Mm, that mazda 6 with leather package etc is borderline luxury, and handles sweet (I had it as a rental, a stripper, but it handled good), and the price is certainly enticing. I would not recommend the Malibu (I had it also as a rental, it handles fine, but it is heavy and the interior quality is a joke, it is not comfortable; if it has a good epa rating, it does not meet its epa rating because it was drinking gas like a failed AA meeting).

Since when is a 3-series a "luxury" car anyway? Bad enough that half of this board thinks their 335i is some kind of racecar. I guess the other half thinks that their 3-series is some kind of exclusive luxury automobile. This thread is indicative of the mindset that has earned BMW drivers the distinction of being some of the biggest douches on the road. Guess what? I probably saw 5 e90 3-series on the way to work today. And I don't even live in a city with any wealth in it. Get over yourselves.

They are sporty, mid-priced cars that are as common as can be.

Jeez who shit in your cereal this morning. It's just a discussion calm down.

Ive done it a number of times. Its all about what you like. A 3-series is hardly a high end luxury by many standards. Heck in the new Fiesta you can get leather, touch scree nav, heated seats, moon roof. Does that mean its a luxury? Ive owned a few Cadillac's that I would hardly consider luxury but its still the class they are in?

But I still have my R33 Skyline & I actually like the steering feel of that car than my BMW, plus since my 335i was pretty much a "pov-spec" with no options ticked, I find the R33's seat despite being just plain cloth has much better support than the standard leather on my BMW.

Not to mention the $50 or so DIY service I can do for that car + ~170k km on the clock (most likely turned back being a Jap import) & not a single oil,diff,transmission leak... can't say the same thing about my Bimmer.

Same here, but I would also rock a FR-S or BRZ no problem. In fact I think I might prefer it to a current VW, but I'd also be quite proud of an '81 Scirocco S (on my list of cars to just buy if I ever find one in good condition for sale.) I still miss my '84 Scirocco that I sold for $600, I must have been having a stupid day when I decided to sell it.

This is true, as BT, sat nav, and other luxury features that were not found in the more mainstream models are all available, even standard. BUT, compare the quality side by side. The feel of the buttons and knobs, the smoothness of the operation, the feedback, etc. These human elements are what luxury car companies lose hair and sleep over to get right, and there are significant differences. Like anything else, with a car, you get what you pay for.

Does the Optima have power/heated/leather seats? Absolutely. But feel the leather. Listen to the motor noise when you move the seat, and feel the feedback of the button when you press that button down. Is it a feedback force that is just right, or is it simply an on/off switch that feels like cheap $.20 trigger you get at Radio Shack? I'm anal about stuff like this, and since I work in an industry where we take a lot of time in the lab to perfect little niggling shit like this, I can appreciate the effort and time that higher-end car makers put into "sensory perfection." It's also why you pay twice as much for a BMW that is smaller than a car like the Optima, sometimes with less features.

Would you prefer regular Jose Cuervo, or a bottle of freezer-chilled Sauza Tres Generaciones?

I agree with what you say and also would classify a 3er, at least one well loaded, as if not "luxury" at least a "premium compact" as it really is a cut above the mainstream. However, two quibbles (which annoy me as I've always associated German cars with excellent ergonomics, and I don't remember having these issues the few times I've driven an E36 or E46, and certainly not in my old E28):

Dammit BMW, would it have been so hard to have a normally proportioned male sit in the car before you pushed it out the door and ensure that he can see the whole gauge cluster through the steering wheel when all the controls are comfortably adjusted?

Also quite related: how hard would it have been to add another inch or two to the telescoping on the steering wheel so I could recline the seat a little bit and still have a proper driving position?

I came damn close to buying a Golf R to replace my E46, before winding up with the d, so I'd say absolutely. I just want practical, comfortable, fun to drive, and reasonably fast, and there are plenty of options that hit those notes, not all of them in "upscale" brands. But I eliminate cars from consideration based on their individual attributes, not the $0.50 piece of plastic on the hood/grille.

Yes. And I did. I had two A4's and a MB before getting my Mazdaspeed 3. I liked my
MS3 better than any of them. My wife and I would fight to drive that car over the others.

