Jim_Callahan:Lionel Mandrake: Well, then. I look forward to reading her groundbreaking work in the coming years. Or not.

That. MENSA membership is more an indication that you're gullible enough for the "special club" scam than anything meaningful. At least IQ itself is trying to be meaningful (and just failing).

Admittedly I facepalm a lot less at the 12-year-old joining than usual, tweens are supposed to be obsessed with stupid clique bullshiat.

I hate to say it, but THIS.

I got into Mensa at age 14. I'm not even kidding, I'll take a picture of my old membership card if anyone calls me a liar. And yeah, that's why I joined, because I thought I was hot shiat and smarter than everyone and wanted to prove it to the world. I stopped paying my membership dues within two years because I went to a few meetings and read the letters section in the Mensa Bulletin and realized that just because you're really really good at taking certain kinds of tests mean you're a stable individual worth knowing. Honestly, the letters in the Mensa Bulletin were crazier than the letters to the editor in my small town's local newspaper.

You want to know what the Mensa test consisted of when I took it?

1. Straight analogies, ala the SAT.2. Picture analogies. Same thing as section 1, but with pictures instead of words.3. On the left side is a list of ammounts of money. On the right side is a list of numbers of coins (A. 2 quarters, 1 penny, 5 dimes, 3 nickels). You have to match them up as quickly as possible.4. We got read a story about the history of greek stagecraft and Dionysus, and had to answer questions about details we remembered from listening to the story.

IMO the true IQ test is realizing that Mensa is bullshiat once you're in it and deciding to not give them $50 a year for the "bragging right" of being a mensa member.

GhostFish:My parents were throwing a big Christmas party one year, invited lots of people and friends of friends and so on.One guy showed up at the door and asked, "Is this the Mensa meeting?"My parents thought he was joking and played along.

Poor guy didn't realize he was at the wrong place until much, much later in the evening.

So I'm kind of left with my doubts about Mensa.

Well, intelligence and social grace are two different things. If the guy was too afraid of sounding "stupid" by asking later on if he really WAS in the right place, he would have just sucked it up and played along. Remember, smart people are looked down upon in our society, so are already social outcasts. Do you think he REALLY wanted to make himself look even more the fool than he already did?

Is this where I get to both brag and bring about a measure of normality to the argument?

Okay:

I had an IQ (then in 1998, when I was 15) of 156

I *have* an IQ (now as of 2009) of 171.

I didn't get smarter, they just rewrote the definitions.

The only thing it's really made me aware of is that I know more than the gross majority of people when it comes to rational, down-to-earth things.

I can't fix a nuclear submarine, but I can tell you how it works. I can't do brain surgery, but I can tell you what part they're operating on based on what part of the brain they're focusing.

I have nothing more than pattern recognition and eidetic memory to thank for that, if I read something I will remember (even if it's a fleeting glance) 70-90% of it, compared to the "average" (always be dubious of this term when you hear it) of 35-45%.

What did I do with all of this knowledge, nascent ability and gifted-ness?

Not much. I woodwork, am employed at a pizza joint (for now) and play strategy games.

BUT; when it comes to cognitive ability - I will wipe the floor with a good nine-tenths of the people in the world.

HOWEVER; I work at a pizza joint.

TL;DR IQ is just a number. You can be smart as HELL, and still be nothing more than a contemporary to your contemporaries... but if you do what makes you happy; you are officially smarter than that same "90%". There are a number of literal honest-to-God geniuses in the world (as *I* call them) who have figured out how to do nothing but what they love... and are both more successful and happy than the guys who make three times as much.

Remember Office Space? At the end? When the smartest guy in the company realizes that doing dirty, sweaty construction is better than air-conditioned Hell? I'm that guy.

/XKCD's creator is a member, and he's openly said that some of their problems, unsolved since their creation, will NEVER be solved without computers and humans working together. There are story problems that span 100 pages... and have only one concrete answer. Concrete = When you hear the answer, you shiat bricks, smack yourself in the forehead and silently scream "STUPID. STUPID. STUPID." for five minutes. The devil is in the details, indeed.

Rockstone:Rockstone: I can't help but notice that the math she is doing is really not that complicated.I've seen younger people do more interesting math. Her math is just integration. Anyone can do integration. I could teach a 6th grader integration. You really don't even need algebra.

Actually, I just looked at that, it's summation, not integration...

Integration is summation.It's just a summation that happens to nicely cancel out most of the terms (a Riemann Sum) so that you can make an easy shortcut for calculating it.

And while the math she's standing next to isn't that terribly complex, you have to take into account1) It's probably just for the photo, and2) She's 12, and even most of the smart kids aren't doing anything with sigma notation in 6th grade. Infinite series are not trivial.

I say the same thing about MENSA that I say about every other exclusive club that recognizes people based on some special attribute.

You're not that special.

In this case: Hey we created a club for all the smart people.

And you're doing what with it? Sitting around talking about how smart you are? If you're going to get a bunch of smart people together then have them cooperate to figure out a problem. Otherwise it might as well just be a meeting at the local Moose Lodge.

intelligent comment below:LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.

The difference between those jobs is a physical job leaves your mind free to think and relax while the desk job is tons of stress that leaves your mind in a vegetable state. I came across a few very smart people who enjoyed physical jobs because they could go home and not be zombies after work.

I'll add myself to that category; I've had some of my best thoughts about philosophy while acting in porn films.

GhostFish:My parents were throwing a big Christmas party one year, invited lots of people and friends of friends and so on.One guy showed up at the door and asked, "Is this the Mensa meeting?"My parents thought he was joking and played along.

Poor guy didn't realize he was at the wrong place until much, much later in the evening.

So I'm kind of left with my doubts about Mensa.

Excerpt:How I Joined Mensa

I started with the phone book. Looking up "mensa" was not going to be easy, what with having to follow the strict alphabetizing rules that are so common nowadays. I prefer a softer, more fuzzy alphabetizing scheme, one that allows the mind to float free and "happen" upon the word. There is pride in that. The dictionary is a perfect example of over-alphabetization, with its harsh rules and every little words neatly in place. It almost makes me never want to eat again.

Joining Mensa means that you are a genius, and enables you to meet other members who will understand what the hell you are talking about when you say, for example, "That lamppost is tawdry." That's the kind of person they're after. Joining Mensa instills in one a courtly benevolence toward nonmembers, who would pretend to know what you know, think what you think, and stultify what you perambulate.

I worried about the arbitrary 132 cut-off point, until I met someone with an I.Q. of 131 and, honestly, he was a bit slow on the uptake.

I gave up on the phone book, which led me astray time and again with its complex passages, and then tried blind calling with no success. Next, 1-800-MENSA, which weirdly brought dead silence on the other end of the phone. A week later while volksvalking, I realized that "Mensa" didn't contain enough numerals to be a phone number, and knew it must be understood that any future member would be able to figure out the next two digits in the sequence. I tried dialling MENSANE, MENSAIL, MENSAFE, and MENSAAB, but got three rebuffs and a fax tone.Link

MajorGroove:I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of change that this is the last the world hears of her.

I think that is the case with a lot of these young kids who are listed as geniuses, the same as the ones who graduate from Ivy League schools young etc.... Although just because we do not hear from them doesn't mean they aren't accomplishing something amazing.....it just means they aren't getting reality shows for having sex tapes or being fat rednecks. And if they went on a show like America Has Talent.....and showed some awesome invention, they'd get booed off the stage for someone who hits themselves in the nuts.

intelligent comment below:LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.

The difference between those jobs is a physical job leaves your mind free to think and relax while the desk job is tons of stress that leaves your mind in a vegetable state. I came across a few very smart people who enjoyed physical jobs because they could go home and not be zombies after work.

Funny... I really enjoy the occasional return to the manual labour of my teen years for exactly that reason. It always seems to surprise people that I'm so willing to roll up my sleeves and sweat a bit.

Lots of people say they come up with solutions in their sleep, but I've done some of my best thinking while on a long drive or slugging boxes.

FishyFred:IQ scores are skewed in the early years because, if I'm not mistaken, age is factored in.

Age is factored in but this makes IQ levels in earlier years pronounced due to development of major cognitive functions in adolescence rather than being skewed as a score. Rather, the environment plays a dramatic role in development, and thus IQ scores in young children are less a reflection of potential and more of the environment. Scores are a little harder to get in children, and while several assessments should always be done this is especially true for children, but the score is not skewed.

What this means for the child is an entirely different discussion about the correlation between IQ and achievement, what form of intelligence is being assessed by those tests, and similar.

ciberido:FishyFred: IQ scores are skewed in the early years because, if I'm not mistaken, age is factored in.

Well, not in theory, at least. I wouldn't say so much that they're skewed as potentially less accurate.

If I might weigh in, I think "subject to change" is more to the point than either "skewed" or "less accurate".

The tested IQ of a 30 year old will probably not change much in the next 20 years of life. The tested IQ of a 12 year old could potentially go either up or down by a considerable margin in the next 10 years.

COMALite J:Mensa ― where you have to be smart enough to score reasonably high on an I.Q. test, yet stupid enough to plunk down annual dues for little more than what basically amounts to bragging rights.

As a former Mensa member and local chapter president, I must take issue with this statement...we didn't even get bragging rights.

Why is it that every IQ thread around here seems to touch a great many nerves? My mother was right--she never told me my IQ score. Said it wouldn't be good for my head. All these years later, I'm glad I don't know. No, I've never been tested since I was an adult.

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it

Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.

You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.

What's the ratio between jobs where critical thinking and problem solving are important and jobs that require a strong back? I don't know so I have to ask. Take a person who gets paid to hammer nails, dig holes or lift a heavy lourde and ask him/her to take up on a job which demands their mental faculties to be exercised repeatedly. That person might have to create answers to problems where no answer existed before. How would that person feel at the end of the day?

On the other hand, take a thinker and put him in place of the laborer. He will probably pray for death at the end of the work week, if not the end of the day. Could his body eventually become acclimated to the work and he be no different than the laborer?

Not to go on, but sitting behind a desk doesn't always require a smart person, if routines are already established one doesn't have to be creative. In case of event A, you execute plan B. That's the mental equivalent of a fry cook.

Kind of weird that the Daily Fail chooses two scientists who, although they were certainly very bright, and brighter than most, were examples of extreme application of their intelligence versus innate ability.

Isn't there that guy with a 206 IQ that works for NASA and nobody bothers to remember his name because he hasn't done anything standout yet?

I can't help but wonder if being a member of the mensa's problem solving club helped her score in the same way sat review courses help with that test. Perhaps she is just really smart and prepared for that specific test, and not a super genius along the lines of Einstein and hawking. And if she is that smart, she is now burdened by enormous expectations. If she "just" becomes a doctor or lawyer, she will be regarded as underachieving

Pumpernickel bread:I can't help but wonder if being a member of the mensa's problem solving club helped her score in the same way sat review courses help with that test. Perhaps she is just really smart and prepared for that specific test, and not a super genius along the lines of Einstein and hawking. And if she is that smart, she is now burdened by enormous expectations. If she "just" becomes a doctor or lawyer, she will be regarded as underachieving

If you read TFA, I'd be more suspicious of eidetic memory. She memorizes her part for a play within 24 hrs.

COMALite J:Mensa isn′t even the most exclusive intellectual society. It′s actually one of the least exclusive. You only need to be in the top 2%, which means that out of the ~300 million people in the USA, about six million would qualify. Big whoop.

The Four Sigma Society, for instance, requires that you be a minimum of four standard deviations to the right of the mean. And they′re not the most exclusive either.

Mensa ― where you have to be smart enough to score reasonably high on an I.Q. test, yet stupid enough to plunk down annual dues for little more than what basically amounts to bragging rights.

If she is so smart why is she carrying that huge stack of books, and not having some guy do it for her, in fact what the hell is she doing with books anyway in the information age not smart enough to get a kindle?