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I would like to weight in on the“lofty” discussion on Israel, the US and the Muslims. To begin with IMHO Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization and Culture. A good “Muslim” is like the Borg all dedicated to Islam and it's leaders with us “Infidels” as the enemy. We do have a total war on Muslim extremist world wide. We should pull out of Afgan and retaliate there or anyplace else in the world as necessary with whatever means and to heck with collateral damage.

Having said that Israel is only concerned about Israel and Jews. They have screwed over all non Jews in Israel including the Christians. They deliberately bombed our spy ship the USS Liberty in international waters. The attack resulted in the deaths of 34 American service men and another 170 injured and catastrophic damage to the ship all with fighter jets given to Israel by the US.

The case of Jonathon Pollard is another extreme example of Israel's total disregard for the interest and safety of the US in their handling of the tons of super top secret military secrets Pollard sold to Israel. The Soviet Union got access to most of the data either through deliberate trading of the top secret information for the Soviets allowing top Jewish nuclear scientists and engineers to immigrate to Israel or deliberate negligence or unbelievable sloppy handling of our top secret military secrets which allowed the Soviets to get the secrets.

There has been a massive campaign to free Pollard by Israel and Jews in the US but for the threat of a massive out cry from CIA personnel and the rest of the Intelligence agencies, this would have most likely been done. The outcry was mainly because of the not only the nature of the military secrets but the evidence showing that Israel “allowed” the Soviets to get their hands on it.

The point of all this is that Israel is only concerned about Israel and the Jews. They have shown no concern for the interests of the US or anyone else. I really don't care about the Muslims but Israel's treatment of non Jews Muslims,Christians, etc. since it was founded has ignited the Arab world and had a lot to do with the resurgence of radical religious Islam back to its roots of terrorism and a Jihad against the West. It has cost of thousands of lives and at least a trillion dollars and counting and our standard of living.

So yes I can't condone foreign aid to Israel and like George Washington I believe in defending our shores,no foreign aid to anyone. Back when we were fighting the expansionof communism world wide we were obligated IMO to help defend the freeworld. Now we need to draw inward retake our own country and rebuildourselves and of course strike out against the anti American terrorist whereever they are on the planet. Thank you, thank you very much

Funny robo, we are Israel's ally but they have never been ours and that is my point. You really believe that the attack on our ship the Liberty was not deliberate? You need to listen to what the surviving sailors and intelligence officers say about it. They were wounded and watched their fellow servicemen get killed in the attack. They are not liars and have not given false testimony. You should be standing by them. Thank you, thank you very much

"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."Sen. Barry Goldwater

You never miss an oportunity to protect Muslim terrorism by drudging up bad things from the past, do you? I thought it was just Americans you were so negative toward, but it seems that you also have a real disdain for Christians as well.

You seem to misunderstand. I just put things into perspective. Grouping all Muslims in together as one people is wrong because it is a religion of different sects as Christianity is and which has not always gotten allong with each other. Also this common Muslim as many think of them are split between different peoples, different countries. Almost like saying Canada, the U.S. and Britain are one.

But I knew you know that.

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

Funny robo, we are Israel's ally but they have never been ours and that is my point. You really believe that the attack on our ship the Liberty was not deliberate? You need to listen to what the surviving sailors and intelligence officers say about it. They were wounded and watched their fellow servicemen get killed in the attack. They are not liars and have not given false testimony. You should be standing by them. Thank you, thank you very much

You are talking about an attack on an American ship under a president who a few years before fabricated a story that one of our ships was attacked in Vietnam. I would not put it past Johnson to have convinced someone in the Isreali government that the USS Liberty was an enemy spy ship to get the Isreali's to attack it.....would you?

You are talking about an attack on an American ship under a president who a few years before fabricated a story that one of our ships was attacked in Vietnam. I would not put it past Johnson to have convinced someone in the Isreali government that the USS Liberty was an enemy spy ship to get the Isreali's to attack it.....would you?

Well robo you mean of course a few years later when the the "Bay of Tonkin" incident happened and we went to war in Nam.

Yes I do believe that LBJ had everything to do with the attack on our ship so as to give an excuse to launch an all out attack on Egypt by the US during the 67 War.

I had a good friend who was in the Navy at the time and witnessed the dry docking of the Liberty in our base in Malta and saw some bodies flush out of the gaping 30 ft hole in the ship with all the sea water when the boat was lifted up. He also talked to some of the surviving crew and he was convinced it was deliberate and he was mad as hell.

However the top leadership in the Israeli government and military had to be in on the plot of course passed down to the air force and navy personnel on a need to know basis.

