Friday, July 8, 2011

We’ve received questions this week about TSA’s screening procedures for hair after news reports today on this topic. As we’ve said many times before, TSA does not profile. It just doesn’t make good security sense.

In this case, it was reported in the news that a passenger went through imaging technology and additional screening was necessary to resolve an anomaly. As is the case with all imaging technology screening, the officer viewing the image is in a separate location and cannot see the passenger being screened when determining whether he or she needs a pat-down. For example, in this image you can see for yourself there is no way to profile based on a person’s appearance. TSA has zero tolerance for profiling.

Anybody who travels through our checkpoints may undergo additional screening if necessary to resolve alarms or anomalies. This could include additional screening of clothing, headwear or hair. These are all places where dangerous items can be hidden and our policies are in place to keep the traveling public safe.

If you’d like to comment on an unrelated topic you can do so in our Off Topic Comments post. You can also view our blog post archives or search our blog to find a related topic to comment in. If you have a travel related issue or question that needs an immediate answer, you can contact a Customer Support Manager at the airport you traveled, or will be traveling through by using Talk to TSA.

I know. Run your hands though some stranger's hair on the bus today, and tell them you want to make sure they're not carrying anything in their hair that would endanger the other people on the bus. Then, when you get out of jail or the hospital, call me and tell me how it went.

I read where the passenger in question said that there were other women around her that weren't being patted down. Did she actually witness them go through AIT screening to ensure they weren't patted down? Of course not. She just wanted to make a big deal out of nothing. I have shorter hair that I wear in a ponytail and I have had my head patted down before - no big deal. And, no, I don't think I was patted down because of my race. What an absolutely absurd complaint - there is no way to tell what race a person is. Put the race card up lady, it's of no use here.

seems more like TSA makes up procedures as it goes along. Get it through your head Bob and pass this on. Nothing you say is going to make the TSA look good or exonerate it. You either uphold the Bill of Rights or you don't. Another question, is "bob not the blogger" and "justsayin" Federal plants or TSO's monitoring this blog to rebuke those critical of DHS/TSA?

Get your germy hands out of our hair! Don't you guys get it yet? WE DON'T WANT YOU TO TOUCH US! The only time we should ever be touched is if law enforcement has been called because there is reasonable belief that we have broken the law and that we will be charged with a crime. We could care less if there's a keister bomber on our plane. We'll handle it just like we have in the past.

Your agency has not made us any safer, you've made us less safe. I will NOT be sheeple. I will not fly while you still insist on groping me and scanning me. I'll do everything I can to continue to expose your charades. Bob, go read some of mainstream comments out there on big news sites. Your agency is universally hated domestically and on foreign shores. Proud of that? As an American, I'm not. I'm ashamed my tax dollars are paying for this theater.

Nice "no answer." Soon you will get to pubic hair too, and body cavity searches -- after all, they "could be in the interest of safety too!" People, write to your representatives and get rid of TSA, this is the most oppressive agency in the history of our country (and it will solve a part of our budget crisis too)! Even George Orwell could not come up with TSA in his wildest dreams!

Bob, can you please stop talking about what is "good security sense?" In my entire life, I have never seen an organization with LESS common sense than the TSA. Old lady with a soggy diaper? She must be trying to hide a weapon, right? 6-year-old that wiggles during screening? This Must be resolved! Mentally handicapped kid with a toy hammer? That toy will not fly on my watch!How about giving your TSO's the ability to use their eyes and brains to determine that this old lady, this little girl, and this handicapped boy aren't really a threat to any airplane. That would make "good security sense."

"For example, in this image you can see for yourself" the VERY large gaps in the scanner coverage at the periphery of the individual.

You can however see the back of the man's scrotum as well as discern if he is a boxer or briefs type. Which, when I'm worried about the safety of my flight, is the first thing I ponder about other passengers.

The only utility those machines have are as an excuse to pay off some very expensive contract to a very committed political supporter.

Why doesn't the TSA do something constructive like search your employees clothing to retreive stolen passenger property? (e.g iPads) Since it's obvious your leadership never tells you, most average law-abiding Americans don't trust your organization. Therefore, law-abiding Americans do not want you touching them or their property. The thought requires a bit of simple logic; hopefully you can understand.

As always, Bob, you and your agency remain too bloody stupid to realize that the problem with your strip-search technology -- aside from the clear health risks you've lied about, of course -- is that they're so oversensitive they think EVERYTHING is an "anomaly." Not one of the anomalies you've found has been anything dangerous, because so few people are trying to get anything dangerous on planes. As a result, all you're doing is groping cancer victims, leaving ostomy bag users covered in their own urine and feces, stripping dying women of their adult diapers, and poking people's hair for absolutely no reason.

All of this at enormous cost in time, money, and the violated dignity of people guilty of nothing but buying a plane ticket.

Its about time that TSA DID profile. Of the passengers profiled in newark... which resulted in some people facing discipline... i wonder how many were later arrested or deported?

Applying the same screening to everyone makes no sense. Some people represent a larger threat than others, and it can be determined pretty quickly who fits in that category just by looking in their passports and seeing where theyve spent time... Then again, you need people that are halfway educated in order to effectively make that sort of judgement.

I realize in the wake of 9/11 TSA needed as many bodies to fill positions as fast as possible... and they got them... but the number of people flying is down... take advantage of the time you now have to better vet who your hiring... and take a look at some of the people you already have hired... Start by doing a thourough background like CBP and every other law enforcement agency does... increase the standards for education for candidates...require at least a 2 year degree. Half the people that work at the airport here are about 70 years old, overweight and prior to TSA spent 25 years stocking shelves at a grocery store or working at mcdonalds. Improve the quality of the people you hire, hire smarter, younger, sharper people and i guarantee you youll be able to do things that you just cant do with the current workforce.

