bigcheetah69 wrote:I'm not so big of a douche that I would call someone else a douche that I know nothing about. Furthermore, calling me a "gunner douche" for not giving all my notes away to people for no reason is absurd.

Consider the following example illustrating the ridiculousness of your unwarranted attack:

You know someone from law school that you have been friendly with, but you don't know well. They are in your Constitutional Law course. They never go to class. Instead, they spend that time having fun, doing things they like to do--things you would also like to do, but that you don't do because you are in class working.

Each week after skipping class for fun, they ask you to send them the notes you worked to get. Do you do it? If not, then by your definition, you are a "gunner douche."

The previous example is analogous to my situation.

I hope you don't use that kind of "analogous reasoning" on exams.......

My example and analogy was quite effective, as evidenced by your lack of a substantive response.

And seriously dude, how in world can you possibly think I am a douche for caring about someone effectively stealing my class notes???

Analogies need to be similar, not extreme. There's a huge difference between never going to class and asking people to give you their notes and actually going to class and peeking at your neighbors screen. One involves effort, the other doesn't.

And to be honest, I doubt this person is paying as little attention as you think. She's at least aware enough to know when to copy off your screen. I know when I zone out in class, Jessica Alba could strip in front of me and I wouldn't notice.

Anyway, my advice would be to politely say something. The screen shield is a decent idea in theory, but you're going to become that guy pretty quick. You know, the douche with the screen shield that thinks his notes are so wonderful that people are dying to copy them. It isn't YOUR notes the girl wants. She just wants notes. Yours are convenient. Actually, thats another thing that distinguishes your analogy from reality. In one, the girl copies off of you because you happen to be right next to her, in the other, the freeloader actively seeks out someone whom he knows takes copious notes and asks to borrow them.

On a side note, type in Wingdings. If anyone asks, they keep you entertained. You can change the font later. Hard to be a douche with wingdings.

A'nold wrote:1. That wasn't a good analogy and I don't have to prove myself on here by showing you why. You, on the other hand, are a new posted that should actually make sure to use better arguments. 2. By you using the word "stealing" to describe your "almost friend" just shows how clueless you are.

I take, what I think are, the most effective notes in the entire school. I take notes when no one else it typing and am not typing when everyone else is, i.e., I take my notes w/ an eye for the exam only. Every single person I sit next to glances at my screen. Let's see if they can do with my notes what I do/or do better on the exam. Based on my class rank (I say this humbly), that does not seem like a possibility right now.

A'nold, you always find a way to make my day.

I vote for the screen shield personally. If someone called me a douche for it, he or she could go pound salt and take their own damn notes. I think, therefore I am apparently douche-tastic.

Is this some awesome 0L advice about what to do in law school?

No, just saying I don't mind being the douche. I guess I was "that guy" on the train as well, when I was doing work on the way home. I'm just saying that if a screen shield makes you douchey, I guess you can add me to the list haha.

bigcheetah69 wrote:I'm not so big of a douche that I would call someone else a douche that I know nothing about. Furthermore, calling me a "gunner douche" for not giving all my notes away to people for no reason is absurd.

Consider the following example illustrating the ridiculousness of your unwarranted attack:

You know someone from law school that you have been friendly with, but you don't know well. They are in your Constitutional Law course. They never go to class. Instead, they spend that time having fun, doing things they like to do--things you would also like to do, but that you don't do because you are in class working.

Each week after skipping class for fun, they ask you to send them the notes you worked to get. Do you do it? If not, then by your definition, you are a "gunner douche."

The previous example is analogous to my situation.

I hope you don't use that kind of "analogous reasoning" on exams.......

My example and analogy was quite effective, as evidenced by your lack of a substantive response.

And seriously dude, how in world can you possibly think I am a douche for caring about someone effectively stealing my class notes???

Analogies need to be similar, not extreme. There's a huge difference between never going to class and asking people to give you their notes and actually going to class and peeking at your neighbors screen. One involves effort, the other doesn't.

And to be honest, I doubt this person is paying as little attention as you think. She's at least aware enough to know when to copy off your screen. I know when I zone out in class, Jessica Alba could strip in front of me and I wouldn't notice.

Anyway, my advice would be to politely say something. The screen shield is a decent idea in theory, but you're going to become that guy pretty quick. You know, the douche with the screen shield that thinks his notes are so wonderful that people are dying to copy them. It isn't YOUR notes the girl wants. She just wants notes. Yours are convenient. Actually, thats another thing that distinguishes your analogy from reality. In one, the girl copies off of you because you happen to be right next to her, in the other, the freeloader actively seeks out someone whom he knows takes copious notes and asks to borrow them.

On a side note, type in Wingdings. If anyone asks, they keep you entertained. You can change the font later. Hard to be a douche with wingdings.

I love how I didn't even need to say anything and someone new to the thread just rattles off two obvious flaws in op's analogy. Ahhhh, life is good.

chicagolaw2013 wrote:If someone honestly judges me based on a screen shield in law school, I'll laugh and move on. There are way bigger fish to fry in the world, beta...come on.

Uh... your classmates will be your future coworkers and clients. While you certainly don't have to follow the crowd in every regard, there's something to be said for not being the guy that everyone wants to punch in the throat. The person with the screen shield is that guy.

bigcheetah69 wrote:I'm not so big of a douche that I would call someone else a douche that I know nothing about. Furthermore, calling me a "gunner douche" for not giving all my notes away to people for no reason is absurd.

Consider the following example illustrating the ridiculousness of your unwarranted attack:

You know someone from law school that you have been friendly with, but you don't know well. They are in your Constitutional Law course. They never go to class. Instead, they spend that time having fun, doing things they like to do--things you would also like to do, but that you don't do because you are in class working.

Each week after skipping class for fun, they ask you to send them the notes you worked to get. Do you do it? If not, then by your definition, you are a "gunner douche."

The previous example is analogous to my situation.

I hope you don't use that kind of "analogous reasoning" on exams.......

My example and analogy was quite effective, as evidenced by your lack of a substantive response.

And seriously dude, how in world can you possibly think I am a douche for caring about someone effectively stealing my class notes???

Analogies need to be similar, not extreme. There's a huge difference between never going to class and asking people to give you their notes and actually going to class and peeking at your neighbors screen. One involves effort, the other doesn't.

And to be honest, I doubt this person is paying as little attention as you think. She's at least aware enough to know when to copy off your screen. I know when I zone out in class, Jessica Alba could strip in front of me and I wouldn't notice.

Anyway, my advice would be to politely say something. The screen shield is a decent idea in theory, but you're going to become that guy pretty quick. You know, the douche with the screen shield that thinks his notes are so wonderful that people are dying to copy them. It isn't YOUR notes the girl wants. She just wants notes. Yours are convenient. Actually, thats another thing that distinguishes your analogy from reality. In one, the girl copies off of you because you happen to be right next to her, in the other, the freeloader actively seeks out someone whom he knows takes copious notes and asks to borrow them.

On a side note, type in Wingdings. If anyone asks, they keep you entertained. You can change the font later. Hard to be a douche with wingdings.

Actually, the most important thing with analogies is that the principles behind both situations are the same. In my analogy, they are. The principle behind the girl not going to class is she gains nothing from class. The principle behind her not paying attention is that she gains nothing from class. (You should assume she retains basically nothing from class--I know the situation much better than you).

The fact that asking for notes involves effort and one does not has no bearing on this situation. Therefore it is an arbitrary distinction with no logical force as applied to our current facts.

Your second distinction is better, but still does little to rebut my argument. Maybe it is true that the one who asks for notes "actively seeks me out," thus increasing her culpability (although this is still weak). However, this is more than countered by the fact that the one who asks for notes actually asks, whereas the girl sitting next to me just takes.

Superficial distinctions, like the ones you provided, are useless.

Last edited by bigcheetah69 on Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

bigcheetah69 wrote:Actually, the most important thing with analogies is that the principles behind both situations are the same. In my analogy, they are. The principle behind the girl not going to class is she gains nothing from class. The principle behind her not paying attention is that she gains nothing from class. (You should assume she retains basically nothing from class--I know the situation much better than you).

