HVAC-Talk site will be slow for the next few days. It's normal site/server maintenance. Thx -Dad

Welcome to HVAC-Talk.com, a non-DIY site and the ultimate Source for HVAC Information & Knowledge Sharing for the industry professional! Here you can join over 150,000 HVAC Professionals & enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to HVAC/R. You are currently viewing as a NON-REGISTERED guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register; for a free account. As a registered Guest you will be able to:

Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts.

Right-wing wacko 'muricans are too ignorant and arrogant to entertain the notion that someone somewhere outside of 'murica has a better idea. I think the US is the only industrialized nation left that does not have near universal coverage for it's citizens, whether it's through some government subsidized health insurance program, or a single payer system.
...........................

You are mistaken about us being arrogant & ignorant. There are a lot of intelligent & unarrogant people in America that truly believe any form of national health care would be disastrous. We've just been brain washed plain & simple. We believe the horror stories about people who can't get treated in Canada, the long waits to see a doctor etc.. We believe what the insurance companies & politicians have been feeding us for years. National health care ia a threat to our personal freedom. Yep, it's scary & we believe it all because we've been conditioned to think like that. We may be brain washed but we stand together & we fight for what we believe in.

Gary
-----------http://www.oceanhvac.com
An engineer designs what he would never work on.
A technician works on what he would never design.

My family health and dental insurace here in MA cost $2,150. a month, that's $25,800. a year, I also paid over $30,000. in income, property and excise taxes also.
Does that sound insane?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Good case in point. Do you really care much one way or another about obamacare? You are already paying 25K a year on insurance so I am not sure it will actually affect you one way or another. Of course, forcing consumers to buy a product may drive the cost up through the roof.

FWIW I personally have less to whine about obamacare on a level of personal affect, It is the principal of the thing.

A stated, it turns the IRS into a police force, sets legal precedent for any type of future government micro-managing our lives, it's simply not fair and it will not work well. If it were such a grand idea we would not have it in 2014, but today.

"You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

"I say we just nuke them from space, that is the only way to be sure". Winch from ALIENS2, forgot her name. The one with the great T-shirt in ALIENS1.

Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

isn't it a little late to start talking about this now?
every corrupt branch of our government has legalized this crime.
several months ago when you heard someone screaming from the mountain tops, ...that was me.

...and i got some more bad news for you, ROMNEY IS THE GUY WHO PASSED OBAMACARE IN MASSACHUSETTS!

My family health and dental insurace here in MA cost $2,150. a month, that's $25,800. a year, I also paid over $30,000. in income, property and excise taxes also.
Does that sound insane?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

All the more reason to show that nothing but national health care will work.
As long as you have insurance companies involved in any way in health care it can't work.
Medicare isn't perfect but it works. The gap that it doesn't cover is where all the problems are.
That's because insurance companies are still involved in the 20% gap. They charge more to cover 20% than the gov. charges for 80%. The argument about not wanting the gov. to control our health care just doesn't fly. The insurance co.s already control what doctors we can see, what treatments they cover etc.. With all the governments faults, at least they are trying to help out their citizens & not trying to make a profit off them. Do any of you honestly believe the insurance co.s are trying to do what is in any of our best interests?

Gary
-----------http://www.oceanhvac.com
An engineer designs what he would never work on.
A technician works on what he would never design.

Abolish health insurance companies. Universal Healthcare for all tax-paying US citizens, not just the old and poor. The system in the US is broken. Time to stop defending it, because it is indefensible. Health insurance companies need to go.

I'd be with you Garyed if it works out that way, but the way it is now in Massachusetts, is most likely what the rest of the country will experience.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Sad to say but you're probably right. Obamacare is a band aid over a wound that will not stop bleeding unless it is stitched up.
I don't know enough about the specifics to criticize the plan but I don't see how its going to do anything but drive up insurance rates.
Insurance co.s have to make a profit off health care or they wouldn't be in the health care business. You can make all the rules you want be it won't solve anything as long as they're around.

