Write fresh. Your best story is the one you're about to write, not the one you're about to revise. : )

~Moon~

I half love this idea, Moon. I love writing something new (says the girl with 150+ shorts in her drawer). But it's a double edged sword. Half of what I write as a short story ends up as a seed for novellas or novels. One of the things I promised myself is that any future shorts I write, I write to completion -- revise and submit within a reasonable period of time.

I could write it this weekend. Let it breathe, then take two weekends to revise. Hmmmmm.

I am also highly bendable toward suggestions. Damn it. LOL I might be writing a new story this weekend.

Write fresh. Your best story is the one you're about to write, not the one you're about to revise. : )

~Moon~

I half love this idea, Moon. I love writing something new (says the girl with 150+ shorts in her drawer). But it's a double edged sword. Half of what I write as a short story ends up as a seed for novellas or novels. One of the things I promised myself is that any future shorts I write, I write to completion -- revise and submit within a reasonable period of time.

I could write it this weekend. Let it breathe, then take two weekends to revise. Hmmmmm.

I am also highly bendable toward suggestions. Damn it. LOL I might be writing a new story this weekend.

Slips into a jedi robe, strokes his beard thoughtfully, and does his best Obiwan voice. "You must do what you feel is right, of course."

Okay decided on what story. Not any of the ones I had been thinking about referenced in earlier posts. But for some reason this one just popped into my head and I started rewriting the opening. I have two versions of the opening and now this third one. Evidently the one I like most is too slow and too much other stuff before it gets to the meat of the story. This new version starts immediately with the problem. So since I came up with that opening I decided to go with it. More than likely Dave didn't get past either opening to see how the rest of the story was. I think I sent in the second version anyway.

I think the rest of the story won't need much work. Or at least won't as far as I know. My last story went to the limit of my ability and knowledge and didn't get anywhere after all.

I will save that opening I like and maybe use it in a latter story or book about this character.

LDWriter2 wrote:Okay decided on what story. Not any of the ones I had been thinking about referenced in earlier posts. But for some reason this one just popped into my head and I started rewriting the opening. I have two versions of the opening and now this third one. Evidently the one I like most is too slow and too much other stuff before it gets to the meat of the story. This new version starts immediately with the problem. So since I came up with that opening I decided to go with it. More than likely Dave didn't get past either opening to see how the rest of the story was. I think I sent in the second version anyway.

I think the rest of the story won't need much work. Or at least won't as far as I know. My last story went to the limit of my ability and knowledge and didn't get anywhere after all.

I will save that opening I like and maybe use it in a latter story or book about this character.

LD: New version sounds like a winner. Just think back to what you did with your Strange New Worlds entry that made Dean buy it. Trust me, Dean won't read past the first paragraph if you aren't doing everything right. So look back at what you did for SNW. You get a little more time with Dave, but similar rules apply. Your first version for this Q sounds like you were driving to the story; your second sounds like you are in the story, and your reader hits the ground running. That's usually the place to start, and we'll keep running with you as long as you give us time somewhere to catch up. : )

But I'll say again to anyone...your best story isn't the one you're revising, it's the one you're about to write. : )

An epiphany strikes! I figured out what's important to my story and am getting rid of the extraneous crap. Doing a hand-written rewrite from the ground up. The hand-written draft is first person present tense in order to help me better get into the mindset of the protagonist, but I'll probably shift to third person past tense when I type it up. I doubt I'll continue to use this technique in future, but it's working now, and that's the important thing.

If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

morganb wrote:16,000 words and I still have three more scenes to write! lolNo way this is gonna be ready in time for Q4. Probably rolling over into Q1.

<Sigh>,Morgan

That, alas, is always my problem. It's a good problem if you're a novelist, it means you have big stories in you. Bad problem for short story writers in today's market.

I find if you're on a roll, just finish the thing. You will lose all inertia if you set it aside and go back to it later. Then, take a cold hard look at it and see if you can gut it and still have the story you wanted to tell. Or, as Dave likes to say, "Kill your darlings." : ) Everything in the story should be driving plot, and if it's not, no matter how much you love it, you have to cut it.

You can always try to write a flash piece, or pull up an oldie but goodie, just before the quarter ends. I got an HM I on a flash I wrote last day of the quarter last year. Flash usually has high energy, because it carries with it the high octane power of WILL I GET THIS DAMN THING DONE BEFORE MIDNIGHT???

