I really didn't mean to get on a soapbox, oldmariner, but it galls me when I see more and more choices taken away from consumers all in the name of profits.

I worked for a corporation for 34 years, when customer service WAS the only goal; I'm not talking about customer support. By the time I retired after 34 years, customer service had definitely taken a backseat to profits. Too many times I saw service outages taken care of the following day, when once everyone available would have been sent in until complete repairs were made.

I got off track in talking about other things besides box or downloading games, but what I've referred to is all included within this topic. It may have happened, but I can't remember hearing of any survey asking how a person would like to buy a game. It has happened that surveys were issued asking about the graphics or design of this or that, but not about how it would be sold.

A person posting in this thread said they were still using dial-up for internet service, as hundreds of others are. I remember how long it took to download something through dial-up lines, and having to download a 400 + MB game is going to tie up the phone line for quite some time. Were I still on dial-up service, I'd want to buy boxed/jewel case games instead of tying the phone line for the better part of the day.

So why can't I still have that choice? Because someone investing in this or that company want their profit as quickly as it can be made. And they don't want anymore money spent in providing the service if it's going to cut into those profits. So, no duplicating machines, no graphic printing, no jewel cases, no middle man, no shipping. Load it onto a server which cost pennies over the usual method of delivery, and you save hundreds or thousands of dollars. All of which can be returned to the investor in the hopes said investor will continue to support the company. And all of this without input from the consumer.

lakecat had released two books I'd love to read. But because they are only available on the Kindle, I'll be unable to read them. I do buy almost all my sci-fi books from Amazon, and have never been given a survey asking my preference in reading format. But it is becoming quite clear it is more desirable to sell books in e-reader format than hard or paper back. So what I may eventually be forced into is spending money to buy an e-reader just to buy a book to read. And it's going to cost me a lot more than what I pay at the moment.

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If something gets your goat, it just proves you have a goat to get.

In US law, the first responsibility of the board of directors of a company, and the CEO, is to increase share-holder value. I think that goes a long way to explain the change in corporate culture you describe Homer6.

Re. e-readers - the books are usually cheaper in electronic form, and I can carry around literally hundreds of books on my kindle. (actually, I have the kindle fire hd which is a mini-tablet, with games, internet, skype, music and video, as well as my books)

We have posted here as well as developers have on the reasons that many new games especially Indie games are not available in boxed form. Life is too short to keep looking up the same threads and posting links time and time again so if you really were interested in the facts, you would search for them. I do not think it will matter because it seems that no matter the real reasons there will always be those that are just set on thinking it's some anti-consumer and greed based maneuver and they will not open their minds to the truth. We have had these threads pop up every few months for the last 6 years and counting and it gets weary to keep rehashing it.

FYI - I took my staff hat for this post. This is my personal opinion...not necessarily those of GameBoomers.

We have posted here as well as developers have on the reasons that many new games especially Indie games are not available in boxed form. Life is too short to keep looking up the same threads and posting links time and time again so if you really were interested in the facts, you would search for them. I do not think it will matter because it seems that no matter the real reasons there will always be those that are just set on thinking it's some anti-consumer and greed based maneuver and they will not open their minds to the truth. We have had these threads pop up every few months for the last 6 years and counting and it gets weary to keep rehashing it.

FYI - I took my staff hat for this post. This is my personal opinion...not necessarily those of GameBoomers.

Ana

It is not a matter of seeking the "truth" or the mindset behind the decision to issue games via box or download. That aspect is not the point of contention.

The bottom line is the consumer is being cheated in the guize of convience and a need for developers to cut costs. Downloading is an excellent way to cut those costs

There is no reason these developers cannot release their games in manner GOG does. DRM and restrictions free. In that way consumers get to keep the product they bought. Has anyone asked why it is Shiny Loot can sell the new BOUT Critters release DRM free?

As it stands now, we consumers are told when, where and if we can enjoy what we bought. In fact under the present direction we are told we don't even "own" what we paid for. That is unacceptable.

In a recent outrage the courts have said you are not allowed to will your Kendle books to your descendents. Really? So all those books you thought you bought are rentals. In fact one book stated on the copyright page it is illeagle to allow someone else to read this book. They have to buy their own. I don't ever loan out these types of books, however in this case I'd make an exception.

Oh, yes they claim it is to protect their intellectual rights which is a load of bunk. There is not a single DRM out there that hackers have not taken apart.

