Undermining Uhura

Commander Uhura is a feminist icon. Her role on the bridge of the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) marked a turning point: Uhura illustrated that women could go into space. Uhura was not there as a princess to be rescued, not someone’s wife or girlfriend, not there as eye candy or to pick up after the boys, she wasn’t their emotional support and she didn’t fill a mom role. Uhura was not talked down to or treated differently from the rest of the crew.

Uhura showed me that it was normal for women to achieve great things, that we could be taken seriously in male-dominated environments, and that our sexuality was our own. She was never expected to conform to masculine norms but instead offered a normative femininity, quietly challenging the idea of masculinity as the default rather than merely one option. She was there to explore space and talk to aliens, just like the rest of the crew. And just like Spock, Sulu, Chekov, or Scotty, Uhura was a serious character.

Like many fans of the Star Trek, I have had my reservations about rebooting the series. On the one hand, I am cynical about the reasons behind the reboot, which I will sum up thusly: $$$. On the other, I love Star Trek and I want to see the canon continue to grow.

But, not like this. While we all love Zoe Saldana, the actress stepping into the shoes of the legendary Nichelle Nichols in the reboot, this new portrayal of Uhura is a step backwards, undermining the status of the original character and reducing her from an equal role to a woman’s role.

Our reintroduction to Uhura does not have a promising start: Kirk is hitting on Uhura in a bar.

It is basically an on-screen portrayal of why women feel the need to invent boyfriends to deflect unwanted attention. Later, when Kirk is about to be caught making out with Uhura’s roommate, Gaila, he hides under the bed and then watches the exchange between Gaila and Uhura (while she changes her clothes) before he is inevitably discovered and thrown out of the room

Uhura is alone in the way she is treated here: while we do see Kirk in his underwear in the same scene, he’s shown to be happy and in control of the situation while Uhura is depicted as unsafe in her own room. None of the men are shown in a similarly nonconsenting way, nor hit on by someone they’d like to leave them alone, nor groped – accidentally or not – as part of a bar fight. Uhura is sexualized because she is a woman.

After Uhura kicks Kirk out of her room, we get the second surprise: she is in a relationship with Spock. I understand what a reboot is and that it’s an opportunity to take the original premise and boldly go where the original story did not, but that is not the same as just randomly pairing people off. Had Abrams developed the relationship perhaps this could have been an interesting storyline, but as it is, it’s unclear how or why the pair are involved. Nor does it develop the characters in an interesting way.

More problematically, it puts Uhura in a position where she has to establish her qualifications for her position on the bridge – something she never had to do in the original series. Surely it would have made more sense for Spock to assign her to the Enterprise based on her merits. But instead, because she is a woman her relationship status must always be foremost and must always conflict with her career. Seventeen-year-old Chekov’s competence is not called into question in the same way, nor is Sulu’s – even after he starts the movie by forgetting the parking brake.

Notably, the relationship carries no negative consequences for Spock.

Uhura is also shown doing the typically-female emotional work in the relationship – expressing care and concern for Spock when he is under stress, despite the fact that he is unable to reciprocate that work because of his background. Holy crap, we just found a parallel between 50 Shades of Grey and the Star Trek reboot. My heart hurts.

And it doesn’t stop there. Into Darkness is perhaps worse. Let us set the stage: here we have Sulu in temporary command, Scotty resigning for ethical reasons, Chekov trying to run engineering in Scotty’s absence, and Uhura having relationship issues with Spock. It’s like she’s turned into Deanna Troi and her role is to draw people out and to illustrate their emotions where they can’t.

This isn’t a Next Generation reboot, and if it were I’d expect Troi to act more professionally than that while out on a mission.

It’s unfortunate that the reboot has lost so much of Gene Roddenberry’s original message. The investment in Kirk’s romantic involvements with aliens was about showing that love is not about appearance – in keeping with many other egalitarian and specifically anti-racist themes in the show.1

In the reboot Uhura is made to do more than double duty: to be an officer and a woman means to endure groping and voyeurism, to do the emotional work of a relationship that doesn’t even make sense, and to prove her qualifications because of her personal life. None of this happened to her in Star Trek: TOS, and none of it happens to any of the men in the reboot.

I loved Uhura in Star Trek: TOS because in her I saw a whole future open up for women. A future where we could be ourselves and achieve in a world that welcomed us, but in JJ Abrams’ reboot I see the same old tropes. That no matter what women are capable of we will always be constrained by men’s insecurities, always expected to be emotional caretakers, always vulnerable to the demands placed on our bodies and sexualities. And that a strong character who happens to be female must always be rewritten into an explicitly feminine role. I have heard many criticisms of the reboot ranging from poor plotting to the near-constant use of lens flare, but ultimately what kills it for me is the way Uhura’s autonomy is undermined.

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This article is bullshit. It completely ignores how brilliant she is made to look.

Michael Albright

I disagree. We’re told that she’s brilliant. We see that she’s Spock’s girlfriend, and after the first half of the first movie, not much else.

madmadia85

we’re showed that she’s brilliant, but one gotta watch the actual movies to see that and remove their sexist goggles.
We’re told that Spock, the main character, was a brilliant cadet and a brilliant science officer but when did Spock show his unique skills in his field? Hell, I could say the same about Kirk too because, damn me, I’m not sure I understand his super fast rise to command and I’m not sure I understand why Spock, or Sulu or Uhura can’t be the captain too. What do you know about Chekov, Sulu, McCoy, Carol and Scotty beside what you’re allowed to know from their interactions with the main characters?

trekwars1

top of her class.
no one even knew of her relationship with spock until Vulcan got destroyed.
uhura is much better than kirk. kirk has worked t= his way to the top because of bones and pike,

Dansen

they tell us that she’s a skilled linguist and communication officer and they show that when: she intercepted and translated the message from the first movie that saved the enterprise, she spoke all 3 romulan dialects while the other officer couldn’t even tell the difference between them and vulcan, she spoke fluent klingon in the sequel, was Sulu’s co pilot when they dropped Spock in the volcano all the while handling the communications for and to the enterprise, she co-piloted the ship to kronos with Kirk and Spock, worked the array links that opened a transmission between the ship and new vulcan (‘hello Mr Spock’) in a moment where the ship was so damaged that comms were down, beamed down on a moving .. what even was that thing where Spock and Khan were trying to kill each other on? nevertheless, she bravely faced an assassin who could have killed her with a snap of his fingers and saved both Spock and Kirk with her intervention. I’m sure I’m missing something.. Even that ‘great aural sensitivity’ comment was showed because her hearing was quite good (e.g., busting Kirk under Gaila’s bed because she could hear him breathing, her intercepting and translating a weak transmission no one else catched)
Now I did my homework it’s your turn to list all the moments where we’re showed and not just told that the other characters were brilliant cadets that deserved their place on the bridge of the best ship of the fleet. I’ll be glad to re watch the movies and see all the scenes I missed where the other characters who aren’t Kirk and Spock were better developed and had more shining moments than Uhura.

Rahel F Adye

I agree with the analysis here. The new Uhura is compromised.

madmadia85

Please stop. I smell your whiteness and sexism hidden in faux feminism from here. Tell me you are a kirk/spock slash fan and you have it all.
I won’t believe it for a second that you like Uhura as nothing more than a segretary with background role and you are bitter because the reboot version elevates her to the level of the original trio.
There is no way someone can claim that reboot Uhura is a step backward. Please read what Nichelle Nichols said about the character.

Don’t fucking turn racism into a pro women argument: in the original series the only reason why Uhura didn’t have a relationship was because she was a black woman. Roddenberry would approve Spock/Uhura because he tried it himself but the executives wouldn’t let him do that because the actress was black. Please google ‘uhura is not a white girl’ and educate yourself.
It’s bad enough that white feminists keep pushing for a role model of woman that is not a human being and is held to double standards compared to men, but it’s really gross when you ignorant girls want to put all the women in the same box and you ignore that women of color are never the default heterosexual love interest like white girls are. It’s like someone complaining about a lesbian couple saying ‘ why women must be love interests all the time’ and you ignore that representation matters for poc and queer people who, unlike your cliche cis white female characters, are never the main romantic subplot in mainstream movies!

Reboot Uhura is like Mccoy, Scotty, Chekov and Sulu a secondary character not the main one like Kirk or Spock. If you were a bit less sexist, you’d notice that of all the secondary characters she actually is the most developed, especially as an officer. She’s a strong beautiful woman who is constantly praised for her skills and she’s damn competent in what she does. Her having a relationship (btw, it’s mutual loving. You obviously missed the many hints that the guy loves her back) don’t detract from that, just like Mccoy being Kirk’s best friend foremost doesn’t make him less a doctor and officer! In both movies Uhura’s contribution to the plot was foundamental as in the first she intercepted and translated a message from a klingon prison planet that, as you see later, saved the enterprise.
While Mccoy was sneaking his friend Kirk aboard the enterprise, Uhura had earned her place with her academy records (yes, Spock was wrong but his concern for her and him overcompensating proves alone that professionality is their concern) and unlike Mccoy who became chief doctor because Puri died, or Kirk’s convenient rise to command through Pike’s favoritism and repeated examples of insubordination, or Sulu who was on the bridge because the other officer was sick, or Scotty who became a chief officer on a ship he wasn’t even assigned to and only because the other died and kirk was the captain, Uhura earned her place on the bridge because she was more competent as a linguist than the other office and because Pike was impressed by her essentially being someone who, at the academy, intercepted and translated a message that saved them all, in her spare time.
In the sequel, while neither Scotty nor Mccoy have a reason to be on the bridge, Uhura is showed doing her job even while she’s understably concerned that her boyfriend might die! Later, she translates what the klingons were telling them and she risked her life to give her team a chance. In the end, she voluntered to beam in the midde of two super human fighting armed with just a phaser set to stun and she saved Spock before Khan killed him, and she saved Kirk’s life by stopping Spock before he killed the person who could have saved him.

For the first time in 40 years Uhura has a first name and she’s showed being a linguist. In the reboot, Uhura doesn’t need a dictionary to speak klingon and she isn’t groundbreaking only because she is there in the background and not playing a waitress.
She’s allowed to be sexy without getting shamed for that, she’s allowed to have a mutual loving relationship with someone who values and respects her. In tos, the only romantic action Uhura was allowed to get was the forced kirk/uhura kiss.
In the reboot, she is in a normal relationship that is her choice, no one manipulated her and she doesn’t need to get mindraped to kiss the male character because otherwise the network and racists have a nervous breakdown over an interracial couple. The fact that in 2015 you are having a nervous breakdown over spock/uhura just proves, along many things, that the more things change the more the remain the same and this one of the reasons why representation matters.

And you see, unlike your cliche white female characters, she doesn’t fall for the hero’s charms in the end but actually already chose to have a relationship with the intellectual introvert man she connects to on a deeper level. THAT bond isn’t made the be all and end all of the story and it adds a layer to these characters that was never explored before and that is interesting, more interesting than having just another cis white human with another cis white human.

When you say ‘ this new portrayal of Uhura is a step backwards, undermining the status of the original character and reducing her from an equal role to a woman’s role.’ that’s the point and it’s the very opposite of step backward because in tos she didn’t have that ‘equal role to a woman’s role because of racism!
So what are you saying here? That her character is bad because she’s treated as equal to a woman?

I’m sick and tired of people wanking about new Uhura. Admit you hate her and move on! Be more sincere! But please stop pretending you are pro women and pro women of color when you are absolutely not.

Maybe the fact that Uhura is more than the space segretary and spock is more than the nerdy best friend sidekick of white hollywood hero doesn’t interest you, but it does interest me and many others. Critics included.

madmadia85

Here’s some quotes by the great Nichelle Nichols:

“I’d get the first draft, the white pages, and see what Uhura had to do this week, and maybe it was a halfway-decent scene or two, sometimes more, and then invariably the next draft would come in on blue pages and I’d find that Uhura’s presence in the show had been cut way down. The pink pages came next and she’d suffer some more cuts, then the yellow, more cuts, and it finally got to the point where I had really had it. I mean, I just decided that I don’t even need to read the FUCKING SCRIPT! I mean I know how to say, ‘hailing frequencies open.’”
—— Nichelle Nichols, Star Trek Memories

“Looking back, Nichols would have welcomed the opportunity to expand her character beyond the limitations of a supporting role:‘You must understand that I’m an actor, not a communications officer, and as such I would have treasured the opportunity to act, to have been a character developed and have experiences other than keeping the communications open.‘
—— “Nichelle Nichols Opens All Hailing Frequencies” by Karen E. Wilson in Issue 36 of Starlog Magazine.

“…’I think between Kirk and Spock, those two men, she has found her own center. She’s very proud of being a singularly efficient, qualified human being and appreciate in her standing by these two men who she admires’
– Still, no matter how many qualities she has instilled in Uhura, Nichelle feels that in the movies her character has not been developed to its fullest potential the way it has been in fan fiction. –
‘I think Uhura is a very independent woman but a relationship for her would be a very exciting aspect to delve into. There is a great potential to develop Uhura because she has many interesting qualities.’ …. ”
—— from issue #51 of Star Trek: The Official Fan Club Magazine

And here’s what she said about reboot Uhura and the Spock/Uhura relationship (that, btw, was the thing that Leonard Nimoy liked the most about the movies)
Why she approves:

“I decided then from the character that I read [Spock] that I wanted to be very much like that character but in a feminine way. And Gene [Roddenberry] said, and I was sharing this with George [Takei] the other day, when I told him that I thought of Spock as my mentor. Because if you remember Uhura was the only one he was able to teach the Vulcan lyre to and he sang and spooffed on Spock. Now, you could have never had a love scene in 63 between Uhura and Spock but there were several hints and Gene was one in the kind of beginning to follow that“
—— Nichelle Nichols @ the trekfest ‘09

“Spock fascinated her, her serious side. Now, this is me making my story on what happened, but he saw in her his human side and she touched a side of him that they were supposedly discreet about.
Now, go back to my participation in Star Trek as Uhura and Leonard (Nimoy) as Spock. There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60’s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now, but if you will remember, Uhura related to Spock. When she saw the captain lost in space out there in her mirror, it was Spock who consoled her when she went screaming out of her room. When Spock needed an expert to help save the ship, you remember that Uhura put something together and related back to him the famous words, “I don’t know if I can do this. I’m afraid.” And Uhura was the only one who could do a spoof on Spock. Remember the song (in “Charlie X”)? Those were the hints, as far as I’m concerned. ”
—— Nichelle Nichols answers fan questions, star trek.com

“While they were shooting, J.J. Abrams invited me to lunch and invited me to come to the set. I was so excited. The surprise he had going was that the young woman playing Uhura [Zoe Saldana] didn’t know I was coming. She just gasped.
As J.J. had planned it, she didn’t have to shoot, so we sat for two hours and talked, and it was as though I had known her all her life. I was so honored. I thought I was seeing myself — I knew I was in good hands. She just picked my brain.When I see her come on, that’s me and I’m living it. A little ways into the movie, I realized she had taken to heart what I said and became more reserved and tighter. I’m so proud of her. She took a role that was established and gave it life.

Now I know who I was before I got on that ship for that first mission. It’s so exciting for me and rewarding. J.J. and she did me honor.”
—— Nichelle Nichols for the Iowa Gazette

Now, tell me again that reboot Uhura is a step backward…

Some of you are an insult to everything trek stands for. You don’t understand a thing of what was Gene’s vision.

Michael Albright

I was with you until you used these quotes to degrade the author. “… an insult to everything Trek stands for?” How myopic of you; this couldn’t possibly be more nuanced than a straight black-and-white good/bad dichotomy.

Truth is, they really did make an effort to make sure Uhura was included. They really did try to make her as awesome as the rest of the crew. And yet… when it came to expanding her characterization, why is she the only one who becomes largely defined by a romantic relationship? Why couldn’t the development have been through a friendship with her commanding officer borne of mutual respect, rather than an otherwise brilliant woman hooking up with a man whose core character trait is emotional unavailability? Why is no other cast member, including the one with whom she has this relationship, defined by their romantic entanglements?

Her brilliance in the movies is largely an informed trait; unlike the rest of the cast, we only see her being brilliant maybe once. I think they tried, and it was a good effort, but overall it has problematic aspects and pointing that out can only help further Roddenberry’s vision.

madmadia85

and yet, your reasoning has the same double standard and sexism. Why is it ok for the male characters in this franchise to be always so defined by their friendships with other male characters at the point of that being at the expense of their own character development, career, family and so on (including making them act unprofessionally) YET, it’s so outrageous for a female character to be in a mutual loving relationship with one of these male characters? A relationship that surely doesn’t make her more dependent on it than the guys are on their friends and doesn’t influence her in her job more than the guys are influenced in their jobs by the friendships. What’s this double standards you have against romantic relationship vs platonic ones? Why making her character more prominent thank to a friendship would be more acceptable and less offensive for women than making her have a relationship with a man?
I see nothing in her relationship with Spock that makes me think it’s without mutual respect. Even the fact itself that when she faced the klingons Spock was the one who defended her choice to Kirk and had faith in her skills is an example of that.

A feminism that requires women to be single to prove they are strong is not feminism. You want them to essentially tell our little girls that if they fall in love and have feelings they are weak women and that in order to be strong women and a feminist icon you must be alone forever because the moment you’re in a relationship with someone you’re ‘less’ and everything you do outside of that stops to matter.

‘Her brilliance in the movies is largely an informed trait; unlike the rest of the cast, we only see her being brilliant maybe once.’

care to elaborate? I get the feeling you’re largely overrating what the other secondary characters did (that isn’t so much and not particularly memorable either) only because they are males all the while purposely underrating Uhura’s own moments of brilliance just because she’s a woman and basically she needs to prove herself more to you for that simple fact.
You know what it is? It’s the very thing feminists had always fraught against.

I’m sorry but I don’t buy it. I think that both you and the article writer here are just concern trolling using feminism as an excuse to actually complain that the female characters is for all intents and purposes a human being just like your male faves.
The fact, also, that you purposely chose to ignore everything Nichelle Nichols said in the quotes (and you keep ignoring the fact that if tos Uhura was single it was because of racism) speaks volumes about your ulterior motives.

for white feminists, if they care so much they can always use Carol as their lord and savior and overrate her own contribution to the plot pretending she’s the feminist icon just because she was (still) a single lady not ‘defined by a man’

Michael Albright

I think the author of the piece explained it pretty well; the romantic relationship put her in a position that was never a part of the character. Nichols described Spock as Uhura’s mentor. That’s a vastly different relationship than the one we see in the movie, and while the friendship I suggest would enable stronger characterization, the one we see puts her in the same position as every other female character created solely to be a wife or girlfriend; she’s not there to be Uhura, she’s there to be Spock’s security blanket. “She cares about Spock” isn’t characterization, it just gives her something to do in their scenes together where Spock’s character is developed out the wazoo. It’s not a double standard; it’s an actual difference that has a substantial effect on Uhura’s personal narrative, i.e., to halt it entirely so Spock can weep about his mother some more.

It isn’t ignoring Nichelle Nichols being happy with the portrayal of the character to find it problematic as a fan. It’s a matter of perspective, and Nichols was behind the scenes being friendly with the very-awesome-in-her-own-right Zoe Saldana, and she may have seen that Zoe was playing the character as she interpreted it herself – as an actress – but watching the movie and seeing how the character was written is a different aspect of the audience interaction with the film. To say that the author’s perspective is invalid because Nichols or anyone else disagrees with her is problematic, because what you’re doing is denying the validity of her own feelings as she experienced them.

Incidentally, Nichols was the rare prominent black woman, especially in the ’60s, and the reason for it is that both the civil rights movement and the women’s liberation movement, sadly, both ignored the very specific life experience of black women; black power focused predominantly on the needs of black men and, as you point out, feminism was largely from the perspective of white women. It’s because of that that Nichols was quite validly a role model to both. So, no, I’m going to disagree with you that a (possibly) white girl identifying with Uhura as a woman, and seeing a later interpretation of the character through that lens isn’t racist or even a denial of the racism that Nichelle Nichols actually faced as she played the character on TV; it’s her emotional connection to the character she’s writing about, not the entirety of the character. Hell, I’ll even agree with you that as a black person, Uhura is given much better characterization in the films if for no other reason than she had so little on tos, but it really isn’t relevant to this blog post.

madmadia85

“I think the author of the piece explained it pretty well; the romantic
relationship put her in a position that was never a part of the
character. Nichols described Spock as Uhura’s mentor. That’s a vastly
different relationship than the one we see in the movie,”

are you being dense?

Nichelle Nichols said that Spock and Uhura had the basis for a romantic relationship in tos and Roddenberry himself thought about that, but they could do nothing but some flirting in the original series BECAUSE OF RACISM.

The relationship being vastly different than in the original series is because a) this time is less racist than the 60s b) we’re in 2015 and one can suppose that modern audiences won’t have a nervous breakdown over interracial couples (hilarirous actually, judging from this article) c) it’s a modern reboot that specifically explains that this is another reality so just because they weren’t together in the original series, it doesn’t mean they can’t be together here. Since our time is supposed to be less racist and she’s considered as an equal human being by these writers, they can show them in a relationship and fix one of the most problematic things from TOS.

“and while the friendship I suggest would enable stronger characterization,”

really? how is so?
You think that McCoy has a stronger characterization because his character is defined by him being Kirk’s best friend and most of his scenes are about the way he relates to his friend? You keep using that word (‘strong’) but I’m not sure you know what it means.

Your insistence that a romantic relationship is any different than a friendship (if we remove the sex part ) is ridiculous.

“the one we see puts her in the same position as every other female character”
every other WHITE female character (something Nichelle Nichols wasn’t allowed to because of racism) Corrected it for you 😉

“created solely to be a wife or girlfriend; she’s not there to be Uhura”

wrong. She’s lt Uhura, a competent officer aboard the Enterprise who saved people’s ass in more than one occasion and she also happens to be in love and in a romantic relationship with one of the most interesting characters of the whole franchise. Outrage!

“She cares about Spock” isn’t characterization”

how can it be less characterization than Spock caring for her and his mother and Kirk.. and every male character caring for their women or other male characters?
How can it be not part of her character who she is in love with and the way she relates to that person? How can it be not part of her characterization when it becomes the pretext to see her personality and her feelings?

Michael Albright

“Nichelle Nichols said that Spock and Uhura had the basis for a romantic relationship…
”
Nichols also said mentor; that doesn’t imply or even suggest a romantic relationship. In fact, it’s kind of unethical, in most professional situations, for a mentor and superior officer to take on a romantic relationship with a student and subordinate, especially one who serves DIRECTLY under him.

I understand that Uhura’s role was limited on tos BECAUSE OF RACISM. I also understand that her just being on the bridge was FUCKING HUGE. The impact of her presence on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise to an audience in the 1960s, especially the section of the audience that was black and/or female, was about as important as a fictional TV series can get. Even with her reduced part, there was a black woman on the bridge of the most important ship in the fleet. I think it would have been great to explore the relationships between the non Kirk-Spock-Bones triangle and see how these characters interact, but exploring the relationship between two characters is not the same as wedging a romantic link where there wasn’t one, especially when the romantic link overtakes the character of the woman in the relationship.

Also, again: as First Officer, Spock was one of Uhura’s COs. Exploring that relationship romantically is troubling to say the least; having them be involved BEFORE Spock put her on the Enterprise is the very definition of impropriety even if she is the best candidate for the position.

“Since our time is supposed to be less racist and she’s considered as an equal human being by these writers, they can show them in a relationship and fix one of the most problematic things from TOS.”

The absence of a romantic relationship was not “one of the most problematic things from TOS.” Sorry, but no. Adding that relationship IS one of the most problematic things about the movie — and not because she’s black (by the way, suggesting that the author is concerned about the relationship because she’s racist when she’s obviously not is just you being a dick) but because, well, there’s the whole issue of him being her superior officer, but also that doing so reduced her character to Spock’s helpmeet whenever they share a scene together. Now, I’m about to concede elsewhere that I, by commenting here from memory without having re-watched the movie recently, have overlooked some of her cool character moments extraneous to the relationship, but I do remember the Spock-Uhura scenes, and she goes from being “awesome comm officer” to “generic supportive but kinda bitchy girlfriend” and those scenes comprise the bulk of her screen time.

Would it be a problem for her to have a boyfriend? No. Would it be a problem for her to have a WHITE boyfriend? Again, no. The same is true of any other modifier of boyfriend you can tack on there. When having that relationship reduces her character rather than providing characterization? That’s the WHOLE problem, right there in a nutshell, and that is exactly what her relationship to Spock does to her. Perhaps an Uhura-Spock relationship, as they would have liked to explore it on tos back in the day, wouldn’t have the problems I’ve observed. Hard to say. However, that is not what happened in Star Trek.

“how can it be less characterization than Spock caring for her and his mother and Kirk.. and every male character caring for their women or other male characters?”

Well, watch the damn movie. Literally nothing about her is gleaned in her scenes with Spock; they are all about him and his emotions, or at most how she feels about something he does. Characterization requires more information about a character’s personality than the obvious, like “she cares about her boyfriend.” One has to move beyond that to learn about a person.

everythingisilluminated

Imma let you finish here but do you realize that your reasoning is against friendships too? They can’t exist! It’s not ethic! Because kirk can literally send Spock and everyone on that ship to their deaths!

You are ‘lalalalalalala not caring lalala’ about racial issues get over it.

Michael Albright

You don’t have any idea how human interaction works, do you?

As for the racial issues, they really aren’t relevant here. A white woman (allegedly; I don’t actually know that the OP is white. madmadia85 keeps saying she is, and I haven’t bothered to check because I was writing most of this on my phone) admired a black woman because she held a position of respect and authority on a TV show, and a later iteration of that character put her in a romantic relationship that she, and I, felt diminished her character. Race has absolutely nothing to do with this, save for that there’s an element of the story that transcends racial boundaries. Hell, we focus so heavily on the racism behind the scenes that we’re ignoring the fact that Uhura had her position because she WASN’T being judged by the color of her skin. If anything this is a feelgood story about overcoming racial differences.

You’ve got me wrong. The key word was “generic.” The way she’s written, when she has an opinion, she acts bitchy. She doesn’t express herself and use her words like a person as intelligent as Uhura would; she purses her lips and uses vague body language to express irritation that we, the audience, are supposed to interpret as an overreaction. I would actually love to see a female romantic lead be clear about her emotions instead of doing that “I’m mad because you don’t know why I’m mad” act that no woman I have ever dated actually does.

madmadia85

Of course she is a bitch while Kirk having an abusive dynamic with Spock where he constantly complains about him and belittles his vulcan heritage is just good character developed. 😉 boys will be boys…

madmadia85

“To say that the author’s perspective is invalid because Nichols or
anyone else disagrees with her is problematic, because what you’re doing
is denying the validity of her own feelings as she experienced them.”

which essentially is what both you and the author of this article are doing with Uhura (the fictional character) and Nichelle Nichols and the many woc who identified with Uhura then and they identify with her now and relate to a new version of her not just because she’s ‘here’ and not a waitress or mami, but because for once white girls don’t have to be the ones with the romantic subplot in a mainstream movie by default, because for once the woc isn’t just the sassy friend or ‘strong independent woman who don’t need no man’. Perhaps, for white girls there is nothing special about being portrayed as human beings in a relationship because that happens all the time, but for poc and the members of the LGBT community the music is quite different.
Cis white fangirls should perhaps find their ‘feminist’ icons in other characters rather than wanting to force their unreasonable ideals on females that are part of minorities that can do without their white feminism that becomes just another, yet again, way to marginalize and discriminate them as human beings and women.

Michael Albright

This entire comment is bull. It’s an opinion piece; one can have an opinion without invalidating different opinions. What you’re saying here, though, is that this opinion isn’t allowed, that a feminist isn’t allowed to admire Nichols or Uhura as women because she’s/they’re black. That’s perhaps the dumbest thing I’ve heard so far this year.

What if there had been no romantic subplot? Why is that such a bad idea? What if the only thing Uhura did in the movie was be the most awesome communications officer in the Federation? Why is that not a good thing?

No, you have to put her in a relationship, degrade her status to the same role that women always take in pretty much every kind of movie with very few exceptions, and then call people racist with the most backwards justification I’ve ever heard. “She’s not a woman; she’s black!” She’s both, dipshit, and can be admired in either capacity or both.

everythingisilluminated

Bullshit. You are the one whose nerve was hit and you are complaining Uhura is in a relationship since two movies already and that many like, get over it and move on.
Why is her having that such a bad thing? Why is that not a good thing that Saldana’s Uhura is not written under racist rules like Nichelle’s Uhura was? You can’t ignore her being black when you claim that if she is not being discriminated as a black woman like Nichelle was it’s degrading for her character! That’s some racist nonsense!

Michael Albright

No, it’s not racist nonsense; it’s an acknowledgement that a person can be more than just their race or just their gender. This article is about the portrayal of a female character the author identified with; you’re the only one bringing up race at all.

Why was it such a bad thing? Because it was written badly and reduced an otherwise awesome character with lots of potential to a one-note cliche.

everythingisilluminated

I’m sure that racist and homophobes actually use the first part of your argument as an excuse to deny queer and poc representation in the media.
It’s clear you don’t care about that.

Michael Albright

What, that a person can be more than just their race? Perhaps; I’ve heard the whole “why are you an African American when you should just be an American” ploy before, so there’s some similarity, but since what I’m saying isn’t racist, then that superficial similarity is nothing more than that.

That said, no, bullshit. That isn’t clear at all from anything I’ve said so far, so cram it, you sanctimonious jackass.

everythingisilluminated

It’s easy to not care about race when you are white and not persecuted because of that

Michael Albright

It really is. That doesn’t mean I don’t.

Dansen

“Why couldn’t the development have been through a friendship with her commanding officer borne of mutual respect”

yeah, what about Kirk and Uhura though?
Your solution to improve her character is essentially advocating for her to get reduced to the sassy black friend role that is given to black women by default, all the time. In short, you’re proposing a variation of the tiring and overused ‘strong independent woman who doesn’t need no man’ racist stereotype. Did you even read the quotes by Nichelle Nichols?

“rather than an otherwise brilliant woman hooking up with a man whose core character trait is emotional unavailability?”

are you saying that the Sarek and Amanda relationship was a mistake? I can only guess that you didn’t get the point of the Kirk/Spock friendship either.
Star trek depicts a (fantasy) future where the concept of ‘people’ is not limited to the human race only anymore and humans get in contact with people from other worlds and discover that some things like love, family and friendship can be universal.
Who better than a communication officer whose main passion is alien languages and cultures could fall for a vulcan and make that relationship work? Their relationship makes a lot of sense when you think about it. An interracial and inter-species couple can only help further Roddenberry’s vision because this kind of relationship IS trek! If you want to see relationships between extrovert human beings you don’t need star trek.

It seems to me you’re being too dismissive with Spock’s character here. He’s half human and there are plenty of scenes that hint his feelings for Uhura and other characters. His speech from the last movie in the middle of their mission was a blatant ‘I love you’ and if the scene at the transport bay from the first movie is any hint I suspect he’s more affectionate with Uhura in private than we think. You need to pay more attention to their scenes, including their actions in the background.

” Why is no other cast member, including the one with whom she has this relationship, defined by their romantic entanglements?”‘

I don’t know about that…I guess one could argue that the male characters in these movies are defined by their relationships with women way more than Uhura is by her relationship with Spock.
Nero goes batshit insane because of the loss of his wife, Spock is emotionally compromised and has survivor guilt because of the death of his mother and the loss of his home planet, the opening scene of the first movie has George Kirk sacrificing himself to save his wife, son and crew and his last words are all for his wife and how much he loves her. Even Spock’s last words in the first movie in case he died in that ship were for Uhura (‘please tell lt Uhura..’)
Leonard McCoy joined starfleet because he wanted to get over the divorce with his wife, Sarek challenged his vulcan culture and reputation to marry a human woman.
That’s not even talking into consideration everything these characters had always done in the name of friendship because I don’t need to remind you what Kirk sacrificed in the tos movies for his friends (and not just Kirk). The male characters get praised for that, I never read anyone making editorials about them being bad role models because they think about their personal relationships more than their careers and the interests of their colleagues.

It’s weird that we’re nitpicking about Uhura and singling her out for something that is the core of star trek and had always been. You don’t watch the show and old movies just to see the spaceships and the cool special effects. Our most beloved moments had always been the ones where the characters are the most vulnerable and they have relationships, doesn’t matter if the relationships are romantic or platonic.

everythingisilluminated

Another friendship? Whoa! Easy with these awesome ideas of yours, I’m literally melting from the excitement I’m feeling right now..!
Don’t be naive, romance is the thing that sells the most and always will and besides, the movies need a romance because the constant talk about the kirk and spock bromance gets boring after a while when you have all the episodes and movies about that already. Even the actors were bored in the interviews. The romance with Uhura is new, fun and unexspected, it takes the characters to a whole new level where you can’t predict what will happen next. It works and it isn’t even that over the top.

Michael Albright

You are bad at sarcasm. Romance reveals far less about character than friendship, narratively speaking.

“The movies need a romance…?” Three seasons and six movies with this same crew without a whiff of this romance would beg to differ. It’s true the focus of most episodes, like the movie, was going to be on Kirk and Spock. That was a given. Distracting from that by giving one of them a girlfriend is the lazy way to solve that problem.

Also, adding a romance, while not expected, led to nothing but extremely predictable scenes. Spock is tormented and she, as his girlfriend, is there to comfort him. Yawn. That’s why friendships are more interesting; we can easily figure out why they’re attracted to each other, but why do those two like each other? What do they bond over? How do they handle tough situations? What do they do to console one another when sex isn’t on the table?

everythingisilluminated

You sound like you are talking about romance! Do you realize that everything you said about friendship can be said about their relationship and why people find romances interesting?
I get you hate romance but it’s so funny that you don’t seem to realize your double standards.
Tell me what is do add new and unpredictable to a friendship that already happened and like you said was a big given anyway?
Spock/uhura isn’t here to resolve that problem but merely giving to people and critics something different to talk about. Something new. It’s the most talked about thing, one way or another, guess the writers accomplished their purpose… 😉

YourPalFriendpatine

Part of the problem is that Spock and Uhura have no development whatsoever as a couple. With Kirk and Bones, at least we see how they meet — how they’re both unusual students who take to one another given their circumstances. With Spock and Uhura — where’s the development? So she was his student…well so what? 99.999% of people have teachers and don’t end up dating them, even if they ARE the best student in the class. Spock and Uhura are just put together but we don’t know WHY they’re together. Why be with Spock instead of Sulu? Or McCoy? The films never really address that.

Moreover, in Star Trek Into Darkness, Spock seems befuddled by the very concept of friendship. Which makes his romantic relationship with Uhura really thinly developed and not at all believable.

everythingisilluminated

So if Spock didn’t get why Kirk was his friend (understandable) then he can’t be in a relationship with Uhura ? Lol thank you for the good laugh!
I didn’t know that the fact he has a girlfriend turns him into an extrovert who now must make friends and sleep with people like no big deal.

Your asking to know why they are together but do you ask why kirk wants to be spock’s friend or why kirk and mccoy are friends? No one explained that to me on screen but you still want a diagram explaining the relationship between uhura and spock!

YourPalFriendpatine

Nope, Zachary Quinto said that Star Trek Into Darkness was basically about Spock gaining an understanding of friendship. Quinto said Spock “learns how to be a friend” which he should already know if he’s in a romantic relationship, should he not?

Also, what in the world are you talking about? Where did I mention anything about Spock becoming an extrovert and sleeping with people. I’m talking about FRIENDSHIP, not friends with benefits.

Again, the inconsistency with Spock’s character is present.

everythingisilluminated

Zachary quinto is just an actor trying to explain his character he doesn’t write the script but he isn’t wrong Spock can still need to understand friendship in general but it has nothing to do with falling in love and that he wanted to be with her that way. Uhura is the girl he loves not just his friend. It’s two different relationships it seems you have some ulterior motives here for keep trying to compare them or rather use one relationship to explain or fault the other.
It’s bizarre.

YourPalFriendpatine

So if the actors’ words don’t matter then why are people bringing up Nichelle Nichols? And…er…I’d say not understanding friendship is a pretty big deal for a guy we’re supposed to buy is in a romantic relationship.

madmadia85

Big deal when you want him to get with his friend and you can’t reconcile with the fact that he can be in a relationship with uhura in the same movie where he isn’t a friend for kirk.

YourPalFriendpatine

LOLWUT. “Get with his friend.” NOPE. That’s not happen in a million years. It’s not about Kirk in particular, it’s about the fact that friendship is an essential component of a healthy romantic relationship. You know – affection, mutual interests, trust, all those things that make up friendship — they make up romance too. Spock’s characterization is ass-backwards.

madmadia85

Just ask Sarek about what is human friendship and see how much an expert he is about that even though he married twice.
There are many people who fall in love, get married and make a family but they still don’t have a best friend or know how to make friends like others do.
You are comparing apples and oranges because yes, that is part of romance too but Uhura is not someone Spock recognizes as just a friend because they are not just friends. She is his friend but she is the person he is in love with too and the person who is in love with him, and if he doesn’t feel the same for Kirk, then of course that’s a different kind of relationship for him to understand. Not clear? Just because he gets romantic friendship and is living it with Uhura, it doesn’t mean he instantly gets platonic frendship with Kirk too.

You can’t expect the spock/uhura relationship to fix the problems between kirk and spock either.

