[QUOTE=Morehead State;516768]
And as for Romney's "5 trillion dollar tax cut" that Obama claims.......Romney has NEVER said he would cut taxes by $5 trillion. He said that he would reduce rates by 20% and offset that with elimination of loopholes and deductions for the wealthy.
QUOTE]

You do realize that by reducing rates by 20% youre already adding to the deficit, right? In fact it would *gasp* cut $5trillion in revenue!! =O
I'd like to know how tax loopholes are going to add that much money to counter. No really, do we have examples yet?

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 01:28 PM

I'm white, and i hate white people. lol
But we love ya right back!

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 01:33 PM

[QUOTE=Morehead State;516768]
And as for Romney's "5 trillion dollar tax cut" that Obama claims.......Romney has NEVER said he would cut taxes by $5 trillion. He said that he would reduce rates by 20% and offset that with elimination of loopholes and deductions for the wealthy.
QUOTE]

You do realize that by reducing rates by 20% youre already adding to the deficit, right? In fact it would *gasp* cut $5trillion in revenue!! =O
I'd like to know how tax loopholes are going to add that much money to counter. No really, do we have examples yet?
That is false. What Romney has proposed is a reduction of tax RATES by 20%. Not "taxes" by 20%. He understands that the key to growth is a reduction of rates and deductions. In other words...a less complex tax code. We all know that all investment decisions are based on the consideration of the highest tax rate you pay. This will free up investors to stop buying things like gold and actually put those 2 trillion dollars now on the sidelines into our economy. It also caused folks to make sound economic decisions and not make decisions based on tax advantages.
This is absolutely key to economic growth. Its what all emerging economies are doing in eastern Europe and South America. We, however are living in last Century's world. That doesn't work now.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 01:37 PM

And weren't you at the Yankee game? When did you watch the debate?

I literally just said that CNN had the unnarated debate playing all night to recap.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 01:40 PM

But we love ya right back!

That's because everybody loves me. I'm not surprised.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 01:43 PM

That's because everybody loves me. I'm not surprised.
Its important to me that you believe that.
So..........OK!

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 01:44 PM

Its important to me that you believe that.
So..........OK!

lol

Imgrate

10-04-2012, 01:45 PM

Presidential candidates can "get away" with saying things because they all have some great plan for the middle class, when the "middle class" can define so many people. And I guarantee you that both candidates are not describing the exact same group of people when they say middle class. The term lacks specificity and is a catalyst for seemingly every presidential candidacy. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 01:48 PM

Presidential candidates can "get away" with saying things because they all have some great plan for the middle class, when the "middle class" can define so many people. And I guarantee you that both candidates are not describing the exact same group of people when they say middle class. The term lacks specificity and is a catalyst for seemingly every presidential candidacy. Pretty stupid if you ask me.
Because they are the target voters. Lower income folks with always vote Decocratic and High income folks with always vote Republican (except Hollywood).

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 02:00 PM

Presidential candidates can "get away" with saying things because they all have some great plan for the middle class, when the "middle class" can define so many people. And I guarantee you that both candidates are not describing the exact same group of people when they say middle class. The term lacks specificity and is a catalyst for seemingly every presidential candidacy. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

fairly accurate I suppose.

Romney is so out of touch with reality that he thinks middle class make up to $250,000+ annually

am I a doctor? lol

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 02:02 PM

fairly accurate I suppose.

Romney is so out of touch with reality that he thinks middle class make up to $250,000+ annually

am I a doctor? lollol So does Obama if you listen to him campaign.

Imgrate

10-04-2012, 02:10 PM

fairly accurate I suppose. Romney is so out of touch with reality that he thinks middle class make up to $250,000+ annuallyam I a doctor? lolIt's also about life style. a single male with two roommates making 70k compared to a family of 5 making 120k, things like that

Imgrate

10-04-2012, 02:16 PM

Anyway, I'm not going to go much further into politics. Mainly because i'm not educated on the subject, and it is not meant to be talked about here. Obviously it gets overlooked on this thread, but I still don't like to do it.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 02:24 PM

Anyway, I'm not going to go much further into politics. Mainly because i'm not educated on the subject, and it is not meant to be talked about here. Obviously it gets overlooked on this thread, but I still don't like to do it..

actually, i'm with you.....but with all the republicans in here, and with Matt constantly being MIA, they attack the independant liberals. lol
(that and i like to say things that make them post 6 paragraphs, lol

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 02:26 PM

lol So does Obama if you listen to him campaign.
Like..."raising taxes on the wealthy will help the economy".
Now that's.... "out of touch"

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 02:27 PM

.

actually, i'm with you.....but with all the republicans in here, and with Matt constantly being MIA, they attack the independant liberals. lol
(that and i like to say things that make them post 6 paragraphs, lol
I'm not a republican. I'm a small government conservative with Libertarian leanings. I have voted for plenty of Dems in my life.

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 02:28 PM

Romney cannot dispute his tax cut plan on the rich by citing NOT EVEN ONE example of reducing loopholes and deductions. He even said that economists can't say that he plans to add 5 trillion, just because "he says" he wont add to the deficit with his tax plan. Well if you give no examples, 100% of people can still say that's whats going to happen, because youve provided no information during any juncture of his campaign.

He explained why he wasn't going to detail which loop holes and deductions he was going to close, he can't possibly know which ones the congress and the senate will allow through, he's being responsible, he's not making promises he can't keep, Obama promised the world during his campaign and couldn't deliver it, Romney is telling you what he plans to do and how he's going to go about it, but he's not making specific promises because it's not up to "the president" alone to make these decisions he has to work with congress and the senate.

That said he did present a few options for loop holes and deductions to close and get rid of during the debate last night...clearly you missed that part.

The entire economy/tax portion of the debate was ruined by the fact that Lehrer not once held either candidate accountable to facts. He did nothing to challenge them, especially Romney, who is trying to "reform" everything.

don't you agree we need reform? or are you ok with the highest unemployment numbers and the slowest economy in decades? is the economy as it is now what you want for your children?

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 02:30 PM

He explained why he wasn't going to detail which loop holes and deductions he was going to close, he can't possibly know which ones the congress and the senate will allow through, he's being responsible, he's not making promises he can't keep, Obama promised the world during his campaign and couldn't deliver it, Romney is telling you what he plans to do and how he's going to go about it, but he's not making specific promises because it's not up to "the president" alone to make these decisions he has to work with congress and the senate.

That said he did present a few options for loop holes and deductions to close and get rid of during the debate last night...clearly you missed that part.

don't you agree we need reform? or are you ok with the highest unemployment numbers and the slowest economy in decades? is the economy as it is now what you want for your children?
He said that he would simply limit the amount of deductions you can take when you have a higher income.

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 02:31 PM

You do realize that by reducing rates by 20% youre already adding to the deficit, right? In fact it would *gasp* cut $5trillion in revenue!! =O

You do realize that you are incorrect here right? (apparently not) when you reduce rates you put more money into the pockets of the consumer, they buy more stuff...stuff which generally has sales tax connected to it, reducing rates INCREASES Revenue...it doesn't generally reduce it.

I'd like to know how tax loopholes are going to add that much money to counter. No really, do we have examples yet?

He can not tell you which loop holes are going to be closed...that's up to congress and the senate...all he can do is advise them to concentrate on closing them....that's the point, Obama promised things that he didn't have the power to accomplish during his campaign .... Romney is not doing that...and that's a good thing, he's NOT misleading people like Obama did.

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 02:37 PM

Romney is so out of touch with reality that he thinks middle class make up to $250,000+ annually

am I a doctor? lol

That's really not inaccurate Pizz.

Taxes are based on household incomes and for example, My parents (who live literally down the street from the Place MMB used to live) make over 250K annually.

they are not rich, they have to save for things they want they have to pay bills in portion not full every time...they are far from rich, but they are considered rich by Obama.

and that's not even taking into account that many small business's are taxed under personal income tax rates, if you own your own business and your total income for the year is say 400k (so say you profit perhaps 50-60K) you would be considered rich....I don't know about you, but 50-60k in NYC is not rich in my opinion...they should not be paying 50%+ of their income to the government.

Lower the tax rates creates jobs and increases revenue in one fell swoop, the problem Obama has with it is that it wouldn't be the Federal Government coming in to save everyone...in fact it would be the opposite...and that's totally against his morals and Ideals.

Obama believes the government is there to save everyone.
Romney believes the government is there to help everyone save themselves.

Imgrate

10-04-2012, 02:37 PM

He said that he would simply limit the amount of deductions you can take when you have a higher income.Define higher income

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 02:39 PM

see how I can make Daven post 1 short story after I post 15 words? =]

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 02:42 PM

He said that he would simply limit the amount of deductions you can take when you have a higher income.

He offered that as an option yes, but he went on to say that it is literally impossible to give specifics on any type of plan right now, because he has to work with both aisles in Congress and in the Senate...there are going to have to be compromises, if he goes in there and just demands his plan be passed you can damn well believe the Dem's will stop the plan with everything they have just like the Republican's stopped Obama's...because honestly it's the right thing to do....their needs to be compromise.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 02:47 PM

Define higher income
According to who? Obama says $250,000 is "the rich". I suppose it depends on who you talk to.
My point is that it is very sound economics to reduce rates AND deductions. It should also be revenue neutral. Our complex tax code is making us more and more uncompetitive in the global economy. Obama had a chance to make real tax reform when he had the Congress in his pocket for 2 years.
He NOW says he wants to do all these kinds of things yet me had his chance and didn't make a single proposal for tax simplicity.
You had your shot Uncle Barack and blew it. Next man up!

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 02:47 PM

Define higher income

this is the problem lawl, you can't define higher income because it's going to be compromised between democratic and republican representatives before it ever gets to the president, what Romney could say is something like, I will not allow a bill to pass that does not limit the deductions on people making more then 500K a year...but he can not give a number or define high income people because it's not up to him.

Imgrate

10-04-2012, 02:56 PM

this is the problem lawl, you can't define higher income because it's going to be compromised between democratic and republican representatives before it ever gets to the president, what Romney could say is something like, I will not allow a bill to pass that does not limit the deductions on people making more then 500K a year...but he can not give a number or define high income people because it's not up to him.So by saying higher income, he is not truly saying anything.

Imgrate

10-04-2012, 03:00 PM

According to who? Obama says $250,000 is "the rich". I suppose it depends on who you talk to.My point is that it is very sound economics to reduce rates AND deductions. It should also be revenue neutral. Our complex tax code is making us more and more uncompetitive in the global economy. Obama had a chance to make real tax reform when he had the Congress in his pocket for 2 years.He NOW says he wants to do all these kinds of things yet me had his chance and didn't make a single proposal for tax simplicity.You had your shot Uncle Barack and blew it. Next man up!That's my point. You said he said higher income as if it's a great thing but you don't even know what he means when he says higher, because he doesn't even know. These guy say broad words like lower, higher, middle. And because of the ambiguity of these terms, they aren't actually saying anything worthwhile

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 03:02 PM

Im surprised that while Obama was talking about job growth Romney didnt mention that Obama hasnt met with his jobs council in months....He also skips Intel reports from around the world. Hes so damn incompetent its sickening. Maybe next debate.

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 03:04 PM

That's my point. You said he said higher income as if it's a great thing but you don't even know what he means when he says higher, because he doesn't even know. These guy say broad words like lower, higher, middle. And because of the ambiguity of these terms, they aren't actually saying anything worthwhileI agree with what youre saying but I think Romney has a number in mind, but like Daven said, he doesnt want to promise something he cant keep his word on

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 03:09 PM

That's really not inaccurate Pizz.

