AuthorTopic: Beatles as innovators (Read 37533 times)

nimrod

Who knows when progressive rock really started. I think it was a movement, contributed to by many bands. At the time, in late 1967, hearing Days of Future Passed for the first time, I knew it was something different much in the way I knew Sgt Pepper was something different a few months before.

I first heard the term "progressive rock" a couple of years later.

I think there were obviously quite a few Art Rock albums out in the late 60's by The Moody Blues, The Nice, Pink Floyd but most classic prog fans cite In The Court Of The Crimson King (1969) as THE forst full blown prog album, I find it hard to disagree, 'Court' still stands up as the first 100% progressive Rock album and the one that defined the genre, the perfect album from start to end, it goes from frenetic to symphonic in a matter of seconds mixing elements of Jazz, Symphonic, Folk with Rock.

dont know if this is considered a link in the prog rock chain.... or even if it had influence on the later beatles ...but i looked up robert moog . . (the inventor)and it was saying how he met a classical musician in new york named walter carlos who ended up making the first moog synthesizer album in 68 called "switched on bach" its heavily multitracked and kind of intended to debut the moog as a viable instrument. the sales were huge and the album eventually went platinumcarlos went on to release more classical electronic interpretations and did the soundtracks for clockwork orange and tron also, walter carlos is now wendy carlos. that threw me off in my googling at firstthis is a news piece on the moog .. at around the 3 minute mark it gets interesting with hints of baba oriely, prog rock and norweigan wood . . dont kno the date

and this is supposed to be like 1968's switched on bach. i dont kno if the actual album is on youtube. there are traces of abbey road here?is it a coincidence that john admitted basing 'because' on bach??

umm, ok im a dunce - he based it on beethoven but still,classical music on the moog tops the charts in '68 then john does 'because' . ..bytheway - never knew the monkees used moog before the beatles (67):the moog solo kicks in at 1:26

>:Very good question nimrod,I often have wondered how Kevin can call himself a Beatles fan and be on a Beatles fan site and say the inaccurate and ignorant things he says about them. Any true Beatles fan who is knowledgeable about them,knows their many true innovations and how truly creative,orginal and inventive they were and ahead of their time even in a lot of their early music.

>:Very good question nimrod,I often have wondered how Kevin can call himself a Beatles fan and be on a Beatles fan site and say the inaccurate and ignorant things he says about them. Any true Beatles fan who is knowledgeable about them,knows their many true innovations and how truly creative,orginal and inventive they were and ahead of their time even in a lot of their early music.

nimrod

>:Very good question nimrod,I often have wondered how Kevin can call himself a Beatles fan and be on a Beatles fan site and say the inaccurate and ignorant things he says about them. Any true Beatles fan who is knowledgeable about them,knows their many true innovations and how truly creative,orginal and inventive they were and ahead of their time even in a lot of their early music.

I think your right there, anyone who doubts this should ask themselves, why were they so massively popular in every coutry that sells records and has a hit parade ? why werent The Shadows or The Everleys so massive, I think the reason was that no-one had heard (or seen) anything like them, even in non English speaking countries they were just as big.I well remember seeing them on a magazine show from Manchester, England which was on at around 6pm for the first time, I was only a kid but I was absolutely enthralled and have been a fan ever since. All other popular acts just fell by the wayside next to them and suddenly lots of Beatle copyist bands appeared.

Any true Beatles fan who is knowledgeable about them,knows their many true innovations and how truly creative,orginal and inventive they were and ahead of their time even in a lot of their early music.

I think your right there, anyone who doubts this should ask themselves, why were they so massively popular in every coutry that sells records and has a hit parade ? why werent The Shadows or The Everleys so massive, I think the reason was that no-one had heard (or seen) anything like them, even in non English speaking countries they were just as big.

ok, i'll respond to thatin the context of other parts of this thread and just to play devil's advocate i would say . . -because women were attracted to them and their charisma - which suited them to be teen idols. and that was then soldthey springboarded off of that -. . . they were certainly much more musically talented than any other teen idols for sure!. . . certainly musical geniuses - as songwriters and more! -but for arguments sake. . some aspects of their ascent to worldwide fame can also be compared with . . new kids on the block . . bay city rollers....duran duranthat cut them to the front of the line, if you will, to have the world's ear for their musical accomplishments-in other words....they weren't playing on a level field with ALL musicians - like a string quartet of fat bald ugly musical geniuses who girls didn't like

skeptical? - one of the most talented, creative cofounding members of the rolling stones (ian stewart) was dismissed as a member because of his looks jeopardizing the groups collective sex appeal

. . . and also because they were white their emulations of little richard, the isley brothers and smokey robinson had more mainstream marketability / identification factor -> then black artists of comparable musical merit

Who knows when progressive rock really started. I think it was a movement, contributed to by many bands. At the time, in late 1967, hearing Days of Future Passed for the first time, I knew it was something different much in the way I knew Sgt Pepper was something different a few months before.

