I guess I agree with you, but that depends on your definition of "trivial knowledge"

...I still don't like the sound of it though, I'd say kids know more about trivial stuff now than they did in the past, thanks, in part, to television, which fills your brain full of garbage and increases your zombie skills.

Last edited by darianluv on Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total

Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:42 pm

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

trivial knowledge is Eli Whitney and the cotton gin.

I will split a little from my point though to say, that it is imperitive for people to know how their government operates. There is something very wrong with how we teach government in our country. People should be taught their rights in this country, and how important it is to get out and vote. But at the same time, teach them how fucked up things are, ya know, cause otherwise they are just going to end up totally dejected.

Less time on non-functional or "trivial" facts like Eli Whitney and more time on functional knowledge like your rights and how your world operates.

I will split a little from my point though to say, that it is imperitive for people to know how their government operates. There is something very wrong with how we teach government in our country. People should be taught their rights in this country, and how important it is to get out and vote. But at the same time, teach them how fucked up things are, ya know, cause otherwise they are just going to end up totally dejected.

Less time on non-functional or "trivial" facts like Eli Whitney and more time on functional knowledge like your rights and how your world operates.

No, Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin, which refined cotton production to the point where it was profitable enough for Southerners to expand their slavery operations.

I'd say the technological invention that prompted the expansion of slavery's pretty important.

j-wha? You're going to have to explain why you said that. I used "and" to join Eli Whitney and the cotton gin for that exact reason you stated. So I'm a little lost as to why you felt the need to say "No" and then repeat me. but my guess is we had a misunderstanding of some sorts.

as far as your justification for it...well that's a tad silly. You can apply that exact same arguement to any point in history you want...you ever play that game...6 degrees of seperation of kevin bacon...it's kind of like that.

how does knowing that piece of information make you not an asshole?
I don't see the application of your knowledge of that piece of trivia. In fact, the importance, isn't that you know Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin--like nearly everyone else in our country--but the importance is that you know how to link it to cotton and then to slavery, and I would say there is some functionality in that ability to connect points in history, but in and of itself, knowing Eli Whitney invented the Cotton Gin is fairly unimportant.

This is a question of Quiz Bowl Champions vs. Ghandi.
Trivial Knowledge vs. Knowledge that is action, knowledge that does things.
I fail to see how knowing who Eli Whitney is, is at all usefull.

Sat Nov 02, 2002 10:49 pm

darianluv

Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350

I think the line between what is trivial and what is not can become a little fuzzy. things aren't just black and white. And its relative.

There is not much you can do with just knowing that things are fucked up and knowing how the government operates, Its having knowledge on what will and how to make it better. What is that? Knowledge and ideas and the ability to communicate it.

I think futuristxen has missed the point of the article, among other people.
Note also in the last paragraph of the essay he uses plural "generations"

Its funny you said knowledge doesn't pay your bills or put food on your table, because, in fact, it does, or can. And in my opinion, it can bring happiness.

Back in the day, if you weren't too busy trying to survive, there wasn't much to do except learn stuff. Nowadays its very easy to access knowledge, but there is a lot of other stuff people do to occupy thier minds.

Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:08 am

Dee

Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872

You guys are all idiots, because Eli Whitney didn't actually invent the cotton gin.

It was invented by one of his slaves, and he stole and patented the device.

Biatch!

Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:55 am

darianluv

Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350

Thats besides the point, but an interesting piece of trivia nonetheless.

Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:44 am

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

darianluv wrote:
I think futuristxen has missed the point of the article, among other people.

I think after re-reading it, that you are correct in this statement. I got thrown off because of the rather random assortment of things he asked the kids for his informal study.

I still don't really see this as something to worry about. His thesis is a pretty big generalization about america's youth. When he says generations he is talking about the generation of kids, and the generations to come in the future if we continue down the path. He is certainly not including what appears to be his generation in his assessment.
The fact that he calls on his generation to save what I guess would be my generation--not for us mind you, but for our kids--really strikes me as an age-ist position.

People have been saying from as far back as Plato about how fucked up the kids are.

The generation before us had Communism, we have terrorism. Everything is the same, and no one is special in regards to knowledge. Their are no keepers of the knowledge, there are no historical facts that we absolutely HAVE to know to live out our daily lives. As an individual I strive for the larger meanings of things, but i don't fault others for just going about their business. It's what 90 percent of the population has been doing for all of human existence.

I mean basically all he is saying is that the BIG TROUBLE with today and future generations unless we act, is that they are arrogant bastards who think they know everything when they really don't...the fact that he limits this assessment to the young un's irks me. And the fact he sees this as something new makes me almost irrate.
THIS IS NOT A NEW POINT. AND IT IS NOT LIMITED TO JUST THIS CROSS SECTION OF HUMAN EXISTENCE.
You don't think roman aristocracy didn't think it knew everything about this new religion called Christianity in the 2nd and 3rd centuries? You don't think the whiteman thought he knew better than the indian while he was wiping them out?

history is full of pig headed ignorance. and it's not something that is going to stop. there's too damn many of us, for us to pull together around some truth, because it would probably be a lie anyhow.

Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:58 am

darianluv

Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350

I can only speculate about the minor details and of his other beliefs, you'll need to ask the author to know for sure. As a main point I agree with him.

Of course ignorance and egoism have always existed, and of course you don't need to KNOW anything in order to live.

History, like all things in life, has its ups and downs, the point is to try to make it have more ups. Truely there will always be problems, but that doesn't mean its pointless to try to make things better.

This IS a problem. So what are you going to do about it? I would say it IS something to worry about, its something that we, as a society, have the ability to change.

If what this guy is saying about our generation is upsetting to you then do something about it.

Let the people that don't care be the peons they are, but I don't want them making decisions that affect me, i don't want them leading my country.

Sun Nov 03, 2002 3:32 am

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

I disagree about this being a problem society can fix. Yes, YOU can fix it on an individual level. Which is what I and you intend to do--yes. But for every person trying there are a million that aren't and don't care. Your ideals are pretty to look at, but they aren't worth a damn to anyone but yourself and possibly if you're lucky those people close to you.

I would rather spend my time trying to make a meaningful connection with another human being than waste my time worrying about why today's youth isn't supposedly up to the snuff of some imagined set of standards.

It just seems like a waste of time, and completely fruitless. oh...and impossible. that too.

I also don't clearly see what your proposed solution to this problem is, care to share?

Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:46 am

darianluv

Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350

Yo, even though I may not agree with you, I just want to say i can at least respect your opinion, I like discussing things, arguing is stupid.

I'm not saying the solution is an overnight type deal, but its something we can slowly improve upon through what we already know and building upon that.

learning and writing and making music brings me happiness, and so does fighting for lost causes.

I am going to do everything I can.

Sun Nov 03, 2002 5:07 am

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

darianluv wrote: Yo, even though I may not agree with you, I just want to say i can at least respect your opinion, I like discussing things, arguing is stupid.