Can't believe people are actually entertaining UD like he's not trolling out his bunhole, the Colts gave Peyton a brand new batch if WRs and RBs in 2009 and Peyton was an INT away from winning the SB that year. The Pats gave Brady a competent defense and a young WR corps with the hopes that Tom Brady will be Tom Brady and he'll work the guys through and help them like he did with Gronk and Hern, Branch and Givens, Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney...like Welker.

Have some faith in Tom Brady, will ya? BB is leaving him to take care of the offense with McD, Belichick will handle the defense

Rusty makes the same argument that UD6 makes. The only player Rusty ever mentions is Ocho. But please, does anyone think that's a good example anymore after Ocho's performance in Miami? And Jri is right that Lloyd is a perfect example of how Brady does get new receivers involved if they have any ability at all.

This is a kind way to say, "Wow is UD6 wrong!"

Funny how Rusty's arguments are identical to those of a guy Rusty always calls a troll.

Maybe a new GM is the true solution. HCs have enough delegating responsibilities to their staff. Before the BB era, the biggest folly or gaffe by the Pats was taking Eason over Marino. I've compiled a list of questionable picks during BB's reign. Trading down in '09 to acquire Gronk, Hern or McCourty in the '10 dreaft. He passed on Matthews who went 26th in the first round and should have been a top 10 pick IMO. Passes on Jarius Byrd for Chung. Passed on Wallace and Jennings for Brandon Tate. Takes Bethel Jackson with Osi, Witten and Boldin still up on the board. Picks Graham with Ed Reed available. Picks Maroney with Hester, Jones-Drew and Jennings still there. Picks Thomas and Mills with Dumervill and Brandon Marshall on the board. The list of first and second round busts is just as bad. All GMs, coaches and scouts make poor choices, so this is not a beat down on BB. 'Life's like a box of chocolates, 'cause you never know what you're going to get.' Go Forest !!!!!!!!!

Just read the facts and stop trying to prove to us BB and your own infallibility. My sole procreation is a neuro surgeon in Bean Town. That puts her a few rungs above your imaginary intelligence ladder, which, by the way means shiot to participants here. Oh, and my IQ is flirtatiously close to yours, but they both pale verses my daughter's. You've just lost your umteen argument on the Globe. I'll ask my daughter what part of YOUR grey matter was dysfuntionally impaired to make you who you are. I'll get back to you on that. Mean while, argue, berate and continue disparaging people on this forum. It's probably the only pleasurable function you have in life. No. I will not call you a loser or denegrate you. You own the board on that agenda. Now you go on ignore.

Here's an alternate title for this thread: "What I would have done if I were GM: A Revisionist history based purely on hindsight." By Don'tQuestionBB, a troll in fan's clothing, ably supported by the handwringers and told-you-sos.

Nobody was complaining when they signed Gronk and Hdz to those contracts. The coverage was overwhelmingly favorable. I recall terms like "win-win" and "forward thinking" and "ahead of the curve" being used.

Now, we know you're all football geniuses and have forgotten more about running a team than BB will ever know, but where were you back then? Just wondering.

I'm not faulting the patriots decisions, except maybe for Welker, if only because they knew they had injury issues to be resolved with Gronkowski. They could not have foreseen the Hernandez issue, obviously. I am only considering their current situation. And I am not saying I am right, I am just providing discussion fodder.

If my remarks are, in your opinion, incorrect then challenge that.

Do the pats not dispassionately view players situations and contracts? Is this situation now completely in flux? I heard this week on NFL radio that the pats may now have to "accelerate" Gronkowski's rehab. Do they really want to do this? But do they not have another choice? Apparently, Ballard is not yet ready.

The Pats have had no down field threat. Dobson could be that. If healthy Amendola is probably 90% of Welker. They won games without Hernandez and Gronk last year they could do it again this year. Also a key will be if Ridley can stop the fumbles and the continued develop of Vareen. Another thing that will help the Pats offensive will be the shorter field that a better return game will bring.

I am not trying to stir the pot. I am, however, considering how dispassionately the pats look at players when it comes to value, contracts, and situations. It is my opinion that Brady has not done a great job developing receivers. There have been plenty that have come through the pats system that haven't become effective for the pats. Now, I'll mostly blame the receivers for this, but I do believe that once Brady finds valuable targets and synergy with those targets, he forgets the others - at least that seems to be the case for the last half dozen years.

As of today - there isn't a single one of those targets that is anticipated to start the season. No Gronkowski, no Hernandez, no Welker, no Branch. Further - another one year project, Lloyd is also gone.

When Brady was more game manager and not the focal point (when the pats were winning superbowls) they had a very effective running game and a legendary defense that never let an opponent's offense take over a game. Do they have either or those now?

If the answer is no, then the focus remains on the great Brady with tools with whom he has no long term relationship or synergy.

So again, given the way the pats dispassionately evaluate players, values, and situations, a Brady move is worth consideration. Brady just restructured his contract in a way that nearly any team in the NFL would give away the house for.

Okay, what Pat's recievers that TB didn't "develop" went to other teams and were "developed" by those teams and their QB's.

Perhaps the recievers they gave him to "develop" weren't capable of being "developed"?

As I noted, I put most of the issue on the receivers that didn't develop, but I do believe Brady locks in to those that work and that inhibits the progress of others. I accept that I could be wrong, but I stand by my opinion. Further, receivers that are relegated to teams with significantly lesser QB's will never get that development. Look how effective Larry Fitzgerald was this year. Brady has the capability to take receivers to a higher level where most other QB's do not. I am not sure he has.

All I asked for was the recievers that he failed to "develop" that were successful elsewhere. That would prove your theory.

So are you saying that if Brady had a comprable reciever like Larry Fitzgerald... let's say like Randy Moss that Brady would be unable to to take him to a higher level?

I disagree with your assumption based on your sole criteria, and I did say that I put most on the receivers for their own lack of development, but as I noted there are also other factors involved such as to what teams they went and who their QB's were and whether or not the team was stable. If you wish to place this issue on the team making drafting mistakes, there's that too, but somehow Brady's got to bear some responsibility for not being able to find value in these players.

And no about Fitzgerald, the comment was in support of my point that when good receivers are put in poor situations then they can't/won't produce. They can't throw the ball to themselves. Where ineffective QB's diminish a WR's talent, a great QB like Brady can allow it to flourish, AND he can turn marginal receivers into effective ones. But if a guy like Brady has already established who his targets will be, the rest of the receiving group is left to fail.

We are going to agree to disagree. My sole criteria was in response to your allegation that "brady has not done a great job developing recievers.

I asked for some examples of recievers he failed to "develop" that went to other teams and were "developed". This would give credence to your assertion. So your premise is just an opinion without any facts or anecdotal evidence to support it.

What is funny is somehow Brady got Brandon LLoyd 70 + catches and lloyd is not even on an NFL 90 man roster. Seems to me he does what he can with what they give him.

Look Jri, unlike many here I don't assume that my opinions aren't arguable. That said, I made the statement based on my thoughts not yours. And yours don't discredit mine, so you can maintain your opinion based on your your criteria and I'll maintain mine.

Brandon Llloyd was another vet receiver, not one Brady needed to develop. But you bring up a good point. Why does management keep taking away receivers who appear to produce?

Yeah right poor poor Brady. Give me a break. You forgot to mention that he had the best TE in the game, great offensive line, and a top 5 rb. BB has completely rebuilt the defense to where it will certainly quiet all of those here who love to rag on it. We won all of our Super Bowls on solid play by Brady and the defense, not fantasy football 400 yard passing games. All of the talk about a "deep threat", who's going to throw it deep? Mallet ? Has anyone seen Bradys throws over 35 yards the past three years?

I am not trying to stir the pot. I am, however, considering how dispassionately the pats look at players when it comes to value, contracts, and situations. It is my opinion that Brady has not done a great job developing receivers. There have been plenty that have come through the pats system that haven't become effective for the pats. Now, I'll mostly blame the receivers for this, but I do believe that once Brady finds valuable targets and synergy with those targets, he forgets the others - at least that seems to be the case for the last half dozen years.

As of today - there isn't a single one of those targets that is anticipated to start the season. No Gronkowski, no Hernandez, no Welker, no Branch. Further - another one year project, Lloyd is also gone.

When Brady was more game manager and not the focal point (when the pats were winning superbowls) they had a very effective running game and a legendary defense that never let an opponent's offense take over a game. Do they have either or those now?

If the answer is no, then the focus remains on the great Brady with tools with whom he has no long term relationship or synergy.

So again, given the way the pats dispassionately evaluate players, values, and situations, a Brady move is worth consideration. Brady just restructured his contract in a way that nearly any team in the NFL would give away the house for.

Okay, what Pat's recievers that TB didn't "develop" went to other teams and were "developed" by those teams and their QB's.

Perhaps the recievers they gave him to "develop" weren't capable of being "developed"?

This is my take. When the Pats get a new good receiver (Hern, Gronk), Brady gets him involved right away. The problem is that most of the receivers we've brought in were just bad. It's a player acquisition problem, not a player development problem.

Well, how many quality selections have NE really spent on WR? And how many quality FA have they really brought in? And how devoted is their drafting strategy to even having "ace" WRs?

When they've gone for quality, Brady has set records with guys like Gronk and Moss. Won MVPs with casts that included Branch, Givens, and Graham as major features. And they've even uncovered record setters like Welker. When they've gone for quality most often they've gotten quality results. He17, they've gotten quality results with some real scrubs.

Yes, Chad Jackson and Bethel Johnson ... but did they do *anything* after NE? No. They stunk as selections. No one made them better. They didn't click anywhere else.

Here are the top 25 WRs/TEs from the last 3 years in receiving and together they compose all the players that have graced the top 15 WRs in each of the last three seasons:

Calvin Johnson 1st Rnd

Andre Johnson 1st Rnd

Brandon Marshall 4th Rnd

Demaryius Thomas 1st Rnd

Vincent Jackson 2nd Rnd

Dez Bryant 1st Rnd

Wes Welker UDFA ("developed" by Tom Brady)

Roddy White 1st Rnd

A.J. Green 1st Rnd

Julio Jones 1st Rnd

Steve Smith 3rd Rnd

Marques Colston 7th Rd

Jimmy Graham 3rd Rnd

Michael Crabtree 1st Rnd

Victor Cruz UDFA

Rob Gronkowski 2nd Rnd

Mike Wallace 2nd Rnd

Jordy Nelson 2nd Rd

Eric Decker 3rd Rnd

Hakeem Nicks 1st Rnd

Dwayne Bowe 1st Rnd

Larry Fitzgerald 1st Rnd

Reggie Wayne 1st Rnd

Santana Moss 2nd Rnd (33rd selection)

Desean Jackson 1st Rnd

Notice a trend? 13 of them are first rounders. 4 of them are 2nd rounders. Of the rest, drafted lower than the third ... one of them was "developed" by Tom Brady and is a perrenial top 10 Wr.

The problem with WR here is the same with the problem NE had at getting pass rushers: that BB keeps drafting players that are versatile like Brandon Tate and Bethel Johnson and Daniel Graham with mixed results, or players that made people scratch their head like Taylor Price.

I just don't think that is a great strategy for some skill positions like WR, CB and DE/OLB (perhaps the spots they've struggled with the most). These roster spots are mono-taskers typically if they are to be great.

There was this amazing line about Mollasses Mike Jenkins in one of the articles. They focused on his ability to be an ace blocker downfield, as against his incredibly slow speed and inability to create separation.The writer said something to the effect that "It's nice that they are clicking, and he should create a big target that can do what Lloyd did for NE, short area possession catches, but at the end of the day having a great blocking WR is like having a great defensive first baseman. If he is starting for you, you are probably looking for a replacement."

NE's hit with two second rounders and missed with another two. They hit with one first rounder and missed with another, both at TE.

But overall, they've made some oddball selections like grabbing a blocking TE with a 32, or a KR Wr with a 2nd rounder hoping for versatility and getting mixed results.

This is why I loved the Dobson selection. If they miss with it, fine. But they would have missed the right way, actually taking a chance on a guy who can do one thing rather than hedging their bets and increasing the possibility of the getting the worst of both worlds instead of a player that has a high chance of sticking if only at special teams.

And if Ne wants an ACE WR like Fitzy or Megatron or Demaryius Thomas or any of those others up there, they should do what those teams did and pony up a 1st rounder on a WR. A real WR, not a WR with questions about his receiving ability, athletic upside, and a great resume as a KR/PR, either. Not a TE with questions about his speed and hands, but who is an amazing blocker, but a bonafide (he is either going to catch passes or be off the team) selection with a great resume as a WR and only as a WR.

Otherwise, it's clear it's not that high a priority. Which is fine, if that is their strategy.

Just don't pin it on Brady, who has set records, won SBs, and won MVPs with some pretty gnarly cast-offs and low rounders and been let down by some pretty shoddy selections (Johnson, Watson, Jackson, et al).

It is my opinion that Brady has not done a great job developing receivers.

Great opinion troll. Same old agenda with a flimsy facade morning noon and night from you.

I suppose Welker going from a nobody to the premier number of catches guy, Branch going from a solid #1 WR to a backup and a supposedly washed up Moss setting the league on fire are all examples of receivers negatively influenced by Brady.

Give us your list of guys who left Brady and set the league on fire with another QB or even caught on with a team and became a significantly greater contributor. That will be a micro list.

Yeah right poor poor Brady. Give me a break. You forgot to mention that he had the best TE in the game, great offensive line, and a top 5 rb. BB has completely rebuilt the defense to where it will certainly quiet all of those here who love to rag on it. We won all of our Super Bowls on solid play by Brady and the defense, not fantasy football 400 yard passing games. All of the talk about a "deep threat", who's going to throw it deep? Mallet ? Has anyone seen Bradys throws over 35 yards the past three years?

Wow, brilliant. Too bad Gronk virtually wasn't there for the last SB, that great O-line got owned by the Giants in another and that great RB coughed up a hairball at the absolutely worst time one could imagine in our last run. Not to mention losing 2 SBs that Brady gave the D a lead with time running out only to see them collapse for the loss.

I am not trying to stir the pot. I am, however, considering how dispassionately the pats look at players when it comes to value, contracts, and situations. It is my opinion that Brady has not done a great job developing receivers. There have been plenty that have come through the pats system that haven't become effective for the pats. Now, I'll mostly blame the receivers for this, but I do believe that once Brady finds valuable targets and synergy with those targets, he forgets the others - at least that seems to be the case for the last half dozen years.

As of today - there isn't a single one of those targets that is anticipated to start the season. No Gronkowski, no Hernandez, no Welker, no Branch. Further - another one year project, Lloyd is also gone.

When Brady was more game manager and not the focal point (when the pats were winning superbowls) they had a very effective running game and a legendary defense that never let an opponent's offense take over a game. Do they have either or those now?

If the answer is no, then the focus remains on the great Brady with tools with whom he has no long term relationship or synergy.

So again, given the way the pats dispassionately evaluate players, values, and situations, a Brady move is worth consideration. Brady just restructured his contract in a way that nearly any team in the NFL would give away the house for.

Okay, what Pat's recievers that TB didn't "develop" went to other teams and were "developed" by those teams and their QB's.

Perhaps the recievers they gave him to "develop" weren't capable of being "developed"?

As I noted, I put most of the issue on the receivers that didn't develop, but I do believe Brady locks in to those that work and that inhibits the progress of others. I accept that I could be wrong, but I stand by my opinion. Further, receivers that are relegated to teams with significantly lesser QB's will never get that development. Look how effective Larry Fitzgerald was this year. Brady has the capability to take receivers to a higher level where most other QB's do not. I am not sure he has.

All I asked for was the recievers that he failed to "develop" that were successful elsewhere. That would prove your theory.

So are you saying that if Brady had a comprable reciever like Larry Fitzgerald... let's say like Randy Moss that Brady would be unable to to take him to a higher level?

I disagree with your assumption based on your sole criteria, and I did say that I put most on the receivers for their own lack of development, but as I noted there are also other factors involved such as to what teams they went and who their QB's were and whether or not the team was stable. If you wish to place this issue on the team making drafting mistakes, there's that too, but somehow Brady's got to bear some responsibility for not being able to find value in these players.

And no about Fitzgerald, the comment was in support of my point that when good receivers are put in poor situations then they can't/won't produce. They can't throw the ball to themselves. Where ineffective QB's diminish a WR's talent, a great QB like Brady can allow it to flourish, AND he can turn marginal receivers into effective ones. But if a guy like Brady has already established who his targets will be, the rest of the receiving group is left to fail.

We are going to agree to disagree. My sole criteria was in response to your allegation that "brady has not done a great job developing recievers.

I asked for some examples of recievers he failed to "develop" that went to other teams and were "developed". This would give credence to your assertion. So your premise is just an opinion without any facts or anecdotal evidence to support it.

What is funny is somehow Brady got Brandon LLoyd 70 + catches and lloyd is not even on an NFL 90 man roster. Seems to me he does what he can with what they give him.

Look Jri, unlike many here I don't assume that my opinions aren't arguable. That said, I made the statement based on my thoughts not yours. And yours don't discredit mine, so you can maintain your opinion based on your your criteria and I'll maintain mine.

Brandon Llloyd was another vet receiver, not one Brady needed to develop. But you bring up a good point. Why does management keep taking away receivers who appear to produce?

That's fine about your opinion. It is easy to throw sh*t against the wall to see if some sticks. Or you can give an opinion backed with some facts and anecdotal evidence that could possibly add validity to the opinion you are offering. I guess then you are going with the 1st option. as you gave zero factual based information or anecdotal information to support your "opinion".

Time for BB to retire. His trade down / out philosophy has ruined what could of been a historic run on Super Bowl victory with the greatest QB of all times leading the show. We have missed out on at least 4 more Super Bowls due to horrible decisions by BB.

why pay to keep Richard Seymour. Why pay for a Free Agent like Julius Peppers when we have Dink and Cunningham. Why pay for Marshall when you can get Lloyd on the cheap. None of this would bother me if we weren't constantly $10 million under the cap every year.

I suppose it makes sense for a guy who saw his team trade away a Peyton Manning to suggest that it's not such a bad strategy to trade the face of your franchise for a handful of magic beans. Of course, you have to remember that that guy's team thought nothing of taking the San Antonio Spurs approach and blatantly tanking an entire season for the opportunity to draft the next "once-in-a-lifetime guy," and early indications are that it was -- much as it was for the Spurs -- a good move.

All that said, I have a very hard time envisioning Darth Hoodie taking that approach.

Now you listen here! He's not the Messiah . . . he's a very naughty boy!

The only thing the Pats did for Tom Brady this offseason is too sign injury prone Danny A. in favor of the hardest working most dependable slot WR in the game. They did nothing to give Brady a legit deep threat. Now that Hernandez is headed to the can, Brady goes into this season with Donald Jones, Mike Jenkins, and Danny A. as his top WR threats!

Wasting the last few years of Tom's career AND the window to win the SB.

This is now a situation where the Pats start thinking about how much they could get for Brady in a trade ala Drew Bledsoe. Blow it up, start from scratch, and see what that 3rd round QB with 1st round talent (haven't we heard something similar recently-low draft high talent) can do.

Dont you wish. The Colts/PM break up still stings, huh? Imagine if PM and the Colts didnt kiss and make up to save some face at the end of that debacle. Such BS

The fact is the Pats have been shopping for WR talent off the scrap heap in the draft and FA, when they should have been ponying up for the best talent they could to surround the best QB in the game. This is a disgrace in my book.

Their failures on Draft Day have created a need to plug other holes with overpriced FA and to extend player favorable contracts to current team members with expriing deals.

Great post Z. Completely agree with your analysis and the fact the pats need to draft high on these skill positions. I never understood why bb didn't surround the most valuable player on the team with high caliber wr's? there was a point that the whole DL were 1st round picks. Seymour, Vince, warren. Why not give Brady a Calvin Johnson ever?

in the end, bb wins games, but part of me wonders what could have been if there was some serious talent and continuity at the WR position, more so than just welker who is now gone.

They weren't in a position to draft Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitz. Maybe they could have had D. Thomas, but he wasn't thought of like a Megatron was (that's why he lasted to 22).

Anyway, they pass for basically 5,000 yards or thereabouts year after year, and we talk about poor Brady as if it's him and three dorks from the Braintree High Math Club at WR. Receivers aren't what's cost this team titles in recent years.

I think the concern with Tom's mental health is somewhat misplaced. He'll be fine. My guess is he wants to win and get another diamond encrusted ring, and whether he passes for 100 yards a game or 350, is way down his list.

They had bug eyed Reche Caldwell and an aging Troy Brown starting in 2006 and came within a 4th quarter meltdown in Indy of winning a title. Their record setting team in '07 lost to a NYG team that started Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer.

Hey, you know what Megatron and Fitz and Thomas have in common? And while we're at it, I'll throw in Randy Moss, Julio Jones and AJ Green.

I fully agree with you. People often project thoughts and feelings about a situation upon a player, with absolutely no basis behind them. So they traded Welker. So his TE situation isn't as rosy. Brady is a living God in almost every square inch of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Maine, most parts of Rhode Island, 50% of Connecticut and at least four or five household in southern Vermont.

He has the respect of his peers. He has the respect of his teammates. He has the respect of the media. He's a sure fire Hall of Fame player with three Superbowl rings, more money than he'll ever need and a beautiful wife at home.

There isn't any reason for this guy to wake up every day, look in the mirror and think, "My, my, Thomas. You rule." How exactly could anyone wonder about his mental state?

They weren't in a position to draft Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitz. Maybe they could have had D. Thomas, but he wasn't thought of like a Megatron was (that's why he lasted to 22).

Anyway, they pass for basically 5,000 yards or thereabouts year after year, and we talk about poor Brady as if it's him and three dorks from the Braintree High Math Club at WR. Receivers aren't what's cost this team titles in recent years.

I think the concern with Tom's mental health is somewhat misplaced. He'll be fine. My guess is he wants to win and get another diamond encrusted ring, and whether he passes for 100 yards a game or 350, is way down his list.

They had bug eyed Reche Caldwell and an aging Troy Brown starting in 2006 and came within a 4th quarter meltdown in Indy of winning a title. Their record setting team in '07 lost to a NYG team that started Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer.

Hey, you know what Megatron and Fitz and Thomas have in common? And while we're at it, I'll throw in Randy Moss, Julio Jones and AJ Green.

No rings.

I never said anything about Tom's mental health or that they should have drafted any of those guys.

My point was about "developing young WRs."

Look, if it's BB's philosophy to use 1st round selections on combo-TEs like Graham, and second rounders on multi-purpose KR/WR prospects like Bethel Johnson .... that is fine.

If it's his philosophy to go an grab defenders (as in recent years) with first round selections that is fine too.

My point was, don't lay the revolving door at WR at Brady's feet. They've made do, and excelled, with an offense that has one first round selection on it, and he's an offensive lineman.

Lastly, the fact that none of those teams featured a defense that is near as good as what Troy Brown had backing him then plays a role ... as well as Gronkowksi, who has proven to be as injury prone as he was in college ... dropping off the map just in time for decisive games plays a role in NE not having trophies.

Great post Z. Completely agree with your analysis and the fact the pats need to draft high on these skill positions. I never understood why bb didn't surround the most valuable player on the team with high caliber wr's? there was a point that the whole DL were 1st round picks. Seymour, Vince, warren. Why not give Brady a Calvin Johnson ever?

in the end, bb wins games, but part of me wonders what could have been if there was some serious talent and continuity at the WR position, more so than just welker who is now gone.

I'm not advocating this strategy at all ...

In fact I've basically wanted NE to draft pass rushers for six or seven years running with their first rounder.

If I AM advocating something different it would be taking some spots (WR, DE/OLB) based on straight-up ability to catch and run or rush the passer and tackle as opposed to versatility, which BB is obsessed with.

They don't need to spend first rounders on WRs ... but if you are going to spend some 2nds .. make sure they are real good prospects and not KRs who can also, maybe, with some seasoning, turn into WRs.

And even then ... I'm not really steamed about it ... I'm just counterpointing that Brady doesn't "develop" WRs.

1.) It's not his job, that is what Chad O'Shea is paid to do.

2.) It's not like NE has given itself loads of chances with premium selections at WR.

3.) When they use them ... tehy hedge their bets and grab verstility/combo players, which lowers the chance at having one particular expertise for a higher chance they can contribute in some small way overall.

I never said anything about Tom's mental health or that they should have drafted any of those guys.

My point was about "developing young WRs."

Look, if it's BB's philosophy to use 1st round selections on combo-TEs like Graham, and second rounders on multi-purpose KR/WR prospects like Bethel Johnson .... that is fine.

If it's his philosophy to go an grab defenders (as in recent years) with first round selections that is fine too.

My point was, don't lay the revolving door at WR at Brady's feet. They've made do, and excelled, with an offense that has one first round selection on it, and he's an offensive lineman.

Lastly, the fact that none of those teams featured a defense that is near as good as what Troy Brown had backing him then plays a role ... as well as Gronkowksi, who has proven to be as injury prone as he was in college ... dropping off the map just in time for decisive games plays a role in NE not having trophies.

But that point is not what my post was about.

It was a simple re: developing WRs response.

[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, though I wasn't referring to your post specifically re Brady's mental state or my comments overall - they were directed at the thread in general.

Obviously it would be ideal if there were less of a revolving door and if some of the picks they made at WR could play, like Johnson, Jackson and Price.

But I wonder how much it would have mattered in the end? Would the offense have been that much better? Any better? I mean how much better could they be? Would they have won the '11 SB or beaten Baltimore last year?

I think it is clear they've come up short recently because of the things you mentioned, defensive shortcomings, untimely injuries and generally not being at their best in the biggest games.

There are a bunch of ways to win games in the NFL, but there seems to be only one thing that virtually every SB champ has in common: they got really hot and they got really fortunate. Baltimore makes the playoffs largely because Ray Rice almost impossibly converted a 4th and 29 vs. SD. They advanced because Denver's secondary collapsed at the worst possible moment. They weren't the best team in the league last year. The Giants were 32nd in rushing in 2011 and not much better than that defensively, they made the playoffs at 9-7. The Packers in 2010 made the playoffs at 10-6 because of a bad call in a game between Detroit and Tampa Bay.

Anyway, I'm way off point - but not feeling sorry for Brady and not all that worried about who's going to catch his passes this year. They'll figure it out.