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Backside comparison: Daria Werbowy vs. Cindy D.

At the time of this posting, high-fashion model Daria Werbowy has been ranked #1 among the top-50 fashion models in the World by Models.com. What kind of backside do you think she has?

Daria Werbowy has a pretty cool-looking backside -- from the perspective of male homosexual fashion designers that is:

Now, some would want to know how can they be sure that the picture above is really of Daria Werbowy? The following screen captures from the same source should help in this regard.

Readers skeptical of the dominant influence of gays in high fashion should look at the following pictures and ask themselves which of the two women shown on this page would be [vastly] more preferable to heterosexual men?

Java_junky: I do not know the last name of Cindy above. Besides, chances are that even Cindy is a pseudonym. Many glamour models do not use their real names. If you find her pictures at a different site, they will likely be filed under a different name.

I don't know what it is but skinny super models with nothing but skin and bones are nto appealing at all, most are down right ugly. That is why Cindy is a better choise, she looks natural, and has some body on her. Also, I don't think that most men could put up with a models lifestyle of eating little and constant exercise. Just my opion.

well, after having a look in your site, i'd say that according to you only pornostars and a few other women are attractive in the world!
not all the high fashion models are attractive, some of them are undoubtedly too skinny, but to me... daria werbowy is the sexiest tomboy in the world! her adroginity is simply fabolous!
and that cindy is like a piece of boiled meat compared to her!
btw, there're plenty of better pictures of daria than those you posted.

Dariafan: I have already pointed out that the gay domination of the fashion business is so extensive that one has no choice but to seek pictures of attractive and feminine women from adult-oriented sources.

Whereas you may find Daria Werbowy’s androgyny sexually appealing, I hope you are aware that Daria Werbowy would not register as attractive, let alone fabulous in the minds of the great majority of exclusively heterosexual men and also most women.

You are right, there are many better quality pictures of Daria available out there, and I have provided some of them here, but I resorted to the screen captures above because I was not able to find a picture of her that showed the contours of her backside.

Speaking as a lifetime exclusive heterosexual, I'd choose Cindy over Daria -- any day. Cindy has a lovely feminine face and her backside is shapely and sublime. Daria, on the other hand, has a harsh looking masculinised face and the body of a slim adolescent boy. No thanks!

Go Daria.
Daria is hot and sexy. Long legs and beautiful face. But most important she is classy and looks intelligent. Cindy on the other hand looks like a $2.00 dollar hooker and a porn star wanna be. Her pussy is so ugly.. yuck.. who wants that one night stand looking girl over hard working and successful model like Daria. Round ass is not everything,Cindy looks like she never finished high school and showing her ass on internet is the only thing she could do with herself. Daria doesn't have to pose naked to get people's attention.

Everyone in our office said you are wrong, Daria looks feminine and she is a beautiful woman. She dosn't look masculine at all. Please let us have our own opinion how a woman should look like. Please don't make an opinion and force it on other people. All women are different and they have different body types if you prefer shorter and with more body that is no problem but we think that tall and skinny can also be very feminine and that runway models don't look masculine. Look around you how many masculine looking women do you see every day? Regards

Brian: What kind of office do you work at? Not a typical office it seems. Even Dariafan, who strongly dislikes this entry, acknowledges the androgyny of Daria Werbowy. Daria is a textbook example of a masculinized woman. Is a feminine woman supposed to have broad shoulders, a narrow pelvis and a near-flat backside? The masculinity of Daria Werbowy is hardly related to her height or skinniness. I have shown plenty of pictures of tall and feminine women within this site, and have also pointed out that some skinny women have feminine skeletal proportions.

I am not forcing my opinion on anyone. You are entitled to your opinion as to how beautiful Daria is, and whereas you may find Daria beautiful, as some others do, most people don’t. On the other hand, go through the feminine vs. masculine page to understand that Daria is masculine by objective standards. Read the page linked to in my previous comment for evidence that people overwhelmingly prefer feminine looks in women. And, here is yet another picture of Daria Werbowy that shows how "beautiful" she is:

Your research is inadequate and inaccurate. You have no clear indication as to what features may be categorized as masculine as a pose to feminine and no academic source that you are relying upon. You have displayed a clear bias when categorizing women as feminine or masculine because you are using subjective standards. Academics published in professional journals still have not agreed upon what is male and what is female characteristics. Obviously, since you are not an academic, your opinion is just that- an opinion-and a wrong one if you ask me. According to my research, when a human is born, the only difference between a male and a female is their genitals and finger length.

Obviously, professional photographs cannot be compared to pornographic pictures. It is difficult to determine their femininty when the backside is in my face. After revewing your personal "Debbie Does Dallas" collection, I have some criticisms of my own based on your categorization of high cheek bones, small breasts, and flat bottoms, and so on as un-feminine. Lucie has small breats, protruding rib cage and high cheek bones. Sandy looks transexual and even resembles the cast of Transamerica. I have serious questions about the legality of Katie- doesn't she look too young to be on display? And Pipi Longstocking looks like a little boy.

If you are going to criticize women and femininity, you should do some research. A masculine woman is characterized by lower voice, growth of body hair and abnormal development of muscle mass, which could only be achieved through male hormone therapy. Femine attributes are large or small breasts, fertility, being emotional and smaller waist, etc. There is no one definition of a woman or femininity. Models are woman and no woman is perfect.

Lastly, homosexuals experience a desire to be like a woman, in appearance and behaviour. A homosexual designer would choose models that are extremely femine and beautiful because they are more likely to identify with these women. Psychologists have proven that the people who become famous are adored by the general public because all people prefer to identify with a beautiful person as someone who resembles them. Therefore, woman who are beautiful would be chosen as a model because other women would want to look like them, dress like them and buy the product they are wearing. Clearly, economical growth is the underlying factor in the modelling industry. The models you criticize represent the top fashion designers and these models are responsible for selling millions of dollars of products for them. If they were masculine and unattractive, who would identify with them?

Please consider this opinion and perhaps you may achieve a broader view of the world, rather than your narrow-minded sexist standards. The 21st century is one of diversity.

Isabella: How can you say that academics have not agreed as to what constitute feminine and masculine physical features? This is patently absurd. Does one have to even be an academic to note that there are multiple skeletal differences between men and women, on average? The feminine vs. masculine page features plenty of figures from academic sources, and the academic references are listed at the bottom.

You accuse me of a clear bias with respect to categorizing women as feminine or masculine. However, I am categorizing women in terms of being more feminine or more masculine, usually in an overall sense. Thus, a somewhat masculinized woman is more feminine than a more masculinized woman.

You mention that according to your research, newborn boys and newborn girls differ in only genitals and finger lengths. Firstly, this of little relevance here given that I am not addressing neonates. Secondly, there are other differences that you have not come across and plenty of differences that have yet to be cataloged. For instance, newborn boys and girls differ with respect to subcutaneous fat:

The reference immediately above also documents that neonate boys are heavier and longer than neonate girls. Additionally, controlling for femur length, newborn boys and newborn girls differ with respect to head circumference:

You write that professional photographs cannot be compared to pornographic pictures. Where is the pornography at this site? Nudity does not qualify as pornography unless you appeal to some community standards, but the problem with community standards is that even pictures of women in bikinis will qualify as pornography if the community comprises of Moslems. Pornography is the depiction of sexual activity for the purposes of titillation, and is not a feature of this site. As I have pointed out previously, I have little choice at present but to seek pictures of feminine women from adult-oriented sources, thanks to the gay domination of the fashion business.

You write that it is difficult to determine the femininity of a woman if her backside is in your face. This is absurd. You need to look at a woman’s backside to see how feminine it is, and I am not featuring close-ups of backsides that obscure the waist and legs, thereby making it difficult to judge femininity.

You describe Lucie as high-cheekboned, small-breasted and flat-bottomed. This would be a correct description of her if you were comparing her to an obese woman with lower cheekbones, but Lucie is much more feminine than your typical high-fashion model. And, where did you get the impression that Lucie has a protruding ribcage?

Sandy looks transsexual to you? Then the fashion models in the sexy fashion models page, with the exception of Josie Moran, qualify as masculine men in drag. Both such characterizations are obviously incorrect, and your statement appears to be a bad case of sour grapes. Besides, none of the women shown in the attractive women section look like boys.

Katie does not look underage. All the glamour models shown are at least 18, as per the U.S.C. 2257 statement of compliance available at the sources of the pictures. On the other hand, you should be aware that many high-fashion models are under age 18.

You describe a masculine woman as one that has lower voice, notable body hair and abnormal growth of muscle mass, which could only be achieved through male hormone therapy. Your description is that of a very masculine woman, an anabolic-steroid-abusing female bodybuilder to be more precise. On the other hand, if one were to assess, say, 20 anthropometric variables related to physical sexual dimorphism, then a bipolar scale (feminine at one end and masculine at the other) will clearly emerge, and it will be seen that even among women who lie toward the feminine end of the scale, some are more feminine than others. Therefore, it is not difficult to compare women in terms of being more feminine or more masculine overall as long as there is not a very close call, but the comparison of high-fashion models and the glamour models shown within the attractive women section of this site does not even approach a close call; which of these groups is more masculine is unambiguously clear.

You say that models are women and no woman is perfect. This is indeed true, and it would be easy to come up with a long list of imperfections in the women featured in the attractive women section of this site, but the point remains that the great majority of people prefer feminine-looking women to masculine-looking women, and will find the glamour models shown here much better looking on average than high-fashion models.

You say that homosexual males experience a desire to be like women in appearance and behavior. Well, whereas feminine mannerisms are a group-level correlate of male homosexuality, there is great inter-individual variability with respect to feminine mannerism among male homosexuals. Some homosexual men are not feminine on any count, and a curious mix of feminine and hypermasculine traits is not unusual among male homosexuals. Only a minority of homosexual men actually desire to be women.

You ascribe the looks of high-fashion models to what the public considers beautiful and economic considerations. Why have you ignored the scientific literature that I have cited, which clearly shows that most people find the skinniness typically seen in high-fashion models socially unacceptable and also that most people strongly prefer feminine looks in women? As I have pointed out previously, the high desirability of designer clothing means that even if unattractive women are generally chosen to model high fashion wear, sales will not diminish. For instance, if unattractive women were universally used to sell toilet paper, it is unlikely that people will either reduce their use of or stop using toilet paper. It is naïve to believe that public desire is responsible for why high-fashion models are typically skinny and masculine. As to what kind of women look up to high-fashion models to learn about what constitutes attractiveness, some clueless women do, and it is partly a goal of this site to provide these women with proper education.

You say that my standards are narrow-minded and sexist, and that the 21st century is one of diversity. I don’t understand what is sexist within this site, and as to diversity, I appreciate diversity, but this site is about aesthetics and there is little diversity in aesthetically pleasing looks.

We've decided to answer your nonsense because Isabella is not here today. First of all models cannot be considered "masculinized women" because masculinization is a process of changing womans body and a development of male characteristics in female. Do you think models take steroids or hormons??? You accuse models of being "masculinized", how do you think this so called masculinization happened to them? Obviously you don't have a clue what masculinization means, it is an abnormal development of male characteristecs in the female usually as a result of hormone therapies or adrenal malfunction.
Your examples of feminine beauty are unacceptable and purely sexist. You show women with rounder features and you are trying to convince us that they are more feminine then models who clearly have different body types. According to you and other many sexist man they are not sexually desirable because they don't fit your description of "feminine woman" or should we say a woman regarded primarly as the focus of sexual attraction.According to you feminine equals fuckable. You are vicious, degrading and most of all stereotyping of how and what is feminine according to you. Obviously man find these models feminine because for example Vodianova married a billionare Prince, Gisele dated Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Moss was the girlfriend of Johnny Deep....dou you think these man would date masculine women? We don't think so. On the other hand we think that man with more taste, the ones that don't see women only as a sex objects and will not comment on her boobs, backside and so on, prefer to date a model to a porn star. The truth is that you are wrong and your site promotes hate towards models and most of all homosexuals and homosexual designers. Yes we love models, we think they are feminine, we love fashion designers and their clothing and we assure you that we are not clueless and the only clueless people are the naked girls on your site. Please if you don't have anything better to do educate them about the dangers of sexual exploitation because clearly they are in dangers of being used as sex objects. Here is an idea of a good site for you Eric. Something that would help humanity and prevent young women from being used and abused.
Please close this hate site and help some good cause......Please don't write back we are too busy to respond just accept our opinion and if you don't understand what sexist is at this point then you probably never will.
Bianca and Alex

Bianca and Alex: I need to respond to your comment for a number of reasons, including the fact that several people will be going through this page and also because whereas I have been called many things, sexist is new. If you are busy, then take your time to reply back. You have repeated Isabella’s argument about masculinization in women. I recommend that you go through the eating disorders page and look at Fig 3 and read the materials around it. You will encounter evidence related to sex hormone variation in women. Note that normal variation in sex hormone levels is sufficient to produce varying levels of masculinity-femininity in women.

You say that high-fashion models have a clearly different body type than the rounder-featured glamour models. You are right about the different body type of high-fashion models, and it is labeled a masculine body type.

How can it be sexist for a heterosexual man to find women who look like adolescent boys or male transvestites sexually undesirable? Do you not understand what heterosexuality is about? More importantly, if you read about the importance of femininity to beauty in women, it will become clear than men and women judge the attractiveness and femininity of women similarly. Therefore, sexual appeal is not a necessary component of judgment of attractiveness and femininity because heterosexual women judge these variables in women like heterosexual men do. Additionally, as I have mentioned previously, whereas there is some subjectivity as to what one finds attractive, masculinity-femininity of physical appearance is easily assessed in an objective manner.

You mention masculinized and unattractive women such as Natalia Vodianova, Gisele Bundchen and Kate Moss ending up with rich and famous men, and then infer that these rich men found these models feminine. This is an incorrect inference. The only thing that can be inferred here is that the rich men found these women attractive. There are plenty of nonheterosexual men out there, most of whom hide their nonheterosexuality. Assuming that all the rich men involved are not lifetime-exclusive heterosexuals, the most plausible explanation is that these men partly found the models attractive because of their masculinization. Of course, one cannot be sure about the sexual orientation of these men, but it should be clear that your inference that the rich men have found these women to be feminine does not follow from the data that you mention.

How is this site promoting hate against high-fashion models? Why should people start hating high-fashion models after better appreciating how masculine and skinny these women typically are? Similarly, why should people end up hating homosexuals just because a miniscule number of them are creating some problems? It is another matter that a number of people will acquire a negative view of top-ranked gay fashion designers in general after going through this site, but these gays are creating problems that need to be corrected, and what other options are there apart from educating the public?

You say that the nude models featured here are in danger of being used as sex objects. Here is some news for you: these women typically enjoy nude modeling, often finding the notion of men ogling at their nude images arousing, and are not being abused.

hehehe! nice to see such a debate!
if i ever write something about those issues, i'll quote this page for sure.

anyway, comparing daria with that cindy or whatever her name is ... is like comparing the moon with a chistmas tree ball.
of course daria is physically ambiguous, feline, masculine, it's a part of her charme and the reason why she has more fans between women than men (although most of the pics in this site date back to ss05 shows, when she was overthin, later she's gained weight again).
but you don't need to look for pornostars to get a different kind of beauty around. there's plenty of actresses, commercial models, celebrities and the range of beauty is wide, you can easily find what you're looking for on tv, mags...
and this is only about the most superficial level of this site. about the deepest let me say that if you consider female beauty only as a matter of measures, breast and butt...

Dariafan: Given Daria’s high status, she may be able to maintain her weight gain without suffering much loss of modeling assignments for the same reason that Gisele Bundchen can get away with some of her weight gain compared to when she started out, but for girls starting out as high-fashion models or those lacking the status of Daria, this is not a luxury they can afford.

High-fashion models are best compared to other models rather than non-model celebrities. When it comes to non-model celebrities such as actresses, few of them are good examples of feminine beauty, and when one comes across some good examples, most of the pictures available are of the face, few pictures can be found showing their physiques clearly enough for a proper evaluation of aesthetics, and pictures of the backside of these women are not easy to come by. Therefore, why bother with non-model celebrities? Of course, if I come across some decent-looking non-model celebrities, I will feature them. Regarding the measures related to beauty in women, one does not need to describe beauty in quantitative terms, but quantitative data are needed to minimize accusations of subjectivity.

I just want to tell you that if I didn't have a steady girlfriend, I would do anything and everything to get to be with Daria. I mean have her as my steady girlfriend. I was in Toronto and they were filming a special about her on City TV the other day, and man, let me tell you she looks fabulous!!! I think you mainly get your data from her older photos as Dariafan says, because she currently looks reallllly sexxxyyy!!! (Honey, if you're reading this I love you very much, and I'm glad I'm with you!!!) I really don't understand Eric where you're getting your info, and I'm actually starting to doubt that you're a man because so far any man I have asked find models like Daria very sexy, and it has nothing to do with them not being heterosexual as you say, "There are plenty of nonheterosexual men out there, most of whom hide their nonheterosexuality. Assuming that all the rich men involved are not lifetime-exclusive heterosexuals, the most plausible explanation is that these men partly found the models attractive because of their masculinization.", I don't agree with that. I have plenty "non-heterosexual" friends that also find Daria and models like her non-masculine and sexy. I'm actually beginning to think that even if you are a man, that you are not able to get classy girls like Daria to be your girlfriend, and find it easier to go out with women that are like a hooker or a porno-star, you know, fake tits, ass, botox lips, etc. because they are easier to lay, and I underline "easy". I repeat myself Eric, I met Daria in person in Toronto at City TV, and she is very, and I mean VERY feminine. You better re-evaluate your standards man. Or are you a man? I mean you can be a feminine man who is jealous of beauty or something. Cheers be to Daria and her feminine beauty...

i'm happy you like daria, but i don't think you need to be a heterosexual man to like daria or a woman to dislike daria. me, i'm a woman and daria is my total ideal of beauty made real. and if you go through forums and sites devoted to her, you'll find out that for every man who likes her, there're at least 5 girls who do it.
so, regardless of his statistics that make me think of positivism, i don't understand why eric should be a woman not to like her.

Alex: Ever come across a woman named Erik? FYI, I am not hiding behind a pseudonym. Anyway, I am neither looking to date women who look like Daria Werbowy nor women who have the fake, pornstar looks you mention. A woman who exemplifies the fake, pornstar looks you describe is Pamela Anderson, and you should read what I have to say about her looks. Daria Werbowy and Pamela Anderson are neither feminine nor attractive; the relative lack of femininity is an objective judgment here, but the attractiveness rating varies from person to person. However, Pamela Anderson has been popular among many heterosexual men. This shows that there are plenty of clueless heterosexual men out there who need better education about feminine beauty. Similarly, some clueless heterosexual men who have not seen enough of Daria Werbowy may find her attractive, but her looks are the kind that mostly appeal to nonheterosexual men, nonheterosexual women and women leaning toward anorexia. Some weight gain on her part will not make her masculinized skeleton feminine, though it would make her look better.

well, again, i think that if you look for an anorexic model you don't have to mention daria. she was skinny in ss05 shows, but that was an exception. she's slender and she has narrow hips, but she's far from being skinny.
i agree that she's naturally androgynous despite her (natural) breast - see this recent pic:

so i understand you may not like her in an 'average heterosexual' taste, but she isn't the anorexic type.

This is exactly my point, that you don't have to be a heterosexual to like Daria. My other point is against what Eric says that one would have to be a non-heterosexual who hides their non-heterosexuality in order to like models like Daria, who have masculine features. All I'm saying is that I have met Daria in person recently, and there is nothing masculine about her. I'm a heterosexual, not a nonheterosexual, and I do not need better education on feminine beauty as Eric puts it. I take that as an insult because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you don't have to be just a man to appreciate beauty. I know plenty of men who find Daria beautiful and feminine, and a lot of women that feel the same way. As I said earlier, Daria is very feminine the way she looks now, and she is so beautiful. Maybe Eric needs glasses or something or better education himself on feminine beauty. Under no circumstances am I claiming to be an expert on feminine beauty myself, all I am portraying is that I, along with many of my male and female friends alike find Daria to be feminine and beautiful, and that there is nothing masculine about her. In regards to my comments about Eric possibly being an "Erica" instead of "Eric" is based on the notion that many women are competitive, and dislike other women who are more beautiful and successful than they are... and that it is possible that is the reason why Eric dislikes Daria so much. I apologize if I offended you as a woman Dariafan. I hope that my explanations clear me with you as I am on your side on this heated debate about how good Daria looks.

