Spazo, I'm not referencing Zionist progaganda or speculating on events, I'm stating documented, demonstrable history that is publically available if you care to read a book on the subject.

"It's hotly contested but saying you occupied land 3,000 years ago doesn't give you the right to kick people out of their homes"

You completely misunderstood my statement regarding Jewish occupation; I said that they have been living in the area in question for over 3000 years. The Jews were living in that area long before the Palestinians and the Ottoman Empire, were living in that area alongside the Palestinians and during the Ottoman Empire, and continuously returned when exiled from it. Look it up.

"...well that was f**kin ages ago and they could be making it up"

That line actually made me laugh. No, historians don't go to the local Synagogue for their information, they refer to documented evidence from a large variety of sources that span an enormous length of time. They then state what happened, devoid of personal opinion.

"I wonder what a Palestinian would have to say about these assertions"

Probably something along the lines of "Sura 5:51: O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.”

Perhaps "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him."

I realise that I'm cherry-picking Qur'an lines here, but you need to understand that from a historical standpoint, the Jews were put in an area that they had always lived, and had been persecuted for 1000 years for no reason other than their ethnicity and the attitude of Islam towards that ethnicity. Although they built up the area they were occupying from basically nothing (go look up some photos), they were met with opposition by the local palestinians simply for being being there and being Jewish, not for taking Palestinian homes. If you do any form of research on the topic at all, you will find this to be the case.

"I'm sure that Jews in America and in the media have worked pretty hard to twist the story in their favour and portray Palestinians (and Muslims) as savage rebels without a cause"

Dude, you really need to put the tinfoil hat down and actually read a book, because the propaganda engine is the reverse of what you say, coming from the opposite camp. The Jews don't need to twist the history of Israel because they were effectively the victims in the whole saga. This all happened within 100 years, the history is solid, and the only time that discussion of "Zionist propaganda in the media" is even worthwhile comes well after the creation of Israel.

You seem quite convinced of many of the comments you've made but I am just a little skeptical.

Of course you're skeptical. Not only are you entirely ignorant of the history involved, but you hold a "smoke theres fire" mentality with what seems to be an emotional bias towards the apparent minority party. Were you to read any amount of the wealth of information freely available on the topic, you could actually make an informed assessment of the situation, and draw a conclusion that fits reality. As it is, all you can really do is indulge in idle speculation and listen to the loudest protestors, which in this case are the supporters of the Muslim Palestinians.

If you ever take the time to learn more about the subject, I challenge you to discuss reality and history with said "Free Palestine protestors". Every single one I've talked to knew absolutely f**k all about it, and could only tell me about the "evil Jews killing the poor Palestinians"... well no sh*t. If the Palestinians kill Jewish soldiers belonging to a nation that requires ALL citizens (male and female) to serve time in the military, they're gonna kill you back. That's how sh*tfight conflicts work; nobody has the moral highground.

As I said I'm not really into this stuff but where there's smoke there's fire and while we might be right to side with the west, I don't think we (the people) have all the facts and many assume that Muslims are crazy bombing, beheading, plane crashing folk for no reason.

Honestly, there's simply so much that has happened in that region I almost cbf discussing it. Will certain things be unknown? Sure, and the same applies to both sides of the argument, which is why I refer to real history and the events that unfolded. The reality of Israel is that the Arab nations went to war with the significantly smaller Jewish forces, lost, then lost land as a result. The Palestinians lost the most in that war, however they also happen to be the ones that began the process of escalation.

The only reason that the Arab states even care about that small strip of land is due to their religion.

Guerilla warfare is doing what you have to to survive these people are animals without honor killing in the name of a book

Yeah, no other religion has ever done that before

If I walked down George St and saw a guy taking a dump in the gutter, I'd call him a dirty bastard, in spite of the fact that there weren't toilets all over the place 1000 years ago. Opinions are made within the context of time and change.

That scenario fixed into the current problem will go like this, spiking a guys drink with laxatives, him shitting his pants and then calling him a dirty bastard.

We had raids and people got arrested for planing to take off heads in the streets. 2 weeks later there let go with no charges. if there was proof they would have been charged.
2 weeks ago a kid got shot for stabbing a police officer while walking into a police office and he mentioned allah before the tried killing the police.... where is the video footage or a picture of a stab wound

The Australian arm of this terror alert bullshit is simple smoke and mirrors to detract from a government who cant push through their shitty budget and is losing popularity in the polls.

There has never been a political figure who did not see a boost in the polls after a declaration of war. Further, they are using this as a great opportunity to sneak other less desirable aspects of their policies through under the guise of terror.

you or I are in no more or less danger from a terrorist attack than we were 2 months ago. we are an insignificant blip on the radar of ISIS and throwing a shitload of money we apparently dont even have into a war we dont need to go into and quite likely will never 'win' is pointless and you should all be mad its happening, because that 500 million dollars a year (during a BUDGET EMERGENCY, apparently) is money that could be spent on services, schools and hospitals instead of sending troops into the meat grinder that is the middle east.

There is no reason for us to go to ANY war that isnt on our own shores.

I want aussies to ask why our troops went to the middle east when we were never in any threat. The arse hole behind it should be put in prison so the next one after him would think twice about spreading fear

The Australian arm of this terror alert bullshit is simple smoke and mirrors to detract from a government who cant push through their shitty budget and is losing popularity in the polls.

There has never been a political figure who did not see a boost in the polls after a declaration of war. Further, they are using this as a great opportunity to sneak other less desirable aspects of their policies through under the guise of terror.

you or I are in no more or less danger from a terrorist attack than we were 2 months ago. we are an insignificant blip on the radar of ISIS and throwing a shitload of money we apparently dont even have into a war we dont need to go into and quite likely will never 'win' is pointless and you should all be mad its happening, because that 500 million dollars a year (during a BUDGET EMERGENCY, apparently) is money that could be spent on services, schools and hospitals instead of sending troops into the meat grinder that is the middle east.

There is no reason for us to go to ANY war that isnt on our own shores.

Think for a moment about what you are suggesting.

1) By claiming our return to Iraq is nothing more than an attempt by the Aus government to direct attention away from their failures at home is to say that western forces getting involved in Iraq was instigated entirely by Australia. Do you really think we have enough clout to tell the USA what to do??

OR

2) You are hinting that western involvement in Iraq was a mere opportunity for Australia to get involved, and we would have chosen not to had it not been for budget woes at home. This is just as silly because you would be assuming Australia could afford the diplomatic damage this would cause and that our politicians have the stones to wear such damage.

Sending Australian soldiers into Iraq was the only option we had available to us.

The Australian arm of this terror alert bullshit is simple smoke and mirrors to detract from a government who cant push through their shitty budget and is losing popularity in the polls.

There has never been a political figure who did not see a boost in the polls after a declaration of war. Further, they are using this as a great opportunity to sneak other less desirable aspects of their policies through under the guise of terror.

you or I are in no more or less danger from a terrorist attack than we were 2 months ago. we are an insignificant blip on the radar of ISIS and throwing a shitload of money we apparently dont even have into a war we dont need to go into and quite likely will never 'win' is pointless and you should all be mad its happening, because that 500 million dollars a year (during a BUDGET EMERGENCY, apparently) is money that could be spent on services, schools and hospitals instead of sending troops into the meat grinder that is the middle east.

There is no reason for us to go to ANY war that isnt on our own shores.

Think for a moment about what you are suggesting.

1) By claiming our return to Iraq is nothing more than an attempt by the Aus government to direct attention away from their failures at home is to say that western forces getting involved in Iraq was instigated entirely by Australia. Do you really think we have enough clout to tell the USA what to do??

OR

2) You are hinting that western involvement in Iraq was a mere opportunity for Australia to get involved, and we would have chosen not to had it not been for budget woes at home. This is just as silly because you would be assuming Australia could afford the diplomatic damage this would cause and that our politicians have the stones to wear such damage.

Sending Australian soldiers into Iraq was the only option we had available to us.

1) dont be so naive. did I suggest that we are telling the US to go to war as a cover for our shitty budget? USA decides to go in, asks us for help, and Abbott sends us in despite the fact we are apparently in debt and can barely afford to sustain our way of life (medicare, pension, welfare all to be cut) to the tune of 500 million dollars a year.

2) Abbotts approval rating bumped 6 points on declaration that we are going to iraq. Like I said, there has never been an Australian Politician in the history of this country that has not seen a bump after going to war. its not at all a matter of 'having the stones' its 'needing to keep the voters in my corner so I will pull the oldest trick in the book'.

Again, you missed the point.
By assuming Abbott chose to go to Iraq for internal political reasons, you are assuming there is any possible scenario where the USA goes to Iraq and Australia does not follow. That is naive.

There was no opportunity for Abbott to decide that it would help his approval rating. Political woes or not, Australia was going back to Iraq.

Spazo, the simple fact that jews were a race without a home country prior to the creation of Israel should hint to you that the occupants of that land prior to Israel's creation are not entirely without blame.

I wish it was an un-written rule that anybody who choses to criticize the creation of the Jewish Reserve by the British (which later became Israel) should be required to first propose a better solution to Jews being scattered all over the world and welcome nowhere.

There is a reason no one wanted the Jews. And I will not go into that. Do some research if you don't know

Spazo, the simple fact that jews were a race without a home country prior to the creation of Israel should hint to you that the occupants of that land prior to Israel's creation are not entirely without blame.

I wish it was an un-written rule that anybody who choses to criticize the creation of the Jewish Reserve by the British (which later became Israel) should be required to first propose a better solution to Jews being scattered all over the world and welcome nowhere.

There is a reason no one wanted the Jews. And I will not go into that. Do some research if you don't know

Again, i am not interested in your problem unless you have a better solution.

Spazo, the simple fact that jews were a race without a home country prior to the creation of Israel should hint to you that the occupants of that land prior to Israel's creation are not entirely without blame.

I wish it was an un-written rule that anybody who choses to criticize the creation of the Jewish Reserve by the British (which later became Israel) should be required to first propose a better solution to Jews being scattered all over the world and welcome nowhere.

There is a reason no one wanted the Jews. And I will not go into that. Do some research if you don't know

Again, i am not interested in your problem unless you have a better solution.

Stop bashing the keyboard.

It's done it's called Israel.
I did not state it is my problem or for a better solution. It is what it is.

Sure sounds like you have a problem, afterall you took the effort to include it in the conversation

I do not reside on either side of the fence, i simply observe and state what i see.

I do not have much concern for the soldiers we send into battle having known a retired soldier who's biggest regret from his career was never getting a chance to kill anybody.

I also acknowledge the political and emotional cost to the public from soldiers being killed in Iraq, but at the same time i knew the day it was announced that we would pull out, we were likely to wind up back there fighting the next tyrants that show up, and the longer they are left to grow the bigger the clean up will eventually be for us.

I have observed since the media started conveniently reporting about ISIS over the past couple of months (despite them existing for years) seems awfully coordinated with the eventual announcement of our return. It seems an though the govt instructed the media to soften the public opinion towards returning. While i am not hugely opposed to the idea and never was, i still think we are being played.

You cannot maintain a full view of the picture if you only sit on one side of the fence.