I sure smacked a hornets nest with this thread. My main complant is the never ending droon of three-four cords. Tech-camps have some idea that there noise is the only one. Runing that 24/7. What the did you come all the way out to the desert to listen to what you do at home. I know,,,It's to inflick it onto others. The only reason I can see why you listen to it is: you have less talent than the guy messing w/the soud machine that made the sound in the first place.

Would you prefer the music you Listen to on the playa be the music you listen to at home? I know what it's like for me to want to bring my music everywhere. Sometimes I just want to share it with the world, weather I've written it or not.
Music is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For the most part, the music that most burners bring to the playa actually takes quite a bit of work. (I know it's hard to believe.) as a musician myself, I can attest to this. I haven't been to the playa for awhile so I may be misunderstanding your disinclination, but from being around the burners I'm around and from my experience at the playa last, the trance, 4/4 8/8, semi mono polytones you hear on the playa could be a lot worse.
In fact, I've heard lots worse in the city. Makes me look forward to being around any burner and their music.

Hey, Krimson and Will Rogers listen to some cool stuff. do they bring their music up to the playa?
They should.
last I knew they would swing between killer drum type themes to King crimson. Maybe you should do a music variety theme camp . (for lack of better words.)

I happen to LOVE the dance music, and I hope that as long as BRC exists, the techno camps are allowed to exist. I would put them way out on the ends like most are now or maybe go back to locating them farther out like in the past.

But as much as I love my dance music, I would like to hear some different things. BM exposes me to many kinds of art that I might not ever see here in the Midwest. I wish my listening experience was exposed to the same level of diversity my visual experience is.

But BM without the deep boom, boom, boom of Techno just wouldn't seem like BM to me.

well, *that's* a not so subtle way of saying "i think your complaints are worthless and i don't really cre bout you."

(the playa is a big place. how bout we move all the rave camps 10 miles down the lakebed?)

How about we move the few people that complain so much 10 miles down the playa where it is nice and quiet and then they will have all the quiet they want?

To be serious, I just don't understand why people have to make such an issue with this. By late in the night 80% of BRC is quiet. I mean REALLY quiet. If you don't like the bass, just camp further away from the ends of the city or the Esplanade. I don't understand why that is such hard concept for those that don't like techno music. I've ridden my bike out on some of the outer rings of the city during the loudest times at night and it is AMAZING how quiet it is out there. There are all kinds of loud things at Burning Man, not just a large soundsystems. Should we get rid of all loud things? If we do that might as well not even call it Burning Man anymore.

This topic gets rehashed over and over and usually it is the same people bringing it up. So it is not really that I don't care about a person or their opinion, I just think sometimes people don't care to look at the "solutions" that are already in place and totally sufficient to address the issue.

The only noise that needs to be "turned down" is this POINTLESS whining.

Another thing... the idea that DJ's or those that produce electronic music "have no talent" or some related argument is not based on fact. I could provide countless reasons why this view is not accurate. It's just narrow-minded to me. Don't like the music... that's fine... but that doesn't make you an expert.

To me it is not a matter of whether or not the music is or is not good. Or how talented someone and their laptop is. (Echo and the Bunnymen?)

I like techno/trance/house/whatever. I also like rap, funk, rock, and just about everything else except polka. (Polka only works when drinking German beir.)

Now, that said. I don't want to have a pounding migraine after 10 minutes because someone seems to feel that bass = music. Nor do I want to have to move my camp because some asshat techno camp moved in next to me or a block away for all I care mid-week or whatever.

I'm all for freedom of expression, however your art is not necessarily my art and you should be cognizant of that. The fact that you tell me I have to move my camp site way the hell out to BFE shows simply that you're self-centered and care only about your wishes. Therefore by your rules I have a right to take a sledgehammer to your power source as that would be my form of expression as it relates to your form of expression.

Common courtesy on all parts is to be appreciated I would think.

And WTH is up w/ all these computer jockies thinking that clipping = better music anyway? Maybe someone should set up Camp 176db Mozart next to your techno camp. At least I'd be able to sleep until they started up with some Ride of the Valkyries. Then I'd likely go into 3rd grade dodgeball flashbacks and duck and cover.

the idea that DJ's or those that produce electronic music "have no talent" or some related argument is not based on fact. I could provide countless reasons why this view is not accurate. It's just narrow-minded to me. Don't like the music... that's fine... but that doesn't make you an expert.

DangerMouse wrote:To me it is not a matter of whether or not the music is or is not good. Or how talented someone and their laptop is. (Echo and the Bunnymen?)

I like techno/trance/house/whatever. I also like rap, funk, rock, and just about everything else except polka. (Polka only works when drinking German beir.)

Now, that said. I don't want to have a pounding migraine after 10 minutes because someone seems to feel that bass = music. Nor do I want to have to move my camp because some asshat techno camp moved in next to me or a block away for all I care mid-week or whatever.

I'm all for freedom of expression, however your art is not necessarily my art and you should be cognizant of that. The fact that you tell me I have to move my camp site way the hell out to BFE shows simply that you're self-centered and care only about your wishes. Therefore by your rules I have a right to take a sledgehammer to your power source as that would be my form of expression as it relates to your form of expression.

Common courtesy on all parts is to be appreciated I would think.

And WTH is up w/ all these computer jockies thinking that clipping = better music anyway? Maybe someone should set up Camp 176db Mozart next to your techno camp. At least I'd be able to sleep until they started up with some Ride of the Valkyries. Then I'd likely go into 3rd grade dodgeball flashbacks and duck and cover.

Self-centered? I really don;t think i am being self centered at all. I actually believe I am very considerate of other people's opinions.

I am not asking you to camp out in BFE (If anyone has been asked to move it was the rave camps themselves, historically). You have just as much right to camp any place you want as anyone else, however... if your number one priority is to have quiet then don't camp up at the end where the large sound camps are. No one is taking your right to choose away here. Seems pretty straighforward to me! I have no problem with placing loud sound in a certain area, but that doesn't seem to be enough for you, which I don't understand because that leaves you the majority of BRC to find a nice quiet place to settle down. Instead it seems you would choose to camp in an area that is prone to being loud and then threaten to smash people's equipment when it's too much for you. There is really no one to blame here but yourself in that case. The solution to your annoyance is there, it's just a matter of CHOOSING to not put yourself in an area with loud music.

Finally, it's Burning Man!!! If it is such a difficult place for you to be because of the noise maybe you consider staying home where you can have complete control over your own environment, and listen to whatever you want, at whatever volume you want.

So please don't call me self centered. I am not interested in bringing down anyone's good time. In fact that is why I perceive the narrow mindedness of those that threaten pulling plugs, smashing equipment, or whatever else to be the one's with the self-centered intolerant viewpoint.

Again, most of BRC is really a quiet place. It's not difficult at all to find a spot that you can get some sleep (and that doesn't mean you need to sleep out near the trash fence).

With all that said, granted there will be those that set up and play loud in "inappropriate" areas and poor times, but you don't to be playing music to be loud and disturb the neighbors.

Maybe I should come smash your computer because you are using it to "be loud" and disturb my eplaya experience.

I like to think I'm open to all sorts of music, but I made the mistake last year of camping on the last street in the techno district. One brave, obviously hearing-impaired soul had his collection going literally 24/7.
Now any objective person can understand that even professional music can get old really fast when it's playing constantly. So it's easy to imagine how a reasonable person might consider suicide after 96 straight hours of Johnny Def's Hooked On Techno.

Not a problem. I'll just be camping more towards the center this year and bringing better ear plugs.

I choose to live out on the last street of the City because I'm a night sleeper. And I don't sleep well with earplugs.
Even then, as the week progresses, the din of the City does manage to reach me, even with earplugs. But I do get SOME sleep.

This is not to say I'm opposed to the music. It's art. What I object to is the 12am outer ring rolling party/wiseacres that like to EXPLODE their various music noisemakers, because they're drunk, they just got off shift, or the old standby excuse: "nobody should sleep! This is BURNINGMAN!"

I'd just like to clarify this little point about music vs distance from Center Camp. Sound does travel. It dissipates, but it does travel.

I personally don't understand ear-bleedingly loud music, but then I guess "if it's too loud, you're too old". Once inside the City at nite, when I'm not actually working, I can enjoy the din. Hell, the very AIR is pulsing with a gazillion techno/rave camps (all claiming uniqueness). So I appreciate it for the "vibration experience" or sensory overwhelm that this provides.

During the day I get to enjoy a delightful cross section of excellent music during my travels, played at reasonable levels.

Tech-camps have some idea that there noise is the only one. Runing that 24/7. What the did you come all the way out to the desert to listen to what you do at home.

i don't necessarily think that everyone who likes techno in the desert listens to it at home. i don't really see the arguement there... er.. sorry.

I know,,,It's to inflick it onto others. The only reason I can see why you listen to it is: you have less talent than the guy messing w/the soud machine that made the sound in the first place.

hm. can you look at it as maybe just a different kind of talent, one that you don't relate too? there's lots of talent in the world that i recognize, but don't appreciate.

i'd also like to venture to say that one of the reasons there are so many techno camps is that ravers are damn good organizers. ravers throw parties because event production is part of their culture. i've seen small bands of techno-lovin kids get together and create a massive productions out of nothing... and that is a talent! creating an expressive event through community involvement is what they are all about, and they've gotten very good at doing this.

burning man has room for all kinds of music. and, as with most problems people have with the event, i suggest that you colloaborate with others who feel the same way and create more venues on the playa for different kinds of music. i'm sure it would be appreciated by others who feel like you.

Quote: My main complant is the never ending droon of three-four cords.

isn't most techno 4/4?

one of you is referring to the time signature and one to the chord progression I think. In the end this argument usually boils down to it's ugly roots in personal taste.

an anecdote to illuminate
was at a friends house a few weeks ago and surrounded by U2 fans (don't get me wrong, with the help of mr. eno they have cranked out some lovely songs). A dance remix of elevation came on the stereo. Two of the U2 fans began to complain about how pointless it was. Their chief complaint was that the song itself was relatively intact and that the remixers had simply rebuilt the percussion track to revolve around the familiar oontz oontz oontz and how boring it was. I replied that larry mullen has never written nor played an interesting rhythm track in his lifetime. What was more intersting about boom chack boom chack than oontz oontz oontz oontz? Nothing. They are both pretty vanilla and predictable and only serve to keep time. They add nothing unique to the music. It's simply that some folks prefer one to the other. For me it's a matter of context and don't even try telling me that one is better than the other. Don't make me go there. Don't make me bust out my Bmus on your ass.

Quote: My main complant is the never ending droon of three-four cords.

isn't most techno 4/4?

one of you is referring to the time signature and one to the chord progression I think. In the end this argument usually boils down to it's ugly roots in personal taste.

an anecdote to illuminate
was at a friends house a few weeks ago and surrounded by U2 fans (don't get me wrong, with the help of mr. eno they have cranked out some lovely songs). A dance remix of elevation came on the stereo. Two of the U2 fans began to complain about how pointless it was. Their chief complaint was that the song itself was relatively intact and that the remixers had simply rebuilt the percussion track to revolve around the familiar oontz oontz oontz and how boring it was. I replied that larry mullen has never written nor played an interesting rhythm track in his lifetime. What was more intersting about boom chack boom chack than oontz oontz oontz oontz? Nothing. They are both pretty vanilla and predictable and only serve to keep time. They add nothing unique to the music. It's simply that some folks prefer one to the other. For me it's a matter of context and don't even try telling me that one is better than the other. Don't make me go there. Don't make me bust out my Bmus on your ass.[/url]

Late in the night last year I heard a bunch of drummers. I was in bed so did'nt know where there camp was. I felt the talent they had to offer. Most of the tec stuff was "no talent" As in, How many time can some one scream "yellow submarine" before you start looking for your gun. Most of the stuff the king did was junk. Or the boss. What he had two maybe three good one. It just ocurred to me: It's the filler that drives me nuts. That is all that no talent trance-tec-no is.

Seriously, saying you don't like 'techno' whatever the hell that is, is like saying you don't like music with guitars in it, or with a singer, or ... There's so many kinds of 'techno' that if you think you don't like it, you just haven't heard the kind you like yet.

Now if you were saying 'happy hardcore-no', that, I could agree with you.