“Anything that makes the Soviets squirm has to be good.” – Gen. Chuck Yeager on the widely criticized SDI program in the 80s.

The secession skirmish is getting particularly nasty among conservatives. It was already ugly with the liberals, who proved themselves (at least a few thousand of them) to be nothing but fascist thugs by posting a WhiteHut.gov petition to strip all secessionists of their citizenship and deport them.

To be clear, I acknowledge the widespread criticism of the petition drives going on through WhiteHut.gov, and I agree that signing such petitions is both hazardous in substantial ways, and useless in practical ways. However, I absolutely refuse to condemn those brave, pissed-off people who are doing so, if only because it puts a smile on my face, and – make no mistake – it eats away at the smugness of the narcissist in the dark recesses of his twisted mind. For a movement that is truly on the ropes, like we American conservatives unquestionably are, it does not serve the cause to carelessly toss away weapons that are at hand merely because they are not entirely safe or completely effective. Some weapons, like Doolittle’s raid over Tokyo, are neither of these things, and yet they serve in desperation. It is unfortunate that so many people forget the fact of the unpleasant, regular occurrence of truly desperate times in history and seek to demand that we not accept them when they reappear, as though wishing makes it so.

Remind me again how conservatism is served by calling each other cowards and dunces? By rewarding every brave impulse toward the resistance of tyranny with contempt? That’s what the very bastions of conservatism have been doing in the last few days. Just the other day, Glenn Beck called all secessionists “out of [their] minds.” He also called such questions “settled” by the Civil War. I doubt he asked the 50 million or so still-pissed-off southerners, many of whom are Texans – with still quite open minds about such things – whether the issue is settled.

But the most offensive talk came just yesterday from Breitbart’s own John Nolte, who called secessionists a “confederation of dunces.” But he didn’t stop there. He also called them “dumb,” “coward(s),” “crybab(ies)” and much more. Like Beck’s, his arguments were careless and superficial, and surprisingly, full of logical holes. For example, he asserted hypocrisy by saying that those who mocked Alec Baldwin for threatening to flee the country should refrain from making the same threat now. I’m sorry, John, but that’s the same kind of flawed logical trap that leftists use, and you should be above that. It assumes too much, first that the secessionists actually did mock Baldwin, and then that there’s an actual logical link where there isn’t. In truth, all of us are free to both mock Alec’s ridiculous threat to leave out of disdain for G.W. Bush, and also to threaten to dissolve our union with another President who is a tyrant, falsely elected, patently ineligible, and clinically insane. There is no hypocrisy there, and shame on John for pretending to be a leftist for a day while uttering that false syllogism. I could go on, but I think Nolte’s piece was written while strung out on too many grasshopper cocktails, and maybe we should just ignore it as a favor.

But I have even more reason today to admire those poor “idiots” who signed secession petitions. You see, I wondered if the whole thing might simply serve as a rallying point for those who needed it, and I was proven right last night at the dinner table. My wife brought up the subject, and after a brief discussion, she asked the youngest son, the Boy Scout, the patriot who, even at 14 bleeds red, white and blue, a grave question. In a slightly worried tone, she asked him if he would go to Texas, hypothetically, to join them in a secessionist fight if it came to actuality. He looked up thoughtfully, and with conviction said: “Yes, I would.” And then he explained why. No one was more surprised than me. Or more proud.

So, I ask you, you sages who are engaged in shooting down this silly talk, don’t we already have enough armchair quarterbacks? If our gravest error in the last five decades, as conservatives, Americans and patriots, was to listen overmuch to counsels of inaction as our country was overrun by actual communists, should we not now be extremely reticent to counsel even more inaction? How has that peaceful deference and restraint served us? I’ll tell you how: exactly as Tecumseh warned us it would not.

“That people will continue longest in the enjoyment of peace who timely prepare to vindicate themselves and manifest a determination to protect themselves whenever they are wronged.”

53 Responses to On Dunces, Cowards and Courage

Food for thought….. http://madogre.com/?p=3773
(Oh, and adult son called and said if there is a civil war, he will fight and wanted me to know. I waited breathlessly. Finally he said he would fight to be FREE and not let Obama and his Commies destroy America. He would not be a slave. Hmmm., wonder how the very nice, liberal bride is reacting to that…)

Thanks for this, Hoot, and my prayers are with your son and his soon-to-be-very-unhappy bride. But don’t get me started about Madogre’s article. I like him, but I despise that piece. Your son is twice the man that he is. I’m hoping that article was written in a fit of coffee-withdrawal psychosis or something.

Bride was not too happy when he left with a gifted rifle from Dad last time they were over. She is a gem, a real sweetie, and will come around. One adult daughter went full-blown non-thinking liberal but married a conservative Republican and he has a way of getting her to hear……and she has been making great strides…..She also was raised with so much stinking logic that she is hardwired for it; just a software issue, not a harddrive issue, so things are looking pretty good.

I’m sorry, Barn, but this strikes me as one of the biggest loads of shit I’ve read in a long time. We should be grateful for the American Left? Really? I don’t advocate being depressed or hopeless, and I never think it’s a good thing to dwell on our mistakes, but to cherish our mistakes, seems to me misguided. We have a job to do. No reason to look back. We should be happy warriors, but DG seems here to be wanting us to hold hands with our betrayers and sing kumbaya before calling it a day. When did he lose his mind? Maybe I just don’t understand.

Also, we are about to find out whether or not people overseas envy us. Greenfield is an idiot for presuming, at this moment, to say that we are lucky to have the degree of freedom we have, just before the great tsunami of leftist power and revenge crashes over all of us. I just hope I get to meet him in the camps, so I can tell him what I think of his assessment.

I guess I got something different out of it. To me it was more along the idea of …. Yeah things are crap but not as much as the crap in other countries. Now let’s keep a stiff upper lip and push through it. Nowadays the military refers to this as “embracing the suck”. It’s not rose-color delusion. Rather it’s perspective, maintaining a positive outlook (that we can and will beat this) and faith in God Almighty. HE’s got your six. As far as the author is concerned, read more of his stuff before closing the lid and flushing him.

I totally agree that the Sultan is a good writer, and I usually love his stuff. Maybe I’m just not in the mood for this particular kind of “embrace the suck” approach right now, but I usually get that kind of thing. I think I would have liked it more if he had appealed more to faith rather than his “Tao of Knish” kind of approach, which I don’t respect. I wouldn’t make a very good buddhist… or taoist. Also, even though I get the American Exceptionalism thing, I’m kind of tired of hearing that everything is so much better here. I just don’t buy it, you know? I’ve only ever been to 3 other countries, including California, and yeah, they sucked, but not like Somalia or anything. I’m pretty sure that there are lots of countries that have us beat in all kinds of categories and it just seems kind of ignorant to keep making believe that things are so much better here where we’ve been “embracing the suck” for so long here at home, you know? I guess, for me, faith is enough reason to stay positive; there’s no reason to go around making stuff up that’s just not true.

To the best of my knowledge (which isn’t much) Greenfield is Jewish, conservative and a NY’er. Maybe I didn’t look so close but I didn’t get any new age Tao vibe out of it. Just lots of “don’t give up… others have been there (and worse) before so focus on the job at hand”. I am a Big Time bitcher and complainer but I also know it’s counter productive and bad for morale. Now we got kicked square in the b@lls last week but it’s time we stopped puking over it, got up and make sure it don’t happen again. For me that means get active. The TEA Party must be onto something cause the liberals sure do hate them. I’d like to move to a red state but that’s nothing new and secondary to trying to improve our chances in 2016. There’s too many gun owners that either didn’t vote or wrote in a protest vote. That crap has got to change and it won’t happen by just chatting with those that agree on it. If you find someplace better be as critical as you are now so you don’t overlook something. If it passes that scrutiny let me know. So far I don’t think it’s happened.

