Since there was a request for open thread about the team AMD Request to play with hidden cards in one match, I will open the thread.

PRUE Miguel Trouxas D'Ovos wrote on Fri, 02 November 2012 20:08

i would like the TD rule on this in a open thread, stating who asked (seems it was by AMD captain) why asked and why accepted.

[quote title=SNS Stephan1972-Octopussy wrote on Fri, 02 November 2012 20:05]

Sysyphus AMD wrote on Fri, 02 November 2012 22:36

With TD's agreement and following a request made by onyx puffin on behalf of AMD team, the match GSV-Sysyphus will be played with hidden cards.

Here is My response to request for an open thread:
Indeed I requested on behalf of my team for this one match set to be with hidden cards, and offered to even have the other match scheduled that day to also be hidden cards if that team would like that. Note their player is the higher ranked player in that match.

Again please note, it is hidden cards, not a closed game that we requested. People can watch the match. And NC rules do allow for this. My reasons for the request were stated in a pm to the TD, and they do not need to be published anywhere. It should be sufficient that a ruling by the TD was made on this request in the affirmative.

AMD is trying to be open with the fact that we did make the request, and the TD has allowed for it. We share that information with this community.

Onyx
This not areal answer. More like an answer from a politician who speaks without little substance

If someone asking for a match with hidden cards, for me that is the same as saying that we suspect this player to be a cheat. This suspicion could be based on facts or just vivid imagination.

When I was a captain for TRUE we asked the TD for a similar request. In this case we declared why we asked for it. The person who was the reason for the request had the possibility to defend himself.

You are saying that you will not declare your reasons because you do not need to. I think you do. Not because NC rules but because of just basic ethics. You should not accuse anyone without giving the person a chance to defend themselves.

By the way, do you remember last round robin in NC 2011?
ommie - GSV, with GSV higher ranked.
I've asked to play with hidden cards because you are never sure when you play vs ommie that Sysyphus will not give some advices.
Sysyphus told me that it was ridiculous. So we played with open cards.
By the way, I won 3-1.

I have no problems with the decision of our TD, but I agree with O.B.! Onyx should be clear.

1. We didn't want it to be a huge public drama...hence, ask for info from TD because this isn't really an accusation of cheating.

2. We wanted people to be informed before the match started, so no fuss is made during the match.

3. We're not sure how available Truckie is this weekend.

As for GSV's super awesome request last year...that was made just as I arrived to play our match. No warning ahead of time, and obviously, the TD had not been consulted. Sysy wasn't even around at the beginning of the match, so it was others in the lobby that told GSV the match had to be open. His initial excuse...he just didn't want anyone to watch him. Only later did he reveal the reason why. To me, that was the most unbelievably rude thing anyone has ever done to me in TTR. I show up for a match, and BAM...I get that in the face. Thanks. If anyone is any bit suspicious of my abilities....I think I've proved myself this year. Sysy has been at work (hardly able to watch anything) during almost all of my matches. I've actually played better when he wasn't around...

Game 2 with Patterson has nothing to do with this request. It never came up in any discussion. While it was interesting, it was normal enough not to think about it after it was over. A BIG reason this request was made....GSV has 4 accounts. And, he uses them all. It's not his family using those accounts, it's him. He's verified this...hence, changing the names to GSV1,2,3,4 after he was confronted with the issues. GSV2 (aka aioli) is regularly used as a second account when the GSV account is super high ranked. GSV2 showed up to cheer for GSV during CL. That account (his wife) has never shown an interest in ttr events before that tourney, nor since. So, we've taken a 'precaution' so that no GSV accounts all of a sudden show up and 'cheer'. Considering the situation and the importance of this match, the TD thought our request was reasonable. He can verify that once he concludes his weekend adventures.

Well, it would seem like the rules allow the TD to allow "hidden cards" in certain clashes (rule 17.D)

I had hoped that my "seems reasonable" PM reply to onyx would have started some PM's between Sysyphus, Onyx and GSV3 (possibly with me in the CC), but unfortunately Sysyphus and Onyx have started posting here and in the group B thread, after informing GSV by PM but not receiving an answer yet. So that was a bit rash by, Sysyphus. Zero points there.

