1970 Character Development.

This is an old debate, but one that will last until the collapse of western society. In my opinion George Lucas did a disservice to the character development of Han Solo by editing the bar scene where he kills Greedo before Greedo kills him. Over the course of the films Han becomes more and more heroic and selfless, but the edit tries to make him heroic from the start. unfortunately Solo A Star Wars story pretty much seals that portrayal. Han is a good guy from day one, with very little change over time. He just gets caught up in things and rolls with it. But whatever. It seems like the world is less and less interested in redemption or growth. If you don’t spring virtuous and whole from the womb you are garbage, with no way to change your status.

In any event Rulette is a purist, likely because of her father’s influence. I suspect she saw Star Was on VHS, unedited, & that remains her version of it in her heart. Additionally I suspect she’s not interested in debating her position, and Ed is not so dense as to press the issue in spite of that intense nerd desire to correct everyone all the fucking time.

I went to the doctors today and once I got home I was wrecked. I was up from 3AM till 2PM. I’ve been sleeping from 11AM to 5PM, so my body didn’t know what the fuck to do. I had to fast for bloodwork so I was annoyed until they finally got that done as well. I’m sore and Ihurt all over. I didn’t feel like passing out or anything though. I kept upright and moving the whole time until my body finally forced me to stop being up.

well there might always be a betamax player around if you have the tape…. (suddenly I am having mental flashbacks to a welsh corgi, a strange kid, a grumpy old man, a guy with weird hair and some girl named Fay…. )

My view: unfortunately- the VHS tape player business seems to have died out, around 2016.

Maybe- it’s cheaper for device companies to make DVD players than vhs players.
[I think panasonic [R] made a combination- blu-ray player + VHS player (machine) in 2010.
You can still find [sites that refurbish] vhs players, + vcr[s], online. I think ebay has a refurb., vhs player, for $30, today.

If you did far enough on the web- some people on forums will point out or claim that-
The scene went like this- Gweedo [sp?] was threatening Han with a gun, and then Han shot Gweedo, meaning- Han fired the ONLY shot…in that scene.
But that’s not something that I’m gonna argue about. Hm.

“In my day, there was no ‘Han shot first’. There was only one shot, and Han took it.”

And in the book, he gloated to himself that Greedo should have known better than to let him get his hands under the table.

As for that making him a “bad guy”, I never saw that. I saw a guy get in trouble with a loan shark, and kill the guy that came to kill him. Sure, it’s not great, but “better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.”

But frankly, Ep 7 burned any enjoyment of the franchise out of me.

As for the change, what Lucas did was theft. He took a shared experience, and made it inaccessible.

I’m glad I’m not the only one to feel that way about Disney’s abominable treament of an iconic piece of modern American entertainment. Lucas publicly regretted selling to Disney after seeing Episode 7, but it’s too late for regret, dude. You should have know from the start that it was a bad idea to sell Lucasfilm to those tyrants. Now we have Emo Vader and who knows what for the next Indiana Jones to pollute the collective consciousness of the world. I feel sorry for the kids growing up with parents who knew the original trilogy before it was tainted. Thankfully I have the originals (the non-Special Edition version) on DVD and can vote with my wallet by not giving those miscreants any more of my money.

First up… saying Han shot first can imply Greedo ever shot. Of course, my BIG problem with that scene edit is that Greedo’s shot shows no lasting effects. Han’s shot, lots of after effects, smoke, hole in Greedo, etc.

Second, reading your notes, your health issues are probably why I see two typos in the comic. Motiations in panel 1 should probably be motivations, and in panel 2 neautral should probably be neutral. I’m not trying to imply shoddy work or something there, just trying to be helpful before you get tons of notes about them.

Have to agree about the dislike of redemption or growth anymore. Not to make it political, but sometimes you hear about someone old enough to retire being driven out of a job, or an entire career, because they said something improper 40 years ago. Strangely, while you are not allowed to grow and mature, you ARE allowed to grovel for forgiveness–that works. Which seems odd; what’s more likely, that someone grew and became a better person over decades, or that the person who was caught being a jerk last week had a sudden change of heart and totally isn’t just begging for mercy? It’s almost like the point isn’t to make people better, it’s to participate in the song-and-dance correctly.

I blame the American Protestant flavor of Christianity. People aren’t supposed to make themselves better! They’re supposed to let God do it. And they’re supposed to be very penitent when they sin.

The psychology is, shall we say, disconnected from the way people actually work. But that’s what you get when you believe in an all-powerful all-knowing being who takes a deep personal interest in your sex life and thoughtcrimes.

Putting this often overlooked, forgotten or just purposely ignored bit of truth which may seem to be wisdom.

The Venn Diagram for common sense and good sense has very little overlap.

As for Religion – It is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself – the whole don’t kill each other, treat everyone with respect, work together as a group helping others, is a common thread in most religions [though not all] – sadly human nature being what it is, the concept is used and abused for personal ends, as a means to an end, and a good idea goes to hell – sometimes quite literally.

When religion has been abused to the point where it’s now being used as an arbitrary tool to advance whatever controversial agenda for the sake of political or cultural gain, that is where disillusionment for the practice itself comes into play lest the practitioner wants to be seen as a pariah in the face of their own faction.

This is exactly why I am not a Christian, or a member of any other religion, despite believing in a God or Creator of some sort. I do believe there’s wisdom in all religions, as well as a lot of what can only be called crap, and our job as intelligent, sapient beings is to sort the wisdom from the crap. Sadly, most practitioners of religion don’t see it that way, and they just accept it all, or worse, use it as an excuse to justify their own petty hatreds and prejudices.

And that goes double for the extremely religious. Nothing else matters but God, and everything is either because of God, or excused by God, with absolutely no room for personal responsibility

I find is amusing that you specify “American Protestant flavor of Christianity” as the problem considering how it is a Catholic faith and not that dissimilar from Roman Catholicism, theologically speaking. Observing poor behavior from people who claim to be Christian and then tarring those of the same religion using the same brush is just as foolish as being a racist. Generalizations can be useful, but in social terms they are often as harmful as they are helpful. I’m sorry that you’ve apparently only met those who don’t take the tenets of their faith seriously, but don’t judge all of us by their example.

And then there’s the Me2 movement-however that’s spelled. It seems to have succeeded quite well-if the purpose was to make sure no man in his right mind will work with a woman. If they can come out decades later with accusations of “sexual impropriety” , safer just to avoid the risk.Kinda hard to prove what you didn’t do 30 plus years ago.

Han shot first. That doesn’t mean Han didn’t shoot in self-defense.
It is abundantly clear that Greedo was going to stone-cold murder him in all versions of that scene. Han is still readying his gun and setting up to blast Greedo through the table in all versions. He’s just slow enough in the edits that Greedo gets off a shot before Han does. A shot Greedo had no business whatsoever missing. I’m assuming in the edit that Greedo noticed the table-gun and panicked.

I read the edit as less an attempt to change Han’s character and more an attempt to explain to audiences that “Greedo was actually going to frickin’ kill him right there in the bar, he couldn’t actually talk his way out of this”, because people are dumb enough to think that until shots are fired, there’s no threat.

The important thing to take from that scene, which survives edits, is that Han has people that want him dead, and doesn’t really mind reversing that equation… possibly also that Greedo was an idiot in love with the sound of his own voice, and wasn’t ever going to last long as a bounty hunter.

The big problem to me with the Greedo scene is it is an INEXCUSABLY LAZY AND SLIPSHOD edit. It looks fake as hell, and Lucas should be embarrassed to have ever put it on the big screen.

Lucas did a disservice to “Star Wars” as a whole, not only because of the prequels, but also because of the constant rereleases of the original trilogy where he kept adding more and more each time. And then of course he sold the series to Disney, who turned the series into SJW propaganda with Mary “Rey” Sue.

Hell, I lean pretty left, some of my best friends are “liberal snowflakes” and goddamned proud of it, and even I think Rey is a Mary Sue and completely fails as a femminist icon and a character that pleases no one.

I just wish someone would take the actress to a shooting range a few times. She shoots…wrong. I don’t even know how to shoot; but even I can tell that she shoots like a little kid going “Pow! Pow! Pow!”

I honestly don’t get why anyone has a problem with Rey. I mean, The Force Awakens had a LOT of problems, but Rey is just another desert orphan with a magical destiny that receives a lot of help from a band of plucky sidekicks of varying ages and personalities.

Really, The Force Awakens’ biggest problem is that it is a note-by-note rehash of the original Star Wars, just with far worse pacing and editing.
…
Well, and that it undoes all the character development Han Solo had over the course of the original movies(to say nothing of the ejected book development) to roll him back to a a smuggler sneaking drugs across the galaxy. And then paints him as inept, just for good measure.

To be honest, I sincerely doubt that any new Star Wars film would be wholly accepted by the fans without severe backlash over how the film should be presented. The franchise has literally sunk to the point where nobody knows how to make the franchise work anymore without polarizing the entire fanbase.

The issue with Rey as I understand it is that she was given preferential treatment compared to Luke. Completely untrained, she does a lot of Force tricks in her first film that Luke needed three films and two teachers to learn. This is where accusations of Rey as a Mary Sue come from as well.

Upper management as Lucasfilm did themselves no favors proclaiming “The Force is Female” which suggests it also plays favorites.

You’re goddamn right Han shot first. Seriously, as much as it was a disservice to Han’s character, it fucked up Greedo even worst. Dude went from a stone-cold professional who paid the price for underestimating the ruthlessness of his target to an incompetent moron who can’t hit a stationary target sitting 4 feet in front of him…

I will say this though, if not for the stupid “Greedo and Han simultaneous shit edit,” Solo: A Star Wars Story doesn’t necessarily contradict Han’s original character as a morally dubious badass. Han could’ve started off like we saw in his origin story movie: a generally good guy with a rough background. Over time, experience and hardship could have slowly eroded away his will to do the right thing or his belief in causes bigger than himself into selfish rogue we all knew and loved in OG New Hope, before his interactions with Luke and Leia helped to make him believe in causes again. Like it or dislike it, I think Solo actually makes Han’s character arc potentially more interesting as he swings from kind of heroic, to kind of a dick, then full circle back to full-on leader of the rebellion.

Same. I don’t think that Han has ever been portrayed as a bad guy, just opportunistic. In the Solo movie, that same attitude continues to color his every action. His mentor and himself are threatened by a cartel, so he makes the most of the opportunity. In the end of the film, he wants the girl, so he rolls with her plan because 1. there’s no way to leave the planet now; and 2. it’s an opportunity to get the girl and get rich.

Only he doesn’t get the girl, and he still doesn’t get rich. Only when Luke and Obi-Won show up and offer a chance to get out of the hole he’s dug himself does he agree to help. And then he helps again because he sees an opportunity to prove himself the bigger man than Luke thought he was.

Fasting for having bloods taken? My GP would throw a fit if I ever did that…… well not so much a fit but more “that was really dumb, please don’t do it again” kinda thing.

Then again I have a history of fainting once and generally having a blood presure dip after such things depending on how much they take and time of day (seriously don’t try and take blood from me before I’m about to eat because I’ll probably just straight up pass out after and you have that rigmarole to deal with).

As for people changing, yeah change is the one constant of this universe. Even our own planet has changed so many times that if we were to go back in time, we may think we’ve landed on an alien planet. People seem to forget that and go “well so and so said that 40 or 20 or 10 years ago and therefore must still believe it”. Erm what? NO. I’m nowhere near the same person I was 20 or even 10 years ago and yet I’m still going to get judged on something stupid I did that long ago and have learnt from? F**k that, and the offender can go and eat a bag of dicks.

If someone said something reprehensible that long ago, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see any solid evidence (usually their behaviour or anything they say whilst drunk. In vito veritas is a very big truth for humans) that they either still hold those same reprehensible views or have ditched them.

Thanks to both of you for explaining that fasting for blood tests sometimes needs to happen without being patronising.

It does sound like a load of suck having to do it but doctors (at least the ones that don’t deserve to have their medical licenses revoked) wouldn’t make you do it if there wasn’t a good reason for it.

Even though Han does seem like a mostly “good guy” in Solo, he does shoot first at the end of the movie (hope that’s not too much of a spoiler), which I actually felt was kind of a nod by Disney to the fans of the originals. He was also betrayed by two people he trusted fully which sets up his attitude for Episode 4.

Not to mention the Greedo-shot-first version just looks stupid because they didn’t change the trajectory of Greedo’s shot, so Greedo, whose pistol is pointing right at Han’s face just before the shot, veers wildly up and to the left for no reason, instead of the perfectly legitimate reason of he just caught a blaster bolt in the ribs and is already dead with his hand having twitched spasmodicly in the instant of death.

Jackie said on twitter that- he’s looking for new audiobooks.
If you’re looking for light reading, [well, my idea of light reading], please try the Stephanie Plum novels, Such as-
Two For the Dough by Janet Evanovich.
You can find more titles of the Stephanie Plum novels, on this page:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Evanovich

Stephanie is a bounty hunter that does detective-like jobs.
The SP books are kind of like- Julia Roberts, meets Magnum P.I., meets the Marx Brothers.
A lot of comedy is found in these novels.

Han shot ONLY. In the original Greedo never even got a shot off. Lucas tried making Han look like a basic b**** by making it look like “self-defense”. Han straight up murdurlated Greedo’s green a**. And THAT was one of the reasons Han was such a bada**… his ‘no f***s given’ attitude. He did not shoot Greedo in self defense… he was the bada** that straight smoked him before he even had a chance. :-P