that's exactly what we're doing, except our melee can't even remotely keep themselves up, nor can our ranged. We're only getting through with everyone alive when i pop avenger and spam aoe heals. that was one thing I noticed on the attempts I was ret, was that I was mostly able to keep myself alive with flash heal and WoG with few external heals. I suggested that maybe people should examine their talents and see if they could heal themselves a bit, since healers can't heal all that much while dodging the lightning. Mostly the response I got was "nah we cant heal ourselves at all" which seems kind of bullshit to me, but I'm not familiar with all classes. We'll have our lock back for our next attempts and I'm sure the healthstones will help, at least.

I know static wound overlaps so theres some damage regardless, does our damage taken from it seem high in general or is there some specific number you're looking at that implies tanks may have been taunting wrong? Thats definitely something to look into.

Also, a LOT of our deaths were at the end of the lightning storm, we had people survive with low health and he would immediately static shock the tank dealing 250k to the raid and killing anyone with low health. Is that normal? we just have to make sure everyone has enough health every time?

---------- Post added 2013-03-27 at 11:40 PM ----------

I assume like the below poster you mean just to time it with the static shock, since thats the only source of raid damage during that phase?

The static wound is the spell which hits the raid when the tank gets 10 debuffs applied upon static burst and the boss keeps hitting him. The raid shouldn't be getting hit by the debuff damage from static wound at all since the debuff is applied a few seconds AFTER static burst and the tanks should be taunting quickly after the static burst. Sometimes, it will get a little messed up, but for example in your last fight, you should probably not be taking over a million damage from it.

Also, if your DPS can't survive the lightning phase and they're far away from your healers tell them they need to just stick in an area with healers. There's no excuse for going and dying to dps as dead DPS is no DPS. The enrage timer on this fight is not tight at all, our guild typically kills him after the second storm and we probably have a similar iLVL as you (9/16 last tier). They honestly can't just say well I'm gonna sit in a place so I can DPS just heal me, if I die well then that's your fault. Also I looked at your logs and your two melee dps are a windwalker monk and an enhancement shaman. I don't know much about a windwalker monk but if your enhancement shaman hits his damage reduction cooldown, he should be able to live through the storm with very little healing as long as he doesn't get hit by orbs. You could also sit one healed with the melee and tank to heal them that way.

Just in summary, this fight can be done with some mistakes but things in your logs like anything that ends with conduction, or static wound on people who are not tanks if minimized could make this fight a lot easier to heal.

Cinders aren't one of our problems. We had deaths from it on that attempt due to a lack of communication.

Also, to your other point on the kill order. I think that's the best way as well. We had a few attempts where we were killing blue and it's just crazy since there is so much running to do.

Definitely go with the strat of only killing green and red heads. The damage from frost is pitiful even when he's got a lot of buff stacks. Have your warrior tank so he can put shield barrier up in case he gets stunned by breath stacks.

From a healing perspective I notice a couple things you should work on.

- Zelios is not using cd's on this fight. On multiple attempts he doesn't use Avenging Wrath or GoaK at all, and doesn't get much use from Divine Favor or Holy Avenger. I'd also consider having him swap to Light's Hammer for this fight since it's going to outperform prism when you can stack up.
- Xaeil is using spirit shell a LOT early in the fight where it shouldn't be necessary. It's making his numbers amazing early on, but its a big hit on his mana that isn't really necessary and is pretty clearly hurting him later in the fight. I'm healing this fight with a shammy and a disc priest and the only cd we used for the first rampage was my AW popped with Light's Hammer. Even then I'm still leaving big pauses in my HR/HS/LoD rotation because everyone's topped off.
- You're not getting any kind of mana return from seal of insight which will probably help later in the fight. The only reason to stay out of melee is to keep cinders under control but if you take your sprint talent in tier 1 that's not a problem.

Only really looking at this from a healing perspective, but the big things seem to be that you aren't rotating cooldowns efficiently and a lot of mana is being burned on the first 2 or 3 rampages which are much lighter damage than later ones when you really need the healing.

Only really looking at this from a healing perspective, but the big things seem to be that you aren't rotating cooldowns efficiently and a lot of mana is being burned on the first 2 or 3 rampages which are much lighter damage than later ones when you really need the healing.

I can attest to this, damage does ramp up so while it's fun to go all-out, it's definitely smarter to save at least something for the end. (The first few weeks, ironically, I did the former before realizing after this week that oh, right, it does ramp up).

The static wound is the spell which hits the raid when the tank gets 10 debuffs applied upon static burst and the boss keeps hitting him. The raid shouldn't be getting hit by the debuff damage from static wound at all since the debuff is applied a few seconds AFTER static burst and the tanks should be taunting quickly after the static burst. Sometimes, it will get a little messed up, but for example in your last fight, you should probably not be taking over a million damage from it.

