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I disagree, I say that that would have caused New England to secede. Bell or Douglas would have delayed it.

If that were the case, it would mean a grim future for the U.S., as they're economy collapsed because everyone stopped trading with them because of keeping a slave economy intact, and the British, still the singularly most powerful nation in the world at that time by far, would likely change their policy on having supported the Monroe Doctrine so as to stop the spread of slavery across the Western Hemisphere (preventing the "Golden Crescent"), and, of course, the growing threat of organized and even successful slave revolts in the Deep South akin to what happened in Haiti at the turn of the 19th Century. It would be a nasty scenario indeed, almost certainly. People like you would envy those New Englanders before long...

If that were the case, it would mean a grim future for the U.S., as they're economy collapsed because everyone stopped trading with them because of keeping a slave economy intact, and the British, still the singularly most powerful nation in the world at that time by far, would likely change their policy on having supported the Monroe Doctrine so as to stop the spread of slavery across the Western Hemisphere (preventing the "Golden Crescent"), and, of course, the growing threat of organized and even successful slave revolts in the Deep South akin to what happened in Haiti at the turn of the 19th Century. It would be a nasty scenario indeed, almost certainly. People like you would envy those New Englanders before long...

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Past posts on these forums you've made suggest you're in no way opposed to the institution - even if not activity and by commission in support -and that you believe that it was the Southern States rights - not just by an oversight and compromise in the early draft of the Constitution, but SEEMINGLY, by your wording, an inherent right beyond that - to practice slavery as an institution prior to the 15th Amendment, and that the end of slavery through the Civil War, Reconstruction, and the demand by the U.S. Congress that the Southern States must ratify the 15th Amendment to be allowed back into the Union they willingly left to be a violation of their States' Rights, and you have explicitly shown pride in your ancestors by calling them out specifically as slaveholders. What would that suggest to you if it were someone else?

Past posts on these forums you've made suggest you're in no way opposed to the institution

Oh boy, Patine is on his high horse today. Let's start. First, This is just patently false and a disgusting attack on my character.

5 minutes ago, Patine said:

and that you believe that it was the Southern States rights - not just by an oversight and compromise in the early draft of the Constitution, but SEEMINGLY, by your wording, an inherent right beyond that - to practice slavery as an institution prior to the 15th Amendment, and that the end of slavery through the Civil War, Reconstruction, and the demand by the U.S. Congress that the Southern States must ratify the 15th Amendment to be allowed back into the Union they willingly left to be a violation of their States' Rights

I completely disagree, in my opinion the 5th Amendment was all that was needed to abolish Slavery and the court could have reasonably done in right out of the gate. Also I believe you mean to refer to the 13th Amendment. And no, State's Rights don't People's Rights. I am a proud Republican and proud of my Party's entire history of fighting for Equality, Liberty, Culture, and Freedom. I could not say the same if I were a Democrat. And as a proud Christian I recognize we are all formed in the likeness of God and cannot be defined by some outward trait with which God has created us.

8 minutes ago, Patine said:

, and you have explicitly shown pride in your ancestors by calling them out specifically as slaveholders. What would that suggest to you if it were someone else?

I am proud of my ancestors despite them being slaveholders this is true, but it is certainly not the reason why. You love to make this grand and verbose on those with whom you disagree, yet have nothing to back it up.

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I am a proud Republican and proud of my Party's entire history of fighting for Equality, Liberty, Culture, and Freedom. I could not say the same if I were a Democrat. And as a proud Christian

What really gets me is that you, and so many other Americans, still fall for, hook, line, and sinker, for the lie, deception, and hoodwink that the Republican Party of the United States has a platform, agenda, and vision that is even remotely reminiscent of "Equality, Liberty, Culture, and Freedom," or is even close to the point of being in line in any way, shape, or form, with Christ's teaching. I'm not saying the Democratic Party of the United States is anywhere near such a party, but the level that so many Americans have been fooled by the GOP's tissue of lies beggars the imagination...

What really gets me is that you, and so many other Americans, still fall for, hook, line, and sinker, for the lie, deception, and hoodwink that the Republican Party of the United States has a platform, agenda, and vision that is even remotely reminiscent of "Equality, Liberty, Culture, and Freedom," or is even close to the point of being in line in any way, shape, or form, with Christ's teaching. I'm not saying the Democratic Party of the United States is anywhere near such a party, but the level that so many Americans have been fooled by the GOP's tissue of lies beggars the imagination...

And what really gets me is that you fall hook line and sinker for the lie, deception, and hoodwink that the Democratic Part of the United States has pulled that the GOP doesn't. I found it to be the greatest lie that a Political Party has woven in our nation's history.

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And what really gets me is that you fall hook line and sinker for the lie, deception, and hoodwink that the Democratic Part of the United States has pulled that the GOP doesn't. I found it to be the greatest lie that a Political Party has woven in our nation's history.

I don't know what one-sided, partisan deception you think I've fallen for. I know for a fact that both major U.S. parties are chalk full of lies, ulterior motives, evil agendas, corruption, secrets kept because they're actions of government malignant to their own people, and, of course dividing almost the whole of the American viciously against each other to settle their own ideological scores and powers. I'm sorry if I don't fall into the black-and-white, binary, Neo-Manichaeistic expectations everyone is expected to on every issue in the modern day but, hey, both main U.S. parties are engines of evil, deceit, tyranny, and greed, not just one.

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No. I do admit my last post (but none of the ones previous) was deliberately hyperbolic and flippant. I just found you making light of an aggregious fact ignored by so many, or cloaked in lies so many willingly and eagerly believe despite powerful evidence to the contrary, to be slightly irritating.

No. I do admit my last post (but none of the ones previous) was deliberately hyperbolic and flippant. I just found you making light of an aggregious fact ignored by so many, or cloaked in lies so many willingly and eagerly believe despite powerful evidence to the contrary, to be slightly irritating.

That post read like you consider pols to be the epitome of evil.

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Well, given the Armies of Mordor or the Undead Beyond the Wall of the North, Palpatine's Galactic Empire, the Demonic Legions of the Pit, and other such forces aren't active in the world, did you have better candidates than political parties - oh, and mega-corporations, too?

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Lol @Patine there common words,used in correct sentence form..There just synonyms...I could post the american dictionary definition if you'd like..

It doesn't really matter. It's not really the point of what was being discussed as a whole here. The content of a discussion or debate should indeed take precedent over it's presentation, which basically defeats the purpose of the statement of your original post there.

Oh boy, Patine is on his high horse today. Let's start. First, This is just patently false and a disgusting attack on my character.

I completely disagree, in my opinion the 5th Amendment was all that was needed to abolish Slavery and the court could have reasonably done in right out of the gate. Also I believe you mean to refer to the 13th Amendment. And no, State's Rights don't People's Rights. I am a proud Republican and proud of my Party's entire history of fighting for Equality, Liberty, Culture, and Freedom. I could not say the same if I were a Democrat. And as a proud Christian I recognize we are all formed in the likeness of God and cannot be defined by some outward trait with which God has created us.

I am proud of my ancestors despite them being slaveholders this is true, but it is certainly not the reason why. You love to make this grand and verbose on those with whom you disagree, yet have nothing to back it up.

I think @Patine is a needed character on this forum, someone who can nit pick and find things wrong in the littlest of things,however i respect him and enjoy him being on the forum,as he does even out the political knowledge on this forum as he has an abundance on it.

It doesn't really matter. It's not really the point of what was being discussed as a whole here. The content of a discussion or debate should indeed take precedent over it's presentation, which basically defeats the purpose of the statement of your original post there.

I was saying cause there was toxicity starting in the discussion,so perhaps it was warranted.

It doesn't really matter. It's not really the point of what was being discussed as a whole here. The content of a discussion or debate should indeed take precedent over it's presentation, which basically defeats the purpose of the statement of your original post there.

You were the one who brought it up though, you have no right to say it is irrelevant.

3 minutes ago, TheMiddlePolitical said:

I think @Patine is a needed character on this forum, someone who can nit pick and find things wrong in the littlest of things,however i respect him and enjoy him being on the forum,as he does even out the political knowledge on this forum as he has an abundance on it.

I agree, but he has days where it gets really bad and he becomes extraordinarily toxic.