<quoted text>put your money where your foul mouth is.show me who the SECULAR founding fathers were.go ahead, prove your accusations we were founded by secual men and then i want you to PROVE to me that John Qincy Adams ( a significant founding father) didn't say..."The highest glory of the American revolution was this, that it came in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government WITH THE PRINCIPLES OF CHRISTIANITY." John quincy Adams"The bible is the cornerstone of libery. A students perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband." THOMAS JEFFERSON"The bible is the rock on which our republic rests." ANDREW JACKSON"We have staked the future of American civilazation upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves ACCORDING TO THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD." JAMES MADISONevery founding father that constructed our constitution was a man who believed in GOD and the bible as the ultimate truth.history records it and proves it with their own words.just so you don't think i am making it up.....http://swampbubbles.com/bubble/quotes-from-ou...this nation was absolutely not founded on a SECULAR system.because our founding fathers MADE SURE the constitution ensured the freedom to exercise religious freedom WITHOUT the governments interference.they PROTECTED IT.and in the colonial times our leaders held church in the nations capatol building.wouldn't that send the atheists to the looney bins today.....HAHAHAwhat cracks me up is how ANY atheist can even tell themself that when every time they pull out a dollar bill they see, "IN GOD WE TRUST" staring back at them.or to count all the churches and temples across the lands of Americaor to hear the nations motto "ONE NATION UNDER GOD"or to watch presidents being sworn into office with their hand on the HOLY BIBLE while reading passages from the scriptures.or when a crisis happens and they flip in the news they see our leaders saying we must look to GOD for our guidence ....and when congress opens sessions with prayers.WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE KIDDING?you are an unbeliever living in a nation founded upon the belief in GOD and the bible.

Here- just for starters- if you want more quotes from our founding fathers to illustrate their disdain of religion and Christianity in particular, do let me know....but it wouldn't be until later on today or maybe not until tomorrow as I am heading out in just a very few minutes.

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone onman...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon theteachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the first great corruptor of the teachings of Jesus."

<quoted text>YOU are out of your mind.the NYT just ran an article not long back about how DETROIT was out of control, the crime rate TRIPLING.they don't have enough police there to handle the thousands of gang memebers murdering and killing people every day.they tell people if you go to detroit do so at your own risk.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/detr...crime is very much on the rise.the more unemployment we experience the worse that makes it to.

LOL!! You are using what has ALWAYS been a crime-ridden city- DETROIT-as representational of the thousands and thousands of cities across America? LOL!!!

Uh....no......what has baffled crime experts is that DESPITE the rise in unemployment, crime rates across the nation are down significantly and dramatically.

What happened to your promised peace and fruits of the spirits? Don't you mind that you were promised these? You're in a deal with people that have already failed to keep their part of the bargain. Can you move a mountain with faith? Did your god return soon as promised?

When are you going to realize that you've been swindled not just out of your tithes and your time, but also your only shot at an authentic existence, for nothing in return but promises from proven liars?

i would really like to ask you ONE questionand who knows maybe HL will give you permission to answer it.....maybe not.

you live in canada......... you have all the so called 'free rights' there to endorse 'queerly beloved' AND you have even gone so far in Canada now to make laws punishing folks who dare oppose it. you jail and fine people for objecting to sexual immorality there, and even your system not forbids parents from opting their children out of classes teaching them all about the 'ins and outs' of homosexuality.even your private schools are now under attack to forbid parents or teachers from disengaging in classes on homosexuality.

you have everything you want right where you areyou should be as happy as a buzzard feasting on road kill, but your not........WHY IS THAT?

why are you sticking your nose in the American system? why are you not satisfied with your liberal and secular socialist country? if you were you wouldn't be trying to meddle in how OUR country is governed.

or could it be that sneeky little pesty AGENDA that says, the whole world must agree with gays ... or else?

my advice to you booots would be to stop worrying about how we choose to govern our states here and worry about your own neighbor there.you have your 'equal rights' to call sexual immorality a legal right there, you are not an American or live here in America booootsso stop pushing and peddling your love of smut on our doorstep.

<quoted text>One minor point: In the US, they don't make beer.:DSo what are you working on? Are you affiliated with any Universities and what is your research on?I have a (pretty good) laymen's knowledge of the Mesozoic, as I have always had an interest in paleontology, especially involving dinosaurs. Would love to know if you know anything about the thory that Nanotyrannus was actually a juvenile T-Rex?

Nah, I only have a lowly bachelor of science degree and I got into retail sales of all things. For the last couple of years or so I have been brushing up on the old knowledge by debating on websites.

And we do have some pretty good beer in the U.S., you just have to avoid the major brand names. We have microbrewries that will match anything you guys have. Of course we drank Coors and Bud in those days, long before microbreweries came out.

<quoted text>Yes, it might be seen as "unnatural" by the gay person having sex with someone of the opposite sex.But if a gay woman wants a baby badly enough and can't afford artificial insemination and/or likes as a PERSON the straight guy she has sex with and would like that person to be the father of their child, then whatever "unnaturalness" they might feel about engaging in sex with a member of the opposite sex would be secondary at the very least.As far as what you say about gay marriage, it has already been passed into law in 8 states and I think it will become legal in all 50 states in time.

Yep, it is just a matter of time. I am going to be voting for it this fall. Does your 8 states included Washington State? It was passed by the legislature but it is now under referendum which means the people have the final say so.

<quoted text>Yo!! Orange dude... Have you figured out how to answer my question on your "gay religion" comment?What is a "gay religion"? I'm still waiting for you to respond.

I wasn't being literal, there is no such thing as an actual religion with some homosexual deity with his homosexuality to being the main thing about the religion. I was saying there fanatic wants for homosexuality, and their perverted brains making them have a strong desire for gay homosexuality, they are earthly beings, no more than seeking worthless pleasure through homosexual fetishes.

<quoted text>how about instead i tell YOU that no CHRISTIAN sued over the billboards.When we get involved is when you God haters try to remove monuments and crosses and things that have been in place for decades..........you can spew all the anti-God garbage you want to.you have every right to..........but your right ends when it infringes on my right to express my faith and exercise my religion freely.

Just because something has been in place for decades does not mean that it is right and has to stay where it is. Lets use all of those "Whites Only" signs as an example. They were in place for years and they are now gone. How about all of those billboards where a "doctor" was extolling about a brand of cigarettes...that too has gone the way of the dinosaurs. Welcome to the 21st century "yellodog", a century where many people refuse to be led around like sheep just because their "god" says so. A century where freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion and where our government does not break it's own laws by sponsoring or favoring a specific religion or "god" over another as it has been doing.

You can scream all you want about the infringement on your rights and faith, and your ability to exercise your religion freely....scream away, I invite you to list where your rights have been infringed upon though we both know that it is not being taken away from you but it is being put in it's proper place as it should have been put in the first place. Your "god" has no place in my government (which coincedentally is yours as well) to include public schools, public parks, public buildings AND all government facilities and land.

Now be a good little girl and start your list of how your religious rights are being taken away.

<quoted text>I wasn't being literal, there is no such thing as an actual religion with some homosexual deity with his homosexuality to being the main thing about the religion. I was saying there fanatic wants for homosexuality, and their perverted brains making them have a strong desire for gay homosexuality, they are earthly beings, no more than seeking worthless pleasure through homosexual fetishes.

Very well...thank-you for answering, there are so few that will do that.

Obviously I do not agree with your opinion of homosexuality. You do not like that people are attracted to someone of the same sex, that is obvious. But calling their attraction perverse or a fetish is incorrect. Look at it this way...two men engage in sex behind closed doors...fine, their business, what harm is it doing to you? Those same two men are also in love with each other, in a committed relationship with each other (depending on the state they may also be married)...where is the "fetish" of two people in love with each other? Where is the perverseness of two people in love?

Do you think people of the same sex can love one another? Have actual emotional feeling of love for one another? You (as well as many others) seem to be stuck on the aspect of physical sex when it comes to homosexuality. You think it is icky, gorss, an abomination etc. when all it is is the physical expression of two adults towards each other. Sure they may not be in love or it may just be so that each can mutually "get off"...how is that any different than those who are heterosexual who do the exact same thing just with different methods?

<quoted text>put your money where your foul mouth is.show me who the SECULAR founding fathers were.go ahead, prove your accusations we were founded by secual men and then i want you to PROVE to me that John Qincy Adams ( a significant founding father) didn't say..."The highest glory of the American revolution was this, that it came in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government WITH THE PRINCIPLES OF CHRISTIANITY." John quincy Adams...[trimmed for space and emphasis]

First off, OCB asserted the United States was a founded as a secular nation; she said nothing about the Founders being secular or non-religious. But your illiteracy and reading comprehension issues aside, here is the proof you seek of the United States' status as a secular nation.

The Treaty of Tripoli was negotiated on behalf of President John Adams, who submitted it to the US Senate as required by the constitution and where it was unanimously ratified on June 7, 1797 and became effective on July 10, 1797. The treaty contained the following article:

"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." (link: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tr... )

Article 6 clause 2 of the US Constitution provides that duly ratified treaties are considered the supreme law of the land on par with the constitution itself:

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." (link: http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/artic... )

So the Treaty of Tripoli language declaring the US was not "founded on the Christian religion" is considered the "supreme law of the land".

Funny that USN mentioned doctors promoting cigarettes....What else would they do? Back then, science "knew" cigarettes were good for ya...And almost everybody smoked.Ya see? Science makes HUGE mistakes all the time...

Evolution gave man a conscience and a proclivity to doubt and reason. Your religion tries to disable them both in order to substitute the values of your priest for the natural ones.

The supreme Christian value is obedience to the god as the priests define it. Good is defined as whatever the god says or does, including keeping souls alive for eternity just to torture them, or creating Satan and setting him loose on earth.

The conscience knows better, and questions that. But the priests will tell that your mind is too puny to understand the perfect goodness, perfect love, and perfect justice of such behavior.

And if you question them a second time, they'll tell you that the doubt is from Satan, and insist that you ignore it.

And if you still question them, they'll do to you whatever the law allows. When that was stoning, the Pharisees stoned you.

When that was impaling you with the iron maiden and twisting you on the rack, the inquisitors did that.

When that was burning you at the stake, the reverends and ministers did that.

Now, they can only punish you with guilt, fear, social ostracism, and persecution.

People that call your natural tendency to question unreasonable claims and unjust actions your "sin nature" and "Satan" and are not acting in your best interests. They are acting in their own best interest.

this nation was absolutely not founded on a SECULAR system.because our founding fathers MADE SURE the constitution ensured the freedom to exercise religious freedom WITHOUT the governments interference.they PROTECTED IT.and in the colonial times our leaders held church in the nations capatol building.wouldn't that send the atheists to the looney bins today.....HAHAHA

what cracks me up is how ANY atheist can even tell themself that when every time they pull out a dollar bill they see, "IN GOD WE TRUST" staring back at them.or to count all the churches and temples across the lands of Americaor to hear the nations motto "ONE NATION UNDER GOD"or to watch presidents being sworn into office with their hand on the HOLY BIBLE while reading passages from the scriptures.or when a crisis happens and they flip in the news they see our leaders saying we must look to GOD for our guidence ....and when congress opens sessions with prayers.

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE KIDDING?

you are an unbeliever living in a nation founded upon the belief in GOD and the bible.

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. Thomas Jefferson

USN - Be a good little boy & tell us how your free rights are infringed upon due to religion...I'll wait.Google is free.Do tell..........

I am not the one whining about rights being trampled over.

Personally I do not care if the 10 commandments are on the lawn of a county courthouse.I do not care if prayers to "god" are said before a government meeting.I do not care if someone is sworn to tell the truth with their hand on a bible...it is only a symbolic gesture anyway.I do not care if someone wishes me a Merry Christmas as I will say it in return or will initiate it myself to them.

However I will say again that I am thankful that smarter heads prevailed by taking references of a "god" out of public schools as it does not belong there. I do not pay taxes to have my children learn something that should be taught at a worship center of my choosing. Indoctrinating my children to believe in a "god" will not provide the education needed to be a productive member of society.

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