I didn't see that quote in the article anywhere, subby. I did see these, however...

"There was obviously some kind of intervention involved in this incident because (Waggoner) should probably not be here," Dayton Police Sgt. Michael Pauley told the paper at the scene

Ah, yes. The old God obviously intervened by putting the book at the right place to stop the bullets, but he couldn't be bothered to intervene in the lives of the assailants to prevent them becoming attempted murderers. Gotta love those mysterious ways.

Of course, the cop doesn't explicitly say "God", so I'm sure he just meant the book intervened in some way between the man and the bullet. But as an honorary, if not official, member of the Fark Anti-Religion Brigade (or whatever we're being called now), it's obligatory to get a dig in. ;)

"That's wonderful," said Peterson, who is 81. "I've heard stories about that happening during the second World War. I'm glad to be in the club."

FTFA:Reached at his home in Lakeside, Mont., Eugene H. Peterson, author of "The Message," told FoxNews.com that he was thrilled to know his book stopped bullets. That's wonderful," said Peterson, who is 81. "I've heard stories about that happening during the second World War. I'm glad to be in the club."

hardinparamedic:MaudlinMutantMollusk: It'd take a 20mm depleted uranium round to punch through bullsh*t that dense

I wonder if it's as legitimate as the cop who's badge stopped a bullet.

The story does seem a bit far fetched doesn't it? He was outnumbered three to one, he was shot in the leg and stabbed in the arm, but apparently still managed to disarm one person of a gun and another of a knife, after which all three fled. I'm not saying that's impossible, but if it turns out to be false I won't exactly be shocked.

mamoru:he couldn't be bothered to intervene in the lives of the assailants to prevent them becoming attempted murderers.

Actually, it's my understanding that in the dogma God made humans specifically to have free will. That's why sin CAN exist. They choose to become murderers. God prevented it because it wasn't part of HIS plan. The reason God doesn't interfere more is because free will was part of his plan, too. The angels have no free will but do only God's will.

If you're going mock a religion, at least try to get the central tenant right. They worship the image of a demi-god letting himself be crucified as penance for the sins of all mankind. It's been going strong for 2000 years, most of which they've spent inventing philosophical tools like symbolic logic, spelling, and the revolver. I'm pretty sure there's less cognitive dissonance than you're implying.

If God only allows things to happen according to his plan (or intervenes to prevent things from going according to plan), then there is no way to determine the existence of free will, as one could never distinguish between a freely chosen action and an intervention. If free will is promised by God, then every intervention breaks that promise.

Of course, taken to the fullest extent, an omnipotent god running the universe according to plan is mutually exclusive from free will anyway (since omnipotence implies omniscience, and omniscience implies certain knowledge of the future, which removes the possibility of the players in the universe making free choices that could change that future). Either God has limits on his power to know for certain the outcome of events, or there is no free will.

Or does it? Some people pray, some people don't. If those who choose to pray properly have their prayers answered, how is that a violation of free will? Someone spiritual enough to carry a bible in his breast pocket probably prays for the safety of his health and family. That's at least a +2 AC bonus.

On the other hand, I don't think even the Christians think their god is omnipotent. That's why the Catholics invented the holy trinity. Polytheism is the only real logical answer for any religion in the long run. I mean we still honor the Viking and Roman gods daily just by speaking English. When prayers aren't answered all the time, but sometimes the absolutes don't make sense. But if you've got a strapping big thunder god like Thor who's too busy dressing up like his sister to get his hammer back from horny giants to stop and help every warrior with a rock in his shoe, that makes sense on a deep emotional level. "Of course the gods can't hear every prayer, but I'm beloved of them. They must be busy. "

Anyway, the moral of the story is you should always keep a black walnut tree on your property and some chalk and iron nails by the door, just in case.

Things you should also keep on hand in case of religion: salt, a horseshoe, some candles, a knife, honey, small bags, a mineral collection, and if possible a bottle of 100% oxygen in case of "divers maladies"

mamoru:I didn't see that quote in the article anywhere, subby. I did see these, however...

"There was obviously some kind of intervention involved in this incident because (Waggoner) should probably not be here," Dayton Police Sgt. Michael Pauley told the paper at the scene

Ah, yes. The old God obviously intervened by putting the book at the right place to stop the bullets, but he couldn't be bothered to intervene in the lives of the assailants to prevent them becoming attempted murderers. Gotta love those mysterious ways.

Of course, the cop doesn't explicitly say "God", so I'm sure he just meant the book intervened in some way between the man and the bullet. But as an honorary, if not official, member of the Fark Anti-Religion Brigade (or whatever we're being called now), it's obligatory to get a dig in. ;)

"That's wonderful," said Peterson, who is 81. "I've heard stories about that happening during the second World War. I'm glad to be in the club."

Heh. I actually like the book author's reaction. :)

god is a COMPLETE and total asshole.what kind of tiny dicked little god would save this moron???

an innocent is killed by god ... god is greatan asshole is killed by god ... god is ...an asshole lives by god ... god is ....terrorists blow up the trade center god is greatgod prevents a different suicide bomb ...

fark itgod is a complete and total asshole

god let bush 2.0 not choke to death on that pretzle ... god is an asshole

Working from the assumption that this guy's god exists... So... did his god try to kill him and failed because the guy happened to have a book in his pocket or was his god unable to stop the third bullet from hitting him in the leg or the knife from stabbing him in the arm? Or was it his god's intention to have him get shot in the leg and stabbed in the arm, but not killed? Or maybe this was really his god testing his faith. Or maybe his god figured he could have him shot in the leg, stabbed in the arm, and still come out smelling like roses because he made sure two of the bullets hit the book. Hmmm...

I can imagine his god having a conversation with another god:

"Hey... I'm going to have this guy shot in the leg and stabbed in the arm and he won't blame me at all. In fact, he's going to thank me for saving his life.. HAH! Watch..."

Just waned to say that the cops and FBI know about all these gangs, where they live, who they are and I have no problem with them rolling tanks in the street and sending every last pimply, baggy assed, illiterate, gutless, violent one of them to a lime pit, tut suite. And they shouldn't, either. Now roll the FARK Atheist Brigade. Out.

bunner:Just waned to say that the cops and FBI know about all these gangs, where they live, who they are and I have no problem with them rolling tanks in the street and sending every last pimply, baggy assed, illiterate, gutless, violent one of them to a lime pit, tut suite. And they shouldn't, either. Now roll the FARK Atheist Brigade. Out.

calbert:bunner: Just waned to say that the cops and FBI know about all these gangs, where they live, who they are and I have no problem with them rolling tanks in the street and sending every last pimply, baggy assed, illiterate, gutless, violent one of them to a lime pit, tut suite. And they shouldn't, either. Now roll the FARK Atheist Brigade. Out.

calbert:why does subby have a quote in their headline that appears nowhere in the story?

This is a recent trend. It is a good way of getting your link greenlit. Mods don't verify quotes--they probably don't read the articles. I'll probably still come to Fark often, but this is a serious quality issue. It just makes the whole thing a bit stupid.

Fark thrives on wit and intelligence; it thrives on strange or interesting stories with clever headlines. I don't know. Maybe it will thrive on dimwitted fictional quotes.

bunner:calbert: bunner: Just waned to say that the cops and FBI know about all these gangs, where they live, who they are and I have no problem with them rolling tanks in the street and sending every last pimply, baggy assed, illiterate, gutless, violent one of them to a lime pit, tut suite. And they shouldn't, either. Now roll the FARK Atheist Brigade. Out.

????

I dropped an O. Sorry.

I was confused. I thought you were just rambling and stroking out there at the end.

doglover:I don't think even the Christians think their god is omnipotent.

Hmmm... Really? I obviously think otherwise. I wonder if there is any good data regarding this. I mean, the phrase "God Almighty" is common enough, and I'm pretty sure Christians who say it, especially during religious services and such, mean it. But it could very well be said without thinking. I'd bet a huge majority really haven't given it much thought as most have been brought up with it and simply accept it because they always have.

I'm sure all of us, or at least many of us, could spout of anecdotes about Christians believing one way or the other, but I wonder if this is something that has actually ever been measured and if there is any data out there.

I wonder if any of Fark's resident Christians would be willing to chime in, in an obviously not-at-all-scientific-non-representative-just-out-of-curiosity poll: Do you believe your deity is all-powerful?

calbert:bunner: Just waned to say that the cops and FBI know about all these gangs, where they live, who they are and I have no problem with them rolling tanks in the street and sending every last pimply, baggy assed, illiterate, gutless, violent one of them to a lime pit, tut suite. And they shouldn't, either. Now roll the FARK Atheist Brigade. Out.

Evangelist protestant denominations typically go with "not omnipotent" to solve the problem of evil, by assigning another supernatural entity (Satan) the ability to do things that God doesn't want him to do, or "not benevolent" in that bad things are God punishing unrelated innocent people for the sins of the less-innocent, with no explanation for the responsible sinners being just fine.

They don't come right out and say "god can't do things" or "god is evil", no, but it's a definite and intentional part of their theology if you use words according to their actual, y'know, meanings instead of the non-meaning propaganda speak of the church doublethink.

Non-evangelist protestants almost universally go with a different variant of "not benevolent" called the watchmaker God, where god made the world and gave everyone the tools to make it perfect, and then stepped out and stopped interfering. So evil is some mortal's fault, but not necessarily the person that actually is getting farked, it's just some past deviation form the divine plan in the past throwing shiat off.

Catholics have a much more complex and nuanced theology, and various apologetics go with any of the three resolutions (god is not benevolent, god is not omniscient, god is not omnipotent) depending heavily on the writer and his contemporary political climate, so Catholics can basically take their pick.

// No one has ever resolved Theodicy without using one of the three, don't feel bad if you can't either... I mean, non-monotheists will continue to mock you because it's an entirely legitimate criticism and it's funny, but in the context of still being Christian etc you don't need to feel like you're a bad Christian or whatever.

What if he'd had a copy of The Gay Agenda® in his pocket. Would the god-controlled bullet have screeched to a halt mid-air like Elmer Fudd's ammo, then turned around, flown to congress and passed a law allowing itself and all its bullet buddies to refuse to do their job of killin' when the bullet sincerely believes it shouldn't have to serve the homogheys?

mamoru:I'm sure all of us, or at least many of us, could spout of anecdotes about Christians believing one way or the other, but I wonder if this is something that has actually ever been measured and if there is any data out there.

Not exactly the same question, but this poll found "A 37% plurality of Americans (including 52% of Catholics) believes that God observes but does not control what happens on Earth - down considerably from 2003, when half of Americans (50%) expressed this belief. Just under three in ten (29%) Americans, including majorities of those who self-identify as very religious (60%) and/or born-again Christians (56%), believe that God controls what happens on Earth."...