k-9thinker

"Pits are not naturally people aggressive but they can be dog aggressive as this is the nature of the breed."

While I agree with this statement and also "Dog aggression is what makes a pit a pit" (spoken by pit bull breeders), why would anyone who truly cares about the welfare of dogs want to continue breeding dogs with this handicap? Dog aggression kills dogs in many ways. Dog aggression makes dogs much more difficult to place. Dog aggression sometimes kills neighborhod or housemate dogs. Frustrated dog aggression sometimes spills over to human aggression (when dog owners get bitten trying to save their victim dog or redirect their aggressor dog). When you breed dogs with this tendacy, DOGS suffer. Let's stop breeding dogs that are dog aggressive.

Every pit bull website states that most pits (every American Bulldog website states that most American Bulldogs) have some degree of dog aggression. Nobody wins in dog aggression in the community. The larger breeds also have the physical ability to kill other dogs; small breeds do not. Even if bully dogs only killed other dogs, why would any caring person want to keep breeding dog aggressive dogs? I volunteer with a dog rescue and the only dogs we placed as puppies that grew up to suddenly attack/kill their housemates were pit types/bully dogs. If it is illegal for me to rush up to your dog and repeatly stab it, why is it legal to breed and sell dogs who were bred for centuries to do essentially the same thing? Pit Bull Rescue Central recommends never leaving pits unsupervised with other dogs, as a little altercation can become a fight to the death. The dogs cannot help themselves; it is instinct. Let these abilities and tendencies gradually become extinct. Free mandatory spay/neuter microchipping for all pits/pit mixes, all dog aggresssive dogs. Everybody wins, especially dogs. This dog suffered too.

Every pit bull and American Bulldog website mentions that these breed types are commonly dog aggressive. Even if pits and American Bulldogs only maimed/killed other dogs and never bit humans, why would any thinking person, who cares about dog welfare, want to keep breeding dog-aggressive dogs? The answer is: they don't.

No, I do not advocate confiscation. But it will happen if you don't come up with solutions. As increased financial pressures are brought on communities everywhere, the animals will be the ones to suffer first.

I would rather be non-existent than suffering in the many ways that pits are currently suffering. As I said, you obviously think that their suffering, and the suffering that they cause, is fine.

I have a favorite breed. But I never advocate the ownership of "my" breed, as in my experience, most people are not capable of providing a good home for this type of dog. I don't own one of my favorite breed, as I only adopt what "life sends to me."
If my breed would become the "next pit bull," suffering in the horrible ways and numbers that pit bulls are currently suffering, I would want my favorite breed to become extinct, too. I'm not selfish.

Every pit bull website states that dog aggression is a common breed trait, with no training, and even with early socialization. Individual instinct may vary and training can modify behavior, but pit bulls start out with the skills that most other dogs don’t have.

If breed instinct never matters, if it is always "how they are raised and trained," let pit bulls become extinct and own another breed type. Raise/train it to be the dog you want. Which is it? Does breed/breed instinct matter, or doesn't it?

Yes, every dog can bite, but pit bulls are so "good" at mauling. They do NOT have to vicious, angry, mean to be good at tugging, shredding, crushing. It feels "good" to many pit bulls, just a retrieving feels "good" to retrievers. To compare other dog bites to the maulings of pit bulls is to compare corn snake bites to cobra bites. Both are bites but the results are very different.
Even if the pit bull promoters don't care about the victim neighbors taking a walk, or a neighbor raking his leaves, I still cannot understand why anyone, who truly loves dogs and wants them to have safe, long lives, would want the breed trait of dog aggression to be continued. Please, someone, explain that to me!
Dog aggression kills dogs.
Directly, as in the case of Hollywood, and countless other dogs
By displacing homeless dogs as the home is now not available to foster or adopt a 2nd dog.
By displacing dogs in pounds while the dog aggressive dogs wait for homes (that many never happen)
By displacing dogs in pounds while dogs caught attacking wait in quarantine to be killed
By giving dogs a "bad name," so uninformed people chose not to get a dog, since severe injury seems to occur unpredictably
By inciting first responders to shoot first. Police shootings of pit bulls are on the increase. Before pit bulls, almost all dog types would give warning before attacking; it was their instinct to try to avoid a fight. Dogs would stand their ground and growl, bark a warning bark, bark more, and rush and retreat, etc. Not pit bulls.
Pit bull websites say that one minute the dog might be waggy tailed, play bowing, goofy. The next minute in a serious crushing, mauling mood. They cannot help themselves. Surprise attacks gave the dog advantage in a dog fight. Spend some time on pit bull chat rooms, you will get an education about why so many people love their pit bull, because it will "finish the fight."

