Dave, I was simply confirming the accuracy of the statement Steve Shaw has made, which you and I have no difficulty understanding - that 37% of the electorate voted Leave. That is an absolute, incontestable fact - borne out by the numbers provided by our Resident Troll himself.

Our Resident Troll seems to be getting his frillies wedged in his bum-crack on the basis of his own misunderstanding of Steve’s point.

Dave, I was simply confirming the accuracy of the statement Steve Shaw has made, which you and I have no difficulty understanding - that 37% of the electorate voted Leave. That is an absolute, incontestable fact - borne out by the numbers provided by our Resident Troll himself.

Our Resident Troll seems to be getting his frillies wedged in his bum-crack on the basis of his own misunderstanding of Steve’s point.

I have made the same point over and over again, BWM. 37% of the electorate wanted us to leave. 36% wanted to stay. Of the remaining 27% no one has any idea what they wanted. The "will of the people" lie was put about by the Eton toffs, snake oil salesmen and nicotine stained spivs to fool people into thinking they were working for democracy rather than their own self interest. And some still believe them. I cannot blame those who do. The con artists have had years of practice and they are very good at it. The best we can do is just tell the truth and hope that we will eventually get the message through.

Incidentlly I have requested of the mods that if the increasingly disfunction behaviour of this individual continues he be stopped I really see no reason whatever why we should have to put up with his continuing abusive behaviour Jim Carroll

Leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson has resigned It seems the predictions of the break-up of the UK are coming home to roost A senior Tory MP has stated that the rights of the people of Northern Ireland are being ignored United we fall - eh !! Jim Carroll

Here's where we are, MkII: 37% of the electorate voted leave. Almost as many voted remain. The two issues now causing the most angst, the Irish border issue and the prospect of no-deal, were hardly on the table at all during the referendum campaign. The biggest brexit issues were simply not upfront. They were certainly not on the ballot paper. Yet now we have an UNELECTED prime minister leading a MINORITY government who thinks he has a mandate to push through a no-deal brexit, so much so that he is prepared to suspend Parliament in order to obstruct what our ELECTED representatives are elected by us to do. He has packed his cabinet with lackeys, liars (see my post of 05.41AM) and brexit ultras in order to mute his own party's opposition, knowing that almost all Tories are far more interested in protecting their own greedy, unwashed arses than in the country's interests. Well let's hope that that little "almost" will be enough to nobble him. And let's hope that the positive coalition of opposition parties that came about on Tuesday will hold.

I heard Jake Rich-Mong pompously holding forth on BBC News this morning, something about ‘true believers’. Easy to be a ‘true believer’ when you know that ‘No Deal’ means no restrictions on your tax-dodging activities, and that your already-immense wealth is set to become even immenser!

And before Nigs and our Resident Right-Wing Troll come in to pick nits and tell me there’s no such word as ‘immenser’ - I’m fully aware, I just used it for a bit of fun.

Tory Whip, Lord Young has resigned from the Government Legal challenges to suspending parliament now being considered Lord Snooty Mogg blames it all on those who don't want to believe A sick Joke Jim Carroll

Tory Whip, Lord Young has resigned from the Government Legal challenges to suspending parliament now being considered Lord Snooty Mogg blames it all on those who don't want to believe A sick Joke Jim Carroll

I'm not usually interested in what Tories or ex-Tories think, but I spotted this just now on Twitter from Nick Boles:

"The only person who could have tempted me to return to the Conservative fold is Ruth Davidson MSP. Her characteristically honourable and human decision removes the last significant voice of liberal, progressive conservatism from the party."

Ruth Davidson is one of those very few Tories who get me puzzling over why they're Tories at all. In the past I've had the same thoughts about Anna Soubry, Justine Greening, Sarah Wollaston and Dominic Grieve. Just musing...

When you get a Prime Minister whose female colleagues have said they would be afraid to ride home with him in the same car, you you know the country is on the skids British Politics has now reached the 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' level I wish some of you fellers could be here when I go down for my newspaper in the morning - the entertainment level soars to 'That Was the Week That Was" heights when "Britain" or "Brexit" is mentioned These morons and their arse-kissers have made Britain an International laughing-stock Jim

Observe what this bunch of lying and hypocritical Tory shits were saying about prorogation just a few short weeks ago (extracted from a Guardian piece and all quotes):

During the recent Tory leadership contest, the health secretary, Matt Hancock, said the idea of suspending parliament “goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought & died for – and I will not have it”.

Hancock wrote to parliament parliament on 6 June, saying that “England is the mother of all parliaments – respected as such around the free world”.

“To suspend Parliament explicitly to pursue a course of action against its wishes is not a serious policy of a prime minister in the 21st Century,” the letter said.

Amber Rudd, the work and pensions secretary, in June described the suspending of parliament as “absolutely outrageous”.

“The idea of leaving the EU to take back more control into parliament and to consider the idea of closing parliament to do that is the most extraordinary idea I’ve ever heard,” she said.

“It is a ridiculous suggestion to consider proroguing parliament. For a start it would involve approaching the Queen and nobody should consider doing that,” she said.

The now chancellor, Sajid Javid, was also vehemently opposed to shutting down parliament, during the Tory leadership campaign, saying: “You don’t deliver on democracy by trashing democracy ... we are not selecting a dictator of our country”

The international trade secretary and longtime Johnson defender Liz Truss told the BBC’s Emily Maitlis in June that the idea of suspending parliament was an “archaic manoeuvre” that Johnson had already ruled out. “He wants to bring parliament with him,” she said. She was asked: “He’s definitely ruling out proroguing or suspending parliament, is that right?” Her answer was: “That’s right.”

Staunchly pro-leave Michael Gove, now chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, was also against suspending parliament, telling the BBC’s Andrew Marr show: “I think it will be wrong for many reasons. I think it would not be true to the best traditions of British democracy”.

The culture secretary Nicky Morgan told the BBC’s Question Time programme that proroguing parliament was “clearly a mad suggestion”.

“You cannot say you are going to take back control … and then go: ‘Oh, by the way, we are just going to shut parliament down for a couple of months, so we are just going to drift out on a no deal’,” she said.

Asked in July if she would go along with a plan to suspend parliament to ensure a no-deal Brexit, Andrea Leadsom, a leading supporter of Boris Johnson, and now the business secretary, said: “No I don’t believe I would and I don’t believe it would happen.”

I wonder when perfectly legal ‘protest’ and ‘demonstration’ became reclassified as ‘rioting’?

And, of course, the lunatics - led by Johnson, Rees-Mogg, et al, following the instructions of the likes of the Barclay Bros and the Wrinkly Antipodean - have already taken over the asylum, and are running around with cans of petrol in preparation for burning it down.

There is now a move afoot by MPs who object to their rights being overidden by The Fat Controller, to occupy Parliament

Meanwhile - back in La-la Land Seizing Power in order to force though a decision arrived at by stirring race and community hatred which has so far led to an unprecedented spike in hate crimes and at least one death = democracy The People legally turning out on the streets to protest the fact that the democratic voice has been been silenced = RIOTING A British citizen choosing to live elsewhere other than Britain = a crime punishable by banishment apparently Acoording to someone who has boasted of having bought two farms in The South West of Ireland My point proven far better than I could have managed it, I think - That's my fun for today Dave - apologies - back to the adult world Jim Carroll

The idea of another referendum (a third, not a second) is one that I've reluctantly come to see as the only way out of all this, but it has nothing to do with the firestorm of the last 24 hours. This is about trying to prevent a NO-DEAL brexit, not preventing brexit altogether. It would be good if we tried not to lose that focus.

Polls can be quite useful, unlike those silly vox pops indulged in by the Beeb. The only effect of those is to increase disillusionment over people's apparent inability to get to grips with the issues and think for themselves. Proper polls try hard to investigate a large representative sample of people with non-leading questions. Any other kind of "survey" is a waste of time. You might as well ask the punters at a racecourse whether they like horses.

If the Labour Party and the elected workesr movements have anything worth offering, they will abandon Parliamentary tactics and take the people onto the streets in their masses to restore a semblance of the democracy that has been breached by the self-interest thugs

What an asinine post. Inciting rioting in the UK while hiding in the west of Ireland. What planet do you live on?

As I keep saying the majority voted to leave the EU. Recent polls suggest the majority fully agree with proroguing Parliament.(89% of readers of the express. No. Polled >16k) As one interviewee said " “Yes. It is right to prorogue parliament. It is a law to implement Brexit, and yet all sorts of delays blocking are being orchestrated by the very same people who voted for Brexit to become a law." Another said, “Yes, Boris is entirely correct to prorogue our rogue Parliament, which descended into mass hysteria and is defying the will of the people in the referendum that it ordered. A third commenter said: “Haha, just look at faces on these treasonous remainers now. Last time I saw this many long faces, I was watching the Grand National.”

A forth, referring to the Commons Speaker, said: “Of course it’s right. Otherwise this thing could drag on for years. Plus it could be a chance to get rid of that odious little creep Bercow.”

A fifth keen voter added: “Can I vote 500 times because the answer would be YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES............500 times!!”

In the real world the majority view expressed on here by disgruntled remainers is resoundingly a minority, albeit a very shouty one.

"Not A NO-DEAL BREXIT, Steve." That is typical of the distortion that sold this 'cat-in-a-bag' distortion in the fist place It was bought by a large enough minority of the British people to squeeze it through by a hair's breadth and now that it has obviously become totally unacceptable, those who benefit from the dangerous populism that has been let out of the bottle, democracy has been dispelled with totally because it has become an obstacle to the ambitions of the few. Leaving Europe is no longer an issue; with some people, I doubt if it ever has been - it is about the maintenance of power by mob-rule (aka 'populism') - by appealing to peoples' prejudices rather than their intelligence and natural humanity

Brexit has proved itself a bad decision - the Government's own survey has shown it to be a dangerous step backwards - economically, socially and politically - even the bullies here trying to bluster their non-arguments through realise that - that's why they have refused to discuss the real issues from day one One sneers and struts - the other makes his quick jibes and beats it until the coast is clear

Watching this circus from a distance has made me realise how vastly superior a PR system of voting is to the first-past-the-post decisions This mess has come about simply by the success of appealing to the prejudices of a significant minority of the British people - mob rule Johnson, Farage.... and the rest of them know this - and they know they will not get away with it again - that's why they refuse the people a second chance to right a bad decision.

If the Labour Party and the elected workesr movements have anything worth offering, they will abandon Parliamentary tactics and take the people onto the streets in their masses to restore a semblance of the democracy that has been breached by the self-interest thugs Jim Carroll

You don't read my posts. Long before Corbyn accepted that he couldn't run an emergency government, I posted in this thread that he couldn't do it, that his star had fallen. I've also been a long-time critic of the democratic deficit in the EU, the upshot of what John Seymour called gigantism. But that deficit pales beside the constant attempts by May to sidestep Parliament and by Johnson's attempt to prorogue Parliament. As a side note, I'd suggest you revisit the comments by Gove and Javid of just a few weeks ago, condemning out of hand the very idea of proroguing. Hypocrisy and lying personified. Don't force me to quote. It's all out there for your delectation.

Finally, how easy and lazy of you to cod-paraphrase my post instead of giving us your considered thoughts. Very defensive, very brainless, utterly witless, though, admittedly, quick and devoid of the need for effort. I put my original thoughts in my posts, Stanron, whatever you think of them. One fine day we might just get some of yours. Must try harder, Stanron.

Steve Shaw wrote: Well done, Stanron, for swallowing hook, line and sinker the disingenuous and dishonest claptrap of the Johnson regime. Prorogation can be for one day. The Queen's Speech can follow the next day. But prorogation is lasting nearly FIVE WEEKS. It's blatantly obvious to all bar the brain-dead that this move is a kneejerk reaction to the unity shown by all opposition parties yesterday, who declared that they wanted to take the thoroughly democratic, legislative path towards trying to prevent A NO-DEAL BREXIT. Not brexit, Stanron: A NO-DEAL BREXIT. That which not one person in this country thought they were voting for, not even you if you're honest. If you have the Tory numbers in the House, Stanron, then what are you afraid of? If you haven't got the Tory numbers, you know why? Because some of your side will defect. Not our side, Stanron, yours. Without Tories, we haven't got the numbers. Without defectors from you Tories, we can't do it. It's what we call Parliamentary democracy, Stanron, that thing that you lot are supposedly trying to rescue from the clutches of the EU. But it's there and useful only when it suits you, it seems. Open your eyes, old boy. You and your side are the ones in all this suffering from the severest form of democratic deficit. We want our ELECTED representatives to have their say. You want your UNELECTED leader to stop them. Ironic, really, when you've been rattling on for three years about how undemocratic the EU is, eh?

Well done, Steve Shaw, for swallowing hook, line and sinker the disingenuous and dishonest claptrap of the Labour party line.

It's blatantly obvious to all bar the brain-dead that this move is a kneejerk reaction to the attempt at unity shown by all opposition parties yesterday, who failed to take a thoroughly undemocratic, legislative path towards trying to prevent brexit. Not A NO-DEAL BREXIT, Steve. They want to prevent any kind of Brexit.

I don't claim to be a mind reader and don't know why other people voted as they did. I know I voted to leave the EU and ALL it's institutions.

If you have the betrayal numbers in the House, Steve, then what are you afraid of? If you haven't got the betrayal numbers, you know why? Because some of your side will defect. Not just our side, Steve, yours too. The whole two or three year mess is a result of neither side having the numbers.

Parliamentary democracy, Steve, has already passed the laws that say we leave the EU after Halloween, with or without an agreement. With your attempts to prevent this happening, you and your side are the ones who are suffering from the severest form of democratic deficit. We want the decisions of our ELECTED representatives to be implemented. You want your UNELECTED coalition to stop them. Ironic, really, when you've been rattling on for three years about how democratic the EU is, eh?

Well done, Stanron, for swallowing hook, line and sinker the disingenuous and dishonest claptrap of the Johnson regime. Prorogation can be for one day. The Queen's Speech can follow the next day. But prorogation is lasting nearly FIVE WEEKS. It's blatantly obvious to all bar the brain-dead that this move is a kneejerk reaction to the unity shown by all opposition parties yesterday, who declared that they wanted to take the thoroughly democratic, legislative path towards trying to prevent A NO-DEAL BREXIT. Not brexit, Stanron: A NO-DEAL BREXIT. That which not one person in this country thought they were voting for, not even you if you're honest. If you have the Tory numbers in the House, Stanron, then what are you afraid of? If you haven't got the Tory numbers, you know why? Because some of your side will defect. Not our side, Stanron, yours. Without Tories, we haven't got the numbers. Without defectors from you Tories, we can't do it. It's what we call Parliamentary democracy, Stanron, that thing that you lot are supposedly trying to rescue from the clutches of the EU. But it's there and useful only when it suits you, it seems. Open your eyes, old boy. You and your side are the ones in all this suffering from the severest form of democratic deficit. We want our ELECTED representatives to have their say. You want your UNELECTED leader to stop them. Ironic, really, when you've been rattling on for three years about how undemocratic the EU is, eh?

I subvert the will of the majority every chance I get if I think said majority is wrong. I live in the southern US and am an atheist, so it isn't just the orange guy's will I try to subvert. Not that he was elected by a majority, but his followers outnumber me here...

How pleasant that the squealing remainiacs are now starting to realize how the silent majority feel about their majority decision to leave the EU being constantly frustrated for the past three years. I am beginning to think there is a slight chance we may yet leave the fascist EU on the 31st of October. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! and send her victorious and send all those whining remainers such as soubry and compo packing. There will be a lot of MPs in need of alternative careers very shortly. Treachery brings just rewards! What on earth goes through their minds,to think they can subvert the will of the majority?

In the US The constitution declares that the sovereignty lies with the people and the constitution is the embodiment and solemn expression of the will of the people. A shame so many parliamentarians do not share the same view.

The reaction of the UK Left Remainers is, as usual, overblown. The State Opening Of Parliament has taken place annually with very few exceptions throughout and since the twentieth century. Last year was one of those exceptions. To not do it again this year would be completely unprecedented, especially as a new Prime Minister will always want to set up his or her own, new, political agenda. That requires a new Queens speech and that requires prorogation. There was no time to do it before the summer holidays, after that is three weeks of Party Conferences. After that is the obvious time to do it.

Yesterday felt like the best day for democracy for years. All the opposition parties agreed that they would use parliamentary process, the thing which brexiteers supposedly wanted to rescue from those unelected (a lie, of course) Brussels bureaucrats to defeat not brexit but the thing that no-one in this country voted for, a no-deal crashout.

Today, the kneejerk reaction to that by a millionaire UNELECTED toff, supported by the seven-times UNELECTED Brexit Party leader and with the grubby fingerprints of an UNELECTED adviser in Downing Street all over the scheme, is to abandon parliamentary democracy and take away all control from the people we did elect. A bloody dark day, unless you love cheats and liars.

In the end we are facing division that has been created by one side only by even contemplating anything so divisive. Division what, in the end, was as a result of a vague which was one one reassurances by its main protagonists would mean a future relationship along the lines of EEA, followed by red lines which automatically precluded this, as well as a rising tide of hatred directed towards European Nationals living in the UK. What we have now is a far right government forcing through their agenda. I do not advocate or even relish division escalating into extreme violence, but Johnson has now lit the blue touch paper, and I fear nothing can be done to stop this happening. At lease May had the good sense when she was Home Secretary to forbid the use of Johnson's water cannons - about the onlt decent thing she ever did.

I am not advocating murder, I never would. I made my views plain on that in comments I have made about capital punishment where I would vote not guilty rather than have anyone put to death supposed in my name. I am not even recommending violence - though the toe of my post might suggest otherwise - their are ore subtle forms of retribution. I will not change my position, however on the line I would take if I was on a jury.

"you are also justifying the murder of Jo Cox. " Brexit's first victim - more to come It's a bit 'shutting the door after the donkey's done a runner to talk of violence Dave Go ask the victims of the spike in hate crimes brought about by this scummy so called democratic vote I'm not advocating that anybody should take a leaf out the rightist book but don't be surprised if they do Jim

Sorry, SPB. I understand your fury at this but in advocating violence against politicians you are also justifying the murder of Jo Cox. We should never, under any circumstances, use the same level of violence as the extremists. Civil unrest against unjust laws is one thing. Murder is another.

Will it really come as any surprise when the people take democracy into their own hands on the basis that a lying **** like Johnson can just overrule elected parliamentary representatives and dictate to 68 million people. If that happens and I am on a jury where the defendants mete out their own version of justice I would have no problem voting not guilty (as is my right) on the grounds that their victims were only getting what they deserve, and proportionately the damage the victims did to society is much greater.

Does this really come as a surprise ? Bitan has ben swinging to the right since the the powers that be allowed shite like Farage to take the lead in this referendum Better get used to the idea that from now on democracy will be a moveable feast Jim Carroll

It was at the request of the Privy Council including Mogg. Of course all the leavers will be gloating because they got what they wanted as if it is nothing but a fucking game. In reality they got fuck all, expect fucking up peoples lives, young people's opportunities in the future. When the reality hits I will have no sympathy whatsoever if people whose lives they damaged knock their teeth down their throats - or worse.

To the mods - please excuse my anger profane language - I am not usually like this. surprised that my heart rate is only 94 bpm. Went up to 104 now down to 80.

You carefully overlook the fact the Major prorogued Parliament for six weeks in order to avoid the cash for questions embarrassment. As the mirror succinctly says: He’s setting the date for a Queen’s Speech and State Opening of Parliament (which happen together on the same day).

This effectively reboots Parliament, setting off a new ‘session’ and shutting down the old one.

This process called "proroguing" usually happens every year - but it doesn’t have to, and Theresa May chose not to have a Queen’s Speech in 2018-19, so she’d have more time to push Brexit plans through. That means we've now had the longest gap between Queen's Speeches for more than 400 years. To trigger a Queen's Speech Parliament has to have a short break, which usually lasts a few days. This time Boris has made it longer. Quite a normal constitutional process. Democracyt rules and remainiacs are spitting nails. They are talking about a coup and all sorts of other nonsense. One day they will have to accept the majority won the referendum and their choice was to leave the EU either with or without a deal. Time for another Carry On film......Carry on squealing!

So the US press seems to be reporting he's asked her to suspend Parliament, and the British press seems to say she has. Has Parliament been suspended? At Boris' request?

Almost. He has asked for it to be suspended from 10 September until 14th October, and the Queen has agreed. In practice, she had no alternative. There will now follow days of legal challenges and frenetic activity in Parliament to see if anything can be done before 10th.

Whatever you think about the pros and cons of Brexit, this sets a very dangerous precedent whereby any PM could suspend Parliament for weeks - and why not months if it suited - pretty much whenever they found it convenient.