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The best thing about racing games is the Vrooming. Now that’s sorted out: There’s a Race On demo available. What is it? More than 600Mb yet less than 700Mb. More specifically, it includes the Racing Event (A weekend of training, qualifying and the all important racing) and Time Attack (Where the nature of temporal existence is undermined by a big old vroom-car). It’s the latest game by SimBin, and it looks like…

Yup, it’s just another expansion pack to a game that has the year 2007 in its title and was itself just a minor update to another title with 2006 in its title. But I guess sim racing is a lot like adventure games and anything is received with open arms by the community. Of course everything is then derided by half the community as worse than which ever of the 3 or 4 other options are their individual favourites. But the simbin game is one of the main ones, and at least in the states they don’t charge very much for each new expansion pack (and also include the base game in case its the first time you’re purchasing it). The steam prices are outrageous though.

GTR is a *sim*, GRID is not. The emphasis in simbin’s titles have always leaned that way rather than the arcade. Ditto the graphics, where fidelity takes higher priority.

I enjoy both equally, and for the reasons of their different design philosophies. One serves as a quick fix for raceyness, while the other provides deep satisfaction through long playtime achievement. Online and off.

The difference, in my mind, is similar to HAWX vs Falcon4. They belong to separate genres.

I belive that when Heliocentric talks about grid he is referring tothe much need options to allow newbies to get into the game rather than the driving model itself, and in that I can certainly agree with him.

I dont, as its defeating the point imho. A sim which is all about car handling and realism is a pretty empty experience if the car handles like a go kart and you are allowed to play bumper cars. (or rewind time). Then you get to the point of having to add gimmicks for the sake of it.
I have absolutely nothing against gimmicks in arcade racers, and I do like a blast from time to time, but I dont see what can be gained by adding them to sims for the sake of it.
In my mind its the same as asking ‘why cant i do mario soccer style special abilities in Pro Evo’

Simbin’s games are too hardcore for me, but I know a few folks who race competitively (at an amateur level), and they are nuts about GTR. Clearly Simbin are doing something right, even if it doesn’t appeal to the mainstream gamer.

The reason I disagree is that the enjoyment derived from each title is totally different. In GRID it is the instant gratification factor of arcade gaming, which is well and good. On the other hand in “sim” titles, like the simbin ones, satisfaction is gained from finishing a 25+ lap race intact in a podium position, perhaps in over an hour, having driven perfectly, in a well tuned car. Most importantly, without any aids. Like rewind.

In fact, the race itself might only take a third of the time investment of an event, after 30 minutes of testing and tuning during the practice time and 30 minutes of qualifying.

I’d like to reiterate, I enjoy both games very much, having completed GRID several times, and invested hundreds of hours in GTR. They’re just not comparable in this context in my opinion.

I’ll get this one for the WTCC 2008 season and Laguna Seca, a long time favorite track of mine.

I understand the inclusion of Muscle Cars for the US market share it might bring, but they still feel like a needless inclusion, as the game has always been firmly focused on the TC discipline, which is primarily a EU sport…

Not comparable? Simbin could stick time rewind in the options menu, or check point rewind replay points.

Racing is linear, doubly so against ai. So being forced to replay elements because the developers think i should seems poor reasoning. The game would not need to handle any differently, certainly not like mario kart.

Its a feature, an option, you can say you wouldn’t use it but do you really believe i am unreasonable for wanting it?

I believe it would detract from my enjoyment of the game if the option were there in any way. For this reason I would specifically want it, and other features related to it, excluded from this and any other “simulation”, racing or otherwise.

The charm in racing simulators is not doing something well one time, it’s getting good enough so you can do it well every time. Not being able to rewind means you can’t push the car over your limits all the time, because that would just mean you’d eventually spin/crash. Racing simulators aren’t for impatient people. If you spin all the time, you are going too fast.

The whole point of a racing *simulator* is to simulate the experience of racing. Until they start releasing racing vehicles with magical rewind abilities, arcade features like time rewind simply have no place in a racing sim. They’re quite nice in arcade racers, but a game whose fun hinges on its realism is quite simply destroyed by an option like that.

I can’t tell if the entire video was in slow motion, or if they’re just accurately modeling these cars and they’re just rather slow (which is plausible, because I remember reading a test drive comparison of the Challenger, Mustang and Camaro, and feeling completely underwhelmed), OR maybe I’m just thinking too fast here, but there is absolutely zero sense of speed in that trailer.

The last good racing game I've played was Forza Motor Sports on the X-Box. No game since then has given me the same options to customize my car nor felt so good in racing. (I played GT3 or whatever and was super disappointed by the ability to customize your car or the lack there of) Does this game allow you to tweak and customize your car like Forza in regard to customizing your cars or is it just straight racing with default car set ups?

I see nowt wrong with sticking a rewind option (toggle-able from main menu) in a sim racer for single player purposes. It's a bloody sensible inclusion to be honest. Forza 3 has it and rightly so – if I've just driven for an hour and a bastard half only to stuff it into the wall and destroy my car on the last lap because my old dear is giving me a ring then thank you kindly Mr Developer. People who get all care bear about this because they enjoy masochism and want to retain a sense of elitism are just being arses. It doesn't detract from their experience as thye can turn it off – the reason they don't want it in there is so that they can lord it over the 'inferior' players who aren't good enough to finish it sans the help. All sim racers have assists to ease you in and that's what rewind is.

In a way the elitists are right, the game is just for them. Especially if the developers don’t care to try and widen their playerbase with obscene things such as “letting people try again”. Personally, i think you should have to earn the money to buy the cars including fuel by playing a sponsor minigame, or better yet simulate menial jobs unless the player can prove they have racing experience in real life, and thus actually get a sponsor.

Because, that would be more realistic. Its a simulator, not the real thing, i can play sturmovik with all the helpers set to “i’m 7 and i like planes”, who am i to tell developers not to turn me away.

This has to be the silliest argument I’ve ever seen on RPS, and that’s really saying something. Why do you want to play this game? There’s a world of arcade and quasi-sim racers out there, go play one of those if you don’t want to play a racing sim. Stop trying to destroy the few small caches of real simulation games left in the world, some of us enjoy things that are realistic. And no “you can just turn it off” is not a sound argument and never will be. If the option is there, the sense of achievement in overcoming obstacles is badly undermined. I guess people that don’t enjoy a challenge can’t comprehend that, but trust me it’s true.

My favorite part, though, is when you and Helio both make this about YOU, despite the fact that this game was clearly not designed for you. We want to play a real simulation “so we can lord it over you” because we’re “elitists.” Get a grip, you’re not that important, we want to play a genuinely challenging and realistic game that doesn’t undermine that sense of challenge and realism by affording the player a bunch of arcade crutches. If you don’t want to play a game like that, don’t play this one. Simple, isn’t it?

Finally, what would be gained by homogenizing EVERY racing game into a quasi-sim GRID clone? I liked GRID too, but I like the variety that exists in the racing market right now. I think it needs MORE variety, actually, with more games that are significantly more realistic than GRID and more games that are significantly more arcadey than GRID. Variety is good, it lets you buy the games that suit your interests and pass by those that are made with a different kind of gamer in mind. Making every game desirable/accessible to every gamer is a recipe for a bland, redundant, soulless gaming industry.

Elitist, masochistic arse is me then. Even though I stated several times that I enjoy both kinds of game, just for different reasons, neither of which are meant as detriment to the other.

It seems to me you are taking all this pretty personally. It’s not like I’m asking devs to please remove the rewind function from GRID. Please don’t demand devs ruin my experience in a game I enjoy.

The only game of it’s kind in the PC sphere worth its salt.

For reference, I don’t play IL-2, as it is neither fish nor fowl. It’s not an arcade game, nor is it a “simulator” as I tend to define it. It does well as a survey sim for most, despite the anti-modding bent of Maddox, but it fares badly as a “true sim” (if there is such a thing). The list of faults is fairly extensive

First off, I like sims plenty. Up until my wheel finally died a death I had very nicely souped up copy of GP Legends on my computer as well as GT Legends, so I am far from sim averse. I fail to see how a rewind option is different from any of the other assists offered by most any racing sim designed to hold players hands a bit while they get used to things. If it’s always on, then fine, I see your issue, but if it’s not then what’s the problem? How is different?

If it’s something that’s turned off from the options menu and therefore not present in the game proper, that’s less obnoxious and no longer a game killer. It’s still incongruous with a sim racer, though, in a way that standard driving assists simply aren’t. It’s a giant break of world, after all, whereas driving aids are fairly transparent.

More than that, though, I still don’t know why it needs to be there. Why does every racing game need to include this feature? Why does every racing game need to accomodate you, specifically? Most importantly, why do you seem to be personally insulted by any game that doesn’t, and any gamer that wants to play it?

I’m not offended by the game per-se. I’m offended by the people who think that any concession (that doesn’t directly affect them) made to people not as talented/skilled as them is somehow a stain on the games character and is utterly unacceptable. Now, if FPS Game 3 Million allows some form of aim-compensation (toggle-able) in single-player then that’s fine, you can turn it off and enjoy the game in your preferred mode. If they leave in it multiplayer then that is more of a problem because it ruins the point on things. If you’re competing against the computer then why restrict things that level the field or open the game up to more people?

If I’m a bit cack handed and am liable to cock up on the last lap, then why should I be prevented from playing your game and enjoying it? Because some people don’t think it’s a ‘pure’ experience and that by including something that enhances my enjoyment without directly affecting them I am somehow corrupting their game.?

Yes, it’s a giant break of the game world and one that you can completely ignore and never, ever use should you so desire. Is choice suddenly not a good thing?

Choice very much IS a good thing, which is exactly the reason that different games have different features to begin with. If you want a game with rewind, you have several to choose from. Why should you be allowed to force that option into games where neither the developer nor the intended audience want it in their game? You already have a choice to play a game that better suits your needs and desires.

Be inclined to agree with you if quality racing games with decent physics were in abundance. They’re not. Sadly, it’s a nice. Am I wrong for wanting them to appeal to the largest demographic. For gods sake, the only rally game I can play right now is DiRT2. A game that’s not even about fecking rallying anymore. I weep for the genre.

Racing is a sport and should be treated like a sport game. You shouldn’t get to rewind time if your team loses a game. Nor should losing be reason to quit or not enjoy the experience. I’ve crashed on the final lap a few times. It’s a memorable experience and heightens the tension in subsequent races.

That's to bad. I like to be able to upgrade each little system on my car to improve it (Say add turbo charger ect or add spolier and adjust it so on and so forth) Just adjusting the internal aspects is nice but I'd like to be able to customize my car down to the rims and still have a driving sim instead of an arcadey game. anyone know a racing game like this?

There are seasons, one-off races, weekend events with varying number of races. It primarily simulates Touring Car races, and includes most elements they represent, i.e. practice rounds, qualifying, 2-3 race rounds. Money and income is not featured, as you drive as a member of one of the (real) teams of the season. The focus is almost entirely on simulating the racing itself as well as possible.

The season mode would most closely compare to the career mode, where you drive the same car during the season, and things like weight handicaps and others are simulated.

For more info I’d recommend reading up on the simbin site linked in the article.

I for one didn't even know there WERE racing games with rewind. It is possibly the stupidest idea I've ever heard of. Why even race? Why not just make a game that races for you or better yet just skips straight to the end with you as the winner?

Grid 3 – when you load it up it goes straight to the credits then deletes itself :P

The problem with the rewind feature isn’t that it’s unrealistic, it’s that it changes the way you play. When you can rewind and fix your mistakes, you get more reckless. You know your mistakes don’t matter much in the end, so you don’t need to be cautious. You don’t need to worry about making that one, fatal mistake that screws up the race. But in a simulator, a big part of the appeal is the danger. The knowledge that screwing up is bad for you. The caution is part of the game. Backing down from an attempt to overtake because getting through the next corner in one piece is more valuable than gaining one position – well, that’s racing. And that’s what a good racing game (not just sims) should be about.

I’m beginning to wonder if this is the reason I haven’t played GRID more, despite broadly liking it. Without the sense of danger and tension, racing games lose most of their appeal. It’s also a terrible feature from a “hand holding” perspective, as it actively encourages sloppy, reckless driving. Once you’re used to it, you’d never be able to win a race without it I suspect.

I actaully have a game pad for my computer so I may try it with that. Would love to have a wheel but I'm a poor gent :)

Given when I said above anyone have any suggestions for a PC racer? I havn't played a racing game in a long time and this post has me interested in trying one out. (in fact I've NEVER played a racer on my PC before) Fuel any good? WHat about Dirt or Grid? I'd like one where you have cash and you have you buy/sell cars but at the same time I like realistic driving and real cars. Forza Motor sports hit the sweet spot for me back on the X-Box but it doesn't have to be exactly like that.

Need For Speed:Shift is the closest thing to a Forza-style game on the PC, although it leans a little more towards realism and a little less towards car collecting and upgrading (although the Car-PG aspect is still very prominent). It was also made by most of the original team that founded Simbin, from the time they were still just a modding team through GTR2 and GT Legends, and uses the same engine as the Simbin titles with some significant enhancements to the renderer and physics.

It might take some fiddling with the control settings (from what I’ve heard, anyway) to get it to work well with a gamepad, but if you want a Forza-style game I think it’s worth it. I’m more of a hardcore Papyrus/iRacing guy but I think Shift is fantastic both for the driving and the presentation.

A for Accelerator, Z for brake and for left right makes keyboard racing doable, but still quite difficult in sims. For arcade games that setup should be good enough, I completed NFS Underground using a keyboard and done a season of Richard Burns Rally, which is a hardcore sim. Found it pretty much impossible to use with simbin games though.

I actually tried racing with keys when the question got asked and found it damn near impossible in GTR:Evolution, which is the SimBin title I play the most. It seemed to work OK with a controller though. You really need the analog potentiometers of a controller or even just a stick for steering in this game.

A wheel is best obviously.

As for an alternative PC racer I’d recommend SHIFT, it’s very nice, and strikes a good balance between arcade and sim, as mentioned. I haven’t had it crash once, unlike the other poster, in 30+ hours of playing, so I suppose mileage may vary. It’s better than GRID in my opinion.

I was trying to customize the keyboard bindings, but the game came up with a lot of “reserved keys”. Now the question is: why there is an option to customize the keys when you can’t customize the keys? …

I ended up getting an older game Test Drive : Unlimited since it was the best racing game I could find that would work on my computer )and this only barely lol( Turns out I freaking love it ! It has all sorts of cars to own, you can buy homes ect and the its set in Hawaii a beautiful location with the entire island to explore strait away. I've been playing the heck out of it over the last few days :) I've already got a Ford GT (B class) Lotus something or other (C ClasS) and a Lamborgini somesortoffast (A Class) and several other lower class cars. I love most of them but some of them I resent having to use like the Mustang which I don't care for :P The Lotus so far is my most favorite car with my D class Masterati being a close second and the Lambo being 3rd.