I really don't see much of a difference in Dont'a Hightower and Upshaw, Mayo and Ellerbe, and as I previously mentioned, Spikes and McClellan, yet New England seems to make due with those guys just fine in that base. And I think you severely underrate Ellerbe's coverage skills, btw.

I'm glad we can agree on Montgomery, though.

New England's defense isn't good though. Mayo is a lot better than Ellerbe too, at least in coverage/space. There isn't any underrating going on either. Ellerbe is not good when he has to drop back.

I really don't see much of a difference in Dont'a Hightower and Upshaw, Mayo and Ellerbe, and as I previously mentioned, Spikes and McClellan, yet New England seems to make due with those guys just fine in that base. And I think you severely underrate Ellerbe's coverage skills, btw.

I'm glad we can agree on Montgomery, though.

New England's defense isn't good though. Mayo is a lot better than Ellerbe too, at least in coverage/space. There isn't any underrating going on either. Ellerbe is not good when he has to drop back.

I think Ellerbe can be good with another athlete next to him. No one can match rays knowledge of the game but at this point his body wouldn't allow him to make plays that used to be routine. So the on-field play has a decent chance for improvement. We also need to improve our team speed defensively. I can't wait to see what we do in the draft

I've read all the arguments for both Ellerbe and Kruger, but I think there is one wildcard to the scenario--Adrian Hamilton. I think the FO and coaching staff are enamored with his skillset, and that he'll be a player that could alter our free agent/draft strategy somewhat now that he has some experience.

The guy was a sack machine in college, and even though it was at a lower level, I don't think the skill can be overlooked. A rotation of him and Upshaw could legitimately be expected to at least mirror Kruger's production, if not exceed it.

Because of that, I'd be inclined to keep Ellerbe if forced to choose, just to have some continuity in the middle of the field.

But truth be told, I don't think either of them will be back due to what they can reasonably expect to get on the open market. And I'm kind of ok with that because I'd rather double dip at ILB in the draft this year and get 2 studs who could grow and play together for the next 10 years, and see what an Upshaw/Hamilton pairing can do in Kruger's spot.

I think Ellerbe can be good with another athlete next to him. No one can match rays knowledge of the game but at this point his body wouldn't allow him to make plays that used to be routine. So the on-field play has a decent chance for improvement. We also need to improve our team speed defensively. I can't wait to see what we do in the draft

Ellerbe was pretty good this year without an ILB that's good in space next to him. He would look even better if he wasn't the guy that had to play in space though. I'm not down on Ellerbe at all it's just that I would rather he be put in a position that helps masks his limitations.

gooselovechild wrote:

I've read all the arguments for both Ellerbe and Kruger, but I think there is one wildcard to the scenario--Adrian Hamilton. I think the FO and coaching staff are enamored with his skillset, and that he'll be a player that could alter our free agent/draft strategy somewhat now that he has some experience.

I don't know, I haven't read or heard anything about how the staff feels about Hamilton. He could definitely be a dark horse candidate (McAdoo as well) but I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on a guy like that to be the main situational pass-rusher. It's just too important to the defense.

Last edited by coordinator0 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:50 pm; edited 2 times in total

I've read all the arguments for both Ellerbe and Kruger, but I think there is one wildcard to the scenario--Adrian Hamilton. I think the FO and coaching staff are enamored with his skillset, and that he'll be a player that could alter our free agent/draft strategy somewhat now that he has some experience.

The guy was a sack machine in college, and even though it was at a lower level, I don't think the skill can be overlooked. A rotation of him and Upshaw could legitimately be expected to at least mirror Kruger's production, if not exceed it.

Because of that, I'd be inclined to keep Ellerbe if forced to choose, just to have some continuity in the middle of the field.

But truth be told, I don't think either of them will be back due to what they can reasonably expect to get on the open market. And I'm kind of ok with that because I'd rather double dip at ILB in the draft this year and get 2 studs who could grow and play together for the next 10 years, and see what an Upshaw/Hamilton pairing can do in Kruger's spot.

I doubt that, I like being optimistic, but to say a practice squad guy can imitate/exceed what kruger did is wishful thinking imo, kruger wasn't just our best pass rushers for the 2nd half of the season, but he was one of the best pass rushers in the entire nfl. However, Kruger is going to get overpaid, and I'd still take ellerbe, we'd be left with Jameel McClain, and Josh Bynes without him._________________

I've read all the arguments for both Ellerbe and Kruger, but I think there is one wildcard to the scenario--Adrian Hamilton. I think the FO and coaching staff are enamored with his skillset, and that he'll be a player that could alter our free agent/draft strategy somewhat now that he has some experience.

The guy was a sack machine in college, and even though it was at a lower level, I don't think the skill can be overlooked. A rotation of him and Upshaw could legitimately be expected to at least mirror Kruger's production, if not exceed it.

Because of that, I'd be inclined to keep Ellerbe if forced to choose, just to have some continuity in the middle of the field.

