I hate doing hard grunt work and labor out in the hot sun for several hours with no real break other than a couple water breaks, and wearing heavy work boots that are hot! And then smelling like BO that's been festering in the hot sun all day and mixing with dirt and dust and other crap.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

I hear you StormDragon. Just thank your lucky stars you are not in my shoes. I have to sit at a cubicle in an air conditioned office all day. Then they make me work for 7.5 hours a day, 5 days a week and only give me 2 each 15 minute breaks and 1 hour off for lunch. Who do they think they are ... what ... is this a sweat shop or something.

_________________________"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Very funny Dereck! Smartass Last summer I worked about 6.5-7.5 hours per day for about a week or two, digging ditches, shoveling river rock, moving stuff, weed wacking and various other jobs out in the hot sun (90-95 degree wheather) with 3 or 4 breaks (including about half an hour to 45 minutes for lunch) and i went pretty hard. I hate that kind of work but it's all I ever seem to do for some strange reason, and I guess I'm pretty good at it. It's something though.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Not to worry, many of us had to do similar things. During high school I worked at a gas station for 2 years before going into contruction ... who my boss's daughter became my girlfriend and then my wife (long story). Anyways I had to do a lot of stuff that was insane such as jack hammering, digging, sand/bead blasting, laying membrane, laying cement, etc. A lot of this was at odd times of the day and some days were 16 hours days. I never appreciated a shower or sleep until I did this. I hated my boss (father-in-law) and the foreman (brother-in-law) but now I'm a part of the family. However I could not work for them so went to work for my dad being a cabinet maker for years and ended up not being able to work for him either so where I work now is where I have been with March 1 being the start of my 19th year.

Many of us had to do grunt work for bottom dollar before and it is just a transition in our lives until we find something better. Those jobs helped to define who I was today and though I sit at a desk it does get hard, just mentally. Backstabbing, office politics ... you name it, I would sooner go back to manual labour. I started in our manufacturing facility and then was promoted to Shipper/Receiver and took on many responsibilities later on which included running the plant when the Plant Manager was on holidays. I've hired people and have the best track record at my work for hires. I was then promoted to the front office for Inside Sales and Marketing and I have done many other jobs besides this. I was sent to school for Marketing by my work plus countless of other courses. I am the 5th for senority in my company and am the only person to have walked in the shoes of almost every position including plant, shipping, plant managing, lab work, inside sales, marketing, customer service, outside sales, servicing, invoicing, account set ups, costing, etc. They have found me to be very valuable but I had to work my way up the ladder. Sometimes I consider coming into the office a "demotion" but all of this has help to define me as an individual. I have taken from work as much as I have put into it so we both have benefited. You will also have similar experiences. My suggestion, always push to be more and don't settle. Strive for more and push for more and make yourself more valuable and hopefully others will see that and reward you for it.

_________________________"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

I guess oyu're right, most everyone ( With a few exceptions) have to start off with hard, boring grunt work for low pay. Actually I just got a job for a granite company where I get to carry around and haul large heavy objects around all day. I'm actually kind of excited it's just what I'm good at (Besides fighting of course, and arguing!lol) and they're supposed to start me off at 8 dollars an hour so I took the job without question. Only problem is I have to get up at around six am and go to work at 7 and I get off at 3:30 I think, but you know oyu take the good with the bad. That kind of job is right up my alley. I'll get decent pay, experience, and even bigger muscles! Yay!

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

I hate when I can't get on myspace and talk to my girl or write down her cell number because it's in one of my messages and myspace is having stupid errors becuase the dee de de tech. unit is full of dumbs**** who can't figure their proplems out which is supposed to be what they're good at!!! BAAAAHHHHH!!! btw Dereck, I found a really great girl. You were right all along. Great huh.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Jkogas, MMA and live training is essential, don't get me wrong, but traditional training with kata has it's place. I agree that training against an unresisting partner is no good but only after you are no longer a beginner. Until you reach the advanced levels it is important.And thank you Dereck.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

I disagree with the notion that kata is important or a required practice.

Most of my guys come in as complete beginners and never do kata or any other forms. However they develop complete games in spite of this. In fact, they develop them even quicker than if I were wasting their time with unnecessary trappings and rituals (kata,etc.) often found within more traditional martial arts.

I personally haven't performed a kata in 20 years, yet my game has only improved with each passing year. In fact, it's been the alive training with partners that has been solely responsible for my progress.

If you enjoy kata, great. Just don't try and tell me its necessary. That would be like saying that you can develop grappling skill by wrestling with yourself, which is of course absurd. The same people who believe that are the ones who believe that wrestling with a grappling dummy improves your ground game. Again, there is no relationship with a real human being.

With ANY form, there is no relationship with a 'live' human opponent. Just because one is a beginner, doesn't mean that you can't train alive from day one. Aliveness isn't brutality.