This was bugging me at work last night, actully for a long time. If I don't honer my mother and forgive her - I'm the one going to hell. If God loves me so much, why did he put me in this position? Think About it. What if she truly repents and is forgiven by god. It doesn't change the fact that I'm a train wreck. I think If he forgives her then he has a responsability to heal me, but what if he doesn't? Why does it seem like the deck is stacked in her favor no matter what the situation? Cause she's my GD mother, that's why. She's a happy go lucky perp a I'm screwed.

I'll just say that we all have in first place huge amount of work related to our own well being and recovery from so devastating thing like abuse - if we all don't do that we could actually be and are on way heading to place called "hell" . So stop wasting your energy on some hypothetical issues and go working on yourself ! Secondly as you are lamenting on your forgiveness, please step aside and think more on this. To be able to forgive to abuser - work that should be done to understand overall picture is even greater and task more complicated. There are many situations when it is not healthy and not possible to forgive. This is not religious question. And no one would go to hell because of that.Please try to put more energy in understanding your abusers and their actions. And try to find what devastating things they did to you. I'll recommend you book for all this issue about forgiving your mum. Based on your threads it is obvious that your both parents were toxic and that they didn't give you enough some basic thing needed for your well being as developing child, that thing is called love. I'm sure that they actually are on speed train heading to place where you are pushing yourself in this thread. Sorry but there are too many passengers already on board !So please try to find book called: Toxic Parents; Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Lifeby Susan ForwardHere is link to book at amazon, see description and issues that this book covers: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcomi...239&s=booksConsider that book as some kind of homework and program, it leads you to reveling many sides of relationship abusive parent-child. Main intent is to give you strength and understanding of your position and persuade you to put some border against abusive parents, it is needed at all costs to do that, it is very important for your own health and future life. Main goal is to make clear message to abusive parents in form of written letter. Secondary goal after confrontation to abusive parents is explanation how to understand their position and to try to forgive them. But have in mind that there is some order to come there and forgiveness is last and not so important for abused child's well being as some first steps...If you can't buy that book, here is very nicely designed web page about toxic parents (but book as personal program is for me better thing to consider): http://www.lightshouse.org/index.html#axzz1qiezuZoxHeal well my brother! Be Well!Pero

I too was abused by my mother who also talked of God. It has taken me a long time to understand the "truths" in my life. I will not presume to know what you are going through but, I can say your NOT alone.

I will state some of my God centered beliefs here. These beliefs are NOT religious but, God centered.

What is difficult to do - I will admit before I say it - is to Love yourself. The term - unconditional positive regard - is one I believe needs to be used in relation to "good" parents, ourselves and God.

The second most difficult thing to do is to be concerned only about yourself and NOT about her. God loves you unconditionally.

The third most difficult thing to do is forgive yourself. I heard just recently from a well known and respected clergy man that forgiveness is about forgiving yourself first. Forgiveness is not about forgetting the past and forgiveness does not absolve the perpetrator even a female perpetrator - (absove meeans to be free from guilt or blame or their consequences) perpetrator.

What I had to do was separate myself from the abusers. Then, I could "look" at myself, my behaviors and God. I say God - not religion.

I'm a former church minister and my abuser was my wife who remains a church minister. Forget any concepts that you may have been taught by your church. Foscus on you, find ways of being you, do things that are important to you, look for fulfillment in the here and now. My experience is that many christians preach love and forgiveness but fail to practise them themselves. Don't worry about them - try and be the person you were made/created to be.

Thanks Si, I've learned to be more spritual then religous in my life, but sometimes the old memories creep back in and really throw me into a tail spin. I'm fine and then ready to have a meltdown. After laying it out and hearing from you guys, Ifeel much better. thanks again.

Great to see you doing good things Ctznken , just go forward like that, we all are sometimes too passive and need to learn being more afirmitive. I'm in first place sometimes like that and need some push from others. Just keep working on self and you will be on path in opsit direction from "hell" !Heal Well!Pero

Oh my my, please my fellows Americans, please put those religious thoughts in some important matters aside, there has to be some order and you all regularly are mixing different things Sorry, I'm coming from different cultural background and it is very hard for me watching you hurting yourself additionally with your moral issues and thus actually making harder your recovery. ... So stop wasting your energy on some hypothetical issues and go working on yourself ! ... and forgive me if I rudely spoke about religious matters, it is my non English brain that is producing such words , consider all this of cultural issues and stick yourself with your fate/believes. Be Well!Pero

Pero - you know i love you and you've helped encourage me a lot.

BUT this time, you just don't "get it."

For many of us, the way we were raised in an extremely strong religious environment is completely inseparable from who we are, how we think, the feelings we have, the relationships with parents, authourity figures, the church, and the way we see the WHOLE WORLD and LIFE and DEATH!!!

To say just forget it or put it aside is like telling a survivor of CSA - just forget it and move on. Not that easy. you gotta deal with that form of spiritual abuse that is intricately intertwined with any other types of physical, emotional, sexual abuse like the nerves trhough the human body. even if it was not perpetrated by an official representative of the church such as a priest or minister, if it was done by someone claiming a religious identity or in an environment where a religious system was prevalent - i just gets very complicated....

i am not angry with you - just trying to help you understand how it is for some of us.

Lee

_________________________
"Tell your heart that the fear of suffering is worse than the suffering itself... And that no heart has ever suffered when it goes in search of its dreams, because every second of the search is a second's encounter with God and with eternity." - Paulo Coelho

Sorry Lee, sorry Ctznken and all my American fellows, it is really cultural thing, and I understand you and your feelings completely! Well maybe almost completely!I've been overwhelmed because of some other similar topic and maybe I went too far, my intention certainly was not to tell: "forget about religious matters". That is imposible to expect...I just wanted to show some other perspective but obviously there is huge barrier to do it on easy way and with few words (and my English is not good enough at the moment to correctly write my thoughts on this in short). Sorry one more time for inconvenience and my rudeness about all this! Please forgive me !

no hard feelings - and i appreciate your attempt to urge us to see things from another point of view. now you know what we are dealing with - another whole layer of distorted thinking and feelings with very strong guilt stresses - as if we didn't have enuf of that already!

Lee

_________________________
"Tell your heart that the fear of suffering is worse than the suffering itself... And that no heart has ever suffered when it goes in search of its dreams, because every second of the search is a second's encounter with God and with eternity." - Paulo Coelho

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