Main Straight Gay Discussion

I've noticed some lesbians/sapphic women listed in this page, which I find really confusing. I thought Straight Gay only applied to androsexual/romantic men, since it's supposed to be a counterpoint to Camp Gay, which also only applies to men. Or am I misunderstanding this trope?

MonaNaito

03:25:20 PM Oct 30th 2016edited by MonaNaito

This trope is a mess, it's just become a dumping ground for any gay character who doesn't fit an obvious stereotype. And since "being gay" isn't a trope, IMHO this page should be dragged into TRS and maybe cut altogether.

Does this trope even need to exist? It just boils down to "person who does not fit the stereotype of their demographic." Think about it, People Exist Who Aren't Stereotypes might as well be People Sit on Chairs.

WaterBlap

07:56:18 AM Jun 26th 2017

Audiences expect a gay character to act like the kind of gay person who goes to Pride (i.e. Camp Gay). This trope notes examples that break from that expectation. It is thus a tropeworthy subject when it happens in media.

There are other tropes, such as Action Girl, that are also "people who aren't stereotypes," so you'd have to argue how those are PSOC also.

Fortooate

08:57:55 PM Jul 27th 2017

Nonsense. 'Breaking a stereotype' is not a trope in and of itself.

This trope isn't even being described well. Why does the page quote insist that all other gay men are 'nancies'? Why does the page description consist mostly of people making thinly-veiled claims that effeminate gay men are bitchy and predatory? WHY does this trope assume that a gay person who acts as described is more 'straight'?

Frankly I want this page deleted but regardless of what I want, it's a mess that needs a rehaul.

This tropes is getting abused a lot. People want to convey that a character is gay in their character page, and are basically flipping a coin over whether they label them as camp or straight. I agree with the above commentator that "straight" is being used as a substitute for "normal", as in the character does average things that maybe play lightly with gender expectations or be a little stereotypical, but as long as they're not camp they get called "straight gay". Check a character page of a straight gay character, it'll list information about the character's love life but NOT give any explanation about how their personality/interests/appearance make this trope apply to them.

Solle

12:34:37 PM Mar 17th 2014

I would be 100% in favour of renaming this trope to Gay And Not Camp. Because there's nothing "straight" about gay people who aren't camp. Right now the trope is open to a whole lotta abuse because of its awkward name.

MagBas

05:19:19 PM Mar 17th 2014edited by 200.187.121.2

The Camp Gay is not the only gay stereotype that exists. One of the gay stereotypes, the Manly Gay, actually, is the exact opposite of the Camp Gay.

Nemothepandaelf

11:13:10 PM Jul 15th 2014

I've always been under the impression that "straight" in straight gay just meant a gay guy that would seem heterosexual to people if he wasn't with his boyfriend. I'm kind of a living example of this trope where people won't know I have a thing for other guys unless if I say something. Until then I'm presumed straight. It is pretty confusing though and kind of tilted to making straight the "normal" standard. It should be renamed something else like Solle's Gay And Not Camp, or maybe The Gay Next Door, something that can drive in the point that this trope describes gay men that don't hit *any* stereotypes, Camp Gay or Manly Gay.

Boxing champion Emile Griffith may count here; he's come out as at least bi. It does bear mentioning that welterweight challenger Benny Paret called Griffith a maricon (faggot) during a weigh-in. Griffith beat him to death in the ring.

I think it's quite debatable whether Stephen Fry and Peter Mandelson should be on this list. While neither are overly effeminate they still fall into the more subtle end of the camp spectrum. When Mandelson was outed I don't think anyone was too surprised.

"Most of his reputation probably stems from the time in the 80s where a male prostitution ring was operating out of his own house by Frank's then-lover, a male hooker named Steve Gobi. In Frank's defense, he said that he knew nothing of Gobi's activities. "

Obligatory Snark: Yeah, just like how he "knew nothing" of the disgusting financial activities of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac...despite one of his lovers being appointed to a pretty high position(An assistant CFO, IIRC) in Freddie Mac while he had direct oversight of both firms...

William Lee in the Naked Lunch movie is neither an Author Avatar (the movie was written by David Cronenberg, though based on the novel by William Burroughs in which "William Lee" is probably closer to a vague Self Insert) nor a Straight Gay. While his sexuality is actually somewhat ambiguous (he has sex with two women and one man in the movie) his reason for having sex with a man (and the context in which he delivers the quote cited in the entry) is that he is ostensibly using homosexuality as a "cover" for his "secret agent mission". It seems to me that he is, at most, bisexual (the novel, and indeed the real life man, are a different story).

I'm new here so I'm not sure if it's my place to delete the entry or not but it definitely doesn't fit.

I'm new here, so please don't bite my head off if this has been bought up before, but I find the title quite insulting. The opposite of camp isn't 'straight' (I actually object to that being the antonym of 'gay' as well, but that's a different matter)- the opposite of camp is more along the lines of 'ineffeminate', which I admit doesn't roll off the tongue, but is less likely to cause offense.

Gilgameshkun

01:03:42 AM Dec 7th 2010edited by Gilgameshkun

Well, from what I can tell "Straight Gay" is in reference to the unstereotypical majority of gay men who are "straight-acting" — that their behavior is indistinguishable from everyone else. I can see how it could potentially be insensitive to term it that way, since I couldn't straight-act for the life of me. I see how "straight" in such a case have be interpreted to mean "heteronormative", and thus have Unfortunate Implications. But it seems that "straight" can also simply mean "common; ordinary". Since the word is broad enough to run either extreme, it's possible that a rename could someday be truly necessary, but I don't know for now. If I had to think of an appropriate new name for this trope, it would be Inconspicuously Gay.

Anyway, non-straight-acting doesn't automatically mean effeminate either — Camp Gay tends to be effeminate, but Hard Gay tends to be very masculine, even macho (but still lights up Gaydar like a Christmas tree). But none of these are supposed to be 100% realistic — Straight Gay, Camp Gay and Hard Gay are more like stereotypical extremes. For instance, I'm somewhere inbetween this triangle of extremes, though I'm probably closest overall to Hard Gay.

ThrobertMcGee

09:23:44 PM Feb 8th 2011edited by ThrobertMcGee

Personally, I would've made an argument for the term "Stealth Gay," rather than "Straight Gay," to describe people whose homosexuality would seldom or never be suspected unless you actually witnessed them French-kissing a member of the same sex, or if they choose to mention "I'm gay".

Of course, there might be the problem that "stealth" would imply closetedness to some people, but some "Stealth Gays" are totally out of the closet. Hmmm, what about "Gaydar-Proof Gay" or "Gaydar-Invisible Gay"?

Gilgameshkun

09:29:24 PM Feb 8th 2011

Well, stealth also implies being covert. Not all straight-acting gay people are actually acting, and in fact pretty much none of them are — they're just being themselves, and just happen to be superficially indistinguishable from average straight people.

Cameoflage

06:09:32 PM Jul 24th 2013edited by 69.172.221.2

I heard some complaints about the name of this trope today — people pointing out the Unfortunate Implications of using "straight" to mean "doesn't act like a gay stereotype" — and I was going to add it to the Trope Repair Shop but found myself unable to do that because of the cap, so for now I'll just put my thoughts here.

In addition to the Unfortunate Implications (it's basically saying "straight = normal"), the name Straight Gay is an oxymoron when taken at face value (unless you interpret "straight" as meaning something like "plain" or "vanilla" rather than "heterosexual" — it's a valid alternate meaning but that seems like an unlikely interpretation when the next word is "gay"). This could confuse newcomers.

There seems to be a bit of a dispute over the page image. I don't have a particular problem with the current one, but I see the point that it's really ambiguous. I don't intend to just take it down without question, but to solve the issue of wanting a page image but not one that is potentially Just a Face and a Caption, like a Straight Gaycouple? The difficulty in getting across that they're Straight Gay is going to be present, but maybe a picture of Omar and one of his boyfriends from The Wire (like a screencap from this scene - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiW7foqBJLI), or Apollo and Midnighter from The Authority or something? What does everyone else think? (I know those aren't the best examples, but this is just me brainstorming.)

GamerAmI

05:41:43 PM Jun 13th 2010

I think the main issue of Just a Face and a Caption is that it assumes that everyone is familiar with the face being shown and won't need any explanation, while there is nothing about the picture to demonstrate the trope. In the case of this page, I think the lack of obvious stereotypically gay aspects of the guy in the current picture, as well as the fact that he is wearing a football uniform, makes the picture sufficient, especially considering that this trope is mostly visual in nature.

124.179.60.56

12:43:20 AM Jun 14th 2010

No, the current picture IS Just a Face and a Caption. Yes, he looks very non-stereotypically gay, but there's also no hint that he isStraight Gay. For all most people know, he's just some straight guy.

173.79.237.78

07:47:16 PM Jun 14th 2010

I agree with this. I think Smithers should be put back there, because everyone knows who Smithers is and how gay he is.

Duckay

11:48:03 PM Jun 14th 2010

Smithers is way better known than whoever this guy is (some guy from Degrassi is the best I can do), but I'm still not convinced that it's the ideal page image. (Mind you, I can't think of much better, either.) Anyone else got any ideas?

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