Author
Topic: Weird DC-8 problem... (Read 1129 times)

Croatian Airliners

I am operating a DC-8-53 on a route KOAK-KLGA. A plane can fly up to 4410 NM, and the route is 2226 NM. However, when flying KOAK-KLGA everything is normal, but on a KLGA-KOAK it is limited to 7 pax!!! Why?!? I have big losses because of that...

7000 foot runway for a plane that needs 10,000 feet to operate fully loaded will be the source of your problem.

The problem is, that you will not have enough RWY to LAND the plane. You will need less runway for the T/O, as the plane is not fully loaded, however especially the DC-8 and 707 always need a lot of runway to land, no matter how loaded they are.

I'm not sure of the -53, but at least earlier models did not have thrust reversers, nor have spoilers, thus needed a lot of runway to come to a hold.

The problem is, that you will not have enough RWY to LAND the plane. You will need less runway for the T/O, as the plane is not fully loaded, however especially the DC-8 and 707 always need a lot of runway to land, no matter how loaded they are.

I'm not sure of the -53, but at least earlier models did not have thrust reversers, nor have spoilers, thus needed a lot of runway to come to a hold.

cheers,Jona L.

Got those mixed up Jona. The aircraft needs more runway for the T/O because IT IS fully loaded. It hasn't burnt any fuel yet due to not flying yet... The problem in this situation is the lack of runway TODA (Take off distance available).

The problem is, that you will not have enough RWY to LAND the plane. You will need less runway for the T/O, as the plane is not fully loaded, however especially the DC-8 and 707 always need a lot of runway to land, no matter how loaded they are.

I'm not sure of the -53, but at least earlier models did not have thrust reversers, nor have spoilers, thus needed a lot of runway to come to a hold.

cheers,Jona L.

You are right that IRL the 707's and DC-8's needed a lot of real estate to land for the reasons you mentioned, but in this AWS case the flight is able to operate fully loaded from OAK-LGA but is limited to 7 passengers from LGA-OAK, so the short 7,000 foot runway is limiting the MTOW and therefore the useful payload on departure.

Got those mixed up Jona. The aircraft needs more runway for the T/O because IT IS fully loaded. It hasn't burnt any fuel yet due to not flying yet... The problem in this situation is the lack of runway TODA (Take off distance available).

Jordan

DC-8/707 are a bit different then modern jets, Jordan at least the DC-8-10/20 and the 707-120/220 needed nearly the same distance to land as they needed for T/O at MTOW, while nowadays most jets need less than 50% of T/O rwy to land...

You are right that IRL the 707's and DC-8's needed a lot of real estate to land for the reasons you mentioned, but in this AWS case the flight is able to operate fully loaded from OAK-LGA but is limited to 7 passengers from LGA-OAK, so the short 7,000 foot runway is limiting the MTOW and therefore the useful payload on departure.

Damn, just saw I switched the routes, thought the OAK-LGA was limited...

Anyways, LGA is not useful for any long routes, due to its runway.In reality KLGA is limited to max. 1500NM routes due to legal requirements.

To fly LH from LGA you need very specific equipment: the B720B, B707-320B Adv., or B707-320C.They are designed for better runway performance (especially B720B).They are gas guzzlers. But then so is the DC-8 that you are using.

if you want to use DC-8, go for -62. It is the best DC-8 variant for short runways. Some 707s tend to do better on short runways than DC-8s though. On the other hand, you can use more modern planes for LH in DoTM. 757s if you want to p*** people off or 767s if you need real range. 3-engine LH planes such as DC-10s or L-1011s will do good, too.

if you want to use DC-8, go for -62. It is the best DC-8 variant for short runways. Some 707s tend to do better on short runways than DC-8s though. On the other hand, you can use more modern planes for LH in DoTM. 757s if you want to p*** people off or 767s if you need real range. 3-engine LH planes such as DC-10s or L-1011s will do good, too.

757's are good for p***ing people off due to their decent range of about 4000nm. Which means you can run those suckers from the East Coast of the U.S. to many destinations in Europe, and run more frequency than the 747/767/777, etc.