Rabbi Andrew Baker

Rabbi Andrew Baker joined AJC in 1979 and is now director of International Jewish Affairs. A leading expert on anti-Semitism in Europe and on challenges facing Jewish communities, including Holocaust restitution issues, he travels around the world to deepen and expand the extensive network of relationships between AJC and Jewish communities worldwide.

Henry Grunwald

Henry Grunwald is the current president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews.

Benedikt Haller

Benedikt Haller is First Special Envoy for Anti-Semitism and Holocaust Affairs at the German Foreign Ministry.

Joseph Mendels

Joseph Mendels is the Chair of the Anti-Semitism Task Force.

Fred Pressner

Fred Pressner is the President of the Confederacion de Asociaciones Israelitas de Venezuela (CAIV), the umbrella organization for the nation's Jewish communities.

Gregg Rickman

Gregg Rickman was sworn in as the Secretary of State's Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism on May 22, 2006. In this position, he is responsible for the global monitoring of acts of anti-Semitism and anti-Semitic incitement and the creation of policies to combat such acts.

Topic of today's panel, strategies in combating anti-Semitism, obviously follows very logically on theluncheon session which we just completed, where many of the issues that which we are concerned withwere laid out with considerable, in considerable detail and sometimes with some passion. The 21stcentury has really seen a the increasing emergence of a variant on the old disease of anti Semitism,the classical anti-Semitism of Christ killer or somebody panting kill the Jews on the lavatory wall andthen embellishing it that with a swastika. Those things still occur, but they tend to be isolated and relatively easy to control.What we face now as we heard so eloquently over the last couple of hours is a new illness. It's anillness in which the traditional anti-Semitism is emerging with anti Israel, anti-Zionist feelings, theboundaries between the two are becoming increasingly blurred while this has been probably on thedevelopment for a long time. It probably, it's likely that the breakdown of the Middle East peace talksin 2000, followed by the infamous United Nations sponsored Durban Conference has led to a mainstreaming of the problem, has led to a situation in which condemnation of Israel, of those who supportIsrael and very often by implication, the Jews, has lead to this becoming an increasingly politicallycorrect position, especially on the left wing, often in academia. We have seen increasing efforts tolaunch boycotts of one type or another against Israel by the very people, by the very groups who 20,30, 40 years ago or probably at that stage, strongest supporters and this main streaming. Thisemergence of a politically correct form of anti-Israel, anti Semitism is a problem that we need toconfront head-on today. We had eloquently put in the last hour, the need for a adopting a moreassertive position, words do matter, words do kill.The American Jewish Committee has long been involved in this fight, it was formed to- assess the Jewsoccasion of and we are at the time of a major problem and ever since then quietly behind the scenes butoften very effectively, it has played a significant role in combating outbreaks of anti Semitism. AndyBaker, who is the AJCs Director of International Jewish affairs and who will be moderating today'spanel has been one of the central people involved in a very important dialogue that's been going on inEurope over the last decade leading to the OSCE adopting a working definition of anti-Semitism,making sure that many European governments stay alert to the problem, often talking quietly to thepeople with putting their feet to the fire. He and others on the AJC continue to find new ways to ensurethat the problem receives the attention it deserves. But this is not a problem that the AJC can or shouldsolve by itself and that is why we have gathered an international panel for you today where hopefullythe participants of the panel will present something of what's happening in their own areas and moreimportantly present ideas of how this problem can best be approached. Andy.Joe, thank you very much. Welcome to all of you and what really is our opening session of thisInternational Leadership Conference weekend, I am going echo what Joe was saying at the beginningtoo. There are seats closer to the front. Sometimes I think it's like the synagogue where those frontseats, front rows are always empty but if you'd like - you are welcome to move them. We wanted topresent to you in a rather informal way and that's why we've not asked any of our panelists to prepareremarks, more a kind of informal conversation on how to deal with the problem. Now, I mean, weheard to some extent from the previous speakers in this previous session take on the probleminternationally today. You, I others here may agree, may feel it is put properly, too strongly emphasishere, emphasis there, but I think there is no question that all of us have come to recognize there is aproblem today that we had not imagined less than a decade ago would so engage us, would be such aconcern and an international concern confronting Jewish communities, really throughout the world.Today this afternoon we want to try to get out what are some of the approaches one can take.Governments, international organizations, Jewish communities, links, that tie our Jewish communitiestogether - to address this problem, not only defining it, not only exhorting people to wake up to theconcerns, but how do we really deal with it and so we have today Gregg Rickman, who - only slightlyless than year ago was appointed as the special envoy for combating, for monitoring and combatinganti Semitism at the US department of state. We have a Henry Grunwald, a barrister - it sounds in thistown much better than saying an attorney but the president of the British Board of Deputies. Heinstructed us too, it's an organization that well we would like to think of our long life at the AmericanJewish Committee celebrating over a hundred years. He has got us beat by more than twice. It'sfounding goes back to the 18th century. So the concern, the interest and the representation of Britishjury is something that is now Henry's responsibility but it comes in a long chain, a long tradition.Benedikt Haller, Ambassador Haller comes to us from the German Foreign Office. He is here as aspecial envoy as well to work with the Jewish communities. He too is responsible for the concerns ofanti-Semitism, also for issues relating to confronting the holocaust and the international task force on the holocaust.Fred Pressner is known to many people here, he was been with us at the previous meetings for aconsiderable time in 1990s was the President, the Chairman of the Jewish Community in Venezuela,businessman, a community leader in coming here today, he will bring with him certainly reflectionson how the politics in Venezuela these last few years with Hugo Chavez have really changed theenvironment and what impact it has on, not only the community in Venezuela but I think more broadlyin Latin America. If I could I want to start with Gregg and Gregg what I would ask you is this weindicated it's been an year now since your appointment. I think, it was probably more than a year thatCongress had passed legislation to create that office before you were even hired and - there at the sametime, as we know, the US Government Congress, others have helped focus on this issue. There were alot of questions raised whether within the workings of the State Department, the formal - diplomaticCenter of the United States of US policy, there would be a place for you, a place for someone really tocome in to be a kind of activist voice. Again not simply to monitor the problem but to combat theproblem, so perhaps you can tell us how does it work now? That you have support and now that youare monitoring what seems to be the most serious of the problems as you see it and then when comes tocombating, are you getting the support, where does it need to be brought?Andy, I think, in the year that I have been there I have no complaints about my support. I have I wasfirst of all sworn in by the Secretary who offered me all these support that I needed and I have receivedthat. I am my office is based in the bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. I have a veryhelpful Assistant Secretary, Barry Lowenkron who has extended all the help to me that I need. Mostimportantly we have in the State Department as anyone who has a position a global position like this.I have to my benefit the Embassy system. The Ambassadors throughout the world have been very, veryhelpful in identifying issues, approaching the government in question. Repeatedly maintaining thosecontacts following up on the issues at multiple levels and many times identifying incidents andproblems before I can read about them or hear about them from someone else. I probably have moreproblems ordering paper and pens than I have anything else and I am being very serious. As far as theissues that we see, and I don't mean to make light of it but the business comes to us.We have had so many events just this week, some of them, centered in France. Jewish man was stabbedin the shoulder at a kosher restaurant just about two three days ago. Less than a week before that ayoung lady in Marseille was brutally assaulted and had a swastika carved into her stomach. In that casewhen Andy you ask about what we can do and what our embassies can do in this case, we had ourConsulate General in Marseille look at this, get the government mobilized. There is one thing I can doin approaching the French Embassy here in Washington which we did do and they have responded. Butit's to be able to get our Consulate Generals or our Ambassadors engaged on the ground in the countryand in this case in Marseille they followed it up, they made very clear our concern, the USGovernment's concern and even made an approach to the young lady and her family that when I - infact you go there next week, that I would like to in fact meet her. That hasn't been granted yet and I understand why.But where it's a system in place. Part of it is an education and letting people and embassies know thatwe are here and that we are not going away. And when you talk about combating it's the idea of whenevents happen, and although this is somewhat reactive, we go to these embassies, we go to see theAmbassadors, we call their aids, we talk to them and we tell them this happened. What is your countrydoing about it? What is the status of the investigation? We want to know. And we are going to keepasking questions. Part of the problem and part of the or I should say part of the strategy is to just letpeople know we are there and that we're doing something and that we're seeing and watching whatthey are doing. And whereas you may have this in the embassies, as I said, but from coming fromWashington they are hearing about it in their own embassies and they have to report back that this isbeing asked off them by this Department of State.Henry we had the chance, some of us at AJC to speak with you and other representatives of the JewishCommittee in the UK at the beginning of the day. We recognize that there is been as a yourcommunity has reported in increasing the incidents of anti Semitism. There is a significant publicitythat has been given to efforts to undertake boycotts of the State of Israel, the part of academic union,journalist union, potentially now trade union. Some of these events quickly broadcast around the worldhave elicited responses from other organizations in the United States, elsewhere in the world. You havea certain sense of certainly what the community is confronting in the UK, but I think you also havesense of how you must react when those of us abroad or others concerned about what we read orwhat we hear. Also feel it's it's their place to interject to speak. Tell us how should we understandwhat's going on in the UK today when we speak about anti Semitism both as you have reported whenit comes to specific incidents affecting Jews and Jewish institutions, but also in the sort of rhetoricalside of things what we have and Joe has identified and sometimes spoken of as a new anti Semitismwhen that anti Israel animus crosses to something attempting to demonize, to separate the Jewish state.These are elements that seem to be very much a part of what you're confronting in the UK? Help usunderstand how do you see them? Do we see them the same way? What would you like to hear? Wouldyou like to see happen not just from the American Jewish Committee but from other other Jewishcommunities and organizations here and elsewhere.Andy, thank you. In the UK we are very aware that we have problem with anti Semitism, we have aproblem with anti-Zionism. But I didn't think that the UK is unique in that, I have to say that we evenhear reports that from time to time in parts of this great country there are instances of anti-Semitismand instances of anti-Zionism. But there seems to be a picture abroad and I don't know how many ofyou here today are American and how many of you are from other countries. But there certainly seemsto be a picture in some parts of the American Jewish community that the Jews of Europe and manyoccasions, the Jews of Great Britain in particular are really in an awful state that we are treated likepariahs in our countries and really there is no future for us in our countries and the leadership of thecommunities in some of the European countries are digging their heads, sticking their heads into thesand and behaving like the leaders of the German Jewish community in the1930s.Now the first thing I want to say Andy is that before any of us say anything about anti Semitism or antiZionism we have to establish the facts. We have to be sure about what we are speaking. It's very easyto jump to a conclusion as a result of something that you hear or mishear or read or more likely misreadespecially given the speed with which the Internet can send a message around the world. And peoplereact in a way which is not only inappropriate but which is simply wrong. So the first thing is that wedo this in the UK. Before any incident is declared to be an anti-Semitic incident, it has to fulfill certaincriteria. And our community has an organization called the Community Security Trust, whose DirectorRichard Benson is with us here today who worked very, very closely with the Police. And frequentlyour definition of what is an anti Semitic incident is more restrictive than that which the police wouldapply to a particular happening. And we do that for a very important reason. It's so that we do not overreact. So that when we say there have been as there were last year, 594 anti Semitic incidents in theUK. 594, it's the highest total since figures started to be kept back in 1984. We know that every one ofthose incidents will stand up to closer scrutiny. So we never overstate the case. We try not to understate the case. But we do feel that it's perhaps better to err on the side of caution rather than to cry wolfwhen something is not, in fact, not anti Semitic. Point number one stop it, what's going on?Point number two, do not over react to something which you hear and read. Andy you said what do weexpect of other communities and other organizations around the world. I want to pay tribute to theAmerican Jewish Committee and exclude them from any comments I make about other JewishOrganizations whether they are in America, or in Israel or other parts of the world. If you hear aboutsomething that's happened in the UK, or is supposed to have happened in the UK, you actually contactwith the local community to check what the situation is before you respond if only others did. If onlyothers were as responsible as that. I will give you an incidence. I wonder how many of you received ane- mail telling you that the United Kingdom Government had dropped holocaust studies from thecurriculum in schools. Interesting how may of you received that e-mail, everybody. How many ofyou still believe it's true? It's this was an instance of how not to handle something. You know, we arevery, very lucky, I don't want anybody to accuse me in anyway of being complacent about the situationin the UK. But we have and have had a succession of governments in recent years who haveunderstood the concerns of the Jewish community and have understood our concerns for Israel. Onholocaust studies, the present British government could not have been more supportive. It is on thenational curriculum in our schools and friends it remains on the national curriculum in our schools.Government has funded schemes, whereby we are able to send two six formers that's 17 or 18-year-oldHigh School students from every school in the country on trips to auschwitz who come back betterprepared to speaks their colleagues about what they have seen.But one newspaper carried a report from an organization called the historical association which spokeabout one school where one teacher had had problems with teaching holocaust studies because ofsensitivities of Muslim students in that school. From that to developed this world wide e-mail and letterwriting campaign castigating the British government, castigating the British Jewish community forallowing this to happen and it took up hours and hours of the time of my organization, of otherorganizations, trying to deal with it and the more that we sent out proper and full explanations aboutwhat had actually happened or rather what hadn't happened, the more we seemed to get e-mails backsaying how could this happen. Now one of the ways that we combat anti-Semitism we should all dothat, is by developing good and close relations with political leaders, you know, Andy you said theBoard of Deputies came into being a long time ago. We were founded in 1760 and we were founded in1760 by the four synagogues then existing in London who wanted to get on good political relationswith the government of day who was the crown, there was the new king. A king whose name willresonate with all Americans in the room, King George IIIrd, said he lost us the colonies, he brought youinto being. But the board came into being to ensure that we have good relations with government andwe pride ourselves on having good relations with governments and we've got a particularly goodrelationship at the moment, with the Secretary of the State for Education. He didn't like getting a letterfrom the Simon Wiesenthal Center who hadn't bothered to consult us which really had a go at him forthe appalling act of dropping holocaust education from the curriculum in English schools.You can imagine the problems that that caused us the time that had to be taken. I we have here, wherethis is part of our British delegation, the Director of the Holocaust Educational Trust Karen Pollock,who deals with his political advisors everyday on the issues of Holocaust Education. We had to get onthe phone and explain a), We didn't understand what all the fuss was about, b) the letter had nothing todo with us, c) the letter came from an organization which frankly, at times, behaves incrediblyirresponsibly and d), Can you please get on with working together on holocaust education because wefeel that's actually a very good tool in combating anti-Semitism. So what we look for fromorganizations like yours is the responsibility that we get from an organization like yours. We'd like itfrom others, we'd like it from many Israelis and their organizations, who also waded in with theirheavy boots on this, not actually knowing what the truth was. And caused us far more problems thanwould ever have existed, if they'd only taken the trouble to discover what the facts actually were before they began the campaign.Henry, thank you. Benedikt I can turn to you, I want to ask you a question particularly out of yourexperience now in Germany. At a number of international gatherings certainly programs that haveevolved at the OSCE, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe or ODIHR part of theOSCE, the Organization for Democratic Institution Human Rights. Education is something that hasalways brought forward as a way to deal with the problem of anti-Semitism and frequently it'sunderstood that should be holocaust education. That essentially a way to address the resurgence of antiSemitism - anti Semitic manifestations, is to help