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Back when roaming used to be a thing wormholes were great, got back home via them so many times when the Blob(TM) camped the fleet in a dead-end.

The death of roaming was the death of eve. Blob up and sit on titan for an hour or two is AIDS

Roaming stopped being popular because there's less bad people around. Roaming, you generally catch bad players. I've done about 1k kills in small gang warfare or solo roaming, when you catch less and less because there's things like intel channels or EFT that got popular you stop doing it because flying around for 2h not getting shit or just very few small fish is only fun for so long.

Roaming was fun for good players because they cared about optimizing fittings and tryharded enough that it was easy to pwn noobs that didn't even know what a fitting tool or nanohacs were.

Back when roaming used to be a thing wormholes were great, got back home via them so many times when the Blob(TM) camped the fleet in a dead-end.

The death of roaming was the death of eve. Blob up and sit on titan for an hour or two is AIDS

Roaming stopped being popular because there's less bad people around. Roaming, you generally catch bad players. I've done about 1k kills in small gang warfare or solo roaming, when you catch less and less because there's things like intel channels or EFT that got popular you stop doing it because flying around for 2h not getting shit or just very few small fish is only fun for so long.

Roaming was fun for good players because they cared about optimizing fittings and tryharded enough that it was easy to pwn noobs that didn't even know what a fitting tool or nanohacs were.

Honestly, I think this is the biggest issue all around. There are very few people in this game who are still willing and able to be dumb. Yes, you get the occasional ALOD or whatever, but for the most part a few smart people figure stuff out, then everyone just copies what they do. This applies from solo up to coalition sov level warfare. Since the dumb little fish are so few and far between now the smarter/bigger fish are too scared to do things they used to do.

We roamed around syndicate loads when we were the bad ones. Bumped into loads of other bads too. It was great. We did it for the fun of the fight. And the more elite smaller gangs would come kill us. For the same reason. Bads nowadays sit around waiting, and might camp a gate but wouldn't actually jump it.

If you think the game isn't filled with dumb players you've not been paying attention to the blob fleets

We roamed around syndicate loads when we were the bad ones. Bumped into loads of other bads too. It was great. We did it for the fun of the fight. And the more elite smaller gangs would come kill us. For the same reason. Bads nowadays sit around waiting, and might camp a gate but wouldn't actually jump it.

If you think the game isn't filled with dumb players you've not been paying attention to the blob fleets

2008 bads are a lot worse tbqh. No eft, no doctrine no fitting optimization "bring a BS that can shoot 200km" kinda bad.

So basically this loops round to what Virt was saying earlier, the CCP need to reintroduce obscurity to the game in order to allow bads to be the bads that are so fundamentally needed for all the playstyles, from sov to trusolo

So basically this loops round to what Virt was saying earlier, the CCP need to reintroduce obscurity to the game in order to allow bads to be the bads that are so fundamentally needed for all the playstyles, from sov to trusolo

Im strictly blaming the vets who all band up, get lazy and refuse to lose ships to taking a bit of a gamble. Newbies blobbing up don't know any better. We have some shit leaders right now

Honestly, I think this is the biggest issue all around. There are very few people in this game who are still willing and able to be dumb. Yes, you get the occasional ALOD or whatever, but for the most part a few smart people figure stuff out, then everyone just copies what they do. This applies from solo up to coalition sov level warfare. Since the dumb little fish are so few and far between now the smarter/bigger fish are too scared to do things they used to do.

So basically this loops round to what Virt was saying earlier, the CCP need to reintroduce obscurity to the game in order to allow bads to be the bads that are so fundamentally needed for all the playstyles, from sov to trusolo

Well, things can be a lot better if players had to actually pilot their own ship in fights. Having a couple hundred people do exactly what a fleet commander tells you, fly exactly what they want with the exact fit and everyone shoot the same guy is terrible for the game. Great for a handful of good players who can control swaths of bad players on strings like a puppet master. As soon as people have to start being their own person, you will get tons of fun and crazy fights. But you won't hear any large alliance leadership pushing for that. They want to keep the mindless drones just that - mindless.

So basically this loops round to what Virt was saying earlier, the CCP need to reintroduce obscurity to the game in order to allow bads to be the bads that are so fundamentally needed for all the playstyles, from sov to trusolo

Well, things can be a lot better if players had to actually pilot their own ship in fights. Having a couple hundred people do exactly what a fleet commander tells you, fly exactly what they want with the exact fit and everyone shoot the same guy is terrible for the game. Great for a handful of good players who can control swaths of bad players on strings like a puppet master. As soon as people have to start being their own person, you will get tons of fun and crazy fights. But you won't hear any large alliance leadership pushing for that. They want to keep the mindless drones just that - mindless.

comments like this is what got us aegis sov.

If you want manual piloting just stay in small scale, thats where the more competent pilots are. Dont impose a gameplay style on everyone because you'd think it'd be fun. Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.

Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.

I am inclined to agree with this.

I would qualify myself as a F1 pusher with a basic understanding of what goes on around me and no more. I don't want to be more, because I play this game for fun and relaxation. I don't envy our FC's who have to be on 3 different comms and god knows how many discords, chat channels etc. to coordinate stuff while herding one or more bag of kittens that is the fleet. I am very grateful that they do it, though.

Since we went back on mini deployment to Syndicate our main content driver (as always) has been pos again. CCP's about to remove them. I don't know what remains after the removal of them to have real and regular engagements about. And no, engaging Citadels in their current form ain't exactly a fun thing to do. But I am repeating myself here.

If you want manual piloting just stay in small scale, thats where the more competent pilots are. Dont impose a gameplay style on everyone because you'd think it'd be fun. Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.

Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.

I am inclined to agree with this.

I would qualify myself as a F1 pusher with a basic understanding of what goes on around me and no more. I don't want to be more, because I play this game for fun and relaxation. I don't envy our FC's who have to be on 3 different comms and god knows how many discords, chat channels etc. to coordinate stuff while herding one or more bag of kittens that is the fleet. I am very grateful that they do it, though.

Since we went back on mini deployment to Syndicate our main content driver (as always) has been pos again. CCP's about to remove them. I don't know what remains after the removal of them to have real and regular engagements about. And no, engaging Citadels in their current form ain't exactly a fun thing to do. But I am repeating myself here.

this so much.

pos is the only bastion of fun and low effort content (for med+ groups). If they have monetary value, its an incentive for both attacker and defender to care and they require manageable effort and vulnerability by the attacker. Both sides have to somewhat commit, i.e fight or blueball but not chasing ecm bursting ceptors around or falcons or w/e. Also, both the attacker and defender have ways to game the timer outcome with alarm clocking or delaying the ref timer etc etc.

Pos are amazing fight objectives, unfortunately managing them and setting them up is worse than aids. Making a smart money moon system, that doesnt put 80% of a resource in one corner of the map +price cap via alchemy is probably the bestest short term solution to help incentivize conflict on all scales. Unfortunately all the gutmenschen think its worse than aids because they're unable to see past the flaws of old systems of the sort.

White picket fences. POS itself won't go for quite a while yet. And once they do, you are supposed to do the same around raitaru and astrahus setups. Cause of "but it has monetary and emotional value so it's the same and asset safety saves the day anyways with a touch of old style haters gonna hate anyways so be fearless and fucking ignore it". Pos for moon mining you're supposed to be happy about their disappearance because the idea is that you get miners to farm for isk. And if lowsec natives stop sucking those tits it's apparently a bonus for an overheating economy, and if they innovate and become the exact same thing as in null it's also fine because it creates more segregation (wtf) while providing yet more room for maturing alpha's to go and play in - while the human demographics actually decreases but alright.

It's that New Eden can't get tourists from outside, or I'd start to wonder about certain developmental parallels with Iceland increasingly relying on shiny & tourism and half expect the virtual version to follow the same road. But hey, maybe CCP can sell Zoo style pay-per-view to watch those weird eve players with betting & sponsorships like gladiators. :P

Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.

Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.

Oh no, I like the idea. It's the thinking behind the approach that I maintain doubts. Don't confuse my perspective on that "fuck your fear & lazy ass and undock" niche (good) with the general development of copypasta organisations throughout New Eden (not so good).

Let me put it this way, what are the differences these days - besides the marketing - between player organisations. There's a tier of professionalism, one of aptitude, another of finance, one of logistics, but that is about it. Methodology, focus, mentality, more and more gearing towards the same easily managed little kingdoms. Which is fine, if this is what CCP wants, but that will mean that they have to start working towards replacing engines of destructive behaviour, with engines of consumptive behaviour. Oh dear, every change of the past two years has carried an element of that :-)

I know, it's not an easy question to answer, because people always first react from their own perspective, which is by default subjective and full of blind spots. Maybe it is me, but I don't really see real empire builders anymore, I don't see miners with pitchforks or wannabee socialists or bleeding heart roaming trailer trash out there. Yes, everyone has a carefully constructed identity, flag, story, but that's not the same thing. Before you say it, yes, a big part of that comes down to conscious choice of players and their organisations. A big part of that is cumulative development really. But increasingly there's less push to do different things, more push to stay within well stratified niches based on mechanical design.

I know, obscurity, room to be bad, room for doing stuff where CCP has to follow players rather than preemptively curb & distract them. It all just strikes me as a packaging process of readily consumable quick fixes with cheap marketing for the bling and zero story.

Fun thing doing the Alpha rounds today. Most common feedback: so wtf is the Agency? What's the story? Where's the tale?
Well, there is none. Just do it. Be a good little ST:O player and repeat the same without meaning or achieving much of anything until you see blue in the face :P

Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.

It wouldn't be a problem per se, but mining is probably the worst ACTIVITY I've ever seen in any online game and I played that shitty air buccaneers game. Also your argument is largely invalid with phoebe JR restrictions. In the past, yes PL owned like 80% of lowsec moons because of superblob. In 2017 thats not possible anymore, that alone is reason to try it again. Can always split between active/passive but I wouldn't want such a valid alliance income to be restricted to the dullest pve activity ever tbqh.

IMHO there is room for passive moon mining, because it benefits pvp outfits over ~blob outfits~ (test, goons, whoever is large and has a large quantity of bears). PvP outfits (like BL) are much more prone to drama and conflict, something we need more of not less. In any case, the most important thing is to not lock it behind the horribleness that are citadels in its current state.

Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.

Oh no, I like the idea. It's the thinking behind the approach that I maintain doubts. Don't confuse my perspective on that "fuck your fear & lazy ass and undock" niche (good) with the general development of copypasta organisations throughout New Eden (not so good).

Let me put it this way, what are the differences these days - besides the marketing - between player organisations. There's a tier of professionalism, one of aptitude, another of finance, one of logistics, but that is about it. Methodology, focus, mentality, more and more gearing towards the same easily managed little kingdoms. Which is fine, if this is what CCP wants, but that will mean that they have to start working towards replacing engines of destructive behaviour, with engines of consumptive behaviour. Oh dear, every change of the past two years has carried an element of that :-)

I disagree a lot. Alliances might look the same to the outside, i.e doctrines and sov management and infrastructure etc etc, but there's quite a bit of cultural differences across the board. Groups adapting to what works is only a natural and ever existing dynamic, but letme tell you from personal experience there's fairly huge operational differences between groups. I've gotten to know a lot of alliances and their procedures over the years, especially when coordinating our spies... there's massive differences indeed. I'd write some shit down but I'm guessing everyone who's been in more than 1 group can attest to that.

Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.

Oh no, I like the idea. It's the thinking behind the approach that I maintain doubts. Don't confuse my perspective on that "fuck your fear & lazy ass and undock" niche (good) with the general development of copypasta organisations throughout New Eden (not so good).

Let me put it this way, what are the differences these days - besides the marketing - between player organisations. There's a tier of professionalism, one of aptitude, another of finance, one of logistics, but that is about it. Methodology, focus, mentality, more and more gearing towards the same easily managed little kingdoms. Which is fine, if this is what CCP wants, but that will mean that they have to start working towards replacing engines of destructive behaviour, with engines of consumptive behaviour. Oh dear, every change of the past two years has carried an element of that :-)

I disagree a lot. Alliances might look the same to the outside, i.e doctrines and sov management and infrastructure etc etc, but there's quite a bit of cultural differences across the board. Groups adapting to what works is only a natural and ever existing dynamic, but letme tell you from personal experience there's fairly huge operational differences between groups. I've gotten to know a lot of alliances and their procedures over the years, especially when coordinating our spies... there's massive differences indeed. I'd write some shit down but I'm guessing everyone who's been in more than 1 group can attest to that.

Dunno. I'm in most, but aside of brand / identity / marketing I see virtually no real differences. Sure, there's remnants of cumulative and composed background, but that's where things come from. Not where it is, or even where it is going.

Let me put it this way, a big forte of eve is found in its emphasis on specialisation and diversification. Except where it comes to the geo-economics, except where it comes to the triggers for organisational development. Everything is geared towards making everything the same.

Roaming stopped being popular because there's less bad people around. Roaming, you generally catch bad players. I've done about 1k kills in small gang warfare or solo roaming, when you catch less and less because there's things like intel channels or EFT that got popular you stop doing it because flying around for 2h not getting shit or just very few small fish is only fun for so long.

Roaming was fun for good players because they cared about optimizing fittings and tryharded enough that it was easy to pwn noobs that didn't even know what a fitting tool or nanohacs were.