I've been working on the box design (for the Fire Red deck) and am hoping for some feedback on the two design drafts below (I'm stuck on which one to finalise:))

Any thoughts you have are most welcome!

Both of these look really, really nice. I personally prefer the lower of the 2 images. (Maybe it's the weight of the white circle that slightly disconnects me on the first box. Dunno. Still like both a bunch!)

Just had a chance to look through this thread and its AMAZING. Such great use of color. Be sure to go with a quality printer so that your vision really does come through on the final product. I would hope that this level of quality artwork and attention to detail would open this deck up to a wide audience. Good luck with each step of the process. Hope to hold the deck in my hands one day.

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Just getting started in collecting playing cards. Any help is appreciated. TY.

I think you're making some fine design choices with this deck - I'm eagerly awaiting the release date!

Thank you so much Don truly glad to hear, coming from you.

I'm ever so excited to announce that the ball is now rolling - I have approached Legends and Expert for quotes and once I have figures, I will set up the campaign launch on KS. My plan is to share the page with you guys here, so if anything is amiss - you can hopefully point me in the right direction

Both of these look really, really nice. I personally prefer the lower of the 2 images. (Maybe it's the weight of the white circle that slightly disconnects me on the first box. Dunno. Still like both a bunch!)

Thank you skinny I agree with you, the full front tuck box is working better for me too, though I've reworked the designs slightly (see below) to be absolutely sure

Just had a chance to look through this thread and its AMAZING. Such great use of color. Be sure to go with a quality printer so that your vision really does come through on the final product. I would hope that this level of quality artwork and attention to detail would open this deck up to a wide audience. Good luck with each step of the process. Hope to hold the deck in my hands one day.

Thank you Great Lakes - glad to have you pop in, your kind words mean a lot I have had Legends or Expert (printing co.) in mind from the start of designing this deck and am hoping that all comes together with a successful campaign.

Tuck Box Designs

VIZAĜO - red deck (Lumina):

VIZAĜO - blue deck (Lumino):

... and the aces (mainly clubs and hearts) have received a little reworking to bring them in line with the rest of the deck:

I've been talking to Expert and Legends for past month about printing and we're looking at LPCC to print the deck, which I'm really excited about. I absolutely love the work both these printers do (Nine Lives poker size playing cards were printed by EPCC and I couldn't be happier with the result!

VIZAĜO - KS Preview:I'm currently setting up my campaign to launch VIZAĜO on KS and I'd really, really like some feedback from you awesome people!Preview link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1932537931/1283753267?token=64ab81faPlease note: a bunch of things aren't quite finished yet, I'm still waiting on final figures (which will help set the funding goal and final pricing) and there are more rewards to add. and...

My questions to you (apart from anything else you want to comment on or give me advice on) are:

A few days ago I received sample decks from Legends (LUXX Palme, Knowledge, Legends Egyptian and Porcelain) to compare the different finishes they use. My instant favourite was LUXX Palme (on elite finish) - with Knowledge (on classic) coming in second...

I really like the texture and feel of elite finish, but after testing the different decks out on friends and family last night (and getting mixed reviews), I would like to hear your thoughts on finish (and how much it impacts on whether you like a deck or not). I stumbled on this thread: http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=9246.0 which talks about EPCC Damask (same as LPCC Elite)

Thanks for stopping by and hope you're looking forward to the next stage of this colourful journey!Annette

I've been talking to Expert and Legends for past month about printing and we're looking at LPCC to print the deck, which I'm really excited about. I absolutely love the work both these printers do (Nine Lives poker size playing cards were printed by EPCC and I couldn't be happier with the result!

VIZAĜO - KS Preview:I'm currently setting up my campaign to launch VIZAĜO on KS and I'd really, really like some feedback from you awesome people!Preview link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1932537931/1283753267?token=64ab81faPlease note: a bunch of things aren't quite finished yet, I'm still waiting on final figures (which will help set the funding goal and final pricing) and there are more rewards to add. and...

My questions to you (apart from anything else you want to comment on or give me advice on) are:

A few days ago I received sample decks from Legends (LUXX Palme, Knowledge, Legends Egyptian and Porcelain) to compare the different finishes they use. My instant favourite was LUXX Palme (on elite finish) - with Knowledge (on classic) coming in second...

I really like the texture and feel of elite finish, but after testing the different decks out on friends and family last night (and getting mixed reviews), I would like to hear your thoughts on finish (and how much it impacts on whether you like a deck or not). I stumbled on this thread: http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=9246.0 which talks about EPCC Damask (same as LPCC Elite)

Thanks for stopping by and hope you're looking forward to the next stage of this colourful journey!Annette

My advice:

Shipping: split the difference - let Gambler's fulfill your US orders and Legends fulfill your international orders, unless there's a price disadvantage to doing this. If that's the case, just go with whoever's cheaper.The second color SHOULD be a stretch goal. No reason to let the project tank because the goal is too big. Consider even making a THIRD color as an even further stretch goal. Perhaps purple/pink or purple/magenta...Why hide stretch goals at all? Give people something to salivate over!Synthetic tucks should be STANDARD - they're totally worth it!Damask/Elite is a great choice for this deck in terms of stock.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:59:47 AM by Don Boyer »

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Card Illusionist, NYC Area — Playing Card Design & Development ConsultantServices for Hire

Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. — Mark Twain

Shipping: split the difference - let Gambler's fulfill your US orders and Legends fulfill your international orders, unless there's a price disadvantage to doing this. If that's the case, just go with whoever's cheaper.The second color SHOULD be a stretch goal. No reason to let the project tank because the goal is too big. Consider even making a THIRD color as an even further stretch goal. Perhaps purple/pink or purple/magenta...Why hide stretch goals at all? Give people something to salivate over!Synthetic tucks should be STANDARD - they're totally worth it!Damask/Elite is a great choice for this deck in terms of stock.

Thanks Don - great advice all round

Trying to work out the cost of shipping isn't easy, but I hope to get my head around it.Thanks for the advice on stretch goals, most helpful - Oh and I'm not planning to keep them hidden, it's just that I hadn't got to adding those two to the page Depending on feedback, the final finish will likely be either Elite or Classic - I like both, but want to get it right.

LUXX palme is definitely very soft and smooth. Not sure if it has anything to do with the finish or happens on other elite decks, but on the LUXX, the embossing is somewhat uneven. There are grid lines in boxes about 4 dimples wide. Other finishes have the usual dimples. The Cultura deck says it has elite finish. I have not opened my deck but the tuck back and front also display this grid texture. I would be concerned with the uneven look, especially on a deck with such fine art.

Project page looks great. Will you be adding other tiers (4, 6, 12 decks)? Early birds at the 4 or 6 level would be much appreciated.

LUXX palme is definitely very soft and smooth. Not sure if it has anything to do with the finish or happens on other elite decks, but on the LUXX, the embossing is somewhat uneven. There are grid lines in boxes about 4 dimples wide. Other finishes have the usual dimples. The Cultura deck says it has elite finish. I have not opened my deck but the tuck back and front also display this grid texture. I would be concerned with the uneven look, especially on a deck with such fine art.

Project page looks great. Will you be adding other tiers (4, 6, 12 decks)? Early birds at the 4 or 6 level would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much Mark for your feedback on the Elite finish!

I do love the texture of elite, however, after considering all aspects, I have decided to go with the classic finish (and am confident that it is just right for VIZAĜO).Given that the artwork has a lot going on... a pronounced card texture could easily mean that the two (artwork vs finish) detract from one another. Also, seeing more varied responses to elite compared to both classic and diamond, makes me feel it is the right decision

As to rewards, yes - I have added quite a few rewards (up to brick + 1 uncut) - early birds include 1, 2 and 6. Please check out the updates and let me know of anything you feel needs attention or fixing.

This is an absolutely STUNNING deck Annette! These cards have so much charm and character, and have a immediately striking visual impact.

You are very talented, and have done some great work work in creating these! Major kudos for all the hard work you have put into this. I can't wait to see the final result!

Wishing you the very best for your Kickstarter campaign, and I hope it proves very successful.

Thank you EndersGame, your words are very kind indeed! I have enjoyed every minute of creating the artwork for this deck, and a big part of that has been the amazing feedback here on PCF. I am really looking forward to seeing how VIZAĜO meets the world on KS

With final quotes due any moment, I am eager to set the launch date (and time), which I'm planning for next week... Having the final figures will also allow me to update you on stretch goals and what will be part of the standard deck.

Graduating from Design and Dev to Playing Card Plethora will be a milestone in itself

Pledge tiers are looking good. You may also want to add an additional limited reward tier for wholesalers to the tune of ~ AUD $1000 - $1500 giving them a good deal to back it on Kickstarter itself. I've observed on a few projects that 1 or 2 pledges are made at least for the wholesale tier, and this project might see a great boost if pledges on this tier happens.

However, because I want to get this absolutely right in terms of being able to deliver a stunning deck, the final details are taking a little longer to iron out. I have bombarded the printer with questions and, understandably, they need time to provide costing based on different options. I know that there are brave creators out there who launch while still tinkering with quotes and artwork, yet, being my first KS I tend to feel 'knowledge is my friend'.

Some of the finer details to iron out include:

Spot UV on the tuckbox (on the name VIZAĜO) - likely a standard

Synthetic tuck box - possibly a standard

Interior tuck box 'enhancement' - Stretch goal

Option 1: Metallic foil (red on Lumina / blue on Lumino)... However, I have been advised that foil can rub off on the cards (ouch!) - and so, (especially if foil actually sticks to cards):

However, because I want to get this absolutely right in terms of being able to deliver a stunning deck, the final details are taking a little longer to iron out. I have bombarded the printer with questions and, understandably, they need time to provide costing based on different options. I know that there are brave creators out there who launch while still tinkering with quotes and artwork, yet, being my first KS I tend to feel 'knowledge is my friend'.

Some of the finer details to iron out include:

Spot UV on the tuckbox (on the name VIZAĜO) - likely a standard

Synthetic tuck box - possibly a standard

Interior tuck box 'enhancement' - Stretch goal

Option 1: Metallic foil (red on Lumina / blue on Lumino)... However, I have been advised that foil can rub off on the cards (ouch!) - and so, (especially if foil actually sticks to cards):

I was unaware that there was any risk of transfer with foil interiors. I've heard of it with ink - for this reason, USPC stopped printing box interiors for the NOC deck, forcing Blue Crown to switch to Expert PCC as their printer, which didn't have any issues with inked box interiors.

Any of the three options you've presented should be just fine, really. People go a little crazy with the interior embellishments, in my opinion - sure, they're nice, but we're taking about the INSIDE of a box, the majority of which most people will never even see! Whatever you decide should be just fine.

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Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. — Mark Twain

I was unaware that there was any risk of transfer with foil interiors. I've heard of it with ink - for this reason, USPC stopped printing box interiors for the NOC deck, forcing Blue Crown to switch to Expert PCC as their printer, which didn't have any issues with inked box interiors.

Any of the three options you've presented should be just fine, really. People go a little crazy with the interior embellishments, in my opinion - sure, they're nice, but we're taking about the INSIDE of a box, the majority of which most people will never even see! Whatever you decide should be just fine.

Thanks Don When I think about how much I've learnt from advice from people like your good self, I feel pretty lucky Every step of the way there are choices and decisions to be made, and as my thinking/designing process tends to go the scenic route; testing things out, deliberating and asking questions in order to work things out - all your feedback and support here has been absolutely invaluable

I've now learnt that there are different methods of applying foil, hot-stamping and lamination, where the latter removes any risk of the foil coming off.

However, believing that there could be an issue with foil, I've decided to go with a printed design on the inside (as a stretch goal) - and having printed a (very) rough prototype of the tuck box, gathering opinions from the local tribe, everyone seems to favour the idea of the printed design above foil on the inside. Given that there's no metallic foil on the outside of the box, it probably flows better sticking to the same visual language.

Finalising a few small things and I will be back with a launch date and time

Sweet! I know what I will be doing Tuesday night at 8PM (Beijing Time)

Annette, did you think of offering your Artwork from the deck as a special reward? I am sure that people would be interested and it would boost revenue...just want to make sure that we get that blue deck funded

Sweet! I know what I will be doing Tuesday night at 8PM (Beijing Time)

Annette, did you think of offering your Artwork from the deck as a special reward? I am sure that people would be interested and it would boost revenue...just want to make sure that we get that blue deck funded

That's awesome news Cardfool, thank you

I really like your suggestion to offer the artwork as a special reward, though being my first campaign, I have been hesitant to venture into add-ons that require a different process to the deck itself. Fingers crossed we'll get to the blue deck, I'd love to see both printed

Consider even making a THIRD color as an even further stretch goal. Perhaps purple/pink or purple/magenta...

Annette, I know that you are reluctant to complicate things since this is your first Kickstarter project. But if you find that funding stalls somewhat mid-way through the campaign, and you become concerned that the project won't fund, you might want to consider offering a third deck with a different colour - but not as a stretch goal, but as a limited and numbered edition, and obviously at a higher price.

In your case, as Don suggests, you could possibly make it a purple back (to match the Clubs), or a green back (to match the Diamonds). Naturally it would also have a revised tuck box in that colour as well. To make a limited edition even more unique and attractive, you could have the limited/numbered edition produced on black cards, where the white borders and white faces of your current decks are replaced with black (obviously you'd have to do something with the spades/club pips, either by giving them white borders or making them an alternate colour like brown). The link below is an example of a project that did exactly that. The Limited/numbered version of the deck was black instead of white, and in a higher price-bracket, but it meant that collectors add extra decks to their pledge, and it can increase your funding significantly as a result. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thirdwayind/omnia-the-golden-age-poker-playing-cards

So it would require some extra work on your part (major changes to the artwork wouldn't be necessary though), but maybe it's worth consulting with your printer to see if this is worth exploring now already, for later in your campaign if you need it? Others who have more experience in this area than me might want to comment about whether this is a feasible idea, the appeal it might have, and the impact on overall funding.

Wishing you the very best for the rest of the VIZAGO campaign, Annette!

Thank you for your suggestion EndersGame. I'm curious what others think. You're right in that I'm hesitant to complicate things in this first campaign ...

On a side-note, I had a request to offer Nine Lives playing cards as an add-on - and even though these do need to be shipped from Australia, I can work my way around it. Does offering a completely different deck seem strange in a campaign?

Thank you for your suggestion EndersGame. I'm curious what others think. You're right in that I'm hesitant to complicate things in this first campaign ...

On a side-note, I had a request to offer Nine Lives playing cards as an add-on - and even though these do need to be shipped from Australia, I can work my way around it. Does offering a completely different deck seem strange in a campaign?

Grateful for any thoughts or advice!Annette

Just be careful about running afoul of Kickstarter regulations about what can be offered for rewards. I've seen other campaigns do it, but I'm not 100% sure if it's permissible. The general rule is that the campaign is supposed to be raising money for a product or concept that isn't already made - but there are details and fine print, naturally.

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Card Illusionist, NYC Area — Playing Card Design & Development ConsultantServices for Hire

Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. — Mark Twain