Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

The ancients didn't know the planets were planets, like we know they are planets.They called them gods because they presumed they were gods.They called them gods because they looked so awesome in the sky (not like they look today), and at times they caused dramatic events on Earth.

There wasn't anything more important to them, than to pass on the knowledge of what these gods done.~Paul

I sincerely congratulate you with this genuine cosmic and spiritual experience Have you thought of what this really means, spiritually meeting the goddess Nuit, a clerarly stated Milky Way goddess, under the Milky Way contours?

Thank you.It was a profound and life changing experience.

I certainly understand why you´re having "problems with my literal translations". I too have had the very much same spiritual experience of the Milky Way goddess as you describes, (so we are indeed kindred spirits) but I´ve transformed this mythical/mystic experience to deal with real cosmological informations about the Milky Way formation and the Story of Creation.

Some of the things you say make logical sense, but it doesn't all come together for me.Not like Velikovsky and Talbot's theories, which appears to have left major physical scars visible in the current Solar system such as the electric scars on Mars, and a retrograde and overly hot Venus.

Note: As the Egyptian goddess Hathor and Nuit Milky Way goddesses is equal to the Greek goddess Aphrodite and the Roman goddess Venus, who gave name to planet Venus, isn´t it then natural logics to place the Venus myth and its attributes to the Milky Way and NOT to planet Venus? I´m quite sure of this. And you should really be too, having a personal meeting with the very essence of this.

The wind cries Mary.

I can account for a lot of myth with spiritual interpretations, or physical interpretations.For example, serpents and dragons, interpreted spiritually are spirits, to see a physical one we call it a plasmoid. Which causes me to wonder if spirits are living intelligent beings made of plasma.(But that's another topic )

- Feel free to contact me personally if you like to have a chat on some spiritual experiences.

Thanks for the biblical reference. It's Jewish rather than Christian so it doesn't affect my understanding. I've not had chance to read the psalm properly yet.

I am a Jew, circumcised of God.

Zeus is universal mind and the god of justice among other things. Athene is nous and the goddess of wisdom, weaving and warfare among other things. That is not just my opinion but that of lots of ancient Greek philosophers and modern scholars

Even astrology still keeps these meanings.

And what were you pointing to?

Are you still asking this?

And so you do know what I was referring to.

No I don't.

Obvious, what you were saying was what I was pointing to.

Questions you cannot answer you mean?

I could answer it. My answer would be,No, it is not one of a string of assertions.

You might have to go back to page 10 of this thread to remember the question (or how it was asked).

It was asked to see if you could back up your statement. The answer is obviously 'no'.

My backup here is Velikovsky and Talbot.They have done the research, and have got the references, for the TBP interpretation.You are the one disputing the interpretation, so I'm looking what evidence you got.

There are no differences in the ancient usage. The modern usages are irrelevant.

Ancient vs modern definitions was the differentiation I was making.

No a myth is a myth; a parable is a parable. They are two different literary devices.

Thanks for elaborating.

No, I was referring to the fact that neither the planet Saturn nor the god Kronos (or any of his counterparts) feature much in mythology.

Unless other cultures gave him a different name.

Not particularly but they did give us the constellations and various asterisms.

I don't know how to verify this, but according to Talbot naming the constellations came later.

It has been my experience on various fora that people who, like you, respond in single short sentences do so in an attempt to hide their lack of knowledge and understanding in the topic being discussed.

Judge not by appearances.

You could have just asked me to elaborate on any point, but you were forthcoming with your knowledge instead, showing me you knew what I was referring to in my short remarks.

Norman is Danish yet he still manages to provide full responses using proper sentence structure.

Thank you for your excellent linking to the "Way of the Goddess". It really resonates with the essence of my own Milky Way Goddess vision and to my works and understanding of interpreting the mytho-cosmological contents.

The steeds that bear me carried me as far as ever my heartDesired, since they brought me and set me on the renownedWay of the goddess, who with her own hands conducts the manwho knows through all things. On what way was I bornealong; for on it did the wise steeds carry me, drawing my car, and maidens showed the way. And the axle, glowing in the socket - for it was urged round by the whirling wheels at eachend - gave forth a sound as of a pipe, when the daughters of theSun, hasting to convey me into the light, threw back their veilsfrom off their faces and left the abode of Night.-------------And thou shalt know the origin of all the things on high, and all the signs in the sky, and the resplendent works of the glowing sun’s clear torch, and whence they arose. And thou shalt learn likewise of the wandering deeds of the round-faced moon, and of her origin. Thou shalt know, too, the heavens that surround us, whence they arose, and how Necessity tookthem and bound them to keep the limits of the stars . . .

How the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the sky that is common to all, and the Milky Way, and the outermost Olympos, and the burning might of the stars arose.

To me this poem, and my own visions, furthermore convince me that the spiritual vision of creation still and always is possible throughout all times. And this also confirms my perception of sensitive humans who have gained the similar knowledge of this in all cultures, thus telling the very much same story of the similar deities and their symbols.

And as the poem clearly speaks: This telling is much more than a telling of planets, "the wandering stars" in the TBP regie.

Note:In a period of about 5 years back in 1979 I got some visions in spontaneous out-of-body experiences which left me wondering for a long time and it took about 12 years for me just to begin to grasp the contents - even as I had a clear sense of knowing when I experienced these.

For instants I got this written message in a dream: "The answer comes from the library" and the answer really came to me some times after when visiting our local library, where i notised an advertising poster from a book of the celestial imagery, showing the stars and the Milky Way contours on both hemispheres. I knew intuitively and immediately that this was the answer to something very important which mostly was forgotten.

In another vision I was floating over my native Island and watched the beginning of the morning light. But it was not the Sun which lits op the morning, but the stern of a shining golden ship - which I much later recognized in a Bronze Age Rock Art Ship figure on our local cliffs.

Well well well - and much more . . .

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

more than suggest that humans are able to gather knowledge and communicate with the creation as such. A human skill, which is ignored in the TBP way and method of thinking and interpreting the ancient myths.

God reveals Himself to whom He chooses, and endues them with knowledge."I will rain bread from heaven for you, and ye shall go out and gather a certain rate every day.""Give us this day our daily bread."

But the knowledge gained this way doesn't stand in the courts of men, I found.

Besides that, Velikovsky and Talbot et al are sharing the knowledge and revelations they gained using their skills.

Thoughts and comments anyone?

A scripture sprang to mind, while I was reading that."A wholesome tongue is a tree of life, but perversion therein is a breach in spirit."

Thank you for sharing the knowledge you gained using your human skill. ~Paul

The Parminede´s Poem - http://philoctetes.free.fr/parmenidesunicode.htm - so nicely linked by Grey Clod, thanks again more than suggest that humans are able to gather knowledge and communicate with the creation as such. A human skill, which is ignored in the TBP way and method of thinking and interpreting the ancient myths.

Of the cosmogony of Parmenides, which was carried out very much in detail, we possess only a few fragments and notices, which are difficult to understand, according to which, with an approach to the doctrines of the Pythagoreans, he conceived the spherical mundane system, surrounded by a circle of the pure light (Olympus, Uranus); in the centre of this mundane system the solid earth, and between the two the circle of the milkyway, of the morning or evening star, of the sun, the planets, and the moon; which circle he regarded as a mixture of the two primordial elements.

