"But in a written statement, the company said its German employees at fulfillment centers primarily load and unload trucks and stock shelves. The company says those tasks are vastly different from the jobs done within a retail store."

I see their point. But the workers should have union representation. All workers should. And not just in Germany.

ginandbacon:"But in a written statement, the company said its German employees at fulfillment centers primarily load and unload trucks and stock shelves. The company says those tasks are vastly different from the jobs done within a retail store."

I see their point. But the workers should have union representation. All workers should. And not just in Germany.

I'm kinda weirded out that Amazon was avoiding having unionized workers in Germany already. I thought all companies operating in German were required to have labor representatives on their board.

SphericalTime:ginandbacon: "But in a written statement, the company said its German employees at fulfillment centers primarily load and unload trucks and stock shelves. The company says those tasks are vastly different from the jobs done within a retail store."

I see their point. But the workers should have union representation. All workers should. And not just in Germany.

I'm kinda weirded out that Amazon was avoiding having unionized workers in Germany already. I thought all companies operating in German were required to have labor representatives on their board.

I thought so too before this article. It looks like even in Sweden it's only 70% while in France it's 10% so not nearly as prevalent as I recalled.

According to Verdi, the service workers union, Amazon fulfillment center wages start at 1,631 euros per month [about $2,150] and go up to 2,348 euros [$3,100]. The union said the change would provide 7,000 more euros [$9,200] for the average worker each year.

What kind of asshole switches units of measurement between consecutive sentences?

lohphat:Amazon is just as bad as WalMart when it comes to poor wages and sweatshop management style.

They're different kinds of awful. Wal-Mart is more oriented towards doing it for the lulz, being shiatty for shiattiness' sake. "Hi, sorry to wake you at 12:00 A.M., but we've scheduled you for the 2 A.M.-4 A.M. cleaning shift, so you'll need to leave now if you want to catch the three buses you'll need to make it on time. Also, we've got you schedule to work 8 A.M.-noon today too, and while you won't officially be required to work off the clock between 4 and 8, it's worth saying that you'll be physically locked in the building until the store opens at 7:30."

Whereas Amazon, I think, genuinely wishes you well--they're just aware that 99.8% of human beings will have one or more major joints ground into pulpy, cartilaginous oblivion by the physical demands of the Amazon warehouse before six months are up. So when they fire you for not being able to make the steadily increasing quota, it's nothing personal. In fact, I think they probably feel they're doing you a favor. It was painful watching you try to lift those boxes without aggravating your hernia!

/yes, they're both doing it for the money above all else, but there are different flavors

In both sentences, the author is repeating a figure provided by a source. It would be wrong to print that the union said the change would provide 583 more euros per month if the union hadn't actually said that.

But there's no reason why the journalist could not have provided their own numerical analysis with the units normalized.

ginandbacon:"But in a written statement, the company said its German employees at fulfillment centers primarily load and unload trucks and stock shelves. The company says those tasks are vastly different from the jobs done within a retail store."

I see their point. But the workers should have union representation. All workers should. And not just in Germany.

Gosling:ginandbacon: "But in a written statement, the company said its German employees at fulfillment centers primarily load and unload trucks and stock shelves. The company says those tasks are vastly different from the jobs done within a retail store."

I see their point. But the workers should have union representation. All workers should. And not just in Germany.

I work in a retail store and that's basically my job description.

Do you deal with the public? Make sales? Work the cash register? Handle complaints? Take care of store appearance? Have to take care of your own appearance beyond just being clean and decent?

goatleggedfellow:According to Verdi, the service workers union, Amazon fulfillment center wages start at 1,631 euros per month [about $2,150] and go up to 2,348 euros [$3,100]. The union said the change would provide 7,000 more euros [$9,200] for the average worker each year.

What kind of asshole switches units of measurement between consecutive sentences?

Because 500 Euro/month isn't THAT impressive.

You want to lowball the wages they offer now because clearly they're cheap bastards.You want to highball the advantage from the union.

So you use the low monthly figure for the monthly pay and the high annual payout for the annual pay.

/Mind you, my experience with Western Europe is that the average European pays about the same price in Euros for everything as we do in dollars. (So I'm biatching about $7 beers her in the Valley, but Ireland's paying 7 EURO for a beer. It's good beer, there's a reason why I paid $6/bottle to import some as a special treat, but Jeez.) It's like an entire continent had the same price structure as NYC. Or in the case of Paris, an even more terrible real estate market. WTF, guys. An 800 sq. ft. condo in the outskirts of town should not cost $2 Million. So that whole unionization thing might not be working out so hot for the average person.

semiotix:lohphat: Amazon is just as bad as WalMart when it comes to poor wages and sweatshop management style.

They're different kinds of awful. Wal-Mart is more oriented towards doing it for the lulz, being shiatty for shiattiness' sake. "Hi, sorry to wake you at 12:00 A.M., but we've scheduled you for the 2 A.M.-4 A.M. cleaning shift, so you'll need to leave now if you want to catch the three buses you'll need to make it on time. Also, we've got you schedule to work 8 A.M.-noon today too, and while you won't officially be required to work off the clock between 4 and 8, it's worth saying that you'll be physically locked in the building until the store opens at 7:30."

Whereas Amazon, I think, genuinely wishes you well--they're just aware that 99.8% of human beings will have one or more major joints ground into pulpy, cartilaginous oblivion by the physical demands of the Amazon warehouse before six months are up. So when they fire you for not being able to make the steadily increasing quota, it's nothing personal. In fact, I think they probably feel they're doing you a favor. It was painful watching you try to lift those boxes without aggravating your hernia!

/yes, they're both doing it for the money above all else, but there are different flavors

As an Amazon employee, I can confirm that Amazon is a soulless corporation who end up driving you into insanity, madness, a 10 cup a day coffee addiction, tremendous weight gain, and eventual death with their insane workload demands/cheap to the point of stupid.

I can also confirm that's it not intentional at all. It's just business.

goatleggedfellow:According to Verdi, the service workers union, Amazon fulfillment center wages start at 1,631 euros per month [about $2,150] and go up to 2,348 euros [$3,100]. The union said the change would provide 7,000 more euros [$9,200] for the average worker each year.

What kind of You know what other asshole switchesd units of measurement between consecutive sentences?

meyerkev:As an Amazon employee, I can confirm that Amazon is a soulless corporation who end up driving you into insanity, madness, a 10 cup a day coffee addiction, tremendous weight gain, and eventual death with their insane workload demands/cheap to the point of stupid.

I can also confirm that's it not intentional at all. It's just business.

Sounds like you've somehow found your way into ops, and that's a special place where only a strange, strange bird can thrive.

Have you made it out to an FC yet? I did a week in one last month. In terms of warehouse work the conditions are better than I've seen at other companies, though at the end of the day it's still warehouse work.

soze:meyerkev:As an Amazon employee, I can confirm that Amazon is a soulless corporation who end up driving you into insanity, madness, a 10 cup a day coffee addiction, tremendous weight gain, and eventual death with their insane workload demands/cheap to the point of stupid.

I can also confirm that's it not intentional at all. It's just business.

Sounds like you've somehow found your way into ops, and that's a special place where only a strange, strange bird can thrive.

Have you made it out to an FC yet? I did a week in one last month. In terms of warehouse work the conditions are better than I've seen at other companies, though at the end of the day it's still warehouse work.

/Amazon employee

Amazon can't be that horrible. After all, you're both Farking on company time... ;)

Sir Cumference the Flatulent:I want to see how this plays out. A few years ago, Walmart pulled out of Germany because they had problems dealing with that whole pesky "treating their employees like human beings" thing.

That wasn't the only thing Walmart did. Walmart wanted a carbon copy of how stores are ran in the US and that got them in hot water with the European Union for various violations. They also did not do their research on the German culture to better integrate Walmart's values that of the German work place to work together. They hired a non German speaking CEO who worked from the US (as many of their overseas CEOs). He may have been was inflexible in making changes or Walmart's main branch would not let him make changes to make the German expansion work. Walmart did not anticipate is how small of a country Germany is compared to the US and only a limited stores could open there. The market was already saturated by other Walmart like stores that were already established.

This was the same reason they failed other countries like South Korea over the same thing. They have succeeded in countries where labor restrictions are the lowest like China, Latin Americas, and US.

Stone Meadow:soze: meyerkev:As an Amazon employee, I can confirm that Amazon is a soulless corporation who end up driving you into insanity, madness, a 10 cup a day coffee addiction, tremendous weight gain, and eventual death with their insane workload demands/cheap to the point of stupid.

I can also confirm that's it not intentional at all. It's just business.

Sounds like you've somehow found your way into ops, and that's a special place where only a strange, strange bird can thrive.

Have you made it out to an FC yet? I did a week in one last month. In terms of warehouse work the conditions are better than I've seen at other companies, though at the end of the day it's still warehouse work.

/Amazon employee

Amazon can't be that horrible. After all, you're both Farking on company time... ;)

Today's the first day that I've been off since August 17th, which is one of 6 days I'd been off since um... mid-June. And I only get this because it only took me about 2 months to become Wally (Except that I do actually do work. But just that general "I would like to have a life at some point, so I'm out when I'm out and up yours" way of thinking. I've got a coworker who works until 3 AM every night and he's just crazy). They paid for me to go to Dublin for training for 3 weeks, but I had to take time off to go see my sister in Paris* over the weekend. (Also, note to self: If you buy plane tickets on 3 days warning over 4th of July weekend, it will cost you $800 to fly to Paris and back.).

General definition of horribleness usually has to do with weight gain for me. If I hate what I'm doing or I'm using food to stay awake, I eat a lot. And if I enjoy what I'm doing, I drop weight super-fast.

So I gained 40 pounds freshman year of college because all-nighters.Lost all 40 in 4 months at the golf course because I enjoyed that a TON. (Also, physical labor)Gained SIXTY sophomore year because 3 all-nighters a week and 2 jobs.Gained an extra 20 over the next 2 years of college and internships.Lost EIGHTY-FIVE in a year and a half working at the Silicon Valley startup.Have since gained 15 in 1.5 months working at Amazon now that I'm not walking around Dublin every afternoon. And I've gone on record to my boss as saying that if I gain another 10, I want a transfer out of ops because it's doing too much damage to my system.

* And it amuses me to no end that I'm in CA, she's in MI, so of course we met up in Paris.

Basic idea with GUI is that we cut you a check. Rich, poor, young, stupid, drug addict, CEO, low-COL Midwesterner, high-COL Manhattanite. Everyone gets a check. Everybody gets the same check. SS for everybody instead of a bunch of programs that have various qualifications and requirements. No welfare cliff, just "here's the check". To everybody.

So instead of spending $2 Trillion on the welfare system, we spend $2 Trillion cutting everybody a check and a few million mailing them out. (Or heck, these days, direct deposit is a thing).

I've mainly got 1 issue with it at present.

There's not enough money. I only take home 43% of my income. (44% withholding, 13% health insurance and other various withholding items. 4% 401K, so if you want, make that 47%). Raising my taxes is getting to the point where it's counterproductive as fark because a) you get an extra 10% and I lose a quarter of my income and b) I start looking for loopholes and boltholes. Part of the reason why I make SO MUCH farkING MONEY is because rent on a 1 BR is $3.5K/month and at that point, with the taxes, I'm spending about triple my parent's combined income on a shiatty 1 BR. (Or honestly, I can't afford to do that, so I have a roommate. Who smokes.)

US federal government gets 18%.

The Republicans tell me Reagan cut taxes, the NYT tells me he raised them, and that graph tells me he did absolutely nothing. Even Clinton's little 2-3% raise got cancelled out by child tax credits and EITC (Which I like. The difference between poor and lower-middle class is having $4K in the bank for shocks instead of getting screwed trying to loan money on short notice. So "Here's a one-off check for $3K. Please use it to pay off debts" is really good way to bump people into the lower-middle class).

So US per-capita GDP is about $50K/year. Little more, but this'll make for easy math since you can divide percentages by 2 and slap a thousand on the end.

18% means $9K/person.

Military is going to average 5%.

