That headline is sadly 100% accurate.. Samsung are awful at support. Samsung shiat is ok if it's a Nexus device but anything else that they actually have to support themselves you should expect one entire upgrade and a bunch of un-lubed fists up your ass the rest of the products life.

Is MS vetting the apps submitted? I don't care if it had 25 apps if they were all quality.. I love Android but browsing the market is like shopping at a flea market. over 9000 bullshiat apps promising being "THE #1 _____ APP ON THE MARKET" with the developer and his botnet giving it fake comments and ratings..

moothemagiccow:The surface would've sold like hotcakes six years ago. The hell is wrong with microsoft? I keep up with this shiat and it looks like another touchscreen to me.

Yep, same with the Zune. Technologically better than the iPod and Microsoft sit there going "Why arent people buying it?" because everyone owned an iPod and it was just before the transition from MP3 players to smartphones.

The Surface could be a shiat hot little slate that eats everything else on the market and it won't sell because everyones got an iPad or a Nexus (or A. N. Other Android device); 4 - 5 years ago? Hella different story.

The thing is doomed. It's a proven fact users don't want a portable device that is easy to interface with other gear like digital cameras, memory sticks, hard drives, and micro SD cards. They want everything in a proprietary format with functionality intentionally limited by the corporation that sold them the device.

Big_Fat_Liar:The thing is doomed. It's a proven fact users don't want a portable device that is easy to interface with other gear like digital cameras, memory sticks, hard drives, and micro SD cards. They want everything in a proprietary format with functionality intentionally limited by the corporation that sold them the device.

Actually people want to use whatever their friends are using. Since almost everyone is using an Android or Apple device, this is doomed to fail. Typical Microsoft, always three years too late with their hardware.

Vaneshi:moothemagiccow: The surface would've sold like hotcakes six years ago. The hell is wrong with microsoft? I keep up with this shiat and it looks like another touchscreen to me.

Yep, same with the Zune. Technologically better than the iPod and Microsoft sit there going "Why arent people buying it?" because everyone owned an iPod and it was just before the transition from MP3 players to smartphones.

The Surface could be a shiat hot little slate that eats everything else on the market and it won't sell because everyones got an iPad or a Nexus (or A. N. Other Android device); 4 - 5 years ago? Hella different story.

/Shiat like this is why I dislike Ballmer as the CEO of MSFT.

Even though I like Windows 8, Microsofts problem is the same problem forced meme's have.. No one likes the feeling they are being forced to like something (even if it is funny and or good) and generally turn a snide face to it. It's like McDonalds.. Every-farking-time they change their menu they have to force it on people in a "PLEASE LIKE US AGAIN, LOOK WE'RE DIFFERENT NOW!!! BUT THE SAME!!" sort of way.

That's the way I feel whenever Microsoft release something new.. It has a "PLEASE LIKE US AGAIN?? WE"LL DO BETTER THIS TIME!! PINKY SWEAR??!?@#.. WE"RE COOL RIGHT??" feel to it.

The fundamental problem with Surface: it's yet another platform, two in fact. It can't run Windows Phone apps, and it can't run Windows apps. The iPad runs iPhone apps. The iPod runs iPhone apps. Yeah, there are some iPad-specific apps out there, but the iPad wouldn't have been nearly as successful if it didn't have a huge library of apps already available for it when it was launched.

There's a version of Surface that will run Windows apps, but that's not really better - it just muddies the waters. If people are told "the Surface X runs Windows applications" then when their normal Surface doesn't have Windows applications available, they'll be pissed.

So, yeah. The Surface is a non-starter. If it ran Windows Phone apps, it might have had a chance.

I hate Itunes.Really, Synching to an alternate PC requires you to BLOW AWAY all the songs currently on the ipod?You don't say. And why do I need to search for 3rd party apps to just upload one song or a ringtone? Because Itunes what? FU Apple.

I hate Itunes.Really, Synching to an alternate PC requires you to BLOW AWAY all the songs currently on the ipod?You don't say. And why do I need to search for 3rd party apps to just upload one song or a ringtone? Because Itunes what? FU Apple.

You can't automatically sync stuff from a second computer, but there is an option that lets you manually add and remove files. Didn't even know about it until my friend offered to share his sizable music collection, and it still is a rather backwards solution but it works.

tolallorti:BHShaman: My kids next (whatever) will be a MS or Droid product.

I hate Itunes.Really, Synching to an alternate PC requires you to BLOW AWAY all the songs currently on the ipod?You don't say. And why do I need to search for 3rd party apps to just upload one song or a ringtone? Because Itunes what? FU Apple.

You can't automatically sync stuff from a second computer, but there is an option that lets you manually add and remove files. Didn't even know about it until my friend offered to share his sizable music collection, and it still is a rather backwards solution but it works.

I never got the "sync" thing. Can't you just mount the ipod as a disk like every other music player?

The problem with the surface is that it's just not very good. I was eagerly awaiting it's release for months, and then they released the specs. I told myself "wow, that's a pretty low resolution, but if it's in the 200-300 dollar range, then it could still be interesting." Then they released their pricing, and I never took a second look at the thing.

They don't really compete with similar android or apple offerings in any meaningful way. The gimmicky keyboard/kickstand is kind of neat, if only their weren't existing options that were cheaper and superior (see asus transformer dock with expanded storage and auxiliary battery). It seems like they really didn't anticipate what their competition would be doing, and I expect they will pay dearly for it.

moothemagiccow:tolallorti: BHShaman: My kids next (whatever) will be a MS or Droid product.

I hate Itunes.Really, Synching to an alternate PC requires you to BLOW AWAY all the songs currently on the ipod?You don't say. And why do I need to search for 3rd party apps to just upload one song or a ringtone? Because Itunes what? FU Apple.

You can't automatically sync stuff from a second computer, but there is an option that lets you manually add and remove files. Didn't even know about it until my friend offered to share his sizable music collection, and it still is a rather backwards solution but it works.

I never got the "sync" thing. Can't you just mount the ipod as a disk like every other music player?

Just click "manually manage musioc and videos" on the info tab of your device and you're set. It will want to do a final sync, but after that youre good to go.

mtb9000:They don't really compete with similar android or apple offerings in any meaningful way. The gimmicky keyboard/kickstand is kind of neat, if only their weren't existing options that were cheaper and superior (see asus transformer dock with expanded storage and auxiliary battery). It seems like they really didn't anticipate what their competition would be doing, and I expect they will pay dearly for it.

I kind of liked the keyboard. But 99% of the time I'm using my tablet on a couch. Microsoft is the only company I know that would design a tablet that basically forces you to use it at a desk to be productive.

Walt_Jizzney:Just click "manually manage musioc and videos" on the info tab of your device and you're set. It will want to do a final sync, but after that youre good to go.

Unless your 'synched PC' already shiat the bed and you can't do a final synch. Point being that as always Apple does a ton of stuff to rope you into their business/technical processes.

Sure, Sure. I have a backed up PC with all the songs and can restructure them into the damned Itunes library, or do an initial BLANK synch to the new PC (wiping out my daughters library, and then rebuild the stupid library again. I imagine that might work ok if you want to resynch with Itunes cloud if you bought all your music there, but I didn't. Most are ripped from CDs my daughter got as gifts. Being 10years old she still like reading lyrics and having the picture/jewel case.

With the new phones coming out with standard drag/drop between devices and phones, no more Apple. Just all totally unnecessary and I've asked relatives to please stop with the Apple products.

I bet the rumored XBox-branded Surface will do alright. If they integrate it well with the next XBox, keep it to about $200 and position it as more of a mobile gaming device rather than an all-in-one tablet, it might do well. Make the next controller Bluetooth and position some XBLA games as both XBox and Surface compatible right at launch would be a bonus.

Big_Fat_Liar:The thing is doomed. It's a proven fact users don't want a portable device that is easy to interface with other gear like digital cameras, memory sticks, hard drives, and micro SD cards. They want everything in a proprietary format with functionality intentionally limited by the corporation that sold them the device.

My experience with the RT Tablet has been, it does none of the above well.I found it disappointing, since it had all the external storage options.

I don't doubt that MS will eventually get this right. It's just not there yet.

styckx:Is MS vetting the apps submitted? I don't care if it had 25 apps if they were all quality.. I love Android but browsing the market is like shopping at a flea market. over 9000 bullshiat apps promising being "THE #1 _____ APP ON THE MARKET" with the developer and his botnet giving it fake comments and ratings..

lolque? I thought hating on Apple's oversight and rigorous control of their "walled garden" app store was currently in vogue on Fark. You do not belong; an app experience designed by the Somalian government is desirable. Android is teh freedom.

moothemagiccow:I never got the "sync" thing. Can't you just mount the ipod as a disk like every other music player?

It comes down to performance. At some point you're going to have to build a database of all the metadata in your MP3s so you can search it, build playlists, etc. Question is, do you want to do that on your computer, or on the device?

Disposable Rob:I bet the rumored XBox-branded Surface will do alright. If they integrate it well with the next XBox, keep it to about $200 and position it as more of a mobile gaming device rather than an all-in-one tablet, it might do well. Make the next controller Bluetooth and position some XBLA games as both XBox and Surface compatible right at launch would be a bonus.

I have an XBOX and I've yet to figure out what is so grand about "XBOX live integration with Windows Phone and Surface". I use the XBOX to play games. The only thing it stores is game saves and my XBOX LIVE profile, which is crap like my avatar and my friends list. So I would "integrate" my friends list on my Surface so I can say "yeah, uh, I'm at work, I'll hit you up on Black Ops II later"? Because if that's all it is that's kinda meh.

theurge14:I have an XBOX and I've yet to figure out what is so grand about "XBOX live integration with Windows Phone and Surface". I use the XBOX to play games. The only thing it stores is game saves and my XBOX LIVE profile, which is crap like my avatar and my friends list. So I would "integrate" my friends list on my Surface so I can say "yeah, uh, I'm at work, I'll hit you up on Black Ops II later"? Because if that's all it is that's kinda meh.

That was my thoughts with the XBox Live apps for iPhone iPad.

Then they rebranded it SmartGlass and added functionality like typing and remote control. The problem is it's an awful interface that has serious performance issues. If I use a mouse-like gesture there is a significant delay in when I move my finger and when the screen responds. That is a huge problem for a metro style interface where it constantly passed by the tile you wanted.

The only other app with similar functionality is the Apple Remote app, and it runs smooth as butter. Controlling an Apple TV is really responsive and intuitive.

I WANT to use Microsofts new products because they have a lot of ambition and could be really functional. But their half-baked nature annoys me to no end.

Oakenshield:styckx: Is MS vetting the apps submitted? I don't care if it had 25 apps if they were all quality.. I love Android but browsing the market is like shopping at a flea market. over 9000 bullshiat apps promising being "THE #1 _____ APP ON THE MARKET" with the developer and his botnet giving it fake comments and ratings..

lolque? I thought hating on Apple's oversight and rigorous control of their "walled garden" app store was currently in vogue on Fark. You do not belong; an app experience designed by the Somalian government is desirable. Android is teh freedom.

The flea market metaphor is a good one but I'm used to the approach as it's the same as getting freeware for Windows off the internet. Is the iOS app store that much better or is it just preferable to pay for software?

Lord Dimwit:The fundamental problem with Surface: it's yet another platform, two in fact. It can't run Windows Phone apps, and it can't run Windows apps. The iPad runs iPhone apps. The iPod runs iPhone apps. Yeah, there are some iPad-specific apps out there, but the iPad wouldn't have been nearly as successful if it didn't have a huge library of apps already available for it when it was launched.

There's a version of Surface that will run Windows apps, but that's not really better - it just muddies the waters. If people are told "the Surface X runs Windows applications" then when their normal Surface doesn't have Windows applications available, they'll be pissed.

So, yeah. The Surface is a non-starter. If it ran Windows Phone apps, it might have had a chance.

You're slightly confused, the Surface Pro is actually Windows 8 Professional version. The difference between it and the RT is that the RT is just not beefy enough to run real apps on (It's specs are similar to an iPad) and about a thousand dollars or two.

I'll give you the point about windows 8 phone apps on the RT. Personally I think the entire reason it exists is just to compete with the ipad in the price space, because frankly it's a POS (and so is the iPad) when compared to the Surface Pro - which is basically a full on freaking laptop with a tablet form factor.

theurge14:Disposable Rob: I bet the rumored XBox-branded Surface will do alright. If they integrate it well with the next XBox, keep it to about $200 and position it as more of a mobile gaming device rather than an all-in-one tablet, it might do well. Make the next controller Bluetooth and position some XBLA games as both XBox and Surface compatible right at launch would be a bonus.

I have an XBOX and I've yet to figure out what is so grand about "XBOX live integration with Windows Phone and Surface". I use the XBOX to play games. The only thing it stores is game saves and my XBOX LIVE profile, which is crap like my avatar and my friends list. So I would "integrate" my friends list on my Surface so I can say "yeah, uh, I'm at work, I'll hit you up on Black Ops II later"? Because if that's all it is that's kinda meh.

You carry your gamertag across all devices, so your game scores and achievements as well... so I guess you have xbox achievements to look forward to for Angry Birds in the future?

moothemagiccow:I never got the "sync" thing. Can't you just mount the ipod as a disk like every other music player?

Dragging and dropping is fine if you only have a few songs to worry about moving. It kind of falls apart when you have thousands of tracks that you want to manage. For example, my wife has an iPod and she just wanted to swap out some of her normal music with Christmas music for the holidays. In iTunes it was a simple matter of unchecking a few dozen albums to remove them, filtering the song list for Christmas/Holiday music, and then checking the boxes next to the songs she wanted to add.

Something like that takes way longer if you have to dig around in the directory structure of your music player and your computer, and it is really confusing for non-technical users. iTunes is pretty much the reason the iPod succeeded the way it did, because once you get music players that are dealing with tens or hundreds of gigs worth of media manually managing content becomes a hot mess pretty quickly.

TwistedFark:I'll give you the point about windows 8 phone apps on the RT. Personally I think the entire reason it exists is just to compete with the ipad in the price space, because frankly it's a POS (and so is the iPad) when compared to the Surface Pro - which is basically a full on freaking laptop with a tablet form factor.

And you basically pay full on price that you would for a more powerful laptop.

TwistedFark:Lord Dimwit: The fundamental problem with Surface: it's yet another platform, two in fact. It can't run Windows Phone apps, and it can't run Windows apps. The iPad runs iPhone apps. The iPod runs iPhone apps. Yeah, there are some iPad-specific apps out there, but the iPad wouldn't have been nearly as successful if it didn't have a huge library of apps already available for it when it was launched.

There's a version of Surface that will run Windows apps, but that's not really better - it just muddies the waters. If people are told "the Surface X runs Windows applications" then when their normal Surface doesn't have Windows applications available, they'll be pissed.

So, yeah. The Surface is a non-starter. If it ran Windows Phone apps, it might have had a chance.

You're slightly confused, the Surface Pro is actually Windows 8 Professional version. The difference between it and the RT is that the RT is just not beefy enough to run real apps on (It's specs are similar to an iPad) and about a thousand dollars or two.

I'll give you the point about windows 8 phone apps on the RT. Personally I think the entire reason it exists is just to compete with the ipad in the price space, because frankly it's a POS (and so is the iPad) when compared to the Surface Pro - which is basically a full on freaking laptop with a tablet form factor.

Right, that's my point. There are three different Microsoft application ecosystems: Windows 8, Surface, and Windows Phone. Surface suffers from the problem that it can't run Windows Phone apps, meaning it doesn't have a lot of native apps. Surface Pro can run Windows 8 apps, but it confuses people - "I bought a Surface, I was told it could run Windows apps! It can't! I want my money back!" There's also the problem that the Surface Pro might be able to run Windows 8 applications, but with the tablet form factor a lot of them will be next to useless (since they were written expecting a mouse and keyboard), so there will end up being, in the end, four different Microsoft app ecosystems: Windows 8 mouse-n-keyboard, Windows 8 touch, Surface RT, and Windows Phone. That's at least two, maybe three, too many.

Oakenshield:styckx: Is MS vetting the apps submitted? I don't care if it had 25 apps if they were all quality.. I love Android but browsing the market is like shopping at a flea market. over 9000 bullshiat apps promising being "THE #1 _____ APP ON THE MARKET" with the developer and his botnet giving it fake comments and ratings..

lolque? I thought hating on Apple's oversight and rigorous control of their "walled garden" app store was currently in vogue on Fark. You do not belong; an app experience designed by the Somalian government is desirable. Android is teh freedom.

I have had three Android devices over 3 years and for the most part like the platform but I'm not going to put on the horse blinders and pretend the app market is laughable at best.

I bet if you polled Android users about how they find apps 70% of them would say "I saw it recommended on a website"..

*I* NEVER casually browse the Android Market (Er. Play Store).. It's shiat.. Any time I need something specific I just Google "Best [insert specifics] app for Android" and usually the first result or two is a reputable website reviewing the top 5 apps in that general area I'm looking for.

styckx:That headline is sadly 100% accurate.. Samsung are awful at support. Samsung shiat is ok if it's a Nexus device but anything else that they actually have to support themselves you should expect one entire upgrade and a bunch of un-lubed fists up your ass the rest of the products life.

I have samsung software that frequently requests to update itself, and fails at it.

impaler:styckx: That headline is sadly 100% accurate.. Samsung are awful at support. Samsung shiat is ok if it's a Nexus device but anything else that they actually have to support themselves you should expect one entire upgrade and a bunch of un-lubed fists up your ass the rest of the products life.

I have samsung software that frequently requests to update itself, and fails at it.

Samsung software is shat.

Let me guess.. Samsung Kies? Worst-Software-Ever... I installed it once and it told me 3 times in a row an update was available, but the third time I realized it was downloading the same exact version over and over and over again.. *facepalm*..

styckx:Let me guess.. Samsung Kies? Worst-Software-Ever... I installed it once and it told me 3 times in a row an update was available, but the third time I realized it was downloading the same exact version over and over and over again.. *facepalm*..

Nope. Although I have used "Kies mini" that isn't the one I'm talking about. (Kies mini is not to be confused with other "kies" labeled software doesn't work with my phone. Found that out after a frustrating afternoon.)

I never got the "sync" thing. Can't you just mount the ipod as a disk like every other music player?

Standard USB drive recognition only gives you the image folder.All the other OS folders are hidden w/o 3rd party software.

No I mean "why can't Apple let you mount the ipod as a disk?" It's a transparent scheme to keep you in their music store.

Along with this, the whole "authorize up to 10 computers on this Apple ID account", Fairplay DRM and a few other things, it was one of the concessions made with the recording companies that convinced them to allow music to be sold on the iTMS back in the mid-2000s. Granted it seems a bit anachronistic now (they've removed DRM in 2009) but that's one of the things it took to get the ball rolling.

styckx:That headline is sadly 100% accurate.. Samsung are awful at support. Samsung shiat is ok if it's a Nexus device but anything else that they actually have to support themselves you should expect one entire upgrade and a bunch of un-lubed fists up your ass the rest of the products life.

They are forced to do this, because Android doesn't work right. It an Android phone lacked a removable battery, it would be bicked within a week.

impaler:styckx: Let me guess.. Samsung Kies? Worst-Software-Ever... I installed it once and it told me 3 times in a row an update was available, but the third time I realized it was downloading the same exact version over and over and over again.. *facepalm*..

Nope. Although I have used "Kies mini" that isn't the one I'm talking about. (Kies mini is not to be confused with other "kies" labeled software doesn't work with my phone. Found that out after a frustrating afternoon.)

TwistedFark:theurge14: Disposable Rob: I bet the rumored XBox-branded Surface will do alright. If they integrate it well with the next XBox, keep it to about $200 and position it as more of a mobile gaming device rather than an all-in-one tablet, it might do well. Make the next controller Bluetooth and position some XBLA games as both XBox and Surface compatible right at launch would be a bonus.

I have an XBOX and I've yet to figure out what is so grand about "XBOX live integration with Windows Phone and Surface". I use the XBOX to play games. The only thing it stores is game saves and my XBOX LIVE profile, which is crap like my avatar and my friends list. So I would "integrate" my friends list on my Surface so I can say "yeah, uh, I'm at work, I'll hit you up on Black Ops II later"? Because if that's all it is that's kinda meh.

You carry your gamertag across all devices, so your game scores and achievements as well... so I guess you have xbox achievements to look forward to for Angry Birds in the future?

I suppose my CoD K/D ratio could be automatically updated live on my phone's lockscreen so I can wave my ePeen in public. But then again I have a hard enough time being taken seriously as an adult...

theurge14:Disposable Rob: I bet the rumored XBox-branded Surface will do alright. If they integrate it well with the next XBox, keep it to about $200 and position it as more of a mobile gaming device rather than an all-in-one tablet, it might do well. Make the next controller Bluetooth and position some XBLA games as both XBox and Surface compatible right at launch would be a bonus.

I have an XBOX and I've yet to figure out what is so grand about "XBOX live integration with Windows Phone and Surface". I use the XBOX to play games. The only thing it stores is game saves and my XBOX LIVE profile, which is crap like my avatar and my friends list. So I would "integrate" my friends list on my Surface so I can say "yeah, uh, I'm at work, I'll hit you up on Black Ops II later"? Because if that's all it is that's kinda meh.

Right now Smartglass is just kind of tacked on to a seven year old system and infrastructure (and it feels really tacked-on), but I'm thinking the next X-Box would have better integration with what MS has been promising for years. Instead of "hit you up later", it's more like the same games could play on both the Surface and the Xbox. FPS's would be unlikely, but turn based games would be pretty easy to implement. Depending on how the Wii U turns out, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a version of the next Xbox that includes a tablet.