I'm glad we have one thing in common, and that is we both agree that Pamela Anderson is not beautiful nor feminine. But it's too bad that you're still stuck with the notion that Daria isn't, but that's you, and no one can blame you for it. But you should not classify Daria in the same category as Pam Anderson as she looks nothing like Daria. In regards to your question about me coming across a woman named Eric, if you really want me to answer that, the answer is yes. Infact, her real name was Erica, but she wanted her girlfriends and man friends to call her Eric. So, it's quite possible that you are also a woman.
In regards to many "clueless heterosexual man who need better education on feminine beauty" as you call it, I feel you fit into that category if you are a man. In regards to nonheterosexual men and women and men who lean towards anorexic women as beautiful, Daria is far from being anorexic, infact, if you ever met her in person, she has a very feminine musculature and skelatal structure, and your data on who find her attractive are totally misjudged on your part, because I started a petition at work, and so far all heterosexual men and women, and nonheterosexual men and women alike find her feminine and beautiful, and I have over 3000 people working at the office on four levels of the building, and I only got to my peers on my floor. So, Eric, I repeat my plea for you to go and educate yourself further on feminine beauty. Take art or something, draw, and learn to appreciate beauty no matter if it looks masculine or feminine to your eyes. I do agree with you that there are some models out there that do have masculine looks, but Daria Werbowy is not one of them. Don't be a Daria hater, and don't try to influence other people on how you feel about Daria and Models like her. Daria is a hot one!

My boyfriend Alex wrote to you about Daria Werbowy and I wish to add something to this discussion.
I must say that I came to a conclusion that you don't know much about women, femininity, masculinization and other issues that you speak about. All women come in different shapes and sizes and you can find some so called "masculine" features in every woman but the way you describe models it's an insult to womankind. Every woman is feminine if she wants to be, femininity is more a behaviour then shape. But the one thing that you have really missed, and I can tell that you have no idea what masculinization is. Please look it up in the dictionary or copy it from someone else's works just like you are using other peoples' ideas and words. You sound smart but you are really not very intelligent because you insist that you know better then everybody else and you don't accept their ideas of feminine beauty. Why do you think you are such an expert? Why do you think you can judge Daria's body and call it masculine when so many people told you they don't have the same opinion as you do. Do you ever consider that you are simply wrong? And maybe you just don't know anything about feminine beauty. I have serious doubts about you, your knowledge, and the reasons why you decided to run this website. Your examples of feminine beauty are insults to women and if I have to look like them to be found feminine by you or man like you I rather not be a woman at all.
It seems to me that you may be a pervert who loves nudity and naked girls pictures because that is all you are posting to back up your arguments.
Noel

i didn't think of posting here again, but your post was so nice that i'm here again to say you 'hi'. :-)
well, probably we like daria for opposit reasons. the thing is that i find her rather adrogynous. of course i've never met her, but i saw plenty of videos and pics. if you see candids, when she is more natural, it's just the way she moves, she talks, she sits... and also physically, if you see her from behind or just her face with no make-up... but at the same time she's very sweet, so she makes it more feminine.
i wonder if you met her in an official situation, where she played the game.
bye! :-))

Dariafan: Women leaning toward anorexia appear to disproportionately like masculinized women. Daria does not have to be skinny for several of them to like her. Daria does look better in the picture because of the weight gain, but more important to this thread is the extent to which her backside has improved. See if you can find an appropriate picture.

Alex: I have not said that one has to be nonheterosexual to like Daria; I have said that Daria’s looks disproportionately appeal to nonheterosexuals. You say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This is true to some extent, but masculinity-femininity can be assessed using objective criteria, and Daria is not among the ranks of feminine women, as her skeletal structure clearly shows, and I have cited enough anthropological evidence on the feminine vs. masculine page to back up this claim.

It is not the case that I dislike or hate Daria; I just don’t like her looks, but the point of this entry is to compare a top-ranked high-fashion model’s backside with that of a glamour model to provide additional evidence for the strong gay influence in the fashion business.

I am not a woman, and even if I were, it is highly unlikely that I would want to look like Daria; I would prefer more feminine looks.

Noel: You say that women come in different shapes and sizes. Of course, but so what? There is not much diversity among the highly aesthetically pleasing, and I will be adding more materials on aesthetics to elaborate on this point further. You say that one can find so-called masculine features in every woman. Well, I have pointed out that masculinity-femininity should be assessed by examining a cluster of traits, not individual traits, given that sex hormones are only partly responsible for trait variation. Cluster analysis will easily separate more masculine from more feminine women.

You say that my description of models is an insult to womankind. How can this be? Models do not represent women in general. To point out the shortcomings of the looks of a model or to praise the looks of another model is not to insult women. This site is not about how women are supposed to look like; it is about aesthetics and focuses on the looks of models and beauty pageant contestants. The vast majority of women do not have to look like the feminine and attractive women that I have shown in order to get a man interested in them; in fact, some men will sleep with almost anything that it is possible to sleep with.

You say that femininity is more about behavior than shape. Well, this site has nothing to do with the masculinity-femininity of behavior; this site addresses looks. You say that I don’t accept other people’s idea of what constitutes feminine beauty. Like I have said before, there are individual differences when it comes to what one finds attractive, and it is hardly productive to argue over this, but masculinity-femininity of physical appearance is a matter of objective analysis, and I have cited plenty of anthropological evidence in this regard. Nobody has addressed the anthropological data that I have cited, let alone refuted it and you just expect me to take other people’s word as to what is feminine?

You ask what makes me think that I am an expert? Where have I claimed to be an expert? There is no rocket science here, and no expertise is needed to come up with this site. If you think that I am just posting pictures of nude women to make my case, you definitely need to carefully go through this site; you will find plenty of scientific data, among other things. Besides, since when has an interest in attractive women in their natural element become a perversion?

I'm a feminist and I appreciate this site very much. Being non-white in the United States (Native American) I have seen and experienced first hand many of the beauty factors you describe so well on this site. Even my traditional Navajo grandparents who spoke no English and lived in a remote location deep on the reservation would make loud their preferences to the phenotypes you describe for their grandchildren. They were very disappointed that my mother (who is a proud possess of a Navajo version of the "beauty mask") did not pass her looks on to her daughters, who all look like their Sioux, Plains Indian Northern father. We had a fashion show (in the desert!) and my sisters and are, who are considered pretty in the mainstream American suburban world and no problem dating and finding successful, handsome white husbands, were not chose because we didn't look like our cousins (who look like my mother). Even though my dad was and is a wonderful father, and my cousin's dads were deadbeat drunks, they did not value him because he looked more like Sitting Bull (his ancestor) than like their Navajo ideal.

Taking apart they whole beauty construct is cool to see. I think some folks have difficulty dealing with male sexuality. I also think many heterosexual young men buy into this high fashion beauty ideal, because it is so well packaged.

I have to admit that I myself have a preference for the stronger features of super models. The jawline and jutting cheekbones. Certainly, as a Native American, my cheekbones are some of my dearest possessions.

Beauty is, however, more than just body measurements. I saw in my high school, that a Filipino girl was more highly regarded as beautiful than her blonde, perfect side kick. Her nose was wider, she was shorter, but when she looked up and smiled their was something that outshone her Euro-American friend. And everyone (mostly white adolescent males) saw that and pursued her.

Hi! At first I´ve got to say that I´m from Spain so , sorry for my english...
I think there are more important things to do than spend your time criticising models...they´re just doing their work! It´s true that lots of models have eating disorders , but not all of them!! I´ve been working as a model since I was 12 years old , an I´ve always been a thin girl , and obviously I´m not perfect( nobody is) , you can see the bones of my shoulders , but in my hips there are no signs of any bones you know...I eat all kind of food , but I´m care about eating too much sweets or too much fried food...the 90% of the food I normally have is home-made food , lots of fruit and vegetables. And I drink a a lot of water. I go to the gym with a personal trainer once hour every day.
As you can see , my habits are not very different from the other´s ones.And related to boys , there are boys who say " hey you´re so beautiful I love your face or your body" abd there are other boys who say "your face is ok , but you´re so thin...you should gain weight".
And that´s all! I love fashion and for me is a pleasure to let my image for a designer , just because I think that gigs they create are pieces of art! Every skirt , every t-shirt , shoes...they spend hours working on them...and they spend hours too thinking about who could be the girl or the boy who best represents the spirit of that creation...so please...stop talking that way!Do you mind if a designer is homosexual or heterosexual? Do you mind if Daria has a skinny body? Look at yourself and try to improve the bad things that exist in your personality or in your body...but let the others do whatever they want to do...
(sorry again for my writing...I know it´s really bad , so I´ll try to learn more in order to explain this kind of things better)

Isabel: It is not your fault that English is not your native language, but I have understood what you are trying to convey. To view this entry as an attempt to criticize the looks of a high-fashion model is to miss the point since such criticism would be a useless endeavor. The point is to get people to think about what kind of people appreciate the looks of the likes Daria Werbowy, as shown above, to make her a top-ranked high-fashion model. These people surely have highly atypical aesthetic preferences, and their preferences are causing numerous problems. It needs to be pointed out that the fashion people involved are male homosexuals so that fewer women are convinced that attractiveness lies in skinniness and subsequently end up indulging in negative health behaviors such as unnecessary dieting to acquire the skinny look. Like you have said, some fashion models eat well and remain skinny and healthy, which appears to be your description, but others starve themselves to comply with industry requirements, and they shouldn’t have to do this. It is necessary to force the fashion industry to stop using models below the threshold of underweight unless it proves that the women involved eat adequately and are healthy. This requires that the looks of high-fashion models be addressed and other issues discussed within this site brought to the attention of the general public. The purpose of this entry is not to criticize the looks of Daria Werbowy.

You keep saying that 'people overwhelmingly prefer feminine women to masculine women.' Okay. So what? That doesn't mean that women with 'masculine' features are any less attractive.

'I have already pointed out that the gay domination of the fashion business is so extensive that one has no choice but to seek pictures of attractive and feminine women from adult-oriented sources.' Umm.....what?! Have you ignored the who slew of actresses out there? And even singers! Jennifer Aniston! Kelly Clarkson! Audrey Tautuo! Kelli Garner! There are plenty of sources you can get 'feminine' pictures from that aren't disgusting porn sites.

Kris: When most people prefer feminine to masculine women, it obviously means that masculine women are less attractive than feminine women from the perspective of the majority.

Among the women that you have named, Kelli Garner is the only one who is feminine, and I will see if I can find pictures of her in a bikini. Since you mentioned Jennifer Aniston and Kelly Clarkson, I hope that you spend some time browsing this site; you need the education.

Just because the majority thinks something, doesn't mean they are automatically correct. It's commen sense.

As for Jennifer Aniston and Kelly Clarkson, that's my point! Jennifer Aniston is considered to be one of the most beautiful woman by many people. And Angelina Jolie, she has slightly masculine features, and there's no denying that she's considered one of the most attrative women.

In general, i think that it all comes down to personal taste. Eric i agree with your point, you hit the nail on the head, but i think it's rude to imply that men who prefer more masculinized women may have a gay inclination, besides, women in general are a mixture of femeninity and masculinity, there is no one in this world that ranks perfect on femeninity or masculinity.

PS: I am interested to see your opinion in male attractiveness, I also think there is too much pressure on womens looks these days.

Kris: I agree that majority beliefs are not necessarily correct, but we are discussing preferences. The majority aesthetically prefers feminine beauty to women who are normal or masculinized. Said in a different way, the majority of people generally find women with above average femininity better looking than women with average to below average femininity.

When you consider the appeal of celebrities, you need to take into account the halo effect of personality and fame. If Jennifer Aniston were an ordinary woman, do you think most people would find her physically attractive? Slight masculinization is usually not an aesthetic problem in women from a majority perspective and it is a correlate of their sexiness to heterosexual men. A young adult Angelina Jolie looked sexy in many of her pictures and given her having acted in many movies, she is expected to have plenty of male admirers.

Elizabeth: Starting from the average level of masculinization in women, beyond some level of masculinization increase, the odds that men who find these women attractive either have a homosexual component to their interests or have narrowly escaped nonheterosexuality increase. I don’t see how it is rude to point out something that needs to be mentioned and should be obvious anyway. What do you mean that women in general are a mix of femininity and masculinity?

My opinion on male attractiveness is similar to that of most women, i.e., better looking men tend to be taller than average and have a more masculine physical build.

It is very convenient that you chose a picture of Daria when she was at her very thinnest to compare to that nasty girl. I admit that Daria would be unattractive to most men and women in those shots but you have once again made yourself into the homophobic court jester by choosing to compare her to Cindy.

Cindy is not a skeletor but she still looks like a minging street junkie/whore. She has a jaundiced skin tone, stringy, greasy hair, yellowing teeth and a bizarre hitleresque bikini wax. She reminds me of a strung out runaway who desperately needs a good scrubbing. I will say it again, you have awful taste. A healthier Daria would be chosen by most people over this girl in an instant.

Daria usually looks clean, fresh, cool and elegant. She looks like a girl that women can be friends with and who men would want to marry. Cindy looks like she spends her days in and out of jail or shelters for selling herself at $15 a pop at a truckstop. She has to finance her crack addiction you see.

I also wonder why you keep blurring out the areolas of your skanky "models." Is this some bizarre demonstration of modesty. I would greatly prefer if you blurred most of the greying, redneck vulvas on display. No one wants to see their ravaged goods. I sure others would echo this sentiment.

Erik what i meant was that the majority of women have some degree of masculinity in their body or their face. For example Grace Kelly beautiful woman, but dont you agree that her jawline was somewhat masculine? The majority of women in the world have at least one flaw in their physical appearance, and i don't think the "perfect" woman or man for that matter exists.

Danielle: At her thin self shown above, Daria was a top-ranked high-fashion model (#1, ranked by models.com, when this article was posted). Her pictures are only a few months older than the date of the entry. Therefore, the pictures illustrate well what the homosexual designers like compared to what the general public prefers. Dariafan posted a picture of Daria when she had gained weight. Guess what happened to her high-fashion model status ranking with the weight gain?

The mild censorship of Cindy should be self-explanatory. The images are for educational purposes, not titillation. There was no need to censor the woman’s groin because you cannot observe the genitals to any significant degree.

Elizabeth: I agree that Grace Kelly had a slight masculine look to her face, especially pertaining to her jaw. Since feminine women are fewer in number than normal and masculinized women combined, the majority of women will be more masculine than the feminine looks I am promoting. It is obvious that perfection does not exist among humans, but this is not to say that one shouldn’t be aiming for high standards among beauty pageant contestants and models.

You believe that Daria fell in high fashion rankings because she gained weight? Her star was growing steadily before she lost weight, she was everywhere (a big contract with Prada) before the pounds started coming off. I believe she took a temporary hiatus from modeling shortly after her thinnest season ended. She might have done it to recover from an eating disorder or maybe she was exhausted from work which may have contributed to her weight loss. A hiatus is just as valid a reason for not being at the top spot at models.com.

By the way, models.com is not, imo, a reliable list of top models to base your theories on. They often rank according to hype not necessarily to the amount of contracts, shows and cash that the models rack up. Take for example, Malgosia Bela, who is inexplicably #3 on the top model list. The amount of work she gets is not comparable to a lot of the other models below her like Doutzen Kroes, Caroline Trentini and Jessica Stam. The amount of work that these girls get in a month, makes all the work that she got after she reappeared on the fashion scene look pitiful. She was a popular model in the 90s and was hyped when she reemerged from a LONG hiatus. That's why she is on top. So please, if you know nothing about the fashion industry or what models are doing then don't try to rank them or explain why they aren't as popular.

PS. I can see some of that woman's nasty vulva. If you can see the lips that means that the genitals need to be blurred.

Danielle: Models.com seems to be a good source of fashion model rankings. In a recent issue of Vogue, Anna Wintour talked about ten outstanding high-fashion models that deserve to be promoted like the supermodels of the 1990s, and models.com’s top picks are in excellent agreement with her picks. Models.com has said that its rankings are based on the selections of the clients, daily call sheets of big-name fashion photographers and campaigns and contracts with big brands, not mere hype. Its rankings may not agree 100% with those of others insiders, but there is bound to be good broad agreement.

Daria could have taken a temporary semi-break because she was tired of the dieting/couldn’t take it anymore, but she was at her modeling peak at her thinnest. Since you seem to know a few things about the fashion business, take a good look at the large picture posted by Darifan and tell me how likely would it be for a high-fashion model to remain at the very top among high-fashion models if she is as fat?

I think I should post the video excerpt that is the source of the snapshots shown above. This will do a better job of revealing the homosexuals’ mindset.

I don’t see the lips of Cindy; a patch of hair is covering it. Hence there is no need for me to censor her groin.

Most of the girls on Models.com get a lot of work. I don't disagree with who is on the lists. I disagree with who is ranked above the other girls. I disagree with these models.com rankings because some of the girls at the top seem to do far less shows and are in far less editorials than the girls who are lower than them.

Malgosia Bela, Doutzen Kroes and Julia Stegner are just as heavy, if not more so, as Daria was in that picture and they are in the top spots on that models.com list right now. I guess that girls who are as "fat" as Daria was in that picture can be ranked at the top on that list.

I am thinking that you may be talking about Vouge's May 2007 issue when you mention Anna Wintour's picks as the next supermodels. I agree that most of the girls that she picked are getting a lot of work right now. With the exception of Chanel Iman, they are all very popular. She put Doutzen Kroes, Lily Donaldson, Hilary Rhoda, Sasha Pivovarova, Caroline Trentini, Chanel Iman, Raquel Zimmermann, Jessica Stam, Coco Rocha, and Agyness Deyn on the May cover.

I ask you to look at the cover of that issue and refer back to the models.com list. You will see that some girls like Iselin Steiro, Julia Stegner and Malgosia Bela are above them all. These womena are still more popular right now than most models will ever be, but their workload is far smaller than some of the girls that are ranked below them right now.

The popularity of models aren't always based on how anorexic or "boyish" they look. Model popularity and success is more based on having a good agent who can convince industry people that you're worth a damn, being at the right agency, schmoozing with the right industry people and just pure luck.

The fashion industry is made up of all kinds of people. "The homosexuals" don't run the industry like a dictatorship and only allow the the most "boyish" women in their company. There are many editors, photographers, socialites and fianancial backers (straight, white men. *GASP*) who are just as influential as "the homosexuals" themselves.

As I have said, time and tme again, at the end of the day all the models, "the homosexuals," the editors and the socialites have to answer to straight white men or in other words, the MONEY. Straight, white men own and finance the fashion labels, the fashion magazines, the modeling agencies and they put the money in the hands of their spoilt, socialite wives who buy and influence high fashion products. If you want to change the industry then take it up with them just like everyone else has to.

Danielle: When you are comparing lists, you need to consider the extent of agreement. 8 of the 10 women chosen by Anna Wintour were also among the top 10 in model.com’s list. Wintour’s choice, Agyness Deyn, was ranked close to #10 in model.com’s list around the time of the Vogue edition’s publication. This is an example of excellent agreement. The only oddity is Chanel Iman, and on the part of Anna Wintour, which is probably political correctness at work; people may otherwise complain about the absence of colored women.

The amount of work is not the only consideration, but the quality of work matters, too, in determining model rankings. Malgosia Bela is older and heavier, but with a more masculine face than Daria’s, she could get away with the extra weight. From what I have seen of Julia Stegner, she doesn’t appear to be as heavy as Daria in the picture posted by her fan. If Doutzen appears to be an exception, then you need to consider the general pattern; one exception here and there does not undermine the general pattern.

A good agent is obviously important for a high-fashion model’s success, but this agent will be more successful at marketing his models if they look more like adolescent boys.

There are indeed plenty of people apart from homosexual men in the fashion industry, but the most important people are the designers because the whole industry revolves around their work, and the top ranks of the designers are dominated by homosexual men. Therefore, the aesthetic preferences of these homosexuals are the chief determinant of the central tendency of the looks of high-fashion models.

I still have issue with using models from glamour sites who are in most part surgically enhanced and still slim. The models are thin.

So, despite your "attempt" to rally for the feminine ideal, you have failed, because you have boxed once again that feminine sexiness comes in a playboy or glamour model's body.

Frankly, I find many of the glamour model's faces to be incredibly boring looking..there is not incredibly beautiful or interesting. Yes, some high fashion models look masculine, but wow what cheekbones. They are uniquely beautiful.

If you have shown curvy bodies that were real with som real padding around the hips, not models that are not beyond a size 4, then this would have merited some worthwhile in the feminine ideal.

Instead, it is still stuck with the fantasy of playboy model as the ideal.

Nice attempt though. You get a star for effort, but it clearly misses the mark.

You keep saying "what heterosexual men prefers" and "what nonheterosexual men prefer" but you don't list any studies or ratings. are you sure that it's the majority opinions? not your own? And you keep saying that supermodels look like adolescent boys. Some would agree, but not all of them. Again, are you sure you have ratings of these specific photos that you've shown? not your own opinions. And you keep referring to the "study of feminine beauty", what the heck is that? And I thinkt the comment bout daria's backside being not sexy, i think that was rather a opinionated comment, rather than a proven fact. ( I think Daria has a pretty backside, very girly and Barbieish ^_^) I also hoped that there are some sort of testing and expertise and evaluation going behind these articles, and that it's not run by one person. You do make some good point though :)

If you dont mind i have to ask what kind of beauty ideal do the Navajo like?It may just be me but you are not clear.Is it a more feminine like what Erik likes or more like the supermodels? Just curious to know what native americans find to be pretty.I would think it would be a darker women that has a lot of the same looks as what Erik likes.Most men of any color seem to like sweet and curvy looking women.