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b'sdA punch is thrown.A barb is inflected. A challenge in physical or verbal terms.Now what do you do.What's your move? Are you even part of the fight or does the fight remain in the domain of the offender while you remain strong in whom you are and try to be.Have a good one ; h

Binyamina, Reserve, Cabernet Sauvignon 2008: Dark garnet towards purple with on the nose crushed fresh and ripe forest berries, spices and dark chocolate. Full-bodied with on the palate juicy berries, licorice, mediterranean herbs, cherries and chocolate, with bracing acidity and almost chewy tannins that takes some air to rise and coat the mouth on the long finish. Very good wine and great QPR as I paid 59 shekel (usd 16) about a couple years ago. The following vintages of this wine aren't even close.

Shabbat lunch:

GHW, Gamla, Chardonnay 2008: Very much alive and kicking, a well-made though not complex Chardonnay, refreshing and tasty.

Shiloh Mor 2009 is a favorite wine of mine. It is a blend of Cabernet, Merlot, and Barbera, an unusual mix. It is a big wine with well balanced tannins and flavors. And, it has gone from 69 to 59 shekels and is definitely a value for money.Or Haganuz Gewurtztraminer 2012 is a new white wine. It has the fruity aromas and flavors of the grape with less sweetness than most Gewurtztraminers, more like a Viognier. I enjoyed it, and it's well priced at 59 shekels.

2009 Shirah Thompson Vineyard Syrah- very un-syrah like. Quite vegetal with green olive and bell pepper notes. Not what I was expecting and not a very good match to lamb chops. Ditched it in favor of the Landsman Pinot Noir which was very good. To me the Landsman style is fairly consistent among the three wines- restrained nose, expressive but not ebullient fruit. I think the style works better on the Pinot than the Syrah or the Zin.Tried both the day after and the extra day did nothing for either. I think these are both finish the day you open them wines.

Hi; second time to try the recanati merlot2011 and not disappointed.Tannins are felt and more vanilla and oak than fruit. Also tried Gilgal merlot 2009 and liked it a lot. A bit of chocolate on the long finish. H

Hi Harry,2009 hagafen estate Cab franc &2010 psagot can franc. I liked both equally. The Hagafen was more balanced. The psagot was a little more earthy or gamey. A lot more acidic maybe too. Interesting because I was expecting drastic differences considering the terrain difference. Sam

2011 Capcanes Peraj Petita Rosat: B++/** Delicious, simple rose. Perfect for the sweltering weather yesterday, as we hadn't turned on the AC since it had been chilly all week. My guests liked it so much, we ended up opening a second bottle.

2008 Mas Noir: A-/** This was a huge surprise. I had very low expectations of this wine, considering that it's French, mevushal, and 5 years old. To make a long story short, the wine was delightful! 100% syrah. Deep ruby color. Medium to full bodied. Only 11% alcohol! Never seen that before.... VERY French old world styling. Tons of loamy earth and heavy barnyard funk. Then you get hit with delightful tart blueberry--like biting down on a mouthful. Nice structure with good tannins. Bretty but in a good way. And most importantly, NOT A HINT of stewed mevushal flavors!

Shabbos night was the Shiloh Legend 2009 (Mevushal). It was a very fruity wine and did not realize it was mevushal until I saw the back. I just assumed it wasn't. Though, the next day it fell flat on its face and was laid to rest in the kitchen sink...Shabbos day was GHW Yarden Gewurztraminer 2012, mildly spicy and mildly tartly fruity (need to work on my vocabularly). Was nice.

Tzora Neve Ilan Blanc 2010 - Although this Chardonnay is not as crisp nor as flinty as a Chablis, it is as briny and has as much minerals as one. The body is light to medium, and pears are the dominant fruit flavor. However, the narrative is not opulent, expressed through bright fruit and oak, rather it has a modernistic minimalism. It is somewhat deficient in acid. 14% AbV. B/**/Y

Hagafen Prix Pinot Noir North Soleil 2006 - The cherry notes were overlaid over a bed of earth and compost. Better than some of the other bottles I've Pinot I've had of late, but still pretty mediocre. 13.5% AbV. B-/**/N

Tzora Neve Ilan Blanc 2010 - Although this Chardonnay is not as crisp nor as flinty as a Chablis, it is as briny and has as much minerals as one.

From which Chablis would you draw the comparison?

Hi Andrew,

There definitely aren't sufficient data points in the world of kosher Chablis to draw any generalizations. My references are to universal descriptors of Chablis, and to those many wine drinkers who wouldn't have Chardonnay unless it is from Chablis, explaining why it is so. The Pascal Bouchard that I had, although presumably being of Petite Chablis quality, is still consistent stylistically with what one would expect based on the universal references.

While it wasn't intended to be a "gotcha" question, that is what I had suspected. I personally find it much more useful (and more sincere) when tasting notes contain references to personal guideposts and experiences as opposed to theoretical comparisons to nuances and textbook descriptors that are not based on actual occurrences. This happens mostly when people try to talk about Pinot Noir, in describing something as "Burgundian" or how it is "true" or "untrue" "should be" more or less of the same. Yes, there is an element of flint/minerality/brine/salt air in Chablis, the degree of which can only be effectively judged as authentic (or even pleasant) only through extensive tasting. Others in the forum clearly have differing views here in using judging a wine as compared to textbook (literally) descriptors. Looking forward to your reply,

Andrew Breskin wrote:Pinchas,...Yes, there is an element of flint/minerality/brine/salt air in Chablis, the degree of which can only be effectively judged as authentic (or even pleasant) only through extensive tasting. Others in the forum clearly have differing views here in using judging a wine as compared to textbook (literally) descriptors.

So would you please share with us, what it is that makes you such an authority on Chablis, to justify your sweeping statement, and--may I add--your willingness to validate my statement that Chablis indeed has the qualities I said it has.

Chablis is not as difficult to comprehend as you make it out to be. The stylistic differences between Chablis and other, particularly New World, Chardonnay are not a matter of nuance, but are strikingly different.

Speaking of sincerity, my guard is always up when discussing wine with people who have a stake in it

Pinchas L wrote:So would you please share with us, what it is that makes you such an authority on Chablis, to justify your sweeping statement, and--may I add--your willingness to validate my statement that Chablis indeed has the qualities I said it has....

Speaking of sincerity, my guard is always up when discussing wine with people who have a stake in it

Best,-> Pinchas

Smiley notwithstanding, you can address the substance of my post and then I can respond to that, and to your issues with my qualification and motivation.

Pinchas L wrote:So would you please share with us, what it is that makes you such an authority on Chablis, to justify your sweeping statement, and--may I add--your willingness to validate my statement that Chablis indeed has the qualities I said it has....

Speaking of sincerity, my guard is always up when discussing wine with people who have a stake in it

Best,-> Pinchas

Smiley notwithstanding, you can address the substance of my post and then I can respond to that, and to your issues with my qualification and motivation.

Hi Andrew,

When the meaning of the references made are well understood by the general wine drinking public, a meaning that is not controversial, it is quite often a succinct way of making a point. Referring to a Chardonnay as being in the style of Chablis, or to a Pinot as being Burgundian, falls into that category. This holds especially when the writer, as in my case, explains what specific aspect of the wines of those regions it is to which they are alluding. Evidently, you understood my reference, and you went so far as to agree to it, admitting that white wines of Chablis categorically display briny characteristics. You are questioning my right to use that reference. And that is the question to which I object.

Thanks for the reply. Your descriptors were "not as crisp nor as flinty," and "as briny and has as much minerals." You must agree that this was a quantification of descriptors, not a mere use of them, which was the basis of my argument that these quantifying descriptors are ought not to be used when there is no real world experiential basis for comparison.

As far as my personal experience with Burgundy and other wines of the world, it's not something that I typically discuss here, but I would be happy to discuss via PM. Also, you will note on my website that I don't do much by way of white wine.

Andrew Breskin wrote:Thanks for the reply. Your descriptors were "not as crisp nor as flinty," and "as briny and has as much minerals." You must agree that this was a quantification of descriptors, not a mere use of them, which was the basis of my argument that these quantifying descriptors are ought not to be used when there is no real world experiential basis for comparison.

As far as my personal experience with Burgundy and other wines of the world, it's not something that I typically discuss here, but I would be happy to discuss via PM. Also, you will note on my website that I don't do much by way of white wine.

Thanks,Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Do you agree or disagree with the content of my post? Did you or didn't you drink from the Neve Ilan?

As for my use of the descriptors, they are more in the way of comparison than quantification, and there is not much hair splitting involved. And just like you won't discuss your personal experiences with non-kosher wine, I free myself of the need to do so, too. That said, I feel sufficiently qualified to reference Chablis the way I did based on my own personal experiences.

In case you worry, should I make references to Chablis or Burgundy in vain, I count on Chaim Shraga, who still lurks here periodically, to keep me honest.

Wow! I have to say I've never tasted a Chablis which I would have described as "briney". I have had many. Their high acidities/low pHs tend to make for wines which go with oysters, if one eats them, or caviar, if one eats it-- things I have often associated with brine (yes, I've eaten oysters, in a former life, caviar then, and kosher caviar whenever it's decent). The high acid green Chardonnay is what accounts for the flavors, and the greenish tinge. Not so difficult to find green Chard, but difficult to find one that also has the requisite alcoholic strength and ripe flavors that good Grands Crus Chablis has to offer.

Well now that the most recent "flame war" has receded, Harry I enjoyed a lovely bottle of 2010 Midbar Viognier! Yes, I love the winery and the wines from it. I paired it with a mushroom risotto and lemon roasted chicken.