Don't know the details, but sounded like a wicked fall with Ashdale Cruise Master falling down the double bank onto Oli. According to this article the horse is ok, Oli is not. A little worried about the outcome for Oli of cushioning the fall for Cruise Master.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/oliver-townend-transported-hospital-after-fall-rolex-kentucky

Anyone know a later update on Oli's condition? I realize that news is a second priority to Oli's care at the hospital.

Or about what happened in the fall? All I know is the article.

Less importantly, it is too bad about his run for the grand slam, would have been fun to see him go the distance (especially fun for him!) But most important is that he will be alright, I hope so.

ohhthatgirl

Apr. 24, 2010, 03:48 PM

Just read this on Samantha Clark's twitter (http://twitter.com/samanthalclark):

The frangible pin at the hollow where Oli & 2 others fell did not break, neither did the one at the coffin where Dorothy fell.

Weird.

JER

Apr. 24, 2010, 03:59 PM

Just read this on Samantha Clark's twitter (http://twitter.com/samanthalclark):

The frangible pin at the hollow where Oli & 2 others fell did not break, neither did the one at the coffin where Dorothy fell.

Weird.

No, not weird.

The frangible pin is designed to break only when the rail/log is hit with a threshold force at a certain range of angles.

Specifically, the pin was designed to prevent a horse from crushing the rider in a slow rotational fall, as slow rotational falls were identified as the most dangerous type of accident. The pin breaks as the horse rotates up and over, changing the trajectory of the falling horse, causing it to drop down rather than continue rotating. The rider continues on the original trajectory.

A rail with a frangible pin does not release after every hit -- not if it's installed properly.

old_grey_mare

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:02 PM

That was a terrible fall. Probably a good thing for Cruise Master that it was on the double bank as he pretty much landed on his feet after rolling. He looks just fine. I thought I heard them say OT had the inflatable vest on---lets hope so. It looked very ominous immediately after fall. Will be interesting to hear injuries if that was the inflatable vest he was wearing.

Jingles for OT.

hb

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:03 PM

But Oliver's horse did land right on him in a rotational fall, so the pin didn't do it's job.

ddashaq

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:04 PM

I am hoping he is OK, too! I was at 17 when he went by, but I don't recall if he had the air vest on or not. There was no official word on his condition when I left the park, but I am very much hoping for the best.

RunForIt

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:09 PM

from first hand experience with injuries involving the spine and head...there will be a CAT scan and MRI, and physical exams ad nauseum, plus doctors - radiologist consults before info is released to the public. Blackwly can give you much more professional info than me, but having been through it, this part I do know...

Wishing only the best outcomes for Oliver Townend. :cool:

faybe

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:14 PM

But Oliver's horse did land right on him in a rotational fall, so the pin didn't do it's job.

Not necessarily, read JER's post about the force/angle needed to break the pin... the pin didn't break because the horse cleared the rail. The horse did fall BECAUSE of the rail, but not AT it; it was my understanding he fell down the first bank onto Townend. If it was a true rotation, his weight on top of the rail at the peak of rotating would have caused the pin to break; because he fell across the rail and down the bank, the weight and force was insufficient to drop the pin. My TOTAL speculation, as I was not there. But from the descriptions and video from the live feed, it would make sense that the pin would not break.

JER

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:16 PM

But Oliver's horse did land right on him in a rotational fall, so the pin didn't do it's job.

You could also say that Oliver's horse is at fault for not hitting the rail at the right angle and with the right force to cause the pin to release.

The frangible pin is not a panacea. It can only function as it's designed to function -- and that's when it's installed properly. (I assume it will be checked for both functionality and installation.)

As I understand it, OT fell off over the rail and tumbled down the landing of #20 to the landing of #21A. The horse did not land on him on the landing of #20, which would indicate they were on different trajectories at that point. However, when the horse fell down the bank/step at #21A, it landed on OT.

I did not see the incident so please correct me if I am wrong.

The laws of physics aren't always kind to us.

ohhthatgirl

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:21 PM

Makes sense, JER. Thank you for the clarifications. :)

annikak

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:21 PM

I can't see it right now, but it was rotational, and the horse landed HARD on OT. I am not sure if the rail breaking would have made a difference, and if the log was heavy, might have made it worse, a the log might have cause an issue if they had fallen. Again, not sure....

The horse was standing, and nickered as if to say "What the hell just
happened???"

Great, quick reaction on the part of the jump judge.

Jingles to everyone involved. Such a sad thing to end the day with.

sspeight

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:22 PM

Knowing UK, they have teams of nurses and doctors as well as medical and nursing students at the hospital and at the horse park so they are all hands on deck to handle whatever may happen at Rolex. I don't think anyone is more prepared to deal with what injuries could be sustained. Knowing some of the employees there, I'd trust them with my life.

Praying for Oliver that the vest did its job- it is a good sign that he is conscious at the hospital. I'm glad that his horse appears to be ok.

