Phi,
I did notice that thread before, but did not follow it as I did not like the discussion. Since you asked I have read the posts. Where do you want to go to with this?

if you read the posts, what information did i supply about my background, especially, when you mentioned that we aren't scientific about our answers?

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I never questioned anyones frame of reference. I try to address the issue, the argumentation and not the person. I expect the same attitude from everyone else. I do not ask someone's curriculum vitae on Aikido or any of the other martial arts and I expect the same from others.

frame of reference is everything when we discuss topics that are complex. frame of reference allows one to know another what are their experience and understanding. if your frame of reference is algebra and mine is multi-variable calculus, then we aren't exactly match in our understanding. our discussion with chris is that we would like him to go and experience (yes, we said it has to be felt) with some of the aforementioned folks so that we could be in the same frame of reference, then we can have a more productive discussion.

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I am quite sure that the IP / IS proponents have a tremendous amount of experience. But did you somehow get the impression that I was a beginner?

i don't ever assume anyone a beginner. what i mentioned about the experience of IP/IS proponents to let folks know that they aren't beginners who didn't know any better. and they all some how lost their mind and believed in magic. and that they have enough experience to know what is good and what is bad.

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Suppose I would make a list of my experiences, the teachers that I have trained with, the places where I have studied, the many special things that I have experienced.
Do you think that you then should at least pause and ponder when I say something?
Well, I don't. Pause, ponder and consider might be wise advice for my students in the dojo. But here on the internet it is about argumentation. If my argumentation is wrong then I want people to come up with solid counter-arguments. And if and where I can I will try to do the same.

Tom

if only you then i might pause or i might not. but if there are a bunch of you say the same thing, then i would definitely pause and ponder. it's statistics. higher number of experience folks said the same thing, then the probability of that thing true is much higher than one or two person said it. and when they said "it has to be felt", and one or two person dismiss that, then i tend to go with the folks that said "it has to be felt".