Is something they have been wanting to get done all year, but is not just a simple fix.

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I call bull****...i dont believe there in a hurry to do **** about it you know why?Because it dont make EA any extra money for changing it...but i bet you theyll have something to sell on a uogametimescodes.com soon...so another words the PBD took a little over two years so we got another year to wait...

If they were really interested in doing something ASAP, there is a simple way to alleviate the RoT situation until they can work on the system itself. Why not just implement the blackrock gain areas? Risk vs. reward. Whether its a permanent addition to Siege or not, it's a perfect temporary solution.

I don't buy it. If they wanted to get ROT changed asap, it would be changed already. But I'd still rather them take their sweet time then to throw in some half-assed solution. Stop asking for blackrock gains. Stop asking for alacrity scrolls. If Siege gets either as a "temporary solution" it will only mean a longer delay in getting the real solution, which is a major ROT change, or it will mean we'll get no real solution at all. Blackrock gains and alacrity scrolls favor the vets/wealthy/PvPers far more than they do the new players that we are trying to attract. Nor are these things something new. We've had them on Siege before. People even posted on uhall that then was the perfect time to come to Siege with blackrock/alacrity scrolls (yea right..) and guess what? They didn't come.

We need a ROT change and we need it to be a major ROT change. Any other "solution" is no solution at all. Any other solution does not have even one tenth the potential a major ROT change does. Any other solution will end all hope for Siege for good. As I posted in uhall (though no doubt many of you would like this), if we do not get not only a ROT change but a major ROT change, you can count on at least one person (me) quitting permanently...since I know there will be no point in staying.

I don't buy it. If they wanted to get ROT changed asap, it would be changed already. But I'd still rather them take their sweet time then to throw in some half-assed solution. Stop asking for blackrock gains. Stop asking for alacrity scrolls. If Siege gets either as a "temporary solution" it will only mean a longer delay in getting the real solution, which is a major ROT change, or it will mean we'll get no real solution at all. Blackrock gains and alacrity scrolls favor the vets/wealthy/PvPers far more than they do the new players that we are trying to attract. Nor are these things something new. We've had them on Siege before. People even posted on uhall that then was the perfect time to come to Siege with blackrock/alacrity scrolls (yea right..) and guess what? They didn't come.

We need a ROT change and we need it to be a major ROT change. Any other "solution" is no solution at all. Any other solution does not have even one tenth the potential a major ROT change does. Any other solution will end all hope for Siege for good. As I posted in uhall (though no doubt many of you would like this), if we do not get not only a ROT change but a major ROT change, you can count on at least one person (me) quitting permanently...since I know there will be no point in staying.

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Masu you are flat out wrong. Blackrock is a good solution WITH or WITHOUT the RoT changes. Anything that will allow players to PLAY is a good addition to Siege.

Try thinking outside the box for a change. There is more than one way to skin a cat... The problem is that your brain only see's one way to do it and EVERY other method is wrong.

I never said there weren't multiple changes to consider. It's just a matter of which is best and which the devs would even consider. And after you narrow it down, you're left with a major ROT change on one side and everything else on the other side not even close to a major ROT change.

Blackrock gains and alacrity scrolls can't be considered solutions at all. They cater far more to Siege vets than the new players we are trying to attract. We've had them before and our population was not boosted significantly. Having them on Siege again will change nothing. Sure it'd be nice for us, but the primary reason for a change is to increase our population, and blackrock and alacrity scrolls will not do this, not significantly anyway, and definitely not anywhere near what a major ROT change would.

Considering what blackrock and alacrity scrolls will accomplish (little), is it then worth the dev time? No, not imo. If they spend time putting those back on Siege, even if it's not much time, that's time taken away from the real change. Most importantly, if they give us some crap change like blackrock gains, I doubt we'll see a ROT change for a long time if at all. Whatever change we get is what we're stuck with...for a long time, if not forever. So we can't afford to ask for the wrong thing. Which also means even with a ROT change we can't afford for it to be the wrong ROT change...it has to be a big change to ROT, not a small one.

There are of course many ways to change skill training. I never said there wasn't. Again, it's just about what's best. Imo there are solutions that would make skill training on Siege and UO in general far better and far more fun. Better than a simple change in caps and timers to ROT. Of course, I don't see the devs spending the required time on a whole new training system. If a cap and timer change takes them this long, the better skill system revamps they would never complete.

In the end we're left with a major change to ROT being the best solution. Nothing else comes close. Blackrock will not give us the population we need. It would be a waste of time. Imo you asking for it instead of focusing on asking for what we deserve and what we need, which is a major change to ROT, does not help Siege. Nor do I think asking for a small tweak to ROT helps Siege. We need to focus on asking for one change to skill training on Siege, and it needs to be the right one. Right now we have people asking for a major ROT change, asking for a minor ROT change, asking for ROT to be removed, asking for things to remain as they are, asking for blackrock gains, asking for alacrity scrolls, asking for power hour, and more. This will accomplish nothing. And if the devs pick the wrong change, Siege is screwed. So stop asking for these other crappy changes and demand a major change to ROT and a major change to ROT only.

I never said there weren't multiple changes to consider. It's just a matter of which is best and which the devs would even consider. And after you narrow it down, you're left with a major ROT change on one side and everything else on the other side not even close to a major ROT change.

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After the most recent announcement, it is no longer about what is best. With the current influx of new players, we need something that can happen now. That something, is blackrock gain areas. We would still expect that the dev team will work toward implementing changes to RoT regardless of whether blackrock gain areas are added or not.

Blackrock gains and alacrity scrolls can't be considered solutions at all. They cater far more to Siege vets than the new players we are trying to attract. We've had them before and our population was not boosted significantly. Having them on Siege again will change nothing. Sure it'd be nice for us, but the primary reason for a change is to increase our population, and blackrock and alacrity scrolls will not do this, not significantly anyway, and definitely not anywhere near what a major ROT change would.

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Oh but they can be considered solutions to those of us who are willing to present our dev team with more options to help with skill gain while they work on the RoT system.

I also beg to differ with your opinion that our population was not significantly boosted during the blackrock event. TnT alone, picked up 5 or 6 new members during that time.. only 2 ended up leaving. I'm sure other guilds had similar experiences, as I still see folks around that were newbies working skill back then. Similar editions in a community of this size is very significant.

You have a bit of a point about the benefits that blackrock would have for vets, but the same would be true of major RoT changes.

Considering what blackrock and alacrity scrolls will accomplish (little), is it then worth the dev time? No, not imo. If they spend time putting those back on Siege, even if it's not much time, that's time taken away from the real change. Most importantly, if they give us some crap change like blackrock gains, I doubt we'll see a ROT change for a long time if at all. Whatever change we get is what we're stuck with...for a long time, if not forever. So we can't afford to ask for the wrong thing. Which also means even with a ROT change we can't afford for it to be the wrong ROT change...it has to be a big change to ROT, not a small one.

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The addition of blackrock gains would not be a small change.. not by a long shot. It would be of great benefit to new players just as it was in the past. It would also get people outside the guardzone and out of their houses. Where do you think these new players are training atm? In safety, thats where. If those players are willing to take the risk, there are great rewards to be had by venturing away from their safety net. They can meet the community as well. Not only PK's, but also those who are willing to help. I'm gonna type my final point in one final sentence so that hopefully you will see the bigger picture!

Blackrock skill gain areas have far more benefit to this community than simple skill gain.

Stratics VeteranAlumniStratics Legend

I can, to an extent, see what Masu is getting at. Any kind of 'temporary' fix allows the permanent fix to be put off, and put off, and put off. So while it would be nice short term, it would, long term, be a bad idea.

