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Author
Topic: I keep crying (Read 11971 times)

Something is changing. For the last three days I have been feeling overwhelmed with grief. No "news" has prompted this wave of sadness, no new numbers, no new symptoms of anything. And yet, I feel that my relationship to this disease is changing.

I have spent most of the last year in numbness, in cynical depression, in self-hate. Above all, I believe I have been experiencing regret. I °know° that I have been blaming myself for this, for getting infected. I know that I have disappointed myself. I have seen myself as stained, polluted, slashed, damaged, disabled, injured -- perhaps, all of that rightfully so. This is how I have been thinking. It has been compounded by fatigue, overall tiredness, weakness in my limbs and in my bones. I think I have been sublimating regret and self-blame. I keep intellectualizing the experience, trying to relativize and reject a morality that would blame victims for their suffering. I have no HIV+ friends where I live, and so I feel extremely isolated with this condition. I have been stuck in a dialectic of defensiveness and self-blame. I may still be there.

But I almost feel as though something is being released, and it comes with tears. I have been crying all afternoon. Why? I am not terribly sick at the moment, although I would lie if I didn't say straight up that I am afraid of getting sick, afraid of feeling fatigued forever.

I have to lose this regret. This oppressive regret.

And I keep thinking about the people who died. The suffering and the sadness. I was an AIDS activist in the early 90s... but death seemed far off nonetheless. No one close to me died. I try to imagine -- and can't -- what it was like: to have your friends dying all around you, to be dying yourself. To be diagnosed when there were no treatments like there are now. Just trying to imagine this brings tears to my eyes.

It is possible that I grieve for the loss of my own life as I once imagined it. But that sounds cliche and hackneyed, and so I resist it.Maybe this crying is a 'stage.' At least one HIV "mentor" suggested to me last year that I need to grieve. It sounded like psychobabble at the time. I know that something has to change. Certainly, I can't keep keeping this a secret. Secrecy only reinscribes the shame that is so damaging. It only recreates the regret. I made a mistake. I slipped up. But I have had a wonderful life and I have always lived with intensity and passion. Yet, I am scared, really scared, of what family and colleagues would say once they knew that I have this. I am especially afraid of professional consequences.

It should be obvious from the above that I continue to find the emotional aspects of this infection to be the most troubling and the most damaging, so far. I suspect in fact that because HIV is medically treatable in ways that it didn't used to be, our experience of it will be more structured by social factors than by strictly 'medical' ones (though this distinction is ultimately untenable).

Maybe feeling these emotions are just what you need to move on with your walk with this little beast.It is not uncommon for people to go through a sort of grieving process. Each person experiences it in a different way, and in a different shuffle from another. The stages described for the passing of life are the same ones we experience for our old lives pre HIV. Let it out. Talk about it here. Just remember to not dwell in that place, or become stagnant in your process. I may not be especially happy to be hosting this little party hound, but I have made my peace with it, and have found a relatively comfortable way to co-exist.I really took me a long time to get to where I am now, but some of the other older folks around here can testify to the fact that I was quite a little case when I first came on the scene here. If you ever want to talk, I'm here.

Logged

No Fear No Shame No StigmaHappiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

I so agree with Lisa. If you push off grieving, it will come back around to get its due time. It's a perfectly wonderful cleansing process to cry. Rids the body of toxins and rinses you just as you experience the grounds and woods after rainfall. Sometimes I think I'm past any more sadness and I'll turn a corner and bump into yet another aspect of my life that was affected.

Today for example, started with a funeral mass. At the end, one of the children got up to explain that their mom was an organ donor and I believe she stated that more than 100 people would benefit from the various tissue and bone gifts. She asked that if we'd not yet checked organ donor on our licenses, to please consider doing so.

I remember that was a painful moment for me...changing my license from organ donor to a blank space. It was painful for me to never be able to donate blood nor participate in apheresis ever again. But, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I turned to looking for research studies in which to participate and while that has filled the gap a bit, today was a glaring reminder of my old pre-HIV life.

It comes in waves. The triggers can sometimes blindside me. But, I know it's temporary and I'll get through it.

I hope you keep posting. There are so many seasoned and thoughtful people in this forum who can be so helpful to you. I am four years post diagnosis--August 20 is my anniversary date---an infant on the timeline, but, the smart seniors who are here (or lurking, ahem!) can offer you so much inspiration.

I am sorry you have not been feeling well, but know that your emotions are normal. Please do me a favor take a couple more days to get all of your feelings out. Then start your healing process by moving forward. We can't change anything about our diagnosis, so we must find a way to incorporate it into our daily lives. You never know what the future hold because they are coming up with new meds all the time. Because you are infected now - It may not be the case 10 years from now. Never give up on the hopes and dreams of some scientist finding a resolution for this virus. Yeah, it is nasty, ugly, digusting and all of the above, but it still does not erase the fact that it lives within us all. Don't spend wasted energy focusing on how you allowed yourself to become infected. You did nothing wrong! I don't know you personally, but I am giving you a BIG HUG AND A KISS to make you feel better. I love you man! Take care and YOU WILL BE JUST FINE!! If you would like to email me personally please feel free to do so at uncutblkbear@aol.com

Something is changing. For the last three days I have been feeling overwhelmed with grief. No "news" has prompted this wave of sadness, no new numbers, no new symptoms of anything. And yet, I feel that my relationship to this disease is changing.

I have spent most of the last year in numbness, in cynical depression, in self-hate. Above all, I believe I have been experiencing regret. I °know° that I have been blaming myself for this, for getting infected. I know that I have disappointed myself. I have seen myself as stained, polluted, slashed, damaged, disabled, injured -- perhaps, all of that rightfully so. This is how I have been thinking. It has been compounded by fatigue, overall tiredness, weakness in my limbs and in my bones. I think I have been sublimating regret and self-blame. I keep intellectualizing the experience, trying to relativize and reject a morality that would blame victims for their suffering. I have no HIV+ friends where I live, and so I feel extremely isolated with this condition. I have been stuck in a dialectic of defensiveness and self-blame. I may still be there.

But I almost feel as though something is being released, and it comes with tears. I have been crying all afternoon. Why? I am not terribly sick at the moment, although I would lie if I didn't say straight up that I am afraid of getting sick, afraid of feeling fatigued forever.

I have to lose this regret. This oppressive regret.

And I keep thinking about the people who died. The suffering and the sadness. I was an AIDS activist in the early 90s... but death seemed far off nonetheless. No one close to me died. I try to imagine -- and can't -- what it was like: to have your friends dying all around you, to be dying yourself. To be diagnosed when there were no treatments like there are now. Just trying to imagine this brings tears to my eyes.

It is possible that I grieve for the loss of my own life as I once imagined it. But that sounds cliche and hackneyed, and so I resist it.Maybe this crying is a 'stage.' At least one HIV "mentor" suggested to me last year that I need to grieve. It sounded like psychobabble at the time. I know that something has to change. Certainly, I can't keep keeping this a secret. Secrecy only reinscribes the shame that is so damaging. It only recreates the regret. I made a mistake. I slipped up. But I have had a wonderful life and I have always lived with intensity and passion. Yet, I am scared, really scared, of what family and colleagues would say once they knew that I have this. I am especially afraid of professional consequences.

It should be obvious from the above that I continue to find the emotional aspects of this infection to be the most troubling and the most damaging, so far. I suspect in fact that because HIV is medically treatable in ways that it didn't used to be, our experience of it will be more structured by social factors than by strictly 'medical' ones (though this distinction is ultimately untenable).

For the last three days I have been feeling overwhelmed with grief. No "news" has prompted this wave of sadness, no new numbers, no new symptoms of anything. And yet, I feel that my relationship to this disease is changing.Above all, I believe I have been experiencing regret. I °know° that I have been blaming myself for this, for getting infected. I know that I have disappointed myself. I have seen myself as stained, polluted, slashed, damaged, disabled, injured -- perhaps, all of that rightfully so. This is how I have been thinking. It has been compounded by fatigue, overall tiredness, weakness in my limbs and in my bones. I think I have been sublimating regret and self-blame. I keep intellectualizing the experience, trying to relativize and reject a morality that would blame victims for their suffering. I have no HIV+ friends where I live, and so I feel extremely isolated with this condition. I have been stuck in a dialectic of defensiveness and self-blame. I may still be there.I have to lose this regret. This oppressive regret.But I have had a wonderful life and I have always lived with intensity and passion. Yet, I am scared, really scared, of what family and colleagues would say once they knew that I have this. I am especially afraid of professional consequences. It should be obvious from the above that I continue to find the emotional aspects of this infection to be the most troubling and the most damaging, so far. I suspect in fact that because HIV is medically treatable in ways that it didn't used to be, our experience of it will be more structured by social factors than by strictly 'medical' ones (though this distinction is ultimately untenable).

You took a word from my mouth.............And whats worse I feel a deep regret because I have a feeling that I have betrayed my children........But SOMEHOW , I do not how I manage to get through a day...........and after a 10 months there are some smiling moments in my life again..........

All I can say is I know how your feeling.I go through this from time to time.There is no magic answer.I wish there was.I believe some of it comews with accepteing hte fact that your poz. At least for me that has been the case.When I need to cry I cry.Try not to get stuck there though.I got stuck there for 2 yrs and I was a mess.So much so I ended up in the psych ward to straighten things out a bit.THink of the good things in your life if you can and always know you have the support here if you need it. Best wishes, Chris

Koksa, as uncomfortable as this is for you, you have very eloquently expressed a lot about what accepting and coming to terms with this is like.

What you're experiencing now is something that I expect will pass, as others have already warmly expressed to you. I believe in respecting feelings. Not clinging to them but respecting them. The "why" of them is less important than the fact that it's how you feel at the moment. While keeping on with your life, allow the feelings to be. Gradually (or swiftly sometimes) they will change. There maybe moments when you will suddenly understand things in a different way.

Make sure there are people in your life, like those who have already responded to you, who know you haven't done anything wrong, that you simply have a virus that you have to deal with which makes some special demands. You're going to find your way and through that experience you will find yourself either literally or figuratively putting your around someone's shoulder sometime and reassuring them that "it's going to be ok."

It was a little difficult for me to read your post as it was very reminiscent of what I had experienced myself.

It may be grieving of what you presumed is lost and it also may be fear of what you presume will be lost. It need not be something you are fully conscious of either and why you are at a loss to explain where it is coming from.

Sometimes we give ourselves little subliminal mental notes during the day that have a way of building up in our mind. For example - passing a drugstore and automatically thinking of HIV meds, or seeing someone who is sick and automatically self identifying that as our future, even just seeing a computer and automatically thinking that you want to look on aidsmeds. I stress that these are just examples and not specifically about you or anyone.

These are thoughts that can happen so quickly and fleetingly that we may not fully register them in our conscious, but they certainly do register themselves in our head and eventually build until HIV becomes a constant mental as well as physical companion, and frankly I think it's natural to grow exhausted from having this 24/7 houseguest/moocher in our lives, and want to just break down and cry.

I hope you can take comfort in the crying as it is a release and it is your mind presenting to you an opportunity to face something that has been weighing on you heavily. Frankly it may not be HIV specific or HIV -only worries, but since that is what your gut instinct is,then I encourage you to explore that.

I'm a huge proponent of writing - free style, stream of consciousness writing. Screw the punctuation, the grammar and any narrative worries and grab yourself some paper and write down everything (no matter how esoteric) your mind gives you when you put the pen to the paper.

My final thought is that I think it is worth it if you speak with a therapist if possible. I think you have a bit of a process to go through and that may be best handled by a professional who can guide you.

Thanks to all for your responses to this. I don't know quite what I seek in contributing to this forum, but I certainly appreciate your taking the time to try to help me. I will admit to some chagrin at being moved from 'living with' to 'mental health,' though I see the logic there, as though sadness is a sign of pathology and not a constitutive component of living with a potentially fatal illness.

Iggy, you write of subliminal or peripheral things that keep HIV in your mind or consciousness even if you don't notice it. I know this is happening for me. Actually for me, it often happens when I see youthful and happy people. I feel like I am existing in a different world than they are. I live in Finland, where everyone seems blonde. So I constantly have this impression of a 'general public' of young, skinny, blonde people and I am watching them from the outside. Of course, this feeling is some sort of synthesis of being HIV+ in a country with °absolutely no° public culture of HIV, and of being an expatriate here. It is just a coincidence and pure chance that I seroconverted and moved overseas at just the same time. But 'coping' with both culture shock and seroconversion all at once has been tuff, to say the least. Actually, being a foreigner here has made seeking therapy difficult. I was using Skype to talk to my old therapist in the States when I first moved here, but I found the computer interface to be alienating and non-conducive to the confessional atmosphere that therapy sometimes requires.

I looke for what I call 'HIVsign' in others (think "wormsign" from Dune): signs of the various atrophies associated with the disease. I wonder constantly if I am the only HIV+ person around, even in gay bars. When I read things about AIDS, I always wonder if the person writing it has HIV or knows anyone with HIV and whether that person ever imagines that s/he is addressing people who have HIV. There is so much discourse about HIV that seems of and for negative people, discourse that tends to presume or recreate the concept of the 'general public' that was so damaging in the early days of the epidemic.

Em, other people's sickness and death also triggers self-reflection for me. As I indicated, this is usually self-berating: other tragedies end up being occasions for belittling my own sadness and suffering. How can I be so selfish as to think that I deserve sympathy for having contracted HIV when children in Iraq have had their lives and families torn apart in the most unimaginably awful way? I think things like that. Where do I get off thinking that I am suffering? What's messed up is that I suspect that this thought pattern only ends up continuing various forms of self-abnegation and low-self-esteem that probably contributed to the decision I made that led me to get infected. "I get what I deserve." That kind of thing. Which is really just messed up and wrong and I need to reject it.

One thing I am struggling with, and I think this relates to the tears I have been crying for the last few days, is how to be kind to myself. Especially now, and especially with this disease. I find myself as a result veering between anger and sourness towards those around me, and incredible solicitousness and kindness toward others in the hope that they will show those to me.

Sasa, the feeling of having betrayed family is especially difficult. I haven't told anyone in my family, except for my boyfriend. I think I am getting ready to do this, because the longer I go without being open the more I end up creating this shameful little closet.

There's nothing inherently wrong with crying. It's a normal part of the grieving /healing process. And finding out you are HIV+ is terrible news, as it obviously can have many, many undesirable consequences. So you need to grieve.

But crying should lead you through the grieving process. If you are crying for an extended period, you have to ask yourself if you are "stuck" in the grieving / healing process. If so, you should probably talk to someone -- family, friend, or therapist -- who may be able to help you.

It's normal to blame yourself for becoming positive. To regret the actions and decisions that lead to you becoming HIV+. And most of us do have to accept at least some responsibility for those actions and decisions, particularly if HIV was acquired sexually. But blame and regret are not terribly productive, and usually don't lead to a place of acceptance.

It's so easy to say "I should have known better" -- most of us did know better than to engage in unsafe sex. But our sex drive does not come from the same part of our brain as logic and reason do. If it did, the incidence of STDs would be drastically lower, and there would be no unplanned preganancies, and abortion might be virtually non-existent.

That's not a free pass to engage in sexual activity without first thinking of the risks, and what we should do to protect ourselves and our partners. Like I said, we have to accept responsibility. But we're human, and when it comes to sex, it does not come from a place of higher reasoning. Like all humans, we have the potential to make mistakes.

I hate to see you be so hard on yourself. From what I've read, you've already done plenty of that. Ask yourself "what comes next?" You're right that life will never be the same again after your diagnosis. You've got a lot of hard decisions to make, and problems to face.

Playing the "what if was wasn't HIV+ game" is awfully tempting. But that's a game you can't win, because you are HIV+, so resist the temptation to play it. In many ways, you really don't know what your life would have been like if you weren't HIV+. It's just speculation, the same way we speculate how things might be different if we made different choices at other significant points in our lives.

One of your statements below highlights one of the biggest fears of many of us positive folks:

Quote

"Yet, I am scared, really scared, of what family and colleagues would say once they knew that I have this. I am especially afraid of professional consequences."

I would keep only very limited contact with people who won't accept you because of your HIV status. We all want and need to be accepted for who and what we are. You'll find endless threads on these forums about the fear of disclosing our status. I encourage you to take advantage of these forums, and learn from other people's experiences in disclosure, because having to keep your HIV+ status as a big secret to yourself is an extremely large burden to bear. Also, it's quite normal to seek out others who are HIV+, so if there is no one in your area that you are aware of (as you state below), you'll find these forums even more valuable.

The first sentence in your post below is "something is changing." I think that is probably a good sign, as I'd be more worried if you didn't think you and your life would change, after being diagnosed as HIV+.

Regards,

Henry

(Edited only to spell Koksi's name properly)

« Last Edit: August 11, 2007, 01:01:29 PM by BuckmarkTX »

Logged

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Koksi, I have experienced a lot of the feelings you are having, along with endless days of crying. While I do not know exactly how you feel, I do know what the crying is like. I had a lot of guilt of so many of my Friends passing away and me living. I came to terms with it. I know my Friends would be happy for me that I survives. In honor of the memory of them, I live my best life now.

I can really relate to your feeling grief over feeling the life you thought would be. I get comfort in thinking that experiences I have had, even the painful ones have allowed me to become the person I am Today.

I am glad you are you posting here on the forums. I'm sure you will meet a lot friends here. I just joined, and people have been so very kind to me. For me, walking through the sadness, feeling the sadness, allowed me to come through the other side. Hang in there.

... Actually for me, it often happens when I see youthful and happy people. I feel like I am existing in a different world than they are...

Interesting, I've felt the same thing this summer. Like you, living in a northern climate means summer comes in like a whole new world and people are outside, shirtless, all looking so healthy. This year I felt such an intense jealousy of them, that I've never felt before.

Yes, these northern climes are manic-depressive in the extreme. Everything goes from being dark and dead all the time to being light and alive. The shift is pretty amazing to behold. And yeah, all the blonde boys and girls here. Everyone seems so fair, so pure.

I actually am feeling less emotional today...

I am struggling with issues of secrecy a lot. I am in a structurally vulnerable position in terms of my employment, and so I am just really unsure how open I can be about my HIV infection. I would rather be completely honest and open, but I am aware that I have to be strategic in terms of who I tell and when. And yet, I feel that in acquiescing to prejudice (by being secretive), I end up contributing to its reproduction. I know it's not my job alone to overcome bias and hate and cold-heartedness of others. And my concern here is not just existentialist; it is also quite simply self interested. I am wondering about the effects on my mental health, on my mood and my self-regard, that being secretive about this has.

Of course, the funny thing is, I am open about this to all of my friends, my close friends. And yet NONE of them EVER ask me how I am doing with it. No one ever brings it up. And so this, again, contributes to secrecy of a kind. Because I sometimes take their not bringing it up as evidence that they don't want to talk about it. Whether or not this is true, it is how I mentally process what appears to be a shocking level of insensitivity that my °closest° friends have demonstrated towards me in never asking me how I am feeling. There is probably some sort of vicious cycle going on here.

Koksi, I note your comment, " I will admit to some chagrin at being moved from 'living with' to 'mental health,' though I see the logic there, as though sadness is a sign of pathology and not a constitutive component of living with a potentially fatal illness."

The term "mental health" does not automatically mean "pathology" or that you and others have "gone mental." I'm sorry that you would read that into having your thread transferred into the Mental Health section. Unfortunately that word --- mental -- seems to have a very loaded connotation to it. For much of our society anything that deals with mental health and emotions is seen as "crazy," "bad." "weird," "lesser than" and something to not be connected with in any way, rather than an opportunity to focus on a commonly shared and legitimate health need. And if considered at all, it's as something to be simply medicated away rather than respected and addressed in other ways.

It's no accident that this section was not called Cracking Up or Loony Birds. The inter-relationship between mind and body has long been recognized by professionals and others. So in having this section we're working to have those needs respected. I wish we could have come up with a user-friendlier word than "mental," but we didn't. Or haven't so far.

Of course, the funny thing is, I am open about this to all of my friends, my close friends. And yet NONE of them EVER ask me how I am doing with it. No one ever brings it up. And so this, again, contributes to secrecy of a kind. Because I sometimes take their not bringing it up as evidence that they don't want to talk about it. Whether or not this is true, it is how I mentally process what appears to be a shocking level of insensitivity that my °closest° friends have demonstrated towards me in never asking me how I am feeling. There is probably some sort of vicious cycle going on here.

Koksi,

I completely understand what you mean by this, but I think you should avoid making assumptions about them being insensitive as it may not be true and then you are creating an artificial worry or unnecessarily adding to your sense of isolation.

I don't know your friends or family, but I know mine - there are a number who don't ever bring it up unless I do simply because they don't know how, or that if I even want to talk about it. Yet whenever I raise the subject they are all ears.

Start talking to them and let them know you want them to ask about how you are doing every once in a while.

Perhaps your friends would think they were being insensitive if they DID delve into your health life? Perhaps they are unsure what to say or how to say it? Perhaps they are thinking you'll bring up anything you need to talk about?

There are many possibilities in this scenario Koksi. I wouldn't automatically guess that what you see as insensitivity or disinterest, means that it's true for them. Why not talk to them and find out what’s really going on?

I don’t know if this is tied to the subject of self-worth and guilt or not, but please be good to you and to them and communicate!

Sorry you are crying but glad you posted. Your feelings are normal. I just read that you are in finland. I was just in Helsinki Finland a few weeks ago. Hopefully you will be able to find some support there. I know Sweden is close and there is Denmark. All these countries are progressive. When I was in Copenhagen and Stockholm I saw support groups for Hiv+ people advertised in their Gay publications. Im thinking there must be something in Finland. I hope you can find some support there.

Personally I can go from anger to sadness to happiness to crying again all in one day. Just today I was at the movies and I thought I was going to lose it. I was with a friend I just met a few times who doesn't know I am poz. I just felt like crying for no reason. I didn't want him to see this and ask questions. It is difficult no doubt.

What helps me with the fatigue and depression is exercise. I got home from the movies today and made myself go exercise just a little. I swear this is what has kept me from totally losing it. I definitely still have my days though. I seem to wake up sad. I sometimes give in have my cry and then feel better. For me it is always this fear of the other shoe dropping. I read post here of people getting cancer and other problems and it is scary at times. I then worry about dating in the future and how to tell a date (had some bad experiences before). Then I worry if I'm losing weight and on and on and on. I'm trying really hard to think of the positive things that happen in life though (no pun intended). for example I'm really grateful this site is here. So many people have died in the past and never had a site like this to go to. Im really grateful for the meds that are out now. So many have died and still are because there were no meds before or they don't have access to them now. I'm also trying to remember to write at least three things every day that went well. All of this doesn't always work but it helps. I try and watch comedies. I read to distract myself.

Sometimes though I give myself a mental health break and for an evening I will allow myself to be sad, cry and down about life. As for telling others it took me a while to tell my family. Everyone is different.

I'm sure you will feel better soon. If I were you I would go with the flow. Let yourself cry. I think crying cleanses the soul. Hope you feel better soon

I know that I need to be open with my friends. Of course, certain unique aspects of my situation compound the sense of isolation I feel; most of my friends at in America, I live in Europe. It is just the weirdness of my life that I moved here when I did. Gay guys in America, who comprise most of my friends, are a pretty self-involved bunch of people. I mean, even when I was living in SF it was hard to get people to think about something other than: a) shopping or b) getting laid. Sorry! It's true! But DanielMark, I know what you say here is right.

Actually, I honestly wish that I had more HIV+ friends. I have a few. But again, they are far away.

DC, yes I was in Stockholm earlier this summer, and was pleasantly surprised by certain resources that appear to be available there for HIV+ types like me. Alas, Finland is a very different sort of place than is Sweden, despite their common Nordic-ness. The presence of HIV here is extremely small, people are very afraid of it, etc. So I have to be aware of that. For some reason, this even contributes to paranoia on my part about even writing about myself here on the forums. The one time I went to a local support agency for people with HIV, I met a guy (the one who runs it) who claims to be the only publically-positive person in the entire country. He claimed that he is the only one! I don't know yet if it is true. But it's pretty crazy.

My mood is "improving." The main thing that really gets me down, aside from imaginging all the suffering that this stupid disease causes, is literally just the physical ailment that I feel on a daily basis: fatigue, occasional chronic dry cough, and slight feverishness (without actual fever). These things get me down. I attribute them to my high VL. I have to tell myself: yes, it's true, there is a virus destroying my immune system.

I am preparing to begin medication I think. I will get more numbers at the end of August, and based on those, I may begin treatment. During my last doc appointment, the doctor said, 'You may be one of those people in whom this disease progresses faster than others.' I think that may be true.

Kok, it's good to know more about your situation. What you've said makes it very understandable why you're feeling so down. Isolation is never a good thing and most especially when you're facing the challenges of living with HIV.

I'm glad your numbers are being monitored although I think it's way too early for your doctor to say something about you being a fast progressor. I don't know how long you've been having your numbers watched, but I would hope that there would be at least a few checkups to see the direction of things before deciding to go on to meds. Maybe it will be necessary, but having the perspective of several sets of numbers is generally a good idea.

Will you be staying indefinitely in Finland? I can't help wondering if you are also dealing with the long Scandinavian nights, and if so, if that may play some part in your feelings. Or have I got my geography skewered here?

I'm wondering if an antidepressant would help. I also think you may be using selective observation. You mentioned everyone seemed so fair blonde and pure there. There are plenty of people in finland and Sweden ,which is just right across the water, that are not blonde or fair. Not to mention I'm sure you know not everyone there is looking for a clone of themselves. When I was there I met many people who actually want something the opposite of themselves. I'm sure there are many many people there that would like to get to know you even with your being poz. Yes there are rejections. I have had them. But there are also a lot of people that don't care about the poz issue.

I know when I am sad and depressed I only see everything as negative. Im not sure if you live in Helsinki or what part of Finland you live in but the larger cities are more progressive as you know. I was there in Helsinki and kept seeing posters and ads for people that were definitely not blonde or Finnish. Right now there is also plenty of light outside. There is also daily boat rides from Sweden to Helsinki. I'm not sure of your financial situation.

I agree with your comment earlier about many gays being self absorbed and only looking for one thing. I complain about this too. But as you can see from so many people responding to your post, not all gays are totally self absorbed. Try and get out more and enjoy the summer there. I see many people there riding bikes and enjoying the light. Even if you just get out for a short walk. Also maybe you can post anonymously on some sites there for other poz friends. I know you are concerned about your privacy. Maybe you can post in other cities even if it is in Sweden. I really hope you start feeling better

Andy, thanks, I get more numbers in a few weeks. My numbers when I first tested positive weren't very good: VL was off the charts... unfortunately, I don't have that information in front of me... but that was in May 2006. A year later things don't really seem that much better... the 'curve' of the disease doesn't seem to be much of a 'curve' for me, so far anyway. More like just a downward slant after infection. I will have to see what the new numbers say.

I am considering beginning medication because I am tired all the time and I suspect VL to be contributing to this. Am I wrong to suspect this? I have asked previously here on the forums about this and others have suggested that high VL contributes to fatigue. I am aware of course that in beginning medication I may trade one set of issues for another.

DC, of course not everyone here is blonde and 25! I have no doubt that my perceptions are out of whack with my actual circumstances due to both acculturation and to the way that HIV changes self-knowledge and self-perception. There are lots of cheap boat rides to other places yes, and I have taken advantage of that where possible and affordable.

Actually, when I wrote this initial post I think I was trying to say that 'crying' was a sign of something *other* than depression. Depression, which I think I have also suffered from, seems to manifest in me in a low level numbness and a general disconnect from myself and from others. True sadness feels cathartic and temporary. I guess I would say that depression feels like 'melancholia' in Freud's terms: like something stuck and unresolved, resulting in one berating oneself... the emotional energy needed to grieve is directed against the self. *Actual* grief and sadness release this emotional energy and promote a more healthy psyche.

Ok, so here is something really cheesy, however, and cliche. I keep hearing the songs from Rent in my head! Especially Finale B and the lyrics: "give in to love/or live your life in fear" and "there is only us, there is only this, forget regret, or life is yours to miss." Super cheesy! But I can't get them out of my head. And something rings true.

There is no doubt an adjustment period where emotional swings are quite the norm. I remember i couldn't go 10 minutes without thinking, I'M HIV +.

Just a couple of years later and i deal with it like the chronic condition it is. Elevating the status of HIV is an invention of the mind. What I'm getting at, learning one is diabetic can be just as traumatic as learning one is HIV +. But as we all know Diabetes is does not carry the same stigma that HIV does.

So here's a couple of ideas you might want to consider.

HIV is a Virus. Like many other who have chronic conditions, you now have something in common with people who have Diabetes, Heart or Liver Disease, Cancer, etc. Everyone has to deal with their condition and their mortality. You are not that unique. Millions of people are HIV infected. You are not carrying an unusual burden. You are just like many of us, the people who read and post on these forums.

Being HIV positive is a treatable condition like other chronic conditions. Do not get stuck in the past thinking about the horrors that have gone on before. The present has a large number of treatments and there are 100 therapies in the pipeline. Look to the future not the past.

Lastly, while crying and grieving can be considered "normal", depression is not. Do not forget that treatment for depression from just talking to a therapist to seeing a psychiatrist and possibly taking medications for depression may be warranted. Your mental health has much to do with how well your immune system functions. Suffering excessive depression is not a desirable condition to be experiencing with HIV. It would seem that many would suffer in silence as a penance or because of the guilt. These thing must be dealt with as openly as one can so one can learn to accept HIV as the Virus it is, an not just an affect of the stigma associated with HIV.

We all have choices to make and emotions to deal with. I hope you can get through the rough patch and learn to live with HIV. To let you know, I'm pretty much as happy a person as I was before HIV, and with my enlightened view of my mortality, I'm trying to make the best of things and get to where I want to be and do what I want to do. I hope you can reach for that state of mind at some point.

Kok, "cheesy" can hit the spot sometimes. Only recently I was somewhere and a tune popped into my head that I hadn't thought of for years. "Where did that come from!!!??", I wondered and then just shrugged and went on with my day. Cheesy can definitely be very comforting.

Everyone has to deal with their condition and their mortality. You are not that unique. Millions of people are HIV infected. You are not carrying an unusual burden. You are just like many of us, the people who read and post on these forums.

And, just like many of us here on the forums, I have emotional issues. Your response strikes me as patronizing. Nowhere did I say that my HIV status makes me unique. In fact, if you read through the thread, you'll note that I sometimes berate myself for feeling bad about my situation when I know that many suffer. You suggest that one be open about the emotional aspect of infection, but then your response to such candidness is: get over it, it's not big deal. Thanks!

That said, I actually do think that HIV carries special challenges that other diseases don't, and these relate to the meanings attached to it. You mention the stigma of HIV only to suggest that ultimately it is not a big deal. And yet I read elsewhere in the forums about HIV+ people being discriminated against in manifold ways -- in jobs, in everyday life. Above all, I just don't see people with other diseases being told that they deserve what they get. And yet you don't have to look very hard to find that sentiment expressed toward people with HIV.

And no, I am not unaware of the treatments for the disease. I am aware that this may be a 'chronic, treatable condition.' And yet, it is precisely because the cultural baggage attached to HIV has not kept up with the science of HIV, the condition of being HIV+ is a confusing one. Many of us have grown up and matured in the shadow of the epidemic. We don't simply release the fear, anxiety, and sadness that having done so generates by simply drinking a lot of green tea.

You are correct, my tone is one of adjustment and acceptance. You clearly have a problem being HIV + and having issues dealing with shame and guilt.

While I accept these feeling as something I myself feel, the bottom line here is that you have been dealing unsuccessfully with your condition for a year, to the point where you having perhaps a breakdown. While you are receiving wonderful note of sympathy and encouragement, it would seem pointless to add another note in that vein.

Sometimes people just need to know there are others out there experiencing the same. For sure that is therapeutic in itself. My view is that you need... no... HAVE to learn to accept the fact that your HIV +.

Just to let you know, I also had to adjust to my condition and I used a book called Healing HIV to guide me. Your mental outlook is ultimately going to make your condition far worse than if you can learn to "get over it". (Which is in effect patronizing in reverse on your part as this is not my message to you.)

I am not mad or angry at you in any way. I'm not feeling condescending nor self congratulatory because I've been able to accept my condition and get on with my life as best I can. My message to you is you need to move in this direction, and you probably need therapy. If you have been POZ for a year, and your not getting "used" to your condition, if the response is emotional mood swings, crying, and depression, I think you need more than sympathetic notes from a community. You need some treatment and you do need to learn to live being POZ by essentially forgiving yourself for getting a disease and you need to unload the guilt and the shame you feel for becoming POZ.

Of course everyone is different and have different ability in coping with the facts of our lives. I am sympathetic to the emotional issues your are dealing, or I wouldn't have bothered to respond to your post. So, as best as I can through a forum posting that has the limitations of the written word, please understand I am trying to be constructive.

My experiences with others with Mental Health issues has provided guidance for me in understanding that someone on the outside can't fix someone else's issues simply by providing advice. I know this is your issue, your problem, your outlook that is in question. My postings cannot fix your condition, and I truly understand this. What happens to you is going to be the result of what actions you decide to take. Perhaps the temporary relief you my feel from soliciting attention to your condition my get you out of this spiral, but I would suggest that treatment or meditation or work in areas that help you accept your condition may do more for you in the long run.

For example, maybe you can do some work for others with conditions similar to HIV to gain some appreciation for the value of life. I did an event for MS last year and the appreciation from the folks in their wheel chairs truly warmed my heart. I knew that while my fate is now tied to HIV, there are many many people out there who are by far worse off than I am in so many ways. I would therefore encourage you to work towards understanding that HIV is just a virus that you can live with and have a full and interesting life. This is of course within my capability to process, to essentially count my blessings. I do understand not everyone has this ability, nor do their situations simply fit into this box of optimism. So if you need help, you really should consider and try and make the effort to get that help.

Ris, I suggest that you would be more helpful to Kok, or to anyone else for that matter, if you spoke simply from your own personal experience.

He's resisted the impulse to react to what he experienced and patronization on your part. By speaking in the "I" voice -- this is what happened to me, this is how I felt, this is what I did and this is where I am at today -- I think some of the offensive barrier would be lessened.

You're free of course to express yourself as you wish but as a third party to the conversation, I can tell you that what you have said comes across as a lecture of sorts from a missionary rather than one guy talking simply to another about shared matters and problems.

In the Long Term Survivor Forum on this sight there is a new post on a study of life expectancy for persons with HIV. It might be helpful to read it to put the "morbitity" aspect of the saddness in place. Our anger at becoming infected of course is something else. In many ways it was a consequence of trying to love and share some intimacy to deal with loneliness and alienation. I don't want to down play the deep saddness that has lead me too to bouts of crying long and hard in the pillow at night. However, we are dealing with a virus first and foremost and not a flaw in our character. There are many physically healthy people who bring about much pain and saddness in this world to themselves and others.

My apologies for being hyper aggressive in my approach to the issues you are experiencing. The truth is, I hate to see anyone suffering undue emotional distress, and only wish for you and anyone relief from the stress brought on by HIV.