Major search operation ends with Blackburn boy, 13, found in loft

A MAJOR search and rescue operation was launched after a 13-year-old boy went missing from his home - only for him to be found in the loft.

Around 40 mountain rescue volunteers, along with police, dog teams, and the police helicopter were alerted when the teenager left a note at his Blackburn home.

His frantic parents raised the alarm at around 9.30pm on Friday and an open window suggested he had fled the Worcester Road home.

Officers became concerned for the boy’s safety because the note led them to believe he would come to harm.

He was reported to be wearing only a pair of pyjamas. Police and the family quickly searched the property before requesting help from Rossendale and Pendle Mountain Rescue Team.

A group of 10 team members joined the search and backup was also requested from Bowland Pennine and Bolton Mountain Rescue Teams, Cheshire Search and Rescue Team and SARDA England, the Search and Rescue Dog Association.

Following the initial search of the boy’s home, a ‘thorough’ hunt was carried out at the same time as the search of the neighbourhood.

Door-to-door enquiries were made and residents were asked to search their gardens as the cold and wet night turned into Saturday morning.

The search was called off at 1.30am when police found him in the loft under piles of belongings.

Officers said it was unclear whether he had been in the loft the whole time.

Graham Daly, from Rossendale and Pendle Mountain Rescue Team, who co-ordinated the search, said: “We were contacted by Lancashire Police shortly after 11pm on Friday and they requested us to assist them in locating a missing 13-year-old boy from Blackburn.

“At midnight we met at the Red Lion pub in Whitebirk Road before heading to the scene.

“At that point, I had 10 team members with me but after arriving on the scene, I discovered that we needed additional resources.

“I put calls into the Bowland Pennine and Bolton Mountain Rescue Teams, along with calls to the Cheshire Search and Rescue Team and SARDA England.

“We conducted a search from the house in a 100-yard radius but before we could go any further, it was reported to us that the boy had been found in the attic of his house.

“If he had not been found, I think around 40 people would have joined the search.

“After the boy was found, I stood down the teams that were already on route to the scene.

“When I was briefed on the incident, I was initially concerned for the boy because I was told that he was in green pyjamas and it was horrible weather outside.

“I was concerned that if we didn’t find him soon then it might become more serious than it was at that point.”

A spokeswoman for Lancashire Police said: “A note was left giving immediate cause for concern for his welfare, and a window had been left open suggesting the boy had left home.

“Police and his family searched his home address and simultaneously an area search was carried out by police and mountain rescue.

“Fortunately, the boy was found safe and well around four hours later by a police officer well hidden within the loft of his home address.”

And just what, pray tell, will physical violence achieve, when it is patently obvious to any reasonably minded parent that, this child is wants to escape from something that is going wrong in his life. The root cause of which needs to be found out then resolved, before he repeats this and comes to serious harm.
We should be instilling in children, the confident ability to speak out when a wrong, perceived or otherwise, is being done to them, rather than beating them into a mentally tortured world of silence.
You should know that, abused children turn out to be abusive parents in the future and that anything that can be done now, to improve his life, will bear fruit in the future.
I find myself appalled, that in this day and age, that you even consider sharing (and that several others find themselves agreeing with) your misguided sense of what it is to be a parent.
For over 10 years now, the NSPCC, has been running a campaign to rid this country of child abuse, in all it's forms. So I suggest that you familiarise yourself with it and gain some knowledge to change your attitude.
It is my earnest hope that this young person gets all the help, support and encouragement to get through this period of his life then move on, towards an happier future.

And just what, pray tell, will physical violence achieve, when it is patently obvious to any reasonably minded parent that, this child is wants to escape from something that is going wrong in his life. The root cause of which needs to be found out then resolved, before he repeats this and comes to serious harm.
We should be instilling in children, the confident ability to speak out when a wrong, perceived or otherwise, is being done to them, rather than beating them into a mentally tortured world of silence.
You should know that, abused children turn out to be abusive parents in the future and that anything that can be done now, to improve his life, will bear fruit in the future.
I find myself appalled, that in this day and age, that you even consider sharing (and that several others find themselves agreeing with) your misguided sense of what it is to be a parent.
For over 10 years now, the NSPCC, has been running a campaign to rid this country of child abuse, in all it's forms. So I suggest that you familiarise yourself with it and gain some knowledge to change your attitude.
It is my earnest hope that this young person gets all the help, support and encouragement to get through this period of his life then move on, towards an happier future.woolywords

While I agree, to a limited extent, with Woolywords, the boy needs to face the fact that his "gesture" cost the police a good deal of money, and put a large number of strangers to considerable inconvenience on his behalf.

He (and his parents) need to say a big, public, "Sorry"!

While I agree, to a limited extent, with Woolywords, the boy needs to face the fact that his "gesture" cost the police a good deal of money, and put a large number of strangers to considerable inconvenience on his behalf.
He (and his parents) need to say a big, public, "Sorry"!reps2

woolywords wrote:
And just what, pray tell, will physical violence achieve, when it is patently obvious to any reasonably minded parent that, this child is wants to escape from something that is going wrong in his life. The root cause of which needs to be found out then resolved, before he repeats this and comes to serious harm.
We should be instilling in children, the confident ability to speak out when a wrong, perceived or otherwise, is being done to them, rather than beating them into a mentally tortured world of silence.
You should know that, abused children turn out to be abusive parents in the future and that anything that can be done now, to improve his life, will bear fruit in the future.
I find myself appalled, that in this day and age, that you even consider sharing (and that several others find themselves agreeing with) your misguided sense of what it is to be a parent.
For over 10 years now, the NSPCC, has been running a campaign to rid this country of child abuse, in all it's forms. So I suggest that you familiarise yourself with it and gain some knowledge to change your attitude.
It is my earnest hope that this young person gets all the help, support and encouragement to get through this period of his life then move on, towards an happier future.

I think someone needs educating! The difference between a disciplined tap and it should only be a tap Is a lot different to hitting a child as you suggest! If more parents disciplined their children then our society would be a lot better!

And from your comment, how may I ask, is discipling a child going to stop them speaking out? I discipline my child yet he always speaks his mind. Again, what you suggest is that all parents who discipline are now mentally bullying their children too.

I take it that you either have no children or you do have children, never disciplined them, think their well behaved, but really are proper little sh1ts which every other parent does not want their own children to be like! And believe me, we all know people like that.

[quote][p][bold]woolywords[/bold] wrote:
And just what, pray tell, will physical violence achieve, when it is patently obvious to any reasonably minded parent that, this child is wants to escape from something that is going wrong in his life. The root cause of which needs to be found out then resolved, before he repeats this and comes to serious harm.
We should be instilling in children, the confident ability to speak out when a wrong, perceived or otherwise, is being done to them, rather than beating them into a mentally tortured world of silence.
You should know that, abused children turn out to be abusive parents in the future and that anything that can be done now, to improve his life, will bear fruit in the future.
I find myself appalled, that in this day and age, that you even consider sharing (and that several others find themselves agreeing with) your misguided sense of what it is to be a parent.
For over 10 years now, the NSPCC, has been running a campaign to rid this country of child abuse, in all it's forms. So I suggest that you familiarise yourself with it and gain some knowledge to change your attitude.
It is my earnest hope that this young person gets all the help, support and encouragement to get through this period of his life then move on, towards an happier future.[/p][/quote]I think someone needs educating! The difference between a disciplined tap and it should only be a tap Is a lot different to hitting a child as you suggest! If more parents disciplined their children then our society would be a lot better!
And from your comment, how may I ask, is discipling a child going to stop them speaking out? I discipline my child yet he always speaks his mind. Again, what you suggest is that all parents who discipline are now mentally bullying their children too.
I take it that you either have no children or you do have children, never disciplined them, think their well behaved, but really are proper little sh1ts which every other parent does not want their own children to be like! And believe me, we all know people like that.dean555

Children can be punished without hitting them. My little boy did something very naughty on Sunday. He was punished severely and he will not do it again. But he was not hit.

I am trying to teach him that he should not hit other children, especially not those smaller and younger than him. I can't see how that lesson would be drummed home if I was hitting someone smaller and younger than me when he angered me.

Children can be punished without hitting them. My little boy did something very naughty on Sunday. He was punished severely and he will not do it again. But he was not hit.
I am trying to teach him that he should not hit other children, especially not those smaller and younger than him. I can't see how that lesson would be drummed home if I was hitting someone smaller and younger than me when he angered me.Excluded again

I remember when I was about 12 - it would be 1950 - I called my dad a silly bu**er and got a good hiding for it. I can still remember it clearly, but I have never, ever, used that word, or any other similar word, since. Seems it worked for me...

I remember when I was about 12 - it would be 1950 - I called my dad a silly bu**er and got a good hiding for it. I can still remember it clearly, but I have never, ever, used that word, or any other similar word, since. Seems it worked for me...alphadelta

Don’t make others suffer because of your inability to look after them yourself!

If you can’t look after them ask for help to do so!

Or, get yourself a hobby instead!

If you don’t want children take precautions not to have them!
If you have children look after them!
Don’t make others suffer because of your inability to look after them yourself!
If you can’t look after them ask for help to do so!
Or, get yourself a hobby instead!abetterblackburn

Right, so if someone one the street calls me something I take offence to, or does something that I take offence to, can I give them a "good hiding" as you call it? No I can't. Because that would be illegal. There are better ways to punish someone than to inflict pain on them.

Right, so if someone one the street calls me something I take offence to, or does something that I take offence to, can I give them a "good hiding" as you call it? No I can't. Because that would be illegal. There are better ways to punish someone than to inflict pain on them.CeeBee85

I think we are all missing the point here. How we discipline our children is OUR business and no one else's. Obviously this boy has an issue which he felt he could not discuss or he was attention seeking for a whole load of other reasons. Who knows? What I do know is that, yes, he cost the emergency services a shed load of cash but so do idiot ADULT drunks on a Saturday night. The lad does need speaking to but by whom and in what context is not for any of us to scrutinise.;

I think we are all missing the point here. How we discipline our children is OUR business and no one else's. Obviously this boy has an issue which he felt he could not discuss or he was attention seeking for a whole load of other reasons. Who knows? What I do know is that, yes, he cost the emergency services a shed load of cash but so do idiot ADULT drunks on a Saturday night. The lad does need speaking to but by whom and in what context is not for any of us to scrutinise.;anniehargs

anniehargs wrote:
I think we are all missing the point here. How we discipline our children is OUR business and no one else's. Obviously this boy has an issue which he felt he could not discuss or he was attention seeking for a whole load of other reasons. Who knows? What I do know is that, yes, he cost the emergency services a shed load of cash but so do idiot ADULT drunks on a Saturday night. The lad does need speaking to but by whom and in what context is not for any of us to scrutinise.;

Agree completely. There is something going on with this boy that he and his family need to get to the bottom of. However, he needs to know that his actions have consequences and those consequences cost, in this case, a lot of time and money. At 13, a "good hiding" is pointless (and yes, I do believe a smack has its place if used wisely), but this child is old enough and needs to have the wrong that he did pointed out, loud and clear. Ideally by a senior professional who he has to take seriously. No point his parents doing it, because I suspect he is at the age where parents "just talk rubbish" and should be ignored. In other words, the teenage years....

[quote][p][bold]anniehargs[/bold] wrote:
I think we are all missing the point here. How we discipline our children is OUR business and no one else's. Obviously this boy has an issue which he felt he could not discuss or he was attention seeking for a whole load of other reasons. Who knows? What I do know is that, yes, he cost the emergency services a shed load of cash but so do idiot ADULT drunks on a Saturday night. The lad does need speaking to but by whom and in what context is not for any of us to scrutinise.;[/p][/quote]Agree completely. There is something going on with this boy that he and his family need to get to the bottom of. However, he needs to know that his actions have consequences and those consequences cost, in this case, a lot of time and money. At 13, a "good hiding" is pointless (and yes, I do believe a smack has its place if used wisely), but this child is old enough and needs to have the wrong that he did pointed out, loud and clear. Ideally by a senior professional who he has to take seriously. No point his parents doing it, because I suspect he is at the age where parents "just talk rubbish" and should be ignored. In other words, the teenage years....ladysal

alf-abett wrote:
I sincerely hope a good hiding will be forthcoming, but perhaps not in this day of the PC brigade.

A good hiding... It is 2014 not the 1950s People like you make me want to vomit.

