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I wave the banner of neither political party. Frankly, I'm thinking strongly we need a 3rd party, but recognize the reality that isn't likely going to happen. But I digress.

As I watched the Clinton interview on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace I was struck by two things:

1. Reminded that Clinton does indeed have a temper. (But we knew that, just as we knew he was a womanizer. Neither of which preclude/distract from his accomplishments as far as I am concened.)

2. I thought to myself, Oh Oh, he's going to give em ammo for distracting us from the real important issue. The war in Iraq, the war on terrorism, and the failings of not just Bush, but Clinton, and Bush (again) and so on.

In my arm chair analysis, I found that Keith Olberman summarized it best for me:

We were misled (intentionally or not doesn't matter now), things are NOT going well, the situation in Iraq isn't making us safer (despite thousands and thousands of deaths and over $300 Billion [with a B]), the reality says otherwise. We are stuck, we can't get out. Our options are limited if we actually have any options. (Forgive me for saying this but there's something to be said for a "ruthless dictator" sometimes.)

Somehow this all ties together, the war on terror, 911, the message of fear that has been sold to us. The complete and utter failure of not just the national media but also the members of congress (in both parties) to ask the tough questions to hold anyone accountable, the refusal of the majority of Americans to spend even 5 minutes trying to understand the real issues vs accepting 30 second sound bites. (Maybe we're getting exactly what we deserve. Maybe Karl Rove recognizes that.)

I hate where we are right now.

I hate that all the national news programs are focusing on the Clinton interview and we are told little or nothing about what is going on in Iraq. It's like the war that really isn't happening.

$300 Billion, thousands and thousands of dead, no clear exit strategy, no meaningful improvement in safety. And what are we taliking about? "Clinton goes crazy"!

I missed the show. I tried to view it in the link that Ademas provided, but it doesn't work on this computer. I went to You Tube and Fox has apparently made all You Tube take down all the downloads. Oh well. Just as well, since I'm tired of Iraq. I'm tired of Clinton. I'm tired of Bush. I'm just tired of politics in general.

I don't blame Bush, Clinton for 9/11 (I mainly blame the terrorists). I'm sure both administrations had plenty of chances to prevent 9/11. But those saying that more could have been done, have the benefit of hindsight. I'm sure they would have been just as dismissive of a 9/11 type of attack ever happening on US soil.

When I went to training in Birmingham (UK), I took a class on international expats (expanding businesses globally). We split up into groups and were suppose to talk about whether a company should invest in India or Nigeria (based on specific parameters). Somehow our group got off task and this guy starting yapping about the reason the US went to war in Afghanistan, was because Bush wanted to seek revenge for Enron. Not understanding his logic, I asked that he explain. He goes on some tirade about India being the reason why Enron collapsed (a failed pipeline that led to the downfall of Enron). And because Bush was in bed with Enron, he needed to attack that region to seek revenge. It was the silliest thing I had ever heard and everyone in the group just ate it up. Nevermind Afghanistan is not India. Enron failed because of an accounting scandal trying to hide debt (something that I would at least expect a room of accountants to understand). Enron didn't have a pipeline in India (a powerplant or two, but not a pipeline). Anyways, everyone in the group believed it and threw in their own little version. I still to this day, can't understand the connection between Afghanistan and India, but I suppose in their eyes it close enough (and people say Americans are bad with geography). My point? People believe anything you say to them. Folks these days don't try to think for themselves. So I suppose talk radio is going to spin this as sex-crazed Clinton goes ballistic, blaming the media for fucking him over. And the liberals will say that Clinton was unfairly bashed and that Bush should be to blame.

And Lord only knows where the truth lies.

oh the military is about to ask for an additional $25 billion for the war. I understand that we need to stay and win the war, but can someone please tell me exactly what's the plan to win it (and how much will it really cost)?

Sure wish he had gotten that pissed at the terrorists after WTC 1,the slaughter of Americans and people from allover the world in the African Embassies, the slaughter at the Cole, and our soldiers in the Black Hawk down incident and so on. But he was no different that those before him. Reagan turned tail and ran out of Lebanon. It took 911 for us to see that there are people who want to kill us because we are different than them, and yet still half the country does not believe they want to kill us.Clinton's little tirade sure looked planned to me,just like Hillary's "right wing conspiracy" interview. The dems are being hurt by the whole "terror" thing and this was an attempt by Willy to spin it in his favor. It backfired. Hell, Bush and his gang have been blamed for everything,some on this board even were blaming the hurricanes on him,and yet we have seen no tirades from them. I have heard no one crediting Bush with producing a hurricane free summer. Hilarious. Willy is the Jimmy Swagart of American Politics. He sure didn't seem to upset at the Ryder Cup on Sunday. Face facts, he has absolutely no class.

