No, what I would ask is that you look at the issue and ask yourself if it is fair and will it do you any harm. Clearly in this matter, it is not fair
and to allow it harms no one. I am asking people to be true Americans when they are in the voting booth. If there was a ballot initiative to mandate
prayer in school, your religion would dictate that you vote yes, but it wouldn't be very American, now would it? Sometimes we have to separate the
two sides when we are in the voting booth. Equality is one of the founding principles of this country, so we must be good patriots despite our
personal or religious beliefs.

Originally posted by TheRooster
What I'm looking for is a clear definition, something set in stone, not to be breached because down the road something else becomes acceptable to a
select few who wish to impose it on all.

Should slavery have been set in stone? What type of thinking would lead you to condemn all future generations to our limited thinking of today? That
is so ass backwards, I can't begin to wrap my head around it.

Slavery? No of course not, but that happened before the Constitution was drafted, but of course you knew that.

But if I follow your logic, then why have one at all? Or we can have one and just call it the "Bill of Nows" We'll just trust and believe in what
is popular now, and keep changing it when we feel like it. Oh that's right, that's what we're doing now... How's Dr Phil put it? How's that
workin' for ya? Or we can try to stay true to a document (one for the record that did not include slavery) so that future generations see the value
in it. Can you wrap your head around that?

Now you see why the gay community is fighting for this basic right. You don't have to accept or agree with homosexual behavior, but as an American
you should support equality for all, even if you don't agree with a certain group. There are legal protections built into 'marriage', on a secular
level, and all the gay community wants is to share in those protections.

Originally posted by TheRooster
Slavery? No of course not, but that happened before the Constitution was drafted, but of course you knew that.

Wait a second. You were talking about tradition, not the constitution. Stop jumping back and forth. The constitution, as has already been pointed
out, does not mention marriage. In fact, just the opposite - it promises freedom of religion. Also, to be more accurate, the Constitution does not
defend slavery, but it does most certainly assign blacks to count as only 3/5 of a person. How was that workin' for ya'?

Originally posted by TheRooster
But if I follow your logic, then why have one at all? Or we can have one and just call it the "Bill of Nows" We'll just trust and believe in what
is popular now, and keep changing it when we feel like it. Oh that's right, that's what we're doing now... How's Dr Phil put it? How's that
workin' for ya? Or we can try to stay true to a document (one for the record that did not include slavery) so that future generations see the value
in it. Can you wrap your head around that?

I haven't presented my logic yet, I've only tried to understand yours and restate it back to you, using the same types of exaggerated examples.

And for the record, no - I can't wrap my head around any of your logic just yet. Please explain to me how all of your ridiculous straw-men arguments
are supposed to clarify your logic. It seems you are just retreating to sarcasm and hyperbole, in lieu of a rational stance.

Originally posted by kinglizard
Bottom line for me is that I see marriage as a religious union as well as a civil one. Clearly the Bible tells us it is an abomination for a person to
have a romantic relationship with the same sex so I don't want that relationship to be supported by the law of man. I will always vote with my heart,
mind, values and morals leaning towards the laws of God where applicable. I'll leave the interpretation of mans law and the constitution to the
supreme court, meanwhile I will interpret and support the law of the most high God and cast my vote with that in mind.

Meanwhile this "word of God" was written by man. Which makes it man's law. Please don't even try to tell me the original Bible has not been
perversed.

You don't need to agree with me but now you know my position a little better.

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree. But, know this. You are part and parcel of the slippery slope of taking rights away from certain
individuals. Hope that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

^ Then you dont agree with the fundamentals of democracy. My voice was initially silenced by these piece of crap judges. I had to go through the
extra steps of restating my voice through a second vote and if you dont like what the MAJORITY have chosen to put into the constitution, get
your own referendum that gets more votes than what we did. tough crap for you otherwise.

Do you view marriage, in this day in age, as a strictly religious union or as a secular contract/union?

In my view, marriage has become less associated with religion and more associated with secularism. And, if that is the case, how can the state deny
that "contract" based on sexual preference??

[edit on 11/5/2008 by skeptic1]

I think the way society views "marriage" today is a shame. For the record I may be an expert on marriage and divorce as I've been married and
divorced twice. The first time I married was in a church in '85, the second was at town hall. The first divorce nearly killed me. Forgive me, the
onset of depression due to the divorce nearly killed me, the divorce itself was just a bunch of legal papers. I think what is wrong with marriage in
this country is our "disposable" mentality towards EVERYTHING. I peronally never want to get married again unless the woman I marry is willing to
tough it out (or not bat for the other team mid marriage) oops did I just say that out loud?? For me it is a contract or union, one to be loved,
honored, valued, respected, trusted, etc... And fought for when necessary.

Many can ridicule me, call me ignorant, belittle me... Truth of the matter... I think everything that is wrong with this country is the result of just
how far off the beaten path we've wondered from the course set by our founding fathers. That and it seems we have an entitlement mentality in this
country. Nobody seems to want to work for it anymore.

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