I am the Witch Doctor Shango Kazim. Through my knowledge of Voodoo, I have risen above the battle between the tribe and the evil spirits. I can win the game as an independent if my body lives to see no more than 1 red and 2 tribesmen still alive.

I am immune to night kills, but in defending myself I reveal my true identity (what happened last night). If (or more like when now that my identity is known) my body dies in a day vote, my spirit lives on and continues to assist the village through the day vote process. My spirit leaves for the afterlife if the tribe fails to outnumber the reds by more than 2.

Yep, but I don't actually count as being a tribe member (the total number of blues won't increase).Now that my identity is known, I figure I'm the sacrificial kill when you can't come up with anything else. Killing me is an easy decision so you won't learn much about who the remaining reds are, but it has to be done eventually so I don't win.

Obhave was red. Its a near certainty that one of TL, tfrizz, Litt, or Ulf is red as a cover for the red vote. Obviously Litt was not. MRandall voted very early on someone else (Kraftster) when it was 2-1 obhave/rylan. MRandall is a noob in these games right? If so, thats the kind of vote one might throw out if new to the game.

Well, assuming CBear3 is being completely disclosing about his role (I have my doubts), he basically provides nothing alive that he can't provide dead. In addition to having an automatic distrust of independents' role descriptions, it doesn't make sense to me that Cbear's spirit lives on "to continue to assist the village." He is not aligned with the village, so I wonder what possible interest he can be looking to serve from the grave.

Overall, the detailed role seems to be inviting us to kill him a lot more than most other independent role claims -- even going so far as to say, basically, "I'll still help you guys if you kill me." I am skeptical of CBear and somewhat leery about killing him until we talk this out.

CBear3 wrote:Yep, but I don't actually count as being a tribe member (the total number of blues won't increase).Now that my identity is known, I figure I'm the sacrificial kill when you can't come up with anything else. Killing me is an easy decision so you won't learn much about who the remaining reds are, but it has to be done eventually so I don't win.

Obhave was red. Its a near certainty that one of TL, tfrizz, Litt, or Ulf is red as a cover for the red vote. Obviously Litt was not. MRandall voted very early on someone else (Kraftster) when it was 2-1 obhave/rylan. MRandall is a noob in these games right? If so, thats the kind of vote one might throw out if new to the game.

Obhave was red. Its a near certainty that one of TL, tfrizz, Litt, or Ulf is red as a cover for the red vote. Obviously Litt was not. MRandall voted very early on someone else (Kraftster) when it was 2-1 obhave/rylan. MRandall is a noob in these games right? If so, thats the kind of vote one might throw out if new to the game.

Obhave was red. Its a near certainty that one of TL, tfrizz, Litt, or Ulf is red as a cover for the red vote. Obviously Litt was not. MRandall voted very early on someone else (Kraftster) when it was 2-1 obhave/rylan. MRandall is a noob in these games right? If so, thats the kind of vote one might throw out if new to the game.

I'd like to vote for one of TL, tfrizz, ulf at this point.

So by your logic, we should vote for you too?

Why would I break a 2-2 tie with a red vote? That's pushing the risk associated with a red cover vote to the point of it no longer making sense.

shafnutz05 wrote:Canaan actually came in fourth on the Rylan voting, so I can actually see some credence to the vote for him. He voted for Rylan shortly after Redwill did, so perhaps he waited to pull the trigger on the deflection vote until it actually looked like Rylan had a decent chance of acquiring enough votes to be strung up? (i.e., he didn't want to show his hand too early in the process).

It's possible canaan switched from Rylan to Kraftster in anticipation of people looking at the Rylan vote, but the timing seems off. When he changed, there were 6 votes for obhave and 5 for Rylan. Only one more vote would've tied things up and they would've had a chance at saving obhave. Given that, I can't see canaan being red.

I'm going to vote to spear thehockeyguru. He didn't vote on day 1, and on day 2 he jumped in with a canaan vote when voting between EPP and shaf was at 3-3. I know redwill joined in with a late switch from ulf to canaan, but I'm not sure there's much to it.

Obhave was red. Its a near certainty that one of TL, tfrizz, Litt, or Ulf is red as a cover for the red vote. Obviously Litt was not. MRandall voted very early on someone else (Kraftster) when it was 2-1 obhave/rylan. MRandall is a noob in these games right? If so, thats the kind of vote one might throw out if new to the game.

I'd like to vote for one of TL, tfrizz, ulf at this point.

So by your logic, we should vote for you too?

If the general proposition is "there is likely a red on the obhave vote" then, yes, slappy has to be considered. That said, given the way the vote unfolded, I tend to agree with him that you, tfrizz, and LITT were most suspicious timing wise. I'd consider ulf and slappy to be less likely options, and myself/Rylan less likely options still. That's just playing the game from a straight vote count standpoint, though. I'd hope we end up having more than that in the very near future. In fact, I think we do right now with canaan or perhaps cbear subject to (hopefully) some discussion about why he would be so willing to invite us to kill him.

Kraftster wrote:Well, assuming CBear3 is being completely disclosing about his role (I have my doubts), he basically provides nothing alive that he can't provide dead. In addition to having an automatic distrust of independents' role descriptions, it doesn't make sense to me that Cbear's spirit lives on "to continue to assist the village." He is not aligned with the village, so I wonder what possible interest he can be looking to serve from the grave.

Overall, the detailed role seems to be inviting us to kill him a lot more than most other independent role claims -- even going so far as to say, basically, "I'll still help you guys if you kill me." I am skeptical of CBear and somewhat leery about killing him until we talk this out.

He could be an independent that wins or gains power if he gets lynched, which makes it a difficult read.

once the independent has been revealed to the village, it is their best interest for longevity in the game to pander to the village. if the independent can prove worth to the village, they stay alive. its the independent's only chance at any type of survival.

shafnutz05 wrote:Canaan actually came in fourth on the Rylan voting, so I can actually see some credence to the vote for him. He voted for Rylan shortly after Redwill did, so perhaps he waited to pull the trigger on the deflection vote until it actually looked like Rylan had a decent chance of acquiring enough votes to be strung up? (i.e., he didn't want to show his hand too early in the process).

It's possible canaan switched from Rylan to Kraftster in anticipation of people looking at the Rylan vote, but the timing seems off. When he changed, there were 6 votes for obhave and 5 for Rylan. Only one more vote would've tied things up and they would've had a chance at saving obhave. Given that, I can't see canaan being red.

I'm going to vote to spear thehockeyguru. He didn't vote on day 1, and on day 2 he jumped in with a canaan vote when voting between EPP and shaf was at 3-3. I know redwill joined in with a late switch from ulf to canaan, but I'm not sure there's much to it.

For me its canaan's vote on Rylan, not his switch. I would have voted for me if I wasn't me based upon MRandall's day 1 comment, so the switch makes sense, I think.

On the other hand, you make a good point that redwill did not lead with a canaan vote. I was thinking his early vote was canaan. I had forgotten that it was ulf at first.