Rab, don't you get it? Willy went there to take everyones attention off the war. The Dems have spent the entire past two years putting roadblocks in front of everything Bush has wanted in war on terror and now they will pay for it. Its one thing to be against the way the war in Iraq is being handled, its another to accuse the president of spying on citizens because we are monitoring calls from US to Al Quaeda dirtballs overseas. Its something totally different when Dems want to give rights to terrorists and take them to US courts with US lawyers. Willy doesn't want Hillary to get caught up in the crossfire. He only cares about one thing, himself, oh yeah and pussy.If you think Willy has a temper, you ought to see Hillary.

Somehow this entire discussion has become so polarized that the essential points seem to be overlooked.

1. Rodney, I understand completely the sacrifice you and your family have made. The death of your nephew in the service he was called to do is something that should never be overlooked. I lost my only brother in Vietnam, so believe me when I say I understand the basis for your beliefs.

But surely, (and I want to emphasize how much I respect you and your family and Thank you for the loss you have experienced), you can not compare a cum stain on a black dress with the blood that has been shed?

I know how strongly this issue hits home for you, I would never do anything to diminish that, but the deception of Clinton and it's resulting consequences pale in comparison to what the current topic is. Am I off base in that question?

2. Jack (I just knew you'd show up in this thread! ). You are a master at redirecting the discussion onto the perceived failings of the previous administration while neglecting to focus the same intense scrutiny on the current. (You are good, very good at that. I applaud you.) So when you dismiss the opinions/arguments of members who have a different political philosophy as:

Quote

Hell, Bush and his gang have been blamed for everything,some on this board even were blaming the hurricanes on him,and yet we have seen no tirades from them. I have heard no one crediting Bush with producing a hurricane free summer.

aren't you in fact engaging in the same hypocrisy you have condemned so frequently?

I mean, what would you answer if I reminded you that pre Iraq invasion we were told:

1. We have to go in now so we can be out before the heat of summer.2. It won't cost the American tax payer anything, the Iraqi oil revenue will pay for the costs.3. We'll be welcomed in the streets with flowers, cause they will see us as liberators.4. There's a nuclear cloud on the horizon if we don't act now.5. Iraq played a role in 911.

But you know what Jake, I'm really not interested in your answers to those questions. I only offer them to provide some sort of sense of perspective.

At this point, I think where we should be focusing our attention isn't on whether the Clinton administration (sorry conservatives, fans of Fox News, Bush supporters) is to blame. I don't think we should be focusing our attention of who did what when.

What I think we should be focusing our attention on is what the FUCK do we do now?

$300 Billion. Thousands and Thousands of dead. No end in sight.

Frankly we got screwed in my opinion.

Democracy? My ass! How can you even imagine bringing democracy to 3 very distinct groups who hate each other. Be it ethnic, religious, or otherwise.

And just for the record, (here's the only partisan card I intend to play) the REPUBLICANS, let me restate that, REPUBLICANS, were in charge of both major branches of government.

It ain't working in my rather myopic view, I concede I'm not as intelligent or as well read as many members here. But I refuse to be played the fool.

Who gives a rats ass whom Clinton was getting it off with? (Well maybe Jake does)

I watched the interview and watched Fox news wet themselves in joy thinking they stuck it to Clinton again. Well do you know what? Hes doing some thing the Religious Fanatical far Right cannot do and that is to tell the TRUTH.

People forget that Ken Starr spent years during the Clinton administration attempting to impeach President Clinton to the tune of $50,000,000.00 of taxpayer money. and this was done during six years of Clinton's eight-year term. He functioned under attacks from the Republicans that the democrats have far too much pride to do to Bushy. (And if they did theyd be accused of being un-patriotic or traitors.)

Im tired of being called un-patriotic because I consider Bush a liar and babbling fool. But I consider myself as much an American if not more then those that divide this country. And the Rowe fear factor, mongering is already started for the mid-term elections. Just look at the misinformation Jack stated above.

The only thing I can say for sure is that most Americans are sheep. and the Right Wing Republican party knows that. So dont forget to get out and vote in 45 days.

Yeah right!

Like how many people on this forum are even registered to vote?

I know I sound a little bit angry but not really! Most people do not realize how important it is to be involved politically. You win when you get out and vote. They know that so they do that.

Oh my goodness where does a person begin? Correct me if I am wrong, but it was the Democrats who came up with homeland security...resisted tooth and nail by this administration. Republicans saw the light on homeland security when the polls showed the American public was for it. They then turned homeland security into another pork barrel project...spending the money as they always do to secure votes.

Controlling both houses and the executive has made it impossible for the Democrats to block any legislation and Bush has gotten virtually everything he has wanted. Shredding the Constitution in the process.

It was Democrat John Murtha who discovered the lack of body armour and up-armoured humvees and raised holy hell about it. That fact can be verified if anyone cares to look it up. Not one hearing has been held under this Congress asking for an explanation to the billions (as in B) that are missing in Iraq.

The NIE has just issued their report (Republican) stating the Iraq war is creating more terrorists worldwide and is making us less safe from terrorists. And all the while the man responsible for 9/11 remains free somewhere under the protective umbrella of our ally Pakistan...why? because we took our eye off the ball and did not finish the job.

Truth be known Hillary is not as popular with Democrats as you might think...her position on the war and what to do about it is close to the administrations.

I watched the interview...Clinton did not back down until he finished his answer. Fox now shows an edited version to fit their needs. I hope people don't rely on cable news for information. There is so much hard news out there if a person is willing to look for it...and so much misinformation and nonsense if you are not.

Not any of the last few posts have anything to do with Rocky's original post. For your information Dachshund, MSNBC or CNN is no different than FOX and if you would have watched it tonight, you would have seen the interview with Clinton in its entirety.

Rab, I am in total agreement that the war in Iraq has been a major clusterfuck. I still believe,knowing what we knew then,we did the right thing going in. Many mistakes have been made, but find me a war(other than first gulf war)where many mistakes haven't been made.If Bush and company had told us prior to invasion that the goal was to develop a democracy in Iraq and hang around for Iranian and Syrian target practice for a decade,no one would have supported this war. This is the type of nation building that republicans criticized Clinton for .Bush had done more damage to conservatives than anyone,primarily because he isn't a conservative and has demonstrated the downside of the unholy alliance between conservatives and conservative Christians. That being said, I still believe the main factor in the growth of terrorism is the crummy economies in most Moslem countries. Notice the downtrend in violence in Ireland as their economy has improved greatly. Unemployment is at the root of terrorism and a free Iraq with a free market place could topple all the mid east dictatorships.I am in now way attempting to change directions by pointing to the manner all US presidents prior to W have handled terrorists. We are appeasers and that led to 911. Bin has said that when we ran after the BlackHawk Down incident he knew we didn't have the stomach to take casualties and he was right. Reagan did sent a missile into Khadafis home and we never heard from him again but he also ran in Beirut.

Cliff, I digress, Bush gave the Taliban $43. million in May 2001. There was a large outcry here in NY with women's groups over this. There was a quote going around then about how America will shower them with dollars or bombs.So there is a lot truth behind what these Brits were saying. OIl companies have big stakes in the region and I wouldn't be surprised if they are behind giving arms to all the parties after all they are the ones profiting. I am glad Clinton stood up to these guys but wonder why they didn't in 2004. The blood of American in Iraq is on both parties hands as much as the terrororists.Johnny

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"You shut your mouthhow can you sayI go about things the wrong wayI am human and I need to be lovedjust like everybody else does"The Smiths

Not any of the last few posts have anything to do with Rocky's original post. For your information Dachshund, MSNBC or CNN is no different than FOX and if you would have watched it tonight, you would have seen the interview with Clinton in its entirety.

You are so right, and that is why I don't rely on talking heads for my source of news information...you might want to try it.

I watched the interview on Sunday morning in its entirety. Since the broadcast Fox has used edited versions to prove Clinton "lost" it. There are many conservative, liberal and middle-of-road news sources that back that claim up. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself...you might learn something.

Cliff, I digress, Bush gave the Taliban $43. million in May 2001. There was a large outcry here in NY with women's groups over this. There was a quote going around then about how America will shower them with dollars or bombs.So there is a lot truth behind what these Brits were saying. Oil companies have big stakes in the region and I wouldn't be surprised if they are behind giving arms to all the parties after all they are the ones profiting.

The $43 million is misinformation. It wasn't money given to the Taliban, it was food aid that passed through the government (as we often do when a corrupt regimen is in control of a region ravaged by famine and the war on drugs/opium). The aid went to the people. It was continuation of aid from the Clinton Administration. There is no conspiracy there.

And that does not provide legitimacy to a silly claim that a pipeline in India started the Afghan/Iraq wars. It's just a play on a rumor that Unocoal (not Enron) was trying to build a pipeline in Afghan. but was unsuccessful. They stopped trying while Clinton was President (a fact usually ommited by the story tellers). Enron sounds more dramatic, so the guy threw out Enron instead of Unocal. He was British-Indian, so that probably played into why India was substituted for Afghanistan (as he could appear to be an expert on all things Indian), well that and the fact that Enron had no assets in Afghanistan, so he needed to name a country where the company actually had assets. You throw out Bush, Enron and terrorists and you can somehow connect that to any world event. It's the new Kevin Bacon game among conspiracy theorists. And the world (mostly) laps it up like gravy. The problem is it takes away from the real issues.

Johny, its both parties. Read the book "charlie Wilson's secret war" before you see the movie(tom hanks). Charlie is a dem from East Texas and too say the least was a larger than life figure, whose life mission became helping the Afgans defeat the Russians. This war was financed in secret between Charlie,Tipp O'niel and Casey. The weapons left over from this war were used to arm Bin and Taliban after the Ruskies threw in the towell.What's really humorous is at the same time the Dems were running this secret war against Russia in Afgan they were publicly opposing the republican war against Ruskies in Central America. They both play us.

Yeah, you know so much, run for office. Seems you can find fault with everything they've done and you can do it so much better, run. That's one freedom you have, use it. (Jack this reply was not for you or Cliff it just so happen to be posted after your twos)

Yeah, you know so much, run for office. Seems you can find fault with everything they've done and you can do it so much better, run. That's one freedom you have, use it. (Jack this reply was not for you or Cliff it just so happen to be posted after your twos)

Huh? Your responses are always so silly and predictable...at least you are good for a laugh. Personal attacks are always the last refuge of a boor...and a person with flimsy arguments. I never directed my "opinions" to you...if you don't like them, put me on ignore or run for dog catcher...cuz I don't care.

You are so right, and that is why I don't rely on talking heads for my source of news information...you might want to try it.

Dachshund, is that what you said or not? I just responded to what you said. If you didn't want a response, don't ever quote me. By the way I thought you put me on ignore? Guess not..and you have the nerve to talk about political parties and news agencies getting things twisted around.

Not any of the last few posts have anything to do with Rocky's original post. For your information Dachshund, MSNBC or CNN is no different than FOX and if you would have watched it tonight, you would have seen the interview with Clinton in its entirety.

Once again your use of selective memory is in play...it was you o' wise one who first invoked the name of the mighty Dachshund. I decided to unignore you for my personal amusement. Predicting your tired patented responses has become sort of a hobby for me...so far I am three for three. I hope you find me fair and balanced?

I do not know who said this, but as I think about it, it seems to be a very appropriate saying as far as this situation goes. As the Bush administration becomes more and more dysfunctional and out of touch with reality, we will see more and more crap like this happening. After all when you have no honest way to combat the truth about your mistakes, it becomes more and more necessary to make the other person look bad, like they are crazy. Clinton speaks the truth, and is excoriated crazy. Bush had lied since day one and continues to do so, yet some still fall for the lies, and he is treated as a saint of some kind. I saw the rebuttal on MSNBC, and agreed with it entirely. The only problem that I could see with it was the insistence of Keith O. on calling him "sir" Sir is a term of respect, something that no one in the Bush administration deserves. We have been lied to, and are still being lied to, and will always be lied to by this administration. The reality is that 9/11 was the best thing to happen for Bush. He has used the pain of that sad day to further his flawed and self serving agenda, no matter how fucked up his ideas are. Any time he is questioned, he drags the tired out line questioning his critics patriotism. Patriotism? If believing this drunken fools line is the only way to measure patriotism, then I most certainly not patriotic. The man has lied. His lies have caused the death of thousands, both ours and the Iraqi civilians. He continues to lie. And in continuing to lie, he continues to profit, along with his friends of industry. He will lie as long as he can, making as much as he can, then leave, letting someone else clean up his mess. He truly is evil, in every sense of the word. One must question the loyalties of a person whose family has made millions and millions of dollars through business dealings with the Saudis as well as the bin Laden family. That versus the relatively pathetic amount of money that the Presidency pays I wonder that anybody can actually trust that this person has our best interests at heart. There is little difference between Bush and bin Laden. They both are the scions of wealthy oil families. They and their supporters both truly believe that they are appointed by God himself to do what they are doing. And they both are willing to cause the deaths of thousands of innocent people in order to fulfill their delusions of being favored by the divine. They are both evil, and hopefully will rot in Hell alongside each other, tormenting each other for all eternity. I don't really believe in Hell, but if there really is such a place, I hope to see them both there. Unlike them, I have no illusions as to where I'd be heading. Sometimes, I think that the only thing that keeps me fighting through all of this health related crap is the desire to outlive the bastard so that when he dies, I can piss on his grave

Sorry 'bout that. Anyway, I took it over to their house so their little girls could watch it for the first time, and it turned out that dear old dad had never seen it either. How does someone get to be 37 years old, without ever having seen the Wizard?

I miss Clinton. Like ive said... when Clinton lies people get BLOWN, when Bush lies, people get BLOWN UP!

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

When you stop to think about it, is it really so surprising that we get a president like this idiot? After all, when more people vote for their favorite American Idol, than vote in a Presidential election, we got exactly what we deserve. The man is all 7 Deadly Sins rolled up into on tidy little package.

Personally I think this is what Clinton was TRYING to say to the Radical Right (ie Republicans)

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Sept. 26, 2006 — A declassified government intelligence report says the war in Iraq has become a "cause celebre" for Islamic extremists, breeding deep resentment of the U.S. that is likely to get worse before it gets better.

In the bleak report, released Tuesday on President Bush's orders, the nation's most veteran analysts conclude that despite serious damage to the leadership of al-Qaida, the threat from Islamic extremists has spread both in numbers and in geographic reach.

"If this trend continues, threats to U.S. interests at home and abroad will become more diverse, leading to increasing attacks worldwide," the document says. "The confluence of shared purpose and dispersed actors will make it harder to find and undermine jihadist groups."

Bush ordered a declassified version of the classified report released after several days of criticism sparked by portions that were leaked. Asked about those Tuesday, Bush said critics who believe the Iraq war has worsened terrorism are naive and mistaken.

The intelligence assessment, completed in April, has stirred a heated election-season argument over the course of U.S. national security in the years following the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Bush and his top advisers had said the broad assessment on global terrorism supported their arguments that the world is safer. But more than three pages of stark judgments warning about the spread of terrorism contrasted with the administration's glass-half-full declarations.

The report said:

- The increased role of Iraqis in opposing al-Qaida in Iraq might lead the terror group's veteran foreign fighters to focus their efforts outside the country.

- While Iran and Syria are the most active state sponsors of terror, many other countries will be unable to prevent their resources from being exploited by terrorists.

- The underlying factors that are fueling the spread of the extremist Muslim movement outweigh its vulnerabilities. These factors are entrenched grievances and a slow pace of reform in home countries, rising anti-U.S. sentiment and the Iraq war.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

There is little difference between Bush and bin Laden. They both are the scions of wealthy oil families. They and their supporters both truly believe that they are appointed by God himself to do what they are doing. And they both are willing to cause the deaths of thousands of innocent people in order to fulfill their delusions of being favored by the divine. They are both evil, and hopefully will rot in Hell alongside each other, tormenting each other for all eternity.

What's that noise I hear? Ah yes, it's Carl hitting the nail on its head. Well said Carl - all of it.

Ann(who is glad there are people living in America who can see through the bushshit)

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I agree with your comparison just not the outcome of them rotting in hell, because that is just what they think that WE deserve. I refuse to lower myself to such a level as I believe their actions already show that they are living a hell.

The Clinton interview was just another reiteration of the truth that many of us have known for at least 2 years. My issue with Bush is he refuses to admit when he has royally f'ed up and how he can still support that buffoon Rumsfield is beyond my comprehension. Unfortunately both of our political parties are corrupt and incredibly short sighted and unable to agree on which way is up.

What we need is to restore some balance to Congress and if that means that there are then inquiries into this administration and its' behavior, well then so be it. If Bush treated us as if he actually worked for US, rather than our being RULED by him his approval rating would not be in the toilet. But the man has lost all credibility here and in many parts of the world. The liberals did not do this to George, he swallowed his foot all by himself, with a little help from Dick and Rummy.

Saddest is that nothing will change in Iraq and Bush will leave it all for the next poor smuck. Bush does not care as his family has billions and he will forever be insulated from the real world. The one he has corrupted by his arrogance and inability to see his own failings.

Lastly, for anyone to even suggest that what Clinton did was deserving of Impeachment, versus what Bush has done in the past 6 years and that does not even warrant Congressional hearings. Think about this people. Clinton lied about a blow job and not one person died. Bush lied us into Iraq, with a body count of 3,000 Americans and untold thousands upon thousands upon thousands of Iraqis. It is time for some of you to wake up to reality. This is not about hating anyone, it is about realizing that our current administration is incredibly incompetent and needs to be monitored, from Bush on down.

Those who refuse to monitor their own government and demand appropriate changes when necessary, get the exact type of government that they deserve.

It’s now been four day’s since Clinton’s interview and it is still top story on all the major networks especially Fox news, which does the hate mongering work for the Republican Party. I’m glad Clinton got angry. It might get a few other democrats’ as well as some republicans to stand up and start making some needed changes.

It should not be “Who is to blame” The issue should be ‘What are we going to do about it?

What about the five to eight billion dollars a month being spent on the war in Iraq with no end in sight?What about medical coverage for the elderly and poor in this country?Covering the cost of the doughnut hole in Medicare-part D.Why is one in every 1000 households in America today, currently is in bankruptcy?The inflated increase in property values, which automatically causes an increase in taxes as well as the cost of home insurance.The increase (Temporary until after the November elections) in gasoline prices?How can America become independent of foreign oil? (A must for the survival of this country if we are to survive in the future.)What to do about Americas image around the world? (Which is at an historical record low.) Our allies now even hate us.Illegal immigration and the burden on the American taxpayer?The tremendous increase in medical cost for the baby boomers?What about the continual lies being said by both parties, to the American people.What to do about the US failed “War on drugs.”? Billions spent for what? Education and on and on.

Maybe with Clinton getting so angry it will encourage others to get out and stir the pot a little. The only problem is who is there that would be qualified to take up the torch for the middle and left wing? Obama looks good but I don’t think a country as racist as ours is quite ready for a black President just as it’s not ready for a woman president.

But I do know that the republican’s strategy is for the two major parties to continue fighting one another. And as long as they do this country will be run by the religious far right fundamentalist.

Iraq and Afghanistan War, Republican President George W. Bush US Soldier deaths to date: 2706

Now do you really want to talk about what Political Party declared the most wars and conflicts or how many civilians were killed by what Political Party? There is nothing good about war. War is War, death and distruction.

The Bush family is not worth billions, let alone hundreds of millions. George sr. did have a small oil business that he sold for something like 3 million dollars before he started his political career. George has has an amazing life. He was survivor at age 19 or 18 from a suicide mission on Chichi Jima. He and his son are in no way similar to Bin Laden and anyone believing so is insane.Back to Clintons appearance. Don't you all get it? No you don't, you voted for the guy and probably defended him as he ended the Dems rule in Congress with his incompetence. He is playing the role he and hillary have played to rave reviews for 15 years, the role of victim. Clintons performance on Fox last week was as credible and honest as Hillarys 60 minutes "right wing conspiracy" farce. Its what they do. But both parties play these games and we are the fools they play to. I voted for republicans because I believe in cutting government spending,something they have promised for years. You vote for Dems because of what they promise to deliver to all of their interest groups and they never deliver. These guys are running for office to get power and money,not to deliver what they promise. Both sides.

Jack you sure must be disappointed in your vote...how's that reduction in government spending working out for you? Last time I checked it was the Democrats who balanced the budget and left Herr Bush a tidy little surplus. I will let you twist that fact anyway you like it...but it is still a fact.

Now the Bushies may not be like Bin Laden, but they are certainly friends with the Bin Laden family. They have been in business together for years, along with the Saudis. The Bush family learned the how-to's of war profiteering from Grandpappy Prescott and they continue to do it to this day. While his son was being shot down ol' Prescott made a fortune dealing with the Nazis...another fact Jack. Trying to downplay the wealth of the Bush family is absurd.

First of all, that was my point, I am extremely disappointed that the Republican Congress is no different than the Dems who had ruled for the past 50 years. They both spend money to buy votes and campaign contributions.Second, Clinton was drug kicking and screaming to the balanced budget idea and welfare reform by the Gingrich congress. Don't you remember Clinton saying there was no way it could be done, and then well maybe in ten years, and then lo and behold the stock market took off and produced revenues to the govt from capital gains.Clinton was smart enough to take credit for them once they occurred.The Bushes are not in bus with the Bin Ladens. The Carlyle group, a private equity outfit run by a few ex Bush officials, does have a few deals going with the Bin Laden family. They are a huge family and I am sure you can find just as many or more democrat businessmen with Bin Laden deals.Cheney sold his HAL stock before he was required to, because of Democratic whining, thus avoid the crash in HAL stock. Pretty funny. The Democrats then tried to say he sold early because he knew something.

ACKC, did you see where Pelosi want the entire report released only in a secret session of Congress? Bush then announced yesterday he will make the report pubic to everyone. Hmmmm. Looks like the Dems have screwed up again.

Iraq and Afghanistan War, Republican President George W. Bush US Soldier deaths to date: 2706

Now do you really want to talk about what Political Party declared the most wars and conflicts or how many civilians were killed by what Political Party? There is nothing good about war. War is War, death and distruction.

The lack of deaths in the last two wars are in NO WAY related to the leaders. It is related to our superior technology AND us being the lone super power. As for the Democratic Presidents, the first 2 had their hands FORCED upon them. In regards to declaring war on Japan, to compare that to what Bush did in Iraq, Roosevelt would have had to declare war on Peru! A country that had NOTHING to do with Pearl Harbor. Bush (the stupid one) did NOT have his hand forced in Iraq. The only comparison is Vietnam and we all know how well THAT went.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2006, 09:39:02 AM by ACinKC »

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

ACKC, did you see where Pelosi want the entire report released only in a secret session of Congress? Bush then announced yesterday he will make the report pubic to everyone. Hmmmm. Looks like the Dems have screwed up again.

Bush only released it after SERIOUS pressure and the Dems forcing his hand. You KNOW that.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Jack you sure must be disappointed in your vote...how's that reduction in government spending working out for you? Last time I checked it was the Democrats who balanced the budget and left Herr Bush a tidy little surplus. I will let you twist that fact anyway you like it...but it is still a fact.

Now the Bushies may not be like Bin Laden, but they are certainly friends with the Bin Laden family. They have been in business together for years, along with the Saudis. The Bush family learned the how-to's of war profiteering from Grandpappy Prescott and they continue to do it to this day. While his son was being shot down ol' Prescott made a fortune dealing with the Nazis...another fact Jack. Trying to downplay the wealth of the Bush family is absurd.

Watching Bill bitch slap Chris Wallace was a joy to behold.

AMEN DASCH! I LOVE YA MY MAN!!!

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

ACKC, did you see where Pelosi want the entire report released only in a secret session of Congress? Bush then announced yesterday he will make the report pubic to everyone. Hmmmm. Looks like the Dems have screwed up again.

Portions of the report Jack, portions...redacted at that. To add insult to injury the portions released confirm the war in Iraq is creating more terrorists...not less.

If you believe their is no difference between Republicans and Democrats then every charge you level against Democrats you are leveling against Republicans.

Controlling both houses, Republicans were still unable to balance the budget. Your party is a sham controlled by the religious right and big business...the prerequisite for fascism. Instead of fixating on the Clinton's you should worry about the loss of civil liberties and the shredding of the Constitution.

Hmmmm, Iraq and Afghanistan...looks like the Republicans have screwed up again.

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

As far as I am concerned, there are very few politicians at the federal level in America who have any decency, conscience or sense of fair play. Our elections are nothing more than mud slinging contests and the debates between candidates generally shows just how shallow both of them are. My beef is no longer with our government, but with America itself. Too many of us have stopped voting, demanding transparency in government, balanced budgets, you name it.

The primaries here were a total joke. 11-15% turnout across the state of Florida and the ones who don't vote are the ones who bitch the most. I believe it is time for Americans to reclaim America and that means forcing real change in many ways in which we conduct our business. Can you imagine how foolish we look to the world, when 16 of our intelligence agencies confirm the fiasco of Iraq and the administrations spin on the war to hide the fact that they lied about the reasons for the war, they totally botched the past 3 years and yet we still have Rummy?

And this blame game is just a waste of hot air, or in this case bandwidth. If you insist on playing the blame game, then start with your local government and work your way up. Open you mind, eyes and ears and research those issues that concern you and look for the truth, not just some sound bites. Start holding leaders accountable for their action or inaction. Call them out on it in a public forum and then keep the heat on them to do something or step aside so someone else can lead.

Both of our political parties should be disbanded and new laws should be structured to mandate the existence of at least 3 political parties (I hate having to vote for the lesser of two evils), reform the election process and most important is that there must be spending limits, so we can start to get some of the real talent of this country in office because many of them cannot even consider politics due to their financial limitations.

It no longer matters who knew what or when they did, because so much of it is just lies and manipulations of the public and media. Americans better wake up and demand change, otherwise you will awake one day to an America that you no longer recognize, but by then it will be too late. Far too late.

ACKC, Nice try. Bush is releasing the report to show that the leaked info that the Dems were reporting was taken out of context. To avoid further embarrassment Pelosi sought to have the report only opened in a secret congressional hearing.We can go round and round on this, I could vote for a democrat if given someone better than what repubs are offering. Algore and Lurch were not.