Did you read about the recent mauling of the boarding kennel operator? She had kindly taken in a stray pit, cared for it for almost 2 weeks, only to be horribly mauled one day. The photos showed a nice looking kennel, with a grassy play area, attached to the individual runs, where the attack took place. The pit bull obviously caught the kennel operator by surprise. When a passerby climbed the 6' fence to intervene, he stated that repeated blows (2 dozen.) with a baseball-bat-sized piece of wood to the dog's head did not stop the dog. http://www.omaha.com/article/20110603/NEWS01/706039953/22094

If I do not have the right to attack you on the street, knock you to the ground and make holes in you with a sharp object, or to enter your yard and stab your dog or you to death, why do you have the right to acquire/own a dog that was intentionally created and has the ability to excel at doing these things?

yes, dogcentric and k-9thinker (me) do try to educate the public. I notice you do not give any other solutions to the crisis.
Do you accept the current situation, where pits suffer horribly, die young, crowd shelters, freeze every winter, are beaten burned, hung, etc etc etc. Obviously you do, as you do offer anything to change this terrible situation. When I look at the faces of the pitties, kenneled, on death row for killing a person, I find it heartbreaking. Humans intentionally made them that way, and the pit bull promoters weirdly think that’s fine.
Dogcentric and I differ in that dogcentric excludes the purebred pit breeders from the mandatory free spay/neuter, I do not. My reasoning? I cannot find a single pit bull breeder website that states "we breed only dog friendly dogs"; many pit bull promoters obviously/tragically get vicarious pleasure from the idea that their dogs can shred other dogs.
I have yet to have any pit bull promoter give me an explanation for their justification for continuing to intentionally create dog aggressive dogs, and dogs that are so GOOD at mauling. A Chihuahua might really want to "rip you arm off”, but if the neighbor had owned nasty chi's, McSweeney of Florida would be alive today, with both arms.
Read pit bull rescue central. They are honest that pits do fight, without provocation and without stopping, and it is because of their instinct. When most dogs fight, it is self-limiting, as the fight is over when one submits. This normal dog trait was specifically removed in the breeding of pits, as they WANTED a good, long, fight.

It is never the dog's fault, as his can neither control his heritage nor his training nor confinement. But that means it is up to individuals and society to take steps to prevent these tragedies.

Questions to the pit bull promoters: Do you accept that pit bulls are severely injured or beaten to death, trying to make them release another dog? Do you accept that humans and other animals suffer horribly and disproportionately from pit bull type attacks? Does it bother you at all that dog aggression kills innocent dogs? What remedies do you suggest?

I have a right to own a pistol, but not a hand grenade. Pit bulls, with their obvious ability to escape, are like hand grenades on legs.

I have noticed that both pit bull promoters and pit bulls suffer from misdirected tenacity, neither want to let go once the fight has begun, even when it serves not good purpose. And it seems to me that both pit bulls and pit pushers are devoid of compassion for the victims, too!

It is never the dog's fault, as his can neither control his heritage nor his training nor confinement. But that means it is up to individuals and society to take steps to prevent these tragedies.

Questions to the pit bull promoters: Do you accept that pit bulls are severely injured or beaten to death, trying to make them release another dog? Do you accept that humans and other animals suffer horribly and disproportionately from pit bull type attacks? Does it bother you at all that dog aggression kills innocent dogs? What remedies do you suggest?

I have a right to own a pistol, but not a hand grenade. Pit bulls, with their obvious ability to escape, are like hand grenades on legs.

