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You both need to get a depth psychotherapy. Counseling and supportive therapy will be ineffective for you at this point. You have characterological issues that are in your way. These are NOT traits of character but states that are inflexible (your words). This in indicative of character pathology. That is the bad news. The good news is that it is fixable with appropriate treatment.

Depending on your age and the severity of violence acted upon you and your sister when occurred you can get through this with help. Hang in there and PLEASE get help. Your tranference and displacement of this pain and trauma is Hemorrhaging into your current relations and will continue until you get help.

If I remember correctly, Easy Read was a psychoanalyst....

I am not a professional, but I agree that there was "lots" of pathology in OP's last post. The pathology is not as simple as "hating women", being a "lioness" or even "manipulating" people. It goes back to how your belief system was altered "forever" (unless you work very hard to change your beliefs) when the abuse occurred.

I believe that your pathology is as apparent as your sister's, it just manifests itself in a different way. You sound more angry at your sister, than at the perpetrator.....

I tend to disagree with this statement. Perhaps some pedophiles may be abusive and have some overlap, but I do not believe the energy is the same. My dad, for instance was a very abusive person, yet he was not a pedophile or even a physical abuser. So I believe the issues become different. Anyway, just a thought. What do others with the double experience think?

This is a bit of an aside....I'm attending college....my professor a PhD has worked in all areas of mental health, and with criminals. He strongly advocates therapy for the sickest individuals. The only group of people he will not work with is pedophiles....he has tried on many occasions. For the most part, the thinking is so rigid, that they will not even admit what they've done.

If that's the case, there is no hope of improvement.

Pedophiles belong is a class of their own....not under the general "abuse" heading.....

As for avoiding someone with a bias - a little different than avoiding a whole segment of society because you've classified them as having a defect due to their childhood experiences. I was just saying that you're closing yourself off to a whole section of society.

There seems to be a lot of bashing of people who were molested as children. There are some positives to come out of the experience for the person that's been abused (I dispise the word 'victim'), like:

EmpathyCompassionStrong sense of right and wrongUsually quite good at dealing with emergenciesSelf knowledge (you really have no choice but to grow from the experience)Strong desire to protect people who are vulnerable (especially children)Very loyal to those they do trust

I'm not glad it happened to me and but I am determined to make the best of what happened. There's no sense in letting the experience paint my world all black. We also deserve some light too.

As a sexual abuse counselor I have only one comment about the wording of this thread.

As long as you use the word victim you will stay in the victim mode. The minute someone comes int our Sexual Abuse center it is made clear that the word vicitim is not used. You are only a victim while in the situation.....once out you become a survivor.

Can you see how much more positive a word survivor is then victim? When I hear someone call themselves a victim I know they are not anywhere near into their healing process.

Women and men who have experienced sexual abuse,WE are SURVIVORS......If you are not in that mode of thinking please see someone who's speciality is Sexual Abuse Counseling. As long as you call yourself a victim you are still giving the perp some control over your life.

Why not? After all, you think you deserve a "Type A". Why is it ok for you and not ok for me?

Rock Hunter and men who have the same kind of view have already branded all of us.

Pot, meet kettle. You have branded all men who aren't willing to sacrifice themselves to make you feel better as "not Type A" and state that "you have no respect for him". You demand men to "prove themselves to you", therefore you have branded them as potential abusers until they prove otherwise.

Geez, Rock Hunter, obviously the OP wanted to share information about how other people who've been molested handle their dating lives, not start a pissing match. Any chance you and the OP can just agree to disagree?

Actually I wasn't starting a pissing match, and my first post was on topic: Speaking from the other side of the dating equation, I mentioned several attitudes held by former victims that could harm their dating lives, attitudes I saw in previous postings.

As in several other "victim" threads, I've found a lot of "they owe me" attitude. And that's the most harmful attitude. The only person who "owes" them is the person who actually harmed them. To bash those who don't want to be held accountable by somebody else's actions ("weak", "have no respect", etc.) is ridiculous. They don't owe you anything, not a date, not a relationship and certainly not a life.

And while they don't get over this attitude, they will keep having dating woes.

But hey, you're right and it may become a pissing match. So since I've said what I wanted to say, good bye.

Preface this with, these are all just my opinions. Right or wrong, take them as they are.As one of the 'survivors' of being a 'long term victim' here, I have something to say. Yes, I'm a survivor; no, my life isn't perfect. Yes, therapy is a good start, with a 'professional', but most professionals are just average (and unfortunately, some worse), and if you're going to get better, you're going to have to become the expert on yourself. Because just like any other job, most therapists are 'average'; most of them only know what they learned in school, and haven't made any great strides since (at least that's been my experience, just like most other professions). They need to fit you into a category so they can structure your 'treatment' in a particular way, because that's what they've learned to do. As tanzanite experienced, there are a whole lot of crackpot therapists out there, and 'professional' help isn't always all it's cracked up to be. It's sad that so many people think 'getting into therapy with a professional' is the only solution.

I don't think that rock hunter is way over the top concerning what he wants; we all have limits on what we want to deal with in a relationship. Some of us can deal with psychological traumas, and others can't. A lot of us who have been 'through the mill' have learned how to cope; maybe he can't. After all, it took decades for me to be able to deal with everything that happened to me, I shouldn't expect instant understanding from someone else. Maybe he'd be better with someone who was physically disabled, who knows. We have strengths and weaknesses, and have to learn what we can do, and what we can't. Trying to take on more than we can handle, while it might feel or seem noble, is a mistake. After all, we, or at least I, do carry some things that aren't part of a normal relationship, and may at times need psychological support from my mate. If rock hunter is unable to give that to a partner, then he shouldn't have to. And no, he doesn't deserve to have to prove himself over and over in a relationship either.

Pretty moon, I know you've been taught that, but it's just wrong. Admitting to have been a victim, does not make you live as a victim forever. Maybe avoiding the term 'victim' works in the short term to increase someone's self esteem, but as far as the survivor/victim terminology, changing the identifier does not change what happened. We are both; and must admit to that. There's nothing inherently wrong with the word 'victim'; politically correct speech doesn't change things; learning how to deal with having IN THE PAST been victimized to something, will. Trying to eliminate the idea that the abused person is a victim, and you also quietly remove the recognition of the responsibility for the act, and all that results from it, which lays with the abuser, and accepting that THAT PERSON is responsible for what happened, not you. So many of us blamed ourselves for what happened to us, that remembering that it was not our fault is one of the most important keys to getting better. Continuing to be a victim of abuse is a whole 'nuther problem.

Quazi, pedophilia is hard to treat, because you're trying to change what someone is attracted to, and I don't think that's always possible (A person can control what he does with that attraction, yes; but I'm not sure you can change it. I'm attracted to tall slim women with long straight hair; round, fat women turn me off. Can I reverse that? I'm not sure; I haven't been able to do it so far).There was a case in I think Florida, where a convicted pedophile was about to be released; he plead to remain in prison, knowing that if released, he would most likely abuse another child, as he did not feel able to control his urges. The authorities couldn't accept that. I don't know what happened with him after the headlines lost interest. I hope they gave in to his wishes.

Brooker, 'turning it around' is a common problem, because it almost always winds up with faulty logic. The mass media spouts headline news of a pedophile case, and says 'Most child abusers were abused themselves, and so if someone has a history of being abused, he is likely to become an abuser himself'. Now, that statement is wrong; but I've passed this concept by a lot of 'educated' folks with doctorates, and it's surprising how many believe it to be true. So, using faulty logic is an easy way for it to be branded a 'crackpot' theory. But yes, as more coping mechanisms fail, more disorders tend to crop up.

I can't equate pedophilia to my own 'curse', crossdressing. But I do know that it seems neither is treatable; we can control it, but not eliminate the desire. Only in my case, it doesn't hurt anyone else, it just decreases my dating pool.

Oddly enough, I've written all of this in these forums before. Deja vu. I think we've gotten away from the initial question.

I am not a victim of sexual abuse, but I think everyone has felt some type of pain. Yes sex abuse is rough, but there are a lot of rough events we have to deal with. A lot of what I have been reading is a bit speculative, especially when it comes to attraction.

Rock Hunter stated he would not date a victim of abuse, but who wears a sign saying so? There are victims of divorce, parental abandonment, and the list goes on. What matters is what we do with our circumstances. Each person should be treated individually and Rock Hunter states this, but sweeps everyone who has experienced sexual abuse with a broad stroke. If I had a nickel for every time someone said they would not date a certain "type," I would be rich!

I had an uncle who only dated slim blonds for twenty years. He fell in love with a curvy brunette and married her. I have gone out with guys who ONLY dated athletic women and I ended up dating them for a couple of years. Attraction is a funny thing. It is based on a lot more than just visual cues.

I would assume pedophila is akin to an extreme form of fetish. There are men and women who get off with sadomasicism. A few people have other fetishes. I interviewed a psychiatrist who works with BDSM and S/M individuals. A good majority had been sexually abused. There is a strong connection of how our bodies store emotions. This would make sense with an interest in this area.

I did have a seven year relationship with a man who was sexually abused. He was overly sexual in the beginning, but once the relationship was under way, he turned into a prude. He used sex as a form of currency. He would never deal with his issues around it and I found out by chance from his sister.

I could have a relationship with someone who had been abused if he was working with his issues. That would be the same with anyone who had issues. As long as the person is trying, is all I ask for.

I did have a seven year relationship with a man who was sexually abused. He was overly sexual in the beginning, but once the relationship was under way, he turned into a prude. He used sex as a form of currency. He would never deal with his issues around it

THAT is fascinating! I have had suspicions that my ex might have been sexually abused or shamed, and that is why this thread interests me. He fits most of the criteria for BPD as well.

Your quote above describes our sexual history (and that of two of his previous relationships as well). Two years of the most incredible sex that turned platonic/ child-like in the third year. It was devastating and bewildering.

I would assume pedophila is akin to an extreme form of fetish. There are men and women who get off with sadomasicism. A few people have other fetishes. I interviewed a psychiatrist who works with BDSM and S/M individuals. A good majority had been sexually abused. There is a strong connection of how our bodies store emotions. This would make sense with an interest in this area.

Pedophilia is not an extreme form of fetish.

Pedophiles feel "out of control" of their lives. They gain "control" by controlling weaker, more vulnerable individuals.....children.

Stress, anxiety and anger, will build up to an intolerable level, and must be released.

Only 3 percent of "true" pedophiles admit their wrongdoings to ANYBODY...including therapists.

Not all pedophiles are "true" pedophiles...this can include second generation abusers who were abused themselves, and commit abuse, but when tested for sexual preference, actually prefer adults.....again, the "control" issue.

Well, I did not say it was a fetish, but a fetish is a fixation to get sexual release. Say someone has a foot fetish, the feet would have something to do with the person being able to function. I am making a comparison not stating it is a fact.

I have heard many theories on pedophilia. There is disagreement among "experts" in the fields of psychology and human sexuality about it. Just read some of the posts.

Not all pedophiles are "true" pedophiles...this can include second generation abusers who were abused themselves, and commit abuse, but when tested for sexual preference, actually prefer adults

What a concept; a 'true' and a 'false' pedophile. I call bullsh!t on that one; if you're f^cking children, you're a pedophile; if you're teaching a 6 year old child to suck on your penis, and using all kinds of manipulative tricks to do so, you're a pedophile. One of the ideas that came up in discussion was that one of the reasons they do it is to justify to themselves (after they were abused) that THEY are normal; that it's 'normal' and acceptable to do. After all, if they turned out alright, then having sex with children was perfectly alright as well, and they were just behaving 'normally'. And so they perpetuate the abuse. It sounded bizarre enough to be true. As an adult, I've never know anyone that was pedophile (yes, I'm sure I've known some, but I don't know who they are), so I don't know if this could be correct, but in a twisted person's mind (again, using faulty logic to support themselves), I can see someone justifying their behavior in this way. My abuser was definitely one of these 'second generation' pedophiles. He was far too young (in an era before the internet) to know how to manipulate me, and how to teach me to do the things he did, unless someone else did it to him. Do I forgive him? No. He definitely knew what he was doing was wrong. Have I put it in my past? Yes. Moving forward is the only way to live. If I ever meet him again, though, I will be more than happy to punch him in the face. Just once....right in the middle....I'm sure he'd understand. Sometimes you just have to do what feels right.

How very unfortunate Daisy, for both you and your sister and it is so hard to believe how many times I have heard the same scenario from other siblings within a family unit. There are lot of boys and girls who are sexually abused/influenced before coming to the age of understanding of their own sexuality. Girls are more likely to be sexually abused because they have been brainwashed by religion and society to be more submissive than boys, but the sexual abuse of boys also has some very negative effects.

Not all psychologists/psychiatrists are experts in this area and can actually cause more psychological damage.......they might have the university education, but they can't apply what they have learned to real life. In Canada, there are sexual assault centres in every major city and there is a greater likelihood of finding a good therapist there. Your step-father caused the problem, but your mother continued to allow it to happen after you alerted her to the problem...........they are both equally responsible. Your mother may have ignored it for financial reasons or her lack of ability to adequately support the family without your step-father's income. So, would it be safe to say that you hate your step-father more and your sister hates your mother more and consequently hates all women.

I guess my point is, you and your sister stopped being a victim when you left your family unit (step-father and mother) years ago................isn't it time for some serious healing? You both deserve a rich, rewarding and happy life.......don't hesitate to find it.

If you still have a relationship with your step-father and mother, my question would be why would you continue a relationship with your abuser and the person who failed to protect you.

THAT is fascinating! I have had suspicions that my ex might have been sexually abused or shamed, and that is why this thread interests me. He fits most of the criteria for BPD as well.

On behalf of people who've been molested please let me request that you stop trying to diagnose us. Sexual abuse causes maladaptive behaviors in order to cope with a traumatic situation. Children are easily manipulated and in order to survive we developed methods to keep our sanity. These behaviors can follow us into adulthood and we need support in order to learn new, effective ways to handle life's situations.

These behaviors can have a negative impact on adult relationships. It's important for the survivor to recognize these impacts and find a way to move beyond the abuse. Being diagnosed by amateur, armchair psychologists isn't helpful. It shows a lack of respect for the person who endured the abuse. If you want to help be supportive and assist the person in finding answers to their maladaptive behavior, thereby helping them to change it.

I think it causes u to not trust men in general. I think they have to prove themselves also. Some women react one way while others go totally in the other direction. It's just how each of us chose to deal with it.

I developed a lot of deep-seeded guilt and low self esteem. When my mother stopped taking her medication, was 12 years old, and I was just reaching sexuality. I barely even knew what was going on downstairs at that time, and even that made me feel like a freak.

Then when the touching started is when the guilt began. It's complicated why i feel the guilt and perhaps too graphic so I won't explain.

But I do. For the longest time, I've felt like a freak, and something without out worth. Ever since, I've always thought of any woman or girl I've had an attraction to, to be too good for me. The reason? I was attracted to them, thus, they were too good for me. Because the fact that I was attracted to them made them too good for me.

It has pretty much emasculated me, while I think of myself as a man; I hardly think I'm masculine. I have many feminine traits, and I perceive the world of dating more like a female than a male. I'd prefer to be the persued, rather than the persuer.

I've come to realise that I form co-dependent relationships with people. My whole life, i've felt insignificant and worthless, so it's made me go to extra heights to impress people. I also avoid all conflict, and try to advert situations when I could. These days, I've thrown myself into isolation, and spend the most of my life alone.

At 23 years old, i've never had a girlfriend, nor have I been in any intimate contact beyond a friendly hug with a woman. I've found that deep inside me, I often find some sadistic hatred for women. I don't necessarily hate women, but there is a small part of me that wants to hurt women - not physically, mind you. But emotionally. I tend to find women who actually *Do* persue me to be the ones that I want to hurt.

I feel sometimes, that I want to make them feel worthless, and rejected - as I have my whole life. A few times, when some rather beautiful women were attracted to me, and flirted with me; I found that is when I would be outright mean or passively not interested. Even if I was. At first, I really didn't understand why I would act that way with women, or perhaps denying why I did it.

My therapist and I have pretty much pinned that it's the pleasure I get from seeing a girl feel rejected and being able to hurt them that is what has made me do it in the past. I have not actively tried to hurt women - physically or emotionally. So I've not become an 'abuser'.

My therapist, though, and I agree, that I could have been an abuser. to expand further, the way I like to 'hurt' people, is to make them feel rejected by me, I guess to make myself feel good, and to take her down a notch. I only do this with women, and even if I liked them. I haven't done this though in over 3 years. so I am making progress.

Despite that last paragraph, to any woman who doesn't persue me actively or try to flirt with me, I'm very pleasant. I often put women on an 'unattainable pedestal' (i've heard it before). I don't do that very often anymore, and I see women as more my equal now - then say college, in which I was not in therapy at the time.

I often avoid making small-talk with people, and keep to myself, and still never persue women I'm in interested in, in the real world. I know that has to be the next big step up in my progress, is to be more extroverted. As my Highschool English teacher said to my sister last year (She's 17 now and had my old english teacher - they talk about me a lot)

On behalf of people who've been molested please let me request that you stop trying to diagnose us.

I am not trying to diagnose you. I am relating to this thread from my own experience, which still remains a mystery that has profoundly affected me.

If you want to help, be supportive and assist the person in finding answers to their maladaptive behavior

I tried very hard to do just that in *my* relationship that pertains to this thread. And before you accuse me, BPD was never mentioned because I had never heard of the condition until the end of the relationship (5+ years). I am still working on my own issues (partly resulting from that relationship) and am humanly seeking to make sense out of unsensible, to latch on to anything that resembles what I went through. Deep down, I know the answer is to let go, but I'm not there yet.

What I'm still stuck in, is diagnosing something deeply personal and I apologise if it comes across as trying to diagnose everyone who was molested as a child.

some reason like a magnet women who have been sexual abuse as children have connected with me... maybe because i was a safe place for my foster sister to go when we were growing up...

i married into a family that had 3 girls, all violated by step dad....

all 3 related to men differently, and differently as they went through there forties.... my wife was caring and loving most of our 30 yr marrige but totally fliped out at age 43... and took all of her past anger for her dad out on me and our boys....

i think it is interesting how that while they were adolescence they played different roles in relating to this creep ( one resistant, one completely shut down the other wanting to always please. ) but all i think were doing what they could to survive...

my heart go out to anyone that has had to go through forced abuse... it is the abusers fault and problem, give it back to them!!!!

Not all pedophiles are "true" pedophiles...this can include second generation abusers who were abused themselves, and commit abuse, but when tested for sexual preference, actually prefer adults.....again, the "control" issue.

I am quoting my own post.....

I do not condone pedophilia in any shape or form. I believe that pedophile's who's sexual preference is children should be castrated.

However, some adolescents who have been sexually abused are confused about their sexuality, because of their abuse. This kind of pedophilia is sometimes temporary.

Stringent tests for sexual preference can be given at certain facilities where the penile response to different stimuli is measured scientifically. It isn't the mouth that's doing the talking here.....

Obviously the pedophile in this case, realizes that what they are doing is wrong, and stops doing it, and never does it again.....they have no desire to. Usually, they have huge feelings of remorse (as they should) and they add these to the "baggage" that they carry from being abused.

I am not condoning this scenario, however, I don't believe that these cases should be dealt with in the same way as pedophiles whose sexual preference is children.

