what class or generation or wotnot we belong to.

Actually, Goldman Sachs may seemingly be at the top of the ladder but they are a sell-side firm that represents (only sometimes, as even the masters of the universe and the government discovered to their dismay) the interests of the buy-side (asset management) firms. Who are the owners of the interests of these buy-side firms? They are all of us through our pension plans, insurance contracts, school endowments, foundations, etc. Yes, WE are the people who ultimately control this monstrous vampire. The somewhat surprising thing that I had unraveled was that WE ARE the source of much of this conflict of interest and snafu because we do not realize that our own greed(or so interpreted or perceived by our deputies) is what had created the handcuffs for ourselves.

poetic - though we didn't all create this system and certainly we here are not the ones perpetuating it... especially not when our government was bribed and stolen and the democratic process was ousted (well at least me, I'm not participating where I don't have to with my dollars plus not much to contribute there so)...but the name of the game here is to become so large and powerful and consolidated that the consumer becomes part of a parasitic symbiotic relationship of forced reliancy. In other words want to eat/ only show in town, well you buy / costs this much - can't pay/work more, no jobs/ use subsidies not enough taxes now/ here we are ...at the edge of a cliff = (or in laymen's terms corporate bailout) but yes people need to make the connection of where their dollars go and what they perpetuate or who they decide to help grow larger. In a capitalist society apparently they will be your leader, so buy wisely?or...BOYCOTT where applicable! since noone seems willing to de-monopolize it.

Do you own a 401k, IRA, in a pension plan, have home owner insurance, health insurance, car insurance, death insurance, disability insurance, attend college with financial aid disbursements from endowment, or watch a TV show supported by the XYZ Endowment or Foundation? If you have never done any of these, you are not part of the problem. If you did any of these, you may be part of the problem.

We let our corporations create all of these structures that we bought into so in a sense we created these problems ourselves like you had said with the iPhone. The silver lining of this really dark cloud is that we created it so we can also destroy it. The Gordians who created the knot also have Alexander's sword. I sought to insulate myself as much as possible from the corporations so as not to be part of the problem, not that it would make much difference if I am doing it alone, but it makes me feel much better about myself as a decent human being. Yes, private pleasure has value for me, too.

The corporate oligarchs are certainly criminal although our system of justice has not prosecuted them much -- perhaps nearly everyone in AND out of our government felt guilty, not daring to point the finger, lest their own excreta be found in the financial cesspool and traced back. By no means, the corporate oligarchs could effect by themselves the Great Recession without neglect or collusion from our government. The systemic failure could have been stopped in myriad places but no one dared disturb the prevailing silence.

We the people also include the 1% corporate oligarchs. Our pensions were not raided by them directly. It is not true that they got all our money. The corporate oligarchs lost huge amounts, too, but that is probably well deserved. The money associated with the credit bubble had come from thin air simply disappeared into thin air when the confidence collapsed. After all, ye all who play the con game must abide by the rules of the con game -- easy come easy go.

No the 1% oligarchs indeed got away with the loot. they didn't lose anything.

It was the decent hard working americans who lost everything why they were victimized by mortgage fraud, pension loss from market failure due to irresponsible oligarchs, and millions of job loses from same oligarchs causing world economic crash.

1% created the mess, & didn't get hurt at all. They got bailed out we got sold out.

It is not necessarily the same 1% because ownership changes hands at electronic and optical speeds. Some of the 1% who held on probably were not hurt much at all but those who did not hold on were probably hurt per capita more in their financial assets than the 99% simply because they have so much more in financial assets than the 99%.

Now the job losses are a different matter. The 1% was certainly culpable but what could we have done otherwise if they got us and the world economy by the throat?

There are 1% who support the 99% and acknowledge that the vast majority ofthe 1% escaped losses and in fact increased their % of wealth.

The 1% have taken 85% of all new wealth created in the last few years.

Sorry I do not accept your contention that any measurable % ofthe 1% losy money. They increased their wealth. For any 1%'r that may have. I care.not.

My concern is for the decent hard working Americans who make up the engine of our economy and continue to have their wealth transferred to the greedy, lazy, do nothing 1%'rs who embrace socialist govt policies that benefit their class but never if it benefits the working/middlr class.

You have just named the source of the 1%/99% wealth "transfer" -- decent hard working Americans who work for the 1% to create much wealth for them. I do not call it a transfer because the wealth did not exist prior to the injection of capital, technology, and labor. Wealth can be created and destroyed depending on the harmonies or coherence of purpose achieved.

Germany did not have our system of subsidizing mortgages by allowing tax deductions on the interests. They do not have vastly lower rates of home ownership. Our mortgage interest deduction only served to enable people to get in over their heads and drown themselves when a financial wave comes by. Yes, it was immoral to set a trap for people like that but one could also chalk up some responsibility to the mortgage or credit card borrower for not having the financial prudence. Some corporate oligarchs certainly were and still are culpable so prosecution is warranted.

I NEVER blame the victims (marks) of that con job! I'll leave that to you. I know how con jobswork, In the end the guys who "get away with the loot" or the con men, the criminals.

So many banks (not enough) have been fined (not enough) for mtg fraund, negligence, racism, criminality, that we can be comfortable stating THEY (!% bankster oligarchs) are responsible for the mtg crash.

Of course, the banksters are responsible for the mortgage crash because they were supposed to be the gate-keepers so they were negligent at the very least and very likely malevolent as some subpoenaed information had shown.

Virtually no one aside from real-estate attorneys perhaps reads through the fine prints on a mortgage so many people probably fell victims to the predatory industry. It is however possible not to have fallen into the traps set by the banksters. For example, U.S. wage growth lagging far behind housing price increases tipped some people off as early as 2005. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that house mortgages need to be paid by the wages earned.

Not totally true. The information was public so people were simply not taking notice of the blatant gap. Of course, at the time nearly all of us were "intoxicated" with the ride on the financial rockets of our houses powered by mortgage debts so there was even official suppression of the cry-wolf-ers.

The bankers knew! They perpetrated crimes related to fraud, racism and dishonest improper practices. They have admitted as much. The decent hard working American borrowers were conned, they were the victims.

We the people let the 1% rape us because we believe in "money" and all of the associated fiction that they had created. Dig deeply into how our 401k's or houses have recovered "so much" of their lost values and can you discover where all of that "money" came from? Stock market recovered greatly and hundreds of billions of dollars of new wealth has been "created" so we have been really missing out on it, right?

The truth is that there is a vast difference between a tangent and a secant and the financially savvy ones know the difference and take advantage of it. Diluting the power of the people through multiple layers of financial intermediaries (through mutual funds, pension funds, banks, financial fiduciaries, corporate boards, insurance companies, foundations, trusts [blind or otherwise], etc.) is the same trick used for creating the Great Recession. There are so many intertwined layers that the financial relationships from individuals back to themselves become nearly untraceable.

We dream of the system resisting. We dream of the system standing tall. We dream of it raping us. When we awaken and because of that the system crashes and vanishes like the monstrous vampire meeting the light of dawn, we then know that it was all just a very bad dream. It was so frightening because we had imbued it with our own meanings and we had given it mental power.

The financial system is a simulation that supposedly tracks reality. The financially savvy ones knew this but abused their control of the simulation generator so others suffered because they did not understand the nature of the very bad dream.

No. Our financial system is a con game, literally. It is built on and sustained by CONfidence and that can be very ephemeral, non-existent, very solid, or anywhere amongst them. The value of something is what a free-willed person will voluntarily ante up to acquire it. That depends very much on confidence.

What forced the hand of government post-Lehman-collapse was the runs on the money market funds where many businesses kept their payroll money. If the runs were to go on, we could have seen many businesses closing down, not having the money to pay their employees. The employees not having money cannot buy from the businesses and the whole system can collapse. It was very scary but we did not fall into the abyss of confidence collapse which can be very real indeed but also ultimately unreal.

If the question is repeated over and over,we can only repeat the honest answer.

Seems. he's like you and wants people to be distracted from the facts of corporate oligarchs being the problem. Doesn't hewant to provide the corp criminals cover by saying it is govt that is at the top of the pyramid?

I ain't confused, I ain't got a problem going deeper, I don't need to name names.

