I have perhaps a silly question, but it's been bugging me for a while now. The thread is rather recent, so I don't think it's patch problem either.
The OP suggest to save 1-charge workers for Feudalism, but I never seem to get an additional charge on them once I tech it and/or adopt Serfdom. What am I missing?

Beyond that, looks like I still don't push science fast enough. I opened @civtrader6 's 6otM28 save (t120) where he was generating ~1.7K bpt. I've never managed to reach such numbers peaking at a little under 1k with 30+ cities. Are there any particular perks that boost science (campuses specifically)? My campuses' output is on average ~5bpt lower than his.
Again, TIA. This thread is great. Very helpful for those of us who can't clock too many hours yet want to get decent.

P.S. Looking forward to that recording.

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Hi @The Pilgrim, don't be worried about the ~1.7k science per turn - as that number may be a show off (e.g. perhaps relying on reaching globalisation, and getting +10% science per city state) - so these outputs are only valid for the last few turns. Its also Aztech on a very favourable map - so not really representative of other T140 victories.

So, being around the 1k mark is good for end game for a T140 victory - although - its also important to start generating large amounts of science as quickly as possible.
The obvious key thing is - getting all campuses out as soon as possible. Then getting libs/unis - Now the more you have - the more GPP you get. This will allow you to hit one or two GS that give increased yields to campus district buildings (eg +4 science per university - which doubles to +8). If lucky you can get two. Another thing I do is - once city is considered 'built up' (e.g. has a uni/lib/cd or whatever i was planning to get there) - i assign the citizens to work as specialist (adding +2 or +4 science) per city. Hope this helps.

Y'all keep talking about getting a large amount of culture early and upping it every chance you get. How do you avoid a culture win before you can get to the spaceport? I have to watch my culture, not get it too high, not build any theatre squares, etc, or I'll win by culture by accident. (I play mid-level difficultly, peaceful games)

Hi @The Pilgrim, don't be worried about the ~1.7k science per turn - as that number may be a show off (e.g. perhaps relying on reaching globalisation, and getting +10% science per city state) - so these outputs are only valid for the last few turns. Its also Aztech on a very favourable map - so not really representative of other T140 victories.

So, being around the 1k mark is good for end game for a T140 victory - although - its also important to start generating large amounts of science as quickly as possible.
The obvious key thing is - getting all campuses out as soon as possible. Then getting libs/unis - Now the more you have - the more GPP you get. This will allow you to hit one or two GS that give increased yields to campus district buildings (eg +4 science per university - which doubles to +8). If lucky you can get two. Another thing I do is - once city is considered 'built up' (e.g. has a uni/lib/cd or whatever i was planning to get there) - i assign the citizens to work as specialist (adding +2 or +4 science) per city. Hope this helps.

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Specialists? I've never seen this in '6. I will have to reload a game save and see if I can find it. I assume you have a citizen work the campus tile?
I finished my Gilgamesh science game this morning. Just over 300 turns It was at King-level, and I think it would have been a lot faster at Emperor because I would have some competition. I was 30+ techs ahead of everybody and had to buy a lot of useless Atomic-era scientists. It took forever to build the space ports (one in a high-production city, and a backup in a medium-production city with lots of old growth forest lumbermills) And I did both of the lunar projects and half of the first Mars project the hard way before I finally got Stephanie K. and Carl Sagan and finished everything in 1 turn (with production leftover to do the Manhattan Project and Operation Ivy and build a couple of nukes)

I like the prioritizing commercial districts or harbors over campuses in most cities and building the campus second, and sending 6 envoys to every science CS instead of chasing Suzerain status on a few popular ones. OTOH, on some of my higher-level games the AI's kill all the CS's so I might have to liberate a few.

I think I'll "just one more turn" to look for those specialists, and then start a world war. Peter is annoying me; mocking me because my military is weak. I have no idea how his military strength numbers are slightly higher than mine because I have missile cruiser armadas, nuclear sub fleets, modern armor armies, and stealth bombers out the wazoo -- and the previously mentioned nukes. (had nothing better to do than build units while waiting for the space ports and lunar projects to finish)

I like the prioritizing commercial districts or harbors over campuses in most cities and building the campus second, and sending 6 envoys to every science CS instead of chasing Suzerain status on a few popular ones.

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Yup, it still works. But as you said re CH you are prioritising them. If you have 9 Envoys at science CS then that’s +6 in every campus you have. You need to have at least 15 campus by T100-110. Suzerainty is not important.

If Stockholm is on the map do you think they are worth going after once you've got 6 envoys in all the available science city states?

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Not really, I mean it’s better than nothing but not as Stong as Kumasi or valetta. Often it’s quite easy to get suze of Valetta, much handier than Stockholm.
The question is @stinkubus , just how many more scientists does it give and what real value are they. If there is no better option around and no gold CS to invest in then sure.

How much of the low number of turns is dependent on playing a large map? On a standard map I dunno how you'd ever get 20 cities that fast even if you conquer half of them.

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In gotm28 you can get more than 30 by turn 100 as the Aztecs.
A lot more depends on Pangea or a shallow sea although it’s certainly not a show stopper, quantity of cities within reach early is important.
Apparently there will be more distance between civs which may help.

It can be done. I've gotten to 20 as early as T80 or so, and I'm terrible at this game compared to the main contributors in this thread. I also typically play on small maps to keep game performance higher on the later turns. I usually open builder/settler and then go into producing an army out of two cities.

Once I finish Early Empire I'll run both Agoge and Colonization so my cap can then start on settlers while the second city keeps spitting out units. Once the third city is planted it will make units and I can then switch to settlers in my second city. From there I just keep building settlers in any city than can get them done prior to me needing to switch to Ilikum for a wave of builders. I typically switch when starting either Defensive Tactics or Feudalism, depending on how the game breaks.

So what do you do if there are no scientific city-states? I just finished a game; lost to Kongo (science) on turn 200-something at quick speed. on a standard sized map. There was only one scientific CS in the whole game, buried deep in the heart of another continent. I finally found it with a Terracotta Army archaeologist that I used as an explorer and sent 6 envoys. Kongo and Arabia each had continents to themselves on which to flourish, and the other 5 of us were fighting it out on the other slightly larger continent. I had already taken all the capitals and other good cities on my continent (I left a few for trade routes) liberated all the CS's (religious ones), and was built space ports in my two highest-production cities. I had just finally finished the first spaceport and started the earth satellite project, with Carl Sagan standing by. All the necessary techs were finished so I was working on Stealth. Still lost.

At least I'm getting better at using spies. Send them on easy missions (siphon gold from a tiny city unlikely to have a counterspy) just to level-up, then use experienced spies to destroy industrial zones and spaceports and recruit rebels. Have a quartermaster spy back home doing counterintelligence. All of my sabotage missions were successful, but Kongo and Arabia had so many spaceports I couldn't destroy them fast enough.

I wonder if I need to bee-line Rocketry early-on, in anticipation of the spaceport taking 50 turns to complete? (unless I'm playing as Aztecs, of course. Monty can use builders to erect a spaceport in 2 or 3 turns. One turn with a little planning.)
It was a fun game even tho' I lost.

Six envoys to that one CS was a big part of my catching-up in science. I was surprised how much it helped. I just didn't catch up fast enough, and I finished the tech tree in the wrong order -- should have started building the spaceports 20 turns earlier. I researched Combustion pretty early to upgrade my knights to tanks, but there was no oil available and no Rockefeller GM (so I eventually upgraded them to modern armor cuz I had lots of uranium, but it still threw me off)

I wonder if I should have nuked both Arabia and Kongo just to distract them? Too bad there's no mechanism to bribe one AI to declare war on another like in Civ 5.

Hi all,
with a little bit of practice and lots of forward planning, getting a science victory in 150-160 turns is easily doable, even with weaker civs across all difficulties (including France and Harald, on deity difficulty).

However, at least for me, pushing the victory to 140 turns or below seems to be daunting and situational. So far, I've developed one strategy with Gilgamesh that works on lower difficulties (Prince Turn 138 and Emperor Turn 140). Sadly, this one is not likely to work on higher difficulties.

So my question would be - is there any other civ that can pull a science victory in 140 turns or less? What would be a good strategy? Any ideas?

What sets Gilgamesh apart from other civ's is the unique ability to get inspirations/eureka's from barb camps. On a large map, this easily translates into a number of inspirations that would otherwise not be possible (e.g. in my last game, urbanization and humanism and countless others) when going for a quick SV. This saves a number of turns.
Also, other civ's require you to build 2 armies, while Sumeria allows you to upgrade warcarts into knights (I always purchase a battering ram too).

Even then, it's not enough. To shave these 10-15 turns and get your victory to T140 and under you also need:
* 2-3 scientific city states (2 is enough with religion).
* mid-early religion (see below) (also, this is why this strategy is not suitable for deity).
* neighbour with strong culture (e.g. gorgo or hojo - to capture theater squares and great works of writing) or Kumasi (to reach Suffrage/Democracy before turn 140).
Without the above, or with any other civ, a slightly adapted version of the strategy below regulary nets T150-T160 science victory on all difficulties.

Gilgamesh Fast Science Victory - General Strategy

Early Civics strategy and build order:
All early civics need to be boosted for quick Classical Republic (less than 50 turns).
Start with a builder/scout or scout/builder (depending on available tiles and how many techs are needed), get inspiration for Craftmanship.
Next make a settler. Finish researching Craftsmanship exactly on the turn the settler is done. Insert Agoge (for 50% military units). Build 3x slingers and 1 or 2 warriors.
Next start researching Military Tradition. At this point you are likely to get a boost. Leave it at one turn before completion and finish only when you are done making slingers/warriors.
Then immediately switch to Maneuver (50% cavalry) and start producing warcarts. (I do it exclusively in the capital, 6-8 max).
Find a target neighbour civ or city state. At turn 30+ they should have a holy site finished. Conquer, get a boost for State workforce.

As soon as possible, boost and research Early Empire for Colonisation (50% settlers). Ideally, your second and third/fourth city (the one's you conquered) should now start making settlers. The capital will join as soon as the military is done.

If possible settle the (first or) second city on a luxury and improve at least one luxury. Sell luxuries for lump gold. Use money to buy one or two builders. Chop to speed up settlers. Make at least 8 settlers.

Once Political Philosophy is done, with Gilgamesh you can go for Classical Republic (at this point you do not need the military slot - warcarts do not have upkeep, by now you should have already built all the military you will need for the rest of the game, so even if you've upgraded the slingers to archers -3 gold is ok) (note however, the maybe you want to get Oligarchy for a few turns if you haven't finished the military or you face a tough war).
Preferred policies will be Urban Planning (+1 production), 30% for builders and 50% for settlers (for some time).

Early Mid-Game Civics Strategy
You need to reach Merchant republic as fast as possible. Normally that means, hard-researching Games and Recreations. Make sure to boost Medival Fairies (4 trade routes - see note on districts), Recorded History (2 campus districts), Feudalism (I do this exclusively through capturing cities with farms, and maybe one of my own in capital).
If you're lucky you will boost either the Military Tactics (by capturing an Encampment or through barb camps - building an encampment is a no-go for T140, but great for regular T150-160 victories) and Defensive Tactics (barb camp or city state declaring or you, or perhaps even an enemy civ).

Unless lucky with goody huts, be ready to hard-research Civil Service and Exploration.

Mid-Late Game Civics Strategy:
Again, unless lucky with goody huts, normally I do not boost Humanism, Diplomatic Service, Urbanization and Suffrage. All others will get a boost.
(Make sure to build 2 markets for Guilds, you will definitely get a Great Merchant for Mercantilism, and 3 Great People in time for Enlightenment. Civil Engineering is likely to be boosted through capture (you could build a harbour, capture a theater square etc). On lower difficulties boost for Nationalism through declaring a war with casus-belli should be possible etc.
Before going for suffrage, i also get Collonialism for envoys.

DISTRICTS:
Except for the first (or first two) all other cities should start by making a monument.
Pre-place (but do not build districts). Normally, first 2 cities can pre-place a campus (and later commercial hubs). The next 2 commercial hubs.
Place the districts as soon as possible. Took me a long long time to realise that saving production (through lower district costs is much much better than chasing (very often super weak (like +1 or +2) adjacency.

WONDERS
One central city should start with a Entertainment district for Colosseum. Note that this city does not even have to have fresh water, just needs a few good tiles to chop, so that you can put the Colosseum up as soon as you get Feudalism.
If possible and still available, one city should be able to chop Pyramids (can be done with 2-3 chops, once you get feudalism). Needless to say, save all one charge workers.
For late game you will also need Big Ben. You need a dedicated city that will get a bank and start building Big Ben around Turn 100+ or so.
(Note: normally for T150-160 SV, going for great zimbabve is a good option, however, I haven't tried it with Gilgamesh so as not to delay the spaceport).

General TECH Strategy:
Should be straightforward and consistent with all other advice around. Most, but not all early techs will get a boost (don't build that aquaduct). I personally never build walls either. Make sure to time Stirups with Feudalism.
After that move to the top of the tree. Essentially you need to balance researching toward Space Port tech and Big Ben. Ideally, you should hit Big Ben (Economics) at around T100 and Space Port at T100 at the latest.
To do this, you must rely on Great Scientists (which will boost pretty much all tech in the medieval and renesaince era's). Do not spend a great scientist until you boost what you can (e.g. build a niter mine for rifling first) etc.
Normally, once I get back to researching castles etc it only takes 1 turn per boosted tech.
After you hit the spaceport tech, try saving some industrial/modern era techs for boosts, as at this point the great scientists start coming too late.

Builders/Districts Strategy
Make sure to have a huge wave of builders for feudalism. New cities should start making a monument, but if necessary stop making the monuments and switch to builders. Districts should wait until feudalism. Once you've got feudalism start chopping districts. In each city, if its not already finished, chop the monument first. Then chop 3 CD and only then chop campuses.
Most cities do not need to grow past 4 pop. Granary only in capital and eventually the Big Ben City.
Industrial zone in capital (maybe, but not necessarily, also big ben city).
You will have the time to finish a workshop and a factory in the capital just before you start with Space Port.
Plan to also chop (or partly use overflow for 3 extra traders). Build 2 markets (one in Big Ben city).
In general, except for a few select cities, I rarely improve tiles. In some cities, I may build a mine or two
Farms? Never. Well, actually, there may be a farm in the capital for Craftsmanship and maybe later (T100+) build 2-4 farms in the capital for extra housing. Otherwise, never.
Keep chopping traders (e.g. ideally in cities that already have 2 districts and and forest/stone/deer)

At around civil engineering you should have a second wave of builders (on some maps, I've settled a late city in the middle of the woods - just for the purpose of chopping 6+ builders and nothing else).

WAR
After starting war at around T30, I keep warring up until T100 or so. Later, only if I want to stop an annoying religion or hit a boost.
Mercenaries straight after feudalism (maybe squeeze recorded history first). With the above focus on CD, your treasury will fill up suddenly (in 5-10 turns) to upgrade warcarts into knights.

RELIGION/PANTHEON
Most of the advice above (but not all) applies to regular T150-160 SV strategy. But so far, the only way I have found to pull the victory to T140 and below is rather religion.
Use captured holy sites to get a religion (2nd or 3rd). Go for Papal Primacy (50% from city states) and Jesuit Education (Purchase theater square buildings with faith). You may need to chop a holy site project or faith/gold purchase a prophet. Be careful. Convert your cities while small. Start converting city states first. Be ready to declare war to crush enemy missionaries.
(In one game I was able to snatch papal primacy (and convert city states) but China took Jesuit Education - so I had to spread their religion through my cities for JE, thats ok too, but that was T143 victory).

Pantheon: with Gilgamesh you are likely to be able to hit Goddess of the Harvest. All the chopping will allow you to (through time) purchase a library and university in every city.

SPACE
The usual. Capital must have at least 4 tiles to chop for all space-projects in one turn. Ideally, there should be at least 2 more to speed up the space-port. Same with big-ben city. Only these two cities get internal trade routes (1 to 3). All other trade routes go to merchant city states.
You will need at least 20+k saved before T140, cause you will have to buy at least 6-8 great scientists in 1-2 turns on lower difficulties.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I've forgot something. And, let me know if you have any suggestions as to how to do this with another civ.

Save:
I'm attaching a fun save on emperor difficulty (T140 SV) if you want to study/try for yourself.
(Note: I've the last civ captured was done for the purpose of boosting civil engineering and getting 2 city-state quests, didn't really need it otherwise).
You may also want to check-out GoTM10 (T138 SV on Prince).

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Did you say that you finish the game in 160 turns, peacefull, on normal map with other 7 civilities? or what?

I've just finished another game where there were no scientific CS's at all. (they were not conquered, there just weren't any) This was on a small map. I did manage to get a tech lead by building more campuses and commercial districts, and running internal trade routes while working specialist slots. I clobbered all my neighbors, then wiped out the only other civ with any culture for a culture victory while I was researching the last of the Mars project techs. I built my spaceport a lot earlier this time.

I should try that Aztecs GOTM. Is the non-DLC version okay?

If you build a district on a good tile, like 2 hammers and a food or 2 food and a hammer, do your specialists give the base tile yield? I tend to build districts on my worst tiles (desert, snow, tundra, etc) that aren't good for anything else except eventually neighborhoods.

That's a problem I've also noticed since I too play small maps. Adding an extra city state or two should help, and also give you another neighbor to conquer if you end up getting bogus city states in your starting area!