Transcript of Dick Ludwig interview

1
Scooter Radio Program
Rosetta Kamlowsky Tapes
Dick Ludwig, YNP Concessionaire
Interview date: December 20, 1973
Rosetta: Dick Ludwig. What’s happening in the Park. Is there snow?
Dick: Well, I’ll tell you Rosetta, there’s a lot of snow. But before we get into what’s
happening in the park I’d sort of like to let the audience know how much I enjoy being
with you and how special it is because you were the first to come and visit us during the
first season in Yellowstone.
Rosetta: I’m surprised you remember.
Dick: Right there in the park. And it really, really was a pleasure, you’ve been telling
the story since you left, and I can’t tell you how appreciative we are in the park of your
letting your listeners know what’s going on and for that reason as we talked earlier the
invitation is out and I hope you’ll come and bring your new cross country skis and enjoy
them there in the park this winter.
Rosetta: I have cross…
Ron: I’m her cross country skis.
Rosetta: Oh. No, I do have. I had my Christmas present early this year. I have some
new cross country skis and I’ve just been waiting and waiting for them. And I am
coming into the park. This, as I’ve told them, Dick, this had to have been one of the
highlights of my life. The park to me is prettier in the winter time than in the summer.
Dick: Lots of people feel that way. I don’t know that I would agree a hundred percent
but I do know that the winter payoff is spectacular for a park lover. The snow does
things, as you recall, it softens things. The contrasts are super, the wildlife show is
unbelievable, and I think probably more important, the quiet, how deafening the silence
can be in the evening when it’s just wrapped in quiet. I like winter in the park.
Rosetta: Well, it was a change of pace for me. I think of Yellowstone Park as being
active and bustling, but in the winter time it is so soft and so lovely and if you want to
relax. And then, too, if you’re a sports enthusiast, if you like the snow and if you like to
get out and ski and snowshoe and snowmobile, that has to be heaven.
Dick: Oh, I think so, and I think that one of the real plusses that most need to be
reminded about is the fact that Yellowstone doesn’t offer, it is not for the downhill skier,
but rather just about every other kind of winter recreation activity a person can think of.
The cross country skiing, snowmobiling, snowshoeing, falling in the snow, throwing a
snowball, or sightseeing with the big snow coaches. It’s just a very different kind of
winter activity, I think.
2
Rosetta: When did you decide to open the park for the winter time?
Dick: Oh, we’re, right now to be accurate, the park has had a winter activity of sorts
since I believe the mid- 1950s, 1955, something of this type, when the first of the snow
coach expeditions into the park began. One day trips into and out of the park. It
progressed from there to a period during the late 1960s when hotel accommodations were
available in the Mammoth Hot Springs area, Mammoth Hot Springs Hotel. For many
reasons, that didn’t work out. But the program that you have enjoyed and been a part of
and that we’re talking about now first began three seasons ago. We’re entering our third
season now. So the winter of 1971- 72, right. December of 1971 was when we brought
this program that you’re familiar with into existence. That including the Old Faithful
area.
Rosetta: I always thought the park folded in the winter time. I don’t know why, well you
think there’s only Yellowstone Park in the summer time. But let’s talk about the people
who live in the Park year round.
Dick: Oh, yeah. There’s not plenty of people, not lots of people, but there is a small
contingent of park residents who are there all year long. Now in the Old Faithful area,
for example, the National Park Service has a small staff of naturalists, people on hand to
remind us why the park exist in the first place, which is something we tend to forget, the
natural wonders of the park and this sort of thing. So there’s a small contingent of
National Park Service people, all- year residents who winter in the Old Faithful area. Of
course, those who operate our hotel are at home during the winter time in the Old Faithful
area, and then, with our company there are probably, probably about 60 people who are
all- year residents of the park. We make our home in the north end of the park, in the
Mammoth area. And of course, the all- year staff of the National Park Service as well. So
there is a population in the park, probably a number somewhere around, well, I’m
guessing now, but I would imagine about 300 people who are all- year residents of the
park.
Rosetta: And you live in the Mammoth area year round?
Dick: That’s correct.
Rosetta: What do you do there? How do you like living there? Isn’t it kind of isolated?
Dick: Oh, sure, it’s isolated, but I suspect that this is, oh, to use the popular phrase now,
one of the trade- offs that one has to make. The, you know, if you choose to be in this
area, you choose to be there for a reason and it’s beautiful, it’s quiet, it’s a peaceful sort
of place and certainly it’s outdoorsy and I’m very big in the outdoors. I sort of like the
relaxed nature of it when I’m there. And so this is home for me and my family and others
who make a home there, we sort of trade off. And we do without some of the things the
folks in the city have regularly at their disposal. It’s very enjoyable.
3
Rosetta: I, when I took the big snow machine, what do you call it?
Dick: Snow coach.
Rosetta: The big snow coach, or the safari, through the park, we went, someplace, was it
in the canyon area, and there’s a keeper. You have keepers in fact who live at the lodges.
There was a keeper there, a man who lived there year round and I know his job was to get
the snow off the roof.
Dick: Sure. This is really a lot of fun, and it is. The world is made up I guess of
interesting people who enjoy different things and this is one. You were referring to a
fellow who is our winter keeper at Canyon Village Lodge and Cabins, right in the Grand
Canyon of the Yellowstone area. And this is a, he has a very comfortable, very warm,
small cabin and this fellow, that you met, lived alone, and during the daytime would
attend to the buildings themselves. I’m sure you can appreciate the fact the snow load on
roofs and things.
Rosetta: Well, we were like kids. We all jumped out of the snow coach, of course, this
was a group of rangers and so it wasn’t the usual load, and we all jumped out and ran on
the roof, up the roof and tried to help him get the snow off. The poor man. I think he
was glad when we left ( laughter). It was…. what a job!
Dick: He probably was glad when you left, you know, the invasion of privacy. He
chooses to be there alone and a bunch of wild people come charging over the roof.
Anyhow, yeah, it’s a lot of fun.
Rosetta: Now, does each location have an innkeeper or someone who watches over the
buildings?
Dick: Yes.
Rosetta: Because, aren’t all the parks and buildings with sloping roofs, I’m trying to
remember.
Dick: Well, yes and no, but again, going back to your question, each of the major
locations in the park that needs the engineering help does have a winter keeper. This
would be then in the Old Faithful area we have a winter keeper who sees to the buildings
that are not open. The lake area where we have Lake Yellowstone Hotel, Lake Lodge
and Cabins, this sort of thing, has a keeper, and the Canyon Village area. We don’t have
a winter keeper at Mammoth because Mammoth is, this is headquarters and there are
maintenance people who can see what it needs right there.
Rosetta: I remember talking to him, if he didn’t get lonesome, and I said, “ Golly, don’t
you get lonesome?” and he said “ No, I have a lot of friends.” “ Oh, how do they get
here?” “ Well, I have this blue jay who comes to my door every morning….” ( laughter)
“ and sits there and waits for me to let him in.” And he had all the little animals and he
4
was a rather talkative person, I mean, he wasn’t a recluse or someone who was there
hiding out. He was really talking and visited and he was perfectly happy living there
doing what he did. Of course, the snow coach came in every day, made the round every
day, so he did get to see people.
Dick: Oh, yeah. Well, they’re not so remote. There are even personal friends. The
National Park Service has a ranger on duty who is in the lake area and we have a winter
keeper in the lake area and these men have their own small snow mobiles. They enjoy
ski touring and snow shoeing and such, and so we’ll visit back and forth from area to
area. It really is, I’ve gone out on occasion to spend an evening, spend a couple of
evenings, or perhaps a day with these people and it really is fun. It’s good fun.
Rosetta: I didn’t recognize some of those places when I was on, in that snow coach.
Going through the park, when you get off the road and everything is white, I couldn’t
believe we were at some of the areas that we were in. No, this can’t be the Geyser Basin.
I couldn’t believe it. And you have quite a route that those snow coaches travel.
Dick: Yeah, we have, we regularly explore probably somewhere close to 150 miles of
what is, during the summer time, roads. Don’t get me in trouble, by the way Rosetta; you
didn’t get off the trail at all.
Rosetta: I didn’t?
Dick: No, you weren’t off the trail. There are 200 miles of designated trails where we
have to run our machines and where the small snowmobilers have to operate and you
were on them. We explore probably 150 miles of that. We run regularly from three of
the park gates. We come in from Gardiner at the North, Gardiner, Montana, or West
Yellowstone to the West boundary or up from the south coming through Jackson, the
south entrance Jackson, Wyoming. And then operating from those gates regularly to the
Old Faithful area of the park. This is a regular one day excursion by means of our snow
coaches. Then we also operate from the north entrance and/ or from the west entrance, or
from Old Faithful snow lodge in the center of the park to the Grand Canyon of the
Yellowstone. Now by following those routes, people who are familiar with the park
would recognize that they would see such things as the Madison River, Madison
Junction, the Fire Hole River, Fire Hole Canyon, Upper Geyser Basin, Middle Geyser
Basin, Lower Geyser Basin, Norris Geyser Basin, the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone,
Upper Falls, Lower Falls, the distance between the north gate and Norris Junction, Polaris
Springs, the Electric Peak, Swan Lake Flat, the Golden Gate of Yellowstone, and just all
of these places that are so familiar, but in the winter time.
Rosetta: I want to talk more about this tour because that was one of the highlights, but
we’ve been getting calls, Ron. Do you have some questions or is this call going on the
air?
Ron: Yes, right. We have a caller, go ahead please.
5
Caller: Yes. I wonder if you might, is he representing a private company in the park or is
this...?
Ron: Yes. Private company.
Caller: I wonder if he could tell us how to go about getting permits to have private
industry in the park. Does it go on a bid system? Or in other words, they allow just so
much business in the park and who is allowed there. How to you decide which party and
private industry has this privilege? And what, do they pay on a percentage basis of their
profits to the park system, to the government? Or just tell us how private industry gets in
there and so on. Thank you.
Ron: Thank you.
Dick: The question, Rosetta, is an involved question. I hope I can remember all the bits
and pieces and give a factual answer. The first thing I would like to remind listeners is
that I am with Yellowstone Park Company. This is private enterprise operating within
the park and therefore, anything that I have to say should be or can be corrected or can be
commented upon by the National Park Service. The National Park Service is your arm,
it’s my arm, the parks belong to you and me. And the National Park Service, on your
behalf and my behalf, is responsible I think for the administration and the operation of the
park. Now to your listener’s question, historically we can go back to the act of dedication
when Yellowstone National Park was created in 1872, and there we find a section, I can’t
quote it verbatim, but I’m sure I can be accurate. We find a section where the
administrators of the park are charged with the responsibility for setting aside certain
tracks of land within these natural preserves to be used for the provision of visitor
services as may be required. These, this statement plus, plus the, plus time, history,
legislation, resolutions, executive orders, so on, so forth, has developed into what we
refer to in National “ Parkese” as a concession. We operate as a concessionaire by the
grace of the American people through the National Park Service. It is in this way that
private enterprise is permitted within the boundaries of our federal and national and
public preserve. The philosophy being that certain amenities, certain guest services, are
required by certain of the park owners to better enjoy the reason for the park’s existence.
And so, the National Park Service, whether it’s in Yellowstone or Glacier or Grand
Tetons or Grand Canyon or Utah parks or Yosemite, as the case may be, has the authority
to grant to a private concern, if it is in the public interest, the right to operate certain
private enterprise, hotel accommodations, motor transportation, other recreational
activities. And this is what Yellowstone Park Company is. We operate as a
concessionaire, concession granted by the National Park Service. We are for profit,
however, the National Park Service, on behalf of the people who own the park, does have
a good deal to say about what we can charge, about what services we can provide, and in
what way we must provide them. So to that extent we’re perhaps a bit more controlled
than private enterprise might be outside of the National Park. Finally, recalling the
questions, yes, we do operate on a contract, the contract does have a duration, it is open at
the end of a specified period for renegotiation. And this is, that’s about as far as I can go
and comment with any degree of accuracy. I believe an interested party could show
6
interest in acquiring the concession and therefore make it a competitive situation. I’m not
at all sure about that. Oh, and finally, one other point, I think that as far as your listener
is concerned, they can be confident that the National Park Service does take a very
cautious view about expanding business, in other words, to proliferate any number of
small little businesses within the park. I hope that answers the question.
Rosetta: You have been getting calls left and right in the there Ron.
Ron: A caller just called to ask if the buildings belong to the park and if it’s on a bid
system when your contract runs out whether it’s a bid system or how the Forest Service
makes their selection.
Dick: The question with regard to real estate is a tough one to answer. Again, because
the land upon which the structure is built clearly does not belong to anybody but the
American people. That is public land. The capital improvements do belong to the
concessionaire, so long as the concessionaire has the contract. In the event that an
existing concessionaire would pass from the scene, then the replacement concessionaire
would acquire the capital structures and pay the previous concessionaire. So I guess by
that definition we would have to say that the capital structures do belong to the existing
concessionaire, but would pass from concessionaire to concessionaire. What was the
other part of the question, Ron?
Ron: Whether there’s a bid when there’s a concession decided to be opened or when
your contract runs out. Do they take competitive bids, how does the government decide?
Dick: I can only conjecture. I don’t know because I haven’t been through the routine
before, but it’s my understanding that a bid situation could exist if somebody besides the
existing concessionaire was interested in taking over the concessions.
Ron: We have a caller. Go ahead please.
Caller: Yeah. I’m interested in the recreational aspect instead of the business aspect. I
was wondering, we’re going down there New Year’s weekend and I was wondering if
you could give an idea of what the snow is like in the park and if they have any other gas
stops located in the park now for snowmobilers other than Old Faithful?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Caller: And one other thing. Is it possible to take a day’s tour on a snowmobile, private
one, from West Yellowstone over toward the Jackson Hole entrance and back?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Rosetta: All right. The first question was… what was the first question?
Dick: Yeah, no the recreational aspects of the park.
7
Rosetta: The recreational.
Dick: And snowmobiling and this sort of thing.
Rosetta: New Year’s weekend, how about snow?
Dick: Right. First of all, Rosetta, again, I’ve got to try second hand, your listeners will
probably find this difficult to believe but I think I’ve been in the park in the last two
weeks three days. The snow conditions are good. The gates to the park are open now for
operation small snowmobiles, guest services, in particular the fueling situation that your
listener just asked about, don’t begin until the 21st of December. We open our facilities
and services on December 21st which is tomorrow. With respect to the fueling stop, no,
there are no other fueling stops in the snow in the park than in the Old Faithful area.
There is fuel available at gateway communities, of course, West Yellowstone, Gardiner
and to the south. But there are extensive fueling facilities in the Old Faithful area. And
since your listener has asked and since I’m sure a number of people are anticipating it, let
me anticipate a couple of questions. First of all, our service station facilities in the park,
in the Old Faithful area, will abide by the President’s request to conserve fuel by not
selling fuel on Sundays. So your listener and others who are bringing their own small
machines in the park should come along and be welcomed and know that there will be
fuel available six days out of the week. On Sunday we’ll rest. And also if a person is
planning to travel from Helena or your listening area to the park or home again on
Sundays should remember that some 95 percent of the service station operators on the
highways are honoring this Sunday closure. But I hope that answers the question. Oh,
and I don’t recall, I’m sorry but there was some interference what this question was
taking a private trip from….
Rosetta: If there were other accommodations, sleeping accommodations, aside from
what is at Old Faithful, within the park?
Dick: No, there are none. The Old Faithful Snow Lodge and Cabins is the only location
which is open during the winter time to accommodate guests.
Rosetta: Okay. Our line is again open. Ron has some questions phoned in, 442- 6161.
Ron: Okay, one more, a couple more questions. Do you have to pay the federal
government some kind of an extra tax or a percentage of profits for operating, and the
other one is, can you drive your personal vehicle from West Yellowstone to Old Faithful.
Rosetta: Let’s take the first one.
Dick: Question number one I’ll answer only this far, I will answer that yes, Yellowstone
Park Company and any other concessionaire operating within a park does pay a
concessionaire’s fee which is a minimum figure or percentage of profit, whichever is
greater. With regard to the second question the answer is no. All of the roads within the
8
park are snow covered and snow packed. There is no driving of private automobiles
anywhere in the park during the winter time with one exception, and it’s a beautiful
exception incidentally. And that is from Mammoth at the north entrance of the park to
Cooke City which is approximately 55 miles dead east of Mammoth. There is 55 miles
of road through the park maintained and kept open all year because that is the only access
to Cooke City during the winter time. It’s a beautiful drive, incidentally, absolutely
spectacular drive and if people are coming in our direction it gives another day’s activity.
Rosetta: That drive between Bozeman and West Yellowstone is pretty spectacular.
Dick: The Gallatin Canyon.
Rosetta: Yeah, the Gallatin Canyon at this time of the year has to be something else.
And it’s not that, when we went through it, we’ve gone through it before, it’s not all that
dangerous. I mean people, “ Oh, my word,” it isn’t dangerous because if you recall it is
the flat and there aren’t any mountain peaks that you’re going to fall off and it’s just
banks of snow and it’s darn gorgeous.
Dick: Yeah, it can… this is right and most Montanans are accustomed to this kind of
driving, it’s slow driving.
Rosetta: Yes, oh yes.
Dick: But safe, and by the way you’re touching on something which is really dear to my
heart, needless to say Yellowstone is a focal point. But you know, by expanding one’s
outlook a little bit we come with a place with an area we can call Yellowstone Country,
the country surrounding the park that Yellowstone has impact on and now we begin to
take inventory of some of the most fantastic recreation possibilities. The whole Gallatin
Canyon in the winter time is a beautiful place and West Yellowstone being the
snowmobiling capital, as they call themselves, the Snowmobiling Capital of the World,
Targhee National Forest, Gallatin National Forest, Teton National Forest, the Grand
Tetons to the south, over on the east the national forests that surround Yellowstone,
surrounding with Cody and coming up through Red Lodge and these areas. The
recreational possibilities in winter time with Yellowstone as a focal point, but all the
areas around, it is just tremendous. It’s terrific to consider what’s there.
Rosetta: I think we should comment on accommodations in West Yellowstone. Some
people might be curious about what is available to them for a Friday night stay if they
plan to go into the park on Saturday.
Dick: Sure, again, I’m not in a position to give you an accurate inventory, Rosetta, so
much as to say that each winter that I’ve been involved with winter in Yellowstone, the
operation in the community of West Yellowstone has expanded slightly. There are a
number of good motels, motor hotels, operating in West Yellowstone on all- year basis.
Snowmobiles are available for rent and with instruction and guide service in the area, a
full array of services for the small snowmobiler and this sort of thing.
9
Ron: Scooter, go ahead please.
Caller: Yeah, I have a couple of unrelated things. I was wondering who runs the
National Park Service. Somebody called and said something about the Forest Service
which I think is part of the Department of Agriculture, but isn’t the Park Service a
separate entity that’s part of the Department of the Interior? And the other question I
have is what’s the cost of a winter trip to Yellowstone Park?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Rosetta: I heard the first part of the question, but I don’t think I heard the last part.
Ron: What’s the cost of some of the trips through the park.
Rosetta: We’re going to get into that. Okay.
Dick: The National Park Service is an arm of the United States Department of Interior.
And so the government agency or the government, division of the government
responsible for operating national parks is the United States Department of Interior,
Secretary Morton, and he delegates his responsibility to the National Park Service who
operates the national parks per se. And, Rosetta, how do I handle costs. Let me try some
bits and pieces. Let’s try lodging in the park, for example. Choosing a room, two people
sharing a room in our lodge, for example, is right in the Snow Lodge building itself, the
cost is $ 14 per night for the room. If, and I would point out to your listener at this point
that the rooms I’m talking about now in the lodge are very simple, very plain, they’re
comfortable and warm. Bath facilities in the lodge are down the hall rather than in the
room. The cabin accommodations, we have a small number of cabins clustered about the
main lodge building now. That’s new to you, incidentally. The cabins coming into being
for the first time this year, are all heated and have their own private bath facilities, and
two people sharing one of the cabins, cabin rooms, would cost $ 16 a night. Those
figures, by the way, don’t include tax. Tax is four percent on these figures. Nor does it
include meals.
Rosetta: I might add, though, if someone’s “ Oh, my word, I have to go down the hall to
the bathroom,” when I was there I shared the bathroom with Governor Rampton’s wife
( laughter) from Utah. I rode in with the Governor of Utah, if you recall, he was visiting
the park, and Mrs. Rampton and I brushed our teeth together, which is fine.
Dick: Sure. As a matter of fact, I smile at this, you know I travel frequently and on
many occasions am fortunate to take my family along. This involves my wife and three
teenage children and sharing one large motel room and standing in line for the bathroom
gets to be a bit of a hassle. In any event, moving right along now, Rosetta, a person could
plan I think on, oh, budget somewhere around $ 10 a day for food.
Rosetta: Per person.
10
Dick: Excuse me, per person, and enjoy ski touring as a new thing to do, cross country
skiing, for example, half day which involves the skis, the poles, the boots, bindings, and
top notch instructor service, three and a half hours or so for $ 10 per person. Sixteen
dollars for a full day ski touring with all things included and most important, I do focus
on this, instruction; fine instruction to get a person underway and going. Snow coaches
can range from $ 20 to $ 30 per person depending on the gate of entry. It cost about $ 20
round trip to come into and out of the park by means of a snow coach from West
Yellowstone. About $ 25 per person to come in and out through the north gate, and about
$ 32 per person to come in and out through the south gate.
Rosetta: That’s a full day though almost, isn’t it, the snow coach?
Dick: Oh yes.
Rosetta: You’re not just going in there for an hour or so, you’re having quite a tour.
Dick: No, it’s a full day’s activity.
Rosetta: They can have a lunch packed.
Dick: The lunch cost is included in those rates I just quoted.
Rosetta: That’s right. I remember that now. We all had a lunch.
Dick: Right. So these are some approximate costs and they’re individual costs now. The
thing that I think most listeners would be interested in, and for further information along
these lines, the first thing I would do is refer your listeners to their travel agent. For
example last evening I was with the travel agents in Helena talking about our winter
activity and this sort of thing, so these people are qualified and can help to wind your way
through this maze of information, but in any event, package vacations. We have them.
Rosetta: I think we’ll take …
Ron: Speaking of travel agents….
Rosetta: It’s time for me to tell you to call Atlas Travel and talk to Johnette or Betty
about taking the tour into Yellowstone Park, because they have all the information
available for you, Atlas Travel. Find out all the details on this and other places you’d
like to go. What a fabulous Christmas gift, a trip into Yellowstone, really, Atlas Travel in
the First National Bank building. We have a call.
Ron: And if you would rather travel with books…
Rosetta: Oh, well, you can read about Yellowstone Park with books from the Susan Aker
Book Shop. She has books on the history of it, I’m sure, but for this Christmas season
11
some of the things that Susan would like you to know about at the Susan Aker Book
Shop would be a book for someone young. You can have Once Upon a Pond, written by
A. B. Guthrie. Another fun book from the Susan Aker Book Store is Poets’ Surprises,
Poets’ Surprises, which was written by a Helena woman, Ansel Green. It’s a book of
word boners and, well, you’ll find a book there for everyone, Susan Aker Book Shop
located at 29 West Sixth Avenue, opening at 10: 30 and open until 5: 30.
Ron ( to caller): Go ahead please.
Caller: Yes. I’d like to know, we have some young children and would like to take the
trip. What, do they discourage bringing young children?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Dick: No, as a matter of fact, Rosetta, to the absolute contrary, we definitely don’t
discourage children, I think that the winter activity again recall your visit, the winter
activity in Yellowstone is probably one of the really fine family type destinations. We
don’t discourage children at all. I do think it’s fair that I share my own personal
observation with your listener. You must decide for yourself how much babysitting you
want to do. In short, it’s a recreational kind of visit, it’s an outdoor kind of visit. We find
that youngsters at the age of about four, from four and up, adapt very, very quickly to the
winter recreation activities, the ski touring, the kids are all out enjoying, just bingo. A lot
less inhibitions I think than the older folks have. And of course, the snow coaches are
beautiful for kids. The hatches pop open and the kids can look out through the top and
the hotel accommodations are quite comfortable for youngsters. We encourage family
visits. Now the four- year- old thing is my own arbitrary guideline, looking back on my
own life of bringing up my kids. I think that if you have an 18- month- old child, if you
want to spend your time babysitting, bring them along, it’s delightful. But I think that
you may like the freedom of being able to get away. Four- years- old is a good year, and
by the way, there are children’s rates available. I can’t quote them indiscriminately
because there are a number of governing situations but just for example, let’s try one that
I can quote over the air now. If one was to come into Old Faithful Snow Lodge by snow
coach from West Yellowstone, the adult rate including tax is $ 21.48. A child’s rate is
$ 11.51. So there’s a very substantial reduction in snow coach travel for families and
hotel accommodations can be shared at reasonable costs, this kind of thing. Bring your
kids.
Rosetta: They run around, kids get out and run around, whatever they have to do out
there in the snow. Okay.
Ron: You heard of Rosetta getting lost a time or two in your time, I suppose. Anyway,
she’s been trying to tell where us a spot is on the south end of town.
Rosetta: Oh, I know. Ron, why don’t you tell them? I got calls, did you hear about that.
Ron: Oh, it was bad.
12
Rosetta: Well, I tried to tell everyone how to get to Reeder’s Alley, we’ve had some road
work being done.
Ron: What did you do, say you turn left instead of right?
Rosetta: No. I said you go down Last Chance Gulch. You have to go up Last Chance
Gulch. If you go down Last Chance Gulch you’re going to have a wreck because it’s a
one- way street. So you go up, up? – Last Chance Gulch. Which way is it, Ron? You go
up Last Chance Gulch, I don’t know. Down or up?
Ron: You go south, up. Go up, up.
Rosetta: You go up to Broadway. Then you turn right, and then you go to Park, and then
you turn left and then you’ll find Reeder’s Alley and it’s a two way street there, but go to
Reeder’s Alley for your Christmas shopping. They have unusual gift items and very
inexpensive. J & J Antiques, Alma’s Lamp Shop, the Picturell Gallery and Cabin’s
Creek Trading Company. We have a call.
Ron: Go ahead please.
Caller: I’m Carl Perry ( mumbled) and a gold miner and my mother before she passed
away, she left me a bunch of notes on history. And she said Bill Hitchcock and Calamity
Jane drove the first toll stage into Yellowstone National Park and a surrey with the
tasseled things on top, you know.
Ron: Oh, yeah.
Caller: And Calamity Jane went ahead as a scout, but I don’t know.
Ron: Did you say Calamity Jane?
Caller: Yes. Calamity Jane and Bill Hitchcock.
Ron: With a scout like that I’ve gone anywhere. Thank you for calling. Bye now.
Rosetta: We have only a few minutes left. This week we are… Dick, we have a few
minutes left, and again, our guest has been Dick Ludwig who is with the Yellowstone
Park Company. What would you like to tell them in closing?
Dick: Oh, I think that since you give me the opportunity I’ll take the ball and run. For
those we haven’t really run down the inventory of what is available item by item I think
Rosetta. First of all lodging, lodging in the heart of the park, Old Faithful Snow Lodge
with the lodge rooms, cabin rooms, a nice little dining facility and lounge. Of interest to
the snowmobilers who are familiar with the park this year a brand new snack shop
outside of the main building that will let these people get in and get out quickly so they
13
can go about on their snow machines. The one- day expeditions into and out of the park
by means of our big snow coaches, guided, they’re enclosed, they’re heated; very, very
nice equipment. Small snowmobiler is welcome into the park. There’s fueling facilities
and things of this type available. And of course, one thing that I don’t want to forget is
the interpretive services available by the National Park Service, keeping naturalists on
duty in the heart of the park in the Old Faithful area to help people who appreciate and
understand what’s there. That’s winter in Yellowstone. I again hope that you will take
time to come back and be with us this winter.
Rosetta: I am. I’m coming back. It’s very casual, I think we should tell them, too.
When you go in you take very little, as far as what to wear, warm clothes, bring along
your long underwear and warm socks.
Dick: Good, I’m glad you pointed that out. You are right. Extremely informal.
Rosetta: Don’t bring along a dress, gals. You won’t want to wear it.
Dick: No, no. And wherever we go nowadays we see the sign that says “ shirt and
shoes.” We do suggest trousers as well. ( laughter) In any event, keep your head and
your hands and your feet warm, as well as durable outer wear, and be comfortable in the
park, you’re right.
Rosetta: And eating is very informal.
Dick: Yep. Buffet style.
Rosetta: Good food, too.
Dick: Good food, lots of it, buffet style at breakfast and lunch. Again, something new
for you, Rosetta, sit down service at dinner this year.
Rosetta: Oh, we no longer serve ourselves. That was the first year you were open.
Dick: Since you were there.
Rosetta: And this will be your third winter.
Dick: Third winter.
Rosetta: That’s great. I hope that more people can take advantage of it. They should call
a travel agent to make reservations. How far in advance? The weekends fill up quickly.
Dick: Yeah. Saturday night is historically tight because people coming to visit are local
residents taking a weekend. Saturday night is difficult, but don’t give up. This Christmas
week is going to be very difficult, very tight. As a matter of fact, I’d be surprised if you
could get a reservation between Christmas and New Year’s right now. And
14
Washington’s Birthday looks like it’s going to be quite a go round. Outside of that we
should be able to accommodate most needs. See your travel agent or, well, see your
travel agent to be in touch with Yellowstone Park Company.
Rosetta: Okay. Well, Ron, how are we for time?
Ron: Oh, I’ll give you about 30 seconds do to whatever you would like to do.
Rosetta: Well, thank you very much. Tomorrow is Friday, December the 21st, and we’re
going to have Don Delisky come down, who is a psychologist. We’re going to touch on
little things like the emotionalism of Christmas, and the anxiety that Christmas brings
with it. Christmas is a happy time, but there is another part of Christmas, and we’ll talk
about the fantasies of Christmas, and it’s going to be one of those days when you can see
if you go along with the Christmas scene. And we don’t want to upset anyone but we’ll
just discuss it because we all have these feelings. We get lonely sometimes, and wish we
could be with people we can’t, and this is natural, and mean, Ron is mean, you don’t see
him right now, he’s so mean.
Ron: You should have seen me for the last three or four days!
Rosetta: Oh, yeah. Well, we get very mean here especially in the advertising business,
we’re nearly climbing the walls and we’re so happy when it’s over because it’s a busy
time for all of us. Thank you again, Dick Ludwig, and I’ll see you in the Park, huh.
Dick: I hope so.
Rosetta: With my new cross country skis.
Dick: Hey, by the way, have a happy Christmas.
Rosetta: Same to you.
Dick: And as appropriate for your show tomorrow, remember somebody who’d like to
be thought of.
Rosetta: Oh, how nice. Yeah. Remember that. We’ll see you tomorrow.

Click tabs to swap between content that is broken into logical sections.

Interviewed by Rosetta Kamlowsky on December 20, 1973 for the Scooter radio show on KBLL radio. Dick Ludwig was a Yellowstone National Park Concessionaire

Creator

Ludwid, Dick

Type

Text

Language

eng

Date Original

December 20, 1973

Subject

Interviewing on radio--Montana; Yellowstone National Park

Rights Management

Made available for scholarly, research and educational purposes only

Contributors

Kamlowsky, Rosetta; KBLL Radio

Contributing Institution

Montana Historical Society Research Center

Geographic Coverage

Montana

Digital Collection

Kamlowsky (Rosetta) Radio Interviews

Format

application/pdf

Date Digital

2008

Resource Identifier

TranscriptDisc_002

Relation

From the Rosetta Kamlowsky interviews collection

Transcript

1
Scooter Radio Program
Rosetta Kamlowsky Tapes
Dick Ludwig, YNP Concessionaire
Interview date: December 20, 1973
Rosetta: Dick Ludwig. What’s happening in the Park. Is there snow?
Dick: Well, I’ll tell you Rosetta, there’s a lot of snow. But before we get into what’s
happening in the park I’d sort of like to let the audience know how much I enjoy being
with you and how special it is because you were the first to come and visit us during the
first season in Yellowstone.
Rosetta: I’m surprised you remember.
Dick: Right there in the park. And it really, really was a pleasure, you’ve been telling
the story since you left, and I can’t tell you how appreciative we are in the park of your
letting your listeners know what’s going on and for that reason as we talked earlier the
invitation is out and I hope you’ll come and bring your new cross country skis and enjoy
them there in the park this winter.
Rosetta: I have cross…
Ron: I’m her cross country skis.
Rosetta: Oh. No, I do have. I had my Christmas present early this year. I have some
new cross country skis and I’ve just been waiting and waiting for them. And I am
coming into the park. This, as I’ve told them, Dick, this had to have been one of the
highlights of my life. The park to me is prettier in the winter time than in the summer.
Dick: Lots of people feel that way. I don’t know that I would agree a hundred percent
but I do know that the winter payoff is spectacular for a park lover. The snow does
things, as you recall, it softens things. The contrasts are super, the wildlife show is
unbelievable, and I think probably more important, the quiet, how deafening the silence
can be in the evening when it’s just wrapped in quiet. I like winter in the park.
Rosetta: Well, it was a change of pace for me. I think of Yellowstone Park as being
active and bustling, but in the winter time it is so soft and so lovely and if you want to
relax. And then, too, if you’re a sports enthusiast, if you like the snow and if you like to
get out and ski and snowshoe and snowmobile, that has to be heaven.
Dick: Oh, I think so, and I think that one of the real plusses that most need to be
reminded about is the fact that Yellowstone doesn’t offer, it is not for the downhill skier,
but rather just about every other kind of winter recreation activity a person can think of.
The cross country skiing, snowmobiling, snowshoeing, falling in the snow, throwing a
snowball, or sightseeing with the big snow coaches. It’s just a very different kind of
winter activity, I think.
2
Rosetta: When did you decide to open the park for the winter time?
Dick: Oh, we’re, right now to be accurate, the park has had a winter activity of sorts
since I believe the mid- 1950s, 1955, something of this type, when the first of the snow
coach expeditions into the park began. One day trips into and out of the park. It
progressed from there to a period during the late 1960s when hotel accommodations were
available in the Mammoth Hot Springs area, Mammoth Hot Springs Hotel. For many
reasons, that didn’t work out. But the program that you have enjoyed and been a part of
and that we’re talking about now first began three seasons ago. We’re entering our third
season now. So the winter of 1971- 72, right. December of 1971 was when we brought
this program that you’re familiar with into existence. That including the Old Faithful
area.
Rosetta: I always thought the park folded in the winter time. I don’t know why, well you
think there’s only Yellowstone Park in the summer time. But let’s talk about the people
who live in the Park year round.
Dick: Oh, yeah. There’s not plenty of people, not lots of people, but there is a small
contingent of park residents who are there all year long. Now in the Old Faithful area,
for example, the National Park Service has a small staff of naturalists, people on hand to
remind us why the park exist in the first place, which is something we tend to forget, the
natural wonders of the park and this sort of thing. So there’s a small contingent of
National Park Service people, all- year residents who winter in the Old Faithful area. Of
course, those who operate our hotel are at home during the winter time in the Old Faithful
area, and then, with our company there are probably, probably about 60 people who are
all- year residents of the park. We make our home in the north end of the park, in the
Mammoth area. And of course, the all- year staff of the National Park Service as well. So
there is a population in the park, probably a number somewhere around, well, I’m
guessing now, but I would imagine about 300 people who are all- year residents of the
park.
Rosetta: And you live in the Mammoth area year round?
Dick: That’s correct.
Rosetta: What do you do there? How do you like living there? Isn’t it kind of isolated?
Dick: Oh, sure, it’s isolated, but I suspect that this is, oh, to use the popular phrase now,
one of the trade- offs that one has to make. The, you know, if you choose to be in this
area, you choose to be there for a reason and it’s beautiful, it’s quiet, it’s a peaceful sort
of place and certainly it’s outdoorsy and I’m very big in the outdoors. I sort of like the
relaxed nature of it when I’m there. And so this is home for me and my family and others
who make a home there, we sort of trade off. And we do without some of the things the
folks in the city have regularly at their disposal. It’s very enjoyable.
3
Rosetta: I, when I took the big snow machine, what do you call it?
Dick: Snow coach.
Rosetta: The big snow coach, or the safari, through the park, we went, someplace, was it
in the canyon area, and there’s a keeper. You have keepers in fact who live at the lodges.
There was a keeper there, a man who lived there year round and I know his job was to get
the snow off the roof.
Dick: Sure. This is really a lot of fun, and it is. The world is made up I guess of
interesting people who enjoy different things and this is one. You were referring to a
fellow who is our winter keeper at Canyon Village Lodge and Cabins, right in the Grand
Canyon of the Yellowstone area. And this is a, he has a very comfortable, very warm,
small cabin and this fellow, that you met, lived alone, and during the daytime would
attend to the buildings themselves. I’m sure you can appreciate the fact the snow load on
roofs and things.
Rosetta: Well, we were like kids. We all jumped out of the snow coach, of course, this
was a group of rangers and so it wasn’t the usual load, and we all jumped out and ran on
the roof, up the roof and tried to help him get the snow off. The poor man. I think he
was glad when we left ( laughter). It was…. what a job!
Dick: He probably was glad when you left, you know, the invasion of privacy. He
chooses to be there alone and a bunch of wild people come charging over the roof.
Anyhow, yeah, it’s a lot of fun.
Rosetta: Now, does each location have an innkeeper or someone who watches over the
buildings?
Dick: Yes.
Rosetta: Because, aren’t all the parks and buildings with sloping roofs, I’m trying to
remember.
Dick: Well, yes and no, but again, going back to your question, each of the major
locations in the park that needs the engineering help does have a winter keeper. This
would be then in the Old Faithful area we have a winter keeper who sees to the buildings
that are not open. The lake area where we have Lake Yellowstone Hotel, Lake Lodge
and Cabins, this sort of thing, has a keeper, and the Canyon Village area. We don’t have
a winter keeper at Mammoth because Mammoth is, this is headquarters and there are
maintenance people who can see what it needs right there.
Rosetta: I remember talking to him, if he didn’t get lonesome, and I said, “ Golly, don’t
you get lonesome?” and he said “ No, I have a lot of friends.” “ Oh, how do they get
here?” “ Well, I have this blue jay who comes to my door every morning….” ( laughter)
“ and sits there and waits for me to let him in.” And he had all the little animals and he
4
was a rather talkative person, I mean, he wasn’t a recluse or someone who was there
hiding out. He was really talking and visited and he was perfectly happy living there
doing what he did. Of course, the snow coach came in every day, made the round every
day, so he did get to see people.
Dick: Oh, yeah. Well, they’re not so remote. There are even personal friends. The
National Park Service has a ranger on duty who is in the lake area and we have a winter
keeper in the lake area and these men have their own small snow mobiles. They enjoy
ski touring and snow shoeing and such, and so we’ll visit back and forth from area to
