Posted
by
Unknown Lamer
on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @08:33AM
from the it's-not-like-anyone-buys-them-anyway dept.

Dupple writes with news that the DOJ took a few Android app piracy sites offline. From the release: "Seizure orders have been executed against three website domain names engaged in the illegal distribution of copies of copyrighted Android cell phone apps, Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer of the Department of Justice's Criminal Division, U.S. Attorney Sally Quillian Yates of the Northern District of Georgia and Special Agent in Charge Brian D. Lamkin of the FBI's Atlanta Field Office announced today. The department said that this is the first time website domains involving cell phone app marketplaces have been seized. The seizures are the result of a comprehensive enforcement action taken to prevent the infringement of copyrighted mobile device apps. The operation was coordinated with international law enforcement, including Dutch and French law enforcement officials."

Ah, but the commie Linux users do understand the/. scoring system since they have already downloaded the Slashcode source and read it. They don't understand user interfaces though so they did not connect the source they read with the elements in the web page.

Too bad everyone's not using 1 thoroughly monopolozed...I mean centralized Apple store. Then instead of virus infested counterfeit apps, they'd only have to deal with Apple secret police kidnapping apps randomly out of the store for no reason, insane overpricing/insane profit margins, psychotic Apple geniuses (see story a couple down from this one:-P ) and human rights violations.

If you would listen to an Apple conference call, you would find out that iTunes and the App Store barely make any profit. Apple's margins come from hardware sales due to their mastery of their supply chain, not from overpriced 99c songs or 99c apps.

I thought it was increasingly the other way around - that's why they killed off the xserve, to focus on the consumer space rather than corporate. Do you have any reliable figures? Because I'm too lazy to google for them right now.

I'm glad there's a thriving Android piracy scene out there. I don't have any problem shelling out money for Android apps, yet I've looked for pirated APKs on a few occasions.

Why would I do this??? After all, they're only $1-5usd, and the overwhelming majority of the apps are free anyhow, so a few paid apps is no big expense (contrast this with IOS, where you've gotta pay for EVERYTHING). Well, there's a few different scenarios at work.

True, but exactly the same problems have happened with Apple. There have been issues with some apps needing updates for new models of iPad, or app developers changing apps to remove features or add advertising to the free version, or whole apps being disappeared for legal reasons. For all the differences in how they market, at a business level they really operate in very similar ways.

So your argument is that the android platform is crap and stuff doesn't work on it

Nope. The "compatibility" I mentioned earlier has to do with hardware... whether a given chipset can send the proper signals. It would be simpler with only 7 different sets of hardware, but "simpler" might just mean "doesn't work anywhere, ever, no matter what"... That's pretty simple, isn't it?

And that google lets shitty apps get out all the time to the point that you cannot trust anything?

Of course they don't mention what apps were being illegally copied. In addition, they don't mention who requested the take down. Is this a case of true piracy, where people were circumventing paying for software? Or, is this a case where people were downloading free apps, but not through the google app store? If the latter, exactly what copyright was being infringed?

I have been interested in the differences in the various banners that are put up on these seized sites. I have a Python script I run now and then to gather all of the banners. Right now I have 16 banners from 757 seized domains hosted at 4 IPs. If you'd like to see them, you can check out the Picasa Web Album [google.com].

"In most cases, the servers storing the apps sold by these alternative online markets were being hosted in other countries, and our international law enforcement partners assisted in obtaining or seizing evidence stored on these servers."

It's immoral to allow some to determine the distribution of their work for a limited time?

Yes, it is. You don't do it by yourself, you know? You go to nanny State and papa Government and beg them to please, pretty please, violate the property rights of every single other human being on Earth for your own benefit, so that my computer isn't mine anymore, it's the government's, which now merely allows me to use it in the ways they deem right and legit. That's quite immoral, yes.

Which isn't to mean authors shouldn't be rewarded. But they should be rewards in whatever way the free market develops, not by way of employing the full force of the hugest apparatus of violence ever assembled in the History of mankind.

No, but what if the only means of effective enforcement is via immoral actions? Piracy is just too commonplace to have any chance of stopping it while bound by the need for fair trials and real evidence. The only effective means would be preemptive mass censorship and guilty-until-proven-innocent punishments on flimsy evidence. It's that hard to stop people committing a crime when doing so takes only a commonplace tool and about thirty seconds, and the chance of detection is so low.

Does this not make you scared: "In most cases, the servers storing the apps sold by these alternative online markets were being hosted in other countries, and our international law enforcement partners assisted in obtaining or seizing evidence stored on these servers."I really hate the extent to which the US is exerting its thought crime laws in other sovereign nations. I guess not so sovereign any more.

Does this not make you scared: "In most cases, the servers storing the apps sold by these alternative online markets were being hosted in other countries, and our international law enforcement partners assisted in obtaining or seizing evidence stored on these servers."I really hate the extent to which the US is exerting its thought crime laws in other sovereign nations. I guess not so sovereign any more.

Hmmm... labelling copyright violations as "thought crime laws" is what makes me more scared. Come on, people -- we're talking about apps that cost the same as a cup of coffee (if not less). If you've ever written software, you'd know how much work it is; why do people get so upset at having to occasionally pay to support an independent developer?

(disclaimer -- personally, I release all my software as free and open source, but I also believe that it's completely fair and reasonable if people want to charge for what they write.)

I really hate the extent to which the US is exerting its thought crime laws in other sovereign nations. I guess not so sovereign any more.

Thought crime? Have you even read 1984? A thought crime is a "crime" in which the mere desiring something contrary to the law is itself a punishable criminal act. No proposed copyright law has come even close to being a "thought crime." You do genuine civilian libertarians absolutely no good with this extremist hyperbole and only make the rest of us copyright minimalists look like idiots.

Heck, while I'm at it, I have news for you. We have these modern law enforcement mechanisms called "extraditions" and "international partnerships." This means that if people from your country screw over the US Government in the US, you help us stop them. Believe it or not, the US Government has actually done this in reverse on behalf of foreign countries such as when it puts Americans in prison for going to places like Uganda and Thailand to rape children or when it arrests Americans who raise funds for guerrilla groups abroad.

Yes, your shrill, deliberate mis-use of the term "thought crime" and purposeful embrace of the practice of ripping off thousands of man-hours of work in order to save the cost of a cup of coffee - that is scary. Because it shows just how entrenched the entitlement-minded leech culture is.

It's just convenient for you to arbitrarily decide that your own opinions about subjective matters are somehow more correct?

Who said anything about subjective? Rationally derived opinions are always superior to irrationally derived ones. Opinions based on fantasy are always inferior to opinions based on facts and reality. People who say that all opinions have equal merit are just intellectually lazy, and can't be bothered to talk about substance because that will shine light on the mixed premises and irrationalities underlying their world view. They find that uncomfortable, so they attempt to cover it up by being moral relativi

1. Copyright infringement is not theft. It's a crime under the law, but it is not defined as theft, otherwise it wouldn't be a separate thing, called copyright infringement.

2. Why is it a criminal offence to steal? Why is the government involved in judging people criminally for theft? Why shouldn't it be a completely private matter between the 2 private sides? OK, when it is stolen from government or when government is doing the stealing, then it would make sense, but government being involved in theft ca

Just because the patent system is broken does not mean the concept of patents is wrong. Same with copyrights. One could easily argue that without some sort of IP protection, consumers wouldn't have more choice, but less. Theoretically, patents and copyrights protect the small guy from having their IP being stolen by the big corporations you list. Without patents and copyrights, I could create something and somebody else, with more money come along and just undersell me until I couldn't afford it any more

- right, I said that government shouldn't be involved in this, what I mean obviously is that there shouldn't be government laws on things like copyright or actually theft if it doesn't concern the government itself.

So, if you pitch a screen play, I as the producer should be able to say no, and then take your idea and do my own screen play based on your work without you being compensated?

Or if you come up with a new device and show it to me, I should be able to take your device make a million of them and sell them to everyone and you get no benefit from it?

Isn't that how it was prior to the creation of patent and copyright laws?

Christ, what idiot modded that "insightful"? It shows no insight, in fact shows the commenter lives in a fantasy world.

You do realise that 90% of all stolen items are never recovered and 90% of theives get away? And if you do catch the guy who stole your cow, how is he going to compensate you for it after he's eaten it? He wouldn't be stealing unless he was destitute or insane. He's not going to have anything to compensate you with. Also, I see you've never been burglarized or robbed. It's a traumatic exper

That's one way to look at it. Here's another: when you copy and distribute software without authorization (which allegedly those sites did), you basically substitute the legitimate distribution channel (which pays the author) by another which doesn't pay the author. This can result in substantial losses for the author. Alternatively, when you shoplift, only the retailer is the only one losing and typically he has insurance to cover such loses. Hard to say which is worse...

Here's another: when you copy and distribute software without authorization (which allegedly those sites did), you basically substitute the legitimate distribution channel (which pays the author) by another which doesn't pay the author.

For one thing, when I buy a lawfully made copy of a work distributed on a physical medium, use it, and then sell it used to someone else, that distribution channel doesn't pay the author either, but the law doesn't prohibit it. For another, what's "the legitimate distribution channel" for copies of the film Song of the South, the television series Spartakus and the Sun Beyond the Sea, or the video game Earthbound?

Alternatively, when you shoplift, only the retailer is the only one losing and typically he has insurance to cover such loses.

