There's a difference between sensationalism and feminism really. Don't expect a TV show to give you a very honest interpretation of views. Most of these shows are patterned off of the old male ones anyway. Trash talking will always sell. This is the same as talking about racism. Plenty of problems in society have been overblown so far that the sensationalists make them seem to have inverted. Sometimes it's hard to think there's a black person out there who isn't horribly racist. This is just your average high school cock walk. People who want attention will always take something to the extreme.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.

The Talk was my guilty pleasure, back in the day. I had to stomach a lot watching the show. It was every single day, not just that one episode. Subtle, not as extreme, in other episodes. I saw that episode and it's what made me notice that point of view coming out a lot.

You think that if they were going to have a show, with women, while trying to be positive for women, they would have gotten a full panel of intelligent, talented, insightful women with great view points. Instead they got the former high school "mean girls" section. I really don't think they meant to be that sexists, and insensitive, though, I just think it was a result of the structure and personalities of the show.

One of the things that really pissed me off was the way they treated Sara. She was definitely the smartest person in the room, but for some reason, they tended to always want to throw her under the bus and ignore, and discredit, a lot of what she had to say. Perfect example was in that clip: she attempted to stand up for what was right and they completely blew it off. I think they just did it for the snarky, gossip section, mean girl, attitude of the show and their personalities, but Sara wanted to try to bring a dynamic to the show that was always overshadowed. They would discredit her for being a vegetarian, for being gay, for being liberal, etc. very annoying.

As far as feminism goes, it is really very shitty, ignorant, "straw"/pseudo-feminists that ruin it for everyone. The ones that ignore evolution, psychology, want to do away with gender roles, are insensitive to guys feelings, pick on random things in society that aren't sexist, and exaggerated sexism, they kind of just need to be ignored.

Here is really good video:

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell

I don't like these issues. On one hand the woman is now so emancipated and strong and blah, but on the other hand men are those who are often being treated unfairly in the western world (not talking about Africa or so).

Example first hand:
I had a friend, and he had a girlfriend. Both got drunk, they started a fight, she beat him (she is twice his weight), he defended himself. They then made up (kinda like guys), then went to a hospital because both got hurt in the process. She did not file anything against him, he did not file anything against her. The police filed something against him, now he is not allowed to call her, mail her, text her, see her, anything, for TWO YEARS, his girlfriend. They both made up, they both did shit, but if he would approach her, even through a third person, he would go to jail!
That's justice isn't it...

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
- Wotsefack?! -

I can't stand the guy from the first video. He thinks he is funnier and more insightful than he really is. The fact is that he gets his talking points from other people, like the video directly below him.

I think I like Joy Behar and Whoopi (I say I think I like them because I have only seen snippets of them but I have like what I see), any time I have ever watched clips from the View, they seem to be the only ones I agree with and they often times are pretty funny and witty.

As for the reverse sexism, I don't feel like I have ever really been a victim of that. My profession is one dominated by males, yet both of the advisors I have had have been female and were damn good geologists, not damn good FEMALE geologists, I mean to leave out the female part intentionally because they could give any geologist a run for their money. I do however find it insulting when I see groups like one called WiSE (Women in Science and Engineering) and another for female geologists. I find them insulting to women, I should point out. Why single themselves out? I saw a talk at a seminar for WiSE here at SU and it was an awesome talk, for any scientist. So why single her out as a great female scientist when she is a great scientist first and foremost? In my graduating class at UTC there were 2 guys and 2 gals, and the female who finished as our top student is as brilliant as they come for any sex. I get the idea of having a collective of people with whom you can identify with and these groups do good things like providing funding for students or handing out awards and helping to mentor them, but by dividing them based on some category like sex, it seems insulting to me. I don't want to be a great male geologist or a great male teacher, I want to be a great geologist and teacher. I don't want to be a great white geologist or a great white teacher, I want to be a great geologist and teacher.

The video from the talk show the first guy is talking about is ultimately a bunch of people poking fun at a bad situation, and I highly doubt any of them really feel that way, but the point is taken that women seem to be more free to insult men rather than vice versa. But the same seems true for racial jokes too. It is deemed inappropriate for white comedians to poke fun based on race, but not so for the opposite situation. Here is the thing though, I don't take any of it seriously. When someone pokes fun at me for being fat, white, a guy, american, etc, I realize it is a joke and let it the fuck go. Now, someone discriminating against me for any of the above categories would be different, but I have never experienced that.

It is also worth pointing out that while we live in countries that are largely equal with respect to women's and men's rights, I don't have to fear where I travel to based on my sex (I might for other reasons). I know geologists who happen to be female that were unable to travel with their male counterparts to areas in the Middle East because of their sex. They would have been unable to do anything or give orders to the locals whom were hired to help because of the intense sexism there. They would have been threatened because of the way they dressed. So, while sexism does exist, I don't feel like men really suffer because of it but some women do (I did say "some women"). Even Bill Maher is poking fun at "suffering" men by poking fun at the men, and not really poking fun at the women.

All in all, I do agree that sexism sucks and that we should live in a time where it is a relic of the past, but we don't. The fact remains that women are out-earned by men in nearly every field were they compete, and not because men are superior in those roles. It is also worth noting that while women outnumber men in undergraduate institutions, men far outnumber women in graduate school (especially in the sciences and engineering). Although no clear link has ever been established for why this is so, a good deal of it appears to be the result of pressure from society for women to marry and have kids. Women who don't are often questioned as to why, but men aren't.

Definitely Beardy, I really can't stand how hard people push groups. It's so much more worthwhile to be outstanding in a field than to be outstanding in a small sub form of the field. I understand that the under noticed groups can sometimes have a hard time breaking in to the big leagues but all that making their own sub forums creates is the ability to try less. Plenty of women have rose up to prove the ability to compete in all sorts of fields evenly and time to time above men, when they start seperating it into men/women camps they lose so much ground in that race to be the best. All the female groups in everything have to a certain extent allowed women to get to the right place easier and slack off some. I do understand the good that these groups do, but at the same time they really push a seperation in things that have no need for it.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.

(09-07-2012 12:54 PM)Smooshmonster Wrote: Actually Truly, I'd like to do away with gender roles. They're only there because society has enforced them on us. Which gender roles are you intent on keeping?

That is not at all true. The majority of labels and "gender roles" that are assigned to each gender is because of the way we have evolved biologically.

(09-07-2012 12:54 PM)Smooshmonster Wrote: Actually Truly, I'd like to do away with gender roles. They're only there because society has enforced them on us. Which gender roles are you intent on keeping?

That is not at all true. The majority of labels and "gender roles" that are assigned to each gender is because of the way we have evolved biologically.

^ That pretty much explains it.

I'm not talking about all women having to be house wives, exclusive stay at home mothers, not playing sports, not being intellectuals, not becoming scientist and engineers, etc., or them not doing anything guys traditionally have done, while only doing what women have done traditionally.

I'm talking when feminist see some kind of problematic, degrading inequality in something as simple as little boys playing with Transformer action figures and little girls playing with Barbies. When they act like somehow there is a problem with the gender roles themselves, when the real problem is limiting either sex to only that specific role.

I guess I'll just post a video. The women's response to Hitch sums it up nicely.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell

(09-07-2012 03:18 PM)TrulyX Wrote: I'm talking when feminist see some kind of problematic, degrading inequality in something as simple as little boys playing with Transformer action figures and little girls playing with Barbies. When they act like somehow there is a problem with the gender roles themselves, when the real problem is limiting either sex to only that specific role.

That's not the problem though. The problem isn't that little boys play with transformers and little girls play with dolls. It's that little girls who don't play with dolls are somehow considered less "girls", and are called tomboys, and little boys who do play with dolls are called girls, and seen as not normal.
These are "gender roles" I'd gladly live without. Why not just let kids play with what they want, and gradually they will find what they like. To say girls have biologically evolved to play with dolls just seems... well I'd like to see some kind of justification for that claim before I dismiss it out of hand. Kids emulate their parents. Little girls see their mother with a baby and want to be like her, so they play with dolls. My little brother, who had no male adult in the house to emulate, played with dolls because that's what he saw around him. Gender roles are social constructs.