The Military Is Now Telling Catholic Chaplains What They Can And Can't Say About The Obama Administrationhttp://www.businessinsider.com/the-military-is-now-telling-catholic-chaplains-can-and-cant-say-about-obama-administration-2012-2/comments.rss?IR=T
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:18:14 -0400Michael Brendan Doughertyhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f32a93b6bb3f7fb3b00004aEdwardWed, 08 Feb 2012 11:56:27 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f32a93b6bb3f7fb3b00004a
Add a comment...JDC: Was obama in charge during your eight years in the Military?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f31507beab8ea5d180000121st Amendment Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:25:31 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f31507beab8ea5d18000012
You never actually countered any of my points.
Also, Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. I could copy and paste the numerous comments he made to back that up, but so far that hasn't done any good here....you and the other commenter just insulted me and called me ignorant....and stop telling me to do my research and do you own....or do you choose to ignore the fact that that Jefferson re-wrote his own version of the Bible, and left out the dogmatic stuff.....sounds like he would be considered a blasphemer by many Christians today. You argument is bs....read the first amendment, you know, the part about not respecting a particular religious establishment. Also look up the Treaty of Tripoli.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f309a2f69bedd9d07000074Chaplain (COL) John Price (Ret))Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:27:43 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f309a2f69bedd9d07000074
After Vietnam's My Lai incident, we received Army-wide training that we are not to obey illegal orders. Someone in the Administration is ignorant of this fine point and Chaplains cannot be forbidden to say what is on their conscience.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f3098edecad04d57100005fChaplain (COL) John Price (Ret)Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:22:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f3098edecad04d57100005f
Mr Crow, the First Amendment has 2 parts: one forbids establishing any religion, but the second forbids restricting free exercise of religion. For a CO to send his troops into combat where the churches either don't exist or are destroyed, or into training where there are no churches, the CO has to provide religious coverage. A 1924 Supreme Court decision determined that the Military must bring clergy into service to provide that coverage. The Constitution thus requires us to have a Military Chaplaincy to provide religious coverage. The military does not promote religion, it has to provide it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f30434c6bb3f7291000001fJon HainesMon, 06 Feb 2012 16:17:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f30434c6bb3f7291000001f
Just as a point of clarification, the pope did not endorse this. The media loves to simplify documents that come out of the Vatican by saying Pope says this or Pope says that....when really there are a number of congregations in the vatican which can say whatever the hell they want, and have in the past dissented from the Pope. This came from a study on the topic not from the Pope himself. I doubt he supports this. The media (NY times needs to report with more precision.)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f3004176bb3f7de1f000049Mervin HuffmanMon, 06 Feb 2012 11:47:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f3004176bb3f7de1f000049
Add a comment...Any one's speech can possibly be inflamatory. Almost anything that Obama says today is inflamatory to me, but I defend his and any other American his or her right to say.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ff49569bedd1336000022jjMon, 06 Feb 2012 10:41:09 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ff49569bedd1336000022
How about actually doing a little studying on the matter before coming up with your opinions? Did you know that Thomas Jefferson attended church in the Capitol building? Isn't that also the government favoring one particular religion, according to your definition? How is it that Jefferson, who supposedly believes the military should not have chaplains (after all, it's his letter to the Danbury Baptists that provided today's basis for believing that) but apparently thought it was OK for the Capitol to have a church service. Was he wrong? Or perhaps are YOU wrong about what he really believed?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2fa88d69bedde074000061Firozali A.Mulla DBAMon, 06 Feb 2012 05:16:45 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2fa88d69bedde074000061
Many a times the news is so stale and not worth reading that we read it and curse the papers. However we need to know what is happening in the world, who is stealing from whom, the instinct nature of curiosity is with us and we will die with it. It mat=y be religion or the neighbour’s dog but it is a story we want to know The emerging conflict between the Catholic Church and the Obama administration may have a new front: in the U.S. military itself. The Catholic Church is fighting mad about an HHS ruling that would have them buy insurance for things they consider sinful–contraception, sterilization and abortion. All the bishops in the country sent out a letter to be read in their parishes promising that the Church "cannot-and will not-comply with this unjust law." I thank you Firozali A.Mulla DBAhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ee84deab8eab105000029Sean CSun, 05 Feb 2012 15:36:29 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ee84deab8eab105000029
The Fascists in Germany called themselves the National Socialist Party (Nazis). The two are not at all contradictory.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2df933eab8eae73400001dpdfconverterSat, 04 Feb 2012 22:36:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2df933eab8eae73400001d
You say their goal is to weaken out military....dude, Israel has one of the most badass militaries around, so allowing gay people apparently did nothing to weaken them.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2deb0769bedddd08000026PaulrobSat, 04 Feb 2012 21:35:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2deb0769bedddd08000026
Repubs trample the constitution? please give me an example! This administration has no respect for the constitution or their oaths of office, or the laws of the land, and you state the Repubs trample the constitution? What planet do you live on?
How about Barry's decision not to defend the Defense of Marriage Act simply because HE and his liberal cronies think its unconstitutional? It certainly isn't his decision to make - he swore to uphold the laws of the land, and in refusing to do so, violated his oath of office. Previous governments and previous Democrat presidents thought it was, and the decision of whether it is or not isn't up to the president - that's why we have a supreme court. Talk about trampling on the constitution when you don't personally agree with the law of the land.
The govt has gone over 1000 days without a budget which is a violation - they're simply afraid to have the nation see the mess they've created. The Repubs have produced budgets, the senate has refused to even table them. Again, who's violating the constitution because they want to cover something up?
