Always concentrate first on getting all the cards turned over in a row so you have a column to work with. The other thing is be prepared to move a lot of cards around just to get one more card in place on its suit.

I've now played 261 games and won 5 with a high score of 1132 That would be around 175 moves

1132 represents 168 moves which seems extremely high -- I've played zillions at 4-suit and my best is 1104 (196 moves) -- anything above 1050 is pretty good. Specific hints: (1) always move to put suits together BEFORE you move any other cards, especially in the first two rounds (2) when you've done that, always work to move the highest value card available (e.g. if you can put a 2 on a 3 or the 3 on the 4, put the 3 on the 4 first). Do this even if the sets of cards are not linked (i.e. put a 9 on a 10 before you put a 2 on a 3) (3) Use the Undo command (CTRL-Z) to check out ALL the possibilities if you have a choice of two stacks or cards to put on a single stack or card (lessens the score but helps win the game) (4) try to keep at least one stack 'clean', i.e. with only a single card or run of cards, so that it's easier to get back to a turnover or (better) an empty column (5) Especially towards the end, keep an eye on the discontinuities (6) Towards the end, be prepared to break rule 1 if it means you can clear a column or get to turn a card over (7) try to make sure that when a suit goes out, it leaves a column blank -- you can't Undo back past the point at which a suit is completed, and it can bring the game to a halt.

With regard to how often it is possible to win 4-suit Spider: I can win about 22% of the time without using Undo except to correct mis-clicks. This % has held over 100s of games. Note, I don't bother with move count, I just try to win. Here are some strategic hints. 1) Early in the game you must get into the face-down piles so that you can a) get as many cards available as possible and b) get first one and then two spaces. The way to do this is to leave not just one but as many stacks as possible single-suit. This often means breaking up a single-suit run in order to pile as many loose cards as possible on one stack while making other stacks clean. Especially, just before dealing, make as many stacks clean as possible. 2) After a deal the highest priority is to get at least two spaces. One space is not enough - get one, and then use that one to get another. 3) When you have one or two spaces, practice conservation of spaces. Before giving up a space study the whole game carefully to make sure there is no useful move that conserves the number of spaces you have. Once you have a space, try to leave it single-suit before you deal so you'll have the best chance of recovering it after the deal. 4) If you have three spaces it is OK to put a king in one in order to get at the face-down cards underneath it. If you have four do whatever you like, you should have the game won. 5) Late in the game is the time to focus on bringing whole suits together. You can only do this when you have lots of cards face up and at least two spaces. Try to conserve spaces while doing this too. 6) Of course you have to master the "tactics" of the game, meaning all the different ways there are to move the cards around to get cards from the same suit together. This comes with practice.

I started playing spider two days ago and I'm hooked. I think about it when I'm driving even! I tried the medium difficulty today and was getting so frustrated- I checked the net to see if it's even possible, and I guess it is. But Park Chamberlain, your KrAzY! How could you win that many times!

Astrid Bjornson, Trust me, it can be done. I'm not the only one, check the web site at http://www.semicolon.com/Solitaire/Articles/Spider .htmlfor another take on the strategy. You really have to play enough to master all the ways to manipulate the cards, though. My wife doesn't play much, and when she does I find that I can glance at her position and see plays that she just doesn't see.

I have played spider for years, even on Unix. After several games, I decided to win each game. I succeed for at least 100 games. Ie, I won about 100 in a row. I got bored with winning that way, and found it took thousands of moves and many hours. It also took lots and lots of saves and restores. Remember the undo counts as a move.

My latest goal is to win with the least amount of moves. I made the difficult in 137 moves on 1/27/2005, medium 100 on 8/14/2004, and 88 moves on 4/18/2005. I wish the games were numbered, then I'd try to do all of them. With Freecell, I completed all but one. Can anyone top my low scores?

nb, Kings kill a column. Don't put them at the bottom unless it helps getting rid of it.

I have been playing for a number of years. It is relaxing and not very draining.

Currently I am at 21% win with four card. My best score is 1100 157 wins vrs 567 losses. I do much better if I am patient and use undo to explore all options. There is a definte trade-off between obtaining a high score and maximizing the number of wins by using a lot of un-do. A low score can be statisfiey if you have managed to unknott a convulated situation. There is a third way to test your self in this game. The speed at which you recognize that the probability of winning is so low that you hit a new game. I think this an interesting skill to develop. If you do not play every game to the bitter end then this also mitigates againest your win ratio.

I would be interested in tracking the go no decission making. This starts by flushing deals before a card is moved. I never play without starting with two connections of the same suit. I also rarely start if more then one king is showing. When you get a new deal without moving a card it does not compute as a loss.

Bob Rissolo, Your statistics are very impressive. Do you mind sharing your strategies with the rest of us? At the url given by Park Chamberlain, people describe their success strategies. They also would be impressed with your success since the best that most other people that play this game can win is 1 in 4 times.

Roger is right. This is a rare strategy, but sometimes make the difference between winning and losing. Another rare strategy (for non-undo users) appears when there are only a dozen or fewer cards face down, and you are about to turn over a do-or-die face down card. In this situation you can figure out exactly which cards are still face down by studying the layout, then make changes in the layout to give yourself the maximum chance of being able to play the card when you turn it over. Roger's 51% is the first long-term percentage I have seen for how often you can win 4-suit spider by using Undo whenever you want to. I'd be surprised if anyone can do better, since it seems to me that about half of the games are obviously unwinnable after the first or second redeal. But this is just an opinion, not based on numbers.

I've won this game about 66 times. I don't ever use the undo option. I always look for a game with 3 running cards such as a Jack, queen, King of hearts. It's very challenging, but I can win. It's hard to go back to 2 suits or even Free Cell. Regular Solitaire is even harder.

My current record is 260 and 259, 50%. My advice is if you just want to win games regardless of score use the undo function a lot and explore every possibility before you do something you can't reverse. Here is a picture of my record, if it uploads correctly:

This game is almost to the point of easy. Although it took a few hundred games before I figured out the strategy. I have won the 4 suite most difficult game 438 times. I win about 1 in every 4 or 5 games now, but started out hardly ever winning. I have won 3 in a row before. High score 1109. Obviously this means I am playing this game way to much. It's addictive.

I have been playing 4-suit MS Spider on My Windows XP Home computer for about a year. I have won 28 times, but only have a 3% average. It seems to me that the shuffles (deals) are not random, for instance in the 10 stacks there will be 4 of the same number plus 4 of another. This just happens a lot more often than one would expect. Any comments?