The Rockies' desire for a nip-and-tuck makeover tilting toward a roster shakeup is reflected in their aggressiveness in trade discussions with other teams. With the winter meetings approaching next week, the Rockies remain hopeful of finding common ground with Atlanta on infielder Martin Prado, while casting nets in all directions for starting pitching. In talks with the Angels,...

The Rockies also have no interest in including Tim Wheeler or Charlie Blackmon with Smith in a deal.

Then they can just move on from Prado. The Braves have no real need of another left-handed corner OF (Smith), so if the Rockies won't move Blackmon, who can play CF, then I don't see a fit with Atlanta.

I absolutely fail to see why Blackmon would not be included to get Prado. The outfield is the one place where the Rockies have a little extra talent on the current roster and within the system, so why not move one of those guys to fill an obvious void at 2B?

Not trading Fowler, I totally get, but not Blackmon. Or Wheeler, for that matter. If one huge year at AA is enough to get teams interested then see what he might bring in return.

Are we in for another winter of O'Dowd again massively overvaluing prospects when proven MLB talent is there to be had?

I do believe, despite what the Rockies are saying now, that they would include Dexter Fowler in a trade, just not in one for Martin Prado alone. If the Braves were willing to discuss a bigger deal, one that included one of their stellar relievers or some other plus-player in return, then yes, the Rockies would seriously consider dealing Fowler, who was very good in the second half of the season but is still considered an unknown quantity.

The Rockies will also consider either Charlie Blackmon or Tim Wheeler too, despite their denial. Blackmon is likely a no. 4 outfielder and Wheeler is not yet proven above Double-A, where he had a highly-productive season yet still has serious strike-zone defense challenges. Again, the Rockies don't want to give those players away for anything less than quality in return but they would trade one of them.

The Rockies believing they can get a multiple player return for Chris Iannetta sounds overly optimistic. He's not worthy of such a haul. If the team can get one solid but highly useful player for Iannetta, that would likely be the best they can do. The Angels have talent in their farm system and on their roster. The Rockies have to find the best one the Angels are willing to part with and be right on their decision.

Of course they shouldn't include dexter Fowler with Seth Smith for Prado. Not if Colorado is serious about contending next season. But Tim Wheeler or Charlie Blackmon, why not them? They're going to have a shot to become excellent MLB outfielders, in 2-3 years, but not this year, or next year. Blackmon may never be more than the next Seth Smith, in fact. Plus Colorado has outfield prospect Kyle Parker, who shoudl be all they need to go along with CarGo, Fowler and Eric Young Jr.

Why trade ian Stewart for a AA or AAA pitcher, when Colorado needs MLB pitchers and the Cubs are on the market for a left handed, strong defense playing 3rd baseman and have expressed interest in Ian Stewart? Earth to Rockies, Matt Garza, that's exactly what we need! Ian Stewart has more value than Colorado gives him credit for. He has the power and he flashes teh glove at a position where defense is important.

Although they are "nice guys", for the most part Ianetta and especially Stewart have been dead wood in the Rockies line-up. In retrospect the Rockies most likely regret not resigning either Yorvit Torrealba or Miguel Olivo, as both are both better hitters and catchers than the overpaid Chris Ianetta. Ian Stewart has been one of the biggest disappoinments in the entire organization and really needs to move on to another pasture.

OPS+ (league-adjusted OPS) for seasons played for the Rockies (100 being league-average):

A: 77B: 99C: 92

If you guessed that Iannetta is Player B, then congratulate yourself!

Depsite a terrible 2010 season, Iannetta is still far-and-away the better overall offensive player over both Torrealba and Olivo. Quite frankly, over their entire careers it's not even close, as Olivo and Torrealba both sport career OPS+ of 83.

mjay424 wrote:The Rockies believing they can get a multiple player return for Chris Iannetta sounds overly optimistic. He's not worthy of such a haul. If the team can get one solid but highly useful player for Iannetta, that would likely be the best they can do. The Angels have talent in their farm system and on their roster. The Rockies have to find the best one the Angels are willing to part with and be right on their decision.

At most (and I mean the VERY most) there are 10 everyday catchers in baseball who are better at the plate than Iannetta.

He also just posted a career-high (and very respectable) 30% caught-stealing in 2011. For reference, this season Torrealba was at 33% and Olivo 28%, and the average for all MLB catchers in 2011 was 28%.

So, he's significantly above-average at the plate and pretty much average behind it. Why is everyone in a hurry to be rid of this guy?!?

BobbyJohn wrote:OPS+ (league-adjusted OPS) for seasons played for the Rockies (100 being league-average):

A: 77B: 99C: 92

If you guessed that Iannetta is Player B, then congratulate yourself!

Depsite a terrible 2010 season, Iannetta is still far-and-away the better overall offensive player over both Torrealba and Olivo. Quite frankly, over their entire careers it's not even close, as Olivo and Torrealba both sport career OPS+ of 83.

Ianetta's OBP is skewed by the fact that he took a lot of walks. As for clutch hitting, Ianetta - as well as quite a few other Rockies players - leaves much to be desired. Walks are fine, but clutch hits are more important.

[quote="BobbyJohn"So, he's significantly above-average at the plate and pretty much average behind it. Why is everyone in a hurry to be rid of this guy?!?[/quote]

BobbyJohn,

I think part of the reason the Rockies want to trade him is to start shaking things up in the clubhouse. Let's face it....this team has become too warm and fuzzy with itself. Everyone talks about how much they love playing together and such. Don't get me wrong...chemistry is VERY important in any clubhouse or locker room. However, there appears to be no accountability going on within that clubhouse. I also think some of these guys believe and know how much the Rockies love them and as such probably don't feel too worried about getting traded. That kind of attitude can foster a feeling of entitlement and can lead to them not playing up to their potential, but still cashing really good paychecks. I realize that none of us has everyday access to what is goes on in there. But I think many of these guys are just getting way too comfortable where they are at. This is NOT to suggest that Ianetta alone is part of the problem. Personally, I think the Rocks should cut ties with our "Greatest 4th OF ever" (his words not mine) Spilly and let him get a job at some local comedy clubs.

I think one of the reasons the Rockies are looking at Hernandez is that he's older and more mature. If they think Rosario needs someone to mentor him and could provide a quality back-up for him, then why not ? Plus, if Rosario struggles, then you have a veteran guy you can plug in there everyday.

As for trading with the Braves to get Prado. If trading Wheeler and/or Blackmon is what it takes to close the deal, then GET IT DONE !!!!!!!!!!! I also don't understand what I feel is this obsession with trading Smith. He may not win Gold Gloves, but he's more than serviceable and he's got a much better bat than alot of guys we have on the bench (especially Giambi). I'm still in a very cautious wait and see mode when it comes to Fowler. Everyone talks about his 2nd half of last year. Yes...it was awesome, but guess what.....he did the same exact thing in 2010. We all saw how that worked out when the season began this year. However, I wouldn't be willing to trade him right now because I like his defense and while I don't personally think he's our leadoff hitter, I think he's shown he can drive in enough runs to be considered somewhere in the 7th hole.

I don't see the obsession with Fowler and the apparent hesitation to include him in a deal. Sure you want to make the right deal but Fowler is awful on the base paths, actually regressed last year in this area. He was shipped out last summer before being recalled and DID put together a nice end of season. He is a good glove in center but....if he has some trade value still or again and the Rockies have a need pull the trigger. Is Fowler viewed by this organization as a future building block or do they like him just because they "control" him for a few more years at a reasonable price? Given their history of over valuing their own players I'd go with the latter. We appear to have several players that are better suited to leading off who would be just fine playing center for years to come. I'd rather see Fowler packaged over Blackmon

warrengfunk7 wrote:Of course they shouldn't include dexter Fowler with Seth Smith for Prado. Not if Colorado is serious about contending next season. But Tim Wheeler or Charlie Blackmon, why not them? They're going to have a shot to become excellent MLB outfielders, in 2-3 years, but not this year, or next year. Blackmon may never be more than the next Seth Smith, in fact. Plus Colorado has outfield prospect Kyle Parker, who shoudl be all they need to go along with CarGo, Fowler and Eric Young Jr.

Why trade ian Stewart for a AA or AAA pitcher, when Colorado needs MLB pitchers and the Cubs are on the market for a left handed, strong defense playing 3rd baseman and have expressed interest in Ian Stewart? Earth to Rockies, Matt Garza, that's exactly what we need! Ian Stewart has more value than Colorado gives him credit for. He has the power and he flashes teh glove at a position where defense is important.

Seriously, Matt Garza? While we're at it, let's see if they'll take Denny Neagle off our hands as well. It would take more than Stewart & a couple average prospects to land Garza.

I'd part with Fowler or Smith in a heartbeat for Prado. His value is a bit lower after a disappointing season, which is a plus. He can field a lot of positions, steals bases, and is a pretty good hitter. He was near the top for batting average for the 2010 season. Make that deal. Get rid of Iannetta, please....

Smith needs to be traded, and that is actually a compliment toward him. He has actual performance value that can yield a decent return. The Rox have very limited trade pieces. See Wigginton, Ty. I don't see the problem with trading Wheeler in a Prado deal--there are enough question marks surrounding Wheeler that make him more expendable than Blackmon. Unfortunately, the club's love affair with power and the fact Wheeler was a first-round pick probably means the Rockies will hold on to him too long.

Smith is too good a hitter and too costly to have as a 4th outfielder given his rapidly-declining defensive skills, which is a huge liability at Coors Field.

I'm sort of on the fence with Fowler. He didn't just put together a nice second half last year - he looked like a completely different hitter than we had ever seen before. And yet, I know it could have been a mirage.

I just hope the Prado deal gets done, one way or another. I'm actually surprised the Braves are shopping him. He had a down year last year due to health issues, but until then he seemed to be on the rise.

BobbyJohn wrote:OPS+ (league-adjusted OPS) for seasons played for the Rockies (100 being league-average):

A: 77B: 99C: 92

If you guessed that Iannetta is Player B, then congratulate yourself!

Depsite a terrible 2010 season, Iannetta is still far-and-away the better overall offensive player over both Torrealba and Olivo. Quite frankly, over their entire careers it's not even close, as Olivo and Torrealba both sport career OPS+ of 83.

Ianetta's OBP is skewed by the fact that he took a lot of walks. As for clutch hitting, Ianetta - as well as quite a few other Rockies players - leaves much to be desired. Walks are fine, but clutch hits are more important.

Sometimes we get a couple of replays stuck in our heads based on a handful of games and we ignore the larger picture. Olivo and Torrealba are nowhere near the offensive players that Iannetta is. It simply is not close.

Acquiring Prado and Hernandez would improve the team immediately. Interesting given the history of the squad that we need offense in a bad way.

We have not consistently produced quality offensive players through the system in recent years. Too many guys are getting the call-up and struggling big time afterwards. What was supposed to be a core of strong offensive players has proven very weak: Stewart, Fowler, EY, Ianetta, Nelson.

Hopefully one of the young guys coming up will end our continually fruitless efforts to produce a quality big league catcher. Add Ianetta to the list that includes Petrick, Owens, etc.

BobbyJohn wrote:OPS+ (league-adjusted OPS) for seasons played for the Rockies (100 being league-average):

A: 77B: 99C: 92

If you guessed that Iannetta is Player B, then congratulate yourself!

Depsite a terrible 2010 season, Iannetta is still far-and-away the better overall offensive player over both Torrealba and Olivo. Quite frankly, over their entire careers it's not even close, as Olivo and Torrealba both sport career OPS+ of 83.

Ianetta's OBP is skewed by the fact that he took a lot of walks. As for clutch hitting, Ianetta - as well as quite a few other Rockies players - leaves much to be desired. Walks are fine, but clutch hits are more important.

Sometimes we get a couple of replays stuck in our heads based on a handful of games and we ignore the larger picture. Olivo and Torrealba are nowhere near the offensive players that Iannetta is. It simply is not close.

Bob, I totally agree with you, and even though I have no data to back this up, other than a gut feel during the games, I have more confidence with ianetta in clutch situations than with Tulo. He is a known commodity, and predictable. Why would we dump him for another player that is marginally worse....unless we get some other players out of it.

If Stewie gets another shot with the Rockies (and I have pulled for him, long time, bigtime) it will defy understanding. That train has left the station. Change-of-scenery guy if there ever was one.... but third base remains a giant question mark with or without him and that's not good. Apparently Prado is the hot ticket, but it still leaves one of the infield spots very much unanswered even if they get him, no? I think they should have kept Mark Ellis. He did plenty of good things.

Northsider wrote:I'm sort of on the fence with Fowler. He didn't just put together a nice second half last year - he looked like a completely different hitter than we had ever seen before. And yet, I know it could have been a mirage.

I agree - with Fowler the second half of the year, it's as if he'd actually had that light go on in his head, and he Figured It Out. Like you said, it could be a fleeting thing, but I think trading Fowler now, before we know if that's a permanent or a temporary change, would be foolhardy. Yeah, he needs some serious work on the basepaths, but he's an extremely good defender and if I were in the Rockies front office, I'd be hesitant to trade Fowler right now, too... much more hesitant that to trade Stewart, for instance, who has all the ability in the world, but has never taken the kind of step at the plate that we saw Fowler take last season.