I love those articles. They throw all these names around and at the end Kenny says that we probably won't be able to add a more talented player than we have now. :D:

But I guess it's better than yet another Cubs fluff piece.

btrain929

05-21-2008, 09:57 AM

I'd imagine there has to be a little substance to this. He sees that we're in 1st in the thick of things, and up to this point our problem has been our offense. Trading for a sparkplug for the top of the order, letting Cabrera drop back down to 2, or even keeping AJ there and dropping Cabrera down with Swisher at the end would definitely make us that much stronger. The question is, what would we have to trade for any of these guys? Crede + 1 or 2 guys for Figgins?

spawn

05-21-2008, 10:02 AM

It's articles like these that reminds me of why I don't read the Scum-Times, and why the paper sucks. This is another instance of flinging **** on a wall and hoping it sticks.

It's a deal that makes sense. The Sox despertly need speed at the top of the order and it would reunite the 1-2 punch of Figgins and Cabrera. I don't think Crede would be a part of that deal .But it in getting Figgins you have someone who is more than capable of spelling Crede at 3rd sometimes and keeping him fresh. Just becuse things are going well doesn't mean K.W isn't looking to improve things. The way this division is going so far, it really is up for grabs.

russ99

05-21-2008, 10:13 AM

I'd imagine there has to be a little substance to this. He sees that we're in 1st in the thick of things, and up to this point our problem has been our offense. Trading for a sparkplug for the top of the order, letting Cabrera drop back down to 2, or even keeping AJ there and dropping Cabrera down with Swisher at the end would definitely make us that much stronger. The question is, what would we have to trade for any of these guys? Crede + 1 or 2 guys for Figgins?

Maybe when we get closer to the deadline something could happen, especially if Fields gets it together in AAA and we can deal Crede before we lose him as a FA. But I doubt we could get Figgins or Roberts without dealing the few good prospects we have left, like Broadway, Egbert and Poreda.

But now at the end of May, no one is trading.

spawn

05-21-2008, 10:17 AM

It's a deal that makes sense. The Sox despertly need speed at the top of the order and it would reunite the 1-2 punch of Figgins and Cabrera. I don't think Crede would be a part of that deal .But it in getting Figgins you have someone who is more than capable of spelling Crede at 3rd sometimes and keeping him fresh. Just becuse things are going well doesn't mean K.W isn't looking to improve things. The way this division is going so far, it really is up for grabs.

Maybe when we get closer to the deadline something could happen, especially if Fields gets it together in AAA and we can deal Crede before we lose him as a FA.

But now at the end of May, no one is trading.
Here's a question that Cowley doesn't answer in his article: Why would the Angels even be looking to move Figgins when they're the favorites to win there division? Sure, a trade makes sense for the Sox, but it makes no sense whatsoever for the Angels, especially in May.

Tekijawa

05-21-2008, 10:32 AM

I wonder if we could get them to throw in Lackey and Santana too?

oeo

05-21-2008, 10:36 AM

I'd imagine there has to be a little substance to this. He sees that we're in 1st in the thick of things, and up to this point our problem has been our offense. Trading for a sparkplug for the top of the order, letting Cabrera drop back down to 2, or even keeping AJ there and dropping Cabrera down with Swisher at the end would definitely make us that much stronger. The question is, what would we have to trade for any of these guys? Crede + 1 or 2 guys for Figgins?

Is getting a leadoff hitter something Kenny wants to do? Most likely...he's always looking for ways to improve.

Add to the list any infielder that can lead off, and I'm sure Kenny has interest. That doesn't mean anything is going to happen.

Craig Grebeck

05-21-2008, 11:04 AM

Danny Richar?

alohafri

05-21-2008, 11:46 AM

But now at the end of May, no one is trading.

Especially teams that haven't been mathematically eliminated.

jackbrohamer

05-21-2008, 12:12 PM

I actually picked up a Sun Times today hoping to read an account of what happened in last night's game. All I got was Cowley's idiotic gossip column.

JB98

05-21-2008, 12:31 PM

I actually picked up a Sun Times today hoping to read an account of what happened in last night's game. All I got was Cowley's idiotic gossip column.

Precisely. Normally, I pick up Cowley's game story for our paper, but this offering on Figgins is pure garbage and not worth the paper it was printed on.

The Associated Press account of last night's game appears in today's Aurora Beacon News.

Why would the Angels, a contending team, be interested in dealing Chone Figgins to the White Sox, a contending team in the same league? It makes little sense.

getonbckthr

05-21-2008, 02:15 PM

Here's a question that Cowley doesn't answer in his article: Why would the Angels even be looking to move Figgins when they're the favorites to win there division? Sure, a trade makes sense for the Sox, but it makes no sense whatsoever for the Angels, especially in May.
Because they have the trio of Aybar, Izturis and when he returns Kendrick playing 2B, SS and 3B. Their OF and DH are locked up as well. If they could something to help them win a title i'm sure Anaheim wouldn't hesitate. Now what that is from us I dont know.

hi im skot

05-21-2008, 02:19 PM

Intersting?

spawn

05-21-2008, 02:21 PM

Because they have the trio of Aybar, Izturis and when he returns Kendrick playing 2B, SS and 3B. Their OF and DH are locked up as well. If they could something to help them win a title i'm sure Anaheim wouldn't hesitate. Now what that is from us I dont know.
But he's their leadoff hitter and is a valuable player for them. Again, why would they want to trade him?

Tragg

05-21-2008, 04:01 PM

Isn't Figgins a rent? Perhaps at a rent a player price (which is extremely low).

The Sox could use Richar back.

Boondock Saint

05-21-2008, 04:24 PM

Did people stop buying the routine Brian Roberts rumor or something? Had to keep things interesting by throwing a different name in there, I guess. As previously stated, the Angels are looking at a playoff run right now. There's no way in hell they trade away a solid leadoff man for no good reason.

btrain929

05-21-2008, 04:29 PM

Isn't Figgins a rent? Perhaps at a rent a player price (which is extremely low).

The Sox could use Richar back.

He's signed thru '08, and next year is his last year of arbitration. He won't be eligible for free agency til after the '09 season. So not exactly a rent.

Craig Grebeck

05-21-2008, 04:38 PM

I am not quite sure what the title means.

bear_brian

05-21-2008, 04:56 PM

Cowley is a tool. Why would he write about someone Kenny is interested in, instead of writing about how the Sox played a great game to win their sixth in a row against one of their primary challengers in the Central? And, being "interested in" a player has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of pending deal. Kenny, I'm sure, is "interested in" ARod, Pujols, Vlad, Matt Holliday, etc.

I wish to God that the Sun Times had some writer a little bit more interested in how well the Sox are doing than this guy. He is almost as negative as Moronotti.

btrain929

05-21-2008, 04:57 PM

I am not quite sure what the title means.

KW interested in Chone.

Chone Figgins is a player on the Angels.

KW is interested in Chone Figgins, the player on the Angels.

According to Joe Cowley.

Problem?

:scratch:

SoxyStu

05-21-2008, 05:04 PM

There are some posts in this thread are bleeding with truth.

To me, I think the tossed **** might be a touch stickier if Cowley was mentioning the other LA team. The Dodgers seem much more likely to need a real mlb 3rd baseman. Granted, I didn't read all of the other KW/Dodger thread and don't know if it was hijacked to a more likely scenario (a Crede trade) as it started out with Uribe talk...

getonbckthr

05-21-2008, 05:06 PM

But he's their leadoff hitter and is a valuable player for them. Again, why would they want to trade him?
I was just throwing out a case for them possibly finding Figgins expendable. Remember Mathews Jr can leadoff as can Aybar and Kendrick.

