I would like to see the video of good Aikido. Don't hate me for asking.

Owlmatt said he had better, so I was hoping for video. Denied.

So define "good". In the context of what? Of an aikido class ? Of MMA ? Of Judo ? Of "alive training" ?

I can tell you that the wrist techniques used in aikido "work", and that if properly applied in the context of aikido training, will cause serious damage to the joint(s) in question. I think you know that already, though.

So, it begs the question, how to do "alive" training in aikido without injuring uke...so uke has to jump in many cases. So it's not alive...of course this appears to be the old "too deadly for alive training/competition" BS.

But it's not. You can go hard at an aikidoka (I've done it), and IF he/she catches the technique, you had better jump or your wrist will snap. It's a big IF, though, and they in general suck at anything approaching typical Judo randori. Again, in my personal experience with aikido yudansha.

So, context of "good" aikido ? Would you know it if you saw it? There are videos of Morihei Ueshiba doing aikido out there...good or bad Aikido...or Aikibudo...or Aikijujutsu ?

Who talked about 20 years of alive training? That's you, not reading my post but Permalost's mistake and drumming up more mistakes of your own. Great reading the thread....did you JUST get back from the beach?

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts.

Liar.

Video is the Bullshido burden of proof for an alive MA claim.

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts.

Video it is then.

I've made no MA claims in this thread. I asked to see video of someone else's claim.

Liar.

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts.

What BS claim? There was no BS claim, I am not a bullshidoka, hence your reference to those arguments is fallacious tripe.

A good martial artist is always consciously aware of every step of what he is doing. This is mindfulness. It is not some Pavlovian stupid human trick. Note I didn't say "thinking about it". I said "aware of".

Now this is the most LOL-worthy post in this thread!
It just needs context:

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

Developing into a *good* boxer involves throwing thousands of punches and dodging thousands more to train the mind to be instinctive when doing both. That is mu shin. A very old concept that is about as critical to boxing (western or eastern) as any other martial art. The best fighters never engage and begin wondering "what technique should I use?"...this fighter is quickly beaten regardless of the details. The best fighters will respond intuitively, complete mind/body as they've been trained, from a combination of the endless practice of forms combined with sanda (shadowboxing) and progressive sparring.

I could not explain it nearly as well as Musashi in the Book of Five Rings, Bruce Lee in his writings/interviews, or the others who have written books about Zen/Chan concepts in fighting but I will certainly blab about it. Mushin is a very well known concept closely tied to eastern martial arts, the samurai/bushido training/code, and way more than I could fit into a thread. Mushin isn't even limited to martial arts. Fighter pilots rely on mu-shin to land on aircraft carriers for instance.

My own humble observations about mushin: It's the emptiness of thought when performing a mastered skill, the ultimate physical representation of a technique. Great boxers definitely exhibit mushin, when they instinctively dodge and counterpunch accurately it is because they've hammered those techniques so much they reach a point where the timing and movement is completely intuitive. Compare the novice boxer's first awkward punch and poor balance to the power, speed, and precision of someone who has trained to the points where they've "unlearned" their techniques, and now those techniques seem as natural as breathing. That is mu shin "no mind" fighting. It is likely something only the most dedicated of martial artists (hardcore amateurs and professionals) could accomplish. I definitely do not claim to have this but mushin should be the ultimate goal of any martial artist, if you believe in the wisdom of the ancient fighters like Musashi, who was a master of two sword combat technique and wrote extensively on it.

Or Judo? Well? Anything? I've at least posted a lame video of me throwing a green belt or two in a regional shiai, so come on, Rabbit, step up to the plate. As well as I believe one of me getting smashed into the tatami by a guy equal in rank to me.

Of course, it's not necessary for you to do so to post what you want, but, hypocrit much?

I just don't have any video of me. Sorry, if I did I'd post it.

And regardless of what Surf Brother Cheng said, I never claimed to have "20 years of experience" in anything, simply because I said I've loved hard sparring since I was ten and chose arts that had it, in response to "do spar?", which was Doof's obvious attempt to derail the entire discussion about good Aikido with a suggestion I didn't know what aliveness was.

Hey, I can compete in Kuoshu until I'm 41. That leaves me four years to scratch that off my bucket list, and give Bullshido a worthy sample of Hung ga san da.

Right now this thread should be about worthy samples of Aikido, or I'm in the wrong thread.

Yep that's me. Those weapons aren't in my garage, I don't prefer hard contact, and I think I'm the "voice" of Bullshido because I figured we all would love to see some allegedly good Aikido on video, which is an uber-delicacy.

That's kind of why I come to this site. Good video. I don't claim to be able to MAKE it, though. If I claimed to be a great martial artist, you'd have a leg to stand on.

But I've never, ever, claimed to be a good martial artist. Ever.

Originally Posted by ChenPengFi

Desperate?
No that's you, grasping for straws, invoking "us", shifting burden and being confused about your own posting history.

I can see right through you.

LOL SHIFTING BURDEN. Yep, the burden shifted all right.

In a thread about Aikido, in a discussion about Aikido, from video about Aikido...

I'll remember never to ask for video of alive Aikido again, that's for sure. You're right, the rants about Aikido's past and future are definitely more valuable.

Now this is the most LOL-worthy post in this thread!
It just needs context:

So which is it, no mind or mindfulness, you confused ************?

I'm not really keen on being a part of this Aikido Flame war which - believe me is entertaining in itself. I just wanted to point out that 'Hyperawarenes', 'Hypervigilance' and 'Hyperarousal' are real things.

Having a 'reaction' based conscious while still being 'hyper aware' of your surroundings isn't impossible; and actually makes sense. You don't want to be thinking as much about your next move as you do what your opponents next move is - and the ability to counter attack. 'Mindfulness' is not really the right word. 'Hyperaware' is likely a better term to have been used.

To me it seems that the two posts aren't so much counters to each other as complimenting. A fighter should be hyperaware of the surroundings and his own actions while still reacting on instinct and reactions.

Anyway - you can neg my post now and continue with your ludacris argument for everyones entertainment.

Does the type of thinking you are thinking about apply to any physical endeavor, or just martial arts?

I think pretty much any physical endeavor. For instance, when I first learned to drive a nail with a hammer, I had to remember to line my elbow up, to keep the fingers of my free hand out of the way, etc. But when the time came to get up on a roof and put shingles in, it was a good thing I had learned to drive a nail without having to think through it anymore, because my mind was busy keeping my ass from falling off the roof.

Originally Posted by BKR

Fair enough on ya, I need to read better. And you know by what means very few aikido instructors make any appreciable income? My aiki kai sources have told me otherwise.

I can only speak from my own experiences, which I confess are limited to the clubs in and around Wisconsin (though this covers a pretty broad spectrum of organizations -- Shingu, ASU, Capitol Aikikai, USAF). The only people I know who make any real income from teaching aikido are high-level guys who travel around teaching seminars. I don't know any local instructors who make a living teaching aikido.