Comments on: The HOF selection committee wagon circling beginshttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/
ProFootballTalk on NBCSports.comThu, 24 May 2018 19:28:22 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: dietrich43https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1571209
Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:16:24 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1571209Show of hands – how many people would take Lynn Swann or John Stallworth over Cris Carter? And the two are in the HoF, yet Carter can’t get in. Makes no sense.

Lenny Pasta got one thing right – Whitlock is an idiot. And as they say, it takes one to know one!

]]>By: jokendavehttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1571207
Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:15:38 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1571207Isn’t that like saying you can’t have an opinion on Obama because most of us haven’t been president? Many have credible understandings of the sports they cover. Some just get to be too big and become lazy.

Read the whole story. Not as long as they get paid for storys would they have proper creditability. And your wrong about your analogy of Obama, its the wrong analogy because we have a vote when it comes to his contempt for the consitution.. We can replace him. We don’t have a vote when it come to the HOF.

]]>By: httr73https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1571052
Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:34:08 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1571052They need to let HOFers and active players vote. Remove the limit on how many can get in. Each person can select how ever many names they feel valid from a list that’s been whittled down to 15 finalist. If you get at least 75% of he voting members selecting you, then you are in. These guys in the trenches know who is worthy and who is not.
]]>By: bachslunchhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570730
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:15:13 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570730Interestingly enough, one can easily argue that the HoF voters did a good job with the modern era candidates. All five are very worthy choices. The problem with not freeing up the WR logjam is likely to cause problems if it isn’t addressed soon, but I’d be very surprised if Carter/Reed/Brown aren’t elected eventually. I’m not convinced the current system doesn’t by-and-large work at that end.

The big problem here as far as I can see is with the Seniors. Jack Butler was very much deserving and was rightly voted in, but denying Dick Stanfel was yet another “shame on you” moment for the general voting body that also rejected Claude Humphrey a couple years ago while electing the likes of Floyd Little, Emmitt Thomas, and Dick LeBeau. For a change over the last two years, the Senior nominating committee did a good job — it was the rank-and-file electorate that screwed up here re Stanfel.

The three things that would help the process here would be:

–scrap the current Seniors approach. In its place, appoint a committee of football historians who research, nominate, and elect the Seniors, bypassing the current voters entirely. It’s been made abundantly clear that there’s no guarantee the current Senior nominating committee will consistently come up with good candidates, nor that the general voting group has any clue on how to evaluate the worth nominees once presented to them.

–have a separately nominated Coach/Contributor candidate, to be voted on in thumbs up/thumbs down manner as currently happens with the Seniors. This will help ease some of the player logjams.

–make the full voting results public. Voters should be held publicly responsible for their decisions, and bad-quality voters can be more easily screened out if they don’t shape up. A committee member who has an eccentric position (such as happened for years with John Steadman, the Baltimore rep who consistently tanked John Mackey’s candidacy until his behavior was exposed by a fellow city sportswriter and finally relented) would not be able to hide behind a cloak of secrecy. And when a voter decides to vote “no” on a good-quality Senior, they should be prepared to explain their decision.

]]>By: cliffordc05https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570713
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:05:37 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570713I agree that the HOF selection committee but I do not think it is completely off base in its inductees. I simply go to the current crop and suggest that it is not possible to reach a consensus on who should be excluded this year in favor of Parcells, Carter, or one of the other big market favorites.

Carter wouldn’t be such an issue if he was not working for ESPN and Parcells deserves to get in but I am happy it was not in his first year of eligibility.

I personally think that something like the last five classes of inductees should have votes in addition to small changes to the currentl electorate.

]]>By: blackqbwhiterbhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570645
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:29:43 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570645There are lots of guys who get in that I don’t think rise to the level of All-Time Great. Some of these guys are just the latest example of having a wonderful career, usually a long career, being a good guy…..Example- When was the defining moment of Curtis Martin’s career? Emmitt-separated shoulder, over 150 yards. Gale Sayers-6TD’s in one game.John Riggins-4th and 1 in the Super Bowl. See what I mean? If you aren’t a Jet fan, you can’t name a moment like that for Martin, ditto for Vikes fans with Cris Carter.
Another way to look at it-Was a player the best at their position during their era? barry Sanders, marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith were all better than Martin. But hey, someday McNabb WILL get in, despite being behind Brady, Manning, Farve, Rothlisberger, Warner, and Eli……Proves the point-they put people in for more reasons than just numbers, and exclude guys for reasons they shouldn’t also.
]]>By: threedeep1998https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570587
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:02:16 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570587Not taking HOF serious if Curtis Martin gets in before Cris Carter.
]]>By: bobhkhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570563
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:50:27 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570563Why would an athlete *really* care what 44 people who write stuff care.
Isn’t the true reward winning championships.

If the HOF was to really be meaning it should be voted by guys who are in the hall or actually played the game.