Taxes are based on household incomes and for example, My parents (who live literally down the street from the Place MMB used to live) make over 250K annually.

they are not rich, they have to save for things they want they have to pay bills in portion not full every time...they are far from rich, but they are considered rich by Obama.

and that's not even taking into account that many small business's are taxed under personal income tax rates, if you own your own business and your total income for the year is say 400k (so say you profit perhaps 50-60K) you would be considered rich....I don't know about you, but 50-60k in NYC is not rich in my opinion...they should not be paying 50%+ of their income to the government.

Lower the tax rates creates jobs and increases revenue in one fell swoop, the problem Obama has with it is that it wouldn't be the Federal Government coming in to save everyone...in fact it would be the opposite...and that's totally against his morals and Ideals.

Obama believes the government is there to save everyone.
Romney believes the government is there to help everyone save themselves.

I cant even relate to your family's income, sorry if this comes across ****ish. We live in an area with some of the most outrageous property and school taxes in the northeast, and my family makes nowhere near that. 250k is VERY comfortable....and if people think otherwise, maybe they should rethink lifestyle choices.

And you dont have to explain how taxes and tax brackets work. I get it....lol

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 03:13 PM

Valentine got fired. GRATS YO!!! lol

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 03:14 PM

That's my point. You said he said higher income as if it's a great thing but you don't even know what he means when he says higher, because he doesn't even know. These guy say broad words like lower, higher, middle. And because of the ambiguity of these terms, they aren't actually saying anything worthwhile

I'm not disagreeing with you on the fact that the term is broad, but what I'm trying to tell you is that he can not be specific without promising something that is outside of his power.

he can set some guidelines for what he "thinks" is higher income...but in the end it's not for him to decide...it's for republican and democratic congressman and senators to decide.

they will come up with a number (to simplify it lol) for the bill, they will send the bill to Romney/Obama to sign....now it's up to them whether they want to let that pass or not.

the salient point isn't the exact number at which point Obama/Romney thinks someone is rich because their opinion doesn't really matter all that much, the point is what they are planing to do with people who are and/or aren't rich.

And you dont have to explain how taxes and tax brackets work. I get it....lol

apparently you don't, my mother is going to be forced to quit her job soon even though she doesn't want to because her 60-70k a year puts the household income into a higher tax bracket...that bracket is so much higher that if she chooses not to work...and they drop to the lower bracket...they actually take home more money then if she was working.

and trust me Pizz, 250k is NOT comfortable when you have a family living in NY...it's doable..but far from comfortable.

I'm under the assumption that you understand that in NY 250k a year = somewhere around 100-110k take home for the entire year....Kids+Mortgage+Gas....and just general every day life things like groceries and health care....it all adds up and makes 110K seem uncomfortable for a 5 person family, I'm not saying there aren't people worse off...but a family making between 250-300k in NY is nowhere even remotely close to "rich"

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 03:22 PM

apparently you don't, my mother is going to be forced to quit her job soon even though she doesn't want to because her 60-70k a year puts the household income into a higher tax bracket...that bracket is so much higher that if she chooses not to work...and they drop to the lower bracket...they actually take home more money then if she was working.

and trust me Pizz, 250k is NOT comfortable when you have a family living in NY...it's doable..but far from comfortable.especially a small business. 250k before overhead is not a lot at all.

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 03:27 PM

especially a small business. 250k before overhead is not a lot at all.

Exactly, like I said before, you could show a income of 400-or-500K a year if you own a small business but only 75-100K of that (or less) will be take home $$$ the rest will be going towards other employees, the building, advertising and whatever else you need to stay in business....yet you'll get taxes as though you where taking all 500k of it home.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 03:44 PM

apparently you don't, my mother is going to be forced to quit her job soon even though she doesn't want to because her 60-70k a year puts the household income into a higher tax bracket...that bracket is so much higher that if she chooses not to work...and they drop to the lower bracket...they actually take home more money then if she was working.

and trust me Pizz, 250k is NOT comfortable when you have a family living in NY...it's doable..but far from comfortable.

I'm under the assumption that you understand that in NY 250k a year = somewhere around 100-110k take home for the entire year....Kids+Mortgage+Gas....and just general every day life things like groceries and health care....it all adds up and makes 110K seem uncomfortable for a 5 person family, I'm not saying there aren't people worse off...but a family making between 250-300k in NY is nowhere even remotely close to "rich"

If you listen to Obama, you would think that anyone making $250 or more should be wearing a top hat and monocle.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 03:57 PM

apparently you don't, my mother is going to be forced to quit her job soon even though she doesn't want to because her 60-70k a year puts the household income into a higher tax bracket...that bracket is so much higher that if she chooses not to work...and they drop to the lower bracket...they actually take home more money then if she was working.

and trust me Pizz, 250k is NOT comfortable when you have a family living in NY...it's doable..but far from comfortable.

I'm under the assumption that you understand that in NY 250k a year = somewhere around 100-110k take home for the entire year....Kids+Mortgage+Gas....and just general every day life things like groceries and health care....it all adds up and makes 110K seem uncomfortable for a 5 person family, I'm not saying there aren't people worse off...but a family making between 250-300k in NY is nowhere even remotely close to "rich"

I've lived in NY all 29 years, my 2 parents combine for less than 90k income(my mom makes less than I do by alot, but shes not a skilled worker), 3 sons living under their roof(well, me, on and off for the past 10 but i pay my mother to live at home)....7k annual prop/school tax on less than a quarter acre, and then of course income tax, and I dont want to even take a stab as to what that equates to in disposable income. so it would appear that even your view is slightly skewed in that respect.

I didnt say rich...i said comfortable.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 04:01 PM

wow, i just realized that it's possible that neither of you can relate to a normal living situation of people like my family....

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 04:06 PM

wow, i just realized that it's possible that neither of you can relate to a normal living situation of people like my family....
Why?

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 04:09 PM

wow, i just realized that it's possible that neither of you can relate to a normal living situation of people like my family....

Until I was 18-19 years old Pizz my family was worse off then yours (less then 90K) there is not a substantial difference between what you grew up like and what you would have grown up like had your parents made double, trust me I know I lived through both situations....the tax brackets the way they are now...work WAY WAY better then you believe, to the point that we are taxing "high middle class" families as though they were rich already...right now, and Obama wants to make it worse

I think the reason I understand this is because I CAN relate to both sides...since I've been there.

I had to buy my own car Pizz because my parents couldn't afford to do so for me, I had to start working when I was 14, trust me I understand...I think perhaps you are misinformed about your own situation if anything.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 04:12 PM

Why?

The difference between Daven's mother and father's tax bracket issue, with their income, is nothing that ppl making 50k/yr(which last time i check is actually higher than the NY median) can relate to....it's like one of those #FirstWorldProblems posts.
People wonder why there's class warfare(if you want to call it that. personally i dont)....its because of things like this.

Daven tells me this as if I'm supposed to understand that problem, and im like "oh, I'm sorry, but i dont get it....my stepfather had to find a part time job, to offset property taxes and rebuild his bank account..... not worry about quitting one."

This isn't a stab at Daven. I know you guys know I like you. but it makes me realize how out of touch people sometimes are with each other.

You think if they made 250k in NY, that I'd even be talking about this? lol

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 04:15 PM

Until I was 18-19 years old Pizz my family was worse off then yours (less then 90K) there is not a substantial difference between what you grew up like and what you would have grown up like had your parents made double, trust me I know I lived through both situations....the tax brackets the way they are now...work WAY WAY better then you believe...

I think the reason I understand this is because I CAN relate to both sides...since I've been there.

I had to buy my own car Pizz because my parents couldn't afford to do so for me, I had to start working when I was 14, trust me I understand...I think perhaps you are misinformed about your own situation if anything.

well im glad you say you can relate. but i dont know how i could be misinformed. my parents no longer make 90k....im not sure what my stepdad makes anymore, but i know my mom makes less than 40k

for the record Daven, youre just listing things that I've done also, lol......i know my living situation would have not been substantially different. but there WOULD be a difference between my parents struggling with it, and DEALING with it.

my message to the ACTUAL rich would be just that...."Deal with it"

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 04:18 PM

The difference between Daven's mother and father's tax bracket issue, with their income, is nothing that ppl making 50k/yr(which last time i check is actually higher than the NY median) can relate to....it's like one of those #FirstWorldProblems posts.
People wonder why their's class warfare(if you want to call it that. personally i dont)....its because of things like this.

Daven tells me this as if I'm supposed to understand that problem, and im like "oh, I'm sorry, but i dont get it....my stepfather had to find a part time job, to offset property taxes and rebuild his bank account..... not worry about quitting one."

This isn't a stab at Daven. I know you guys know I like you. but it makes me realize how out of touch people sometimes are with each other.

You think if they made 250k in NY, that I'd even be talking about this? lol
When I was 33 I had to take a part time job handing out towels and keys at a health club. I had 3 kids at home, a constantly late mortgage, a reposessed car and a crazy drunken wife. Then Lowell Weiker decided that we needed to pay a Connecticut income tax, and that i was "wealthy" enough to pay it.

Everyone has had their **** Piz. Very few get away scott free. Yours is not some exclusive club.

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 04:22 PM

well im glad you say you can relate. but i dont know how i could be misinformed. my parents no longer make 90k....im not sure what my stepdad makes anymore, but i know my mom makes less than 40k

for the record Daven, youre just listing things that I've done also, lol......i know my living situation would have not been substantially different. but there WOULD be a difference between my parents struggling with it, and DEALING with it.

that's my point Pizz, even though you think my family is some "well to do" family your situation and my situation was very similar....you are misinformed on what "rich" is.

Was there a difference, perhaps a small one maybe I got playstation when you didn't? but not a difference worth a 15-20% tax hike on my family vs yours because we are "rich" when you are not (even though we have the same lifestyle lol)

my message to the ACTUAL rich would be just that...."Deal with it" whats your definition of "actual" rich?

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 04:30 PM

The difference between Daven's mother and father's tax bracket issue, with their income, is nothing that ppl making 50k/yr(which last time i check is actually higher than the NY median) can relate to....it's like one of those #FirstWorldProblems posts.
People wonder why there's class warfare(if you want to call it that. personally i dont)....its because of things like this.

Daven tells me this as if I'm supposed to understand that problem, and im like "oh, I'm sorry, but i dont get it....my stepfather had to find a part time job, to offset property taxes and rebuild his bank account..... not worry about quitting one."

This isn't a stab at Daven. I know you guys know I like you. but it makes me realize how out of touch people sometimes are with each other.

You think if they made 250k in NY, that I'd even be talking about this? lol

50k median is 100K already Pizz...because it's house hold income right and both members of the family are working, on top of that if you are only making 100k as a family you are in a low tax bracket...you are taking 70% or more of that home (and getting other benefits from the government at that point)

70% of 100k is 70k

conversely if you are making 250k you are only bringing 50%ish home so now that's 125K right?

think about kids...the 250K family has to pay for their kids college out of pocket...but the 100k Family get's federally supported scholarships that 10-20K a year right there.

the gap between a family making 250k and 100k is MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller then you think Pizz...and that's the problem, Obama is making you hate people who in all respects are JUST LIKE YOU because he's telling you we aren't.

I'm lucky to have learned this by having lived in both situations, you having only lived in my original situation can not fathom that making twice as much money as you make now would make almost no difference....but it's the truth...I know from experience.

obviously when you are talking about millionaires it's different....but until you get up to much higher levels everyone else is still middle class...they still live similar lives.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 04:43 PM

I'm offended that you think I hate ppl because "Obama tells me so" like im some sort of democrat puppet....I've never had much sympathy for people who got taxed more because they made significantly more. Good for them....but dont cry about it.
That goes way before I even knew who Obama was.

And you don't have to preach to me if youre in the same financial situation I'm in....which by the way is fine.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 04:49 PM

I'm offended that you think I hate ppl because "Obama tells me so" like im some sort of democrat puppet....I've never had much sympathy for people who got taxed more because they made significantly more. Good for them....but dont cry about it.
That goes way before I even knew who Obama was.

And you don't have to preach to me if youre in the same financial situation I'm in....which by the way is fine.
Let's put it this way.......How have the last 4 years worked out for you?
Not too good for me.

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 04:51 PM

I'm offended that you think I hate ppl because "Obama tells me so" like im some sort of democrat puppet....I've never had much sympathy for people who got taxed more because they made significantly more. Good for them....but dont cry about it.
That goes way before I even knew who Obama was.

And you don't have to preach to me if youre in the same financial situation I'm in....which by the way is fine.

no one expects or wants your sympathy here, what I'm telling you is that 250k is in my opinion, still well inside the "Middle Class" since my lifestyle and your lifestyle were "very" similar growing up I think that's proof of that, correct?

so why is Obama trying to make sure those families making over 250k are taxed more heavily? what reason is there for it....these are families JUST LIKE YOURS ... does your family need to pay more taxes too? think how a 10% increase in taxes to your family would feel....

I don't want your sympathy, I want you to understand what's being proposed...Obama doesn't want to only increase tax rates on monocle wearing rich folk...he wants to increase the tax rate on families just like yours.

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 04:54 PM

I'm offended that you think I hate ppl because "Obama tells me so" like im some sort of democrat puppet....I've never had much sympathy for people who got taxed more because they made significantly more. Good for them....but dont cry about it.
That goes way before I even knew who Obama was.

And you don't have to preach to me if youre in the same financial situation I'm in....which by the way is fine.I dont think you hate them, but in some of your posts you demonize them. And many on the left feel the same you do.
You think its ok for the gov to take almost half your income? doesnt matter what class, its not right, its not American.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 04:58 PM

Let's put it this way.......How have the last 4 years worked out for you?
Not too good for me.

Well, you can chalk this up to me being younger, but....I've gotten promoted twice, and gotten 4 raises working for a rather moderate/conservative local(but successful) financial institution.
My living situation is less than desirable, but i had fun for the past 3 years living with friends!! lol. In january I moved back home when my buddy sold his house in (flipped it technically), and I opted to move in with my mom, because financially benefits both her and I, and because I can't afford a home by myself in NY.
My health insurance premiums have only increased once in 3 years, and it was only by $5 a month(maybe less).

Despite the fact that I don't necessarily like my job and it's redundancies, and i dont make a TON of money.....I've honestly and truthfully been fine for the past 4 years. Well, clearly better off than i was 4 years ago. But as mentioned, you might just attribute that to the fact that I'm young in comparison and have nowhere to go but up? idk....not sure what you would say to that actually. lol

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 04:59 PM

no one expects or wants your sympathy here, what I'm telling you is that 250k is in my opinion, still well inside the "Middle Class" since my lifestyle and your lifestyle were "very" similar growing up I think that's proof of that, correct?

so why is Obama trying to make sure those families making over 250k are taxed more heavily? what reason is there for it....these are families JUST LIKE YOURS ... does your family need to pay more taxes too? think how a 10% increase in taxes to your family would feel....

I don't want your sympathy, I want you to understand what's being proposed...Obama doesn't want to only increase tax rates on monocle wearing rich folk...he wants to increase the tax rate on families just like yours.
And especially on small businesses like the one I work for.

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 04:59 PM

so cabrera won the triple crown. good for him.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 05:00 PM

Well, you can chalk this up to me being younger, but....I've gotten promoted twice, and gotten 4 raises working for a rather moderate/conservative financial institution.
My living situation is less than desirable, but i had fun for the past 3 years living with friends!! lol. In january I moved back home when my buddy sold his house in (flipped it technically), and I opted to move in with my mom, because financially benefits both her and I, and because I can't afford a home by myself in NY.
My health insurance premiums have only increased once in 3 years, and it was only by $5 a month(maybe less).

Despite the fact that I don't necessarily like my job and it's redundancies, and i dont make a TON of money.....I've honestly and truthfully been fine for the past 4 years. Well, clearly better off than i was 4 years ago. But as mentioned, you might just attribute that to the fact that I'm young in comparison and have nowhere to go but up? idk....not sure what you would say to that actually. lol
How are the economic conditions for the bank you work for? Countless employees of small banks have been laid off all over the country.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 05:01 PM

so cabrera won the triple crown. good for him.
Its a tremendous accomplishment.

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 05:02 PM

Well, you can chalk this up to me being younger, but....I've gotten promoted twice, and gotten 4 raises working for a rather moderate/conservative local(but successful) financial institution.
My living situation is less than desirable, but i had fun for the past 3 years living with friends!! lol. In january I moved back home when my buddy sold his house in (flipped it technically), and I opted to move in with my mom, because financially benefits both her and I, and because I can't afford a home by myself in NY.
My health insurance premiums have only increased once in 3 years, and it was only by $5 a month(maybe less).

Despite the fact that I don't necessarily like my job and it's redundancies, and i dont make a TON of money.....I've honestly and truthfully been fine for the past 4 years. Well, clearly better off than i was 4 years ago. But as mentioned, you might just attribute that to the fact that I'm young in comparison and have nowhere to go but up? idk....not sure what you would say to that actually. lolwhat bank do you work for? Didnt happen to get a bail out did it?:o

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 05:02 PM

And especially on small businesses like the one I work for.

yes it's even worse for small business's, you know the ones that create jobs for people...the ones that are literally struggling to function right now under the current tax burden, raise taxes more on places like these small businesses and they will have to go out of business....creating more unemployment...which creates a need for "higher taxes" in Obama's system...so you can afford the welfare for these newly unemployed people, which in turn creates more failing businesses which creates more unemployment...etc etc it's a vicious cycle.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 05:05 PM

so cabrera won the triple crown. good for him.

Legendary achievement. Congrats to Miggy

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 05:05 PM

what bank do you work for? Didnt happen to get a bail out did it?:o
Small banks didn't get bailed out. they just got burdened by Dodd Frank and don't lend money much for mortgages.

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 05:06 PM

Legendary achievement. Congrats to Miggy
I agree. I don't understand why anyone would minimize this. The friggin triple crown is as hard to do as anything in sports. The other may be broken by Drew Brees this weekend.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 05:15 PM

what bank do you work for? Didnt happen to get a bail out did it?:o

A Credit Union local to my Hudson Valley area.....and no, CUs are not allowed the same unregulated nonsense that commercial banks have. lol

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 05:17 PM

I agree. I don't understand why anyone would minimize this. The friggin triple crown is as hard to do as anything in sports. The other may be broken by Drew Brees this weekend.consecutive games with a td?

dezzzR

10-04-2012, 05:18 PM

Its hard I agree, but not as hard in todays game.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 05:20 PM

I agree. I don't understand why anyone would minimize this. The friggin triple crown is as hard to do as anything in sports. The other may be broken by Drew Brees this weekend.

I was watching Francessa on my lunch break (goddamn i hate him....) and some caller asked his opinion on whether or not Miggy was a HOFer if he retired today. And Francessa said..."well idk about that...but he's on the pace...."
Bull****.....Cabrera just got his way in.....Perennial MVP candidate .318 career hitter with NINE awesome seasons under his belt, helped a team to a title....FIRST TRIPLE CROWN WINNER IN 45 ****ING YEARS??!?!?! yea....that spells Hall...lol

DavenIII

10-04-2012, 05:31 PM

A Credit Union local to my Hudson Valley area.....and no, CUs are not allowed the same unregulated nonsense that commercial banks have. lol

**** never would have went down the way it did if the Government didn't back the banks it thought were "too big to fail", it's not the "banks" fault it's the governments fault for telling the banks to go crazy experimenting.

JPizzack

10-04-2012, 05:33 PM

**** never would have went down the way it did if the Government didn't back the banks it thought were "too big to fail", it's not the "banks" fault it's the governments fault for telling the banks to go crazy experimenting.

Some people just wanna **** up a good thing....lol

Imgrate

10-04-2012, 07:11 PM

Baseball predictions anyone?

Morehead State

10-04-2012, 07:35 PM

Baseball predictions anyone?
Baseball starts in April. Its all NY Football Giants from here on.

Kase-1

10-04-2012, 08:50 PM

Legendary achievement. Congrats to MiggyAgreed, as much as I dont like baseball that is a HUGE accomplishment, I just looked it up and that puts him up there with Mantle, Gerhig, Hornsby, Ted Williams, Yastrezemsky (sp) and Frank Robinson.... DAMN!!!

Kase-1

10-04-2012, 08:51 PM

Baseball starts in April. Its all NY Football Giants from here on. I wish there were talks about hockey starting..... :(

Morehead State

10-05-2012, 09:57 AM

I wish there were talks about hockey starting..... :(
Unfortunately the NHL is hell bent on self destruction.

JPizzack

10-05-2012, 10:13 AM

Unfortunately the NHL is hell bent on self destruction.

Sad too....cuz I feel liek there were fans moving toward the sport who normally werent. Now they have no choice but to be far away.

i would have loved to chosen NHL over NBA.....but those 2 just cant get their **** together.

byron

10-05-2012, 12:54 PM

hey guys looking like rain for sunday...I'll bring a trash bag and hat with me

Morehead State

10-05-2012, 01:03 PM

hey guys looking like rain for sunday...I'll bring a trash bag and hat with me
looks like we'll have 2 (10 ft) canopies.

byron

10-05-2012, 01:07 PM

looks like we'll have 2 (10 ft) canopies. that will work ....you ready for some soy

Morehead State

10-05-2012, 01:18 PM

that will work ....you ready for some soy
Matt can have mine. I'll get my steak plain.

MattMeyerBud

10-05-2012, 01:26 PM

Unfortunately the NHL is hell bent on self destruction.

its not a good business model

dont think they can really afford this raise the players want

MattMeyerBud

10-05-2012, 01:27 PM

Sad too....cuz I feel liek there were fans moving toward the sport who normally werent. Now they have no choice but to be far away.

i would have loved to chosen NHL over NBA.....but those 2 just cant get their **** together.

NHL definitly killed it self again, but it may of been too little too late for the interest

MattMeyerBud

10-05-2012, 01:27 PM

hey guys looking like rain for sunday...I'll bring a trash bag and hat with me

i'll bring your new cruz jersey

MattMeyerBud

10-05-2012, 01:27 PM

looks like we'll have 2 (10 ft) canopies.

Daven said his parents have some so hes going to get one from them

MattMeyerBud

10-05-2012, 01:28 PM

Matt can have mine. I'll get my steak plain.

i can tell your a republican by your bad taste in food

MattMeyerBud

10-05-2012, 01:28 PM

anybody ask Dezz if hes going this year?

Morehead State

10-05-2012, 01:33 PM

anybody ask Dezz if hes going this year?
As if he really exists.

JPizzack

10-05-2012, 01:35 PM

anybody ask Dezz if hes going this year?

of all the times i've brought it up....he responded once, with "maybe"......so do you feel up to the challenge of deciphering that answer?!? lol

Imgrate

10-05-2012, 01:59 PM

of all the times i've brought it up....he responded once, with "maybe"......so do you feel up to the challenge of deciphering that answer?!? lol sounds like there's a better chance I'll be at the game than dezz. (I'll be on a flight home)

byron

10-05-2012, 01:59 PM

i'll bring your new cruz jersey cool thanks Matt !

Imgrate

10-05-2012, 02:01 PM

Matt can have mine. I'll get my steak plain.You guys should try Buenos Aires steakhouse in the city, if you're looking for a good steak. I'm sure Matt knows of alot more places than me, but that would be my recommendation

DavenIII

10-05-2012, 02:20 PM

yeah I will go pick up the Canopy (EZ up) tomorrow, we have parking passes right? and where are we meeting up and everything is it all set up yet I haven't been paying attention lol.

DavenIII

10-05-2012, 02:21 PM

You guys should try Buenos Aires steakhouse in the city, if you're looking for a good steak. I'm sure Matt knows of alot more places than me, but that would be my recommendation

yeah I will go pick up the Canopy (EZ up) tomorrow, we have parking passes right? and where are we meeting up and everything is it all set up yet I haven't been paying attention lol.

I have a parking pass...I was told Lando picked some up too i think?

Yea, I'd like to know if we're meeting at Wendys and then making the convoy into the lot? I say the earlier we plan to meet at Wendys, the better shot we all have at arriving on time. lmao...
Every year is a problem it seems haha

byron

10-05-2012, 03:28 PM

I have a parking pass...I was told Lando picked some up too i think?

Yea, I'd like to know if we're meeting at Wendys and then making the convoy into the lot? I say the earlier we plan to meet at Wendys, the better shot we all have at arriving on time. lmao...
Every year is a problem it seems haha I believe thats the plan at least Lando made mention of it ...is this the same place Jake and I met up with you guy?...Lando got three passes one of which I'm getting...I can carry a few people in I'd say at least four....

I need to get a gps for the trip any recomends

JPizzack

10-05-2012, 03:35 PM

I believe thats the plan at least Lando made mention of it ...is this the same place Jake and I met up with you guy?...Lando got three passes one of which I'm getting...I can carry a few people in I'd say at least four....

I need to get a gps for the trip any recomends

Ummm yea, i think that year we all met at that Wendys. You guys met up with Matt and Blondie and Lando first though right? But i do recall seeing you at wendys haha

JPizzack

10-05-2012, 03:39 PM

I need to get a gps for the trip any recomends

hehe, youre gonna go buy one?

I got a TomTom a few years back, its great!! I've used a garmin before also, but the touch controls were smaller, as was the screen....idk, i dont use it that often i guess cuz its not like i go on trips weekly....but it was a great purchase....

byron

10-05-2012, 03:39 PM

Ummm yea, i think that year we all met at that Wendys. You guys met up with Matt and Blondie and Lando first though right? But i do recall seeing you at wendys haha haha.. yeah... you were there also... Lando and Matt road in with us and Amanda rode in with you I think...lol

JPizzack

10-05-2012, 03:42 PM

haha.. yeah... you were there also... Lando and Matt road in with us and Amanda rode in with you I think...lol

HAHA! thats right....cuz they were barely on speaking terms at that point lol!! guess it worked out well, eh??

byron

10-05-2012, 03:46 PM

hehe, youre gonna go buy one?

I got a TomTom a few years back, its great!! I've used a garmin before also, but the touch controls were smaller, as was the screen....idk, i dont use it that often i guess cuz its not like i go on trips weekly....but it was a great purchase.... Yeah I don't want to get lost Sears sell a tomtom they have garmin also.....I have a nice Garmin 6 inch screen in the boat that I like.... little worried about seeing the buoys in the car that and getting wet......

byron

10-05-2012, 03:48 PM

HAHA! thats right....cuz they were barely on speaking terms at that point lol!! guess it worked out well, eh?? haha yes it did

Morehead State

10-05-2012, 03:50 PM

Yeah I don't want to get lost Sears sell a tomtom they have garmin also.....I have a nice Garmin 6 inch screen in the boat that I like.... little worried about seeing the buoys in the car that and getting wet......
Just get a cheap Garmin for $89.00.
Anyway...we will figure it all out for Sunday morning when we meet at Steve's World of Soy on Saturday night.

JPizzack

10-05-2012, 03:52 PM

Yeah I don't want to get lost Sears sell a tomtom they have garmin also.....I have a nice Garmin 6 inch screen in the boat that I like.... little worried about seeing the buoys in the car that and getting wet......

OH MY GOD!!! i dont know why that reminded me....but i have the funniest story!!

I have a friend who is ****ing crazy...like he gets drunk, not like blackout...but drunk enough to make some of the worst decisions ever....

We're out on his boat, out on the Hudson....., he drinks too much....my other buddy ends up driving....

Phil keeps asking if there are fish in the area, so he can "catch em with his hands" >.< my othe rbuddy says he doesnt know how to read that instrument.

Phil goes..."oh ****...nevermind, i remembered, my phone has an app for that now!" He looks down at his phone, hits a few buttons.....and then CHUCKS HIS PHONE IN THE ****ING RIVER!!!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

he's like "we should know in a few seconds if there any bass in the area...."

byron

10-05-2012, 03:55 PM

Just get a cheap Garmin for $89.00.
Anyway...we will figure it all out for Sunday morning when we meet at Steve's World of Soy on Saturday night. SWOS lol...yeah I don't know a lot about the things we had one when we went down last time...If you missed a turn it redirected I asume they all do that....

byron

10-05-2012, 04:05 PM

OH MY GOD!!! i dont know why that reminded me....but i have the funniest story!!

I have a friend who is ****ing crazy...like he gets drunk, not like blackout...but drunk enough to make some of the worst decisions ever....

We're out on his boat, out on the Hudson....., he drinks too much....my other buddy ends up driving....

Phil keeps asking if there are fish in the area, so he can "catch em with his hands" >.< my othe rbuddy says he doesnt know how to read that instrument.

Phil goes..."oh ****...nevermind, i remembered, my phone has an app for that now!" He looks down at his phone, hits a few buttons.....and then CHUCKS HIS PHONE IN THE ****ING RIVER!!!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

he's like "we should know in a few seconds if there any bass in the area...." Hahaha sounds like me when I drank.....I used to ride the boat at night aside from being drunk I alway went slow ....this one night its really dark "no moonlight"...my buddy say to me "you sure you know where your at" I said to him I know this lake like the back of my hand , as we ran into shore....whoop !

Morehead State

10-05-2012, 04:09 PM

SWOS lol...yeah I don't know a lot about the things we had one when we went down last time...If you missed a turn it redirected I asume they all do that....
What the hell is SWOS?

byron

10-05-2012, 04:12 PM

What the hell is SWOS? hahaha.......Steves world of soy....haha...

Morehead State

10-05-2012, 04:18 PM

hahaha.......Steves world of soy....haha...
Oh.

JPizzack

10-05-2012, 04:23 PM

Hahaha sounds like me when I drank.....I used to ride the boat at night aside from being drunk I alway went slow ....this one night its really dark "no moonlight"...my buddy say to me "you sure you know where your at" I said to him I know this lake like the back of my hand , as we ran into shore....whoop !

LOL. this guy pays for the SeaTow emergency service thing. its like $100/yr or something....so if you go to one of the marina bars, you can move into open water....take out one of your plugs, call them to tow you and say the boat died. BAM!! free designated driver...

JPizzack

10-06-2012, 11:40 AM

Remember to buy your beer today, because you wont be able to tmrw. lol

Kase-1

10-06-2012, 12:51 PM

I have a parking pass...I was told Lando picked some up too i think?

Yea, I'd like to know if we're meeting at Wendys and then making the convoy into the lot? I say the earlier we plan to meet at Wendys, the better shot we all have at arriving on time. lmao...
Every year is a problem it seems hahaIm sorry my clocks are a little behind out here on LI, LOL.

I know Ive been the latest of anyone,EVERY YEAR, but me and my dude Ed WILL BE THERE ON TIME!!!!

Kase-1

10-06-2012, 12:54 PM

Remember to buy your beer today, because you wont be able to tmrw. lol

LMAO, I was thinking the exact same thing 10mins ago when I was making coffee

Kase-1

10-06-2012, 12:55 PM

looks like we'll have 2 (10 ft) canopies.I got 1 as well, so make that 3 canopy tents

Kase-1

10-06-2012, 12:56 PM

anybody ask Dezz if hes going this year?Remember, Dezz is Pizz and Pizz is Dezz, so he's actually been to a bunch of THEE Game's

JPizzack

10-06-2012, 01:46 PM

Remember, Dezz is Pizz and Pizz is Dezz, so he's actually been to a bunch of THEE Game's

=(

well I have.....

JPizzack

10-06-2012, 01:47 PM

Im sorry my clocks are a little behind out here on LI, LOL.

I know Ive been the latest of anyone,EVERY YEAR, but me and my dude Ed WILL BE THERE ON TIME!!!!

HAHA good to hear it. I'll be chillin in the lot, chain smoking =P

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 10:20 AM

HAHA good to hear it. I'll be chillin in the lot, chain smoking =P
For the record...the ONLY ones on time at Wendy's were Byron and me.

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 10:21 AM

For the record...the ONLY ones on time at Wendy's were Byron and me.

I got there before 8.

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 10:22 AM

I got there before 8.
I think you're right.

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 10:22 AM

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1517669/ichirodance.gif

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 10:24 AM

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1517669/ichirodance.gif

Isn't he WAY out of the baseline?

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 10:26 AM

Isn't he WAY out of the baseline?

I think the rules are different for home plate. could be wrong. but regardless, no, he isn't. The only time he WAS was when he ran PAST home. But the play is still live. because if someone missed home while running normally, they can be tagged wherever they stand, so it doesnt really matter where the runner is.

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 10:29 AM

I think the rules are different for home plate. could be wrong. but regardless, no, he isn't. The only time he WAS was when he ran PAST home. But the play is still live. because if someone missed home while running normally, they can be tagged wherever they stand, so it doesnt really matter where the runner is.
I'm not sure either. Did this happen last night?.....If it did...that's awesome!!!!

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 10:37 AM

I'm not sure either. Did this happen last night?.....If it did...that's awesome!!!!

Yup, quite an awesome play.

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 10:38 AM

For the record...the ONLY ones on time at Wendy's were Byron and me.

I got there at like 8:04...sorry, the last 3 times I've been there I've been waiting for 30+ minutes anyhow so forgive me if I think the 8:00 time is not really concrete lol.

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 10:59 AM

I got there at like 8:04...sorry, the last 3 times I've been there I've been waiting for 30+ minutes anyhow so forgive me if I think the 8:00 time is not really concrete lol.

lol, i didn't even rush Chris this year....I'm like whatever man, we'll leave by 630...lol

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 11:02 AM

Yup, quite an awesome play.
Was he called out? Thats the awesome part. If he was called safe thats not awesome at all.

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 11:05 AM

Was he called out? Thats the awesome part. If he was called safe thats not awesome at all.

lol...I should have known better....

no.....no he was never touched....

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 11:18 AM

My buddy just asked me a question, and i didnt know how to respond.

Why didnt Wilson play more than 2 snaps in the 2nd half? He broke off that huge run....but why did AB get 30 carries even in junk time? Just letting him pad his stats, or what? Personally i didn't care or anything, but it is odd, considering AB is an injury risk anytime he moves. lol

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 11:22 AM

My buddy just asked me a question, and i didnt know how to respond.

Why didnt Wilson play more than 2 snaps in the 2nd half? He broke off that huge run....but why did AB get 30 carries even in junk time? Just letting him pad his stats, or what? Personally i didn't care or anything, but it is odd, considering AB is an injury risk anytime he moves. lol

Bradshaw hater!!!!

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 11:39 AM

Bradshaw hater!!!!