I was referring to his tendency to look at evil as not so bad, and it struck me as an eastern, yin-yang kind of approach, but I could be wrong.

Keep in mind that when I proposed looking elsewhere, I was looking for a place to protect our savings and our families during the coming storm, not necessarily as a perfect utopia, and not necessarily forever. Clearly no place is perfect. And I’m not looking to abandon America completely yet, either.

I didn’t pick up on the not so bad evil yin yang thing. I took it as meaning things could be worse.
Side note…. from I don’t know which war movie…
“A guy tells me ‘Cheer up things could be worse’. So I cheered up and sure enough… things got worse”

I’m not trying to bash your possible move. I’m just advising to be real careful you don’t jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. Man, these tired old cliches are just pouring out.

Barn, if I ever give you the impression that we’re on the edge of speaking terms, I assure you, it’s just me speaking my mind, and being overblunt about it. My apologies for ever giving that impression, and thank you for putting up with my excesses. If I couldn’t get along with you, then trust me, there’s no hope with anybody, including the Gruntessa! 😯 Thanks for the laugh, BTW.

Voting has evolved to a matter of each and every day to day, moment to moment lifestyle choice each of us makes in the course of our daily lives. Same with secession. The most productive course going forward is to provide goods and services to those who need them, in exchange for things you actually need and can use. As for the gov/machine, “just say NO”. Before the fall of the eastern Communist bloc, regular folks lived their lives off the books for the most part, and got along okay in spite of the party line. It’s time for Americans to get and to practice individual responsibility, or to get back up on the porch and call it a day…Get straight with God, take care of your family and your tribe, and drive on…

Ok Grunt, I’ve held my silence for the past 1.5 weeks, but I feel I can start to write, now, without being overcome by my feminine tendency toward hysteria and being “over-wrought”, 😆

First off. . . I don’t disagree with what you’ve written, as such. I don’t know that I entirely agree with your opinions exactly. . . I am, clearly, rather torn on the issue.

The fact is that I think, overall, that secession is a bad idea. But I also acknowledge that sometimes, a bad idea is the only one to be had. I think it would be . . .regrettable. This is not mutually exclusive to necessary. All other things being equal, I believe that we are much stronger (and therefore, much safer and more prosperous) as a whole. [I love the fact that New York, Texas, Alaska and Florida are all part of the same county. CA can fall into the sea, however 😆 ] However, all other things aren’t equal. *sigh*

I certainly believe that all governors must be pressured to assert the 10th Amendment Rights of the individual states. Reinvigorating the 10th (and invalidating all SCOTUS decisions that violated the 10th, such as Roe V Wade) would, I think, solve a bunch of problems and complaints. However, I can see how just such actions, if held to by the governors, would lead to secession anyway.

I can also see a mid point, groups of states confederating together in a regional way, to help preserve some of the remaining security and prosperity (such as it may be), and these groups of states having some sort of loose, overarching confederation that really is more like a mutual assistance treaty.

But, when it comes down to it, if there were to be secession. . . if TX were to take up arms. . . then yes, I would try to get my big hiney down there. Not to fight, as I’d likely be more of a hindrance then a help in the front lines. But I can certainly do well in a support role, and I think my experience would lend itself to logistics and supply.

BUT, Grunt, I’m not a Gryffindor like you.You and your running headlong into trouble. *tsk*. :p I feel like I’m missing something. Something sizable. Until I know what I’m missing, I cannot properly discern what is most right, and will have reservations about such an idea of secession . . .

No worries, Zoph. We handle disagreement well on this blog. Even from you Slytherins. 😀 Besides, I’ve never really said I was an advocate of secession, only that I severely disapprove of limiting our courses of action a priori, and that’s all I’ve been hearing lately: that we can’t do this and we can’t do that, and you know, December is such an inconvenient time to get into a fight with the neighbors, because, like, it’s cold and all… 🙄

I really do understand that nobody here wants to face some of the extreme courses of action, like state secession, that are being discussed by some. I get it. You have stated your reasonable reservations rather openly and bravely, I think. I am not advocating secession, but I am advocating that we face the following facts:

1. Once you have established, unequivocally, that something is certain, then no matter how much you don’t want it to be true, you MUST FACE THE TRUTH and act if it demands action. Failing to do so, or worse, pretending it isn’t so, for even a short length of time is shockingly hazardous to your health. Your mental health will be the first thing to suffer. Sound familiar? The next thing, which may take some time, is that you may become trapped by your failure to act. Some situations are worse than others, but in a situation like this, where immense power is being abused, the consequences of your failure to act are horrendous.

2. As Coyote said recently, some of you don’t seem to understand the magnitude of how much trouble we’re in. We could both be wrong, and only you can decide this for yourselves, but I strongly encourage all of you to make that assessment, and don’t delay, because (hint) this decision should have been anticipated 3 months ago, and last week it should have been done and filed.

3. Don’t ever let an adversary convince you to honor an agreement you never made. Remember Braveheart? Mel: “When did I ever swear allegiance to this man?” Inquisitor: “It matters not. He is your king.” Bullshit! This country is made up of sovereign states that entered into a union as such and were betrayed by misguided men into believing that they somehow, inexplicably, have no right to leave. Bullshit! It simply isn’t true, and the Civil War IN NO WAY settled the matter otherwise. Anybody who says otherwise is no student of American history or even the history of human contracts. Even the sacred marriage covenant, the second-most precious binding contract in existence, allows for separation if necessary, as St. Paul asserts, for the good of the couple. Secession must remain an option, if only as a token option, or our freedom is truly gone forever. It’s quite possible that it might be our only chance left to heal the union, just as it’s sometimes the only solution for broken marriages. That might seem a contradiction, but it’s not.

4. Those who say that it’s cowardice or treachery to pack up and leave a hopeless situation think that they are honoring their fathers’ sacrifices by staying put. That may or may not be true, and I would say it depends on what their fathers’ judgment of the situation is, as they look down from above. It may be that they are screaming at us, telling us to get their precious grandchildren the hell out of Obama’s Amerika. But one thing’s for sure; every one of those guys who says that leaving is not an option is dishonoring the actions taken by their great-great-grandfathers who, at one time, judged that their situation somewhere else was intolerable and put their families on ships to America because of it. Ever think of that, idiots? Don’t you think there were brothers and friends sneering at them at the time, calling them cowards and traitors? Right.

Agree absolutely with point 1. Cognitive dissonance tears the brain apart. I know first hand the deep, deep mental and spiritual damage it can cause.

Also with point 2. I admit I failed to properly anticipate the ramifications of a Romney loss but, to be honest, the Bengazi thing.. . it changed some of the plans I had in wait, and I’ve had to re-plan, and almost immediately try to set in process without raising too many alarms. But yes, I have started to set some things in process. I may be moving too slow, but . . . the risk/ benefit of moving faster is currently weighted to the wrong other side. Because. . . I thought. . . I thought I could hold my current position. But now, I do not think that I could hold both my position and my soul. (I mean this literally). So, I have to wait for a few things to process through before I can really start, but I’ve been working on the ground work for the past week.. .

Also, Grunt, I’m seeing a lot of words that aren’t matching actions from some people out there. Why are people arming themselves so furiously? Gun sales through the roof, when they were already high. Not just to get ahead of the UN Arms Treaty, I suspect. Even Beck, while saying that secession is off the table, is also saying (though not quite as clearly) “Be ready for civil war. Be ready for the states to break apart.” (That whole bit about writing your local governor to make sure that the individual states have resources, including their own gold stocks, his ads for Cheaperthandirt.com are also. . . well. . .maybe I’m reading too much into them . . .). I’m seeing a lot of public disavowal of secession as an option, all while those same people are making all the very moves one makes when anticipating such a fight.

