I feel like Dekeyser has been set up on a silver platter for the Wings, they just need to move in and make it happen. They've got every possible advantage over the other 29 offers this kid is gonna get...hometown, WMU, friend's with Nill's kid, loves the Red Wings...GET ER DONE KENNY!

I feel like Dekeyser has been set up on a silver platter for the Wings, they just need to move in and make it happen. They've got every possible advantage over the other 29 offers this kid is gonna get...hometown, WMU, friend's with Nill's kid, loves the Red Wings...GET ER DONE KENNY!

Yes indeedy. The downside, of course, is...he's been set up on a silver platter for the Wings. So: if Holland fumbles this, the fans cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. And all that.

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard

Yes indeedy. The downside, of course, is...he's been set up on a silver platter for the Wings. So: if Holland fumbles this, the fans cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. And all that.

If there's no difference on the money, how exactly can Kenny "fumble" this? Some people want to be near home and family. Some young people want to get as far away as possible. Perhaps he'd feel more pressure to play with the Wings? If the Wings get him, fine. If not, no big deal. I think most people here really don't know that much about him, they just want to "win" the DeKeyser sweepstakes.

Yes indeedy. The downside, of course, is...he's been set up on a silver platter for the Wings. So: if Holland fumbles this, the fans cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. And all that.

I don't see how Holland can do much more than he already has.

The money is the same. Holland has promised the kid to start in the NHL. Its not like Holland has something he can offer the kid that 15 other clubs aren't offering. His favorite team is the Red Wings so that factors into his favor.

The point is that it isn't on Hollands shoulders at all. He has done his due diligence. If the kid signs elsewhere, that his choice. Not Holland's fault for not being Obi Wan Kenobi. "Sign here Danny (waves his hand)."

If there's no difference on the money, how exactly can Kenny "fumble" this? Some peope want to be near home and family. Some young people want to get as far away as possible. Perhaps he'd feel more pressure to play with the Wings? If the Wings get him, fine. If not, no big deal. I think most people here really don't know that much about him, they just want to "win" the DeKeyser sweepstakes.

I cannot like this enough. People need to stop with the "Holland better get this done or its his fault" mentality. Holland has done everything he can do. Danny has to make up his mind and sign. Holland can't make him sign.

I cannot like this enough. People need to stop with the "Holland better get this done or its his fault" mentality. Holland has done everything he can do. Danny has to make up his mind and sign. Holland can't make him sign.

You mean..it's not just navigating thru the different levels, knowing the shortcuts, being skilled with the joystick, knowing how and when to jailbreak, and clicking the right buttons at the right time?!! I'm sure somebody has already posted a video on youtube on "How to land Dekeyser"; Holland's a moron if he does't look it up.

They're reporting late tomorrow - early friday now. I really thought he was fielding all of his offers yesterday and was surprised to find out that he was fielding more offers today, especially the Wings (not that I think this is bad, i'd rather go later in the lineup than sooner.)

I tend to agree that those who get upset at Holland for failing to make things happen since last summer are off-base, as he did do all he could when in those situations, as I'm sure he's doing now. But it doesn't tell the whole story. What most Holland-bashers screw up on is thinking Holland dropped the ball say last summer with Parise and Suter or if DeKeyser doesn't sign here, then he obviously dropped the ball because it was an easy set up. But it's ultimately irrelevant what he does now with these guys in many ways when it's the team that's been put together over the last 4-5 years that's going to speak more to these players than what Holland says now. If Holland dropped the ball, it's been in not doing more to address player losses in years past, or failing to prepare for the loss of Lidstrom before he was up against a wall and desperate.

After all, does anyone really think this would be a question for DeKeyser if the team looked more competitive on a consistent basis? If Holland had done a better job since our last Cup win at helping this team evolve, he likely wouldn't have to do much selling at all to someone like DeKeyser.

But in any event, what happened happened, and while I haven't been a fan of many of the decisions for some time now, I can at least say that Holland is trying to do what he can since last summer to address issues. There's nothing more he can really do now, and presently, given the situation, you can't say he's not trying and doing the best he can. But he is stuck playing catchup you could say, and for that it is in many ways his own fault.

A team with Hossa instead of Franzen and a legitimate number one defensemen replacement installed before Lidstrom retired instead of some of our tradable assets over the last few years is going to be a more attractive team to anyone he's trying to sign today. He got sentimental when things were still good and we weren't feeling the full heat of the cap, and the team that emerged out of that was not the team that he could use as leverage to get guys to really want to sign here, let alone for less than market value anymore. You could say that it's just the effects of parity brought on by the cap, and that's absolutely right on many levels. But if Holland was as good of a GM in the cap era as some thought he was prior to the cap, he would've done a better job of maintaining this team's prestige when he had the opportunity 3-4 years ago to do so. That's when he truly dropped the ball; back when things were good and people weren't paying enough attention.

And yes, I know this team isn't terrible, and it's impressive that we're still in the playoff hunt with the team we have this year. That's all fine and dandy, though make no mistake, it really does help that we still have Dats and Z hanging around. But that's also the tragedy, as we still have Pavs and Z, which almost by default make this team competitive every night. And if a few more pieces were in place that could've been in place, this team wouldn't consistently still be a team that could make the playoffs, but a team that could legitimately challenge for the Cup every year. I know you don't win every year, but while you have the benefit of having Dats and Z on your team, it'd be nice to think a little more than, "we have a good chance of making the playoffs," and Hossa, a Lidstrom successor at least in title of legitimate number one defenseman, less old scraps and more youth would've been a big step in that direction. And if we had those things, we might've had a better opportunity of landing solid veteran help willing to play for less to win a Cup.

Or a better opportunity of signing a much sought-after free-agent defenseman with potential to contribute right away.

But we don't have that same leverage anymore. That didn't happen last summer, and it didn't happen while Holland was chatting with DeKeyser. That happened because over the last four years, when it was clear to anyone willing to admit it that some of our guys wouldn't play forever, and some of our newer guys weren't so proven, when the team needed to be truly evolving, nothing was done.

Just curious, but what #1 defenseman was available that the Wings had a legitimate chance of getting over the past two or 3 seasons, that would fit within the salary cap, that wouldn't cost the Wings a fortune, that wouldn't cost the Wings a major piece of the present team, or the future? He made a legitimate offer to Suter and he declined to play at home. Seriously, you think someone offered the Wings a deal for a top 5 defenseman for Cleary and White and Holland went, hmmm, nope, I think Lidstrom is going to play forever. And he was supposed to do this while signing Hossa, stocking the farm with good young players, staying within the salary cap and being in the SCF every year? So which other teams have done this in any sport?

You mean..it's not just navigating thru the different levels, knowing the shortcuts, being skilled with the joystick, knowing how and when to jailbreak, and clicking the right buttons at the right time?!! I'm sure somebody has already posted a video on youtube on "How to land Dekeyser"; Holland's a moron if he does't look it up.

Not to derail the thread, but using the "XBox analogy" on a sports forum is akin to yelling "RACISM" in every political debate. It's tired and overused. Same with those who accuse others of living in "mom's basement." Let's toss these lame insults. We can do better!

I tend to agree that those who get upset at Holland for failing to make things happen since last summer are off-base, as he did do all he could when in those situations, as I'm sure he's doing now. But it doesn't tell the whole story. What most Holland-bashers screw up on is thinking Holland dropped the ball say last summer with Parise and Suter or if DeKeyser doesn't sign here, then he obviously dropped the ball because it was an easy set up. But it's ultimately irrelevant what he does now with these guys in many ways when it's the team that's been put together over the last 4-5 years that's going to speak more to these players than what Holland says now. If Holland dropped the ball, it's been in not doing more to address player losses in years past, or failing to prepare for the loss of Lidstrom before he was up against a wall and desperate.

After all, does anyone really think this would be a question for DeKeyser if the team looked more competitive on a consistent basis? If Holland had done a better job since our last Cup win at helping this team evolve, he likely wouldn't have to do much selling at all to someone like DeKeyser.

But in any event, what happened happened, and while I haven't been a fan of many of the decisions for some time now, I can at least say that Holland is trying to do what he can since last summer to address issues. There's nothing more he can really do now, and presently, given the situation, you can't say he's not trying and doing the best he can. But he is stuck playing catchup you could say, and for that it is in many ways his own fault.

A team with Hossa instead of Franzen and a legitimate number one defensemen replacement installed before Lidstrom retired instead of some of our tradable assets over the last few years is going to be a more attractive team to anyone he's trying to sign today. He got sentimental when things were still good and we weren't feeling the full heat of the cap, and the team that emerged out of that was not the team that he could use as leverage to get guys to really want to sign here, let alone for less than market value anymore. You could say that it's just the effects of parity brought on by the cap, and that's absolutely right on many levels. But if Holland was as good of a GM in the cap era as some thought he was prior to the cap, he would've done a better job of maintaining this team's prestige when he had the opportunity 3-4 years ago to do so. That's when he truly dropped the ball; back when things were good and people weren't paying enough attention.

And yes, I know this team isn't terrible, and it's impressive that we're still in the playoff hunt with the team we have this year. That's all fine and dandy, though make no mistake, it really does help that we still have Dats and Z hanging around. But that's also the tragedy, as we still have Pavs and Z, which almost by default make this team competitive every night. And if a few more pieces were in place that could've been in place, this team wouldn't consistently still be a team that could make the playoffs, but a team that could legitimately challenge for the Cup every year. I know you don't win every year, but while you have the benefit of having Dats and Z on your team, it'd be nice to think a little more than, "we have a good chance of making the playoffs," and Hossa, a Lidstrom successor at least in title of legitimate number one defenseman, less old scraps and more youth would've been a big step in that direction. And if we had those things, we might've had a better opportunity of landing solid veteran help willing to play for less to win a Cup.

Or a better opportunity of signing a much sought-after free-agent defenseman with potential to contribute right away.

But we don't have that same leverage anymore. That didn't happen last summer, and it didn't happen while Holland was chatting with DeKeyser. That happened because over the last four years, when it was clear to anyone willing to admit it that some of our guys wouldn't play forever, and some of our newer guys weren't so proven, when the team needed to be truly evolving, nothing was done.

I have to admit, this was a damn good post. I really cannot say you were incorrect in any of your assessments.

We really cannot say that Holland is a great post cap GM just as we can't say Yzerman is the same in Tampa Bay. The truly good GMs of the cap era are the ones that make the playoffs every year IMHO. Thats really all you can ask for. You cannot predict how a team will gel. You cannot predict chemistry. The days of the dynasty are over in the NHL. The new dynasty is making the playoffs, which the Wings have done for 20+ straight seasons, which is a record.