God would look into your heart and see if you're indeed seriously or you're simply doing it out of mockery. If out of mockery he'll simply ignore you. For God is a vengeful God and will not help those he seek him in heart and soul.

Why would I do it out of mockery? Cancer is a serious thing and frankly, I do wanted every case of cancer to disappear, it's horrible disease that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. If I were to pray, this is one I'd be totally serious about, if you really believe he'll answer that prayer as promised in the bible, then you're probably the one to do it...I don't know, does God answer the prayers of non-believers? If he does, I will try it. This is a prayer that would not only do the world a lot of could, but would have me and many other atheists seriously reconsidering their position on the existence of a God.

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And, if you're an invidual who lost someone to cancer, I'm sorry that this caused you to hate God and say he doesn't exists because you prayed and nothing happened.

We don't hate God. It's a common misconception about atheists, but ask the question, "how do you hate what you do not believe?" Can we hate Santa Claus for giving us the wrong presents at Christmas if we've acknowledged to ourselves that he doesn't actually exist?

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You know, you could have just gone to the Lady of Lourdes and dip the indvidual in it and they would have been cured. People have been cured from this with extreme faith involved.

I know of Lourdes, we approached in when we studied miracles at school, there were plenty of sources of criticism for how such miracles work. Crocoduck performed his own miracle on his video blog - you could consider it an example of one of the criticisms. If every case of cancer is cured tonight after praying for it, the ambiguity is removed.

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"The fact is, God never answers any prayers. The entire idea that "God answers" prayers" is an illusion created by human imagination.

How do we know that "answered prayers" are illusions? We simply perform scientific experiments. We ask a group of believers to pray for something and then we watch what happens. What we find, whenever we test the efficacy of prayer scientifically, is that prayer has zero effect:

The only thing that creates illusions is objects manifested into trickery(Majicians do this quite well.)

I don't beleive in praying that, when it's answered, it's an illusion. That's just ignorance and blaspheming the holy spirit which I refuse to do!

I believe there was an experiment, perhaps another forum member knows more?

Though there's one flaw in your logic. Fear of blaspheming the holy spirit stops you from accepting any other possibilities. This sort of thing could be evidence to suggest that maybe the Holy spirit isn't real. Having the presupposition that God without a doubt exist, prevents you from thinking critically about the existence of God. So such a presupposition will STOP you from being able to accept any evidence that might blaspheme or support the idea that he isn't real. Without the ability to critically think about it, you are one sided and therefore not fit for debate.

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I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.

Assertions...

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Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.

How about. Science was invented by man, because it is a means of seeking knowledge. Science is observation of the universe scrutinized in order to understand it. Stated God invented science is unscientific and remains a baseless assertion. Therefore, there's no weight in the argument. Without weight in your argument, of course you can't discuss it further.

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I'm in the process of reading(still in old testament) and I got to say, although it might sound wrong to stone people, you need to understand God needed to embed fear so that we wouldn't sin. In order to do that, people needed to get stoned so that people would know he was serious so that they don't do it. Besides, God already answered the prayer of no more stoning by sending Jesus in to wash away our sins.

I'll get back to that one, because it requires a lot of time to write up the response. I can't be sure you're going to stay and offer debate, so I also don't want to waste time writing it to find it's useless. Its happened to me many times before.

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I don't like to ponder God's plan, for that is questionig. When I question, bad s**t happens to me and don't like that, Thank you very much., Next proof....

Can't question God? Therefore, how can you accept any evidence outside of the bible? You can't know if you're wrong if you can't question the things you believe in. Therefore, again, you're not qualified to debate.

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Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong. Your criticizing two races and putting faults on others like if it's ours. Some people do create stories, that's why I only belive Christ and revelation, anything beyond revelation(Not in the bible) is not cause for recognition unless I see a miracle and acknowldge the work of the holy spirit.

There's little difference. You use the same logic and same excuses to defend your belief and have the same baseless assertions to say that your religion is true. What you fail to do is prove it...just like they do. A lot of Christians believes Jesus talks to them and that's proof enough, likewise a lot of Muslims think Allah speaks to them and that's proof enough for them and well, Mormonism was based on that Joseph Smith was being spoken to by an angel of the Lord. There's nothing that actually differentiates you. You'll say, "the others are fairy tales" and they'll say, "oh this CAFMAN guy is totally deluded, we have the right answer." And people will really believe that they're right, just as you believe you're right. That doesn't mean that you are.

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You're calling my parents a liar?

Well, near death experiences have their own criticisms and people have their answers. Saying 'calling my parents a liar' is a poor tactic, because you're trying to elicit an emotional response so that we avoid coming off as cruel or nasty about your parents. Lie requires that you consciously misinform somebody - it is possible to be mistaken or to misread things. People can have visions in their near-death experiences. There are several explanations out there, they don't question your parents' honesty and nor would I, so I am somewhat insulted by the question. I find death to be a very sad thing and would therefore not seek to offer them disrespect, particularly as your father needn't have died. The tunnel thing has its own explanations - I'm sure a Google search would bring them up. Visions too.

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Now, if my father had died, I would be homeless. For right now I am in final troubles and if it weren't for God's plan, I'd be homeless

Was it really God? You're offering assertions again.

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If you tell me I'm lying you can continue to be ignorant

I wouldn't call you a liar, for the same reasons I wouldn't call your parents a liar. Ignorant? You've put yourself in a position whereby it's impossible for you to listen or consider to any other point of view. Anything we told you wouldn't rub off on you unless you're willing to open yourself up - but it seems you fear that bad things will happen if you do. This to me is saddening and I mean no insult by it, it's just because the suffering you've had in your life brings you to fear 'God'. I looked at suffering in the world and it lead me to question God - the bad things that's happened to Mum has lead her to be anything - loss of parents and poor finance, it allowed her to question God and I questioned God by my own rights. Where am I now? Making the best out of my life - sure shit can happen, but I've not had any major shit happen in my life, but without God, I have a good life. So it is quite possible that the bad shit in your life isn't God punishing you. What happened to your Dad may in no way have been effected by God or your belief in God, muggers exist because they've allowed their lives to head into that kind of direction and have actively made the decision to attack people in order to steal money, without caring about who they hurt. The blame is on them for their poor actions. They are responsible.

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For you just want people to think you're right and that's Satan talking!

Assertions, naturally I do think I'm right (it's illogical not to) and yes, I would be more comfortable in a world of atheists, where we don't have conflict of religion and religious violence, however, it is that end I want - where people are respectful and not violent. If religion stays, yet remains reasonable, then I am happy. Don't assume because we challenge the arguments of religion that we're intolerant of it, though there are atheists here who would like the world to be rid of religion because they'd see it as a better place. But that's an argument for another thread. Personally I think, and I've had Christians agree, that Christians ought to be on their feet about their beliefs and to question God, so that they don't become ignorant in their beliefs. A challenged argument has more worth than an unchallenged one. Currently, we find very few Christians that allow challenges to their arguments and thus are unjustified and when some do, they only do what they can to try and support their own argument, rather than actually listening to the argument put against them, I consider it rare for a Christian to be open minded and listen to the arguments placed against them. Why am I posting then? Because I am an optimist.

As for Satan? That's a big point, you've given nothing to back it up. Given I lead quite a moral life-style, probably more moral than a lot of Christians and I appreciate life and try often or not to be selfless, I'd argue that there's nothing satanic about me. I disbelieve in the existence of God, I am not amoral nor 'evil' as the bible may choose to depict me. We can see Christian immorality all over the place. All we've done is stopped believing and suddenly we're possessed by the devil. I tried considering it, but how exactly would you go about finding the devil within you? Because if he is, then he's a nice devil who seeks peace in the world. Probably misunderstood by the modern day Christian.

