b)
You should always be in meta form when you're doing Hellfire, because you generate more Demonic Fury than Metamorphosis is draining; resulting in more damage done and less damage taken. I suppose you could pop in and out quickly for Hand of Gul'dan.

well there are many situations where you wont have any df and need to use an aoe, on top of that hellfire does generate good df but its self damage is just bad. also immolation aura is good, but is a massive drain of demonic fury

The Soul Swap change is annoying and completely random. How about they just redesign it for it's original purpose - getting dmg rolling on adds.

Soul Swap (new) - Instant cast, 30 second cooldown. Instantly applies Corruption, Agony and UA to the target and applies the Soul Swap debuff. Soul Swap Debuff - if the unit dies with Soul Swap debuff present, the CD of Soul Swap is reset. Soul Swap is no longer able to be Soul Burned.

... if they need to tweak dmg somewhere to compensate, be my guest. Gives us ability to quick swap to adds, gives us pvp target swapportunities with a cooldown. Takes out one of the most brain dead mechanics in the game - SB:SS.

Immolation Aura doesn't generate any Demonic Fury, it consumes 250 of it (25/s for 10s).

Originally Posted by login

well there are many situations where you wont have any df and need to use an aoe, on top of that hellfire does generate good df but its self damage is just bad. also immolation aura is good, but is a massive drain of demonic fury

Originally Posted by Apero

He is lvl 41, he dont even have immo aura
Why hes posting in the 5.4 dicsussion thread? Who knows.

I argued according to the assumption that the tooltip for the spell/ability would provide accurate and relevant information; nowhere does it state that it consumes 250 Demonic Fury. Poorly designed ability if you ask me, considering it's passive and that you can't disable it, but oh well.

Regarding why I'm posting in a 5.4 discussion thread, why not? You don't need to actively play a class in end-game in order to engage in a discussion about the class, I could still gather information about talents/glyphs/stat priorities and other relevant things about the class and make up opinions and ideas. Unfortunately, in this case, the information presented appeared to be wrong, so I guess my point is moot.

The Soul Swap change is annoying and completely random. How about they just redesign it for it's original purpose - getting dmg rolling on adds.

Soul Swap (new) - Instant cast, 30 second cooldown. Instantly applies Corruption, Agony and UA to the target and applies the Soul Swap debuff. Soul Swap Debuff - if the unit dies with Soul Swap debuff present, the CD of Soul Swap is reset. Soul Swap is no longer able to be Soul Burned.

... if they need to tweak dmg somewhere to compensate, be my guest. Gives us ability to quick swap to adds, gives us pvp target swapportunities with a cooldown. Takes out one of the most brain dead mechanics in the game - SB:SS.

That would remove a huge part of the gameplay; deciding if you should use your shards for Haunt vs SB:SS.

That would remove a huge part of the gameplay; deciding if you should use your shards for Haunt vs SB:SS.

Honestly always having to manually cast your dots will probably be more exciting. I am getting mighty tired of SB:SS. Besides, with the new buff to haunt you would never SB:SS. It would never be a dps increase to do so. Ever.

The Soul Swap change is annoying and completely random. How about they just redesign it for it's original purpose - getting dmg rolling on adds.

Soul Swap (new) - Instant cast, 30 second cooldown. Instantly applies Corruption, Agony and UA to the target and applies the Soul Swap debuff. Soul Swap Debuff - if the unit dies with Soul Swap debuff present, the CD of Soul Swap is reset. Soul Swap is no longer able to be Soul Burned.

... if they need to tweak dmg somewhere to compensate, be my guest. Gives us ability to quick swap to adds, gives us pvp target swapportunities with a cooldown. Takes out one of the most brain dead mechanics in the game - SB:SS.

that would make SB:SS close to pointless and we would only really have 1 thing to use our shards on and thats haunt, making the whole shard system utterly pointless as well, then they might as well remove the whole shard system and haunt have a 8 sec cd unless ofc using soul swap the normal way would copy the dots AND extent the duration of the dots without touching the potential buffed dots, then sure.

We should never have to use Shards on Soul Swap imo. Shards should be Haunt (dmg) or Port/DL/etc (utility). As is, locks NEVER use SB for anything but damage spells. They should give us back some choice, while killing SB:SS.

We should never have to use Shards on Soul Swap imo. Shards should be Haunt (dmg) or Port/DL/etc (utility). As is, locks NEVER use SB for anything but damage spells. They should give us back some choice, while killing SB:SS.

except it would give us less choices and not more but a do agree, we do need more choices with shards.