educate the younger generation. In terms of whathappen during the holocaust. Probably there is no European country that has a longer record because ofits history, as does Germany in holocaust education, in addressing this subject. What I want to ask is,what you think it's effectiveness of this is and is it a different subject when one looks at the problem ofanti-Semitism coming from the right, coming from the neo Nazi, skinhead groups, as opposed tocoming from new sources of anti Semitism. In some cases incidence emerging from Arab and Muslimpopulations or as we spoken of already the strong the anti-Israel animist. How do you see in theGerman education system, the effectiveness if you will, of holocaust education when it comes toattitudes towards Jews today and perhaps as well toward the state of Israel.Thank you. Well of course holocaust education as I mentioned has been part of the national educationscheme for a very long time and it has worked for a very long time. It is part, so to speak, of ournational mentality and has made holocaust remembrance part of our national fabric, if you wish. It is anentire a part of our mentality to have the holocaust present. However there have been changes,demographic changes and changes in generation and this of course makes it necessary to adapt ourapproach and it seems to me that experience shows that holocaust education is only reaching part of itspurpose. If we talk about anti-Semitism, it seems to be empirically ever more clear, that it's not the same problem.If you want to raise awareness among young people on anti-Semitism, somehow you have really toconnect to their life and connecting to their lives means connecting to their problems, to theirbiographies and if we have for instance new immigration classes, the classes in Berlin where 50 percentof the students are of North African origin, Turkish origin, Berlin is mostly Turkish. Then we have toreally approach them in a specific way. The holocaust is not part of their national memory. It is with 50percent of the Germans in the class but its not with that group, so we try to develop a new approach forthese groups. We don't do it on our own because this is a field where many other countries havecollected their experiences and it is within the OSCE that we have this organization the HelsinkiOrganization where we have coordinated our approach. With to some avail we have new methodology,we have now new material. It has been tested and it's peculiar in the point that it connects to the dailylife of young people, trying to raise their sympathy, empathy and such, trying to be more effective. Ithink where at the beginning of the process in Germany and in other countries as well and would beinteresting to know how the US for instance what kind of use and what kind of experience the US will have with these material.And if I could just follow-up, do you feel that you have had a constant in terms of the effectiveness ofwhat's taught in the German schools or is there a kind of negative reaction that comes after a timewhen with the story of holocaust is brought forward?That is a question whether there is a kind of holocaust fatigue and the fatigue is a problem, if you don'tconnect with the people. That's the point, if you don't connect with the youth, if you continuetransmitting to them messages, which they don't really feel with, which are not which do not raise theirempathy, so teachers have to be trained to be sensitive on that and I suppose this is happening. We arecertainly not dropping, nobody is dropping nobody is changing the curriculum for that kind of fatiguebut we have to adapt it and we are in the midst of it in order to keep it alive.Thank you. Friends I turn now to Latin America. Communities that we have to come to know over theyears here secure, strong, comfortable in their Jewishness and relatively comfortable in their societies,but also affected by the sort of global events and a figure that has emerged now on the global stage isyour President there Hugo Chavez his efforts to carry attention and favor with some of the mostunsavory figures around the world, not only in anti-American platform but one that has embraced thePresident of Iran and his views. We know that there had been events, the community has had toconfront in in recent months. We know there was a strong feeling that Jewish community is here andelsewhere wanted to be with you earlier this year, help us understand what has this meant for theJewish community in Venezuela. This populist policy in anti-Israel and anti-America one and if youmight add not only for you in Venezuela but to what extent you feel elsewhere with Jewishcommunities in your neighboring countries, it's impact as well.Well it's I would say that somehow my community had a wake up call and it happened years ago in2004 with a raid on our school which was world wide known was a, I believe, for a very first time thatpolice entered by force to school which happened to be Jewish, searching for arms, weapons and ofcourse, were not found and after that we asked for explanation, we never got it. So, I believe, first of allwe have to understand where do we live? What kind of government we have? And its without anydoubt in my mind we are under a dictatorship. It's a under veil of Democracy because everybody saysthat you are democratically elected. But once you go start acting you act as a dictator. And I actuallyI believe today more than ever we have a dictatorship. We are lucky enough that everybody is clear onits own position. The government and us and the conclusion is that they don't like us and we don't likethem. So this is important to know but even though we have to understand it leaving in the same placewe have to get some sort of communication. You cannot leave a part of it. Even though they if theydon't want to talk to us. So what we have done so far, I will illustrate with an example. We had ourfour years anniversary just six weeks ago. And the last evening you heard Senator Kirchner speakingabout her stay in Caracas was our keynote speaker of the event and she happens to be the first lady ofArgentina and Argentina happens to be the best ally of Venezuela. So you imagine the First Lady ofArgentina coming to Venezuela not to visit the President of Venezuela but to talk to Jewish Audienceabout the anniversary of CAIV and about anti-Semitism, about values, Judaism about her respect forreserve for Democracy etcetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I believe that gave the real message to thePresident and the President gave us his message. The message was nobody from the government cameto that event telling us that listen we accept the challenge, we understand that you are strong becauseyou are surrounded by friends and even the wife of his best friend came to talk to us instead of talkingto him. But we don't get along. So you have your position, we have ours. So basically what we got is alittle bit of respect. And I think there are, couple of thing that I have learnt through these years in mypersonal opinion that we have to do. One thing is we have to make some study to understand howpeople view us because we have a feeling that to perception that people look at us in a certain way.We could be wrong. To use the findings of the study and work on the image of our community whichcould be in the States, could be in England, could be in Germany, could be wherever because we don'tpay attention to it. We think the things are granted to us and we have to make public whatever actionsthat we do in favor or being part of the country. I heard this morning talking about with the importanceof the social work. Social work is a very important part of Jewish Activity anywhere in the world. Theproblem is that we believe being anonymous is the right thing to do. And I learnt that this time beinganonymous is the wrong thing to do. We have to make it public that we are part of the country that wehelp and what we do being part of the country. And the third element that I I would like to close myremark at this point. is I believe that we have to pay very much attention to what's going on insidethe community as part of the process of what to do. And my personal feeling is sometimes and I goalong because I heard just during the lunch time that we don't stand tall enough. That we don't speakout enough strong and clear to the world that we are Jews. That we are proud of what we are, that weare very close to Israel and nobody is going to break the ties with our country. That whatever goesagainst Israel, against us and whatever goes against us, goes against Israel. So I believe this feeling andI have mentioned in one of the 1000 speeches of my President, he mentioned the following sentence.He said, "My Jews in Venezuela are okay." So then we understood we are (indiscernible) we are hisJews and we are doing okay. As long as we don't mess with the Israeli thing, then know it's this is adifferent story. We, I believe, that we managed to make our President understand that we Jews inVenezuela are exactly the same as Israelis. We are not different, the only difference is that we live indifferent places but we are one people. We stand shoulder to shoulder, so the problem here is if we asthe leaders in our communities manage well enough to convince the members of our community whichis the right way to go. And there its there is a discussion to going many places but what kind ofprofile you should have as a Jew when the kind of environment is not totally acceptable to what youwant. Maybe here in the states, is very easy or in England to stand up and say, speak to the press ormake a public declaration on on any subject that it bothers you. It doesn't work like this today inVenezuela and maybe in other countries, so this is my remark at this point.Thank you thank you for helping us understand what you are confronting and how it is, in ways,sounds to me, changing things that difficult as they are now, perhaps would prove better in the longterm for you. The subject of of anti-Israel animists becoming a new form of anti Semitism wasaddressed earlier at the previous session. Joe when introducing this had made reference to it. In onespecific area a number of us people here in the room, I looked at my colleague Ken Stern and MikeWhine were involved over the last few years in trying to press for an inclusive definition of antiSemitism that would attempt to describe and explain where that anti-Israel rhetoric crosses over andbecomes a form of anti-Semitism with demonizing of the state of Israel, with the application to Israelof racist, of Nazi like turns and rhetoric and so on. We were able to secure the adoption by theEuropean Union monitoring center, of what has been identified as a working definition of anti-Semitism. Some of you who were at a meeting this morning with Paul Goldenberg who runs the PoliceHate Crime Training program of ODIHR heard how that within ODIHR a part of OSCE for there atleast the operational material they use this working definition as well. But it's no accident that it'sreferred to as a working definition. I think probably one of the most difficult things on a political levelwould be get governments to acknowledge that this is a form of anti-Semitism, this anti-Israel animus.I think we understand that instinctively, reflexively and we spent a lot of time trying to explain andconvince others of this. A working definition is the first step. The Director of the UMC decided that itneeds to remain a working definition because if they saw the formal adoption there is the fear thatpeople would withdraw from it. Greg, you are now undertaking work perhaps, a volume will come outnow from the state Department that will look at the problems of anti Semitism worldwide. How haveyou understood this aspect of anti-Semitism and how will it both inform the report you present. Howeasy or how difficult has it been on an official level to convince other governments that this is nowsomething they need to recognize when they when you together speak about the problem of anti-Semitism.I spoke of this issue several months ago with a with an ambassador from an Arab state that I will notidentify. It was very good about it. He said that the line between the two anti Zionism and antiSemitism is very, very thin. It is our judgment, it's our belief that it is a vehicle by which to attackJews. If Israel could be viewed as the collective Jew then anti-Zionism creates a chance and ability, avehicle by which another form of anti-Semitism can be carried out. We have a web page, we haveplaced my, my office has a web page on the State department website. And we have placed thisdefinition on that website. Now for a number of reasons we have not formally said that we adopt this.But we use this as, for lack of a better term, a model. I know that the British all parliamentaryparliamentary investigation in anti-Semitism in UK suggested, if I am not wrong, that that definitionbe formally adopted. There are many cases, there are many instances where the ability to divide the twoissues provides those wishing to express anti-Semitism with a sort of a cover. To say well I am notcriticizing Jews as Israel. And yet we all know that in many cases as that Arab ambassador said to methe line is very thin and it presents that person with an opportunity to do harm. So it is and again it is many times another excuse.Henry can I turn to a subject that you are dealing within the UK, other European countries confrontingit as well which is to place the role of the Arab and the Muslim communities in Europe and the degreeto which this is the source of the problem that we are discussing today. It has seemed to be a sourcecertainly for incidents of anti-Semitism for tax on Jewish targets. We have seen that in France, we haveseen it in Belgium. These communities themselves may not be undifferentiated but sometimes whenone is speaking of the new problems today in Europe. One has the the impression that there is thesignificant clash of communities, a battle between Jews and Jews and Muslims reflected perhapsfrom the Middle East conflict, where those Battles are played out in European streets but then in,perhaps the UK is one example, we tend to think of numbers. We see the Jewish communities in thesecountries only a fraction of the Arab populations. People begin to feel that by political calculations youare inherently on the defensive and that again if this is a real clash, the future does look rather dim. Sohelp us to understand is that a fair assessment of their possibilities of finding some reasons to beoptimistic or at least to be more cautious about pessimism when we look at this today.I think every body in this room now, was present at the lunch session and heard Ayan Ali talk abouther experiences in Netherlands. And its quite clear that what she experienced was absolutely appallingand its equally clear that the potential for her experiences to be felt by other people perhaps in not suchprominent positions as she in other Europe is is enormous and it's a constant source of worry to us.There was a recent opinion poll in the UK which found that 46 percent of UK Muslims agreed thatBritish Jews are in league with the Freemasons to control the media and politics. It's astonishing, if theJews only had a fraction of the power that our enemies ascribe us, Boy! Would the world be a betterplace for us. You know, its it's astonishingly our enemies that we control everything from everyangle and if only if only we had a fraction of the influence that they think that we do. TheHands up. The number's game is one that we can never win. You know in the UK there are perhapsbetween 300 and 350,000 Jews perhaps perhaps more. There are somewhere between 1.8 and twomillion Muslims. You know, it doesn't take very long to realize that the potential influence politicallyof that number of Muslims is far greater than the actual potential influence in the Jewish Committee. InFrance the Jewish community is between five and 600000 strong. There are between five and sixmillion Muslims. Its and you find similar percentages in some other European countries and some ofour European cities in in the Netherlands, in Belgium you actually find the percentage of Muslims inthe population of their city is is approaching 50 percent, perhaps even more. So the numbers game isnot one that we can ever win. But where we can win is by promoting the values that we hold so dear.And by pointing out to people that Jewish values are in fact the values of the civilizations in which welive. You know, it it's true Judaeo-Christians values under pin Western civilization. And so I agree ina slightly different way with what our friend from Venezuela said we have to be proud as Jews, I'llleave the Israel question to one side. It goes without saying that. Almost I don't think there is anorganized Jewish Community in the world that does not support Israel and will not support Israel. Butwe have to stand proud as Jews. We have to know what being Jewish means ourselves and make surethat our children know what that means and make sure that the societies in which we live also knowwhat being Jewish means and see that actually being Jewish and Jewish values are not only, nodifferent from their core values but actually have an awful lot in common. And that we and they oughtto be standing together to deal with the problem that these large numbers of Muslim immigrants into somany countries in the world pose. You know, we come to this from the point of view of anti-Semitism.Anti-Semitism is not a Jewish problem. It's a problem that affects Jews but it's not a Jewish problem.It's a problem for the society in which it occurs. And if those societies can see that the potential ofincreased anti-Semitism strikes right at the very heart of the values in which they pride themselves asexisting. Then we have allies in the fight against anti-Semitism, and we need those allies. I actuallythink that we can find some allies within Muslim communities. I I can't speak with the sameknowledge of other countries in Europe or elsewhere in the world. But in the UK, there isn't a Muslimcommunity. There is a series of Muslim communities who come from different places and who oftenhave greater differences between themselves than they do even in reality with the host society in whichthey live. And in the UK, we are finding ways of working with Muslim groups who are prepared to buyin British society and by into British values because if we find them, if we identify them and it isn'teasy and its taking a long time, we are beginning to do it. Then, I think, there is room for being lesspessimistic picking up your way of looking at it, less pessimistic than the numbers themselves will lead us to be.Yeah. In a way I'd would like to address to repeat what I said on the anti-Semitism education before.If we adopt an approach which says as it was articulated at lunch time, something is fundamentallywrong with the Holy Book of the citizens of this city with the scholars, with the students of this schoolif we have such an approach and we go to the students in order to tell them that anti-Semitism is notaccepted in our society. This is a recipe for disaster, we will not to be heard and the whole message willbe lost. It is absolutely important that we build trust, that some kind of dialogue is instituted and only ifthis happens and it's difficult enough to reach people who are from complicated backgrounds, whocome with biographies, who came to Germany for instance after the first war in Lebanon, whichcarried their families to (indiscernible) with them and terrible souvenir to terrible reminders of the war.If we then want to talk to them about anti-Semitism, about Israel, it's really hard if we do not win theirhearts, if we do not work for instance with the Imams, we have to work with them. And so we have toreally calibrate our messages and be aware of how complicated things are.There is something in your earlier remarks Benedikt where you spoke about your educational effortsand to say that the holocaust education was prominent but not enough. Can you tell us, do you do youhave any a good idea of how the Turkish students, let us say, are responding, are they ignoring it arethey working out. You do you feel you are having an effect on the Turkish students in Germany?It is amazing enough and I must say I was amazed to learn that there is very little knowledge about that.In Berlin, we have 20,000 or 30,000 refugees from Lebanon. There we know the situation much betterand is, as as just described. With the Turkish, it's a large number, we have about 3.5 million Turkish,citizens of Turkish origin and immigrants. They do take part in the national education but it's difficultto raise them sort of with the same feeling and the same sentiment to get the same associations as wedo have with the holocaust. We are doing we are we are continuing to research about that, it's doneon the state's level. I don't yet have the the results on that.We do not have any problem with the Israeli diplomats back home, because we have I believe duringthese years discussed our differences and discussed the role that each one has to play and set out thelimits on each of us. And related to State of Israel, I I would like to say that we are very very proudto say that Israel is taking care of us. And I believe with within Israel mentality is that wherever thereis a Jew, is there a problem. So it doesn't exist a difference between the number of Jews or whereveryou are if we are going to be worried about you or not. In our case, we are working together, we areworking coordinated and we discuss our problems and we come up with solutions. Sometimes whichare public and many times are not public. What we have done I believe publicly and I I would like tothen to single out the this is the cooperation between Latin American Communities and we have achanged information on what's going on in our country and ask the communities the Jewishcommunity in Latin American countries to get in touch with their own governments and let them know,listen, this is what's going on in Venezuela. Doing that, we created a climate of awareness about what'sgoing on in Venezuela, and creating somehow a protection, a belt a safety belt, and let thegovernment know again that he is being under surveillance, so this kind of cooperation on this level hasworked out very well. Same thing has been done with Europe. We have got in touch with Germany,especially the government official and the community, Spain, France and of course the states very oftenactually Gregg and I we met, we met I believe a month after he was named as an officer for the StateDepartment. And these kind of things are which are creating some how a protection for ourcommunity, or for any other community in the world. So I believe, these kind of collaboration betweencommunities is very important. One more thing I would like to add, I believe that AGC has a veryimportant role to play. A very important role to play because we have to adopt what's the code that weare going to comply with being Jews. There are certain things that you have say, "Yes, yes, yes" or"No, no, no." And sometimes you know you know there is a policy of non-intervention orconsultation with the community. "What we shall do, we are going to do together with you", this isright but not entirely. There is some things, that should be a code as Jews and I insist on this point, butI believe in my feeling, you know, again in the lunch session is stronger today that as Jews we have tospeak out loud and clear that there is our strength and we have to adopt a common goal to all of uswhich we agree upon. Of course, adapting to the situation of each country, but this common goal inAmerican Jewish committee, which has today had this partnership with 24 countries, which is huge. Iwas impressed by the way that one I believe Switzerland, I believe one of them that I read I wasimpressed in Europe that they started the partnership. So I believe there is a way of communicating,getting this, this real partnership between all of us and making us understand that this is code, this iswhat we stand for, we want to fight for it we are going to let know every body what we are why we do it and how we do it?Thanks. Henry any comment on Israeli?Yeah there is. There maybe a few people in this room who are older than 59. And I don't know and Iwouldn't want to ask. But I default that for most of us here, we have all grown up in a world whereIsrael has been there. And we do not what it was like, and cannot appreciate what it was like to live ina world before the State of Israel came into being. So for us Israel is there and Israel is part of theanchor of our lives, whether it is as religious Jews, cultural Jews, as ethnic it doesn't make Israel isthere for us and plays a very important part in our lives. Does the state of Israel always do everythingthat it should or could for us? That's a very big question Andy you said we were together in Jerusalemonly a few months ago for a meeting of the global forum against anti Semitism and in principle that's agreat idea. It's a method of Jewish communities in Israel and throughout the world coming together toexchange information about anti-Semitism, to look at ways of combating anti-Semitism, to help eachother. What we face problems with anti-Semitism and it's such a good idea that the Israelis have nowtried it three times because they have tried it twice before. And on each occasion, for internal Israelipolitical reasons it petered out. Now one of the points that we made on this occasion, this is only thefirst one that I have been to there were some people there who were veterans of all three. And thepoint was made, that we really don't want to have to come back in two or three years time and startagain with a fourth global against anti Semitism. And we were assured that on this occasion thingswould be picked up. The points were made from communities around the world would listen to and theprogram would be set out and things would actually happen.I hope, I hope that will be the case but please don't ask me to put any money on it. I am not a bettingman any way. Because Israel is a very political country with a very strange political system, and whenyou have a change in the politically internal politics that Israeli government and ministries changehands then you never really know what is going to happen and what is going to be picked up and takenforward. And it maybe that although the existence of Israel is so vital to all of us and nothing I sayshould detract from that. It maybe that the communities in the rest of the world, have to work with eachother because it maybe that we can't rely on something like the global forum actually doing whateverybody would want it to do.Thank you - we are drawing close to the end of this session so I want to just turn one last time to Greggand then to Benedikt. Gregg perhaps, you could, in the few minutes remaining share with us somethingof your experience of trying to address the problem of anti Semitism as it's appeared in the Arab world.You've had the ability to travel as an official of the US government to raise this issue with the foreigngovernments, with political leaders as much as many of us here in Jewish organizations are engaged inthe problem it's not something that we have been fortunate enough to do. So tell us if you would,what's come of it? What do you think will come of it? What was your reaction when you had this opportunity?I traveled to in December I was in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt and of course I went Israel. Presently Ihave a member of my staff who should be concluding a visit to Yemen, Qatar, and the UAE. So we'vehad some exposure to the area, we have also visited with many of the Arab ambassadors here inWashington. I wish I could be more positive, I can say though that reception is polite. They understandwe have a problem, that we presented to them they try to and I say try to differentiate the problem ofsaying well we are not against Jews as we are against Israel and yet they do say and I had a veryinteresting conversation in Egypt with a journalist, not a government journalist - but just a journalist,who said that many Egyptians don't see the difference between the Jew anywhere else and an Israeli. Ithink in general, having visited the communities in Morocco and Tunisia that they are not livingnecessarily precariously but they are they are there, they don't have it too badly, as it were. Tunisiaworries me slightly more, because because of the country at south but they are okay. Egypt is is Ithink at a point where with all the other problems I have, but there are not that many Jews there, thereare only about 200 to 300. They they kind of make it day to day. As I said staff, one of my staff isin the gulf region and he had visited the community in Yemen as some of you may know recently wasinvolved in threat from a rebel community from some tribe in out there called the Al Houthi whothreaten their presence. We were, received - our requests were received very warmly by theGovernment of Yemen to help with them to get them out of harms way, to get them aid and to getthem to the capital and out of the battle zone where they are presently now fighting. My staff was ableto reside with them, talk with them. We have gotten through the government, them you know, we'vegot help from them. So it's a mixed bag in short. I think there are problems, I think, there are problemswith holocaust in Arab world. I think that there are, as I said, with that Egyptian journalists there areproblems were separating Jews from Israel in of itself and more more work needs to be done, mystaffer Damon was able to talk to the people at Al Jazeera and Al Arabia on how these issues are dealtwith on the press level, I myself have spoken to the people in Al Jazeera and if you kind of push them alittle harder, you go a little bit deeper, and if you are there long enough with them you get beyond thesurface, you see the problems that exist and I was in here for all of Hirsi Ali's talk today but I have metand talked with her. She expresses great concern about these satellite radios, coming out of the MiddleEast television and how they are into - she calls them the dish cities of Europe and you have Imamsgoing on these broadcast which say the most vile things, spreading the conspiracy theories - reallyagitating and perhaps part of why we sent Damon there. So it's a mixed bag, we are going to try to goout again. I did have, some of you may have read about an exchange back in January, there was areception, I was very honored. There was a reception for me on Capital Hill almost after an year I hadcome into the position but a number of Ambassadors came and one of them was the Saudi ambassador,Bahraini Ambassador came and the Moroccan, Tunisian but the Saudi Ambassador came and he wasinterviewed by the Jerusalem Post which in and of itself was an interesting thing but he was asked aquestion about the holocaust and he said everyone knows how the holocaust, everyone in the Arabworld knows about it. He said it is ridiculous to deny it. Now take that for what it is, take that for whatit's worth. He was the out going Ambassador, he didn't have to come and he didn't have to make theseremarks to an Israeli newspaper. Is it a new day? I don't know, but it's an interesting point and tosummarize it, it's we will see.Excuse me Andy before you ask the final round of questions I am going to have to excuse myself. Ihave to train I have to get so I just like to prematurely thank the panelists for their time, their effort,their presence, in sharing all their thoughts and ideas with us. It's very much appreciated and wish youBon Voyage home, thank you.I was going to ask only one last question to Benedikt and then conclude the session. This this sixmonths Germany holds the Presidency of the European Union, -And one of the things that had been reported coming into the Presidency was an interest in trying todevelop a sort of common European Union approach in dealing with the issue of hate crimes, dealingwith the question of holocaust denial. I think whenever EU Presidency emerges, they are alwaysprobably many more hopes and exceptions that can be reached within that six month period.But in this area, what what has, if anything been the progress made and you feel that under theGerman leadership there is at least a movement toward taking these issues more seriously finding wayswithin the growing EU membership to elevate the attention, to have a more uniform approach.Well two points on that, 30 seconds each. The first one, it has been a success for the European Unionthat a framework decision was shaped on racism including and holocaust denial. After a a couple ofyears of internal debate within the European Union, we succeeded finally in shaping a compromiselanguage on that, calling on all the European States to make holocaust denial a punishable crime.Second point, more political, I think it was a good thing to develop more and closer Trans-AtlanticCorporation on this issue. It has already been closed but it in the course of these days I've had thefeeling that sometimes on the American side in the population with you, there is a feeling that theEuropean's are not doing enough, that they are acquiescent to Syria, acquiescent to Iran, not really a awilling to take challenges and that they are too soft that they are talking too early with countries likeSyria and Iran. Well, I think in the mean time on these issues we have developed closer views. Wehave seen that from the American side visits have been made to Syria, even Iran has been approachedon a certain level. The diplomacy on the nuclear issue is developing and is backed by the United States.So I see a closer cooperation on all of these issues as one of the results of the European of the German Presidency of the EU.Thank you. With that I want to thank, as Joe did, I will on myself, Gregg, Henry, Benedikt, Fred thankto all of you. And it's it's only five after four we said we'd end at four. I am sorry for ending early, but thank you.