I'm not looking for "luxury" when I purchase a car; I'm looking for the fun to drive factor. In this case, my 335 is a blast to drive, and had more room for my kids than my MS3. It just happens that my BMW may be considers luxury. If Toyota made a car as fun and roomy as my 3, I'd buy it

BMW 3 is a drivers car, not a luxury car. Most of the value in e9x, for example, is in chassis, suspension, braking, steering, engine engineering. All other features are add-ons to make it feel luxurious for the US market. Many 3 series in Europe don't have leather and power features. People buy them because of the handling. If you think the BMW with leather is a luxury car good for you. That is exactly the mission of BMW.

On the other hand, some luxury brands want you to believe that buttons and gizmos are the luxury. Once you compare the handling and the feel to 3 series it is obvious the cars are different. The guts of BMW are a level above most luxury brands (1st par).

Also, "luxury" is almost impossible to define. The most common reference is a big expensive car with just about any feature you can imagine that isolates the driver form the external environment, i.e. BMW 760 Li (V12), MB S class, RR, Bentley, Audi A8. They even have an interphone so the the driver does not have to open a window when talking to people outside. Also, any option can be added even if not in the catalog. The 5 series, A6 and MB E are probably an entry level luxury vehicles now.

Since when is a 3-series a "luxury" car anyway? Bad enough that half of this board thinks their 335i is some kind of racecar. I guess the other half thinks that their 3-series is some kind of exclusive luxury automobile. This thread is indicative of the mindset that has earned BMW drivers the distinction of being some of the biggest douches on the road. Guess what? I probably saw 5 e90 3-series on the way to work today. And I don't even live in a city with any wealth in it. Get over yourselves.

Since when is a 3-series a "luxury" car anyway? Bad enough that half of this board thinks their 335i is some kind of racecar. I guess the other half thinks that their 3-series is some kind of exclusive luxury automobile. This thread is indicative of the mindset that has earned BMW drivers the distinction of being some of the biggest douches on the road. Guess what? I probably saw 5 e90 3-series on the way to work today. And I don't even live in a city with any wealth in it. Get over yourselves.

They are sporty, mid-priced cars that are as common as can be.

The fact that it is popular just means that there are people who appreciate the combination of good handling, good power, and above-average accomodations inside the car. (or that there are people that think that driving something with a propellor on the hood makes them better than everyone else, but those people can DIAF.)

When looking around for a car to purchase, I would have had to settle for a car with less power, inferior handling, less passenger/luggage room, fewer features and/or conveniences, and/or inferior quality interior trim if i'd bought anything else.

The fact that it is popular just means that there are people who appreciate the combination of good handling, good power, and above-average accomodations inside the car. (or that there are people that think that driving something with a propellor on the hood makes them better than everyone else, but those people can DIAF.)

When looking around for a car to purchase, I would have had to settle for a car with less power, inferior handling, less passenger/luggage room, fewer features and/or conveniences, and/or inferior quality interior trim if i'd bought anything else.

Is it a perfect car? No. But it's the best at what it is.

It's actually the bravarian flag on the hood

I usually buy nice clean german cars around 3-4 years old with 30-40k miles. I saved over 50% off the original sticker on my 08 335 e90, it had 39k miles on it and still feels like a new car. I would much rather buy a used good car then a new cheap car that will feel like an old beat car after a few years. I have always had Audis in the past but I could not resist the n54, it makes me every time I drive it.

The fact that it is popular just means that there are people who appreciate the combination of good handling, good power, and above-average accomodations inside the car. (or that there are people that think that driving something with a propellor on the hood makes them better than everyone else, but those people can DIAF.)

When looking around for a car to purchase, I would have had to settle for a car with less power, inferior handling, less passenger/luggage room, fewer features and/or conveniences, and/or inferior quality interior trim if i'd bought anything else.

Is it a perfect car? No. But it's the best at what it is.

nope. i remember a survey of 1 series owners where 80% of the responders thought their car was fwd lol. most bmw drivers are clueless about driver engagement, and i think bmw is starting to cater to that audience now. if you've driven the new 3 series, you can tell its softened up to accommodate badge chasers. i honestly think my brother's manual honda fit is more fun to drive than an f30.

i like my 328i. its got pretty balanced handling and a good steering rack. i've been pretty disappointed with the interior quality but i'm not too worried about it. when the door trim peels, you can see that the plastic underneath is no better than a sub $15k car. that said, i'd definitely consider switching to another car when i'm due for a new one. if its very engaging to drive and at least practical enough to be a dd, that's all i really want. doesnt matter what brand it is. if bmw doesnt retune the eps anytime soon, i prob wont get another bimmer. maybe a used nsx....hmmm....