The digital closet: online gaming struggles with gay voices

Gaming companies are struggling with the issue of how to control the content …

Why is the issue of sexual orientation so explosive that the very act of saying the word "gay" or "lesbian" is sometimes against the rules? Bioware found itself on the wrong end of this controversy when a community manager gracelessly began locking threads that discussed the issue, and then claimed that there simply were no gay or lesbian characters in Star Wars. Maybe those words don't exist in galaxies far, far, away, but the characters often do: Bioware themselves created a game with a character who laid down with another woman as with a man.

Sony was a part of a similar controversy after the words "gay" and "Jew" were edited out of Home, the company's social online service for PS3 owners. And Microsoft made headlines when the company banned a player who self-identified as a lesbian, claiming any notice of sexual orientation was against the terms of service.

In some ways it's unfair to take the world of gaming to task for its immature handling of gay and lesbian issues. After all, it's hard to find a game that takes any kind of relationship seriously. This is an art form that knows how to show two people killing each other nearly perfectly, but seems to turn into a bunch of fifth-graders when dealing with a kiss, much less when that kiss is between two men or two women. It's clear that something has to give, although companies only seem to pay attention after receiving the wrong kind of attention for their policies.

"Filtering the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' was clearly a mistake; but one made with the intention of providing a civil atmosphere for players—certainly including gay and lesbian players," EA wrote. "I hope that you and everyone associated with GLAAD understand that this was a mistake based on a sincere effort to filter hateful language off of our web site, and not to discriminate against anyone in the player community."

Taking away the very words used to discuss the issue would certainly lead to less discrimination, as it just pretends that gay and lesbian players don't exist. If we don't talk about the problem, if we take away the ability to even say the word "gay," we've very efficiently brushed the issued under the carpet. We've shoved gay players back into the closet, and installed a door with no key. Does anyone really believe that the word "lesbian" is hate-speech?

What does who you sleep with have to do with your gaming, anyway?

There is a nasty counter-argument that one often sees in this discussion: why not just keep sexual politics out of the world of gaming?

Taking away the very words used to discuss the issue would certainly lead to less discrimination, as it just pretends that gay and lesbian players don't exist.

"I feel that a lot of 'straight' people take for granted that everyone around them is also straight. They just assume that everyone feels the same way and enjoys the same things they do," Flynn De Marco, the Editor in Chief of GayGamer, told Ars. "This is clearly not the case. Being able to identify as gay or lesbian in an online gaming perspective has its positives and negatives. The negatives being obvious in that they face endless harassment. The positives are that maybe you can connect and play with someone else without having to listen to a litany of gay jokes and 'fag' insults," he explained.

"I would prefer to play with people of a like mindset as me, gay or straight. Wouldn't you?"

There is also the subtle change in context that happens when you censor a word: it risks creating the impression that the very act of being who you are in the game constitutes a threat to the community. The attitude behind the censorship seems to be that gamers who aren't straight need to sit down and shut up about it, but of course this is for their own protection.

"I think that in one way [gaming companies] are trying to avoid any controversy or use of the words as derogatory," De Marco noted. "On the other hand I think it shows an extreme short sighted-ness and a bit of ignorance as to who some of their customers or potential customers may be. Accidentally repressing GLBT visibility in forums, even with good intentions, only makes it safer and more acceptable to use hate speech. Visibility is key to equality."

Does gay and lesbian content need to be disclosed?

With same-sex marriage being a hot-button issue in the US at the moment—and some groups claiming that same-sex marriage could hurt the American family—what would gay and lesbian content do to the rating of a game? We reached out to the Entertainment Software Ratings Board and asked if game ratings differentiated between different kinds of sexual content.

"We've encountered the issue of same-sex content before—the boy-boy kiss in Bully being one example—and, as with any sort of suggestive or sexual content, there is always thoughtful discourse as to how best to address it from a ratings perspective," Eliot Mizrachi of the ESRB told Ars. "While there aren't any content descriptors that specifically identify same-sex content, our raters are trained to consider these types of elements within the context of the overall game, and to weigh those factors, among others, when deliberating about which rating and content descriptors would be most appropriate."

We also asked Common Sense Media how they dealt with gay or lesbian content when giving parents guidance on which games and movies are appropriate for their children. "Our philosophy is that all parents are different. We're here to make you a better parent," Marisa Connolly, Communications Manager of Common Sense Media told Ars. "We want to provide as much information as we can, just literally saying here is the content. Here is what goes on in the movie, how much, how explicit it is. Here's how much drinking, those sorts of things."

The content is noted, but like the ESRB, these issues don't affect the guidance on the media. "The idea is to be as objective as we can possible be, we say it's there, but we don't to my knowledge... if it's explicit, we would give it the same ratings as heterosexual activities. We do mention it because we do know that everyone parents differently."

Gaming needs to grow up, in more ways that just this one

"I definitely feel that the LGBT issues are part of the larger issue of gaming's immature treatment of sex," De Marco said. "I would also say that this applies to the US in general when it comes to sex. It's such a huge taboo here, when in other countries they are more worried about things like kids being exposed to violence."

The problem is that while gaming may treat sexuality as a whole clumsily, non-traditional sexual roles in gaming are treated borderline offensively. "At the same time, the immature treatment of LGBT issues goes way beyond the treatment of straight sex. Many of the 'gay' characters seen in games are pure negative stereotype, much like many ethnic depictions," De Marco claims. "People want to suppress or marginalize what they don't understand. Gaming reaches many walks of life, to be certain, but I think we all know that many games are taken in by impressionable young people who need to be taught that everyone they meet in the world is not a walking stereotype. It would be great to see the industry start taking some responsibility about the lessons it is teaching young gamers."

The problem is that we're so far away from having a reasonable discourse on the subject that the very words used to describe it are being treated as toxic in gaming and in official fora. Online gaming is a social activity where anyone can be anything they want, and people are free to explore new ideas and to meet new people. By limiting or even removing the ability to take part in, much less discuss at all, same sex relationships, we're putting an artificial barrier on expression and open communication.

If you can't be yourself in an online game or community, where can you? Gaming should be an escape, a diversion, and a safe place to play. It's certainly the first two things, but the third is a much harder trick. Simply forcing gay and lesbian gamers into silence, however, isn't the answer.

363 Reader Comments

The only problems I have with Gay and Lesbian is their need to advertise it like the flavor of the month. Seriously. Its like asking for trouble in today's world, especially when doing it on the internet.

Originally posted by necrosis:The only problems I have with Gay and Lesbian is their need to advertise it like the flavor of the month. Seriously. Its like asking for trouble in today's world, especially when doing it on the internet.

So what you're saying, is that you're all in favor of equality, as long as you never have to look at or think about people who are different from you? This is a double-standard that really pisses me off - or do you also have a problem with Straights flaunting their sexuality at bars and on TV? I can barely turn my head without seeing Straights "advertising it like it's the flavor of the month."

Originally posted by necrosis:The only problems I have with Gay and Lesbian is their need to advertise it like the flavor of the month. Seriously. Its like asking for trouble in today's world, especially when doing it on the internet.

So what you're saying, is that you're all in favor of equality, as long as you never have to look at or think about people who are different from you? This is a double-standard that really pisses me off - or do you also have a problem with Straights flaunting their sexuality at bars and on TV? I can barely turn my head without seeing Straights "advertising it like it's the flavor of the month."

There is a different between accepting gay people, and getting pissed of at people who need to throw it in your face every five seconds. I don't start a thread stating that I am straight, but a lot gay people do that. Why? I seriously have no idea. Who cares, nobody, especially not me.

Last time I checked I did not see people advertising 'im straight and proud of it' anywhere.

I guess its the 'flamboyant' ones that erk me the most. Ive met gay people im perfectly fine with. They just go on with their lives like (almost) everyone else. No 'gay pride' stickers, dancing around proclaiming it to everyone they see. The need for gamer tags like "gaygamer"...

Wave a red flag in front of the bull and expect to get the horn. Go about your day like everyone else and not get in their face about it.

It in no way shocks me that the first comment is an example of the attitude discussed in the story.

quote:

I guess its the 'flamboyant' ones that erk me the most. Ive met gay people im perfectly fine with. They just go on with their lives like (almost) everyone else. No 'gay pride' stickers, dancing around proclaiming it to everyone they see. The need for gamer tags like "gaygamer"...

I doubt this is an issue I'm going to change your mind on, but I'm not sure what you mean by dancing around proclaiming it to everyone. You mean being open about it? I've met people who are annoying about being tax attorneys, but that doesn't make my blood boil when I see a bumper sticker that says "Tax lawyers do it by the numbers."

As for a site dedicated to gay or lesbian gamers? Xbox Live and online gaming is a cesspool if you're gay or straight, so I can understand a site that deals with gay and lesbian issues in the art form of gaming, with a healthy community of gamers that provide people to play with without being called names every time you log on. It's not about shoving it in your face, and in fact the easiest thing to do is not go to the site instead of getting so upset, it's about community, and enjoying a hobby with people who share your life experiences.

That's why the "just be quiet about it for your own good" attitude is so flawed. You can't openly serve in the military. There is a bitter fight for equal marriage rights. Gaming companies censor words that have to do with your sexual orientation. Being open and comfortable with who you are may irk some, but the more people do it the harder it is for others to keep their outdated attitudes about what it means to be gay or straight.

Given how many times we've done this dance with races, religions, lifestyles, and ethnicities throughout our history it's fairly shocking to me that people still use the I-don't-mind-what-they-are-so-long-as-it's-not-out-there-for-me-to-see argument without seeing how horrid and inconsistent that logic is on its face.

For those of you who have the viewpoint of "I don't care until you rub it in my face" or "why do those gays have to act so damn gay":

What would you have us do? You want the gays and lesbians to be out of sight, and out of mind. That's fine, I don't expect you to like my bedroom proclivities. I don't much care for yours. The problem is, there are a lot of people out there who hate us, and at this point (in most states) we aren't even granted equal legal standing to our heterosexual counterparts. It's uneven, and frankly unfair. You can argue about the morality all you want, but the fact is that a group of people are being discriminated against. So when some of us decide we are fucking tired of it, and maybe we shouldn't be ashamed of who we are, and maybe we shouldn't be discriminated against, then yes, you are going to get some public displays of which team we are playing for.

Now I'm not going to argue about whether or not Xbox Live or whatever is a proper venue for expressing one's sexuality, and I'm not trying to start a flamewar. I'm just giving my opinion, and hopefully some insight, as to why I think some of these things happen. I'm offering this as someone who does not "advertise" their sexuality, in games or elsewhere.

Originally posted by Ben Kuchera:It in no way shocks me that the first comment is an example of the attitude discussed in the story.

Ahh. So its bad to dislike something shoved in my face? It does not matter what it is. Religion, sexual orientation, magazine subscriptions, I don't care. Im sick of peopele pushing crap on me I really do not care to listen to.

I don't go to churches and around advertising im atheist. I don't have parade's down the street about being straight. But I also do not care about what you believe in. Just do not shove it in my face.

I really hate it when black and Mexicans are always pushing their race on me. Seriously can't they stay at home? Wear burkas when out in public? I have nothing against them. But keep your skin color away from my eyes.

Given how many times we've done this dance with races, religions, lifestyles, and ethnicities throughout our history it's fairly shocking to me that people still use the I-don't-mind-what-they-are-so-long-as-it's-not-out-there-for-me-to-see argument without seeing how horrid and inconsistent that logic is on its face.

That reaction doesn't originate with logic; any logic is just a rationalization of the gut reaction which they fail to control.

Originally posted by necrosis:Ahh. So its bad to dislike something shoved in my face? It does not matter what it is. Religion, sexual orientation, magazine subscriptions, I don't care. Im sick of peopele pushing crap on me I really do not care to listen to.

I don't go to churches and around advertising im atheist. I don't have parade's down the street about being straight. But I also do not care about what you believe in. Just do not shove it in my face.

You know I'm a straight heterosexual woman, but your post reflects exactly the kind of attitude men had against woman in the during the early 20th late 19th century. We woman still wouldn't have the right to vote, or equality in the work place had we stayed at home and kept our mouths shut and not been parading down the streets. Sometimes it takes "In your face" to make changes come about.

Gays/Lesbians have as much a right to happiness as anyone else and it's painfully apparent that it's going to take a lot of "Noise" to make that happen.

Originally posted by Ben Kuchera:It in no way shocks me that the first comment is an example of the attitude discussed in the story.

Ahh. So its bad to dislike something shoved in my face? It does not matter what it is. Religion, sexual orientation, magazine subscriptions, I don't care. Im sick of peopele pushing crap on me I really do not care to listen to.

