Could a team hire an attractive female model to hold the drivers number if they wanted to? If not then it's a ban.

I don't know. If someone knows please chip in.

The question is, why should a team do that to begin with? For what purpose?

For whatever reason they like. Maybe they have signed a commercial deal with a swimwear company, maybe the team owner just wants to look at a pretty girl. But that's a deflection. You said it wasn't a ban, but it actually very much is. Look at the language used. Liberty aren't saying they will no longer be providing grid girls. They are saying there will be no grid girls.

It was a decision by the new owners to stop hiring the services of grid girls. Nowhere in the FIA regulations does it stipulate that there should be grid girls. I appreciate the use of emotional language to drive your point, but the word ban is entirely wrong and misleading.

Not it isn't. It's an accurate sumurisation of the effects of the decision taken. Your argument that it isn't is based entirely on semantics.

Well for starters you have to find evidence that the teams themselves previously had the right / were allowed to hire someone to hold drivers number. If they were not allowed to do so before the so-called "ban", then there is no ban.

The difference between ban and stop using is semantics. You yourself is arguing semantics with me right now.

The thing with grid girls in f1 specifically in my opinion, is that other than the corridor of clapping girls, they pretty much blend in to everything else and aren't forced onto the viewers in the same way that they are in other motorsports. Look at the Monster girls in bike racing (tbh I don't actually know if they are still used or not) who are blatantly there to be sexualised and leered over by male viewers. Since I started watching f1 almost 20 years ago, the grid girls have never been used in this way. Having said that, they don't really serve a purpose that couldn't be done with a digital overlay or a pole stand, which is why I voted 'male - no preference'.

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

_________________There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.

The thing with grid girls in f1 specifically in my opinion, is that other than the corridor of clapping girls, they pretty much blend in to everything else and aren't forced onto the viewers in the same way that they are in other motorsports. Look at the Monster girls in bike racing (tbh I don't actually know if they are still used or not) who are blatantly there to be sexualised and leered over by male viewers. Since I started watching f1 almost 20 years ago, the grid girls have never been used in this way. Having said that, they don't really serve a purpose that couldn't be done with a digital overlay or a pole stand, which is why I voted 'male - no preference'.

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Well for starters you have to find evidence that the teams themselves previously had the right / were allowed to hire someone to hold drivers number. If they were not allowed to do so before the so-called "ban", then there is no ban.

The difference between ban and stop using is semantics. You yourself is arguing semantics with me right now.

Your first paragraph makes no logical sense. It's not relevant.

You said it wasn't a ban. In words perhaps not but it is on any practical terms or to put in another way the action taken leads effectively to a ban.

I'm not vehemently arguing in favour of having grid girls by the way. I couldn't care less. I just get annoyed at the very aggressive social political drive which I feel is somewhat misguided.

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

I don't remember any disgusting reactions personally, unless you're going to base the legitimacy of something on a small handful of internet trolls.

We have/had grid girls (and Monster girls etc. in other series) because the large majority of the viewing audience is males. Just look at the poll, 76 votes as it stands, 9 women - so less than 15% of this particular sample. It's basic advertising, you wouldn't put a Black&Decker advert on TV during an episode of Sex and The City, the same as having grid guys is a pretty daft idea.

An F1 driver is not going to refuse a grid boy or make homophobic comments. They're surrounded by supermodels and Hollywood celebs 24/7, they're not going to care about one girl holding a sign at the point of the weekend they're most focused on the race ahead, let alone refuse to have him there.

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

I don't remember any disgusting reactions personally, unless you're going to base the legitimacy of something on a small handful of internet trolls.

We have/had grid girls (and Monster girls etc. in other series) because the large majority of the viewing audience is males. Just look at the poll, 76 votes as it stands, 9 women - so less than 15% of this particular sample. It's basic advertising, you wouldn't put a Black&Decker advert on TV during an episode of Sex and The City, the same as having grid guys is a pretty daft idea.

An F1 driver is not going to refuse a grid boy or make homophobic comments. They're surrounded by supermodels and Hollywood celebs 24/7, they're not going to care about one girl holding a sign at the point of the weekend they're most focused on the race ahead, let alone refuse to have him there.

It was hardly a handful on social media but they were definitely trolls. Although to ask them I'm sure they'd more describe it as just "bantz".

This is what they want to change (It being a Sport aimed at men) and I don't think anyone didn't understand why the girls were there and not men. And I wasn't advocating it, just pointing out why I think they couldn't even consider having both.

In public or out of malice I'd agree. But in these times it doesn't have to be intended for a crap storm to be created for your brand. Any type of "Why do I get the guy" comments/jokes can open you up to some criticism, the couple of times they did it in 2015 (iirc) Seb got himself in a bit of bother for some pretty tame comments so I think any idea for mixing it up left the table shortly afterward personally. No idea what being around supermodels/celebs changes about it.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

I don't remember any disgusting reactions personally, unless you're going to base the legitimacy of something on a small handful of internet trolls.

We have/had grid girls (and Monster girls etc. in other series) because the large majority of the viewing audience is males. Just look at the poll, 76 votes as it stands, 9 women - so less than 15% of this particular sample. It's basic advertising, you wouldn't put a Black&Decker advert on TV during an episode of Sex and The City, the same as having grid guys is a pretty daft idea.

An F1 driver is not going to refuse a grid boy or make homophobic comments. They're surrounded by supermodels and Hollywood celebs 24/7, they're not going to care about one girl holding a sign at the point of the weekend they're most focused on the race ahead, let alone refuse to have him there.

It was hardly a handful on social media but they were definitely trolls. Although to ask them I'm sure they'd more describe it as just "bantz".

This is what they want to change (It being a Sport aimed at men) and I don't think anyone didn't understand why the girls were there and not men. And I wasn't advocating it, just pointing out why I think they couldn't even consider having both.

In public or out of malice I'd agree. But in these times it doesn't have to be intended for a crap storm to be created for your brand. Any type of "Why do I get the guy" comments/jokes can open you up to some criticism, the couple of times they did it in 2015 (iirc) Seb got himself in a bit of bother for some pretty tame comments so I think any idea for mixing it up left the table shortly afterward personally. No idea what being around supermodels/celebs changes about it.

It means that being around attractive ladies is hardly a novelty for these drivers and they probably don't care much either way about one girl. Seb only said whatever he said because it was unusual to have grid guys. If they were there every race, nobody would be talking about them.

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

I don't remember any disgusting reactions personally, unless you're going to base the legitimacy of something on a small handful of internet trolls.

We have/had grid girls (and Monster girls etc. in other series) because the large majority of the viewing audience is males. Just look at the poll, 76 votes as it stands, 9 women - so less than 15% of this particular sample. It's basic advertising, you wouldn't put a Black&Decker advert on TV during an episode of Sex and The City, the same as having grid guys is a pretty daft idea.

An F1 driver is not going to refuse a grid boy or make homophobic comments. They're surrounded by supermodels and Hollywood celebs 24/7, they're not going to care about one girl holding a sign at the point of the weekend they're most focused on the race ahead, let alone refuse to have him there.

It was hardly a handful on social media but they were definitely trolls. Although to ask them I'm sure they'd more describe it as just "bantz".

This is what they want to change (It being a Sport aimed at men) and I don't think anyone didn't understand why the girls were there and not men. And I wasn't advocating it, just pointing out why I think they couldn't even consider having both.

In public or out of malice I'd agree. But in these times it doesn't have to be intended for a crap storm to be created for your brand. Any type of "Why do I get the guy" comments/jokes can open you up to some criticism, the couple of times they did it in 2015 (iirc) Seb got himself in a bit of bother for some pretty tame comments so I think any idea for mixing it up left the table shortly afterward personally. No idea what being around supermodels/celebs changes about it.

