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We are a normal, hard working, conservative couple with a child. We both have been tested before and we are monogomous. We don't get to go out a lot because we are always so busy. This past weekend we decided to get out and cut loose a bit. We ended up going to a swingers club out of curiousity where my wife and I had sex with each other in a room filled with other people having sex. There was a couple having sex next to us and my wife and the other female began touching each other. My wife then stopped having sex with me and the other female stopped having sex with her partner and my wife and her began to make out. There was no oral and no kissing. Just mainly touching. My wife sucked on her tits and she sucked on my wifes. My wife was masturbating herself and the other woman was doing the same to herself. The other woman then began to masturbate my wife and my wife began to masturbate her. Our concern arises from the fact that maybe the other woman had some of her own vaginal fluids or some of her partners semen on her fingers when she began to masturbate my wife. Also, my wife masturbated this woman and then masturbated herself again. We are concerned that some of this fluid may have come in contact with my wifes vagina. We have read all of the responses regarding mutual masturbation but most of them are either male/male or male/female. Is this another case of no risk mutual masturbation or is this something more. We are extremely nervous that we have messed up the wonderful life that we had by one stupid night of curiousity. We have vowed never to do this again and are hoping that we have dodged the bullet. We have read that HIV does not last long outside of the body but we are still nervous. We called the CDC and they gave us the usual run of the mill CYA "if fluids were exchanged then you are at risk" answer. What was the real risk from this incident? Are we talking about no risk here? Does this warrant testing? If a test is warranted would you recommend a PCR DNA test at 28 days. Please help us. We don't want to have to stress for the next 12 weeks before we she can get tested. We are also concerned that if she has it that it can be passed on to our young child while she is caring for him.

You are worrying needlessly and as Rod told you there is no need for testing.

What you do need to do is to read the lesson on HIV transmission on this site so that you are accurately down with the basics. There's a link to that thread in the Welcome thread which opens this section. Just make sure that if you are in this kind of sexual situation again that any insertive partners always wear a condom for intercourse, whether anal or vaginal.

There are other STDs out there which are much easier to acquire than HIV, so if you are going to continue exploring things sexually, it would be a good idea to regularly have a full STD panel done. Annually is good and every six months is even better.

Thank you for the response. It has helped ease our fears somewhat. I (husband) am more nervous about this than my wife is. She claims that they didn't do much and that she feels like everything is going to be ok. I, on the other hand, always fear the worst. There is no question about it that I have OCD and paranoia. I am scheduled to speak with a counseller on Wednesday night regarding that and I am hoping to get through this and get over this fear. I feel like an idiot because most hetero guys would be all excited about this encounter. I wish it had never happened. I just want to get my life back with my wife and child and put this whole incident behind us without having to worry about this encounter anymore. You mentioned the safe sex guidelines to me regarding if we get into this situation again. Don't worry about that because we are never going back to this lifestyle. The curiousity is no longer for us. We have learned our lesson and plan to keep our play between us and us only. I don't want to live through this pain again, ever. I want to believe what you are telling me and it makes sense but at the same time my mind keeps playing those slippery slope what if games. What if we are the first ones ever documented to get HIV this way? My mind keeps telling me that others probably have gotten it this way before but it was just attributed to something else (ie. unprotected intercourse or oral). I know that sounds crazy but it is what keeps playing over and over again in my crazy mind.

What are some of the reasons that you cannot get HIV this way? Is it because of the exposure to the environment or is it something else? I don't expect you to comment on someone elses comments from another website but Dr. Bob from thebody.com responded to our question as well and said that what was done would carry a minimal HIV risk and that he would recommend a test at 3 months to put our fears to ease. In my mind his definition of minimal and the need for a test and your definition of no risk and no need for a test is two totally different comments. Now I don't know who to trust. Believe me, I want to trust you guys.

Most likely the real problem here is my OCD and constant worrying. Like I said previously I am getting help to address that problem. We want to resume normal sexual relations with each other and pursue having another child in the future and right now I don't feel like we can do that without endangering our unborn child. I'm scared that we will never be able to have our life back the way it was before. Sorry for rambling on, just felt the need to post again and try and get some more reassurance. I (we) don't mean to be a bother. Thank you.