My Mythological understanding and perception of the creation is:

1. The numerous cultural Stories of Creation deals primary with the Milky Way.2. The central light of the Milky Way represents the First Light. (Not “the Sun”)3. The central bulged structure of the Milky Way represents the “Mount Olympus”.4. The entire Milky Way band around the Earth represent the (Winged) Cosmic Serpent – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros5. The two hemisphere white contours of the Milky Way represents the two secondary cultural deities of Light (Not the Sun) and “first humans” of both genders. In the TBP interpretations these two Milky Way figures are for instants interpreted as planet Saturn and the Sun on the northern hemisphere and as planet Venus – where the myth of the Mother Goddess Venus really belongs to the southern Milky Way hemisphere, observable in the night Sky from the "Underworld", the Earth southern hemisphere.6. On both hemispheres, a circle (often with 4 spokes) represents the Earth celestial axis.7. The “Tree of Life” stands in the creational center, Eden, the Milky Way center.8. Stars, star constellations, the Sun and Moon and the planets are daughters and sons of the central Milky Way Light, i.e. they all (we all) origin from the formation in the galactic center and have spread out from here.9. Thus, biblically spoken, everything is expelled out from the center of creation.

[...]

Thoughts and comments anyone?

For the lovers of the Poem of Parmenides:https://youtu.be/LDscj1jtuvs?t=1230It is a bit of an older performance with sometimes some loud music but it is still fair. The dialoguein this video before and after the poetical part gives perhaps a better insight into the philosophical problems touched by the Poem. And it goes a bit deeper, just as any true myth, than things seen by the eyes. So also Parmenides makes a distinction with Being that always is, and perpetual Becoming.Trying to find a start or beginning in of that which Is, is pointed out by Parmenides as going down the dangerous and winding paths of opinion.The wikipedia quote is perhaps just as well a bit beside the point and trying to fit a geocentric modelwith the cosmological thinking of today, missing the metaphorical language altogether.Here some more on Parmenides:The Eleatic School of Parmenides, Zeno and Melissushttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwH4KcspDmE

Another way of looking at some of astronomical/astrological verbiage of long ago can be seen here:Celestial Ascent in Myth and Culthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbGwH8HsHOc(The Macrobius part he mentions is actually from Porphyry quoted by Macrobius, i can give the specificpart here if needed.)This Lundwall guy has some other vids, that are quite interesting and treats these metaphoresa bit more to the intention of what these picturesque texts are talking about.

But of course I'm giving only my opinion here.

The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

Fibonacci sequence can be found in the Vedic scriptures, and fire brick designs.IMHO the geometry is of a fixed near solid universe of super conductive quality.What is flowing about upon that geometry is consciousness( plasma) chasing itself at all scale and creating compressions of memory We call matter and mass.This is evident at our scale, and by observing nature at all scale.Thus those most attuned to nature will have observed such and told the myths in whatever manner was theirs currently.Kevin

All of creation will be shell like based on twin spin principles, the endless variety been due to the geometry.The serpent description is merely to visualise the spin method of creation to those who only see via their eyes.

IMO the Turtle symbolism "only" illustrates the Milky Way and its cosmogony - and I reject the ideas of both a flat and a hollow Earth, as well as all talks of Aliens Aliens "exists" IMO only in the minds of people who cannot read the ancient symbolism. (The same problem with "planetary deities", really)

Regarding the Serpent description, it is for instants said in the Norse Mythology about the "Midgaard Serpent" that it encircles the Midgaard where humans live, i.e. the Earth. This fits very nicely with the Milky Way band, which can be observed in the night Sky in the darker periods of the seasons.

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Another way of looking at some of astronomical/astrological verbiage of long ago can be seen here:Celestial Ascent in Myth and Culthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbGwH8HsHOc(The Macrobius part he mentions is actually from Porphyry quoted by Macrobius, i can give the specificpart here if needed.)This Lundwall guy has some other vids, that are quite interesting and treats these metaphoresa bit more to the intention of what these picturesque texts are talking about.

But of course I'm giving only my opinion here.

Once again, as with the Grey Cloud linking, you too hit the head of the nail (or smack in the middle of my experiences and perceptions) with the linking to this John K. Lundwall video, thank you very much

I so sincerely would wish the EU proponents of mythological interpretation to watch this video and have a discussion of the contents on the proper and prime part of the Thunderbolts Forum. (What happend to the Mythological Department on the TBP?)

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.