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The BSA’s Mormon Problem

The Boy Scouts of America have a Mormon problem. Before you get all feisty, I should make it clear that in general I’m a big fan of Mormons. They make for generally great people, are pretty fun to hang with out, and are usually pretty smart. However, the BSA has a big Mormo

Temple Square

n problem and it is a root for the organizations biggest threat of extinction. The problem is two fold.

Scouting “Mormon” Style: All Mormon young men are registered with the Boy Scouts. This is great because it brings more boys into the program right? Well, I said registered. You see the LDS church uses the Ward system and each Ward has a Troop, Team and Venture Crew. Boys shift based on age. The big problem is that only a few boys actually participate so while the number look good, the Units are in fact woefully underpopulated. The BSA doesn’t say anything because the LDS Church pays for each registered boy not each active boy. The Mormon Scouts are robbed of the real boy/boy leadership skills and exposure to different points of view. In addition, the LDS Church bastardizes the Scouting program for its own purposes. Boys who should be learning to camp aren’t because they don’t have the Priesthood, and Adult Leadership is chosen by the Bishop rather than based on who wants and is most capable to lead. The adults get a call “You have been called to be a Scoutmaster” and often the response is “A Scoutwhat?” Assignments only last a few years and then new blood is plucked out of nowhere to fill the hole. (The above is not going on in every LDS Ward, but more often than not). To be honest, all the above isn’t too bad. A chartering partner should have some control over how their program is run (although it should be within the traditional parameters set out by the BSA). My big problem is when the LDS version of the program bleeds into other units. Example? Camporees ending on Saturday afternoon, Summer Camp cut short, etc. I understand if the Unit wants to leave early but when a member of the LDS Church is put in charge of District or Council events, the events should maintain their traditional program. I’ve heard that the further away a Troop is from Salt Lake City the less severe this problem is, however, the second prong is a nationwide problem.

Scouting Held Hostage: The more severe problem is the Mormon influence on National BSA policies. Particularly on the issue of permitting gays to be members. Back during the whole BSA v. Dale (extended post on this tomorrow) excursion, the LDS Church made it very clear that if the BSA was forced to allowed homosexual members, it was going to leave. So, the BSA fought tooth and nail to win the lawsuit. The incentive of course was the inflated membership and money flowing in from the LDS Church. Many councils, especially those in the West rely heavily on the member income from the Mormon Church. If the Church bolted, membership would immediately dramatically drop, budgets would be cut, etc. If the BSA is to move into the 21st Century, it might have to without the LDS Church. One of the reasons the Councils, including my old Council the Nevada Are Council, allow the LDS to shift the program to their needs is the cash that comes from membership (membership that is grossly inflated). the LDS are allowed to play by their own rules while all the Units and Religious Organizations are forced to follow the LDS moral policies.

I’m not saying the problem with Scouting is the Mormons are involved (in fact I would like it very much if the BSA could keep the Mormon Church involved), I’m saying one of the greatest difficulties for the BSA moving forward is how more socially evolved the program can be than one of its biggest participants. If the BSA is anchored to match the Mormon social culture of today, I fear the BSA won’t make it for the next hundred years.

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58 thoughts on “The BSA’s Mormon Problem”

It appears to me that BSA made the mistake of allowing religious organizations to join as a chartered body. Who would have thought, 100 years later, BSA could make decisions based upon which chartered organizations belong and follow suit with the media of today… It will be sad to see drastic changes to BSA because they aren’t willing to comfortably make a decision, rather they are willing to succumb to pressure. Just think, in several months to years from now, we will not be discussing this anymore because BSA will have made a decision to either protect its chartered organizations, or follow suit, like many organizations, to the ideals of the 21st century. I would like them to make a decision, regardless of which, stick to that decision and be proud of the decision they make. This we see no more of in the 21st century.

Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm.
Abraham Lincoln

As a side note on the gay issue, the LDS Church is already more progressive than the Scouts. Openly gay youth or leaders have been permitted to participate in the Church’s Young Men’s Program for quite some time, as long as they remain celibate. There is no policy against gay leaders or youth in the LDS church.

I am LDS and find this article rather, what’s the word, ignorant. I have been a part of young men programs as a leader now for 10 years, I am 34. I am extremely experienced and have had opportunities to be a Scout Master, Varsity Coach, Venture Advisor and Unit Commissioner. It is my experience that so called unqulified individuals who don’t have a clue about scouting are rarely asked to serve in the young men organization. If they are though they have others in the program with experience to teach them and lead them. Currently all advisors in our organization are Eagle Scouts or have many years of scouting experience. Are they perfect scouting leaders, absolutely not, but they do the best they know how.
It is true, LDS Boy Scouts do get a different experience than other troops I am sure, but this is not a problem. I am sorry that the LDS Scouting experience has soiled your perception of what scouting should be but let’s be honest, your unit receives significant benefits from LDS participation. Nowhere in your article do you give credit for the significant upside of LDS participation which I find sad.
My troops have always had non-LDS boys involved. We reach out to every young man scouting age to participate. We love all young men and we want the best for them. I don’t care if they are LDS, Catholic, Jewish, black, white, yellow, or blue with pink stripes, I want them in my troop. I don’t care if they are gay, as long as their behavior and choices meet the “BSA’s” established standards.
Lastly, to blame the “BSA’s” morality solely on the LDS Church is nothing less than unfair. It’s clear that you have tunnel vision in your opinion. Its not just the LDS Church that supports the standards of the BSA, Baptists, Methodist, and Catholics organizations also fought along side of the LDS Church, amongst MANY others. Singling out the LDS Church simply shows your bias and narrow experience to justify your frustration of what you perceive to be confining.

I’d have to agree with this entire blog. We’re a traditional pack and troop, in a primarily Mormon community, so we’re surrounded by Mormon troops. I’ve seen the BSA program bastardized. The boys really aren’t leading their troops; the adults are. When there are merit badge clinics, our boys look great in their class A’s. Much of the Mormon troops show up unorganized, board shorts flip flops. Our boys definitely notice the difference. It must be hard for a seasoned old man to see the lack of pride of scouting and failure to follow rules and traditions that were once important, and not just going through the motions. Also, the majority of Mormon troops here push boys to earn their Eagle rank by 14, which is quite unreasonable, and technically questionable. Why exactly are so many doing a “scouting for food” Eagle projects? That shouldn’t qualify as a real Eagle project since they already do that annually. Another traditional scout leader equated Mormon scouting to that of a college mill, calling it an “Eagle or Merit Badge Mill”. Where the qualifications were pushed through with little significance, and the journey was list. It should count for something, nor just be another checkbox on the list of things to do. Often though, that’s exactly what I’ve seen happen. Also, with church ran scouting, diversity ends up being on the bottom of the list and I don’t believe that church ran scoring has BSA best interests, intentions, or traditions in mind.

I know this post is old, but it is still up so people are still hitting it I’d guess.
I disagree with the posters here. I am a Mormon who has refused to assist with the boyscoutss. BSA has created another new/revised health check sheet with a long list conditions (almost none of which have any bearing on scouts’s safety), and then the form demands, and I quote: “List all other medical information.” ALL!
I am a physician and i am outraged. We are not “brave” if we support this. We are not trustworthy if we let people think we approve of this. Mormons were once brave, honest and smart, and well…clean.
The True church is true. It does not lie. It does not condone or enforce the stripping away of the body’s coverings. It does not engage in the moronic and insulting public ridicule of children and mothers done by the likes of “Bobwhite Blather” and “Fmaynard” who claim that people who don’t approve of the BSA’s demands are simply nutjobs. (http://www.fmaynard.com/scouting/archives/1694)
It does not force parents or children to expose themselves to the eyes of others, or lie about who they are for any reason. Least of all lie in order to
join an organization whose primary claim to fame is honesty.
If the Mormon Church is too timid to say “No.” Then it is neither the True Church nor a boyscout, for it is neither brave, nor honest.
Are we so shallow, cowardly, and incompetent that we will give up honor just to go on a walk.
Or is it that the boyscouts has purchased the Mormon Church by offering their boys the
public decoration of eagle scout to those who are willing to go along with the subjugation of others.
One has to ask, Where is Salt Lake City?

As a lifelong Mormon scout, my perception of the above article is fairly conflicted.

First, I can agree that, in some wards, the scouting experience is entirely cheapened. However, this is not so much a Mormon problem that the BSA has that is it the inverse. The scouting program is just absolutely AMAZING. If the Mormon Church truly desires to incorporate it as part of their young men program, then it MUST hold its scoutmasters to a higher standard.

To be fair, I have known a great many LDS scoutmasters who do a great job for their troops. There are certain wards where the scoutmasters are second to none as far as dedication, commitment, and their level of service.

However, in some wards and stakes, the scouting program is seen as an afterthought or, worse, an inconvenience. I have seen wards where the scoutmasters do not require the boys to be in uniform. I have seen others that justify 20 minutes of talking and two hours of playing ward basketball qualifies the scout for the law merit badge. I have seen wards where there are FAR too many “death bed eagles” with weak eagle projects. Likewise, I have seen some other wards elevating far too many 13-year olds to the rank of Eagle with far too minimal efforts or with very weak eagle projects.

Again, the author’s commentary is well-taken. However, I just wanted to point out that this is a problem that the Mormon Church needs to recognize to hold certain scoutmasters more accountable. As the author states, far to many Mormon scouts are robbed of the overall experiences by scoutmasters who just aren’t “into it” at all.

On the second point, I disagree with the author entirely. The BSA’s decision to not allow homosexual adults to be scoutmasters was largely determined by any number of the religious organizations affiliated with the BSA — including, but certainly far from limited to, the LDS Church. Even Cub Scouts learn that duty to God comes first and Mormonism is far from the only worldwide religion involved with the BSA that discourages its members from practicing homosexuality.

That being said, I think your opinion on the second prong is fairly myopic. Moving forward, the BSA has already shown that it can and will progress into this new century. It has done so by reaching more broadly to members of other faiths — such as Judaism, Islam, Buddihsm, Hinduism, and Bahai faiths. Where once the BSA was largely seen largely as a Christian organization, I think it is now safe to say it is “religious.” However, the BSA is not (and never will be) “secular,” which to me and other life-long scouters does not seem to be a problem moving forward.

to Jeff: I appreciate your comments and your willingness to agree that the LDS
has indeed bastardized the boy scout program to suit ITS religious policies.

We watched LDS scouts go off on a weekend outing and come home with merit badges that took our scouts a couple of months to work on….we learned that some of the requirements had been ”set up” for them to observe and check off.

There has been in the pasta preponderance of 13 yr old LDS Eagles !!
The standards in most other troops have leadership requirements that cannot
possibly been done by age 13. Unfortunately that has led to the description of LDS Eagles to be ”paper Eagles only”.

I understand that in LDS Scouting, a Sr. Patrol Leader must be a member of the
Mormon Priesthood. That obviously excludes gay and non-LDS scouts from every serving in that leadership position and would likely prevent them from making Eagle. Far in the past, ”black” Scouts were seldom even allowed to join period.
Being an LDS Eagle is nothing but one more accomplishment to add to the
list of things that must be done to go to Mormon afterlife and live in the
best of the best heavens.

The BSA program is skewed to be USED for a different agenda.
But the BSA is compelled to look away because of the LDS funding.

”Practicing homosexuality” is a term used by homophobes that implies their sexual identity is chosen. There are a decreasing number of knowledgable people who know that sexual identity is inborn. Duty to God?..homosexuals can and do practice their religions in a devout manner. And remember also that the “”Mormon God” is not the Christian God IF one reads and understands Mormon Doctrines…which I do.

Some day folks like the LDS and Fundies, etc. might come to the truth that
most pediophiles are heterosexuals !! That presents a significantly higher liklihood that abuse will be done by some married guy with two kids who sits in the front row every Sunday than a homosexual guy. The Scouts also enforce the 2-deep rule mandating that there are always at least 2 adults on any over-nighter.
Do Mormon Youth outings have that rule as well? Are background checks done on the LDS men who are forced to be involved?

I think the day will come when the no gay adult policy still stands to appease the
homophobes….but the BSA will look away if a troop does accept a gay adult.