On 16/06/2011 nmonteith wrote:>On 15/06/2011 Wendy wrote:>>A week! Fûck! I don't have a week to take off ... After 3 weeks here>on>>a 2 on 1 off schedule, i am pretty knackered>>I was on the 10 days on, one day off schedule. I felt like I was on a>prison chain gaing my the end. I could hardly lift my arms above my head>and every finger was taped.>
I'd have been unable to get out of bed! I did notice that the regulars had a sensible program of not starting until it cooled down in the late arvo, doing 2-3 pitches and going home. Mad Australians and Germans however, got up with the sun, enjoyed beautiful early morning coolness, failed abysmally to stick to the proposed agenda of a long lunch and swimming break in the heat of the day, were still climbing when the US crew arrived and usually still there when they left. Still, it was awesome fun and I like feeling trashed.

>> ... but the weather's really>>good this week, i don't want to take a few days off! Is the New any>more>>gentle on the body?>>YES!! If you haven't been there yet - GO THERE! The climbing style is>way less thuggy. It is an Arapiles clone, but with more bolted stuff. The>New rock is much smoother and the routes aren't about fighting the pump>- but more about solving tricky sequences and wiggling in trad. I was like>a kid in a candy shop - it was like the first time I went to Arapiles and>there was this endless smorgasbord of the best routes I'd ever seen. It's>always way less crowded and the rest day activities are more civilized>(the town is very nice - a couple of good restaurants and cafes.)

Well, we made it to the new and I'm sorely disappointed! Everyone makes that Arapiles comparison, but as an Arapiles coddled snob, I reckon it's about as accurate as the comparison of the Rock to Arapiles is! I'd compare it to Morialta. Which is a fairly damning comparison! There's lots of rock, it's all single pitch, if you wander around enough, you find the odd good route, but I'm certainly not in a candy shop! Which crags did you go to? Where are they hiding these best routes you have ever seen? We were at Endless Wall yesterday, did a bunch of stuff from Fern Pt down to Honeymoon ladders, 2 of the routes we did were pretty cool, I'd be happy to have them in my back yard, but that about it. Today we were at Bridge Buttress, it was polished, damp, grey, short mank. We retired for coffee in town in despair (you're right about town though, it's way nicer than the options in the red!). We might check out Kaymoor this arvo, but as it's been pretty wet, it'll probably be seeping. It is way easier on the body ... but I feel a bit like I do when I'm at some crag because you're stuck in the town for some other reason and the rock just happens to be there. I'm climbing it because it's there, not because I'm inspired by it. Think we'll be back at the Red in a few days.

On 18/06/2011 Wendy wrote:>Well, we made it to the new and I'm sorely disappointed!

Oh no!

>Everyone makes>that Arapiles comparison, but as an Arapiles coddled snob, I reckon it's>about as accurate as the comparison of the Rock to Arapiles is! I'd compare>it to Morialta. Which is a fairly damning comparison!

I was a bit worried that you would directly compare it. Yes its all single pitch but it certainly isn't Morialta!

There's lots of>rock, it's all single pitch, if you wander around enough, you find the>odd good route, but I'm certainly not in a candy shop!

>Which crags did>you go to? Where are they hiding these best routes you have ever seen?>We were at Endless Wall yesterday, did a bunch of stuff from Fern Pt down>to Honeymoon ladders, 2 of the routes we did were pretty cool, I'd be happy>to have them in my back yard, but that about it.

Give it time Wendy. It doesn't have the side by side by side consumerism of the Red. You do have to walk between the good lines usually. Sadly I don't have the guide (I lent it to Claw) so im going to be hopeless about telling you whats good or not. We had two or three good days at Endless Wall - did heaps of great trad routs and sport routes. Major corners and splitter cracks and a few bolted walls. One of the more consumer friendly crags was on the way way right end of Endless Wall (might have another name?). The crag on the lake was a great fun day (avoid the 3 star classics and do the 2 stars if you don't like spoodge). Also went to several other areas near a river - a route called Toxic Heuco was amazing.

