Let's look at who they have to beat to be one of the top 8 teams in the conference.

Playoff Locks:
Miami
Detroit
Cleveland
New Jersey

No Playoff Locks:
Charlotte
Toronto
Atlanta

Fighting for 4 Spots:
-Top Tier-
Chicago
Washington

-Bubble-
Indiana
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Boston
Orlando
New York

The Magic are certainly in the mix, but it's gonna be a dog fight to keep your head above the rest of the teams fighting for the last four playoff spots. The Magic may not have the maturity to do it just yet.

Let's look at who they have to beat to be one of the top 8 teams in the conference.

Playoff Locks:
Miami
Detroit
Cleveland
New Jersey

No Playoff Locks:
Charlotte
Toronto
Atlanta

Fighting for 4 Spots:
-Top Tier-
Chicago
Washington

-Bubble-
Indiana
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Boston
Orlando
New York

The Magic are certainly in the mix, but it's gonna be a dog fight to keep your head above the rest of the teams fighting for the last four playoff spots. The Magic may not have the maturity to do it just yet.

If I were betting, I'd say "no playoffs for Orlando this year."

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4 open spots, Ben could be Subtraction by addition with Chicago, Washington is going backwards, Indy will make the playoffs, Milwaukee is treading water, Phily backwards, Boston is improving, Orlando and NY will be the suprises.

It is really early, even before pre-season, but I will join the prognosticators. As you all know I go by feel and heart, not by stats:

1. Cleveland - Miami is just too old; the Cavs are only a little better than
2. Detroit - Only slightly behind the Cavs and better than
3. Miami - They could drop like a rock if they do not get a lot of luck
4. N. J. - is on the decline but may be slightly better than the Magic; This could flip-flop.
5. Orlando - with a little luck could pass N. J.
6. Indianapolis - they always find a way to fail due to injuries, etc
7. Chicago - Just don't see Ben making a good difference there
8. Washington - will sneak in ahead of Milwaukee and Phillie.

The entire East is better so I don't look for any clubs to run off huge winning streaks or big leads in games won. The whole East will be pretty close for a big part of the season.

I feel that Miami's window is slamming shut. Cleveland and Detroit are something of the cream of the East, but I also place a lot of credence on the Magic's late surge. They lost games until they absorbed the new players and then beat quite a few of the best teams, all of whom were still playing hard for seed positions. They creamed Cleveland and had good wins against S.A., Utah, and Detroit, to name just a few.

Sorry but your list seems very.... interesting. I See the east more like this.

Miami- Dwayne Wade is enough even if Shaq is on the decline
Detroit- Still the best team in central
Cleveland- If Lebrons supporting cast pans out
New Jersey- Carter, Kidd, Jefferson, enough said
Chicago- Better team w/Ben
Washington- Gilbert is playing with a vengeance
Indiana- No Artest Drama
Bucks- Villanueava

Sorry but your list seems very.... interesting. I See the east more like this.

Miami- Dwayne Wade is enough even if Shaq is on the decline

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wade got exposed in fiba games. he may not be the nba sweetheart anymore. he may have to play by the regular rules.

Detroit- Still the best team in central

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agree if flip plays the bench.

Cleveland- If Lebrons supporting cast pans out

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they won't

New Jersey- Carter, Kidd, Jefferson, enough said

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all will be injured

Chicago- Better team w/Ben

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better at what?? ben brings ego to the team. i wonder if skiles will make sure ben gets his shots.

Washington- Gilbert is playing with a vengeance

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never met a shot he didn't like. he isn't enough

Indiana- No Artest Drama

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same city will find new excuses for not winning. it's time to blow it up

Bucks- Villanueava

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lost tj

orlando will by the end of the season either have arguably the best starting 5 in basketball in jameer, grant hill, hedo, darko* and dwight or do a major trade with grant's contract to push them over the hump into the playoffs. i have them all the way up to the 2 seed as a possibility. they were opening plenty of cans on people at the end of the season and it wasn't fluke games.

But why were they so bad for most of the season? Arroyo and Darko did not add that much.

I think they just got hot.

I see them with deficiencies at the point, SG, SF and Center. Nelson is not really a point, Tukoglu is not that good ( just got extremely hot for that period ), Hill will not last the season and Darko has a long way to go.

ORL will not make the playoffs but they will win just enough to give us a 10+ type pick.

But why were they so bad for most of the season? Arroyo and Darko did not add that much.

I think they just got hot.

I see them with deficiencies at the point, SG, SF and Center. Nelson is not really a point, Tukoglu is not that good ( just got extremely hot for that period ), Hill will not last the season and Darko has a long way to go.

ORL will not make the playoffs but they will win just enough to give us a 10+ type pick.

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Max, from what I have gleaned from reading the forums over there are several things. One, Darko, Arroyo, and Ariza DID add quite a lot. Two, the trade of the previous point guard (can't think of his name right now) lifted a real weight off the shoulders of the team as a whole. Three, they filled major holes with Carlos, Darko, and Ariza. The trades opened Dwight up to do more damage and Carlos gave them great minutes off the bench, bringing the crowd of Latinos into the game.

