I'll be importing it but it isn't really a statement on censorship - I get a large chunk of my games from the UK because I often get them faster and cheaper that way. Being the original version is sort of bonus but having seen the adult content, it's not really a big deal.

From a censorship perspective, it's adult content in a clearly marked adult game — if you don't like that, you can exercise your personal prerogative and not buy it.

Which is what I'll be doing but that's at the gist of what frustrates me: why all of a sudden is every major RPG game out there an "adult" game? That's the topic of another thread but I haven't started it yet because I'm not sure yet if its really worth it and if it would be any good.

More specific to this topic is I'm constantly hearing this drone about "censorship" as being somehow the greatest evil in the universe. This is not the first time I've heard these arguments and as much as they rails against "the man" and tries to claim artistic merit I can't help but read between the lines and play amateur psychologist over what I'm seeing. I'm sorry if I took too much liberty.

I don't think I can ever win the argument in one of these threads (there is one every month it seems in the NWN forums: ie: the 1.10 patch and the change in the Warlock in NWN2. I also get to hear it from the poor commie university students about once at week at my school.)

However, I mainly want to point out that there's another point of view on these matters and some people appreciate some sort of standard even if they are bit informal.

To me the adult contents of the Witcher seem fairly inconsequential. If I get the game it'll be whatever version the Swedish online retailers have in stock. From experience I know that I tend to become blind to graphical details of that sort pretty soon.

What amuses me is the inherent double standard in where the line between adult and ok is drawn, particularly when it comes to the fantasy genre. The genre is oozing with scantily clad woman and sexism to such an extent that getting hanged up on nipples seems rather absurd. I would for instance not think that the representation of the drow queen in the hordes of the underdark was made any more children friendly just because she covered her nipples, but that game wasnt barred from Walmart? Anyway the main reason for me to want less nudity in RPGs is that I like to look at realistic (or at least plausible) sets of armour and clothing, not that nipples or naked skin scare me

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
all I hear from this thread is "wahh, I want boobies"…
It is refreshing though to note that the US still has some standards. So does Germany it seems by correcting their initial rating on it.

I can't speak for others, but the reason I started this thread has nothing to do with me wanting 'boobies' or the game itself for that matter. If you do a search on my previous posts I have already expressed many of my doubts about the game; even if the designers have the best intentions, the result might not end up be good.

I have no trouble with rating boards either. Each country is free to rate their games, movies, books or whatever as they see fit.

What troubles me the most is censorship. This is a completely separate matter which has nothing to do with either content or rating. An uncensored X-rated movie may be nominated for or win an Oscar prize; Clockwork Orange, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Last Tango in Paris to name a few. If the makers of those gems had to worry of most theatres not showing their films because of the rating they might not have gone into the trouble of making them in the first place.

If the content is bad then it will be naturally rejected by the society as a whole. Which brings us to the game. Is the content in the Witcher that bad that Atari has decided to cut in order to trick their customers into buying it? Or is it good, in which case Atari simply deprives their customers from the experience? I really don't know. But the fact that a game gets censored and porn is not makes me want to defend the game.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
I also get to hear it from the poor commie university students about once at week at my school.

Out of curiosity, would you care to elaborate? Where I live (Europe, Greece) communists are a well-established minority represented in the parliament. Although I never voted for them it would be foolish for me not to acknowledge that they have made a number of positive contributions to the political scene. They are certainly not poor. Their leader had her children receive the most expensive education available (including sending at least one of them to the States, which can be very expensive for a European). As far as I know, communist parties exist in most countries. And, speaking of communism, censorship has been one of Stalin's main methods. As well as Hitler's.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
I'm sorry if I took too much liberty.

That's ok. I'm sure we all here understand that you're in an age that your view of the world is not yet fixed. It's only natural for you to fluctuate. Maybe you should not attempt playing The Witcher or any other adult-themed game until you are 'mature' enough.

— “Of all the journeys you will undertake in this life, uncovering the secrets you hide from yourself is the most dangerous voyage of all.” – Shyha Tuhlwin, Therish Philosopher

The version here in scandinavia will most likely be the "uncut" UK version, yes?
Well.. no matter.. I'll propably wait for a patch or two (always a good idea) and then order from play.com because it's so much cheaper.

Uncovered nipples? Yes, please.

And by the way… It'll propably take 15seconds for someone to release an "unofficial" patch that replaces a file or two from the euro version to the cencored version.. So no biggie. Just buy the damn game

Mhm..I don't have such problem - it will be uncut an exposed in the centre of our equivalent of Wall-marts beside of Mature rating (and I'm not talking only about the Witcher).

I think the point is that somebody else decide for you what you can watch. You have M rating on cover, you can read previews and rewievs, read what users say about the game, so you can decide if you wanna play it, I think you are able to create your own opinion is it in bad taste or accurate ect. So you're mature enough to pay taxes, to go to prison, to vote but not to decide on your own what you will be playing? There are people who knows better? I don't like when somebody tries to think for me.

