General Government Discussion Thread

I fail to see how speculation is bad. Speculation is just a financial act based on incomplete (aka partially "speculative") information. Information is not always available. Many venture capitalists have helped great things to happen. Since speculation is risky, and calculated risk is profit, speculation is more profitable and as such a normal part of a healthy market.

When speculation is used by enormous hedge funds to trade currencies they can effectively ruin a currency and in effect rob the people who hold the currency. This kind of currency speculation has often been used for economic warfare to create revolutions in countries with unstable economies. These hedge funds usually have the problem of an uncooperative puppet dictator in said country and need to create a revolution so as to have him thrown out by the people. It is often said that we are 9 meals away from revolution, so by ruining the currency of a country they can effectively starve the people into revolt. Then when the dust clears the same individuals who ruined the economy fund the campaign of the next puppet dictator.

I do understand that the current fiat money central banking system is complex as hell and has some issues, but Fed-related claims about the NWO are generally wrong.

That page only refutes that the owners of the new world order aren't foreign which is true, They are mostly American, but you see just because they aren't foreigners doesn't mean they don't have a continuity of agenda, and since the Board of Governors and the FOMC are appointed by the President and congress you can bet they are also in on it as well. The argument that just because the money is given to the federal government means that there is no one making profit from it is absolutely absurd. Remember the bailouts? Under the freedom of info act some concerned individuals obtained the information on where all our money went in the bailout, turns out that trillions went to foreign banks.

I'm not a fan of the government. It just doesn't seem to work. I just want to stay under the radar and let those guys ruin the world on their own. When the ship goes down, I'll jump ship.

Yes indeed, the ghost has returned:P

You might find jumping ship a little hard when martial law is instated and the borders are locked down due to "terrorist activities". Just sayin. It is in our best intrest as a people to stand up for our liberties and not let fascists ruin what our forefathers fought and died for.

Honestly I think marijuana legalization is the smallest issue facing America in these troubled times.

I would agree, but it's incredibly wasteful and stupid for the government to continue this entirely hypocritical policy of constriction of individual choice.

And lobbyists aren't necessarily bad; those who lobby for the advantage of the few over the many are the ones to look out for. Minorities can be represented, sure (and I'm not talking race), but the extent to which they are represented cannot exceed the will of the majority, which, frankly, is what has happened in the U.S; you have the very rich vying for the continuation of policies that benefit them over the common American and it is fundamentally self-destructive.

I'm waiting for the day when oil becomes so expensive that it's obsolete and people finally start seriously investing in more renewable energy sources. The costs of importing oil, the strain on the American consumer, almost completely eliminated. In my opinion, it is clearly more economically beneficial to pay little for energy and have a continuous, clean source than to pay more for oil that is constantly affected by the market.

You might find jumping ship a little hard when martial law is instated and the borders are locked down due to "terrorist activities". Just sayin. It is in our best intrest as a people to stand up for our liberties and not let fascists ruin what our forefathers fought and died for.

I don't care about some dude thats been dead for hundreds of years. Patriotism is one of the greatest tricks played on humanity.

Life's too short and too important to me to waste my time on something as futile as that. Now if you will excuse me, I'm off to draw stuffs and play GTA and jack some foo's!

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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox

Patriotism is the ultimate form of pathos. It even surpasses your crying mother and the death of innocent children.

When I kiss the flag of the United States of America, I am actually kissing every crackpot policy that that flag has ever put forth. The reason why they make us start pledging at such a young age is so that we don't, someday, pledge allegiance to another banner as we grow older and realize that the state is not right. They make us recite them before we even understand what they mean.

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

That was the original pledge of allegiance written in 1892. Now, here's the 1954 version:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Before, you were just pledging allegiance to an idea. Now, you're pledging allegiance to a body.

I don't care about some dude thats been dead for hundreds of years. Patriotism is one of the greatest tricks played on humanity.

Life's too short and too important to me to waste my time on something as futile as that. Now if you will excuse me, I'm off to draw stuffs and play GTA and jack some foo's!

