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I don't believe it has anything to do with discipline or self control since he himself stated he was born this way. His psycho pass has always been pure white. He's probably a "new" kind of sociopath, one whose makeup is completely different from regular ones. He is an abnormal among abnormals.

Some people can be born with really good self control

But yes. As you said. "Abnormal among abnormals". No matter how you look at it, Makishima's brain is as monstrous as some post apocalyptic 8 foot tall radioactive mutant with super human strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

well. a score of zero does indicate that he has a very particular mind set

I am always reminded of Ted Bundy whenever Makishima appears. Both of them can be considered charismatic, and not the usual violent in appearance type of killers, which helps to disguise their killer masks.

I remember reading somewhere that scientists from King's College London once conducted an experiment whereby they scanned the brains of 44 violent male offenders. The research concluded that they are different from "normal" humans in the sense that they had significantly smaller amounts of grey matter in regions concerning moral reasoning and empathy. Like someone mentioned before, it is highly unlikely that the system does not take into account the brain system of those in the prison and analyse it. Assuming that this sort of sociopathic behaviour is linked to physical abnormalities apart from environmental factor, why is it that the system fails to discover that in Makishima? So this brings into question; who and what is Makishima? I have a feeling that he is not entirely human. He could be a subject of a science experiment gone awry.

__________________

A politically ignorant person who embraces only hedonism as the main philosophical doctrine.

You know, there is a scarier, alternative interpretation of Makishima's low psycho-pass. The Sibyl system isn't flawed and Makishima isn't crazy.

I don't think that the Sibyl system is flawed in the sense that it gives inaccurate readings. The readings it gives are accurate, it's just that those readings don't necessarily indicate criminality or the lack thereof.

I think that Psycho-Pass readings are like a more advanced version of a Lie Detector test. And it has similar flaws. Too much stress can turn a truthful statement into a "false positive" lie on a Lie Detector test. Also, if a person truly, really believes in something that's a lie, the Lie Detector test will register it as a truthful statement, because it is a truthful statement in the mind of the person stating it.

And here we come to Makishima, and why sociopaths can "fool" the Psycho-Pass system. I think that Makishima is entirely sincere. I think he really believes that what he is doing is "right", in some very profound sense. Yes, he's deriving enjoyment from it (some of it sadistic), but his actions are based on a philosophy that he sincerely believes is right and just with ever fiber of his being.

A while ago, I asked "What Psycho-Pass reading do you think Bruce Wayne would get"?

Now, let me ask another similar question that uses the comic book world to comment on the Sibyl System: What Psycho-Pass reading do you think Lex Luthor would get? To be very specific, a Lex Luthor that was in the process of killing Superman just like Makishima was in the process of killing Akane's friend here.

Of course, it depends on the version of Lex Luthor we're dealing with (the movie versions probably would be latent criminals). But some versions have become deluded to the degree that Luthor truly believes that Superman is a menace to humanity and should be killed. Lex Luthor is a sociopath that truly believes that he is in the right, and casing aside some lives to achieve his concept of "the greater good" is worth it.

The Psycho-Pass system would get your Jokers, but it might not get your Lex Luthors.

Even if she is deemed a latent criminal now (which I don't think will happen), she's currently way too useless to be an enforcer.

Anyway, whatever happens from here on will make or break the series for me. If Akane pulls herself together and stop being useless then the series has a chance to be actually good. We'll see what happens.

Even if she is deemed a latent criminal now (which I don't think will happen), she's currently way too useless to be an enforcer.

Anyway, whatever happens from here on will make or break the series for me. If Akane pulls herself together and stop being useless then the series has a chance to be actually good. We'll see what happens.

As much as I love Psycho-Pass, I largely agree that how Akane is handled from here is crucial to how good Psycho-Pass will be from this point on. While I expect there's going to be an angst period for awhile (which is to be expected), I hope that Akane eventually bounces back and becomes much more useful.

As for this episode, I thoroughly enjoyed it with just one exception - It was too dark, literally.

The action scenes were glorious, except due to the extreme darkness I found it hard to follow some of them. For that reason alone, I gave this episode 9/10 instead of 10/10.

And here we come to Makishima, and why sociopaths can "fool" the Psycho-Pass system. I think that Makishima is entirely sincere. I think he really believes that what he is doing is "right", in some very profound sense. Yes, he's deriving enjoyment from it (some of it sadistic), but his actions are based on a philosophy that he sincerely believes is right and just with ever fiber of his being.

You do not find it bizarre that the Sibyl system managed to get implemented despite not taking into account a factor that causes it to fail to catch groups like Aum Shinrikyo, al Qaeda, and the Free Software Foundation?

You do not find it bizarre that the Sibyl system managed to get implemented despite not taking into account a factor that causes it to fail to catch groups like Aum Shinrikyo, al Qaeda, and the Free Software Foundation?

Well, the sort of people that local police forces deal with tend to lean more towards "common criminals" than "terrorists". And while Aum Shinrikyo had an infamous impact on Japan, he may be ancient and almost forgotten history in the world of Psycho-Pass. Modern real world Japan does not have much of a problem with terrorism, at least based on what I've read on Japan (I don't recall reading about a Japanese equivalent of the IRA for example).

Anyway, baring the sociopath reasoning, it's hard to figure how Makishima's reading can be so low. What he did this episode was obviously criminal, and would cause most people to feel at least some guilt I think.

Perhaps Oryo, deep down inside, knew that what she was doing was morally wrong, hence her high psycho-pass reading a few episodes back. But maybe Makishima really does believe that what he's doing is right, and perfectly justified. Perhaps "guilt" or "shame" plays a big role in Psycho-Pass readings.

It's incredibly gratifying to see some of the issues with the Dominators that I and others raised quite a few weeks back are being addressed in much the way I'd expected. This of course is no claim of clairvoyance on my part, but rather a testament to Urobuchi's storytelling, particularly in how well he expresses thematic elements in a clear, but naturalistic way. Urobuchi's tragedies are affecting because they always end in the way you knew they had to end, but hoped against hope that they would not.

As expected, the Sybil/Dominator judgement system has created the perfect weapon for a detached and inhuman society: A weapon that absolves the wielder of any responsibility for -- or association with -- its destructive consequences. So called "inspectors" have no stake in their actions so long as Sybil is deciding who does and doesn't deserve to live, and the result is highly "qualified" people like Akane are left incapable of making the life and death decisions that a society's law enforcers are usually entrusted with. What is worse (though I should have anticipated this) is that it is the mass-murdering villain who calls this system out, and seeks to subvert it. Even so, with the revelation that like Akane he has an incorruptible psychopass, I still hope that Akane can challenge the system in a less monstrous fashion. There's that word again.

As before, the only modern analog I can come up with for the Dominator in law enforcement is the police taser, which has proved a controversial weapon because some believe that its "non-lethal" application will create situations where police or security might adopt a more trigger-happy approach to enforcement, since they would believe that they don't risk ending an innocent life. Can anyone think of a better example? Unmanned drone strikes are a more military example, and I don't quite think they fit here.

It sickens me, but the moments leading up to Yuki's execution were superb. Sublime, even. By the time he tipped her head back, I had a forearm over my eyes. Just... fuck... Really, I think that's why Urobuchi is so infamous for his tragedies when other writers kill off entire platoons worth doe-eyed redshirts compared to him: It's not the body count, it's the dread and anticipation as it all slowly and inevitably unfolds.

Last edited by ThereminVox; 2012-12-20 at 20:24.
Reason: I am incapable of not obsessively editing my posts 6 times.

I have a feeling that he is not entirely human. He could be a subject of a science experiment gone awry.

I had posted the exact same theory in the speculations thread. That maybe Shogo was indeed part of an experiment and got out as a child. Also I think Akane may have been part of the same experiment but was raised as normally as possible in order to prevent the same mistakes that made Shogo.

My speculation is that Makishima simply feels no emotion from the act of hurting or killing. It's not a net zero from subtracting sadism from empathy, like how it usually is. It's zero from the start.

Criminals enjoy the act of killing; there's lots of ways this happens. If a criminal is stressed and a victim is the root of that stress, killing the victim gives the criminal the "enjoyment" of releasing that stress. If the criminal is Oryo Rikako, the process of killing is itself the entertainment. If the criminal is Toyohisa Senguji, the hunt provides the entertainment. All of these involve the pain/death of others as the direct source of enjoyment. Let's call an individual's willingness to do this "sadism".

Normally, everyone has a certain level of sadism in them (bear with me here ). But they also have a latent value of "empathy" that counteracts that sadism. For the sake of simplicity, let's let the difference between those two variables determine how likely someone will commit crimes.

Now consider Makishima's philosophy. Apparently he just wants other people to "be themselves". Whether or not this entails people dying is of no concern to him. He's never interested in watching the murders, he's only interested in the person doing the murders. What he did this episode is the same thing. He does not enjoy killing Yuki. He does not even enjoy watching Akane squirm (and is even disappointed at that). He just wants to test people.

In a regular situation, this is still fine; in fact, it's optimal because someone who does not enjoy hurting/killing would have a sadism value of zero. Then empathy would naturally dominate.

And thus comes the catch: what if an individual's empathy is also zero? Then this test is inconclusive. That's what I see Makishima as.

I don't think that the Sibyl system is flawed in the sense that it gives inaccurate readings. The readings it gives are accurate, it's just that those readings don't necessarily indicate criminality or the lack thereof.

I think that Psycho-Pass readings are like a more advanced version of a Lie Detector test. And it has similar flaws. Too much stress can turn a truthful statement into a "false positive" lie on a Lie Detector test. Also, if a person truly, really believes in something that's a lie, the Lie Detector test will register it as a truthful statement, because it is a truthful statement in the mind of the person stating it.

And here we come to Makishima, and why sociopaths can "fool" the Psycho-Pass system. I think that Makishima is entirely sincere. I think he really believes that what he is doing is "right", in some very profound sense. Yes, he's deriving enjoyment from it (some of it sadistic), but his actions are based on a philosophy that he sincerely believes is right and just with ever fiber of his being.

A while ago, I asked "What Psycho-Pass reading do you think Bruce Wayne would get"?

Now, let me ask another similar question that uses the comic book world to comment on the Sibyl System: What Psycho-Pass reading do you think Lex Luthor would get? To be very specific, a Lex Luthor that was in the process of killing Superman just like Makishima was in the process of killing Akane's friend here.

Of course, it depends on the version of Lex Luthor we're dealing with (the movie versions probably would be latent criminals). But some versions have become deluded to the degree that Luthor truly believes that Superman is a menace to humanity and should be killed. Lex Luthor is a sociopath that truly believes that he is in the right, and casing aside some lives to achieve his concept of "the greater good" is worth it.

The Psycho-Pass system would get your Jokers, but it might not get your Lex Luthors.

I agree. You know, Makishima and Kogami are opposites in more ways than we might think. Kagami has a high psycho-pass and is deemed a latent criminal. By that judgement, one can conclude that he is evil. However, he refused to leave Akane's friend to save his own skin and has shown compassion many times. Yet Makishima's psycho-pass has never been anything but white and he commits obviously evil acts without suffering from a rise in his psycho-pass. Pretty ironic.

I can't believe Yuki died. I was rooting for her to survive. It also appears that Makashima isn't the only one who can control his cc. Kogami's dominator gun didn't work on a criminal in the first episode as well, when they gave us a glimpse into the future.

T_T
Why Akane's friend, why you have to die. Grrr.....wonder how the other friend of Akane is gonna react. Would be surprised if Akane just cuts off all ties because she doesn't want her to get involved as well.

If I was Akane, I would have aimed the dominator at her friend, because she's probably distressed enough to trigger it, then shoot while aiming badly so it would hit shogo...