Just a question about the market auctioning:
My initial understanding of the rules was that when it is my turn to initiate, I initiate a market of 3 assets. Someone out bids me. That other player has won the auction I initiated so my opportunity to initiate is now over. Play continues with the next player initiating an auction. If this player was the player who won my initiated auction, play skips to the next player.

After reading some posts on this forum, it now seems that if someone wins MY initiated auction, I get to initiate again. I get to keep initiating until I pass or I win.

Is this correct?

Further to this, at what point do the market(s) refill? If I get to continue to initiate auctions until I pass or win, this seems to meet both criteria for refilling markets. This seems to me that the markets will always be refilled when play passes to the next player. In other words, there is never a time when play passes and there is an empty market.

Yes, if you (player A) initiate an auction and someone else (player B) wins, you (player A) can initiate a new auction. The other guy (Player B) cannot make anymore bids, since he has already won an auction.

Yes, markets refill when play passes to a new player. To complete the above example:

You (A) initiate an Auction. Player B wins, those tokens are collected and the market is empty.

You (A) initiate an Auction. Player B cannot bid, since he won. Player C bids, but you (A) outbid him and win.

Play passes from you (A) to the next player. Both markets (the one player B won and the market that you (A) won refill.

Player B cannot initiate an auction, since he has already won an auction this turn. Player C can then intiate an auction, since he has not won an auction yet this turn. Neither you (player A) nor player B can bid on player C's auction, making it easy for him to win an auction in a three player game.

We have been playing our auction phase wrong, giving each active player just a single chance to initiate a bid. Having just taken a look at the updated rules online, I can see that the sidebar diagram makes it clear while the paragraph text is a little cloudier on the issue. However, I was now reading this with the knowledge that we had been doing it wrong.

I'll bet a lot of people are reading (and thus playing!) this incorrectly!

I further bet that this makes auctions a lot more interesting. Plus, I'm extremely interested in the new "Intense Auctions" variant! Even without it though, this proper reading of the rules is likely to put a great many more asset tokens in play than previously!

Tried the Intense Auctions, and it's a real headache to keep tabs on:
(1) who's The Initiating Bidder,
(2) who's already won a bid and cannot bid, with the same Initiating Bidder,
(3) who's next as the Initiating Bidder.

We just started playing this, and when we got used to it, it becomes a game less centrered around who can steal Assets and who's got the most Medals. It becomes also about how you manage your bidding and purchases, as well as your Medals. I just think, at this early stage, we just love bidding so much, we bid 'till we're broke - bad, bad!!

Brand new to the game, played my first game with my two kids today and everyone fell in love with it! We, too, played the auction rules all wrong, and I'd like to make sure I understand, sorry if this is rehashing:

1) The phase starts with First Player A initiating a bid on a market. Player C wins it.

2) Market DOESN'T refill, Player A initiates another bid; Player C can't bid, Player A wins.

3) All markets refill, play passes to player B

4) Player B places a bid, but now neither player A nor C can bid because they won bids, player B wins

5) Play passes to player C, but because C won a bid she cannot initiative a bid, phase ends.

Is this correct? Thanks!

Talespinner wrote on Sun, 10 June 2007 12:45

Yes, if you (player A) initiate an auction and someone else (player B) wins, you (player A) can initiate a new auction. The other guy (Player B) cannot make anymore bids, since he has already won an auction.

Yes, markets refill when play passes to a new player. To complete the above example:

You (A) initiate an Auction. Player B wins, those tokens are collected and the market is empty.

You (A) initiate an Auction. Player B cannot bid, since he won. Player C bids, but you (A) outbid him and win.

Play passes from you (A) to the next player. Both markets (the one player B won and the market that you (A) won refill.

Player B cannot initiate an auction, since he has already won an auction this turn. Player C can then intiate an auction, since he has not won an auction yet this turn. Neither you (player A) nor player B can bid on player C's auction, making it easy for him to win an auction in a three player game.

Brand new to the game, played my first game with my two kids today and everyone fell in love with it! We, too, played the auction rules all wrong, and I'd like to make sure I understand, sorry if this is rehashing:

1) The phase starts with First Player A initiating a bid on a market. Player C wins it.

2) Market DOESN'T refill, Player A initiates another bid; Player C can't bid, Player A wins.

3) All markets refill, play passes to player B

4) Player B places a bid, but now neither player A nor C can bid because they won bids, player B wins

5) Play passes to player C, but because C won a bid she cannot initiative a bid, phase ends.

I'm still unclear on whether or not a player can initiate a bid in a turn after winning an auction that another player initiated. The rule book seems to have a conflict between the main text and the illustrated sidebar.

The text states that "new auctions are held...until every player has had a chance to initiate a bidding round for that turn." This indicates to me that if I am the second player on this turn, and I win an auction that the first player initiated, I still get to initiate an auction after the first player either wins another auction or passes. Otherwise, it would say something like "...until every player has won a bidding round for that turn."

However, the sidebar shows that when "Allie" forfeits her opportunity to initiate a bid, "David" becomes the active player, skipping "Beatrix" and "Charlie" (presumably because they just won auctions). It further states that "Allie" can still bid, since she did not win, but does not indicate that "Beatrix" and "Charlie" can bid, even though they did not have an opportunity to initiate bids.

We have been playing with the former premise; that is, that everyone gets to "initiate" a bid, with all the markets refilled, regardless of whether they have won other another auction in the same turn. The only drawback is that the last player has a bit of an advantage--they have a chance to win more auctions than any other player if they happen to have enough money.

If you use the latter premise, that you can no longer bid after winning any auction, then each player can purchase no more than one market per turn, and it seems almost impossible to gain the assets you would need to complete a show. That also seems like it would make money fairly irrelevant (other than deciding victory in the case of a tie), because you could have loads of money, but still be limited to purchasing only 3 assets. And finally, it seems that this premise directly contradicts the explicit statement in the text that "every player" should have the opportunity to "initiate a bid."

Some of these posts seem to indicate that by winning an auction that another player initiated, I am essentially forfeiting my "chance to initiate bidding" when I am the active player. I've read and re-read the rules on this point, though, and I'm pretty sure that you can still start a round of bidding when you are the active player after winning previous auctions.

My contention is that every player gets a chance to open the bidding on at least one market, with all markets filled. Anyone have more thoughts, now that I've totally complicated it?

The way I've always played is that each player in turn may initiate a bid (choose a market to bid on). If the winner is the initiating player, the next player gets to initiate. If the winner is NOT the initiating player (lets call him IP for short ), then the IP chooses another marker without the empty one being filled. This continues until IP has won a bid they initiated. Then, the markets are filled and the next player becomes IP.

Someone who isn't IP can be part of an auction before and after their chance to initiate. If they win, they can still bid elsewhere, just with considerably less money.

The reason you would pass on your chance to initiate is if none of the markets interest you at the moment, and you would like to wait to see if anything good pops up that another player chooses to initiate. Saving money isn't a bad thing either.

In conclusion , anyone can bid on anything IP chooses as long as they have enough money, and each player has the chance to be IP once each round.

Thanks for the reply from Zasdert Ultun. That sounds like the way I've interpretted the rules, too. Everyone gets at least one chance to initiate bidding. They might get to initiate more if someone else wins, or they might choose to pass, but they don't forfeit their chance to initiate bidding by winning an auction that someone else initiated.

I am still a bit stuck on the Auction rules. Suppose I have 3 players, A, B and C. Player A initiates an auction, which player B wins. Seeing nothing left he's interested in, player A passes. Player B cannot initiate an auction, since he won player A's auction. Player C initiates an auction, which player C wins. Now, all players have had a chance to initiate an auction, but player A has still not won an auction. Does the auction phase end here with player A not getting to win an auction?

Like a lot of people (it seems), we started out playing the auctions "wrong," but I later found that we were pretty much doing the "Intense Auctions" variant, so we stuck with it. Sometimes when it comes to rules like this, though, I think: who cares what the designer intended, as long as everyone at my table is bound by the same rules, we're playing fair. It may be telling that so many people have "misunderstood" the written rules and wound up doing "Intense Auctions" on their own.