OTOH, I think that HE would find the hypocrisy and bearing of false witness, by so many on your side, to be not just appalling, but sinful.

Hey, how come you get to violate so many rules around here by your continual calling people liars?? Per the Religious Moderator's rules:

"Calling an author a liar is permitted  calling another poster a liar is not.

Attributing motive to an author is permitted  reading the mind of another poster is not.

I don't want to get trigger happy like you have tonight and ping the Moderator, but I'm getting a little sick of the name calling around here. I try not to bother them.

Why don't you try sticking to debating the issue without the personal attacks? If you can't defend your position without resorting to it, then perhaps you need to find another thread where everyone is in agreement with you.

Just because we have freedom of religion doesn't mean that all religions are true or have equal value.

I love your bigotry against Catholicism. Sure, my ignorance of the Craft. Big laugh. Sort of like

You have freedom of religion here in this blessed nation, but fortunately, you no longer have freedom to impose your religion by the sword and firebrand.

>>>The Catholic Church has always formally denounced forced conversions as invalid. Your ignorance of Catholic teaching and theology is glaring. The Roman Popes universally condemned the mistreatment of the Jews for centuries, and the sad part is they usually were ignored. The same goes for papal injunctions against the enslavement of the Indians, which the Jesuits and Franciscans fought and died to prevent, often unsuccessfully.

Perhaps you read the black legends cooked up by your bigoted Masonic fraternity.

302
posted on 07/20/2006 8:05:05 PM PDT
by pravknight
(Liberalism under the guise of magisterial teaching is still heresy)

FREEMASONRY: FOUNDATION OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION Researched and Compiled by Pauly Fongemie for Catholic Tradition

PART 4: THE PENETRATION OF THE MASONIC "PHILOSOPHY" AND THE MODE OF OPERATION

Several Popes were quick to perceive the penetration of Masonic "philosophy" into the society of the Church itself, so that in 1832, Pope Gregory XVI warned about the clamor within the Church to make it "more relevant to society." Encyclicals since his time have recognized the rise and spread of what today is called "Modernism."

"However, today, the papacy's long held militantly negative view of Freemasonry is discredited by many within and outside the Church. The consensus holds that the secret Fraternity in the United States differs greatly from its counterpart in Europe and elsewhere. Moreover, many who include themselves within that consensus applaud the Craft's efforts to emasculate the Church's power and moral influence.

"Frequently these people reason that since there is no Established Church in the United States, such as the Catholic Church was in Europe and Latin America, there is no need for Masonry or anyone else to war on religion in America. . . . that all the Church wants is freedom, that is freedom to practice its religion on a par with other religions. Such thinking is dangerously naive and furthers Masonry's diabolical program." [THEIR GOD IS THE DEVIL, Paul Fisher, pp. 7-8.]

Let us be clear about the following:

* Freemasonry strongly favors an established religion----its own, one in which it has been so successful in achieving in the United States and elsewhere that today most people who espouse Catholicism and the various heresies called Protestantism and those who profess neither all accept and claim the same doctrine, that one is free to worship anyway one prefers, that man is ultimately his own arbiter of good and evil. This is essentially the religion of Masonry in its most simple element. * Masonry and its friends are adamant in its opposition to freedom for other religions to compete with this now almost universal religion. * Masonry is a religious organization: this is evident in the Apprentice Mason's handbook, and in virtually all Masonic writings, particularly MORALS AND DOGMA published in 1871, which is used in all Scottish Rite degree initiations to explain the Craft's philosophy. The latter book was authored by Albert Pike, the Grand Philosopher of Scottish Rite Freemasonry of the Southern Jurisdiction, and for many years that organization's Sovereign Grand Commander. His work is not only recommended in every issue of the official magazine of the Rite, the NEW AGE, but its philosophy is so highly esteemed by the Brotherhood that, Sovereign Grand Commander Henry G. Clausen wrote his COMMENTARIES on Pike's "magnum opus":

"The Craft, Pike wrote, is the successor to the Ancient Mysteries, and teaches and preserves the cardinal tenets of the primitive faith. Masonry's 'same old truths,' he insists, [pages 14, 814] were gathered "from the ZEND-AVESTA and the VEDAS [Zoroastrianism], from Plato and Pythagoras, from India, Persia, Phonecia, Greece, Egypt and the Holy Books of the Jews . . . These doctrines are the religion and philosophy of Masonry."

On pages 148 and 161 he writes: "It is the province of Masonry to teach all truths, not moral truth alone, but political and philosophical, and even religious truth." Masonry, he asserted, is "the universal morality."

The world, the Masonic Grand Philosopher predicted [p. 817] "will soon come to us for its Sovereigns and Pontiffs. We shall constitute the equilibrium of the universe, and be rulers over the masters of the world."

# Masonry conducted a full-scale, vicious attack on the Catholic Church under the auspices of its grandchild, the violently anti-Catholic Know-Nothing Movement in America, which was reorganized as the American Protective Association [APA], and the Ku Klux Klan [KKK]. # The religious situation in the United States required Masonry to use a different strategy in its war on religion in the United States than it used in Europe and Latin America. Thus no single religious denomination prevailed as the dominant one, but rather a blend of Protestantism was the Established Church. From colonial times forward, the laws of the nation and the several States clearly sanctioned the moral values of general "Christianity", as a reading of Federal and State laws reveals. # James Madison in his "Memorial and Remonstrance", a document often cited favorably by the U.S. Supreme Court, even in recent years, made a statement which accords solidly with the consistent teaching of the Catholic Church. Madison said:

"Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe: and . . . every man who becomes a member of any particular Civil Society [must] do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign."

In four separate decisions the U.S. Supreme Court asserted that the United States is a "Christian" [meaning Protestant, see what was banned below in bold text] nation. Those decisions are: Vidal v. Girard's Executors [1844]; Mormon Church v. United States [1889]; Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States [1892]; and US. v. McIntosh [1931]. Perhaps preeminent among the many laws in the States were those requiring prayer and Bible reading in public schools. [THEIR GOD IS THE DEVIL, Paul Fisher, pp. 8-9.]

Other laws prohibited non-essential selling on Sundays. Still others banned transportation of contraceptives through the U.S. mails. Also outlawed were: blasphemy against God, Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary; public obscenity; fornication; adultery; easy divorce [Ronald Reagan became our first divorced President]; pornography; abortion; and advocacy of overthrow of the government by force or violence, quite ironically considering the establishment of the United States. Except for the abortion decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court, nearly all of those laws were struck down between 1941 and 1971 when the high bench was dominated----for the first time in its history----by Justices who were members of the Masonic Fraternity. Some of the Masonic Justices were: Hugo L. Black, James F. Byrnes, Samuel Blatchford, Harold H. Burton, Thomas c. Clark, John H. Clarke, William Cushing, William O. Douglas Oliver Ellsworth, Stephen Field, John Harlan, Robert H. Jackson, Thurgood Marshall, Stanley Reed, Earl Warren, Frederick Vinson, Stewart Potter. John Marshall, the First Chief Justice, and John Blair, Jr., of the Constitutional Convention were also practitioners of the Craft. In the interest of conserving space, we gave a partial list only. Three recent members were mentioned above.

The abortion decisions have been predicated on a 1965 decision "Griswold v. Connecticut" which found "penumbras" and shadowings in the Constitution of a "right to privacy." These facts have all been documented in Behind The Lodge Door: Church, State and Freemasonry In America, by Paul Fisher.

Thus, while it is generally accepted that the secret Fraternity of Freemasonry actively worked to undermine the Church in Europe and Latin America, it is also evident that Masons played a major role in undermining Catholic morality in the United States.

According to Paul Fisher "the lasting impact of decisions made by the Court when it was dominated by Masons can readily be evaluated by simply comparing crime statistics and the general disintegration of society for the periods before and after 1941----particularly since 1963, following Court decisions which formally jettisoned belief in God as a criterion for holding public office and outlawed prayer and Bible reading in public schools.

"In 1884, Pope Leo XIII echoed the view many of his predecessors and successors articulated about Freemasonry. He said the ultimate purpose of Masonry is 'the utter overthrow of that whole religious and political order of the world which the Christian teaching has produced, and the substitution of a new state of things in accordance with their ideas, of which the foundations and laws shall be drawn from mere naturalism.'

