If a player isn’t cooperating, or getting it and insists on making his monk addicted to fine smelly cheeses and burping, you’re screwed. I think that it’s also the process for creation, player idea, plugging it into the rules, cooperating with DM.

I agree that players and the rules should do their parts, and the GM is ultimately the final arbitator. I was merely urging the GM involved herself early in the process.. collaborating with the players from the beginning rather than ‘sitting on high’ as a sort of appeals court judge. I don’t know if that makes sense or not.I think of PLs and Point limits and early detours and roadblocks… “No Possession or Corrosion powers please”… or make sure your character will not depend on being alone and sneaking around to be effective (this never works in a group game). I don’t think we are in disagreement at all about this. Just adding emphasis.

FYI The entry is out of context, but originally it was about how much rules should prevent people from building rules-exploitive characters (I summon minions who all duplicate and then coordinate attacks, etc). The rules can only do so much. Ideally your players shouldn’t be trying to take advantage of loop holes, and the rules should be built to prevent that as best they can, but finally it will fall in the GMs lap to say no. But the previous two steps (the player’s taste and the rules) should each be doing their part to make the GMs life easier.

I think these are not ordered in the way you suggest. Perhaps the ordering is unintentional. Sometimes the rules indicate what qualifies as a good idea and what does not. If a game doesn’t include certain character types, certain powers, etc.. it might be for a good game balance reason. Likewise, a GM may need to step in to set some guidelines or make suggestions even before the player begins to design a character. I think you are right, all three of those are relevant. But in my experience if you use a sort of flow chart method. Step 1. Build the character you want. Step 2 Consult the rules to make sure it is ‘legal’ and Step 3 give to GM to ensure it is balanced, fair, etc.. Doesn’t always work. Sometimes the GM needs to say.. keep powers at 20pp or don’t even try to make a Mentalist, or whathaveyou… before the character generation begins, or else it could become a tug of war with the player.