It means that being around attractive ladies is hardly a novelty for these drivers and they probably don't care much either way about one girl. Seb only said whatever he said because it was unusual to have grid guys. If they were there every race, nobody would be talking about them.

Ah, Well I never suggested otherwise, I just meant putting their foot in it with comments about having a dude instead but yeah it would eventually die down you would hope but in the meantime you're brand is dealing with things like the "I can't enjoy beautiful men" comments about them from the drivers.

Just not worth the potential headaches when you can just follow WEC and FE's lead and dump the girls.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

I don't remember any disgusting reactions personally, unless you're going to base the legitimacy of something on a small handful of internet trolls.

In fairness, I did say some. Maybe I should've stated a minority, but I do remember within that minority (trolls or not) a fair amount of homophobic responses to seeing buff, scantily clad (tight shirts and short shorts) guys holding up the flags etc.

_________________There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

I don't remember any disgusting reactions personally, unless you're going to base the legitimacy of something on a small handful of internet trolls.

In fairness, I did say some. Maybe I should've stated a minority, but I do remember within that minority (trolls or not) a fair amount of homophobic responses to seeing buff, scantily clad (tight shirts and short shorts) guys holding up the flags etc.

TBH I don't understand the connection you've made in your first post. Put simply, you're saying some people are homophobic so female models shouldn't be employed at motor races. To me that makes no more sense than saying some people are Islamophobes, so Jehovah's witnesses shouldn't be employed at the post office.

As a side note, I remember how some forumers reacted in such a (imo) disgusting way and were up in arms when Monaco put out some grid guys saying that they don't belong there. And if that was a wider view, I'd be tempted to vote for getting rid of grid girls.

Bingo. And it took the option of mixing the grid girls with some boys away from Liberty as well because of that reaction. And it wasn't just on here but on social media was worse and even Seb got himself in a bit of bother.

No chance Liberty would risk a repeat or put their star names in a position they could say or do something that could hurt the brand to a great extent. Imagine if a driver refused to have a boy or made homophobic comments. He'd get run out of the Sport no matter who he was in these times.

Not worth the risk so just sack them all of and start a fresh with something new.

I don't remember any disgusting reactions personally, unless you're going to base the legitimacy of something on a small handful of internet trolls.

In fairness, I did say some. Maybe I should've stated a minority, but I do remember within that minority (trolls or not) a fair amount of homophobic responses to seeing buff, scantily clad (tight shirts and short shorts) guys holding up the flags etc.

I am sure someone can resurect the thread if they want to. I too remember the uproar of an all male mode grid and the mixed, both here and on the net. The net was worse, not trying to lay blame here, but no point claiming it didn't happen.

_________________“The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.”― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah

We live in a world that is forever changing, evolving (and sometimes devolving) things that were ok a few years back are now considered properly wrong,i was born in the 60's and some of the language used around that time, would but people in jail or hospital if used nowadays (rightly so).

I heard Stephen Fry recently explaining this, saying about in the 70's, on national TV we had a program called the Black and White Minstel show, which was meant to be a version of old Minstel shows, but in this they had lots of white people "blacked up" for "effect" ,clearly this is best gone, and few would argue against that, but in the day when it was stopped there was uproar, very similar to what many are saying on this matter ?

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

Maybe I'm just a liberal do-gooder, but i would rather try to help people, than try to destroy them, just to deflect from my own insecurities ?

This has been said already I think to a certain extent - I have been following the thread but don't have time to go through it and quote anyone that has already said something similar at the moment - but Liberty could have avoided this whole uproar by just saying

"We are changing from using Grid Girls to using "Grid kids" who are junior racers, mainly kart drivers to give the youngsters an opportunity to experience the excitement of a Formula One grid and help give them more inspiration to achieve their goal of becoming a Formula One driver"

They chose to use the PC option instead. I think THAT is what people are more upset about.

They clearly knew exactly who was going to replace the grid girls prior to their announcement - but this has generated MUCH more publicity......

I know this has definitely been said already, but I want to add it in as a final part of my post.....

If/When we have a budget cap in F1, will everyone that is crying for the grid girls to be saved be campaigning for the poor engineers that will no longer be able to work in F1?

We live in a world that is forever changing, evolving (and sometimes devolving) things that were ok a few years back are now considered properly wrong,i was born in the 60's and some of the language used around that time, would but people in jail or hospital if used nowadays (rightly so).

I heard Stephen Fry recently explaining this, saying about in the 70's, on national TV we had a program called the Black and White Minstel show, which was meant to be a version of old Minstel shows, but in this they had lots of white people "blacked up" for "effect" ,clearly this is best gone, and few would argue against that, but in the day when it was stopped there was uproar, very similar to what many are saying on this matter ?

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

Maybe I'm just a liberal do-gooder, but i would rather try to help people, than try to destroy them, just to deflect from my own insecurities ?

Not relevant to this discussion at all. That was inappropriate because it was white people deliberately mocking black people and portraying them as happy-go-lucky, uneducated simpletons. If every F1 race was preceded by a 10 minute episode of 'The Bimbo Show' where men dressed as women with blonde wigs and acted out foolish, slapstick scenarios under the guise of a pretty blonde woman, THEN it would be similar.

Grid girls don't send any message to society other than this is one of thousands of possible career choices. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't refuse to take her into McDonald's, in case she saw a girl working the chip fryer and decided that's what she wanted to be when she grew up.

We live in a world that is forever changing, evolving (and sometimes devolving) things that were ok a few years back are now considered properly wrong,i was born in the 60's and some of the language used around that time, would but people in jail or hospital if used nowadays (rightly so).

I heard Stephen Fry recently explaining this, saying about in the 70's, on national TV we had a program called the Black and White Minstel show, which was meant to be a version of old Minstel shows, but in this they had lots of white people "blacked up" for "effect" ,clearly this is best gone, and few would argue against that, but in the day when it was stopped there was uproar, very similar to what many are saying on this matter ?

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

Maybe I'm just a liberal do-gooder, but i would rather try to help people, than try to destroy them, just to deflect from my own insecurities ?

Not relevant to this discussion at all. That was inappropriate because it was white people deliberately mocking black people and portraying them as happy-go-lucky, uneducated simpletons. If every F1 race was preceded by a 10 minute episode of 'The Bimbo Show' where men dressed as women with blonde wigs and acted out foolish, slapstick scenarios under the guise of a pretty blonde woman, THEN it would be similar.

Grid girls don't send any message to society other than this is one of thousands of possible career choices. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't refuse to take her into McDonald's, in case she saw a girl working the chip fryer and decided that's what she wanted to be when she grew up.

I think his point was more about the initial uproar over time giving way to general acceptance and eventually querying why people got upset in the first place rather than any direct comparison between the things that have been 'banned'.

We live in a world that is forever changing, evolving (and sometimes devolving) things that were ok a few years back are now considered properly wrong,i was born in the 60's and some of the language used around that time, would but people in jail or hospital if used nowadays (rightly so).

I heard Stephen Fry recently explaining this, saying about in the 70's, on national TV we had a program called the Black and White Minstel show, which was meant to be a version of old Minstel shows, but in this they had lots of white people "blacked up" for "effect" ,clearly this is best gone, and few would argue against that, but in the day when it was stopped there was uproar, very similar to what many are saying on this matter ?

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

Maybe I'm just a liberal do-gooder, but i would rather try to help people, than try to destroy them, just to deflect from my own insecurities ?

Not relevant to this discussion at all. That was inappropriate because it was white people deliberately mocking black people and portraying them as happy-go-lucky, uneducated simpletons. If every F1 race was preceded by a 10 minute episode of 'The Bimbo Show' where men dressed as women with blonde wigs and acted out foolish, slapstick scenarios under the guise of a pretty blonde woman, THEN it would be similar.

Grid girls don't send any message to society other than this is one of thousands of possible career choices. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't refuse to take her into McDonald's, in case she saw a girl working the chip fryer and decided that's what she wanted to be when she grew up.

I think his point was more about the initial uproar over time giving way to general acceptance and eventually querying why people got upset in the first place rather than any direct comparison between the things that have been 'banned'.

People accept things which are normal, it doesn't mean they're right. In Saudi Arabia women accept that they aren't allowed to drive cars because that's been the norm for decades. Doesn't mean it's right.

Rather like with the 2009 aero-rules, everyone thought they looked hideous with the oversized front wings and tall skinny rear wings. After a couple of seasons everyone was used to it but the old cars still looked better IMO.

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

Isn't that what they are wanting to change? (Their target demographic)

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

Isn't that what they are wanting to change? (Their target demographic)

I’m not entirely convinced of that. I think it’s just a blatant PR stunt designed to get them in the news and ride the current political mood. But in any event, I’d be very, very surprised if teenage girls are in any way a target demographic. It would require a lot more than F1 being politically correct to engage that population IMO.

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

Isn't that what they are wanting to change? (Their target demographic)

I’m not entirely convinced of that. I think it’s just a blatant PR stunt designed to get them in the news and ride the current political mood. But in any event, I’d be very, very surprised if teenage girls are in any way a target demographic. It would require a lot more than F1 being politically correct to engage that population IMO.

Definitely no easy task but obviously not limited to teenage girls but rather moving away from being targeted at any specific group and opening it up more to anyone is what I took from the vision of the brand part anyway.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

Is it disrespectful to a woman that she performs a job that she chose (very happily), via her own free will, and a part of the job is that she uses her natural attractiveness for commercial purposes?

We are so lucky that you are a part of a movement that is saving women from themselves, and instructing them on how to live their lives properly. Whatever they would do without such guidance?

I think what they are saying is that it's disrespectful for the organisers to think that the best way to promote what is supposed to be a sport about racing cars is to dot scantily clad women about the grid. It just seems a little odd to me - if I want to see attractive women then there is a wealth available on the internet. I actually think it's almost disrespectful to fans to think that the one of the ways F1 can be made more interesting is with the addition of grid girls.

I don't think that anyone wants to instruct women in what they can and can't do with their bodies. I myself have said in this thread that I think stuff like modelling can be really empowering and, quite frankly, if you've got it then it's your right to flaunt it. I think the people who need "instructing" (I don't even think I would use that word) are the organisers who feel the need to "roll out some totty" as a way of promoting a sporting event

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

Is it disrespectful to a woman that she performs a job that she chose (very happily), via her own free will, and a part of the job is that she uses her natural attractiveness for commercial purposes?

We are so lucky that you are a part of a movement that is saving women from themselves, and instructing them on how to live their lives properly. Whatever they would do without such guidance?

I think what they are saying is that it's disrespectful for the organisers to think that the best way to promote what is supposed to be a sport about racing cars is to dot scantily clad women about the grid. It just seems a little odd to me - if I want to see attractive women then there is a wealth available on the internet. I actually think it's almost disrespectful to fans to think that the one of the ways F1 can be made more interesting is with the addition of grid girls.

I don't think that anyone wants to instruct women in what they can and can't do with their bodies. I myself have said in this thread that I think stuff like modelling can be really empowering and, quite frankly, if you've got it then it's your right to flaunt it. I think the people who need "instructing" (I don't even think I would use that word) are the organisers who feel the need to "roll out some totty" as a way of promoting a sporting event

Hand in hand with this false logic is the logic that scrapping grid girls is "taking away the rights of the girls" - as well as being frankly absurd, as this isn't a ban on their profession - where does that leave the rights of the F1 organizers to not have grid girls? Do they have to be forced to have grid girls if they don't want them?

The bosses of F1 have the right to choose whether or not they wish to have them at the event. Scrapping them doesn't take away any of the girls rights to do anything. It reduced their job opportunities. If Formula 1 suddenly decides it doesn't want hot dogs to be sold at their races, it is not taking away the rights of hot dog vendors.

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

You don't know this. Some of the most unusual people I know are fans of sports you wouldn't really put together. Hell, my girlfriend's mother, in her 70's is watching F1 religiously! Can't name a single driver, mainly because we don't speak the same language, but she is never missing a race. I also found out that my aunt, a school teacher, used to be a mad WRC fan, following Mouton back in the day and going to the Rally Acropolis. You just can't tell these things.

Bit late to the party, but voted "no preference". I couldn't care less who is in front of the cars. I'm watching for the cars, technology, drivers, tracks. It's a context wherein beautiful women don't matter to me.

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

You don't know this. Some of the most unusual people I know are fans of sports you wouldn't really put together. Hell, my girlfriend's mother, in her 70's is watching F1 religiously! Can't name a single driver, mainly because we don't speak the same language, but she is never missing a race. I also found out that my aunt, a school teacher, used to be a mad WRC fan, following Mouton back in the day and going to the Rally Acropolis. You just can't tell these things.

More than 10% of F1 fans are female, and 26% are under 25. So even assuming that the gender split is equal across genders that means that more than 2.5% of F1's fans are females under the age of 25. With ~400 million people watching Formula 1, that means there are around 10 million females under the age of 25 watching the sport.

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

You don't know this. Some of the most unusual people I know are fans of sports you wouldn't really put together. Hell, my girlfriend's mother, in her 70's is watching F1 religiously! Can't name a single driver, mainly because we don't speak the same language, but she is never missing a race. I also found out that my aunt, a school teacher, used to be a mad WRC fan, following Mouton back in the day and going to the Rally Acropolis. You just can't tell these things.

More than 10% of F1 fans are female, and 26% are under 25. So even assuming that the gender split is equal across genders that means that more than 2.5% of F1's fans are females under the age of 25. With ~400 million people watching Formula 1, that means there are around 10 million females under the age of 25 watching the sport.

Mind you, I don't trust these surveys, wherever you got these numbers from. They do give a general feel, but without knowing how they obtain these figures, what was the target sample and how they arrived to them, I'd hold a small basket

Edit - I just saw the link you provided, that's providing a bit more insight!

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

Game of Thrones is not a heart throb soap opera, even if it has been marketed thus. It is the ultimate incarnation of fantasy geek, which means mostly unwashed teenage guys who read too much Tolkien and Martin.

Maybe in 10 or 20 years time, we will look back and wonder why we ever had grid girls and how disrespectful that was and how it sent a very mixed message to young girls about their value in society ?

I highly doubt that there are more than a thousand young girls on this entire planet who watch Formula 1. Teenage girls are literally the furthest thing away from F1's target demographic. They are too busy watching things like Game of Thrones to care about Formula 1.

Do you think that models in general are bad for young girls, because it's apparently wrong for an attractive woman to use her looks as a source of income?

Game of Thrones is not a heart throb soap opera, even if it has been marketed thus. It is the ultimate incarnation of fantasy geek, which means mostly unwashed teenage guys who read too much Tolkien and Martin.

Really nice stereotyping guys. It's attitudes/prejudgements/pigeonholing like this that perpetuates this world of gender bias, where women get paid significantly less and opportunities for the youth are dismissed or glossed over or deemed 'not suitable' by men.

More or less, this whole page has been a rehash of the same dis-proven ridiculous preconceptions from page one. STILL, men are talking about scantily clad women as if it is somehow relevant. Have you seen the music videos of today's pop stars? F1 grid girls don't dance around in lingerie or topless do they? Do you ban your daughter from watching music videos? DO you think all teenage girls should not be allowed to watch this type of media?

Honestly, the next time I hear scantily clad , skimpy, overtly sexual, tarts, sluts, etc. being used about this topic I might explode.

Here's a question for you guys who love telling women what they can or can't (or should or shouldn't) do. Would you let your daughter do a commercial for shower gel or moisturiser? How about a lead role in a Hollywood movie? Would you stop her from becoming a model / actor in the first place or limit the type of model or role she can be?

_________________“The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.”― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah