Hoping that the show can continue with the esoteric humor and not be morphed into a cookie cutter sitcom.

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Sounds to me like Harmon is quite an a-hole, but he made a brilliant show that I love, so he'll be missed.

But from a business standpoint, I'm not sure I can fault Sony for what they did. It sucks, but business is business.

I'm just not clear on why Sony would risk the show's small entrenched following this late in the game if it's so hell-bent on getting it to syndication, unless it has a gentleman's agreement with NBC that ensured firing Harmon would make it happen regardless.

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Sounds to me like Harmon is quite an a-hole, but he made a brilliant show that I love, so he'll be missed.

But from a business standpoint, I'm not sure I can fault Sony for what they did. It sucks, but business is business.

But I don't get it as a business decision. Community was borderline renewal in the first place.

I am a bit shocked that NBC was okay with this, but then again in the NBC thread I specifically mentioned that NBC need broader based comedies to reach a wider audience and this certainly will become much broader. I just don't see how it will attract many new viewers after it has developed its own reputation.

Not sure I care about a Welcome Back Kotteresque Community.

Seems to me NBC should just cancel it then then trying to completely reboot a show that barely got renewed.

Seems to me NBC should just cancel it then then trying to completely reboot a show that barely got renewed.

"Reboot" is probably a bit strong... we have no idea what the new showrunners have in mind. The problem is that even if they want to continue to make exactly the kind of show that Community has been, likely they won't be able to. Dan Harmon is just too unique.

My understanding is that Harmon has a pretty spotty record as a showrunner (late delivery, over budget, and so on). Obviously creating the vision for a show and delivering on the vision are coupled, but it seems like they could have at least explored replacing him as showrunner for the basic blocking and tackling stuff, on which they no doubt weren't too happy with him, and left him as the chief creative voice. It's a shame they just blew him off entirely.

I'm just not clear on why Sony would risk the show's small entrenched following this late in the game if it's so hell-bent on getting it to syndication, unless it has a gentleman's agreement with NBC that ensured firing Harmon would make it happen regardless.

Here's my thinking: the show just got a 13 episode order. With Harmon on board, it would almost ensure that those were the final 13 episodes, since nobody can stand working with him. However, if they replace Harmon, maybe they can convince NBC to order the back 9, and once there is a full 4 seasons, we've all seen what Sony will do to get their sitcoms to syndication (see 'Til Death). So basically, there's no economic downside to letting Harmon go, and there is a potential upside.

I'll agree that there is definitely a creative downside to letting him go, but if the show ends after 13 more episodes and those episodes are slightly lower in quality, does that really matter in the grand scheme of things?

"Reboot" is probably a bit strong... we have no idea what the new showrunners have in mind. The problem is that even if they want to continue to make exactly the kind of show that Community has been, likely they won't be able to. Dan Harmon is just too unique.

My understanding is that Harmon has a pretty spotty record as a showrunner (late delivery, over budget, and so on). Obviously creating the vision for a show and delivering on the vision are coupled, but it seems like they could have at least explored replacing him as showrunner for the basic blocking and tackling stuff, on which they no doubt weren't too happy with him, and left him as the chief creative voice. It's a shame they just blew him off entirely.

Yeah seeing more stuff he was not a details guy it seems but should have had someone minding the office for him.

It is unfortunate that everyone working on the show essentially left with this decision. I guess it does come down to business. If community had a 4.0 or heck a 2.3 on NBC he would still be there.

I realize Sony is heading towards syndication and any sort of creative continuity is wholly unnecessary i just think for the place the show is renewing it does not make sense. NBC needs broader sitcoms but not ones they took after being niche comedies for three years.

I am sure Sony is making it cheap for NBC but as I noted in the NBC thread they can not afford to make decisions based on short term financial goals.

I appreciate the unique creative voice provided by Community but I am also a logical pragmatist who runs their own businesses. So this outcome conflicts me greatly. I really would have been better off if they did not renew the show.