Your statement doesn't hold up to reality - you really need to get an education or a reality check.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2de87decad04183a00003dPaulrobSat, 04 Feb 2012 21:25:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2de87decad04183a00003d
They are priests first, and military employees second. When there is a conflict of interest, their calling is to follow the precepts of the church. Anything else is selling their soul.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2de770ecad04113a000041PaulrobSat, 04 Feb 2012 21:20:32 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2de770ecad04113a000041
Again, your point of view is unhistorical and very narrow. My taxes are used in a myriad of ways I do not approve of, from sex education in the schools to keeping serial killers incarcerated to government funded abortions to PRN. Who pays them also has no bearing on their ability to speak out.
Why is it just the radical left, those afflicted with terminal liberalism, that think their opinions count and their money flow should be restricted to those causes they deem just?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2de4f0ecad04003c000030Paulrob Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:09:52 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2de4f0ecad04003c000030
Sure not a student of history are you? Having chaplains in the military is in no way a violation of the first amendment. I can't see how rational minds could possibly make this conclusion. That means I suspect that you are irrational - thought I should spell that out. The Constitution forbids only the establishment of a state religion, and required the free exercise of religion to be engaged in. As the senate. etc have chaplains, it is only common sense that those on the battlefield, taken away from their home churches, have the facilities afforded them to continue to provide spiritual counsel and comfort.
Particularly for Catholics, and I'm not one, Last Rites is as essential for the badly wounded as medical care. To say that this is a mistake shows you have a very self centered and unhistoric point of viewhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc7fa6bb3f7d53600001d1st Amendment Sat, 04 Feb 2012 19:06:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc7fa6bb3f7d53600001d
Refer to my above reply to "JP". LIke I said, it's not about the citizens not being exposed to religious beliefs...the marketplace of ideas is great and all....it's about the government not granting special favor to a particular religion (as stated in the first part of the Amendment), and in this case the government is merely saying they can't use their position as gov't employees to assert what is stated in the letter....which by the way comes from an archbishop and doesn't represent the whole religion.
I'm betting that most of you would be outraged if a Muslim chaplain politicized while in uniform.
In regards to your insult towards my "tender little ears".....I grew up in a pentecostal household and went to a baptist high school. I have a great relationship with my family and my closest friends are devout believers. I understand that religion has a role in society, but I also know that mixing church and government doesn't lead to anything good. And in this case, we're talking about military chaplains, and as such they are part of the government, and are in no position to politicizehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc70eeab8eac8600000231st AmendmentSat, 04 Feb 2012 19:02:22 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc70eeab8eac860000023
Refer to my above reply to "JP". LIke I said, it's not about the citizens not being exposed to religious beliefs...the marketplace of ideas is great and all....it's about the government not granting special favor to a particular religion (as stated in the first part of the Amendment), and in this case the government is merely saying they can't use their position as gov't employees to assert what is stated in the letter....which by the way comes from an archbishop and doesn't represent the whole religion.
I'm betting that most of you would be outraged if a Muslim chaplain politicized while in uniform.
In regards to your insult towards my "tender little ears".....I grew up in a pentecostal household and went to a baptist high school. I have a great relationship with my family and my closest friends are devout believers. I understand that religion has a role in society, but I also know that mixing church and government doesn't lead to anything good. And in this case, we're talking about military chaplains, and as such they are part of the government, and are in no position to politicize their beliehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc5b5ecad04b40900001b1st Amendment Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:56:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc5b5ecad04b40900001b
Refer to my above reply to "JP". LIke I said, it's not about the citizens not being exposed to religious beliefs...the marketplace of ideas is great and all....it's about the government not granting special favor to a particular religion (as stated in the first part of the Amendment), and in this case the government is merely saying they can't use their position as gov't employees to assert what is stated in the letter....which by the way comes from an archbishop and doesn't represent the whole religion.
I'm betting that most of you would be outraged if a Muslim chaplain politicized while in uniform.
In regards to your insult towards my "tender little ears".....I grew up in a pentecostal household and went to a baptist high school. I have a great relationship with my family and my closest friends are devout believers. I understand that religion has a role in society, but I also know that mixing church and government doesn't lead to anything good. And in this case, we're talking about military chaplains, and as such they are part of the government, and are in no position to politicize their beliefs.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc0b4ecad04457a0000341st Amendment Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:35:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2dc0b4ecad04457a000034
Back up your bullshit with facts and logic instead of talking shit. You're the one who can't comprehend things. "make no law respecting an establishment of religion" flat out shows a freedom FROM religion. And, contrary to what some of you are saying on here, it's not about preventing people from practicing or proselytizing their beliefs, it's about the government not giving special favor one religion or another, which means the catholic chaplains, who are officers as well, should not be able to use their position as government employees as a soapbox. And before you guys on here spout off again this being a Christian nation, I'll remind you again that many of the founding fathers, including Thomas Jefferson were Deists, not Christians. So don't act like condescending pricks, pretending that you're the only ones who read or understand the Constitution.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db92969bedd901600003fTylerSat, 04 Feb 2012 18:03:05 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db92969bedd901600003f
sexual abuse in the American school system is literally 10 times more prevalent than in the Catholic church...and those "lumps of cells" are starting to prove to be significantly more important and worthwhile than the average Obama-voter.
Maybe we should just rename executions as, "post-birth abortion," then the collective Left will support it :)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db86d6bb3f7ea12000033TylerSat, 04 Feb 2012 17:59:57 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db86d6bb3f7ea12000033
Furthermore, chaplain work is voluntary, in addition to their military service - they are not employed to simply sermonize to their faithfulhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db7c5eab8eaae3900002aTylerSat, 04 Feb 2012 17:57:09 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db7c5eab8eaae3900002a
chaplains are volunteers - they are not paid to preach, you schmuckhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db784ecad045e68000026TylerSat, 04 Feb 2012 17:56:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db784ecad045e68000026
chaplains are nothing more than soldiers practicing their faith - they are not paid to preach - they volunteer, you ignorant simianhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db6fbecad046668000092TylerSat, 04 Feb 2012 17:53:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db6fbecad046668000092
Then I fully expect you condemn any and all public sector (union) worker who engages in political discoursehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db1f46bb3f7d912000008towerclimberSat, 04 Feb 2012 17:32:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2db1f46bb3f7d912000008
@ My Vies so you're saying that if I'm mortally wounded, protecting YOU from an enemy, I shouldn't get last rites? How kind of you. Idiot. Chaplains are officers and are there to maintain morale. without them our army would lose. it's just that simple. they also intervene on behalf of soldiers in a hostile command.
I agree with the abortions part of your post but I believe you know what you're talking about when it comes to the military.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d8fb9ecad043d28000025Ron GeoffroySat, 04 Feb 2012 15:06:17 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d8fb9ecad043d28000025
Free speech doesn't stop at your door by the way it works the same for everyone even the Pope. And by the way, the Pope should be preaching the doctrine of the bible and what God requested of us a human. I can understand how people like yourself can be upset about the Pope saying it is a concern that the Rich are not taking care of the poor because they want the biggest and the most. It's called greed. It's the same thing we are see with the tea party movement in this country today. They see it as a capitalist system that give everyone the same chance to make it big and create your own company, become wealthy and rule the roost. We we are not all the same, someone has to be the worker that allows your companies to be successful. If you had no workers for your company, you would have not workers, It's a full circle. Enough saidhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d8a51ecad042c28000003jjSat, 04 Feb 2012 14:43:13 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d8a51ecad042c28000003
Uh, there is nothing in the 1st Amendment that guarantees freedom "from" religion. Sorry to break it to you, but the Founders never intended to protect your tender little ears from hearing any mention of "God", "Buddha", "Jesus", etc., in the public square. If that was their intent, I'm sure they would have edited out any mention of God from the Declaration of Independence so they wouldn't offend thin-skinned anti-religion types like you.
I'm sorry religion offends you, but there is a lot that offends me too but I have to put up with it. If we'd all cut each other some slack, I guarantee our society will be a much better place to live.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d88d6eab8eaeb69000015what? no turkish bath...Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:36:54 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d88d6eab8eaeb69000015
I think SS is not aware of what the SS stands for...
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d870e6bb3f70b4700000fJPSat, 04 Feb 2012 14:29:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d870e6bb3f70b4700000f
1st Amendment gets an F at reading comprehension.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d86a8ecad041716000035what? no turkish bath...Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:27:36 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d86a8ecad041716000035
ya woll!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d6a57eab8ea882a000026DameYankeeSat, 04 Feb 2012 12:26:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d6a57eab8ea882a000026
THANK YOU! Good infohttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d692a69bedd2274000016DameYankeeSat, 04 Feb 2012 12:21:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d692a69bedd2274000016
Preaching Church tenets on Abortion/Birth Control is preaching sedition against our government...but actions like Nadal Hassan screaming Allah Akbar and killing American military personel is just "work place violence". A vote for Obama in 2012 is a vote against the US Constitution!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d542aeab8eadc0b000005Jungle JimSat, 04 Feb 2012 10:52:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d542aeab8eadc0b000005
As a former commissioned officer for a number of years, I disagree. This is NOT about religion at all, it is about politics and the Church has no constitutional right to encourage disaffection in the US Army, period.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d53dd69bedd844f00001caldolSat, 04 Feb 2012 10:50:53 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d53dd69bedd844f00001c
karma is a terrible thing, everyone finds out sooner or later, let us know when you dohttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d478deab8ea5a72000007Jimma (the2ndWorst)Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:58:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d478deab8ea5a72000007
"The Free Exercise clause guarantees individuals the right to practice what their religion requires and conscience dictates. Soldiers, Family members, and authorized Department of Defense (DOD) civilians are entitled to Chaplain support. Chaplains are expected to advise the command on all matters pertaining to the free exercise of religion and to speak with a candor and urgency befitting the exercise of their religious duties. Chaplains assist the commander inproviding for the accommodation of religious practices."
They have pretty strong first amendment rights there bub.... I love it when libs are up on the soapbox all about free speech....THAT IS UNTIL THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY HEAR.... I hear the pitter-patter of little feet marching toward tyranny.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d4517eab8ea2863000041Jimma (the 2ndWorstPOTUS) Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:47:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d4517eab8ea2863000041
Chapels on Bases do take collections for any and all chapel activities (which those funds are used by Atheist groups too, though they rarely contribute), childcare is manned by volunteers as is all the music, bible/koran study etc, the military does pay salaries for Chaplains, but also dictates what they do (a helluva lot of counseling) to include heading out to where lead and steel zip by at supersonic speeds. So get your facts straight before sounding like an ingnoramous.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d36b7ecad041512000013what? no turkish bath...Sat, 04 Feb 2012 08:46:31 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d36b7ecad041512000013
Yes, I can imagine...
and I think I already saw that.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d356b6bb3f7f03a00000awhat? no turkish bath...Sat, 04 Feb 2012 08:40:59 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2d356b6bb3f7f03a00000a
No, you are just angry because papist are beating evangelist to NWO.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cfae8ecad04b624000035 prove he's a communistSat, 04 Feb 2012 04:31:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cfae8ecad04b624000035
It's not preventing them from practicing their religion, it's preventing them from making a political statement put out by an archbishop, who by the way doesn't speak for every for every follower. How, exactly, does this infringe their freedom to practice their religion? It's not keeping them from praying or giving spiritual advice, it's merely telling them not to read a politically-fueled statement while wearing the uniform.
