So many people on this board have no clue about how good college players are. Let me try to explain using my own example.

I am a computer rated 4.0 male and exclusively play doubles in USTA 4.0 league. For past 3 seasons I have a consistent 80% winning record. I also play in a corporate/social league where I regularly play with and against 5.0+ men and women.

Now here is the reality for you guys. I hate to admit it, but I cannot even give a decent warm up to 5.0+ players. These former college players hit extremely heavy ball. Even when they are hitting very slow they put a lot of spin on the ball which most 4.0 level players cannot handle very well.

In my experience average 5.0 is twice as good as average 4.0, and average 5.5 is 4 times as good.

Drgchen I am not sure I know who you are talking about but there are a couple 5.0s in the North Eastern Ohio area who are really 5.5s or even higher. I for one cannot understand how someone who achieved an ATP ranking in the 300s can play 5.0 before they are 40. So I suppose I rescind my statement, no 5.0 who is actually playing at level can beat these girls. Is that better?

Quote: She credits her personal coach, Rich Mostardi, the director of tennis at North Ridge Racquet Club in North Ridgeville, for a marked improvement in her game. Despite the 35-mile trip between her Gates Mills home and the club, Davis said working with Mostardi has been a revelation.
"He has got me to where I am," Davis said of Mostardi, who began working with her about nine months ago. "I knew that I had room for improvement, and by listening to Rich I knew I would improve. I respect him and I listen."

Mostardi- respected coach in NE Ohio, previous tour player 90s, NTRP computer rating 5.0.
Many previous four year Div 1 men are rated in the USTA computer 5.0. He is probably over 40 so that sounds about right.

In my assessment he is a weak 4.0. There are very few videos of high level women playing recreational men because the women know that it makes them look bad. As I have said in the past, a black belt isn't a black belt. A 10 year old 60 lb boy who is a Karate black belt would get destroyed by a 220 lb man who is a white belt.

Not sure if any 4.0 who is relegated only to doubles play can get more than 3 points a game off a Div1 female who's under 600 on the WTA tour.
Heck, he would barely get ONE game off his top singles team player, probably NONE. And obviously, he could not beat any of singles guys, in singles.

Quote: She credits her personal coach, Rich Mostardi, the director of tennis at North Ridge Racquet Club in North Ridgeville, for a marked improvement in her game. Despite the 35-mile trip between her Gates Mills home and the club, Davis said working with Mostardi has been a revelation.
"He has got me to where I am," Davis said of Mostardi, who began working with her about nine months ago. "I knew that I had room for improvement, and by listening to Rich I knew I would improve. I respect him and I listen."

Mostardi- respected coach in NE Ohio, previous tour player 90s, NTRP computer rating 5.0.
Many previous four year Div 1 men are rated in the USTA computer 5.0. He is probably over 40 so that sounds about right.

In my assessment he is a weak 4.0. There are very few videos of high level women playing recreational men because the women know that it makes them look bad. As I have said in the past, a black belt isn't a black belt. A 10 year old 60 lb boy who is a Karate black belt would get destroyed by a 220 lb man who is a white belt.

Basically he IS a 4.0. This is what USTA has him as right? That is what he and the video says that he is rated. Strong, weak, middle, 4.0=4.0. Do you think that the same guy would be winning points and staying in rallies with a 6.5 man? Is that video one of a guy getting 'demolished', a guy who isn't even getting his racquet on the ball?

I said MY assessment. Not your assessment. Therefore YOU are wrong. This guy is a weak 4.0 in Michigan, IN MY OPINION. We are splitting hairs. You have 2.5 NTRP difference between the people and the guy gets some games and he wins many points, staying in rallies. A 6.5 man vs a 4.0 man would look like a 4.0 playing a 5 year old.

Look, these young women are extremely talented. They work as hard as the men who are training for college and the pro circuit. NTRP men does not equal NTRP women. Physical limitations in strength and speed affect the outcomes of tennis. That is why we have leagues and women compete separately from men. Just as how children compete separately from adults and seniors are in different divisions than young adults. Even colleges separate themselves into different divisions. This is the same reason why my parents never expected me to play basketball- if you are a average man in size and weight, you just can't compete with college or pro NBA players, regardless of talent. There are two men in the NBA who are 5'9 or shorter- that means maybe 1 in a billion.

So a 110-120 pound woman trying to outhit or outserve a 180 lb man is just a huge mountain to climb. Serena has the muscle strength to outhit many men, but then with her weight, is her movement comparable? She was shown up by a no-name challenger man when she boasted about how she could compete on the men's tour.

Basically he IS a 4.0. This is what USTA has him as right? That is what he and the video says that he is rated. Strong, weak, middle, 4.0=4.0. Do you think that the same guy would be winning points and staying in rallies with a 6.5 man? Is that video one of a guy getting 'demolished', a guy who isn't even getting his racquet on the ball?

I said MY assessment. Not your assessment. Therefore YOU are wrong. This guy is a weak 4.0 in Michigan, IN MY OPINION. We are splitting hairs. You have 2.5 NTRP difference between the people and the guy gets some games and he wins many points, staying in rallies. A 6.5 man vs a 4.0 man would look like a 4.0 playing a 5 year old.

Dude has dominated 4.0 and is getting bumped.
If he's a weak 4.0 in Michigan, you guys should really start sending teams to nationals. Start a 10yr dynasty that could only be broken by the mythical So Cal 4.0s.

Basically he IS a 4.0. This is what USTA has him as right? That is what he and the video says that he is rated. Strong, weak, middle, 4.0=4.0......

This guy is a weak 4.0 in Michigan, IN MY OPINION. .

Wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumo

Dude has dominated 4.0 and is getting bumped.
If he's a weak 4.0 in Michigan, you guys should really start sending teams to nationals. Start a 10yr dynasty that could only be broken by the mythical So Cal 4.0s.

Karsten Braasch def Williams sisters (both on one day). Are you crazy- they wouldn't allow video cameras to show this!
6-1, 6-2.

Anyhow, I don't think anyone was saying that a man rated 4.0 could beat a woman rated 6.5. There were plenty of uneducated people on here saying that a 5.0 or 5.5 man couldn't get a game off a woman on tour. 4.0 man should get dominated- it is 2.5 NTRP difference.

What I said is still the most accurate of what any post says. I originally said that a 4.5 man can get some games. A 5.0 man could hit competitively. 5.5 man is a solid player. The video show a 4.0 man getting 2 games and getting dominated.

With regard to Sunday punch comments- There are plenty of players who are excellent tennis players who don't compete USTA or play USTA league. Plenty of former ranked Division 1 players who get out on the courts once a week or once every other week who are still playing at the high levels, probably 5.0, who don't need to prove themselves anymore. Most USTA people are older guys who picked up tennis later in life who didn't make the tennis team on college, so want to have trophies to show their co-workers. I hit with a pro on Saturdays- he was a four year NCAA division 1 player, ranked 120 or so nationally. 5.0-5.5 level, no success at futures or challengers. Why play USTA 5.0 league when you have a full time job as a coach at a private club or college and have spent the last 4 or more years playing competitively in college? Or when this guy is 40 after he has gained weight or had a family, you think he will play 4.0 to get a trophy at nationals?

BTW one of my high school friends is one of these mythical california USTA players. In his 40s, has played 5.0, 5.5, and open if you check USTA, and there is video of him on youtube winning (not a pretty win, kinda a pusher) a tiebreaker against an ATP tour player Rivera. Check it out- Brian Su.

If your mythical high level woman player 5.5-6.5 can tear through all the guys, why hasn't she played any of these money tournaments and taken the money away from old guys like this 40 something year old player. Why not spend the evening getting paid, getting playing experience, and teaching all the 4.0-5.0 men a lesson?

Dude has dominated 4.0 and is getting bumped.
If he's a weak 4.0 in Michigan, you guys should really start sending teams to nationals. Start a 10yr dynasty that could only be broken by the mythical So Cal 4.0s.

Why would I play 4.0 nationals? I have a demanding job. I hit competitively a few times a year and lose badly to open level players. Rather hit on the wall then be picking up the ball every few shots if I play 4.0 men. My previous hitting partners in Michigan included a Wayne state player, a U of Michigan player, and a former Canadian top 10 player. I've played some local unsanctioned tournaments that included NCAA women's players. When I played against division 1 women the end result usually was them resorting to lobs and moonballs, and me running to do an overhead. Last one I played was a 3.5 and myself against a doubles team from U of M- wore their uniforms to it for intimidation. We won, but I felt that it was a big waste of time. My other hitting partners were local tennis pros, and a guy who trained daily with Aaron Krickstein when he was a junior. I don't have the fitness or regular training to play against 5.0 or open players and win, so I could self rate at 4.0 if I wanted. I don't play anything USTA sanctioned- at the 4.0 level and below, people's form is so horrible I end up having to give everyone pointers...at 5.0 and above there are many former college guys who play like their life depended on them winning. To me unlike to many of you, tennis is a game, I don't play ATP and I never will, so it is a game that I enjoy. Why take away the enjoyment. Older guys like myself have taken to teaching the next generation of tennis players the lessons that we have learned.

BTW I'm pretty sure I've seen Mcphillips play in person when I was working on my serve on the next court. I was very impressed, consistency was excellent, pace was good, difference was that her serve was nothing like what you see when you play a 5.0-6.0 guy.

Santo the 5.5 is probably an older guy, I would think 40+ or 50+. There are a number of youtube videos of guys playing 4.0 tennis rating themselves 5.0 and 5.5. Men's 5.0 should hit with more pace and have a more effective service game than women in college or in the lower echelon of the WTA. Everyone's definition of 5.0 is different- problem is mine is higher because of the 5.0s that I personally know who are USTA computer 5.0s. They all played Division I tennis for four years and have been tennis pros since they finished college.