"His catalogue of the evils inherent in Masonry included its religious indifferentism, its efforts to prohibit any influence" of the Catholic Church in society, "its plots to destroy the Papacy, and, in all nations, its efforts to control the education of youth and require that all reference to God or Jesus Christ be expunged from the curriculum."

"In the name of liberty," the pontiff said, "Masonry defends license for vice and licentiousness." [THEIR GOD IS THE DEVIL, Paul A. Fisher, pp. 7-10.]

The Mode of Operation Taken from Secret Societies and The Kingship of Christ, Fr. Denis Fahey, C.S.Sp., pp. 65-106

[Let us look] at the process by which the Masonic mentality is spread abroad amongst the people.

Masonry was [always] combated by Catholicism. Catholicism must be eradicated. The object of the Sect was the production of a state of mind that would be fanatically anti-Catholic: and the principle invoked in order to bring about this state of mind was the principle of toleration. The sublime mission of Masonry was conceived as the establishment in the world of the Religion of Toleration. Respect for Catholicism, that is, for " sincere Catholicism," was at first insisted on. Certain lecturers stressed the fact that if they had any hatred or enmity in their hearts it was against those intolerant Catholics who were, without suspecting it, the enemies of Catholicism. Masons were first urged to struggle against a section of the Catholic Church, the Jesuits, for example, under pretense that these interpreted the Catholic religion with intolerance. Masonry, accordingly, had for sublime mission to defend the tolerant Catholics against the intolerant Jesuits, so the Jesuits had to be suppressed, But then it was seen that the Jesuitical spirit had invaded the whole Church, so the "good" Catholics had to be protected against the "bad " ones infected with that spirit. But after some time, the lecturers discovered that the root of the hateful Jesuitical intolerant spirit was the absolutism of dogma. The mildest of men, it was affirmed, become intolerant when they accept dogma, for dogma is intolerant by nature. Accordingly, Masonry had to defend the world against dogma. Thus minds were prepared for an attack, no longer merely on the individuals who it was pretended interpreted the doctrine wrongly, but on the doctrine itself, in order to defend the human race. The lectures took another turn also, It was not the Catholic religion that was the object of attack, but "Clericalism", [defined by the Masons as Catholic principles brought to bear in society and politics.]

The moderate-minded in the Lodges would have protested against attacking the Catholic religion because of the clause in the statutes demanding respect for all religions, but the political domination of priests could not be accepted. The campaign was begun in the lodges and continued outside, in the Parliament, in the Press, in schools. Then, one fine day, the hatred accumulated against " clericalism " was turned against Catholicism. But, before that, the religious Congregations had to he suppressed, because they were the great defenders of clericalism. The secular clergy were spared for the moment, but their turn came also, when Masonry found itself strong enough to avow that its object was the complete destruction of the supernatural. Long before that avowal was made in public, Brother Courdavaux, Professor of Literature in the University of Douai, frequently repeated in lectures in lodges in 1888 and 1889, that "The distinction between Catholicism and Clericalism is a purely official, subtle distinction for public discourses. Here in the secrecy of the lodge, let us proclaim the truth openly, Catholicism and Clericalism are one and the same thing." This glorification of lying and hypocrisy was received with applause. Let us now turn to the process by which the unity of a people around the supernatural, and in. subordination to it, is gradually undermined and ruined.

How does naturalism penetrate from the lodges into the masses of the people? The journalist in his articles, the writer in his books, the dramatic author and film-producer in their compositions, the song-writer in his songs, the professor in his lectures, the teacher in his classes, all abroad the ideas with which they have been impregnated in Masonic reunions. And as the Masons who thus act as propagandists do not avow that they are Masons, their action is not recognized as Masonic action. The moderate paper, seemingly respectful of religion, may have, without its being known, its Mason or Masons, who insert therein what it is safe to say, going as far as is possible for the moment and biding their time till public opinion is formed and ready to accept something stronger. In the lodges, these Masons come in contact with those who are engaged on the anti-Catholic papers.

