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Howie Mencken

“…I continue to be amazed that people who are unknown to me have information about my expertise…”

Once we start voting by more modern (online?) techniques; somebodys (particularly gov’mnt and market research somebodys) will know all about everything. Our names, how we voted as well as our expertise. Exciting isn’t it?

Toni, we may sit on different sides of Measure T and a few other things, but you hit the nail on the head about WB. I got a good belly laugh over your description of life in West Berkeley.

The Sharkey

Middle aged, but I am a fella.

No friends who work in development or construction though.

My only self-interests in terms of Berkeley development is that of a homeowner who hopes that increased tax revenue from new properties and successful local businesses might give the city sufficient funds to do things like fixing our roads without having to float bonds and add more parcel taxes.

The Sharkey

I’m curious, how does wanting to see downtown cleaned up and West Berkeley rezoned so that local businesses will have more opportunities equate with saying “To hell with the rest of the world!”

The definition of “troll” has changed a bit since Peer Gynt was written.

Sharkey, are you really a young man? You might be a young woman, or an old one I guess. But Toni got you figured out. I am waiting for the Lady from Berkeley Daily Planet, forgot her name, to take guesses on who you are, what you are hiding, and what suspicious self-interests you have. But don’t worry, I believe, that just like Toni, you are a real person. Do you also have greedy developers as friends? Have you read Ibsen?

Florida sold off most of the electronic voting machines used in the 2000 election. A few went to the Vatican when they elected a new Pope – which is why, on the first round, the new Pope was George W. Bush.

Guesterino

Yup. San Francisco is (or used to be) the City That Knows How; Berkeley is the City That Knows How You Should Vote, Eat, Plant Your Garden, Do Your Job, Have Sex, and Raise Your Kids.

guest

Yes. I vote in every election.

Toni M.

Time to read Ibsen, young man, specifically Act 5 of Peer Gynt, his conversation with the Old Man, sometimes called the Troll King. The hallmark of trolldom is believing “To hell with the rest of the world!” Time to crawl out of your troll hole, man up and be a real person, which is what Peer Gynt must do . “Where was my self, my true self? The self that bore God’s stamp on its brow?” It’s not your opinions that I don’t like but hiding your interests under a false identity. Until then, I can’t have a dialogue with you because I’m not part of a crowd or a crew. I’m a person, and some of my best friends are greedy developers.

Joshua A

Do you have some expertise in voting systems? Now would be the time to share it.

guest

“A person who has no expertise in the area calling the work of others
pathetic, convinced he has some greater knowledge or solution.”

I continue to be amazed that people who are unknown to me have information about my expertise.

Yes, the comment is very Berkeley in the sense that Berkeley is a place where people traditionally have thought and acted “outside the box.” In this case, the box that I want out of is the stifling enclosure in which I was asked to vote. I’m sure that those who boast of their decades of experience in government want no change so they can still be the experts. But government at all levels ought at least to employ semi-modern techniques.

As to your attempt at an insult, election officials in Florida say they are doing their job (but haven’t declared a winner in the Presidential election) and also that they need to figure out why there were long lines of people waiting to vote – even at 1:30 AM on Wednesday. {Shudder.}

The Sharkey

Having an opinion you don’t like doesn’t make me a troll.

What’s the last major development project or zoning change that the Daily Planet crew supported? I suppose we could call them anti-change, if you prefer?

Biker 94702

Destroy West Berkeley.

Go Go Godzilla!

Toni M.

You’re a regular troll.

Toni M.

I heard “top down” process at the City Council hearings but not “greedy developers.” Now that the APIP DEIR is out, I won’t have time to review 15 hours of videos to win a straw man argument.

The Sharkey

I have to agree. What I’ve heard against T is just the same old anti-growth attitude trying to make itself seem like something else. The fact that all the regular anti-growth activists in Berkeley were out beating the anti-T drum just confirms it.

Gus

Oh, please. If I had a thin dime for every time I heard “greedy developers” and “a top-down process that did not include stakeholders,” I’d buy Doug Hert’s property myself and turn it into a park.

joshua a

Sigh. Dear Guest, I’m sure if you ran the Registrar’s office it would have all been done in 24 hours. Unfortunately, we are stuck with some bozo who actually wants people to make sure the ballots are legitimate. There is something so Berkeley about this comment. A person who has no expertise in the area calling the work of others pathetic, convinced he has some greater knowledge or solution. Sigh.

Toni M.

Thanks Paul but please no thrashing. Life in West Berkeley is a masochists’ paradise; it never stops, one thing after another.

guest

Nate has numbers–we don’t.

Toni M.

Gus, let’s wait until the vote is certified. Then the Measure T vote can be analyzed by precincts on a rational basis. I’ve been active in the West Berkeley Project since the tour of 2008 and never heard rhetoric like “rapacious capitalists” or engaged in scare-mongering. If you had attended the planning commission and city council meetings where the zoning changes were discussed, you would not have heard anti-growth attitudes but more nuanced concerns of neighbors and business owners who have life investments at stake.

Gus

Nice work!

Gus

Also blows a hole in the myth that redevelopment in West Berkeley is being pushed by a handful of rapacious capitalists and crooked politicians against the clear wishes of the community. I think we already knew that Berkeley has some very active and vocal anti-growth activists. The fact that their incessant scare-mongering failed to convince at least half the population is significant.

I agree with Toni on this one. Measure T is basically for guidance, to see if there’s popular support for upzoning in West Berkeley. Without a clear majority on one side or the other, we’re still in for a good thrash over Peerless Greens and other proposals that might follow.

Chamelean75

I hope Measure T and S pass.

PragmaticProgressive

Given the many, many problems with securing those connections, I’m actually relieved that it’s not done online in any way.

Toni M.

Hi Ira,
It’s not a huge deal if Measure T passes or not by ten or a hundred or even a thousand votes. It’s close, and that’s what counts. Both Measure S and T show a divided city. If Measure T failed, I believe that the Council could still legally pass the ordinance, an unfinished revision of the master use permit section of the zoning code. The benefits and the Aquatic Park zoning are still on the table, in process. Even if T passes, its not cast in stone because it has a section 4 that allows repeal or amendment by the City Council without a vote of the people. Measure T was put on the ballot to pre-empt a referendum, and it succeeded in doing that. But it was also intended to elicit support from a large majority, like Measure R, and it has failed to do that. Yes or no, it’s unfinished, and there’s no rest for the weary.

guest

Am I the only person reading this and thinking how pathetic it is that it takes this long to count ballots in an age when so many of us are “connected” all of the time?

Guest

Well, that didn’t work. Sorry. I’ve posted another version with the chart as an attached picture. Hope the moderators will approve it, and delete the screwed up version above.

As an ex-county employee – I can verify that last. Some of them get “borrowed” from other departments (and are supervised by the ROV staff) but it’s all employees at that point.

Gus

Oh, I wouldn’t put any money on it, definitely not. The numbers so far are way too small to generalize from. As I said, cautiously optimistic. The only thing I would would say for certain is that it’s not going to be decided tomorrow.

Gus

To tell you the truth, I voted against S, so I haven’t been paying as close attention.

serkes

One vote does make a difference!

I’m curious – though I could look it up, what happens if there’s an exact tie? I’d guess that if the measure doesn’t have a majority, it doesn’t pass … but I’m sure someone knows for sure.

Ira

guest

This is plausible, but I’m not sure the assumptions are sound. We should expect a lower voter turnout than in 2008, so it’s probably fewer than 20,000 remaining. Additionally, there aren’t that many cases when the total absentee vote is radically different from the vote at the polling location. Measure R was, for all intents and purposes, the same at the polls and in the absentees. It seems very probable that the votes that have been counted so far are skewed Pro-T (by happenstance), given the degree to which they vary from the polling booth. I think it’s likely that the overall absentee vote will be much closer. This closed close on Election Day. It’s probably going to stay close until the bitter end.

Sorry PragmaticProgressive, that was me (Eileen). I didn’t mean incredible as in “not credible” but as in “amazing, extraordinary!” The numbers may change to favor No on T, but for a moment, I want to enjoy that there is a possiblity that Yes on T will still pass.

Gordonwozniak

Because with absentee ballots, the county has to first verify the signature and and before the ballot can be counted. Verifying the signature can take a while, since they have to call up the one on file on a computer screen and make a visual comparison. On election day, all of the voters were verified by thousands of volunteer poll workers and the ballots were counted en masse. After the election, there are probably only a hundred or so county employees verifying and counting ballots.

Jeff Johnson

Don’t apologize about the math calculations. Apparently Nate Silver has made math cool!

Guest

Wow. Thanks Gus. That’s really interesting. So, if those numbers and percentages are right and hold up throughout, it looks like the “Yes” side on Measure T should gain something like another 1,500 or so votes by the time all is said and done. Is that correct?

I’d be interested in a similar analysis on Measure S, if you’ve got it handy…

Toni M.

Lance,
The voter turnout in Alameda County is predicted to have been significantly lower, as low as 44%, compared to the record turnout of 78% in 2008. If I could figure out how to link on these comments, I would provide. Thanks for help on this.

anon

OK.
Maybe I’m dense, but how is it that they can count so many votes on election day by feeding them into scanners, but then it takes so long to count far less?

We don’t know how many votes left to count. The registrar hasn’t done the breakdown by city of the remaining ballots.

If turnout is similar to four years ago, there are about 16,000 more votes to count for Berkeley by our calculation.

Gus

I hate to reveal my OCD, but I’ve been keeping a running total.

Let’s assume turnout is similar to 2008, when just over 56,000 people voted in the mayoral race. At this point this year, we have a total of 34,768 votes counted in the mayoral race, and 33,279 votes on Measure T. So slightly under 96% of those who voted for mayor also voted for T.

If we assume the remaining ballots will be similar, we should expect that there are about 20,322 votes on Measure T waiting to be counted. In the last two days, we’ve seen a total of 1,648 absentee and mail-in votes added to the election night total. So it’s going to be awhile.

Among those absentees and mail-ins, though, the Yes vote is leading 54.4% to 46.6%. That’s pretty close to the same percentages that were in the initial round of absentees that were counted before the results from polls were in. So, as a supporter, I’m cautiously optimistic.