We introduced Mizzou to the SEC earlier Tuesday, but now it's time to get dirty.

Big 12 blogger David Ubben and Edward Aschoff debate: What awaits Missouri in the SEC?

The decline of one of college football's rising programs? Or new heights in a foreign conference that's college football's toughest?

Let's hash this out.

Edward Aschoff: So, with the Tigers joining the SEC, some are wondering if they will make more of an impact in basketball than football. After all, the Big 12 hasn't exactly had its way with the SEC lately in football. But Mizzou does bring back a slew of talent on both sides of the ball and could compete in the SEC East in its first season. David, why should we believe that Missouri will be anything more than just a one-hit wonder?

David Ubben: Gary Pinkel. You'll hear this stat parroted often, but the Tigers are one of just a handful -- six, I believe -- teams in college football to win at least eight games in six consecutive seasons. TCU and Boise State have done it, too, but doing so outside of a power conference is nowhere near as impressive.

The Tigers haven't necessarily won big. The program is still seeking its first BCS bowl appearance but they've won consistently on the back of solid recruiting and even better development. Even in the program's glory years under Dan Devine in the 1960s, it never saw this kind of consistent success.

Players know what is expected of them under Pinkel. He wants to retire at Missouri, a point he has reiterated several times. The fans love him after this six-season stretch that followed some rough years early on, and they would love to have him there as long as he wants. He has got the program rolling, and deep enough that a nightmare year of 4-5 wins just isn't going to happen.

Of course, he's done much of this on the back of Texas recruits, a luxury afforded many of the teams in the former Big 12 North after the Southwest Conference merged with the Big 8 Conference.

We've already seen them shift some recruiting focus into your neck of the woods, Florida and Atlanta. What does this program have to do to make some recruiting inroads there and continue this success?

How will James Franklin fare against more athletic and tougher defenses?

EA: Well, getting into the Florida and Atlanta areas is a good start, but Missouri can't forget about the entire Southeast. There are some other states that can be Missouri's friends as well. One thing going for Missouri is that St. Louis and Kansas City are pretty close. Both are about two hours away from Columbia and kids just love the those big cities! But the bright lights and the big malls can only take Missouri so far. Missouri has to prove that it can really compete on the SEC's level for an entire season and beyond. Winning just comes naturally in this conference, so Missouri will have to prove that it can keep up for years to come. One thing that will really get the athletes' attentions in the Southeast will be starting things off on the right foot. Playing in the SEC East and returning a good amount of starters should help with that. But make no mistake about it, there will be tons of negative recruiting thrown Missouri's way because of its Big 12 past and the fact that those starters will soon be gone after their SEC introduction.

Missouri's coaches are going to have to get very aggressive when it comes to recruiting over here. It's a rough game in the South. There are no unwritten rules about being respectful of committed prospects. SEC coaches play for keeps down here.

Also, Missouri's coaches are going to have to compete with the distance factor. Columbia is almost 700 miles away. There certainly are players who travel away from the Deep South, but most of them stay home. Can Missouri build enough of that family atmosphere to get these players to venture over to its neck of the woods?

We've hit on Missouri's returners, but in order to win in the SEC you have to play well up front. Everyone says this a line-of-scrimmage league and from what I've read it sounds like Missouri's defensive line could have/should have played better in 2011. How do the Tigers make sure they're strong and tough enough up front to compete in this league?

DU: Good points on Mizzou's recruiting trying to spread its wings. The problem? They'll try to maintain those ties in Texas and it'll have to make sure they don't get spread too thin.

These are all issues Mizzou's coaching staff will have to figure out. I'm glad I don't have to.

You're right about the defensive line. It was good in 2011, but not as good as people thought. It'll have to be better. Landing a couple of those big defensive tackles down south would serve the Tigers well. For now, they've got great size coming back in a St. Louis kid, Sheldon Richardson. He's a 6-foot-4, 290-pounder with great athleticism who went to junior college before coming back to Mizzou. USC defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin almost got his hands on him out, but the Tigers have him and need him to have a huge season as a senior in Year 1 in the SEC.

The defensive line lost three starters, but they were deep in 2011 and have good pieces to fill the losses of Terrell Resonno and Dominique Hamilton at tackle and Jacquies Smith at defensive end. The time is now for promising ends Michael Sam and Kony Ealy.

Richardson's the biggest piece, at tackle. Brad Madison was a Big 12 Preseason Defensive Player of the Year candidate at defensive end, but had a disappointing season after playing through a shoulder injury that really limited his effectiveness and flexibility on the line. He'll be hungry as a senior in 2012. Memo to SEC offensive lines: Look out for the spin move.

Gary Pinkel's success in coming seasons will hinge on how well Missouri can recruit in the South. Players like Richardson come down to recruiting, though. The kinds of players Mizzou needs on the defensive lines are much more plentiful in their new recruiting soil. Getting their feet on the ground in junior colleges will be huge.

What about the offense, though? You've seen these SEC defenses up close all season. I'd argue that outside of Alabama, LSU and Georgia, the SEC's defenses were way overrated based on reputation this season.

Will the Tigers' spread offense work in the SEC East? What, if anything, has to change?

EA: Well, you certainly won't make friends down here with that sort of talk. South Carolina fans will surely let you know just how they feel about being left out of the defensive discussion. After all, South Carolina ranked third nationally in total defense and the SEC had six defenses ranked in the top 25, including five in the top eight. But I digress. We've seen the spread work before in the SEC. Florida's 2007 and 2008 offenses were two of the best in the country. The 2009 team put up a good bit of yards too. We've seen elements of the spread in other offenses as well around the SEC, and Arkansas does a great job of spreading defenders out with its passing game. Mississippi State also utilized a pretty successful spread offense in 2010.

In order for it to work, the offensive line has to be beefy and athletic. I know, it's an interesting concept, but you won't survive in this league without some real athletes up front. You've said in the past that Missouri's offensive line was a better than average, well that won't cut it in this league.

You also need some elite speed at the wide receiver position and a sound running game. Getting Dorial Green-Beckham out there could be a major get for this offense because of his size and speed. As for running, mobile running backs and commanding the read option are key. Missouri will have to find ways to combat the tremendous speed off the edge from SEC pass rushers every week. That's James Franklin's running ability comes in. Working the option is huge in the spread.

Well, let's wrap this thing up. I think Missouri will be fun to watch next season, but I'm not sure how well the Tigers will do afterward. You've been around Missouri a lot longer, where do you see Missouri stacking up in the next few years in the SEC?

DU: Good point on those SEC defenses being awesome. I know guys such as Morgan Newton, Justin Worley and Clint Moseley give defensive coordinators nightmares. Somebody get the Gamecocks a medal for not letting Arkansas score 50 and getting lucky enough to dodge LSU and Alabama on the schedule.

But I'm getting off target here, much like SEC quarterbacks' passes.

As for the Tigers, it's going to be tough when the current players begin to leave. I don't think they'll have as much success recruiting in Texas, but I've got no idea if they'll be able to get a foothold near the SEC East and, like you said, convince some of these kids to come to Missouri.

Neither outcome would surprise me, but I think as the transition happens and the current talent begins to drain out of the program, the Tigers will hit some lean years. Whether they bounce back depends on what everything in college football depends on: recruiting.

Your average college football fan, the one who takes the AP Top 25 as gospel, tends to believe and repeat this. This same stereotype has been laid on the SEC QB's for years... these same QB's, year in and year out, have to play against the only thing close to NFL defenses that you'll ever see in college ball.

About every year I do a running count of every starting QB in the NFL by conference. Forever, the pattern has been anywhere from 6-8 starting NFL QB's from the SEC, near that number from the Pac 12 and non BCS conferences, and then everyone else way down the list, including the Texas league.

SEC QB's are historically, if you believe in NFL talent evaluations, about better than any other conference's QBs. They just have to do it against real defenses that don't let them play pinball offense.

Your average college football fan, the one who takes the AP Top 25 as gospel, tends to believe and repeat this. This same stereotype has been laid on the SEC QB's for years... these same QB's, year in and year out, have to play against the only thing close to NFL defenses that you'll ever see in college ball.

About every year I do a running count of every starting QB in the NFL by conference. Forever, the pattern has been anywhere from 6-8 starting NFL QB's from the SEC, near that number from the Pac 12 and non BCS conferences, and then everyone else way down the list, including the Texas league.

SEC QB's are historically, if you believe in NFL talent evaluations, about better than any other conference's QBs. They just have to do it against real defenses that don't let them play pinball offense.

What happened to Texass' All Big 12 QB when they played 'Bama? Didn't make it past the 2nd Quarter. Hell Lol Miss Beat OSU and Texas Tech and their Pinball QB's in BACK TO BACK JANUARY 1 BOWLS.... BACK TO BACK... Our average defense shut down Collin Kline and knocked the shit out of him all day...Oh and 3-0 vs Texas A&M while mostly slapping their QB's around.

