Well for a long time my approach to veganism is to remove everything animal related I can from my life. Some times it's hard as, for example there is some equipment of mine that has a tiny leather component that can't be removed (though I am pushing for a fake leather version). Also if it's a choice between leather or wool, I'll take wool. I know the implications of that but some times choices aren't all easy. You could say that I could choose neither but there is some equipment and items that I can't not use such as padded protective equipment and so on.

This brings me on to something else I've been thinking about. I don't use honey as it just seemed a matter of course when becoming a vegan. I was wondering what other people thing of insect related products such as honey?

Its a difficult one, I study animals accademically and one thing I know for sure is that bees are on the decline, drastically. People around the world and especially the UK are making hives to attract and keep bees as a way of increasing population numbers, as a side product there is lots of honey which the keepers sell. My point here is, the honey trade is actually paying for people to conserve and protect the global bee population.. Strange. I avoid it but mainly because its insect vomit.

klaatu21 wrote:sensai ross, forgive me for doubting you and myself

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:There's only one thing I'm riding at 6am, and it's not a bike!

vegan_rossco wrote:Its a difficult one, I study animals accademically and one thing I know for sure is that bees are on the decline, drastically. People around the world and especially the UK are making hives to attract and keep bees as a way of increasing population numbers, as a side product there is lots of honey which the keepers sell. My point here is, the honey trade is actually paying for people to conserve and protect the global bee population.. Strange. I avoid it but mainly because its insect vomit.

Actually I know. I was going to be a vet but bad eyesight made me finish off with animal health and welfare though I still study animals. The insect population is affecting the bat population (which I study).

The British bee has been practically extinct since 1930 if I'm correct? We're actually using African bees now?

vegan_rossco wrote:Its a difficult one, I study animals accademically and one thing I know for sure is that bees are on the decline, drastically. People around the world and especially the UK are making hives to attract and keep bees as a way of increasing population numbers, as a side product there is lots of honey which the keepers sell. My point here is, the honey trade is actually paying for people to conserve and protect the global bee population.. Strange. I avoid it but mainly because its insect vomit.

Actually I know. I was going to be a vet but bad eyesight made me finish off with animal health and welfare though I still study animals. The insect population is affecting the bat population (which I study).

The British bee has been practically extinct since 1930 if I'm correct? We're actually using African bees now?

Cool! I work at a bat hospital on the isle of wight, look us up Yeah african bees are used most of the time now, its worth looking into which honey comes from british 'urban bees' I can only imagine its only available very locally

klaatu21 wrote:sensai ross, forgive me for doubting you and myself

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:There's only one thing I'm riding at 6am, and it's not a bike!

vegan_rossco wrote:Its a difficult one, I study animals accademically and one thing I know for sure is that bees are on the decline, drastically. People around the world and especially the UK are making hives to attract and keep bees as a way of increasing population numbers, as a side product there is lots of honey which the keepers sell. My point here is, the honey trade is actually paying for people to conserve and protect the global bee population.. Strange. I avoid it but mainly because its insect vomit.

Actually I know. I was going to be a vet but bad eyesight made me finish off with animal health and welfare though I still study animals. The insect population is affecting the bat population (which I study).

The British bee has been practically extinct since 1930 if I'm correct? We're actually using African bees now?

Cool! I work at a bat hospital on the isle of wight, look us up Yeah african bees are used most of the time now, its worth looking into which honey comes from british 'urban bees' I can only imagine its only available very locally

Oh I did some studying with the bat conservation trust. I want to work hands on but there were very little opportunities. And I do pop over to the Isles as I'm just outside Portsmouth

vegan_rossco wrote:Its a difficult one, I study animals accademically and one thing I know for sure is that bees are on the decline, drastically. People around the world and especially the UK are making hives to attract and keep bees as a way of increasing population numbers, as a side product there is lots of honey which the keepers sell. My point here is, the honey trade is actually paying for people to conserve and protect the global bee population.. Strange. I avoid it but mainly because its insect vomit.

That's the way I initially looked at it as well, and for the longest time I told myself that it was okay to eat it. In all my years of veganism I have never purchased honey or looked for something with honey, but if it was a bi-product in something and the only thing keeping it from being vegan, I would eat it.

But then a few years ago, I was told that the bees kept in these farms actually have no positive impact on the global bee population, as they are completely dependent on these farms. Not to mention the amount of death involved in keeping these farms active. Do you have any literature on this, as I am definitely interested in reading something from that side of it.

Factory style Honey farms don't have a possitive impact on the active global bee population its "urban bee keppers" that I'm refering to, I only know of there existance in the UK and haven't looked beyond that, there are no unecessary deaths because its simply constructing hives and oppurtunitys for bees and replacing any taken honey with nectar or any other sugar based product. The same groups making urban hives are also paying out a good deal of money in campaigns to get people to grow more flowers on there property to encourage bees, so in cases like this its difficult to decide whether or not to boycott a product, like I said before I don't touch it not only because its insect vomit...but also because its difficult to garauntee where its sourced, I'll have a look round college today for some books on the subject and will post links to some sites on here

klaatu21 wrote:sensai ross, forgive me for doubting you and myself

Mini Forklift Ⓥ wrote:There's only one thing I'm riding at 6am, and it's not a bike!

Bees are farmed to pollinate most of the agricultural crops we eat, especially sunflower, canola etc visit these farms and see hives along the fence every 100 or so meters. They have a negative impact on Australian native bees in areas where these crops are farmed, but the native bees still thrive in harsher areas where there are no agricultural crops.