Re: [ExGDBd] Re: Narth Seeking ..."Adult Children of Gay Parents"

I am not angry in the least. I am tired of your constant promotion of homosexuality. Do you EVER work to have the voices of those who have been silenced heard,

Message 1 of 9
, Oct 3, 2006

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I am not angry in the least. I am tired of your constant promotion of homosexuality. Do you EVER work to have the voices of those who have been silenced heard, if so I must of missed it...can you give me one example of where you have done such for everytime I see a post giving a forum to this side, you always feel dutybound to insert a hypothetical that supports the opposite side of what these groups are about. At every opportunity you interject a comment meant to present it in a fashion that lends itself to promoting it. Perhaps this triggers something in you that you are dealing with...I don't know. I DO know that people in this forum that used to be activists tell me that the comments you make seem mighty familiar to them....and they don't come here to hear more of that.

This is a place people come to find out about change, not about hearing how wonderful it is...they already know the reality of it and growing up in a household with 2 gay parents MAY have some nice things that could certainly happen to an individual, however it is certainly NOT something any rational person would ever want for their child if they cared about modeling normal, mature behaviour. Your comments attempt to support that behaviour at almost every juncture.

Most of us in here are exposed to gay people all the time...are they nice and caring people, in fact some of them have a deeper sense of feelings and compassion than your run of the mill folks.. a trait which I admire. However is this something we want to promote. Certainly NOT. This isn't a forum for being "sure" a set of voices is heard that has no trouble being heard Beth, it's one for voices that AREN'T heard. We already hear the other ones every time we turn on the radio, the TV, open a magazine, attend a class, and on and on in fact we can hardly escape hearing the "voices" you champion. One wonders how you have arrived at the idea that these voices you speak of "need to be heard", you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to hear the voices you constantly posit are in "need" of being heard. We want to hear the ones that haven't had the benefit of being heard....can you grasp that? It doesn't say "Pro Gay Discussion Board".

Your ability to produce "feelings" where none exist is enlightening. No where were any of these things you state with such moral authority said, yet you quicly equate these feelings when they don't exist, to bolster whatever point it is you are attempting to make, or better put to direct the discussion AWAY from the central issues. It's the hallmark of all the liberals I deal with daily. Failing to be able to support a position with rational thought they resort to name calling as you do here.

The "long legacy" thats continuing is one of a failure to reason and the making of irrational assumptions that you plainly make..there is no "anger and hatred spewing out" there was simply a statement that we are here to hear voices that have been silenced. The ones you speak of have the microphone jammed in front of them at every opportunity.

The "anti-social rhetoric" comment is likewise without any merit. This is merely a venue for people that want to change from the positions you always want to have heard and supported and yes, promoted. For when we strip away the veneer, the basis for your constant objections, that somehow these "voices" aren't being heard and we "need" to hear them is, on examination...well absurd is a good word.

When Laura posted the post your direct comment was..and I quote "Not to mention some people have a POSITIVE ATTITUDE towards being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be heard as well."....that is a comment SUPPORTING homosexuality from any point you wish to view it from. From your vantage point I imagine you think these poor folks can't get their story out (pro gay)....the reality of it is quite the opposite...it is virtually everywhere we turn. The opposite cannot be said.

The post said Narth was "looking for people who are having difficulty with the experience"........those are the voices they are asking to hear, there are jillions of places the other voices can be heard, they drown out everything....we don't need more of it here. If you "need" to hear those voices there are lots of places you can go to find them if that is what you "need". The group is for ex gays and those wishing to change and support them.

How else can one view your comments......??? You act as if these voices you speak of aren't (or) need to be heard?....By whom?....Have you not noticed they already are heard?...Let's give those without a voice a place to be heard WITHOUT the other voices that we can hardly escape from each day constatly promoting lies and half truths. I hear enough of it in the outside world..People don't come here to hear more of it being promoted.

Likewise calling my comments a "personal" attack is ridiculous, but expected..I get the same reactions when one dissects the thinking of people that put forth ideas that they cannot defend (such as these voices being suppressed and needing to be "heard" as you rush to their defense). Thinking people tire quickly of such semantics. The ONLY people who cannot hold a rational discourse on a topic are ones that, failing to be able to defend a position resort to name calling and claiming they (or their favorite minority/rights group) is being "attacked", personally or collectively. They do anything to draw the focus off of that which they actually say and the results which their thinking leads to with any reasoned thought.

Perhaps you can answer a couple of simple questions.

a.) What voices was Narth soliciting?
b.) These voices that you say "should be heard".....can you tell us where they AREN'T
being heard on the planet? (I know a alot of folks who might want to move there)
c.) Conversely, can you tell us where the voices of those that have been silenced for
so long are being heard in any meaningful way or forum?
d.) Who, in particular, "needs" to hear the voices you speak of (i.e. those that can't
hear them at present (or) have a need to hear them in addition to what they are
already being heard in every place one hears, listens or reads)?
e.) Since the tone of your comments indicates these folks must be having such an
extremely difficult time being "heard" can you give us an example of how this
is happening and who or what is preventing them from being "heard"?

I rather doubt any of the above will be answered. I (unfortunately) expect more of what you have already produced, words absent any concrete association to actual statements or facts, but plenty of labels and improper use of the language which is precisely one of the ways rational thought is being destroyed by those who use words and terms that have no basis to support them, they only serve to imflame passions and vent "feelings", and miss-direct the reader away from the issues...but never do anything to arrive at a conclusion based upon the use of reasoning.

John

Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@...> wrote:
Wow - that post sounds just like all the other things gays say about
us - that we are angry and agianst homosexuals and hate them.
Hmmm. Thanks for continuing that long legacy.

My hope is that we (all people - gays, ex-gays) can find a common
ground to begin to communicate without the anger and hatred spewing
out. Eventually, the barriers have to come down and it might as
well start today rather than tomorrow (where people usually want to
start things.)

Your comments were certainly indicative of the kind of anti-social
rhetoric that gays face. I am not promoting homosexuality.
However, if promoting communication is promoting homosexuality -
then you and I view life differently.

And the personal attacks on me can stop. You behavior is childish
and not cute to anyone except yourself. That kind of insulting tops
it with all the gays who cat call etc... I would expect more from
people in this forum.

(those promoting it)....unless you have been asleep for the last 25
years.. they are everywhere....from Oprah to .......you can't turn
on the TV or radio without being inundated with the politically
correct dogma.....

>
> The ones that haven't had it so "wonderful" don't have a

forum.....they need one...in fact there is an constant effort to
shut them up....

>
> While Narth is not biased they are providing a forum for those

that are NOT represented in the world..the ones you are promoting
have LOTS of venues to access. It seems everytime anyone posts about
something offering the dispossessed a chance to speak you jump in
and want to "equal time" promote the lifestyle.....and saying it's
just to be even handed is beyond comical.....the ones wanting to
promote homosexaulity have the world at their disposal while the
ones that want to share experiences in their lives that don't match
the politically correct dreamworld that is promoted to us at every
chance......DON'T have that luxury....it's time they had a voice and
WITHOUT the other side carping on and on about how wonderful it is.

>
> If you have a wonderful story to share with us on the advantages

of ssa please share it with us....but let the people that don't have
a voice speak up...without the benefit of the politically correct
dream merchant mumbo jumbo.

>
> Geez, one really wonders..............?????
>
> "Not to mention" most of us have heard enough of it...it's all

over the place..every place you turn promotes it.
Now..finally...here, is a chance for those without a voice to have a
chance to speak and you want to interject more of it.......if you
want to grab some pom poms and jump up and down on the sidelines
maybe this isn't the venue to practice those cheers. This certainly
isn't about being even handed...the issue is so utterly lopsided in
favor of promoting it it's absurd.......as are those comments.

>
> Please let these people speak.......WITHOUT a word out of the

other side.....in fact it might be good to tell them to SHUT UP.....
for a few moments and allow some others to be heard....THAT is what
being even handed would dictate...silencing their constant droning
so the other side can be heard.....for a change.

>
> John
>
>
>
> Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@...> wrote:
> Not to mention, some people have a positive attitude

towards being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be
heard as well. I'm sure NARTH would welcome those stories and
viewpoints.

>
> Adult Children of Gay Parents
>
> Narth is looking for people who are having difficulty with the
> experience. Not much has been said about people in your situation

and

> you have not had much of a voice. However, now we welcome your

stories

> and struggles. Please remember this is a public blog and your

comments

> are read by many people. Feel free to use a screen name for
> confidentiality purposes.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!

Small Business.

>
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Elizabeth Reese

You still sound angry and no matter what is said to you, you still see things in other people that YOU WANT to see - irregardless of them telling you

Message 2 of 9
, Oct 3, 2006

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You still sound angry and no matter what is said to you, you still
see things in other people that YOU WANT to see - irregardless of
them telling you differently. You have accussed me - wrongly.

You have overlooked entirely what I wrote. It is too bad that
people cannot work together.

John, this is the last of the matter I will discuss with you. You
are strangely fascinated with attacking me specifically.

I have and will continue to challenge the stereotypes that ex-gays
and christians are gay haters or anti-gay. I am not a gay hater or
homosexual hater or petitiion agaisnt anyone's (ANYONE'S) right to
pursue happiness and freedom so long as it does not tread on that of
another's. And some posts read that way to me. That I may be in
the minority bothers me none. Should a questioning homosexual come
to this forum, I hope that they read some of my posts so that they
may not feel attacked, persecuted etc... by such petitioning against
gays that goes on here.

As you know, you have been blocked from my personal e-mail as you
have sent long nasty mail to me. I am ending this thread and will
not respond to you on this subject anymore. I have attempted to
assauge your curiousity of my motives and if that is not enough then
nothing will do.

>
> I am not angry in the least. I am tired of your constant promotion

of homosexuality. Do you EVER work to have the voices of those who
have been silenced heard, if so I must of missed it...can you give
me one example of where you have done such for everytime I see a
post giving a forum to this side, you always feel dutybound to
insert a hypothetical that supports the opposite side of what these
groups are about. At every opportunity you interject a comment meant
to present it in a fashion that lends itself to promoting it.
Perhaps this triggers something in you that you are dealing with...I
don't know. I DO know that people in this forum that used to be
activists tell me that the comments you make seem mighty familiar to
them....and they don't come here to hear more of that.

>
> This is a place people come to find out about change, not about

hearing how wonderful it is...they already know the reality of it
and growing up in a household with 2 gay parents MAY have some nice
things that could certainly happen to an individual, however it is
certainly NOT something any rational person would ever want for
their child if they cared about modeling normal, mature behaviour.
Your comments attempt to support that behaviour at almost every
juncture.

>
> Most of us in here are exposed to gay people all the time...are

they nice and caring people, in fact some of them have a deeper
sense of feelings and compassion than your run of the mill folks.. a
trait which I admire. However is this something we want to promote.
Certainly NOT. This isn't a forum for being "sure" a set of voices
is heard that has no trouble being heard Beth, it's one for voices
that AREN'T heard. We already hear the other ones every time we turn
on the radio, the TV, open a magazine, attend a class, and on and on
in fact we can hardly escape hearing the "voices" you champion. One
wonders how you have arrived at the idea that these voices you speak
of "need to be heard", you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not
to hear the voices you constantly posit are in "need" of being
heard. We want to hear the ones that haven't had the benefit of
being heard....can you grasp that? It doesn't say "Pro Gay
Discussion Board".

>
> Your ability to produce "feelings" where none exist is

enlightening. No where were any of these things you state with such
moral authority said, yet you quicly equate these feelings when they
don't exist, to bolster whatever point it is you are attempting to
make, or better put to direct the discussion AWAY from the central
issues. It's the hallmark of all the liberals I deal with daily.
Failing to be able to support a position with rational thought they
resort to name calling as you do here.

>
> The "long legacy" thats continuing is one of a failure to reason

and the making of irrational assumptions that you plainly
make..there is no "anger and hatred spewing out" there was simply a
statement that we are here to hear voices that have been silenced.
The ones you speak of have the microphone jammed in front of them at
every opportunity.

>
> The "anti-social rhetoric" comment is likewise without any

merit. This is merely a venue for people that want to change from
the positions you always want to have heard and supported and yes,
promoted. For when we strip away the veneer, the basis for your
constant objections, that somehow these "voices" aren't being heard
and we "need" to hear them is, on examination...well absurd is a
good word.

>
> When Laura posted the post your direct comment was..and I

quote "Not to mention some people have a POSITIVE ATTITUDE towards
being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be heard as
well."....that is a comment SUPPORTING homosexuality from any point
you wish to view it from. From your vantage point I imagine you
think these poor folks can't get their story out (pro gay)....the
reality of it is quite the opposite...it is virtually everywhere we
turn. The opposite cannot be said.

>
> The post said Narth was "looking for people who are having

difficulty with the experience"........those are the voices they are
asking to hear, there are jillions of places the other voices can be
heard, they drown out everything....we don't need more of it here.
If you "need" to hear those voices there are lots of places you can
go to find them if that is what you "need". The group is for ex gays
and those wishing to change and support them.

>
> How else can one view your comments......??? You act as if these

voices you speak of aren't (or) need to be heard?....By
whom?....Have you not noticed they already are heard?...Let's give
those without a voice a place to be heard WITHOUT the other voices
that we can hardly escape from each day constatly promoting lies and
half truths. I hear enough of it in the outside world..People don't
come here to hear more of it being promoted.

>
> Likewise calling my comments a "personal" attack is ridiculous,

but expected..I get the same reactions when one dissects the
thinking of people that put forth ideas that they cannot defend
(such as these voices being suppressed and needing to be "heard" as
you rush to their defense). Thinking people tire quickly of such
semantics. The ONLY people who cannot hold a rational discourse on a
topic are ones that, failing to be able to defend a position resort
to name calling and claiming they (or their favorite minority/rights
group) is being "attacked", personally or collectively. They do
anything to draw the focus off of that which they actually say and
the results which their thinking leads to with any reasoned thought.

>
> Perhaps you can answer a couple of simple questions.
>
> a.) What voices was Narth soliciting?
> b.) These voices that you say "should be heard".....can you tell

us where they AREN'T

> being heard on the planet? (I know a alot of folks who

might want to move there)

> c.) Conversely, can you tell us where the voices of those that

have been silenced for

> so long are being heard in any meaningful way or forum?
> d.) Who, in particular, "needs" to hear the voices you speak of

(i.e. those that can't

> hear them at present (or) have a need to hear them in

addition to what they are

> already being heard in every place one hears, listens or

reads)?

> e.) Since the tone of your comments indicates these folks must

be having such an

> extremely difficult time being "heard" can you give us an

example of how this

> is happening and who or what is preventing them from

being "heard"?

>
> I rather doubt any of the above will be answered. I

(unfortunately) expect more of what you have already produced, words
absent any concrete association to actual statements or facts, but
plenty of labels and improper use of the language which is precisely
one of the ways rational thought is being destroyed by those who use
words and terms that have no basis to support them, they only serve
to imflame passions and vent "feelings", and miss-direct the reader
away from the issues...but never do anything to arrive at a
conclusion based upon the use of reasoning.

> us - that we are angry and agianst homosexuals and hate them.
> Hmmm. Thanks for continuing that long legacy.
>
> My hope is that we (all people - gays, ex-gays) can find a common
> ground to begin to communicate without the anger and hatred

spewing

> out. Eventually, the barriers have to come down and it might as
> well start today rather than tomorrow (where people usually want

to

> start things.)
>
> Your comments were certainly indicative of the kind of anti-social
> rhetoric that gays face. I am not promoting homosexuality.
> However, if promoting communication is promoting homosexuality -
> then you and I view life differently.
>
> And the personal attacks on me can stop. You behavior is childish
> and not cute to anyone except yourself. That kind of insulting

tops

> it with all the gays who cat call etc... I would expect more from
> people in this forum.
>
> -- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, John <tygrjohn02@>
> wrote:
> >
> > In case you haven't noticed.....they already have TONS of forums
> (those promoting it)....unless you have been asleep for the last

25

> years.. they are everywhere....from Oprah to .......you can't turn
> on the TV or radio without being inundated with the politically
> correct dogma.....
> >
> > The ones that haven't had it so "wonderful" don't have a
> forum.....they need one...in fact there is an constant effort to
> shut them up....
> >
> > While Narth is not biased they are providing a forum for those
> that are NOT represented in the world..the ones you are promoting
> have LOTS of venues to access. It seems everytime anyone posts

about

> something offering the dispossessed a chance to speak you jump in
> and want to "equal time" promote the lifestyle.....and saying it's
> just to be even handed is beyond comical.....the ones wanting to
> promote homosexaulity have the world at their disposal while the
> ones that want to share experiences in their lives that don't

match

> the politically correct dreamworld that is promoted to us at every
> chance......DON'T have that luxury....it's time they had a voice

and

> WITHOUT the other side carping on and on about how wonderful it is.
> >
> > If you have a wonderful story to share with us on the advantages
> of ssa please share it with us....but let the people that don't

have

> a voice speak up...without the benefit of the politically correct
> dream merchant mumbo jumbo.
> >
> > Geez, one really wonders..............?????
> >
> > "Not to mention" most of us have heard enough of it...it's all
> over the place..every place you turn promotes it.
> Now..finally...here, is a chance for those without a voice to have

a

> chance to speak and you want to interject more of it.......if you
> want to grab some pom poms and jump up and down on the sidelines
> maybe this isn't the venue to practice those cheers. This

certainly

> isn't about being even handed...the issue is so utterly lopsided

in

> favor of promoting it it's absurd.......as are those comments.
> >
> > Please let these people speak.......WITHOUT a word out of the
> other side.....in fact it might be good to tell them to SHUT

UP.....

> for a few moments and allow some others to be heard....THAT is

what

> being even handed would dictate...silencing their constant droning
> so the other side can be heard.....for a change.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > Elizabeth Reese <bethreese316@> wrote:
> > Not to mention, some people have a positive attitude
> towards being raised in a gay home. And those stories should be
> heard as well. I'm sure NARTH would welcome those stories and
> viewpoints.
> >
> > Laura <exgaydates@> wrote:
> http://www.narth.com/blogs/currentevents/
> >
> > Adult Children of Gay Parents
> >
> > Narth is looking for people who are having difficulty with the
> > experience. Not much has been said about people in your

situation

> and
> > you have not had much of a voice. However, now we welcome your
> stories
> > and struggles. Please remember this is a public blog and your
> comments
> > are read by many people. Feel free to use a screen name for
> > confidentiality purposes.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.