If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

What it means is that trying to force Democracy on these Muslim nations is stupid and will cause more harm than good. Their beliefs hold that only God can set laws and man can not rule himself, but relying on this has lead to being easily duped into letting dictators run the countries. In other words only they can help themselves. And they will eventually learn, it will take time, but with the growing number of immigrants coming to their countries a change will come.

Coarse edged youth, the irish pendants string from their smiles
not yet plucked as to slacken the seams
and drag down the features of age,
no folds or creases from unkempt wear
eyes of tranquilty, crystalline-beads
no sign of despair in their hair, nor their hearts
but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

What it means is that trying to force Democracy on these Muslim nations is stupid and will cause more harm than good. Their beliefs hold that only God can set laws and man can not rule himself, but relying on this has lead to being easily duped into letting dictators run the countries. In other words only they can help themselves. And they will eventually learn, it will take time, but with the growing number of immigrants coming to their countries a change will come.

Boy, is that whats happening there? Really? Gosh-agorry manlicon thanks for sharing. Now show me something in the Koran that allows tyranny, no rights for woman, police and militarys being answerable to dictators,mullahs, and tyrants. Exactly what passage in the Koran calls for the torture of human beings for their political beliefs? Where does it call for the persecution of anyone who practices a different religion? For keeping slaves? For the forced marriage and rape of pubescent girls? For the genocide of brother muslims because their skin is black? For the support of terrorist organizations that murder helpless children and woman?

Well heres a newsflash pal, Ive been in some of these countries, and Ive read the Koran, and it makes no allowances for any of this. Indeed in the middle ages, while the Europeans were cooking each other at the stake, the Muslim world was at the center of education,religious freedom,tolerance, and human rights.

Heres what I think! I think its just a small cadre of tribal tyrants with their hands on the power and money and they dont want to share it with anyone. I think they only use religion to manipulate their unwashed masses and deceive American social Libertarians and great thinkers like you! This is a difficult concept for Americans to understand, because we are so empowered as individuals in this country. But in these various dictatorships,tyranny's, and mullah run fucking shitholes, if the 'individual" makes one wrong step the secret police will be thru your door at 0300 and drag you away for 1/2 a lifetime of torment, or more. Such society's have a low incidence of "heros" and very few opponents to a regime. Mostly they are in cemeteries and torture chambers.

And history has shown that such tribal monstrosities mostly change only when overthrown thru force of arms. "They" will never change on their own. If such regimes threaten us then we should remove them by force!

Im sorry but thats just the way it is.

While manlicon and I are often at each others throats, and it bring me great joy to be there, in a small part I have some admiration for great social thinkers and humanitarians like him. When I can figure out what the fuck they are talking about that is. It would be a better world if all respected life and human rights.

But it aint! And they don't! And we also need hard men & woman to make these decisions, and even harder men to carry them out. And we had better do it before these tyrants get to powerful.......................................... .take care...................Rich

What I was trying to convey was the empathy I feel towards the Muslims, they see this "Juggernaut" (as you like to say) headed towards them and they fear it, the natural reaction is to fight it. The conditioning of their minds from birth can't be flipped in a few month's and the best way to do it is by slowly spoon feeding pieces of democracy building from the inside out not the outside in.

Coarse edged youth, the irish pendants string from their smiles
not yet plucked as to slacken the seams
and drag down the features of age,
no folds or creases from unkempt wear
eyes of tranquilty, crystalline-beads
no sign of despair in their hair, nor their hearts
but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

Manlicon, these are tribal peoples, living under autocratic regimes, that feed them non-stop anti-American propaganda, mostly to divert from themselves their own failures to meet the needs of their citizens. Bread lines long? Blame the Jews! No jobs? Blame the Americans! Roads bad? Blame the Jewish Americans! War lost? Guess who they blame?

It would be reckless to underestimate the impact such non-stop propaganda has. Just look at what it did to a cultured and educated nation like Germany 70 years ago. And add to it the already non-stop anti-American "world" media, then add to that the nitwit anti-American "American" media.

And nobody is going to "spoon feed" anyone. Just look at the recent crushing of the democratic movement in Iran. The only "spoon feeding" we did in Afghanistan was thru the bomb bays of B-1b bombers. If we hadn't the Taliban would probably still be there for the rest of our lifetimes. If we hadn't invaded Iraq nobody would have ever overthrown Saddam. Serbia would still berapeing and pillaging. The entire Korean peninsula would be enslaved.The Nazis would still be in. The rising sun would be ruling all Asia. And last, the whole world would be ruled by a vicious Politburo. If free peoples hadn't made a stand against these monsters all of them would still be in power, "if they didnt cannibalize themselves".That is the nature of dictatorships, their first rule of survival is their own survival in power. Any opposition is crushed. You saw what happened to "people power" inTieneman square.

They only "fear" and "hate" us because theyv been told to. They are tribal peoples who have "hateing" and "vendettas" embedded in their culture. They have a very narrow scope into the outside world, which is mostly formed by Govt. controlled media. Even their religion is used as a controlling tool. That rotten House of Saud made a pact with the devil when they agreed with the Wahhabis to foster and export Islamic Fundamentalism in return for they not to challenge the House of Saud.

But the truth is they have three hearts. One that is shown to the outside world and Govt. watchers, one they reserve only for their closest friends and family, and the last only they know. We in America only see their first one Manlicon, and it would be a mistake to draw conclusions from it.

Whereas we in America say whatever the hell we want and dont give a rats ass what anyone thinks......take care..................Rich

Having been in the middle east, I say we wear an iron fist and take control. Damn what Europe has to say about it. Fullajah wouldn't even be on the map if I were calling the shots. Shrine? It isn't a shrine to me. It's a local shithole with a bunch of terrorist in it. I say blow the damn thing up.

These guys claim to be holy, but having been given a Koran while there (and read it) these guys are doing almost EVERYTHING it says not to.

Having been in the middle east, I say we wear an iron fist and take control. Damn what Europe has to say about it. Fullajah wouldn't even be on the map if I were calling the shots. Shrine? It isn't a shrine to me. It's a local shithole with a bunch of terrorist in it. I say blow the damn thing up.

These guys claim to be holy, but having been given a Koran while there (and read it) these guys are doing almost EVERYTHING it says not to.

To quote a line from one of my favorite movies:

"Look at meee. I got a wooden spoon".

Stir that pot baby, stir it up.

They use their form of government as a resource to enrich themselves and control the people the same as crooked politicians do in any other country ... including ours.

Unfortunatly for them they just happen to be standing on our oil while they do it.