Nissan LEAF Slide – 225-Mile Range, $35,000 Price For 60-kWh Version

Sources, including some of our own, had previously let it be known that the upcoming 60-kWh Nissan LEAF would return 225-plus miles of EPA range, but it wasn’t until just recently that we’ve been able to let loose the intel directly from Nissan.

The slide above shows the automaker’s intent with the 2019 LEAF. As you can see, it’ll be positioned range-wise against the likes of the base Tesla Model 3 and the Chevrolet Bolt.

The remaining question is price. While the slide says $35k+, we believe Nissan will undercut both of the listed competitors, if only by a bit.

Previously, Nissan’s executive vice president of global sales and marketing Daniele Schillaci, answered a question regarding range for the 60-kWh LEAF. His response was simply “more than 225 mile range.” He added “EPA” to that response and that’s precisely what we see in the slide.

As for timing for the 2019 LEAF with 225-plus miles of range, that’s anyone’s guess right now. It’s likely a bit further out than we’d like it to be, especially when you consider that the 2018 LEAF still has yet to arrive at dealerships in the U.S.

For now, GM can and should be given some slack. Production ramp up is normal thing and opportunistically targeting palaces with strongest air quality protections and/or rebates to EVs is to be expected.

They (sort of) tried that with the Spark EV…Towards the end of production, they were liquidating them with unbelievable lease deals and was one of the few GM leases to ever offer an unlimited mileage option…

GM EV-ed the ICE Spark, they apparently tried to do the same with the Sonic Hatchback, had that been done it would have been thousands less…

GM developed an entirely new global BEV-specific platform (the BEV-II) for the Bolt and other future compact BEVs (two new Bolt-platform-based CUVs due out in the next 18 months). According to Josh Tavel, the Bolt’s Chief Engineer, the Bolt shares just a handful of parts with the Sonic. They did design the platform to be compatible with much of the same assembly tooling as the Sonic’s Gamma II platform so they could share the same assembly line.

The argument that GM just wants to sell Bolts as compliance cars is completely discounted. GM has set a firm course on ev development and stuck to it. The Bolt was no rush job as it was completely based on the Volt, designed by 2008. I expected the Bolt earlier in fact but the hybrid manufacturing plant was genius and puts Tesla to shame!

GM will continue introducing new ev models and variants at a rate Tesla could only dream of.

You’re making excuses for GM. If they ramp up volume to 100k units next year, only then will the theory die.

As it is, the Bolt looks like a compliance+PR car. Around 80% of US sales are in CARB states. In Europe, virtually no supply of the Ampera-e. In Canada, Quebec gets almost twice as many Bolts as Ontario despite roughly half the auto market, huge demand (long waiting lists), and close proximity to the Michigan plant. Why? Because Quebec has a new ZEV mandate.

The PR is obvious. Ceiling to floor banners of the Bolt being Car of the Year in every dealership, yet no car to test drive (at least in Ontario).

GM knew demand was high well before the first prototype was built, so why would they only plan for 30k production?

Because that’s the useful number for compliance, and possibly that’s all LG would sell to them at a special price. LG also wanted the PR for beating Tesla.

I gauge, GM are going as slowly as necessary to just maintain headway in the EV market. To fail to make some EVs would disappoint banks and financiers and that can include governments.

It is like they say here, GM theoretically could build hangar-loads compared to Tesla. They appear to want to make sure they do not accidentally push Tesla harder.

In other words, the free market is not really working in EV terms. The mainstream auto makers are doing that thing you do with a broom when trying to look busy until quitting time with the boss hanging around a lot.

Sure, you have the appearance of working, but nobody really believes you are making any productive contribution to the overall enterprise by scraping the broom around the floor a bit.

Look around the mainstream big names of the auto industry – leaning on sweeping brooms the whole lot of them, if Elon Musk would kindly die on a mission to Mars, they can sigh with relief and sabotage the whole electric malarkey with much more efficiency.

These leopards have not yet changed their spots, not yet irreversibly committed to EV-only. The Old Guard will have to be ousted for that to happen.

But the Leaf has a heat pump, right? In that case you could split it nicely saying Bolt for warm climates, Leaf for cold ones. Frankly I’m not desperate for battery cooling, as long as the car can still charge at a decent rate after a few hours on the highway. If it gets as bad as the e-Golf, down below 20 kW even in cold weather (see Bjorn’s video) then I’m with you: bring on the liquid cooling!

So if Nissan delivers this 60 kWh Leaf in a year, it is only a little more than 2 years behind the launch of the (LG Chem inside) Chevy Bolt.
The (LG Chem inside) Nissan Leaf with a 60kWh battery, should be less expensive than the Bolt. If it runs above 35k, Tesla will have a hard time keeping up with new demand for the Base Model 3, when the existing orders are filled some time next year.

Range & price aren’t the only two considerations. In Most of the world, unlike the US, households have only one car.

I know several people for whom (like myself) the Model 3’s being a sedan rather than 2-box hatch is a dealbreaker… And one with a small, very awkwardly positioned trunk to boot (pun intended). (The cargo volume Tesla quotes includes the frunk, so the actual trunk is far smaller than typical for the midsize category, and so less usable.

Better late than never, but if it doesn’t have a temperature conditioned battery its up for grabs its performance/longevity in extreme weather.
Buyers will want to peruse the warranty very carefully.

I lost interest in the initial leaf since the battery warranty on the leaf initially at least, was basically non-existent. If you carefully read the agreement – Nissan wasn’t legally responsible for anything.

I was going to get the $12,000 free replacement warranty with my Roadster, but complained that the warranty put all the responsibility on me and Tesla had to do essentially nothing.

The Tesla Rep HAD THEIR LEGAL DEPT REWRITE THE AGREEMENT (!!!). But it still wasn’t attractive enough for me so I never took it.

I mention this to say its not just one company that you have to watch the wording of the warranty.

You didn’t need to read the agreement carefully when buying the 2011/12 LEAF’s. The terms were clearly communicated, then you were asked to sign the document they had just explained. It was very very clear you had no coverage if the battery pack wears out.

They’ve since added a capacity warranty (even retroactively) but it wasn’t the most generous warranty. Since the 30kWh LEAF was introduced the warranty is at least decent, there is coverage up to 100,000 miles now.

Right… DC quick charging charges at 400-500 volts and 95 amps. 46,000 watts.
There’s absolutely no way that going from 6.6kW to 11kW charging would matter to the battery. There are people who have added additional chargers on board and charge at 14kW.
Now, going to 11kW charging has the problem of being 45A at 240V so you can’t plug that EVSE into a 14-50 plug, you’d have to pull larger wire and have a higher amperage breaker. I’m already at 6AWG Romex, 50A breaker. I can safely charge up to 9.6kW.

What advantage does 3 phase charging offer? Wouldn’t you have to go to a new connector to get 3 phase charging? The J1772 only has 3 pins for the main charging current and 1 is ground.
Also, where are you going to charge with 3 phase power? You don’t have 3 phase in residential applications.

In many countries in Europe you are not allowed to draw more than 25A from a single phase at home. And a common main circuit breaker for a home in 3x32A. So even if in your country it is legal to draw more you are done at 32A.
The car manufacturers have to offer cars with local onboard chargers. Like Tesla, in US you get a 10kW on board charger (240V 40A) but in Europe you will get a 11kW 3-phase onboard charger (3x230V 16A) and 22kW (3x230V 32A) used to be optional.

T-R 73.2 % increase. If Wiki says 71% that is a pretty good percentage error. Example: 1 ampere of 480 volt 3 phase power will give you 831.4 watts. 1 ampere of single phase 480 volt power will give you 480 watts.

TYLER you are quite correct that 3-phase offers no advantages TO THE CAR CHARGING operation.

Unfortunately, In the states single phase limitations are in the 200-800 ampere range, with a broad limitation average of being 75-100 kw. This is right around the power level where it becomes more economic for the Utility to supply 3 phase power anyway.

In Europe the limitations are 32 amperes for the UK and some of the NW Euro countries, to 15 amperes for Italy and Switzerland to 20 amperes for Germany. They tolerated single-phase charging of the Roadster but when the “S” was released Europeans in general said ‘enough is enough’, and Tesla capitulated and came out with 3 phase chargers in the car and 3 phase cord sets to satisfy the Euro objections.

But the battery doesn’t care, since all bolts, volts, and ampera’s charge only at single phase no matter where they are.

If you are looking for a ‘fast dc charger’ for your house, BOSCH makes a single phase (190-250 volt) 25 kw output charger that used to be around $7000 but they may have come down on the price a bit. Of course, this may be ‘adjusted’ down to 10 kw if you don’t need quite 25 kw, or your home currently withstand the strain.

Single phase requires 4 wires, L1, L2, Neutral and ground… unless you hard wire it. 3 phase would be 4 wires too L1, L2, L3 and ground.
I understand that 3 phase is more efficient, but I don’t see how that comes into play when charging a battery. I didn’t know homes had 3 phase in Europe. Tesla offers cars with dial on board chargers and people hook up the Tesla high power charger at home to a 100A circuit.

There’s another CHAdeMO home charger out there…I can’t remember the manufacturer but it requires a 100A circuit. It delivers up to 40A@500V.

I believe single phase only needs 3 wires; L1, L2 and ground. Our plug in EVSE came with a Nema 6-50 plug. No neutral. The 14-50 plug is more popular but the neutral is not used. The units have no need for 110v internally.

Correct, but if you’re wiring an outlet, the neutral has to be provided per the NEC.
Why more manufacturers don’t offer their EVSE with a 6-50 plug, I don’t know. Mine has a 14-50 plug so I installed it properly and up to code.
Can you install a 14-50 outlet with no neutral and have it work for your EVSE? Sure. What happens when someone plugs an RV into that outlet down the road and there’s no neutral?

Tyler u are doing an apples and oranges comparison. Three phase in the general case requires an extra wire – and the ‘leg’ wires (sometimes called ‘phase’ wires) are the expensive ones to provide since they have to be provided each from a differing source, and have to have overcurrent protection and switching.

If you are comparing 4 wires on a single phase circuit, (say you need to run a table lamp), then in the 3 phase case you need to run 5 wires. But the utility has to run TWO more wires (triple the amount) since they have to insulate, switch, and provide overcurrent protection for 3 times as many wires in most cases. In Rural areas they only have to run 1 additional ‘expensive’ wire.

I’ve said this plenty of times here and elsewhere: the car battery doesn’t really care what you use. So I don’t see the conundrum.

If you were supplying one 120V or 277V single phase light circuit you’d have L, N and ground. If you were doing one circuit for 208V or 480V lighting you’d have L1, L2 and ground… Still single phase. If it were a shared neutral multi branch you’d have 5 wires in 3 phase or 4 wires in a single phase panel. Not really sure why we got into lighting when we’re talking about car charging…?

There’s no problem, I was just curious about if there were an advantage to 3 phase charging. Someone else brought up the number of wires. To my knowledge, all 3 phase plugs only have 4 wires. I’ve never seen a 3 phase plug with a neutral. I’d think a high current 3 phase EVSE would be most likely hard wired though.

NOT TRUE. A neutral has to appear at light switches, but only if the lights are 120 or 277 volts. 208 volt, 240 volt, and 480 volt lights are not legally required to have a neutral anywhere associated with them.

For that price, if they do an active thermal management and 60kWh, I will be buying a 2019 Leaf. I love my 2016, I just wish it had more range and active thermal management. That battery gets hot sometimes!

I’d really bet Nissan’s 60 kWh pack will have active liquid-cooling. The engineers would have to suspend reality or have some really secret ultra-high temperature cell material to not actively-cool a pack that big.

To handle the 50-60 kW charge rates required to be competitive with the Bolt & Model 3 and put it in a compact battery package, the Leaf 60 kWh pack will have to have active thermal management to not cook the cells. Air cooling or natural-cooling just won’t work when you have 3-4 kW of continuous heat building up in the pack.

Is this really news? I notice the Tesla M3 is listed as Q2 2017, which makes this slide look very old.

Although the range is competitive, the HP rating is far below and I have trouble seeing how this Leaf (and I am a current happy leaf owner), or the Bolt, is competitive with the M3, except for availability and a greater stock of tax credits may be Nissan’s ace in the hole.

Nonetheless, I look forward to a healthy stock of 2 and 3 year lease returns on the used market just when my leaf needs replacing.

It’s competitive with the model 3 because a base model Leaf still has heated seats and steering wheel. Tesla charges $3500 for that. By the time the model 3 is spec’d the way I’d order it is a $55,000 car. If I were going to spend that, I’d buy a used model S with a larger battery and auto pilot.
You should be able to get a top trim leaf for about $40,000.

For the 2018, Nissan has removed some of those nice standard features. On the Leaf S, Heated seats are in the all weather package for another $450 and the charge package is another $1590. The SV still charges another $900 for the weather package since it also has the hybrid heater. I guess they had to cut corners to keep the base prices near $30k. However, its advantage is still going to be price with the tax credit and availability. Either way, used is still the better buy of course. I think in a few years we are going to have a lot of great choices.

Tesla still charges more for the base model and charges 5X as much for the all weather package. Where Nissan is still failing is in the air cooled battery and charging infrastructure.
Don’t get me wrong, Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead in a lot of areas, but a $32,000 car that does all the same things as a $40,000 car (and will probably still have a tax incentive on it. Where the $40,000 car won’t at this point.) Is going to be competitive still.