Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

Originally Posted by rand49er

Met a guy today that works on the ATS at GM. We were both on the Fall Cruise that Torxila (George) posted a thread about. This guy wouldn't reveal any info but did say that he couldn't believe that Akerson actually told the public what motor would be going into the ATS-V in an interview or some public statement. He nonetheless could not come right out and say what it is.

So, I searched for information on his statement and found two interesting items. The first one is the 6.2L with 470 hp as we've mentioned above. The other speaks of 530 hp but a little less directly:

If anyone can find a different quote by Akerson that's more to the point than what I've found, post it up please.

Another very interesting tidbit, besides his confirmation that a manual trans would be offered, was a discussion we had regarding weight. "This guy" says he was personally very pleased with how they kept the weight down ... "significantly less than the current CTS." Though he wouldn't say exactly and less than the current CTS still means oink oink, I still got the distinct impression that it was in the neighborhood of 3700 lbs, maybe something approaching 3600 lbs. I'd take anything in between. Imagine a car weighing, say, 3650 lbs (give or take) and 470 hp with a 6-spd and a warranty. Hot damn!

Heresay, heresay ... I know, I know, but I just had to post this up.

the 4.4L V8 turbo is in refernce to the S63 and S63tu, so I'm not seeing the correlation to the ATS-V in this interview, if anything it's even more confusing because the power figure he's quoting is less than what they're using to compete with said 4.4L turbo car right now. Aside from the fact that, the said 4.4L turbo V8 car is a midsized sedan and the ATS is presumably a compact.

Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

Originally Posted by M5eater

the 4.4L V8 turbo is in refernce to the S63 and S63tu, so I'm not seeing the correlation to the ATS-V in this interview, if anything it's even more confusing because the power figure he's quoting is less than what they're using to compete with said 4.4L turbo car right now. Aside from the fact that, the said 4.4L turbo V8 car is a midsized sedan and the ATS is presumably a compact.

In a recent meeting with engineers, for example, Akerson pressed them to explain the logic behind putting a big 6.2-liter engine in an unspecified car whose competitor has a 4.4-liter turbochargedengine. The engineers replied: “Well, we want to be able to beat the other guy.”
Akerson responded: “I don’t think the average buyer is going to buy an eight-cylinder, 530-horsepower (car).” His point: Decisions must be supported by a solid business case, and not just for bragging rights or as a marketing tool."

Akerson reiterates the use of a 6.2L motor while actually speaking the phrase, "530 horsepower" and seems to be referring to what the engineers are wanting to put in the ATS-V, though he doesn't actually say that that's what they're planning on doing. I mean 470 is a dream come true, while 530 hp would virtually pulverize most Euro metal. I'd have to believe that BMW is watching this closely and trying to make predictions.

On a side note, you can really tell Akerson isn't a true car guy by that last statement: "Decisions must be supported by a solid business case, and not just for bragging rights or as a marketing tool." I say, bragging rights are a big part of why guys buy these kinds of cars right along with the fun factor of driving them. Akerson is dead wrong with his statement.

In a recent meeting with engineers, for example, Akerson pressed them to explain the logic behind putting a big 6.2-liter engine in an unspecified car whose competitor has a 4.4-liter turbochargedengine.

The engineers replied: “Well, we want to be able to beat the other guy.”
Akerson responded: “I don’t think the average buyer is going to buy an eight-cylinder, 530-horsepower (car).” His point: Decisions must be supported by a solid business case, and not just for bragging rights or as a marketing tool."

Akerson reiterates the use of a 6.2L motor while actually speaking the phrase, "530 horsepower" and seems to be referring to what the engineers are wanting to put in the ATS-V, though he doesn't actually say that that's what they're planning on doing. I mean 470 is a dream come true, while 530 hp would virtually pulverize most Euro metal. I'd have to believe that BMW is watching this closely and trying to make predictions.

On a side note, you can really tell Akerson isn't a true car guy by that last statement: "Decisions must be supported by a solid business case, and not just for bragging rights or as a marketing tool." I say, bragging rights are a big part of why guys buy these kinds of cars right along with the fun factor of driving them. Akerson is dead wrong with his statement.

the 'competitor whose engine has a 4.4L turbo' is the F10 M5 with the S63tu 4.4L Twin turbocharged V8.. ergo the 6.2 they're referring to in the unspecificed car is the CTS-V, which doesn't make sense because the 6.2L LSA makes 556. It would not make sense for the ATS-V to be in competition with the F10 M5 because the ATS is a compact-- ergo it's competition is the M3/ C63 AMG, neither of which are future speced for a 4.4L turbo. The M3 is getting a turbo I6/V6 and the C63 is probally getting a smaller twin turbo 5.5L V8.

Akerson reiterates the use of a 6.2L motor while actually speaking the phrase, "530 horsepower" and seems to be referring to what the engineers are wanting to put in the ATS-V, though he doesn't actually say that that's what they're planning on doing. I mean 470 is a dream come true, while 530 hp would virtually pulverize most Euro metal. I'd have to believe that BMW is watching this closely and trying to make predictions.

see above, I don't see where they're talking about the ATS here except in the phrase unspecified car and other unreleased product talk, the context of the first paragraph does not indicate that they're referring to the ATS, it seems more that they're referring to the CTS.

Additionally, the competition package C63 is making 480hp right now.. it's going to take at least that much to keep up with the next generation C63 and M3 imo.

Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

Originally Posted by M5eater

the 'competitor whose engine has a 4.4L turbo' is the F10 M5 with the S63tu 4.4L Twin turbocharged V8.. ergo the 6.2 they're referring to in the unspecificed car is the CTS-V, which doesn't make sense because the 6.2L LSA makes 556. It would not make sense for the ATS-V to be in competition with the F10 M5 because the ATS is a compact-- ergo it's competition is the M3/ C63 AMG, neither of which are future speced for a 4.4L turbo. The M3 is getting a turbo I6/V6 and the C63 is probally getting a smaller twin turbo 5.5L V8.

see above, I don't see where they're talking about the ATS here except in the phrase unspecified car and other unreleased product talk, the context of the first paragraph does not indicate that they're referring to the ATS, it seems more that they're referring to the CTS.

Additionally, the competition package C63 is making 480hp right now.. it's going to take at least that much to keep up with the next generation C63 and M3 imo.

Don't be suprised if the new generation of cars (not including the upcoming M3) have zero to minimal HP gains from the Europeans. I think anything over 500 HP in the small luxury class is wishful (and unrealistic) thinking.

Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

Originally Posted by 0AT E03

Don't be suprised if the new generation of cars (not including the upcoming M3) have zero to minimal HP gains from the Europeans. I think anything over 500 HP in the small luxury class is wishful (and unrealistic) thinking.

The S63tu and new TT5.5L certinally haven't totally thrown caution to the wind with regard to HP increases, but they both still offer massive improvements over their predecessors. I expect something close to 500HP, and a lot of power-brand/torque improvements. The S63tu offers 500 FT/lbs of torque at 1500rpms , while the S85 yielded just 380FT/lbs, and that was at a sky-high 6100rpm's just as an example..

Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

Originally Posted by M5eater

The S63tu and new TT5.5L certinally haven't totally thrown caution to the wind with regard to HP increases, but they both still offer massive improvements over their predecessors. I expect something close to 500HP, and a lot of power-brand/torque improvements. The S63tu offers 500 FT/lbs of torque at 1500rpms , while the S85 yielded just 380FT/lbs, and that was at a sky-high 6100rpm's just as an example..

What I'm saying is don't expect that on the next round of engines. I feel that other things will be more important.