9/11/06: I Am Angry Today

On this day, millions of us are suffering through an onslaught of emotions as we remember where we were and what we were doing five years ago. Personally, I was witnessing the destruction of the World Trade Center with a telephoto lens, standing on the side of the New Jersey Turnpike, with strangers as my companions. A priest was standing with a rabbi nearby and they were both praying.

A few days later, I went into the city with my camera to document the aftermath of what had happened. The streets smelled of pulverized concrete. Acrid. Handmade posters were everywhere, as were media vans and trucks overflowing with supplies and volunteers headed to the disaster site. Vigils in places like Washington Square Park and Union Square brought hundreds, some mourning, some curious. You could walk through the streets of New York without looking over your shoulder to see if you were being followed. You were, but they were going to the same place as you: some place they could make sense of this new world.

This September 11, I am angry. Last night, to prepare her for the assembly and outpouring of patriotism that would inevitably be waiting for her at school today, I had to explain to my seven-year-old daughter about September 11 and war. She listened as I pointed out pictures of the twin towers and other notable sights in a LIFE book about the aftermath of the attack. She asked questions. “But why did people want to fly planes into buildings?” “Why do people want to make war?” I showed her a picture of President Bush and said, “I don’t know, but it’s his fault.”

I’m angry today because Bush is conspicuously making the rounds making speeches he did not write and public please for solidarity and pride. He’s busy playing politics to save his party’s reputation while it is us, the American people who suffer from his own bravado and poor decision-making skills. He stands in his pulpit saying, yes, I knew the CIA had been holding al-Qaeda suspects in secret prisons for years and it was probably illegal, just like the tribunals I’m sending them to face, but don’t worry because now that I think it will make my party look good, I’m going to push to make what I did legal. And the press just nods its head.

He says, hey, I know a federal judge ruled that my wiretapping program was illegal, but I want to expand its reach and that’s alright because I’m the president and I say so. Oh, and yes, I knew that intelligence showed that there was no connection between al-Qaeda and Iraq, but we’re there now anyway and we will win this war on terror, even though we’re not really fighting the terrorists. And the press just nods its head. Good show, President.

I am angry because I live in a country where this type of public lying is condoned and inaction is what reigns because of the fear of upsetting political ties within one party or another. I am angry because of the tens of thousands of troops that were sent to far of places we have no business in to come home maimed or in pine boxed. I am angry that my government has done nothing to ensure the safety of its people by heeding the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission, the body it convened to find out what happened five years ago and what can be done to prevent it in the future.

I’m angry because today, I am less safe than I was in 2001, and again this morning, I had to try to explain to my daughter why two of her uncles have to fight in a war where they have to kill people and face the threat of being killed themselves. My best answer to her is that I don’t understand it either. It seems pretty obvious to me: violence only makes more violence and no one gets what they want in the end; revenge is a concept that lives in a vicious circle of illogical that again, serves no purpose as everyone loses; and religion ends up being a poor excuse to hurt other people rather than the personal strength it was meant to be.

Why do we continue to live in a country where the political system lets down the people it serves every day? Why don’t we stand up and say that Bush is not functional as a leader and he needs to be replaced? Oh, and by the way, can we have more of a choice for leadership than a Democrat or a Republican? Sure in theory anyone can run for president, but the reality is that the system as it stands, is a two-party system that is so afraid of losing power that it shuts everyone else out. Ask Ross Perot, the Independent who was bullied out of the race twice.

What we need is new vision and new leadership. Someone who sees that what has been done in the past is not working. Someone who sees that we need to concentrate on what’s going on in our country before we worry about anyone else. Someone who sees that the larger issue than politics and money is living on a planet that’s about to get very inhospitable and instead of looking to preserve the future of big oil, looks to develop REALISTIC alternative fuel sources. Someone who has the courage to say major changes need to be made in how we do things in America.

The American people are the only ones who can make this happen, and it’s about time we started speaking up. Otherwise, we have only ourselves to blame for our fate.

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“He stands in his pulpit saying, yes, I knew the CIA had been holding al-Qaeda suspects in secret prisons for years and it was probably illegal, just like the tribunals I’m sending them to face, but don’t worry because now that I think it will make my party look good, I’m going to push to make what I did legal. And the press just nods its head.”

What is your fucking problem Robin?

You’re mad because we held AL QUEDA illegally?

You’re angry because the guys who were behind 911 were being held by our government?

If that makes you mad what would make you happy Robin? Having Osama fucking Bin Laden throw out the first pitch at the world series?

Would that put a smile on your face?

Arch Conservative

The fact is the ISLAMOWAHCKJOBS that were being held were trying to kill you and me and every other American and our government was holding them to get information. I guess you’d rather seem them all get ACLU lawyers and file lawsuits huh?

One second you’re bashing Bush for not keeping us safe and the next your complaining that he’s going too far.

I am so sick of people like you whining about Bush and torture and terrorists rights. You’re a disgrace to everyone who died on 911!

Arch Conservative

I am so sick of people like you whining about Bush and torture and terrorists rights. You’re a disgrace to everyone who died on 911!

One second you’re bashing Bush for not keeping us safe and the next your complaining that he’s going too far.

The fact is we are at war with ISLAMOFACISM. You need to wake up and realize that we have to get our hands dirty to protect ourselves. If you don’t have the stomach for it too damn bad. Just keep your piehole shut and let the people who do take care of the problem.

Arch Conservative

hmmm APPARENTLY IF I SAY AL QUEDA SHOULD BE TORTURED AND KILLED I WILL GET CENSORED.

GREAT!

http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

It’s not censorship, Arch Craphound. If you want to spew stupid crap, go pay for your own damn web site. If you’re going to continue being a freeloader on someone else’s dime, you’d better learn to accept that they have the ultimate right to decide just how much of your bigoted anti-American ranting they will pay to publish.

IgnatiusReilly

Arch, you are a disgrace to everyone who survived on 9/11.

Robin Kavanagh

Arch Conservative,

A few things:
Comment 1: “You’re mad because we held AL QUEDA illegally?” Well, I don’t believe I said that. I said I’m mad that Bush decided to let them go to further his political ends. The fact is that no matter what you think is right or wrong, the law is the law and not even the president is above it. If I held a press conference saying I broke the law, I would be arrested, no matter what the crime is. Bush, somehow, is not subject to the same laws. Personally, I don’t care that al-Quaeda (yes, please learn to spell)operatives were held in secret prisions. I care that Bush thinks he can do whatever he wants and not have to face the consequences, and then use his blatant disregard for the law to make people think he’s a hero.

Comment 2:”I guess you’d rather seem them all get ACLU lawyers and file lawsuits huh?” Again, I don’t believe I said anything about terrorist rights. Sounds more like your problem than mine.

Comment 3: “I am so sick of people like you whining about Bush and torture and terrorists rights. You’re a disgrace to everyone who died on 911!” Boy, you really don’t know how to read, do you?

Comment 4: “The fact is we are at war with ISLAMOFACISM. You need to wake up and realize that we have to get our hands dirty to protect ourselves. If you don’t have the stomach for it too damn bad. Just keep your piehole shut and let the people who do take care of the problem.” Ok, first off, “Islamofacism” is not a real word, I don’t care what Bush says. Second, before you go accusing people of whining, maybe you should stop and hear exactly what they are saying. Did I ever say that we shouldn’t get our hands dirty? No. I said that the adminisitration is too busy playing politics to see the situation for what it is and make smart decisions. It’s not conservatives or Islamist that make me mad. It’s idiots. Idiots like Bush who think that everything he says and does is justified because he’s president. Idiots who think blowing themselves and other things up is ever going to get them what they want.

Maybe next time you’ll take the time to actually listen to what other people have to say before you make a spectacle of yourself five times on the Internet because you can’t read.

http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

I don’t really share the sentiments of this article. Having said that, there’s really only one thing left to say.

Arch Conservative, shut the fuck up.

http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

Whoa.

When Mark Bellinghaus had what can only be called a cyber-meltdown on this site a few months ago, I said to myself, “Wow, I’ll never see one of THOSE again.”

But Arch Conservative, today you have finally done what I never thought you could do. You have proven me wrong about something.

http://yoshi2me.blogspot.com Angela

New vision and new leadership would just give you somebody else to blame. Go figure!?

http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

I’m angry because today, I am less safe than I was in 2001

I would submit that you FEEL less safe, but there’s very little evidence that you actually ARE less safe. You were just as safe or unsafe before 9/11, you just didn’t know it.

Dave

Von Zipper

“Why do people want to make war?” I showed her a picture of President Bush and said, “I don’t know, but it’s his fault.”

So you want your child to grow up to be as irrational and myopic as yourself?

Ruvy in Jerusalem

Robin,

I know why you are angry. Empathise is not strong enough to say how I feel. Your incompetent leader has wasted precious blood and money on a fool’s errand in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the fact that Bush is a fool is showing up every day in the news headlines, no matter what he says. You feel suckered and used.

That’s how an awful lot of us feel here. The big difference is that the only Americans who have to be in harm’s way sign on the dotted line to do so. The reservists who form the base of our army are draftees, not volunteers. After being suckered by an idiot who is no better than a traitor, they are now demonstrating just how they feel. And their brave leader is jettisoning his associates to save his own ass.

But Olmert and Peres, the ones ultimately responsible for this disaster are not resigning, as the reservists are calling on them to. We are just as stuck with them as you are with Bush. In fact, if there were a coup d’état today to ditch the trash that runs this country, you can bet that the NATO force off Lebanon would fly right in to put their puppets back in power.

So, as angry as you are, I, and many Israelis, even many Israelis who do not share my overall political or religious orientation, are angrier.

troll

so…Robin’s anger is not sufficiently and realistically fear based – ?

you don’t think that every few years ‘international terrorists’ will successfully hit a ‘high value’ target in the US – ?

http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

I’m angry too. But not for any of the same reasons.

I’m angry because of all this goddamned overwrought media coverage. Yes, I said overwrought. Nine-eleven was a horrible tragedy, one of the worst and most paradigm-shifting days in American history, and personally the worst day of my life. None of that gives the media license to pimp the Hell out of it the way they did yesterday.

http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

That’s why you watch football. Redskins and Vikings on Monday night. A couple soldiers, a couple firemen, a few sprinkled thoughts of the anniversary, and that’s all I got exposed to.

Robin Kavanagh

Von Zipper,

Did I miss something? Was there someone else who decided that US troops should invade Afghanistan and Iraq? Bush was the only person who had the authority to do so, as it wasn’t Congress’ idea; it just authorized it.

Myopic? Hardly. The soulution that was inmplimented was myopic. We were attacked, so let’s attack someone else. Since when is killing people the only solution to conflict? It’s childish and I think the results of the Iraq invasion have proved how myopic that vision was.

Oh yeah, and then there’s that thing that Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Yes, the regime was barbarous, but so are the ruling parties in so many other countries. Why Iraq? It doesn’t make sense. Sounds more like a personal vendetta to me. If wanting the actions of my government to make logical sense for all of us is irrational, then so be it.

Nancy

Those in states w/primaries today-GET OUT & VOTE! It’s the ONLY way to get BushCo’s rubber stamp congress out of power, and the ONLY way to remove Bush & hold him accountable! GO OUT & VOTE!!!!!

RedTard

“I showed her a picture of President Bush and said, ‘I don’t know, but it’s his fault.'”

Typical, at least you were honest about your level of knowledge to your daughter, you do indeed have no clue. That doesn’t seem to stop you spouting and ranting just the kind of nonsense the American left has been promoting all these years. Propaganda $$$’s at work!!!!!

Arch Conservative

“I showed her a picture of President Bush and said, ‘I don’t know, but it’s his fault.'”

Did you tell her bedtime stories about enron and the evil neocons? Or maybe you about a handsome prince names slick willie who all the ladies loved.

It’s people like you that are the problem not Bush Robin. You think that terrorism started when Bush got elected? i guess I imagined Munich 72 Beiruit 83 wtc 93 and the rest huh. I guess we deserved 911 because we were stupid and elected Bush right?

The argument that our presence in Iraq is only creating more terroists is bullshit. What about Denmark? they don’t have any forces in islamic nation yet they have been victims of islamic terroism. Look at the cartoon contreversy.

Again… western civilization is at war with islamofacism and I hope our government does everything they can to protect us, even if that means breaking laws to get the info they need.

Nancy

Terrorism got its second wind and its (to them) justification from Bush; he & his hamhanded, incompetent administration have – according to bin Laden & various Al Queda leaders, as well as various leaders of Hamas & Hezbollah – been the #1 source & inspiration for muslim resentment & increase in recruits to various terror organizations. Prior to Bush, there was terrorism, but the US was not targeted as broadly or specifically as it is thanks to him.

In any event, by his own admission, and also by plentiful evidence he himself has provided (i.e. TV, press conferences, documents, etc.)Bush has proved himself a liar, a fraud, and a criminal who has repeatedly violated US laws, and in the opinion of now well over half the US, he’s also an incompetent & a fool; and there’s a considerable segment of us both in the US and abroad who also consider him a thief and a murderer. With any luck, the Dems will take down the one-sided GOP rubberstamp congress that currently protects his lying ass & subsequently impeach and hang him so high, he’ll freeze-dry in the stratosphere. And when he comes down, I hope I’m there to piss on his carcass.

zingzing

so, archie, you don’t see any connection between us destroying a country and the rise of terrorism in that country after the fact? you don’t see how our (the “coalition’s,” not just the usa’s) armed presence in arab countries would piss them off at a very basic level, so that arabs in denmark (or in spain, or in britain, or in the usa) would try to strike back wherever they are, especially–ESPECIALLY–in the light of the cartoon controversy? do you not understand this whole ‘circle of violence’ thing we are playing into? can you see it in the arab-israeli conflict? can you not see it here? why?

ss

To be fair:

It’s old Europe’s fault violent demagogs like Nasser and Arafat got wide support in the Middle East as long as they stood up to the West.

It’s the people of the Middle East’s fault they backed losers like Nasser, Assad, Arafat, Kadafi, etc., just because they stood up to the West.

It’s Carter, the Shaw, Brezhnev, and Reagan’s fault the Shiite Fundementalists and Arab ‘Afghan’ Jihadis so easily milked the frustration on the Arab street after the failures and defeats of the Arab nationalists.

It’s Bush v1.0, Clinton, and European policy towards it’s Arab immigrants’ fault we didn’t do more to nip this in the bud when it still needed safe havens to grow.

It’s the Jihadis fault they take Muslim frustrations and use it to teach young men to fight a war they can gain nothing from.

It’s bin Laden’s fault we’re in Afghanistan.

It’s Bush’s fault we’re in Iraq, and Rumsfield’s fault the insurgency there has so many of Sadam’s old artillery shells to wire up and use as bombs.

It’s the insurgents fault they chose to do so.

It’s the militiamen’s fault their acting as badly as Bathists.

It’s the Kurds fault they’re bombing the Turks, it’s the Shiites fault their looting the bases the British hand over to them.

Baronius

There’s a running joke on conservative talk radio about “Bush Derangement Syndrome”. Otherwise-rational people become hysterical when discussing the President. This article is a stunning example of BDS. It’s interesting that most every right-winger on the boards choked over the same anecdote, with the daughter and the picture of Bush. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to be appalled by it. Even if you think that Bush and the evil Neocons invaded Iraq for fun and profit, how does that mean Bush is responsible for 9/11? It’s pretty basic causality. (Bush’s actions in 2002 didn’t cause the War of 1812, either.)

http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

ss didn’t mention me, I am so off the hook.

Clavos

(Bush’s actions in 2002 didn’t cause the War of 1812, either.)

Jeez, I wish you hadn’t said that, Baronius!

Now, some raving leftie is bound to figure out a bogus chain of causation!

Von Zipper

“But why did people want to fly planes into buildings?” …I showed her a picture of President Bush and said, “I don’t know, but it’s his fault.”

Robin–That contains the part I also meant to add/respond to: …why did people people want to fly planes into buildings?”

It’s Bush’s fault for that too? What an asinine statement.

Arch Conservative

That’s the way it works when you’re a moonbat Von Zipper. if something goes wrong blame bush……

Of course Bush deserves blame for 911. he was president when it happened.

But to hold a picture of Bush up to and juts say “it’s his fault” does seem alittle “myopic” as Von zipper stated.

Did your daughter also ask you why we ahven’t had another terroist attack on our soil our against our interests abroad since 911 Robin?

If she did whose picture did you hold up and say “no and it’s thanks to this guy”?

Lumpy

It seems to me that lying to a child like that ought to be considered some form of child abuse. It’s reminiscent of the KKK parents who dress little kids in white robes and teach them to salute Hitler.

Baronius

“I am angry that my government has done nothing to ensure the safety of its people by heeding the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission”

Nothing? I googled the 9/11 Commission’s recommendations. Their report had recommendations in four broad categories:

attack terrorists
prevent growth of terrorism
prevent and prepare for future attacks
restructure the intelligence community

We seem to be doing well on Point 1. The Commission included pressuring weak allies, such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. That’s been tough, but I’m surprised at the success we’ve had. Bin Laden represents our one big failure.

You can argue about Point 2. Humanitarian aid, great. Freezing assets, excellent. PR, horrible. You couldn’t come up with a worse image than an American female in uniform making fun of an Arab’s genitals. Abu Ghraib wasn’t just a PR disaster, but it was a PR disaster.

Point 3. No one talks to a goalie when he’s on his way to a shut-out. I don’t want to jinx anything, but it’s been quiet.

Point 4. The administration has implemented a lot of the Commission’s recommendations. I don’t think that Congress has enacted their structural changes, but we wouldn’t hear about it if they did.

Robin Kavanagh

Lumpy, if I followed your logic, then I could in good conscience say that when parents teach their children about religion, that’s considered child abuse too, right? Since I don’t believe in organized religion, I would consider that lying to a child.

The point is that all of this is perspective. You have yours and I have mine. I am sure that if you have kids, you’d be very surprised if they grew up to be liberals considering your own conservative politics. Would that be considered child abuse too? Somehow, I don’t think so.

Arch Conservative

What type of perspective is it that leads you to place ALL of the blame for Iraq and islamic terroism on George Bush Robin?

Robin Kavanagh

Zipper,

You know what, you’re right. Reading over that statement I realize what I wrote could be taken as something other than what I meant to say. So let me set the record straight.

I don’t think that 9/11 is Bush’s fault. It was the culmination of years and years of bad decisions and tensions around the world and irrationality.

What I do think is Bush’s fault is the action that has been taken since. I don’t believe that killing and invading other people’s countries will solve any conflict. It simply doesn’t make sense. So when I said that “It’s his fault,” I was talking about the war.

Some commenters have said they think we’re at war with “islamofascism.” Well, how can a country be at war with a poorly-named concept? The fact is that there are many people who don’t agree with the choices this country has made for many decades. These are the same types of choices that have plagued the conflicts of history. We keep making the same mistakes over and over, and people are getting pissed. So what do they do? What’s in their nature. They bash and destroy and say, “We will kill you!!”

Instead of bringing the beef many in the world seem to have with us down to the level of a schoolyard pissing contest, everyone needs to just swallow their egos, sit down and come to a rational solution. The problem is that there are no rational people on any side of this issue, as the two-day comments to this post alone have shown. Everyone has to be right and in the process, everyone loses.

