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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Originally posted by xyz2004slc:Even if you don't agree with my above stated opinion, please stop with the direct, personal insults at Lang Lang and at people who do not share your opinion. He can do whatever hand gestures he wants. We are all musicians. Beethoven once said that musicians were superior to others. Do personal insults demonstrate our civility, not to mention superiority? I agree that we should continue to critique our fellow artists, however we should do it constructively. "Horrible" and "butchering" are not words that I call constructive (tell me if I am off base here). What do you think he did wrong specifically? The answers to that question will help us better our own playing ability. Causing an altercation on PW is beneficial to noone. PLEASE stop with the personal insults. He is human and he is only 23, and if I were him, I would be extremely hurt given the responses of some posters here. We all develop in different ways.

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You can be constructive, but you cannot be insulting. [/b]

Thank you.

I got some pretty nasty comments on my thread when I posted my own recordings. "Hilariously bad." "Helfgott at Cziffra speed." ... What point do they serve?

I also got some very, very good comments. I'm not referring to the people who thought my recordings were amazing (though I like those!), but I'm referring to the ones that gave me advice. That told me specifically some ideas that I might work on, what my strengths and weaknesses appear to be, and how I might program recitals a little differently in the future. These are the comments that are really appreciated and beneficial - not the pointless insults.

Originally posted by God knows who - I seemed to have deleted his name

Very insightful. Aside from the fact that you took that quote completely out of context, I believe the point I was implicitly trying to make is that people are being unfairly convinced to hate Lang. That is, more people with the gung-ho "Down with Lang" mantra seem to be popping up, and something tells me they're not thinking for themselevs. [/QB]

DID IT EVER occur to you that quite possibly that people are thinking for themselves, I mean I know I am, and maybe have you considered the possibility that Lang Lang SUCKS SO MUCH????

Don't lecture us on how we seem to be monotonous, morons who can't seem to form our own opinions. You may like him and good for you, but don't bash anyone for their opinion, and certainly do NOT tell us we're wrong if most of the majority agrees with our opinion.

Im going to echo xyz and jerome's post about constructive criticism. No name calling is neccessary and the name calling goes nowhere. The extremity of "butchering" sounds like its coming from a reowned piano critic as if you've written the piece yourself, but you didnt. Worse of all, the worse criticism is from that HR performance on a jay leno show... I fail to understand why you would criticize on that account. If he was playing the very same piece in a concert setting, then i would understand a fair amount of criticism. But on a TV show and judge it with name-calling, proclaming it's unforgivable just makes you look immature.

I'll admit to being somewhat baffled by the whole LL controversy. I love piano as much as anyone here, and have listened to as much piano music as anyone else, but I fail to see why LL is the cause of so much passion. Are pianists fearful that he has taken one of the few concert pianist slots, the one that was reserved for them? If you think that's the case, the business doesn't work that way. If you're good enough and persistent enough and lucky enough and well-connected enough, you'll get a shot at a career. Stop worrying about what LL does or doesn't do. I know you didn't vote for him, and you can't impeach him - at least I don't think you can. Enjoy his playing or don't, keep up with his career or don't, tell all your friends to love him or hate him or don't.

Originally posted by Deus ex Pianoforte: This ****'s been said over and over and over and over and over again, Steinway. Don't start fights. Accept that you like Lang Lang and I don't. Opinions are what makes an individual. [/b]

Don't point at me. If people are too immature to handle a topic without screaming and yelling and cursing, that's not my fault.

"Worse of all, the worse criticism is from that HR performance on a jay leno show... I fail to understand why you would criticize on that account. If he was playing the very same piece in a concert setting, then i would understand a fair amount of criticism. But on a TV show and judge it with name-calling, proclaming it's unforgivable just makes you look immature."

