Are there to be tickets for any of the CORE projects, like those that attended last year?Those were wonderful, and a great way for BRC to show how it's all over the World!There are rumors that the CORE projects are to be passed over in the MAR ticket distribution.

Another voice for the "vagueness" of criteria. It's "art". It's intuitive. It's from the side of the brain that doesn't color inside the lines.PlusNo one wants to spend the entire event, or even an hour of it, sitting by the entrance to the camp with a clicker counting how many people visit it. And then try and figure out how much fun they had doing it.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Flagstaff Bill wrote:Are there to be tickets for any of the CORE projects, like those that attended last year?Those were wonderful, and a great way for BRC to show how it's all over the World!There are rumors that the CORE projects are to be passed over in the MAR ticket distribution.

Perhaps you are supposed to finance it, build it, and ship it without ever watching it burn. That may be considered beneficial enough to the community that you'll meet the criteria for next year. But we don't know. Because art is supposed to be subjective. heh.

Just try harder and hope more without any substantial evidence that it's valued or seen by decision makers, and perhaps the arbitrary hand of the "process" will grant you a ticket.

mshaman wrote:Just try harder and hope more without any substantial evidence that it's valued or seen by decision makers, and perhaps the arbitrary hand of the "process" will grant you a ticket.

mshaman, all your posts lately make it seem like you're already tossing in the towel and saying "fukkit, I can't win". Honestly, it makes me wonder if you believe in your camp enough to think it deserves to get tickets from the Org. If you can't convince yourself you're never going to convince them.

eric, thank you for re-iterating what has seemed to be the obvious, but most overlooked.

it's early, don't give up before you even try, that is not gonna fly out on the real playa where this year especially with the plague of locusts and the killer dust tornadoes that you have your shit together and not just dial it in...

i know, it's a pain in the ass....so is waiting on line to get ice, but you know what, that can be kinda fun too if you make it so.

pretty much every year its an adventure just getting there, this year is no different.

you may not have your ticket yet, but please, feel free to start enjoying the ride anyway.

someday, probably not too far off from now, this will seem quite petty and small and funny in a "what the fuck did we get so worked up about, i could have saved a fortune on prilosec" kinda way....thats not to say that everything is fucking wonderful, it's not, but then again, life is the same way, why should the burn be any different....good days, bad days, sometimes a little of both.

mshaman wrote:Just try harder and hope more without any substantial evidence that it's valued or seen by decision makers, and perhaps the arbitrary hand of the "process" will grant you a ticket.

mshaman, all your posts lately make it seem like you're already tossing in the towel and saying "fukkit, I can't win". Honestly, it makes me wonder if you believe in your camp enough to think it deserves to get tickets from the Org. If you can't convince yourself you're never going to convince them.

Eric, With regard to tickets, you're right. I can't win. The lottery was a debacle and the remaining 10,000 tickets were taken out of circulation and given to someone, but we're afraid to say who, or even how, with any precision. So the 10 tickets we have for our camp of 36 is the 10 tickets we get. We might get some in late August when some newbies realize they're in over their heads and decide not to go. But we're supposed to use STEP and can only have one. The other 26 aren't supposed to make plans until then. And maybe help with the art car that they can't ride on. Seriously? What kills me is that all of these problems were predictable results of this poor implementation.

I was okay with them giving the tickets to theme camps and art collectives, but again, the implementation is looking worse and worse to me, because I can't seem to find a lot in terms of transparency or accountability here. The more I discover, the more it appears to be only marginally less short-sighted than what preceded it. Is BMOrg actually trying to get people from all over the world to finance, construct, and transport effigies, without letting them buy a ticket? Seriously? How many times must we see that good policy promotes good behavior (building effigies, for example) and bad policy promotes bad behavior (showing up with nothing but some drugs)? Not making tickets available to CORE builders, if that's actually the case, IS BAD POLICY.

I'm not saying I've given up on my camp, I'm saying I've given up on the judgement of the BMOrg.

How can we have faith that there is anything at work here but nepotism if we don't know who gets chosen, how, or why? We have what we're told, but at this point the credibility of the Org's decisions is so weak that I can no longer take it on faith. I'm not trying to vilify people who are doing their best, I'm trying to say "get real, trained, executive strategists to help you because the last three rounds of terrible policy have demonstrated that you're out of your depth". Good intentions are no longer enough.

I'm also saying the expectation that people are supposed to want to do things like CORE without even being able to get a ticket is ludicrous. I am underscoring the inefficacy of this process, its band-aids, and its authors. If I can draw enough attention to the failings and the capriciousness of the process, perhaps it can be addressed so that 2013 can be a good year to burn. For small infrastructure and service providers, 2012 is simply a year to survive so that you can get to the good part again. I'll have fun at the burn, but not because I was providing everything we had planned for the playa.

Oh, and rather than just showing up and helping out, make sure your campers get it credentialed by asking for placement/registering/formalizing everything it does, so that next year, you have more "points of contact". Want to volunteer at a bike repair camp? Well, you're better off putting it in your theme camp plan and doing it there, because it improves your group's chances of getting a ticket. More points of contact. Whether we like it or not, that's the kind of thinking the latest policy will promote.

It will be easier to forgive decision-makers if we see a rational process for 2013. It's too late for 2012, in terms of ticket process.

Yes, I read your whole post, I just didn't need to quote it all because this sums it up. You've given up without even trying, and as much as you want to blame the Org, you can't. If you're not willing to put the effort in to make your camp look good why should they consider you? I sure as hell wouldn't.

As much as you want to justify your reasoning by screaming "the system is unfair" because it doesn't tell you exactly how to sell yourself, it's not. If it gave you that information then every single camp would be saying the same thing. How would you stand out then? It truly would be just based on who knows whom.

I'm not arguing with you on this, there's no point. You've already decided you can't win and that ensures you won't win. The tickets will go to camps that are willing to put some effort into it, not ones who complain that they have to.

BTW: you apparently haven't read the latest on STEP: the Org is listening, if you entered for two tickets in the Main Drawing you can enter for two in STEP.

Yes, I read your whole post, I just didn't need to quote it all because this sums it up. You've given up without even trying, and as much as you want to blame the Org, you can't. If you're not willing to put the effort in to make your camp look good why should they consider you? I sure as hell wouldn't.

As much as you want to justify your reasoning by screaming "the system is unfair" because it doesn't tell you exactly how to sell yourself, it's not. If it gave you that information then every single camp would be saying the same thing. How would you stand out then? It truly would be just based on who knows whom.

I'm not arguing with you on this, there's no point. You've already decided you can't win and that ensures you won't win. The tickets will go to camps that are willing to put some effort into it, not ones who complain that they have to.

BTW: you apparently haven't read the latest on STEP: the Org is listening, if you entered for two tickets in the Main Drawing you can enter for two in STEP.

Eric, I think you are taking the quote out of context, because I made it explicitly clear that I haven't given up on my camp, and I think you've stepped outside your role as a mod and into the role of board participant.

That said, thanks for the link, haven't seen the latest STEP developments.

Switching away from the 1-ticket rule does draw attention to the elephant in the room: There are better policy development methodologies than putting something out there and waiting for public outcry to figure out which parts need improvement. There are experts in that field. Just call a major non-profit and get the names of their headhunters. There are plenty of qualified candidates in this job market.

mshaman wrote:...I think you've stepped outside your role as a mod and into the role of board participant.

Hey! Eric's been a participant on this board for years and a mod for less than 6 months. It's a two-hat deal, here, anyway. He gets to have opinion and he gets to express them. He may not get to express them as I might, but if circumstances are such, he can throw down some snark. He's not paid, he's not getting a ticket, and he spends a lot of hours making this board better by spam-whacking. I guess his fellow mods give him a heads up when there are changes--which could be why he knew about two step tickets--but there seems to be no ohter benefits. He is allowed to have opinions, make observations, and otherwise be a participant, despite his being a mod as well.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

mshaman wrote:...I think you've stepped outside your role as a mod and into the role of board participant.

Hey! Eric's been a participant on this board for years and a mod for less than 6 months. It's a two-hat deal, here, anyway. He gets to have opinion and he gets to express them. He may not get to express them as I might, but if circumstances are such, he can throw down some snark. He's not paid, he's not getting a ticket, and he spends a lot of hours making this board better by spam-whacking. I guess his fellow mods give him a heads up when there are changes--which could be why he knew about two step tickets--but there seems to be no ohter benefits. He is allowed to have opinions, make observations, and otherwise be a participant, despite his being a mod as well.

well said fishy! nor only allowed but expected to have opinions, I dont think Eric was made a mod for his shy personality

FREE THE SHERPASBurners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.CATCH AND RELEASE.

This board would be pretty useless if the mods were not active members of our community.

Savannah: I don't know what it is, but no thread here escapes alive. You'll get 1 or 2 real answers at minimum, occasionally 10 or 12, and then we flog it until it's unrecognizable and you can't get your deposit back.

mshaman wrote:Eric, I think you are taking the quote out of context, because I made it explicitly clear that I haven't given up on my camp, and I think you've stepped outside your role as a mod and into the role of board participant.

You might think you have, but it's obviously not clear enough for at least some others to see it- myself included. My posts are attempting to get you to see how your posts are coming across, and while you may not have given up on your camp you certainly have come across as giving up on the process of possibly getting allotted tickets. I don't think that's a good thing, and if I can get you to look critically at what your posts appear to be saying maybe you'll see that as well.

As for the mod/participant issue- all the mods on this board are volunteers and we're all still participants (just like a volunteer in Media Mecca is still a participant in Burning Man), we're all still allowed to hold opinions.

Well to shed a bit of light on the subject our camp was contacted,by phone, today and told we would qualify for tickets.How many was not revealed.We were asked to provide "drivers license"names for our core members,their email address,playa name and if they had won any tickets in the lottery.This info will be sent to placement and then it will be determined how many tickets we will be allowed to buy.We registered a couple of days after rego opened.Obviously pleased and phone call,first we have ever received from The Project, was very cordial considering the pressure Placement must be under.

Well it's not something I want to do on an overseas phone.............................Omar Suarez

marcgorcey wrote:zorro - This is making me wonder if there's a first come first served policy that hasn't been published ?

Our registered camp will be submitting later and now I'm concerned.

Don't overthink.

Get your application together, make it as thorough as possible, make your case not just for placement, but why your camp is special. Remember, the Org decided some of the recipients in advance- but didn't tell those camps. They won't find out until their application is submitted.

You may have already "won", but on the downside don't forget only about 50% of camps that submit are going to get any tickets. It's a "take deep breaths" process.

trilobyte wrote:@mshaman - you would be mistaken in jumping to the conclusion that moderators are not allowed to also be participants. It is both allowed and encouraged.

Right, but you have the good sense to distinguish when you are wearing your Mod hat and acting as a representative of the board, and when you are personally getting into the fray. I've watched you do it repeatedly, and it's a good thing. This is a standard that moderators on most boards could aspire to.

Cut Eric and the other mods some slack.Without them the eplaya would not be here.For this I thank you.Which bring up something I want say.I owe the mods a apology for my anger for the past 3 weeks.You all have taken a lot of crap from angry burners and did not tell anyone to fuck off.But i know you wanted too.

The real rub on the 10,000 tickets going to the Too Big To Fail Theme Camps is it tells the rest of us we are not good enough to get a ticket.Most of the burners I have met are not the fit in type of people.They have been rejected in the default world all their life but they did have one place they could be who they are and be accepted.This was the one city they fit in.That was the old Black Rock City.Meet the New Black Rock City in which we have a new caste system in that it values some burners more than others.So please do publish who did get the tickets.

An unintelligible passionate yearning drove them out into the desert T.E. Lawrence

1. Can we all PLEASE remember that this is only a fix for this year, 2012. The BMORG and the community need to work together to design a system for next year (2013) that we can all buy-in to. Distributing the 10,000 tickets to the core projects is NOT setting a precedent for next year.

2. Disclosing who got the 10,000 tickets will just promote yet more bitterness and shit-storms, tearing the community apart. The BMORG should NOT and will not disclose that information.

3. What part of "THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH TICKETS FOR EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO GO" do you not understand?? The scale of this over-demand took all of us and the BMORG by surprise. The BMORG are doing all they can to salvage a shit situation, and IMHO they have taken all the right decisions (except for the one-two STEP issue which they have now reversed).

4. There are going to be more "difficult" decisions for the BMORG in the months ahead. Personally, I am going to be as constructive and helpful as possible. For example, I think the BMORG are going to have to move to a "names on tickets" system. They are not ready to do this yet. I know they are thinking through all the pros and cons and listening to the community. I doubt they will do this for 2012 (I think it's too late for the 40,000), but I hope they adopt it for 2013. That's just one example - there are other tough decisions to be made I'm sure.

socks wrote:Cut Eric and the other mods some slack.Without them the eplaya would not be here.For this I thank you.Which bring up something I want say.I owe the mods a apology for my anger for the past 3 weeks.You all have taken a lot of crap from angry burners and did not tell anyone to fuck off.But i know you wanted too.

The real rub on the 10,000 tickets going to the Too Big To Fail Theme Camps is it tells the rest of us we are not good enough to get a ticket.Most of the burners I have met are not the fit in type of people.They have been rejected in the default world all their life but they did have one place they could be who they are and be accepted.This was the one city they fit in.That was the old Black Rock City.Meet the New Black Rock City in which we have a new caste system in that it values some burners more than others.So please do publish who did get the tickets.

funkyjigsaw wrote:... Can we all PLEASE remember that this is only a fix for this year, 2012...

+1000

Unfortunately necessary evil, or, best way to stand when you're between a rock and a hard place.

Highway to Hell. Stairway to Heaven.Traffic prediction?.Odd. No bears in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries..... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

1. Can we all PLEASE remember that this is only a fix for this year, 2012. The BMORG and the community need to work together to design a system for next year (2013) that we can all buy-in to. Distributing the 10,000 tickets to the core projects is NOT setting a precedent for next year.

2. Disclosing who got the 10,000 tickets will just promote yet more bitterness and shit-storms, tearing the community apart. The BMORG should NOT and will not disclose that information.

3. What part of "THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH TICKETS FOR EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO GO" do you not understand?? The scale of this over-demand took all of us and the BMORG by surprise. The BMORG are doing all they can to salvage a shit situation, and IMHO they have taken all the right decisions (except for the one-two STEP issue which they have now reversed).

4. There are going to be more "difficult" decisions for the BMORG in the months ahead. Personally, I am going to be as constructive and helpful as possible. For example, I think the BMORG are going to have to move to a "names on tickets" system. They are not ready to do this yet. I know they are thinking through all the pros and cons and listening to the community. I doubt they will do this for 2012 (I think it's too late for the 40,000), but I hope they adopt it for 2013. That's just one example - there are other tough decisions to be made I'm sure.