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Newtek has to step it up for LW to stay as anything but a renderer in these shops.

I only partly agree with you on this. Someone who knows LW inside/out can certanly make use of it for more than just rendering or modeling. My argument here is that even though I have access to Maya as an animationtool, I still can get certain things done faster both in terms of rigging and animation in LW without sacrificing quality. Hence the reason I still throw things at LW at work.

i have to say...I just put about 6 months into learning XSI, just to have another toolkit under my belt to be more marketable. I figured it was a good choice since the ICE thing has been big news in the industry lately. But I have to tell you...in my opinion, and I know I'm in the minority here...I think LW outclasses XSI in almost every way except for the modeler. Just getting something rendered out in XSI, it seems like you have to wade through a ton of menus... same thing with doing particle simulations. I think if NT just revamped the modeler, and consolidated most of the tools into something more like Silo, it would be super competitive again. It has just gotten so bloated over time.

And its funny about how people look down on Wavers. I recently interviewed at a company that was based on XSI. And the animators kind of snickered at me when I said my primary tool was Lightwave. After using XSI for 6 months, I honestly think it should have been the other way around! hehe

Almost every big house have tons of years of custom code applied into Maya to make full use of the toolset and also circumvent apparent issues. Those houses wouldn't even switch to XSI because of all the value they have, and why should they? It works for them. Those are not really a target for NewTek, even though some of them are relying on LW for some of the work.

One apparent problem with Maya is the fact that custom coding is more or less a requierment, even when doing things that LW can do without workarounds (this is something I see daily, btw). For a small studio, it can be costly to have someone come over to write MEL or C to get something to work. So, while those big houses can have a neat workflow in a huge pipeline, doesn't automaticly mean smaller houses or individuals can have the same. Codertalent IS a huge part of those bigger houses success with Maya.

Excellent point Cageman! This is where Autodesk takes big advantage of the situation, marketing vise. They always love to brag that Maya is used in ILM, Pixar and other big studios on feature film production. What they always skip is the fact that Maya never gets used as a all in one CG tool. There is always extensive proprietary code that makes it work in a big studio pipeline. The true story is that Maya mostly gets used for modeling sometimes for rigging and animation and the rest gets done in a very pimped-out version of render man. That gets maintained and constantly upgraded by a on site coding department.

Excellent point Cageman! This is where Autodesk takes big advantage of the situation, marketing vise. They always love to brag that Maya is used in ILM, Pixar and other big studios on feature film production. What they always skip is the fact that Maya never gets used as a all in one CG tool.

The same can be said for LW. Maya does get used as an all-in-one, but only at small houses, just like LW.

Originally Posted by G M D THREE

There is always extensive proprietary code that makes it work in a big studio pipeline.

Which cannot be said for LW, it can't do that. Which is why LW doesn't get the big credits.

Nearly every ad or film we've gotten in the past 3 years needs something 'weird' or 'wow factor' that LW simply can't deliver. Combine that with LW's poor linear workflow and shops that get the demanding sexy highprofile jobs stay away from it.

Agreed but there is still a huge 3D market below the quality and complexity that you guys do. That does not mean that LW should not try to compete with the big guys out there and workflow/pipeline stuff is one area where I would like to see huge improvements in LW.

But this has not that much to do with the total lack of marketing in some areas of the world (e.g. germany) and the possibility to improve marketing everywhere else as well.

Agreed but there is still a huge 3D market below the quality and complexity that you guys do.

That's true, but you don't make your app famous and get kids going to school to learn it just so they can do flying logos. It has a niche, but as far as making it more popular, there's not much to inspire with.

That's true, but you don't make your app famous and get kids going to school to learn it just so they can do flying logos. It has a niche, but as far as making it more popular, there's not much to inspire with.

The problem is that "high" end vfx isn't the end to all. In that regards it's more of a niche than a lot of other CG markets. And probably not the most lucrative either.
Definetely the most important one in getting the word out to the kids though. Supporting (and penetrating) it heavily is thus more of a marketing than a business decision imho.

But, yeah having a strong marketing plan..but it's part of any business plan, usually.

People use the words 'high end' alot..its funny that at one time LW was considered a high end package..hehe. fact is, the other apps simply get more exposure, and wether its in schools or not, thats what the aspiring 3d artist see's, so they figure thats where it's at.

I went to the Art Institute, and while they taught Maya and Max..a number of the instructors were LW users..and even the program director commented that he would have liked to be able to teach it...we had even talked about setting up one machine with it..but that never came about.

People use the words 'high end' alot..its funny that at one time LW was considered a high end package..hehe.

When was that? Even when it cost twice as much as it does now it was considered an entry package... or secret swiss army knife (for those poor semi-pros that couldn't afford an SGI to get their job done).