Changed the yellow key puzzle to make it more noticeable which switches "work", and did misc. texture alignment. Still need feedback on the fights (health balance primarily)

Cool, yellow key puzzle its a bit easier now. I made my way to the fights - that first one is evil, it took me ages to work out a method for it, and lots of saving and dying. Its possible though, dunno how you are meant to do it, I ended up luring one of the archviles out to kill it, then hack around the outside collecting ammo and carving a path through monsters with the shotgun until everyone is gathered in the middle and just keep running around in a circle picking them off. The revs weren't so bad, grabbing a handful and chasing them around the middle whittling them down. I have to say that the rocket launcher wasn't much use in any of the fights for me, with the confined spaces to fight in, that might just be me and my bad aim though. Health wasn't a problem, the main hardship was the lack of room to maneuver (no amount of health could save me from getting trapped by imps and demons in the first fight, I think there must be a better technique I need to find for that).

Thanks for the feedback mouldy. Due to playtesting it so much, I actually find the first fight very manageable and usually my routine is to move as much as possible and whittle them down, then wait for the AV cage to open, snag the RL, and I usually have enough shots to clear my way to them. The longer they survive the more brutal the battle gets, since they can rez guys faster than you can down them, making them primary targets. It's really rough in the beginning (especially when you're unprepared for the second wave of imps) but hopefully it should be fine for everyone else.

Shame that the rev finale isn't as nasty, but I honestly can't think of what else to do to it, seeing as strafing around the middle column is, and will always be, the smartest technique to dealing with them.

Thanks for the FDA. I laughed that you actually brute forced both puzzles. The torch teleporters aren't meant to be used once each, as the "clock" symbol is found two other times in the level to indicate that there's an actual progression you're supposed to take by observing from the torches in those rooms (hence the numbers). Perhaps I'll change a torch in the normal exit progression to stop people from thinking that.

Also, because I'm curious how you'll fare in the fights, I uploaded a version that starts you basically at them: http://www.mediafire.com/?402tk12g5oeb570. Only major difference is you won't have the ~50% additional health from the bonuses

fda for ironfight. though I suppose it's not a completely blind fda, I read some posts about AVs guarding a RL, and a central pillar full of revs, so I had a general idea of what to expect.

Anyways, pretty interesting fights. there's probably a more sensible way to beat the first one, but I settled on just circlestrafing the room until I had a chance to pick off the AVs, then clear everything out.

the big central area is awesome looking. I love the ceiling detail, great stuff. The fight was pretty interesting too, it's risky to use rockets out in the lava because of all the pillars you could risk killing yourself with blast damage, but the abundance of health allows the player to be agressive and attempt it anyways. The boxes of shells acted funny, I couldn't see them.. or rather I saw flashes of them for a few frames, pretty weird.. I unknowingly walked over a box or two during the fight.

Overall a very cool map. I didn't read the OP or anything so I don't know much about this project, but it hardly feels like a map that was made by someone new to doom mapping, fights are balanced, architecture is extremely polished... the only aspect that seemed "novice" to me was the tendency towards experimental and borderline frustrating puzzles, which is in no way a direct result of mapping inexperience... but I haven't played any other submissions for this project yet so I probably have the wrong idea of what to expect.

Ribbiks said:I didn't read the OP or anything so I don't know much about this project, but it hardly feels like a map that was made by someone new to doom mapping, fights are balanced, architecture is extremely polished...

To be honest, after playing the first 11 maps a while back none of them felt or looked like noob maps to me. In fact it was the quality of them that convinced me to get involved myself. Then again, the first post is dated 2011 so that's given people a while to get the hang of it I guess.

Keep in mind though, some of the the earlier maps like 'Hazard Facility' were updated extensively after detailed suggestions by more experienced mappers/testers such as Snakes, and there were a lot of maps by newbies who only ever posted a few early screenshots and disappeared. That, and at the beginning we were inundated by scraps and unfinished maps that people thought we could use and make into something (most, we didn't), it was only later on that we started getting a steady flow of complete maps coming through and the project began to be taken more seriously by a wider group of people, the time that all took to happen is one of the reasons why this project has been going on for nearly 2 years now.

Hmmm, I just came across an older and very unattractive E4 wannabe map I half completed back 3 years ago when I was still a newbie... maybe I can upload it and someone can pick it up? Newbie collaboration? :P

Feel free. We already have one other half-finished map though (River of Blood) and everyone seems to be hard at work at making their own maps from scratch so it might not be picked up by someone else right away but it's always good to have more contributions.

Should be the final version of Power Corehttp://speedy.sh/pxHhX/Power-Core.wad
Got rid of the stupid exit thing plus a load of other stuff including making the mastermind in the metal 1 area hopefully a little more threatening.

cannonball said:Should be the final version of Power Corehttp://speedy.sh/pxHhX/Power-Core.wad
Got rid of the stupid exit thing plus a load of other stuff including making the mastermind in the metal 1 area hopefully a little more threatening.

thats a great map, wwhere is the music from? It sounds really familiar..

well I opened doom builder for once and started work on some kind of big cave level!!!
Here's the first area it'll have loads of ways around the place but I am making the rooms and stuff before putting monsters http://i.imgur.com/J409so8.png
if this is the wrong approach to mapping lemme hear it!!
also let me know if the picture looks horrible or something throw me some tips if you think it'll help
very early stages but I'll let you know when it's playable! I want to make it a pretty big level

Hey guys, am making significant progress on my first map of which I am extremely proud of. I would like to join this project but I'm afraid my map is made for Doom 1, not Doom 2. It is vanilla-only and uses only stock textures and I would like it to remain that way because I think it's very beneficial to my mapping skill.

DooM_RO said:Hey guys, am making significant progress on my first map of which I am extremely proud of. I would like to join this project but I'm afraid my map is made for Doom 1, not Doom 2. It is vanilla-only and uses only stock textures and I would like it to remain that way because I think it's very beneficial to my mapping skill.

You can easily just change the map settings in Doombuilder 2 by pressing F2 and changing the game type to "Doom 2". We have no new textures and our megawad is limit removing so I think yours will fit in fine here.

Also, nub-hat, I don't see why we couldn't throw deathmatch starts in, but some of the maps might be particularly imbalanced regarding it.

You can easily just change the map settings in Doombuilder 2 by pressing F2 and changing the game type to "Doom 2". We have no new textures and our megawad is limit removing so I think yours will fit in fine here.

Also, nub-hat, I don't see why we couldn't throw deathmatch starts in, but some of the maps might be particularly imbalanced regarding it.

I would prefer maps to have co-op + deathmatch starts than not. I actually wouldn't mind going through all the maps in July and adding them if they aren't already there just for the sake of completeness.

I'm pretty sure both my maps have co-op starts but no added extras. I could add deathmatch starts if necessary but really the maps won't be suited to it and I'm too lazy to do something proactive about it :P

My maps have co-op starts, but nothing for deathmatch. I've never played in deathmatch mode, and know nothing about how they work, so I might need some pointers and lessons on how it differs from single player and co-op (besides the obvious), for when I tweak them for deathmatch mode.

Arjak said:My maps have co-op starts, but nothing for deathmatch. I've never played in deathmatch mode, and know nothing about how they work, so I might need some pointers and lessons on how it differs from single player and co-op (besides the obvious), for when I tweak them for deathmatch mode.

DM mode spawns are random I think, you will randomly spawn at any of the DM starts so remember to have them all over the map (not literaly)

Unless there's a map that simply doesn't work in deathmatch mode, I'd rather have the starts anyway even if the map isn't quite suited to that form of gameplay. Apart from the starts, one can also add deathmatch only flagged weapons and pickups to enhance gameplay like I've done with Hazard Facility.

I've added COOP and DM starts to all mine, and I don't consider a map to be finished without them.

A nice trick with DM starts in a large map is to place all the DM starts in an area that maybe doesn't open up until later in the map, thereby scaling down an otherwise large map into a smaller area. I've done this on two of my maps.

one important thing for DM is that players should not be able to camp in one place where no one else can get to.
if there is an inaccessible area you should either make it accessible somehow or avoid putting DM starts in it
if you have any w1 teleports you could consider changing them to wr
don't make any changes that you think will diminish the single player experience though. that should be the main focus of the wad