Can we get something frackin' straight here (this is a response to konchog highlighting certain points in the tantra quote and to "accusations" by other posters) I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT SEX IS SOMETHING THAT IS WRONG OR TO BE AVOIDED! Are we clear now?

As to this:

Heterosexual yogis have it so easy ....

One of the female forms pictured above is not a genetic (XX) woman. Secondly it's not so easy coz many heterosexual yogis do not respect women and thus will gain no Success as outlined by Vajrayogini in the Tantra AND they do not satisfy one of the other important criteria:

...instantly to those who desire the welfare of all beings

And finally, if you (or any of the other aspiring yogis in this thread) bother reading the whole of the Tantra, to which I provided a link, the practices necessary to achieve realisation through this Tantra are nowhere near as simple as "shagging" a "fit bird". I recommend some of the aspiring yogis here to go and read the entire practice, I imagine that the majority of them will quickly abandon any thoughts and wishes of appeasing Vajrayogini or any other dakini for that matter!PS This clause here may also be of interest:

I would suggest that there are people here who have received teachings on union yogas.. who have a different spin on the type of politically-correct overkill you are trying to douse the tantras in. I would be careful not to interpret things without the proper key---> a direct link (Lama) to the oral tradition.... many of the tantras are written in coded language.

That said, I am sure you are right that union yogas do not involve the generic British concept of "shagging a fit bird". However, that's a straw man because nobody here claimed they did.

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

I think that you will find that in the abovementioned tantra the yogi is to go beyond the objectification of all dualising discrimination to the point that not only do they "ignore" conventions laid down by caste and blood relations, but even to the point of going beyond limiting themselves to the satisfying of human female forms. Thus, the yogi, by seeing ALL female forms as Vajrayogini, sexually (and this term is used in the broadest possible sense in the text) satisfies non-human female forms too: demons, nagas, animals, etc...

Say hello to your dakini girlfriend AlexanderS!

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Last edited by Grigoris on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumalthe modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

This is very true, but is it always the case, or do we maybe hope that it is? Why would we hope that it is all coded and metaphorical? Since it will allow us to remain in our safe little (ego-centred) comfort zone. It seems to me that the logic of the Candamaharosana Tantra seems to revolve around the same logic that drives the Ganapuja: a revolt against Brahmanic concepts of the social inferiority and impure or unclean status of women through a "sexual" "indulgence" in everything considered unclean (and taboo) about them and their deification as the zenith of purity and objective value. Yet another (tantric) method to break out of the subjective/relative dualism regarding objects and their innate nature. Pulling the pendulum across to its opposite extreme in order to "force" an objective balance of view.

You are right about getting oral instructions though, but it's not always the case that the oral instructions are "contradictory" to the content of the text.PS Maybe this thread should be moved (or bits of it split off) to the tantra section?

Here's Ven. Yinshun's view of the pure lands of Amitabha and Bhaisajyaguru. He says basically that the western land is for those with renunciation, and the eastern land is for those with a more worldly attitude.

Those who are timid and inferior,Wish to have an easy path to practice.

The Buddha has special skillful meansTo embrace and protect these beginners.

Of these, one of the most specialIs to be reborn in the Most Blissful Land.Blessed by the Power of Amitabha Buddha,They will not retreat from attaining enlightenment.

For those who cannot renounce worldly pleasuresBut wish to attain enlightenment,The Medicine Buddha vowed compassionatelyTo provide a Pure Land in the east.(Yinshun: The Way to Buddhahood, Taking the Easy Path, v. 139-142)

1Myriad dharmas are only mind. Mind is unobtainable. What is there to seek?2If the Buddha-Nature is seen,there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.3Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.4With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,the six paramitas and myriad meansare complete within that essence.

Astus wrote:Here's Ven. Yinshun's view of the pure lands of Amitabha and Bhaisajyaguru. He says basically that the western land is for those with renunciation, and the eastern land is for those with a more worldly attitude.

Those who are timid and inferior,Wish to have an easy path to practice.

The Buddha has special skillful meansTo embrace and protect these beginners.

Of these, one of the most specialIs to be reborn in the Most Blissful Land.Blessed by the Power of Amitabha Buddha,They will not retreat from attaining enlightenment.

For those who cannot renounce worldly pleasuresBut wish to attain enlightenment,The Medicine Buddha vowed compassionatelyTo provide a Pure Land in the east.(Yinshun: The Way to Buddhahood, Taking the Easy Path, v. 139-142)

Oh right, this thread was about sex in purelands That does make sense as the Medicine Buddha fulfills various material wishes.

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.Through the qualities of meditating in that way,Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

Astus wrote:Here's Ven. Yinshun's view of the pure lands of Amitabha and Bhaisajyaguru. He says basically that the western land is for those with renunciation, and the eastern land is for those with a more worldly attitude.

Those who are timid and inferior,Wish to have an easy path to practice.

The Buddha has special skillful meansTo embrace and protect these beginners.

Of these, one of the most specialIs to be reborn in the Most Blissful Land.Blessed by the Power of Amitabha Buddha,They will not retreat from attaining enlightenment.

For those who cannot renounce worldly pleasuresBut wish to attain enlightenment,The Medicine Buddha vowed compassionatelyTo provide a Pure Land in the east.(Yinshun: The Way to Buddhahood, Taking the Easy Path, v. 139-142)

good info though.

_/\_Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung