<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3>Yeah, I think that just about hits the nail on the head.......

<FONT face=Verdana size=3>

I think that couldn't be further from the truth. I am a big fan of Fragile myself but can't chose it in this one. Nursery Cryme is just composed better overall. The four songs that are short and written by one member each just bring down the album a bit. You can't tell me that Fragile wins by miles because of stronger songs and better atmosphere. Genesis was known for their atmosphere and emotion in their songs. Eh, I guess it could be considered opinion. Well at least you know mine now...

One likes to believe In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity

Hmm... it's tough to compare Fragile to Nursery Cryme. I would say that they are both excellent records. But, i think Nursery Cryme's strength is "atmosphere", and Fragile's strength is "execution" (or production). I think the 2 records are equally good but for different reasons.

<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3>Yeah, I think that just about hits the nail on the head.......

<FONT face=Verdana size=3>

I think that couldn't be further from the truth. I am a big fan of Fragile myself but can't chose it in this one. Nursery Cryme is just composed better overall. The four songs that are short and written by one member each just bring down the album a bit. You can't tell me that Fragile wins by miles because of stronger songs and better atmosphere. Genesis was known for their atmosphere and emotion in their songs. Eh, I guess it could be considered opinion. Well at least you know mine now...

I think the overall QUALITY of fragile is better, the songs heart of the sunrise, roundabout, south side of the sky and even long distance runaround wipe the map with EVERYTHING on nursery cryme! and the short numbers from each member of the band very much DO add to the atmosphere because in between these longer more structured songs you've got snippets of beauty that really bring the album together excellently "we have heaven" leading into "south side of the sky" is a perfect example of this. i would love to know what you mean by nursery cryme is "composed" better. not being sarcastic just curios.

I do like nursery cryme, i was glad the day i bought it and still am now, but fragile is the sound of a band getting in their stride, and when yes were in that stage of their career, nothing could match them.

Hmm... it's tough to compare Fragile to Nursery Cryme. I would say that they
are both excellent records. But, i think Nursery Cryme's strength is
"atmosphere", and Fragile's strength is "execution" (or production). I think
the 2 records are equally good but for different reasons.

nice post, though I'd contend Fragile was full of
'atmosphere'. South Side of the Sky.... if that is
the sound of freezing to death... I'll pass on dying in my sleep.
The Fish.... aquatic adventures galore. Mood for a Day... I
picture myself enjoying a nice spring day in a grassy field.
Heart of the Sunrise.... hell probably the most atmospheric of all
(mainly for the intro of course). We Have Heaven.... picture
yourself floating with the angels. Very atmospheric in my
book, but that's just me.

Hmm... it's tough to compare Fragile to Nursery Cryme. I would say that they are both excellent records. But, i think Nursery Cryme's strength is "atmosphere", and Fragile's strength is "execution" (or production). I think the 2 records are equally good but for different reasons.

nice post, though I'd contend Fragile was full of 'atmosphere'. South Side of the Sky.... if that is the sound of freezing to death... I'll pass on dying in my sleep. The Fish.... aquatic adventures galore. Mood for a Day... I picture myself enjoying a nice spring day in a grassy field. Heart of the Sunrise.... hell probably the most atmospheric of all (mainly for the intro of course). We Have Heaven.... picture yourself floating with the angels. Very atmospheric in my book, but that's just me.

I also think fragile has an excellent atmosphere and you have put it beautifully

Hmm... it's tough to compare Fragile to Nursery Cryme. I would say that they are both excellent records. But, i think Nursery Cryme's strength is "atmosphere", and Fragile's strength is "execution" (or production). I think the 2 records are equally good but for different reasons.

nice post, though I'd contend Fragile was full of 'atmosphere'. South Side of the Sky.... if that is the sound of freezing to death... I'll pass on dying in my sleep. The Fish.... aquatic adventures galore. Mood for a Day... I picture myself enjoying a nice spring day in a grassy field. Heart of the Sunrise.... hell probably the most atmospheric of all (mainly for the intro of course). We Have Heaven.... picture yourself floating with the angels. Very atmospheric in my book, but that's just me.

I also think fragile has an excellent atmosphere and you have put it beautifully

^I don't hear why anyone can say that the atmosphere of Nursery Cryme is prominent. The album is so poorly produced it's like listening to an old gramaphone playing!

Hmm... it's tough to compare Fragile to Nursery Cryme. I would say that they are both excellent records. But, i think Nursery Cryme's strength is "atmosphere", and Fragile's strength is "execution" (or production). I think the 2 records are equally good but for different reasons.

nice
post, though I'd contend Fragile was full of
'atmosphere'. South Side of the Sky.... if that is
the sound of freezing to death... I'll pass on dying in my sleep.
The Fish.... aquatic adventures galore. Mood for a Day... I
picture myself enjoying a nice spring day in a grassy field.
Heart of the Sunrise.... hell probably the most atmospheric of all
(mainly for the intro of course). We Have Heaven.... picture
yourself floating with the angels. Very atmospheric in my
book, but that's just me.

I also think fragile has an excellent atmosphere and you have put it beautifully

^I
don't hear why anyone can say that the atmosphere of Nursery Cryme is
prominent. The album is so poorly produced it's like listening to an
old gramaphone playing!

thanks Winter Wine, nuggets of wisdom are rare out of my mouth, so I savor them.

Nursery Cryme is a decent album by an up and coming group.
Nothing more nothing less, personally I like the album, it's just IMO
nowhere near Fragile on most any level. Other than personal
preference.

Hmm... it's tough to compare Fragile to Nursery Cryme. I would say that they are both excellent records. But, i think Nursery Cryme's strength is "atmosphere", and Fragile's strength is "execution" (or production). I think the 2 records are equally good but for different reasons.

nice post, though I'd contend Fragile was full of 'atmosphere'. South Side of the Sky.... if that is the sound of freezing to death... I'll pass on dying in my sleep. The Fish.... aquatic adventures galore. Mood for a Day... I picture myself enjoying a nice spring day in a grassy field. Heart of the Sunrise.... hell probably the most atmospheric of all (mainly for the intro of course). We Have Heaven.... picture yourself floating with the angels. Very atmospheric in my book, but that's just me.

I also think fragile has an excellent atmosphere and you have put it beautifully

^I don't hear why anyone can say that the atmosphere of Nursery Cryme is prominent. The album is so poorly produced it's like listening to an old gramaphone playing!

thanks Winter Wine, nuggets of wisdom are rare out of my mouth, so I savor them.

Nursery Cryme is a decent album by an up and coming group. Nothing more nothing less, personally I like the album, it's just IMO nowhere near Fragile on most any level. Other than personal preference.

I fully agree with ya! like them both! but you have to hand it to fragile! keep those nuggets of wisdom comin!! hehe

<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3>Yeah, I think that just about hits the nail on the head.......

<FONT face=Verdana size=3>

I think that couldn't be further from the truth. I am a big fan of Fragile myself but can't chose it in this one. Nursery Cryme is just composed better overall. The four songs that are short and written by one member each just bring down the album a bit. You can't tell me that Fragile wins by miles because of stronger songs and better atmosphere. Genesis was known for their atmosphere and emotion in their songs. Eh, I guess it could be considered opinion. Well at least you know mine now...

I think the overall QUALITY of fragile is better, the songs heart of the sunrise, roundabout, south side of the sky and even long distance runaround wipe the map with EVERYTHING on nursery cryme! and the short numbers from each member of the band very much DO add to the atmosphere because in between these longer more structured songs you've got snippets of beauty that really bring the album together excellently "we have heaven" leading into "south side of the sky" is a perfect example of this. i would love to know what you mean by nursery cryme is "composed" better. not being sarcastic just curios.

I do like nursery cryme, i was glad the day i bought it and still am now, but fragile is the sound of a band getting in their stride, and when yes were in that stage of their career, nothing could match them.

Here is my review of Nursery Cryme:

"This album opens up with "The Musical Box." A beautiful album opener (as we know how good Genesis was at opening albums. It starts off with Gabriel singing quietly and very emotionally ("All your hearts now seem so far away...) The song follows the quiet and very emotional feel until the instrumental break at about 4 minutes. The song explodes as Hackett solo's perfectly to embody the emotional buildup. The next part ("The clock, tick tock..") is even quiter than the beginning until Gabriel sings "the wall" powerfully. This instrumental break is long and inspiring. The final buildup begins after this instrumental break. This is one of the most emotionally powerful conclusions (if not, the most) of any song that I've heard. Hearing Gabriel sing with all his power "Why don't you touch me, touch me" and repeating "NOW" gives me chills everytime. The song was based on a young girl Cynthia (9) who "gracefully" removed Henry's (8) head while playing a game of croquet. The story of the song begins with Cynthia discovering Henry's musical box that included the figure "Old King Cole" when she opened it. Cynthia saw the lifetime of desires go by as Henry aged with nothing but a child's mind and vision. Henry was attempting to have Cynthia persue his romantic desire when she threw the musical box at the elderly looking child and destroyed them both. (This story can be found in the inside booklet of the "Nursery Cryme" album.) The album cover is also a depiction of this song and story. You can also find the album cover of Nursery Cryme imbetted in the back of Foxtrot if you look carefully (with a few interesting tweaks.)

The follow up to the Musical Box is "For Absent Friends" sung by Phil Collins. This is the one song sung by Collins that I can actually say that I enjoy. It's very short but is emotional and a well written, piano driven song (though many fans tend to dismiss it.)

"The Return of the Giant Hogweed" is yet another Genesis masterpiece. It's a rather guitar-bass heavy song and comes in very strongly vocally. This is a great example of how Genesis' use humor in their music. The giant hogweed either depicts a set of corrupt rulers or the media-
damaged people from society (could be interpreted in many ways but that's the direction that I tend to lean.) Gabriel's singing really stands out in this song. His quiet singing and heavy vocal during the verses contrast very well and keep the song very interesting. The piano break by Banks a little more than half way through the song also adds a lot to the song.

"Seven Stones" is, in my opinion, a very under-recognized (I will not say underrated) Genesis song. The sea in this song (as Gabriel likes to use a lot) represents emotion (the sea and water is an old symbol for emotion, and we know how Gabriel is with symbols.) This song has some of the best melodies that I've heard (my favorite being "Despair that tires the world, bring the old man laughter...")

Next we have "Harold the Barrel." Many people consider this song a "joke." This couldn't be farther from the truth. They are using the Genesis humor that is present in a lot of songs, but the song is by no means a joke. It is a very complex and well written song with a brilliant melody. It talks about a man that is contemplating suicide and the news makes a big story of it where they tell Harold "We're all your friends, if you come on down and talk to us son." It really is interesting how Genesis is depicting the media's effect on suicide. This is definitely a standout track that fits well and adds some diversity to the album.

My personal opinion is that "Harlequin" is the weakest track on the album, though it is still far from weak. Gabriel and Collins sing this song together in it's entirety and the harmonies are done well. The album concludes with "The Fountain of Salmacis." This song really defines the "Symphonic" part of Symphonic Prog. The buildup is very strong (even from the very beginning) and makes me think that there are more than just 5 guys playing here. The lyrics are brilliant (as always when talking about Gabriel-era Genesis.) This song talks about Hermaphrodite (a flower/person/animal containing both male and female organs) using the Greek mythology where it was originated. It was interesting to learn where the word hermaphrodite came from, since I had no idea until reading this song. The emotion for Hermaphroditus is very strong and displayed well by Genesis vocally and musically."

The magic atmosphere that is present while I listen to Genesis' music is unmatched. Their compositional skills are above that of Yes IN MY OPINION (keep in mind.) They wrote the musical parts to reflect the emotions of the lyrics. This is what made Genesis so emotional and gave them that sort of "magic" sound about their music. If you don't hear it, that's fine, but you're just missing out.

One likes to believe In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity

<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3>Yeah, I think that just about hits the nail on the head.......

<FONT face=Verdana size=3>

I think that couldn't be further from the truth. I am a big fan of Fragile myself but can't chose it in this one. Nursery Cryme is just composed better overall. The four songs that are short and written by one member each just bring down the album a bit. You can't tell me that Fragile wins by miles because of stronger songs and better atmosphere. Genesis was known for their atmosphere and emotion in their songs. Eh, I guess it could be considered opinion. Well at least you know mine now...

I think the overall QUALITY of fragile is better, the songs heart of the sunrise, roundabout, south side of the sky and even long distance runaround wipe the map with EVERYTHING on nursery cryme! and the short numbers from each member of the band very much DO add to the atmosphere because in between these longer more structured songs you've got snippets of beauty that really bring the album together excellently "we have heaven" leading into "south side of the sky" is a perfect example of this. i would love to know what you mean by nursery cryme is "composed" better. not being sarcastic just curios.

I do like nursery cryme, i was glad the day i bought it and still am now, but fragile is the sound of a band getting in their stride, and when yes were in that stage of their career, nothing could match them.

Here is my review of Nursery Cryme:

"This album opens up with "The Musical Box." A beautiful album opener (as we know how good Genesis was at opening albums. It starts off with Gabriel singing quietly and very emotionally ("All your hearts now seem so far away...) The song follows the quiet and very emotional feel until the instrumental break at about 4 minutes. The song explodes as Hackett solo's perfectly to embody the emotional buildup. The next part ("The clock, tick tock..") is even quiter than the beginning until Gabriel sings "the wall" powerfully. This instrumental break is long and inspiring. The final buildup begins after this instrumental break. This is one of the most emotionally powerful conclusions (if not, the most) of any song that I've heard. Hearing Gabriel sing with all his power "Why don't you touch me, touch me" and repeating "NOW" gives me chills everytime. The song was based on a young girl Cynthia (9) who "gracefully" removed Henry's (8) head while playing a game of croquet. The story of the song begins with Cynthia discovering Henry's musical box that included the figure "Old King Cole" when she opened it. Cynthia saw the lifetime of desires go by as Henry aged with nothing but a child's mind and vision. Henry was attempting to have Cynthia persue his romantic desire when she threw the musical box at the elderly looking child and destroyed them both. (This story can be found in the inside booklet of the "Nursery Cryme" album.) The album cover is also a depiction of this song and story. You can also find the album cover of Nursery Cryme imbetted in the back of Foxtrot if you look carefully (with a few interesting tweaks.)

The follow up to the Musical Box is "For Absent Friends" sung by Phil Collins. This is the one song sung by Collins that I can actually say that I enjoy. It's very short but is emotional and a well written, piano driven song (though many fans tend to dismiss it.)

"The Return of the Giant Hogweed" is yet another Genesis masterpiece. It's a rather guitar-bass heavy song and comes in very strongly vocally. This is a great example of how Genesis' use humor in their music. The giant hogweed either depicts a set of corrupt rulers or the media- damaged people from society (could be interpreted in many ways but that's the direction that I tend to lean.) Gabriel's singing really stands out in this song. His quiet singing and heavy vocal during the verses contrast very well and keep the song very interesting. The piano break by Banks a little more than half way through the song also adds a lot to the song.

"Seven Stones" is, in my opinion, a very under-recognized (I will not say underrated) Genesis song. The sea in this song (as Gabriel likes to use a lot) represents emotion (the sea and water is an old symbol for emotion, and we know how Gabriel is with symbols.) This song has some of the best melodies that I've heard (my favorite being "Despair that tires the world, bring the old man laughter...")

Next we have "Harold the Barrel." Many people consider this song a "joke." This couldn't be farther from the truth. They are using the Genesis humor that is present in a lot of songs, but the song is by no means a joke. It is a very complex and well written song with a brilliant melody. It talks about a man that is contemplating suicide and the news makes a big story of it where they tell Harold "We're all your friends, if you come on down and talk to us son." It really is interesting how Genesis is depicting the media's effect on suicide. This is definitely a standout track that fits well and adds some diversity to the album.