But truth be told, I don't think either of them will be back due to what they can reasonably expect to get on the open market. And I'm kind of ok with that because I'd rather double dip at ILB in the draft this year and get 2 studs who could grow and play together for the next 10 years, and see what an Upshaw/Hamilton pairing can do in Kruger's spot.

I doubt that, I like being optimistic, but to say a practice squad guy can imitate/exceed what kruger did is wishful thinking imo, kruger wasn't just our best pass rushers for the 2nd half of the season, but he was one of the best pass rushers in the entire nfl. However, Kruger is going to get overpaid, and I'd still take ellerbe, we'd be left with Jameel McClain, and Josh Bynes without him.

If Hamilton and Upshaw can each get 4-5 sacks, that will mirror Kruger's production in the pass rush. I don't think its unrealistic at all to think that, combined, they can do that. Especially since its reasonable to expect Suggs to be back to 100% next year and garnering the attention the a DPOY gets from opposing offenses.

As far as McAdoo, I like him too, but until he can make it through camp without getting hurt, he's a non-factor in my eyes. To me, he's a bubble player heading into camp.

I think that, with a healthy Suggs, McPhee and Ngata, the pass rush could be run by committee next season. Kruger might not be missed too much, if all the guys capable of getting to the QB can do so a few times.

Hamilton could be a situational pass rusher, as could McAdoo (if healthy). Upshaw can do JJ's old job, while getting into the backfield a little more.

Shoring up the run with recruits on the D-line and ILB would help too, and with Webb back in the secondary, the pass coverage should keep the ball in the QBs' hands for a little bit longer.

Someone is going to offer Kruger about $8-10million a year, based on what he did over the last couple of months. The Ravens cannot match that._________________

We've been a 34 base team for some time now, I see no reason to change that now. We already use the 43 in pass rushing situations a lot of the time anyway, either that or a nickel.

Sorry for not addressing this in my other post.. guess I missed it before. But we'd just have more holes to address if we stuck to being a 34 base team. We need a Kelly Gregg type of DT either way (even Ozzie himself sort of alluded to this), as well as an E.T. (Montgomery would be perfect for either scheme), and for the argument's sake, a Will/WLB (Arthur Brown). Now, we would be set if were to use the 43 otherwise we would still need to get a 34 DE because McPhee and Jones are better served as rotational players.

It'd be pretty awesome if we could trade down to the top of the second and get Montgomery, then trade up to grab Arthur Brown _________________2000 ● WORLD CHAMPIONS ● 2012

It'd be pretty awesome if we could trade down to the top of the second and get Montgomery, then trade up to grab Arthur Brown

On second thought, I'm hoping we take Brown before anyone else with our first pick because I just don't want to risk us missing out him, I'm that high on the guy. So high on him, that as long as we draft him I don't care what else we do in the draft, or rather, there won't be anything they can do in the draft that would upset me because everything else will just be a plus and I'll be and if we don't get him let's just say that I'll be

As the saying goes you can never have too many pass rushers. However, as much as I like Kruger he started to look better when Suggs returned and the O-Line focused their blocking elsewhere. For the money I expect he is going to be looking for you need to be the guy no matter what the blocking.

So in terms of overall value to the team Ellerbe gets my vote. I think we can get a pass rusher in this draft to fill that need when Kruger signs elsewhere._________________

As the saying goes you can never have too many pass rushers. However, as much as I like Kruger he started to look better when Suggs returned and the O-Line focused their blocking elsewhere. For the money I expect he is going to be looking for you need to be the guy no matter what the blocking.

So in terms of overall value to the team Ellerbe gets my vote. I think we can get a pass rusher in this draft to fill that need when Kruger signs elsewhere.

I definitely don't want to overpay for Kruger. He is a pass rush specialist that can beat most tackles one on one but he isn't complete and if somebody wants to pay him elite money I have no problem letting him walk. Upshaws pass rushing ability is mostly untapped because he rotated with Kruger alot not saying he will be as good but with more opportunities he should be better. I think what it boils down to is would you rather have Upshaw and a Rookie backup with Ellerbe and a rookie next to him. Or would u rather have Kruger and Upshaw with Bynes and a rookie starting or two rookies at middle linebacker. Now mind u if McClain comes back this all changes but neck injuries for linebacker's are never good so I don't count on him at this point him returning would be a bonus IMO

Ellerbe , then draft 2 ILB as we don't know exactly if McClain will be fully -recovered from his injury.

If we bring back Ellerbe and address the ILB position with a premium pick, then I don't think we would need another option to plug in there.

Besides McClain, we also have Bynes, who looked pretty darn good in his last two starts on the team. He clearly looked a step above McClain at ILB from what I saw. I'd honestly be comfortable with giving him an opportunity as a starter if all other things failed... I think he just might have some Bart Scott/Dannell Ellerbe potential to him to succeed if give the opportunity to do that. Simply put, when he plays, he makes plays. So I like him.

So then you factor in Ayanbadejo... and I think simply going the UDFA route at ILB would be more than enough to address the depth at the position if for some reason McClain wasn't able to play because of health issues._________________