So, I think I posted this video by Hickok45 in another thread. I thought it was one of the coolest things ever, and given that A) I have a pistol can ordered, and B) work paid a bonus that just about covered the cost of the rifle pistol, I wanted one too. But since my can is for .45 caliber, and I already have a western style revolver in .45 Colt, I wanted mine in .45 because 'Merica, I guess. Bud's gun shop happened to put them on sale (the .45 version only) a few weeks ago for something like $372 or so, which kept the total under $400 even with shipping to Alaska. They already had my gunsmith friend listed as one of their preferred FFLs which made it way too easy.

It took a while for them to ship it, but it was finally delivered Monday and I picked it up tonight. Gunsmith friend kind of looks down his nose at some of the stuff I buy, but even he had to admit that it will actually make some sense as an SBR. He's not terribly keen on threading it, so I may have to take it elsewhere for that. I'd brought a couple boxes of .45 Colt reloads and my range bag, so I was able to hit the range and try it out on my way home.

One of the bad things about the range where I shoot, is at sunset the sun is directly in your eyes, so I could barely see the target at all. The main goal was to function check to make sure I hadn't gotten a lemon prior to e-filing a form on it, so not actually being able to hit anything wasn't the end of the world anyway. The good news is the rifle cycled my LSWC reloads perfectly... It has some sharp edges around the loading gate, but once the rounds were loaded everything worked as it should. Bad news was I couldn't seem to hit much, even towards the end after the sun went down and I could see both the sights and the target. Since it's a handgun, I fired the last couple magazines full one handed in a bullseye stance and seemed to hit the steel plate better that way. Vaguely had an idea that it was shooting to the left.

Got it home and under the light in my shop for a closer examination, and to check a couple things. Right away I found the reason I couldn't seem to hit anything:

Not sure yet if the sight is bad or the dovetail is crooked, but either way, that will do it. I was planning on getting different sights anyway, but that's pretty bad. Not sure yet what kind of rear sights I am going to get, since there are several styles of peeps, although depending on what I choose I may need to have the barrel or the tang drilled and tapped. I might even have it drilled and tapped for a scout mount, and put a basic red dot on it, just forward of the receiver.

Outside diameter of the barrel at the muzzle is about .645", tapering up to .650" or so in front of the barrel band. Which means that getting it threaded 5/8-24 to fit the fixed barrel rear cap I have for the Silencerco Octane 45 can I ordered is probably sketchy at best... It will most likely end up at .578-28 like they thread a .45ACP pistol for. At .645", it's a lot meatier than say a 1911 barrel, so that should work okay I think. Downside is SiCo doesn't make a straight fixed barrel rear cap for that thread size, so I would have to use a regular piston with a fixed barrel spacer. Mostly that seems to mean the cost of the project just went up by however much I have to pay for those parts. The easy button would have been to get the .357 version since there is plenty of meat then to thread 1/2-28. There seems to be a couple different ways to go with these... Some shorten the magazine tube slightly to clear the suppressor, while others use a relatively thin threaded adapter to extend the muzzle far enough to clear the existing magazine tube.

And yeah, I know it is not going to be as quiet as the .38/.357 SBRed Ranch Hand that Hickock used in his video... Firing standard velocity .45, it will easily be subsonic, but .45 just doesn't suppress as well period. I don't necessarily care. I found a forum thread elsewhere where a Silencerco rep said that the combination of an Octane and a .45 Colt in barrels as short as 10" should be fine, as long as "factory type" (aka subsonic) loads are used. The +p loads like Buffalo Bore et al would probably blow out my can sooner or later, although the rifle itself will handle them okay. I don't see this ever supplanting my .450 Marlin as an anti-bear device, so it should be easy to make sure I never have any of the +p ammo around to find its way through my can. My current handload in .45 Colt is a 255 grain LSWC cast from wheel weights, over 8.5 grains of Unique.

One last thing I tried for shits and giggles, is I tracked down a box of .45 Schofield ammo, loaded by Ultramax IIRC. The idea being to see if the shorter cartridge would allow for an extra round of magazine capacity. I didn't have it at the range with me, but I did load up some at home, and found that I could indeed fit a seventh round. But I had a couple of them hang up at the end of the mag tube, which took all manner of percussive adjustment with a dead blow hammer to the butt plate to dislodge. Not sure if that was a feature of the specific brand of ammo, or just because .45 Schofield in general doesn't work through the action. I'm not about to attempt to find out, given that the .45 Colt rounds fed flawlessly.