If there is a dispute, a team captain can PM me and add many others to the CC. In accortdance with Rule 20.B I will then make an official statement. If there is no dispute, that's fine with me. In any case, don't go on a posting spree.

I would hope GSV3 and Sysyphus schedule their match soon, games will be played with hidden cards. Best of luck to both.

Personnaly, I feel uncomfortable when 2 NC players living togother are playing/watching the same game.
Why should I trust them when they cannot trust a well-known multi-accounts player with only 1 connection at a time?
Anyway, Harriet Braiker wrote "Break the cycle and assert yourself."
Let's play the match with hidden cards or even close if you want.
V

Im not accusing Julien or Megan of cheating at all, but they live in the same house... And that's probably enough for people who havent played for ages with them to at least be suspicious. I've always had it in my mind that they certainly wouldn't look at opponents cards to cheat etc, but if I was living with someone and saw they were about to make a stupid mistake im not sure I'd keep quiet, so in Vincents defence I don't think he was unreasonable... They are in an unusual situation!

Again im not accusing of any cheating! But if anyone were to cheat, they would be in the best/easiest position to do so, which is probably why Vincent was cautious...

It's a competition, if you want to play with hidden cards then go ahead.

If I'm lower ranked and you want to play with hidden cards, I don't care. I'm not gonna get bent out of shape thinking that I'm being accused of cheating.

I mean the higher ranked player could be cheating too.. ie getting help from another top player who sees his cards. So even a lower ranked player should have the option of playing cards hidden!

The opinion that having a match closed will ruin the NC is complete nonsense. Maybe in the Finals, or even the KO rounds, but in the RR, be serious.

Some people also might just like to play closed for other reasons than they suspect the other person might cheat. I play all my casual games closed especially the other maps. I've played alot and learned the map the hard way, and I don't want some top watching a few games and getting free lessons without actually playing.

And maybe Sys wants the cards hidden so that when he loses, the rest of AMD can't tell him how stupid he played, and its his fault we didn't get into the KO round (and when he mentions my 0-6 lose to Olle, I will pretend I don't hear him!).

And any mention of Ommie and Sys collaborating is just stupid, I could be helping out just as much and I'm 1000 miles away, with a telephone, or this modern technology thingie called Skye, or even my cybernetic carrier pigeons (they have warp capabilities!).

Thank you Ommie for taking your time explaining.
I understand now that you did not want a big public drama but sometimes trying to keep a low profile backfires.
Better to have it all open I think.
Finally I totally agree with Drake. It is stupid to think that it is a higher risk to cheat if you live together.
Looking for some great games tonight
OB1

Personnaly, I feel uncomfortable when 2 NC players living togother are playing/watching the same game.
Why should I trust them when they cannot trust a well-known multi-accounts player with only 1 connection at a time?
Anyway, Harriet Braiker wrote "Break the cycle and assert yourself."
Let's play the match with hidden cards or even close if you want.
V

This is ridicoulus and one of the worst offenses I heard since I play TTR!
I know at least 8! couples that play TTR personally

- and with personally I mean that I have met them in REAL LIFE - one of them are Ommie-Sysyphus!

Someone like WASA GCV3 (or anyone else) doesn`t even know how many other "couples" are out there in this community. Now you bash and accuse Ommie or Julien - just cause you know they are married???? How weird is that? You mean couples are better off if they don`t state that they are married or live together? bahhh

When this game was started online there was a lot of fun and most of us trusted each other - and thanks to bassie we even started to meet one another in real life! Bassie is one of those players married to another ttr player btw. And very sadly he left this community, part of it beeing such offenses and continuing suspicions.

I have no idea whether after all these years my word is worth anything - but for ALL these couples that I have mett personally I can say that they are amongst the fairest and most trustly people that I have met!

Our TD knows how offensive the accusation of players living together is! This is NOT good for our community, it is discriminating - I myself find it just digusting.

Sorry - just had to say this I feel so sad how some things develope here and that you allow this to happen.
And just to clearify - my wife is NOT playing ttr - I am none of the above mentioned couples!

???
Offense? Where?
Certainly not my purpose.
Last year I suggested to play vs ommie with hidden cards (or maybe close, I don't remember), just in case of... to avoid any discussion afterwards.

Sysyphus told me that my idea was ridiculous, and I trusted him immediately.
So, we played open games and everything went fine. No problem at all.

So, sorry Masimo, but can you explain me why Sysyphus is now asking for hidden cards? I can't follow anymore.
Reason would be that I have 4 accounts, and you never know...
Who is offensed, do you think?
But, as always, I've accepted the decision.

Such a post is certainly not a good idea.
I would like to see more positive posts here from guys who know me. I would be nice.

my post is not about this special incident - maybee I should have opened a seperate thread.

My post is about the suspiciousness that you carry into the forum, just cause players live together, married or not

Quote:

WASA GSV3 schrieb am Sat, 03 November 2012 20:29

Personnaly, I feel uncomfortable when 2 NC players living togother are playing/watching the same game.

two of my teammates are married as well - most of you know that and we had similar stupid comments in the lobby in the past.

As Drake stated - it is so easy for anyone to have someone else play for/with him or support any other player through skype - so can you tell me one point that makes playing couples more suspicious?

This tournament (and I guess all our tournaments) need trust - and in my eyes this has to be earned. So to get back to this special case - (I don`t know the details ... but apparently a player doesn`t trust YOU / and the TD sees this as substantial?? else he wouldn`t rule for closed cards??? - at least this is what I understand from this thread?) - then ask yourself why that is so and don`t bash back on someone else or even on a whole group of players.

I think this shows what a difficult position these situations put the TD in. Saying 'I don't want to play open cards with X because I don't trust them' is one thing. Asking the TD to give an opinion on whether that mistrust is justified is quite another.

Perhaps in future in would be better simply to leave it to individual players to decide whether to play with hidden cards. That would make these situations far simpler and less awkward.

Some players trust no one - fine, some players trust their online close friends or people they have met in real life - fine, other players (the vast majority I am sure) would trust everyone in the tournament unless there is some conclusive proof to the contrary.

By the way, there may also be lower-ranked players who would choose to play hidden so that they can play/block creatively without fearing accusations of cheating (especially if they are relatively new or unknown).

I think this shows what a difficult position these situations put the TD in. Saying 'I don't want to play open cards with X because I don't trust them' is one thing. Asking the TD to give an opinion on whether that mistrust is justified is quite another.

agree - I didn`t consider this aspect. Sorry for that Trucker.

I do not agree though on leaving the decision of hidden cards up to the individual player. Discussion had been plenty in the past about closed/open/hidden card games and in all these past years the conclusion was always that especially the NC lives of the spectators. Also we always agreed that watching is far less fun if cards/tix whatsoever are hidden. You can search the forum for all these posts.

Did I miss out on a change of opinion regarding this?

For me it is rather a question of how we can cope with this neverending story of mistrust. Over all it is just a game!

Just as adition to my other posts: GSV is not the only player claiming couples to be potential cheaters. I know of other (highranked) players that do so and it happened this years NC in a match that I watched. Even the statement "it was just fun" after the match doesn`t make things better.

I only posted here because there is this generalizing claim (in this thread) that couples are potential cheaters just due to the fact that they live together. And that is something I cannot tolerate.

at the end of the day being in a house with multiple accounts, or being a player with multiple accounts (which are declared) or even being any other player (who might be on skype to their mates) should not make you less trusted. We all fit one (or more) of these categories. In all situations there are possible ways of cheating if one wanted.

So yes, I agree it is about trust. If someone does not trust someone then either don't play (as suggested here) or if we are to allow hidden cards at all then I do think it would be better to leave to individuals to decide when.

The current half way house of asking official sanction from TD for particular situations seems a bit unfortunate however. I think most players would be furious if someone asked to play hidden cards against just them and the TD agreed (this is not at all to question your decision truck, just trying to imagine how I would feel about it).

Massimo, I disagree with your view that you have to earn people's trust and how you present that here. I start the other way round, people have to do a lot to lose my trust. Even if you accept your view that you have to earn people's trust, the players that have earnt my trust might not be the same players that have earnt your trust, or sysy's or GSV's? too complicated

Ok. its within the rules, but i think this shouldnt be TD decision. i think hidden cards shouldnt be an option in NC.

2) AMD request / GSV

Well here i have to disagree what was mostly written. For me asking to play "Hidden cards" = Saying GSV cheats! Its the same thing for me. He might have more than one account (other players playing NC also), that doesnt mean he will cheat.

I think its equally possible that any other user might cheat (being a couple, 2 friends, 2 brothers (me and rui for example) or someone with a 2nd/3rd account.

I see a probelm when TD accepts it (and i think in this case Truck is placed between a wall and a sword) that GSV (and others) might understand this as "i agree u might cheat". Thats another reason we should take that option from rules. I think if someone is eligible to play NC then there's a basic principle that we all agree that is also eligible for Open game.

I Had some users that i pointed towards Truck, that i dont consider trust worthy, and gave my reasons but from the moment they are eligible to play i wouldnt consider asking hidden cards at all.

this being said i think its a bad move from AMD, a hard call by TD, and GSV (whom i dont have any kind of relationship and also not my fav player on TTR) is the one being offended.

Am I the only one who speaks four different languages and can see things from other people's perspective? Why fight? There's no reason for it.
Really, I'm gone for a week and you people start fighting again.

Personally, I'm in favor of hiding my cards. However, I have to agree with RFAD and Drake, if someone wants to cheat, they will cheat. You can always find a way with modern day technology.

I will tell you that when I played my matches against Ommie, the thought did cross my mind that Sysyphus might give her a tip or a hint. I'm not saying he would take the mouse out of her hands and play a few turns, but more like how Will said it - that if you live together, it could happen that you might give your spouse, roommate, child or whatever, a tip or hint when you see them almost do something that could cost them the match. And it doesn't even have to be on purpose. Someone could just blurt out a hint in sheer enthusiasm, in the heat of the game.

Now, before the screaming mob comes after me with pitchforks and torches, let me just say for the record that I do NOT accuse Ommie or Sysyphys of cheating in any way (I do accuse Sysyphus of being a crybaby when it comes to me overdrawing in Royal Rumbles, but that's another story). No, Ommie was simply the better player and I suck up my loss as a man. But did I have suspicions of Sysyphus possibly giving her a hint? Yes, I had. Regardless of whether I know someone in person or not, you just don't know what's happening on the other side when playing online. I always have healthy suspicions. It's the internet, people, the INTERNET. Hell, even my own mom and sister-in-law give each other hints when I play board games with them. So if I can't even trust them... get my point?

Ultimately, let's just listen to uncle Masimo - it is just a game. A game, however, that I take every seriously......

I swear, that if I do not become the Ticket to Ride World Champion in the next 12 months, I will unleash terror so ugly, so atrocious on this community, that it will even make Mike Tyson poop in his boxer shorts. You think I'm playing, huh? Well, let me tell you that I'm not playing, Jabroni. The Maya where one year off with their prediction. From now on I will lie, cheat, hit you over the head with steel chairs and finish the game against a DumbBot when you have connection problems. And then, when you will cry about it in the forum, I will laugh in your monitor and ask Days of Wonder for permission to post pictures of myself in various compromising positions just to insult you even further and show you my might. I will psychologically destroy your sorry donkey.

And now I will leave you with this rhyme
That you should stop your whining and drink some wine
You are ugly and therefore you must die
Now bow to my might
And say your final goodbye
Oh, and by the way...
I dated your mother
Word

(As soon as I find some fitting music to accompany those lyrics I'll make a hit song out of it with Justine Bieber on backing vocals.)

Now give each other a big hug and stop behaving like children. That's my job.

So, you guys just put on the same plan, 2 persons playing with 2 different accounts but playing in the same house, with a player that plays with several accounts, one of them being used by both his wife and him, and that popped up occasionally to watch ?

I did not say anything in that thread before Peter's post but this one is one too much !

Like Stephan rightly pointed : you don't earn trust, you lose it. And it was the first game I ever played with hidden cards... Why GSV lost my trust ?...
although I've been more patient than some others in the community;
although I played him in CL final open cards not too long ago - which has nothing to do with revenge like I was asked or told...
Maybe, he should think of it. I haven't reconsidered his skills... Just the attitude that I should adopt, considering what I experienced before NC. Trust can be lost not only because of cheating, but just because of behavior...

Why ommie would now be more suspicious than 2 teammates on skype like Drake mentioned (whose post is, who whould have thought ?, the most sensible...) or compared with the case above?
Why has ommie lost your trust ?

Maybe ignorance might have not made you remember that she was the fastest player (in number of games played) to reach 1700 some years ago, before we ever chatted together... Only second accounts were faster... Ignorance made you forget that she was top 10 way before than you guys ? You don't know because she doesn't post her record once every 3 posts ?

I'm not known as somebody, who agrees with Will and Miguel very often, but in this case I do. I cannot understand ur behaviour on both sides. I had to play the all-deciding last game in CL-Final against ommie. U always have an angel and a devil on your shoulders, and the devil told me: "SYSY HELPS HER!" The angel: "NO, NEVER!" The devil: "HOW CAN U BE SURE?" The angel: "I CANNOT, BUT 1. THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO TRUST (in Vincents case, also a 2. acc is no reason! also a cheering wife isn't) AND 2. THIS GAME IS NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO START A DISCUSSION ABOUT CREDIBILITY WITHOUT ANY PROOF!" And if u are surprised, that this discussion started, u were naive.

I think, u both had this devil on ur shoulder too. But to follow his advices was stupid. Sorry

Ok, I did not want to say anything anymore before Sysyphus' post, but now I'm just baffled and have to ask a few more questions...

Sysyphus and Ommie, GSV3 - and I'm not talking about 1, 2 or 4, but THREE - is a decent player and I will not have anybody drag his name(s) through the mud. It's not his integrity, it's YOUR credibility that's on the line here. You play all innocent now, but may I remind you, and everybody else here, that Ommie SPECIFICALLY told me that "the baby was hungry" after she beat me? Seems to me that there is even a third player involved...

You need to earn our trust back. And this you can only do by providing this community the following information:

- Where you were during the time I played my matches against Ommie

- Screenshots of where you were at the time I was playing Ommie

- At least two witnesses who can confirm that (pets are excluded)

- A digital scan of your registration code of the board game version of this game

- The receipt of the board game version and the name of the store where you bought it

- An ultrasound scan (because we need to know if Ommie is really pregnant and to rule out the involvement of a possible third player)

- Copy of your wedding certificate

- If you or your alleged wife had any red meat two days prior to the matches

- Drug tests from both of you to check for steroids

- Your favorite color

- Your shoe size

Thank you very much in advance for your cooperation.

I'm sorry for all of this, but you brought this on yourself.

It really saddens me that this kind of cheating can happen on the highest stage of train combat. It's a disgrace.

did you loose to the monster baby? i think it may be time to retire bro - the next generation is obviously superior - this development of double clicking and drag / drop from the womb is really incredible

Well, as humoristic as your post may be, you clearly give credit and echo to the BS described above in one paragraph.

You could also not hide behind the massive the excessive use of modal verbs or hypothesis for your argumentation, which suggests that this paragraph was quite dispensable.

You wanted to be considered, in the name of humor, as the future of awesome here in TTR, so I did. In the name of humor, I just said that you played that multi like crap, helping you be back in the present (not to mention that you also really helped ommie to win against you ).

To excuse your behavior, you refer to brain surgery but i feel like you do not need to provide information about it. Maybe your posts just lack of details including your TTR records.

About people now worrying about the consequences for the TD.
I can assure you that he can deal with this situation without any problem... I thought you would have realized that the drama of the past is over.

To Kasi : Devil does not exist neither carebears do... And if the devil would exist, I fear he would appear in the form of Truckerteller... unless I am the devil and I can not realize it.

Now, before the screaming mob comes after me with pitchforks and torches, let me just say for the record that I do not say that Peter is not funny, not that I do not use color in order to be discrete<

Ok, one last item to discuss in this thread. I wanted to wait until NC was over before bringing this up, but I also want to address a specific issue before other tourneys start.

I am not ok with the 'suspicion' directed to me in this thread. And, I am not ok with people thinking that was a normal reaction. I have proved my skills as an individual player: I've made it to the top 10 ranking overall, I made it to the first multi tourney finale, I won FUN tourney, and I was AMD's hero 2 yrs ago (over Drake and Maunaloa). All this was done BEOFRE Sysy and I got together. I would think myself as consistent...I win some, I lose some.

But, according to several people in this thread...the minute Sysy and I are in the same house, my brain disappears and I lose the ability to think for myself. Seriously? If the argument of players living together and getting help from each other is going to be made, where are the comments of Sysy getting help from me? Is that the initial thought when people play Sysy now? To me, this reaction concerning me was extremely chauvinistic. I'm disgusted with people thinking I'm less capable now that Sysy is with me.

I'm not the only one this affects though. Do people have the same chauvinistic view concerning dizz, xsandrax, Nayeli, hojita, maia...? Just because our male counterpart is a number 1 doesn't mean that we instantly need help. (and screw you if you think so)

Now, comparing this to the initial issue with GSV...it doesn't work. Let me just say that our team would not have done anything if GSV had played anyone else on our team. This was an issue that Sysy had...and it was approved by Truck. And, nothing happened other than drama. BUT, there is a huge difference between mutliple accounts used by 1 player and players living together. Where have the majority of cheaters come from in the past? Family members? No. Mulitple accounts? yes. Do we think that all people using multiple accounts are cheaters? no. Do we think that people using multiple accounts need to be checked on? yes. Sorry, but if you are going to use multiple accounts, you will be watched. If you don't think those people need to be watched, then I'd say you are the naive one. (Funny that Kasi used naive as a word, being the captain of some people using multiple accounts, and after having a cheater on his team a few years ago...) You just never know.

I will acknowledge that there will always be the possibility that family members can help each other. However, this has yet to become a problem in our tourneys - unlike catching someone with multiple accounts. I will not accept the chauvinistic reaction as far as I'm concerned. I was embarrassed by GSV 2 yrs ago in NC with him showing up and asking for hidden cards in front of all the spectators. Apparently he also thought it was normal because I've never received an apology from him. I don't need help, and I do not accept the degrading of my skills as a player due to my spouse. I hope none of the female players I mentioned here experience this chauvinistic bias.

I'm not the only one this affects though. Do people have the same chauvinistic view concerning dizz, xsandrax, Nayeli, hojita, maia...? Just because our male counterpart is a number 1 doesn't mean that we instantly need help. (and screw you if you think so)

Hi there,

and yes Meg, you are not alone with that

It was the second NC and I blew a good player with 3:0 away.
I was very excited, cause I never thought I could beat her but this is the special thing of NC. You can be beaten by everyone!
Anyway - after the match the player created and joined multis and then she left. As far as I remember she lost about 300 points and I asked some players in the lobby - what the heck is she doing??
Which was a silly question, cause it was clear she thought I won by cheating. Other players were laughing and said, Pete didn't help or played the games, because I played it very quickly

Then - a few years later again - i beat a top player in NC - and that guy was and still is my friend!- had this little devil on his shoulder. For a few seconds he couldn't believe, that I really played the games. While playing he said something like that and i just thought - oh please, not again and not you!
So I asked him: are you serious??
I dunno the words exactly but he had his doubts. The game wasn't played till the end but it was clear, I will win. I was p... off though and so I left the game and went off.
Then he realized what he was saying and felt shitty as well. He tried to call me, so my whole team but I didn't want to talk to anyone. As you can imagine it really hurt me.
After a while I talked to him and he apologized many many times.
I accepted because he felt sry about it and because we know each other in person and we were friends. And we still are!
Now some of you might think why - I'll tell you - because we are adult and solved the issue.

We all have our own little idiosyncrasies and we should think about that first. I am tired of the whole discussion of liars and cheaters.

To Peter d Z: you called my cpt. uncle and you are right - he is a wise man when he says, that this is only a game!
Honestly I think some of you take this game too serious.

Well Will, who's going to suggest the chauvinistic viewpoint? The guys who think their reactions are normal? Go read the post again...the reaction I got was ridiculous. "Oh yeah, I thought ommie might get help too..." Why do I need help? I've already proven I can play at a high level. Why does Sysy not get those comments? There is a difference in perception, and that's why I brought it up. Not necessarily looking for a fight, but I will fight to prove my point. I'd never use the excuse 'cos i'm a girl', but in this situation I felt that's what happened.

The main reason there are more men than women in the top 20 (if that is the case, I am not bothering to look) is because women are typically better at knowing they are good at something without having to show it with statistics than men.

The difficulty here is that when you are involved in a competition of any sort, some people will believe what they want to believe. I once played in a league (for a different game) with both my brother and my spouse. Most people in the league were happy to have us play and thought nothing of it. There were some that decided anything we did was probably collusion of some sort. It didn't matter that we actually made the game more difficult for ourselves by doing our utmost to make it clear that we were not favoring each other.

The saddest part about this is that there are people who do take advantage of situations like this. It becomes sadder when we let that small set of people upset the rest of us.

As far as I'm concerned, I enjoy the community of players that play this game, whatever gender, country, etc. So, I keep coming back to it - even if I get annoyed with my own playing.

I realize some of you are trying to lighten the mood by making jokes. That's cool sometimes. But, in this case, we just need to recognize that someone was hurt by what was said and/or done.

#1: Classical cheating - partner looking at the (higher ranked) opp's cards and telling them to the player.
This is bidirectional, no matter who is the better player, or male or female.
Good news: That's obviously not the case here, otherwise Sysy would get the same comments.

#2: Helpful partner - the guy watching his partner play, who cannot keep his big mouth shut //joke on// ... a feature commonly considered as primarily male ...//joke off//,
and cries out "play the yellow, didn't you see the opp took them open".
This has only one direction: A player who is (or perceives himself as) better than his partner wouldn't listen to such "helpful advice" //joke on// ... and some men wouldn't listen to their wives in any case ...//joke off//

The latter probably happens easier than just blatant cheating (because it doesn't feel that much like cheating, and because it sometimes "just happens" without being planned?) but of course it is cheating as well.
The well known TTR couples are certainly aware of that and take precautions not to let it happen, like never being in the same room when one of them plays a tournament.
So if you trust them not to apply #1 you should also trust them not to apply #2.

British Unsportsmanlike??!! We invented cricket and crown green bowling! Argument won

Im playing badminton vs Truckerteller and Peter de zeeuw at mixed doubles with dea soon at Haagse Bos. And Sven promised to wear a skirt!

A very sporting tournament! I think Britain may have invented badminton too Bean!

The funny thing is that im daft enough to turn up at the Haagse Bos!

Truckerteller wrote on Thu, 25 October 2012 15:09

SNS Will-Skyfall wrote on Thu, 25 October 2012 04:51

Sven may even pop a sexy lil skirt on and play mixed doubles with peter de zeeuw... You never know!

If you promise to go to bed in time and not give me that icy stare you're showcasing here, AND you all show up in the "Haagse Bos", I will gladly get my skirt out and whoop your behind. I won't, however show you my undies. I'm a good girl after all.