LLDM

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:29 PM

)

As I understand it, OT fell off over the rail and tumbled down the landing of #20 to the landing of #21A. The horse did not land on him on the landing of #20, which would indicate they were on different trajectories at that point. However, when the horse fell down the bank/step at #21A, it landed on OT.

I did not see the incident so please correct me if I am wrong.

The laws of physics aren't always kind to us.

Actually, I think Cruise did land on him at the landing of 20. Cruise kept on rolling over 21A and he landed on the step down. Oli was still up one I think. I happened so damn fast.

But there are some stills here on the H&H BB. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=364056&page=8

I would have hoped the frangible pins would have worked if these stills are any indication.

SCFarm

RacetrackReject

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:35 PM

Not to be a stickler, but Ollie was still connected with his horse when the horse landed on him (from what I saw), so the air vest would not have deployed. You have to be separated from your horse far enough to detach the cord from the saddle to make it inflate. I'm sure it inflated after the horse rolled off of him, but it would have done absolutely nothing until they parted ways.

I hope only the best for Ollie. I know that the announcers stated afterward that he was moving, but that's all I heard.

JER

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:38 PM

Actually, I think Cruise did land on him at the landing of 20. Cruise kept on rolling over 21A and he landed on the step down. Oli was still up one I think. I happened so damn fast.

But there are some stills here on the H&H BB. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=364056&page=8

It does look that way from the photos (thanks for that).

I was going off Eventing Nation's description of the fall, which said the horse landed on him at the landing between #21A and #21B.

Don't see how the air jacket could have inflated by the landing after #20.

Carol Ames

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:40 PM

I imagine we will see the fall again:eek: in ads for the vest:yes: he was wearing; that his chest was not crushed,:cry::eek: attests to its' effectiveness:yes:;):yes: it was that type of fall that killed the rider :sadsmile::(at theL:uehmuehlen WM 18. or so, years ago:no:

kookicat

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:46 PM

Little update on the news page here:

http://www.foxpitteventing.co.uk/news.html

'A sad foot note was team mate Ollie Townend took a heavy fall at fence 20 on Ashdale Cruise Master. He was knocked unconscious and was airlifted to Kentucky hospital. The good news is he has regained consciousness and is cursing and swearing so hopefully this means he is ok, much to the relief of us all here. Knowing Ollie he could well be back to ride ODT Master Rose in the show jumping tomorrow as he is lying well up there.'

Sounds like he may be okay.

hb

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:48 PM

It does look that way from the photos (thanks for that).

I was going off Eventing Nation's description of the fall, which said the horse landed on him at the landing between #21A and #21B.

Don't see how the air jacket could have inflated by the landing after #20.

The horse rolled over him (Oliver) and landed on his (the horse's) feet between 21a and b. Oliver landed directly after 20. It is at about the 4 minute mark on the video if you want to see it. It doesn't look like there was enough distance to inflate the air jacket until the horse rolled off the bank.

SevenDogs

Apr. 24, 2010, 04:57 PM

....and that is what is interesting about the air jackets. Just by vitue of him having it on, people are already assuming that is somehow helped him and are already singing its praises in this incident. Frankly, I hope it did. I hope it turns out to be the greatest thing since popcorn and helps him and other riders escape more serious injuries, but we still don't fully understand how it works.

An incident, like this MAY or MAY NOT have been, is one of the most concerning to me. There is a fall where the air vest does not inflate (because the rider does not have enough separation from the horse to detach the tether), the horse falls on the rider creating injuries and *then* the airbag deflates possibly exacerbating the injuries by compressing the body. I am not saying that is what happened -- and I hope it isn't, but this fall illustrates one of my biggest concerns about the vest and why I don't wear one yet.

Again, I wish the absolute best for Oliver. I hope the vest did help mitigate his fall and I hope it turns out that this is the greatest advance in safety gear that we have had in awhile. I just think it is scary that people continue to make automatic assumptions that because he was wearing one and it may have been inflated at SOME POINT in the incident, that it inflated at the appropriate time to mitigate injuries and was incapable of exacerbating them.

P.S. I always love to hear that a rider is cursing up a storm in the ER -- usually a great sign! :)

Oliver Townend, who entered the Rolex Kentucky Equestrian Championships needing a victory to complete the Grand Slam, was taken to the hospital Saturday after a hard fall from his horse in Lexington, Ky.
As Townend and Ashdale Cruise Master started to jump over a structure during the cross-country test, the horse's front legs nicked the wooden fence. The horse's head pitched down -- throwing Townend out of the saddle -- and it landed on the back of its neck. The rest of its body then landed on Townend before rolling over and standing up.
Townend was motionless on the ground.
There was a brief delay and riders already on the course were halted as rescuers attended to Townend. He was taken to a local hospital by helicopter. Kathy Meyer of the United States Equestrian Federation said Townend was conscious upon transport.
The Rolex Championships will conclude with Sunday's show jumping portion, to be broadcast live on Universal Sports TV and UniversalSports.com at 1 p.m. ET.

wabadou

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:10 PM

I have a question...Does the "1 fall and you're eliminated" rule not apply to riders that have multiple horses entered? Can you take a bad fall on one but then ride another?

