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As Dephender said, at least the episodes are airing despite some continuity placements.

No different than Holiday Hi-Jynx being aired later with Ash having a Charmander again.

Agreed, and if you saw my reply earlier. Depending on how differently it's been edited i'll probably just view it as BW023/24.

Holiday Hi-Jynx was a standalone episode though and wasn't retconned, it was just place at a later time despite the events that had happened before. This makes it sound like they will be worked into the current storyline meaning TR will have white uniforms, Ash's Team will have changed etc.

@Dephender's long post: I think you're dead-on in everything you said. That's very likely the ultimate reason for the long delay.

That, and finding an appropriate point to air them that TPCI would agree with, seeing as their skipping forced TPCI to make that edit to BW022 covering up the plot hole. I don't think TPCI wanted TV Tokyo just airing them out of nowhere between unrelated episodes, as that would end up being how it went in the dub too, thus confusing many dub viewers.

One slip-up, though:

Originally Posted by Dephender

We know that episodes go into production long before they air - 8 months+.

6 months+, actually. That's what was said. Still, the full plans for the entire initial story arc, with TR vs. TP as the conclusion, would have been made before BW even aired.

Originally Posted by The Great Butler

I truly don't believe that the opening is indicating anything about the episodes. It's just a reference.

To reference episodes that were cancelled is a fool's move, and contradicts the claims of those who believe they're cancelled that the studio "wants people to forget about them." Plus, Liepard is seen again toward the end of the OP, being beaten by the Looker/TRio team. All the other Plasma Pokemon in the OP (the ones controlled by Colress) are going to be in the show, so logically, so will Liepard. And what better way to introduce it than through those episodes that are being referenced in it's first scene on the OP? Makes perfect sense to me.

Originally Posted by Haunter227

Actually, I heard about the source too but never saw anything about it, link/source please?

Here is the source: it's a French site and the likely TPCI guy commenting is Goltik. And as for why he's likely in TPCI, it's worth noting is that he didn't even start commenting by talking about the two-parter; he actually first said something that in hindsight was absolutely correct: that the Unova League is going to be in Season 16 of the dub, not Season 15, and that Best Wishes will end in 2013. To know both of these waaay ahead of time before they became public knowledge, and said with such certainty, indicates he's an inside guy.

And before anyone says anything, there is a glitch on the site that always makes the comments' dates read the current month. All comments were actually made in February 2012.

BTW, it's also interesting that a Latin American source said the same basic thing a week prior, but in less detail than Goltik did (they said the episodes "come with modifications", whereas Goltik went the whole hog and directly compared them to the fishing episode, noting that the scenario / placement was changed.)

This makes it sound like they will be worked into the current storyline meaning TR will have white uniforms, Ash's Team will have changed etc

That's assuming he used any members of his team aside from Pikachu in the two-parter to begin with. He very well may not have.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Q1 is usually January-March. That's early 2013.

Correct. Note that Goltik also said "Late 2012" as a possibility. In fact, it really never was one, but "Season 16" started in Japan in Q4 and, had there not been some weekly breaks that were not anticipated back when these comments were made, Episode N could have started in December as well. This makes sense: if Goltik is with TPCI and thus not one of the actual Japanese production team members, then he doesn't know the exact ordering of the episodes in "Season 16", just the content (The Unova League, Episode N and the two-parter, etc.) Hence, his need to speculate Late 2012 in additon to early 2013.

The last few weeks I was getting to the stage of "ok were getting a new TR vs TP plot and it might be better than the skipped 2 parter" But now Im a bit excited again to think were getting at least a modified version of it soon. I agree there is no point showing a scene based of the 2 parter if we aren't getting something to do with it. If we had some sort of official word either way it would to some degree stop the arguments over this. Do we know when that Japan Pokemon magazine gets released this month? It might have something since it featured info on Colress and Looker last month way before the episode title came out.

Friend Code for Pokemon Y: 1521-2881-0277 PM me if you want to battle or trade

If we had some sort of official word either way it would to some degree stop the arguments over this.

I agree, and I say we patiently wait out the next three weeks, as they're the most likely for, at any given time, confirmation to occur, whether online, in a magazine, or in the show.

I should point out that the old TR vs. TP trailer was removed from Youtube and blocked from being reuploaded back in November. This makes me wonder if perhaps a modified trailer for the modified version will be coming out soon. The text at the end of the trailer read "coming in March"...at this point, that might just end up being kept intact! We will just have to see....

