I don't think we can apply any sort of limit realistically on how many DIY AAA perms are eligible for the GdS because it's an AUK Brevet award like any other and there is no such restriction on any other awards,

Is it? I thought it was an independently managed award scheme recognised by the AUK in much the same way the RRTY is, and as such you have some scope to develop* the GDS rules to allow for changing circumstance, for example, to limit the number of perms that might be included in the award.

*Ref: Dec'09 being snowed off for RRTY purposes.

well yes it sort of is independent; but as no other AUK awards require riding calendar events it might be seen as unfair and PatC and I might have to declare our interests in The House

However I might frown at someone doing 5 DIY's that follow the routes of existing calendar events; especially if the rider doesn't ride the latter;

Weirdy Biker

Alas, it is the curse of the internet that any publicly declaration attracts comment...

Funnily enough, logistically, getting the GdS has been one of the most difficult awards to bag, which made it all the more desirable. I will, however, claim that pin later this year

I personally (uh-oh, curse of the internet strikes) think allowing GPS DIYs to count towards the GdS somehow lessens the award. There is something noble about having a limited number of events to choose from and being forced to plan around them. A GdSRTY on the other hand...

Alas, it is the curse of the internet that any publicly declaration attracts comment...

Funnily enough, logistically, getting the GdS has been one of the most difficult awards to bag, which made it all the more desirable. I will, however, claim that pin later this year

I personally (uh-oh, curse of the internet strikes) think allowing GPS with DIYs to count towards the GdS cheapens the award. There is something noble about having a limited number of events to choose from and being forced to plan around them. A GdSRTY on the other hand...

I doubt it will have much effect; the rules put up last year did allow "any perm anybody wants to devise" as being eligible, this includes DIY's

I have at least 2 potential takers for a GdSRTY as a means of AAARTY as they are not motorised

Just rode FY's new Down to Downs perm (1.75AAA 106km) using the suggested start of Edenbridge.

A lovely ride, hard as expected. Toy's Hill was an early shock to the system, and after the long descent into Brasted there's a new one for me on the other side of the A25. A typo on the route sheet in Brasted had me scratching head but soon I saw a massive hill looming ahead (probably the steepest on the ride) so knew I was on track. Much like the Ide Hill Grimpeur you Descend Descend Descend from the top and eventually pop out on the A21 at Green Street Green where the petrol station gets a 5* for Tchibo Cappucino and Star Bars

You then go along the A21 for a bit (found out there is a parallel cycle path) before a drag back up to Knockholt where you drop down to the M25 on what I assume is the last hill back up on the Hell of the Ashdown. A new road for me up from Sundridge to Ide Hill for an info. You drop down the Beast (all the descents are on well surfaced single carriageway roads which make this an ideal winter ride) and wiggle through past Bough Beech reservoir before some moderate lumpy stuff and eventually the petrol station at Langton Green just outside Tunbridge Wells.

From there it's a scoot down into Groombridge and the lovely drag up though Friar's Gate; Ashdown Forest makes you work for the views as they take a while to appear but are well worth it (the South Downs from one direction and the North Downs coming back). At the top is the long descent to Maresfield where I used the alternative route through Underhill; not sure if this will become a permanent detour though.

Plenty of choice for food in Uckfield (I sat on a bench outside Tesco) before a reverse back up to the top of the Forest and back down to Hartfield (where I saw a couple of Japanese Pooh fans walking up the path-less main road to Gills Lap ) before the fairly gentle and steady climb back up to Stick Hill and eventually the final and welcome whizz back down to Edenbridge. Very nice to do it this way as the climbing gets shallower as you go round the route.

A lovely ridelong descentyou drop downYou drop downall the descents are on well surfaced single carriageway roads which make this an ideal winter ridethe viewsthe long descent to Maresfieldthe final and welcome whizz back down to Edenbridge

I noted the above phrases - they fired me with enthusiasm! and have sent off my three quid. I'm looking forward to having a go at it. What's more, it's local.Er, I'm sure that having been described in such glowing terms, this cannot possibly turn into a sort of "El's Perm"-type experience, with endless hills and suchlike.

Had a go at it on Saturday, and can recommend it as a route. Good surfaces virtually all the way round, only a few hundred yards of smallish potholes. Plenty of food opportunities en route. It strikes me as an ideal shorter hardish route to do in the winter when you won't want to be out in bad weather for a long time. A rather clever use of the hills around - there was some traffic but not really too much. And as an added bonus there are some really rather super descents that went on for simply ages - but of course, all descents must be bought or paid for.I started in Langton Green and went north to Green St Green and then southwards to Edenbridge and beyond. (I stopped at my cousin's to refill water bottles but that may not be an option for others.)The best thing about the day was the sheer hilarity of how long we took to completely bodge a puncture my companion - who shall remain nameless - incurred.Lessons learnt include:

when two pumps and a gas cyclinder fail to inflate a new inner tube, it is not because they have all failed, it is because the inner tube has two brand new holes in it.

you can lose a lot of time if the two of you have only one pair of reading glasses between you and you have to keep swapping them over to do the fine detail work such as finding a thorn in a tyre and then picking it out of aforesaid tyre.

your mate will get quite tired quite quickly if a spoke breaks in his rear wheel and the wheel becomes so distorted that it rubs on the rear brakes - hence he has to slacken off the rear brakes. this in turn adds hilarity to the long descents and increases the maximum speed he is likely to reach.

It also rained almost all day. I felt as if i was living a "how not to do a perm" article for Arivee.But the route itself was a cracker. I'll definitely do it again. The difference next time is that I'll do it inside the Audax specified time, rather than longer.

Weirdy Biker

Sitting around waiting for riders to arrive in Yalding gave me a chance to think about a 200km route that could be hilly enough, without infos, to be a 200km AAA permanent in the South East. I've struggled with this for a wee while, continually coming up short, either in height or distance, or not being able to balance hilly with attractive route.

But. Well I've only gone and done it. Subject to the usual checking, agreement of the AAA man, tweaking on route check etc. the final piece in my hilly SE series may be available from Spring next year.

PS: If it works, variants on this and my Down to Downs will be put on as calendar events next year. In lieu of William the Conkerer which is a nice route, but not the hilly 200 the south east deserves.

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Weirdy Biker

....and I've now got a 300 up my sleeve as well, which links the route below with a variant on my Surrey Hills 50, which looks like giving 4250m of climb. Below controls plus: Warlingham, Cranleigh, Cobham, Dorking, Warlingham. Slightly over distance at 325km, but tweakable.

Can I get a 400 and 600 for the full hilly SE SR? (I've got an inkling, taking the route variously to the South Downs and over by Dover).

PS: If it works, variants on this and my Down to Downs will be put on as calendar events next year. In lieu of William the Conkerer which is a nice route, but not the hilly 200 the south east deserves.

excellent (checks GdS calendar) Apr and July are currently Sans Grimpe

Thanks. It will be made a little bit easier in future, as I realised that the info control over Toys Hill is not needed (the shortest route between Green St Green and Langton Green goes via Toys Hill and Beech Bough in any case)....

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Weirdy Biker

A rather clever route though; three loops all centred on the HQ in Bredgar. Each loop had at least one long, steady climb and several punchy shorter ones. Generally linked by a fast, flat dash along ridges or valleys. Familiar territory from some of Dave Hudson's permanents (Medway Meander in particular). It was also a nice time of the year to be riding - cool, with the trees turning and the fields freshly ploughed. I'll ignore the nagging headwind and the occasional flash of precipitation.

Good organisation, evidenced by a perfect route sheet (well, at least I didn't get lost without a GPS) and a fine bowl of veggie chilli at the end

yACF'ers of a southern plume were in evidence. As was the fairy (of the puncture kind, not the San Fairy kind, although he also made an appearance).