Whether Bush's fans care to admit it or not, he IS no different from bin Laden. If you question the sanity of people believing this, just refer to the opening quote in my first post. As far as the other wars go, I don't think that you will find many people who thing that they were unjustified. But in respect to Viet Nam, that is a different story entirely. We spent how many years, threw away how much money, and caused the deaths of how many people for no good reason. You cannot fight an idea with military action, which is what we were attempting to do. And in attempting to do so, we got our asses kicked. Even Robert McNamara years later admitted as much. When people protested the Viet Nam war, the were labeled traitors, freaks, and UN-American. They were arrested, they were beaten, they were treated as though insane. But guess what? They were RIGHT!! Time has proven that. The only thing that seems never to change is the unwillingness of a society to remember it's lessons from past mistakes. In this, we are not the only society to behave this way. For proof, just look at how frequently people around the globe slaughter each other with glee in the name of "ethnic cleansing" Or in other words, killing everyone that doesn't agree with me. This is a way too common aspect of human behavior. We as Americans have no corner on that particular market. As a race, (Human) we have a long way to go, and a hard road ahead if we are to survive ourselves. We have to learn to let go of our also universal need to be RIGHT. Look at most every major disagreement we face today. Pick a topic, and the hing that you will notice is that very few people are actually communicating. Rather they are hell bent on forcing the other side to come to their point of view. There is no real desire to compromise. Abortion, religion,politics, this whole stupid fucking war that is tearing this country apart. Just look at this thread, and what it has turned into. There is little here that is likely being absorbed, we're all too busy trying to get everyone else to understand why We're right, not Them. It doesn't matter what the topic is, it is basic human nature to insist on being right, and this is the thing we as a species need to overcome. Only when we can overcome this will we ever be able to begin to make warfare obsolete. Will we be able to? Who knows. Things are set in motion now, and it is time move past the blame. But this does not mean that those responsible should not be held accountable for their actions. They should be prosecuted. It is time for a change of course. Finish up what has been started, and do it quickly. Make the hard changes that need to be made, both within ourselves, our homes, our communities, and our counties as well as their governments.

Iraq and Afghanistan War, Republican President George W. Bush US Soldier deaths to date: 2706

Now do you really want to talk about what Political Party declared the most wars and conflicts or how many civilians were killed by what Political Party? There is nothing good about war. War is War, death and distruction.

Above are some of the statistics the Religious Right Wing of the Republican Party wants you to read. Below are the statistic I’m more concerned with.

Number of people living with HIV:

According to estimates from the UNAIDS/WHO Global Report (May 2006), around 36.3 million adults and 2.3 million children were living with HIV at the end of 2005.

Number of people infected during 2005, and the number of deaths:

During 2005, some 4.1 million people became infected with the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), which causes AIDS.The year also saw 2.8 million deaths from AIDS - a high global total, despite antiretroviral (ARV) therapy, which reduced AIDS-related deaths among those who received it.

Young people affected by HIV and AIDS:

Around half of the people who acquire HIV become infected before they turn 25 and typically die of the life-threatening illnesses called AIDS before their 35th birthday. By the end of 2005, the epidemic had left behind 15.2 million aids orphans, defined as those aged under 18 who have lost one or both parents to AIDS.

But I’m even more concerned when you figure that under the direction of the Rev. Jerry Falwell there are 80 million Evangelical Christians registered to vote.

And if you don’t think that the gay issue won’t be used again this election, your not paying attention.

Terry, I'm sorry to bust your bubble. I'm not religious at all and no, those statistics aren't from the Religious Right Wing of the Republicans. You need to get your head out of the sand. We have more people dieing each year of heart disease, diabetes and cancer than we do people dieing of HIV. What about those people? You don't care, because it doesn't affect you? Well, HIV doesn't affect everyone else either.

ACinKC, yes less lives lost in the last two wars. Technology did have a lot to do with it. But if the democrates have had their way we wouldn't have had money for the technology we have today. If the Democrats had their way, we would be fighting here instead of there. You want to bitch about how much money is spent on defense and not on HIV. But you would be the first to bitch if the casualties of war were greater, you would bitch if they were fighting here. You know you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't drum it into teens and young adults to use protection, to protect themselves from HIV and other STDs. Spend some time in the fears forum and listen to all the excuses that some of them say why they didn't use a condom. Even listen, to some of the people in Living With forum or Off topic forum talking about barebacking and saying the other person should have been responsible. HIV, isn't like cancer, isn't like diabetes, nor heart disease. Most of us could have prevented being infected. Now there are some of us here that didn't know the risks, didn't have testing, it didn't even have a name, all we knew what ever it was, it killed gays. So bitching so much about HIV and expenditures and not getting enough money, doesn't hold a candle to the other diseases. More people die each year of all the other diseases compaired to HIV. If you want to bitch about allocating monies for health. Don't just bitch about HIV, bitch about money for all diseases.