They have only one hole now, that of the 2 guard. There are those who believe JJ will fill it and they have added Bogans as well. And you will not convince them that Hedo is not that good.

You can't tell the Magic fans that Jameer is not a true point guard and there are some who think Carlos is the cat's pajamas, as well. They have a deep bench and even the question marks like Augustine and JJ could be solved. James should be able to play limited minutes and they are both experienced 4 year major college vets. JJ is very possibly the additional 3 point threat they have been needing. And with Hedo and Trevor, Grant might not play long minutes and therefore might last the entire season. And with Darko, Dwight and Carlos coming into the season with major accomplishments during the summer, they might hit the ground running.

The fans down in Florida believe in the coming twin towers rebirth. I bet you might admit that they have some scary potential. Just a couple of injuries on other East teams might let Orlando climb.

There are other things as well, but this is a Piston forum, so I will shut up. But I think with the changes in the Pistons and in the Magic, this will be a season I might really enjoy. I think they will both be interesting to watch.

You can't be sure of that yet. Tyson Chandler was very big and that helped Chicago as well. Tyson may not have been a good offensive player, but at least he can consistantly grab a ball of a pick and roll and dunk and make more than 25% of his free throws. Don't be surprised if Ben doesn't have too great of a year.

Max, from what I have gleaned from reading the forums over there are several things. One, Darko, Arroyo, and Ariza DID add quite a lot. Two, the trade of the previous point guard (can't think of his name right now) lifted a real weight off the shoulders of the team as a whole. Three, they filled major holes with Carlos, Darko, and Ariza. The trades opened Dwight up to do more damage and Carlos gave them great minutes off the bench, bringing the crowd of Latinos into the game.

They have only one hole now, that of the 2 guard. There are those who believe JJ will fill it and they have added Bogans as well. And you will not convince them that Hedo is not that good.

You can't tell the Magic fans that Jameer is not a true point guard and there are some who think Carlos is the cat's pajamas, as well. They have a deep bench and even the question marks like Augustine and JJ could be solved. James should be able to play limited minutes and they are both experienced 4 year major college vets. JJ is very possibly the additional 3 point threat they have been needing. And with Hedo and Trevor, Grant might not play long minutes and therefore might last the entire season. And with Darko, Dwight and Carlos coming into the season with major accomplishments during the summer, they might hit the ground running.

The fans down in Florida believe in the coming twin towers rebirth. I bet you might admit that they have some scary potential. Just a couple of injuries on other East teams might let Orlando climb.

There are other things as well, but this is a Piston forum, so I will shut up. But I think with the changes in the Pistons and in the Magic, this will be a season I might really enjoy. I think they will both be interesting to watch.

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Orlando fans always think they will have a great team ( no offense ).

I like Arroyo but he is not exactly going to get you over the top. Besides they are trying to develope Nelson. Nelson is short even for points these days, had almost 5 APG last year.

Its a raw young team. I know many poster here seem to like them, I just think they have some developement to do and there are many other teams better than them at this point.

The Magic are like a magnet... don't want to watch but next thing ya know you're sittin there analyzing this team.
This team has two major weaknesses... their perimeter defense is worse than the Pistons... and they have very few true athletes which means they can be beat in transition... they will foul quicker players.
You don't want to get in a half court game with them... this lets the shot blockers set up.
So far Howard has not allowed them to be exposed much in transition with his high % shooting and offensive rebounds.
Gotta press this team as they are a league leader in T.O.'s
I'm hoping teams will soon pick up on ways to beat them.

The more I watch the Magic, the more that I think their high FG% and turnovers are correlated. They commit most of their turns trying to feed Dwight deep in the post. They really do force a lot of passes in there. However, when they are successful, he just throws it down most of the time. In other words, forcing the ball in to him isn't that bad of a strategy.

I really don't think that they are a bad passing team... talent wise. Like Darko, he's not a bad passer, but he has his share of stupid turnovers. Those should go down as the year goes on. For now, it is pretty impressive that a team can win with 20 to's/ game.

Darko got the award for worst of the day in the ESPN daily dime today for his 0 point effort against the Grizzlies. However, Memphis did go on a 22-2 run in the 4th quarter after Coach Hill pulled him out of the game. And Darko was actually +2 for the game while he was on the court. I don't think it was coincidental since Battie got scored on 5 times in a row when he subbed in by Warrick.

It would be really nice to see Grant play through the whole season and show what he can do in the playoffs. How can you root against this guy? He looks like he still has the same stuff to me. He just doesn't take as many attempts as he did with the Pistons.

And what a great gesture for him if he actually re-signs with the Magic for the vet's minimum next year. He owes them for the 3 years of rehab that they paid him for. Still, not too many guys would 1) appreciate it, and 2) actually pay it back by signing a below market contract. We'll see if he really does it.