Theyll be smart enough to use their own discretion and common sense and screen passengers based on how much risk they pose, instead of spending just as much time on a 95 year old woman from iowa as they do on a 23 year old male from yemen. That approach is ineffective and inefficient.

Derek said "Well, we can't actually comment on what you can tell from appearance, since you've blurred out the face/head of the subject." Wow, so you can tell the race of a person by looking at his face? You must be some sort of genius or psychic or something. Maybe you have supernatural powers!

As for your "saved images" comment, that picture was probably just a sample used for illustrative purposes, and not an actual passenger.

Anonymous said...You hate the way this country is run.......LEAVE!!!!July 9, 2011 12:50 PM

"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world - "No, you move."" - Captain America, in Amazing Spider-Man #537

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

TSA has a reading comprehension problem. I bet if the TSA went away, not only would security remain the same or better, but the economy would rebound almost overnight!

If you must fly, tell your abuser as he or she runs his fingers through your hair, "Only my lover has touched my hair just this way. And now you." It's important to confront these traitors with the truly disgusting nature of their harassment. Don't let your groper off easy.

As for me, I won't allow a complete stranger to disrespect and physically abuse me this way. Touching a person's hair is fraught with sexual or paternalistic meaning, and you must have absolutely no self-worth if you would allow such mistreatment. I fly Amtrak.

"So you can't tell the difference between a Chinese man, an African man, a Mexican man and an English man by looking at his face - are you blind?"

How can you tell that the Asian person is Chinese? Perhaps he/she is Korean, Japanese, Mongolian, Thai, etc. How do you know that the Mexican man is Mexican and not Brazilian, Costa Rican, Cuban, rtc. and on and on and on

Hmm.....Are these the imagaes that "don't show anything anatomical"? If they are, then whoever said that is blind. You can see more than what I think should be seen by a total stranger, especially when there is more and more being admitted of what it doesn't detect.

Oh, and by the way. I thought these machines didn't save pictures......

More and more I'm believing this is nothing more than a power trip.

Sad that all people are treated this way at airports because this government is too damned pc to profile. Oh...wait a minute...I'm handicapped and I get profiled. But profiling doesn't make sense. Guess it depends on who you're profiling.......

RB said... Bob, I have a question about the Strip Search Machine image you provided in this thread.

Is this image exactly the same as those images seen by TSA employees operating the Strip Search Machine and is it Backscatter Xray or Millimeter Wave?

I love how, because of media hype and/or ignorance of how the TSA operates, some people make the assumption that TSA workers somehow enjoy touching passengers and seeing their body scan images. Well folks, that couldn't be further than the truth.

Perhaps you may remember a certain individual known as the 'underwear bomber' who tried to blow up a plane with an improvised device in his underwear???

This is why body scanners are now in place.

This is why pat downs are now in place.

Folks, you have a choice: you can follow the herd who make decisions based on sensationalized stories in the media and unfounded comments, or make informed decisions and conclude that the TSA is here to protect us passengers from harm.

I have a suggestion for the TSA to put the imaging technology to good use. The TSA can scan and pat-down their own workforce after completing their work day. Based on the recent news cycles, the TSA could rid society of at least one criminal each week.

So, I flew out of Seattle the other day. And my personal belonging were outside my line of vision for over 10 minutes because of what a mess security is there. Anyone could have walked up and stolen my belongings in that time, as no one was paying enough attention to stop it from happening. I thought you were allowed to keep an eye on your belongings while they are screened? Also, in that time, someone decided to take my shoes out of the bin. So, either TSA found my shoes suspicious, and not the electronics in my bag which were held together with lots of electrical taps?! or someone considered stealing my shoes during that time but dropped them on the belt beside the bin when they discovered they didn't fit. Great job, TSA! Either way, you made me feel *so* much safer!

My post has now been deleted twice, despite no violation of board rules. I stated that the only person who runs their fingers through my hair is my lover. This kind of action is much too intimate to be a part of airport security.

Why are you afraid to post this? Too true? Touch a nerve? Or is the word "lover" too strong for you?

Everyone who reflexively complains about "profiling" keeps making the assertion and never backs it up with anything real. "Oh, it just does!!"

Balderdash. Profiling is a means of winnowing the "possible suspect" pool by known and rational criteria so that the police aren't required to search everyone.

When there is a crime committed by a white male in his early 20s with close-cropped hair, the most basic form of profiling says "don't look at middle-aged black males, and leave the women alone". Right?

Of course I am.

If there is a crime where the perpetrator is unknown, like say, embezzlement, who do the cops start questioning? Those with access to the company books? or the janitorial service? Profiling suggests the first. If there is a spate of office burglary instead of embezzlement ... check the latter.

To the degree that we are at risk from ideological nitwits attempting to join Che Gueverra and the Castro boys in Cuba to further the People's Revolution who want to "fly this plane to Cuba", it's pretty much guaranteed that you're going to be looking at young, white college boys. To the degree that we are at risk from ideological nitwits attempting to join their seventy-some-odd virgins in paradise, you are looking for radicalized muslims.

And to the degree that radicalized muslims subcontract out this work to strangers ... that is just paranoia, and doesn't merit a response beyond "...and how's that medication working forya?"

"Profiling" is a means of investigation; it is not a conviction. Learn what you're talking about before talking, please.

