Actually, I remain absolutely baffled that I don't see more mags out there. I always have felt that way. I always get 'ohhhs' and 'ahhhs' when I break out my mag, yet people don't use them. Why? They seem to have one of the best designs. You certainly would have trouble beating the support! And the quality is amazing. There are very few downsides to mags.

So why don't people use them?

Because, well, people are stupid, in many ways. They don't buy markers because they are the best and will be the best for years. They buy them cause they are 'new' and 'cool' and look great. From what I can see, the common style is to buy a new marker at least once a year. That said, why would you buy a mag? They last too damned long! The technology is nearly perfect in them. You don't need to tinker, you don't need to upgrade. In short, people with mags spend too much time, well, playing paintball, instead of tinkering on the sidelines. And that's what most people REALLY want to do.

Jamie

07-29-2003, 04:28 PM

Wooosh87

Quote:

Originally posted by AGD Ok I am going to respond to Woosh because I think he has some valid points but I would like to clarify.
AGD

Tom, thank you for responding personally to my post. That is why I like you and your company. You have taken a very personal approach with your customers. That is your strong point. No other company can claim that they are as involved with their customers as AGD is. I applaude you for that, and thank you for valuing my opinion enough to respond to it.

07-29-2003, 04:44 PM

Wooosh87

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget
They might still have a 'boring' image to those outside of AO,

Gadget, that is my point. If your not on the inside, then you just don't know. AGD does have great products and world class support, but it doesn't reach out beyond the inner circle. Sure you can use all that "cult" stuff, but is that really just another term for customer loyalty? Why not try and bring in more customers by simple advertising is all I was after. Does having a huge semi trailer at the big events make one company better then another? No. Does it draw attention to your product line? Yes. I would simply like to see AGD step up to the big leagues with advertising. They have the products to back themselfs up.

07-29-2003, 04:58 PM

Wooosh87

Quote:

Originally posted by Adrenaline0520 What I would like to share is that AGD is a quality company with some of the most highest quality products even though they can take a long time to make;), but that just goes to show that hey care about customers and their quality service in what they make. The E-mag is far from being outdated and here are the reasons why:

1. It is one of the FASTEST guns on the market( RT valve still has highest recharge rate and who was the first to come up with Reactive and Magnetic Trigger, AGD)

2. The LVL 10 has solved the problem of breaking paint so why need a low pressure gun when that was mainly the reason for having low pressure(other than gas efficiency, except the old school Shocker which was one of the worse gas hogs in history), LVL 10 has solved that and is purely mechanical!

3. Now because of ULE, the mag is one of the lightest paintball markers on the market.

4. Durability and Reliability, mags are the most durable gun I have known in my five years of playing paintball.

5. Mags may not be the most efficient but by far are still very efficient guns on gas efficiency.

6. The E/X-mag can turn into an old school RT for us who are Old School:)

7. CUSTOMER SERVICE, this is where I was single handedly proven wrong, thanks to Tom my faith in AGD's customer service hit the roof, they have one, if not the best customer service in the paintball industry period.

So please prove me wrong if you can by the reasons I have given alone that AGD is being outdated, You can't.

Absolutly correct on every point made. Only problem is that if you do not know about all of this, you will not buy the prouct. AGD does have everything you have listed above, and more. But without advertising to the general paintball population, you will be left behind. All of us here at AO know about the great things that AGD offers, but does that outsider who is looking to purchase a highend electro marker know about the E Mag or X Mag? He may have heard about it, but has not seen any advertisement to make him think about the product. You can have the best product on the market, but if you don't know about it, you will not buy it.

07-29-2003, 05:18 PM

Vendetta

May be its because I'm an artist and avoid the "mainstream" like poison, but I love the fact that at most fields I'm the only Mag. :cool:

07-29-2003, 05:26 PM

RRfireblade

Quote:

Originally posted by cphilip
Well I know what your trying to say. But what I am trying to point out is that its not a majic bullet for all applications. It has its drawbacks in certain applications. And so it cannot be assumed that lower means better. It can in some instances make some possitive things happen while resulting in some negatives. As can higher pressure. What is right for the RT valve may not be right for some other maker. So just trying to make a RT valve operate at a lower pressure may not result in any gains in the primary areas the RT was designed to excell in. It may worsen some of them and all jut to say you lowered the business end of the valve to operate at 100 psi less. And to take the tank down another 200 psi. I do not think those are significant things to strive for. I want my Mag to shoot fast and recharge to keep up with shooting fast. Thats primary to me over what it shoots down to in the tank or what I can tell my buddy about its "operating pressure".

But in the end its better because we retain ROF at the same time. Which do you prefer? You cannot always have everything so you have to chose. [/B]

Just to play devils advocate,
#1- R/T recharge rate ~26-30 bps
#2- Emag cap= 16 on most i believe if not all(20-22 X-Mag/SFL?)
#3- assumed average of fastest fingers in the west ~18bps

How about sacrificing "some recharge for "some more" efficiency?

Some would be good.

I scuba so I could give a crap but for some......

Jay.

07-30-2003, 08:23 AM

JEDI

Quote:

Originally posted by RRfireblade

How about sacrificing "some recharge for "some more" efficiency?

Some would be good.

I scuba so I could give a crap but for some......

Jay.

Right... Phil, this is a bit of what I'm talking about. Touting the fasted recharge rate is respectable, but a lot of other guns perform very well, with out the near perfection stats of a mag. It is a decision of what you want to give up based on what you want to achieve, but it almost sounds as if you're saying no other gun performs well without some huge disadvantage. I'm not quoting you. But it does sound that way. Why wouldn't AGD give up some recharge rate, being that it can't be reached (by human fingers) any way, for a little more efficiency?

07-30-2003, 08:47 AM

Albinonewt

Quote:

Originally posted by Prairie But speed wise, and trigger wise it isnt exactly a favorable electro...you definetly see many more intimidators and impulses at the field than emags.

Yeah but Compaq is one of the most popular PC's and McDonald's is the number 1 fast food restaurant.

Being popular isn't the same as being the best.

07-30-2003, 06:35 PM

Lohman446

I paused after writing this post and thinking about it some more, and have decided to post it - please note that I am very new to regularly playing paintball (I started the end of May and have not missed a weekend yet - I played a bit, but not enough to know anything before then). What I am going to post as my reasons to buy a mag, my considerations, my beleifs are exactly that, and I know now that many of them were wrong. But we are looking to sell markers and looking at those buying them...

Why I bought a mag - when I was looking into markers I instantly classed guns into tournament level markers and non-tournament level markers. I thought at first I would buy a beginners marker. My choices seemed to be Spyders and Tippmans. When I thought of other markers I thought of cockers, angels, and mags (this was with minimal research into markers). I classified all of these as tournament level and out of my range.

Between Spyder and Tippman, I noted that the Spyders had more option, but the Tippman had this flatline barrel system. I don't care if it works or not, at the time I beleived it did. I settled on buying a Tippman because I felt it was more reliable, and all the write ups the Tippman factory team did not hurt anything.

I did decide however, that I would buy a tournament level gun - and got hold of a smart-mag. Why did I buy a mag. My beleifs on this at the time - cockers were a "better" gun, but had a maintenance issues. I beleived Angels were out of my price range. A mag, well not necessarily as good, was a tournament level gun with little maintenance issues. In fact I had heard the idea "run them over with a truck" "throw them in water for a week" - the same things I had heard about the durability of a tippman.

Now - with a smart mag, a classic mag with X valve and ULE body I beleive that my mag can compete with any gun out there. But there were steps to get there.

What I think - based on my own inexperienced buying experience - could help AGD sell mags.

A new package, a rename of the 68 with powerfeed to "Tournament Classic" This brings up its rich history, immediatly labels it as a tournament level gun (is it or not is not an issue I am concerned with - it can be used competitively in tournaments). Make this a ready to shoot package - at least gun and barrel (and perhaps a "name" barrel, CP for instance). I have no idea on prices that it costs AGD to make or what they could buy things for. But if you could put together a package (hopper, 48/3000 HPA system, barrel, gun) and sell it in the sub $400 level ready to shoot, I beleive it would sell. Sell the gun and barrel alone in the $250 to $300 range - I think it could be done

Next, sell this tournament classic - market the thing. Make it a big deal in the national magazines - perhaps a tag line "The Mag you can afford to own". The new players, the entry level marker category - would buy this. This is the market to target - we know that Tippman, Kingman, and Brass Eagle are the dominant players in the paintball game - show me there high level equipment (maybe Tippman has it, but it is not there big sellers). The mag has to be made popular in the "paintball news" again, not just on AO. AO is great, but it had no bearing in my decision to buy a mag, did not know about it then. These are my thoughts on the subject, whether they are wanted or not, they are out there now.

07-30-2003, 09:00 PM

Jerhew

seems that a lot of us feel that the only major problem AGD has to address is marketing.

yes there are plenty of minor tweaks here and there in the product line...
but then...that's to be expected with any company...

I imagine AGD just doesn't have the resources to put toward marketing(mainly i feel this is because they have the best r&d in paintball...)

actually when people say that the design is old
i just have to laugh...
the rt/retro/x-valve is absolute engineering genius...
anyone who doubts this needs to take a look at a diagram or something and see how it actually works

07-30-2003, 09:06 PM

Lohman446

Maybe... not to try to say what I said earlier is not an idea... but maybe we are all missing the point.

Maybe Tom has decided that AGD is selling what he wants to - the profit is within what he deems acceptable. Maybe his love is R&D and selling more markers just does not interest him. Just a thought, but look at what Tom has now - he has a cult icon status, a loyal following, and I suspect a pretty level cash flow. Maybe he has decided AGD now - the most scientifically backed paintball manufacturer there is (I think) is exactly as he wants it now. Yes, we would all like to see AGD be some awe inspiring company, but maybe TK does not want the headaches that would go with selling a million markers a year (or whatever some great # would be)

07-30-2003, 09:13 PM

Jerhew

perhaps he's satisified...
it's always a possibility
personally i'd just like to see more people around here with em
but i wouldn't want to sacrifice quality for quantity...and i know Tom wouldn't either

sometimes i just worry that such an awesome company might someday decide that they just aren't making the money and give up
and that'd be a sad day:(

07-31-2003, 07:41 AM

cledford

Quote:

Originally posted by Lohman446 A new package, a rename of the 68 with powerfeed to "Tournament Classic" This brings up its rich history, immediatly labels it as a tournament level gun

This is one of the BEST ideas I've seen!!!! I think that for the younger players not around during the "golden days" of the mag and cocker wars this would be a great way to tie AGD's rich pro level history into the present day.

-Calvin

07-31-2003, 09:30 AM

Vendetta

Sometimes all you need is to rename your product.

07-31-2003, 10:56 AM

mistwolf

I don't overly want more people using mags. I don't want less, and I don't care if there are more. It just confuses me that there aren't more, because the quality is amazing...