WHere do you see $8m for Manning? He lists $3.5m cap. Also, my understanding is Schaub's 2012 cap is apprx $7m not 9. i think you may be adding it twice.

If we know his contract is 4 years 20 million total, and have 12 million of that allotted to years 2-4, then we can infer that the other 8 million must be paid out somewhere. Either that 8 was paid in 2011 as salary/roster bonus/whatever, or he had a lower base salary like 4 million, and the other 4 million is incentive based. Whatever the case is, there is a lot of money missing in that equation and leads to more uncertainty when trying to GM using Rotoworld info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan

Something that's interesting and potentially significant, that I haven't heard discussed at all (by anyone), is that Article 13 Section 6 of the current CBA specifically limits the number of years a signing bonus can be prorated over to 5.

Here's the exact language:

The previous CBA had essentially the same language, but limited it to 6. If I understand this correctly, it means Matt's initial signing bonus was likely fully amortized at the end of last season.

Good to know, but Schaub's deal was signed under the old CBA in 2007. I kinda doubt they would change existing contracts to meet the new rules and place unexpected cap burdens on the teams.

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If Matt's deal was 6 years long, his signing bonus would have been paid out in equal installments over those 6 years using the old CBA. The new CBA limits that to 5 years, which came into effect with 2 years left on Matt's deal. Unless the new CBA changes existing contracts like Matt's, I don't see how that would effect his payments. Going forward, every deal made will be effected by that rule.

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Life is too important to be taken seriously. -Oscar Wilde

Because 2011 was the sixth year of his seven year contract - meaning his signing bonus had to be fully prorated at the end of it. Hence - nothing left to amortize for 2012.

Oh, that's the miscommunication. Schaub's deal was 6 years long with a 7 mill signing bonus.

Quote:

3/21/2007: Signed a six-year, $48 million contract. The deal included a $7 million signing bonus and a $10 million option in the fourth season. 2012: $7.15 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus due 3/17), 2013: Free Agent

Thanks for repeating what I and some others have been posting for weeks. In a less detailed format, I've posted Mario's $20m 2011 cap + $4.5 savings from Winston +$5.2m Andre's+ Leinert's base $2.5m = $32million. We have spent $8m on Foster and crakerjacks on Weeks.
32-8= $24million available to spend once Mario signs elsewhere. We will see mucho movement when Mario decides.

Good post.

badboy, I've taken your posts into consideration when trying to decipher our situation. I've mentioned your calculations, & all others similar, as plausible & as far as I could tell, most accurate.

However, none of the things that happened in the last 27 hours make sense if your calculations are correct (same for G27RR) as there would be no reason to cut Winston, Leinart, Vickers, (possibly Jj), or restructure Andre's contract at this time, simply to save just $15M of cap space if we were already $15M or so under.

badboy, I've taken your posts into consideration when trying to decipher our situation. I've mentioned your calculations, & all others similar, as plausible & as far as I could tell, most accurate.

However, none of the things that happened in the last 27 hours make sense if your calculations are correct (same for G27RR) as there would be no reason to cut Winston, Leinart, Vickers, (possibly Jj), or restructure Andre's contract at this time, simply to save just $15M of cap space if we were already $15M or so under.

Unless they are trying to keep Mario, Myers and Brisiel. They may have put 15 aside for Mario and are trying to free up more to offer to Myers while we wait for Mario to decide.

If we know his contract is 4 years 20 million total, and have 12 million of that allotted to years 2-4, then we can infer that the other 8 million must be paid out somewhere. Either that 8 was paid in 2011 as salary/roster bonus/whatever, or he had a lower base salary like 4 million, and the other 4 million is incentive based. Whatever the case is, there is a lot of money missing in that equation and leads to more uncertainty when trying to GM using Rotoworld info.

Good to know, but Schaub's deal was signed under the old CBA in 2007. I kinda doubt they would change existing contracts to meet the new rules and place unexpected cap burdens on the teams.

My understanding was his 2012 was the $7m + .5 for roster bonus. The $10 million he got as a one time payment and was not prorated.

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I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need

badboy, I've taken your posts into consideration when trying to decipher our situation. I've mentioned your calculations, & all others similar, as plausible & as far as I could tell, most accurate.

However, none of the things that happened in the last 27 hours make sense if your calculations are correct (same for G27RR) as there would be no reason to cut Winston, Leinart, Vickers, (possibly Jj), or restructure Andre's contract at this time, simply to save just $15M of cap space if we were already $15M or so under.

I think Mario is saying you paid me $20m last year and you want to sign me for what? As has been reported on all radio and TV, Myers is being tempted with more than Texans expected elsewhere. I believe Texans thought Myers would say "Hey I made probowl as a center in this O. so I will get a healthy increase and retire a Texan." Instead, he realized "Holy smoke, I can get THAT much elsewhere!" Smith knows he has to have a center for ZBS that can call assignments for the Oline. He messed up by not having someone trained to do that. Wade Smith when signed said he preferred OG but could play center. Caldwell was drafted & many said he'd beat Myers out first year. Briesel was our backup center, but uh oh he may be gone also.

I think TexCanada has it about right. SMith has set aside $15m + for Mario and about $5 to $6m for Myers with left over for Briesel. If true and I see nothing to indicate it is not, this exactly fits the last 27 hours. I think Texans, especially McNair want Mario to retire in Houston and is desperately doing all it can to accomplish that goal. I think Myers will be back and other reporters are now saying that today.

The $15m you mention prior to AJ and Winston and Leinert may not be enough for Mario let alone the other two.

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I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need

I'm still not seeing it. With $15M to $20M & we're only counting our top 51 players....

Even signing Mario to a $15M/yr deal, most likely his cap number would be $10M-$12M......

Even with a $15M cap hit, we could cut those players when Mario/Myers signed their deals. We would also have time to restructure contracts (which I thought we would have heard more about three weeks ago).

I think it was to show the players that Texans are negotiating seriously saying "see here's the money. Come on back." This would be important if they are asking Myers and Briesel not to sign elsewhere before giving Texans a chance.

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I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need

This, but I'll have to check when I get a chance. Worst case, you take another $1.16M off my total.

This? I quoted you Rotoworld with the excerpt about Schaub's deal. It's plain as day that he got a signing bonus, and it's likely that it was prorated over the entire 6 years of his deal. Did you not get your numbers from Rotoworld's contract database? Because it's pretty obvious that your numbers match up exactly with theirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy

and that is miniscule.

Yeah if you consider 8% of your 15 million in capspace projection insignificant. But that's not all, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, there is 18 million of unaccounted money between Manning and OD's contracts. You nor the OP can tell me exactly how much of that was paid in 2011, nor how much of it will be paid in the future, nor how that money is structured. We simply don't know. I'm willing to bet those two didn't earn 18 million together last year.

4 years, 1.852 million. Now we know 101k went to signing bonus, and we know that league minimum is ~400k since he was drafted, then how does he earn 70% of his total contract value in year 4 of it? Was he really paid only 550k over the last 3 years? That can't possibly be true, but it just goes to show that none of these numbers are perfect, and we can't make up the Texans' cap by aggregating all this info.

__________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously. -Oscar Wilde