Welcome

Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

there were many reason the French did not want to support us or appear to support us in our war in Iraq.1. France lives in fear of its moslem population2. Iraq was a large trading partner with Iraq, and of course one of the largest violators of the UN food or oil program.3. OIL. All Euros,Russians and Asians want the oil and if we are there,well you figure it out.4. Chirac thought by opposing US he could make France into Euros leader and regain some of its past stature.

For the millionth time, just about every Dem,including Clinton and Kerry said in the late 90s that Iraq had WMDs. The UN said it. All of Europe said it. It was convenient way to enter the war. Bush and his gang thought there was no way they could lose that one, every Dem had made speeches about Iraq WMD and the need to replace Saddam. What they didnt count on was the "poor memory" of US media. WMD wasnt the only reason Bush gave for going into Iraq, it was one of several. We went in to protect our interests. OIL. Without oil or if a lunatic like the little midget in Iran gets his mitts on it, the world economy shuts down. We have to be there to keep pressure on the dictators in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Bush has made many mistakes. He waited to long to attack Iraq because of moderates and appeasers in US,and he wasted valuable time trying to convince the UN and Euros of his plan.Bush,like Clinton before him,should have fired all political appointees from past administration,especially the two morons running the fbi and cia.He has tried to long for a political end to this war. Kill the fucking enemy and come home.

The difference between the Democrats and Republicans is the Democrats DID NOT go to war over their "assertions" of WMD. They would only have gone if it was a clear and present danger to the US. Which, thanks to Bush and his cronies, Iraq now IS. They would have done their homework and not gone off to war cause that mean ol man tried to kill their Dad.

Bush has the worst approval rating of any US President in History save for Truman and Nixon. And for good reason. He's got his very own Vietnam, you know, the war he TOTALLY dodged.

Unfortunately I see only one end to this War on Terror, and its going to be MASSIVE by the time we are done. It's going to take almost total annihilation of the enemy, like all wars do. Surgical strikes and limited wars will not win this globally. You have to wipe them out unfortunately or they keep coming back. Now I am not talking wiping out ALL the muslims. There was a quote on the Daily Show the other day that summed it up.

"I am a man who LOVES the German people, I don't want the entire German population to be wiped off the face of the Earth, but I sure would like it to happen to the Nazis. I feel the same way about radical Islamics and terrorists. I love the Arab people, and I want this cancer removed from them as much as the next man and as much as any true muslim." I'm paraphrasing.

But we will have to wipe out entire cities by the end of this thing and a majority population of several countries for them to get the message that the actions of a few will not be tolerated by the masses.

Just my ramblings.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 03:58:25 PM by ACinKC »

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

there were many reason the French did not want to support us or appear to support us in our war in Iraq.1. France lives in fear of its moslem population2. Iraq was a large trading partner with Iraq, and of course one of the largest violators of the UN food or oil program.3. OIL. All Euros,Russians and Asians want the oil and if we are there,well you figure it out.4. Chirac thought by opposing US he could make France into Euros leader and regain some of its past stature.

For the millionth time, just about every Dem,including Clinton and Kerry said in the late 90s that Iraq had WMDs. The UN said it. All of Europe said it. It was convenient way to enter the war. Bush and his gang thought there was no way they could lose that one, every Dem had made speeches about Iraq WMD and the need to replace Saddam. What they didnt count on was the "poor memory" of US media. WMD wasnt the only reason Bush gave for going into Iraq, it was one of several. We went in to protect our interests. OIL. Without oil or if a lunatic like the little midget in Iran gets his mitts on it, the world economy shuts down. We have to be there to keep pressure on the dictators in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Bush has made many mistakes. He waited to long to attack Iraq because of moderates and appeasers in US,and he wasted valuable time trying to convince the UN and Euros of his plan.Bush,like Clinton before him,should have fired all political appointees from past administration,especially the two morons running the fbi and cia.He has tried to long for a political end to this war. Kill the fucking enemy and come home.

Yep, we're the haters...another dose of history Jake style. Check your facts ol' boy, not every "dem" voted for your stupid war. You're not busy, why haven't you joined the war on terrorism?

there were many reason the French did not want to support us or appear to support us in our war in Iraq...

The biggest reason was the intelligence was faulty and they knew it. With the exception of the UK, the US coalition of the willing was a bunch of 2nd tier countries, hoping to curry some sort of favour with the USA. It should have been clear to the USA that when Canada and Mexico, the 2 countries with closest economic ties to the USA, didn't support Bush's adventurism that something stank. (If the 2 countries with the most to lose from a backlash don't back you something is wrong).