My overall impression is that the Ranch Hand is a very good deal for the money, IF you are willing to pay an additional $200 to the ATF to be able to put a real stock on it, which Boyd's has for $65. Otherwise, don't bother, or buy the full length rifle version. The action has some sharp edges to it in places, and it could probably stand to be fired for a few hundred rounds to improve overall function, but it works and feeds exactly like it is supposed to (provided the correct ammo is used). The trigger is a lot better than I expected it to be. It breaks on average at about 4 pounds (measured), with only a little creep. The sights... Plan on replacing them. Ranch Hands apparently have a reputation for shooting high anyway, since it seems they might use the same front sight that Rossi puts on the full length rifle version.

More to follow once I get SBR paperwork back (will file soon), and get the threading done. I probably won't have the can for this until end of summer at the earliest.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

First, leave it alone and shoot it "as is". You'll have to tweak the sights a little bit, but it retains the whole flavor of the rifle pistol. Of course it you're going to SBR it, then it won't be a pistol any more.

To me, it cries out for a ghost ring sight. For me, the best way to do a ghost ring is to install a Williams foolproof or a 5D and remove the aperture.

Thanks for adding that link to the Rossi 92 stock on Boyd's. That one thing that has killed my regular shooting of my rifle is that curved steel buttplate. That curved buttplate plus hot .357 loads leaves some weird bruises.

I removed the rear sight the other night, and to my surprise, it's the sight that's tweaked, and the dovetail in the barrel appears to be cut straight. So, I could get a replacement rear sight, a taller front, and be done with sights. Not gonna do that, though. I ordered this scout mount, and plan to stick just a basic red dot on there instead of using irons.

The downside of the rail is although the barrel contour is the same as the regular '92 rifle version, the Ranch Hand doesn't come drilled and tapped for the mount. So I will need to have that done when I have the muzzle threaded for the can. Which I finally met last week, despite having ordered it in January. The distributor sent the wrong one the first time, so I ended up waiting for two Forms 3. Maybe in another 5-6 months I will be able to mount it. Should have the Form 1 back long before then.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

I removed the rear sight the other night, and to my surprise, it's the sight that's tweaked, and the dovetail in the barrel appears to be cut straight. So, I could get a replacement rear sight, a taller front, and be done with sights. Not gonna do that, though. I ordered this scout mount, and plan to stick just a basic red dot on there instead of using irons.

The downside of the rail is although the barrel contour is the same as the regular '92 rifle version, the Ranch Hand doesn't come drilled and tapped for the mount. So I will need to have that done when I have the muzzle threaded for the can. Which I finally met last week, despite having ordered it in January. The distributor sent the wrong one the first time, so I ended up waiting for two Forms 3. Maybe in another 5-6 months I will be able to mount it. Should have the Form 1 back long before then.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

Finally got the barrel out of this, without much fuss once I had the right stuff. I ended up ordering the wrench for a 98 Mauser, and I reversed the non-handle block to give two flat clamping surfaces. I put a couple layers of black electrical tape on the working surfaces to keep from marring the action, and then clamped the barrel into my ersatz barrel vise. This consisted of the blocks shown in the picture below, placed between a pair of heavy plates in my hydraulic press. Cheaper than buying the "real" barrel vise, and doubtless more effective as well. Once everything was clamped securely the barrel loosened up without a lot of force required.

One thing to keep in mind if you ever have to remove one of these barrels, is to open the bolt slightly. The extractor fits into a cut that can keep the barrel from turning. Perhaps surprisingly I didn't forget to do this step... Just putting the info out there, since you could probably break parts that way.

All of the parts and pieces laid out, including the scout mount. The "fun" part is going to be shortening the magazine to behind the muzzle threads. The vertical bolt for the end cap is going to be the sticking point... It actually rests in a divot in the underside of the barrel and appears to contribute to keeping the assembly tight. For one, this means there is going to be a slight divot in my threads, and also that I can only go just so far back before it will hit the cross-bolt for the barrel band. Another possibility may be to forget the tensioning aspect of it, and drill the magazine tube for it horizontally, and then shorten it until it just fits inside the barrel band. Doing it this way I could shorten the mag tube flush with the barrel band, but then I might need to add some shim material between the barrel and the mag tube inside the forend, to keep the assembly tight.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

These things come with a warranty? Now you tell me. Honestly, I was just glad I was able to get the barrel off without breaking anything. I can get the $200 back from the ATF, but I can't get the $400 I spent on the gun back.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

Netpackrat wrote:Finally got the barrel out of this, without much fuss once I had the right stuff. I ended up ordering the wrench for a 98 Mauser, and I reversed the non-handle block to give two flat clamping surfaces. I put a couple layers of black electrical tape on the working surfaces to keep from marring the action, and then clamped the barrel into my ersatz barrel vise. This consisted of the blocks shown in the picture below, placed between a pair of heavy plates in my hydraulic press. Cheaper than buying the "real" barrel vise, and doubtless more effective as well. Once everything was clamped securely the barrel loosened up without a lot of force required.

One thing to keep in mind if you ever have to remove one of these barrels, is to open the bolt slightly. The extractor fits into a cut that can keep the barrel from turning. Perhaps surprisingly I didn't forget to do this step... Just putting the info out there, since you could probably break parts that way.

All of the parts and pieces laid out, including the scout mount. The "fun" part is going to be shortening the magazine to behind the muzzle threads. The vertical bolt for the end cap is going to be the sticking point... It actually rests in a divot in the underside of the barrel and appears to contribute to keeping the assembly tight. For one, this means there is going to be a slight divot in my threads, and also that I can only go just so far back before it will hit the cross-bolt for the barrel band. Another possibility may be to forget the tensioning aspect of it, and drill the magazine tube for it horizontally, and then shorten it until it just fits inside the barrel band. Doing it this way I could shorten the mag tube flush with the barrel band, but then I might need to add some shim material between the barrel and the mag tube inside the forend, to keep the assembly tight.

I assume that's the same scout mount that Legacy was selling some years ago? The article/blurb mentioned that most M92 guns of that era were already tapped, you have to look under the rear sight for the screw holes. I never bothered looking at mine, I'll have to do that.

If that is the same Legacy mount, they also offered a riser for the stock to get a good sight line to the mounted scout scope. IIRC it was ugly as homemade sin.

ETA: Oops, I clicked the quote on the wrong post, I meant to hit the one above, where you talk about the scout mount.

No idea if it's the same mount. I bought it from Noe Bullet Molds... I have seen another mount (may have been a factory Rossi item), but it didn't have as many cross slots. The one I have has regular cross slots along its full length like a standard Pic rail.

The Ranch Hands have the correct barrel contour, but are not drilled and tapped from the factory.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

Visited my gunsmith friend today, picked up the AK-74 he threaded for me, and dropped off the Rossi barrel, scout mount, and mag tube with him. In addition to threading the barrel .578-28, he's going to shorten the tube for me, so I won't have to deal with drilling the holes for the end cap myself. I may or may not get it back with the barrel drilled and tapped for the scout mount, depending on whether he thinks there is enough thickness there. The .357 version would definitely have been an easier conversion... Though not as cool as .45 Colt IMO.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

Got the Rossi barrel/magazine back from the gunsmith today, and put it back together. Threads are .578-28, because there just wasn't enough meat there to go 5/8-24. This means I'll have to use a piston and fixed barrel spacer when I get my Octane 45, rather than the simpler threaded rear end cap.

He ended up not drilling and tapping the barrel for the scope rail. Said he didn't want to try it without having the barrel installed to be sure of getting it level, and I kind of got the impression that he'd really rather not drill and tap that barrel anyway. So I still need to get some better sights, at least for now.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

So, I got some new sights from Skinner Sights. I just finished installing them, and if they work out as well as I expect them to, I may forget about the scope mount entirely.

Rossi uses a non-standard size dovetail, so I bought their oversize front sight, and it took a lot of work on both sights with a safe edged triangular file to get them to fit. The front sight is much higher than the factory unit, both because the Ranch Hands tend to need a taller sight to begin with, and because I want to be able to see them over the suppressor. I also bought an extra height aperture for the rear peep. I may still need to file the front sight down but I do have a small amount of adjustment in the rear. It's hard to tell what to expect just from looking at it due to the taper of the barrel. I'm not going to make any attempt to adjust the sights or even fire it again until the Form 1 is approved and I can put a stock on it. Not sure what distance I should zero it at; maybe 50 yards, but that's a WAG.

Thinking about making a trip later today (after I get some sleep) to the NFA dealer who has my can in jail, to see if I can get him to dig it out for a test fitup, now that I have the .578-28 piston and fixed barrel spacer in hand, just to see how much of the sights are visible over the can.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

Still waiting for the damn Form 1 to be approved so I can get a stock for this thing... 105 days and counting, which previously would have it showing up any time now, but the rush to beat 41F has got everything AFU right now. Nfatracker.com only shows one Form 1 from April that's been approved, and that's an SBR from WA state. I have read that ATF kept track of those that they disapproved while WA's laws were screwed up, and are now fast tracking them on request. Everything else seems to be back in Feb, and some in March, but the "trend" is starting to resemble a shotgun blast, so it's next to useless for trying to figure out when to expect your stamp.

Anyway, more parts arrived for this, so I decided to install them now. I bought a stainless magazine follower and spring from Steve's Guns, and also a sling mount kit and sling from the folks at Amazon Gunsmith Supply. The forward sling mount required some fiddling since it is made for a minimum .645" diameter tube, and the RH92 mag tube is maybe all of .640 inches. I spread the band slightly so I could get my 1" belt sander in the gap, and removed metal so it would be a better fit over the tube. When I installed it, I put a little sleeve retaining compound under the band, so with luck that will remain solid. If it doesn't work out, another option is maybe to drill and tap the forend band for a 10-32 machine thread swivel.

Then I drilled the "grip" for the other swivel. It's temporary of course, but mainly I wanted to test the special drill I bought for the task. Seemed to work OK although I wish they made a black spacer for the swivels instead of just the stupid white line spacers. The sling is supposedly Amish made and they listed them in a number of different styles. This one is said to be buffalo hide and is well made, although it's a pretty basic sling.

I hand cycled it with some .45 Colt ammo, and I definitely lost a round of capacity when I had the mag tube shortened to clear the threading. However, I tried it with Schofield and I can still fit 6 rounds of those. With the new spring and follower it seems to feed them better, although the third round of it out of the magazine still hangs up and requires a sharp rap on the butt to get it moving again. Only does it on the third round, so maybe that will smooth up.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

Thanks, but it's going to be a while still before I can do any loading. I still have several boxes of 255gr LSWC that I originally loaded for my Stampede, so I am good for now. I am planning on sticking mainly to standard pressure/subsonic loads for this because that's all the Octane 45HD suppressor can take, although the gun of course will handle +P loadings. This is mainly a fun gun; if I need more power from a lever gun, I can use my .450 Marlin.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

I had known that the Army had issued "Schofield" ammo that worked in both the SAA and the S&W Schofield revolvers, but I hadn't realized there was a difference between the two cases besides just the length. The Schofield rims are just a hair wider than .45 Colt, so they are more likely to hang up in the tube magazine, and per the video Schofield cartridges won't work right in an SAA, either. The "short colt" ammunition issued by the army apparently used the narrower .45 Colt case head, with Schofield length cases. And thus they worked fine in both types of revolver issued by the Army.

The rims of the Schofield cartridges I have are about .010" wider than those of the Colt cases. So, at least I ended up learning something new out of my attempt at regaining a little magazine capacity. The Schofield ammo seems to fit just fine in my Beretta Stampede revolver, however, so maybe it's dimensions are a little more forgiving than those of an SAA, or the box of current production .45 Schofield isn't quite the same dimensionally as the late 1800s stuff.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

Got the receiver engraved with my trust info today (along with my Suomi and Scorpion). Local guy did it with a pantograph machine while I waited, right next to the factory engraving for the model and serial number. Except it looks better than the factory engraving, and he only charged $25 per gun. I just need for my #$(*^*(#$ stamp to show up so I can buy a stock for it. Big thumbs up for Keith Stegall out in Wasilla if anybody local ever needs engraving done.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

As I said in the other thread, the Form 1 was approved, and late this afternoon the brown truck brought a new stock and forend from Boyd's... Not really happy with Boyd's; they would only ship UPS air, and refused to do USPS which is normally a no-go for me, but in this case I wanted the stock yesterday so I bought it anyway. I bought both the stock and forend because I assumed that would give me my best odds of ending up with matching wood, which ended up being true, but also not.

The Boyd's forend is a pretty close match with the stock (not exact) but it doesn't $#*^&#$^*& fit the rifle. It's close, but the barrel band will simply not slide over the stock, and the wood is too thin between the barrel and mag tube to really relieve much there. It could probably be made to work if I were willing to remove a bunch of wood from where the barrel band slides over and refinish. I know that it's not uncommon to have to do some fitting with new aftermarket wood, but I also think it's reasonable to expect FINISHED furniture to fit properly and not need woodwork... Especially when the area that needs to have material removed is on the exterior where it will show if not refinished. So, I ended up putting it all back together with the original forend. I will probably leave it as-is for now since taking that area apart is a PITA given the nature of the modifications.

The Boyd's stock actually fit, although poorly. There's are some noticeable gaps around the tang and the wood stands a little proud of the metal where they should be flush. I probably wouldn't have paid enough attention to that to care, if I weren't already annoyed about the forend. I'll probably shitcan the Boyd's forend since I am going to have to refinish something anyway if I want a match, so I may as well try to refnish the stock and the orginal forend (that actually fits) to more closely match each other.

Anyway, looking forward to taking it back to the range to zero the sights. I'm pretty sure I will need to remove a bunch of metal from the extra high front blade I installed. It just barely fits in the Midway medium size case.

Last edited by Netpackrat on Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

You know, it occurred to me that I succeeded in making a non-California legal lever action.

Fired this at the range yesterday before work. I zeroed it for 25 yards off the bench; I didn't have to touch the windage but I had to take the front sight down quite a bit with my cordless Dremel, and finished up with a file. I think there will be enough height to still see the sights over the can, although I may decide to get another tall blade and switch to a tang sight at some point. The standard pressure .45 Colt reloads seemed mild enough out of the 12" barrel.

Took a few shots at one of my rifle plates at 100 yards. I hit it a few times, but it's definitely not a 100 yard gun. There seemed to be less drop than I expected there to be at that range. In the process of learning that, I managed to nail the horizontal piece of my target hanger, so I will have to make another one out of EMT. I would have brought it back to 50 but I didn't want to get into an argument with the range guy about minimum distance for steel at the rifle range, and I didn't want to pack up and move to one of the pistol ranges (even though I was shooting a pistol caliber). Now that I have the sights adjusted and won't need the bench, next time around I will shoot it on the pistol side.

I'm also pretty sure one of the 100 rounds I fired had a double charge of Unique based on the flash and recoil. I loaded them on my progressive press with auto index several years ago, and I have never had that happen before. I'm glad that round didn't make it into my Stampede revolver, but the Ranch Hand seems none the worse for wear. I've fired several hundred rounds of that batch with no other issues, but I am going to be sure to use them up in the rifle and then maybe find a load that is better for filling the case for the next batch, to avoid any repeats. I bought a box of American Eagle factory ammo for when my brother and I can get together to try it with his can.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

The pic is not new, but I finally put 40 rounds of American Eagle .45 Colt through this with the Octane 45HD pistol can installed using a .578-28 piston and fixed barrel spacer. It's absolutely giggle worthy... The gun is fun enough to shoot unsuppressed, but the can really makes it. It has a bit more thump to it than 300 Blackout subs do, but it's still fairly quiet.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop

First Shirt wrote:Wonder what it would do with a 300 gr. bullet at 1500 fps? I've never been very interested in suppressors, but now you've got me wondering.....

Probably blow out the can, although the rifle would most likely take it. The Octane is only rated for standard pressure loads out of that short a barrel. If it were a full 16" barrel it might be OK.

No worries about the rifle taking it. My go-to load for my 20-inch Rossi gets the 300 gr. bullet to nearly 2000 fps, and the rifle runs them like a champ, I was just wondering if the can to take it. Thanks for the info, guess I'll keep the suppressor on the back burner for now.

But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."Lindy Cooper Wisdom

Keep in mind that the Octane is a pistol can, and the longer the barrel, the lower the pressure at the blast baffle, and therefore the more it can take. IIRC, Silencerco has gone on record that it is fine at 16" on a .44 Magnum rifle. You'd want to ask Silencerco about it first, but it would very likely be okay on your 20" gun with full power ammo. Failing that, they also sell a "Hybrid" can that is a pistol can but is also rated for a bunch of rifle calibers, including .45-70 down to 16" but it is a sealed (welded) can, and can't be disassembled for cleaning. That may be a big deal if you are running cast bullets or shooting a lot of dirty subsonic ammo.

Mostly, I bought the Octane because it will handle 10mm. I didn't get the idea for the .45 Colt SBR until after I had ordered it.

Edit to add; another possible issue is whether there is enough barrel thickness at the muzzle for threading. I seem to recall that the Ranch Hand was .650" or so, which was barely enough for .578-28 (normally used with .45ACP pistols). Your 20" rifle might not have that much meat at the muzzle.

Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop