If Thrall dies, it then is a carbon copy (almost literally) of his own parents story thrust onto his new child. Of the horde being in a dark place and the parents trying to save their people from them selves only to be murdered and leaving the child with out a father/mother
If Aggra dies and thrall lives. Its too similar to Varian and his sons story of their wife/mother dieing, and how he over comes this anguish to lead his people.

Thrall should live.

If anyone should die to thrust the horde into action it should be saurfang. He should die a heroes death. He should come down from northrend hearing how Garrosh has lead his people down the old dark path. Challenge him for leadership and die after putting up a heroic effort. Garrosh then showing his new found power/corruption shocks members of the horde and with the news of one of the great heroes of the horde being killed splits opinion among the horde members specifically the Orcs.

Thrall should've died at the end of the Deathwing fight, sacrificing himself to destroy him. He has lived his purpose. What they did with his character in Cataclysm is just beyond awfull, now everyone thinks he's some kind of Demigod. And basically I wouldn't be suprised if he became one.

Sadly, he's Metzens avatar. He isn't going to let him die anytime soon. If the Blizzard writing staff decide to kill hm off, I already imagine see'ing him raging on his fellow writers.

So you are saying that Thrall's purpose was to kill The Destroyer? That's just dumb. IMO he is the best and most interesting character in this game. From the start and until Mop. The perfect leader, example for every Orc. He is the main Char of Wow, he will never die. Lok'tar Ogar!

The WARcraft argument is as worn out as saying mary sue because you think it sounds clever.

I'd say nobody has paid any attention to the story in mists of pandaria, how things like war and hatred and doubt lead to consequences and your actions being judged for such feelings. Yet, none of that matters when some 15 year old sounds out 'this is world of WARcraft! not Peacecraft!'.

Even when the game developers are telling you outright the theme of this expansion, how WAR is the enemy, you choose to ignore that.

Well, if they are going to take the WAR out of WARcraft after MoP then they're really shooting their own foot imo. It's what the series is about at the core. Besides, negative emotions only affect Pandaria, not the rest of the world. We can have our war elsewhere and at the same time close the Pandaria chapter.

Haven't you guys ever played the Walking Dead videogame? In the game, the main character you play will be very likeable in all the the 5 episodes. He takes care of a little girl he doesn't even know about, but she lost everything, and is still kind enough tot ake her with him.

What happens to Lee Everett (the character you play)? He dies, thats right. It still makes him a very realistic character. Everyone liked him, I've yet to meet someone that hated Lee. And manly tears where shed when he died. But guess what, it was for the greater good. Main characters shouldn't be invulnerable.

The Walking Dead knows great storytelling. The current WoW lore is something I'd tell my kids

I do see your point McNeil but what purpose story line wise does killing thrall serve?

None from what I can see. If anything like my original post stated it will rehash his story into his childs story.

Using Arthas here.

Arthas died, fine he died when we smashed him up. The issue for me was, he wiped out nerzhul (sorry for the horrible spelling I cannot remember exactly :P) when he was "dormant" I was hoping they truly merged into one being with Nerzhul being the more dominant force. My hope was as we progress we somehow purge Nerzhul from arthas and he gets redeemed (don't mind if he dies just as long as we free his soul and all the others claimed by frostmourne) by helping us help over power the lich king.
Still I understand why Arthas died etc just disagree with the path the game/lore took going that way.

Thrall dieing would not make sense and serves no real purpose. We'd need a real reason for him to die to accept it.

If anyone should die to thrust the horde into action it should be saurfang. He should die a heroes death. He should come down from northrend hearing how Garrosh has lead his people down the old dark path. Challenge him for leadership and die after putting up a heroic effort. Garrosh then showing his new found power/corruption shocks members of the horde and with the news of one of the great heroes of the horde being killed splits opinion among the horde members specifically the Orcs.

THIS X 100. Saurfang deserves this. This character deserves an epic death that has a lasting impact. Varok coming to fulfill his promise to Garrosh of ending him before he lets him take the Horde back down the dark path, despite knowing that attacking the younger and more brutal Warchief is a suicide mission, is exactly the thing that the Horde orcs need to turn on Hellscream. Varok can be to the orcs what Cairne was to the Tauren. Let it culminate in the SoO, and maybe even naming a new settlement Varokmar.

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I don't think Thrall should die (Metzen will never allow that and you know it) but I do think he should take a step back from the spotlight after he fixes his mistake of handing the Horde's reigns over to Garrosh. He's got the world to heal, the Earthen Ring to lead and a son to care for.

At this point it's FAIRLY obvious Vol'jin is going to be the next Warchief of the Horde so he'll be free to follow his own path.

Arthas died, fine he died when we smashed him up. The issue for me was, he wiped out nerzhul (sorry for the horrible spelling I cannot remember exactly :P) when he was "dormant" I was hoping they truly merged into one being with Nerzhul being the more dominant force. My hope was as we progress we somehow purge Nerzhul from arthas and he gets redeemed (don't mind if he dies just as long as we free his soul and all the others claimed by frostmourne) by helping us help over power the lich king.
Still I understand why Arthas died etc just disagree with the path the game/lore took going that way.

Arthas didn't make a lot of sense though.

Tirion confirms there's nothing left of his humanity and destroys his heart. Then when we finally defeat Arthas in Icecrown we learn that he DID have some humanity left. Okay, maybe just Tirion being stupid then.

But then Bolvar deceives Tirion into telling the world the Lich King is gone forever, and as he puts on the helm his voice changes. Could it be that Ner'zhul simply got rid of Arthas and turned to a more suitable host? I think that would make for an excellent story. They really made a mistake in ignoring the Ner'zhul side because that's what could've been important lore for the Horde in Northrend.

But this doesn't fit with the novel Rise of the Lich King, where it is stated that Arthas purged Ner'zhul and not the other way around.
It just doesn't add up. I get the feeling that Blizzard didn't know what to do with him completely. Now it turned out rather shitty.

But yeah, Thrall dying serves no purpose. He would become like his parents and his son would become the new Thrall.

Tirion confirms there's nothing left of his humanity and destroys his heart. Then when we finally defeat Arthas in Icecrown we learn that he DID have some humanity left. Okay, maybe just Tirion being stupid then.

But then Bolvar deceives Tirion into telling the world the Lich King is gone forever, and as he puts on the helm his voice changes. Could it be that Ner'zhul simply got rid of Arthas and turned to a more suitable host? I think that would make for an excellent story. They really made a mistake in ignoring the Ner'zhul side because that's what could've been important lore for the Horde in Northrend.

But this doesn't fit with the novel Rise of the Lich King, where it is stated that Arthas purged Ner'zhul and not the other way around.
It just doesn't add up. I get the feeling that Blizzard didn't know what to do with him completely. Now it turned out rather shitty.

But yeah, Thrall dying serves no purpose. He would become like his parents and his son would become the new Thrall.

You nailed it buddy. I feel the same way. I wanted Ner'zhul to be the dominating presence of Arthas/Lich king. Using wrath to explore his past and ofc the alliance side being about Arthas and his fall from grace. Then seeing that theres a part of Arthas left in the lichking the alliance set out to stop the lichking and in doing so Arthas uses whats left of his soul/strength in the final moments to give the heroes of the alliance a chance to stop the lichking.

For the horde they could do it with Arthas helping the heroes out still but with Ner'zhul giving out some kind of dire warning before being banished from the lichkings/arthas body.

So now were trying to justify bad guys in thee actions. well I expected it from you tbh, it seems you have a love for any character with issues.

Nahp.

I've said it before. I love Thrall. I just don't think he should be shoe-horned into another part of this game when he's already taken part in where he didn't belong.

And I know Garrosh is evil following Pandaria. And Arthas was evil following his obtaining Frostmourne. Prior to that, both characters were good guys with the right intentions doing things that were questionably right.

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 03:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by McNeil

The current WoW lore is something I'd tell my kids

Not even. Maybe I'd tell them if they were young enough not to question the sheer plot holes and all around terrible story telling. I'd show my kids Avatar: the Last Airbender (the show). Now THERE'S good storytelling FOR KIDS.

Last edited by Flaks; 2013-02-13 at 03:58 PM.

Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang

"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"

a. Garrosh killing Thrall with some Mogu artifact or sha thing he tries to enslave would be a good way to turn the orcs, who up till now have benefited from a lot of his warmaking, against him (aside from kidnapping random dissenters and beating them up).

b. The Orcs, and to a lesser extent the Horde as a whole need to demonstrate that they can -not turn evil- while they have someone leading them that isn't raised by humans. They need to show they can get along without Thrall to guide them, that there's not something inherently 'wrong' with the orcs that makes them murder everybody.

Because right now that's what it looks like to everyone else on Azeroth.

On the other hand, Thrall's ridiculously strong and even with some kind of artifact it'd be hard to make him being killed by Garrosh believable without making him (Thrall) look stupid or weak, sort of the same thing that happened when Thrall got split in elemental bonds and the other folks present, freaking aspects and malfurion, got stunned like a bunch of idiots by one corrupted druid... Staghelm, powerful as he might've been, it was still poorly executed.

I've said it before. I love Thrall. I just don't think he should be shoe-horned into another part of this game when he's already taken part in where he didn't belong.

And I know Garrosh is evil following Pandaria. And Arthas was evil following his obtaining Frostmourne. Prior to that, both characters were good guys with the right intentions doing things that were questionably right.

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 03:57 PM ----------

Not even. Maybe I'd tell them if they were young enough not to question the sheer plot holes and all around terrible story telling. I'd show my kids Avatar: the Last Airbender (the show). Now THERE'S good storytelling FOR KIDS.

Garrosh was evil before he got to pandaria....

He blew up theramore in the same manner he executed one his generals for in stone talon... Not only that enslaving molten giants, magnataur and other creatures to do his bidding in his war against the alliance. HE did bring in the blackrock orcs who mostly seem to love his view of orc domination.

Thrall belongs in these quests and the issues with the horde as he pretty much RESCUED AND REBUILT THE HORDE when orgrim doomhammer the previous warchief recruited him and made him his 2nd in command and promoted him to warchief upon his death.

Thrall also chose Garrosh as his successor prior to cata. This is very much Thralls problem.