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"Weeks and months" are too long to produce matter that would be "the basis of batteries the size of a briefcase to drive your car 1000 miles at highway speeds on a single charge, without gasoline"?

And even if he couldn't produce enough materials fast enough to displace a significant portion of the civilian auto market, why not at least produce some for more niche applications, where cost is less of a factor?

How about military drones with batteries that let them stay in the air 10 times as long? You don't think the US would shell out for those batteries, even if they cost 100 times as much?

How about long-term scientific measuring stations in remote locations? I've got a friend who placed geosensors all over northern Quebec for a years-long research project, and I'm sure she'd have at least looked at new batteries that could keep them running longer, so as to reduce the effort needed to maintain the stations for years.

How about NASA? No more futzing around with radiothermal generators, and the environmentalist complaints every time they try to launch one, just get a battery that will last just as long.

I'm sure others could come up with other such niche uses, where cost is less important than the lifetime of the battery. Make a few million dollars there, prove that you can actually do what you claim you can do (for once!) all the while figuring out how to make them faster and cheaper, so that when you're ready for the mass market, you've got 20 years of brand recognition in highly visible, and notoriously grueling, conditions to build on.

"BLP HydrinoBatteries! As used by NASA, now for your Prius!"

__________________Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

We've brought up that village voice article at least a couple of times before.
I'll certainly agree that Mills is not great with timelines. As I've said before, he finds a new and improved type of environment for producing hydrinos and in his enthusiasm doesn't take proper account of the new, potential obstacles.

Those compounds. Yes he was producing compounds with certain, predicted properties. What is not evident in the article is how long it took to produce them from his cells. Weeks and months. Too long.

Someone else described Mills as evil (I think, didn't check).

If he was producing hydrino compounds in ~1999, in considerable quantity; if there was even a slight possibility they would have the magical medical powers mentioned ... how could one call Mills anything less than extremely callous, even evil? And aren't all the others who were involved in the research on them almost as bad?

How many millions of lives were cut short or made miserable but for the life-saving hydrino compounds?

What can you say about the morals of the dozens of people who willfully did nothing to continue investigating compounds with such potential? Surely there's a special place in Hell reserved for them?

And even if he couldn't produce enough materials fast enough to displace a significant portion of the civilian auto market, why not at least produce some for more niche applications, where cost is less of a factor?

How about military drones with batteries that let them stay in the air 10 times as long? You don't think the US would shell out for those batteries, even if they cost 100 times as much?

How about long-term scientific measuring stations in remote locations? I've got a friend who placed geosensors all over northern Quebec for a years-long research project, and I'm sure she'd have at least looked at new batteries that could keep them running longer, so as to reduce the effort needed to maintain the stations for years.

How about NASA? No more futzing around with radiothermal generators, and the environmentalist complaints every time they try to launch one, just get a battery that will last just as long.

I'm sure others could come up with other such niche uses, where cost is less important than the lifetime of the battery. Make a few million dollars there, prove that you can actually do what you claim you can do (for once!) all the while figuring out how to make them faster and cheaper, so that when you're ready for the mass market, you've got 20 years of brand recognition in highly visible, and notoriously grueling, conditions to build on.

"BLP HydrinoBatteries! As used by NASA, now for your Prius!"

What's even more remarkable about this is why none of the people on the BLP (or whatever) Board (or advisor panel or ...) seems to have tried to push an avenue like this.

Yet, per markie (etc), those people include several with deep knowledge of, and connections to, institutions like the Navy.

Are they along for the scam ride? Or are they utterly incompetent too?

Those compounds. Yes he was producing compounds with certain, predicted properties. What is not evident in the article is how long it took to produce them from his cells. Weeks and months. Too long.

Do you know how long it takes to make usable quantities of heavy water? How long it takes to produce a high-grade uranium fuel rod? To extract aluminum from bauxite?

It takes decades to produce a high-quality bottle of whisky. The process can't be rushed or accelerated. And yet generating the substance is a multimillion dollar global industry for two reasons: First, because whisky has obvious value. Second, because whisky is a real thing that actually exists.

Same with the other substances I mentioned. When a real substance has obvious value, the people that know how to make it have little difficulty raising the capital for either a long-term investment, or a wider-scale investment, or both.

Mills is not slowly producing small quantities of extremely valuable substances. We have plenty of examples of what that looks like in the real world, and it looks nothing like what Mills is doing.

We've brought up that village voice article at least a couple of times before.
I'll certainly agree that Mills is not great with timelines.

That village voice article and ones like it will keep being bought up every time some moron recycles another Mills promise of another device being ready "any day now."

