The Appeal of “Bad Boys”

Doctor NerdLove explains that what makes a “bad boy” so appealing isn’t his badness, it’s something even nice guys can do, too.

If there is one thing that men, especially nerdy, geekier men—men more prone to be Nice Guys and White Knights—will complain about when it comes to their dating problems, it’s that women don’t like “nice” men. No, frustrating the millions of men who heard “I wish I could meet a nice guy like you”1 and took it too much to heart is the way that the “bad boy” seems to win women’s hearts and loins.

There is no dating cliche older or more lingering than the appeal of the “bad boy”. One of the most defining characteristics of known rake Lord Byron is that he was famously “mad, bad and dangerous to know”.

Narcissistic. Drug abuser. Self-destructive.Unable to keep it in his pants. Perpetually running out of money. All he needed was to be in a band to get “bad boyfriend” yahtzee.

It’s a subject that I have talked about before: the idea that all women love assholes and that this is programmed into them genetically; after all, assholes are often more “alpha” than the Nice Guys who complain about them, therefore it is their inevitable destiny to fall for them… usually on their backs. Therefore the key to being more attractive is to be “bad”.

It’s a short-sighted solution that builds on a collection of mistaken assumptions reinforced by confirmation bias and poor understanding of human sexuality and evolutionary psychology… but it’s not entirely wrong.

In fact, the appeal of the “bad boy” is something that psychologists and sociologists have been interested in for quite some time. And it seems as though they may have found some interesting answers.

♦◊♦

I Told You I’m A Psycho…

It is unquestionable that men and women with certain negative traits personality traits seem to be more popular. We all remember the Queen Bee at the top of the high-school pecking order; the most popular girl in school, enforcing her will through manipulation and cruelty. Similarly, it seemed as though the douchiest of jocks were inevitably the Big Men on Campus. We can’t stand them… so why do assholes seem so popular?

Well, it turns out that three personality traits known as the “dark triad” are actually associated with being able to enhance a person’s physical attractiveness.

Although admittedly it sounds a lot like the McGuffin that Gannondorf steals in every installment of Legend of Zelda.

The so-called “Dark Triad” consists of three separate but overlapping personality traits – perceived as having similar underlying commonalities:

Narcissism – defined as an overly developed sense of self-worth and entitlement matched with intense egotism.

Machiavellianism – defined by the person’s reliance on manipulation to get what he or she desires without regard to others as well as a cynical dismissal of morality as “for other people”.

Psychopathy – a loaded term; it doesn’t refer to a violent maniac, but to someone defined by reckless thrill-seeking, selfishness, lack of remorse and affect and a certain level of superficial charm

Scientists have known for a while that narcissism—for example—actually has direct correlation with initial popularity. In fact, a study conducted in 2010 by Mitja Back and Boris Egloff of Johannes Gutenberg—University of Mainz found that, upon first meeting them, people thought that narcissistic individuals were “flashier”, “more confident” and more immediately likable.What made things interesting is a new study, conducted in 2012 by Nick Holtzman and Michael Strube of Washington University in St. Louis found that individuals whose personality types conformed to the dark triad were perceived as being physically more attractive than people who didn’t have darker personality aspects.

To test this idea, Holtzman and Strube invited 111 college students to participate in a study. The students – more women than men – were photographed in their usual clothes, then given grey, featureless sweatsuits to change into. Anyone wearing make-up was asked to remove it while anyone with long hair was asked to pull it into a ponytail. The idea was to take as neutral and natural a photo of the participants as possible as a control. Students were asked to answer a questionaire and rate themselves on a personality scale. To help counterbalance any errors introduced by self-reporting, Strube and Holtzman alsointerviewed acquaintances of the subjects about their personalities. From these results, the subjects were rated and scored with relation to dark triad personality types.

The photos of the subjects—both the dressed up and neutral shots—were then shown to strangers, who were asked to rate them in terms of physical attractiveness. Those who scored higher on the dark triad were consistently found to be more attractive by strangers than those who rated lower… but only when they were dressed up. When all of the subjects were wearing the sweat-suits and showing their more natural look, the influence of the dark triad personality type disappeared.

Heeeeyooooo… I got my haaaaaalo….

As it turns out, those individuals who ranked higher on the dark triad scale were better at making a better presenting themselves and knowing how to make themselves look better. Just as with the earlier narcissism study, those with darker personality traits were better able to cultivate their sense of style. They tend to wear edgier, more stylish clothes that make them stand out more2, wear a more fashionable hair style, have more confident body language and smiled more.