Impertinent. First of all "asian" is mincing terminology that refuses to distinguish between widely disparate ethnographic populations. Because some people used *a certain word* to be rude, therefore no one can use it anymore ... and it is very useful. PC is stupid.

Secondly, you are desperate to miss the point. The point is: there are broad physiological distictions that are indicative of their ethnic source. Deny it all you want, but it's true.

That's because you people are IDIOTS, totalitarian statists, and PC promoters. You allow young Nigerian males with no proper ID pass through while you're busy feeling up 90 year old women and 6 year old kids from middle America.

Amazingly enough, Israel "profiles" without having to grope their citizens and their security system runs circles around yours. EVERYONE knows that the reason you don't "profile" is political correctness and nothing else. You are not fooling anyone. Tyrants always try to hide the taking of freedoms in the disguise of security.

Free peoples will not put up with this usurpation of their freedoms much longer. Bob - you and the TSA, and those who support it, are nothing but enablers of tyranny.

I have not come across any press articles about TSA hair procedures recently. However, I did read months ago about a women who felt violated when a TSA agent gave her an intense pat down while stroking her hair.

Several days ago, a TSA employee was arrested in Florida for stealing aprox. $50,000 in electronics. The person was finally caught...by an airline employee. Why has this not been addressed on this blog? What is the explaination?

Today I read that a stun gun made it through TSA security and was found (by an airline employee) on a Jet Blue plane.

Hey TSA blog. I'm watching Martin bashir right now. He just said that vendors and their products aren't screened when they go through air ports and that airport employees aren't screened. I used to work at a souvenir shop in an airport and I always had to go through security and I had to put all my merchandise through as well. Please address this wildly inaccurate statement on the news before the lie takes root.

Anonymous said... I have not come across any press articles about TSA hair procedures recently. However, I did read months ago about a women who felt violated when a TSA agent gave her an intense pat down while stroking her hair.

Several days ago, a TSA employee was arrested in Florida for stealing aprox. $50,000 in electronics. The person was finally caught...by an airline employee. Why has this not been addressed on this blog? What is the explaination?

Today I read that a stun gun made it through TSA security and was found (by an airline employee) on a Jet Blue plane.

Yes, Anonymous, it's true......the TSA's the only organization in the world that has a few bad apples working for them.

That's because you people are IDIOTS, totalitarian statists, and PC promoters. You allow young Nigerian males with no proper ID pass through while you're busy feeling up 90 year old women and 6 year old kids from middle America.

Amazingly enough, Israel "profiles" without having to grope their citizens and their security system runs circles around yours. EVERYONE knows that the reason you don't "profile" is political correctness and nothing else. You are not fooling anyone. Tyrants always try to hide the taking of freedoms in the disguise of security.

Free peoples will not put up with this usurpation of their freedoms much longer. Bob - you and the TSA, and those who support it, are nothing but enablers of tyranny.------------------------------------

I wholeheartedly agree! It is absolutely ridiculous to stand by and watch decent white people be subjected to "tyrannical" "statist" policies. If we really cared about the state of our democracy we would only subject certain minorities to these procedures. Then I suppose that it wouldn't be "tyrannical" at all. After all, it would be other people who had to go through humiliating, nonsensical procedures. Problem solved!

Just one question: would your proposed "profile" include British citizens with a white mother and a Jamaican father named "Richard Reid?" Would it include all people from Africa? Or just Muslims? If we were profiling for Muslims, how would we confirm that they were in fact Muslim? I suppose we would need a massive bureaucratic apparatus to investigate who may have converted to Islam, which doesn't sound at all "tyrannical" or "statist" to me. No, not at all.

Newsflash: in statistical terms the odds that a given Muslim male and a given white grandmother are attempting an attack on commercial aviation are more or less equal-- somewhere above zero but nearly high enough for the TSA's policies to make any sense whatsoever.

But I'm so glad that our democracy has defenders like you who are so willing to jettison the rights of others.

JustSayin said:"Perhaps you may remember a certain individual known as the 'underwear bomber' who tried to blow up a plane with an improvised device in his underwear???

This is why body scanners are now in place. "

Yes, approximately one year after the attempted bombing, the TSA started to implement the whole body scanners. The scanners are easily spoofed as detailed by the inventors of the technology.

"This is why pat downs are now in place."

I've never been patted down and I never go through metal detectors, not the x-ray machines. Want to try again?

"Folks, you have a choice: you can follow the herd who make decisions based on sensationalized stories in the media and unfounded comments, or make informed decisions and conclude that the TSA is here to protect us passengers from harm."

I only make informed decisions. The TSA is here to justify a large, mostly unskilled workforce. It conducts security theater. It is a threat to our liberties. It must be stopped.

I realize you're a TSA employee, JustSayin but don't you understand that a majority of the American public does not like its treatment at the hands of the TSA?

Anonymous said...Why was my post deleted?? I did not violate blog rules. I just stated, as is a fact, that only my lover puts his hands through my hair, and such an intimate gesture has no place in airport security.

Because Blogger Bob and his team have a new tactic for approving posts around here.... they are approving posts out of order. Posts that you submitted are being approved later but still showing in the original order of submission. This gives the appearance of posts not being approved because your original comment appears much later and much higher up in the conversation.

If the US government stopped causing trouble all around the world there would be no need for the TSA, because no one would want to bomb our planes... If only that was what the TSA was about, rather than its real purpose of helping create the police state - it's not about controlling terrorists, it's about controlling We The People!

JustSayin said... RB said... Bob, I have a question about the Strip Search Machine image you provided in this thread.

Is this image exactly the same as those images seen by TSA employees operating the Strip Search Machine and is it Backscatter Xray or Millimeter Wave?

