I can see them trying to upgrade at safety through FA...there are a lot of names out there this year.

While Whitner, Ward or Byrd may be too expensive given the Patriots cap space and needs at other positions, a guy like Clemons could be possible (and would be an upgrade over Gregory).

In fact, a number of those guys listed would be an upgrade at starting SS over Gregory, so I'm not going to be very picky lol.

The problem with Gregory is he's not a good SS, so when he's asked to play that role, which is most of the time here, he is average.

He played SS in SD which was not his natural position, so I think the idea was, experience there, means experience as a hybrid S would mesh well here. He's average to me, but we need two above average Safeties for it to work.

He's really more of a FS by nature and at best a swing Safety, IMO.

Kind of agree. I don't hate Gregory, but I don't love him as a starter. I'd like for him to be on this team if he is a backup, with McCourty and (insert player better than Gregory) as starters.

A physical presence for the back end of the defense remains a hole/need... with that said, I really would love to see them take Pryor if available in Rd 1... or pony up and sign TJ Ward... he's one of the best run defending S's in the NFL and is solid in coverage as well.

I'd want Whitner. He won't be a top paid S out there but should be a mid term cost and be more of a in the box hard hitting type S. I know it's a crazy notion to want to pay mid tier prices for a S in his prime but call me crazy and not wanting another aging retread who was clearly on the downside for anyone with half an eye and not dazzled by the, oh he's the next Rodney look at all those former pro-bowls, mentally that people went gaga over. Harmon looks ok to handle the SS position on coverage downs but Whitner would be a big boast in short downs covering TE's and as a harder hitting S on early downs.

I'd want Whitner. He won't be a top paid S out there but should be a mid term cost and be more of a in the box hard hitting type S. I know it's a crazy notion to want to pay mid tier prices for a S in his prime but call me crazy and not wanting another aging retread who was clearly on the downside for anyone with half an eye and not dazzled by the, oh he's the next Rodney look at all those former pro-bowls, mentally that people went gaga over. Harmon looks ok to handle the SS position on coverage downs but Whitner would be a big boast in short downs covering TE's and as a harder hitting S on early downs.

Yeah what an idiot BB is for spending a whopping .009% of the cap on a 33 year old 6 foot 3 physical specimen who if he hadn't torn his achilles would have been the 2 down in the box physical presence that this team missed last year.

Thank God he didn't listen to couch GM's like Pats Eng and paid out the assss for 42 million dollar FREE SAFETY Goldson and got 70 tackle 0 sack 1 interception production last year from a second Free Safety that Gregory matched in production with his 79 tackle 1 sack 0 int.

I like Whitner as well as long as his contract is reasonable. He is a thumper, a hard hitting safety who gives up plays n coverage(you know like Adrian Wilson but he will cost 6x as much) but we will have one of the best safeties in the league, a newly extended Devin McCourty to cover for him so it could work.

I'd want Whitner. He won't be a top paid S out there but should be a mid term cost and be more of a in the box hard hitting type S. I know it's a crazy notion to want to pay mid tier prices for a S in his prime but call me crazy and not wanting another aging retread who was clearly on the downside for anyone with half an eye and not dazzled by the, oh he's the next Rodney look at all those former pro-bowls, mentally that people went gaga over. Harmon looks ok to handle the SS position on coverage downs but Whitner would be a big boast in short downs covering TE's and as a harder hitting S on early downs.

Yeah what an idiot BB is for spending a whopping .009% of the cap on a 33 year old 6 foot 3 physical specimen who if he hadn't torn his achilles would have been the 2 down in the box physical presence that this team missed last year.

Thank God he didn't listen to couch GM's like Pats Eng and paid out the assss for 42 million dollar FREE SAFETY Goldson and got 70 tackle 0 sack 1 interception production last year from a second Free Safety that Gregory matched in production with his 79 tackle 1 sack 0 int.

I like Whitner as well as long as his contract is reasonable. He is a thumper, a hard hitting safety who gives up plays n coverage(you know like Adrian Wilson but he will cost 6x as much) but we will have one of the best safeties in the league, a newly extended Devin McCourty to cover for him so it could work.

Well look at it this way truechamp, because we didn't sign Goldson when we had him sitting across from Belichick three years ago (or Whitner for that matter), we have had to go and spend money on Steven Gregory, Adrian Wilson...then draft Tavon Wilson and Harmon. Where's the return on your investment from that? A second round pick, a third round pick (or was it a fourth for Harmon?), a contract for Gregory, a contract for Adrain Wilson...yet none of them is the answer. Sounds swell.

And we're not done - we are going to waste more resources to find a safety - what will it be? The draft? Free agency? Trade? Either way we will continue to spend to get someone in here that can play, when we could of signed someone three years ago that could. This is what is broken in our team building approach, it is all about "value" now and "return on our investment", instead orf worrying about getting the better player. And you're just thrilled.

I'd want Whitner. He won't be a top paid S out there but should be a mid term cost and be more of a in the box hard hitting type S. I know it's a crazy notion to want to pay mid tier prices for a S in his prime but call me crazy and not wanting another aging retread who was clearly on the downside for anyone with half an eye and not dazzled by the, oh he's the next Rodney look at all those former pro-bowls, mentally that people went gaga over. Harmon looks ok to handle the SS position on coverage downs but Whitner would be a big boast in short downs covering TE's and as a harder hitting S on early downs.

Yeah what an idiot BB is for spending a whopping .009% of the cap on a 33 year old 6 foot 3 physical specimen who if he hadn't torn his achilles would have been the 2 down in the box physical presence that this team missed last year.

Thank God he didn't listen to couch GM's like Pats Eng and paid out the assss for 42 million dollar FREE SAFETY Goldson and got 70 tackle 0 sack 1 interception production last year from a second Free Safety that Gregory matched in production with his 79 tackle 1 sack 0 int.

I like Whitner as well as long as his contract is reasonable. He is a thumper, a hard hitting safety who gives up plays n coverage(you know like Adrian Wilson but he will cost 6x as much) but we will have one of the best safeties in the league, a newly extended Devin McCourty to cover for him so it could work.

Well look at it this way truechamp, because we didn't sign Goldson when we had him sitting across from Belichick three years ago (or Whitner for that matter), we have had to go and spend money on Steven Gregory, Adrian Wilson...then draft Tavon Wilson and Harmon. Where's the return on your investment from that? A second round pick, a third round pick (or was it a fourth for Harmon?), a contract for Gregory, a contract for Adrain Wilson...yet none of them is the answer. Sounds swell.

And we're not done - we are going to waste more resources to find a safety - what will it be? The draft? Free agency? Trade? Either way we will continue to spend to get someone in here that can play, when we could of signed someone three years ago that could. This is what is broken in our team building approach, it is all about "value" now and "return on our investment", instead orf worrying about getting the better player. And you're just thrilled.

We would have had to draft players in the 2nd round, the 3rd round, the 4rth round etc..etc.. if we signed Goldson or not.

Wait, you think it would have been a good move to sign Goldson to 42 million? Put it on the record bud.

He won't put it on record that he thinks Goldson was worth that contract. Goldson only went shopping in 2011 to see if he COULD get that contract. When he didn't, he used his cache on SF to springboard it to a bloated deal and dupe a GM.

Mt Hurl would have signed him like Domenick in TB did, and he'd be fired too.

Either GMs get salary allocation and the market, or they don't.

Russ, I think you're a complete psycho, off the reservation, one flew over the cuckoo's nest, but you are absolutely correct on this topic. Guys sit around and say, "we should have done this, or we should have done that" but what has kept us in the hunt year after year, after year, after year, is an unparalled respect for discipline when budgeting the salary cap.

BB is one of the only G'sM left in the last 13 years for a reason. He doesn't have dips like Baltimore, N.Y, Pitt, N.O, Indy, etc... who have all been very good teams at one point or another wih great QB's and great coaches. I feel bad for Patriots fans who do not understand this concept because they are missing out on half the reason the team they root for is so damn good.

I'd want Whitner. He won't be a top paid S out there but should be a mid term cost and be more of a in the box hard hitting type S. I know it's a crazy notion to want to pay mid tier prices for a S in his prime but call me crazy and not wanting another aging retread who was clearly on the downside for anyone with half an eye and not dazzled by the, oh he's the next Rodney look at all those former pro-bowls, mentally that people went gaga over. Harmon looks ok to handle the SS position on coverage downs but Whitner would be a big boast in short downs covering TE's and as a harder hitting S on early downs.

Yeah what an idiot BB is for spending a whopping .009% of the cap on a 33 year old 6 foot 3 physical specimen who if he hadn't torn his achilles would have been the 2 down in the box physical presence that this team missed last year.

