in fact, anything preceding the big bang would have to be within the confines of time...by the very nature that it preceded...(came before)...so time would have to exist for this scenario to happen...

But it does not have to be within the concepts of OUR time. In fact that claim may not even make sense. But it is possible that our universe was born from the death-throes of of a previous universe. Hence cause and effect (if valid) would not be violated.

KK! glad to see you've re-emerged from the foul pit. The assertion that God dun it is opposite of your assertion that the goo dun it.

No it isn't. God is not limited by your petty imaginations.

bohart wrote:

Now your assertion complicates a lot, because with "goo dun it" you have to explain your goo, provide even more evidence to support the goo, and then explain why all the evidence does not support the goo dun it assertion....that's a lot of explaining.

Actually all the evidence we have thus far supports abiogenesis, even though it's only a hypothesis and not a theory. Of course we have been through it all with you a thousand times before.

<quoted text>Would I take an interest in the lives of gnats? Seriously?But I have no reason to believe such a higher intelligence exists so not a deist. Besides if a higher intelligence did create the universe I would define it not as God but as something that had evolved in a prior universe.On the other hand evolution is not random. There is intelligent design. Those birds blown to remote islands did not evolve randomly but instead changed to fill particular niches... just as brown bears on the arctic ice sheet evolved into polar bears. Unlike some Darwinists I see nothing happenstance about it.

Natural selection is neither random nor intelligent. "Intelligence" is NOT the opposite of random.

Forming a hypothesis has served very well as a starting point for countless experiments, and it will serve very well as a starting point for countless experiments to come.

Therefore, Science has LONg time been based on much of what has OFTEN been "unseen".

1. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details. 2. Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind. 3. My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. 4. The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge. 5. Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. 6. The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. 7. There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance. 8. The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. 9, The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science. 10. We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.

11. Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.(Ohhhh-now THAT's a REALLy good one too lolo)and on with th list-- When the solution is simple, God is answering.

God does not play dice with the universe. God is subtle but he is not malicious.

A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life.

Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.(Nice one number Three!)

Only a life lived for others is a life worth while.(often very true!)

The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a HOLY curiosity.

What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men. The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man. True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness. Intelligence makes clear to us the interrelationship of means and ends. But mere thinking cannot give us a sense of the ultimate and fundamental ends. To make clear these fundamental ends and valuations and to set them fast in the emotional life of the individual, seems to me precisely the most important function which religion has to form in the social life of man.

ALL of the above-quotes from Albert Eisntein.

(so don't try and pretend... and rewrite HISTORY-because you'd only be LYING about it!!)

"Gaw some of you "trekkies" can be soooo DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH uuhhhh mm, sometimes"

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a HOLY curiosity.

What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men. The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man. True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness. Intelligence makes clear to us the interrelationship of means and ends. But mere thinking cannot give us a sense of the ultimate and fundamental ends. To make clear these fundamental ends and valuations and to set them fast in the emotional life of the individual, seems to me precisely the most important function which religion has to form in the social life of man.

thewordofme wrote:Faith is believing something with no evidence. I don't do that, why do you??The Independent Majority wrote:If Science felt that way, they'd all still be stuck, sitting in kindergarten sandboxes, twying to see how many make mud pies they culd makes, with they little plaskit pails of puddwle wahter.I don't know where IM gets that idea.I thought that Science DID feel that way,and I don't see how it could keep science in a state of stagnation.Lack of faith never stopped anyone from forming hypotheses, and it certainly never kept scientists from testing those hypotheses.Forming a hypothesis has served very well as a starting point for countless experiments, and it will serve very well as a starting point for countless experiments to come.

and I'm not going to try and explain Anything else to you, because no doubt, such would require headless props or something lol.

<quoted text>Your avatar just looky like a "trekky".Simple enough?:-)Latest news from CERN (the European org for nuclear research)-------It has been said that the operation is going to get closed for maintenance purposes. Experts known to the matter have affirmed that the LHC will resume working by 2015. Its revival will witness some more features added to the same, as it will witness rise in collision energy, rise in power.Not only this, it has also been revealed that its luminosity will also be increased.The particle, which is also known as God's Particle was made by the European Organization for Nuclear Research CERN.Experts said that there is a reason for calling the particle to be God's Particle, as the discovery is said to the building block, which provides mass to any substance present in the universe....Maledevic, I. CERN’s Large Hadron Collider to Take 2 Years’ Break. TopnewsUS. 1/3/2013----------Huh..Well fancy that descriptive-right out of the mouth of SCIENCE.

Now we're talking....about (LHC) Large Hard-on Colliders

Do partycles have mass? I have yet to see the animation of this theory but first, scientists should be able to see inside that tunnel machine by putting cameras in there. lol. It's a giant roller coaster. Now take us for a ride...tunnel vision!

<quoted text>Now we're talking....about (LHC) Large Hard-on CollidersDo partycles have mass? I have yet to see the animation of this theory but first, scientists should be able to see inside that tunnel machine by putting cameras in there. lol. It's a giant roller coaster. Now take us for a ride...tunnel vision!

<quoted text>Now we're talking....about (LHC) Large Hard-on CollidersDo partycles have mass? I have yet to see the animation of this theory but first, scientists should be able to see inside that tunnel machine by putting cameras in there. lol. It's a giant roller coaster. Now take us for a ride...tunnel vision!

(we here in the US have other arrangements for sociopathically warped pedophile types ...they call them jails.)

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