HIV doesnt get transmitted this way. It is transmitted INSIDE the body. It is very fragile and difficult to transmit in even the most hospitable of places, namely the rectum and vagina. It isnt transmitted by mutual masturbation as your wife has done.

Firstly because the HIV cells needed to infect are found WAY UP on the cervix. So your wifes hands would not have picked up HIV on her fingers because the HIV was never NEAR her fingers.

Secondly, the exposure to the air would significantly destabalize the virus. It is fragile and needs the proper environment to survive. This environment is INSIDE the body. Not on fingers.

You wont be the first. 75 million cases of HIV and not ONE from mutual masturbation, I PROMISE you won't be the first.

Science is our guide on this site. The science tells us you have no risk of HIV infection. You can resume normal sexual relations as soon as you get an all clear on other STD's if you feel you need to. My guess is you'll both be 100% in the clear.

Good luck. But you really dont have a risk for HIV in what you describe so luck really isnt needed this time!

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Thank you for your responses. Reading them has made me feel much better about our chances of not having HIV. That is until today. My wife has suddenly come down with a very bad cold sore. She has had them before but it has been a very long time since she has had one. I have been experiencing extreme dry mouth with a very bad taste. Now I know most likely what your answer is going to be but I just wanted to make sure. The only risk that we have had was the one that was mentioned in the original post. Could these symptoms be related to HIV or is it just coincidence since you have said already that we had a no risk incident and that testing isn't warranted. I know that my fears about this are most likely irrational and I was doing better until these "symptoms" came up. I have heard that dry mouth and cold sores can be caused by stress but I'm not sure about that. I want to believe that you guys are right and that you know what you are talking about but...well you know the rest. You guys have seen this all before. Rod, Andy, Ann, AC...if there is any insight that you could give me regarding this I would greatly appreciate it. I have tried to stay away from here and not post too much like I see others doing. I (we) are just wanting some reassurance of that this indeed was a no risk incident. Thank you.

I have herpes (aka cold sores) and I can tell you from 26 years of experience with it that stress can and WILL cause outbreaks. The worse the stress, the worse the outbreak. Stress will also cause dry-mouth.

You and your wife were in no risk of hiv whatsoever during this encounter. Mutual masturbation is not a risk for hiv infection no matter who is involved or what gender they are.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

This morning my wife has come down with a severe earache and head congestion. I'm assuming the answer that I'll get from you is the same and that this is in no way HIV or ARS related. It has been two weeks since our "incident" and every little thing that comes up makes me think of HIV all over again. Does here symptoms change your thinking on this or are you still standing by the fact that this was a no risk incident and that her earache and head congestion isn't a sign that she is seroconverting. Just a bit nervous here regarding what is going on. Thank you for your help.

Between now and the grave, hopefully many years from now for both you and your wife, she is very likely going to "come down" with a variety of physical ailments.

None of that will change the fact that as far as your current situation, HIV is simply not an issue. Except in your head. And that's a whole other situation but it doesn't change the HIV-science based reality of your situation which says HIV is not your problem. REALLY.

I know deep down inside that you guys are right. I'm assuming you guys are expert researchers in this field and have years of experience dealing with it. It's just trying to get my mind to accept the fact that it wasn't a risk. And it doesn't help that she hasn't been sick at all for over a year and then all of a sudden she becomes ill. But I do know that you guys are right. I really do. I just have to accept it. I appreciate your continued help. You guys are awesome. I am going to walk away from the computer for a while and try to do something productive. Once again, thank you.

just a quick question. I have now started to have moderate muscle pains in my left groin, leg, and in my middle back. Now I know (I hope) you are going to tell me that this is not related to HIV/ARS. Is it possible that these muscle pains are related to the stress that I have induced upon myself worrying needlessly about this incident? Just hoping trying to figure this all out. My wife and I both coming down with different symptoms two weeks after the incident seems very uncanny. But most likely it is just coincidence. I'm just trying to convince myself that it is all stress related. BTW, I'm seeing my mental health counselor again on Tuesday regarding my OCD and paranoia. I hope all of you are having a decent evening and thank you for all that you do.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts