This thread is not going to get further away than your massive QQ about a spec that was extremely strong and you just felt entitled to a spec... if you're not open for testing then please, don't start stirring shit up

It was not extremely strong. It was just about our only spec/weapon that kept us comparable to the dps specs of other profs. And now it's getting nerfed. The only people who thought it was overly powerful are the baddies who got owned by guardian glass cannon builds in PvP and people who generally know nothing about the profession itself (I'm guessing you're one or both of these). And symbols in PvP, especially when used in an offensive manner are gimped as it is because of the need to lay them in one spot and then needing to stay in that spot along with the enemy as well, which just doesn't happen (unless you're a baddie who stands in the red circles). The fact that you keep ranting that GS was OP just goes to show that you seriously have NO idea what you're talking about. GS was our one weapon that was well balanced around damage and support (traited). The synergy just worked well with it. Now it just does ok damage with only 50% of the support capability it had before. Either learn guardian or gtfo.

---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 09:55 PM ----------

Originally Posted by barackopala

As stated before, this thread is going to go nowhere, why? due to you being so narrow minded to say all the time "this is an utter nerf, everyone who thinks that i should test something new is bad and nothing more than that"... it's no use to keep posting here, it's a circlejerk.

I'm not Jesus. I can't cure the blind. So I guess you're just screwed huh?

---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 10:00 PM ----------

Originally Posted by barackopala

SC2 and GW2 are pointing towards a competitive scene, even some A-net devs have stated A LOT of times that they look after games like SC2, it's the same thing that happens on both communities, i'm stating examples of the bandwagonist mayorities that cry outright after a nerf without even looking to the side... Remember that the underlined word is reason enough for giving you a warning, stop being overly defensive over something, at least be receptive.

The community is actually pointing out huge flaws with this change in the last patch. Flaws that Anet seems to have overlooked and are refusing to even comment on. If you had even tried to read the official forums, you'd realize it is in no way a circle jerk of outrage. There are a lot of people bringing up legitimate concerns and pointing out major ramifications of this one change. But you wouldn't know that would you? You'd rather live in your own little world, only listening to the ideas of yourself and ignoring what everyone can see and come up with. Go on living under a rock. The rest of us will continue living in the 21st century.

I'm not Jesus. I can't cure the blind. So I guess you're just screwed huh?

Illusions of grandeur, huh? Just look at the facts, most people in this thread disagree with you. If you insist this is because they are 'blind', than we don't have much to talk about, do we? Go write a blog somewhere, that will probably get you some attention (or not).

Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm

The community is actually pointing out huge flaws with this change in the last patch. Flaws that Anet seems to have overlooked and are refusing to even comment on. If you had even tried to read the official forums, you'd realize it is in no way a circle jerk of outrage. There are a lot of people bringing up legitimate concerns and pointing out major ramifications of this one change. But you wouldn't know that would you? You'd rather live in your own little world, only listening to the ideas of yourself and ignoring what everyone can see and come up with. Go on living under a rock. The rest of us will continue living in the 21st century.

I have been reading the official forums/reddit/etc. Most of the threads are non-constructive whine ('I stopped playing the game!', 'Delete the guardian class!') or delirious ideas fix such as yours. Haven't seen any 'major ramifications' that actually made any sense so far. I agree that rearranging the buttons is very annoying (although it takes under 30 minutes to get used to it), that the GS is less attractive now (at last - hopefully people will learn to some other weapons instead of face-rolling with a cookie-cutter GS build) and that symbol build doesn't work with GS now. But all these things are really very minor. You make it sound like people only play guardian because of the Symbol of Wrath

Illusions of grandeur, huh? Just look at the facts, most people in this thread disagree with you. If you insist this is because they are 'blind', than we don't have much to talk about, do we? Go write a blog somewhere, that will probably get you some attention (or not).

I have been reading the official forums/reddit/etc. Most of the threads are non-constructive whine ('I stopped playing the game!', 'Delete the guardian class!') or delirious ideas fix such as yours. Haven't seen any 'major ramifications' that actually made any sense so far. I agree that rearranging the buttons is very annoying (although it takes under 30 minutes to get used to it), that the GS is less attractive now (at last - hopefully people will learn to some other weapons instead of face-rolling with a cookie-cutter GS build) and that symbol build doesn't work with GS now. But all these things are really very minor. You make it sound like people only play guardian because of the Symbol of Wrath

Just don't try feeding him mindless ego / helping him to jump into the bandwagon, he's a prime example of that kind of people.

Illusions of grandeur, huh? Just look at the facts, most people in this thread disagree with you. If you insist this is because they are 'blind', than we don't have much to talk about, do we? Go write a blog somewhere, that will probably get you some attention (or not).

I have been reading the official forums/reddit/etc. Most of the threads are non-constructive whine ('I stopped playing the game!', 'Delete the guardian class!') or delirious ideas fix such as yours. Haven't seen any 'major ramifications' that actually made any sense so far. I agree that rearranging the buttons is very annoying (although it takes under 30 minutes to get used to it), that the GS is less attractive now (at last - hopefully people will learn to some other weapons instead of face-rolling with a cookie-cutter GS build) and that symbol build doesn't work with GS now. But all these things are really very minor. You make it sound like people only play guardian because of the Symbol of Wrath

Granted you have to sift through some whining in order to find the threads and posts that truly matter (and there definitely are some really good ones out there talking about this nerf). The whining ones should in no way discredit the other people with legitimate views and concerns about this seemingly ignorant decision on Anet's part. And considering that this one little change send out shockwaves through the guardian community in reference to GS and all the builds associated with it? Yeah, that's not minor or trivial. Just because you don't use GS to any great effect or choose to ignore the problems this change creates, does not make it any less trivial. It might be trivial to you, but that doesn't mean it's trivial to the guardian community at large. In fact, I bet about 95% of the guardians I see (forums, in-game, etc) are not happy about what Anet did to all their GS builds. In fact, i have yet to talk to a guardian in-game (and I've been talking to them alot since last night) that isnt pissed off at what Anet is doing to GS and all the builds that go along with it. Why take one of the most balanced weapons and associated builds that kept guardians on par with other classes and nerf it into the ground?

And I'm sorry, but the few of you on here saying the nerf is fine are by far and large the minority and are really not understanding how much this affects GS builds now, especially the ones that rely on symbols any at all (zeal trait line says hello). So until you all learn guardian a bit better, or at least GS guardian, I suggest you all stop posting.

Granted you have to sift through some whining in order to find the threads and posts that truly matter (and there definitely are some really good ones out there talking about this nerf). The whining ones should in no way discredit the other people with legitimate views and concerns about this seemingly ignorant decision on Anet's part. And considering that this one little change send out shockwaves through the guardian community in reference to GS and all the builds associated with it? Yeah, that's not minor or trivial. Just because you don't use GS to any great effect or choose to ignore the problems this change creates, does not make it any less trivial. It might be trivial to you, but that doesn't mean it's trivial to the guardian community at large. In fact, I bet about 95% of the guardians I see (forums, in-game, etc) are not happy about what Anet did to all their GS builds. In fact, i have yet to talk to a guardian in-game (and I've been talking to them alot since last night) that isnt pissed off at what Anet is doing to GS and all the builds that go along with it. Why take one of the most balanced weapons and associated builds that kept guardians on par with other classes and nerf it into the ground?

And I'm sorry, but the few of you on here saying the nerf is fine are by far and large the minority and are really not understanding how much this affects GS builds now, especially the ones that rely on symbols any at all (zeal trait line says hello). So until you all learn guardian a bit better, or at least GS guardian, I suggest you all stop posting.

seriously dude, just give up ok, noone cares about your whine, its been said over and over that this is minor and not life changing change. So if you disagree, good for you, lets agree to disagree and move on ok? Jesus... get a life

These kind of posts aren't needed here. Please be respectful of other posters. -Edge

Last edited by Edge-; 2012-10-09 at 04:59 PM.

"Bill Nye: So Todd I got an offer for you. You and me. Any time. Any place. Debating science mano- a-mano. I'll bring the facts, and you bring the Vaseline. Because your ass is gonna fucking need it when I'm done whipping."

seriously dude, just give up ok, noone cares about your whine, its been said over and over that this is minor and not life changing change. So if you disagree, good for you, lets agree to disagree and move on ok? Jesus... get a life

1. Nice way to assume I have no life.

2. I'm not the only one who has concerns for what they're doing to GS guardians. The few of you here on MMO champs that are disagreeing with me are actually in the vast minority in terms of being "ok" with what they're doing to the GS playstyle. The fact that all of you think it's ok and that we should just adapt to a change that was obviously very poorly thought out just makes me /facepalm. With one skill change, Anet has effectively reduced an entire trait line to 50% of it's previous effectiveness. You would all be singing a VERY different tune had Anet decided to do the exact same thing to your trait line/weapon of choice instead. Pretty much all GS guardians are saying the same thing...the skill change was very poorly thought out and could have been done in a much better manner....the few GS guardians who are actually ok with the change are the ones going "hurr durr, just spam auto attack and WW now guys! it's so much fun and easier! hurr durr!".

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 12:59 AM ----------

Originally Posted by barackopala

Just don't try feeding him mindless ego / helping him to jump into the bandwagon, he's a prime example of that kind of people.

That kind of people eh? Oh...you mean the people who are actually approaching this change intelligently and questioning the true motive of the change and wondering why GS had to take such a nerf for a secondary effect that most people ignored? Yeah...because we obviously don't have a clue what we're talking about. We're the only ones coming up with actually good ideas and trying to suggest how to improve/fix things instead of just saying dumb shit like "suck it up and adapt or gtfo". It's YOUR kind of people that tend to ruin games as a whole. To blindly go with any change a company makes is just asking for trouble.

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 01:06 AM ----------

I'll just leave these here. These are people who are bringing up real, legitimate concerns affecting the guardian change. Read them and learn a little. If you still have the same mindset that a lot of you are having after you read them, then I feel very badly for you indeed.

I'll just leave these here. These are people who are bringing up real, legitimate concerns affecting the guardian change. Read them and learn a little. If you still have the same mindset that a lot of you are having after you read them, then I feel very badly for you indeed.

Granted, on the last link you may have to sift through some whining, but there are really good posts in that thread as well if you look for them.

Yeah, I actually contributed to those threads on multiple occasions. No arguments there convince me. The only interesting thought was a post (can't find it right now) suggesting that retaliation nerf buffs the crit builds (although I am unsure that argument actually holds - I don't have enough data to test it). The rest is just your 'I can't play my symbol build anymore' which is completely irrelevant.

That said, guardian is one of the most popular professions (due to how easy it is to play), if some people actually roll something else I would be happy.

P.S. You don't have to feel bad for me though, actually I am rather happy for my ability to think critically

Nice to see Zephyr Storm still saying the class he plays is useless in every way shape and form, and everyone else is completely OP.

Originally Posted by Lucky_

Mesmer phantasm nerfs were hilariously weak. Triple bleed phantasm mesmer will still rule sPvP with an iron fist as most people can survive almost as long as phantasm cooldown and mesmer can simply grab another phantasm for utility to compensate for increased cooldown. You'll be weaker against swarms of gimps though.

Agreed. If you're going to nerf Mesmer's damage output, this shouldn't be it. It does absolutely nothing for the people that are dying to it, and it again does absolutely nothing to the people that could already counter it. All it does is crutch the mesmer harder, for no change to the receiving end of it. And further crippling the only non-target based AoE we have (Chaos Storm's already hurting cooldown being pushed further and further back).

Nice to see Zephyr Storm still saying the class he plays is useless in every way shape and form, and everyone else is completely OP.
Agreed. If you're going to nerf Mesmer's damage output, this shouldn't be it. It does absolutely nothing for the people that are dying to it, and it again does absolutely nothing to the people that could already counter it. All it does is crutch the mesmer harder, for no change to the receiving end of it. And further crippling the only non-target based AoE we have (Chaos Storm's already hurting cooldown being pushed further and further back).

And to quote zito:
.."Fine" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but certainly a lot more better if/when things actually, y'know, work.

Glad to see you're still singling me out and trolling me when I haven't uttered a word to you in a long time.

And I NEVER said guardian was completely useless in every way, shape, and form in this thread now did I? I've merely stated that they nerfed very viable Zeal trait line/Symbol/GS builds, all in the name of retaliation, which still makes no sense (and alot of people agree with that). I actually admitted to the profession being very good, if not OP at support, utility, and defense depending on the situation. But way to put words in my mouth, YET AGAIN. Go troll elsewhere Kel. I don't need your crap anymore.

And I never said everyone else was OP. My only real gripe with any class being OP is warriors....and let's face it...they ARE OP and really easy to play...and have yet to receive a nerf. Once again, nice way to put words in my mouth. Tell me exactly, how did you become a mod with your kind of attitude?

One final thing: Stop trying to make arguments, I'm sorry, "discussions" with me about classes that you have no real experience with. You did it to me in-game, and you're trying to do it to me again. Lvl an ele and guardian BOTH to 80, run explores and do pvp on both, and then come back to talk to me about them. Only then will I take anything you say seriously. Until then, you're nothing but hot air.

And I NEVER said guardian was completely useless in every way, shape, and form in this thread now did I? I've merely stated that they nerfed very viable Zeal trait line/Symbol/GS builds, all in the name of retaliation, which still makes no sense (and alot of people agree with that). I actually admitted to the profession being very good, if not OP at support, utility, and defense depending on the situation. But way to put words in my mouth, YET AGAIN. Go troll elsewhere Kel. I don't need your crap anymore.

Guardians are only OP at support and some at "tanking". Everything else about those two classes is either bad or just "meh". Anyone else saying otherwise doesn't really have a clue or are just bad and lost to one of those two classes in PvP

And yet you're still wrong. Tough to swallow isn't it? Now stop trolling me! Go do something more useful with your time.

I haven't uttered a word to you since you unceremoniously booted me from the MMO Champ Guild (mainly because you can't seem to stand having someone prove you wrong) and yet here you are, following me and trolling me. I'd say that's pretty piss poor behavior for a mod isn't it? But oh that's right....you're above the law here aren't you? Rules that apply to me have no affect on you.

I am seriously beginning to doubt Anet's ability to balance a game properly.

There is not one gaming company out there that will make a change that everyone will like.

I am REALLY starting to think Anet just changes things on a whim, without regard to what the changes actually entail. They seem to ignore all the problems that the community brings up on the forums, and decides what is best to "fix" (and I say "fix" because they tend to break/nerf more than doing anything else). And while they "fix" these "problems", they continue to ignore much larger, more serious problems that really, really, really need to be addressed. Such as sooooooo many broken traits for all the profs just to name one.

There are more people complaining about bugs on the forums than they have employees that can actually solve the problem. I don't know about you but I prefer bug fixes and things that make it so people really can't play the game, over any kind of nerf.

Really starting to lose faith here. I know the game hasn't been out long, but if this patch was any indication of what is to come, I may be quitting GW2 MUCH sooner than I anticipated.

Suprise, classes are not staying as they were during beta/launch. Welcome to MMOs

You're going to have two types of class balance in MMOs, and there are degrees of each. Ones that allow classes to have flavor, strengths and weaknesses. Certain classes will thrive in certain situations, and are weaker in others. Others strive for "balance" where every class can be equally viable in all situations. In the latter case, classes generally end up feeling homogenized because MMO "balance" is impossible without everyone being relatively the same.

Both types are equally viable as there have been many successful examples of each, but in a game where classes are inherently different in many ways, there are going to be strengths and weaknesses.

Last edited by Butter Emails; 2012-10-09 at 08:58 AM.

"Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
"How do Trump's people keep forgetting that they met with Russians?" -Trevor Noah

Just a hint: If you're talking to, let's say, 20 people and they all have the same opinion that magically differs from yours, it might not be the worst idea to conclude that you may be wrong.

