I believe that almost every one that joins an aikido dojo are wanting to learn to defend themselves.Learning to defend oneself puts u on a higher plane once u realize that its not hard to hurt people then u have true respect for other people and their rants and challenges to u become more of a joke.If you are in a school where your ukes fall from the slightest touch and are thrown from the slightest thought of a kote-hineri and offer u no resistance at all then if u ever have to use your skills in real life then you will be in for a very rude awakening.If you are of the belief that you can throw some one by some mystic power then you will also be badly caught out.All i am saying is practice realisim in your dojo.O ut of all the the hundreds of possible throws and locks in aikido every one will only use maybe 5 or 6 of them with different applications because they are the ones that work for them in most situations even though they have the skill to do them all they will always revert back to those 5 or 6 when in harms way.

andrew

09-18-2000, 12:08 PM

RONIN wrote:
.If you are of the belief that you can throw some one by some mystic power then you will also be badly caught out.
Speaking for myself, I've been a firm believer in the part about "mystic" power or ability coming from the kind of insight you _might_ get through down to earth, practical, incessant training for years. Maybe.
andrew

akiy

09-18-2000, 12:57 PM

RONIN wrote:
I believe that almost every one that joins an aikido dojo are wanting to learn to defend themselves.
Maybe. But it's not necessarily their primary reason (http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=5).
Learning to defend oneself puts u on a higher plane once u realize that its not hard to hurt people then u have true respect for other people and their rants and challenges to u become more of a joke.
A "higher plane"? I don't think so. Maybe a more relaxed attitude towards certain situations, but certainly not a "higher plane."
O ut of all the the hundreds of possible throws and locks in aikido every one will only use maybe 5 or 6 of them with different applications because they are the ones that work for them in most situations even though they have the skill to do them all they will always revert back to those 5 or 6 when in harms way.
True, but quite a lot of the techniques that we study are, in my opinion, ways to work on principles.

Once again, I ask you to follow the Forum Rules and sign your posts with your real name. Thank you.

-- Jun

akiy

09-18-2000, 12:59 PM

andrew wrote:
Speaking for myself, I've been a firm believer in the part about "mystic" power or ability coming from the kind of insight you _might_ get through down to earth, practical, incessant training for years. Maybe.[/B]
I once heard a story about Harry Houdini, one of the most accomplished magicians in history. Once, he was asked what the secret of magic was. He said the secret was quite simple and could be summed up in one word.

Practice.

-- Jun

tedehara

09-18-2000, 02:16 PM

RONIN wrote:
If you are of the belief that you can throw some one by some mystic power then you will also be badly caught out....

Quite True. It shouldn't matter if you train for spiritual development or survival. You should try to train completely and be prepared for all possibilities.

RONIN wrote:

All i am saying is practice realisim in your dojo.O ut of all the the hundreds of possible throws and locks in aikido every one will only use maybe 5 or 6 of them with different applications because they are the ones that work for them in most situations even though they have the skill to do them all they will always revert back to those 5 or 6 when in harms way.

That reminds me of a problem Judo had. Some of its tournament players only knew 2 or 3 techniques. They used and practiced them rigourously for tournaments. In fact, you could say that they gave up the study of Judo to win tournaments. ;)

There are a lot of impractical things in Aikido. However, like finger exercises in piano playing, they can help you develop.

Aikido is a martial art, therefore it could be more than a group of techniques. But, that doesn't mean you can't develop your own short list of favorite techniques. :D

les paul

10-10-2000, 07:32 PM

WARNING WARNING!!!!this is a long windy response.

I'm new to Aikido and I had my doubt about Aikido as a martial art. I also figured it would be hard to find a real qualified instructor. I come from a Karate background(Shotokan & Shorin Ryu)so if anything I feel I can tell if an art has any martial context. I spent six months learning Yang "family" style Tai Chi Chuan from an instructor who had studied many years under Yang Zhen Duo(the 4th generation successor of the Yang family style of Tai Chi Chuan). This person didn't have a clue about the martial side of Tai Chi Chuan. The students were out of shape and thought Tai chi Chuan was all about slow moving chi/ki cultivation exercises. When I questioned the instructor about push hands and the two man form(basicly a sparring set), I got a blank look and a "we no fight here" statement from the instructor. As far as I'm concered the Actual Yang Family style of Tai Chi Chuan is long dead. I have since learned that most of the Tai Chi Chuan schools in my area are exactly like the one described.(are the Tai Chi schools in your area the same as mine?)

What does all this got to do with Aikido? Well, when I started looking into Aikido I found "some" of the same questionable practices. When people are talking alot about the metaphysical side of a martial art and there's little sparring or physical contact going on it's safe to assume there is NO! martial context in that art!

I'm glad to say that I found a very professional Aikido school with many styles of Randori(ground work, free style, multiple attackers etc...). I feel I'm learning real Aikido. Training is hard. It's filled with lot's of sweat, bodies flying and big hard break falls that give nice big bruises!(if you don't fall right)

I for one would hate to see Aikido go the way of Tai Chi Chuan. I think the original post is pointing this out. Frankly, if it's not real Aikido "no matter who or what school it originated
from" we shouldn't call it Aikido. Calling pseudo Hippy metaphysical arts "Aikido" is only degrading the real thing. Budo is Budo nothing less nothing more.........

Paul C
from Michigan

pantera

10-11-2000, 05:07 PM

I'm glad that you wrote what you did. I went through a phase where I questioned everything that was learned and how it was learned. The response my sensei gave me was a quote I think from O Sensei. Aikido is a way of life that also turns out to be great Budo. Deep stuff.

Actually, since some of the students complained that "Aikido" was not physical enough our sensei changed his teaching tactics slightly and we know do more active and tougher Aikido. What I mean is that we do fast repetitions after a slow phase and we often do variations with high or awkward ukemi for the students that feel like it. I participate in these because of my deep love for ukemi (I'm of nature a biggish kinda guy and sometimes a little clumsy) but I find that I now go out of breath much more in a session, which I like too.

Anyway. I though like throwing in my little too... :)

pieter

SmilingNage

10-12-2000, 09:35 AM

u have to remember that all the throws and locks and projections in aikido are all circumstantial. the response, ie iriminage, etc., to attack depends on the flow of the attack and ma-ai. so to limit yourself to 5/6 techniques really isnt a good idea. considering the many situations which life can give us

ian

10-12-2000, 10:35 AM

I feel that sometimes people miss the point of doing techniques in Aikido. Although we do basic restraining style techniques early on (ikkyo, nikkyo) to me these are just to get people interested. I'm a firm believer that there are no real techniques in Aikido. Aikido is always about its basics i.e. body movement, blending, extension etc. The techniques are clever ways of getting us to improve at these basics.

Its definately right when you say none of the techniques work like we practise them in the dojo. However knowing how to move my body and blend with agressors has helped me many times in real life. I would concede that knowing how to punch and elbow effectively is also a necessary requirement of 'street' aikido - but hopefully we develop that in our stylised attacks?

I think scrappy Aikido is no good to anyone. Every once in a while we should do something unexpected as an Uke - and I'm not one for dancing around (I think aikido should be very powerful), but if we're not learning blending we're not learning Aikido.