Watch for broken window fallacies here. If there were no shoplifting, insurance would be cheape

Pickpocketing is against the law - does that mean it's the same thing as rape because they both involve inappropriate touching? Or, maybe, we can make use of this "language" thingy and have different words for substantially different things....

It's still rape, as one inevitably doesn't "clean up afterwards". There's still the chance for transmission of sperm and disease. My point is that shoplifting is not copyright infringement, and copyright infringement is not shoplifting. The law defines them separately because they exist for separate reasons.

Doesn't even need that. The NET act redefined the 'commercially' part to include an expectation of receiving infringing works in payment, which is quite broad. Up to a five year prison term per infringement, plus $250,000 fine. It was passed in response to the old BBS systems, but applies just as much to p2p.

But it'd still be a domain name that can be taken down. The only way I can see would be to get a domain name under a country-code where the US holds no influence, and the national government doesn't even pretend to care about piracy. Somewhere like Russia. There are a number of blatantly infringing music services operating on.ru domains.

It depends on how one defines "piracy problem," like e.g. at what point does piracy become a problem and when it isn't a problem, and who is it a problem to anyways? Is it a problem if there's over 1% piracy rate? If so then iOS, Android, BB, Windows, OSX, Linux, BeOS, DOS and so on would have a "piracy problem." Or is it a problem only when popular things are being pirated? Atleast I don't see law enforcement ever going after pirates for spreading some niche product that only appeals to a small base, even if the piracy rates in that base were over 90%. Is piracy a problem to the users, is it a problem to developers who are actually still making nice profit even with 40% piracy rates, or is it a problem to publishers who cry foul even about a single pirated copy even if they're raking in cash like madmen, all just because they want every single last penny in their pockets? I don't see users complaining about piracy, and I see plenty of developers who simply ignore piracy as long as they're generating profit, I only see these money-hungry entities complaining.

Even if we just focus on the fact that there's piracy on Android-platform we have to look at its surroundings: Android is very similar to e.g. Windows in terms of end-user-oriented openness, allowing one to install and remove software freely. Only Android, however, is getting flak for piracy at the moment, piracy on PCs is being ignored. Why? Well, because people like OP like to jump on whatever happens to be the new trend, because developers these days are trained to believe that any amount of piracy whatsoever is a problem, and because, well, most Android-apps are crappy, shallow pieces of sh*t and cost mere pennies -- the general populace won't see the apps worth much if even the developers themselves don't, therefore said populace won't see it as a loss for the developer if they just pirate the things instead. Combine said arbitrary worthlessness with an open platform and it's no wonder piracy exists.

All that said the developers and publishers themselves are to blame for their problems: make your apps worth not pirating, and either develop only for walled-garden platforms or accept piracy as a fact of life and ignore it as long as you're still generating profits.

The fandroids said so!!! This is all just Apple FUD!!

No, I'm not an iShiny faggot, either.

To be honest, your sexual orientation is not relevant here nor does it reflect on your intellect in any way or form. The use of terms like "fandroids," "iShiny," and "faggot" along with multiple exclamation marks and the lack of any kind of argument whatsoever does, however. I do realize your comment was an attempt at trolling Slashdot-users and you were hoping for some enraged comments which is why I so much enjoy responding to these kinds of attempts with calm, coherent comments -- think of it as reverse trolling, if you will.

I am an indi developer. I worked for 1 1/2 years to create my game Block Story [blockstory.net]

I can see my game all over pirate sites, and their download count completely eclipse my sales. I could be working full time on my game by now if only 1/3 of those users legally purchased the game.

Every day I send takedown notices to multiple sites, which are a problem, because I have to disclose where I live in those notices. Not exactly something I enjoy doing, and I waste time doing this instead of developing more. Only to s

Every day I send takedown notices to multiple sites, which are a problem, because I have to disclose where I live in those notices. Not exactly something I enjoy doing, and I waste time doing this instead of developing more.

Yes, and? You're doing exactly what I told you not to do: you're wasting your time trying to prevent something that you simply CANNOT prevent. Either ignore piracy and just focus on developing your stuff or start developing for something else. Sending takedown notices and using your time on that is definitely not a productive way of using it. Do you believe that piracy of your game will somehow magically stop if you just send enough notices, or that it somehow discourages pirates? Or hell, do you believe th

I could be on a space tourist trip to Mars if even 10% of those people were prepared to spend 1c on an any Android software whatsoever. You live in cloud cuckoo land.

The expectation is actually quite realistic, given the fact that we have already reached top 20 paid game on amazon (just today, but changes by the hour), and we have not even hit apple store or pc yet.

I was not arguing that making a living off a half-way descent game was difficult. I was arguing that almost all the people who pirate it would NEVER pay for any game. Either they pirate it or they do without. They might pay if their income depended on it, but for a game, no! Income is limited. The supply of free games is not.