I have noticed that both pit bull promoters and pit bulls suffer from misdirected tenacity, neither want to let go once the fight has begun, even when it serves not good purpose. And it seems to me that both pit bulls and pit pushers are devoid of compassion for the victims, too!

Dogs, more than any other animal, have been specifically bred by humans to have different abilities and instincts. Pit bulls were specifically bred to be good at and to have the instinct (instinct means no training needed) to bite, tug, crush, shake, and maul another dog, without warning and without provocation. This information can be learned from reading pit bull websites and chat rooms.

Although not bred to specifically attack humans, they do not need to be. When the instinct to bite and tug "pops" into the dog's mind, and no dog is available, a human will obviously (as in this case) do.

Those who promote the breed specific adoption of pit bulls do everyone a disservice, including pit bulls themselves. Most humans are not capable of providing the care, training and confinement requirements that pit bulls require. Pits suffer disproportionately from severe abuse, neglect, abandonment, young death (euthanasia and otherwise) and cost individuals and communities in may ways. Pit bulls are often obtained for reasons other than companionship.

Every pit bull website states that dog aggression is a common breed instinct, even with early socialization. Pit bulls were bred for tenacity, the drive to continue trying to do something, which tragically includes the determination to escape in an effort to reach the "prey," and the tenacity to not stop attacking once the fight has begun. Several pit bull websites recommend that pit owners own and know how to use a breakstick, with which to pry the pit bull's mouth off the victim dog (or in this case, human). Those who think that pit bulls are “normal” dogs need to watch this
http://mreporter.ru/ReporterMessages%21viewReport.do?reportid=19908

How can anyone guarantee absolutely that their dog will never escape, not even once? How can anyone be certain they will never drop a leash, or permit their dog from pushing thru an open door, or that a child will never leave a gate open? One accidental escape can prove fatal to an passerby: innocent pet or human.

Now that dog fighting is illegal, no one benefits from these instincts, especially not the elderly, children or other dogs.

Most attacks are from dogs that have not had the benefits of spaying or neutering.

Free, mandatory spay/neuter/microchipping is the kind gradual solution to the many problems that surround this tragic breed. No responsible pit bull owner is punished, as their dogs are already spayed or neutered. If another dog is misidentified as a pit bull mix, no problem, as it gets a free spay, too. Let the horrible breed traits become extinct.

runswdogs wrote, in regards to the common instinct of pit bulls to be dog aggressive:

This is not a trait unique or special to the Pit. Most dogs, particularly of the same sex when housed together may eventually fight.

There are numerous breeds where unexplained aggression kicks in - see Springer Rage syndrome.
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I'm not talking about squabbling, my dogs do but they cannot hurt each other. They do not have the ability nor the determination to shred another dog. I am thankful and proud of their abilities to be social dogs! I never have to intervene as their squabbles are self limiting; when one submits the fight is over with no damage. This normal dog communication /skill was specifically bred out of pit bulls in order for them to be good fighting dogs. Working with dog adoption for many years, the only dogs we placed who went on to almost kill/kill dog housemates were two pit bull puppies, who were raised in homes with other dogs, socialized, but suddenly became “pit bulls”.

Read the pit bull websites. Most state that pits should never be left unattended, as there is no way to predict when the instinct to maul the other dog won't pop into the pit’s mind and there will be a fight to the death. Some pit websites state that ideally they could place all pits as only pets. This is tragic, as it limits the availability of homes for all dogs.

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I wasn't talking about mental illness (rage syndrome/ or idiopathic aggression), I was referring to breed instinct. Instinct means no training needed. We know what causes pit bull types to attack, it is their instinct to be good at it. Pit breeders seem to love that their dogs are dog aggressive. How many pit breeders (Staffie, Staff Bull, APBT) websites state that their dogs have no dog aggression? I can't find any. They all are proud that their dogs are the gladiators, the warriors of the dog world.

Dog aggression kills:
1) directly, as in poor Hollywood’s tragedy
2) by displacing homeless dogs, when dogs cannot live together
3) by displacing dogs in pounds, while dog aggressive dogs languish, under quarantine.
4) by making first responders more likely to shoot dogs. The knowledge that an adult human is at risk of being killed by a single dog makes police sometimes shoot first and wonder later.

