Crying Chinese Democracy

I stole Appetite For Destruction off of my Mom when I was 11. And apparently, I stole every single one of my dance moves from Axl Rose. As much as I wish I was Nikki Sixx, Axl is the #1 influence behind any action I would describe as ‘rocking.’ From rocking out in my bedroom, to rocking some ripped jeans, to rocking a slice of pizza. I’ve ventured onto sweaty, Budweiser-soaked arena floors to see Guns N’ Roses– an honor very few bands get from me- even after an attempt in Philadelphia ended in a riot that erupted around our center floor seats when word got around that Axl wasn’t coming. As was customary on that particular tour.

Since I was 14, I’ve been waiting for the new Guns N’ Roses album, and I’ve always known its name: Chinese Democracy. The phrase is now more universally defined as the new Guns N’ Roses album than as the actual political movement in China that inspired the titling. And over the years, the phrase has developed a second meaning: It can also be used as an adjective, to describe something eternally “in the works,” promised countless times, yet never, ever, ever delivered. As in, “that raise I need is fucking chinese democracy,” or “that big break your boyfriend’s shitty band swears is going to happen is totally chinese democracy, tell him to get a fucking job.”

I’ve been waiting, literally half of my entire life. In 2002, Axl unveiled a new band, and they played some shows- and some new songs. I thought it was coming. In 2003, a song leaked. A bunch more leaked in 2006. We could taste it. Word was that Axl was planning a Christmas ’06 release, and he confirmed that rumor by promising it’d be out before year’s end in a radio show interview. On December 14th, as time ran out to deliver on that promise, Axl announced the cancellation of the last few shows of a successful North American tour so he could (for real this time) finish the album, which he said would finally be released on March 6th, 2007. On February 22nd, road manager Del James announced that Chinese Democracy’s recording was complete- and that it was being mixed. But March 6th came and went. As 2008 rolled in, there was still no new Guns N’ Roses album. But then in April, the second biggest possible headline related to Chinese Democracy appeared on every music newswire in existence: The album has been finished and delivered by Axl to Geffen.

So what’s the hold-up? Well, Axl is negotiating with the label on how to release it.

Here’s what we know: Over the past 14 years, it’s cost the labels a whole holy shitload of cash. In March 2005, the figure was reported as $13 million by the New York Times– a figure not disputed by former manager Merck Mercuriadis when he attacked the piece and the journalist responsible. We also know that the album could very well be much larger than your average album, which could complicate the release strategy. In 2007 Sebastian Bach claimed that Chinese Democracy would be a three-album trilogy, with the third installment hitting in 2012. In a video interview more recently, Bach claimed it was actually “four records’ worth of material.” These details are unconfirmable, but in my travels in and out of the music industry I’ve encountered more than a few people that have been involved in the massive project at different stages, and I’ve heard from many of them that Axl had about 100 songs in the works. I’ve read that other sources have mentioned two (not so) short lists of songs, 20 a-list, and 40 b-list.

Part of the reason Axl split with Mercuriadis was that they seemed to be on opposite sides of one idea: JUST RELEASE THE FUCKING ALBUM. In the written statement announcing the March 6th, 2007 release date, Axl stated, “Both the band and I, along with our record company, feel that this record deserves the proper setup and promotion, not the… ‘it may just appear in your record store’ approach offered by management.” Axl claimed that this was just a ploy to help sell a tour to promoters, but it might not be a crazy idea. In an attempt to recoup some of their eight-figure investment after closing out Axl’s tab in 2004, Geffen put together a greatest hits compilation, with not a single new or previously unreleased track, or any promotional efforts by the band. It sold more than 1.8 million copies. It was the world’s ninth-highest selling album that year. But of course that album had one thing that Chinese Democracy probably won’t have: Welcome To The Jungle.

The bottom line is that the only way that Geffen will ever make that $13 million back is if the album is good. If it’s not, no marketing campaign possibly devisable on any plane of reality could generate that kind of money before word would get around that it wasn’t worth 15 bucks. Appetite For Destruction still sells 5,000 or 6,000 copies each week. Fuck first week sales- the first year that Chinese Democracy is out barely matters. When this much time, effort, and money has gone into it, the only way it’s going to return the investment is if it continues to sell and sell for years to come.

But another thing that I keep hearing from everyone involved is that it is good. Very good. While working at Universal, I encountered an exec who had heard a bunch of the songs. When I asked him flat out if it was any good, he solemnly lowered his eyes and tone, and said, “Seriously? It’s some of the best fucking music I’ve ever heard in my life.” And others echoed this sort of praise. In fact I haven’t even read a single report of anyone listening to the album properly by the grace of Axl, and not loving every minute of it. I caught the new band live here in Los Angeles on the 2006 tour with Sebastian Bach, and though I went in completely cynical and unenthusiastic, I was blown away by how awesome they were, how great the new band sounded, and I found myself wanting Chinese Democracy more than ever before.

So just release the fucking album. Go nuts on the packaging if you want Axl, but please don’t subject us to some drawn-out hype ramp-up to a release date months down the line. You already have our attention and we’ve been waiting long enough. Geffen, do yourself a favor, don’t waste another day or another million bucks on promotion this album just doesn’t need. When this album drops, everyone will hear about it. And the more you dick around with the details, the more likely the album is to leak on the internet, spoiling whatever big plans you’re cooking up anyway. And when it comes down to it, there’s been so much hype and so many broken promises, noone’s going to believe a billboard like the one above until the album is sitting in front of them on a shelf in a store or an iTunes shopping cart.

Kevin "Skwerl" Cogill was taught programming by his Mother's pot dealer at age ten. His career in music started with a New Jersey ticket scalping agency at fourteen, followed by graphic design gigs after graduating trade school in 1998. In 2003, he moved from Philadelphia to Los Angeles to escape warrants, only to be arrested by the FBI for leaking 'Chinese Democracy.'

Dude – G n R is lame. Axl is a head case, and he has single handedly removed every good musician that was Guns n Roses. He is just a sad, corn row wearin, plastic surgery getting, former great lead singer. Chinese Democracy – if and when it comes out – should not have cost $13M to make and taken over 14 years. Whatever Axl had is now just a distant memory, and is plain to hear on Sebastian Bach’s “Angel Down” CD where he sings a few songs. His voice is shot, and his whining is a lot worse.

I think all we can hope for is an original GNR reunion, they were a great band, shame money went to Axl’s head, perhaps if common sense entered instead of money then they’d be the biggest band on the planet.

Yeah. Despite all the “this can never make up the money spent making it” nonsense this album is going to sell way more than 13 million copies and that probably in the first five months. Axl may not realize how even people who haven’t thought about GNR in years are still going to be freaking out when they hear the CD is released. And they will hear about even if it just arrives one day in the stores without warning.

damn. chinese democracy has become a tired joke, but ill be getting it right away if it does come out. axl can have cheesy hair, a shot-to-hell voice, and a bunch of weird ass songs, but it will still be cool. and if not well, ive got a collection of shit i dont like i can add it to.

dude what the hell! that will be a hell of a lot better then the shit out today! and whats wrong with old jeans and 80s band tees. everyone has their own style and whos to say that you are so god damn hot. i will tell you that i think its better then to be different then look like a fucking prepie bitch! we will just have to see about the cd when it comes out so just relax!!!!

After nearly 15 years, who fucking cares? Axl rose is a bloated douche bag, with an ego the size of the late, great John Holmes’ cock! Axl is full of shit1 Geffen records is full of shit! The music industry and it’s archaic way of doing business is probably the most full of shit! Download the G’n’R tracks (why you’d waste the space on your hard drive is beyond me, but it’s your world, baby!), because that’s the only way you’re ever gonna get “Chinese Democracy”. It’s damn sure NEVER going to get a legitimate release! $13 million in production costs? Fuck you, Axl!

Guns and who ?
axle who ?
the only way g n r , will hit the mainstream, is if the kids are into it ,, and they are not , only us old farts that remember the good ole days , of hairbands , and heavy metal,, will take notice, and i’m sure, we are all just too old,, with our lives, families, careers to give a shit , about , has been hairbands from the 80’s that is why i seriously , doubt axl will be selling out the big stadiums ,, anytime soon,, see you at the house of blues tour, or maybe the Button south in Fort Lauderdale ,, remember that Dump,??????

First.- GnR do not exist anymore, the band without SLASH, DUFF & IZZY is not gonna be the same, it was a BAND not only AXL.
Second.- Theres a bunch of music released every fucking week, some good & the rest so Terrible so i dont think people is paying attention to this album for more than couple of days after released,couple of good songs & the rest just crap like every single album or any new artist this days.
Third.- i am GNR fan but i dont think a new GNR band is coming, i see more like AXL ROSE is coming alone using the old band Name to get people attention with new band members & not same voice (thats what i heard from the latest concerts with that Band called GNR) just AXL ROSE, well if something good comes with that “Band” & that album is welcome, hope not a “Use For Desillusion”.

All of u bitter fools out there pining for the days of the original group are outta luck…This will be a HUGE hit just on the merit of being an excellent group of songs. The kids will like it because kids love rebels and Axl’s the least conforming guy out there…he’s a sick perfectionist that held his album back 13 years because it wasn’t as good as he thought it could be. This is not Justin Timberlake or Usher putting content out every two years whether its good or not…this is an artist…kids will appreciate that…also, kids love GNR because they are STILL considered THE bad boys…so what if the originals aren’t there anymore, the band will be marketed the same way and what kids honestly look beyond the hype?…U folks, as I peruse your comments, know nothing about the music industry or for some of u, pop culture in general…the GNR mystique LIVES, while all of their contemporaries are reality show fodder…Its very unique in both areas to keep people interested for 13 years and people are STILL talking and disagreeing as we see in this very thread…

U dont have to like it, but at least listen first, don’t write it off because Slash isn’t playing on it…I love Slash, we all love Slash, but I’m not going to skip the new GNR album because hes no longer in the band…

Its really kind of reassuring that all of u haters, who decry the relevancy of Axl and GNR, still take time to rail against it…this is kind of a big thread for a “defunct” band, so I guess MANY others took the time to shout about the irrelevance of Axl and this album…in fact, it is SO irrelevant, people can’t stop talking about it…

I feel your pain, but why be so bitter? Sure we could have had 13 years of GNR music if the band had not broken up, but I’m happy to get something from them again…I’m sure not getting any new Led Zep music, am I? Be happy you have another GREAT album to listen to…

Wow Dean, was it hard pulling Axl’s dick out of your mouth long enough to write this horrid response to peoples very legitimate concerns?

Lets take a look at a few key things that Dean touched on but missed the mark horribly with:

1. According to our resident music expert Dean, we shouldn’t write it off because Slash isn’t playing on it… ok, we wont. How about instead we write it off because SLASH, IZZY AND DUFF are gone. THATS THE MAJORITY OF THE BAND. Sadly, despite what Dean our very own Axl Rose knob gobbler thinks… Axl was not the only member of GNR.

2. Aparently 24 replies to a blog on the internet is BIG to Dean. Hell, the reason I checked out this GNR related post was because yes… I am a fan of the REAL GNR and am quite curious as to how big of a 13 year old turd Mr. Rose is going to unleash upon the unsuspecting public. GNR aren’t defunct… Axl is just washed up, old, fat and with vocal chords that sound like someone is taking a cheese grater to a cat.
That’s the reason people are responding to this, not because GNR is secretly all of our favorite band in the whole wide world… but because there is a genuine curiosity as to what this album is going to sound like. I personally will eat my hat if this cd is as good as you say it is.

3. Also, Dean (Axl’s personal penis bodyguard) personally attacked people over their stances on the chance of C.D. being any good. Axl’s cock jockey is biased beyond comprehension and doesn’t deserve to comment about peoples beliefs and their musical views. Dean, you have truly committed an EPIC FAIL for making such personal attacks on a group of people who were merely making a public statement about a publicly talked about band.

So Dean, I implore you to use your internet fists of mediocrity somewhere else…. or even perhaps on someone else…. like Axl because we all know your true feelings….

I saw what was left of GNR in 2006 and thought without Slash, Duff, and Izzy..And even Steve, that it wouldn’t be anything compared to 20 yrs ago. I was sooo wrong. The corn rows look horrible, but Axl was AMAZING. His voice, his presence. Everything. Anyway, If he doesn’t make a decision soon, people are going to stop caring. I have waited far too long for this album. Almost to the point that I don’t care anymore.

right this is to everyone on here saying they aren’t interested and that they don’t care about this album. You ARE cos you are on this blog commenting about it….we can’t say if it’s gonna be crap or great untill we get a cd version or a real online release because stuff leaked online varries so much in quality that you are bound to say it’s shitte plus alot of it is fake. As for axel’s voice being shot, i’m not sure he can hit the same notes for the same lengh of time like he used too but he is still damn good!!!! I will be buying “Chinese Democracy” IF it is released and so will several million others due to the fact we all wanna know what it really sounds like.

This is the most overrated load of nonsense I have ever heard! What a fucking waste of a life to give someone like this such priority in your life for HALF of your fucking existence, such prominence at that! Go help the fucking poor, do something for someone on earth before you die of old age, instead of slavishly drooling over a bunch of coked-up oversexed fuckheaded half-arsed musicians! The God that you find it so voguish and necessary to reject will judge you better for getting your head out of your tiny little ass and into the daylight. And one thing is guaranteed: Axl Rose will sure as shit not give a fiddler’s fuck about all of you combined in return for all your slavish adultion of him! If you collectively stood between him and a joint or a hooker, he’d blow you away without a moment’s thought! Fuckin’ THINK about it! Rock on, losers!

Axl might have an large ego and be crazy and as much as I love the original line up, I don’t think they are forward thinking enough. Has any former GnR member made any good albums since leaving? Nope! It’s all dated arena rock. So while I love those guys, I only need to see them all together again to play Appetite live.

GnR will never match the greatness of Appetite, so Axl is wise trying to do something else.

I think if they did a really political album slamming the war and the politicians and america and say England or whatever and did a kind of rage agains tthe machine vibe axl could boost his way into something, but more of the same will appeal to the aging base, but who knows, sly stallone did rocky after how long?

um u bitches that think only old farts listen to gnr can go fuck yourselves.
me and plenty of my friends love gnr, and we did since middle school sum of us. and neither of my parents even listened to gnr, i found them on my own. and even preppy girls at ritzy private schools kno about gnr and chinese democracy. everyone will buy it. because axl is a brilliant musician. and just because hes not with slash, duff and izzy doesnt mean hes suddenly horrible. he was great when he started and he’ll always be great. just like the others. hes the same axl he always was, just a lil older. youre all acting a bit immature judging his music and his talent when you couldnt even compare to his ablity. u are all the most selfish fans ive ever seen. when u create music u create it for your own enjoyment, u dont do watever your fans tell u to do. this isnt the rennaisance for godsakes! grow up and relize wat music is rele about. be a faithful fan. and appreciate wat axl has given u in the past and will give u in the future. otherwise, dont even think about gnr, cuz ur not worthy of them.

I want to hate this album because if all that…But I can’t. It’s fuckin’ awesome. Although at this point it should be called the Axl Rose Experiment or something to that effect, why hide behind the G’nR name, take the credit personally.

It can be AXL ROSE left in G’nR and it’ll be G’nR because he made that band. So what even if he is the only original member left? Every original member will be represented playing somewhere on the album!

wah wah wah, everyone cries about slash and duff and the “original” members? where were the cry babies when steven adler got kicked out and matt came in? where were these babies when izzy left and they picked up gilby? as anders put it so well, has any of the “original members” done anything worthy? both snake pit albums were dated, so was duff’s nuerotic outisides project and velvet revolver only had a few good songs in 2 albums worth of music. i love the old like up from the use your illusion days (lets face it, adler was never that great of a drummer), but axl and izzy were the brain child of guns, but if anyone listened to izzy’s juju hounds cd, there wasn’t too much there. the tracks i’ve heard so far from chinese democracy are awesome and “better” rivals anything g n r EVER released, axl was and is guns n roses, yes, slash and duff were a big part (slash more than duff) with the solos and power riffs, but it was mostly all axl that made g n r work… with that being said, i can’t wait for the whole completed album, oh, and i caught g n r’s show at the hammerstein ballroom, axl is not fat and still can bang out notes like nobodys business.

Here is my question.. has anyone been doing anything for the last thirteen years besides waiting for this album? Don’t get me wrong, I went through some of my most interesting years while Jamming to Guns N Roses, but I have found other things to do and new music to jam to.

I was excited to see them at the VMA’s as much as everyone else.. but if they release the album or don’t release the album.. he is Axl F’n Rose.. he will do it or won’t do it.. move on .. at least there is Velvet Revolver… *laughs*

I’m just sitting here, listening to the leaked GNR, laughing at all you skeptics and haters up there. Axl is the man, and this album is going to be great. Get over yourselves, you aren’t too cool to like something that was popular in the 80s/early 90s.

oh, and btw, YES, this Chinese Democracy leak is FAR better than anything Velvet Revolver ever put out. So to those people saying ‘Axl wasn’t the entire band, what about Slash and all them?’ I say you are wrong.

Obviously the GNR guys were very talented musicians, but they don’t have the ear for music that Axl has. They don’t know what the people want and how to give it them, but Axl does. So yes, Axl is capable of grabbing fresh young talent and making GNR songs again.

Just give us a high def release of the friggin’ thing after this long – 5.1 and stereo HD mixes on SACD, DVD-Audio or Blu-ray Disc.
None of this CD compressed shit that has levels so jacked up all semblence of real music has been fucked right out of it.

Some wouldn’t know good music if they tripped over it! Axl Rose writes good songs, argue that….if you do, than your just one of those people who likes too take shots at something thats not like you! How ’bout you doin what he has accomplished? It’s no small feat to be doing what he’s been doing since the beginning of his career. So what if slash isn’t there. There are plenty of guitarists out there that “just as” good. Throw a wig on them if you want, but it’s Axl that DROVE THE BAND!

Axl is a twat no doubt. But he is a musical genious. A true artist. And the new songs are great. Axl will still attract the haters even when GNR are the biggest band in the world again. But he is the one going down in history, along with the other new members. Not us who’ve got nothing better to do than whine on the internet cuz we’re jealous

Dude, how much of an ass do you have to be to leak these songs when it’s clear that A) you’re a big GNR fan, and B) you know damn well how fucking long they’ve been making this record?? I find it very cheap that you would leak something someone has poured his heart and soul into for YEARS, for a quick exposure and 15 minutes of fame for your little blog! Now thanks to you, the fucking thing will probably be delayed EVEN MORE, as Axl with his perfectionist ways ponders what to do with the album and the leaked tracks. Besides, it’s not exactly hard to trace the leaker if you do it via a blog – I heard you even had the FBI suits visit, how was it, sweat much?

I came here to bash you to bits and curse you to hell but honestly, in your post you came across as a decent guy, so I don’t want to do that anymore. So instead I’ll just ask, WTF? We all want to hear the damn album after waiting this long, but still I kinda wish this stuff wasn’t leaking, as I know the more it leaks the longer we’ll have to wait for the actual album and to get the new GNR really off the ground. And yes, I heard the leaks and they rock hard (didn’t download any of them, though), but you’re still wrong for that.

Bottom line is that none of you have a record deal, so who are you to criticize Axl, Democracy, and the time and money it has taken to make? Geffen wouldn’t even piss on you if you were on fire, let alone give you $13 million and 14 years to make the album you want and make it the way you want it, so Axl must have something good going on. Geffen knows what music will sell (How else do you build such a huge label if you don’t know what will sell, and after all that is the ultimate goal of the industry, to make you part with your money, it is a business after all and not a charity) and knows what is worth his money, time and effort. If Geffen is willing to give Axl that much time and money without throwing him out on his ass and releasing what he has to recoup his investment, then I’m willing to give the album the benefit of the doubt. I gave the leaked tracks a listen and while they sound like rough cuts they do sound very good. As for the track that everyone thinks sounds familiar, that’s only because that sample from Cool Hand Luke had been used in the track Civil War. For those who say that it’s not Guns without Slash, Izzy and Duff, I say, who cares if they’re in or out? Axl wrote most of the lyrics for Guns and Izzy wrote most of the music, and there sure as hell hasn’t been anyone holding their breath waiting for Izzy to put something out. Guns had many people come and go even in their heyday, and still made great albums after the ‘original’ AFD line up had changed. Guns would just be a stale sound if they never progressed beyond AFD. Illusions were great albums with a maturing sound and lyrical content that showed a social awareness and musical sophistication that AFD lacked. They showed that Guns were a viable group that had more to offer than AFD and could capture the market and actually sell two albums at once. How many other groups can create enough interest to sell two separate albums at once and sell enough copies for each to go platinum 7 times over? From the sound of it Democracy simply furthers that progression and I’ll be happy to hear more of it whenever it comes out…

I have been waiting for this CD as much as the next person,always loved the Guns,then Axl had to make an ass of himself and walk.This CD will eventually be released.And to all you sniveling little bastards,crying,talking shit about this CD,that you won’t buy it,GROW THE HELL UP,you know you will ,or illegally download it,just to see if it measures up the past.And for those who are crackin’ on Axl for what he did on Bach’s CD,GET REAL!He sounds just as good now as he did back in the day.So,AGAIN,shut the hell up(I don’t see anyone here or any other place that has made the money or had the career Axl has had,so if any of you can do better,get off your dead ass and put a band together,make your own Chinese Democracy and release it),in the mean time,sit back,chill and wait…..

back in the day i didnt really care for gnr.i like the harder ,faster bands.anyway, over the years i found an appreciation for guns and roses.i never really got the idea behind use your illusions,all tho there were some great songs on those albums.it was no appetite for destruction!!on to the leaked new songs….as much as i want to just disregard gnr,these new songs are really very good and should make any guns fan glad to finally hear them,and bring new fans in also.axel was/is the main presence in the band(guns and roses was started by axel rose and traci gunns,of l.a.gunns,who left before they made it big)so it really doesnt matter who plays behind him.velvet revolver was great(they had a great singer,scott w)
as much as anyone i hate when bands lose original members(metallica,ac/dc,motley crue,KISS,etc…)but that doesnt mean that we cant appreciate the new music they produce for their enjoyment and ours.

Hi guns lovers and others who constantly nag, complain and disrespect Axl and his long awaited record. I’m to big a person to tell you punkass bitches, that your nothing but cheap roumore spreading whores.Oops guess I wasn’t that big after all. But seriously does any one of you sluts know this guy,Axl my guess is No.Personaly I dont think the greatest singer, songwriter has spent about 14-15 years times 365days on this much (I agree overdue album) but the guy probably has a private life. I know I would do all kinds of cool things with my time if I was in his shoes, what I’m trying to say is dont judge a person until you walked at least a coupple o miles in his shoes. personally I can relate somewhat to the little I know about HIM. About the new album. Those of you who expected a new version of apetite, come on that was over 22 years ago and as any great artist he developes unlike Jon bon sucme, and so many others. The man is a genius and after I missed the great concert in Stockholm 93 by reasons I dont want to share here the band broke up and I thought I would never get to see them. Like so many others I waited and waited more and more pissed. Especially after buying tickets to concerts 2001 june and again a few years later BUT in june 26 I think. I finally got to see them live and OH MY GOD I was on cloud nine for days after. And on top of that I met Axl at cafe opera which is a hi class nightclub in Stockholm and he was really cool as I comented him on a great concert.Finally the album has a depth that is (I think ) unseen in the buisness and I think he had a lot on his mind that omes out sometimes direct and sometimes you have to read between the cryptical lines. Pieace and if you got any coments to my words dont be shy my e-mail is temastab@hotmail.com

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[…] size of an album. This was completely unexpected. Why me? I don’t know. Maybe Steve had read this editorial I had published on June 6th, predicting the album would leak. I knew that the album was done. And […]