area. It really is, I’ve gone out on occasion to spend an evening, spend a couple of
evenings, or perhaps a day with these people and it really is fun. It’s good fun.
Rosetta: I didn’t recognize some of those places when I was on, in that snow coach.
Going through the park, when you get off the road and everything is white, I couldn’t
believe we were at some of the areas that we were in. No, this can’t be the Geyser Basin.
I couldn’t believe it. And you have quite a route that those snow coaches travel.
Dick: Yeah, we have, we regularly explore probably somewhere close to 150 miles of
what is, during the summer time, roads. Don’t get me in trouble, by the way Rosetta; you
didn’t get off the trail at all.
Rosetta: I didn’t?
Dick: No, you weren’t off the trail. There are 200 miles of designated trails where we
have to run our machines and where the small snowmobilers have to operate and you
were on them. We explore probably 150 miles of that. We run regularly from three of
the park gates. We come in from Gardiner at the North, Gardiner, Montana, or West
Yellowstone to the West boundary or up from the south coming through Jackson, the
south entrance Jackson, Wyoming. And then operating from those gates regularly to the
Old Faithful area of the park. This is a regular one day excursion by means of our snow
coaches. Then we also operate from the north entrance and/ or from the west entrance, or
from Old Faithful snow lodge in the center of the park to the Grand Canyon of the
Yellowstone. Now by following those routes, people who are familiar with the park
would recognize that they would see such things as the Madison River, Madison
Junction, the Fire Hole River, Fire Hole Canyon, Upper Geyser Basin, Middle Geyser
Basin, Lower Geyser Basin, Norris Geyser Basin, the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone,
Upper Falls, Lower Falls, the distance between the north gate and Norris Junction, Polaris
Springs, the Electric Peak, Swan Lake Flat, the Golden Gate of Yellowstone, and just all
of these places that are so familiar, but in the winter time.
Rosetta: I want to talk more about this tour because that was one of the highlights, but
we’ve been getting calls, Ron. Do you have some questions or is this call going on the
air?
Ron: Yes, right. We have a caller, go ahead please.
5
Caller: Yes. I wonder if you might, is he representing a private company in the park or is
this...?
Ron: Yes. Private company.
Caller: I wonder if he could tell us how to go about getting permits to have private
industry in the park. Does it go on a bid system? Or in other words, they allow just so
much business in the park and who is allowed there. How to you decide which party and
private industry has this privilege? And what, do they pay on a percentage basis of their
profits to the park system, to the government? Or just tell us how private industry gets in
there and so on. Thank you.
Ron: Thank you.
Dick: The question, Rosetta, is an involved question. I hope I can remember all the bits
and pieces and give a factual answer. The first thing I would like to remind listeners is
that I am with Yellowstone Park Company. This is private enterprise operating within
the park and therefore, anything that I have to say should be or can be corrected or can be
commented upon by the National Park Service. The National Park Service is your arm,
it’s my arm, the parks belong to you and me. And the National Park Service, on your
behalf and my behalf, is responsible I think for the administration and the operation of the
park. Now to your listener’s question, historically we can go back to the act of dedication
when Yellowstone National Park was created in 1872, and there we find a section, I can’t
quote it verbatim, but I’m sure I can be accurate. We find a section where the
administrators of the park are charged with the responsibility for setting aside certain
tracks of land within these natural preserves to be used for the provision of visitor
services as may be required. These, this statement plus, plus the, plus time, history,
legislation, resolutions, executive orders, so on, so forth, has developed into what we
refer to in National “ Parkese” as a concession. We operate as a concessionaire by the
grace of the American people through the National Park Service. It is in this way that
private enterprise is permitted within the boundaries of our federal and national and
public preserve. The philosophy being that certain amenities, certain guest services, are
required by certain of the park owners to better enjoy the reason for the park’s existence.
And so, the National Park Service, whether it’s in Yellowstone or Glacier or Grand
Tetons or Grand Canyon or Utah parks or Yosemite, as the case may be, has the authority
to grant to a private concern, if it is in the public interest, the right to operate certain
private enterprise, hotel accommodations, motor transportation, other recreational
activities. And this is what Yellowstone Park Company is. We operate as a
concessionaire, concession granted by the National Park Service. We are for profit,
however, the National Park Service, on behalf of the people who own the park, does have
a good deal to say about what we can charge, about what services we can provide, and in
what way we must provide them. So to that extent we’re perhaps a bit more controlled
than private enterprise might be outside of the National Park. Finally, recalling the
questions, yes, we do operate on a contract, the contract does have a duration, it is open at
the end of a specified period for renegotiation. And this is, that’s about as far as I can go
and comment with any degree of accuracy. I believe an interested party could show
6
interest in acquiring the concession and therefore make it a competitive situation. I’m not
at all sure about that. Oh, and finally, one other point, I think that as far as your listener
is concerned, they can be confident that the National Park Service does take a very
cautious view about expanding business, in other words, to proliferate any number of
small little businesses within the park. I hope that answers the question.
Rosetta: You have been getting calls left and right in the there Ron.
Ron: A caller just called to ask if the buildings belong to the park and if it’s on a bid
system when your contract runs out whether it’s a bid system or how the Forest Service
makes their selection.
Dick: The question with regard to real estate is a tough one to answer. Again, because
the land upon which the structure is built clearly does not belong to anybody but the
American people. That is public land. The capital improvements do belong to the
concessionaire, so long as the concessionaire has the contract. In the event that an
existing concessionaire would pass from the scene, then the replacement concessionaire
would acquire the capital structures and pay the previous concessionaire. So I guess by
that definition we would have to say that the capital structures do belong to the existing
concessionaire, but would pass from concessionaire to concessionaire. What was the
other part of the question, Ron?
Ron: Whether there’s a bid when there’s a concession decided to be opened or when
your contract runs out. Do they take competitive bids, how does the government decide?
Dick: I can only conjecture. I don’t know because I haven’t been through the routine
before, but it’s my understanding that a bid situation could exist if somebody besides the
existing concessionaire was interested in taking over the concessions.
Ron: We have a caller. Go ahead please.
Caller: Yeah. I’m interested in the recreational aspect instead of the business aspect. I
was wondering, we’re going down there New Year’s weekend and I was wondering if
you could give an idea of what the snow is like in the park and if they have any other gas
stops located in the park now for snowmobilers other than Old Faithful?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Caller: And one other thing. Is it possible to take a day’s tour on a snowmobile, private
one, from West Yellowstone over toward the Jackson Hole entrance and back?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Rosetta: All right. The first question was… what was the first question?
Dick: Yeah, no the recreational aspects of the park.
7
Rosetta: The recreational.
Dick: And snowmobiling and this sort of thing.
Rosetta: New Year’s weekend, how about snow?
Dick: Right. First of all, Rosetta, again, I’ve got to try second hand, your listeners will
probably find this difficult to believe but I think I’ve been in the park in the last two
weeks three days. The snow conditions are good. The gates to the park are open now for
operation small snowmobiles, guest services, in particular the fueling situation that your
listener just asked about, don’t begin until the 21st of December. We open our facilities
and services on December 21st which is tomorrow. With respect to the fueling stop, no,
there are no other fueling stops in the snow in the park than in the Old Faithful area.
There is fuel available at gateway communities, of course, West Yellowstone, Gardiner
and to the south. But there are extensive fueling facilities in the Old Faithful area. And
since your listener has asked and since I’m sure a number of people are anticipating it, let
me anticipate a couple of questions. First of all, our service station facilities in the park,