Do you own fuckin research. Look at Wall st/brokerage/hedge funds/banking/insurance/ratings agencies/big pharma/big oil,gas,coal/big agri/big real estate, take their board members, their top execs. And you got a good start.

And also the brainwashed tools (1/2 the 99% (repubs)) who work to distract from the 1% corp oligarchal criminals and blame the pension holders or corp tool pols.

Yes, some corporate oligarchs are criminals but all of us are either enablers or accomplices. Every time we use a credit card, we are in fact giving a slice of our economy to them. Have you used or do you still use credit cards? Every time we take out a mortgage, a car loan, or a student loan from a corporation, we are doing the same thing again. Very few people are truly innocent not having propped up the corporate oligarchs and enabling their criminal activities.

are you familiar with McCarthyism ? Cause you sound kind of like that to me - yes slap a red stamp on my forehead and justify a groups moronic behavior (typically I would refer to them as assholes). But in this case they seem to belong to an awful large generation who seems to be dictating a pretty shitty lifestyle with their voting card ... hmmm - kind of like what the German citizenry and bystanders did to the Jewish people ??

So, let me get this straight, the millenials are all the same, you compare them to the German citizens during nazi rule, & I'm like McCarthy?

AaaaaaaaaaH ha ha haha. LMFAO. That is rich.

The millenials are a generation like any other, some useless, seem active. OWS was formed by them, and as such they are changing the country and the world for the better. By contrast the Hitler youth all followed govt blindly.

So you are absolutely wrong, millenials are NOT all the same, have created much positive change and my calling you out for generalizing a whole generation is not McCarthyism, Your generalization though is just plain ignorant.

maybe I may be wrong - Happy to provide a laugh - but does it give pause that they all follow their i-phones blindly instead of boycotting the makers on Wall Street who produce them in Chinese slave factories? Herumphh - thanks for the luck - I guess I will need as much as I can get. My point is they aren't connecting their lifestyles or choices to the outcomes (much like Hitler Youth in fact) good description ! or was that mine ? You'd think that those who hate Wall Street and are running a supposed protest against them would stop giving them all their money on items that aren't necessities- just sayin.

The really important thing here is what the millennials used their iPhones or iXxxxx for. Lenin said that the Capitalists would sell ropes to him to hang them with. Should Lenin not use the ropes because they were politically contaminated by the Capitalists? Of course not. iXxxxx can be great tools for social change if used properly.

I have no problem saying I do marketing, I work for myself. 32 and broke. Why do you think I liked recruitment so much? duh.

And you should have no problem admitting you live off of rentals and financial investments. Oh the hypocrisy!! Maybe you should help out with the finance team in NY. Or maybe help out at all, that would be a nice change of pace.

And it doesnt take a rocket scientist to read through your posts and realize its all just silly gargling that isnt based in anything reality based...

"We" "We" "We" ... Ive never seen someone do so little and take so much credit.

Well said. I admit that I don't really understand this phenomenon. The millennials have so much more depth than they are given credit for. Is this "they aren't rebellious" thing just a ruse or wish by mainstream media? Or were millennials unrebellious until they had something to rebel against? Life was pretty cushy for many of them with baby boomer parents with some money who thrived during Clinton years (but were once rebels themselves).

I think a sma but visible percentage are as you describe but that most are bright, strong, confident, savvy and they're waking the fuck up quickly. They are our best hope and I'm confident that with our help they can lead this country to a brighter future. We can do this together. Together we are greater than the sum of our parts. Together we can break these divisive chains and rise.

I think the worst of us Gen X'ers were as annoying as the worst of the GenY/Millenials and we should overlook the worst of all groups. They're the slim minority. Let's focus on harnessing the power of the majority.

I was trying to recruit people for the ol hope and change campaign in 08 and it was like pulling teeth at the campuses.

Sometimes people think Im being too hard...and then a few think Im purposely trying to dissuade... which is bullshit because they have no clue..

What Im trying to do is paint a realistic picture of the moutain in front of us. I think its manageable, but when people take it too lightly they get burned out and frustrated, and then you dont see them anymore (Im sure youve seen this- not including internet chats).

Like with the Walmart walkout gig. We fliered the entire store. The other groups didnt do theirs. You know how many employees we got to show up for the meeting? 1. 1 employee showed up. Talk about deflating. But its the reality. And if its not accepted, people get dissappointed and quit.

I'd spend an entire night flyering for events. Maybe get 2-3 people to show up.

And honestly, the lacking of the youth wasnt the dissapointing thing. It was the lacking of older adults, those who have management and organizing experience. Huge groups of kids trying to get things going, doing the best they can, and the majority of the adults simply would just honk when they drove by.

I dont know, its frustrating all the way around. I guess I just get motivated by the bigger the hurdle, some dont. Which is fine. But I always felt there needed to be a balance, because if numbers are going down down down and everyone is just happy as shit and thinking its going great, well....we see where that gets us.

I do measure progress by the number of people at actions / protests. I agree that's important and we can't ever delude ourselves. However, I think you're so close to this with all of your sincere effort that you also sometimes miss the big picture. We are a very young movement. We're only 2 minutes in to a 2 hour game. I realize the urgency of the moment but we have a LOT going for us and we're in it for the long haul. We're looking at a 5 - 10 time horizon to achieve occupy aims. We're going to see peaks and valleys along the way. Sometimes the lava is bubbling just beneath the surface and sometimes it's spewing out of an erupting volcano. Our job as individuals in my view is to take care of ourselves. Get plenty of rest and work our asses off during our free waking hours to move the ball forward every single fucking day, when it's sexy and fun and when it's boring and demoralizing. That's what gets the job done.

I'm not speaking to you personally here of course. I can't possibly criticize you personally because clearly you are working your ass off and putting it on the line. All I'm saying is that what you're doing is important and you should keep doing it relentlessly. I'm trying to give you a high 5 here even if it doesn't sound like it.

I still think we should be frustrated. We should channel that frustration though into direct nonviolent actions. Because Chris Hedges is absolutely right about the seriousness, momentum and sheer size of the force we're up against. That force is picking up steam so we need to act every day of the week with whatever we have. Always dedicated to nonviolence.

We can do this OTP. Of this I am absolutely positive. We're going to win this.

sorry not to discourage you, looking to boomers and millennial for hope? - grrr - you're a gen-exer?
though i enjoy the irony and - I've agreed with and enjoyed some of your other posts - all I can say is yugh.

Can't defeat without defeatism or a spray of negativity - the future is bleak - not full of sunshine and roses. Picture yourself wading and sifting through a heaping pile of garbage for scraps like they do in the third world (cause that's what we're facing) as you wish for our current state of affairs back (for these were the good times)... now don't you wish you got a bit angrier and fought a little harder when you still had strength and enough food to eat and some will to fight? If you think these things don't happen, if don't think that the same people who caused there it aren't running the same show here, then you are blind or a fool or both. The only time to prevent your current future path is NOW. Wall Street works at lightspeed - turning slowly in those terms means you lost.

Boomers and Millenials don't have the same stake in the game pure and simple which is why they won't touch Classism with a ten foot cattle prod. Yes plenty of Classism - here we are, Entering a new age of Aristocracy but shhh "let's not talk about that" you can identify with a cause until you actually live it - then you seem half- assed and insincere and the movement will be held underwater exactly where Wall Street wants the public. Maybe you have a trust fund to fall back on if this all doesn't work out, (seems like the people running this protest might) but I don't.

See. That's the thing. The trust fund some few have doesn't make them lucky and it doesnt mean they can quench their fundamental thirst for a community. Why else would people who have some wealth be involved in occupy? It's because they've been down that road and they see it's a dead end.

Anyway, you're only talking about .000001 % of Occupy. The rest are just like you and end, a few weeks, a few months away from poverty if we experience some type of hardship. Another world is possible. This place doesn't need to be so shallow and harsh. We can do this elf. We can live it.

Well many are NOT rebellious. There is some truth to that. They mirror our society at large. All who are comfortable don't acknowledge the problems and won't rebel.

I submit many are rebellious. (Occupy owes much to millennials). because more & more are NOT comfortable, and are acknowledging the economic inequities.

So for us the challenge is convincing more & more comfortable Americans (of all ages) to acknowledge the real economic inequities we all face.

They must be convinced that if they do not act these inequities will creep up and affect them next. Fear is such a powerful tool. It is the current tactic used (dishonestly) to get support for waging war/rights violations & to push economic policies that hurt the 99%.

We must recognize the power of fear and use it (honestly) to make the comfortable aware.

I think you're right. Millennials are a diverse group that is highly intelligent and quickly awakening. I agree they are the reason Occupy Wall St. rose from nothing in a matter of weeks around the world. I also agree with the fact that some of them were sheltered and comfortable and bought into the system early on but they're sure seeing it for what it is loud and clear now.

We owe them everything and our future rests with them. We have to do everything we can to help them rise. We also need to listen to what they say. They know a lot we don't and can help lead us to the nonviolent revolutionary transformation we never quite figured out how to provoke.

as soon as their loans are forgiven - they are gone...faster than they can spell "I'm more successful and smarter than you and I have prettier ugg boots too and he who gets the most toys and free ride first .....wins"!!!!

You're too focused on a tiny percent of the millennials. You gotta get out and about man. You'll meet people who will wake you up to the reality that every generation has their assholes and slackers, their self centered bastards and good folks, their couch slugs and their activists, their materialists and their spiritualists. We gotta stop "Descartes-ing" (dividing things up artificially and then believing the divisions are real. They aren't. Some of the problem is the way you and I and most of us look at the world. Check this out: a completely different solution http://occupywallst.org/forum/new-view-why-gun-control-peace-treaties-campaign-f/

I think it would help us grow the movement if, in addition to diagnosing what's wrong with the current state of affairs, we also described solutions and outlined our vision for what this world would be like if we implemented thoe solutions. In order to motivate people to do more than watch from a distance, we're going to have to MOVE THEM with powerful solutions and vision. I think we need to divide our time a little more equally on those fronts.

Obviously, we also need to spend time on nonviolent direct action which is the single most powerful way to raise awareness ( WE HAVE THE POWER (using direct action and web in tandem): http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

GREAT POINT!!!!! Excellent. Yes. Let's do more of that -- mixed in with the positive vision too. If all we do is depress people with the truth, they'll ignore it. I think the recipe is 30 minutes of solution and positive vision of what future holds if we implements those solutions for every 30 minutes of diagnosing problems.

Excellent point. I think you're absolutely right. People are hungry for solutions and if you even alluded to them in a very brief way, we could each perhaps get some people interested in learning more. We could also do this on a mass scale with crowd sourced commercials on the web and TV. We ought to convey the idea that there may be a better way and communicate that, if we would implement it, we could have a world that is completely different. If we could begin to lay out some plausible action steps and also a clear vision for where those action steps might lead, we can really begin to build an even larger base of support. I think you're right though that it has to begin with something short.

I would add that Fawkesnews has awakened me to the fact that just listening can help. The reason for this is that when someone begins to describe that the emperor has no clothes, and they see you listening, they get a chance to feel what it's like to speak the truth out loud. At first this may seem to be very minor. But once you think about it, you really begin to realize the power of this. Once people feel confident in speaking out loud that in turn makes other people feel more confident to do the same. This can bring with it a virtuous cycle and once we enter that virtuous cycle, there's no fucking stopping us.

I think Fawkesnews said it pretty plainly, when he or she said that , once everyone feels comfortable speaking up, all the rest will be irrelevant. The rest will just be hard work and details from that point forward.

hmmm - yes today's young people are tomorrow's leaders - "our heroes, raise them up, question not their authority or sincerity AND prepare them for a future knowing they are the best and by doing what's best for themselves, then surely it will benefit us all" with a half-hearted cheer for the working class and poor folks (Remind you of Congress by chance?) When I see the anger, when I see true concern for others above self, when I see a return to the original point of Occupy, when I see they have a stake. maybe I'll back them, until then I think scrutiny is appropriate. Something's wrong with this movement, and I think it may be the people involved.

If they have to be convinced they are not there with you - sorry VQkag2 - sorry to disappoint you but the answer for the problems for this movement are staring you in the face. You shouldn't have to hunt for the dis-enfranchised -there are plenty of people out here but they obviously don't feel represented by the people running this thing. It reeks of disconnection (perhaps elitism? I don't really know) . another ism for you i know you hate that...classis..mmm - I won't upset you with that one I know it may put you over the edge.

Numbers are shell of what they were, and it needs to be figured out exactly why, by the ones who actually organized it, that is.

My thoughts:

Massive disorganization. All young people. the older organizers sat on their asses and watched the youth struggle through even the most basic of steps. Which was a great learning experience for all involved, but ultitmately a major setback.

"We arent political." Granted, this has waned, but at the beginning this rabid stance was crucial in driving away gamechanging organizers

"Must have a camp". Anyone who slept out knows its a drain. When the focus becomes more on the park than on the message, then the park is the message and therefore those who are curious will be discouraged. Keep a park. Great. Dont get married to it.

There's a difference between being a success (an opinion) vs growing (hard numbers). If you cant distiguish between those two then perhaps you need to go back to school and get an education. No one is arguing about the successes. The discussion is on what went wrong to go from massive amounts of people to just a shred.

Confused again? God you are a pain in the ass of everyone on this board.

I disagree!! And I ain't confused, I know exactly what you and you cohorts are doing. Your criticisms are a weak attempt to put us down, slow us up.

We ARE changing the world, We MUST grow of course. We haven't failed in that effort, we are affected by the realities of large movements, & the opposition that is putting us down, unfailry criticising us, attaching unrealistic measurments.

You might be confused with that although I think you understand, I thinkn it is exactly what you are attempting.

My focus is on our success and building on it. You create phony negatives and weakly attempt to malign and beat us down.!

I think the age group that we actually might be able to reach in larger numbers are just a bit younger than the millennials. I think the kids that are in high school and the early years of college today are the group to focus on. These kids have grown up during their later teen years in the throws of the great recession. They understand it better than the millennials, they learned about it in school and they lived it during their most formative years.

And, much gratitude to all the millennials who camped out all over this country for Occupy. They are awesome, as well, and all of these ideas are generalizations.

I agree 100 percent on that - the kids I meet from this generation are truly purposeful beyond status and wealth...they are the hope!! my only fear is they will be what gen-xers are to the boomers and be taken over by the Millennials. Not saying they are all this way but they become generalizations when enough of them behave in a similar manner that it can be observed and recognized by a large percentage of the population.

I'm glad you agree, elf. :) I personally know a few who are looking to change the world. They give me inspiration and keep me going, and if we can reach them with the knowledge that we have perhaps we can prevent them from becoming apathetic, and then, maybe they really can change the world.

What I worry about is whether this group was shielded by their parents from the stark reality that afflicted so many other people. I remember that when I was their age, I did not really care much about economics because I did not even have that much money to manage and once I was in college, I was up to my eyeballs with the learning and earning. I did not have the consciousness that all of that money and credit were subject to manipulations until years later. My parents cocooned me from the shocks but it also meant that I did not awaken.

I think it has gotten bad enough that shielding kids from our economic realities has become nearly impossible. That is why I think the younger kids have eyes wide open. You are definitely right, though, that parents try to shield their kids from these realities taking out more and more loans, for instance, in order to keep up with the Joneses. It's pretty pathetic.

Yes, after thirty-plus years of financial and military steroid administration, it has become really hard to cocoon anyone and the "liver cancer" has struck. Even our federal government was grappling with how to defuse the "debt bomb" in emergency sessions of the Congress and secret discussions with the White House.

These age groups you speak of are or should be ripe to see positive change. The younger should be ripe to sow positive outlooks for treating each other. More so then the older kids who have been subjected to the ills of society longer. Both groups are susceptible to positive thoughts and actions though. As are grown adults - if the positive thoughts and actions can be shown to actually be positive.

Yes and so some are looking for the correct actions to take and to get involved with - while others need to find them-self - as many like many of us before them - have opted out in various ways. I believe that this is where OWS/Occupy fills a great hole in pointing out what needs to be addressed and that there is hope for all to have a healthy future in working together.