I love how, because of media hype and/or ignorance of how the TSA operates, some people make the assumption that TSA workers somehow enjoy touching passengers and seeing their body scan images. Well folks, that couldn't be further than the truth.

............Just saying responded to my post asking Bob if the Strip Search Image provided in this thread was exactly the same as seen by TSA screeners although that question was not addressed in any way and went on talk about how TSA employees enjoy feeling up little girls and boys.

JustSaying, why not try answering the question?

Also, GAO has stated that WBI Strip Search Machines would likely not have been able to detect the Underwear Bomber so this expensive screening equipment is another waste of tax monies by TSA.

Seems our choice is to be electronically Stripped of our Clothes or have a TSA Screener feel up our genitals.

blogger bob has left the building. No excuses for the complete failure of the TSA to do anything but steal from passengers and humiliate law abiding citizens while allowing foreigners to travel on expired boarding passes that aren't in their name? What a pathetic excuse for security. But Heh! now they will be unionized (after a minority of employees voted for the union) and that will make them sooooo much more efficient..at humiliation and theft. They won't even receive "proposed termination" letters when they steal. A minimum level of incompetence and theft is in every government union contract right? Dismantle the TSA!

JustSayin, you said: "Folks, you have a choice: you can follow the herd... or make informed decisions and conclude that the TSA is here to protect us passengers from harm."

Here is an informed decision for you. You know how they say that "The lottery is a tax on people who can't do math?" Well, the TSA is SECURITY for people who can't do math. In the decade before 9-11 (which, you might recall used only metal detectors and wanding- reasonable measures that many of us are pushing the TSA to return to), there were only 1.4 airline deaths per 10 million passengers. Remember, during most of this time, Al Qaida has already declared war on the US. Compare that to the number of automobile deaths per 10 million passengers. In other words, even if there was no security, let alone some reasonable security that doesn't involve naked imagery, you are in much more danger of dying DRIVING TO WORK, than of being taken out of the sky by some one-in-a-billion underwear bomb. This idea that without the TSA, planes would be dropping out of the sky is ridiculous.Do the math and stop being afraid.

Regarding the news today: there have been 25,000+ breaches in airline security since TSA took over.

Rep. Chaffetz made an excellent point today. He said that the most effective detector of contraband is DOGS not body scanners. (A point that so many of us have argued for here in the comment secition of the blog.) As to why we have scanners and not dogs: The scanner-manufacturers have LOBBYISTS the dogs don't.

"So you don't fly anymore, but spend your time on a site about flying.

Thanks for the laugh!"

Yes, JustSayin' that's what we do. You seem to fail to understand that while we have stopped flying we would like to fly again one day. The only way we can ensure we can fly without being molested, humiliated, mistreated, it so continue to speak out against the TSA and their practices. We need to be heard. We want action. I've been sitting here in my home city, cancelling buisness trip after buisness trip because of the TSA. Luckily my HR department won't force us to fly; theyr'e afraid of the HR nightmare should one of us be assaulted by the TSA AGAIN.

The only way I can object is through the media and to a stupid blog that the TSA pays no attention to anyway. But hey, maybe it's still worth the effort. At least several media outlets point to it through links.

So you can drop the line about why we sit here complaining. It has a purpose, you're just being a bit too obtuse to see it.

Anonymous said... Regarding the news today: there have been 25,000+ breaches in airline security since TSA took over.

Rep. Chaffetz made an excellent point today. He said that the most effective detector of contraband is DOGS not body scanners. (A point that so many of us have argued for here in the comment secition of the blog.) As to why we have scanners and not dogs: The scanner-manufacturers have LOBBYISTS the dogs don't.

I think he hit the nail right on the head.

July 13, 2011 6:08 PM

Airports DO have dogs. In fact, did you know that LAX just got a brand new, state of the art crew of K9s that can sniff out bombs from MOVING TARGETS for up to 15 min since they passed???

That is the first thing you've said, JS, that I will whole-heartedly agree with.

They do have a hard job, but it's not the one you [and they] think it is.

[[...and have done spectacular with keeping America safe since 9/11.]]

Safe? No, that's not their job. "Distracted" is their job. Far too many people equate being harassed and annoyed with "effective government policy". In reality, it is simply being harassed and annoyed.

[[They deserve recognition.]]

We recognize them for what they are. That's what you [and they] have trouble understanding.

The TSA forced my 92 year old grandmother (bubbe) to get out of her wheelchair and walk through the metal detector UNASSISTED. This lady cannot walk without a cane or walker. They would not allow her to use each. Finally I convinced them to allow me to hold her hand halfway through, then someone on the other side held her hand the rest of the way. Then they made her lean against the x-ray machine for support (not allowing the walker once past the detector), while they scrutinized every inch of the AIRPORT PROVIDED wheelchair. Where do these people come from?

In fact, did you know that LAX just got a brand new, state of the art crew of K9s that can sniff out bombs from MOVING TARGETS for up to 15 min since they passed???

Reason #341 to be grateful for the TSA!!!

The TSA has nothing to do with these dogs.

The program was paid for by the L.A. Police Foundation. The dogs form a critical new layer of security. "This is a first program of its kind. I have no doubt that other airports are going to start adopting this model nationwide," said LAX Police Chief George Centeno.

Airports DO have dogs. In fact, did you know that LAX just got a brand new, state of the art crew of K9s that can sniff out bombs from MOVING TARGETS for up to 15 min since they passed???________________Good! Excellent! Now let's get the body scanners and invasive patdowns without just cause OUT of our airports.

