Ok, I dont have any hi-def set up in my house. I was rooting for the red team before the blue team "secretly" bought out the referees to favor them. So, this has given me a bit of a tainted view on the whole HD world.

Needless to say, when I see the Blu-ray trailers, I feel like they bottling promises that are overtly an exaggeration of what the reality is. When I am at Target, they continue to bastardize standard DVD as poor in quality, even to the point of making you feel inferior of owning a standard DVD. Its insulting and angering.

The other thing I see when I see Blu-ray trailers is they are advertising better quality than DVD, but this is all displayed on a standard DVD. How can blu-ray show itself off when recorded on an SD? They even try to show you side by side comparisons of how good Blu-ray is compared to SD. Technically this would mean they would have to make the SD look worse than it would really be in order to show off BD, which in effect is lying (skewing the truth at least).

So, essentially, Blu-ray is promising more in its ads than the product it delivers, which is why, to me it makes it like an Exploitation Film trailer.

Does anyone else feel this?

(as a note - I know that this is not going to change the existence of BD or anyone's opinion on the matter, but just felt like stating this opinion as it has come to me recently).

Dick Ringeisen

07-25-2009, 01:44 AM

DVD's decent, but most Blu's do offer more than a DVD.

I enjoy my DVD's, jsut watched Virus on the Sonny Chiba Collection last night, decent trasnfer... last time I watched it was an edited VHS. But, if it were in Blu, I'd prefer that.

It all depends on a setup, and what a person has to experience it with. I have 2 HDTV's (Both are Toshiba Cinema Series. "Red team"!), both set-ups also support HD audio codecs through their receivers. One has 7.1 surround, the other 5.1. Though the 5.1 will soon be 6.1, as I am relocating a Polk CSI3 that was once my center channel to the rear to be the 6th channel, since I recently upgraded my center. The used selling price for that CSI3, I'd rather put it to use as a 6th channel than sell it for half or less than I paid for it.

I'm ready for HD, audio, video.

Just as I'm happy with my 1080i HDTV's. I know there are better TV's out there, with deeper blacks, but I'm ok with what I have for now, it cost enough at the time. When I get something better, it should give a bit more of a "new life" to my DVD's and Blu-rays, jsut as my new center speaker is giving me a bit more I didn't have before.

I know of other people who do not have HDTV's, some don't have surround sound. Those people, they're generally OK with what they have until it dies out. Most, while they ahve no choice to upgrade to an HDTV, probably won't ever upgrade to surround sound of any sort. For a while I was OK without having surround sound, but once I experienced someone's setup with a good surround sound system, I was done with TV speakers, cheap satelite speakers, etc. I was sold on nice surround sound.

This year, I recall isntalling and wiring surround speakers and a receiver for someone, and they asked, "OK, now what if I want to listen to this, that, or the other through the TV speakers and not the external speakers?". I laughed a bit, and said, they won't want the TV speakers after this, if they want simple steroe, mono, whatever, they can force it through the receiver, no need for the TV speakers ever again... Months later, I haven't heard anythign about TV speakers, only that they are happy with their setup.

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There will always be superior stuff out there. I know of some folks with projector systems, and, well, depending on the setup, sometimes (most of the time) I'm a bit jealous of their setup :). This year a friend I know in central europe told me about the projection setup in his apartment. Not sure if it would stomp my setup, but it's definitely larger. Probably also more recent technology....

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Blu-ray promotion loops in stores... It's all advertising, doesn't remind me of exploitation trailers, simply advertising trying to sell you/me/someone something. It does remind me of the DVD displays a Best Buy and such when the DVD format took off, only not as extreme. The DVD launch stuff was something else. There were "rooms", or floor displays that you could step into and sometimes they had setup on the floor, possibly a chair, and experience a promotion DVD on loop, with scenes from movies like Twister and such, all with surround sound, to show off to you what DVD had to offer visually, and audibly. I never cared much for Twister, my memories of it are mostly from that DVD loop, hahah.

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Anthony, what stores have Blu promotion loops playing on DVD? As far as I know, and the ones I've seen, are all playing on Blu-rays on HDTV's. Wouldn't surprise me, I'll run a search online to see what I can find.

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Vincent Pereira

07-25-2009, 02:53 AM

Ok, I dont have any hi-def set up in my house. I was rooting for the red team before the blue team "secretly" bought out the referees to favor them...

Woah, who bought who out?

Like you, I was initially in favor or HD-DVD- the reasons being, it was much more a "complete" format at launch, it was cheaper to replicate (which would theoretically make it more attractive to indie producers), expensive copy protection was not mandatory like it was with Blu-ray (also a potential roadblock to the small indie labels I love so much), and advanced codecs which would improve quality were mandatory in HD-DVD, while they were optional in Blu-ray...

That being said, it was clear from early on that Blu-ray had much more studio (and filmmaker) support, and thus had a greater chance of succeeding. Blu-ray was also- while not as "finished" at launch as HD DVD was- technically the superior format thanks to much greater capacity (25 gigs per layer vs. 15 gigs per layer in HD-DVD) and much greater bandwidth (maximum 50 MB/S for Blu-ray vs. maximum 30 MB/S for HD-DVD). I bought into HD-DVD before Blu-ray simply because there was that insane sale in the 4th quarter of 2007 where Toshiba was selling its HD-A2 at a ridiculously low price. I figured, even if HD-DVD did end up losing to Blu-ray, paying $100 for a player wasn't that big of a gamble, and it wasn't...

But the EVIDENCE suggests that if anybody was "buying people off" back then, if was HD-DVD, not Blu-ray. Paramount's sudden jump to solely supporting HD-DVD in the fall of 2007 has all but been confirmed as having been due to a pay-off from the HD-DVD folk. The momentum even then was more towards the Blu side, so no other explanation makes sense.

In the end, I'm just happy to have high quality High-Def media so readily available. Now that Blu-ray has won and is becoming more and more established, hopefully we'll see mastering and replicating costs drop, and more and more indie companies (Synapse Films, I'm looking in your general direction) will be able to come into the fray, and we'll all be able to be blessed with quality High-Definition filth from here to eternity.

Anthony, what stores have Blu promotion loops playing on DVD? As far as I know, and the ones I've seen, are all playing on Blu-rays on HDTV's. Wouldn't surprise me, I'll run a search online to see what I can find.

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The blu-ray loops on DVD are on DVD's, not the ones in the stores. I had just rented Waltz in Bashir and there was an ad for Blu-ray on a standard DVD. I dont know how they can demonstrate with complete honesty that blu-ray is superior on a DVD. Its like advertising CD sound quality on a cassette tape.

Dick Ringeisen

07-25-2009, 07:24 PM

The blu-ray loops on DVD are on DVD's, not the ones in the stores. I had just rented Waltz in Bashir and there was an ad for Blu-ray on a standard DVD. I dont know how they can demonstrate with complete honesty that blu-ray is superior on a DVD. Its like advertising CD sound quality on a cassette tape.

Oh, those commericals. Those remind me of the DVD commericals on VHS tapes, usually near the previews.

As for making standard def look "worse", you're right, it's bogus on those SD dvds you mention. But I've seen the blu-ray store display ones too, and frankly they're "downrezing" there as well, which is very dishonest. There was one playing at Fry's that made standard dvds look like VHS in the split screen comparison. I had to laugh, because in their enthusiasm the store had taken on themselves to "help" and had printed their own examples of the differences by showing frame grabs from both formats of ICE AGE to point out the additional detail. While it was there certainly, it was much subtler than the blu-ray sales disc made it out to be, and I heard several people looking at it and saying they saw no difference at all. I think this is part of the dilemma of selling the format to the general public . . . . on a properly calibrated display and a great HD transfer the differences ARE dramatic on some titles, but not on others. It's an improved format, no two ways about it, but if the improvement is significant enough for the mainstream consumer I'm not so sure.

Also, the way the stores calibrate the sets to display it are GROTESQUE, but that's another rant.

Dick Ringeisen

07-26-2009, 09:20 PM

Haha, those are great.

As for making standard def look "worse", you're right, it's bogus on those SD dvds you mention. But I've seen the blu-ray store display ones too, and frankly they're "downrezing" there as well, which is very dishonest. There was one playing at Fry's that made standard dvds look like VHS in the split screen comparison. I had to laugh, because in their enthusiasm the store had taken on themselves to "help" and had printed their own examples of the differences by showing frame grabs from both formats of ICE AGE to point out the additional detail. While it was there certainly, it was much subtler than the blu-ray sales disc made it out to be, and I heard several people looking at it and saying they saw no difference at all. I think this is part of the dilemma of selling the format to the general public . . . . on a properly calibrated display and a great HD transfer the differences ARE dramatic on some titles, but not on others. It's an improved format, no two ways about it, but if the improvement is significant enough for the mainstream consumer I'm not so sure.

Also, the way the stores calibrate the sets to display it are GROTESQUE, but that's another rant.

That's why I never go by how certain electronics look on the sales floor. I was at a Target with someone, and just to kill 1min or so we went to look at the TV's. He was saying, "Which looks better? I think this one, better picture, etc". I todl him I don't go much by how they look on the floor, especially at Target. I don't know what source they are feeding into it, how the contrast and such is setup, etc. Plus, I'd rather read a full set of specs on the internet, and also read some review from others who have purchased that product. After researching it a bit, then I'd go to a store to look at the menus and such.

Some stores let you play with the TV's. There is a certain specialty TV place where pretty much all they sell are TV's. They have books and sales slips about them, plenty of spec sheets, they let you adjust settings, you can bring in your own device to hook up to it if you ask (They observe, maybe plug it in for you, don't want someone damaging the floor model).

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The worst Blu I'd seen was 28 days later. The lossless audio track is nice, but the picture, not much better when compared to DVD. Then, what I recall about that movie is it was recorded in 480 anyway, so not much difference could be made when it was released onto Blu-ray. I saw it in the theatre, and recall it not looking too hot there either.

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Yeah, those commricals are fun. They each are a bit later than the other, the first commerical states 2,000 DVD's available and players starting at $299.99, the next 3,000 DVD's, the final one 5,000 DVD's available and DVD players starting at $200.00. I still haven't been able to locate that sales loop I saw at Best Buy when DVD premiered. I found a post somoene made online mentioning it (Twister was one of the first 30 DVD's), but I haven't found the video online anyplace...

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AnthonyT

07-28-2009, 03:42 AM

Those commercials are great. But they are identical to what Blu-ray is doing with DVD as well. The intensity of how great the format is, and how you are putting a theater into your living room.

The difference really is that here, the DVD is not quite bashing VHS as a format, but really telling you what DVDs are. While Blu-ray, its assumed you know what a DVD is, and so it craps all over the SD by saying its better and giving false comparisons to boot.

Dick Ringeisen

07-28-2009, 04:07 AM

From what I've seen they are similar to the above, and don't crap too much on DVD.

The message most of them seem to get across is, "This is what a Blu-ray is like. (Sometimes there is also a compairson to DVD thrown in there) Do you have an HD-TV? Get a Blu-ray player, and watch that same movie in better quality."

It's all personal taste. I prefer Blu-ray, but I still buy DVD here and there, though usually for $5 or less. Shit, I just dumped about $60.00 on Martial Arts DVD's (And one Blu-ray) from the now dead BCI. 20-25 movies total, I haven't totalled it yet.

If you don't have an HDTV, don't worry about Blu-ray for now. When you do decide to buy an HDTV, then it pretty much makes sense to drop a bit more $ on a Blu-ray player.

Ah, yes. I remember the first time I encountered a DVD. As the sounds whizzed by me I began to swivel my head wildly, unable to determine whether what I was hearing came from my speakers or was actually being produced by small robotic insects, flying past my ears. "Who, what, what!?!" I exclaimed. The visuals prompted me to convulse as my brain spasmed and my eyes rolled back in my skull. It was as if I was experiencing the Rapture, orgasm, and spontaneous cranial combustion all at once. As soon as the seizures subsided I changed my pants and slept for 22 hours, waking the next morning to find that my eyes were bleeding from the tear ducts.

Barry M.

07-28-2009, 12:39 PM

Y'all are actin' like it's the first time anybody ever lied to you :D

I've learned to enjoy it, myself.

Kristian R

07-28-2009, 12:44 PM

Blu-ray ads offer a much sharper picture and better sound than exploitation trailers.

Darcy Parker

07-28-2009, 11:10 PM

Blu-ray ads offer a much sharper picture and better sound than exploitation trailers.