Tastyfish wrote:Get's hot is just as dangerous, if you were moving and firing an overcharged heavy weapon then a roll of a '1' becomes 0, which is safe. It's the '2's that get you now.

Except...

Q: Can a dice roll ever be modified to less than 1?A: No. If, after all modifiers have been applied, a diceroll would be less than 1, count that result as a 1.

So it seems shooting our Stealthsuits... even if you have reroll 1's, if you roll natural 2, you don't get the reroll and you die. If you first roll natural 1, you get the reroll, then if you roll 1 or 2, you still die.

This changes the chances of suffering the get's hot from shooting to a -1 modifier unit with rerolls of 1s from 2.78% to 22.22%.

Well... I guess stealthy units will be much much more important in this edition. Aaand airplanes.

Not really, most players just wont overcharge plasma weapons when they have negative modifiers. And we don't have any units that they would need to overcharge against us anyway, as everything that has negative modifiers has a lower toughness value than plasma's strength of 7.

Lechai Skull wrote:Well... I guess stealthy units will be much much more important in this edition. Aaand airplanes.

Not really, most players just wont overcharge plasma weapons when they have negative modifiers. And we don't have any units that they would need to overcharge against us anyway, as everything that has negative modifiers has a lower toughness value than plasma's strength of 7.[/quote]Well Stealth Suits are T4 so S8 would wound them on 2s and have 2 wounds each so multiple damage would be good.

But yes many will just decide to not overcharge. The Skitarii player in my group already realised that advancing and then shooting at my Stealth Suits or Ghostkeel with his Assault Plasma isn't a great option.

Well Stealth Suits are T4 so S8 would wound them on 2s and have 2 wounds each so multiple damage would be good.

But yes many will just decide to not overcharge. The Skitarii player in my group already realised that advancing and then shooting at my Stealth Suits or Ghostkeel with his Assault Plasma isn't a great option.

True, but if it was me, i wouldn't want a 33% chance of killing myself for a 50% chance of 1 shotting a stealth suit. Not a great investment unless i was desperate, or it was strategically critical.

Huh. Just realized that having 5+ markers on a target - assuming no negatives to hit - means you cannot possibly get a result of 1. Granted it's 1/36 normally since you'd reroll 1's, but it's a minor buff.

Or having a VT and firing at something with Fly but not Hard to Hit. VT on CIB suits, or VT+TL on Riptides or Ghostkeels with Ion, looks a little nicer in that light.

Woad wrote:Huh. Just realized that having 5+ markers on a target - assuming no negatives to hit - means you cannot possibly get a result of 1. Granted it's 1/36 normally since you'd reroll 1's, but it's a minor buff.

Or having a VT and firing at something with Fly but not Hard to Hit. VT on CIB suits, or VT+TL on Riptides or Ghostkeels with Ion, looks a little nicer in that light.

Woad wrote:Huh. Just realized that having 5+ markers on a target - assuming no negatives to hit - means you cannot possibly get a result of 1. Granted it's 1/36 normally since you'd reroll 1's, but it's a minor buff.

Or having a VT and firing at something with Fly but not Hard to Hit. VT on CIB suits, or VT+TL on Riptides or Ghostkeels with Ion, looks a little nicer in that light.

yeah, +1 to hit is better than +1BS

So the Razorshark's quad Ion gets a +1 to hit against all non-flyers. Doesn't that mean it can fire it Overcharged without fear of taking a wound? That could be really good.

Not like our overcharge is that devastating anyway. It only causes a single mortal wound instead of just killing the model completely.In return however overcharging rarely actually matters. The Razorshark overcharge is okay and so is the Pathfinder one, but units like Ghostkeel just sacrifice too many shots so it often results in the same damage just with an added risk for the user.

Panzer wrote:Not like our overcharge is that devastating anyway. It only causes a single mortal wound instead of just killing the model completely.In return however overcharging rarely actually matters. The Razorshark overcharge is okay and so is the Pathfinder one, but units like Ghostkeel just sacrifice too many shots so it often results in the same damage just with an added risk for the user.

Well, the Strength change from 7 to 8 changes the to wound from a 5+ to a 4+ on vehicles on a Russ chassis, and from 4+ to 3+ on a Chimera chassis. Add to that the +1 to hit giving us effective BS 3+ and the Razorshark becomes a decent little tank hunter.

Panzer wrote:Not like our overcharge is that devastating anyway. It only causes a single mortal wound instead of just killing the model completely.In return however overcharging rarely actually matters. The Razorshark overcharge is okay and so is the Pathfinder one, but units like Ghostkeel just sacrifice too many shots so it often results in the same damage just with an added risk for the user.

Well, the Strength change from 7 to 8 changes the to wound from a 5+ to a 4+ on vehicles on a Russ chassis, and from 4+ to 3+ on a Chimera chassis. Add to that the +1 to hit giving us effective BS 3+ and the Razorshark becomes a decent little tank hunter.

I know, but exchanging 6 shots for d6 shots (as for the Ghostkeel) really ruins it again. Any weapon where the normal mode has the maximum number of shots of the overcharged mode is very rarely worth overcharging.

QimRas wrote:Well, the Strength change from 7 to 8 changes the to wound from a 5+ to a 4+ on vehicles on a Russ chassis, and from 4+ to 3+ on a Chimera chassis. Add to that the +1 to hit giving us effective BS 3+ and the Razorshark becomes a decent little tank hunter.

I know, but exchanging 6 shots for d6 shots (as for the Ghostkeel) really ruins it again. Any weapon where the normal mode has the maximum number of shots of the overcharged mode is very rarely worth overcharging.

Normal mode is Heavy 4 Str7 AP-1 D1. Overcharged is Heavy d6 Str8 AP-1 Dd3. So basically 50% change to get same or more shots. Admittedly I would have preferred you get 3+1d3, but its not too bad.

QimRas wrote:Well, the Strength change from 7 to 8 changes the to wound from a 5+ to a 4+ on vehicles on a Russ chassis, and from 4+ to 3+ on a Chimera chassis. Add to that the +1 to hit giving us effective BS 3+ and the Razorshark becomes a decent little tank hunter.

I know, but exchanging 6 shots for d6 shots (as for the Ghostkeel) really ruins it again. Any weapon where the normal mode has the maximum number of shots of the overcharged mode is very rarely worth overcharging.

Normal mode is Heavy 4 Str7 AP-1 D1. Overcharged is Heavy d6 Str8 AP-1 Dd3. So basically 50% change to get same or more shots. Admittedly I would have preferred you get 3+1d3, but its not too bad.

You might want to read again to see that i'm talking about Ghostkeel and similar weapons and specifically said that weapons like the one the Razorshark and Pathfinder have are okay to overcharge.

Panzer wrote:You might want to read again to see that i'm talking about Ghostkeel and similar weapons and specifically said that weapons like the one the Razorshark and Pathfinder have are okay to overcharge.

Caught that part. Was specifically talking about the Razershark in this case because the overcharge seems like it could be useful and the bonus to hit non-flyers means we don't have to worry about mortal wounds from it. All together might increase the overall effectiveness of the model.

Panzer wrote:You might want to read again to see that i'm talking about Ghostkeel and similar weapons and specifically said that weapons like the one the Razorshark and Pathfinder have are okay to overcharge.

Caught that part. Was specifically talking about the Razershark in this case because the overcharge seems like it could be useful and the bonus to hit non-flyers means we don't have to worry about mortal wounds from it. All together might increase the overall effectiveness of the model.

Yeah but I wasn't saying overcharging the Razorshark Ion weapon is bad at all so you didn't have to correct me or explain it to me.