dzoki wrote:By the way some years ago I pointed out in the discussion (probably here on DW) that Rangrig Dorje could not have been father of Aro lingma (the dates did not fit) and lo now they changed it to him being guru of her mother. They (Chogyam or his people) certainly do read on-line discussions. Well they can improve on their made up lineage history all they want, it still won´t make the lineage more authentic. Anyways this pile of manure is not something I want to stain my hands with. So I won´t post in this thread anymore.

I suggest, that if someone likes, he or she may check the Aro gTer webpage as it looked in 1998 thanks to

I went to a one day program with Ngak'chang Rinpoche and I found his teachings very clear examples of Dzogchen instruction and his personal presence incredibly powerful. Make of it what you will, but I really think people should avoid casting aspersions on teachers no matter their personal feelings. Unless you yourself are awakened how can you know which teachings and teachers are real and which are fake?

In the past, recent and distant, I've said many irresponsible things. Some of those things concerned the group & teacher under discussion now. It seems to me that I don't really know anything at all about Aro gTer, and consequently, I regret ever saying a word about them one way or the other. I should know better. May all live long and prosper.

One of my teachers was involved with the recognition of Steven Seagal as a tulku. That blows my mind, I don't know what to make of it. However I do not feel as if the samaya I have with my teacher requires that I accept Mr. Seagal's legitimacy as a Dharma anything. I prefer to ignore the issue.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Last edited by smcj on Tue May 27, 2014 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

My posts are for entertainment purposes only. Please don't take anything I say seriously unless you verify it with a real teacher first.

smcj wrote:One of my teachers was involved with the recognition of Steven Seagal as a tulku. That blows my mind, I don't know what to make of it. However I do not feel as if the samaya I have with my teacher requires that I accept Mr. Seagal's legitimacy as a Dharma anything. I prefer to ignore the issue.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

What makes you doubt his recognition ?

"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

smcj wrote:One of my teachers was involved with the recognition of Steven Seagal as a tulku. That blows my mind, I don't know what to make of it. However I do not feel as if the samaya I have with my teacher requires that I accept Mr. Seagal's legitimacy as a Dharma anything. I prefer to ignore the issue.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

What makes you doubt his recognition ?

His arrogance and behavior.

Now having said that, I believe there were some caveats when Penor R. penned his recognition letter. Something to the effect that recognition was not the same as endorsing his accomplishment. I don't remember exactly. I wasn't that interested in examining it.

If this digression continues we should start a new thread.

My posts are for entertainment purposes only. Please don't take anything I say seriously unless you verify it with a real teacher first.

Concerning the recognition of "Seagal Rinpoche," there is no problem, he's not teaching, but he doesengage in behind the scenes dharma activity. Howhe is in person is quite different from his professionalpersona and the roles he plays. H. H. had no expectationthat he would teach, only that he would benefit beings.

Personally I'd love it if he actually were a stealth tulku. It would take a deep seated judgmental/critical character defect of mine and blow it out of the water. But as I said, I prefer to ignore the subject.

Last edited by smcj on Tue May 27, 2014 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

My posts are for entertainment purposes only. Please don't take anything I say seriously unless you verify it with a real teacher first.

Vajraprajnakhadga wrote:I went to a one day program with Ngak'chang Rinpoche and I found his teachings very clear examples of Dzogchen instruction and his personal presence incredibly powerful. Make of it what you will, but I really think people should avoid casting aspersions on teachers no matter their personal feelings. Unless you yourself are awakened how can you know which teachings and teachers are real and which are fake?

Jikan wrote:In the past, recent and distant, I've said many irresponsible things. Some of those things concerned the group & teacher under discussion now. It seems to me that I don't really know anything at all about Aro gTer, and consequently, I regret ever saying a word about them one way or the other. I should know better. May all live long and prosper.

It looks like everybody has been drinking from that contaminated well... Anyone who has not ?As far as Dzogchen teachings are concerned, lineage is crucial. Aro lingma never existed, so there is no lineage in Aro.

I wouldn't worry too much Mutsuk, as I don't think anybody's rushing off to get white robes and cowboy hats and running away with the aro circus. Seems to me that some people are just apologizing for being overly judgemental and, perhaps, even needlessly cruel to those that should, in fact, be objects of our compassion. The world is filled with people that have been lead astray and it's highly doubtful that looking down on them and hurling insults is going to put any of them on the right track. It may cause them to become entrenched even deeper.

Vajraprajnakhadga wrote:I went to a one day program with Ngak'chang Rinpoche and I found his teachings very clear examples of Dzogchen instruction and his personal presence incredibly powerful. Make of it what you will, but I really think people should avoid casting aspersions on teachers no matter their personal feelings. Unless you yourself are awakened how can you know which teachings and teachers are real and which are fake?

Jikan wrote:In the past, recent and distant, I've said many irresponsible things. Some of those things concerned the group & teacher under discussion now. It seems to me that I don't really know anything at all about Aro gTer, and consequently, I regret ever saying a word about them one way or the other. I should know better. May all live long and prosper.

It looks like everybody has been drinking from that contaminated well... Anyone who has not ?As far as Dzogchen teachings are concerned, lineage is crucial. Aro lingma never existed, so there is no lineage in Aro.

And the source for your certainty is ....?

" My heart's in the Highlands my heart is not here.My heart's in the Highlandschasing the deer."

This was already discussed in the thread on contemporaneous gter-ston elsewhere here. My sources are masters like Nyoshul Khenpo (whom JLA asked about Aro), the arch-arch-grand-son of Rang-rig rdo rje whom I asked about Aro myself when I was in his house, etc. Ask all Nyingma masters and tibetologists, there where never any Lingma in the whole Nyingma history. The whole Aroter lineage is a lie.And what is the source of your certainty about Aro Lingma?

mutsuk wrote:This was already discussed in the thread on contemporaneous gter-ston elsewhere here. My sources are masters like Nyoshul Khenpo (whom JLA asked about Aro), the arch-arch-grand-son of Rang-rig rdo rje whom I asked about Aro myself when I was in his house, etc. Ask all Nyingma masters and tibetologists, there where never any Lingma in the whole Nyingma history. The whole Aroter lineage is a lie.And what is the source of your certainty about Aro Lingma?

mutsuk wrote:It was pretended that Aro Lingma was his daughter... Nyoshul Khenpo qualified the aro system of gter-rdzun and laughed because it's a gter-rdzun attributed to someone who never existed anyway!

Thanks. What's a gter-rdzun, I've never heard of that? Also, I think Aro Lingma's father is meant to be Rang-rig Togden not dorje.