PART ONE I posted a picture of a quote that said, "It annoys me that the burden of proof is on us. It should be, 'You came up with the idea, why do you believe it?' I could tell you I've got superpowers, but I can't go up to people saying, 'Prove I can't fly.' They'd go, 'What do you mean prove you can't fly? Prove you can!'"

That thread became 75 comments in length. My friend is a conservative, Republican, Texan and Christian. (Apparently adultery is "okay" in his view of the Bible. But I'm not here to talk about THAT point...) Anyway, Christian friend will be identified as in this conversation. I will also have to chop this into Parts to fit the whole conversation/debate because I thought about it and realized it's not polite to take things out of context. Either way, I'm posting it for anyone who is bored and/or curious to read it all.

Also, Revenant and Fstrat pounced on the status and I kinda sat back after I said what I needed. (And I tend to sit back on the sidelines, to be honest.)

Intelligent design is the proof of a designer. No one looks at a brick house and thinks evolved from a rock. The human body is a billion time more complex, he thinks it came from a single cell that materialized itself from nothing, and without thought a blueprint, or a plan turned into a human. Evolution is more illogical than thinking a house could build itself.

Peanut It is also illogical to assume that one all knowing, all powerful being made a whole world and all its living organisms in a week. And if it is so "illogical" to say that life formed from nothing, then where did this God come from? Who made HIM?

See that's where Christians win. That argument collapses on itself. An all knowing, all powerful being who, if he does exist, is first of all on a much higher plane of being and there doesn't have to conform to the logic of man. Humans are slaves to time, so it seems that a being that claims to have always been is illogical, but if it seems illogical then you have to admit it's a concept unnatural to man. And any concept unnatural to man is beyond his realm of invention. Inventing God is much like me asking you to invent a new color without using any of the 3 primary colors. You simply can't. Humans cannot create. Everything made by humans is a copy of something we've already seen. How has God always been? How could He not have a creator? I admit those questions beg a depart from the natural thinking of humans but not from logic.

Peanut Questioning how the omniscient, invisible man came into existence does not constitute a win for any religion. If people today, with all the knowledge we've learned up to this point, tried to say that things came to be or the "miracles" happened as alleged in the Bible, society would think they were crazy. The good book was written at a time when people had no idea about how the world worked or what things were and presumably by people in power and position to control.

Fstrat Maybe human beings are not brick houses?

Revenant Ahh our good old friend God of the Gaps. The Incredible shrinking God every day just a little smaller and a little further away. Evolution is believed almost entirely by those who understand it and reject by those who do not. Oh and I beg you please tell me how science is wrong, on a computer, over the internet.

Well first all this is a phone in my hand. So it's quite obvious the first flaw of any evolutionist is carelessly arrogant presumptions.

Peanut Raymond, what?! We make movies and write stories and teenagers make up rumors everyday! It is safe to assume that minimally educated (or completely uneducated) people could say, "Hey, guys. I found this book that explains EVERYTHING." to the REALLY poor and scared, uneducated masses.

We make moive? That's not creation. There has never been

A single original thought among humans.

Revenant Well that tells me exactly how much you know of this subject. Go read a few books and get back to me I recommend Dawkins for a primer Greatest Show on Earth it is written for laymen and gives a good overview.

Again, arrogance is not intellect.

Revenant No but education is. That is what I suggested.

Peanut Ahhh! We make our own decisions. We have the power to choose "right or wrong." Nobody controls our actions. You and I will never agree on this, though. (And why would God let me argue for atheism? Rhetorical question.)

Yes well I'm sure the people who taught at my college were well educated. Physics isn't really something they let you guess at, nor is philosophy. I'm suggested you pull tour foot out your mouth and close it before it unleashes the full extent of your ignorance.

Revenant So then presumably you have taken a few biology courses.

Not for mechanical engineering, no. Still guessing?

Revenant How do you explain the perfect correlation between Genetic code DNA strata and Predictions of Evolution. Full fossil records of thousands of transitional species. The Age of the Earth/solar system/universe with one of creationism?

