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Friday, 8 July 2011

Fafnir's Bitches and 40k-metrics

So Bully has been hassling me to get my Brighton Warlords 1750 Tournament list up on the blog.

Think he is worried about the dirty tricks I will bring to the tabletop.
He doesn’t need to be.
I’m playing plain and simple.
I’ve decided against Dark Eldar as I have already stated due to not wanting to paint and texture my flying bases in order to get 7 points for Basing – I like them to blend into whatever surface I am playing on..
This is not an issue, lets not make it one.
I play tested a LOAD of different armies before deciding to stick to what I know arguably best – Space Wolves; Fafnir’s Bitches return for another campaign….
They play themselves right? I don’t even need to turn up? Just press ‘go’ at the start of each game and it takes care of itself.. lol
I’ve been play testing so many armies that I’ve not actually gotten around to finishing building or painting them all, so I’m kind of screwed on these fronts (this is the secret reason for SW…they are already painted!!).

So here you go – the list (notes and Nikephoros’ 40k-metrics system applied below…)

Rune Priest – Living Lightning, Jaws

Wolf Guard Pack 1 x 10 – 2 x TDA/CML, 3 x CMelta/Power weapon

Wolf Guard Pack 2 x 10 – 2 x TDA/CML, 2 x CMelta, 1 x CPlasma

Wolf Scouts x 5 – Meltagun

Grey Hunters x 7, Meltagun, Banner, Rhino

Grey Hunters x 7, Meltagun, Banner, Rhino

Grey Hunters x 7, Meltagun, Banner, Rhino

Grey Hunters x 7, Meltagun, Banner, Rhino

Long Fangs x 5 – 4 Missile Launchers

Long Fangs x 5 – 4 Missile Launchers

Long Fangs x 5 – 4 Missile Launchers

1750

Traditional Numbers?
20 S8 shots per turn at a possible 8 targets
5 double melta units
69 Marines,,,nuff said?
Psychic Defence
Good CC
Plenty of anti horde either through 20 blast templates or the 40 midfield marines, holy bolt and ferocious charges...Notes:
Wolf Guard – The 3 CM/PW plus one of the CM only WG join the 4 GH packs, the other CM WG joins the Scouts…2 plain WG from Pack 2 join Long Fangs as bullet catchers, leaving 6 dudes, 1 plain WG from Pack 1 joins 3rd LF squad, leaving 6 dudes in the WG pack as well.
The 2 CML packs then follow closely behind the Rhino’s, providing mobile light anti-tank and counter attack punch, remembering that both packs have 2 Power weapons on the terminators…
Yes, there is a random Combi-plasma dude in one of the WG squads… I have some really strong urges to lose a couple of power weapons in the GH’s and give both WG some dedicated plasma love..knowing just how many marine armies there will be I am really tempted..

As it stands this force has performed well in a couple of test games, but I have not had time to test much…so I thought I’d try out some numbers, not the usual mathhammer, but the 40k-metrics that Nikephoros has been playing around with.
If you are not sure what I’m on about, check it out here.

The numbers work out pretty favourably:

Fafnir’s Bitches 1750:

DMS: 26.5

DMCC: 23.44

DRG: 54.65

DLRG: 11.9

Now this doesn’t do too badly when compared to the 4-0 NOVA SW forces, some are far superior though, particularly Stelek’s. His numbers are:

Andrew “Stelek” Sutton (Space Wolves)

DMS: 25.05

DMCC: 24.82

DRPG: 64.80

DLRPG: 19.27

Glaring differences, His DRPG (Dead Rhino Per Game – actually deceptive as it is uncovered penetrations in fact) is 10 higher than my own. In addition, his DLRPG (Dead Land Raider Per Game) is also massively greater. Nikephoros has stated (back in June archive on his blog) that this is the one area that you can afford to be weaker as long as it is made up over time. I’m ok with my heavy anti tank, I can suppress a lot of heavy tank armour, and have 5 melta units to do the heavy lifting…but seriously, Stelek’s NOVA Wolves had almost double the anti-LR that I have..

I have more bodies on the ground, therefore it is fair enough that I have a slight edge on the DMS (Dead Marine from Shooting), but due to the increased numbers of PWeapons and TWC inc. WGBL, his list has greater output in CC, despite the increased number of marines I can bring to bear.

THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO CONSIDER IS THAT THE NOVA WAS A 2K EVENT, THIS IS A 1750 LIST….

So what does this actually mean? Well, from Nikephoros’ work we can see that it compares very favourably considering the 250 points ‘penalty’ … this simply means that it is likely to be a good army..lol

Do I need these numbers to tell me this? Probably not. Is it just an extra tool for list building? Yup, pretty much…it was an interesting exercise that only took a few minutes, I suggest you guys have a read and try it with the lists you are running now..

As for me, I’ve no time for more testing, unbelievably I have to build more Space Wolves for this list, but then there are 70 marines…I am also determined to get grenades, CC weapons, bolt pistols, boltguns etc on all the models to ensure I can get WYSIWYG points.. that my friends is a true mission..

26 comments:

Space Wolves... yaaaawn! Decent list albeit not being overly exciting. My biggest concern - mobility. You only have 4 rhinos and they go quickly. At which point you're a SW foot list, which is better done with Logan.