JustSayin said...Anonymous said:I realize you're a TSA employee, JustSayin but don't you understand that a majority of the American public does not like its treatment at the hands of the TSA?

I'm a frequent traveler with nothing but respect for TSA officers. They have a hard job, and have done spectacular with keeping America safe since 9/11.

They deserve recognition.

You must not hate them that much, Anonymous, since you keep supporting the site with your visits!

------------------------------

Just Sayin'

If you consider accurately matching the name printed on an ID card and the name printed on a boarding pass to be a "hard job," I would really, really love to hear what you think an easy job might look like?

In fact, did you know that LAX just got a brand new, state of the art crew of K9s that can sniff out bombs from MOVING TARGETS for up to 15 min since they passed???

Reason #341 to be grateful for the TSA!!!

The TSA has nothing to do with these dogs.

The program was paid for by the L.A. Police Foundation. The dogs form a critical new layer of security. "This is a first program of its kind. I have no doubt that other airports are going to start adopting this model nationwide," said LAX Police Chief George Centeno.

July 14, 2011 4:17 PM

Of course it has to do with the TSA. The TSA works with both local and federal law enforcement to help keep America safe.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Anonymous said... "Regarding the news today: there have been 25,000+ breaches in airline security since TSA took over."

so nine years is 3285 days. lets say there have been 32850 breaches in those 9 years, thats 10 a day, im not sure how many tsa airports there, lets say 100 (prob more). so thats .10 breaches a day for over 1.6 million fliers a day. going by very crude yet accurate numbers id say thats pretty good.

Peterson's family said it's not just the length of the search they object to, it's the way it was done.

"She said it would be in-depth. She started the putdown(sic), and at that point, she asked mom to spread her legs. She stood there with her legs spread and she checked every place thoroughly," said Malone.

"They groped her. All of her body. Her crotch, her breasts. And everything else," said son Joe Peterson.

...............

I have to wonder just how you TSA people can go home at the end of your day and look your family in the face knowing that you're feeling up 94 year old ladies and 6 year old children on a regular basis.

Anonymous said... Anonymous said... "Regarding the news today: there have been 25,000+ breaches in airline security since TSA took over."

so nine years is 3285 days. lets say there have been 32850 breaches in those 9 years, thats 10 a day, im not sure how many tsa airports there, lets say 100 (prob more). so thats .10 breaches a day for over 1.6 million fliers a day. going by very crude yet accurate numbers id say thats pretty good.

July 15, 2011 7:13 AM

............So if just one terrorist attack was successful from one of those breeches would you say that was pretty good too?

[[Of course it has to do with the TSA. The TSA works with both local and federal law enforcement to help keep America safe.]]

You're stretching, JS. Are you Elastic Man? Do you wear tights and a cape?

According to the 21 Layers® paradigm, passengers are an integral part of the TSA "security" model. So does this mean that when passengers took down Reid, it was really TSA who did it? and that when passengers took down Abdulmuttalab, it was really TSA who did it?

Exactly how ludicrous a defense of TSA ineptitude are you willing to be seen promoting, here?

Anonymous said... Anonymous said... "Regarding the news today: there have been 25,000+ breaches in airline security since TSA took over."

so nine years is 3285 days. lets say there have been 32850 breaches in those 9 years, thats 10 a day, im not sure how many tsa airports there, lets say 100 (prob more). so thats .10 breaches a day for over 1.6 million fliers a day. going by very crude yet accurate numbers id say thats pretty good.

This is terrific news for the TSA! Now with the awareness of some flaws in the system, the TSA can work on improving those flaws for truly maximum security on all ends.

Anonymous said..."Regarding the news today: there have been 25,000+ breaches in airline security since TSA took over."

so nine years is 3285 days. lets say there have been 32850 breaches in those 9 years, thats 10 a day, im not sure how many tsa airports there, lets say 100 (prob more). so thats .10 breaches a day for over 1.6 million fliers a day. going by very crude yet accurate numbers id say thats pretty good.

~~~~~~~~~~

So following the math out to a potentially illogical conclusion , you would have 10 beaches of security per day for the entire system (keeping the numbers really simple per your example)

To use absolute worst-case thinking, that would be the same as allowing a potential September 11 style attack every day.

Yes, that is a huge over exaggeration and a completely unfair description of the state of Airline security today.

However!

The math does speak to the fact that even with the TSA trampling all over our Constitutional Rights are we really any safer now than we were before this whole mess got started?

The TSA has to get it right every single time, the Terrorists (if they are out there still) only have to get it right once.

The TSA has not been able to demonstrate that they can get it right even some of the time, let alone every time, so couldn't we spend the money for TSA somewhere else more effective?

A federal appeals court says the public should have the opportunity to tell the U.S. government what it thinks about full body imaging machines used in airports around the country.________________________I'm officially telling the U.S. government how I feel about full body imaging machines...

GET THEM OUT OF OUR AIRPORTS. I feel violated by them. I feel that they aren't effective deterrents to terrorism. I feel that they infringe on my rights as a citizen. I feel that they strip me of my dignity.

Any other questions, TSA?_______________

Please take the time today to email the TSA, the White House and your Congresspeople to let them know how you feel about full body scanners in airports.

@Anon: "so nine years is 3285 days. lets say there have been 32850 breaches in those 9 years, thats 10 a day, im not sure how many tsa airports there, lets say 100 (prob more). so thats .10 breaches a day for over 1.6 million fliers a day. going by very crude yet accurate numbers id say thats pretty good."

Problem is, Anon, TSA tries to have it both ways with numbers. On one hand, when it's something that makes them look bad, they dismiss it as "isolated", "a few bad apples®" or an insignificant number compared to how many people fly per day. Fine enough. In that case, TSA needs to admit that the one offs like the underwear bomber, 9/11, the liquid bombers, are much less likely to happen than the daily breaches and treat them accordingly.

If the small number is going to be used to downplay something, a small number can't be used to justify something when it suits TSA.

re: 25,000+ security breaches: "id say thats pretty good."___________________You think 25,000+ weapons making it onto U.S. flights is PRETTY GOOD? And we the taxpayers have paid $50-$60 billion dollars for that kind of a result?

I sure don't agree with you.

I do have some empathy for John Pistole because I think he's being asked to do the impossible. BUT I think trying to scan and patdown every last traveler regardless of their risk level is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. I honestly feel like he couldn't have found a worse way to approach the problem.

I would go with the bomb-sniffing dogs coupled with metal detectors and hand-held wanding if something is detected in the walk-through detector. I honestly think those two layers of security alone would be more effective than the body scanners. Perhaps add to that some method of assessing passenger risk and give more thorough searches to high-risk individuals. (Look to the 9/11 bombers for examples of high-risk -- expired VISA's, showing up on terrorist watchlists, some of them were already being surveilled by the FBI, country of origin and frequent travel to countries that have terrorist training camps, etc.)

JustSayin said:"Well.......if you really dislike the TSA so much, why would you frequently visit the site???

That's like saying...you hate a person, but keep hanging around them!"

Actually, it's nothing like that at all.

"Thanks for the laugh...and the ongoing support of the TSA site!"

You're welcome - glad I could provide a laugh. You've identified yourself as a less than serious person so you're off the list of people I will read. Thanks for the hypocrisy!

I'm laughing at how Americans will mistreat others for a paycheck. I will continue to complain. here and elsewhere, about the unconstitutional and illicit activities of the TSA but you won't be part of the equation.

Ok, I guess few (if any) of you realize that those "breaches" include cars backing into fences and damaging them, animals intruding onto runways, holes in fences from storm damage, etc. etc.All of these things are counted in the "breaches" reports.

As are passengers picking up their bag before it gets thouroughly screened and walking a couple of feet into the SIDA area (then getting pulled back), unattended bags that are confiscated by the PD, etc.

VERY, VERY few are airport/TSA "breaches" of personnel who don't belong in the security area actually getting there or onto a plane.

But I guess it's easier to slam the TSA when you don't know all the facts.

A federal appeals court says the public should have the opportunity to tell the U.S. government what it thinks about full body imaging machines used in airports around the country.________________________I'm officially telling the U.S. government how I feel about full body imaging machines...

GET THEM OUT OF OUR AIRPORTS. I feel violated by them. I feel that they aren't effective deterrents to terrorism. I feel that they infringe on my rights as a citizen. I feel that they strip me of my dignity.

Any other questions, TSA?_______________

Please take the time today to email the TSA, the White House and your Congresspeople to let them know how you feel about full body scanners in airports.

Ok, I guess few (if any) of you realize that those "breaches" include cars backing into fences and damaging them, animals intruding onto runways, holes in fences from storm damage, etc. etc.All of these things are counted in the "breaches" reports.

As are passengers picking up their bag before it gets thouroughly screened and walking a couple of feet into the SIDA area (then getting pulled back), unattended bags that are confiscated by the PD, etc.

VERY, VERY few are airport/TSA "breaches" of personnel who don't belong in the security area actually getting there or onto a plane.

But I guess it's easier to slam the TSA when you don't know all the facts.

July 16, 2011 9:56 AM

..............So TSM, publish the complete document so we can see for ourselves these non-breeches you speak of.

A federal appeals court says the public should have the opportunity to tell the U.S. government what it thinks about full body imaging machines used in airports around the country.________________________I'm officially telling the U.S. government how I feel about full body imaging machines...

GET THEM OUT OF OUR AIRPORTS. I feel violated by them. I feel that they aren't effective deterrents to terrorism. I feel that they infringe on my rights as a citizen. I feel that they strip me of my dignity.

Any other questions, TSA?_______________

Please take the time today to email the TSA, the White House and your Congresspeople to let them know how you feel about full body scanners in airports.

A federal appeals court says the public should have the opportunity to tell the U.S. government what it thinks about full body imaging machines used in airports around the country.________________________I'm officially telling the U.S. government how I feel about full body imaging machines...