* Consorted with devils.
* Committed arson.
* Burned some bratty teenagers to death ("they attacked me first").
* Mercilessly slaughtered and robbed a bunch of people who never did me any harm (lizardmen, cave, east of a certain inn).
* Practiced necromancy (I'm pretty sure I cast an Animate Dead somewhere in there).

And, of course, my alignment was Good and I got the Good ending.

And yet you hold NWN2 as an example of good, clean family fun, but you've got your knickers in a twist because, apparently, one version of The Witcher features (non-depicted) sex between consenting adults and the occasional exposed nipple?

Forgive me if I have a certain amount of difficulty in understanding your priorities.

Originally Posted by Zaleukos
Anyway the main reason for me to want less nudity in RPGs is that I like to look at realistic (or at least plausible) sets of armour and clothing, not that nipples or naked skin scare me

Hear hear. The chainmail bikini is really, really old by now.

Sex, profanity, violence, etc. should be powerful devices used to affect the audience. Constant titillation, constant profanity, and constant violence simply devalue them. What I'd really like to see is where people keep their clothes on when they belong on, take them off when they belong off, and only curse and kill when it actually means something.

Originally Posted by Lethal Weapon
But the fact that a game gets censored and porn is not makes me want to defend the game.

But porn isn't sold at Wal-mart or Ebgames is it? If a game is intended for ADULTS only, where can they sell it? An adult bookstore? I still say it's up to the parents to determine what their kids can and can't see. Password protected content in the game is the most obvious and easiest solution. But I am certainly not gonna let my kids watch porn. I MAY let them play the game uncensored. See the difference?

* Consorted with devils.
* Committed arson.
* Burned some bratty teenagers to death ("they attacked me first").
* Mercilessly slaughtered and robbed a bunch of people who never did me any harm (lizardmen, cave, east of a certain inn).
* Practiced necromancy (I'm pretty sure I cast an Animate Dead somewhere in there).

And, of course, my alignment was Good and I got the Good ending.

And yet you hold NWN2 as an example of good, clean family fun, but you've got your knickers in a twist because, apparently, one version of The Witcher features (non-depicted) sex between consenting adults and the occasional exposed nipple?

Forgive me if I have a certain amount of difficulty in understanding your priorities.

Well some of your points are silly. The reason I used it as an example is because its a good game and OE hasn't been afraid to try make it for a teen market.

Where does fear come into the picture? If anyone in this discussion is afraid of doing something, that would be the creators of The Witcher who's afraid of makeing an adult game (or if it's their publisher) since that might mean they'd lose the teen market (and therefore they censor their game)…

Talking about Obsidian as a dev with courage is a bit misdirected IMO, since OE didn't exactly take many risks with NWN 2. Especially not in the original campaign. Daring to make a game for teens isn't very daring in my book…

Übereil

— For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

Originally Posted by Icefire
But porn isn't sold at Wal-mart or Ebgames is it? If a game is intended for ADULTS only, where can they sell it? An adult bookstore? I still say it's up to the parents to determine what their kids can and can't see. Password protected content in the game is the most obvious and easiest solution. But I am certainly not gonna let my kids watch porn. I MAY let them play the game uncensored. See the difference?

In filmrenting store the videos with naked skin and som sex (i.e Basic instinct) are mixed with all the other films. Even porn films (BTW Witcher IS NOT PORN! theres a difference) are in the same space allthough they usually have their own shelfspace. Why should video games have different standards than video films?

It really still comes down to economics. Someone at Wal-Mart decided to get into the morality business (most likely in a proactive move against silly lawsuits—I think that policy came out shortly after Columbine, yes?) and that started the dominos falling. Now the entire industry is forced to play along. It's so much easier to slide down that hill than to climb back up, so I just don't see a major retailer reversing the trend any time soon.

— Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
Dallas Cowboys: Great Season! / / Detroit Red Wings: Another rollercoaster this year?

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
Well some of your points are silly. The reason I used it as an example is because its a good game and OE hasn't been afraid to try make it for a teen market.

Which points?

The thing that puzzles me is that I can't understand how you feel that a game with necromancy, demonology, and mass murder is less morally objectionable than one with (non-depicted) sex between consenting adults.

(Personally, I don't think *any* of these things, in a game, are particularly harmful for teens; most of 'em have no trouble distinguishing between fact and fiction.)

BTW, Lucky, did you play Mask of the Betrayer yet? You know, that NWN2 expansion where the core mechanic involves devouring immortal souls to sate the dark hunger lurking inside you? There's a really nice quest in there too; it involves forcibly combining a rich but corrupt and a poor but virtuous soul and using that as a bargaining chip with a couple of deranged pit fiends.