in the Old Faithful area, will abide by the President’s request to conserve fuel by not
selling fuel on Sundays. So your listener and others who are bringing their own small
machines in the park should come along and be welcomed and know that there will be
fuel available six days out of the week. On Sunday we’ll rest. And also if a person is
planning to travel from Helena or your listening area to the park or home again on
Sundays should remember that some 95 percent of the service station operators on the
highways are honoring this Sunday closure. But I hope that answers the question. Oh,
and I don’t recall, I’m sorry but there was some interference what this question was
taking a private trip from….
Rosetta: If there were other accommodations, sleeping accommodations, aside from
what is at Old Faithful, within the park?
Dick: No, there are none. The Old Faithful Snow Lodge and Cabins is the only location
which is open during the winter time to accommodate guests.
Rosetta: Okay. Our line is again open. Ron has some questions phoned in, 442- 6161.
Ron: Okay, one more, a couple more questions. Do you have to pay the federal
government some kind of an extra tax or a percentage of profits for operating, and the
other one is, can you drive your personal vehicle from West Yellowstone to Old Faithful.
Rosetta: Let’s take the first one.
Dick: Question number one I’ll answer only this far, I will answer that yes, Yellowstone
Park Company and any other concessionaire operating within a park does pay a
concessionaire’s fee which is a minimum figure or percentage of profit, whichever is
greater. With regard to the second question the answer is no. All of the roads within the
8
park are snow covered and snow packed. There is no driving of private automobiles
anywhere in the park during the winter time with one exception, and it’s a beautiful
exception incidentally. And that is from Mammoth at the north entrance of the park to
Cooke City which is approximately 55 miles dead east of Mammoth. There is 55 miles
of road through the park maintained and kept open all year because that is the only access
to Cooke City during the winter time. It’s a beautiful drive, incidentally, absolutely
spectacular drive and if people are coming in our direction it gives another day’s activity.
Rosetta: That drive between Bozeman and West Yellowstone is pretty spectacular.
Dick: The Gallatin Canyon.
Rosetta: Yeah, the Gallatin Canyon at this time of the year has to be something else.
And it’s not that, when we went through it, we’ve gone through it before, it’s not all that
dangerous. I mean people, “ Oh, my word,” it isn’t dangerous because if you recall it is
the flat and there aren’t any mountain peaks that you’re going to fall off and it’s just
banks of snow and it’s darn gorgeous.
Dick: Yeah, it can… this is right and most Montanans are accustomed to this kind of
driving, it’s slow driving.
Rosetta: Yes, oh yes.
Dick: But safe, and by the way you’re touching on something which is really dear to my
heart, needless to say Yellowstone is a focal point. But you know, by expanding one’s
outlook a little bit we come with a place with an area we can call Yellowstone Country,
the country surrounding the park that Yellowstone has impact on and now we begin to
take inventory of some of the most fantastic recreation possibilities. The whole Gallatin
Canyon in the winter time is a beautiful place and West Yellowstone being the
snowmobiling capital, as they call themselves, the Snowmobiling Capital of the World,
Targhee National Forest, Gallatin National Forest, Teton National Forest, the Grand
Tetons to the south, over on the east the national forests that surround Yellowstone,
surrounding with Cody and coming up through Red Lodge and these areas. The
recreational possibilities in winter time with Yellowstone as a focal point, but all the
areas around, it is just tremendous. It’s terrific to consider what’s there.
Rosetta: I think we should comment on accommodations in West Yellowstone. Some
people might be curious about what is available to them for a Friday night stay if they
plan to go into the park on Saturday.
Dick: Sure, again, I’m not in a position to give you an accurate inventory, Rosetta, so
much as to say that each winter that I’ve been involved with winter in Yellowstone, the
operation in the community of West Yellowstone has expanded slightly. There are a
number of good motels, motor hotels, operating in West Yellowstone on all- year basis.
Snowmobiles are available for rent and with instruction and guide service in the area, a
full array of services for the small snowmobiler and this sort of thing.
9
Ron: Scooter, go ahead please.
Caller: Yeah, I have a couple of unrelated things. I was wondering who runs the
National Park Service. Somebody called and said something about the Forest Service
which I think is part of the Department of Agriculture, but isn’t the Park Service a
separate entity that’s part of the Department of the Interior? And the other question I
have is what’s the cost of a winter trip to Yellowstone Park?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Rosetta: I heard the first part of the question, but I don’t think I heard the last part.
Ron: What’s the cost of some of the trips through the park.
Rosetta: We’re going to get into that. Okay.
Dick: The National Park Service is an arm of the United States Department of Interior.
And so the government agency or the government, division of the government
responsible for operating national parks is the United States Department of Interior,
Secretary Morton, and he delegates his responsibility to the National Park Service who
operates the national parks per se. And, Rosetta, how do I handle costs. Let me try some
bits and pieces. Let’s try lodging in the park, for example. Choosing a room, two people
sharing a room in our lodge, for example, is right in the Snow Lodge building itself, the
cost is $ 14 per night for the room. If, and I would point out to your listener at this point
that the rooms I’m talking about now in the lodge are very simple, very plain, they’re
comfortable and warm. Bath facilities in the lodge are down the hall rather than in the
room. The cabin accommodations, we have a small number of cabins clustered about the
main lodge building now. That’s new to you, incidentally. The cabins coming into being
for the first time this year, are all heated and have their own private bath facilities, and
two people sharing one of the cabins, cabin rooms, would cost $ 16 a night. Those
figures, by the way, don’t include tax. Tax is four percent on these figures. Nor does it
include meals.
Rosetta: I might add, though, if someone’s “ Oh, my word, I have to go down the hall to
the bathroom,” when I was there I shared the bathroom with Governor Rampton’s wife
( laughter) from Utah. I rode in with the Governor of Utah, if you recall, he was visiting
the park, and Mrs. Rampton and I brushed our teeth together, which is fine.
Dick: Sure. As a matter of fact, I smile at this, you know I travel frequently and on
many occasions am fortunate to take my family along. This involves my wife and three
teenage children and sharing one large motel room and standing in line for the bathroom
gets to be a bit of a hassle. In any event, moving right along now, Rosetta, a person could
plan I think on, oh, budget somewhere around $ 10 a day for food.
Rosetta: Per person.
10
Dick: Excuse me, per person, and enjoy ski touring as a new thing to do, cross country
skiing, for example, half day which involves the skis, the poles, the boots, bindings, and
top notch instructor service, three and a half hours or so for $ 10 per person. Sixteen
dollars for a full day ski touring with all things included and most important, I do focus
on this, instruction; fine instruction to get a person underway and going. Snow coaches
can range from $ 20 to $ 30 per person depending on the gate of entry. It cost about $ 20
round trip to come into and out of the park by means of a snow coach from West
Yellowstone. About $ 25 per person to come in and out through the north gate, and about
$ 32 per person to come in and out through the south gate.
Rosetta: That’s a full day though almost, isn’t it, the snow coach?
Dick: Oh yes.
Rosetta: You’re not just going in there for an hour or so, you’re having quite a tour.
Dick: No, it’s a full day’s activity.
Rosetta: They can have a lunch packed.
Dick: The lunch cost is included in those rates I just quoted.
Rosetta: That’s right. I remember that now. We all had a lunch.
Dick: Right. So these are some approximate costs and they’re individual costs now. The
thing that I think most listeners would be interested in, and for further information along
these lines, the first thing I would do is refer your listeners to their travel agent. For
example last evening I was with the travel agents in Helena talking about our winter
activity and this sort of thing, so these people are qualified and can help to wind your way
through this maze of information, but in any event, package vacations. We have them.
Rosetta: I think we’ll take …
Ron: Speaking of travel agents….
Rosetta: It’s time for me to tell you to call Atlas Travel and talk to Johnette or Betty
about taking the tour into Yellowstone Park, because they have all the information
available for you, Atlas Travel. Find out all the details on this and other places you’d
