The Hogster wrote:After his last ACL injury, he just bounced back to put Baylor on the map, win the Heisman, and go #2 overall, breaking records, leading the Skins to the NFC East title, and winning ROY.

My money is on Robert

I think he'll bounce back but he can't go through this every few years.

One arguably selfish game and arguably selfish and extremely arguable immature press conference response amongst a see of highly intelligent selfless courageous and amazing leadership moments comments and games, gives me all the delicious orange crush I need to wash any bad taste out of my mouth. The overwhelming balance points to his easily being able to learn from this injury, too and come back (ahem) stronger, faster, wiser.

I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

emoses14 wrote:One arguably selfish game and arguably selfish and extremely arguable immature press conference response amongst a see of highly intelligent selfless courageous and amazing leadership moments comments and games, gives me all the delicious orange crush I need to wash any bad taste out of my mouth. The overwhelming balance points to his easily being able to learn from this injury, too and come back (ahem) stronger, faster, wiser.

There's nothing arguable about it, it was blatant.

All it took was ONE game to end his off-season.
All it took was ONE misleading "yes I'm ok" to stop his HC from putting in a more effective player.
All it took was ONE selfish moment to completely end the winning streak.
All it took was this ONE game to set him back in his progress. For all the great things he did, he still has deficiences as a pocket QB. And those were the things he needed to work on. So his ONE bad decision has a ripple effect well into the 2013/2014 season.

I judge people by their actions first and foremost. And despite his promises to protect himself better, when it comes down to it in the heat of the moment, he tends not to. I don't dislike him for it, but I dont' trust him to do it. And it's not just me. Shanahan doesn't trust him to protect himself either and that's evident in Mikes comments. Mike said something to the effect of, you grow together as a coach and player and it's a learning process. He was insinuating that he had learned to not give RGIII the benefit of the doubt when it comes to how he feels. And I wouldn't either at this point.

Considering our predicament with his injury and the salary cap issue, we have an uphill battle this year. But I'm fully confident that we'll be ok. And I wouldn't want to have any other QB in the league. I know he'll give it his all. But there is a trust issue there for me and apparently his coach. We'll get through this, but where would we be with a healthy RGIII is comfortable operating out of the pocket next year IN ADDITION to the pistol... We'd have a RGIII who's worth ethich would compel his WR's to come in during the offseason and develop even more chemistry. How would that have helped struggling players like Niles Paul, Briscoe or Hankerson...? I dunno, we dunno. But what we know is that our prized QB is on the shelf. That sucks.

The Hogster wrote:After his last ACL injury, he just bounced back to put Baylor on the map, win the Heisman, and go #2 overall, breaking records, leading the Skins to the NFC East title, and winning ROY.

My money is on Robert

I think he'll bounce back but he can't go through this every few years.

One arguably selfish game and arguably selfish and extremely arguable immature press conference response amongst a see of highly intelligent selfless courageous and amazing leadership moments comments and games, gives me all the delicious orange crush I need to wash any bad taste out of my mouth. The overwhelming balance points to his easily being able to learn from this injury, too and come back (ahem) stronger, faster, wiser.

+1

Jay Cutler came out of a playoff game for a knee injury - caught Hell. RGIII stays in like a hero--catches Hell. #FANS

Fans want to be pleased but will never be pleased unless whatever you do works. When it doesn't, then you gotta hear character shots.

The Hogster wrote:After his last ACL injury, he just bounced back to put Baylor on the map, win the Heisman, and go #2 overall, breaking records, leading the Skins to the NFC East title, and winning ROY.My money is on Robert

Me too

CLL wrote:I think he'll bounce back but he can't go through this every few years.

I think the kid has "seen the light"
he's obviously very bright and IF it's obvious to most of us, it's safe to say that he realizes the importance of being on the field and able to use all of his talents

I think that Mike & Bruce also "know" this and they are going to do everything they can to have this incredible talent on the field and helping the offense

We going to see a different RG3 this season and we're going to see a different way of 'handling' RG3 from both Mike and Kyle

Mike & RG3 are CERTAINLY going to be on the same page
I will be very surprised if Mike & Kyle do not come up with a lot of adaptions to the read option offense that take better advantage of all the weapons
PLUS trying to minimize the chances of having this kid running around

LOOK ... there is NO WAY that he's going to not get hit - that's what happens
RG3 HAS TO TAKE BETTER CARE OF HIMSELF and I believe he ABSOLUTELY knows that and will

P A T I E N C E - Scot & Jay's goal here is to make this franchise better - it will take time they understand the need to change to primarily building through the draft - plus have some luck go their way

The Hogster wrote:Jay Cutler came out of a playoff game for a knee injury - caught Hell. RGIII stays in like a hero--catches Hell. #FANS

Fans want to be pleased but will never be pleased unless whatever you do works. When it doesn't, then you gotta hear character shots.

While you're absolutely right, he was in a lose/lose situation. I can only speak for myself and I would NOT have had an issue with him leaving the game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jay left immediately after his injury. RGIII got injuried in the second quarter right? If he had shut it down at the half, after gutting it out for the 1st half. If he had given his team the chance to truly win the game. I think he would have been annoited Pope after that. Being aware enough to realize that you have now become a detriment to the team and putting someone else in position to carry the torch, that's selfessness, that's leadership. Maybe it's best that he didn't because DC would have imploded, we couldn't handle any more RGIII goodness. lol

emoses14 wrote:One arguably selfish game and arguably selfish and extremely arguable immature press conference response amongst a see of highly intelligent selfless courageous and amazing leadership moments comments and games, gives me all the delicious orange crush I need to wash any bad taste out of my mouth. The overwhelming balance points to his easily being able to learn from this injury, too and come back (ahem) stronger, faster, wiser.

There's nothing arguable about it, it was blatant.

All it took was ONE game to end his off-season.All it took was ONE misleading "yes I'm ok" to stop his HC from putting in a more effective player.All it took was ONE selfish moment to completely end the winning streak.All it took was this ONE game to set him back in his progress. For all the great things he did, he still has deficiences as a pocket QB. And those were the things he needed to work on. So his ONE bad decision has a ripple effect well into the 2013/2014 season.

I judge people by their actions first and foremost. And despite his promises to protect himself better, when it comes down to it in the heat of the moment, he tends not to. I don't dislike him for it, but I dont' trust him to do it. And it's not just me. Shanahan doesn't trust him to protect himself either and that's evident in Mikes comments. Mike said something to the effect of, you grow together as a coach and player and it's a learning process. He was insinuating that he had learned to not give RGIII the benefit of the doubt when it comes to how he feels. And I wouldn't either at this point.

Considering our predicament with his injury and the salary cap issue, we have an uphill battle this year. But I'm fully confident that we'll be ok. And I wouldn't want to have any other QB in the league. I know he'll give it his all. But there is a trust issue there for me and apparently his coach. We'll get through this, but where would we be with a healthy RGIII is comfortable operating out of the pocket next year IN ADDITION to the pistol... We'd have a RGIII who's worth ethich would compel his WR's to come in during the offseason and develop even more chemistry. How would that have helped struggling players like Niles Paul, Briscoe or Hankerson...? I dunno, we dunno. But what we know is that our prized QB is on the shelf. That sucks.

I'll start off by saying I'm not in total disagreement with you, just around the edges.

Clearly, it is arguable. Your key word is "one". A player, a leader, Griffin is not currently and will not be in the future defined by that one game, one misleading "yes I'm ok", one setback when taken against the sum total of his actions and words. I'm fairly confident that your view on the man is not really that myopic, CLL. You act as if his promises to protect himself better began and ended with that one game, one moment. He'll have plenty of chances to prove himself trustworthy to you and everyone else with respect to protecting himself. The essence of this line of argument is that RGIII isn't trustworthy and that is based on his having gotten hurt while trying his best, IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT, to do what he's always done, lead and win. If he were 7 years down the road having this problem, I'd quickly concede this point to you, but he isn't. Frankly, I find it far more comforting to have that kind of guy as a rookie and try and get him to learn when to protect himself and the team than to have a guy who knows how to protect himself, but not how to lead. The former seems eminently more teachable and ultimately more useful than the latter.

I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

emoses14 wrote:I'll start off by saying I'm not in total disagreement with you, just around the edges.

Same here.

emoses14 wrote:Griffin is not currently and will not be in the future defined by that one game

No.

emoses14 wrote:one misleading "yes I'm ok", one setback when taken against the sum total of his actions and words.

It's not just the "ok". It's his actions on the field. Doing spin moves, on one good leg to get an extra INCH?! I don't think it's intentional, I dont think he can help himself. It's instintive, he's just reacting out there.

emoses14 wrote:You act as if his promises to protect himself better began and ended with that one game, one moment.

No, it's more than just that one game. It's his inability to slide effectively. It's his propensity to hold onto the ball too long, to drag a play out when he can just throw it away. He always thinks he can make a play, that's great. But he has to be smarter about it or he won't last long.

emoses14 wrote:He'll have plenty of chances to prove himself trustworthy to you and everyone else with respect to protecting himself.

RGIII owes me nothing. These are just my thoughts. He does have to earn Mikes trust back and I dont think Mike will give him as much freedom moving forward.

emoses14 wrote: The essence of this line of argument is that RGIII isn't trustworthy

When it comes to his ability to accurately determine his health during the game, no he isn't. And most NFL players aren't, but if Bryan Kehl does it, nobody cares. If your RB does it, he's praised. Franchise QB's don't do that, they mean to much. They cost too much.

emoses14 wrote:Frankly, I find it far more comforting to have that kind of guy as a rookie and try and get him to learn when to protect himself and the team than to have a guy who knows how to protect himself, but not how to lead. The former seems eminently more teachable and ultimately more useful than the latter.

He better learn quick, because you're always one play away from injury. He can't afford to be set back like this. It is a setback. His work ethic makes us feel better about it. But that work ethic spent on rehab would be better spent on the progression of his game.

RGIII protecting himself was a hot topic ALL YEAR. It just isn't a one game thing. It was one game that was catastrophic.

On the Mike's trust point you made, I agree. I do though, see this as actually binding the two of them even closer together. Regardless of what their level of communication and trust was before this, going through that game and the rehab and what will be required to get back on the field is only going to make them better together.

He is a kid. A great kid, but just a kid. Because of how great a person, not a player, but a person, he appears to be, I simply think it highly likely that this entire exercise results in a meteoric elevation in his game.

I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

The Hogster wrote:Jay Cutler came out of a playoff game for a knee injury - caught Hell. RGIII stays in like a hero--catches Hell. #FANS

Fans want to be pleased but will never be pleased unless whatever you do works. When it doesn't, then you gotta hear character shots.

While you're absolutely right, he was in a lose/lose situation. I can only speak for myself and I would NOT have had an issue with him leaving the game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jay left immediately after his injury. RGIII got injuried in the second quarter right? If he had shut it down at the half, after gutting it out for the 1st half. If he had given his team the chance to truly win the game. I think he would have been annoited Pope after that. Being aware enough to realize that you have now become a detriment to the team and putting someone else in position to carry the torch, that's selfessness, that's leadership. Maybe it's best that he didn't because DC would have imploded, we couldn't handle any more RGIII goodness. lol

I hear you, but I think that decision falls on Shanahan rather than RGIII. I can't see any other hyper-competitive guy like him taking him out of the game. Jay Cutler not only didn't come back in the game, but he sat on the bike on the sideline and basically had that smug, sulking look on his face.

Griffin has got that Kobe, MJ, Adrian Peterson level of competitiveness where if you are alive and can move--you play. So, I give him a pass although it's obvious that he should have come out of the game probably after he didn't look better the 1st drive of the 3rd quarter. He's also young and his post game comments, after getting injured and losing a playoff game were made when emotions are running high. Heck, Tony Gonzalez damn near cried a retirement speech after their loss, and he just re-signed for 7 MIL a year.

As someone said earlier, RGIII has shown his character and selflessness so many times before, that he gets the benefit of the doubt. Every time during the year that he was asked about the ROY award for example, he said he'd vote for Alfred Morris. He's a class guy, but he's a Type A athlete where I think they all have an Ego that gets in the way of saying the gracious thing all the time.

The Hogster wrote:I hear you, but I think that decision falls on Shanahan rather than RGIII.

I can't really argue that. I actually agree. Ultimately it comes down to Mike. Speaking of which...

When it comes to quarterback Robert Griffin III convincing the Washington Redskins head coach whether he's healthy enough to go back into a game again, as Griffin did last season to his own detriment, Shanahan is going to be far more skeptical and vows to err on the side of caution going forward.

"It's part of the evaluation of people: When people say they're ready to go and maybe they're not, do you keep that in the back of your head? Sure," Shanahan said during Wednesday's NFC coaches breakfast at the NFL owners meetings.

Yes but, seriously, how long can anybody spend talking about Tyler Polumbus?

^^

P A T I E N C E - Scot & Jay's goal here is to make this franchise better - it will take time they understand the need to change to primarily building through the draft - plus have some luck go their way