I don't go to churches and around advertising im atheist. I don't have parade's down the street about being straight. But I also do not care about what you believe in. Just do not shove it in my face.

Only it's not in your face. You think of it that way, but in reality it's often a communal area.

Now, if somebody sent you an email, or IMed you, or used some other form of person-to-person communication, that would be in your face.

The problem with how you're expressing your views here (or a problem, at least) is the perception that you're using the actions of a few ("waving it in your face") to pass judgment on the entire gay/lesbian population.

Further, as a minority group with non-trivial cultural stigma attached, it's only natural that some gay people are very vocal about being gay (just as other gays choose to stay "in the closet").

Gay rights, and discrimination against gays are important social issues of our time -- of course there's going to be some froth around the edges. Is it really such a burden to have a few vocal gay people around? And how exactly are they "pushing crap on you"? What, specifically, qualifies as "shoving it in your face"?

Ahh. So its bad to dislike something shoved in my face? It does not matter what it is. Religion, sexual orientation, magazine subscriptions, I don't care. Im sick of peopele pushing crap on me I really do not care to listen to.

I don't go to churches and around advertising im atheist. I don't have parade's down the street about being straight. But I also do not care about what you believe in. Just do not shove it in my face.

I guess I don't see where sexual orientation is being "shoved in my face" often. Can you give some examples of when this has happened and why you found it offensive? At what point, in your mind, does it become problematic when someone self-identifies as gay or straight?

And again, I don't see sexual orientation has being unique in this regard; annoying people are annoying. When I see a straight couple being loud and making out in a gross way at a bar, I look away. I don't care what most people do for a living, so I don't really get riled up about their bumper stickers. If someone is bugging me about religion I change the subject or leave the situation.

If the very act of self-identifying as gay makes you angry when you see it, or you feel that people need to keep it a secret, you need to figure out why. Remember, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's ambivalence. If you feel this strongly about the issue, enough to get annoyed and snap at people in the comments of a story about censoring words online, there is a reason for it.

As a gay man in California (hey, Prop 8 was upheld yesterday) - Thank you Ben.

Necrosis... well Ben's already said it, and reiterating it obviously won't do anything. I hope by saying "As a gay man in California" I didn't dance around too much. I don't actually dance very well, it's usually just the white guy shuffle. If you would like to show me some moves, or give me some dancing tips, please post them. I'm much more comfortable with tech blogs, gaming, gadgets -you know, the things you also like.

Originally posted by method|one:For those of you who have the viewpoint of "I don't care until you rub it in my face" or "why do those gays have to act so damn gay"

Method|One, is this directed at me? I really *don't* care unless it's rubbed in my face. If someone is gay and acts it out, that's fine. If they want to kiss in public, they should expect to receive the same treatment in the same situation as straight people. I've really only met two or three gays who were intentionally obnoxious about being so, and they rightfully deserve my annoyance.

However, I strongly feel that it is *OKAY* to dislike something, even if the distinction is along the lines of a federally protected category. What someone does with this dislike is the question. Are they a dick about it, or are they respectful of the people, even while disagreeing with the behavior? There's frankly no offense caused if someone doesn't like what you do, unless you're sufficiently needy that you're controlled by the opinions of others.

Going slightly off-topic, not specifically talking about gays: I'd rather see discussion where people can take others seriously without being patronizing, and where people can discuss things in depth to understand where the other person is coming from. Sometimes when I pitch an argument like this on ars, others call it out as a red herring, but it most assuredly is not.

The wiles of public opinion change quite frequently, and frankly, I don't think anyone should be belittled because of their individual opinion. This is the key point: more often than not, in probably >90% of cases, serious objections that someone has can be overcome with honest dialogue. I'm vehemently opposed to the notion that if you hold the other person's opinion as an "enemy" to be defeated, you can triumph over their ignorance by ridiculing their opinion. I.e., I don't think fear of something different is best overcome with fear of being perceived as holding non-P.C. views. Unfortunately, those trying to impose the P.C. views on others are frequently just as daft and empty-headed as those who hold opinions generally considered ignorant, but the P.C. types hide behind all kinds of inflated notions to mask the fact that they might not have an opinion of their own.

