We'll see. China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis. If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

Mentat:We'll see. China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis. If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

Russia has said China is largely "in agreement" over Ukraine, after other world powers condemned Moscow for sending troops into the country.

I'm not saying it isn;t true but let's wait to hear what the Chinese actually have to say rather than through some Russian dude in Crimea.until China starts sending tanks into Crimea or Ukraine why does it really matter? China's influence is almost nil and they have very little interest there whether it's for or against Putin's lil adventure.

toraque:Mentat: We'll see. China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis. If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

Pff they'll steal Siberia or buy it for pennies from a broke ass Russia

Mark Ratner:So, what's the deal with Ukraine and Russia? Is something bad going to happen?

That depends. Are you in the Ukraine, in a former Soviet Bloc nation that is NOT part of NATO or the EU, or in a former Soviet Bloc nation in general? Then something bad is likely to happen. If you are anywhere else in the world, get ready for quite a bit of political bluster and a shortage on Russian vodka (and fossil fuels in Europe, if you're in the EU) but not a whole lot else.

Essentially Russia is going to turn Ukraine into an unofficial province/state of Russia again. As the Ukraine isn't a part of NATO or the EU, it's not likely to elicit the sort of response that saves Ukrainian independence. It might end up being time to get out the Cold War II: Nuclear Boogaloo gas masks and start fearing the Ruskie's again, until Russia collapses under its own corruption again. Wash, rinse, lather, repeat, tell our grandkids about the evil Ruskies and no matter how hot their women are, DO NOT STICK YOUR (BLANK) IN RUSSIAN.

toraque:Mentat: We'll see. China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis. If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

Yep. It wouldn't surprise me if China wanted that war. They'd be in a position to profit quite a bit both selling during the war and lending to the rebuilding effort once the dust settles.

toraque:Mentat: We'll see. China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis. If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this. Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.

The us should kick them out of the G8 and take economic sanctions against them. I know the couch generals want their war but after awhile the money will get disrupted and the Russians will withdraw. Nobody needs to die over this. Putin shot himself in the foot on this one.

Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship, so they are very vulnerable to being hit in the wallet. A return to the Cold War would be very bad for business within Russia, so at some point there will be pressure to de-escalate from within the business community because they are losing contracts and it is hurting their bottom line. Sanctions could help accelerate the process by brining the pain more quickly.

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo:toraque: Mentat: We'll see. China has always been very leery about encouraging independence movements and they hung Putin out to dry during the Georgia crisis. If the West pushes things, then we'll see how general the agreement is.

There's still a strong chance they'll support Russia, in a 'Why don't you go pick a fight with everybody, so we can quietly steal this bit of ocean over here while no one's looking' sort of way.

The Chinese HAVE TO support Russia on this. Any hint that democratic overthrow of authority might lead to positive change must be stomped out.

They have to be careful here. In the SC they're strictly non-interventionalist, and their statement there reflected this, IMO. Yes, they condemned how the current Ukrainian leadership came to power, but they also cautioned that both sides needed to stay out of what is an internal Ukrainian conflict.

What you'll see from China is a lot of talk, but no action. As long as Russia looks like it's just protecting its bases/transport routes, they'll let it slide. The moment they enter the rest of Ukraine, they'll lose Chinese vocal support, further isolating Russia.

If Russia succeeds, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc.

If Russia fails and weakens itself, China wins, as it will get a better idea on options concerning Taiwan, Spratly Islands, etc., and what not to do. And also a timetable on when and what to call Vladivostok since it's "traditional Chinese territories."

Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship, so they are very vulnerable to being hit in the wallet. A return to the Cold War would be very bad for business within Russia, so at some point there will be pressure to de-escalate from within the business community because they are losing contracts and it is hurting their bottom line. Sanctions could help accelerate the process by brining the pain more quickly.

But that doesn't fit the Fox News Dialog. It's easier to say "Russia bad!! Obama can't do nuttin bout it!!!" But if he did, he's then a war-monger, assassin who doesn't get Congressional Approval. Or something. I can't keep up with these kids.

Based on my skills with the board game risk, now that the Russians are occupied with a scuffle on their home turf, rather than try to resist them where they are strong, we should be diverting all of our energy into an invasion of Syria. It would force a decision from Putin: Ukraine or Syria, Sevestepol or Tartus. Either way they lose one.