POSTGAME NOTES: The Giants’ worst month in 15 years is a disaster in more ways than one, Beltran might want to give Bochy his number back, an unorthodox task for Meulens, etc.

A few weeks ago in Miami, Cody Ross dropped an important word in an otherwise regular old postgame comment.

He said, “We can’t be selfish.” Or words to that effect. But “selfish” was definitely part of it.

No reporter mentioned that word in a question. It wasn’t even suggested. Ross volunteered it. In the haste to make deadline, I didn’t really think it through deeply enough at the time to ask a follow-up question, or even circle back the next day. But it marinated, and I wondered.

Why would Ross say the players can’t be selfish? Are they? Have they lost that “win for the guy next to me” mentality, which drove them all the way to the parade down Market St. last year?

Well, as this wretched August winds down, it’s clear there’s been more going on behind clubhouse doors than meets the eye. There haven’t been a lot of players-only meetings, though.

Check out the game story for that, and for the state of the room. It’s probably what you’d expect. It might be worse.

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The last few paragraphs of the game story didn’t make the Web. So I’ve copied them below.

Giants management spent the offseason worried about how the pitching staff would respond after last year’s postseason workload. Instead, the hangover clearly had a greater affect on position players like Aubrey Huff and Cody Ross.

“You wonder … what toll it took on these guys mentally or physically,” Sabean said. “We all know August is a rugged month. But nobody could have seen this coming. Nobody could have seen 25 different opportunities to DL somebody, and how chopped up this has been.”

The Giants will get some speed and youth from Fresno on Friday, which can’t hurt as they’ll try to sweep the Diamondbacks and continue to defend their title.

As for their edge? That might have gotten misplaced at the World Series parade.

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It’s not entirely Carlos Beltran’s fault that the team is 11-21 since The Trade. Injuries happen. He’s out there now at less than 100 percent, trying to make a contribution.

But after making three outs to end innings, stranding two runners each time, I think it would be a noble gesture if Beltran draped his No.15 over Bruce Bochy’s office chair. Switch to 51, maybe. Change the mojo. Anything.

Judging from the growing boos, it wouldn’t be a bad PR move, either.

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Aaron Rowand is an .077 hitter with an 0-2 count. He’s hitting .152 with two strikes. When I looked up that last stat, I was actually surprised his average was that good.

Rowand is Exhibit A why the Giants have not fired hitting coach Hensley Meulens. Rowand has an unorthodox approach and he’s too stubborn to overhaul it. Ross isn’t the most orthodox hitter, either. In fact, almost none of the Giants’ underperforming veterans have cookie-cutter swings.

There is only one thing tougher for a hitting coach than dealing with a struggling veteran. And that’s dealing with a struggling veteran who has been successful in the past with an unorthodox approach.

You can bet that management recognizes the cards Meulens has been dealt.

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It’s a day game tomorrow and I’m covering it, so pardon the short postgame blog. The game story and notebook should leave you with plenty of discussion fodder, though.

In case you miss it in the game story … if the Giants lose Wednesday, they’ll finish August with a 10-19 record. They haven’t lost 19 games in a month in Brian Sabean’s 15 seasons as the club’s general manager.

Their last 19-loss month was in September, 1996, when they went 6-19 to finish with a 68-94 record.

Yes, it’s been that bad here lately. Instead of “drive home safely” on the scoreboard after the final out, I half expected to see “so long, suckers” glowing up there.

Andrew Baggarly

Andrew Baggarly has documented the most eventful era in San Francisco Giants baseball history, having covered the team since 2004 for th​ree major media outlets including the San Jose Mercury News and the Oakland Tribune​. This is his 20th season as a baseball writer.
​Baggarly is the author of the bestselling book, A Band of Misfits: Tales of the 2010 San Francisco Giants, and the newly published Giant Splash: Bondsian Blasts, World Series Parades and Other Thrilling Moments By the Bay. Baggarly’s other notable life accomplishments include running as the Bratwurst in the Milwaukee Sausage Race and becoming a three-time Jeopardy! champion.

Management recognizes the cards Meulens has been dealt? Ok, then who is responsible for giving him such a terrible hand Baggs? Sabean the teflon Don that’s who. And Bochy walking Colvin tonight was one of the stupidest Managerial moves of all time but no mention of that. Blame the injuries all ya,want but the season went down hill when Sabean tried to improve the team and castoff key players from roles they were in and replace them with pure grizzled veteran trash.

Three letters: D. F. A.
Would love to see rowand and tejada hanging with bill hall. Let’s see pill and peguero. Think they’d score less than 2 runs with younger more energetic offense? I doubt it. Pitching stays the same, so taking risks on younger offense could only help. If not, we’re doomed to second place if we stick with vets who have 300+ ABs hitting under .250

I like the Giants, they’re my favorite team. But I wont continue to watch or attend games if guys like Rowand, Tejada, Zito, etc… get playing time. They have no value to the team. Please just release them so spots will open up for young players.

I don’t understand why the giants keep useless players on their roster. Even the recently released Clayton Tanner holds more value than Aaron Rowand. Everyone always says the money is old news and to get over it. That’s all fine and good. Get over it as an excuse to keep the guy on the team. The money is spent no matter what. I would rather carry Darren Ford and his useless bat on the bench as a reserve outfielder. He brings speed and a high level of defense…things Rowand cannot match. I am sure Ford could keep pace with that batting line Rowand is throwing up.

This team has been ruined by horrible veterans. If it was only Huff, we could carry him. The fact is that Huff earned that extension. That doesn’t guarantee him a starting job though. With Ross, Rowand, Burrell, Cabrera, Tejada and Zito to carry along with Huff, the load is just too large. Albert Pujols couldn’t do it alone, why should we expect Pablo or Beltran to do it?

I just can’t wait until we don’t have to watch this horrible offense anymore. Sadly, Timmy and Cain are saying the exact same thing.

The Giants losing is like falling into the center of the earth. They will keep falling and the worst is yet to come once they land. I can’t believe I’m watching such a pathetic display of offense. The one thing Carlos Beltran proved tonight, excuse me, clinched tonight is he is best in the majors at Rally Killing!! He and the rest of the line up is making every pitcher they face look like they won a Cy Young award. I bet I can get at least 6 score less innings and 8 strike outs if I were to go out there. Oh yeah I’ve never thrown off a mound in my life.

It’s been amusing, and depressing, watching the rationalizations progress.

First it was hey, the Giants are in first place and will surely win the West. Once they’re in the playoffs, anything can happen.

Then it was hey, the Giants are still in first place and the D-Backs will fade.

Then it was hey, the Giants play all sub-.500 teams for the rest of the year except for the D-Backs. Ignoring the fact, of course, that the Giants have been a sub-.500 team themselves for the last three months (45-46 since May 21).

Now it is hey, the Giants still control their own destiny. Six games out with six games left against the D-Backs.

It’s a fine line to understand when your lucky and not to mistake it for being good. Some would say lucky is good but the chances of being that lucky two years in a row are one in a million.

Management got really lucky last year.

The lineup that started the year went away and the replacements found a kind of magic most never do (a few other teams imploding during the regular season and the post season helped out as well).

Management thinks it made everything happen last year, when in reality it was a “Band of MiSFits” that turned into the magical dream team. (Baggs you can send the $$ to… :smile:)

There wasn’t a single person that was strong all year last year and they were never really in the race until the very end. Everything went right up until the very last game of the season and that synergistic magic continued throughout the playoffs and into the World Series.

In the eight years I have been listening to the Giants on the radio there never existed that type of energy. The word “Torture” was so apt it almost made one cry, that was the symbol for the years of tragedy leading up to last days of last year…

It was almost surreal to win the whole thing while flying so far under the ESPN/MLBtv radar. Even the game before they won the WS the pundits were talking about how Texas could still come back and win it all, as if SF was SURE to lose everything in the 11th hour like they had for so many years before.

We are right on track for a 2009 season repeat of 88/74, finishing second or at worst third in the division without any shot at the wildcard spot… If we play the way we did in August in September the Rockies could pull past us in the division standings.

It WAS magic in 2010 and now Bochy and Sabean think they are magicians, when really, they are nothing more than the sorcerer’s apprentice bungling up the works with one arm and patting themselves on the back with the other (or so it appears)…

Could we pull it out with an upswing at the end, similar to the Rockies in 2009? Sure we could, but I hope we don’t win them all but the most important ones at the very end…

The optimist in me thinks we could swing up and play well and roll into the post season as Arizona falls under their own weight.

There is just enough of the season left for another fairy tale ending.

The realist in me can’t get over the major suck that is currently on display. But I didn’t think we had a chance last year and we went all the way.

Stranger things have happened and this is baseball where strange things happen all the time! 😉

@21 Dinero: The article specifically mentions Joe Maddon and Ron Roenicke. Both of whom manage teams with better records than the Giants.

And I’d be interested to hear how players “for decades” have been able to carry around video of every at bat in their career versus tomorrow’s starting pitcher in a 22 ounce package they can watch anywhere, any time.

It is definitely UGLY this past month! I cannot recall ANY Giants team I have watched for 53 years being this offensively challenged! The injuries compounded by veterans like Huff and Ross failing this year then the added pressure the remaining guys are putting on themselves … has led to this horrible month of August 2011.

But tomorrow is a new game … and thankfully the last day of August. Hopefully they can win one and the Rockies can avoid being swept in Arizona. Then we’ll see what happens this weekend! Right now the Dbacks are playing WAY over their heads and our Giants are playing way BELOW their abilities… hopefully September will bring that dynamic back in balance a bit!

As fast as all this went south.. it can turn around and they have just enough time to pull this out with a strong run in September. Will it happen? Maybe not … but that is why we watch the games … and also why I NEVER have left a game until the final out! It ain’t over til it;s OVER!!

Missing buster……. Trading for Reyes (which the mets wermt willing to do) would of included 2 more premium or already major league young talent than hunter pence. For pence we would if givin up wheeler and brown and others. Maybe Neal before he got traded and another. I doubt the mets woulda wanted pill. They woulda asked for madbum or someone equal to his value. That’s asking for about 6 premium or 4 and 2 good-great prospects. Wheeler, brown, madbum, belt, Neal, pill, surkamp, Crawford maybe. Top 2 are included no matter what and either belt or madbum pick 1 plus 3 more prospects.

Lots of injuries, lots of tinkering and still a little too much of the “proven veteran” thing especially with Rowand and Miggy. Why do we always pay up for the battle tested Veterans after the career years like on Huff or every Giants SS including Vizquel? Huff for Yr. 1 @ $10m, ok, bonus for the ’10 performance at $3m but really 2 yrs? Burrell @ $1m? Genius. Cody for $6m? Over-paid. Miggy @ $6m hitting <.230 and not willing to bunt? Horrible. Bright spots of this year are Pitching, Pablo, Nate, Keppinger, Crawford and Vogelsong. Beltran Injured? Disappointing but only Bourn or Pence would have been better but at what price? That said, it ain't over yet and some of our old goats may make this interesting. Beats rooting for the Dodgers!

#7/Anti-Rowand: Tejada and Rowand would *NEVER* hang with DFA’ed Bill Hall. That’s because Hall accepted that invitation to AAA Fresno and is playing his heart out trying to make it back to the bigs (I’d guess). Rowand and Tejada can’t see through the thick haze of their gigantic egos to realize that they’re huge problems on the team.

i still would like to thank the Dodgers for starting our DL…with the senseless infliction of brutality & scarring aimed @ Bryan Stow..from that day on, Opening Day no less. fans&players have had to stomach losses that could never have been predicted. So too the nearing end of a season that noone dares to predict. They say “anything can happen”…anything HAS happened & Bryan Stow is living proof as we hear he is still fighting for his LIFE, his VICTORY, LISTEN UP GIANTS..Fight for Yours!..P.S..Dodgers, its not our Karma, its yours & we will prove AGAIN in the

i still would like to thank the Dodgers for starting our DL…with the senseless infliction of brutality & scarring aimed @ Bryan Stow..from that day on, Opening Day no less. fans&players have had to stomach losses that could never have been predicted. So too the nearing end of a season that noone dares to predict. They say “anything can happen”…anything HAS happened & Bryan Stow is living proof as we hear he is still fighting for his LIFE, his VICTORY. LISTEN UP GIANTS..Fight for Yours!..P.S..Dodgers, its not our Karma, its yours & we will prove that AGAIN in the post-season..WHERE WILL YOU BE?

clearly rowand wouldnt hang out with bill hall anywhere besides the dfa list. the moment the giants dfa rowand, he will run back to chicago and beg for a job with the white sox. HE DOESNT BELONG HERE NOR DOES HE WANT TO BE.

If Rowand, Zito, and Huff won’t accept a buyout of their Contracts and receive the freedom to seek their own deals with any team of their choosing, then I plan to make their lives equally as miserable as they perform for the Giants.

It’s produce and live up to the size of your Contract or pay the price of listening to boos and harsh criticism.

Nobody should be immune to having to be ACCOUNTABLE.
That goes for the GM and Manager, too.

You can’t blame Tito’s boy, Beltran, blame Bork/Sabean for not looking longer term and coming up with anything more than their Band-Aid solutions. The Braves and Phillies both improved long term at the deadline. We went fishing at the scrap heap again. There’s a reason most teams don’t go fishing there.

No whining here
This is a whine free zone
I would love someone to step up and show some leadership with this group
No reason that Tejada could not run some free clinics on how to bunt
Rowand could run a few on how to look worse than Donald’s hair
Huff could show us how to smoke your way to good health
Ross could do a video on how to hop after hitting a homerun every other month.
Whiteside could really help the little leaguers with his do not up turn your glove down to stop the balls in the dirt.
Stewart would be how a 186 hitter is still better than a 223 hitter when you can throw out a runner

If you really want to upgrade, and give the fans the best chance possible, you don’t do it on the cheap. You sack up like Philly did and get Pence…..

Now, I don’ t know if Pence fixes our problems, but the energy and vibe as well as performance hasn’t hurt the Phils one bit.

Before the trades, we go in and show Philly why we were WD champagne. After the trades…..does anybody at home think the Giants wouldn’t’t get swept.

I can understand not wanting to give up the entire farm for Pence, which is what he cost. Brown is projecting to be Pence in two years. But next time, don’t bring us the polished old BMW 328i and try to sell me it’s a new S class Mercedes….

It is time to start overhauling this team for next year. Posey will be back as well as Huff and first, Kepp/Sanchez at 2nd and Pablo at third. Nate, Belt ,and Torres will return in the OF. The Giants need to add youth and speed and sticks beyond these folks. Burris needs to be given an opportunity as the reserve infielder. If Gary Brown isnt ready; they need to trade or signo someone with speed in the outfield. Surkamp, Vogey, Timmy, Cain, and MadBum is a nice starting staff, and the relievers are the best in baseball. Get what you can for Sanchy and Zeets…

Here is my pessimistic prediction. The Giants will run off with the next 5 games. Yes that means they sweep Arizona! They will get the deficit down to 2 games because the run. By the end of the second week in September, they will have tied Arizona. They battle back and forth until the last weekend series of the year with the Dbacks, when they enter 2 games up because of 2 miracle comeback wins against the Dodgers. They then get swept by the Dbacks and finish the season on a 6 game losing streak!

My “optimistic” prediction is that the Dbacks will put all of us out of our misery this weekend! I am suffering from sudden onset insanity by watching this team. It is like a bad car wreck! I don’t want to keep looking, but I have to! This is my team! The team I have loved for the last 35 years! The team that made all my dreams come true! From the fan perspective anyway.

I really don’t want the season to be over after this weekend! I want this team to fight! Want this team to become a TEAM again. It is not surprising to me that this selfish thing is coming out. Is has been very obvious to many of us! Please don’t let this end this way! Please show the fight you had last year and don’t give up!

Giants have to clean house this off-season … DFA Rowand, lose the vets like Tejada and Cabrera, and say goodbye to Ross too. They desperately need a SS … is Crawford that guy? Defensively YES, offensively not yet … What they need is a lead-off type, regardless of position. They can’t count on Torres to do that. I’m not saying get rid of him, because he still has value defensively and with his speed, but they need a legit leadoff threat. Another bat with some thunder would be nice too …

It’s pretty obvious now that the Giants played way above their capabilities last year. Everything that had to go right did. And this year, we are back to 2009…Bochy and Sabean addicted to playing old gamers who have experience and are professional hitters.

The only way they play a rookie is if he puts up ROY type numbers. That defines Sandoval and Posey. Otherwise, a veteran can put up Huff type numbers and keep playing everyday and bat in the 4/5 spot.

We gave up a really promising rookie in Wheeler. I hope we learned this lesson again since we keep repeating this mistake. Don’t trade your farm system for rentals.

This year is over. AZ will win the division. We need to clean house and get rid of Rowand, Zito, Ross, Cabrera, Burrell, Tejada and any other old vet. Our bullpen needs some tweaking. We need to look at what ATL did with their three headed bullpen monster. Adding Hembree to setup Wilson might be a start.

Try to trade Jonathan Sanchez and dump Zito. Sign Vogelsong to a 2-3 year contract and call up a rookie to take the 5th spot like Surkamp.

So many people are reminding me why I loved Candlestick and the Giants so much back when the A’s were winning with the Bash Brothers and dot races.

I got called negative for pointing out that house was on fire a month ago and criticizing what Bochy and Sabean were doing. It did not change how much I still believed things COULD turn around if they did the right things (or more likely things I had not thought of). Yet, 90% of comments would say “Relax, we’re 4 games up,” or “Bochy and Sabean won a World Series, they know what their doing.”

Now, the house is nearly burnt down, and so many running for cover. A bunch of bloated fans (just like at those old A’s games – yes, not all) sitting on their butts and waiting for the good things to happen. How many of you would have froze your rear off to scream “Uuuu” or “Ribe” back when it meant something? back when it was cheering for a light hitting SS to GET a hit?

Almost the entire offense now is like Jose Uribe, and the fans need to be cheering for good things to happen, not waiting for the good things they expect or feel they are entitled to watch.

There are enough games for everything to change with the AZ series.

Now, am I suddenly a Bochy fan? Hell no. I hope people realize now that Mr. Out Of Ideas was lucky last season, probably from drowning enough kittens in children’s tears for Cthulhu to not just let him win, but look like a “genius” in the process. He even tried that lame “2 trips to the mound” crap again, even though it would have been applied correctly now, and not really been a big deal at all. Perhaps, just perhaps, people will realize how much folly there is in relying TOTALLY on aged vets unless a youngster forces your hand.

I wanted Bochy gone after winning a world series just as much as I do now, for all the same reasons, but that does not mean this can’t turn around in spite of him.

How the heck are the Giant starters going to stay positive when they have no offense or defense behind them. The shortstop position is a joke. And it seems like Giants hitters think a walk is a jaunt through the nearest park. I’m a die hard Giants fan and have been for close to 35 years and I’ll be there rooting for them till the very end, but this team tired and lifeless. That some players sneak out the back door after a loss tells me a lot. At this point I’ll state the obvious. The Giants HAVE to sweep the D’Backs to have any chance of catching them.

However I think the FO is concerned with starting his major league contract clock. They didn’t want to start Belt this year’s but the hitting and injuries forced them into it. Brown is just like Belt, played D1 baseball in power conferences and tore up their first year in pro ball.

Now the FO wants to see what he can do in the AFL, if he can come close to what Belt did and have a great spring, there is no reason he should not be the starting CF next year…….too bad Sabean is “Old School” in his words to recognize this team’s roster needs to get younger. Can Nuekom please put the Kabosh on any FA signings of anyone over the age of 28.

Another thing is Brown is going to be 23 on September 28th this year. That is starting to get to be long in tooth for a major league prospect. I guess we will just have to wait for him to be about 28 becuase we know how Sabean and Bochy like their old guys.

If you weren’t critical of the Beltran deal when it was made…then it’s a little hypocritical to critcize it now!

Hypothetical reversal…If Beltran went to Philly, he’d probably be raking in the middle of that lineup? If Pence had come here he’d probably be struggling surrounded by a bunch of .230 hitters & being called on to be the savior?

I’m right with you. A handful of us on here were complaining that the house was on fire for a very long time. We were called haters, band wagon fans and that all we wanted to see was our team to fail. I was strongly opposed to signing Beltran and one guy on here called me stupid. Well the house is torched and the season is on the brink of disaster. Showtime have packed up their camera’s and sailed out of town. Don’t want to be the guy that told you so. But I told you so.

Nothing is going to change tomorrow except that Belt will sit for Burrell. Huff / Tejada / Cabrera / Whiteside / Rowand / Ross / Torres will all play. Crawford / Belt and the youngsters will see minimum playing time … mostly when we are 12 games out…or day games. Cause Bochy and Sabean want to see which veteran has the fire so they can bring back next year. The band wagon people will find something else to do and talk about. True fans will sit here and watch this team erode from within and management won’t do anything about it.

I am tired of listening to people like Fits and Brooks and others say ignorant things like, “Giants fans have no business being upset in 2011 because they won it all in 2010” That is moronic. We should be more frustrated because we are wasting once in a lifetime pitching and we are clearly being lead by great scouts and great pitching/draft gurus in Tidrow and Barr but our Manager and GM are killing this team slowly with one stubborn, vet loving move at a time.

The d-bads were in a 5 gme losing streak. The traded kelly johnson away to shake things up. They’ve won 7 strait.

Yet the worse the giants play the more determined sabean is to stick with the same players. Doing nothing isn’t better then doing something.

The park isn’t selling out and its half empty by the 7th. Around the time bengie was traded they’d set record low attendances for the park. So its no longer a given that fans will pack the house for a losing team.

How ’bout this? Give up on the extra BP, for that matter, take no BP at all. All the extra work and BP has done no good so just tell the guys to show up at the yard, put on their unis, and go play the game. Can’t hurt and might get the guys back to the basics. Paraphrasing the great Yogi Berra, “you can’t think and hit”. If you think we’ve overanalyzed the Giants’ hitters problem, just think what they have been going through. Quit thinking, it might help.

Firing the Hitting Coach is like firing the Custodian because the employees throw food on the floor. The problem as has been stated earlier is Sabean’s antiquated idea of how to build an offense. His continued reliance on players who are not performing after months and months of failure is criminal. Then he gets the writers to let him try to wiggle out of responsibility for his incompetence. He says (and with a straight face) that no-one could have predicted this teams troubles at the plate. Well, some of us did. In the spring I for one said they needed a good defensive hard hitting short stop (Sabean didn’t get one) I said they needed a better back up catcher for Posey so he could be rested (sabean didn’t get one) I said that schierholtz should be the starter in right field (they put Huff there and we all saw what happened there) and Belt should have been kept on the big team at first base but they kept sending him up and down and expected him to hit well in that situation then put him in left field to keep Huff on the field (hows that worked out Sabean?) They sent down Crawford for Cabrera (hows that worked out Sabean?) The only player whom I thought would repeat his season was Torres, I was wrong about that.

Yes fire the hitting coach, that’s the ticket! He is the reason this team is so lousy at the plate. Anyone who thinks that is the problem doesn’t know s _ _ t about base ball!

I’m sick of Sabean, his excuses and his Blarney! The Irish Mafia running the Giants is failing! Time to purge!

The Giants getting back into the race is a real longshot at this point. There is barely a pulse left generally, and the offense is certified DOA. It looks bad, it feels bad.

Now, turn back the clock 12 months. Nothing was more improbable than the September Lincecum had when you consider how BAD his August was.

He was allowing a batting average against of over .300. He had a WHIP of nearly 2.00 and he was walking over 4.5 batters per 9 innings. And, his last start in August was arguably his worst.

Then came September, and what a September it was – for Lincecum and the Giants.

I am totally bummed by the way August has gone. I know it sounds foolish to even hint at a turnaround. But, why not? Heck spring 2012 will be here soon enough. Let’s see if there is some September magic for the Giants this year.

I have stayed positive throughout this year, harping on many of you who have been so negative. But now it’s my turn. What’s the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It’s clear by now that Rowan, Huff, Ross are automatic outs. Bring up young blood. How much worse can they hit? Does it matter if they hit 100 points less these vets that will not be around in years to come?

How do you get rid of Boche? Not realistic. But in looking at your time, you have to play small ball. They have lost 18 games by scores of 2-1 or 1-0. If you have this pitching staff, play for a run or two per game. Bunt, sacrafice, hit and run. Small ball. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen Cabrera swing away and make a harmless out when a bunt would have moved the runner over. Yes, Monday morning quarterbacking, but like I said, same playback equals insanity. It won’t give you different results.

Gary Brown is like 22. Come on, he’s not an out of high school player. Two years at Fullerton. One year at SJ. Surkamp survived. Give Brown a chance, now.

I put the blame squarely on Sabean as opposed to Meulens or Bochy. I cannot fathom why the GM has not shifted gears in this post-steroid era and in a pitcher’s park – by heading to youth, speed, OBP, and good defense in his choices. He’s holding on to his anti-Moneyball stance as stubbornly as Rowand sticks to his see-ball-hit-ball to left side (or strike out on a slider) approach.

Off-speed, off-speed, off-speed. The response to this is to take pitches, get walks, and steal bags. Too bad we are the illest equipped team in the MLB to do this thanks to Sabean. It also doesn’t help that our slow-footed defense allows hits that other teams would turn into outs.

Tomorrow we need to bench all players over 30 (except maybe Keppinger and Beltran) and see what the younger, faster, more discilplined (hopefully) guys can bring to the table. We may not make the playoffs but at least we’ll be a bit more ready for the overhaul that this offense needs this coming off-season. If Sabean can’t change his ways it’s time for a new GM.

Grumpy Rowand — The Defecator’s upset from straining at his stools
Creepy Derosa — so very very slow
Mopey Tejada — sullen about being asked to bunt
UnHoppy Ross — no HR hops now
Trashful Huff — formerly Jokey now Brokey
Queasy Zito — he just makes me sick
Schlock Cabrera — all you find on the schlockpile is schoc

Ya know, I thought the old adage about MLB was that no matter how many injuries a team has its not used as an excuse because every team has them. Well SF management sure seems to be starting to bring that fact out to the fore-front these days. Reading Baggs and Tim K’s columns I get the distinct feeling Sabean is using all kinds of excuses these days, perhaps to save his job. And yes, rail on me for typing that about the GM, the point is his stubborness to use young players is a joke and it eventually could be his downfall ! I don’t give a hoot whether his team won it all last year or not. That was last year ! The comment about Gary Brown is assinine. If this kid isn’t ready now, when will he be ?? Sabaen is a hypocrite in my opinion. He whines about a team with no speed, well, Gary Brown is your answer along with Darren Ford. But of course, they’re not ready for major league hitting says our GM. BS !!!

@ Frank Rizzo #26 – believe me, I understand the convenience of a tablet (by the way iPads aren’t the only ones anymore). I own one and use it every day.

My point was just that Bochy is certainly not the only technologically challenged manager in the league – assuming of course he is, which seems like a fair assumption. I can’t picture Charlie Manuel tapping away on his iPad. Players on the other hand, sure I can imagine tablets are useful.

But my other point was that, while you haven’t been able to carry them around with you, you have been able to sit down at a computer or in a film room and watch those same exact at bats for a very long time. It’s far less convenient, but just as effective.

No doubt Carlos would be performing beter in Philly and Pence worse here given the clubs around them on paper, but as Baggs said this morning…..

Adding more vets to complain to Boch this morning about PT is NOT what this team needed. Keeping the youth, energy and teach/mentoring thing the kids had with the struggling vets was producing wins.

In July, Sabean called the beat writers into his office, publicly said his team sucked in not so many words and they were lucky to be where they were. Within a week, he had demoted the youth from the squad, B elt back to Fresno to get ABs, Crawford to Fresno to work out his slump, Burriss to make room for some other vet coming off the DL. What has happened since???

As a supervisor in a business, a father at home and a coach on the weekend, I don’t know too many management techniques that are successful with the we’re not good enough approach. It’s is ALWAYS a self-fulfilling prophecy unless you are so hated it inspires the we’ll show you mentality. It’s no coincidence that the club is 10-18 since.

I’m not even talking about Beltran or Pence, or the strategic part of filling the roster. I thought the Beltran trade at the time seemed like the right move. In retrospect, I was wrong. I can forgive Sabean for that. I never understood acquiring Cabrera, I wanted Furcal instead. He’s been just as ineffective so take it for what it’s worth. I also think that it would be foolish not to look back and give an honest assesment that Pence would have worked out better. Enough for us to win? I dunno….. Could that youthfull enthusiasm he spread into the Phillies clubhouse infected these hobbled vets into the playoffs the way Posey did last year? We won’t know, but it would have a much better chance than what we have seen since the trade in our lockeroom. The quiet lamentation, his injury and his ‘leadership’ Beltran has provided since, have left the club house seeemingly detached and without fire. Would it have played the same in Philly? Could this be why those Mets teams the last few years ALWAYS faded away in late August and September after getting HUGE leads. Would it have had the same affect in Philly? I dunno, but we ALL didn’t look at it that way on July 31st.

Getting to armchair quarterback the whole thing, those that clammored for Pence had it right, if we were to win THIS YEAR. I don’t know about 2 years from now, when Pence gets to walk and the club didn’t want to get all Yankees with his contract meanwhile Brown was an All-Star in Houston, Pegeuro was staring in LF, Wheeler was leading their staff and Hembree was closing out games. That would have been the price.

The saddest thing is that when they lost Buster, they didnt just lose his bat, but his leadership too. A player saying they wouldn’t know WHO would call a meeting (game story) is what is causing them to play “selfish” or not have a team feeling. Someone needs to step up and bring the club together

Keppinger is only one guy who doesn’t look defeated when he steps up to the plate. He has never been on a winning team so a) he is probably used to batting in these situations, and b) its still techinically a “winning” team.

The other guys should try to adapt his attitude. He’s been consistent.

Bochy should never have given up #15. There is bad juju on Beltran with that number now.

what are mlb rules/guidelines on adjusting park size? hows about they add an extra row or two in left field? bring the LF wall in a good 10 feet or so? give us a neutral ballpark pitchers vs hitters instead of a pitchers park that seems to be more beneficial for opposing offenses who can hit gaps better than any of our guys. our ballpark is discouraging to OUR OWN players more so than visiting teams. and the away team pitchers take advantage of pitching to our inept offense in our pitchers park. pablo would have 10 more oppo field jacks. if that was the case. maybe our offense jumps on his back.

Like most of us, I was all for bringing in Beltran, even at the expense of Wheeler. I thought we were getting a professional hitter, a proven major league all-star player who could lock down a key spot in the batting order and provide some leadership.

Over the past few weeks Beltran has shown no passion or enthusiasm for the Giants, his teammates, or the game. Truth be told he shows no emotion of any kind. We need something more than we’re getting. The team needs someone to step up and be a leader, and Carlos wants no part of that. He took two weeks off to nurse a mysterious hand injury. Extremely frustrating.

Beltran’s ABs last night were terrible. In the third inning, down 3-0 with two runners on, a three pitch strikeout. He swings at an awful pitch for strike two, then whiffs on a shoulder-high fastball that he had no chance to hit. Probably would have been ball one.

Bottom of the fifth, down 3-1, runners on second and third. First pitch to Beltran fastball right down the middle, he takes for strike one. Either he pre-determined not to swing or he wasn’t ready, but that was his pitch. Outfield single and it’s a tie game. Foul pop up to 3B ends the inning.

Bottom of the seventh, down 5-2. Keppinger just delivered a clutch single to drive in a run, lefty reliever in the game, Carlos can hit righty, supposedly less stressful on his injured hand. This time he swings at the first pitch, a down-and-in slider, and grounds out to 3B.

I see no sensible approach to each AB. I see the “see ball, hit ball” mentality, which plays right into the pitcher’s hands. I see a player devoid of any passion or fire to produce in the clutch. I see a player who has no emotional investment in this team. I find all of that extremely frustrating.

Beltran should sit out today’s game, watch the game from a different perspective, and come out ready to produce clutch hits this weekend. Bochy should move him out of the three hole, but neither of those things will happen because Bochy doesn’t want to upset Beltran.

We had enough hits and baserunners to make last night’s game close, even after our bullpen failed to pick up Vogey and gave up two critical runs (Ramirez can no longer produce in clutch situations). We needed some clutch ABs from Huff and Beltran, but we got nothing, except another painful loss and another game down.

Bochy, it’s on you to make something happen. Start today by putting up a lineup of guys who want the team to win. Today we face an over-the-hill, fifth starter for a team with the fifteenth best pitching staff in the NL. LET’S GET A WIN!

Another unhappy camper, for good and obvious reasons. The team can’t keep making other teams’ journeyman pitchers look like reincarnations of Cy Young. Even last year when we were coming up with the key big fly, there were other times when the Giants were stuck in the same useless flailing away mode. Not to write off this season, but next year’s team had better buy into and execute working the count and moving the line or there are going to be quite a few disembarking fans, and maybe pitchers also. No plate discipline or hitting and mediocre defense, a sure recipe for losing, even with decent pitching. Even that’s starting to slide.

basically, this offense is offensive even Sabean ack’d it. They were extermely lucky last year when Torres, Burrell, Huff, Posey, Uribe etc al had career years. Sabean as an experienced GM should have known that Torres could not possibly repeat his performance of last year or Burrell too. Posey hit 430 in July after being called in.

But Sabean has his head inside his arse because the division sux. It is GM’s fault. No doubt about it. Sabean thought the G’s could skate to a division title this year. No sweat right ?

I’ve also have found it interesting that Baggs pointed out the Edgar Renteria speeach as a real emotional turning point and getting the team to gel last year. It was a players only meeting.

Despite all the woe, not one of our veterans, not Huff, not Ross, not Rowand, not Cabrera, not DeRosa, not Burrell and not the symbollic leader in Beltran have called that meeting…. Why the f*ck not? If you’re going to take the managers number off his back, come in strutting like the big dawg, you better have some bite to that bark. It hasn’t been on the field, and it hasn’t been in that clubhouse.

Hell, the only reason he’s even playing is because Pablo showed him up in Houston. Otherwise he’ld still be waiting to be 100%. That’s leadership! Give up your PT and sacrifice for me so I can play when I feel 100%….

DeRosa needs to pimp slap that guy. Ya know, I might be disappointed with him. Either he or Burrell would have been the perfect guys to say, give me that one last shot, and we’ll get it done. I dunno if it would have resonnated the same but sheesh……

Which one of those clowns is going to step up, which one is going to say it’s not good enough, which one is going to push this club to will to win the way it used to last September and until July of this year? I don’t see it happening with everything I’ve been reading.

I think we’re learning EXACTLY what Edgar was worth. His stats may not have been $9M last year, but the leadership and the hitting tips that led to Rosstober sure as hell were. I hope Sabean’s happy he saved those $1.5M this offseason not offering him more than the Burrell homie discount…..

People will question my fandom for this, but I gave up on the Giants when Wilson blew the first game of the ATL series. It’s way easier to take the losses when you withdraw emotionally from the team. Cal football has been a great teacher for me.

Sabean is a joke. He got lucky that all his desperation moves in 2010 worked, that really had no business working. A career journeyman in Andres Torres was virtually team MVP, he got Burrell and Ross off the waiver scrap heap, who played out of their minds down the stretch and in the playoffs. Aubrey Huff had an anomaly of a great year. Juan Uribe picked up the slack for Pablo, and Edgar Renteria came from nowhere to perform in the World Series.

The idea of letting Uribe go and replacing him with Miguel Tejada was not dumb in the hindsight sense, though it is. It was dumb to even contemplate.

Losing Posey was a huge blow. Ditto Freddie Sanchez. But the team kept its had above water and even won 2/3 in Philly in late July before beginning its swoon.

The bottom line is the team has been a disaster ever since Beltran arrived. That gets me to the team chemistry point Baggerly brings up. It is pretty clear the Giants have selfishness on the team right now. And Beltran, with his insistence on being a RF and a switch hitter, proves he was not the kind of guy to bring into the Giants’ team.

Sabean should have been able to recognize Beltran was selfish or at least set in his own ways more than he was willing to take on a new role on a new team. Nate Schierholtz was not a great offensive force, but he was doing pretty darn well in RF, and has sucked since being moved out of that spot to placate Beltran. Hunter Pence is the guy Sabean should have pursued. Not only does he have more of the personality that would have fit the Giants’ team, he also is six years younger!

“TORTURE”..No its just plain “ANNOYING” Young guys next year,,nope.. not unless the Giants bite the bullet and hold open ST where every position is open to who ever earns it period.!! Payroll is 60 percent done for next year filled by losers from this year,, minus some pitchers of course, who may bolt anyway..

You would of said to Torres, Huff, Ross, Rowand, Burrel, Uribe, Renteria Thanks for World Sereis but now beat it.

That would of went over good. Some are stating Renteria’s and Uribe’s Veteran leadership is why this team is slipping. Cause we sent them on there way cause they would not take what was offered them.

Its easy to see now what should of been done. We are all Genuis’s after the fact. One small obstacle this thing is not over tell its over.

Baseball is a funny game what last night Garcia was 3-48 as a hitter and had 2 hits. Yet we are struggling for any kind of hit. With proven MLB hitters. Sometimes things are not as hard as we make them.

We are in a funk as a team and will come out as a team and even better then before strength comes in adversity.

The biggest issue was not Beltran, per se, but the roster moves that accompanied he and Cabrera. Youth was exiled and the energy went with it.

Something to consider: Suppose Crawford had not been sent down because Cabrera was not acquired. He kept struggling around .200 with good D, but kept the main job when Tejada got healthy. Tejada would still have been, no matter how reluctantly, in a mentor role.

Now, I don’t know Tejada, but do you think he pulls that crap about the bunt the other night had he been mentoring Crawford in any fashion? No rookies allowed players to become more selfish, especially adding Chris Boyd’s 9:19 points on what Sabean said publicly. Without rookies, the “vets” went egocentric upon Sabean’s challenge, abandoning the team aspect of things, becoming selfish. Had the rookies remained, at least some would have thought it their responsibility to improve not just themselves, but the young guys, creating more of a team aspect.

So much can change with a little good fortune in the next few days, however, because what haunts the Giants right now is mental more than physical. Wasn’t that supposedly Bochy’s strong suit?

Tito – you can come to my burned down house and watch the sun rise cause this party is OVER!

Sabean is wrong again. Brown is 22 going on 23. Get his ass up here and let him get a month in the big leagues. Glad to see everyone pissed off. They should be. Bochy and Sabean have spoiled the golden goose.

I am as big a Gary Brown fan as anyone, as many of you already know. I can’t wait to see the kid play in the bigs, and I do think he could help us win games right now. However, as I’ve let logic creep back in a bit, I agree with the move of not bringing him up this year. I agree with the logic behind letting him feel good about his first professional season, rather than potentially mucking that up by exposing him to big league pitching.

I also think the role that they would use him for for the most part, pinch runner and defensive sub, can easily be filled by Ford. He has done a great job of it in the past, he can do it again.

I think it’s an intelligent decision, and the goal behind it is to do what’s right for Brown now and what’s right for the club long-term.

there are some idiots on here that have been drinking the kool aids and let Sabean skate for long time.

Sabean was lucky last year. Sabean was lucky when Lincecum dropped in the draft because teams were concerned about his size. Sabean and Tidrow have been drafting and picking thousand of arms then traded them away for vets. Many were busts. The fact was Mcgowan before leaving demanded Sabean must hire a head scout , Barr or his arse would be canned. Tidrow was supposedly expert on pitching but look at the arms they traded away. Where would the G’s be this year w/o Vogelsong ? Oh Sabean will sign Vogelsong to 2 year contract for sure then watch him crash and burn next year.

Oh I am very happy that they won last year but people need to open their eyes because Sabean is back to his tricks again. Fortunately, Barr is now running the draft instead of Tidrow. Maybe they will be able to get some position players.

@ dan – what “arms” have they traded away for vets? What legitimate pitching prospects have they dealt? Leave Wheeler aside, Sabean said before he did it that it wasn’t what he would normally do. So…what “arms” are you so upset about losing?

We keep on saying things that are just plain ignorant. without looking at facts.

Since Beltran has arrived So it must be all his fault chemistry, sad saks not getting playing time and out of position. BS!

This is the MLB not Little League.

This pitching staff is great. Lets see last two games lost 12 runs given up since when is that great.

Matt Cain gave up 4 runs because of the offense Timmy Lincecum gave up 5 runs cause of the offense. BS Sorry its crunch time Aces step up.

Wilson and Romo 8th & 9th inning relievers have both been mia because of injuries forced to the DL and that has been felt the trickle down effect has hurt the bullpen and given guys rolls they are not accustom to or accustom to suceeding in.

Brandon Belt All except for 2 games has been The worse striking out machine. no clutch hitting machine. (Not blaming him at all he has been forced into this situation just a part of what has gone wrong lately)

Stewert and Eli Whiteside Catchers both are back ups. And If all else would not of failed we would not be talking about these two. but here we are. They are what they are. nothing more nothing less. Eyes have been cast on them cause the failure of others to keep eyes else where.

Beltran I am not giving this guy a pass. He has not been what was advertised and he knows it.

Ross, Huff, Torres, Rowand, Tejeda,DeRosa, Cabrera, Keppinger you can go down the list all have weaknesses that have been exposed. And all have strengthes that where revelaled last year. There is still more of this year I say to all stay tuned? There strength is when they been knocked down and are bleeding and everybody is saying throw the towel in. Like Rocky they get back up and Yell YO ADRIAN! Its On!

wisdom cow and mavo, you guys are optimists, and that’s great. lots of doom and gloom on here, from myself too because I just don’t see it turning around. the hitting we all know about, but based on their body language and their general lack of approach, coupled with managements seeming commitment to go down with the ship, I don’t even think they’ll finish above .500.

@all – so much to be on the soap box about, but at the end of the Day we have no control over what happens or doesn’t happen. What we can control is our support for the Giants through good times and bad, that is being a fan, that is being faithful. And, yes as a Fan I get just frustrated, pissed, don’t get it, etc….. as the next guy, but I have to believe and have faith……they are the Giants.

Here is to closing out August with a W and into Sept. The boys only have one way to go up….so let’s see how they sprint up that mountain and see where we are when the last out is made in Sept.

Oh yeah, and how much monger would we have give Rent-a-wreck a leash after last October, even is he was having a Tejada-esque season.

Damn, signing that pouting clown was the knee jerk downfall of the whole thing. Let’s look at this as a story….

After blowing his wad on Miggy, no money for anyone else at short. Hardy goes to Baltimore when you could have had him. San Diego pulls off the trade for Bartlet two weeks later giggling to get rid of the guy who brought a 10 game losing streak with him last year. You try to bribe Edgar with a Homie D contract, piss him off to Cincinatti. Get stuck playing Te-poo-poo at short where by the 3rd spring training game everyone knows it’s not going to work. Crawford gets hurt, Andrianza breaks a hand and you’re screwed.

All you have is a selfish, whining, way past his prime, steriod cheat, lying scumbag as a shortstop, and you can spell him with a fiesty back-up secondbase man if you have to.

NLCS MVP going to start season on DL, just in time for your spark plug and inspirational leader to pull a hammy and miss three weeks himself. Can’t miss prospect can’t hit his weight now that it’s for real, and clubhouse guy who looked serviceable in OF last year forgot how to route to a flyball in the offseason. Must have been stored in the brain cells his most recent Bud Light filled binge killed. You move the kid to LF, the to Fresno to figure it out.

You pull up everyone else from the AAA affiliate to try and plug the wholes. Some days it does, other days it doesn’t but you’re getting by. Mostly on walks by the guy who found away to hit 18 homeruns in 1/2 a season last year. He goes over 100 ABs this year without one, and short joins the menagerie on the DL. Tyring to figure out where to find a SS…..

Then some punk barely on his squad and trying to make a name for himself cross blocks your catcher into next year and you’re screwed at two positions.

Not enough prospect in the farm to trade for either a SS or a C nevermind both. It keeps you up at nights, then your manager calls to tell you that your #2 starter, he coudn’t find the strike zone with GPS and a translator. Your pitching coach reminds you the highest paid player on the team isn’t worth a sh*t, and that you only have a retread from the Pirates organization in the minors to cover. Well, at least you get lucky there.

Starting to feel good for yourself, then your best player breaks his hand, he’ll miss at least 6 weeks, maybe upto 2 months. If that wasn’t enough your former batting champion disloactes his shoulder, he’s done for this year, maybe for good. You call the kid back up, hoping things are straighten out and he promptly breaks his wrist. Oh yeah, last year big free agent acquisition, well he rips his wrist tendons off the bone. Good news, at least it doesn’t hurt anymore…..

You look up, you’re in first place by 5 games, second best record in your league, and at this time of all times you decide to rip your squad in the press. Smart move, just when things were coming together. Jettison all those kids who had been moving around and plugging those wholes like little Dutch boys and bringing in some veterans to fill their spots and nag for playing time. The bats go cold, your star deadline acquisition hurts his wrist and thoughts of last year’s free agent ‘coup’ start making you feel queezy. The club loses one series after another, and the bats stay silent. The Pitching staff that has been carrying your happy butt all year starts to get frustrated. Most critical roady of the year, the under appreciated, over taxed bullpen finally cries uncle for the games after all the 6 – 7 innings games of shutout not hit ball they provided. You loose your set-up man and closer. It’s not that big of a loss and people don’t notice too much because Kurt Bevacqua could hit better than anyone in the clubhouse. Your staff ace finally breaksdown and gives up, as the old guys can’t get to balls the kids were catching a few weeks ago. It gets real, real dark, you look up and you’re 6 back in less than month.

How does the story end? Do they kids come back, give old guys new life and remind them of what they were, or more likely, do they just get to watch the horor in front of them like a stunned 15 year old seeing “Red Asphalt” for the first time. I dunno… it just seems to hard to write a happy ending to it though….

funny…pill rips up AAA and he’s not ready, you can’t go by that, pcl nos. are scured (?)….brown rips up A and he needs seasonong in AAA…and if he tears up AAA, what, …why even have a team in the pcl if we can’t evaluate our players progress there?

go giants…i’ll give up when the math says to, until then, i am behind the team 100%…by the way…i root for the name on the front of the jersey, not the back!

PByran, I’m convinced that Sabean hasn’t made any move not agreed to Bork himself. This became pretty obvious last season with when we picked up Guillen. Same thing this season. They didn’t bring this dead wood in to sit on the bench. They had every intention of clogging up the lineup with it.

It’s not Tito the idiot’s fault that Beltran sucks. We didn’t need an oft injured grizzled RF, we needed a leadoff hitting CF, a solid defensive shortstop and anything close to an improvement behind the plate. Belt should have been our starting 1B since about June. Bork had opportunities to send messages to the underperforming vets on numerous occasions, instead, they find the lineup day after day after day.

What are that pathetic combo of Rowand, DeRosa and Cabrera still doing on the roster? They’ve brought nothing to table. Let’s get some more youth up to get a glimpse of what should be the future.

This team is done. Was at the game yesterday. Absolutely pathetic performance by the team again after getting shutout. The cards dealt to Henley Meulens. He can thank GM Brian Sabean for that. The things that Sabes should regret is not getting a catcher way back when in May. And he said we will be fine with Whiteside and Stewart. Whiteside is 0 for 6 in his last 6 plate appearances with 6 strikeouts and has a .210’s batting average and Chris Stewart is in the .180’s batting average. At this point, let’s give Hector Sanchez the reigns to mold with the staff and maybe become the backup to Buster Posey next year and at worst case scenario, become a good fill-in there with his offensive potential and bat that we’ve been hearing about. It was nice to see him get that clutch hit rbi vs. the padres a week or so ago. And his reward, optioned back to minors for weak hitting, weak throwing, defensive liability Whiteside. Rowand, Cabrera, Whiteside need to be DFA’d. Huff, we are stuck with one more season. And lets get Crawford back at SS. Those plays in the holes that become hits, which in essence become more baserunners and potential runs against our pitchers with Fontenot and Tejada and Cabrera there has been minor problems, but I think Giants not sticking with the tight knit defense has been their wrongdoing as well. I would like to see DeRosa gets some more PT. The ball is jumping off his bat and guy has been clutch in his last few appearances. Forget his average, his time with us due to injuries, the guy had the knack of hitting in the clutch and that is what this team is missing. And we need Nate the Great back who was clutch for us all season with his timely hits and defense and the only guy driving runs in with RISP is Jeff Keppinger. Beltran has been a bad deal, no way to sugercoat it. It is not totally his fault for the team’s overall struggles but he changed the dynamic of this team, changed its chemistry, pitching took a step back when he came here and it has been downhill ever since. It was so sad yesterday, thousands and thousands of fans were booing throughout the game at Beltran, Huff, Rowand when he struck out, etc and that maybe half the fans in attendance were left in the 8th inning with the score only 5-2 at the time. That’s the state of our fans from management failing to get rid of some of these struggling vets, not playing some young guys sooner and not acquiring a catcher since losing Posey and basically thinking we can get by with two backups.

I won’t cheer for Rowand leaving…. but if it’s true, it needs to be done.

Sure he underperformed. Didn’t live up to the deal, and looks to be done at the plate. But the guy worked his butt off and he tried. Despite what he felt about losing his playing time, he never showed up a coach on the field, threw a tantrum running out a ground ball, complained about his role, etc.

He might have said something to a reporter in Chicago that didn’t make me too pleased, but I don’t think he expected that to get back to SF and certainly not the way it was recieved. I think he really tried to do it the right way. Too bad it didn’t work out.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Outfielder Aaron Rowand and infielder Miguel Tejada have been designated for assignment by the San Francisco Giants, a major shake-up for the stumbling defending World Series champions.

The Giants made the moves Wednesday, when they began the day trailing first-place Arizona by a season-high six games in the NL West race.

Rowand, the team’s second-highest paid player behind pitcher Barry Zito, is making $12 million this season and was due the same for 2012. He was batting .233 with four home runs and 21 RBIs in 108 games.

Tejada received a $6.5 million, one-year free agent deal in December to join the Giants. He was batting .239 with four homers and 26 RBIs in 91 games.

Rowand a gamer? LOL!..he was all bust. The only way to get on base was to stick his face in front of a ball. Or Rowand was punishing himself for stinking?
Rowand,Huff,Zito,Ross,..all quit as soon as the big money contract was signed.

If they do continue to disintergrate while we watch, so be it. Just play like a professionals and see what develops. The bet on standing pat last winter didn’t pay, it happens. Now become a speed team and dump this ‘station to station’ stuff, it doesn’t fit the park in any case.

As to saviors, as a footnote, Beltran and Belt turned into what they are; a .280 hitter and a kid trying to get his legs under himself. Not a slam, just a fact.

These moves are overdue. Performance aside, Tejada’s last straw was the bunt debacle, and Rowand’s ticket out of town was being printed when he said those quotes about how much he loved Chicago. There’s no room on the team for guys who don’t want to be here and don’t buy into the team. Good riddance to bad trash. Yes, Rowand was a gamer, but he obviously did not want to be here.

Maybe it’s kinda sad how excited I am to hear Tejada and Rowand are gone, but hey, the way this season is going, I gotta find the positives where I can!

This is great that those 2 are finally gone but you still have Bochy. And this will be his line up.

1. Torres – Should be gone as well.
2. Kepp – Keeper
3. Beltran – Keeper for now
4. Pablo
5. Huff – should see less playing time but won’t.
6. Burrell – playing on a bad foot and taking away time from youth. I like Pat though.
7. Cabrera – should be gone with Tejada – let Crawford play.
8. Whiteside – Should be DFA as well. Let Hector play.
9. Zito – no way in hell he is going anywhere.

you guys gotta remember all the injuries, if not all these players were on the DL, then the giants would have a pretty good lineup. all they would need would be a leadoff hitter. for now it has to be torres, but if the giants keep there trade acquisitions next year, maybe they could have sanchez lead off. that is my thought even if it sounds crazy, he doesn’t have speed but he is better than torres. this is what the giants lineup could look like

patricio, I am no optimist. I said the house is burnt down to near nothing.

I also pointed out that there is a difference between sitting and waiting for something good to happen and rooting / willing good things to happen. The “enjoy the game” crowd tends to wait. I am one always looking for ways to improve.

It is really frustrating to see how many people have given up. If the majority of fans are doing it, some players are doing it too.

But seriously, be objective. A few lucky breaks and the team will gain confidence, just as fans seem to think a WS is destined after a single good game.

The Giants are not 6 games back with 8 games to play. There are 26 games still, with 6 against AZ. The offense only need improve slightly for the pitching to be enough.

I just don’t get people. The time to be angry was earlier in the year when the mistakes were being made and when there was time and opportunity to correct them. That time has past. Tomorrow there will be some more blood, young blood, and Mr. Out Of Ideas will have options he will feel forced to try. The only thing to do right now is root like hell for the boys to turn things around!

Now, it may become time for pitchforks and anger in less than a week, should the Giants be more than 6 games back after the AZ series, as hope will be exchanged for miracle wishes, but right now, a come back is still realistic.

It may be unlikely, but do you think AZ believes it is over? Hell no. Why? Because they have 3 against the Champs this weekend, and if they lose the series, just lose 2 of 3, and it will have them upset they did not put a foot to the Giants’ neck. If they get swept, they’ll be nervous. Either way, they’ll be looking over their shoulder.

Right now, the Giants have an infinitely better chance to go to the World Series again than a team like the Pirates had at the beginning of the season. Did their fans have no hope?

This is as close as it gets to the playoffs, people. This week is what it is about to be a fan that roots for the team instead of one that sits back and waits. This week (well, maybe only a few days, lol) is when cheering them on can matter. It is when we, WE, can actually help the team.

That isn’t optimism. It’s knowing this is fish or cut bait week. The playoffs are starting now. Let’s watch AZ, on such a good run, start to get nervous. And heck, if they do go 20-6 to close the year, we can gladly tip our caps to them, and I’ll even root for them in the playoffs, our NL West brethren written off not long ago.

luck only exists in games of chance…cards, dice…no luck in games of skill, in games of skill, talent always wins out…anyone who thinks the giants were lucky last year, take a look at their pitching staff…just because they weren’t the bronx bombers doesn’t mean they weren’t the best team…

Losing those two won’t make them better, unless the guys that replace them outplay them. Don’t get too excited about rookies hitting like pros in this pressure cooker. The big chnage this could be the harbinger of, is SPEED. Now that could make a difference in the 26 or so games left.

Lucky is when the FBI decides to go after Guillen when they did instead of after the playoffs. Luck is the Ump throwing a ball to the pitcher in a crucial spot that happens to be harder or softer than the others in his pouch, or even have a slight scuff. Luck is nearly everywhere. It may not be enough, but it is there.

this was Sabean’s decision with Neukom’s OK because of the money involved, you know that. It’s been coming for two weeks since Bochy sat Rowand down and just decided to pinch hit him. Like I said day before, two or three guys will play themselves out of jobs this week.

guillen may have had a better serries the ross…a harder ball, poor manufacturing…you can come up with anything and i can give you a logical reason…luck only exists in games of chance…luck, fate, sorry no way

I’m thinking Reyes is going for Crawford money (7 for $142M) but its back loaded. Jose won’t be that nice, and I wouldn’t sign anyone for a deal past 5 years. Maybe his injury history limits him to a 5 yr and $75-$85M. I might go there….. Depends on the market. I will be interested to asee where it goes.

Rollins might be more do-able. Is a Bay Area guy. He’s 32, so pushing much past 4 years is a stretch. I don’t think he could command much over $12M per. I just don’t think Philly is silly enough to let him get completely in the open, and I’m not so sure Rollins won’t accept arbitration if Philly wins again.

After that, we’re going with Crawford… the market drop off fast. Maybe get Furcal cheap and hope he can turn it around… but St. Louis hasn’t helped him.

WOW when i said this morning let the dfa party begin, little did i know it’s was going to be prophetic. well giant fans we finally get to see Pill come up.
let’s hope he’s the magic “pill” to cure what ails the offense. pun fully intended.

next good new will be hearing sabean pulls off trading Rowand and Tejeda for more than a bag of balls, hell at this point i’d take a bag of balls. balls are expensive these days after all.

Maybe the hitter. Maybe the ball sent to the pitcher was not as soft as the others in the Ump’s pouch. Maybe that little bit of difference made the break on the pitch just a bit less than it otherwise would have been.

card counting can only improve your odds (luck)…what’s not to comprehend, 1…2…3 JK, i understand it i saw the movie

did you just answer my question with a bunch of maybe’s…surely if luck exists in skilled games you can give me a difinitive answer, right?, i mean just by the question you asked me, somebody got lucky, right?

Chris Boyd says:
August 31st, 2011 at 9:44 am 93..I’ve also have found it interesting that Baggs pointed out the Edgar Renteria speeach as a real emotional turning point and getting the team to gel last year. It was a players only meeting….(and more)

manus says: August 31st, 2011 at 8:20 am 59..A good batting coach CAN change
anyone’s mind on how to do it better. Get a better coach. Every other team seems to batting ok….

As for the players, sometimes “success” corrupts….

I disagree. Muelens tried to change Rowand and others. Side work in the cage is not translated back ONTO the field. I’ve seen it too many times. McGwire came back to St Louis as a much ballyhooed-so-called-expert. His prize pupil was Colby Rasmus….and he got traded.

I grew up watching Mays step into the bucket and he was the best player the universe ever produced.

The Mental side of hitting is different than the physicality of hitting. The Current Giants take good pitches and swing at bad pitches.
– They have not “put a good swing on a good pitch” in quite awhile.
– They are not good at getting a guy on – get him over – and get him in.
– They don’t make good/productive outs.
– With the infield back and a man on 3rd with 0 or 1 outs they can’t hit a groundball to the infield to save their life.

It’s NOT Muelens fault – not Carney Lansford’s Fault – it not Joe Lefevre’s fault. Go ahead and blame them if YOU want and maybe they will be a token firing but it is an organizational problem at the big league level.

Not always, which is precisely the point! Luck CAN have an effect. The best possible pitch can be beaten by the best possible swing, but luck can make an otherwise perfect delivery not have the same break, letting a lesser skilled swing hit a HR.

And improving one’s odds is a skill in which winning over the long haul is no longer a matter of luck, as in baseball, only to a significantly lesser degree.

it’s imposible to argue w/ someone who keeps changing their arguement…you said the pitcher got lucky, but i beat that arguemnt so now you agree that “maybe” he didn’t and now your talking about swings…either admit your wrong, or argue your point, but don’t now agree w/ me and then change your arguement to another specific, like i said, you name it and i’ll give you a logical reason or arguement, but then stick w/ the point, ok, i don’t want to follow your arguemnts around…

You are full of crap, robert. My original point was that luck is present in baseball. Luck is not limited to games of chance.

A ball hits off the right field wall. Skill can only help so much as to your positioning and readiness. Where that ball goes off of all the nooks, bars, and fencing will have a component of luck involved.

we’re going to have to agree to disagree, your newest point…has everything to do with trajectory(most likely spelled wrong, sry), speed, wind…i have no prob w/ you cow, enjoy your posts…good luck in reno

full of crap was strong, but you have to see my point. To argue trajectory as if the skill would determine how a ball hit 300+ feet in wind would bounce off of a chain link fence with posts is nearly the same as saying a dice thrower in craps can control the speed and trajectory of the dice to know the outcome of each die.

The game is a complex paradigm with variable outside a players ability to control or factor in execution completely.

Before agreeing to disagree, I’ll go back to your first point, skill won the WS last year vs luck, and that skill wins out. Well, it’s why they play 162 season, and 7 game series to ensure the “better” team wins as opposed to the one that got lucky. Luck is always present. Whether it makes an impact is the real crux of things. It certainly can when things are close between two teams, and it can be enough to tip the scales one way or another.

Was it “skill” that Burrell became available when he did? I am not saying the Giants did not earn the WS. But the stars aligned such that their skills were perfect for the situation. Bochy, who I think is nothing but average, was perfect for last year’s team. Now, I don’t know how you can really argue that either fate or luck was not in some part a component of the season. [to be clear, I have fate and luck as two VERY different things.]

Anyways, my ride should be here soon. didn’t mean to get confrontational about it. I got a bit anal over the “never say never” aspect of your original claim, which I don’t really think was your point, looking back, more that you felt I attributed the WS to luck without skill and that it was the fate of the team.

I think luck may have dealt us short term glory at the expense of long term success. No one loves the Giant’s more than me and yes, my dad took me to Seals Stadium in ’58. Last year when we made the PO’s on the last day of the season and then went 11-4 to run thru everybody to get the ring, it was great and overdue. However….Sabaen actually got believing the way to build a team arround the best pitching and park in BB, was thru old slow vets that no one else wanted- Huge mistake and now we’re probably stuck with him for a few more years- He’s an idiot and I want to bring back FIRESABAEN.COM

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