1. My dorm at UCSB had a pretty even NorCal-SoCal split. There were hardcore Giants fans, Dodgers fans and A’s fans, and one guy even liked the Angels. I remember more than one room in the building having this poster stapled to the wall, looking down on students who gathered on Friday nights to study and discuss charity work. You know, standard Gaucho stuff. For me, it’s more than a little weird that when Tim Hudson arrives next spring I’ll have covered two of the guys in that poster, but it shows you how durable Hudson and Barry Zito have managed to be in a sport that is not kind to pitching arms.

Hudson has started at least 27 games in 11 of his 14 full big-league seasons. He had Tommy John surgery in 2009, but over the next three seasons threw 228, 215 and 179 innings.

2. Hudson mentioned repeatedly that he wanted to stay in the National League and – aside from the obvious fact that you get to face the pitcher — it’s easy to see why. He’s a good athlete who was a pitcher/outfielder in his final year at Auburn and hit .396 with 18 homers and 95 RBIs. Hudson hit .173 in nine seasons with the Braves and – watch out Madison Bumgarner – has homered in three of the past five seasons.

3. Unfortunately, the Giants trainers and doctors are now experts on ankle injuries and the rehab process that comes along with those types of fractures. Clearly, there were no issues when Hudson came to San Francisco on Monday for a physical, and today he said he would be ready for spring training.

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“It’s not 100 percent right now but it’s well on the way,” Hudson said. “I haven’t started running on it yet, but I had the screw taken out last week and now I can start doing a little more in-depth and hardcore rehab. I anticipate in the next month or so being able to start picking up throwing. I don’t anticipate it holding me back at all.”

4. Hudson will turn 40 during the second year of this deal, but it doesn’t seem that he’s worried at all about holding up as he nears the end of his career. “I’ve never wanted to be or never will be a guy that goes through the motions and tries to get by,” he said. “If I can’t be towards the top of any rotation, I don’t feel like I would be in the game anymore. That’s just the kind of mindset that I have and always will have.”5. Interesting side note as Brian Sabean talked about the pitching staff: He mentioned Edwin Escobar, a 21-year-old left-hander who broke free from the pack at High-A San Jose last season. “I’m really banking that Escobar will accelerate his development,” Sabean said.

Escobar, listed at 6-foot-2 and 200 pounds, had a 2.89 ERA in 16 appearances for San Jose, striking out 92 in 74 2/3 innings. He made 10 starts in Double-A and struck out 54 in 54 innings, while walking just 13, holding opponents to a .219 average and posting a 2.67 ERA. That’s a hell of a year for a guy who doesn’t turn 22 until next April.

6. Sabean on the offseason plan: “I think if you look at the Dodgers and more so who went to the playoffs in the National League, the league is very pitching-centric and we failed in that area from top to bottom (last season), some of which was health related. In our estimation, this is a proven model and it worked for us in 2010 and 2012. It’s working for other teams as we speak, including the teams that went to the playoffs.”

7. ESPN’s Buster Olney reported that the A’s finished second in the bidding for Hudson, who wouldn’t go into specifics today. But he did make it clear that the A’s were in it right to the end.

“Billy Beane is a great man,” Hudson said. “I considered him a friend more than a boss. There was interest from Oakland and honestly, it was one of those things that can get emotional for you. They have a great team and Billy has done an awesome job of putting together a winning club. But you have to look at all the factors in play, and San Francisco was a place that felt right.”

8. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution had a lot on this story from the other side. Said Hudson today: “That was probably the hardest decision, leaving Atlanta. After talking with the Giants and everybody in San Francisco, it became pretty evident this was a place that really wanted me, and my family was definitely happy to play here.”

Hudson said both of his daughters were born in the Bay Area but haven’t been back. “That’s definitely something they’re kind of excited about,” he said. “Here in Atlanta, it was nine wonderful years to play for the team I grew up pulling for. I grew up an hour and a half south of Atlanta and that convenience was awesome, there’s no question about it. I looked at this as an opportunity for my family to do something different. It’s a place I think my family and kids are going to enjoy spending their summers.”

11. Hudson and CC Sabathia lead all active players with 205 career wins. Hudson actually has almost as many wins as the rest of the current rotation combined; Cain ranks 43rd among active players with 93 wins, Lincecum is right behind him at 89 and Bumgarner has 49 wins before his 25th birthday. Yes, the “pitcher win” is a nearly meaningless stat these days, but milestones are milestones in this game. The Giants should have one pitcher hit 50 and two more hit 100 next season, and they surely would love to see Hudson get within shouting distance of 250 before his contract runs out.

12. The Giants have the longest sellout streak in baseball and Panda hats still fly off the shelves. Plus, the Dodger$ and all that. So there was pressure to spend and keep pace in the National League West and the Giants have done that, striking early and guaranteeing $148 million to three players before other teams really got into gear. The Yankees and Robinson Cano are apparently $150 million apart at the moment.

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13. How much money is left? “We’ve got plenty of money to spend,” Sabean said. “It’s not a function of money, it’s about the choices at hand and creating the best choices. To restructure this year’s team, I think we have plenty of money to do so. But I don’t know if the outside world is going to be that appetizing. It could be a challenge.”

Regardless of what the Giants do over the next two months, the payroll will certainly be the highest it’s been.

“It’s a jump, yeah,” Larry Baer said of the budget. “It’s a jump. Our history tends to be that we don’t take very wild swings up or down. But it’s up, it’s a jump. Things move around as you go through it but the plan is for it to go up and it’s gone up really every year in recent memory. I can’t remember when it went down.”

14. It’ll keep going up. Sabean told local reporters that the Giants were very close to a new deal with Javier Lopez and Bobby Evans later told SiriusXM’s Jim Bowden that the two sides “are clear in base salary and years and (are) working on the other parts of the deal right now.”

15. Bruce Bochy, No. 15, was on the conference call when Hudson, No. 15, was asked about his number. “Looks like I have to change,” Hudson said.

18. Shin-Soo Choo? “Anything is possible, but I think it’s probably doubtful,” Sabean said. “We’re trying to reshape our pitching staff. Until we do that and then take a step back, I’m not sure we’ll be involved in a big-time (bat). I guess the opinion of who is out there and whether they’re big time remains to be seen. But again, we’re committed to the pitching first.”

Thanks for the new news Alex. Oh the daze- I mean days- of living in San Miguel and Santa Rosa dorms with sand volleyball courts 20 feet outside. *sigh*.

I find this particularly promising (#13):

How much money is left? “We’ve got plenty of money to spend,” Sabean said. “It’s not a function of money, it’s about the choices at hand and creating the best choices. To restructure this year’s team, I think we have plenty of money to do so.

Clearly, they’re calling out they’ll spend. That’s a different tune than we’ve heard. We still have enough needs that it sure would help to get at least one cost-controlled contract.

I’ve gotta say, I’m actually impressed so far. I think many of us are collectively holding our breath, to see if the payroll is restricted by Pence & Lincecum. If not, all the better. Hudson is a great signing, Lopez at 3/18M needs to be next. Would trading Sandoval be good? IF we got Semien and Santiago with cost-control? $154M could then include Ellsbury?

DrLefty

“…gathered on Friday nights to study and discuss charity work.” At UCSB. Yeah, that’s like saying we UCD people spend Friday nights having BBQs at the beach.

carmot

This could be code. “Study”: Which place in I.V. has the cheapest price for Keystone 12-packs? “Charity work”: “Donate to the slush fund?”

Exactly. Sir Beltran is either a Yank or back to KC to close out his career.

carmot

I think his best chance to win is Baltimore, but not sure he’d see it that way.

Chris

What’s the update on resigning Zito??? LOL!!~ Double LOL!!!

carmot

I hardly can perceive who our trade target would be for LF or as a LF platoon partner (with Blanco). All I come up with is MIL as a very real option.

MIL has Braun returning to LF, Gomez in CF, and Aoki in RF. Khris Davis, Caleb Gindl, and Logan Schafer as depth. Serviceable OF prospect Kentrail Davis at the ready too. I’d venture Khris Davis. How much do we like him?

Easy now my son is a UCSB grad. I’d hate to think he went there to party.

ClutchUp

He’ll be with the LA Angels…

ClutchUp

Well ….

Bapah

His house was on that street right on the beach, can’t remember what it was called. There was talk of the occasional street party and carrying your beer mug upside down.