I see French voter turnout was 85%. Many in the USA don't seem to understand why the rest of us get tired of hearing lectures on democracy from a country where 1 in 2 people don't bother to vote.

Well...Hate to burst both your Bubbles, but wasn't it the French who put all those big medals around Jerry Lewis' neck? Neither post was funny or all that clever; smart enough to stay out of Iraq, but dumb enough to murder when blowing up a Greenpeace ship a couple decades back. Live and learn? We all need to. Nationality amounts to a hill of beans, in my book. And I do fly my flag on a couple holidays.

The French Socialist candidate lost after running a US-style Dukakis type campaign; CONTENTLESS! Watch Hillary try the same "love your momma" thing in the Democratic primaries, and she is certainly no dummy. Will the right-center parties do a better job in France? They probably have their own Karl Rove types. C'est la vie!

Bush has made many mistakes. He waited to long to attack Iraq because of moderates and appeasers in US,and he wasted valuable time trying to convince the UN and Euros of his plan.

Um, hello? Earth to Jack!

Is this thing on?

As you may not have noticed since Fox News isn't exactly the coin of the realm, IRAQ DIDN'T HAVE WMD. IRAQ barely had an army. Iraq had no Air Force. Iraq had no Navy. Iraq had no long range weapons. Iraq had no ties to al Qaida. Iraq was secular state. Iraq was contained and under sanctions for well over a decade.

Exactly what the hell are our men and women dying for over there?

Knowing the facts, how can you possibly say we "waited too long"? Waited too long for what? His non-existent WMD to grow more potent?

It doesn't matter what any democrat or republican THOUGHT, they were tragically and OBVIOUSLY wrong and that is a fact. Cope.

If you want to go die for the Iraq people, I'm sure Haliburton is hiring.

one reason the FRench turnout was so high compared to US is that the elections were on the weekend.

Why did waiting a year to go into Iraq hurt the US? It allowed Iraq and Saddam to develop a great rope-a-dope defense. As our troops made one of the most amazing fast attacks in the history of warfare, the Iraqi army just evaporated to fight another day. We spent a year trying to convince Europe and UN to join us, knowing all the time they wouldnt,but we had to because of idiotic media,who is convinced war should only be a reaction. Everyone with a brain knows why Europe and most UN members were not with us, MONEY!. They do business with Iraq and other mid east countries and did not want to mess them. Would the US support any country wanting to invade Saudi Arabia? Fuck no, they are our "friendly dictator" in the middle east and valuable trading partner. We buy their oil and they buy our bonds and stocks. Bush went this route to appease media,colin powell, and other moderates,wasting a entire year and telegraphing our every move to the enemy.

Yes, it appears the intel was wrong. But everyone was operating with the same intel for 15 years. WMD was a legitimate reason to go to war. Back then there was great fear of a suitcase nuke entering the US from Iraq via Russia black market through Al Quaeda. While Iraq had no direct involvement in 911 that we know of and no one in this administration has ever said they did, Al Quaeda was active in Iraq for years prior to 911 with the knowledge of SAddam. I think the real reason we went into Iraq was one that couldnt be sold to the public or media,protection of the worlds oil supply from Russia,Iran, and Al Quaeda and to pressure the Saudis,by our presence on their border,to crack down on their homegrown terror groups. To date this has been a success.

Knock on wood, we also have not had a terrorist attack on US soil since 911.

I hate this war as much as the next person. I am sick everytime I hear one of ours has been killed or crippled for life. Bush has done a horrible job of selling this war. You cant win a war if a majority of people at home are against it and the media is a bigger enemy than the terrorists. You have to have them on your side and that is Bushs fault. The President has to be able to sell his idea to the media and people. He also f+cked up selling reform of SS which was a crying shame. But he did touch the third rail. How do you sell free markets to socialists? You have be a bull shitter like REagan or Clinton. I hate using our soldiers for terrorist bomb targets. Do we ever kill any of them? The media never mentions it.

I think the triumph of Sarkozy proves how the left understands democracy and freedom. Loosing the elections seems to give them the right to destroy the center of Paris, burn hundreds of cars, phone cabins, etc. That is the way the left accepts the results of a democratic election. THe left only accepts democracy and feedom when they are the winners.I am glad Sarkozy won and I knew he would because the Spanish president supported Segolene (the left) and everything he touches becomes a shit.

I think the triumph of Sarkozy proves how the left understands democracy and freedom. Loosing the elections seems to give them the right to destroy the center of Paris, burn hundreds of cars, phone cabins, etc. That is the way the left accepts the results of a democratic election. THe left only accepts democracy and feedom when they are the winners.I am glad Sarkozy won and I knew he would because the Spanish president supported Segolene (the left) and everything he touches becomes a shit.

What a crock of shit.

All people on the left are brushed with a broad brush because how some far leftists in France behave?

If all the people on the left in France were as you describe them, there would have been a civil war considering 47% voted for the other candidate.

"As you may not have noticed since Fox News isn't exactly the coin of the realm, IRAQ DIDN'T HAVE WMD. IRAQ barely had an army. Iraq had no Air Force. Iraq had no Navy. Iraq had no long range weapons. Iraq had no ties to al Qaida. Iraq was secular state. Iraq was contained and under sanctions for well over a decade."

Facts, facts, facts.

This wasn't about the truth. Bush needed to go after somebody. They chose Iraq, because they thought it would be an easy win. They wanted to be seen strong on terroism, but they had no way of going for the perpetrators of 911.

It seems that are many who wish they had taken the French line of not supporting the war. The situation has turned and has turned and bit Bush and Blair on their arses.

"I think the triumph of Sarkozy proves how the left understands democracy and freedom. Loosing the elections seems to give them the right to destroy the center of Paris, burn hundreds of cars, phone cabins, etc. That is the way the left accepts the results of a democratic election. THe left only accepts democracy and feedom when they are the winners."

Maybe they were angry at Sarkozy spouting about immigration issues. In my mind, riots seem a measured response to his words of hate.

"one reason the FRench turnout was so high compared to US is that the elections were on the weekend."

Whatever way you look at it, the turnout was amazing. Perhaps other countries could learn from it. We might then get a situation where people engage with politics and really express their opinions.

one reason the FRench turnout was so high compared to US is that the elections were on the weekend.

Why did waiting a year to go into Iraq hurt the US? It allowed Iraq and Saddam to develop a great rope-a-dope defense. As our troops made one of the most amazing fast attacks in the history of warfare, the Iraqi army just evaporated to fight another day. We spent a year trying to convince Europe and UN to join us, knowing all the time they wouldnt,but we had to because of idiotic media,who is convinced war should only be a reaction. Everyone with a brain knows why Europe and most UN members were not with us, MONEY!. They do business with Iraq and other mid east countries and did not want to mess them. Would the US support any country wanting to invade Saudi Arabia? Fuck no, they are our "friendly dictator" in the middle east and valuable trading partner. We buy their oil and they buy our bonds and stocks. Bush went this route to appease media,colin powell, and other moderates,wasting a entire year and telegraphing our every move to the enemy.

Yes, it appears the intel was wrong. But everyone was operating with the same intel for 15 years. WMD was a legitimate reason to go to war. Back then there was great fear of a suitcase nuke entering the US from Iraq via Russia black market through Al Quaeda. While Iraq had no direct involvement in 911 that we know of and no one in this administration has ever said they did, Al Quaeda was active in Iraq for years prior to 911 with the knowledge of SAddam. I think the real reason we went into Iraq was one that couldnt be sold to the public or media,protection of the worlds oil supply from Russia,Iran, and Al Quaeda and to pressure the Saudis,by our presence on their border,to crack down on their homegrown terror groups. To date this has been a success.

Knock on wood, we also have not had a terrorist attack on US soil since 911.

I hate this war as much as the next person. I am sick everytime I hear one of ours has been killed or crippled for life. Bush has done a horrible job of selling this war. You cant win a war if a majority of people at home are against it and the media is a bigger enemy than the terrorists. You have to have them on your side and that is Bushs fault. The President has to be able to sell his idea to the media and people. He also f+cked up selling reform of SS which was a crying shame. But he did touch the third rail. How do you sell free markets to socialists? You have be a bull shitter like REagan or Clinton. I hate using our soldiers for terrorist bomb targets. Do we ever kill any of them? The media never mentions it.

Sweetheart, if a war is really justified, you don't have to sell it, the reasons are self-evident. This one wasn't.

And yes, there was plenty of evidence that our intel was less than accurate. The fact that Colin Powell had to plagiarize a school term paper from 9 years earlier is evidence of that alone. And of course the fact that inspectors were on the ground being allowed to go anywhere they wanted and still there were no WMD to be found was a big clue.

And the media never reporting on people we capture? Bullshit. We must have captured the number 2 guy in Iraq like 100 times and at least once a week there was a story about some sweep rounding up this or that group in this or that area of Iraq.

