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2015 W205 C63 AMG picture renderings

Well, that was fast. Mercedes-Benz AMG just released photos of their AMG package for the new W205 C-Class and renderings are popping up all over of what the next generation C63 AMG will look like based on those photos. The renderings below basically take the AMG bumper Mercedes showed and simply added AMG style quad tips into the rear bumper. The end result is likely accurate although fairly low-key and restrained.

As with the new AMG models, 4Matic all wheel drive will likely come standard. The main question will be whether the power will be routed to all four wheels through a dual clutch transmission or an automatic due to the amount of torque.

The M3/M4 is going to be the better drivers car again. By leaps and bounds looks like.

A little to early to come to that conclusion. The m4 isn't released yet and the c63 will be after that so don't know how your making that assumption. The weight savings reported on the W205 chassis bring it right in line with where the F30 335 is so if AMG applies further weight loss to the c63 from the regular W205 it could be close in weight with AWD and a superior motor.

I really don't think so. It's rear wheel drive, fairly light, and perfectly balanced. The specs BMW has released show it to be incredible.

Originally Posted by ezec63

The weight savings reported on the W205 chassis bring it right in line with where the F30 335 is so if AMG applies further weight loss to the c63 from the regular W205 it could be close in weight with AWD and a superior motor.

With 4Matic I really don't think so. The all wheel drive and MCT Will also have higher drivetrain losses. The M3/M4 will be the better drivers cars again.

I really don't think so. It's rear wheel drive, fairly light, and perfectly balanced. The specs BMW has released show it to be incredible.

With 4Matic I really don't think so. The all wheel drive and MCT Will also have higher drivetrain losses. The M3/M4 will be the better drivers cars again.

Again its way to early to make that statement. AMG could go nuts with the car reduce the weight a big amount have an amazing chassis etc etc at this point nobody knows. And with the regular w205 getting weight reduction to bring it to f30 335 levels don't be surprised if the AMG is further reduced.

The AMG will by far have a superior engine it will have 2 extra cylinders with 33% more displacement and the motor was originally developed for there new super car but will just be detuned in the w205. When tuned this things will have monster power and torque so at that point i see the AWD being an advantage not disadvantage as the M won't be able to hang as cars are modified with more power and traction will be a real issue with RWD. As discussed before MCT doesn't really give up much compared to a DCT and will be a hell of a lot stronger to handle to turbo torque. The paddle delay will most likely be worked out since its a software issue not hardware.
And I'm sure the AWD system will be a performance oriented system with limited slip diffs and torque vectoring to make the car faster. Look at how reviewers prefer the E63 AMG S handling over the RWD f10 m5

AMG could go nuts with the car reduce the weight a big amount have an amazing chassis etc etc at this point nobody knows.

You're essentially hoping for an unlikely scenario. BMW has already stated their curb weight and specs. Mercedes is already not matching the transmission and they will not match the curb weight with all wheel drive. It's simply impossible.

Originally Posted by ezec63

And with the regular w205 getting weight reduction to bring it to f30 335 levels don't be surprised if the AMG is further reduced.

The F80/F82 are lighter than the F30.

Originally Posted by ezec63

The AMG will by far have a superior engine it will have 2 extra cylinders with 33% more displacement and the motor was originally developed for there new super car but will just be detuned in the w205.

The M156 had a displacement advantage that is larger than this one and it didn't equate to much. It needed an optional performance package to exceed the DCT M3. BMW will win the efficiency battle yet again. AMG will be doing the raw power route again.

Originally Posted by ezec63

When tuned this things will have monster power and torque so at that point i see the AWD being an advantage not disadvantage as the M won't be able to hang as cars are modified with more power and traction will be a real issue with RWD.

Why won't the M be able to hang? Lighter, rear wheel drive, DCT. It's almost a repeat of the previous gen.

Originally Posted by ezec63

As discussed before MCT doesn't really give up much compared to a DCT and will be a hell of a lot stronger to handle to turbo torque.

It shifts slower, it saps more power. These are facts. Neither motor will exceed the transmission capacity with just a tune.

Originally Posted by ezec63

The paddle delay will most likely be worked out since its a software issue not hardware.

On the MCT though you have a longer physical delay.

Originally Posted by ezec63

And I'm sure the AWD system will be a performance oriented system with limited slip diffs and torque vectoring to make the car faster. Look at how reviewers prefer the E63 AMG S handling over the RWD f10 m5

That is subjective. I always prefer the feel of rear wheel drive over all wheel drive. There is no getting around the extra weight on the front of the car which contributes to understeer. Another reason why the M3/M4 will again be the superior drivers cars. The C63 is clearly going for raw power. The AMG GT will be more inline as far as how the M3/M4 drive.

You're essentially hoping for an unlikely scenario. BMW has already stated their curb weight and specs. Mercedes is already not matching the transmission and they will not match the curb weight with all wheel drive. It's simply impossible.

The F80/F82 are lighter than the F30.

The M156 had a displacement advantage that is larger than this one and it didn't equate to much. It needed an optional performance package to exceed the DCT M3. BMW will win the efficiency battle yet again. AMG will be doing the raw power route again.

Why won't the M be able to hang? Lighter, rear wheel drive, DCT. It's almost a repeat of the previous gen.

It shifts slower, it saps more power. These are facts. Neither motor will exceed the transmission capacity with just a tune.

On the MCT though you have a longer physical delay.

That is subjective. I always prefer the feel of rear wheel drive over all wheel drive. There is no getting around the extra weight on the front of the car which contributes to understeer. Another reason why the M3/M4 will again be the superior drivers cars. The C63 is clearly going for raw power. The AMG GT will be more inline as far as how the M3/M4 drive.

Not really hoping for anything I'm just stating its a possibility so it makes zero sense for you to make a statement like you already know and its set in stone when it is clearly not.

Right and don't forget there is a w205 coupe coming that will go head to head with the f80 that will probably match it the same way the sedan w205 did the f30.

Lighter? You don't know the specs of the new amg so thats not valid right now or if it is won't be my much.

RWD? Yes well see when these cars get to pumping out over 600 whp with upgraded turbos the RWD will be a big disadvantage the GTR has shown how devastating a good AWD system can be.

DCT? I don't think you have driven a proper MCT car so i don't know where you are getting your conclusion from. Like i said i own a c63 coupe with MCT and its a great trans now with my weistec TCU tune and Valve Body upgrade ill take it over a DCT anyday. My shifts are just as fast as the nissan gtr DCT that my bro in law has and I've had plenty of seat time in even he agrees himself while the MCT has a much more mechanical feel which i love compared the butter smooth boring DCT feel. The only issue was paddle delay which the TCU tune has helped out tremendously and I'm sure AMG will figure out with software next gen. As I've stated when using the shift knob there is zero delay to shifts only when using the paddles behind the wheels which shows me its software. AMG claims MCT shifts in under 100ms with my TCU/ Valve Body its even quicker so believe me its giving up nothing to a DCT.

Not really hoping for anything I'm just stating its a possibility so it makes zero sense for you to make a statement like you already know and its set in stone when it is clearly not.

I'm providing my opinion and the conclusion is based on the data available. I believe I'm correct. If you believe I am wrong for some reason that has yet to be supported by any actual evidence that is up to you.

Originally Posted by ezec63

Right and don't forget there is a w205 coupe coming that will go head to head with the f80 that will probably match it the same way the sedan w205 did the f30.

I think the coupe whether it's a CLK again or whatever they call it has the best chance. As it stands, the sedan will not be the better 'sporty' car to drive.

Originally Posted by ezec63

Lighter? You don't know the specs of the new amg so thats not valid right now or if it is won't be my much.

All wheel drive is not confirmed but providing the car does have all wheel drive which I think all evidence points to it will be much heavier. I'm calling 300 pounds at least right now.

Originally Posted by ezec63

RWD? Yes well see when these cars get to pumping out over 600 whp with upgraded turbos the RWD will be a big disadvantage the GTR has shown how devastating a good AWD system can be.

It's a disadvantage from a stop, sure. I prefer roll on racing though and the handling characteristics of a rear wheel drive car. Plus, when I'm on the strip I'm using the right rubber so it really doesn't matter to me much. I prefer lower weight, better balance, power on oversteer, and lower drivetrain losses. All driving is not a race from a stop on the street is it?

Originally Posted by ezec63

DCT? I don't think you have driven a proper MCT car so i don't know where you are getting your conclusion from.

I have driven an MCT car and been a passenger in several going WOT actually. A DCT transmission is flat out superior in shift speed. There is no debate.

Originally Posted by ezec63

Like i said i own a c63 coupe with MCT and its a great trans now with my weistec TCU tune and Valve Body upgrade ill take it over a DCT anyday.

Well I think that is insane but that is your opinion you certainly are entitled to. The fact of the matter is the DCT is the superior performance option with lower drivetrain losses. That is not subjective, it is fact.

Originally Posted by ezec63

My shifts are just as fast as the nissan gtr DCT

No they aren't.

Originally Posted by ezec63

which i love compared the butter smooth boring DCT feel

I don't know where you are getting this from but my DCT transmission on the highest shift mode is borderline violent. But I own one and have had more seat time.

Originally Posted by ezec63

AMG claims MCT shifts in under 100ms with my TCU/ Valve Body its even quicker so believe me its giving up nothing to a DCT.

I'm providing my opinion and the conclusion is based on the data available. I believe I'm correct. If you believe I am wrong for some reason that has yet to be supported by any actual evidence that is up to you.

I think the coupe whether it's a CLK again or whatever they call it has the best chance. As it stands, the sedan will not be the better 'sporty' car to drive.

All wheel drive is not confirmed but providing the car does have all wheel drive which I think all evidence points to it will be much heavier. I'm calling 300 pounds at least right now.

It's a disadvantage from a stop, sure. I prefer roll on racing though and the handling characteristics of a rear wheel drive car. Plus, when I'm on the strip I'm using the right rubber so it really doesn't matter to me much. I prefer lower weight, better balance, power on oversteer, and lower drivetrain losses. All driving is not a race from a stop on the street is it?

I have driven an MCT car and been a passenger in several going WOT actually. A DCT transmission is flat out superior in shift speed. There is no debate.

Well I think that is insane but that is your opinion you certainly are entitled to. The fact of the matter is the DCT is the superior performance option with lower drivetrain losses. That is not subjective, it is fact.

No they aren't.

I don't know where you are getting this from but my DCT transmission on the highest shift mode is borderline violent. But I own one and have had more seat time.

Yes i believe you are wrong because you are making a statement like its set in stone when only 40% of the information is available.

You are calling 300 pounds its could be 500 it could be 15 pounds we just dont know thats my point.

WHen talking about really high horsepower cars traction can still be a problem from a 2nd gear roll and the awd car will hook from anywhere at anytime. Reminds me of some guys asking for 70mph rolls lmao

Believe me I know what im talking about your link just shows me what ive read over and over a long time ago. Again i never said the MCT was a superior performance transmission just for me its great and I love it. With the feel its gives me vs a DCT (only had extensive seat time in GTR DCT) i prefer it to my style of driving. Your link shows the nissan gtr has a claimed shift speed of 100ms and MCT is rated at under 100 ms and even faster with my TCU tune/ Valve body.

Like i said i didnt claim it was the better performance trans. Lets see the MCT is under 100ms with my upgrade ill be conservative and say 80ms thats .08 of a second. The fastest DCT system like in bugatti and PDK can do it in 8ms or .008 seconds. So if my 60-130 was 7.96 with 2 shifts it would be 7.82 with the fastest DCT in the world. Ive seen people get better time gains after changing from a stock filter to a K&N filter lol. So again my preference is to eat the extra .15 seconds through 2 shifts and make up for it by throwing another 10 hp at it and than overcome it with a $#@!load more power all while having a stronger more mechanical trans that gives me a better tactile feel. I will emphasize this IN MY OPINION so you can tell me whatever you want and throw out a bunch of numbers and stats its not changing my mind. HAPPY NEW YEAR time to get fkin wasted

Yes i believe you are wrong because you are making a statement like its set in stone when only 40% of the information is available.

That's fine. The available information supports me. It isn't a dream about the C63 somehow equaling the F80 M3's weight which it won't.

Originally Posted by ezec63

You are calling 300 pounds its could be 500 it could be 15 pounds we just dont know thats my point.

But we know the curb weight of the M3 and we know what the CLA weighs. Is the C63 going to be lighter than the CLA? It would have to be to get close to the M3. With all wheel drive it is going to be heavier and by a few hundred pounds at that.

Originally Posted by ezec63

WHen talking about really high horsepower cars traction can still be a problem from a 2nd gear roll and the awd car will hook from anywhere at anytime. Reminds me of some guys asking for 70mph rolls lmao

You ask for a 70 mile per hour roll when you have serious horsepower. That much power isn't a laughing matter.

All wheel drive isn't as much fun to drive which is the point. If all you want to do is drag race from stoplight to stoplight by all means go get an all wheel drive car.

Originally Posted by ezec63

Believe me I know what im talking about your link just shows me what ive read over and over a long time ago. Again i never said the MCT was a superior performance transmission just for me its great and I love it. With the feel its gives me vs a DCT (only had extensive seat time in GTR DCT) i prefer it to my style of driving. Your link shows the nissan gtr has a claimed shift speed of 100ms and MCT is rated at under 100 ms and even faster with my TCU tune/ Valve body.

With your comments on shift speeds I strongly disagree. It's a night and day difference between the speed of a dual clutch and the MCT. If it wasn't, I'm pretty sure the SLS would have an MCT and not a dual clutch.

Originally Posted by ezec63

Lets see the MCT is under 100ms with my upgrade ill be conservative and say 80ms thats .08 of a second.

This is ricer math at its finest. You think you just shaved 20ms? You just estimated that out of thin air? Come on now.

Originally Posted by ezec63

The fastest DCT system like in bugatti and PDK can do it in 8ms or .008 seconds. So if my 60-130 was 7.96 with 2 shifts it would be 7.82 with the fastest DCT in the world.

It will basically pick up a tenth on you at every shift. That's 1 car length per shift. Even if you are making more power you can still lose. The DCT makes the most of its power. It is the superior performance option, period.

What about Mercedes claims that the W205 will the lightest car in the segment?

Mercedes claims are regarding its four cylinder with a manual trans for Europe that isn't even sold here. Just wait and see what the C300 and C400 we actually are getting weigh in at. It's going to be quite a bit.

I say at least 300 pounds heavier than the upcoming M3. I don't see how they will get any closer to 3300 pounds than that.

That's fine. The available information supports me. It isn't a dream about the C63 somehow equaling the F80 M3's weight which it won't.

But we know the curb weight of the M3 and we know what the CLA weighs. Is the C63 going to be lighter than the CLA? It would have to be to get close to the M3. With all wheel drive it is going to be heavier and by a few hundred pounds at that.

You ask for a 70 mile per hour roll when you have serious horsepower. That much power isn't a laughing matter.

All wheel drive isn't as much fun to drive which is the point. If all you want to do is drag race from stoplight to stoplight by all means go get an all wheel drive car.

With your comments on shift speeds I strongly disagree. It's a night and day difference between the speed of a dual clutch and the MCT. If it wasn't, I'm pretty sure the SLS would have an MCT and not a dual clutch.

This is ricer math at its finest. You think you just shaved 20ms? You just estimated that out of thin air? Come on now.

It will basically pick up a tenth on you at every shift. That's 1 car length per shift. Even if you are making more power you can still lose. The DCT makes the most of its power. It is the superior performance option, period.

Its not a dream its a big possibility since the regular C class is down to the same weight dont be suprised if the AMG is and if they decide to offer it in RWD as well.

A 70mph roll is ridiculous I wouldnt roll out over 50 max or anything out of 2nd Gear if your car has tractions issues thats something you need to resolve. Im pretty sure the 918 spyder is doing fine with AWD and its def faster when getting to this amount of power by being able to put down the power much earlier through a turn and using torque vectoring to your advantage through the apex. RWD is what I prefer but there is no doubt AWD can be faster when set up properly.

Just because its not RWD or its not an AMG doesnt mean I need to try to put the car down to make me feel better I respect all high performance cars and dont care about brands. It seems like between this and the GTR thread your on an s65/m3 saving crusade. Its all good we know the M3 is bad ass but it doesnt make anything else less worthy.

Ricer Math? Its called an educated guess just as you guess your cars final hp number based on your curve/blower before its starts slipping. You can be off by a bit but you will be close. Its funny how for you its a conservative educated guess but here its "ricer math" The MCT shifts in "under 100ms" could be 95, 92 90 etc its not unexpected to gain under 10% with a mechanical Valve Body upgrade that brings more line pressure and a TCU tune to make it work together. Its a guess i never set it in stone you missed my point about the time comparison to pick on 20 ms.

Ive pulled on DCT cars and got pulled by DCT cars. Both cases the trans didnt make the difference they were decisive wins or losses. As i stated in my previous post its all IN MY OPINION so you cant tell me im wrong. The DCT shifts faster no doubt but everything else like driveability, shift feel, strength, etc over rules that FOR ME maybe not for you. Ill eat my .072 slower shifts and just enjoy being able to run over 700 wheel on a stock trans with great tactile feel. Thats why their are options for people.

Mercedes claims are regarding its four cylinder with a manual trans for Europe that isn't even sold here. Just wait and see what the C300 and C400 we actually are getting weigh in at. It's going to be quite a bit.

I say at least 300 pounds heavier than the upcoming M3. I don't see how they will get any closer to 3300 pounds than that.

Will the m4 have different lighter euro seats that wont be offered in the US? The Carbon Ceramics are also going to be a big money option. Regardless should be a bad ass ride if the c63 isnt offered in RWD doesnt seem like anything else will touch this. Im not really into drag racing ill build my current car with a weistec blower to be the speed demon just want something thats fun to toss around the mountain roads hope they dont run into the heat soaking issues the m5 had.

Its not a dream its a big possibility since the regular C class is down to the same weight dont be suprised if the AMG is and if they decide to offer it in RWD as well.

The regular C-Class ISN'T down to the same weight. The C300 and C400 come with 4Matic standard. How are they the same weight again?

Originally Posted by ezec63

A 70mph roll is ridiculous I wouldnt roll out over 50 max or anything out of 2nd Gear if your car has tractions issues thats something you need to resolve. Im pretty sure the 918 spyder is doing fine with AWD and its def faster when getting to this amount of power by being able to put down the power much earlier through a turn and using torque vectoring to your advantage through the apex. RWD is what I prefer but there is no doubt AWD can be faster when set up properly.

So the guys at the Texas mile with 1500+ whp are ridiculous? I mean ridiculous in a good way. Those cars will destroy just about anything including a 918 Spyder.

Just because its not RWD or its not an AMG doesnt mean I need to try to put the car down to make me feel better I respect all high performance cars and dont care about brands. It seems like between this and the GTR thread your on an s65/m3 saving crusade. Its all good we know the M3 is bad ass but it doesnt make anything else less worthy.

Do you not read what I write? I'm more critical of BMW than anyone. I'm just not picking and choosing based on the badge. From what I see from the C63 it is going to be heavier, automatic, and not as good as a driver's car. That's just based on the released specs from each as of this time. The C63 is going to be mostly a straight line car once again.

Originally Posted by ezec63

Ricer Math? Its called an educated guess just as you guess your cars final hp number based on your curve/blower before its starts slipping.

It's ricer math. You gave yourself 20 ms just because. No proof, no timing, no verification, nothing. It's not a conservative educated guess it's not based on anything other than you trying to somehow get an MCT equal to a DCT which is a physical impossibility.

The most aggressive shift mode provides 100 ms shifts. The fastest auto box is supposedly the IS-F gearbox and it does 100 ms shifts. Reducing shift times another 20ms is a pipe dream and there is no recorded info that supports this. So, you're just guessing based on absolutely nothing:

The centrepiece of the AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT 7-speed sports transmission is the wet start-off clutch, which operates in a sump and replaces the previous torque converter. Thanks to its low rotational inertia, this transmission is extremely responsive and dynamic, with movements of the accelerator immediately translated into motive power. Equipped with four driving modes, the transmission shifts the gears with no interruption in tractive power and provides tailor-made shift strategies for maximum driving pleasure. In "C" mode the gearchanges are comfort-oriented, with "soft" accelerator mapping for extremely smooth progress. In "S" mode the engine and transmission respond much more immediately, with more revs in each gear and faster downshifts. Gearshifts are also around 20 percent faster than in "C". Changing to driving mode "S+" shortens this time by a further 20 percent, while "M" provides the most sporty mode of all: now the 6.3-litre AMGV8-engine responds more sharply, and the transmission shifts the gears 10 percent faster – corresponding to a 50 reduction versus "C" mode. In "M" mode the gearchanges take only 100 milliseconds.

A DCT already has the next gera preselected. There is absolutely no debate here.

Originally Posted by ezec63

Ive pulled on DCT cars and got pulled by DCT cars. Both cases the trans didnt make the difference they were decisive wins or losses.

The trans didn't make a difference? Interesting because my DCT car has beaten several cars with more power thanks to the transmission.

Originally Posted by ezec63

The DCT shifts faster no doubt but everything else like driveability, shift feel, strength, etc over rules that FOR ME maybe not for you. Ill eat my .072 slower shifts and just enjoy being able to run over 700 wheel on a stock trans with great tactile feel. Thats why their are options for people.

GTR's are putting down something like 1500+ whp on a dual clutch now. The M5/M6 is holding big torque. The MCT needs to be upgraded too past a certain level doesn't it?

The shift speed, feel, and driveability of the dual clutch are BETTER than an auto. The shift are also so smooth when set in auto mode you can barely perceive them. It's the next step up. It's better. It's faster.

@Stickyhttp://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests...p?c=26&i=29205
Tobias Moer the new guy in charge of AMG confirmed in a interview with Chris Harris that the next c63 will be a F/I V8 and more importantly a REAR WHEEL DRIVE car with the same electronic LSD from the SLS black series. So as I said before way to early for you to be making statements like they are set in stone. The regular c class is now the same weight as the f30
add in some lightweight AMG parts and it should be close in weight with a much more badass engine. This will be interesting ! If it's rwd I will most likely be getting it and the aftermarket should be killer being turbo with 2 more cylinders and 33% more displacement than the s55 in the m3/m4. Can't wait to see the c coupe/ clk

@Stickyhttp://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests...p?c=26&i=29205
Tobias Moer the new guy in charge of AMG confirmed in a interview with Chris Harris that the next c63 will be a F/I V8 and more importantly a REAR WHEEL DRIVE car with the same electronic LSD from the SLS black series. So as I said before way to early for you to be making statements like they are set in stone. The regular c class is now the same weight as the f30
add in some lightweight AMG parts and it should be close in weight with a much more badass engine. This will be interesting ! If it's rwd I will most likely be getting it and the aftermarket should be killer being turbo with 2 more cylinders and 33% more displacement than the s55 in the m3/m4. Can't wait to see the c coupe/ clk