I was under the impression McLaren had been sabotaging Lewis's car to help Button to close up?!

That is just another conspiracy theory that has no basis in fact. They want to overtake Ferrari and finish second at all costs and sabotaging Hamilton's car is not the way to do it. Moreover, if by some chance they are caught, the repercussions could be serious.

I THINK, that SilverstoneRegular's comment was tongue in cheek. Anyone really believing in the McLaren sabotage needs help.

_________________"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I was under the impression McLaren had been sabotaging Lewis's car to help Button to close up?!

That is just another conspiracy theory that has no basis in fact. They want to overtake Ferrari and finish second at all costs and sabotaging Hamilton's car is not the way to do it. Moreover, if by some chance they are caught, the repercussions could be serious.

I THINK, that SilverstoneRegular's comment was tongue in cheek. Anyone really believing in the McLaren sabotage needs help.

I was under the impression McLaren had been sabotaging Lewis's car to help Button to close up?!

That is just another conspiracy theory that has no basis in fact. They want to overtake Ferrari and finish second at all costs and sabotaging Hamilton's car is not the way to do it. Moreover, if by some chance they are caught, the repercussions could be serious.

I THINK, that SilverstoneRegular's comment was tongue in cheek. Anyone really believing in the McLaren sabotage needs help.

Well spotted Jammy

Sometimes this sarcasm lark is just there to be noticed for some.

_________________"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

* Nico Rosberg takes a narrow 9-8 lead in the race head to head with Michael Schumacher* Kamui Kobayashi finishes ahead of Perez to square up the race head to head at 9-9 and season overall 17-17* Bruno Senna finishes ahead of Maldonado for the 11th time this season, now 11-6 ahead in the race head to head* Nico Hulkenberg inches ahead of Paul Di Resta 9-8 in the race head to head extending his overall season lead to 18-16* Vitaly Petrov maintains his lead season charge on Kovalainen's race head to head lead, now just 9-8 to Heikki

* Mark Webber shows Sebastien Vettel isn't necessarily the quickest driver over one lap at Red Bull out-qualifying him for the second time in three races bringing the quali stat to 10-8 (just 1 GP difference)* Kimi Raikkonen squares up the qualifying head to head with Romain Grosjean at 9-9 (albeit Grosjean was absent for a GP)* Nico Rosberg levels his qualifying head to head with Schumacher at 9 GPs each (9-9) and re-takes a lead in the overall season head to head* Sergio Perez out-qualifies Kobayashi to take the lead in the head to head quali stat at 10-9 and open a narrow 18-17 lead for the season* Nico Hulkenberg out-qualifies Di Resta again to continue his charge now leading 10-8 in quali, 19-16 for the season* Charles Pic narrows the gap to Timo Glock in quali, now 11-7 Glock

* Sebastien Vettel has now finished ahead in twice as many races as Mark Webber, it's 12-6 in the race head to head* Jenson Button narrows the race head to head to 10-8 in Hamilton's favour following LH's retirement in Abu Dhabi* Michael Schumacher levels things up in the season head to head, now 9-9 in the race head to head stat and 18-18 overall* Kamui Kobayashi took full advantage of Perez's retirement by finishing 6th and taking a race head to head lead, 18-18 overall* Pastor Maldonado closes the race gap to 11-7 in Senna's favour, quite remarkable considering Pastor's 16-2 quali lead* Paul Di Resta pulls one back on Nico Hulkenberg, now 9-9 in the race stat for the season* Kovalainen extends the narrow race lead on Petrov to 10-8

Full stats are in the opening post on this thread and as ever open to correction due to any potential mistakes.

* Sebastien Vettel has now finished ahead in twice as many races as Mark Webber, it's 12-6 in the race head to head* Jenson Button narrows the race head to head to 10-8 in Hamilton's favour following LH's retirement in Abu Dhabi* Michael Schumacher levels things up in the season head to head, now 9-9 in the race head to head stat and 18-18 overall* Kamui Kobayashi took full advantage of Perez's retirement by finishing 6th and taking a race head to head lead, 18-18 overall* Pastor Maldonado closes the race gap to 11-7 in Senna's favour, quite remarkable considering Pastor's 16-2 quali lead* Paul Di Resta pulls one back on Nico Hulkenberg, now 9-9 in the race stat for the season* Kovalainen extends the narrow race lead on Petrov to 10-8

Full stats are in the opening post on this thread and as ever open to correction due to any potential mistakes.

Interesting how close all the teammates seem to be, besides Button and Webber. Are Button and Webber the slowest drivers on the grid?

Not entirely serious, but it seems that - perhaps because F1 is a tyre conservation formula - it makes the teammates close to each other?

Interesting how close all the teammates seem to be, besides Button and Webber. Are Button and Webber the slowest drivers on the grid?

Not sure where you get that from. Webber and Vettel are very even in quali and Button's race head to head is not that distant from Hamilton's. There are teammates who are really not evenly matched (e.g. Massa/Alonso, De La Rosa/Karthikeyan).

Quote:

Not entirely serious, but it seems that - perhaps because F1 is a tyre conservation formula - it makes the teammates close to each other?

There are a group of close teammates but some others are not so close. Of those that are close, they are simply performing to a similar level.

how can you give Button Singapore and Abu Dhabi? Absolutely destroyed by his teammate in qualifying and the race. Hamilton was another planet to JB during those weekends.

These stats are based purely on results not subjective opinion (PF1 do opinion on the mainpage). Hamilton got both head to head quali points, but Button finished in the points at both races (2nd & 4th) whereas Hamilton didn't finish.

how can you give Button Singapore and Abu Dhabi? Absolutely destroyed by his teammate in qualifying and the race. Hamilton was another planet to JB during those weekends.

These stats are based purely on results not subjective opinion. Hamilton got both head to head quali points, but Button finished in the points at both races whereas Hamilton didn't finish.

But under this understanding then Hamilton shouldn't be awarded Spain qualifying nor China. If we are basing it purely on [b]results[/b Button should have China, Germany, Spain , Spa, and Japan. Despite being in fact (not opinion) slower in China (0.5s) and Spain, do you see the problem of just basing it on results? If we are just doing it based on results why bother with teammate wars when we can just look at the standings?

Based on that stat, a driver who trundles around at the back , will be better than his team mate who probably had many( non fault) DNFs in the lead

A driver who finishes the race gets the nod over the one who doesn't.

As I said, it's purely based on results as ultimately that is all that is remembered. There are other columns online which offer subjective opinion for those who prefer that approach.

CalMac wrote:

But under this understanding then Hamilton shouldn't be awarded Spain qualifying nor China. If we are basing it purely on [b]results[/b Button should have China, Germany, Spain , Spa, and Japan. Despite being in fact (not opinion) slower in China (0.5s) and Spain, do you see the problem of just basing it on results? If we are just doing it based on results why bother with teammate wars when we can just look at the standings?

Incidentally, I am a Hamilton fan and these stats will reflect that he has already finished the season ahead of Button in qualifying and races whereas the FIA's WDC standings could well have Button ahead by the end (12pts between them as of now).

I know which I feel to be more just and reflective of reality. If you go down the opinion route then everything becomes up for debate and it's all down to the individual preference, this thread avoids that.

Incidentally, I am a Hamilton fan and these stats will reflect that he has already finished the season ahead of Button in qualifying and races whereas the FIA's WDC standings could well have Button ahead by the end (12pts between them as of now).

I know which I feel to be more just and reflective of reality. If you go down the opinion route then everything becomes up for debate and it's all down to the individual preference, this thread avoids that.

Are going to change the qualifying to represent the results then? In the first post, Button: China, Spain, Spa, Germany and Japan therefore 13-5

how can you give Button Singapore and Abu Dhabi? Absolutely destroyed by his teammate in qualifying and the race. Hamilton was another planet to JB during those weekends.

Button finished.

But who was better overall during the weekend? Which is what i thought the point of TMW was..

You may not "almost finish" if no result = failThese Teammate wars by AD are just weird, how can you award points to a racer who does not post a result?

Suddenly it's a matter of taste instead of hard facts.

If you want "hard facts", you can always look at the championship. Like on Schumi/Nico and Lewis/Jenson, it doesn't tell the best story of the job they have done. Should be about equal, and a much bigger gap, respectively.

Its been v interesting even though, if I understand correctly, its unable to reflect the races where a team member had a DNF as a result of mechanical failure. I gather the other team member automatically wins this point as its a true representation of who achieved a better position at the end of the race.

A big thanks to Formula1Fan for taking the time and effort to come up with this and update it .

* Felipe Massa out-qualifies his teammate on merit to pull it back to 17-2 in quali* Romain Grosjean takes a 10-9 lead in quali after bettering his teammate Kimi Raikkonen once again* Michael Schumacher takes a narrow 10-9 lead over Rosberg in the quali stakes* Sergio Perez opens out a 2 session gap on Kobayashi in quali for the first time this season* Nico Hulkenberg opens out a 20-17 gap and 11-8 gap in quali in the overall lead against Paul Di Resta* Jean-Eric Vergne out-qualified Daniel Ricciardo for only the fourth time out of 19 this season

* Pastor Maldonado narrows the gap in the race to 11-8 with Bruno Senna who still holds the advantage overall* Nico Hulkenberg completes the Austin double over Di Resta and opening a race head to head lead of 10-9* Vitaly Petrov maintains his end of season charge drawing his race stat with Heiki Kovalainan back to just 10-9 in the Finn's favour

I can't help but think Maldonado and Grosjean are in serious need of patience on Sundays, when looking at their qualifications and race results. (Being very noticeable in Valencia where impatience by Maldonado caused an incident battling for a spot that he was very clearly going to take within the next lap or 2 because he had the better lap times during that stint and had closed to a point where the only issue was 'when' not 'if' he would overtake Hamilton.)

The Williams, Lotus and STR breakdowns were the most interesting to me given the significant difference between Saturday results and Sunday results.

Just narrowing to my own firsthand focus, being in T3 at Austin with the tight S's, in front of me, there seemed little difference between Kimi and Romain with their lines through the S's. And with the exception of Saturday morning, they were very close in their times throughout the practice and qualifying sessions. But then on Sunday, Kimi executes one of the better battles and passes with Button, while the debate was how many times Grosjean had gone off (we were sure of 3).

Meanwhile, with the Williams, Maldonado seemed much tighter in his line, with much more speed through the T3-4-5-6 sequence, seeming much more aggressive through them. When the discussion of whether Senna deserve a spot on the 2013 grid came up in one of the threads, I was thinking 'eh'... he didn't really do anything to distinguish himself one way or another IMO. And really he was significantly off Maldonado's pace in Austin, pretty much for all but Q1. But then on Sunday as is evidenced by the stats, it was a different story. While Maldonado did score higher, it was just 1 place and 0.6 seconds than Senna. Whatever advantage Maldonado may have had with speed, it evidently doesn't translate into better results than Senna on Sundays.

I think the challenge will be if Maldonado can learn more patience on Sundays without sacrificing too much of his speed and aggression in finding the best racing lines.

I think his progress and Rosberg's could be the most interesting for 2013 (though not getting as much attention as Perez's transition/development at McLaren). Both have shown the ability to be seriously fast IMO, but Fridays and Saturdays are not Sundays, so there will need to be more.

I was also surprised at how closely the numbers were at Mercedes. Perhaps it was that it was a new and unfamiliar tract, but the group I was sitting with all seemed to feel Michael looked to be driving so cautiously. Whereas Rosberg really caught my attention with a really strong stint, that had him atop the list in P2 until the teams switched over the Medium options and times plummeted. But Rosberg took over that spot by a good margin and held it throughout as drivers continued to bring down their individual times on the Hard options. And he topped Michael anywhere from 0.5 seconds to 1.4 seconds in the practice sessions and then registers 17th in Q1 and Q2.

I can't help but think Maldonado and Grosjean are in serious need of patience on Sundays, when looking at their qualifications and race results. (Being very noticeable in Valencia where impatience by Maldonado caused an incident battling for a spot that he was very clearly going to take within the next lap or 2 because he had the better lap times during that stint and had closed to a point where the only issue was 'when' not 'if' he would overtake Hamilton.)

The Williams, Lotus and STR breakdowns were the most interesting to me given the significant difference between Saturday results and Sunday results.

Just narrowing to my own firsthand focus, being in T3 at Austin with the tight S's, in front of me, there seemed little difference between Kimi and Romain with their lines through the S's. And with the exception of Saturday morning, they were very close in their times throughout the practice and qualifying sessions. But then on Sunday, Kimi executes one of the better battles and passes with Button, while the debate was how many times Grosjean had gone off (we were sure of 3).

Meanwhile, with the Williams, Maldonado seemed much tighter in his line, with much more speed through the T3-4-5-6 sequence, seeming much more aggressive through them. When the discussion of whether Senna deserve a spot on the 2013 grid came up in one of the threads, I was thinking 'eh'... he didn't really do anything to distinguish himself one way or another IMO. And really he was significantly off Maldonado's pace in Austin, pretty much for all but Q1. But then on Sunday as is evidenced by the stats, it was a different story. While Maldonado did score higher, it was just 1 place and 0.6 seconds than Senna. Whatever advantage Maldonado may have had with speed, it evidently doesn't translate into better results than Senna on Sundays.

I think the challenge will be if Maldonado can learn more patience on Sundays without sacrificing too much of his speed and aggression in finding the best racing lines.

I think his progress and Rosberg's could be the most interesting for 2013 (though not getting as much attention as Perez's transition/development at McLaren). Both have shown the ability to be seriously fast IMO, but Fridays and Saturdays are not Sundays, so there will need to be more.

I was also surprised at how closely the numbers were at Mercedes. Perhaps it was that it was a new and unfamiliar tract, but the group I was sitting with all seemed to feel Michael looked to be driving so cautiously. Whereas Rosberg really caught my attention with a really strong stint, that had him atop the list in P2 until the teams switched over the Medium options and times plummeted. But Rosberg took over that spot by a good margin and held it throughout as drivers continued to bring down their individual times on the Hard options. And he topped Michael anywhere from 0.5 seconds to 1.4 seconds in the practice sessions and then registers 17th in Q1 and Q2.

I wasn't suprised at the MS/NR statistics as I've been watching them this season, but am suprised that you are suprised .

Schumi DNF'd pretty much every race at the beginning of the season for mechanical reasons. During this time the car was competitive and Rosberg gained most of his points. As the season progressed (and Schumi ended his run of DNFs), Schumi finished higher than Rosberg pretty much every race, but by then the car was a mid-fielder at best, so few points were to be gained.