GET THEM OUT OF OUR AIRPORTS. I feel violated by them. I feel that they aren't effective deterrents to terrorism. I feel that they infringe on my rights as a citizen. I feel that they strip me of my dignity.

Any other questions, TSA?_______________

Please take the time today to email the TSA, the White House and your Congresspeople to let them know how you feel about full body scanners in airports.

The TSA has always reminded me of the Stanford prison experiment except that the prison experiment was stopped early... When you give ordinary people the ability to abuse others they start doing so... The abused are treated like criminals so they turn against their abusers... I suspect the escalations will continue such as the woman who fondled the TSA agent like she was being fondled... Eventually things will go too far and it will get really ugly..

Cognitive dissonance explains how the TSA works manipulating and inducing compliance...

Both committees have been indifferent to the arrogance and duplicity of Director Pistole in testimony, while he has lost all credibility with the public. He has proven incapable of managing this agency and should be replaced. In the same week he defended this agency for frisking a six year old girl in New Orleans, TSA were removing a diaper from a dying 95 year old woman in Florida and screeners in Houston and Los Angeles arrested for theft from passengers.Congress has permitted TSA to promote an agenda of passenger-focused paranoia without consideration for the realities of airline safety. Many experts have stated that there has been no increase in aircraft exposure since 2002 and that the current procedures and technology are no more than theater. In the past eight months, TSA has been plagued by reports of agent thefts, sex crimes, assaults, drug trafficking, security breaches, drug use and dereliction of duty. Over sixty screeners have been implicated in that brief time without one notable success to offset this abysmal record.http://www.travelunderground.org/index.php?pages/fisher-masterlist/TSA cites the 2009 “underwear bomber” as the basis for the need to implement the intrusive policies. However, ABC News reported that the terrorist's underwear contained 80 grams of the explosive PETN, which tests revealed could only make a small hole in the wall of an airplane and would not disable the aircraft or result in a crash.This ineffective focus on passengers has become both excessive and dangerous. Once cockpit doors were reinforced and pilots armed a terrorist could not gain control of a plane a repeat of 9/11 became impossible. A human is physically incapable of concealing enough explosive to bring down an airliner yet the focus of TSA remains on passengers while allowing 60% of cargo on airliners to go unscreened and remaining oblivious to threat of a ground based attack.

TSM said..."25K breaches....But I guess it's easier to slam the TSA when you don't know all the facts."

First, thank you for your candor in sharing information. It seems to be a rarity in your organization.

Which leads me to my response.... Yes it is easier to slam the TSA because too much of what the TSA does gets covered by the blanket of SSI. And what little does come out winds up being spin, or misdirection, or misreporting, or under/over reporting. Look at it from the Public side of this discussion:

TSA provided Security.There is a Security Breach.OMG! What are they doing, how can they allow this.

How are we supposed to know that you consider a car parking to close to something else to be a Security Breach?

How are we supposed to know that animals on the runway is considered a Security Breach. And why would that be considered a Security Breach anyway?

So until you as an Agency start to speak plainly and without claiming every little thing is SSI, we're going to slam everything you say because very little of what you have said is trustworthy.

My post has now been deleted twice, despite no violation of board rules. I stated that the only person who runs their fingers through my hair is my lover. This kind of action is much too intimate to be a part of airport security.

Why are you afraid to post this? Too true? Touch a nerve? Or is the word "lover" too strong for you?___________________________________Hey SMART GUY..... This is the 3rd time I am reading your annoying post! It was not erased!!!

Hey SMART GUY..... This is the 3rd time I am reading your annoying post! It was not erased!!!

The admins seem to approve posts both in a non-timely manner and not necessarily in the order they are submitted.

Some people have a theory that this is deliberately done to make certain posters look better (by posting their responses quickly), and to make certain posters look worse (delay posting someone's posts until they say "Hey! Why are my posts not showing up?", then approve all their posts, so they look crazy).

Anonymous said...1. In the same week he defended this agency for frisking a six year old girl in New Orleans, TSA were removing a diaper from a dying 95 year old woman in Florida

2. Many experts have stated that there has been no increase in aircraft exposure since 2002

3. ABC News reported that the terrorist's underwear contained 80 grams of the explosive PETN, which tests revealed could only make a small hole in the wall of an airplane and would not disable the aircraft or result in a crash.

4. Once cockpit doors were reinforced and pilots armed a terrorist could not gain control of a plane a repeat of 9/11 became impossible. ----------------------------------I broke up your post to clarify my responses1. In the same week the 95 year old lady "removed her own diaper", an eight year old girl was given a bag filled with explosives and asked to walk over to a security checkpoint in Afghanistan. upon arriving terrorists detonated the bomb. THEY WILL EXPLOIT ANY LOOP HOLE. it would be negligent if the TSA would ignore a known terrorist tactic. ( lnk http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-06-27/news/29731852_1_taliban-militants-police-checkpoint-suicide-attack

2. What an asinine comment. "only a small hole in the wall of an airplane". what size hole would it make in the guy sitting next to him? which brings me to my next point3. Many so-called experts agreed (before may,2)that OBL was dead or that he had little operational control over al-Qaeda, however we now know that was not true. The truth about "experts" is that they all have thier own agenda and often contradict each other.4. What if the "small amount of explosives" were used on the cockpit door? (keep in mind not all pilots are armed)

@Anon: "I broke up your post to clarify my responses1. In the same week the 95 year old lady "removed her own diaper", an eight year old girl was given a bag filled with explosives and asked to walk over to a security checkpoint in Afghanistan. upon arriving terrorists detonated the bomb. THEY WILL EXPLOIT ANY LOOP HOLE. it would be negligent if the TSA would ignore a known terrorist tactic. ( lnk http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-06-27/news/29731852_1_taliban-militants-police-checkpoint-suicide-attack "

Wow! Good thing we don't live in Afghanistan! Just how often do these things happen here in the US?

"2. What an asinine comment. "only a small hole in the wall of an airplane". what size hole would it make in the guy sitting next to him? which brings me to my next point"

Wouldn't make any in him if he didn't have the other stuff needed to detonate it.

"3. Many so-called experts agreed (before may,2)that OBL was dead or that he had little operational control over al-Qaeda, however we now know that was not true. The truth about "experts" is that they all have thier own agenda and often contradict each other."