You think biology proves how something comes from nothing? Oh but wait there was an explosion first first?

Revenant No that would be Abiogenesis but thanks for playing.

Those are better questions. Carbon 14 dating is based on an assumption. It's not a secret it's just how the process was created. Name one transitional species. And I do not mean labradoodle.

DNA does what? Who cracked that code?

Peanut *Eats popcorn*

"It was life,often unsatisfying, frequently cruel, usually boring, sometimes beautiful, once in awhile exhilarating." -Stephen King

People that deluded are too far from saving. As Seth always mentions in his podcast, you won't convert these brain dead people, but you might have helped progress the de-conversion of the silent onlookers who read the conversation on Facebook. Don't let this guy stop you from posting future atheist material on your Facebook, no doubt that guy posts lots of Christian bullshit.

Wow. This reminds me of my brief time at a Christian message board. I was actually treated to two posters who insisted that the geocentric model was correct that that gravity doesn't exist.

Wow.

(11-11-2013 02:40 PM)TheLogicalAthiest Wrote: People that deluded are too far from saving. As Seth always mentions in his podcast, you won't convert these brain dead people, but you might have helped progress the de-conversion of the silent onlookers who read the conversation on Facebook. Don't let this guy stop you from posting future atheist material on your Facebook, no doubt that guy posts lots of Christian bullshit.

See that's it right there. That is the out of the transitional argument. We're always in transition so are fossils are transitional. The truth is that in between dinosaurs and lizards is a crocodile, and it could just as easily been the way things were made as the way things evolved. The transitional argument is hollow.

Revenant Explain DNA

I answered your question answer one of mine.

I'm not a biologist, but I'm reasonable enough to question something from nothing. Did you want a definition? Or just my understanding of it?

Revenant Whichever you would rather go with take your time

Peanut I apologize to Richard. I tagged the wrong person. You guys are swarming, coming outta nowhere.

I'll forego the technical definition since, as I've stated, it's not my thing, but it's quite a bit more complex than a super computer, is it not? Do you think in 100 billions years a super computer could ever writes it's own programing? Well it's not a living object. So humans came from rocks or living objects? I know it seems a simple question but give it some time.

Project Steve is a list of scientists with the given nameSteven or a variation t...See More.

Peanut I do tend to refrain from posting on the Facebook, but I see pro religion updates constantly. People should be able to handle it if they gotta see "this heathen material." You're all grown ups. I have an intellectually stimulating thread to read.

Revenant Well then since I have your permission we shall continue.

** SO MUCH EDITING! MY BRAIN HURTS. SO TIRED. PART THREE LATER. LET THIS SIMMER FOR NOW.**

"It was life,often unsatisfying, frequently cruel, usually boring, sometimes beautiful, once in awhile exhilarating." -Stephen King

(11-11-2013 06:28 PM)natachan Wrote: This guy is an engineer? Did I miss something or isn't it a REQUIREMENT to take and pass basic chemistry? If so how can he argue against radiometric dating?

Oh wait, you said this was a Texan. He must have taken the Texas-approved version.

Everything he said was an appeal to ignorance. He came off as a bully to me. That's why I stepped in and started laying the facts down on him. Notice the snide comments he has. Well that and I may have been drinking...

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote: America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

But I'm lost. He HAS to know better. His logic is horribly circular. Can't he see that? Plus his educational background says he had to have been exposed to the facts about nuclear forces at some point. I understand that mechanical engineers are sort of the red-headed stepchildren of engineers but really?

(11-11-2013 06:34 PM)natachan Wrote: But I'm lost. He HAS to know better. His logic is horribly circular. Can't he see that? Plus his educational background says he had to have been exposed to the facts about nuclear forces at some point. I understand that mechanical engineers are sort of the red-headed stepchildren of engineers but really?

I asked him if he had taken Biology and he claimed not to have. I don't think he was expecting to get challenged on his bs, because as you can see he had nothing to back up his assertions.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote: America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense