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[04:53] Keybuk: I received an SMS from a number that I don't recognize saying that they won't be able to make the tech board meeting due to being on a plane
[04:55] what's the country code?
[04:59] Keybuk: so shall we do this, or punt to the next meeting?
[05:00] this isn't necessarily tech board stuff, I suppose, but we do need to talk about it
[05:00] we can have a chat about it, sure
[05:00] only the one thing on the agenda?
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Something which will pass for a tech board meeting
[05:00] yep
[05:01] suppose we better grab a couple of people
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[05:02] I can sense this is going to be of record length
[05:03] Keybuk: er, no, hoary kickoff meeting
[05:03] elmo: the only thing we need to discuss is how to manage the ongoing merges of new packages from Debian
[05:03] daniels: what was last week, dude
[05:03] daniels: the other direction
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[05:04] mdz: ?
[05:04] elmo: Debian, big place with lots of packages
[05:04] mdz: ?
[05:05] elmo: ...
[05:05] *giggle*
[05:05] Keybuk: so anyway, what kind of shape are the tools in for use on an ongoing basis?
[05:05] elmo:
[05:05] ok
[05:05] well, as I understand things
[05:05] packages we haven't modified, elmo's magic will pull from Debian
[05:05] Keybuk: is it feasible to automate at least the generation of the best-effort merges, and file bugs for their review?
[05:06] yeah, I think so
[05:06] if he can flag that a package we've modified has a new Debian version, my stuff can pull previous and current Debian, try to apply the diff to warty, and do it's dropped stuff
[05:06] automating a bug filing ... I have no idea about ... I imagine it's doable though
[05:07] Keybuk: there's a module in debzilla for filing bugs in bugzilla; it's dead easy
[05:07] should we flag them all, or just the ones which the debian patch doesn't apply to?
[05:08] based on the last round, i think at least an eyeball review is called for
[05:08] and a test build
[05:08] yeah, I tend to agree
[05:08] there were a few where patch did odd things
[05:08] though, these are much smaller
[05:08] Keybuk: how do you want me to flag that to you?
[05:08] the ones where it did truly odd things seemed to cause build failures anyway, so they'd be caught
[05:09] having elmo's stuff send notifications sounds hairy; maybe Keybuk's stuff should just pull a Sources file from Debian on its own
[05:09] the main issue is that I'm running on rookery
[05:09] mdz: I can ultra-trivially dump the lorraine output to a text file which keybuk can wget?
[05:09] Keybuk: why's that an issue?
[05:10] elmo: works for me
[05:10] just a text file of source package names elmo thinks Debian have newer than warty would be ideal
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[05:11] sorry I'm late
[05:11] Keybuk: as part of your output, can you include a debdiff from Hoary->the merged version?
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[05:11] yeah, if elmo installs that on rookery
[05:11] good point
[05:12] I've been nagging him for a week to put it on jackass :-P
[05:12] err, you so haven't
[05:12] anyway, it's on rookery
[05:12] Oct 29 12:41:07 elmo: debdiff on jackass, please?
[05:13] would you prefer debdiff from base -> {old hoary, new hoary} as well? instead of just ordinary patch?
[05:13] mdz: ... one IRC message [that I missed] is nagging for a week?
[05:13] elmo: I could dig up more :-)
[05:13] Oct 26 15:25:44 could I get debdiff+interdiff on jackass?
[05:14] mdz: so, this debzilla thing, what's that?
[05:14] Keybuk: that's the thing which creates bugs in bugzilla based on debbugs bugs
[05:14] do you want just main, or main +universe?
[05:15] Keybuk: matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004/debzilla--mainline--0
[05:16] elmo: ideally both, but filterable
[05:16] e.g., mark them as main or not in the text file
[05:16] so we could generate the output for universe, but not file bugs
[05:17] ok
[05:17] Keybuk: work for you?
[05:18] yup
[05:19] Keybuk: yeah, base->new hoary is good too
[05:19] I'm hoping those will be small and easily reviewable
[05:19] has the problem that we often don't have the right base been fixed?
[05:19] yeah, hopefully
[05:19] that bit me with a lot of the last round of merges
[05:19] Kamion: theoretically it's seen the right base now :p
[05:20] but yeah, I'll write some code to string ubuntu* and look on snapshot for that
[05:20] Keybuk: certainly won't've done for some of the ones I'm doing
[05:20] ok
[05:20] string? strip!
[05:20] that's actually easy ... the only reason I didn't do it before is because I'm fallible and didn't think of that
[05:20] keybuk: jackass/lorraine/needs-merged.txt
[05:20] missing universe atm. but is that okay?
[05:21] cool
[05:21] yup
[05:21] I assume it'll be s/main/universe/ :p
[05:21] for universe ones, yes
[05:22] it's "%s %s" % (pkg, component)
[05:22] so I guess we'll find out in the course of doing this, how much manual work it will truly be
[05:23] I think it will be fairly reasonable
[05:23] but hopefully just enough to provide the necessary incentives to push our changes upstream :-)
[05:23] speaking of which, herbert's kernel-package stem patch needs to go upstream
[05:23] what are we doing wrt to the current patches, btw?
[05:24] have they all been pushed, or do we need to push some, etc.
[05:25] we don't have those figures
[05:25] I've been going over d-i stuff as I upload the merges, pushing upstream as appropriate
[05:26] of course we do have a fair volume of stuff that upstream isn't going to want
[05:26] maybe after hoary when we have better tools, we can do a comprehensive review and make sure that everything has been submitted upstream
[05:27] indeed, by far the greatest volume of the d-i patches is branding
[05:27] maybe we'll even have someplace to store that metadata :-P
[05:27] and mark patches as should-go-upstream or not
[05:27] anything else to discuss as part of the meeting?
[05:28] seeds?
[05:28] good call
[05:28] I'm going to finish brutalising hct's cli today ... will work on the continual merge thing tomorrow
[05:28] (viz., having some)
[05:28] should we temporarily use some other repository for the master seed lists until the wiki is fixed?
[05:28] I'm happy with a world-writable text file on rookery, personally :-)
[05:28] they could be part of germinate's source tree
[05:28] we could always use the old wiki?
[05:28] Keybuk: that might be a plan
[05:29] Keybuk: only if we can enable changes on a per-page basis
[05:29] what about a group-writable arch archive?
[05:30] as long as we can get at it from {my dev boxes, little, jackass} that'd work
[05:30] I don't think it should be part of germinate's source tree
[05:31] is the wiki really the best place for it long-term?
[05:31] maybe when we were editing it every day, it was
[05:31] we can keep proposals in the wiki, and move them into the official seeds by other means
[05:32] needs a change history -> arch
[05:32] the nice thing about the wiki is it was a http get for germinate
[05:33] or anything else that wanted to fuck around with seeds
[05:33] elmo: we can do that with arch too
[05:33] a tla get isn't much different, no?
[05:33] elmo: dump a checkout on rookery
[05:33] can't tla dump a file for you in one step?
[05:34] Kamion: yeah, true
[05:34] even if not, a checkout isn't a big deal, I suppose
[05:34] fewer dependencies would be good, but I don't see a problem with having a cronned tla update on people/~cjwatson/seeds/ or whatever
[05:34] I don't see a problem with germinate doing a tla get
[05:34] it's slow enough already :P
[05:35] yeah, exactly :-)
[05:35] what should we call the archive?
[05:35] and where should it go? do we want non-canonical staff to be able to write to it?
[05:36] (I assume the answer is "eventually, yes")
[05:36] right
[05:36] but it isn't a big deal if they can't quite yet
[05:36] it's not something which changes often, and we can propagate things easily enough when there's a consensus
[05:36] so just chinstrap as before then, I guess
[05:36] yeah
[05:37] more a question of a personal archive vs. something else
[05:37] Kamion: fine with me if you want to keep them in your archive next to germinate
[05:37] ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--warty--0 etc.?
[05:37] mdz: that's a bit technically awkward for group-writability, because my archive on chinstrap is only a mirror
[05:38] and y'all don't have logins on my home server
[05:38] ah, separate then, I suppose
[05:38] does anyone know if we have an official naming scheme for public archives from the arch guys?
[05:38] we do for imports, yes
[05:38] anything which we could apply here as well, for consistency?
[05:39] @arch.ubuntu.com[---] /----
[05:39] Kamion's idea seemed sound to me
[05:39] the ubuntu-devel one?
[05:39] yeah
[05:40] works for me
[05:40] if there are no objections, I can create that after the meeting, import warty's seeds, and tag them onto hoary
[05:40] we can always change it if the arch secret police object
[05:40] Kamion: sounds good
[05:40] we have a bunch of seed changes to review and effect
[05:41] I have a list from the kickoff meeting
[05:41] and I believe there is stuff in the wiki for hoary
[05:42] arything else to discuss?
[05:42] not from me
[05:43] ok, adjourned
[05:44] thanks, guys
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Community Council Meeting, 2004-11-09 1600UTC
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