I've never seen another fanbase try to get as much mileage from a win as these dipshits do from that cotton bowl. Never mind all the circumstances around that game for us. It would be like hog fans beating their chest about that win over indiana a few years ago in the ncaa tournament. I don't even know any hog fans that feel good about that.

If Bama goes down in Columbia next season, the Tide fans will see that up close and personal.

There's a whole lot of rutard linked in this thread, but this one made me guffaw a little. If it wasn't so early at work, I'm sure a couple people would be peeking around the corner to see what the fuck was the matter.

They seem to be coming into the conference repeating the words "the SEC is the best conference" and "SEC defenses are tops", but their actions belie their idiocy. They really think that footbaw is footbaw, and that they'll slot right in and take up their middle-of-the-pack-with-occasional-top-two-finishes place in the weak sister division like they did in the Big TeXus conference. Bama is going to demolish their asses, and they won't even know what hit them. I just double checked for shits and grins, and they don't even play Bama until the middle of October. They'll be good and warmed up, and all those next-man-ups will be legit starters by then. Barring major injuries on their side or major talent on yours, you don't want the gumps in mid-season form.

What happened to Texass' All Big 12 QB when they played 'Bama? Didn't make it past the 2nd Quarter. Hell Lol Miss Beat OSU and Texas Tech and their Pinball QB's in BACK TO BACK JANUARY 1 BOWLS.... BACK TO BACK... Our average defense shut down Collin Kline and knocked the shit out of him all day...Oh and 3-0 vs Texas A&M while mostly slapping their QB's around.

How many year5 did it take 0le Mis5 t0 have tho5e back t0 back 1-1 bowl victorie5? I f0rget.

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DU: Good point on those SEC defenses being awesome. I know guys such as Morgan Newton, Justin Worley and Clint Moseley give defensive coordinators nightmares. Somebody get the Gamecocks a medal for not letting Arkansas score 50 and getting lucky enough to dodge LSU and Alabama on the schedule.

But I'm getting off target here, much like SEC quarterbacks' passes.

What a butthurt little flaggot. Arkansas almost scoring 50 on USCe somehow means that USCe has a bad defense. Really? Could it not mean that Arkansas, who has ravaged every little 12 team they've played the last 3 years, is just very, very good on offense? Of course not. Kansas State...ever heard of them. Man, they have an amazing rushing attack! Until they face a middle-of-the-pack SEC defense.

Really? You're going to bring up 3 bad SEC QB's? Hmmm...are there any bad little 12 QB's? NEVER! They are amazing at everything! Just look at Texas!!! Ooops.

Interviewed David Ubben right before last season. He said that aTm would beat Arkansas, that the Big 12 was just as good as the SEC because they have been to a bunch of title games, too (he actually said that "the only difference is that the SEC has won a few more), and that while the SEC D's may be a little better, the Big 12 O's were so much better that it all evened out.

Think about this -

OUUTMizzouaTm

It's not just that Mizzou is freakishly delusional...it seems to be a thang in that conference.

Interviewed David Ubben right before last season. He said that aTm would beat Arkansas, that the Big 12 was just as good as the SEC because they have been to a bunch of title games, too (he actually said that "the only difference is that the SEC has won a few more), and that while the SEC D's may be a little better, the Big 12 O's were so much better that it all evened out.

Think about this -

OUUTMizzouaTm

It's not just that Mizzou is freakishly delusional...it seems to be a thang in that conference.

Do we, or any one else, really think that this Dave Ubben guy actually believes what he's saying? It's his job as a Big Texas league blogger to pump that league up. It keeps the homers over there happy. I don't think anyone that's actually watched SEC and BigTx football would actually believe it.

I've never seen another fanbase try to get as much mileage from a win as these dipshits do from that cotton bowl. Never mind all the circumstances around that game for us. It would be like hog fans beating their chest about that win over indiana a few years ago in the ncaa tournament. I don't even know any hog fans that feel good about that.

Mizzou will beat Kentucky and possibly aTm next year (in conference) and the Alabama game will be closer than it should have been. Saban and Pinkel were college roommates so Saban won't completely lay the wood to him. Georgia should handle them easily, USC won't have an issue and their DLine will have a hay day with Mizzou's OL. Vandy and Florida will out athlete MU (yeah, Vandy will out athlete).

Per some Mizzou fans I work with they've moved 2 TEs to the DLine and hope to have them bulked up in time for the season. They're also moving Lucas to TE (Lucas isn't happy with current situation at MU....should have gone to Arkansas, guess Mom doesn't always know best). Lucas is 6'5, but needs to put on a lot of weight if he expects to block any SEC DEs.

Mizzou will beat Kentucky and possibly aTm next year (in conference) and the Alabama game will be closer than it should have been. Saban and Pinkel were college roommates so Saban won't completely lay the wood to him. Georgia should handle them easily, USC won't have an issue and their DLine will have a hay day with Mizzou's OL. Vandy and Florida will out athlete MU (yeah, Vandy will out athlete).

Per some Mizzou fans I work with they've moved 2 TEs to the DLine and hope to have them bulked up in time for the season. They're also moving Lucas to TE (Lucas isn't happy with current situation at MU....should have gone to Arkansas, guess Mom doesn't always know best). Lucas is 6'5, but needs to put on a lot of weight if he expects to block any SEC DEs.

Good luck getting past Alabama, Georgia, Florida, or USCe's tackles with converted TEs. Luckily for them, they don't have LSU or us on the schedule.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/38516/introducing-missouri-to-its-new-sec-friendsEA: Travel will be really interesting. Columbia, Mo., is almost 900 miles away from the other Columbia in South Carolina, and Gainesville, Fla., is more than 1,000 miles away. Talk about Delta miles. Missouri won't have to worry about filling opposing fans' ticket allotments, because SEC fans travel well. So when these fans get on campus, what are some of the new traditions they'll be exposed to from the Missouri faithful?

DU: Good question. There are teams with stronger traditions in the Big 12, but Mizzou's are solid.

The most evident one will be the Rock M at the North end of Faurot Field. Every August, Missouri adds a few rocks, and the university's freshmen offer a fresh coat of paint to keep it looking fresh, which it always does.

For the biggest games, the Rock M and the field surrounding it will be packed with fans. Lately, the Tigers have had a few big wins to celebrate with ripped-up goalposts. Wins over Oklahoma and Nebraska come to mind. When that happens, those goalposts are toted up that field and carried almost a mile to Harpo's, a bar downtown, where fans will cut them up and take home a piece.

If Bama goes down in Columbia next season, the Tide fans will see that up close and personal.

During the game, you'll get a taste of the “Missouri Waltz,” which is a pretty recognizable song featuring the fans waving their arms to the music.

They'll also get to meet Truman the Tiger, who treks around the track surrounding the field in a fire truck before the game with a hose to spray fans on hot days.

Faurot Field only seats a little more than 70,000 fans, but it's a solid atmosphere more often than not. It won't wow many folks, but it has a very unique feel, and the stadium is set into the ground, so it feels a little underground, too.

Painted rocks? That's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Mizzou traditions?

The SEC thanks you for that $20k you will donate to the conference when your fans try to storm the field and take down goalposts. The only regret the SEC has is that it will be several years before LOL Mizz comes close to winning a game worthy of taking down goal posts. Does LOL Mizz also come on to the field through a big piece of paper before the game?

A waltz. That's your big thing during a game...a waltz? No wonder the Big12 people are so proud of aTm's stupid traditions...aTm has to be the manliest school in that conference and that is pretty sad considering they are known for things such as grabbing each other's testicles and not having female cheerleaders.

Truman the Tiger...that's a person in a costume right? It has to be, since a real tiger probably couldn't operate a firehouse to spray....hold on what the fuck? Their mascot takes a firehouse and sprays down the fans on a hot day? In Columbia, Mo.? What the fuck are their fans going to do on an afternoon in Gainesville or Oxford or Baton Rouge if they think Columbia is too hot? Is there anything more homoerotic than a man in a tiger suit spraying a bunch of college kids down with a fire hose? What the hell? aTm's traditions are getting more and more normal with the more I read. Oh and by the way...Truman? What the fuck kind of name is that for a mascot? I'm guessing he is named for the former President Truman who is from Missouri...ok fine but for a mascot? Yeah that'd be real cool if we had Clinton that Razorback on the sidelines. That's the best Missouri can come up with to brag about, is that they once had a president from their state?

I swear...the more I read about Mizzou makes me change my mind. I use to be a little concerned they would take from our recruiting just a little. Then I started hating them as I got to know their fans during the recruitment of that WR. Then I started getting excited about them getting the shit kicked out of them by SEC teams all year. Now I almost feel sorry for them because they have no idea what they are getting into. But that sorrow quickly turns back to hate and it just makes me realize I am going to enjoy them getting their asses kicked even more.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 09:30:32 AM by LashHog »

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