I can't force myself to watch this vid to the end. The triple replay, redundant slow-mo moments, csiQL style, i can handle, wasting my time because you can't spend ten minutes of your time cutting out the parts where you fuck around with commands and shit (90% of the whole video, it looks like), i can't. Sorry. I understand that you're raged and probably can't be arsed, but this is just bleh.

The three situations i did manage to get a glimpse at in between the glorious console drops did look a bit wall-hacky but i'd be careful to call it either way without more context.

Nope sorry, this took me long enough, demo is there with the times.. Maybe look at it how you like with that. Sorry. I actually had some people go through the demo as they said the same "prolly a WHer" and teh vid "sucks". but apparently even though it is baltent as fuck, its not enough, no one cares..... no wonder people are never put off from cheating. it really takes too much time, hence I give up ;] thanks anyway. I didn't think it was the quality that was important and it's honestly the best i could do ;]

Well, maybe ask someone with decent editing skills to cook up a presentable vid out of this?

If you feel like you have a strong case here i'd imagine it's only natural you'd want to make it as clear and concise as humanly possible. The vid you made is just too chaotic, it's hard to properly focus on the relevant input (potential sound cues, tracking etc). :/

I think you might have something here, if only you'd flesh out the relevant parts. I skipped around a bit and the last situation seems pretty damning.

exactly.... need more proof ! no one cares ! you wonder why I'm raged ;] cant even ban someone from a league without people defending these cheats ;] want another one! thats not conclusive ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO_juK7Jsl8 cloudzzz aka ch41n from sitto still not enough LOL

sure why not, its made of 3 clips that shows nothing and you only found if because you looked hard for it..

1st clip: this kind of mousemovement could have been made by anyone that just randoms his mouse around waiting for countdown u_u try to look more at the clip without wh.

2nd clip: he looks up from a soundque from his teammate to see whats going on, and his cross randomly touches a guy sneaking in? again look a bit more on the clip without wh.

3rd clip: what is this supposed to show at all, obviously they are in a defensive position after losing red or waiting for quad. And scanning for sounds if anyone comes up the jumppad or down the corrridor. Yes he twitches his mouse, when the "wh" shows an enemy appear for a splitsecond, and changes mouse pos. But do you realise how fast it happens like 2-3 frames, shit most people could not pull that of if they tried to land a fast railshot.

You will find something when you look hard enough for it and want to find it..
None of theese clips shows anything conclusive. Someone could find you doing the same kind of things if they looked for it hard enough.

A: i do watch all demos without wh first, then with. you do not need to tell me how to trace cheaters properly.

B: everything could be random. no need to repeat the "random mouse movement" argument over and over again. I watch demos carefully keeping in mind that everyone is innocent unless proven otherwise. And I do grant a very high level of randomness to a player. E.g. i watched thasmos demo in OPs post and I did not find any evidence ... the scenes in his vid are truly random. unlike mine.

C: Sure, you can find weird and suspicious things everywhere when you look close enough and want to find them. But maybe you should stop believing that all these things just happened by pure coincidence and randomness. And maybe you should stop thinking that everyone who's posting such videos is just mad, new to the game, cant use wolfcam or does not know how to watch demos in a proper manner. Try to differ.

1st clip: sure, could be random, as usual. but it's not, his mouse moves straight for the enemy.

again, i do watch everything without wh.

2nd clip: No, he's moving his mouse up to watch to RG, then moves his mouse on the enemy by accident and removes it immediately, like he was thinking 'oh wtf am i doing, dont aim at him through the wall'.

and again, i do watch everything without wh.

3rd clip: this is supposed to show how he gets frightened by the enemy spawning in there. Looking at the mouse movement before and after the spawn you can tell that the spawn made him move the mouse so quickly.

A: i do watch all demos without wh first, then with. you do not need to tell me how to trace cheaters properly.

Looks like he does. Your video shows absolutely nothing but your strong will to believe he is cheating. If the guy in question was really cheating, you would have much more conclusive things to show. Move on.

No he does not, and neither do you. And I dont believe he is cheating, I'm convinced by all the demos I watched of him and his team. There are plenty more scenes, but making such videos just takes too much time to show them all. Move on.

yeah, I do wonder why you're raged and care? if you think they're cheating, you can play someone else, no? sure, it's unfair when people cheat, but do you get similarly raged every time someone speeds pasts you on the road? is it a reason to stop driving? life is too short, surely you have other things to care about?

No it wasn't easy my quote is "quake is my football" you guys have no idea how depressed this makes me feel... I care so much for this game I have even written full introductions for it, posted on gamespot... encouraged my friends to play, told everyone its a SPORT..... not just a game to me.

Cant help myself not to reply to such bs. I wonder why you even started playing quake reading this. I love this game so i play it often and have fun with it. Sometimes i even stumble upon a cheater like KKK but i still play him even if whole planet knows that he is a cheat. I enjoy that game vs him as well, as he tries to hide it all the time but fails most of the time as i force him to show it by playing good. I find it challenging as well even tho i m forced to lose a match, i win mentally everytime i force him to go blatant. I m not glad he cheats but what can i do about it? Nothing, neither can any anticheat, an ignorant stays one for the rest of his life most often so why bother. Right, dont.
To just add to that your kind of attitude makes things much worse than it is. I dont find cheater often as they arent many around just few no-lifers around like kkk trolling around, but most people i guess think like you so every time they see good lg they scream HAX and ragequit. I was banned by a fool like that and got accused numerous times just cause they saw good percentage or similar.

Bottom line go play a game you like so much and enjoy it, forget about cheats and most important stop crying on this site looks pathetic and creates even more "paranoia" about it.

I realize it doesnt have to do with aim. Percentage was just simple example.
When i mention "cheater going blatant", i mean he has to use his wh or any kind of cheat in a most obvious manner in order to win.
I ll put it for you in a real life context: I wont stop working hard in a gym taking care of my sexy body just cause some people in there take steroids (therefore cheat) and grow in 1 month what i reach in 6 or perhaps to that extend that i can never reach no matter how much i try. In the end we all know whos balls are bigger. I guess you would stop?! You might quit your job as well by that logic. Cheers.

abuse my status ? I have none, never mind care for it, I gave it up did you miss that ? it has gone out the window. I do not care for my status... its more about my money I'm wasting on a game I feel cheated out of after i have put so much effort it.

You say that like I'm wrong, If I am wrong then tell me that........ thats what I hope for! coz i truly love this game, you obviously don't get it!

Well before I left ql I actually had some arguments about how to handle teams which got caught cheating with the hoq staff (I think it even was you). Seemed ridiculous to me that a team doesn't get kicked from a league if one if its members got caught hacking, they didn't even get a defloss but were allowed replay the match if they replaced the cheater. This was about fragma and lithxv btw and was very frustrating back then as I still loved the game but saw no future in the tdm scene. So I think I understand what you feel and I certainly don't blame you for anything.
Nevertheless you and the whole HoQ staff contributed a lot to the quake live community, your leaving weights way more than if a random like me leaves for example.

That may be so, yes it was me.. I remember talking with you about this, reason I preferred to replay was due to the fact we wanted to let people have as many games as possible that's all I cared about back then, they got banned from Quake Live so I thought that was enough. Ofc it was not and didn't send out the right message I'm sorry for making that mistake and now regret it, ofc now my stance has now changed and although I leave this scene... if I was to ever admin again it would not happen like that ;]

I wasn't gonna post but.. I care too much :) Its not his team's fault that they hacked. False positives are the worst thing.. punishing someone for something he never did. This is the biggest problem with ql.. its discouraging and hard enough to improve at all because even if you do, paranoid bitches like williebob get raged like this and believe so blindly that you cheat, and they'll do whatever it takes to make everyone else think you do as well. I'm not saying whether I think thasmo cheats or not, but willie, its a bad reason to quit QL, or even rage at all, when all people are doing in these situations is protecting ppl from being falsely banned.

How would you feel if you played for 10 years and worked hard to improve, and earned nothing from it, only to be falsely accused by admins and their friends. Its just disrespectful and stupid behaviour that belittles hoqleagues and yourself. At the same time though, I understand your paranoia, there's no anticheat and anyone could be cheating, even you and me right? Its one of many reasons I've decided to stop playing as well.

This situation is just too hazy and confusing. Not for me anymore. Its funny in a sad way though - cause sports are the same with steroids.

It has to be enough for everyone - it has to be fact. Otherwise you're just banning someone because of your opinion. Look how that worked out with the american justice system. Falsely executed innocent people. I know its obviously more serious in that analogy, but if you want to take this game seriously, cos as you say, "quake is my football", then you need to take banning people more seriously as well. It seems the only way to play this game with its current state is with a big pinch of salt.

Again I agree, yes I am trying to let people tell me what they think and give a verdict as i have already said "i hope i am wrong" i put up what i have as evidence and I'm waiting on your verdicts. what more can I say ;]

I held out till 6th minute mark since the rest is repeating.
My verdict is that I wouldn't play nay pub but only official match with this guy.

If this is something that you can't overlook or explain by so called game rage/your own mistake? The it merits bringing it up for some investigating since most players that care about being clear have demo records.

All I know is that if it were up to anyone with vor_s temper, half of quake scene would be banned.

As to comment the video, the blind rail there and first part of the clip seem like something that could be traced to a move someone either very good/ skilled would do. Or attributed to a WH. At least those are my 2cents on this, as CTF with a team on comms, and experience in playing the mode matter as much as anything.

As for you quitting, I hope you do not.
There are many reasons not to. I know you are active in organizing HOQ tournaments. So the rest of play time you have, I'd spend in team practice which is organized and minimize your pub play time.
With games on PUBs you never know, so avoid it. Plenty of active teams out there, play with the ones you like.

I couldn't care less about the cheater in question... there are hundreds if not thousands. What bothers me is that you are going to leave. I understand you perfectly, and I have also quit QL until they set up a decent anticheat.

It's so frustrating and undermining that I can't even be arsed to play the new game modes... occasionally I just start a practice tdm match for shits n' lulz but that's it.

I hope to see you back on the upper echelons of QL organizers in the near future, but for now this is one more fatality the QL community will notice, I'm sure.

You can leave dignified and vindicated because it is undeniably a hacker. Despite having everything on a silver platter, the developers failed miserably with Quake Live due to their own incompetence. Never again will id Software produce a successful game.

Until we have a somewhat working anticheat we will have a lot of cheaters. Since id software are not doing anything about this, it is just to easy and without any effort anyone can cheat. I do think the occurrence of cheaters is unfortunately quite common, even in official games in all divisions.

Even with a anticheat there will always be some cheaters out there, but at least it would make it slightly harder and perhaps cheaters would not want to risk it when they know there are some protection and risk by getting caught. At this point the only way to deal with cheaters is by ignorance as they will not be caught..

This frustrates me more than anything with the current state of Quake Live as it is very hard to trust people these days, in particular if they are new and totally unknown from previous LAN's etc. This is not fair for the players that don't cheat (which should be the majority!:) and definitely not healthy for a striving online based community such as Quake. I would never accuse anyone of cheating if there would not be 100% proof, but it still is annoying me silently as this is the current situation.

My biggest recommendation for you is not to quit, just ignore these players and play with people you know or trust. I did not watch your video due to lack of time, but felt I wanted to spill some thoughts :)

Quake has never had proper protection from cheats.
From what I remember PB caused a lot of problems with little to none cheat catching.

Proper anticheat software requires a lot of work for big games and provides very little income.
But I guess for a talented programmer it wouldn't be that hard to make one for a small game like quakelive.

You might be right with a fully protected client. In Q2 we had 1x person updating our anticheat with some success. He did this for free and on his own. Once he stopped, then of course the anticheat was more or less outdated... So yes, it's possible for 1x person with the knowledge.

You will perhaps not be able to be protected against all the cheats all the time, but you will create awareness and caution to the bigger mass by having a official anticheat with updates ... Now it's basically free for all if you see / understand the difference :)

This is of course needed if you want to have a 'esport platform' that works for online play. If you have no strive for this, then naturally you don't need to have a anticheat. This is not a requirement I guess, but more or less a vague hope that it would be implemented at some point since we obviously have a lot of paranoia and distrust in this community as it is right now. I don't want to come out as a greedy person, but we do also pay for this game for a few years already... If this was not the case, then it would also come with less requirements from my personal view.

Most likely there are not enough subscribers and/or money issue. If that is the case, I don't see anything coming to change this either. If their current model is not brining in the cash, then act or do something about it. I've seen tons of very nice and good suggestions just by following various threads and posts on this site alone... You just need to filter out the crap that a lot (including myself) post here at times :)

I also liked there was a list of people that were caught by it, ordered by nationality. I remember most cheaters were Polish and Brazilian.

More than prohibiting entry to the servers and banning IPs, since it's pretty easy to get rid of both, what matters the most is making a black list, so cheaters aren't allowed in tournaments nor accepted in clans. With that they will inevitably keep ruining pubs (as long as they don't get kicked for being known cheaters in an alt account) but not tournaments.
This is why I made a fuzz about that argentinian player getting caught cheating (rayn0r) but that wasn't banned for still unknown reasons, since the QL account system works similarly to r1ch's anticheat.

