You like cartoons don’t you? Don’t you! Of course you do, because you’re awesome. And for all of us that love these delectable bundles of animated joy, we have our favorites. But what’s the best animated series of all time? The Commodore takes shot at this question today, incorporating a metric ton of comments from the community. After this fruitful discussion the Commodore asks a question for next week about new hardware in the videogame marketplace. Competition is the name of the game – It’s the Weekly Wringer!

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I am absolutely ready for a new company to enter in the ring. The past generation (starting around 2006?) has been very unoriginal imo, filled with business models that focus mostly on trying to create games that leech off as many WoW players, or Call of Duty players, etc. It hasn’t been all terrible, but I feel that Nintendo, Microsoft, AND Sony, along with the major developers of the current era need to remember their roots a bit more. While sales for games were through the roof back when the generation started, I think more people are starting to agree with me, as video game sales have been going down for a while now.

It is somewhat ironic that in the age of more and more technology the big releases each year are more and more cookie cutter. I guess creativity does come from restriction, not complete freedom.

In the case of the steambox, I could see it being used a lot by the indie community. This could be good then for my desires, as the indie community as a whole has been the best part of this gen for me.

So in summary: Assuming it focuses on having a diverse library, yes I am ready for a new challenger to appear.

As a preface, I see a huge want for backwards compatibility and permanence of libraries. We struggled a little from PS2/XBOX to PS3/XBOX360 and backwards compatibility. In this next gen of consoles we’ve added the factor of “cloud-based” downloaded games posing the challenege of requiring a server somewhere around for us to re-download them. The question is going to pop up: “Can I carry my downloaded games forward on my new system and still play them?”

Backwards compatibility is a big thing for us older gamers who don’t have time to keep up with all the modern games and modern systems. We’ll be looking for strong brands that give us confidence that our game libraries won’t be extinguished anytime soon. With that said, I don’t think I’m ready for a new system unless it had a huge name behind it (cough cough Apple cough Steam cough). Even then I’d probably be one of those guys who waited to see their 2nd gen console and witnessed their transition competency.

The problem is that it’s doubtful any company is ready to make a system that will be competitive.

Especially with the fact that smartphone games like Angry Birds have sold billions of downloads, everyone is scrambling to figure out how to get their IP portable. The Wii U (Is that really what they’re calling it?) is trying to do that. Nobody else has any good ideas.

Anybody who wants to make a new system had better figure out a way, or they’ll just be an also ran. They’ll need to have games on their system, that can be moved, if not in whole, than in part, to a portable device. Like minigame levels. You can do those on the bus on the way home, then load your progress into the main game, and play on the home system with added whatevers.

At this point, though, everyone has pretty much picked their side. If you’re not on the Nintendo virtual area, you’re on either Sony or XBox, and if you’re none of those, than people with Android are playing your games on their smartphones.

It will take a lot of venture capital to get enough of a company to ensure enough games can exist on a home system in addition to a portable device, and there aren’t a whole lot of cmpanies that have enough games and money to make the choice, that haven’t, already.

I think the time has passed for new systems. At least until someone perfects the ability to work between a home system and a portable. Then everyone will jump on that market, the way they’ve been hoping to.

I see no reason more companies can’t make peripherals for their games, but that’s neither here nor there.

Why Valve hasn’t made a Powerglove-like Portal controller is beyond me, and I’ve given up trying to convince them. There’s science to be done.

OMG. Do you see now Aestolia why I get so upset hearing anyone (especially an anime fan) talk about anime the way you did. There are people that think they “don’t like anime”. That is an impossibility. You can absolutely detest the animation style and I’ll still find you something that will blow your mind. “I don’t like anime.” That’s like saying you don’t like video games when you’ve only played Ghostbusters (nes). Don’t like movies when you’ve only seen Gigli. Don’t like television when you’ve only seen I Carly.

Seriously Commodore. You are missing out in a huge way. Not just from an animation standpoint, but entertainment in general. When it comes to comedy, America has some really good ones that can compete especially taking into consideration that alot of Japanese humor can lose something going between cultures. As far as anything else (and I mean not just animated), there are Japanimation shows and movies unlike anything you’ve ever experienced that nothing in America can hold a candle to.

Anime cannot be lumped into one genre. Liked Silence of the Lambs? Monster is better. Kill Bill? Quentin on his best day doesn’t come close to Ninja Scroll. As far as Sci fi with a western feel I’d put Trigun right up there with Star Wars. Akira was much better than The Matrix. Vampires? I can’t think of anything that even compares to Kurozuka or Blood the Last Vampire. Zombies? High School of the Dead is like Shawn of the Dead meets 28 days later, but better than either. Conan the Barbarian? Berserk Berserk Berserk. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is like if The Breakfast Club banged Blade Runner. There is a great anime out there for anyone.

Anyway. As for the question for this week, I believe I’ve said this before, but I want downloadable games. I absolutely love the possibilities of the Wii U controller. If they came out with a similar controller and I didn’t have to have to mess with disks, much as I love Nintendo as a game developer I’d have to give it serious consideration. If it was able to play multiple games on multiple tvs/monitors too would be really cool.

Not really since what I want in hardware/software they do not do anymore. Also the fan-base/fanboys of certain hardware I am annoyed with on how they bash other consoles/hardware/software for what they do or don’t do differently without a valid point.

First I thought to say yes I would buy it. And then I had to sum up my experience of owning all consoles and handhelds of this generation. And the sum is that they are all sold and I only have the Wii left, mainly to keep my SNES classics at hand and watch Netflix. And I have literraly 3 games, Mario, Zelda, Metroid that have cases.

I don’t think I would have the will to spend so much money on something I would only have time to play a few hours a week. I am afraid to say but my phone became my platform of choice. The only reason I could finish the original Final Fantasy is because I could save anywhere, anytime. And thank god for that. And that what got me back into JRPGs I think that in this way they should make a comeback of sorts, because I don’t mind an 80 hour adventure if I can contribute 5 minutes at a time. I love that. I want to see more games like that. It’s a game that’s not over in a weekend so there is always that drive to get a little more stuff done: grind up some levels, get some treasure, explore a town, then save and come back after.

The only reason I would buy a new console is color. Yes I would love to see more color because in all honesty I felt ripped off playing games that stuck to a certain color scheme. I am not going to join others in hating it, I am just saying I feel that after paying several hundred dollars I expected to see a bit more. And another reason would be the price. I wouldn’t complain so much about the color if it didn’t cost me so much.

And the last reason would be probably the real one: Content. Yes I stopped paying attention to shaders and floaters 5 minutes into any modern game. So if there is something that would bring me to it, I’d say some kind of social multiplayer thing. And I want to see it in games like Zelda, so I can compete for speedruns and 3 heart runs and see people do it and see their replays, and compete for the fastest time in my league. Basically some kind of leaderboards and online things that WORK and stay active. But I don’t want multiplayer shoved into my throat. I want it to be in the background after the game is done. Like I would want to shoot people on my skill level and not listen to insults. Basically yeah, things would have to be pretty diffeent in a new gen for me to jump into it. Like having my skill analyzed and sorted into a class so I can see someone finish a Mario level 10 seconds faster then beat this time and move up a rank or something. I used to want to be good at games, now I want to actually enjoy them and have fun and have something I can remember.

The biggest drawback for me personally now is time. So I would want to see more serious rewarding games that don’t require a week to learn and isn’t shovelware casual kind.

But if these won’t happen then I’ll probably be lukewarm about most games and wait till price drops.

Wish I could have joined the live Echo screen, but sucky internet access, what can you do.

Would I buy the Steam Box or any new style of console just right off the shelf? No. I can’t say I would, because i would need to see some serious innovation. Something would have to shock and awe me back to kiddydom to make me want to spend what little cash I have on a a whole new system. There being, the ‘Great Recession’ has not been kind to the gamers, making every single game $60 or more and the consoles going from $200 to almost $700. A new console would have to take in consideration that the gaming market can barely hold the 3 consoles it has, and only because Nintendo’s Wii is not part of the serious gaming market like the PS3 or the XBOX. A new console will have to find a place inside the market that will not push the consumers wallet to extinction, or itself.

Back to innovation, each of the current consoles contains some feature that makes that one unique. The Wii has the motion controls, but the other systems have that too. It’s real draw is 1: being Nintendo, our faithful friend who has all the titles that made our childhoods awesome, and 2: its a system that anyone can pick up. The PS3 has the extreme hardware and graphics power that make it not only a gaming platform but a media center. The XBOX 360’s main draw, other than HALO, was XBOX Live, but Sony has moved into that market too. The system was really built to be a competitor to the PS3 and unless the 720 can step it up a notch, I can see the PS4 dominating it. So possibly Valve’s console, if it successful, could take Microsoft’s gaming throne. Still the console would need something that makes it speak the user. What would be really cool would be more immersion. Something that would get us into the game even more. Not just quick time events or flailing a wand around. A new and unheard of form of game immersion will win the console a place on Walmart’s shelves, not just an already existing fan-base.

Hey commodore thanks a ton for making me feel welcome to the community! I found out about your site through Chris and Kyle’s mediasandwich episode you appeared in! Since then I have watched all Roo’s 16-bit gems and your painful memories in video gaming. Big fan of both! Then I saw the weekly wringer, watched a few, and thought it’d be a fun activity to partake in everyweek. As for what you said about Courage, I agree totally. I don’t know that I’d name him the ‘best animated series of all” either, but deffinitly in the top 5 for me. Just knew there would be alot of futuramas, simpsons, batmans, and older nicktoons. Just wanted to shine the spotlight on an often underappreciated series.

Now onto this weeks topic. I do not want any new consoles yet, let alone a new company marketing one. As of now I am a senior in highschool and currently work at a Subway resteraunt. I simply do not have the money to purchase a new system. I actually just got a 360 last summer. With college hovering everso closely in the distance, it just would not be an option for me to get a new system. When I herd about the possibilty of the new Xbox this year I got nervous. Glad that has been put to rest though, at least until next year. I also don’t think we have ever fully tapped into the current-gen consoles full potential yet. New systems at this point would be nothing but a cash grab for companies.

A new hardware system WILL be a great thing in the future, but not right now. The economy is down and it is unlikely that people, including myself, will gamble their ever decreasing disposable income on a totally new system. Just think, if the new console was going up against the newest Xbox or Playstation, which would shell out the cash for? Yeah this new system could be cool, but what if it isn’t? If you had the relaible 360 why wouldn’t the 720 be just as great if not greater? In the future when the market is strong then perhaps more people will risk it, which would be good for everyone. The new system would be releasing great games to try to win customers, while the 720 and PS4 would have to step up their games to keep their current customers loyal to them. As things are currently, however, I think most people would be like me an wait to see if the reviews for this new system were any good. While waiting on said reviews, we will likely just buy the upgrade of whichever console from whichever company we like best, be it sony microsoft or nintendo, thus using up the money we had to spend. Leftover money likely being poured into games for that system.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Valve. Portal, Half life, and Team fortress are great games, but can they really break into an already hugely dominated market against companies with loyal and trusting fanbases while there is a down economy that scares people away from risking their dough on a uncertain product? I just don’t think it would be a good decision. Even if steambox is the best system ever, its handicapped launch would likely keep its profits in the red for a long time.

I’m actually going back in time instead of forward so I have no use for a new platform. I’d rather spend my money fleshing out what came before – in particular 16-bit consoles.

Plus lets face it.. 360 wasn’t radically better than X-Box in the same way that PS2 was from PSX. As time goes on the improvement diminishes (human eyes are only so focused on detail and the bright colorful look will need to persist).

Commodore: Buttons & Mindy. Hank Hill wasn’t in Beavis & Butthead. That was Tom Anderson. Though Hank was based on Tom.

As for this week’s Wringer, no. No new console yet. I’ve finally hit my stride with my PS3. I’m not predominantly using it as a Netflix machine. I’m actually playing games on it. Which I still feel terrible about– having it all these years and I’m just now giving it the workout it deserves. Besides, I’m still giving my SNES a killer workout. Buying these games Roo keeps gemming keeps me busy.

Also, I hate Steam. So I’ll never get a Steam Box. Even if it does end up looking like a Companion Cube.

@amadus. Had to put Ninja Scroll in there somewhere, but damned if I can think of anything from America that really compares. Both bloody and action at least. ^^ Matrix and Akira I mostly put together as popular and sci fi. I actually don’t watch alot of mech anime, but believe it. Not a new idea. It’s a wonder Harlan Ellison didn’t try to sue them. (if anyone gets that joke 15,000 nerd points. ^^) Like GTO is tough even though I think alot would love. Onizuka really is an original. Welcome Back Kotter and Dangerous Minds if the teacher were who? Cool Hand Luke, Billy from Easy Rider, McMurphy from One Flew Over the Coocoo’s Nest mixed with Chuck Norris and the 40 yr old Virgin?

Even if we set aside the fact that consoles and games tend to keep going up in price and assumed an ideal world where I had the disposable income to buy any system I wanted, I still don’t think that I would bother to upgrade. I think it’s because the big innovations that I’m aware of, namely motion controls and 3D, still haven’t gotten past gimmick status.

That just leaves cloud storage and the transition from CDs to purely digital downloads. While I think this is the direction that gaming is going in, I don’t think the technology is quite ready for the transition just yet. I’d be worried about wasting my money on the cloud equivalent of, say, Nintendo’s pre-Wii experiments with motion control.There’s also the tendency of game companies to (I think unfairly) hate the idea of used games and an unwillingness to adopt more varied oricing schemes. I’m worried that the next generation would just try to work in new ways to screw over people buying used games and thus become too expensive to remain a viable hobby for me.

What would convince me to jump on the next-gen boat would be to take digital download systems to their logical conclusion and get rid of proprietary games and consoles. Like a box that I can connect to my tv/computer/tablet/whatever and purchase downloads of any game (and I mean anything, from the old stuff that Good Old Games and Wii Virtual sell to the newest PS4/XBox720/whatever games). That would be worth any moderately reasonable price.

I really don’t have time for a new console outside of handhelds. I want a Super Nintendo emulator on my PSP 3000, but am scared to do it because of bad technological knowledge. I’m getting my ass kicked in business information systems (Microsoft Access Queries) although I am competent in Excel in business school. I really want JRPGs with a fast forward option (love emulators for that) to help with grinding.

I’ve been collecting SNES since 2002 in a town limited on second hand stores and gamers. (It’s a sports town). I am content with what I have already.

They NEED to get third parties on board to release older titles. They NEED to charge a decent price $200 to $250. They NEED to price games well $40 to $50 at most. They NEED to have a game selection I want (Platformers 2D and 3D and JRPGs). Metroidvania is also awesome.

I’m actually excited to see what Nintendo has in mind for the Wii U. They’ve been giving out dev kits to game companies, and apparently their reactions were so positive that Microsoft is now trying to emulate the touch screen in their new console. I’m also interested to Pikmin plays on the Wii U, and maybe even Batallion Wars.

Then again, I would also like to have more traditional style games coming out in conjunction with the new. The Iphones have changed so much about gaming, for better or worse, that I can’t help but feel a little threatened by that style of play, having grown up with the older one.

I just don’t have money to invest in any gaming systems right now. I have a library backup of games I hardly play as it is. I think Steam is cool and if it had a console I’d probably like to have it so I can game on one screen and still stay online chatting, but that’s the long and short of it.

I think Nintendo did the best job this last round of bringing people to the table that hadn’t previously been gamers. What the longevity of that is will remain to be seen. But truthfully? I see consoles dying some day in the future and quite possibly in our lifetimes. Steam and my DS are my two main gaming platforms of late.

P.S.: Nice product placement. *notices the cup.* I’m also just a little miffed that your ‘western bias’ turned out to be a complete lack of even mention of any oft he anime titles that were brought up last week. Most of the people who posted on anime seemed to articulate their reasons for liking shows and quite in depth. I mean, you might not know them first hand but not even an honorable mention?

Maybe.. But I don’t think that the Current market can handle it. Also I’m getting tired of the writing in most new games being impossible to read. MF2 for instance.. And I want the gimmickey motion control stuff to end. The don’t work. I also want a decent number of games, ones that aren’t based around online Multiplayer. I.E. Every first person shooter to appear. [ Also on a side note, not really to happy with this one; I heard some great shows though. ]

A new platform would need to be affordable… Like the Wii was when it came out… And yes I am calling Soney out.. I am also getting tired of Microsofts Points system.. If you are going to put a game on the hardware of a system; either give me the full game, or don’t make me spend 20-30 dollars just to get a handfull of Points that is barely enough to buy one DLC game.. If I have to download the full game, make it either free, or cheaper than it is.. I want there to be Backwards compatability that actualy WORKS!!!! I cannot emphasize that enough… about 3/4s of my Xbox games won’t play on my 360… But yet they have every NFL game and Sports game covered…

They NEED to charge a decent price $200 to $250. They NEED to price games well $40 to $50 at most.

This isn’t the 90s anymore. Production costs go up, price goes up. We’re not talking about making a 16-bit game that can be churned out in six months. The production value in games has changed. The prices are fine. Besides, the consoles do cost $250 now.

DLC needs to stop, but the prices are fine.

I’m also just a little miffed that your ‘western bias’ turned out to be a complete lack of even mention of any oft he anime titles that were brought up last week. Most of the people who posted on anime seemed to articulate their reasons for liking shows and quite in depth. I mean, you might not know them first hand but not even an honorable mention?

cartoon =/= anime

He knows the difference. Every once in a while, he deals with absolutes in his discussions. Remember the Sony hacking edition? You strayed off topic in that one, you didn’t get mentioned. This time around, he took cartoon literally.

Do you see now Aestolia why I get so upset hearing anyone (especially an anime fan) talk about anime the way you did. There are people that think they “don’t like anime”. That is an impossibility. You can absolutely detest the animation style and I’ll still find you something that will blow your mind.

I like storytelling. Most anime has batshit insane storytelling, which I hate. Or I hate it because the pacing is flawed. There’s a few out there that I like, but they are rare. So my dislike has little to do with animation quality. Maybe his does as well. Most of those movies you mentioned (I don’t even think I’ve heard of a lot of those series), I absolutely loathed. Especially Ninja Scrolls and Akira.

I can name one anime series I like– Eden of the East. Though I think it would be a million times better if it were a live-action mini series.

Sure, there’s anime you people may like, but as far as good anime, there’s shockingly little. Batman: The Animated Series has achieved nearly universal acclaim and appreciation. There’s almost no anime that everyone agrees on that is a definitive example of excellence.

I love everything Miyazaki has ever done, and Wings of Honneamise (apart from that one scene, WTF?), and a few others, but those mostly aren’t anime. They’re just Japanese animation. So maybe that’s part of the issue, what is, and what isn’t anime.

But after years of being told I would love Ghost in the Shell, I gave it a watch. Anyone who thinks it’s a great movie? Go watch it again. I dare you. You will be bored. To goddamn tiny impotent tears.

There’s almost one cool fight at the end, but it just ends stupidly and confusingly, and some needless nudity. Other than that, a bunch of squawking about stuff they don’t understand. That movie is boring. Beside the point, though, because that movie isn’t anime.

Akira hasn’t aged well, either, and that isn’t even anime.

It doesn’t speak the anime language. It’s just Japanese animation.

Cowboy Bebop is good. But not anime.

Anime is where they have cheap backgrounds, poor story in lieu of fast visuals, blood intermittently pours from people’s noses at the presense of (anatomically impossible) females, giant teardrops form on people’s heads, iron crosses form on their foreheads, smoke muchrooms come out of their mouths from time to time, what the hell is going on?!

None of that makes any sense, and I don’t know who decided these were good conventions to use. But I don’t understand this language. I know I’m supposed to understand what the cluck is going on when this happens onscreen, but I have no idea what it means.

I don’t get it when the characters suddenly turn into tiny starfish-like flipper baby versions of themselves, and wriggle obscenely. When I get upset, I just go in my room and play video games. I don’t relate to anything anime has to give me.

Sure, some of you may love, I don’t know, that My Little Pony show, but not everyone agrees that it’s any good at all. There’s just as much hate for it as love. Find me one anime series that has gotten near universal acclaim, and then we’ll talk.

Just because you happen to like some series, that’s fine, but don’t get confused and think that means it’s actually any good. And when you look at reviews, even reviews among people who like this sort of thing, there is very very little that anyone agrees on is any good at all.

And you’ve seen what’s out there. You know how much excrement exists. Signal to noise, baby.

GTO you might want to check out as you’ve said you liked Clannad and OHSHC. Those are some of the few kindof slice of life dramas aside from Haruhi (which can be offputting. I actually dismissed it out of hand at first watching only the first few episodes.) that I’ve really gotten into. Alot of soap opera caliber high school dramas to wade through (which you might really like for all I know. Hell as a Trekkie maybe you’d go for some of the space/mech stuff I really don’t). Elfen Lied and Claymore I found rather emotionally stimulating, but also supernatural and gory. But anyway. Exactly my point. All of anime isn’t for everybody, doesn’t mean there isn’t something for anyone. No one is going to love absolutely everything that comes out of Hollywood. Absolutely every video game ever made. Every album ever made. Does that mean they should dismiss them in their entirety? Justin Bieber made a crappy album. Guess music just isn’t for me. COD is boring. Guess I don’t like video games.

My thoughts from my first post stay the same, however. I still am interested in a new company to step in and shake things up. As long as it focuses on a diverse library and isn’t something stupid like the n-gage

Me too. My fave. animes have great storylines told well. With taut pacing, well drawn believable characters, and great dialogue. I’m picky. I thought Ghost In the Shell was freaking boring. The series is even worse. Claymore and Monster on the other hand I adore. I didn’t care for Blood Plus (Blood the Last Vampire is epic though), but I loved Kurozuka and HellSing Ultimate. I don’t expect to love every anime that comes down the pike. I have high standards. That’s not the same thing as condemning an entire artistic media for flaws I have found in individual shows from my own limited experience. Dismissing an entire art form just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not a huge fan of Cubism, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize Picasso’s genius. I’m not a huge fan of HS melodramas, and I’ve still managed to find multiple series that I enjoyed. Clannad (miniseries but still), Ouran High School Host Club, Great Teacher Onizuka, and Haruhi. I think that says something about the wide variety of quality and style you can find w/in individual anime genres. It’s great that you’ve found anime you really enjoyed. I bet there’s more out there too. But like any medium, sifting through the dross can be a challenge. I think it’s worth it though.

@Mr. K: cartoon =/= anime

Sure it does. Anime are animated films/series from Japan. Period. All the term means. He also used the term animated series. If he wanted to specify Western animation, he might have wanted to say that up front. It would have made for an incredibly limited dialogue, which in fact it did, but posters would have been aware of that limitation in advance. He actually DID mention one anime in his video: Speed Racer. Old as the hills and soooo not even remotely close to top quality but still anime. I think most posters don’t care if their posts were mentioned or not; I think most of us are either offended that anime is being dismissed as a medium out of hand by someone w/ little to no familiarity w/ the art form. Or (my case) we feel genuinely bad that someone is missing out on an entire medium of expression w/ soooo much to offer good and bad and ugly and indifferent based on what seems like pre judgment. I’m sooo not a weeaboo; I don’t think that everything that comes out of Japan is gold. Like any media there is more anime I dislike than anime I love, but what I like? Has blown my mind in the way all great art can, and ONLY great art can.

@Drastic:It doesn’t speak the anime language. It’s just Japanese animation.

Cowboy Bebop is good. But not anime.

Anime is where they have cheap backgrounds, poor story in lieu of fast visuals, blood intermittently pours from people’s noses at the presense of (anatomically impossible) females, giant teardrops form on people’s heads, iron crosses form on their foreheads, smoke muchrooms come out of their mouths from time to time, what the hell is going on?!

Anime is short for Japanime, or Japanimation. All it means is animation that comes from Japan. Period. Akira and BeBop are anime. There are realistic (drawing style and story) animes. There are ridiculous animes. There are highly stylized cliche and convention ridden animes. There are very elevated and artistic animes. They are all anime. Like any type of creative media there is a vast difference in output even w/in the same genre and certainly across genres. There is a vast difference in quality, style, art styles, writing style. There is the shining example of high art, and the lows of manistream crap. Japanime/Japanimation/anime are also terms coined by Westerners for easy identification of a medium that encompasses an enormous range of style, genres, and target audiences. I’m not surprised that there are Japanese animators who refuse to abide by terminology imposed from the outside especially when it carries w/ it a lot of preconceived assumptions and no little stigma, and keeps their work from even enjoying consideration in discussions like last week’s Wringer.

To Whom It May Concern: I feel like there has been a bit of a backlash against anime as it has gained popularity in the US. I count myself freaking lucky if Hollywood comes out w/ ONE film that I really enjoy every 5 years or so. It’s a miracle if television does the same. I haven’t had a good mind freak courtesy of either in over a decade. (Monster did that for me.) That doesn’t mean I am going to just stop watching movies or television. It seems to me that anime is sometimes held to a higher standard and dismissed as a whole because not everything lives up to its hype. It’s becoming chic to say “I DUN LIEK ANIME” in a lot of geek circles. That’s probably mostly the fault of rabid weeaboo fans who push utter tripe at people, or suggest random shows w/out taking the trouble to find out what kind of films, genres and series that individual enjoys, but still. I would never dismiss an entire creative media w/out so much as even familiarizing myself w/ all of its subgenres and a broad base of its most critically acclaimed output. And that is exactly what a lot of people do to anime. As an anime fan for more than 20 years, this saddens me. There is some great stuff out there that people are missing out on. < / 3

I dare ANYONE who likes suspense/crime dramas to watch EVERY episode of Monster, and then tell me they don’t like anime. It’s that good. I dare any splatter/gore fest/exploitation film lover to watch every episode of High School of the Dead.

On topic: I’d be interested in a Valve console, if they kept to their Steam roots and still offered great small and indie developer, innovative and original games (like Amnesia), and didn’t fall into the big franchise, shovelware, no risks trap that the Big Three have by and large. (I’m not claiming there are no exceptions just that more and more of all three’s product falls into one of these three categories.)

Alright, I feel kind of like I started this whole mess with my comment in last weeks wringer.

~walks back 3 weeks ago and picks up the Shit Disturber Trophy once more~

So I’m going to say a few things.

@Mog – First and foremost I NEVER lumped all Anime together as a single genre. I will admit that the wording at the begining of the paragraph was unfairly vague, but if you read past the second sentence I was quite clear. I largely lumped the genres together. I also mentioned in a follow up post that I never meant to imply that it is unique to Anime, and yes you’re quite right, MOST tv does suffer that.

That comment directed at me, was quite unfair, especially considering you even supported my claim by saying all TV is like that. All TV would include the various genre’s of anime as well. Heck you said yourself “I actually don’t watch alot of mech anime.” Really? So you have an opinion based on a genre of Anime? This is exactly what my comment of “Bloody violence anime are bloody violence anime, mecha anime are mecha anime” was refering to.

Besides, comparing Live action anything to animated anything? For shame! And when you start mentioning titles like Ninja Scroll, and Berserk as good anime all your credibility goes right out the window :p

@Maze – While I understand you claim of the backlash against anime, I bevelieve there is another contributing factor that you didn’t mention. Now I’m going to start by reiterating that I do love me some anime, I can obsess with the best of fans. However, there is an aspect of the “Serious anime fan” who is almost blinded by the anime. These are the kinds of anime fans who come up and claim that for whatever it is you enjoy there’s an anime out there that does it better and that you’ll like more. This kind of.. fanatic peer pressure is subject to Newtonian law like anything else. This huge influx of anime into western culture, combined with the hardcore anime fans who do seriously try to push it on people (not saying that all of them do), creates this counter backlash against it.

Commodore brings up a very valid point on the cultural issue. A lot of the sensibilities and humour are different. Someone who hasn’t watched much anime quite likely “won’t get it”. This doesn’t mean they won’t ever like it, or that there aren’t some things they may enjoy, but they’ve chosen not to expose themselves to it. You know might be some wierd Sweedish animation out there that trumps everything I’ve seen, but I’d be hard pressed to speak about it if I’ve never seen it. I’m sure if the right title found it’s way to him, he’d enjoy it as much as anyone else. That doesn’t mean he’ll turn into ‘anime fan’ but it doesn’t mean he can’t enjoy a specific anime.

Yeah I’d be cool with a new console, however I would subject it to my current criteria. Here they are in order of importance:

1. Backwards capatability: I searched the internet and ebay for a 1st gen PS3 just so I could have my backwards compatability. For this reason most other systems start off a little behind Sony. However if Sony’s new box isn’t back compatable, then everyone would be on equal footing.

2. Exclusive title: If this is essentially just a console that does steam, well it would be a detriment, since I can always just go to my computer.

3. Extras: What else can it do? For example 360 vs PS3 gave me the choice of HDDVD or BluRay. Does it support home networks for media streaming? What about Netflix, or even your home cable, making it a media center?

4. Price: do I need to go into this?

5. Launch titles: If it’s 50 bucks cheaper, but only has crap available, then why bother?

Any new system on the market gets the same treatment in my eyes, especially considering the number of titles that just get blanket launches anyways.

A note on DTX180’s link though: Completely doing away with a disk drive is a poor idea. Yes it will (theoretically) have the benefit of being able to offer a lower launch price, but you’re giving up the ability to have it act as a dvd / brd player. while this isn’t a big deal, some people like having their media center come in as few different boxes as possible.

Also many people still have slow, limited, or capped internet. What’s that? Monkey Island 12 3D comes out on the 20th? well my provider won’t let me DL it until the new month… sucks that I can’t just go to the store and buy it. Maybe if they put in support for SD cards and made it like a SD card game drive thing… that could work. I mean if you can get a 8GB SDHC card for 8 bucks, surely it can’t break the bank to move game production onto them… it would also be more resistant than discs, a kind of return to the cartridge days.

Quick note: I completely agree with Mog, Commodore. It’s very unfair (both to yourself and to anime) to say you dislike all anime unless you have suffered some sort of trauma from it or something. I’ve watched plenty of really crappy anime (unintentionally, of course) and way more really good anime. It’s hit or miss, just like American animation. And yeah, its all taste again too. Many people list their favourite animes and I cannot stand them. I’m sure the same could be said of my choices.

Comment on this WW: I’ll condense my thoughts since they’re rather fragmented and since the topic was almost pure opinion, I can’t rightly say anyone is wrong (although, I do disagree with a lot of peoples’ choices :P).

I forgot to mention My Gym Partner’s a Monkey. I f’in loved that show. Tom Kenny is the man, and it was just so brilliantly funny. Tragic that it hasn’t gotten more attention.

I’m not in love with Courage the Cowardly Dog, however, I still think it’s a very noteworthy piece of animation. I was just a little too scarred by that show, I think. Whenever I think of it, I think of the Doc Hamster episode. Creeped me out SO BAD! Probably still would if I watched it again.

John DiMaggio — one of the best VAs… period. Love him. If I met him, I’d scream like a little girl.

Looney Tunes — Good call. After all of my years of studying animation, how I could overlook it is beyond me. Still not my favourite ever, but amazing and instructive. My favourites are probably the Opera based ones (Ride of the Valkyries and Barber of Seville) and Duck Amock. Really, any of the Chuck Jones ones are masterfully done.

QotW: Nope. Not interested. I’m not made of dolla dolla billz, y’all. Also, Lucky had a great point about backwards compatability. Hook me up with true backwards compatability for my PS4 (or whatevs) and I’m happy. Also, I agree with pretty much everything Lord of Nothing said… so I won’t waste anyone’s time saying it again. I know, insightful of me this week, eh?

Aestolia “Alright, I feel kind of like I started this whole mess with my comment in last weeks wringer.”

Not at all. To me it was like asking for the greatest video game of all time and then saying “I don’t like games from Japan”. I mean no Zelda, Mario, or Chrono Trigger? It’s ridiculous. Had you said nothing last week I would still have had to try and corrupt Commodore and/or argue with Japanophobes.

Aestolia. “That comment directed at me, was quite unfair, especially considering you even supported my claim by saying all TV is like that.“

I also said anime was less like that then American television. You were and are focusing on the negatives. You still find that to be necessary especially after the entirety of animation from Japan has been completely dismissed? How dare you claim to like anime.

“”Aestolia. “ comparing Live action anything to animated anything?”

Only thing that can compare to alot of anime. Batman TAS? Ninja Turtles? I’ve seen every episode. I owned every ninja turtle toy. They’re about on par with Naruto and I can’t stand Naruto. We don’t have adult animation on television here that isn’t comedy.

Aestolia. “So you have an opinion based on a genre of Anime?“

Not really. One of my favorite anime is Maze: The Megaburst Space.

Aestolia. “when you start mentioning titles like Ninja Scroll, and Berserk as good anime all your credibility goes right out the window.”

We’re all different. Better throw out something better than Deathnote or .hack you want to criticize my love of mindless violence though. Clearly havn’t seen Monster to even bring up Deathnote. Should I lump .hack in with Digimon or Gormiti?

@Aestolia: While I understand you claim of the backlash against anime, I bevelieve there is another contributing factor that you didn’t mention. Now I’m going to start by reiterating that I do love me some anime, I can obsess with the best of fans. However, there is an aspect of the “Serious anime fan” who is almost blinded by the anime. These are the kinds of anime fans who come up and claim that for whatever it is you enjoy there’s an anime out there that does it better and that you’ll like more. This kind of.. fanatic peer pressure is subject to Newtonian law like anything else. This huge influx of anime into western culture, combined with the hardcore anime fans who do seriously try to push it on people (not saying that all of them do), creates this counter backlash against it.

Commodore brings up a very valid point on the cultural issue. A lot of the sensibilities and humour are different. Someone who hasn’t watched much anime quite likely “won’t get it”. This doesn’t mean they won’t ever like it, or that there aren’t some things they may enjoy, but they’ve chosen not to expose themselves to it. You know might be some wierd Sweedish animation out there that trumps everything I’ve seen, but I’d be hard pressed to speak about it if I’ve never seen it. I’m sure if the right title found it’s way to him, he’d enjoy it as much as anyone else. That doesn’t mean he’ll turn into ‘anime fan’ but it doesn’t mean he can’t enjoy a specific anime.

Actually I did mention that factor. That’s what I meant by the whole ” weeaboos who think everything that comes out of Japan is gold and push a lotta tripe at people w/out taking the individual’s taste into account” thing. I wouldn’t ever say that. But I think there is probably an anime that does something in that same or a similar genre as well. Except maybe for stuff like Apocalypse Now and the 90’s Romeo and Juliet. Not sure if there is an anime genre that would encompass Vietnam war flicks and modernizations of Shakespeare. And I certainly don’t mean to imply there haven’t been films that blew my mind: A Clockwork Orange, the aforementioned Apocalypse Now and Romeo and Juliet, Natural Born Killers. Are there anime that have completely duplicated those experiences? Of course not. All true art is unique. But there ARE anime that have given me equally great and unique experiences. Monster, Kurozuka, maybe even Haruhi in its own insane performance art inspired fashion. But yeah, I think a lot of it is backlash against Japanophile super fans, or even the possibility of being PERCEIVED as a weeaboo. Most of us are already suspect because we like video games.

That only goes for the comedies though, and it’s not a 100% either. I think everyone regardless of their cultural extraction who has seen a post apocalyptic movie featuring some total bamf going around killing masses of whatever invading force is attempting to destroy civilization (aliens, giant robots, zombies, what have you) and being heroic would find a show like Full Metal Panic? that shows how out of place that character would be in a normal HS setting pretty hilarious. We’ve all seen movies like that. It bridges a lot of cultural gaps. But in general I agree, Japanime comedies are not something I would recommend to a newer audience. Iono, I’ve seen a lot of animated German pr0n; it was pretty out there (even compared to hentai!) TBF. =D I’ve seen some pretty decent French stuff though that I thought was bee-ooh-ti-ful (not pr0n). < 3

Exactly. And it’s a far cry from saying there aren’t a lot of anime series/movies one likes, to dismissing the entire medium in toto. I’m sure if he gave the right show an unbiased chance, he’d enjoy it. Whether he’d like most anime? Who knows. There’s a lot of junk. I don’t like most anime. There’s just too much out there for that to be possible. I’m very picky. I know a lot of people my age and older who don’t like cartoons in general and can’t think of anything animated in a serious way. It’s not a concept they can accept. Me? I grew up on Ralph Bakshi; it was easy for me to accept when I got my first intro to anime in the late 80’s. But if you ALREADY like cartoons, I don’t get drawing the line at anime unless it is out of some preconceived idea of what that term means and entails. =(

I would have to say it depends. The xbox 360 and ps3 are so similar in the game library aspect, if there is another system with only a couple of exclusives like the 360 and ps3 then that is not enough of an incentive to buy a whole new system. Even though knowing me I would buy it anyways. I find game systems need more exclusives to make them worth-while. I mean the only exclusives I love are mostly for the Wii, except Halo. We need more big name amazing games (and also exclusive) to make a new system worth our money.

Do I personally feel that the video game market is ready for the next set of conoles? Yes. Do I feel like what will be given to the market will be innovative enough to win over those who have entered the current console generation within the past, say, three years? I don’t feel like it. In terms of the next-generation of home consoles, we’ve only seen the Wii U, but even after looking at it, I don’t feel like it’s innovative enough to actually advance the market. I have a very sinking feeling that the next generations of Sony and Microsoft consoles, as well as the potential Valve console will not be innovative enough to push the market into a transition needed to get consumers to actively want to buy them. I also fear that innovation with the next set of competitive hardware won’t actually start occuring until at least a year after the initial release.

I’m honestly just afraid that there won’t be enough inovation to put down three-hundred or more dollars to make getting a new console worth it; I’m scared that there just won’t be enough innovation early on, which is absolutely needed to advance to a deeper, newer market of both software and hardware. As such, I hope that the major players actually experiment to find some sort of legitimate innovations before releasing hardware to the market. We’ve seen blu-ray capabilities, we’ve seen motion capabilities, we’ve seen online capabilities. We’ve seen a lot of innovation within this past generation; we can’t just go through the same song and dance again, just with some different paint. It’ll take a lot to actually put some new cards down, at this rate.

Derp!Edit: I also forgot to say that I’m happy to join you guys in discussing now, after watching the WR for about… five or so months? I’m honestly glad that this question is the first one that I’m responding to.

I don’t own a PS3 or XBox, and I think that this gen of consoles have been stagnating over the last couple of years. Yes, Microsoft and Sony throw out new toys like motion controls, following the Wii’s footsteps, but those aren’t made with the hardcore gamer in mind. I bought a Wii when it came out, but not because of motion controls (I found them to be actually pretty lame until wii motion plus came around, which should have been there from the beginning). I bought a Wii purely because I wanted to play the new Mario Galaxy, the next Metroid, the next Smash Bros, etc. It’s all about the games. So normally I would say, when a new console hits the market, there are 2 main factors: The exclusive games, and the price. Are the games good enough to justify a higher price? And when almost all of the games that I’m interested in will also be playable on a PC, then I have no reason to buy that console.

But… The concept of the Steam Box (which Doug Lombardi already demented) as I understand it is, that it would be a PC-console-hybrid. So it functions like a new PC with possibly a lower price tag than a real new high-end PC, but would guarantee that it can run all new games smoothly on the highest graphical settings. No need to buy new hardware every year just to keep up. I’m not sure how that would exactly work, but in that case I would just buy a Steam Box and use it as a PC. The games wouldn’t be a factor anymore.

HL3 as a launch title however would have been pretty convincing. :O I would buy a new PC just for that game alone.

First of all, sorry for not posting in a while I have been really busy.

If Valve (or any comapany) were to release a new new to compete the Big 3, they would need to release some kick ass games that were only available for this new Steam console. I don’t think this would be a huge problem because the PC client of steam is a open to all developers creating and releasing games for it, I don’t see they would not do this for the new console should they release it.

One of the main reasons why the IOS platforms are soo successful is that anyone is able to create games for these devices which has led to mega hits such as Angry Birds and Plants vs Zombies.

Indie devs would go crazy for the fact that they would be able to make a games that would not be able to before because of the restrictions on XBLA and PSN.

Who knows maybe one of these indie dev create the next Angry Birds for this new Steam console which would ony make consumers more incline to buy this new console.

Also cross platform multiplayer would be a cool selling point. They have already done this before with the PS3 and Portal 2, having this work for all of the their games would put Microsoft on the outside looking in since they do not way to support this feature.

First off i would like to say that i DID infact mention Ren and Stimpy in last weeks wringer, going on to say that it was my favorite show of all times. But i felt like Loony Tunes needed to enter the conversation.

Also big kudos to you Mr Commodore for actually saying my full name when mentioning one of my comments. I laugh my ass off every time i hear it.

Anyway on to this weeks wringer. Am i ready for a new console? No not realy. Mostly cuz i dont have a lot of money so it would be hard for me to get a new console. I spend enuf on the current gen systems. Im also a collecter so im always getting games as it is. Also i dont play on steam at all. I really dont play a lot of pc games anymore at all honestly.

What would i want on a new console? Backwards compatability is a big one. Id like it to play Bluray and dvds on it. Its gonna have to be able to use netflix. It would be nice if game fly did some sort of download rental thing. Wireless conectivity is a must. A web browser would be nice. But at the end of the day a system is only as good as its library so its gonna have to have an impressive roster of launch titles. And maybe…oh i dont know… include a fucking game with the system?! Remember when they used to do that? All the time? For every console? That was great back in the day. Companys have stopped doing this (for the most part) for a long time now and its BS.

Also i dont realy want any gimmicky shit like the Wii or Kinect or Move. I absolutely hate kinect and think its one of the worst things ever. I realy dont like the Wii either and its a shame because some of the games i realy wanted to play, games that might have got me to buy a Wii, had stupid ass motion controlls that you couldnt change. Some games allow you to just use a regular controller but not all of em and that was a real deal breaker for me. The Wii is the only Nintendo system i dont have actually.

Just so everyone knows, I’m talking about a brand new console in general, and not a Steambox.

In the 90s, when Atari and Sega were still making gaming consoles, it was obvious Nintendo was the top dog. But why? It seemed that Nintendo made far better quality games than their competition, and that’s what’s key here.

A lot of gaming consoles had a very short life span, mostly because developers were hesitant to spend money on making a game for a console that doesn’t have any notable or stand-out games or characters like Nintendo or Sega. I think everyone knows that the game that undoubtedly sold people on the original Xbox was the first Halo, which kind of revolutionized the FPS genre, and when Sonic rolled onto the Genesis, gaming found a new rival to Mario, which stepped up the competition between Nintendo and Sega to create the better games.

We know new gaming consoles are supposed to innovate and have better performance than their predecessors, but if the machine has no quality games or a “the game that sold the <insert gaming console here>”, developers will be hesitant to create games for that platform because they don’t want to see their money go to waste.

As far as the Steambox goes, I don’t plan on getting one as I don’t use Steam at all, but my brothers use it quite often, as I’ve talked to them about it and 1 of my 3 brothers told me that they’re interested.

I bought a Wii purely because I wanted to play the new Mario Galaxy, the next Metroid, the next Smash Bros, etc. It’s all about the games. So normally I would say, when a new console hits the market, there are 2 main factors: The exclusive games, and the price.

Yeah, right here! TreuloseTomate definitely hit a strong point. And there’s only so much of that we can take too. For example the Kingdom Hearts series has jumped platforms and devices/consoles like an A.D.D. kid with a bucket of bees on his head. Quick way for me to drop the series.

(Plus I’m a predominantly PC gamer, so I agree on the next point he made too).

Hey there, Commodore! Just found this site about 2 weeks ago after being linked to 16 bit gems (can’t remember where from though XD) but I’ve quickly become a fan of both you and Roo. Thankfully I was off the day I discovered the site because I spent….ALL DAY on here going through the videos!

As per the question;

Yes and no? Yes because, I’m very interested to see what exactly would be produced. Something interesting I’ve been hearing on various sites is people saying they would like to see Sega jump back into the race which (though that would be silly because of their partnership with nintendo these days) but still interesting I suppose. Interested like I said though!

No because…well I’m sure there are many out there that kind have the same “Man..another console I’m sure I’ll want to purchase” feeling.

Overall, I’m not really ready for the current consoles to go away. I feel like we’re about to enter an generation of more…gimmicky gaming? I guess this is just coming from more of the “hardcore” gamer perspective rather than the “casual” but I don’t really care too much about the 3D, the motion controls, the touch screens. At the same time though..I feel torn because it’s very obvious what those things have done for gaming overall, which is bring in a large number of people into the gaming world, even if it is just a foot in the door for 1 or 2 wii titles. You can see it’s had an impact.

I want to see the quality of games increase overall, rather than the hardware. I’m kinda the classic RPG type, so I’m looking for that crisp voice acting, the engaging story line, the memorable and in depth characters, the polished battle mechanics.

* Digital service available for all games (ala like how steam works for PC). Space in the room for game boxes as more and more new games consoles come along is a growing issue for all gamers. We all love to hang on to game boxes but the problem at some point or another comes along that we need to save space (physical space) to put things, and digital offers the solution to this. The issue of whether or not the company behind the service will still be around in x amount of years is a problem with this solution however.

* Full backwards support (if the new console is from an established franchise such as playstation, xbox etc). To further assist with the room saving mentioned above, offering backwards compatibility is a further thing that I look for in new systems.

* Good upcoming and existing games line-up that doesn’t just stick to one category. A problem with consoles of the current generation is that they tend to have games prediminately of certain categories (Western PC Style RPGs and FPS games) which is fine, but I like more variety in my gaming. So a system with great games across a variety of genres is something that I look for. If it doesn’t have this then I wont bother with it.

* Online multiplayer. In todays world you have to have online multiplayer. If you don’t no’one will buy your console.

Thank you sir. My friend was pointing out to me how much it cost him to run an Xbox 360 which he replaced a few times with Live and games. And it was like a few thousand. And I think I was the first one to say that, like oh what are you talking about. But then I realised how much I rely on credit cards to keep my gaming going because of budget issues and it is damn expensive when you don’t think about.

You have to look at the entire cost of living. If you adjust prices for inflation obviously you have to adjust salaries as well. And what makes something expensive is not the numbers but how much of a percentage it takes from your income. They used VERY primitive math of estimated inflation rate of 2 – 2.5% over the course of 20 years yileds them a 40% increase in that price. Good exercise in high school math and junior school writing. They take no consideration into salary caps, gas prices and just general state of economy and cost of living. It’s like they are trying to convince people to spend money because it’s “cheaper” now. And it’s not the first article I see like that.

So even if we dwell on the fact that we are fictionally paying less for games it doesn’t change the fact that we are paying double for gas (inflation included) without it triple. We have cellphone bills in an average of $60 dollars per person and over $100 for a household. Tuiton costs, food, computers that we HAVE to have that were an option back in 1993. So it’s really silly to assume it costs us less. While in reality it costs us more because percentage wise it’s taking out a bigger chunk of the money we have left after paying all our bills. Because we didn’t have to pay for all these things in 1993.

I think the only point of articles like this is to make us spend $70 on a game that is going to be worth $20 in a year.

i have a ps3 and a wii in my opinion a ps3 and Xbox are basically the same in terms of its games, i think a new company should step up and make a new game system and make diffrent games. But i think this could be hard since the exsisting game companies cant seem to make an original game. and it would probably be hard to find any reputable game designers to help back up your system. i think it would end up sort of lioke the turbo Grafx 16 in the sence that no one would leave nintendo to make a game for them

Next generation platforms are going to be interesting. The market cannot survive 3 semi-identical platforms. Had the Wii been a normal platform and/or Blu-Ray not won over HD-DVD, the PS3 would’ve died. The Playstation and X-Box have an interesting problem for their next system. Microsoft isn’t going to pay Sony and add a blu-ray player to their system, and likewise Sony can’t have Directx on their system because of Microsoft pratically owning it.

In my mind, a successful new video game console and handheld is impossible until one of the current makers goes away. Although a “steambox” isn’t going to happen, it would be a terrible idea and would start a very bad trend. Steam is a horrible thing, and its popularity is one of the worst thing to happen to pc gaming. Same goes for Origin and all other like programs. A console version of it is just as horrible, and if the X-box 720 uses digital media only, then I will stay away from that as well.

Absolutely not. I haven’t had the money to toss at a new console since the Wii and only got my Xbox and PS3 due to them being gifts. A new system would have to perform unspeakable acts upon me nightly for me to even give it a second look, or play a Mario game, but that’s just me! My backlog of games has reached its perfect stregnth to the point that should I have to be locked in a bunker for the rest of my life with just some Dr. Pepper and my game systems, I would still never have to dip back into my old pool of games. A new system now, especially from one that doesn’t even need to waste their time with one since their service is already on a beast of system (the PC), is just pointless. Let the current market slug it out for another round. Let’s see some more bloodsport before a new challenger arises. Let’s see a fatality, and then step in. Nintendo and Sony are both wobbling on their feet; give it a generation and we’ll see a knockout eventually.

Wow, this is a question I should have thought of. Sorry for the late comment but been very busy recently.

I’m dizzy with thoughts on the question but very few answers come to mind… Hardware has very little to gain “generationally” at this point compared to past consoles. Buyers care less and less about graphics and more about gameplay these days. New 2-D releases are showing up more and more and gamers are loving it.

If a new system was released which pushed the idea of classic gaming (and I mean “classic” more than “8-bit” or “16-bit”) and capable developers were on board such as Konami, Capcom, or Square-Enix (c’mon Square!); I would buy that system on the release date.

It’s not a crazy idea…. look at Super Meat Boy or Mega Man 9 and 10 (plus many others). Gamers from the 80’s have the money developers want. Make the games we want on the hardware that does!

Buyers care less and less about graphics and more about gameplay these days.

What? I have not seen that, most people complain about graphics when they are not up to today’s realistic look.

@Rabbitfrog I know that video games can add up since I started in January 2011 to keep track of where my money was going and I was on average spending $75 a month on video games. At least today I dropped that to a max of $20 a month.

On a side note I am so glad I was in Notepad when I pressed Alt+F4 to start selecting text.

Buyers care less and less about graphics and more about gameplay these days.

I think the comment is more in reference to the growth of retro games and more simplistic games, like the iphones type apps which do have crisp, but not ‘realistic’ graphics. Whether you like them or not, a lot of casual games have more cartoony or stylized graphics rather than the realistic grit that’s prevailant in FPS and other genres.

I had a hard time getting my mom to accept Wild ARMs 3 because of its’ cell shading because she seemed to expect every RPG down the pipeline to look like Final Fantasy X or better. Graphical prejudices will always come into play.

While I prefer the gameplay, story, controls, and music to be top notch, I can live with more stylzed or cartoony games.

You have to look at the entire cost of living. If you adjust prices for inflation obviously you have to adjust salaries as well. And what makes something expensive is not the numbers but how much of a percentage it takes from your income. They used VERY primitive math of estimated inflation rate of 2 – 2.5% over the course of 20 years yileds them a 40% increase in that price. Good exercise in high school math and junior school writing. They take no consideration into salary caps, gas prices and just general state of economy and cost of living. It’s like they are trying to convince people to spend money because it’s “cheaper” now. And it’s not the first article I see like that.

Deflation of the US currency is another factor that is conveniently not addressed. All of these factors negatively impact the buying power of most Americans and of the dollar itself. The buying power of the Federal minimum wage in the early 90’s was only 40% of what it was in the 60’s. And things have only gotten worse in the decades since.

Well, you know I think if we keep digging it, we’ll only get more bad news and stop buying games alltogether.

Speaking of which, on the topic of how ‘mobile platforms’ are seen as a threat to consoles. I happen to disagree. What big game companies don’t realise is that no one stole their consumers. They left by choice. Mostly because people started realising how much crap they were fed. I am sorry to say t hat my biggest enjoyment of last year was a $5 game on a mobile platform (final fantasy), I have put more effort and more desire into finishing it then I have into any other game on a console. I can’t explain it. But noone dragged me there or lured me there, if anything people were screaming how horrible gaming is on phones. And yet it’s a perfect platform for turn based jrpgs.

Look at all these articles saying how it’s cheaper to game, look at all those perfect scores, well, at least all these high scores. I swear if it’s not a sound of a guilty conscience of an industry. Sort of appologizing for everything and trying to make up when it’s too late. Even a game like GTA4. A fine game, I mean if anything it’s GTA3 HD to me, I was so bored with it. It’s nice, but seriously a “masterpiece”? I don’t know.

Well that was kind of precisely my point, that GTA3 was more groundbreaking when it came out and GTA4 is technically a re-hash with updated graphics (hence my calling it GTA3 HD). And that’s why I questioned the “masterpiece” status. I said I was bored with GTA4 because how similar it was.

In fact, I’ll take it a step further and say not only would I be down but I am HOPING that we get a completely new console (if its Valve, even more so) because, quite frankly, PS3/360 isn’t cutting it for me.

You know what made the Genesis/SNES wars such an exciting time for gamers? The answer isn’t nostalgia. Rather it was a little thing called VARIETY. When you decided to side with Sonic or Mario, you weren’t so much choosing a different console as you were choosing completely different ways of thinking; Genesis representing “attitude” and catering to Generation X (their version of MK featuring full-on blood), SNES representing timelessness and clean fun (at no point does Mario put on cool red sneakers). You got COMPLETELY different experiences with these consoles.

