Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 255324

This board seems so crowded that it seems a new thread would get lost.

However, my need is great and the problem has been ongoing for over a year. His delusion is of the paranoid and somatic type, but it began as the jealous subtype, him believing I was cheating on him.

With out going into many details yet, I was wondering if anyone had similar problems and what they might be doing about it. Meds are out of the question of course, because he doesn't believe he needs them. "you can lead a horse to water..."

In reply to dealing with a delusional disordered husband, posted by habbyshabit on August 29, 2003, at 12:20:50

No, your thread won't get lost. I wish I had some great words of wisdom...

I assume he won't go to therapy either? Does he know he has a problem? Sometimes it helps to point out reality when he is seeing something else - but sometimes then he'll just think that YOU don't know reality.

Sometimes you get farther if a Doctor tells him that he need meds or therapy. Could you talk to his doctor and give him a heads up before the next time he goes in? Alternatively, you might get him to go with you to marriage counseling (because you are so upset that he is jealous?). Then the marriage counselor might be able to convince him to do something.

In reply to dealing with a delusional disordered husband, posted by habbyshabit on August 29, 2003, at 12:20:50

I have been delusional and my husband has had to contact my pdoc who then would talk me into taking meds. If your husband has no relationship with a pdoc, then may I suggest that you get some counselling and support? The therapist may have some useful suggestions for you to use, but more importantly this is a very difficult thing for you to be going through and you should have support.take care, judy

In reply to Re: dealing with a delusional disordered husband » habbyshabit, posted by judy1 on August 29, 2003, at 18:03:57

I don't know where you're from but the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill has support groups for family members of people with mental illness around the country - you might find some folks to commiserate with and share tips.

In reply to Re: dealing with a delusional disordered husband, posted by kb on August 29, 2003, at 23:44:26

Thank you all for responding.

Let me give a very brief history - without going into too many of the details of the delusion and the associated behavior ( which has never become harmful to him or myself or anyone else - although I could argue that he is committing a sort of mental suicide within the delusion - but that's another post altogether )

At first I tried to educate him about Delusional Disorder as defined in the DSM3. I tried to say there were two ways to look at what was going on ( this was past the phase where he believed I was having an affair ), either there really were DEA type agents on his case or he was in the midst of this mental illness that medication could cure or at least help somewhat. I asked that if I went along with his theory and wrote letters and went to an attorney with him, etc, would he test my theory and ask his GP for some medication.

He did talk to the GP about it who described it to him as his nervous system misinterpreting signals. Gave him a scrip for Xyprexa and sent us on our way. Well I knew that this was one of the atypicals that caused the most side effects and within two weeks he complained of them, that he didn't really need them, that he was just taking them for me, and quit. I didn't notice any significant change in that time, but the Dr. started him off on a really small dose (5MG)

A few weeks later, I described what was going on to my Psychiatrist, with whom my husband has been atttending every meeting with me, to see if he would take my husband on as a client, even though his practice was closed to new patients. The Pdoc said sure and then turned to me and said, " you know how real delusions are"(i'm bipolar). As if to say, give the guy some grace and space to live in his own world. At least until such time he asks for help himself. This I have been doing and only occasionally express the wish that he would try another round of a different, more tolerable medication. Of course, it's really happening and medication is NOT the answer. So I drop it.

It's a year now. I wonder if it will ever go into remission itself. I wonder if there are things I could say that might nudge it into remission. I lived with this man for over seven years with out a hint of this thing, though family says he has had short bouts with it before.

I feel I'm coping with it pretty well, but do feel isolated with it. He tells no one about it but me. At least he knows how nutty he sounds.

So... That's the Dr. history. Neither one seems to have any desire or feel any need to push meds on him. I mostly am following their lead. I just get very sick of the story line and some of the behavior it induces.

In reply to Re: dealing with the delusional disordered , posted by habbyshabit on August 30, 2003, at 3:02:44

Since you do have bipolar disorder, then at least you are familiar with what he's feeling. The problem sounds like he has schizophrenia, which generally doesn't go into remission like bipolar episodes. Yes the zyprexa dose was very low- but as you probably know it's very difficult to make someone take meds when they don't want to. I like the previous poster's idea of going to NAMI group support meetings because I think the key here is to keep you healthy and functioning so you're able to be there for him if he ever accepts he has a problem. Take care of yourself- judy

In reply to Re: dealing with the delusional disordered , posted by habbyshabit on August 30, 2003, at 3:02:44

Hi Hab, that sounds like a huge challenge. It was clever of you to try to negotiate with him, to get him to try your way in return for you trying his way.

If it were me I'd probably just leave the guy, but I admire your willingness to stick by him. Have you considered just giving up on trying to get him to change? I agree he needs to be on meds, but it may not be possible for you to convince him. Do you have a therapist? Maybe you could get help defining boundaries for yourself, in terms of how you'll deal with the manifestations of your husband's illness.

In reply to Re: dealing with the delusional disordered » habbyshabit, posted by judy1 on August 30, 2003, at 11:52:54

Hi Judy1, thanks for responding.

As defined in the DSM 4, this is not schizophrenia and does not have the degenerative effects of that disorder. Unless he tells you about the thoughts he is having in the one particular area, you would have no idea that he is delusional at all. His functioning with regards to finance, mechanical repair, social interaction, etc are completely normal. If you felt like it, you could google Delusional Disorder and find a good definition of it.

Since he is retired, I couldn't hide the fact that I was attending Nami meetings to get support for his illness. I have to play the game another way. One that is more supportive of where he lives and not an announcement of my lack of faith in him. I guess I am getting support here. I hope to someday have a meeting alone with my shrink, whom my husband comes to see with me, where I can talk more candidly about the situation. My shrink is aware that my husband has the disorder as I said above.

It's not so terrible, really, except in that it gets tiresome sometimes going along with the delusional storyline.

And there is the fear he may be slowly killing himself with the things he believes is happening to him. Not that he's suicidal, just that he believes that the things that the DEA types are doing to him may be destroying his body.

Being Bipolar and having had some pretty good delusions myself does give me lots of empathy for him. It just that I always wake up from mine...

In reply to Re: dealing with the delusional disordered , posted by Tabitha on August 30, 2003, at 14:32:17

Hi Tabitha,

I'd leave the guy, but he IS my husband AND I love him dearly. I lived with him for over 7 years before this started happening. So it's not just some dating situation where red flags go up and you split. I've done that plenty in my time, so I know what you mean.

Actually, I have given up on trying to change him. I still hope the delusion will burn itself out. Except for the occasional references, usually in jest, to meds - I know it's the old story of leading that darn horse to water who refuses to drink. In reality, I hate the thought of him being on anti-psychotics - even the new atypical ones. The potential for horrific side effects is still there. AND from what I read, they may have very little positive effect on this illness, which is not neurological in origin, like bipolar and others.

As far as getting a therapist, I have been dropping seed thoughts that I felt I need one, mostly for dealing the changing nature of my bipolar disorder - though in my heart it's about coping in the long run with his illness. We start a new insurance plan next month and this may make it financially possible to that. I do think it may become more important as the years go by.

In reply to Re: dealing with the delusional disordered, posted by kb on September 1, 2003, at 13:38:55

Hi KB,

I started seeing a new shrink shortly after my husband retired, and just after I returned to the relationship following the breakup we went through over his delusional beginnings of accusing me of having an affair. I came back knowing the true diagnosis after talking to an old shink friend of over 20 years. I thought I only had to deal with the jealousy delusional issues and had lots of stratagies for that. I had no idea it would evolve into paranoid and somatic delusions once the jealousy was resolved.

I asked him if he wanted to participate in the psychiatric sessions since he was able now, being retired, and because my condition had changed before our eyes in the past year. My ulterior motive was for him to become comfortable with a psychiatrist in case the delusional disorder became overly problematic and/or I could convince him to try meds.

When things did reach a problematic peak I brought the issue up in a session - without letting my husband know in advance. That was after the effexor experiment with the GP and it seemed neither of them had any interest in trying to convince my husband of his illness or push meds.

What could I do? The professionals seem to be telling me with out coming out in front of my husband and saying so, that, you can't force my husband towards recognizing the delusional nature of his delusion! Even an attorney made an attempt/without any success.

I don't want to ask my shrink to collude with me and create the situation I desire. I just trust that the time will arise and all will be well.

In reply to Re: dealing with the delusional disordered » kb, posted by habbyshabit on September 3, 2003, at 19:03:25

Just didn't want this thread to fall off the face of the earth. Since it got relegated to the 'last' period, I wanted to see if I could move it to the new one with this post. Pardon the hubris. It's a very important topic to me, as I know all topics are to all.

In reply to Re: dealing with a delusional disordered husband » habbyshabit, posted by judy1 on August 29, 2003, at 18:03:57

Judy, you say you've been dulusional. Is this part of another disorder like bipolar or schizophrenia? Or do you have Delusional Disorder? I wish my husband could see the neen when told, but he only believes his delusion and in that place, meds are not neccessary. I'd like to hear more of your and your husband's experience.

In reply to Re: dealing with delusional disordered Judy 1 , posted by habbyshabit on September 5, 2003, at 6:10:25

> Judy, you say you've been dulusional. Is this part of another disorder like bipolar or schizophrenia? Or do you have Delusional Disorder? I wish my husband could see the neen when told, but he only believes his delusion and in that place, meds are not neccessary. I'd like to hear more of your and your husband's experience.

Hi Hab,My delusional experiences have been part of my bipolar disorder- most often when manic, but at times during depressive episodes. Once treated with an AP, or even with no treatment once the episode is over, I no longer have delusions- which makes me strictly bipolar 1 and not schizo-affective. I guess I thought your husband had schizophrenia because of the paranoid aspect of his delusions, but yes I am familiar with Delusional Disorder and understand that's what he has. For a very long time (maybe 5 years?) I did not believe or rather trust other people's views that my thoughts were messed up rather then theirs. When I am delusional I still REALLY believe my thought processes (like I have extraordinary powers or am god-like- very manic), but I have learned to really trust my husband and pdoc and so I listen to them (not happily, but I do). This took work on my husband's part with meeting with my shrink and learning how to deal with me- very calmly and matter-of-fact- he tells me I need to speak to my shrink and when I do I listen. Again, I have to emphasize that this took years and I can't imagine how difficult it is when it's happening all the time (like with your husband). You must be a very strong lady. take care, judy

In reply to Re: dealing with delusional disordered Judy 1 , posted by judy1 on September 5, 2003, at 12:15:31

Thanks Judy, I must be a strong woman, because life throws me the most amazing curves and somehow I maintain a positive, loving, caring attitude. What's the saying? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!

I too have had delusions. Prior to 1998 they usually quickly preceded and included psychosis. In 1998, I had my one and only floridly manic episode that didn't go psychotic, but I was delusional. I was sure I was going to build a Monastic type facility where channels of all sorts could come and do their work. I had all the details of the buildings and sanctuary filled out in my mind. It would be called Esterbrook Abbey and it would be so sacred a place that Arlon, the group energy I channel, would actually manifest themselves for periods of time.

I drew up a flyer that announced the grand opening would be in 2002 (this was 1998 remember) and sent it out to everyone I knew. Of course, I would be the abbess of this cloister!

Needless to say it was embarrassing when the mania ended and I realized I had announce to friends new and old, that I just had an episode.

The difference between the delusions I have had and my husband's is that even if his delusion ends ( which they have in the past. I know from talking to his daughter and sister ), he remembers them as real and the story remains part of personal history. He never really does wake up from his delusions like we do, they just recede into the past.

Like he still believes all the stuff about the supposed affair I had - and all the hallucinations he had at that time - he just chooses to put it behind us and let go of needing me to admit to it, which I would never, ever do - I shudder to think of the consequences of that. I just pray this delusion fades into history at some point.

He's been saying for two weeks now "they" are almost done. That the sound in his ears is softer, quieter which means they are getting their equipment fixed and when the sound is gone, so will they be. I can only hope this suffering he is in will end soon.

All of what he goes through makes me wonder what in his psyche believes he deserves such punishment and to be betrayed by a woman he loves so deeply. I could get real analytical about it, but it would be a black hole that would suck up all my mental energy so I let it go....

It's cool you have a husband who knows how to treat you respectfully and gently in the midst of delusion. I used to trust my husband's assessments of my mental condition - but since all this began - It is a lot harder to judge whether he is right on or not. I guess I'm back to relying on my own judgement - which we know is not always the best source of objective observation.

In reply to Re: dealing with the delusional disordered, posted by habbyshabit on September 5, 2003, at 6:04:22

dear habby,

... ... this is my 3rd go round trying to write this ... ... efforts last night went into the wee hours and i was getting more and more off my game ... as sleep beckoned ...

your plight, compounded by your husband’s, makes for an unimaginably painful and difficult home life ... .... and a challenge i would not be handling as well as you ... ... ... ... though, i am with you about the non-viability of the any abandonment option(s) ... ... i am always scandalized by the tales from the posters whose husbands have left or are leaving them and/or divorcing them AS these wives are struggling to recover their mental health .... .... sylvia and i feel a much deeper commitment to each other ... ... and even more so since our battle against infertility about a decade ago now ... ... ... turns out we took the “in sickness and in health” parts of our vows pretty seriously ... ...

dramamine abuse

... ... once upon a time, in my foolish youth, my friends and i would take absurd risks in our self-destructive urge to get high ... ... ... we experimented with dramamine and our technique was to just take an overdose ... ... this resulted in a hypnotic conscious state wherein one would have compelling hallucinations while awake from which nobody and nothing could dissuade you ... ... as i painfully discovered, even the police, handcuffs and jail could not dissuade me ... ... “high”? ... i don’t think so

anesthesia

.... years earlier, while i was coming out of anesthesia from surgery ... ... i had awakened in my hospital room to discover it was practically full with my friends and family .... .... my pals were telling us funny stories and as i was laughing my mom asked why was i laughing and who was i talking to ... ... sometimes she wouldn’t get the point to a story, so i began to introduce my mom to my friends so somebody would explain it to her ... ... she asked who was i talking to again ... ... ... “why, my friends here.” ... ... “but son i’m the only one here,” and as i watched, all of the other people in my room faded away ... ... mom and i were alone ... ... the dream from the anesthetic (i believe it was potassium pentothal) was easily punctured by mom’s gentle reality input ... ... ... although it was a little while before i understood that she hadn’t just banished my friends by her sheer intrusion ...

migraines

for maybe a decade before i got married in ’86, i would have these “migraine” episodes ... ... i didn’t know then to call them that ... i just knew i was having undiagnosed neurological symptoms ... ... which i was not going let remain undiagnosed once i was married and had to and wanted to be a responsible and conscientious spouse ... ... i learned that i was describing the classic migraine-induced visual distortions ... ... ... what had defied me was having so little pain with anything called a ‘migraine’ ... ... these episodes which were not even as frequent as once a month, would sometimes subvert as much as 75% of my field of vision ... ... i took some intravenous contrast and had a head CATscan looking for micro-vascular deformities, and of course, tumors ... ... ... neurologist said i had a clean bill of health ... ... ...except he mentioned something about some of my vascular structure(s) being oversized and asked questions to, he said, dismiss this anomaly as causing my episodes or being a risk to my well-being ... ... ... i haven’t an episode in several years now

oliver saks’ ““the man who mistook his wife for a hat””

this is a great book ... ... saks describes some of his clinical experiences (including the title) which have taught us so much about neurobiology ... ... we are all indebted to the patients who’s deficits revealed some of the most surprising aspects of neurophysiology, at the cost of immensely tragic personal suffering ... ... read this book if you haven’t already .. ... restak’s ““the modular brain”” is where i learned about the form of brain damage in which the patient is totally blind due to loss of the vision-processing tissues, while the vision-reporting systems are still fully operational ... ... these folks will insist that they can see ... ... dr. restak recounts, with no small amount of professional shame, allowing himself to be baited by such a patient into challenging the patient to prove he could see ... ... restak’s patient leapt from the hospital bed and ran straight into a wall (where he “saw” the door) breaking his nose ... ... most of these patients come to accept that their “vision” is an illusion ... ... rather more like a cruel hoax to remind them of their blindness, i’d say ... ... sounds as bad as the proverbial rubber bone to the starving dog ... ...

... ... three significant things i learned about neurophysiology:1) there is no central processing unit for the CNS.2) the processor modules are all physiologically indistinguishable, despite great diversity of their assigned tasks.3) every process which would seem singular to us, for instance, vision, turns out to be broken down into more sub-processes than could have been imagined and these processes get assigned to separate locations.

these facts explain many of the bizarre features of some brain damaged patients’ symptoms, such as the blind who believe they can see ... or saks’ title patient

in 1983 i had a motorcycle accident and had an interesting experience with my body wanting to avoid going into traumatic shock ... ... once i came to a stop, having departed my beloved suzuki 1150 which chose to end-o into oncoming traffic, and i could focus through indescribable pain of let’s just leave it at multiple fractures ... ... but endorphins can do amazing things in a big hurry, especially by way of pain relief (to keep me out of shock) ... ... ... once i came to a stop from flying through the air (away from oncoming traffic) one dramatic view of how bad off i was captured my deranged interest ... ... ... as i lie on the asphalt, i could see the consequences of my broken tibia and fibula of my right leg ... i am sure i got to see all four ends of the 2 broken bones exposed to daylight ... once ... i only saw that one time ... ... despite repeated attempts to see it again, every view of my right leg had the fractures’ site edited out ... which drove to really try to see it ... ... my CNS was not going to allow that, once was more than enough ... i wasn’t going to die from my injuries once blood loss was stopped, but dieing from traumatic shock was a threat anyway and my CNS was not going to allow me anymore of that kind of fuel for shock ... and i never got to see it again .. .. i even had other people describe it to me to make sure it really was there ...

neurogenesis

delusion disorder is such an enigma for a diagnosis .... .... belief system aberration without neurological basis.practically unassailable by treatment.

somewhere along the evolutionary line, developing our intelligence required we simulate possibilities, exercise internal virtual reality, relate to a narrative, imagine .. .. .. .. these adaptive needs must have fostered our power to suspend our disbelief ... ... ... for something we must so critically depend on, it has many different ways that it can fail ... ... although the same may be said the CNS and every other vital system .. .. .. such a fragile species; surprising we survive at all ... ... ... our robustness comes from how fully functional we can be even with catastrophic deficiencies ...

... the old view was that we got a finite number of neurons given to us and that we played a zero-sum game with them and it was all down hill from there ... ... now research has shown that we can and do grow new brain cells ... and that these new cells may support healing of damaged brain tissue ... ... new studies indicate the hippocampus shrinks when exposed to stress too long ... ... another study has shown neurogeneisis of hippocampal cells in patients taking antidepressants. ... ... it is being suggested that these new neurons are means of recovery from depression ... ... and that perhaps serotonin levels are merely correlated with depression recovery ... theories ... sorry to bore with information you probably already know ...

mri ?

etiology would be pointless guess work on my part ... ... every evidence suggests this is not a neurotransmitter dysfunction ... ... but the episodic nature of his history suggests that some variable(s) is (are) at work, but it is likely impossible to correlate any influences from the past with any contemporary factors, when the causative forces may never have been visible ... ... but i think about how territorially divided up our cognitive functions are, i get the impression of these shifts in the focus of his deficits, and this reminds me of possibly (slightly?) different areas of the brain being effected ... here lately, first the jealousy area .... then over to the federal persecution area ... ... ... ... ... perhaps, say a vein moves and exerts pressure, then moves back ... ... pressure could then be relieved, but circulation might be decreased elsewhere ... ... ... would it be possible to get any brain imaging done to see if there might be some treatment possibilities there?

more immediately ... ... i’m uncomfortable with your pdoc ... (i know he’ll be concerned} ... ... i want to feel like he can give you the support you need and yet he can not because of your husband’s presence ... ... you are deprived of your therapeutic moment of privacy ... ... and you are trapped in this dilemma by not wanting to alarm him ... ... and non-alarming also precludes accessing support groups ... .. this is bad and needs direct repair ... ... can you contact your pdoc by e-mail confidentially and discreetly? ... just being able to express yourself fully to your pdoc would help your stress from being so pent up and being so trapped ... you need an effective relief and real support ... ... and i do not see you getting it ... ... and my concern is why isn’t your pdoc, or some other of your supporters not seeing this need?

mom

in the last couple of years of my mom’s life she began to show more serious mental problems ... ... for decades dad had come to be slower to speak and showed more frequent memory failures, but it was always in contrast to how sharp mom was ... then mom began to have a personality change and she began to be intensely negative .... and of her 4 children, she became especially hostile to me ... ... it was extremely painful to try to make up with her as she entered her eighties and find her uninterested and distant ... ... i asked my dad what i should do and he told me he didn’t know, but that she remembered every time he had ever made her jealous ... ... they were married for 58 years ... ... ... one day about a year or so before she died, i got a call from her out of the blue ... ... she rarely called us ... my hopes sank .. .. she began, “jim? ... where are my knives? ... don’t fool me! ....you know the ones you took. ... where are they ... i want them back!”turned out she had obsessed with this for most of the previous year and that my father and 2 of my 3 siblings knew about her delusion with me and her knives ... these were some ivory handled knives she was given in the ‘40s ... ... ... they’d turned up missing and she though i’d stole them.

... both of my parents were on significant numbers of medications, for their hearts as well as for mom’s diabetes ... about 6 months before she died, her doctor changed her regimen and reduced the number of meds and dosages ... ... about 3 months later i talked to her on the phone and she sounded so much better and she was friendly and she didn’t mention the knives ... ... i was overjoyed.

after the accident that took both my parents’ lives, i and my sibs were at their house and of course we found mom’s knives ... ... they were where she had always kept them, but just out of her reach ... ... we had a little celebration and they decided to give her knives to me ... ... i really didn’t want them, but for all the aggravation they had caused, i felt better having them than giving them away ... .. ... it could be tempting to leave then at arlington national cemetery next time we go ... ...

with better care and time, mom managed to find her way back in the end ... ... this was a huge blessing for me ... ... i am grateful for it ...

i think of you and you husband when i consider all these things i had to write to you about here ... ... i want you to keep in touch and to use this as your support group at least until you can get to an in-person support group where you can look people in the eye and feel the love directly that i and the rest of us are trying to offer you through this computer and dr. bob’s servers and the internet ... ... this isn’t bad, but you need better ....

In reply to re: dealing with Delusional Disorder, posted by lil' jimi on September 8, 2003, at 2:35:11

> dear habby,> i'm just trying this again to see if i can get the amazon links to work ... j

....

> oliver saks’ ““the man who mistook his wife for a hat””> > this is a great book ... ... saks describes some of his clinical experiences (including the title) which have taught us so much about neurobiology ... ... we are all indebted to the patients who’s deficits revealed some of the most surprising aspects of neurophysiology, at the cost of immensely tragic personal suffering ... ... read this book if you haven’t already .. ... restak’s ““the modular brain”” ......

In reply to re: dealing with Double Double quotes » lil' jimi, posted by lil' jimi on September 8, 2003, at 15:56:15

> > dear habby,> > > i'm just trying this again to see if i can get the amazon links to work ... > j> > ....> > > oliver saks’ "the man who mistook his wife for a hat"> > > > this is a great book ... ... saks describes some of his clinical experiences (including the title) which have taught us so much about neurobiology ... ... we are all indebted to the patients who’s deficits revealed some of the most surprising aspects of neurophysiology, at the cost of immensely tragic personal suffering ... ... read this book if you haven’t already .. ... restak’s "the modular brain" > ......> > > peace,> > > > ~ jim

Sorry about that, the "curly" quotes confused the server... But I thought they worked before. Anyway, I think they're working now...

In reply to re: dealing with Delusional Disorder, posted by lil' jimi on September 8, 2003, at 2:35:11

Oh, sweet Jim,

That was such a beautiful letter, thoughtful, and revealed so much about you not apparent to me before. I feel like I know you in a new, deeper way.

Of course your compassion shines through as always.

I have to write on this thread when my hunny is either sleeping or otherwise pre-occupied with something, like yard work or a run to town. I don't want him to see the title of the thread and maybe understand that I'm doing this, writing about his "disorder", which is a word I have quit using with him for sometime now.

It's 4:30AM now, so I'm prety safe! I'll go back to bed afterwards. I just started a part time job as a milker on a small Dairy farm and my training consisted of doing the morning and evening milkings for 3 days - mostly so I could learn fast so I can help out the other milker some in the next two weeks, because my in-laws are flying in and I'll take the last week of the month off. This my first morning off, but body is soooo sore so I woke up and then took some asprin. My 1st shift alone is tonight - my test, kinda, to see is I can do it myself - and then I'll mostly just have 3 nights a week. In October, after the Harvest, and the other miker returns, I'll just have 2 nights...

The being gone so much these last three days has set my hunny on edge a bit. I'm glad I'm down to nights now. He even asked me if I had a thing going with the guy who owns the Dairy ( very Morman, 7 kids, 68...) It brought back flashs of the beginning of his delusion last August when he was sure I was having an affair. I think it passed quickly ( I hope ). If the delusion where to ever move towards that story line, that I'm cheating on him, I don't know if there are any stratagies that would prevent the disolution of the marriage, though of course I would try. That thought sits in the back of my mind and robs me of any sense of security and settledness a marriage this loving should have.

I start another, 7 hr per week job, at one of the local school district's elementery school cafetarias for an hour and a half each lunch. I'll then have approxamatly 13 hours of work each week between the two jobs. Not much money, cover grocery money kind of thing. The good news is that the woman who hired me told me that once your working in the district a while, they know you are safe around their kids, reliable and all that, they will go out of their way to give you more hours, different kinds of work, and just generally floating around their non-teacher positions until you find a place you like. Even full time if desired, with benefits. I feel like I struck gold with this job since this gives me a sense of sercurity and financial independance that's been lacking - oh thank the cells and neurobiology! for bringing this into my life.

My hunnys delusion has gotten worse lately in that he's beleiving he is being injected through the tush by these DEA types and it's infected his colon. He's been talking about it for a few days, talking more then usual about the "story". It another visit to the doctor to see what's wrong with him and if he should be on anti- biotics.

My fear, if I haven't mentioned it before, is that he is slowly killing himself within the delusion. That if the story doesn't change, and it remains that he is being injected with some "stuff" that is supposed to fix their listening (surveillance) devices so that my husband doesn't hear them listening ( he gets a higher or lower noise in his ears when they have the device on ) he'll just keep coming down with illness after illness which will lead to something that will be actually deadly. He's had an eye infection - that the dr could not figure out the origin of. He's had some thing else, that doen't come to mind just now. It seems like a slow sort of "mental" suicide, which was the diagnois used to secure social security benefits for us kids when my Dad died.

The thing is, he is always saying, if they don't fix that thing soon, they are going to kill me.The have been trying to fix it for 6 months, have followed us to New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah on our vacations. There is a bug in the car and truck, or a tracking device, and they inject him when he sleeps. He "heard" them boring through the wall of the motel in nevada recently. He so plagued by these guys!!!!!

I took you advice and found out if I could Email my shrink to let him know how this may be a very big contributing factor to the rapid cycling I have been experienceing lately.

His secretary said all email goes through her so go ahead and write the story and she'll be sure the doc gets it. At first she thought I was trying to get an appointment for the Hunny but I got her to understand it was about ME and my response to what was happening. I also told her that I'd have to write the letter when the old boy was not around so please be patient.

The Doc is going on vacation in Sept/Oct, I'm not clear on which weeks, but my next appointment is the 9th of Oct so I hope to have it to him as early as possible to give him the time he can find to read it.

Thanks for that suggestion.....

Well, I'm going to go back to bed now - the pain has subsided from the asprin and I'm pretty worn out from 30 dairy cows - not to mention cleaning their Manuree!

Thanks again Jim for the sound wisdom and support. AND for all your personal stories.

In reply to re: dealing with Delusional Disorder » lil' jimi, posted by habbyshabit on September 9, 2003, at 6:22:26

hi Habby,

my note to you was my ramblin' disconnected desperation sort of way to try to offer you a sense of the dimension of my love for you in your plight ... ... ... without any better means to relate to your situation, or even anything to offer as an approach, i just ... ... poured my heart out to you ... along with any of my experiences that might reflect on my small understanding of the neuroscience delusions ... ...

you wrote:> If the delusion where to ever move towards that story line, that I'm cheating on him, I don't know if there are any stratagies that would prevent the disolution of the marriage, though of course I would try. That thought sits in the back of my mind and robs me of any sense of security and settledness a marriage this loving should have. >

you have my support ... always ... but in this potential circumstance, in particular, you have touched the linchpin which you recognize poses a threat to you marriage ... and i do understand this ... ... if his condition turns corrosive against the bonds of trust necessary for a marriage, you would be left with very little recourse ... ... an excruciating consideration to weigh upon you while having to deal with the current "intrigues"' own devastating effects, which are undermining the martrimonial benefits of trust, love, safety and confidence ... ... your choices would be extremely difficult and i respect your decision(s), come what may ... ...

i say these things to emphasize your need(s) for much more support ... you need your own personal 'mental-space' space, significantly free from the "world o' mister habbbyshabit and his dream circus" ... ... you _need_ your therapeutic privacy ... ... you are appraoching "bunker menality", what with having to hide out from his regime ... ... ... .. ... .. which is not good ... ... now, of course, you know all this ... i am only offering that one more person knows this ... ... you need an army of supporters who all know this ... ... ... especially in the event he never knows this in this lifetime ...