Sure we already know TR is hacking into Plasma's computers in a few weeks. That's bound to lead to some confrontation between both groups whether its the 2 parter or something like it at least. I doubt they're teaming up with Looker straight away. Plus why team up with him if TR is still an active organization that he would see as just as dangerous as Plasma?

Friend Code for Pokemon Y: 1521-2881-0277 PM me if you want to battle or trade

The scene where Liepard is bombing the s*** out of a building most likely takes place in Black City which is a large city that can take the place of Castelia City.

The TR VS TP episodes are gone forever, but the writers will most likely just re-use animations like Jesse shooting s*** up and Liepard doing the same for the new episodes like they did with the Operation Tempest episodes.

Assuming they do air a modified version of the TR vs TP episodes soon, I still think it's damn shame we'll never know what the conclusion would be from the original TR vs TP episodes.
I mean what happened to Pierce? What were the writers originally planning to do with TP? I guess we'll never know

Assuming they do air a modified version of the TR vs TP episodes soon, I still think it's damn shame we'll never know what the conclusion would be from the original TR vs TP episodes. I mean what happened to Pierce? What were the writers originally planning to do with TP? I guess we'll never know

1. It'll probably be very easy to guess what the conclusion was in the original from watching a modified version.

2. Pierce would almost definately still be in the modified version. He'd be extremely difficult to animate around.

3. The writers most likely never HAD any "original plans" for TP that got scrapped; as Dephender said, they were always waiting on B2W2 before deciding how to do the Plasma plot.

Originally Posted by nuzamaki90

The TR VS TP episodes are gone forever

Do you have a source for that claim?

Originally Posted by Venusaur Master

Yeah I cant see the desert resort portion returning

The desert resort portion would be easy to return; did you notice how much wasteland there is prior to the White Ruins on that map in the recent episode?

Originally Posted by Akuroma

In the dub, I think they'll just do a flashback of it and air the two-parter before Neo Team Plasma is introduced.

That'd be nice and all, but then what the heck would be the point of Neo Team Plasma in the helicopter with Liepard in the OP?

That'd be nice and all, but then what the heck would be the point of Neo Team Plasma in the helicopter with Liepard in the OP?

I thought they were just attacking the building to free the Genesect; unless I'm wrong, and they were truly trashing Team Rocket's party, which could be another reason to believe that they edited the whole two-parter which is now in the new opening. Maybe it's entirely a new plot?

To reference episodes that were cancelled is a fool's move, and contradicts the claims of those who believe they're cancelled that the studio "wants people to forget about them." Plus, Liepard is seen again toward the end of the OP, being beaten by the Looker/TRio team. All the other Plasma Pokemon in the OP (the ones controlled by Colress) are going to be in the show, so logically, so will Liepard. And what better way to introduce it than through those episodes that are being referenced in it's first scene on the OP? Makes perfect sense to me.

Liepard is a signature Pokemon of Team Plasma, so it being present doesn't really mean much for any specific scenario.

Originally Posted by Venusaur Master

Sure we already know TR is hacking into Plasma's computers in a few weeks. That's bound to lead to some confrontation between both groups whether its the 2 parter or something like it at least.

We don't even know if Team Rocket actually escapes with the data or not. Let's see if Colress and Team Plasma don't run them down right then and there first.

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Even after seeing Plasma debut officially now, Im really 50/50 on whats gonna happen with this 2 parter. We know were getting close to Castelia is it too early to get a hint yet other than the opening?

Friend Code for Pokemon Y: 1521-2881-0277 PM me if you want to battle or trade

Even after seeing Plasma debut officially now, Im really 50/50 on whats gonna happen with this 2 parter. We know were getting close to Castelia is it too early to get a hint yet other than the opening?

I'd put... 75% odds on new episodes airing that merely recycle a lot of footage. Too many inexplicable moves would have to be made to simply just retcon the original episodes: the return of Pierce, Dr. Zager and Giovanni with no explanation, the trio going back to doing serious missions instead of what we see now, bringing the Meteonite back up with no explanation, excluding N and Colress (and possibly even Ghetsis) from the story, all on top of the existing necessary retcons such as Krokorok and the Plasma Grunts.

There will be a Team Rocket VS. Team Plasma episode or episodes, but don't count on it being what was supposed to have aired. Recycled footage does not the same episode make.

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Most Recent: 18: Winter of Discontent
Next: The Weight of the World (Part 1)