Pits suffer disproportionately from severe abuse, neglect, abandonment, euthanasia and young death by other means. How is this acceptable?

I will believe that pit bull breeders are caring people when they add the FAULT of dog aggression to their breed standard and count it as a disqualification, not an admirable trait. I sense that pit bull breeders (show and backyard) all get vicarious pleasure that their dogs can shred another dog. This I learned by talking to pit bull owners and from visiting pit bull chat rooms.

Dog aggression is a pit bull instinct and skill. No one, who truly loves dogs and cares about their welfare and safety, wants dogs to have dog aggression.

Free, mandatory spay/neuter/microchipping of all pits and pit mixes. Let this unfortunate breed, that suffers so much and is the source of so much suffering, gradually become extinct. No responsible pit owner (or owner of a similar dog) is punished, as their dogs are already spayed/neutered.

Tragically, pit bulls have the instinct to kill other dogs. Instinct means no training needed. I feel badly for the pit too, as it was simply doing what humans bred it to do.

Read pit bull websites and pit bull chat rooms. A pit bull can be friends with another dog for YEARS and suddenly the instinct to bite and maul will kick in and there will be a fight, probably to the death. There are accounts where humans were able to stop a fight and soon the dogs were friends again, even licking each other's wounds. But the website warns that pit bulls will become "better" fighters each time their instinct kicks in. Some pit websites say that every pit ideally would be an only pet, because of this instinct. That's tragic!
An article from Omaha tells of a kennel owner would was mauled by a pit bull today. It had been in the kennel for several days or so; she tragically trusted it. It probably did not give warning before attacking, as "sneak attacks" are also a pit bull instinct. A passerby beat the dog with a large chunk of wood and it didn't stop the dog. The dog continued to attack until police arrive and tazered the dog.

Everyone suffers when these dog instincts are in our communities. Let them become extinct.

Dogs, more than any other species, were changed by humans to have different abilities and instincts. Instinct means that no training is needed. Individual amounts of instincts may vary and training may modify instincts, but the instincts are still in the breed.

EVERY single pit bull website states that dog aggression is a common breed instinct/trait, even when not encouraged and even when the dog receives early socialization. Pit bull breeder websites proudly call their breed the “gladiator” or “warrior” of the dog world.

Pit Bulls were bred to be good at killing other dogs. Why would anyone, who truly cares about the welfare and safety of dogs, want dog aggression to be an continuing instinct bred into dogs?

No human can guarantee that his pit bull will NEVER become a loose pit bull. Even one accident when a pit gets loose can result in a horrible fatality like this one.

The pit bull breed was specifically bred to not give warning before attacking. One minute the dog can be calm, wagging his tail happily, even snuggly, the next moment the instinct to bite, tug, shred pops into the dog's mind and he's tugging on another dog or possibly a human. This means it is impossible to accurately temperament test pit bull types.

The pit does NOT need to be vicious, angry or mean to be good at biting and tugging, any more than a beagle is vicious when chasing a rabbit.

Most dog fights, especially between dogs of similar size, are self limiting as the fight is over when one dog submits. This normal breed instinct was bred out of pit bulls. Some pit bull websites recommend that pit owners own and know how to use a "breakstick", a tool to pry their pit bull's mouth open, to free the other dog or the human.

The breed was created to not stop, even when the victim showed complete submission; to not stop even if severely injured. While they do not have a locking ratchet jaw mechanism, they do have the instinct to not let go when attacking.
Think that pit bulls are normal dogs? Watch this...
http://mreporter.ru/ReporterMessages%21viewReport.do?reportid=19908

Pit bulls suffer disproportionately from severe abuse, neglect, homelessness, euthanasia and death by other means. Everyone loses with this handicapped breed in our society. Free, mandatory spay/neuter/microchipping for all pit and pit types. No responsible pit bull owner is punished, as all caring, educated, responsible pit owners already have their dogs fixed. Let the breed gradually become extinct, for everyone's sake.