While I know you're itching to kill all the poor trainees trying to get gains at a blackrock spot, it wouldn't, in the long run, be good for the shard.

I can, to an extent, see what Masu is getting at. Any kind of 'temporary' fix allows the permanent fix to be put off, and put off, and put off. So while it would be nice short term, it would, long term, be a bad idea.

While I know you're itching to kill all the poor trainees trying to get gains at a blackrock spot, it wouldn't, in the long run, be good for the shard.

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none of us want a temp fix, but the problem is right now we got a ton of new players on our shard we dont want to lose. and that is right now! we need something to help them not get frustrated and quit cause of a damned bugged system

I can, to an extent, see what Masu is getting at. Any kind of 'temporary' fix allows the permanent fix to be put off, and put off, and put off. So while it would be nice short term, it would, long term, be a bad idea.

While I know you're itching to kill all the poor trainees trying to get gains at a blackrock spot, it wouldn't, in the long run, be good for the shard.

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According to what I read on UHall, thats exactly whats going to happen anyway. Apparently there were some changes to RoT that were put in when powerscrolls came out, but its bugged and they are not sure how to fix it. They haven't fixed it in what? Five years now? I suspect that no matter what their intentions are as far as RoT changes go, we're going to be waiting a while.

In the meantime, we have one of the biggest influx of players that I have seen since I've been here. I'd settle for blackrock gains if that will ease some of the skill gain problems until RoT can be fixed. Again, I believe the blackrock gain areas to be good for the shard on several different levels.

Stratics VeteranAlumniStratics Legend

we could ease the pain a little bit maybe by donating spring cleaning points to NEW for alacrity scrolls? I know they're not a lot of use with training melee skills, but you could get at least 3 gains at the 70 - 80 level, which could be 1.5 instead of .3.

Pointless I know, unless we can get enough scrolls for them to be worthwhile. It would totally screw up the market for people trying to sell them, but would it be worth it to keep our newcomers? If we all put into the pot? Even crafters and thieves can help, recipes and talismans from Heartwood are a hand in item.

Is it worth a shard wide, all guild effort to do what we can ourselves to help these new folk while we wait for a proper solution from EA? Who apparently have only just discovered the ineptitude of their predecessors?

Getting an alacrity you need from spring cleaning points is rather silly. almost 60 skills, atleast 10 are worthless (taste id alacrity anyone?), and you never get the one you need.

That aisde, you can use camping skill to use combat scrolls, though not as efficient as using an alacrity for something you can do in your house, more efficient then hoping you get 3 gains in the 15 min. timespan.

problem I see with blackrock gain areas is theyre gonna turn into a bigger pvp spot then luna and champ spawns.
That isn't exactly inviting to newcomers to the shard

“After the most recent announcement, it is no longer about what is best.”

It is still about what is best. Some people think any change is fine just as long as we get something. I completely disagree. Some changes *might* bring in a *few* people or keep a *few* people playing, but it won’t be enough. Siege’s population is ****. We need a big population boost. We need a big change to ROT. No other change comes close to the potential of a major ROT change.

“With the current influx of new players, we need something that can happen now.”

It’s better of course the devs change skill training on Siege sooner than later…but if it’s not the right change, it’s better to wait for later. We always get highs and lows in the amount of new players coming to Siege. If you think “the current influx of new players” is something worth talking about, you don’t realize how many more people we could get with a major change to ROT. That is where all our focus needs to be.

“We would still expect that the dev team will work toward implementing changes to RoT regardless of whether blackrock gain areas are added or not.”

First, do you know how long it will take them to add blackrock gains back on Siege? You assume not long, but we also assumed not long for a simple change to the ROT cap and timers. And even if adding blackrock gains back to Siege would not take long, it’s still time taken away that would be spent on a ROT change. Siege is given very limited attention and spending that on blackrock gains instead of focusing on a major ROT change is foolish. And as I already said, what scares me the most is that we’ll be stuck, at least for a long time if not forever, with whatever change we get. You expect the dev team to continue working towards ROT after we get blackrock gains back, but I doubt they will. And if they do, they won’t be putting as much attention towards it as they would if we didn’t get blackrock gains. Speculation yes, but I suspect I’m right. It is not something worth risking. I think we have one shot at this and that’s it. We get what change they give us, and we’re stuck with that change. So let’s not screw it up by asking for a billion different things. Focus all attention on the one change we really need. Again, whatever few people we keep or get from blackrock gains pales in comparison to the population boost we’ll get from a major change to ROT. It is NOT worth risking a further delay in changing ROT or never getting a ROT change at all. A major change to ROT, imo, is the last hope for Siege.

“I also beg to differ with your opinion that our population was not significantly boosted during the blackrock event.”

Then I guess it’s matter of what we consider significant. Blackrock gains, to me, did not boost our population significantly. And it won’t if we get it back. To repeat once again, what few people we do get or keep because of blackrock gains pales in comparison to the boost we’ll get from a major change to ROT. A major ROT change is our last hope for a healthy population on Siege without making huge sacrifices. We can’t afford to blow it.

”You have a bit of a point about the benefits that blackrock would have for vets, but the same would be true of major RoT changes.

The addition of blackrock gains would not be a small change.. not by a long shot. It would be of great benefit to new players just as it was in the past. It would also get people outside the guardzone and out of their houses. Where do you think these new players are training atm? In safety, thats where. If those players are willing to take the risk, there are great rewards to be had by venturing away from their safety net. They can meet the community as well. Not only PK's, but also those who are willing to help. I'm gonna type my final point in one final sentence so that hopefully you will see the bigger picture!

Blackrock skill gain areas have far more benefit to this community than simple skill gain.”

You missed my point. A major change to ROT will benefit all players equally. Blackrock gains favor people who already have trained chars and favor PvPers. They do not provide anywhere near the benefit to new players or non-PvPers. New players do not have the skills to fight off or evade PKs. I see nothing wrong with people being allowed to train in relative safety. Not every single thing has to be about risk. Yes, we want a lot of risk on Siege, but I don’t see why that has to include training.

Blackrock gains do not, on average, provide the gains per day a good change to ROT would. They do not decrease the timers at all. And they force new players in a PvP situation right from the start when they’re not ready at all. Blackrock gains will certainly not boost our population significantly as we already know since they did not when we had them before, and I very much doubt it would be the magic solution you think it would for keeping the new players we already have from leaving Siege.

Back to your whole, “risk versus reward” thing…I’m not a trammy, but this is the one thing I’ll agree on with the trammies in uhall. I’m tired of hearing this risk versus reward crap. Not everything has to be about risk versus reward. It’s the same thing I hear from people arguing for an item-based Siege. Risk versus reward. Item-based PvP is okay because people risk the arties as they can be looted. Bunch of bs. I’m tired of people justifying bad changes or keeping bad changes in the name of risk versus reward. Screw risk versus reward. Screw item-based PvP. And screw blackrock gains.

"ROT on Siege: They have been trying to change things all year so things would scale to 120 instead of 100. It's not that simple, will require more time. Mesanna is working on it. Need to make sure that changing one number in a formula won't change other things. It's definitely a bug that it isn't scaled to 120....it's broken, wasn't designed that way."

This has me concerned. What do they mean when they say "scaled to 120?" I hope this doesn't mean they're making the same mistake many Siegers are making in thinking we need to change ROT only because skills can reach 120 now instead of 100. I hope this doesn't mean they're thinking of a small change to ROT instead of the big one we need.

Getting an alacrity you need from spring cleaning points is rather silly. almost 60 skills, atleast 10 are worthless (taste id alacrity anyone?), and you never get the one you need.