If so, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the rule?

ohhthatgirl

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:12 PM

I imagine we will see the fall again:eek: in ads for the vest:yes: he was wearing; that his chest was not crushed,:cry::eek: attests to its' effectiveness:yes:;):yes: it was that type of fall that killed the rider :sadsmile::(at theL:uehmuehlen WM 18. or so, years ago:no:

No kidding. I took some screenshots of the fall... one of them is on where the horse is directly on top of him. He looks like a pancake. If anyone wants to see them I can send them over (PM), but they're very disturbing.

SevenDogs

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:13 PM

I have a question...Does the "1 fall and you're eliminated" rule not apply to riders that have multiple horses entered? Can you take a bad fall on one but then ride another?

If so, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the rule?

Yes to all three of your questions. Not a fan of this rule and would like to see it repealed.

SevenDogs

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:14 PM

No kidding. I took some screenshots of the fall... one of them is on where the horse is directly on top of him. He looks like a pancake. If anyone wants to see them I can send them over (PM), but they're very disturbing.

Does it show the vest inflated when the horse is on top of him?

Carol Ames

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:15 PM

Remember that, even if he "could/ would" , he is now Elinimiated :(, which. seems to me to be a good reason for that rule; it protects the more competitive of us, from ourselves:eek:

By John (http://eventingnation.com/mt3/mt-cp.cgi?__mode=view&blog_id=1&id=1) on April 24, 2010 4:00 PM, Filed Under Rolex Kentucky 2010 (http://eventingnation.com/home/competition-coverage/rolex-2010/)

Eventing Nation has confirmed that Oliver is conscious and not seriously injured and that he might be released from the hospital sometime soon.

More information later as we get it.

Hoping this is true!

SCFarm

ohhthatgirl

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:19 PM

Does it show the vest inflated when the horse is on top of him?

My feed was a low resolution, so hard to tell, but it doesn't look like it has inflation.

SevenDogs

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:27 PM

Thanks, Ohthatgirl. :)

Also hoping that the good news posted about is condition is accurate!

Carol Ames

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:28 PM

Is being declared "fit to ride" required after all falls or, only:no: when there is a TBI?:confused: At least one report said that he was unconscious:eek:; does that qualify as a TBI:confused:?

SevenDogs

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:29 PM

Remember that, even if he "could/ would" , he is now Elinimiated :(, which. seems to me to be a good reason for that rule; it protects the more competitive of us, from ourselves:eek:

It does not protect Oliver Townsend from himself if he decides to ride his second mount tomorrow... and I'm not saying that is should, if he is not seriously injured, just like I don't think it is a great rule for the many, many riders that get popped out of the tack and land on their feet.

Not a fan of this rule for a number of reasons, but we have many other threads where we all debated this.

riderboy

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:35 PM

The news about Oli seems good and his horse is OK-Huge sigh of relief. I was at the fence before the Hollow and he just looked fabulous. I didn't realize that was a frangible fence/ They had a styrofoam log at 16, the second jump into the Head of the Lake. The Hollow may have been a good plce to try that instead. Nothng like an armchair course designer!

RAyers

Apr. 24, 2010, 05:37 PM

I imagine we will see the fall again:eek: in ads for the vest:yes: he was wearing; that his chest was not crushed,:cry::eek: attests to its' effectiveness:yes:;):yes: it was that type of fall that killed the rider :sadsmile::(at theL:uehmuehlen WM 18. or so, years ago:no:

Just for clarification, even the air vest makers state these vests will NOT protect against crushing.

A simple experiment: take a think ballon and inflate it. Place it on a table. Now, I bet you can push with your finger all the way through and touch table as hard as you can without without breaking the balloon. In other words the force goes straight into the table, "crushing" the area underneath.

This video shows what I mean. http://www.break.com/index/slow-mo-water-balloon-not-breaking.html Any force applied goes straight through to the underlying surface and the balloon does not break. There is no difference if it is a water ballon or air balloon.

Oliver Townend is up and walking around at the hospital. His initial prognosis appeared to be good, although he may remain in the hospital tonight after his fall on cross-country off of Ashdale Cruise Master (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/../article/oliver-townend-transported-hospital-after-fall-rolex-kentucky) at the Rolex Kentucky CCI****.

YEAH! (Bolding is mine)

SCFarm

annikak

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:12 PM

such fantastic news! sigh of relief....

OverandOnward

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:16 PM

USEA update

Oliver Townend is up and walking around at the hospital. The UK Trauma center is continuing to examine him, but Townend seems to be in the clear.

Kristi Nunnick had a fall at the same fence and also got a trip to UK ER

She was transported to the University of Kentucky Trauma and Emergency Services-Emergency Department, evaluated and has been discharged.