>Today we were at Bridge>Buttress, it was polished, damp, grey, short mank.

Never went there. I'd suggest you don't aim for the consumer routes but instead for the major lines. That's where this place shines. Its like the Grampians - the major lines are brilliant but can sometimes be on their lonesome. If you just want to clip bolts go back to the Red. Don't be afraid to get on something with thin gear - getting a little scared makes it even more classic!

>... but I feel a bit like I do when I'm at some crag because you're>stuck in the town for some other reason and the rock just happens to be>there. I'm climbing it because it's there, not because I'm inspired by>it. Think we'll be back at the Red in a few days.

Im finding this really wierd. Adam and I were there for a week and felt like we hardly scratched the surface. We walked past so much good climbing and had a list a mile long of things we wanted to go back to. We both agreed we preferred it to the Red (and remember I LOVE steep pumpy sport climbing). We were there in icy conditions (sub zero for more than 12 hours a day) so spoodge wasn't a problem for us.

On 18/06/2011 nmonteith wrote:
. >>Give it time Wendy. It doesn't have the side by side by side consumerism>of the Red. You do have to walk between the good lines usually. Sadly I>don't have the guide (I lent it to Claw) so im going to be hopeless about>telling you whats good or not. We had two or three good days at Endless>Wall - did heaps of great trad routs and sport routes. Major corners and>splitter cracks and a few bolted walls. One of the more consumer friendly>crags was on the way way right end of Endless Wall (might have another>name?). The crag on the lake was a great fun day (avoid the 3 star classics>and do the 2 stars if you don't like spoodge). Also went to several other>areas near a river - a route called Toxic Heuco was amazing.

We went to Toxic heuco yesterday - it did look awesome. Sadly I got on the 10d next door, Chimpanzbubbas, to warm up again first, and it turned out to be covered in spiders! So here I was about 3/4 of the way up dodging spiders all over the place with no idea if they were the bitey sort or the poisonous sort - after about 11 of them, I lost my spider tolerance and decided downclimbing involved distrubing less spiders then going up and retreated. By which stage I was in no mood to brave another route on the cliff!

The other hassle with this crag is it's inherently reachy. It's just in the nature of the rock - all those horizontals with smooth glassy rock between them. So anything that isn't a crack is caining my fingers and elbows and pissing me off because I hate supposedly easy consistantly reachy nonsense. We were up at the crag by the lake today - beautiful spot, nice swimming. The rock's good, just lots of reachy nonsense. And popular. I did enjoy the 6-7 crack routes we did, but a lot of the best looking lines are damp - it keeps showering or storming on top of a really wet spring. >>Im finding this really wierd. Adam and I were there for a week and felt>like we hardly scratched the surface. We walked past so much good climbing>and had a list a mile long of things we wanted to go back to. We both agreed>we preferred it to the Red (and remember I LOVE steep pumpy sport climbing).>We were there in icy conditions (sub zero for more than 12 hours a day)>so spoodge wasn't a problem for us.

See, I can't understand that at all! I feel like I can do the best bits of here in Australia any old time, and better stuff, but the Red is one of those really unique crags of cool, hard face climbing without reach problems! All those pockets mean there's always something usable around. Only conglomerate stuff has been that awesome before. So, I'm the kid in the candy shop there! Anyway, to each there own ...

A couple of points while I'm briefly back on the grid.
Crazyjohn makes the interesting proposition that fires are integral to recreation at Arapiles. With due respect, that's a load of tosh.
For simey's benefit, my nonuse of fires was mentioned because other people in the thread have painted Natimuk residents as non-campers.
I believe that the low number of fireplaces at Arapiles is a fire control measure. Perhaps if people used only those fireplaces and showed that they were prepared to conform with reasonable regulations then things might be different.