Incorrect. Principle is not the most important thing. That'd be like saying a situation where a guy punches you in the face and one where a guy guts you with a fish hook are analogous because the principle is the same... the guy harms you physically with no provocation. But the differences are substantial enough the situations are not truly analogous. Analogy dies with extremity. Similarity is the most important thing.

Last edited by caoyun on Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

bigcheetah69 wrote:I hope you don't use that kind of "analogous reasoning" on exams.......

My example and analogy was quite effective, as evidenced by your lack of a substantive response.

And seriously dude, how in world can you possibly think I am a douche for caring about someone effectively stealing my class notes???

Analogies need to be similar, not extreme. There's a huge difference between never going to class and asking people to give you their notes and actually going to class and peeking at your neighbors screen. One involves effort, the other doesn't.

And to be honest, I doubt this person is paying as little attention as you think. She's at least aware enough to know when to copy off your screen. I know when I zone out in class, Jessica Alba could strip in front of me and I wouldn't notice.

Anyway, my advice would be to politely say something. The screen shield is a decent idea in theory, but you're going to become that guy pretty quick. You know, the douche with the screen shield that thinks his notes are so wonderful that people are dying to copy them. It isn't YOUR notes the girl wants. She just wants notes. Yours are convenient. Actually, thats another thing that distinguishes your analogy from reality. In one, the girl copies off of you because you happen to be right next to her, in the other, the freeloader actively seeks out someone whom he knows takes copious notes and asks to borrow them.

On a side note, type in Wingdings. If anyone asks, they keep you entertained. You can change the font later. Hard to be a douche with wingdings.

Actually, the most important thing with analogies is that the principles behind both situations are the same. In my analogy, they are. The principle behind the girl not going to class is she gains nothing from class. The principle behind her not paying attention is that she gains nothing from class. (You should assume she retains basically nothing from class--I know the situation much better than you).

The fact that asking for notes involves effort and one does not has no bearing on this situation. Therefore it is an arbitrary distinction with no logical force as applied to our current facts.

Your second distinction is better, but still does little to rebut my argument. Maybe it is true that the one who asks for notes "actively seeks me out," thus increasing her culpability (although this is still weak). However, this is more than countered by the fact that the one who asks for notes actually asks, whereas the girl sitting next to me just takes.

Superficial distinctions, like the ones you provided, are useless.

ORLY? Using really awesome smart lawyer people legalese = complete demolishing of all us dums.

I bow down to your superior knowledge and vastly superior, psychic like note taking abilities. However, I will not ask you for your notes, oh godlike one.

bigcheetah69 wrote:Actually, the most important thing with analogies is that the principles behind both situations are the same. In my analogy, they are. The principle behind the girl not going to class is she gains nothing from class. The principle behind her not paying attention is that she gains nothing from class. (You should assume she retains basically nothing from class--I know the situation much better than you).

Incorrect. Principle is not the most important thing. That'd be like saying a situation where a guy punches you in the face and one where a guy guts you with a fish hook are analogous because the principle is the same... the guy harms you physically with no provocation. But the differences are substantial enough the situations are not truly analogous. Analogy dies with extremity. Similarity is the most important thing.

Caoyun- thank you, you just made the siren-esque ear piercing noise in my ear come down to a hum.

chicagolaw2013 wrote:If someone honestly judges me based on a screen shield in law school, I'll laugh and move on. There are way bigger fish to fry in the world, beta...come on.

Uh... your classmates will be your future coworkers and clients. While you certainly don't have to follow the crowd in every regard, there's something to be said for not being the guy that everyone wants to punch in the throat. The person with the screen shield is that guy.

+1, I was just going to post something very similar.

Chicago- you cannot let yourself meet the same fate as op. He/she is already a lost law school soul that has been labeled a gunner douce by most of his/her classmates. I would bet 1,000 dollars that most of their class cannot stand this op. You can tell just by this thread that op rubs people the wrong way just by speaking. You need to make contacts in law school. There are already up to 20 or so people in my school (probably closer to 50) that I would never help get a job or put myself out there on the line for. There are about 10 people that I would completely recommend without hesitation. It matters.

chicagolaw2013 wrote:If someone honestly judges me based on a screen shield in law school, I'll laugh and move on. There are way bigger fish to fry in the world, beta...come on.

Uh... your classmates will be your future coworkers and clients. While you certainly don't have to follow the crowd in every regard, there's something to be said for not being the guy that everyone wants to punch in the throat. The person with the screen shield is that guy.

+1, I was just going to post something very similar.

Chicago- you cannot let yourself meet the same fate as op. He/she is already a lost law school soul that has been labeled a gunner douce by most of his/her classmates. I would bet 1,000 dollars that most of their class cannot stand this op. You can tell just by this thread that op rubs people the wrong way just by speaking. You need to make contacts in law school. There are already up to 20 or so people in my school (probably closer to 50) that I would never help get a job or put myself out there on the line for. There are about 10 people that I would completely recommend without hesitation. It matters.

Ok, I will stow my screen shield based on recommendations. Not ready to throw it out completely yet...is it bad that I got attached? At work, I'd be working with sensitive docs, hence why I needed the shield, especially since I had more work to do than was possible in an 8 to 5 day, and would need to work on the train ride home (past tense since I've moved on from the hell that was this job haha). I completely understand that law school notes are not confidential items, but I guess I've just gotten accustomed to using the screen. I will have to work on my dependency lol.

Don't get me wrong. I sorta understand where you're coming from. The way you look at it, you're working hard and this chick is just taking your work so that she can gchat all through class. That's fine. Not liking that doesn't make you a douche (though it does raise some character issues). What makes you a douche is how you handle situations like this. Being a passive aggressive bitch is going to earn you a bad reputation. You think this girl won't notice when you suddenly show up with a screen shield? Man - the - fuck - up. If you have a problem with someone, talk to them. This chick is an adult. You're supposed to be an adult. Don't deal with a problem like an eight year old. I repeat. Man. Up.

And by the way, you really need to learn that when someone raises an argument against something you said, responding in highly formal language (or legalese, as A'nold said, though I don't think how you talked qualifies as legalese for the most part) is pathetic. It doesn't impress anyone. We can all talk like that. The thing is, that's not how people actually talk. Sure, when you're in court or writing a brief or motion in court, go for it. But if you honestly think its going to make your argument anymore persuasive, you're in for a nasty surprise in the real world. Remember, we're ALL law students (except for the 0L's running around, I suppose), we can all throw in shit like "arbitrary distinction" and "culpability" and all that. But guess what? Big words and fancy diction can't make up for a lack of a substantial argument.

So let's recap. OP vents about people looking at his notes. Suggestions are tendered. OP expresses annoyance at someone unjustly benefiting from his notes. A debate ensues as to whether or not the OP is an egomaniac. Chicago and A'nold have a side discussion about screen shields. Snarky comments and flaming are intermittent, along with a riveting deconstruction of opposing analogies.

Though I've been following this thread since the bottom of page 1, I keep looking back to the original post, each time thinking that, were I in the OP's shoes, I would wonder why my classmates are distracted and if the behavior persisted, I might even inquire out of genuine concern. If a classmate were routinely glancing at my notes, I'd likely tilt my laptop in their direction, if I even noticed at all. I'm a OL, so I'm reflecting on past experience when I say that notes don't mean shit if you don't understand the material or fail to put it into context. Maybe that's different in law school. Regardless, I have requisite self-esteem not to be put off when people don't act in accordance with my worldview, and when some person I barely know glances sidelong at my Tandy, you won't find me invoking value systems or moral principles. Suffice to say, I simply wouldn't give a fuck.

Apparently I'd make a shitty law student and by extension a terrible lawyer. How's the job market in social work?

chicagolaw2013 wrote:If someone honestly judges me based on a screen shield in law school, I'll laugh and move on. There are way bigger fish to fry in the world, beta...come on.

Uh... your classmates will be your future coworkers and clients. While you certainly don't have to follow the crowd in every regard, there's something to be said for not being the guy that everyone wants to punch in the throat. The person with the screen shield is that guy.

+1, I was just going to post something very similar.

Chicago- you cannot let yourself meet the same fate as op. He/she is already a lost law school soul that has been labeled a gunner douce by most of his/her classmates. I would bet 1,000 dollars that most of their class cannot stand this op. You can tell just by this thread that op rubs people the wrong way just by speaking. You need to make contacts in law school. There are already up to 20 or so people in my school (probably closer to 50) that I would never help get a job or put myself out there on the line for. There are about 10 people that I would completely recommend without hesitation. It matters.

Ok, I will stow my screen shield based on recommendations. Not ready to throw it out completely yet...is it bad that I got attached? At work, I'd be working with sensitive docs, hence why I needed the shield, especially since I had more work to do than was possible in an 8 to 5 day, and would need to work on the train ride home (past tense since I've moved on from the hell that was this job haha). I completely understand that law school notes are not confidential items, but I guess I've just gotten accustomed to using the screen. I will have to work on my dependency lol.

O.k., I'll calm down my op bashing for a second and tell you the reality of the situation. You do not seem like you will be labeled a "douche" Chicago2013. Your use of a screen shield was completely legit. What we are talking about right now are gunners or just "that guy" types. Like has been said, the label you get in law school will stick with you into the future. Think about the dorks or social mutant types at your grade/junior high/and high school. You likely still remember who they are and how weird they were or undersirable to be around. Law school is 1,000x worse, and it is your career you're dealing with. You hear judges, attorneys, and professors say it a million times, but do not make a bad impression with your classmates.

I was at a pre-law function before the fall semester and I was sitting next to a state supreme court justice. He was randomly paired with an attorney that was in-house counsel for a very unique kind of group. When they saw each other they were like "Betty! How are you doing these days? Can you believe that judge so and so said blank?" They had not seen each other in years but they had crossed paths a ton of times during their legal careers. One was a supreme court justice and one a very prominent in-house counsel attorney. They were in the same class at my school in like the 80's. You will hear the statement "the legal professional is a very small, very reputation-driven field" more times than you can stand.

Another anecdote. Without revealing too much about myself, something happened to me that may serve as an example about the consequences of singling yourself out as a selfish, arrogant, gunner douche.I was having a conversation with a gunner that had made their plans to be at the top of the class known to everyone. When I casually and innocently asked where they were going next, this person shrugged off my question and said something like "oh nothing." It ended up that their group was putting together a "secret study session" where only who that person deemed the best and brightest could attend. I (obviously) do not take myself very seriously and joke around a lot, which many people appear to have taken to mean I am not a very studious or top student material kind of person. I will always remember that exchange. I have better grades than that person and will likely be in a better position for better clerkships, firm jobs, gov. jobs, etc. during OCI and maybe even after we graduate. Who knows what will happen. I do know that I will remember that exchange though. Oh, also, seeing as how I am friendlier and more easy going than this student, I will likely have more law friend "connections" than they will, thus I may have more people that will ask me if this person is a good hire, to which I can answer any number of ways.I'm just trying to point out the necessity of being cordial and non-douchey to your classmates.

Don't get me wrong. I sorta understand where you're coming from. The way you look at it, you're working hard and this chick is just taking your work so that she can gchat all through class. That's fine. Not liking that doesn't make you a douche (though it does raise some character issues). What makes you a douche is how you handle situations like this. Being a passive aggressive bitch is going to earn you a bad reputation. You think this girl won't notice when you suddenly show up with a screen shield? Man - the - fuck - up. If you have a problem with someone, talk to them. This chick is an adult. You're supposed to be an adult. Don't deal with a problem like an eight year old. I repeat. Man. Up.

And by the way, you really need to learn that when someone raises an argument against something you said, responding in highly formal language (or legalese, as A'nold said, though I don't think how you talked qualifies as legalese for the most part) is pathetic. It doesn't impress anyone. We can all talk like that. The thing is, that's not how people actually talk. Sure, when you're in court or writing a brief or motion in court, go for it. But if you honestly think its going to make your argument anymore persuasive, you're in for a nasty surprise in the real world. Remember, we're ALL law students (except for the 0L's running around, I suppose), we can all throw in shit like "arbitrary distinction" and "culpability" and all that. But guess what? Big words and fancy diction can't make up for a lack of a substantial argument.

TITmostCR evar.

Tbh, I also don't really have a problem with the op having beef with this situation. Expressing this opinion, though, will display your douchiness to the class, as it did in this thread.

A'nold wrote:Tbh, I also don't really have a problem with the op having beef with this situation. Expressing this opinion, though, will display your douchiness to the class, as it did in this thread.

I believe there are parallels between the OP's problem in class and the manner in which this discussion devolved into one massive overreaction laden with presumption and some defensive use of jargon. Either that, or I've fallen prey to a very clever troll.

OP, I believe you when you say that the situation in class has "gotten into [your] head a little bit." That may be an understatement. Let me put some previous statements into a nice tidy package:

The principles underpinning your annoyance are understandable, but your reaction is not. If your classmates aren't paying attention to the lecture, how would they know that you're taking quality notes? They simply know you're writing something down, that they weren't, and your something is better than their nothing. You take this very seriously, that much is clear, and this is commendable. Not everyone will, regardless of the effort it took to get into law school. Drawing hasty conclusions about these, or any classmates, or people more generally, will not serve you well in the end. You're probably a decent guy that is under a lot of pressure right now. That's to be expected. You would do yourself a world of good learning to turn annoying situations to your advantage, or, hey, letting things like this, that, vexing though they may be, have virtually no bearing on YOUR future, fall by the wayside.

Something tells me this may be a reoccurring problem. You may want to speak with someone about that. You worked hard to get where you are. Now it's about working hard tot where you're going. The playing field is a little different now, and scores alone won't secure your future. You have a class of contacts sitting around you, and a few of them are people you're ALLOWING to copy your notes. You're allowing them to do that because you're a laid back guy and it's no big deal...catch my drift?

A'nold wrote:Tbh, I also don't really have a problem with the op having beef with this situation. Expressing this opinion, though, will display your douchiness to the class, as it did in this thread.

I believe there are parallels between the OP's problem in class and the manner in which this discussion devolved into one massive overreaction laden with presumption and some defensive use of jargon. Either that, or I've fallen prey to a very clever troll.

OP, I believe you when you say that the situation in class has "gotten into [your] head a little bit." That may be an understatement. Let me put some previous statements into a nice tidy package:

The principles underpinning your annoyance are understandable, but your reaction is not. If your classmates aren't paying attention to the lecture, how would they know that you're taking quality notes? They simply know you're writing something down, that they weren't, and your something is better than their nothing. You take this very seriously, that much is clear, and this is commendable. Not everyone will, regardless of the effort it took to get into law school. Drawing hasty conclusions about these, or any classmates, or people more generally, will not serve you well in the end. You're probably a decent guy that is under a lot of pressure right now. That's to be expected. You would do yourself a world of good learning to turn annoying situations to your advantage, or, hey, letting things like this, that, vexing though they may be, have virtually no bearing on YOUR future, fall by the wayside.

Something tells me this may be a reoccurring problem. You may want to speak with someone about that. You worked hard to get where you are. Now it's about working hard tot where you're going. The playing field is a little different now, and scores alone won't secure your future. You have a class of contacts sitting around you, and a few of them are people you're ALLOWING to copy your notes. You're allowing them to do that because you're a laid back guy and it's no big deal...catch my drift?

Good luck, man, from one very intrigued 0L.

omfg +1, i had to read 4 pages of this (why i did i have no idea) to find the page w/ TCRs! lol snuggie and caoyun:

A'nold wrote:

caoyun wrote:OP --

Don't get me wrong. I sorta understand where you're coming from. The way you look at it, you're working hard and this chick is just taking your work so that she can gchat all through class. That's fine. Not liking that doesn't make you a douche (though it does raise some character issues). What makes you a douche is how you handle situations like this. Being a passive aggressive bitch is going to earn you a bad reputation. You think this girl won't notice when you suddenly show up with a screen shield? Man - the - fuck - up. If you have a problem with someone, talk to them. This chick is an adult. You're supposed to be an adult. Don't deal with a problem like an eight year old. I repeat. Man. Up.

