I live in Ohio, I voted against the ban the first time and I'll do it again.

Even out here in the red'est part of the state where Romney got upwards of 70% of the vote, marriage equality has a decent amount of support. I can imagine that if it were put to a vote, it would be allowed.

ampoliros:I live in Ohio, I voted against the ban the first time and I'll do it again.

Even out here in the red'est part of the state where Romney got upwards of 70% of the vote, marriage equality has a decent amount of support. I can imagine that if it were put to a vote, it would be allowed.

Oh, and the biggest reason I can tell it would pass? I'm seeing openly gay couples now all over the place. At the gas station, grocery store, and everywhere else. Five years ago they would get stares and maybe a few snickers from teenagers. Now even the old people don't give them a second look.

Arguing that traditional marriage is also best for children, Cochran said he subscribes to the writer G.K. Chesterton's philosophy of "the Democracy of the Dead."

"It's the idea that the vast majority of our ancestors tried and experimented with different ideas, and they came up with what works best," he said. "The traditional concept of one man, one woman is what works best."

Arguing that traditional marriage is also best for children, Cochran said he subscribes to the writer G.K. Chesterton's philosophy of "the Democracy of the Dead."

"It's the idea that the vast majority of our ancestors tried and experimented with different ideas, and they came up with what works best," he said. "The traditional concept of one man, one woman is what works best."

Arguing that traditional marriage is also best for children, Cochran said he subscribes to the writer G.K. Chesterton's philosophy of "the Democracy of the Dead."

"It's the idea that the vast majority of our ancestors tried and experimented with different ideas, and they came up with what works best," he said. "The traditional concept of one man, one woman is what works best."

A perfect description of conservatism. No need to think, because our ancestors already solved all problems.

Arguing that traditional marriage is also best for children, Cochran said he subscribes to the writer G.K. Chesterton's philosophy of "the Democracy of the Dead."

"It's the idea that the vast majority of our ancestors tried and experimented with different ideas, and they came up with what works best," he said. "The traditional concept of one man, one woman is what works best."

"Grog f*ck tree for months and still no children.""No more f*ck tree, Grog. Go f*ck dog and see if make children."

Arguing that traditional marriage is also best for children, Cochran said he subscribes to the writer G.K. Chesterton's philosophy of "the Democracy of the Dead."

"It's the idea that the vast majority of our ancestors tried and experimented with different ideas, and they came up with what works best," he said. "The traditional concept of one man, one woman is what works best."

A perfect description of conservatism. No need to think, because our ancestors already solved all problems.

Tradition is the worst argument to use in defense of something.

Just because a practice has been followed as tradition tells us nothing of its virtue.

It also doesn't cover the fact that tradition is like saying "because we've always done it".

Aah, the old Appeal to Tradition, the last resort of people that are coming to realize that public opinion is shifting away from them, and that facts, logic, human decency, and fairness are not on their side, but damn it they don't want to change anything.

Our ancestors did it, so it must be right. You know, like bloodletting, slavery, women as property, segregation, alchemy...people used the same argument in favor of all those things and against reality. They eventually came around (well honestly many haven't but they know you can't openly advocate for those things anymore) and they will be dragged, kicking and screaming, across this threshold too.

WI241TH:Tyrone Slothrop: A perfect description of conservatism. No need to think, because our ancestors already solved all problems.

And yet, even our ancestors knew this was a stupid idea.[i.imgur.com image 370x582]From the Jefferson Memorial

A sentiment that conservative intelligentsia dismisses as "utopianism." Something deeply changed in this nation with the election of Reagan. American exceptionalism prior was an aspiration, afterword it became an excuse for lazy entitlement.

theknuckler_33:"On no other issue in America is the polling data is so wrong," he said. "The real polls are when people go to the polls and vote."

And, as we all know, nothing has changed in the last 10 years. NOTHING! LALALALALALALALALALA!!!

Indeed.

Ohio is a median US state -- enough so it can be used pretty accurately as a proxy for the nation as a whole, and vice-versa. (This is one reason why it's a fairly tight swing state in close presidential elections.) When "In 2004, Ohioans approved a constitutional ban on gay marriage by 62 percent", the ratio of "oppose" to "support" for gay marriage legalization (including "strongly" on both, excluding "neither" and miscelaneous responses) from the US General Social Survey was 64% to 36% -- about the expected result.

As of 2012, oppose to support is nationally now 44% to 56%, and continues trending increasing support. Ergo, if a clearly-worded amendment supporting gay marriage gets past the Ohio legislature (which is GOP dominated, so not likely any time soon) or gets the circa 0.4M signatures for triggering Amendment by direct referendum (not impossible, but color me skeptical), it will likely be approved by the voters.

In contrast, despite Buress citing "North Carolina, where polls showed an even split on gay marriage, but a vote to legalize it went down to a sizable defeat", the polling for North Carolina indicated that the ban was supported 55-39; the actual vote turned out 61-39 -- undecideds all breaking against. Using that on the GSS-2012 indicates 52-48 oppose-vs-support, so Ohio might narrowly reject it... if the ballot is attempted before 2014. The attitudes have been shifting by about 1% each year. It's pretty much just a matter of waiting for enough funerals to go by.

Arguing that traditional marriage is also best for children, Cochran said he subscribes to the writer G.K. Chesterton's philosophy of "the Democracy of the Dead."

"It's the idea that the vast majority of our ancestors tried and experimented with different ideas, and they came up with what works best," he said. "The traditional concept of one man, one woman is what works best."

Appeal to antiquity: I'm curious if he can point to where gay marriage was tried and ultimately rejected as an example of a lesson learned by our ancestors. Bonus points if he says Sodom and Gomorrah.

"Them putting the issue on the ballot does not concern us. What they'll do is guarantee that John Kasich gets re-elected."

Yeah, because Kasich is so beloved now after raising taxes on the poor, cutting taxes on the rich, lowering aid to poor families, and cutting off aid for birth control while also getting rid of abortion in Ohio. It might play well out in the sticks with the Bible Bumpkins, but he's doomed unless the Democrats come up with a child murderer to run against him.

I'm not proud to admit this, but I support gay marriage almost entirely because I enjoy the histrionics by the people who oppose gay marriage. Every time another state flips, these people lose their minds about the end of the world. It's hilarious to watch. Equal rights are great and all, but it's my inner troll that loves this the most.

The people who want to enshrine "God's Law" into man's law and ban gay marriage are often the first to complain when we try to enshrine "God's Law" into man's law regarding charity. Jesus spoke far more about helping the poor than he did about any kind of sexual morality. If these people really wanted the law to reflect God's will, they would be campaigning ten times harder for the welfare state than for equal marriage bans.

abb3w:theknuckler_33: "On no other issue in America is the polling data is so wrong," he said. "The real polls are when people go to the polls and vote."

And, as we all know, nothing has changed in the last 10 years. NOTHING! LALALALALALALALALALA!!!

Indeed.

Ohio is a median US state -- enough so it can be used pretty accurately as a proxy for the nation as a whole, and vice-versa. (This is one reason why it's a fairly tight swing state in close presidential elections.) When "In 2004, Ohioans approved a constitutional ban on gay marriage by 62 percent", the ratio of "oppose" to "support" for gay marriage legalization (including "strongly" on both, excluding "neither" and miscelaneous responses) from the US General Social Survey was 64% to 36% -- about the expected result.

As of 2012, oppose to support is nationally now 44% to 56%, and continues trending increasing support. Ergo, if a clearly-worded amendment supporting gay marriage gets past the Ohio legislature (which is GOP dominated, so not likely any time soon) or gets the circa 0.4M signatures for triggering Amendment by direct referendum (not impossible, but color me skeptical), it will likely be approved by the voters.

In contrast, despite Buress citing "North Carolina, where polls showed an even split on gay marriage, but a vote to legalize it went down to a sizable defeat", the polling for North Carolina indicated that the ban was supported 55-39; the actual vote turned out 61-39 -- undecideds all breaking against. Using that on the GSS-2012 indicates 52-48 oppose-vs-support, so Ohio might narrowly reject it... if the ballot is attempted before 2014. The attitudes have been shifting by about 1% each year. It's pretty much just a matter of waiting for enough funerals to go by.

[a.imageshack.us image 850x575][carryabigsticker.com image 449x533]

I would suggest that 2016 may be a safer year for such an amendment. I am skeptical of the possible success of such a measure in a midterm election.

I'm not proud to admit this, but I support gay marriage almost entirely because I enjoy the histrionics by the people who oppose gay marriage. Every time another state flips, these people lose their minds about the end of the world. It's hilarious to watch. Equal rights are great and all, but it's my inner troll that loves this the most.

Political trolling is a proud and storied American tradition, going all the way back to John Hancock's supersized signature on the Declaration of Independence.

G. Tarrant:Our ancestors did it, so it must be right. You know, like bloodletting, slavery, women as property, segregation, alchemy...people used the same argument in favor of all those things and against reality.

There are way more "moderate" Ohioans than most think. They just don't scream as much about this social conservative bullshiat. Frankly, I don't think most people give a shiat. They're more concerned about their sales taxes going through the roof and the economy.

We're a purple state for a reason and despite all it's done, the Ohio GOP really hasn't had that much success.

cameroncrazy1984:Dimensio: I would suggest that 2016 may be a safer year for such an amendment. I am skeptical of the possible success of such a measure in a midterm election.

The very unpopular governor is also up for re-election in 2014.

Um, as of June, Kasich was polling at 54%, and his numbers were on the rise. Personally, I hate that bastard, but the people in my corner of Ohio see him as the Savior. It seems like a lot of other folks in Ohio do, too, according to June's polls.

DeaH:cameroncrazy1984: Dimensio: I would suggest that 2016 may be a safer year for such an amendment. I am skeptical of the possible success of such a measure in a midterm election.

The very unpopular governor is also up for re-election in 2014.

Um, as of June, Kasich was polling at 54%, and his numbers were on the rise. Personally, I hate that bastard, but the people in my corner of Ohio see him as the Savior. It seems like a lot of other folks in Ohio do, too, according to June's polls.

Really? That's sad. They must have forgotten about all the crap he lost last year.

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist:What's interesting about that article is that the pastor all but admits that churches in Ohio are networking and canvassing for the express purpose of electing John Kasich and stopping gay marriage.

And thanks to all the false outrage over the fake IRS scandal - the churches will never be penalized.