That aisde, you can use camping skill to use combat scrolls, though not as efficient as using an alacrity for something you can do in your house, more efficient then hoping you get 3 gains in the 15 min. timespan.

problem I see with blackrock gain areas is theyre gonna turn into a bigger pvp spot then luna and champ spawns.
That isn't exactly inviting to newcomers to the shard

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Inviting newcomers to Siege...that what you want? Well...get on the prodution shard of your choice and recruit them! 90% of all uo players don't read ANY posts from ANY boards. They just want to play, they don't want to try to understand game mechanics or read posts they can't relate to. Go tell em where they live cuz they ain't coming here to listen.
Think they've read the "Myth Busters"? on Siege? Doubt it. I've only started to read these boards and I've been playing since '99. Know what else is painfully obvious? The same peeps are posting and reading the same stuff over and over. Another thing...when I started, one year almost to the day of playing (not macroing), I gm'd resist, achieving my 7x status. I thought RoT, even as it is now, made gaining skills too easy...press a key at a given interval...gain...not very exciting...hitting 7x after a year of hard work...that was satisfying. But I do understand today's 'immediate gratification' society. I say take away RoT for 6 months and see how glad you'll be to have it back.

Inviting newcomers to Siege...that what you want? Well...get on the prodution shard of your choice and recruit them! 90% of all uo players don't read ANY posts from ANY boards. They just want to play, they don't want to try to understand game mechanics or read posts they can't relate to. Go tell em where they live cuz they ain't coming here to listen.
Think they've read the "Myth Busters"? on Siege? Doubt it. I've only started to read these boards and I've been playing since '99. Know what else is painfully obvious? The same peeps are posting and reading the same stuff over and over. Another thing...when I started, one year almost to the day of playing (not macroing), I gm'd resist, achieving my 7x status. I thought RoT, even as it is now, made gaining skills too easy...press a key at a given interval...gain...not very exciting...hitting 7x after a year of hard work...that was satisfying. But I do understand today's 'immediate gratification' society. I say take away RoT for 6 months and see how glad you'll be to have it back.

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I agree with that entire statement except for the last sentence. Players shouldn't be forced to wait 6-9 months to complete a character to truly compete, when everyone else is done and complete.

This is not WoW. There are not other newbies/new characters to do "low level" things with. They don't exist here. Everyone is virtually done with their characters, so making a new one here, sucks.

People should honor the sanctity of NEW here. To those other new players that choose to not go with that buffer, they've no right to complain tho.

Fixing ROT is very much needed. Those that are going to leave due to Siege's general difficulty and lack of Trammel will do so regardless of skill training time, so that's a non-issue, worrying about "too many" trammies coming.

characters wouldn't be finished over night... but they also wouldn't be miserably dragged out for 6 months to finish

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I like the idea, but that seems to be a bit too fast. I was thinking closer to the timing that would allow someone to go from GM in a skill to 120 in a month. There would not be any limit on the number of skills you could train at the same time, but it would allow people to get get trained but not so fast that we start getting a bunch more kiddies invading the shard....la

Stratics Veteran

Is something they have been wanting to get done all year, but is not just a simple fix.

Click to expand...

I am sure the developers would want to make changes in RoT if RoT actually
does ruin the game for the players. I will assume that RoT is ruining the game
for some of the players and not for others. Hence, we have differences of opinions
about what needs to be done!

The developers need a method of awarding skill points to players as they play
the game.
No one here surely worries about those first 35.0 skill points gained with RoT
for each skill chosen? Let RoT stay the same as it is now except when a skill
reaches 35.0 points a bonus 0.1 point is awarded from a check (some formula
will determine success)
when the skill is used on a monster or on a different player.
There will be two types of skill check formulas.
1. Skill vs Skill check: example Hiding vs Detect Hidden. With Hiding > Detect Hidden
then the player with Detect Hidden will have a chance equal to:
(Hiding skill value minus Detect Hidden skill value) multiplied by constant for these
two skills which will be between < 1.0 to 0.1 >. This constant must be used
for scaling skill vs skill.
In this example, the Hiding player gets no chance for the bonus.
If Hiding skill value is less than Detect Hidden then the Hiding player gets the chance.
2. Skill check vs opponent which does not involve opposed skill of opponent.
If opponent dies by this skill, the chance of gaining is equal to
(100.0 minus skill value) multiplied by scaling constant
for this skill < 1.0 to 0.1>.

I simply want to tie gains to players activities.
Please note that version 2 aids players up to cap of 100.0 skill points and
version 1 aids players regardless of the cap to the skill points.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Interesting arguments all over. It pretty much it boils down to how much effort and time is required to build a character.

Sure I remember the days of spending hours every day grinding like a fiend until the wee hours of the morning, for like a year, making my character 7xgm back in 97-99. Woohoo! But I am.. old now. Powergaming is for kids.

I can reasonably log in for an hour every other day and maybe spend a few more hours on weekends or the odd evening playing the game. Any more just isn't possible for me anymore.

Inviting newcomers to Siege...that what you want? Well...get on the prodution shard of your choice and recruit them! 90% of all uo players don't read ANY posts from ANY boards. They just want to play, they don't want to try to understand game mechanics or read posts they can't relate to. Go tell em where they live cuz they ain't coming here to listen.
Think they've read the "Myth Busters"? on Siege? Doubt it. I've only started to read these boards and I've been playing since '99. Know what else is painfully obvious? The same peeps are posting and reading the same stuff over and over. Another thing...when I started, one year almost to the day of playing (not macroing), I gm'd resist, achieving my 7x status. I thought RoT, even as it is now, made gaining skills too easy...press a key at a given interval...gain...not very exciting...hitting 7x after a year of hard work...that was satisfying. But I do understand today's 'immediate gratification' society. I say take away RoT for 6 months and see how glad you'll be to have it back.

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It is posts and posters like these that I just don't understand.

First, I don't understand how you find long, boring, pointless skill training to be fun and "satisfying." But whatever...everyone is different right?

Most importantly though...what I don't understand is why you and those who agree with you oppose a ROT change. There is no reason to. There is a very obvious solution that those who agree with you always seem to ignore. IF you find long, boring, pointless skill training to be fun and satisfying, that does not mean you need to oppose a major ROT change. No one forces you to get as many gains as you can and as often as you can. You can put artificial caps on your own skill gains so that it takes YOU longer to train, which is what you want. So why don't you do just that? Put artificial caps on your own skill training. Do not let Siege suffer by standing in the way of a major ROT change because you prefer long, boring, pointless training...especially not when there is a solution for you.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

But in my eyes it would be more fun for me if RoT didn't kick in till I hit 80 skill. And then some sort of formula where I can gain somewhat quickly to GM. Then maybe significantly slower as I work my way to 110, 115, 120 etc.

Either way I have been playing a month now and I am at 70.1 in 3 skills locked, and in the mid 80's in 3 others. blah

Sure I know that next week I might be able to get to GM in one skill by just concentrating on that. Hopefully I will feel like its an accomplishment.. lol.

First, I don't understand how you find long, boring, pointless skill training to be fun and "satisfying." But whatever...everyone is different right?

Most importantly though...what I don't understand is why you and those who agree with you oppose a ROT change. There is no reason to. There is a very obvious solution that those who agree with you always seem to ignore. IF you find long, boring, pointless skill training to be fun and satisfying, that does not mean you need to oppose a major ROT change. No one forces you to get as many gains as you can and as often as you can. You can put artificial caps on your own skill gains so that it takes YOU longer to train, which is what you want. So why don't you do just that? Put artificial caps on your own skill training. Do not let Siege suffer by standing in the way of a major ROT change because you prefer long, boring, pointless training...especially not when there is a solution for you.

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You just like to rant son? I mean..."long, boring, pointless"..."oppose a RoT change"...never said anything about opposing...just that it can't get much easier than the guaranteed gains at specific intervals. What "major change" do you need? You think everybody that plays is impatient to be 'uber' as soon as they start a char? I mean, so it takes a little while to earn your stripes on Siege. As far as "standing in the way"...I read all the posts here and didn't see any pitch fork, torch carrying mobs storming the boards with their angry opposition to any kind of change to Rot.
And actually, just like rl, I like to earn my way. I don't want impossible but I like to feel I earned my gains by some degree of effort. Long, boring and pointless is most of the hours you're logged in game waiting for others to be on at the same time so you can have some fun. Last point, I never worried about gains...still haven't used all 720 yet...I just play for fun. It's pixels...it's entertainment...it's fun...most of the time. Just lighten up dude...you got all the 120's, yes? All stat maxxed? Arties? Millions in gold? I got almost 100k saved up, I'm having fun...sometimes I even make it safely to town with my day's earnings. Hey, try this...take a char on Siege, and one on a production shard, start with 0 lockpicking on both, see how long it takes to gm each. I really don't understand the whole complaint about RoT. Try earning .7 on three different skills on any other shard in a couple hours after the skill hits 90.

My mistake then if that's the case but your post sure made it seem like you oppose a ROT change whether you specifically said so or not. You defended "hard work" (which I think you are confusing with long, boring, and pointless) and said it was "satisfying." You went on to imply those of us who want change want "immediate gratification." This is much the same as what some people who oppose a ROT change say.

"just that it can't get much easier than the guaranteed gains at specific intervals"

We aren't asking for it to be easier. That implies it's hard, which it isn't as you stated. We're asking for it to be faster.

"You think everybody that plays is impatient to be 'uber' as soon as they start a char?'

3-4 weeks (assuming you get your max gains a day every day, which means longer than 3-4 weeks for almost everyone) is hardly "uber as soon as they start a char." Some people don't mind long and pointless training. But many and I'd say most do. Most of the people coming to Siege are indeed vets who have trained many characters and they feel no need to come to this "vet shard" and have to suffer through a completely ridiculous, unneeded amount of training. A major change to ROT will provide a major boost to our population, and hopefully in time enough for return it to a healthy or at least semi-healthy state. Also, I wouldn't necessarily call anyone who didn't want to be forced into long, boring, pointless training "impatient."

"I mean, so it takes a little while to earn your stripes on Siege."

A long while you mean. And the real challenge is after training. There is no reason for Siegers to have to train for even a third of the amount of time it takes today.

"As far as "standing in the way"...I read all the posts here and didn't see any pitch fork, torch carrying mobs storming the boards with their angry opposition to any kind of change to Rot."

True, and while it is good that more and more people have come around on this and now favor a ROT change, anyone who doesn't is still a problem. The devs might prefer listening to the majority (which I think is unfortunate) but anyone can potentially influence them, and that includes the people who still oppose change no matter how few they are. I call such people blind and they certainly are standing in the way, if only a little.

"And actually, just like rl, I like to earn my way. I don't want impossible but I like to feel I earned my gains by some degree of effort."

Then I'll repeat...put artificial gains on your own character instead of allowing those who disagree to suffer. I see no reason why those who hold this view have to oppose a ROT change.

"I really don't understand the whole complaint about RoT."

The complaint is it is completely unnecessary for training to take this long on Siege, Siege's population sucks, ROT can be changed without violating the spirit of Siege, and a major ROT change would provide a big population boost which we so desperately need.

I like the idea, but that seems to be a bit too fast. I was thinking closer to the timing that would allow someone to go from GM in a skill to 120 in a month. There would not be any limit on the number of skills you could train at the same time, but it would allow people to get get trained but not so fast that we start getting a bunch more kiddies invading the shard....la

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Do you really think anyone will have the funds to purchase and scroll out 120s in a month? I think the system I stated would atleast create a market for 115s. (Currently I just give those away or turn in for points)

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