Point 3: So, you’re saying that, under Social Contract Theory(which was one of the major frameworks of the founding documents), that the party of the federal government has failed to perform according to the terms laid out in the Constitutional Contract (Including the Bill of Rights Addendum) and that the Contract is thus voided. Therefore releasing all parties from performance of said contract, including the voiding of all oaths and vows resulting from said contract? Termination for default, with the US government being the defaulting party? Yeah, okay. I can go for that. (All you had to do was put it in contracting terms. Though . . . as en employee of said Federal Government, who did in fact swear an oath upon gaining my position . . . I feel deeply shamed that I have allowed this to happen, while I also cannot seem to figure how I could have changed things. I start to empathize, a bit, with the ronin of old . . .)

Point 4: Hn. Good point. I don’t know that there’s really anyplace to go, anymore. If the lands of my ancestors had a Right-of-Return, the only place that wouldn’t be worse than here would be Switzerland, and that’s a thin link a couple centuries old (pre Revolutionary War. Everywhere else is slobbering EU mess, *sigh*). Everyplace will get rough when the Fall is realized. I honestly don’t think that there will be any good place to go. At least not one that’s accessible to those not already citizens. . . So. . . I gotta think about this one some more . . .

Ima havta work on this gradually, but let me first just say I didn’t mean to freak anybody out and make them panic about not being ready for stuff. Personally, I’ve got a plan, like you, but I’m not moving very fast on it due to the magnitude of stuff to do, and I think we all need to remain faithful about these things, and stay confident that the Good Lord is watching over us as we do what we need to do. So, no worries. I’m just glad you’re approaching things the way they are, without any denial going on.

About #4, I think that there is much that other fellow travelers can teach us about the rest of the world. Right, Shal and ZurichMike and Aussie? I do think there are always other options. I’m not saying that’s what we should do. I’m just saying we should never consider the option of moving away closed to us merely out of ignorance or a misplaced sense of patriotism. I will always be a patriot and an American, but that’s not to say I won’t fight for American freedom from both outside and inside, at different times, as necessary, and I may not stand idly by and surrender what is rightly mine just because corrupt men demand it. We should do what we need to do, and remain honorable men and women, but we should not let liars and politicians decide for us what is honorable and what is not.

More about the contractual stuff later. You’re the expert on that, and you’re going to make me do my homework. 🙂

>> Don’t ever let an adversary convince you to honor an agreement you never made. Remember Braveheart? Mel: “When did I ever swear allegiance to this man?” Inquisitor: “It matters not. He is your king.” Bullshit! This country is made up of sovereign states that entered into a union as such and were betrayed by misguided men into believing that they somehow, inexplicably, have no right to leave. Bullshit! It simply isn’t true, and the Civil War IN NO WAY settled the matter otherwise.<<
Agreed, and then some…Actually, this country is made up of Sovereign INDIVIDUALS, beholden to no one, which precedes and trumps even our Constitution and Amendments. This was the point or our Revolution. Do your homework, folks…

Hoot’s right, Zoph. Good thoughts; I’m glad you took the time to express ’em. I apologize if my grouchiness is ever an impediment to you or anyone feeling free to write what they really think. That, I would really regret.

Eh, no biggie m’dear! I generally have the opposite problem, so I figure we balance each other out here on the blog. Though, my co-workers can tell you I’ve been a lot more . . . curmudgeonly since last Wednesday morning.. . . clearly my near-infinite patience is beginning to run out . . .

FWIW. I give some credit to most of what the “NoSign” article. If we can’t behave as and live out the American Spirit now then we will be piss poor at it if secede. By that I mean, All these companies adding surcharges cover taxcare and layoffs and plant closings is BULLSHEETSKI. If all of them, together, did not comply well, when their numbers were added to those companies already waivered, it would be an epic fail for taxcare. If we blindly accept and not face the confrontation of challenging the Regime, how we gonna run a new program? The only way we would be successful would be to end up being just like what we are running from — mandates to control. The assumpiton is we must obey because this is America and we operate within rule of law. Well, some little asswipe is giving out rules and mandates that are not his or his cronies to handout. What do we pussies do? We take the higher “moral grouind” of no conflict and engage in some serious avoidance ….. we want to secede. Is that indication we have the guts, the intestinal fortitude, and THE American Spirit to suceed at secession? (Part thinking aloud, part conveying disgust for the companies and corps that could actually save us and don’t, part opinion, and part devil’s advocate this morning — all pre-coffee, too)

Since the election, I have stayed away from commenting on certain topics, because I will get highly emotional and probably post things that I really shouldn’t. I’ve been depressed, which is not a good thing for me. I try not to cry, shake it off, do my usual compartmentalizing of my emotions. It’s hard this time. I’m still sad but now I’m pissed. Anger, that will be my motivation. I’m at my best when I’m angry…

On this whole secession thing, the administration is loving it. They’re sitting back and laughing, they want that to happen. Sending a message to them? No, its not, not the message that we want it to be. I’m not belittling anyone for liking the idea or signing a petition. It should be a rallying cry for people to come together. Hell yeah, we need to take a stand. We have to get nasty and play dirty with this evil administration. Civil war, yeah it’s coming. I started feeling this in my bones the last few years of the Clinton administration. Hubby’s been hearing rumblings from unlikely people. People whom we never thought we’d hear things like this coming from them. I’m talking liberal pacifists who are slowly seeing the light, who are sick and tired of politicians and all the bullshit.

To win, we have to think like this communists in order to beat them, be 2 steps ahead of them. Out-think them. Change the culture. Yes, we do have to take a stand. Start local, rally like-minded people together, recruit new people, infiltrate the enemy camp, take a stand together and conquer. Take it to ’em. (I’m not talking about guns or anything like that, I pray it doesn’t come to that, but I’m ready if it does.) You have to think like a criminal to catch a criminal. Know what I mean? It’s going to get ugly and nasty real quick. It won’t be over anytime soon. It took us years to get to this point and it’ll take us years to correct and change it.

It’s sad that too many people are like ostriches, with their heads stuck in the sand. Too many lemmings out there, too, and they’re dangerous because they are so ignorant. I’m done being nice to idiots. Feel sorry for them. F%$k no!!! Educate them? I’ve tried. This honey badger doesn’t care anymore. Leaving the country? Hell no!! America’s my home, damn it!! I’m not going anywhere!

Sing it, Sister! Stand your ground. Don’t be depressed, though, if you can help it. There is always hope. You don’t need to see it; it’s there. You’re certainly not going to see much of it in that office of yours! 😉

Okay, I’ve had it! People whining with their “feelings” about secession! We don’t need no stinking “feelings”. That’s bullshit. People moaning about feelings and changing the culture first don’t realize that there is no saving the “culture”. The culture doesn’t want to save you! They are happy to snuff you and yours out! Which culture to save: pornography on every channel, TV shows that make white men look ridiculous and white women look as whores. Black rappers as celebreties, illegal immigrants as victims, etc. Why are people buying more guns when sales are already high? Because when the police can’t get to your house to save you, you will need lots of ammo and back up weapons if possible. Women did not fight the revolution, men did and that is why we won. I recommend commenters read Matt Bracken’s books and see what women can do. I have sick, elderly relatives who won’t be traveling if shtf. We will do our best but no whining. When they come for you, “feelings” will get in the way of your aim.

Well, that’s the robot contingent spoken for, glad to know where they stand. For the rest of us flawed humans, we’re sorting out the emotional crap now so that it can be properly controlled and chanelled. Eradicating emotions all together is the fastest way to becoming your own worst enemy. And if you notice, most of what is written above is simply sorting out the emotional response from the intellectual, writing down for others to give input, so that logic and reason my direct our actions. And not emotional responses like “Okay, I’ve had it! People whining with their “feelings” about secession! We don’t need no stinking “feelings”. That’s bullshit. . . “

Second, re: changing the culture. The only option other than attempting to change the culture —while preparing for/ carrying out physical confronation– is slaughter. Every Man, Woman and Child. And then, how do you tell who to kill and who not? Where’s the line? How “Pure” do your thoughts have to be before you’re satisfied that you’ve killed off enough people? How do you test for that? It’s not a physical thing, like Old School Genocide. You’re talking something even bigger. More insidious. The very thing we’d fight against, right? Are we thinkging pre-emptive massacres?

“Changing the Culture” is what Paine, Franklin and Jefferson were all about– and they still had to deal with Hamilton. The “changing the Culture” efforts of these men and others is what allows us even the idea of something other than what we currently have. Of course it will be difficult. This is a flawed, sinful world, and Satan is quite active these days. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try everything. Because if we have our merry war and, God help us, emerge victorious at the far end. . . if we haven’t even tried to change the culture, then we’ll end up in this exact same place again in a few decades and, this time, we’ll be the Nazi’s that everyone fears to be.

Some people think that there’s only ever one front in a war, that only the physical fighting is important. I’ll not degrade the importance of the actual physical fight, but there’s always, always more to it than just that. Things like strategy, propoganda and psy-ops (both of which touch on “changing the Culture”, much as the Reds have done so very successfully here), various uses of intelligence and information . . . You go ahead and try to fight a “just physical war”. You’ll loose, every time.

You make some good points here, Zoph, but I do hesitate to agree with your last statement. In fact, I consider the notion that “just war is impossible” to be one of the most corrosive and pervasive modern myths. It’s true that a clean war is impossible. It’s true that a sinless war is impossible. But it’s also true that a clean and sinless life is impossible. We come into this vale of tears bloody and screaming. Many of us leave it the same way. Why do we think the interim must be devoid of it? We should get used to the reality of this world and our responsibilities in it. I fear, the sooner the better.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment regarding saving the culture. The media sure makes it look bad but that’s what they do best. This is how they try to get us to accept certain things as “normal’ IE… most people did not occupy Wall Street. The gays on TV do not represent the majority of America. Now here’s the problem…. gun owners. We can’t get our act together. Far too many gun owners do not vote pro-gun.
“Romney is no better than Oblamer”
“I’m didn’t vote cause my guy wasn’t listed”
“I’ll wrote in a protest vote”
“He’s a friggin Mormon”
“My union endorsed Oblamer”
“I’m a liberal gun owner” – my favorite
I’ve heard all of these in recent discussions at various gun-oriented sites.
All these excuses are BULLSH!T. Priorities!!!!
If gun owners are too stubborn or too stupid to grasp the importance of the 2nd Amendment and how it affects our basic liberty then Yes all is lost. But I think this can be fixed. Gun owners must fix this problem amongst ourselves before we can hope to fix anything else. We are part of the problem.

Barnslayer, so I guess what we see on TV is not real, the media is making it all up, is that it? I live in the Chicago area and can tell you TV is not an aberration, and the libs here are just itching for the conservatives to disappear. Even the so-called conservatives here are liberal, they just don’t know it. The problem is gun owners, really? The problem couldn’t be the systematic destruction of western values since the 1960’s, could it? Oh, and zmalfoy, what kind of heat do you stock at home, or do you conceal carry in your Whole Foods recyclable bag?

AG, you provoked a somewhat passionate response from ZMalfoy. Please do not allow that to make you assume too much about her, or Barnslayer. You might not want either one of them to start listing their hardware. It could take all day. 😉

AG, I live on Long Island and am self-employed in NYC (W57th) since 1983. I take the A train subway (formerly known as the Haarlem Express) from Penn Station each day. NYC is not my idea of heaven but is is a far cry from the BS you see on TV or in the movies. It’s called editing. If I were allowed to CCW I would. I have a pistol permit since I was 21 and own numerous other firearms. I am an NRA instructor. I am a registered Republican and have been since my first time voting. My choices for this past election were not on the ballot so I voted for Romney.
Like I said above the problem is gun owners that don’t vote as a pro-gun block.
So who did you vote for?

