I have to see one side of it. I get angry sometimes with my mother - she often says she would have had a 5th, but decided against it. While I have no doubt my mother loves us all (despite never vocalising it) sometimes I have felt throughout my upbringing that we were sort of a collection, we were all told we had to do well in life, had enormous expectations, and were made to feel like failures. yes I have issues with my mother, and while they did a great job of providing for us, I do think sometimes that her need to have 4 children wasn't out of a wish to spend more time with children, but just to have more.
She is currently going through the same thing with her dogs having just got another puppy. She is up to 3 dogs, and while she gets pleasure from them, you can see she's still not happy.

I on the other thing only want 2-3 children. I want this number because thats the number for me that will make my family seem whole. I dont want more cause I knew what it was like, and I dont want only 1 as I dont think its fair. I wanted them as close together as poss asI just wanted the whole dependency on my body out of the way as quickly as possible, so I could concentrate on making my family whole.

I definitly count my blessings that I have been ableto conceive easily, and I know people who can't. For me its not a void - rather a sense that this is what is right for me and my future. I look forward to cherishing my children and raising them to be strong and confident, and at peace with themselves.

I can see your point mbear - I think I know many women in their 50s/60s now who merely had children "because". My ex MIL was certainly one. She didn't have a maternal bone in her body. My mother is a capable woman, but not a nuturing mother. Had she stopped at 2 though - I wouldn't be here!!!!

I find it hard to sympathize with one group of friends whom want more, and another group whom cant have it at all.....

Why do you need to sympathise with 'either side,' I know if these particular people were my friends, given that I have experienced the joy and love of raising a child myself I would be understanding & supportive to all of their situations. Just because one group can't have any children, doesnt mean the other group should feel bad for wanting to have more.

Fi, you have put it so well. Your point about the puppies and your mother is what I have been thinking about. It is almost like having children because you are not happy in yourself. I'm NOT saying anyone here is like that!!! But I have known a couple of people that I think may have done this. And because of this I am probably over-psychoanalysing my own motives for more children!

This has been a very interesting topic - thanks, mbear, for starting it off!

On the subject of mothers - my mother said that she never should have had children. Probably not the best thing to say to your daughter. But we won't go there!! I love my mum dearly but I can see that she is not the overly maternal type.

I have 5 children and am pg with my 6th and I appreciate and love all of them.
I am very satisfied with my family and my life, I don't feel the need to keep reproducing as you put it.
My husband and I have a lot of love for each other and our family and we are lucky enough to be able to share that love with our children.
We both love children and love having a big family that is close and I can't wait for christmas day in another 10-20 years when my house will be taken over by my children, their partners and possibly my grandchildren.
I enjoy watching my children change,learn and grow everyday and I wouldn't change my life for anything.
There are a lot of people dissatisfied out there but I would like to believe it is mainly about relationships, money,material things not about their children.
Michelle

I dont think that women who have 3, 4, 5 or more babies are having more because they arent satisfied... To be honest the thing that annoys me and makes me think that they arent satisfied with the kids they have, are the people who have, say 3 children of one sex, and will keep trying until they get one of the other sex. But thats just my opinion, and I always wonder why people get so worried about what sex theyre baby is, when its really more important that theyre healthy (isn't it??).. Does that make sense? Um I went off topic there, sorry.

Karina, of course the most important thing is that our babies are healthy but that doesn't stop people from having gender preferances. When we think about ourselves as parents we often dream of having a little girl to shop with or a little boy to play footy with etc and even though we know that we should be greatful to have a healthy baby it can also be disappointing to see our visions not being realised. There are all sorts of reasons that people have gender preferences. I'm a bit of a tom-boy and I wanted sons because I felt more comfortable with the idea of raising sons than daughters but after my second son was born I did feel a bit sad that I probably won't ever have a daughter and if I ever fall pregnant again I will probably want a daughter. Of course I would love a son just as much but the mother-daughter bond is differant. Some people have other equally valid reasons for wanting sons or daughters. There is a great thread about it somewhere and also an article on the main site. I'll just go and dig them up for you....

ETA the article is here the poll is here and a really great thread is here

Karina, when I vocalise my want for atleast another child, people always assume I am dissatisfied with my 2 girls, which couldnt be more further from the truth. If we have #3 baby & its' a girl we will adore her as we do our other girls, but still I havent managed to sway to Dh to have a #4th (he is wanting #3, but thinks we need more bedrooms!) So I'd naturally get OOOH you want a boy, I really have no preference in children that I have, I am a middle sister of 3 girls we never missed out on anything because I had no brothers & I am super close to my Dad.
I guess the difference for us is that my parents always did & alwats will tell us how much they love us... We grew up with public displays of love & affection & I still can sit on my Mum's lap for a hug when or if I am sad or sick!!!

I have actually never come across anything but people asking "when's the next one"!!!
Fi, I grew up with a dad who was very much "you are failures, you have to do what I think is right". However, I see this as the only way he knew to get us to be happy and successful (it has taken me YEARS of therapy to understand him and really see that the poor guy just wanted the best for us). anyway, off the topic. But I think he and mum having three kids was just fine. I kind of think I'd love a few more brothers and sisters though!
I do know one family who have 6 kids and the kids are utterly amazing. The parents have high expectations and the kids lived up to it. They love each other so much and I know each child would hate to have any less siblings (they are 16 and up now).
I know this probably isn't what mbear wrote about, but I have never ever looked at big families and thought they must be disatissfied. i also understand about people trying to have the gender the want and ending up with lots of kids, but I am sure the parents still love all their kids. My friend has two boys and has been depressed each time because she wants a girl, but I know that she loves them and is so proud. Just because she wants the girl, doesn't mean she doesn't want the boys. I think that each and every one of us are meant to have what we have, be it lessons that we have to learn, or what, but maybe we should just count our own blessings and really not worry about what other people have or what we think they should be doing, having etc.
I think alot of unhappiness comes from putting others down, don't they say that what we don't like in other people is actually a reflection of what we don't like in ourselves?? xoxo

but I have never ever looked at big families and thought they must be disatissfied

Me neither! When I see big families out and about, it always makes me smile! Coming from a large family myself (5 kids), I am conscious that my parents had an abolute ball bringing us all up (there is an age gap of 17 years between eldest and youngest), and my childhood and teen years were SO full of affection and laughter between all of us, and so much love.....so I guess when I see large families, I smile to myself because I presume that is how they all feel too? Dunno......I hope so.......

I too am so grateful for the little one i have, and i want to spend every second with him. I guess i see them as precious little angels, and they bring so much to your lives. If i could have four, i would, purely because i just love children. I feel even more grateful just having DS as it took so long to have him, and thats why i want more, as they are gifts, and i love eveything about them. I feel i have a lot of love to give, not just for one.

I dont think bigger families are unhappy - but I know that mine, while perfectly normal, has its faults.
My mother was happy to fly over and see me when I had the miscarriage in January, but when I was in NZ 3 weeks later, she couldn't even give me the hug I yearned for. I have never heard her say she loves me, or give my father much affection at all, so she's just not maternal.

I know lots of families that are incredibly happy - regardless of whether there are 4 kids or 10!! Its how you make the family I guess.

Having seen how my mum is, I now understand what faults I dont want to have come through, so I make a special point of showing lots of affection to my daughter, and telling her I love her. I have a failed marriage that very well may have ended up like my parents one (who are still married after about 38y), and I knew it wasn't right.

I just think that some people have kids to fill a void, and others have them to fill a void in their souls that could only be filled by little bundles of trouble and delight . I hope that I can one day prove to my children that I love them exactly the way they are, and they are a joy in my life.

I would'nt call is a disappointment as suh in not getting your desired gender. Sure you can get disheartened and yes even alittle upset. I had 3 boys before having my little girl and even though I really wanted a girl each time I was pg I did not love my sons any less.

Ally, in the case of your gf I don't think that she is disapointed in not having a girl, more that she is mourning all the things that she is thinking she will miss out on. This is that only way I can really word it. It doesn't mean that she's not happy with what she does have, rather than she wants to feel the joy of being a mother to a little girl along with her boys.

B456/Trish; I though i would delete some of the posts that i put here, just in case they were taken the wrong way. My intentions werent to upset anyone, I simpy just wanted to give my point of view, that i dont understand the "crave" to have a certain sex child, to try baby after baby to get it. I do not judge those Mothers who do, as i havent been in that situation of needing/craving a particular sex Child.
But i know in my case - with the troubles that i had to have my beautiful DS, and many of my friends who are infertile, certainly havent judged anyone saying that they prefer a certain sex child, but hearing someone say it, definately is upsetting, and of course they wouldnt admit it to you. Some of my infertile friends have said "I would just love to have A child" after hearing such comments . Because of my fertility troubles, I feel blessed with whatever sex the man above will give me, be it 10 boys, or 10 girls. Whatever.
And on the other side of the fence, i do agree that if that is what you want, you are right, go for it, and why should'nt you? God gave most of us a gift of fertility and Motherhood. As i said before, it is just a sensitive topic for infertile couples.

Ally, all is good sweety. I didn't take any offense to your post at all. Just letting you know how I felt on the subject. I have had a few of those discussions over the years - not with infertile people, rather those who have their pigeon pairs. Of course, generally people who have atleast one of each can't understand what it is like to want a particular gender so bad.
As much I guess, as fertile women can't "truely" understand the yearning an infertile couple would haev. We can all only try to understand, offer compassion, and if we don't agree, walk away.

mbear, I would be more concerned for those who have a "void in their life". I would be more sad for your friends, not so judgemental. Lot's of people choose to make up for a "void" wether it be collecting stamps, seeking social contact - whatever. And if it is true they are having more children to do so - what is the harm in that if they cherish each one of them? With a babe in arms and wanting another it could be many things - maybe their partners are the ones creating the void by being less than what they thought they would be as fathers.
There was an article written recently about partners lack of action in terms of supporting the new family that illustrated the profound effect this can have on a mothers mental health. Could this be the case too?
Maybe they have dreams of a big happy family, maybe, maybe, maybe........

Who knows, but maybe a little more compassion and tolerance if this annoys you, there could be many factors

I totally agree with that Lulu, I think one of the reason's most people do have children is to fill a certain void that only having a child can fill. I know that our lives are more complete after bring Jackson into our picture.