A Warning To All ATS Members

Jesus what a depressing thread! The doom and gloom lately just kills me. I just finished the book "Patriot," which was written by an insane
survivalist that also predicted this same situation. It was basically a 400 page gun advertisement and how we'll all be bartering with spare ammo
within the next few years. Sorry not all of us can spend a month tracking down an AR-15 or the inflated panic prices they are putting on such
firearms.

I have faith that this country will pull through this. Yes, some heads will roll. Sure they'll be some protests about something or other but I think
we'll do just fine. Not being ignorant, just pointing out that there are currentlty no storm troopers walking up the street demanding my first
born.

But much like Benjamin from Lost... "I always have a plan."

There is a closet in the house full of ammo, water, and food. Think of it as an expanded bug out kit. If the SHTF, then me and the wife will be able
to sustain. But in the end I have faith that this country will endure.

Hell i'm going to be unemployed by the end of the year (my company is relocating and I refuse to live with a bunch of midwestern mouth breathers) and
I STILL remain positive. Keep smiling folks, things could be much much worse. People are still ordering PPV's, people are still buying crap on Ebay,
people are still sitting in rush hour traffic. I miss the threads about Texas sized meteors headed towards earth or Jim Marr's latest book about how
Obama is a tan Hitler and Clinton is a reptilian from the Hallow moon of Uranus...

It looks like recovery is working.
Interest rates are rising for mortgages, indicating demand is up, indicating housing is selling again. That was a principal cause of the problem.
Look at the graph at www.bankrate.com.
The stock markets of the world are showing stability, compared to 5 months ago. Look at the world graphs at
www.allstocks.com... These reflect a confidence worldwide.
Political upheaval has stabilized in Britain, the US, China, Japan, and other industrialized G* countries. Russia and Ukraine seem to be getting
along a little better.
Personally, I'm making money again, and probably will have a lower mortgage. I see that as a positive.
The problem with the world was a lack of money. More and more people have been born and the money supply has not kept up. It's similar to the Great
Depression, when Hoover would not put more money into the monetary supply to solve the problem...hoping it would all work out under the basic rules of
capitalism (same thing the GOP thinks today). In fact, by rapidly increasing the money supply, we have solved the problem. Here's how you can know
this is true: When the Federal Reserve wants to control inflation, they raise interest rates. When they want to control deflation, they lower
interest rates. When they want to stimulate the economy, they lower interest rates. Well, folks, that finally didn't work because there wasn't
enough money. The Fed was unable to change the deflation rate, even if they bottomed out the interest rates to .25%, which, when coupled with the
deflation occurring, was effectively saying ".25% minus 3% equals minus 2.75% interest." So, the Fed Reserv literally was paying the banks to take
the money, and it still had no effect. More money had to be created to create inflation. So, they began with a small amount, less than a trillion.
They threw it into the economy as a stimulus. Nothing happened. Normally, when you flood an economy with money, you have inflation. So, everyone
was surprised that 768 billion dollars had no effect. It was barely filling the holes of a leaking economy bucket, while the economy kept declining.
More money was then thrown into the bucket to fill the holes, another trillion or two, with no inflation effect. Folks, this is a sure sign you do
not have enough money in the economic bucket for society to function. The money was thrown into the economy to replace the digital money that had
disappeared due to the failure of so many financial institutions. Now, today, you are seeing the typical 9 month delay begin to take effect, and the
original stimulus beginning to affect growth, jobs, inflation, interest rates, etc. Feel good. Our government has done the right thing. The money
is now in the economy again and having the desired effect. Your mortgages have been supported, your banks can lend money again, you can get a credit
card, your job is coming back because businesses are getting credit and loans, and so forth. It takes time to rebuild the confidence that was lost
inside the financial institutions. It's been a forest fire to them. It is coming back, bright days are just ahead, and you will be able to unload,
eat, and relax again. Really. It worked. We did not make the same mistake made by Hoover. We did not let the system fail. We rescued the system
the only way it could happen. The system bled value, the government did the transfusion necessary to save the patient. The transfusion is still in
progress. You guys out of work---- start getting jobs. They may be a little different, but get going on those interviews. I had a good job, too,
but it reduced by 1/2 so I got a second 1/2 job and that made a whole job, so to speak. Now, both are picking up and I'm making money. I had to
retrain a little, but what the heck. Variety is the spice of life, right? Have some fun in your new job. Meet some new people, have some parties,
whatever.... that's what I'm doing. If you are sitting back waiting to be rescued, that didn't work even when the economy was good, right?

Tentickles I understand your alarm and although as a non US citizen it is not my debate, in a sense every citizen of the globe is touched by events in
USA.

I live in a country where every citizen has free health care, cheap medicine and if we lose our jobs we do not lose our homes and do not end up hungry
on the streets.

We do not live in a communist country. We have elections every three years and currently we just got a right wing conservative government.

What I am trying to say is USA is suffering from a self inflicted injury and for too long been writing cheques which it cannot honour. If your brother
or your sister was writing cheques like that or running up credit card debts which they could never pay back would you tell them to solve it by
writing another cheque ?

...or would you take their cheque book off them and cut up their credit cards until they learn to spend responsibly ?

The economic collapse began nine months ago, in September 2008. The Bush and Obama Administrations have since racked up $12.2 trillion in commitments
and spent $2.5 trillion on bailouts: AIG, Bank of America, Bear Stearns, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, TARP, purchases of debt and derivatives issued by
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, discounted overnight lending to banks, purchases of toxic commercial paper, and all manner of other high-flying fiscal
shenanigans that you paid for when you could least afford it.

The total value of all home mortgages in the US in 2008 was 10.5 trillion (mwhodges.home.att.net...). Why
didn't they pay off all of our mortgages instead? That would have been a three-fer: the banks would have gotten paid, consumer spending wouldn't
have fallen off a cliff, and government would have restored some of the faith lost after Katrina. Can you imagine how much money would have been
freed up for spending if nobody had a mortgage payment anymore?

The rich bankers are raping and pillaging and there's nobody in Washington (Ron Paul excluded) looking out for the people. The people need to band
together and go on strike and not make any tax or mortgage payments to banks or the government until we get our 12.2 trillion dollars back.

Seeing the Iranians in the streets makes me wonder how long it will be until we are doing the same. Not too much longer, I feel.

Originally posted by linux2216
Why didn't they pay off all of our mortgages instead?

Why? Because I don't own a home any longer, I don't have a mortgage any longer, I don't have ANY debt ... and if they, the government, used my tax
dollars to give you a free home, while I didn't get a free home, I'd be the first to burn yours into the ground!!! Is THAT a good enough reason
for ya?

Typical expected American thought, no offense intended. I mean, if that guy gets help in order to save millions of people, why didn't I get help?
I'm going to pout about it now!

I've seen this coming for awhile, I've been lurking forever. I just find it so consuming the amount of ignorant people in the world that refuse to
face facts and would rather look towards the noexistent positives.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
Typical expected American thought, no offense intended. I mean, if that guy gets help in order to save millions of people, why didn't I get help?
I'm going to pout about it now!

It's worse than that. The issue is more like: why should I be enslaved so someone else can get a free home .. and I have to pay for it while I
don't get a free home! Hey, you pay for your own darn life and lifestyle, and I'll pay for mine! That's the moral way!

Hey, have you heard of this saying: God helps those that help themselves! Sure, we need to help the legitimately handicapped, the elderly, but
damned if I'm going to pay for some other dudes castle or whatever. I'd rather be dirt poor and homeless living FREE on the streets than be used
and abused and enslaved for the benefit of others. I'm nobodies freaking slave. If the socialist can't make socialism work without me, then your
ideals are already doomed for failure!

Leave me out of all that! The ONLY valid excuse in my book for anyone to hold their hand out for help
are those with no hands! Socialism is IMMORAL, it's slavery! You take care of your butt and I'll take care of mine! That's called acting morally
and with self-responsibility, and that's the way I want to live!

40% of the existing home loans are still ARM's and the next hit to the financial market is going to be the commercial real estate bomb then the
derivatives will blow up and no one anywhere will be able to recover. That is including many in the EU because your greedy bankers believed our greedy
bankers and invested in the market here. In my little town alone in the last month 6 major car companies are gone. the real estate they sat on is
leased and the holding companies that have the land leveraged are going under and NOT paying the taxes on it. We have half our manufacturing parks
empty with no companies even considering moving here to set up. The bottom is coming strraight up at us and we're looking te other way. If you are
lucky enough to have money to save and invest, put 20 percent in precious metals and the rest in 3 and 6 month treasuries so you can still make money
but not get locked in for long term notes!
Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
the real estate they sat on is leased and the holding companies that have the land leveraged are going under and NOT paying the taxes on it.

When municipalities need that cash, they will be forcing those properties into auctions. There will be some good deals to be had by those that have
saved up some $$$ and are prepared to jump on these deals.

If you are lucky enough to have money to save and invest, put 20 percent in precious metals and the rest in 3 and 6 month treasuries so you can
still make money but not get locked in for long term notes!

I can't say treasuries are a good idea, but you could get longer term notes with better interest rates and still use them as collateral for a
temporary loan until such time they mature.

CNN is reporting at this very moment that homeless shelters in cities across the US are turning away families because they are over flowing. People
are sleeping in tents, cars and whatever else.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by warrenb]

You do realize that the banks own the houses if the mortages go bad...if a large enough majority of the mortgages default, they will probably begin to
turn a blind eye. Think, what would they rather have, a house that they can't sell, or a customer who will eventually pay? Just because we are in a
financial fallout doesn't mean we will all be living in tents. Also the CNN story is probably overexaggerated, because homeless shelters in cities
like San Fracisco ALWAYS turn away some people because they overflow. It's like the Oprah story on tent cities, when really that "city" had been
there for like 12 years. Media manipulation to push socialism. You know the saying "a man who gives up essential liberties for security, deserves
neither" applies to economic security as well.

The reason I say short term notes is due to deflation or stagflation. Long term you loose intrinsic value over the term of the notes. As far as
municipalities auctioning off property goes. In an depressed area where jobs are non- existant in the forseeable future, who in their right mind
invests in property to pay taxes on with no probable profitable outcome. The buildings decay and eventually are worthless. They are already trying to
get legislation to bulldoze whole sections of major cities.
Zindo

Good post and likely true, but no one wants to hear that on here or in the majority of the country. Honestly IMO people like the 'drama' and the
'doom and gloom' predictions on, if nothing else a subconscious level. But I agree with you it is very likely getting better. The talk of a 'global
collapse next week' has always been around and will amount to nothing. While I did believe for a minute that possibly the institution of a North
American Union or global government was the only way out for all these countries it seems less likely now, at least in this aspect and time frame.

I suspect we are very likely to see a "sucker's rally" over the next little while, followed by what could be an even worse crash.

A "sucker's rally" is what you get when everyone is feeling better about the way things are and assume they can carry on with business as usual,
only to find that the root cause of the original problem has not been addressed.

Though buyers are rushing in, rising interest rates, growing unemployment and a likely new wave of foreclosures signal that problems in the sector are
far from over

This downturn presented us with many opportunities, yet we decided not to take them and instead dump large amounts of money on the problem, hoping
that maybe doing the same things over and over will result in different results. I believe someone once called that the definition of insanity.

Now we are looking at a Federal Reserve with increased power, where it should have been dismantled. Debt has grown in almost every nation. The world
food crisis looms larger despite being overshadowed in the media. How can we possibly expect to be doing better?

If we are unwilling to dace the facts that there are some fundamental problems in our system that need to be addressed, we will blindly march over the
same cliff again and again until we are unable to pull ourselves up anymore.

Just because we've started bailing, doesn't mean the boat isn't sinking.

Thats exactly what happened in 1929. A 'Sucker Rally' in the last three days before the big crash caused by a false report of easy profit! Your
right. I believe the 'Sucker Rally' started already and in two months from now the DOW will be at less than 50% of what it is now!
Zindo

The World Bank said Monday that the global economy would shrink 2.9 per cent in 2009 – the first contraction since the Second World War.
That's a sharper decline than the Washington-based development bank's earlier forecast of a 1.7-per-cent drop. The bank also warned the economy will
grow only 2 per cent next year.

This report is the primary reason the markets took a kick in the happy sacks today.

Again, I must ask the question; "what have we fixed"?

Why do so many people seem to believe that a broken system can just carry on without major overhauls? Seriously, when your car breaks down, do you
just expect it to start working again because it's inconvenient for it not to?

Don't worry. The jobless folks will be in demand when the draft starts up. And the FEMA detention centers will be put to good use when draft dodgers
and protesters do their dodging and protesting thing.

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