Question - how are the entry level receivers (Yamaha RX-V357/450/461/559 or Sony, Denon & Pioneer models in the same price range) DAC-s quality compared to those rather cheap, but good soundcards DAC-s (AV-710 Wolfson, M-Audio Revo & Audiophile, Juli@ or some USB DAC-s in the 100.- € range) ?

Is there a point to stick to the on-board RealTek sound and transfer bit-perfect stream over SPDIF to receiver or shall one buy better soundcard/separate DAC (if around 100€ is there to spend and we assume, that this same receiver stays as amplifier) ?

Many on-board sound systems (AC-97) will resample CD audio from 44kHz to 48kHz even at the coax output. There are some ways to improve this situation (ASIO4ALL, SRC resampler, etc.) but it is still a problem.

Any of the VIA sound controllers will have a good digital output (M-Audio, AV-710, Juli@, etc.).

I would imagine that DACs in entry-level receivers would be, at best, no better than those found in sound cards. But I still lean toward the sound cards. Sound cards are designed for one purpose, whereas these entry-level receivers are meant to be multi-purpose (audio/video).

Entry level receivers will sound about 20x better than even the best soundcards if my Kenwood is anything like the rest. Emu 0404 (pci or usb) loses to it badly, X-fi elite pro doesn't hold a candle etc.

It measures badly, but sounds great. It has a worse dac than the emu 0404 usb, but still outperforms it. And it's not even close.

Entry level receivers will sound about 20x better than even the best soundcards if my Kenwood is anything like the rest. Emu 0404 (pci or usb) loses to it badly, X-fi elite pro doesn't hold a candle etc.
It measures badly, but sounds great. It has a worse dac than the emu 0404 usb, but still outperforms it. And it's not even close.

The difference is often attributed to the output stages of receivers, which are usually much more mature than those of soundcards.

Entry level receivers will sound about 20x better than even the best soundcards if my Kenwood is anything like the rest. Emu 0404 (pci or usb) loses to it badly, X-fi elite pro doesn't hold a candle etc.

It measures badly, but sounds great. It has a worse dac than the emu 0404 usb, but still outperforms it. And it's not even close.

This is irrelevant.

He is asking about the DAC stages, not the opamp stages.

Driving headphones straight from soundcard, and straight from receiver is not comparable when talking about the DACs.

I am actually looking for a good receiver and was wondering the exact same thing. I plan on getting a Stello DA100 at some point in the near future, but I also want a receiver to hook up to my computer for movies via my mac optical out.

IM TALKING ABOUT THE DAC. I use a separate headphone amplifier (Rega Ear and Black Cube Linear) and output sounds digitally to the low-end receiver. It beats "superior" soundcards easily.

For example = X-fi Elite pro, Emu 0404 -> Black Cube Linear or Rega sounds worse than digitally to the receiver and then to the amp.

sure, if you know of a way to get the signal out of the dac without it passing through an amplification stage first to turn into a proper line-level signal. That's not what happens in most home receivers or soundcards, which brings us back to the device as a signal-producing whole. Yes, in some cases there is a "true line out," but I see no reason to judge those any differently than the ones that amplify the signal first. It's all about whether the line-level signal has the characteristics and quality (qualities) you're looking for.

It measures badly, but sounds great. It has a worse dac than the emu 0404 usb, but still outperforms it.

It measures badly, but it still "outperforms" the 0404 USB... I think we have different definitions of performance. If you like the sound of coloration, that's your choice.

OP, the DACs in current receivers are usually good. Often, a manufacturer will build a receiver around one DAC, and that design will trickle down the line to even the cheapest components. Even the lower-line DACs from companies like Cirrus, AKM, Burr-Brown, and Analog Devices still have great performance relative to what one might expect from onboard sound.

Standalone sound cards are good, too, but if you have a decent receiver, don't discount its internal DAC without hearing it. Of course, that only applies if you plan on using the receiver to power speakers or headphones using its amplification section, which may not be so great.