But here's a twist for you, what if the God of the bible is Satan? It would not be unlikely for an evil being to want to play people for fools - look at the history of Christianity, it is violent and destructive, the God of the old testament is violent and destructive, in the old testament he tells people to be violent and destructive, meanwhile Satan tries to turn man from God, in the bible God kills over 2 million people (somebody's actually counted this) whereas the devil, 10. God often tries to bring the wrath...until Jesus comes along, God remains wrathful, but less so, with Jesus passing teachings of love and tolerance, but pain and suffering for all who do not obey. That is one way of screwing around, because by doing that, you're separating the religion and causing conflict in belief, throw in 2 other main religions, you've got yourself plenty of conflict. Is this not the sort of thing a cruel and evil being like a devil would want? And as far as we can see, if it's true, it has worked.

You might laugh because it sound ridiculous to you. But have you really considered that the bible, your convictions and beliefs are put tricks of the devil? I'd probably put this kind of behaviour up with the God of mischief, Loki.

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“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto MusashiWarning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

In the bible, God states to make offerings when you go to church. The church needs money to stay open and feed the poor. You say how can God not answer prayters and do it himself is cause he uses people to do it for him. For if he came down we'd all discinegrate. Our mortal bodies can't stand his presence that's why we have a soul. We got one the minute Adam and Eve ate the apple.

Some churches and not just the Catholic, make quite a bit of profit in collecting donations. That profit is probably better suited for the poor - the point of the protestant church was to have minimal wealth, hence old protestant churches are quite dull, the criticism being that Catholics were corrupt and pocketing wealth that's meant to be for your 'God'. We see still see it to day and more churches as well.

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Um, there is you've just haven't found it yet. Remember, seek me and you shall find? Obviously, you don't really want to seek him.

I would love to find proof of God. Why? Because it'd make this mortal life less important, I would put up with the next 60+ years worshipping him to be rewarded in the after life instead of punished. What's 80 years in a mortal life compared to an eternity of paradise. I would love for prayers to work, because we could fix so many problems with prayers.

But here begs the question, if you haven't found something you've never found before, yet know it exists? You say we haven't found the evidence yet, but what is there to say that there is any evidence? This is again, presupposing God exists before considering a point. Is there evidence of this evidence?

Also, we have found no evidence that the secret agent James Bond, or 007 exists, I could argue that wait, "there is evidence, you've just not found it yet". The lack of evidence generally suggests that a statement isn't true, up until the evidence is presented. Think of it as a court case - no member of the jury can 'know' if the accused committed the crime, so until the evidence proves so, the person is considered innocent.

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You didn't live in those times to justify your irrational statement.

Justify slavery for us. Forcing people to work for your own benefits, despite the risk of abuse from slavers and even death. The bible allows slavers to abuse and severely punish slaves as the people are considered property of the slavers.But with an omnipotent and omniscient God peering his head in the time of the old testament, surely this God would have the perfect solution to slavery, rather than endorse it?

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Ever hear of the Shroud of Turin?

De-bunked. Terrible example of Jesus' miracles. I say he looks more like Thor myself - the beard is the right shape.

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God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?

What if you were a priest and you caught your daughter engaging in fornication, could demands that you burn her to death. Explain that logic to me. Plus, kids joke around and call a prophet baldy, God is angry and has them mauled by bears.Plus, if you, like Ted Haggard find out that you're attracted to the same gender, and have sex with the same gender, is it right that somebody comes along and puts you to death? That's Leviticus 20:13. Ted Haggard by the law of God should be put to death. Is this killing people to avoid greater death? Why would I want ANYBODY to burn for eternity? There's a level of punishment a person can suffer in order to be forgiven. Did Jesus not teach to forgive? The will to have somebody burn for all eternity for their crimes in the eyes of God, no matter how small makes quite the contraction.

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I don't unless I watch the movie with Warwick Davis.

There is proof God exists you just don't seek. Stop repeating yourself you're starting to sound like someone who has no other defense other than to repeat.

It's called triangulation, it's a technique interviewers use. Asking seemingly the same questions in different ways and in different contexts. The purpose is to elicit a range of answers. The interviews I am currently working through, I do the exact same thing. It's journalism, basically.

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For inatnce, if I had 30 millions dollars in my back account. I'd give away 20 and only keeep ten. That's what Jesus means. Don't be greedy.

I would do the same. Except I don't listen to Jesus because I don't believe in his teachings. I am not sure this is what the question meant.

Evil by his definition. Again, burn a priest's daughter to death because she fornicated? Kill followers of other religions? Murder non believers? Put to death homosexuals? Kill the guy you see working on a Sunday? No matter how moral the lives of the people are? You'd have all of us put to death for being 'evil'. This is why people sometimes refer to Christianity as a 'death cult'. To be honest, I wouldn't let you anywhere near my family if that's your defense for the murderous teachings of the bible. Despite UK law, you'd be standing face down the barrel of a gun if you came near, that is, if you truly believe those teachings are just, which I don't think you do.

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Simply because everyone wants to be right. Grant it, I want Jesus to come so I can stick it to the Jews but I know it's wrong so I respect peopels faith and we they try to say and impose s**t on me of theirs the holy spirit within me gets hurt and I defend.

And probably as you say, God wants people murdered to rid evil, so for each Christian who kills in the name of God, is only really ridding evil. The Crusades were just, because they were basically Christians killing Muslims and God said in the bible to kill non-believers and destroy their towns. The Crusaders were, by the bible, doing the right things. Genocide in countries like Rwanda and Darfur would be approved by God if it were Christians doing it. If you take it that the Jews are of a different religion because they refuse to accept Jesus Christ, then the holocaust would have pleased God, if Hitler had done it for Godly reasons.

You might think, "I don't support all this murder", but in the way your read and support the bible, this is what you're saying and agreeing with.

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Proof #25 - Understand evolution and abiogenesis

Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....

What created the sun? It wasn't just there? and if an explosion happen, where the f**k did all the organisms come free. Doesn't scince say extreme heat in the sun kill ALL ORGANIMS CAUSE NOTHING CAN SURVIVE IT?!!!!!!

Important word there is 'understand'. Your response proves that you don't. Before you say ANYTHING on Evolution, please learn about it first and not from creationists or creationist sources, generally, they're incredibly inaccurate of describing what 'Evolution' is, because they themselves haven't taken the time to learn and understand evolution. AND you WILL need a lot of research to do this, it's not a simple run of reading off of wikipedia.

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I do and it's scary. I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity

Add the fear of burning in Islam hell for eternity. You'll find yourself in a dilemma. We atheists tend to (but not all of us) fear death because it is the end and nothing comes afterwards. Thus life is more important, we see it sad people break down in devotion to God to find that their hopes and dreams aren't there. This is a difficult thing to overcome when you're a Christian becoming an atheist, because the thought of all of the people you love permanently and not fulfilling your hope in heaven is frightening. The fear of hell only pushes your devotion. Why would a loving God cause you so much fear and pain in this life?

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There's only one. As you said before, he has different names but he's one in the same.

So God dressed up as a Goddess and proposed to Gilgamesh, the King of Uruk? You claim only that different names exist because you assert that yours is right and that everybody else is deluded about who God really is. Interestingly, the Sumerians must have had a lot of trouble worshipping Enlil and his buddies in the 6 days they witnessed God create the world 6,000 years ago. But still in witnessing this great event, their belief exists for another 3,000 or so years.

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Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?

Or maybe teachings such as a woman is not to speak in Church? Or is that a sin, yet men talking in church isn't? Then it is the sin that's sexist.

YES, I did it, I responded to 95% of his answers. Now you can tell me that I spend way too much time on the internet. I hope he reads them and takes them seriously. I hope he appreciates that I just spent over an hour writing that by reading it and considering my points.

[double post, my post exceeded character count limit]

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“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto MusashiWarning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

My father was mugged in 2000 and choked to death. He told me he saw a brightlight and the tunnel and said as he tried to head towards he was pushed back and awoken.

Now, if my father had died, I would be homeless. For right now I am in final troubles and if it weren't for God's plan, I'd be homeless.

Also, my mother passed for 10 minutes and came back. She told me she saw God but refused to tell me deatils as she is not allowed to reveal the secrets of the Lord. She did say he was the most beautiful looking person in the world and was very humble, warm and welcoming.

If you tell me I'm lying you can continue to be ignorant. For you just want people to think you're right and that's Satan talking! Did you ever stop to think you could be one of the apostles of Satan and that's why you say this. Hell, you could be the Anti-christ trying to make people beleive you to take us down but you're too ignorant to realize it.

To be continued....

Here's the thing, neither of your parents died, they may have been 'near death', hence they had 'Near Death Experiences', not experiences of being actually dead because if they had actually been dead they wouldn't have come back to tell you about it.

The alternative is that they were actually dead and did come back from being dead, which is pretty amazing that both have been in that situation. Kind of makes being dead and coming back not an infrequent occurrence - so why worship someone who has allegedly done something nearly as common as getting a bus?

So which is it to be; nearly dead, in which case their experiences tell us nothing about being actually dead or really dead, which makes your resurrection myth meaningless?

I respect your dream, CAFMAN, and what you think it means for your life. If it helped you, great, but, since people have had ALL KINDS of dreams and crazy experiences, such experiences can't be expected to have any special meaning for anyone else. I'm sure you understand that.

Maybe God has decided you need to die. I won't be happy, because I like your input, but I would find it hilariously ironic

Ha, good job trying to hide your anger GodSaves. LOL. I can see it coming out your ears. You would be cheering in the streets if I dropped dead. Just like any hard core Christian like you really would. While you all preach how "Godsaves", it's all a bunch of s**t. You don't mean it. You feel the rage, and the anger, and you would like nothing more than to type it all into that machine in front of you, but you can't. Because it would mean defeat. It would be surrendering to the impulses that we all NATURALLY have when our firm beliefs are confronted. Know what though? I don't have big mean sky daddy watching over me. He isn't there, watching every move I make with a pen and paper, writing down every good and bad deed I do. No.... He isn't there for me. And I am doing just GREAT without him.

At least you are honest about one thing... your complete and utter stupidity. I think we can all agree on that point.

I would love nothing more than to be a fly on the wall above you after reading this post. It would be interesting to watch your impotent rage fizzle out in more lies about how "you really do care about us, and how you only came here to bring the word of God". Whatever. You came here to preach, and when it went bad, you couldn't cut and run because you would have left knowing you lost hardcore on this one. You can draw it out as long as you like, but you are STILL going to lose. Your points are terrible, your defenses of God are extremely immoral, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Bottom line. God is fake. There it is. This is not in question anymore. There is no God.

Sorry, better get a new hobby.

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Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Stereotypes. If I claimed that many Athiests were stereotypical against believers, would be being stereotypical, but would I be wrong?

am I mistaken or are you claiming the mailbag is fully of stereotypes, that they aren't what they have presented themselves as being? If so, just who is *making* them such asses and why does your God do nothing? He certainly seemed to be intent on making those who misrepresented him pay in all sorts of nasty ways (boils anyone?)

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

Jesus is not to appear again until the time of Armageddon. It says so in revelation.

Ok, so in Matthew 24:34 KJV, Christ says that this generation shall not pass till all things be fulfilled.

This is in response to the disciples asking when he will return. So he tells the disciples that he will return in their lifetimes. Yet 2000 years have passed. Paul also screamed that in his days Christ would return.

The previous two verses contradict this as he gives the parable of the fig tree in representation of the reestablishment of Israel, stating that the signs of his return would follow Israel's reestablishment. Israel was back in 1948.

Revelations had not been written yet.

Durn writers should of held a pow wow before entering words into christs mouth. The entire New Testament is full of horrible contradictions.

God would look into your heart and see if you're indeed seriously or you're simply doing it out of mockery. If out of mockery he'll simply ignore you. For God is a vengeful God and will not help those he seek him in heart and soul.

So, you just proved right there God exists for he's not listening to your mockery.

Are you kidding me? If God doesn't answer a prayer, that proves God does exist? Let's try this one:

I pray for God to prove to me he exists.I am ignored.This proves God exists.Because he proved that he existed (ie, my prayer came true), I know I was not ignored.However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored. Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored. Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored. Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored. Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored. Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer. . . .

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And, if you're an invidual who lost someone to cancer, I'm sorry that this caused you to hate God and say he doesn't exists because you prayed and nothing happened.

We don't hate God any more than we hate Santa Claus or Flying Purple People Eaters. In order to hate something, you first need to believe it exists.

Most of us, however, think that if God of the Christian Bible were real, he would have to be an exceedingly cruel son of a bitch. Look at some of his 'goodness':

Holding innocent people with no knowledge of right and wrong to high standards that required knowledge of right and wrong (the whole Adam, Eve, and apple story).Punishing all women for the 'sin' of Eve. How would YOU like to be punished- harshly- for some trivial offense some ancestor of yours did thousands of years ago? Does that sound good and fair to you?

Creating a special place of eternal torment for people who don't do everything you say. Imagine a parent painfully beating their child because the child did something bad (say, talked back to the parent, which is forbidden in the Bible). Would you consider this a kind and loving parent? Now imagine the beating goes on forever. Not an hour, or a day, or a week, or a year. Forever. That's how 'kind and loving' God is depicted.

Creating all the evil in the world. After all, God supposedly created everything. More than that, God supposedly knows everything as well, so God would have known exactly how things would turn out.

Killing and ordering the killing of entire societies because of some minor thing, or nothing at all. This includes the babies. I suppose these babies were so wicked that God had no choice.

Creating a 'thou shalt not kill' commandment, and then ordering his followers to kill.

These are only a few examples. There are many, many more. Also, if you think that the New Testament changed anything, check out Revelation 2:23 (haha, 'kill her children with death'- like there's another way to kill) and Luke 14:26 (gotta hate your family to follow Jebus!) for a couple of examples.

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Proof #3 - Look at historical gods

I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.

Of course you don't need to. Why bother looking at any other viewpoints? After all, you've got the Bible!

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Proof #4 - Think about science

Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.

Your spelling/typing throughout this post is terrible, so how about you think about English, too?

As for science, the fact that we can get so many things right that the Bible gets wrong (or omits altogether) is pretty strong evidence that the Bible was neither written nor inspired by an all-knowing being that created everything.

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Proof #5 - Read the Bible

I'm in the process of reading(still in old testament) and I got to say, although it might sound wrong to stone people, you need to understand God needed to embed fear so that we wouldn't sin. In order to do that, people needed to get stoned so that people would know he was serious so that they don't do it. Besides, God already answered the prayer of no more stoning by sending Jesus in to wash away our sins.

So, you haven't even finished it, and you're a full convert? Are you one of those people who buys every miracle product offered on infomercials, even before Ron Popeil gets to the 'but wait, there's more!' part, or tells you how much it will cost?

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Proof #6 - Ponder God's Plan

I don't like to ponder God's plan, for that is questionig. When I question, bad shit happens to me and don't like that, Thank you very much., Next proof....

Yeah, turn off your brain, thinking is bad. This is your life motto?

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Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong. Your criticizing two races and putting faults on others like if it's ours. Some people do create stories, that's why I only belive Christ and revelation

This would explain why you have a problem with- wait for it- facts.

