Posted
by
timothyon Saturday December 29, 2012 @07:33PM
from the well-of-course-he-was-duh dept.

theodp writes "Rudy Giuliani had John Gotti to worry about; Mike Bloomberg has Steve Jobs. Despite all-time lows for the city in homicides and shootings, NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg said overall crime in New York City was up 3.3% in 2012 due to iPhone, iPad and other Apple device thefts, which have increased by 3,890 this year. 'If you just took away the jump in Apple, we'd be down for the year,' explained Marc La Vorgna, the mayor's press secretary. 'The proliferation of people carrying expensive devices around is so great,' La Vorgna added. 'It's something that's never had to be dealt with before.' Bloomberg also took to the radio, urging New Yorkers who didn't want to become a crime statistic to keep their iDevices in an interior, hard-to-reach pocket: 'Put it in a pocket in sort of a more body-fitting, tighter clothes, that you can feel if it was — if somebody put their hand in your pocket, not just an outside coat pocket.' But it seems the best way to fight the iCrime Wave might be to slash the $699 price of an iPhone (unactivated), which costs an estimated $207 to make. The U.S. phone subsidy model reportedly adds $400+ to the price of an iPhone. So, is offering unlocked alternatives at much more reasonable prices than an iPhone — like the $299 Nexus 4, for starters — the real key to taking a bite out of cellphone crime? After all, didn't dramatic price cuts pretty much kill car stereo theft?"

It's not the *cost* of the iPhone. It's the *black market resale value* that drives theft.

It's uncomfortable allowing a third party to be able to permanently brick your phone or other device, but if that were a commonly-used option, the resale value would quickly drop down close to zero.

As always - back up your data, and don't store important personal information on your easily-stolen device...

The cost of the iPhone is what drives the black market price up to begin with. If the price from a retailer wasn't so high the amount of money paid for stolen phones wouldn't be nearly as high either (except during shortages) and the incentive to steal them would go down as well.

The cost of the iPhone is what drives the black market price up to begin with. If the price from a retailer wasn't so high the amount of money paid for stolen phones wouldn't be nearly as high either (except during shortages) and the incentive to steal them would go down as well.

Does that imply the $699 unlocked price of the Samsung SIII isn't a high amount since thieves mostly target the iPhone?

Does that imply the $699 unlocked price of the Samsung SIII isn't a high amount since thieves mostly target the iPhone?

I hope not. The variable being ignored is brand recognition. You're going to have an easier time and probably ultimately make more money off of selling Toyota Corollas on the black market than you are PT Cruisers, simply because more people in the area tend to buy Corollas than PT Cruisers. In the US, it's fairly safe to assume that the iPhone has the brand recognition over the SIII, so it's a safer bet to sell iPhones on the black market than SIIIs. That seems to be a shrinking gap between the two, but it

Although one has to wonder how big the market for iPhones really is. It's not the like the vast majority of consumers aren't stuck paying one of the big carriers for a monthly sub anyway, and for them how much cheaper is a stolen iPhone than the carrier price anyway?

But then with phones it's a little easier. The EU has been working on this, stolen phones should be blacklisted from carriers. If you can't resell them, what is the point of stealing them? There is still the overseas market but it eliminates

The thing protecting the S3 is obscurity. Its harder to identify amongst a host of other cheaper products, On the other hand if they steal an apple phone they know the price is high and that theres a resale market for it and its ridiculously easy to identify.

Plus the majority of smartphones in America are iPhones and the majority of tablets are iPads. Even if thieves were blind, and stealing randomly, they'd steal more iDevices than all the other brands added together.

Even if thieves were blind, and stealing randomly, they'd steal more iDevices than all the other brands added together.

Precisely. BTW I'm pretty accustomed to Slashdot's ever-declining state of "quality" over the last several years, but this story takes the cake - it's 1/2 article and 1/2 ludicrous Fandroid rant that somehow the real cause of the problem of increased theft of small, highly valuable electronic devices in NYC is that Apple charges too much for the 64 GB iPhone and that somehow Google's pricing for the 8 GB Nexus 4 is the solution? Are you shitting me? Can you possibly be serious?

Slashdot, who do do you have at the wheel these days approving stories? Is it someone that actually cares, or are they just looking for the biggest flamebait submissions they can find? Through all the ups and downs, Slashdot have been my homepage for more than a decade. Please don't make this latest acquisition the one that drives me away for good.

lashdot, who do do you have at the wheel these days approving stories? Is it someone that actually cares, or are they just looking for the biggest flamebait submissions they can find? Through all the ups and downs, Slashdot have been my homepage for more than a decade. Please don't make this latest acquisition the one that drives me away for good.

If I didn't have the foreknowledge that Slashdot.org is now a corporate subsidiary of Dice Holdings (that shitty job site dice.com), I would say Slashdot.org sold out. That ship has obviously sailed.

I can't even bring myself to use the hack-period symbols to reference it. Because that's actually too nerdy for what Slashdot.org is today. Stories like this bullshit one and banning proliferate posters (seriously, in 2012 who the fuck bans someone that isn't a spammer? Slashdot.org has an entire section named "

Slashdot, who do do you have at the wheel these days approving stories? Is it someone that actually cares, or are they just looking for the biggest flamebait submissions they can find? Through all the ups and downs, Slashdot have been my homepage for more than a decade. Please don't make this latest acquisition the one that drives me away for good.

Please - let's not introduce rational discussion and valid points to this discussion. Based on the title and the summary, I had just about decided that Dead Steve was much more evil that I had ever believed Living Steve to be. Now, here you go, forcing me to backtrack. Alright, Dead Steve isn't any more evil than he was living. Forget Zombie Steve, forget the invasion, forget the Apple crime conspiracy. Crap - Apple bashing threads are so fun to read!

While much of Harlem is white, the crime statistics for the U.S. don't paint a good picture for blacks.

What do you mean by "crime statistics"? Perhaps you mean arrest statistics? Or incarceration statistics? Because such statistics don't necessarily indicate that blacks commit more crimes, only that we tend to arrest them and lock them up more often.

That's really strange. I happen to live in a rather bigoted all-white area. Few blacks live here. Those blacks who live here are mostly found in the city. Yet, our crime rate is consistent with the rest of the state. Our state's statistics are consistent with national averages. We have our horrifying murders, we have rapes, we have child molestation cases, auto thefts, drug labs.

If you and people like you had any idea what you're talking about, then my neighborhood should be virtually crime free, yet

Agreed.Now that the major carriers have all agreed to kill phones that are reported stolen [pcmag.com] (like most European carriers) , the in-country black market value should drop to zero.There is still the export option for stolen phones.

But to a certain extent the price of the phone sets the black market value as well. And that price is just too high.

And further, I have my doubts about the claim at the bottom of the summary:
The U.S. phone subsidy model reportedly adds $400+ to the price of an iPhone.

I think that Apple charges that price not to support subsidies, but rather, because they know they can charge what they want and subsidies will make it affordable for end users. It's like health care or education. If the government makes it so you can get grants or low interest loans, then that means you can make your undergrad programs 25-30K a year, and most people will still be able to pay it. Apple counts on the cell phone companies for spreading the very high cost out so that it doesn't look like it is as much as it is.

Of course, there is certainly a level of symbiosis involved, but I think Apple looked at existing situations with subsidies and saw a pricing scheme that would allow them to break into a market with their high markup items and have it not sting as much for the end user. Apple can not, and to their credit, will not compete in situations where there they will be unable to secure a high unit price for their product. The wireless market was a slam dunk for them, in that regard.

"Markup" (and its relative "gross margin") are defined in terms of selling price versus the cost of sale.

For a producer, the selling price is the wholesale price, for a retailer, it is the retail price. Despite Apple's own retail presence, the vast majority of iPhone sales is through carrier and other retailers, not through Apple Stores.

The cost of sale includes not just the production cost (materials, labor) but also supply chain, unit tariffs and royalties, shipping in, etc.

Anyways, Apple's gross margin over all products has ranged between ~40% to ~47% percent since the rise of the iPhone. This works out to a markup of 66% to 88% across all sales. Now if we assume that iPhones are particularly profitable, with estimated margins of up to 55%, that works out to a markup of ~120%. While not bad, it isn't 200%.

And, it doesn't include R&D, administration, marketing, legal, rent, taxes, etc., which also go against profit.

In fact, for the cost of an unlocked iPhone I could buy an HTC Android phone and a.22 pistol and get a Florida CCW and still have enough money for a whole lot of whiskey to drink at home so I don't have to go out and expose my precious smarty phone to criminals in the first place.

The cause of theft: people carry items worth stealing!
The cause of rape: ?

Please follow the same logic and see how idiotic it is.