As to Saddam's army (such as it was), the US is the one that disbanded it and left them all to their own devices, unemployed and with a lot of anger.

As to the talking point about there not being a terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11, (never mind the Anthrax mailings), the same thing can be said for the period between February 1993 and September 2001. Over 8 years with no terrorist attack on US soil.

Perhaps if Bush had paid more attention to national security in his first 9 months considering he ignored the recommendations of the Hart-Rudman commission and several of his own PDB's instead of spending his time worrying about stem cells, tax cuts for the rich, and how to transfer our tax dollars to churches that don't pay taxes, (not to mention spending time at his "ranch" vacationing), those attacks on 9/11 might have been prevented.

Either way, we did the right thing going into Afghanistan and the French, Germans, Canadians and many others who didn't think getting involved in Iraq was a good idea joined us, and we left Afghanistan before the job was even close to being completed because Bush (Cheney) was so hot to invade Iraq for its imaginary crimes against the US.

There is no way you can spin Iraq well, we shouldn't have invaded. It wasn't a threat. Most of the world knew there was no real threat and if Iraq had made one move to expand it's borders the entire world would have descended on it like a plague of locusts. It was a waste and tragically, it wasn't even remotely necessary.

Another Milker thread heading toward the century mark. You sir, are amazing.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

In Spain elections are always on weekends so everybody can participate. It is not my case as I only have one weekend a month off. For that you always can vote through mail. I will vote for the right as always.

The French elections always happen on week-ends, and have seen a 60%-75% turn out in the previous years. This one was 85+%, which was very high. Overall, the turn out has always been higher than the US, I doubt it's week-end related, but who knows.

Yesterday's "riots" have nothing to do with what happened a couple of years ago. That was about 400 people in Paris, most likely non-voters, extreme left, who cannot understand anything else than violence and burning cars to express their opinion.

I haven't talked to my family and friends yet, so I am not sure of the overall climate. Reading the news online it seems that the left is swallowing its defeat but recognizes that the overall campain from Royale was a failure.

What will be interesting to see is how the 3rd generation north african immigrants will feel about this victory. They were the ones that Sarkozy called thud scum (Milker's attempt to translate "racaille") that should be cleaned with a Karcher (high pressure water system).

Overall I hope that people who do not agree with Sarkozy's general policies (I'm one of them) will step back, relax, and give him a chance. Rioting is not a form of democracy.

Of course the war wasnt evident. We still have idiots in US that think that terrorism started on 911. As far as Carousel saying we went after Iraq cause they would be an easy mark,who wouldnt? If we really wanted to destroy any country we could do it in a matter of days. But obviously we dont because we wentout of our way to spare civilians,unlike when we burnt both Japan and Germany to the the ground WW2. We won those wars by killing so many civilians they finally said enough is enough and surrendered.The enormity of hate here for the US is really amazing.I think the US vote should be on the weekend, because many people in US, who work, have a tough time getting to polls. I can understand why many here dont vote, no matter who you vote for, you get the same result. Nothing happens. Look at the last two presidents? One a governor of the most impoverished state and one of the smallest states in the country,and sounded like a southern con man, the other a freaking northeast liberal republican who happened to be born in texas and cant speak coherently. Both these guys sucked as President, but look who the choice was? You vote for Clinton or deadman Bob Dole? Fucking Clinton was more conservative than Dole. Or Ross Perot? A whacko. You vote Bush or a deadman named Kerry. No fucking choice either time. Or do you vote for a Warmer nutjob like Gore? Give us someone serious. No more bullshit.

The mistake Segolene made was accusing the right of being immoral with no arguments, just because people of the left think they are always in possesion of the truth for the simple reason of belonging to the left. The right always has to find reasons for whatever they do and give explenations because they are judged negatively while the left seems to be protected by some kind of misterious moral purity without having to give explanations of what they do and why. Belonging to the right means having always to apologize for whatever you do or say.I belong to the right and I have the same right to express myself without having to ask for permision and apologize. My moral is as good as everyone elses. That is democracy: freedom of thought.

Well, given that the French have hopefully settled on a system of government that works for them (five republics, two empires, and a couple of kings restored and then ousted for good measure since 1789... but who's counting?)... I always have to hold my breath when the French vote for fear of another constitutional crisis.

But, congratulations to M. Sarkozy... France's economy is rather moribund, and I'm glad to see he didn't go to that ecole d'administation that the French political elite have all attended. Some new blood might be good for them, perhaps.