KobayashiRiku wrote:Honestly though, I agree, I think it is very important to realize that in many ways, Gendou is for all intents and purposes Shinji as an adult. If you gave Shinji similar motives, would he act the same way? Give the boy a singular focus, a goal in the same vein as his father, and see how he reacts. Personally because of Shinji's personality we never do get a proper gauge on how intelligent he is, just that he doesn't really apply himself to anything, except EVA, which he does for praise. As a parent of a child who is intelligent but not particularly motivated, I can tell you that, from a real world example, it can be difficult to show others the intellectual capabilities of an individual.

Well, in my own fanfic, it's how I've written Gendo. It seems to work, at least as long as you have a tragic backstory for him, not dissimilar to Shinji's but messed up enough to warrant similar, over the top responses.

Shinji, just like Asuka, or Rei, is intelligent for sure. However, he's been belittled all his life, and abandoned by his father, which causes him to retreat inwards and not apply himself to anything other than the cello (which he is very good at and gets praise for), and as you said, the EVA. He doesn't get praised for his grades, so he neglects them because they won't get him any attention.

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

KobayashiRiku wrote:he doesn't really apply himself to anything, except EVA, which he does for praise.

Actually, Shinji applies himself to domestic matters, especially cooking - and not, as far as I can see, for praise. He does it for his own health and comfort because he can't bear to live in as slovenly a way as Misato, and this is an instance of his showing some sense of valuing himself, at least in the earlier part of the show. [Edited to add:] Also, he doesn't play the cello for praise (he would be less discreet about it if that were the case). He says he was never told to stop; but he could stop if it gave him displeasure, so to that extent he is at least content to do it, which also shows a modicum of self-value.

As for Gendō being an adult Shinji, that's never sat quite right with me - they may both be avoidant, but Shinji never comes over to me as having as cold and calculating a veneer as Gendō.

Last edited by pwhodges on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pwhodges wrote:As for Gendō being an adult Shinji, that's never sat quite right with me - they may both be avoidant, but Shinji never comes over to me as having as cold and calculating a veneer as Gendō.

Well, Shinji may have lost his mother, but he wasn't nearly as affected by it as Gendo was. Didn't Fuyutsuki explain that Gendo was different after Yui was absorbed? Shinji changed after killing Kaworu and tanged everyone because he was angry at the world, however, if he sat with that anger for 14-odd years, perhaps he would have the same issues his father does and become that cold and calculating person. If Misato & Asuka could turn like that after years of resentment, so could Shinji if he was given the time to do so.

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

pwhodges wrote:Actually, Shinji applies himself to domestic matters, especially cooking - and not, as far as I can see, for praise. ... Also, he doesn't play the cello for praise

(Quote Edited to address specific points)

Both good points, and ones that I failed to take into consideration when composing my post. Though a far as domestic matters go, I do wonder if he does it out of necessity? Also, I'm open to considering the possibility that domestic duties and his cello playing are simply habitual from before the beginning of the series, as we get relatively few details about the pre-EP 1 background of the characters. I haven't read the manga as of yet so perhaps there are minor details there I've missed. When all is said and done, we have no way of knowing if he was assigned domestic duties while living with his teacher/distant relations, so the best we can go off of is conjecture. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or have missed something.

pwhodges wrote:As for Gendō being an adult Shinji, that's never sat quite right with me.

That could be seen as a matter of preference, such as my preference of LRS or LMS over LAS. OR it can genuinely be a matter of two different people interpreting the character differently. Which is good, because that variety of interpretations is what leads to many differnt fanfiction being different from each other. A wise man told me "Variety is the spice of life"

DarkBluePhoenix wrote:Well, in my own fanfic, it's how I've written Gendo. It seems to work, at least as long as you have a tragic backstory for him, not dissimilar to Shinji's but messed up enough to warrant similar, over the top responses.

Valid point, and one that isn't addressed too often, I believe that the Kotetsu no Girlfriend 2/Angelic Days manga explored this briefly in its fifth volume, however there is little else to work with as far as backstory for Gendou, other than what we get in the anime (and perhaps the manga, as I've said I haven't read it yet.)

DarkBluePhoenix wrote:Shinji, just like Asuka, or Rei, is intelligent for sure. ... He doesn't get praised for his grades, so he neglects them because they won't get him any attention.

I think this is a brilliant point to bring up. As a child grows, their development is influenced by a number of factors, including (or especially if you prefer) interaction with others, something that, from the few pieces of circumstantial evidence we're given throughout the series, Shinji seemingly lacked in his upbringing. Because we are given a rudimentary backstory for Shinji's life between Yui's disappearance and Gendou calling Shinji to Tokyo-3, the events of his upbrining between age 4 and age 14 is entirely conjecture, and that is most likely why when fanfiction author's choose to alter Shinji's personality for a work, the childhood is where they often make their changes.

DarkBluePhoenix wrote:Also, cool you're from Connecticut too.

That I am, the Manchester Area, PM me and we can collectively gripe about this hole of a state lol. Also, your Avatar is awesome and Wing Zero is definitely the best Gundam EVER.

KobayashiRiku wrote:I think this is a brilliant point to bring up. As a child grows, their development is influenced by a number of factors, including (or especially if you prefer) interaction with others, something that, from the few pieces of circumstantial evidence we're given throughout the series, Shinji seemingly lacked in his upbringing. Because we are given a rudimentary backstory for Shinji's life between Yui's disappearance and Gendou calling Shinji to Tokyo-3, the events of his upbrining between age 4 and age 14 is entirely conjecture, and that is most likely why when fanfiction author's choose to alter Shinji's personality for a work, the childhood is where they often make their changes.

You're absolutely right. After having read the manga (which you should, it's excellent), and when I started writing, I did change some aspects of Shinji's personality to fit the story I wanted to write in the long wrong. I gave him a violent temper, but a long fuse so he wouldn't just be like Asuka shouting all the time. Again, having to come up with much of his backstory (or at least the minutiae of his upbringing) was the difficult part, but you get much more in tune with the character that way. I always assumed that Shinji's upbringing was lacking in full emotional support, stunting his emotional growth. I would also assume he was bullied at some point because of his reaction to getting hit by Toji. He wasn't hurt by it, meaning he's gotten a tolerance to it. Not unlike his father, like we see in Fuyutsuki's flashbacks to when he first met Gendo.

KobayashiRiku wrote:That I am, the Manchester Area, PM me and we can collectively gripe about this hole of a state lol. Also, your Avatar is awesome and Wing Zero is definitely the best Gundam EVER.

Lol, hole of a state is right on the money, or the lack thereof ":wink:. And yes, Wing Zero is the best of the Gundams.

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

I prefer the original configuration to the Endless Waltz Custom model, the Angel Wings always seemed to be a little much to me, I liked the purely mechanical version from the tv series proper. But to each their own.

KobayashiRiku wrote:Just started reading this, looks good so far, Bonus points for starting so long before the series begins to add backstory.

Well, I never liked that the adults have so little backstory, Gendo included. Thank god for that flashback episode where we at least get to meet some of them, it at least gave me somewhere to start. I don't know how many fics exist where the adults get some serious character building, even if there are a lot, there should be more, those are the characters that need delving into for sure. Or at least a fic detailing Gendo and Yui's lives from college (where they meet) till her absorption into Unit-01.

I won't deny the angel wings are overkill and seem slightly impractical. Perhaps this looks better, because shields are far more practical.

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

Using Gendo as an adult Shinji can be an interesting dynamic to force Shinji to see what he could become if he doesn't get his shit together, which is why I like comparing the two in that way. Shinji ha time to change and be less of a moron, while Gendo is basically doomed to keep fucking up whenever he does something. Basically the trope of not turning your parents being a bad thing.

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

Kendrix wrote:That said the plot of a given fanfic often necessitates that he be the antagonists because his canonical goals run very much contrary to those of most main characters. He's not a nice person either and that would be even more inaccurate.

Not really. His goal, to avoid instrumentality and extinction, aligns with the main characters perfectly. Technically speaking he's on the side of the "good guys", it's just that he takes 'evil' steps to get there.

I think he works well as a mysterious, ominous villain, but I also think he works as a Shinji-like character, doing what he believes is right despite the possible consequences. However, I think that the villain side of him was overdone during the series. His speech during Instrumentality during End of Evangelion felt like it came out of nowhere. Sure, we saw him rescue Rei, and we also see a more human side of him during Weaving a Story, but there wasn't a ton of characterization for him. Even more minor characters like Hikari, Toji, or Maya got more character development than Shinji. I certainly think his character was done better in Sadamoto's version of the story. He feels much more human in Sadamoto's rework of the narrative, and I think

SPOILER: Show

Gendo saving Shinji from the JSSDF soldiers during the raid instead of Misato doing so

was a great addition, and is one of the things Sadamoto's End of Evangelion did better in my opinion.

I've reached a point where I just generally don't give a fuck anymore. In a good way.

You think the villain side was overdone in the SERIES but that Sadamoto's is an improvement? This is the same Sadamoto!Gendo who:

1) HATES Shinji, and will gladly tell his son this, right to the kid's face, in a way outing him as not just a manipulative asshole but an abusive one too. 2) Still has every expectation that Shinji will do Eva stuff right after being told his dad hates him.3) Hates his son for reasons as laughably "I never developed beyond the mental age of six" as being jealous of the attention Shinji gets from his own mother. This is a grown man who decided to reproduce with his wife, let his wife do most of the rearing, and then inexplicably get mad at the kid for being a dependent who needs to be taken care of. Meantime, the wife who is responsible for giving Shinji the attention Gendo's so jealous of is completely without fault and gets to be worshipped unconditionally. Clearly at the cost of acknowledging her own autonomy in any real way, though.4) Treats Yui as something to which he's entitled. Blames "God" for wrongly taking her away. (Why the fuck is Gendo a maltheist??) 5) Actively seduces Ritsuko for... reasons? (In NGE, Ritsuko was clearly attracted to him from an early point and moved in after Naoko died.)6) Kills Kaji himself in place of an anonymous henchman for... reasons?? (EDIT: Forgot to mention Gendo is also a terrible shot, so not only does Sadamoto make him kill Kaji, he makes him kill Kaji sloppily.)7) Likes to strike a villainous pose and leer evilly before swallowing embryos whole.

Anno!Gendo is left an ambiguous figure acting as a case study in how much the Hedgehog's Dilemma can twist someone, whereas Sadamoto actively paints Gendo loud and clear as a total douchebag. And despite this, Anno's Gendo gets no onscreen redemption, no tidy character resolution, just a violent punishment that he seems to be perfectly okay with. Meantime, Sadamoto has Yui remind Gendo that babies are cute and this somehow makes Gendo cry his way to a maudlin and hamfisted redemption. Gendo is later shown to have gotten everything he wants. Lesson of the story: being a selfish, entitled asshole will make your dreams come true as long so long as you're JUST human enough to cry in front of your wife when dramatically appropriate.

The Sadamoto version is helluva more villainous, oftentimes cartoonishly so.

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