Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball

How scary is it that "a few years" is now... 16 years ago? Unbelievable. Was it his junior or senior year that he emerged as a solid shooter off the bench? He was 6'7, Pekarek a bit more stretch at 6'10, but I see the comp.

He only played 3 years. They lobbied for a 4the year but were denied. Something about some league he played in in Belarus which was considered semi-pro, so it cost him a year.

Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports. Nothing. That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter. It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State

I wonder if fans at St. Mary's feel the same way about the foreign players. I agree with you that overall recruiting has to get better, but it does not matter where they come from.

Additionally, Evans is from the US, he was signed this off-season. One of our transfers is from the US. Last season we signed Ohams and Hicks from the US.

I am aware that we have US players and I am all fora players from everywhere (got that Richie). I was simply stating that it seems that we are heading to foreign country to fill out several roster spots as of lately. Other than St.Mary's we are probably one of the few college teams that have a significant representation of foreign players.

Yes I acre about winning too, but if we are primarily relying on foreign talent it just seems a bit concerning as to the reasons:Does that mean that we cant find much strong talent in the US?Are US players enamored with facilities and the future Frank da Tank Family Court not live up to their expectations?Ton does like to recruit overseas, which is great, but can he recruit well in the US too?

Simply stating that we seem to be placing an emphasis on foreign players and was curious to know hwy this is happening.

As for the ladies team, yes they do have foreign players but to say this is the way it is done nowadays is ridiculous. It may be how it is done at Fordham lately but go check the rosters of other schools and tell me that we are not are and/or becoming the minority with fewer US players.

Just noticing a trend here and wandering as to why, nothing more nothing less.

1. Fordham historically did a lot of recruiting out of NYC area high schools, and it seems that the talent levels there have dropped, for demographic and other reasons. Even Tom Pecora, who'd made his bones on recruiting the City and environs, found himself going outside the immediate area for recruits (Rochester, Boston, Montreal, to name a few destinations). And, for the talent remaining in NYC area high schools, the pool is being extensively fished.

2. A lot of the elite players get siphoned off into prep schools (a goodly number of them in New Jersey) where we haven't historically had much clout (despite having some alumni in these schools' coaching ranks).

3. We are disfavored by academic pressures, recent low success levels, and (dare I say) facilities issues. These are well known among area players, and are used by a lot of rival coaches as "oppo".

4. Our current head coach and his assistants did not have a profile of recruiting the area in the years before coming to Rose Hill. Mike DePaoli is young. We might be suffering a "fish out of water" phenomenon, to some extent.

5. Factors 1 through 4 are greatly diminished, if not eliminated altogether, when we go after foreign recruits.

1. Fordham historically did a lot of recruiting out of NYC area high schools, and it seems that the talent levels there have dropped, for demographic and other reasons. Even Tom Pecora, who'd made his bones on recruiting the City and environs, found himself going outside the immediate area for recruits (Rochester, Boston, Montreal, to name a few destinations). And, for the talent remaining in NYC area high schools, the pool is being extensively fished.

2. A lot of the elite players get siphoned off into prep schools (a goodly number of them in New Jersey) where we haven't historically had much clout (despite having some alumni in these schools' coaching ranks).

3. We are disfavored by academic pressures, recent low success levels, and (dare I say) facilities issues. These are well known among area players, and are used by a lot of rival coaches as "oppo".

4. Our current head coach and his assistants did not have a profile of recruiting the area in the years before coming to Rose Hill. Mike DePaoli is young. We might be suffering a "fish out of water" phenomenon, to some extent.

5. Factors 1 through 4 are greatly diminished, if not eliminated altogether, when we go after foreign recruits.

#3 is huge!

I would be awfully curious to hear what Tom Pecora would say now about his experience recruiting at Fordham. He came in very confident, but for the most part the recruiting left a bit to be desired aside from some exceptions which were big recruiting coups irrespective of whether they panned out or not.

Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports. Nothing. That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter. It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State

1. Fordham historically did a lot of recruiting out of NYC area high schools, and it seems that the talent levels there have dropped, for demographic and other reasons. Even Tom Pecora, who'd made his bones on recruiting the City and environs, found himself going outside the immediate area for recruits (Rochester, Boston, Montreal, to name a few destinations). And, for the talent remaining in NYC area high schools, the pool is being extensively fished.

2. A lot of the elite players get siphoned off into prep schools (a goodly number of them in New Jersey) where we haven't historically had much clout (despite having some alumni in these schools' coaching ranks).

3. We are disfavored by academic pressures, recent low success levels, and (dare I say) facilities issues. These are well known among area players, and are used by a lot of rival coaches as "oppo".

4. Our current head coach and his assistants did not have a profile of recruiting the area in the years before coming to Rose Hill. Mike DePaoli is young. We might be suffering a "fish out of water" phenomenon, to some extent.

5. Factors 1 through 4 are greatly diminished, if not eliminated altogether, when we go after foreign recruits.

Some really good points here.

In regards to #1, I'm always curious to compare skill-set of contemporary signings. I know what Fatty McMillan looked like in the gym on Day 1, I know what Fatty McMillan looked like against A10 competition. I'm curious to compare that with Hicks. I know what Frazier looked like in the gym on Day 1. I'm curious to compare that with Evans, and so forth...For the most part, I believe the primary issue has been player development (yes, there are exceptions; particularly recently); not necessary recruiting. So much of the talent is watered down and comparable; it's the internal development that sets a program apart (particularly for one that can't land the high-end A10 name that has several high-major offers)

#3 - As Ace said, it's huge, the biggest factor(s) make for a really compelling case to stay away from Rose Hill.

Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball

I would be awfully curious to hear what Tom Pecora would say now about his experience recruiting at Fordham. He came in very confident, but for the most part the recruiting left a bit to be desired aside from some exceptions which were big recruiting coups irrespective of whether they panned out or not.

Well, I'm curious to hear it, too, and recruits may very well hear it now that Tom's an assistant at Quinnipiac. I don't know if we'll go head-to-head with Quinny for many recruits, but Pecora will now be working with a modern 4,000 seat facility to sell, a lower-pressured academic environment, and a lot of inside knowledge about the Fordham experience. As folks will recall, Tom recruited a sizeable number of kids to Fordham, and a relatively high percentage of them transferred out. Hmm . . . .

While no fan of Pecora, overall I do not knock him as a recruiter. Understanding that he inherited a disaster, it is not surprising that some of his recruits were misses (Fay brothers, etc.) and really not A-10 or in some cases, D1 talent. However, Andersen, Rhoomes, Thomas, Sangfelder, Bunting, Severe, PAschal, Cahrtouny and Frazier were not bad recruits. What was apparent, especially with Coach N is that while Pecora landed some talent, he could not coach them at this level to improve upon their game and to maximize their talent.

I think we all know what Pecora will say since we heard the excuses for several years. Neubauer intended to go international on day 1. He wanted to bring ton in the first year but could not do it for some reason. When Neubauer was hired he said there is a reason a New York school hired a coach from EKU: what we were doing was not working. Neubauer was going to change everything from day 1 including recruiting.

I think we all know what Pecora will say since we heard the excuses for several years. Neubauer intended to go international on day 1. He wanted to bring ton in the first year but could not do it for some reason. When Neubauer was hired he said there is a reason a New York school hired a coach from EKU: what we were doing was not working. Neubauer was going to change everything from day 1 including recruiting.

we should play to our strengths and being in NYC gives us an opportunity to attract foreign players in ways other schools can't.

GW is in a similar situation and has built some solid teams with a host of international players. Go with it.

Nick and Pecora both told me that the academic issues were the biggest hurdles. Pecora was a bizarre situation. He was proclaiming his NYC recruiting prowess .......which might really have been Van Macons recruiting prowess....then went on a recruiting foray into the midwest.....He did manage to get some prized recruits.....he just couldnt coach...

Fordham appears to be very on top of the student athletes in terms of academics.......a lot kids dont want that.......agreed that the talent pool isnt as good as it used to be and all the transferring and prep schooling has taken many of the best players out of the city catholic league....

Fordham appears to be very on top of the student athletes in terms of academics.......a lot kids dont want that.......

No, they don't - and it's a very wide spectrum of academic ability/desire.

Understand that for many, it's a game of remaining eligible, i.e. Grab the A-/B+ in the BS coddled Math 101 class, suffer the C- in History by only doing an end of term paper. For every Chartouny or Sengfelder, there are three fringe "students" that are doing "OK" - The GPA may be 2.6, but it's a coddled 2.6 built in with the "right professor" and the "right class" and the right "help" - and Fordham imposes academic prowess much harder than most.

Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball

Power Memorial, Tolentine, Rice, St. Agnes in RVC were filling up D1 rosters for years. All are gone now. Seems like players identify as much or more with their respective AAU team. Toss in all the kids leaving for prep schools, its a smaller pool. 351 teams.

This is the new reality of college BB and recruiting, I like the idea of bringing International players to the most international of cities. I do think we need to find a balance between domestic, foreign and NYC area players but I do think that will be fluid

Most important thing is to get the level of player that can succeed in the A10

If you were to pick two A10 schools that Fordham has the strongest academic comp. towards, I'd be inclined to lean Davidson and George Washington.

No coincidence that both account for 4-5 players each. Both programs have a long history of international success, and that has a direct correlation on future signings. Davidson didn't get Gudmundson out of the blue. Next time around, maybe you get the next Yuta Watanabe.