Can we really say that Sony and Microsoft offer such a difference? I don’t think so… not when you take into account the number of devs who are just going multiplatform and the fact that 360 and PS3 have essentially been stealing each other’s ideas for the past 7 years. Ironically the Wii, the one console that has offered something completely different in this current generation, is shunned by most core gamers.

I think a new console that is bringing something different, and I am talking radically different here, is just what this industry needs. The console would have to differentiate itself from all the others beyond variation in online services and exclusive software. I want a console that is different almost on a philosophical level rather than merely technological. That’s what I want.

Still disagree. Aside from a sandbox world named “Liberty City,” these two are nothing alike. The characters from GTA4 are not likeable, the story is boring the world sucks. The world of GTA3, which I am including Vice City and San Andreas in this, is far better.

All of the humor that was in GTA3 and its sequels made these games a memorable experience. GTA4 is just too serious for its own good. It lacks the ability to laugh at itself. To call it a rehash is insulting to GTA3.

I said I was bored with GTA4 because how similar it was.

I was angry it wasn’t similar enough. I was hoping for the next chapter in the war between the Leones and Forellis. That didn’t happen. It wasn’t half as conceptually polished as GTA3 was.

Well, ok I didn’t really mean to overanalyze it like that at all. Or to insult you or any game. It’s just my opinion. It was just a random example. I agree with you gone is the nonsense dialog and everything is just dark. GTA3 is great. I understand that. That is not my point. I was doing exactly that – pointing out the graphical look of the game, how many of the buildings, cars and areas look exactly the same just with updated textures. I am trying to stay on topic here by saying that this generation the experience was largely shallow. I am really not trying to pick at the story and the settings of any game in particular. Just bringing it to a conclusion regarding buying a new console and how I seriously doubt I would be able to get anything new out of it because I wasn’t able to get that out of current systems (with a few exceptions). I called it what I did because that was just my opinion of it, other people call it a masterpiece.

Anyway I appologize I didn’t describe these games in a perfect manner, it’s obvious you are a fan, but I am not trying to spam the board with off topic discussions let’s just settle on the fact that you are right and I should’ve made my point more clear, which I will try to do next time, so that we can put the matter at rest.

Hoax or not, the Steam box would be of little desire to me – I sorta already own it!

This current generation of games and game systems have left a bad taste in my mouth, and I frankly don’t know if I’d much interest at all in anything else that’ll come down the road. My experience with games on the current consoles have ranged from reasonable enjoyment (such as Final Fantasy XIII) to flat-out disgust (Metroid: Other M), and a variety of games that have stayed within that “meh <—> ugh” level. That being said, I still play my SNES more than any other console.

However, going back to my original point, after hitting a reasonable amount of disposable income (mmm… scholarships after graduating…), I decided to rebuild my computer as a powerhouse of a gaming rig – as opposed to just a reasonably capable one. Now Skyrim runs fantastic, and looks a heck of a lot prettier than the version my fiancée has been playing on the PS3. Back when Portal 2 brought me back to using Steam, I discovered that there were a ton of indie titles, most of which arguable more enjoyable than the AAA monsters designed for consoles. I still list “Blocks that Matter” as my favorite game of 2011, and I freaking loved “VVVVVV”, “Bastion”, “1000 Amps”, and a whole list of other games I bought for well under $20 (heck, I got “VVVVVV” on sale for a /dollar/).

Granted, some of those indie titles started out on, or were ported to the 360 or 3DS or what-not, but I ran it on a computer that also, incidentally, runs Terranigma! To sum up my answer – no, I’ve kinda given up on my interest in consoles. They’ve been a big part of my life since the Oddyessy 2, but I think I’ve moved on. I find much more enjoyment playing games on my PC, be it indie or big-budget ones.

Edit – Oh! And there’s no “T” in my name~ I came up with this handle back in high school when I stuck “Serges” (from Mega Man X2) into a your-name-in-Japanese website. I have since earned a BA in Japanese, but still pronouce it like “suh-ROO-juh-sue”. S’all good, though – I used to get called Serujitsu a lot, though, particulaly on Vent during WoW raids~

I agree 100% with Namekian’a first point, about how three run-of-the-mill consoles can’t survive. I’ve been hoping for the past several years that one of the “big three” would just up and go third party. Though the sad result of that would be if I had to choose which company based on this last two generations of consoles I’d have to pick Nintendo to leave the console business. That breaks my heart as I’ve been doing some pretty serious 16-bit gaming lately (Super Mario RPG, Super Punch Out, and Actraiser, etc) and that made me realize how awesome Nintendo WAS. While Nintendo has the best first party games, their hardware has been the worst (both power wise and control wise) for over a decade. Now aside from new types of controllers the three consoles are going to be pretty much the same (as far as we know now). At some point something has to give.

I also disagree with Namekian on his second point about Steam. I think it has been the best thing for PC gaming in a LONG time. In alot of ways it’s the only thing keeping PC gaming alive. But I know where you are coming from, I too love to “own” my software and I have a collection of over 300 physical games. BUT, having said that, I gave Steam a try and I had to admit that it really does all that it promises. I’ve gone through 3 PC builds in the last few years and it was nice having Steam there to keep my PC collection “in the cloud”; so easy to install and patch games. No longer do I have to spend hours installing and switching disks. I think that as long as there is a happy median between physical media and digital media, I am happy with something like Steam managing the installs/patches/online play, etc.

I am ready for the next gen but I also know that it’s going to be the last “traditional” generation of home consoles…

I don’t get the Nintendo hate. I for one have been playing the hell out of the new Kirby. Almost double the Wii’s sold as 360’s. Have you seen the Wii U controller? Looks awesome to me. No more friend codes? I’m totally buying a Wii U. I’m sorry. The whole Microsoft charging for slightly better online thing isn’t going to last. Look at countries where online gaming is huge. The games that do the best are free. LOTR is now, right? Is WoW yet? All of the ones I play are. When it comes down to it no one ever gives a crap which system has the best anything except games. I think Nintendo has more than proven by now they have enough in house talent to sustain the crappiest of systems. Sorry dreamers. Nintendo isn’t going anywhere. N64 and Gamecube couldn’t kill them and no system can.

Same here, but when the term three run-of-the-mill consoles is throw in this annoys me for the fact that Nintendo does stuff differently whereas Sony and Microsoft consoles (plus lets throw the PC into it) they are pretty much the same, so saying Nintendo should leave the console market would literally make all gaming platforms have similar games. Plus lets not forget that Nintendo dominates the handheld console market, and no to me the mobile market and the handheld market are not the same.

LOL I am not a big fan of The Simpsons. Back when I was a kid, sure. Because there wasn’t much on, and I guess I felt I had to like it (the good arcade game, the stickers, “eat my shorts,” etc.). But last time I watched, I just didn’t find them all that funny. Maybe I will if I watch them again now, but I’m in no rush.

A new competitive platform…? Yes. I’d be up for it. But, not just “another” platform like XBox was. Not just a platform that has slightly better graphics, or whatever. I want a platform that explores gaming “lostech,” if you will. LOL. There are so many technological dead ends in video gaming that can be explored properly now that our technology has developed and there’s enough money in the industry.

The most obvious one is virtual reality. It was headache-inducing in the 90’s, among all the other problems. But now you can have HD displays with a good refresh rate, with suitable apparent distance from the view (mirrors, prisms, fiber optics, etc. can increase that distance). Imagine having a full field of view in your video games. Imagine having peripheral vision. It’d improve lots of different kinds of games. 3D Sonic games, for instance, have always been in need of an improved field of view. Racing games can benefit similarly. First-person shooters would definitely empower the player. Adventure games (as in point-and-click adventure style) and RPGs could benefit from the immersion. People abandoned the tech because it was a pain in the butt and expensive, but neither are the case anymore. Besides that, it’s the best way to do 3D.

Head-tracking. If you are already wearing a VR headset, this is no problem. Head-tracking not only gives the player a huge amount more spatial awareness, but it also goes a step toward solving problems with motion controls. I have Red Steel 2, and one of the major problems is that your view, gun, and sword all use the direction the remote is pointed toward. So if you don’t swing at a certain rate, the game assumes you want to look in another direction. And with that, it drags your gun out since it’s typical in games to match view with aiming. But what if you want to swing toward any direction other than the center of your view? That’s impossible. What if you want to glance around while shooting an enemy? Also impossible. And these things are not just impossible on the Wii, or just with Red Steel 2, they’re impossible altogether without head-tracking. Additionally, if the game knows the relative distance between someone’s head and hand, the game can infer additional data on how the arm is moving, allowing motion controls that better approach 1:1 control. And no, not even Skyward Sword is actually 1:1.

And I’ll keep demanding the impractical. 😛 There exists good technology for reading brain-waves. That’s right, mind-reading headsets exist. LOL http://www.emotiv.com/ You don’t need to shave your head, put sticky electrodes onto your skin, use electrolytic gel, or anything like that. It’s still fairly simple, and frankly, it seems the people behind this technology don’t actually understand the potential for this for video games. This technology can completely transform the way magic systems are done in video games. It can improve their depth, uniqueness, and competitive viability. Let’s say you are in the middle of a sword fight and you want to enchant your sword. Envision heat in your mind. And how intensely you imagine it in your mind would be reflected by the flames in-game. Want to cast a telekinetic attack? Use your head-tracking to focus on an object, imagine in your mind seperating an object from the world, then push it in whatever direction you want, maybe spinning it or whatever. Maybe even envision cold and freeze it as you throw it. Games could respond to your emotional state. Maybe boost your strength when you are angry, or make your sword sharper when you are focused. A person could actually learn to control their emotions through video games. LOL And imagine a survival horror game with this. This goes wayyyyy beyond the Wii Vitality Sensor. 😉 A first-person game with motion controls could allow a player to control their direction, and their kicks, with just mind reading. This’d allow a player to use both hands in-game. Every single game could use this differently. It’d be a brave new world for video games.

Basically, what this comes down to is a video game system with a super headset. Integrated 3D audio, a microphone, VR display, head-tracking, and neuro-signal acquisition (as Emotiv puts it). I’d prefer motion sensing with hands to be done with full-on motion-sensing gloves instead of just remotes. Doing motion sensing by camera like with the Kinect requires less hardware, but also has more limitations. But the most important thing is a headset that has those features I mentioned above. You could theoretically do all of these things right now on PC, but there is probably nobody out there with all three of these accessories. The only practical way right now is to deliver it as a console.

So yeah… I want to see TYPES of technology that are available right now flourish. That’s way more interesting to me than marginally improved graphics.

@Knightcrawler: Headsets? Pfft. Imma hold out for SimStim. I won’t be happy until I have a plug in my head and Zeiss Ikon eyes. < 3

As for the Wii? People can talk about casual gamers as much as they like. The reality? Wii has brought platforming back from the verge of extinction and Atari gamers back to gaming. I don’t know anyone who has a Wii fit, but I know multiple +45 year old former gamers who bought their first console in decades w/ the Wii.

The problem I have with Steam is that it takes away control of a product that you purchased. I am fine with the whole no physical thing, as long as I can at least download the software as a standalone installer. While I know there are some ways to temporarily avoid this, but you basically have to have Steam’s blessing to play the game. If Steam got into legal troubles or went away, then you will not be able to play/install the product that you purchased. What will you do when Steam decides not to host that 5 year old game that you like?

Being a system/network developer the whole “Cloud” concept scares me, but that is for another discussion. Why can’t I download the game digitally and then install it into Steam? That way I have my product I bought, and not really dependant on Steam to play it. I am also a long time PC gamer, patches where never really a problem to keep up with, and I can install my physical media far faster then it takes Steam to install everything.

Hate it or love it, everything is going to something like it and their is nothing we can do about it. Personally I would love to see it more like a virtual environment thing, then a software catalog. Would be able to avoid problems brought up by OS updates, and would be portable between different OS, like Linux. All while still having control over the software.

The “cloud” is a terrible idea. Not to mention, Steam is one step away from becoming Origin. Gaben is the only person keeping that from happening. At his size, one clot and the walls come tumbling down.

I don’t think it’s that big a deal. I remember being kindof worried about it with back when online games first started getting big. Now that there are games 10 + years old still having online support I’ve lost a bit of the fear. What if your DVD’s get destroyed in a fire? Get scratched to the point you can’t play them? No one is giving you a new copy. (or you’re modding which if you’re doing that why buy anything) I’ve bought this one Ramones album like 3 times. There is a very good reason MP3 players have killed CDs. Is it a big problem buying MP3s? Why do you think it will be different with games?

Is it a big problem buying MP3s? Why do you think it will be different with games?

Because music can be put on an external hard drive and stored separately. Or you can burn it to a disk or put it on your mp3 player.

With games, this is not possible. Steam and Origin require their launcher to run their games. World of Warcraft won’t work unless it’s installed into a specific folder that is hard wired to Warden. You’re giving up your right to personal property.

I admittedly don’t have alot of experience with Steam, but from everything I’m reading seems you can do all of those things. Install the software on multiple computers even. Is there some sort of problem with their “Offline mode”? Just because I’m supposed to own a Wii to play a Wii game does that mean I’ve given up my right to personal property?

That aside though, this is that big an issue for you why wouldn’t you just not buy from them. Buy from someone else that does give you more freedom of use?

Just because I’m supposed to own a Wii to play a Wii game does that mean I’ve given up my right to personal property?

Wait, what about this distinction do you not understand? If you own a Wii and the game that goes with the Wii, that is your personal property. You can hold it in your hand and do whatever you want to with it– play it, baby it, throw it, break it. But when you don’t own a physical medium, you allow the company that produced it to regulate what you can and can’t do with it. That’s wrong.

That aside though, this is that big an issue for you why wouldn’t you just not buy from them. Buy from someone else that does give you more freedom of use?

I don’t buy from Valve because of this reason. I also don’t use Origin for the same reason. I also don’t download a game unless I own a corresponding physical copy of the same game. That way if a company decides to ban me or brick my online copy, I can still play.

Mr. K. “You can hold it in your hand and do whatever you want to with it“

That’s not true. I can’t just start pulling code off of it. I can’t copy and redestribute it. I “own” it, yeah. Not really though. I’ve bought the right to play it. On the system it was designed for. That’s it.

Mr. K. “what about this distinction do you not understand?“

Think I’m starting to get the idea.

My Grandmother might be a good example. Has her own business. For years didn’t trust computers. Would do all of her books on both the cpu and on actual paper. No real reason. Just paranoia. Doubled her work.

I’ve lost the disks for alot of my software over the years. I just download it when I need it. Can the bank just up and decide I don’t really have any money? Sure. Do I let that bother me? Turn it all into gold and keep it under my bed? No. Maybe you’ve never had your home broken into. I have.

Nothing in life is certain. I’m going to guess some pirate has probably already cracked Steam though. Say for the sake of arguement the company up and bankrupts tommarrow. Who’s to stop anyone who wants to play their Valve games from distributing the program that allows them to?

I’m sure some stuck with the N64 simply because they distrusted new tech. Missed out on some killer games though.

Yeah, sorry, I don’t feel like reading through 75 comments. This is a big one. If I didn’t have so much homework I would have done a better job of keeping up. So I guess what I say may not be original? Ah well, I’d be saying this stuff anyway.

If we got a new console developer, me buying it would really depend on who it is, and if I’ve got any extra money around. If it was Valve making their steambox (Real or not), I might buy it due to my love of valve and steam, but on the other hand it just seems like a simplified PC, so if you’ve got a PC it dosen’t seem worth it. If it was something like Sega, I’d be interested if they were going to be doing some Shenmue 3 or something. I don’t have too much investment into Sega, but if I got like a Dreamcast or Genesis or Saturn,and loved the hell out of them, then I would not hesitate. With someone else, probably not.

I have a Wii, 360, PS3, and a PC. I like to be able to play exclusives. I play Mario, Uncharted, and Halo. If there was another console, I’d probably feel the desire to get it, but I’d rather spend my money on someone that has a better chance, or I have an investment. I will allways buy the next Nintendo console, so the WiiU is my priority. I will probably get an Xbox 720, or Xbox Gigamesh or whatever they name it too, but mostly because my brother is big on Xbox. Then I’d probably get a PS4 a few years after, during the holidays. Another console would definatly be on my list to get eventually, but it might not be until after it’s dead. I still don’t have a PSP, but it’s on my list. (By the way, does PSV games play PSP games? How the hell is that thought just now coming to me?)

So yeah, I guess I wouldn’t be immediatly interested. 3 consoles to keep track of is plenty, and I can’t imagine any of them dying soon. Maybe Nintendo, but that’s only because of the recent 3DS fail, which I still love.

I can’t just start pulling code off of it. I can’t copy and redestribute it.

Why not? As long as you don’t accrue profit from distribution, it isn’t illegal.

My Grandmother might be a good example. Has her own business. For years didn’t trust computers. Would do all of her books on both the cpu and on actual paper. No real reason. Just paranoia. Doubled her work.

Now you’re calling me a Luddite. Business is evil. It consumes everything. It destroys government. It disrespects the consumer. You’re willing to go along with that? Regulate it. DRM, DLC and everything else that the video game industry is doing these days has got to be stringently regulated and overseen by the government.

No, you can’t. Not legally. Megaupload recently, Napster a while ago for examples. Go all pirate and why worry about anything.

I was, yes. Seems to be the only thing really behind it to me. Gunna go all commie and video games wouldn’t be the first thing I’d worry about. Don’t even have national healthcare. Also I wouldn’t really trust the current US government to do any better with communism then they do with capitalism. FDA is corrupt as hell. I don’t think the VGA would be better.

Probably not the newer games, but retro games you can. KotOR, The Dig, etc.. You can play those without the Steam launcher.

Maze, I think I’d draw the line at a neural interface… too medically dangerous, you’d have to worry about hacking and viruses in a whole new way, and then there’s always the nightmare that you never get out of the “game,” etc..