Thank God he didn't listen to couch GM's like Pats Eng and paid out the assss for 42 million dollar FREE SAFETY Goldson and got 70 tackle 0 sack 1 interception production last year from a second Free Safety that Gregory matched in production with his 79 tackle 1 sack 0 int.

I like Whitner as well as long as his contract is reasonable. He is a thumper, a hard hitting safety who gives up plays n coverage(you know like Adrian Wilson but he will cost 6x as much) but we will have one of the best safeties in the league, a newly extended Devin McCourty to cover for him so it could work.

Well look at it this way truechamp, because we didn't sign Goldson when we had him sitting across from Belichick three years ago (or Whitner for that matter), we have had to go and spend money on Steven Gregory, Adrian Wilson...then draft Tavon Wilson and Harmon. Where's the return on your investment from that? A second round pick, a third round pick (or was it a fourth for Harmon?), a contract for Gregory, a contract for Adrain Wilson...yet none of them is the answer. Sounds swell.

And we're not done - we are going to waste more resources to find a safety - what will it be? The draft? Free agency? Trade? Either way we will continue to spend to get someone in here that can play, when we could of signed someone three years ago that could. This is what is broken in our team building approach, it is all about "value" now and "return on our investment", instead orf worrying about getting the better player. And you're just thrilled.

So you wanted to rent Goldson for a year and then pay him 7-8 million per for that production?

LOL!

Again, you just don't get it. You don't get the cap. Goldson going shopping for the highest price in 2011 is Goldson going shopping for the highest price. He's Brandon Meriweather your buddy.

He was suspended last year for head hits and the TB GM just got fired as I predicted afte a myriad of moronic signings, trades or contracts (paying two Guards 8 mil per).

The fact that you would call him Brandon Merriweather - the third best safety in the entire AFC according to you - is a clear indication that you don't understand football.

Goldson is NOT Merriweather...Merriweather was a dumb, undersized safety that couldn't tackle, choose the right angle, understand a defense or scare anyone. Do you know what happened to all those players Merriweather hit when they went over the middle? They caught the ball. Do you know what happens when Goldson hits them? They sometimes catch...and other times drop it, but they always are worried. That guy can play in the box, Merriweather and every safety we've had for the last five years can't.

And don't talk about paying guards, we have one counting 12 million against the cap this year and another counting four...do the math bozo.

We would have had to draft players in the 2nd round, the 3rd round, the 4rth round etc..etc.. if we signed Goldson or not.

Wait, you think it would have been a good move to sign Goldson to 42 million? Put it on the record bud.

Yes we would have, maybe it would have been a RG we drafted, or a C, or even (gasp) a DT. Now I know those are useless positions that we didn't need at all and couldn't have sed help in, in the least but something tells me having extra high picks you could spend on other positions instead of another would have helped this team. But, that would be crazy

Yeah what an idiot BB is for spending a whopping .009% of the cap on a 33 year old 6 foot 3 physical specimen who if he hadn't torn his achilles would have been the 2 down in the box physical presence that this team missed last year.

Thank God he didn't listen to couch GM's like Pats Eng and paid out the assss for 42 million dollar FREE SAFETY Goldson and got 70 tackle 0 sack 1 interception production last year from a second Free Safety that Gregory matched in production with his 79 tackle 1 sack 0 int.

I like Whitner as well as long as his contract is reasonable. He is a thumper, a hard hitting safety who gives up plays n coverage(you know like Adrian Wilson but he will cost 6x as much) but we will have one of the best safeties in the league, a newly extended Devin McCourty to cover for him so it could work.

Wait a min we signed a saftey for $11k wow who was that? all I know is we paid one 1.05% of the cap to sign at home and if cut 1.6% to sit on his butt because that's what I call value. It was a nice gesture to give him some cash before retiring for all he did in the league. Btw that injury was there before he signed. Just watch how he played in his last games with Ari and his preseason games with the Pats, it was exactly the same.

Btw if we signed Goldson 3 years ago to a multi year deal it wouldn't be for the $42mil you keep tossing out. It would be for a lot less considering it was the year the Pats decided not to sign him that he really blew up in the league. So, you could of had him for a lot less, for multiple years, had the money back from Gregory and A. Wilson and most likely wouldn't have drafted T. Wilson so a mid 2nd rounder to use at another positions. But keep believing it was good not to sign him.

I love how you make fun of me then go on to say, but yes I would like the same player you want.

WHy am I off the reservation? Because I am honest about Brady's subpar postseasons for so long, average, good or great weaponry?

Please explain how I am a psycho an honest, passionate and diehard fan, please.

Why? well no doubt TB has had subpar games in playoff games over the years. no doubt. numbers dont lie.

doesnt help in SB42 his O-line had a complete meltdown that game. and one of the most unlikely (Asante drop) and unlucky (Tyree) plays went down to end our perfect year.

Brady has left the field in two SB's with the lead. the lead. and the defense who played so great (which they did compared to season averages) cant make ONE stop. TWICE. TWICE.

then you blame it all on the TB's ego to play shotgun and spread, when all in all its your GOD BB who builds this team and implements what he wants to implement. he has overall say on build of the team which has been the pass-first offense WHICH BB HAS BUILT.

and, BB is such a 'defensive genious' when in all honesty his defense havent been able to make a big play since 2007.

and I'm someone who puts blind faith in the D. I want to think they wont let me down but time and time again they do.

but s h i t I still have faith. i think we'll have a top 5 D next year if healthy.

stop totally blaming Brady in a team game. including the God BB

you're pyscho because you continue to call out bustchise time and time again. and you think at least 20 people here are busty... just ignore anyone you think is bustchise and you will have done this board a service in that.

I'd want Whitner. He won't be a top paid S out there but should be a mid term cost and be more of a in the box hard hitting type S. I know it's a crazy notion to want to pay mid tier prices for a S in his prime but call me crazy and not wanting another aging retread who was clearly on the downside for anyone with half an eye and not dazzled by the, oh he's the next Rodney look at all those former pro-bowls, mentally that people went gaga over. Harmon looks ok to handle the SS position on coverage downs but Whitner would be a big boast in short downs covering TE's and as a harder hitting S on early downs.

Yeah what an idiot BB is for spending a whopping .009% of the cap on a 33 year old 6 foot 3 physical specimen who if he hadn't torn his achilles would have been the 2 down in the box physical presence that this team missed last year.

Thank God he didn't listen to couch GM's like Pats Eng and paid out the assss for 42 million dollar FREE SAFETY Goldson and got 70 tackle 0 sack 1 interception production last year from a second Free Safety that Gregory matched in production with his 79 tackle 1 sack 0 int.

I like Whitner as well as long as his contract is reasonable. He is a thumper, a hard hitting safety who gives up plays n coverage(you know like Adrian Wilson but he will cost 6x as much) but we will have one of the best safeties in the league, a newly extended Devin McCourty to cover for him so it could work.

Well look at it this way truechamp, because we didn't sign Goldson when we had him sitting across from Belichick three years ago (or Whitner for that matter), we have had to go and spend money on Steven Gregory, Adrian Wilson...then draft Tavon Wilson and Harmon. Where's the return on your investment from that? A second round pick, a third round pick (or was it a fourth for Harmon?), a contract for Gregory, a contract for Adrain Wilson...yet none of them is the answer. Sounds swell.

And we're not done - we are going to waste more resources to find a safety - what will it be? The draft? Free agency? Trade? Either way we will continue to spend to get someone in here that can play, when we could of signed someone three years ago that could. This is what is broken in our team building approach, it is all about "value" now and "return on our investment", instead orf worrying about getting the better player. And you're just thrilled.

We would have had to draft players in the 2nd round, the 3rd round, the 4rth round etc..etc.. if we signed Goldson or not.

Wait, you think it would have been a good move to sign Goldson to 42 million? Put it on the record bud.

Yeah you're right we would of had to draft players...like defensive linemen, receivers, offensive linemen, tightends...you know? Other things.

He won't put it on record that he thinks Goldson was worth that contract. Goldson only went shopping in 2011 to see if he COULD get that contract. When he didn't, he used his cache on SF to springboard it to a bloated deal and dupe a GM.

Mt Hurl would have signed him like Domenick in TB did, and he'd be fired too.

Either GMs get salary allocation and the market, or they don't.

I'll tell you what, I wouldn't of signed Shaun Ellis (talk about getting duped)...guy can barely stand on his own two feet for the jets his last year there and we give him 4 million per...now that's dumb. Hey was Ellis even alive when we signed him? Did he have a pulse? Or did they announce his time of death right after he signed? lol!

What did you say at the time? Oh yeah, "Bill Belichick laying in the weeds! The warnings were out people! We just fleeced the jets". My lord you are a fool.