I guess I'm not all that concerned about ending up in court. I'm laid back, but obviosly not laid back enough. If my wife and kids were with me I would not yell back, as a matter of fact 95% of the time I bite my tongue even when I'm alone. I always have always will. If its not the right thing to do it is the polite thing to do. Its the quiet guy in the corner you have to watch. I'm not going to show the thugs my cards until I know we are playing his game. I CC responsibly that doesn't mean I have to run from everyone. It does mean I need to know my rights, the laws as they are written and unstood in KS.

This is a scenairio, and mayde I am learning a thing or two, maybe not.

I am one who believes I have a RIGHT to be in whatever place I am... So, I might go to what some would consider "stupid places." Whether it's a venue for my favorite music (blues), or an ATM on the way home from work at 11:00 pm. I have a right to be there just as anyone else. I am cautious and discrete about it... And I remain alert. I am not looking for trouble. But if it comes my way, I am as prepared for it as I can be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConcealedG30

I believe that six guys of a different race getting out of two different cars and coming at you in an aggressive nature after hollering derogatory remarks warrants a good but whooping. I carry a knife and two guns. I usually leave the sticks and harsh words at home.

I agree, they need a good whoopin'. But, that was their parent's place long before they were old enough to drive. And, I ain't gonna call 'em out for their deserved whoopin'. If they come at me with NO provocation... that's a different story.

Reminds me of an old story... I used to drive a little Subaru 360. That's a Volkswagen-bug-shaped car about half the size of the original beetle. It had a 360 CC 2 Cycle engine. 10" wheels. Entire car weighed 850 lbs... really.

I was at a stop sign, just starting to pull out. A big ol' Lincoln beater was coming the other way, and ignored his stop sign, turning left in front of me. I mouthed some choice epithets...

He pulled a u turn and came after me...

At the next stop sign we both came to, he got out of his car, and started coming towards me from behind... He was a short feller, probably drove his big ol' car to compensate for his lack of stature in one way or another. As he was coming up, I got out of my little car... I'm 6'2" about 225 lb. (And was NOT carrying at the time) I asked him if he needed something... His eyes got a little too big, and he turned around and went back to his car, mumbling to his own self...

As many have said, don't yell insults back. Either ignore them or look them in the eye and smile. .

For some idiots, being looked at in the eye is as much a challenge as giving the finger. Its best not to look at their face unless you want to push things.

Moreover, you can react faster to their moves if you focus your attention on the triangular region made by the shoulders and bottom of the sternum. They can't make a move without you seeing it first in that location. You'll see the early motion in the pectoral muscles. So no, don't stare anyone in the face. It might provoke them and it also will keep you from missing the first early signs of an aggressive move.

There is another physiologically important aspect of focusing your eyes on the chest. Just as when we drive we steer toward where we are looking, if you must draw you will instinctively point right at what you are looking at. A bozo who has never trained and is looking for respect will think you are looking down and away from him and giving him respect. He'll never know you are giving yourself the advantage.

September 7th, 2011, 07:23 PM

BugDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guantes

I would not yell back at them.

I would draw down and challenge them at about 20 to 25 feet. If they came on or produced weapons, some people would get shot. I have had twenty or better people coming down on me and they quickly decided that they had business elsewhere with the display of a weapon and convincing dialog.

I have no desire to shoot/kill any (more) people, nor am I reluctant to do so if required.

^^^ This!!! ^^^

September 7th, 2011, 07:33 PM

Gene83

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakchas

Sure, disparity of force... but the OP brought it on... sort of.

I am one who believes I have a RIGHT to be in whatever place I am... So, I might go to what some would consider "stupid places." Whether it's a venue for my favorite music (blues), or an ATM on the way home from work at 11:00 pm. I have a right to be there just as anyone else. I am cautious and discrete about it... And I remain alert. I am not looking for trouble. But if it comes my way, I am as prepared for it as I can be.

I agree, they need a good whoopin'. But, that was their parent's place long before they were old enough to drive. And, I ain't gonna call 'em out for their deserved whoopin'. If they come at me with NO provocation... that's a different story.

Reminds me of an old story... I used to drive a little Subaru 360. That's a Volkswagen-bug-shaped car about half the size of the original beetle. It had a 360 CC 2 Cycle engine. 10" wheels. Entire car weighed 850 lbs... really.

I was at a stop sign, just starting to pull out. A big ol' Lincoln beater was coming the other way, and ignored his stop sign, turning left in front of me. I mouthed some choice epithets...

He pulled a u turn and came after me...

At the next stop sign we both came to, he got out of his car, and started coming towards me from behind... He was a short feller, probably drove his big ol' car to compensate for his lack of stature in one way or another. As he was coming up, I got out of my little car... I'm 6'2" about 225 lb. (And was NOT carrying at the time) I asked him if he needed something... His eyes got a little too big, and he turned around and went back to his car, mumbling to his own self...

...and as he walked back to his car, he mumbled to himself "I can't believe what I just saw. The little car stopped, and a bigger car got out of it!!" :smile:

September 7th, 2011, 10:00 PM

zonker1986

say nothing....go into your best "Clint Eastwood Go ahead and make my day stare".....and stand your ground. Trust me, they will get the idea of what is coming next. Gotta keep your cool when you carry a tool that will end all derogatory remarks coming from these thugs for all time. You are in control of the situation, not them....so gotta act like it, whether you want to or not. BTW, saying nothing really bugs them. Try it.

I certainly hope you never have to use your weapon in self defense. This very thread might be used in court to paint you as a hothead vigilante just waiting to bust a cap in somebodys arse. Just saying.....

Thats all right I will still be around to share my .02

September 7th, 2011, 10:52 PM

RETSUPT99

Think back of all the times when someone angered you by their poor driving and/or words shouted at you...think hard!:blink:

Usually we forget those instances days later...because they mean nothing.

Don't yell back, don't get involved with loud mouths...no exchanges. Keep your cool, bite your tongue, because in a very short time it won't make any difference.

It's better not to risk exchanging remarks. Now if chased down and/or cornered, then it becomes a different scenario.

September 7th, 2011, 11:07 PM

Bark'n

Quote:

Originally Posted by limatunes

I don't see the point of responding to derogatory remarks... that is, after all, what the "bad guys" want. They want a reaction. That's why they are saying what they say. They want it to tick you off and they want you to respond and "disrespect" them so they have an excuse to escalate the situation.

Why give them the satisfaction? Even if it turns out that you win the fight you still stooped to their level by giving them the fight they were looking for.

Such a good point that it bears repeating.

Group thugs issue verbal assaults for one reason only. To get a response from you so they have an excuse to escalate things further. Don't take the bait.

There are a few of those who will also escalate things even if you do not respond, but then you are on much safer ground that your response will be seen as a genuine self defense.

Once you participate in the name calling, hand gestures and whatever else, you start to assume a level of culpability in escalating things to a higher level and more than likely your ability to claim self defense goes away.

This is Self Defense 101 folks. Don't get suckered in and take the bait. You'll likely get caught on a hook. It's called "baiting someone" for a reason.

September 8th, 2011, 01:58 AM

DAtrigger

How about this? Quote the second line of your signature:
Psalm 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God;

Looks like it's important enough for you that you put it in your signature.
So why not use it?
There are also many other verses you can quote to calm yourself.

I understand this is not Bible study time but here is another pretty compelling reason why not to yell back:

from Proverbs 9

7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults;
whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you;
rebuke the wise and they will love you.
9 Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still;
teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11 For through wisdom your days will be many,
and years will be added to your life.
12 If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;
if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.

September 8th, 2011, 11:39 AM

ConcealedG30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAtrigger

How about this? Quote the second line of your signature:
Psalm 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God;

Looks like it's important enough for you that you put it in your signature.
So why not use it?
There are also many other verses you can quote to calm yourself.

I understand this is not Bible study time but here is another pretty compelling reason why not to yell back:

from Proverbs 9

7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults;
whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you;
rebuke the wise and they will love you.
9 Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still;
teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11 For through wisdom your days will be many,
and years will be added to your life.
12 If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;
if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.

I will never claim to be perfect, I am a work in progress. I like the information you have included. As I have said before this is a Scenairio Thread. The few times I have posted them I catch alot of crap. I am just looking for others thoughts. As I have said before I rarely shout insults back I believe if those are the biggest words you can use its best to keep your mouth shut.

September 8th, 2011, 08:54 PM

oakchas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConcealedG30

I will never claim to be perfect, I am a work in progress. I like the information you have included. As I have said before this is a Scenairio Thread. The few times I have posted them I catch alot of crap. I am just looking for others thoughts. As I have said before I rarely shout insults back I believe if those are the biggest words you can use its best to keep your mouth shut.

A willingness to learn is a rare commodity. We all learn here. Some will admit it, some will not. I have found this site to be very informative. Sure, we all catch a bit of crap from time to time... and some of us dish it as well...

It can be hard not to act on the fact that you may have some equalizing power on your hip or in your pocket. The gun does not make us above the law, does not make us better than they other guy, does not give us the power to stop all the evil in the world.

It does give us a fighting chance against the evil in our world, should it seek us out. But we generally avoid as much of it as we can and still enjoy our lives. Much like cheating the reaper, we try to cheat the evil in the world.

But when it does comes to call, we are better prepared for it than the average person, and able to give it pause when attending to us.

Carry on!

September 9th, 2011, 11:17 AM

ep1953

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopyard

Even someone running at you might not be justification. What if they stop short and just stand there yelling their fool heads off?

I've been on the receiving end of that. It is a tough decision whether or not to retreat, stand there, strike the first blow, side step, whatever.

Every situation is so different, and peoples personalities and quirks are so different, it is really hard to come up with fool proof guidelines.

I have made up my mind that if at all possible I will absorb any and all verbal crap (it cost nothing), and either accept the first blow or use my H2H skills to stop it. Gun will be the last resort saved for when a weapon is presented or their is too much force disparity-- which at my age is almost always. I'm tempted to make the obvious wise crack--'don't start a fight with an old man, he'll just kill you," but doing that is the last thing I would want. So, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. Keep my posture as un - threatening as possible, and deal with what unfolds split second by split second.

In the one and only serious incident I've ever had, not too long ago actually, the crazy guy suddenly got religion
when he realized I wasn't going to retreat and he thought I was going for a weapon-which I wasn't. I just put my hand in my pocket to get my cell phone. He obviously thought something else was in that pocket as his eyes turned big as saucers and he ran off.

How do you know they are going to stop short? Beyond that, if they do stop short how do you know when they are going to decide they are finished yelling and start with the physical attack?

September 9th, 2011, 01:54 PM

smolck

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConcealedG30

How would you handle six unarmed hostile attackers in a similar situation?

I don't ever feel the need to defend myself from verbal assaults. You can cuss me all day and I won't likely say much (especially when carrying). So the scenario here for me would be me minding my own business and 6 guys coming at me. All I can say is my pistol holds 12 rounds, should be enough to even things up. 6 on 1 =severe disparity of force.