The carbon-15 .223 pistol recoils a whole lot more than a .223 rifle. Not sure why they make a special note of saying that it is low recoil...

xenophobe

04-14-2006, 6:52 PM

The special notice is that it has far more penetration than any standard pistol cartridge and to "watch your ***" and may be a reason why this pistol will get banned in several different states...

Major Miner II

04-14-2006, 7:05 PM

The special notice is that it has far more penetration than any standard pistol cartridge and to "watch your ***" and may be a reason why this pistol will get banned in several different states...
Woo Hoo!

Already got mine. ;)

BTW, that's an IOM in the pic. Not a USG.

bear308

04-14-2006, 7:29 PM

I love looking at things on the internet that say, this is not for public dissemination,;)

artherd

04-14-2006, 10:41 PM

Glad I already got mine! Fantastic gun, controlled double-taps are fast and easy. It makes a Glock (previous standard for lightweight) feel like a lead brick. Great carry gun.

Stanze

04-14-2006, 11:33 PM

That round is a hot one, no doubts there. I alway's thought the FN looked like a pellet gun. But, thanks to that notice I want one now!:) Not because I wanna shoot cops, but because I want to buy it before they tell me I can't....see how that works gun grabbers?:rolleyes:

Cheers to the former president Bill Clinton, the worlds' greatest gun salesman!:D

EBWhite

04-14-2006, 11:52 PM

I don't see too much point in an AR-15 .223 pistol. Really nothing more than a range toy....

Sure, it can be using in a combat situation but i'd rather have an SBR AR so you can hold onto the thing...or an AR pistol in 9mm-much better option!

If you want to stick with a real good pistol get a krinkov :-)

chickenfried

04-14-2006, 11:57 PM

Does it really have 60% less recoil than a 9mm?!

KimoBBZ

04-14-2006, 11:59 PM

Was pricing around... why such a price diff. between the IOM and USG? Also saw a couple of out of state FFL's not willing to ship to CA, yet they are on the CA list??

Does it really have 60% less recoil than a 9mm?!
I would say so, yes. It's a very lightweight gun, and a comparably lightweight 9mm (Sig 239? Some lightweight khar or such?) would be a handfull.

As it is, very controlable and *accurate* gun. Flat to 100yds too. One of my favourite pistols.

Rumpled

04-15-2006, 12:55 AM

Right now, I'm too drunk to read that ad info, (Whoo whoo Friday nite)
But I love my 5.7
I think FN should make a compact to only take 10 rounds.
It would be one hell of a CCW piece.
As it is, I flinch every time I shoot mine.
It's not the recoil, it's the cost of ammo.

Stanze

04-15-2006, 12:56 AM

Right now, I'm too drunk to read that ad info, (Whoo whoo Friday nite)
But I love my 5.7
I think FN should make a compact to only take 10 rounds.
It would be one hell of a CCW piece.
As it is, I flinch every time I shoot mine.
It's not the recoil, it's the cost of ammo.

LOL on ammo costs!

Pablo

04-15-2006, 1:22 AM

Was pricing around... why such a price diff. between the IOM and USG? Also saw a couple of out of state FFL's not willing to ship to CA, yet they are on the CA list??

The IOM has become more of a collectors item since FN stop producing the 2 IOM versions. (One with tactical rail and one with out it.)

jdberger

04-15-2006, 1:59 AM

Nothing personal, but I'd rather that info on how to defeat body armor not be posted. Too much info for the bad guys (let them do their own research) and too much ammo for the antis. They've already got a hard-on for this little pistol. I dread that it turns into another KTW/Blue Rhino/teflon bullet thing.

Just my .02.

shopkeep

04-15-2006, 3:22 AM

And here I was completely uninsterested in the Five SeveN. Guess I'll have to buy it now thanks to liberal adds like this one.

well it definitely looks like a good candidate for further "banning".. i guess it's time to get a FiveSeveN. It seems every time something is suspect for banning, I immediately start to want it. I saw the fiveseven the other day and had zero interest in the gun... but now, from what i've been reading, it may be time to get one..

guns_and_labs

04-15-2006, 7:56 AM

I want to buy it before they tell me I can't....see how that works gun grabbers?:rolleyes:

Cheers to the former president Bill Clinton, the worlds' greatest gun salesman!:D
+1

One gun a month, that's all we ask... I know what next month's gun will be.

(It does look like a water pistol, though. Pity there isn't a non-dweeb version, maybe a 1911?)

dwtt

04-15-2006, 10:08 AM

Isn't the armor penetrating ammo not being sold by FN in the US? Or is that warning of being able to penetrate 48 kevlar layers for the jacket lead bullet?

Major Miner II

04-15-2006, 10:22 AM

Isn't the armor penetrating ammo not being sold by FN in the US? Or is that warning of being able to penetrate 48 kevlar layers for the jacket lead bullet?
SS190 and the othe AP rounds are to be sold only to LEOs.

Of course, that doesn't mean they're not out there.

The SS192 and SS195 can penetrate Kevlar too, just not to the extent the SS190 can. They do yaw nicely once they hit the target tho.

One of the other "problems" associated with the FiveseveN is it's range. It's accurate to a pretty decent distance.

thisismyboomstick

04-15-2006, 10:24 AM

They're kinda blowing this out of proportion. The only way that pistol (the 5.7) can penetrate armor to the level they're stating is when the AP SS190 ammo is used. Ammo of that type has been illegal since the '80s for civilians. Go try to find some. You won't. The new commercially available 5.7 ammo uses a V-max varmint type bullet that is specifically designed to fragment on impact. I'd bet my bottom dollar that in the incident they describe the perp wasn't using SS190.

artherd

04-15-2006, 12:17 PM

Which side of the phonebook is that? Entrance or exit?
Exit, I could fit most of my fist into the exit cavity.

As to the Laughable OHSP memo, well yeah finding COVER might be a good idea...

I've seen a .22LR penetrate a railroad car, an old steel refrigerator, and then exit out the other side. Guns, like, shoot stuff, you know.

Boomer1961

04-15-2006, 12:53 PM

Man, looks like another ban!:mad:

These bans are getting expensive.:p

Now I need to find another pile of cash to buy this before it is banned!:cool:

I wish they would stop banning firearms as I am going broke just trying to keep up!

And now I have what the anti's would call an arsenal, all because of these bans.

I wonder if I should start a club, the "BANAHOLIC's" who have to buy every firearm that gets banned.

As for the warning, I know those one's with guns and gun battles are exciting and sexy, but are there ones for reminding them to wear seat belts since vehicle accidents are a huge safety issue for most LE? or how about high speed pursuits that seem to kill alot of unsuspecting civilians? Or how about automobiles that go way faster than the law allows as being dangerous tools of criminals in evading law enforcement. I have yet to see a high speed automobile banned, though it is clearly a favorite of would be Al Qaeda terrorist in the US, and we know the only purpose of a fast car is to commit crime and getting away with it.;)

These types of bulletins, as everyone that posted here realizes, is just the first step in getting these things banned. And another pain in my wallet as I figure out how to buy one or for ever wish I did.

xenophobe

04-15-2006, 2:25 PM

There has been talk of banning this firearm since it came out... nothing has happened yet, but I would imagine that it's only a matter of time.

leelaw

04-15-2006, 2:45 PM

God damn it... SS190 is not available to civilians - the one the stupid alert mentions.

How about you post ballistic information for the rounds civilians CAN get, you schmuck!

THE SKY IS FALLING!

EBWhite

04-15-2006, 3:22 PM

Yes, ss190 can be purchased by civilians!
Check out gunbroker. However, having loaded AP pistol ammo in CALI is illegal according to state law. Dealers cannot sell ap pistol rounds in the US, but you can buy it on the private market or reload yourself legally!

leelaw

04-15-2006, 4:02 PM

Yes, ss190 can be purchased by civilians!
Check out gunbroker. However, having loaded AP pistol ammo in CALI is illegal according to state law. Dealers cannot sell ap pistol rounds in the US, but you can buy it on the private market or reload yourself legally!

Sorry, should have said "SS190 SHOULD not be available" ;)

dwtt

04-15-2006, 5:40 PM

Sorry, should have said "SS190 SHOULD not be available" ;)
If one can buy armor penetrating ammo on gun broker, then somewhere down the supply chain after the FN distributor is a law enforcement officer, dealer, or distributor who is selling it to civilians. Why won't the BATF go after these rotten apples like they go after law abiding citizens who buy handguns at a Virginia gun show?

ohsmily

04-15-2006, 5:42 PM

Yes, ss190 can be purchased by civilians!
Check out gunbroker. However, having loaded AP pistol ammo in CALI is illegal according to state law. Dealers cannot sell ap pistol rounds in the US, but you can buy it on the private market or reload yourself legally!

Show us a link b/c it sure isn't there now.

jessegpresley

04-15-2006, 11:14 PM

Does it really have 60% less recoil than a 9mm?!

You misread the bulletin. It says 60% of the recoil, not 60% less recoil.

60% of the recoil is 60% remaining.

60% less recoil is 40% remaining.

EBWhite

04-16-2006, 1:07 AM

I cannot find the link to SS190, i have seen in on GB before...
However, you see ss192, non ap but the HP version that will not be imported anymore according to FN- tests show they will go through a level III vest...

I have been looking, does anyone know where to buy heavy steel/AP bullets? (just the bullets, not the complete cart.)

antarius

04-16-2006, 7:41 AM

In general I am for the people being able to purchase basically any kind of firearm they choose; Including AR-15's and AK47's... for some reason, as much as I like the FN FiveSeveN, it does scare me that it's on the market.

I'm not so "nervous" about someone coming at me with an AR or some other long rifle because, well, I "feel" like I'll "see it coming" (whether or not this is true is an entirely different story), but with an FN... the idea of it zipping through my vest/soft/hard trauma plate like nothing.. and never having the chance of seeing it in the first place is disturbing.

That said... I'm still not quite at the point where I'd want to see them off the market -- it just makes me want to put on my side! HAHAHAHAH

WokMaster1

04-16-2006, 9:56 AM

Wait a minute. Is there any info as to where this BG got these weapons? Wasn't he a felon? How did he come in contact with these weapons? Can someone with the info chime in?:)

Update: the Five-seveN was apparently purchased by his girlfriend.

blacklisted

04-16-2006, 3:09 PM

The .224 Boz is a superior round made from a necked down 10mm case. It can be fired through any 10mm pistol so long as the barrel is changed to a .224 Boz chambering and the recoil spring is reduced in weight. The .224 Boz provides a higher velocity than the FN round, and can be loaded with M855 (SS109 steel core) 62 bullets.

Very interesting:

.224 BOZ

The .224 BOZ was developed by Civil Defense Supply, located in the United Kingdom, and was begun as a Special Forces ammunition project for police and military use. In short, the concept was to design a new pistol cartridge that would deliver significantly more power than the current 9mm Parabellum as used in both handguns and submachine guns. The two main requirements were that the cartridge be adaptable to existing firearms and that it be able to penetrate CRISAT armor (1.5mm titanium plate reinforced with 20 layers of Kevlar) and generate a PIH level of 0.6 or greater.

It was decided that the bullet chosen be one of proven design and so the 5.56mm round as used by NATO forces was selected. Not only was there a significant amount of data already collected on this bullet design, but it was also available in numerous configurations such as armor piercing, tracer, ball, and frangible. In looking for a starting point for the cartridge case both the 9mm Parabellum and the .40 S&W were looked at and then quickly dismissed as possible candidates because both lacked the case capacity to generate the required energy and velocity. The 10mm Auto was then chosen both for its power potential and existing firearm platforms readily convertible to the new cartridge.

The original test-bed for the .224 BOZ was a Colt Delta Elite. Using lightweight 50gn 5.56mm bullets velocities ranging from 1,750fps to 2,200fps were obtained. Eventually the Glock 20 was chosen as the foundation for the .224 BOZ PPW (Personal Protection Weapon) due to its "positive lock between barrel and frame." (It must be noted though that in this caliber a 5.5" barrel is considered "compact" and a 6.5" barrel is "standard.") For the carbine/submachine gun platform the HK MP5 was selected Not only is the MP5 series of submachine guns one of the most popular around the world, but it is also available in 10mm (though no longer in production). Royal Ordnance and Heckler & Koch worked together to develop the .224 BOZ PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) which is basically an HK MP5/10 chambered for the .224 BOZ round. Reportedly there is also a .224 BOZ PDW based on the AR15 platform, but apparently this is still under development.

http://www.bren-ten.com/id7.html

Pulsar

04-16-2006, 6:32 PM

There's another round out there that can penetrate body armor (though not to the extent of the five-seven), and it's cheap. 7.62x25 is quite capable of penetrating soft body armor. Lots of it out there, and lots of very cheap handguns that shoot it. The five-seven is just somethign the anti's love to go after since it was actually designed for penetrating body armor, but there are many guns and ammo types capable of it. Mainly it just takes small high velocity bullets. .17 HMR probably has some pretty good armor penetrating characteristics, though not the stopping power, and it's just a rimfire.

You mean THAT round went through the phone book AND came out still in perfect form in it's case?

WE ALL NEED A GUN LIKE THAT! :D(1 smiley)

Several years ago I met a guy to look at a couple of guns he had for sale; H&K USP .45, and a FN 5.7.

I opted for the ugly gun...oops, I mean the purty gun, not the uglier one :p (2 smiley)

Little did I know... (3rd smiley BANNED because of artherd's smiley and image in quotes... who'd a thunk it? )

ALTSEC972

04-16-2006, 7:44 PM

Isn't this all about lb force/ square inch???

I think the .223 hydroshock is one of the only mass produced rounds out there to penetrate titanium plating for autos ( that is legal to civi's that is).

the 5.7 seems like an awesome round. I presume this is why the Secret Service went to it not too long ago. I have actually been thinking about building an AR57 (5.7mm upper for one of my off list lowers). It's legal, minute recoil, very accurate, and has tons of stopping power.... what more could a guy need???

Justang

04-16-2006, 8:15 PM

I think I need to get one of these.

rips31

04-17-2006, 12:54 PM

However, you see ss192, non ap but the HP version that will not be imported anymore according to FN- tests show they will go through a level III vest...
ss195 is the same as ss192, just w/o the lead primer. better for those that want to have kids one day. :D

rips31

04-17-2006, 12:57 PM

They're kinda blowing this out of proportion. The only way that pistol (the 5.7) can penetrate armor to the level they're stating is when the AP SS190 ammo is used. Ammo of that type has been illegal since the '80s for civilians. Go try to find some. You won't. The new commercially available 5.7 ammo uses a V-max varmint type bullet that is specifically designed to fragment on impact. I'd bet my bottom dollar that in the incident they describe the perp wasn't using SS190.
you're talking abt the ss196/ss197. the ss192/ss915 yaws, but doesn't fragment like the 196/197.

rips31

04-17-2006, 12:59 PM

I have actually been thinking about building an AR57 (5.7mm upper for one of my off list lowers). It's legal, minute recoil, very accurate, and has tons of stopping power.... what more could a guy need???
it being legal? not quite sure how you'd get around the detachable mag/pistol grip/etc restrictions.

wait for the kali-legal version that uses pistol mags. it's supposed to be a concept that *might* be developed, pending interest.

saki302

04-18-2006, 2:30 AM

I think a few tests were done on the five seven forum- SS192/195 will not penetrate a IIIA vest panel. I think it probably works similar to a 7.62x25 tokarev in terms of penetration. Only the SS190 is truly AP, and we can't buy it.

-Dave

xrMike

04-18-2006, 11:54 AM

Anyone see "CSI:Miami" last night?

In the story, they made a big deal out of this round, after finding some in a dead bad guy's pockets... Obviously he was up to no good if he had high-powered rounds like these, rounds that could penetrate up to "46 layers of Kevlar" "go through bullet-proof glass", etc. etc. The guns that the bad guys were using this round in looked like something from outer space. Never seen anything like them before. They used them to rob a bank or something... It was interesting how they demonized the caliber. Anybody who wanted to use 5.7 was obviously up to no good...

Have to give the show's writers some credit though -- they keep up on the latest developments in the gun world. Or maybe they're just regulars here on calguns.net, I don't know.

rips31

04-18-2006, 12:00 PM

I think a few tests were done on the five seven forum- SS192/195 will not penetrate a IIIA vest panel. I think it probably works similar to a 7.62x25 tokarev in terms of penetration. Only the SS190 is truly AP, and we can't buy it.

-Dave
not entirely true. the t194, l191, and sb193 are also ball ammo, which would have ap properties. i believe the l191 and sb193 are also restricted, while the t194 is discontinued. :)

anotherted

04-18-2006, 1:04 PM

And here I was completely uninsterested in the Five SeveN. Guess I'll have to buy it now thanks to liberal adds like this one.
LOL same here. Now i GOTTA have one....

VeryCoolCat

04-18-2006, 1:06 PM

I've known for years that this gun is much more powerful than anything I had seen when I first saw one of the bullets like (2-4?) years ago. My first thought looked like a mini-rifle bullet.

Though now i'm learning its even more better. Too bad I can't buy handguns yet..

Don't forget its downside. the grip is pretty large and your looking at 35¢ (if you buy in massive bulk) to 50¢ a round.

ohsmily

04-18-2006, 1:10 PM

Don't forget its downside. the grip is pretty large and your looking at 35¢ (if you buy in massive bulk) to 50¢ a round.

If you buy one, it might be a good idea to reload.

rips31

04-18-2006, 1:28 PM

Anyone see "CSI:Miami" last night?

In the story, they made a big deal out of this round, after finding some in a dead bad guy's pockets... Obviously he was up to no good if he had high-powered rounds like these, rounds that could penetrate up to "46 layers of Kevlar" "go through bullet-proof glass", etc. etc. The guns that the bad guys were using this round in looked like something from outer space. Never seen anything like them before. They used them to rob a bank or something... It was interesting how they demonized the caliber. Anybody who wanted to use 5.7 was obviously up to no good...

Have to give the show's writers some credit though -- they keep up on the latest developments in the gun world. Or maybe they're just regulars here on calguns.net, I don't know.
lol...the bald guy called it a 'monster round.' monster my *****. that thing is smaller than a 9mm. sheesh.

That round and gun is pretty nice...When I looked around for something like this I found and bought a CZ52 7.62x25 round is pretty stout and will give the 5.7x28 a run for its money when you weigh in the fact a NIB CZ52 runs well under $175.00 and ammo is,