I could definitely be gimped once I have to switch out that engineering trinket Unbuff HP of 413 also seems low compared to my other tanks 475+

Yea I think part of it is the Brewmaster's EH is much lower than most other tanks (particularly druid's).

To put some perspective, say the 25-man normal boss hits for 375,000 damage every 1.5 seconds. Let's say you want to survive 3 1/2 hits (Survivability soft cap); that means under normal conditions, you need an effective health of 1,312,500. For Guardian that would mean about 4-5k mastery and ~510,000 health raid buffed to reach that point.

However due to the way Monk's stagger works, we lower the amount of damage coming in. Let's take your character as an example Toweliee. Let's assume you go with an Agi Flask and food and only gain the extra Stam from Oxe stance and Fort. Raid buffed you would be ~440,512 health.

You also have 4.68% Mastery. If you factor in the Mastery Buff from Pallies, that brings that number up to 7.18%.

Your effective Stagger is as followed 80% - Mastery (7.18%) - (BoK (20%) * BoK uptime). On average BoK has a 75% uptime; so your Stagger is 57.82%

So on average that 375,000 for your Monks is suddenly 216,825 damage per swing. Given the number of times he hits for EH, that Survival soft cap is now 758,887.5

Then we get into the EH for you which is "(Health / (1 - Armor Reduction against level target (93))) / (1 - Ox Stance Physical damage reduction (25%))"

At least for this first week, I think it will be fine since We really don't know what the final damage numbers are from bosses and having that extra stam never hurts. Yes BM tanks will forgo the stam trinkets once they get used to the fights, but for now it should be fine. I know for me, my guild asked me to have a BM Monk available tonight since we are running 2 10-mans since not all of the guild is ready and even though I enchanted for Stamina and dodge for this week, I do plan on going with more agility enchants once I feel more confortable with the fights.

I honestly think Mastery and Sta is the way to go for Brewmasters after the hit and soft expertise cap. I reforged all my haste and crit off and still have no problem keeping shuffle up 100% and still have Chi for Guard and Zen Spheres.

Are you taking into consideration that extra Chi means you can use PB that much more? If Chi was an infinite resource you would be hitting PB every second you weren't doing BoK/Guard maintenance. Plus as you pointed out Zen Sphere's which based on others feedback seem to have questionable benefit considering the 2/4 Chi cost vs clearing Stagger 2+ times.

I'm planning to run one stam trinket (always felt good to have some padded EH at the start of a tier on my DK) to start with until I see how incoming damage is but don't plan to specifically gem for it or mastery.

I haven't noticed Tiger Power dropping between fights myself have it set up on WA and if the pulls are close together I can keep it up with nothing but the occasional maintenance punch. At least pre-raid gear I find dead zones in longer fights I put out a few TP's just waiting on energy to regen though, not sure if there is a better filler choice.

Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-10-02 at 04:40 PM.

The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

Gunna gem stamina and use stamina trinkets for better Touch of Death hits so i top meters...

Anywho don't know if anyone has thought about this but the honor vendors are coming out tomorrow and seeing as JP are useless, being at the honor and JP cap for tomorrow means you can buy quite a bit of honor gear from converting JP to honor seeing as most of the honor will be better than your current heroic pve dungeon stuff

The shoulders have haste and expertise, head has expertise and mastery which is pretty decent, legs have crit and haste which is alright, the gloves have hit and crit which is decent, the chest has crit and mastery which isn't great but all heroic chests are similar itemization.

How is everyone handling the Elusive brew? Are you guys saving the stacks using it then rebuilding it as the 15 seconds are falling off? I currently have EB macro'd to all my abilities for better uptime.

I guess its

1 - use it as a cooldown during a crucial aspect of a fight

2 - pop it whenever its up for overall AV through the duration of a fight

Hey guys,
just started tanking with MoP and already got good gear but also some problems.
My Monk: eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/die-silberne-hand/Woogey/simple

As you can see, two T14 Pieces (really lucky on my first World Boss kill) and overall a good gear in this state of the expansion, I think.
Today we tried our first Challenge Dungeon (Siege of Niuzao Temple) and I feel so squishy and the healing person of our group had a lot of mana problems. We could not finish the dungeon. It was very depressing and I wanted to ask if someone already tanked Challenge Modes and how they managed them.
Maybe there is something wrong with my reforging or gems, I' starting to doubt if I should really going for the expertise hard cap or get some other stats. My priority is Hit Cap > Expertise Hardcap (5,1k) > Agility > Haste > Crit > Mastery.
On Tuesday we try the first raid, I'm really excited how it will work but maybe you have some advice for me.

How is everyone handling the Elusive brew? Are you guys saving the stacks using it then rebuilding it as the 15 seconds are falling off? I currently have EB macro'd to all my abilities for better uptime.

There is no perfect answer to this, really depends on the boss fight mechanics. If incoming melee swings are constant and steady then you shouldn't lose anything by using it on CD. Also, you won't be building up stacks faster than the 9 sec CD so the only time you "loose" dodge right now is sitting at 15 stacks. This all will be changing with gear though. I have a WA that goes off at >= 9 stacks just as a warning I'm close to wasting them or have enough built up for a specific event.

Question on Zen Meditation. Melee attacks break the channel but does the attack that interrupts the ability at least get the 90% reduction?

The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

Keg Smash change from a few days ago is being applied to tooltips, glad they're not changing their minds and now we also have a 100% damage buff to Swift Reflexes... not the place I would have gone to buff (would have buffed SCK myself Brew only of course) but still a buff is always nice .

kinda hoping they'd widen the AoE for BoF though, it can be VERY hard to aim properly.

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Keg Smash change from a few days ago is being applied to tooltips, glad they're not changing their minds and now we also have a 100% damage buff to Swift Reflexes... not the place I would have gone to buff (would have buffed SCK myself Brew only of course) but still a buff is always nice .

kinda hoping they'd widen the AoE for BoF though, it can be VERY hard to aim properly.

I was really, really happy about the KS buff, it's been nice!

Also, relating to BoF, I know it's an AoE cone that *can* be hard to aim but if I move while it's active can I hit more enemies with it? Or does it only hit with the initiation animation and then the rest is just for show?

Also, relating to BoF, I know it's an AoE cone that *can* be hard to aim but if I move while it's active can I hit more enemies with it? Or does it only hit with the initiation animation and then the rest is just for show?

Since its not channeled, I doubt it would hit more people if you moved around.

Also, relating to BoF, I know it's an AoE cone that *can* be hard to aim but if I move while it's active can I hit more enemies with it? Or does it only hit with the initiation animation and then the rest is just for show?

I'm pretty sure that like Cone of Cold the initiall burst is the damage, the animation afterwards is just flavour.

Also, now that people have been trying the raids, how are you finding Brew Mitigation.... Or more importantly how are your healers finding keeping you alive easier/harder/about the same as other classes?

Tbh Towelliee, when I saw 'Tank Damage Changes' I was fully expecting Keg Smash to get nerfed, it's insane damage for an uncapped Aoe move, I would almost prefer them to nerf it and shift some of the damage onto our other moves (BoF, SCK and BoK spring to mind) just so it's not QUITE such a huge loss to get an early Keg Smash miss. I can't count the amount of times I've pulled, KS hasn't connected and it's all gone to shit

Last edited by Gallahadd; 2012-10-03 at 12:01 PM.

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I'm pretty sure that like Cone of Cold the initiall burst is the damage, the animation afterwards is just flavour.

Also, now that people have been trying the raids, how are you finding Brew Mitigation.... Or more importantly how are your healers finding keeping you alive easier/harder/about the same as other classes?

Tbh Towelliee, when I saw 'Tank Damage Changes' I was fully expecting Keg Smash to get nerfed, it's insane damage for an uncapped Aoe move, I would almost prefer them to nerf it and shift some of the damage onto our other moves (BoF, SCK and BoK spring to mind) just so it's not QUITE such a huge loss to get an early Keg Smash miss. I can't count the amount of times I've pulled, KS hasn't connected and it's all gone to shit

Well as far as Stone Guard was concerned, I was taking cmperable damage to the death knight tank, so we do fairly well in that regard.

And i love the fact that we can do competitive single target dps (25-30k most single target fights), and brilliant aoe dps especially in heroics when you have DPS cry that you're doing a nice chunk of dps in trash pulls.. however i do feel a bit iffy with my mitigation still.

I do only seem to be procing two charges of my Elusive Brew at a time... although, i havent actually had a slower weapon to see if it changes as of yet...

I think its either set speeds give you set charges, for eg. 1hers give you 1 charge at around 2.6 speed weapons, 2hers at 3.2 speed (what im using now) give you 2 charges, and id imagine a 3.4 or above will give you the full 3 charges.

It disappoints me a little, that while i do manage to keep my Elusive Brew stacking, i cant seem to have a better uptime on it cause of the charges not being maxxed... in theory this will change when i get a slower weapon.

Any word on a Haste CAP 7162 haste seems insane for return in energy regen

Haste has always been a "plateau" stat for most classes. You can stack it insanely high without DR but there are usually certain points of maximums where you either stop gaining a benefit or reaching X+1 plateau becomes impossible. So right now if there is a cap it would be based on these things:

1) Reaching 1 Sec GCD on abilities not on CD AND having enough Energy+Chi to keep yourself GCD locked.
2) If there is a hard cap to how fast energy can regen? Ex rogue or cat want to chime in?
3) Is there a hard cap on how fast auto attack can be improved too?

#1 isn't possible with T14 gear I think and I don't know #2-3 since I never had to care about "dps" stats before. I'm pretty sure I am correct about haste not having an actual cap where instead you have to consider how it is affecting the mechanics you are interested in it improving.

I think its either set speeds give you set charges, for eg. 1hers give you 1 charge at around 2.6 speed weapons, 2hers at 3.2 speed (what im using now) give you 2 charges, and id imagine a 3.4 or above will give you the full 3 charges.

In theory this just means less crits but more stacks for them and wont improve your stack generation. Really just need to see some serious testing at 90 with equal iLevel but different speed weapons over a large enough sample period (Even a 5 minute fight period is relatively small from a statistical sample size standpoint).

Originally Posted by Grubjuice

Does recount not count Guard as a heal?

Guard is an absorption right? shouldn't it be counted as a heal by Recount? i never see guard included in Recount's healing done or Absorption windows.

Recount sucks for healz it never tracked my DK's absorption correctly. I believe Skada does a better job of this but at least for raiding I always just referenced posted logs to see how I did.

The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.