Mark David Chapman killed John Lennon. This is one conspiricy theory that I am not getting involved in Lennon was and is a personal hero of mine.
Worse yet he died on my 5th birthday, December 8 1980. So I say poo to this conspiracy, for that 5 year old whos birthday was ruined by a radio
anouncement about his hero dying.

So this is Christmas / And what have you done / Another year over / And a new one just begun
And so this is Christmas / I hope you have fun / The near and the dear one / The old and the young

A very Merry Christmas And a happy New Year / Let's hope it's a good one / Without any fear

And so this is Christmas / For weak and for strong / For rich and the poor ones / The world is so wrong
And so happy Christmas / For black and for white / For yellow and red ones / Let's stop all the fight

A very Merry Christmas And a happy New Year / Let's hope it's a good one / Without any fear

I read that and clearly the FBI was mestaken about John Lennons motives. He was a peace protester, he believed in non violent means to end the war in
vietnam. He was an artest not a danger to the government. Mark David Chapman killed Lennon because he felt alienated by the singer, he had stoped by
Lennons home prior to Dec 8 to talk to Lennon about his songs even remarking about how he felt that some of his songs spoke to him. When Lennon
shrugged him off like many celebrities do Chapman grew angry and decided to kill Lennon. Even if the Manchurian Candidate theory is correct Mark David
Chapman would have to have a week mind to conform to it. He was a sick individual but I don't think that the CIA wanted lennon dead.

I wish I could share your opinion that the CIA didn't want Lennon dead. Unfortunately however they had volumes of documents on him. Followed him
everywhere and tapped his phone.

Lennon held alot of political power. He could have overthrown the system if he wanted to and this is why I think the CIA had him killed. Because they
knew they would have had a revolution on their hands if they didn't take him out.

I find the whole Chapman thing as a disgruntled fan very hard to believe. Very hard to believe because it doesn't make sense.

Have you read that link? All the politcal motivations to kill lennon are there. He gave up the peace thing in the 70's but in 1980 he was going to be
politically active again.

Actually lennon didn't shrug him off. He signed an album for Chapman. And he didn't stop by his apartment as if he was a personal guest. This was on
the grounds or at the park across from the Dakota.

Read the link for pete sake it's really good.

And two remember that Hinkley's attempt on reagan wasn't long after. Both were found with the Catcher in the Rye which could have been the key to
controlling them like in the Mancurian Candidate.

Of course we are talking about a murder that happened 25 years ago. Psychologists can now argue unless someone was of a severly weak mind they could
not be brainwashed like this. Sure they would eventualy break down and agree to do whatever you said but then once they are away from the pressure the
choice again would be theirs.

Im not going to argue JFK cause we all know that one was screwy, and as far as Hinkley and Regan, I don't know because I don't have enough
information on that one. All I know is because of that one a big piece of our civil liberties started to erode with the Brady bill.

I don't understand the connection between catcher in the rye and the manchurian candidate, I own a copy of catcher in the rye, are you telling me
that I am a programed assasin for the government? is it the book thats making people kill?

Free will is a powerfull piece of the human condition. Even if Chapman was set up to kill Lennon the truth is that Chapman was the one that pulled the
trigger, Chapman did it in broad daylight, he was the one that bears the responsibility for the choice he made. because he had a choice.

Course that brings up annother good point, if Chapman was brainwashed by the government, wouldent he had been able to recall some of the brainwashing
sessions if perhaps he was put under regressive hipno therapy? The mind works like a hard drive, sure you can send things to the recycle bin and then
empty that recycle bin but somewhere in the files is something that will tell you the contents of what you deleted.

Originally posted by jinsanity
And two remember that Hinkley's attempt on reagan wasn't long after. Both were found with the Catcher in the Rye which could have been the key to
controlling them like in the Mancurian Candidate.

wonder what future generations will be caught with...imgaine.
"they both had BlueRay copies of Lord of the Rings..." - reading, what is that?

Seriously, not sure how a book would be used to control them, although, I admit that I am not a mind control expert. (by far, if I was, i could get my
mother-in-law to act different.

)
Think about it...was this a book written by the CIA? Are you saying that there was a catch phrase somewhere in the book that they used to associate
with when he read it that he would flip?
Then why give him a novel, whos to guarantee he would finish it?

Peace

Dalen

how would someone know if they were mind controlled by the CIA anyway? Arent we all mindwashed by the social pressures our milieu places upon us?
So in a sense, maybe he was mind-controlled, but not how most would think.
Every day when I go to the store I see mindcontrol at work.
The negative, pessimistic attitude, of the "I cant do" Hungarians (I say that in a general term, applying to those actually here in Hungary...and
again just a generalization) pretty much mindwashed. Are other countries different? No, not really...just packaged differently...the crap has a cherry
on top.

If this makes sense, great, Im sure it will be open to misinterpretation as clear communication isnt always achieved immediately.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
A good hypnotist / mind controller could make you scratch around the mall acting like a chicken while wearing your mother's lingerie & singing a
whaling song. Tell that to the free-will police.

Not sure if that is true...is there scientific fact to back this up?
Seems more like a stage show, where people go along maybe because of a weak mind, but not due to loss of "consciousness". This probably should be
explored further.

Again, social mind-control...
peopel kill each other in wars that would otherwise be friends if their milieu didnt tell them to kill each other. Talk about mind-control...and this
is seen in all aspects of waking life from social pressures in the job place to school.
We dont call it mind control, but perhaps that is successful mindcontrol when you let the "user" think they are in control, when in actuality the
cannot even control the thoughts in their own head. (acceptance is key, cant leave you guys hanging...

Yea I don't buy it, someone yes could be hipnotised to do things that they wouldent normaly do but, I have seen adult material where they hipnotise a
girl in order to take advatage of her 9 times out of 10 the second they touch her she wakes up and bango "I hope they don't do that anymore" truth
be known you can only be brainwashed or mind controlled if you allow it to happen. If you are going to be able to kill someone anyway it would be easy
to brainwash you into that mindset.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
A good hypnotist / mind controller could make you scratch around the mall acting like a chicken while wearing your mother's lingerie & singing a
whaling song. Tell that to the free-will police.

Not sure if that is true...is there scientific fact to back this up?

I've seen it done irl. The audience included a few friends who were completely controlled.

Originally posted by dAlen
Again, social mind-control...
peopel kill each other in wars that would otherwise be friends if their milieu didnt tell them to kill each other.

This is more an example of social groupshift rather than direct mind-control imo.

Brainwashed subjects are often implanted with switches to activate a 'programme' which could range from an assassination to mowing the lawn. Some
folks argue that Catcher in the Rye contains such a switch, which would only affect those who've been pre-programmed, not the casual reader. The
author was in Naval Intelligence i believe.

I saw Tony Lee at my school. It's insane what they can do. They had to stop two people from almost making it to 3rd base and home plate. They were
ready to rip eachothers clothes off and actually starting too. Lee had to stop the whole thing for a bit and the girl woke up with the guy ontop of
her. bet thaat must have felt weird.

Anything is possible. I never used to think that Lennon was assassinated by the CIA either but it's just recently i've come to this realization. He
was starting to get buddy buddy with alot of Black Panthers around the time of his death.

He was going to start a revolution and we all here know it. Thats why he the CIA murdered him. He was a threat to the coming Reagen administration.

Hinkley's father was an oil man and good friend of Bush Sr. Hinkley was scheduled to have dinner with the Bush's that night.

I've just joined to post on this, because I'm currently going through a bit of a John Lennon 'phase'.

I've been in the same state as Whatukno for the last however many years. I was eight years old that year and my father had died in the March. It
was consequently the worst Christmas I've ever experienced, and the news didn't help.

Over the years since, any mention of John Lennon made me think of my father's death, so I chose to not remember.

However, a few months ago I got brave and started to delve.

The case for a CIA Mind-control killing is so heavily outweighed against the 'lone nutter' theory that it defies belief that it cannot be seen by
most people. Of course I understand why. We're taught from the age of four not to believe in 'conspiracies' and such. I feel the stigma against
myself ffs! lol

I would like to draw your attention to the work of Derren Brown, in particular a show he made called The Heist. In this programme he enrolls general
members of the public and over a period of a few weeks puts them on a 'business training' course. At the end of the programme at least 3 of these
regular everyday citizens each hold up a security truck at gunpoint. Noe of them knew why they were doing it, but they all did exactly the same
thing.

I'm not denying that Chapmn was a loon, merely suggesting that this would make him more susceptible to mind control.

If it can be done in a few weeks to create great television, then surely it can be done by an organisation with unlimited funds at their disposal and
a genuine motive?

Originally posted by whatukno
Mark David Chapman killed John Lennon. This is one conspiricy theory that I am not getting involved in Lennon was and is a personal hero of mine.
Worse yet he died on my 5th birthday, December 8 1980. So I say poo to this conspiracy, for that 5 year old whos birthday was ruined by a radio
anouncement about his hero dying.

So this is Christmas / And what have you done / Another year over / And a new one just begun
And so this is Christmas / I hope you have fun / The near and the dear one / The old and the young

A very Merry Christmas And a happy New Year / Let's hope it's a good one / Without any fear

And so this is Christmas / For weak and for strong / For rich and the poor ones / The world is so wrong
And so happy Christmas / For black and for white / For yellow and red ones / Let's stop all the fight

A very Merry Christmas And a happy New Year / Let's hope it's a good one / Without any fear

Originally posted by whatukno
Mark David Chapman killed John Lennon. This is one conspiricy theory that I am not getting involved in Lennon was and is a personal hero of mine.
Worse yet he died on my 5th birthday, December 8 1980. So I say poo to this conspiracy, for that 5 year old whos birthday was ruined by a radio
anouncement about his hero dying.

So this is Christmas / And what have you done / Another year over / And a new one just begun
And so this is Christmas / I hope you have fun / The near and the dear one / The old and the young

A very Merry Christmas And a happy New Year / Let's hope it's a good one / Without any fear

And so this is Christmas / For weak and for strong / For rich and the poor ones / The world is so wrong
And so happy Christmas / For black and for white / For yellow and red ones / Let's stop all the fight

A very Merry Christmas And a happy New Year / Let's hope it's a good one / Without any fear

True today as when it was writen (thanks Homer Simpson)

Hey Whatukno i feel a connection with you. Lennon was also a hero of mine and oddly enough died on my 5th Birthday too.

Being from Liverpool Lennon is a legend in these here parts and regardless of if he was killed by a mad man or some alphabet agency his loss is still
one of the biggest losses ever to affect this planet.

I don't understand why the CIA would want Lennon dead. I read that link, so what, he started a protest. He's a singer, what can he really do to
become a threat to the government? We are just as much of a "threat" as he is by speaking as we are against the government.

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