What's the story on two trips to ER from one obstacle?

CoolMeadows

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:18 PM

Lucky, lucky guy! Poor horse was just pitiful, whinnying after flipping and then rolling down the step. Can't believe Oliver T's up and swearing, he must be living right or something.

OverandOnward

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:20 PM

Was the route up or down the bank? Was Townend on his way up, didn't get over at the top, horse fell back down the banks? Slid off the top bank and then fell ... or fell at the top surface and kept going down?

What happened with Kristi, same or ... ?

So very glad it appears riders and horses will be ok.

Would offer to bet Townend rides tomorrow, but not expecting anyone would take the other side. ;) :D

SkipChange

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:24 PM

I think they were going down the bank. Horse caught a leg over the log. You can see in pictures posted by ohthatgirl

ohhthatgirl

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:25 PM

The route was heading down the slope. Rails, bounce, drop, bounce, drop. He hung a leg over the rails and flipped. OT landed on the landing side of rails while his horse somersaulted on top of him and landed on the platform between the 21A & 21B flags.

CoolMeadows

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:29 PM

You can watch the replay here. (http://www.universalsports.com/video/assetid=5f64466c-95f1-40d8-b2bb-48f718b3710f.html#april+et+rolex+kentucky+equestri an+championship+cross+country)

It's around 4:43

DLee

Apr. 24, 2010, 06:57 PM

From his Facebook page, he has been discharged from the hospital! :)

retreadeventer

Apr. 24, 2010, 07:16 PM

I heard he is going to try and ride tomorrow on the other horse. I thought he'd make the party tonight! Our prayers were answered. I hope he knows we were pulling for him!

ddashaq

Apr. 24, 2010, 07:36 PM

Awesome update!:)

WishIWereRiding

Apr. 24, 2010, 08:03 PM

You can watch the replay here. (http://www.universalsports.com/video/assetid=5f64466c-95f1-40d8-b2bb-48f718b3710f.html#april+et+rolex+kentucky+equestri an+championship+cross+country)

It's around 4:43

Can people who didn't pay also use this link? I thought you had to pay to see the XC footage!

archieflies

Apr. 24, 2010, 08:05 PM

Wow, considerig the horse's butt was squarely on top of his head, I'm surprised people aren't singing the praises of his helmet instead of his vest!

This has got to be the most eventful week of that man's life. Trains, cabs, planes, and helicopters! London, Paris, Madrid, Miami and the UK hospital. I'd be thinking it was time to get a desk job if that was me! Or at least wishing I had just gone on to Disneyworld with the Spanish tourists... If the man rides tomorrow and wins the Grand Slam, I smell a movie deal.

kookicat

Apr. 24, 2010, 08:07 PM

I was just thinking that I'd love to see his hat. Hope he sends it back to the company so they can use it for research.

faybe

Apr. 24, 2010, 08:07 PM

WishIWereRiding, I just clicked on the link and could watch the whole thing (all 5+ hours!) and I didn't pay.

So glad to hear he is ok!

quietann

Apr. 24, 2010, 08:09 PM

Owwwww. That looked very painful. Glad to hear the horse is OK, and Oli headed that way.

CoolMeadows

Apr. 24, 2010, 08:10 PM

WishIWereRiding, I just clicked on the link and could watch the whole thing (all 5+ hours!) and I didn't pay.

So glad to hear he is ok!

Yep, the replay's free. :)
Would be a heck of a story if he wins! Hopefully in a brand spankin new helmet of course.

fordtraktor

Apr. 24, 2010, 09:17 PM

Oh. My. God. Horrific fall. I can't believe he is walking away from that one without major injury. His guardian angel was watching out for him.

It does go to show that it can happen to anyone, at any time. That horse looked totally prepared, OT was not gunning it or otherwise riding in any way dangerously. Thank God it wasn't a different outcome.

It does go to show that it can happen to anyone, at any time. That horse looked totally prepared, OT was not gunning it or otherwise riding in any way dangerously. Thank God it wasn't a different outcome.

Exactly what I just told my fiance. And why I'm not doing upper level eventing currently.

riderboy

Apr. 24, 2010, 10:13 PM

Exactly what I just told my fiance. And why I'm not doing upper level eventing currently.

Yeah, me too! That and the fact that I don't have the time, talent, money, or horse!

CoolMeadows

Apr. 24, 2010, 10:18 PM

What happened to the frangible pin? I've heard people say the horse didn't hit it quite right for the pins to break. It looked like a rotational fall, so what went wrong with the jump?

archieflies

Apr. 24, 2010, 10:40 PM

Looking at picture #17 on the link that was posted, it appears that he just dind't hit at the right angle or with enough force to snap the pin. I think he hit it too late in the jump. It would be impossible to make a pin that would prevent every rotational.

RAyers

Apr. 24, 2010, 10:41 PM

What happened to the frangible pin? I've heard people say the horse didn't hit it quite right for the pins to break. It looked like a rotational fall, so what went wrong with the jump?

Just because the horse had a rotation does not mean it hit the fence in the manner which will shear the pins. If the horse hit primarily in the line of motion, it will "lock" the log and prevent the forces from pushing down on the pin to shear it.

Frangible pins are used in any number of industries (e.g from spinal surgeries to machine shops) and it is well known that their likelihood of shear is a probability, not an absolute.

Most likely NOTHING went wrong except the horse did not read the manual that tells it how to hit and rotate to shear the pin.

Reed

CoolMeadows

Apr. 24, 2010, 10:46 PM

Just because the horse had a rotation does not mean it hit the fence in the manner which will shear the pins. If the horse hit primarily in the line of motion, it will "lock" the log and prevent the forces from pushing down on the pin to shear it.

Frangible pins are used in any number of industries (e.g from spinal surgeries to machine shops) and it is well known that their likelihood of shear is a probability, not an absolute.

Most likely NOTHING went wrong except the horse did not read the manual that tells it how to hit and rotate to shear the pin.

Reed

Slackers, those horses with their homework. I wonder if the styrofoam might've been a better option at that jump since there were a couple of incidents.

Sebastian

Apr. 24, 2010, 11:00 PM

Wow, considerig the horse's butt was squarely on top of his head, I'm surprised people aren't singing the praises of his helmet instead of his vest!

Exactly my thought after looking at the photos. (Thanks ohhthatgirl!!!) Helmet saved his life.

Thank goodness we got a happy ending on this one.
Seb :)

eventer4eva

Apr. 24, 2010, 11:35 PM

definitely looks like vest inflated seconds (or milliseconds) after he hit the ground... he was still basically attached to the horse which (as someone pointed out earlier) would mean that the vest wouldn't have inflated... you can see in the pics that it did inflate eventually, but just not right away.

anyway, I think he should build a shrine to that helmet because it clearly saved his noggin from being squished due to having an entire horse roll across it.

I am so glad he's ok!!!!

Equibrit

Apr. 25, 2010, 12:14 AM

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/297306.html

"Latest update at 21:53, Saturday 24 April Oliver is up and walking around at the hospital. According to doctors, he has suffered a head injury, the extent of which is being evaluated. At the current time, Oliver is planning to ride tomorrow."

JER

Apr. 25, 2010, 12:20 AM

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/297306.html

"According to doctors, he has suffered a head injury, the extent of which is being evaluated. At the current time, Oliver is planning to ride tomorrow."

So a person with a head injury is planning to ride tomorrow.

I wonder what else he's planning on doing. People with head injuries often have very interesting plans.

(Somebody stop him, please.)

NeverTime

Apr. 25, 2010, 12:21 AM

According to the latest CoTH release:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/townend-out-hospital

J-Lu

Apr. 25, 2010, 12:25 AM

Wow. I'm amazed that both horse and rider are OK after such a terrible fall. Amazing.

OverandOnward

Apr. 25, 2010, 01:42 AM

The horse he still has in the running is less than 8 points from the leader. Whatever is the right thing to do, I think it would be hard to keep any independent adult from going for $350,000.

Meredith Clark

Apr. 25, 2010, 01:51 AM

The horse he still has in the running is less than 8 points from the leader. Whatever is the right thing to do, I think it would be hard to keep any independent adult from going for $350,000.

I don't know.. he'd have to go Tonya Harding on some horses if he's going to finish 1st.

I suggest taking a muscle relaxer and sleeping in tomorrow!

LexInVA

Apr. 25, 2010, 02:08 AM

Maybe he and Philip are boozing it up in the Hotel bar going over the day's events. What can ya do?

DLee

Apr. 25, 2010, 08:44 AM

Here's the latest from his Facebook page:

Unfortunately due to several minor injuries, Oliver was not discharged from hospital. He has not sustained any head injuries but will remain in hospital for observation of his minor fractures. He will therefore not be able to complete the Rolex Kentucky three day event.

*JumpIt*

Apr. 25, 2010, 09:01 AM

If you watch all of the three falls on that jump you can see that they all hit it exactly the same. They each only caught their left leg and most did not put much downward preassure on the jump. It makes sense that in these cases the pins wouldn't drop, at least that all three of these didn't because they all hit the fence the same way. I would be more worried if three different riders hit the fence in three different ways and the pin didn't work.

Slackers, those horses with their homework. I wonder if the styrofoam might've been a better option at that jump since there were a couple of incidents.

Maybe but the one instance it was put to use on this course (with Geoff) the horse was refusing, while it did work there because it gave to the horse's preasure instead of sending the horse head over heals. I don't think it would have made that big of a difference at the hollow. The horses don't get stuck at the jump until after all four feet have left the ground. Those horse's LF legs would have still not been able to have been able to have gotten beneath them. Even if it allowed they to get their legs under them it is unlikely they would be ready for the drop, probably they would have still fallen down the drops. However it may have prevent the horse from falling on top of Oli.

retreadeventer

Apr. 25, 2010, 09:19 AM

Reed, the horses left a leg and hit the log going forward so you're saying the frangible pins don't work with that kind of force. Why not. That would be the logical way for a horse to hit that fence given that question. (Talking about the hollow). I don't get why the fence wasn't set to GIVE WAY with that sort of full body, left-a-leg force. The whole horse's body rotates around over the leg since the leg doesn't "come off", it's attached to the horse, and by virtue of momentum I guess, the body rotates around the "stuck" leg. On a fence like this, the rotation was obvious, the top left (left foreleg) of the fence becomes the rotation point, the horse's body swings in an arc, up, and over to the left around the planted left foreleg. My feeling is there is no reason the fence should dislodge with ONLY a top-down sort of hit. It has to give way with the fulcrum point hit, front left, or front right (depending upon which leg the horse leaves behind.) ON this kind of fence.
To have it only release on a top down hit doesn't seem to cover all scenarios, or all perceived scenarios.
I've seen the technology up close and personal and seen it in action at an FEI event where a horse misjudged and landed into the log absolutely hitting it front side not top side and it LET GO and collapsed under the horse making everyone safe, although both fell of course.

RiverBendPol

Apr. 25, 2010, 09:22 AM

Maybe the jump just wasn't high enough...:eek: The horses needed to actually chest the rail to make it come down! (kidding here.)

I'm thinking if those pins had given way, it might have served as a launching pad and sent them head over tea kettle down the whole combination.

faybe

Apr. 25, 2010, 09:39 AM

To have it only release on a top down hit doesn't seem to cover all scenarios, or all perceived scenarios.

Which is why the pins aren't a cure-all! They were designed to lower the risk of a rotational fall in certain scenarios; the manufacturers do not claim to eliminate that risk, nor should they. The only way to eliminate it for certain is to stick to dressage. :(

That being said, EN is reporting that there will be a full investigation into the pins at both the hollow and the coffin. Watching the video, I guess I could see how it may not have dropped at the hollow (especially if the first horse to flip jammed the log so it wouldn't break the pins- could that happen? and was it checked before the next horse jumped in?) but it looks like the pins should have broken with the type of fall Crowell had at the coffin. I'm not the expert though, and look forward to RAyers thoughts as well.

I think JER said it best in an earlier post- sometimes the laws of physics aren't kind to us.

In other news, looks like OT spent the night at the hospital and won't be back today. At least he did not suffer a head injury! Bones knit better than grey matter, thank goodness!

http://www.eventingnation.com/home/

rabicon

Apr. 25, 2010, 10:47 AM

I was watching last night late and I can't remember which jump but he almost had the same problem on his other mount that day. Left front leg grabbed (even my 9 year old saw it and went ahhhhh) but the horse was able to save itself and get the leg out. He is a lucky man indeed. Hope he is out soon and back to his routine.

wabadou

Apr. 25, 2010, 10:55 AM

I have a dumb question,

With the 2 solid upright supports holding the log, on the FAR SIDE of the log, even if the pin had given way, where is the log going to go with the supports keeping it from going forward?

PonyGal08

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:05 AM

EN is saying that he didn't have a head injury... I mean I'm not a doctor but if he did in fact have a head injury, I would think that UK wouldn't have discharged him. The British Team was told that he was discharged but then they found out about "fractures," which EN reported as "cracked ribs and a cracked collarbone."

Also the replay link to NBC didn't work for me, but EN posted the youtube link to the fall. The video I posted is at a different angle and better clarity. After watching, first of all a big huge woohoo for helmets!!! Secondly, I agree with the above poster that said he didn't separate far enough from the horse to activate the air vest until he was already on the ground. That said I think by the time ACM's rear end fell on him, it had inflated. Now that leads me to questions on when did OT's injuries occur? If it was his contact with the ground: What impact did the vest's inflation have? If it was when ACM fell on him: Was the vest able to lessen the seriousness of the injuries? It would be interesting to hear from the drs who treated OT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxWZ2uKLQb4&feature=player_embedded#!

OverandOnward

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:34 AM

Was the design of the whole problem a bad idea? Not as a jumping problem. As a risk for the sport, in the context of the sport today.

Just after the fall - knowing nothing about the Oliver's condition - I had the thought "if Townend dies this is it for eventing. With the dramatic negatives of the recent past, the publicity is going to kill the sport as we know it." So he and the horse walk away - sort of - and eventing escapes another tragic debacle. But contributes another heart-stopping video clip to the public sphere.

If the design is a bad idea, will the 4*'s of the world have to keep putting it up to (a) trial and error until they finally make it through an event without falls and (b) justify using it to begin with?

