You are here

Pinan Nidan final part bunkai

I am currently looking for a convincing bunkai for the final part of the Shitoryu version of Pinan Nidan. Here is a video of the kata for those unfamiliar:

I am referring to the part on 0:36-0:44 (the angled Shuto Gedans in Shiko Dachi after the 3 Oi Tsukis).

I liked Iain's take on the Shotokan version a lot:

(i.e. being a counter to the armbar applied previously in the kata on 0:24-0:29). Iain also mentions that he has a take on the other styles' version (4:04-4:32 in Iain's video). Unfortunately, it is not covered in this particular video.

Even if I can figure out how a single Shuto Gedan might work (if Tori was able to pull Uke so that his head would be lower), I find it a bit awkward and also hard to fit the following second Shuto Gedan while stepping forward.

Any ideas regarding how this might work? Perhaps a different idea altogether?

My premise is that variations in traditional kata are never a case of right or wrong, but instead variations on a theme or alternate ways of expressing a common principle. In this case, I see the alternate endings to Pinan Nidan (Heian Shodan) as being varying ways counter the arm bar introduced earlier in the kata.

The Shito-Ryu variant moves so the enemy no longer has the advantage of the angle (as per the Shotokan one but at 45 degrees in the case of both tori and uke) and then applies a pressing arm-bar as a counter. This would be the first “shuto” and the shiko-dachi will aid that lock by putting weight into it. This will drop the enemy’s head, so we then step forward and deliver a shuto strike to the base of the skull (the second shuto).

The Shotokan one therefore frees the arm and counter strikes, whereas the Shito-Ryu one counter locks and then strikes. The Wado one also counter-locks, but with a centre lock before slamming the open hand down onto the base of the enemy’s neck. The Tang Soo Do variation also counter locks with a straight arm bar but from cat-stance (less drop, but more pull) … And so on.

The motions of all styles may be subtly different, but they communicate the core principles of avoiding being locked i.e. remove mechanical advantage, get ahead of the lock, take away things needed to apply the lock, etc. Having understood the example provided by the kata, we are then free to apply the principles it illustrates to all locks (I have some good drills for that).

Never easy to explain these things without pictures or video, but it is explained on Volume 1 of “The Pinan / Heian Series: The Complete Fighting System”.

We often use the armbar/strike application that Iain describes for this and the gedan-shuto sequence in Passai. For the more sportive among you, they also work well as a kick-catch takedown sequence, which is fun to work

I have been thinking about this very question a bit recently. I came up with Noah's kick-catch-takedown sequence. The first knifehand blocks and scoops a kick, the second one pries him down. Should work from either inside or outside the leg.

I've wondered this too, although I don't do this version of the kata. I personally found that some of Ryan Parker's work was useful to look at when I was trying to understand this movement. It gave me some new ideas, and perhaps it could do the same for you. Here are a couple of examples:

1. This video shows an application that follows the angled steps (embusen) of the kata:

2. This video shows two applications, starting at 5:40:

Then there is also the matter of applying the turning gedan shuto uke's. I have seen this applied as a takedown, but unfortunately I don't have a video example to show you. It's a relatively simple idea though, and I think it could be something worth considering/experimenting with.

Thanks Iain, very useful and I think I can understand how this works from your explanation.

My pleasure! Some intreating alternatives in this thread too.

Nimrod Nir wrote:

I also find the Shotokan version the best one, being the most simple.

I agree. I find the counter-locking to be satisfying to practise due to the instant karma (“you tried to lock me, but I’m better so you’re the one getting locked!”); but in terms of directness and simplicity, I do like the Shotokan one. Good to train them all of course irrespective of style.

I use the combination of the two shutos (as well as the gedan barai / oi zuki combination) as an answer to being pulled on the shoulder from behind. I give in to the pull, turning into the opponent, and the first technique attacks/locks/traps the pulling arm while the second technique attacks the opponents head/neck/shoulder/kidney, depending on the technique/style.

Unfortunately I have not yet been able to record it. But here is something similar from Jion that might give you an idea. This is when you are pulled, you turn around, and you end up on the outside of the pulling arm (at 2:08 in the video). I think it might work very similarly with the gedan shutos:

I think it works great. Give it a try. Just make sure that when you turn, your first technique attacks the pulling arm at the elbow joint.