Question about Aircraft Carriers & Fighters

Here’s the situation, I have a Japanese Aircraft Carrier in Japan with no planes on it, and it is attacking the US fleet off the coast of Wake Island. The US also has control of Wake Is.

Can I fly two fighters from French Indo-China Burma to the Wake Is. coast and attack the US fleet, assuming that I win, my Japanese Aircraft Carrier survives, and my fighters will land on my Carrier?

Is this move legal, or is it considered a Kamikaze attack and therefore, illegal?

Similarly, for the opening move for Japan, can I attack the Hawaiian Is. with my Carrier and Fighter, then choose to lose my Carrier as a casualty? Does my Fighter fight until the end, then crash because it has no where to land?

Drat! I posted, then the site crashed & everybody beat me to it. Oh well, Wild is correct–best way to handle these situations is to designate a landing point on your Combat Move for each of your FTRs. Keep these landing points in mind as you choose casualties (i.e. always choose the planes w/ the LEAST remaining movement points as casualties first!).

And yes–in 3rd Edition rules, surviving defending planes have 1 M.P. to land on an adjacent friendly island OR land territory (or CV as the case may be). This prevents such illogical instances as a FTR on a(destroyed) CV in the West USA SZ not being allowed to land on adjacent Western USA.

You bumped! :lol: :-?
Whyed you bump me?
–----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“When men have minds set on victory, all they see is the enemy. When men have minds filled with fear, all they see is their fear.” - The Methods of the Minister of Wae, Fourth century B.C. Chinese military textbook

Another small detail to keep in mind is that you cannot make the combat move unless there is a legal landing spot for all the aircraft at the end of combat movement/before combat. For example, you cannot fly out 3 fighters to the carrier and expect one of them to be taken as a casualty. That would be illegal.

Another small detail to keep in mind is that you cannot make the combat move unless there is a legal landing spot for all the aircraft at the end of combat movement/before combat. For example, you cannot fly out 3 fighters to the carrier and expect one of them to be taken as a casualty. That would be illegal.

I don’t think he covered the idea that all aircraft must have a landing spot before combat can begin. In that particular case it was clear what the rule is but I didn’t think he explained the whole story.

When I’m making my combat moves, I tend to take back some moves and adjust others to make everything work out for the aircraft landings. For example, I might fly out 3 fighters to a single carrier and leave them there while I do some other combat moves. Then, before declaring my combat movements complete, I’ll go back and double check that all my moves are legal and possibly move in another aircraft carrier, move the 3rd fighter back, etc.

In other words, you are not required (as far as I know) to make each combat move legal one at a time. You just have to make sure all the aircraft have legal landing spots before combat begins.

Maybe the point is too subtle but I’ve run into people that believe each independent combat move must be legal at the time you make it.

It is legal for you planes to fly into a navy battle as long as there is a possiblity for the planes to land. Thus, if your attacking fighters moved 4 spaces to the battle, there has to be a carrier in the same SZ it can land on.

This quote sure makes it sound like you need to determine if the aircraft have a legal landing space prior to when combat begins. I would think that a battle does not begin until the combat move is complete.

I do not think there is anyone out there who will not let you tinker with combat moves until you make all of them legal.

When making legal combat moves, you always want to look out for the Best case scenario, meaning you assume that all three ftrs would survive. If there are no other spots to land than the carrier (say and island), then the move would be illegal.

When making legal combat moves, you always want to look out for the Best case scenario, meaning you assume that all three ftrs would survive. If there are no other spots to land than the carrier (say and island), then the move would be illegal.

Would you then say that each aircraft combat move must be 100% legal when you make it?

I lean towards letting a player do whatever they want to do with their combat moves during combat movement. If a player wants to make an illegal combat move (i.e. 3 fighters to 1 carrier) and correct it later then that’s fine with me. What’s important is that none of the combat moves are illegal when combat starts.

Of course, you have to be reasonable and not let things get out of control as well which is why most people prefer to see landing spots marked as they go along. Still, I don’t believe the official rules intend that you make 100% legal aircraft combat moves as you make them. That’s just too inflexible.

Darn it… somehow I got myself logged out before posting this under my userid :-?

@TG:

When making legal combat moves, you always want to look out for the Best case scenario, meaning you assume that all three ftrs would survive. If there are no other spots to land than the carrier (say and island), then the move would be illegal.

Would you then say that each aircraft combat move must be 100% legal when you make it?

I lean towards letting a player do whatever they want to do with their combat moves during combat movement. If a player wants to make an illegal combat move (i.e. 3 fighters to 1 carrier) and correct it later then that’s fine with me. What’s important is that none of the combat moves are illegal when combat starts.

Of course, you have to be reasonable and not let things get out of control as well which is why most people prefer to see landing spots marked as they go along. Still, I don’t believe the official rules intend that you make 100% legal aircraft combat moves as you make them. That’s just too inflexible.

Would you then say that each aircraft combat move must be 100% legal when you make it?

Assuming if that’s the case, then “yes.” Aren’t the rules like that?

After another read or two through the rules I’d say the rules tend more towards each combat move being legal at the time it is made although it is never unambiguously stated that way.

Still, when it comes to aircraft combat moves, I’ve personally made exceptions. When you have lots of aircraft involved in a large battle, it can get rather frustrating for some people when they need to worry about a landing spot as each move is being made. Instead, I let them move their aircraft around and then explain their battle plan after they are done.

I suppose the conclusion is that it is actually a matter of personal taste.

Well I do admit it sometimes tough to land fighters from different territories after a major battle. The Battle of the Atlantic with the Luftwaffe is a perfect example of this. I this case, rather the assign movement points to each plane, I’ll probably let them land at optimal range.

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Well there are two ways for the axis to win; either take two capitals or get an economic victory. Yes, my plan would be to go after Russia. I think 21 ipc might be a bit low to do this (I might give it a try for fun though).
Taking the US or UK isn’t realistically going to happen without acheiving what would be an economic victory anyway; so what is the best way for the Axis to do this - Russia or Africa?
In my opinion, Africa is not rich enough to justify a massive Axis attempt to hold in the early game - especially as the US/UK are always going to be able to send more resources there than the Axis. They generally take Africa back before Japan gains enough in Asia for an economic victory. Additionally, if Germany sends too much resources there, the Russians become problematic.
If Russia falls however, then the Axis will soon have all Asia and for an economic victory then the Axis can take a look at Africa again.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
BigBlocky relax, man!
The “when the Axis meet in Persia, they cannot be knocked off their inertia” is just a general rule of thumb, not some kind of victory condition! With that in mind, Morphling was just saying that when the Allies meet in Berlin, the game is probably in the bag for them, as the Axis generally can’t win on the force of 1 alone.
The only “official” victory conditions are military victory for the Allies (capture 2 enemy capitals); military victory or economic victory for the Axis (capture 2 enemy capitals, or have a combined income of 84+ IPCs at the end of any round of play). Anything else is a house rule or special rule…
Ozone27