My personal opinion is that "Harlequin" is the weakest track on the album, though it is still far from weak. Gabriel and Collins sing this song together in it's entirety and the harmonies are done well. The album concludes with "The Fountain of Salmacis." This song really defines the "Symphonic" part of Symphonic Prog. The buildup is very strong (even from the very beginning) and makes me think that there are more than just 5 guys playing here. The lyrics are brilliant (as always when talking about Gabriel-era Genesis.) This song talks about Hermaphrodite (a flower/person/animal containing both male and female organs) using the Greek mythology where it was originated. It was interesting to learn where the word hermaphrodite came from, since I had no idea until reading this song. The emotion for Hermaphroditus is very strong and displayed well by Genesis vocally and musically."

The magic atmosphere that is present while I listen to Genesis' music is unmatched. Their compositional skills are above that of Yes IN MY OPINION (keep in mind.) They wrote the musical parts to reflect the emotions of the lyrics. This is what made Genesis so emotional and gave them that sort of "magic" sound about their music. If you don't hear it, that's fine, but you're just missing out.

Sorry DT, but I don't hear a lot of what you described when listening to Nursery Cryme which to me sound just like a bunch of kids learning their trade and I don't mean that disrespectfully!

<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3>Yeah, I think that just about hits the nail on the head.......

<FONT face=Verdana size=3>

I think that couldn't be further from the truth. I am a big fan of Fragile myself but can't chose it in this one. Nursery Cryme is just composed better overall. The four songs that are short and written by one member each just bring down the album a bit. You can't tell me that Fragile wins by miles because of stronger songs and better atmosphere. Genesis was known for their atmosphere and emotion in their songs. Eh, I guess it could be considered opinion. Well at least you know mine now...

I think the overall QUALITY of fragile is better, the songs heart of the sunrise, roundabout, south side of the sky and even long distance runaround wipe the map with EVERYTHING on nursery cryme! and the short numbers from each member of the band very much DO add to the atmosphere because in between these longer more structured songs you've got snippets of beauty that really bring the album together excellently "we have heaven" leading into "south side of the sky" is a perfect example of this. i would love to know what you mean by nursery cryme is "composed" better. not being sarcastic just curios.

I do like nursery cryme, i was glad the day i bought it and still am now, but fragile is the sound of a band getting in their stride, and when yes were in that stage of their career, nothing could match them.

Here is my review of Nursery Cryme: "This album opens up with "The Musical Box." A beautiful album opener (as we know how good Genesis was at opening albums. It starts off with Gabriel singing quietly and very emotionally ("All your hearts now seem so far away...) The song follows the quiet and very emotional feel until the instrumental break at about 4 minutes. The song explodes as Hackett solo's perfectly to embody the emotional buildup. The next part ("The clock, tick tock..") is even quiter than the beginning until Gabriel sings "the wall" powerfully. This instrumental break is long and inspiring. The final buildup begins after this instrumental break. This is one of the most emotionally powerful conclusions (if not, the most) of any song that I've heard. Hearing Gabriel sing with all his power "Why don't you touch me, touch me" and repeating "NOW" gives me chills everytime. The song was based on a young girl Cynthia (9) who "gracefully" removed Henry's (8) head while playing a game of croquet. The story of the song begins with Cynthia discovering Henry's musical box that included the figure "Old King Cole" when she opened it. Cynthia saw the lifetime of desires go by as Henry aged with nothing but a child's mind and vision. Henry was attempting to have Cynthia persue his romantic desire when she threw the musical box at the elderly looking child and destroyed them both. (This story can be found in the inside booklet of the "Nursery Cryme" album.) The album cover is also a depiction of this song and story. You can also find the album cover of Nursery Cryme imbetted in the back of Foxtrot if you look carefully (with a few interesting tweaks.) The follow up to the Musical Box is "For Absent Friends" sung by Phil Collins. This is the one song sung by Collins that I can actually say that I enjoy. It's very short but is emotional and a well written, piano driven song (though many fans tend to dismiss it.) "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" is yet another Genesis masterpiece. It's a rather guitar-bass heavy song and comes in very strongly vocally. This is a great example of how Genesis' use humor in their music. The giant hogweed either depicts a set of corrupt rulers or the media- damaged people from society (could be interpreted in many ways but that's the direction that I tend to lean.) Gabriel's singing really stands out in this song. His quiet singing and heavy vocal during the verses contrast very well and keep the song very interesting. The piano break by Banks a little more than half way through the song also adds a lot to the song. "Seven Stones" is, in my opinion, a very under-recognized (I will not say underrated) Genesis song. The sea in this song (as Gabriel likes to use a lot) represents emotion (the sea and water is an old symbol for emotion, and we know how Gabriel is with symbols.) This song has some of the best melodies that I've heard (my favorite being "Despair that tires the world, bring the old man laughter...") Next we have "Harold the Barrel." Many people consider this song a "joke." This couldn't be farther from the truth. They are using the Genesis humor that is present in a lot of songs, but the song is by no means a joke. It is a very complex and well written song with a brilliant melody. It talks about a man that is contemplating suicide and the news makes a big story of it where they tell Harold "We're all your friends, if you come on down and talk to us son." It really is interesting how Genesis is depicting the media's effect on suicide. This is definitely a standout track that fits well and adds some diversity to the album. My personal opinion is that "Harlequin" is the weakest track on the album, though it is still far from weak. Gabriel and Collins sing this song together in it's entirety and the harmonies are done well. The album concludes with "The Fountain of Salmacis." This song really defines the "Symphonic" part of Symphonic Prog. The buildup is very strong (even from the very beginning) and makes me think that there are more than just 5 guys playing here. The lyrics are brilliant (as always when talking about Gabriel-era Genesis.) This song talks about Hermaphrodite (a flower/person/animal containing both male and female organs) using the Greek mythology where it was originated. It was interesting to learn where the word hermaphrodite came from, since I had no idea until reading this song. The emotion for Hermaphroditus is very strong and displayed well by Genesis vocally and musically." The magic atmosphere that is present while I listen to Genesis' music is unmatched. Their compositional skills are above that of Yes IN MY OPINION (keep in mind.) They wrote the musical parts to reflect the emotions of the lyrics. This is what made Genesis so emotional and gave them that sort of "magic" sound about their music. If you don't hear it, that's fine, but you're just missing out.

Sorry DT, but I don't hear a lot of what you described when listening to Nursery Cryme which to me sound just like a bunch of kids learning their trade and I don't mean that disrespectfully!

I'm not saying you have to hear it, it's absolutely fine if you don't. I believe it was Winter Wine that wanted me to give further reasoning to why I said I feel that Nursery Cryme is better than Fragile. I don't think it's far better, I love Yes also and love Fragile (as you can tell by my name, FragileDT.) Fragile is the album that got me into further 70s symphonic prog where I found Genesis and all the others. I just don't want it to seem that I'm giving an unjustified answer.

One likes to believe In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity

"I don't hear why anyone can say that the atmosphere of Nursery Cryme is prominent. The album is so poorly produced it's like listening to an old gramaphone playing!"

Well, I wouldn't say that it's "poorly produced". I also think that there is more to "atmosphere" than "production". The Beatles live at the Star Club in Hamburg Germany is a terrible "production", but it oozes with "atmosphere".

This is an extreme example, but, I hold to my earlier post that Nursery Cryme has an atmosphere and/or vibe that Fragile simply doesn't have. And that is coming from a huge Yes fan. Yes' musicianship is unbeatable at a lot of points in thier career, and it certainly comes across in Fragile (and even in a way that it didn't with the albums prior to Fragile). It was the addition of Rick Wakeman that sparked that off. Yes was definitely exited about making Fragile, and it comes across in the record.

If you want a Yes album to compare to the atmosphere of Nursery Cryme, you should consider Tales from Topographic Oceans. I think that is the only time Yes got close to the vibe of Nursery Cryme (or Foxtrot, for that matter).

Fragile for me. It is more mature and all the songs are well put together, not really a poor track on the album.Nursery crime on the otehr hand youve got Harold the Barrol, Musical Box, Giant Hogweed and Fountain of whatever it is which are all amazing. The other few tracks I think are very mediocre

Edited by walrus333

If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!

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