I have sat in front of the computer for two hours, reading other blog posts, thinking it over, wondering how to talk about it. Maybe I could talk about it in terms of the times I have been in that situation, alone with a much stronger and violent male, and what a man suggesting putting her in that position does to me. Maybe I should talk about it just up to the edge of the extreme and stop with a knowing (virtual) look. Perhaps I could write again about expressions of violence against this person and put Olbermann into a continuum. Or maybe I could just put all the cards on the table and say what is staring us in the face.

What Keith Olbermann said yesterday is not symbolic. He flatly said a (male) Democratic super delegate should take Hillary Clinton into a room, and only the man should emerge.

Keith Olbermann is openly advocating the murder of Hillary Clinton.

We need to say this. It does not preclude talking about the other elements that may be subsumed under that final act, that she would also be battered and raped, but the clear message sent out by Keith Olbermann is he wants someone to murder this woman.

Over the months, I have read various bits of bullshit talking about how "people" are "worried" that Obama might be an assassination target. This is such an obvious line of sensationalistic crap from his campaign to try to create a false aura of danger (Quick! Flock to Barry's defense! Those terrible white racists are gunning for him!) when there has been nothing in the public realm to back it up. Let me be perfectly clear. I think it is probable that there is some nutcase out there who would like to try to assassinate Obama, and I think this because there is always some nutcase out there who thinks killing a public figure is a peachy idea. Or just some nutcase who wants attention - remember the would-be suicide bomber at Hillary's New Hampshire office? However, certainly within the liberal blogosphere and the MSM (I do not venture into the wingnut fever swamps), there is no drumbeat for violence against Obama.

This is not the case with Hillary. I have myself read comments advocating rape and murder. I have read main posts saying she was inciting violent acts against her, or saying they could "understand" the position of those who wished violent harm to befall her, her husband and her daughter. The descriptions of what Obama should do to Hillary verge on the pornographic. Not a day goes by that some prominent voice on the left or in the MSM does not demand her submission, subordination and public humiliation.

And now a major MSM celebrity and talking head, not some anonymous commenter on some obscure blog, has openly and unapologetically advocated that Hillary Clinton be marched into a dark room and murdered.

Think that is too far? A real stretch? Just a tad bit hysterical? Replace Hillary Clinton with Barack Obama in that formulation and you tell me what that means. If someone said this about Barack Obama, it would mean that this man be lynched to remove him from a path to power. Period. Full stop. No equivocations. It would be understood as nothing less than a call for the man's murder, and there would be an outcry from EVERY Democrat, even those of us who do not much care for Obama as a candidate, condemning those words, because that is what we are called upon to do when confronted with evil.

What Keith Olbermann wants done to another human being is evil. It belongs with torture, lynching, and systemic rape. He is saying we should use physical violence against a political enemy to secure the outcome we want. He is saying murder is an acceptable act when done against a reviled outsider by those on the inside who know what is good for the nation. Anyone who chooses to share a sound stage with this man after these words, unless it is to condemn him in the harshest, most ungiving terms, is to put yourself on the side of evil. Any blogger who fails to condemn Olberman for this blunt and unequivocal statement has no business writing a critical word about Bush and Cheney's torture policies, because you would be just cool with it being done to this individual simply to be rid of a political rival.

64 comments:

Whoops, there goes my metaphorical side again. They say that sort of thing all the time in politics, it doesn't mean anything!

I'd sooner die than vote for Barack Obama, thanks to him and his surrogates. Hey, if they can blame Hillary for what her husband did, then I can blame Barak Obama for what his practically paid shill is saying.

As I was reading this post out loud, my husband just said, "irresponsible, inappropriate and a culmination of months of other irresponsible actions by the MSM against Hillary Clinton. KO should be removed from broadcasting."

My blood cold when I heard the comment last night. I laid awake remembering an instance from 1977 where my male boss gave me a "talking to" but first locked his office door before he started his take-down of me (who was 7 months pregnant at the time). I was stunned to have this memory come floating up into my mind, but I remember being scared to death. I was shaking when I left his office...not for my job (that was never an issue), but for my personal safety.

How do we go about getting Olbermann off the air for this travesty?

Thank you for the courage to bring it up. I posted my comment on MyDD this AM and was told I am an idiot.

Thank you for cutting to the chase: Olbermann wants someone to murder Hillary Clinton because she won't get out of the race. How do most of MSNBC's viewers and the MSM allow this to go unnoticed? Why aren't women everywhere turning off MSNBC? Why didn't the NYTimes write an editorial about this rather than make up lies about Hillary and make her into more of a monster in the eyes of people who already hate her for no good reason?

I don't care if there are women out there who are Obama supporters. Does their hatred for Clinton cloud any common sense they have left? You're right. This would not have been tolerated if a Clinton supporter or a Republican like recent Clinton fan Joe Scarborough said the exact same thing about Obama. They would be burned at the stake. Where is the outrage? Have we become desensitized to violence and threats against women? Or is it because people have become accustomed to the excuse that anything goes when it is directed at Hillary Clinton? Unfortunately, too many people still believe that certain women deserve to be raped, beaten and killed. There are certain women who ask for a beating. That is what Keith is implying and what his viewers believe about Clinton. But then you have to ask yourself whether they feel the same way about other women who don't live up to their standards of what a woman should be in their eyes. Does Keith apply the same reasoning to other women who are not complacent to his demands as well?

Another MSNBC sexist pig who should be fired is David Shuster. Big Tent Democrat had the sense to condemn his latest remarks. http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/24/202946/735These guys really don't learn anything from a suspension. They need to be FIRED. Only drastic action will make them think twice before saying things like this ever again.

It's "male-speak," and as much as we don't like it, guys go to these kind of brutal metaphors all.the.time. Keith used to be a sports announcer, and you find this kind of language peppered throughout sports reporting. I'm a Hillary supporter, and I think KO is a clout who is probably closeted---which would explain his "love affair" with the Great One. But thinking that wimpy Keith wants Hillary done away with is too much testosterone for this merlot-drinking Olderman.

If that wasn't a call for violence against a woman, I don't know what is. His comment itself is a violent attack. His rage has been palpable.

It is a bona fide threat, an expression his rage and what he'd like to see happen to her. He'd like somebody MAKE HER go away, stop her, put an END to it, to her. It was no metaphor. There was nothing metaphorical about it, nothing symbolic. Stating with rage that you want somebody to be taken out, disappeared, killed off, stopped dead in their tracks is a clear expression of hostility. It's no quip.

The hostility each day gets worse, and I do fear for her safety.

I will complain everywhere I can about getting this maniac off the air.

I felt sick to my stomach about this. Olbermann ratcheted up the threatening, angry demands coming from men in the media and party that she 'get out'. It has now become "Why can't Obama finish her off?" (CNN) and an outright call to stop her however possible from Keith Olbermann.

It is a threat. He is saying, 'one of you MEN out there in the party get rid of her! However you can. Stop her. End it. and punish her while you're at it.

There is nothing metaphorical about an enraged threatening remark. What is he inferring except a call to end this by physically stopping her since she won't quit?

His threat was an attack in itself, a threat of violence.

Keith Olbermann needs to be taken off the air. He has become a danger to all women with his enraged 'remarks'.

MSNBC has a comments phone line. Call it and tell them what you think of Keith and Howard Fineman's dialogue on retribution against Hillary (being plotted behind closed doors), about her being dispatched by some anonymous source who will take her into a room and emerge alone, and about the "bloody" backlash that's coming because ... well, I don't know why ... they say it's because of her unfair tactics ... I think it's because of their irrational fear and loathing. How else do you explain death threats against a political candidate?

While you're at it, write to GE, who owns NBC and MSNBC. Tell them you're boycotting their products until they fire Olbermann for his sexist threats and implied violence against Senator Clinton.

Write to her campaign and tell them you fear for her safety, and blog about this everywhere you have an opportunity.

Please join me in taking the above action. People like Olbermann should not be polluting the air waves and inciting crazies with his violent fantasies.

It makes me so mad that I can hardly allow myself to think about it. I keep thinking of the early second wave analysis of the metaphors of rape and violence that are used as covert threats against women by writers such as Robin Morgan, Mary Daly, Susan Brownmiller, Kate Millet, etc. I then think of my own students who are argue that feminism is no longer relevant or necessary.

It's fucking horrifying that Olbermann says that sort of thing without recourse.

Violence from a man is something I personally have dealt with in the past. I brought my sons up with the clear understanding that if they ever laid hands on a woman they would have to deal with me. (I divorced the jerk before he could imprint that junk on my boys- one time was enough for me and I moved out the same day. Never looked back.)Olbermann may just have given someone a license to kill. There are plenty of lunatics out there just waiting for an excuse.Wasn't there a king who wished for somebody to get rid of a problem for him and lo and behold- it happened???I have not been watching MSM much- too delusional and too much propaganda for Obama. Post the address and the name of the person in charge and I will write. This is a murder waiting to happen.And where the hell is the FBI and the Secret Service on this????

Summary: On MSNBC Live, David Shuster presented to Tucker Carlson "a Hillary laughing pen" -- a pen shaped in the likeness of Hillary Clinton's head with a mouth that moves as the pen makes a laughing noise. In response, Carlson stated: "I can't tell you, David, how much I appreciate this, how much I appreciate your going through Chris' mail while he's gone and how much I'm really going to miss that cackle. I hope it goes on forever. It's brought light to my life."

You know, I don't even think Keith thought about what he said or believed that it was offensive. This doesn't mean he isn't guilty. But it does show how accepted this type of language is in our society. When men can say this about women and people don't even bat an eye, there is something seriously wrong with our society. I've never had cable television until last September so I never really watched MSNBC until recently. I'm sure the men on that network have said a ton of sexist and violence things before this election but it went largely unnoticed. If Clinton doesn't win the nomination, at the very least she's shed new light on the misogyny which exists in the media, on the blogosphere, and within the progressive community. It's a real eye opener for those of us who thought we were far superior than the right wing. We might have different ideologies but many "liberals" like Tweety, Olbermann, Tom Hayden, and so many others who work for The NYTimes, The Nation, and The New Republic harbor the same kind of ignorance, misogyny, and hatred as the right wing.

Call the Secret Service and demand they investigate. As a former First Lady and Presidential Candidate, Hillary is in their charge. Any public or private threat against her should be investigated by them. This looks to be a crime.

Thank you for posting these remarks. I was disturbed when I heard this report yesterday. Your comments tonight motivated me to write to MSNBC to call for Mr. Olbermann to be fired. I have also sent a similar letter to the DNC. I plan to follow up with a letter to both campaigns. We are supposedly a civilized nation. Invitations to intimidate and violently oppress other individuals cannot and should not be tolerated in any public forum. That amount of energy that was expended over Janet Jackson's wardrobe failure should be infinitesimal compared to the outrage that we should all be expressing that our public airways would be used to incite violence toward any individual, including a public servant.

I will write MSNBC tomorrow and tell them that they need to fire Olberman and Shuster. Olberman is their top rated show, so it won't happen, but I just don't know what to do anymore.

I read Clyburn's comments tonight to the NYT's where he repeats the line that Hillary is willing to destroy Obama if necessary. I'm writing Pelosi, Reid, Dean, Berman, Boxer and Feinstein tomorrow and telling them I won't vote at all in November if Obama is the nominee.

I am offended and mortified that our political leaders have tolerated this kind of misogynist rhetoric. Clearly, women aren't valued in the Democratic party.

Riverdaughter over at the Confluence wants us to write the DNC rather than MSNBC because nothing will be done anyway. The more attention they get the better for them so it is useless. Here is Riverdaughter's explanation along with the addresses for the DNC and the Obama campaign. I doubt Obama will say anything about MSNBC. They are part of the reason why he is still in this race:

Riverdaughter:One more thing: I appreciate the fact that you are willing to take action against MSNBC. But that is not where our leverage is. MSNBC is in business to make a profit. Keith, Tweety and Shuster wouldn’t get away with this crap if it didn’t result in higher profits from increased viewing from their male audience. So, the more you direct your ire against MSNBC, the more likely they are to continue to act out because it gets the MAXIM set all stirred up.No, you want to direct your attention to Dean and especially Obama because they are doing nothing while a respected member of their party is being trashed. Either they consider us equal partners or they don’t. It is now time to find out where Obama stands on the issue. He either leads and sticks up for her or he’s nothing but an opportunistic politician who is comfortable treating his potential female constituents like suckers.Which is it? Why don’t we ask him?

If I were downticket I'd be really concerned about the way this election is heading. It is bad for the party. Maybe "unity" should mean that Democrats are "Unified" in favor of "you do not trash our candidates, whether you like him or her or NOT."

I have heard it said more than once that Republicans would NEVER let Condi Rice or Barbara Bush or any other Republican be attacked this way - not by Democrats, and especially not by other Republicans.

Democrats need to establish rules, and demand that those rules be respected. Rule number one: you do not advocate violence. PERIOD. This is not a one-candidate issue - lynching jokes aren't funny and neither is this sort of spew.

There is a thing that every junior-high boy learns in his path toward manhood. It is a thing that sits latent and unknown as the boy struggles to find his place among other boy-men. It is a knowledge that sits just beneath the surface, an answer to the question we boys kept asking ourselves as we grew up.

How do I gain power and respect among my peer boy-men?

The question was omni-present and the answer loomed just below awareness. I remember when I discovered the answer. I vividly remember striking upon the solution. It was in sixth grade. I was shocked and amazed at its crystalline simplicity. All my peers eventually discovered the solution. We all found, in our own way, how to grow from boy-men into men, how to gain respect and admiration among other boy-men. But there was always a common formula:

Find a girl in school, taunt her, and humiliate her until she breaks down into tears.

This is a very real thing that boy-men do. I did it. All my boy-men friends either did it or were complicit in egging on some other boy-man to do it. It took me about 15 years after my ritualistic passage to realize that this was not a fun game, it was not just an instance of boys-will-be-boys. It took me a long time to understand what this really was.

It was my first step in moving from watching and observing how men and women interact into actually beginning to take part. It was the first time I ever engaged in the female subjugation ritual that is key to ascension from boy-man to man.

It took me 15 years from that act to understand how completely fucked-up it was, how psychologically sinister, how evil that was, how perfectly engineered it was - this whole progression depending on a schoolyard ritual masquerading as just fun & games.

Guys go in different paths after the experience. Some, like me, realize how stunningly awful this was and try to rebuild themselves. Others, I think, feel dirty about their school-yard female subjugation ritual and just try to put it behind them and move on without thinking about it. But there are other men who lust after this experience; they remember it and cherish it. For them, the schoolyard female subjugation ritual remains a key component in how they garner respect and power among other men. Words that subjugate the female become words of continuing power and fascination.

I honestly believe Keith Olberman is of this latter category, and this latest incident is an exemplar. I am deeply creeped out by his comment. This is deep, scary, creepy guy shit.

Thank you for this post. As I rushed out the door today for work I caught Riverdaughter's great piece.

When I finally got home, I expected to see a flood of similar posts. But so far I've only seen your post. Sigh.

I love BTD at Talk Left even if he's wrong about Obama. But it disappointed me that he only went after Shuster today. What Olberman said was far worse.

[Note: I don't mean to bash BTD, far from it. It just struck me that he passed over it.]

Like you anglachel I know the terror associated with domestic violence. It rips apart families and leaves scars for a lifetime. There is no excuse any longer for ignoring it much less promoting it.

It's getting late so I'll wind down now. I'm listening to Hillary's speech to vets in North Carolina. Looking at the strong men surrounding her on stage I can only wish that Olberman would say it in front of them. Obviously that's a cop-out because Hillary can handle and has handled him. Still it would be nice to see him have to deal with really macho men and women.

Finally I don't know where we go next. The DNC seems incapable of shame as does MSNBC.

I wrote a post about it on Tuesday evening, and when I wrote it I was angry and it shows in the article. Frankly, I found it disgusting and was spitting bullets the whole time I was writing and photoshopping his picture.

But lets not forget the other stupidity of that segment which I pointed out besides the threat of violence against Hilary. Mostly, his ignorant comment that "don't people realize that in every one of these states like Pennsylvania and Ohio that Obama has closed the gap after being way behind and given time he would have overtaken Hillary."

My remark was exactly how much time does one need when he's spent close to 12 million dollars, had six full weeks to campaign in, and still lost by double digits. That's how blindly ignorant the man has become. And to think I used to be a fan of his but to my credit, I did tune out a long time ago way before many others did because I began to see what was on the horizon.

Look, he has no journalistic standards as there is. Certainly there is no way to excuse his camaraderie over at Daily Kos where he goes to cop a squat once in a while and is where he got most of the questions to ask Hilary in his interview.

Why is the race in PA always about race? If blacks vote for Blacks, what's that all about? If women vote for a woman, is that racism? Does gender politics become an issue that isn't important enough to even mention. Same thing as Don Imus remark. "Nappy headed 'hoes"... The real insult was the whore comment. The Rutgers team explicitly stated the fact that the insult to them was the 'hoes part of the slur. (AS was Shuster's remark about pimping out Chelsea) (Olberman's remark about taking Hillary clinton into a back room and she doesn't come out), never mind the implied violence directed at a woman, and a Presidential Candidate at that. Why are these remarks and attitudes so dismissed and race is put on a grand pedistal because it seems men can't deal with some women. I could go on, but won't.

I was one of those who gave Olbermann the benefit of the doubt after seeing the offensive film clip but after seeing "Anglachel's Journal" today, I see I was being "too nice."

This has not served me well in my own life and does not serve women in general very well. I have contacted MSNBC about Olbermann yesterday but I now realize I need to ask for him to be "fired." In this day of "sick, random, violence" against anyone for any reason, Mr. Olbermann's comments are unconscionable. He needs to be removed from the airwaves and Mr. Fineman can go with him.

You people are complete idiots, Olbermann was referring to "killing her campaign" not murdering her.if you're too stupid to understand a metaphor in a politcal context, leave on Faux News or whatever reality TV show you rot your brains with.

When Hillary steals the nomination from Obama thru dirty politics, media culpability and thecloset racism of americans, you can all thank yourselves for 4 more years of Republican hell, and the misery it will bring this country. Hillary is pandering liar, look at the facts, her votes her doubletalk. Olbermann is the only one on television that tells the truth about the Bush administration and you want him gone?, says alot about Hillarys supporters another reason why a Hillary nomination destroys the Democratic party, Just what the GOP wants-

No Sheriff - I say we are not idiots. These words carry much more latent and implicit power than you realize. Even the Supreme Court ruled many years ago that Freedom of speech does not permit one to yell "fire" in a crowded theater.If you think it's just women, put "old person", "person of color", "illegal immigrant" - anyone from a "one-down" class vis a vis white men into that rant instead of Senator Clinton and you will get the kick in the gut that is driving the emotions of the commentators above. You won't know that feeling unless you have been in a one-down position - have you?

When I first read this, I decided that there was no way that I would comment. After all, as a man, there's no way I can really understand your perspective, no matter how hard I try. We can empathize with other people, but unless we have the same life experiences, we're probably not going to completely understand.

But then I realized that it works both ways, and decided that as unwise as it might be, I wanted to make a comment.

You're argued rather eloquently for several months that Hillary is the best candidate for president. You've said that she's ready to take on the other Democratic candidates, John McCain, the Republicans in Congress, big business, and foreign leaders. In other words, that she's qualified and ready to be the leader of the most powerful country on earth.

I agree that Hillary is smart, capable, and a strong woman. But in this case, you are turning her into a victim, and I think to the extent that you are successful, that it diminishes her.

If Olbermann had made the same comment about two male candidates, no one, and I mean no one, would have taken umbrage. No one would have suggested that he was advocating murder.

If Hillary Clinton is really ready to compete on an equal level with men (and I think she is), she can't also claim to be a victim for being a woman. I think she understands this. As far as I can tell, she has not commented at all on Olbermann's remarks.

Part of running for president is taking the criticism and insults that come at you. People who can't make substantive go for the easy and obvious insult.

But make no mistake, if she were a man, people would still find petty and obvious insults.

With Bill Clinton, they said he was fat and made fun of his proclivity for eating Big Macs. They called him "Bubba" and "Hillbilly" because he was from Arkansas.

John Edwards was called a "pretty boy" and people criticised his expensive haircuts.

Obama is called arrogant and aloof. People suggest that because of his ability to make a good speech, that somehow he must really be shallow.

In Hillary's case, the handiest insult is to call her a bitch, or make fun of her laugh. That doesn't demean her, it demeans those who don't have enough intelligence or imagination to make a substantive criticism.

What I'm fumbling to say is that making Hillary a victim is counter-productive. People may feel sorry for victims, but they don't elect them to be their leaders.

Uh, Hank - Keith Olbermann tried to make her a victim, not us. We're coming to her defense. I think it's damn convenient of you to label coming to her defense as making her the victim. So typical of guys - set everything up so that she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

Oh, and your comment about nobody getting upset if he had said this about another man is just retarded. Of course that would be ignored, b/c man-on-man rape is not a realistic threat men face in the world.

First did anyone else ge an official looking survey packet from the Dem Party?

Yes - let's not pussy foot around. Keith has been violent in his language [just watch his body] when he speaks of Clinton. He had a whole rant where he ordered her to quit. He certainly sounds as if he wants to kill her [or gin someone else up to do it.]

I stopped watching him after that and just let his advertisers know my feelings. Now he has really gone too far, but where is the sterm and drang from the media? And to think Jack Cafferty is being defended for saying something nasty about the Chinese.

Thanks for selflessly stopping by and offering your advice. You say "making Hillary a victim is counter productive."

You go on: ***************I think to the extent that you are successful, that it diminishes her.

If Olbermann had made the same comment about two male candidates, no one, and I mean no one, would have taken umbrage."****************Just curious, were you one of the Obama faithful who headed to the fainting couch after Bill Clinton strung together the words "Jesse Jackson" in South Carolina?

In the wake of Geraldine Ferraro's claim that Sen. Obama was at an advantage in the Democratic primary because of his race, did you share Keith Olbermann's outrage? How did Olbermann put it? - "the vocabulary of David Duke."

I guess it's your sense that had Obama supporters not made the senator into a victim in these matters he would have wrapped up the nomination weeks ago.

There was a very early episode where a Democratic congressman said if the President visited his district, he might not get out alive. After that, Toby (the WH Communications Director) responded to a question about it from a member of the press by saying that the Secret Service investigated all threats, real or imagined, and that he had no comment. (Well, of course he knew where the reporter was going to take that!)

Someone making violent threats against Hillary does not minimize her leadership abilities, capabilities, intelligence, or toughness one damn bit.

According to you, any woman who is victimized by threats of violence is no longer capable of holding public office. Are they also incapable of getting the promotion, getting the raise, getting the deserved recognition, or having custody of the kids either? By your logic, you just need to victimize all women so they can’t succeed.

That attitude (including your attitude) is at the core of all violence against women. Anyone who finds violent threats against women acceptable should be held accountable as an accessory to all violence against women, and should be locked up.

dancinqueen66: You took words right out of my mouth. Hank Gillette is an Obama supporter. Sad that most of them will defend sexism and disenfranchising voters in order to steal the nomination for their Messiah. Don't worry about them. Welcome!

Just got an e-mail from Hillary campaign inviting comment on an op-ed. I responded and added that KO had called for Hillary's murder - quoting what he said on his MSNBC program, and asked that he, KO, be investigated.

And just what in the pluperfect hell is the matter with the gov of Oklahoma?

If Olbmermann or any male journalist said, 'Obama should beat Clinton in North Carolina.' would you think that they mean he should literally beat her?His use of words was inappropriate but saying that he calls for her murder is absurd. And btw anyone who says Obama is only in the campaign because of MSNBC is c-r-A-z-e-e-e-e.

Keith Olbermann: Today's Worst Person in the World". You guys have covered it completely. We raise our daughters to be proud of who they are not to be disrespected like this overpaid blowhard. Words do count.

bNo one said Obama is still in the race because of MSNBC. But the MSM has damn well made it much easier for him haven't they. Can you imagine Obama still in the race if they had exposed Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers before Super Tuesday? No one will ever know the answer to that but I'm sure those revelations would've made a difference in a few states.

Also, saying someone can beat their opponent in a race is different from implying that someone take their opponent in a room and beat them. The word takes on two totally different meanings. Do I really need to explain this to you?

cutepeachpanda I watched this live last night and I didn't see the meaning that most do now. I actually think that it is now only being watched in the context as being a misogynistic quip.And about the MSM. I think there is a perception that Obama cannot win because of Rev Wright and Ayers etc. But, let's be honest, that is a perception that only holds water if we think voters are so dumb that they use guilt by association, which is McCarthyism at its finest. It is fine to say Obama is not experienced enough or that you don't like his policies. But come on. Bill Clinton did some pretty bad things in the WH and he even commuted the sentences of two Weather Underground members. Should we blame Hillary and say she uses poor judgment by not only being married to Clinton knowing full well what he did? I would answer no. By your logic, yes?

Hi,Thank you for this post Anglachel. It's so important to speak the truth, and so courageous when we live in a world that takes for granted male violence against women.

Yesterday I saw something so disturbing in the comments section of a Politico post. It was an animation of Hillary with her mouth wide open, making a sucking motion. Underneath it said "Suck it'. Of course this is an intimation of oral rape.

I am still upset about seeing this. I can't afford it but I sent $100 to Hillary. Because I'll know she'll do everything she can to help women and girls be safe. She's a fighter!

Keith Olbermann should be thrown out of his job.He is the biggest hateful example of a man. In fact, next time he shows the worst person in the world, he better show himself as the worst person in the world.He should be charged for murder. I hate his guts!Tomorrow I am donated $100 to Hillary's campaign.

I said this earlier but I'll say it again: Doesn't Tweety, Olbermann, Dowd, Herbert, and all the Obamabots on the web realize that the more they make us angry the more we hate their candidate and the more money we donate to Clinton????

If they wanted to defeat her all they had to do was play nice. Not all of us started this campaign hating Obama and his supporters. But we suddenly realized that if we didn't band together and create our own safe havens like The Confluence and No Quarter, we would have NOWHERE else to go to express our support for Clinton. Everyone except for the Republicans on MSNBC are fair to Clinton. DKos and TPM have also forced us to seek refuge elsewhere with their hateful language. Slowly we began to harden to Obama's message of "unity". I mean, how can THIS be unity? Is this the type of CHANGE we want? Change as in shitting on the first viable female candidate for president, making fun of her, and calling her supporters typical, bitter, uneducated white trash?

Now the Obamabots come to our websites. The safehavens we created after being harassed and exiled. How dare you come here and tell us to shut up? If you want to visit a pro-Hillary site at least respect the views expressed here rather than mock us and put our comments up on your site so other Obamabots can criticize and call us names. RIDICULOUS.

Keep it up assholes. I sent more money to Clinton after PA and I'll send her more again. You'll have to put up with us until the convention and you only have yourselves to blame.

So, Hank, you're saying that if a newscaster said Obama should be taken out back to the tall oak tree, no one would blink an eye?

No, that's not what I'm saying, and your vile insinuation that I am is contemptible.

Why don't you try comprehending what I said rather than twisting it to fit your sordid imagination?

This country has an ugly and shameful history of lynching black men and boys for such serious crimes as being "uppity" towards a white woman. To suggest that a black man be taken out back to an oak tree would immediately be an obvious reference to lynching.

There is no such history with the comments Olbermann made, as tasteless as they may have been. Only the people who see every criticism of Hillary as misogyny have interpreted his comments as advocating violence.

cutepeachpandaYou need to be able to tell the difference between Obama supporters and Obama. If I had to vote for many hateful Hillary supporters I would not vote at all. As it turns out I will vote for Hillary in the General [if she gets there] because I like her and her stance on the positions. I know full well if she wins that it will be her not her supporters who will occupy the White House.

Matt: I do see the difference between Obama and his radical supporters on the web. I don't like either of them. Obama is ridiculous as well. The race baiting, the sexist remarks, the acceptance of misogyny on networks like MSNBC, his arrogance...there is more. I agree with everything Anglachel has had to say in the last several months. If you want our perspective on things, read her previous posts. Obama to me stands for nothing but lies. I don't see him as a unifier or a change agent. He is the establishment candidate. I am also disgusted with the DNC, Dean, Pelosi, Brazile, Richardson, Kerry, Kennedy, and many more.

I don't think you're going to convert any of the regular posters here. There is a reason why more than 50% of Clinton supporters in PA said they were unwilling to vote for Obama. No, it's not because of racism. Not all of us are racist, uneducated hicks.

This is akin to saying someone would take Obama out behind the barn and not come back. Everyone in America would know it was the image of a lynching. Woman feel this every time we think of taking a walk after dark in ANY neighborhood. For blacks it may be "driving while black" but women it is "walking while female."

"There is no such history with the comments Olbermann made, as tasteless as they may have been. Only the people who see every criticism of Hillary as misogyny have interpreted his comments as advocating violence."

Millions of women have been abused - physically, mentally and emotionally - behind closed doors. There needn't be a wink or a nod for us to understand the implication of Olbermann's words.

It's probably one of those...if you've not walked a mile in our shoes, you can't possibly know. But it would be nice to know that at least you can respect our reactions for what they are.

Olbermann crossed a line. It wasn't Obama who did it. But it was an Obama supporter who has a mic and the ear of millions of Americans. I sincerely hope that a sicko didn't hear those words and decide one day to take action.

cutepeachpandaI never, ever called someone opposed to Obama a racist. So please don't play that card.I am not here to convert anyone to Obama. I am simply asking for there to be a reasonable intelligent approach to this whole thing rather than just a mob mentality. It is amazing to me how much hate there is. As soon as Obama became a true contender the opinions on him went two ways - love him beyond reason / hate him beyond reason. Are people that dumb? Suddenly Obama is a liar, a woman hater, a racist, etc. You should note that in the PA exit polls 67 percent of voters saying Hillary attacked Barack Obama unfairly - so let's not try to bend polls to our side.

matt: This is the last time I'll address you because you just don't get it. You don't respect what any Clinton supporter here has to say. We have been reasonable and intelligent. Your comments here suggest we aren't being reasonable and intelligent but in fact "dumb". That is your opinion. But my question is why are you here?? I have been coming to Anglachel's site since January. This has been a great place for Clinton supporters to come without having to defend their positions. If we wanted to argue with Obamabots we can go to HuffPo, DKos, and TPM. If you have read ANY of Anglachel's posts in the last sevearl months you would realize that she has a very reasonable perspective on this election. No one on here called Obama a woman hater. That is your assumption. You just have a problem with anyone who dislikes Obama. First why don't you go over to an Obama supporter and start resolving the hatred they have for Hillary before telling us what to think.

This is no longer about who one supports in the presidential race. Senator Clinton now has just as viable an argument for the nomination of the Democratic party as Senator Obama. He has not won any of the big or swing states (except his home state) -- why do none of the pundits talk about taking him into a room and getting him to quit?

If anyone DARED to say about Sen. Obama: someone "takes him into a room and only the other one comes out" -- can you imagine the outrage?

This sends a horribly dangerous message to our daughters, mothers, wives and sisters. An act of violence is committed against women every few seconds in this country. Racism is not accepted in polite society, but sexism and misogyny -- hey, go for it! How can we allow this in this day and age? Keith Olbermann rants against her in the most disgusting ways every night. And he is not alone in this. One would never use this terminology about a male politician. Someone would have his head -- why is this man still on the air? "Take her into a room" -- this is certainly an expression with sinister implications -- at the very least, it advocates the idea of "putting a woman in her place." We say we are for equality in this country. I say, nonsense -- not if this behavior is permitted and everyone chuckles and looks the other way. This is not how you speak about a woman. Any woman.

This is as bad as the commentator on national TV who said a couple of months ago "somebody needs to take her behind the barn."

Until we call these people out for what they are doing, we send the message that it is perfectly acceptable to hate, deride and use violence against women.

Olbermann apologized last night. Did you see the look on his face? He could barely get his words out.What an asshole he is. I'd like to get my hands on him and kick his face in. Big jerk, creep, liar, and arrogant bastard that he is. He should be kicked out of TV immediately. This country doesn't need his phony broadcasting. And to think, I used to like him.Wow, was I wrong about him. I hate his guts now.

No, that's not what I'm saying, and your vile insinuation that I am is contemptible.

Hank, Hank. You're being such a victim.

There is no such history with the comments Olbermann made, as tasteless as they may have been. Only the people who see every criticism of Hillary as misogyny have interpreted his comments as advocating violence.

Which alternate universe do you live in? In the universe I live in, "uppity" women get taken into rooms and beaten into submission all the fucking time, one of my sisters among them.

What gets me is Imus got thrown out of his job for his racial remark to black girls. Olbermann should get thrown out for the sexist remark he made regarding Hillary. When it comes to race, WATCH OUT you may get punished for it. NOT when it comes to women, though. It appears you can say anything about a woman - any sexist remark you want. Not so when it comes to race. And furthermore a racist means whites and blacks, not only blacks. As far as Olbermann, he is nothing but a turd on the street.

Olbermann's apology is no apology at all. It is akin to the wife-beater who has just beat his wife "black and blue" and says, "if you would just stop misunderstanding me, this wouldn't happen to you."

I think the analogies given if the same things were said about Obama are absolutely correct. Olbermann would have been "history" a long time ago.

This man's arrogance is amazing. It's right up there with sociopaths and narcissists who think they can say and do anything if their desires are frustrated or if "God forbid", they think someone has made them angry.

This man needs to go. In our violent society with other "hostile mis-fits" out there just waiting for some excuse to vent their rage on some "unaware innocent" person, Olbermann is a "threat" to our civilized society.

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