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As my husband was trying to redirect him outside after he'd…

As my husband was trying to redirect him outside after he'd relieved himself in the kennel, he reached for the dog's collar and he bit him. Am trying to figure out if this aggression can be fixed.

Veterinarian's Assistant: I'll do all I can to help. Strange behavior is often perplexing. I'm sure the Veterinarian can help you.

Ok

Veterinarian's Assistant: What is the dog's name and age?

Blue, he's about 9 mos old.

Veterinarian's Assistant: Is there anything else the Veterinarian should be aware of about Blue?

Great Dane - so he's BIG. Has always been kind otherwise. My parents said they witnessed a few things the other day that they thought were aggressive behaviors... but I don't know if this was because they really were, or because they knew he had bit my husband earlier that day.

Submitted: 21 days ago.Category: Dog Training

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

This was the first/only time we'd seen any evidence of aggression. Later that day, we had some people over he ahd never met and my parents thought he was acting like he would attack them (particularly the male). I'm not sure if there was additional behavior that was truly aggressive, but that they knew of the bite earlier that day and interpreted a neutral behavior as aggressive.I'm not sure what to do or how to correct the behavior - can aggression be untrained? Particularly in a very large dog (Great Dane). We do have a 2 year old daughter we need to keep safe.

Hello and welcome. My name is ***** ***** I have been in the dog field for 25 years. I am a Therapy Dog & AKC Evaluator/trainer/ as well as an assistance/service dog trainer, specializing in behavior. It will be my pleasure to help you today. I am working on your question now. It may take a few minutes for me to type a personal response or type questions regarding your situation. Your patience is very much appreciated.

Much is going to depend on the reason for aggression. Is it fear aggression, possession aggression, or alpha aggression?

How does your dog act around strangers at the onset? Does he back away? Doe he move forward barking and when the person does not move from that then what does the dog do?

Have you ever had a temperament test done on him?

Are you currently training him and if so what method?

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

He’s never shown ANY aggression before. I haven’t even witnessed any of it. What my parents “saw” was towards a stranger - but not sure how much was aggression versus curiosity versus “he bit earlier so everything is aggression”.What is a temperament test and how do we get one done? No real training method so far that I know of. Working on kennel training - which has been good with rare accidents. He gets along well with the other dogs. Has been good with me and our daughter. We don’t let him alone with her.My parents said he was following the strangers - particularly the man - “and it wasn’t friendly”. I didn’t see anything. My dad held him outside by his collar - he was a bit excited and my parents thought he was trying to bite my dad “but I wasn’t going to let him”. I was more with my daughter inside and caring for her versus the dog. My husband is ready to put him down. I’m concerned but uncertain if it’s aggression or a single bad moment leading to all other behavior being treated as such

Thank you for that information. You can find a qualified trainer in your area and have a temperament test done and I would strongly recommend this. If the dog is possessive aggressive, then I would not have it around your daughter.

IF it is fear aggressive then strangers are going to make it scared and react. As humans , we do many things wrong with a fear aggressive dog which causes a bite.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

A temperament test can tell us what type of aggression it is, then?And some types are correctable?

Yes it should give you an idea if the dog is acting out of fear,possession or alpha aggression, though I doubt it is the last one. I think you are dealing more with fear. If that is the case , the only way to correct it is to correct the humans that come in contact with it.Things like reaching out to pet or grab, talking to it, and making eye contact when it feels fearful are what causes the human to be bit.

One thing that also much be looked into is if he is ill and this is causing aggression.

IF you are looking for a dog safe for the family, then I would suggest before bringing a dog home you hire someone to do a temperament test on it.

People usually gravitate to the dog in the back of the litter, the one that is hiding because they feel bad for it, but that is the wrong dog to pick unless you plan on a being a hermit and don't entertain or expect much from it.

Someone with experience would do fine with this dog.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

My husband bought him from a breeder before even meeting him. We’ve had him since April or May somewhere (he was born 2/14 and he was some 8-16 weeks old I think). No issues until now. He’s a puppy still, so he bounces and gets excited. He also climbs in our laps, licks, and has been so sweet.I can see where in the moment with my husband it may have been fear - we were admittedly irritated (he had peed twice in the kennel/crate that morning & he went to the wrong door to go outside - we were gonna put him on back porch to clean up) and hubby grabbed his collar to redirect. I could see him interpreting that as threatening/scary.I have no idea what - if anything - happened with the strangers. He may have been just following. He’s historically been friendly and approached everyone he’s met. Barks when people come to door, but what dog doesn’t? Never seen him snarl. He whimpers a lot, he’s a big baby.... but that’s it.I found a place locally that says they do aggression consultation. I’m guessing I can call them and ask about consultion & temperament assessment- and look into training as well.We need to keep us and our kid safe.... but it’s hard to imagine a dog who has always been good suddenly changing and being a bad dog in the absence of abuse. I’m at such a loss on it!

I agree, it may have been the circumstance at the time and it may not really have been aggression but a reaction to how he was being handled. This can make a big difference.

As for outings, hang a bell on the door you want him to go out for potty and ring it each time you take him out for potty. Eventually he will begin to ring it to go outside. Also when you take him out to potty use a potty command such as his name and "go potty." Puppies get distracted easily and often times forget why they are outside so that redirect helps them to focus.

Training positively is easily done at home. I will put some links below on clicker training. The clicker costs about 2 dollars in a pet store.

Watch the videos to see how it is done.

Expect accidents because dogs backslide , especially as they grow and go through adolescence.

Thank you. I have a lot to talk to my husband about when we get home. Will propose the aggression consult and temperament eval, with plans to follow up for additional training as needed. Will mention, too, that it seems highly probable our frustration translated to his behavior.I know potty training accidents will happen - and this one was likely in part because during the week he goes out at a certain time, it was that time on the weekend, and he hadn’t gone out. So the accident is in part us (tho as he gets older, he will get better, I’m sure). I know Great Danes are supposed to be a good breed, gentle. I’d like to learn how to be able to keep him, and an open to having him separate from our daughter until we work out what’s going on and then still no unsupervised time. I don’t want any of our animals around her unsupervised.

I also want to make a point that if your husband did not see how the puppy was kept by the breeder or do a visit to the breeder's property that could be part of the problem.Where did he find the breeder?

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

The breeder is a friend of a friend of his - he told him about the gentleman. He would have been on the property (I assume) when he picked up the pup. I was home with our daughter while he went.I’ve encouraged him to reach out to breeder - a friend of mine suggested that too. What are your thoughts?

It is a bit difficult to make diagnosis over computer unless there were more specific detail.

I might reach out to the breeder as some breeders have a temperament test done, so that would save some time and money if that happened.

Possession aggression will display itself when you are trying to take something he values away from him.This could be food, toys, bones, people , space. If you have not noticed that type of reaction then what you saw may have been fear induced, and only at the moment because of what was going on.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

I’ve never seen him get upset when anything is taken from him. The baby is irritated if he’s in my lap (she wants to be there too) - but he hasn’t shown aggression when he’s relocated for her or another dog is given attention or anything like that. He’s always been good going into his crate and never upset to be put in there. The little dog was growling at him, and hubby put them in one crate for her to learn to get along with him.... and he was 100% fine sharing that space. We had guests over day before he hadn’t met before and he was fine with them too.

Oh no! What we do as humans does not work for dogs. Your husband had put both of them in a stressful situation. If the little dog is growling it is for a reason and things could escalate over time if he continues to treat them like they are human children. They are dogs and live differently by different set of rules between them. It is one thing to have them obey a command , but you can't make two dogs see what they did wrong by placing them in the same space. Nor does yelling or body language teach them anything more than they should fear being around you for whatever reason. This will cause a reaction very much like what happened to your husband when he took the dog out of the pen.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

The two of them seem fine now (and it’s a legit huge kennel), but will def keep that in mind. The little one, to me, is the scarier dog and has shown more signs of aggressive potential (a lot of growling at new dogs in particular, also at the cats).From what you’ve said - and I know I’ve only got so much info I can give - it seems to be fear based. Angry person trying to direct him from front door to back door by grabbing collar doesn’t work for him. When I was outside with him earlier, he let me slide hand into collar no problem. I touched him, patted him, petted him.... no issues. He cried when left alone. So I think he wants/likes people. My gut is that he’s not a bad dog - tho biting isn’t okay. One more bite and I would probably be ready to evict.