In short: they know how to make a better first impression than other people do. By knowing how to display themselves to their best advantage, they made themselves look better. By doing so, they take advantage of a phenomenon known as the “halo effect”: because they are perceived as being more physically attractive, we automatically assume that they’re also better people – kinder, smarter, more trustworthy, etc.

As a result: the more psychopathic or narcissistic you are, the better you are at conning people into thinking you’re actually a good person.Y’know. Deep down.

Possibly very deep down.

So clearly the key to success in dating is to learn to become a functioning sociopath, right?Wrong.

Also, There Are Downsides…

One thing that the Black-Etjoff study found is that the those people with dark triad personalities may make for great initial impressions but lousy long-term ones. In fact, their personal popularity tends to drop the more people get to know the real person behind the flash and smoke.

Y’see, the dark triad personality types are pre-disposed to short-term goals and thinking; they focus on immediate goals (“How do I get her in bed?”) and less on long term ones (“How do I get her to go out with me again?”) which hinders them in the long term… including financially. They’re much more likely to go for the immediate (and smaller) reward than for planning for a future (and bigger) one. They’re prone to stealing partners from others and are more likely to have substance-abuse issues and are known for having lowered standards—sometimes drastically—for sexual partners. The dark triad also has a correlation with excessive agression towards others, bullying behavior and racist attitudes.

It’s almost impossible to keep the charade up for very long; inevitably people will start seeing the man behind the mask and start realizing that he’s actually pretty damn repulsive.

This makes it rather difficult to maintain relationships for very long. Even if you’re willing to sacrifice the long term relationship on the altar of more frequent, no-commitment sex, people talk and social circles are smaller than you’d think. It doesn’t take very long for a reputation for being an asshole to spread and effectively limit your available dating pool. Similarly, this is not behavior that ages well; time and gravity make fools of us all eventually and what can seem charmingly rakish at 20 quickly becomes boorish at 3o and just embarrassing at 40.

Finding Your Creamy Bastard Center

It’s like I’ve said before: it’s not a question of bad behavior or that being “bad” is inherently attractive to women, it’s that traits that women find attractive are frequently found in assholes and narcissists.

This, in case you haven’t been paying attention, means that you can cultivate these traits to your own advantage without the negative aspects that come with them.

A person’s physical attractiveness isn’t binary; it can be affected by something as minor as overhead lighting vs. indirect lighting. Simple changes in posture can alter people’s perception of a person’s attractiveness. Even people who are considered conventionally beautiful often benefit from some external help.

The people with high dark triad scores knew how to make a better first impression by crafting their look to their best advantage.

You can do this too.

Find Your Archetype:

Start by figuring out what your sexy stereotype is. Are you a rocker or a business tycoon? Do you aspire to be a modern dandy like Andre 3000 or are you more of a Mod? Find a base line look that’s congruent with your identity and use this as the foundation for everything else.

Cultivate Your Style:

Be willing to stand out and make a statement. Cultivate a style in line with your archetype and make it your own. This means that you have to be willing to take some risks and break out of clothes that—while psychologically comfortable—cause you to blend in with the herd. You may feel like you’re playing dress-up at first, but the more you try, the more natural you will find that it becomes.

Make Sure Your Clothes Fit Right:

Use Confident Body Language:

Narcissists, psychopaths and Machiavellians aren’t shrinking violets; they stand up tall and take up space. They want people know that they’re there. Everything about them screams “confidence”—their body language most of all. Even if you’re not feeling confident, adopting confident body language—standing up straight, letting your limbs relax, moving deliberately and with purpose—will help you fake it. Even more importantly, using more confident body language will make you feel more confident… and confidence is sexy.

SMILE.

For fuck’s sake, smile. A big, genuine smile that reaches your eyes. A friendly smile makes you much more attractive than a blank affect or trying to look “serious”. Part of George Clooney’s appeal is that grin—equal parts friendliness and mischief that promises stories you’ll be telling for years to come.

“Bad boys” may be attractive at the first glance, but only because they know how to sell themselves up front. They have to; they have no long game and they know it. The more skilled you become at creating an immediate positive impression in others the more of a leg up that you’ll have over those bad boys. You’ll soon find that you’re having levels of success that they could only dream of.

Not only will you have the style to make that great first impression… but you’ll have the substance to back it up.

About Harris O'Malley

Harris O'Malley provides geek dating advice at his blog Paging Dr. NerdLove, as well as writing the occasional guest review for Spill.com and appearing on the podcast The League of Extremely Ordinary Gentlemen. He can be found dispensing snark and advice on Facebook and Twitter (@DrNerdLove.)

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RE: It doesn’t take very long for a reputation for being an asshole to spread and effectively limit your available dating pool.

It’s just the opposite; having a reputation as a bad boy will expand the pool of women who want you. Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but it is a great big world out there with over 7 billion people in it. How else would Charles Manson, for example, get 800-odd pices of fan mail per week from his groupies?

@ Davaluri “Regarding the bad sex or no sex relationships, and what a raw,sucky deal it is to be in one? YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE IN ONE.” Your absolutely right, but I think a part of this is due to misplaced “rape culture” and “rape hysteria”. Some people advocate a enthusiastic consent standard for sexual consent, which leaves no room for compromise. If telling your partner that you’re dissatisfied with the sexual aspect of your relationship and saying that you’ll leave if it doesn’t change is equated with rape (pressuring someone for sex), what are his options if he… Read more »

Nice guys, bad boys… what a load of crap. These articles are great for authors, because they drive a lot of traffic (129 comments and counting on this one… I wonder how many pageviews it generated) while hinting at, but not quite nailing down the truth. The truth is that you don’t have to be a bad boy to get laid, and putting on a bad boy costume and using “confident” body language can only take you so far (and it ain’t very far at all). What so-called “nice guys” need to truly understand is that what most nice guys… Read more »

@DD.. Overall, a good concise post DD. I don’t agree with everything, but most of what you say is indeed true. Getting women is about being funny, confident, carefree, and charming…AND sexually aggressive. Women love sexually aggressive men, so long as they are not crude…. Just communicate with body language that you want them sexually…I have learned this after 17+ years of a BS marriage. What a waste. You wrote, “….nearly everything said about the women wanting bad boys to have sex with and good guys for relationships is complete and utter crap.” Then you say, “Most women, whether they… Read more »

Jules, I realize this thread is mostly dead now, so I thank you for taking the time to read and respond, so I thought I should take a moment to clarify what I meant. You said: Implicit in YOUR logic IS a preference by women for these so called bad boys/jerks. Women simply have the nice guy as a fall back by default “as their general attractiveness starts to wane.” This is absolutely what I meant to imply. I think its a myth that women prefer nice guys for relationships. Many simply settle for nice guys after realizing that trying… Read more »

This is what I believe: the men most women REALLY want to screw and the men they want to marry/settle down with are mutually exclusive. This is why sex is so lousy in marriage and long-term relationships, IMO.

Now, whether it is as you say (the men they want are not willing to stick around) or by some other “default mechanism”, I really do not know.

However, no one will ever convince me otherwise. I think the evidence is there for all to see, if only they opened their eyes.

Well, it seems * some* men on here put words in my mouth after reading my last post. Words that don’t belong to me- words I would never say or think. They also took their anger and biased thinking and applied it to me. Nope- I don’t own that so keep it to yourselves. These are the certain men commenting on here, that have such a strong inner rage at women( be it the women of their past- present or in general) that they can barely keep civil on this forum. I can actually feel the angry breath coming out… Read more »

And I’d like to add. Very few people are “nice” or “bad.” These things fluctuate with time and situation. This goes for all people. There are people out there who think that I’m a huge b*tch and there are people who think that I’m incredibly nice. I’ve been good in some life situations and times and bad in others. It’s not one extreme or the other.

@ AYA- It can’t possibly be just me, but I have to say this as one woman to another: are you sure you really know the idea of a nice guy? Because the examples you gave- the self proclaimed nice guys who actually were not and the bad boys that are bad- but not * that bad*? None of these men described sound like good relationship material. Or maybe the not so bad bad boys in your own mind are good material for you. Everyone has the right to feel they know what is best for them. So maybe they… Read more »

@C.I.M.,… This is some terrific advice to any woman. Clearly, you have the depth of experience and know what you’re talking about. Yes, we need to seek out decent human beings. Obviously, people prone to violence are not, in my view, decent. But, for some odd reason many women take up with these kinds of men. There is something about these men that seems to excite a lot of women, even if it results in pain and dysfunction to the women. So, being a decent human being is just not good enough I suppose. Perhaps, it does not create chemistry… Read more »