There are 3 choices: an anticheat that makes that list automatically when banning someone for wallhacking and others, stricter manual banning procedures (which ends in banned accounts and not only a random nickname or IP), and doing it ourselves.
The first one won't happen because that requires some work and id doesn't feel like it since quake3.
As for the second one, I think actively enforcing the current system is the only way "we" have to stop cheaters, since a ban destroys a player's reputation, particularly when the account says he was banned for cheating. In short, ordus must stop not banning people because they are subscribers (dozens of cases reported in this site) or due to other reasons (mainly complaints). Once a cheater always a cheater.
If he doesn't, the third option is "we" could do that list itself, distinguishing between banned cheaters and known blatant cheaters that weren't banned. Only problem is the current one is not that good, and I don't think someone reliable and not biased will perfect it.

'Most cheaters from Poland and Brazil'. This also goes down to a lot which nations has the biggest player base :) But even in Q2 we had hundreds of cheaters getting caught in mid 2005's.. This in a much smaller community than QL is today. I mean we are talking about a few % of ALL players here. In a game that I consider most likely has a much older average age than QL for instance.. and yeah, this anticheat was coded and developed mainly by R1ch as you mention.

if you cant pickpcket in poland then you are not polish! seriously, polish people have no respect for the modern world and rules and regulations, and brazil has some of the biggest crimes and criminals in the world.

if the police catches you in poland driving a car drunk, you can say it was your sisters wedding and you are free to go lol.

take a walk in rio airport, if you dont get robbed there chances are you will never get robbed anywhere.

Brazil had way less players than Chile but 10x more cheaters. Even though it may sound racist, Q2 isn't the only game in which Brazilians are known for being cheaters, trolls or way worse players in general. It's a tendency, and actually that whole nation is banned from some game's servers (can't remember names but I knew 2) and others have a different server for them even though numbers don't justify it, LoL being the best example (not released yet and it hasn't been officially announced , but it's coming very soon).

If we can learn something from Q2 is that the lack of an updated anticheat is what puts the nail in the coffin in steadily declining games. Those can "survive" for years in a state that some people might considered to be dead, but having lots of cheaters is what makes loyal players stop playing the game constantly.
QL is nowhere near there, but give it 1 1/2 years and it'll be, and this will become a truly major issue and not just whining due to getting outsmarted or railed a lot.

screw it, back in q2 we typed ratbot in the console and the cheater got kicked mid game... how fucking hard would it be for id to implement something like that today?

if people suspected a cheater they just type a command in the console and off it would grab a screenshot of the users on the server and send it off to some place where a guy gets notified about new screenshots, i know all cheats are not visible on screen and they hide it, but most cheaters and the biggest cheats are wh and esp's and all that shit which is visible on screen to aid them.. force the signup process with real id, 1 account per name to start with, you pay for additions, you get banned and you get banned by your real name and get posted on a public board of cheaters. they would have cleaned up the majority of cheaters in weeks and give them no chance to get back.

how about premium with anticheat? i know i would pay for that. they could actually try out a new payment plan where honest people, i think mostly veterans would subscribe to it, but with the money they could try to implement some cheat protection, and you would have to pay like a dollar a month? some small amount for it and you would get a status in the game and you would be seperated from the rest and only play with likeminded people who supported that subscription. i think it would be nice, to know that you are playing with other players who are all equal minded about the issues. it would drastically change matters and it would bring some weird respect and honor between the people meeting up in the game i think, just knowing that you meet up with players who support the game for the belief they have in it. at least those are the people i want to play with... not the freeloading whiners... the noobs...

poor id, no matter what they do, they dont understand that the bigger the quake gets the more shit there will be. they dont have the resources to clean it up, they just keep on developing it without fixing the shit lol, 15 new game modes later and 20000 new free accounts and somebody in the id office commits suicide.

PB improved things in Q3 drastically and was always used in most major online competitions where available. That extra layer of protection helped more than it hurt, especially if you're playing online with a bunch of people you have never met IRL before.

before PB hit the scene, people could EASILY find and download a working OGC bot or some other public hack, just like they can easily get QLHook / whitelight these days. pretty sad how backwards things have gotten to be honest. Q3 is still years ahead of QL in almost every aspect.

Proper anticheat software requires a lot of work for big games and provides very little income.
But I guess for a talented programmer it wouldn't be that hard to make one for a small game like quakelive.

again wrong, heres why:
1) QL is NOT a big game.
2) QL is NOT a hard game to develop an anti-cheat for.
3) Im willing to bet that QL's income will increase ten fold if they had a proper anticheat which encouraged more competitive play.

bottom line is, as it is now, you cant trust anyone simply because you dont know who's legit and who isnt unless you've been tracking their progression for several years. we need an anticheat, whether its pb or something in-house, doesnt really matter as long as it works. also, how easy it is to make alias accounts doesnt help either. PB also had GUIDs that locked to your unique cdkey which rectified that problem as well. if this doesnt happen soon, im holding ID 100% responsible for the death of QL, Q3, and the entire fastpaced FPS-shooter genre.

That's funny, considering there have been working, unchallanged cheats for Q3 for years.

1) QL is NOT a big game.

what the hell is that supposed to mean, you don't even say 'big' in terms of what? funnily, any "size" is irrelevant to the difficulty of developing and maintaining an anti-cheat.

2) QL is NOT a hard game to develop an anti-cheat for.

what kind of qualifications do you have to claim so? what the hell does 'hard' even mean? you're just throwing random jumble out there with no basis, too funny.

3) Im willing to bet that QL's income will increase ten fold if they had a proper anticheat which encouraged more competitive play.

what exactly are you willing to bet on that? the majority of people playing quakelive don't even know when someone is cheating, nor do they care. the competitive community of a few thousand players is not as relevant to the financial success of game as much as you think it is. funnily, you probably don't and just trolling, if you had any real money to bet, you would bet on dumbing the game down more and introducing vehicles.

bottom line is, as it is now, you cant trust anyone simply because you dont know who's legit and who isnt unless you've been tracking their progression for several years.

speak for yourself, not everyone is a paranoic with obsessive compulsive disorder. most people just hop on a server and enjoy the game for their own experiences, without a care in the world of what the other players are doing.

im holding ID 100% responsible for the death of QL, Q3, and the entire fastpaced FPS-shooter genre.

wow, and who do you hold responsible for giving it to us in the first place?
just so you know, I am holding you responsible for the death of QL, Q3, and space travel for not starting a super sucessful FPS-shooter game development company and financing the development of teleportatio devices from the proceeds. I will be forming a special tribunal to hold a trial shortly. would you like to attend?

That's funny, considering there have been working, unchallanged cheats for Q3 for years.

there were always private cheats, sure. however, no one dared to use public hacks on PB-enabled servers though as they would risk getting their hardware/cdkey blacklisted from all PB-enabled servers and would have to purchase a new game or worse:buy a new pc.

what the hell is that supposed to mean, you don't even say 'big' in terms of what? funnily, any "size" is irrelevant to the difficulty of developing and maintaining an anti-cheat.

i agree, this is irrelevant when it comes to anticheat development. these days QL has a small following and its playerbase is extremely small. i was simply replying to the guy who implied QL was a "big game".

what kind of qualifications do you have to claim so? what the hell does 'hard' even mean? you're just throwing random jumble out there with no basis, too funny.

well, personally i dont know c++ but i do know several experienced c++ game developers. I also know that the Id Tech 3 engine is over 10 years old. ive also spoken to Maverick(runs maverickservers/written noghost anticheat) who claimed that he'd EASILY be able to write a basic anticheat for QL within a month, given the chance. what's pathetic is that the ID developers have had YEARS to implement some basic protection and havent shown us any signs of progress towards this highly requested & basic necessity.

speak for yourself, not everyone is a paranoic with obsessive compulsive disorder. most people just hop on a server and enjoy the game for their own experiences, without a care in the world of what the other players are doing.

the QL/ESR forums say otherwise. also i dont know about the EU scene but over here in NA if you go into any QL server and you're bound to hear paranoid noobs yelling hacks at perfectly legit players who arent even that much better than them. its gotten quite ridiculous

wow, and who do you hold responsible for giving it to us in the first place?

not them, ID just made the base engines and the community took care of the rest, something that is now impossible with QL. quake = shit without the additional community development backing it up. just look at QL and it proves my point, everything handed to them on a fucking platter and they still fail miserably.

however, no one dared to use public hacks on PB-enabled servers though as they would risk getting their hardware/cdkey blacklisted from all PB-enabled servers and would have to purchase a new game or worse:buy a new pc.

this is such nonsense. cdkeys were passed around, generated, and easily available. the cheats were always working getting fixed days after an PB update. PB makes things harder, but doesn't stop shit, the arbiter has ALWAYS been the community looking at the players.

these days QL has a small following and its playerbase is extremely small. i was simply replying to the guy who implied QL was a "big game".

again, big and small compared to what? QLRanks is logging hundreds of thousands of player names, in no way is that 'small', unless compared to WoW, or Farmville.

he'd EASILY be able to write a basic anticheat for QL within a month, given the chance.

1 month of a professional C++ developer sounds 'easy' to you? surely you realize he will have to keep working on this at least half time to keep up as well as PB (patheticaly) did? no, it's not hard, it's just not "easy", as it would cost at least $60k a year.

what's pathetic is that the ID developers have had YEARS to implement some basic protection and havent shown us any signs of progress towards this highly requested & basic necessity.

it has been stated many times they do have basic protection that doesn't necessary announce anything to the client. regardless, it's not called 'pathetic' when resources are limited and have to be allocated towards some but not all needs. it's called 'business decisions'.

the QL/ESR forums say otherwise.

mostly you and two other tireless banner-men, which is the entire point. for a few loud people, there are thousands perfectly content with no reason to speak up or argue about something that is not a concern to them.

go into any QL server and you're bound to hear paranoid noobs yelling hacks at perfectly legit players who arent even that much better than them. its gotten quite ridiculous

on populated servers, CA, FFA, CTF, I don't hear any such thing, not even once. In duel, yeah, someone always whines and calls cheats once a while. emo problems have nothing to do with real cheating.

not them, ID just made the base engines and the community took care of the rest, something that is now impossible with QL.

uh, how the hell does that make sense? 'id' made something without which this 'community' wouldn't even exist, so it's "not them"? lols

just look at QL and it proves my point, everything handed to them on a fucking platter and they still fail miserably.

yeah, totally failing, with all the perfectly happy QL players, how miserable. too bad no one will ever know.

this is such nonsense. cdkeys were passed around, generated, and easily available. the cheats were always working getting fixed days after an PB update. PB makes things harder, but doesn't stop shit, the arbiter has ALWAYS been the community looking at the players.

wow you are terribly clueless. did you even play 1.32? cdkeys were passed around? ROFL. this is terribly false. no one would be stupid enough to share their cdkey with another person because for one they would risk their GUID being globally banned, and two in order to connect to PB-enabled servers you needed to connect with a unique GUID which meant two guys with the same cdkey could never be in the same server at the same time.

and cdkeys generated from keygens or other automated programs NEVER worked on PB. they werent real keys, they just generated an acceptable cdkey algorithm that looked like it was authentic, so they never validated online and only worked for single player. second, in the rare occassion that you actually did get lucky with one of these keygens and got a working cdkey, most of the GUIDS from these keys were already globally banned from being pirated and passed around so many times that you wouldve gotten kicked from any PB-enabled servers ASAP if you tried using a key from them.

again, big and small compared to what? QLRanks is logging hundreds of thousands of player names, in no way is that 'small', unless compared to WoW, or Farmville.

actually, those numbers shown on qlranks are still terribly small compare to the amount of players q3 and previous quake iterations had at its peak worldwide. but anyways.

1 month of a professional C++ developer sounds 'easy' to you? surely you realize he will have to keep working on this at least half time to keep up as well as PB (patheticaly) did? no, it's not hard, it's just not "easy", as it would cost at least $60k a year.

what makes you think itd cost atleast $60k / year LOL. way to overexaggerate the costs. im sure the maintenance costs would be no where near that amount. i doubt it would even get to a point where it would need to be updated on as much of a frequent basis as PB. you'd really only need to block one or two infamous cheats (ie:qlhook/whitelight) and then you'd have people shitting their pants. after people start getting caught, this would essentially force them to have to PAY hackers for cheats if they wanted to gain an unfair advantage (which is the way it should be).

it has been stated many times they do have basic protection that doesn't necessary announce anything to the client.

LOL, source?

regardless, it's not called 'pathetic' when resources are limited and have to be allocated towards some but not all needs. it's called 'business decisions'.

yes, it is pathetic when they add 4238947389247982 shitty gametypes and other useless shit that no one is going to care about after a week instead of fixing things that matter and will improve the overall experience of the game. their business decisions thus far have been terrible.

mostly you and two other tireless banner-men, which is the entire point. for a few loud people, there are thousands perfectly content with no reason to speak up or argue about something that is not a concern to them.

on populated servers, CA, FFA, CTF, I don't hear any such thing, not even once. In duel, yeah, someone always whines and calls cheats once a while. emo problems have nothing to do with real cheating.

just me and two others? lol! keep turning a blind eye if thats what keeps you going. unsatisfied players who actually care about this game will continue to voice out their opinions, and fanboys such as yourself will continue to suck up to ID no matter how shitty things get in the end. :)

yeah, totally failing, with all the perfectly happy QL players, how miserable. too bad no one will ever know.

wow you are terribly clueless. did you even play 1.32? cdkeys were passed around? ROFL. this is terribly false.

wow, why are you so full of shit? did you even play Q3? people cheated and no one 'ran out' of cdkeys. period. yeah, maybe you've never seen a good keygen, I'm sorry. when I wanted to play with someone else, all I did is change the last digit of my cdkey and it worked. amazingly hard? lol

they werent real keys

lol? you don't have any idea how a key works, do you? it's "real" if it passes, get over it.

what makes you think itd cost atleast $60k / year LOL. way to overexaggerate the costs. im sure the maintenance costs would be no where near that amount.

apparently i know how much professional programmers time is worth, and you don't. the maintenance is measured in time, and the person would have to keep working on it at least 20hours a week to keep up with the cheats. switching that person to other projects would be cost-deficient.

you'd really only need to block one or two infamous cheats (ie:qlhook/whitelight) and then you'd have people shitting their pants. after people start getting caught, this would essentially force them to have to PAY hackers for cheats if they wanted to gain an unfair advantage (which is the way it should be).

LOL, kind of like cheaters were shitting their pants while not giving a shit about PB in Quake3? you could suspect anyone of cheating, and you NEVER could be certain that they don't. blatant cheaters using shitty obvious cheats are just as obvious now and just as easily banned. so effectively you want to waste money on something that wouldn't even improve the current situation. very sound business advice to the business of id Software, I'm sure they appreciate it.

LOL, source?

LOL, the internet. Google it.

yes, it is pathetic when they add 4238947389247982 shitty gametypes and other useless shit that no one is going to care about after a week instead of fixing things that matter and will improve the overall experience of the game. their business decisions thus far have been terrible.

except far more people and potential new players care about this content far more than they care about some cheats that only a handful competitive players are so bothered about. it's a business decision, just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it pathetic. it makes you nonobjective blowhard.

just me and two others? lol! keep turning a blind eye if thats what keeps you going.

what keeps me going is oxygen and nutrients, not a computer game. you should get out sometime.

unsatisfied players who actually care about this game will continue to voice out their opinions

unsatisfied players like you will never be satisfied. what you need to realize is that you are not entitled to satisfaction. no one gives a shit about your needs, you're only worth $20. 10 newbies enjoying domination are worth about 10 times as much.

fanboys such as yourself will continue to suck up to ID no matter how shitty things get in the end. :)

yeah, I am a fanboy because I do not feel entitled to what id Software doesn't do, and yet I like the things that they do do, and enjoy QuakeLive. sure, okey.

wow, why are you so full of shit? did you even play Q3? people cheated and no one 'ran out' of cdkeys. period. yeah, maybe you've never seen a good keygen, I'm sorry. when I wanted to play with someone else, all I did is change the last digit of my cdkey and it worked. amazingly hard? lol

that didnt work on 1.32 PB enabled servers sorry nt tho lol. you wouldve been kicked.

apparently i know how much professional programmers time is worth, and you don't. the maintenance is measured in time, and the person would have to keep working on it at least 20hours a week to keep up with the cheats. switching that person to other projects would be cost-deficient.

how many hours a week he works on updating it depends on how often hackers bother making public releases (which would probably be rare as eventually they would get tired of developing free hacks only for them to risk being detected shortly after). also it still doesnt explain how you come up with the 60k annual figure but ok. programmers work for free all the time, and iirc there was a guy who said he would develop an anticheat for free for QL not to long ago (chaplja or w/e). im sure thered be more people like him if ID gave ppl the chance to do so.

LOL, kind of like cheaters were shitting their pants while not giving a shit about PB in Quake3? you could suspect anyone of cheating, and you NEVER could be certain that they don't. blatant cheaters using shitty obvious cheats are just as obvious now and just as easily banned. so effectively you want to waste money on something that wouldn't even improve the current situation. very sound business advice to the business of id Software, I'm sure they appreciate it.

people cared enough about PB to have it ran on almost every server though. nuff said. any anticheat is always > no anticheat in any situation.

LOL, the internet. Google it.

lol thats what i thought

except far more people and potential new players care about this content far more than they care about some cheats that only a handful competitive players are so bothered about. it's a business decision, just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it pathetic. it makes you nonobjective blowhard.

its exactly this attitude and disregard for improving QL's competitive scene is the main reason why we're in the predicament that we're in. QL will never truly be as great of a competitive e-sport as q3, q2, qw, etc because of people who share your view. no anticheat lol..

that didnt work on 1.32 PB enabled servers sorry nt tho lol. you wouldve been kicked.

should have told that the hackers you would regularly see play, get detected, come back in a few days on the speakeasy servers. maybe they didn't know they weren't able to do that.

how many hours a week he works on updating it depends on how often hackers bother making public releases (which would probably be rare as eventually they would get tired of developing free hacks only for them to risk being detected shortly after).

this is not a matter of "probably". this was/is established pattern in Q3 with PB, CS, all other games. cheats are easily updated because breaking something is always easier than securing it.

it still doesnt explain how you come up with the 60k annual figure but ok.

a very competent c/c++/networking/windows/security programmer would cost more than $120k, including taxes.

programmers work for free all the time, and iirc there was a guy who said he would develop an anticheat for free for QL not to long ago (chaplja or w/e). im sure thered be more people like him if ID gave ppl the chance to do so.

again, you don't seem to understand how a software business functions. an anti-cheat system has should be closed source by nature, not to mention one integrated with an entire closed and distributed infrastructure with financial underpinnings such as QuakeLive. some "dude that volunteers for free because apparently he doesn't value his abilities enough, so lets give him access" isn't going to cut it.

people cared enough about PB to have it ran on almost every server though. nuff said. any anticheat is always > no anticheat in any situation.

that much is obvious, which is probably why we also heard that someone was trying to work on it on their time. it is obvious this means they simply choose not to put money in that.

lol thats what i thought

you should be googling, not thinking.

its exactly this attitude and disregard for improving QL's competitive scene is the main reason why we're in the predicament that we're in.

we are not in any 'predicament'. i do not disregard improving of QL competitive scene, I simply tell you that no one is entitled to it, and the competitive scene does not come first. however, a sure way to improve said competitive scene is to promote QLs positive aspects and sell it to newbies, thus giving id Software the financial incentive, because it is a BUSINESS, not a competitive scene charity. whether "QL will never truly be as great of a competitive e-sport as q3, q2, qw, etc" will depend on the players who don't even know what 'anticheat' is, and you certainly aren't helping.

i do not disregard improving of QL competitive scene, I simply tell you that no one is entitled to it, and the competitive scene does not come first.

thats disregarding it. everyone should be entitled to fair and honest competitive play, and yes, it should be on the top of their list. without a competitive scene u just have a bunch of newbs that will eventually get bored and quit, which is exactly whats happening in QL thanks to ID not implementing basic competitive necessities such as an online anticheat, lan servers, etc.

that much is obvious, which is probably why we also heard that someone was trying to work on it on their time.

haha, no, you are not entitled to a product in a capitalist society.
you also don't seem to get that without a mass of casual gamers there can be no subset of competitive gamers. creating and growing the mass is a prerequisite. how is this not obvious?

you also don't seem to get that without a mass of casual gamers there can be no subset of competitive gamers. creating and growing the mass is a prerequisite. how is this not obvious?

except ID has never actively tried to grow that mass of casual players at all for QL, and they are continuously driving away the small amount of casuals that they have with their lackluster business strategies and lack of basic competitive necessities. face it, quake is dead and it's mostly all their fault. instead of putting in the effort to further expand the franchise, they somehow manage to drive away a community of casuals players that they already had in the palm of their hands. pathetic.

what? this is exactly what they are trying to do with each update.
how the hell do you manage to tack on "and lack of basic competitive necessities." to the sentence about casual players?

everything they do you interpret as 'pathetic', this is exactly why you are impossible to satisfy, and you should be totally ignored. even if you have some good ideas, you would color them shit as soon as id would implement them.

face it, quake is alive and it's mostly all their fault. instead of putting in the effort to implement features majority of players don't give a shit about, they further expand the franchise, somehow manage to not drive away a community of casuals players with new FFA map and fun modes liked Domination.

thats because everything theyve been doing thus far has been pathetic. if this update happened 2 years ago it mightve been decent. now its poo.

with new FFA map and fun modes liked Domination.

lolol too bad none of this content will get any play after this week, guaranteed. all of it will be dead as fuck just like FT. domination and a&d are the only new modes that actually have some value to them (the rest of the content should actually be standard as they are less-valuable than the current standard gamemodes, especially that shitty harvester and 1-flag ctf TA garbage).

instead of developing crap that nobody will play, they shouldve spent that time on basic competitive necessities such as an anticheat which will help the game in the longrun!

the only relevant playerbase consists of those who get subscriptions. if you don't, gtfo. again, you're not entitled to a free service.

instead of developing crap that nobody will play, they shouldve spent that time on basic competitive necessities such as an anticheat which will help the game in the longrun!

again, you don't seem to understand what a capitalists market is. id Software's goal is not to get everyone to play for free, it is to churn a profit, and they are obviously making new content their product. if you don't want it, you don't have to get it. i do want it. if enough people want it, they can invest in less important features catering to the minority which is the competitive community. obviously they think investing in pretty FFA maps is a bigger return and a priority at this time, as there are way more of these people than those who care about anticheat. I am repeating myself a third time now, so I think it's pointless, you don't want to understand obvious things through your blind hate.

the only relevant playerbase consists of those who get subscriptions. if you don't, gtfo. again, you're not entitled to a free service.

lol yup, that approach and attitude of not giving a fuck about the bulk of your playerbase is the main dilemma this game has, especially considering the game is being marketed as a free to play service. its exactly this attitude that is shared by the entire id team which is why this game's playerbase will never grow.

again, you don't seem to understand what a capitalists market is. id Software's goal is not to get everyone to play for free, it is to churn a profit, and they are obviously making new content their product

if theyre goal was to churn a profit then they would be trying to actually grow their playerbase instead of driving people away with poor management decisions. in case you havent realized, the QL playerbase has been at a steady decline for some time now and ID has yet to do anything about it.

marketing is by definition misleading in order to maximize profits. are you seriously not getting this?

so by your supposed definition (and therefore ID's), marketing = misleading (scamming) the uneducated and misinformed in order to maximize profits? yeah i get it now. thanks for confirming everything people have been saying about QL for a while now. obvious scam is obvious. great marketing strategy there!

lol? yeah, 'marketing strategy' stands for 'present information in best light to optimize profits'. are you sure considering this is new to you that you are able to judge whether it's great or not? are you completely new to capitalism?

cd-keys in quake3 don't mean shit, you can get bcccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc or cbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb (or any 17 letter combination of 2 b c g d) and have it as your cd key. And having a "unique" cd key doesnt mean shit since most of quake3's current clientele is too mature for cheats, and every competitive community has an additional third-party anti-cheat software anyway. People change their cd-keys only to not be /rcon whois'ed on 1.32 mods.

I currently play 3 quake mods which together get as much playtime as quake live by me. I've played on pb&pure servers since 2006. Every CW (and alomst every PCW) is played with punkbuster. As a matter of fact, I had a clanwar yesterday. my cd-key is along the line of bggggggggggggggggggggggg or something. I didn't get kicked.

You are grossly misinformed about punkbuster, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

* The only instance of PB kicking you for banned cd-key is if you use a default one from a torrent or google, in which case it's probably been globally banned since hundreds and/or thousands of people have that CD key. Considering your level of stupidity in your every single post you've made, I would guess that is the case.

youre wrong, if you did tried this recently then well yeah its only not kicking you anymore because PB no longer supports q3 which means it no longer authenticates cdkeys/guids anymore. back when PB actually supported q3 you wouldve gotten kicked if you tried this.

here's a nice read i found from pbbans.com which details the whole thing a bit better:

Saturday January 4th, 2003. This new year marks the successful implementation of the new PunkBuster(TM) Guid Auth server system. Using the new PB Guid Auth servers, PB Servers will now be able to determine valid GUIDs from hacked or faked GUIDs and will be able to remove players who are not using a valid GUID/cdkey from games on PB Servers. We also will soon be implementing our new policy of globally banning GUIDs that are associated with PB Violations that involve known PB Hacks. Some cheats/hacks interfere with PBs ability to detect hacks/cheats, to take screenshots, to report cvar values, etc. Using such a hack is in direct violation of our End User License Agreement and terminates the license to use PunkBuster(TM) software. Starting today, any punks caught by PunkBuster(TM) using such a hack will be subject to global banning from all PB Servers without recourse. In conjunction with the new Guid Auth Server system, this provides the ability to further ensure that PB Servers provide the most cheat-free environment possible for honest players.

Well I'm very sorry to hear you're quitting and think you should reconsider. Just avoid playing against obvious cheats, but even playing against cheats can be rewarding as a challenge and really satisfying if you win. If they win they know they're cheating so really they're not getting much out of it and you just think "what an Rs". If you win, then imagine how crap they must feel - "WH and Trigger Bot, but still can't win... jeez I'm crap" and you'll feel great! And anyway I think most cheaters will give up more quickly than legit players, since it must be pretty boring using cheats.

But, I suppose you're not so bothered about the playing aspect of it as the competition side of it. It must be frustrating to stream and financially support competitions that you know are being won by teams that include cheaters. And on that front I feel for you. Maybe some of the streamers could subtley "out" some of the cheaters by specifically speccing suspect players and "politely" questioning some of the shots or decision making... Just an idea.

Anyway, if you do quit, I'd just like to say thanks for the competitions and streams you have supported - I've really enjoyed them.

you mean 90% of the community? If you have an account less then one year old...most likely your a cheat too.... if you have alts to evade skill matching or like to join a team to stack as the extra man...your a cheat.

its a good time to quit, u wont lose anything, they never got an anticheat going, the truth is that this game is hacked beyond reason and fair and even play it will never have.

after the last update i have lost all interest in it, stupid threads like this with people who care and get emotionaly, clueless people, nabs, whiners, whatever... screw it, there was never really any challenge in it to start with, the community is so diverese spawning over 15 years and everyone is thrown together in a skill system that is fucked up beyond belief. they cant fix it and neither can we.

theres alot of non gamers who watch this shit and they laugh of it all. i personally have been bored with quake live for the last 2 years but i kept on playing cause i basically grew up with it. its not sad, its a waste of time.

In the old days the community fixed and improved id's games. Lack of it is QL's endemic problem.

Well I think the same too. I don't enjoy QL as much as I enjoyed the prior games of the franchise, so I mostly play CA (which requires absolutely no effort) while doing other things.

What I'm playing right now is LoL, which essentially shows QL's misused potential and got me addicted with solo queue (btw I'm plat, if anyone wants to create an ESR clan or just play), and now GT academy 2012 on the PS3, which is a Gran Turismo f2p game that has several Time Trials and challenges.

ok i will cut you some slack just cause you talk like a 9 year old and stalk people on the internet.

give me your honest opinion on why you think i suck and i will + you if i agree with you. i dont know who you are but i know when ppl talk like you and act like everything is ok when i know that you are the ones who are hurt and really the ones who needs a tissue. and dont try so hard, you end up looking like an idiot.

if you cant pickpcket in poland then you are not polish! seriously, polish people have no respect for the modern world and rules and regulations, and brazil has some of the biggest crimes and criminals in the world.

if the police catches you in poland driving a car drunk, you can say it was your sisters wedding and you are free to go lol.

u sound like a cheating fuck.

Really? I'm the 9 year old :D? You sound like a fucking redneck full of prejudices.
I don't know how good you are. I just assume it from reading your posts and the fact that I never heard from you ;) Glad that people like u quit the game no-one needs super duper elitist fucktards who accuse every newcomer of cheating. I had already enough of that shit in cs. Not that I want to become pro but I can't stand the fucking paranoia.
Why can long time players never accept that newcomers can improve to a point where they are even better? Tell me? Why the hate? Dunno how many already called me a cheater in quake but it have been quite a lot and I'm not nearly good enough to be called a cheater. The com would be so much better without all the paranoia but I guess no matter which shooter you play you'll always get the same shit. Yeah I know there are quite a lot of hackers but I can count the suspicious ones (duel) on one hand and these are easily avoidable by just not playing them.

the paranoia is in ur head buddy, i never accused anyone of cheating, i said u SOUND like a cheat... u understand the difference?

I have actually been to poland and speak from experience, and whatever you make out of it thats up to you and the paranoia in your head when ppl accuse you.

the sand in vagina comment does sound like a 9 year old, dont let it get to your head, after 15 years of quake i never let it get to mine, i drift off quake simply cause im bored of all the shit they dont fix, no other reason, not of the cheats, cheats are a minor issue to me.

did i say anything about ELO? and what fucking good is ELO for when the skillmatching is broken u fuckwit. dumb ass fuckers like yourself who fucked this game up... you find ELO pretty accurate, who the fuck gives a shit.

whats with the crying comment from both of them? they sound hurt... either they are noobs trying to act cool or they are wannabees who doesnt give a shit and act like assholes with the tissue comment... i picked the latter.

take a look at ffx now, he thinks i suck... lol, i dont know who these guys are but i think i have some idea... used to people saying i suck when i have no idea who they are... Even tho u suck. And I think u suck.

ELO = community driven skillmatching. You can either use qlprism.us and have it built in or use a ingame script.
Simple as that and play vs your elo range. At this point most of the guys playing duel know about it.
Not rly sure what is the issue here and your line "what good is elo when skillmatching is fucked up" - LOL?!

I noticed you call mostly anyone here cheating fuck so i guess you are trolling or just plain stupid. In any case type less.

no. fuck it. i dont have time to explain it and waste my time on explaining this bs any more, it just ends up with more discussion which solves nothing, id has stated before that they cant force skillmatching in tiers on people because theres not enough players bs, free choice in who you play with even if its elo, bored of it and wasting my time on explaining shit that is never gonna happen, have beaten this dead rock enough, if it was up to me quake would have been bigger than battlefield and mw3 combined, i know its 10 times a better of a game, not more appealing, but a better game, ea and dice just knew how to win over people with their warfare bullshit that kids buy into cause its REAL and there are EXPLOSION and MASS DESTRUCTION, people are just clueless about it because when you start off as a gamer you are affected by the visual aspect of everything and by the word and affection of your fellow mates, i even find some of that retardness has come to quake with quake live, big reason of why im fed up on this game, id trying to make it popular, people dont understand it, lol, kamikaaaaaaze!, when you get into quake the mechanics of it can not be matched by any other game, thats how i know, sure elo work as skillmatching, but still it doesnt force or prevent people and the skillmatching to happen, its basically the same thing as in quake live, anyone can play anyone and they dont give a shit about whos who and yadda yadda yadda. maybe another time.

keep on throwing in medals, awards and visual ranks in the game, but as soon as you delude people with that just make sure it contains more of what any other fps out there has, ppl buy into that shit. gl.

Honestly I watched the first half of the video and saw nothing that would alarm me. He "could" be cheating, but not obvious, and the things he was doing is normal for any experienced player. But what do I know.

Ok watched the new clip you posted. The only part that could be a cheat in any way would be the very last clip. Even then, it could have just been sound cues. The other clips are complete garbage to call any sort of cheat. I hate cheaters just as much as anyone, but this is severely inconclusive.

lol willie, are you mad bro?
How many times we played against you and it wasnt 0:10 and etc.
So why he became noob? If he outplayed you in ctf, its not the reason for such accusing.
Take a short break out of ql and come back with clear head.

Yes, and i found nothing strange there.
In the first moment there was a rocket which show your position.
In 2nd there was a sound of a switching weapon above him,
3rd - just a 2 frags, whats weird there?
4th - spamming nades in door infront? who dont use it?

A little visit on google after a comment from sponge informed me that quake live hacks stopped working when QL got updated. Of course, maybe they didn't all stop working, but with the massive engine changes that came with this update, it would be surprising.

But I didn't think the guy in this video was cheating anyway. The only suspect part was at the very end and that's far from enough for me. If you can get someone banned for this, you better ban everyone.

Are we really allowed to post that here? I mean, it's not QL's forum, but it's still linking to cheats... I suggest you to google it and look for recent interventions. I did it easily, you will too.

By the way, it looks like at least one of them seems to be back. Or rather it wasn't really down but I think they added some kind of security system that the fuckers couldn't understand and make it work. Anyway, it doesn't look like much people were able to cheat at the time this match took place.