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Proof #8 - Think about Near Death Experiences

You're calling my parents a liar?

Blah blah blah. Judging from your accounts of your experiences and those of your parents, and the fact that mental illness is often hereditary, I'd say you're fucking nuts- or to use a lovely expression I first saw here, 'bat-shit crazy', and so are your folks. No disrespect intended.

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Proof #9 - Understand ambiguity

If someonehad an uncurable cancer and was miracously cured, and science had no say on how it was possible, it'sd cause it's God...Next proof.

By that sort of logic, if someone had incurable cancer and DIED (believe it or not, it happens), then it's not God. I bet I can find more cases of 'not God' than you can 'God' in respected medical journals, which means I win.

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Proof #10 - Watch the offering plate

In the bible, God states to make offerings when you go to church. The church needs money to stay open and feed the poor. You say how can God not answer prayters and do it himself is cause he uses people to do it for him. For if he came down we'd all discinegrate. Our mortal bodies can't stand his presence that's why we have a soul. We got one the minute Adam and Eve ate the apple.

Wait, we got souls when they ate the apple, or we got mortal bodies?

If we got souls for breaking God's rules, that's like giving your kid candy for scribbling on the walls with a crayon. If we got bodies only after this act, then it begs the question of how Adam and Eve ate anything without a physical presence.

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Proof #11 - Notice that there is no scientific evidence

Um, there is you've just haven't found it yet. Remember, seek me and you shall find? Obviously, you don't really want to seek him.

Well, since science was created by us (your response to Proof #4), I expect what you're really saying is that this 'scientific evidence' needs to be created by us as well. There's no need to wait, though; Christians have been creating their 'evidence' for years.

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Proof #12 - See the magic

Magic is a term created by people. I'll pass that one.

It didn't stop you from criticizing science.

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Proof #13 - Take a look at slavery

You didn't live in those times to justify your irrational statement.

Opposing slavery is irrational? Please defend your assertion. I honestly want to see how you think slavery is acceptable, regardless of what time period. It might have been practiced (widely) in ancient times, but that does not make it right.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Proof #16 - Contemplate the contradictions

God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?

I assume you meant 'greater good', not 'greater kill'. Would I kill in defense of myself, or someone I cared about? Sure. Would I go out, vigilante-style, and hunt down the person I thought might maybe possibly been the one to perhaps have done something bad? Probably not.

Even still, that's a strawman argument. The contradictions are about far more than just killing, and even if killing was the only issue, God kills massive amounts of innocents, and command the killing of innocents. To put your example in context, I would need to not only kill the murderer, but every member of his family and probably his nation. I'd also need to make sure they all went to Hell and suffered forever. Only then would justice be served.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

There is proof God exists you just don't seek. Stop repeating yourself you're starting to sound like someone who has no other defense other than to repeat.

I think you mean 'evidence', not 'proof'. Either way, please share it. Note that the Bible, and things deriving directly or indirectly from it (such as your belief, or that of other Christians), are not acceptable evidence, unless there is another reliable source. In the same way that you would not allow a criminal defendant to act as his own alibi witness, you cannot use the Bible's claims to prove the validity of the Bible.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Proof #19 - Notice that you ignore Jesus

I don't.

You hate your parents and siblings, then?

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Jesus means to be good to others. If they need help help them. He doesn't expect you to be perfect.

For inatnce, if I had 30 millions dollars in my back account. I'd give away 20 and only keeep ten. That's what Jesus means. Don't be greedy.

How about you- as a devout Christian, who would not mock God- pray for that $30M, and then give $20M to charity? Better yet, pray for an end to all suffering, disease, hunger, and unhappiness for all people.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Proof #25 - Understand evolution and abiogenesis

Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....

What created the sun? It wasn't just there? and if an explosion happen, where the fuck did all the organisms come free. Doesn't scince say extreme heat in the sun kill ALL ORGANIMS CAUSE NOTHING CAN SURVIVE IT?!!!!!!

