The Wintery Knight’s greatest fears about the future

I was asked recently to explain some of the big fears I have about the future, and I wrote a horrible paranoid screed that probably has scared her away from me for good. So, I thought I would re-write it in a more organized and sensible way.

So, I basically don’t have too many fears about the future as a single guy. I have economic fears about the future, but since I’m a good saver and having been saving all these years, I’m not worried about taking care of me because I’ve got the money to do that. And I don’t think things will get too bad before I die. Basically my fears for myself alone are because young people are being neglected by their working parents, and indoctrinated in the public schools.

Things that public schools teach:

taught Darwinism

taught sex education

taught that capitalism is evil

taught global warming alarmism

taught anti-Christian views

taught religious pluralism

taught moral relativism

taught postmodernism/skepticism

taught that Western civilization is evil

taught that America is evil

taught that war is never justified

taught that traditional marriage is wrong

…not to mention all things they don’t learn that put Christianity, America, capitalism, business, marriage and Western civilization in a positive light. I worry about how they will act and vote and demand entitlements from government to “equalize” their life outcomes after they make self-destructive decisions based on what they learned in school. And many of them are growing up without fathers which brings a whole host of other problems. But I am not too worried about this because I can always pick up and move somewhere else if things get really bad here.

But these fears pale in comparison to my fears about what might happen if I took on marriage and parenting. That’s when things could really go downhill fast, and all the chastity and money in the world won’t save me.

Below I’ll summarize some of the biggest problems:

The biggest fear I have about marriage is that my wife will be pressured to abandon the idea that marriage and parenting is about self-sacrificial love of her husband and children in order to please God. That could mean ignoring or not meeting my needs as a man for things like sex and approval. It could also mean just giving up on the children and refusing to protect their worldviews from the outside world, e.g. – the public schools, Hollywood, etc. Maybe she will just become totally disinterested in the threats posed to the children by these enemies? Or undermine my efforts to teach the children theology, apologetics and morality?

I am also concerned about increasing encroachment by the state into the education of children. I hear stories about homeschooling being outlawed, about parents not being able to opt children out of anti-Christian educational programs, about children as young as five being put on hate registries for being politically incorrect, and homeschooled children being placed in government-run schools for believing that Christianity is true. My fear is that this trend could get worse to the point where children are seized by the government because they are being taught Biblical Christianity in the home.

What if government spends so much money that they end up increasing inflation and raising taxes such that my wife has to go to work, or that I lose my job due to economic decline? Without money, it is almost impossible for us to protect the children from all of the anti-Christian influences we would face. If we took government money or relied on government services (e.g. – health care) then we might even have to comply with government regulations and conditions that would be antithetical to our plans.

I am also afraid that I will be charged by something like the Canadian Human Rights Commissions for expressing traditional Christian views in public. In Canada, there is no such thing as free speech. If you cause someone to feel badly with your speech, you will be placed on trial for several years, pay about $100,000 in legal fees, and then you will be convicted, forced to apologize, force to deny your Christian faith in public, and prohibited from speaking freely in any public forum including on web sites or e-mail.

I am concerned that government programs that push feminism, no-fault divorce and generally paint men as irresponsible and aggressive could turn my wife against me and cause her to divorce me for the money. I read a lot about divorce courts, fake charges of domestic violence, etc. And I think there is a concerted effort to paint men as being unreliable, aggressive and harmful to children. What if my wife began to believe all of these myths and felt that she could do a better job parenting the children without me? The children would be harmed, I would be penniless and I might never see my children again.

Finally, I am worried that she will become less tolerant about my desires to be romantic and chivalrous and just sort of check out of the marriage emotionally. That she will not give me things to do, or dragons to slay, trophies to collect, etc. That she won’t speak to me for long periods of time, or write to me, spend time alone with me. I worry that she will instead become interested in her own interests and causes and forget that I need a romantic relationship with her! I’ll die if I can’t express myself romantically.

So I hope this explains to all a little bit about why I am skeptical about marriage, even if I met a perfect person to marry. I would like to see a lot more work being done by the church to focus on things like fiscal conservatism, small government and politics. As it stands, I am not hearing very much that is re-assuring me that potential Christian wives are as aware about these issues as I am, or that they are prepared to fight them.

When I talk to Christian women, they are usually not aware of any of these concerns, and in fact are quite secular and leftist in their voting. This is very disconcerting to me because it seems like they are not applying their state Christian beliefs to their future plans for marriage and parenting. Instead, they are happily voting for bigger and bigger government and they are oblivious to how this undermines Christian marriage and family.

When I ask them what they have read about these issues, they are usually reading Christian self-help books, devotional literature, theology-lite (Phillip Yancey), emergent church, social justice stuff from the religious left, sensational Dan Brown fiction that undermines the Bible’s authority and makes women appear to be the victims or men, or end-times fiction. Many read things like “Blue Like Jazz” or other mystical craziness. Are there any women out there who read Thomas Sowell and Wayne Grudem and William Lane Craig and Stephen C. Meyer and Craig Evans and Stephen Baskerville and Jennifer Roback Morse? Or even Lee Strobel and C.S. Lewis, for starters?

I think some of these problems might go away if I married someone with the foreign policy views of Marsha Blackburn, the fiscal conservatism of Michele Bachmann, and the social conservatism of Jennifer Roback Morse. But one woman cannot remake the whole world. One woman can’t get taxes lowered, secure school choice, protect religious liberty, and get the government out of the marriage and away from the children.

And it’s not just that there are problems today – it’s tomorrow, too. I am quite surprised at how passionately young people advocate for ideas that undermine their own liberty, prosperity and security. The very things needed to make Christian marriage and Christian parenting work. Can one woman fix the irrationality of the young people who are voting today? I don’t think that one woman can fix everything.

Well, Michele Bachmann can fix everything if we would just vote her in as President, like I want. If we put Michele in charge of the world, then I’ll get married.

What’s wrong with “Blue Like Jazz”? Really? Mystical? Really? I grew up Pentecostal, and have been a member of an evangelical charasmatic church- so I am quite familiar with the “mystical” side of Christianity, if you want to refer to it that way. Donald Miller is artsy, maybe a little too poetic for those who prefer their literature in prose. But he remains within the bounds of evangelicalism, so I want to know what’s your objection. If he’s not your cup of tea, okay- some people like darjeeling some chai.

And for the record, I own some Lee Stroebel, some Hank Haneegraaf, CS Lewis and GK Chesterton. Variety is the spice of life, Wintery!

I worry about the way you despair, sweet. I started with Lee Strobel and CS Lewis, now I’m reading Grudem, Sowell, Piper and MacArthur. I don’t think I’m the only woman in the world who takes God, husband and children seriously, and I don’t even think I’m in a serious minority. There is someone out there for you, and I can’t wait until you meet her.

This blog post was nothing less than BRILLIANT!! You are wise and intelligent to be concerned about these things.

1) I completely agree with you about the direction you see western society heading in. The future is a very scary place as the government will get more and more involved in every area of our lives and start militantly pushing secular values and corroding Christian values, ultimately to the point of actively persecuting Christians.

But you have to realize that these past 200+ years we have been living in is an anomaly. Christians have always been persecuted since the beginning. Why should we be any different? It would be an honor to be persecuted and have your faith tried in the fire. What better way to prove your allegiance to God?

Of course I understand about the possibility of subjecting your children to the hostile world, but remember that God promises to protect those who are faithful from the time of tribulation.

2) Don’t listen to the others here who are so dismissive of your fears of divorce. Prenuptial agreements are fine for dividing up property and alimony issues, but they will do nothing for you if you have children with your wife and she takes you to the cleaners for child support. And the fact of the matter is that 50% of all marriages end up in divorce in our culture. Those are just the cold hard numbers, and I see this everywhere I look in my life experience.

And I don’t recommend getting a pre-nuptial agreement when you get married as that is just a tacit admission that you both see divorce as a distinct possibility for the future. Instead, if you are that worried about it I would recommend getting a covenant marriage.

Of course there are things you can do to reduce the odds from 50% down to say, 10%. But there will always be risk as all human beings (including yourself) are selfish and sinful.

Even if you married the best Christian woman on the face of the Earth, there would be a risk that your children might not become Christians, or your grandchildren, etc. etc.

Relationships are full of risk. That is why they are so gratifying when they work out. When you think about it, God took great risks when He created the angelic hosts and human beings and gave them all free will to accept or reject Him. And many of them did use their free will to reject Him.

Don’t make the mistake of trying to play it safe all the time. There are some awesome Christian women out there. Just be sure to be very careful about who you pick and make sure that you are on the same page on all the essential issues.

And don’t underestimate the power of prayer. God can direct you to the right person if you put this in His hands.

“Prenuptial agreements are fine for dividing up property and alimony issues, but they will do nothing for you if you have children with your wife and she takes you to the cleaners for child support. And the fact of the matter is that 50% of all marriages end up in divorce in our culture.”

If your wife can’t get alimony or marital property from you, she has little incentive to divorce. Child support probably won’t be a sufficient motivation to bail.

“And I don’t recommend getting a pre-nuptial agreement when you get married as that is just a tacit admission that you both see divorce as a distinct possibility for the future.”

I strongly disagree. A prenuptial agreement is a DETERRENT against divorce. And a covenant marriage is just a type of prenuptial agreement, and not all states even have them.

“If your wife can’t get alimony or marital property from you, she has little incentive to divorce. Child support probably won’t be a sufficient motivation to bail.”

Child support amounts are fairly generous these days, especially if multiple children are involved. And the woman has a huge advantage in getting custody of the children in family courts.

Also consider that child support payments are tax-free for the person receiving them. I am paying nearly a $1000 a month for just one child in the state of TN. Even though I make a good income as a software developer and have enough to get buy, having to pay that $1000 a month really slows me down in things like paying my house off early and saving up for my daughter’s college education.

Furthermore, many people try to challenge a prenuptial agreement or find loopholes to get around it. Someone unsavory enough to back out on their marital commitment would have no problems trying to do this. If they did try, at the very least you are looking at a substantial expense fighting the challenge in court, even if you end up winning.

I do believe that prenuptial agreements are warranted under special circumstances, however. For example, lets say a widower with children gets remarried. I think it would be a good idea in order to protect the children of the first marriage to have a prenuptial agreement, if the widower’s assets were substantial.

“I strongly disagree. A prenuptial agreement is a DETERRENT against divorce. And a covenant marriage is just a type of prenuptial agreement, and not all states even have them.”

I’d have to see studies that back this up. From my perspective, if you are talking about prenuptial agreements before you get married you are already admitting that divorce is a possibility and you want to work out the details beforehand to save money and stress later on. This to me is not the best way to start a marriage.

And even if you could protect 100% of your assets with a prenuptial agreement, the woman could still walk out, move in with another man and take your children with you. No amount of money is worth that. I have a friend who has three children whose wife recently walked out on him and did that very thing. Even though she is not trying to take him to the cleaners financially (she is fairly well off with a great career of her own), she was wreaked a tremendous amount of emotional damage to her husband and children. A prenuptial agreement does nothing for cases like this.

I didn’t say a prenuptial agreement was the solution to every problem known to man. I said that if you get a prenuptial agreement AND marry a righteous woman, you probably have little to worry about in terms of divorce. If your wife absolutely gets gleamy-eyed over the thought of $12,000 per year to spend on the kid, or if she just absolutely hates you and finds someone better to run off with, then no, even a lack of alimony and property won’t do much to stop her. But at least you’ve cut out the monetary incentive for most SANE women.

If she challenges the prenuptial agreement, then have written into the agreement that she must pay your court costs and legal fees for challenging it.

And unless you’re in some third-world state like Great Britain or if you fail to disclose your assets before the marriage, the agreements generally aren’t overturned.

I think you can even write into it that the law from the state where it’s signed will govern the agreement. Hence, you can get married somewhere good like Tennessee and have that state’s law govern, and not worry even if you later move somewhere less solid. But I don’t really know that much about choice-of-law so it’s conceivable I’m wrong.

I hear all this talk about how prenuptial agreements can lead to divorce, and I say it’s mere romantic garbage taught by sexist women and by ignorant and lazy men who are too deceived by lust to secure their own rights.

Don’t know, Drew.
When a culture or way of thinking is determined to make women dependant on men by encouraging them to stay home take care of kids and not bring in an income they reduce her value to the greater society and the work force in the present and future. Then when said way of thinking throws in a prenup like you are talking about, I think the women of that culture may very well be better off remaining single for the sake of survival and to stop the feminization of poverty.

My husband went through a mid-life crisis. We were this close (fingers a millimeter a part)to divorce because HE was unhappy, wanted to be a teenager again, felt the church lied to him and stole his best years. He was angry at me, God, the whole world for getting older and wanted to feel young again.

A prenup like yours would have made me sorry-out-of-luck and would have given him a free pass to join the ranks of self-centered men across the globe who think it’s all about how the rest of the world can make them happy.

You want to stack the deck so in favor of men to protect yourself and have such an “oh-well-stinks-to-be-you” attitude towards women it amazes me that you wonder at this ‘herd mentality’.

Women HAVE to stick together. It’s their only defense against men who want to run roughshod over them.

Sure, there are a few female hot-numbers out there who use their feminine wiles to get what they want out of life. And a few of them have a heart to screw over a man. Perhaps they saw what being ‘good girls’ did for mothers/sisters/friends… divorce, abandonment, fighting for child support, living in a dive while ex and new hot-number are living it up in Cancun.

There’s two sides to this coin, Drew. You behave as though all men are good and have the best intentions towards women and the women are evil and can’t be trusted.

I know way better than that. Evil is equal opportunity. And it is never right to stack the deck against one gender over the other. I say that being a mother and NOT wanting the deck stacked against either my daughters or sons.

Sure there can be a prenup, but no woman better sign one that leaves her poverty level when hubby has a mid-life crisis. She better just work on her own job skills, make her own money, and determine never to be dependant on a man whether in a marriage or single. Because being made dependant then being abandoned is hell.

Women initiate the vast majority of divorces. Also, I doubt that Wintery Knight is going to file any unjustified divorce. But if that were seriously a concern, I imagine that you could probably design the prenup to punish whichever spouse initiated the divorce, absent cheating or abuse or whatever (similar to the covenant marriage mentioned above).

In any case, these agreements never leave the woman absolutely destitute, so your fears are unjustified. The default family laws are strongly anti-men, so prenups are necessary to even the playing field. If your argument is simply that you needed a strong governmental threat hanging over your husband to keep him in line, then even though it’s conceivable that such a threat did save *your* marriage, I still think it’s bad policy. Matriarchal law doesn’t preserve family; it destroys it.

When hubby, going through second teenagehood, saw that he was going to have to share his money, that the divorce would put us both down to poverty level, not just me, it made him realize it wasn’t worth it.
We’re doing much better now, that we are past that point, btw. Thanks for your concern.

All I heard from you was “Let’s make divorce hard for women to seek” when it already is emotionally hard, on both men and women.

If, in fact, women seek the large majority of divorces, perhaps instead shooting first and asking questions later, one ought to look into why?

I know, I know. The pat answer here might be…

FEMINISM! THAT’S THE ENEMY!

But is it really?
Or is feminism just exposing what was already wrong with marriage.

I.E. If a dependant woman back in the 1800s found her husband cheating on her, she most likely would stay with him anyway because there would be nothing else for her to do. And he could go on cheating to his heart’s content and believe that since he brings home the bacon, he’s entitled.

Now, it’s not so. If a woman finds her husband cheating, rather than having to stay and catch some disease that might kill her. She can leave. And her ability to threaten divorce might actually save the marriage and stop the man from cheating.

Same with abuse. Before, women had not recourse. Now they do. And is that so bad?

So instead of saying the death of marriage is because of feminism, perhaps it might be wise to consider that feminism is just exposing what has been wrong all along. And instead of focusing on eradicating feminism and making it hard for women to get divorces, it might be better to work on getting rid of the reasons women turn to feminism and divorce.

One of those things is a sense of male entitlement that leads to cheating and abuse, among other things. It is pretty universal. And it comes from patriarchy which, if IT preserves marriages, it does so by taking away rights, freedoms, and sometimes even the personhood of women, as displayed by patriarchal Islam, Hinduism, and some branches of Christianity.

I really don’t agree with Mara’s viewpoint that women leaving their husbands are largely the result of adultery or abuse. I do agree that these things have happened in the past and still happen today, and that in these types of cases alimony and child support are well justified.

From my personal experience, women tend to leave for all sorts of reasons, often that they are emotionally unsatisfied, bored, feeling like they have missed out on life because they married early, or “verbally abused” by their husbands.

It’s very much a victim and entitlement mentality that they deserve to happy, regardless of the consequences to their husbands or children. 70% of all divorces are initiated by the female, and the majority of these cases do not involve adultery or physical abuse from the male spouse.

I guess I would like to amend my opinion. Here is what I would postulate to improve our current conditions in society:

IF one is going to insist that no-fault divorce be the law of the land then:

1) ALL marriages have to have a mandatory prenuptial agreement. This way if someone (usually the man) gets taken to the cleaners then he at least walks into it with both eyes open.

2) There should be a STRONG legal assumption from the beginning that the child custody schedule will be an even 50/50 split, if both spouses want access to the children, unless there is a strong and compelling reason not to do so.

3) We should have a marriage tax credit that goes up every year that a couple is married. In the event that divorce happens and a person remarries another person, this tax credit is reset to the amount that it was at year 1.

wgbutler777,
It’s possible that I am dealing with a small subset of women, Christian women who went into Christian marriage with Christian men (church going men) within the confines of church who wanted to ban the word ‘divorce’ from their vocabulary. But now these women are now having to consider divorce because of real abuse etc. These women are going through the terrible trauma of being failures, being out-casts because somehow, in their circles, a woman, all by herself, is supposed to be able to keep the marriage together and if anything goes wrong it is automatically assumed that it’s the woman’s fault.

I don’t really deal with secular women or men or their marriages on this. I figure, the world is as the world does.

Honestly don’t mind a prenup if it punishes no one and is fair.

Just sorry out of my mind that it has to exist among Christians. It should not have to.