Besides the direct action of its own members on the public in their different capacities, Masonry aims at creating sub-Masonries or associations for the propagation of its ideas. These associations vary according to the types of intelligences for which they are destined, but, in spite of differences, the Naturalistic and anti-Supernatural note is always present. The gradations of this ever-present characteristic range from rabid anti-Catholicism to "broad-minded" indifferentism. In 1891, at the Congress of the Lodges of the South of France, it was stated that French Free-thinkers formed 600, groups, the formation of which was in great part due to Masonry; In 1894, the Masonic Congress of Amiens recommended the creation of societies acting under Masonic inspiration, yet such that the action of Masonry should remain hidden: "thus we shall be able, to make our ideas predominant everywhere, while we remain in the background.''

In the Revue Int. des Societe's Secretes, of 16th October, 1927 there was a quotation from Neues Reich of 9th July, 1927 concerning the Rotary Club. According to this extract, Rotary is a particular aspect of Masonic activity, a sort of open MaSonry. The principal object of Rotary is the elevation of the moral level ot humanity. Hence at the recent Ostend Congress of Rotary Clubs from the entire world, the Belgian Minister of Justice defined Rotary as "a code of lay morality and of national and international citizenship."

To those acquainted with Masonic ideals, this last phrase speaks volumes.

Besides creating associations for the dissemination of Masonic ideas, Masonry aims at getting an entrance into and arriving at the control of associations which it has not created. The Congress of Amiens, already referred to, urged that Brothers "should seek to enter existing societies, but with the greatest prudence. The Congress of the Lodges of the North-West of France, by the mouth of Brother Bourget, urged the "entrance of Masons into societies of Free-thinkers and the sounding of the intentions of Primary Teachers, who in their capacity of educators of the people can render us great services."

Thus does Masonry spread naturalism and indifferentism, always acting hypocritically and always taking care to proportion the doses of intellectual and moral poison to the capacity of assimilation of the patients under treatment. It aims at multiplying causes of division amongst Catholics, and thus securing for itself many unconscious collaborators, in its work of destruction. Thus divided with regard to the supernatural order by the defection of so many from the religion of their ancestors, divided with regard to the natural order by the dynastic question, the ancient and noble French nation, so remarkable for its grasp of the objective order of the world, has become a number of floating molecules, "human dust" to use Taine's expression. In the midst of that "human dust," Masonry formed and forms, a solid block. Frenchmen could not imagine that any association could lie so consistently; hence the statement that Masonry did not concern itself with politics was accepted. Masonry was held to be either a special kind of society for mutual assistance or a group of pompous and boastful speakers for a body of lovers of banquets and good cheer; its true character was not known except to a few, whose warnings were to a great extent unheeded.

When once we realize that Masonry's programme is Naturalism and that the control of Masonry is largely in the hands of the leaders of the Jewish Nation, ever looking forward to a Natural Messias to come, and therefore a force ever seeking to disrupt the whole order based on the Supernatural Messias, Our Lord that is being attempted in all Catholic countries,. It is the struggle for and against the Kingship of Christ. The submission of Society to Our Lord continuing His mission in the Catholic Church must come back or Society will perish. . . .

308
posted on 07/20/2006 8:23:59 PM PDT
by pravknight
(Liberalism under the guise of magisterial teaching is still heresy)

"This March 2006 special edition of Chiesa Viva has been sent to the following traditional and conservative Catholic publications and amazingly they are afraid to reprint the story."

Maybe the traditional Catholic publications have more wisdom than the group which is using anti-Masonic disinformation as a wedge issue in an apparent attempt to to create a chism between the Catholic groups for some reason. Or maybe the traditional Catholic publications see this as one more attempt to resurrect the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion,.'

Judging from the many pages of the Chiesa Viva issue in question which are dedicated to an historical re-hash of the Protocols of Zion, I'd say the issue is an obvious attempt to certify the document as authentic.

I doubt if Chiasa Viva will be printing the issue in English and Im sure the traditional Catholic publications will give that anti-semitic, anti-Freemasonry nature of the issue a wide berth.

Chiasa Viva has some strange bedfellows. Anton Chaitkin, et al, which they source for much of the issue, which makes me wonder why you posted this on FR without being able to substantiate the Masonic nature of any of the pictures in the issue which this whole story is based upon.

Of course you know that Mr. Chaitkin is the co-author of the unofficial biography of George Bush, and bosum buddy of Lyndon RaRouche of the Schiller Institute.

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