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The failure of EverQuest 2 really saddens me the most.

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Yes, but at least in vanilla WoW (that's what I'm talking about, not the current day stuff), you did have elite areas, in fact I would say that those were very much like the ones in EQ2, except you probably wouldn't be grinding them as much. EQ2 did have far more of an emphasis on them, especially with many bosses also being open world. That was definitely very cool as it gave more of a character to each location. On the other side the real endbosses were camped by guilds.

Heritage quests were also nice, except that they were some of the only quests between all the thousands of other ones that were actually worth doing.

And when the population dropped down deep they weren't doable anymore, many weren't in each case.

I am hoping Everquest Next is a HUGE sandbox world where we can build our own homes, inns, tavens, work shops, towns, including walls and gates, ships and air ships. Farms, raising chickens, pigs, lambs for wool, goats, cows, and fruit, vegetables, grains(wheat, barley, oats etc including rice.) Allow us to build windmills and watermills for grinding flour and making armor/weapons.

WoW had a better world, it was seamless with great zone transitions that EQ2 just never had, I kept suggesting in beta to do something similar to what EQ did when I played it back in the day but SOE obv didn't. I also loved how WoWs instances were built into the world like you had to travel through a cave to get into DMs and it took up real world space, you could even see the rear of DMs from STV. EQ2 on the other hand the instances were always outside of the zone and never felt real.

What I loved about EQ2 however was the feel of the game back then which has since been ruined, it was a very dark and spooky setting and the music was just so good, wish that composer kept doing the music. Also though I'd be grouping all the time in EQ2, I didn't feel lonely like I did in WoW and the content did feel like a grind, the way they presented it was much more atmospheric, however sadly again most of the voice overs are gone. The quests used to have quite some variety too but going back to the game, not only were all the city quests gone because the starter areas have changed, but then were all dotted around in hubs and sent you off to do boring kill 10 rats quests. The old EQ2 dotted the quests around natrually, didn't do that WoW bullshit. The unlock and Armour quests were amazing fun too but they don't seem to be there any more either, probably cause they required grouping lol.

I loved how I could go to The Forest Ruins (I think it was called) or any low level questing area in the cities and I would die over and over, they forced you to group and were hard. You just randomly group up with people who were also waiting outside say the castle bit in The Forest Ruins and try and do the content. However seriously back then you'd die and die and die and end up being hours behind in XP that when you started. I just loved that feeling because progression felt dynamic, it was never one way and it forced you to play well as a group.

I miss running through the world and being scared I might be killed, remember how packed Nek was back in the day? Now it's mostly barren and you can stand there for like half hour before anything your level kills you.

I can play my SK now, hit the same 3 attacks over and over and just tank 10 mobs now and be at full health by the end of it because those 3 attacks heal you as well as do so much damage. If I ever get into trouble (which I don't) I just use Harm Touch, which I can actually use to kill Heroics that I shouldn't be able to touch.

SOE should release one classic server for a laugh, I don't get why they never do this.

I think they tried to take on too much in the beginning. It took them a while to get to a place where the game felt whole. The change in difficulty was largely a response to the player base. Originally the game was actually way too group dependant. Personally I agree that most games make open world content too solo friendly and leave out any actual group content outside of dungeons. I think there should be a nice middle ground so you can solo but hey, I need a friend to get this finished I think.

Well SOE were doing EQ2, SWG and PS at the same time, all the while throwing out expansions for EQ like every 6 months too which started around like 2003 time, so that was probably trying to fund these 3 MMOs they had in development. If you remember Planetside was originally going to be a bigger project but SWG and EQ2 were so far behind and costing money. SOE had to get SWG out first due to a contract with Lucas Arts and the license costing money in itself. So they pulled a load of developers away from PS and put them in SWG and EQ2, so PS released as a smaller project and SWG released early because of agreements with LA. Then after all that SOE needed to get EQ2 out the way, they released an expansion for PS 3 months after launch and with no testing, probably again to try and get some of the costs back.

I think it was a bad time for them where developers were jumping from project to project and it all got too much for them to juggle, so you ended up with 3 lack luster but innovative projects. Then SOE was never really able to bring it all together, they kind of rested for awhile after that, probably trying to restructure and get their focus back after what had been a disaster losing all that ground to WoW also. DCUO came out and while again SOE showed they weren't afraid to change the mold, it was another failure due to a poor UI and lack of content, you could finish the game in 2 days, that is actually true!

I think now SOE has put all their eggs into the F2P basket and really banking on it big. The problem is you need a good product because if a F2P game comes out and isn't good, then people never put money into it and you're more screwed than if you charged the initial box price.

PS2 has come out and who knows how well it is doing, all the servers I'm on are dead and none of my friends liked the game so it isn't a good sign. However if they can pull it back then I'm sure it'll make money, I'm just not interested in it as it doesn't feel like Planetside. Was a big disappointment for me really, we told them in beta what was wrong and again we were ignored and they just released it broken.

