I've played Blood bowl for quite a bit and i'm starting a ELF team and I'm not quite sure which elf team i would like to start which do you think has some of the best perks or if they really don't have any major differences.

Darkson

03-12-2007, 20:03

Horses for courses.

I've always perferred the Dark Elves, with the (Pro) Elves coming a close second.

Probably the best elf team is the Woodies - Wardancers are one of, if not THE, best player in the game.

th0r

04-12-2007, 00:51

I think the best elf team, are the DE's. They really have it all without giving up too much up like armour, while still retaining speed (above most teams) and of course that all important AG4.

SV_Harlequin

04-12-2007, 01:12

Yeah DE. The problems with the others are they are either lightly armoured or have none at all so when they do get hit and they will do they go down. The DE can at least survive some of it.

th0r

04-12-2007, 02:51

Although I must say I'm still a HE at heart.

Count Sinister

04-12-2007, 04:52

Depends whether you're a novice or a veteran, though, I think. Since they changed throwers into 'runners' in the latest rules update, Dark Elves are tough to use, at least for the first few games. The first double you get, give the model the 'pass' skill and make him into a thrower. Although they are pricy for a starting team, High Elves are a little easier to use (although you have to love the 4 blitzers option in a Dark Elf team!)

Darkson

05-12-2007, 06:11

Runners have Pass skills access, so don't need to waste a doubles on Pass, they can take it ona normal roll..

DE armour is no better than HE armour.

DE are a harder team to coach well than WE/HE (Witch Elfs and assassins [if you take them]), now that it's lost it's throwers and gained Dump Off runnners.

Really, having looked through all the data from leagues and tournaments, the best elf team for the "average" players is woodies. Only Elf team with BG access (so you only get 2 elfs cunched at the kick off), high movement (any player can score in 2 turns without GFIs, and the best player in the game.
That said, that's for the "average" coach. Not everyone is the same, and some will find DEs better for them (like me!), others perfer HE, others Elfs (NOS on catchers rock!).

You're probably best off playing a few games with each team to try and find the one that suits your style best.

Count Sinister

05-12-2007, 19:42

You're right, Darkson. I'm thinking of one of my blitzers who I turned into a quarterback because for his first increase I rolled a double. You're also spot on about HE team- I'm always tempted to play HE rather than DE for the simple reason that they are easier to coach, but you don't sacrifice armour for it. Can you take 4 'blitzers' in a high elf team, though? It's one of the reasons I really like DE. In fact, to make my DE blitzers really stand out, I bought four Jordell Freshbreeze models, converted them to all look slightly different, and painted them up as my Dark Elf blitzers - they haven't let me down since!

the anti santa

07-12-2007, 16:56

Well I think Pro Elves are the worst of the 4 teams, they die as easily as wood elves but don't have a treeman to take the bad hits.

Wood Elves are probably the best in 1 off games, but struggle long term in a league with only AV7.

Personally I've found Dark Elves to be the best team, 4 blitzers is just too good to pass up on, I generally don't bother with assassins or runners in the early stages as anyone can handle the ball. With elves are bought later on too and used as catchers until they get block.

But High elves are good too, the catchers are quite fragile but 4 MA8 ST3 players are great. The addition of safe throw to the throwers is ok, but I liked them only costing 10K more for just having pass.

LordSnotball

24-12-2007, 14:51

im on the DE field, but they are the hardest elves to coach...

the thing with DEs is that the MA is too low. the difference between 7ma and 8ma is immense in terms of playability. Therefore, with DEs i'd say 1st skill on a blitzer or runner should be Sprint, and his second skill sure feet or dodge.

HEs are much easier to coach, as the 4 players with 8ma gives the team immense flexibility. Due to the 7av tho, u expect them to die quickly. on the other hand, i took one of my catchers and converted him into a blitzer, and got a nice Block/Frenzy combo on him, which with 8ma makes him an immense attribute to the team...

WEs are by far the fastest, and they can keep up with skaven teams which is nice. the 7av really hurts, but it also forces you to learn to play without blocking much. for example, on a WE team, GUARD is the worst possible skill. not because guard wont be n asset, but because it gets u in the habit of leaving him in TZs, and hence he gets blocked...

Pro elves look nice, but for some reason, regardless on which team im playing, i have always beaten them. 7av and 6ma makes them fragile and slow, turning any match into a slugfest where they cant outrun you...

my personal preference is to start any elf team with mixed positionals (blitzer, WE, catcher, thrower, runner) low on rerolls. the positionals will bring you the range of skills making your team flexible and versatile. The starting team of all linemen (or all linemen but 1 blitzer) also works for the long run, but well, low TR you tend to lose a lot...

but, the trick is to understand elfballing, and once u master that, any fummbled ball on the pitch is a potential TD that you can convert to your favour.

the only other major decision you have to make is regarding your style. are your linemen going to have Block or Dodge as their 1st skill. Block is nice coz u can outbash other starting teams, dodge allows u to out-elfball your opponent and score a lot more... the choice of style is yours

the anti santa

24-12-2007, 16:53

I have to strongly disagree with you Lordsnotball about some of your statements.

Sprint is an awful 1st skill for dark elves, dodge or wrestle is good for blitzers and nerves of steel or block/dodge.
MA7 is fine for dark elves, being able to start with 4 blitzers is great and witch elves having jump up makes them pretty fast too.

Lion warriors are good but very fragile, they start with no defensive skills and will be prime targets, so they need blodge asap, but with ST3 they make great blitzers too.

Now the statement I am the most against. Guard is a golden skill for elves, you can only get it on doubles and I can't think of any other skill I'd take on doubles for elves bar mighty blow on blitzers. Sure if means he can get hit and needs blodge asap but you do need to hit opponents with elves and guard will help get 2 dice blocks, it's very nasty with leap when combined with a strip ball /wrestle /tackle wardancer, though AG5 helps.

With 1st skill choices I like 50/50 block and dodge, against low TR teams many of them won't have much block so they will only be able to knock dodgers down on a pow or suffer a turnover, it also helps with what elves do best in running away. But dwarfs can soon make that a bad decision so some block is always nice too.

LordSnotball

24-12-2007, 21:00

ok, i'll be a good boy and clarify things...

at tr100, your 1st skill is important. burning rerolls in that doesnt pay off. however, the extra movement from sprint will help you secure the ball an awful lot of the time. call it a different style. if you prefer the 'safe route', get the player Sure Feet, and Sprint for his second skill, dodge for the 3rd, and then u'll have an insane elf runner.

ma7 is slow, u need to be able to outrun your opponent or create a safety net around the ball carrier, ma8 will get u there, ma10 with gfis will do miracles, ma7 sux...

guard i'm 50% about. on HEs and DEs, the linemen should always get guard. on WEs and pro elves, due to the av7, the answer is no, unless u have built a team that can outbash ur opponent, or u are planning on making a leap/guard lineman as a cagebreaker. By the time you have the combination of skills for a cage breaking combo, your team will also have the skills to be lethal with guard. if you have a guard without dodge, then ur in for trouble, as next turn u'll need ur guard elsewhere, and u are gonna have troubles dodging away...

Lion Warriors are prime targets, as are witch elves, as are wardancers. the trick to their survival is protection. having blodge is nice, not allowing ur opponent to block them even nicer.

Blodge isnt essential, its nice on a few players, not essential. ive seen too many elf teams all blodge, and no other skills, so they couldnt diversify and play efficiently. they had players standing at the end of the match, but minimal TD action, as they couldnt wrest the ball from their opponent. Coaching skills come into play here of course...

so, here's my challenge to you. Start any elf team, and give all the players Dodge as their 1st skill, play 10 matches and see their record. then start another identical elf team and give them block s their first skill.

By the time you have blodge, your opponent normally has tackle anyway.

NoS is an appauling skill imho, unless you intend to pass/catch with the player and position him for an assist as well. i'd prefer 2 linemen with sidestep and diving tackle for defence and harassment than 1 player with NoS.

as for dwarves, i agree tackle can be a pain, but u can normally combine a few chain blocks and have ur player dodging away from the runner or blitzer who dont have tackle normally till much later. the dwarf coach is so used to having lots of tackle, he neglects his positionals, and u can run circles around them, meaning lots of tackle still isnt enough!!!!!

anyway, feel free to agree or disagree, coaching styles come into play as much as anything else. Personally i find 7ma too slow, but thats just me... 5ag ma8 sprint sure feet blodge is something every elf coach would like...

the anti santa

02-01-2008, 19:43

ok, i'll be a good boy and clarify things...

at tr100, your 1st skill is important. burning rerolls in that doesnt pay off. however, the extra movement from sprint will help you secure the ball an awful lot of the time. call it a different style. if you prefer the 'safe route', get the player Sure Feet, and Sprint for his second skill, dodge for the 3rd, and then u'll have an insane elf runner.

ma7 is slow, u need to be able to outrun your opponent or create a safety net around the ball carrier, ma8 will get u there, ma10 with gfis will do miracles, ma7 sux...

MA7 is above average and importantly avoids the need to GFI to score in 2 turns and remember Dark Elves can start with 8 MA7 players, which makes them faster than most teams. I just don't see sprint as being a worthwile skill on most players, it's ok on a catcher to help with 1 turning and to get that extra square to avoid being hit. But the odds of failing making 1 GFI are 17%, 2 is 31% and 3 is 42%!

You really don't want to be rolling any more dice than you have to with elves as they are expensive and you tend to start with les re-rolls than other teams. I'd only GFI if it would help me score a TD or get the ball, there won't be many times you need that 3rd GFI. In fact I can think of 8 skills I'd take over sprint on a Blitzer; Fend, Strip Ball, Tackle, Wrestle, Diving Tackle, Dodge, Jump Up & Sidestep. A dauntless, leap and maybe another frenzied player would be nice too, and that's not taking doubles or stats into account.

guard i'm 50% about. on HEs and DEs, the linemen should always get guard. on WEs and pro elves, due to the av7, the answer is no, unless u have built a team that can outbash ur opponent, or u are planning on making a leap/guard lineman as a cagebreaker. By the time you have the combination of skills for a cage breaking combo, your team will also have the skills to be lethal with guard. if you have a guard without dodge, then ur in for trouble, as next turn u'll need ur guard elsewhere, and u are gonna have troubles dodging away...

All elves lack Strength access, so you really can't pick and choose when you roll doubles, therefore I'd take guard on doubles most of the time with dodge and high AG elves can make sure they have guard where it's needed most and where it will count. A wood elf team with a dauntless, strip ball or wrestle wardancer and leap guarder will scare most teams (and only requires 3 skill rolls), it is a really risky ploy, but the very chance of it will help you control how your opponent reacts.
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Lion Warriors are prime targets, as are witch elves, as are wardancers. the trick to their survival is protection. having blodge is nice, not allowing ur opponent to block them even nicer.

Blodge isnt essential, its nice on a few players, not essential. ive seen too many elf teams all blodge, and no other skills, so they couldnt diversify and play efficiently. they had players standing at the end of the match, but minimal TD action, as they couldnt wrest the ball from their opponent. Coaching skills come into play here of course...

In the early stages your weaker players will be exposed to risk, by the 2nd half elves will often be lacking in players so it's very hard to protect rookie AV7 players and still be competitive, you can minimise the risks, but chances are your opponent will get a shot at them so it's vital to take skills to keep them alive.

Blodge is great for the 3 LOS players and keeps them alive longer, it's also vital on positionals. Dark elves start with 6 players who need just 1 skill to get it, which makes them so powerful.

so, here's my challenge to you. Start any elf team, and give all the players Dodge as their 1st skill, play 10 matches and see their record. then start another identical elf team and give them block s their first skill.

By the time you have blodge, your opponent normally has tackle anyway.

Been there done that, that's why I like 50/50 block dodge, many teams start with no block, so a dodger on the los can only be brought down on a pow (unless they want a turnover) and has a 97% chance of dodging away too.
Whilst the block players are used to hit key opposong players. Most teams will only have 1 or 2 tacklers at 170 TR whilst elves can have loads of dodge and a few blocks at that range, I recently played Rotters vs wood elves (LRB4) at 175TR, the wood elves all took dodge 1st skill and had some block too I only had 2 tacklers and it was incredibly had to get hold of them.

Of course you need some other skills in there like wrestle, tackle and strip ball, but blodge is the key to surviving.

NoS is an appauling skill imho, unless you intend to pass/catch with the player and position him for an assist as well. i'd prefer 2 linemen with sidestep and diving tackle for defence and harassment than 1 player with NoS.

I was refering to taking it on a runner as he already has Dump Off, it makes a decent combo should he get hit with the ball (and sooner or later it will happen) especially with all the AG4 elves nearby. 2 Pro elf catchers, one with Dump off are a real pain to deal with.

as for dwarves, i agree tackle can be a pain, but u can normally combine a few chain blocks and have ur player dodging away from the runner or blitzer who dont have tackle normally till much later. the dwarf coach is so used to having lots of tackle, he neglects his positionals, and u can run circles around them, meaning lots of tackle still isnt enough!!!!!

anyway, feel free to agree or disagree, coaching styles come into play as much as anything else. Personally i find 7ma too slow, but thats just me... 5ag ma8 sprint sure feet blodge is something every elf coach would like...

Dwarfs aren't that hard to beat, I really don't understand why everyone hates them so much, one mistake and a loose ball and it's game over for them. The only danger is what happens in the game after, my pro elves have been devastated by dwarfs in the past, and they can be annoying difficult to hurt back.

Axtklinge

07-01-2008, 11:08

I agree with most opinions on either elf teams.

I also agree that the best elf team is WE, but depending on the league you play (type of teams you play against), with AV7 they tend to have problems to stay in the pitch.

With that said, if one is not experienced with elves, I would advise to play with HE.
An interesting balance between MA and AV.