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...and when reality bites, watch the main players in this debacle skulk away, where only a year before they were hailed as heroes..

We go from an amicable Brexit, to 100% severing of all ties, and if its not this, it a betrayal, Brexit..

Bit hyperbolic there Dave.

The folk who will carry this forward will, I'm sure, approach the long term negotiations recognising mutual self interest. I realise that, to date, we've won the Nobel prize for incompetence but there's no need to carry on regardless in that same vein.

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As far as the UK is concerned all the misled; lies; didn't know what they were voting for is BS. British Social Attitudes have been polling on attitudes to the EU since 1992. Since 1996 more than 50% have either been in favour of leaving the EU or only staying if it is reformed substantially (which it won't be).

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The folk who will carry this forward will, I'm sure, approach the long term negotiations recognising mutual self interest. I realise that, to date, we've won the Nobel prize for incompetence but there's no need to carry on regardless in that same vein.

Of course we'll be in a position of strength when we WTO... they'll be banging on our door.....Fekin dreamer.

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The folk who will carry this forward will, I'm sure, approach the long term negotiations recognising mutual self interest. I realise that, to date, we've won the Nobel prize for incompetence but there's no need to carry on regardless in that same vein.

I don't know if it is... Farage seems to give very easy answers to questions that are / will be difficult to resolve. Its very disappointing that people get sucked into his rhetoric, and people may need to have an education on what a no deal, in reality, means, for the UK to snap out of this fever.

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Hungary’s nationalist prime minister, Viktor Orbán, who has targeted immigrants in his speeches and has run an antisemitic campaign in which his former mentor George Soros has been depicted as a hate figure, is pushing his vision of illiberal democracy.

These are the divides that are appearing. This is where all this is headed - is this the future you dream about for your children?

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I don't know if it is... Farage seems to give very easy answers to questions that are / will be difficult to resolve. Its very disappointing that people get sucked into his rhetoric, and people may need to have an education on what a no deal, in reality, means, for the UK to snap out of this fever.

I can't see Farage as being more than an irritant in all honesty; a demogogue who will fade. I think the reins will still be in the hands of more mainstream politicians and civil servants who'll adopt a less confrontational, more realistic approach to the long term settlement.

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I can't see Farage as being more than an irritant in all honesty; a demogogue who will fade. I think the reins will still be in the hands of more mainstream politicians and civil servants who'll adopt a less confrontational, more realistic approach to the long term settlement.

The last two years should have taught you that mainstream politicians and civil servants adopting a realistic approach feeds nationalist radicalisation.

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Hungary’s nationalist prime minister, Viktor Orbán, who has targeted immigrants in his speeches and has run an antisemitic campaign in which his former mentor George Soros has been depicted as a hate figure, is pushing his vision of illiberal democracy.

These are the divides that are appearing. This is where all this is headed - is this the future you dream about for your children?

I dream that my children will be able to afford a house, get my grand kids into good schools, and see a doctor when they need to.

I’m not really that interested in Hungarian politics; as long as they stick to the ECHR, UN, and NATO obligations.

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Hungary’s nationalist prime minister, Viktor Orbán, who has targeted immigrants in his speeches and has run an antisemitic campaign in which his former mentor George Soros has been depicted as a hate figure, is pushing his vision of illiberal democracy.

These are the divides that are appearing. This is where all this is headed - is this the future you dream about for your children?

Why do you think people like Orban get traction? Personality? Yes. But there are more substantial issues.

An extract from a New Yorker article:

"Fidesz and other right-wing parties in the E.U. contend that unelected bureaucrats are making consequential decisions—regulating markets, inflicting rules on technology and economic development, setting quotas of refugee resettlements—without the participation of European citizens; increasingly, voters agree."

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Why do you think people like Orban get traction? Personality? Yes. But there are more substantial issues.

An extract from a New Yorker article:

"Fidesz and other right-wing parties in the E.U. contend that unelected bureaucrats are making consequential decisions—regulating markets, inflicting rules on technology and economic development, setting quotas of refugee resettlements—without the participation of European citizens; increasingly, voters agree."

They may contend that, but is it accurate, and do they draw correct conclusions?

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It's a very familiar perspective but the monetarist aspects of it are hopelessly misguided. Obviously, there's some merit in owning gold as an asset class but gold as money just doesn't work. Comparing Venezuela to Cuba is also a mistake; most of the Venezuelan economy is in private hands and always has been. The oil industry was nationalised decades before Chavez arrived, about the same time that OPEC came into existence iirc. Endemic corruption is responsible for Venezuela's plight not socialism. Bolivarianismo is what it's called locally; the cult of the Latin American strong man/dictator.

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It's a very familiar perspective but the monetarist aspects of it are hopelessly misguided. Obviously, there's some merit in owning gold as an asset class but gold as money just doesn't work. Comparing Venezuela to Cuba is also a mistake; most of the Venezuelan economy is in private hands and always has been. The oil industry was nationalised decades before Chavez arrived, about the same time that OPEC came into existence iirc. Endemic corruption is responsible for Venezuela's plight not socialism. Bolivarianismo is what it's called locally; the cult of the Latin American strong man/dictator.

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Why do you think people like Orban get traction? Personality? Yes. But there are more substantial issues.

An extract from a New Yorker article:

"Fidesz and other right-wing parties in the E.U. contend that unelected bureaucrats are making consequential decisions—regulating markets, inflicting rules on technology and economic development, setting quotas of refugee resettlements—without the participation of European citizens; increasingly, voters agree."

Interesting.... the UK nor the EU are direct democracies. We shove most decisions further up the chain where compex issues are dealt with by supposedly 'competent' representatives, that take into account the interests of the countries they represent.

Isn't this the same carp that Farage keeps banging on about. It's those nasty EUropeans who are taking our sovereignty away from us (no mention of joint responsibility for common purpose....oh no!). It's just a variation of blame 'the other'. Fit's very well into Orbans 'illiberal democracy' agenda where he distracts you with the nasty EU meme whilst he takes away your liberties with the other hand.... until you have none left that is.