Also, you can't just say he's a communist then claim there's not enough space to prove it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cf249eab8ea8a45000021Justin PoppitiSat, 04 Feb 2012 03:54:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cf249eab8ea8a45000021
I am not a member of any religion. Yet, I am appalled by this directive. It violates the spirit of the First Amendment.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cd8f1ecad04cf6500003eAlfredSat, 04 Feb 2012 02:06:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cd8f1ecad04cf6500003e
The concept of freedom of religion in the 1st amendment is fairly simple. The government can't force the people to follow any particular religion, they are free to choose which, if any, they want to follow. That's all it says. It doesn't prevent the government from interacting with religions, funding them preferentially, or even having their representatives in our military.
That's what is meant by "freedom OF religion", you can choose any that you'd like to follow. The religion clauses in the amendment do not prevent the government from interacting with religions. That is what is meant by "not freedom FROM religion".http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cc566ecad04bb4b00001cgraciela mercedesSat, 04 Feb 2012 00:43:02 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cc566ecad04bb4b00001c
No, he's a communist. And there's not enough pixel available to give the evidence. You are also wrong here: " Those chaplains are also officers, and their duty of providing counseling to members is not being infringed." It's not their DUTY that is infringed, it's their 1st Ammendment right to religious freedom that is infringed. Federal courts have been very clear on this. Read Rigdon v Perry (1997) and I think you will understand what the issues are here and how the law applies.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cc2f56bb3f70672000008graciela mercedesSat, 04 Feb 2012 00:32:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cc2f56bb3f70672000008
Look, it doesn't matter what any of us think. A 1997 federal case, Rigdon v Perry, is on directly on point on this issue. The court ruled "The State cannot interfere with the right of religious leaders to preach from the pulpit on political issues, even if those ministers are in the military." It is clear the Obama administration is determined to ride roughshod over everyone who disagrees with him. If you dare to speak up, he will squash you like a bug. It's his way or the highway, baby, no doubt about it. He's a Commie dictator.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cbdefeab8ea7c6d00000fhawkinsSat, 04 Feb 2012 00:11:11 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cbdefeab8ea7c6d00000f
dont care what you all think, here is the bottomline...obama=socialism=antiamericanism=tyranny.
enuff with these comparisons with 'piror administrations' . that this is 'same ol same ol'. i dont recall EVER any of these incidences, of outright constitutional violations...power grabs...despotism. obama must not be re elected.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cbc6d69bedde40900001fkjw1026Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:04:45 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cbc6d69bedde40900001f
And Obama is a public servant as well but he seems to forget that and people seem to be okay with the fact that he feels he's above the law of the land...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cae446bb3f7ed4900001fjohn smithFri, 03 Feb 2012 23:04:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cae446bb3f7ed4900001f
the letter isn't really about a military issue, so the logic here is somewhat flawed.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cad6eecad04a71b000021Fellow VetFri, 03 Feb 2012 23:00:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cad6eecad04a71b000021
yeah, one of the posters said "it's just a uniform" If only you could punch someone over the internet.
I served with good men and women who died in that uniform, and fuckers on here insulted it.
Funny how the most ignorant, insulting posts on here get the most 'likes', while the thoughtful ones backed up by facts and logic get 'disliked' and ridiculed. Kinda confirms your point about this comment section.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cacd2eab8ea334600001fThe futureFri, 03 Feb 2012 22:58:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cacd2eab8ea334600001f
Not kicked out. We're talking about future recruits. I think you're reading it too literal--if this was really about reading one document, nobody would care. I don't think you need a conspiracy theory to connect the dots here--we're not the only ones having this conversation, I've noticed this military topic trending in the news lately, multiple sources and not just the Internet. I'm no theologian or historian by a long shot, but I think there's a lot at stake here.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cabc0ecad04a21f000014FlyingbugFri, 03 Feb 2012 22:53:36 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2cabc0ecad04a21f000014
There are both Catholic and Protestant ministers, as well as rabbis, in the military. Just because our citizens choose to be in the military doesn't mean that they lose the right to practice their faith.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2caa2ceab8ea004400000cProve itFri, 03 Feb 2012 22:46:52 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2caa2ceab8ea004400000c
Like so many commenters on here, you're just talking out of your ass. Provide some evidence and logic to back up your argument.
Also, socialist and fascist are both bad, but they're very different ideologies/systems. You sound like a complete retard calling him contradictory things.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ca8a469bedd065c00003dIn the minority on hereFri, 03 Feb 2012 22:40:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ca8a469bedd065c00003d
This comment section is populated by retards. I posted something backed up by facts and logic, and it has a lot of 'dislikes', while "fact" and "jdc"'s ignorant, bullshit posts have more 'likes' than 'dislikes'. The most 'liked' posts on here have no basis in fact or logic....it's a madhouse, but it is fun to laugh at the stupid shit people say on here. Hopefully, "jdc" and "fact" are in the minority in the real world.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ca369eab8ead127000050Proud VetereanFri, 03 Feb 2012 22:18:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2ca369eab8ead127000050
Just as I suspected. A thread full of liars and p@#sy chickenhawks. Grow a pair and join up. I dare you all.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9f86ecad04ba0d000010radixFri, 03 Feb 2012 22:01:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9f86ecad04ba0d000010
Probably would, not as much as he would you though.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9f566bb3f7d83100000cradixFri, 03 Feb 2012 22:00:38 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9f566bb3f7d83100000c
If that's the case, they should get out of the military.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9d086bb3f7f629000010He's called the Commander-in-Chief for reasonFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:50:48 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9d086bb3f7f629000010
First, calling him a Commie immediately shows how ignorant you are of what communism is. A commie/socialist/marxist wouldn't have bailed out the banks and appointed a bunch of bankers and corporatists, both of which his predecessor did. Obama, like Bush, is a state/big government capitalist. I don't care for him either, but he's def not commie. Both parties are bordering on fascist, but that's for a whole other debate.
It's not 'anti-faith' or 'demonic' to not support a group catholic chaplains politicizing the uniform. And as someone who went to Iraq and dealt with the loss of a fellow Seabee (the construction guys), it really pisses me off when people belittle the uniform and what it represents. Many good men and women died in that uniform, some who even disagreed with the policies of those above them, so don't say it's just a uniform.
I agree with you about the turn our country is taking....NDAA and the Enemy Expatriation Act are very draconian and disregard the constitution. But it's a bit of a stretch to compare telling military officers to not politicize their position with what the KGB did. Read up on them and them and the Stasi did in East Germany....there's no comparison to this situation.
Anyway, in the military you don't always have complete freedom of speech, just ask Bradley Manning. Whatever you think of Wikileaks, what Manning did was wrong. When you have a security clearance and are granted access to classified information, you are explicitly told that disclosing any of that information makes you subject to court-martial and possibly tried for treason. No, the chaplains are not in the same boat as Manning, I'm just bringing his case up to point out that you DON'T have complete freedom of speech in the military. Those chaplains are also officers, and their duty of providing counseling to members is not being infringed.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9730eab8ea1e28000002Casenova FrankensteinFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:25:52 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9730eab8ea1e28000002
Reference please.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c966d6bb3f7e921000029shall7070Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:22:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c966d6bb3f7e921000029
actions of a tyranthttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c95d669bedd7540000005He's called the Commander-in-Chief for reasonFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:20:06 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c95d669bedd7540000005
They are, first and foremost, officers in the US military. In the military, we all, to a certain degree, have our freedom of speech curtailed so as to preserve order and discipline across the forces. The letter in question is a political instrument, and they are not telling all catholic priests not to say it, just the military chaplains. Again, they are part of the military, and even though there are special provisions for chaplains, they still have orders to follow. I understand your point, and I'm no fan of Obama, but the catholic church is playing politics with this. They need to look inward before condemning what others do.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9534ecad04f76d00005aGary AndersonFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:17:24 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9534ecad04f76d00005a
Guess you didn't read the link double x.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9452ecad040e6a000037irishbreakfastFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:13:38 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9452ecad040e6a000037
We taxpayers pay Chaplains, because Chaplains are a huge benefit to the young human beings that are risking their lives and witnessing unbelievable trauma in the pursuit of our government objectives. We pay Chaplains because the military would be less capable and more servicemembers would crack under the stress and commit more suicides, murders, Abu Gharibs, My Lais, etc without them.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c93d069bedd312d000040John CFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:11:28 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c93d069bedd312d000040
Obama is arrogant enough that the ones of the Jewish faith will soon be forced to consume pork.
He's here to humiliate, folks - get used to it... well, just for next 11 months.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c922b6bb3f7da21000002irishbreakfastFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:04:27 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c922b6bb3f7da21000002
I don't think you're a "douche." You're absolutely right. Surviving Nazi leaders, at the Nuremberg Trials, defended their immoral behaviour by saying they were innocent because they were compelled to follow orders from the commander-in-chief...NO EXCEPTIONS!
Our grandparents hanged them.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c914069beddd22a0000101st Amendment Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:00:32 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c914069beddd22a000010
Reply to "plebis" and "jj":
You both start off by arrogantly insulting me.....how classy.
My whole point was that we do have freedom FROM religion in addition to freedom OF religion. You whole argument about the 'wall of separation' even confirms that.
Also, I'm libertarian, not liberal, and that whole 'you don't understand the Constitution' line is ignorant and worn out. I'm very aware of Jefferson's letter, and I'm also aware that he, like many of the founding fathers, was not a Christian, but a Deist. And he also spoke out about religion interfering in public life:
"If anything pass in a religious meeting seditiously and contrary to the public peace, let it be punished in the same manner and no otherwise as it had happened in a fair or market"
Before you insult me, you need to actually read that first part of the 1st Amendment again.
jj: It's 'provision', not 'prohibition' that you meant to say, right? Before calling someone ignorant and insulting their intelligence, don't get the words 'prohibition' and 'provision' mixed up, or else you look like an ass.
Also, how, exactly, does what you say refute my argument about having freedom FROM religion?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9123ecad041e68000022irishbreakfastFri, 03 Feb 2012 21:00:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c9123ecad041e68000022
The order is immoral and unlawful because it violates the Constitution (no law restricting free exercise of religion). The letter from the Bishops is free and protected speech, expressing their determination to freely exercise their religious beliefs. It is not an attack on the authority of the commander-in-chief; it is a letter that challenges the president's civil authority over religious freedom. The president is trying to use his civil authority to compel a religious group to pay for nongovernmental services that are morally offensive, and he threatens to use the limitless powers of the federal government to persecute this group if they resist. Now he (or a rogue general) is apparently trying to use authority to dictate what Chaplains can say on this civil and religious matter, to other members with whom, the Constitution they defend, allows them to freely associate. BI is right...he is trying to censor what one of America's largest religious groups is saying to its members. BTW when Catholic chaplains are conducting Mass (as they would be when reading this letter out loud), they are not quite in uniform...the commander-in-chief allows them to cover their uniform with religious vestments. There is a reason for that.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8d68ecad040e6a00001bSSFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:44:08 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8d68ecad040e6a00001b
The Fuhrer would love you......http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8d426bb3f7e111000014Radical for FreedomFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:43:30 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8d426bb3f7e111000014
And render unto God what is his moral code. I am more concerned about eternity and morals and character than some charlatan politician.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8ce469beddc62a000027Commie in chief for a reasonFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:41:56 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8ce469beddc62a000027
What kind of anti-faith, demonic nazi garbage are you talking about? A uniform is just that--a uniform. It is just a uniform! He was a soldier. Wearing a uniform means they are in the service, nothing more and nothing less. Joining the service doesn't mean Satanic rules should be followed. What ever happened to freedom? We are becoming a KGB police state little by little.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8be4eab8ea3f14000002Obama's Socialist Heathen FascismFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:37:40 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8be4eab8ea3f14000002
Another example of Obama destroying the sanctity of human life and destroying the moral fabric of America.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8b90ecad04256800000fFact Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:36:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8b90ecad04256800000f
Homosexual rapes have increased since homosexuals were allowed in the military. This is a simple statistical fact. Now many Americans, who historically played a disproportionately large role, do not want their kids in the military. My family has many military people in it and now we don't dare let our kids enter.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8ae0eab8eae20d00000dMy ViesFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:33:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8ae0eab8eae20d00000d
People need chaplains but chaplains should not be supported by tax dollars.Neither should abortions be supported by tax dollars. That is tax payer funded genocide.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8a3f69bedda41c000022hmmmFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:30:39 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8a3f69bedda41c000022
Chaplains should be supported by their congregations, not taxpayers who may or may not support their denomination/religion.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8a36eab8ea910200001djjFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:30:30 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8a36eab8ea910200001d
Goodness you're ignorant. The prohibition in the 1st Amendment is about Congress creating a national church like the Church of England. THAT was the issue the Founders feared, because in the country they came from, the Church of England was essentially a branch of government that suppressed religious freedom. A chaplain disagreeing with the administration's policies regarding abortion is NOT establishing a national church, therefore it does not violate the 1st Amendment.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8a066bb3f7e11100000aplebisFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:29:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8a066bb3f7e11100000a
Another one unable to read English. The establishment clause, as explained by Jefferson to the clergy who wrote asking clarification, was to prevent the establishment of a State Religion like the Church of England. Jefferson wrote that the Constitution erected a wall between church and state, thus guarantee that no such church would come into being.
Libs are willfully ignorant of the Constitution and it's supporting documents.
Sheesh. And it's such a short, elegant read. So limiting to the federal government. That's why Obammie hates it so.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8981ecad04056800000bradixFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:27:29 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8981ecad04056800000b
Render unto Caesar those things that are Caesars...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c876c69bedd8117000034plebisFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:18:36 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c876c69bedd8117000034
Sorta like those forty odd "czars", non recess recess appointments, etc. etc., endlessly etc.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c866c6bb3f76c01000028It's a logical fallacy to compare the twoFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:14:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c866c6bb3f76c01000028
I actually was against the Iraq war, for several reasons. And that killing of that journalist was awful.
But to compare this with war crimes is ludicrous. The catholic chaplains are just politicizing and grandstanding. Anyone who has worn that uniform knows that when you wear it, you do not politicize and blatantly disobey order b/c you happen to disagree with them. It's not like this is an unlawful order, and the chaplains, although not fighting forces, are nonetheless US military officers wearing the uniform. Their job is to provide counseling to those who need it, and this order doesn't infringe on thathttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c841a6bb3f7127e000015He's called the Commander-in-Chief for reasonFri, 03 Feb 2012 20:04:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c841a6bb3f7127e000015
Any one who has served also knows about respecting those above you.
I'm not even an Obama supporter, but I still respect the position.
What exactly is immoral or unlawful about the order? They're simply telling them not to say something, in uniform in their capacity as a US military officer, to say something that could be construed as disrespectful and disobedient. I'm sure you heard about the soldier who endorsed and spoke for Ron Paul at an event, in his uniform. He now faces discipline from his unit, and rightfully so, because we are not supposed to politicize while we wear that uniform.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c828c69bedde019000005SterlingFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:57:48 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c828c69bedde019000005
Sorry...It was too easy. But you are right, uncalled for.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c81f669bedd011500000ePlaying the Nazi card is an instant fail in an argumentFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:55:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c81f669bedd011500000e
how about countering with something of substance instead of being a douche and comparing this with the holocaust.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c81e26bb3f75603000003irishbreakfastFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:54:58 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c81e26bb3f75603000003
The Catholic Church is still here. Where's Stalin's Soviet Union?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c815eeab8ea0a7000003firishbreakfastFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:52:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c815eeab8ea0a7000003f
Any fool who has served, knows servicemembers swear an oath to defend the Constitution. Not the president. In fact, the commander-in-chief also swears an oath to defend the Constitution. What about "make no law restricting the exercise thereof" don't you understand?
Any fool has served, also knows that in law-of-war training, etc., service-members are taught to identify and disobey unlawful and immoral orders.
Any fool who has served remembers the Code of Conduct, and its final words: I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America. NOTE: code of conduct says DEDICATED TO THE PRINCIPLES, not some guy in the White House who happened to win an election.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8148eab8ead47c000003SterlingFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:52:24 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8148eab8ead47c000003
Don't know, but the Pope did not command anything, nor did the Bishops. What they said is they will not comply with a command dictated by the government. There is a reason the saying is God and Country, because God comes first. Period. Perhaps you will not agree, but for most of society that is the way it is.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8110ecad04f159000005Time for you to get pwnedFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:51:28 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c8110ecad04f159000005
They're not kicking out catholics, they're telling the chaplains that can't, as a group,say something that could be interpreted as disobedience to orders. They're not infringing on an individual's rights. jdc was just going on an ignorant rant that didn't even have anything to do with the article.
Again, they're not kicking catholics out of the military....also, gay people couldn't serve openly until recently, where was your outrage then?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7d356bb3f72872000018SterlingFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:35:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7d356bb3f72872000018
Said the soldier at Auschwitz.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7d0aeab8ea8369000028ImplicationsFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:34:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7d0aeab8ea8369000028
"During 8 plus years in, not once did I see a member denied their right to see a chaplain."
That's what's at stake here--that's why this is news. If you force priests out of the military with new rules, then Catholics can't serve in the military. If Catholics can't serve in the military, now you have bigger problems.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7c93ecad04f84900001fradixFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:32:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7c93ecad04f84900001f
I wonder what would have if the Pope commanded Catholic chaplains to tell the troops to lay down their arms?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7b646bb3f72572000010SterlingFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:27:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7b646bb3f72572000010
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpZ3jPMM5Ac" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpZ3jPMM5Ac</a>
History is not on your side, and you seem to be quite selective about your rights :-)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7afd6bb3f72872000011*Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:25:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7afd6bb3f72872000011
Well unless you happen to work for government's funding division on Wall St.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7acdeab8ea1370000010Gary Anderson is a 9/11 TrutherFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:24:45 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7acdeab8ea1370000010
Hey truther,
How do you feel about your messiah killing bin Laden,. someone who you think did not kill Amercians?
You are an idiot.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7853ecad04fa49000004Now, that's a "Good German" for youFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:14:11 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c7853ecad04fa49000004
Nonsense. This isn't about going 65 in a 55 zone, this is the State forcing someone or an organization to comply with something that's objectively wrong or at least goes against their principles. Now, the State might in fact jail/fine/harass you anyway, but in no way is one compelled to act against their conscience.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c775ceab8eac36b000001Proud VeteranFri, 03 Feb 2012 19:10:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c775ceab8eac36b000001
Any fool who has served knows that the chain of command is above all other considerations with no exceptions. Like it or not, the President is at the top of the chain of command.
Any chaplain of any religion can and should have their career options limited for openly trash talking anyone above their paygrade. That is the way the system works & without it you will have chaos in the ranks the moment someone is forced to decide who lives and who dies.
There are no politics in combat. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either 1) a liar, or 2) a p@#sy chickenhawk.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c72bd69bedd98710000161st Amendment Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:50:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c72bd69bedd9871000016
From the first part of the 1st Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Note the first part where about not respecting a particular religion....if it were only freedom OF religion, we could end up with a theocracy. The FROM part is there and is just as important, lest we get taken over by fundamentalists of any stripehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c715269bedd0b6600004cMax CrowFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:44:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c715269bedd0b6600004c
Having a Chaplain in the military is the FIRST violation of the First Amendment.
Using taxpayer dollars to promote a religion, now they can further 'control' the religion.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70f269bedd2f74000004PeterFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:42:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70f269bedd2f74000004
The Catholic Church - one of the few groups left that doesn't kill the baby for the mistakes of the mother.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70aaecad04ff3b000009KathyFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:41:30 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70aaecad04ff3b000009
I'm only going to address a little bit of your ignorant rant. There's a damned good reason soldiers are prosecuted for battlefield crimes, it's because every time a soldier behaves criminally or commits a war crime, he or she incites the revenge and violence of the people whose countries we're occupying. And who do you think those angry people take it out on? Not on you, safe in the U.S., but on the innocent soldiers who have committed no crimes.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70a6eab8ea5c51000044AlfredFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:41:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70a6eab8ea5c51000044
Another one who doesn't understand that freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM religion.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70506bb3f7f55d000047AlfredFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:40:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c70506bb3f7f55d000047
Be careful about what you say regarding the New World Order, they may have the government zap you with their NDAA ray gun and lock you away in a FEMA concentration camp.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6c936bb3f72b58000053Time for you to get pwnedFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:24:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6c936bb3f72b58000053
Where do I even begin...
First of all, you're whole thing about 'not making the military a social experiment' is what higher up Army commanders said back in the day about allowing black people to service with whites...big fail dude. As someone who served and did time Iraq, I can tell you that most ppl I knew had no problem with gay people serving, and a friend of mine was gay and was also one of the most squared away Marines I knew. ANd you're argument about disrupting unit cohesion is bullshit....Israel and the UK, along with all of our allies except for South Korea, have long allowed gays to serve in all aspects of the military, and studies in those countries have shown that there has no problem with unit cohesion or unity. You say their goal is to weaken out military....dude, Israel has one of the most badass militaries around, so allowing gay people apparently did nothing to weaken them. Do some research before spewing your ignorant filth.
Also, trying certain members for war crimes is nothing new. Did u serve in the military? If you have or currently do, you would know that when you enter the service you learn about the Geneva Convention and our role and the rules we have to follow. While some individual cases may be questionable, the majority of those involving 'battlefield crimes' have to do with individuals or squads that did heinous things....ie Abu Ghraib. You need to provide facts and substance to back up the crap that you're claiming on here.
Thirdly, the military is not infringing on members' right to practice their faith....During 8 plus years in, not once did I see a member denied their right to see a chaplain. And the chaplains are free to preach what they want and provide religious counseling. And catholic and protestant chaplains are the vast majority of chaplains. Only recently have they allowed muslim chaplains and those representing other religions. Religious plurality and freedom is well represented in our military, and is part of our nation's history. You're trying to imply that we have always been a Christian nation, and seem to be upset that there are those of other faiths or no faith. FYI: many of our founding fathers were Deists, not Christians. ALso, I served with Muslims in my time in, and not once did they let their faith hinder their duty as US service members. Only a handful over the years have been extremists, and you can't point to them as an example of all them, much the same way abortion clinic bombers don't represent the pro-life movement.
I'm a Libertarian, and as such am not voting for Obama (Gary Johnson all the way), but your last sentence implies you think Obama is a Muslim....where's your freaking proof? Again, you just make shit up. If Obama was a Muslim, do ya think he would have prolonged a war in two muslim countries? Also, the US would never be a Muslim country for the same reason we aren't a Christian country....the Constitution. We have a secular government, and our ancestors came here to escape religious persecution, so they made it a point later on to ensure our nation wouldn't become a theocracy.
Provide some facts and logic to buttress your bs claims, instead of rattling of Glenn Beck and Michael Savage talking points.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6a636bb3f70c58000025Euro2centFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:14:43 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6a636bb3f70c58000025
Oh, another one trying to bend the Church on moral issues.
Divisions, how many has the Pope, like comrade Stalin asked?
Good luck with that.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c690b6bb3f7105000002c"cannot-and will not-comply with this unjust law"Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:08:59 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c690b6bb3f7105000002c
The thing about laws, that they are not subject to your opinion or eagerness to comply.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6866ecad04e42f000009John651Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:06:14 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6866ecad04e42f000009
I think people, in their animus against the Church or Christian teachings, are throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. There's a larger issue here beyond specific Catholic teachings but centered around the role of force and intrusion of the State into matters of conscience and freedom. The issue being the State trying to force people and institutions into beliefs they find objectionable based on matters of conscience. In all matters and in all times when the State uses force to well, force matters of conscience and beliefs, it never ends well and the worm is usually turned on everyone.
One might gloat or even be in favor of the heavy-handed tactics being employed here, but history and time has proven that when the State points fingers at one group, they're eventually pointed at everyone.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c68166bb3f71d58000005Beltway GregFri, 03 Feb 2012 18:04:54 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c68166bb3f71d58000005
"had."http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c647669bedd265200002dnFri, 03 Feb 2012 17:49:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c647669bedd265200002d
I dont pretend to know enough about the law, but this whole thing seems very badly managed.
You should be able to get what you want without threatening the freedom of speech of hundreds of army preists.
In the end you look like a dick, right or wrong.
nhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6325ecad04d02100001fJdcFri, 03 Feb 2012 17:43:49 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c6325ecad04d02100001f
First turn the military into a giant social experimental lab. Demand they accept gays without question knowing full well that openly gay soldiers disrupt the cohesiveness needed to keep military units together. It won't happen over night but must be done incrementally over years. Weaken the military esprit de Corps, weaken the generals so they routinely comply with political decisions. If necessary bribe them with political jobs and consultancies. The goal : weaken the military from the inside out.
Next up , attack soldiers in the press, prosecute them in civilian courts for battlefield "crimes". Thus helping to make military service less attractive and less honorable. Relious freedom, uproot it as quickly as possible. Prevent chaplains from preaching from the Bible and if possible restrain them from performing last rites. This will further instill a sense if hopelessness among troops. Allow religious extremism into the military ranks to farther upset the esprit de corps. If troops begin complain target them as bigots,racists or intolerant. The long term goal is to ruin the volunteer army and move to forced conscription led by politicians with agendas and less on preserving " freedom" .
Didn't think one president could single handedly destroy my Army but it's clear which way Obama leans.
Welcome soon the caliphate. America was bankrupted and military to weak to resist.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c626aecad04cc21000018Beltway GregFri, 03 Feb 2012 17:40:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c626aecad04cc21000018
Doesn't the Catholic Church have bigger issues to worry about? Obama is going to win and Lance Armstrong has been cleared. The investigation is over.
Abstinence. The world's worst form of birth control.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c623f69bedddf4f000016DogeyeFri, 03 Feb 2012 17:39:59 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c623f69bedddf4f000016
Why do we have these parasites in our military anyways. We've fought hard for our right to separate church from state. The military is a big part of that wall. Let's keep it manned who understand its importance.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c61d269beddeb4a000082Mark out WestFri, 03 Feb 2012 17:38:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c61d269beddeb4a000082
I support the government on this one. They're directly paid as employees by the Federal Government, and thus, must confine their speechifying to approved policy.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c60caecad04e71b000030Gary AndersonFri, 03 Feb 2012 17:33:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f2c60caecad04e71b000030
I support free speech as long as it is not inflamatory. I support justice for the poor. But I don't support this from the Pope:
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/europe/08pope.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/europe/08pope.html</a>
The NWO is already strong enough. It isn't that they don't mean well, it is that power concentrated in one worldwide body is just massively dangerous to human, property, and political rights.