Really it's all on EQ Next to deliver the goods, if it doesn't then I'm not sure what SOE have left? They've probably made profit on everything they've done but I really think they need a new CEO, John Smedley might be passionate but he hasn't done a stella job over the years.

I finally got into EQ2 a couple years ago and I thought it was probably the deepest MMO on the market. Lots of small group content and tons of character customization. The fact that there's a bazillion classes doesn't hurt either.

But between the funky graphics engine and the feeling that some gameplay aspects were never polished left me with the feeling that SOE started the game with one overall concept in mind and did(OK, tried) an about face when WoW started open beta testing.

That all said I'm looking forward to the next EQ. I'm interested to see what SOE defines as "sandbox" and if they can launch a game that feels complete this time.

The class system was one of the weakest I thought, you had to play 20 odd levels to see how your class would play out and if you liked it. They then changed it to what it is today but all the classes in each archetype feel rather bland and samey. Where WoWs classes always felt so unique from each other...

I found a lot of people, including myself all suffered from not being able to find a class we liked, trying a few and then quitting. Where as WoW, every class was fun and unique, every person can find a class they instantly like too. I found the class system to be a weak spot but I loved so much more about the game it made up for it.

Wow classes were fun and unique? Well, glad I don't share that opinion. EQ2 has changed a lot, we all know that. And of course people will always bring in this and that about Borecraft. It seems that is the bandwagon these days.

You don't say...

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

Good troll I almost fell out of my chair.....sorry you took so much time to write this troll.

More to the point. If you consider EQ2 a failure then every mmo out in the last 8-9 years has been a Failure.

As many before me stated it's far from it by any means of the word "Failure"

Well pretty much every MMO has been, I don#t see how you could call any of them a success.

God I hate these people who call everything a troll.........

The version of success and failure that people like you use on these forums is world apart from what it really means out of these forums.

On mmorpg.com failure usually means 'the games which fell short on my expectations'. If you are going to use that then yes pretty much every MMOS has been a failure. But the reality outside your little bubble is something else.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."-Luke McKinney

TBH i still believe (even though i don't play it anymore) that EQ2 is one of the best games on the market today. Had SOE been proactive and done even half of the amount of advertising that Blizzard did at launch it would have been immensly more popular of a game than it was.

Really it's all on EQ Next to deliver the goods, if it doesn't then I'm not sure what SOE have left? They've probably made profit on everything they've done but I really think they need a new CEO, John Smedley might be passionate but he hasn't done a stella job over the years.

Smed definitely has many faults but he did 2 good things last year

- he reversed his decision to kill off EQ Mac (even tho EQ Mac is not on the freemium model - its truely ftp)

- he reversed his decision to cram ProSieben down existing SOE players throats

I agree w you that SOE is putting all their eggs in ftp model

I disagree w you that EQNext is all that SOE has left (altho that may be true for you)

Really it's all on EQ Next to deliver the goods, if it doesn't then I'm not sure what SOE have left? They've probably made profit on everything they've done but I really think they need a new CEO, John Smedley might be passionate but he hasn't done a stella job over the years.

Smed definitely has many faults but he did 2 good things last year

- he reversed his decision to kill off EQ Mac (even tho EQ Mac is not on the freemium model - its truely ftp)

- he reversed his decision to cram ProSieben down existing SOE players throats

I agree w you that SOE is putting all their eggs in ftp model

I disagree w you that EQNext is all that SOE has left (altho that may be true for you)

no question that EQNext is their flagship

SOE has a long history of trying different things - that are not EQ

I just don't think John Smedley has the talent to run the company for what is best for the games, he might be good at other things on the business side, I don't know. However every decision SOE has made in terms of where they take their games has been a bad one. See where CCP make bad decisions, they've never done anything to ruin the overall original concept of EVE, it's always stayed the same idea of having an MMO that is a virtual world, one that they plan on running forever.

SOE look at their MMOs as games where they tack on a bit of content, however there is no feeling of them being worlds they need to maintain, they just run them into the ground and move on to the next project, or in many cases move on to the next project and just let the game die out on its own.

They really need to understand that an MMO should be treated as a service they need to maintain, not ignore major parts and just keep adding end game. I don't even know why we have this end game notion anyways, I just want fun things to do in a sandbox, I don't want some gear or or whatever.

EQ2 right now is at the perfect balance of depth with effort vs. reward.

Dying once because someone in your group has downsyndrome and loosing a day's worth of grinding exp will not float anymore.

It has superb questing, dungeons, terrain variety, mob variety and basically everything that makes a game - is superior to WoW and every other MMO.

Combat is a little iffy, but I enjoy having 87 9slot bars full of buttons.

The engine is utterly horrible and ruins every other positive aspect. I don't mind that for the most part the game is horribly ugly but I can't stand it being ugly and running at 20fps on a box that can floor Skyrim with every mod known to man, too.

That said even with it's horrid engine I've played off and on since '07, and everytime I have a great deal of fun until the engine starts to get to me too bad and I leave again in disgust. (Certainly not from a lack of things to do, though.)

The game wasn't the success it could've been because it's taken them awhile to get to where it is now - and the engine is *THAT* bad, which they'll never fix.

I dunno I play a lot of Dayz, you can spend a good hour or two running to your friend, then die and have to do it all over again. Yet it manages to be so fun trying to get to each other because the world is dangerous and you lose all your stuff when you die so you fear death. If you could just spawn right next to each other or warp to each other then grouping together wouldn't have the same impact, it wouldn't feel epic like meeting each other for the first time after an hour.

You don't need to constantly progress to have a good time, for some reason MMOs always feel the need to reward you constantly and players wont do anything that doesn't reward them any more as a result. However again in Dayz, I can log on, die, lose everything I had and it manages to be fun to start over, it's sometimes a relief lol. You're not constantly rewarded to the point when you do find those NVGs or the DMR etc, it feels special and such an epic moment. I don't care about any of the loot in MMOs today, they throw so much at you it becomes boring.

I would just like to be able to play and feel part of a world, where I log on just to be in a virtual world instead of a game where I have a load of quests to do and it feels all about stats, quests, loot etc etc.

I used to log into SWG and chat to people in the Cantina for hours and not do anything but that, it was so fun. I could play SWG Pre CU for like 5 hours a week at times and not really get anything done when playing, however that was fine, I enjoyed being in the world.

MMOs just don't give that any more, their worlds are dead and they've just turned into games.

The only reason I quit playing (again) is the DM. It completely ruins the ladder to max level. More often than not you see people just getting PLs in DM for relatively cheap as opposed to fighting it out to max like in the old days.

While I was able to get a group every 10 levels or so, I mostly soloed as a paladin. They should think about digi-bombing all the content that isn't endgame. Why would anyone in their right mind grind or quest or hell put any effort forth when the good ol' Dungeon Maker is right there to steal any point to those actions. Its an exploit GIVEN to the gamers. I for one will never again play a game that has a feature even remotely comparable to this.

SOE do you not want your adventurers to......adventure?!

Besides that the game has some of the best lore I've ever seen MMOwise and the potential for high-fantasy fun is endless. The potential has sadly been kicked to the curb with the fast food style leveling process now known as the DM.

The only reason I quit playing (again) is the DM. It completely ruins the ladder to max level. More often than not you see people just getting PLs in DM for relatively cheap as opposed to fighting it out to max like in the old days.

what you decribe was a valid issue but the DM pling got a major nerf last Tuesday (1/15)

The only reason I quit playing (again) is the DM. It completely ruins the ladder to max level. More often than not you see people just getting PLs in DM for relatively cheap as opposed to fighting it out to max like in the old days.

what you decribe was a valid issue but the DM pling got a major nerf last Tuesday (1/15)

My biggest gripe about EQ2 is a pet peeve I have about any game that forces you to use combos in combat. So, I hate games like EQ2, AoC and FFXI. I want to use my abilities in any order I please and not feel punished for doing so.

Originally posted by VorthanionMy biggest gripe about EQ2 is a pet peeve I have about any game that forces you to use combos in combat. So, I hate games like EQ2, AoC and FFXI. I want to use my abilities in any order I please and not feel punished for doing so.

Eq2 doesn't force you to use combos. You must be thinking about GW2

You can choose whatever casting order you want. I know I do, no matter what class I play. Now, the min/max people will spout off about optimal rotations for DPS, but those are self-created and based on opinion as well as many variables. There is a ton of freedom there, so I'm not really sure what you are basing your statement on.

Originally posted by VorthanionMy biggest gripe about EQ2 is a pet peeve I have about any game that forces you to use combos in combat. So, I hate games like EQ2, AoC and FFXI. I want to use my abilities in any order I please and not feel punished for doing so.

Eq2 doesn't force you to use combos. You must be thinking about GW2

You can choose whatever casting order you want. I know I do, no matter what class I play. Now, the min/max people will spout off about optimal rotations for DPS, but those are self-created and based on opinion as well as many variables. There is a ton of freedom there, so I'm not really sure what you are basing your statement on.

No, EQ I has no combos, EQ2, definitely does and hunting is based on you using those combos. I know, I played a Fury and I had combos for both damage and healing. Rogues were able to set up combos for groups. You can of course, forego the combos, but you won't do well without them. My Fury started his combos with the Ankh button, that shows up after level 5 or 6. When you press that, a mini window shows up and randomly has you press an attack, debuff or heal button to continue the combo and then another mini window comes up and has you press an attack or heal button for the finisher, once completed, you get a big flashy display as the damage or heal bonus goes off for the completed combo.