(17-04-2015 09:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote: So I'm having a discussion with someone who is adamant that the 500 witnesses are proof of Jesus' resurrection. My understanding is that Paul sort of interviewed, if you could call it that, the 500 people many years after the supposed zombie day event.

Can anyone give me some other tips on this.

Thanks, gang.

Only 500 people...

This was "god" who humiliated himself by becoming a "lowly" human, then allowed himself to be subjected to hours of torture and ridicule, finally ending in his very painful death. And why? To save all of humanity... er, from himself, but we won't go there for now. How did all that actually save us? The only thing I can think of that even heads in some slight direction of "sense" is that it was supposed to teach us something - like maybe to prove to us that he is god by rising from the dead. So he only wanted 500 people to learn it? Makes perfect sense.

The same god that apparently was on equal footing with the all powerful pharoah, because he had to send 10 different plagues agianst the pharoah to convince him to release the slaves, so they could make it to god's promised land

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)

(17-04-2015 09:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote: So I'm having a discussion with someone who is adamant that the 500 witnesses are proof of Jesus' resurrection. My understanding is that Paul sort of interviewed, if you could call it that, the 500 people many years after the supposed zombie day event.

Can anyone give me some other tips on this.

Thanks, gang.

None of the gospels were written during the time the bible claims Jesus existed. That would make the the "eyewitness" highly suspect and second hand hearsay.

Think about it, if I concocted a completely fictional story and claimed 500 people saw Donald Trump give me a check for 5 million dollars does that make me a millionaire?

500 as a number is a literary device to over exaggerate the the story to make it sound lagit. Other parts of the bible claim another character lived 900 years.

Same with the flood lasting 40 days or the Jews wandering the desert for 40 years. Numbers in even polytheistic antiquity were used as literary devices to promote and suck the reader in.

Having said that, even if we accept the alleged people who have claimed they saw it as real, that does not mean they understood what they saw. Humans preformed magic tricks even back then so if "something" happened, it would only mean those people misunderstood what they saw.

The claim by conspiracy nuts was all of them saw the sun darting and spinning. But if you look at the article the reality is not all of them reported to see the sun spin and dart in the sky. Nor does the sun do that in reality.

The natural explanations given as to why were cloud refracting the sunlight, staring too long directly at the sun, or even pressing on your eyelids can cause you to see colors once you open your eyes and those colors can be shaped like a circle and dart around mixing with the visual input going into your eye.

But that myth did take off despite no real scientists being at the event or even reporting at telescope labs. But because just enough there wanted to believe what they were being told, which is what couple of kids from a church told them prior as a prophecy, it became a mass delusion.

It ultimately amounts to if you want to believe the story badly enough you will. If you want to believe Penn really sawed that woman in half, you will, even if the reality is that it is simply a trick pulled on you.

(17-04-2015 09:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote: So I'm having a discussion with someone who is adamant that the 500 witnesses are proof of Jesus' resurrection. My understanding is that Paul sort of interviewed, if you could call it that, the 500 people many years after the supposed zombie day event.

Can anyone give me some other tips on this.

Thanks, gang.

The very notion of a resurrection appearance to 500 at one time is probably a late piece of apocrypha, reminiscent of the extravagances of the Acts of Pilate. If the claim of 500 witnesses were early tradition, can anyone explain its total absence from the gospel tradition?

There is no independent verification of them, or of the resurrection itself. No non-Christian sources attest to them. Paul says that there were 500 witnesses. But one man claiming that there were 500 witnesses is not the same as 500 people claiming to be witnesses. This is a classic case of Christians using fiction to support fiction. I could use the same arguments to prove that Superman had super powers. I could say that Superman stopped a runaway train by grabbing it and slowing it to a halt. As he did, there were 500 passengers on board who were eyewitnesses to what Superman did. This proves that Superman had super powers.

(17-04-2015 01:27 PM)pablo Wrote: 500 people saw one of my ancestors invent the wheel.
According to them, anyone anywhere that is manufacturing, or using anything wheel-like owes me royalties for the use of my families invention.

The problem with that claim is this: there was no reaction. If you were a follower of Christ, or even Jewish, you believed in God. If Jesus resurrected and 500 people saw him, including Jews, all would have come to the realization that he was the son of god, and the Romans and fellow Jews had him crucified. This would anger people to know that the messiah they waited centuries for was killed for absolutely no reason other than pissing people off. They would have revolted in the name of their God. They would have gathered in masses and took their fight to Rome, there would have been reports written other than the bible that said he rose and was seen, there would have been one unified religion since the entire easter world would have been witness to his resurrection. The key is that none of the above happened. People also witnessed Muhammad ascend to heaven but that story lacks the same legs the Christian resurrection does. This is simply a fable.