And browsing thru A.Nets promises, I can't find a "every class will have a ranged playstyle" @_q

And yet the hundreds of people on other forums all disagree with the select few on here. So I guess that makes the select few here wrong then huh? See what I did there?

And no offense to MMO Champ, it's a good site....but some of the users here have always have a somewhat elitist attitude, especially towards forum users of other sites (official forum sites specifically). They may not even realize they're doing it, but they are. (And yes I've been guilty of an elitist attitude at times, so don't bother pointing a finger at me, because I know I'm guilty at times as well). The fact that some users in this very thread basically state that everyone on the official forum is a "whiner" or a "bandwagon circle jerker" and that they all just need to "learn to play" or "adapt or gtfo" just proves it. Instead of listening to the actual topics of discussion, they immediately start telling people that they need to learn how to play. I've used that term before, but it's usually in regards to someone being completely clueless and/or purposely ignorant of a well known fact.

And as far as the ranged thing goes, I believe they said in one of their videos that they wanted everyone to be able to do both melee and ranged dps effectively, depending on your personal preference with each profession. They made it very clear that they don't want any profession to be gimped if they are forced to go ranged for any reason (although some classes are far more gimped at ranged than others, guardians being a glaring example).

And every profession should be able to go glass cannon if they so choose, that's the point of this game and their philosophy along with it.

Why? All of the professions are different. Why do all of them have to be able to go glass cannon? Guardians can soak up a lot of damage. I can't do that with my Engineer. The point of having different professions is that they are all different, not that you can build any type of role for any profession.

Some professions will do better at range, others will do better at melee. Some professions will have better CC, some will do well at the support role and others will put out more damage.

You might feel that everyone should be able to go glass cannon, but that's just your opinion. You keep stating these things like that are facts and then insulting people when they disagree with you.

And no offense to MMO Champ, it's a good site....but some of the users here have always have a somewhat elitist attitude, especially towards forum users of other sites (official forum sites specifically). They may not even realize they're doing it, but they are. (And yes I've been guilty of an elitist attitude at times, so don't bother pointing a finger at me, because I know I'm guilty at times as well). The fact that some users in this very thread basically state that everyone on the official forum is a "whiner" or a "bandwagon circle jerker" and that they all just need to "learn to play" or "adapt or gtfo" just proves it. Instead of listening to the actual topics of discussion, they immediately start telling people that they need to learn how to play. I've used that term before, but it's usually in regards to someone being completely clueless and/or purposely ignorant of a well known fact.

I agree that rearranging the buttons is very annoying (although it takes under 30 minutes to get used to it), that the GS is less attractive now (at last - hopefully people will learn to some other weapons instead of face-rolling with a cookie-cutter GS build) and that symbol build doesn't work with GS now.

This wouldn't be so bad if the other weapons were... actually interesting. Staff is probably the only other weapon IMO that makes the class actually fun to play, and even that is quite situational (as it should be).

Beautiful veins and bloodshot eyes.
"If you are not capable of cruelty, you are absolutely a victim to anyone who is" - J. Peterson

And yet you're still wrong. Tough to swallow isn't it? Now stop trolling me! Go do something more useful with your time.

I haven't uttered a word to you since you unceremoniously booted me from the MMO Champ Guild (mainly because you can't seem to stand having someone prove you wrong) and yet here you are, following me and trolling me. I'd say that's pretty piss poor behavior for a mod isn't it? But oh that's right....you're above the law here aren't you? Rules that apply to me have no affect on you.

Seriously. Leave. Me. The. Fuck. Alone.

Could you please calm down a bit?
This kind of hostile attitude isn't helping your case on this forum.

You're saying everyone is trying to start arguments with you, but by behaving this way, you're actually allowing them to do so.
If you want people to take you seriously, try not to let them provoke you like this.

Accusing someone of breaking the forum rules is backseat moderating.
Accusing someone of backseat moderating is backseat moderating.
Therefore, due to its nature, backseat moderating will lead to nothing more than circular discussions.