The world has changed dramatically in the last 20 years because of electronics, and the spy game has to keep up. I would be surprised if everyone wasn't doing it. The solution is not public rhetoric, but to get the smart folks together and let them brainstorm ways to intercept and prevent attacks. Pay them well and let them wear jeans and tee shirts to work and you might achieve something.

You know, occasionally I get a little flareup of patriotism and I want to respond to someone by saying "Hey, say what you want about the US, but at least AMERICA doesn't just "disappear" people, kill without trial, or have a Constitution that is largely ignored by the agencies who should be protecting it!"

It really, really pisses me off that I can't get all high and mighty about my country anymore.

dahmers love zombie:You know, occasionally I get a little flareup of patriotism and I want to respond to someone by saying "Hey, say what you want about the US, but at least AMERICA doesn't just "disappear" people, kill without trial, or have a Constitution that is largely ignored by the agencies who should be protecting it!"

It really, really pisses me off that I can't get all high and mighty about my country anymore.

If that's the case, you haven't been paying attention to the last century's worth of US history.

I recommend Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. Read it and you'll see there hasn't been reason to feel high and mighty about this country, ever.

I'm going to come back to the US and open a Chinese Anchor Baby hotel. Get 10-20 grand per Commie Mommy. Because you know what?

The Chinese government may be jerks, but you pro-America farkers are straight up douche bags. It doesn't matter the political stripe, you forgive and forget anything your "team" has ever done, yet forgive nothing your "opponents" ever have.

YOU are jerks. You jerks. And I'm tired of you.

I'll be pro-China just to annoy you as much as you annoy me.

/and the American government are also jerks//I'll call the hotel "The Anchorage."

I for one am stunned that countries that consider each other economic and military adversaries would conduct cyber attacks against each other. Now a proxy war involving vassal states, that's the good stuff.

Mrtraveler01:The comical thing out of all of this is China is pretending it has the moral high ground in this story.

It's all part of some weird kabuki theater that has been Chinese foreign policy for hundreds of years.

It's a little like something my white trash neighbors do: catch them doing something illegal and call them on it, and they make as much noise as they can, so direct attention away from themselves and towards their accuser.

Dwight_Yeast:dahmers love zombie: You know, occasionally I get a little flareup of patriotism and I want to respond to someone by saying "Hey, say what you want about the US, but at least AMERICA doesn't just "disappear" people, kill without trial, or have a Constitution that is largely ignored by the agencies who should be protecting it!"

It really, really pisses me off that I can't get all high and mighty about my country anymore.

If that's the case, you haven't been paying attention to the last century's worth of US history.

I recommend Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. Read it and you'll see there hasn't been reason to feel high and mighty about this country, ever.

Howard Zinn is so full of shiat, it isn't even funny. People seriously consider that dreck noteworthy?

"Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the Hong Kong Government requested additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government's request met relevant legal conditions."

-Hong Kong about the U.S. request of a provisional warrant for Snowden

A+ trollling HK

And then:

"At the same time, it has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. It will follow up on the matter, to protect the legal rights of people of Hong Kong. "

I'm going to come back to the US and open a Chinese Anchor Baby hotel. Get 10-20 grand per Commie Mommy. Because you know what?

The Chinese government may be jerks, but you pro-America farkers are straight up douche bags. It doesn't matter the political stripe, you forgive and forget anything your "team" has ever done, yet forgive nothing your "opponents" ever have.

YOU are jerks. You jerks. And I'm tired of you.

I'll be pro-China just to annoy you as much as you annoy me.

/and the American government are also jerks//I'll call the hotel "The Anchorage."

Haven't got been the pro-china back before? Or are you saying this is a new thing?

SomebodyElsesShoes:"Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the Hong Kong Government requested additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government's request met relevant legal conditions."

-Hong Kong about the U.S. request of a provisional warrant for Snowden

A+ trollling HK

And then:

"At the same time, it has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. It will follow up on the matter, to protect the legal rights of people of Hong Kong. "

Dwight_Yeast:dahmers love zombie: You know, occasionally I get a little flareup of patriotism and I want to respond to someone by saying "Hey, say what you want about the US, but at least AMERICA doesn't just "disappear" people, kill without trial, or have a Constitution that is largely ignored by the agencies who should be protecting it!"

It really, really pisses me off that I can't get all high and mighty about my country anymore.

If that's the case, you haven't been paying attention to the last century's worth of US history.

I recommend Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. Read it and you'll see there hasn't been reason to feel high and mighty about this country, ever.

sadly true. we have such Promise, but Capital always exerts its power and influence. maybe some day we'll get the balance right.

sendtodave:SomebodyElsesShoes: "Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the Hong Kong Government requested additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government's request met relevant legal conditions."

-Hong Kong about the U.S. request of a provisional warrant for Snowden

A+ trollling HK

And then:

"At the same time, it has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. It will follow up on the matter, to protect the legal rights of people of Hong Kong. "

SomebodyElsesShoes:sendtodave: SomebodyElsesShoes: "Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the Hong Kong Government requested additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government's request met relevant legal conditions."

-Hong Kong about the U.S. request of a provisional warrant for Snowden

A+ trollling HK

And then:

"At the same time, it has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. It will follow up on the matter, to protect the legal rights of people of Hong Kong. "

If I didn't know any better I would guess that some clever Chinese cop got Snowden to agree to a deal whereby Snowden agreed to tell the cop everything he knew about the NSA's activities in China in exchange for a safe-conduct out of Hong Kong.

Of course, if the alternative would have been getting shoved by a bunch of Chinese cops onto a plane bound for Honolulu, I can see why Snowden would have been eager to cooperate. Even to the extent of spilling information that he made up then and there.

SomebodyElsesShoes:sendtodave: SomebodyElsesShoes: "Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the Hong Kong Government requested additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government's request met relevant legal conditions."

-Hong Kong about the U.S. request of a provisional warrant for Snowden

A+ trollling HK

And then:

"At the same time, it has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. It will follow up on the matter, to protect the legal rights of people of Hong Kong. "

Great stuff.

Well, Hong Kong values and prides itself on their rule of law.

Law comes before politics.

What a nice idea.

You are an idiot.

In case you thought I was just making this up, HK really does pride itself on it's rule of law, and it's autonomy.

Hong Kong has risked the threat of US reprisals in allowing Edward Snowden to leave. But its government insists that the rule of law took primacy for a territory that jealously guards its separateness from mainland China. It's kinda their thing.

The integrity of our legal system is among the reasons Snowden decided to seek refuge in our city. As he told the South China Morning Post on Wednesday, he wanted Hong Kong's courts and its people to decide his fate.

At the heart of Hong Kong's system of government lies the principle that no one, including the Chief Executive, can do an act which would otherwise constitute a legal wrong or affect a person's liberty unless he can point to a legal justification for that action.

...

It's kinda a big deal there.

Now, if you want, I can get on a ferry tomorrow and get anecdotal man on the street evidence to show you that HKers value their rule of law even more than their elected officials, and certainly more than anyone from Beijing (seen more or less as an imperial governance).

But I really hope that won't be necessary. Barbecue I'll be hungover and full of hate.