.Do you know who it is that those who are told to sanctify by being ready always to give an answer to every man that ask for the substance of the thing hoped for in them, the evidence of the things unseen.

If the identity of this 'who' is to be found in the Bible, then that's another invalid circular argument, Justus.

Nope Justus is not 'who', but do you really think you would be able to find 'who' it is if it is in the Bible without hearing 'who' it is since a person doesn't know they don't even know something until they first learn of that which they didn't know. So how did you come to the knowledge that if you made a claim there was a onus upon you to substantiate your claim with evidence?

When I was deeply committed to evangelical Christianity I certainly had no idea that if I made a claim, the onus was upon me to substantiate that claim with evidence.

If you claim that you had no idea that if you made a claim that the onus is upon you to substantiate that claim with evidence, then if the onus is upon you to substantiate a claim you make then where did you get the idea from that the onus was upon you?

If you claim that you had no idea that if you made a claim that the onus is upon you to substantiate that claim with evidence, then if the onus is upon you to substantiate a claim you make then where did you get the idea from that the onus was upon you?

This one time I had a really big onus on me but my brother saw it and whacked it with a two by four. Knocked out three of my teeth, it did. They was all rotted anyway. That's when we lived in the cabin.

I guess that I was hoping that they were saying that if they had been a Christian that their response would have been ....yada yada yada, so I wasn't the only one here it seems who never claimed to be a Christian or subscribed to Christianity theology, my inquiry to his comment was obviously in error.

Never claimed to be a Christian? So is Jesus your Lord and Savior? Or is Jesus not your Lord and Savior?

Oh my bad, since you know the person who wrote the comment then you would obviously know if he was or not without having to rely upon the syntax.

I guess that I was hoping that they were saying that if they had been a Christian that their response would have been ....yada yada yada, so I wasn't the only one here it seems who never claimed to be a Christian or subscribed to Christianity theology, my inquiry to his comment was obviously in error.

You're thinking of the TruthSeeker0 who posts over there on weneverclaimedtobechristian.net. Wrong website, bro.

If you claim Truthseeker is a she then I believe you when you say you know she is, that is why I used the 'he' in the syntax of gender neutral because 'man' can be either a male or female.

Yet ironically you never had a clue that child born unto a virgin would be a female or do you not believe that parthenogenesis is possible in humans and that a child born from a zygote formed without cell fusion between the gametes of a male and female are only known to produce an xx offspring in humans?

If you claim Truthseeker is a she then I believe you when you say you know she is, that is why I used the 'he' in the syntax of gender neutral because 'man' can be either a male or female.

Well thank you for believing me. Man can indeed refer to humanity as a whole, (I point to possibly the most famous line where "man" has been used like this: That's one small step for (a) man, one giant leap for mankind". However he & him and she & her are not gender neutral according to my understanding of English (Limited as it is). They and them is.

Ok that was tongue in cheek fun.

3 hours ago, Justus said:

Yet ironically you never had a clue that child born unto a virgin would be a female or do you not believe that parthenogenesis is possible in humans and that a child born from a zygote formed without cell fusion between the gametes of a male and female are only known to produce an xx offspring in humans?

You are losing me here. (I note you also lost Walter... either its both of us... or its the way you put things). What is the point here?

I know of no known confirmed case of parthenogenesis in humans. (You'll forgive me for ignoring the story that arose from mistranslated passages that people tried to make out to be fulfillment of prophesy) Hang on I'll check google. Yeah, no confirmed cases of parthenogenesis. There are known parthenogeneic abnormalities in humans - cases of a cell growing hair and skin cells, but these turn into a tumor. There are cases of both male and female that are parthenogenetic chimeras, but this is not true parthenogenesis.

However, according to my studies you are correct that if there was a true case of parthenogenesis the offspring would be female.

Which brings us to the question... where did God get the Y chromosome for Jesus?

Could you tell us what Justus' beliefs are? Just write us a message please. Or heck just write us a message about anything you like. Right here in this thread. Maybe the letters could fly off my screen and glow in midair for a while. Then I'd know it was you.

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No one, including you has had a god moment, because there is no such thing as god. Most of us here had what we thought were god moments, but later realised it was just wishful thinking/hallucination/crowd hype/co incidence etc. So it's nothing to be sad about, we have not walked away from god, as there is no god. We walked away from the beliefs that were taught to us from a young age. We simply realised god doesn't exist. Prayers aren't answered and there is no one out there intervening in any way. That's why there is so much bad stuff in the world.. But there is also good stuff. We as humans can do the best we can to add to the good stuff as much as possible, and deal with the bad stuff as best we can.

I hope I'm not barging in, or being too disrespectful here for you all, but I have a question. Really I guess it's a concern more then a question, but it is a question nonetheless.

Before any of you guys left Christianity, did you have any experiences of faith? Or did you know of someone else's experiences?

I guess the question comes down to if you ever had a "God moment," where in some big or small way you found Him. That's the question and the concern all wrapped up in one.

Again I'm sorry if this sounds disrespectful or "holier then though" kind of vibe. That's not my intent. Finding God's love in the mist of a depression as a kid was part of my realizing that there's no question that God exists or not, but only a question of who God is, and what to do from there. So this is expecially sad for me to hear people say that they never knew God exists. More so if it comes from those who used to be Christian.

Have any of you guys ever had a "God moment?" Or have you had more then one? If so what made you want to leave?. If you haven't, would you be open to hearing experiences?

How do you know a God exists universally? That's the question I asked myself, and I arrived at a interesting conclusion. I had to accept that to answer that question, it can not be dependent on what other people believe, what I believe or what my inner emotional experiences are telling me about reality. Because all those methods of determining the facts in this case are completely internalized, and knowing God under those conditions would leave me with a closed concept of the creator.

From there I had to use my limited senses, and study the natural world and the universe to glean any possible answer. My conclusions are that the motivator of the universe designed it intentionally to run itself, and it does not require assistance. It is not broken, and it has not fallen into a corrupted state. The most dominant features of the universe seem to be either to create or destroy, life and death as they say.

My conclusions are that the motivator of the universe designed it intentionally to run itself, and it does not require assistance. It is not broken, and it has not fallen into a corrupted state. The most dominant features of the universe seem to be either to create or destroy, life and death as they say.

This is very similar to the conclusion I came to. But then a friend suggested that is based on the concepts we are aware of, that things have to be designed, or created. Where did the motivator/creator come from? If he/she/It has always existed, is it possible the universe has always existed?

This is very similar to the conclusion I came to. But then a friend suggested that is based on the concepts we are aware of, that things have to be designed, or created. Where did the motivator/creator come from? If he/she/It has always existed, is it possible the universe has always existed?

I had this thought about two days ago, that maybe the reason humans are self aware (Unlike other animal's) is due to some cataclysmic event that disrupted the evolutionary process on this planet along time ago. So the earth afforded our species the luxury of self awareness specifically to correct the malfunction.

I had this thought about two days ago, that maybe the reason humans are self aware (Unlike other animal's) is due to some cataclysmic event that disrupted the evolutionary process on this planet along time ago. So the earth afforded our species the luxury of self awareness specifically to correct the malfunction.

Not to make it worse.

Maybe my brain is groggy right now, but after reading your reply several times, I don't understand you.

I had this thought about two days ago, that maybe the reason humans are self aware (Unlike other animal's) is due to some cataclysmic event that disrupted the evolutionary process on this planet along time ago. So the earth afforded our species the luxury of self awareness specifically to correct the malfunction.

Not to make it worse.

This would mean the Earth had a cataclysmic event with a purpose - to correct the malfunction. At least this is what you imply with your wording.