In Tony's piece today he mentioned the miserable attendance for the Indians, and blamed it primarily on the old football town argument. While I don't disagree; Cleveland is a football town, I think the tide is turning. The city may be up for grabs now.

Don't base your opinion on what's on the sports talk shows. The NFL is king nationally now. They talk about what's easy. Baseball, without a salary cap, is more complicated.

Some factors here in Cleveland:1. The Browns have a great history. But it's your grandfathers history. The Browns left in 1995, and have been horrific ever since. There is no reason for anyone in this town, under age 21, to care about the Browns at all.

2. Due to their futility, CBS seems to be far more populated with orange seats than fans. Especially late in the season. No one wants to be associated with a loser. Especially in a salary capped sport where every team supposedly is equal.

3. Their recent draft may offer hope with another rebuild. But don't worry. The next rebuild will start in 2 years.

On the Indians side:1. The number 455 means something. It may have been the perfect storm, and perhaps never happen again. But it set a strong foundation that, while buried deep, still lasts today.

2. Unlike the Browns, the Indians occasionally are competitive.

3. Everybody owns Indians gear. The Browns - not so much.

I think the present situation is a result of trading CC, Lee, and Victor. When you break some fans hearts, sometimes they show it for years with their wallets.

First of all the economic situation in Football makes it easier for a guy to stay in town where in baseball few guys become the face of the franchise and stay that way. For me, I've not bought 1 piece of Browns (or any teams NFL gear since '95)....I moved away in '84 and used to be one of the biggest Browns fans around but I just cannot connect with the new team...Nor do I think I will ever give my heart to an NFL franchise after that move.

But I live 700 miles away and most of my sports budget goes into HS and HS age travel baseball. Anyway, yes Cleveland is a football town but the reality is that the city hasn't tasted a World Championship since '64. Cleveland fans just don't believe and that's the problem more than anything. Also when I lived in Ohio (Canton area), it was a 60 minute drive to Cleveland and well I didn't go unless the weather was good (if it was 60 degrees and looked like rain in Canton it was 40 degrees and raining at the old stadium) this attitude once cost me seeing Len Barker's perfect game but 60 minutes is a long ways to go for a rain out ball game.

Another big problem with a town really adoring to a team, is unlike in the NBA and NFL where it really is a stars league, MLB is a team game. Sure, you can have Albert Pujols in your lineup....but the guy bats 4-5 times a game, but has absolutely no affect on the other 25-35 at bats by the other teammates. On the flip side, in the NBA, the stars touch the ball on every offensive possession and are the focal point,.....and in the NBA if you have a star QB he touches the ball every offensive play and even a star RB can touch the ball on 40% of plays.....and a stud MLB or OLB can be involved on many plays on defense. It's just hard for fans in baseball to truly go for the names.

But, no matter what, this will always be a football town. Sure, the Browns are hurting some with attendance and have lost some fans. But while they may be losing a few fans every year, the Indians lose just as many or more every year.

GhostofTedCox wrote:Some factors here in Cleveland:1. The Browns have a great history. But it's your grandfathers history. The Browns left in 1995, and have been horrific ever since. There is no reason for anyone in this town, under age 21, to care about the Browns at all.

2. Due to their futility, CBS seems to be far more populated with orange seats than fans. Especially late in the season. No one wants to be associated with a loser. Especially in a salary capped sport where every team supposedly is equal.

3. Their recent draft may offer hope with another rebuild. But don't worry. The next rebuild will start in 2 years.

On the Indians side:1. The number 455 means something. It may have been the perfect storm, and perhaps never happen again. But it set a strong foundation that, while buried deep, still lasts today.

2. Unlike the Browns, the Indians occasionally are competitive.

3. Everybody owns Indians gear. The Browns - not so much.

Strongly disagree with point 1 on your Browns part and 3 on your Indians side.

High School football is huge in Ohio. Ok, maybe not Texas huge, but newborn boys are still given a footballs in places like Massillon. Football Hall of Fame is still in Canton too. Huge football hotbeds in Cleveland, Canton, Columbus, and Cincy.

Baseball....sure there are some areas that are big on it but football is Ohio's sport from the cradle to the grave. Browns are benefits of this.

Doesn't matter what bum the Browns draft, fans will go out and buy the jersey. Can't believe how many people bought Quinn and Colt jerseys before the EVEN STARTED A GAME. You will never get that with an Indians player. I'd bet a lot of money that more people in NEO own Browns gear than Indians gear.

Cleveland is a football town. Even though the Browns has been pitiful really in their return to Cleveland, everyone loves the Browns. And rightfully so, they are one of the most iconic football teams in the NFL. If they actually start winning, they'll be the darlings of ESPN etc.... A Browns superbowl win would be epic, as any football fan would admit on some level.

In addition - there are very few complete pro football events at home, while there are 80ish baseball games at home. Not a priority for many a casual fan as they rather wait to jump on the bandwagon. These are Cleveland fans/residents after all and they won't be fooled again. Wait for the fireworks.

Bandwagon = the tribe just keeps on chugging, and winning games. Come the 1st day of the summer if they are STILL in 1st place :) attendence won't be such an issue and a play-off team come mid-August starts packing the house. Up to the team for now, as winning will obviously improve attendence.

The Brand Keys Loyalty Sports Fan Index helps professional sports teams identify precise fan loyalty rankings , in their own market and nationally. They use criteria such as pure entertainment, authenticity, fan bonding, and history and tradition.

In the NFL, the Browns are ranked 31 out of 32 teams.

Complete MLB rankings were not listed. But the Indians were not listed in the top or bottom 5.