May 6, 2006

Orthogonal at DailyKos says so. "The Democratic Party needs to show it's different, that it's not a club of the elite taking care of the elite." The idea is that Kennedy should quit for the good of the party. Memeorandum collects links to Orthogonal's post. Lots of Democrats -- unsurprisingly -- disagree. Aside from what is good for his party, shouldn't Kennedy resign out of simple unfitness to serve?

Kennedy did kill Mary Jo Kopechne. He got away with it because he is rich and powerful. Suppose someone killed your daughter or your mother exactly the same way. Should they get away without repercussions? Should they be imprisoned? Should they pay a fine? Should they pay you for your loss? And what would you call what they did?

Yes, he should resign;No, he will probably not resign; Yes, he should be voted out of office;No, he will probably not be; Yes, Ted Kennedy is a murderer, not a manslaughterer (extremely reckless disregard for the value of human life = malice).No, it is not inapproriate to bring that up. It is a disgrace to the US Senate and a disgrace to the country that he has held public office for as long as he has.{/rant}

The Kennedy clan is as big a bunch of misfits as I have ever seen outside a televison series. the fact that they keep getting reelected despite their drinking, drug abuse, danger to women, and weaknesses that leave them open to exploitation by predatory political activists speaks volumes about Democrats on the east coast.

The difference in how the Dems handle this fiasco and how they handled the Limbaugh debacle is strictly party politics. Except Limbaugh is not a politician!

By the way, what is the penalty for claiming a late night vote get-out-of-jail-free card when it is not true? How convenient this constitutional clause is to protect substance abusers and Kennedys.

Pathetic example of leadership and what a fine example for young people to emulate!

Sippican -- You are eminently reasonable, always. I didn't mean to sound full of invective. I guess I have, at least to you. I apologize.

Let's not use your daughter or mother. Let's use me. When I was 16, I was driving a car down a road at night. A possum was in the road. I swerved the car, and we went off the road, turning the car on its side in a creek. My friend and I were wearing seatbelts (thank God, my friend had just put his on). We walked away.

Had my friend died in that crash, and he very well could have, it is very likely that I almost cedrtainly would have faced manslaughter charges. That may be just or unjust, but it's true. It happens all the time.

Why didn't Kennedy face charges? Shouldn't he have? Wasn't what he did a serious crime? If my accident had caused my friend to die, would I have been a murderer?

The unfortunate accident involving Cheney would not have occured if the person who was shot had stayed behind the fire line instead of wandering into the line of fire. His actions almost caused his death.

When you go hunting you had best follow the rules! If you don't, you pay the price.

Had Cheney killed that guy, the left would be howling. And there would be a good argument that he should face manslughter or murder charges.

The point here, broadly, is that our politicians and famous people should face exactly the same justice as others, no better (like any Kennedy) or worse (like Limbaugh). It goes without saying that our justice system should also be fair and just for everyone.

By the way, any person with a sense of decency would resign in Patrick Kennedy's situation.

Seven Machos: You said that "any person with a sense of decency would resign in Patrick Kennedy's situation."

True. But, you know, in times of desperation ordinary men can become extraordinarily selfish. So we really can't blame him. Just imagine the mess this guy would become if unrestrained by the expectation he'll show up for work in the morning.

And, after all, we can't really expect him to work an ordinary job, now can we?

The unfortunate accident involving Cheney would not have occured if the person who was shot had stayed behind the fire line instead of wandering into the line of fire. His actions almost caused his death.

The person pulling the trigger -- Cheney -- is responsible for everything in his (her) line of sight. That is basic hunting safety.

Should Patches resign? Has he been charged with anything? If he had not had the accident, and just gone off to rehab, should he resign then? Is he being pressured to resign because of being a member of the Bob Kasten School of Driving and crashing, or because he's hooked on pills?

Ultimately, it is up to the voters of RI, and whomever is paying them to vote.

"Should NIXON resign? Has he been charged with anything? If he had not had the WATERGATE BREAK-IN, and just gone ON TO MAUL GOLDWATER IN THE ELEXTION, should he resign then? Is he being pressured to resign because of HAVING KNOWLEDGE OF THE BREAK-IN, or because he's A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT DESPISED BY THE ELITE?

Ultimately, it is up to the voters of THE USA, and whomever is paying them to vote."

You strike me as someone who will go to great lengths to defend people you consider on your side, but will find all manner of flaws in people you perceive as "against your side."

Again, has Patches been charged with anything? Will he be? If a charge was imminent, and he was told the party would not support him, that would be a parallel to Nixon's resignation before impeachment because the party was no longer supporting him.

I wonder if this brouhaha would be so at-full-boil for any other member of the house? If Tammy Baldwin had done this, or Stephen Lynch, or anyone without a famous surname, what would be happening?

As a former Rhode Islander who lived in the other district (South County), I always wondered how Patches could be elected. He has absolutely no gravitas.

I've despised the entire Kennedy Clan for decades, but I have to say, Teddy has provided an excellent example of how to just ignore ones critics and continue to do what one wants. In my far from blameless life, I've found that to be a useful example. And of course, I've never respected those who let me get away with it. Sounds to me like he has served as the same example for his spawn.

I brought up Watergate when it was suggested that voters should decide whether Patrick Kennedy keeps his job or not. I asked why Nixon didn't keep his after winning a landslide election. It was a rhetorical question designed to suggest that people might be viewing this thing through a prism of political subjectivity (something you do pretty much all the time). I am confident most people understood the meaning.

With regard to Ambien, you are being either stupid or conniving. Firstly, no reasonable person takes Ambien IN THE MORNING, or before DRIVING. Secondly, here is a person with a history of serious alcohol and drug abuse. You know, and I know, and everyone knows that Rep. Kennedy was drunk and/or had taken barbituate-type drugs. This wasn't sleeping pills. Don't play the people posting here for fools.

When I was pulled over last night for running into a pedestrian ... I mean a barrier, the cop saw that I was a law abiding citezen who pays his taxes. Amyway, you can guess the rest. My only point is that you cannot have individuals deciding the fate of the country who are above the law. Not just above the law, but beyond the law. How can they possibly speak for their constituents.

All wise congressmen should get endless prescriptions to Ambien, and use the sleepwalker excuse for anything. Found w/ a hooker? You woke up there. Time for rehab again.

Also, loved PK's comment about how he didn't "ask" for special consideration. Pfft.

Finally, w/ the Kennedy history, I would mind it if we employed all of them so long as they stayed in one place and thus kept away from the rest of us. It's like a family of kamikazes. I wouldn't walk out of the the house w/o a helmet if my name was Kennedy.

"March 26, 2000: A videotape captures Kennedy pushing a 58-year-old airport security guard backward and bumping the metal detector archway at Los Angeles International Airport. The catalyst apparently was that his luggage was too big for carry-on and he was disturbed the guard did not recognize him."

Re Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick: what is manslaughter if not murder?

Then again, what is murder if not manslaughter?

This is a law blog: can someone comment on the legal accuracy of seven machos' scenario? It doesn't seem right that you would be charged with manslaughter if your passenger died when your car crashed, unless you were shown to be negligent. Would drinking be enough to show that?

I was thinking it was dumb to ask him to resign a position where his mistakes may cost the lives of hundreds of Americans over a little car crash, but Brendan reminded me that disgraced Republicans like Trent Lott retire over the same kind of little things. That's politics, I guess.

Allow me, if I may, to comment on the legal accuracy of my scenario, by way of another real-life example:

Trooper: Janklow Was SpeedingDec. 3, 2003

"(AP) Rep. Bill Janklow was traveling 71 mph in a 55 mph zone when he ran a stop sign and drove into the path of a motorcyclist, a state trooper testified Wednesday at the congressman's manslaughter trial.

An aide who was with the former four-term South Dakota governor at the time of the crash testified that he believed Janklow slowed before the accident.

Highway Patrol Sgt. Gene Barthel, an accident reconstructionist, used a large map to show jurors the location of roads, stop signs, Janklow's Cadillac, the motorcycle and the body of its rider, Randy Scott."

In my case, I was completely sober and I didn't hit anyone but I did have a passenger in my car, and if my negligence had caused his death, a prosecutor would have a case for manslaughter.

The police officer at the scene said that he could tell by (I'll never forget this) "the geometry of the skidmarks that I was going at least 90." I swear to you by God that I was going about 60, maybe 65, in a 55 mph zone, when I swerved. But who would a jury believe: a petulant 16-year-old kid or a police officer at the scene?

There is a happy ending to this story, by the way. My friend and I suffered some abrasions and sore backs, and were coverd in mud, but we were fine. My insurance company actually sent someone to my friend's house. My friend insisted he was fine but signed a waiver and accepted a check for about $100. We spent the money on beer and threw a party.

I cannot believe some of the stupid stuff I did as a kid. (This was among the highlights, certainly.) It's sad that representatives in government are doing even stupider things.