The Interview: Angela Allen – The Third Man

Published on 24 June 2015

With a career spent working on films such as Carol Reed’s The Third Man, John Huston’s The African Queen, Robert Aldrich’s The Dirty Dozen and Roman Polanski’s Macbeth it is fair to say that Angela Allen has one of the most diverse and interesting filmographies around. It’s a career that aspiring Directors and Producers simply dream of.

While Angela Allen spent most of her time working in the film industry as a Script Supervisor she also shot second unit rushes for some of the aforementioned Director’s showing the trust they had in her diligent work ethic and keen eye for detail. Cutting her teeth on The Third Man with Director Carol Reed, Allen notes that she learned a lot from the man as he served as her “chief mentor”. However, her most longstanding collaboration was with Academy Award winner John Huston whom she shot fourteen films with including successes such as The African Queen, The Misfits and The Man Who Would Be King. Did she know that any of the films she worked on would be successes? “No, you never know, including the Director. You can only hope it will be a success.” In looking back at The Third Man she adds, “I can honestly say none of us knew it was going to turn into the success that it has done.” The poignancy and relevance of The Third Man is obvious with its re-release in 4K in cinemas this Friday.

In Allen’s poised yet thoughtful answers what is so fascinating is the wealth of knowledge she has accrued about film. Aspiring Writers, Directors and Producers, and even those currently working in the industry, would do well to listen to Angela who, with over 50 years of experience, has heaps of practical advice when it comes to filmmaking. From stories of how Carol Reed would bridge edits in the cutting room to the ways in which Director’s would gain experience there are so many instances where filmmakers can grow by simply listening to Allen.

After receiving a BAFTA Outstanding British Contribution to Cinema Award in 2005 she admits that it was an honour but is quick to point out the issue with such awards: “you don’t get job offers again and people automatically think you must be too old.” So would she be interested in returning to her role as Script Supervisor? “Never say never. In this industry you never say you retire officially.”

Today, Hunger sits down with Angela to discuss her fifty year career and working with legends such as Reed, Huston, Katherine Hepburn, Michael Caine and Sean Connery. She also details her dissatisfaction with the British film system arguing that we see “the same story again and again” and she hasn’t seen “anybody who is in the class of the David Lean’s and Carol Reed’s.” It is what makes Angela Allen one of the most interesting and unique figures in the history of the British filmmaking.

What did the role of Script Supervisor involve and what did you look out for while on set?

The role of Script Supervisor was formerly called Continuity, which was changed in 1979 really because of the Tax Man. It made more sense because the American title was Script Supervisor and it sounded better. It sounds more superior to Continuity.

The job is not a secretarial job although you need to be able to type but in those days you didn’t have a computer when I started. You are watching all the details. You have to sit by the director and watch everything that happens. When somebody stands up, when they sit down and on which word so if you do a master shot you’ve noted it all down. When you come to do a close-up you’ve got to say when they don’t rise on the word as the master shot. “No it won’t match, we’ve got to go again. He’s got to give the cup with the right hand, etc.” You’re watching all the details, people come and ask you where the props are because things get moved around. Today you have the digital camera you also have video which makes it considerably easier than when I started. You didn’t have Polaroid cameras, which was invented during my lifetime, and, as I said you have digitals and video, we certainly didn’t have video so you had to wait and sweat blood the next morning to see the rushes.

It’s detail. It’s everything. You’re responsible for noting if the clothes are wrong. You’ve got to break down the script. It is what a lot of “Producers” think of as a glorified secretarial job. No, if you’re going to be any good at it you take an intelligent interest in the script, you point out to the Director when you feel that he needs extra coverage or [question if] we’re going to do inserts. You participate. In my day I was lucky to work with Director’s who allowed me to have an input and even say when I didn’t like a take. You are, in some respects, a second pair of eyes for the Director. I think in the past the job was more highly esteemed by Director’s than it is today. There’s a lot of arrogance, especially amongst young English Director’s, who seem to think they know everything when they come out of film school.

As part of your job entailed suggesting different shots and coverage would it be fair to say that there’s definitely a creative aspect to your role?

Well yes. It could be and it was in my day but I’m hearing today it isn’t. They don’t listen when somebody says, “it doesn’t match”. The answer is “I don’t care, nobody will notice.” Actually they do notice. Also, it makes it harder in the edit if you want to cut from somebody rising. If they rise in the long shot on one sentence but then the close up on a different one then you can’t cut in the middle. You are going to have cut slightly differently.

The art of the Script Girl was to notice all these things and point it out to the Director’s when things didn’t go the same way. Actors would often ask you “did I use my left hand” or “did I get up there” and it’s up to you to tell them providing the Director agrees. It isn’t just a glorified secretary’s job. You get people today who say “well anybody could do it” but you could cost the company an awful lot of money if you have somebody come down in the wrong costume. You have to point it out.

How did you prepare and what was your mind-set heading on to set? Did you receive the scripts before you went to set and did you go through them thoroughly?

First of all I would be phoned and asked if I was interested and you might have to go along for an interview. Even before that happens, if you’re known, you’re sent a script and asked to time it. Now that’s an educated guess because you don’t know where the locations are or who the actors are going to be. But if you’ve done it long enough you’re going to have a good idea. They say a minute equals one page well it’s not quite that. You have to time it accurately because if it comes out to two hours and 20 minutes for a film that frankly should only run say one hour 40 minutes it’s up to them to start editing the script.

Then you’re normally taken on, depending on the size of the film, two to three weeks before to prepare and break it down. You break it down into days and nights, when costume changes can occur, put down notes in your own script so if it says at the end “she produces the locket” she was wearing right at the beginning but was never mentioned in the script you have to write that down. You find any anomalies in the script which through various changes have occurred sometimes. You point out all these things to the Director to make them aware any things in the script that don’t make too much sense or that are wrong.

It sounds similar to some of the roles that the 1st Assistant Director has now taken on in contemporary filmmaking.

No, no. The 1st Assistant breaks down the script. It follows the American system. He makes the schedule in conjunction with the Production Manager. He makes the schedules and that is his job. He estimates how many extras he’s going to need in each scene or those kind of things. I don’t have to estimate “I think there should be ten extras” that’s his job to decide in conjunction with the Director.

Then when you’re working on the floor and the 1st Assistant is there you give him a list of shots that the Director wants to shoot that day. It’s a team, it’s teamwork. Well it should be anyway.

The Third Man was one of the first films you worked on. What did you learn from director Carol Reed that would help you throughout the rest of your career?

Carol Reed was a very accomplished Director. I used to take, when we came back to England, notes in the cutting room of how you can get away with certain things and how to cut. He was an absolute master of knowing how to make things match from locations from using a wall to going into a studio. He knew what he wanted. He knew his angles. He knew what could cut together. I learnt a great deal and I feel in many ways he was my chief mentor. I was on the 2nd Unit but he’d come if there was an actor in the scene. He used to work day and night.

You mentioned he taught you some of the things you could get away with in the editing room. Can you reveal what some of these are?

He would remember the steam at the end of the shot after he’d said cut, of say the train. He would use that little bit of film to bridge another cut. He knew if an actor wasn’t matching but he always had enough film and shots to be able to cut away. That’s why he would always have shots so he could get out of something if it doesn’t work.

How did you initially feel about The Third Man and did your opinion change over time?

Whenever you make a film you have no idea of whether it’s going to be a success or not. You hope it will be. I can honestly say none of us knew it was going to turn into the success that it has done. No, you never know, including the Director. You can only hope it will be a success.

Why do you think it was so successful?

I think it depicted a time just after the War and it showed the crookedness going on, the blackmail, and nothing’s changed. There’s always a character that deals in blackmail and doesn’t give a damn about peoples lives. It’s normally people with a certain amount of charisma which Orson Welles (who played Harry Lime) certainly depicted.

Who were some of your favourite directors to work with and why?

Certainly Carol was but also John Huston who I did 14 pictures with so we must have got on. [Laughs]

How would you characterise your relationship with John Houston and what did you learn from him?

I was sent to him on The African Queen sight unseen, I think I was 20 or 21 at the time. He was in Africa when a lot of the crew were chosen. Not the Cameraman and Art Director, that was obviously before. I was selected by Sam Spiegel, the Producer, who thought I was young, I was the youngest in the business, and he thought I would be healthy and survive Africa, which of course I did.

I met Huston in Africa. There wasn’t much he could do about it but presumably we got on. I even had to direct some 2nd Unit at the end when they left me behind with the camera to pick up certain shots. Then he asked for me on his next pictures because he knew that I knew his style. If Producers and people came down to set and asked “what are you going to do?” he would say “well I’m certainly not going through it with you. Go and ask her. She knows the way I shoot.” He had confidence in me and it was a collaborative effort. I stayed friends with him and I’m still friends with Angelica Huston and the rest of the family. It was a long term working relationship.

Do you have a favourite film that you collaborated on?

I think in many ways I liked, because I liked the story, The Man Who Would Be King. That’s one of my favourites. Obviously, The African Queen as well because I’d never been to Africa. It was certainly a hard and tough physical job. It was very formative.

You’ve worked on several Shakespeare films. What are some of the different challenges that Shakespeare films present?