It's kind of like the silent yuppie disdain for "those hicks and their pickup trucks," to give a plausible example, while the yuppies in this example themselves are no more capable of finding what they individually think, clinging to their beamers and mcmansions as if they have had some great truth revealed to them from above, and based on this belief, they turn their noses up at others, the poor dears.

Perhaps it's just my particular experience which makes me so averse to having to kow-tow to someone else's whims, (and believe me, I'm not defending gay-bashing,) but I disagree with the methods many, many people use to try to change others' opinions. If your argument is strong enough on its own, it should convince reasonable people, and who cares about the unreasonable ones?

Originally posted by Ben Kuchera:It in no way shocks me that the first comment is an example of the attitude discussed in the story.

Ahh. So its bad to dislike something shoved in my face? It does not matter what it is. Religion, sexual orientation, magazine subscriptions, I don't care. Im sick of peopele pushing crap on me I really do not care to listen to.

I don't go to churches and around advertising im atheist. I don't have parade's down the street about being straight. But I also do not care about what you believe in. Just do not shove it in my face.

Only it's not in your face. You think of it that way, but in reality it's often a communal area.

Now, if somebody sent you an email, or IMed you, or used some other form of person-to-person communication, that would be in your face.

I don't see why someone's sexual preferences (perversions?) ought to be a subject for discussion on forums (etc.) dedicated to gaming.

Maybe I like to ass-rape donkeys and sheep. Should I start a thread on a gaming forum about this? So I can play without discrimination with other donkey raping shit eaters? Maybe I like watching monkeys fucking coconuts - would it be appropriate for my XBox live handle to be MFC-lover?

Originally posted by method|one:For those of you who have the viewpoint of "I don't care until you rub it in my face" or "why do those gays have to act so damn gay"

Method|One, is this directed at me? I really *don't* care unless it's rubbed in my face. If someone is gay and acts it out, that's fine. If they want to kiss in public, they should expect to receive the same treatment in the same situation as straight people. I've really only met two or three gays who were intentionally obnoxious about being so, and they rightfully deserve my annoyance.

It wasn't directed at you specifically, thebackwash, but it was inspired in part by your comment.

You are entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to dislike things. I'm not trying to change your viewpoint. Others have explained my position better than I have, I think, so I'll just leave it at that.

This is always an easy one. Just replace the word "gay" with "black" and you have a good idea of how you sound to the rest of us.

I live in an incredibly gay friendly city in Massachusetts. Many close friends are gay and many conversations at the bar on a Friday night tend to be absolutely filthy....but that's often how you speak with your close friends.

You can't have a double standard. You can't have the "same but different" thing. You want to tell bawdy jokes at the bar with straight friends, you need allow the same.

Originally posted by method|one:For those of you who have the viewpoint of "I don't care until you rub it in my face" or "why do those gays have to act so damn gay"

Method|One, is this directed at me? I really *don't* care unless it's rubbed in my face. If someone is gay and acts it out, that's fine. If they want to kiss in public, they should expect to receive the same treatment in the same situation as straight people. I've really only met two or three gays who were intentionally obnoxious about being so, and they rightfully deserve my annoyance.

It wasn't directed at you specifically, thebackwash, but it was inspired in part by your comment.

You are entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to dislike things. I'm not trying to change your viewpoint. Others have explained my position better than I have, I think, so I'll just leave it at that.

For the record, I don't mind gay people at all.

The way I discuss things has the leftists I've met convinced I'm a fascist, and the rightists convinced I'm a pinko commie. The born-agains think I'm a godless heathen, and the atheists I know (met them on campus at one of their atheist club events) think I'm a crazy fundie. Do I just go about approaching these issues in a way which is different from everybody else?

Originally posted by method|one:For those of you who have the viewpoint of "I don't care until you rub it in my face" or "why do those gays have to act so damn gay"

Method|One, is this directed at me? I really *don't* care unless it's rubbed in my face. If someone is gay and acts it out, that's fine. If they want to kiss in public, they should expect to receive the same treatment in the same situation as straight people. I've really only met two or three gays who were intentionally obnoxious about being so, and they rightfully deserve my annoyance.

It wasn't directed at you specifically, thebackwash, but it was inspired in part by your comment.

You are entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to dislike things. I'm not trying to change your viewpoint. Others have explained my position better than I have, I think, so I'll just leave it at that.

For the record, I don't mind gay people at all.

The way I discuss things has the leftists I've met convinced I'm a fascist, and the rightists convinced I'm a pinko commie. The born-agains think I'm a godless heathen, and the atheists I know (met them on campus at one of their atheist club events) think I'm a crazy fundie. Do I just go about approaching these issues in a way which is different from everybody else?

Aww thanks for saying you don't mind me. That's the sweetest thing someone's said to me all week.

I don't see why someone's sexual preferences (perversions?) ought to be a subject for discussion on forums (etc.) dedicated to gaming.

In the case of Bioware, they're creating an online game, and the discussion was centered around whether the game would allow gay or lesbian characters. MMO titles have relationships as a major part of the experience, and just as straight people would prefer not to be forced to be a gay character, some members of the community were interested in whether they could role play characters with their own sexual orientation.

quote:

Maybe I like to ass-rape donkeys and sheep. Should I start a thread on a gaming forum about this? So I can play without discrimination with other donkey raping shit eaters? Maybe I like watching monkeys fucking coconuts - would it be appropriate for my XBox live handle to be MFC-lover?

This is another way the discourse becomes hateful: you just equated being gay to raping animals. Do you really think that gay relationships are the same as forcibly having intercourse with an animal?

The conversations in most cases are civil and deal with issues in gaming, just like this story does. Gaming is an art form, just like film or music. Games can allow us to be other people, or feel different things. You can't remove your sexual orientation or life experiences when reacting to games, and you shouldn't have to.

I once had an interesting conversation with a man who spoke about how he dealt with his Catholic beliefs in games, and how his convictions made him play certain games or make certain choices in online and offline games where he had freedom to take different paths. We felt very similar about issues -- I also tend to be the "good guy" and feel guilty when I take the evil choices in games -- but listening to how his morals affected his gaming habits was fascinating, and gave me a ton of insight about religion that I didn't have before.

Religion is another contentious issue, but if we said that religion is completely off the table when discussing games I would not have been able to look at games from his perspective and learn more about how people deal with games in their life. Being Catholic was a large part of his life, you can't fairly say he's not allowed to talk about it or react to games based on his convictions.

Your sexual orientation has much to do with who you are and what your experiences have been like up until this point. If you're straight you take it for granted because you're the majority. If you're gay you're dealing with a lot of loaded issues, and on top of that you're being told you can't talk about them or express them in the world of gaming.

Originally posted by method|one:For those of you who have the viewpoint of "I don't care until you rub it in my face" or "why do those gays have to act so damn gay"

Method|One, is this directed at me? I really *don't* care unless it's rubbed in my face. If someone is gay and acts it out, that's fine. If they want to kiss in public, they should expect to receive the same treatment in the same situation as straight people. I've really only met two or three gays who were intentionally obnoxious about being so, and they rightfully deserve my annoyance.

It wasn't directed at you specifically, thebackwash, but it was inspired in part by your comment.

You are entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to dislike things. I'm not trying to change your viewpoint. Others have explained my position better than I have, I think, so I'll just leave it at that.

For the record, I don't mind gay people at all.

The way I discuss things has the leftists I've met convinced I'm a fascist, and the rightists convinced I'm a pinko commie. The born-agains think I'm a godless heathen, and the atheists I know (met them on campus at one of their atheist club events) think I'm a crazy fundie. Do I just go about approaching these issues in a way which is different from everybody else?

Aww thanks for saying you don't mind me. That's the sweetest thing someone's said to me all week.

I'm all for experimenting with online communities that allow that allow people to be openly gay. I know for a fact that that an open community can work if it is small. I've played on a few CS servers where the people are genuinely friendly. And if someone joins and starts being an ass, they get kicked. A peer moderated system works, assuming the majority of the people are decent. But in a larger online setting like xbox live, this is more difficult to do. I'm a realist, and expecting the online gaming community to mature and accept people for who they are is like expecting the internet to grow up. It's something that I don't think can happen. For these large communities, like xbox live, I feel that the "don't ask, don't tell" mentality is the only, however unfair, solution. But this is one of those situations where I'd like to be proven wrong.

