No but a wolf and a dog are different species with the wolf being the common ancestor of all current dog breeds.

Bad example because that is NOT due to natural selection.

That is due to domestication. Very big difference. And depending on who you ask dogs are classified as Canis Familiaris or Canis Lupus Familiaris with
the Familiaris being a subspecies of the species Lupus.

Either way the genus is the same.

The wolf is not some kind of common ancestor.

edit on 3/12/2013 by kyviecaldges because: Because I made a stupid error. That is why we
edit.

Domestication is still a form of speciation. Ill admit that I was hasty in my reply and the example wasnt one of my best. The better example would
have been to include the fox which is a separate genus but still has a common ancestor with wolves which despite
Domestication is still the ancestor, albeit a very recent one, of all modern dog breeds

Seems like a troll thread, but here goes:
Evolution cannot exist, according to scientific facts.
Fact 1: The Earth is 4.5 billion years old.
Fact 2: The human genome has 6 billion dipole base pairs. (www.edinformatics.com...)
Fact 3: Life evolved on Earth beginning at .8 billion years after Earth began.

Given these facts, there are roughly 3.7 billion years to evolve a successful human being.
However, you need to evolve 6 billion dipole base pairs. You can easily see that there is not enough time.
Also, genetic mutations are repaired by the cells, defeating the process again. www.accessexcellence.org...

It takes too much imagination to believe in evolution...you just have to want to believe it because you want to, not because it's a reasonable
theory. Trouble is, science gets going down a particular path and tends to throw out findings that do not fit the model.

rickymouse
I believe in Evolution but not as it is taught. I believe something is steering it just like we have steered bacteria and other microbes to evolve
faster. Something evolved humans, it wasn't random evolution. Something steered us down the path we are going.

So then, I think that the two theories, evolution and creationism need to be combined.

Evolution happens but not in the way it is taught, ie Natural Selection is operative but it is not the driving force of evolution. Evolution is
obviously a result of mind but the consensus fights against this in favour of reductive abstraction. Rupert
Sheldrake posits the existence of fields as an attempt to resolve the Missing
heritability problem. Evolution as taught is largely an article of faith bolstered by copious helpings of propaganda and heavily biased
presentation of the facts.

Because science is meant to study the how not the why. Religion is for the why. Science isn't designed to answer the why, so there is no reason to
speak to it.

edit on 2-12-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

am I missing something here? because without the Why? we wouldn't have science...

I guess you are missing something if you find this hard to understand. Science doesn't explain the why no matter how much you want it to. It explains
how things happen. How is a studyable aspect, why isn't. Hence the reason the concept of God is unproven. Just because science cannot explain the why
doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it is just the wrong tool to do so. You don't use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail.

No but a wolf and a dog are different species with the wolf being the common ancestor of all current dog breeds.

Bad example because that is NOT due to natural selection.

That is due to domestication. Very big difference. And depending on who you ask dogs are classified as Canis Familiaris or Canis Lupus Familiaris with
the Familiaris being a subspecies of the species Lupus.

Either way the genus is the same.

The wolf is not some kind of common ancestor.

edit on 3/12/2013 by kyviecaldges because: Because I made a stupid error. That is why we
edit.

The gray wolf is 100% the common ancestor of dogs regardless of artificial selection. Natural selection may also have played a part.

Ah I see, so its similar if not the same as the Christian story of man being made from dirt? (man crawled up out of the mire). If so, why not include
Jesus in that list?

So ancient powers told ancient man that they were monkeys? for what reason?

Did ancient man reject claims of Gods in favor of evolution?

Its about standing with the gods and self perception. Not created in our image but created lower and represented as a monkey. Take the scribe houses
of the Maya at Copan and the Egyptians. In both cases considered the smartest and wisest men, well educated in the arts ect but represented in both
cases with the monkey icon.

This is the effect sought today with all this ape sh#t. The goal is to deny man of a proper perception of himself. To see himself as a highly evolved
ape. Its freekin hilarious.

Explain to me what is wrong with being an evolved ape (by the way, the term highly evolved is redundant when talking about any multi-celled organisms
they are all highly evolved)? Does the knowledge of this change how you go about your life? It doesn't change mine. It just describes where we came
from. Apes are some very interesting animals, not to mention we share many traits with them.

The chimpanzees, who ranged in age from 8 to 48 and had all lived at the facility for at least two years, were assessed on a scale consisting of
41 different behaviors, such as boldness, jealousy, friendliness and stinginess.

So whenever you feel something like jealousy, you are emoting an apelike trait. It's just part of who we are and there is nothing wrong with
understanding why that is the case.

Its about standing with the gods and self perception. Not created in our image but created lower and represented as a monkey. Take the scribe houses
of the Maya at Copan and the Egyptians. In both cases considered the smartest and wisest men, well educated in the arts ect but represented in both
cases with the monkey icon.

This is the effect sought today with all this ape sh#t. The goal is to deny man of a proper perception of himself. To see himself as a highly evolved
ape. Its freekin hilarious.

In both cases the monkey gods in question were just one god amongst many, in two religions amongst a great many. To cherry pick these two gods from
these two religions and then make make a contentious connection between them and evolution, reeks of desperation.

I know evolution has scary connotations for you, but you shouldn't fear the truth.

Its about standing with the gods and self perception. Not created in our image but created lower and represented as a monkey. Take the scribe houses
of the Maya at Copan and the Egyptians. In both cases considered the smartest and wisest men, well educated in the arts ect but represented in both
cases with the monkey icon.

This is the effect sought today with all this ape sh#t. The goal is to deny man of a proper perception of himself. To see himself as a highly evolved
ape. Its freekin hilarious.

In both cases the monkey gods in question were just one god amongst many, in two religions amongst a great many. To cherry pick these two gods from
these two religions and then make make a contentious connection between them and evolution, reeks of desperation.

I know evolution has scary connotations for you, but you shouldn't fear the truth.

No one is cheery picking. You don't have a background with the subject. There not religions their patronal icons.

Explain to me what is wrong with being an evolved ape (by the way, the term highly evolved is redundant when talking about any multi-celled organisms
they are all highly evolved)? Does the knowledge of this change how you go about your life? It doesn't change mine. It just describes where we came
from. Apes are some very interesting animals, not to mention we share many traits with them.

Its ultimately not about multi-celled complex organisms or shared traits. Its about mental and spiritual evolution. Convincing man he has more in
common with and owes some measure of acknowledgement to lower life forms of which he is only the pinnacle of. Man may eat bananas but apes cant make a
watch. This difference is not one of evolution but capacity and that not taken from our ancestor apes.

No but a wolf and a dog are different species with the wolf being the common ancestor of all current dog breeds.

Bad example because that is NOT due to natural selection.

That is due to domestication. Very big difference. And depending on who you ask dogs are classified as Canis Familiaris or Canis Lupus Familiaris with
the Familiaris being a subspecies of the species Lupus.

Either way the genus is the same.

The wolf is not some kind of common ancestor.

edit on 3/12/2013 by kyviecaldges because: Because I made a stupid error. That is why we
edit.

The gray wolf is 100% the common ancestor of dogs regardless of artificial selection. Natural selection may also have played a part.

The gray wolf and the dog is the exact same animal.
They can interbreed. Their genetics are the exact same.
What happened with dogs is no different than what Mendel proved with fruit flies.
Animals of the same genus can interbreed, and the ability to interbreed is what truly distinguishes species.

As I have said before, DNA is simply a template. If you were to sequence every single strand of DNA for (insert animal here) then you would simply
have a list of possibilities.
That list doesn't change over time.
DNA can only change, and thus the template of possibilities, through mutations.
Genetic drift is speculated to be the cause of certain traits supposedly disappearing, but what may be happening is simply a response to the
environment through epigenetics. This would then continually repress the expression of certain phenotypes.

The only thing that can create genetic variation is a mutation.

I actually have a question for you on this.

If natural selection is a process that causes helpful traits (those that increase the chance of survival and reproduction) to become more common in a
population and causes harmful traits to become more rare, then why the sudden explosion in breast cancer rates?
Individuals most certainly have a genetic predisposition to this.
Why has it blown up so suddenly?
Shouldn't it have disappeared by now due to genetic drift?

It is all speculation.

edit on 4/12/2013 by kyviecaldges because: Because I made a stupid error. That is why we edit.

Explain to me what is wrong with being an evolved ape (by the way, the term highly evolved is redundant when talking about any multi-celled organisms
they are all highly evolved)? Does the knowledge of this change how you go about your life? It doesn't change mine. It just describes where we came
from. Apes are some very interesting animals, not to mention we share many traits with them.

Its ultimately not about multi-celled complex organisms or shared traits. Its about mental and spiritual evolution. Convincing man he has more in
common with and owes some measure of acknowledgement to lower life forms of which he is only the pinnacle of. Man may eat bananas but apes cant make a
watch. This difference is not one of evolution but capacity and that not taken from our ancestor apes.

No it is just a difference in brain power and reasoning, a trait that our ape cousins don't share as much of. The folly of man is thinking that we
are somehow special in the universe because we can think and reason. That's pure arrogance plain and simple. All evidence points to humans being no
more spectacular than any other animal or thing in the universe. The planet isn't the center of the universe. It's not even the center of the galaxy
or even the solar system. The planet is a small inconsequential orb located in some random part of the galaxy, orbiting a middle of the road star. It
has at least 7 neighbors rotating around that star with it, most of which are bigger than our planet. We share this planet with countless other
species with a wide array of abilities and adaptations. While our superior intelligence may be unique (at least in regard to the reasoning aspect,
there are other animals that are intelligent too), as I demonstrated in my previous post we share many traits with apes. The only thing that suggests
that we are somehow special in this vast universe is us.

Even the God account that He created us in His image seems flawed. He apparently put us on one tiny planet that unless you knew where to look in the
universe, would never find (and even then would need some pretty advanced technology to find it). So this WHOLE universe is supposedly created for us?
Eh... I don't think humanity could ever even hope to explore all of the universe (if we could ever even leave this planet before destroying
ourselves) let alone be arrogant enough to claim that it was made for us.

Because science is meant to study the how not the why. Religion is for the why. Science isn't designed to answer the why, so there is no reason to
speak to it.

edit on 2-12-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

am I missing something here? because without the Why? we wouldn't have science...

I guess you are missing something if you find this hard to understand. Science doesn't explain the why no matter how much you want it to. It explains
how things happen. How is a studyable aspect, why isn't. Hence the reason the concept of God is unproven. Just because science cannot explain the why
doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it is just the wrong tool to do so. You don't use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail.

edit on 4-12-2013 by
Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

science doesn't explain how life began either, or how the universe came into existence... these questions seem to have been addressed before the dawn
of writing.

you should know it is part of my lifestyle to figure out the "how" and the "why" things happen on machinery... I am a technician. You posit as science
that everything is a machine correct?

I figure out the how and why things work or fail... it has been a part of my life 24 years (full time)

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