On 19/06/2011 Kieranl wrote:>A couple of points while I'm briefly back on the grid.>Crazyjohn makes the interesting proposition that fires are integral to>recreation at Arapiles. With due respect, that's a load of tosh.

And I respectfully disagree with you Kieran. A campfire is something mankind has been enjoying in the outdoors for hundreds of thousands of years. It was the original family table where members of the tribe caught up with the days gossip and shared stories of past glories. To me it's very much part of the Arapiles experience.

On 19/06/2011 nmonteith wrote:>>And I respectfully disagree with you Kieran. A campfire is something mankind>has been enjoying in the outdoors for hundreds of thousands of years. It>was the original family table where members of the tribe caught up with>the days gossip and shared stories of past glories. To me it's very much>part of the Arapiles experience.

I'd have to disagree with that too. Simply because by that logic all the time I've spent over Summer at Araps when I wasn't allowed a fire / didn't really want a fire by definition I didn't get the true / full Arapiles experience.

I'm pretty impartial on this one (and this isn't directed at Neil) but both sides of the argument, especially the main protagonists, have been exaggerating and presenting their personal opinions as facts. Sure it's probably more interesting and less effort to write that way, but when you read what's being written it's getting a little silly in many occasions.

I have been there in spring and summer and my god spring is cold! Call me a warm blooded new south Welshman but a fire was pretty essential for any sort of socializing in spring. Sure you could use someones tent but it's pretty hard to meet new people that way - I'm not sure the only people with a big tent at the pines, a family, would appreciate me and three friends turning up with a box of wine wanting a good yarn and a song.

You can have a great time without a fire but they provide a number of benifits:
-warmth enough to stay outside in a cold night (autumn, winter, spring)
-brings different groups together round the same fire
-good place to socialize with people
-it's just nice to have a fire

Sure you can forgo the fire, but you meet less people and have less time to socialize with others. I really like the fact that at Arapiles having a fire makes approaching others so much easier.

Another reason why this proposal is completely arsewise - is the implication that it is only the campers at the mount that are collecting these environmentally devastating amounts of wood. I'll give ya that they are the most likely culprits within a hundred metres of the campground (which doesn't exactly resemble a scene from The Road, by the way).

However, all the other places with road access are just as likely to be raided by locals as a camper (maybe moreso as they'd surely have a car).

The AAC should put their moral superiority where there mouth is and petition for a total ban on wood fires in Natimuk.

On 20/06/2011 useful wrote:>>The AAC should put their moral superiority where there mouth is and petition>for a total ban on wood fires in Natimuk.

Absolutely! But don't stop there, as that pack of whining middle class arse wipes will just start burning coal, so ban burning coal as well, completely, everywhere, including the Latrobe Valley. And make sure they don't just start up a nuclear reactor either. They should just harden up sweethearts!

Coal comes from a pit, a pit that is very deep in the ground. This pit that is very deep in the ground is a long long long away from the pines. Pits that are very deep in the ground and a long long long away have no impact on the (bio) diversity of a weevil's life that lives in a shrub in the pines. Maybe it means a little more to gnats living in Natimuk.

What's all this return to topic again? Neil and I were having a discussion about NRG!

Anyway, Neil, I finally found a route that salvaged the reputation of the New. Four Sheets to the Wind. The most Arapiles like rock I've found hear, a corner through 3 overhangs, awesome fun. But we are still heading back to the Red today as a combination of:

all this for what ? question of cohabitation between humain and animals in the park ,by beeing there we are disturbing animals and we are burning plants (dead or alive)
no fires in arapilies (or reduction) will not change the fact that we dont know how to live with others beings

Yep and they could have done stuff like split some long sections of timber and placed them over in the gums in the run-off channels that have developed to slow down and disperse fast flowing water when it rains hard so erosion is minimised. It does not really seem that Parks Victoria has any sort of coherent vision for Tuan Arapiles State Park ...