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Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

They may out play us, they may win a series against us and they certainly get all of the calls against us but no one can say that our Indiana Pacers are afraid of the Miami Heat.

Call it familiarity, call it contempt or just call it we match up pretty well against them but one way or the other they no longer hold the aura of conquering warriors to us.

It’s just a win and will count no more in the standings than any other win will at the end of the regular season but with future playoff implications in mind I think it does say that if the Heat & Pacers play again in the playoffs the Heat will not walk away unscathed if they walk away at all.

I’ll give David West his props later in the grade section but I would be remiss if I didn’t at least mention right here & right now that he was a human Juggernaut tonight and nobody was going to stop him and God knows they tried everything and everyone to do so including what I consider almost a mugging by Shane Battier. So even though I’m going to talk about a couple of other players here understand I place David West first and foremost as the reason we won this game.

But because everybody knows how good he did & there have been lots of articles already written about it I want to focus here on a couple of other players who IMO were very instrumental in this victory.

Lance Stephenson is in the head’s of the Miami Heat. Yes this has the potential to backfire and blow up in our faces but for tonight anyway it blew up all over the Heat and frankly was fun to watch. Just on a physical level Lance now matches up very well vs. Dwayne Wade & IMO for the most part all game out played him. He’s a little taller than Wade, he might even be stronger than Wade which is something that Dwayne is not used to facing at the two position and most shockingly for Wade he is faster than him. In fact Wade used to be called the flash but watching him go against Lance it looks more like he needs some geritol as he is left in the dust.

Lance is not afraid to take it at Wade & then on defense he actually can not only stay with him but because of his arm length he both affects his shot and often causes him to pass wide to avoid Lance’s hands.

But I think the most impressive thing was on defense when Wade would make it into the paint area and Lance was still in front of him not once did he bite on a Dwayne Wade pump fake and stood his ground causing great consternation for Wade and on more than one occasion forcing a bad pass late in the shot clock.

Also while I know that it is immature and we don’t want this to be too much of a habit I love the fact that Lance does not bow at the feet of or idolize either Wade or James.
This truly bothers them btw and I mean it really bothers them.

With LeBron he is not used to everyone not sucking up to him and trying to be his best friend. This btw is an old Michael Jordan trick that he was famous for. He would go out of his way to befriend the star player of the other team if he could and then they would not go at him as hard on the court. Many people over the years have said this was part of the problem with both Barkley & Ewing was that they couldn’t see Michael was trying to take them out of their game.

There was one player that Michael never made friends with and there was one player who was not afraid to go at him. Yes every Pacers fan knows his name and we see his jersey hanging in the rafters.

Lance isn’t anywhere like that but in some ways it’s all the same, Lance has nothing compelling him not to take it at those two each and every game and frankly I think it takes them out of their game. Also its not like he’s a scrub who’s sitting on the bench not playing like he did last year, he did this while dropping 15 on them and just suffocating Wade with defense. He seemed to take it a little easier on Allen the few times he was rotated on him but I think that is more because he looks at him like a Grandpa figure.

Okay I won’t lie either, I hate Wade. I didn’t used to but these past two years he has turned into a whiney little runt who looks to the referees each and every time he has the ball. Way to often they reward his whining with free throws so that gets under my skin as well. So I won’t deny that Lance giving him an earful while beating them on the court gives me great pleasure.

So in honor of all Pacers fans who have suffered under the oppressive thumb of Dwayne Wade I say thank you Lance Stephenson you and your potty mouth are doing God’s work.

Next player who is not getting nearly enough accolades for his contributions is Tyler “wrecking ball” Hansbrough.

When Frank took out West mid way through the first quarter I was gritting my teeth cursing that once again Frank was using the damned bench when things were balancing on a precipice.

But Tyler not only made me eat my words he made Rashard Lewis eat his elbows and armpits. The Lewis experiment lasted a whole 1:40 and then it was time to bring in Shane “the molester” Battier. They might as well have given Shane his old Duke uniform because Tyler just proceeded to light him up like it was an old ACC game.

On defense he was right in their jerseys and he knocked the tattoos off of the Bird Man as he drove to the basket. To Bird Man’s credit he hit the shot but believe me he felt that and will still be feeling it tomorrow. Also Tyler was very engaged in this game, when he came to the bench he was as animated as I’ve ever seen him and was hitting high fives with everyone & he about dislocated George Hill’s shoulder if not actually ripping off his arm when they clapped hands.

I’m telling you to have your starting power forward destroy them and then have his backup come in and not let down at all is more than an advantage, that’s winning basketball right there and it was something that was missing during our playoff run last season.

I’ll be brief in my praise for Frank but I just won’t fee right not talking about him. First I am always reminded of a conversation I had with a former member of PS&E when Frank first took over the team. He told me that down towards the end of that season that the entire sales staff was summoned to a meeting with Frank Vogel, which he thought was odd. He said that they all set through a session complete with power points and video of how Frank had a plan to beat the Miami Heat when the met in the playoffs. He said he had charts laid out and pointed out weaknesses on both teams that should be exploited. Of course we ended up playing the Bulls that year so it was a moot point. But I have always wondered if Frank being prepared back then hasn’t helped them each and every game we play them to get better and better to the point now that we have no fear of them.

Second why we haven’t talked about this more before now is beyond me. After struggling for a couple of games out west Frank Vogel has a long meeting with Lance Stephenson. Does he yell at him? Does he belittle him? Does he just relegate him to the bench?

No to all three, instead of berating him he tells him how valuable he has been to the team and how badly the team needs him. Lo & behold Lance responds with arguably the best stretch of games of his young career.

I don’t know that anything else really needs to be said about that as it speaks for itself.

I know this; Slick is in another level and will always be. He’s a legend a champion and frankly to anybody who is above the age of 30 who has lived in Indiana he is Mr. Pacer basketball. I’m not sure Frank can ever reach that height and it’s unfair to ever ask him to.

But everyone else? Honestly I don’t know that we have ever had a better overall coach. As I’ve said before he is not the tactician that Brown or Carlisle was and he doesn’t command the respect from the players that Bird does but he is a better tactician than Bird and he has earned both the respect and admiration of the player that neither Brown nor Carlisle had.

We truly are blessed to have one of the best coaches in the NBA.

Also can we talk draft value for a min? Our starting shooting guard who IMO outplayed their starting shooting guard was a second round pick, his backup who came in and gave you a few quality min. even though he is a rookie was also drafted in the 2nd round. Roy Hibbert was a low first round pick & Tyler was a late lottery pick. Only our star player was picked in the top 10 and he was number 10. I’m not looking at where players on our team were drafted by other teams just ours. But really look at the value we are getting for modest investment. If you draft with purpose and do your homework you can get good players outside the lottery.

Okay let’s do some grades.

David West: A++

B.A.M.F. to the extreme. There was not one weak part to his game tonight; he was efficient from the floor hitting 12-15 shots and all 6 of his free throws. He would have had a couple more assists if Hibbert didn’t bobble an easy dunk and Lance lose a perfectly thrown pass. But most impressive was the fact that even though he was very active on the defensive end he did not have one single foul called on him and he never turned the ball over. What we witnessed this night was not so much a good basketball game but a symphony put on by a maestro. Whatever accolades you want to heap on him for this game add two more and call it a night because this was as perfect a game as you will ever see.

Paul George: B+

BTW that is not a bad grade, not by a long shot when you are guarding the best player in the world. He had several impressive shots from the floor and as always he was a disruptor on the defensive end. The Heat were keying on him defensively and making it hard for him to dribble but for the most part he was able to handle it and he was responsible for probably the most important play of the game when in the 4th quarter he dove to the ground and somehow managed to throw the ball out around Wade to a sprinting Lance Stephenson for a momentum crushing fast break layup.

Roy Hibbert: C-

Tale of two halves basically. First half was an F and he was all but useless out there. Second half was much more productive and in fact for about 5 min. I actually remembered that he was 7’2” on the offensive end as he actually dunked the ball. He didn’t get an A for that second half but I’m feeling generous and will round this up to a C- for him.

Lance Stephenson: A

I’ve already given him his accolades above but it’s worth mentioning Dude hit 2-3 from downtown on the Heat. If anyone had said that we would win the season series vs. the Heat and Lance Stephenson would be a large part of the reason why we would have had them committed. I only pray that he can continue this when he goes to the 6th man role.
George Hill: B-

Hit a couple of big momentum killing three point shots tonight. Played decent defense vs. Chalmers not letting him get to where he wanted on the floor except for a couple of occasions. I really am concerned about his shoulder though, I love George but I’ll just say sometimes he seems a little to comfortable sitting out a game or two here or there. We really need him on Monday vs. the Bulls.

Tyler Hansbrough: A

Pretty much said it all above but I’ll just say they had no one on their bench that seemed to have any ability to match up with Tyler. Which makes me wonder why don’t they use Anthony anymore? He was a factor last year in the playoffs against us.

Orlando Johnson: B

Pure, that is the only thing I can think of to describe his shot. I can envision this guy actually working his way into being a solid rotational player in the next couple of years. Again more praise for Frank, using the Mad Ants to get him some time on the floor has IMO already paid dividends.

Ian Mahinmi: B-

The Heat don’t have a single decent center on their team, we have two. This wasn’t Ian’s strongest game but still you can see his value when we play the Heat as he is just bigger and more athletic than any of their big men. I always poo poo’d the idea that Ian would be that much different than Lou but that lasted till I saw him in the first pre-season game. Now I believe if we face the Heat in the playoffs Ian is going to be one of the strongest assets we have.

D.J. Augustine: C+

In the battle of backup point guards he won. Norris Cole did absolutely nothing. DJ didn’t do much more but he did hit a huge 3 point shot and didn’t totally suck. This is already a vast improvement from earlier this season. He at least hit his technical foul shot which is something that George failed to do earlier.

Sam Young: C

Do not underestimate how big it was for Sam to dribble the length of the court, get trapped in a corner and have the vision and presence of mind to hit Tyler Hansbrough for a wide open dunk. Every time the Heat made a run we had an answer and Sam helped in that cause. He did his job tonight and he will get back into the flow of the offense sooner rather than later. In fact with Sam coming back and Danny soon to return I just wonder if Gerald Green will ever get significant min. again this season? He could suppose but somebody in front of him is going to have to slip.

Enough of this bloviating, it’s time to dance.

Here is a special message for Dwayne Wade and the rest of the heat.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

Peck, once again your distaste for non-physical big man let's you be way to harsh on Hibbert (I remember you calling Smits soft until we actually had a meal and they were playing a re-run of a game v knicks I believe and you saw how physical Smits actually was.
I have a feeling the same is happening here, I watched the game twice just to make sure not to make a fool of myself but I noticed a few

Bosh scored once all game while Hibbert was in. the rest including his 5 min stretch came v Ian,

Hibbert was at the very least double teamed all game, though more often tripled, reason West got so many open and uncontested shots, They were all hanging on Hibbert.

With Hibbert in the game (and this is normal in all games) dribble penetrations is nearly non-existent, there's a reason for that, it's him.
Until Bosh had his 5 minutes going 4 - 4 he was 1 - 7 his 4 - 4 thereafter came against Ian, and Hibbert came in and Bosh was never heard of the rest of the game

A lot of shots we get are there because most teams we play feel they need at least 2 defenders on Hibbert, so they're a man short on the shot covers.
I know he misses bunnies, but most of the time he picks them up and still makes them, tips are counted and in all honesty I think that is silly, tips are usually contested and in the mix with 3 or 4 other players, it's not like going up all alone, having time to A: time the tip and B: aim the tip instead you have 3 guys jumping in on you whilst trying to tip a ball back in the net.
Finally he gets fouled a lot that is not called, they allow him going up but they also ignore a whole load of holding, boxing grabbing pushing and other stuff that could so easily be called.

He really does a lot more and means a lot more to the team than your grades make it out to be.

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

Peck, all points well taken. But with all due respect, one of the things I was looking forward to most during the game was your impending paean to the bandwagon Heat fans making their attendance known, and I feel your Odd Thoughts tho morning is somehow incomplete without at least a couple of lines from you in their honour.

"I mean, you'd walk into our dressing room and run into Mel Daniels holding a .45 -- it makes you wonder."

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Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

So I wonít deny that Lance giving him an earful while beating them on the court gives me great pleasure.

So in honor of all Pacers fans who have suffered under the oppressive thumb of Dwayne Wade I say thank you Lance Stephenson you and your potty mouth are doing Godís work.

Peck, can you or someone give some details? You must have seen and heard a lot more than we could watching on TV. I saw Lance slap the ball out of Lebron's hands while he complaining and delaying our fast break (which pi$$ed off the chosen one), but that was about it.

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"I like our group of people," Ainge told USA Today. "I'm trying to teach them about basketball, and they're trying to teach me about analytics."

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Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

Great write per usual Peck.

I wanted to evaluate this game sort of backwards by actually evaluating the Heat's performance, but real quick wanted to back up what Able said about Roy. He's exactly right. Roy defensively tonight was just killer. It won't show in the numbers. But every dribble penetration was stopped by him. Everyone. It's really incredible. I mean Roy is one of the slowest players on the court, so for him to do so good with his help defense and his rotations means he has to see plays happen before they actually happen if that makes sense. He's so good at it. He's truly an elite defensive presence. He's getting so good that I think his shot blocking is actually going down, because rarely do opponents have good looks at the rim. (the Tyson Chandler effect, one of the reasons he never gets block shots). Roy wasn't the best rebounder, but defensively tonight I thought he was stunning. Maybe I'm wrong but maybe someone else can enlighten all of us. Anywho-

So I wanted to talk about the Heat specifically because I don't think they're the same team as they were last year. They seem good defensively but not the type of defense that they're capable of. I think the Heat should be elite defending. And they're simply poor rebounding the ball. Doesn't matter how good your best player is, if you don't rebound the ball, and you don't play defense, you're going to struggle against some good teams. It's one of the reasons I think the Heat went from having a relatively good matchup against the Pacers last year, to having a horrible matchup with them this year. I think the Heat can fix some of their problems, so it won't be the same in the playoffs but as of right now, the Pacers are a nightmare matchup. Great defense with strong rebounding is a recipe for disaster for them.

I think it is worth noting, that one of the reasons why you never put too much faith in a single victory is that you don't always see the same team every game. It's a long season and teams go into funks. When the Pacers lost to the Jazz a week ago, it didn't mean the Jazz out played them. More of the reason was the Pacers just played some bad ball.

Well I think there is something to that with the Heat tonight. I mean the Pacers did play outstanding ball for sure, but the Heat really struggled in some areas that they won't in the future. Their three point shooting for instance. While most of the night the Pacers did a good job limiting open looks, (the Heat only got 14 shots up, and a couple of those were late clock situations), of the 12 looks the Heat did have, I think they were some really good looks. Some really good looks the Heat didn't convert. Ray Allen missed at least one WIDE OPEN three that he just won't miss in the future. And Shane had a couple looks that I thought normally he'd make. I'm simply saying that could easily be the difference in 6 additional points for the Heat and that really is a huge difference.

Moving on, I don't think the Heat did a good enough job getting Bosh involved. He can stretch the defense, and make slower defenders like West and Roy pay. Again, in the future, I don't think the Heat will make that mistake again. Bosh will have much more opportunities in the PnR, as well as opportunities to really stretch the defense and take West/Roy out of their comfort zone.

I'd love to hear the defensive numbers of the heat with Joel Anthony on the court versus him off from last season. Maybe I'm wrong, but on the court I think he makes them much better. He's a stud shot blocker, and although not the best rebounder, it doesn't matter as much because he seems to do an excellent job defensively. Yet this season he isn't given a chance to play. I think they're making a mistake.

Right now, the heat aren't where they should be on defense because they have an undersized PF and an undersized center. I think this is why they're not playing the elite ball they are capable of. Are they winning a lot? Sure but they appear to have a lot more weaknesses on this years team. If they don't fix that? Then even if they do make it out of the East, (which I wouldn't bet on under any circumstances) they'll get crushed by whatever team comes out of the West. Again, I don't think the Heat are the same team as they were last year. The nice thing for them is during the season you can really work at fixing your problems and by the time the playoffs come around, you can fix some of those problems. I think there is a good chance that the Heat can do that, but as of right now? Not so sure I consider them as good as the Spurs, OKC and the Clippers. Note- this is recognizing that they are still the favorites out of the East, but I think this has to do with the relative weakness of the East versus the greatness of Miami.

With all that, I think what I'm really getting at is the Heat aren't playing the best ball recently, and the season on the whole they aren't exactly playing the ball that they are capable of. Come playoff time they will have probably made the necessary adjustments so we must be aware of that.

Edit - I don't know why I can't just write a couple sentences in a response like normal people. ^All that^ Yeesh.

Last edited by mattie; 02-02-2013 at 07:29 AM.

Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

Read it and weep:

When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

Now that I've finished my relentless ramblings on the Heat, I wanted to talk about the Pacers.

I believe the Pacers are a horrible matchup to the Heat this year mainly for two reasons: While virtually equal in talent to last year's team, the difference is this team has a truly GREAT defense. World class. I love defense because if you play great defense, at any point you can beat any team. Put it this way- The last team any of the top contenders want to face this year is Indiana or Memphis. They'll lock you up, and if they get hot enough offensively, they're going to win and there is nothing you can do about it.

The second reason is David West. I was so disappointed with West last year during the playoffs because despite the fact that he played "good" statistically, I didn't feel he played well at all. The reason I felt so strongly about this is I don't think there is anybody outside of LBJ and possibly Joel Anthony that have any business defending West. Haslem is a strong defender but he's too small. Battier should get beat like a rented mule by West. This game we showed why Indiana will cause a ton of problems for the Heat if they meet in the playoffs. West will absolutely abuse their frontline. ANd that is what is so important in playoff games is taking advantage of matchups. West has shown that he's now fully healthy, and if you give him a bad matchup? He'll crush you.

Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

Read it and weep:

When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

as good as it is to beat the Heat on any given night - I still can't call these victories as a measuring stick - we all know come playoff time, their game plan will pretty much switch to a two-man team of LeBron and Wade. Our defense is still showing the weakness signs when these two decide to go for their floaters which are pretty hard to guard on any circumstances.

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

Peck, once again your distaste for non-physical big man let's you be way to harsh on Hibbert (I remember you calling Smits soft until we actually had a meal and they were playing a re-run of a game v knicks I believe and you saw how physical Smits actually was.
I have a feeling the same is happening here, I watched the game twice just to make sure not to make a fool of myself but I noticed a few

Bosh scored once all game while Hibbert was in. the rest including his 5 min stretch came v Ian,

Hibbert was at the very least double teamed all game, though more often tripled, reason West got so many open and uncontested shots, They were all hanging on Hibbert.

