British_Pharaoh wrote: People like you and me have the potential to be murderers on a large scale.

Yes. Yes we do.

FWIW, my working theory is that big brother was radicalized...by Internet video or more directly...and then persuaded little brother to join him in the cause. Either that...or my head is up my ass, and it's something entirely fucking different.

Pretty sure it's one or the other.

My guess is we'll never know for sure, because i think it's unlikely that this kid ends up coming in alive, but I think your first theory is the most likely we have to work with right now. At least until some new information comes along it fits with what we know so far.

Doesn't mean your head's not up your ass. Those are completely separate issues.

OK...fair point

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

If there's blood then it's likely he was injured either in the bomb blast (shrapnel) or the shootout in the morning. If that's the case then he must have lost a lot of blood and his wounds will likely be infected. They need to get to him quickly before he either dies of his wounds or kills himself.

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

An FBI official has confirmed that the bureau interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev, one of two suspected Boston Marathon bombers, in 2011 at the request of a foreign government that suspected he had ties to a terrorist organization. The interview was conducted by the FBI in Boston, said the official. The investigation found “no derogatory information” and the case was closed, according to the official, who refused to identify the country or the terrorist organization.

Rachel Weiner, Washington Post

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:How the hell did he survive with that wound for 20 freaking hours? Plus the one in the leg.....

I dunno. Maybe he only incurred one of them prior to getting in the boat? That's what I was saying: wouldn't surprise me if the neck wound was inflicted while he was in the boat by a sniper. Hard to believe he swallowed blood for 20 hours.

Two profiles of the brothers...one from the Boston Globe...the other from the New yorker's David Remnick (both decidedly liberal outlets, BTW), and both deal with the increasing Islamic radicalization of the elder brother, and speculate that the more easy-going, less alienated younger brother was brought along by the older one.

If this was the act of some terrorist "group", then we've done some serious damage to them in the last 12 years.

Glad he's alive, hopefully they'll get him to spill.

yes we have done serious damage to al Qaeda in the last 12 years...

...and haven't we seen enough attacks by lone wolf Islamist jihadists acting independently of any organized group to finally understand that no such formal affiliation is needed for these people to commit mass murder in service of this ideology?

Thoughts on this topic from Victor Davis Hanson, (including links to other things he has written on it over the last decade)

danwismar wrote:Two profiles of the brothers...one from the Boston Globe...the other from the New yorker's David Remnick (both decidedly liberal outlets, BTW), and both deal with the increasing Islamic radicalization of the elder brother, and speculate that the more easy-going, less alienated younger brother was brought along by the older one.

The wild, baseless speculation from the media, politicians who should know better, and the general public in this case is as predictable as it is pathetic. People flying off half-cocked who take 5% of a story and invent the other 95% and believe that their story is either fact or probably true. Unreal.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

danwismar wrote:...and haven't we seen enough attacks by lone wolf Islamist jihadists acting independently of any organized group to finally understand that no such formal affiliation is needed for these people to commit mass murder in service of this ideology?

Yep, same as we see lone wolf Christian nutjobs.

Lone wolf [insert religion here] wackos don't bother me a bit. They've always been around and they always will be. Like worrying about getting hit by a meteor.

Organized militant groups with clearly laid out plans of attack, on the other hand...

I still feel this was likely the work of lone wolf idealist loons. If this was planned by a terrorist group, they're a pretty sloppy bunch.

If these guys did it for Islam or Apartheid or the Church of Scientology or Jews For Jesus or Hari Krishna or the Sierra Club, don't matter to me... if they did it on their own volition for their own reasons, then that's all I need to know.

Love the Mencken quote CDT, but the entire premise of your Wolfpac link is a distortion of the issue of Citizens United. I'm amazed by how many people think CU made it legal for corporations to donate to political campaigns. It was illegal before CU, and it remains illegal today. To suggest otherwise is to distort reality, and that's what WolfPac is doing. For another thread obviously.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:lol. Even the title is wrong "FBI Looking for 12 Islamic Sleeper Cells Linked to Boston Bombers".

They were looking for 12 people comprising one cell, not 12 cells.

Not to nit pick but I don't think that is what their title meant at all.

Either way, it appears obvious that our boys in the know are way beyond this being a couple of dudes getting lucky with such a stunt. It doesn't change anything for the victims, our country or the fact that this stuff will happen most likely at some point regardless of all our efforts.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:lol. Even the title is wrong "FBI Looking for 12 Islamic Sleeper Cells Linked to Boston Bombers".

They were looking for 12 people comprising one cell, not 12 cells.

Not to nit pick but I don't think that is what their title meant at all.

Either way, it appears obvious that our boys in the know are way beyond this being a couple of dudes getting lucky with such a stunt. It doesn't change anything for the victims, our country or the fact that this stuff will happen most likely at some point regardless of all our efforts.

FTR. I never said he was a "lone wolf", or a connected Jihadist at any point. The main reason is I don't fucking know the answer.

They changed the name of the title to "FBI Looking for 12-Strong Islamic Sleeper Cell Linked to Boston Bombers". They added "-Strong", because they knew the last one was misleading.

Really? That McVey believed a "tyrannical government is fucking up the country" doesn't stand out and isn't memorable? That for McVey it was, in large part, retribution for the Waco siege and Ruby Ridge that he thought were examples of that tyranny?

OK.

I guess the fact you have no recollection of that makes the rest of the thread a little more understandable for me.

But the fact you have no recollection doesn't mean the rest of us don't know or understand or remember the ideological impetus behind it.

McVeigh and Nichols were driven primarily by extreme anti-government views and white supremacist ideology. The first being the biggest motivator. I think some of my fellow lefties (including me in the past) have tried to paint them as "Christian terrorists", but I no longer think that's really true. They were Christians, they both had a minor affiliation with Christian Identity, but that wasn't what motivated them to commit acts of violence.

The Turner Diaries played a huge part in their beliefs. That book is probably the biggest recruitment tool for homegrown terrorist since Birth Of A Nation sparked the epic Klan revival.