UPDATE OCTOBER 8, 2012 20 UTC (3 p.m. CDT) A major outburst of Draconid meteors apparently began at 16 UTC on October 8, 2012, seen via radar in Canada, where it was still daylight. Bill Cooke of NASA’ Meteoroid Environment Office told SpaceWeather.com:Radar rates are at 1,000 meteors per hour. This is greater than last year’s outburst, and five times the 2005 level.

Because radars are sensitive to very small meteoroids, there is no guarantee that this radar outburst will translate into meteors visible to the human eye. On the other hand, a brilliant display could be in progress. The only way to know is to go outside and look.

There’s another chance tonight (October 8) to see meteors in this year’s Draconid meteor shower. In most years, this hard-to-predict shower doesn’t offer much more than a handful of languid meteors per hour. Last year – in 2011 – the numbers soared into the hundreds. Now we have a 2012 outburst as well, despite the fact that no elevated meteor numbers were forecast for this year. You’ll definitely want a dark sky – and you should watch in the evening hours when the moon is still down (tonight’s last quarter moon rises in the middle of the night).

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red DRAGON with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.His tail SWEPT A THIRD OF THE STARS FROM THE SKY AND FLUNG THEM TO EARTH." Revelation 12:3

R.H. Allen adds that; "the conclusion of the verse [Rev. 12:4] "did cast them to the earth," would show a possible reference to meteors."6 This is the earliest reference in print I have found that ties a potential Meteor shower to this section of Revelation 12. This Meteor shower that originates from the tail of Draco, the cast down dragon, is linked to its parent comet, known today as the Giacobini-Zinner Comet.

FROM SPACEWEATHER: [link to www.spaceweather.com] An outburst of more than 1000 meteors per hour on Oct. 8th is subsiding now. The Canadian Meteor Orbit Radar (CMOR) detected the surge in activity around 16:00 UT as Earth was passing through a network of debris streams from comet 21P/Giacobini-Zinner, source of the annual Draconid meteor shower. The outburst appears to have been caused by a filament of comet dust shed by Giacobini-Zinner in the year 1959. "This event follows in the grand tradition of short, intense Draconid outbursts," says Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office. Visual reports of the outburst are sparse, which suggests it was faint--i.e, better seen by a radar than by the human eye. Stay tuned for updates. [CMOR radar data] [sky map] [Submit: reports or photos]

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21

"On the evening of October 8th, debris from the Periodic Comet 21P/ Giacobini-Zinner may provide a stunning sky show. The Giacobinid Meteor shower produced two of the greatest Meteor displays seen in this century in 1933 and 1946. Lesser showers arrived in 1926, 1952, and 1985… Unlike most Meteor showers, the Giacobinids are at their best in the evening rather than after midnight. Their radiant is in the tail of the Constellation Draco. This point is highest right after dark at mid-northern latitudes; it moves lower throughout the night and is near the horizon by dawn."12

This is a key because of the signs in Virgo at sunset on 9-11-3BC, marking the birth of the promised seed occurred at the same time that these meteors were falling from the sky, signifying the casting down of the dragon from his former place of honor. This also fulfills the details in the celestial prelude of signs from 7–5 BC.

The Astronomy of the ancient Mayan civilization also holds some fascinating keys regarding the star Eta Draconis. Dr. Marian Hatch, an expert on the Maya Serpent Calendar, made some tantalizing connections between the orientation of the serpents on this amazingly detailed calendar, and the positions of the Constellation Draco, in the northern skies..

The Mayan Calendar associated spirits with each calendar day, which are pictured inside each circle. In this way the temporal serpent exerted his influence on each day of the year, along with anyone who followed the Astrology of this system. This symbol would also carry over to the tropical and sidereal years, along with the precessional cycle itself.

In this way the dragon was seen as the Time Lord, as is the case in many cultures that utilize the dragon symbol in their mythology. As a result of the former dominion of his first estate, Lucifer as the angel of light, provided a standard upon which these temporal cycles could be differentiated in their various celestial aspects.

Lucifer was enthroned at the anniversary of Creation on Tishri 1, going back to the First Heavens and Earth and as we have seen in the Celestial Prelude, his demise was prophesied in the stars on the same day! As the serpent calendar of the Maya shows, Eta Draconis gave the benchmark by which both the tropical and sidereal years, were contrasted, along with the effect of precession on the other stars of heaven.

This not only symbolizes Lucifer’s original domain as the angel of light, but it also exhibits the Mayan awareness of the cycle of the precession of the equinoxes going back to at least 1800 BC. Thus, as the Eta-Draconid Meteor shower ran concurrent with the birth of the promised seed, as shown in the sign of Virgo on September 11th, 3 BC.

They provide a powerful witness to the fall of the dragon. It was this Meteor shower that depicted the celestial casting down of the dragon and his minions dramatically for all time.

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21

At nightfall, you might also try to find the two brightest stars in the constellation Draco the Dragon, in order to gaze into the Dragon’s flaming eyes and to behold the radiant point of the Draconid meteor shower.

You don’t have to identify the radiant point in order to watch the Draconids or any meteor shower. Assuming the radiant is above your horizon, the meteors will streak all over the sky. For northerly latitudes, the radiant point of the Draconid shower – in the northern constellation Draco – is above the horizon all night.

However, if you trace the paths of the Draconid meteors backward, they appear to radiate from the Dragon’s fiery mouth.

You don’t need to identify the stars of Draco the Dragon to see the slow-moving Draconid meteors. Still, identifying a meteor shower radiant point is fun. The Dragon’s two brightest stars – Eltanin and Rastaban – are near the radiant point for the Draconids. These stars represent the Dragon’s eyes....

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21

At nightfall, you might also try to find the two brightest stars in the constellation Draco the Dragon, in order to gaze into the Dragon’s flaming eyes and to behold the radiant point of the Draconid meteor shower.Revelation 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.

You don’t have to identify the radiant point in order to watch the Draconids or any meteor shower. Assuming the radiant is above your horizon, the meteors will streak all over the sky. For northerly latitudes, the radiant point of the Draconid shower – in the northern constellation Draco – is above the horizon all night. THE DEVIL IS FALLEN

The devil is also a fallen being, as Jesus taught in John 8:44

However, if you trace the paths of the Draconid meteors backward, they appear to radiate from the Dragon’s fiery mouth. REVELATION 16:13-Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

You don’t need to identify the stars of Draco the Dragon to see the slow-moving Draconid meteors. Still, identifying a meteor shower radiant point is fun. The Dragon’s two brightest stars – Eltanin and Rastaban – are near the radiant point for the Draconids. These stars represent the Dragon’s eyes....

Quoting: christian

Rastaban (17h29m.3 +52° 20') means the "head of the snake." Arabian lore calls Rastaban and Eltanin the Dragon's eyes. Rastaban has a magnitude of 2.78 and is a class G2 white giant, about 400 light years distant. Rastaban is a binary system with the companion being 11.5 magnitude.

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21

UPDATE OCTOBER 8, 2012 20 UTC (3 p.m. CDT) A major outburst of Draconid meteors apparently began at 16 UTC on October 8, 2012, seen via radar in Canada, where it was still daylight. Bill Cooke of NASA’ Meteoroid Environment Office told SpaceWeather.com:Radar rates are at 1,000 meteors per hour. This is greater than last year’s outburst, and five times the 2005 level.

Because radars are sensitive to very small meteoroids, there is no guarantee that this radar outburst will translate into meteors visible to the human eye. On the other hand, a brilliant display could be in progress. The only way to know is to go outside and look.

There’s another chance tonight (October 8) to see meteors in this year’s Draconid meteor shower. In most years, this hard-to-predict shower doesn’t offer much more than a handful of languid meteors per hour. Last year – in 2011 – the numbers soared into the hundreds. Now we have a 2012 outburst as well, despite the fact that no elevated meteor numbers were forecast for this year. You’ll definitely want a dark sky – and you should watch in the evening hours when the moon is still down (tonight’s last quarter moon rises in the middle of the night).

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red DRAGON with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.His tail SWEPT A THIRD OF THE STARS FROM THE SKY AND FLUNG THEM TO EARTH." Revelation 12:3

R.H. Allen adds that; "the conclusion of the verse [Rev. 12:4] "did cast them to the earth," would show a possible reference to meteors."6 This is the earliest reference in print I have found that ties a potential Meteor shower to this section of Revelation 12. This Meteor shower that originates from the tail of Draco, the cast down dragon, is linked to its parent comet, known today as the Giacobini-Zinner Comet.

FROM SPACEWEATHER: [link to www.spaceweather.com] An outburst of more than 1000 meteors per hour on Oct. 8th is subsiding now. The Canadian Meteor Orbit Radar (CMOR) detected the surge in activity around 16:00 UT as Earth was passing through a network of debris streams from comet 21P/Giacobini-Zinner, source of the annual Draconid meteor shower. The outburst appears to have been caused by a filament of comet dust shed by Giacobini-Zinner in the year 1959. "This event follows in the grand tradition of short, intense Draconid outbursts," says Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office. Visual reports of the outburst are sparse, which suggests it was faint--i.e, better seen by a radar than by the human eye. Stay tuned for updates. [CMOR radar data] [sky map] [Submit: reports or photos]

Quoting: christian

no. seriously, why does every christian focus on the last books in the bible and not the first 4 of the new testament. this type of speculation and fear mongering is sin. revelations even talks about people like you who spread lies and worry.

UPDATE OCTOBER 8, 2012 20 UTC (3 p.m. CDT) A major outburst of Draconid meteors apparently began at 16 UTC on October 8, 2012, seen via radar in Canada, where it was still daylight. Bill Cooke of NASA’ Meteoroid Environment Office told SpaceWeather.com:Radar rates are at 1,000 meteors per hour. This is greater than last year’s outburst, and five times the 2005 level.

Because radars are sensitive to very small meteoroids, there is no guarantee that this radar outburst will translate into meteors visible to the human eye. On the other hand, a brilliant display could be in progress. The only way to know is to go outside and look.

There’s another chance tonight (October 8) to see meteors in this year’s Draconid meteor shower. In most years, this hard-to-predict shower doesn’t offer much more than a handful of languid meteors per hour. Last year – in 2011 – the numbers soared into the hundreds. Now we have a 2012 outburst as well, despite the fact that no elevated meteor numbers were forecast for this year. You’ll definitely want a dark sky – and you should watch in the evening hours when the moon is still down (tonight’s last quarter moon rises in the middle of the night).

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red DRAGON with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.His tail SWEPT A THIRD OF THE STARS FROM THE SKY AND FLUNG THEM TO EARTH." Revelation 12:3

R.H. Allen adds that; "the conclusion of the verse [Rev. 12:4] "did cast them to the earth," would show a possible reference to meteors."6 This is the earliest reference in print I have found that ties a potential Meteor shower to this section of Revelation 12. This Meteor shower that originates from the tail of Draco, the cast down dragon, is linked to its parent comet, known today as the Giacobini-Zinner Comet.

FROM SPACEWEATHER: [link to www.spaceweather.com] An outburst of more than 1000 meteors per hour on Oct. 8th is subsiding now. The Canadian Meteor Orbit Radar (CMOR) detected the surge in activity around 16:00 UT as Earth was passing through a network of debris streams from comet 21P/Giacobini-Zinner, source of the annual Draconid meteor shower. The outburst appears to have been caused by a filament of comet dust shed by Giacobini-Zinner in the year 1959. "This event follows in the grand tradition of short, intense Draconid outbursts," says Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office. Visual reports of the outburst are sparse, which suggests it was faint--i.e, better seen by a radar than by the human eye. Stay tuned for updates. [CMOR radar data] [sky map] [Submit: reports or photos]

Quoting: christian

no. seriously, why does every christian focus on the last books in the bible and not the first 4 of the new testament. this type of speculation and fear mongering is sin. revelations even talks about people like you who spread lies and worry.

stop trying to mislead people.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

THE BIBLE DOES NOT MISLEAD...

THE BIBLE TELLS US WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HEAVENS AS HIS FOLLOWERS LOOK FOR HIS BLESSED HOPE...

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21

UPDATE OCTOBER 8, 2012 20 UTC (3 p.m. CDT) A major outburst of Draconid meteors apparently began at 16 UTC on October 8, 2012, seen via radar in Canada, where it was still daylight. Bill Cooke of NASA’ Meteoroid Environment Office told SpaceWeather.com:Radar rates are at 1,000 meteors per hour. This is greater than last year’s outburst, and five times the 2005 level.

Because radars are sensitive to very small meteoroids, there is no guarantee that this radar outburst will translate into meteors visible to the human eye. On the other hand, a brilliant display could be in progress. The only way to know is to go outside and look.

There’s another chance tonight (October 8) to see meteors in this year’s Draconid meteor shower. In most years, this hard-to-predict shower doesn’t offer much more than a handful of languid meteors per hour. Last year – in 2011 – the numbers soared into the hundreds. Now we have a 2012 outburst as well, despite the fact that no elevated meteor numbers were forecast for this year. You’ll definitely want a dark sky – and you should watch in the evening hours when the moon is still down (tonight’s last quarter moon rises in the middle of the night).

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red DRAGON with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.His tail SWEPT A THIRD OF THE STARS FROM THE SKY AND FLUNG THEM TO EARTH." Revelation 12:3

R.H. Allen adds that; "the conclusion of the verse [Rev. 12:4] "did cast them to the earth," would show a possible reference to meteors."6 This is the earliest reference in print I have found that ties a potential Meteor shower to this section of Revelation 12. This Meteor shower that originates from the tail of Draco, the cast down dragon, is linked to its parent comet, known today as the Giacobini-Zinner Comet.

FROM SPACEWEATHER: [link to www.spaceweather.com] An outburst of more than 1000 meteors per hour on Oct. 8th is subsiding now. The Canadian Meteor Orbit Radar (CMOR) detected the surge in activity around 16:00 UT as Earth was passing through a network of debris streams from comet 21P/Giacobini-Zinner, source of the annual Draconid meteor shower. The outburst appears to have been caused by a filament of comet dust shed by Giacobini-Zinner in the year 1959. "This event follows in the grand tradition of short, intense Draconid outbursts," says Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office. Visual reports of the outburst are sparse, which suggests it was faint--i.e, better seen by a radar than by the human eye. Stay tuned for updates. [CMOR radar data] [sky map] [Submit: reports or photos]

Quoting: christian

no. seriously, why does every christian focus on the last books in the bible and not the first 4 of the new testament. this type of speculation and fear mongering is sin. revelations even talks about people like you who spread lies and worry.

stop trying to mislead people.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

THE BIBLE DOES NOT MISLEAD...

THE BIBLE TELLS US WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HEAVENS AS HIS FOLLOWERS LOOK FOR HIS BLESSED HOPE...

Quoting: christian

no, you're trying to interpret the bible and looking at every current event as evidence your theories are correct. your last comment assumes that you're thoughts are the correct interpretation of the bible.

UPDATE OCTOBER 8, 2012 20 UTC (3 p.m. CDT) A major outburst of Draconid meteors apparently began at 16 UTC on October 8, 2012, seen via radar in Canada, where it was still daylight. Bill Cooke of NASA’ Meteoroid Environment Office told SpaceWeather.com:Radar rates are at 1,000 meteors per hour. This is greater than last year’s outburst, and five times the 2005 level.

Because radars are sensitive to very small meteoroids, there is no guarantee that this radar outburst will translate into meteors visible to the human eye. On the other hand, a brilliant display could be in progress. The only way to know is to go outside and look.

There’s another chance tonight (October 8) to see meteors in this year’s Draconid meteor shower. In most years, this hard-to-predict shower doesn’t offer much more than a handful of languid meteors per hour. Last year – in 2011 – the numbers soared into the hundreds. Now we have a 2012 outburst as well, despite the fact that no elevated meteor numbers were forecast for this year. You’ll definitely want a dark sky – and you should watch in the evening hours when the moon is still down (tonight’s last quarter moon rises in the middle of the night).

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red DRAGON with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.His tail SWEPT A THIRD OF THE STARS FROM THE SKY AND FLUNG THEM TO EARTH." Revelation 12:3

R.H. Allen adds that; "the conclusion of the verse [Rev. 12:4] "did cast them to the earth," would show a possible reference to meteors."6 This is the earliest reference in print I have found that ties a potential Meteor shower to this section of Revelation 12. This Meteor shower that originates from the tail of Draco, the cast down dragon, is linked to its parent comet, known today as the Giacobini-Zinner Comet.

FROM SPACEWEATHER: [link to www.spaceweather.com] An outburst of more than 1000 meteors per hour on Oct. 8th is subsiding now. The Canadian Meteor Orbit Radar (CMOR) detected the surge in activity around 16:00 UT as Earth was passing through a network of debris streams from comet 21P/Giacobini-Zinner, source of the annual Draconid meteor shower. The outburst appears to have been caused by a filament of comet dust shed by Giacobini-Zinner in the year 1959. "This event follows in the grand tradition of short, intense Draconid outbursts," says Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office. Visual reports of the outburst are sparse, which suggests it was faint--i.e, better seen by a radar than by the human eye. Stay tuned for updates. [CMOR radar data] [sky map] [Submit: reports or photos]

Quoting: christian

no. seriously, why does every christian focus on the last books in the bible and not the first 4 of the new testament. this type of speculation and fear mongering is sin. revelations even talks about people like you who spread lies and worry.

stop trying to mislead people.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

THE BIBLE DOES NOT MISLEAD...

THE BIBLE TELLS US WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HEAVENS AS HIS FOLLOWERS LOOK FOR HIS BLESSED HOPE...

Quoting: christian

no, you're trying to interpret the bible and looking at every current event as evidence your theories are correct. your last comment assumes that you're thoughts are the correct interpretation of the bible.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

GOD said there would be an Un-veiling in the LAST DAYS..

He would remove the CURTAIN so we could see what is happening...

The BIBLE and the WORD of GOD is written in the HEAVENS.

THE SUN , MOON and STARS are for SIGNS and SEASONS...

GOD is SPIRIT...

Satan is also a SPIRIT

GOD is FATHER, SON HOLY SPIRIT

Satan is Evil, Lying Murderous SPIRIT.

Science and Astronomy has given us the technology to see into the Heavens like no other generation has..

When we read the Holy Bible, when we see the writings of Ancient Civilizations we can compare them to the Technology of today and see the profound MYSTERIES OF THE CREATOR...

It is the SPIRIT in the STAR System that we can understand the SEASONS, it also tells us about ourselves and what SPIRIT we are walking on the Planet with..

The SPIRIT of GOD or the SPIRIT of Satan....

GOD said the Wise would seek out his Mysteries..

If you seek you will find...

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21

no. seriously, why does every christian focus on the last books in the bible and not the first 4 of the new testament. this type of speculation and fear mongering is sin. revelations even talks about people like you who spread lies and worry.

stop trying to mislead people.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

THE BIBLE DOES NOT MISLEAD...

THE BIBLE TELLS US WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HEAVENS AS HIS FOLLOWERS LOOK FOR HIS BLESSED HOPE...

Quoting: christian

no, you're trying to interpret the bible and looking at every current event as evidence your theories are correct. your last comment assumes that you're thoughts are the correct interpretation of the bible.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

GOD said there would be an Un-veiling in the LAST DAYS..

He would remove the CURTAIN so we could see what is happening...

The BIBLE and the WORD of GOD is written in the HEAVENS.

THE SUN , MOON and STARS are for SIGNS and SEASONS...

GOD is SPIRIT...

Satan is also a SPIRIT

GOD is FATHER, SON HOLY SPIRIT

Satan is Evil, Lying Murderous SPIRIT.

Science and Astronomy has given us the technology to see into the Heavens like no other generation has..

When we read the Holy Bible, when we see the writings of Ancient Civilizations we can compare them to the Technology of today and see the profound MYSTERIES OF THE CREATOR...

It is the SPIRIT in the STAR System that we can understand the SEASONS, it also tells us about ourselves and what SPIRIT we are walking on the Planet with..

The SPIRIT of GOD or the SPIRIT of Satan....

GOD said the Wise would seek out his Mysteries..

If you seek you will find...

Quoting: christian

God also said there will be many false prophets. instead of reading the stars for fulfillment of prophecy why don't you just preach the words of Jesus. stop worrying about the end times. if it happens it happens. i doubt the multitudes on glp even care.

THE BIBLE TELLS US WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HEAVENS AS HIS FOLLOWERS LOOK FOR HIS BLESSED HOPE...

Quoting: christian

no, you're trying to interpret the bible and looking at every current event as evidence your theories are correct. your last comment assumes that you're thoughts are the correct interpretation of the bible.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

GOD said there would be an Un-veiling in the LAST DAYS..

He would remove the CURTAIN so we could see what is happening...

The BIBLE and the WORD of GOD is written in the HEAVENS.

THE SUN , MOON and STARS are for SIGNS and SEASONS...

GOD is SPIRIT...

Satan is also a SPIRIT

GOD is FATHER, SON HOLY SPIRIT

Satan is Evil, Lying Murderous SPIRIT.

Science and Astronomy has given us the technology to see into the Heavens like no other generation has..

When we read the Holy Bible, when we see the writings of Ancient Civilizations we can compare them to the Technology of today and see the profound MYSTERIES OF THE CREATOR...

It is the SPIRIT in the STAR System that we can understand the SEASONS, it also tells us about ourselves and what SPIRIT we are walking on the Planet with..

The SPIRIT of GOD or the SPIRIT of Satan....

GOD said the Wise would seek out his Mysteries..

If you seek you will find...

Quoting: christian

God also said there will be many false prophets. instead of reading the stars for fulfillment of prophecy why don't you just preach the words of Jesus. stop worrying about the end times. if it happens it happens. i doubt the multitudes on glp even care.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

I'm not worried...More like Spiritually fascinated...

i doubt the multitudes on glp even care. I AGREE WITH YOU HERE...

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21

no, you're trying to interpret the bible and looking at every current event as evidence your theories are correct. your last comment assumes that you're thoughts are the correct interpretation of the bible.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16987424

GOD said there would be an Un-veiling in the LAST DAYS..

He would remove the CURTAIN so we could see what is happening...

The BIBLE and the WORD of GOD is written in the HEAVENS.

THE SUN , MOON and STARS are for SIGNS and SEASONS...

GOD is SPIRIT...

Satan is also a SPIRIT

GOD is FATHER, SON HOLY SPIRIT

Satan is Evil, Lying Murderous SPIRIT.

Science and Astronomy has given us the technology to see into the Heavens like no other generation has..

When we read the Holy Bible, when we see the writings of Ancient Civilizations we can compare them to the Technology of today and see the profound MYSTERIES OF THE CREATOR...

It is the SPIRIT in the STAR System that we can understand the SEASONS, it also tells us about ourselves and what SPIRIT we are walking on the Planet with..

The SPIRIT of GOD or the SPIRIT of Satan....

GOD said the Wise would seek out his Mysteries..

If you seek you will find...

Quoting: christian

God also said there will be many false prophets. instead of reading the stars for fulfillment of prophecy why don't you just preach the words of Jesus. stop worrying about the end times. if it happens it happens. i doubt the multitudes on glp even care.