I could say I will just not watch it but sitcoms are the genre I love most and it is almost impossible I would stop watching even if it were bad.

By the way I do not think it will be bad, I just think it will be so different as to be a completely different show. I don't really want the new guys to try and imitate the first three seasons, they need their own voice. I just hope they both were true fans of the show and get it so they can at least weave in a bit of a homage to the first few seasons.

I assume this has no bearing on the Comedy Central deal but I would be pretty pissed if I was Comedy Central right now. They paid for this show because it was quirky and EXTREMELY unique. They might not get that now.

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I assume this has no bearing on the Comedy Central deal but I would be pretty pissed if I was Comedy Central right now. They paid for this show because it was quirky and EXTREMELY unique. They might not get that now.

I think Comedy Central paid for rerun rights because they thought they'd be able to make money by airing the reruns. I don't think that changes with the departure of Harmon.

As is the case with all American sitcoms, it's not as if every single word of dialogue flowed directly from Dan Harmon's magic pen into the actors' mouths.

There's no reason to assume that the new showrunners will completely clean house, which means some of the writing staff from this past season will remain, and they should be completely capable of keeping up the quirkiness on their end.

So I'm willing to give next season's episodes the benefit of the doubt.

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Here's my thinking: the show just got a 13 episode order. With Harmon on board, it would almost ensure that those were the final 13 episodes, since nobody can stand working with him. However, if they replace Harmon, maybe they can convince NBC to order the back 9, and once there is a full 4 seasons, we've all seen what Sony will do to get their sitcoms to syndication (see 'Til Death). So basically, there's no economic downside to letting Harmon go, and there is a potential upside.

If that's true, then I think Sony is drastically overestimating the show's potential to build a mainstream audience while simultaneously recouping the percentage of viewers that will probably flee (probably not a great amount, but an amount all the same, especially when you're talking about a niche show like this). I equate it to Cougar Town's lack of title change: they had their chance after S1 and failed, just as Sony had its chance to sever ties with Harmon after S2 and didn't, thereby foregoing any meaningful effort at redefining the show.

The bottom line is that both Sony and NBC have created a huge mess that the show will ultimately suffer dearly from. There's obviously more to the story, because reality dictates that NBC had little incentive to renew the show beyond it being insanely cheap and not wanting to piss off Sony, so was it a lack of guts on Greenblatt's part or something more? Given the insane pilot season and NBC's dramatic fall retooling, one more show would've been nothing. If they didn't want to deal with Harmon (and clearly they didn't), they should've canceled the damn thing and come out looking infinitely better from a PR perspective than they do right now. This is largely Sony's mess, but NBC will unfairly be left to pick up most of the pieces.

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As is the case with all American sitcoms, it's not as if every single word of dialogue flowed directly from Dan Harmon's magic pen into the actors' mouths.

There's no reason to assume that the new showrunners will completely clean house, which means some of the writing staff from this past season will remain, and they should be completely capable of keeping up the quirkiness on their end.

So I'm willing to give next season's episodes the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah as Z noted, most of the main writers are gone. They approached the remaining senior writing about taking over and he essentially quit. There is nobody there to continue the voice at this point. Given that it would be a mistake for people who were never in the room to try and recreate it.

If anyone wants a good listen check out if you can still listen to Harmon when he was on Marc Maron's WTF Podcast. I found it very interesting. I believe it is episode 179 of WTF. Harmon explains how the show essentially came into existence and why they do the things they do. It is something that he essentially borrowed on and expanded from someone who was doing shorts, but clearly his vision impacted every episode.

Sepinwall's article does a very good job of explaining how other control freak show runners essentially do impact every word out of every character's mouth. Harmon's own admission on his blog is he was the same way. So there was little going on Community that did not pass through Harmon.

I realize in a more traditional setting it would be easy to transition, but it becomes more difficult when a single person is so responsible for so much that is going on.

I am also pissed that they will probably be nice to Chevy Chase. That probably pisses me off the most.

I think Comedy Central paid for rerun rights because they thought they'd be able to make money by airing the reruns. I don't think that changes with the departure of Harmon.

Yeah I don't think this stuff has any real impact on syndication deals. People will either watch the show or will not watch the show in syndication. If the show takes a total left turn halfway through its life that still won't matter much to syndication.

I suspect the average viewer who might casually turn into an episode of Community on CC would not even notice that much difference. Although I realize now the CC deal is bad because I watch Comedy Central and I am just going to be pissed every time I see a commercial for the show.

To me Community is one of the most unique sitcoms to exist in my lifetime. That it came into existence at the absolute lowest point in the history of Sitcoms in television is even more amazing. I am just disappointed, a lot. The networks are full of funny new sitcoms, but they are all very traditional compared to what Community offered. Even on a single camera edge the show was above and beyond different.

The thing that makes me laugh most with upfronts and pilots and all that talk... I realized a few years ago to not spend ANY time reading descriptions of pilots of new shows as it is worthless. I could never tell if I would like a show from a paragraph description. Perhaps an actor or a writer/creator might pique my interest, but just a description was meaningless.

I have a vague recollection of the paragraph blurb about Community and I remembered how it sounded relatively stupid and also unsustainable. Yet it was done in a ridiculous way that they could have gone on for ten years. I suspect Dan Harmon would have had all the characters die before graduate from Community College.

Also it is pretty chicken S how Sony and NBC dealt with Harmon. I believe what he says on this front because that is how tv works. They are filled with chicken s executives who would never call to explain their actions to anyone. It has to be an excruciating business to be in. They could have at least left a note on his car in the parking garage saying "You're Not Rehired! - Donald 'Chand' Trump"

I'll agree that there is definitely a creative downside to letting him go, but if the show ends after 13 more episodes and those episodes are slightly lower in quality, does that really matter in the grand scheme of things?

A slight uptick/downtick in quality probably isn't noticeable by the average viewer (but note Community doesn't have many average viewers).

What would be missed is the incredibly weird and quirky episodes that it's become known for. The animated ones, the claymation ones, the parodies of movies and other shows, yada yada. There is nothing remotely close to what Community gives us every week. It's not always a winner, but it IS different. And (IMHO) it's usually very very good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainman

As is the case with all American sitcoms, it's not as if every single word of dialogue flowed directly from Dan Harmon's magic pen into the actors' mouths.

There's no reason to assume that the new showrunners will completely clean house, which means some of the writing staff from this past season will remain, and they should be completely capable of keeping up the quirkiness on their end.

So I'm willing to give next season's episodes the benefit of the doubt.

I think most of us are willing to give it a try. And as loyal viewers, we're praying it's close to what it was under Dan.

The top two writers left for a showrunner deal with FOX. The remaining head writer quit when they fired Dan. They're now down to the steno pool for fresh ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marksman

To me Community is one of the most unique sitcoms to exist in my lifetime.

To me Community is one of the most unique sitcoms to exist in my lifetime.

I agree. I just caught on to this show a few months ago. I have watched the entire series twice already (and probably going to zip through it a third time). I don't love every episode but I have to give them credit for doing something that is completely unique and pulling it off so well.

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Many members of the cast tweeted messages of support for Harmon today. It seems the main cast likes him. I do have to wonder about Glover's new song with lyrics saying he hopes the "show gets cancelled". No idea if that has anything to do with Harmon.

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The problem with a show like this is that there is nothing else like it on TV. It's damn near perfect in every way as far as I'm concerned. Losing the creator and show runner is a huge deal.

It doesn't seem that NBC wants to keep the show the same. I don't blame them. The ratings are terrible. I am actually glad it's only a 13 episode season. Hopefully they can just wrap things up and not ruin it.

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