This still would not be an excuse IMHO for doing what they did. LBJ however was capable of anything. There is strong evidence that LBJ had a three people killed in Texas to keep them from talking about his illegal activities and fraud before and after he was a Senator. Plus some say he is implicated in the JFK assassination. Need to watch Oliver Stone's "JFK" movie.

In any event over the history of the state of Israel we have always helped them with billions in aid every year and we have never received anything in return from them.

Thanks to them we also got involved with the war on radical Islam for at least the next century or more and it has cost us over a trillion dollars and thousands of lives with no end in site. That is my beef. We should cut our losses with Israel and look after our own interests. Thank you, thank you very much

"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."Sen. Barry Goldwater

Two current world leaders in their twenties, one is now the Prime Minister of Israel...

...I lose no sleep for the Israeli people.

(The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

Well robo you mean of course a few years later when the the "Bay of Tonkin" incident happened and we went to war in Nam.

Yes I do believe that LBJ had everything to do with the attack on our ship so as to give an excuse to launch an all out attack on Egypt by the US during the 67 War.

I had a good friend who was in the Navy at the time and witnessed the dry docking of the Liberty in our base in Malta and saw some bodies flush out of the gaping 30 ft hole in the ship with all the sea water when the boat was lifted up. He also talked to some of the surviving crew and he was convinced it was deliberate and he was mad as hell.

However the top leadership in the Israeli government and military had to be in on the plot of course passed down to the air force and navy personnel on a need to know basis.

This still would not be an excuse IMHO for doing what they did. LBJ however was capable of anything. There is strong evidence that LBJ had a three people killed in Texas to keep them from talking about his illegal activities and fraud before and after he was a Senator. Plus some say he is implicated in the JFK assassination. Need to watch Oliver Stone's "JFK" movie.

In any event over the history of the state of Israel we have always helped them with billions in aid every year and we have never received anything in return from them.

Thanks to them we also got involved with the war on radical Islam for at least the next century or more and it has cost us over a trillion dollars and thousands of lives with no end in site. That is my beef. We should cut our losses with Israel and look after our own interests. Thank you, thank you very much

So, if LBJ informed Isreal that the USS Liberty was not ours, but rather an enemy spy ship, does that not fit with all of the eyewitness accounting? Why would Isreal take such stupid measures as to do hours worth of flyby's with Isreali pilots reporting back that the ship sure looked American and then still attack us? The Isreali's are not stupid when it comes to military actions. Someone had to convince Isreal's higher ups that the USS Liberty was not what it appeared to be to get the Isreali pilots and subs to attack it so blatantly. Think, man....THINK!

So, if LBJ informed Isreal that the USS Liberty was not ours, but rather an enemy spy ship, does that not fit with all of the eyewitness accounting? Why would Isreal take such stupid measures as to do hours worth of flyby's with Isreali pilots reporting back that the ship sure looked American and then still attack us? The Isreali's are not stupid when it comes to military actions. Someone had to convince Isreal's higher ups that the USS Liberty was not what it appeared to be to get the Isreali pilots and subs to attack it so blatantly. Think, man....THINK!

Well robo this may have been the case or it could have been a joint collaboration with top Israeli officials to get the US involved in the 67 War with its Arab neighbors.

I tend to think that LBJ would not go it alone with out the blessings of Israel. One thing is for sure (after finding a couple of links below) LBJ was as devoted to Israel as any Zionist could ever be even though he wasn't a Jew.

His whole family was involved in pro Zionist causes starting with his grandfather taking up the cause of Leo Frank a Jew who was convicted in 1915 of assaulting and murdering a 13 year old White girl in a textile mill in Atlanta where he was a a manager. Leo was lynched after his sentence was commuted from death to life by the governor. LBJ himself was active in Jewish causes in the 30's onward.

So I would think he plotted with Israeli leaders to get us directly involved in the war. But I guess it could be argued that he acted on his own. I just don't believe it. Thank you, thank you very much

"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."Sen. Barry Goldwater

Well robo this may have been the case or it could have been a joint collaboration with top Israeli officials to get the US involved in the 67 War with its Arab neighbors.

I tend to think that LBJ would not go it alone with out the blessings of Israel. One thing is for sure (after finding a couple of links below) LBJ was as devoted to Israel as any Zionist could ever be even though he wasn't a Jew.

His whole family was involved in pro Zionist causes starting with his grandfather taking up the cause of Leo Frank a Jew who was convicted in 1915 of assaulting and murdering a 13 year old White girl in a textile mill in Atlanta where he was a a manager. Leo was lynched after his sentence was commuted from death to life by the governor. LBJ himself was active in Jewish causes in the 30's onward.

So I would think he plotted with Israeli leaders to get us directly involved in the war. But I guess it could be argued that he acted on his own. I just don't believe it. Thank you, thank you very much

We can "think" all we want. I prefer to base my conjections on logic of the circumstances rather than only what I want to believe. The logic of the circumstances tells us that there was a cover up for LBJ's trickery in an attempt to get the U.S. into the Middle East conflict. Isreal has never been prone to playing the sort of deceitful games that LBJ has played, and the attack on the USS Liberty has LBJ, not Isreal, written all over it.

Logic tells us that LBJ played Isreal and in the interest of national relations, Isreal went along with the cover up that there were miscommunications from both sides.

The point is, Glenn, you seem to be hell bent on demonizing Isreal by posting some of the most far right conspiracy theories you are able to find. All this tells us is that "you" want to believe that Isreal is bad and should be allowed to be taken over by Muslims.

We can "think" all we want. I prefer to base my conjections on logic of the circumstances rather than only what I want to believe. The logic of the circumstances tells us that there was a cover up for LBJ's trickery in an attempt to get the U.S. into the Middle East conflict. Isreal has never been prone to playing the sort of deceitful games that LBJ has played, and the attack on the USS Liberty has LBJ, not Isreal, written all over it.

Logic tells us that LBJ played Isreal and in the interest of national relations, Isreal went along with the cover up that there were miscommunications from both sides.

The point is, Glenn, you seem to be hell bent on demonizing Isreal by posting some of the most far right conspiracy theories you are able to find. All this tells us is that "you" want to believe that Isreal is bad and should be allowed to be taken over by Muslims.

Labeling something “logical” does not make it the most logical.

A ship that size flying our flag could not be misidentified by the pilots. They bombed it for hours at very close range. They would have seen the white faces of the sailors and their uniforms. It’s hard to fake all that.

To give Israel a full pass is illogical.

If you can’t imagine how incidents like this are swept under the rug to protect the image of Israel then what’s your take on “the dancing Israelis” on 911. Those guys were completely kept from public scrutiny.

......................................The point is, Glenn, you seem to be hell bent on demonizing Isreal by posting some of the most far right conspiracy theories you are able to find. All this tells us is that "you" want to believe that Isreal is bad and should be allowed to be taken over by Muslims.

Funny robo here I was cutting you some slack and allowing you your view without trashing it and saying that it could have happened that way but logic to me would be that LBJ didn't act alone because he would want to get a pat on the back from Israel if the ruse worked and the critical signal didn't get out to the Sixth Fleet just before communications were knocked out in the first strike.

If I just wanted to blast Israel and hope our mortal enemy Islam took over the country I wouldn't have told you about LBJ critical role in the affair but I only tell the whole truth as I know it and I never spin and tell half truths.

Now I could have used true anti Israeli web sites if I wanted to just attack Israel. I couldn't use liberal sites because LBJ is an icon, the holy one who started the modern welfare state and entitlements: AA, Food Stamps, 3rd world immigration, Medicare, the Great Society, etc. So I chose basic conservative if not right wing sites to dig up the truth and it gave a full account of LBJ role in this and lots of other nefarious deeds he is responsible for and they didn't go into Israel's role in this at all other than doing the actual bombing, strafing and torpedoing of the ship.

So while being "nice" to you and allowing you your point of view you insist in demonizing my beliefs. You are indeed a zealot robo and condemn all those who don't share your views. My view again is that we are their friends and we have paid over a trillion and thousands of lives for this with no end in site except possibly at least a projected century of war with the Satanic religion of radical Islam world wide. They have yet to show any gratitude for this as shown by the whole sordid spy affair with Jonathon Pollard.

And yes after all this I can and will still allow that LBJ could have acted alone but I think not because why did they knock out the communications on the first pass if they thought it was an "Egyptian" ship with an already destroyed air force.

Funny that you can not allow the same but you trash my motives with the ill logic that I want our mortal enemy and of civilization to take over Israel. Gees. First and foremost I'm a patriotic American and I'm concerned about our welfare first and foremost and the preservation of our Western Civilization and Culture. Thank you, thank you very much

Last edited by glennac; 11-24-2012 at 01:54 PM.

"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."Sen. Barry Goldwater

I don't understand what a bunch of Muslim terrorists and the Liberty go together...?

What I do know, though, is that if there were no Muslims in the world then the world terrorism would drop by 95%.

However, if Israel was eliminated I think Muslims would just find some other cause to blow themselves and others up over.

Promote world peace - kill a Muslim

Hey Ed lots of luck in killing off all the Muslims not that I would mind in the least at this point and that would reduce the world population by around 21%.

It would make a lot more since to keep fighting the Jihadists by what ever means necessary from the air preferably and then get Israel to try and get along with it's neighbors. Thank you, thank you very much

"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."Sen. Barry Goldwater