I don't get it; why should a performance be judged differently based on its location? The music doesn't change from one place to another, except insofar as acoustical considerations must be taken into account (as regards tempo, pedaling, etc.). A performance is a performance, and I think that one should always be striving to put his best foot forward, whether it's at Carnegie Hall or in a retirement community in rural Nebraska. Gosh, I really wish I'd heard this Leno performance so I could know what all the hoo-hah is about...Maybe it'll be re-aired some time.

Originally posted by God knows who - I seemed to have deleted his name

Very insightful. Aside from the fact that you took that quote completely out of context, I believe the point I was implicitly trying to make is that people are being unfairly convinced to hate Lang. That is, more people with the gung-ho "Down with Lang" mantra seem to be popping up, and something tells me they're not thinking for themselevs. [/b]

DID IT EVER occur to you that quite possibly that people are thinking for themselves, I mean I know I am, and maybe have you considered the possibility that Lang Lang SUCKS SO MUCH????

Don't lecture us on how we seem to be monotonous, morons who can't seem to form our own opinions. You may like him and good for you, but don't bash anyone for their opinion, and certainly do NOT tell us we're wrong if most of the majority agrees with our opinion.

Please don't give us this Context crap again. [/QB]

Actually you're dead wrong, seeing as how the majority DISAGREES with you due to the fact that Lang Lang is highly successful, wealthy, boundlessly praised, and is received in a charior everywhere he goes.

So my friend it seems you are actually in the minority.

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"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Originally posted by pianistcomposer: "Worse of all, the worse criticism is from that HR performance on a jay leno show... I fail to understand why you would criticize on that account. If he was playing the very same piece in a concert setting, then i would understand a fair amount of criticism. But on a TV show and judge it with name-calling, proclaming it's unforgivable just makes you look immature."

I don't get it; why should a performance be judged differently based on its location? The music doesn't change from one place to another, except insofar as acoustical considerations must be taken into account (as regards tempo, pedaling, etc.). A performance is a performance, and I think that one should always be striving to put his best foot forward, whether it's at Carnegie Hall or in a retirement community in rural Nebraska. Gosh, I really wish I'd heard this Leno performance so I could know what all the hoo-hah is about...Maybe it'll be re-aired some time. [/b]

I think the venue has a lot to do with the performance, or the way an artist views a performance. More important is the stigma of the typical audience members of the venues. On an amateur level, there's a difference between performing for your mother's dinner party. On a professional level, there's a difference between performing in South Dakota and Carnegie Hall.

Originally posted by SteinwayTony:[Oh, please. I'm free to choose the language I use to word my argument. The difference between myself and others is that I don't make personal attacks.

"Free" to choose the language ? I doubt it. Most of the forums have filters.

You believe that language does not matter as long as you don't make personal attacks... So what about this : "American citizens are dumb, uneducated and overweight beer drinkers !" - You see... no personal attack ! How do you feel about it ?

Originally posted by SteinwayTony:[Oh, please. I'm free to choose the language I use to word my argument. The difference between myself and others is that I don't make personal attacks.

"Free" to choose the language ? I doubt it. Most of the forums have filters.

You believe that language does not matter as long as you don't make personal attacks... So what about this : "American citizens are dumb, uneducated and overweight beer drinkers !" - You see... no personal attack ! How do you feel about it ? [/b]

Ah it's ok friend, I enjoy drinking beer and fine wines all day, living in the lap of luxury in the greatest country on Earth, every convenience at the command of my every whim while you dredge in the muck for every last rupee, sheckle, or peso you can find to finance hay for your horse and buggy while I drive around Manhattan in my Lexus.

_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Originally posted by SteinwayTony:[Oh, please. I'm free to choose the language I use to word my argument. The difference between myself and others is that I don't make personal attacks.

"Free" to choose the language ? I doubt it. Most of the forums have filters.

You believe that language does not matter as long as you don't make personal attacks... So what about this : "American citizens are dumb, uneducated and overweight beer drinkers !" - You see... no personal attack ! How do you feel about it ? [/b]

Here's how I feel:

I feel that your mediocre command of the English language is inhibiting your ability to full comprehend what I'm trying to say. That became evident when I said I was "free" to use whatever language I wanted, and you superficially interpreted that as my saying that I can use curse words in the forum. Maybe there are some manurisms that don't exactly translate. No matter, that's irrelevant, but I don't understand why you are aggressively picking apart every single aspect of my sentences; since they have nothing to do with the topic I can only assume that's either (a) a personal problem you have with me, or (b) you exploiting the internet to get your suppressed rage out. Either way, I did nothing to deserve it.

There have been good arguments on both sides. I think LandLang has incredible technique, but I don't personally like his playing. I don't care for his interpretations. I believe that some of his interpretation is simply to capture the general public who does not know anything about classical music. The very fact that he was on the Leno Show, playing HR #2, interpreting it in such a showy manner, and paying such little attention to a polished performance, shows that he is a little too focused on the fame and publicity. I love that he is trying to bring more people into classical music, but I don't believe that he is doing it in the right manner. I realize that some of his playing is genuine, and really does focus on the music, but I still don't care for most of it. But hell, I also don't care for some of Cziffra's or even some of Horowitz's playing. LangLang is young, and still has the opportunity to grow as a musician - I may love him in 20 years.

Quote:

Originally posted by SteinwayTony:But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line.[/b] Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong.[/b]

I think that you are being slightly hypocritical. After all, wasn't this thread telling people who dislike LangLang that they are wrong? If me telling you that I don't care for LangLang is trying to convince you that you shouldn't like him, than your thread could be considered an attempt to convince me that I should like him. No one was trying to convince anyone of what they should or shouldn't like, and certainly no one has tried to "brainwash" anyone else. That is just absurd. People have simply expressed their opinions of LangLang. If that is "brainwashing", than any discussion could be considered to be "brainwashing".

I don't want to create any animosity between myself and anyone else in this discussion. I respect everyone here, and I also respect your opinions. (I have noticed some enmity growing between some posters, and I don't want that to happen with me)

Originally posted by C.V. Alkan: After all, wasn't this thread telling people who dislike LangLang that they are wrong?

Plainly, no. I thought I made that clear.

I have nothing against those who dislike Lang Lang. But there is a difference between a polite discussion of dislike and an aggressive Salem Witch Trail-esque call to arms against people who show even a smidgen of support or defense for Lang Lang. This thread does not say "If you dislike Lang Lang, you're wrong and let me show you why." Absolutely not.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but, how I understood steinwaytony is that he is simply making the point that there is far too much brainwashing going on where people attempt to FORCE others whether through coercion or mass pressure to dislike Lang Lang because the opinion seems trendy when in reality as I have pointed out the LL detractors are in the VAST MINORITY.

Lang Lang is beloved by millions in many different countries and he is praised by his peers, Daniel Barenboim amongst others no less.

So to try to brainwash people who haven't heard much of him yet, that he's not worth it is absolutely outrageous.

I'm not a BIG fan of his but I have his CD's and I enjoy them on occasion.

In the end, I agree with the title, he's better than everyone here so what's the difference. No need to be bitter and jealous over his success, he has earned it through harder and longer work than any of you have ever done. So what HE decides to do with his payment of that work is up to HIM. He is in no way disgracing any masters because the masters are long dead and even when they lived they did not OWN their works. Once you compose it and you choose to send it out into the world, it is no longer yours and is open to full interpretation.

_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Actually you're dead wrong, seeing as how the majority DISAGREES with you due to the fact that Lang Lang is highly successful, wealthy, boundlessly praised, and is received in a charior everywhere he goes.

[/QB]

So if your incredibly rich and successful, you have talent??? What about Steve O - He's rich and famous??? DOes he have any talent???

Being rich has NOTHING to do with Talent. Thought you would have figured that by now...

That's funny, I remember listing SEVERAL attributes, one of which was fame DUE to his success and yet you chose to childishly single out fame and ignore everything else, such as the fact that most of LL's peers such as Daniel Barenboim and other famed composers and conductors praise him.

Way to go there Einstein.

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"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Another reason that I don't, at this point in the man's career, care for LangLag:

My teacher, one of the most respected teachers in Colorado/Rocky Mountain Region, took one of his students (who happens to be the best young pianist in the Rocky Mountain region) to see LangLang last year. After the performance, LangLang was signing autographs. My teacher and the student went to speak to LangLang and have a conversation with him. After waiting in a long line of screaming fans, they walked up to LangLang to introduce themselves. LangLang grabbed my teachers program out of his hands, scribbled his signature across it and waved him aside. When my teacher protested and tried to introduce himself LangLang said rudely, "I don't have time for you, I already gave you my signature."

My teacher is close friends with many pianists (Marc-Andre Hamelin, Jean-Yves Thibaudet, Stephen Hough, Andre Watts, and many more) and has done and still does extensive research for their recordings - like finding rare music. He was going to introduce himself to LangLang and offer him his services. LangLang acted like a pop star with an overblown ego and dismissed him rudely. I have gone back stage to meet performers numerous times, and have never been treated like that.

LangLang behaves like a pop star. Look at what he did on the Leno Show. He only played to please the general public and gave no attention to detail. His giant gestures are to make people who don't know better say, "Wow, he must be really good." I saw a special on him on sixty minutes, and it felt like I was watching a special on MTV or E. It could easily have been 50 cent or Brittany Spears in his place - the difference is that LangLang has real talent. We all can see his incredible technical and musical abilities. However, in his immaturity, he chooses to make a fool of himself. I believe that this may go away as he grows as a performer and as a person.

As for all the talk about jealousy. Do you all honestly beleive that the people who don't like LangLang only dislike him because they are jealous? Of course we are jealous of him. We are also jealous of Cziffra, Horowitz, Hamelin, Hough, Beroff, etc. but no one is tearing them apart. People dislike him because of the reasons I gave in my above post. He acts like a pop star with an overblown ego, and that gets in the way of his musical abilities.

As a classical musician I pride myself in putting music above asthetics and popularity. I can see that Brittany Spears has no real music, but was only popular because of the media, her looks, and publicity. LangLang does have real music, however he is largly popular for the same reasons that Brittany Spears was - that angers a lot of people. If LangLang was to present himself as a musician - the same way Yundi Li, Thibaudet, and other pianists do - than I believe that none of the animosity towards him would exist.

Boo hoo your world renowned teacher who is best friends with Stephen Hough, Marc Andre Hamelin, Jean-Yves Thibaudet, Andre Watts, Alfred Einstein, President Roosevelt, Jimmy Hoffa, private secretary to president Bush, assistant to Nelson Mandela, Knighted by the Queen, first astronaut to land on the moon, and the founder of Microsoft was brushed aside by the great "LandLang" or was that "LangLag?"

Big deal, Lang Lang doesn't have time for every little peon who comes up to him "offering him his services." What kind of nonsense is that, this is Lang Lang we're talking about. What manner of service can your teacher possibly offer Lang Lang who has nothing left to learn in the world of music?

To be quite honest, I'm surprised he didn't call security on your disgruntled little teacher and his world famous students. :rolleyes:

(p.s. this post was written as a joke to make light of the situation, in case anyone hasn't noticed... har har)

_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Originally posted by C.V. Alkan: As for all the talk about jealousy. Do you all honestly beleive that the people who don't like LangLang only dislike him because they are jealous? Of course we are jealous of him. We are also jealous of Cziffra, Horowitz, Hamelin, Hough, Beroff, etc. but no one is tearing them apart. [/b]

WHAT? No one is tearing them apart? I don't know how long you've been on these forums but before the trendy Lang Lang hating clique moved in, Hamelin, Cziffra, and Horowitz were amongst the biggest targets of absolute violent hatred and pianistic discrimination.

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"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."