As a supremely ugly person (not fat-ugly, which can be fixed, but ugly-faced, which cannot be fixed), I have no sympathy for people like this.

Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty? Being ugly. If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face. See how many people take you seriously then.

Have you ever read one of those "Men's Rights" screeds about how male privilege doesn't exist? Your letter reads just like those.

If I was a more cynical man I might say that this recent parade of "women are whiny biatches" articles on Fark (which are, realistically, nothing more than individuals writing crappy blogs and blog-like pages) is little more than a ploy to get the Fark woman-haters riled up for page views.

/ just kidding, you don't have to be cynical to see that's the only point to these dumb greenlights

Unless her name is Marla Hanson she's full of shiat. The world is full of people that have nothing at all going for them, and if we take her at her word she's beautiful AND smart (I read the farking article)? She can shut up and die. Her problems are all her own.

Gergesa:NetOwl: Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty? Being ugly. If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face. See how many people take you seriously then.

This. I think there have been a few articles about how ugly people generally have much more difficulty in life than attractive people.

I'm an ugly woman, and I wasted way too much time thinking that if I was attractive it would solve all my problems, but I've since seen so many men treat beautiful women like raw sewage while at the same time feeling conflicted about their overwhelming attraction to said women, that I don't entirely envy them.

My perfect world would be to have the ability to switch it on and off for about an hour a week. Otherwise, I prefer living life being invisible to most men. It's worth the absence of harassment and sexual assault. Being stared at is definitely a form of harrassment. Men have a very hard time understanding that, but a lot of those same men are also very skittish and defensive if they are forced to interact with women they consider repulsive.

theusercomponent:Obviously she is such a genius that she can't tell the difference between somebody sincerely treating her well and a guy on his best behavior to get at the goodies.

To be fair, having a genius level IQ has nothing to do with common sense when it comes to interpreting people.

I have a few friends that have extremely an extremely high IQ but have absolutely no people skills, and can't interpret other's motivations at all. Think about someone who is autistic. They could have a very high IQ on paper, but be absolutely retarded when it comes to interacting with people and understanding other's emotions and intentions.

Whereas someone might have an average IQ but do extremely well interpreting other people. Like a top salesman. Most probably aren't genius level IQ but they can tell by someone's voice tone, facial expressions, etc. exactly what they want and how to manipulate them.

Or a stripper. They're likely to know exactly what guys want, and how to get money out of them, but most of the ones I've known sure as hell aren't geniuses.

I'm not quite sure why everyone is upset. Yes, some people are deluded, but I'm not sure this woman is.

Some people *are* really attractive. And it is fleeting. If this woman is self-aware enough to acknowledge her weight gain, she might just be self-aware to know that she was hot. And it's not so hard for me to believe that some attractive people, particularly women, find that their physical appearance is the trait that gets the most attention.

A 'genius' level IQ is difficult to define - I can't find an accepted standard. But let's assume she scored well on an IQ test. Let's also assume she has a graduate degree as claimed in the letter.

I'm a fairly normal guy - and in my dating - I can say with 100% honesty, I never cared how smart a girl was. I never cared about how educated a girl was. I never cared about what career goals she had. I cared about how she looked and whether or not I had fun around her. As unfair as that is, it has to be really, really, really hard for a girl who is attractive to find a guy who doesn't care about how attractive she is.

She has a point even if she's whiny and blaming too much of her current bad situation on the looks thing.

Men tend to see women as symbols and not as real human beings, the more so when good looks are in play.

This was a problem for me back when I was young, relatively slender and good-looking compared to most other geeky girls. Geeky guys just saw my external looks and when they saw glimpses of my immaturity, weirdness, insecurity and other issues, they subconsciously turned up their noses, but consciously refocused back on my looks. I could smell that and ran far away.

This gal should work on developing maturity, a sense of humor, get a decent job, and lose 30 pounds and then see where that takes her. Get over the bitterness.

Around 39 I finally found a guy with some emotional maturity and who loves me for being a weirdo, not in spite of it.

randomjsa:If she complained once and let it drop then nobody would have cared.

She farking did drop it. The MRA didn't. I take it you're on the slymepit?

This is also putting aside the fact that she is among the people trying to turn the Atheist movement in to a radical feminist organization and everyone that disagrees with that idea is probably a pervert and a potential creep. This plan failed so now they've moved on to the 'new one' thanks to PZ Meyers. We'll see if that blows up in their faces as spectacularly as I think it will.

NetOwl:As a supremely ugly person (not fat-ugly, which can be fixed, but ugly-faced, which cannot be fixed), I have no sympathy for people like this.

Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty? Being ugly. If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face. See how many people take you seriously then.

Have you ever read one of those "Men's Rights" screeds about how male privilege doesn't exist? Your letter reads just like those.

NetOwl:Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty? Being ugly. If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face. See how many people take you seriously then.

This. I think there have been a few articles about how ugly people generally have much more difficulty in life than attractive people.

Chick, if you can't find a mate just because you gained weight, it's not because all anyone cares about is beauty, it's because either you have no personality, or you're so insecure and have such a chip on your shoulder it drives people away.That or she's just as superficial as the guys who wanted her just for her looks, and completely ignores the decent guys that don't want her just for her looks.I got hit on quite a bit when I was skinny. I still get hit on now that I'm married and overweight. And I have guy friends that wouldn't mind a relationship with me were I single, skinny or not. They're not even ugly trolls believe it or not! So it sure as hell ain't all males that are her problem.

And as far as the ex who obsessed over her weight, that's not because all society cares about is looks, it's because she married a superficial, controlling, abusive, douchebag. I've known plenty of women who were quite beautiful and skinny when young, gained weight when they had kids, and their husbands aren't suddenly mentally abusive dickwads. I was much skinnier when I was younger, and while I wouldn't call myself strikingly beautiful I wasn't unpleasant to look at, and my husband has NEVER done the things she says her husband did. The only comments about my weight are either health related or "hey you'll feel better about yourself if you lose weight." If he really wanted to encourage me to lose weight, he'd take me out hiking and find physical activities we liked to do together or something, not to mention encouraging me to make healthy meals (but he's a country boy and likes rich foods, so he'll take that over worrying about my weight :p).

She may be much more overweight than me, which would indeed lower the dating pool, but it still sounds like a major personality/insecurity problem more than anything. I doubt all the weight came on at once, and she sounds like as soon as she gained any suddenly there was no one for her.

Lose some weight, stop being insecure, get a personality and hobbies, and don't be overly superficial. It's not that hard. There are plenty of guys looking for a woman out there even if she's not physically perfect.

Oh, and I also find it hard to believe that guys were constantly barraging her with cat calls and stuff unless she was dressing for attention. I've been friends with some quite beautiful women, and while they might get comments here and there, unless they dress in something sexy it's not that frequent other than maybe a polite "I just wanted to say, I think you're pretty."

Don't worry your pretty little tits there darling - in a few years nobody will find you beautiful anymore and then you can start in earnest to harvest money from the world's serious people using your genius IQ.

Honestly, I've known "beautiful" women, like modelesque classical beauties, but they don't look like much from across the room. In my experience the women who get the most unwanted attention are slightly chubby chicks with giant tits who wear low cut shirts, with cleavage that can be seen from across the street.

She has "a genius IQ", but can't figure out why strangers, who don't know her, judge her on the one thing they do know about her-her looks, instead of personality and intelligence (which they don't know, because they don't know her).

My name is Lena, and....I like being told I'm pretty. I know, i know...I'm supposed to hate it and complain, but gotdammit, I was not an attractive youth until late high school, and I felt, keenly, the lack of objectification that my more comely friends enjoyed.

I have, as long as I can remember, enjoyed random compliments. They are nice words, and as long as someone doesn't get angry at only receiving gracious thanks in return, rather than accepting their proffered penii, it is pleasant.

She needs to stop taking herself so seriously. That's unattractive as hell.

Hermione_Granger:WhiskeyBoy: Dammit. That should have read "White-hating misandrist racist". My hands got ahead of my brain while typing.Though, I could probably argue the misogyny angle pretty easily as well.

It's ok. It's easy to confuse someone pointing out bad behavior with actually being the one to perpetuate that bad behavior. Kind of like police who blame the people in the bank for not stopping the bank robber.

But I'm not the Patty Hurst of misogyny and racism. Pointing it out does not mean I'm joining in or makes me the prime suspect.

That's your own bias talking and it's fairly common. No YOU must hate white people....because you felt discriminated against. No YOU must hate men...because a lot of men's attitudes about women belong in the dark ages.

See, it must be me. Because otherwise you'd have to examine your own issues far too closely for your comfort. It's much easier just to blame me and make me out to be a biatch for daring to say anything at all.

No. Just no. You see, the thing is, I'm neither racist or misogynistic, and you jumping to those conclusions should be a big red flag to you for your own approach to these issues. I'm old enough to have learned and dealt with life's issues. In fact, I'm probably what most people would describe as average, and boring. You and I both disapprove of racists, misogynists and others in their ilk. You just hate them so much that you see it in everything, and everyone. You've lost touch with the reality of reality.

NetOwl:As a supremely ugly person (not fat-ugly, which can be fixed, but ugly-faced, which cannot be fixed), I have no sympathy for people like this.

Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty? Being ugly. If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face. See how many people take you seriously then.

Have you ever read one of those "Men's Rights" screeds about how male privilege doesn't exist? Your letter reads just like those.

Yeah, but the thing is, being too noticeable comes with what the woman FTFA mentions. Women are objectified. You're getting the short end. She's getting the short end. I'm getting the short end. Guess what? We're all screwed by objectification of women, ugly or pretty. You two don't have opposing problems that can't exist in the same world. You have the same problem.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:Hermione_Granger: I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people.

You're just obsessed with seeing yourself as a victim, aren't you? The funny thing is that I know a black woman who is the diametric opposite of how you portray yourself, so at least someone is out there undoing the damage you cause.

Well, to my credit, like most people, how I am on Fark, and how I in real life aren't exactly the same. Here, like most people, I'm a bit more honest.

That black woman you know - is not being honest with you about what she thinks - about anything - under any circumstances. She doesn't trust you and probably doesn't really like you. Or if she does, it's on the superficial level that most white people get to with black people.

LOL - wouldn't it be funny if I were the black woman you're talking about?

No, I don't see myself as a victim. I honestly go out into the world and try to see people as just people. But then people spout the most ignorant racist claptrap....and that's in person, it's worse online...and I have to wonder...what the hell is wrong with these people?

I'm honestly not trolling. But this is my life experience. For a long time I chose to ignore it. But in this space, I don't. I can't afford to and stay sane. There has to be one place and space in my life where I'm honest with white people about the damage and hurt their racism causes. For me Fark is that space.

And believe me, it's a weird space to choose. I know my comments about racism and misogyny are not appreciated. But then again, I don't like the racism and misogyny that Fark espouses in the name of humor.

But I refuse to stop talking about racism and sexism because they make people uncomfortable or angry, especially when it's the same discomfort and anger I feel being subjected to those sentiments just for wanting to have a bit of fun in my day.

If Farkers want me to stop talking about racism, then maybe they should be less racist. If they want women to stop talking about misogyny then maybe the "go make me a sammich crowd" should go make their own sammich and stop being jerks.

fireclown:Ye Gods, I'm glad I am not a woman. It sounds very complicated.

There's an opt out program for women called Not Giving A fark. Once you've properly installed the attitude, stuff like this isn't a problem. In fact, the attitude seems to send out signals to others to piss off with their rubbish. It works best when you don't have a lot of social contacts you're trying to impress.

Hermione_Granger:I could only explain that stripping a woman down to how she looks - despite her intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, her being - kind of makes you a jerk. She's more than just a pretty face, she's a human being. You're being rude and she's right to be offended.

And stripping a man down to a sentence he said - despite his intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, his being, is what?

I just had this conversation the other day with a man - about unwanted male attention. Guys always seem to think their compliments are always appropriate or desired - and they are very wrong.

"I'm just saying you look nice." or "I'm just telling her she's pretty, what the hell is wrong with that?" "If a woman told me I looked nice, I certainly wouldn't be offended."

I could only explain that stripping a woman down to how she looks - despite her intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, her being - kind of makes you a jerk. She's more than just a pretty face, she's a human being. You're being rude and she's right to be offended.

I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people. People only ever believe what they want to believe.

What the fark happened to Pierce Brosnan's wife? That is nice he sticks by her despite being a major fatty.

Whatever, you should check out Hugh Jackman's wife:

The rumor has always been that she's his *beard*. It's cool that he's Wolverine and all, but he likes doing musicals and Broadway way more than action movies. And I understand him staying in the closet as an actor. I'd support him if he came out, but.. it's hard to tune out a person's sexuality when they're playing a role. Like if Rachel Maddow was in a movie as a straight chick. It's possible, but it's a stretch for the audience. Eventually, some day down the road, this will be less of an issue, but at this point, it's a necessary evil for working actors.

This article made me sad, thinking of all the women I've been with who were only after my money and my virile cock and boyish charm yet rugged good looks.

Usually it was after, say, bringing her to one of my fitness model photo shoots or taking her on a trip to Tahiti in my jet, or right after I had solved a major international crime consulting for INTERPOL by using my 230+ IQ, I'd get the feeling they were not interested in getting to know the real me.