Lol, "used" to be cool- awww man, so it isn't so, I'm still cool right? Agreed on mobility, I think I've tried to do two things:1) over compensate for grey knights demeching ability by removing the mech2) overload DE poison by providing multiple missile units, I'm aware of the popular de builds and the poison output, I am confident they can't gun down five missile units in a turn..meaning I can still operate at nearly normal missile capacity due to the increased starting number...anyway. That's my semi-justification...

Well they'll be "supported" by the GH's with banners et al - something not to be sniffed at. Going to smash decidated CC units? Prob not, but pair it with plenty of shooting before hand, pop a banner and run in, pretty potent.

Some of the time things like power weapons will just scare people off from tarpitting (for example, the way I use my ravenwing bikers).

They'll not function as a cc unit per se, but as a counter attack unit I think they'll serve...and yeah, they'll be run forward behind rhinos...it just provides a secondary function. As Bull states, they'll be well supported...

Bully... I think it's more about who is going to make it into CC with tanks rather than how good you are at boshing them up. Do you think every unit will make it to the point where CC'ing tanks will be important... and with your speed (or lack of it :P) how many turns of CC are they like to get?

Well the idea is given best circumstances isn't it. For example a unit of GH is given it's score based on 5 turns of rapid fire and 5 turns of charges which can never happen. Melta is based on 5 turns as well - how many times have you shot a attack bike at a raider in a game on consecutive turns!! Better yet fangs - missile launchers can't fire both rounds but count to the score.

It's just given best circumstances. I sure we can think of a few more but that's not the point :D

In the blurb though Nike does say units that are clearly good at AT eg mCs etc. Same question applies I am sure.

@nike...hey, I personally haven't even bothered, despite the reasonably high likelihood of scouts dropping kraks on static gunline vehicles, nor on the gh's who are normally well placed to hit transports midfield as part of their usual tussle...

Regarding DW CC vs armour, id probably run the numbers based on estimated casualties by the time (game turn) they get to hammer vehicles? Turn 3/4, more likley 4 on average, taking DoW into consideration, but then spearhead could counter that..how many dudes die over 3 turns of sustained fire? A third to half depending on opposing force? So the cc vs av figs should be run on that imho...

@bully, the numbers for DMS/DMCC are per round/turn, not all game, you then add the scores from the number of units, this assumes they'll get in one optimal charge and/or one optimal round of shooting before their ability to act is negatively impacted. On the otherhand, there is the potential for gh melta to be firing for multiple turns...

Not only are we guaranteed to play MEQ next week, but I think we can factor Gk's in this now as well lol.

@ven sorry I was mixing up the points a bit. Shooting @ tanks is per game and infantry (S and CC) is per turn, but still it factors in doing both for the score. Don't want to get side tracked on this, but back to the original point, can TH/SS (25 no less) be counted towards a anti-tank?

"What I’m getting at was those lists were meaningless without a benchmark." - so its just benchmark scores in optimal situations. Nice and easy. No in game dynamics factor, we can go down this route, but I am sure we can think of a lot more than "would you get the charge".

Plenty of other quotes in the original post using "assuming" and "optimal" a lot - but final point, can 25 TH/SS count towards the score?

To paraphrase:

"Normally, this is a shooting only category ... certain melee unitshey are incredibly dangerous vehicles ... A unit of Nobs with Power Klaws"

That is shortened, but gets the point across I guess.

I like the system. It was interesting the scores I got, while almost certainly wrong, they weren't far off and made me think a bit

Ahh well, lets stop it there before I go off into an essay. Excuse any mistakes above as well I am also on the phone working (my first post shows men can multitask - iphone post while half asleep calling my client haha!)

Haha, yeah the TH/SS DO most definately count, and have an amazing potential to wreck vehicles.

But it is limited in the system to 15max per unit

So the following... 5 DW on charge - 15 attacks. Lets keep it relevant so half hit assuming up to 6" move - 7.5 S8 so 66% chance of penetrating, 4.95 dead "rhinos" per game turn, per unit.It takes 3 results to actually kill it (its 1/3 of results), but that is not part of the system.. So your DW units have a whopping 24.75 DRPG score, per unit...Giving the army a humoungous (SP please Bob?) 123.75...double Stelek's 2k Nova DRPG score..

BUT...it is limited to keep it relevant to 15 per unit.. so the score is in fact - 75 DRPG

Oh and that doesn't factor in the meltas from 2 Bike units, or the extra attacks for one unit per banner...

See the opening sentance in this post...amazing potential..

However, the reality is far different...by your own admission Bully..charges vs vehicles? T3 onwards? Losing 40% of that score. By then you lose how many missiles and how many hammers?

So the system is very good at giving us an indication that the damage to certain unit types is incredible/average/shit... BUT we all know that the tabletop application is very different..You'll certainly never get the opportunity to assault from Turn 1 AND have 75 rhino hulls to kill in 5 turns! lol

Right I have this unit .. does it do what I need? Does it provide what my list needs/lacks etc.. Brilliant for that.

Like we're saying, while I might not get those charges, are you going to put your rhino 12" away from my squad? No, but does that mean that I am stopping you do something beneficial because of that? Can be - its quite interesting because it also demonstrates that perceived threat - and while its a 2 way street (requires opponent to acknowledge said threat) - its reasonable to work off it.

As for early charges - apart from pods - I've had T1 bike charges (mwhaha melta in effect BOY!) T2 mutlicharges have happened as well ;D

Put it this way - I'll use it when making my sisters army though - and probably the DE or Nid army that I end up making now I'm not re-doing the Deathwing ;D