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Map suggestion

So i just saw this as comment and thought it was perfect so i made it into thread.
credit to goes to some random guy
it doesnt matter what the map looks like, it's what on it.

a big open land is boring. you need lodes of aspects. for example but not limited too:

obsticals - things that stand out in open zones like tree's or rocks so fighting near can disrupt ranged classes and level playing feild at times. they can be used for all sorts and levels of how much they are around can really chanage a battle. compare fighting in lumber camp tree's to rocks in TR feilds to the open bit in TR feilds.

bottle neck - open end and losing end can really slow down attackers and be the place of huge battles. it makes aoe classes more potent and really challanges players with choices of running it or not. there normally great for the defending side (open end) while attackers struggle to get past the thinnest part.

one way paths - this can be as simple as a drop way or a wall you can only jump over one side. this is great way to give players choices of how to attack and move around area's. this is rarest seen in moors yet can be crucial to FPS games to break a good turtling defensive team. this does work well in MMO's though and should be seen more of to have serious choices about your paths, and not always breaking your legs when jumping down.

tunnles / 2 way paths - very linier paths that only allow players to go 2 ways in a tightish gap. the bit between lug and grams is an example of this very loosly. it can be good, but should be one of the least used as play can turn very ping pong if the sides are balanced too fairly. this works well with one way paths going into it.

blind corners - keeps do this a lot. anything could be around the corner. it's kinda broke because we can select people around them, but it still causes issues to ranged classes and adds some serious depth in fighting and allows for some great counter attacks.

safe zones - there are a few types of, completely safe (like GY's), camps/keeps that shelter you less and places that don't hold NPC's but gives the defending player an advantage of routes (use of one way paths). lotro has this a little, but NPC's are the weakest they've even been and storming a keep is easier than ever, especially for freeps. these NEED to be far apart, other wise people will hop to quickly between them and hug too much. some othe elements lotro arn't using are healing/buffs in certain area's (we kinda have them, but not enough and all are tied next to NPC's). this could be as simple as having the outposts buff just within certain area's to have an advantage over, not just a general "all the map" buff.

landscape hazards - water, mobs that attack both sides and cliffs is what lotro mainly uses. it lets you have open area's but paths imbetween the obsticals. if you want to go faster but more dangerous, you can. it allows for some depth and is one of the best punishments that can be used if you don't like your players running away from each other. a zigzag path up a mountin gives a much higher chance that defenders can push back than just a straight path backwards. but at the same time, we don't have fall damage. so it would be interesting to see more of these used around the place.

clear feilds - not even hills tbh. nothing to hide behind and nothing to use. just man to man fights here. we have some nice ones tbh, can't complain and no need to explain.

high ways - we know where they are in lotro, but there a big part of the PvP games. having a fast track to certain places is nice. but I've seen this done better. for example "paths" buff out of combat players with +20% riding and run speed. it instantly makes them super useful, but prone to attacks... with the vast distance some creeps/freeps travel for fights, this can make one of the worst bits about moors (travling) not so boring. having more little skirmishes and putting fear into players using the main roads or not.

cross raods - it sounds stupid, but busy cross roads can make battles. tol is just one big cross road tbh. imagen removing the keep there and just having clear roads? the battles you would get there would be epic! lotro has removed most of them and most people smarter to not using main paths. but adding this with blind corners and hazrds off the road, you can get some surprising large battles that can end quickly.

take the time and expand your map and put in what you want from each area and how you would segment them. thats the real challange of map making, not just an overhead picture, that almost explains nothing...

So i just saw this as comment and thought it was perfect so i made it into thread.
credit to goes to some random guy

lol thx XD

i feel honored. better than rep by far!

tbh though, yoou've just made me realise my own bad grammer and spelling, but I hope you get the idea.

I was curious of how you would do it tbh. no map is wrong, but they can be badly balanced and you could discuss that till the cows come home. lotro world makers clearly went with the easier option and made the map more open and left the confined places in keeps and some other places. but I would love it to be updated. the world makers on lotro are great and I'm sure they have some idea's too.

most of these notes were basically stolen from valve commentry box things. when listening to TF2/portal you get a real sense they test there maps more than anything. just running round you get a feel of how much thought went into it. but the very same applys whether it's a FPS game or MMO. we could lotro on payload and get as much as deep game play as TF2 players do. if you played TF2 on ettenmoors... it'd be a #### game...

I did a suggestion for a map ages ago. so I'll post it sometime after I update it for you so you get an idea. but really. I think everyone has there own idea of what they like and dis-like on the map. but verity is key here. each zone should feel differant. we have it already, but I would like it to feel... more differant...

tbh though, yoou've just made me realise my own bad grammer and spelling, but I hope you get the idea.

I was curious of how you would do it tbh. no map is wrong, but they can be badly balanced and you could discuss that till the cows come home. lotro world makers clearly went with the easier option and made the map more open and left the confined places in keeps and some other places. but I would love it to be updated. the world makers on lotro are great and I'm sure they have some idea's too.

most of these notes were basically stolen from valve commentry box things. when listening to TF2/portal you get a real sense they test there maps more than anything. just running round you get a feel of how much thought went into it. but the very same applys whether it's a FPS game or MMO. we could lotro on payload and get as much as deep game play as TF2 players do. if you played TF2 on ettenmoors... it'd be a #### game...

I did a suggestion for a map ages ago. so I'll post it sometime after I update it for you so you get an idea. but really. I think everyone has there own idea of what they like and dis-like on the map. but verity is key here. each zone should feel differant. we have it already, but I would like it to feel... more differant...

I see well yes i really liked it and i have made some other posts about more natural features put into place but i really liked the idea of roads and speed buff that sounded awesome!

Another random think i would love is on halloween night all creeps are allowed to travel out of the moors and kill anything. Just creeps but the freep people could still fight and such but the creeps wouldnt be able to get imfamy or comms it would be just for fun. Maybe even all freeps buffed to 85 or something idk

I found my old pics, but I wasn't so chuffed. so I'm re doing them. check out the thread

it'll take some time doing all of them, but hopefully you can see grams and understand what I mean. just removing some of the openness where it's not needed and adding more choice of paths. but ofc, I'm going to leave whole sections almost unchanged.

I found my old pics, but I wasn't so chuffed. so I'm re doing them. check out the thread

it'll take some time doing all of them, but hopefully you can see grams and understand what I mean. just removing some of the openness where it's not needed and adding more choice of paths. but ofc, I'm going to leave whole sections almost unchanged.

First put this is the pvmp forums so those people can see it most of them dont look in player suggestions so if you want social support i would put it there as well

that counts as cross posting, a shame I know, but it might get both deleted then. hopefully this thread is advertisment for it :P

Second i noticed npcs and im not sure i like npcs...if moors was properly balanced im thinking there should be no such thing as npcs? thoughts?

I understand a lot. NPC's should be used less than we've seen in the past.

pretty much the only NPC's I'll keep in are core NPC's in defending keeps and SOME banners/OP's. remember, most banners will be defended by mobs from neither side. most of them will be almost solo'able OP's justfor the section so people will run to keep an eye on to make sure it's not being taken or to keep it up to date.

I wouldn't want to remove any quest creatures too. but on the map I've done, I have removed a few NPC's and sectioned them up better. the roaming trolls are removed (no need tbh). the section just below DG is also removed, a lot of NPC's including the bull things. and being the creep side it should be advantagous to creeps to play in, so all the NPC's there are creeps, so there is no freep NPC's at all! the same will replicate on the freeps side.

the forest will be more like a maze. many NPC's will be removed there. east isen will hold big guys like trolls, drakes and eagles. west isen will be only cave claws and a few mutual trolls. tol has norbogs ofc, banners on bridges added back in as OP's for the area and to show who owns the main roads that runs though tol. TR will be very sparce, TR will have many bears removed and no more sickle flys randomly in places. lug on the other side will be like tr. but more hills than before. not many NPC's roaming around at all, few wargs.

I will post the location of quest items when the map is complete.

so you should see a dramatic decrease in NPC's if you follow the main paths. there just in main places like OP towards, some banners and keeps. if there are any NPC's that feel useless, expect me to remove them. forest section for example. wolfs will be a banner guard now for example tree's

Choke points, high areas... more obstacles, all nullified by all of the spam-tracking.

Tracking needs to be reduced a TON! No matter what you build into the map it won't matter if you can't have the element of surprise on your enemy. Real, legit flanks rarely happen anymore because everyone knows where the other side is.

Relegate tracking to one class on each side with a longer CD. Also, ditch creep maps, talk about unbalanced, the ability to be anywhere on the map in 45s, unreasonable. I used to see the need, but with all the speed buffs creepside has now......

I'm prety sure that i have seen all the listed features above already implemented in the game.

yes, but not enough in some area's. some area's are extremely open, yet because players rarely go there, action is terrible and you could be close to another player, but because there are no major cross roads you could miss them completely.

NPC's are very random too. I've consolidated many into banners so there is a constant reason to quickly flip these instead of just quests. banner can be completed 1 man, 2 at least. OP's are kept in the most unplayed area's to make sure players pop by, and those wondering for a good 1v1 or a little zerg will know to check in those doors once and a while.

Originally Posted by Irin19

Choke points, high areas... more obstacles, all nullified by all of the spam-tracking.

not completely.

obsticals can still save you from ranged attacks. big rocks in moors are still used to surprise attack and hide whole raids at times. attacking a single creep, going over/round a clind corner and getting counter attacked is great map mechanics. you get this a lot around TR and it's large rocks and is the one the area's that I would say needs the least work.

more obsticals is good too. the tree's in the forest make for much more movement demanding fights.

choke points too. a fight in TR feilds, players can run away in all directions. fighting in more of a linor path forced fight or flight reactions and you should only be able to retreat so much before you hit a wall or are hugging NPC's. choke points currently in game are only really in keeps and DoF. but again, around TR has a few when you fight behind it. adding in more mountins, hills and tree lines I hope to replicate this a few more times around the map when appropriate. one of those being zones not often viseted, those should be very ping pong maps because the fights shouldn't last that long. while oftenly fought places like tr/grams-lug should be open to differant pathways for surprise attacks and retreating in any direction with a reward at each way.