Occam's Disposable Razor:I'm a 5'11" man who weighs 190. A good bit of that is muscle, but I constantly fight not to eat the stuff I want and would like to lose 10 pounds or so. The women pictured can't be that heavy. A 5'2" woman at 190 is very obese, nearly "morbidly" so. That's a medical definition, not just being a dick.

Whatever the technical definition of obesity, and whatever aesthetic perception that carries with it, the women in the pictures are 190. Women carry weight differently. It's not a discussion of what's healthy, it's a discussion of aesthetics. I agree 190 is not at all a healthy weight for that height.With men, since they're built straight up and down, it's more noticable when they're significantly overweight. If a woman puts on weight mostly in her boobs, hips and ass, and then fairly equally in thighs and everywhere else it can throw perception off.

Yes I'm obviously much too overweight in the pic, but people generally underestimate my weight significantly (about 30-40 lbs under). Most people are not good at judging other people's weight. The perception is that someone at my height and the weight in the pic would be round, have fat hanging, and wheeze when they walk, but the fact is I get around just fine, and I can still hike and do normal activities without getting out of breath, even with my arthritis (which is the major factor in my weight gain because it causes general fatigue, which is more of an issue than the pain itself, not to mention tends to cause depression).

Just as an aside, I finally got a prescription for humira which is pretty much a miracle drug for me and others with arthritis. So I've been a lot less tired and more able to get out, active, and distract myself rather than eating, so I'm getting healthier. :)Highly suggest it for people with severe arthritis, but it's an immunosuppressant so shouldn't be used unless you really need it badly, or if you have a compromised immune system already.

Huggermugger:Gergesa: NetOwl: Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty? Being ugly. If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face. See how many people take you seriously then.

This. I think there have been a few articles about how ugly people generally have much more difficulty in life than attractive people.

I'm an ugly woman, and I wasted way too much time thinking that if I was attractive it would solve all my problems, but I've since seen so many men treat beautiful women like raw sewage while at the same time feeling conflicted about their overwhelming attraction to said women, that I don't entirely envy them.

My perfect world would be to have the ability to switch it on and off for about an hour a week. Otherwise, I prefer living life being invisible to most men. It's worth the absence of harassment and sexual assault. Being stared at is definitely a form of harrassment. Men have a very hard time understanding that, but a lot of those same men are also very skittish and defensive if they are forced to interact with women they consider repulsive.

As far as interacting with women goes, I'm happy to share conversation with non-pretty, even ugly women; I think from personal observation that most men are the same way. But I've noticed that the majority of women quickly take on defensive body language with men who aren't tall and athletic, or with guido suave good looks, or wearing the trappings of great wealth. This changes once women are over 40, but the double standard point is made long before then, while the good looks which open up social and sexual opportunities are largely lost.

Men DO pick mates based on looks, but men are paradoxically less sex-minded when it comes to casual encounters. Given that the happiest and most sought-after people sexually are social 'good mixers', I would think that a single person refusing to mix with all types is self-harming maiming their chances when they do meet someone they're attracted to.

Ihaveanevilparrot:poison_amy: In the grand scheme of fatness, sixty pounds isn't THAT much

I didn't see the 60 lb part. That is not big enough to completely eliminate your chance for finding any guy other than feeder fetishists.

Say she's 5'3" which is a little under average height. For an adult woman of that height 130 is a fairly healthy weight - a little over what would be optimal. So 60 lbs would make her 190. Realistically she probably started skinnier than that and doesn't even weigh 190 if she's gained 60 lbs, but I'm erring on the upper side.

This is 5'3" 190, and a woman that actually works out and lifts a little weight would look smaller and more toned. At 5'2" and 190 I'm built about like the 2nd pic, and people also tend to under-guess my weight cuz I'm still active and have muscle tone.http://www.cockeyed.com/photos/bodies/503-190.html

I'm a 5'11" man who weighs 190. A good bit of that is muscle, but I constantly fight not to eat the stuff I want and would like to lose 10 pounds or so. The women pictured can't be that heavy. A 5'2" woman at 190 is very obese, nearly "morbidly" so. That's a medical definition, not just being a dick.

Sounds like she's looking for love in all the wrong places. She consciously (or perhaps not) picks the wrong guy, and when things go south she says ,"Uh huh! See! see!". Meanwhile there a lot of great guys she can't see because she's not looking for the. She gets off on playing the victim.

Adolf Oliver Nipples:Unless her name is Marla Hanson she's full of shiat. The world is full of people that have nothing at all going for them, and if we take her at her word she's beautiful AND smart (I read the farking article)? She can shut up and die. Her problems are all her own.