The only thing that matters and the only point that needs to be made is that penis+penis and vagina+vagina interactions hurt no one nor are they negative in any way whatsoever, so everyone just needs to realize this and grow up about sex. Not just about same-sex relationships, but sex in general as well, as the article pointed out. Violence is hurtful, sex isn't, and it's sad that most every other country besides the U.S. understands that.

Just today I was driving with my brother when he was cut off by another car. He tisked and say, "Dude, that's so gay." Realizing what he said he turned to me and tried to save with "I mean, uh, the bad gay, not the, uh, good gay." Cracks me up. But it does go to show how deeply we are trained in our very language to associate gay with bad.

As a queer gamer myself I often find that "fag" and "that's so gay" are very often thrown in my face. In every online game I have played on terms for homosexuality are eventually equated with everything bad, wrong, and weak in the world.

I don't go out of my way to advertise my orientation, yet I'm not going to sit back and let a core part of who I am be used as an insult. To do so is to allow an atmosphere of hatred that may later get someone injured or killed in offline life. So I've developed a technique for online education in situations like these.

I chat back, "That's not gay, but I am," or "That's not gay, that's just bad," or some similar semi-humorous comment.

Roughly half the time this approach results in dead silence from whomever was typing the insults. Maybe another 30% of cases will results in questions like "Hey Slam are you really gay? Oh. Cool by me, whatever." About 2 times in 10 this will results in a stream of profanity and personal attacks that get rather graphic usually involving scatological, parental, and/or autoerotic insults; what I would call a verbal hate crime.

So fair warning, gamers: You bring it up first and I will talk about it.

(I have to say arstech really does distinguish itself with the depth and breadth of coverage on tech issues. Just goes from strength to strength.)

I think everything I could say has already been said by someone up above. I'll just add the thought that it's encouraging to see that most gaming companies, once consumers tweak their ear, do actually try to respond to criticism around inclusivity issues and do take it seriously. I guess at the end of the day money talks. Yay for money. (Never thought I'd hear myself typing that.)

Originally posted by imtheunknown176:I'm all for experimenting with online communities that allow that allow people to be openly gay. I know for a fact that that an open community can work if it is small. I've played on a few CS servers where the people are genuinely friendly. And if someone joins and starts being an ass, they get kicked. A peer moderated system works, assuming the majority of the people are decent. But in a larger online setting like xbox live, this is more difficult to do. I'm a realist, and expecting the online gaming community to mature and accept people for who they are is like expecting the internet to grow up. It's something that I don't think can happen. For these large communities, like xbox live, I feel that the "don't ask, don't tell" mentality is the only, however unfair, solution. But this is one of those situations where I'd like to be proven wrong.

Unfortunately "don't ask don't tell" just fosters anti-gay rhetoric by implying that gay people are less than everyone else. Either a community bites the bullet and does the hard work, or they just become a haven for the maladjusted.

Originally posted by Yfrwlf:The only thing that matters and the only point that needs to be made is that penis+penis and vagina+vagina interactions hurt no one nor are they negative in any way whatsoever, so everyone just needs to realize this and grow up about sex. Not just about same-sex relationships, but sex in general as well, as the article pointed out. Violence is hurtful, sex isn't, and it's sad that most every other country besides the U.S. understands that.

I couldn't agree more. Gaming takes such a juvenile approach to anything sexual, it's ridiculous, and it's concerning that a banal, poorly animated portrayal of basic intercourse (hot coffee, for example), impossible to access without hacking the game, is enough to get a game pulled, but there are no objections whatsoever to a game portraying nearly any level of violence. Why is it that we're so much more okay sanctioning violence than any expression of love?

As for the whole sexual orientation debate, it's one of those things that people would like to sweep under the table, along with the remaining latent racism and sexism that still permeates our country. But if we simply silence public discourse because it makes us uncomfortable, it tacitly endorses the silent discrimination of the status quo. So, people should be able to be who they are, and state as much, even if it makes you uncomfortable, but on the other hand, it is true that some people use it as a divisive issue to start flame wars that are not on point to gaming discussions. My feeling is, in a gaming forum, if sexual orientation is used as a relevant part of a discussion, it makes sense to allow it, but a community must be vigilant that such a discussion stays relevant and does not degenerate into a shouting match over sexuality. Simply banning the words and silencing all conversation, though, can serve no useful purpose other than to institutionalize discrimination and squelch dissent.