Yes, if accumulation of stats over a long career gets you in, he needs to be in the HOF. I haven't really heard much argument about it, I've just assumed he'd be in on the first ballot, are there people saying he won't get in?

Most relievers are drafted as starters, aren't they? You don't have to draft a reliever to have one, you can convert a starter, or get one via trade or free-agent signing.

Hoffman was a shortstop, just like his brother. Most of the players selected where either starting pitchers or shortstops at some point in the career. Baseball America has said that they are behind the curve when it comes to evaluating college closers. Maybe because too many people hold onto an outdated belief that failed starters make good relievers.

Last season we flipped Matt Capps, a closer who was leading the league in saves and playing out of his mind for Wilson Ramos. Show me an example of a position player leading the league in a major stat or a starting pitcher leading in wins flipped for so little at the trade deadline

Last season we flipped Matt Capps, a closer who was leading the league in saves and playing out of his mind for Wilson Ramos. Show me an example of a position player leading the league in a major stat or a starting pitcher leading in wins flipped for so little at the trade deadline

Saves are a terrible stat and everybody above the age of 3 knows that.