YourPalFriendpatine

It’s funny because we do see a “marriage” in TOS where the participants clearly aren’t friends and that’s Spock and T’Pring. You don’t HAVE consider your spouse your friend, but it’s kind of an essential ingredient to a happy, loving relationship. Just go on reddit or some other big discussion site sometime and ask what the key to a successful marriage is. You’ll see right away that a popular answer is that someone considers their spouse to be their best friend (which doesn’t bar them from having OTHER friends, of course). But even so, even if they have no other friends, if you don’t consider your spouse a friend, you’re probably in a marriage of convenience.

And Sarek DID have friends, or did you forget that Picard called him “old friend”?

So, no, I’m NOT comparing apples to oranges. A spouse isn’t JUST a friend obviously, but they ARE a friend. Which is why the friendship lesson in the sequel is so illogical from a characterization perspective.

And that has nothing to do with Kirk. You know who Spock’s FIRST friend should have been? Uhura. But given that they’re trying to have a major theme of Into Darkness be that Spock doesn’t “get” friendship and needs to learn how to be a friend, his characterization just falls apart.

everythingisilluminated

You are trying to find logic in why kirk and spock couldn’t be best friends since the beginning just because he has a relationship with uhura. But there is no logic, just different characters and different relationships each with their own plot. It wasn’t realistic for them to be friends and it’s not realistic to think that spock is the expert at friendship when his one important relationship outside his parents is the one he has with his girlfriend. Maybe you are saying that we love our friends in the same way we love our sweetheart but I disagree.
So for you Spock couldn’t love his mother just because he doesn’t insta care for kirk and gets friendship? All due respect but that makes very little sense.

YourPalFriendpatine

No…I’m asking how a guy that doesn’t understand friendship can have a girlfriend. Friendship is a big part of romance unless you’re just having sex, after all. Kirk is beside the point. Friendship is about mutual affection and shared interests, of being able to trust and rely upon someone. You can’t be in a healthy romantic relationship if you don’t understand friendship as a concept.

madmadia85

both this comment about friendship and your other comment about ‘Spock’s choice to not feel’ are identical to that of a popular kirk/spock fan over tumblr who also makes posts about kirk and spock being in love and them being the realest romance of the movies.

beck0974

Let’s ignore the fact that MAYBE Spock didn’t see the value in fostering a friendship with a person that constantly pesters him to lie on reports, cheats whenever he needs to get ahead, and harasses his girlfriend, all because an alternate version of himself tells him they’re supposed to be “friends”.

YourPalFriendpatine

That’s not the point. The point is that Quinto said that Star Trek Into Darkness was about Spock learning about friendship and how to be a friend, which is a really inconsistent lesson to learn given that he’s already got a girlfriend. Again — some consistency in characterization would be nice. It could be Kirk or McCoy’s dog, but either way it doesn’t make sense for Spock to get the friendship lesson when he’s already in a romantic relationship.

kate

spock learned how to be a better boyfriend, too

YourPalFriendpatine

What does some random shipper have to do with jack? Whether or not Spock’s characterization is consistent is pretty irrelevant to whatever some random fangirl thinks about Spock banging Kirk. (Plus it’s a moot point since it would never happen onscreen anyway). And your argument makes no sense — even if Spock and Uhura’s relationship is poorly written, that doesn’t somehow mean that Spock will be romantically in love with Kirk, no matter how many fangirls might wish it were so. Where are you getting that?

madmadia85

I get that way too well.
You ‘fangirls’ in disguise with a shipper agenda do that all the time because, somehow someway, you think that trying to prove that Spock doesn’t love his girlfriend makes your fanfictions that he is in love with Kirk and using Uhura as a cover more believable and less delusional. It doesn’t take a genius to understand why fangirls in disguise like you care so much about whatever people think that spock/uhura works or not and why you love to join these discussions almost more than preaching about your ship being canon. For your crazy minds spock/uhura is a threat to your ship, it doesn’t matter that spirk is not canon as long as another couple isn’t canon either and you feel more free to have your fantasies without canon ‘obstacles’ that contraddict them.

You know no one takes your criticism seriously when they know you are a k/s fangirl that’s why you are denying evidence.
I refuse to argument with a person who is pretending to be the objective fan when they aren’t, and who is criticizing scenes theye have tried to give to their own ship because they are ‘thyla’. People are not stupid and you guys are having these arguments since 2009 it doiesn’t take a fandom expert to recognize a slash fangirl.

YourPalFriendpatine

LOL. Who cares what a bunch of shippers want? You’re right anyway — the whole k/s thing will never be canon, so who cares? It doesn’t matter — it’s not gonna happen no matter what. Doesn’t change the fact that Spock and Uhura’s romance isn’t well written. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that if Spock doesn’t love Uhura that will somehow mean he’s in love with Kirk which is such asinine thinking, I can barely wrap my mind around it. But it’s funny how you’re equating the two. Better tell a bunch of people on reddit that they’re now “slash fangirls” — I’m sure they’ll get a kick out of that!

madmadia85

why so ashamed to be a kirk/spock fan that you can’t even admit it?
If you want to role play as the non shipper perhaps you should find arguments that google search won’t connect to a slash fanblog. There aren’t many people in the spirk fandom itself that make these two specific arguments and you had the brilliant idea to put them both here using the same style and words you used in your blog. How it was the original? and Spock gives frosted cake to Uhura but he gives unfrosted cake to Kirk, even though it’s never explained how he learned to bake

YourPalFriendpatine

Why are you bringing up Kirk when NONE of the points I made above even referred to him? Did you see Kirk mentioned above? No. I DID mention that Zachary Quinto said that a big theme in the sequel was how Spock learned to be a friend, but that’s the lesson that Spock is meant to learn, which is irrelevant to Kirk. If Spock was learning how to be a friend towards McCoy or Carol or Scotty or his pet iguana, we’d still be stuck with the ass-backwards fact that a man with a girlfriend is getting the friendship lesson. Which is idiotic, illogical characterization.

It’s almost like you have nothing to counter my points with and so you’re quoting from your page of butthurt as though that makes a difference to what I’m saying.

If you’re so angry at “slash fanblogs” then take it up with them.

Or are your going to get on Michael’s case as a “slash fangirl” next because he agreed and said:

“If you don’t understand friendship, you shouldn’t be in a relationship, especially not with someone who is among the smartest people you’ve ever met, and is your subordinate in an organization with a military structure.”

Michael Albright

If you don’t understand friendship, you shouldn’t be in a relationship, especially not with someone who is among the smartest people you’ve ever met, and is your subordinate in an organization with a military structure.

Michael Albright

You have a point; actual romance is a lot like what I describe. Cinematic romance, on the other hand is really nothing like what I describe. It’s little more than a boilerplate relationship that exposes nothing about Uhura’s character, and for that reason it is boring and it makes her less interesting.

Also, this sort of thing is not new; it’s called “shipping” and it’s at least as old as Star Trek itself.

everythingisilluminated

In your opinion.

Michael Albright

Duh-doy; that’s what this whole thing is; opinion! It’s a comment section on an opinion blog; what did you expect?

everythingisilluminated

Yes, but why are you getting so worked out over a fictional couple you don’t even care about? Why so defensive? Are you the author of the article?

Michael Albright

Who said I don’t care? I’m a Trekkie; I absolutely care about how characters I’ve loved my whole life are portrayed.

everythingisilluminated

Glad to see you wasting so much time talking about something you don’t think is interesting. One could confuse you with a shipper, so much passion for a relationship!

Michael Albright

I have passion for characterization, and that particular relationship undermines it.

everythingisilluminated

B-u-l-l-shit! New Uhura is awesome. The one thing the reboot improved, and you want them to go back to the 60s?
Stupid feminazis and their nonsense this shit is not feminism!

window00

Defenders of the Uhura reboot remind me of the talking heads who assert that domesticity actually empowers women in conservative societies and their oppression is overstated. Bridled strength, they call it. Quiet dignity. Obviously some commenters see more in the movie’s depiction of the character than meets others’ discerning eyes. One wonders if it’s really the lower level of active ambition ascribed to Uhura — and compromised expectations of Nichelle Nichols — that have kept her from attaining greater prominence as a member of the crew (other than that she is the only female on the bridge, and a black woman to boot). That, too, is a consequence of gender norms. Most revolutions occur in small increments.

Dansen

Straw man fallacy. It’s irresponsible for the author of this article to claim that original Uhura is a feminist icon just because she wasn’t in a romantic relationship, when she was less developed as a character in 79 episodes of the original series and all the previous movies made about it, than new Uhura was in the two, so far, movies of the reboot. It’s dangerous and pure disinformation to spread this message that in the original series Uhura had a loveless life because the writers wanted her to be a feminist icon – never mind the fact that it’s sexist to say that a woman must be single to be ‘strong’ – when, actually, she was single because as a black woman she was considered less of a person than the white male leads and a white woman, and the fact that this made it so that she didn’t have to be like Chapel who was, according to the writers themselves, put in the show for the sake of having someone who hopelessly loved Spock and was rebuffed by him – a role that new Uhura doesn’t have, anyway, because she miraculously made her own Spock not only fall for her but actually decide he wanted to commit and be in a stable romantic relationship with her – does not change the point nor it makes the racism that influenced original Uhura’s character more acceptable.

window00

Not sure which straw man you’re talking about, nor why your argument revolves around Uhura’s romantic life when my comment didn’t refer to that at all. My question — the answer to which can only be speculated on this site — is how gender norms of the ’60s (because not even ST was free of contemporary culture) played into the construction of Uhura’s role and Nichols’ perception of her own character, as well as how those expectations have possibly persisted and influenced the reboot.

Dansen

The struggle is real.
Uhura is hella rad and way more interesting that most of the secondary characters anyway and look, unless you’re saying that she should become the new protagonist of these movies instead of Kirk and Spock, there is no reasonable way they can make her character more developed than Sulu, Chekov, Scotty and McCoy (and Carol)
That’s some delusional, misguided and uninformed argument you’re trying to make here by claiming that Nichelle Nichols’ Uhura was better than new Uhura, or that her role as a character was equal to that of a white female character nowadays, and equal to that of the male characters in that show.
Perhaps the reboot is an improvement because it was too easy to do better than a tv series made in the 60s, but Saldana’s Uhura is objectively not a step backwards. I don’t see how can Uhura’s autonomy be undermined by her being in a romantic relationship – that doesn’t even seem to be of the co-dependent kind.

YourPalFriendpatine

I think I would be able to enjoy Uhura’s relationship with Spock if it were a bit more reciprocal and had been developed more onscreen. We never got a chance to see what drew them together as a couple. Plus, as it stands, it always seems as though it’s Uhura –> Spock and never Spock –> Uhura. We see Uhura comfort Spock when his mother dies and worry about him as he’s in the volcano. We see her go after him to help him take down Khan after Kirk dies. She supports him in a lot of ways. And yet, we never really see Spock do the same for her. She has to get upset with him over how he assigned her to the wrong ship. And later, when she’s upset with him for not seeming to care about what it did to her to see him in danger, his response is essentially:

“I show how much I care by not showing emotion. It’s too painful for me to feel so I choose not to.” Which…okay. That seems kind of dismissive but I guess he’s a Vulcan so he has a different culture? But then at the end of the film, when Kirk is dying, Spock is crying and screaming and even says that, in that instance, he can’t “choose not to feel.”

So which is it? Is it when he chooses not to feel that he cares? Or when he does? Because it’s really inconsistent.

And it’s especially noticeable during Uhura’s confrontation with the Klingons. If you told me that one of those men was her boyfriend, I would guess it’s Kirk, not Spock. We see him, over and over again, concerned about her — looking out the window in anxiety. And yet we don’t get nearly so much focus on Spock. Kirk also runs out of the ship as soon as Uhura is attacked to help her. While Spock hangs back with the security guys.

The relationship just doesn’t do anything FOR her because it comes across as completely one-sided, with Uhura always caring for and helping Spock and expressing emotion towards him, but not the reverse. And Spock’s behavior is inconsistent because in some cases he’s able to reign in his emotions (when Uhura’s almost killed by the Klingons) but in others he’s not (when his mother is insulted, later when she’s killed, and when Kirk is dying).

everythingisilluminated

Oh dear apples is this what we are reduced to now? Inventing quotes to make a point? His point was he cares too much for her and he didn’t want to feel when he was dying (not in general) because thinking about her in that precise moment was terrible for him. The real quote is beautiful, the one you created is silly.
You would be more credible if you weren’t choosing to manipulate their scenes and selectively ignoring all the times that they showed Spock reciprocating her affection and concern. One gotta be deluded to think it’s one sided. A lot of trek fanboys and fangirls, slash fanfic writers included, hate it because it’s not one sided and they think he’s OOC or that he should feel that way for Kirk instead of Uhura. Few would hate the romance so much if they were reassured that Spock is a robot or that he has only eyes for Kirk.

YourPalFriendpatine

Not really. I mean, he says “you mistake my choice not to feel as a reflection of my not caring when I assure you the truth is precisely the opposite.” So he’s saying that he chooses not to feel because it hurts too much. Okay then. Why, then, at the end of the film, does he tell Kirk “I do not know. Right now I am failing.” when asked how he manages to not feel? Why does he tell his father that he feels an anger he cannot control for the one who killed his mother?

See — that’s the thing. There’s absolutely zero consistency with Spock’s character. Why can he choose not to feel when it comes to Uhura. But when it comes to his mother and later, when Kirk’s dying, he can’t?

Why is KIRK the one who runs out first to help Uhura, while Spock hangs back with security and comes out later?

everythingisilluminated

Spock never said that he successfully stopped to feel when he wanted, only that he tried to when his feelings were too much.
He desperately wants to not feel sometimes but he does feel all the times.
Vulcans don’t talk about their feelings but they wouldn’t need kolinar if they didn’t have any feelings to control. Spock’s gets the feelings part from both his sides not just the human one, even his father admitted that.

YourPalFriendpatine

That’s my point. Spock successfully chose not to feel both in the volcano and when Uhura was attacked by the Klingons. Yet when his mother was insulted/died and when Kirk was dying, he couldn’t. Hence my dislike of how the relationship’s been portrayed. Spock can’t control his feelings when it comes to his mother and Kirk and yet he does so in regards to Uhura.

You can say Uhura’s the love of Spock’s life, but, personally speaking, I’d prefer it if my significant other came to my rescue before my BOSS of all people.

beck0974

Your dislike is based on the fact that YOUR slash ship isn’t canon. In both of those instances, Spock was caught off guard. He didn’t know his mother was going to die. He didn’t know Kirk was going to sacrifice himself. However, you can bet your ass that he’d calculated the risks of going down in the volcano AND had resolved within himself to not feel anything if things didn’t work out.

But you know, great job trying to downplay Uhura’s place in Spock’s life. It’s not like you all haven’t been trotting out the same tired reasoning since 2009. I DO wished you all would be more creative.

Further, if Spock had been the one being irrational and jumping the gun, you all would label him as OOC, pretty much what you all do every single time Spock reacts to Uhura in anyway. You’d label Uhura a “damsel in distress” that needs her boyfriend to save her.

YourPalFriendpatine

Why are you bringing in slash ships? Did I say Spock was in romantic love with Kirk? NOPE. Because then I’d have to imply the same thing about his MOM, and I’m not really into incest. No offense if that’s your thing, though.

I’m not downplaying anything — I’m pointing out the way events occurred onscreen — that Spock lost control of himself in regards to his mother and Kirk, but not with Uhura. Which is why that whole speech about how “you mistake my choice not to feel as a reflection of my not caring when I assure you the truth is precisely the opposite” reads as 100% grade-A bull. If choosing not to feel means he doesn’t care, then why are his reactions to his mother and Kirk completely 100% the OPPOSITE of that?

That’s my point. I mean, the film itself basically shows that Spock was BS-ing himself in the end. When kirk asks him “How do you choose not to feel?” he says, “I do not know. Right now I am failing.” That’s the big, heavy emotional scene with Spock crying and the swelling music. And it freaking contradicts everything he said to Uhura while lining up with Spock’s reaction to his mother’s death.

I’m not asking that Spock be “irrational” — I’m asking that when a Klingon grabs his girlfriend’s face (while reaching for a freaking knife) and Harrison starts firing that he’s a bit faster to go and help her out. Given that Kirk’s WAY ahead of him, I’m sorry that I feel he could show a little more care when someone he loves is in mortal danger.

madmadia85

Funny, that’s the Spock speech that you spirk fans keep trying to pretend it was for kirk and not uhura and you constantly remove ‘nyota’ from it and add that quote below posts about kirk and spock as a romantic couple, with absolute nonchalance.
Too much for a scene that you think is inconsistent and a nonsense.

YourPalFriendpatine

What is your obsession with Kirk? Guess what, genius? Even if Spock didn’t love Uhura, THAT WOULDN’T MAGICALLY MEAN HE’S IN LOVE WITH KIRK. Duh. Also, way to not address any of my points. But here, I can quote the WHOLE thing since your issue seems to be that I didn’t include her name (instead of the actual content of my argument):

“You misunderstand. It is true I chose not to feel anything upon realizing my own life was ending. As Admiral Pike was dying, I joined with his consciousness and experienced what he felt at the moment of his passing. Anger. Confusion. Loneliness. Fear. I had experiences those feelings before, multiplied exponentially on the day my planet was destroyed. Such a feeling is something I choose never to experience again. Nyota, you mistake my choice not to feel as a reflection of my not caring. Well, I assure you, the truth is precisely the opposite.”

Which is why I keep bringing up how Spock’s reaction to Kirk’s death is consistent with his reaction to his MOM’s death. Maybe you all ship incest, heck if I know.

madmadia85

Yeah right, you are plagiarizing the meta of that one kirk/spock fan..
Obviously, you think we take you less seriously if we know you are a bitter slash shipper..and you are right.

YourPalFriendpatine

LOL. So first I’m a “bitter slash fangirl” and now I’m a plagiarist. What’s next? You going to call me a Republican? Mao? Stalin? Here’s a hint — calling people names doesn’t legitimize your argument or make their wrong. It’s actually called an ad hominem attack. And even if I WAS Stalin, that wouldn’t make the point I’m making wrong. If Stalin says “It’s probably a bad idea to invade Russia in winter” him being a mass murderer doesn’t make him wrong. But I see how you’re trying avoid actually engaging with my points and it’s quite amusing.

everythingisilluminated

The proof of the pudding is the fact that many deem spock/chapel as more acceptable than spock/uhura because the first was completely one sided while in the reboot he has a relationship with uhura, kisses her, embraces her, almost confessed his love for her in both movies. She saw a side of him no one else was allowed to see and she’s portrayed as the convincing love of his life and that scares the hell out of the purists because they know that he would never be in that relationship if he wasn’t in love. This is Spock not Kirk, you can dismiss Kirk’s love interests but not the girlfriend of a vulcan who are super monogamous and make bonds for life.

YourPalFriendpatine

Honestly, though, although I’m not happy with what they’ve done with Uhura so far (she’s barely developed — we know she speaks all three dialects of Romulan, Vulcan, Klingon; was Spock’s best student, and Gaila’s roommate and that’s about it which is pathetic given that she’s the third most prominent character), she’s FAR from the worst thing about the new films.

The way Kirk treats women is FAR more misogynistic — Uhura in the first film and then Carol in Star Trek Into Darkness.

Not to mention how brutally Spock’s character has been destroyed (the number of times he’s out of character…). He can come across as violently unbalanced at times which is…just wrong.

lespigeon

I always wonder when I stumble across scathing critiques of nu!Uhura, how any self described ‘huge fan’ of TOS Uhura, could be:

a) ignorant of all the things Nichelle Nichols has said about her time playing the character and the racism and sexism she faced and how heavily it impacted Uhura’s role in the original series and movies, because she’s always been open about her experiences, a 30 second google of her will have you finding relevant quotes;

b) not understand that black and white female sexuality is fetishised by western media in different ways and why a black female romantic lead in a franchise this big is kind of a huge deal even if you don’t like the way it was done;

&

c) make claims about nu!Uhura’s competence and intelligence in comparison to TOS, when out of the Uhura scenes in the TOS verse, we have gems like these as highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxk1BSQo8bg
A strip tease song and dance as a distraction (I don’t think even Abrams would have stooped so low…)

and

The worst of them all imo. Nichelle argued against this stupid scene, (side note: WHY WOULD THEY HAVE MUSTY ASS BOOKS ON A SPACESHIP!?!), since, rightly so, she thought it was ridiculous and insulting that Uhura as a decorated Communications Expert wouldn’t speak freaking conversational Klingon. Because it is. Insulting. The Klingons have been a major player in human history for hoooow long at this stage??? Her apparent incompetence is literally the butt of the joke.

Sooo, just FYI, the moment you start saying TOS Uhura was better instead of pointing out ways nu!Uhura could have been improved, you out yourself as at best ignorant of any sort of understanding of her character and in no position to be critiquing it and at worse, idk, willfully ignorant? racist? just plain thoughtless and dumb? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt but really this crap is insulting.

Do you lack basic human empathy? Can you really not see the problem here?

Any trek fan that’s ever listened to Nichelle talk about her character or followed her interviews even a little, will wonder wtf you are talking about. Cause it’s just… like, you saying that your opinion and understanding of Uhura is better than the woman who brought her to life.

Sam

I just find it disheartening that it’s 2015 and we are still debating how women need to be portrayed one way or the other in order to be seen as worthwhile female characters. A woman having a romantic relationship does not make her a weak character or anti feminist. Reboot Uhura has plenty to do outside of her romantic relationship, and she is entitled to have a personal life just like any of the men in the films. If people want more for her that is fine, but wanting more for her should not come at the request that everything she already does have gets taken away. I mean, how does that make sense? I also find it sad that why TOS Uhura was single is often ignored. Racism and sexism kept her in the background and racism kept her from being able to have a romance with Spock or any other man on the show. Her character finally being able to experience the kind of relationship she has in the reboot is a step up when you take all of that into consideration. Furthermore, given that when it comes to how TOS trek was structured in particular, it seems to me that most of the secondary characters primarily came into importance emotionally due to their connection to the protagonist. Kirk was the lead in TOS, and Spock and McCoy earned more attention and development because of their connection to him. So how is it bad that Uhura now has a larger emotionally relevant role due to her connection to Spock and Kirk in the reboot. Are people saying only men are allowed to have feelings and emotional connections and personal lives, because that doesn’t seem like feminism to me. That seems like sexism masquerading as some twisted form of faux feminist crap that is ultimately really about holding women to unrealistic standards.