Mimic_Octopus:Jon iz teh kewl: Walker: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: badhatharry: This steps on private property rights. You have the right to prohibit guns on your own property. By a variety of regulations, business owners no longer own their own property.

Do I not have private property rights of of own in my vehicle?

Haha you're funny. You realize that in some places in America (usually places in nutty California) it's illegal to smoke in your own car or even your own home.

why would you want to. when you can eat marijuana jolly ranchers

yes, because regular people want to be high all farking day. smoking wears off after a normal time, eating is a dang commitment.

well some of US DONT HAVE THE ABILITY TO FIND A GIRLFRIENDSO WE JUST GET HIGH ALL THE TIME.

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion:badhatharry: This steps on private property rights. You have the right to prohibit guns on your own property. By a variety of regulations, business owners no longer own their own property.

Do I not have private property rights of of own in my vehicle?

Not if you don't own the ground it's on. Your vehicle is not a rights bubble.

Walker:Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: badhatharry: This steps on private property rights. You have the right to prohibit guns on your own property. By a variety of regulations, business owners no longer own their own property.

Do I not have private property rights of of own in my vehicle?

Haha you're funny. You realize that in some places in America (usually places in nutty California) it's illegal to smoke in your own car or even your own home.

Yes, it's child abuse to smoke with a child in the car. Deal with it.

I don't know about homes, but it can be illegal in apartments with shared ventilation. Your right to smoke does not supersede your neighbor's right to clean air in his apartment.

No one cares that you smoke. We're all happy that you'll die faster. If you can separate the act of smoking from the dispersal of your smoke into other people's space, go have a ball. Get an e-cig, chew some Copenhagen, whatever.

hardinparamedic:edmo: Well, gee I did just that and other than "guns-in-trunks" being in the text four times, there's still no discussion of what part trunks play in this. Perhaps you have special reading powers the rest of us don't?

Before the law was passed, any Tennessee employer could fire an employee if they found out they kept a firearm, legally, secured in a vehicle on their premises, regardless if it met the criteria of a "Gun Free Zone" according to federal law.

This law only eliminated criminal penalties for bringing a gun onto private property without permission to do so. It does not confer a right to do so.

Nina_Hartley's_Ass:The measure removes criminal penalties for bringing a gun onto private property, but it is unclear whether businesses could continue to set policies banning firearms.

The bill's House sponsor, state Rep. Jeremy Faison, R-Cosby, said nothing in the measure prevents business owners from firing employees who bring guns to work. But Ramsey, the measure's sponsor in the Senate, has cited other Tennessee laws that suggest the opposite.

It also is unclear whether schools and universities could ban firearms.

Sounds like a subsidy for TN lawyers.

A fact I am sure has the sharks-in-suits sharpening their rows of teeth and sniffing for blood in the water.

/lawyers, best used as a punchline in sick jokes//have lots of family/friends that are lawyers, love 'em but they still get the bottom-feeder tag from me

badhatharry:The business owner could put up a sign,"No guns allowed on the property." I don't think it should be a criminal offense. Maybe trespassing if you refuse to leave after being asked.

That's how it normaly works. I can't speak for everyone, but in VA if the store has a sign or the person in charge actualy tells you 'no guns' you have to remove it or you can be charged with trespassing, as you (while having a gun) are somewhere they don't want you to be.

I've said 'fark it' to some of those signs before, such as going to toys r us to pick up a birthday present. I just made sure it was well concealed (and that there were no fleeing shoplifter's cars to mark for the police). Now I'll damn sure respect the post office and courthouse 'no guns' law.

CSB:In VA (and everywhere as far as I know) there is no law against bringing a gun into a bank. (as long as they don't have a sign of course).When I banked with Wachovia, they had such a sign on their doors. When Wells Fargo bought them out, they actualy took the sign down. So I figured they were cool with it. (Especially since the stagecoach guy in their farking logo is holding a rifle!). I had been carrying concealed there for the past year or so. One day the gun was digging into my side while I was driving, and I tucked my shirt between the slide and my skin for padding. I forgot to cover it back up before I went inside, so it was visiable (in a waistband holster, not tucked in 'gansta style')

So I am filling out a deposit slip on that little counter when the bank manager slowly approaches me like I am an escaped tiger."Sir, are you law enforcement?"Um.....no."You are *not* allowed to have a gun in here."Huh? Oh, sorry, didn't realise it was showing. *covers gun back up**hands cashier check and deposit slip*"Sir you will need to take that outside"Okay sure. But you know you guys don't have a sign on the door, right?*now snotty* "Sir, we arn't required to have a sign on the door"You're absolutely right. You don't have to have one. All you need to do is state your gun policy, and a person has to comply.(She seems to calm down a little, yet seems taken aback that I am being polite and agreeable.)"Sir you can finish you transaction once you take your gun to the car"Okay, no problem. Can I swipe my ATM card so the teller can verify my account first?"Uh, sure go ahead"Now let me ask you this, how is a person supposed to know you don't allow guns if you don't have a sign?"I, uh.."When you guys bought Wachovia, you took the sign down. That tells me that you don't mind. Also I've been coming in here every month like this for the past year. And lastly, the only people that sign affects are the people who won't do anything with the guns anyway."Well, uh, I'll talk with corporate and see about getting some signs made up (this was six months ago, they still haven't)"It would definitely make things more clear. Oh hey look, my transaction is done. I guess I'll be seeing you guys.

Benjamin Orr:So people with carry permits can keep their handguns locked up in the car while they go into work or the mall or to eat. No big deal.

Once they have the ability to search my car they can start discussing what I can and cannot keep inside it.

And here's why this law is reasonable. This doesn't allow people to actually carry guns on their person, or even use them at all in places that prohibit them. All this does is make it so that if your gun is kept unloaded and stored and out of sight where it is not a danger to anyone, you can't be penalized.

A better measure is this: how would NOT passing this law protect anyone? Shooting up a store is already illegal, even keeping the gun in the trunk if it's loaded is illegal. If gun violence is going to happen at a location, criminalizing the transport of the weapon won't deter that. The only thing it will catch is non-violent citizens who decided to leave their weapon safely in their vehicle.

badhatharry:DarkVader: badhatharry: This steps on private property rights. You have the right to prohibit guns on your own property. By a variety of regulations, business owners no longer own their own property.

The business owner has a choice to not allow my private property on his, but if he allows it, he doesn't get any say over what it contains. And that's a completely fair way of doing things.

The business owner could put up a sign,"No guns allowed on the property." I don't think it should be a criminal offense. Maybe trespassing if you refuse to leave after being asked.

Yes, this as well. Businesses still have the right to refuse service to anyone, and if they insist on being dicks they can enforce a defacto gun ban anyway. This just stops them from being able to sue/prosecute/etc. if they somehow find out you had a gun in your car. Y'know, where they aren't supposed to be able to search anyway, because it's your damn property.

Kentucky state law already explicitly prohibits business owners and employers from prohibiting firearms being secured inside of the vehicles of concealed weapons permit holders. A state supreme court ruling recently stated that this law applies to universities, and that a University of Kentucky employee was wrongfully terminated for keeping a firearm secured within his vehicle.

I am still waiting for the surge in incidents of violent crime resulting from that court ruling.

Think of it this way, would you leave your wallet (or purse) in the car, or your cell phone?

I'm guessing no. It would be stupid, because cars are broken into every minute. The gun wont be doing the gun owner any good. It wont be protection. The gun will be unattended, in a trunk, just waiting for someone to take it.

Doesn't anyone read the police blotter any more? What is the most common item stolen in a home burglary? Criminals cant buy guns, so they steal them, or buy them from someone who stole them. Now, they will be sitting in car trucks, unattended.

BrotherEarth:Think of it this way, would you leave your wallet (or purse) in the car, or your cell phone?

I'm guessing no. It would be stupid, because cars are broken into every minute. The gun wont be doing the gun owner any good. It wont be protection. The gun will be unattended, in a trunk, just waiting for someone to take it.

Doesn't anyone read the police blotter any more? What is the most common item stolen in a home burglary? Criminals cant buy guns, so they steal them, or buy them from someone who stole them. Now, they will be sitting in car trucks, unattended.

Benjamin Orr:BrotherEarth: Think of it this way, would you leave your wallet (or purse) in the car, or your cell phone?

I'm guessing no. It would be stupid, because cars are broken into every minute. The gun wont be doing the gun owner any good. It wont be protection. The gun will be unattended, in a trunk, just waiting for someone to take it.

Doesn't anyone read the police blotter any more? What is the most common item stolen in a home burglary? Criminals cant buy guns, so they steal them, or buy them from someone who stole them. Now, they will be sitting in car trucks, unattended.

Only an idiot would leave a gun unattended.

So force all private business to allow concealed carry?

Yes, I'm not really seeing what your argument is here, Earth.

Also...

Wallets, purses, and cell phones are things which never leave your person as a general rule, because you need and use them too frequently to be without them. A more apt comparison would be "would you leave your power tools in your locked car unattended." You don't really need to take your Dremel into the grocery store with you, and if you happen to have it with you, why yes you would leave them in your locked car while you shopped at most places.

BrotherEarth:Think of it this way, would you leave your wallet (or purse) in the car, or your cell phone?

I'm guessing no. It would be stupid, because cars are broken into every minute. The gun wont be doing the gun owner any good. It wont be protection. The gun will be unattended, in a trunk, just waiting for someone to take it.

Doesn't anyone read the police blotter any more? What is the most common item stolen in a home burglary? Criminals cant buy guns, so they steal them, or buy them from someone who stole them. Now, they will be sitting in car trucks, unattended.

Only an idiot would leave a gun unattended.

My car truck has locking padlocks on all the door windows, so the thief burglars won't be able to get my gun rifles.

Zavulon:BrotherEarth: Think of it this way, would you leave your wallet (or purse) in the car, or your cell phone?

I'm guessing no. It would be stupid, because cars are broken into every minute. The gun wont be doing the gun owner any good. It wont be protection. The gun will be unattended, in a trunk, just waiting for someone to take it.

Doesn't anyone read the police blotter any more? What is the most common item stolen in a home burglary? Criminals cant buy guns, so they steal them, or buy them from someone who stole them. Now, they will be sitting in car trucks, unattended.

Only an idiot would leave a gun unattended.

My car truck has locking padlocks on all the door windows, so the thief burglars won't be able to get my gun rifles.

...when I go into the shopping store where the checkout cashiers will sell me things at me.

yukichigai:badhatharry: DarkVader: badhatharry: This steps on private property rights. You have the right to prohibit guns on your own property. By a variety of regulations, business owners no longer own their own property.

The business owner has a choice to not allow my private property on his, but if he allows it, he doesn't get any say over what it contains. And that's a completely fair way of doing things.

The business owner could put up a sign,"No guns allowed on the property." I don't think it should be a criminal offense. Maybe trespassing if you refuse to leave after being asked.

Yes, this as well. Businesses still have the right to refuse service to anyone, and if they insist on being dicks they can enforce a defacto gun ban anyway. This just stops them from being able to sue/prosecute/etc. if they somehow find out you had a gun in your car. Y'know, where they aren't supposed to be able to search anyway, because it's your damn property.

This law only removes criminal penalties and indemnifies employers and business owners from liability for anything that happens as a result of someone having a gun in his car.

Maybe the right to search your car is in your employment contract, or it's a condition of admittance to my property. Either is legal unless there's a law forbidding it.

If the mere presence of your gun causes me damages, I can sue you or fire you.

Benjamin Orr:BrotherEarth: Think of it this way, would you leave your wallet (or purse) in the car, or your cell phone?

I'm guessing no. It would be stupid, because cars are broken into every minute. The gun wont be doing the gun owner any good. It wont be protection. The gun will be unattended, in a trunk, just waiting for someone to take it.

Doesn't anyone read the police blotter any more? What is the most common item stolen in a home burglary? Criminals cant buy guns, so they steal them, or buy them from someone who stole them. Now, they will be sitting in car trucks, unattended.

Only an idiot would leave a gun unattended.

So force all private business to allow concealed carry?

First, I want to mention that the Tennessee state legislature knows that this law will lead to guns being stolen from cars. They even put a specific liability exemption into the law for owners whose guns are stolen.

My guess would be that your question would be the logical next step. Remember, this is Tennessee we are discussing. There is (apparently) no right that trumps gun rights in Tennessee.

BrotherEarth:Benjamin Orr: BrotherEarth: Think of it this way, would you leave your wallet (or purse) in the car, or your cell phone?

I'm guessing no. It would be stupid, because cars are broken into every minute. The gun wont be doing the gun owner any good. It wont be protection. The gun will be unattended, in a trunk, just waiting for someone to take it.

Doesn't anyone read the police blotter any more? What is the most common item stolen in a home burglary? Criminals cant buy guns, so they steal them, or buy them from someone who stole them. Now, they will be sitting in car trucks, unattended.

Only an idiot would leave a gun unattended.

So force all private business to allow concealed carry?

First, I want to mention that the Tennessee state legislature knows that this law will lead to guns being stolen from cars. They even put a specific liability exemption into the law for owners whose guns are stolen.

My guess would be that your question would be the logical next step. Remember, this is Tennessee we are discussing. There is (apparently) no right that trumps gun rights in Tennessee.

This might come as a shock to you... But guns are already being stolen from cars and people are already carrying guns in malls and restaurants.

And I am sure you an expert on Tennessee and know all about the state.

BrotherEarth:First, I want to mention that the Tennessee state legislature knows that this law will lead to guns being stolen from cars. They even put a specific liability exemption into the law for owners whose guns are stolen.

Uh, really? "The bill also includes a provision meant to keep businesses from being sued in the event of a workplace shooting or if the weapon is stolen."

BarkingUnicorn:BrotherEarth: First, I want to mention that the Tennessee state legislature knows that this law will lead to guns being stolen from cars. They even put a specific liability exemption into the law for owners whose guns are stolen.

Uh, really? "The bill also includes a provision meant to keep businesses from being sued in the event of a workplace shooting or if the weapon is stolen."

Doesn't seem to exempt gun owners from liability.

You are correct, my information was wrong. It took me a while to find the exact text of House Bill 118.

Benjamin Orr:And I am sure you an expert on Tennessee and know all about the state.

Well, I wouldn't say expert, but do live in Tennessee. So, nothing surprises me about Tennessee and guns. I don't share the caviler attitude, or misconceptions about gun ownership equals safety. But, there are too few hours in the day to worry about gun owners putting their family and friends at risk.