May I propose a prize, or at least a recognition to those who seem to trip over or hang up on some of the minor issues in this church? It could be an actual physical thing, such as a small bit of window screening. We could call it "The gnat-strainer Prize" (Matt. 23: 24), for those who let their faith be shaken by such trivia as Joseph Smith peeping into a stone in a hat, or President Uchtdorf claiming Guatemalans are children of Lehi. To save "Mormon Discussions" the trouble and expense of postage, we could just keep these bits of screen at your office, and those awarded the prize could drop by and pick them up. I'm sure they have lots of spare time on their hands. And, you know, you gotta think; did Christ use that metaphor because He knew there would be "gnats" arising, at least in the immature minds of those wrestling with the complexities of an eternal gospel?

_________________Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your libertyI can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at themwhat is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addamsIf you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent

Please can you provide a list of issues you consider non gnat-straining?

_________________“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

I would like to nominate Why Me's attempt to argue the "face just above the hat" vs "face in the hat" description for this prestigious award.

_________________"The lives we lead now are not dress rehearsals, they are the only performance we have. Therefore what matters is what we have here, the people we know and and love and the good we can do for the world"Sean Carroll

Please can you provide a list of issues you consider non gnat-straining?

I concur. We need a list of what are "minor" and major issues.

I would say that racism, sexism and unhealthy teachings on sexuality are major issues.

I would say that how many earrings a person wears and tattoo's are a minor issue.

What say you?

_________________~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~

Major issues are Joseph Smith's polygamy, blood atonement, racial folklore, unhealthy teaching on sexuality, and Book of Abraham. Once a person gets bitter and decides they hate the church then they might have a tendancy to start straining at gnats just for entertainment but those are not the real issues in their minds.

Major issues are Joseph Smith's polygamy, blood atonement, racial folklore, unhealthy teaching on sexuality, and Book of Abraham. Once a person gets bitter and decides they hate the church then they might have a tendancy to start straining at gnats just for entertainment but those are not the real issues in their minds.

I think this is pretty accurate, although I would throw out the word "bitter" and "hate." What also happens (in my mind anyway) is that some people go through a systematic breaking down of their belief system. So, whenever they come across another element to dissect it is one more straw on the camel's back, so to speak.

Death by a thousand cuts.

_________________~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~

Is the Church's treatment of its own history and controversies helpful in overcoming gnat straining or does the whitewashing and obfuscation actually propagate it amongst members with questions?

For example. Members who 'gnat strain' on the subject of how the Church uses funds could be helped in overcoming this problem by simply publishing the facts. The fact that they don't encourages people to question why they don't.

_________________“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

I think this is pretty accurate, although I would throw out the word "bitter" and "hate." What also happens (in my mind anyway) is that some people go through a systematic breaking down of their belief system. So, whenever they come across another element to dissect it is one more straw on the camel's back, so to speak.

_________________“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

Would the relationship of the KEP to the Book of Abraham be a minor issue or major issue? I mean as in comparison to the scroll translation problems themselves.

_________________"The lives we lead now are not dress rehearsals, they are the only performance we have. Therefore what matters is what we have here, the people we know and and love and the good we can do for the world"Sean Carroll

Would the attempt to distinguish between Joseph's Smith secular translations and sacred translations be a major issue or a minor one?

_________________"The lives we lead now are not dress rehearsals, they are the only performance we have. Therefore what matters is what we have here, the people we know and and love and the good we can do for the world"Sean Carroll

OK, I'm the bozo who suggested the "gnat strainer" award. Gotta admit it does my ego good. In any event, to paraphrase Joseph Smith (on gnats vs. camels; my interpretation and application, not his): "Jesus Christ and His atonement and resurrection are the only important things in our religion. All other things are appendages to the gospel." The original quote was much better, and definitive, but darned if I know where it is.

OK, I'm the bozo who suggested the "gnat strainer" award. Gotta admit it does my ego good. In any event, to paraphrase Joseph Smith (on gnats vs. camels; my interpretation and application, not his): "Jesus Christ and His atonement and resurrection are the only important things in our religion. All other things are appendages to the gospel." The original quote was much better, and definitive, but darned if I know where it is.

So the followings must, therefore, be unimportant in our religion:TithingWord of WisdomPriesthoodHome TeachingGodJoseph SmithThe ProphetTemple ordinancesThree of the four years of Seminary studyEtcEtc

_________________“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

OK, I'm the bozo who suggested the "gnat strainer" award. Gotta admit it does my ego good. In any event, to paraphrase Joseph Smith (on gnats vs. camels; my interpretation and application, not his): "Jesus Christ and His atonement and resurrection are the only important things in our religion. All other things are appendages to the gospel." The original quote was much better, and definitive, but darned if I know where it is.

For being the most important part, it seems to have been unemphasized until quite recently.

OK, I'm the bozo who suggested the "gnat strainer" award. Gotta admit it does my ego good. In any event, to paraphrase Joseph Smith (on gnats vs. camels; my interpretation and application, not his): "Jesus Christ and His atonement and resurrection are the only important things in our religion. All other things are appendages to the gospel." The original quote was much better, and definitive, but darned if I know where it is.

What is interesting is that I would never think that my appendages were unimportant. Without my arms I couldn't type this to you.

The appendages of the gospel are what make the LDS church the LDS church. And the LDS church claims to be led by Christ himself and be the One True and Living Church on the earth.

Sounds like the gnats are actually pretty important.

_________________~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~

_________________~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~

OK, I'm the bozo who suggested the "gnat strainer" award. Gotta admit it does my ego good. In any event, to paraphrase Joseph Smith (on gnats vs. camels; my interpretation and application, not his): "Jesus Christ and His atonement and resurrection are the only important things in our religion. All other things are appendages to the gospel." The original quote was much better, and definitive, but darned if I know where it is.

Thus, since anything extraneous to that would be a "gnat," it can be discarded, making Mormonism in general and the LDS Church in particular entirely superfluous and unnecessary.

In other words, those who are believing Latter-day Saints are swallowing a camel. Those who no longer trouble themselves with all of the "appendages"---that being everything distinctive about the LDS Church---are more focused on what really matters and therefore closer to Christ.