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Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Yeah, it is completely shocking that I would want to see the guy who is likely to be the better player of the two THIS YEAR, play more.

Mesoraco is a better hitter than Hanigan is, I don't care what he did in September (where his BABIP was under .200) or in some practice games. It isn't about him being a prospect or a young guy. It has to do with him being the better player. Just like Chapman, who I want starting in Louisville, because him getting acclimated and experience in that role is far more important and valuable to the Reds future than what he is being used as right now. Sure, maybe Hanigans overall value can be similar to that of Mesoraco this year when we look at the whole package, but that also means in the future we are likely to wait longer to see the full package from Mesoraco because he went out and got 300 PA's this year instead of 450. Mesoraco isn't some meddling prospect, he was the best catching prospect in the game for the last two seasons.

If you throw Mesoraco to the wolves at the start of the season I think his development in 2012 will be slowed. Its not that he has to focus just on hitting, he needs to learn an entire new staff. Its hard enough to get your feet wet in the majors let alone be forced to call a game or catch a pitcher that you only have done a few times before in you career.

I don't have an issue with Hanigan getting 3 games for Mesoraco's 2 at the start of the season. I do think that as the season goes along Mecoraco is going to warrant more and more pt. Is there anything wrong with that? Its not like they are running Paul Bako or Corky Miller out there 3 out of 5 days, its Hanigan who is a pretty darn good catcher in his own right, and also a catcher who knows how to find 1b better than any Red not named Votto.

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

If you throw Mesoraco to the wolves at the start of the season I think his development in 2012 will be slowed. Its not that he has to focus just on hitting, he needs to learn an entire new staff. Its hard enough to get your feet wet in the majors let alone be forced to call a game or catch a pitcher that you only have done a few times before in you career.

Throwing someone to the wolves means they aren't ready. Mesoraco is ready. Mesoraco has caught everyone on the staff 10+ times aside from Arroyo and perhaps some of the relievers, which the same holds true for Hanigan.

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Originally Posted by VR

Mes tore up AAA last year. Not the same as the bigs. Paul Janish hit two bombs last night for Louisville against starters who aren't good enough to be in the major leagues.

Ah yes, comparing Mesoraco in AAA at 23 to Janish at 29 over a span of 1 game in AAA.... Janish in his AAA career has a .686 OPS. Mesoraco has been the best catching prospect two years running in all of baseball. You don't get there because you only feast on bad pitching. Professional scouts tend to have a good idea of guys who aren't going to be able to hit MLB pitching and rank those guys accordingly (which is why we see a guy like Neftali Soto or Juan Francisco hit home runs everywhere and yet never sniff the Top 100 prospect lists).

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Ah yes, comparing Mesoraco in AAA at 23 to Janish at 29 over a span of 1 game in AAA.... Janish in his AAA career has a .686 OPS. Mesoraco has been the best catching prospect two years running in all of baseball. You don't get there because you only feast on bad pitching. Professional scouts tend to have a good idea of guys who aren't going to be able to hit MLB pitching and rank those guys accordingly (which is why we see a guy like Neftali Soto or Juan Francisco hit home runs everywhere and yet never sniff the Top 100 prospect lists).

And yet....all all those professional scouts, managers and GMs would tell you that the prescribed approach Dusty is taking is the right path for someone like Mes.....especially when he is sharing time with an exceptional major league receiver, who provided an acceptable bat when he is in there.

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

My premise is that Mesoraco will be every bit as good as Hanigan this year and much better in the future, so splitting time or even giving Hanigan more time right now is just a bad choice.

Chapman... I will leave it for the other threads.

First, consider the source (e.g. other team's announcer's, appear to be paraphrasing) that have sprung this discussion. Second, I am sure your premise is based on sound assumptions, but there is also a lot of merit of not overwhelming a rookie catcher. This is a huge step forward, maybe he's all that, but Hanigan is also a very good defensive catcher and is an above average bottom of the order offensive performer. Dusty's handling has a lot of merit, and quite honestly Doug, you are showing of pattern of "Dusty's idea, I'm agin it (spit)"

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Throwing someone to the wolves means they aren't ready. Mesoraco is ready. Mesoraco has caught everyone on the staff 10+ times aside from Arroyo and perhaps some of the relievers, which the same holds true for Hanigan.

Your assuming Mesoraco is ready based upon what? He is ready to take over the most difficult defensive position on the field and should just have the job handed over to him carte blanche?

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Challange thy hitters. Letting young players "learn" (largely by osmosis) in the major leauges is a waste of resources. I would rather find out what we have in Mes now instead of spreading it out over the next couple of years. 300 pa's can only START giving you any kind of baseline. He needs 400-500 pa's this year between the majors and minors.

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Your assuming Mesoraco is ready based upon what? He is ready to take over the most difficult defensive position on the field and should just have the job handed over to him carte blanche?

Based upon his skillset. He has good plate discipline, makes contact at a solid rate and has above-average power. Those things all suggest he is ready to produce, especially at a weak hitting position like catcher.

As for his defense, reports on his defense have been good for a while now.

I don't want him starting 140 games, but a 100-62 split for Mesoraco makes a lot more sense than a 100-62 Hanigan split.

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Frankly I could care less about his abs, I want him to get used to the stress and the mental grind of big league ball and mastering the hardest position in the game. Plus no catcher lives long without sharing some time, if he's the stud he should be then the time will gravitate to him. Hanigan is not a large guy he will experience wear and he has experience with much if the staff, experience not gleaned in ten games nor fifty

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Based upon his skillset. He has good plate discipline, makes contact at a solid rate and has above-average power. Those things all suggest he is ready to produce, especially at a weak hitting position like catcher.

As for his defense, reports on his defense have been good for a while now.

I don't want him starting 140 games, but a 100-62 split for Mesoraco makes a lot more sense than a 100-62 Hanigan split.

I guess that gets back to what Dusty meant by his comment. Since we're "analyzing" third hand info, who knows.

Re: Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco

Do you care to explain why you know that Hanigan is the better hitter except for power? I don't really know if I believe that. And even if I did, power is a big part of offense.

Easy - Hanigan is more disciplined, patient and has a better approach. His biggest drawback as a hitter is plain and simple. He has next to no power. (I agree that is a big drawback) He makes consistent contact, strikes out fairly infrequently and has a very good on base percentage. Behind the dish he handles the pitchers well, they seem to respond to him and he is a solid defender.

Mesaraco still struggles sometimes behind the plate, although he is making very fast strides and has improved amazingly in the past year alone. He also is occasionally overmatched at the plate by big league pitchers - that's to be expected and I don't have a problem with him struggling a bit, but that's why I think its best to ease him into the primary role. Keep the pressure off him, let him start when Dusty feels he has a good match up and sit when he feels he may be up against a pitcher that might be tougher for him to handle. Put him in positions to succeed. Hanigan is NOT a 130-140 game a year catcher so Mesoraco is going to get a lot of time in whether he is nominally called the primary catcher or not!

We'll just disagree I guess on which is a better hitter right now - but I have no doubt at all that Mesoraco will be much better in the future- the near future, and this phasing in is part of the development. A good part, imo. You have your opinion, I have mine. I respect your opinions and views but nothing you've pointed out about Mes or Ryan changes my opinion in this case. Probably luckily for the Reds, neither of us actually makes the decisions.

Also, I predict it will end up being more like 80 games each instead of 100-62 for either. Hanigan will have more starts in the early months, Mesoraco, more starts in the second half.

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