Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Elephant in the room, does this mean Izzo knows LBJ is coming back?

Just thinking the same thing, it'd be a hell of a jump to make blindly.... and frankly a dumb move to make if he isnt coming back. Lets hope he knows more than we do instead of just doing the blind faith thingy

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Elephant in the room, does this mean Izzo knows LBJ is coming back?

Just thinking the same thing, it'd be a hell of a jump to make blindly.... and frankly a dumb move to make if he isnt coming back. Lets hope he knows more than we do instead of just doing the blind faith thingy

I can think of three million reasons why Izzo would come w/ or without knowing LBJ was in place.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Elephant in the room, does this mean Izzo knows LBJ is coming back?

Just thinking the same thing, it'd be a hell of a jump to make blindly.... and frankly a dumb move to make if he isnt coming back. Lets hope he knows more than we do instead of just doing the blind faith thingy

I can think of three million reasons why Izzo would come w/ or without knowing LBJ was in place.

I'll never say $ isn't a consideration because, well, it is. But for guys like Izzo, legacy > $. If he thinks he can be the second successful college-to-NBA coach, well...Edit to add: Lebron being there is a HUGE part of that equation.

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

jb wrote:More red flags than a rip tide beach. Still convinced this is a very bad fit and TMLP is off the reservation and emotional from games 5 & 6 . Just pissed as hell at NBA athlete.

Maybe. Phil, Larry, and Coach K weren't answering his calls and TMLP wanted someone tried and tested this time around. Whether or not Izzo is the guy remains to be seen, but I can see more logic than Sparty Fan Gone Wild.

"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT

I don't see a better candidate than Izzo that wants to come to Cleveland. Unless someone can point me to the experienced NBA coach with a ring, a rock solid reputation and a desire to settle in NE Ohio I'm fine with Izzo.

Windy: Izzo to trek to Cleveland on Thursday, possibly to tour the Cavs facilities.

If nothing else, they're tantalizing us with it, to the point that if Izzo backs out now, it will be a disappointment. Even if you weren't all that crazy about hiring Izzo in the first place, it would be frustrating to get the carrot dangled to the teeth like this and not be able to take a bite.

Windy: Izzo to trek to Cleveland on Thursday, possibly to tour the Cavs facilities.

If nothing else, they're tantalizing us with it, to the point that if Izzo backs out now, it will be a disappointment. Even if you weren't all that crazy about hiring Izzo in the first place, it would be frustrating to get the carrot dangled to the teeth like this and not be able to take a bite.

Article I posted somewhere says he loves this shit. Validates him and feeds the beastly ego. I wouldn't be surprised if he walks away at the end w/o a gig in Cleveland.

Windy: Izzo to trek to Cleveland on Thursday, possibly to tour the Cavs facilities.

If nothing else, they're tantalizing us with it, to the point that if Izzo backs out now, it will be a disappointment. Even if you weren't all that crazy about hiring Izzo in the first place, it would be frustrating to get the carrot dangled to the teeth like this and not be able to take a bite.

Article I posted somewhere says he loves this shit. Validates him and feeds the beastly ego. I wouldn't be surprised if he walks away at the end w/o a gig in Cleveland.

The team has reached out to ESPN analyst and former New Orleans coach Byron Scott and ESPN/ABC analyst and former coach Jeff Van Gundy.

Scott has emerged as a strong candidate, according to an Eastern Conference executive with knowledge of the club's thinking. Scott is now on equal footing with Izzo, according to the source.

Scott has spoken with members of the Cavaliers' front office for the past few days and late Wednesday night, the talks took on a more serious nature. Scott is expected to have a formal interview with the team before the end of this weekend

Some members of the Cavaliers' brain trust are not sold on Izzo and would prefer to consider candidates with NBA experience before settling on the Spartans' head coach.The Michigan State staff doesn't know what Izzo will do, but according to a source, the staffers still believe that ultimately he will stay at Michigan State without an assurance that James would be with the Cavs.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Windy: Izzo to trek to Cleveland on Thursday, possibly to tour the Cavs facilities.

If nothing else, they're tantalizing us with it, to the point that if Izzo backs out now, it will be a disappointment. Even if you weren't all that crazy about hiring Izzo in the first place, it would be frustrating to get the carrot dangled to the teeth like this and not be able to take a bite.

Article I posted somewhere says he loves this shit. Validates him and feeds the beastly ego. I wouldn't be surprised if he walks away at the end w/o a gig in Cleveland.

Something else to consider about Izzo: He does have a huge ego, and guys with huge egos are often easily made to feel insecure. That won't happen in college, where the players can't question you and the trustees and boosters kiss your ass constantly.

In the pros, there are many more threats to a coach's ego. And if the coach can't manage that, he could end up pointing a lot of fingers and making a lot of enemies.

Worst-case scenario is if Izzo were to turn into Paul Silas, dropping F-bombs on players in full view of the media and benching guys out of spite.

EDIT: Actually, the worst-worst case scenario is if LeBron leaves, then Izzo muscles Chris Grant out of his job, and proceeds to bulldoze the roster of star power, opting instead for less-talented, easily manipulated yes-men, with Gilbert's full blind-faith blessing. Talk about an ego trip.

The Olympics aren't college. Not the same. Not even close. A handful of all star games vs overmatched teams is the same as the association grind?

I mean, we're talkin "college" here. College. Not the game where grown men are in control, but college. Not where a coach is glorified and players come and go. Not where it is a game of Xs and Os and slow it down. Not college. I mean, we're talking where superstars make or break coaches and are made-men, not boys pushed around at the whims of omnipotant coaches. Not college. College? College. Where coaches don't have to lead by influence but have full power. College. Not where coaches have to be psychologists more than wonks. College? Really? We're talkin' college.

The Olympics aren't college. Not the same. Not even close. A handful of all star games vs overmatched teams is the same as the association grind?

No. It is not. So again I ask. If the RatFace was coming to town, would anyone be freaking out about his lack of NBA pedigree? I doubt it.I mean, we're talkin "college" here. College. Not the game where grown men are in control, but college. Not where a coach is glorified and players come and go. Not where it is a game of Xs and Os and slow it down. Not college. I mean, we're talking where superstars make or break coaches and are made-men, not boys pushed around at the whims of omnipotant coaches. Not college. College? College. Where coaches don't have to lead by influence but have full power. College. Not where coaches have to be psychologists more than wonks. College? Really? We're talkin' college.

Maybe this is my point. For the most part, those who have failed at taking the next step? Recruiters. Most better at recruiting than actually coaching. Most with short runs of incredible success and getting out the door. Bouncers. Movers. Stepping stone guys. None of which I believe apply to Izzo. Will he be able to get in player's faces at the NBA level? Hell no. Do I think he can get the same message across without the in your face? Yes. And at the end of the day that is what matters. Is your message one that can win? Can you get your players to buy in? I think his message is quality. And I think he can get it through the heads of his players.

After much contemplation, I decided it was more important to me if Cleveland won a championship than MSU. While thinking about Izzo leaving MSU makes me sick to my stomach, I can’t help but be excited on the potential of Izzo and Lebron pairing up. It looks like Izzo was going to leave at some point anyways, so Izzo coming to my hometown team is best case scenario.

But if Izzo leaves MSU and Lebron leaves the Cavs, what a double screw job that would be for me. The MSU basketball program would be weaker without Izzo, and the Cavs would be a shell of their former self without Lebron. I think Izzo could still coach the Lebron-less Cavs to an 8th seed, but I would much rather have Izzo coaching MSU with national championship aspirations, than coaching a team hunting for an 8th seed.

"If sport is to have any value at all, the road traveled, even when it leads to a dead end, should always be a trip worth taking. Without the pain, the champagne, when it finally flows, will have no taste."

The Olympics aren't college. Not the same. Not even close. A handful of all star games vs overmatched teams is the same as the association grind?

No. It is not. So again I ask. If the RatFace was coming to town, would anyone be freaking out about his lack of NBA pedigree? I doubt it.I mean, we're talkin "college" here. College. Not the game where grown men are in control, but college. Not where a coach is glorified and players come and go. Not where it is a game of Xs and Os and slow it down. Not college. I mean, we're talking where superstars make or break coaches and are made-men, not boys pushed around at the whims of omnipotant coaches. Not college. College? College. Where coaches don't have to lead by influence but have full power. College. Not where coaches have to be psychologists more than wonks. College? Really? We're talkin' college.

Maybe this is my point. For the most part, those who have failed at taking the next step? Recruiters. Most better at recruiting than actually coaching. Most with short runs of incredible success and getting out the door. Bouncers. Movers. Stepping stone guys. None of which I believe apply to Izzo. Will he be able to get in player's faces at the NBA level? Hell no. Do I think he can get the same message across without the in your face? Yes. And at the end of the day that is what matters. Is your message one that can win? Can you get your players to buy in? I think his message is quality. And I think he can get it through the heads of his players.

jonne99 wrote:Also..despite what dan gilbert says, we have a rookie GM.....you really want to pair a rookie coach with him and expect them to get us to the next level?

Who do you have in mind? Izzo's not perfect, but perfect isn't out there.

Mike Brown was the perfect example of "right church, wrong pew" IMO. You WANT a guy who is "the next" in the Association AFAIC. Too many so-so retreads bouncing around, although Byron Scott ain't bad IMO.

Look, there are only 5 proven pro title winners out there who are alive and haven't been retired for a decade: Riles, Jackson, Rivers, Brown and Brown's pretege Pop. End of list. None are available unless Buss loses his damn mind. So you ain't gettin' em. May as well go with the most qualified up and comer you can. I'll stick to my guns and continue to say that Bill Laimbeer has the perfect resume at this time for how I define an NBA HC prospect. Played the game with the hardware you don't have to prove it, respected, tough, smart, can also lead emotionally. Disciple of Dailey. Played for a decade as a leader on a team filled with some certified whack jobs and gimormous egos. Knows first hand how to balance these things.

You will never, ever, convince me that the modern NCAA game is remotely connected to the modern NBA game as far as head coaching preparation. I really don't care if Rizzo were John Wooden. Shit, if that's the direction, why isn't TMLP all over Geno Auriemma?

On this matter though, I'm done. I don't want to keep pissing in the Izzy cherios. But I am on record that this is an emotional decision led by TMLP sans pro hoops people becasue he is Sparty geek, and this franchise direction of micro-managing owner who makes on the court decisions is never healthy.

Last edited by jb on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

I ask, somewhat rhetorically, because it seems like Izzo's game philosophy centers around rebounding the crap out of the ball and winning the transition battle, both of which certainly appear to apply in the NBA. He also doesn't rely on the 2-3 zone, which is nice.

FUDU wrote:By that logic wouldn't you be more inline with a Byron Scott hire? He has all the said qualifications Laimbeer has, and previous NBA HC experience.

Difference is Byron Scott has failed as an NBA coach and Laimbeer has not.

Just an inkling too, but I kind of like Laimbeer as a leader of men more than Scott. Laimbeer really was the ringleader of the Bad Boys. I don't think Scott, while a very, very good player, was the ringleader at any of his stops.

I ask, somewhat rhetorically, because it seems like Izzo's game philosophy centers around rebounding the crap out of the ball and winning the transition battle, both of which certainly appear to apply in the NBA. He also doesn't rely on the 2-3 zone, which is nice.

Just a different game all around it, not just in terms of X's and O's. It's a completely different culture. You could probably make a better case for what Cal does as being closer to the NBA being all about Le'Billys and D'Joes than being a 55 year old gritty overachiving college disciplinartian making it. I thnk Romie had it right today. Much respect to Izzo about what he does, but at the end of the day these Association guys just won't buy in. It'll all break down to "this is a bunch of college crap" at the first hard assed recation of losing streak.

FUDU wrote:By that logic wouldn't you be more inline with a Byron Scott hire? He has all the said qualifications Laimbeer has, and previous NBA HC experience.

Difference is Byron Scott has failed as an NBA coach and Laimbeer has not.

Just an inkling too, but I kind of like Laimbeer as a leader of men more than Scott. Laimbeer really was the ringleader of the Bad Boys. I don't think Scott, while a very, very good player, was the ringleader at any of his stops.

Herm, I don't recall exactly Scott's demise in NJ, so I'd like a refresher. I don't exactly know why it went bad. But he got the Nets to B2B conference titles and IMO he was set up to fail with the BobJazz bastard franchise. Still, he did a credible rebuild job with them for a while.

jonne99 wrote:Also..despite what dan gilbert says, we have a rookie GM.....you really want to pair a rookie coach with him and expect them to get us to the next level?

Who do you have in mind? Izzo's not perfect, but perfect isn't out there.

izzo is a great college coach. that's it. He might be a great nba coach and he might blow as an nba coach...i want someone that has coached before...we've already tried a rookie coach (roker...who had always been an assistant) and it ultimately didn't work.Why the hell would you run it through the spin again?

history isn't pretty for college coaches making the jump to the nba. For one, teams in transition (which may be us, depending on what lebron does) usually hire coaches from the college ranks. Guess what...they still end up sucking.

Now i'm not saying that this will be izzo, but you can't tell me that you'd rather have izzo over someone who has been there before.

but in no place is the pain like Cleveland's: all-encompassing, multi-generational, redundant and unique at once.---Scott Raab of Deadspin

jb wrote:Herm, I don't recall exactly Scott's demise in NJ, so I'd like a refresher. I don't exactly know why it went bad. But he got the Nets to B2B conference titles and IMO he was set up to fail with the BobJazz bastard franchise. Still, he did a credible rebuild job with them for a while.

I'm not sure he a failure who shouldn't get another look.

"Fail" is probably a tough way to put it. And TBH I'm not exactly sure what happened to Scott in New Jersey, although the old whispers of "lost his team" were circulating at the time. Remember, that team went on a tear when Scott was fired and Lawrence Frank hired to replace him.

I'm more leery of Scott because of what happened in New Orleans. Blew a 2-0 lead against the Spurs in the 2008 WCSF, lost Game 7 at home, and then they kind of fell apart afterward. They basically quit in the first round the following year against Denver (who loses a home playoff game by 58 points?)

Scott probably shouldn't have gotten fired in NJ, but when he did, Frank rolled off 13 wins in a row. He got the axe prematurely, and the fact that Frank didn't get as far as Scott is telling. Scott couldn't meet expectations with that Kidd/Carter/RJ nucleus, and that was his undoing. Running into the Shaq-Lakers and Duncan-Spurs teams in the finals was just bad luck.

Hornets were a mess when he got fired, I don't know who gets the blame there. He deserves another chance.

jonne99 wrote:Also..despite what dan gilbert says, we have a rookie GM.....you really want to pair a rookie coach with him and expect them to get us to the next level?

Who do you have in mind? Izzo's not perfect, but perfect isn't out there.

izzo is a great college coach. that's it. He might be a great nba coach and he might blow as an nba coach...i want someone that has coached before...we've already tried a rookie coach (roker...who had always been an assistant) and it ultimately didn't work.Why the hell would you run it through the spin again?

history isn't pretty for college coaches making the jump to the nba. For one, teams in transition (which may be us, depending on what lebron does) usually hire coaches from the college ranks. Guess what...they still end up sucking.

Now i'm not saying that this will be izzo, but you can't tell me that you'd rather have izzo over someone who has been there _______________ before.

"And I haven't even mentioned his X and O's skills. Let's just say, he's very Mike Brown on the offensive end of the floor. The Hornets literally ran one single solitary play with the high screen and roll with the center. It worked a lot two years ago simply because of Chris Paul's immense talent and the chemistry between him and Tyson Chandler. But better coached teams like San Antonio and the Lakers eventually exposed their bland offense game plan. "

Excuse me while I vomit. I retract my earlier post where I said I'd be fine with Scott...

"If sport is to have any value at all, the road traveled, even when it leads to a dead end, should always be a trip worth taking. Without the pain, the champagne, when it finally flows, will have no taste."