You know two guys that committed suicide and it was caused by testosterone? I'm skeptical that the testosterone would have been the cause.

Not saying it was the sole cause, but both wives have reported that their husbands had recently started testosterone therapy a year or so prior to the suicide. That being said, they may have started the therapy due to an underlying depression. Correlation doesn't equate causation, and I'm aware of that.

I'm still skeptical, but I tend to be skeptical about most things. If it's too good to be true, then it likely is.

__________________In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.
- H. L. Mencken

It's the rage, now. I also know two different local dudes who committed suicide after getting on the shit. People are having kids later. Their kids get in high school/college and they start wanting to become "hip" again because they have more time on their hands to go out and hang with their wives, only they're nearing 50 years old. So they start getting testosterone in order to recapture their youth. While it may work for some, the results aren't always good.

No one kills themselves because of test. Jesus. As noted, there was probably some underlying depression but the amount of test these guys get on HRT is just enough to bring it to normal levels. I mean, I know guys shooting 3+ grams of test a week. Far as I know they are still alive.

Not saying it was the sole cause, but both wives have reported that their husbands had recently started testosterone therapy a year or so prior to the suicide. That being said, they may have started the therapy due to an underlying depression. Correlation doesn't equate causation, and I'm aware of that.

I'm still skeptical, but I tend to be skeptical about most things. If it's too good to be true, then it likely is.

I don't know what they were doing exactly, but I suppose I can see if they weren't being treated properly how that might happen. Some docs don't prescribe it to have a nice even level in your system, but rather highs and lows for example 100mg every 2 weeks is bad IMO. If the levels were on the decline after being high then I suppose how I can see it might be related. Going from 800 to 150 and back up and down isn't good.

No one kills themselves because of test. Jesus. As noted, there was probably some underlying depression but the amount of test these guys get on HRT is just enough to bring it to normal levels. I mean, I know guys shooting 3+ grams of test a week. Far as I know they are still alive.

Your anecdotal evidence of "I know a guy" doesn't outweight my "I know a guy." Much like with marijuana, I'm skeptical. I support legalization, but I don't see pot as some kind of cure-all that's going to solve all our problems like many of its fervent advocates preach. I also think that test has legitimate benefits for some people, but I don't think it's some kind of cure all for middle-aged men to feel like studs into their 70s like many of the test advocates preach.

__________________In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.
- H. L. Mencken

Your anecdotal evidence of "I know a guy" doesn't outweight my "I know a guy." Much like with marijuana, I'm skeptical. I support legalization, but I don't see pot as some kind of cure-all that's going to solve all our problems like many of its fervent advocates preach. I also think that test has legitimate benefits for some people, but I don't think it's some kind of cure all for middle-aged men to feel like studs into their 70s like many of the test advocates preach.

If they are low it will.

And I have like decade after decade of research to back my stance up actually. Those men killed themselves probably due to other reasons. I'm not sure how putting a hormone in your body that already exists, to a normal amount, would make you suicidal. Again, there had to be other underlying issues.

Agree totally on the marijuana part. Total for legalizing it, but mainly for the economy. Not because I think it has all these wonderful properties about it.

And I have like decade after decade of research to back my stance up actually. Those men killed themselves probably due to other reasons. I'm not sure how putting a hormone in your body that already exists, to a normal amount, would make you suicidal. Again, there had to be other underlying issues.

Agree totally on the marijuana part. Total for legalizing it, but mainly for the economy. Not because I think it has all these wonderful properties about it.

Here's the deal: doctors are prescribing test now just like they prescribe adderall. You pay some high dollars, pull up at a "clinic", where the parking lots if filled with high dollar japanese and european SUVs, pay a premium "consultation" fee, and you get the drug/hormone/supplement of your choice from benzos to stims to test to HGH.

We have tons of friends who do it for adderall and quite a few who do it for test. Their "diagnosis" ranges from adult ADHD, to need for weight loss (for waifish women), to adult depression.

It's just like when my friends in college used to make trips down to Mexico to the pharms down there to pick up benzos and opiates, except now you can do it right at your friendly neighborhood quack. It's not that I'm skeptical of the benefits of test, I'm skeptical of how its being used and all the societal/class bullshit that goes along with this method of drug dispensation. ****ers are getting locked up for life for slinging some weed on the street corner, but legal quacks are doling this stuff out to the rich under the aegis of the law. It's bullshit, and test has become part of that whole thing.

__________________In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.
- H. L. Mencken

Here's the deal: doctors are prescribing test now just like they prescribe adderall. You pay some high dollars, pull up at a "clinic", where the parking lots if filled with high dollar japanese and european SUVs, pay a premium "consultation" fee, and you get the drug/hormone/supplement of your choice from benzos to stims to test to HGH.

We have tons of friends who do it for adderall and quite a few who do it for test. Their "diagnosis" ranges from adult ADHD, to need for weight loss (for waifish women), to adult depression.

It's just like when my friends in college used to make trips down to Mexico to the pharms down there to pick up benzos and opiates, except now you can do it right at your friendly neighborhood quack. It's not that I'm skeptical of the benefits of test, I'm skeptical of how its being used and all the societal/class bullshit that goes along with this method of drug dispensation. ****ers are getting locked up for life for slinging some weed on the street corner, but legal quacks are doling this stuff out to the rich under the aegis of the law. It's bullshit, and test has become part of that whole thing.

Yeah but it's just test, and they charge a **** ton for it. No one is dying from test or knocking over liquor stores for money for it. So who cares?

So you want big brother to tell you what's good for you rather then leaving it up to people to do their own research and choose for themselves?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant when I said this:

Quote:

My only goal is for people to be correctly informed, and not believe whatever BS is printed on the bottle. Seek out further information. Look into studies that have been done. Look into studies that both support and criticize, and decide for yourself.

This argument reminds me of when people ridiculously blamed Chris Benoit's murder-suicide on steroids.

Yup. When he had a history of depression and other mental problems. I'm not saying the anabolics/androgenics HELPED (thought they can in some people with low test) but dude was wired to snap regardless. It's also assumed he may have been suffering from the same shit that caused Seau to kill himself.

That's fine. You think it works for you, and don't care about any placebo effect. That makes your position pretty clear.

You don't come across as smart as you think you do. I enjoy my workouts after using SM. I have no practical means of testing whether it is due a placebo effect or because of the stuff they put in it, nor do I have any real incentive at 40$ a bottle to seek out such a test. I enjoy my workouts more than when I had coffee beforehand (all other variables remained equal). It does not mean I entirely disregard scientific evidence when it is available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Fish

And it's ironic that you bring up testosterone supplements. That's one of the worst categories of misinformed supplements. At least you clarified it as supplementing with needles. That's at least slightly effective compared to the pill format.

It's not "ironic" (please procure a reputable dictionary). I didn't bring up testosterone supplements or "t booster" supplements or whatever, so your slab of quoted text that refutes the efficacy of those is useless. I said SUPPLEMENTING TESTOSTERONE with NEEDLES, or in other words, using anabolic steroids. If you think that process only provides "slight" gains, I don't know what else to tell you.

You don't come across as smart as you think you do. I enjoy my workouts after using SM. I have no practical means of testing whether it is due a placebo effect or because of the stuff they put in it, nor do I have any real incentive at 40$ a bottle to seek out such a test. I enjoy my workouts more than when I had coffee beforehand (all other variables remained equal). It does not mean I entirely disregard scientific evidence when it is available.

It's not "ironic" (please procure a reputable dictionary). I didn't bring up testosterone supplements or "t booster" supplements or whatever, so your slab of quoted text that refutes the efficacy of those is useless. I said SUPPLEMENTING TESTOSTERONE with NEEDLES, or in other words, using anabolic steroids. If you think that process only provides "slight" gains, I don't know what else to tell you.

I just refuse to debate something with someone who has no clue what he is talking about and won't acknowledge anything as being true unless he read it from a ****ing government sponsored website or another only if it confirms that everything is a placebo. For those who have taken roids like myself many times over decades I think I got a really good feel for knowing what is working and what isn't. I don't need somebody who is an expert at reading articles from supposed experts who has no personal experience at all coming and telling me I am just imagining things and giving me his flipping pretentious attitude. **** your science. I have no idea why fish does this, he is way to smart to go down that road. He knows all about the dosing of C but doesn't know the first thing about the benefits? Give me a flippen break. Dude just feels the need to make other people feel stupid for whatever reason. Lets check the list, bigger, stonger, leaner and I got zits on my ass like when I was 16, IT MUST BE MY ****ING IMAGINATION.

I hadn't heard of it either. Guy I see at happy hour fairly regularly; our kids go to the same school. Commercial real estate developer; successful dude. Over general drunk talk at the bar a couple months ago he mentioned he had low testosterone and was having these time release testosterone pellets shot into his ass. Saw him again last week, he said he was really happy with the procedure. Said he felt a lot more energy and had lead in his pencil again.
I called bullshit. We looked it up on my phone, sure enough there it is still in my search history. Stuff is called testopel.

Now I hear talk of testosterone here, second time in a week I've heard people talking about it. Just wondering it's the same substance, just administered differently or if the weight lifters use something else.

They have that same stuff for cattle and it's been used for years. Synovex H has testosterone propionate and Finaplix has trenbolone acetate. FYI, both types of pellets can be broken down and processed into human consumable steroids.

It was recommended to me for muscle recovery (by way of better sleep at night). Nearly every review of it talks about awesome sleep. Check it out.

Well I had insomia bad for months then one day I was like imma sleep in my boxers then i shit u not my insomnia went away. Now im sleeping 8hours like a champ now. It went away from one day to the next lol

I was sleeping lime 2-3 hours a day prior to that for Like 3 months straight. All it took was sleeping in my boxers lol