I saw Larry Bird banged up so badly in 1992 that he could barely play 3 solid minutes before he started limping up and down the court. He didn't go out, mind you. Just played through the pain. He was damn near crippled. His back was deteriorating by the second. On top of that, he had been injured repeatedly in the past couple of seasons, so he was playing on top of illness to begin with. AND the guy was in the twilight of his career. Every possible physical factor was against him.

That being said, teams still tripled him whenever he touched the ball.

And he still walked out with more than 20 points on most nights (along with 8 or 9 boards and 6-8 assists). That's how unstoppable Bird was.

That's why I'm one of the few people who thinks Bird was better than Magic. Bird was the epitome of skilled play encarnate. Magic had better physical tools (a 6'9" point guard??? You don't get more gifted than than), but Bird STILL played at Magic's level.

Bird has far more talent than Odom. Odom may be more physically gifted... but Bird had a better shot, better vision, better fundamental skills, and a larger passion for the game.

Nash has a better shot, better vision, better fundemental skills, and a larger passion for the game than baron. I think we just have different definitions of talent.

Well, I, for one, think that Nash is a more talented player than Baron.

Maybe that's where we differ. I think Baron can be better than any point guard in the league... except for Nash.

I was responding Dan initially, who said baron had more talent than nash. by his definition, odom has more talent than bird, because his definition clearly doesn't take skill into account. That was the basis for my response.

I dunno if I'd go that far. Baron was just an assist away from Steve Nash last year. If he can get Golden State to the playoffs with (virtually) the same roster, he could be a candidate. Especially if he has a better season than last year (21 PPG, 9.5 APG, and 5 RPG). Those are MVP numbers.

Yes... he can be a candidate, but I think he'll never be an MVP.

MVP = Play the whole season, if not miss a few games (I don't think he can do this, especially with Nellies run & gun offense and no true or good point guard to back him up), Make it to the play-offs in at least the mid-slots (I don't think he can do this, playoffs... yes, but not mid-slots of the play-offs), average over 20 points a game (he can do this), and at least 8 in another catagory (he can do this).

I'm not trying to be too negative about this upcoming season or about Baron, but I don't want to be too positive either. Saying BD might be an MVP this year is WAY TOO POSITIVE. He is missing in two catagories that I stated above. I was way too positive last year in hyping up the team to all my friends and making bets that I lost because of the Warriors woes last year.

This is a possiblity, but I don't mean to ruin anything here. I don't think it will happen with Baron. I hold J-Rich higher than Baron anyway.

If this happens... go ahead and say "I told you so," rub it in my face, and I'll take it like a man. I'll give you props for sure. This is just way to far fetched for me and if I'm wrong that is wonderful!

Bird has far more talent than Odom. Odom may be more physically gifted... but Bird had a better shot, better vision, better fundamental skills, and a larger passion for the game.

Nash has a better shot, better vision, better fundemental skills, and a larger passion for the game than baron. I think we just have different definitions of talent.

Well, I, for one, think that Nash is a more talented player than Baron.

Maybe that's where we differ. I think Baron can be better than any point guard in the league... except for Nash.

I was responding Dan initially, who said baron had more talent than nash. by his definition, odom has more talent than bird, because his definition clearly doesn't take skill into account. That was the basis for my response.

Ah. Then we're in agreement.

Josh Jamison wrote:

#32 wrote:

Josh Jamison wrote:BD will never be MVP.

I dunno if I'd go that far. Baron was just an assist away from Steve Nash last year. If he can get Golden State to the playoffs with (virtually) the same roster, he could be a candidate. Especially if he has a better season than last year (21 PPG, 9.5 APG, and 5 RPG). Those are MVP numbers.

Yes... he can be a candidate, but I think he'll never be an MVP.

MVP = Play the whole season, if not miss a few games (I don't think he can do this, especially with Nellies run & gun offense and no true or good point guard to back him up), Make it to the play-offs in at least the mid-slots (I don't think he can do this, playoffs... yes, but not mid-slots of the play-offs), average over 20 points a game (he can do this), and at least 8 in another catagory (he can do this).

I'm not trying to be too negative about this upcoming season or about Baron, but I don't want to be too positive either. Saying BD might be an MVP this year is WAY TOO POSITIVE. He is missing in two catagories that I stated above. I was way too positive last year in hyping up the team to all my friends and making bets that I lost because of the Warriors woes last year.

This is a possiblity, but I don't mean to ruin anything here. I don't think it will happen with Baron. I hold J-Rich higher than Baron anyway.

If this happens... go ahead and say "I told you so," rub it in my face, and I'll take it like a man. I'll give you props for sure. This is just way to far fetched for me and if I'm wrong that is wonderful!

I hold JRich higher than Baron, too. But, statistically speaking, MVP votes come from two places: personal stats and whether or not you're the team's leader.

More people consider Baron Davis to be the leader of the Warriors than they do with Jason Richardson. Plus, Jason (for the most part) is solely a scoring threat (along with 6 boards a night). Davis (when he's healthy) can contribute in 3 categories (points, assists, and rebounds) and be among the league's best in the first two.

Besides, Nelly's already told the press that he's not gonna play Baron for 40 minutes a night anymore. He'll limit him to around 35 (making his season average closer to 30... like Shaquille O'Neal in Miami). This will, hopefully, prevent a few injuries.

If Golden State can go from 34 wins last year to 50 this year (long shot) and claim a 6th or 5th seed, I don't think Baron for MVP is out of the question.

I'd think if the Warriors made the playoffs, people would have to decide on whether Baron played like a true MVP for the Warriors over the return of Nellie. We all saw what happened when the news broke out of Nelson's return. The television and newspapers were on it. People were saying this team has a greater shot now that Monty is gone and Nelson is back. It'll be up to Baron to put up the numbers, poise, maturity, and leadership.