Aggression toward Family When dogs threaten or bite family members, the number one reason is fear. This is the case especially when reached for or touched, even when it seems the dog’s behavior is offensive. Other possible explanations include object guarding (possessiveness), handling issues (discomfort/pain/frustration).

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

I remembered a minute ago - while rocking my baby - I was trying to think of times we’ve taken things away from him. It doesn’t happen much. I’ve had to take the baby’s toys from him - and even remove cat toys from his mouth (he was trying to eat/swallow it whole) with no aggression at all. And you’d think that if something were going to trigger possession grabbing something literally out of his mouth would do it.To me, fear makes the most sense. Usually he’s direct verbally - we don’t even use a leash on him outside because he listens to us well. He went where he usually goes right when leaving his kennel/crate - heads to front door - and didn’t understand he was supposed to go to patio door instead. I kinda feel like I’m excusing bad behavior, but I do kinda feel this one is us, and didn’t see what my parents interpreted as aggressive. I saw him trying to follow people where they were going. I didn’t see what my parents were worried about, just a response of trying to be around the people in the backyard when in a novel situation.... and that hubby was still irritated with him.Let’s say temperament test comes back and they’re all “not an aggressive animal at all. Sunshine and butterflies.” Basically if they can’t get him to do what he did the other day. What would that mean?And if temperament does test was done by breeder, does temperament change in new environment? I know it’s largely stable in people, but changes can happen (I’m a psychologist, so human behavior is my thing).

If a dog is born fearful, they dog will remain fearful though it's life, however depending on when it goes through fear imprints in its life and how they are handled can determine how he will be as an adult at 2- 4 years old. All dogs go through fear imprints from birth to 4. Those imprints can be lasting or a dog can fully recover, depending on it's personality. It's like making a fearful person to go to a party when they normally wouldn't , it's going to have an affect on them.

A fear response in a dog is lashing out when they feel trapped and certainly the dog would feel trapped in a crate and if your husband was angry at the dog it just carried over to a bite out of fear.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

He wasn’t in the crate when it happened. Each of the dogs is trained to go to the crate at night and when asked. They all seem very comfortable in their crates. It’s their space. We don’t reach into them at all. We open doors and invite out (which they love of course).It happened at our front door, which is a wide open space. Just not the door he wanted him to go out (no safe place to allow him outside for us to clean on that side of house - would need supervision versus back door/patio). So he went to the wrong door, hubby grabbed to redirect. I still suspect it was fear, but he wasn’t confined, wasn’t in an area where he couldn’t get away.He generally does not act fearful. There are moments where I’ll see him shy away when he’s being told “no” (hubby has a loud voice), but that’s it. He doesn’t tend to cower or avoid people/animals at all

I see, I misread it, I thought the dog went potty in the crate and your husband reached in to take him out.

So the trigger can be your husband, if your husband is the reprimanding type.

When we train service dogs, we find there is no need to be reprimanding, just teach the proper commands and use them.

No basically means nothing to a dog , a dog has not been taught that as a command and it is very overused and overheard in a home on a daily basis. Instead use a phrase that was taught such as leave it.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago

They are all usually excited to leave their “bed” - hubby and I both work full time, so they are crated during the day (I think this is what most working pet parents do) and it’s important for us to know they are safe and our home is safe. I also think it’s important for us to respect their space (tho they will often lay on backs in crates when our daughter walks by - it’s too cute)What I’m learning is a few things here:(1) he’s not hopeless(2) get him assessed to see what’s going on - very real possibility it’s a fluke to a crappy set of circumstances since he hasn’t shown this pattern before(3) extra supervision around our daughter (hubby agreed to only bringing him around her when he and I are both there AND with other dogs crated) as we all learn together(4) raising voice doesn’t work - and when tension is up something like reaching for collar may be perceived as threatening. So WE need to be calm - and also be aware he may not like having collar grabbed(5) we probably need to work more on socialization. Will have to figure out ways to do that safely. He hasn’t been around a ton of new people - we are boring parents who are at home a lot. So introducing him to more people and helping him learn more would help.

You got it right. I think it was a fluke and learning more about dog behavior can help the whole family.

I wish you the best of a long happy life as your baby grows up with him:)

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