Oh, and my intention was to tell you he was most likely not hacking. Also, I really don't think it looks like he cheats in the video. Sure he looks through walls, but have you noticed that he always does, even when he just can't see the enemies? (Q3/QL servers only send players position when they become susceptible to be visible or make noise) Also, sound. I loled hard when you highlighted the moment when he looked up toward lg where an enemy was being very noisy there.

imo you rationalize your want to quit the game, with a little drama (I think this because your reasoning is almost absurd, so it seems you have some hidden agenda to quit).

It's really ok to quit something which you might have realized is not anymore beneficial to your life and future. Your ego might feel it needs rationalization, but the wish or decision was already made before that cheat accusation whatever, wasn't it?

I'm not a native speaker, so excuse any ill choice of words or phrases. (the Us flag is just for troll purposes)

Rationalize means you decide without a legitimate reason, then your concious decides it needs a reason for said decision, because it does not accept it on pure feel.
Hidden agenda would be the real, legitimate reason(s), but not the one you come up with on the fly.
I mean everyone does that all the time, but in your case it just hit me in the face that cannot possibly be the sole reason.

To enjoy something to the fullest is what I mean by beneficial. Sometimes you hold on to things you once loved just because they give you security, but really you want excitement again.

I played alot of 2on2 with Thasmo, was a teammate at q++ and i know him well (we live in the same city) - i´m 100% convinced he is a person who would NEVER use wh etc.
its accidently looking like wh but in fact he isnt using it - noone can prove, but i´m 100% sure he is not guilty :)

nowaday,you cannot trust players even if you know that they dont cheat (unless you know them for years),you can see cheaters everyday in QL,even if some get banned,still not enough,an anticheat is needed and must be forced for everyone (not premium or pro only).
the Anticheat must be updated everyweek ( or every time a new hack is discovered) cause,in the 1st week of the realise of the AC,alot and alot of ppl will get banned and the ammount of players will be reduced,but after a few weeks,some ppl will try to make some hacks and try to by-pass the anticheat,so thats why the anticheat must be updated at least every week or month.

but,there is still no anticheat in QL ( ID said that they are making it,i thought they will add it in the update of the 1st mai cause they said that it will be a big update,but they didnt ) so right now,just play with the players that you trust,and if you think that someone cheats,just make a demo,but an anticheat is really needed.

Q2's anticheat was made by one guy (Purri implies it was more than one, no idea) and it worked flawlessly for several years, until he stopped updating it.
I'm sure the community could take care of that, as they've been doing since Quake1, but id chose to make everything and we ended up with nothing.

Also it seems someone is working on it on his spare time. I remember reading it here but no idea about the specific thread.

eh no,R1ch made an anticheat and it is currently forced in most euro servers,all players have to use it,nocheat is way too old and it already got hacked (using nocheat sometimes means that you are cheating),but like i said,no one use nocheat anymore in Q2,we use anticheat.

nocheat was a different anticheat, which I agree was pretty bad. There were plenty of clients that had similar features, but r1ch's was the best one by far and it was compatible with multiple clients (r1q2, aprq2 and another one).
All those prior clients had to be forced in servers, so they share the same problem.

I wouldn't play in a q2 server without r1ch's anticheat, if it still works.. Also there are still finnish servers.

Yeah, well I didnt want to bring this out and I dont wanna expose anyone on national level, but this just calls for a respond.The problem was following that majority of cheaters were from Finland.Their scene was of so huge scale that they could live playing on their own, they didnt need foreigners to play cws/leagues.So they could easily reject r1ch AC, there was no problem in forcing on .de/.nl servers and even on slovenian that still stands till this day it has r1ch on.Im pretty sure they had intern aggrement that they dont cheat vs each other and only vs foreigners etc. but thats another story.. all of these servers you see there like Clan {uNi} and such are without r1ch.And as said last time I played r1ch wasnt hacked, I also remember it had cool cmd call where every player responded with gl_driver, the cheater usually returned in gl_wh.dll or smth like that, would be enough for ql.

Why should you quit? The good thing about quake is that a cheater doesn't get anything, unlike in a rpg where it's really unfair.. but quake? You just come to shoot around and feel good about it and i bet you got a bunch of friends to play with, so it's all good :)

If you want to accuse someone you should put more effort into it and make sure. Provide the amount of footage that csiql used to show. If you don't then it's not really fair on anyone. You are asking people's opinion based on so little.

What if he doesn't cheat? It's not good to ruin someone's reputation on a hunch or a couple of clips.

Well in that case I'd admit I could be wrong since for some reason I got the impression it was wallhack we were looking for, I didn't look much at aim. Anyway I intended to look at whole video but it's removed, so whatever :)

playing only official matches now so idk momental state in tdm, in past there was few suspiciousness - but lack of evidence. I`m referring to the duel scene, played it after year and first d00d i meet on public had autoshoot and wh... i can`t be more mad :3.

Just so you know I checked your demos and guess what... Yes! They were clean. I am glad as I know you atleast didn't cheat people in the league. As for the games you played recently I still think you wall hacked.funnly enough there isn't any moments in any of your CTF demos (official) looking like what we see in the video above.

Anyway I have left this community till AC comes to save me the paranoia, hope you enjoy your free Time to cheat unchallenged ! Hf

1, uninstall quake live
2, find a game that is less fun / skill demanding but you still can enjoy it to some extent, like cs, tribes, cod, dota whatever. you will count as midskill in these games automatically so dont worry. my personal choice was cs.
3, youll now have a lot of free time, as these games not entertaining enough to spend countless hours on them every day, but still serves well to have some fun over 1-1,5 hours when you roll a joint at 23pm
4, use this time to turn your life around for the better, find a girl, work out, spend more time with your friends, do something productive and finally become a decent young adult, instead of a late-teenager.

i grew up with quake, it was an important part of my life, but as it is currently with all the cheaters, ragers, whiners, quitters, the usual paranoia around the whole game, and other smaller but still significant problems dealing with these just occupies too big part of our total playtime and just ruins the whole experience. when i first tought about how much time i spend dealing with the above mentioned anomalies and how much playing and having a good time i got really saddened. its a simple, but not as easy decision to make, but you can trust me when a few months passed youll be glad you not hesitated any further.

after watching the demo, i can say that there are alot of things which speak against a WH:

- he doesn't react to anything, where he shouldn't have cues of
- he doesn't seem to gain anything even if he was using a WH
- he reacts to soundcues wrongly, even tho he could safely react right to them when he had a WH
- for the suspicious scenes, he idd had cues for(where he shoots in the wall at 1:30 of the vid at the nade spamming enemy, it just looks like a failed rail cornershot, and the last scene of the vid he can hear the enemy moving away from him)

0.56: he was already aware of his two mates rushing in from the other side. maybe he waited for them to rush together and the two enemy track behind the wall was *casual.
or he turned his mouse right to enjoy his wall picmip settings.
or this is quite suspect.

1.32: dunno if he heard any noise, i don't have headphones right now. btw, it *could happen.