That "dude" died so you could live free without the oppression of tyranny. People nowadays mistake having fun and being completely care free as being free, when in reality they are just a bunch of mentally castrated cattle being led to the slaughter. Take fluoridation for instance, here we have a nuclear waste product that in studies increases infant death and bone fractures, being sold to the public as one of the greatest medical advancements of the 20th century. When in reality the owners of the nuclear plants simply didn't want to pay to have it disposed of correctly so they marketed it as the next big thing in dental health and started mass medicating the public with it. I look around in astonishment at my fellow Americans, drifting through their daily lives, unaware that WW3 is on their doorstep. The United States in recent months have been trying to provoke Pakistan into war, our military is dead set to have it out with these people. Meanwhile China is telling us that any attack on Pakistan will be considered an attack on China itself. Do I need to elaborate on the gravity of that statement? How's nuclear war sound? Does it bother you that for the last few years former NSA and CIA have been building fallout bunkers at a record rate?

Patriotism is the ultimate form of pathos. It even surpasses your crying mother and the death of innocent children.

When I kiss the flag of the United States of America, I am actually kissing every crackpot policy that that flag has ever put forth. The reason why they make us start pledging at such a young age is so that we don't, someday, pledge allegiance to another banner as we grow older and realize that the state is not right. They make us recite them before we even understand what they mean.

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

That was the original pledge of allegiance written in 1892. Now, here's the 1954 version:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Before, you were just pledging allegiance to an idea. Now, you're pledging allegiance to a body.

Patriotism isn't a devotion to your government, it is a devotion the the welfare of your fellow citizen. Tell me that is wrong.

I have a real problem with defeatists, they never think they have any sway in the world, but I'm dead sure that if those same defeatists collectively stood up for their ideals we would have true liberty and true prosperity in this world.

Patriotism is a way to blind you from humanity and conform to the ways of the shady ass government. It's an illusion. There is no "America". It's just a piece of land like every other piece of land with people like every other person.

I'm not proud to be an American. I'm proud to be a human.

Nothing good comes from patriotism. You just get a bunch of idiots crying for lower taxes, health care and more dead people we call terrorists drug through the street that we trained ourselves 20 years prior.

Oh, and not to mention it causes nothing but blood lust and rage and hate towards those who do not salute that stupid fucking flag. Fuck America and all those stupid ass systems of hypocrisy that brain wash the innocent into strapping AK-47's to "protect" the land.

I don't want to be affiliated with the centuries of blood shed and fowl play that is a grand testimony to The United States of America.

@Az
They TRY to make you pledge allegiance. You don't have to. But they will make you feel like you do. I have never ever said the pledge of allegiance in my entire life. Nor have I ever saluted the flag. And I've certainly been given a mouth full by everyone for it. People would try and grab me and make me salute. Wtf is that?

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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox

Patriotism isn't nationalism. Our forefathers were a victim of the times, it was ok to own slaves and it was ok to womanize back then. Does it make them stupid for conforming to the standards of their day? Their ideas of liberty are what is most important. Have you read the constitution? Despite what you have to say about their practices, they were the leading thinkers of their times.

The point is that you should be proud to be an American, we may not have a peaceful history for it is a history filled with the blood of patriots and tyrants, but we do have one thing, and that is freedom.

Masonic beliefs have been manipulated through the years, it started out as a libertarian group and ended as a satanic cult morphed by the most recent masonic literature.

I care about people. I love living in such a beautiful place. But I will not let myself be associated with an institution that enslaved a race, brought them over in the bottom of ships and then proceeded to systematically annihilate the indigenous population of the land. Then, once established, proceeded to manipulate governments around the world by assassinating whomever they pleased in places like South America just to suite their own desires. Fuck that.

You tell people you're a proud American, you completely condone and support the cut throat tactics of this blood stained nation.

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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox

Every country ever founded has had flaws, but none have our constitution. Egyptians enslaved the jews, are the Egyptians supposed to be ashamed of their heritage because of that? By your standard everyone should hate their heritage. Thats exactly what the new world order wants. They want everyone to give up their sovereignty in the name of coming together under one corrupt government without any elected officials. They hate America, England, France, Spain, Germany, and any other country that gives their people any sort of political power. In effect they love China. So be proud of your country or lose it. If you think you can escape by moving to another country, think again. Cause the ones they don't control are always the first on the chopping block.

1. The IRS was supposed to be a temporary agency created during War time. The reason it still exists, is because people within the government love getting money before doing their damn jobs. It hemorrhages billions of dollars, just to keep the service operating. If it actually serves a roll these days, then fine, create a new agency that doesn't have an unconstitutional amount of power.

Collecting taxes costs money, that's the sad truth. Without a government agency with the necessary power, dishonest people can easily leave their taxes unpaid.

2.I don't care what oil companies want, they get enough out of us already. Lobbyists hinder political process, and are one of the reasons that I don't vote. There is always a hidden agenda for every candidate (x company offered them y amount of dollars to do z). Few to none of their campaign promises will be met, be it directly their fault, or the system's.

The oil industry does give people jobs. Therefore it's only rational to hear what they have to say as well. Of course, a strong-minded politician would make his choice based on that information (and the opposing points) by himself. I don't have enough knowledge of US internal politics to say anything, but around here people overestimate the power of lobbyists.

Well, compared to some EU countries, US has a stricter policy. Not all countries in the world require the immigrant to have a job (/other alternative qualifications) before allowing permanent residency.

5. I would much rather pay slightly higher taxes, if it meant my Health Insurance was covered by my country. Health care is way too damn expensive here.

The problem however is, that we're not talking about slightly higher taxes. If some operation costs $10,000, it still costs the same even if government paid for it. The taxes would need to be raised a lot to fund a health care system.

Here in Finland the health care is mostly publicly funded -- and the taxes we pay are almost double that in USA.

When speculation is used by enormous hedge funds to trade currencies they can effectively ruin a currency and in effect rob the people who hold the currency. This kind of currency speculation has often been used for economic warfare to create revolutions in countries with unstable economies. These hedge funds usually have the problem of an uncooperative puppet dictator in said country and need to create a revolution so as to have him thrown out by the people. It is often said that we are 9 meals away from revolution, so by ruining the currency of a country they can effectively starve the people into revolt. Then when the dust clears the same individuals who ruined the economy fund the campaign of the next puppet dictator.

In the past 100 years, governments have ruined more currencies with their idiotic currency politics than hedge funds have. Devaluation was a common monetary policy tool.

The "problem" with currency trade is that it can not be controlled without strongly hindering people's freedom. Unlike stock trade, trading currency does not require a centralized market. If I had 10,000€ (or any arbitrary amount of euros) and someone else had the equivalent amount of dollars, we could just swap these with no middlemen. Electronic stock trade on the other hand always requires a middleman. Even back at the days of paper stocks, a central authority was required to monitor stock trading to keep it within the confines of law. Currency requires no such special monitoring as forged currency is monitored anyways.

Hedge funds are just risk players. Big ones can make big moves when the situation is right. They can't "ruin a currency" the economic situation favors. They're not that big players. Perhaps most famous example is George Soros' triumph over Bank of England.

I mean sure, today's world is not perfect. We've come a long way from the ultraliberalism of the 19th century. I'd personally prefer a laissez-faire world, but it is not politically feasible.

Remember the bailouts? Under the freedom of info act some concerned individuals obtained the information on where all our money went in the bailout, turns out that trillions went to foreign banks.

That's because the banking sector is global. The bailout saved some US banks by paying their debts. Some of those debts naturally were to foreign banks. Just as some foreign banks that received a bailout in Europe had debt to US banks.

I'm not ashamed to be an American; I'm just ashamed to share the same land with fucking ass-hats.

I don't feel even a semblance of patriotism on the 4th of July and I don't think I ever have. Sure, there is probably a diehard patriot out there who dons 18th century attire and sings the Star Spangled Banner every time a mortar goes off. He probably burnishes a bayonet too just for the hell of it.

I could draw comparisons between America and Jonestown, but I won't because Jonestown was a beast of it's own nature. All I will say is that I hope people can actually look at the outside world, do some fucking research, and realize that there are better options than living in America. I'd rather move to the Baltic states and take everyone I ever loved with me.

In the past 100 years, governments have ruined more currencies with their idiotic currency politics than hedge funds have. Devaluation was a common monetary policy tool.

The "problem" with currency trade is that it can not be controlled without strongly hindering people's freedom. Unlike stock trade, trading currency does not require a centralized market. If I had 10,000€ (or any arbitrary amount of euros) and someone else had the equivalent amount of dollars, we could just swap these with no middlemen. Electronic stock trade on the other hand always requires a middleman. Even back at the days of paper stocks, a central authority was required to monitor stock trading to keep it within the confines of law. Currency requires no such special monitoring as forged currency is monitored anyways.

Hedge funds are just risk players. Big ones can make big moves when the situation is right. They can't "ruin a currency" the economic situation favors. They're not that big players. Perhaps most famous example is George Soros' triumph over Bank of England.

I mean sure, today's world is not perfect. We've come a long way from the ultraliberalism of the 19th century. I'd personally prefer a laissez-faire world, but it is not politically feasible.