He reapplies static wounds too early to take no damage from it; the debuff lasts 20 seconds and he casts it every 15 as I recall. I looked into the numbers a bit and the amount of damage we took seems about right given that its doubled while we're in the pool.

Hes doing nowhere near enough Holy Shocks, which is causing his Eternal Flame to be a lot lower than it should be, in turn causing his Mastery to not be stacked when damage comes in, get him to fix that and he should be fine

You should also probably have posted this in the Hpally Fix my heals thread

He barely uses any AoEs.
Unless he was assigned to heal the tanks it certainly isn't right...
Also, as said above, he doesn't seem to take full advantage of Holy Shock, which is the key to the most powerful healing spells!

Its funny, last time i asked in another thread, the people said he is using HR way too much, i told him that he is creating tons of overheal and is getting oom quick, and now it seems he just dont use them at all.... i guess i have to kick him finally out of the raid..

Hey all, we have a new paladin filling in on our 10m group, was a warrior and has newly converted to his pally. iLvl 502 and he seems to be managing mana better than he had been previously in alt runs through ToES and HoF, but throughput is lacking.

The only log I have is of our Tortos 10N kill this week. Could any of you look over his spell usage, gearing strategy, and cooldown usage? I have a very vague basis of HPally from a Cata alt and not sure on where he needs more focus...not enough Holy Shock? Too much Holy Radiance etc

He does not to my knowledge switch glyphs or talents per fight thus far, he is still feeling out the new class and we want him to get used to the correct playstyle while he is learning, as opposed to teaching himself bad habits.

**Thank you for locking original thread, I had read through the initial post of this one and added what was asked, but apparently missed the fact it should be posted in this very thread**

New Holy Pala in Raid

We are currently at 12/12 NH and today we had our first 3 hours trying on HC Jinrokh
The main reason why I'm posting here is because our Raidlead and our other 2 Healers think he is doing something terrible wrong
Sometimes his healing is below our two Tanks

The only log I have is of our Tortos 10N kill this week. Could any of you look over his spell usage, gearing strategy, and cooldown usage? I have a very vague basis of HPally from a Cata alt and not sure on where he needs more focus...not enough Holy Shock? Too much Holy Radiance etc

He does not to my knowledge switch glyphs or talents per fight thus far, he is still feeling out the new class and we want him to get used to the correct playstyle while he is learning, as opposed to teaching himself bad habits.

For being new to the class he's doing OK: He casted 52 Holy Shocks which is about a 7.6sec delay between casts, so if he doesn't have 4pc that's fine. He's at least using his CD's but he should be using divine protection or divine shield for quake stomps.

The biggest issue I'd have is that if he's new to the class, in my opinion, switching around glyphs and talents is exactly what he should be doing. There's no point in getting into a "comfort zone" situation when most talents are designed to be switched. For Tortos-specific case, it's obvious he's getting nothing from Light's Hammer, so he should consider Holy Prism.

For being new to the class he's doing OK: He casted 52 Holy Shocks which is about a 7.6sec delay between casts, so if he doesn't have 4pc that's fine. He's at least using his CD's but he should be using divine protection or divine shield for quake stomps.

The biggest issue I'd have is that if he's new to the class, in my opinion, switching around glyphs and talents is exactly what he should be doing. There's no point in getting into a "comfort zone" situation when most talents are designed to be switched. For Tortos-specific case, it's obvious he's getting nothing from Light's Hammer, so he should consider Holy Prism.

Sorry if I mislead, but that's what I meant to say. I'd like to see him use different tools for different fights, lord knows I burn through a lot of tomes myself. I was more concerned with the over/under-usage of certain abilities that cause bad habits. I had the worst habit on my old warrior that I would heroic strike immediately after I charged something and be left without rage...still sometimes do when I play him lol

We are currently at 12/12 NH and today we had our first 3 hours trying on HC Jinrokh
The main reason why I'm posting here is because our Raidlead and our other 2 Healers think he is doing something terrible wrong
Sometimes his healing is below our two Tanks

We are currently at 12/12 NH and today we had our first 3 hours trying on HC Jinrokh
The main reason why I'm posting here is because our Raidlead and our other 2 Healers think he is doing something terrible wrong
Sometimes his healing is below our two Tanks

Playing Paladin myself but only Tank & Ret - so I'm not much of help for him

Edit: Can't post any links due too less activity
I'm sry for my bad english - it has been years since I went abroad the last time

- Basically never flash of light
- Light's Hammer sucks on jin'rokh (when you're 3 healing anyway)
- holy light is 64% overheal, stop casting if they get topped off
- Glyph of Protector of the innocent is kinda horrible (nothing better on this fight but just in general)
- Eternal flame more, don't be afraid to use 1 or 2 HP Eternal Flames based on how much health is missing
- glyph beacon, always swap it to someone who needs it (active tank on this fight)

Jin'rokh is pretty 2 healable, so whoever your slowest or weakest healer is will probably not have much to heal. We (and probably most others) basically 3 heal it just to save people who hit lightning diffusions during lightning storm. Make sure that your paladin healer is at least contributing to saving people during storm; if they're not, then there's no point in having a 3rd healer.

I find it hard to do much effective healing most of the time during the storm, so I take holy avenger and am able to use it every other storm. Additionally on our kill this week, I decided to try blanketting the raid with eternal flames prior to the storm - its not that great effective healing and the overhealing is horrid, but the small shields and tiny hots help keep people's health stable for the first half of the storm.

Personally I think paladin is really bad on this particular fight, but you can overcome the class weakness with some fairly simple tactics and talent choices.

---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 08:46 AM ----------

Originally Posted by linbro

He's heavily undergeared for heroics. He's using roughly half as many holy shocks as he should. Way too few eternal flames, too many light of dawn.

Our healer wants some help on how to play her alt Holy Paladin. Her gear is on par with our druid healer, but she can't get any oomph in her cooldowns. Any tips or suggestions are appreciated. If you can see something she's doing completely wrong, please let me know and I'll forward it to her.

Our healer wants some help on how to play her alt Holy Paladin. Her gear is on par with our druid healer, but she can't get any oomph in her cooldowns. Any tips or suggestions are appreciated. If you can see something she's doing completely wrong, please let me know and I'll forward it to her.

Thanks!

No specific information or links? I will say if shes losing to a Resto Druid then theres something horribly wrong though.

Hey all. I've noticed my healing really differs from fight to fight in terms of output. I'm posting a link to our WoL parses, so you can look through and get a complete picture, rather than just one fight. Any feedback is appreciated.

"You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times."
So, its worldoflogs dot com, then see below

Hey all. I've noticed my healing really differs from fight to fight in terms of output. I'm posting a link to our WoL parses, so you can look through and get a complete picture, rather than just one fight. Any feedback is appreciated.

"You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times."
So, its worldoflogs dot com, then see below

/guilds/71800/

I'm assuming you're basing this on how you stack up against your disc priest on various fights which isn't necessarily the best way to go. Especially on Jin'rokh and Horridon, disc is very strong if played well. From what I can tell, your disc priest is either extremely gear, very skilled, or possibly both. That's not to say you shouldn't try to improve just because he's there, but its almost never a good idea to compare yourself to other healing specs purely on hps or healing done numbers.

Generally speaking, yes, your healing is going to vary a lot fight-to-fight. For one thing, if you're doing fights that you have on farm, as players get better and better at handling the mechanics and the bosses die faster and faster, there's less and less for you to do. That leaves you competing for what little healing is left with the other healers, and its simply down to first come first serve. Disc shields are always first (except for pally mastery and other absorbs), so they frequently do very well on farm fights, particularly when they know exactly when and how to get the most out of things like spirit shell and PW:S.

If you're looking for things to improve, here are some things to think about.
- Pallies are the ultimate utility class. We have spells for damn near every situation imaginable from tanking cooldowns to mobility to clearing bleeds to raw healing power. The difference between a good pally healer and a great one is how much you can get out of the utility portion of your class rather than just the raw throughput aspect. Use your hand spells, try to figure out places to make them work for you. Things like Hand of Purity may not boost you on the meters, but anyone who knows what to look for on logs will see things like that and know you're doing your job.

- Fight-to-fight adjustments are huge this expansion, especially for holy. Now that respecing can be done on the fly, take advantage of it. Personally, I change at least 2-3 tiers of my talents between almost every fight in throne. Not strictly necessary, but something to think about if you really want to optimize your performance. Light's Hammer vs. Holy Prism is a huge one. Light's Hammer may be more powerful on paper, but if you can't get people stacked in it for most of its uptime, it can end up being dead weight in your spec. Pick up prism and use it for those quick bursts of healing when people are spread out or if you just need a spike heal on the tank and even FoL isn't fast enough.

- Understand when is the time to pad the meters and when is the time to conserve mana and play your class as efficiently as possible. If your priest is going to spirit shell a Megaera rampage, you probably don't want to overlap with your own cooldowns. Maybe that's the time to swing your sword at the boss for some free maan while no one's taking damage anyway, then burst out some big healing with shell wears off. If you have a fight on farm, mess around with things like 1xEF blanketting or other tricks to boost your hps