Jesus said that Moses gave Israel the right to divorce because of the hardness of their hearts.

I echo most, if not all, of wgbutler’s comments. Many of your fears about marriage can be alleviated with a somewhat lengthy courtship period. My wife and I were a bit over seven years between our first date and the date of our wedding. At that point, marriage was almost a mere formality. We had gotten well past the “bubble” stage, where one tends to ignore the red flags that signal real trouble down the line. It gives a couple the time to deal with ANY red flags to see if the issues are really even important to either in the first place, as well as to truly measure one’s level of tolerance when any of the issues really are important. If they are important, there’s time to work on resolutions. Should there be no way to resolve an issue, then it’s pretty clear the union should not go forward.

As to the length of time a courtship should last, seven years might not be necessary for most people. It just kinda happened that way. Perhaps it would have been different if we were celebate the whole time, which we weren’t. Neither of us were intensely religious and she was the lesser of the two of us on that score. (We became more concerned when we began to plan for a child.)

In your case, where your faith and devotion is stronger at the get-go, sex might not be an issue with a woman who shares your perspective. One need only guard against the feeling that the relationship is heading toward marriage, so what the heck. But if the two of you are close on matters beyond the desire for each other, 3-5 years of engagement might be enough. I don’t see less than three years a good idea at all.

The character “Hawkeye” in the TV show Mash said one time in regards to finding a mate, “We’re looking for a perfect fit in an off-the-rack world.” There will always be something about which both parties would prefer in the other. There is a degree of tolerance (of a more legitimate kind than how the word is abused today) in any relationship and the tighter one is (and few are tighter than a marriage) the more forgiving and tolerant one must be. There is no truly perfect match. Don’t hold out for one.

Sex before marriage is unbiblical, and long engagements are unbiblical because they provide strong temptation for sex before marriage and needlessly waste away the woman’s fertile years. Hence, I disagree with your idea.

I wasn’t condoning sex before marriage, only saying I engaged in it for the sake of clarity and honesty in my response.

Long engagements unBiblical? That’s a new one on me. Got a chapter and verse for that? Long engagements allow the couple to get well past infatuations that lead to judgements that aren’t based on reality. Most people are easily blinded by their infatuation with each other and too willing to ignore, or for others, never even notice the very faults and shortcomings they would never tolerate in anyone else, and that will lead to resentments and the desire to divorce. Happens all the time and far too often. The high divorce rate should indicate that to anyone.

I agree with Marshall Art. I like courting from a distance as well in order to encourage writing. It gives me time to calm down between the face to face encounters. Bringing in Christian friends and family to watch us talk is also a great idea.

“Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.” 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 NASB

“May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your YOUTH.” Proverbs 5:18

“If you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full MONTH, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.” Deuteronomy 21:11-14

And I renew my common-sense objection that a wife depreciates as she ages, in terms of beauty and fertility. There’s a reason why women freak out when they turn thirty.

Wow, interesting perspective, Drew. I guess that men don’t age in your neck of the woods, they don’t take flomax, or Viagra and have prostate problems, thinning hair and spare tires. Where I live, Drew, men depreciate at the same rate as women. And, in fact, most of the women I know are better preserved than their spouses of the same age.

I thought 1 year will be a good time. But GOD made it clear that we belong together in until 5 month. We married after less a year after starting courting each other. And we started our courtship one week after our first meeting!

My wife and I had both a sexual “history” (both had one real relationship before) before we got to know each other.

But GOD changed our hearths through the books from Joshua Harris and the Webzine Boundless.org – that pointed us to the bible.

If you do it right (the biblical way) you can decide in less than a year! But read all articles on Boundless.org first! ;o)

I recently discovered your blog and can’t tell you how impressed I am. As far as I can tell you are a college student, but your insight and reasoning far outstrip your years. I am a 43 y.o. mother of a 15 y.o. daughter (may the Lord give me patience and strength), married for 17 years now. First, as far as getting married, there are good Christian women out there, but expecting women your age to be as politically involved and astute as yourself, may be too much. As I said, you exceed your years in insight. Concern for the shenanigans of politicians usually begins when one begins paying taxes and increases when one is trying to raise children. Give the women you meet time to grow. Also, your concerns for “enough” sex in marriage is overblown. If you love and honor your wife, her love for you will result in a desire for the intimate time and connection of sex. I don’t see you choosing a self absorbed woman who would be callous enough or un-loving enough to reject the physical expression of love. Second, as far as having and raising children. I had concerns about this also when considering having children. All of the “what-ifs.” What if the world goes to hell; what if I fail in raising my child; what if I end up divorced; what if… However, I also thought, “What if it is my child the world needs. What if I can raise my child to be a light in an increasingly dark world? What if my child can grow up to show the love of Christ to a world that increasingly needs it? So, I have raised my daughter with the first priority to Love and Honor God; her education has come second. I considered homeschooling, but there weren’t as many options and help when it was time for her to enter, so we chose David Lipscomb a Church of Christ affiliated school. My husband and I were both raised in the C.o.C. and lucky enough to live here in Nashville where there is a wonderful school. Your work on this blog is wonderful and a powerful tool for God. Keep it up!

I would have written the same list of false “Things that public schools teach”! It seams to be all the same in western culture. (I’m from Germany!)

You said:
“When I talk to Christian women, they are usually not aware of any of these concerns, and in fact are quite secular and leftist in their voting.”

I’m sure you will find a godly Christian woman that will fear the Lord and will be the Helper suitable for you! :-)

I had to search a log time but know I’m happily married to the best wife in the world!

Another thing:
I don’t think you have to talk with your wife all the time about all the problems in the world! I’m sure my wife is aware of my concerns. But I also know that if I would tell her every thing I read about the growth of ISLAM in Europe (www.islam-watch.org) – that wouldn’t let her sleep anymore!

Maybe you want to share your concerns with all your brothers in the Lord – but not only your wife! ;-)

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket- safe, dark, motionless, airless–it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable.” C.S. Lewis

Sorry, just had to put that up.

I’m going to agree that evil is an equal opportunity employer. Maybe there are more women divorcing than men, but a lot more men (about 70%, 50% of Christian guys) get into pornography (which tears their wives to shreds) for example. Do women get to take all the money and kids if they catch their husband viewing stuff?

Not to minimize the divorce problem at all. It’s awful. However when 40% of children are born without fathers (up to 70% in some communities) it can’t all be the fault of one sex. There was actually a reason why Dad’s used to look out for their daughters and insist on “shotgun weddings”. They knew that given the choice a lot of young men would prefer to run away from their responsibilities. Even in casual sexual relationships women get hurt far more badly than men because they get emotionally attached to their partner way more than men do because of their hormones.

And I really think you guys are a little off balance in thinking that women just want to marry and divorce guys (as a general rule) because they are greedy for money. Women have to split the family income in divorce too. That isn’t too say that they don’t divorce for even more foolish reasons (finding themselves for example) but rationality in all things, eh?

Oh and one last quote from Chesterton who (contra opinions aside) is one of the greatest Christian writers ever. Well actually on looking it is almost impossible to quote (too long) so if anyone is interested you can look up (There is a free ebook) What is Wrong With the World. Find the Section (3?) on Feminism and read it. It is a long thing on why women are not in general, and should not be, very much into politics. Chesterton was a very clever person. And I say that as a politically minded women. I have to admit that even I, a political blogger, sees a great deal more sense and use in learning to cook some fancy dinner than in reading a book on economics.

Let’s glorify the masculine and the feminine. Not just one or the other.

I think the best way to make sure of this is to make the person read books and then write about what they’ve read to prove they at least understand things like the effect of divorce on children, etc. I do not trust 1) bare agreement, 2) bare Bible quotes, 3) bare theologian quotes, 4) unproven Lewis/Chesterton quotes. I trust women who cite the data and are passionate about that data. I think if women can cite the data like you do, then write about it, that’s the best sign.

“And I really think you guys are a little off balance in thinking that women just want to marry and divorce guys”

I agree. I think the reason why there are so many divorces is because many women are attracted to bad boys who are handsome, funny, non-judgmental and a source of drama. These women hope to change them into husband material after the marriage. And not changing them by persuasion like Dr. J might, but by repetitive commands and emotional maneuvering, threats of divorce and/or false charges of domestic violence. 70% of divorces are initiated by women and the costs (financial and custody) inevitably fall heavier on the man than the woman. She will get the marital home, alimony, child support, and full custody. The majority of his gross income as well as the home. That’s why in that latest podcast Dr. Morse mentions that shared parenting laws deter women from divorcing. If women know that they will have to deal with the man afterward, they are less like to divorce.

I don’t think that most women think it through either… they think that a divorce will solve all their problems. It’s not a rational belief.

I don’t agree with Chesterton, or your assessment of his importance to Christian thought. He was living in a different time when the threats to marriage were considerably lower. Back then women maybe didn’t have to know as much about politics. But that time has gone. But maybe I am wrong – does he offer any objective evidence from the real world for his assertion?

I love that C.S. Lewis quote. I think men and women need to allow themselves to feel emotions after they’ve judged people on Christian/chivalry grounds and found that the person passes. Just don’t touch the person and you can feel whatever you want without getting hurt.

All the focus here on what a prospective partner might read to me is a substitute for emotional skills and spiritual maturity. Expertise in a subject isn’t the same as mastery or it. Or living it, which is why relationships aren’t improved by books as much as they are improved by people with the ability to sacrifice, be joyful and well mannered because they have the natural inclination to be that way, either through their own insight, temperament or experience. Sure, it helps to have common interests, but if your entire focus is on “teaching” someone, then get a teaching job, Wintery. No one wants to be instructed for life by another. It assumes that one partner is higher than the other, which, besides being completely narcissistic is a sure recipe for failure.

Depends what you mean by love. It you mean acting in a way that effectively holds up your relationship obligations to God, your partner, your children, as well as the liberty, prosperity and security of generations yet unborn, then it’s a great proposition. If you mean disregarding all prudence, rationality and morality and embracing selfish feelings that cause disobedience to God, and destruction to your partner, your children and the fabric of society now and forever, then it’s a lousy proposition.

I didn’t say you weren’t loving, W. But you don’t ever mention it, and very few of your posters do, which I find odd for a Christian, since the one quality that God is defined in the Bible is Love and Christ commands us to love God, love neighbors and enemies.

All that other business you mention is political. The two are not related but are often confused.

Thanks, Mara. My record for a conversation with a woman is 9.25 hours. And we were talking about interesting things that entire time. 4 hours is typical.

I think people need to understand that one of the main purposes of me being chaste is to have heightened sensory experiences and to fall in love more quickly and more deeply, based on deep sympathy and intimacy from conversations and writing. Like Mara said, it’s not for me to expose my feelings in public. Those women who know me more privately could say a lot more about me.

That yes please was to Mara, BTW, for the sites she mentioned. And Wintery, the love I am speaking of isn’t a “chickified” version, nor is the Love mentioned in the Bible that defines God, which is spiritual. No one speaks about that here and it’s just weird. No one talks about forgiving, not judging, forbearance, charity. No one talks about the acts of the Good Samaritan, Jesus’ healing works–these were works of love that transcended the female or male view of what “love” is. How come no one talks about that?

As to W’s interpretation of the purpose of being chaste being to heighten sensory experience, if what you mean is human sensory experience, then I would disagree, but if it is to heighten spiritual sense, then I am in full agreement. I think the unintended consequence for too many people is that they become obsessed with the sensual aspect of not having sex, which is almost as bad as being preoccupied with the actual act.

Yes, there is a difference between mushy, chick-flick emotion and the even DEEPER issues of the heart as displayed in such movies as LOTR and the Passion of the Christ. Heart issues like truth, justice, sacrifice, brotherhood of men (and women) etc.

Ps 41:1 My heart is astir by noble themes. I address my verses to the King. My tongue is the pen of a ready writer.
vs 7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, you God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

I still maintain, dealing with the mental, brain, intellectual issues is fine and wonderful. But if you neglect the things of the heart, you lose the battle to change America. You have to get their hearts along with their minds, not just their minds alone.

“I think the best way to make sure of this is to make the person read books and then write about what they’ve read to prove they at least understand things like the effect of divorce on children, etc.”

(Gentle shaking of the head.) Aww, Wintery – by all means, find out what your love interest believes through really getting to know her, but please, please, PLEASE don’t make her write book reports. Just trust me on this one. :)

Seriously, that probably wouldn’t help in any case. Depth of commitment in marriage isn’t proportional to intellectual knowledge about it. People don’t need to know the statistics for it to be obvious that divorce is an awful, hurtful thing for everyone involved, especially children. Most people who get divorced KNOW that. Someone who is emotionally and mentally stable and who believes deeply that divorce is not an option is the best bet, whether she can cite divorce statistics or not.

The person that is right for you will agree with you on the fundamentals, and obviously it is important that she follows Christ… However, if she has somewhat different political or philosophical views than you do, God might have a good reason for that. ;)

For a Christian, the really important things are to be sensitive to the Spirit’s guidance and to consider the practical side as well. Early in our dating, I knew that my husband was the one that God had destined for me. Freaked me out, actually. That knowledge was backed up by the facts that (a) I am not impulsive or fanciful in that way, and (b) my husband was already a fantastic Christian, hard-working, capable of supporting a family, stable and loving, and able to sustain good relationships with family and friends.

(Very happily married to the perfect man for me, 12 years and counting, 2 kids, having more fun with him every year.)