I first heard the term "progressive rock" a couple of years later.

Who knows who invented what but hey "Strawberry Fields Forever" a good place to start mellotron/time signature changes/multiple part song/ and diminished chords. You have to remember the Beatles were the primary influences on early Yes, Geneisis, Pink Floyd and Robert Fripp of King Crimson. I think those musicians just expanded on the elements of say a song "Strawberry Fields Forever" and the experimental aspect of the Beatles into progressive rock. That is why many consider the Beatles proto-prog they were one of the earliest influences. Of course there were others but the Beatles impact was huge on all fronts.

. . . and also because they were white their emulations of little richard, the isley brothers and smokey robinson had more mainstream marketability / identification factor -> then black artists of comparable musical merit

You can say this also and I will turn it around.

Blues-rock pioneered by...Yardbirds, Cream, Led Zep?" Not exactly. All those lads were eagerly devouring records by Muddy Waters, Sonny Boy Williamson, and Robert Johnson. Waters and Williamson were already electric.

No musician pops out of a vacuum, of course. Those bands, and of course the Rolling Stones, were trying to be American blues bands, but much louder and with bigger drums. The Beatles though were steeped in Chuck Berry, Little Richard, a flock of American girl groups, country and European folk music. The Beatles weren't copycats in terms of what they were doing with their R&B and blues influences. They took those influences to places nobody had ever seen before. The Beatles were famous for contrasting blues based verses with bridges that uses musical languages that totally broke the rules of blues music like “Can’t Buy Me Love” and “You Can’t Do That” for example. “Drive My Car” obviously influenced by the R&B music of Otis Redding, they create a powerful guitar sound by doubling low guitar and bass throughout the track. By the way do you guys know Otis Redding “Sitting on the Dock of the Bay” was influenced by the Beatles.

ok, i'll respond to thatin the context of other parts of this thread and just to play devil's advocate i would say . . -because women were attracted to them and their charisma - which suited them to be teen idols. and that was then soldthey springboarded off of that -. . . they were certainly much more musically talented than any other teen idols for sure!. . . certainly musical geniuses - as songwriters and more! -but for arguments sake. . some aspects of their ascent to worldwide fame can also be compared with . . new kids on the block . . bay city rollers....duran duranthat cut them to the front of the line, if you will, to have the world's ear for their musical accomplishments-in other words....they weren't playing on a level field with ALL musicians - like a string quartet of fat bald ugly musical geniuses who girls didn't like

skeptical? - one of the most talented, creative cofounding members of the rolling stones (ian stewart) was dismissed as a member because of his looks jeopardizing the groups collective sex appeal

Well no one thought British Rock bands would make a big impact here in America. There had been occasional hits like “Telstar” and remember Cliff Richard was basically a flop here with a few minor hits. So the Beatles actually had a lot going against them in making an impact here. That is why when the Beatles vanguard the British Invasion it set off a major chain reaction in music. Yes, their looks had something to do with it but in the end they have become the most covered songwriters in the rock era from jazz musicians to thrash metal bands covering their songs.

Blues-rock pioneered by...Yardbirds, Cream, Led Zep?" Not exactly. All those lads were eagerly devouringplagiarizing records by Muddy Waters, Sonny Boy Williamson, and Robert Johnson. Waters and Williamson were already electric.

By the way do you guys know Otis Redding “Sitting on the Dock of the Bay” was influenced by the Beatles.

--wow never heard thatlooked it up with otis' 'day tripper' in mind and was surprised even more to see that otis redding wrote it after listening to sgt pepper and called the song an extension of the beatles musici really wonder what specific parts of sgt pepper album influenced otis redding to write dock of the bayday in the life? little help from my friends? getting better? shes leaving home?i dont think i'll listen to that song the same again

The Moog Synthesizer secondary metal strip keyboard is a whole lot easier to play. You can see in the video I posted that Mike Love has a keyboard card mounted above the strip. Still, he's concentrating very hard on playing the Moog while singing at the same time.

So, The Beatles first used the Moog Synthesizer recording Abbey Road, three years after The Beach Boys. Hopefully Joost will spot this thread. I'm sure he can comment further on The Beach Boys' use of the Moog Synthesizer.