originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
If your vaccinated and I'm not then if we were both exposed to the illness allegedly that the vaccination was going to protect you from you should
remain impervious and I will catch the illness. So what business of yours is it if I get sick or not? Then maybe again your just believing the
propaganda and I'm not!

Our studies suggest that despite their transient nature, gene expansions may provide a potent means of adaptation in poxviruses, allowing
them to survive either immune or pharmacological challenges,” Malik said. “Recognizing the means by which they undergo this expansion may
provide more effective antiviral strategies against these and related important pathogens.”

When you reintroduce diseases that we have been immunized against, in a society where a portion has decided to stop immunizing, you are allowing the
diseases to learn how to adapt and overcome the old strains that we happen to be immunized against.

Basically, you are putting us all at risk by allowing grounds where diseases can begin to mutate into something we have no immunization against.

Here we go...

Did not have enough time to skim through the rest of the pages, yet, but stopped here already.

See, do you see what's happening here?

"You're putting the rest of humanity at risk when you do not vaccinate!"

Does that not translate to MANDATORY VACCINATION or what???

Does that not translate to CONCENTRATION CAMPS and possible fines and eventually quarantined to specific living zones?

You see, an IDEA is a very dangerous thing here. Once it's seeded in a person's mind, it will grow and evolve.

At first, it's: "TELL ME, DID VACCINES SAVE PEOPLE??? YES OR NO?????"

YES??? GOOOD!!

NOW EVERYONE MUST GET IT OR ELSE!

Was I wrong to assume eventually people would go this direction?

You're not the first and unfortunately won't be the last to propose this, there are already many in congress that's lobbying for this to happen.

Let me tell you, it's not happening. I for one, will choose to not have children at all if any of this crap takes away THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE!

If you're ok with gradually giving up your FREEDOM bit by bit, it's your choice but you cannot and will not force me along.

And this whole stupid logic of IS IT HELPFUL, DID IT SAVE LIVES? Is not only dangerously shallow but ridiculous.

Since someone already answered your questions, how about you answer some of ours?

1. Where is the freedom of choice?

It isn't Freedom of Choice, when you say, if your baby is not immunized, he/she cannot attend K-12.

It isn't Freedom of Choice, when you say, if you or your family members are not immunized, you need to seek special housing areas.

Because according to your logic, the rest of us who doesn't want to be vaccinated at all, all need to be quarantined.

2. Are you guaranteed to die from Measles and Flu? Or any of the illnesses that vaccines are supposed to protect against?

I'm just curious. Because we have been around on this #ing dirt rock for longer than most can imagine. We somehow survived just fine without the
intervention of modern genetically engineered medicines, but now, it is not ok.

A post earlier mentioned there were 100+ deaths from recent Measles outbreak, care to elaborate on some details of each of the patients health
conditions prior to being infected with the virus? If you had an auto immune problem prior to getting Measles, technically speaking, any other virus
could also potentially kill you. If you had a weak heart condition prior to getting a severe Flu, you might die from it. See where I'm going with
it?

People die, from ailments of all sorts. How many people die from the occasional FLU epidemic each year? Care to tally that? If you do some research,
the figures are maybe about 50k people die from Influenza and Pneumonia for a year.

I'm not against the scientific research developments on cures, but I'm against some of people's logic on the subject of vaccinating the public. The
whole "Kill One, Save A Thousand" mentality.

3. When someone reacts badly to a vaccine, and possibly die or receive permanent damages that affects their lives, what should they do?

People of the BIG PHARMA (With multi million dollar lawyers) vs. Little Old Me (Average Joe who can't even afford a lawyer)?

4. Why are vaccines being produced by businesses with profits in mind instead of helping people?

Did you know, that the entire Measles outbreak, to the financial world, is nothing but numbers and dollar signs?

Just look at how Forbes describes the fall out, they label each kid with a dollar tag on top of their heads, $775 per child to cure the problem.

How it is about helping people/saving people when everything is but a $ sign. Where is the money to be gained if every disease or virus can be
vaccinated to create a 100% immune system protection? If one day everyone on the planet is vaccinated, will these big Pharma go out of business? Will
they easily give up cashing in on the entire human population?

A central concept of toxicology is that effects are dose-dependent; even water can lead to water intoxication when taken in too high a dose,
whereas for even a very toxic substance such as snake venom there is a dose below which there is no detectable toxic effect. Toxicity is
species-specific, making cross-species analysis problematic. Newer paradigms and metrics are evolving to bypass animal testing, while maintaining the
concept of toxicity endpoints.[1]

Humanity did manage to survive without immunizations, however many children did not. World population stayed low, and nearly all women buried some of
her children due to disease. I would rather have a couple children, and not bury any than to have many children knowing I will bury some.

But the truth is, these diseases change and adapt to environment, because their goal is to survive and they cannot survive in an immunized
environment, so when you have people running around un-immunized, you are providing the environment that diseases need to evolve into a survivable
entity in that particular environment, and they will change themselves in order to adapt and survive.

People who do not immunize do put us all at risk, like it or not it is the truth. I will not apologize for speaking the truth, and I gave proof of my
words, read them.

What's constitutional about making everyone take vaccines and shaming those who don't want them? It's absolutely fascist and the excuses are
pathetic. You have no problem with people's rights being violated. You're a hypocrite. Keep waving your flag.

Dude it's a fricking public safety issue not a matter of personal choice. If we let people choose to not get vaccinated then it gives room for the
virus to mutate and go on to kill even more people.

How do you think we eradicated the Smallpox virus? We made everyone get the vaccination. As Grimpachi showed you this anti-vaxxer thing isn't a new
sentiment. Your camp has always waved the "freedom of choice" flag, but the choice you are choosing is the choice to kill another human being
because you transmuted a virus to someone else.

What's constitutional about making everyone take vaccines and shaming those who don't want them? It's absolutely fascist and the excuses are
pathetic. You have no problem with people's rights being violated. You're a hypocrite. Keep waving your flag.

The Supreme Court has already ruled that compulsory vaccination is Constitutional. You have your work cut out for you if you want to change that. I
find it more interesting that you ask "what's constitutional about ... shaming those who don't want them?" Since when is it unconstitutional for
private citizens to shame dangerous lunatics who put the public at risk of contagion? Would you have the government pass a law that no one is allowed
to hurt an anti-vaxer's feelings? How is that Constitutional? Or do you think the mere fact that the government is correctly, analytically, and
precisely describing identifying anti-vaxers as a disease vector is somehow shaming? If anti-vaxers are ashamed of being disease vectors, maybe they
should, I don't know, get vaccinated?

Also the measles virus evolved from the smallpox virus so it could mutate to be as bad as the smallpox virus.
If we don't attempt to eradicate it.
I think anyhow anyone knowledgeable in here? I am going on something I heard years ago.

Yes vaccines work. And if you look at history and then look at today the numbers speak for themselves. Get your children immunized against the deathly
diseases and protect those with compromised immune systems but use common sense, i.e. don't go getting every flu shot being guessed at each year.

For a parent to think they live in a bubble and are protecting their child against some side effect of a vaccination but don't consider how they can
destroy another child's life that hasn't had a chance yet to obtain their vaccination - do I dare consider it murder to some degree? Yes, if I were
the parent of a child that gets infected by your child then yeah I think I would.

We parents want the best for our children but if you are going to be completely anti-vaccine then you had best stop using cars to transport your child
in, had best stop feeding them anything they have to chew and had best make sure you don't ever let them sleep alone in case they stop breathing.

I'll bet every single person in the ancient days would have given their soul for a shot during all the plagues of history.

Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century. As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization (WHO)
estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year. en.wikipedia.org...

Polio: As one of the largest disabled groups in the world, polio survivors also helped to advance the modern disability rights movement through
campaigns for the social and civil rights of the disabled. The World Health Organization estimates that there are 10 to 20 million polio survivors
worldwide. poliotoday.org...

Measles:
During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.www.who.int...
Black Plague: Ole J. Benedictow describes how he calculated that the Black Death killed 50 million people in the 14th century, or 60 per cent of
Europe’s entire population.

Swine Flu:
1918 – 1919
Illness from the 1918 flu pandemic, also known as the Spanish flu, came on quickly. Some people felt fine in the morning but died by nightfall. People
who caught the Spanish Flu but did not die from it often died from complications caused by bacteria, such as pneumonia.
During the 1918 pandemic:
• Approximately 20% to 40% of the worldwide population became ill
• An estimated 50 million people died
• Nearly 675,000 people died in the United States
• www.flu.gov...

Yes vaccines work. And if you look at history and then look at today the numbers speak for themselves. Get your children immunized against the deathly
diseases and protect those with compromised immune systems but use common sense, i.e. don't go getting every flu shot being guessed at each year.

For a parent to think they live in a bubble and are protecting their child against some side effect of a vaccination but don't consider how they
can destroy another child's life that hasn't had a chance yet to obtain their vaccination - do I dare consider it murder to some degree? Yes, if I
were the parent of a child that gets infected by your child then yeah I think I would.

We parents want the best for our children but if you are going to be completely anti-vaccine then you had best stop using cars to transport your child
in, had best stop feeding them anything they have to chew and had best make sure you don't ever let them sleep alone in case they stop breathing.

I'll bet every single person in the ancient days would have given their soul for a shot during all the plagues of history.

Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century. As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization (WHO)
estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year. en.wikipedia.org...

Polio: As one of the largest disabled groups in the world, polio survivors also helped to advance the modern disability rights movement through
campaigns for the social and civil rights of the disabled. The World Health Organization estimates that there are 10 to 20 million polio survivors
worldwide. poliotoday.org...

Measles:
During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.www.who.int...
Black Plague: Ole J. Benedictow describes how he calculated that the Black Death killed 50 million people in the 14th century, or 60 per cent of
Europe’s entire population.

Swine Flu:
1918 – 1919
Illness from the 1918 flu pandemic, also known as the Spanish flu, came on quickly. Some people felt fine in the morning but died by nightfall. People
who caught the Spanish Flu but did not die from it often died from complications caused by bacteria, such as pneumonia.
During the 1918 pandemic:
• Approximately 20% to 40% of the worldwide population became ill
• An estimated 50 million people died
• Nearly 675,000 people died in the United States
• www.flu.gov...

Keep pumping them figures... like they mean anything in the long span of human history.

But I do however, find the highlighted portions to be ridiculous beyond belief...

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. Let's put moral aside for a minute. Your kid drops into river, no one's around but me. I choose not to save him/her, he/she drowns. You think you
can sue me? In United States?

2. You didn't get a Flu shot this year, you caught some bad bug. After you caught it, you passed it on to some guy near you with a bad heart
condition or auto immunity disorder, the guy dies from your Flu strain.

Can his family sue you?

3. Certain vaccines shed (rare occurrence but happens), and can potentially contaminate other people. So if you were to get that vaccine, shed your
virus to another, caused severe harm. Can they sue you for an unwise decision to actually VACCINATE yourself?

It has to go both ways, can't be just one sided.

4. How can you guarantee an 100% no-fault proof, that the disease/virus your child contracted was from mine or others? As it's sometimes impossible
to isolate it down to a single person.

Anyhow, all kinds of discussions, relative to this subject, the way it is being done at this moment, is eventually going to lead to mandatory
vaccinations.

You are lying to yourself and everyone else if somehow you think this is not a precursor to mandatory injections.

You may be familiar with Penn and Teller for the magic tricks and comedy, but between 2003 and 2010, the pair also had their own TV show on the cable
network Showtime, which basically aimed to debunk pseudoscientific ideas, conspiracy theories, and paranormal beliefs, among other topics like
political issues. In one episode, they take on the pseudoscience that is anti-vaccination.

Jennifer Hibben-White's ordeal began in a Markham doctor's office on Jan. 27, and her story is now trending around the world after she wrote an
angry Facebook post about people who do not believe in vaccinations, or anti-vaxxers.

Keep pumping them figures... like they mean anything in the long span of human history.
Of course they mean something in human history. Or are you dismissing history? Sad to dismiss so many dead, including your own ancestors I'm sure. Not
trying to be snippy, it's just unbelievable you are so callous towards history and not having learned anything from it. May as well go back to slavery
and communism and everything else that made life intolerable for millions of people.

But I do however, find the highlighted portions to be ridiculous beyond belief...

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. Let's put moral aside for a minute. Your kid drops into river, no one's around but me. I choose not to save him/her, he/she drowns. You think you
can sue me? In United States?

** I wouldn't sue you. What would be the point? And that's not what I'm saying. I would accuse you of murder though.

2. You didn't get a Flu shot this year, you caught some bad bug. After you caught it, you passed it on to some guy near you with a bad heart condition
or auto immunity disorder, the guy dies from your Flu strain.

** I don't get flu shots. Ever. I am discussing deadly diseases not some fluke that occurs.

3. Certain vaccines shed (rare occurrence but happens), and can potentially contaminate other people. So if you were to get that vaccine, shed your
virus to another, caused severe harm. Can they sue you for an unwise decision to actually VACCINATE yourself?

** This is a potential danger, however it's a teensy blip in the whole scheme of things. If I were the person to die I would be glad that it is
only me that dies instead of oh... maybe thousands.

4. How can you guarantee an 100% no-fault proof, that the disease/virus your child contracted was from mine or others? As it's sometimes impossible to
isolate it down to a single person.

There is no guarantee. Based on the efficiency and speed of which the Ebola threats have been tracked down to the initial person it stands to
reason the same results would occur with an infected child. All children, mine/everyone else's is worthy of being protected. And in a way, and I'm not
saying this is what I believe, but in a way it is selfish thinking to not vaccinate your child for the potential of some side effect when it greatly
increases their chances of catching deadly infections and they in turn infect other children.

Anyhow, all kinds of discussions, relative to this subject, the way it is being done at this moment, is eventually going to lead to mandatory
vaccinations.

** I certainly hope not but since this world isn't perfect and all I can do at this time is protect my child/other children then that is my focus.

You are lying to yourself and everyone else if somehow you think this is not a precursor to mandatory injections.

** Every day we are losing our freedoms. I don't trust all the powers that be but I'd be pretty stupid to think that there isn't a benefit to some
of what I can use for my family's health. And sometimes in the end it boils down to which is the lesser of the two evils.

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