Craig Grebeck

05-21-2008, 05:06 PM

KW interested in Chone.

Chone Figgins is a player on the Angels.

KW is interested in Chone Figgins, the player on the Angels.

According to Joe Cowley.

Problem?

:scratch:

Cowley saying KW is intersting in Chone...

Rockabilly

05-21-2008, 05:12 PM

I wouldn't mind trading Crede for Figgins and a prospect

Our lineup needs to add speed and to get an extra year from Figgins rather than letting Crede go at the end of this year. this would be a fair deal

esbrechtel

05-21-2008, 05:25 PM

I am a huge Crede fan but I will say that I will be happy to no longer see the "Chone Figgins for Crede" Trade rumors once he is either signed long term or gone via free agency. I swear for the last 3 years this rumor has been circulating...way to go Cowley too lazy to actually report new things about the sox and just pull out an old story you wrote 2 years ago...

Foulke You

05-21-2008, 05:41 PM

I could see the Angels doing this if it was a move to help both teams. I'm not exactly sure what the Angels would want for Figgins. Perhaps an Angels fan could clue us in on what their needs are. I know that their bullpen isn't quite as strong as it was in years past. Perhaps we could send them Masset and a prospect? Not sure what Figgins value is on the open market since he is in the final year of his deal. The Angels are definitely on that list of teams that KW likes to deal with though so a move for Figgins wouldn't necessarily shock me. KW also likes to make his big moves in June or early July so it is possible that something is being discussed. (Freddy Garcia trade was in June and the Everett/Alomar trade was 1st week of July).

I know he has wheels and is a good leadoff hitter but what is Chone's natural defensive position? I know he can play just about anywhere but would he be a significant 2B downgrade defensively over Uribe or Ramirez? Does he have a decent throwing arm?

Eddo144

05-21-2008, 06:15 PM

I wouldn't mind trading Crede for Figgins and a prospect

Our lineup needs to add speed and to get an extra year from Figgins rather than letting Crede go at the end of this year. this would be a fair deal
In general, I don't think this is a reasonable scenario.

1) There's no way that the Angels would throw in a prospect in that deal, and I don't think the Sox would either.
2) You rarely see straight-up, player-for-player trades any more, especially when the two teams are both contenders in the same league and the two players play primarily the same position, and are roughly the same age.

Optipessimism

05-21-2008, 07:07 PM

This could be an offseason trade scenario but I doubt it happens this year. If the Angels are interested in Crede they'll make a play to sign him after the season. If that happens and Kendrick comes back healthy then Figgins should be on the block. Garrett Anderson and Juan Rivera will likely be gone and Willits will be a prime candidate to step in as their lead-off guy, so Figgins will be the odd man out as a starter.

Besides, the Sox might be more inclined to, if necessary, go after a cheap stopgap like Iguchi, Freel, Durham, Loretta, or Lopez should none of Richar, Ramirez, Uribe, Ozuna, or Getz look to be a solution. Maybe even Mark Grudzielanek would be available to us. And if the Sox don't want to set their sights on one of those types, there are mid-tier options like Mark Ellis and Freddy Sanchez that wouldn't require the type of bounty Roberts and Figgins would demand.

esbrechtel

05-21-2008, 09:59 PM

This could be an offseason trade scenario but I doubt it happens this year. If the Angels are interested in Crede they'll make a play to sign him after the season. If that happens and Kendrick comes back healthy then Figgins should be on the block. Garrett Anderson and Juan Rivera will likely be gone and Willits will be a prime candidate to step in as their lead-off guy, so Figgins will be the odd man out as a starter.

Besides, the Sox might be more inclined to, if necessary, go after a cheap stopgap like Iguchi, Freel, Durham, Loretta, or Lopez should none of Richar, Ramirez, Uribe, Ozuna, or Getz look to be a solution. Maybe even Mark Grudzielanek would be available to us. And if the Sox don't want to set their sights on one of those types, there are mid-tier options like Mark Ellis and Freddy Sanchez that wouldn't require the type of bounty Roberts and Figgins would demand.

I think Freddy Sanchez would be a solid pickup for the price...

beasly213

05-22-2008, 08:45 AM

Trading Crede this year would be a dumb move.
He is a proven clutch hitter and plays great defense something the Sox are going to need with not a lot of offense this year.

Why trade a proven guy when it looks like your team will be competing for the playoffs?

I know Crede will probably walk after this year but who cares? If he can help the White Sox win a championship then I am fine with that.

moochpuppy

05-23-2008, 01:15 PM

Why do I think Konerko would be part of this deal?

guillen4life13

05-23-2008, 01:21 PM

Why do I think Konerko would be part of this deal?

You tell me. He would have to okay any trade involving him at this point.

btrain929

05-23-2008, 02:02 PM

You tell me. He would have to okay any trade involving him at this point.

And Kotchman is performing very well at 1B.

oeo

05-23-2008, 02:11 PM

Trading Crede this year would be a dumb move.
He is a proven clutch hitter and plays great defense something the Sox are going to need with not a lot of offense this year.

Crede has been our worst defender by far this year. That's great defense? :?: How many times does he need to have a 2 out throwing error before we realize that he's been crap at the hot corner?

The only saving grace for Crede has been his offense. His defense has been so piss poor that if he wasn't hitting there would be no argument to even keep him here.

moochpuppy

05-23-2008, 03:18 PM

You tell me. He would have to okay any trade involving him at this point.

Well, he almost went there via free agency after the '05 season and he loves the west coast from his high school playing days in Arizona. I don't think he would reject a trade to the Angels.

And Kotchman is performing very well at 1B.

Kotchman had a lights out April but has slowed a bit in May. Konerko could play first base or DH for the Halos.

TomBradley72

05-30-2008, 04:40 PM

What about Carbrera going back to the Angels in exchange for Chone?

oeo

05-30-2008, 04:41 PM

What about Carbrera going back to the Angels in exchange for Chone?

Rumor has it, Kenny is writing up a letter as we speak.

Craig Grebeck

05-30-2008, 04:44 PM

What about Carbrera going back to the Angels in exchange for Chone?
Who needs draft picks?!

TomBradley72

05-30-2008, 05:19 PM

Who needs draft picks?!

The draft picks have some value, but I wouldn't make them a priority over a move that could help us win this year and take advantage of the great pitching we have and the weakened division (and possibly the league overall).

I'm focusing on this season vs. the longer term. Since Cabrera is turning out to be a one year rental player and we desperately need speed....just throwing it out there. Based on OC's hitting lately...staying the course with him is probably the best strategy. If you went this way, it would probably mean Figgins is your everyday 2nd baseman with Ramirez at SS. I don't how well Chone plays second base.

Craig Grebeck

05-30-2008, 06:36 PM

The draft picks have some value, but I wouldn't make them a priority over a move that could help us win this year and take advantage of the great pitching we have and the weakened division (and possibly the league overall).

I'm focusing on this season vs. the longer term. Since Cabrera is turning out to be a one year rental player and we desperately need speed....just throwing it out there. Based on OC's hitting lately...staying the course with him is probably the best strategy. If you went this way, it would probably mean Figgins is your everyday 2nd baseman with Ramirez at SS. I don't how well Chone plays second base.
Or how well Ramirez plays SS. You don't change your entire middle infield in the middle of a season.

Not to mention, defensively, Cabrera has been the best shortstop in baseball this season.

Frater Perdurabo

05-31-2008, 06:22 AM

Not to mention, defensively, Cabrera has been the best shortstop in baseball this season.

:scratch:

Cabrera isn't even the best defensive shortstop on this roster. In fact he may not be the second-best defensive shortstop on this roster.

I've been less than impressed. But maybe you've seen something I haven't.

TomBradley72

05-31-2008, 08:01 AM

Or how well Ramirez plays SS. You don't change your entire middle infield in the middle of a season.

All reports I've heard have Alexei ranked as the best SS the White Sox have, even if that's an exaggeration, the SS I've watched Cabrera play so far (not the greatest range, average arm) does not look like "elite" play to me.

If Figgins plays a good 2nd base (which I don't know), a Ramirez/Figgins double play combination would be interesting, and we'd have our lead off hitter. We'd basically be re-engineering the trade to be Garland for Figgins instead of OC.

Cabrera isn't even the best defensive shortstop on this roster. In fact he may not be the second-best defensive shortstop on this roster.

I've been less than impressed. But maybe you've seen something I haven't.
Well, I actually sold him short. The Hardball Times has him as the most valuable defensive player in baseball, at any position (this season).

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&league_filter[0]=AL&orderBy=field&direction=DESC&page=1 (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&league_filter)
John Dewan has him second in +/-, only behind Yunel Escobar.

Swisher-super sub for LF/CF/RF/1B/DH. I've seen enough.So these two months mean more than Swisher's last two stellar seasons? Good to know.

Frater Perdurabo

05-31-2008, 08:40 AM

Well, I actually sold him short. The Hardball Times has him as the most valuable defensive player in baseball, at any position (this season).

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&league_filter[0]=AL&orderBy=field&direction=DESC&page=1 (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&league_filter)
John Dewan has him second in +/-, only behind Yunel Escobar.

Hardball Times? Gosh, I think I just urinated all over my pocket protector.

Frater Perdurabo

05-31-2008, 08:41 AM

All reports I've heard have Alexei ranked as the best SS the White Sox have, even if that's an exaggeration, the SS I've watched Cabrera play so far (not the greatest range, average arm) does not look like "elite" play to me.

If Figgins plays a good 2nd base (which I don't know), a Ramirez/Figgins double play combination would be interesting, and we'd have our lead off hitter. We'd basically be re-engineering the trade to be Garland for Figgins instead of OC.

Hardball Times? Gosh, I think I just urinated all over my pocket protector.
LOL! OMG you are hilarious!

Seriously! Baseball statistics = geeks; geeks = pocket protectors and an inability to control their bladders!

This is awesome!

TomBradley72

05-31-2008, 08:57 AM

.

So these two months mean more than Swisher's last two stellar seasons? Good to know.

I'm not benching him. I'm rotating him, primarily in positions he's played historically. Over a full season...this would still generate ~120 starts.

I realize his (historic) ability to draw walks brings value, but he hit .253 in '06 and .262 in '07 with about 140 strike outs each season...is that really "stellar"? Last year he had 78 RBIs...stellar? His 2nd half with the A's last year was .260-11-32...stellar? Combined with his 1st two months with the White Sox...that a "stellar" 46 RBIs across 5 months of baseball.

I'm not saying bench him completely...I just think "super sub" is a better role for him than CF. If you need to pinch run for your CF late in a game...that's not a good sign.

Craig Grebeck

05-31-2008, 09:03 AM

I'm not benching him. I'm rotating him, primarily in positions he's played historically. Over a full season...this would still generate ~120 starts.

I realize his (historic) ability to draw walks brings value, but he hit .253 in '06 and .262 in '07 with about 140 strike outs each season...is that really "stellar"? Last year he had 78 RBIs...stellar? His 2nd half with the A's last year was .260-11-32...stellar? Combined with his 1st two months with the White Sox...that a "stellar" 46 RBIs across 5 months of baseball.

I'm not saying bench him completely...I just think "super sub" is a better role for him than CF. If you need to pinch run for your CF late in a game...that's not a good sign.

The 125 and 127 OPS+ at his age is stellar. It really is.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to change my pocket protector.

I understand we're all frustrated with him, but he has earned the benefit of the doubt. There's no one on that bench that deserves to start over him. It's best to ride out the storm.

FedEx227

05-31-2008, 09:12 AM

LOL! OMG you are hilarious!

Seriously! Baseball statistics = geeks; geeks = pocket protectors and an inability to control their bladders!

This is awesome!

HA-HA! Only problem is these guys watch every single play of the entire season for a player and rate them based on that. But OMGZ WEB SITE STATS AND RANKINGZ R GEEKS!!!

Frater Perdurabo

05-31-2008, 10:47 AM

LOL! OMG you are hilarious!

Seriously! Baseball statistics = geeks; geeks = pocket protectors and an inability to control their bladders!

This is awesome!

Yes, the pocket protector stuff is just pure schtick on my part. Sometimes you've got to roll with it. :tongue:

In all seriousness, I have to question the formulas that would result in Cabrera being ranked as the best defensive shortstop in the game. I don't even get to watch many Sox games, but in those few games that I have seen I've seen him make a number of boneheaded defensive plays, including failed execution on rundowns. He's also got a bit or Royce Clayton in him; he puts into his pocket some balls that Uribe would rifle to first base. It saves him a few errors over the course of a season but it also results in more baserunners and more runs for the opposition.

Meanwhile, until very recently Cabrera has been dormant at the plate and reckless on the basepaths.

He also hasn't been as good as advertised at advancing runners.

Add to that his whining to the official scorer from the dugout and his general pouting about playing in such frigid arctic temperatures, and I've been completely underwhelmed by him.

Cabrera = Steve Sax (Swisher = Cory Snyder)

Lip Man 1

05-31-2008, 12:11 PM

Frater Says:

"Hardball Times? Gosh, I think I just urinated all over my pocket protector."

:D::D::D:

I almost spit out my soda laughing when I read that.

Well done, well played...a three point shot AND the free throw!

Lip

Craig Grebeck

05-31-2008, 12:14 PM

Frater Says:

"Hardball Times? Gosh, I think I just urinated all over my pocket protector."

:D::D::D:

I almost spit out my soda laughing when I read that.

Well done, well played...a three point shot AND the free throw!

Lip

Don't forget the extra point for originality!

It's just like high school!!!

FedEx227

05-31-2008, 06:03 PM

Yes, the pocket protector stuff is just pure schtick on my part. Sometimes you've got to roll with it. :tongue:

In all seriousness, I have to question the formulas that would result in Cabrera being ranked as the best defensive shortstop in the game. I don't even get to watch many Sox games, but in those few games that I have seen I've seen him make a number of boneheaded defensive plays, including failed execution on rundowns. He's also got a bit or Royce Clayton in him; he puts into his pocket some balls that Uribe would rifle to first base. It saves him a few errors over the course of a season but it also results in more baserunners and more runs for the opposition.

Meanwhile, until very recently Cabrera has been dormant at the plate and reckless on the basepaths.

He also hasn't been as good as advertised at advancing runners.

Add to that his whining to the official scorer from the dugout and his general pouting about playing in such frigid arctic temperatures, and I've been completely underwhelmed by him.

Cabrera = Steve Sax (Swisher = Cory Snyder)

The formula for Dewan and the Fielding Bible guys is about 200 people watching every play a player makes and ranking them on a +/- scale. So yeah, real number crunching there.

Craig Grebeck

05-31-2008, 06:10 PM

The formula for Dewan and the Fielding Bible guys is about 200 people watching every play a player makes and ranking them on a +/- scale. So yeah, real number crunching there.
Don't waste your time.

WHITE SOX PRIDE!

06-01-2008, 12:37 AM

Has anyone heard anything about this or any other trade rumors?

WhiteSox5187

06-01-2008, 01:01 AM

This is the first I've heard of it.

I want Mags back

06-01-2008, 01:39 AM

the search function is our friend

Boondock Saint

06-01-2008, 01:41 AM

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=101392

It's already been discussed here. Less than half a page down, as a matter of fact.