The raid changes are shit. Watch the drama erupt. I guarantee you I'm not getting a spot in these new cut-down raid groups of 25 due to my timezone alone. I like the 40-man dynamic as it is argh

PVP system sucks cock though so any change is welcome.

People really do overestimate how 'hardcore' endgame WoW is. I raid once on saturday and once every 2nd wednesday and that's it, and I'm geared to the moon. There are those, yeah, who play every single night. They tend to break up and splinter and form into a 'different' guild every month :P

Having not been in any major end game raids I could be totally off base, but...those guilds that get 40mans going pretty regularly.....wouldnt they be able to snag 10 more guys (which....c'mon is NOT that hard) and run two raids at the same time? Why waste so much time in a 40man for ONE specific item when two particular items can be yielded from two instance runs?

The raid changes are shit. Watch the drama erupt. I guarantee you I'm not getting a spot in these new cut-down raid groups of 25 due to my timezone alone. I like the 40-man dynamic as it is argh

People really do overestimate how 'hardcore' endgame WoW is. I raid once on saturday and once every 2nd wednesday and that's it, and I'm geared to the moon. There are those, yeah, who play every single night. They tend to break up and splinter and form into a 'different' guild every month :P

I don't know about how big your guild is, but why not recruit more and go at it in two groups? It seems daunting and some people would be offended by being put on the "B team", but it's still raiding.

I know in many of the guilds I've been in/been asked to join, it seems like raiding once or twice a week to get loot is impossible. Some guilds it may work for and i'm glad that your guild does (having a life + still being able to raid is win/win). But most of the ones I've seen I just don't see how that works. Most want a decent raid attendance (if they're any good at least) and even if they don't, it's all about DKP. I don't know how you can get more than one or two pieces per month if you're only raiding once or twice a week. It just seems like most would have more DKP than you. I suppose if you have a very low turnover rate in the guild, that would work in your favor. I dunno. just my 2 cents.

And as far as the "x class will be ruined", I can see why some people may think that. Some people may take even less of a class, but overall there should be more groups out there so I don't know if i agree with that.

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Having not been in any major end game raids I could be totally off base, but...those guilds that get 40mans going pretty regularly.....wouldnt they be able to snag 10 more guys (which....c'mon is NOT that hard) and run two raids at the same time? Why waste so much time in a 40man for ONE specific item when two particular items can be yielded from two instance runs?

Yeah they could. Most of the major guilds I've seen talk about this are just afraid that something like "Raid B doesn't have enough tanks and raid A doesn't have enough healers, so take healers from raid A." Or something along those lines. They're just afraid raid B will continuely get the shaft if there aren't enough people on to form a proper raid.

The biggest problem with multiple raid groups is going to be lockout. If the raid ID lockout system is remotely similar to the one in place now, you might as well just form two separate guilds and create a custom channel to chat between them. While a few guilds do it successfully now, the logistics just aren't pretty. You'll end up needing very hardcore attendance caps to keep two groups running, or end up recruiting so many 'stand-bys' that bad vibes are bound to happen. Plus, if you're in a guild where you actually like almost all 40 regular raiders, if you try to mix up the raid groups every week to keep everyone in contact with each other, it'll be a lot of learning every encounter twice.

People really do overestimate how 'hardcore' endgame WoW is. I raid once on saturday and once every 2nd wednesday and that's it, and I'm geared to the moon. There are those, yeah, who play every single night. They tend to break up and splinter and form into a 'different' guild every month :P

Yes, which is precisely why I have zero sympathy for the elitist raid noobs. By their definition that since they spend say 20 hours a week raiding, they deserve to get epics while I, spending say 80 hours a week playing the game doing everything but 40 man raids don't. Honestly, I just don't care. I'm looking forward to the fact I'll get to play some instances where I can get major upgrades in scenarios I want to play in rather than be forced to play in.

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The biggest problem with multiple raid groups is going to be lockout. If the raid ID lockout system is remotely similar to the one in place now, you might as well just form two separate guilds and create a custom channel to chat between them. While a few guilds do it successfully now, the logistics just aren't pretty. You'll end up needing very hardcore attendance caps to keep two groups running, or end up recruiting so many 'stand-bys' that bad vibes are bound to happen. Plus, if you're in a guild where you actually like almost all 40 regular raiders, if you try to mix up the raid groups every week to keep everyone in contact with each other, it'll be a lot of learning every encounter twice.

Good points. I forgot about the lock-out system. That would indeed stop this from happening unless the guild was incredibly organized... but at that point you almost might as well create two guilds and a custom chat channel, like you said.

IMO, this shit should have been done long time ago. I can see why some people are bitching now, but I wonder how big of a deal this would of been (if any) if this was implented at the game's launch.

Probably not much. And if there was serious demand for over 25-man content, that could be added. Much easier to scale numbers up after two years than scale them down after two years, especially since any serious progression in AQ40/Naxx requires that you've already cut the 15 AFK Autoattackers from your old MC group and have over 40 fairly attentive and competent players.