Oh jeez! How to I deal w/this lying buyer before dispute is escalated?

Always on the huntThread Starter

Oh man. I can't believe this (well, actually, with false claims running rampant, I CAN). I received a message from the buyer of 2 of my items over a week after they received them. They claimed one of the items was broken. I mentioned to them that the clasp (which while loose, was still functioning), was not only described, but pictured in the auction. They claimed that they did not notice this (ha! Admitted it!) and still pressed that they didn't want it and that they wanted to send it back. Keep in mind that this was just for ONE of the items. I mentioned that I wasn't a retail store, and that while I was sorry they didn't fully read the description, I couldn't accept a return and suggested that they re-sell on eBay as it is a much wanted item. They replied in ALL CAPS that it was broken and that they didn't want it and they spent too much money. They then proceeded to file a claim with paypal (great) and leave me negative feedback saying the item was broken and that it was "probably fake"!! OMG I could STRANGLE this liar. I then noticed that they are claiming in paypal that not only is the item broken and not working, but that the OTHER item is also damaged!!! UGH. Right now it's just a dispute, but I have other invoices to pay with my paypal account. Should I give them a partial refund (of like, $1) to end it, or will that not help? I am so mad at the false fake claim I could cry.:cry: I am so tired of eBay. Advice is appreciated. (Though, I can already tell that paypal will probably side with they buyer who will probably get to keep the items AND get their money back. Free stuff on eBay! Woo-hoo. )

Member

^Oh i'm sorry to hear about this! the nerve of these scammers...!!! Where are they all coming from??? they are like fleas....You are right...they think everything on ebay is a freebie to them as long as they work hard enough to scam the seller...! Good luck and I'm sure many tPFers who have been through similar experiences will be able to help you out!

Member

If they claim it is broke then paypal will make them return it before they refund. If they claim it is fake, paypal will make them get it authenticated.

If they are stating that it is broken, then personally myself I would let them escalate to a claim. You did disclose it in your listing, and it is not your fault they didn't read. Save all the emails and send them to paypal.

Oh and as far as the feedback,that may be considered fb extortion I would report them. Also, even though a second neg won't look good it won't count against your percentage.

Don't let their bullying tactics get you down...you did nothing wrong.

Always on the huntThread Starter

No, they just claimed SNAD, not fake. The fake claim they just put in the feedback, to make me look bad. They know it's not fake. And I looked into the feedback extortion thing and this doesn't qualify. Actually they are now claiming BOTH items are broken, when originally they just mentioned that the first was. They keep changing their story in the dispute console and in the ebay messages to me. I hope the original one they sent admitting that they didn't see the part of the auction that states that the clasp was loose will help my case. Knowing paypal, it won't. They've had the items for over a week and they claim they will take pictures to prove both items are broken, but to me, that just says that they will do the damage themselves, since only 1 item was originally stated as broken. The other was not, but they have put in the dispute messages that BOTH are. I'm glad the feedback changes have not kicked in yet. They are going to be HORRIBLE for sellers. Buyers can even lie and claim items are fake when they don't get their way and there is NOTHING the seller can do. In this case, a buyer would DESERVE a negative for lying but it wouldn't matter. This sets up paypal/ebay for even more scammers. Chargebacks and extortion will be happening to almost all sellers. So sad. I hate to say it, but I think I'm done as a seller. As a buyer, I might be too. I don't think any sane person will stick around to sell on ebay after all of this.

Member

Member

No, they just claimed SNAD, not fake. The fake claim they just put in the feedback, to make me look bad. They know it's not fake. And I looked into the feedback extortion thing and this doesn't qualify. Actually they are now claiming BOTH items are broken, when originally they just mentioned that the first was. They keep changing their story in the dispute console and in the ebay messages to me. I hope the original one they sent admitting that they didn't see the part of the auction that states that the clasp was loose will help my case. Knowing paypal, it won't. They've had the items for over a week and they claim they will take pictures to prove both items are broken, but to me, that just says that they will do the damage themselves, since only 1 item was originally stated as broken. The other was not, but they have put in the dispute messages that BOTH are. I'm glad the feedback changes have not kicked in yet. They are going to be HORRIBLE for sellers. Buyers can even lie and claim items are fake when they don't get their way and there is NOTHING the seller can do. In this case, a buyer would DESERVE a negative for lying but it wouldn't matter. This sets up paypal/ebay for even more scammers. Chargebacks and extortion will be happening to almost all sellers. So sad. I hate to say it, but I think I'm done as a seller. As a buyer, I might be too. I don't think any sane person will stick around to sell on ebay after all of this.

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Don't lose heart, you may still be alright. I once sold a vintage bag so the bag wasn't in perfect condition. I detailed its condition in my description and had lots of close-up pics showing the wear and tear in my auction. After the buyer got it, she had buyer's remorse and complained about the wear and tear and said it's SNAD, so I stated clearly in my Paypal reply that these were already ALL described and pictured in my auction. Then she tried to say its fake, which I denied in my Paypal reply. At this point, I highlighted to Paypal how her story keeps changing etc and it's obvious it's buyer's remorse. The buyer then escalated the dispute, but I won the claim in the end because I had disclosed and pictured every single darn wear! The buyer can't claim it's SNAD.

I'm hoping that you'd been very detailed in your auction description and pictures, that would help you. I always make sure mine fully disclose all wear and tear with loads of pics to show the wear/tear. I'd rather not have a sale or sell for less than have to deal with genuine SNAD claims later (false claims like the one I had I can't prevent). Be clear and concise in your Paypal replies, and do mention the buyer's email. If you suspect she'd damaged the 2nd, I don't see any harm in saying so in your reply too. I'd also mention her neg feedback threats to Paypal. Good luck!

Always on the huntThread Starter

Thanks for your advice everyone. Yesterday morning, the buyer sent another message via paypal dispute saying I could "end all of this" (?) by refunding them. Ha Ha! I let them know that paypal already has my money, and they have left their slanderous, false feedback saying the item was completely broken, unusable and "fake", and at this point, I have no reason to comply with their outrageous demands. They have done their damage.

The claim was never escalated, it's still in dispute mode. Does anyone have any advice for me as far as whether to escalate it myself or just wait? I have 2 invoices that I need to pay for and my account is in the negative, so I guess I have no choice but to reimburse paypal for the amount of the dispute and wait to see if I get it back.

8.11.2012

er, seriously? what a crock. I wish I could help you out more other than the fact that you're doing great with keeping all of the emails, and don't forget to remind paypal that they keep changing their story.

Always on the huntThread Starter

^ Exactly. I didn't know whether to hinge my hopes on the fact that they may not have realized they didn't escalate it, and may let it lapse or whether they are trying to be a jerk by waiting until day 19 to escalate, therefore tying my account up for even longer.

LP4ME

ChloéClutchCollector

TBH, I would have just asked them to return the item and then refunded them.

Everyone makes mistakes, from time to time (theirs being not reading the description properly) and holding to your principles that you're not a store, so you don't refund, is simply not worth the hassle you're going through now, IMHO.

However, as you didn't do that and your money is now on hold, I think if I were you and I knew for sure that I had described the item thoroughly and 100% honestly, I'd be very tempted to make sure I had stated my case on Paypal very clearly* and had put all the info and correspondence on the dispute page and escalate it to a claim myself; in the hope that Paypal would see that it's an invalid dispute/claim (as they did in peppy's case).

* Which is, obviously, that:

1. You clearly mentioned the faulty/loose clasp in the description.

2. The buyer freely admitted, in her email, that she hadn't noticed that part of the description (include a copy of the email where she admits this); but still continued to demand a refund on that basis.

3. The item is, most certainly, not a fake and the buyer never told you that she thought it was; she just left you a negative feedback stating that it was (presumably, in an attempt to damage your reputation as a seller) and that you can prove it is authentic (if you can), with a store receipt (not that store receipts are concrete proof, these days, with all the fake ones flying about, but still).

4. That the other item was definitely not damaged, when it was dispatched and that the buyer never mentioned any damage to the second item to you and only claimed it was in the dispute, which was, obviously, filed after they had been refused a refund for the first item.

5. That they are now trying to use feedback extortion on the second item, in an attempt to obtain a refund for the first.