Gary
-----------http://www.oceanhvac.com
An engineer designs what he would never work on.
A technician works on what he would never design.

Right-wing wacko 'muricans are too ignorant and arrogant to entertain the notion that someone somewhere outside of 'murica has a better idea. I think the US is the only industrialized nation left that does not have near universal coverage for it's citizens, whether it's through some government subsidized health insurance program, or a single payer system.

Switzerland leads the world in technology and economic stability, has the Large Hadron Collider and universal healthcare for it's citizens. I'm not saying that they have a perfect society; they are just an example used for the purpose of contrast.

The US has stock car racing, iPhones, and a system of privatized profits and socialized losses, in which less than 60% of people have meaningful health coverage. The US government has also bamboozled 'muricans en masse to vehemently oppose the implementation of a system that would benefit the citizens instead of the profiteering health insurance companies who exist only to siphon value out of the system.

Rob I've tried to get into thoughtful back and forth debates with you and the other libz on this forum only for you guys to bail when my right wing intelligence starts to rocket past your own.

Asked for point by point rebuttals from you guys instead of ad hominem attacks on why your ideology is better than mine.

I've never gotten one thoughtful rebuttal or a response that closely mimicked anything thing of a substantial nature and honest value.

Your love of Switzerland is based on your assumption that they represent everything thing that is anti-America.

Here's but a few facts.....

Insurance in Switzerland is purchased by individuals and individuals must pay the full cost of health care premiums.

All insurance companies in Switzerland are Private although regulated by the government.

What the government does is subsidize the insurance so it doesn't not exceed 10% of you yearly income.

Supplemental insurance is available and up to 40% of Swiss citizens purchase it on top of the base insurance they have.

The Swiss do NOT have employer health care plans which forces Swiss citizens to purchase policies with high deductibles with out of pocket cost exceeding 30% FOR MOST Swiss Citizens.

The population in Switzerland is 8 million people.......8 million. I wonder how their health care system would fare when over run by millions of illegal invaders with no papers ??

Swiss and other European pay an extra tax called a VAT tax on top of every other tax. Right now its 8%.

Canada's VAT is 5% and is added to the sales tax. They call it the GST. Our European friends will extol the virtues of low taxes in their economies but fail to add every tax they pay.

Lets look at what the Germans pay in taxes. The socialist paradise of Germany....

A typical German citizen if you add income tax, " solidarity surcharge tax", tax on fuel and goods plus their VAT tax can be close to 70%.

People in France who earn a average wage take home around 50% of their wages and then they pay sales tax AND VAT tax on their purchases and then High taxes on fuel.

And for what ? Because these people are paying for a baby sitter basically and its not cheap.

So those in America whop see through the nanny state mentality have chosen to be self sufficient with as little government involvement as possible and that threatens those who depend on the safety net of their government to sleep soundly at night.

Rob I've tried to get into thoughtful back and forth debates with you and the other libz on this forum only for you guys to bail when my right wing intelligence starts to rocket past your own.

Asked for point by point rebuttals from you guys instead of ad hominem attacks on why your ideology is better than mine.

I've never gotten one thoughtful rebuttal or a response that closely mimicked anything thing of a substantial nature and honest value.

You are forgetting me now are you not?

Canada's VAT is 5% and is added to the sales tax. They call it the GST.

So when are you guys going to get on the consumption tax bandwagon? Much more fair than taxing different people at different rates, deductions going to some, how complicated is the normal tax form? With a consumption tax you can not complain about the other guy not paying taxes. Well he could get away with not paying it if he never spends the money, but what good does having money that you can not spend?

Lets look at what the Germans pay in taxes. The socialist paradise of Germany....

A typical German citizen if you add income tax, " solidarity surcharge tax", tax on fuel and goods plus their VAT tax can be close to 70%.

Should we take your word on this one?

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. Mark Twain