Why?

Because it establishes his pattern of failed promises. It shows that when Mills makes ANY kind of a claim about future commercialization it's a bald faced lie. Mills cannot be trusted. He cannot be taken at face value.

The word of Randell L. Mills is worthless. He has been wrong too many times for too long for his claims to have any value. If he's not a liar running a Thernaos style con, then he's an inept moron who really should have been booted from a leadership position by his board about 20 years ago.

__________________Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!

Or telling the truth when he says he has a product that's ready to go.

"Weeks and months" are too long to produce matter that would be "the basis of batteries the size of a briefcase to drive your car 1000 miles at highway speeds on a single charge, without gasoline"? I mean, you understand how revolutionary that would be, don't you? It'd solve 50-90% of the world's air pollution and about 8% of the world's greenhouse gas emission problems. Not only would he be a billionaire multiple times over, but he'd slash the rates of disease and help put our planet in a position where it might still be able to sustain human life in a couple of hundred years. He could literally save the human race. Instead he's sat on it for 20 years, while he tries to work out how to convert heat into energy.

Please note that these are calculated properties of these novel compounds, whether for battery use or or coatings or whatever. I have never heard of them actually testing the compounds for said uses. On the other hand for twenty five years Mills has been repeatedly testing various hydrino formation environments for energy and hydrino production. One has to be able to produce hydrino in sufficient quantities to consider using hydrino product, and to produce hydrino means producing energy. Any battery success will necessarily be years after energy success.

The human race doesn't need saving. We've been surviving for hundreds of thousands of years, and probably doing better now that we ever have.

Quote:

There are three possibilities - he and everybody who works for him is incredibly short-sighted and incompetent, he's an evil human being, or he's a fraud.

And even if he couldn't produce enough materials fast enough to displace a significant portion of the civilian auto market, why not at least produce some for more niche applications, where cost is less of a factor?

How about military drones with batteries that let them stay in the air 10 times as long? You don't think the US would shell out for those batteries, even if they cost 100 times as much?

How about long-term scientific measuring stations in remote locations? I've got a friend who placed geosensors all over northern Quebec for a years-long research project, and I'm sure she'd have at least looked at new batteries that could keep them running longer, so as to reduce the effort needed to maintain the stations for years.

How about NASA? No more futzing around with radiothermal generators, and the environmentalist complaints every time they try to launch one, just get a battery that will last just as long.

I'm sure others could come up with other such niche uses, where cost is less important than the lifetime of the battery. Make a few million dollars there, prove that you can actually do what you claim you can do (for once!) all the while figuring out how to make them faster and cheaper, so that when you're ready for the mass market, you've got 20 years of brand recognition in highly visible, and notoriously grueling, conditions to build on.

"BLP HydrinoBatteries! As used by NASA, now for your Prius!"

New hydrino compounds have only been predicted and identified. I've never heard of them being actually tested for, say, battery applications. That in itself will take years after a hydrino energy source is established in the marketplace.

He's made lots progress over the course of 25 years. Soon to achieve escape velocity.

Are you saying that he's fleeced enough money out of his investors and now he's about to disappear mysteriously?

Dave

__________________Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

If he was producing hydrino compounds in ~1999, in considerable quantity; if there was even a slight possibility they would have the magical medical powers mentioned ... how could one call Mills anything less than extremely callous, even evil? And aren't all the others who were involved in the research on them almost as bad?

How many millions of lives were cut short or made miserable but for the life-saving hydrino compounds?

What can you say about the morals of the dozens of people who willfully did nothing to continue investigating compounds with such potential? Surely there's a special place in Hell reserved for them?

Just to be clear, someone was referring to an earlier invention of Mills that would treat cancer. That invention had naught to do with hydrino.

Mills is clearly preoccupied with bettering the condition of the human race, and he works his butt off to do so. But I suppose he's not the first benevolent genius to be called evil.

Please note that these are calculated properties of these novel compounds, whether for battery use or or coatings or whatever. I have never heard of them actually testing the compounds for said uses. On the other hand for twenty five years Mills has been repeatedly testing various hydrino formation environments for energy and hydrino production. One has to be able to produce hydrino in sufficient quantities to consider using hydrino product, and to produce hydrino means producing energy. Any battery success will necessarily be years after energy success.

The human race doesn't need saving. We've been surviving for hundreds of thousands of years, and probably doing better now that we ever have.

Well at least we've moved beyond binary.

That's another reason Mills can't be trusted.

He brags about all these novel compounds with untested proprietress being produced from waste material from his device. Where are the safety studies? Who is doing the testing to make sure hydrino byproducts aren't, for example, a carcinogen?

This is another case of "If Mills is right and telling the truth, he's still a moron."

Does he really think he's going to roll out a commercial product like that with NO safety testing regarding the exotic compounds he's bragged the devices produce? One of the compounds he bragged about was an explosive. The Department of Homeland security is going to have a few questions about that.

What is he doing to deal with all these issues? Regulatory issues and safety testing can take YEARS.

__________________Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!

Please note that these are calculated properties of these novel compounds, whether for battery use or or coatings or whatever. I have never heard of them actually testing the compounds for said uses.

So what you're saying is that that was all just marketing guff and we shouldn't take Mills at his word? If the best defence you can make of him is that he's a liar, then that doesn't really say much, does it?

And your defence doesn't really work on this quote:

Quote:

Hydrinos combined with inorganic elements produce conductive, magnetic plastics that would revolutionize circuitry and aerospace engineering, and shrink and speed up semiconductors.

Not "can produce", not "might produce", just "produce". Conductive, magnetic plastics. He'd be a billionaire and wouldn't have to ask anybody for any kind of funding for anything.

So...where are they?

Quote:

The human race doesn't need saving. We've been surviving for hundreds of thousands of years, and probably doing better now that we ever have.

He brags about all these novel compounds with untested proprietress being produced from waste material from his device. Where are the safety studies? Who is doing the testing to make sure hydrino byproducts aren't, for example, a carcinogen?

This is another case of "If Mills is right and telling the truth, he's still a moron."

Does he really think he's going to roll out a commercial product like that with NO safety testing regarding the exotic compounds he's bragged the devices produce? One of the compounds he bragged about was an explosive. The Department of Homeland security is going to have a few questions about that.

What is he doing to deal with all these issues? Regulatory issues and safety testing can take YEARS.

IIRC, we've been over this before.

To operate a lab in NJ, you need all kinds of permits. Especially one that claims to be producing something novel, like hydrinos.

Some of this stuff is public domain, but not all.

I don't recall that markie (if he was active back then), or anyone else, providing any answers as to what permits Mills/BLP/whatever has, to operate their research/prototype/production facility near Princeton, NJ. Nor what he hasn't, but needs.

Perhaps the lack of news in local NJ papers about BLP being fined for this or that violation of relevant regulations points to the fact that nothing is actually happening there (other than scamming, which requires no NJ permits )?

I have never heard of them actually testing the compounds for said uses.

That is somewhat telling...

__________________I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar

New hydrino compounds have only been predicted and identified. I've never heard of them being actually tested for, say, battery applications. That in itself will take years after a hydrino energy source is established in the marketplace.

To operate a lab in NJ, you need all kinds of permits. Especially one that claims to be producing something novel, like hydrinos.

Some of this stuff is public domain, but not all.

I don't recall that markie (if he was active back then), or anyone else, providing any answers as to what permits Mills/BLP/whatever has, to operate their research/prototype/production facility near Princeton, NJ. Nor what he hasn't, but needs.

Perhaps the lack of news in local NJ papers about BLP being fined for this or that violation of relevant regulations points to the fact that nothing is actually happening there (other than scamming, which requires no NJ permits )?

Yes I remember that discussion I believe someone also noted that it would be interesting to see where the waste material from that lab went, what type of safety equipment was installed and how much electrical power was being used there.

I wonder if they have hazardous material warning signs and have provided information to the fire department about what is in that building?

I would suspect the answer to all five questions would be: A typical office building.

New hydrino compounds have only been predicted and identified. I've never heard of them being actually tested for, say, battery applications.

And there, you've gone and pointed out yet another field of experiments that would be ripe for a generation of grad students and new professors to work on. You could probably write hundreds or thousands of papers on the characteristics of the various "predicted" hydrino compounds when used in actual devices, comparing the lab results to the theory, and adjusting both sides of the work based on the outcomes.

And yet, not one peep from anyone about any of this.

Quote:

That in itself will take years after a hydrino energy source is established in the marketplace.

Why would you need hydrino production as an "energy source" to work on the characteristics of these batteries, or even to produce batteries for niche commercial uses? Every raw material we use costs us energy to produce, and yet we still use them to produce commercial products.

Someone above mentioned the alleged medical uses of hydrino compounds. Well, one of the big current pushes in nuclear research is the production of medically-useful radioisotopes using things like small research-sized nuclear reactors, or via charged particle bombardment. None of that produces useful amounts of extra energy, and most actually consume energy, but people in labs all over the world are working on it, because the radioisotope output is so incredibly valuable that the energy cost doesn't matter.

