I don't remember Patrick ever saying he was wrong about anything. When he had good blade-work but no quad, quads were over-rated and guys like Plushenko and Joubert were laughable imposters.

Now that he has a quad, quads are king and everyone who doesn't do one in the SP -- like Takahashi -- is a wimp and a twerp.

Oh well, that's my boy.

I think he explained it pretty well (article is a bit sarcastic though), I minded Chan comments last year when he was talking about other skaters rather than his skating but he has toned it down this year I think, or at least he did a gorgeous quad today. Still I dont like he brings Takahashi or Plushenko or anyone who have much more years under their skates, it is a matter of well manners, but at least he doesnt laugh with Nichol about others programs anymore.

Again you use the term "clean" as if it means perfect (or technically superior).

Chan's Quad-Triple combination certainly DOES justify a high score even with a fall on the Triple Axel. That is such a difficult combination and the quality with which he did it was higher than the quality of Abbott's combination.

Chan's spins were a LOT better than Abbott's as well, so he deservedly scored higher on the technical mark. It perhaps shouldn't have been quite AS high, sure, but that's because of the poor judging system and not the judging itself: getting -GOE doesn't take off as many point as it should (although spins also don't receive as much +GOE as they really should, so that actually balances it out -- Chan's technical mark was fair).

Jeremy's program is improved from NHK, that was very good to see. I would have scored him higher than Chan on Performance and Interpretation. I don't feel that Chan felt his music especially well or put a lot of energy into the actual performance.

ITA. Chan was the winner of this SP for me, fall or not (not very many points lost on a fall now as long as you rotate).

Jeremy's program is improved from NHK, that was very good to see. I would have scored him higher than Chan on Performance and Interpretation. I don't feel that Chan felt his music especially well or put a lot of energy into the actual performance.

From my layman's point of view, I agree with you. I enjoy Abbot's interpretation more than Chan's.

I wouldnt be surprised if this fiasco continues if the other mens skaters get together and file a protest about Chan's scores just like they did about Galit Chait's scores in the dance event at the 2002 Worlds.

I wouldn't be surprised if this fiasco continues and it turns out that you were bought by a strong and heavily political federation to incite outcry against Chan's scores through all internet forums. Which fedeartion are you working for? Let my wild imagination begin....Oh, there is a piece of evidence, which states clearly in your handle "pangtongfan"....must be an Asian federation....

Anyway, my point is that you can see how ridiculous and inappropriate it sounds when one lets his imagination go wild without any clear evidence to support it.

I think he explained it pretty well (article is a bit sarcastic though), I minded Chan comments last year when he was talking about other skaters rather than his skating but he has toned it down this year I think, or at least he did a gorgeous quad today. Still I dont like he brings Takahashi or Plushenko or anyone who have much more years under their skates, it is a matter of well manners, but at least he doesnt laugh with Nichol about others programs anymore.

He laughed with Nichol about others' programs? That kid needs some spanking, and spank that Nichol lady as well for being a poor role model!!!

I have no problem with Chan's score. His landed jumps were very nice, even from the video I was totally wowed by 4t-3t! I can't imagine what it would've been like in the arena! But I wish his performance was more energetic, though. Not much interesting or memorable choreography in that program...

And Chan claimed that he could do 4T better than 3A, which was taken by many as boasting. It turned out he was telling the truth, wasn't he? That kid has gotten himself into many troubles for telling the truth. I guess many skating fans don't want to hear the truth, nor can they handle the truth. They want beautiful skating and sugar-coated talk. They want a star or an idol for worship instead of an honest, unsophisticated human being that goes through growing-up pains and missteps as does everybody else.

From my layman's point of view, I agree with you. I enjoy Abbot's interpretation more than Chan's.

I agree with Blades, too. Abbot did put more energy into his performance. But somehow I did not enjoy it as much as Chan's. I almost think Abbot's style is too forced, like he is trying too hard to emote. Jeremy, to me, somehow manages not to engage the audience enough and at the same time look like he's trying too hard to do so. I didn't think that about him last year but this year I do. Maybe it's just that that SP is too overloaded. But that is a matter of taste and I guess there are no deductions for over-performing. Or trying to.

I agree with Blades, too. Abbot did put more energy into his performance. But somehow I did not enjoy it as much as Chan's. I almost think Abbot's style is too forced, like he is trying too hard to emote. Jeremy, to me, somehow manages not to engage the audience enough and at the same time look like he's trying too hard to do so. I didn't think that about him last year but this year I do. Maybe it's just that that SP is too overloaded. But that is a matter of taste and I guess there are no deductions for over-performing. Or trying to.

I would say the ease of Chan's skating is more evident. Abbot's seems more forced. Does that count into the performance category? That's why I said that Abbot's interpretation is better than Chan's, but I am not sure if it still holds true for "performance".

I would say the ease of Chan's skating is more evident. Abbot's seems more forced. Does that count into the performance category? That's why I said that Abbot's interpretation is better than Chan's, but I am not sure if it still holds true for "performance".

I about agree with this. Abbot's interpretation was better. Maybe his performance was better too. But Performance/Execution are the same mark right? Isn't there a whole thread on this? I would say Chan executed most of his elements better. (except the 3a OF COURSE before anyone jumps all over me.) However, Abbot somehow felt like he was putting more effort into the performance - not just the musical interpretation but into transmitting to the audience.

The fact you are suggesting his triple axel which is just an average jump even when he lands it (not that there are many occasions he does) would possibly get +3 in GOE had he landed it cleanly already says enough. Nice to admit to the fraud scoring, even while supposably defending it.

You can't judge something that has not happened, can you? To debate on whether his jump should get full credit on GOE or not when the actual jump was not there sounds so ...funny. I said "possibly" which means there was a possibility. And there was something worth to take into consideration. I don't know the protocols yet, and still hasn't had a chance to look at them. My position, from what I've seen in their performances, was and is that the placement was correct. I was defending that Chan should get first place this time. I should ask, where was the fraud?

I think that a lot of Chan's moves look better on their own but they don't necessarily speak to the music better and he doesn't necessarily put a lot of soul and energy into the performance, even if he does move across the ice superbly.

They are about equal for me on PCS with those performances. Chan wins on technical merit because his spins were a lot better. If Jeremy's spins were better that would not only help his technical mark, but also his choreography. I really dislike the cross-foot sit-spin that several of the skaters are trying to do this season. His flying upright spin was not impressive either.