I disagree. Whether it is on capital punishment, pro-life, traditional marriage, gun control, taxes, welfare, multiculturalism, global warming or evolution, etc., I need to have my future wife be informed. And I won’t take her word for it. I won’t take Bible verses for it. Or even theology. I want arguments and evidence for every major area. When you have people like Jim Wallis, John Dominic Crossan and Barack Obama calling themselves Christians, you have to be careful. People use the word but they have no idea what it means practically. Because they’ve never read anything about developing a Christian worldview. They are basically functionally atheists who accept feminism, postmodernism, moral relativism and maybe socialism, environmentalism and pacifism, then they go to church to sing on Sundays.

I have noticed though that many women really don’t include God in their criteria when searching for a mate. For example, many want to be approved of and accepted without having to test their views or be led spiritually. Many want the man to get along with non-Christian friends and relatives without getting into any discussions about what is really true. Many want the man to keep quiet at work rather than lose his job by standing on principles. Many want to be able to do anything they want without being judged or held accountable. Many want the man to keep working harder and harder as taxes mount and the government encroaches more into the family.

In short, many want to avoid thinking Christianly about marriage and parenting. Marriage and parenting are not really viewed as a way to serve God, but as a way to serve themselves in this life. Many don’t want a man who serves God, they want a man who serves them. Many fear abandonment, so they deliberately choose men who are not very strong on moral and spiritual issues – many women today don’t want to be judged or held accountable. Many don’t want to be led. Many don’t want to read. Many don’t want to write.

Nothing is known through feelings or assertions. Only by reading AND/OR experiencing directly or through discussions can a person learn about the concerns that I outlined. The problem is that so many women think they know without having investigated these issues at all. But just saying the right thing doesn mean that you have the knowledge that will lead to right actions. Many young women who say the right things go on to vote for things like no-fault divorce and same-sex marriage without really understanding what it does to children – because it seems compassionate to them to worry more about the freedom of adults to treat marriage as a loose arrangement meant to fulfill the needs of adults. And the idea that marriage and parenting would benefit God in some way? Completely off the radar for everyone.

Sorry to be cranky, there is obviously another side to this where men are COMPLETELY dropping the ball – they have no idea how to court and do not involve their Christian convictions in their courting.

Maybe I didn’t make my points very clearly – basically, being able to quote statistics on a subject is no guarantee of right actions. “The devil can quote Scripture,” after all. Commitment is most secure if it is supported by BOTH reason and gut-level belief. Which is more important probably varies through time for most people. Being “informed” is no guarantee, and although I think it’s important, it’s only part of the equation.

How many “informed” people do you know who have acted contrary to their own beliefs? I know plenty. I also know plenty of people who let their emotional fluctuations rule their actions, and that’s no good either. If you have both information AND emotional/visceral dedication, one can often take up the slack when the other fails to be enough.

And telling a woman to write you a book report as part of a romantic interview process will not go over well. ;) Just get to know her well, for heaven’s sake. A person can write anything (look at politicians in general), but if you know her well enough, you’ll get a much better idea of her real convictions. And it will save you from getting a glass of water over the head when you start delivering assignments. ;)

Thanks for your comment. You’re such a good sport. I actually do things in reverse too, by the way. I get asked to pray, read, write, go to church, give her things. I am sending one young lady an Ipod, plus I buy her things out of her Amazon wish list for Christmas and her birthday. It’s mutual. I am accenting the man’s role in leading because he has the requirement to lead that way.

I know women don’t like being forced to write – I am saying that things are dangerous now, and they have to do it for the good of the marriage and the family. And the man has to lead to show them how he will exercise his “headship” and parent the children and protect the family from lies that can harm.

I totally agree with you. Men today are just HORRIBLE!!!! I almost cry when I think of raising a daughter today – the fact that she will be having to choose a husband from men who have been exposed to sex so early is just devastating to me when I think about my role as a father. I don’t know what to do about this. I can raise her right, but where are we supposed to find a husband for her?

No disagreement here about men. Thanks again for being a good sport with my hard line. You don’t know me, but this judgmental boundary-setting is strictly to set out guidelines to protect women from hurting themselves and to help women to know how to value the strong protectors and providers they really need. In private, one on one, I am all love and compassion and support – as long as the woman is repentant. I have one friend who totally blames herself and totally wants to change her life around. You would not believe how this arouses 100% protective instincts in the right kind of man. It actually makes them commit because they have to support women who want to do the right thing after all their unhappy suffering. There’s nothing better than a woman who refuses to be a victim and takes full responsibility.

Its obvious that God has more faith in humans than does man. Thank you Jesus for risking everything for us so that we can learn what it really means to love our brothers and to have mercy on the lost.

Although I think I understand your perspective, I believe that God is greater than sin and even our own hearts. Will you believe and be released to walk freely as a believer or will you choose to be whitewashed as was the pharisees. its easy to be religious. It can happen to anyone, even myself.