Yep, I knew about that. The best thing is that the amount we're giving up is going down at the same time our scoring avering is going up.

I had no idea we moved up to 15 in defense though. That's more encouraging than the our offensive numbers going up.

Trader Joe

12-19-2007, 04:21 PM

:woot:

kidthecat

12-19-2007, 05:36 PM

Also notice how low the Pacers' FG percentage is in comparison to the other top scoring teams. If that climbs, well, you can imagine the rest.

MyFavMartin

12-19-2007, 05:38 PM

Anybody have a stat on how many blown leads we've had?

The ability to get a large lead is a sign of talent and hard work.

The ability to keep a big lead is a sign of maturity and tenacity.

Keep the pedal to the metal guys!

BruceLeeroy

12-19-2007, 05:52 PM

That's pretty sweet. It's hard to believe really. Who thought with the way they were playing towards the end of last season they'd be able to get it together this season and lead our conference in scoring? Not me.

Very impressive....and they still can get better.

Kstat

12-19-2007, 05:59 PM

Who did you expect to lead the east in scoring? There are only 2-3 teams that play at Indiana's tempo.

BruceLeeroy

12-19-2007, 06:04 PM

Who did you expect to lead the east in scoring? There are only 2-3 teams that play at Indiana's tempo.

True but considering where we were towards the end of last season and the fact we are in the middle of the pack on D while still running is pretty impressive.

Naptown_Seth

12-19-2007, 06:13 PM

Pace matters though. On one hand I understand the point about lots of scoring brings in fans, but on the other you also need to win to bring in fans.

Right now the Pacers have been pretty inefficient in their scoring, thus the reduced pace totals. The Pacers are only 18th in terms of scoring per possession they get, and despite giving up more points than they score for most of the year they are actually ranked higher on defense per possession (15th).

They run but they are extremely sloppy and often rely on jump shooting, which outside of Dunleavy hasn't appeared to be all that improved from last year (thus some of us having off-season concerns).

When you look at the JOB teams of the past you see that the Pacers are falling right in line with their MO. A mediocre offensive rating but usually a pretty solid or top 5 defense, with top 5 defense meaning a strong playoff team.

There was this idea that JOBs teams were great offensively, but that's never been true. He fixes the defense and lets the offensive end just take care of itself. Right now the Pacers haven't fixed the DEF, it's actually behind last year's version per possession, but then that included the pre-trade time too. Still I think it's showing signs, and with Dun's dramatic improvement from 3 and Tins back on track the offense is at least slightly improved over the final 3 months of last season (ugh).

Who did you expect to lead the east in scoring? There are only 2-3 teams that play at Indiana's tempo.From the guy that said he doesn't believe in per possession rankings. ;)

True but considering where we were towards the end of last season and the fact we are in the middle of the pack on D while still running is pretty impressive.
Um...if you don't factor for pace the Pacers are 4th WORST in Points Allowed. Only GS, Memphis and Seattle have given up more. And only GS is winning, being the only one scoring more than they give up. PHOENIX has given up less points than Indy. Think about that. I think Buck just threw up a little.

When you look at points/poss at both ends, W-L record and team FG% things don't look much different from last year, at least at this same point in the season. I say this despite the fact that my low expectations post-trade have me pretty happy about this team. I'm just starting to hit the phase past that point, the one that says "great....now what" and realizes it's still a 6th seed with contracts that suggest little change over the next 2-3 years.

CableKC

12-19-2007, 06:34 PM

Our defense is allowing 104.5/game, which places us 15th.
Is that 15th place in the East ( as in we are at the bottom of the pack in the East )?

or

Is that 15th place in the entire league?

I checked...and we are giving up 104.5 points to the opponent....which places us at the bottom of the Eastern Conference and 27th place in the entire League.

The good thiing is that we are in the top 4 in the league in keeping the opposing team's FG% to 43.91%.

BruceLeeroy

12-19-2007, 06:39 PM

Seth, I realize we've given up a lot of points but you have to factor in the pace.

If Phil has his numbers right the D is doing a lot better than I thought. 3rd in opponents FG% and 15 in PPG speaks for itself.

I'll have to check where those other teams you mentioned rank in those areas.

Ok that makes more sense Cable. Still 3rd in defensive FG% is more important than PPG anyways IMO.

OakMoses

12-19-2007, 06:40 PM

I say this despite the fact that my low expectations post-trade have me pretty happy about this team. I'm just starting to hit the phase past that point, the one that says "great....now what" and realizes it's still a 6th seed with contracts that suggest little change over the next 2-3 years.

Draft well. Sign cheapish free agents who fit your system and identity. Make good trades. Those are the three ways you build great teams. I think the Pacers have the assets and opportunity to do all three of those things, probably more so now than in the past. We have a system now. We have a coach who knows what he wants from players and what players need to be able to do to fit in. This makes Bird's job a lot easier. We have decent young assets (Danny, Ike, Shawne, maybe even David) that we can use to either help move bad contracts or trade to address obvious needs. We have a good record, at least in two of the past 3 years, of drafting well in the middle of the 1st round, which is where this team appears to be right now.

In most organizations, sports and otherwise, a strong vision, strong leadership, and a stable core are the attributes that lead to success. If we stick with O'Brien and Bird and define our core players, I think that we're closer to acheiving a lasting success than we've been in a long time.

Sorry, didn't mean to go too far off track. It's awesome that we're leading the league in scoring, but I'm much happier about the fact that we're 13-12 with lots of room for improvement and a coach and group of players who seem very willing to do what it takes to get better.

Kstat

12-19-2007, 08:13 PM

I still think there's a problem when you give up more points than you score.

The stats are actually very telling. The Pacers are very good in defensive %FG but very poor in offensive FG%. Likewise, they are very poor in allowing points and very good at scoring them.

You can look at it one of two ways- either the Pacers offense is a product of the pace they play, and they need to improve defensively, or the pacers need to improve offensively to offset their defense.

owl

12-19-2007, 10:08 PM

Point differential is the best indicator and right now the Pacers have a lot of room to
improve before I get too excited about their potential. But they are eminently more
watchable than last year.

spazzxb

12-19-2007, 10:21 PM

Point differential is the best indicator and right now the Pacers have a lot of room to
improve before I get too excited about their potential. But they are eminently more
watchable than last year.

Comments like this are a great improvement from the screams of how people thought we were the worst team in the league that saturated this board a few months ago. I am very happy wth where we are at (if we ignore salary).

Kstat

12-19-2007, 10:35 PM

yeah, all the issues aside, Indiana is a playoff team, at least right now. Not just in record, but quality of play.