The bedroom is the least of our problems because nobody is there but us. The moment we go outside, the safety of home is gone. The discrimination is palpable. That is what Steve means by the depth and breadth of our realities.

Please reflect on everything you've saidbut this time apply it to people of color.

To your point,yes... the conversation so many people wouldreally rather not be having is long overdue.

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

btw, not a reply directly to you Cel, I was just being lazy in my replying habits.

It does matter in many cases. I remember making a comment on some things that Rush said about Anderson Cooper and about Anderson's reply on his show to Rush.

It became clear to a few people in this forum that from the nature of my comments I did not know that Anderson Cooper was gay. That changed the conversation. I believe Rachel Maddow slipped into the conversation, another person that I did not know was gay - and that changed the conversation.

Now of course a person's sexual orientation doesn't always (or even often) change the conversation. And again, it is the step of bravery it takes to be openly gay and in the public eye that impresses me, not the gay part, the openly gay part.

"Among other interesting things" is what I said in my original comments about Mr. Takano. The other interesting stuff: he taught Brit Lit for 26 years, he ran for the House multiple times over a long span before finally getting elected. He also looks a heck of a lot like a teacher at my school named Mr. Takano, but I doubt they are related.

The bedroom is the least of our problems because nobody is there but us. The moment we go outside, the safety of home is gone. The discrimination is palpable. That is what Steve means by the depth and breadth of our realities.

Please reflect on everything you've saidbut this time apply it to people of color.

To your point,yes... the conversation so many people wouldreally rather not be having is long overdue.

The same applies here...I don't care what color people are...Label, label, label.....

The bedroom is the least of our problems because nobody is there but us. The moment we go outside, the safety of home is gone. The discrimination is palpable. That is what Steve means by the depth and breadth of our realities.

Duh. You're turning my post on it's head and making something of it that was not intended. But.. you do that with most all of my posts.

The same applies here...I don't care what color people are...Label, label, label.....

Actually that was my point (too)

That it was mistaken (miss-taken = taken the wrong way)

That IMO you were not dismissive of that which you were being ACCUSED of dismissing.

yet Leslie, being so (TOO) closely involved of the topic under discussion, she becamedismissive of the fact that her impassioneddefense of those being DISCRIMINATED AGAINSTthat she Failed to See what was Right In Frontof Her (and everyone else's) Eyes, that can'twrap-their-head-around what it's like to,(as Pres. Obama said) "...to be followedaround a store... etc etc etc"

The difference being, there was no way to HIDE the fact that they were Black......they were "stuck with it" ...like it or not

As I said...

The discussion is way way way over-due...

When even people involved in their OWN Formof Prejudice are unable to recognize the EXTENTof what it's like to "Walk that mile in Each Other's shoes"

Only an outside observer could plainly see thatNeither You NOR Leslie were guilty of thatwhich you were being accused of by stating thatthere 'SHOULD BE no REASON to Use LABELS' but as Leslie was trying to point out.. "In Reality... it's still a Fact of Life YetTo Be Dealt With!"

and as i said (again) "...and the discussion is Way WAY Over Due"

(yes, Leslie.... "NO WINKIE" )

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

yet Leslie, being so (TOO) closely involved of the topic under discussion, she becamedismissive of the fact that her impassioneddefense of those being DISCRIMINATED AGAINSTthat she Failed to See what was Right In Frontof Her (and everyone else's) Eyes, that can'twrap-their-head-around what it's like to,(as Pres. Obama said) "...to be followedaround a store... etc etc etc"

The difference being, there was no way to HIDE the fact that they were Black......they were "stuck with it" ...like it or not

I said it applied to all oppressed (same as discriminated against) groups.

Are you suggesting Black people would hide their blackness if they could?Are you suggesting GLBT are lucky to be able to do so?

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