The thing about that jump problem ... if there is a fall, it must be expected that horse &/or rider may keep falling and falling until they hit bottom. Gravity rules. Bad risks - and bad pictures for the world to gasp over, for sensationalists to make more anti-eventing videos. Hate to be this cold about it, but it's only partly about the possibility of injury or even death. It's also about the pictures, it's about attracting outside pressure and even interference.

Given the full context of the sport today ... is this design worth it?

annikak

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:38 AM

Hmmm...could it have been the camera that is to the right of the jump that caused the horses to pause a bit?

It seems strange- all of the horses on the video literally seem to have a pause moment, on a jump that most of them have seen something very close to before. What did they see that cause them to pause? Alll seem to have had nice ride up until then....

TOTAL speculation....

RAyers

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:45 AM

...Secondly, I agree with the above poster that said he didn't separate far enough from the horse to activate the air vest until he was already on the ground. That said I think by the time ACM's rear end fell on him, it had inflated. Now that leads me to questions on when did OT's injuries occur? If it was his contact with the ground: What impact did the vest's inflation have? If it was when ACM fell on him: Was the vest able to lessen the seriousness of the injuries?

You don't need to talk to the doctors. The ribs and collar bone would be consistent with a crushing blow that the vest can NOT prevent. This is especially evident in the images of how the horse finally came off OT. Air vests are flexible structures that will allow the body to deform. Only a rigid structure would have a chance to prevent those injuries.

Reed

Badger

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:46 AM

From this pic on the BBC site, it is clear that the vest did not deploy until after the impact. He is so lucky not to have a broken neck!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/equestrian/8642388.stm

*JumpIt*

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:47 AM

All of these riders wearing the blowup vests are wearing normal vest too, right?

From this pic on the BBC site, it is clear that the vest did not deploy until after the impact. He is so lucky not to have a broken neck!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/othe...an/8642388.stm

I can't tell, is his head off of the edge of the jump? Man, while this is a very scary picture if it were my fall and I survived I would want it up on my living room wall.

I also suppose if you were going to be squished by any part of the body the hind quarters would be best. At least better than some boney part or a hoof. Else I'd think he would have a broken nose/face.

RunForIt

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:49 AM

From this pic on the BBC site, it is clear that the vest did not deploy until after the impact. He is so lucky not to have a broken neck!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/equestrian/8642388.stm

I'll say! I watched as it happened...am relieved his horse is ok and that OT will be fine. Want to also make sure EVENTING is fine....

BaroquePony

Apr. 25, 2010, 01:00 PM

Man, while this is a very scary picture if it were my fall and I survived I would want it up on my living room wall.

I'm so glad I saw the video AFTER I read that Oli and ACM were fine, relatively speaking. It doesn't make it any less heart-stopping to watch, but I think if I'd seen it live/in person I would have thought he was dead and started FREAKING OUT. Haha!
I'm also interested in how this inflatable vest thing works - does it have a base similar to a regular body protector? Or do they wear one underneath? Or is not protective at all until it inflates?

retreadeventer

Apr. 25, 2010, 01:45 PM

Re vest: in that picture, it's clearly inflated to me, and you can see the support under his neck as the white string of the pinney is stretched out near his ear. It saved his life. I've seen other pictures and video, and the vest did inflate from what I can see. They begin to deflate pretty quickly after deploying and would start to flatten as soon as 30 seconds after. I would like to get the definitive word on that from someone who was at the scene and knows for a fact if it did or did not but I think it did.

FalseImpression

Apr. 25, 2010, 01:52 PM

Quote from OT in that BBC article:

"I have to be grateful for my inflatable air bag jacket and riding hat. They both saved me from suffering more serious injuries."

retreadeventer

Apr. 25, 2010, 01:53 PM

Hmmm...could it have been the camera that is to the right of the jump that caused the horses to pause a bit?

It seems strange- all of the horses on the video literally seem to have a pause moment, on a jump that most of them have seen something very close to before. What did they see that cause them to pause? Alll seem to have had nice ride up until then....

TOTAL speculation....

Annikak, someone who walked the course told me they thought the horses couldn't see the downbanks until they crested that first jump.
My theory is we teach these horses the cross country cleverness and upper level horses have learned it very well and usually have a good instinct about what to do with their legs at the questions. When they see down bank, they register, legs and feet down. Maybe that is why in the moment of jumping the first jump they hung legs, because they were thinking, legs down, down bank coming, and unfortunately where TOO early with releasing the landing gear.
Just my horse training experience and thinking. I have not ridden at this level. But I've ridden a lot of green horses XC, and they make a lot of stuff up as they go!

SuZQuzie

Apr. 25, 2010, 02:09 PM

I fairly disappointed that OT seems to have never been in the competition according to the commentators for today's SJ. To go from the talk of the town to "Oli who?" is rough...

Meredith Clark

Apr. 25, 2010, 02:18 PM

Random thought.. why didn't the exo cage (sp?) vests catch on like the air jackets? They seemed like a really good idea to me!

Glad he's ok and glad I wasn't there to see it! I saw some nasty falls the year I went to Rolex :no:

One Star

Apr. 25, 2010, 02:51 PM

Just saw Ollie on the live feed -- he's up and about and watching show jumping from the VIP section, talking on the cell phone. Good to see him well and relatively sound!

kookicat

Apr. 25, 2010, 03:24 PM

I think there was something there that putting the horses off- it seems very strange for three of them to have almost identical falls.

Also, just saw the youtube clip, and I want to say how awesome the staff were- super quick response, very efficient. We need more like that!

JER

Apr. 25, 2010, 05:37 PM

Re vest: ... It saved his life.

Rubbish.

OT was wearing a conventional body protector as well as a certified safety helmet. How is it you can make the claim the air vest ''saved his life'?

Wishful thinking, perhaps?

(When TRL/Liverpool did studies on rotational falls, they found that 29% of rotational falls result in serious injury or death. Looks like our rotational fallers yesterday were all voting with the majority. This is good but also somewhat lucky. :))

bounce

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:09 PM

Rubbish.

OT was wearing a conventional body protector as well as a certified safety helmet. How is it you can make the claim the air vest ''saved his life'?

Wishful thinking, perhaps?

(When TRL/Liverpool did studies on rotational falls, they found that 29% of rotational falls result in serious injury or death. Looks like our rotational fallers yesterday were all voting with the majority. This is good but also somewhat lucky. :))

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/equestrian/8642388.stm

Last sentence- quote from OT says directly that he was wearing inflatables and that they saved his life...

benny13

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:22 PM

If you look at the photos, his head is off the edge of the bank with the force of the horse's body on it. The vest has a large neck support that prevented his neck from hyperextending and probably breaking. I know this because I have fallen while wearing one, and felt the support it gives.

I bought one of these vests and I will not ride cross country without it again. I don't care if you don't like the politics, advertising, or research behind them, they have clearly prevented injuries and I think they are a great invention. The pro riders in our sport know what they are doing much better than many of us; I trust their judgement in equipment.

Meredith Clark

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:26 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/equestrian/8642388.stm

Last sentence- quote from OT says directly that he was wearing inflatables and that they saved his life...

I have no knowledge on wearing the vests or riding a 4star course, but seeing as how they sponsor him (http://www.olivertownend.com/sponsors) wouldn't it be rather counter productive for his business if he said it did nothing?

And do you really think as the horse was sitting on his face he was thinking "I better check to make sure my vest has inflated so I can tell everyone whether it did or didn't"

I hope it did inflate and save him but I'd rather have science and proven tests to know how they work.

bounce

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:30 PM

I have no knowledge on wearing the vests or riding a 4star course, but seeing as how they sponsor him (http://www.olivertownend.com/sponsors) wouldn't it be rather counter productive for his business if he said it did nothing?

And do you really think as the horse was sitting on his face he was thinking "I better check to make sure my vest has inflated so I can tell everyone whether it did or didn't"

I hope it did inflate and save him but I'd rather have science and proven tests to know how they work.

All I was saying is that HE was the one that said it... JER said he was wearing a conventional vest and helmet....

bounce

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:32 PM

All I was saying is that HE was the one that said it... JER said he was wearing a conventional vest and helmet....
Re vest: ... It saved his life.

"Rubbish.

OT was wearing a conventional body protector as well as a certified safety helmet. How is it you can make the claim the air vest ''saved his life'?"

deltawave

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:42 PM

Last sentence- quote from OT says directly that he was wearing inflatables and that they saved his life...

Although I'm certain the vest helped (and am seriously looking at them now) I don't think anyone can say with certainty (even the rider) that the vest saved his life. My mom swears her St. Christopher medal saved her life in a car accident. :)

It would be so very, very nice to have data instead of testimonials . . .

I wonder why there wasn't a styrofoam log at this fence?! Seems like that would have gone a long way towards helping the horse possibly get that fifth leg deployed.

RAyers

Apr. 25, 2010, 07:59 PM

If we use the logic of listening to folks say these vets saved their lives, then I can claim my Carhartt Arctic Parka saved my life this winter when I got planted by a youngster (I walked away with no injuries) or my Hanes t-shirtsaved me both times when I had horses rear over and land on top of me. I walked away from both of those with just a head ache. This was back in the late 70s and early 80s before helmets actually protective functions.

Looking at the video and stills I have seen, the vest was perhaps only partially inflated (like in Faith Cook's accident). Even fully inflated, these vests CANNOT protect against the CRUSHING blow of the horse landing on the rider. Even the makers acknowledge this fact.

What surprises me is benny13 claiming that the vest becomes rigid when inflated. That is contradictory in inflatable structures. If they are rigid enough to prevent flexure, they can't inflate. Even Air Casts have a rigid plastic shell to prevent flexure.

Reed

Kitters

Apr. 25, 2010, 08:45 PM

That was a truly incredible fall. It was heart-stopping to watch the footage, and I'm so glad that he and the horse are okay. Unbelievable!