This is the root of my anger and frustration. No one seems willing to address the base problems here and everyone gets caught up in this cycle of violence and “He pushed me first so now I have to blow up his country.”

But as the right wingers are sure to have a field day disecting this comment and taking everything I just wrote out of context and adding their own agendas to it to make some point that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about, I guess that the cycle will continue. Though without me. I will not comment on this topic anymore, since it amounts to the same thing as begetting the cycle of violence.

You swear you’re right and there’s nothing anyone can ever do to change that. I don’t want to change your mind, nor am I trying to. I am just excercising the right to speak my own.

I think that history has proven that the two party system in the republic in which we live no longer functions, and it’s time that we get some election day choices other than Dem or Rep. But I guess that sentiment got lost in all the bluster around me having the audacity to question Bush. Silly me.

Ruvy in Jerusalem

Robin,

I agree with most of what you have said here – you are right that you cannot have a “war on terror” or a “war against Islamo-fascism”. But the fact still stands that Islam is in the process of being taken over by a sect called the Wahhabi, and their philosophy is simple: You are either one of them, or you are dead. End of discussion. There is no peace to be had with them or the organizations which subscribe to their beliefs, and thanks to Saudi (ibn Saud, the man who seized Arabia with western money, is a Wahhabi) oil money, those organizations grow stronger every single day.

So there is an address to send the missiles, and a name for the enemy – SAUDI ARABIA.

There does need to be a war, unfortunately, because of the enemy philosophy. There just is no room to negotiate with that mentality. That is a hard thing for westerners to swallow but it is, unfortunately, the truth.

The nastiest part of it all is that your president’s family helped bring this curse upon us, and your president is nothing but a junior head waiter for the Saudis.

Nancy

And the true “appeaser” in this war against “Islamofascism” aka Wahabism is George W. Bush, who is firmly in the pay of the Saudis, and who would rather destroy the US than abjure our true enemies.

ss

I see now I was wrong.
To be fair, when considering the failures of Middle Eastern governments and peoples in the modern era, and every foriegn policy mistake made by the U.S. and it’s allies when dealing with this troubled region, one name stands out for condemnation. One man betrayed our trust and shattered our niave preconceptions about the fundemental decency of human nature and the omnipotence of American power.
One man alone must shoulder the blame.

Matthew T. Sussman

ss

You sir, are so not off the hook.

Ruvy in Jerusalem

ss magisterially concludes, “You sir, are so not off the hook.”

So, Matt, how does it feel to be fish bait?

Sorry, Robin. The nonsense eventually hits every comment list – even at my articles…

ss

Ruvy, I made my serious comment at post #24. Incomplete as it was, I was being serious.

By the way, this is a little off topic for the post, but I’ve been wanting to run this by you…
What do you make of the sudden rise of this Islamic Courts Militia in Somalia, and the reports that cargo jets from an Uzbeki transport company have been landing at Mogadishu airport?
Our press says this fundy Islamic militia is getting it’s guns from Eritrea, dutifully repeating whatever our State Dept/CIA tells them, no doubt.
Personally, I smell Wahabi money at work once again.
And bin-Laden told his boys to go to ‘North Africa’ in one of his audio tapes a month or two ago. Coincidentlly enough.

http://www.1bigdragon.blogspot.com Peter J

You’re wrong Robin, in 34 you recant “it’s not Bush’s fault”.
Bullshit. Don’t be intimidated into saying what someone else means. There were other factors contributing to the events on 9/11 but none with greater fault than Bush.

Bush had fair warning from several sources as to a situation involving Bin Ladin causing great destruction to the U.S. but as “the decider” he decided to ignore them.

Everything wrong in this country is not the fault of the Democrats, nor is it the fault of the Republicans. It is the fault of the extremists of either party. They have to be 100% right and their adversaries must be 100% wrong.

That comment alone describes why these things can happen. No matter what party or faction of a party you swear loyalty to you are first an American and that should supercede all else. “All for the good of the Nation”.

The fact that we have factions who show that their loyalties lie somewhere else and you, as an American, recognize that shows that you pay enough attention to the world around you to make an intelligent call.

The fact that you don’t like Bush does not make you a traitor, or ignorant or a ‘lefty’ or whatever category people will put you in. Don’t worry about what others say, it doesn’t matter, besides, consider the scources.

I do not like Bush, there’s not a good quality I can find but I’m surel going to vote Republican in the next presidential election, unless of course JFK is re-animated.

Use your own judgement, no matter what names you are called.

http://cafepress.com/impeachshrub Jmaximus

Two Words: “Loose Change”… Bush and his NeoCon masters are the real ones behind 911, not some Islamic patsies…

Von Zipper

Wake Up, People!!

ModerateTruth

Oh, come on people! I came to this site because it was reviewed as an intelligent discussion of the issues. Arch and Red only want to throw fuel on the fire so they can high five their buddies and talk about how they slammed a liberal today. Arch you don’t even belong in an intelligent discussion. Red you accuse others of spouting and ranting while you are the only one carrying on that nonsense.

Robyn, you are obviously intelligent and you make a cogent argument. You went to the line on the child thing but I have to admit my 6 year old is mad at Bush for being in a war. He doesn’t understand all of the ramifications of why we are at war only that war is bad and he blames the president. Of course at 6 he thinks the president is the whole government.

Unfortunately, this president has a congress of his party who have insulated him from investigation. That foundation is starting to crack. More each day we are hearing of conservatives that are breaking with their party. Those like Colin Powell who were double crossed by the administration are starting to get their voice back. Bush is a lame duck who will become more of a target in the next two years. It is going to be a rough ride for you smarmy ultra conservatives because all the laws this administration has broken will come back to haunt you. Choose your words carefully lest you must eat them. No man is above the law.

Nancy

Good Lord, Moderate Truth! Who told you that!?

http://markgriggs.blogspot.com/ ModerateTruth

Oh, the review, I saw the ad in Mental Floss and then read some online reviews. But really what is the use in blogging and discussion if it is not productive. Why would anyone just want to wallow in what we are and not aspire to be more? If we the people do not offer solutions then who will?

SS has some good stuff. Baronius makes good points. It is excellent to hear an international view from Ruvy. But Arch, Lumpy and Red are just idiots. No rhyme or reason. Like many ultras they just follow the in crowd because they have no opinion and no ideas.

I will continue to make the point. There was group called the Nazis who had a bunch of guys called the brown shirts who shouted down people who disagreed with their conservative politics and beat others in the streets. Watch out for the ones who cannot disagree without discrediting. Be wary of those who tell you that you do not have the right to disagree with the government. They are the real enemies of freedom.

Nancy

We do get some good discussions going; I was being facetious. However, you are right: there is a certain group here who can be counted on to ignore discussion in favor of shouting down “the enemy” – which is anyone not a fellow neocon like themselves. Don’t know “Lumpy” – thank God, probably – but there’s at least a couple others in that group. Some of us, on the other hand, are just conservative: Dave Nalle, Clavos, etc. they are willing to discuss things at least. Then there’s the ‘far left’ contingent (LOL – at least, that’s what the neocons claim) including Jet, zingzing, Gonzo, & a few others. Actually Shark & Gonzo are in their own categories. I’m generally to the left but can be far right, depending on the issue – and can be utterly obnoxious about it, too, same as anybody else. Except for a few spoiler trolls who descend to pottymouthing & namecalling because they’re unable to marshall arguments or think logically, it’s not a bad group at all. Stick around & give us a try for awhile. You’ll learn to just blip over the loudmouth brownshirts. I suspect every blogsite has their share. This blogsite tries harder than most to keep it civil.

Philip

Peter–“I do not like Bush, there’s not a good quality I can find but I’m surel going to vote Republican in the next presidential election, unless of course JFK is re-animated.”

JFK..hmmm…Gulf of Tonkin, Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Missle Crisis, better be careful there. You might get what you wish for.