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Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.

Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?

The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?

If only he persisted with a VoNC. Right now it is: VoNC at the best opportunity, i.e., when he thinks it'll pass. Which, given the numbers, is not likely any time soon. The simple fact is that neither the Tories, nor the DUP, will vote against May in a VoNC. All, and I do mean all, know full well what the consequences of that would be at the ballot box. Not least, for many, for themselves personally.

The thing is: it was agreed at the time. So he should stick to it. But then get it over and done with immediately after the meaningful vote. If he wins, he got what he wants. If he loses, he can immediately switch gear to the other options. Things are what they are in the commons, no real need for all the equivocation, frankly.

Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.

Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?

The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?

If only he persisted with a VoNC. Right now it is: VoNC at the best opportunity, i.e., when he thinks it'll pass. Which, given the numbers, is not likely any time soon. The simple fact is that neither the Tories, nor the DUP, will vote against May in a VoNC. All, and I do mean all, know full well what the consequences of that would be at the ballot box. Not least, for many, for themselves personally.

The thing is: it was agreed at the time. So he should stick to it. But then get it over and done with immediately after the meaningful vote. If he wins, he got what he wants. If he loses, he can immediately switch gear to the other options. Things are what they are in the commons, no real need for all the equivocation, frankly.

I don't know if Corbyn see's hard Brexit as bad, it'll be a disaster but it's the Tories disaster and it's out of Europe which suits him.

Pretty sure they didn't argue all the populist arguments around NHS, immigration and housing were down to bad government policy.

They argued about what we would lose if we left, without arguing about the positives of the EU or that government policy is the issue not the EU.

That's because the remain campaign was full of tories who fucked up the NHS, immigration and housing and used the EU as a scapegoat. They were hardly going to own up to their shit governance.

Originally Posted by Paul Mason

It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.

Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?

The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?

If only he persisted with a VoNC. Right now it is: VoNC at the best opportunity, i.e., when he thinks it'll pass. Which, given the numbers, is not likely any time soon. The simple fact is that neither the Tories, nor the DUP, will vote against May in a VoNC. All, and I do mean all, know full well what the consequences of that would be at the ballot box. Not least, for many, for themselves personally.

The thing is: it was agreed at the time. So he should stick to it. But then get it over and done with immediately after the meaningful vote. If he wins, he got what he wants. If he loses, he can immediately switch gear to the other options. Things are what they are in the commons, no real need for all the equivocation, frankly.

I don't know if Corbyn see's hard Brexit as bad, it'll be a disaster but it's the Tories disaster and it's out of Europe which suits him.

I'm not sure about hard Brexit, but surely 'soft Brexit', whatever that means.

However, should there be a next election, the platform will be determined by the party, with input from the members. So I doubt he'll be able to run on a leave platform. Not without alienating 80% of the members, and the vast majority of the PLP. So, whatever.

Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.

Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?

The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?

Once again, you are drinking too much of the cool aid there Djan.

The membership voted for this approach.

and once again you are failing to recognise the temporal necessity of this situation. Membership voted prior to the ECJ giving us a blank check. A delay in the event of deal being voted down just for a VONC is completely unnecessary.

There appears to be a massive difference in how parliamentary politics works and how you think it should work.

In the short term the game constrains the players, you are better off directing your ire at changing the game long term because the players currently don't give a shit about the general public at the moment.

Originally Posted by Paul Mason

It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.

Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?

The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?

Once again, you are drinking too much of the cool aid there Djan.

The membership voted for this approach.

and once again you are failing to recognise the temporal necessity of this situation. Membership voted prior to the ECJ giving us a blank check. A delay in the event of deal being voted down just for a VONC is completely unnecessary.

You personally may think a delay in the deal for a VONC is unnecessary (and I agree), but apparently the labour membership doesn't agree with you when they put it to a vote a couple of months ago.

The EU have already indicated they are happy to delay for a GE or a referendum, so time is not of the essence.

It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

Don’t understand why he doesn’t just call for a public vote immediately after May’s deal is voted down. I fucking hate the clown.

Because the policy that was democratically agreed at the conference was to try for a VONC first.

Are you suggesting he should defy the will of his party membership?

The membership that will crucify him for persisting with a VONC when time is of the essence?

Once again, you are drinking too much of the cool aid there Djan.

The membership voted for this approach.

and once again you are failing to recognise the temporal necessity of this situation. Membership voted prior to the ECJ giving us a blank check. A delay in the event of deal being voted down just for a VONC is completely unnecessary.

You personally may think a delay in the deal for a VONC is unnecessary (and I agree), but apparently the labour membership doesn't agree with you when they put it to a vote a couple of months ago.

The EU have already indicated they are happy to delay for a GE or a referendum, so time is not of the essence.