]]>By: brazy44https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570512
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:27:23 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570512At a minimum, anyone in the HOF should get a vote. Or change the name to the Writers HOF and let the NFLPA start their own HOF and call it the Players HOF.
]]>By: krashie21https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570462
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:04:55 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570462I’m very happy that PFT is leading the charge on this, because quite simply enough is enough.

But, the process must start with the removal of clearly biased writers like Peter King. He openly flaunts his love of the Packers, Giants, Steelers and (especially) the Patriots.

King’s bitter vendettas against the 1970s Raiders and Cowboys are at the root of the problem and it’s only getting worse as other writers are bringing their own personal agendas to the table.

Reform the process now and remove King and any writer who openly campaigns for/against players.

Make it a mix of coaches and former players and keep guys like King away from it.

]]>By: pickvaynehttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570440
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:53:53 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570440It’s becoming apparent that many of the glaring “omissions” – Parcells, Haley and Carter to be exact – are due to personality concerns and off-the-field problems. It’s as though the voters have experienced a renaissance of thought. If we’re going off of Super Bowl wins, Pro Bowl invites and All Pro designations, Charles Haley stacks up well against Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin. The Pro Football HOF voters are mirroring the voting trends and complaints spelled out by the Baseball HOF voters – that character suddenly means something. But even if there were a paradigm shift in the HOF voters, board and by-laws, any new board members or voters could cop the same attitude about a player’s personality and rap sheet. And what’s to stop a group of holier-than-thou bloggers – not Mike, Gregg & MDS but rather others I’ve read – for holding an even higher standard on personality and conduct?
]]>By: redstar504https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570417
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:39:46 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570417I said this on the Willie Roaf term limit post. The fact that he didn’t make it as a first year guy says all you need to say.

The greatest Tackel in NFL history has to wait?

Unless your a flashy stat guy like a Deion Sanders or a Marshal Faulk your not gonna make it in on the first shot.

Let the media do it and it’s all about the stats and highlights.

Let pleyers and coaches do it that way technique , skil, and knowledge of craft actually mean something

In what world was Tim Brown better than Andre Reed? When Reed retired he had the 3rd most receptions of all-time behind only Jerry Rice and Art Monk. Maybe you don’t remember how good he was, but that Bills offense of the 90’s revolutionized football.

However, they should both be in ahead of Michael Irvin, which was the HOFs biggest miss.

]]>By: jf203https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570353
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:02:41 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570353This “panel” or committee” is a joke..it is not the Pro Football hall of fame..it is the Pro Football “good guys club” or pretty good players club” or “players/coaches that kissed the medias ass’ club

How can any lunatic voter in his right mind think that Cortez Kennedy or Chris Doleman has meant more to the game of Pro Football than Chris Carter, Charles Haley or Bill Parcells….

Too many voters are weak insecure idiots who did not like the way some of these players/coaches treated them..well..Man Up and shut up..and like someone else said….learn the game before your little club decides who gets in..totally BS

And what about Sam Kouvaris, who is on the committee? He’s not even an NFL writer. He’s a sports anchor on a Jacksonville TV station. Why that seat on the committee isn’t covered by the Jaguars beat writer for the Times-Union or CBS writer Pete Prisco (former Times-Union writer and based in Jacksonville) is beyond me.

]]>By: dcommishhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570328
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:56:08 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570328Doesn’t it say “Pro Football Hall of Fame”? Why are there never any players from other “Pro” leagues inducted? Just saying-Doug Flutie – CFL, USFL, and NFL.
]]>By: hystoraclehttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570224
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:30:05 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570224If sportswriters don;t vote then who votes? Sure as hell ain’t the fans. I’ve seen how that goes with all star games. That would be a nightmare.
Players & Coaches? Most players don’t want that responsibility. Can you imagine Gruden with a vote? He would tell everyone they are a Hall of Famer and then just put himself in.
]]>By: hawkforlifehttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570213
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:28:31 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570213Face it, there’s no good solution since all changes to who votes and when as well as the number admitted each time will have either omissions or admissions that don’t please someone.

I always hear about Parcell’s coaching tree as some indication that he was deserving. Well a simple search shows that out of 11 head coaches from his tree only 3 have or had any success. 8 were failures as head coaches to this point. Coaches are recycled so much that it seems ridiculous to say any head coach created good ones or bad ones alone.

Some voters because of age only saw players from the 70’s and later, others saw player from the 50’s and later. How to compare?

Stats lie so unless you see someone how can you vote accurately.

Leave it alone and move on. Celebrate the ones in and hope for your favorites in the future.

]]>By: bcb1999https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570191
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:22:56 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570191I agree that individuals who are elected in to the HOF should have a vote. The Heisman includes past winners in the vote, so why shouldn’t the HOF? Are we afraid of bias towards past teammates? Like the press aren’t biased towards those they covered?
]]>By: kidpresentablehttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570190
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:20:11 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570190“Sorry, but sports writers have NO creditablity when it comes to the HOF. Most of them never played the game.”

Isn’t that like saying you can’t have an opinion on Obama because most of us haven’t been president? Many have credible understandings of the sports they cover. Some just get to be too big and become lazy.

Who’s doing the evaluating each year as to whether a given person is the “the best person actively covering that team to hold the vote” (your words) for each season?

What’s to stop that group from pressuring current or potential vote holders into electing the candidates they want?

The best solution has to involve a lifetime measure to prevent such abuses, but there should be some sort of balance instituted as well.

For example, something like: “a single organzation cannot hold more than 7% of the vote of the membership, otherwise membership must be revoked from the appropriate number of people until compliance with this rule is achieved. Individuals whose membership have been revoked for this purpose may become a non-voting/advisory member”.

Also, I don’t care if a voter who covers some team last year that they represent. As long as they covered the NFL in during a time when the current HOF-eligible players played, that’s ok by me. But I agree they should be somewhat connected to the league within reason.

For example, “if a voting member has not been actively covering the team they are representing in the last 10 years, they may become a non-voting/advisory member, and a qualified voting replacement representing the same team shall be found.”

The reason for the 7 year policy on latter should be that it doesn’t matter whether a voting member covered the team last year or not, no one that was on that team was eligible anyway. There should be some accountability to it, but I’d rather those with votes covered the guys they’re voting on more than I care whether or not they covered the guys last year who aren’t on the ballot at all.

]]>By: childressrulzhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570171
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:16:16 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570171I completely agree! Leaving any authority in the hands of media members would seem to be a really bad decision all the time every time.
]]>By: olskool711https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570164
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:13:06 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570164Sorry,

I regress.

I hadn’t read “larryravor” s comment.

My post should read: “The guys except larry.”

]]>By: rogerbradhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570163
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:11:55 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570163The day after the HOF announcements I posted a comment on the HOF inductions and the sham it has become.

As mentioned earlier in a comments, they are like the Supreme Court. They get lifetime appointments.

The HOF committee should be replaced every 2 years and none allowed to return to the committee for 10 years. I mean every person on the committee replaced every 2 years. No one hanging around from previous committee. Like that there are fresh faces and thoughts every 2 years.

]]>By: olskool711https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570157
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:09:02 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570157The guys who have commented on this thread know a lot more about football than the annointed committe seems to.
]]>By: xxwhodatxxhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570152
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:07:40 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570152It should be a rotating panel, where you don’t get the same ppl voting year in year out.
]]>By: jokendavehttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570138
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:00:32 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570138Sorry, but sports writers have NO creditablity when it comes to the HOF. Most of them never played the game. Or some have an Axe to grind or a story to put out. (Money to be made on their selection) Finding out that these writers pick who goes in, make the HOF a joke. Except for the people in the HOF, they do deserve to be in. I might question some over others but they shouldn’t be picked by some trying to get a story or make one. Should have a seperate enity picked by coaches and players(Past and present) where there is no self intrest to be bought or paid for. NO sportswriter has the creditabilty to pick, I don’t care who they are.
]]>By: jimr10https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570122
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:53:35 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570122Not that my opinion matters much to you , Mike, but keep up the good work. someone has to keep bringing attention to this..again, in my opinion.. no sportswriter should have a vote.
]]>By: funkmasterfish86https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570094
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:42:10 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570094This isnt a football issue, it is a timeless issue about governance. Anytime you have a small committee deciding issues on behalf of everyone, you will have lots of problems: There will be resistance to change, greed by the few, apathy by the general public and outrage by a vocal minority. This is considered an Oligarchy. Now, some oligarchies worked, for example Sparta (Where murder, rape and a lack of anything innovative reigned supreme. The spartan government was set up to RESIST CHANGE). This is similar to what is going on at the HOF. 44 people have the power and some received this power unfairly and have created block votes within it that compromises the selections and diminishes the efficacy of the organization.

Its my opinion, even in private business (which the NFL technically is, although it needs anti-trust status to be considered a legal private business) we should model or institutions with checks and balances. We need to limit power of these former-to-quazi-to-non athletes and make the process more fair, more democratic.

Also, if you dont want to change it too much, do like Mike is saying (and what Julius Caesar did), get more voters (senators)…just be careful Mike, the Belzers of the world are just like the Brutus’ of Caesar’s day; they don’t want their power and status challenged.

]]>By: footballmavenhttps://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/the-hof-selection-committee-wagon-circling-begins/#comment-1570093
Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:41:56 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=233539#comment-1570093Oh so Lenny’s on the committee? Only a matter of time before Todd Pinkston gets in…. but screw Parcells… he’s the reason the Pats lost to Favre in the ’96 SB, and it had nothing to do with the game….selfish SOB, hope ne never gets in…
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