[quote][p][bold]alf-abett[/bold] wrote:
I sincerely hope a good hiding will be forthcoming, but perhaps not in this day of the PC brigade.[/p][/quote]A good hiding... It is 2014 not the 1950s People like you make me want to vomit.Darrens Delivery Service

Where are you you little brat. Thought you could muck around eh. You've made me a talking stock. I'll make a man of yer. Where's my belt?

If you love your children people on this page would choose the very top one. If not go for your belt!

What's up son. You can talk to me. Come on dear lets go for a walk.
on the other hand
Where are you you little brat. Thought you could muck around eh. You've made me a talking stock. I'll make a man of yer. Where's my belt?
If you love your children people on this page would choose the very top one. If not go for your belt!sen c b l

Think the police officers who searched the loft initially need some extra training. If loft was searched properly would if avoided waste of lots of other people and agencies

Think the police officers who searched the loft initially need some extra training. If loft was searched properly would if avoided waste of lots of other people and agenciescrusade to find the truth from the brown stuff

personally this lad should be made to go out with the search and rescue team, so he can see with his own eyes the situations these people have to deal with, he could at the end of the day put some ones life at risk who really needed the assistance of the people who were wasting their time looking for him. gone are the days when the local bobby could drag a kid back home to be dealt with by their parents, no wonder we have the society we have today where youngsters have no respect for their elders. Smacking doesn't solve everything but it never harmed the older generation. Too many do gooders telling us what we can and can't do these days.

personally this lad should be made to go out with the search and rescue team, so he can see with his own eyes the situations these people have to deal with, he could at the end of the day put some ones life at risk who really needed the assistance of the people who were wasting their time looking for him. gone are the days when the local bobby could drag a kid back home to be dealt with by their parents, no wonder we have the society we have today where youngsters have no respect for their elders. Smacking doesn't solve everything but it never harmed the older generation. Too many do gooders telling us what we can and can't do these days.RSPCA Supporter

My parents used to remove all electrical items from my room (TV, games console, phone) and leave me with nothing but school books and a lamp for a set length of time depending on how bad I had been...I would have happily taken a crack and had it done with!

My parents used to remove all electrical items from my room (TV, games console, phone) and leave me with nothing but school books and a lamp for a set length of time depending on how bad I had been...I would have happily taken a crack and had it done with!HelmshoreMan2010

RSPCA Supporter wrote:
personally this lad should be made to go out with the search and rescue team, so he can see with his own eyes the situations these people have to deal with, he could at the end of the day put some ones life at risk who really needed the assistance of the people who were wasting their time looking for him. gone are the days when the local bobby could drag a kid back home to be dealt with by their parents, no wonder we have the society we have today where youngsters have no respect for their elders. Smacking doesn't solve everything but it never harmed the older generation. Too many do gooders telling us what we can and can't do these days.

"Smacking never harmed any-one. Yes it did and I am 62 years of age.Still to this day, I rememer the evil sod that smacked me (Well thrashed) 50 years on.

Did not teach me a lesson, just inspired hatred for that person.

So, on that note, smacking as you call it is not an option in my opinion.

[quote][p][bold]RSPCA Supporter[/bold] wrote:
personally this lad should be made to go out with the search and rescue team, so he can see with his own eyes the situations these people have to deal with, he could at the end of the day put some ones life at risk who really needed the assistance of the people who were wasting their time looking for him. gone are the days when the local bobby could drag a kid back home to be dealt with by their parents, no wonder we have the society we have today where youngsters have no respect for their elders. Smacking doesn't solve everything but it never harmed the older generation. Too many do gooders telling us what we can and can't do these days.[/p][/quote]"Smacking never harmed any-one. Yes it did and I am 62 years of age.Still to this day, I rememer the evil sod that smacked me (Well thrashed) 50 years on.
Did not teach me a lesson, just inspired hatred for that person.
So, on that note, smacking as you call it is not an option in my opinion.Darrens Delivery Service

Well, well, well, if the scoring system here reflects public opinion then we should be lobbying our MP's for the return of corporal punishment in all schools, the repeal of the laws on workplace bullying, the engagement of children in cleaning either in mills or up chimneys.
Perhaps courses for new Mothers, on the proper way to induce shaken baby syndrome; with Fathers being given tuition, on how to improve their backhand techniques, when swinging a belt.
Teachers and health carers should be instructed to mind their own business, if they come across a child whom has had lumps knocked out them or is patently neglected. Police officers encouraged to wade into any fight, with batons drawn and raining blows on both the innocent or guilty, alike? Thus effectively, putting an end to all the social advances that we have made in the last hundred years or so.
Is that the type of society that you propose for the future?
Perhaps I could sue my parents for neglect, since they were clearly were out of step with the majority here, with in turn, me being sued by my own children and grandchildren, for allowing them to stroke a cat rather than been beaten with another type of one!
Am truly thankful to my parents, who instilled in me the belief that, 'violence begets violence' and that 'love will conquer all', when it comes to rearing children. Where a calm, reasoned rationale will discipline (the word means, to teach,) any child, as to what is good or bad behaviour, without using any form of physical punishment.
The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child defines it as, "any punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light."

Well, well, well, if the scoring system here reflects public opinion then we should be lobbying our MP's for the return of corporal punishment in all schools, the repeal of the laws on workplace bullying, the engagement of children in cleaning either in mills or up chimneys.
Perhaps courses for new Mothers, on the proper way to induce shaken baby syndrome; with Fathers being given tuition, on how to improve their backhand techniques, when swinging a belt.
Teachers and health carers should be instructed to mind their own business, if they come across a child whom has had lumps knocked out them or is patently neglected. Police officers encouraged to wade into any fight, with batons drawn and raining blows on both the innocent or guilty, alike? Thus effectively, putting an end to all the social advances that we have made in the last hundred years or so.
Is that the type of society that you propose for the future?
Perhaps I could sue my parents for neglect, since they were clearly were out of step with the majority here, with in turn, me being sued by my own children and grandchildren, for allowing them to stroke a cat rather than been beaten with another type of one!
Am truly thankful to my parents, who instilled in me the belief that, 'violence begets violence' and that 'love will conquer all', when it comes to rearing children. Where a calm, reasoned rationale will discipline (the word means, to teach,) any child, as to what is good or bad behaviour, without using any form of physical punishment.
The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child defines it as, "any punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light."woolywords

I grew up witnessing physical violence and sometimes was on the receiving end of it, fills your heart with hatred, I rebelled big time! All i wanted to do was escape and stay out as much as possible. Its just a form of bullying, having power over someone. How do you explain to a child physical violence is wrong then inflict it on them? Do as i say not as i do? No one knows what has gone through this lads mind, no one knows what difficulties he has, or what he is going through. He should be listened to, but it should be explained to him the trouble he has caused. Totally agree with anniehargs and woolywords

I grew up witnessing physical violence and sometimes was on the receiving end of it, fills your heart with hatred, I rebelled big time! All i wanted to do was escape and stay out as much as possible. Its just a form of bullying, having power over someone. How do you explain to a child physical violence is wrong then inflict it on them? Do as i say not as i do? No one knows what has gone through this lads mind, no one knows what difficulties he has, or what he is going through. He should be listened to, but it should be explained to him the trouble he has caused. Totally agree with anniehargs and woolywordsjulespent

sen c b l wrote:
What's up son. You can talk to me. Come on dear lets go for a walk.

on the other hand

Where are you you little brat. Thought you could muck around eh. You've made me a talking stock. I'll make a man of yer. Where's my belt?

If you love your children people on this page would choose the very top one. If not go for your belt!

Talking stock? Are they OXO cubes that give you advice or something?

[quote][p][bold]sen c b l[/bold] wrote:
What's up son. You can talk to me. Come on dear lets go for a walk.
on the other hand
Where are you you little brat. Thought you could muck around eh. You've made me a talking stock. I'll make a man of yer. Where's my belt?
If you love your children people on this page would choose the very top one. If not go for your belt![/p][/quote]Talking stock? Are they OXO cubes that give you advice or something?Steven Seagull

Is not about physical violence, as I said a good hiding or smack or whatever you want to call it didn't do us any harm, didn't raise me to be a child beater, it is about RESPECT something the children today don't even know the meaning of, whatever anyone says, it starts at home....but for some parents it is just too difficult

Is not about physical violence, as I said a good hiding or smack or whatever you want to call it didn't do us any harm, didn't raise me to be a child beater, it is about RESPECT something the children today don't even know the meaning of, whatever anyone says, it starts at home....but for some parents it is just too difficultLancs Away

crusade to find the truth from the brown stuff wrote:
Think the police officers who searched the loft initially need some extra training. If loft was searched properly would if avoided waste of lots of other people and agencies

You should have seen where he was hiding in the loft, no wonder he was missed.

[quote][p][bold]crusade to find the truth from the brown stuff[/bold] wrote:
Think the police officers who searched the loft initially need some extra training. If loft was searched properly would if avoided waste of lots of other people and agencies[/p][/quote]You should have seen where he was hiding in the loft, no wonder he was missed.Steven Seagull

Lancs Away wrote:
Is not about physical violence, as I said a good hiding or smack or whatever you want to call it didn't do us any harm, didn't raise me to be a child beater, it is about RESPECT something the children today don't even know the meaning of, whatever anyone says, it starts at home....but for some parents it is just too difficult

And it appears that for some parents it is too difficult unless they can use physical violence against children.

I have brought my kids up to respect other people, to know the difference between right and wrong and to behave properly. And I have not had to hit them to do it. I have instilled discipline instead.

[quote][p][bold]Lancs Away[/bold] wrote:
Is not about physical violence, as I said a good hiding or smack or whatever you want to call it didn't do us any harm, didn't raise me to be a child beater, it is about RESPECT something the children today don't even know the meaning of, whatever anyone says, it starts at home....but for some parents it is just too difficult[/p][/quote]And it appears that for some parents it is too difficult unless they can use physical violence against children.
I have brought my kids up to respect other people, to know the difference between right and wrong and to behave properly. And I have not had to hit them to do it. I have instilled discipline instead.Excluded again

at this age a lot of us would have been there a lot of things going through a teenagers mind if your being bullied its hard to talk to someone if your told off for anything you feel as if your being picked on everyone is getting at you your hormones are changing which affects both male and females which you makes you feel more sensitive to every thing because of surges in testestorone and these are very difficult because they are,nt in our control what he needs is to be able to talk to someone were he can exlain his feelings and anger and let it out instead of bottling it all up learn him not to be afraid of what is going on in his mind his body his already being punished with his transformation from childhood to manhood and he needs help in coping with these emotions not beatings or punishments don,t be to quick judging this boy saying he is an attention seeker he just does,nt know how to cope with his feelings he needs to learn how to express them and not run away from them punishment will achieve nothing oh and sen cb who would want to talk to you you made a laughing stock of yourself with your stupid comments if any one deserves a belt its you

at this age a lot of us would have been there a lot of things going through a teenagers mind if your being bullied its hard to talk to someone if your told off for anything you feel as if your being picked on everyone is getting at you your hormones are changing which affects both male and females which you makes you feel more sensitive to every thing because of surges in testestorone and these are very difficult because they are,nt in our control what he needs is to be able to talk to someone were he can exlain his feelings and anger and let it out instead of bottling it all up learn him not to be afraid of what is going on in his mind his body his already being punished with his transformation from childhood to manhood and he needs help in coping with these emotions not beatings or punishments don,t be to quick judging this boy saying he is an attention seeker he just does,nt know how to cope with his feelings he needs to learn how to express them and not run away from them punishment will achieve nothing oh and sen cb who would want to talk to you you made a laughing stock of yourself with your stupid comments if any one deserves a belt its youcarole blood

sen c b l wrote: What's up son. You can talk to me. Come on dear lets go for a walk. on the other hand Where are you you little brat. Thought you could muck around eh. You've made me a talking stock. I'll make a man of yer. Where's my belt? If you love your children people on this page would choose the very top one. If not go for your belt!

Talking stock? Are they OXO cubes that give you advice or something?

Ah we have a p155 taker on this page. You are one sh1t ead that I would not hesitate arming my self with a belt and giving you a good hiding.

[quote][p][bold]Steven Seagull[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]sen c b l[/bold] wrote: What's up son. You can talk to me. Come on dear lets go for a walk. on the other hand Where are you you little brat. Thought you could muck around eh. You've made me a talking stock. I'll make a man of yer. Where's my belt? If you love your children people on this page would choose the very top one. If not go for your belt![/p][/quote]Talking stock? Are they OXO cubes that give you advice or something?[/p][/quote]Ah we have a p155 taker on this page. You are one sh1t ead that I would not hesitate arming my self with a belt and giving you a good hiding.sen c b l