Let's take your logic the other way:

The cause of being kidnapped and executed in drug-lord-controlled areas of foreign countries: visiting drug-lord-controlled areas of foreign countries

Well you're right: it's not the cause, but a contributory factor. I would appreciate being told where these drug-lord-controlled (or guerilla-rebel-held) areas are so that I can avoid them. And if I have to pass through them, I would appreciate advice about how not to get kidnapped for ransom.

I'm not so sure that the lack of material wealth necessarily makes you unhappy. What makes people unhappy is either not being able to actually take care of yourself or your family, or it is a belief that you won't be happy without what someone else has.

To be honest, I have two iPhones. One I bought for myself, and one that actually belongs to my work place. They're nice and all, but I could totally see my life without one. In fact, I could have cared less if I even owned a cellphone before my work place

Being poor has little to do with actual lack of money; and is much more to do with mental illness (which has a genetic component), bad upbringing and bad attitudes inherited from family and friends; drug abuse; low expections; and bad culture (e.g. anything "gangsta", and the modern tendancy to strip away people's linguistic and cultural identity and replace it with corporate mass-market shit).

There isn't even an article here. It's just a troll summary with a bunch of unrelated links pimping Android devices. At least if they would have compared the SIII to the iPhone, it would be so blatant. The Nexus 4 has no storage or even LTE... It's right inline with the free phones.

How the hell does he equate "Crime Is Up and Bloomberg Blames iPhone Thieves" to "Bloomberg: Steve Jobs Behind NYC Crime Wave"? That is libelous, since using the "Bloomberg:" prefix implies that it is a Bloomberg quote, which it isn't.

Does not work for gun, since there are other benefit of stealing one (no link to you). However, that works quite well with about everything else. Car, jewellery, tv,... all of those things that are stolen because they are expensive (and the company selling them is making a profit, which somehow in the article logic make it worse)

So using this jumping-the-tracks train of logic, we should make guns free so no criminal will ever want to steal one. BINGO!

No, you just took the facepalm to a new level because criminals steal guns since they can't legally buy them, not because they can't afford them. Fundamentally, the article is right because thieves don't steal for shits and giggles, but because you have valuables and because that value exceeds the risk. Just like every tourist guide will warn you not to wear your expensive jewelry to the slum areas. Where the article goes off the rails is in suggesting that we shouldn't have expensive items in an effort to

>Fundamentally, the article is right because thieves don't steal for shits and giggles

The depends on the thief. I would suggest your premise is mostly correct, the majority of theft is for profit, but large amount is done just so the thief can have the item independent of the items value. Many times thieves are caught and their reasons fall along the lines of 'we thought it would be fun'.

The way this is written is so absurdly biased; if you want to promote Android devices, just come out and say it. Don't use some arbitrary statistic to promote your agenda. That's like blaming the former CEO of Lexus for making a desirable vehicle that is prone to theft as a result of its desirability or popularity.

No, really, it is Steve Job's fault - personally - that since the devices are loved so much by users, the re-sale black market price is high allowing big profits for people who steal them. If ONLY Steve Job made the products lousy, no one would pay for them! and no one would steal them!

Have you actually driven an IS-F? The torque converter is locked up the whole time if you aren't in first gear. They went with a torque converter as it's a large weight saving over a double clutch. There are various reasons I probably wouldn't get an IS-F if I was going to get a Lexus tomorrow, but the torque converter isn't one of them.

Or stop advertising that you have one on you by wearing it like a fashion accessory.

Who "wears" an iPhone or iPad? Usually they are kept in pockets or jackets or backpacks.

The problem is that the whole point of having any kind of phone, much less a smartphone, is that you can receive calls, make calls, or look up things as you wish. If you lock your device away out of fear until you are in a private space then what is the point of having something portable?

Woman in front of me in the bag drop queue at the airport last week and two seats across from me on the plane: iPhone tucked into her bra, but carefully positioned so it protruded above her neckline, so everyone could see it (her boyfriend was pretty nerdy, too - short that was a reference to both Portal and Street fighter, and reading some Halo novel).

My thoughts as well. The victim is rarely the one who should be blamed, but it is often so much easier that people do it anyway.
Same concept... if only those first graders had their own assault rifles...

...Being a lecturing nanny to actually see that the normal functions of a city government are performed.Note his wars on large sodas and restuarant menus, while bedbugs run rampant.He wags his finger at Apple because crooks are loose in his city. And he has his PIs make straw purchases of firearms in far-away states, violating federal law for masterbatory political posturing.Why do New Yorkers elect this clown?

I'm sure we'll see you in all the copyright troll threads talking about how the publishers/MPAA/RIAA have "successfully sued" people who settled prior to any trial. I mean, it's certainly successful by some definitions, but I wouldn't rely on it as actually establishing liability, or anything,

Thieves will steal whatever they can to make some money, especially easy money since people don't keep their phones/tablets locked to themselves. They don't care if its an iPhone or not and I bet if all android type phones were lumped into a single category they would be just as high in theft rate as iDevices and maybe even higher. Sure some criminals might see the iDevice and know exactly how much they can pawn it for and maybe make a bit more compared the numerous devices by other manufacturers but that's

What I'm saying is that money is falling out of use, maybe not for you, but for me and many others.

Why pay ATM fees to grab $20 or even $60, when you could just pay with a debit card and have the retailer pay for the transaction fee (aside from certain a-holes like ARCO and some corner stores that pass on the fee to the consumer)

About a decade ago, I would typically keep about $100 in the house just because. Now days it's rare if I have $15 around at any given time. Mostly I keep a roll of quarters in the car to pay for meters, and even those are starting to go the electronic payment route.

And if you don't like ATM fees, use the grocery store checkout as your ATM.Yes, you have to buy something, but a pack of Altoids is a lot less than most ATM fees, and much more invigorating;)

About a decade ago, I would typically keep about $100 in the house just because. Now days it's rare if I have $15 around at any given time.

Well I usually have some cash around just because it's guaranteed to work. I recently had to replace my VISA card because it appeared somehow it'd been compromised, which meant doing several days of Christmas shopping without it until a replacement arrived. I do have a credit card laying around here somewhere too but cash always works. It doesn't mean I use it much, but it's useful to have when you need it.

I'm from the DC area, and we had the same problem. Chief Lanier (our chief of police) along with other counterparts from other major urban centers with a lot of iPhones, have had the same problem...and they pushed the cellular carriers to make it possible (as it already has been in Europe for a long time) to essentially blacklist stolen devices. As we speak, the system is going into use, and soon stolen iPhones will be basically worthless. iPads are a little different, since you can do most of what you

All iDevices (and most upscale Android devices) can be remotely bricked if set up properly. The problem is 90% of the owners have no clue this is a free service that would immediately drop the want for expensive bricks.

This post is nonsense. The iPhone is expensive in unsubsidized markets. A $400 subsidy doesn't add $400 to the price rather it is a subsidy what consumers pay. As for American phone subsidies. Phone subsidies have been a crucial component of building America's cellular infrastructure. It may be completely irrational but that irrationality doesn't change the fact:

a) The quality of one's total cellular experience is highly dependent on the quality of the handset.b) The better the cellular experience th

Is tracking software -- the kind users install named "Find My iPhone" or "Find My Android." In anticipation of the day when their device may be stolen or lost.

Here in Seattle, WA, the police are also responding to a great surge in these theft calls. The reason is simple: if they do not respond, the owner might take the law into his or her own hands (or the hands of their posse, in some cases). The police would rather intervene and not have people get into such risky situations.

The general consensus of criminologist is that two factors killed car stero thefts...First, car manfacturers started putting in better stereos into most cars reducing the market for stolen car stereos.Second, it was much easier to fence GPS navigation devices in glove boxes than spend the time to rip out the car stereo.

So with this logic, we should force carriers to only give out smart phones for free (you could still get a feature phone for $40) and have people carry easy to fence sunglasses and gold jewel

The other thing of course is that now so many manufacturers have strange custom bezels for the stereo, so if you rip a stereo out of a car it will only fit the same make and model. Furthermore, these days the stereo display is integrated into the dashboard, and the controls are integrated into the steering wheel. So, even if you remove the stereo and fit it to an identical car, the serial numbers don't match up and it won't work properly.

But it seems the best way to fight the iCrime Wave might be to slash the $699 price of an iPhone (unactivated), which costs an estimated $207 to make.

Only if you ignore such pesky things like R&D, salaries, buildings, administrative staff, operating costs, tooling costs, distribution, packaging, marketing and so on.

Apple make a good profit from their handsets, but not the three times that the submission implies. It's also worth noting that whilst the Nexus is impressively priced, the only Android OEM that is really making any money is Samsung - everyone else isn't doing quite so well.

Instead, Apple should SQUASH the black market by making it easy for customers to report a device stolen. Once reported stolen, Apple should brick the phone remotely and contact the service provider to have the IMEI blacklisted.

AT&T and TMobile just started blocking blacklisted IMEIs last month. As other carriers follow suit and companies like Apple make it easier for the average consumer to make the report, thieves will eventually learn that the devic

This is an awfully bad summary. There is no need to try to be snarky from the beginning. Also, what Bloomberg's press secretary said is so stupid that is fitting for the Innocent's day, the spanish and latin american version of April's fools that was yesterday.

Of course thieves and muggers will try to steal expensive gadgets. People don't wear expensive jewelry like in past years because it is out of fashion and, unlike jewelry, gadgets can perform an useful function so they are a more common and convenient

Ah if only it were that simple. Americans consume excess out of status envy, depression, inferiority-complex... you name it. They don't call it retail therapy for nothing. The subliminal messages in the ads try to make you feel inferior or backward if you don't buy the latest and greatest gadget. Ignore the ads, work on your self-esteem in positive ways, and gain a sense of independence.

This is a nationwide problem and thus not unique to NYC. I live in the DC area and device theft is so much of a problem that DC Metro Transit Police have warnings posted everywhere as well as pretty good prevention tips.

Not exalting the gifted prevents quarrelling.
Not collecting treasure prevents stealing.
Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

The wise therefore rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies,
by weakening ambitions and strengthening bones.
If people lack knowledge and desire,
then intellectuals will not try to interfere.
If nothing is done, then all will be well

It's the guns that are responsible for the shootings. Forget Constitutional rights, just ban them and problem solved.It's the iPhones/Pads that are responsible for the spike in crime that makes me look bad as America's Mayor. Blame them, and the dead guy, and I'm in the clear. Without a doubt if there weren't all of these lovely iPhones and iPads all over the place criminals would stop stealing stuff altogether, so spake Mayor Bloomberg (S)*

According to the very article linked in the summary, car stereo theft is virtually nonexistent because aftermarket car stereos are virtually nonexistent. Auto manufacturers put in good enough radios that practically nobody replaces them, and the original equipment radios only fit in that make/model/year of car.

The cost of a radio has nothing to do with it. There's no market for a radio that only fits a couple years of (as an example) three models of Ford products. Thieves don't steal things that they can't

Including a stereo in every car killed the theft. Once everyone had stereo in their car, there was no one who needed to buy stolen units.

I'll never understand the appeal of iPhones. My wife had one (a 3GS) for three years on AT&T. It didn't work for phone calls most of the time, and data was so slow it was almost useless. She recently changed to Verizon and got an iPhone 5. Doh! The iPhone 5 can't understand her speech input (she has a slight Japanese accent), when she got it google maps was gone and the Apple maps thing was crap. Every time she called me with the 3GS (when it worked), there was about a 3 or 4 second delay before my audio would get through to her. I'd answer, say hello, and wait, and wait, and wait, until eventually she'd hear me and start talking. I'm not sure if the 5 has the same problem.

What is it about iPhones that keeps people buying them even when they have so many problems? It's as if Apple keeps sending out alpha or beta test stuff and people happily pay through the nose to find out what works and what doesn't this time around.

What is it about iPhones that keeps people buying them even when they have so many problems?

I hate to break it to you but they probably don't have those problems.

I've gone through a 3G, a 4, a 4S and now a 5 and I've not experienced any of the issues you describe. My friends don't have those problems either. On that basis, I don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest she's probably got a duff handset - it happens.

My advice is to install Google Maps onto her phone (yeah, we know Apple Maps is rubbish) an

If banning guns will cut down on crime, this is absolute proof that banning I-Phones and I-Pads will also reduce crime. At the very least I-product owners need to have background checks and get registed and licenced to carry them. Also I-Pad 2s should be outright banned. Who in their right mind actually needs and I-Pad 2? The retina display isn't that much better and all it is doing is fuleing a crime wave.

Challenge: Tell me why my post is wrong, but banning gus is right.LOL

Because no one can walk into a crowded public place and kill a dozen people with an iPhone or iPad? Though I suppose you might be able to take down one or two slow moving people with a strike to the head with an iPad.

Actually not true. Anti-theft measures, custom sizes, plus sane after market prices have all contributed significantly to the reduction in car break ins to steal stereo equipment... come on dude, this was even part of the summary.

Totally right. We would have been better off without those damn dirty immigrants. People like Albert Einstein, Sergey Brin, and Andrew Grove polluted our country with their crazy scientific and business ideas. Surely we would be better off if we completely closed our borders and our minds such that outsiders could never corrupt our great country...