I dunno I read thru this entire thread and what truly is happening in the world is scary indeed.............. I watched the Oprah episode on pedophilia this past week and was just amazed at how many people in the US engage in cyber activity perpetrated on young children... at the end of the show she asked the audience and viewers to contact senators regarding a new bill to get more funding and more or these people behind bars.. but judging by watching the scope thru that computer generated "gps" like map of how one site leads to so many onlookers .. I don't think that North America has enough jail cells to house all of the perps we live amongst .......... One thing it did for sure is make me even more uncomfortable about meeting mister right because I am now certain that this deviancy of human behaviour is more prevalent than I had originally thought ..... It saddens me when the mind of a human is not capable of reaching its true inner greatness as a "god" like creature because someone has destroyed the inner sanctity of their personal growth and emotional intelligence, someone has destroyed the child that was and stripped their self worth to survival mode where there is no room for creativity or decision skills ... that their innocence and greatness and capacity to see and feel love beyond is shattered as is their courage to be all of who they should be ..... I realize life is not fair but to destroy the proper nurturance and development of what love is to a human mind and how it should develop is our biggest disease and ultimately what could annihilate our species from evolving ............. or maybe thru DNA this is what was meant to be .... this thought is disturbing but nonetheless concurrent truism with what behaviour uncovers... {There are so many who walk among us in a fog, incapable of seeing you or what is present on earth for them because their presence was arrested a long time ago when their innocence was removed from their beings and replaced with despair and uncertainty. } I am not certain that society can do anything to alleviate this deviancy from the masses, all I know is that it was my job to raise my children devoid of this poison, to be safe and to be loved ...... that is all one person can do... as for dating If you are whole and present you will not allow your molecules to be abused .. it is not difficult to see when you are present in your own life ... I wish to that the little girl in all the hearts of these women who have written in this thread who had the innocent child of their beings abused that they are healed and that you can soon grasp all of your days left on this planet engaging fully and lovingly in all of who you need to be for you .... and to embrace your greatness as to who you are..... you will not only survive that abuse ........ you have the right to prevail and live whole and full lives .. surrounded by your own kindness and retrieving that innocent child that was in you long ago.....

"There are some positives to come out of the experience for the person that's been abused (I dispise the word 'victim'), like:

EmpathyCompassionStrong sense of right and wrongUsually quite good at dealing with emergenciesSelf knowledge (you really have no choice but to grow from the experience)Strong desire to protect people who are vulnerable (especially children)Very loyal to those they do trust

I'm not glad it happened to me and but I am determined to make the best of what happened. There's no sense in letting the experience paint my world all black. We also deserve some light too."I am right with you there, its how I have looked at it too.

"I believe that pedophile's who's sexual preference is children should be castrated."With a rusty knife would be nice, but it won't stop the abuse, nor do I see it stopping the need for them to abuse.

The one spot in here where it does actually relate to what the OP was originally asking , is I have never had any hang ups about men. I always knew that not all men are like the one my mom married. I knew I hadn't done anything to make him come after me. There have been times that it has affected me in a relationship, but only when someting was said or done that triggered a flash back. I had no fear of the person I was with but all that past fear would just be there, and I would need some time to come back down from it, but there was never any anger or anything negative towards who said it, they didn't know. Everyone heals differently and needs help differently.

OP your sister and mine sound very similar in how they act, but mine milks the abuse to get what she wants, to the point that she uses the guilt our abuser has against him.She also lies about the extent of her abuse (a fact I found out very recently). I carried around alot of guilt about her abuse because I felt that was my fault for not speaking up sooner. I now just want nothing to do with her, the abuse did not make her how she is now she has always been this way, it just gives her an excuse (in her mind) to act the way she does.

If there is anyone who has made it to the point of forgiveness I would very much like to know how you did it.

If there is anyone who has made it to the point of forgiveness I would very much like to know how you did it.

I have....because it was essential to my well being.

Forgiveness does not mean that you need that person in your life. And it doesn not seek to right a wrong. It's an understanding that we are ALL capable of making mistakes and hurting others. Plus, I no longer wanted in ANY way for my abusers to have even the slightest bit of power over my thoughts.

The only wrong that has power is the one we give power.

Both of my perps were dead at the time I gave forgiveness and with both I went to the cemetaries where they were buried. I took a stick...........a big stick and beat the ground where they lay till I was near exhaustion......I got everything out I needed to say......forgave them both, wished them peace and left.

I have gone with survivors to do a one on one in jail with their perps. Most of the time they came out of there with forgiveness in their heart because they were ready to do so. Not to say it wasnt tramatic, but the one thing I think many of the survivors realized upon leaving.........was how utterly pathetic their perps were.