The objection is not the method of delivery it is the contempt for the legal supporter of their product. (I almost said legal purchaser that is wrong)

As long as the public "gets weary to keep rehashing it" That comment serves as enabling the contempt of the consumer. The only option is to continue complaining and refuse to support this scam. Yes the argument against not knuckling under is these poor game suppliers will go out of business. That is a false claim. What will happen is they will learn you cannot treat the people who keep you business with contempt and stay in business. They will come to understand they need us it is not the other way around. If they fail to learn that lesson? Well I guess we support the next best thing. Like I said they me I don't need them

It is like they say in politics, you get the government you deserve. In this case when you submit you keep on submitting.

Unless one is an insider to the delivery aspect of the games, one can not generalize or know what is happening in the background.

One would not know if there are:- background discussion or legal agreement on how a game is to be released from publisher /developer.- know if the game sold by any publisher is legal (DRM or non-DRM). We have seen in the past that the members favorite sites can be embroiled in non-legal snafus and get caught in the middle.- We can only verify that a site we support is legal.

We should not malign a system that is still evolving. You as buyer wants to protect yourself; while the seller wants to do the same on their side.As for those that can sell DRM free games - as I said there can be some legal or illegal aspects that we do not know of.

What is stated above is that best to "let's wait and see" and this topic has been discussed a lot already. Ranting has never been productive or make one be sympathetic to that cause.

I would like to add my thoughts here. I'm getting old and all this new technology is getting ahead of me. I can see it is going to be difficult as we all age and get forgetful and get confused. Right now I can find a book that I own on my shelf and I can pick it up and read it. I can also pick up a game and install it on my computer. I can't imagine how I will be able in the future to figure out how to find a game or a book in the"Clouds" or on a "Kindle". I have enough trouble now finding where I physically put something in the next room never mind trying to find where I stored it in the "clouds" or other invisible storage place! All those passwords to remember or change or find! A nightmare for seniors!

There are password programs to store your passwords encrypted if you need them and you always get an email after you purchase them and I save them in a folder just for game downloads. You can edit the subject lines of emails for easy searching.

You can also make an excel spreadsheet to keep track.

I think it's easier to lose a physical book than it is to lose one stored in the clouds. You always know it's right there.

What are boxed games? I vaguely remember my Grandmother telling me stories about games that came in boxes with all kinds of extras inside...what a unique idea. She also use to tell me stories of an enchanted far away place where these mystical boxed games were created and shipped all over the world by little gnomes or some sort of fantasy creatures. Gramma had quite the imagination. She said the name of this land was called.....Interact. Of course we never believed any of her stories and only thought them to be make believe........right?

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"Don't Hate Me Because I Am Beautiful...There Are Many Other Reasons!"

.....I can see it is going to be difficult as we all age and get forgetful and get confused. Right now I can find a book that I own on my shelf and I can pick it up and read it. I can also pick up a game and install it on my computer. I can't imagine how I will be able in the future to figure out how to find a game or a book in the"Clouds" or on a "Kindle". I have enough trouble now finding where I physically put something in the next room never mind trying to find where I stored it in the "clouds" or other invisible storage place! All those passwords to remember or change or find! A nightmare for seniors!

I completely sympathise Kaki's Sister - my late mother decided to get a computer quite late in life & worked very hard to get her head around using one! There were many phone-calls to myself & also one of my brothers to try & talk her through what she wasn't understanding!

Originally Posted By: BrownEyedTigre

There are password programs to store your passwords encrypted if you need them and you always get an email after you purchase them and I save them in a folder just for game downloads. You can edit the subject lines of emails for easy searching.

You can also make an excel spreadsheet to keep track.

I think it's easier to lose a physical book than it is to lose one stored in the clouds. You always know it's right there.

I don't want to be contentious here BrownEyedTigre but shame on you for just 'breezing through' what you see as 'easy' solutions, to you maybe, but not to Kaki's Sister who's struggling with the modern way - & as for using Excel, are you taking the ****? - the program only comes as part of a Microsoft Office/Business Suite - you maybe able to buy it separately but it's certainly not free & then you need to know how to use it! I just can't believe how horrible your response is to this lady!

Chrissie, first off I know Gerry (Kaki's sister) and I think she knows me well enough by now that she understood I was offering her ways to help her.

As for Excel, being in an office environment for most of my adult life, I use the term Excel as a generic term for any spreadsheet app. It is like saying Kleenex instead of tissues. There is a great alternative to Word and Excel here called Open Office that works well.

I will not apologize nor am I ashamed of offering solutions to someone's issues.

Ana you are one of my favorite people on GB. I think my post was taken too seriously by everyone. I was only trying to point out "in a humorous way" how we seniors look at the new technology!I can laugh at myself no problem! I also know where to go for help when needed on GB. When in doubt I ask Ana!

Well, I for one am having a lot of trouble with all of the new technology. I used to understand the stuff but not anymore. I read most of the posts in glitches, some of which are about game download problems, and I don't understand them one bit!