New harvest life + glyph = 50k Hps with 550 ilvl pve gear on ptr. And not even thaaaat bad damage. I can see some uses during progression where we sacrifice some dps for more survialbility. Way over the top in pvp though.
With haste proccs up you can even get 90k hps, i did 500k selfheal in a little over 5s. This will be fun, but fun means they are going to nerf the shit out of it

i can't believe they're taking away harvest life, that was a big helper in doing good aoe damage as demo, and frankly i loved using it as my aoe for demo since our hellfire still damages us for outrageous damage. now when i do old raids or just pull a big group of adds i have no aoe to use because using hellfire just with adds just kills you instantly without a healer.

i don't even understand why we're getting so many nerfs this class isn't godly in pvp, and pve they're not like the most op class in game.

I think the harvest life change is helpful: as Grubjuice pointed out earlier.

Originally Posted by Grubjuice

Harvest Life was filling two roles now it is only filling one role and that is a good thing.

I really have played only Demonology in MoP (as well as every expansion since launch), but Harvest Life always seemed like sort of a trap talent from a dps perspective. Drain Life should not currently be part of anyone's go-to DPS spell selection, it's used for survival. The goal of Harvest Life was to make it useful in AoE situations, but it's still a DPS loss over your spec-specific DPS spells. If you use it while there are multiple targets, you get a stronger version of Drain Life, but Drain Life was not a great DPS spell to begin with- it was a healing tool (for the current expansion at least). However, some newer warlocks will select Harvest Life and want to use it fairly exclusively during AoE fights, thinking that they're doing great AoE damage. (Yes, it does okay damage and heals you a bit, but it's not optimal for damage.)

For Demonology specifically, Hellfire does more damage and grants at least as many resources per cast time as Harvest Life. The only possible downsides are that it is a 360 degree point-blank AoE rather than one that radiates from a target and the fact that it does some damage to the caster. However, I've always used Hellfire since vanilla WoW and found the damage to be rather trivial. In fact, before the 500% threat tank changes, Hellfire was more dangerous because of how much damage it dealt and the fact that mobs switch aggro targets faster at melee range, not really because of the self-damaging aspect. In its current incarnation, with our relatively giant health pools, Hellfire's self-damage is more negligible than in previous expansions.

I've also never really had a problem with the radius/range of Hellfire, especially given that we can now move while casting it, and both Void Ray and Carrion Swarm are also AoE spells that begin from melee range. I think being able to move while channeling Hellfire pretty much makes it an auto-win over Harvest Life, personally.

In contrast, the new Harvest Life seems really good for the reason that I've always used Drain Life: surviving. Speaking mainly from a PvE perspective, you can often offset a lot of incoming heavy damage by swapping to Drain Life as a filler spell for a few seconds. Going from a 2% max health/tick to 5% (or possibly 5.6% to 6.5% with the glyph) would be pretty impressive I think, before factoring in Demon Armor. Basically, you get the fully-scaled AoE healing power of oldHarvest Life but versus any number of mobs. Yes, it's lower DPS than using Shadowbolt or Soul Fire, but for some fights it is more important to conserve healer mana, at least historically.

Honestly, I'm not sure if new Harvest Life will be my talent selection in 5.4, but with the Soul Leech reduction, it seems fairly attractive and I'm starting to weigh them against each other, which is the purpose of this talent system, no?

Honestly, I'm not sure if new Harvest Life will be my talent selection in 5.4, but with the Soul Leech reduction, it seems fairly attractive and I'm starting to weigh them against each other, which is the purpose of this talent system, no?

i think dark regeneration will be a better choice tbh but ofc harvest list will be an on demand choice, Dark regen wont be due to its cd.

Hypothetically, if you have decent haste and a short-term haste buff to get about 100% haste, you could heal roughly 13% max hp a second (2 ticks/sec) with the Drain Life glyph and new Harvest Life talent. This means you could basically full-heal from 1% hp during Unending Resolve in PvP, before Battle Fatigue. So, realistically, maybe 30 or 40% max health restored while shield wall is up and you're interrupt-proof. Of course, you'll probably just get CCed anyway.

not sure if I missed it, but since the amp trinket is now passive, Prismatic Prison of Pride, Does it just give that small passive bonus to our stats? so if we have 10000 haste, it would end up 11400 haste? INTERESTING

not sure if I missed it, but since the amp trinket is now passive, Prismatic Prison of Pride, Does it just give that small passive bonus to our stats? so if we have 10000 haste, it would end up 11400 haste? INTERESTING

That looks to be the healer version of the trinket, but I think the caster version is also a similar passive now.

Yep, it sounds like they did the math on what % of a character's secondary stat budget a trinket should roughly provide, and simply decided to multiply your existing stat distribution by 14% rather than give you 14% more secondary stats (to put it rather simplistically).

Having the amplification as a proc probably created way too much disparity between burst non-burst damage. The passive 14% crit damage is the most interesting part of the trinket in my mind, as it's fairly unique as far as stats go.