Okay, let’s play! I spent a few years in New York and New Jersey in the 80’s, traveling via Penn Station and subway to Queens. You are right, NY didn’t look like tv, it was worse. You are obviously a tough guy, NRA and all. I had the opportunity to service in the USMC, Vietnam, 1968-69. Right after TET. Where were you? And zmalfoy, OPSEC, really? Same question, where were you in ’68?

AG, you may be a big man and all, but you’re also, apparently, an ass who directs all of his anger at those who would fight on his own side. We don’t waste time with pissing contests around here. Go somewhere else.

OPSEC, yes, because I have to take fecking training on it every 6 months for my job, and even if I didn’t, I’ve gotten it drilled into my skull through the prepper community over these past decade or so. And, because I know through firsthand experience thanks to another person on this site how even the most innocuous of comments can be used to positively ID someone’s real life identity. If you’re not giving at least a little thought about OPSEC with every comment you write, then it means that you are not serious about anything you’re writing. It means that you don’t really believe that people/ the government can possibly have bad motives and sneaky ways. In short, it means you are a fraud.

Yanno, Alex, I wasn’t going to reply to this comment at first. I was just going to let the men handle this. The fact is, I’ve been good, lately, and haven’t told off people even when sorely tempted. But you have managed to push many of my rarely pushed buttons, you are going after my friends, and that is enough for me to forget my manners and generally peaceable nature.

You don’t know me. You don’t know us. Don’t come in here presuming that you know any of us, our backgrounds, our stories. Even if you read our little author blurbs, remember that’s really a blurb about nothing. You are making a lot of assumptions based on practically nothing, and if it weren’t so irritating, it would be hilarious. So please, stop embarrassing yourself.

And answer Barnslayer’s question before you say anything else. Otherwise you will be deemed a DHS-sponsored troll, and will be escorted from the premises.

Hey AG! For such experience that you have, I would think you’d have a little more maturity… at least more than that of a tantrum-throwing teenager. You are big let down. You know, I thank you for your service, really! Unfortunately, it seems it’s done nothing for you in the way of morals and principles let alone wisdom. Get some anger management! Get ahold of your emotions, then come back and talk sense. Oh, and don’t mess with my friends! You’ll probably end up in an embarrassing situation like now. Sheesh! Some people.

Excuse me? I’ve stepped into a whole foods once in my life, to buy a bottle of juice and get a parking pass validated. And, no, didn’t use such a bag because I put the juice in my backpack, which I use instead of a purse.

As for what I have in my personal armory– like hell am I gonna proclaim that online, and to a stranger no less. What kinda OPSEC do you run if you’re doing that?! There are some people around here that I may tell in private, but what I have is not something I’m posting for the whole world to see. Much less if I carry or not. Criminy, I know I’m not the sharpest kunai in the sheath, but that would just be retarded.

Um, many years ago, ol’ Baron Von Rothschild said that whoever controls the money could care less who runs the government. This scenario has been playing out in our USA ever since the conflab at Jekyl Island that established the Federal Reserve, giving control of our money to a small group of private robber barons and making the rest moot…unless we each are aware and act accordingly- deal in real value, for example trading goods and services for goods and services that have intrinsic value, rather than perfectly good paper made worthless by having been printed on by the US Mint… Actually, Fed Reserve Notes probably do qualify as a commodity to those who need toilet paper, I guess…

Seems a lot of replies here to such a “settled” subject. Perhaps the subject was never settled at all only beaten down by tyrannical force of arms.
“The principle, on which the war was waged by the North, was simply this: That men may rightfully be compelled to submit to, and support, a government that they do not want; and that resistance, on their part, makes them traitors and criminals.
No principle, that is possible to be named, can be more self-evidently false than this; or more self-evidently fatal to all political freedom. Yet it triumphed in the field, and is now assumed to be established. If it really be established, the number of slaves, instead of having been diminished by the war, has been greatly increased; for a man, thus subjected to a government that he does not want, is a slave.” Spooner “No Treason” 1869