Given that UKIP do well…

I suspect it will be a perception thing; the public might start taking UKIP more seriously, giving the Conservatives a headache for next May. (Given that a ‘Yes’ Scottish Referendum result would totally disrupt everything next May anyway.

I’d rather have parties that are clearly distinguishable by the fundamental values they stand for than very similar parties all trying to attract you by headline policies that they can’t/don’t deliver.

Rhetoric isn’t going to do it, one or all of the other parties will have to respond with actual policies or win the argument re immigration policy, currently they are being total crushed.

I am really interested that controlled immigration is seen as a far right policy. there are many left wing countries which have border controls, work visas etc. I mean you cannot just go and live, work in China, you have to apply. You can’t buy residential property there at all.

Well I think it would be pretty certain that if they where in power there would be immigration controls and an exit from the EU. In a coalition its clear they would press very strongly for those things.

We don’t have this as parties are desperate for votes and they do this by trying to appeal to as wide a range of people as possible which they can do best from the centre.

There isn’t really a way to change this unless someone like UKIP come along with a compelling story to shift the publics point of view. They have been very sucessful in making imigration their hook as it plays on peoples fears and insecurities but the other parties are as much to blame as they have failed to oppose the view that imigration is bad with sensible rhetoric and viable policies.

There isn’t anything stopping a left wing party doing the same but they haven’t. Maybe because they haven’t found the single issue that people care about (or are scared of) enough, maybe beacuse socialism just isn’t popular in this country.

Well I think it would be pretty certain that if they where in power there would be immigration controls and an exit from the EU. In a coalition its clear they would press very strongly for those things.

I doubt the economy would last long enough for them to implement any policies.

That would rely on the party political system accommodating principled politicians who are able to stand for what they believe rather than what the opinion polls tell them they should stand for. IT’d also need principled politicians in the first place rather than the careerists that the current system breeds.

IMO immigration as an issue or policy has been forced into politics because it’s easy to campaign on

And it plays on peoples fears that Johnny Foreigner is going to take their job.

The main failing is that the main parties have spectaculalrly failed to oppose this view. Instead choosing to be “tough on imigration” in their own crappy way.

Take GDP growth as an issue. GDP has gone up but GDP per capita has dropped so the growth isn’t making people feel better off. For UKIP that is an easy message, imigration means you have a smaller share of the pie.

The oposite view is harder to get across but the facts are that without imigration you may have a biger share but the pie would be smaller.

well thanks for telling me how I’m gong to vote. I think you’ll find that Mr Toad’s performance will directly impact on the referendum – more right wing neo-nazi fruitcakes voted for in England might well result in a higher pro-independance vote given we would prefer not to have anything to do with your care in the community brand of politics.

I dont see it making any material difference. Yes there may be a change in rhetoric, but given UKIP’s record of not turning up at the EU parliament they wont have any impact there, and no seats at westminster means no impact there either

The main failing is that the main parties have spectaculalrly failed to oppose this view. Instead choosing to be “tough on imigration” in their own crappy way.

<tl;dr version- cocks, cocks everywhere>

We’re in the student business and tier 4 student immigrants pay the bills. The UKBA/now Home Office constantly make it harder and more expensive for students to get student visas- quota cuts, changing criteria, increasing wait times, etc. All because the government wants to “reduce immigration”, and students are the biggest single group of immigrants, and the easiest to dissuade.

Now that has 3 results. The first is, it costs us a fortune- international students are worth billions to the UK economy, it’s a financial disaster for the universities and the country in general. The second is, it cuts our world influence- because it means many less UK-taught graduates around the world. And the third, is that it temporarily cuts immigration, allowing the government to pander to people impressed by such things.

Wait, temporarily? Well yeah- because most students leave at the end of their visa term. So reducing the number of new visas reduces immigration today, but it also reduces emigration in the future. The net reduction in the migrant population is a fraction of the reduction in immigration.

Coincidentally, this means that they get to say “we’ve cut immigration” today and in 3 years they get to say “Look, the migrant population hasn’t gone down for some reason, we’ve got to cut immigration”

jekkyl – Member
I’m worried that the reason Ukip do well is because the majority of the British public are actually racist.

I dont think race comes into it as much as UKIPs detractors would like to think, a lot of people simply think the amount the UK pays into the EU is now too much and would like to see less involvement from the EU parliament in law making, a return to a common economic group if you like rather than a federal europe.
I dont consider that to be racist.

I dont think race comes into it as much as UKIPs detractors would like to think, a lot of people simply think the amount the UK pays into the EU is now too much and would like to see less involvement from the EU parliament in law making, a return to a common economic group if you like rather than a federal europe.
I dont consider that to be racist.

Do you consider the fact that UKIP candidates keep coming out with racist statements to be racist?

Maybe you feel that Nige and chums have been doing sterling work in reducing the EU budget?

I consider them to be completely racist while swimming in the gravy they claim to oppose. You can try and dress it up however you like, but they constantly reveal the reality that you so desperately try to ignore.

Do you consider the fact that UKIP candidates keep coming out with racist statements to be racist?

Maybe you feel that Nige and chums have been doing sterling work in reducing the EU budget?

I consider them to be completely racist while swimming in the gravy they claim to oppose. You can try and dress it up however you like, but they constantly reveal the reality that you so desperately try to ignore.

(yawn)…yes, no and maybe….i havent voted this time round, there isnt a party out there catering for my tastes at the moment.

I was merely highlighting the fact that screaming down UKIP as racist misses the reasons lots of people are voting for them….you clearly missed that.

What i want (and i suspect i’m not alone) is a fiscally conservative party that protects the NHS, protects state education, increases funding for the armed forces, protects the emergency services, reduces bureaucracy at council/local level, reduces tax in general, reels in the welfare state, reels in international aid, offers tax breaks for people willing to take care of themselves through private pensions, private health etc….none of the main parties seem to be able to deliver this so i’d rather not vote at the moment.

What i want (and i suspect i’m not alone) is a fiscally conservative party that protects the NHS, protects state education, increases funding for the armed forces, protects the emergency services, reduces bureaucracy at council/local level, reduces tax in general, reels in the welfare state, reels in international aid, offers tax breaks for people willing to take care of themselves through private pensions, private health etc….none of the main parties seem to be able to deliver this so i’d rather not vote at the moment.

Unfortunately, no you are not alone in falling for the rhetoric and myths no matter how many times reality tries to break through.