Clinton got us down to 3.4%, but that was only because Reagan beat the Soviets on 8%. And then well, post-9/11, we were going into at least one war. Or there would've been a new Congress in '02 and a new President in '04 and THEN we would've been going into a war. And you know, China AND Russia are getting frisky at the same time. Ooh, and dealing with Iran is necessary to prevent Israel from preemptively nuking them. Not sure we're getting 3/4ths of a TRILLION dollars worth of value out of it, but no army has crossed the Rhine since 1945, this is not worthless.

And we're not going isolationist, because the last time we went isolationist, the left side of that chart happened.

So you have 13% left. After that, it's deficit spending time, and deficit spending is bad (unless you gotta, but it shouldn't be the only resort).

So $6500/person in the USA. Now for a family of 4, that's $26K/year post-tax, which is actually a little bit better than Dad was doing when I was growing up. NOT NYC money, but I'm not paying for NYC, I'm paying for you not starving in a trailer in rural Kentucky and anything after that is your problem. Because this is by definition 1st percentile. Sucks to be poor and single, but that's always been the case. And maybe we cut the per-kid check and get an extra grand or 2 in the per-adult check.

Right now, we spend that $6500/person on SS* and Medic*. Which basically means old people with a couple hundred billion left over for poor people as a side effect of old people. The infrastructure spending is tiny and entirely deficit spending.

Remove Medic* money and you're down to about $3500/person. So $14K/year for a family of 4.

Mind you, this is by definition first percentile. But if you replaced ~$14K/year/old person SS + matching Medicaid with $6K/person + Go die in a ditch, that's a hard sell.

ski9600:Stone Meadow: meyerkev: Mind you, this is by definition first percentile. But if you replaced ~$14K/year/old person SS + matching Medicaid with $6K/person + Go die in a ditch, that's a hard sell.

That's not a *hard* sell...that's *impossible*, but I'm glad you recognize the difficulty, because you usually ignore reality when it comes to taxes.

You want a GUI for all adults? There are 300+ million legal residents in the US. To give each person $6500 will add a cool $2 trillion to a federal budget that has not yet hit $4 trillion.

[www.aaas.org image 579x433]

Where do you find the money?

Could you add borrowing to that pie chart?

US GDP in 2012 was 15.68 Trillion. 18% of that is 2.8 Trillion.

According to the chart though, there's only $.568 Trillion in borrowing this year because we're at the height of the business cycle, so we're getting $3.3 Trillion instead of $2.8 Trillion. So better hope there's not a recession.

Sir Cumference the Flatulent:I want to see how this plays out. A few years ago, Walmart pulled out of Germany because they had problems dealing with that whole pesky "treating their employees like human beings" thing.

ginandbacon:"But in a written statement, the company said its German employees at fulfillment centers primarily load and unload trucks and stock shelves. The company says those tasks are vastly different from the jobs done within a retail store."

I see their point. But the workers should have union representation. All workers should. And not just in Germany.

They are already receiving better vacation time required for their classification, so expect to be reclassified to get even better pay and benefits? Forget them, fight them to the bitter end and then close shop. They are complaining because as the business grew, they are expected to work harder. Well of course, because while the company was just starting, there wasn't much demand so less work. Be glad they staffed the place well at the beginning to keep the work load light. There is no way the company can get more out of you than you are capable of doing, so then they will have to hire more help. It's that simple, they'll have to hire more labor, but don't whine about not having a higher classification just because the business picked up. $25K starting to up to $37K, not bad pay for American retail employees. Nancy should never move back here.

/I'm a union worker. My union rep told me to slow down so to screw my company. He didn't like my reply.//I accepted the terms when I hired, and I accept the work I agreed to do.

12349876:Stone Meadow: You want a GUI for all adults? There are 300+ million legal residents in the US.

23.3% of your 300+ million legal residents are under 18.

After posting my comments I wondered if anyone would pick up on that discontinuity. To explain...I started writing about adults only, then switched to everyone to keep my comments in line with meyerkev's. I correctly switched from talking about $26k per family to $6500 per person, but forgot to change 'adults' to 'residents'. Sorry about that.