The point of the post was to say that people who consider themselves nice guys aren’t always so nice. That there is much more to see than on the surface. Same goes with guys perceived as jerks. What I’ve noticed a lot of men do is to look at a guy who is with a woman they want or is successful with women in general and hone in on whatever might make them seem like a jerk on the outside. Then, when they look at themselves, they fail to notice qualities and actions that make them not-so-nice. And like I… Read more »

Aya Who perpetuates this dichotomy more than women when they are asked about their preferences in men? As I said before, ask a few thousand women what kind of a man they want and you’ll have the vast majority of them uttering the same old garbage about nice guys and how difficult it is to find them these days. You think men dont want to live in a world where there are no confusions about this issue? We grow up listening to this garbage about nice guys, its every where in the dating advice given to men. So you cant… Read more »

@Aya… “Same goes with guys perceived as jerks.” Yup! Same goes for serial killers, rapists, murderers, and child molesters too. I personally do not consider myself to be a “Nice Guy.” Rather I am just a pretty decent human being who believes in and practice empathy, kindness, compassion, and a generous spirit. What is nice or bad to one person is different for the other. But, I do know a lot of women, especially young women, are driven by novelty and variety and that which is uncommon. I am Black guy and there are white women who want to screw… Read more »

I do want to say that personally, I’ve had a lot more bad experiences with outwardly or self-proclaimed “nice guys” (as friends and as lovers) than with guys who seem bad on the outside. One was so starved for female attention that he took it at my expense and humiliation. Two were extremely controlling and physically and emotionally abused me (one to the point of stitches). My nice guy male friends look at ex-gf humiliation sites to see if anyone they know is on there when they could just be watching p0rn. Some “neg,” which I hate. I don’t mind… Read more »

@Aya,… “My most stable relationships so far have been with guys who are outwardly perceived as bad boys. The first one was with a guy who punched walls, yelled, threw shit, said inappropriate comments, smoked, drank, etc.” “I ended up choosing to be with the one who outwardly seems like a bad boy. Not only does this guy have a girlfriend, but a vast history of drug abuse, he’s a womanizer, he’s arrogant, and almost everyone who meets him thinks that he’s an asshole.” While my intent is not to offend, these guys sound like thugs and degenerates. But, if… Read more »

HOT WOMEN SLEEP WITH A LOT OF MEN? UM- NOT THE ONES I HAVE KNOWN! I had friends who were average, pretty and downright beautiful. They did not neccesarily have sex with a lot of men in their dating lifetime- nor did they have a desire to. I am not judging people who want to have sex- or want night stands. I am balking at the blanket statement someone made that attractive women can be counted on having slept with a lot of men. I think it is backward- a lot of men might want to sleep with very attractive… Read more »

Very hot “high value” women don’t sleep with a lot of men only because they are in such high demand they normally go from one relationship to another without any time as a single woman. This is especially true if they’ve been considered “hot” since high school. Hot girls who blossom in college or after high school generally seem to have many partners.

I want to say that a lot of the responses have been thought provoking, while others are heavily tinged with emotions- pretty negative ones. I have some pity for some posters. Actually wish I could make their life better, but the truth is, that power is in their hands. ******************************************************************************************** Regarding the bad sex or no sex relationships, and what a raw,sucky deal it is to be in one? YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE IN ONE. I read about the reasoning behind why some men have horrible or non-existent sex lives. For the most part the blame was put on… Read more »

@C.I.M…. “In closing I wonder why anyone would stay with a person if they were that unhappy or bitter or sexually unsatisfied.” Unfortunately, I did so for over a decade for the sake of “family.” But, all I suffered was added torment and mental anguish. Hence, I filed for divorce. I have been single and getting lots of very satisfying sex from two women. Just regret it took me so long to figure things out. Overall, I like you post. It is fair, balanced, and quite reasonable. The fundamental problem in America is that men are at a considerable disadvantage.… Read more »

yes, some women lie to get what they want. some men lie to get what they want. Some women and men make good partners who are generally honest and not manipulative. neither gender is the enemy. It doesn’t mean we should all just give up trying to be honest people because we’ve been burned. better to learn from the experiences so you can avoid them in the future, and know the signs to look for so you know who to avoid.

@Rowan…. “It doesn’t mean we should all just give up trying to be honest people because we’ve been burned. better to learn from the experiences so you can avoid them in the future, and know the signs to look for so you know who to avoid.” While in theory I would agree. However, from a practical point the man is still at a disadvantage. The information is asymmetric! So, when trying to “look for” the proper signs, often such signs are deceptive. Hence, it is best to simply avoid. I am big believer that the number of sex partners a… Read more »

@Jules I re-read your post( thx for the kind words on my latest one, glad you liked it and found it to be one of hope as opposed to doom and gloom). I think what I am getting out of your post( and correct me if I am wrong) is that women sleep with the bad boys- and marry the good guys, but withhold sex from them or just are not enthusiastic about sex with them after marriage? Or is this also picked up on while dating( lack of interest in sex)? If a man picks up on that with… Read more »

C.I.M Yes, men too compartmentalize women, just as vice versa….having casual sex with the slutty girls but wanting wholesome girl for marriage But here’s the difference…The compartmentalization has nothing to do with the womens sexual attractiveness. Every man marries a woman he intends to have the best sex of his life with. Infact most men have much higher standards for women’s physical attractiveness when looking a wife, than casual sex. Women dont need to worry about not being sexually / physically appealing to their husbands. Men distinguish b/w the 2 types of women simply based on their sexual history. The… Read more »

@keith I understand that basically anyone can screw anyone, so it makes sense that men would be okay with a one night stand even if the woman is not that great looking. It makes sense a guy would want a nice looking or hot wife. But looks don’t always carry over to good sex. As for the theory you present with the bad boys being the ones women like to fuck? I must be out of the norm- I find character and morals and similar interests with a person to be sexy. Someone who * gets me* is damn sexy.… Read more »

I am more turned on mentally about commonality than looks. Besides, with commonality there is a good chance you each like each other. Looks can wear off on you( the appeal) and they also definitely vanish over time. That sounds very reasonable. Somehow, though, it seems like any time I’ve heard a man express the same thing, it prompts a response from women about how hurtful or unacceptable it is to feel “settled” for, that a man is supposed to find her the most beautiful woman in the world, no matter what. So, if a man says he’s more mentally… Read more »

@ Marcus Attraction DOES matter or else you remain friends. ( So we have to agree that to a degree- and the degree varies- looks/ attraction matters) I had to get that part out of the way. I would say looks matter less than commonality and connection, because those things act as a turn on for me. ( I understand everyone is different) For me, it is not just an attraction to a person that would seal the deal- which it seems to do for many people. I don’t care how hot you look if we can’t connect on other… Read more »

“Men are more about eye appeal. Women are emotionally based when looking for partners.”

It depends on a partner for what purpose. If a man just wants to get laid, eye appeal/hottness is the primary driver. Same for the women! If she is looking for only sex, physical attractiveness and safety are the primary drivers.

Women are more driven by novelty and variety when it comes to sex. SO, the emotion for booty calls and casual sex is just not that important. It is the ability of the man to give her some good sex, period.

It seems like when women say all that you outlined, that they are being open minded- not shallow or superficial- willing to overlook certain things and it all comes across as if she is very kind ,mature and expansive in her thinking when it comes to men and relationships. If a man says looks don’t matter- and he claims he means it, I wonder about 2 things: Is he seriously sincere about that statement. I mean really sincere, because so many people find it extra easy to lie online due to our invisibility OR Is this a ruse just to… Read more »

The reason for that is simple: looks matter more for a man than it does for a woman.

Don’t worry, women aren’t more noble or more morally upstanding than us men though. To them, this same shallowness doesn’t come from valuing looks so high. What they highly value is power and money.

This is why you always see the rich old guy who has more money than god with the young bombshell. Both of them are immoral and total piece of shit character. Neither one would you want to be friends with in terms of personality.

@C.I.M…. “I think what I am getting out of your post( and correct me if I am wrong) is that women sleep with the bad boys- and marry the good guys, but withhold sex from them or just are not enthusiastic about sex with them after marriage?” Almost. Let me clarify things for you. What I am asserting (and observing) is that many women will have sex with varying types of men: bad boys, good boys, ugly, thugs, crazies, convicts, degenerates,……it is ALL based on sexual attractiveness. Many of the men are men whom a lot of women would not… Read more »

@Jules Okay- this is what I took away from your explanation. Sadly the first part is: husband equals boring sex partner. I don’t feel that is true, even though I have never been married. You have encountered women or know of women who seemed to deliberately withhold sex from husbands. Everyone in a loving relationship deserves to have sexual intimacy if both partners have agreed on that already. Suddenly icing out a partner is wrong. I would be questioning why a woman is icing out her husband because face it- it means then, that she too is NOT getting sex.… Read more »

@C.I.M… “They will date the * slutty* girls- but end up marrying the wholesome nice girl.” “One type of girl is to kind to have sex with- one is meant to be your wife and possibly the mother of your future children.” Yes, men do this as you say. But, here is the big difference. These men do not go pinning for such women. Men do not treat these women better than their wives. They do not buy them clothing from Nortdstrom, Neiman,etc….There wives will be treated much better in ALL areas. Why? Because a man values his wife far… Read more »

@ Jules- Actually some men DO take something away from the relationship once they are married. As you claim many women withhold sex- or cave into it grudgingly once married, many men stop the romance and wooing. The attitude is” Well, I have got her- she is my wife. I can stop trying now.” I am not saying all men are like this. But it is about as prevalent as your point about women’s change in attitude toward sex after marriage. Why this happens? It varies by the person. But if a woman withholds sex, she is also punishing herself,… Read more »

C.I.M.
What exactly IS it that women do in a relationship, If we the two sexes by effort?
is there something women do that forces them to work harder then just being female?
A guy has to be masculine and forward, etc, etc. That shit is tiring. What do women do?

C I M Because romance and wooing is, more often than not, one sided. Ideally, why should a man need to put more effort to get what they both want – sex and intimacy ? If a man is desirable, if a woman is truly attracted to a man – physically and sexually – he wouldn’t need to bend backwards to earn sex and affection from her. But you imply that men need to earn sex from women. Why shouldn’t sex happen naturally and effortlessly for both partners, if both of them need it equally? If after marriage, a man… Read more »

@C.I.M… Your points are well taken and respected. So, in essence what you are saying it that is is an exchange: romance and wooing for the woman in exchange for sex? Well, If that is what is happening, then I guess it is so. But, if the woman loves her husband and views him as sexually attractive, then why is the romance and wooing really necessary? While married, my ex wife and I did dinner dates, traveled, stayed at local hotels for a weekend…Still the sex was only once a month. So, my point is there is no guarantee this… Read more »

C.I.M.
Often the sex is quite good in the beginning. For some “strange” reason, the downturn often come pretty soon after you have entered the commitment phase of a relationship. I don’t think it’s so much a question of people just not wanting to be alone, and/or wanting a relationship at all cost, as it is a question of entering relationships on a kind of false premises…

@FlyingKal I read your post and for the life of me, I don’t get why this phenomena happens unless as soon as things get more * official* in a relationship( commitment) concurrently the element of that initial excitement with one another is dying down. Not dead- just dying down. It is impossible to have or keep the same level of sexual excitement as when you first met ,because a large part of that excitement was not knowing each other as people and one another as sexual partners. If anyone is thinking they can have that awesome early magic for a… Read more »

If you are in a relationship, you’re supposed to grow, together. Learn each other quirks and wishes, even the unspoken ones. Why then, is it impossible to keep the “excitement”? Is excitement for the unknown really the only thing that can spark an interest? I was as attracted to my GF after nearly 10 years as I was in the beginning, however she just grew increasingly indifferent towards me. Is it something wrong with me (and my lust/sex drive?), or is it a fundamental man vs. woman thing?

I think that women that need a “bad boy” for casual sex is probably kinda sucky in bed. Think about it. you need a guy that does the most of the work because you youself just don’t know what too do. That’s why it seems that promiscious women have a more “natural” view of men. They know that they only need a normal man that can contribute 50% of the sexual confidence and she can give the rest. If this theory is true I feel sorry for the poor saps that get’s into long term relationships with the sexualy unconfident… Read more »

@Nistan…. I feel sorry for poor saps who get into long term relationships with women, period. I was one of these poor saps, so I can speak from experience. It is not that many of these women are lacking in sexual confidence. They want the good sex from the “bad boy” while searching for the poor sap the get into a relationship. The good sex is the driver for the bad boy. But, because women value relationships more so than men, the relationship is center of attraction for the poor sap. That why the sex is so crappy with these… Read more »

Nistan I do agree that promiscuous women do not require men to put all the effort, but they are attracted to fewer men to begin with. A woman out there just to have casual sex and flings will usually only consider a small slice of men she deems physically attractive. On the other hand a woman looking for dating and relationships will consider a larger number of men and is likely to be more forgiving to men on looks. For ordinary looking men the only option would be to make themselves more acceptable to these women for the purpose of… Read more »

Hey Keith, it isn’t the looks that women care about as a whole. It’s the power they portray. Or in other words, just how much of a true alpha they are.

In fact the hotter the female, the less effort she puts into finding a man for a relationship. This is because every man (she thinks) is offering himself to her. Every alpha is scoring her in bed is the reality. And this small slice of the population of men (probably 10-15%) is what her idea of what a man is.

@ cashdoller Whoa- you actually sound like a man who doesn’t like your own sex or you are a female who is totally disgusted with the opposite sex. Your input is interesting, though it does come across as disparaging to a large percentage of men in the world. (Speaking of the world- we also need to keep in mind cultural differences within men around the globe because it really does affect their behavior and attitude toward women and relationships.) While a percentage of what you write is true about Alpha Males( not sure what percent)- I could never put males… Read more »

Even if it is a first meeting in a group setting, and we start off with harmless conversation,it is hard not to pick up on his need to beat me with knowledge- top me in achievements- talk over me when trying to make a point rather than allowing a mutual exchange of ideas, etc. The thing with these Alpha males is not so much that they are trying to dominate the women in the group setting at the first meeting, as they are constantly trying to dominate and topping the other men in the same setting. And THAT is something… Read more »

@ FlyingKal. Actually that scenario does unfold as well. Men trying to best each other in a public setting. However, I have had this happen to me even on a one on one situation with a dominant male, where there is no competition around. My opinion is dominant is dominant is dominant. If that is the personality type- it rarely ever changes. If there is no one to show off to and they do it, safe to say, they are naturally dominant. Though I admit and agree, that a male can temporarily go into that dominant mode for the reasons… Read more »

“I just gotta ask: Are narcissistic macho posturing and sexual prowess in bed really that positively correlated, in women’s experience?

I mean, I would have thought that a polite man who shows that he delights in giving pleasure to women would generally be a better lover, no matter if for one hour or for six months, than a jerk who wears his egotism on his sleeve. And wouldn’t cause anymore hassle than that drunken dude not waking up next to you next morning”

It is because they are DOMINANT in bed and women are attracted to dominant men.

My personal opinion, as a woman, is it’s really a turn-off if a guy is macho. there IS a certain type of woman who goes for macho men, often from working class areas, but they are definitely not the majority. Women tend to like confidence, which is not the same thing. macho guys do tend to act confident, but so do lots of non-macho guys. It’s the self-confidence that attracts. And, obviously, looks matter, just as they do for men (though probably matter less for women generally). But yes, looks matter, as the research pointed out, learning how to look… Read more »

That’s what I always thought too. I’m sure it’s on a sliding scale as the selection is large. But generally alpha’s are confident and score all the hot chicks for a reason. Confidence goes a long way when your plugging away at another hot babe after another successful score. As far as being dominated, the hot girls love to be dominated. You’ll get the artsy dumpy alternative chicks into all types of stuff. But those smoking hot girls you only dreaam about putting your dick in all need and crave domination. It just goes with being super feminine, which is… Read more »

You either have massive confirmation bias, or your experiences are limited. Either way, you are being simpleminded, shallow, and demeaning.

Keep right on ignoring the artsy alternachicks, however. More for guys like me, and they can be incredibly sexy, unless one has the issue I suspect you have – the Vespa syndrome (fun to ride but what would the bros say?)

Listen it’s pretty simple actually, you have three types of males. 1. Alpha Males – these are the type of men that fuck about all the hot women on the market. They compose maybe 15-20% of the adult male population. You can be alpha by default by having a lot of money, fame, power, prestige – which usually takes alpha qualities to attain and hold on to that status in the first place. OR you can just be a regular guy but have game. Without game, no hot girls. That’s just how it goes and no matter what you want… Read more »

I can actually relate. If you don’t feel you live up to society’s idea of manhood – or you don’t buy into it at all (which is my situation) – you’re going to have to lump a lot of negative self-image. And one way to get thru the day, given that reality, is to deflect it onto men as a group. I resent men a lot more than I do women. Where is that getting me, you might ask? Thru the day, alone. I have a ways to go, but I know it’s going to have to get a lot… Read more »

@ Patrick. I hear you but please know this: Many women have male friends they absolutely adore as wonderful guy pals but who they are not physically attracted to. Can we fault them for that? You can’t make yourself like someone- love someone or find them attractive. In fact, I tend to find that many men ( but not all) are a bit harsher on their criteria for looks/sexual attraction when it comes to deciding to date someone- particular those on dating sites or those being set up on a blind date. You can tell because while many women will… Read more »

I’m, sorry, but… I don’t get how you answer relates to my comment at all? Not trying to be snarky here, I really don’t.

My point was only that, in this particular article but also in some of his other pieces, Dr. NerdLove puts the burden on men to hear what women don’t say, and then imply they are stupid if they don’t. And that’s… Not helpful at all. Actually, it’s the exact opposite. That’s all.

Wait a minute. I can clear this up very easily. NICE GUYS DON’T FINISH LAST- WOMEN ACTUALLY WANT NICE GUYS. BUT THERE IS A CAVEAT, SO BEAR WITH ME HERE: Yes, many misinformed women like a man who is a bit macho simply because they don’t know any better. And it is not always the young women who are guilty of this mistake. Women who should know better, still repeat the same scenario of dating a macho man and then complaining when he acts- well, macho-but in a totally idiotic way. Can you say PUTZ? These women have macho and… Read more »

That pretty much sums it up. Conditioned from birth to feel unworthy, women reject “the good” for ” the bad” because it feels more familiar…I feel sorry for most of the 70 or so, women I’ve gone out with in the past six years…it’s a shame.

Yes, having a sense of style is important, but when the clothes (and make up) come OFF, there better be some substance under all that wrapping. Cultivating confidence and a pleasing personality should be the higher priority.

A few people on the previous commenting page have noted that sometimes women get into relationships with dark-triad assholes and stay in those relationships, go on to get married and have kids, and even admit themselves that their boyfriends/husbands are jerks. As a woman, my observation on this is that the women in these relationships are often, for lack of a better description, willfully pulling the wool over their own eyes. Some of them operate under the belief that any relationship is better than no relationship at all. Some of them actually thrive on the drama, the unpredictability, and ‘excitement’… Read more »

I don’t think the issue is really so much about women having relationships with dark-triad assholes, or who they chose chose to have casual sex with.
I really think it’s more that a lot of women seem to enter long-term committed, supposedly monogamous relationships with men that they are not really sexually attracted to, but deeming other qualities more important, and seemingly taking for granted that her view of the importance of sexuality in the relationship is mutual and reciprocated.

“….and seemingly taking for granted that her view of the importance of sexuality in the relationship is mutual and reciprocated.”

Yes, and then these women convince themselves or pretend to convince themselves that the man shares her view of sexuality in the relationship. It is this unilateral thinking that causes much of the problem.

I really believe that many women just do not feel nice guys either deserve or desire much sex.

Mr Supertypo: i think that bad boys maybe trigger certain fantasies in women, just like sexy women does that at least to me. I dont know for others. So maybe a bad boy for some women are sexy? if thats the case be a bad boy for one night. Be the Fonz *hey* *thumbs up* 😉 Yes. Well. That is probably true. However, my concern here is not so much what “arbitrary” women (i.e. the ones I’m not with 😉 ) do on their sexy time and who they chose to spend it with. It is more what the one… Read more »

@KKZ, I don’t think it’s a matter of “pulling the wool over their eyes.” It’s called being in an abusive relationship. Don’t forget that narcissists tend to prey on people who are vulnerable, and that narcissists are expert manipulators. By the time a woman realizes she’s being abused, her abuser has control of so many aspects of her life, such as finances and children, that it makes it extremely difficult to leave. It’s not a “love the drama” situation 99% of the time!

“No, frustrating the millions of men who heard ‘I wish I could meet a nice guy like you’ and ignored the silent ‘…who I would be interested in fucking’ […]” Just a hunch – Could it be that they ignored it because it was, you know, um… Silent? It might come off as a surprise, but most men aren’t telepaths. If you say “i’d love to met someone like you” and don’t add the “who I found hot” conditional, men will go and think “Huh… You met. Me.” And then will proceed to wonder why they weren’t qualified. And honestly,… Read more »

Well, this explains the first two dates. What isn’t covered is the relationships that go on with everybody, sometimes including the woman in question, agreeing the guy’s an asshole.
Whole ‘nother thing.

Like I said above, it doesn’t matter if you have a “dark triad” personality because just by getting the first few dates it doesn’t matter. Momentum carries you through to the part where everyone already knows you have a bad personality. Women in particular won’t want to give up on a relationship where they’ve already “given” the guy sex because they won’t want to admit that they were used by a bad guy.