<quoted text>Aha, Lol .It's prob because what divides people socially in many European countries is the language. And and education. It's considered vulgar to act loud. Or nouveaurich . The "mistake" the Americans often make in Europe as I see it, is to be very loud. Like: " Hiiiiiiiii, honey how aaaaaare you". I'm not saying it's wrong. It's just not suitable. Ppl are simply too polite to mention it and they'll just avoid ppl. Maybe more in the North. Or polite distance. Black Americans often wait a little before they speak. So they are sometimes treated better. I don't know if that's true for France.

I've not been to France since 1990, and cannot tell whether things have changed, or how much. I do know that we Black Americans were often treated better than our white compatriots. However, one factor was that one seemed to find a broader range of white Americans in France. Most of the Black Americans I met there were artists, entrepreneurs, students, writers, actors, models, etc. Not many folk from the hood unless they were military. Whites, who generally had more money, came from every part of white society except perhaps those too poor to travel. This meant that the French got to see more of our obtuse, Sarah Palin mentality white folk. They didn't get to see--thank heavens!---our Herman Cains. LOL! The Blacks who they saw (except for military folk) tended to be members of what W.E.B Du Bois once called our Talented Tenth. If a few like Reggie (from DC) came up from the hood, they were quite educated BEFORE they landed in Europe; and many of those I met in France could speak and write French. Among white Americans, the "cultured" and uncooth were all thrown together. And it didn't help that this was during the time of Pres. Ronald Reagan, that Grand Doufus of the 1980s. LOL! Some American whites were pretending they were from Canada, so embarrassed were they with the antics of some of their fellow Euro-Americans abroad. Of course, my situation and that of Reggie might have been different if we were FRANCOPHONE Blacks from Mali or Martinique. Worse still if we'd been North Africans (or mistaken, like Angela Davis, for NOrth Africans). Yet while fully aware of this, and indignant about French racism to their homegrown people of color, I can't deny enjoying being in a country in which my color didn't count as a deficit, and my AA culture (especially music) commonly counted as a plus. And to be able to take my mind off of RACE for even one or two months! I'm already thinking of getting back to France once I've straightened out some domestic matters at home.

<quoted text>Many white Americans have an ambivalent attitude toward Europe. In FACT, they are mainly descendants of Europeans as Blacks are mainly descendants of West Africans. But at times some white Americans look upon Europe--the Old World--as corrupt, effete, immoral, decadent, etc. But there's also the tendency to laud Western (often code for "white") civilization as the apex of human achievement. In this context, one may hear paens to the glories of Greece, Rome, the Renaissance, the Enlgihtement, Mozart, Tolstoy, Shakespeare and Descartess. At that point, obviously, the same Europe is being glorified for its brilliance.I think there is an ambivalence in American-=-mainly white American--attitudes toward Europe which can be a bit unhealthy./I tried to explore some of this a few years ago in a thread entitled: "HATING EUROPE: Do White Americans Despise their Ancestral Homeland." But keep in mind that some of the flavor of my comments was in reply to widespread American reactions Europe's refusal to support America's war in Iraq. There were even people talking about boycotting French wines, renaming French fries (which aren't even French) "freedom fries." Or returning to the old WWI practice of calling sauerkraut "liberty cabbage."I don't like sauerkraut much anyway. But I made a point of purchasing extra bottles of French wines, and asking friends for French wines for my birthday when they asked me what I'd like.Naw, I wasn't joining the parade of goosestepping behind the leader and the flag.

The best "sauerkraut" i.e. "choucroute" is ... French by the way.

Not for Summer time indeed but excellent in Winter. For your next visit, I'll try to have you taste a good choucroute. Alsatian white wines are perfect with it like Riesling or Pinot blanc or Pinot gris.

<quoted text>I've not been to France since 1990, and cannot tell whether things have changed, or how much.I do know that we Black Americans were often treated better than our white compatriots. However, one factor was that one seemed to find a broader range of white Americans in France. Most of the Black Americans I met there were artists, entrepreneurs, students, writers, actors, models, etc. Not many folk from the hood unless they were military.Whites, who generally had more money, came from every part of white society except perhaps those too poor to travel. This meant that the French got to see more of our obtuse, Sarah Palin mentality white folk.They didn't get to see--thank heavens!---our Herman Cains. LOL!The Blacks who they saw (except for military folk) tended to be members of what W.E.B Du Bois once called our Talented Tenth. If a few like Reggie (from DC) came up from the hood, they were quite educated BEFORE they landed in Europe; and many of those I met in France could speak and write French.Among white Americans, the "cultured" and uncooth were all thrown together. And it didn't help that this was during the time of Pres. Ronald Reagan, that Grand Doufus of the 1980s. LOL!Some American whites were pretending they were from Canada, so embarrassed were they with the antics of some of their fellow Euro-Americans abroad.Of course, my situation and that of Reggie might have been different if we were FRANCOPHONE Blacks from Mali or Martinique. Worse still if we'd been North Africans (or mistaken, like Angela Davis, for NOrth Africans).Yet while fully aware of this, and indignant about French racism to their homegrown people of color, I can't deny enjoying being in a country in which my color didn't count as a deficit, and my AA culture (especially music) commonly counted as a plus. And to be able to take my mind off of RACE for even one or two months! I'm already thinking of getting back to France once I've straightened out some domestic matters at home.

Sir, you're always le bienvenu and your wife if both are traveling. My AA mentor is practically using the same words as yours during his stays here and harbor exactly the same feelings.

We've been able to hear some prominent jazz players or singers in Paris (not even trying the numerous Summer festivals) he had not been able to see on stage in the US. By chance.

It does not mean that our traditions of welcoming people are not endangered today by the growth of Xenophobic Far Right National Front and on the other hand the lame policy of our so-called Socialists always ready to surrender on the voting rights of non European foreigners.

<quoted text>“White nations”...that term might work for some European countries. But the USA?Must I list the ethnic groups in this country? And who got here when?Natives, Mexicans, blacks... all have been here as long or longer than the whites.You racists have no grip on reality.I am someone who strongly opposes the Islamification of Europe, ok, but in the USA, speaking of “minorities”, it is an entirely different history and dynamic.

<quoted text>Black and white Americans look much more like each other than you think. You've been living together for so long time now. And have a lot in common. Most ppl just see you as Americans. More or less. You'll see black and white Americans living in Europe suddenly getting along very well. Because they have a common cultural background . White Europeans and white Americans is a very ambivalent combination. And we sometimes have verbal fights. We like you, but we also hate you. Lol

In college I used to hang out with about 4-5 Irish students. We got along pretty damn well. I did almost get into a fight in a local Irish pub here with one (not my friend but one of theirs) over some argument coming from differences in our nationalities. But we were also both full of Guinness at the time.

<quoted text>Is that some sort of condemnation? I should get a Congressional Medal of Honor for standing up for freedom.Mexico? Right... Texas, New Mexico, California...Stolen territory.Just like the bloody Araboimperialists stole Israel.

In my experience, MEChA was fighting legitimate battles on campus. They were opposing the various aspects of racism against them which were rampant. That's why I consistently assisted and supported them.

<quoted text>But there's also the tendency to laud Western (often code for "white") civilization as the apex of human achievement. In this context, one may hear paens to the glories of Greece, Rome, the Renaissance, the Enlgihtement, Mozart, Tolstoy, Shakespeare and Descartess. At that point, obviously, the same Europe is being glorified for its brilliance.

Duh, America is an extension of Europe. It's called The West, or the Occident. You read too much into things when you talk about stuff like Americans "hating" Europe, and you do so because you want to.

<quoted text>What about any majority in any nation? Should they expel all minorities? Must every nation be homogeneous ethnically? Why?Your energies are misdirected and in a way which produces only negativity. In other words, you're a racist.

Barry you can call me a racist till the cows come home. I don't care but its making you sound like a parrot. I don't care if nations have a little bit of non White with useful races which are any but blacks lol. Exceptions being nations like my own that already had blacks here ETC. I do care however when immigration is being waged as a soft form of demographic warfare which is the case and its not going to end well.

<quoted text>I've not been to France since 1990, and cannot tell whether things have changed, or how much.I do know that we Black Americans were often treated better than our white compatriots. However, one factor was that one seemed to find a broader range of white Americans in France. Most of the Black Americans I met there were artists, entrepreneurs, students, writers, actors, models, etc. Not many folk from the hood unless they were military.Whites, who generally had more money, came from every part of white society except perhaps those too poor to travel. This meant that the French got to see more of our obtuse, Sarah Palin mentality white folk.They didn't get to see--thank heavens!---our Herman Cains. LOL!The Blacks who they saw (except for military folk) tended to be members of what W.E.B Du Bois once called our Talented Tenth. If a few like Reggie (from DC) came up from the hood, they were quite educated BEFORE they landed in Europe; and many of those I met in France could speak and write French.Among white Americans, the "cultured" and uncooth were all thrown together. And it didn't help that this was during the time of Pres. Ronald Reagan, that Grand Doufus of the 1980s. LOL!Some American whites were pretending they were from Canada, so embarrassed were they with the antics of some of their fellow Euro-Americans abroad.Of course, my situation and that of Reggie might have been different if we were FRANCOPHONE Blacks from Mali or Martinique. Worse still if we'd been North Africans (or mistaken, like Angela Davis, for NOrth Africans).Yet while fully aware of this, and indignant about French racism to their homegrown people of color, I can't deny enjoying being in a country in which my color didn't count as a deficit, and my AA culture (especially music) commonly counted as a plus. And to be able to take my mind off of RACE for even one or two months! I'm already thinking of getting back to France once I've straightened out some domestic matters at home.

<quoted text>Duh, America is an extension of Europe. It's called The West, or the Occident. You read too much into things when you talk about stuff like Americans "hating" Europe, and you do so because you want to.

I don't think Americans hate Europe. But how is America an extension of Europe?

<quoted text>Duh, America is an extension of Europe. It's called The West, or the Occident. You read too much into things when you talk about stuff like Americans "hating" Europe, and you do so because you want to.

"extension of Europe" ? the "West" ?

maybe that is why N.S.A. is so intensely spying anything even our private emails ...

I think it is some more complicated than the prevailing situation in the 1940's to 1980's.

That being said, both similarities and differences are striking for any european visiting the USA for the 1st time and it's not only a question of distance though this contrast in "scale" has deep repercussions.

<quoted text> It need not be an either/or proposition. There will probably always become some private enterprise. Even with my left-of-center convictions, I don't see much objectionable with such enterprises on a human scale. And thanks to our racial exclusion from the mainstream of capitalism (save as superexploited labor), Black private enterprises rarely if ever reach the scale of those corporate monsters which I despise. If you deal honestly and are civic minded, fine.Still I think cooperative endaavors allow for greater democratic particpation of ordinary folk who are not entrepreneurs...ordinary working folk who are able to develop a heightened sense of community precisely because their enterprises are cooperative and requuire participatory democracy in order to work.But like I said, nothing is off the table except exploitation and oppression. We simply must work to alleviate the social misery, poverty, stagnation, social dislocation and alienation which afflicts so much of the MASS of our people, however concealed behind the glitz and glamour of Black celebrities and "our first Black President."

The mass of our people? We all have choices in life to do good and make life financially comfortable. Even poor people can do the same.

<quoted text>Duh, America is an extension of Europe. It's called The West, or the Occident. You read too much into things when you talk about stuff like Americans "hating" Europe, and you do so because you want to.

Se denne video på YouTube:

http://youtu.be/AucsvrC9V68The Swedes and others were slaves too, not born free. My Swedish ancestors knew what whipping, rape and starvation was. They were sent to work at the age of six.

<quoted text>The mass of our people? We all have choices in life to do good and make life financially comfortable. Even poor people can do the same.

Are you sure? This is so simple Maslow. Schoolkid Maslow. That if you don't have proper nutriton ( obesety is a poverty problem in the Western world ). If you don't have access to medicalcare. Can afford medicin. Don't have proper housing. Then you do NOT have a choise . America has 3rd world conditions in some areas. And you make it an individual responsability .

<quoted text>Duh, America is an extension of Europe. It's called The West, or the Occident. You read too much into things when you talk about stuff like Americans "hating" Europe, and you do so because you want to.

And finally I'd like to know if America is an extension of Europe. Is it for the better or the worse?

<quoted text>Duh, America is an extension of Europe. It's called The West, or the Occident. You read too much into things when you talk about stuff like Americans "hating" Europe, and you do so because you want to.

I don't think so. First, the DOMINANT culture in America is European. Need I remind you that the original inhabitants were NOT Europeans? Or that Blacks and Asians originated elsewhere than in Europe. I've done some study of American attitudes towards Europe, and observations of white American attitudes even toward contemporary Europe. And I do find that ambivalence toward Europe that I described.

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