Bapah

Did you carry your mug upside down?

carmot

Not San Diego? You mean our batters won’t have a chance to face him several times each year? We won’t get to see Lincecum pitching to Zito? But, c’mon, that’d be a hoot.

Bapah

He wants to drive to work from home.

DrLefty

My daughter got into UCSB but went to Cal instead. I lwas dying: “Look, Lefty Jr.,” I’d say, pulling up the web site. “You could roll out of bed and be RIGHT AT THE BEACH.” (Davis is charming but ocean-challenged.)

I’ll admit to a bit of self-interest. UCSB offered her money, and Cal just let her in. Still–I wished I could take her scholarship and go there myself.

Bapah

Er me too. Would we have graduated though?

carmot

I’d have to think it would depend on Vargas. I can’t see LAA having three LHP’s in their rotation. Maybe Z is their fall back plan if they can’t retain Vargas?

Bapah

DP, that’s it.

Foothills Ryan

Nice work Carm. A guy like Khris Davis is exactly the type of guy Sabes should be targeting. Not a big name, but a young guy with some tools, a little bit of pop and nice minor league pedigree, but is totally major league ready and somewhat blocked at the big league level. Trade pitching for a guy like that. Blackburn? Maybe the cost is Escobar? Good work though. Hope you’ve texted Sabes.

Anti-Lasorda

Swapping Huddy for Zito helps, but you need to do more than improve the #5 over Vogey for under $10Mand swapping out Torres for Perez……

Right now, thats where were at going into the Winter meetings.

SO, all the quick and early hay has been good, but this off season will really be judged on what Sabean gets for LF and if and how he unloads Pablo…..

ClutchUp

Zeets and Arte are fast friends

ClutchUp

Let Ishiro finish his career here with another adoring Japanese fan base. Life is stranger than fiction.

Ishiro in LF. Boom!

carmot

Um, thanks. But his pops is a Dodgers scout. And I’m really on the side of scouts that question how well his potential can translate when I see his swing. Granted, he’s done it all at each level, so there’s that.

I don’t think they have any sort of LH starter option. They’d want Escobar, but I’d say that won’t happen. We’ve read Sabean’s comments, I think he’s being groomed for the Giants rotation. I doubt Khris is worth as much as Blackburn. YMMV.

Foothills Ryan

Of course it won’t happen, but it’s fun to dream moderately.

Foothills Ryan

Still a Yankee. Konichiwa!

Anti-Lasorda

Right idea, wrong guy.

Pablo to the Yanks for Slade Heatcott and Brett Gardner…. immediate and long term OF solution

Foothills Ryan

That’s interesting. Gardner is kind of like Gregor Blanco-Plus.

Foothills Ryan

Nice walk rate in minors. Strong ISO. My kind of guy.

The Oracle

I’m definitely a fan of Alex’s work, but the idea that a starter’s win total is a “nearly meaningless stat” is ridiculous. The number of wins certainly doesn’t tell the whole story, but it definitely says something about what a pitcher has done for his team. The ability to pitch to the score and keep your team ahead is definitely significant.

channelclemente

Maybe it’s just and average team?

channelclemente

No, they carried Alex in his beer mug, I suspect.

carmot

Want a second lefty in our rotation? That isn’t named Kazmir or Maholm? It appears I’m not the only one thinking this guy could be available: Hector Santiago.

yes, and often the same writers are the ones who then tout the number of times the team has won while a pitcher is starting – witness the Zito “string” two years ago. so, they don’t care when the pitcher actually throws enough innings to qualify for a win, but if the pitcher leaves in the 3rd inning in a game that his teammates win over the remaining 6 innings, that’s significant! journalism majors: weak at math and logic.

It sounds like the second lefty in the rotation is going to be Edwin Escobar. I predict they sign Vogelsong to a modest one-year deal. If he falters and Escobar is developing well, he could be in the majors before 2014 is over, with Vogey to the pen.

Crazy8

My sense is that writers use stats to push whatever narrative they feel will get people to read there product, or whatever the team wants to push out there. If Matt Cain starts the year 10-0 with a 3.95 ERA we’ll be reading stories about how its all about “giving your team a chance to win” and should start the all-star game. If he goes 5-7 with a 1.20 ERA we’ll be reading about how the Win stat is dead.

Foothills Ryan

Don’t think Blanco fits within Cameron’s parameters. He’s certainly no Jacoby Ellsbury or Marquis Grissom. Aaron Rowand made the cut. How about that?

DrLefty

I majored in my social life as an undergrad. I’m not quite sure how I ended up with graduate degrees. If they’d had social media back then, forget it.

Foothills Ryan

How about Dubrount for the other Sox? I assume you’re thinking returns on Pablo. Santiago looked pretty good against the A’s last year. I think low 90’s fastball.

DrLefty

Beltran wants to get into the Hall of Fame. Mr. L says he’d give Beltran 3/$48 and the heck with the draft pick.

Foothills Ryan

They can certainly use the Vogey/Petit tandem to bridge to the young lefties. If they sign Vogey, he’s going to have to battle it out with Petit, and frankly, Petit looked better than Vogey did at any point last year. Also worth noting (tip of the cap to VGF), Escobar will be on an innings limit that may top out around 150-160.

DrLefty

I’m down with putting the money into the pitching. Sign Lopez. Get that fifth starter. Then get a veteran righty for the bullpen. A good one, not Moscoso or Ramirez or Rosario.

There are eight free agents who had 20+ saves in 2013, and there’s Brian Wilson. I doubt there are nine great closer jobs for them. Get Joe Nathan for a year. Yeah, he’s 39, but he’s still decent. He can be a bridge to Law/Hall/Bandilla/Osich, etc.

A proven good back-end reliever to back up Romo and take the pressure off Hembree. Bullpen is:

Romo
Lopez
Casilla
Affleldt
Hembree
Veteran closer
Petit (long man)

DrLefty

Great job, Lefty. That’s a kick-a** bullpen!

Moooooooooose

Given that in today’s game, even the best of pitchers have to rely on the bullpen almost every time to deliver the win, the stat is hardly an indicator of what a pitcher has done.

Anti-Lasorda

If Gardner falters, or Blanco over performs hes the RH of the platoon worst case. Heathcott is a B+ OF prospect and very toolsy. Was an A- 2 years ago but dealing with injuries has slowed him.

You can pick a different prospect, but Cashmans willingness and urgency hinge on his number 13 being suspended…

DrLefty

Indians just signed David Murphy to a two-year deal. Drew Stubbs could be non-tendered.

Right-handed, plus defender. Sounds like a platoon partner for Blanco.

Stubbs, Raj Davis, Chris Young. If Sabes doesn’t make some kind of trade, it will be someone like that.

408 svl

he,he,he…

carmot

An interesting option I’ll opine. lol. They’ve got Bourn & Brantley & Raburn (and Swish), right? Sandoval would be an upgrade over Chisenhall, I think they’ve nearly counted to three on him & his “potential.” I really like Stubbs being in the mix for that spot.

Guest

I’m going to say Davis because he’s better than Stubbs at the dish and I don’t think Chris Young wants any part of a platoon. He’ll want a one year deal to start in a band box like Houston.

Foothills Ryan

I am going to say Davis because he’s better than Stubbs at the dish and I
don’t think Chris Young wants any part of a platoon. He’ll want a one
year deal to start in a band box like Houston.

Foothills Ryan

Stubbs’ K rate is horrendous

carmot

Just the mere fact that CY contacted HOU is telling. Wants to be at home. AND wants starting time maybe most of all. Yeah. If not there in HOU, somewhere else.

Vegas Giants Fan

I’ve always liked Stubbs. Often wondered if/when
he would put it all together. If a platoon is inevitable I wouldn’t mind him being part of it.

Foothills Ryan

Don’t think Romo wants to relinquish the dooties.

408 svl

one more SP. a LEFT FIELDER. and maybe another arm in the BULLPEN. and that’s it. we will have a good THANKSGIVING and CHRISTMAS. and we see them next year.

carmot

Bench! Depth! I hope each of these needs is addressed. What we got so far is good, our next 2-3 signings will be the most telling.

carmot

True. But we’ve gotta be real here, Footy. They’ll have a flaw(s), otherwise they wouldn’t be stuck into no platoon. Neh? His platoon splits would look pretty shiny IMO.

I doubt the Yanks would trade Gardner for Pablo straight up. If I were them, I wouldn’t.

carmot

Thanks pac for the h/u. Footy beat me to it. Saw it on Cotillo’s RT:

Josh Johnson goes to the #Padres on a one-year, $8 million deal, according to @jcrasnick

pacman68

ESPN 8 mill .. 1 year.

pacman68

That stinks .. I wanted Johnson.

carmot

I’d like a Nathan return, but I figure DET has the inside track on him- with Weezy as their back-up plan. DET might even need to go 2 years to sign Nathan, and I think they would (maybe 2/17M?).

carmot

Me too. If we got beat out by the Padres, I want to expect we’ve got a larger plan in the works. C’mon, 1/8 mil? I’ll guess it wasn’t that.

Vegas Giants Fan

Stubbs career splits:

vs. LHP – .292/.368/.440/.880 – BABIP .395

vs. RHP – .212/.280/.326/.606 – BABIP .295

From SB Nation: Let’s Go Tribe.

Stubbs has very good speed, which he’s used to average 29 bases a year between 2010 and 2013, with a very good 82% success rate. He’s also very good at taking the extra base, and rates as one of the five best base runners in baseball over those four seasons. He also has solid power for a player with that kind of speed, averaging 15 home runs.

Anti-Lasorda

Above average defense, below average qb

carmot

I know many have heard this conversation brought up before, but it seems to be recurring: Jocketty says Votto walks too much. The Reds are the new Phils. Toast.

Deadline is tomorrow. The Rule 5 draft takes place during the Winter Meetings.

DrLefty

Machi, Kontos, Dunning–they’re in Fresno for emergencies. Mijares is a non-tender. Buh-bye.

What about Moscoso and Rosario? At some point they have to free up some 40-man space, right?

carmot

Yeah, that’s my point. Get something before we might lose them for nothing.

Foothills Ryan

Machi has the tools to get big league hitters out – namely the splitter. Kontos ain’t bad. Wasn’t he part of the 2012 Champs? So he’s got that going for him.

Vegas Giants Fan

There’s articles on just about every team’s Rule 5 Draft roster decisions.

carmot

I know Dunning & Rosario have walk rates that are too high. But please don’t get rid of Rosario! I love his stuff, when he’s dealing 94+ mph. It doesn’t seem as much mechanics, maybe it’s just gaining a little more confidence to throw strikes aggressively?

I can see Rosario’s ceiling as an 8th inning set-up arm, maybe 70 IP/season. A possible mainstay on the cheap for years yet.

DrLefty

I said Fresno, not Mars. I’d just like to see some upgrading. The bullpen was pretty awful in 2013. I’d rather the likes of Machi and Kontos be Plan B, not Plan A.

DrLefty

I thought Rosario was surprisingly good, too. Dunning can go back to Fresno. I saw him give up a grand slam in Game 162, so maybe I’m a bit sour on him at the moment. That was his SECOND grand slam.

I also had the misfortune of being in Yankee Stadium when Kontos served up that (record-breaking) grand slam to Arod.

I want an upgrade!

Vegas Giants Fan

The tender deadline is December 2. That could be when we see the Giants make a move on an outfielder.

carmot

I’ve seriously been wondering about the fireman role. Getting our pitching minds to find THAT arm… Who deals 92+ mph, can’t get past 4 innings/start. Maybe he of a 4.80+ ERA. Get him pitching 3-4 innings as our long relief twice every 8 days or so.

Almost a guy like Pelfry. Like Gaudin was in 2013 for us. Couldn’t he be worth $6-8M in that role, where as a starter he’s bottom of the barrel, averaging 140 IP/season?

DrLefty

Is there any place to find out which minor leaguers have to be added to the 40-man or be exposed to Rule 5?

Counting Tim Hudson (but not Javi Lopez), the Giants have 37 on their 40-man roster.

I’ve heard Gary Brown, Adam Duvall, and Kendry Flores are among those the Giants would have to add. I figure Flores is a keeper, right? What will happen to Brown and Duvall? Are there others?

Vegas Giants Fan

Here’s a partial list of Giant minor league players eligible for the Rule 5 Draft.

This is the last time I will bring this up. But you know how you reshape your pitching staff? Don’t trade your number 1 minor league arm for a rental.

BETTER GET A LEFT FIELDER, CLOSER AND ANOTHER ARM BRIAN ARE GET USE TO 3RD PLACE.

Hopper15

As long as he doesn’t make the same mistake with Crick and Escobar we should be fine.

Sonia H

Jean Machi is in Venezuela right now. He is closing for Magallanes (Pablo’s team) and not doing very good. His ERA is 4.26 in 5 games.

The Oracle

Didn’t a decision have to be made about Brett Pill? Has it been made? He doesn’t show up on the free agent list.

Foothills Ryan

He’s on the roster, he’s on the team, he just can’t be optioned to AAA without passing through waivers. At least I’m pretty sure that’s what the case is. It’s hard to keep up. Somehow Adrianza is also out of options even though he just had a cup of coffee last year. Our mileage may vary.

Foothills Ryan

Keep Brown, Duval, Galindo, Dominguez, maybe Runzler if there’s room. How many spots we got? The others should be safe. It’s gambling time anyways.

DrLefty

Thanks!

WillieMaysField

Nathan turned down a 9.5m player option with Texas. He probably will get a little more 2 for 22m.

Bapah

How about Verducci suggesting Nate for the left field at ATT?

Foothills Ryan

Okay, so maybe the Giants will come out smelling like roses for not inking JJ. They must know something the hopeful/wishful/MRI ignorant set doesn’t.

So the new roster meme from me is that the Giants do bring back Vogelsong. And he’s leaf blower angry, but ready to compete with Yusmeiro Petit for the #5 spot. Petit wins this battle with better pitching in spring as he did at the end of last year. Nice numbers in a small sample size, Petit deserves a shot and head to head with Vogey would give him more than a fightin’ chance.

Well that came out of right field. He may be smacking them for Arizona (with a low OBP). Nothin’ like the smell of napalm or rosterbatin’ with Bapah in the morning.

DrLefty

I think it’s Vogelsong, too. Arroyo will probably get at least three years, and they don’t need a fifth starter locked up for three years. That would leave no rotation spots open until 2016 (after Tim-Squared are done), and with all those young arms, you’d think they’d want to leave some space.

Foothills Ryan

Agreed. I might throw pacman’s TV if they blow a big wad on Arroyo. Save the money for a rainy day – if it will ever rain in CA again. Did you guys get any last night, this AM ?

DrLefty

Just for the sake of discussion–Nate’s a superb right fielder, and AT & T has a tough RF. Would it make more sense to put Pence in LF if we had Nate back?

DrLefty

Definitely last night. It’s not raining right now, though.

Bapah

Here’s my concern with Vogey. Personally, I think Vogey would be a terrific long man. My concern is how does he handle not knowing when he is going to pitch? I think it might be refreshing to take his chicken enchiladas away and let him prepare more normally. When routines get that close to “pathological”, it might be wise to shake things up and make him get ready like normal pitchers. I’ve thought, for some time that he’s a little too tightly wound and now might be the time to test his ability to be flexible. To have to be ready anytime might be just what he needs.

DrLefty

OK, time for math. The current 40-man roster, including Hudson, is at 37. They will need a spot for Lopez and the fifth starter. So just one spot.

Of the minor leaguers listed above, I think they protect Flores, Galindo and Arnold for sure. The maybes are Brown, Duvall, and Casilla. (Marte had a nice year for SJ, but he’s 25, undersized, and way, way down the depth chart for starters.)

If they kept all of them, they’d need five new spots + the one already open. Are there five players on the 40-man we’re willing to say goodbye to?

So would you keep all six of those minor leaguers? If so, which five from the current 40-man would you cut loose?

Bapah

Monell and Nooner should stay. Who knows?

Foothills Ryan

Mijares !

They have to do their calculations about which player another team is likely to nab and put on their 40 man. Not Flores or Arnold. Perhaps just protect the two they think would be most coveted.

Bapah

One other thing. The above mentioned Long relief option might have been at the heart of why his option wasn’t picked up. Just a guess.

DrLefty

You should check out Flores’s 2013 stats for Augusta. And he’s only 21 years old. Can’t believe they’ll just put him at risk. Big bag of buttered popcorn says he’s on the 40-man roster by tonight.

DrLefty

Noonan could be expendable. He wasn’t impressive at all in the majors this year, and they’re deep in utility infield types with Arias, Abreu, Adrianza, and first-rounder Panik getting close.

Monell is tougher because catchers are so valuable, but they did just re-sign Quiroz to a minor league deal. I think Monell has made it through Rule 5 before, actually.

Bapah

His price was higher than the 8M until Huddy signed. He might have thought his WC options were sliding after that.

Bapah

This was his 1st year playing with the big club and bigger audience. As you said catchers are quite valuable and not just with the Gs.

Bapah

Noonan, no argument, it’s just with the dearth of position players…

The Oracle

I don’t have access to the vast Carmot Baseball Information Network, but I haven’t read anything, anywhere, about any other team having interest in Vogelsong.

DrLefty

To be specific, Flores made 22 starts for Augusta and led the team in IP, Ks, and WHIP. He was 2nd in ERA to Agosta, who didn’t pitch a full season.

In the Sally League, Flores was fifth in ERA, 2nd in IP, 3rd in Ks, 1st in WHIP. He had 17 BBs and 137 Ks.

That’s a REALLY good year.

The Oracle

I think proposed trades are almost always ridiculous, and I’ve never suggested one. Today, however, I’m throwing out my first ever and giving everyone a chance to take the same shots at mine that I’ve taken at everyone else’s: Sandoval and two of the lesser minor league pitching prospects (anyone but Crick and Escobar) for Homer Bailey and Todd Frazier.

I think everybody in the league, especially the Giants, is waiting to see what Pablo looks like next year, both physically and performance wise, before his value is known.

DrLefty

There was something last week (I think the source was his agent) about other teams having inquired. Buster Olney mentioned him in today’s column–specifically, for teams looking for one-year deals, now that Josh Johnson is off the market. Others in that category were Phil Hughes and Dan Haren.

You know who NEVER gets mentioned anywhere? Barry Zito. You’d think he died or at least announced his retirement.

The Oracle

Even if Sandoval has a great 2014, I wouldn’t re-sign him. I wouldn’t have any faith that he’d maintain a professional level of fitness or consistently put together good seasons, at least when compared to the kind of contract he’s going to get if he does well in 2014.

Bapah

Coming along quite nicely, I’d say.

Bapah

But his potential upside is quite rare in this game.

DrLefty

Numerous reports on Twitter that Javi Lopez has agreed to a 2-year $10 mil. deal with the Giants with a third-year vesting option.

Nicely done, Sabes & Co!

Bapah

Did anyone really doubt where his heart is? He’s way too smart.

Foothills Ryan

Why would Cincinnati do that?

You’re right, fake trade are redonkulous 😉

Foothills Ryan

Thought the AAV was going to tie or surpass Affeldt’s. Nicely done for both parties. Let’s party !

ClutchUp

BINGO

channelclemente

Maybe you should take another look, Blanco is exactly the kind of player they’re trying to create a metric for. Every article isn’t a shoe shine job.

Foothills Ryan

You’re the big Bingo winner Clutch!

Opening day left fielder is __________ ?

Foothills Ryan

Not a hard thrower. I know about the #’s but the projectability isn’t there for someone to expend a rule 5 pick on him.

Remember, I let you have him as your guy for a PTBNL ?

carmot

Sneaky… Is that a trick question, since we’re likely to face a lefty (Miley, Corbin, or Price?!?).

“To restructure this year’s team, I think we have plenty of money to do so. But I don’t know if the outside world is going to be that appetizing. It could be a challenge.” Yet they are not going after Tanaka and are not going to sign a big bat…so what ARE they going to do with the money? Bottom line is signing a 38 year old pitcher and possibly Bronson Arroyo while bringing back Pence, Lincecum and Lopez is not even close to enough to put this team over the top and back as division champs. Rhetoric is useless unless it’s backed up by action and the Giants are simply retaining the same team as last year with small additions, so they can faux contend. This team is not even close to the Dodgers. There is NO reason to take yourself out of the Tanaka bidding, he would be a perfect addition and can serve as part of the 1-2-3 core while the young guys fill in the back end in two years. I’m sure they heard the Yankees are interested and cowered away, and don’t tell me they don’t have the money, they do and some, they just choose not to spend it. Very very disappointing to hear that.

channelclemente

Tanaka is gong to post for $60 MM+, and will cost 60-80. Why would someone ‘race’ for a guy most experts say is at best a #2 and more likely a #3 in the greater scheme of things.

Ken E

He has the makings of a solid #2 and low end comparisons are that of Kuroda, so he’ll probably be in between Kuroda and Darvish which is a damn good pitcher. I believe he’ll be 25 so he’s young and has a solid fastball, plus splitter and above-average to plus slider. He could be a staple in the rotation for the next 5-6 years and with the posting fee and contract cost less than Greinke. Plus the young guys will be cheap when they fill in the rotation in a few years so there is balance cost savings. And plus who said anything about “racing” to sign Tanaka? I just said why take yourself out of it before it even starts? It’s in fact the opposite, don’t “race” to sign a mediocre vet like Arroyo and instead be patient and get involved in the Tanaka bidding.

Keep’n It Real

***off-topic***

Very cool story about Howie Long’s boys squaring off against each other this weekend in the NFL. Howie is even taking Sunday off from the Fox Studio Show.

Jay Z’s power point presentation to the Mets Alderson:
Sandy’s reply: NO

Keep’n It Real

A-Rod apparently walked out of his arbitration hearing.
He was quoted as saying, “I am disgusted with this abusive process, designed to ensure that the player fails.” The arbitrator was agreed to by MLB and the Player’s Association.

channelclemente

So, on something actually interesting. The Phillies have a hole at 3B, and Dominic Brown in LF. What are the odds?

Foothills Ryan

Go Tribe ! It’s like Major League all over again.

ClutchUp

He’s played LF twice in his life. The dreaded culture controls the “he won’t even be asked to move”….

ClutchUp

Get over it. It was the right move AT THAT TIME.

Foothills Ryan

Plan for a contentious battle for second place. Hope for a shot at the Wild Card. Hope the Dodgers’ clubhouse is stricken with bubonic plague.

Just hope for good baseball. Enjoy it on the radio. Enjoy it on TV. Enjoy it with a cold beer. Is it spring time yet?

carmot

You mean “again,” right? I’d have to think part of the motivation comes from Francona knowing Murphy (from BOS, right?). A quote from Terry said something like, he also plays great defense and will be a valuable addition.

Let’s go cherry picking! Reds have dead weight in C Ryan Hanigan (would allow us to trade Sanchez?). Stubbs just got pushed out by David Murphy in CLE. White Sox don’t need Hector Santiago as a 4th lefty in their rotation. With the re-signing of Lopez, I’d call that a pret-ty pret-ty good day.

DrLefty

Bay Area Sports Guy is reporting 3 years, $13 mil. for Lopez.

Keep’n It Real

Tweeted this morning by Wendy Thurm: Even with all this ARod drama, the most absurd baseball story this morning was the idea of the Brewers trading Braun to Mets for Ike Davis.

Ken E

Bottom line is I think he would be a great fit at AT&T and a great #3 starter for years to come behind Cain and Bumgarner. Additionally once the Lincecum and Hudson deals are up the Giants can have a great 1-2-3 punch with possibly Crick and Escobar as the 4-5 to take over the last two spots, which would save about $28 million as Lincecum and Hudson will make a combined $29 million in each of the next two years. I hope you’re right about the Giants not being out of the Tanaka bidding but this quote from Sabean certainly makes me believe otherwise, Masahiro Tanaka? “We’ve pretty much moved past that.”

channelclemente

No, he would be great, I’d agree. Both from a baseball and PR perspective. But with posting fee and contract, he could cost what Cain did. That’s not a very wise decision in my book.

As to Sabean’s quotes, the only one he tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth to is Baer, IMO. IF he’s got the go ahead, Baer would never let it out because of the consequences of being perceived to have underbid for him. Besides that whole posting system is in the wind, and a big fight developing between the big market and small market teams.

carmot

Not sure you (and Bapah) need to continue to take shots at me. Forgive me, I thought this is a Giants blog & community. I come to share in the dialogue. Honestly, if it’s the consensus that I shouldn’t participate here, I’ll leave. Simple as that.

TOR has some rumblings asking if Vogey would be a good fit & value for them. With the way the FA market is shaping up, I doubt we can re-sign Vogey now at $4M-ish. I figure he’s bound to get a 1-year offer at $6.5M+ or 2-year at $12M+.

Sidewinder

So is this pretty much it? The off-season following a 76 win year features signing 38 year old Tim Hudson and re-signing everyone that could be re-signed. I like Hudson and I like Lopez and Lincecum and Pence, but really? Vogelsong will be the cherry on top I suppose.

It just doesn’t sound like the front office is really going for anything but fielding a team that people like. I guess I’m for that to some degree, but c’mon! Make a splash trade or sign Choo and my 2014 hopes will come alive.

channelclemente

Car, not my business, but a shot from TO hurts a lot more than that, speaking from experience.

Bapah

Just stop trying so hard to have the answer to everything.

Sidewinder

Keep your head up buddy. Keep plugging away.

carmot

The math is simple enough IMO. Tanaka will undoubtedly be worth whatever the Yanks will pay. Figure 7 years at 22M for salary = $154M at market rate for a #2 or #3. Subtract out 12.5/yr per 7-years for salary = $87.5M. That subtracts down to a $66.5M posting fee.

Add in that it’s nearly impossible to obtain a 25-year-old pitcher in his prime as a #2-3, w/o MASSIVE secondary compensation. PF doesn’t go to CBT. Easy to see the Yanks “self-justify” a $90M+ PF.

Maybe the Giants don’t like what they’ve learned about the NPB system. I’m reading about “bullpen” sessions that are routinely 200+ pitches, often several consecutive days!

channelclemente

I knew McCutchen was pretty good. But these numbers are just ridiculous. His zone SLG analysis.

Add to your analysis this uncertainty. They are intending to decouple the posting fee from the contract negotiations, and let the contract negotiation float under the watchful eye of sports agents.

carmot

I like the thought. But, forgive me, I don’t get it. The Reds are supposedly still trying to win in 2014. They can’t afford to re-sign Arroyo. They’d want to give up pre-arb Frazier and take on 8.25M on Sandoval AND lose their #3 pitcher? The arms we’re sending them won’t help this year or next, this doesn’t seem to fit a “win now” window, nor a “win later” window.

They need pieces to improve for 2014, or re-tool in 2014. Adding one that brings salary is one thing. Adding arms that help later is a totally different thing. YMMV.

408 svl

that’s why you make sense. i forgot to mention bench! and depth! duh!!!

carmot

If I’m understanding you correctly, I think Boras already “tried” this with Daisuke. He claimed the PF was being considered as part of Dice-K’s total salary, which it IS NOT in any way. And shouldn’t be considered in part.

Eventually BOS caved, after a lawsuit was going to be presented by Boras. Good luck on Ma-kun getting $20M+ AAV salary as he’d figure on an open FA market though.

carmot

That seems really low. Is this a 2-year and the 3rd year buyout added? Geez, I’m cool with it… But 605 batters and only 2 HR’s!? He gets a raise of $8.33K per year?

Maybe all those “terms” they’ve been hammering out are incentives? But thanks for passing this on. Cheers.

carmot

Yeah, I think I read that one. Here’s another, a proposal from SEA that I read. Trade anybody except Walker or Zunino (and Hultzen is hurt).

Franklin, Miller, Capps, and others for both Carlos Gomez AND Kyle Lohse. lol. The best part is “we’d even take Kyle Lohse to give them salary relief.” LOL.

DrLefty

If they’re going to spend big bucks, I’d rather it be on someone like Ellsbury or even Beltran than Tanaka. No question he’d be a great fit, but they now have four legit veteran starters and a bunch of young arms on the way. The money should be allocated elsewhere, IMO.

channelclemente

Car,

no, my point was that MLB is changing the rules, not the agents, as counter intuitive as it may seem.

DrLefty

Five years is a long time. He can learn. Pence strikes me as exactly the kind of team-first guy who would do this, not only without a murmur but with enthusiasm and effort.

Maeda hit 95 mph in August and is working with more weights and gained a bit of weight (for the better, supposedly). Despaigne I wrote about his walk issues before- no thanks. Iglesias I could really like as a reliever, once he’s cleared.

Sorry, Carmot, I didn’t intend that as a shot. I have tweaked you some in the past, but I definitely respect, and am actually amazed by, the amount of research you put into all things baseball.

carmot

Okay, well fair enough. And thanks. Just like others here, I just love The Game. And our Giants especially. I simply try to share some of the research I do (for myself & personal interest), as I enjoy what findings (and opinions) others share here. Yes, I do also share my opinions/ideas, which might not always be popular.

But, I figure *most* have learned to deal with this. Overall, I really think this is a great Giants community. Cheers.

DrLefty

It’s hard to say “this is it” on Nov. 20. They haven’t even had the Winter Meetings yet. No major free agent has signed anywhere yet–I’d say Hudson is the biggest name so far.

Pence would arguably have been one of the top FA outfielders on the market (at least in the top three), and Lopez is the best lefty specialist available. So even if they were already “ours,” they’re still really, really good free agent signings.

channelclemente

I give Sabean a lot of credit over Pence, in that he tied him up, and kept him out of the ‘bidding warfare’.

DrLefty

Maybe the credit actually goes to Larry Baer. Remember he was seen in the clubhouse discussing things with Pence right before he signed–Sabean was in the D.R. scouting Abreu at the time.

Sidewinder

You tell me where you think Sabean will add a piece. He’s written off a number of acquisitions that could help the team in the win column. My grandparents are from Missouri, so I suppose that makes me a “Show Me” kind of guy.

DrLefty

I think he’ll make a trade during the winter meetings that may involve a package including a young catcher (Hector or Susac), a young pitcher, and maybe Adrianza–for a bat (probably an outfielder). I still can’t rule out he’ll trade Sandoval, either.

channelclemente

Could be, who(m)ever it was, i appreciate the foresight.

Bapah

If you’ll recall, Sabean has pulled off some machinations in the past that very few had any clue about. Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger.

carmot

I have to convince myself to “wait it out.” Let’s see if the Train Bust claims there’s no room to sign more improvements after retaining Pence, Timmy, Lopez, and signing Huddy. The next couple moves will be very telling.

I couldn’t stand the “standing pat” last winter. But, by default we’ve already gotten better IMO- we’ve displaced Zito for Hudson, hopefully do at least as well as Vogey as our #5, and kept rivals from getting Lopez (assuming we’ve signed him).

Personally, I’m not for Choo. I understand how others can be. Just not me. YMMV. I’m awaiting this trade, as that seems the market we’re shopping in.

Sidewinder

Hi-Ho Silver ! If he can trade Sandoval for the next Jeff Kent then he belongs in the GM Hall of Fame.

Bapah

Be patient, Grasshopper.

Foothills Ryan

Could be…

Foothills Ryan

I’m impressed. The AAV on the deal is not a raise given the market inflation. Good on Sabes & Co, they read the room and got him back at a fair price for everybody.

Seems like about half the GG awards go to a better bat. Somehow, when you’re a top-tier hitter at the position, your defense automatically gets better. 😉

carmot

Wasn’t it Carlos Gomez? Can’t argue that he was deserving, that kid is a stud. I’ll always wonder if he would’ve been available *IF* Braun’s suspension carried well into 2013. Oh well.

paul in p.v.

so what? snorkel

DrLefty

Say, look: There you go again. You can say Goldschmidt’s a very fine young first baseman without needing to take a shot at Belt. Belt’s good too. Not everyone can be #1.

pacman68

Christmas wish list – Left fielder, another starter, closer. Here is who I would sign if I’m the Giants.

1. Beltran – 2 years
2. Joe Nathan – 1 year
3. Volgie or another starter – 1 year (They should have signed Johnson)

paul in p.v.

GREAT NEWS!!! :o)

paul in p.v.

The Gints showed a lot of faith with 3-yrs. guaranteed. Old Leftys last forever. :o)

channelclemente

Old Leftys with 85 MPH funky deliver FBs, particularly

carmot

I’m actually *kinda* getting past [he-that-I-shall-not-name]. Maybe it was having our Ring Ceremony with him across the field? lol. Or wait, this year’s post-season? lol. Still, I’d wash my hands of him. Let the mercenary chase his dream at someone other teams’ expense.

The Oracle

Foothills has been a little bitter ever since Belt never made it onto bus back to Fresno.

paul in p.v.

Poor baby.

Foothills Ryan

he he he he …

ClutchUp

#1’s SHIP has sailed + he won’t play LF
#2 is not coming back here
#3 You hit gold

Josh Joshson’s injuries are worse than Haren

Foothills Ryan

Fielding Bible more reliable.

E-B

hey hey Carm…

u beat me to it, as usual!

actually, I really pity him in lotsa ways…cuz dang, sure seems like the harder he tries (to calculate the ‘best’ team for a ring), somehow, he falls short.

i won’t say it, cuz already been said, but maybe (bad) luck’s gots lots to do w/ this guy. dunno.

i would think though, selfishness is a problem, and gives off negative vibes.

ClutchUp

Footy secretly adores Haylee Belt

Foothills Ryan

Great post Ryan! Thumbs way up ! Comparing our 2009 fifth rounder to their 2009 eight rounder. They can’t all be Paul Goldschidt though. If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with !

ClutchUp

Committed to Clint Hurdle. Loves city of …

E-B

OK! Clutch has called it on Vogey!

man, you’d be 3 for 3 this offseason if they ink a deal.

actually, i do think after they signed Huddy & Lopie…they’re leaving the door open for Vogey (and haven’t really seemed to go after the other FA SP’s that much so far). this is prolly where their loyalty to him is a big factor, bcuz honestly, he was not right all year, even b4 the hand injury.

ClutchUp

Only Ricky gets to talk in the 3rd person unless you’d like to be David Hasselhoff instead :-/

Could be true. I think he was playing messenger of “how much we love you”

Foothills Ryan

Who’s bashin’? Belt does need to pick it up with the leather in 2014 – like the other Brandon. They have reputations to uphold and runs to prevent.

carmot

I honestly question whether we could’ve won in 2012 WITH him. Maybe that’s all personal bias, maybe partly after-the-fact (of him leaving). But seriously? I’m not sure we would’ve.

But hey, thanks CB for coming to our Ring Ceremony!

Foothills Ryan

Is that you Surf City? Remember when Belt was mired in an awful slump in 2012 (or was it ’11)? And it looked like he could use some regular AB’s in Fresno. Well that didn’t happen and he figured it out. The rest is history.

you don’t really believe that Sabes EVER shows his real cards, do you?

don’t assume SFG are not in on Tanaka, or any other FA out there.

i kinda like it that way, for my team’s sake.
they are good soldiers who are doing what they hafta to compete.

ClutchUp

What are you growin in the Hills?

ClutchUp

No way she could pull that off on Disqus …

paul in p.v.

Cool. Did that get him a Gold Glove? ;o)

carmot

GM’s surveyed are supposedly feeling Ellsbury gets around 6/$140M.

Now, if that falls flat like 4-day-old ginger ale (or Lohse or Bourn)… Who’s in if his value drops below 6/$125M?

E-B

wouldn’t be surprised at all.

Gomez was CF, gapLF, and gapRF, all in one.

tremendous tremendous talent.

(also, sure was a thrill to watch Timmy mow down that l/u)

Vegas Giants Fan

I talk to people from Brazil almost every day at work. Most are not happy with with their governments allocation of funds towards stadium construction. They believe the money could be used for other, more important things.

ClutchUp

…the rest is history for US but you’ve scrambled your marbles thinking BB9 is your 5 yr old idol Wes Parker from the blue&whites.

carmot

Not sure if Juan Perez is an inspired fan of Gomez or loathes him for great defensive play at AT&T. Maybe both?

Foothills Ryan

Serious Belt discussion time…

Big year for him. He is slotted to be the #3 hitter after all. I felt like the defense was a bit of a let down from him last year, as it was with Crawford. This is not a legitimate concern however. They should both be top tier defenders in 2014.

As for Belt’s bat, I’d say if he more or less repeats last year’s line to a tune of .280/.360/.470 and knocks in 80-90 runs, the Giants offense will be in a good position.

No more batting eighth and sitting against tough lefties. 2014 is kind of nut up or shut up time. The success of the team depends on a solid year from Belt. No pressure though. But it would be nice if there was a bat in LF to relieve some of the pressure.

Cheers, mates !

E-B

yah…i’m actually surprised that it’s lower than i thought…

but hey, at least Lopie got his day in the sun to test the FA market, if only for a few weeks.

sure made me uncomfortable hearing all these reports of “mutual interest” was WAS, NYY, etc…
but alas, it was playin the game.

some folks downplay ‘chemistry’, but on team sports, i think it has alot to do w/ 25 guys playing as 1.

Foothills Ryan

Hi Michael. Oh man, JFK overload. Some interesting biographies coming out. He really was in bad shape physically when he started in politics. Quite a story of perseverance.

carmot

That all might be well and good… But they already both know the Buccos aren’t paying up. The difference between $9M and $15M is quite significant walking around money going into retirement. Oh, and he’d be a KEY acquisition in our chance to earn another ring!

E-B

Foooty….

now don’t get defensive about the ring jab…

i hadda jerk your chain, cuz you did the same to Lefty, et al., w/ your Belt jab.

so, are we all square now?

carmot

“the ring count argument is a cop out in any baseball discussion”

Ummm, you sure about that? I kinda like The Ring Count. I sorta REALLY kinda like The Ring Count. lol.

channelclemente

From what BC says, he reacts to the pitch to make up, IMO, for his lack of foot speed. Guys who’s pitches are familiar to him are a big positive, new guys on the staff may be a hill he’s got to climb. I will say, a sinker baller like Hudson drives a lot of topspin GB, so Crawford’s willingness to rush the ball, and short hop it may be a positive for him.

Foothills Ryan

you got me Square (draws a circle)

but don’t you agree about the QED ring count statements? A little? Melky Cabrera has a ring, right?

Foothills Ryan

then count up the rings of all the marginal players in the world. George Kontos has a ring.

Michael Scott

The shutting up on Belt needs to start with Bochy and Sabean. And please-we don’t need to hear about the 17th helpful batting hint from Heloise that he chose to ignore. He’s an incredible asset either here or as the *only* trade chip who could be the centerpiece of a trade that would be a true difference maker…

Foothills Ryan

Wait, hasn’t he had the habit of waiting back instead of charging. We need Mavo to weigh in. Paging Mavo…

E-B

ok Footy!

you’re a good man to call things square.

your point on rings is well taken, as is Lefty’s point that taking a jab at our own BB9 has no place in announcing Goldy’s FB award.

and Carmot, you must type 200wpm…(cuz i kant keep up w/ you at 120wpm! more power to ya bro’!)

E-B

hey Footy…now doncha be raggin on our resident enthusiastic researcher on this blog!

Sidewinder

I agree with the statement about Belt being the only legit trade chip. Makes sense that they would move him for a left fielder and give Posey first at some point in time.

Good stuff. I was in 12th grade Latin class trying to understand why in the hell Horatio had to get on that damn bridge and then tell us all about it. When the announcement came over that big box on the wall PA system, I was in the 4th desk back, center isle, right hand raised to ask a question. The rest of the day is honestly a mystery to me. I do remember that people, that day, eventually, just needed to talk..especially the adults. I was in a EC Russian class that afternoon, and the teacher in that class (who everybody revered as a mountain climber), just started to ramble in a stream of consciousness monologue about his days in the OSS and parachuting into Germany in the spring of 1945. He’d tear up every now and then as he talked. It was like he needed to confess and clear his conscience. It was a very weird day.

E-B

Michael, glad to see you back on the blog.

always enjoyed your incisive, no-nonsense posts, full of some very deep baseball knowledge.

totally agree w/ you about Belt. The scouts couldn’t stop raving about him this year. I believe they said he probably has the fastest bat speed of anyone in the NL. Seriously.

Add his discerning eye at the plate, and the sky’s the limit.

I’m looking forward to seeing him blossom into a very special player.

(and I don’t want SFG to trade him)

Michael Scott

Well, did you read my post are you just going to b***h? It’s good. Better than most.

Sidewinder

Goldschmidt is a stud. More than just a bat for sure. It’s too bad for Arizona they don’t have much else around him.

E-B

yup…but are any of them 1B?
i thought we were talkin 1B.
right?

channelclemente

Not on the top spin ones. He’ll read the pitch, and lay back on others, but he seems to short hop those he picks up the overspin on.

carmot

Sorry? I was responding in kind to Footy’s remarks about marginal players and “ring count being a cop out.” I guess it started on 1B, but Who’s still on first?

E-B

; ) !

Sidewinder

Hey bud, you’re 2 days early on this.

channelclemente

I “almost” emailed it on to the Pulitzer folks, but they wanted a credit card number. Want to give me yours?

Michael Scott

As the indentation might indicate and the > pointing to Foots, The question about actually reading the post was for him.

Michael Scott

You mean like the entire national and social media? Thanks, pal.

channelclemente

I know, my man, you thought I was kidding. You brought a tear to my eye.

I was beginning to buy into the recent re-hashings of the assassination, but then I saw film footage of the detail chief call the two bumper riders off the back of the limo before the turn down in front of the Depository. Both agents threw their hands up in the air. A gesture of WTF is going on? It had been edited OUT of all other versions of the film footage. They almost had me convinced. No way, and I mean No Way, the kill-shot could have been made if they were riding on the bumper, as is usual.

Guest

An “F” For Footy’s Failed Logic:

“Because I can find players who didn’t play much but got a ring, that means that rings earned by the contributing players mean nothing.”

Michael Scott

Sorry, I was too sensitive. I just thought it was a nice post. I was proud of it. BTW, I checked- there have been almost as many words on that day as there have been about Brandon Belt’s swing hole..

channelclemente

There is just no trust in this world!

All kidding aside, since I heard Robin MacNeil and Jim Lehrer this AM talking about the strange day it was. Apparently Lehrer may have bumped into Oswald as he ran back into the book depository to find a phone to call the story in to his newspaper. To add to it, when he was at the show and tell with Oswald and the media before he was shot, he sat next to Jack Ruby.

ClutchUp

It wasn’t only Lee Harvey …

ClutchUp

Where’s Wisdom Cow …

channelclemente

Now I’m LOL. Hang a while before you go back to your misogynistic stomping grounds.

channelclemente

Rewriting his mystical acceptance speech for St. Peter.

ClutchUp

Amen brother!

Vegas Giants Fan

Chris Carpenter informs Cards of his decision to retire.

ClutchUp

People have cabin fever and Footy had him on the Fresno bus so many times that he ended up buying the bus. Belt HAD success doing it his (over-grip-high-back-elbow-too far up in the box) WAY but when the Giants baseball people saw that his success could be doubled by getting the bat OUT of the webbing/palm and into his fingers + standing on the back line = BB9 resisted as would EVERYONE who had success doing it their way. His HS coach did not change him Hell Auggie Garrido didn’t change him, lower minors didn’t change him etc. What happened along the journey was it got TOO much pub based on all the god-awful media avenues. Nothing Belt did along the way surprised me. We all would have resisted TOO if nobody had suggested it UNTIL he got to the Show…

Michael Scott

I was trying to focus on the day. The conspiracy theories came later.No one gave it thought in the moment.

channelclemente

There is only one hole left, it is physically impossible to fire two shots from a from a bolt action 6.5 mm Carcano in 1.96 seconds, especially one that is scope equipped. How they explain that one, I’ll never know. Someone will, I’m sure though.

As someone who like a funky delivery, I am happy that Javier Lopez is coming back aboard. The price seems right also. I was worried he was going to hold Sabean up at gunpoint. If Bochy has weapons to manage with, he’s a good manager. An extra bullpen piece would be a nice add, but I think they have enough arms in the system to get the job done. I’ve been hearing amazing things about this kid Derek Law. Hembree looked real good in his audition and then there’s a fast riser named Cody Hall.

I’m taking a “leave of absence” from BF’s blog. Deal with more heath issues, enjoy the fall weather ( nice timing on THAT), chat a little bit on my blog, etc. On the misogynistic bent there, I don’t like it.

ClutchUp

Thanks VGF. Had no access.

channelclemente

I know. I’ve read over the years your ‘articulate commentary’ on BF demeanor about women. I take it your musing on 11-22-63 is to be your blog address?

Hope you stay well, my friend.

carmot

We’re you able to watch the video in the link I provided for Raciel Iglesias? He’s fights a bit of wildness, I’d guess it has to do with his arm slot going all over the place. He gets to nearly sidearm at times, a “loose” arm to be sure.

I can’t find reports of his velo, but it sure looks like he’s poppin’ 93-94 mph to my eyes. You like funky? So, do you like this guy?

I’d say it’s about time we test our “value” to FA pitchers. We’ve built incredible arms, salvaged others, revived others, made some serviceable when cast-off by other teams. Iglesias should WANT to sign here in SF, right?

Sign him for 5-years? I’d say make that arb-3 year negotiable, maybe remove it? 1.5M 1st yr, 2.25M for years 2-5. 5/$11M. Deal?!

Foothills Ryan

What are your thoughts on Gordon Beckham? 😉 Kind of fun to have your sassy ways back in the house. Wishing you better health ahead. Women rule! Especially the Amazonians.

Michael Scott

Thanks. Enjoy your comments as well. I don’t want him traded, I just see him as the guy who might bring us the best return. If they really want a power hitting LFer, they’ll have to trade for him- and there are good first basemen available in FAgency. I’ve mentioned Belt/Romo/?( maybe Blach) for Adam Jones and pick up Kendrys Morales. Add Arroyo to the rotation and that’s a ‘contendah”…

Foothills Ryan

Giants may still be in on Arroyo which seems a little nutty given the price, his crafty nature and the potential block it puts on the farm hands in 2015. It’s the gist of what Evans told Bowden about Arroyo anyways.

carmot

Is anybody else even a little bit concerned that we’ve been reading Lopez is “close” to re-signing for over 24 hours now, and an ACTUAL report is still not forthcoming? Is there a snag? Or what? Uh-oh, WAS is countering again… (?). Or is WAS? Was WAS countering? (what?!) Baggs said a few hours ago, he’s trying to confirm the BASG report…

Michael Scott

Flavor’s a good guy, he’s just young 😉
I enjoy a little man cave humor on occasion myself. But when I think of being intimate, I think of it as “making love”, not “destroying” a woman. Old fashioned in that way, I guess..

Foothills Ryan

Not bad not bad, but that roster got pricey when you subbed Morales for Belt and added Jones and Arroyo. Bullpen got weaker too.

My “trade Belt” fantasy brings back David Price and Ben Zobrist. God only knows who would have to come along with Belt. Probably Crick and Susac.

CL is right according to #15, JJ will supplant 42 and support 53 and YV. BB agrees.

; )

ClutchUp

キャラクターがあるから答えないんじゃないかな 凄い真面目だよ浜ちゃん ?

carmot

Going OT for a sec. I was really hoping to see Cameron Jones get the call-up, since Steph is out and Douglas is still out too. Assigning Nedo & Kuzmic seemed the right thing, I don’t see what the Dubs see in them. Granted, they see them throughout practice/etc. and have boatloads more basketball knowledge than me.

Cameron Jones led the SC Dubs in the final pre-season game with 28 points. I like the kid, he looked smooooth in the limited looks I got of him. Happy to see Dedmon a bit, he will only get better and better.

Beat Memphis. Go Dubs!

carmot

The Amazing Google Translate to the rescue! (you’re welcome people).

Hama It’s amazing serious and I think we do not answer because there is a character

And it is not surprising that by the nature of the competition Hama Esthamo increíble’re heavy and not create y respondemos, porque Hay un personaje

carmot

E-B, lol. You give me too much credit. WAY too much. Even when highly caffeinated, I prolly only go 50 wpm. And still make more errors than Brooks Conrad & Pete Kozma combined. LOL.

Walter Guest

My point is: even though a semi-regular on the blog, I have no idea to whom some of those numbers and initials refer. Way too much insider code here.

DrLefty

I actually thought Pence did a fine job out there, and I believe the metrics support that, too. But Nate really knew how to play RF at AT & T and has that cannon of an arm (“Bang, bang. No running!”).

If we were talking about the next five years–yeah, it might be worth Pence learning left, though I’m sure Nate could play LF, too (he did after the Gs got Beltran). But if RF is the toughest at AT & T and Nate’s the best RF…seems like an easy call.

ClutchUp

I concur. Carmot needs to post his baseball legend of Term abbreviations.

channelclemente

What about Inuit?

Hopper15

Fielder for Kinsler. wow

carmot

I’m sorry. I’ll try to be clearer. Like proper grammar usage, I usually try to use a full name once before referring to any initials (like Josh Johnson = JJ) or will only use that in a conversation specific to him.

I’ve looked through my comments, here are the most common I use, if this helps? Mostly, my abbreviations are three letter designations widely used for Major League Baseball (MLB) teams.

Sounds like Detroit is planning to put Castellanos at third and move Miggy back to first. With Iglesias at SS and Kinsler at 2B, they suddenly go from a very bad infield to a very good one. AND they free up money to extend Scherzer and buy a bullpen.

Meanwhile, Texas gets a power-hitting lefty who should hit well in that park–and frees up a spot for Profar. Unclogs their logjam and keeps Andrus and Profar.

Win-win, I guess–but I still can’t believe Detroit actually got someone to take Prince and that monster contract. It reminds me of that monster trade Boston did with the Dodgers–a do-over for them.

408 svl

he,he.he…

DrLefty

They are. I have a very good friend who’s a Tiger fan (my editor at U. of Michigan Press), and I can assure you they are dancing in the streets.

ClutchUp

Will his fly balls leave the field easier in Texas?

ClutchUp

Love Bill Campbell

carmot

As usual, I agree with all of your reasoning here (including Castellanos at 3B). I just want to see Giants solutions, you know? Prince will be finding HR’s again in Arlington. It sure does extend Detroit’s window, with financial flexibility. DET closer: Nathan, Wilson or Balfour?

I can actually see a *massive* backlash from this. LAA (in response) might go all-in now if Tanaka still gets posted. Maybe 2nd bid- higher than the Dodgers even. The Angels are already so invested, might as well push for it all now.

I guess TEX might be tired of missing out (except on Darvish). Hamilton left (good for them), Dempster, Greinke, Uehara.

If Huddy gets into a conversation with Madbum and even Belt – one better LISTEN close. Southern inflection for sure.

Foothills Ryan

I’m picturing the Van Halen version of “Dancing in the Streets”.

carmot

Regarding the Fielder for Kinsler deal… Do we not have top negotiators in our Giants front office? Vernon Wells got moved TWICE with his bad contract, Soriano got traded, Rios got traded. Now Fielder. Why couldn’t we have moved Zito? Or Rowand?

Oh snap, I’m just kidding… (Here comes all the “Zito won us the 2012 World Series” bombardment all over again).

Foothills Ryan

Nice wrap up. Much more succinct than an MLBTR link.

Is that right? ‘an’ before the “em”.

ClutchUp

As you know Sandoval will be a lock in San Francisco…maybe even after 2014…he’s homegrown and a middle of the lineup hitter. YES he needs to conquer one of his demons, but he has others: Strike zone discipline – Tracking the ball as soon as possible and possibly getting Lasik 2.0 or 3.0

Foothills Ryan

from doctor Scott Hybender or something …

Master Lock or just lock?

Foothills Ryan

2 rings !

They matched up perfectly! Bold move though.

Foothills Ryan

Brandon Belt>Prince Fielder

carmot

Okay, so now that Crazy Trade Season is in-session. Who would want Kemp? He’s said that if he’s traded he’d like to go to a winner, methinks winning 2-in-4 years applies to us. *LOL*.

If my math serves, we had 37 players on our roster. Moscoso was DFA’d. That left 4 spots. Gary Brown, Hunter Strickland, Adam Duvall, and Kendry Flores got protected. 40-man roster is all full up.

So, the likely DFA moves are Mijares & Noonan when we sign Lopez and a #5. Still really unsure what happens to Adrianza, Peguero & Pill (all out of options)? And Kieschnick?

Right now it doesn’t appear we’re leaving a spot or two for a Rule 5 pick-up. I’m looking around and it seems a LOT of teams are filled up at 40-men. There could be a good pick out there, if we can fit him on our 25-man. Not sure yet. Looks like the A’s didn’t protect 3B Miles Head.

————

Oh, and there’s this for any who missed Baggs “chat.”

Q: The Giants declined paying Vogey $6.5M, what number do you think they’d be comfortable with?

A: I heard it was something like 2 with incentives that could take it to 5. If that’s the case, that’s way lowballing the guy.

Sounds to me like buh-bye Vogey. I wouldn’t put up with that if I were him, $2 million base? Insulting. KC, MIN, CLE, NYM, LAA, MIL, or maybe SEA would offer at least 2/$10M I’ll venture.

DrLefty

The Dodgers don’t do no-trades. Like another fabulous organization, the Marlins.

Foothills Ryan

I owe Lefty some popcorn. Somebody is exposed. Where’s that list again?

ClutchUp

Combo lock …depends on the ‘numbers’

Foothills Ryan

Jesus Galindo is exposed. Chris Dominguez. Somebody else that could get snatched that I thought they’d protect over Flores. Hunter Strickland is not someone we talk much about.

carmot

Fast way I find is to do a browser “word search.” Use VGF’s spelling of “Duval,” it’s only used once on this page I think.

Add Strickland, Jarrett Parker, and Carter Jurica as Rule 5 eligibles. I guess the others are young enough that our Train Bust is expecting teams like HOU & MIA to not use a roster space on them all year. But for Marte, Bochy, or Galindo?

DrLefty

He was an outstanding closer for San Jose early this season but went down in May and had TJ surgery. Wow, they must really like him, because it seems unlikely he’d be grabbed in Rule 5 right now.

DrLefty

Told ya. Flores’s stats were fantastic this year.

Surprised about Galindo, though. 48 SBs for Augusta & promoted to SJ late in the year; even started a couple of playoff games for them.

DrLefty

Dominguez was exposed last year, too.

carmot

You’re referring to Strickland, right? I’m piecing together tweets from Alex, Schulman, and some tidbits. Sounds like some thought Hunter would reach the majors by 2013, before his Tommy John Surgery (TJS). So, I guess he had to be protected, kinda.

carmot

And, as you said earlier, I believe Monell was too.

Foothills Ryan

Monell is one I thought they’d put on the 40 man. Oh well. He’s the type that could get snapped up.

carmot

I’m psyched by Flores in his young pro career. Close to a top-5 starter prospect ranking in my book. Surely a team like HOU would use him earlier than they should just to get him. The Rule 5 has become a kind of abusive system, not at all what its intent was when introduced.

carmot

I think he got through Rule 5 once already. This season he got even MORE productive, I doubt they get away with it again. Shame, we never really saw him in September- when we could’ve been “playing our prospects for the draft pick.” *Uggggh*.

carmot

Having no glove is just brutal for a fringe-ish prospect, even with some good power. Adam Duvall needs to step up in 2014, I’m hoping…

carmot

I’ve got a prediction!

Alex will have a new “post” up about the 40-man roster moves. Popcorn bet?

You have to remember that anyone taken under Rule 5 has to be good enough to stay on their 25-man ALL next season. So only worry yourself with those that were drafted at 18 or 19 that have been in the minors 5/4 years AND are good enough to play on a team ALL SEASON.

Bapah

When was he drafted and at what age?

carmot

True, but my point is… I don’t think HOU cares much if a lefty arm like Kelvin Marte isn’t MLB-ready in 2014, they just want to HAVE him. So what he gets torched? They start him 16 times, or let him get 90 bullpen innings, it’s like “whatever.”

Bapah

Where’s a list of Giants’ rule 5 eligible?

carmot

I probably would’ve made one and posted it, but I’m trying to not try too hard.

Bapah

I could say about five things that would all be appropriate to that snarky response, but why bother? Doing tons of research and commenting on nearly every post does not make one an expert on the game.

My question should have been, “Where can I find a list of Rule 5 eligible players?”

primafacie

Kathy Bates > Kirstie Alley.

Magic Inside 2012

Andres The Forever Giant with another alias here! A healthy Kemp is an amazing player, but why would the Dodgers help the Giants? That said, I have a fantasy trade/rivalry squared: Panda for Kemp, straight up. We need a quality OF, and they’ll need a 3B if Uribe walks!

Magic Inside 2012

Of course, sans Panda means we’d need a 3B too!

ClutchUp

Bingo!

ClutchUp

Prediction Exemplary!

ClutchUp

Great to “SEE” you!

Tom (fm Quinzee)

Memo to Brian Sabean:

If the Giants are so fortunate as to make it to the World Series with Hudson pitching, and the opponent is the Red Sox, DO NOT let Hudson go out for a drink in Boston. It ended badly last time. I’d be willing to wager that the guys in Boston who started that fight STILL have not paid for a drink since then.

Which is my way of saying Huddy may be a great athlete, but he’s a bit light in the common sense department.