Keep that in mind when citing intelligence to justify TSA's reason for doing X. A lot of those experts worked for the government. If you don't trust those experts, then it's all the more reason for the rest of us NOT to trust TSA given that they're even less competent than most of the government.

I've worked in "the business" for quite awhile. There's plenty of analyst bias out there ... trying to make facts fit preconceived conclusions rather than looking at things for what they really are. That bias is definitely alive and well at TSA.

"4. What if the "small amount of explosives" were used on the cockpit door? (keep in mind not all pilots are armed)"

And do you honestly think passengers would sit there and let someone do that? Many incidents have shown that it's very unlikely passengers will sit by when someone's trying to do something to the cockpit door.

A person doesn't need to be armed to deal with something.

"P.S. Ever heard of a paragraph?"

Given the poor formatting of your post, you're the last one that should be pointing stuff like that out. Physician, heal thyself.

Anonymous said... JustSayin said:"Well.......if you really dislike the TSA so much, why would you frequently visit the site???

That's like saying...you hate a person, but keep hanging around them!"

Actually, it's nothing like that at all.

"Thanks for the laugh...and the ongoing support of the TSA site!"

You're welcome - glad I could provide a laugh. You've identified yourself as a less than serious person so you're off the list of people I will read. Thanks for the hypocrisy!

I'm laughing at how Americans will mistreat others for a paycheck. I will continue to complain. here and elsewhere, about the unconstitutional and illicit activities of the TSA but you won't be part of the equation.

So what you're saying is: I'm off your list of people who you read......but only after this one.

Got it!

...and thanks again for your continued support of the TSA site. I love them, too!

JustSayin said..."Well.......if you really dislike the TSA so much, why would you frequently visit the site???...and thanks again for your continued support of the TSA site. I love them, too!"

I frequent this site to show opposition to the TSA. Failure to do so would be to, through neglect, show support of the TSA and their policies. I think the cliche is "Silence is Compliance."

I will not be silent.

And I will not be silenced.

I will continue to oppose the TSA, and its supporters, because I believe what is being done is not supported by any interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.

You can call my visits and contributions to the conversations here 'support' if you like, if that makes you feel better about me being here. And I encourage you to post positive comments and send letters of support to the TSA and your elected officials.

I will be doing neither.

I will be sending letters to my elected officials and doing everything I can to put a stop the TSA and its practices.

chip and andy said:"I will be sending letters to my elected officials and doing everything I can to put a stop the TSA and its practices."

so by doing "everything i can" does that mean that we should no take anything you say seriously, unless it involved alcohol, as your profile states. so does that mean that seeing as none of your posts involve alcohol that we should take you or you posts seriously. so then i shouldnt contact my reps about tsa? i pretty sure that the only people that my reps are listening too are their lobbyists incl mica.

I have been to Israel twice now in the past two years and in going through British, German and Israeli security there were no naked exposure machines and no invasive pat downs. Israeli security doesn't even require you to remove shoes. It seems to me they would have the greatest reason to have aggressive security screening methods, yet they seem to do fine on their low-impact screening. Why can't we ask them what they're doing and do that here?

My second comment is that a dear friend, a lady in her late 60's just went through the invasive pat down in Hawaii after going through the body scanner because there were "anomalies" in her stomach and breast area. Of course there was nothing there, but the agent reduced her to tears over what she said was "very invasive" touching and when she was told that even the pat down couldn't resolve the source of the anomalie, she would have to wait for another TSA agent to come and screen her, she pulled her top up and pants down (while the agent was saying it wasn't necessary) just to prove she wasn't concealing anything so she wouldn't miss her flight. My 33-year-old daughter has also been traumatized by the advanced pat down performed, we assume, because she was wearing a long skirt. She refuses to fly now.

I admit this is not an easy situation to resolve since the TSA is tasked with protecting us, but some people are more sensitive to being touched in very personal places by a stranger and it has the affect of making one feel like a criminal at best and violated in the case of my daughter and friend. I can't help thinking why can't we do what they do in Israel?

With all the expensive machinery and aggressive touching, I have to admit I don't feel any more secure than I did before. If someone is determined to smuggle explosives, can't they just hide them "where the sun doesn't shine?" And if someone does manage to do that, will we be subjected to anal and vaginal probes before we can fly?

Who has one of the best air safety records in the world? The Israelis. Why? Because they profile and it works. The TSA is in incompetent agency using dangerous screening technology (X-Ray scanners) and employs retarded employees that will pat down granny and the baby while a real terrorist could smuggle a nuclear warhead past them. Fire the TSA and hire competent private security.P.S. If you are reading this post, then I can say one positive thing about the TSA, that they don't censor their blogs. But I'll be shocked if I see this posted.

My hair was "patted down" today by a TSA agent. I am a black woman with curly hair. I asked the woman who did the pat down why it was necessary. She replied that they pat down hair that looks like "that" - she gestured towards my hair - or hair that is cornrowed, or braided. I felt terrible afterwards. I was profiled just because my hair was curly. I feel like my hair has been criminalized. Doesn't TSA realize that by patting down certain hairstyles, they are singling out a group of people. By this standard, most of the women I know would receive an extra pat down from TSA. And, trust me, none of us is a threat to national security.

TSA does not discriminate. At San Diego Airport, I was told to remove a plastic barrett that was holding my hair out of my face so that the agent could inspect it. I am white, and have shoulder length blond hair. By the way, it was a Walmart barrette.......

TSA is not biased. They will harass anyone. I was told, at San Diego Airport, to remove a small plastic barrette from my hair so the agent could inspect it. I am white and have shoulder length blond hair. In Denver IA, TSA physically abused both myself and my feral cat in a private room for 45 minutes. I suffered a head injury when a lamp fell over and broke on my head; the cat was terrified so badly she still won't allow anyone near her, and that was 3 months ago.

While the motivation may be prejudicially motivated, and the historical trends of racial profiling is documented, let's not rule out the possibility that the motivation was individual.Perhaps the agent works with a bunch of jerks, who think that she doesn't pick out enough hip, young black women with groovy hair to search. Maybe it was a group-dynamic thing...possibility. Thoughts? from: RichStine