Piracy is a problem. Sending DMCA notices, while a decent band-aid, is not a solution. Also, piracy exists, and widely, on Windows Phone, iPhone, and every other device.

I don't know about you, but I rarely give money to people who fight me, threaten me, or give me ultimatums. I routinely give money to people who treat me like a decent human being. I'm the success story Steam has been looking for. In the mid to late nineties, and the early 2000s, I pirated everything. If I could pirate it, and I used the sof

So, you made a mobile knockoff (looks identical, has hell=nether, skeletons, dragon) of a hit game and you are now mad because you have to compete with the mobile release + pirated version of the original? Maybe you should have written an original game to start with?
In the first sentence of the description on your website you say

This is a game like Minecraft with an RPG spin

Why would anyone looking for a mobile version of minecraft prefer your knockoff over the original?

I can sympathize with your feelings, and I can completely understand your reaction. I've considered Android development also, and this concern has made me hesitant. However, I think that you overlooking some things and overestimating the impact (just as many publishers do).

The simple truth is, the reason that so many people pirate your game is because they can. Trying to stop it from happening is like playing whack-a-mole. It will continue popping up elsewhere (or maybe even in the same place). You are

Have you considered putting Block Story on RIM's PlayBook platform? Since version 2.0 of the PlayBook OS, they've supported Android executables (although you do have to repackage them). It seems to help with downloads [yahoo.com] and sales [fiercemobilecontent.com].

It's a trivial "port" if your app doesn't require native code, so it's not a huge investment on your part. BlackBerry 10 is going to support Android apps too, so you won't be limited to just the PlayBook for long.

so basically, your logic is that if developers make something crappy, then they deserve to have it stolen?

Please, do point to where I said anything like that, because I cannot find such; I was talking about how people generally view shallow/crappy stuff worthless, especially if they're already priced at pennies, so the developers of such are themselves contributing to the issue. By making the apps/games/whatnot seem actually worth some money people would feel more inclined to actually pay for them. That is not the same thing as me trying to defend piracy or saying the devs "deserve" such.

All that said the developers and publishers themselves are to blame for their problems: make your apps worth not pirating, and either develop only for walled-garden platforms or accept piracy as a fact of life and ignore it as long as you're still generating profits.

The moment you used the word "copies" you implicitly denied is is stealing. Stealing is taking something from someone - note the "from" part as in they no longer have it - and while unlicensed copying is also illegal, it is not theft any more than it is rape (another illegal act).

It's perfectly reasonable to expect to be paid when someone makes use of your work.

It's perfectly unreasonable to expect everyone to agree with you.

Some players in the game poke fun at pirates in a variety of ways. You could put pirate hats on all of the game characters if you detect a possibly illegal copy. You could put a "please, if you like this game, pay for it" message before the game starts with a check box that says "Check this box if you have already paid." and then never show it again.

Show kindness and generosity to people and they will be more likely to return it.

simply not true; people, including myself have experimented with donate-ware. it simply doesn't work.

i have a relatively popular (hundreds of thousands of downloads) android application. it's free and open source with no ads. i also have the exact same app published for a price of $1 and i make it clear to folks that the donate app and the free app are exactly the same so there's no catches.

couldn't be more honest and generous than that i'd say. however, last year, i made about $30 donations.

I am actually quite amazed that iOS piracy is so unchecked and that no servers have been seized. Once jailbroken, any app is available malware free off one site that self-polices and pretty much everyone trusts.

What's happening is that 1) in general apple users are willing to pay for stuff; 2) jailbreaking is a greater hurdle to overcome than sideloading; and as a result there is a lower iOS piracy rate and more profit for developers.

Most of our customers disagree with your assessment of "shitty app" given the fact that we score 4.4/5 in google play. Go ahead, read the reviews, or god forbid try the free version (not even ads), before jumping to the default conclusion that the app is shitty because I complain about piracy.

Also, pick whatever you consider to be the best app for android, And I will show you 5-10 sites where it is being pirated, so your argument does not hold any water. If anything, the higher the quality of the app, the

$10 app not valued at $10 - it still might not be worth the effort; but those greedy app developers can motivate somebody to put in more than $10 of their time just out of spite.

If you are going out of business anyway you may as well lower the price before you go under. Stop blaming everybody else except yourself. You don't set your value it doesn't matter what you think your work is worth; the consumers decide that and maybe there is no middle

That's the only thing keeping me from even thinking of purchasing anything from them. I don't have a credit card, nor I want one, and I am not willing to give Google all my real identity data by binding a bank account to them.Google being as it is, I can't trust them to not display my real name in my account or invalidate my account because my real name and given google name do not match.

Not to mention, there are many things I can't purchase even if I paid money for them. Because the point of digital distri