And by the way, you really need to learn that when someone raises an argument against something you said, responding in highly formal language (or legalese, as A'nold said, though I don't think how you talked qualifies as legalese for the most part) is pathetic. It doesn't impress anyone. We can all talk like that. The thing is, that's not how people actually talk. Sure, when you're in court or writing a brief or motion in court, go for it. But if you honestly think its going to make your argument anymore persuasive, you're in for a nasty surprise in the real world. Remember, we're ALL law students (except for the 0L's running around, I suppose), we can all throw in shit like "arbitrary distinction" and "culpability" and all that. But guess what? Big words and fancy diction can't make up for a lack of a substantial argument.

TITmostCR evar.

Tbh, I also don't really have a problem with the op having beef with this situation. Expressing this opinion, though, will display your douchiness to the class, as it did in this thread.

those are the best answers. though to be fair, a'nold sort of attacked the OP out of the gate. at first i thought betasteve and a'nold were being too douchey and hard on the OP, i mean give him some credit, he defended himself w/o resorting to name calling or insults -- how often do you find that on an online msg board defense?!...but the more the OP defended himself, the more i sort of saw their point lol. OP's overreacting. it is okay to feel annoyed by the situation, but look at the big picture.

A'nold wrote:Tbh, I also don't really have a problem with the op having beef with this situation. Expressing this opinion, though, will display your douchiness to the class, as it did in this thread.

I believe there are parallels between the OP's problem in class and the manner in which this discussion devolved into one massive overreaction laden with presumption and some defensive use of jargon. Either that, or I've fallen prey to a very clever troll.

OP, I believe you when you say that the situation in class has "gotten into [your] head a little bit." That may be an understatement. Let me put some previous statements into a nice tidy package:

The principles underpinning your annoyance are understandable, but your reaction is not. If your classmates aren't paying attention to the lecture, how would they know that you're taking quality notes? They simply know you're writing something down, that they weren't, and your something is better than their nothing. You take this very seriously, that much is clear, and this is commendable. Not everyone will, regardless of the effort it took to get into law school. Drawing hasty conclusions about these, or any classmates, or people more generally, will not serve you well in the end. You're probably a decent guy that is under a lot of pressure right now. That's to be expected. You would do yourself a world of good learning to turn annoying situations to your advantage, or, hey, letting things like this, that, vexing though they may be, have virtually no bearing on YOUR future, fall by the wayside.

Something tells me this may be a reoccurring problem. You may want to speak with someone about that. You worked hard to get where you are. Now it's about working hard tot where you're going. The playing field is a little different now, and scores alone won't secure your future. You have a class of contacts sitting around you, and a few of them are people you're ALLOWING to copy your notes. You're allowing them to do that because you're a laid back guy and it's no big deal...catch my drift?

Good luck, man, from one very intrigued 0L.

Well, maybe we wouldn't rank on 0L's as much if they posted more things like this. This was a good post, especially the "allowing" and "laid back" part.

I may be coming across like I am this uber uncompetitive laying on a beach in Hawaii guy that goes out of his way to help even the most lazy classmate. That is not the case. I am EXTREMELY competitive and think about law school constantly. I even have gunner tendancies, like grade obsession, that I have to keep in check. HOWEVER, there are things to worry about, and then there are things to worry about. Hiding your notes from others or getting all "principled" about things that don't matter will alienate you from the get go. For example, you looked foolish and douchey when you tried to use legal jargon and big words to prove your point. As was pointed out, we all know exactly what you said and an attempt to sound smart, important, or even try to confuse us actually had the opposite effect, it proved to us even more that you are pompous and self idolizing. That may not be the case op. You may be the greatest thing since the Glannon E&E for Civ Pro, but if your.....let's see here...."outward manifestations" tell us otherwise, we will assume that is what you meant, see? Just like contracts!

