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We all love playing computer games, but are we wasting our time or learning something valuable?

When we think of a “gamer,” a very specific image often comes to mind — and it’s not always a flattering one. The world of gaming has evolved exponentially in the last decade, and what was once considered an unhealthy subculture is quickly becoming fertile ground for team building and learning leadership skills. So how can you incorporate the immense potential for learning with something as simple as a game?

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Karl Kapp is the world's leading expert on using games for learning. He's a professor of Instructional Technology at Bloomsburg University, a TEDx speaker, and founder of the educational game firm The Wisdom Learning Group. He's the author of seven books and his latest is Play to Learn: Everything You Need to Know about Designing Effective Learning Games. I recently interviewed Karl for the LEADx Podcast, where we discussed games, learning, and leadership. (The interview below has been lightly edited for space and clarity.)

Kevin Kruse: Why do you think games are effective, and are they better for teaching certain topics than others?

Karl Kapp: That's a really good question. I always say years ago ‘game’ was a four-letter word in corporations, and in some places it still is. So, the one thing I think that people don't realize about games is if they're well designed, they can provide a really great “ah-ha” moment. So an example would b a game called ‘The Beer Distribution Game.’ It was actually created in the 1960s at MIT, and it teaches people about inventory ordering and the danger of too much inventory. And I've seen instances where you could lecture to people for hours about, "You can't over-order inventory and you've got to make sure," but when they play the game, there's certain rules. You're not allowed to talk to each other, you have to make so much beer to distribute, that kind of stuff. But in the middle of the game, people have this epiphany that goes, "Oh, I can't over-order supplies when I don't need them because it causes this bullwhip effect."

And what games do is they can compress time and they can expose systems, so when you create a game and it shows you the fault of conventional thinking, it can really be a powerful learning experience. Now, on the other hand, if we take “Jeopardy” or “Wheel of Fortune” and say, "Yeah, that's a great game," I can see that being poo-poo'd by organizations. But when you get down to it, what really makes a game interesting and fun is the balancing of resources, the trade offs that you have to make, and the ability to see the direct impact of what you're doing. Oftentimes, games in a corporate setting can allow you to have this 30,000-foot view of what's happening.

We did another game with an insurance company one time and the goal was to acquire customers, and we found out through playing the game that really the only way they were acquiring any new customers was through acquisition. There was no organic growth in the game. And it was a huge epiphany for the people playing the game. So, games provide those kind of like "ah-ha" moments that — yeah, somebody can tell you about it — but the learning-by-doing process and the experience really makes a difference in a well-designed, well-crafted game.

Kruse: With these kinds of games and simulations, not only is that experience anchoring, but it's in a risk-free environment, right?

Kapp: Exactly. And the thing that fascinates me the most is if you look at the history of games for learning, it starts in the most life and death situations. So, for example, the military's been doing military games for centuries. The medical industry was one of the first industries to jump into games for health, right? So, why in these areas? Well, because they're life and death situations and you want to minimize risk and you want to maximize action and experience. So, when you think about sales, wouldn't you like to have the best sales situation ever? Well, games really allow you to practice those skill sets, to hone those skill sets, and to think, "Oh, what if this happens and what if that happens?" So, you're absolutely right. Games really provide you this freedom to fail and we know from the research that we learn best after failure, not if we do something really easily. Then we don't learn from it. But if we fail at something, we reflect on it and then we take action and do the right behavior. That's where the most effective learning occurs and games are great for that.

Kruse: My son spends a lot of time playing games, but I feel like he’s getting some leadership skills. Do you think games are frying our kids' brains, or are they okay?

Kapp: I absolutely think they're okay, and I think the really interesting things are that the skills that kids are learning in the games are really applicable in other areas. You get on and they play these multiplayer first-person shooter games and they're talking to each other and they're strategizing and that kind of stuff. The way to maximize that learning is then to ask them later on, "So, what strategies did you use? Why did you decide to do that? You were trying to communicate with your teammate, but it didn't work. What do you think the problems were?" So, games are great experiential theater to play in and to learn about and to experience things, but what will really bring the learning home in playing these commercial games is to have someone ask them to reflect on what they've actually learned playing those particular games. So my two boys are actually like, "Dad, I'm not going to answer any more questions about this game!" Right? But it really is helpful for solidifying the learning.

There's a guy named Ralph Koster who wrote a book called The Theory of Fun, which was about creating games, and he said the fundamental element in game is learning. Right? You're learning how to do something. You're learning how to run from point A to point B. You're learning that failure's okay. You just get back up and do it again, and you learn how to communicate, strategize, negotiate. All those great things happen when kids play games. Now, you've got to be careful about the content, but the process in a lot of those commercial games really have applicability. In fact, there was a Harvard Business Review article years ago that said the next leadership training simulation is going to be ‘World of Warcraft.’

Because you have these people that don't directly report to you, you've got to divide up the loot when you get it, you've got to figure out how to get people from all over the world to work together. So I really think as we go more and more digital, those skills learned in games are really applicable to what's happening in a lot of organizations. I mean, think about having a global webinar or working with a global team or anything like that. Games really teach you how to do that.