like to go. What a fabulous Christmas gift, a trip into Yellowstone, really, Atlas Travel in
the First National Bank building. We have a call.
Ron: And if you would rather travel with books…
Rosetta: Oh, well, you can read about Yellowstone Park with books from the Susan Aker
Book Shop. She has books on the history of it, I’m sure, but for this Christmas season
11
some of the things that Susan would like you to know about at the Susan Aker Book
Shop would be a book for someone young. You can have Once Upon a Pond, written by
A. B. Guthrie. Another fun book from the Susan Aker Book Store is Poets’ Surprises,
Poets’ Surprises, which was written by a Helena woman, Ansel Green. It’s a book of
word boners and, well, you’ll find a book there for everyone, Susan Aker Book Shop
located at 29 West Sixth Avenue, opening at 10: 30 and open until 5: 30.
Ron ( to caller): Go ahead please.
Caller: Yes. I’d like to know, we have some young children and would like to take the
trip. What, do they discourage bringing young children?
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Dick: No, as a matter of fact, Rosetta, to the absolute contrary, we definitely don’t
discourage children, I think that the winter activity again recall your visit, the winter
activity in Yellowstone is probably one of the really fine family type destinations. We
don’t discourage children at all. I do think it’s fair that I share my own personal
observation with your listener. You must decide for yourself how much babysitting you
want to do. In short, it’s a recreational kind of visit, it’s an outdoor kind of visit. We find
that youngsters at the age of about four, from four and up, adapt very, very quickly to the
winter recreation activities, the ski touring, the kids are all out enjoying, just bingo. A lot
less inhibitions I think than the older folks have. And of course, the snow coaches are
beautiful for kids. The hatches pop open and the kids can look out through the top and
the hotel accommodations are quite comfortable for youngsters. We encourage family
visits. Now the four- year- old thing is my own arbitrary guideline, looking back on my
own life of bringing up my kids. I think that if you have an 18- month- old child, if you
want to spend your time babysitting, bring them along, it’s delightful. But I think that
you may like the freedom of being able to get away. Four- years- old is a good year, and
by the way, there are children’s rates available. I can’t quote them indiscriminately
because there are a number of governing situations but just for example, let’s try one that
I can quote over the air now. If one was to come into Old Faithful Snow Lodge by snow
coach from West Yellowstone, the adult rate including tax is $ 21.48. A child’s rate is
$ 11.51. So there’s a very substantial reduction in snow coach travel for families and
hotel accommodations can be shared at reasonable costs, this kind of thing. Bring your
kids.
Rosetta: They run around, kids get out and run around, whatever they have to do out
there in the snow. Okay.
Ron: You heard of Rosetta getting lost a time or two in your time, I suppose. Anyway,
she’s been trying to tell where us a spot is on the south end of town.
Rosetta: Oh, I know. Ron, why don’t you tell them? I got calls, did you hear about that.
Ron: Oh, it was bad.
12
Rosetta: Well, I tried to tell everyone how to get to Reeder’s Alley, we’ve had some road
work being done.
Ron: What did you do, say you turn left instead of right?
Rosetta: No. I said you go down Last Chance Gulch. You have to go up Last Chance
Gulch. If you go down Last Chance Gulch you’re going to have a wreck because it’s a
one- way street. So you go up, up? – Last Chance Gulch. Which way is it, Ron? You go
up Last Chance Gulch, I don’t know. Down or up?
Ron: You go south, up. Go up, up.
Rosetta: You go up to Broadway. Then you turn right, and then you go to Park, and then
you turn left and then you’ll find Reeder’s Alley and it’s a two way street there, but go to
Reeder’s Alley for your Christmas shopping. They have unusual gift items and very
inexpensive. J & J Antiques, Alma’s Lamp Shop, the Picturell Gallery and Cabin’s
Creek Trading Company. We have a call.
Ron: Go ahead please.
Caller: I’m Carl Perry ( mumbled) and a gold miner and my mother before she passed
away, she left me a bunch of notes on history. And she said Bill Hitchcock and Calamity
Jane drove the first toll stage into Yellowstone National Park and a surrey with the
tasseled things on top, you know.
Ron: Oh, yeah.
Caller: And Calamity Jane went ahead as a scout, but I don’t know.
Ron: Did you say Calamity Jane?
Caller: Yes. Calamity Jane and Bill Hitchcock.
Ron: With a scout like that I’ve gone anywhere. Thank you for calling. Bye now.
Rosetta: We have only a few minutes left. This week we are… Dick, we have a few
minutes left, and again, our guest has been Dick Ludwig who is with the Yellowstone
Park Company. What would you like to tell them in closing?
Dick: Oh, I think that since you give me the opportunity I’ll take the ball and run. For
those we haven’t really run down the inventory of what is available item by item I think
Rosetta. First of all lodging, lodging in the heart of the park, Old Faithful Snow Lodge
with the lodge rooms, cabin rooms, a nice little dining facility and lounge. Of interest to
the snowmobilers who are familiar with the park this year a brand new snack shop
outside of the main building that will let these people get in and get out quickly so they
13
can go about on their snow machines. The one- day expeditions into and out of the park
by means of our big snow coaches, guided, they’re enclosed, they’re heated; very, very
nice equipment. Small snowmobiler is welcome into the park. There’s fueling facilities
and things of this type available. And of course, one thing that I don’t want to forget is
the interpretive services available by the National Park Service, keeping naturalists on
duty in the heart of the park in the Old Faithful area to help people who appreciate and
understand what’s there. That’s winter in Yellowstone. I again hope that you will take
time to come back and be with us this winter.
Rosetta: I am. I’m coming back. It’s very casual, I think we should tell them, too.
When you go in you take very little, as far as what to wear, warm clothes, bring along
your long underwear and warm socks.
Dick: Good, I’m glad you pointed that out. You are right. Extremely informal.
Rosetta: Don’t bring along a dress, gals. You won’t want to wear it.
Dick: No, no. And wherever we go nowadays we see the sign that says “ shirt and
shoes.” We do suggest trousers as well. ( laughter) In any event, keep your head and
your hands and your feet warm, as well as durable outer wear, and be comfortable in the
park, you’re right.
Rosetta: And eating is very informal.
Dick: Yep. Buffet style.
Rosetta: Good food, too.
Dick: Good food, lots of it, buffet style at breakfast and lunch. Again, something new
for you, Rosetta, sit down service at dinner this year.
Rosetta: Oh, we no longer serve ourselves. That was the first year you were open.
Dick: Since you were there.
Rosetta: And this will be your third winter.
Dick: Third winter.
Rosetta: That’s great. I hope that more people can take advantage of it. They should call
a travel agent to make reservations. How far in advance? The weekends fill up quickly.
Dick: Yeah. Saturday night is historically tight because people coming to visit are local
residents taking a weekend. Saturday night is difficult, but don’t give up. This Christmas
week is going to be very difficult, very tight. As a matter of fact, I’d be surprised if you
could get a reservation between Christmas and New Year’s right now. And
14
Washington’s Birthday looks like it’s going to be quite a go round. Outside of that we
should be able to accommodate most needs. See your travel agent or, well, see your
travel agent to be in touch with Yellowstone Park Company.
Rosetta: Okay. Well, Ron, how are we for time?
Ron: Oh, I’ll give you about 30 seconds do to whatever you would like to do.
Rosetta: Well, thank you very much. Tomorrow is Friday, December the 21st, and we’re
going to have Don Delisky come down, who is a psychologist. We’re going to touch on
little things like the emotionalism of Christmas, and the anxiety that Christmas brings
with it. Christmas is a happy time, but there is another part of Christmas, and we’ll talk
about the fantasies of Christmas, and it’s going to be one of those days when you can see
if you go along with the Christmas scene. And we don’t want to upset anyone but we’ll
just discuss it because we all have these feelings. We get lonely sometimes, and wish we
could be with people we can’t, and this is natural, and mean, Ron is mean, you don’t see
him right now, he’s so mean.
Ron: You should have seen me for the last three or four days!
Rosetta: Oh, yeah. Well, we get very mean here especially in the advertising business,
we’re nearly climbing the walls and we’re so happy when it’s over because it’s a busy
time for all of us. Thank you again, Dick Ludwig, and I’ll see you in the Park, huh.
Dick: I hope so.
Rosetta: With my new cross country skis.
Dick: Hey, by the way, have a happy Christmas.
Rosetta: Same to you.
Dick: And as appropriate for your show tomorrow, remember somebody who’d like to
be thought of.
Rosetta: Oh, how nice. Yeah. Remember that. We’ll see you tomorrow.