{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

Wow. So at the same time we’re complaining about women being sexually attractive to men, we’re also commenting with a term that completely connotes a woman’s sexual attractiveness to men. All in a three word sentence.

Lying is not only encouraged, it's forgivable. Telling the truth is not.

_________________God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

"...There is so much more to this than can be expressed in a brief statement here. The letter remains completely imperfect, and will not be rewritten to appeal to a broader audience of critics. It is was it is and is an honest expression of years of frustration. You're stance is certainly more in step with what I received from my stake president. Be that as it may........

It didn't take 30 years to come to some sudden conclusion that my family wasn't worth the hassle. There wasn't some growing/evolving coldness in my heart to where I could without conscience separate myself from my family. The departure from the church and ultimately from my family..... took place over the course of over 20 years. Each time doubts were validated by fact, it shook me.....and ultimately when looking at my young children and the commitment of marriage to my wife, I shrank in my resolve to leave and tucked it away in the "ignore" file. But it had an effect on me and was corrosive to my own soul and self perception. The long term effect of the nagging feeling of something unresolved ultimately led to self deprication, suicidal thoughts and the overwhelming feeling of lack of faith and selfishness in my thoughs......and absolute worthlessness. I hated myself and find it easy to drift it into that mindset. 2 years of counseling have done little to restore my self esteem. You don't know me well enough to make your assessments. I carry the blame that my actions brought about the death of my family and marriage. No one can comprehend the effect that has on my conscience. I am not a victim here in saying that.....i am the cause and the recipient.

The mindset as a contributing member is as such......In its simplest form, you go to bed at night feeling guilty and ashamed for your circumstance/doubts and for not having done enough to further the kingdom. And when you wake up your first thought is the sick, naseaus feeling of having commited a serious sin for not believing with all of your heart, might, mind and strength. You pray, repent and ask God to forgive you for your weakness and lack of faith and vow to do better the next day. In my unworthiness thinking.... I became fixated on the thought that I wasn't worthy of a hot shower. Moses, Abraham and even Joseph Smith the prophet never had the luxury of a well appointed bathroom and a how shower with a razor and great shampoo, soft towels etc. This mindset destroys and does not lift as you go through the course of your day. Unhappiness, the feeling of unworthiness, deciet, shame, guilt etc become your constant companion.

I worked harder and harder to live church doctrines so that I could prove to myself, and to my family that I needed to improve and the fault was not in the absurd nature of their doctrine. IT was me. I was convinced that I had TOO little faith, TOO much doubt and my heart was TOO hard to recognize truth. To overcome that I educated myself. Listening to Elder Maxwell and each and every talk over and over. I bought and read over and over his 28 books, Hugh Nibley, Teaching of the prophets, Doctrines of Salvation and on and on and on. I spent thousands on church leader authored books and stopped reading anything that didn't come from Church leaders. I read voraciously and over time, expanded my understanding and my abiltiy to express myself in the context of the church's doctrine. I perpetuated the MYTH. I live with that shame daily and am haunted by the thousands of people that I've visted with in making them feel what i felt. That the problem lay with them and not with the doctrine. I am ashamed of that and do feel that a day of reckoning will yet come for the role i've played. It's affected every aspect of my life and now at 58 continue to try ot overcome the feelings of worthless for what i've done.

As to the callings and your assessment that I somehow was bloated with self aggrandisement........Each calling came with renewed terror and realization of unworthiness and the unresolved doubts in my mind. I had no problem quoting the words of Maxwell, Holland, Hinckley (to name a few) and share THEIR thoughts on doctrine. Mine for the most part remained secret. My wife on the other hand relished the fact that her husband was in leadership. It was the one thing that made her happy and in restrospect, she truly defined your comment about benefitting from the power, prestige etc. As an FYI, there is no power, and no prestige. If you have never served as a Bishop or HC or EQ Pres. and actually done what you were called to do, then you would not know that there is mind numbing exhaustion that accompanies the calling. You are the recipient of far more criticism and hatred as you try to unravel and support people in their poor choices in life. You don't sleep at night as you mull over what just happened. What would drive a young man to masturbate his dog? What would motivate a young woman to have 7 abortions? Why was she so enamoured with being pregnant and then in the last few days of her first trimester would have the child aborted. How do you help her stop cutting hersefl. How do you calm yourself when you have searched indesparation for a young man who struggles with same gender attraction and the explusion from his family? He's on the phone with you at 2 am and your trying to find out where on the railroad tracks he's layed down, waiting to be cut in pieces by the next freight train. How do you sleep with the imagery of a beautiful you polynesian girl who is a week away from leaving on a mission, and has just taken a bottle of advil pm and 10 vicodin with almost a 5th of vodka, all because she cannot suppress her doubts. It's a royal mindf*ck to experience these things the night before you have to be uplifting and happy and smiling for the wedding you're going to perform in the morning or the baptism that you're supposed to conduct the next day or even later that night. Prestige???? Power??? Shame on you for your comments that appear to emmanate from ignorance. If you've never served in these roles, YOU ARE UNQUALIFED IN YOUR COMMENTS, and remind me of those who pontificate in Gospel Doctrine....even though they never read the lesson. Maybe you're a disaffected member who never really gave your full effort to anything more than criticising others. As Maxwell once said....."negative thoughts and criticism are like dandilions, and need no encouragement to grow".

I would submit here in public forum that I have made mistakes and suffer immeasurably from my participation in all of this. I blame much on myself and live and deal with that daily. I also submit that part of the church's role is to keep people so busy that they are too exhausted mentally to actually think for themselves or to research something. The ones that do find the time, generally don't give anything of themselves to the church or to it's ability to succeed.

When I was a much younger man, my father (a rock solid mennonite christian) told me there are three kinds of people in the world. 1. People who watch things happen2. People who make things happen3. People who wonder....what just happened.

If affected me greatly at the time and still has influence in my life today...40 years later.

I leave it to you to decide where YOU fit into that description. I suppose the forum will form it's own opinion of where you might fall into it as well.

I've been all three in my life and eventually gravitated to becoming a 2. I made things happen. I sacraficed incalcuable amounts of time and money to the betterment of a human life. The thousands of dollars that were given to YSA's to bail them out of jail, pay for rent, tickets, warrants etc could not be counted as tithing. As a Bishop we didn't have enough $$ in Fast Offerings to pay for these things, and for the most part was a violation of church policy to spend money on these things. Someone had to do something to get them out of a rut and give them a fresh start. The system is broken and completely ineffective, both in the church's system as well as in society....but that's another topic in itself. None of these additional gifts were or could be claimed as tithing by the church. It was an enormous financial hardship. But..... I bought into the culture of goodness that "mormonism" engenders/markets itself in society....of being a good, principled person who is kind, patient, loving, generous, long suffering and all the other "godly" attributes that they hope to be known for.

I'm not sure my IQ has improved over 30 years. I do know that my naivity has certainly been removed. And as to being victimized........my entire family has been vicitimized, as have countless others.

You cannot begin to calculate the effects my departure has had on the thousands of YSA's that i've worked with, or the over 500 marriages i've performed with YSA's that come out of addictiion and found a loving companion and have started their own families. I'm haunted by excruciating feelings of shame for the young families that have named their child after me as a offering of gratitude and respect. No amount of appology or explanation can soften the feelings that they have when they call their child and are reminded of the origins of the name and how the person who once helped them, now stands for something entirely different. It's confusing for them and probably embarassing. That will last a lifetime.

As to my immediate family, they too are victims.......different elements.......they remain the victims of the church's mind control and doctrine and the feelings of unworthiness, and remain too afraid to confront real truth. They are also the vicitms of the destruction of my marriage and family dissintegration, not just me. At the center of all of the feelings of vicitimization remains the LDS Church. Which in the letter was my focal point. They are the core of what has happened to me and many others. My story is not unique in any way, but I want to be a voice against the LDS Church and it's destructive nature. Families are NOT forever as the church claims. They only are if you do it there way. If they were truly for families to be together forever, they wouldn't encourage spouses to leave one another when there is a faith crisis that challenges their doctrines and origins with FACT. So much more could be said here, but I do need to get to work."

_________________God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

Gotta give it to em, quite the sneaky way to circle the wagons as if they were still defending a religious need to keep inbred propositions alive, (Present Day LDS Multi-Wife Temple Ordinances) also known as key sources of Accidental LDS Incest.

_________________God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

Try and claim exclusions from subjugation to the good laws of the land citing religious discrimination and then land your movement squarely in the crosshairs of Accidental Mormon Inbreeding also now recently tagged Accidental LDS Incest.

"And while Bartholow was not as confident as the New Orleans physicians that polygamy was the culprit, he was as certain as they that a “new race” had evolved. This condition is shown by…the large proportion of albuminous and gelatinous types of constitution, and by the striking uniformity in facial expression and in physical conformation of the younger portion of the community….The yellow, sunken, cadaverous visage; the greenish-colored eyes; the thick, protuberant lips; the low forehead; the light, yellowish hair, and the lank, angular person, constitute an appearance so characteristic of the new race, the production of polygamy, as to distinguish them at a glance."This is all repeated in the thread, "Hate Mormons Go To Prison" as a titled entry. You'll see in the links that Mormonism is officially declared a separate and distinct ethnic group.

Yonder Muslims have Mormon likened trouble in more than a single area.

Rebecca is the yellow haired bluish-green sunglassed model, did you notice?

"...the greenish-colored eyes; the thick, protuberant lips; the low forehead; the light, yellowish hair, and the lank, angular person, constitute an appearance so characteristic of the new race..."

_________________God of Poly-Folly Folly

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944

{If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ~Stevie Wonder}..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944........................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkkD8HU944