Keeps you from the sucking the energy out of it, too. You have no time to rewrite. : )

I didn't even THINK about submitting something so small to the contest, either a flash piece or even a short story. I just kind of always assumed I needed at least 10K words since the max word count is 17K. Crap, I have a TON of short stuff lying around that hasn't been published yet.

There was an audible clunking inside his head as rusty gears started grinding. Hmmm...

morganb wrote:I didn't even THINK about submitting something so small to the contest, either a flash piece or even a short story. I just kind of always assumed I needed at least 10K words since the max word count is 17K. Crap, I have a TON of short stuff lying around that hasn't been published yet.

There was an audible clunking inside his head as rusty gears started grinding. Hmmm...

Every story I've submitted to the contest has been somewhere between 3k and 8k.

If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

I'm one scene away from finishing a first draft, and really feeling pressed for time. Normally, I take a while to edit (my last story went though 10 drafts.) I'm not sure if the time crunch will be good for my productivity or if rushing will harm my story. Adding to my nerves is that I've written a protagonist unlike the types of characters I usually write. I may not make it into Q4. I may decide I hate this story But, it's been fun to experiment!

I have a first draft ready, it's rough but if anyone wants to swap let me know. I would love full critique but if you don't have time for grammar/typos or in depth commentary I just really need comments on the plot as a whole, themes and stuff.

Anyways PM me if you want to swap. I have now arranged a swap with 2 people for this quarter and hoping to swap with more :).

Okay, wrote out the new opening and did a bit of revising than connected the body to it. I hope that the rest of the story doesn't need much work-this time-as I think.

I like this story, I think the basic idea is good and entertaining, I hope my writing agrees and is up to it. I would read it if written by someone else. I did my best with the knowledge I have which should be enough to get somewhere.

Except for the obsessive polishing I tend to do, my Q4 story is done. I waited too long to get it onto Critters, so would love to do some story exchanges, as I can no longer see the story for the trees. I did PM those of you who mentioned you were looking for swap partners, but the more the merrier. I think there is a board on here for just this thing and I'll post there as well. I need help getting out of HM land, as nice as it is I'm feeling a bit stuck.

Finally have a working second draft. It's far from perfect, but it's definitely better than the first draft was. I've got almost three weeks to get the story ship-shape for submission, depending on things and stuff. I feel much better about the odds of having this done in time than I did last Wednesday.

If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

disgruntledpeony wrote:Finally have a working second draft. It's far from perfect, but it's definitely better than the first draft was. I've got almost three weeks to get the story ship-shape for submission, depending on things and stuff. I feel much better about the odds of having this done in time than I did last Wednesday.

That's fantastic. I am sure working on it helps keep you sane while you are waiting to hear back on that Q3 finalist spot. How long is yours going to end up being?

I just got my second draft done as well and I chopped 3500 words off the first draft. I would like to get another 1000 out if my story swap partners agree that I can lose a certain passage.

I'm definitely in for Q4 now. Wasn't going to do it, but I'll be done with the final rewrite this weekend. Then I'll switch to Line and Copy Edit Mode next week, then Polish Mode during the final week. Cutting it close, but I'll absolutely make this deadline!

disgruntledpeony wrote:Finally have a working second draft. It's far from perfect, but it's definitely better than the first draft was. I've got almost three weeks to get the story ship-shape for submission, depending on things and stuff. I feel much better about the odds of having this done in time than I did last Wednesday.

I just want to reiterate how freekin awesome it is/was that you made finalist in Q3.Dave said it was the biggest quarter by 15%! That's HUGE.And you were in the top 8.I think sometimes not winning gets lost in the noise of following quarters. I say this with experience.But making finalist is no joke.Getting an HM is no joke, for that matter.But seriously, top 8...

I've said this before, but I feel like we have some control over top 8. We can read Dave's kicks, and follow "his instructions" for the type of WotF story that he likes. This isn't unique in following a market, so I don't mean to say this is a cheat. Analog likes certain stories, as does Asimov's, etc. But once Dave passes it on, it's out of our hands.

However, the judges only read 8 stories. Dave reads, or at least opens them all! So to make the top 8 is massive.

In short, finalist is amazing, incredible, and awesome, and permanent. You'll always be a finalist, even as you're writing your next story.

We all start at 0 each quarter, so yeah, we have to prove ourselves each time, but I don't want the achievement to get lost in the hustle and bustle of the next Q, and the next. You dun good!

Just curious. What happens when WOTF just gets too big for Dave to handle the load? Will they get a second "gate keeper"? Does he actually have slush readers or does he really glance at every single story? I can imagine that working in the past, but with the competition gaining popularity at such an incredible rate, I can't imagine it can continue.

disgruntledpeony wrote:Finally have a working second draft. It's far from perfect, but it's definitely better than the first draft was. I've got almost three weeks to get the story ship-shape for submission, depending on things and stuff. I feel much better about the odds of having this done in time than I did last Wednesday.

That's fantastic. I am sure working on it helps keep you sane while you are waiting to hear back on that Q3 finalist spot. How long is yours going to end up being?

I just got my second draft done as well and I chopped 3500 words off the first draft. I would like to get another 1000 out if my story swap partners agree that I can lose a certain passage.

Honestly? Mine is growing rather than shrinking. I keep realizing there are things I've left out that need to be in there so that the story can make sense. I keep trying to write shorter stories for WotF, but somehow my last few stories have always ended up in the 7k range. The only story I've written that was under 3k got submitted to Flame Tree Publishing first, and that one sold before I could submit it here. Funnily enough, it featured the same protagonist as my finalist for Q3. (I've heard back, by the way. I didn't end up winning. That's alright, though. I'm sure the stories that did were excellent.)

Dustin Adams wrote:I just want to reiterate how freekin awesome it is/was that you made finalist in Q3.Dave said it was the biggest quarter by 15%! That's HUGE.And you were in the top 8.I think sometimes not winning gets lost in the noise of following quarters. I say this with experience.But making finalist is no joke.Getting an HM is no joke, for that matter.But seriously, top 8...

I've said this before, but I feel like we have some control over top 8. We can read Dave's kicks, and follow "his instructions" for the type of WotF story that he likes. This isn't unique in following a market, so I don't mean to say this is a cheat. Analog likes certain stories, as does Asimov's, etc. But once Dave passes it on, it's out of our hands.

However, the judges only read 8 stories. Dave reads, or at least opens them all! So to make the top 8 is massive.

In short, finalist is amazing, incredible, and awesome, and permanent. You'll always be a finalist, even as you're writing your next story.

We all start at 0 each quarter, so yeah, we have to prove ourselves each time, but I don't want the achievement to get lost in the hustle and bustle of the next Q, and the next. You dun good!

Thanks, Dustin. I may not have won, but making finalist really was a thrill. It made me feel like I've made some serious progress in the last couple of years. After the way everything else has gone in my life this year, that was a much-needed confidence boost. I'm leaning hard into the dream of becoming a published writer/novelist, these days (perhaps harder than I should, but we'll see how that goes). I plan to finish up my story for Q4, then wrangle my novel into submission until I figure something out for next quarter.

If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

amyhg wrote:Just curious. What happens when WOTF just gets too big for Dave to handle the load? Will they get a second "gate keeper"? Does he actually have slush readers or does he really glance at every single story? I can imagine that working in the past, but with the competition gaining popularity at such an incredible rate, I can't imagine it can continue.

Yeah, I've wondered about this, but if you read David's writing kicks, he has answered how he handles this load. We know that there are "several thousand" submissions per quarter. To me, several thousand is at least 4000, which is close to what pro-magazines receive over a 3 month period. WIth 4000 submissions per quarter, David would have to read about 43 stories each and every day. Obviously, that's not possible, so how does he do it? The answer: he doesn't! He does not read every story all the way through. He starts with the first page or two. If there is no speculative element apparent, the story gets a reject. He has said that he gets many entries that are not speculative, and in fact, many are lists, recipes, poems or mainstream stories. He hasn't given the actual percentages (that I recall), but I'm guessing it's at least 1000, probably more. So now we're down to 3000 submissions. Another winnowing process is prose. Dave has said that if the story has too many obvious errors in prose, the story will get a quick reject. I'm guessing that another 1000 entries contain poor prose. So now we're down to 2000. I think this is where he starts to dig into the actual stories, reading more than the first page or two. At this point, many stories get rejected because the trope is not original or interesting or unique. Dave has said that he favors originality more than any other factor, meaning a well-executed unoriginal story will get a reject, whereas an original story, poorly executed, might earn an HM. Either way, we're now down to 1000 entries, or perhaps much less, which would only be about 10 or 11 stories a day, which is totally do-able. At this point, if he enjoys your story and reads it the whole way through, he'll put it in the HM or higher pile. He's looking for stories with an original trope, professional prose, a strong hook, a vivid setting, fully-realized and engaging characters, a plot with a story arc (try-fail cycles), a satisfying ending, and of course a theme and emotions and all that jazz. Not a lot of stories have all that, and I'm guessing that as a contest judge and professional reader, he's gotten pretty good at sifting the wheat from the chaffe. Only a 100-200 stories each quarter reach this level. HMs are flawed in one or more of the above areas, but are considered sellable stories. SHMs were great stories that were edged out by the best stories, which earn Semi's or become a finalist and win! So, don't be discouraged by the numbers, as in some ways, they are deceiving. Just right your best story, polish it up and try to get into that pool of stories that Dave has to choose from each quarter.

So, that's my understanding of how it all works. I still wonder, though, if slush readers might be a good idea as each quarter, some pretty heavy hitters report rejections, and I wonder if their stories got a fair chance or not. I'm guessing, they probably did. Dave is the most experienced judge this contest has had. There've only been three: Algis Budrys, KD Wentwork, and David Farland, and Dave's done it longer than the other two.

disgruntledpeony wrote:Honestly? Mine is growing rather than shrinking. I keep realizing there are things I've left out that need to be in there so that the story can make sense. I keep trying to write shorter stories for WotF, but somehow my last few stories have always ended up in the 7k range. The only story I've written that was under 3k got submitted to Flame Tree Publishing first, and that one sold before I could submit it here. Funnily enough, it featured the same protagonist as my finalist for Q3. (I've heard back, by the way. I didn't end up winning. That's alright, though. I'm sure the stories that did were excellent.)

I tend to imagine that is what I am doing, adding important details, it's why my stories end up in the 9K-10K range. People on this forum tell me I need to cut a lot of it, too much world building haha. I am doing my best to take that advice to heart. I want to get down below the 7K range like you.

That's awesome that you sold a story! I am considering sending my HM manuscript in as soon as I figure out a place to send it to.

I am sorry you didn't get a win, Q4 might be the one! I want people from the forums to win, everyone here has been so helpful and kind.

amyhg wrote:Just curious. What happens when WOTF just gets too big for Dave to handle the load? Will they get a second "gate keeper"? Does he actually have slush readers or does he really glance at every single story? I can imagine that working in the past, but with the competition gaining popularity at such an incredible rate, I can't imagine it can continue.

WIth 4000 submissions per quarter, David would have to read about 43 stories each and every day. Obviously, that's not possible, so how does he do it? The answer: he doesn't! He does not read every story all the way through. He starts with the first page or two. If there is no speculative element apparent, the story gets a reject. He has said that he gets many entries that are not speculative, and in fact, many are lists, recipes, poems or mainstream stories

If you've read a lot of slush, you get really good at weeding out the no's.

And if folks are going to do him the favor of not having a kick ass first page, they've made his job easier because if you haven't made your opening shine, then the rest of your story isn't shining.

It's rare that you have a story that the opening bites but the rest of the story is great. (Unless you're still working on it and haven't submitted yet! Hah).

amyhg wrote:Just curious. What happens when WOTF just gets too big for Dave to handle the load? Will they get a second "gate keeper"? Does he actually have slush readers or does he really glance at every single story? I can imagine that working in the past, but with the competition gaining popularity at such an incredible rate, I can't imagine it can continue.

WIth 4000 submissions per quarter, David would have to read about 43 stories each and every day. Obviously, that's not possible, so how does he do it? The answer: he doesn't! He does not read every story all the way through. He starts with the first page or two. If there is no speculative element apparent, the story gets a reject. He has said that he gets many entries that are not speculative, and in fact, many are lists, recipes, poems or mainstream stories

If you've read a lot of slush, you get really good at weeding out the no's.

And if folks are going to do him the favor of not having a kick ass first page, they've made his job easier because if you haven't made your opening shine, then the rest of your story isn't shining.

It's rare that you have a story that the opening bites but the rest of the story is great. (Unless you're still working on it and haven't submitted yet! Hah).

Yeah, I don't think many people realize how fast the process is. You can tell in the first couple of sentences whether the person can write--and by write, I mean professionally, which is all the contest is looking for. After that, the questions become: Do I have to read this? Could this be a winner? Might take another page, maybe two. You then go into the pan that will later be sifted for gold.

Well I know I'm not going to make it this quarter. Too many unexpected health problems that I'm still trying to deal with. Didn't even have the time or energy to write these last few months. Hopefully I can get back on track for the next quarter. It's a whole new year with 4 new chances to make it to the workshop!