I have tried for ages to find some legit spells and other practical stuff online. The only legit-ish things I have found in the internet where on the 50th + pages of google.

I know that Google and all other search engines target and show as results the most popular and likable websites etc. That's why the tons and tons of wiccan or general fluff aimed results.

I even tried tor search engines such as notevil etc. but they are too confusing to use and lots of the results are dead links.

Any suggestions as to where someone can find the real deal? Tips about Google, other search engines or other helpful tips for tor web?

EDIT: I am already a practitioner. I am mostly using techniques I have learnt from my family, and creating my own "spells" when I am in need for something new. Because of course when my family created or found these things, they did not have the modern lifestyle my generation has, so there are a lot of things missing.

In order to do the research I want to do , I have to have a subject to read and study. So I am looking to find other spells and techniques, some similar to the ones I have, some that I do not even know... A variety of them, do my research, find similarities, study their composition, enrich my "strategy", get new ideas and insights, develop things more.

Other people may have a different opinion on this, but I'll write from personal experience. If you want a magical operation to work without exhausting your own reservoir of personal energy then spirits are usually the way to go. I'm sure you have done your research but the classics are classics for a reason; and definitely still contain keys within them. However, you might need spiritual authority in some ways to make this work. Well, what exactly is it? What is spiritual authority? In my experience its usually very similar to spiritual magnetism. A person with a lot of spiritual magnetism can make a lot of things happen, control week minds, and definitely control spirits.

I decided to contribute a little bit here because I haven't enjoyed seeing this place go down hill from what it was and wanted to contribute from my personal experience.

A good way to start is to begin chipping away at the Abremelin Operation, not the complete undertaking obviously but it doesn't hurt to learn a good routine. Combine this with F. Bardons Evocation book, although many purists would have a heart attack at even thinking about starting there. Others may disagree, that's fine. But I will say those individuals that I've met with spiritual magnetism and authority have all done austerities to purify their minds and there bodies.

Let me help you cite that. Parroting is a pretty big problem in TDS and it definitely doesn't help the credibility.

Quote from: Kemetin

The same happens all the time with relationships - divorces are a great example, a couple can be convinced that they are deeply in love at one stage, then once they become divorced a year or two later they shift their focus to the negative aspects of their previous relationship and convince themselves that they hated the other person all along, focus solely on their negative traits, downplay the positive memories of their relationship to bring their memories in line with their current point of view, etc.

Everything below are excerpts from Cultwatch.com. Personal insertions are inside brackets. ----------Here are some example of what Cultwatch believes represents mind control and cult warning signs:

-Single charismatic leader.-People always seeming constantly happy and enthusiastic. Especially if you discover that they have been told to act that way for the potential new recruits.-Instant friends.-If you are told who you can or cannot talk to or associate with.-They hide what they teach.-Say they are the only true group, or the best so why go anywhere else.-Hyped meetings, get you to meetings rather than share with you.-Experiential rather than logical.-Asking for money for the next level.-They will push you to obey by using guilt. They will demand complete “submission” to the group, its leaders and its teachings. They will do this by making you feel absolutely rotten about yourself. They will ridicule you and attack any weakness you might have (or invent weaknesses you might have if they can’t find any). Their goal is to break your will by causing you mental anguish.

Deception:

A cult will have a slick well-rehearsed Public Relations front which hides what the group is really like. You will hear how they help the poor, or support research, or peace, or the environment. They will tell you how happy you will be in their group (and everyone in the cult will always seem very happy and enthusiastic, mainly because they have been told to act happy and will get in trouble if they don’t). But you will not be told what life is really like in the group, nor what they really believe. These things will be introduced to you slowly, one at a time, so you will not notice the gradual change, until eventually you are practicing and believing things which at the start would have caused you to run a mile.

Exclusivity The cult leaders need to make you believe that there is no where else you can go and still be saved, and if you ever leave the “one true church[temple, order, etc..]” then you are going to "hell". This is a fear based control mechanism designed to keep you in the cult. It also gives the cult leaders tremendous power over you. If you really believe that leaving the group equals leaving God (or means you are leaving your only chance to succeed in life), then you will obey the cult leaders even when you disagree with them instead of risking being kicked out of the group. Exclusivity is used as a threat, it controls your behavior through fear.Note:Be very suspicious of any group that claims to be better than all the others. A religious group may say that other groups following the same religion are OK, but they are the ones who have a better grasp of the truth and they are superior to the rest. This is often just a subtle version of exclusivism. [Prominently used in TDS]

Love Bombing and Relationship ControlCults know that if they can control your relationships then they can control you. Whether we like it or not we are all profoundly affected by those around us. When you first go to a cult they will practice “love bombing”, where they arrange instant friends for you. It will seem wonderful, how could such a loving group be wrong! But you soon learn that if you ever disagree with them, or ever leave the cult then you will lose all your new “friends”. This unspoken threat influences your actions in the cult. Things that normally would have made you complain will pass by silently because you don’t want to be ostracized. Like in an unhealthy relationship love is turned on and off to control.

Cults also try to cut you off from your friends and family because they hate others being able to influence you. A mind control cult will seek to manoeuvre your life so as to maximize your contact with cult members and minimize your contact with people outside the group, especially those who oppose your involvement.

Reporting Structure

In a mind control cult like in Nazi Germany or Communist Russia you must be careful of what you say and do; “The walls have ears”. Everyone is encouraged to watch out for “struggling” brothers and sisters and report what they see to leadership. Often information given in deepest confidence is automatically reported to leadership. Cult leaders will then use this information to convince their members that they have a supernatural link [frequently used in TDS], the trusting member does not suspect the very natural mechanism behind the supernatural revelations they are given.

People in a mind control cult will also hide their true thoughts and feelings, and instead wear a mask which presents them as a perfect cult member. This mask is a defense against being reported to leadership and being punished for not measuring up (cult members never feel like they measure up to the cult’s ideals, and yet often believe the other members around them do, when in reality the others feel the same as them). Hence cult members are trained not only to deceive outsiders, but also to deceive their fellow cult members. Rarely can close friendships form in cults, and if they do the cult’s leaders may see them as a threat and move those people away from each other. Nothing is allowed that can be more powerful than the cult members’ allegiance to the group and it’s leaders.

I first met Ramose here on Veritas and was apart of his very first magic classes back in 2002-2003. I was about fifteen years old and he must have been roughly the same age. He was mostly just my online "teacher", I didn't know how young he was at the time. Fast forward x amount of years until he started a little ashram in Florida where myself and a couple others were invited to live. I still hadn't moved there until at least two years later.

During this time period the initial cult-like mentality began which I was whole-heartedly apart of, because I didn't know any better. What I mean by cult mentality is that they developed the inner circle which those living at the ashram were apart of. Our egos were fluffed partly because we were teenagers, and also by references to our karma and past lives, a manipulative technique to get people interested in what you're offering because they want to hear more about how special they themselves might be. I can now recognize this through years of life experience, but at the time was all for it. We would meet online via Skype every week, have a "lecture" and "shaktipat" and he would tell us what old, high souls we all were for practicing the system which at the time was just yoga. I am not insinuating that he made the exact same statements and remarks every time, I am just trying to make a point that it was something that was referenced often enough to get us hooked. Eventually this ashram came to a close because peoples parents started getting concerned and involved as we were all still quite young and impressionable.

After several months had passed, I finally went down to visit Ramose at his new home. While I was there, the plans for the school started to evolve. I don't know the exact details verbatim but there was this "divine inspiration", a message from the spirit "Metatron", telling Ramose and Veos that they were to be in charge of saving Western mysticism. Roughly two years after that, they invited me to live with them again. I moved from New York to Florida where I lived in their small home. They were generous in that they provided for me and allowed me to stay there free of charge while learning the practices. While at this house, the school finally started as Ramose began offering classes on another private website that he owned. He began to recruit more people for TDS through this website and soon more people began to visit from different parts of the United States.

I stayed in Florida for five months and moved back to New York to go back to college. As a result of this, some odd behaviors started to emanate from the "inner circle". They would often make me feel guilty for my personal choices in choosing to leave to finish school and pressure and coax me to come back and be with them. I still was heavily involved with TDS online and would visit them every three months. Every time I would visit in person, the pressure to stay or move back down there would increase through more ego fluffing and guilt tripping because of the "inner/secret teachings" that I was missing. At the time, their tactics were effective on me. I felt extremely guilty for not being there and also felt very conflicted as in my heart I felt finishing school in NY was the best course of action for me. Upon reflection, I recognize the fine line between teacher/spiritual advice and manipulation/control of a students personal life was being crossed. There was also an instance while I was in Florida which Ramose specifically told me not to get a girlfriend because "it could only end in one way." (probably the way it ended, lol)

This is the time when the relationship between myself and the other students became more tense because they would end up echoing words of Ramose and Veos and rumors about me. Eventually, I did fall in love with a girl while I was in college, and this is where a lot of issues really began to surface. I carried on for a few months without telling Ramose or anyone in TDS about my girlfriend for fear that I would be chastised for going against the "masters orders". For obvious reasons, she became concerned and upset that I was hiding her from this group of people that was supposedly so close and important to me. Once they found out that I had a girlfriend, there was a backlash of rumors, gossip and negativity about my status in TDS, my future plans and rumors about my girlfriend whom no one had ever seen, spoken to or met. This caused tension on both ends.

In an effort to ease the tension, I wanted to bring my girlfriend to Florida and introduce her to all at TDS to prove to her that "you had to meet them to understand", despite all of the negativity that was weighing on me. When I asked Ramose if I could bring her, he refused unless she was apart of the school. This was a red flag along with other emails and a harassing phone call I received from other members of the school regarding their concerns about my girlfriend. (Almost a year and a half later, they decided to "allow her to visit", but at that point we were no longer interested.)

I did notice throughout all of these years in TDS that my life did not get any better, in fact it continually got worse personally, emotionally and psychologically. I eventually met another teacher who practices Raja yoga and tours the country offering free meditation programs. This is not a comparison of this teacher to Ramose & Veos, rather an objective analysis of my direct experience. I went to visit Swami Ken at his ashram and spent a little over a week there with my girlfriend and another friend. We went there having only met him once at a meditation program. This experience really opened my eyes to A.) the fact that other teachers did exist and were legitimate (in TDS there is an undertone that there is no one greater than Ramose & Veos), and B.) that legitimate teachings can be offered without drama, judgment or meddling in the affairs of the students personal life. While I was there, I received the email that I posted a few pages back in this thread. Ramose condemned and belittled me for participating in the activities at the ashram in which I missed one of the TDS lectures. The tone of superiority from Ramose is obvious in that email, as I came to him very eager to apologize for a crime I wasn't even sure I had committed.

After this exchange, I slowly began to be eradicated from the inner circle, which caused even more rumors about myself and my girlfriend. Mind you, at this point I was still putting in my best effort to be involved with the school by teaching and participating in TDS classes and had no plans of leaving the school. The final straw was when I went to visit the school while on tour with Swami Ken (who by the way, was NOT welcome or invited to visit TDS). When I confronted Ramose about why he wasn't allowed, Ramose agreed to meet him. The exchange was short lived, one on one, outside in the driveway while Swami (a seventy year old man who completed seven years of tapas) was still in the car. I felt like this was a total lack of respect for an elder regardless of "spiritual status".

After this encounter, I still carried on with TDS for roughly another year. I made excuses for myself as to why the things I felt weren't right were justifiable. Finally I came to a point where enough was enough and I made the decision for myself to be done with the drama that seemed to be following me with TDS. I have attached a Facebook conversation I had with Veos that demonstrates the non-welcoming attitude towards any other legitimate teachers and their clear participation in petty rumors.

I am sharing this very personal account not because I am unhappy with my own life or decisions, and not because I think TDS is evil. Rather I chose to share this because when a system is corrupt and broken, it is more harmful to remain silent for the sake of avoiding an uncomfortable situation than it is to speak the truth.

Cult personality building again. What does leapfrog mean Did the daskaloi take death oaths to learn from Ramose and he felt „betrayed” because this student went to Yogiraj without Ramose’s approval Need of control of private life and liberty is quite dangerous and not in the American spirit of liberty and democracy.

I'm am providing my own personal account of this type cult personality and brainwashing through a personal exchange with my "master" at the time. Judge for yourself.

A Daskalos is one of the nine students directly under Ramose and Veos. Most of them were/are teachers of the TDS classes.

I should have been more clear; all the students (including the Daskaloi) I mentioned who left did so because of problems they encountered in the school, meaning the abuses perpetrated by the Hierophants (some also left because of physical and mental/spiritual problems caused by the practices or remedies given). Now I readily admit that many students are fine with their behaviors, don't consider them to be abusive or immoral, and excuse (IMO) very questionable behaviors away as them doing what they have to do to complete their divine mission to save Western Spirituality (in addition to other reasons/excuses). But others aren't OK with how they treat their students and I wanted to make it known that those (former) students exist too.

I found TDS on this site several years ago, and then, like now, there were no reports of anyone close to the school or the Hierophants having any bad experiences with them. So I was not as aware as I should have been. Perhaps I would've still joined the school had I known, but I would've had my eyes open a little wider going in. Instead I thought they were divine masters, because that's what they claim to be once you're around them enough. They come here and claim they want you to question them and their students say that they're not masters or gurus, but once you visit enough and especially if you're a local student, they do claim to be masters in Henosis (beyond Gnosis/Enlightenment). They claim a lot of things about themselves. Because of these claims many questionable behaviors are justified or simply ignored. These behaviors unfortunately do trickle down to the rest of the school; many of these behaviors are seen in the closer students, and in the school culture as a whole. For instance, there is a lot of gossip and infighting amongst the closer students, and this isn't just political drama that would be exist in any organization; it's often begun by the Hierophants themselves.

I'm sure you'll get the other side of this story from some passionate TDS students (or Hierophants) soon enough.

One should strive for what is meant by this word called FREEDOM. Make it your daily mantra. Make it your livelihood.Strive for freedom from your own self, this self that is so full of anger, fear, hatred and pride, this ego-self that is making judgments on others as well as on yourself. Strive for freedom, but not the freedom with judgement connected to it.

There is such a freedom of being your own true Self, a Self that loves, and loves without 'a reason' to love. It is the highest form of all love. Be that one Self who does action without thinking about it, that one Self that has no words that can explain what that Self is, It just Is.

It is the Self without a second. This type of freedom does not come easy. You have to work for it. This is the freedom that all should work for. It should start when one knows that this freedom exists. Then, put some kind of effort towards it. By meditating, contemplating and living this freedom, your way to happiness is found.

I'm not referring to the good God/evil God type of dualism, I mean Creator/creation dualism.

In other words, is it within the realm of possibility that what one experiences in the the Step X merging with the one self/the universe is not the same as merging with God. Monism seems to make God and the Universe synonymous, where as I would say that when one experiences the universe as self, you're doing just that: merging with the Universe and nothing more.

I still believe that, as the Kybalion says, the universe is mental, I just don't believe that the reason it's mental is because it resides within the mind of God.

I'm saying, is it possible that everything in the Kybalion and the Bardon material is true regarding the laws and nature of the universe, that these effects are true but the causes are something other than what Monism postulates?

You can call it whatever you want, but you do not merge with anything; in your meditations you just fall away and realize that you've been it all along.

IMO Theurgy has suited me, and a great online class is offered at The Divine Science and its probationer class will be opening soon. I don't want to offend anyone by stating it is the greatest, but it is even more legit even compared to the open temporary Magical Orders of today.

Most of the knowledge you gain will really be about your own subconscious through meditation. If you dedicate yourself to practice you will begin to understand the reasons for which you do certain things. You will gain so much insight into yourself and then you can begin by analyzing the actual mechanism of the unconscious. Then through research you can connect the dots to the similarities found between your experience and research.

The fact that you are interested in, and have taken a step towards magic is a good sign. Before you begin looking at magic, really examine why it is you began to take an interest in the metaphysical, spiritual lifestyle. You, like most people, yet to no fault of your own, will bring all sorts of media portrayed, unrealistic fantasy idealism of magic here and expect these things and people to prove them to you. However, it is very important that you realize that most of what you think of magic is mostly fantasy. That is not to say that magic does not exist, it is more to say that it probably does not exist in the way you may perceive or want it to. To get a good idea of what its all about, a good place to start would be this article: http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,11158.0.html