Love the trench queers!! Posting this for my team to read. Got a lot of new guys and one really young guy like to young to play in any games. But good read and great for new guys or guys that need a wake up call from cod

There's a paper I wanted to write titled "How stopped pretending to be a special forces soldier and learned to just have fun playing Airsoft" but somehow I could never shorten the title enough to make it worth writing the paper.

Love it Scarecrow!

Can we sticky this post? This thread screams basic TTP's, alas it will probably fall on some really deaf ears. I think I will take this and have the members on my team read it.

Corners in a CQB situation are the worst for players making errors, whether it be holding a corner or moving around them. Even online, I see hundreds of pictures of some goof holding or moving around a corner and it shrieks "WRONG - YOU'RE DEAD".

For example;

INCORRECT WAY TO HOLD A CORNER:

CORRECT WAY TO HOLD A CORNER:

Moving around corners are usually done incorrectly in the same fashion, with the muzzle of your weapon protruding first as opposed to making a wide arc so as to emerge simultaneously and ready to engage hostile targets. Even with larger rifles in confined spaces, most hallways and corridors allow for you to perform a proper sweep around a corner.

I beg to differ. Number two is fucking the dog. Staring lovingly into number one's neck hair.

I was more pointing toward the position of number one, but I completely agree in regards to the others in the picture. Their failure to be actively monitoring their kill clocks makes them susceptible to Captain Buttf**k.

I was more pointing toward the position of number one, but I completely agree in regards to the others in the picture. Their failure to be actively monitoring their kill clocks makes them susceptible to Captain Buttf**k.

All three in the stack are clearly marked MP's so they are Capt Doggy ButtFkrs. No need to look for them. remember the smilie means you cannot rage me for calling MP's Capt Doggy Buttfkrs.

If I may in both pictures they seem to have the space to do it so they should not have their barrel beyond the wall because they'll need a half second or more to get in firing position and the guys on the other side may already be ready to fire.
I stopped counting how many time I shot people doing hugging the wall when there's no need for it.

I beg to differ. Number two is fucking the dog. Staring lovingly into number one's neck hair.

One should take a knee, lean the corner, two should place his nuts on one's back, gun over gun, two eyes are better than one.

Number three is also fucking the dog, shit eating grin, ear to ear.

If the goal is to hold the corner, his eyes should be rearward giving security, this is all assuming a three man team like the picture.

In a four man, number three is calling the shots, and four is looking to the rear.

Right in the corner of the picture, you can see a leg, presumably Number 4 providing the mentioned rearward security. This is also a still shot, we have no idea what they were in the middle of. As Jeroon also mentioned, MP's.....

I'm no expert and it was a number of year back, but I remember being explicitly told not to take a knee unless I had to to utilize cover, that the time it would take to get up and move, while minimal, was unacceptable.

Having done Simunition CQB, I've noticed more people taking knees taking rounds than those who remain standing.

While I'm no expert, not combat arms and not a CQB instructor, I did sit through this bullshit on SQ, a few other occasions and put it to use on one of the MAPLE DEFENDER. Each of those times, with the exception of utilizing low cover, no one takes a knee. If someone with REAL credentials wants to correct me, please do so, I'm always down for updating what I know, but COD, ARMA, Chris Costa videos and Lone Survivor type movies are not credentials.

I'll leave an excerpt of something mentioned on another forum I frequent:

"In close range reactive shooting, the marksmanship issue is not challenging. What is challenging is the time interval available to you for shooting, as well as evasion of the adversary's muzzle. The target zone is quite generous: think of the size of a man's torso at 7 yards.

So we give up things that will slow us down, and accept a lessened degree of necessary accuracy. Gone are the supported positions such as prone and kneeling. All shooting here is done on your feet. And those feet are moving...fast. As we learned in training and in battle...standing still when rounds are coming towards you is a foolish practice. And during all of this, we see a pressing need to hit he who is trying to kill us."

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.

I think the pros and cons of kneeling can be explained in better context.

When in a close quarter urban environment, there are places that kneeling, as Gato eluded to, will likely get you shot quicker than if you were standing. I would be the first to agree.There are other places in that same environment that kneeling has advantages over standing.

If you are moving in a small group during a "low signature" movement inside a structure, taking a hallway corner can have advantages when taking it on a knee. Typically we anticipate movement at eye level, and sometimes a threat breaking cover from a low position can take us by surprise. The knee also allows a partner to pick up a position directly over top, so essentially you end up with two guns taking the corner simultaneously, as Shelled Pants mentioned in his post. This is also a current practice in some military and LE units, which has proven to be very successful.

When you lose the element of stealth and things are getting loud, the knee is even being practiced by some units in order to take a corner aggressively. I've already mentioned that breaking cover from a low point is not always anticipated. Now take into account that action is faster than reaction. By taking a corner aggressively, it causes a threat to react, which gives the person taking the corner the advantage. Sure, there's other factors involved that could deny the tactic, like an awaiting, defended and prepared position. If there was a 100% fail-proof tactic out there, everyone would be doing it. Unfortunately there isn't. We don't have chances until we take chances. That's fact.

As far as room clearing goes, kneeling can be used when you're once again moving quietly through a structure and need to slice the pie on a doorway. Some units drill this in a CQB environment, and will do this in tandem like I described how corners can be dealt with in hallways. The fatal funnel works both ways, guys. If you can slice the pie effectively on a door and come across a threat before he or she can react to you, you have an advantage. If you're 5 minutes into a gunfight, sneaking to the door may not be your best option. That scenario could potentially become an explosive, dynamic entry...if you even need to enter. Again, it's all in the right context. Is there a place for kneeling? Absolutely. Is it 100% effective all the time? Nothing is.

UK folks used to have an IA of taking a knee and transitioning to handgun on a primary stoppage in CQB. That's not a practice anymore. Kneeling inside a room has been replaced with lateral movement. Keeps guys mobile and in the fight. Their US counterparts are similar, but will still employ the knee on taking corners on longer angles, on occasion. Not a suitable technique for inside tight enclosures, but it's a technique in their repertoire nonetheless.

Most of this discussion is based on reactionary gaps. Time and distance equals a reactionary gap. In terms of shooting, distance and cover can permit you to kneel and/or plant to make sighted shots. Yet as we decrease our distance to threats, we decrease our reactionary time, and unfortunately improve our threats accuracy at the same time! So we have to know what is an acceptable sight picture at any given range. I believe an understanding and appropriate use of tactics also falls into this responsibility.

One last note on that picture above. I can't stand armchair generals, so I'll make some broad assumptions here.

Hugging cover is a cardinal sin. Rounds that don't impact you and hit your cover will tend to travel the plane of that cover and still tag you. Both horizontal and vertical cover. BBs can resemble a similar behavior at times. Bullets impacting cover can also generate spalling and debris, which can be equally deadly to you. Fighting off of cover minimizes the chances of ricochet. All that being said, if you take a corner and have time and distance and some advantage in your position, there's nothing wrong with taking up a supported position to make a sighted shot.

Performing a bit of thread necromancy here. Wanted to thank the OP for finding this. I knew the contents already, but my son (12) is just getting into the sport and having a quick and short guide will be good for him to reference.