Last edited by A'nold on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

A'nold wrote:Tbh, I also don't really have a problem with the op having beef with this situation. Expressing this opinion, though, will display your douchiness to the class, as it did in this thread.

I believe there are parallels between the OP's problem in class and the manner in which this discussion devolved into one massive overreaction laden with presumption and some defensive use of jargon. Either that, or I've fallen prey to a very clever troll.

OP, I believe you when you say that the situation in class has "gotten into [your] head a little bit." That may be an understatement. Let me put some previous statements into a nice tidy package:

The principles underpinning your annoyance are understandable, but your reaction is not. If your classmates aren't paying attention to the lecture, how would they know that you're taking quality notes? They simply know you're writing something down, that they weren't, and your something is better than their nothing. You take this very seriously, that much is clear, and this is commendable. Not everyone will, regardless of the effort it took to get into law school. Drawing hasty conclusions about these, or any classmates, or people more generally, will not serve you well in the end. You're probably a decent guy that is under a lot of pressure right now. That's to be expected. You would do yourself a world of good learning to turn annoying situations to your advantage, or, hey, letting things like this, that, vexing though they may be, have virtually no bearing on YOUR future, fall by the wayside.

Something tells me this may be a reoccurring problem. You may want to speak with someone about that. You worked hard to get where you are. Now it's about working hard tot where you're going. The playing field is a little different now, and scores alone won't secure your future. You have a class of contacts sitting around you, and a few of them are people you're ALLOWING to copy your notes. You're allowing them to do that because you're a laid back guy and it's no big deal...catch my drift?

Good luck, man, from one very intrigued 0L.

omfg +1, i had to read 4 pages of this (why i did i have no idea) to find the page w/ TCRs! lol snuggie and caoyun:

A'nold wrote:

caoyun wrote:OP --

Don't get me wrong. I sorta understand where you're coming from. The way you look at it, you're working hard and this chick is just taking your work so that she can gchat all through class. That's fine. Not liking that doesn't make you a douche (though it does raise some character issues). What makes you a douche is how you handle situations like this. Being a passive aggressive bitch is going to earn you a bad reputation. You think this girl won't notice when you suddenly show up with a screen shield? Man - the - fuck - up. If you have a problem with someone, talk to them. This chick is an adult. You're supposed to be an adult. Don't deal with a problem like an eight year old. I repeat. Man. Up.

And by the way, you really need to learn that when someone raises an argument against something you said, responding in highly formal language (or legalese, as A'nold said, though I don't think how you talked qualifies as legalese for the most part) is pathetic. It doesn't impress anyone. We can all talk like that. The thing is, that's not how people actually talk. Sure, when you're in court or writing a brief or motion in court, go for it. But if you honestly think its going to make your argument anymore persuasive, you're in for a nasty surprise in the real world. Remember, we're ALL law students (except for the 0L's running around, I suppose), we can all throw in shit like "arbitrary distinction" and "culpability" and all that. But guess what? Big words and fancy diction can't make up for a lack of a substantial argument.

TITmostCR evar.

Tbh, I also don't really have a problem with the op having beef with this situation. Expressing this opinion, though, will display your douchiness to the class, as it did in this thread.

those are the best answers. though to be fair, a'nold sort of attacked the OP out of the gate. at first i thought betasteve and a'nold were being too douchey and hard on the OP, i mean give him some credit, he defended himself w/o resorting to name calling or insults -- how often do you find that on an online msg board defense?!...but the more the OP defended himself, the more i sort of saw their point lol. OP's overreacting. it is okay to feel annoyed by the situation, but look at the big picture.

If you are a 0L, then you will understand even more than the understanding you gained by reading through this thread. You will see the "that guy" of the class immediately. When everytime "that guy" raises their hand, your stomach sinks, you see 20 people turn and look at each other with a sarcastic grin or an eye roll, and about 40 groaning sounds, couple w/ a professor's ignoring of such student until his/her hand has been up for 30 minutes and the professor calls on anyone with even half a hand raise or a nod of their head, you will REALLY know what we are talking about.