11/22 http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/22/news/economy/Bush_APEC
Bush pushes for free trade, allowing unskilled and uneducated work
to move to overseas so that unskilled and uneducated Americans
can get better education in community college where they can be
productive again in corporations like Walmart and McDonalds.

11/22 I have a masterlock padlock that is closed and locked up, but
I forgot the combo. Is there anyway I can open it up? Any useful
ideas appreciated. Thanks!
\_ If it were so easy for common people to open it up, every thief
would be doing it already. Your two choices are: locksmith
(a lot of them are former lock pick criminals) or bruce force.
Fortunately, most combo locks are not very secure so bruce
force works quite well. Most padlocks can be broken by punching
it at a certain angle with a huge hammer. Look it up.
\_ bolt cutter or locksmith.
\_ the goal was to avoid those. -op
\_ http://www.wikihow.com/Crack-a-%22Master-Lock%22-Combination-Lock
I have never tried this, btw, so I can't verify if it works.
If you do verify, let me know, thanks.

11/22 people of berkeley, anyone have on old TRAC phone or suitable
unlocked phone that takes a small sim chip? I need one for a
few days in the future. i will give you cash! let me know - danh
\_ I have an unlocked Treo 650 that takes a regular sim card.
Will that work for you?
\_ sure. email me. i need to let some korean house guests
use phone while in states.

11/22 Pension gap divides public and private workers:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-20-pensions-cover_x.htm
At what point do we Just Say No? Making more money *after*
retiring seems like an issue. I say this as someone with family
who retired from the military who makes more now than when active.
Ridiculous.
\_ Come back when you stay at your crappy public sector job for 20+
\_ have you ever served?
\_ Public sector do not get stock options, generally do not get
bonuses, they do not get 401k matching, they do not have ESPP
options [there are obscure exceptions], they dont have crazy
expense accounts, they get most of their income on W-2, so their
tax loopholes are limited [compared to say 1099 people]. Sure
there are lame public sector employees and there is fraud and
corruption, but it's silly to focus as a class on military or
say CALPERS pensions. Take a look at something like the finance
industry which actively conspires with its elites by structuring
compensation [moving income to cap gains], paying for what is
clearly private income as corporate expense [car leases, club
memberships, subsidized loans], helping individual incorporate etc.
[yes, i know there are some exception to the above]. You might
looking at how LLNL is doing under public vs private management
(when Bechtel took over, people were basically kicked out of
CALPERS) ... $280M in cost overrruns and the lab continues to
deteriorate. Note also: the quality of "public employee/govt
worker" is quie different at a UCB, the National Labs, or the SEC
vs say the Port of Oakland.
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Schedule
Can you honestly say that these employees are overpaid? I am
a mid-level manager in a Fortune 500 company and I make more
than the Undersecretary of the Navy. This is nuts. Low level
employees, like bus drivers and mechanics, are probably overpaid
in the civil service sector though. We need stronger unions in
the private sector, obviously.
\_ I think people are missing the point here, which is that we
are paying certain people more to *not* work than to work.
That makes absolutely no sense. So for 20 years of good work
\- are you against paid sick leave? how about
employer subsidized health care? how about
employeer subsidized health care? how about
dependent coverage ... i mean that's paying for
people who dont even work for you. the person
missing the point is you, and the point is
"net present value" (of benefits) in this case
[although really there are a few other points ...
risk and return, at will employment vs public sector
terms, and to some extent "the sanctity of contract".
\_ "net present value" is too effing high. Only in your
socialist utopia does someone make more money at
retirement than when working.
\- do you understand the difference between when
money is "made" and when it is "paid"?
the issue is *length of service* i.e. the
amount of time over which you are earning the
money, not the age/time you are collecting it.
there is nothing magically different between
your pension being 99% of your income and 101%.
there is a big difference between whether you
earned it after 20 yrs or 40 yrs or whether
you are gettign paid at age 55 or 65.
these people get 20-30-40 years of paychecks at, or for more
than, the wage they retired at?! That's a sure way to
bankruptcy. I am in private sector and I make more, but at
age 65 I will get jack shit and that's the way most of
industry is. Why should Uncle Sam do any different?
\_ Because those people took lower-paying jobs partly because
of the retirement benefits and job security. A simple
choice of how to run your business, if you're one of the
people who thinks government should run like a business
(it shouldn't). -tom
\_ The jobs are not really that much lower-paying. You
might have a point if they were all working for 50% of
market rates, but the reality is that government
workers are paid pretty well. We've already been over
that.
\_ we've "been over that", you mean, back when you
made ridiculous assertions that were flatly contradicted
by the data you were presenting? -tom
\_ You mean when I showed you that tree trimmers for
LA County were making $70K or something like
that? That workers in SF were routinely making
over $100K? That crazy sysadmin pulled down
something like $120K? The DWP workers pull down
big bucks? Please rely on the actual data
and not your faulty memory and perceptions.
Here's a good start: the link I just posted,
which no one bothered to read.
\_ Data points with no context are meaningless.
The link you just posted is a USA Today story
with an editorial slant and similarly
context-free numbers. -tom
\_ How about the UC article some other kind person
dug up? You are always rationalizing. Get your
head out of the sand and WAKE UP!
\_ The UC article doesn't say anything about
compensation relative to the private
industry. And I agree that people shouldn't
be able to retire and come back to work
full time at the same salary; in fact,
it's against UC policy to do so, and
the article says they're going to
crack down on the very small number of
cases where it has happened. -tom
\_ Those ES level government workers I gave you the wiki
link to are making 50% or less what they would make
for similary responsible jobs in the private sector.
\_ 20 years is an extreme exaggeration, except for the military
you don't retire after 20 years and even there you only make
50% of your active duty salary. You don't make your case
stronger by exaggeration, you just make yourself look
misinformed.
\_ Actual data: If I were to retire from UC at age 50,
with 24 years of service (I started working here at
age 26), I would get less than 30% of my final
salary. -tom
\_ Actual data: read the article
\_ Your confirmation bias is showing. -tom
\_ I'm the one who is biased? Check out how
your UC colleagues are doing.
\_ Did you read the article I posted?
\_ Yes, and it said nothing about retiring at 20 years.
You just made that part up.
\_ How long do you think a police chief worked
who retired at age 46? Certainly not 30 years.
WTF should someone 46 years old be retired and
making $125K/year for the rest of his life to
sit on his ass at taxpayer expense? He might
make more money not working than he did when
he worked over the course of his life. We
can't afford those excesses for civil servants. He
can collect when he's 65 like everyone else.
Getting full salary at that time would be more than
generous. I'd support him getting HALF his salary
at age 65. To get a raise when retiring at age 46
is beyond the pale. He should still be contributing
to society in some way at that young age and
not sitting on his ass cashing checks from the
public.
\_ Once again, you're using one anecdote from
an article with an editorial slant and
with no context, and suggesting that the
issue is meaningful and widespread. It's
not. Aren't you suspicious when the article
says it will "boost his retirement benefit to
*as much as* $125,000 a year"? Why the
qualifier? [Here's why--they're not telling
you the whole story.] You'll believe what
you want to believe, go ahead, but you really
are demonstrating complete cluelessness here.
-tom
\_ http://fireflystudio.com/acton/circle/index.html
"Bill Fenniman retired in January 2007 after 27
years in law enforcement, the last 17 as Chief
of Police in the City of Dover NH." 35% more
than your claim of 20 years, it turns out.
And it turns out that he is contributing.
I hope to retire at 50 on my 401k and savings,
who are you to tell me I can't? I will probably
contribute to society in some way afterward,
but that is my business, isn't it?
\_ 401k and savings is your money. Do as you
wish with it. Not the same as getting
free checks for life starting at age 46.
\_ A worker's pension belongs to that
worker just as much as his 401k does.
-tom
\_ Of course. And how many employers
are contributing enough money to
their 401k plans such that you are
guaranteed to maintain your full-time
salary after you retire? Not many.
The government is paying A LOT more
than market for this. I've been
in the workforce 13 years and
there's barely 1 year worth of
my current salary in my 401k and that
counts my money plus my employer's
very generous 8.5% contribution.
(Most 401ks match a lot less than
this.) I read that the average
employee has about $100K in his 401k.
This dude is getting that each year
guaranteed forever starting at age 46.
As a taxpayer, I feel ripped off.
BTW, EBRI says that the average 401k
balance of someone in their 60s with
30 years of tenure is $190,593.
link:tinyurl.com/2a8a35
\_ If you don't understand why you
can't compare 401k balances
directly with pensions, it's not
worth wasting any more time on
you. -tom
\_ You can't compare directly,
but you can compare.
\_ So you took the gamble of a private
sector job with higher pay and
lower benefits, it hasn't worked out
that well for you, and now you are
upset that others who took the
safer route are doing better? What
a piece of work you are! What is
the value of 15k + 7k employer
is the value of 15k + 7k employer
match invested yearly for 27 years
at a 10% (average stock market)
gain? Here, I will make it really
easy for your: $2.8M. I bet you want
to privatize social security, too.
Am I right?
\_ Most people "take the gamble"
of a private sector job
with roughly THE SAME pay
as the government and end
up worse for it. Another
way of stating this is that
the average person in the
private sector is receiving
less compensation than the
average person in the
public sector. You cannot
count the $15K, because that's
my own money and you should
be aware that $7K is hardly
the average. So your $2.8M
number is bogus. Yes, I do
want to privatize SS, but
that's neither here nor there.
\_ you keep asserting that
public sector employees
are compensated more, but
asserting it over and over
doesn't make it true. -tom
\_ You are full of it. I showed
you the BLS stats that proved
that private and public
sector pay, including benefits
was similar, but you ignored
it.
\_ Stop stomping my edits. As I
was saying, I showed you the BLS
data that public and private
sector workers are paid similary
including benefits and you
ignored it.
\_ http://tinyurl.com/5klnuo
CA says it pays lower
than other public
sector employees and
yet even its salaries
are comparable (and
sometimes even lead) the
private sector.
Salaries, not total
compensation.
\_ ...when you compare the
state maximum to the
private sector median.
\_ Did you read why
the State did that?
\_ yes. the
justification is
ridiculous. -tom
\_ That is not how I read
Table 4. All above average
private sector paying jobs\
pay lower than market rate
when working for The
State (and most below
average paying jobs are
higher, why might that be
do you think?) Managerial
jobs are particularly low
paying.
\_ Sure, and how many
Americans are CFOs
and MDs?
\_ And programmers and
accountants, and
engineers and
nurses and ...
\_ Why don't they just work
for the government then,
if they pay is the same
and the benefits higher?
\_ Most people, like MOTD,
are laboring under the
impression that those
jobs pay less.
\_ you think that
"most people" are
incapable of
reading job
postings which list
job descriptions and
salary ranges? -tom
\_ Contract law only applies to private
sector employees?