Mills could be making millions or billions without ever breaking even on the energy balance, if even a part of what he claim to be true actually is true.

But again, nary a peep.

__________________Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

New hydrino compounds have only been predicted and identified. I've never heard of them being actually tested for, say, battery applications. That in itself will take years after a hydrino energy source is established in the marketplace.

This was then:

Originally Posted by markie

Originally Posted by Darat

The ones he promised to researchers and then never delivered.

Also when will he be providing his first sample with "anti-gravity" properties as he also promised back in the early days?

Those crystal compounds were delivered to lots of labs, as described earlier in this thread.

Hydrino hydrides don't have antigravity properties. Rather, Mills proposes that a free electron can be so energized as to produce a hyperbolic space time curvature around it, which would counter the positive space time curvature of gravity..

Just to be clear, someone was referring to an earlier invention of Mills that would treat cancer. That invention had naught to do with hydrino.

That invention has everything to do with Mills credibility.
A medical doctor in 1988 promising a treatment for cancer and not delivering is the beginning of a track record of failure to deliver.
A medical doctor in 2000 basically lying about "spur breakthroughs in fighting cancer and AIDS, as well as scanning the human body in three dimensions, in real time" is continuing a track record of failures to deliver..
A medical doctor starting in 1991 and claiming several times over 27 years to be able to produce cheap energy devices and failing is at best a crank and at worst a fraudster.
A medical doctor writing a book full of ignorance, delusions and lies is deluded.

The question a rational person will ask is: If a medical doctor cannot deliver on medical promises then how can we trust his non-medical promises?
An analogy: If a surgeon botches surgery than should we trust his electrician expertise to wire up a house?

Mills is clearly preoccupied with crank science that has only benefited him and his company.

So, in your earlier post you said: "Of course there is a cycle. The material within the drive has to regenerated and recirculated, and it amounts to a thermodynamic cycle."

What "material within the drive" is "regenerated and recirculated"?

Can you explain - in detail - all the phases of this "thermodynamic cycle"?

Since hydrinos are not turned back into hydrogen, what becomes of them?

What is the amount - kg, moles, whatever - of hydrinos which have been produced at the BLP facility in NJ, over the past 30 years?

Well there are open and closed MHD drives. But in both cases there is essentially a hot end and a cold end. As I understand it, in an open MHD drive there is the hot end where combustion occurs and where a metal alkali is seeded. It ionizes and is shot out the exhaust along with combustion products. The moving ions produce work against the magnetic field and ultimately produces electricity. I assume Mills is going to be using a closed MHD drive. This would typically involve heating a sealed container on one end, and the heated plasma expands and moves to the cooler end, producing work against an external magnetic field, and then the cooler fluid or gas is circulated back to the hot end and the process repeated, possible pulsed. The plasma/gas/fluid would be some kind of alkali metal.

Now, I am only speculating here, but the novelty of Mills' approach may be that he is not heating the closed MHD from without, but within.
But it would not be entirely closed; there would be some inlet for small amount of hydrogen gas. The dihydrino gas waste product would escape through the walls of the container. Again, just speculation on my part.

How much hydrino has been produced at BLP? Who knows. But there is dihydrino gas that would largely escape and is difficult to trap, and then there are various hydrino hydrides that are crystalline compounds.

Following BLP for about 18 years, there always seemed to be a few irons in the fire. There is only so much a smaller company like BLP can do at one time. Still if you read the latest quarterlies you can see that they are engaged on several fronts.

How much hydrino has been produced at BLP? Who knows. But there is dihydrino gas that would largely escape and is difficult to trap, and then there are various hydrino hydrides that are crystalline compounds.

Difficult to trap? I'd say that's the understatement of the year! Not one single hydrino ever detected and what Mills percieved as dihydrino gas permeating the containment was really just simple hydrogen embrittlement. There is no hydrino crystals period .. full stop. Never was and never will be. That was simply the power of suggestion. Waves something in the air and declares it to be a hydrino compound when it is certainly not and has never ever been shown to be by anyone, not even Mills.

__________________Scott
"Permaculture is a philosophy of working﻿ with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill MollisonBiome Carbon Cycle Management

Following BLP for about 18 years, there always seemed to be a few irons in the fire. There is only so much a smaller company like BLP can do at one time. Still if you read the latest quarterlies you can see that they are engaged on several fronts.

...in those 18 years have you ever noticed the strange change of company names, odd declarations that never play out, then a repeat of the same over and over again and Mills saying weird gibberish that never come true?

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