Well they don’t in one respect. It’s wonderful because they can’t change the dialogue. They can’t ad lib. The actors who normally do Shakespeare are, of course, wonderful on their lines and it’s enjoyable to hear the language. I did Macbeth with Polanski and that was certainly different. He is a very talented person.

Polanski’s Macbeth was one of the first Shakespeare films I ever saw. What was the atmosphere like on set because it’s a very dark film?

Oh it had its moments especially with Roman and it did go somewhat over schedule but it was fascinating for me to work on it. He could be quite difficult. I don’t mind difficult people when they’re talented and he most certainly is. He could recite the play virtually. He could do everybody’s lines. It was a hard one. We went to Wales and it was terrible weather up there. In those days there wasn’t proper central heating and everyday you would get soaked to the skin. It was fascinating and I’m delighted that I worked on it.

You’ve been on set with some incredible talents from Orson Welles to Katherine Hepburn to Burt Reynolds as well as Sean Connery and Michael Caine. Who sticks out for you the most?

Certainly not Orson Welles because although I encountered him on The Third Man, I also encountered him a few more times with Huston, he was much more distant shall we say. He didn’t really mix as opposed to Katherine, she didn’t have anybody else on The African Queen, as she was there on her own. I must say Sean, who I worked with more than once, I enjoyed working with and always got on with Sean and Michael. They became friends on The Man Who Would Be King but I worked with them both on other films as well.

What advice would you give to emerging directors?

Most of them seem to go to film schools and obviously that varies. I do say, when I occasionally give lectures at some schools, is they make a short, you could call it a calling card, and learn that it is a collaborative effort. It isn’t a one-man band. I would say when they get themselves a feature film it is a little stupid, I blame young Producers too, they want to work with their friends from school. On your first film it’s better to work with people who’ve been experienced and can help you rather than the blind leading the blind. They’ve come straight out of film school and made a short. A short isn’t the same as making a full-length feature. It’s better to take people who’ve had experience on your first film than going in with all your college friends. In the old days old these big Director’s learnt as on their first film they were given very experienced cameramen.

What do you think of the current state of the British film industry as opposed to when you first broke in?

I personally can’t stand what I have denoted as f*** and c*** films. With so many English films it’s the same old story. Somebody punching or killing each other. You can guess the story before you go in. The only dialogue are the two words f*** and c*** which are boring. I’m certainly not squeamish but we actually have a rather rich language. I think some of the films today are very poorly made. The looks are wrong. Things that maybe you wouldn’t notice but I do.

It’s interesting looking at your filmography because it’s so diverse. Would it be fair to say that you don’t get that same diversity of films in the industry today?

I always think that the most talented people, they have a style, they’re like a painter. You can recognise their films when you see them. Like Billy Wilder would use long tracking shots. That was his style and that worked. That was with Huston [as well]. We weren’t making the same film every time.

When did you find out that you were going to receive a BAFTA Outstanding British Contribution to Cinema Award? What did it mean for you and your career?

They did tell me in advance so I had to write a speech and go along for the rehearsal. It’s quite funny, and I agree with a lot of actors and people who’ve said it, the moment I got awards you don’t get job offers again and people automatically think you must be too old. It has its disadvantages as well [laughs]. The honour is nice and you get dressed up for the evening but it doesn’t, shall we say, perpetuate your career.

With that being said would be interested in working on feature films still?

I’m not so sure now at this age because of the hours today. By the time you’ve travelled to wherever, it’s minimum 12 hour shooting and normally six days a week. Do I at this age want to work 16 or 17 hours a day? I’m not sure that I do. I mean I could. Who knows? Never say never. In this industry you never say you retire officially. I mean some people do but I actually have never said that.

Moving forward what do you hope to see in the future for the film industry?

One always hopes that it will carry on and get better and of course there will be more and more innovations. We’ve got the digital cameras. A lot of Cameramen still don’t think the results are as good but I’m sure it will go on. Although at the moment a lot of people think that television is doing better work.

I think the trouble with the English is that everything is low budgets and cheap. Well what’s the point, to me I will never understand this, to make five or ten very low budget films and none of the make a penny? Why not make one or two bigger ones, good ones? “Oh well we’re giving people a chance.” But there’s people who are approving them and some of the stories, and as I’ve said, it’s the same story again and again. If you came along with a very witty and charming film I don’t think you’ve got a hope in hell of getting it passed. It might entertain the public but the so-called gritty, f*** and c***, that’s all we seem to back.

There are an abundance of great things out there. We’ve got an abundance of great actors. I’m not sure, to be honest, that we have an abundance of great Director’s coming up. I haven’t seen anybody who is in the class of the David Lean’s and Carol Reed’s.

The Third Man will be out in cinemas on Friday June 26th and on DVD and Blu-Ray on July 20th.