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No...what really defines Muv Luv America is that they are leasing out Alaska to the USSR

Ah~ How kind of them to leave some "nice" stuff too as a bonus.

I know that the political leaders don't mind being seen as the devil themselves if it will keep their citizens safe, but they really need to exert moderation. They take things way too far most of the time. lol.

No...what really defines Muv Luv America is that they are leasing out Alaska to the USSR

Of course, with the bonus of

Spoiler for Total Eclipse somewhat spoiler:

the catch that they buried H-bombs all over Alaska as a failsafe in case the BETA break the Soviet front lines in far eastern Siberia and capture Alaska, or perhaps if the guests get too uppity I suppose

Such behavior sets up delicious development for roits and anti-American movement. I would not like if somebody intended to bomb my territory and damaged it irreparably even if it were for "greater good".

In the end Americans will be backed to the wall with conflict from every direction.

sort of what happened in the timelines where Alternative V went ahead.

Quote:

During Muv-Luv Unlimited: The Day After, the true effects of Operation Babylon (later referred to as the Babylon Disaster) are revealed. Due to the intense gravitational anomalies caused by multiple G Bombs detonating in unison, a phenomenon which comes to be referred to as the Oceanic Inversion occurs. This causes the entirety of Europe, Russia, Asia (including the Japanese home islands) and large tracts of the northern hemisphere such as Canada to become submerged under the now combined Atlantic, Pacific and other southern oceans. In addition to this areas of the Earth's atmosphere have simply been blasted away, requiring an environment suit to survive. Habitable land is now at a premium due to the vast salt deserts left behind by the Oceanic Inversion meaning coastal areas are rendered infertile and are ravaged by combined salt and sand storms, drinking water is hard to secure from salt contamination and lung conditions from salt inhalation become more common.

This combined with the Athabasca Incident proved to be too much for two of the four remaining countries on Earth, the France-Canada Union. They declare war on the remnants of the US, and under the Japan-US Alliance the remnants of the Empire of Japan provide support despite having their few remaining forces spread between the safe haven of Hawaii and later the Tacoma area of Seattle.

As if to add insult to injury at least one BETA Hive remains active and as of 2004 have once again resumed their relentless assault on humanity, while we war and scheme among ourselves for the last remaining habitable areas. However, now their Hives are unreachable at the bottom of the ocean and all humanity can do is bear the brunt of their attacks.

They don't really swim, they just rampage along the sea floor . If water deterred them, they wouldn't have be able to invade Japan in the first place. Although I do remember in one of the Day After scenarios, it showed the BETA destroyer and fort-classes directly attacking a aircraft carrier, perhaps they can float if they want to. Remember, the BETA are highly adaptive, and at least one Hive remained active after being blasted into the ocean after Alternative V.

But seriously Alternative V looks like a complete pothead move on a level of hysteric housewife. The consequences are too dire. It is 100% dead end. How did they even justify it? I would except it from Russian "shoot first, think later".

But seriously Alternative V looks like a complete pothead move on a level of hysteric housewife. The consequences are too dire. It is 100% dead end. How did they even justify it? I would except it from Russian "shoot first, think later".

Because apparently blowing everything up is suppose to solve everything.

How did they even justify it? I would except it from Russian "shoot first, think later".

Spoiler for Alternative V:

Well, it was estimated that humanity will be wiped out within ten years. In order to make sure that the race survives, 100,000 people will be selected to move to an inhabitable planet in the Bernard System. The moment the space fleet leaves, the ones left behind will use the G-Bombs against the Hives, and then every country in the world will dispatch their forces including UN's Orbital Divers to retake the mainland a.k.a. Eurasia. Riots broke out everywhere and even terrorists attacks were carried out against the space shuttles that were supposed to take the VIPs to the Space Fleet. The Alternative V supporters were growing tired from the war with BETA, and their numbers kept on increasing including in the UN. Since Alternative IV did not produce much results, Alternative V received more supporters overtime, and eventually, Alternative IV was cancelled.

Still kinda sounds like an ok plan at first except America did not mention that they're not completely sure whether the fleet will actually reach its destination -- just so that UN will not deny the proposition for the second time (First one was back in 1996?). Not to mention, things did not turn out the way it was supposed to. Using multiple G-Bombs simultaneously was not a very good idea as you can see in Doomravager's post. Using the experiment bombs which we don't really know what it does in the long term was just blatantly ridiculous in the first place. Then again, not a big problem for the big wigs that supported Alternative V since they're somewhere safe anyway just like what they wanted... except for the ones left behind in the United States, who will receive the combined wrath of Canada-France Alliance because of Americans' incurable fetish for bombs and the "humiliation" that they received. Oh, and let's not forget their attempt of using a reactive bomb at the border even though they're fully aware that not much fertile land is left in the world.

It's not just Alt V I was talking about. The part where US is developing their TSFs as if they are more interested in fighting against other humans than against BETA.

Mind you, it's not as if the US was the only nation that was doing that - the IJA and Imperial Guard did train for TSF-vs-TSF combat, and let's not forget the aggressor pilots of the Fuji School Brigade.

In fact, all things considered, I'm of the opinion that the F-22 was a prudent choice, assholish as it may have been, because as Day After showed, it was absolutely necessary. Hell, don't forget the coup!

Yes, the YF-23 may have been better at fighting BETA, but the Americans, crazy prepared as they try to be, anticipated that at some point there would be TSFs fighting against each other and wanted that little edge.

Also, it's worth noting that the Americans didn't shoot first, but the French-Canadians.

tl;dr: Everyone had some form of anti-TSF combat planning or training going on; it was only that the Americans were bluntly honest enough - or just didn't give a fuck - in making a surface superiority TSF God Mode Sue, and were able to field it in decent numbers (several battalions) compared to, say, the Shiranui, which mostly went to aces.

Again, as I've said before, it's kinda an American mindset. To quote a song I heard once, "You don't care about what's right or what's wrong, you do what you gotta do to defend your own."

__________________

~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

It's not just Alt V I was talking about. The part where US is developing their TSFs as if they are more interested in fighting against other humans than against BETA.

Well, they're just taking the long view, that's all. Since it's not like everything is going to be sunshine and roses between nations after the BETA are gone, they might as well make sure to get an edge over everyone else ahead of time. It's not as if the F-22 doesn't already do pretty damn well against BETA anyway, and there's also the excuse that the YF-23's design focus tried to do too many radical design innovations like having four pylons instead of two to carry up to six guns at once, altered ammo ratios in the XAMWS-24 swapping a buttload of 36mm rounds for a few extra 120mm rounds plus a bayonet, a sword etc., which ended up being completely contrary to standard US TSF combat doctrine of focusing on longer range engagements as opposed to close combat, making it less suitable for adoption (since you'd probably be spending a lot to retrain your pilots and redraw plans to suit use of a close combat type TSF). The YF-23's design was something more suited to, say, European or Soviet tactical doctrine. Sort of mirrors all the crazy stuff the real-life YF-23 tried to do with its IR signature-hiding heat ablating tiles, unconventional diamond-shaped wings with fancy all-moving V-tail etc, compared to the YF-22 being more grounded in existing stuff.

That is to say, it's not so much that they're more interested in fighting BETA, as it is that they're taking into consideration both the need to fight the BETA now as well as the possibility of the threat of other humans once the BETA are gone, and the YF-22 fit both these requirements while the YF-23 went a bit off the rails in trying to do too many new things.

If I remember correctly the US Marines do still pull their weight with frequent anti-BETA ops in the European/Taiwan areas alongside Euro/Warsaw/Soviet etc. forces, so it's not as though they're just sitting back and letting everyone else do the work with their exported TSFs.

Oh, I completely agree - I was just pointing out that for all the claims of "DURR HURR US ARE BAD GUYS", the Americans are being quite pragmatic. Note that most of the Americans encountered in the game tend to be upstanding, decent people, particularly Al Walker, who shits freedom and bald eagles.

Also, the US is incredibly involved all over the world, it's just that there's so much BETA, what good they can do is quickly swallowed up. Heck, look at TE ep 2: Kyoto is falling, the final defensive line is broken, the IJN is resorting to naval gunfire missions danger close, practically on top of the few Japanese forces that aren't eaten up, the situation is obviously hopeless... and then the Theodore Roosevelt launches her Tomcats to do whatever they can, because they're allies, and that's what allies do.

"Their devotion to duty is admirable," murmurs the IJN Admiral, even though he knows it's all pointless.

All things considered, as a whole, Muv-Luv has one of the kinder portrayals of Americans: pragmatists who will shoot the dog if they have to - but at the same time, decent people who try their best to do the right thing.

__________________

~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

I have always been of the opinion that the F-22 development was planned in relation to Alternative V having taken placed. They probably predicted that the aftermath would not make other nations that survived very happy neighbors. So they created their own ace in the hole. Whether as a deterrence or a show of force or both is possible.

I must also say that I do find the expense and space used on the TSF frame for stealth capabilities against other TSFs could have been better used on Anti-BETA detection / armor capacity.

I would assume that post MLA alternative IV, they would be heavily criticized for that policy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

All things considered, as a whole, Muv-Luv has one of the kinder portrayals of Americans: pragmatists who will shoot the dog if they have to - but at the same time, decent people who try their best to do the right thing.

I agree with this point. Even if the commanders are concerned with the politics of the situation, the pilot on the ground only cares for getting shit done.