But Siemens, one of the few firms to openly back a Remain vote, will not be making new investments until the future of the UK’s relationship with Europe becomes clearer.

Juergen Maier, the firm’s UK CEO, said that an existing blueprint to export offshore wind turbine machinery from the Hull hub was now up in the air.

He said: “Those plans were only beginning to happen and I expect that they will stall until we can work out exactly what the [new government’s] plan is, how we can participate in EU research programmes, and until all the issues around tariffs and trade have been sorted out.”

It is unclear how much money the EU gave to the Hull project but it has put up £525m for the Beatrice windfarm project in Scotland, whose developer will be a major buyer of the Hull factory’s turbine blades.

Greens often try to paint support for climate policies as a left / right issue, but the truth is far more nuanced. Despite unwavering support for green causes from elite left wing British politicians, the reality is there are plenty of “Reagan Democrats” throughout the world, who are open to persuasion about issues which directly affect their own lives – as UKIP proved with the massive Brexit defections they engineered in places like Hull, some of the most staunchly left wing regions in Britain. Without UKIPs effort to appeal to the left, the Brexit vote would have failed.

To put it another way, people who are one or two paycheques away from homelessness have no time for politicians who promise to make their energy bills skyrocket, if someone makes the effort to offer them an alternative.

245 thoughts on “Brexit: Siemens Freezes New Wind Power Projects”

Yes, loved the comment on “none of you have ever had a real job” :-). I once had the privilege of having a 20 minutes one on one talking to Nigel Farage, he’s just the same in person as he is in his videos – straight talker, says what he thinks, doesn’t give a d*mn about offending people he doesn’t like.

Paul,
He didn’t serve humble pie to anyone. The assertions in his speech were absurd and manifestly untrue (which is why they were laughing at him):
– Brexit has damaged the Euro – it has, but only by a quarter of the amount it has damaged the pound
– The EU will be more damaged by not having a fair trade agreement with Britain than Britain will be – anyone who believes this is either mad or brainless.
– Hundreds of thousands of German carmakers will lose their jobs if tariffs are imposed – Britain is only one modest export market in the global market for the German manufacturers – a reduction in British imports would only be a relatively minor hit to them.
Please not that Farage was ‘pleading’ with the EU for a fair deal. Why pleading if Britain doesn’t need the EU? It simply doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Paul, you may not be following events but the Brexit vote has caused a political, constitutional, forex and financial meltdown in Britain that has all but destroyed its reputation in Europe (the Commission President joked with Cameron that he might like to take the empty UK commissioners job – as clear a message as possible that Britain’s influence is now zero in Europe as a British PM would never have been spoken to like that in the past.) It remains to be seen how bad it will be for their economy but the signs are getting much worse every day. Their credit rating has been downgraded 2 notches and is on negative watch. Businesses left right and centre are suspending investment plans in the UK. The market expectation is the pound will drop to USD1.2 and some are talking of 1.10 or lower. It has already dropped about 14% from the average value in 2015 and 21% from the average value since 2000.
There is a growing belief in the UK political class (insofar as it can focus on anything at the moment it is in such turmoil) and media commentariat that Brexit will, in fact, never happen. Brexiteers are expected en masse to become Bregeteers when the full fiscal, unemployment and forex impacts of the vote are played out in the coming months.
Farage is an entertaining clown. He is witty and is unquestionably enjoyable company (see the FT lunch with him – Henry Mance article a few months back; very funny). But he is an economic and financial illiterate which is strange given his previous employment in the city.
There is a fine line between self-belief and self-delusion and Farage crossed that line many years ago.

Hoplite, I don’t want to turn this thread into a political one, but you should be very wary of making predictions on the economy. First of all, the pound has gone down (as expected – which will help our exports), but as I write the FTSE is going up! But it isn’t about money, it’s about quality of life, as Mr Farage has tried to point out. Our population rose 500,000 last year. This isn’t sustainable. We have a higher population density than Pakistan, for crying out loud! The odd thing is, EVEN IF someone had seen the future and stated that some months after Brexit the pound would still be low…so what? That isn’t what it was all about, and I know that people who, like you, bang on about how much our economy will be hit, continually fail to see the bigger picture.
I am confident that I can destroy all your arguments, but as I said, this isn’t a political forum. You even seem to think that we had influence in the EU!!! We did not, that’s why we couldn’t change it. For many years now, we have been voted down on issue after issue – 72 at the last count, I believe. ‘Majority Voting’ (something you don’t seem to understand) put paid to any influence we could ever have. The EU will collapse in time – not because of us (though we will be the catalyst) but because it cannot reform due to vested interests and policies inherently designed to fail.
The pound WILL continue to be low for a little while (so what?), Brexit WILL happen, British companies WILL continue to do well (watch the FTSE), and other countries WILL follow. And all this is thanks to one man, Mr Farage. Without his vision of how the EU would unravel, and without his wish for an independent Britain, we wouldn’t ever of had a referendum…because, as you must know, the political parties don’t do democracy. Brexit was about immigration, about the EU’s mad free-movement policy, and about the fact that we have a net migration rate of 330,000 immigrants A YEAR. In three years that’s another million! See the bigger picture, Hoplite, a lower pound is insignificant.

@Hoplite. Given 60% of UK exports are to Non EU countries, a weaker pound will make our exports cheaper and is just the boost the economy needs to take that 60% higher and cement the fact we don’t need to rely on the EU.

Most noticeable is that the Remain crowd and fellow travelers treat this very similarly to the manner in which battered wives used to be counseled by friends and advisers and threatened by abusive husbands and their allies.

“Most noticeable is that the Remain crowd and fellow travelers treat this very similarly to the manner in which battered wives used to be counseled by friends and advisers and threatened by abusive husbands and their allies.”
I noticed that too. It’s always, “You can’t afford to leave. You have to put up with this abusive relationship because you have no choice.”

Bazzer, Paul , graphic – if the impending exit is beneficial to the economy and to Britain generally why is there a constitutional crisis, unprecedentedly both political parties in leadership contests, the leaders of Leave have no idea what to do next, businesses in so many sectors announcing suspension of investment plans etc?
You wanted to exit – now you’ve got it – the EU is saying go – but now you’re hesitating…….why is that?
I feel sorry in many ways for the English as they are really prisoners of their history and unable to adjust to the modern world. The empire’s gone – and it ain’t coming back. Learn to co-operate with your European neighbours or you will rapidly confine yourselves to just being an economic backwater of Europe (not a threat by the way but the stark reality facing you that we’d be remiss in not warning you of).

Didn’t help that their elected officials and permanent bureaucrats became downright hostile to the values and systems that enabled its strengths, and, lately, to its natives. Just ask the hundreds of Rotherham girls who were subjected to programmatic sexual abuse while the so-called child protection authorities looked the other way and the feckless press called it “grooming” when finally forced to provide the story. And, the others in other cities.
It is indeed a threat to state, “Join the collective, or perish” when the person stating has the means to provide consequences, as here. Saying it is not does not change this. In any case, Britain will not be the last to leave, which explains all the scolding and panic from the winning voting Britons’ betters. The punishments to come will not be personal, just for those looking on.

Hoplite:
The financial markets are volatile because they made bets about the outcome of the vote and are now correcting. Remember, nothing has actually happened yet – the markets brought all this on themselves.
Labour has never liked their new leader. Timing is just a coincidence.
The current PM is not happy with the result as he campaigned very hard to get the opposite outcome. Consequently, he thinks someone more in tune with Brexit should initiate the formal conversation with the EU.
“… not a threat by the way …” Good, I didn’t feel threatened.

Bzzer1959 “We did not, that’s why we couldn’t change it. For many years now, we have been voted down on issue after issue – 72 at the last count, I believe.”
Since 1998 when the the figures can be checked the number is 58. How many time did the UK vote Yes do you think?
The number is 2466 in the same period. This is typical “leave” disinformation. The fact is correct, but the interpretation “time after time” is grossly misleading. It occurs on average times year and only 3% of the time. That puts a different complexion on it.
” Brexit was about immigration,” Yes, we all know that.

So Hoplite you say- “Brexit has damaged the Euro – it has, but only by a quarter of the amount it has damaged the pound”
Well we’ll see how well your illustrious Euro does bailing out the Italian banks and the whole Greek economy among others in the EU house of cards, not to mention continuing to fund all those unelected snouts in the trough in Brussels, without British taxpayers from here on. Perhaps the Scots will help bail them all out when the time comes?
The poll that really counted for all those wobbly Remainders with the vapours now, was when they were asked to put their money where their mouth is and fortuitously and portentously they showed us their true colours-http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7806936.stm
Money talks and bulls*#t squarks it seems.

Hoplite
Regarding, as an example, your statement “– The EU will be more damaged by not having a fair trade agreement with Britain than Britain will be – anyone who believes this is either mad or brainless.”
Apparently, the “mad or brainless” include stock market investors. For. as of the close of the markets today (6/29/16). the FTXE 100 had regained all of the initial losses and even made a slight gain for the week (+1.6%)… a mere four days after the vote. Indeed, if one takes the time to look at the charts the FTXE has been rising steadily since the initial drop on the 24th.
In sharp contrast, the DAX continues with a lost 4.5% – with no significant growth since the vote. Similarly the CAC 40 lost approximately 4.3% with no significant growth since the vote.
The clear message from investors is that: 1) investors are far more inclined to invest in a free U.K. than even the strongest EU countries; 2) the EU needs the U.K. far more than the U.K. need the EU.
As for the S&P downgrading the U.K. credit rating… lets be realistic, the other two major credit setting institutions had down graded the U.K. credit rating well before the vote and the S&P is notorious for waiting for “diversionary” opportunities to downgrade countries… as a means of avoiding criticism from the government being downgraded. And, the U.K. government’s “establishment’s reactions to the vote hardly suggest the government as a whole learned anything from the spanking they received from voters. Nor does the vote say anything about the existing government’s spending habits… those habits are an entirely different issue.

Thank you thank you for posting that YouTube. I heard only a brief snippet about “…not ever holding a job…” while getting ready for dinner this past evening. So getting to see and hear the whole bloody thing was a real treat.

Farage was dead on . Did any of you see that edifice those people are sitting in? It makes the UN look like a backyard shack. Just imagine the amount of support staff that place needs, and no-one producing ANYTHING! but regulations, thanks for the video, to me an eye opener looking at the surroundings and the comments Farage made about the place he has been standing in and fighting against for 17 years!!

” Did any of you see that edifice those people are sitting in?”
The shape of your parliament speaks volumes. In the UK we have benches facing each other in true adversarial fashion. The EU has the communist type of parliament where the elite sit on a raised platform at the front and the ones who must obey are arranged like an audience.
The EU parliament members are elected but the catch is that they have almost no power – even less than the UK’s House of Lords.
So about 750 MEPs each with a salary of about EUR 100,000 pa.

graphic – don’t forget the expense claims [generally, it seems, rather lightly scrutinised], which seem to syphon taxpayers’ money to certain goods and services necessary for MEPs’ performances of their duties..
And the Luxemburg-style tax rates paid by Euro-functionaries; about the same as Junckers’ buddy Coca Cola, and the rest, at about zilch per-cent.
And pensions, too, that Croesus would envy.
Oh did you hear Neil Kinnock – for one rather prominent, if occasionally long-winded, Remainer – who gets a Euro-pension that – were he to step out of line on support of the Grand Project – would be eliminated in two shakes of a puppy dog’s tail. And his good lady wife’s, ditto.
And I’m not sure if one son isn’t also ‘representing our interests in Europe’. I may be wrong.
Another son is a Labour MP, so earns his crust – putting up with Comrade Jeremy’s principles.
Auto,
Very glad that the UK will have sovereignty – and can decide for ourselves which folk can come to our country – and which we can eject.
Not be instructed by some dodgily inexperienced Euro-jurists that because a mad axe-murderer has a pet cat, we can’t deport her [or him].

asybot writes- “thanks for the video, to me an eye opener looking at the surroundings and the comments Farage made about the place he has been standing in and fighting against for 17 years!!”
That’s only the tip of the iceberg and for a real eye opener watch this right through and you’ll see why Farage fought the good fight all those years-https://www.brexitthemovie.com/
Now for the UN and ditching the gaggle of gangsters for a tighter United Liberal Democratic Nations club.

Hear, hear! Thank you, Paul Westhaver, for posting that speech by a true hero for liberty, Nigel Farage.
Heh — they won’t be laughing for long… “What’s that noise?” they will say, rousing from their naps at their desks. It will be the sound of doors slamming as country after country picks up its briefcase and walks — out.
@ EU: Listen up. Your days are numbered ……
Bwah, ha, ha, ha, haaaaaaaa!!!
(could have done without Farage calling those for liberty “democrats” (ugh) 😉 )

Yet another example of two peoples divided by a common language, Janice. Your Democrats would be either Blaire left or full-blown socialists in the UK. “Democratic” still retains it’s original meaning, untainted by an unaccountable, authoritarian, presidential administration and it’s former Secretary of State.

Janice, did you notice how many cheered when Farage said” The U.K. will not be the last to leave ” ?? I’m lovin’ it ! The socialist “Agenda 21” takes another deadly blow to the nuts ! ( You can take that two ways) LOL

Excellent, Paul. Well done for posting that video.
On the TV news I watched tonight (in the UK), naturally they only showed a snippet. I say ‘naturally’ because I think the British TV news stations (BBC, ITV) are afraid of the additional popularity it would give Nigel Farage were they to show him fighting for British industry in the EU. They prefer to try and denigrate him as a figure of fun holding a pint of beer in the pub.
As a fan of Nigel’s for years, make no mistake – he is a force for good and a force for change. AND he didn’t get the true praise for which he was due, for the outcome of the Brexit vote; most of that was given to Boris Johnson who, to my mind, is nowhere near such a good speaker.
Bravo Nigel Farage.

It must be said that never once during the very long campaign did I hear climate change mentioned. It was never an issue.
However there is no doubt the EU is hopping mad with us.
Please send your ideas for ‘ten ways to punish the Brits for wanting to leave the asylum, which can be used to frighten other inmates’ to;
Sour Grapes
The EU commission
Brussels.
Large grants available to the winner in order to develop the ideas further.
tonyb

Climatereason: You would have heard tons about CC if you had heard some of the desperate Remainians banging on about the benefits of the EU. According to them the EU was the only body – after the UN – that could save humanity (but mostly Europe) from the ravages of CC. It was all so cliched.

Marcus June 29, 2016 at 7:50 am
“Simple Little Simon…Farage did not insult any countries, he insulted the useless EU bureaucrats ! Reality Matters !”
Mental Little Marcus
Yes the little “useless bureaucrats” the UK is going to be negotiating with very soon. Real sharp. Give the man a gold star for the fine work he is doing for his country.

I would have thought it would have been a whole lot smarter for Farage to be diplomatic at this time. Time will tell how well England can negotiate deals that justifies the decision to leave. But to do that they are going to need the support of many of the countries this man just insulted. Sometimes “straight shooting” is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Simon,
Have you thought that it would have been so much less complicated if the Governments of the various countries were NOT involved in agreements between willing buyers and willing sellers? If Siemens is throwing a pooie, it must be based on the need to undo various government regulations that would not have existed in a true free market.

Simon, you don’t get it. THEY want to sell to US! They will come to our door. Most of our exports are TO non-EU countries. Most of our imports are FROM EU countries. Our “justification” for leaving was the policy of free-movement, nothing to do with economics.

It would be truly funny, if it was not so very true.
It is one of the major problems in politics that politicians have so little real life experience and no commercial/business acumen.
I am alarmed at the thought of politicians negotiating the exit strategy for the UK. We need some real people with real life commercial experience in negotiating major contracts. Perhaps a team made up of some of the major FTSE companies who are experienced in negotiating on the global scale for competitive contracts.
The UK exports about £10 billion of trade into Germany, whereas Germany sells/imports into the UK about £100 billion of trade into the UK, and if that disparity does not give the UK a strong negotiating hand, god knows what will. The higher the tariff, the more money the UK treasury receives and the greater the risk to Germany that it will lose business. Some are suggesting that the trade tariff will between 3 to 6% but that means that the German tax payer will be paying into the UK treasury a net figure of between £2.7billion to £5.4billion annually.
Germany cannot afford to impose tariffs since the German people will not wish to be paying into the UK treasury such sums, and Germany cannot afford to price its goods out of the market place thus jeopardising £100billion of trade. If it was to lose !55 of trade that would cost the German tax payer £15billion per year plus lead to unemployment and welfare payments.
On top of that the UK contributes 15% of the EU total budget. The EU is now losing this and either there will have to be drastic cut backs in what the EU does, or the German people will have to meet the greatest shares of the net funds that the UK had been contributing.
It is unhappy times for the German tax payer (I) having to make up the lions share of the lost net contributions from the UK, (ii) dealing with the migrant crisis and the welfare and housing expenditure that that brings with it, (iii) dealing with the Greek bailout, such the last thing the German tax payer needs is the prospect of tariffs on the £100billion of trade that it does with the UK which may require the German tax payer to pay monies to the UK treasury, risks a loss of market share which could be exacerbated by unemployment and further welfare payments.
However, the politicians because of their lack of real world experience and commercial/business experience do not understand the problem.
Germany is very exposed and the UK ought to get a superb deal.

‘Germany is very exposed and the UK ought to get a superb deal.’
English delusion knows no bounds. Economic realities will bite you in the a$$ real soon, however, and the Union Jack wrapped around you won’t protect you from them.

Hoplite – you dont present any reasons for staying other than a wild guess as to what might happen when we actually leave and ridiculing the Brexit optomists.
Hmm – who should I listen to a manic negative depressive or an optimistic believer in democracy, difficult one, help me here I need more threats and predictions of doom and gloom to persuade me the ‘Hoplite’ way is best.
Your inability to accept a democratic process which has been discussed at length, is typical of anyone that works to further the ideals of the EU. You dont seem to get that the EU has been thoroughly rejected by a people who have been brainwashed, bullied and lied to right from the start 43 years ago.
It takes an awful lot to raise this sort of anger against the establishment in the UK. If it had been laid out in detail how powerless we are within the EU process, if it was laid out how close we are to the point of no return where we would never be asked our opinion again (April 2017), if it was made clear how we have been cut off from our partners in the commonwealth by trade barriers imposed by the EU, if the PM and chancellor having allowed the referendum to happen had remained neutral the result would have been an even bigger clamour for EXIT.
Conversely if the EU had reformed to be more democratic and had not been so arrogantly dismissive of Mr Camerons pleas for concessions, then perhaps the result would have gone Remains way. However stubborness, arrogance and vindictiveness are the EU’s and evidently Mr Juncker’s Modus Operandi. The blame of problems in the EU will be blamed on Brexit, but we do really know who is to blame and that is the EU itself and its arrogant leader Mr Junckers. They evidently dont like us and would rather power on without us – the development of closer Union and an EU army worries me greatly however will the future unelected commissioners or Presidents be unable to resist using such an army to expand their interests further – after all that is their stated intention for its use.
We are very right to call the EUs bluff here, if it has the right effect then the EU will reform for the benefit of the whole Union and noone else will leave and we will be allowed back once the reforms we have quite reasonably asked for over the years finally take place. It may be however that the EU does what it does best and threaten and bully its member states to submit and takes us back into the EU fold by force…….I hope not, but that is what truly frightens me – this is becoming a superstate on the lines of the Soviet Block – a ruling Elite that had completely subjugated its people and brainwashed them to believe that they had never had it so good and enforced its borders with cold blooded efficiency.
Personally I think that if article 50 is invoked and we Leave the EU – and that still seems likely, then others will want to follow as I dont believe the peoples of Europe want to be ruled by this overbearing bureaucracy any more than we do. Some will stick with it and hope (thats all they can do against this administration) that reform will come, but it cant without the will from within and that isnt there, so ultimately it will collapse to be replaced with a more democratic solution.
Hoplite I am sure you are a reasonable person and you believe in the EUs intentions, but being so completely negative about the UKs potential is ridiculous and seems to stem from your belief that the EU is an extremely vindictive organisation hell bent on ruining a country purely because we no longer wish to be subservient. That may be true but why would you support such a monster

You think he’s reasonable, based on this?
“English delusion knows no bounds. Economic realities will bite you in the a$$ real soon, however, and the Union Jack wrapped around you won’t protect you from them.”
It’s quite clear he hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about, and I would guess he isn’t British, so cannot know what the situation is here.

‘your belief that the EU is an extremely vindictive organisation hell bent on ruining a country’
Au contraire the ruining has been very capably done by the British voters themselves. There’s nothing vindictive in the EU’s response. They have a single market and for that market to function countries must abide by certain rules (every ordered system needs rules or else there is only chaos). For what reason on God’s earth would the EU choose to ignore those critical rules and allow Britain access to the market without following the rules everyone else has to? Interpreting their stance as vindictiveness is as childish as it is wrong.
I’m Irish btw and not British. I share the concerns over the immigration issue and want to see it tackled effectively and firmly at a European level. I believe Merkel was crazy in what she said and I don’t doubt she regrets it now.

all of the EU and the uk also did their bestest evah feet shooting following the utterly stupid sanctions on russia pushed BY america..
most of them lost billions ongoing..
so this kerfuffle of huge losses etc etc over uk is all too childish to be believed
the ones who did loose? the bilderberger scum who had thought theyd got it stitched up for bremain lost bigtime
though soros the venal chappie shorted deutchbank, to profit anyway,
reckon other did also
see gold soared?
funny that

This response is to Hoplite:
“…‘Germany is very exposed and the UK ought to get a superb deal.’
English delusion knows no bounds. Economic realities will bite you in the a$$ real soon, however, and the Union Jack wrapped around you won’t protect you from them….”
Only history will judge who is delusional here. All indications right now are that EU is in panic mode.
I don’t think that Mutty Angela will survive the election as well as there might be additional defections, unless sweeping changes are made to the structure of EU.

“It would be funny if it were not so very true” Indeed Canada has a Prime Minister who has never had a real job. It’s hard to understand how wealth is created when one has never created it themselves.I am truly amazed that it could be controversial to prefer to govern yourself by the people you elect. The Brexit really highlights the ongoing creep towards tolerance to tyranny. At least this is a small step away from it.

..President Trump and the U.S. of A. will welcome ALL new trade with the U.K. !!…FYI……I consider Trump the lesser of two evils, but he will be good for the world (little people like me) as a whole in the end !

Chris 4692 June 29, 2016 at 4:30 am: ” Those tarrifs on German goods will be paid by the consumers in the UK through higher prices, not by the Germans.”

The problem with tariffs is not simply that they make goods more expensive, often they cannot be passed onto the customer. In a global competitive market, German goods cannot easily withstand a hike in their price of 6 to 10% without significantly impacting upon sales. If German car prices were to be hiked by 10%, it may be that Germany instead of exporting £100 billion of goods to the UK annually will only export £70 billion. A loss of £30 BILLION. This will then lead to loss of employment resulting in further losses to the German exchequer (less tax receipts more welfare payments). Germany cannot afford to see that.
The UK could adopt a stance of zero tariffs and no automatic free movement of people/labour, and should you not agree we well impose say a 30% tariff (or higher) on German goods. That would price German goods out of the market and would result in Germany losing £100 billion annually. We can further say that just like the USA, we will fine VW (and all the other German car manufacturers) for the diesel emission scandal. That will incur the VW group in a loss of about £20 billion.
We know from the VW emission scandal that Germany will not take on its motor industry. The EU is pro green but it has not fined VW. It has let it get away with it.
The UK can make life very difficult for the German car industry, and their industry will put pressure on the German government.
After all, the UK simply wants zero tariffs (but with no automatic free movement) so the UK is not being unreasonable. But if the EU does not play game, then Germany is extremely exposed if the UK takes a hard nosed response to the negotiations.
PS. I am not advocating a trade war, but the commercial realities are stark. The politicians may not appreciate them but sooner or later German commercial interests will catch up with the politicians. The German car industry will ensure that a zero tariff deal is struck come what may.. The UK merely needs some good negotiators.
PPS the head winds for Germany are extremely bad since their is talk of the need for a 2 tier Euro, euro1 and euro 2. Euro 1 will be the standard currency for the stronger Northern European economies and the weaker euro 2 for the southern weaker economies. If this plan is adopted then the value of Euro 1 will strengthen, and German has been the big winner of a relatively cheap Euro. If it uses Euro 1 which strengthens above the current Euro, that will hit German exports, and being an export based economy this will be a handicap. Further Deutsche bank is in dire trouble. Indeed, the Greek bailout was not made to help Greece but to help save the European banks. it appears likely that Deutsche Bank will require a lot of injection of money from the German tax payers.
PPS. the entire EU project may implode. The position today is not likely to be the position in 2 years time.
I stand by my view that Germany is extremely exposed, and that will 9if played properly) have a big impact upon future deals to be negotiated. But we will see how it all pans out in due course.

The UK is 17% of the EU economy. It is estimated that Exports to UK from EU re about 15% of total EU exports. Exports from UK EU are about 46% of total UK exports. The EU is much more important to the UK than the UK is to the EU. Now who do you think is in a stronger position?
“The UK exports bout £10B into Germany, whereas Germany sells/imports into the UK about £100 billion of trade into the UK.”
Oh dear, wrong again. The UK exports $46B to Germany and imports $100B from Germany. Still an imbalance, but you are off by a factor of nearly 5. Germany exports a total of $1.5 trillion. The UK is under 7% of Germany’s exports. Significant, but nowhere near as important as the EU is to the UK. Germany is one of 27 members of the EU, the majority of whom have to agree. Germany may have more to lose than others, but they are not the final say. Exports to the rest of the EU from Germany are $300B – three times that to Britain. Now who do you think is in the strongest position – the EU or the UK?
By every measure, the UK is in the weaker position because we have more to lose from a failure than the EU does.

‘The UK could adopt a stance of zero tariffs and no automatic free movement of people/labour, and should you not agree we well impose say a 30% tariff (or higher) on German goods.’
Richard
Some well argued pieces. However, the bit above, and comments from others. seem to epitomise the old saying:
Fog in the Channel – Europe cut off.
Think about a response to the UK imposing a 30% tariff on German goods. The Channel Tunnel closed and one ferry a week allowed into Calais.
Trade wars only lead to a reduction in activity and in living standards. Exports to the UK are approx. 10% of global German exports. A hit, but not catastrophic. Approx 48% of our exports are to the EU. The UK does not have a strong hand in the forthcoming negotiations.

Neither has Merkel realized this nor has “Adolf Schnurzpiepegal” Juncker. They are on their mental dreamboat still thinking about how to carry on. They’d rather watch the “Carry on” movies, they are closer to the world than these cloudcuckoosnest vultures.

Farage was embarrassing. He is not a true Englishman.
I quote Kipling,
______________________________________
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
‘ Or walk with Kings – nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And – which is more – you’ll be a Man, my son!
______________________________________
He may be English.
But not a Man.

Yawn!
You’re arrogance is breath-taking, you are the arbiter of Englishness, yet you want England and the rest of the UK subsumed into a Fascist Super State.
I am ready to fight you anytime for my birth right
Now crawl back under you’re stone and let us get on with fighting the climate scam!

Not at all.
This was not related to Farage’s support for Brexit. Many Labour supporters agree with him on that.
It was to do with the childish gloating in the EU Parliament.
Look at the bits I put in Bold.

Had you seen the session in real time you would know that Junker spoke first and his first words were to Farage who was seated but a few feet to his right. He asked him why he was there and told him to leave the chamber amid much cheering from the sycophantic MEPs.
It was 20odd minutes later that Nigel delivered the speech that is videod above and he was within his rights to retaliate in the way that he did.
The malevolent concept that is the EU has nearly run it’s course and the German hegemony will eventually have to remove it’s boot from the neck of the remaining members.
Merkel went too far on the migrant situation and has sown the seeds of a final solution to this anachronistic structure.

After listening and reading to the oratory and literary skills of people like Nigel Farage and Christopher Monckton, our American Politicians seem so lame, inarticulate and simple thinkers. I think as a nation if we had less “Common Core” and “Critical Thinking” and more Aristotle and Plato we’d be much better off.

Britain is in urgent need of reliable sources of energy not intermittent ones such as wind power or solar. If the lights and heating are not to go off we must hope that the winter of 2016/17 is as mild as the almost record breaking one in 2015/16.Almost? 1869 was warmer.
tonyb

Reblogged this on Climatism and commented:
Siemens finally reading the not-so-feel-good tea leaves:
From previous post:
UK’s Wind Power Nightmare Hits High Farce: Having Wrecked Everything, Wind Industry Now Says ‘Britain Not Windy Enough’
After squandering billions of pounds they have seen the light, thank heavens. England’s great landscapes may be spared more futile despoliation at taxpayers’ expense.
But the turbines that already exist will stand to mock us for years to come, most of them generating scarcely enough electricity to power their manufacturers’ production lines.
There are 6,846 across Britain, plus another 15,000 private installations. Each one is a monument to the follies a government can commit when given a green flag to squander our cash.
James Delingpole’s ever-pertinent maxim once again: “Greens – Killing the Earth (and people’s lives and livelihoods) to ‘save’ it.”https://climatism.wordpress.com/2016/06/16/uks-wind-power-nightmare-hits-high-farce-having-wrecked-everything-wind-industry-now-says-britain-not-windy-enough/

See your local Windfarm instantaneous output on this interactive Europe wide maphttp://rwe-renewableslive.com/#/map/EU
(Shows
– live production in MW ( A minus figure indicates they are drawing from the grid to power the turbines.)
– Installed capacity in MW (nameplate)
– Graph of last 24 hrs
UK’s Windfarms list + other ‘green’ energy sites.
This Interactive map http://www.variablepitch.co.uk/stations/map/ (site is a bit slow)
More details – http://www.variablepitch.co.uk/
gives – Location, Capacity, Actual output, Capacity factor, Tariff details & Income for each site.

West coast of Ireland, North Scotland, Southern Siberia, Mongolia, Aleutian Islands, The south island of New Zealand, Mt Everest, Antarctica, bottom ¼ of South America, is where they will work consistently…. all you have to do ts persuade people & company’s to move there, I’m sure the greens will be selling up & moving there any day soon.

Siemens is putting new wind power investment plans in the UK on hold …

Sounds TERRIFIC!
“Truman Show” — final scene
(youtube)
“Siemens”: You’re afraid. That’s why you can’t leave. … You can’t leave, “Brit.”
[Oooo, no more windmills for you — think about THAT (lolololo). Yes, indeed, think about that — hooray!]
[The whole world is watching you.]
Cease transmission.”
And the free WORLD IS CHEERING YOU ON!Go, Brits, GO!!! The real world IS “out.” Outside the EU with its simulated climate paradigm. Your handlers will try to make you afraid. “The future of the youth is being ruined!” they will shriek (and the like).
Take a bow, Brit …
smile,
and…
leave!
**************************
Yup. People who like socialism like rules. Rules make them feel safe. Courage, dear timid ones — follow your brave, wise, elders to freedom!
Whoo, hooooooooo! FREEDOM ROCKS!
#(:))
#(:))
#(:))

Stan! Oh, what a happy surprise — that SOMEONE understood me! Yay. I only came back here, just now, thinking about what Marcus wrote, to say that I think one would need to have watched the movie to get it.
And you have. And, yes, I would not want to watch it again, but VERY good movie (well, I would watch it with a friend who had not seen it and that would be fun — I — would — not — breathe — a hint … (smile)).
Thank you for taking the time to tell me!

Windmills should be banned.
Our feathered friends will thank us for it.
The natural beauty of our landscapes will be preserved.
Windmills are a bad mistake that needs correcting, before things are made even worse.

I have been involved in a lot of oil spills; the evidence suggests that they do very little long term ecological harm. It is after all a natural product, and nature can break it down. The forces of nature at sea are particularly adept at doing this.
That said, of course all forms of en come with risk, but the real problem with wind is that it is neither green, nor does it result in the reduction of any significant quantities of CO2 emissions (because of the intermittent and non despatchable nature of wind and the resulting need for 100% backup from conventionally powered generation). Whatever one’s views on CO2 the inescapable fact is that windmill/windturbines do not significantly reduce CO2 and thus fail on their primary objective.

Oil is totally biodegradable. Anyone who owns a diesel boat (as I used to) knows you have to pour hideously toxic biocide into the fuel tank, to stop the ubiquitous marine diesel eating fungus from clogging up the fuel filter.http://www.diesel-bug.com/diesel-bug-information.html

“the evidence suggests that they do very little long term ecological harm.” What a complete load of BS. The last hundred years has seen many ecological disasters caused by oil spills. Just because it eventually breaks down doesn’t mean it is not devastating to wildlife and the communities that rely on harvesting the ocean. Give me a break. There is nothing good about an oil spill. Nothing.

Exxon Valdez was a minor blip. The clean up effort did way more ecological damage than the oil spill did.
I should remind you that it was the idiotic environmentalists who blocked a pipeline from Valdez to the rest of the US that would have made shipping the oil unnecessary.
Oil has been leaking into the environment for millions of years. There are entire branches of micro-biology that have evolved to feed on it.

Patrick MJD June 29, 2016 at 3:36 am
“Simon June 29, 2016 at 3:23 am”
Here’s my comprehensive breakdown.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill#Environmental_impact
Your turn? Provide a (reputable) link that the environmental impact from a serious oil spill is anything but a complete disaster for the life that lives in the area? Otherwise you are just blowing hot air…. and we don’t need any more of that.

“Just because it eventually breaks down doesn’t mean it is not devastating to wildlife and the communities that rely on harvesting the ocean. ”
Depends on the oil grade. Heavy tar is extremely damaging and long lasting, the lighter fractions less so. Often, the ‘bunker oil’ ship’s fuel is the most damaging component, although of course it is smaller in quantity than the cargo.
The main issue with these shipwrecks is that the tankers take routes close to land in order to minimize journey time. If the ship suffers an engine or steering failure near to land, it may be impossible to get a tug to it in time. The solution is to stop the tankers taking such routes.
(BTW yes I do know what I’m talking about, I was on the IT support team for one such investigation, and got to speak to some of the tanker captains present. They underlined commercial pressures to take shortcut routes as the main issue, combined with substandard equipment on some ‘flag of convenience’ vessels.)

Oooo, a pro-Envirostalinist troll (Gates) has showed up to try to frighten us with a big scary photo.
Didn’t work.

Even with this [4/20/10 Gulf] blowout and its 1969 Santa Barbara predecessor, America’s offshore record is excellent. Since 1969, we have drilled over 1,224,00 wells in state waters and on the Outer Continental Shelf. There have been 13 losses of well control involving more than 50 barrels: five were less than 100 barrels apiece; one was a little over 1,000 barrels; two (both in 1970) involved 30,000 barrels or more. … What should we do …? Recognize that life, technology and civilization involve risks. …

“And… walking… with chins held high, …”
….maybe over the edge of a cliff !! …time will tell.
Both main (corrupt) political parties are tearing them selves apart (a good thing).
The far right / neo-Nazis now believe they have a mandate & have already started intimidation & violence to anyone they perceive to be foreign (a bad thing).
Cost of living will rise because it can be blamed on ‘brexit’ & minority’s.
A fine orator will galvanize the faithful, the’ silent majority’ will keep their heads down & mouths shut. (as with CAGW )
I see many parallels with 1930s Germany…& we all know what happened next.
Strange how we keep doing the same thing & expect a different result. #(:-((

Dear, worried, 1save,
You need to go back and read your history of post-WWI Germany and a lot of other books, too.
— Inflation in Germany was through the roof – not so, in the UK today.
— Germany’s citizens were very, very, poor – not so, in the UK, today.
— Anti-semitism had infected the brains of the majority of Germans – not the case in the UK, today.
— The congenital drive of Germans to rule the world is not present in the average UK citizen.
And on and on.
Re: cost of living – that is not determined by politicians in a free society like the UK. Your fear that it will “rise because it can be blamed on” is nonsense. Cost of living is a function of supply and demand. COST OF POWER is a main component, thus, free of the economy-choking windmill and solar chains of the EU, the UK’s economy should start to grow.
You are so afraid, 1save… . Start thinking. Ask yourself (and really, really think about it): “Why am I so frightened of liberty?”
(and you might also ask yourself where you got the silly notion that to “save energy” is a good thing)
Courage!
Janice

Dear Janice,
Thank you, so much, for taking the time to instruct me in the history of post-WWI Germany & of the UK as it is today, plus the advice to ‘really, really think about’ things (I’d never have thought about doing that without your erudite counsel); Last night, I lay in bed tossing & turning ( well, I saved the turning for on the lathe in the morning) whilst ruminating on your latest misinformed missive.
From my post – [I see many parallels with 1930s Germany…& we all know what happened next. ]
You say “Inflation in Germany was through the roof” –
Germanys hyperinflation was actually in the 1920s. It was the1930/31 deflation & banking collapse that lead to a mass political change & the subsequent recovery in the mid 1930s with all it brought. Suggested reading:
Economics and Politics in the Weimar Republic. T. Balderston, (2002).
The Coming of the Third Reich. R. Evans, (2003).
When Money Dies: The Nightmare of the Weimar Hyper-Inflation. A. Fergusson, (1975).
A Social History of Western Europe, 1880-1980 By Hartmut Kaelble (1990)
You say “The congenital drive of Germans to rule the world”
Have you no idea what the American government & companies get up to around the world !!
See Luke 6:41
As you said elsewhere, you’ve never set foot in UK so how would you know how our economy works, you obviously have no idea the UK’s ‘green power’ fiasco is home grown. Read the 2008 climate change bill.
The cost of living IS determined by politicians, they set the fiscal framework that the country works to, market forces work within (or around … if they can get away with it) that framework. Read some books on economics.
You mention “Anti-Semitism”, just substitute that with ‘anti-Islamic’ or with the more extreme right wing groups, anyone who can’t trace British ancestry of 100yrs.
Even I’m shocked at the number of incidents of xenophobic abuse directed at minorities since Brexit
You say “(and you might also ask yourself where you got the silly notion that to “save energy” is a good thing)”
I did & found I got that notion from observing stupid Americans who think they have a ‘god given right’ to consume anything & everything to achieve ‘The American Dream’ & often throw in a bible quote to justify it.
Take oil; on average, every US citizen consumes 22.4 barrels per year almost three times that of a European citizen (7.95 barrels per year), more than 8 times the consumption of a Chinese citizen (2.78 barrels per year), more than twenty times the consumption an Indian citizen (1.1 barrel per year) [Source: 2015 World Oil & Gas Review]
Americans also consume per capita –
3x world average of meat, https://data.oecd.org/agroutput/meat-consumption.htm
6x world average of plastic http://www.pardos-marketing.com/paper_h04.htm
Electricity- 2.5x more than a Brit, http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.USE.ELEC.KH.PC
And on and on. See Ezekiel 16:49
Janice, I humbly suggest you spend more time reading & assimilating history books & less time practicing puerile pomposity.
I confess to having broken this rule – Proverbs 26:4 – but it was fun !!
I remain, your obedient servant, I saveenergy.

“I am not suggesting climate was the core issue for most Brexit voters, though I suspect it played a part”
Not specifically climate science, it’s epistemology in general.
And yes, I know many brexiters couldn’t even explain epistemology means, they may care about epistemology, because they are decent people.

I doubt you could explain to me mycorrhizal symbiosis, but you might care about mycorrhizal symbiosis because you are ‘decent people’.
Seeing as you are talking about the theory of knowledge you have actually produced a fairly circular self defeating argument there!

Reblogged this on Patti Kellar and commented:
“To put it another way, people who are one or two paycheques away from homelessness have no time for politicians who promise to make their energy bills skyrocket, if someone makes the effort to offer them an alternative.”

The Asian Development Bank requires a REAL rate of economic return of 12% on water supply, sanitation, solid waste projects for projects that are not self-financing, which none are.
But subsidized wind and solar and biofuel projects are self-financing.
If a consulting firm does not demonstrate the feasibility of a project, they risk not getting paid.

Siemens shoots itself in the foot, as a sign of displeasure regarding the Brexit vote!

I have noticed that all of a sudden I have seem wind turbine masts heading north on US25 on my way to work in the morning all week, so it looks like GE is doing some work. I’m sure they’d be more that happy to help the Brits out as well.

My blog is one of Theology and Volunteering but I randomly learned how to search the most popular blogs on wordpress.
What I found was the top ones are all coming out of subjects about Brexit.
This is really something the world is curious about. I know as someone in Canada we are watching with very curious eyes.
The number #1 and number #2 blogs are just swamped after a single post on the subject. The number #2 had to even close her blog for the amount of emails and comments she was receiving!
I really hope this works out positively for the people within the UK.
This is a tense moment for sure.

Green companies live off government subsidies and without subsidies Green company will suddenly cease to exist. Will subsidies continue and if so how large will they be?. It will be interesting to see who starts dumping their stocks BEFORE questions about subsidies are answered. Smart investors will be getting out now because the Loss Risk is too great.
Eugene WR Gallun

PEAK RENEWABLES…
as soon as the subsidies are removed.
Then they break, maintenance stops and the renewables are no longer renewed.
And who will tidy up the mess? The taxpayer, of course, because the scammers who took all those subsidies will have syphoned them all off to the Caymans

I’m sure the politically connected will have their money out just before the subsidy gravy train is stopped – and that they of course will escape any “insider trading” charges to boot! Sort of the opposite end of Gore walking out smiling after he convinced “Dubya” to essentially outlaw the incandescent light bulb, with Gore’s “investment” in manufacturers of crappy CFL light bulbs nobody otherwise wanted undoubtedly already in hand.

The greens promised politicians that if they poured massive subsidies into off-shore wind then costs would rapidly fall to parity with conventional generation. Such that subsidies could be removed. So-called “priming the pump”. However, no pump was being primed. This was simply a ruse to shift vast amounts of public money into private hands.
However, naturally politicians did expect these economies of scale to progressively kick in.
Some more savvy representatives of the people did not anticipate subsidizing turbines forever. And so the March budget made some demands that future subsidies are reduced.
Since the pretended economies of scale have not had such a fabulous effect in reality, then if dramatic reductions in subsidy are put into effect then most future off-shore wind expansion would be uneconomical and will not occur.
Putting wind turbines in the middle of the sea was always a daft and expensive thing to be doing.
When the free money stops – it stops.
Current subsidy prices work out at about three times the usual wholesale electricity price – as far as I can determine.
So we pay three times as much for an energy source that is totally unreliable and can not provide the energy we need as and when we need it.
Let’s hope that the money and enthusiasm for this nonsense run out at some point soon.

There may be an altogether different reason for this waning of interest:
Quoting from link below – [Shortly after the decision was announced in the budget, Chris Willow, an associate director at BVG Associates, said the budget statement contained some long-anticipated clarity on the support offshore wind can expect to receive in the next decade but also revealed a stark reality for the UK offshore wind industry – it has until the middle of the 2020s to reach cost parity with combined-cycle gas turbines (CCGTs).
“For projects being commissioned in 2021, the government has capped the strike price for a contract for difference (CFD) at £105/MWh. Our modelling suggests this is equivalent to a levelised cost of energy (LCOE) of £97 to £100/MWh, depending on factors such as project lifetime and the cost of capital. For projects being commissioned in 2026, the strike price falls to £85/MWh, which is equivalent to an LCOE of £80 to £82/MWh. Note that all these costs are in 2011/12 prices,” he explained.
“This level of support shows the government is pushing the industry to go beyond its previous expectations of what could be achieved. In the 2012 Offshore Wind Cost Reduction Pathways Study, The Crown Estate said the industry should reach an LCOE of £100/MWh for projects reaching final investment decision (FID) in 2020 if it had confidence in a market of sufficient volume.”]
More at: http://www.owjonline.com/news/view,budget-sets-course-for-offshore-wind-to-be-subsidy-free-in-a-decade_42495.htm

Unsurprisingly Siemens would like us all to embrace a completely new and revolutionary analysis for working out how much their products cost.
YES – you too can be bamboozled into believing that Siemens products are much cheaper than the money spent on them over the course of their lifetime.
Forget boring old regular pricing and use the new Siemens cost calculation where interestingly Siemens renewable products suddenly appear to be an attractive and competitive alternative.
Never has selling expensive stuff to idiots been easier than with the new Siemens cost calculator.
You might imagine that I joking. But I just found this brochure which is recommending exactly that:http://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/pool/hq/power-generation/renewables/wind-power/SCOE/Infoblatt-what-is-the-real-cost-of-offshore.pdf

About the loss of 1000 jobs: restart the power stations and bring back the steel industry, one of the oldest and finest in the world. Very high quality steel for things as simple as trowels comes from the UK because of the skill needed to make it. There are a lot more jobs in steel than in windmill blades. Plus, the steel industry pays taxes and the wind industry absorbs them.

The high tech end of the UK steel industry is alive and well and living in Sheffield. It’s low end, high volume steel production that Britain can’t compete with, all for good historical geographical as well as economic reasons.

And an interesting study here, of the expected costs of a variety of off-shore wind technologies.
It looks at the impact of factors such as number of turbines in an array, distance to shore and depth of water. It seems that no matter what configuration is used – even those with the best expectations come in at over 120euros/MWh. And the most expensive configurations were upward of 250euro/MWh.
Expect the 250euro arrangement to be deployed on a coast near you soon.
Politicians have a keen talent for picking the most expensive item on the menu.
And note that Portugal already installed a 2MW turbine with a “complex and steel-intensive sub-structure with a mass of about 2500 tons”. So anything is possible. No matter how dumb!!!http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148114000469

Hoplite June 29, 2016 at 12:21 am
Our stack exchange index, the FTSE is, today, currently higher that it was 1 month ago, 3 months ago at 12 months ago.
The initial falls were just speculators taking a profit or covering losses from a wrong guess on BREXIT.
The UK pound movement cause our exports to be cheaper, sounds good to me and many others in the real world.
It means our holidays abroad will be slightly more expensive but you can not have everything.
Looking at the pound/USD it is still no worse (for who?) than 5 years ago.
Exchange rate do move all the time.

Lets give the current financial turmoil some historic context..
This first link shows the FTSE since its inception in 1984http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/ftse100/10544527/FTSE-100-celebrates-30th-birthday.html
Its around 6150 today. The highs and lows are noted. The low point in the last five or six years was only 3500 in 2009. However it had been slightly lower than that around 2003. It looks like it has been on a roller coaster ride and it is only if dividends are reinvested that any profit will be shown over a 20 year investment horizon.
The bounce yesterday might prove to be a dead cat one as people take their profits. It is only when it starts to get down to around 3500 I will start to worry
As for the dollar, here is a historical chart since 1915 when it was around 5 dollars to a pound .http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/dollhist.htm
The catastrophic falls around 1977 and 1985 show up well, although again the pound has risen and fallen sharply many times since then, but is on an overall decline. When I got my first job around 1970 it was some 2.50 to the pound, with almost parity in 1985.
The loss of a few cents over the last few days is neither here nor there when it has declined some 70% from its historical peak and is only half what it was worth when i started working.
Its far too early yet to see if this is a blip or the start of a real financial crisis.
tonyb

Pound down due to speculative expectation of usual QE response.
Interest rate already near zero – therefore QE only response available.
More GBP in circulation means devaluation of value of GBP.
Essentially, Osborne warned/explained that this would be the response/excuse upon Brexit.
So, speculators factored that in and were ahead of the curve when the election betting went past even odds to Brexit as favourite at 2.30a.m.
i.e. this was a response to expected policy of the BoE, not a vote on confidence in the UK economy.
They were correct of course, because the following morning Carney announced £250billion of available “support” i.e. more made up money to flood the system and devalue the currency.

China and India, the rest of the world as you put it, will not care one dime! Personally, having seen the damage the unelected in the EU inflicted on the UK since 1973, I say good riddance to the EU.
And, since the EU imposes restrictions and quotas etc on various countries in the “Union” we see milk lakes, meat mountains, butter mountains, food mountains most of which go to waste while millions go hungry!

wolfho, do you live here, in Britain? I say that because we will now have £1.1 BILLION A MONTH to spend as we wish. We can carry on funding those projects that were funded by the EU (with our money!) and still have £706 million a month to spend. The pound will be lower, helping exports, and imports will be cheaper if we remove trade barriers. We don’t actually need to trade with the EU as much as they need to trade with us, so we certainly don’t have ‘open borders’!

“wolfho June 29, 2016 at 2:38 am
UK making a mess of themselves is okay because:”
Nope! Just left leaning alarmist media are making a mountain out of a molehill and the EU reacting like a petulant child. Yes, over 40 years of EU bullcarp will have to be removed from the UK. And I say, if Norway and Switzerland can operate quite well without being in the EU, then so too can the UK, as she was before 1973.

“I say that because we will now have £1.1 BILLION A MONTH to spend as we wish”
You know Farage reclaimed that figure afterwards right? After the vote was passed “oh yeah the number I claimed was a mistake”

“wolfho June 29, 2016 at 3:15 am”
Too funny. YouTube (YT) videos lol. I am working on a project here in Australia with someone who values YT videos as “truth”. He quoted a client, totally out of my control, with what the person said in the YT video as the cost of some software. And that “price” was quoted and submitted to the client. He war so wrong you would not believe. Damage done!

The way UK NHS procurement works is that its likely £350m would get a couple of beds, pillows and a beaker/mug. Then there is PFI payments, so anything thrown at the International NHS won’t go far at all. Mainly trousered!

wolfho, as you can’t do maths, the £350 million a week quoted was the total UK contribution before the rebate. However, I CAN do maths, and my fugure of £1.1 billion was AFTER the rebate. Try using a calculator, mate. We REALLY will have £1.1 billion a month to spend – that was going to the EU. If we carry on paying for projects that were covered (so still covering them, like payments to Cornwall etc.) then we will STILL have over £700 million a month to spend!

bazzer
Its worse than that though as there is the cost of compliance with EU rules whether you trade with them or not. This covers all sorts of things but in particular emissions trading, financial and farming. Some of these are highly desirable anyway, some not. From some we get a positive financial advantage, others we do not.
Total cost of compliance taking everything into account is said to something around £20 billion for UK businesses and other organisations
tonyb

Great, so more money saved then. If the downward export trade to the EU continues at the rate it’s been going for some years, the UK won’t be exporting anything to the EU within 30 years, and everything to the rest of the world.

It was all very well for the EU to say allow free entry to all to Europe but few want to stay in Europe. English is for many of them an equal first language so they all want to come here and we are ten times as crowded as many other EU countries already.
The pound is in inevitable decline until we start to see that climate change was a fraud and use the potential cheap energy we have to revive industry and kick out the wind and solar industries from mainstream energy to the fringe it belongs in.
Above all in the long term we cannot afford to have secret deals done by Brussels negotiators as when they fail to notice a side effect of an agreement it is potentially disastrous. It is often those on the fringe notice problems while those closely involved only see the core.

No these poor people have been conned into selling off all of their worldly goods to buy passage for outrageous sums from predatory human traffickers based on pie in the sky lies. When they finally get there they find themselves thrown into a society they have no chance to adjust to. They can’t learn the language, they have no saleable skills a lot of the food is pork based and German Women are not prudish about showing skin. There is no way for a Muslim to adapt from living in a Sharia based society to German Society. EU is simply being inhumane allowing it to continue.

FTSE 100 has closed ABOVE pre-breixt level, at 6,360. “The pound also strengthened against the dollar and euro.”http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
Hey, Hoplite, how’s the Punt doing? Oh, I forgot, Ireland went for the Euro.

“The pound is in inevitable decline until we start to see that climate change was a fraud and use the potential cheap energy we have to revive industry and kick out the wind and solar industries from mainstream energy to the fringe it belongs in.”
Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Chuck in a cable through the Chunnel and flog the power at exorbitant Green prices to the Euroweenies who love that stuff. I think ‘Remain Power’ would be a good name for the new entity and the marketing campaign.

The “cry of rage” link is to a Hull Daily Mail article. Reading the readers’ comments on the article is very instructive and gives the absolute lie to the remainer meme that brexit supporters are all ignorant, bigoted, stupid racists who voted against their own interests. In fact the leavers are rational and largely discerning about the EU as opposed to the disappointed remainers who have decided to act like the whiny-arsed spoilt children they are.

“I am not suggesting climate was the core issue for most Brexit voters, though I suspect it played a part. It is getting harder to deny the role climate regulations play in high profile heavy industry job losses in working class areas.”
It was not an issue – end of. The Brussels monolithic un elected government was the issue.

It does seem very much like the crowd moved from Moscow to Brussels. Different last names, same basic ideas. They are about halfway to collapse from the top if exits of the controlled states do not occur, just as with the USSR on a ca. 80 year capital wasting and dissipation and enslvement cycle.

Out of curiousity, does anyone know what happens to Airbus from all this? The partnership between Britian, France and Germany has its origins before the EU was formed. Do those operating agreements remain in force without the enclosing structure of the EU, or does it all have to be re-negotiated?

MarkW – don’t be silly. Every country or market has access rules. No country (read EU market for country) has unfettered access to its markets to all and sundry. It’s only ‘vindictive’ if you regard every country on earth as vindictive for having such rules. The EU cannot allow a country like Britain access the market on unfair terms and take form the business of internal countries in that market. If it does so then the whole market will collapse (the actual long term intention of the English who have always opposed any European integration – that’s why De Gaulle blocked the UK’s entry as he saw them as only entering it to destroy it). The 17 million who voted out don’t get to dictate the market’s collapse to the other 491 million citizens of the EU.

Hoplite, reading this, it seems Trump’s your man. You’ve restated his central plank. Good thing these brilliant politicians and wannabees should decide who we mere mortals can buy from and how much the skim to the state’s gonna be should we deal with their approved sellers. Great to see so much 19th century thought on display. Just gatekeeping, plain and simple. Gatekeepers collect tolls and other, ahem, rewards.

Mr. Swinden,
You make a good point. However, while the EU is trumpeting this demand with all the pomposity it can muster, now…, the terms of each contract between the UK and an EU member nation will be negotiated ad hoc.
The most likely result of this silly threat by the EU (to attempt to control the immigration policy of the UK) will be: MORE countries will join the UK and walk OUT. For, the UK will simply insist that its immigration policy is non-negotiable — yup, they would prefer to deal with the UK than to remain in the club.
So, hooray! The EU is disintegrating from within. Keep it up, Envirostalinists! You are doing GREAT!
#(:))
Janice

‘The US trades with the EU.’
Under WTO rules, not as part of the single market.
As for the EU making ‘silly threats’ and ‘the UK holds all the aces’, then the UK has decided it wants to leave the club, but still wants the best aspects of membership although not those that it doesn’t like. The EU are simply saying that it cant cherry-pick. In or out.
If it doesn’t stop raining tomorrow I may write a more considered piece on the difference between the US and Europe. It will also try and explain why the EU is not about to disintegrate.

MarkW – don’t be silly again. No one, and I mean no one, has proposed or suggested that the UK be barred from trading with the EU. That’s only in your head and the Murdoch press (about as true as CAGW). EU is rejecting a special sweetheart deal for the UK. If the UK cannot accept the four principles of the market that everyone must abide by then that is a matter for themselves. Can you give me one good reason why the UK should be allowed to access the market on more favourable terms than anyone else?

Hoplite and Stephen Swindon are right and MarkW and Janice are spectacularly wrong. There is difference between access to market under WTO rules, with tariffs and customs delays etc. and access to the free market the UK currently enjoys. Selling to Germany is the same as selling to the UK. It is not vindictive of the EU to require exactly the same adherence to the rules of membership from the UK as from every other member of the free market. It is common sense. Eventually they will wake up, but don’t expect it soon.

Germany has caused enough trouble in the world. A German dominated EU will give them a victory that two World Wars did not. It is amazing that in this day and age, the ‘science’ minded eco-freaks think a modern industrial society can function on the Wind Power of authoritarian politicians.

UK ministers to approve world-leading carbon emissions targethttps://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/uk-ministers-world-leading-carbon-emissions-reduction-target-climate-changehttps://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/753c3f8e0f6e55ef59290ba3a09d82cb7d958dc5/0_395_3936_2362/master/3936.jpg
Amber Rudd, the energy secretary. Photograph: Dan Kitwood/Getty ImagesMinisters will this week approve a world-leading carbon emissions reduction target for the early 2030s, the Guardian understands.
Fears had been raised by green groups and industry that the EU referendum would cause the UK government to miss a deadline on Thursday for accepting carbon targets from its statutory climate advisers.
But a Whitehall source has confirmed that the so-called fifth carbon budget – put forward by the Committee on Climate Change last November – will be agreed before the month is out, as legally required by the Climate Change Act.
The move commits the UK to a 57% cut in emissions by 2032, on 1990 levels. Although a tougher target than the EU one of a 40% emissions cut by 2030, environmentalists in January said they were disappointed that the committee had not made the target more ambitious after last December’s Paris climate deal.
The commitment should allay anxieties in the green energy sector that last week’s leave vote would water down the UK’s leadership on climate change, or that the decision to approve the budget would be left to the next prime minister.
The insanity goes on!!

THAT, not Brexit, is the stupidity going on the the UK. But at least without their EU overlords (no pun intended), the Brits can now start sacking the idiots who are pushing this needless and self-destructive nonsense.

Yes, but mutual encouragement is a thing. It’s like flamboyant poker payers.
The Europe “never done a proper job in their lives” crowd “regulates” something they don’t understand (and probably will never understand given lack of general scientific culture, willingness to acquire one, willingness to make intellectual efforts and simply a lack of ethics) then the local “never done a proper job in their lives” crowd does a “raise” with additional regulations, etc.

“The move commits the UK to a 57% cut in emissions by 2032, on 1990 levels.”
The UK could cut their emissions by 100 percent if they went 100 percent nuclear power.
Instead, they propose to continue the insanity of trying to use windmills to solve the emissons problem.
The obvious solution is new nuclear powerplants. Windmills are a deadend, that will do much more harm than good, if development is continued, and won’t be the solution, even if it is continued.
There is a simple answer to this problem, that solves all kinds of intractable problems when compared to the alternatives. It’s right there in front of everyone’s face: Modern nuclear powerplants.

If I was Greece, I’d be wondering why lucrative EU handouts are going to England, France and Germany, while Greece is fed a diet of austerity and unsustainable debt.
After the vote, the most googled word was “EU” so apparently a whole lot of people in a lot of countries were getting their first real education about what the EU really is.
The Western world scoffs at China and Russia, with their Central Committees, as undemocratic governments. Oh wait, the EU is run by an unelected and unaccountable central committee? The EU parliament is impotent window dressing to give the appearance of representative democracy? Former national governments are reduced to rump figureheads who cannot independently determine the fate of those they govern? Who knew? How is today’s European Union any different from the previous USSR?
Europe should be called the Union of European Socialist Republics.
Maureen la Penn is right in her analogy with the Berlin Wall. A psychological barrier has been breached and the arrow of history is pointed inexorably in a new direction.
Companies will do what they always do – adapt to the new situation. Smart UK companies will profit greatly from new opportunities. The minute the UK starts, or even threatens, to make independent trade deals with EU countries, the game is over for the UESR.
Intentionally or not, the UK has seized the position of supreme power in Europe. My wife, who happens to be Dutch, thinks that the UK should say “Fine, you don’t want us in the Union, in two weeks we will break all our ties with the EU.” No drawn out “negotiations” and endless hand wringing, and certainly no veto by the parliament (unanimous exit vote required) or the invisible central committee. In her view “Soft doctors make stinking wounds.”
It may not happen quite that quickly, but the psychological dam has broken and I expect many other countries to be speaking up as soon as they see that the UK is indeed not sinking beneath the waves.

MarkW – for once I agree with you. The EU economy, underpinned by the German economy meant that Greece could borrow on the international money markets at cheap rates. So Greek elections became a bidding war over the most public sector jobs at the highest pay and with the best pensions. It reached the point where the state owned railway network had a minimum salary of E55,000 per year; retirement at 55 on a pension of final salary for life. Who wouldn’t vote or that?
The reality arrived. And the bailout, primarily from Germany, meant that Greece could pay back its debts to German banks.

“Nobody “fed” Greece their unsustainable debt.
They did that 100% on their own.”
And they tried to call their debt an “odious debt”, with the “expertise” of an extreme left “expert” group.
But I don’t think they understand what it really means.

‘the EU is run by an unelected and unaccountable central committee?’
Could I suggest that you (and your wife) find out how the EU is run. The major power over any legislation is exercised by the Heads of Government of the Member States in something called the Council of Ministers. You are simply repeating a myth.

Steven, can you vote out any of the Presidents, or any of the Commissioners? If you don’t like how the EU’s transport policy is working out for you, can you, and even every voter in the entire EU, do anything to get Violeta Bulc out of her job? Oh, wait, she’s Slovenian. Can the voters in Slovenia get Violeta Bulc out of her job for you?
The answer to all those questions is no, Steven. Commissioners are appointed by governments that are foreign to you – sometimes not even from within the elected party in that country, and the unelected President gives her a post. You, and all the voters within the EU can’t do anything about it. Even an elected head of state couldn’t do anything about it.
Now, if that’s the sort of democracy you want, then you go and live in North Korea…or the EU.

..Hmmm….When Russia starts taking back the parts of Europe it lost in WW2 and the Cold War, will Europe expect the U.K. to come save them AGAIN ?? I think the Donald would say “Not this time, you made your bed, sleep in it ! ” Liberal socialism has a huge price to be paid by the Middle Class!

Well, I used to be a strong supporter of wind energy in the early days. Even did a few experiments of my own, but found that they returned next to no useful energy. I put that down to them being too small, but I now see that as the general picture. Except in a few favoured locations the capacity factor is very low. Worse, the outages can be weeks in duration, far longer than any conceivable backup strategy could cover.
It’s another of those ideas that look fine of the drawing board but don’t translate into workable engineering.
In many ways solar PV is a more sensible proposition, although it too has its limitations. The cost of PV panels has certainly come down to the point where a spot of experimentation won’t break the bank like it used to.

FTSE 100 has closed ABOVE pre-breixt level, at 6,360. “The pound also strengthened against the dollar and euro.”http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
Hey, Hoplite, how’s the Punt doing? Oh, I forgot, Ireland went for the Euro.

When someone tells me “I’ll never be able to lose weight” I encourage them with “First, just stop gaining weight. That will be a critical psychological waypoint.” The Pound stopped dropping like a stone is the main thing. It will probably stutter some more, but there is a bottom to the loch, by all indications.

As I type the pound is at 1.33946. This amounts to a drop of 12.5% on the value of the pound compared to its average value in 2015 and a 19.1% drop in its average value since 2000. The market expects the pound to drop to about 1.2 or maybe lower. It is currently stable around the 1.32-1.34 level but for how long is anyone’s guess. As you import more than you export that is a problem for your economy – get real.
It is now becoming very apparent that the leaders of the Leave campaign (other than Farage) did not want to win the referendum but to lose it honourably. Now, why is that as clearly, culturally, they are very eurosceptic? The evidence for this is Gove’s wife in her paper column described Brexit as ‘terrifying’ (clearly this view was sanctioned by Gove). Why are Gove and Johnson not talking to the media to outline their Brexit plans. Why are they now blaming the government for a lack of such a plan when the gov didn’t want such an outcome? Extraordinary times, indeed, that would be entertaining if it wasn’t so serious.

Let’s clear some stuff up. As we all knew the pound would drop, there are no surprises, and I note with some relish that you didn’t mention the FTSE100. Ha ha. The pound will fluctuate, the FTSE100 may even fluctuate – so what, Hoplite? So what? What did you expect when a major economic country gets out of a trading system (that has become undemocratically political)? We needed to control our borders, and that’s what we’ll get – and as I have pointed out to you, that supersedes everything else…everything. We could have a pound riding as high as kite, but it would mean nothing if we continue to have a population growth of 500,000 a year! Why can’t you see that? The economy pales into insignificance against a backdrop of primary schools maxed out, 21 days to see a GP, half a day wait at A&E, and huge rises in house prices because there is no land. I’m stunned that you are so narrow-minded that you keep banging on about the pound. WHO CARES?
Your second paragraph is seriously odd, and something I have seen written in some of the newspapers and (of course!) the BBC. Why do you think it’s part of the Leave campaign to ‘have a plan’??? If we had stayed, would the Remain campaign have had a ‘plan’? No! The two campaigns were just that, it’s down to the Government to decide the future, not a Leave campaign. Our Government should have expected the outcome – if they knew what ordinary people are thinking, but they don’t. Hoplite, I can sense that you are a politcial lightweight, but let me tell you that ‘campaigns’ such as the referendum one don’t have plans, they have a single, basic idea. It is then incumbent upon the Government to carry out the peoples’ wishes, not some campaign group!
Lastly, even though I’m 100% for Brexit, it IS terrifying, in the way that a rollercoaster ride is terrifying. It’s exciting and unknown. But I’d rather have that than be shackled to an undemocratic system, run by people in a foreign land who have even less understanding of my life than our current government, and who seem bent on destroying all that my ancestors fought for, for some crazy left-leaning, fascist utopia that will ultimately collapse. Your country is still very much in the EU, and good luck, because you’re going to need it. Britain (probably England & Wales eventually) looks forward to uncertain times, but INDEPENDENT times…something your ancestors once fought us for. Then they went and gave all their independence away! We’re out, for the good, and all those who are wailing are the intellectually-crippled, the vision-less, a few money-men, and some sad freaks.

I think that a lot of people are forgetting that Britain does not have to evoke Article 50 to leave the EU. As a sovereign nation, Britain has the right to abrogate the Lisbon Treaty.
The referendum did not ask if Her Majesty’s Government should evoke Article 50, it asked if Britain should leave the EU. Because the people are the supreme political authority, Britain left the EU on June 23. Leaving is not a future event, it has already occurred. The only thing left to negotiate is what happens in the future.
In my opinion, Britain should not attempt to negotiate with the EU. The EU bureaucrats will do everything they can to enhance their own power to the detriment of the remaining member nations.
All negotiations should be directly with the governments of the other European nations. And negotiations should be public; the peoples of Europe have the right to know their governments’ positions.

Martin Mayer,
I watched the PMs long session with the MPs a couple of days ago (Monday) and he insisted that all of the UK’s financial obligations to the EU will be honored until Article 50 is invoked, and even after that, until terms are settled. If one is still paying membership dues, isn’t one still in the club?

Fair enough. But Merkel and her henchmen are insisting on an abrupt exit, in essence saying “You’ve made your bed, now wallow in it immediately, for our gratification, do.” They’ll make it as painful as possible, as an example for other members contemplating pushing off.

‘Because the people are the supreme political authority,’
Perhaps you need to find out more about what passes for a constitution in the UK. Parliament is sovereign. It may come as a shock to some of the US readers, but here in the UK I am not a citizen. I am a subject of the crown. And it is the Monarch’s ministers, drawn from the majority in Parliament, who advise the Monarch as to treaty obligations. Although incorporating EU law into UK law is a result of the European Communities Act 1972 – a matter of statute. So in terms of UK law, how we leave is an open question. If only we had a written constitution……..

I disagree. UK subjects became citizens under the British Nationality Act of 1948.
The UK (and each of the other EU member nations) is a signatory of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948). Article 21 (3) states: “The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government…” When King George VI gave his royal assent, he recognized the supremacy of the people. Thus, the concept was recognized in UK law before the EU existed.
I agree that a written constitution is desirable. However, I should point out that there is no mechanism for a national referendum in the US constitution. The American people are not able to exercise direct democracy. (Some of the states allow state-wide referendums, others do not.)

“The French on the other hand plan to go forward with the nuclear project in southwest England.”
I certainly hope not. There are NO reactors of this design online anywhere in Europe. Some are being built elsewhere and have run into construction problems. The cost of the thing is insane.
Perhaps now we’re out of the EU we could have a wider choice available. Go for something with a proven track record.

“Some are being built elsewhere and have run into construction problems”
Also a lot of regulatory problems. The safety standards are just insane. There were so many rebars Bouygues couldn’t manage to fill the space between, and the pool concrete was highly defective, had to be destroyed and redone!!!!
Also, trying to forge a reactor (or anything) without metal defaults is patently absurd. Just because it is nukular doesn’t mean it has to be perfect, just good enough. Better than other industries is good enough. Worse, there have tried to hide the forging defaults!!!!
The old generation of reasonable regulation people is gone; the new one has a noxious no-compromise mind. The industry has been destroyed by the new generation!
Also, the radiation protection standards are diving deeper into craziness, with “acceptable” levels much too low, except for air companies of course. (!)
The French IRSN seems hell-bent on no safe level dogma, but, unlike the NAS, the French Academy of Sciences isn’t completely antiscience.

According to the “social media”, all you oldies who support the exit are thick and uneducated and should not be allowed to vote (or was it “put down”). I am pleased to join you and watch the rest of the EU implode as it tries to take control of the different cultures across the members and meld them into the German image. Already OZ, NZ, Mexico and others are in the line to discuss trade deals. There are 500M potential customers in the EU and 2.3Bn in the rest of the emerging nations. Who would you head for? As Farage says, we will not be the last to leave. Have a nice day all.

In a good and healthy relationship you are better off being not too much depending on each other. Even, if you ultimately can let go of the other, this means you can accept the other party as is. This mutual respect and freedom may be the very glue to keep the relationship happy and stable.
When you are too much depending on each other, it is not so much a relationship, it becomes more of a bonding, if not a prison.
So a majority of Britain wanted to leave the EU. The fear mongering before, and the cramped reaction from the leadership on the continent afterwards, show perfectly how bad the relationship is, and how healthy and much needed the vote for Brexit.
You can trow all the economic and euro-political arguments on one big worthless heap. People deciding for themselves trumps everything. With this episode unfolding you can clearly differentiate between the phony and the true democrats.

Well said, Jurgen. It has all the appearance of an unhealthy, “co-dependent,” relationship. Good for the “LEAVE” voters to get healthy!
(P.S. Thank you, so much, for taking the time to instruct me about the very odd behavior of the auto-fill (not working) in the WUWT reply comment box. I appreciated your warning that it looked “not too good.” I ended up having “The Geek Squad” (of Best Buy stores) tinker with things (have NO idea what they did except a bunch of updates were loaded). It still did not work for a couple of months, but, NOW (*!poof!* computer magic, lol), it is working fine! That you cared enough to try to help was a great gift in itself to me.)

Olympic athletes are freezing semen because of the Zika virus. And we all know the spread of the Zika virus is caused by global warming. So global warming might have caused these Siemens freezing, too.

‘So, let me get this straight… the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they’d all done nothing to help them.
Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn’t lose, did – but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who’d always thought he’d lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash – and he was, but it did, but he’s not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can’t become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.
Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party’s view of this view is the opposite of the opposition’s. And the opposition aren’t yet opposing anything because the leader isn’t listening to his party, who aren’t listening to the country, who aren’t listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there’s not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful. ‘
credit – Benjamin Timothy Blaine
Kinda sums it all up really

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