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Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by Birdman

If this is such a problem, why are there still bees in the corn belt. I can drive west for a 800 miles and see nothing but corn . With hundreds of thousands pound of seed going in the ground every year for x amount of years. Why are there still bee's in these areas.

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

A deeply divided European Union will go ahead with a ban on the use of three neonicotinoid insecticides – clothianidin, imidacloprid and thiametoxam – blamed by critics for the decline in honey bee number.

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by mac

I don,t expect them to but to think ya can,t feed the world using organics is short sighted. We ain't doing a great job now.

Mac... have you ever really looked into what that would take... to feed the world using the Organic/Rodale method? I suspect one could feed upscale Miami..... but the world... ?? Forget everything else and just consider manpower/labor, we can not find labor enough to manage our highly mechanized agricultural methods now. We would have to import all of Central and South America just to apply the manure...

ďDonít tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.Ē - The Quran

Forget everything else and just consider manpower/labor, we can not find labor enough to manage our highly mechanized agricultural methods now. We would have to import all of Central and South America just to apply the manure...

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by mac

The thing is WE don’t have to feed the world countries have the ability to feed themselves using organic methods. Before the advent of the CORPORATE FARM there was a thing called the FAMILY FARM which did quite well at feeding the world.

I do not see how this can be done today, with a world wide population of 7 billion. Perhaps we would have a chance at a sustainable organic solution with a population of 1 billion? Solve the population problem and the pesticide problem could take care of itself.

ďDonít tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.Ē - The Quran

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by hpm08161947

I do not see how this can be done today, with a world wide population of 7 billion. Perhaps we would have a chance at a sustainable organic solution with a population of 1 billion? Solve the population problem and the pesticide problem could take care of itself.

Agree with the population but even at a billion the pesticide issue is about money not population. Before WWII very few farmers used chems.

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by mac

Agree with the population but even at a billion the pesticide issue is about money not population. Before WWII very few farmers used chems.

http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/corn...producing.html
A little perspective might be in order here. Per acre yields for corn (using the largest crop as an example) have risen from around 50 bushels per acre in 1950 to a current average of about 170 and continue to rise at 2 to 3 percent per year. Interestingly enough one thing that has been bred out of corn in the quest for yield is excessive pollen production. I am wondering if anyone posting on here has ever actually observed a honeybee gathering pollen on a field corn plant. I know I haven't and I have stood in many fields adjacent to our bee yards observing. Years ago a walk through a corn field in the summer released clouds of pollen in the air, such is no longer the case.

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by mac

The thing is WE donít have to feed the world countries have the ability to feed themselves using organic methods. Before the advent of the CORPORATE FARM there was a thing called the FAMILY FARM which did quite well at feeding the world.

If you want to know about farming, ask a farmer......

While we don't rowcrop, we do have cattle and sell a large quantity of hay. We own and operate a FAMILY FARM, but family farms are fading into extinction. If you want to take society back to the FAMILY FARM system, you're first going to have to petition the government to eliminate the "death tax." You are also going to have to instill "work ethic" back into society. When old Mr Farmer dies and young Mr Farmer has to sell the farm to pay the inheritance tax, you lose farm land at a staggering rate. How many of you people live in subdivisions where corn fields use to be? You'll also have to convince society to stop "moving to the suburbs." Suburbs use to be agriculture land.

We can talk about fairy tales all day, but facts are if chemicals were taken away from farmers today, the US would have to import 50% of it's food. Are you prepared to pay for that? Do you really understand what that would mean to society, the economy and to the sustainability of the US?

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by jimlyon

http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/corn...producing.html
A little perspective might be in order here. Per acre yields for corn (using the largest crop as an example) have risen from around 50 bushels per acre in 1950 to a current average of about 170 and continue to rise at 2 to 3 percent per year

Yep you can grow more using chems but it costís more depletes the soil, kills wildlife, pollutes water, and itís not sustainable. Most corn is used for animal feed and now fuel as for helping to feed the world ???

Originally Posted by jimlyon

[I am wondering if anyone posting on here has ever actually observed a honeybee gathering pollen on a field corn plant..

Re: Petition: Direct the EPA to ban the use of Neonicotinoid pesticides

Originally Posted by mac

Yep you can grow more using chems but it cost’s more depletes the soil, kills wildlife, pollutes water, and it’s not sustainable. Most corn is used for animal feed and now fuel as for helping to feed the world ??? Not me

Yes, it costs more and the additional costs are offset many times over in yield advantage, no surprise there. Sustainable? Well it continues to increase not decrease, I would guess that curve may flatten some then again it might not but I don't think anyone knows the answer to that including you. Yes your quite correct that most corn production is for animal feed and fuel. Certainly good arguments can be made against its use as ethanol, my guess is that budget cuts and economic reality will eventually remedy that situation but then that's a good topic for another forum. As far as livestock feed, well that is just filling a demand that humans have for meat. Should that be part of this discussion as well?

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney