What I want/expect:
- Blood Fear, PoM RoF, Blinding Light, Shockwave, FoJ, Cyclone and Psyfiend all on higher cooldowns, non-instant or higher costs (e.g. more Mana for Psyfiend, Blood Fear only usable after taking certain amount of damage, Blinding Light and Cyclone removed, Shockwave on a one minute cooldown and FoJ removed, with Dragon Roar or Bladestorm buffed. Maybe some more CC's I forgot to mention that could be altered, but not experienced enough with Spriest, Lock, Monk or Hunter to really comment on these.
- Druids mobility nerfed slightly, ridiculously OP for PVP Flag Carriers, and all other Tanks buffed so they are being used in Rated/ Random BGs.
- Ret heals and damage buffed slightly, some sort of surivivability
- Warrior cooldown stacking worked on. Warrior pops cooldowns and shit dies unless they can escape from endless CCs. Should've been done from the start.
- Disc Priests slightly stronger.
- Hunter Nerfs (Mainly BM)
- Rogues becoming OP. Seriously. They are not in as bad a state as people make out IMO, just fairly boring to play and very very bad talents apart from one tier. I'm expecting some possible rotation changes for either Sub or Combat, along with a few talent changes in 5.2, which, with better gear that Rogues will scale well off, will leave them in an extremely powerful spot as Blizzard tries to get people playing Rogues again. This all speculation, but either something like this will happen, or they will be neglected the entirety of the Expansion

Even Vanguards is using his Enhancement Shaman more than his Ret... that is extremely telling.

EDIT: After a second read of that, you're probably a Rogue or got killed by a Ret that was just a better player and/or a team with Ret on it. Your post is glistening with disdain.

I don't play a rogue, actually, and I don't have issues with rets 1on1, not that 1on1 matters since 3v3 is my thing. Nice theory though, how mad are you right now? A blue post has already stated that paladin CC will be changed in 5.2. I'm sorry if that offends you.

I don't play a rogue, actually, and I don't have issues with rets 1on1, not that 1on1 matters since 3v3 is my thing. Nice theory though, how mad are you right now? A blue post has already stated that paladin CC will be changed in 5.2. I'm sorry if that offends you.

a warrior then? got kited around like a ninny by a ret?

the ignorance of the current state of pvp displayed in your post was pretty glaring.

Damage wise, Beast Mastery Hunters need a hard nerf. I can kill someone in seconds even without stampede, as long as Bestial Wrath is available. They need to move damage away from the pet and to the Hunter a bit more. I feel that even non-Beast Mastery pets do a bit too much damage.

Warriors still need a damage nerf. This can be in the form of disallowing cooldown stacking. No Avatar/Recklessness at the same time, etc. Shockwave damage needs to be lowered or removed, or the cooldown increased to 30-35 seconds.

Frost Death Knight burst needs to be toned down a bit too. Killing Machine is way too good in PvP.

Feral burst is probably worse than Warriors right now, and that's saying a lot. They have insane mobility, which is fine, but not fine when coupled with the damage they deal. Also, there should be no instant Cyclones, aside from Nature's Swiftness.

Windwalker Monks need a few survivability buffs, outside of defensive cooldowns, they seem to take more damage than any other class. I fear that if their damage is buffed, we'll have problems.

Retribution Paladins need a slight reduction in burst and a slight reduction to the damage that Guardian of Ancient Kings can produce. Also, something needs to change with Inquisition, it's boring and feels bad.

Shadow Priests, I don't know enough about them to say what exactly needs what.

Balance Druids have way too much crowd control. Roots, AoE silence, Vortex, Cyclone, Mighty Bash (stun) and when certain ones are used in conjunction with the other, the results are just way way way too strong.

Holy Paladins have too much damned crowd control as well. Especially considering the rather low CD on them.

Damage wise, Beast Mastery Hunters need a hard nerf. I can kill someone in seconds even without stampede, as long as Bestial Wrath is available. They need to move damage away from the pet and to the Hunter a bit more. I feel that even non-Beast Mastery pets do a bit too much damage.

Warriors still need a damage nerf. This can be in the form of disallowing cooldown stacking. No Avatar/Recklessness at the same time, etc. Shockwave damage needs to be lowered or removed, or the cooldown increased to 30-35 seconds.

Frost Death Knight burst needs to be toned down a bit too. Killing Machine is way too good in PvP.

Feral burst is probably worse than Warriors right now, and that's saying a lot. They have insane mobility, which is fine, but not fine when coupled with the damage they deal. Also, there should be no instant Cyclones, aside from Nature's Swiftness.

Windwalker Monks need a few survivability buffs, outside of defensive cooldowns, they seem to take more damage than any other class. I fear that if their damage is buffed, we'll have problems.

Retribution Paladins need a slight reduction in burst and a slight reduction to the damage that Guardian of Ancient Kings can produce. Also, something needs to change with Inquisition, it's boring and feels bad.

Shadow Priests, I don't know enough about them to say what exactly needs what.

Balance Druids have way too much crowd control. Roots, AoE silence, Vortex, Cyclone, Ursoc's Might (stun) and when certain ones are used in conjunction with the other, the results are just way way way too strong.

Holy Paladins have too much damned crowd control as well. Especially considering the rather low CD on them.

Crowd control as a whole needs a stiff reduction, as we all know.

I agree with most of your post except Ret Pally analysis. Ret burst is fine and is a lil weak compared to other classes. Sustained damage is a joke compared to frost dk, warriors, rogues and mages. Sustained damage needs a buff.
I can pop my macro on my boomkin and crank out 150k dps with ease but can only manage 75k burst on pally.

If I had to take a stab in the dark My guess would be:
-Shockwave now has a 0.5 second cast. Can be cast while moving and not interruptible via magic interrupts.
-glyph of purge also increases the cost of purge by 10 or 20%
-Blood Fear turns into the normal cast time fear with no cool down, but is either counts as a different class school from the warlock abilities or can be cast while moving.
-Skull banner changed to: Party/raid members critical strikes put a bleed on the target for 20% of the damage done over 6 seconds
-Displacer beast no longer activates prowl while in combat.
-Cyclone removed from Predatory Swiftness.
And my biggest Hope of change(this probably will not happen but I can hope): diminishing returns now makes you immune to the cc type after 2 instead of 4. (first hit full duration, 2nd half, 3rd immune) DR timer not changed.

Looks like I was right then. You just got spanked by a team with a Ret on it and you're crying. Take your unjustified whining elsewhere. Just because they beat you, doesn't mean Ret is good.

Yeah okay if you say so pal. I don't have any problems with ret in any form of pvp. The game needs changes to all forms of CC across all classes, and I never suggested that this happen only to ret paladins. I don't know what your issue is, I don't care about rets and don't have problems with with them ever, and my team is currently at 2298, haven't played mush since hotfixes - I play a mage, spriest, and warlock. Yeah go ahead and talk smack about mages bla bla bla whatever. I've played at a pretty high level since TBC.

Lets review.

I don't care about ret paladins.
I don't have issues with ret paladins, ever
What I did say is that the game needs sweeping changes to all instant CC, including paladins, including mages (which I play) including spriests (which I play) and including blood fear with warlocks (which I also play). I never intended to single ret paladins out, maybe you're seeing what you want to see.

What I'm saying is that CC in this game has reached retarded levels and DR's need to be closely investigated. All classes. ALL CLASSES.

Notable offenders include:

Blood fear
POM (needs a longer CD)
Psyfiend
Shockwave (needs a longer CD)
Dis roar from druids
Cyclone
Vortex
Solar beam on top of vortex
Solar beam radius (TOO LARGE)
Solar beam/gorefiends grasp/vortex stacking and globalling of entire teams in RBGs (see bailamost VODs for examples of this)
Paladin CC chain (i'm thinking of holy paladins here, but if it affects ret so be it - you can be balanced in other ways)

Note that paladin CC is being changed in 5.2. No matter how much you get mad at me, it's going to change. And like I mentioned, i'm not trying to single your class out. The game needs sweeping changes for all classes and specs. That's including the ones that *I* play.

Yeah okay if you say so pal. I don't have any problems with ret in any form of pvp. The game needs changes to all forms of CC across all classes, and I never suggested that this happen only to ret paladins. I don't know what your issue is, I don't care about rets and don't have problems with with them ever, and my team is currently at 2298, haven't played mush since hotfixes - I play a mage, spriest, and warlock. Yeah go ahead and talk smack about mages bla bla bla whatever. I've played at a pretty high level since TBC.

Lets review.

I don't care about ret paladins.
I don't have issues with ret paladins, ever
What I did say is that the game needs sweeping changes to all instant CC, including paladins, including mages (which I play) including spriests (which I play) and including blood fear with warlocks (which I also play). I never intended to single ret paladins out, maybe you're seeing what you want to see.

What I'm saying is that CC in this game has reached retarded levels and DR's need to be closely investigated. All classes. ALL CLASSES.

Notable offenders include:

Blood fear
POM (needs a longer CD)
Psyfiend
Shockwave (needs a longer CD)
Dis roar from druids
Cyclone
Vortex
Solar beam on top of vortex
Solar beam radius (TOO LARGE)
Solar beam/gorefiends grasp/vortex stacking and globalling of entire teams in RBGs (see bailamost VODs for examples of this)
Paladin CC chain (i'm thinking of holy paladins here, but if it affects ret so be it - you can be balanced in other ways)

Note that paladin CC is being changed in 5.2. No matter how much you get mad at me, it's going to change. And like I mentioned, i'm not trying to single your class out. The game needs sweeping changes for all classes and specs. That's including the ones that *I* play.

Don't take it too personal, a lot of those players responding to your comments get butthurt when you might suggest that any of their abilities get nerfed. They lack the ability to see that PVP needs some major changes across the boards... ones that would affect all classes most likely.

Ret burst removed. Ret survivability nerfed, sustained damage nerfed, off-healing burst increased so they can be further nerfed in hotfixes after patch.

Other classes are fine. In fact I think mages, particularly frost, will need buffing again, they took a couple of nerfs this patch, first time since wotlk so now its time to buff them in a few other areas.

Note that paladin CC is being changed in 5.2. No matter how much you get mad at me, it's going to change. And like I mentioned, i'm not trying to single your class out. The game needs sweeping changes for all classes and specs. That's including the ones that *I* play.

for some one who doesn't care about ret paladins you sure picked a very specific spec to use as your example.
if blinding light needs a cast time, then so does intimidating shout, howl of terror, psychic scream. all of which have shorter cds, and are more resistant to damage then blinding light.

holy paladins don't actually have any more capacity for instant cc then rets do and rets have pretty much the same capacity they did in cata and wolk. i guess they have lots of instant cc in that game where cleaves are the absolute best comps right now.

Originally Posted by Shaderas

Don't take it too personal, a lot of those players responding to your comments get butthurt when you might suggest that any of their abilities get nerfed. They lack the ability to see that PVP needs some major changes across the boards... ones that would affect all classes most likely.

rets has had plenty of nerfs, and more on the horizon. i'm not sure how making specific examples of one of the weaker melee specs and more average healers would benefit pvp in general.

displacer beast and disquieting roar need to be looked at. both need much longer cds and or shouldn't be usable while silenced.

Displacer Beast can't be used if you have Faerie Fire on you, and if you have ANY dots on you, it breaks stealth immediately.
Disorienting Roar only lasts for 3 seconds, and it breaks after taking damage. Ret paladin have the same thing, only it lasts twice as long.