Oh my, you've completely missed the point. You've also illustrated the point. You have no idea what either 'evolution' or 'abiogenesis' mean.

Biogenesis (bio (life) + genesis (creation of life)) is the creation of life from existing life. For example, you have sex and get a girl pregnant (please don't try this, by the way), and she gives birth. That is an example of life coming from other life.

Abiogenesis is life coming from non-life, as it's biogenesis with the prefix 'a', meaning 'without', or 'lack of' (the prefix, in this case, modifies the fragment 'bio'). It is the concept that molecules that make up life can originate in environments without life. It has about as much relationship to evolution as television manufacturing has to do with network programming.

Evolution is the theory that organisms (that's a fancy word for 'living things') change over time through successive generations. Traits that are beneficial to survival are passed on to offspring more frequently, and traits that are detrimental to survival are passed on less frequently. The cause is obvious: if something increases the odds of survival, then that means more individuals can make babies, and if it decreases those odds, less individuals can make babies. Thus, over time, a population tends to adapt to its environment. New traits can be introduced through genetic mutation, and while many of these mutations will be detrimental, those that are beneficial will tend to become more common. When this process occurs over long enough periods of time, especially when populations are isolated from one another, it can result in new species. That is a (very) simple introduction to what evolution is. You should have picked this up in early grade school.

As far as the argument of 'where did ____ come from, if God didn't create it?', I would ask you where God came from. If God can just pop into existence one day, then so can the universe. If God can have always existed, then so can the conditions that spawned the universe. Every possible argument you can pose to explain God's existence can be used to explain the universe as well.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Proof #26 - Notice that the Bible's author is not "all-knowing"

Because you have to go look in the archives of the Vatican for me detail.

For you detail? What does that even mean? And didn't you say you don't trust anything outside of the Bible?

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Proof #27 - Think about life after death

I do and it's scary. I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity.

I'm not, which means I can get on with the business of living my life.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

About soul, can you explain to me why when some does does their body become eaier to pick because they've actually lost weight?

That is what we call a loaded question. It sticks a premise into the question, and assumes we accept it. If you want to assert the body becomes lighter after death, show some sources. It's kind of like if I asked you this: Why do you look at kiddie porn whenever you masturbate? Note I one-upped you, and stuck two loaded terms into my question.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Proof #30 - Examine God's sexism

Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?

I see people always throwing the free will argument around, then they come up with bullshit like this. If we have free will, we are responsible for our own choices, not some distant ancestor. If we have free will, Adam could have turned down the apple (ie, it was not Eve's fault he ate it, it was his own). If we do not have free will, then why punish people of either gender for something they couldn't help but do?

The whole Adam/Eve/apple thing is just another story used to justify a) persecuting people forever, and b) persecuting women in particular. This is because the men who wrote the Bible liked their women meek and obedient, and what better way than to say it was God's will?

Quote from: Seppuku

Important word there is 'understand'. Your response proves that you don't.

Hey, maybe you're jumping the gun- maybe he's not ignorant. He could be willfully misrepresenting it.

Quote from: Seppuku

Before you say ANYTHING on Evolution, please learn about it first and not from creationists or creationist sources, generally, they're incredibly inaccurate of describing what 'Evolution' is, because they themselves haven't taken the time to learn and understand evolution. AND you WILL need a lot of research to do this, it's not a simple run of reading off of wikipedia.

I'd be happy with a Wikipedia-based level of knowledge, compared to what I've seen some theists state.

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The Bible is one of the select few books that is wholly deserving of being burned.- Me

I am pretty sure that those who believe due to fear of punishment are not true believers and will be inevitably punished in the fires of hell. Now how does that make you feel?

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People are 'erroneously confident' in their knowledge and underestimate the odds that their information or beliefs will be proved wrong. They tend to seek additional information in ways that confirm what they already believe. Max Bazenman, Harvard University