Guidance for newbies to the ACF forum

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LE

Given that many threads have been repeated time and time again with constant retreads, quite frankly its getting a bit silly, so this guidance is to help to clarify a few points and prevent retreads.

The ACF is a fantastic organisation be proud of working for it, we are part of the Big Army Family, we are an equal partner but different, we each have diffferent expertise in each area specific to our roles, some have served in the Regular, TA and ACF, some in two or even all three !

for the purpose of this thread when a section is mentioned this means either 2 sections which will comprise of Regs/TA and ACF as the TA and Regulars work together a lot.

we all make our contribution to the greater whole.

The many Thread posts seemed to revolve round

RANK:

OFFICERS: they all hold the Queens Commission whether REG/TA/ACF, all should be saluted, remember It is not YOU that is being saluted, Its Her Majesty the Queen.

NCOs: in each section there are ranks with authority in each sections, they are "real" only in their own section, neither has authority over the other, an ACF Rank has no power in the TA/reg, nor do the Regs/TA have any authority in the ACF without CRB clearance or a Red book, the ONLY exception is the Cadet Training Team which is staffed by regular soldiers.

(NOTE: Members of the Public just don't care about your Rank whether ACF or Army, to be honest they don't give a fuck, so bickering about it serves no useful purpose)

INSECURITY too many threads seemed to be about comparing the ACF to the Regs/TA and how lacking we might be in some areas or how Waltish we may look, the two CANNOT be compared like for like, our jobs is too different for comparision, if we don't show that we are proud of the ACF and its achievments, do you think any ex Soldiers is going to want to join an organisation that looks insecure about itself ?

TRFs that seemed to be an issue best left to HQ Land and individual regiments to decide, go with the flow, if everybody in County is doing it , you do it, be proud of it if you are wearing it, don't flaunt it, that is Waltism.

MEDALS Cadet Force medals if you can last 12 years in the ACF you truely have earned it ! wearing Medals means you have survived !, same for the Reg/TA any gong says you have done well, both are merits awards and should be worn proudly, if you receive a Jubilee medal wear it well as it is a gift from her Majesty for the Contributions you have made to the general good of society

MESS KITS AND No2s wearing is permitted as long as you use the ACF titles, if you can afford a Mess kit, go ahead and get one if you want it, its a matter of personal choice. Service dress is the same, No2s are slightly cheaper again don't forget those ACF titles.

WOs WRISTLETS wearing one is ok, as long as you have the rank.

REGIMENTAL TIES it is ok to wear one, as long as you don't try to pass yourself of as a Reg/TA, it is ok to show that you are proud of the Regimental Family, in many Regiment there are four pillars to the Regimental Family, the Army, The TA, Regimental Association and the Army Cadets.

WALTS No getting away from this one, they are everywhere, however they don't usually last long and find Cadets really hard work, are usually found friendless in the mess after having been found out, they soon clear off.

NONCES the ACF attracts such types like flies to a honeypot, CRB clearances usually sorts most of them out, unfortunately 1% do get through, they give the ACF a bad name and the danger of all Instructors being tarred with the same brush, don't post threads about them, report them to the Authorities.

COMMON COURTESY easily overlooked sometimes , Rank is not everything, a willingness to engage, meet with the Reg/TA halfway and making friends, makes a lot of difference to you, the Cadets and the Army guys, who would love to work with cadets and show off their Military stuff/Skills to them, gaining potential recruits and an appreciation of the Army is a positive benefit to both, some of the Soldiers may also consider joining the ACF when they leave the Army.......so SMILE !!

POLITICS its there like any big organisation, its hard to avoid, the trick is to rise above it, side step it all, focus on what we are here for, Cadets.

ACF is a really great organisation, you have the power to influence the future generation for the good, many will hopefully will look back at the Cadet as the best times of their lives and will remember their favourite Instructor for many years to come, be a good ambassasdor of the Organisation, be positive about it, tell it to anyone in Uniform and give them good stories if you have any, beware it can be addictive !!

the list above is not exhausive, more can be added and updated in some future date.

before posting a thread, please check if it has already been posted, make it relevent, useful, no drivel, no crap, make it interesting, if you have any good ACF stories or funnies to tell, we would like to hear it !!

"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life" Cecil Rhodes

Swinger

Well spoken. Is this the end of all those hand-wringing posts about rank, regimental dress and so on? Let's hope so. In particular, I hope people take your advice to look to their county for guidance on what may be worn or not.

The ACF should promote what is best about the British armed forces. To do so, we can't help looking a bit military ourselves (even those of us who have no military experience whatsoever). That's not walting, it's showing due respect to those we want the cadets to emulate.

Swinger

Semper I echo Silverstoat's remark I just fear that you have denied us all the opportunity to resurrect these threads ad nauseam. I suspect there are many of the non-Acf contibutors who will grieve now they are unable to pour scorn and abuse on some aspects of our work.

Now can I just ask Is ACF rank real? Can I have an LSW for every cadet and most of all can I have a little tank like Lieutenant Gruber from Allo Allo for annual camp? NB all these are said for irony and humour.

LE

LE

J Clarkson ( 200 There is no difference in my book between the spokesman for Viva! and suicide bombers who fly planes into tall buildings. Both believe they are right and, crucially, neither wants the other point of view to be heard.

when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion

LE

In the time taken to write this, I expect that the thread has been overtaken by unruly influences. Nevertheless, some constructive comments from outside the organisation:

semper said:

The many Thread posts seemed to revolve round

RANK:

OFFICERS: they all hold the Queens Commission whether REG/TA/ACF, all should be saluted, remember It is not YOU that is being saluted, Its Her Majesty the Queen. I presume you mean THEY, rather than YOU. Incidentally, you're not saluting the Queen, you're saluting the officer out of respect to the rank that they hold.

NCOs: in each section there are ranks with authority in each sections, they are "real" only in their own section, neither has authority over the other, an ACF Rank has no power in the TA/reg, nor do the Regs/TA have any authority in the ACF without CRB clearance or a Red book, the ONLY exception is the Cadet Training Team which is staffed by regular soldiers. While Regs/TA don't have authority within the ACF, bear in mind that you're only likely to meet them on THEIR turf. They will be more aware of Standing Orders that apply than you will, so strike a sensible balance between doing what they say and confirming this with your AIs. If it's at all safety related, do what they say immediately. If it's to do with dress etc., speak to your AI.

(NOTE: Members of the Public just don't care about your Rank whether ACF or Army, to be honest they don't give a fuck, so bickering about it serves no useful purpose)

INSECURITY too many threads seemed to be about comparing the ACF to the Regs/TA and how lacking we might be in some areas or how Waltish we may look, the two CANNOT be compared like for like, our jobs is too different for comparision, if we don't show that we are proud of the ACF and its achievments, do you think any ex Soldiers is going to want to join an organisation that looks insecure about itself ? You'd be surprised at the amount of respect that the Army actually does have with regard to Cadets - provided that you conduct yourself properly.

TRFs that seemed to be an issue best left to HQ Land and individual regiments to decide, go with the flow, if everybody in County is doing it , you do it, be proud of it if you are wearing it, don't flaunt it, that is Waltism.

MEDALS Cadet Force medals if you can last 12 years in the ACF you truely have earned it ! wearing Medals means you have survived !, same for the Reg/TA any gong says you have done well, both are merits awards and should be worn proudly, if you receive a Jubilee medal wear it well as it is a gift from her Majesty for the Contributions you have made to the general good of society Actually, the QGJM recognises that somebody was lucky enough to be serving at the right time. Many people have done more than the recipients of the QGJM and got nothing. That said, if you are entitled to wear medals, by all means wear them. But check just WHEN they can actually be worn.

MESS KITS AND No2s wearing is permitted as long as you use the ACF titles, if you can afford a Mess kit, go ahead and get one if you want it, its a matter of personal choice. Service dress is the same, No2s are slightly cheaper again don't forget those ACF titles.

WOs WRISTLETS wearing one is ok, as long as you have the rank.

REGIMENTAL TIES it is ok to wear one, as long as you don't try to pass yourself of as a Reg/TA, it is ok to show that you are proud of the Regimental Family, in many Regiment there are four pillars to the Regimental Family, the Army, The TA, Regimental Association and the Army Cadets. Dodgy ground here. Your unit may be badged to a particular Regiment/Corps, but you're not actually a member of it. You're a member of the ACF. Many soldiers will take a dislike to you wearing one. This is one of the easiest ways to be accused of being a walt. A regimental tie does not have a means of denoting ACF.

WALTS No getting away from this one, they are everywhere, however they don't usually last long and find Cadets really hard work, are usually found friendless in the mess after having been found out, they soon clear off. Some walts have been around for years. The problem is that if you accuse someone of being a walt and you don't have 100% proof, you can land yourself in real trouble. Some walts are harmless and contribute more than some non-walts. Let soldiers worry about walts, cadets don't need to.

NONCES the ACF attracts such types like flies to a honeypot, CRB clearances usually sorts most of them out, unfortunately 1% do get through, they give the ACF a bad name and the danger of all Instructors being tarred with the same brush, don't post threads about them, report them to the Authorities.

COMMON COURTESY easily overlooked sometimes , Rank is not everything, a willingness to engage, meet with the Reg/TA halfway and making friends, makes a lot of difference to you, the Cadets and the Army guys, who would love to work with cadets and show off their Military stuff/Skills to them, gaining potential recruits and an appreciation of the Army is a positive benefit to both, some of the Soldiers may also consider joining the ACF when they leave the Army.......so SMILE !! You're joking - it's too much like hard work!

POLITICS its there like any big organisation, its hard to avoid, the trick is to rise above it, side step it all, focus on what we are here for, Cadets.

ACF is a really great organisation, you have the power to influence the future generation for the good, many will hopefully will look back at the Cadet as the best times of their lives and will remember their favourite Instructor for many years to come, be a good ambassasdor of the Organisation, be positive about it, tell it to anyone in Uniform and give them good stories if you have any, beware it can be addictive !!

the list above is not exhausive, more can be added and updated in some future date.

before posting a thread, please check if it has already been posted, make it relevent, useful, no drivel, no crap, make it interesting, if you have any good ACF stories or funnies to tell, we would like to hear it !!

Swinger

In the time taken to write this, I expect that the thread has been overtaken by unruly influences. Nevertheless, some constructive comments from outside the organisation:

semper said:

The many Thread posts seemed to revolve round

RANK:

OFFICERS: they all hold the Queens Commission whether REG/TA/ACF, all should be saluted, remember It is not YOU that is being saluted, Its Her Majesty the Queen. I presume you mean THEY, rather than YOU. Incidentally, you're not saluting the Queen, you're saluting the officer out of respect to the rank that they hold.

[align=justify]I quote this from The Soldier's Pocket Book: "All compliments derive their origin from the Sovereign, to who the highest compliment, the Royal Salute, is paid. All officers in the Armed Services, including TA and CFs are holders of the Queen's Commission, therefore when you pay comliments to an officer, it is in recognition of the Sovereign's Commission held in trust by that officer."[/align]

LE

"If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camelshagger will save just one British life, then I have only three things to say; Red is positive, Black is negative, and Make sure his nuts are wet"

Old-Salt

Just a general question about Officer ranks in the ACF.
Obviously they hold the Queen's commision, and when in uniform, you should throw on up for them.
However, what actual RANK do they hold? Should they be called Sir (I assume there's nothing that say's either way, however it would be common courtesy to do so, and it'd show a lack of respect not to?)
The reason I ask is because a while back in a thread (which I can't seem to find), was the discussion about cadet officers, at any cadet rank, only holding the ACTUAL rank (where the army are concerned), of a Lt.
For example, we have a cadet force Major who works in the local TA centre and to all intents and purposes, is a complete bellend, and takes great pride and arogance in seeming to think he/she can boss everybody from the TA about, and taking a great deal of satisfaction when doing so. Because of the nature of my TA unit, our highest ranking officer is a Capt, and so if what I suspect (Cadet officers only holding the equivelant army rank of Lt), is true, then we should be putting this obese waste of space in his/her lonely long-awaited place.
The TA staff at the unit don't really help themselves, none of them seem to have enough front with the nobber, and just seem to do whatever he/shr orders, and then moan about him/her afterwards. When from personal experience the way to combat this peice of turd is to argue back until he/she realises that there is no way your going to do what they tell you, rank or no rank.
Not having a go at the ACF, or it's staff in general, just this one reamer whose car I'm seriously considering smashing up. (I say this in the hope that, if I got to a point where I was about to do so, I would stop myself, not being stupid enough to do it, having already posted the idea on an open forum).
Hopefully I'm not making myself out to be a bigtiming dcikcheese by posting this question, it just really anoys me that it seems none of us have a way of stopping these power crazy burger warriors.

LE

I regret that some of our staff really go overboard. Please believe it's a minority getting the majority a bad name. The most of us would never dream of issuing orders to TA or Regular bods (except in matters concerning cadets).

To be honest, someone in your CoC urgently needs to take this one aside and explain the facts of life in single syllable words.

"If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camelshagger will save just one British life, then I have only three things to say; Red is positive, Black is negative, and Make sure his nuts are wet"

Swinger

It doesn't really matter what his rank is. If he's ACF, why is he ordering anyone from another unit about whether thats ACF/TA/Reg. Noone from my unit has any need or intention of getting invoulved with the REME Bn who share our tank park!

Seccondly, why is he hanging about the TA centre when the TA are parading?

Sounds like a tube who needs a senior/officer to show him the error of his ways, if polite does not work a simple '**** off looser' should.