I'd rather stab myself in the eye than treat my mother so poorly. You aren't even willing to buy her lunch after she hauls your entitled ass to Hawaii? Woooooow. Just, wow.

ETF broken quotes again

So much this. Your 'reasonable' is not very reasonable at all. It's both reasonable and polite to host the witness(es) of your marriage and it's not reasonable to freaking mooch off your mother for a damn vacation. It's one thing to be cheap, but it's hypocritical to expect someone else to spend their money on you with nary a thought of reciprocating especially when you have the money.

Quick question for anyone who has ever done it because after a little research, I am now super confused. Partner and I had decided to sign the papers in the Oakland courthouse this October but my mother actually offered to take us to Honolulu as a wedding gift. Since we are going we decided to just get married while there. We will only be there for 4 days and needless to say, could not afford the trip on our own. I like the fact that the marriage license fee is only $65 in Honolulu (it is $96 here) but I am confused about the process. I just want to show up with my form, have an officiator say some brief words, be declared hitched and bounce to enjoy the trip (actually I could do without the words as well). I dont care about a ceremony being "too fast" or impersonal; I just want to get it done. It appears however that there is no one just at the courthouse to perform the marriage, that I actually need to find my own performer first or enlist the help of a third party wedding company? Is this REALLY true/necessary? We barely have any money and I dont want to spend another $150 for some stupid flowers and ambiance. Is it possible to just walk in, pay the $65, get it done, and have no other expenses incurred or does it have to be more complicated than that? Please advise. Thank you.

To answer your question: It looks like it has to be more complicated than that, as the $65 for a license alone will not make you and your FI married. You will need to arrange for someone to perform the marriage ceremony, and that will incur further cost. It is entirely possible that you could explain your desire for a minimal ceremony to a potential officiant and they might approve and cut you a deal. Your best bet is to get in contact with some choices you've made from the list of performers they have, and see what you can do.

Have some more wacky two cents! You post questions and crazy on an open forum, and by golly, you're going to get input! Whether you like it or not.

You might want to leave out the cray-cray stories, because I doubt a potential officiant is going to be interested in the all-over-the-place things you have to say about your funds or penchant for flying off the handle at internet people. Then again, maybe not. You can't hear people side-eyeing you over the phone which, in your case, is probably a good thing.

If you wanted very specific answers, then you should have posted on a local board, not an international one.

This is not a piece of paper. It is a legal document citing your marriage. Whether you want to look at it that way or not, you will be married when the ceremony in Hawaii is performed. You have already stated that you truly care for your partner and are getting married now for health insurance benefits because you don't think the government should have any say so in your commitment. Well, here's the thing: they do. If you don't think the government should have any legal holding in your relationship and commitment to each other, then don't take advantage of the benefits the GOVERNMENT provides to that "piece of paper". By doing so, you come of as a hypocrite to me.

How the hell am I committing fraud by marrying the person I love? What in the hell are you talking about? How is it fraud to get married at a convenient point in time? My partner has better health insurance than me, I have a chronic illness, and years ago we agreed that at some point we would get legally married so that they can be recognized as my next of kin and vice verse, along with tax benefits and other legal rights. What is fraudulent about that? We have made a commitment to each other, not to the state, but certain things are only recognized through the state. You are an idiot and an asshole. Just because I have different beliefs than you does not give you the right to sling ignorant slanderous accusations. I am a feminist and if you know anything about the history of marriage you would not be so willing to offer up your relationship to the government either, among other archaic demeaning rituals and symbolism. I dont even really feel comfortable being legally married when everyone is not allowed to do so so sorry yes, it is a piece of paper. Just because some people cant or are not allowed to or simply dont want to have a legal marriage does not change the feelings they have for each other or the life commitments they make. We've made a commitment to each other and personally I dont NEED a legal contract to validate that for me. The only reason I even stated why we are doing this in October is because someone, not a rude bigoted asshole, asked our reasoning in the thread previously and I answered that question because they asked politely. Enjoy being a narrow-minded DB.

LOLOLOLOLOL

So you are being incredibly hypocritical as well - because you think marriage is an archaic and shouldn't mean anything legally, yet you want to go through with the legal procedure to get the legal benefits?

Of course you don't need the government's sign off to make your relationship meaningful. But you do need it to get the benefits of marriage in this country. So either stick to your principles and figure out a way to get your own damn insurance, or suck it up and own that legal marriage has huge meaning (which, you know, might be a small reason why legal marriage is what a huge number of people are currently fighting for). Right now, you sound ridiculous.

What did you go to grad school for?

And holy shit. Seriously, even if you weren't getting married, take your mom out to lunch to say thanks for the Hawaii trip - a HUGE gift. Or are you seriously going act that entitled and immature on a gifted vacation?

Ok so, everybody needs to CALM DOWN. First off, my partner and I have a household income above $70,000 per year (Im not willing to go into more detail than that) but we also recently graduated from grad school and are trying to be frugal. There's a difference between being frugal and being cheap. Being unwilling to take your own mother out for lunch or dinner after she is paying to take you and your FI to Hawaii and paying for your marriage license or ceremony- forget which- is beyond being cheap. , to those who might question HI trip in light of frugality, my mother OFFERED to take us to HI with her for free as a GIFT, it was not my idea to go. I happened to be planning to get legally married in Oct, namely because my medical insurance expires in Nov. My partner and I do not feel that legal marriage is some mandatory requirement, but we would like to assist our taxes and also enjoy the rights and privileges associated with legal marriage. Other than that its not really a big deal... Uh huh. You are talking out of both sides of your ass, as my mother would say. I'm sure our homosexual friends would also love to assist their taxes, and enjoy the rights and privileges associated with legal marriage too. I'm sure they don't think as you two do, that marriage isn't a big deal. Sorry, but I think all of those medical, legal, tax, and other government rights and privileges are a Big Fucking Deal. hence my not wanting to spend more than $100 on it. I think it is stupid to have to pay that much money for a piece of paper to certify to the state that I am committed to someone, hence my not wanting to pay more than what I find reasonable for it (that is, less than $100) . Third, I only mentioned "stupid flowers and ambiance" because most of the posts on ANY site regarding marriage in HI I found unhelpful as they were typically about having huge ceremonies, paying several hundred dollars to have a small tourist company "setup" a quickie ceremony, or discussing how depressing the courthouse is. I asked a simple question in a straightforward manner because I wanted a direct and explicit answer. I cant believe how this post blew up over something so trivial, especially since most of you harping on my financial status seem unable to read (i.e. gift). I know the internet allows us to say whatever we want but damn, if you dont have an ACTUAL answer to the question keep it to yourself. And yes, my "partner" is a male but as a feminist I find that unnecessary to acknowledge typically. Shoutout to anyone who ACTUALLY contributed to my question, namely homechick who also lives in Oakland. PS HI marriage license is cheaper @$65 as opposed to Oakland @$96, so yes it is cheaper to do what I want to do in that state.

How the hell am I committing fraud by marrying the person I love? What in the hell are you talking about? How is it fraud to get married at a convenient point in time? My partner has better health insurance than me, I have a chronic illness, and years ago we agreed that at some point we would get legally married so that they can be recognized as my next of kin and vice verse, along with tax benefits and other legal rights. What is fraudulent about that? We have made a commitment to each other, not to the state, but certain things are only recognized through the state. Yes, such as the medical, tax, and next of kin rights you want. You are an idiot and an asshole. Classy! Just because I have different beliefs than you does not give you the right to sling ignorant slanderous accusations. I am a feminist and if you know anything about the history of marriage you would not be so willing to offer up your relationship to the government either, among other archaic demeaning rituals and symbolism. Congrats on your feminism? I don't understand what that has to do with you wanting to get married for certain rights and protections, but being resistant to the suggestions you take your mother out to lunch or dinner after she is kind enough to pay and GIFT you and your FI a trip to Hawaii and your marriage license or whatever. What archaic and demeaning rituals do you think we are participating in, in our own weddings? Arranged marriages against our wills for the political gain of our fathers and future husbands? Dowries being paid to our husbands? Our guests listening outside the bridal suite as we consummate our marriages? I dont even really feel comfortable being legally married when everyone is not allowed to do so so sorry yes, it is a piece of paper. Just because some people cant or are not allowed to or simply dont want to have a legal marriage does not change the feelings they have for each other or the life commitments they make. We've made a commitment to each other and personally I dont NEED a legal contract to validate that for me. But you NEED the legal contract to validate he medical, tax, next of kin, etc. rights and privileges that you want. The US government gives nonefucks about your feelings for each other. The only reason I even stated why we are doing this in October is because someone, not a rude bigoted asshole, asked our reasoning in the thread previously and I answered that question because they asked politely. Enjoy being a narrow-minded DB. Stay Classy!

"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."

So again, shows over folks. Everything is already booked and scheduled so no need for your unhelpful "tips" anymore. And for the record,

1. I do have my "own damn insurance" but being a teacher and my partner being a government employee means that theirs is substantially better. Having a chronic illness further substantiates the need to switch over to theirs, even if only in case of emergency, and this was my moms idea.

2. I got a dual BA from UC Berkeley, one in cultural anthropology focused on "othering" (i.e. gender, sexuality, ethnicity, ability, etc) and one in integrative biology in order to become a paleoanthropologist. During my time in school I built a strong affinity towards issues of social justice and so got an MA in education and teaching credential from USC. My thesis was on high needs schools and the retention of black and brown youth in the sciences. I decided to give back through teaching (and earn some money to handle student loan debt) for a few years before pursuing my doctorate. My partner got his MBA. Our student loan bills total $1400 per month, so no, extras are not in the carefully maintained budget I have devised

3. The examples given of marital rituals are silly at best. No, no one will be checking for the blood on your marital sheet but Id be willing to bet that the majority of you are going to be introduced as "Mr and Mrs *insert his full name". Even those who choose to keep their maiden names and hyphenate do not also request their spouses add their names and hyphenate as well. Some of you may even still have the word "obey" in your vows and in general marital vows reinforce the standard of refraining from gender neutral language. Language and actions are the last vestiges of the fight for social justice as most people tend to live blind and believe that -isms (i.e. racism, and to a lesser extent sexism) are no longer issues today. I could give more examples but I dont have all day.

4. Non-heterosexual couples who are fighting for the right to marry (at least the majority that I know) are not doing so just to get a marriage certificate or because heterosexual couples can and they cant. They are fighting to be able to legally marry so that they may enjoy the rights associated with recognition (i.e. being designated next of kin, visitation rights, legal and financial protection, insurance etc) which is the same reason I am doing it and why I have put it off in general. If marriage offered none of those benefits I highly doubt the fight would be as critical, which is also why many people reject civil unions, because they do not confer the same level of rights and protection and are not recognized universally. So no there is nothing fraudulent or hypocritical about that.

5. Yall dont know anything about my relationship with my mom so hush. I am privileged enough to have a mom that wanted me to achieve my dreams, something she was never able to do. My mom has a degree she doesnt want and makes a substantial amount of money at a job she hates so that I could go to school and thrive. If you actually read (which I know yall are wont to do) the lunch thing was initially an offhand joke but for real, my mom is paying for EVERY aspect of this trip because she wanted us to come, it was her idea, and it is a gift. She is also paying for her boyfriend to come and taking 4 people to lunch/dinner can easily be over $300. My mom would be appalled if I spent that kind of money on a meal for us as she would rather that I pay off my student loans and save and let her (who makes more money) take care of the indulgences. My mom knows that I am thankful for her and all she wants from me is to do well in life and dont let my sister have her when shes old. She is just like that, likes to buy/do things for me, probably because we both have had very difficult lives and she wants to make sure that mine is just a little bit better. Earlier this year she bought us a flat screen tv unsolicited and it was not a holiday of any kind, just bought it because thats how she does. I did not even want or intimate my desire for a new tv, the ones we have work just fine but my mom has always been this way. I also showed my 63 year old mother this thread; she laughed and said, "wow, what a bunch of busy bodies." In closing, I did not know this was an international thread as I am rarely on here and have NEVER posted anything before. You can trust and believe I will never post anything again, especially since everything said was pretty much useless, so congrats mission accomplished yall!

ps. if youre interested you can google "the knot horrible" or "the knot sucks" or "the knot awful women" and enjoy the NUMEROUS threads revealing how ridiculous most of the people on here are. I wish I had before hand.

And PKDHH or whatever...partner just got home, I showed them your post, and direct from them to you:

Oh no youre totally right! You win, now we believe that going to a govt office and signing a contract has immense meaning to us! That 15 minutes overshadows the years weve spent together. Great sophies choice there.

So again, shows over folks. Everything is already booked and scheduled so no need for your unhelpful "tips" anymore. And for the record,

1. I do have my "own damn insurance" but being a teacher and my partner being a government employee means that theirs is substantially better. Having a chronic illness further substantiates the need to switch over to theirs, even if only in case of emergency, and this was my moms idea.

2. I got a dual BA from UC Berkeley, one in cultural anthropology focused on "othering" (i.e. gender, sexuality, ethnicity, ability, etc) and one in integrative biology in order to become a paleoanthropologist. During my time in school I built a strong affinity towards issues of social justice and so got an MA in education and teaching credential from USC. My thesis was on high needs schools and the retention of black and brown youth in the sciences. I decided to give back through teaching (and earn some money to handle student loan debt) for a few years before pursuing my doctorate. My partner got his MBA. Our student loan bills total $1400 per month, so no, extras are not in the carefully maintained budget I have devised

3. The examples given of marital rituals are silly at best. No, no one will be checking for the blood on your marital sheet but Id be willing to bet that the majority of you are going to be introduced as "Mr and Mrs *insert his full name". Even those who choose to keep their maiden names and hyphenate do not also request their spouses add their names and hyphenate as well. Some of you may even still have the word "obey" in your vows and in general marital vows reinforce the standard of refraining from gender neutral language. Language and actions are the last vestiges of the fight for social justice as most people tend to live blind and believe that -isms (i.e. racism, and to a lesser extent sexism) are no longer issues today. I could give more examples but I dont have all day.

4. Non-heterosexual couples who are fighting for the right to marry (at least the majority that I know) are not doing so just to get a marriage certificate or because heterosexual couples can and they cant. They are fighting to be able to legally marry so that they may enjoy the rights associated with recognition (i.e. being designated next of kin, visitation rights, legal and financial protection, insurance etc) which is the same reason I am doing it and why I have put it off in general. If marriage offered none of those benefits I highly doubt the fight would be as critical, which is also why many people reject civil unions, because they do not confer the same level of rights and protection and are not recognized universally. So no there is nothing fraudulent or hypocritical about that.

5. Yall dont know anything about my relationship with my mom so hush. I am privileged enough to have a mom that wanted me to achieve my dreams, something she was never able to do. My mom has a degree she doesnt want and makes a substantial amount of money at a job she hates so that I could go to school and thrive. If you actually read (which I know yall are wont to do) the lunch thing was initially an offhand joke but for real, my mom is paying for EVERY aspect of this trip because she wanted us to come, it was her idea, and it is a gift. She is also paying for her boyfriend to come and taking 4 people to lunch/dinner can easily be over $300. My mom would be appalled if I spent that kind of money on a meal for us as she would rather that I pay off my student loans and save and let her (who makes more money) take care of the indulgences. My mom knows that I am thankful for her and all she wants from me is to do well in life and dont let my sister have her when shes old. She is just like that, likes to buy/do things for me, probably because we both have had very difficult lives and she wants to make sure that mine is just a little bit better. Earlier this year she bought us a flat screen tv unsolicited and it was not a holiday of any kind, just bought it because thats how she does. I did not even want or intimate my desire for a new tv, the ones we have work just fine but my mom has always been this way. I also showed my 63 year old mother this thread; she laughed and said, "wow, what a bunch of busy bodies." In closing, I did not know this was an international thread as I am rarely on here and have NEVER posted anything before. You can trust and believe I will never post anything again, especially since everything said was pretty much useless, so congrats mission accomplished yall!

ps. if youre interested you can google "the knot horrible" or "the knot sucks" or "the knot awful women" and enjoy the NUMEROUS threads revealing how ridiculous most of the people on here are. I wish I had before hand.

And PKDHH or whatever...partner just got home, I showed them your post, and direct from them to you:

Oh no youre totally right! You win, now we believe that going to a govt office and signing a contract has immense meaning to us! That 15 minutes overshadows the years weve spent together. Great sophies choice there.

And PKDHH or whatever...partner just got home, I showed them your post, and direct from them to you:

Oh no youre totally right! You win, now we believe that going to a govt office and signing a contract has immense meaning to us! That 15 minutes overshadows the years weve spent together. Great sophies choice there.

You're not going to the JOP because you need validation of your choice to be a monogamous couple, you are going to the JOP so that the US Government legally recognizes your marriage so that you can receive the medical and tax benefits that you stated you wanted.

"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."

So again, shows over folks. Everything is already booked and scheduled so no need for your unhelpful "tips" anymore. And for the record,

1. I do have my "own damn insurance" but being a teacher and my partner being a government employee means that theirs is substantially better. Having a chronic illness further substantiates the need to switch over to theirs, even if only in case of emergency, and this was my moms idea.

2. I got a dual BA from UC Berkeley, one in cultural anthropology focused on "othering" (i.e. gender, sexuality, ethnicity, ability, etc) and one in integrative biology in order to become a paleoanthropologist. During my time in school I built a strong affinity towards issues of social justice and so got an MA in education and teaching credential from USC. My thesis was on high needs schools and the retention of black and brown youth in the sciences. I decided to give back through teaching (and earn some money to handle student loan debt) for a few years before pursuing my doctorate. My partner got his MBA. Our student loan bills total $1400 per month, so no, extras are not in the carefully maintained budget I have devised

3. The examples given of marital rituals are silly at best. No, no one will be checking for the blood on your marital sheet but Id be willing to bet that the majority of you are going to be introduced as "Mr and Mrs *insert his full name". Newp, you'd loose that bet. A lot of us are not taking our husband's last name and are not going to be introduced as you described. Even those who choose to keep their maiden names and hyphenate do not also request their spouses add their names and hyphenate as well. I'm not hypenating either. I'm keeping my last name, period. Some of you may even still have the word "obey" in your vows and in general marital vows reinforce the standard of refraining from gender neutral language. Under no circumstance will the word "obey" be in my vows. Language and actions are the last vestiges of the fight for social justice as most people tend to live blind and believe that -isms (i.e. racism, and to a lesser extent sexism) are no longer issues today. I could give more examples but I dont have all day.

4. Non-heterosexual couples who are fighting for the right to marry (at least the majority that I know) are not doing so just to get a marriage certificate or because heterosexual couples can and they cant. They are fighting to be able to legally marry so that they may enjoy the rights associated with recognition (i.e. being designated next of kin, visitation rights, legal and financial protection, insurance etc) which is the same reason I am doing it and why I have put it off in general. If marriage offered none of those benefits I highly doubt the fight would be as critical, which is also why many people reject civil unions, because they do not confer the same level of rights and protection and are not recognized universally. So no there is nothing fraudulent or hypocritical about that.

5. Yall dont know anything about my relationship with my mom so hush. I am privileged enough to have a mom that wanted me to achieve my dreams, something she was never able to do. My mom has a degree she doesnt want and makes a substantial amount of money at a job she hates so that I could go to school and thrive. If you actually read (which I know yall are wont to do) the lunch thing was initially an offhand joke but for real, my mom is paying for EVERY aspect of this trip because she wanted us to come, it was her idea, and it is a gift. She is also paying for her boyfriend to come and taking 4 people to lunch/dinner can easily be over $300. My mom would be appalled if I spent that kind of money on a meal for us as she would rather that I pay off my student loans and save and let her (who makes more money) take care of the indulgences. My mom knows that I am thankful for her and all she wants from me is to do well in life and dont let my sister have her when shes old. She is just like that, likes to buy/do things for me, probably because we both have had very difficult lives and she wants to make sure that mine is just a little bit better. Earlier this year she bought us a flat screen tv unsolicited and it was not a holiday of any kind, just bought it because thats how she does. I did not even want or intimate my desire for a new tv, the ones we have work just fine but my mom has always been this way. I also showed my 63 year old mother this thread; she laughed and said, "wow, what a bunch of busy bodies." In closing, I did not know this was an international thread as I am rarely on here and have NEVER posted anything before. You can trust and believe I will never post anything again, especially since everything said was pretty much useless, so congrats mission accomplished yall!

ps. if youre interested you can google "the knot horrible" or "the knot sucks" or "the knot awful women" and enjoy the NUMEROUS threads revealing how ridiculous most of the people on here are. I wish I had before hand.

"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."

I'm not going to apologize or feel bad for recommending non-dickish behavior, because apologies and bad feelings are not necessary for giving good advice. Regardless of whether people who are in dire need of validation by strangers on the internet take the advice or not.

Enjoy your partnership that you will receive married benefits for, congratulations, and maybe give your mom a can of soup. You don't have to cook it, apparently she won't find that strange at all.

Shit guys, I didn't realize that none of us were sufficiently feminist until this thread. I guess if you get an MA in social justice your brain just doesn't have room for "basic decency toward one's own mother."

And PKDHH or whatever...partner just got home, I showed them your post, and direct from them to you:

Oh no youre totally right! You win, now we believe that going to a govt office and signing a contract has immense meaning to us! That 15 minutes overshadows the years weve spent together. Great sophies choice there.

You're not going to the JOP because you need validation of your choice to be a monogamous couple, you are going to the JOP so that the US Government legally recognizes your marriage so that you can receive the medical and tax benefits that you stated you wanted.

Your partner fails at reading comprehension. I actually said you don't need the government's say so to make your relationship worthwhile (see all homosexual couples who have wedding/commitment ceremonies despite inability to legally wed). I said you need it to get the benefits which you are apparently in desperate need of.

I'm bored today though, so let's go for it.

1. Glad you have insurance; that's often a hard thing to come by. (Grammar note - their can't refer to a single person). By all means, get married to get better insurance. I don't judge that decision. I judge the idea that getting married in a courthouse somehow doesn't suffice as a wedding.

2. As a "brown" person, I find that term to be offensive. How many people on this earth are brown in color? You can't come up with a more specific ethnic term? Also, incredibly interesting that you focused on othering in your studies (I depended on Edward Said's "Orientalism" for a lot of my own thesis), since that is what you are doing with every user here who has disagreed with you. We didn't support your ideas, were different from you, so therefore we became bad. "Oh, you don't support me or my ideas, then you must be a horrible raging antifeminist!" complete with expletives and juvenile name-calling.

3. This whole point just continues the othering train. How sad someone as educated as you would make these wild assumptions and criticisms about users here. And you are dead wrong in these assumptions - you would know that if you had spent any time trying to get to know the users here.

4. I'm glad you realize these points. I believe "just signing the paperwork" is a fraudulent action when a couple doesn't consider themselves truly married after going to the courthouse, and thus believing in the need for a "real" ceremony or celebration to follow.

5. This just makes me even more sad that you wont take this wonderful woman and mother out to lunch.

And PKDHH or whatever...partner just got home, I showed them your post, and direct from them to you:

Oh no youre totally right! You win, now we believe that going to a govt office and signing a contract has immense meaning to us! That 15 minutes overshadows the years weve spent together. Great sophies choice there.

You're not going to the JOP because you need validation of your choice to be a monogamous couple, you are going to the JOP so that the US Government legally recognizes your marriage so that you can receive the medical and tax benefits that you stated you wanted.

Your partner fails at reading comprehension. I actually said you don't need the government's say so to make your relationship worthwhile (see all homosexual couples who have wedding/commitment ceremonies despite inability to legally wed). I said you need it to get the benefits which you are apparently in desperate need of.

I'm bored today though, so let's go for it.

1. Glad you have insurance; that's often a hard thing to come by. (Grammar note - their can't refer to a single person). By all means, get married to get better insurance. I don't judge that decision. I judge the idea that getting married in a courthouse somehow doesn't suffice as a wedding.

2. As a "brown" person, I find that term to be offensive. How many people on this earth are brown in color? You can't come up with a more specific ethnic term? Also, incredibly interesting that you focused on othering in your studies (I depended on Edward Said's "Orientalism" for a lot of my own thesis), since that is what you are doing with every user here who has disagreed with you. We didn't support your ideas, were different from you, so therefore we became bad. "Oh, you don't support me or my ideas, then you must be a horrible raging antifeminist!" complete with expletives and juvenile name-calling.

3. This whole point just continues the othering train. How sad someone as educated as you would make these wild assumptions and criticisms about users here. And you are dead wrong in these assumptions - you would know that if you had spent any time trying to get to know the users here.

4. I'm glad you realize these points. I believe "just signing the paperwork" is a fraudulent action when a couple doesn't consider themselves truly married after going to the courthouse, and thus believing in the need for a "real" ceremony or celebration to follow.

5. This just makes me even more sad that you wont take this wonderful woman and mother out to lunch.

Just addressing this because I love your post and don't want you to hear this from someone who's mad already--using "their" for the singular is a deliberate choice among some feminist writers because it is non-gendered and a little less awkward than "his/her." There's a ton of theory about it that I haven't read/don't find particularly interesting, but I just figured I'd pipe in since you might get excoriated for that by our more-feminist-than-thou OP.

As a copy editor I don't like it. As a feminist I understand it. But overall I think I fall on the "his/her" side of the debate (and to take it a step further, on the alternating-paragraph format of using "he" as the general person in one paragraph, then switching to "she" in the next).

And PKDHH or whatever...partner just got home, I showed them your post, and direct from them to you:

Oh no youre totally right! You win, now we believe that going to a govt office and signing a contract has immense meaning to us! That 15 minutes overshadows the years weve spent together. Great sophies choice there.

You're not going to the JOP because you need validation of your choice to be a monogamous couple, you are going to the JOP so that the US Government legally recognizes your marriage so that you can receive the medical and tax benefits that you stated you wanted.

Your partner fails at reading comprehension. I actually said you don't need the government's say so to make your relationship worthwhile (see all homosexual couples who have wedding/commitment ceremonies despite inability to legally wed). I said you need it to get the benefits which you are apparently in desperate need of.

I'm bored today though, so let's go for it.

1. Glad you have insurance; that's often a hard thing to come by. (Grammar note - their can't refer to a single person). By all means, get married to get better insurance. I don't judge that decision. I judge the idea that getting married in a courthouse somehow doesn't suffice as a wedding.

2. As a "brown" person, I find that term to be offensive. How many people on this earth are brown in color? You can't come up with a more specific ethnic term? Also, incredibly interesting that you focused on othering in your studies (I depended on Edward Said's "Orientalism" for a lot of my own thesis), since that is what you are doing with every user here who has disagreed with you. We didn't support your ideas, were different from you, so therefore we became bad. "Oh, you don't support me or my ideas, then you must be a horrible raging antifeminist!" complete with expletives and juvenile name-calling.

3. This whole point just continues the othering train. How sad someone as educated as you would make these wild assumptions and criticisms about users here. And you are dead wrong in these assumptions - you would know that if you had spent any time trying to get to know the users here.

4. I'm glad you realize these points. I believe "just signing the paperwork" is a fraudulent action when a couple doesn't consider themselves truly married after going to the courthouse, and thus believing in the need for a "real" ceremony or celebration to follow.

5. This just makes me even more sad that you wont take this wonderful woman and mother out to lunch.

Just addressing this because I love your post and don't want you to hear this from someone who's mad already--using "their" for the singular is a deliberate choice among some feminist writers because it is non-gendered and a little less awkward than "his/her." There's a ton of theory about it that I haven't read/don't find particularly interesting, but I just figured I'd pipe in since you might get excoriated for that by our more-feminist-than-thou OP.

As a copy editor I don't like it. As a feminist I understand it. But overall I think I fall on the "his/her" side of the debate (and to take it a step further, on the alternating-paragraph format of using "he" as the general person in one paragraph, then switching to "she" in the next).

I get it too, but it still drives me absolutely insane. It's not proper English, and it prompts more confusion than equality IMHO. Their is not a singular pronoun. I understand English (like a bazillion other languages) fails to offer good gender-neutral alternatives, which sucks though. I end up with his/her usually as well in order to prevent confusion.

And PKDHH or whatever...partner just got home, I showed them your post, and direct from them to you:

Oh no youre totally right! You win, now we believe that going to a govt office and signing a contract has immense meaning to us! That 15 minutes overshadows the years weve spent together. Great sophies choice there.

You're not going to the JOP because you need validation of your choice to be a monogamous couple, you are going to the JOP so that the US Government legally recognizes your marriage so that you can receive the medical and tax benefits that you stated you wanted.

Your partner fails at reading comprehension. I actually said you don't need the government's say so to make your relationship worthwhile (see all homosexual couples who have wedding/commitment ceremonies despite inability to legally wed). I said you need it to get the benefits which you are apparently in desperate need of.

I'm bored today though, so let's go for it.

1. Glad you have insurance; that's often a hard thing to come by. (Grammar note - their can't refer to a single person). By all means, get married to get better insurance. I don't judge that decision. I judge the idea that getting married in a courthouse somehow doesn't suffice as a wedding.

2. As a "brown" person, I find that term to be offensive. How many people on this earth are brown in color? You can't come up with a more specific ethnic term? Also, incredibly interesting that you focused on othering in your studies (I depended on Edward Said's "Orientalism" for a lot of my own thesis), since that is what you are doing with every user here who has disagreed with you. We didn't support your ideas, were different from you, so therefore we became bad. "Oh, you don't support me or my ideas, then you must be a horrible raging antifeminist!" complete with expletives and juvenile name-calling.

3. This whole point just continues the othering train. How sad someone as educated as you would make these wild assumptions and criticisms about users here. And you are dead wrong in these assumptions - you would know that if you had spent any time trying to get to know the users here.

4. I'm glad you realize these points. I believe "just signing the paperwork" is a fraudulent action when a couple doesn't consider themselves truly married after going to the courthouse, and thus believing in the need for a "real" ceremony or celebration to follow.

5. This just makes me even more sad that you wont take this wonderful woman and mother out to lunch.

Just addressing this because I love your post and don't want you to hear this from someone who's mad already--using "their" for the singular is a deliberate choice among some feminist writers because it is non-gendered and a little less awkward than "his/her." There's a ton of theory about it that I haven't read/don't find particularly interesting, but I just figured I'd pipe in since you might get excoriated for that by our more-feminist-than-thou OP.

As a copy editor I don't like it. As a feminist I understand it. But overall I think I fall on the "his/her" side of the debate (and to take it a step further, on the alternating-paragraph format of using "he" as the general person in one paragraph, then switching to "she" in the next).

However, OP has specifically stated that her partner is male. I fail to see how it is antifeminist to refer to a known male as him or he, or refer to known female as she or her.

This entire post makes my head hurt. However, the one thing that stands out to me is the "I can't afford" or "we can't afford" statements followed by "we can afford, but we're frugal." I'm sorry, but the difference in cost for the marriage licenses is $30. Is $30 too much money to spend on marrying your life partner, the person you love more than anything, and on top of all that, a huge potential savings on insurance (not that I agree with that reasoning.)

Also, lunch at McDonald's or Pizza Hut is not ideal, but it's something. Is another $20-$50 not worth the thank you for years of support, celebrating love, and being thankful?

Being frugal can be a very wise thing, but not when it comes to something of significant importance, like simple respect, kindness, and compassion.

This entire post makes my head hurt. However, the one thing that stands out to me is the "I can't afford" or "we can't afford" statements followed by "we can afford, but we're frugal." I'm sorry, but the difference in cost for the marriage licenses is $30. Is $30 too much money to spend on marrying your life partner, the person you love more than anything, and on top of all that, a huge potential savings on insurance (not that I agree with that reasoning.)
Also, lunch at McDonald's or Pizza Hut is not ideal, but it's something. Is another $20-$50 not worth the thank you for years of support, celebrating love, and being thankful?
Being frugal can be a very wise thing, but not when it comes to something of significant importance, like simple respect, kindness, and compassion.

My crazy old grandpa likes to use the phrase, "Penny wise, pound foolish."

Frugal? Cool. Unwilling to drop a little money to actually get married in Hawaii? Foolish. Unwilling to give mom a nice thank you lunch? DAMN FOOLISH.