Looking at other Trees/Lines I don't see any problem at all with Lights to T3 then Multiroles T4+ when we have existing examples like German Ta 152 line: T1 Multirole, T2-4 Light, T5-7 Multirole, T8-10 Light again.

One: as I mentioned before I found the early Gloster fighters to be difficult to justify as true MRs but would it perhaps be more feasible to create a German style mini-branch through tier IV with the Gladiator still unlocking both the Hurricane MR and the F.5/34 LF at tier IV, and that would just unlock the Spit? I unfortunately cannot find any way to make a complete and coherent line of Gloster fighters after that point.

Secondly: are the turret fighters really viable for this game? Looking at that line more closely, I worry that the Fairey Fulmar and Firefly are tiered too high, and that to bring them down a tier you have to start eliminating those previous turret fighters. IMO the most logical one would be the Roc as it was meant to be used in tandem with as opposed to replacing the Skua. So it's performance wouldn't really be superior in any way. But even with that, does the Bolton Paul Defiant have a place in this game at all? I'm not convinced it does, so with that said I would see that line go Skua, ... something..., Fulmar, Firefly, Firebrand, and then the DeHaviland fighters. Any thoughts?

They could just give the Skua the Beaufighter treatment: ie top config is same as current except with the quad mg turret added as rear gunner upgrade with only small performance penalty. (historic Beaufighter with that turret had no other armament except 2* 20mm)

They could just give the Skua the Beaufighter treatment: ie top config is same as current except with the quad mg turret added as rear gunner upgrade with only small performance penalty. (historic Beaufighter with that turret had no other armament except 2* 20mm)

Mmmm, I don't know if it would be sensible or balanced to do so. Keep in mind that the Roc has NO forward firing armament, all of its firepower is in that turret. And hybrid-izing the Skua might make it OP with a quad .303 turret that can traverse 360 degrees.

I don't have an answer for that and it isn't up to me. However, 1) the game is under development; 2) turret fighters existed for a time. It is a decision for developers to make. One of my primary goals (with all tech tree projects) has been to provide a context to understand developer decisions. The tech tree manifested here does not have to be 100% accurate to the game, but it should be accurate to actual historical progression as much as possible so that deviations from history are rendered clear and obvious (Ex: absence of Gladiator).

Trophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

I worry that the Fairey Fulmar and Firefly are tiered too high, and that to bring them down a tier you have to start eliminating those previous turret fighters.

Placement at each tier has been determined by historical context (specifications, first flight, service entry, narrative, etc.) as well as by comparison to modules known to exist already in-game.

The Roc for example has a tier VI Boulton-Paul turret.

The Fulmar Mk.II for example has a tier VI Rolls-Royce Merlin engine.

The Firefly for example has a tier VIII Rolls-Royce Griffon engine.

If you are determined to eliminate the turret fighters (in order to pretend that they never existed or never influenced the design conversation) then you will absolutely have difficulty making a cohesive progression.

Trophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

IMO the most logical one would be the Roc as it was meant to be used in tandem with as opposed to replacing the Skua. So it's performance wouldn't really be superior in any way.

The relationship between one tier and the next is not based on simply "this replaced that."

Trophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

does the Bolton Paul Defiant have a place in this game at all? I'm not convinced it does

That is a developer decision and the game is still under development. It is not up to me and I have no interest in making a case for or against its inclusion.

Trophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

so with that said I would see that line go Skua, ... something..., Fulmar, Firefly, Firebrand, and then the DeHaviland fighters. Any thoughts?

That doesn't make sense to me but you are welcome to pursue the idea further if you think it makes sense to you. I recommend looking at it from many different angles to see how it satisfies chronology, specifications, features, etc.

Note that, based on some hints in the historical narrative, that we might actually see De Havilland Vampire as progression from the existing Hawker mini-line. See Frank Halford (engine designer), and notes on use of aircraft in a ground attack role.

Some discussion generated about ultimate tier IV biplanes has given cause to revisit the U.K. tech tree in order to answer the question -- WHERE IS THE GLADIATOR? and how could it get into the game? So, here are some of those possibilities, revisited.

How Gloster Gladiator can fit into the current game:

1. as pre-Hurricane progression -- an opportunity to do this was bypassed in order to have the Hawker Demon and Blackburn Skua as multirole lead-ins to the Hurricane. It could still be done, but let us suppose for sake of argument that it will not, so that other opportunities are rendered clear:

2. as pre-Fulmar progression -- the Gladiator was adapted for carrier duty as the Sea Gladiator and was later replaced by the Fulmar. If that is the favored avenue, then what could it look like?

^ this would mean that an opportunity to progress from through turret fighters (Blackburn Skua --> Blackburn Roc --> Boulton-Paul Defiant) would be eliminated, perhaps in favor of offering them as premiums at a later time.

Q. Can you give us any more information about what planes may make up the later tiers of the Hawker multirole & German bomber lines?
A. The Hawker branch will include the legendary Typhoon and some more advanced modifications of this fighter. The high-tier German bombers branch will include Junkers projects with some very remarkable experimental aircraft that boast impressive speed and powerful bomb loads. Both branches are planned for release this year.

^ This could be an indicator that the Hawker line will lead to Westland Wyvern by way of Hawker P.1030:

"Design of the [Rolls-Royce] Eagle [engine] had begun in 1942 with the aim of producing an engine more powerful than any other then running ... 2,808 cubic inch capacity engine, equivalent to 46 liters, had 2 crankshafts, each driven by 12 sleeve-valved cylinders, turning a 2-stage 2-speed supercharger with inter-coolers at the rear of the engine and, initially, a single propeller shaft at the front. Later ... a new reduction gearbox to turn the 13' diameter 8-bladed contra-rotating propeller was embodied in the Eagle 22 …" (James, 287-288)

Developments of Hawker Tempest (which was originally conceived as "Typhoon II"):

Westland W.34 -- large 'humped' fuselage with cockpit high on top to provide excellent forward view, near-elliptical planform low wing, large fin and rudder; 08/1944 decision made to proceed with Rolls-Royce Eagle engine; broad design established by end of 09/1944 (James, 285-286) -- 4x20mm

Westland Wyvern (FF 12/1946) -- Specification N.11/44 -- protracted development, introduced 05/1953+ -- Meeting 10/02/1944 discussed Mk.I (to be powered by Rolls-Royce Eagle) and Mk.II (to be powered by new RB.39 Clyde propeller-turbine) ... "Forecasts for Clyde deliveries were wildly optimistic. The first was expected to be ready in [12/1945 but in reality not run until 08/05/1945 and not delivered until summer 1948]." (James, 289)

A transition to Westland Wyvern would certainly meet the oft-proclaimed developer demand that new aircraft should diversify gameplay.