1. It only happened to me in a BG. It happened to a guildie in LFR. Assholes are toxic and don't know how to tell someone they suck in a constructive manner.

2. I know my class. I have for 7 years. Between all the sites, the addons, and the forums, I often know more than I want to. I admit I miss my shockadin with a 3 button rotation

3. Learn how to respond to people. See your comment #1 for clarification.

You're still missing the point that those who suck are the ones who are the source of anger in groups. Stop sucking problem solved. Simple as that. Saying that others need to respond in a different matter Ishtar trying to shift the blame. It shouldn't matter how they respond because you shouldn't be fucking up like that.

3. Learn how to respond to people. See your comment #1 for clarification.

I've been playing since vanilla - how long should I reply nicely to people before I'm so tired of explaining something to every random person in every random dungeon / raid / bg that my attitude becomes "toxic"?

Also, why is it my responsibility to tell these people what to do and how to do it? There's zero sense of responsibility ... in game and out.

My original, edited (added more) post since people probably wont go back a page to see it:

Step #1: Grow some thicker skin and maybe spend 10 minutes learning how to play instead of 10 minutes whining on forums

Step #2: Research your class and fight mechanics before join a raid with 24 other people. Elitists (aka the people carrying you through the raid) aren't there to hold your hand and most of these "elitists" wouldn't say anything if people:
a) didn't do stupid shit
b) pulled their weight
c) spend 20 minutes researching a fight / class and / or a wing of LFR (or whatever) before queuing and causing the raid to wipe for 4 hours

Step #3: See step #1

Casual is not an excuse for being stupid. I raid 2 nights, 3 hours each night for a total of 6 hours a week working my way through heroic content.

All of this political correctness is whats wrong with LFR. Take a hint, if someone says you're bad ... you're probably bad; and instead of whining and crying and having a tantrum on the forums crying foul, you should go learn how to play and how fights work.

Oh, and before the "I have a real life and I cant dedicate my time like you do to world of warcraft" excuse comes into play, I call bullshit; if you can spend 4 hours in a single, 4 wing boss of lfr wiping repeatedly - you can spend 20 minutes doing some research, watching some videos, and hitting a dummy to work out your rotation / priority so you don't look like a tool in a raid.

Follow those steps and I guarantee you'll see less and less people complaining about anything during a raid - you might even see some of those social aspects of the game come back when things go smoothly because people wont be complaining.

You're still missing the point that those who suck are the ones who are the source of anger in groups. Stop sucking problem solved. Simple as that. Saying that others need to respond in a different matter Ishtar trying to shift the blame. It shouldn't matter how they respond because you shouldn't be fucking up like that.

Everyone will make mistakes. When someone makes a mistake do you say, "Stop fucking up and learn your rotation." or do you say, "Jesus christ you fucking scrub, uninstall and kill yourself." How you respond to people is the issue. If they are deliberately wiping, or being lazy, or afk, or being a douche themselves, then kick and move on. I am not asking, nor have I ever asked, anyone to be handheld. I simply said, we need fewer assholes in LFR.

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Originally Posted by dubious_doomhammer

I've been playing since vanilla - how long should I reply nicely to people before I'm so tired of explaining something to every random person in every random dungeon / raid / bg that my attitude becomes "toxic"?

Once. Be decent the first time. If they fail to change or improve, then kick them. All I am saying is, unbridled anger should not be the INITIAL response.

I am not asking, nor have I ever asked, anyone to be handheld. I simply said, we need fewer assholes in LFR.

Assholes will go away as soon as people stop requiring hand holding and start being self sufficient.

Once. Be decent the first time. If they fail to change or improve, then kick them. All I am saying is, unbridled anger should not be the INITIAL response.

I have no patience for that anymore, and I'm sure many others don't as well. As I said before, assholes, angry people, yada yada ... they'll all go away when people can queue for lfr and not be completely retarded (yes, I understand shit happens and that's not the retarded I'm referring to)

Assholes will go away as soon as people stop requiring hand holding and start being self sufficient.

I have no patience for that anymore, and I'm sure many others don't as well. As I said before, assholes, angry people, yada yada ... they'll all go away when people can queue for lfr and not be completely retarded (yes, I understand shit happens and that's not the retarded I'm referring to)

False,

Assholes will remain in this game until the day it dies. It is the LAW of the internet (and live in general).

Having played this game for so long I have to sometimes hold back my inner rage when I see the same mistakes are made day in day out in LFR. As long as people are not causing the rest of the group major problems (like a DPS taunting the boss die get rez'd do the same again thus wasting a battle res we could have used on someone who would actually do something with it) then I let a lot of things slide (lowish dps for example I can handle so long as the boss dies and the DPS numbers are not stupidly low).

I will however try not to speak to people in game etc like complete trash. That right is reserved for my brother ;D long may the floor boss continue to wipe him!

Everyone will make mistakes. When someone makes a mistake do you say, "Stop fucking up and learn your rotation." or do you say, "Jesus christ you fucking scrub, uninstall and kill yourself." How you respond to people is the issue. If they are deliberately wiping, or being lazy, or afk, or being a douche themselves, then kick and move on. I am not asking, nor have I ever asked, anyone to be handheld. I simply said, we need fewer assholes in LFR.

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Once. Be decent the first time. If they fail to change or improve, then kick them. All I am saying is, unbridled anger should not be the INITIAL response.

Raging isn't the first response. It's the response when you have the 500th WSG group who cannot work as a team, when you see the 700th person die to avoidable damage.

It doesn't matter how you respond because its impossible to kick shitters. Anything seen as certifying another person's performance is "elitist" just as how in the past judging a persons talents was elitist. There is no way to kick a third of an LFR group because the moment you say anything you are buried in insults. Stop it with the "holier than you" stance you know that if I went into a group and said "kick the shit Mage can't dps at all" I would be called an elitist prick regardless of how bad the Mage is doing. Doesn't matter how you say it, the mouth-breathing community interpretes criticism the same way, so people get fed up and get angry.

Also, to die in LFR it takes multiple fuckups. More space for error means you need to be worse to fail, so by the time somebody managed to die it means they are doing something very wrong.

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Originally Posted by khalltusk

False,

Assholes will remain in this game until the day it dies. It is the LAW of the internet (and live in general).

Having played this game for so long I have to sometimes hold back my inner rage when I see the same mistakes are made day in day out in LFR. As long as people are not causing the rest of the group major problems (like a DPS taunting the boss die get rez'd do the same again thus wasting a battle res we could have used on someone who would actually do something with it) then I let a lot of things slide (lowish dps for example I can handle so long as the boss dies and the DPS numbers are not stupidly low).

I will however try not to speak to people in game etc like complete trash. That right is reserved for my brother ;D long may the floor boss continue to wipe him!

You know exactly what he means. People won't get mad if there isn't anything to get mad about. Nobody can rage about damage if everybody is doing good damage. Griefers will remain, yes, but people will not end up in arguments when there is nothing to complain about.

I have no patience for that anymore, and I'm sure many others don't as well. As I said before, assholes, angry people, yada yada ... they'll all go away when people can queue for lfr and not be completely retarded (yes, I understand shit happens and that's not the retarded I'm referring to)

Well it's no wonder you took it personally. It would seem you are precisely the anger management candidate to which I am referring.

Raging isn't the first response. It's the response when you have the 500th WSG group who cannot work as a team, when you see the 700th person die to avoidable damage.

It doesn't matter how you respond because its impossible to kick shitters. Anything seen as certifying another person's performance is "elitist" just as how in the past judging a persons talents was elitist. There is no way to kick a third of an LFR group because the moment you say anything you are buried in insults. Stop it with the "holier than you" stance you know that if I went into a group and said "kick the shit Mage can't dps at all" I would be called an elitist prick regardless of how bad the Mage is doing. Doesn't matter how you say it, the mouth-breathing community interpretes criticism the same way, so people get fed up and get angry.

Also, to die in LFR it takes multiple fuckups. More space for error means you need to be worse to fail, so by the time somebody managed to die it means they are doing something very wrong.

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You know exactly what he means. People won't get mad if there isn't anything to get mad about. Nobody can rage about damage if everybody is doing good damage. Griefers will remain, yes, but people will not end up in arguments when there is nothing to complain about.

I do know thats why I said it is false.

Someone somewhere will find something to rage at. This is the internet. I had a smooth run on Saturday and I still got raged at as someone did not like the fact I had just got my legendary cloak. I shit you not. (some random in LFR said I was a shit cunt and didnt deserve the cloak as he had worked "harder" for his cloak)

I had a smooth run on Saturday and I still got raged at as someone did not like the fact I had just got my legendary cloak. I shit you not. (some random in LFR said I was a shit cunt and didnt deserve the cloak as he had worked "harder" for his cloak)

THAT person is a big part of the issue. Asshole elitists who think they are entitled. Could not just be happy for you like most people would be, or even a little jealous. I can't believe the level of jerk some people stoop to.

Someone somewhere will find something to rage at. This is the internet. I had a smooth run on Saturday and I still got raged at as someone did not like the fact I had just got my legendary cloak. I shit you not. (some random in LFR said I was a shit cunt and didnt deserve the cloak as he had worked "harder" for his cloak)

How dare you make their run easier by getting an upgrade you casual prick.

THAT person is a big part of the issue. Asshole elitists who think they are entitled. Could not just be happy for you like most people would be, or even a little jealous. I can't believe the level of jerk some people stoop to.

What makes you think your complaints are better than his/hers? Your feeling are hurt just as much as his/hers, so why do you think your argument has any more merit over his/hers?

Originally Posted by Spotnick

Nobody, and I'm sure it's nobody, enjoy carrying people.

Hmm, I dunno about that. I enjoy carrying my friends and family through content. I enjoy carrying people that have the decency to say "thank you" at the end. If I am on my alt and am getting carried by someone, I make sure to say "thank you for carrying me through this content".

Although, MOST of the time it's some casual jerk (like the OP) who make it so unbearable to even step foot inside anything anymore. The people who don't care about gems, enchants, and just sit there expecting to be carried are the ones I hate playing with, and to top it all off they flame the good players when they say "please consider attending your gear and learning your spec". Why should I even bother helping casual noobs when they don't even bother helping themselves?

THAT person is a big part of the issue. Asshole elitists who think they are entitled. Could not just be happy for you like most people would be, or even a little jealous. I can't believe the level of jerk some people stoop to.

Plenty of reason to be upset about that. LFR granting a legendary has made it so common that it is an expectation for organized content. Changing mains caused issues with the quest, the quest has screwed up alt play, and most of all it has caused some ilvl inflation.

There are much more idiocrats in LFR, and they usually don't tolerate elitists and kick them in sight. No problem.

I'm mostly interested in kicking people who are AFK, causing drama, or intentionally wiping the group.

Now, it might be the case that all of those people are elitists.

Given the number of people in MMOC's LFR threads who talk about how they heal by dropping a mushroom, who advocate raging at mistakes, and who pull extra trash just to see how long they can do it before someone finds the person responsible, et cetera, yes, it's possible that I only want to kick elitists, because it's possible elitists are in fact the only thing that makes LFR unpleasant.

Yet enchants and gemming is not really an elitist thing. Its a not being lazy thing. With the websites and guides we have no a days that basically tell you want to put in and even just doing it for you it is nothing but being lazy.

After all there is nothing that requires elitism in Lfr. It just requires ppl trying instead of being carried. Just imagine all 25 ppl being that way.

I enjoy good conversation, and helping others. And, as you mentioned, it is also fun to hang out. You are welcome to ask anyone in my guild who contributes the most to the bank and is always helping with guild achieves while helping level it to 25. I am confident I will be among the names of top contributors.- - - Updated - - -
.

ah. wtb a friends and family rank. don't wtb a guild that is nothing but.

Perhaps have a system that will detect vicious behavior in chat and will remove them from the LDR, but at the same time perhaps a more valuable system would be to kick those who are not doing the minimum required DPS/HPS to complete the encounter before the enrage timer.

Don't get me started on whether or not the system should include dispels, and interrupts lol.