WOW, what bothers me most is that facts don't seem to matter in political debate these days--debate is driven by rabid hatred rather than reasoned scanning of the evidence. Buttering Clark with one stroke on the bread of Clinton is an obvious example of what I mean--the facts are not important--the rabid idea of hating Clinton, branding a person as part of that hated community, and then making the facts an arcanus blip (what people like Coulter and Limbaugh do) is what makes me crazy.

And for the record: I think Bill Clinton was a big jerk as well as an intelligent politician; I predicted in 1992 that his sex organ would get him into trouble and, sad for him, I was right. But I abhor the rabid baloney (including that he was a murderer) that extreme right wing nonsense throws at a mostly ignorant public.

I am registered with no political party, mainly because I believe in no politicians--but I do despise lies and fact twisting whether they come from the left, the right, the middle or outer space.

My, my. Thanks for including me in such distinguished company, Foodie.

OK, boys & girls, the President's economic policies are kicking in and all segments of the economy are gaining momentum, except job growth. (It's always the last; if business is stagnant, it doesn't make sense to add employees.) So now's the time to expand your business and/or buy a new one. We're doing our part: reached a verbal agreement to buy another business yesterday, and increased our stake in a current partnership, with two more start-ups in the works. Each will increase employment, in its small way. Tally-ho!

Hotwine, I harbor no animosity--just a strong opinion on the subject. And I am not a political animal. I have voted for members of many different parties, the ones who I deemed responsible politicians, which means my voting begins in an excruciating process of trying to find those politicians. Following ideology never appealed to me, mainly because nothing in life is so black and white and cock sure!

You know that Coulter lady: she starts her books by saying that political debate has sunk to hate talk instead of issues, and then she goes on for hundreds of pages spewing hate talk instead of examining the issues. It's how I feel about Rush, who to make his points uses out of context information, name calling, hate-bating and perverse logic (although he is quite humorous at times).

The smear on Clark likely comes out of fear that he may be the only Democrat with a shot at winning the Presidency--if he even is a Democrat, which I believe he became rather recently...

Incidentally, I am looking for an employee for the shop, so I'll be doing my part too.

Agree that the hysteria on both sides is disappointing and the shrieking obscures the issues. I don't personally listen to either Rush or the blonde.... merely throw rocks when the Clintons appear on the tube, but also do that with some bone-headed GOPers. Clark remains an enigma at this point.

Hotsie, I was dozing this morning while listening to a piece on NPR about the Texas re-districting debacle. Did I really hear the Speaker of the House of Texas say that "the oil industry deserves its own congressman"???

I didn't hear that, 'Berto. The big hang-up on an agreement now is between the reps from Midland and Lubbock.... the new map will short-change one of them. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear the loser, whoever that is, claim that the dominant industry in W. Texas deserves its own rep. And in Austin politics, anything is possible.

BTW, I read this morning that the reason Sen. Whitmire abandoned the other 10 Dem. sens. who had fled to NM to avoid a quorom was because the national democratic party had made an issue of it in D.C., as "part of the vast right-wing conspiracy to undo previous elections." He knew that was B.S., and declined to be a part of it. For that, he'll probably be re-elected, but I wouldn't give you two bits for the political careers of the other 10. They're toast... including the man who has sponsored direct shipment in Texas, Sen. Frank Madla, who has received my vote for years. Not any more, he won't. He cut and ran, rather than staying in Austin to tackle the business of state government. Might as well have been caught at the Wenotel Motel with a 10-yr-old boy.

I've been locking horns with s couple of truly twisted rightie lunatics on the WS forums and to come back here and read this one and, well, it gladdens my old heart to see such gentility and courtesy.

I used to work for the Democratic Party, usually as a publicist and public-speaking trainer and came out of he last race (Harvey Gant for NC Senate in '09) as disillusioned about both parties as I'll ever hope to be.

There truly is NO civility today. The old golden rule of Agreeing to Disagree is stone dead and the carcass carted away. The thinking now is that if you don't agree with me, you're a dangerous traitor and Something Muct Be Done About You. The California Recall is symptomatic of that. The guy, however bad a governor he may be, WAS elected by a majority of the people and should, therefore, serve out his time, much as a condemned man might. The principle? You Elected Him, Bubba, you suffer the consequences and try harder next time. Now, with Ahnuld's teat firmly enmeshed in the wringer, CA Democrats are ALREADY saying that, if Schwarzie is elected, they'll stump another petition drive to RECALL THE RECALL! Anybody see where this is leading?

I live in a state so freakin' strange that mots people here think "Twin Peaks" was a documentary but, somehow, we elect people here and they stay elected, we snipe and nip at one another but still talk across the aisle. I'm not promoting WA as a model - not as long as we have things like Tim Eyeman running amok - but stylish disagreement and Making Good Enemies used to mean something.

My all-time favorite political insult was the member of the Virginia Legislature, back in the late 1700s, who said of John Randolph, "Here is a man so thoroughly brilliant and so thoroughly corrupt that, like a rotten mackerel by moonlight, he shines and stinks." Man! Who wouldn't love to be insulted like that! Randolph, as the story goes, used the line the rest of his life and got a bang out of it every time.

American politics used to be a creative and fractious arena where you could bash your colleague's head in on the Senate floor and have cocktails with him that night. Now, we have idiots like the two fleabags I hooked up with on WS who actually wrote that several (or maybe all) members of the Democratic Party WANTED American soldiers to die in Iraq because it would advance their evil political agenda. Can you imagine?

I don't doubt that the Recall was engineered by frustrated Right-Wingers who just didn't like that a Frammin-Jammen Democrat won the state house. I also don't doubt that the flood of people coming forth with stories about Ahnuld's past indiscretions NOW, conveniently just before the election, were rounded up and put up to it by Democratic strategists.

Politics suck. SUCK. If there were ever a person in the White House like Jed Bartlett or Barbara Jordan, I'd lick stamps for them until my tongue bled. But it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime...

Agree with most of that. We have something going on in our little town of 2500 that had to have been inspired by California. We have a new town manager that is on probation. It will be determined tonight whether she will stay on full time or not.

She was hired at the urging of the chief selectman, after she had interned here while getting a bachelors in public administration late in life. She has no managerial experience, and yells and screams at her employees all the time. She fired the long time town accountant (14 years) in a tit. So, people are circulating a petition asking for both the town manager and chief selectperson to resign. Isn't that just swell. The selectpersons only serve two years, so the guy could be voted out next year, and it is the selectpersons' responsiblity to determine the future of the town manager. Sigh!

Steve, I just went and read your debates with those at WS. As someone who has defended your statements on wine in the past I am embarrassed to have ever been in your court. Your statements make me sick and in my opinion it is people like you that make polotics ugly. You get all excited and start name calling and loose all your credibility. You need to calm down if you ever want to be taken seriously.

Guess you missed the other guys' posts, huh? Quite a lot of name-calling there, too. In fact, they were first.

I'm not looking for anyone to be "in my corner". My corner is rather full. What I am looking for is the ability of people to disagree without resorting to fabrications and extrapolations about the respondents views, politics, and personal preferences. There is plenty enough to deal with in posts as posted without starting the sort of crap I had sarted with me, about my being "in bed" politically with people I never heard of, smoking dope (which I don't do), and being a "bad person" just because they don't agree with my politics.

Guess you missed the other guys' posts, huh? Quite a lot of name-calling there, too. In fact, they were first.

I'm not looking for anyone to be "in my corner". My corner is rather full. What I am looking for is the ability of people to disagree without resorting to fabrications and extrapolations about the respondents views, politics, and personal preferences. There is plenty enough to deal with in posts as posted without starting the sort of crap I had sarted with me, about my being "in bed" politically with people I never heard of, smoking dope (which I don't do), and being a "bad person" just because they don't agree with my politics.