... sylvia suggested you contacting your doctor via e-mail ... ... it is gratifying to me that we are making progress in this direction ... ... and that you have been able to emphasize your needs in this situation, separate and apart from other's needs ...

there was a book (here comes another attempt at amazon links), which i have not read, called "The Three Christs of Ypsilanti", ... this was recommended in my abnormal psychology class decades ago ... ... i understand that it conveys the case studies of 3 patients with messianic delusions ... ... the researchers then put all three together in hopes that they would disabuse each other of their delusions by experiencing their parallel fantasies ... ... ... as you can guess this turned out to not be thrapeutically effective ... ... at all ... ... but it served to demonstrate to us the power delusions can have ...

all the while, i think of the cosmic delusion, that this is the only reality, that all sentient beings endure .... .... and that we'd only want a better version of that delusion for your husband ...

please know and believe that i am patient for you to reply at your convenience and i will be understanding of your oppressive circumstances ... ... and i will respond when i get a chance too

In reply to re: dealing with connubial complexities, posted by lil' jimi on September 9, 2003, at 14:02:05

Hi Jimi,

I sent a good long email to my Doc and the receptionist said she forwarded it to him. I have had no reply and may not. They are on vacation the last two weeks of Sept and my appointment with him is the ninth of Oct. It will be interesting to see how he responds.

Would you explain "bunker mentality" a bit more to me. I'm not sure if I'm living that way or not. It doesn't sound good to be if I am !

In reply to re: dealing with connubial complexities, posted by habbyshabit on September 20, 2003, at 0:28:27

hi Habby,

> I sent a good long email to my Doc and the receptionist said she forwarded it to him. >

great !print one out for reference and for your journal ...

> Would you explain "bunker mentality" a bit more to me. > Hab

sorry ... ... i would never have meant to offend ... nor confuse ...

i meant it like 'seige mentality', with the oppression that comes from being beseiged ... ... ... yet here in the sense that he feels ("knows") that he is under seige, and he takes you with him by keeping his delusions a secret that only you share ... ... in the way that it isolates him, he isolates you ... ... in the sense i intended, the bunker was just the expansion of the setting for the seige ... ... i just found this stronger meaning ...

... this is the sense in which you are being held hostage by his bunker mentality ...

of course, you know all these things ... i just wanted to offer you the knowledge that i know them too ... because i don't think enough people in your direct support system know these things ... ... i feel you need outlets that know these things ... ... at very least your psychiatrist should know ...

... being able to open up and confide in someone present, is a human need ... ... this tragedy gets compounded by your needs for a husband who can provide that communion ...

... know that i have you in my heart and that i feel for you and for him ...

In reply to re: dealing with complexities, posted by lil' jimi on September 20, 2003, at 2:08:57

Hi Jimi and Silvia,

Hope I got your wife's name right. I do appreciate her suggestion to email my Shrink.

As far as a bunker mentality as you described it goes - I would say that he is definitely living within the bunker - me - I'm on the outside looking in - amazed at the complexities of his mind and the absolute belief in the validity of his make believe world. I am an observer not a participant in that sense. I decided that I can't change him or his delusions, but I can be interested in them and honor them as real to him. I do occasionally bring up the psychiatric aspect of what he is going though, as I feel that I would be remiss in my role as a wife who loves and cherishes her mate, to not.

Actually, at the moment we have an aggreement that he'll talk to my shrink at the end of October if this is still going on. He believes the DEA types should have their equipment fixed by then and would thus be leaving him alone. So I says, if they are still around harrassing you, would you consider talking to DR H.? Yes, he would. Will he? Only time will tell.

My shrink knows, though we don't talk about it in front of my husband Our GP knows, but we don't talk about in front of my husband and I haven't had reason to see the guy for anything. My husband might be there anyway. An attorney knows, who we went tosee regarding my husbands civil liberties and any possibility of bring a law suit against the Narcotics squad. The attorney knew after listening to my husbands story, that he was way off the wall. We will be seeing this same attorney on the 9th of Oct. about wills and living wills and power of attorney and stuff. My husband's daugter made some inflamatory statements recently that led to getting on the stick about this, which we had to do anyway.

With my Bipolar, it could be used against me to contest any will or power of attorney so we need an attorney to dot the i's right. I don't trust his children at all. And neither does he. This attorney and I have had a few private moments when we have been able to discuss my husbands mental illness. It's been refreshing. I also think that my new jobs could lead to confidences that I don't know of yet. Regardless, I don't have a strong urge of being unsupported. I have you, Jimi, after all!!!!

In reply to living it it's not all that complex » lil' jimi, posted by habbyshabit on September 21, 2003, at 2:45:17

Just wanted to bring this topic back to the front page of psychological babble. I am hoping someone will come along who has experience with living with someone suffering from this illness and may have some feedback and or suggestions for coping and living with such a beloved.