My second go at this one and likely not the last. I was cleverly (!) slow enough to miss the rain in the Charing Heath area but got caught on the last hill. Splendid ride with the usual suspects - very enjoyable! Many thanks to the Fords

there will hopefully be a bit of free bling for all the x5's from 2011; watch this space (and Ann wants a gold medal for 10 rides; yellow headlamp lacquer anyone?)

a great ride from Tim as always; seems he got the same weather for the last third (or at least slowcoaches like me did) as last year's MSH; one of those days when you knew it was no passing shower. Rode with Jeremy and Ann the SWRC massive and feeling desperately unfit, am climbing like a Dutchman this year. A late start followed by a fairy visit at the end of the first loop meant an almost empty hall for us for the rest of the day. Saw AJB who decided to pack after round#1 having spent some time in the bushes looking for Rolf and Hughie Blair (think about it).

Tim's thinking about making it a 2 lap July 200 next year a la Invicta Grimpeur (think I'm having a haircut that day) as well as a replacement for the Kent Corners.

Thanks Lise for the photos after passing her the 1st time we ignored the route sheet and ended up looking like we would end up back at base having ignored the little number in Hucking so had to retrace out of honesty

Weirdy Biker

Hmmm, I'm not sure that a double Hengist would make a particularly nice 200. 3 loops around Bredgar was about enough for me. Doubling that would be a bit tedious (in my opinion).

A longer loop east (towards Vigo/Eynsford) or west to Canterbury/Hythe might make a more interesting route, albeit challenging to get the climb required to make it AAA, if that's the intention. Then again, my knowledge of hills in the South East is more extensive to the west of Sevenoaks rather than to the east.

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Weirdy Biker

Tim Wainwright's Battle and Back had a 150 grimpeur alongside a 200 grimpeur IIRC. The more I try and figure how best to put on a longer Surrey/Sussex grimpeur rides, the more I realise that Tim had pretty much come up with the optimum solutions in his rides.

PS: I've finalised my GdS events for 2011.25/4: Down to Downs (AAA TBC, pending test ride, but likely to be 2AAA)17/9: A 200km ride (substantially changed compared to 2010, so will have a new name. There will be more Ashdown action. Likely to be 3.25AAA)

The 200 will be available as a permanent (it can be done without infos) along with a 300km AAA permanent (I need to put together a formal routesheet for both before submitting to John though, so I expect both won't appear before April/May 2011 as I'll construct these in "stages" over the winter).

I may run the previous route of William the Conkerer as a late spring ride in future years, removing some hills so no longer AAA (the general consensus was that it was a nice route, so would be a shame to obliterate it). The name will change though as conkers are autumnal. Will need to figure out a Battle based name with a bit of wit suitable for Spring...

I'm unlikely to realise my hopes of a full GdS SR series, at least as a permanent series, due to the number of controls needed (the 300 has 9, which I think is the most I want to require on a ride).

Weirdy Biker

The Jan/Feb rides in my 2010 AARTY were the toughest so far, regardless of distance. Partly due to fitness, partly weather and partly that the bike is just so much heavier (clothing, equipment/tyres and me!)

I don't think I'll be doing any grimpeur events once I bag my December ride, only picking up the pace again in March/April when I'll be testing my Easter calendar event.

There will be a (virtual) GdSRTY for anyone who wants to fill in the gaps in the calendar with Down to Downs or GPS DIYs; assuming it includes 10 rides in the same season this will also be a Grimpeur d'Or (medal available cost £100; that's what a minimum run in gold metal will cost)

medal available cost £100; that's what a minimum run in gold metal will cost

I'd be happy with a plastic one painted yellow. but i'm as tight as a gnat's chuff.

on a more serious note, a series of 100k hilly rides to go at through the year would suit me down to the ground - not too long to be out on the bike on horrid weather, with enough hills to get the legs fit, something tangible to aim for. i'd be quite keen on that.

on a more serious note, a series of 100k hilly rides to go at through the year would suit me down to the ground - not too long to be out on the bike on horrid weather, with enough hills to get the legs fit, something tangible to aim for. i'd be quite keen on that.

There are gpx files publicly available for many of the calendar GdS events; all of which would be GdS eligible as a DIY by GPS, I'm happy for mine to be used but not sure about the other orgs.