Building Bridges Between Christians and Muslims: A Case Study

Meanwhile, Bishop Robert McManus of Worcester has not even had the courtesy to respond to my requests for a meeting. Nor has any diocesan official. Must not offend the friends of jihad terrorists.

After my appearance was canceled, Amjad Bahnassi, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Worcester, was conciliatory: “I doubt there was any foul play or bad intentions by the Diocese. We have great relations between the two faiths.”

“No hard feelings”? No “foul play or bad intentions”? Yes, we assassinated this man’s character, smeared and defamed him, and succeeded in strong-arming Bishop McManus into canceling his appearance. And hey, bishop, we don’t hold a grudge!

This isn’t about me. Robert Spencer will eventually go away, whatever happens. Do Bishop Robert McManus and the Roman Catholic Church (as well as the mainstream media) think that when I go away, their troubles will be over?

I was not looking for a problem. The bishop felt that by disinviting him we would be avoiding a problem in casting a bad light on Christian-Islamic relations. Why risk that?

Why indeed? But what about the Muslims who cast a bad light on Christian-Islamic relations by persecuting Christians in Egypt, Nigeria, Iraq, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, and elsewhere? Is anyone allowed to speak up for those Christians and explore the ideological root causes of why they’re being persecuted, or would that upset the shallow and insincere friendships you have with Muslims stateside?

Any genuine dialogue, and any healthy relationship, proceeds on the basis of honesty. Pretending that Islamic texts do not say what they say about Christians, and that Muslims do not act upon those texts to persecute Christians, will do nothing to help those Christians who are under threat. Only by confronting honestly the source of the problem can we ever hope to solve it.

48 Comments, 28 Threads

1.
David W

It is a shame that Christian leaders are afraid of letting their own people read the words of the “prophet”. Then they would know that islam basically negates all of Christianity (Jesus was not divine, there is no such thing as the Trinity). That islam accuses Christians of perverting and corrupting the word of God, that mohammed’s words are the words of the true god (and as children of the book, as mohammed calls us, we can either convert to islam, pay the jizzya, or we can fight (and die)).

Christians who believe that the islamic religion is just an extension of Christianity and that we worship the same God are very very mistaken. There are good people who happen to be muslim (I have worked with them). No good muslim is a good person though.

When was the last time ANY Western “official” ever actually said: “Read the Qur’an!” or advised anyone to entlighten themselves to help expose it’s evil?

NEVER, that’s when! In stead, they all avoid it, and pretend it’s exactly like the Bibles, and that we all follow the same Abrahamic monotheistic god.

I find it incredible that, when any freedom scholar such as Robert Spencer says:
“The Qur’an says the muslims must wage war upon all the non-moslems in the world, and that it’s their holy right and duty to extort, enslave, and murder us all for the “crime” of not being muslims!”

… everyone seems quite comfortable in saying:

“No it doesn’t! No it doesn’t!”

… as if they were all islamic scholars themselves!

This is LYING – presenting their subjective, entirely fact-free opinions as if they were facts, in public! And lying is the most basic form of theft – it’s the theft of the Truth!

These people are in automatic denial of islam’s inherent evil, BECAUSE they already know of it, just from reading the endless news reports of islamic intolerance and aggression every day in the media!

It’s like we were assigned a book report in class. those that actually read the book, make some statements about it. Then suddenly, those who didn’t bother to read it, pipe up and declare the assertions of those who quote it chapter and verse, to be “wrong” about it all!

It’s simply incredible to me, that in a society which supposedly values evidence research and science, we so-immediately revert to “beliefs” and superstitious declaratiopns of politically-correct (factually incorrect) “faith” when confronted by criminal extortion!

It reminds me of that old Monty Python sketch, “The Piranha Brothers!”

Maybe it’s really about the Stockholm Syndrome induced by these “Muhammad Brothers!”

Liberals KNOW islam is evil and the biggest threat out there, which is WHY they so automatically get behind it, and then out in front of it, to “defend” it from those of us who actuallyknow about it, and are willing to risk our lives to expose it for the benefit of those who would betray us to these criminals!

Mr. Spencer, I believe that you might be approaching this in a way that is sub-optimal. You really ought to speak to your own pastor and perhaps your bishop to carry you through the seculars in the diocese of Worcester who may not fully understand the issues and are attempting to protect the bishop in a manner that actually hurts the Church. A bishop, they’d put through. They have to in a practical sense, because no matter what they do, that bishop is going to be around the USCCB and meet with their boss no matter what. That it also is the right thing to do is a happy coincidence.

