I've finally sent away for my pistol license and am looking at IPSC production division. Other than hand loads, what ammunition do you reccomend?

lmccrock

October 10, 2012, 06:11 AM

I would say Atlanta Arms because they make a Production-specific load, but noting your location, it is probably not available.

You may have to experiment to find a feel you like. I like heavy-for-caliber bullets loaded with small amounts of fast powder. More of a push, less snap. But others want snappy because they believe it runs faster and that means lighter bullets and more, slower powder.

Just be sure to get a gun on the approved list, IPSC Production List (http://www.ipsc.org/rules/proddiv.php).

smenkhare

October 10, 2012, 06:39 AM

Hey lmccrock
yeah I'm looking at either the glock 17A or the springfield XD (unfortunately no G34)
and thanks for the suggestion

zincwarrior

October 10, 2012, 07:26 AM

What about the standard manufacturer loads: Winchester, Remington, Federal. How do they compare etc. for competition? Its interesting, as I've heard a lot about mediocre or "range ammunition," but little on what is good ammunition for competition or other non SD uses.

BillM

October 10, 2012, 07:35 AM

Remington/UMC 115 gr FMJ is about the softest shooting over the counter
9mm ammo I've tried, as well as being the cheapest around here.

Chrono's just over the 125 pf floor in most full size guns---but it's close.
If you are shooting a major match with chrono, be sure to check it in
YOUR gun---going sub-minor and shooting "for fun" really isn't all that
much fun.

Jim Watson

October 10, 2012, 09:09 AM

What 9mm ammunition can you GET in Sydney?

In general, a slow heavy bullet will have less felt recoil than a light fast one.
But the inexpensive bulk ammunition will have light fast bullets because lead costs more than powder.

In general, a slow heavy bullet will have less felt recoil than a light fast one.
Disagree. Unless the light one is over powdered or has an abrupt and high peak to its pressure curve it will have less recoil. Recoil is a function of momentum which tends to make heavier rounds recoil more heavily in a given caliber. That's holding everything constant, though, the manufacturers you're using may be loading it in that way or you're using a shortish barreled weapon.

Gerry

October 11, 2012, 09:30 PM

Recoil is a function of momentum which tends to make heavier rounds recoil more heavily in a given caliber.

Momentum is actually a product of mass and speed, not mass alone. In other words, relative momentum is equivalent to the measurement of IPSC power factor. A 115gr bullet traveling 1130 fps has the same momentum as a 147gr bullet traveling about 880 fps. Both make minor power factor and can be used for production division. But which have the lightest "felt" recoil?

It takes MUCH less powder in order to move a heavier bullet the same power factor as a lighter bullet. Less power = less gas expansion = less energy. Remember that not all that energy is contributing to the momentum of that bullet. This is why I have never witnessed anyone (that is not a newbie) in production division who shoots anything lighter than a 147gr bullet. I shoot one heavier than that.

Contrast this to those who shoot 9mm open division with major PF. They want as much energy as possible in the form of huge volumes of gasses that will make their compensator work. So their trick is to use the lightest bullet allowed and stuff the most powder they can in a case while making major. While a great deal of that energy isn't transferred to the bullet, it doesn't end up going out the end of the barrel, but instead exhausts from the ports to compensate for the gun's tendency to flip up during recoil.

LSnSC

October 12, 2012, 08:27 AM

In my production gun, an XD 5.25 the 147's, pushed fast enough to make PF have a smoother recoil impulse. This allows me to get back on target faster.
The 115's, when pushed fast enough to make PF have faster, snappier recoil. I imagine thats why most of the folks who are competitive are shooting 147's.

Occasionally I'll shoot my G21 in production and SSP. You dont have to push a 230gr bullet very fast to make the 125 PF, so to me it, shoots even softer than the 9mm. Its just more expensive.

Bullet weight is not necessarily the determining factor for recoil.

10mmAuto

October 12, 2012, 07:44 PM

Momentum is actually a product of mass and speed, not mass alone
I know, that's why I said holding everything else constant.

gunrobot

October 13, 2012, 03:20 AM

What 9mm ammunition can you GET in Sydney?

+1.

If you're not reloading, shoot any 9mm ammo you can get reliably and cheaply where you are. Lots of folk in my area shoot 115gr factory ammo because of the price.

lmccrock

October 13, 2012, 06:19 AM

I know, that's why I said holding everything else constant.
No problem, but "everything else" includes power factor, which is bullet momentum, not energy. Something HAS to change with bullet weight to keep PF the same, and that is powder weight.

Anyway...smenkhare, let us know what you can get. We will do what we can.

Gerry

October 13, 2012, 06:33 AM

I know, that's why I said holding everything else constant.

Yes I see that now. But realize that in real life, it's impossible to have everything else constant when it comes to bullet weight. If a heavier bullet and lighter one are pushed at the same speed, speed may be constant but power factor is not.

If a 147 gr bullet was shot with the same speed as some +P 115 gr commercial rounds, to 1350 fps for example, the 147 gr bullet would have a power factor of nearly 200. Minor PF is only 125 and major PF is 165. Most people shooting 9mm major shoot open race guns that are specially designed to handle the high pressures caused by such rounds. But 200 PF? I'd be waiting safely on the other side of the berm while you tested your first round.

Whether commercial rounds or home made according to directions in a reloading manual, generally the heavier the bullet, the less power is required, and the less velocity is achieved. But chamber pressure and power factor remain fairly constant across loads appearing in the same min-max scale.

Everything is relative I guess :p

Gerry

October 13, 2012, 06:49 AM

I've finally sent away for my pistol license and am looking at IPSC production division. Other than hand loads, what ammunition do you reccomend?

I figured I would post something on topic...

First smenkhare, I think you're going about it in the right way. Until you learn the fundamentals, get your black badge, and shoot a few matches, you're not at the stage where you require the competitive edge that custom loads will give you anyway. You probably wont notice much difference at this stage between bullet weights either with commercial ammunition. So like other posters said, get what's cheapest and most available and go have fun.

Your degree of involvement in the sport will eventually dictate whether you need to reload for yourself. When your wife catches trying to sell the family car for a crate of ammo, well that's about the right time...

WESHOOT2

October 14, 2012, 09:49 AM

Check out the remanufactured choices from Georgia Arms.

Jesse Tischauser

October 16, 2012, 03:08 PM

Factory Remington Green box barely makes minor power factor. I run Federal Wal Mart 9mm in all my guns. Its not as accurate or as soft as my buddies hand loads but its the cheapest thing I can find anytime day or night.