I'm not posting this to start a religious debate. Just something to think about.

In hopes that all our college students are able to articulate this well. In a College classroom with a professor teaching a philosophy lesson....... 'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'
'Yes sir,' the student says.
'So you believe in God?' 'Absolutely.. '
'Is God good?'
'Sure! God's good.' 'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?' 'Yes'
'Are you good or evil?' 'The Bible says I'm evil.'
The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him.. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'
'Yes sir, I would.' 'So you're good...!'
'I wouldn't say that.'
'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.' The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'
The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'
'Er..yes,' the student says. 'Is Satan good?'
The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'
'Then where does Satan come from?' The student falters. 'From God'
'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'
'Yes, sir.' 'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'
'Yes' 'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'
Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'
The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'
'So who created them?' The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?' The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'
The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?' 'No sir.. I've never seen Him.'
'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?' 'No, sir, I have not.'
'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'
'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'
'Yet you still believe in him?'
'Yes'
'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'
'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'
'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'
The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'
' Yes.
'And is there such a thing as cold?' 'Yes, son, there's cold too.' 'No sir, there isn't.' The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'
Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.
'What about darkness, professor.. Is there such a thing as darkness?' 'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?' 'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?' The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'
'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.' The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'
'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains.. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor... Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'
'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'
'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'
The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.
'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'
The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?' Now the room is silent... The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'
'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.' To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.' The professor sat down.
The student was Albert Einstein.

Jan 24, 2010

dsonik1

Re: God Vs. Science

Nice.... :)

Jan 24, 2010

Boba Swede

Re: God Vs. Science

Quote:

dung0beetle said:

I
The student was Albert Einstein.

This sounds like one of those urban myths kinda thing... What is your source for this?

Jan 24, 2010

Boba Pat

Re: God Vs. Science

Even if it did turn out to be a myth, the story has some valid arguments. I would have probably sat and wet my self if confronted at that age, of course that was before I became a ruthless bounty hunter:fettrotj

Jan 24, 2010

dung0beetle

Re: God Vs. Science

If I told you the story was fictional, would it be less interesting or thought provoking?
What if the student were George W. Bush? or Paris Hilton? (ok, I couldn't even type with a straight face on that one)

Jan 24, 2010

Astro Builder

Re: God Vs. Science

The story is false, definitely an urban legend. A number on sites confirm this including the following:

That being said, I don't think the story is any less meaningful. I, for one, enjoyed reading it.

Jan 24, 2010

Fett 4 Real

Re: God Vs. Science

Well how about whos to say Christianity is even right about stuff? Just because it is written doesn't mean it is so. Theres so many religions out there, is it to provide order? Is it to provide faith for people to go on with life? Is it to make $? All that things the little story was talking about all depends on your definition of good and evil right and wrong, cold and hot, etc. Its a good read but no one can prove god exists and no one can prove god doesn't exist. I'd rather believe in myself, or family and friends, or my crew.

Jan 24, 2010

Gilmortar

Re: God Vs. Science

And this is why this topic is going to be locked soon.

Guys no one is telling you that you have to believe in something or another. Freedom of religion means just that for a reason.

But this is what happens, no matter what, when someone posts something containing any religious aspect.

Jan 24, 2010

Darth Mule

Re: God Vs. Science

Sadly the student's argument is terribly flawed. Even if cold and darkness are absences of other things, they still exist as a tangible concept, while The existence of a higher power which he is relating the argument to, remains intangible. Darkness, for example, exists not on faith, but on the name we associate with the absence of light. This argument has more to do with semantics and the relationship between sign and signifier than it does with the concept of existence.

I don't even find it to be an enlightening or intelligent argument. It's more of an attempt at clever propaganda than anything which is why (I believe) it crosses the line on religious discussion rules. When it comes to politics and religion, even something religiously tinged, people tend to get their dander up. Best to just steer clear of it altogether.

FYI - Einstein was not religious. Though he stated he did not accept the term "atheist."

Jan 24, 2010

MaulMaus

Re: God Vs. Science

Locking this one down guys....

Per TDH Code of Conduct:

RELIGION AND POLITICS
Any discussion regarding politics/religion or political/religious beliefs is prohibited.