All the sins of the sons of the West against the sons of the East in the Church are behind us, but only up to the point of the papal apology issued by Pope John Paul II. What the Worcester people are doing right now isn’t covered.

If you haven’t read it recently, go take a look at Orientalium Ecclesiarium. The Melkites, of whom you are a part, are on the front lines of this challenge to the Church. There are bigger issues at stake than just Catholic/Islam relations. Catholic/Catholic inter-rite relations are impacted as well. I do not think that we’re ever going to go back to the bad old days but for all our sakes, please do not accept being pushed to the back of the bus. It permits an attitude that non-Roman rite Catholics remain 2nd class Catholics. That should have never happened and certainly been ended by Orientalium Ecclesiarium in 1964.

I’m sorry, what you’ve presented here seems like a lot of gobbledygook to the “uninitiated.” Why should Mr. Spencer approach Bishop McManus through his Bishop or pastor rather than directly as he’s done? I do not see what (as you describe them) “Catholic/Catholic inter-rite” relations have to do with this moral issue. Spencer was invited to speak and then dis-invited largely because of pressure from Islamic supremacists and local media. That is the issue here, not inter-Catholic relations over ritual and ceremony.

Mr. Spencer is a Melkite according to his Wikipedia page, an arab Catholic that belongs to the Antiochian rite that firmly split into Catholic and Orthodox parties with the 1700s controversy over Cyril VI. The importance of this ancient history in this context is that Mr. Spencer’s part of the Catholic Church has its own hierarchy up to the level of Primate (currently Gregory III Laham). The relevant history of the Church back in those days and until quite recently (in historic terms) was one of a battle between those who thought that the other rites should subordinate themselves to the Roman rite (what most american Catholics are familiar with) and those who held firm to the ancient practices and rituals. This has a sad American chapter where approximately 2 million eastern catholics, mostly Ruthenians, went into schism over a bald faced denial of their rights by the American hierarchy at the time (turn of the century).

The current state of affairs is that the latinizers are in full retreat. The letter I referred to above, Orientalium Ecclesiarium makes it clear that east shall be east and west shall be west and both shall be equal in dignity and honor. John Paul II made a fairly famous apology over the sins that the sons of the West committed against the sons of the East in May of 2001. Most people take that to mean the sack of Constantinople but the Church was quite wise to make it very generic.

There is still a lot of cleanup to do over past issues. As the (vastly) smaller party, it is we easterners who tend to bring up the issues. So Mr. Spencer’s disinvitation and shabby treatment (no meetings to clear his reputation from slander) can be seen as impacting on all this old history within the Church as well as the more obvious issues with Islam written above.

Mr. Spencer’s pastor might or might not be able to get the proper doors opened to sort through this to identify the real story but his bishop absolutely can. Depending on a lot of issues that I neither know or have any business knowing, he will do what he feels best shepherds his flock, some of whom have relatives under direct threat back in the middle east. But at the very least, this is an alternate road that should be tried, if only for the reason that it reminds people that respect is not only due to middle eastern muslims and their sensitivities, but middle eastern christians who have their own.

Mr. Spencer engages in clear, simple and acceptable acts: He writes books about Islam; he translates Islamic texts; he analyzes Islam’s threat to the West; and he warns us of impending and actual danger. That’s a great deal. Why are you trying to involve him in some gobbleygook mission which has no real bearing on his public activities? Well, I suppose, the answer is obvious: You wish to find a way to stop him.

I have a little experience in actually dealing with a large Catholic diocese from the perspective of a member of a small eastern Catholic eparchy. Mr. Spencer, from a Catholic perspective, is engaging in a vocation, one that is no doubt informed by his background. The bishop of Worcester may benefit from hearing that but like most bishops he is surrounded by a wall of laity that protects his own vocation from a flood of distractions. That can get in the way. A fellow bishop can cut through the red tape. The number of US Melkites is so small that it is likely that talking to him is considerably easier.

This is a feature of the Catholic Church that is little known and understood in the US, though it has been around for centuries. To bypass his rights and give up a possible avenue of appeal seems to be your advice, not mine.

TMLutas, I for one am very glad to hear your insights. I agree that the East-West thing is VERY relevant, since so many of the Eastern rites Catholics do, as you pointed out, have relatives under very direct and dire threat in the Middle East at this moment!

Gutless liberal dhimmis submitting to Islamic blasphemy laws again. Robert Spencer knows more about Islam than most Muslims do and it is important that he be allowed to speak, as Muslims are allowed to use the strategy of decit (Taqiyya) in dealing with infidels, meaning you can never trust what a Muslims says about Islam, Muhammad, or Jihad.

I wonder Coast if you also feel that the Crusades were nasty, unprovoked invasions of islamic lands with barbarous acts solely upon the part of the Christians, rather than counter-attacks following hundreds of years of islamic rape, murder and other terror attacks and invasions?

How else can he respond to such “constructive dialogues” as these: “Raymond Delisle, spokesman for the Diocese of Worcester, promptly gave this statement to the Globe: Although the intention of the conference organizers was to have a presenter on Islam from a Catholic’s perspective, we are asking Robert Spencer to not come to the Worcester Catholic Men’s Conference given that his presence is being seen as harmful to Catholic–Islamic relations both locally and nationally.”

“Is being seen” – guilty until never proven innocent!

This spokesweasel condemns the man based in anecdotal slanders of the criminals themselves! He goes along with the false notion that it should be illegal to accuse criminals (moslems) of their crimes, if doing so might hurt their feelings, and so “make” them commit even more crimes! Is there really a right to not be offended by the often-painful truth?!

“Meanwhile, Bishop Robert McManus of Worcester has not even had the courtesy to respond to (Robert spencer’s) requests for a meeting. Nor has any diocesan official.”

AND:

“Msgr. Thomas Sullivan, lead organizer of the conference, explained: “I was not looking for a problem. The bishop felt that by disinviting him we would be avoiding a problem in casting a bad light on Christian-Islamic relations. Why risk that?”

Robert Spencer rightly assesses and accuses islam of being nothing more than an ancient ongoing extortion-racket CRIME-syndicate, posing as a religion, and the churche’s risk-avoidance stance proves this. The only “religious” part in islam, is where they say:

Did Jesus or his Apostles create a bridge to the Pharisees or the Sanhedrin? I don’t think so. Truth is truth, and if others refuse to see it because of obligatory blindness, we shouldn’t throw pearls to the swine.

I would say that Jesus offered a bridge to the Pharisees or to the Sanhedrin members. Now, as then, the Truth is there, the Messiah is present. Some accept the offer and follow, others refuse to follow.

Good ancestry convert to Christian. You did good work. Now maybe it is time to go to North Korea and convert the North Koreans to Jesus before they get too frisky with their nukeshttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-test.html?_r=0
While your there I bath your wife at Atlas Shrug with Divine love apt on back type of good massage as she attempte to convert all of Europe to Christian that honor the Jew that I say in her blog today; European Union Unfund Holocaust denying Palestinian News Service
This is tough job she have and I do not want her to get burn out and look like old hag and Divine love heal her and keep her beauty for years to come her way I pray

This is why I find this idea of ‘interfaith alliances’ nothing but a front for some roads leading down a path to hell. Because it has been my experience these alliances have nothing to do with the eternal or spiritual and everything to do with the politic. And that politics always leans left. And it is just another way to subvert both our faith and America in the process.

It should be obvious to any Christian worth his salt where we stand today in the timeline of human history, especially in America:

◄ 2 Timothy 4:3 ►

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Keep fighting the good fight, Robert. There are many that are listening to you.

You are a wise person, Tex. Thank you for articulating these things so well.

I also think of 2 Timothy 3: 6-7, where Paul warns against those who “follow one craze after another, always seeking learning, but unable ever to come to knowledge of the truth” — in other words, engaging in constant “dialogue” for the sake of nothing more than hearing themselves talk, rather than with any real commitment to finding the truth, much less actually following it!

Interfaith meetings are usually a waste of time. There are certain unbridgeable gaps between faiths. They can be useful in turning down the hate and denuciations of the other. This occurs when both sides agree to “live and let live”. Clearly not the case with Islam and anyone else. Furthermore, we see lonstanding dialogue does not eradicate the hate as anyone witnessing the breakdown of Jewish-Protestant relations in America over BDS can attest.

those who want to know more about political islam can go to the website of dr. bill warner, politicalislam.com. you will soon understand, that because of sharia law, there will be no coming together of muslims and christians. you can believe it will all you want.

This is really unfortunate, that the Catholic church has decided to ‘uninvite’ Mr. Spencer to the conference. The truth is the truth, however uncomfortable. They are truly missing the mark, if they think this was a wise decision. My sincere hope is there will be more & more Robert Spencers around, to continue speaking the truth. No one is perfect, he certainly should not be silenced. It is almost as if, they are afraid of the truth (or what if it was actual truth?).
Ahh, I will pray for America to wake up, see the truth, stand up to it and do the right thing. All it takes is for people to stop being afraid. We may lose the very thing we are afraid of losing, if we don’t actually open our eyes.

NO, Islam does NOT “reveal religion” at all! Holy mobster Moslems only hate infidels because the Qur’an says “god” orders them to – Period.

Islam is a threat to everyone because IT says it is.

ALL moslems are criminals because, by their own rules, they must endorse in public every word in the Qur’an.

And the Qur’an tells them that they are so “superior” to all non-moslem humans, that it’s not only their right, but also their holy duty to their god, to extort, enslave, and murder all the non-moslems in the world, simply for the “crime” of not being moslems.

So the Qur’an is a clearly-written, us-versus-them hate-crime book, endorsing a permanent might-makes-right death-threat.

Here’s islam’s “holy Message from god” as exemplified by the collective words and deeds of it’s Founder:

“I will save humanity by lying to, extorting, torturing, robbing, burning out of their homes, kidnapping and ransoming, enslaving, raping and murdering everyone who even only verbally disagrees with me – and you can, too!”

-Muhammad-

Muhammad was really only a con-man and bandit-king, an arch-criminal who always blamed “god” for his own penchant for committing crimes. If Moe got away with committing a crime (and he tried them all, enthusiastically, more than once, but instead of ever showing contrition, bragged about how much fun it was to commit them, and advised everyone else to join in the fun, too), then it was held to be “obvious” that “god” wanted him to get away with having committed those crimes!

So, islam is not a “religion” (at all, much less one “of peace”) nor is it a “race” (at all, much less one of “Poor, Oppressed, People Of Colour”)!

Obviously, islam is ONLY an ancient, ongoing extortion-racket CRIME-syndicate, and the only “religious” part in it, is where they say:

If they wear the garb and do the required prayers and follow the shariah then they are truely Muslim and they can lie, cheat, steal and murder in the furtherance of Islam and all is forgiven for Islam is the goal of all Muslims.

British and European ruling elites have deliberately colonized Britain and Europe with many millions of Muslims making it easy for Muslims to OBEY the commands given in the Koran and mosques to wage violent jihad against non-Muslims and conquer our nations.

Abu Baseer in London: “One of the goals of immigration is the revival of the duty of jihad and enforcement of power over the infidels. Immigration and jihad go together.

Koran 9:5 “Kill Jews and Christians wherever you find them”.

Founder of Islam, Mohammed: “I have been made victorious with terror”, “Wage war on the infidel and kill them until Islam is dominant” (Koran 8:39)

Christianity has some serious problems which I fear it will never overcome: that “Resist not evil” (*always* turn the other cheek) bit; the “Vengence is (ONLY) the Lord’s;” and “Judge Not (EVER)!” themes are all exercises in cowardly idolatry, in deferring one’s right and duty to distinguish good from evil, and to act accordingly, in order to more easily SUBMIT to evil and the perverse, false “moral high ground” notion, that: “Since you say you’re better than me, and force me to Sumbit, that means it’s all your fault, so none of it’s my fault, so I’m still better than you! Whee!”

Dear Uncle Vladdi, You may be interested to know that not only does Judaism not endorse “Turn the other cheek.” It regards it as a sin. By turning the other cheek one encourages a human being to do an evil thing to another. Of course, neither approach would suit Muslims. Ah well, taqqiya, jihad, enslavement of women, we’ll just have to get used to these or band together to stop them

…if you want to worship God, then do so….you don’t need the crutch of ‘religion’ to do so……whether one of the 3 main Abrahamic religions (Christian, Hebrew, Islam) or other major or minor religion…your relationship with God is the important aspect, not your prophet…

“I’ve been informed from sources close to the events that they were asked to call the diocese and demand the cancellation by a Boston Globe reporter named Lisa J. Wangsness, who appears to have instigated the entire controversy, although she and her editor deny this.”

The Boston Globe has also been relentless in it’s involvement to discredit the Pro Family Group in Massachusetts called MassResistance.