My daughter asked me awhile back how much money Bill and I had in our retirement account.Â I got my back up, just like a little old lady who’d been asked if she masturbated and said, “I don’t discuss my finances.”

And I don’t.Â I, who am so open about many other things in my life, find the very word “money” embarrassing.Â Â Â It could stem from being so poor as a child.Â Poverty is shameful.Â My mother used to borrow from people and never pay them back.Â I recall very clearly as a little girl, seven or eight, cringing in embarrassment, but hoping they’d lend her the money to buy bread because we were hungry.Â Of course she never repaid her debts.

I’m embarrassed today to say “I can’t afford that.”Â Â I’ve started to say “because I don’t have any money” just flat out.Â It somehow has a humorous tone to it and so far, nobody’s been mean to me about it.Â

So when I heard about this book, I was intrigued and couldn’t wait to read it.Â What a book!Â This woman has done the research and opened her own soul to criticism as she shares how she screwed up—-and succeeded—in handling money and the emotions attached.

Â That’s the crux of this book, the emotional roller coaster that our attitudes toward finances present in our lives.

She describes many cases of marriages that are mismatched in attitude.Â A cheapskate will marry a spendthrift.Â Their attitudes often stem, as mine do, from childhood.Â Fear is a huge emotion attached to money for some.Â They fear going broke so much they will hang on to every penny as if it represents their last sandwich.Â Others, fearing, oh, say, public opinion, will spend their last penny on good shoes rather than food.

Marriages are lost over money issues.Â Families are torn apart over inheritances.Â This is not only the very rich, either, parents who leave behind a modest nest egg probably watch aghast from the spirit world as their children fight over that $5000.

Many of us try to buy affection with money.Â I know I do that.Â It’s not only an attempt at emotional blackmail when I buy my children nice things, I do want them to have everything, but in part, I’m trying to make up for my flaws as a parent.Â I’m hoping that cute blouse will make up for snapping at Sarah; or the video games will compensate for the time I’m not able to spend with my grandsons who live farther away than the other grandchildren.

We feel inferior to others who have more money and better possessions than we do.Â Â Depending on the society, money often determines social status.Â Â

As Liz Perle rightly points out, money is at the heart of most of our interactions with others.Â Â Â And while I know intellectually that money can’t buy happiness (watching my best friends’ families fight over their parents millions has taught me that), it seems that if I had a lot of money, my life would indeed be easier and happier.

When I was a senior in high school, I lived in a small house with other women, worked half the day, went to school the other half, and paid all my own bills. Money wasn’t a huge issue in my first marriage, if he wanted something and we had the money, he got it, same with me. Neither of us was a big spender, but we never fought about money. We fought about other things, just not that.

My second husband was a lazy man and wrote checks that he couldn’t support. I was a nervous wreck all the time over money. Our marriage only lasted ten months and I divorced him with him owing me money, but I thought it was worth the price.

Money has been a huge issue for all the 26 years Bill and I have been married. I’m a spender, he’s a saver. A hoarder, more like. He’s fairly generous with himself, he likes good clothes and his toys are top notch, while I tend to DI and yard sales (he would say “junk”), but I appreciate that he understands the value of a dollar. Because he’s a car salesman, he understands interest much better than I and he usually can negotiate a good deal when we purchase appliances, etc.

His income is based on commission and that can get hairy. I’ve gotten quite good at making sure the bills are paid (we have excellent credit) and all our needs are taken care of despite the ups and downs. Our children always had everything they needed. (Jessie still mourns that Barbie jeep I refused her and Sarah is SO going to buy her daughter an Easy Bake Oven, but still :)).

Money burns a hole in my pocket and because I’m the one who buys the birthday and Christmas presents, who tends to the wedding invites and all the social obligations, I spend more money. I’m awful in the grocery store and don’t get me started in Wal-Mart! These things have led to a great deal of contention in our marriage.

My attitude has always been one of faith. We have always paid our tithing and other donations and donate as much as we can to charity. Somehow it’s always worked out. Bill has about put himself in the hospital with anxiety, however, through it all.

You would think, since his parents always provided well for him, he’d worry less and that I, who had nothing as a child, would worry more.
I’m never dishonest with money, but my philosophy of “enjoy now, save later” directly conflicts with Bill’s “save it all for a rainy day” thought processes.

Because I suspect we are the norm rather than the departure, I recommend this book, “Money: A Memoir” by Liz Perle to all.

And I have some questions, because I really really need to know if I’m normal (Bookslinger, I already know what you think…..):

1.Â Do you discuss money, how much you make or spend openly or are you, like me, more reserved?

2.Â For women, have you ever spent money and hidden it from your husband?

3.Â For guys, have you ever hidden money from your wife?

4.Â Â How has money impacted your marriage?Â Are you a spender or a saver?

5.Â Â Are you worried about the economy and concerned that you’ll end up on the street?

6.Â For guys who are the sole breadwinner, do you feel it’s your money or our money?

[…] anika wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptMy daughter asked me awhile back how much money Bill and I had in our retirement account. I got my back up, just like a little old lady whoâ€™d been asked if she masturbated and said, â€œI donâ€™t discuss my finances.â€ And I donâ€™t. … […]

This sounds like a great book! I constantly say I don’t have any money as well. Mostly because I’m a bit of a hoarder because I hate to spend money if I don’t have to. I would be happy to see my bank account show more then spend anything.
I don’t really know where that comes from but that’s me.

I’ve recently read a book called A Place to Belong, which is also a Memoir that I can relate to. It’s about this man who’s father is so mean to him and his mother just agrees with the father. I think there can be many messages within this book, obviously up to you whichever suits the message you learn.
I’ve learned to forgive. My father has never been a true father to me and haven’t talked to him in years. He has started to try and reach out and i’ve learned to forgive. I can turn the other cheek where as before I don’t think I ever could.

1. I have no problem discussing money.
2. There have been a very few times that I’ve hidden spent money from my husband, but mostly I feel the need to account for my spending, b/c that’s what my mother did. My husband could usually care less (in a good way) what I buy, but I find that when I buy something not entirely necessary or I spent more than usual (most of the time b/c I’m taking advantage of a good deal) I end up explaining every detail to my husband. It’s hard to shake being raised in a family where verbally the money was “ours”, but reality it was my dad’s.
3. I’m probably more a spender than a saver, although I’m generally more cautious than my husband. Money hasn’t been a huge issue other than the fact that my husband’s “toys” cost multiple hundreds of dollars, but I can usually slip in fun things for me at $20/shot so it’s easier to see his unnecessary spending than mine.
4. We’re worried about the economy, but I don’t think we’ll end up on the street. For us, it’s the sense of frustration that no matter how careful and frugal we are with the day to day expenses we’ll never be able to buy the “extras” that we want. As food gets more expensive, our kids are eating us out of house and home!

Background: We cannot survive on my husband’s income alone. I have been in a career since finishing grad school.

1. We discuss money all the time.
2. I don’t spend money and hide it from my husband (I do hide my daily candy purchases from him, though.)
4. Money hasn’t really impacted us; it was difficult a couple of times when my husband’s work situation deteriorated and we had to live solely on my income for a while. I am a saver (not a miser, though). My husband is more a spender when his work is producing more money–but his extra expenditures are usually for books on Amazon and at Half Price Books.
5. We are both worried about the economy. We’ll probably take Jeff Lindsay’s (Mormanity)advice and buy more rice tomorrow for our food storage. We don’t worry about ending up on the street; it’s more about worrying how much we can contribute to our kids’ college funds and whether they’ll be able to find a good job and own a house when they get older.

—

Anne, I think we are all just born as savers or spenders.

I will have to read that memoir you mentioned (I only read books that I can borrow at my library!). One book I recommend is Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez. His message is brilliant and inspirational. Here’s a link:

Chrissy, you just never know with life. The most amazing miracles can happen. People do change, no matter what you hear.

Jes, you sound a lot like me. I think if I worked (and I just got a job, guys!)I would feel less inclined to explain my spending. Bill does have lots more expensive toys than I—and clothes! I spend a veritable fortune on my hair, though. I’m entirely gray and it’s expensive keeping it looking brown and natural :)

Macy, I’m more like your husband, I go right over to Amazon when I have extra. I can’t walk out of a bookstore without a book.

Bill and I discuss money with each other, but I don’t discuss our finances with my friends or family. I don’t know why I’m so shy about that, but I don’t talk about it much at all.

I probably hide what I spend at Wal-Mart more than any other place.

Last year he decided he should pay the bills and it was from hell every two weeks. He had to have me right there to explain every step to him and to explain every amount on every bill and he’d get irritable and onery. He never got any better at reading the bills.

When I do the bills, I take over the living room, put on a movie and make a big mess until I’m done. I never ask him about anything, unless he’s written a check that didn’t go in and I don’t get irritable at all. You’d never believe anything organized could come out of papers all over the living room while I’m watching “About a Boy” but it works for me. We get along better. We only fight every six months or so when he decides he’d better check on me and I have to explain everything.

I think handling finances is learned behavior or the result of environment. I’ve read that children who grow up in abusive homes, as I did, have a problem with delayed gratification, which is true of me. I didn’t inherit my parents dishonesty or lazy welfare mentality, but I don’t save very well, either.

I’m a total believer in tithing, Bill was less so, but now he knows that I won’t quibble on that issue, so he’s become religious about it, as well. I also believe in giving to others as much as possible. It’s bread upon the waters. I’m more able to live in the moment than he, but his parents were very thrifty and frugal and saved their money, so I guess he’s inherited that. His mother would never give money away, though, so that’s been a bone of contention with us.

She did this really cool thing, though. She left $1000 to each of her grandchildren in her will. This is where the emotion comes in—my kids really took it as a sign that their grandmother loved them. She left this sweet note telling them so. I’ve decided to do the same for my grandchildren.

Money is quite an emotional issue, as Liz Perle points out. It was actually easier to deal with the emotions of money when we were young and raising our kids and so poor. There was no question where the money would go.

Oh, and teenagers need more food! I remember my kids being hungry all the time. One thing I did was bake whole wheat bread a couple of times a week. They always had bread and jam which was good for them and filling.

Lack of money can bring shame, lots of it can bring false pride. I suppose that adage (scripture, sorry) LOVE of money is the root of all evil. I don’t agree with that, but I guess it’s up there on the evil scale.

FOr me, money is security. Having savings means I can do what I want. I grew up in a family with a middle-class, upper middle class income, and I am terrified of not having any money. I majored in something that I knew I could get a job with, and I save about 15% of income for retirement.

Having savings and security means I don’t have to work at a job I hate. I’ve had crappy jobs, and I’d rather be careful – that’s no way to live. Having savings means I can date and love who ever I want – I don’t have to take into account whether or not they have enough money to support me and any subsequent kids. I would certainly like to stay home with my kids and not worry about money, but I don’t want that enough to swallow hard and marry someone I wouldn’t look at again if they weren’t financially stable. I’ve had friends do that, and I don’t think it’s worth it.

TO me, savings and being careful about money means security and freedom. I can date who I want, spend time with who I want, visit where I want. If I can’t stand my family, I can get a hotel. If I can’t stand my roommates, I can move. I can work in a job that pays slightly less because I enjoy the atmosphere more. There are so many real things in the world to worry about that I can’t control, but I can control how much I save.

[b]1. Do you discuss money, how much you make or spend openly or are you, like me, more reserved?[/b]
With those in a similar position in life (single, professional), I’ll talk about it generally, but not give actual numbers. With family and close friends, I’ll discuss philosophy of money management but few concrete terms. I won’t even tell my dad an actual number of how much I make or much I have in the bank.

[b]2. For women, have you ever spent money and hidden it from your husband? 3. For guys, have you ever hidden money from your wife? 4. How has money impacted your marriage? 6. For guys who are the sole breadwinner, do you feel itâ€™s your money or our money?[/b]N/A

[b]Are you a spender or a saver?[/b]
I save 15% off the top, figure how much I need for big purchases through the year and save in the beginning of the year for that, and then spend the rest down to the last dollar – usually on nice food, clothes, presents, and travel.

[b]5. Are you worried about the economy and concerned that youâ€™ll end up on the street?[/b]
Yes, there’s always a little bit of fear of this. Not enough to keep me awake at night, but enough to keep me checking the money pages and my account balances.

I am a spender. I didn’t grow up with much and it seemed as though my mom pinched every penny. You would think that they would be rich right about now, not so. They are still in the poor house. I heard Suze Orman say that money is a direct link to how we feel about ourselves. How we treat money is how we treat us and our relationships. My mom is very controlling, stubborn, and a bit selfish. She always complains about how the so-and-so’s are just showing off their money becuse they bought them a new car. She always has something to say when it concerns money. They are declaring bankruptcy this year. I am not near as poor as them. I decided long ago that I would rather have a new car and a payment then a beat up piece of crap that doesn’t have reverse, and you have to take it into the shop every week to get it fixed. It is worth it to me, not to my parents. So, they never have a good car, they never have money and they are always complaining about it. That is when I decided to have a moderation in all things. I spend and I save.

1. Yes I discuss how much I make when I feel it is it “okay” or safe to discuss it.
2. I would have to say, Yes. I have spent money on clothes (that is my big problem) and not told him about it, only to tell him a week or so later because I feel so stinking guilty for hiding something that I don’t think I should hide from him. I do the bills and there are sometimes I “check-up” on him. He never does that to me so I feel it my responsibility to tell him when I have made a large purchase.
4. Oh I just discovered the joy in saving. I am both. I love to spend, and I love to save. There is a good reason to do both. The more you spend the more you make room for abundance. The more you save…the more you have for rainy days, which in my husbands occupation is very, very, very important. Not to mention what the prophets have said about saving. So, I do both. I spend enough to feel like I am not suffocating, but I save too.
5. Yes. IT is a real possiblity in my husbands job, so that is the reason why I save. I don’t know a huge amount about the economy but I know the value of the dollar is going down. That can’t be good.

I have come to understand that money is important. You have to treat it with the respect it deserves, and in so doing, you respect yourself so much more. I feel alot better when I know that I have money in my savings account. I also know that I feel really good when I go to Maurices… :)

And Wal-Mart, of course. Although Bill can’t resist Costco. Which is why it’s fun to take him, because I can buy what I want and he never says a word.

I think you make an interesting point about your mother. Because there are poor people who live in fear and never go beyond that existence. I’ve said it before, poor people can be cheap and rich people can be incredibly generous. Fear is such a huge issue, I think.

My daughter, Jessie, for instance, qualifies to buy a house. Putting aside today’s market problems, she’s afraid to make such a big investment. Sometimes I think I don’t deserve big things, so I’m afraid to go for them.

Money, finances, truly are emotional at the core of them. If that makes any sense. Oh, well.

I see a common thread here in husbands having expensive toys! That has occassionally been a source of contentention in our house: I would discuss any major purchase with husband, but he has more than once come home with something large I would NEVER have OKed. I hope he has learned that lesson now!

I think the way people grow up has a major impact on their spending. I grew up upper-middles class and I admit that I occassionally have a hard time scaling back my expectations and tastes to my current income. My mom does too–she urges me to spend bigger on certain items, forgetting all the years she made do.

My husband grew up dirt poor (really–third world country) and money really burns a whole in his pocket unless he has a specific goal like sending a specific sum home or saving for a trip home. I cannot tell you how many pairs of shoes he has bought because they were a good deal. We have shoes coming out of our ears.

I am in a new relationship and talking about money is a big stumbling block.

I was married to a lazy man with big plans and no ambition, so we had a big old farmhouse and lots of promises of improvements he was going to make and lots more repair bills when he decided he was tired of working. Never mind the house, wife and three kids! The marriage ended and the bills went unpaid. Credit scores plummeted. There were days without heating oil, and times when i went without food so the kids could eat. There is a a lot of shame in my heart about that, so when the man I am in love with now started asking about my credit score and debts, I lost it big time. Tears, stomach ache, etc. I cannot erase those bad years, nor the fear a nearly empty fridge strikes in my heart — and I don’t want to talk about it, either. I work hard now, and have a very nice apartment, and a usually too full fridge!

BTW, I grew up well off, so I was unprepared for living in what I now must admit was poverty. Not an easy lesson to learn.

I grew up dirt poor – similar to you Anne and, my siblings and I are all terrified of being poor and so we are all savers (sometimes to the extreme). My wife (she grew up poor as well) and I have saved as much as we can so we can retire early (maybe we will be able to, maybe not). We usually shop at Wal-Mart, Costco and outlets for clothes. A big spend for us is getting an ice cream on a summer evening… I agree with all of the above that we are products of our backgrounds.

I hide money all the time. My mother-in-law was terrible with money. If she ever had a dollar, she spent five. Unfortunately, that is how my wife learned to manage money. If she goes online and sees there is money in one of our accounts, she spends it, and sometimes a little more. If I didn’t have a separate account she didn’t know about, we’d never make it with the bills.

1. Do you discuss money, how much you make or spend openly or are you, like me, more reserved?

Not usually. Not even with the kids. They probably think we’re poor. We aren’t. We just don’t buy expensive consumer electronics and we’ve kept up the habit we learned in grad school of finding clothes at thrift stores a lot of the time.

2. For women, have you ever spent money and hidden it from your husband?

No. It’s all in the checkbook (Quicken) for him to see. I do the bills and balance the checkbook each month and print off a two page review. One page is a report from Quicken that shows all the categories and compares spending to the budget. The other is a page I made up with checklists of all the bills and accounts to make sure everything is paid and reconciled. It also lists the totals for the past month (total inflows, total outflows, totals into savings and IRAs) and what is in each of our accounts. The reason why I do this is because I’m absentminded and I don’t want the stress of having to remember things.

I review the money with my husband at least quarterly. I don’t mention the small amounts (sometimes I’ll get $5 or $10 cash with the groceries and sometimes I’ll buy a candy bar or something).

When we were in grad school we agreed to not spend more than $35 without discussing it with each other. Money was very tight. I clearly remember the two times that he broke this rule. The first time was a necessity; the car battery went out. The second time he bought horribly expensive (and poor quality) tires at the recommendation of a Goodyear guy and I’m still a little ticked because we could have gone to Costco and bought better tires for much less money.

4. How has money impacted your marriage? Are you a spender or a saver?

I’m a saver. I grew up in a struggling household with a lot of siblings. My dad would buy big ticket items having to do with some random hobby, use them for a while, then they would gather dust. Good lesson in not buying “stuff.” My mother scrimped and saved. She made her own wheat bread and we grew up eating (almost daily) sandwiches made from dry dense wheat bread, bologna, ketchup, and miracle whip. Food is the one place I’m careful to spend enough on for good quality.

My husband is a big time saver. So much so that it irks me. I can count on one hand the number of times he’s bought me gifts worth more than $5. Most times he just ignores birthdays and Christmas. I spent many a birthday or Christmas night in the early years of our marriage in tears.

It’s taken me years to understand that he somehow feels that money in the bank is a sign of his affection. I understand that he feels this way but I still don’t “get it.” In recent years I’ve tried to press him on it so that our boys will learn how to treat women, but that also doesn’t mean anything to him. I should probably buy expensive gifts for myself and wrap them up from my husband so my kids don’t think it’s okay to be this way.

I totally blame my in-laws for his weird money ideas. I know that his brothers’ wives have had a hard time with it too. I think it was a bad way to raise their kids. But they’re otherwise respectable citizens with good jobs, so what can I say.

We have to get some work done on the house, and it’s been about three years now and it’s getting really old, but he is reluctant to spend the money.

Did I see the tight-fistedness coming before we were married? No. He gave me gifts of jewelry and flowers and most of the time we knew each other (over about five years) we weren’t courting, so gifts wouldn’t have been appropriate except in the final number of months when we were actually dating or engaged. Would it have been a deal breaker if I’d known how frugal he was? No. Most women would be tickled pink to have a husband who consistently brings home a paycheck as large as my husband does. He doesn’t cheat or beat on me or the kids. He’s active in the church. Etc. Money is a regular sticking point, but it’s not a deal breaker for me.

5. Are you worried about the economy and concerned that youâ€™ll end up on the street?

Not too much. We have our six months worth of reserves. My husband is very employable and could find a job within that time frame.

6. For guys who are the sole breadwinner, do you feel itâ€™s your money or our money?

I’ll have to answer for him. He says its “our” money. I’m sure he realizes that I would have a career and paycheck of my own if it wasn’t for staying home to take care of his kids.

Thanks for letting me post this obscenely long comment. It’s cheaper than therapy.

This hits a little too close to home for me. Having one parent who is a spender and another who is a saver can be very hard. I’m thankful for the saver as we would be out on the street were it not for that person. And the spender at one time worked very hard to support us all so I am thankful for their hard work. And we are okay at the moment. I have had more spending money than ever in the last few years so I am blessed. I could stand to save more, but when you have had to help with bills your adult life and never had much chance to spend other than on school tuition, you tend to want to enjoy the little money that you are allowed to spend these days. But I think I am more on the thrify side.

My husband and I have 3 credit cards which we use for everything, we rarely have cash on us and don’t have paper checks(though we can request a check be sent to someone through our banks website). Each one is for different things, one for groceries and bills (phone, cable etc.) one is for gas and other car related things and the third is for anything else. We pay each one off completely every month. We are both savers for the most part. Since we both can access our credit cards and bank accounts online it makes it hard to hide any purchases for each other. We do not spend over $50 without okaying it(something we read in a marriage book when we were engaged) Right now I am the sole breadwinner(my husband is in school still) so it is definitely “our money” because I want it to continue to be our money when he is the breadwinner and I am staying home with the kids.

But when we were raising the kids and always scrimping, they got in the habit of thinking we didn’t have any money and we’ve never corrected them.

Barb, one thing that’s occurred to me is we could die tomorrow, or lose our health entirely and not be able to enjoy anything. I think today’s the day to have fun. Bill thinks it’s in the far distant future.