I was ok with it while watching the game.....but in retrospec it IS fairly uncommon to have your #1 back in the entire game during a blowout like that....
So i guess it was kind of odd.

bigblue4417

10-09-2012, 11:41 AM

Remember, Dezz is Pizz and Pizz is Dezz, so he's actually been to a bunch of THEE Game's
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/NEW-YORK-GIANTS-CUSTOM-PEZ-FANTASY-/00/$(KGrHqMOKpwE0Vs,ugp0BN,,K!6jHg~~_35.JPG

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 11:51 AM

Good Ole Pez :)

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 11:53 AM

I was ok with it while watching the game.....but in retrospec it IS fairly uncommon to have your #1 back in the entire game during a blowout like that....
So i guess it was kind of odd.

Stop hating on Bradshaw Pez, he's the best RB the Giants have ever had, see how he stole that playstation back in College? he's fast, so fast you can't even tell when he runs into your house and steals your video games!

He's like the flash!

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 12:28 PM

Stop hating on Bradshaw Pez, he's the best RB the Giants have ever had, see how he stole that playstation back in College? he's fast, so fast you can't even tell when he runs into your house and steals your video games!

He's like the flash!

I....I don't even......

MattMeyerBud

10-09-2012, 01:16 PM

Stop hating on Bradshaw Pez, he's the best RB the Giants have ever had, see how he stole that playstation back in College? he's fast, so fast you can't even tell when he runs into your house and steals your video games!

He's like the flash!

last year moorehead had an Eli awakening, this year you guys had a bradshaw wake up call

byron

10-09-2012, 01:16 PM

Hey guys god it was good to see everybody again...If not for my wife agreeing to go I doubt I would have made it down ....She did all the heavy driving through NY and NJ she Awesome ! .......we only got lost once but this nice man moved his cones out of the way so we could U-turn and all was well...Big thanks to Amanda and Matt for all their hard work putting this together every year...Great food ..thanks to the chiefs Amanda and Kase !... Good friends ! and Giants football .....Awesome!!!

MattMeyerBud

10-09-2012, 01:17 PM

I got there at like 8:04...sorry, the last 3 times I've been there I've been waiting for 30+ minutes anyhow so forgive me if I think the 8:00 time is not really concrete lol.

i had to buy ice - in the words of you - blow me

byron

10-09-2012, 01:19 PM

last year moorehead had an Eli awakening, this year you guys had a bradshaw wake up call man I screwed up big time given the chain of events this year with him... I had him on the bench .....oh well I suck

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 02:06 PM

man I screwed up big time given the chain of events this year with him... I had him on the bench .....oh well I suck

I didn't even need Flacco/Stafford to decimate my opponent this week. lol wow.....what was your week total

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 02:26 PM

wow.....what was your week total

189.8.....lol

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 02:40 PM

last year moorehead had an Eli awakening, this year you guys had a bradshaw wake up call
Eli sucked in 2010 and I said so. He was much improved in 2011.

It was Eli who had the awakening. Probably inspired by Moorehead.

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 02:58 PM

Eli sucked in 2010 and I said so. He was much improved in 2011.

It was Eli who had the awakening. Probably inspired by Moorehead.

Eli's been great for a while (including 2010) he's developed a connections with his receivers that's the real difference...in 2010 his receivers ran go's when they were supposed to run curls and slants when they were supposed to run out patterns...it made Eli look like he was throwing it right to defenders a lot of the time but most of it was out of his control, now the receiving corps is doing the right thing most of the time...it makes him look better...but really he's been this good for a while...probably since 2008.

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 03:18 PM

Eli's been great for a while (including 2010) he's developed a connections with his receivers that's the real difference...in 2010 his receivers ran go's when they were supposed to run curls and slants when they were supposed to run out patterns...it made Eli look like he was throwing it right to defenders a lot of the time but most of it was out of his control, now the receiving corps is doing the right thing most of the time...it makes him look better...but really he's been this good for a while...probably since 2008.
Not even close.
But believe what you want.

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 03:21 PM

Not even close.
But believe what you want.

he's not more accurate now then in 2008, at least not by any noticeable or substantial amount...that much is for certain, so this massive "improvement" in his ability/game whatever you want to call it, where did it come from....if not from the receivers running the right routes.

the only other answer is he's calling better audibles at the line of scrimmage, I guess that "could" be true, but I think he was calling the right ones already, I think it was the receiving corps that didn't know what they were doing, I think that because they were new at the time and he had been here for 4 years already.

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 03:25 PM

he's not more accurate now then in 2008, at least not by any noticeable or substantial amount...that much is for certain, so this massive "improvement" in his ability/game whatever you want to call it, where did it come from....if not from the receivers running the right routes.

the only other answer is he's calling better audibles at the line of scrimmage, I guess that "could" be true, but I think he was calling the right ones already, I think it was the receiving corps that didn't know what they were doing, I think that because they were new at the time and he had been here for 4 years already.

He's better, more elusive and calmer in the pocket. His decision making is far better as a result.
He simply has far better command in the pocket. If you don't see it that's fine. you're half an Eli Cultist anyway. But its clear to objective fans.

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 03:39 PM

He's better, more elusive and calmer in the pocket. His decision making is far better as a result.
He simply has far better command in the pocket. If you don't see it that's fine. you're half an Eli Cultist anyway. But its clear to objective fans.

Was he not "elusive" in the 2007 Superbowl run? I think he was and was before that as well...I think you see it more often now because our O-Line is worse.
Is he calmer? I don't know, one thing he was always good at since 04" was standing in the pocket till the last second, another thing he was good at was getting rid of the ball when there was no play...he was good at it from the beginning and has remained good at it his whole career.

you keep going back to 2010 and the Int's....seriously though, watch those games again if you can, 8-10 of those Ints are tipped by our own receivers...another 8-10 of those ints are CLEAR miscommunications between him and a receiver....those Ints did not happen because he was "skittish" like you (and Reese) claim...he was never skittish...that is not a value/quality that exists in him or his family for that matter.

I'd venture to say that what you are saying is only clear to uniformed fans (which you obviously are not which is why it confuses me)

the fans who think what you are saying is true are the same fans who simple did not understand that Gilbrides offense is an option route offense and when it looked like Eli was throwing it directly to defenders he was actually throwing to where his receiver should have been, you already know that, so you know that it wasn't his accuracy that improved.

I don't want to Izbo you here Morehead but the statistics also back my theory over yours minus 2010 (which I've already explained...tips/miscommunications with young receivers) he's been pretty consistent with his completion %, TD/Int ratio, his yardage has been 4k+ since the 2009 season, even his QB Rate has been pretty consistent since 08.

he's been this good for 4 years at least...his receiving corps has just come into it's own recently.

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 03:44 PM

I can't believe two people just used the term "elusive" with Eli lol.....

I wouldnt say elusive, just maybe more 'aware' in general, which allows him to know when to move a little better.

I side with Daven on this....he isn't better....he just LOOKS better with what he has at his disposal

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 03:47 PM

Was he not "elusive" in the 2007 Superbowl run? I think he was and was before that as well...I think you see it more often now because our O-Line is worse.
Is he calmer? I don't know, one thing he was always good at since 04" was standing in the pocket till the last second, another thing he was good at was getting rid of the ball when there was no play...he was good at it from the beginning and has remained good at it his whole career.

you keep going back to 2010 and the Int's....seriously though, watch those games again if you can, 8-10 of those Ints are tipped by our own receivers...another 8-10 of those ints are CLEAR miscommunications between him and a receiver....those Ints did not happen because he was "skittish" like you (and Reese) claim...he was never skittish...that is not a value/quality that exists in him or his family for that matter.

I'd venture to say that what you are saying is only clear to uniformed fans (which you obviously are not which is why it confuses me)

the fans who think what you are saying is true are the same fans who simple did not understand that Gilbrides offense is an option route offense and when it looked like Eli was throwing it directly to defenders he was actually throwing to where his receiver should have been, you already know that, so you know that it wasn't his accuracy that improved.

He sucked in 2010. Thats simple. Not just the Int's, but his general play.
You don't have to take my word for it, listen to Tom Coughlin who said in February of 2011, that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. Which is exactly what he did in 2011. I also noticed for the first time in the Rams game that he started to dump the ball off better underneath.

And no....except for the bazaar helmet play, Eli was NOT elusive. Remember the "America's game" show on NFLN where Sean O'Hara said that Eli trips over his own feet and that the rest of the team was shocked that he avoided that sack in SB 42.

It simply is what it is. Last year he had a poorer O line and no running game and had great productivity. He has continued that this season. Yes the "Old Eli" does show his ugly face on a play here or there, but essentially he is a far more complete player than he was.

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 04:00 PM

"Old Eli" does show his ugly face.

oh, now we're name calling?!?!?!?! =P

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 04:03 PM

He sucked in 2010. Thats simple. Not just the Int's, but his general play.

yea, you are just wrong here, Eli was a very good/bordering on great QB throughout the entire 2010 season almost all of the interceptions that happened that year can easily be attributed to either receivers running the wrong routes or the ball bouncing off their chests/facemasks, I don't say that because I'm an "eli cultist" I say that because you can SEE that by watching the games....go through and count how many passes hit our receivers before being intercepted and also count how many interceptions were thrown to an area on the field where none of our receivers were even remotely close to....those ones...yeah I'm not blaming them on Eli and those ones equate to 16-20 of the ints, if everything was exactly the same now but in 2010 he went 31TD's and 7 Int's you wouldn't be saying any of the things you are saying about his improvement.....but because his receivers made mistake in 2010 you see some sort of "phantom" improvement even though he's been playing as good as he played in 2011 and this year the last 4 or 5 years.

if you ask him or his coaches or the players they are all going to say the stock answer (yes he's improved) because they are supposed to improve every year...and he does...but there is no drastic difference between the 2011 Eli Manning and the 2010 Eli Manning, the drastic changed lies mostly in the receiving corps becoming suitable.

I find it humorous that you call me an "Eli Cultist" when really what I'm doing is taking credit AWAY from Eli and giving it to Nicks/Cruz and the receiving corps.

Kase-1

10-09-2012, 04:06 PM

i had to buy ice - in the words of you - blow meI was at the wrong Wendys on 17 talking to a bunch of people who didnt look familiar and I just thought they read THEE Thread and joined in on the party until I called Lando and talked to you and found out I was at the wrong Wendys, LOL

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 04:08 PM

I was at the wrong Wendys on 17 talking to a bunch of people who didnt look familiar and I just thought they read THEE Thread and joined in on the party until I called Lando and talked to you and found out I was at the wrong Wendys, LOL

me and Pez both did that the first year, no worries.

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 04:11 PM

yea, you are just wrong here, Eli was a very good/bordering on great QB throughout the entire 2010 season almost all of the interceptions that happened that year can easily be attributed to either receivers running the wrong routes or the ball bouncing off their chests/facemasks, I don't say that because I'm an "eli cultist" I say that because you can SEE that by watching the games....go through and count how many passes hit our receivers before being intercepted and also count how many interceptions were thrown to an area on the field where none of our receivers were even remotely close to....those ones...yeah I'm not blaming them on Eli and those ones equate to 16-20 of the ints, if everything was exactly the same now but in 2010 he went 31TD's and 7 Int's you wouldn't be saying any of the things you are saying about his improvement.....but because his receivers made mistake in 2010 you see some sort of "phantom" improvement even though he's been playing as good as he played in 2011 and this year the last 4 or 5 years.

if you ask him or his coaches or the players they are all going to say the stock answer (yes he's improved) because they are supposed to improve every year...and he does...but there is no drastic difference between the 2011 Eli Manning and the 2010 Eli Manning, the drastic changed lies mostly in the receiving corps becoming suitable.

Most int's "can" be attributed to something else. Thats just NFL football. The point is that Eli was careless with the ball in 2010 AND showed a tendancy to get hyped up early in games. He had many throws in the first quarter that were high, especially short throws, which have a tendancy to be tipped in the air.
If there is any one factor that has changed with Eli its his general "calmness", which explains his avoiding those early, bad picks that he had in 2010. It also causes better pocket awareness where there used to be more panic amid a pass rush. Those dumb chucks into coverage in the face of a pass rush are far more rare with Eli. Which is EXACTLY what TC publicly complained about in his statement in Indianapolis in Feb. 2011.
You can chalk it up to more experience, more confidence, the fear of God with such a terrible 2010...or whatever. But its clear in his game.
The kid is just playing better and thats all there is to it. Lie to yourself if you must, but it doesn't change the truth.

Kase-1

10-09-2012, 04:11 PM

On the whole Eli thing, he's def stepped his game up as a QB. He seems to be way calmer in the pocket and a much more aware each season, its not just this year. Eli has been getting better each year since he got in the league, its just that in these past few he's taken the jump from Average to Good to GREAT QB

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 04:23 PM

Occam's razor favors me here I think Morehead.

What's the simpler solution?

Young inexperienced receivers improving after getting some experience?

or a 4 year veteran QB suddenly making massive improvements to his game?

I think we both know...logically, my theory makes more sense Morehead, plus statistics back my theory up as well, also it's plain to see if you've remained objective over the years (as I have unlike some Phil Simms fan boy :P)

I know, you know I'm right, but if you want to continue to "daven" me go ahead I'll play my own game, you have been getting good at it recently.

(let me pull a MMB)

1 Daven - 0 Morehead.

JPizzack

10-09-2012, 04:51 PM

Fan boy is the perfect description of MH's passionate feelings about Simms. lol

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 05:07 PM

Occam's razor favors me here I think Morehead.

What's the simpler solution?

Young inexperienced receivers improving after getting some experience?

or a 4 year veteran QB suddenly making massive improvements to his game?

I think we both know...logically, my theory makes more sense Morehead, plus statistics back my theory up as well, also it's plain to see if you've remained objective over the years (as I have unlike some Phil Simms fan boy :P)

I know, you know I'm right, but if you want to continue to "daven" me go ahead I'll play my own game, you have been getting good at it recently.

(let me pull a MMB)

1 Daven - 0 Morehead.

To me, the simplest solution is mine.
1. A QB coming off a bad season
2. A HC who states publicly that he needs to throw it away more and take more sacks.
3. Higher productivity with a worse O line and worse running game.

Simplest solution with all those conditions..... Eli has progressed like most good and determined players do and in this case become a great QB.
The least simple conclusion is to say that Eli's productivity increased as a product of better WR's when all other factors go against him like the play of the O line and the running game. Of course in the world of the Eli Cultist, Eli is always pure and good and its everyone else who drags him down.

Morehead: 22 (I don't know really. I've lost count)
Scrappy: 0

Imgrate

10-09-2012, 05:16 PM

Eli threw the ball away in 2011 more than twice as many times as he did in 2010.

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 05:22 PM

Eli threw the ball away in 2011 more than twice as many times as he did in 2010.
The view of the Cultist is of a skewed and twisted reality. A bazaar world where Eli is all knowing and wondrous.
For some reason, this false reality makes them feel a part of something that fills their empty lives.
Its sad......yet makes me love them all the more for their pathetic needs.

Imgrate

10-09-2012, 05:23 PM

The view of the Cultist is of a skewed and twisted reality. A bazaar world where Eli is all knowing and wondrous. For some reason, this false reality makes them feel a part of something that fills their empty lives.Its sad......yet makes me love them all the more for their pathetic needs.did you happen to write "a tale of two cities"

DavenIII

10-09-2012, 05:37 PM

Eli threw the ball away in 2011 more than twice as many times as he did in 2010.

and yet retained the same completion rating and took more sacks...yeah, I'm sure that's what happened lol.

I feel like Izbo, but I'm sorry you and Morehead are entitled to your own opinion I suppose...I just don't see any evidence to support it and everything you guys are saying is easily proven factually incorrect.

just from watching the games you can easily tell it's the receiving corps that's making the leap forward in ability...not Eli.

I don't know why you are so against our receivers becoming better...it doesn't make any sense.

I mean it doesn't matter to me "who" get's better...as long as the team as a whole gets better, I know why Morehead wants to say Eli got so much better....it's so he can explain that now he doesn't hate him like he used to becaue he's "better" now....I don't know why you (Lawl) are agreeing with him and twisting history though.

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 06:23 PM

and yet retained the same completion rating and took more sacks...yeah, I'm sure that's what happened lol.

I feel like Izbo, but I'm sorry you and Morehead are entitled to your own opinion I suppose...I just don't see any evidence to support it and everything you guys are saying is easily proven factually incorrect.

just from watching the games you can easily tell it's the receiving corps that's making the leap forward in ability...not Eli.

I don't know why you are so against our receivers becoming better...it doesn't make any sense.

I mean it doesn't matter to me "who" get's better...as long as the team as a whole gets better, I know why Morehead wants to say Eli got so much better....it's so he can explain that now he doesn't hate him like he used to becaue he's "better" now....I don't know why you (Lawl) are agreeing with him and twisting history though.
That's the old, sad, hysterical Scrappy that I used to know.
All is now right with the universe.

BTW...How ironic that you are now praising the WR corps that just a few years ago you called the "worst in the NFL".

Imgrate

10-09-2012, 06:39 PM

Its not made up. he threw the ball away significantly more in 2011. more than twice as many times as he did in 2010

Morehead State

10-09-2012, 07:59 PM

Its not made up. he threw the ball away significantly more in 2011. more than twice as many times as he did in 2010
Lawl...To the Cultist, anything that doesn't prove that Eli has always been great (I mean from birth) MUST be made up.

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 10:15 AM

Its not made up. he threw the ball away significantly more in 2011. more than twice as many times as he did in 2010

what evidence do you have to support that, because watching the games it certianly did not look like that was the case, and the statistics show that his Completion rate remained steady (it would have dipped a lot if he threw the ball away "Twice" as much like you claim) also they show that he took more sacks (28 vs 16) in 2011, if he was throwing the ball away he would have took less sacks.

I'm just saying Lawl, you can claim that he threw the ball away more if you want, whatever...but everything that can be looked at to see if that's the case points to the exact opposite conclusion.

perhaps you and morehead were just seeing what you wanted to see?

Imgrate

10-10-2012, 10:48 AM

You dont understand. its not a random observation. it was a hard stat from a 3rd party that was posted on the forums last year. i tried searching for it all night to no avail. you can choose to.believe me or not.

Imgrate

10-10-2012, 10:51 AM

The combination of more thrown away balls, more sacks taken and a maintained comp pct provide great evidence that he was that much better in 2011.

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 11:03 AM

The combination of more thrown away balls, more sacks taken and a maintained comp pct provide great evidence that he was that much better in 2011.

I believe he took more sacks and that is an improvement (but it goes against Moreheads "elusiveness" comment) and perhaps he did throw a few more balls away...(i'd like to see the stat though) but I believe the maintained comp pct just comes from less dropped passes and more correctly run routes by his receives.

I'm not saying Eli manning doesn't get better every year....mostly what I'm saying is that the "dramatic" improvement from 2010 to 2011 wasn't his...he made his own little adjustments and tweaks...but he was "already" very good in 2010, the "dramatic" improvement came from new receivers coming into their own and actually doing the right things and executing correctly...

little tweaks don't make dramatic changes, learning a playbook, getting used to the "speed of the game" the type of improvements 1st year to 2nd year players make...that's whats responsible for dramatic improvement.

I believe he took more sacks and that is an improvement (but it goes against Moreheads "elusiveness" comment) and perhaps he did throw a few more balls away...(i'd like to see the stat though) but I believe the maintained comp pct just comes from less dropped passes and more correctly run routes by his receives.I'm not saying Eli manning doesn't get better every year....mostly what I'm saying is that the "dramatic" improvement from 2010 to 2011 wasn't his...he made his own little adjustments and tweaks...but he was "already" very good in 2010, the "dramatic" improvement came from new receivers coming into their own and actually doing the right things and executing correctly...little tweaks don't make dramatic changes, learning a playbook, getting used to the "speed of the game" the type of improvements 1st year to 2nd year players make...that's whats responsible for dramatic improvement.He threw the ball much better when he wasn't taking a sack or throwing it away. All but on of those tipped ints in 2010 was a bad throw. the more often you throw it poorly, the greater chance you have for bad things to happen to you and that's exactly what happened.

dezzzR

10-10-2012, 11:34 AM

that doesn't really mean muchIt does to MH.

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 11:39 AM

He threw the ball much better when he wasn't taking a sack or throwing it away. All but on of those tipped ints in 2010 was a bad throw. the more often you throw it poorly, the greater chance you have for bad things to happen to you and that's exactly what happened.

No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his accuracy increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, "maybe" he was more mobile....maybe.

But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase substantially, he was still throwing the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.

That and they didn't decide to play volleyball instead of football with his passes.

Imgrate

10-10-2012, 11:43 AM

No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his "accuracy" increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, Maybe he was more mobile....maybe.But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase, he was still throwing exactly the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.there were a total of what, 2?ints that were communication errors on 2010? one of which was the gb game where nicks broke towards empty field and eli threw it to triple coverage

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 11:48 AM

there were a total of what, 2?ints that were communication errors on 2010? one of which was the gb game where nicks broke towards empty field and eli threw it to triple coverage

No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.

Morehead State

10-10-2012, 12:24 PM

No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his accuracy increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, "maybe" he was more mobile....maybe.

But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase substantially, he was still throwing the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.

That and they didn't decide to play volleyball instead of football with his passes.

Personally, I don't think Eli's accuracy improved that much at all. To me the knocks on Eli's accuracy early on were way overblown. I think his accuracy has been consistently good for several years. (with the exception of his tendency to get hyped up early in game in 2010 and make a few high throws)

His pocket presence and especially his calmness in the pocket is what got dramatically better in 2011. That seems to have continued this season as well.

You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.

Morehead State

10-10-2012, 12:27 PM

No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.
Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham were the leading WR duo in the NFL in 2010 with 20 TD's. How much did you want them to "shape up"? How many friggin Yac's did they have in 2010? They were great. Eli throws a 5 yard out at Dallas and Manningham makes a great run down the sidelines for a TD. That stuff happened all the time in 2010.
The great play of his WR's that year padded Eli's stats.

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 12:48 PM

Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham were the leading WR duo in the NFL in 2010 with 20 TD's. How much did you want them to "shape up"? How many friggin Yac's did they have in 2010? They were great. Eli throws a 5 yard out at Dallas and Manningham makes a great run down the sidelines for a TD. That stuff happened all the time in 2010.
The great play of his WR's that year padded Eli's stats.

They were good when they caught the ball no doubt, they got open no doubt...but they didn't know the audibles, they couldn't read the defense the way Eli could...so when Eli saw Blitz and they were supposed to also see blitz and change their routes accordingly .... they did not do it Morehead...now they do it, they recognize defenses last year and this year...before that they didn't so many many many times they ran the wrong routes causing Eli to throw where they were supposed to be...but they were not there....creating in my opinion, the MAJORITY of Eli's int's in 2010...not him throwing into triple coverage...not him making mistakes...it was the receivers making mistakes.

your entire "eli improvement" argument hinges on him throwing too many Int's in 2010...but I'm sorry, those int's are not on him...some are yes...but the majority of his int's in 2010 were not his fault....and they weren't "not his fault" like so many other QB's in the NFL....no he was dealing with rookies who simply did not know what they were doing yet...they had physical ability but they were not their yet...they got there in 2011 and are here now...that's why Eli is doing better..not because of tweaks he made to his game...but because his receivers have blossomed.

I've always thought Eli was great you know that...I'd love to attribute his recent statistical success to improvements he made but it just doesn't make any sense to....and frankly, it's common sense that it's not him but his receivers that are the major factor.

Imgrate

10-10-2012, 12:54 PM

No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

speaking of seeing what you want to see, please try and count 6

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 12:55 PM

You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.

you should have seen that as well in 2010...because it was there then, the problem in 2010 is that his troops didn't know their shields from their swords, they made due with their physical attributes and STILL did well, but in 2011 and now they've been through training, and now have both their physical attributes PLUS their knowledge of the game.

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 12:58 PM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

speaking of seeing what you want to see, please try and count 6

If that video worked I'm sure I could count 10, but I could point out 6 that even you wouldn't be able to dispute.

Edit: ok I found it on youtube myself using the description I will look through it and note each int for you ok? I'll come back later with a report.

Morehead State

10-10-2012, 12:58 PM

They were good when they caught the ball no doubt, they got open no doubt...but they didn't know the audibles, they couldn't read the defense the way Eli could...so when Eli saw Blitz and they were supposed to also see blitz and change their routes accordingly .... they did not do it Morehead...now they do it, the recognize defenses last year and this year...before that they didn't so many many many times they ran the wrong routes causing Eli to throw where they were supposed to be...but they were not there....creating in my opinion, the MAJORITY of Eli's int's in 2010...not him throwing into triple coverage...not him making mistakes...it was the receivers making mistakes.

.

your entire "eli improvement" argument hinges on him throwing too many Int's in 2010...but I'm sorry, those int's are not on him...some are yes...but the majority of his int's in 2010 were not his fault....and they weren't "not his fault" like so many other QB's in the NFL....no he was dealing with rookies who simply did not know what they were doing yet...they had physical ability but they were not their yet...they got there in 2011 and are here now...that's why Eli is doing better..not because of tweaks he made to his game...but because his receivers have blossomed.

I've always thought Eli was great you know that...I'd love to attribute his recent statistical success to improvements he made but it just doesn't make any sense to....and frankly, it's common sense that it's not him but his receivers that are the major factor.
I'm sorry Daven but thats pure nonsense. This notion that our WR's were making the wrong moves all year and Eli was always right is a crock.
Two perfect examples:
In SF, Manningham broke into the open and Eli threw it where MM would have had to turn into coverage. the ball was picked.
In GB, Nicks did the same thing, he broke downfield away from coverage and Eli threw it into a group of three defenders. Both were rushed throws where Eli made the completely wrong read. These were examples of Eli's tendency to make paniced throws in 2010. The WR's made the right plays, and both those plays should have been successful.

Morehead State

10-10-2012, 01:00 PM

you should have seen that as well in 2010...because it was there then, the problem in 2010 is that his troops didn't know their shields from their swords, they made due with their physical attributes and STILL did well, but in 2011 and now they've been through training, and now have both their physical attributes PLUS their knowledge of the game.
Ineresting. Since in 2011 they had no mini camps or training camps for the WR's to "learn how to play football"
No sir....This was a determined effort by Eli to improve his play. I'm giving him credit for doing it. You are obviously an Eli hater who thinks he can't get better.

byron

10-10-2012, 01:25 PM

Eli's desire to become a better football player and be the best he can be is a well known fact....Now he certainly didn't take a break from that between 2010 and 2011....The reasonable thinking here is that he is continually trying to improve his game ....Saying that there was no change in his game between 10 and 11 is like saying he was the best he could ever be in 2010.....I don't by that for an instant.....And the same goes for the wr's those that work hard will improve their game.... at least on the mental side of it.....smart hard working players become the cream of the crop if not the great players of the league.....jmho......So I look at it like this Eli along with the wr's improved their game in 2011.....

MattMeyerBud

10-10-2012, 01:30 PM

Personally, I don't think Eli's accuracy improved that much at all. To me the knocks on Eli's accuracy early on were way overblown. I think his accuracy has been consistently good for several years. (with the exception of his tendency to get hyped up early in game in 2010 and make a few high throws)

His pocket presence and especially his calmness in the pocket is what got dramatically better in 2011. That seems to have continued this season as well.

You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.

Ok Lawl I was wrong on route confusing causing the interceptions. (See I can be objective still :p)

That said I still stand by my opinion, the Receivers are the ones who made HUGE strides from 2010 to 2011 not Eli, Eli got better as he does every year but I think he's been getting better in a consistent way since he was drafted...I don't think he made any sort of major "leap" in the 2010-2011 seasons.

After watching the video I put 17 maybe 18 of those interceptions on Eli....still 31/18 isn't a terrible ratio...I doubt there would be complaints with that.

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 02:21 PM

Ineresting. Since in 2011 they had no mini camps or training camps for the WR's to "learn how to play football"
No sir....This was a determined effort by Eli to improve his play. I'm giving him credit for doing it. You are obviously an Eli hater who thinks he can't get better.

I'm almost certain I heard a story that year about how Eli was holding a camp or something for the receivers to practice with him in the 2010-2011 off season/mini-camp time frame...so whether it was a sanctioned mini camp or not they practiced with Eli and developed a better connection and a better understanding of the game.

Morehead State

10-10-2012, 04:10 PM

I'm almost certain I heard a story that year about how Eli was holding a camp or something for the receivers to practice with him in the 2010-2011 off season/mini-camp time frame...so whether it was a sanctioned mini camp or not they practiced with Eli and developed a better connection and a better understanding of the game.
Keep telling yourself that Eli didn't improve tremendously from 2010 to 2011. The objective facts suggest otherwise.

your view is tinted, you want to make your previous hate of Eli during the 2010 season and earlier...worthwhile, the fact is, you hated Eli (even when he was a good/great QB) he didn't all the sudden become great in 2011 he was already great his receivers learned the game....as is expected from "second" year receivers.

your view is tinted, you want to make your previous hate of Eli during the 2010 season and earlier...worthwhile, the fact is, you hated Eli (even when he was a good/great QB) he didn't all the sudden become great in 2011 he was already great his receivers learned the game....as is expected from "second" year receivers.
The only complaining you ever heard from me was after the 2010 season. This "Morehead hates Eli" crap is just that. My problem was much more with the oppressive Eli Cultists than Eli.
You have no friggin idea what you're talking about.
I don't want to get into how this all started because I'd be typing for a while. But the "anti Eli" thing is a bunch of crap from my perspective.

DavenIII

10-10-2012, 05:32 PM

You have no friggin idea what you're talking about.

Who called the right score for the THEE GAME again?

don't get all angry on me pappy, we just have different perspective, I really do think that Eli's supporting cast is the group that made the jump in ability in 2011 (well not the O-line or RB's pretty much just the WR's) you think Eli made some drastic improvement in his game...we can agree to disagree...this is Thee Thread after all :)

(you have to admit it's been more entertaining in here then usual today huh :P)

Imgrate

10-10-2012, 06:17 PM

Tips that should have been caught = #1/2/3/25---QTY - 4Bad passes, just bad Eli's fault = #4/6/7/8/11/13/14/16/18/19/22/23/24---QTY - 13Questionable Passes 50/50 fault = #5//9/10---QTY - 3Great defensive play = #20---QTY - 1Mistaken routes = #12/21---QTY - 2Not enough information (one quick reply couldn't see angles) = #15/17---QTY - 2Ok Lawl I was wrong on route confusing causing the interceptions. (See I can be objective still :p)That said I still stand by my opinion, the Receivers are the ones who made HUGE strides from 2010 to 2011 not Eli, Eli got better as he does every year but I think he's been getting better in a consistent way since he was drafted...I don't think he made any sort of major "leap" in the 2010-2011 seasons.After watching the video I put 17 maybe 18 of those interceptions on Eli....still 31/18 isn't a terrible ratio...I doubt there would be complaints with that.i think its pretty clear that every one of your main thoughts have been flat out proven wrong. instead of having a factual basis backing your opinion, you plan to stick to a fantasy world. makes sense.

DavenIII

10-11-2012, 10:20 AM

i think its pretty clear that every one of your main thoughts have been flat out proven wrong. instead of having a factual basis backing your opinion, you plan to stick to a fantasy world. makes sense.

yup now I'm on you and Moreheads level, you know, having an opinion without any "proof" to back it up, that said I still think young receivers making drastic improvements early in their career's is much more likely then a veteran QB making some huge leap in ability from his 7th to 8th year.

Morehead State

10-11-2012, 11:09 AM

yup now I'm on you and Moreheads level, you know, having an opinion without any "proof" to back it up, that said I still think young receivers making drastic improvements early in their career's is much more likely then a veteran QB making some huge leap in ability from his 7th to 8th year.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion (albeit incorrect),

JPizzack

10-11-2012, 11:14 AM

what is up, biznatches

DavenIII

10-11-2012, 11:26 AM

what is up, biznatches

sent you a trade offer.

Morehead State

10-11-2012, 11:32 AM

sent you a trade offer.
Whatever it is...take it Pizz. He always screws himself with trades.

JPizzack

10-11-2012, 11:33 AM

sent you a trade offer.

Yea, I was looking at it.....

Don't think I'm going to do it. The player you are offering, though good, is underperforming. And mine have better upside, and I feel more comfortable with them at the moment.

DavenIII

10-11-2012, 11:47 AM

Yea, I was looking at it.....

Don't think I'm going to do it. The player you are offering, though good, is underperforming. And mine have better upside, and I feel more comfortable with them at the moment.

he's not really under performing he was averaging about 14 pts per game his first 3 games, he had one bad game last week and was on bye two weeks ago so you don't have to worry about that anymore, but it's up to you, I think it's a mutually beneficial trade.

dezzzR

10-11-2012, 02:51 PM

This Libyan coverup will be a thorn in Obamas side come election day. Cant wait until they debate foreign policy.

DavenIII

10-11-2012, 03:13 PM

This Libyan coverup will be a thorn in Obamas side come election day. Cant wait until they debate foreign policy.

domestic policy is a bigger concern for me, the war's won't matter one way or another if we bankrupt ourselves first...Obama will continue spending us into oblivion, Romney will make the cuts necessary to get the middle class working again, Romney is for a strong middle class and that means a strong nation...after we fix ourselves then we can start worrying about the rest of the world again.

dezzzR

10-11-2012, 03:24 PM

domestic policy is a bigger concern for me, the war's won't matter one way or another if we bankrupt ourselves first...Obama will continue spending us into oblivion, Romney will make the cuts necessary to get the middle class working again, Romney is for a strong middle class and that means a strong nation...after we fix ourselves then we can start worrying about the rest of the world again.The scary thing is one top official said yesterday that 10000-20000 stingers (shoulder to air missiles) are missing from Libya. No ones reporting it. Why the hell did we give them that many?! They can shoot down our aircraft and commercial airliners. Im more concerned about domestic policy too, but not by much. Were still at war, and its not against a country, its against a belief. And theyll sit and wait us out. Look at Afghan.

Do you think this hurts his chances of reelection at all?

JPizzack

10-11-2012, 04:20 PM

I don't think one specific issue is going to do all the damage. This foreign policy ****up, combined with another bad showing at the next debate (i doubt it will be as bad), would totally sink him though.

That being said.....don't believe the "polls", every single goddamn source cites a different poll, and it's such BS. People don't always like to discuss which way they are leaning. (For example, I personally wouldn't answer a poll question, just so a pundit could use me as an example. no thx, im good)

DavenIII

10-11-2012, 04:25 PM

That being said.....don't believe the "polls"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/

you should go there for polls, what they do is take all of them and take an average, you are right, each poll is worded a different way and takes a different cross section of people...but if you combine them all together it gives you a pretty good idea of what the general populace believes.

JPizzack

10-11-2012, 04:53 PM

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/

you should go there for polls, what they do is take all of them and take an average, you are right, each poll is worded a different way and takes a different cross section of people...but if you combine them all together it gives you a pretty good idea of what the general populace believes.

combining a bunch of crappy polls just makes one large crappy poll =P

I get the point, but i still dont think it works.

Morehead State

10-11-2012, 05:21 PM

combining a bunch of crappy polls just makes one large crappy poll =P

I get the point, but i still dont think it works.
The only pollster I trust is Rassmussen. (BTW.. I went to school with Scott Rasmussen)
He nailed the previous two Presidential elections exactly right.

DavenIII

10-11-2012, 05:44 PM

combining a bunch of crappy polls just makes one large crappy poll =P

I get the point, but i still dont think it works.

I don't know, In my opinion it does...I mean the crap polls are only crap because they are bias one way or another...take all of them put them together...the bias is gone and the result is a non-crap poll, at least that's what I think.

DavenIII

10-11-2012, 05:45 PM

The only pollster I trust is Rassmussen. (BTW.. I went to school with Scott Rasmussen)
He nailed the previous two Presidential elections exactly right.

It's a good one, but any one polling agency can be unintentionally swayed one way or another...I still think taking an average from all the major polling agencies is the best course of action.

JPizzack

10-12-2012, 10:10 AM

I'm going to a Primus concert tonight, they are doing this like 3D head trip tour.....I hate 3D, but hopefully it will be cool anyway

1...play good football
2...little bit of luck
3...get the most points..."actually this is all they have to do"

I'll leave now......Go Giants!!

JPizzack

10-12-2012, 02:49 PM

keys to beating the 49's

1...play good football
2...little bit of luck
3...get the most points..."actually this is all they have to do"

I'll leave now......Go Giaints!!

hahaha. nice

DavenIII

10-15-2012, 09:57 AM

Happy Birthday MMB!

If anyone still has that Calender this would be the perfect time to post it :P

Morehead State

10-15-2012, 10:14 AM

Happy Birthday MMB!

If anyone still has that Calender this would be the perfect time to post it :P
Its NEVER a good time to post that calender.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 10:38 AM

Congrats to all on a huge win.

and congrats to myself for again losing in fantasy =(

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 10:57 AM

Cant believe the 49ers completely abandoned the run in the second half. Great win yesterday. I think Prince is going to be something special.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 11:04 AM

Cant believe the 49ers completely abandoned the run in the second half. Great win yesterday. I think Prince is going to be something special.

Yea i was surprised by that also....it's not even like it was a massive lead or anything.

this will also hush the ppl who were on alex smith's **** for the past 12 months.....yea he doesnt throw INTs because he never throws for more than 10 yards. lol
Once they took the chains off him, he was garbage....

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 11:10 AM

Yea i was surprised by that also....it's not even like it was a massive lead or anything.

this will also hush the ppl who were on alex smith's **** for the past 12 months.....yea he doesnt throw INTs because he never throws for more than 10 yards. lol
Once they took the chains off him, he was garbage....I thought he was over rated last year but I dont think thats the case. Hes a decent Qb and he runs the offense well. Hes consistent for the most part. We got a lot of pressure on him yesterday. Great coverage down field. Bout damn time Perry

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 11:15 AM

Williams is much better than Blackburn...

ny06

10-15-2012, 11:18 AM

Cant believe the 49ers completely abandoned the run in the second half. Great win yesterday. I think Prince is going to be something special.
They abandoned it because the Giants made them one dimensional. Other then a few good runs by Gore, the Giants stuffed the run all game. Fewell called a great game, and the players executed it.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 11:20 AM

I thought he was over rated last year but I dont think thats the case. Hes a decent Qb and he runs the offense well. Hes consistent for the most part. We got a lot of pressure on him yesterday. Great coverage down field. Bout damn time Perry

I feel like he can only work in a really conservative offense. im not saying he's bad....but the dude has weapons he cant even use because he's limited by his own ability.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 11:22 AM

In the first half....i was getting kind of disappointed in how we couldnt run on them. it was frustrating....and then we just opened their D up, and literally willed our run game and passing game lol

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 11:34 AM

In the first half....i was getting kind of disappointed in how we couldnt run on them. it was frustrating....and then we just opened their D up, and literally willed our run game and passing game lolIm getting a bit frustrated with TC not giving Wilson more touches. The kid can play.

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 11:39 AM

They abandoned it because the Giants made them one dimensional. Other then a few good runs by Gore, the Giants stuffed the run all game. Fewell called a great game, and the players executed it.Ehhh I thought Gore was doing ok. Cant give up on the run. especially only down by 10 going into the second. Wow Just looked up, Gore only had 8 attempts for 36 yards. 4.5 a per carry. Maybe he got hurt.

ny06

10-15-2012, 11:41 AM

Ehhh I thought Gore was doing ok. Cant give up on the run. especially only down by 10 going into the second. Wow Just looked up, Gore only had 8 attempts for 36 yards. 4.5 a per carry. Maybe he got hurt.
The blue print is out on the 49ers. Get up on them early and make Alex Smith have to beat you. It has been proven his whole career, when put into the situation to win a game he comes up short.

Morehead State

10-15-2012, 11:41 AM

Im getting a bit frustrated with TC not giving Wilson more touches. The kid can play.
There's no reason to be frustrated at all by anything from yesterday's game.
TC called a great game.

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 11:50 AM

There's no reason to be frustrated at all by anything from yesterday's game.
TC called a great game.I agree for the most part but when Bradshaw wasnt moving the ball well a nice change of pace would be good.

Morehead State

10-15-2012, 11:53 AM

I agree for the most part but when Bradshaw wasnt moving the ball well a nice change of pace would be good.
But the results prove you wrong. they stuck with Bradshaw and it paid off.

DavenIII

10-15-2012, 11:58 AM

But the results prove you wrong. they stuck with Bradshaw and it paid off.

I think our O-Line played great yesterday, it didn't seem to matter who was running the ball everyone was successful...Bradshaw still runs really hard..always has, I question sometimes his decision making with his runs...but he does always give 100+% on every carry...no one can take that away from him.

Wilson is so freaking fast though...he's just on a completely different level, that said protecting Eli is still the most important job any RB on our team has.

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 12:00 PM

But the results prove you wrong. they stuck with Bradshaw and it paid off.Well never get to see the results of changing the pace, so Im not wrong. And correct me if Im wrong but wasnt your position after week 1 it "hurts the team when hes not out there." I think you even made a thread about it.

the last two games, his first carries were Big runs. Time to give the kid a little slack on that leash. Nothing wrong with rotating 2 good backs. we want Bradshaws ankles and feet healthy come playoffs.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 01:13 PM

I hope this momentum carries us into the rougher half of our schedule. We looked like the playoff Giants yesterday,not the "just skate by Giants"....

Morehead State

10-15-2012, 01:29 PM

Well never get to see the results of changing the pace, so Im not wrong. And correct me if Im wrong but wasnt your position after week 1 it "hurts the team when hes not out there." I think you even made a thread about it.

the last two games, his first carries were Big runs. Time to give the kid a little slack on that leash. Nothing wrong with rotating 2 good backs. we want Bradshaws ankles and feet healthy come playoffs.

I'm not complaining about anything when we man handle a good team on the road like we did yesterday.
The staff had a game plan and it worked perfectly.

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 01:42 PM

Did anyone see the final moments of the Cowboys/Ravens game? Would of been livid if that was the Giants. 15 secs left and theyre standing around looking at each other, sidelines. How about line up,spike the ball and get one more play off and try to get 10 more yards for your kicker??? Couldnt believe it.

Morehead State

10-15-2012, 01:44 PM

Did anyone see the final moments of the Cowboys/Ravens game? Would of been livid if that was the Giants. 15 secs left and theyre standing around looking at each other, sidelines. How about line up,spike the ball and get one more play off and try to get 10 more yards for your kicker??? Couldnt believe it.
I think the play ended with 22 or 23 seconds left PLUS a timeout. They could have run two more plays.
Dallas is a completely defective team. Classic underachievers.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 01:47 PM

I think the play ended with 22 or 23 seconds left PLUS a timeout. They could have run two more plays.
Dallas is a completely defective team. Classic underachievers.

I love it....

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 02:01 PM

I love it....I honestly felt bad for them. That was all on Garrett and Romo. So bad.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 02:05 PM

I honestly felt bad for them. That was all on Garrett and Romo. So bad.

**** that.....

it's good comedy, and i LOVE when JERREH is spending money on losing. lol

Morehead State

10-15-2012, 02:07 PM

I honestly felt bad for them. That was all on Garrett and Romo. So bad.
Fixed that for you.

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 02:31 PM

I can think of something else to complain about yesterday(although I wasnt really complaining about Wilson), and thats how awful Osi looks. The man CANNOT contain.

Morehead State

10-15-2012, 02:33 PM

I can think of something else to complain about yesterday(although I wasnt really complaining about Wilson), and thats how awful Osi looks. The man CANNOT contain.
That's because he stinks. He better not see much of the field against RGIII next week.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 02:39 PM

I can think of something else to complain about yesterday(although I wasnt really complaining about Wilson), and thats how awful Osi looks. The man CANNOT contain.

I'm not going to disagree....

except we always talk about Osi.....yet Justin Tuck has been really bad this year.....the dude was an All-Pro, and now he looks like some random jobber we picked up as a last roster spot...

I dont know, i've been disappointed with him.

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 02:50 PM

I'm not going to disagree....

except we always talk about Osi.....yet Justin Tuck has been really bad this year.....the dude was an All-Pro, and now he looks like some random jobber we picked up as a last roster spot...

I dont know, i've been disappointed with him.Tuck isnt himself but he did get a few shots in early yesterday.

JPizzack

10-15-2012, 02:57 PM

Tuck isnt himself but he did get a few shots in early yesterday.

Oh? cuz he didnt even touch a ball-carrier yesterday.
Are you saying he was a second too late on sacks? if so, must have missed it.

I did see however Eli get absolutely leveled after a pass by i think it was Smith.....very close to being a roughing call(not that i ever think they should be roughing calls....)

dezzzR

10-15-2012, 03:10 PM

In Reese We Trust (http://www.facebook.com/pages/In-Reese-We-Trust/204765974855?ref=stream)
Osi Umenyiora (48) had more defensive snaps than Justin Tuck (40) or Mathias Kiwanuka (38). JPP had the most among d-linemen with 51.

So I went to this Primus concert on Friday night, and it was absolutely ****ing awesome.....

They had a big movie screen size 3D display for the entire show....which i thought was kinda "meh"....but on the sides of it, were these 2 massive astronauts....like made of plastic or something....and on the astronauts helmets were screens that a projector was shining onto...

on these screens? a 10 min loop of Jon Malkovich looking around, staring RIGHT at you, and making these bored looks....and it just played all friggin night. it was creepy, yet AWESOME. lol

byron

10-15-2012, 07:13 PM

So I went to this Primus concert on Friday night, and it was absolutely ****ing awesome.....

They had a big movie screen size 3D display for the entire show....which i thought was kinda "meh"....but on the sides of it, were these 2 massive astronauts....like made of plastic or something....and on the astronauts helmets were screens that a projector was shining onto...

on these screens? a 10 min loop of Jon Malkovich looking around, staring RIGHT at you, and making these bored looks....and it just played all friggin night. it was creepy, yet AWESOME. lol Did they play Wynona's Big Brown Beaver !