Anyways, it was recently brought to my attention from some SI members that I may have issues with external validation. Although I tried denying it at first, I have been thinking about it and think they are right.

Does anyone have any good books or anything else that I could read to learn more about this?

"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 1086 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts

Card♂ 23667Member # 23667

Posted: 2:58 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013

I like the book "His Needs, Her Needs" for understanding what our needs are and how to have them met in healthy ways.

It's impossible to have intimacy with our spouse without there being external 'validations', or as this books calls it, having our needs met.

IMO, 'external validation is no more than the need for 'Admiration". When met within the boundaries of a marriage it's wonderful, but outside healthy boundaries it's dangerous.

Admiration, or as Gary Chapman calls it, 'Words of Affirmation", in his book 'The Five Love Languages", can be uplifting.

Admiration is a valid need and it's my #1 need. Learning about it was great.

[This message edited by Card at 2:59 PM, October 5th (Saturday)]

WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

So at what point does one cross the line from "normal" external validation to unhealthy external validation?

"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 1086 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts

Darkness Falls♀ 27879Member # 27879

Posted: 6:52 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013

I would say the line is when you start depending upon that validation from others to feel good about yourself and your life.

Healthy validation, such as from family, friends or spouse = feels good, is nice to hear, but not necessary to be OK. Unhealthy validation = willing to get it at any cost, from any source (such as an AP or an abusive/toxic relationship) and necessary to function, emotionally.

JMO.

WS, 5-month EA/PA '09-'10

Divorced and remarried to XBH

Posts: 2791 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Central Florida

20WrongsVs1♀ 39000Member # 39000

Posted: 8:42 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013

At the risk of generalizing, I think as women we can get addicted to external validation in our youth, then freak out when we notice we're not getting it anymore. How often have I seen on SI, a BS saying his/her WS wanted to relive their 20s? When I was 20, or even 30, I could walk into a bar, a coffee shop...heck, down the street, and chances are I'd get at least an admiring look. Shallow, cheap...yeah, but being noticed or hit on does give one a momentary ego boost.

Then I woke up and I'm 40, I see a grey hair, a wrinkle, and the bag boy at the grocery store calls me "ma'am." Holy shit, I've become a minivan-driving soccer mom. So yes, I told myself I pursued As for external validation. I agree with JD, many affairs seem to be so motivated. But, similar to the oft-cited "why" of selfishness, I think external validation is a surface reason.

At the risk of generalizing, I think as women we can get addicted to external validation in our youth, then freak out when we notice we're not getting it anymore.

Self esteem. That is what it comes down to. I HATE any leering or cat calls I get from men. Hated it from my teenage years till now and it still happens. That is not positive behavior. Yet I know many women who have told me to stop complaining and accept such things as compliments because any attention is positive. Bullshit.

The only compliments I take seriously are from DH and my family and friends. They know me and love me for who I am. W

Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 383 | Registered: Aug 2012

Mrs Panda♀ 27303Member # 27303

Posted: 6:49 AM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

I HATE any leering or cat calls I get from men. Hated it from my teenage years till now and it still happens. That is not positive behavior. Yet I know many women who have told me to stop complaining and accept such things as compliments because any attention is positive.

This is not what I think of as external validation. I have been running since I was a teenager. Used to flip off every car or truck that honked at me. Told guys to "go fuck themselves."

But when it came to the specific attention of an attractive man or two who I knew already and who told me I was interesting and sexy and all the things I needed to hear.... I was like a hapless starving puppy.

It is my personal opinion that people who find their inner beauty and love themselves are much lower risk for cheating.

Don't get me wrong, I love myself a whole bunch. Did when I cheated too. But I focused always on the negative dialogue in my head. "I may be pretty but not as pretty as her. I smart, but they like the smart men better in this job. Etc etc. extremely self critical.

External validation is the superficial reason. The question is really why did you need that Alyssa? What is behind that need for attention and danger?

I don't know why I needed it, or where to begin to try to answer that.

I have never been one to really receive cat calls or leers from men. Maybe every once in a great while but definitely not as a regular occurrence. This was the case in high school and is the same now that I am an adult.

"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 1086 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts

20WrongsVs1♀ 39000Member # 39000

Posted: 9:07 AM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

It is my personal opinion that people who find their inner beauty and love themselves are much lower risk for cheating.

I don't know why I needed it, or where to begin to try to answer that.

It usually involves a close examination of your FOO (Family of Origin). When might you have started receiving messages that imprinted a negative self-image??

Posts: 11830 | Registered: Mar 2008

Mrs Panda♀ 27303Member # 27303

Posted: 10:42 AM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

Alyssa,

Tune in your inner voice. When you feel or act a certain way, ask yourself WHY.

Self-awareness.

Again, this is not about leers or catcalls. I dare say that most women, wayward or not, are disgusted by that sort of demeaning behavior.

This is about why we need approval from other humans. In my case, everyone could tell me I was amazing, but I would want the one person who didn't to agree. I needed the attention of the type of guys who had rejected me in my formative years.

External validation can range from dumb cat calling to having someone tell you all the things you WANT to hear (as a previous poster pointed out) to whatever hits your pleasure center. Why did it mean so much to you? Did your BH tell you or show you those things and it didn't mean anything? Why did your xAP make it sound or feel so nice? Why did it mean more coming from him?

Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 383 | Registered: Aug 2012

Alyssamd24♀ 39005Member # 39005

Posted: 12:46 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

My FOO may have something to do with it....My father is very quiet, and not at all emotional. Now that I think back I can't remember many times that he actually told me he loves me. My mother never said it that much either, but she was much more talkative and part of our lives...while in high school I didn't get very good grades and spent those four years disappointing my parents. Even when I went on to college and graduated with high honors, I really don't recall them saying they were very proud of me.

My father and oldest brother also had a lot of issues with one another.....although it didn't affect me directly I have many memories of both my parents screaming and fighting at my oldest brother, and also some physical altercations between my brother and father.

As for the questions regarding my XAP, he made me feel attractive and intelligent. In the beginning he would send me messages telling me how gorgeous I looked and that he couldn't stop thinking about me. He always knew exactly what to say to make me feel like a sexy, beautiful, desirable woman.

He also made me feel like I could do anything if I put my mind to it and really wanted it...going to grad school, getting a new career, etc.

If I had a problem he always was willing to listen and offer a solution, and genuinely seemed to care.

He also made me feel like I had "saved" him. He told me that I did things nobody had ever done for him before and it meant so much to him....

At the time I wasn't getting these things from my BH...to me it seemed like he just didn't care about what was happening in my life....he seemed to be more concerned with only his job. If I had a problem I feel like he never listened, or if he did he was just humoring me and didn't really care.

I also didn't feel like he really was in love with me or thought I was beautiful....that he only wanted to be physical with me if it led to sex, otherwise he had no interest.

Please keep in mind my thoughts regarding my xap were what I thought at the time....I realize now it was all BS.

"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 1086 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts

Trying33♀ 38815Member # 38815

Posted: 1:29 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

What does it feel/look like when one doesn't need external validation (EV)?

I always thought some sort of "acknowledgement" which has always been my word, for what I now recognise as EV, was healthy. It meant that I recognised I was good at something but people around me just didn't value or appreciate these things.

I have since realised that EV has probably been the thing that has spurred me on to succeed my whole life.

As my IC said, if I "performed" it would lead to EV and there was a payback to "falling into line".

Alyssa, I know what you're going through.

How will we know when we don't need EV anymore? What will b different? We won't be looking for acknowledgement externally anymore???

Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013

20WrongsVs1♀ 39000Member # 39000

Posted: 6:16 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

Maybe minor t/j but OMG Alyssa, buy a $3 book off Amazon called Psychopath Free. What your AP did, telling you you're beautiful and smart and you "saved him" is straight out of that book...I am reading it now and it's making me absolutely sick to my stomach. Not that you aren't beautiful and smart. But those weren't compliments, they were tactics.

Until I read this thread, I'd only ever considered that EV was about physical admiration. Duh. Clearly there are other kinds too, and I guess what one seeks in EV may be the trait about which one is most insecure.

Trying33 you raise good questions. I get EV from my clients, they love and value my work and write glowing reviews. To me that seems healthy and it motivates me to do my best work. But clearly the EV I sought during my As was toxic.

As for the questions regarding my XAP, he made me feel attractive and intelligent. In the beginning he would send me messages telling me how gorgeous I looked and that he couldn't stop thinking about me. He always knew exactly what to say to make me feel like a sexy, beautiful, desirable woman.

He also made me feel like I could do anything if I put my mind to it and really wanted it...going to grad school, getting a new career, etc. If I had a problem he always was willing to listen and offer a solution, and genuinely seemed to care.
He also made me feel like I had "saved" him. He told me that I did things nobody had ever done for him before and it meant so much to him....

20WrongsVs1

Psychopath Free. What your AP did, telling you you're beautiful and smart and you "saved him" is straight out of that book

to t/j the t/j further --
Even if the XAP was a psychopath or a predator, and my husband had one of those as well -- completely over the top -- IMO it doesn't really matter. That's putting a lot of power in the hands of the XAP.

Why were you taking personal messages from him in the first place? Why did you allow them and not shut him down? Your poor boundaries were in place before his compliments filtered in or he wouldn't have found a way 'in'.

It sounds like he played a victim and you were a KISA for him, you probably equally played a victim and he was sympathetic to you. Both benefiting from it all. One is not better or worse than the other.

It's good you are questioning all of this. Keep digging.

Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011

Alyssamd24♀ 39005Member # 39005

Posted: 7:12 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

Sorry, double posted

[This message edited by Alyssamd24 at 7:18 PM, October 6th (Sunday)]

"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 1086 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts

Alyssamd24♀ 39005Member # 39005

Posted: 7:12 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

Twenty,
I will definitely be buying that book, and am not at all surprised that the lines he used were in it.

What you said about "what one seeks most in EV may be the trait about which one is most insecure " hit me hard cuz it makes perfect sense.

I still don't know what that means for me though? A need to feel wanted, valued, and appreciated maybe? Or just a need to feel good about myself?

The interesting thing is I have never been one to put myself down...I have never had the inner dialogue where I tell myself I'm stupid, or anything like that.

I have always been neutral towards myself....I have never really put myself down, but have never really thought that highly of myself either...I am just....me.

"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 1086 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts

Alyssamd24♀ 39005Member # 39005

Posted: 7:13 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013

I'm sorry but what does KISA stand for? I haven't figured that one out yet!!!

"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"