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So I read an article somewhat recently, a month or two back, and while I was here I thought I'd mention it because I believe I've seen a few others mention that they also have PCOS. That's Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome for those who don't know.

Currently, the medical research community is discussing whether PCOS is actually an intersex condition. The reasoning behind this is that they've now found what they think is the cause, which is the hormone levels (particularly testosterone, iirc) of the pregnant mother. This affects the female fetus in a way that doesn't appear until puberty, when testosterone levels are way higher than they should be for a cis woman.

This jives with my own experience. When I was diagnosed, my endo told me I was one of her most severe cases with my T levels at around 350. That's in the range for a cis man. My experience with puberty was almost half male half female, because I had what are usually male experiences like hair in places it shouldn't be (face, tummy, butt), my voice dropped and cracked, and I had actual wet dreams. My clitoris is actually somewhat large for a cis woman, and my trans man ex told me that what I described with puberty and it just growing was something that happened with trans guys when they went on T. He commented that the size of mine was about what his had grown to after he was on T for awhile. It's not quite large enough to count as abnormal but as I'm primarily interested in women and have seen a lot of clits, it is definitely on the larger side.

I'm sharing this info because while it's still being researched and debated, finding out that it might be an intersex condition actually helped me a lot with emotionally dealing with it. It weirdly feels less like something "wrong" with me and more now that it was something that I had no control over (yeah like I had any anyway but brains work weird), that it was closer to being like a chromosome abnormality where it's just something that happens in utero and they're only now figuring out why. My sister has not sought a diagnosis but she also has the symptoms of PCOS so there is that as well. It's actually common to both my maternal and paternal lines; my half sister from my father has it too, and several of my aunts and cousins have PCOS or a hormonal/endocrine disorder of some kind.

I'm not quite comfortable claiming publicly that I'm intersex until the research is more definitive, but it's put my mind at ease. I think it also helps that I now have what is a plausible medical reason as to why it happened in the first place, and in my mind I can put it in the same category as my genetic health disorders. It's something that developed because of my mom's hormone levels during pregnancy, and they don't have the evidence for this yet but there's some suspicion of a genetic link. That would go along with PCOS being common in both sides of my family.

It's just... been a relief for me, and knowing this has helped reduce my dysphoria. It's also helped that I finally managed to get a doc to prescribe me spiro and this hasn't done miracles but it's reduced the rate of hair growth and the visibility by a fair amount, enough that it also has a definite effect on my dysphoria. I identify as genderfluid at this point pretty much but that's between female and non-binary, I am definitely not a guy.

I wanted to share this because I thought it might help someone else, and my experience with pretty much all of the PCOS forums out there is that the main focus is the infertility that's associated with it. I've got medical conditions that could kill me if I got pregnant, and ones that would definitely no question about it be permanently worsened by pregnancy. So that aspect has actually been a good thing for me, but about 99% of what I can find cis women talking about is infertility and pregnancy. Which, hey, I'm glad they're getting help and support they need but it doesn't really help me. Thus I post here, in case it helps someone who's been down this road too.

There seems to be a lot of push against PCOS being considered as Intersex, which I wonder if it stems from the fact of how many people have been diagnosed with PCOS. It would push against the idea that being intersex is extremely rare when in fact the sex binary isn't... as binary as we like to think it is.

There seems to be a lot of push against PCOS being considered as Intersex, which I wonder if it stems from the fact of how many people have been diagnosed with PCOS. It would push against the idea that being intersex is extremely rare when in fact the sex binary isn't... as binary as we like to think it is.

I am most pleased that you had decided to join Susan's Place and thank you for writing your initial posting here on the Introductions Forum,

By now you should know that this is the right place for you to be to find out what others may have to say that may have been in your circumstances and with your questions and concerns. There are a lot of members here that will be able to identify with your situation as you continue to feel free to share it.

Please allow me to warmly WELCOME you to Susan's Place. You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.

As you are certainly aware you can share with others and involve yourself with some give and take with other like-minded members. When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here if you wish and receive support from others and offer support to others. .... ***It's a very good chance that you might find that you will make some new friends here.

Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace. I have included information about the site that will help you navigate around and best utilize the features here. Please look closely at the LINKS in RED, answers are there to many questions that new members ask.

Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.Danielle

Here are some links to the site rules and stuff that all new members should be familiar with:

There seems to be a lot of push against PCOS being considered as Intersex, which I wonder if it stems from the fact of how many people have been diagnosed with PCOS. It would push against the idea that being intersex is extremely rare when in fact the sex binary isn't... as binary as we like to think it is.

@MahoganyKiwiOh, and another thing MahoganyKiwi, Please find your way to the Introductions Forum and write a brief introduction post and summary about yourself and about your questions and concern so that more members here on the Susan's Place forums will be aware of your arrival and therefore you may obtain more responses and information that you might be looking for and you will be able to share with others.

Enjoy your time here on the Forums, I trust that you will find this an enjoyable and informative experience.

There seems to be a lot of push against PCOS being considered as Intersex, which I wonder if it stems from the fact of how many people have been diagnosed with PCOS. It would push against the idea that being intersex is extremely rare when in fact the sex binary isn't... as binary as we like to think it is.

Basically it's the mirror image of what's happening in the assigned male population, where you also have more and more younger people with fertility problems and showing signs of endocrine disruption (and more generally disrupted prenatal sexual development).

provides a good summary of the evidence that something has gone very badly wrong in Western countries, that is resulting in male assigned people being born less male than they used to be.

My feeling is that something similar is going on in the assigned female population, and one manifestation of it is the soaring rates of PCOS. A very good case can be made that PCOS is a form of intersex. To start with you can induce PCOS experimentally in animals by exposing developing female fetuses to testosterone, something that can also produce both genital intersex and female animals with male brains, e.g.

which appears to be saying that a third of the women in their study (in Denmark) aged under 30 had PCOS, whereas only 10 percent of those over 35 did, pointing to a massive recent increase in the rate. What did they do? Redefined the criteria for what constitutes PCOS by adding in an additional hormone test, so that only 18 percent of the under 30s now meet it!