My friend was told RSPCA keep passport during one year loan / trial to ensure both parties are happy with the owner - horse match.Friend was given passport and had to sign final ownership documents once RSPCA were happy the horse had a good home and had come on in the year friend's dd owner her (it was a bit of a project horse, friend's dd more than capable though)

i hadnt realised that but until someone told me however the way both dealerships seem to work appears to be very very different. ive signed up for the newsletter at MySafeCobs, Avril appears to be so very like my instructor in her horsey ways - listening to the horse and natural horsemanship - she seems to keep them for much much longer and seems to get to know them, she also has a much more comprehensive website with much more information and a questionnaire for potential owners - plus i think a waiting list. It all looks way more responsible and professional - she looks like she knows what she is doing with the horses instead of sticking them in an american gag bit and constantly using a whip as is stated on the latest safecob video....2 very different dealers with very similar names.

Well horse training is a matter of opinion. Lia's way of training is similar to all ways I've been taught at various riding establishments. Natural Horsemanship is a whole different world and if that is what you prefer then that is great, but I do think that Lia does know her stuff on training and lots of what she says and does is good (like anybody, not all of it) That being said I'm not defending safecobs or anything like that just stating how different the training methods are.

The problem is, the horses are too young or nervous etc to keep going that way without the constant training which is not what a novice or leisure rider is going to be able to do easily, especially if the horse is sold on quickly without chance to have the training fully established and in place for the future.

Even with Mysafecobs if you see the horses are STILL very very young and again will not be suitable in the long run for a real novice or someone who lacks confidence.

With that in mind Vicar, I would say your best bet is to listen to your RI and you'll probably find a better suited horse, likely an older model who has got all the t-shirts and what not and will probably be cheaper. It is what I have been suggested time and time again by RI's I know for a first horse and then once you have the experience you can go on to buying younger horses if this is what you choose.

thanks serena - i will certainly be relying heavily on RI when i buy - i just rather liked the whole natural horsmanship idea - from what ive seen on the mysafecobs most of the horses (and there arent many for sale at any one time i notice) do seem much older than on safecobs and seem to have a much slower turnaround - it just looks much more professional. Id be interested in going for a look but its a long way from me i think - that said so is safecobs. Avril at MySafecobs just talks like my RI which instinctively makes me think she knows her onions.

Dealers are great for some people, especially people new to owning horses for the security they can bring etc, but since you have such a trusted RI that is willing to give you all of this advice, you'll be able to find many privately owned horses and lots of other dealers who are close to you with different types of horses as well.

The ones on sale at the moment on mysafecobs are still around 6 years old which is still very young if you're not ready for the training that needs to be done.

Whatever you chose is ultimately your decision and if you want to go down the Natural Horsemanship route then you can do that. For me, I don't like it and as I said before I do think Lia at safecobs has a lot of her training right and she does know what she is talking about (it's just sometimes as with anything things can go wrong)

Vicar, just for you...I wasn't going to post this (not wanting to drag mysafecobs into anything) but since another thread has bitten the dust , I saw this on the mysafecobs facebook page and it made me think they probably have the right attitude! here The first comment underneath says "A very cruel bit, still being used sometimes nowadays by cruel or ignorant people!!!."

thanks pixel i have spent the day ogling mysafecobs and have found the FB page - her videos are much more insightful and show much more of her training process - not just showing a hack out on a "finished" cob like the safecob ones - it looks a very different set up and i like the look of it. I would go and have a look there i think, my spidey sense dont tingle looking at Avrils site. And on her site there is a diary of an owner of a pony called Briar - read it and weep....i was really touched by it - i think Avril at mysafecobs takes horses and retrains them if they have been mishandled or just show fear.

Thanks serena - all noted and i will continue to research locally too, but even my RI has been duped before now, even with all her experience. its a flipping minefield out there.

I don't know that there is any "safe" place to buy from as such - unless you are lucky enough to know the horse already. Even then, different horses can behave differently for different people.

I bought a spooky 4 year old from a dealer for my first horse . Doubtless lots of people thought I was nuts but didn't like to say so... 2 1/2 years on he is not perfect, and we have certainly had our moments, but I wouldn't part with him for anything - though I do threaten him with a swap or going for burgers when he's being an idiot!

A friend meanwhile bought what sounded like a better bet - a 10 year old from a private home - ended up selling him a year later as he had intractable issues that affected her enjoyment of her horse (he hated schooling, didn't like hacking alone).

Hello. The only way. To have a safe bombproof horse is to get in contact with Claire smith-mortiboys. She trained with buck branaman I think that's how you spell it. We were recommended her. She assisted us with finding firstly a pony for our daughter then a horse for me. I don't know how she knows but she can tell what a horses personality is. Just from head photos. I had lessons as did my daughter. And I reccomend her to anyone interested in rid

Serena talks a lot of sense . Although sometimes a young horse that has never learnt a bad habit can be better than an older one whose learnt all the tricks! That said, it then becomes about ensuring the young horse continues to have good experiences and that takes the right owner.

NH is a bit trendy for me. When you look at it, large parts are just common sense but I find some of the circus tricks elements of it a bit daft. When I bought my first horse, my vet who was really old school (ex Min of Ag) said "treat your horse like a large educationally subnormal child". It's the best bit of advice I ever had. Don't humanise them, don't expect them to apply logic or reasoning, do expect them to need firm boundaries and to need to know who the herd leader is (that's you by the way!). I'd been riding since childhood when i got my horse in my twenties, but soon realised that riding and owning were very different things.

"I don't know how she knows but she can tell what a horses personality is. Just from head photos."

Really? Lots of people at the yard have said my horse has a kind eye, a lovely face, he's a darling, you can tell from his face that he's a gentle horse and would never hurt you. Then we ride out of sight and he bucks me off! (Admittedly though he doesn't do that too often or he would be up on ebay!)

There are good dealers out there,my friends use two locally,and have bought several of their horses from them.My gt grandad was a dealer and used to have connemaras brought over from Ireland.He always used to leave them in the field for a few days at home because 'some don't travel well'.Reading between the lines,that meant that some had been doped for the journey or because of problems.He had too good a reputation to risk selling a horse that wasn't right,so would keep them for a while to be sure,then use my mum to test ride them.Only then would they be sold.

I haven't much faith in kind eyes.Our bucking bolter of a pony had a lovely kind eye and was an angel on the ground.She came from a private seller who outright lied to us and had a history of exploding with a child on board.These days I don't believe what anyone says about a horse or pony unless I've seen it with my own eyes.We walked away from a lovely pony last week because the owner wouldn't let us trial her or take her to the nearest village to ride her on the road to see how she was in traffic.

I would also advise that when trying a horse you take it out on a different route to the one the seller wants to go on......many horses can behave and remain calm when it is a route taken almost daily that has become like home to them. Mind you, after my recent bad experience maybe I shouldnt be dishing out any advice lol

well i think i am sold on avril at mysafecobs - just been watching her clips on the website demonstrating natural horsemanship - and listening to the recordings on the feedback from people. She really reminds me so much of my RI. she speaks horse.

also looked at the horses she has in training now- all around 10 yrs old. it looks very very professional and you can just see she knows what she is doing. I will go and visit the school there i think - ive sent her my details, filled in the ownership forms and hope to get on the waiting list.