What I'm most concerned about is those god damn speculators raising the price of my fucking gas. At least limit speculation in terms of large commodities. The little guys get hurt when speculators drive up commodities, it increases the cost of living which is already much too high. Not just in America but everywhere else too.

That's because the banking sector is global. The bailout saved some US banks by paying their debts. Some of those debts naturally were to foreign banks. Just as some foreign banks that received a bailout in Europe had debt to US banks.

So you are saying that it is the American peoples responsibility to pay off bankers whose fraudulent policies bankrupted them? What happened to the free market? This business of too big to fail is dirty and should not be allowed to flourish. The bailout bill had over 1400 pages and was introduced into congress the day before they were to vote on it. They were told separately that if they didn't vote the bill through there would be martial law in America. What kind of bullshit is that? People need to get angry when this sort of shit happens. I mean we are supposed to have a "laissez-faire" market, that is one of the founding principles of this country. It just makes me sick every time I think about it.

I don't feel even a semblance of patriotism on the 4th of July and I don't think I ever have. Sure, there is probably a diehard patriot out there who dons 18th century attire and sings the Star Spangled Banner every time a mortar goes off. He probably burnishes a bayonet too just for the hell of it.

Patriot is derived from patriota meaning countrymen. It means having loyalty to ones people. If you care about your people then it is your duty to make sure they are free of tyranny by doing research, making informed votes, and protesting what you see as a breach of the constitution. If people dont do this they are bound to be castrated, pushed around, and eventually herded into deat.. I mean FEMA camps .

Oh you mean those nice "community centers" with play grounds for children, and barbed wire and wardens? I can't wait.

It'll be so wonderful not having to do anything but watch television all day eat GMO foods and drink the lithium and fluoride tap water. I don't even have to burden my family when I die because they have a nice plastic casket all lined up for me. I hope they have more mercury infused vaccines so I don't get sick. I'm sure the fluoride wont penetrate the blood-brain barrier of my baby and make him retarded.

What I'm most concerned about is those god damn speculators raising the price of my fucking gas. At least limit speculation in terms of large commodities. The little guys get hurt when speculators drive up commodities, it increases the cost of living which is already much too high. Not just in America but everywhere else too.

Well, I would disagree that it is speculators increasing the price of oil. It's mostly demand. BRIC-countries and other 3rd world countries are consuming increasing amounts of oil for their demands. The increasing standard of living results in increased demand of oil (both for the transportation of people and goods).

Besides, gas here costs $8 a gallon (~1,50€ a liter). I still get stuck in traffic jams. No-one is even talking about the price of gas because it's been priced like this for several years now.

Additionally, speculators have little to no say in oil prices. OPEC has the final say. Recently Middle Eastern countries slightly cut the amount of oil they produce basically to deliberately increase the price (a trick they do often). Those countries live on oil, so while this is bad news for oil importers (like USA), it is perfectly rational -- even for the little guys -- in the exporting countries. That's the problem of individual sovereign states -- they act according to their own interests.

So you are saying that it is the American peoples responsibility to pay off bankers whose fraudulent policies bankrupted them? What happened to the free market? This business of too big to fail is dirty and should not be allowed to flourish. The bailout bill had over 1400 pages and was introduced into congress the day before they were to vote on it. They were told separately that if they didn't vote the bill through there would be martial law in America. What kind of bullshit is that? People need to get angry when this sort of shit happens. I mean we are supposed to have a "laissez-faire" market, that is one of the founding principles of this country. It just makes me sick every time I think about it.

The need for the bailout was the result of a failure on the US market regulators. No-one knew the big picture, which resulted in the subprime mortgage crisis. Party A sold a mortgage, sold it onwards to party B, who passed it to C who then sold it to D and so onwards until it reached party Z. Z had no way of knowing what the hell A and the person who took the mortgage had agreed on, because his deal was with Y. In situations like these, the only way to control it is public authority. While fraudulent bankers do exist, it was rational and perfectly logical decisions that had no issues on small scale that resulted into all this

I totally agree that on a fundamental level bailouts are bad. However, the entire modern civilization has been built on banks, which were a major component to the industrial revolution. No bailout to the banks would've killed basically every single one of them. That would've more than probably resulted in the death of the financial system, and alongside it, the entire global economy.

While the bailout was a bad thing and it definitely isn't the people of USA that should pay the price, the other option was not available, and would've been far more costly.

A total free market is impossible as long as governments and nations exist, because the interference makes the market imperfect. Since the existence of governments is a necessity, this leads to the conclusion that the free market needs some limitations. While banks shouldn't be totally limited (they result in good things as well), some control by government is required to avoid a situation like this ever occurring again.

That would've more than probably resulted in the death of the financial system, and alongside it, the entire global economy.

Good, if the system doesn't work then it deserves to die, by continually printing more money we are only digging our grave deeper. Better to have the system die on our terms then theirs. The last act of any standing government is to rob it's treasury. When we lose our standing as the world reserve currency that is exactly what is gonna happen. So we need to preemptively cut their resources by closing down the fed and create a gold or silver backed currency. Fiat currency always fails, history has shown that time and time again. Troubled times are ahead, but I'd rather have to grow my own garden and hunt for food than be locked up in some futuristic nanny state prison city.

Id advise anyone to put some money into silver and gold. There is a reason all these Cash4Gold sites and commercials have been popping up over the years, they realize how worthless the dollar is becoming so they're buying up all the gold.

That would've more than probably resulted in the death of the financial system, and alongside it, the entire global economy.

Good, if the system doesn't work then it deserves to die, by continually printing more money we are only digging our grave deeper. Better to have the system die on our terms then theirs. The last act of any standing government is to rob it's treasury. When we lose our standing as the world reserve currency that is exactly what is gonna happen. So we need to preemptively cut their resources by closing down the fed and create a gold or silver backed currency. Fiat currency always fails, history has shown that time and time again. Troubled times are ahead, but I'd rather have to grow my own garden and hunt for food than be locked up in some futuristic nanny state prison city.

If the financial system died, that would make the Vandals' ransacking of Rome a nice walk in the park. It would be anarchy, not anything according to anyones terms. Our entire civilization would be at peril. More than likely, this scenario would result in a totalitarian nanny state, not the other way around.

The system works, but it is sometimes faced with a shock because of retarded politics. With this type of options (anarchy vs. slowly developing the current system) I'd personally choose the latter any day.

Fiat as it is today has not been tried at this scale before. The Chinese currency was handled horribly (and the 18th/19th century versions were small scale). It's totally plausible that it doesn't fail (the Bretton Woods on the other hand was doomed to fail) within the near future.

However, there aren't really any good alternatives. The problem with any metal currency is that there is too little of any given metal. The finite supply inevitably results in a situation where a metal coin is worth more as the metal than the coin itself. And on the other hand a system where the money is made out of silver, but the value of that silver bears little to no relationship to its face value has all the bad sides of a fiat currency but none of its good sides. Besides, silver and gold have real uses in electronics and whatnot these days.

PS:

I would advise anyone not to buy gold. Gold is currently facing a huge bubble. The people that made money with it have sold their gold already. Right now it's a bear market.

If the financial system died, that would make the Vandals' ransacking of Rome a nice walk in the park. It would be anarchy, not anything according to anyones terms. Our entire civilization would be at peril. More than likely, this scenario would result in a totalitarian nanny state, not the other way around.

The system works, but it is sometimes faced with a shock because of retarded politics. With this type of options (anarchy vs. slowly developing the current system) I'd personally choose the latter any day.

Fiat as it is today has not been tried at this scale before. The Chinese currency was handled horribly (and the 18th/19th century versions were small scale). It's totally plausible that it doesn't fail (the Bretton Woods on the other hand was doomed to fail) within the near future.

However, there aren't really any good alternatives. The problem with any metal currency is that there is too little of any given metal. The finite supply inevitably results in a situation where a metal coin is worth more as the metal than the coin itself. And on the other hand a system where the money is made out of silver, but the value of that silver bears little to no relationship to its face value has all the bad sides of a fiat currency but none of its good sides. Besides, silver and gold have real uses in electronics and whatnot these days.

PS:

I would advise anyone not to buy gold. Gold is currently facing a huge bubble. The people that made money with it have sold their gold already. Right now it's a bear market.

Corporatism is a disease that is evident in our government, and there is no way in hell they are just gonna hand it back to us. When we try to take it back they are gonna do everything in their power to hold on to it, they will threaten us with economic collapse and martial law. There is no reasoning with these corporate tyrants, they have a plan to enslave the world and kill billions of people through war, biological attacks, and soft kill tactics so that they and their progeny can inherit the fruits of the earth and live in a scientific paradise. What do you think they are developing in all those top secret military bases and why have we not seen a shred of it leak into the private sector? They are waiting till we are all dead.