A. Playing the international roulette gives Fordham a better chance to close the talent gap.

B. Generalization, Fordham is more inclined to be appealing to the international pool (NYC, academics, campus) - better students, city driven, want the business program/internships, etc. more big picture oriented.

C. You're (likely) more inclined to get an under-the-radar player abroad than in your back yard. Can Dunston happen? It did, but the next Sengfelder is more likely. But there needs to be more 'hits' - whether it be as go-to-impact arrivals or role players. You can't add four Turkish kids and have only one contribute significantly. The DePaul transfer has to be a player. Is Ivan Raut going to be Andy Rautins? Havsa must parlay his international play into another leap. (and I believe he will)...This theme goes back to the 'A10 Talent' thread at the top of the page. Pekarek, Slanina, etc - I don't know if these are the "right" signings that move the needle, but I do buy into the idea that there's a better "hit" rate here; with more upside on a big that we'd have no shot at regionally.

Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball

You're all assuming that the international market for players is some undiscovered land where we have our pick of the top talent. Not so. The top kids overseas are well-scouted and know the differences between Fordham and NCAA tourney teams. I highly doubt that we'd be in line for any of the top talent. I think we can attract better talent stateside.

You're all assuming that the international market for players is some undiscovered land where we have our pick of the top talent. Not so. The top kids overseas are well-scouted and know the differences between Fordham and NCAA tourney teams. I highly doubt that we'd be in line for any of the top talent. I think we can attract better talent stateside.

The top kids are well-scouted and aggressively courted, yes, and upper-tier athletes in any sport will garner attention in literally any country on earth these days. The issue, then, is the next tier down internationally: players with good size/athleticism but unrefined skills; players with good skills that are undersized; players that only recently transitioned to basketball from another sport after a growth spurt.

Limiting the pool of desirable teams to NCAA contenders as your example puts forth, let's say 33% of teams in the NCAA are either annual or very regular NCAA entrants. That's about 120 teams times 13 scholarships per team = 1560 scholarships in any year, divided by 4 to account for departing seniors = 390 recruits for those teams per year. That's not a huge amount of players. Even as the big programs will get their pick of the litter in Europe, Africa, South America, and regions beyond, there's still plenty relatively unheralded talent to be looked at. We might not land a Chris Welp, but we very reasonably could find another Christian Sengfelder.

You're all assuming that the international market for players is some undiscovered land where we have our pick of the top talent. Not so. The top kids overseas are well-scouted and know the differences between Fordham and NCAA tourney teams. I highly doubt that we'd be in line for any of the top talent. I think we can attract better talent stateside.

I tend to agree with you. Some of the comments saying we can offer the international kids something more because we are located in NYC IMO is over blown. As some pointed out schools have been recruiting good international players for some time now. Seton Hall had a top player from Israel when they went to the Championship game under PJ. UConn had a kid named Scheffer back in the 90s I believe also from Israel. Other schools have also benefited as well through the years. Point is its not new. I get it though. We need to explore all possibilities from a recruiting perspective especially since we are challenged to get consistent talent both locally and national. Problem is the successful schools bring in the talent to supplement their roster. We are looking for the foreign talent as a base. Its going to be a challenge regardless.

I Problem is the successful schools bring in the talent to supplement their roster. We are looking for the foreign talent as a base. Its going to be a challenge regardless.

Good point. Another point to process is "how bad has Fordham's talent level been?" We've sort of assumed that, because of the lousy W-L records, we must have lousy talent. Might not have been so true, it might have been a matter of bad coaching. JN got a lot more out of Pecora's talent than Pecora himself ever did.

I tend to agree with you. Some of the comments saying we can offer the international kids something more because we are located in NYC IMO is over blown. As some pointed out schools have been recruiting good international players for some time now. Seton Hall had a top player from Israel when they went to the Championship game under PJ. UConn had a kid named Scheffer back in the 90s I believe also from Israel. Other schools have also benefited as well through the years. Point is its not new. I get it though. We need to explore all possibilities from a recruiting perspective especially since we are challenged to get consistent talent both locally and national. Problem is the successful schools bring in the talent to supplement their roster. We are looking for the foreign talent as a base. Its going to be a challenge regardless.

The attraction to playing in the New York market for international players, along with Fordham's strong academics, are not key factors in landing them. In my many years of working with FIBA, I learned that international players are mainly interested in one thing: making money playing basketball. They want the fastest route to becoming a pro, whether it be in the NBA or elsewhere. If a program can provide that, they are interested.

What we have going for us in terms of international recruitment is Coach Ali Ton. He has much experience with this and many contacts overseas, so that will be the key to our success with recruiting international players until we reach the stage where we have a number of former internationals playing pro ball.