With Hibbert in the game (and this is normal in all games) dribble penetrations is nearly non-existent, there's a reason for that, it's him.
Until Bosh had his 5 minutes going 4 - 4 he was 1 - 7 his 4 - 4 thereafter came against Ian, and Hibbert came in and Bosh was never heard of the rest of the game

A lot of shots we get are there because most teams we play feel they need at least 2 defenders on Hibbert, so they're a man short on the shot covers.
I know he misses bunnies, but most of the time he picks them up and still makes them, tips are counted and in all honesty I think that is silly, tips are usually contested and in the mix with 3 or 4 other players, it's not like going up all alone, having time to A: time the tip and B: aim the tip instead you have 3 guys jumping in on you whilst trying to tip a ball back in the net.
Finally he gets fouled a lot that is not called, they allow him going up but they also ignore a whole load of holding, boxing grabbing pushing and other stuff that could so easily be called.

He really does a lot more and means a lot more to the team than your grades make it out to be.

Look, he offers a lot defensively. That has been said a lot of times and is a reason why he saves some face this season. But a lot sound like excuses. Contested tips? Don't know about that. Of course some of them are gonna be difficult but some of them have also been ridiculously easy for a 7"2 center to miss them. Plus he has been right under the basket attempting those. Regarding the double teams. Can't recall many of them from last night tbh but again does not excuse his game on the offensive end all season long and the first half of yesterday's match. He was much much better during the second half though where he grabbed his whole points and rebounds.
Yeap, he had that much of a great game in the first half where he had a big fat zero in every stat line bar one foul and one turnover....

Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

A glorious, glorious win. And a glorious write up. Shut down the Star and print this instead.

I don't post much after games as I'm pretty sure that Peck will say what I was meaning to say, only better. Great to read after victories and a million times better than reading national media after we lose.

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

. . . Moving on, I don't think the Heat did a good enough job getting Bosh involved. He can stretch the defense, and make slower defenders like West and Roy pay. Again, in the future, I don't think the Heat will make that mistake again. Bosh will have much more opportunities in the PnR, as well as opportunities to really stretch the defense and take West/Roy out of their comfort zone. . .

Give this one to Frank and a very simple, very slick piece of coaching. At the start of the game, Miami came out playing well. Roy had a lot of trouble covering Bosh and was giving up warmup jump shots to Bosh and was being pulled out from under the basket and wasn't being a force on defense. Frank called a time out, switched David to Bosh and Roy to Haslem. Problem solved. Giving up those jump shots to Haslem was OK. He can't shoot. David can guard Bosh in the post or on the floor. Problem solved. Roy can stay under the basket and clog the paint on defense. Problem solved.

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Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

I posted elsewhere last night and am stilling wondering why Mia. didn't move James to the 4 to slow West down. Anthony could have helped but maybe he's hurt? Lebron IMO is the only player the Heat have who is strong enough and quick enough to guard West when he's on a roll. Would cause the Heat some other problems(PG) but I kept expecting it, and it never happened.

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Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

I think Rose will be terrified to play his game against us. A lot of Pacers fans love to complain about the calls Rose got in that 2011 series, but they were legit calls probably 90% of the time. Couldn't stay in front of him, he attacked, he got hit. That's good basketball by Rose.

Now he's got the knee and a very much improved perimeter defense to contend with.

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

Do not underestimate how big it was for Sam to dribble the length of the court, get trapped in a corner and have the vision and presence of mind to hit Tyler Hansbrough for a wide open dunk. Every time the Heat made a run we had an answer and Sam helped in that cause. He did his job tonight and he will get back into the flow of the offense sooner rather than later. In fact with Sam coming back and Danny soon to return I just wonder if Gerald Green will ever get significant min. again this season? He could suppose but somebody in front of him is going to have to slip.

I couldn't believe it when I saw Sam dribble into the corner while getting trapped... then I was even more amazed when he found Tyler. I thought that was huge (although I'm still not a fan of going to the corner while getting trapped).

Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

I say this in complete honesty, I think Miami is much more scared of us than we are of them.

Idk that it's fear as much as they really just don't like playing us. The games are always chippy and physical, and outside of game 5 in the playoffs last year, we always play them close. They don't like our bravado and confidence because in their eyes, we shouldn't match up to them talent wise.

In their eyes we shouldn't be able to hang with them so consistently, yet through sheer competitivness and physicality, we do more often than not.