Italy summons Indian Envoy over Orissa

Orissa in on the boil again. This time the trigger was the murder of Swami Laxmananda Saraswati and several of his followers.

What really caught my eye was this news story !

Rome: Italy’s Foreign Ministry will summon India’s ambassador to demand “incisive action” to prevent further attacks against Christians that have left 11 people dead in Orissa, the Italian government said on Thursday.

A statement issued after a cabinet meeting also said Italy would ask France, the current EU president, to take up the issue of attacks against Christians at a future meeting of foreign ministers.

Italy has no business interfering in this incident. None of the killed or injured were Italian or EU nationals.

The fight is tribal in nature and is related to benefits attached to ST status. If you can concentrate for about 15 minutes – you will find that this issue like most others are linked to the ad hoc benefits attached to group membership. This one will blow over but will reappear twice as strong in some other form. The only way to stem the rot is to inject rational-basis into the group classification system.

All Catholic Schools shut on Friday

NEW DELHI (ICNS): More than 40,000 Christian educational institutions across India will remain closed on Friday as a stark reminder of the continuing violence against Christians in Orissa that has claimed 14 lives in the past four days.
Following a call from Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India on Tuesday, Catholics have decided to close down all educational institutions, numbering some 20,300 across India, as a mark of protest.

Christians of other denominations led by Church of South India, Church of North India and other Churches will close all their educational institutions in an unprecedented move, a Catholic priest said. These Christian groups togther run another 20,000 institutions, he said.

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the converted christian SC castes got themselves ST status. In the SC category converted christians are not allowed due to a presidential order from 1950. In the ST category, they are allowed. This was unfair to the real tribals who started fighting.

it will be good to note here the kind of rules that were quoted to the Gurjars when they wanted in the ST party – ‘you are not shy’, ‘you are not remote’ etc. Some one could have done them a favor and told them if you choose Christ you can get in.

it will also be good to note here that a former DGP of orissa police – some Mr. Nayak – is mentioned as the leader of the christian group.

That is the background, that will all be comfortably hidden from those public that can spare some thought for issues such as this, after they are done with a stray gold medal in olympics or a cricket series, and other pressing concerns like secular fabrics.

But the Italy government doing a OPEC shows that christians, like Muslims, have a global Ummah also. Secularism in India is only for Hindus. And patriotism – dont even go there, its a bad word. Nagaland is already for Christ – not necessarily for India. You should expect this from Tuticorin and Kanyakumar districts as well, sooner or later.

And the christian institutions are showing their middle finger nice and proper to the Indian ‘secular’ ‘intellectuals’ one more time. They must be tiring their middle fingers by now, the stupid secular intellectuals still dont get it. They want to continue pretending that the good christians are secular and are running these institutions only to save the heathens from their ignorance. They refuse to accept the truth that the christians run their institutions only with the aim of converting more souls. Education is not the aim, not even the secondary or tertiary aim. A monopolistic control over education, abetted by a ‘secular’ establishment, is yet another way to harvest more souls. The middle finger stays raised, but the stupid secular intellectuals will still tire the missionaries out by refusing to ack it.

>> I really do not care about the “harvesting souls part”. If they are organized enough, have fat pockets, can offer a better deal, a better spiritual experience – then so be it.

i understand your focus on the reservation issue, but actually for the societies that these conversions tear apart, it is not ‘so be it’. The converted tribals are told to destroy their Hindu symbols. When a village becomes christian majority, trouble starts if the remaining Hindus want to celebrate their Pagan functions.

there was a recent case in TN, near dindigul if i remember right, where a group of Hindus staged a sit-in protest in their temple because christians from the same caste in their village disturbed their function and cut the neem tree that is held sacred. I saw this in a tamil news channel.

1) A better spiritual experience. This could come about as a result of sweet talking alone with no extra benefits.

2) Concrete benefits in exchange. Whether it takes the form of a watchman’s job, contract to build new churches, sumptuous mutton biriyani every Sunday. The KEY benefit is preferential access to Christian institutions while retaining benefits under ST and OBC (even SC if you dont make a noise about converting). This is usually bankrolled by millions of American, German, UK dollars.

It is important to note that I am not including the elite Indian Christians (esp Kerala Catholics) in this group.

The question is :

1) What is wrong with this ? Why cant the HIndus match us dollar for dollar in building temples, schools, orphanages, nunnerys, etc ?

This is a hard one, because they are correct. There is nothing wrong with any of the above – except ONE. They cannot retain the OBC tag (due to educational dominance) or ST tag (not isolated or shy).

Certainly, the incidents like felling the neem tree will cause tensions. However,
a) this is a criminal incident and can be treated as such.
b) missionary activity – very rarely – encourages to physically destroy places of worship of Hindus. Even in Orissa, I am not aware of this being a factor.

Clearly all that stinks is the attack on secularism…. converting tribals to attract foreign funds and increase political power seems to be a possible prime motive for the missionaries.

Secularism means a total and definitive separation of religion (which is a private and personal matter) from social and political actions. If this is not acceptable then its but natural that the organized majority (could be anyone, maybe Islamic?) in India will run the politics of the nation. I say this because ‘Hindus’ by and large are not organized (they really never were a homogenous entity) even though the ‘minority’-loving Central government assumes they are.

As a non-Muslim, non-Christian non-etc etc I feel insecure and threatened by the communal-minority politics being played by the UPA (possibly in what they think is a response to BJP) and feel that secularism of India is destroyed; so my only hope to save body and soul is to join in the organizing of the majority interest group that will protect a more secular way of life….

>> missionary activity – very rarely – encourages to physically destroy places of worship of Hindus. Even in Orissa, I am not aware of this being a factor.

I am surprised you said that, even with that qualifier ‘very rarely’.

I will expand it to any form of violence and not limit to attacks on places of worship. If you kill or force him to flee his land, the Pagan’s place of worship is only a moot point.

Popes go around apologizing for christian violence in every other place. They wont do that in India because we are secular. But this violence is not just historical – The missionary activity in Nagaland and Chattisgarh led to civil wars between tribal groups. Some tribal groups in the north east live in refugee camps. The secular press may not report much on National Liberation Front of Tripura or Naga rebels, or Reang refugees.

I will be happy if they just keep shut on friday. But, in a small town like madurai the christian schools have mobilized school kids (mostly non-christian hindus) to protest against what they call as “attack on minorities”. They are mobilizing children to further their political agenda which should be condemned by all media. The media as usual goes mute on this or reports in 5 th page as a passing comment of some sort.

I am waiting for the day when you are going to show (with support from that barbar of course) that Even Babri masjid was destroyed because of quota problem

or why not.. you can even say that The sarvarkar – godse group of terrorists killed gandhi because of quotas… Ha Ha Ha and your cabal will claim that as a well researched intelligent piece of work and recommend that for nobel or booker

>> overnment (of a chief minister who is not the same group as you and him) >>

*It does not matter what group you or I or anyone else belong to*

What matters is : If the group wants place on the social justice platform alongside pavement dwellers – it must have data to back up its claims.

Life stories (like lemuria, or dinosaurs, or Java man vs Peking man) may be helpful, but then everyone will make up their own stories. Let us say we give benefits to people descended from the Java man. How do you know if Vellalas descended from the Java man and Naickers from the Peking man ?

The court has been really kind towards the Tamilnadu political scene, so please take it easy. Shockingly, it has not insisted on scrutiny to check how the really backward are doing and there is no action on the 9th schedule either. What would have happened if it insisted on data from TN about the beneficiaries ?

>> nd equally racist people advising the prime minister >>

Who advises the PM ?

>> it is no wonder that other countries have to step in

Interesting viewpoint. You may be right though. Maybe the whole independence thing was a massive waste of time !

>> or why not.. you can even say that The sarvarkar – godse group of terrorists killed gandhi because of quotas… Ha Ha Ha and your cabal will claim that as a well researched intelligent piece of work and recommend that for nobel or booker

such claims have not been made, take it easy. practise your strawman skills elsewhere.

but some real cabals are making claims that Thiruvalluvar got his stuff from an alleged Thome or Thomas or whatever. And that is being passed off as well researched intelligent piece of work backed by some million dollars movie project. Spend your energies there.

>> what happened to that judge
why he has not taken suo motto of this violence

dont get your panties in a bunch in your rage. The SC did not take suo-moto cognizance of your dear leader’s escapades on that fasting-beween-breakfast-and-lunch day. More recently, another SC bench got close to invoking contempt on the same case when your dear leaders where busy patronising high art from item girls. You dont want to get caste into those.

and the case you refer to was not about the bandh on reservation – your leaders got to enforce a very successful bandh against the Supreme court stay on reservations without any trouble. This case was related to sethu samudram. looks like your dravida secular self is all in a rage that RamSetu is still not destroyed.

>> I am waiting for the day when you are going to show (with support from that barbar of course) that Even Babri masjid was destroyed because of quota problem

Why, such claims have actually been made a long time ago. It had been claimed in the secular traditions that Advani took onto the Ram Rath only because VP Singh kick-started Mandal-1. You may find references in past issues of frontline or even in your dear leaders speeches.

The great supreme court judges (including one whose son was found dead in a Chennai lodge during Jaya;s Rule ) will not take action against Kerala or Karnataka for blatantly refusing to obey its orders for years

They will not take action against the Holocaust of Gujarat and Orissa

But they will take action only against Karunanidhi. Because he is from a caste they don’t like.

//but some real cabals are making claims that Thiruvalluvar got his stuff from an alleged Thome or Thomas or whatever. And that is being passed off as well researched intelligent piece of work backed by some million dollars movie project. Spend your energies there.//

Of course. That is AS STUPID as the claim that the natural formations in Palk Strait is the bridge built by Rama.

Both are equally stupid
Check Google earth and you will find such formations in 10 other places
Who built those.

rc,
you need to delete that last comment. But the comment also highlights the perverse nature of debates on faith in India. Questioning the Hindu faith is free season from secularists to rationalists to supreme court bench and self-proclaimed progressives. Tolerance is to be preached only to the Hindus. So Hindus need to be progressive if their faith in a bridge is questioned and accept that the burden of proof is on them regardless of whether it is something held sacred in their faith. That is where the bar for ‘progressive acceptance’ is set. From there, raising the limit to outright abuse like the demented anonymous commenter is easy.

>> But there is continous acts of TERROR for the past 2 weeks and it is really strange that you don’t want to book the Bajrang terrorists under POTA

>> They will not take action against the Holocaust of Gujarat and Orissa

>> (Of course The biggest terrorist in India in Narendra Modi and he is still scott free)

The secular twisting of a riot in which some 300 Hindus and 700 Muslims died into a ‘genocide and holocaust’ is not helping the secular cause. It helps Modi score an easy win and possibly for the wrong reasons. Extending that to a communal clash in Orissa in which a Hindu monk and Hindu nuns were killed is not going to help the secular cause either.

The secular central government, into whose vote bank you no doubt contribute to, is free to bring in an anti-terror law and apply it to Bajrang Dal if it can build a case. But the secular central government can not build a case against SIMI. And its secular spokesperson gets egg on his face and gets to look like a ripe mango flattened by a truck on a hot summer afternoon. On prime time TV.

You may need to keep up with the news and ask for POTA on the entire citizenry of Jammu. That is the latest breaking news.

>> The great supreme court judges (including one whose son was found dead in a Chennai lodge during Jaya;s Rule ) will not take action against Kerala or Karnataka for blatantly refusing to obey its orders for years

Your rage, like all secular-social-justice rage ranging from Laloo to Suzanne, is short on facts. Kerala got to be the model for creamy layer and its entire legislature got pulled up in the SC – a privilege not extended to the Tamil Nadu legislature’s 9th schedule trip. Karnataka CM got pulled up for not honoring supreme court directives on the Cauvery water issue and threatened with contempt of court.

You have been fed on a lot of secular social justice victimhood diet. It is doubtful if you will ever work it out of your system. keep chanting ‘evil brahmin’ like your leader does.

That guy is a true reflection of the ‘dravidian’ culture promoted by the ‘patriotic’leaders in TamilNadu.Reason, you cant expect any sort of basic qualities as these shameful bigots are devoid of any respect for morality,ethics etc.
(And let his last comment stay there and people be exposed to these creatures.He deserves a million spit! )

Jesus never preached any of his disciples to convert other people to their faith.Christianity became a commercial establishment only after it was made the State religion of Rome.Eversince the godliness and spirituality faded out gradually and its believers started their hype which instilled hatred and superiority complex in the believer’s mind that consequently turned it into a aggresive religion.
Anyway let’s not let loose the standards while we disapprove something.It will only narrow down the differences between intellectuals and stupids.Condemnation should not cross the ‘Laxman Rekha’ even if an observation/comment is extremely obnoxious.Even Jesus would be feeling sorry over the wrong doings committed using his name. As long as conversion activities are on rampage, I believe that the Lord needs no other enemies !

//. Questioning the Hindu faith is free season from secularists to rationalists to supreme court bench and self-proclaimed progressives.//

Ha Ha Ha.. you can question other faith, but others cannot question your faith. that is what is called as Fanatism.

//Is it true that Mary was fucked by a roman soldier and Jesus grew up in guilt?//
As per Bible, it is not like that. It is an imagination of fanatic racists like Murali (and others from his gang). you cant expect any sort of basic qualities as these shameful bigots are devoid of any respect for morality,ethics etc.

But as per ramayana, can you answer the question asked
“By the way, is it true that Rama’s mother had sex with a horse Penis”

Can you say whether Valmiki Ramayana says like that or the above sentence is the imagination of ‘dravidian’ culture promoted by the ‘patriotic’leaders in TamilNadu.Reason.

Bajrang Dal, VHP, RSS, BJP (who killed Gandhi) are the same as SIMI, Lakshkar, PLO and they are the same as the Terrorists of Punjab (who killed Indira gandhi) and they are same as LTTE (who killed Rajiv Gandhi) and they are same as America (who have so far killed Millions)

All are terrorists and all have to be treated equally. POTA should be enacted again and Modi and Bajrang Dal and SIMI activists and the priest from Orissa who said he will form an army arrested and put behind bars

There is no doubt regarding this

What amuses the onlooker is the shameless stand of Reality, Reason, Barbar, murali who wants POTA only for Non Hindu Terrorists …Do a soul searching, and you should feel ashamed of yourself.

If you are still not ashamed of the stand you have taken so far (check your blogs and comments to know it) then nothing can be done :)

>> i asked a very simple question to him. he can check his DATA (from the book written by Valmiki) and say whether it is true that Rama’s mother had sex with Horse Penis or Not. >>

Lol. This is juvenile. I dont care if Jesus or Ram borked any farm animal.

What I do care about is the following :

1) We cannot have a separate constitutional status in the form of preferential quotas for those who believe that “Ramas or Jesus parents had sex with farm animals”.

Any tinkering with equality has to be backed by real and recent data – not cock and bull stories. (notice the pun)

As far as Ram Sethu is concerned, there has been NO EXCAVATION work or ANY OTHER underwater survey in that area. Even then, the Congress led UPA can go ahead and demolish it. The only issue is handling the massive tensions it creates in India.

>> //you need to delete that last comment. //
This is hilarious..Come on… Why are you afraid to face truth.. .

I knew a comment like that will extract an equally interesting comment on the possibilities of a virgin giving birth. And it did come thru. Let us face all these truths and debate them endlessly.

I know my truth as per my religious tradition. I am not afraid of it. I do not look westward or eastward for padres to come and give me my faith along with a few bags of rice. Your quotes from your demented dravida leader does not threaten my faith.

But you have a very insecure God who does not stand anyone else getting worshipped, and that is from your own book.

>> What amuses the onlooker is the shameless stand of Reality, Reason, Barbar, murali who wants POTA only for Non Hindu Terrorists …Do a soul searching, and you should feel ashamed of yourself.

This is a gratuitous advice, but you need to check your head. You are imagining things and hallucinating.

I would readily ask for LTTE’s prabhakaran to be hanged without trial. But if I do that in TN, your dear demented leader will want to open up my shirt and see what I have on my shoulder. Prabhakaran is apparently an Hindu, atleast born to Hindu parents, though there are speculations about LTTE’s close relationship to the Church of late.

RC,
let me make one more juvenile sermon.I feel sick about stooping to the level of’ anony’.

I have a personal anecdote.Many years ago,we lived as tenants in the house of a christian.She stayed far away.After many years,she came to stay very near.

She was so simple,childlike and christian,in the sense christists are proud of. There are decent folks everywhere. I feel ashamed to mouth hate language. It is another thing that my insinuation is finding scholarly support.I intended to hurt this rascal.

But all this is against the spirit of ‘real’ religion..

Sorry for using such language in this forum.

Best Wishes to you. As you said earlier, one needs to be focussed on the ‘real’ issues.

Your observation on Karur is right!
I have to add one more.On the 15th of August,2006 (Yes! on the eve of independence) while the country was gearing up for the independence day,
some perverts were visiting houses around Karur and were forcibly distributing bibles and crosses to poor.Angered by this humiliation meted out,some local dalit casteist leaders zeroed on these evangilist guys and were beaten blue.However,this issue did not find light in the media.Imagine the hype the media would have given if RSS involvement was alleged.

Kanyakumari district is one such place in South India where extremist hold is high.Some fanatics,even call the district as KanyaMary Mavattam(district).You can find this on some postcards as well.It has the potential to create lot of turmoil.Let’s see if a name change is demanded by some organisation or party!

“He wanted them to take sober positions in view of the general feeling among the majority communities that the minority communities were enjoying several privileges and were using their organised strength to wrest more benefits from the Government.

The representatives of the minority communities and party leaders should not shut their eyes to the large-scale economic inequalities that exist in the State. They should not think that they could make the Government do anything on the basis of their organised strength, he said”

That was secular A.K.Antony when he was the secular chief minister of the secular congress government in secular kerala.

But the minorities used this opportunity to yet again prove they can make secular India do anything they wish – they made Antony withdraw these remarks.

Having said all that in the blog, I still feel that there has been an excess of violence on the part of the groups calling themselves hindu activists. Burning schools and orphanages is absolutely no way to protest against conversion. The sad reality of india is that all political parties need these violent groups to protect their interests and the lack of condemnation of these terrible activities by mainstream parties like BJP is bad news. In the long run, I think we should not give in to viloent elements pillaiging in the name of relegion. We will end up being talibanised.

Self confessed protectors of relegious interests have always been against progressive thinking- my father tells me that widow remarriage and right to propertiy of hindu women were debated, a great number of ” so called relegious” were against it. I am surprised that RC is supporting these violent actions.

Hey Revathi,
RC does not seem to be supporting these things. I believe that what he wonders is the foreign intervention in this issue and moreover none of us have responded to these statements as it’s a 100% internal affair and foreign intervention is highly undesirable and unnecessary.

Dear Reality Check,
I’m a big fan of your blog and read it religiously. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. On an off note to this topic, I’ve been wondering about the cricket statistic where it is shown that brahmins have been in the majority all the time. I’m sure you would have come across Siriyan Anand’s article on outlook regarding the same. I’m really interested in knowing your opinion on this. Brahmins being the minority and usually considered not so physically aggressive, how are they able to dominate? Is this not about brahminism but more about city vs non-city stats. Even after googling for a while, I couldn’t find any convincing answers. It would be great if you would consider it worthwhile to write on this.

“Castism” are lies created by The West. It’s Western propaganda to keep us Indians down. A divide and conquer strategy.

Look at their coverage of the flooding in Bihar. The BBC tries to portray us Indians as being incompetant and corrupt. Even some of our our media are being influenced to appease the foreigners. Nothing could be further from the truth. The army and civil society handled the floodings from day one and continue to do so with herculean effort.

Even more sickening is The West’s coverage “praising” Communist China on their belated and incompetant response to the Earthquake in May. It’s known fact that the Chinese never even bothered to respond to the disaster in Sichuan and faked the entire thing as the Western media ate up the Chinese propaganda.

It will be good to ask these women and children of they blame it all on the evil brahmin. These are the backward people in whose name the social justice game is being played, and even the supreme court is gutless.

These places he writes about are also big on evangelism, in south TN. Wait for the day when the evangelical zeal pits these helpless people against one another.

I think people should condemn violent acts whenever and wherever they happen. If India can critisize Saddam Hussein’s execution ( none of our business) I dont see why Italy cannot make a noise over Orissa. Whether we take it seriously or not is another matter.

Saddam Hussein’s case was an international issue and almost every nation had their own opinion and say in that. Kandhamal issue is not an international one. Several nations do not even know about it. Italy is the nation which is showing too much interest in it.While we condemn the violence,let us also not the forget the root cause – Fraudelent Conversions.
which is being ignored/shrouded by the pseudo-secular forces for the past 60+ years.

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