Talk:Torture, interrogation and intelligence

From WikiLeaks

Contents

First Impressions

first,
I am in the us military,
I am not an interrogator
I do work with propaganda.

However, and this is just me talking. Does sound a little odd to anyone else? The style seems inconsistent with other documents the military usually puts out as guidlines, blocks of instruction, manuals, etc.

The source has credibility from the camp delta SOP, this is true. But why mention the source by name, seems to be risky.

Also it seems a bit queer for a doctor to mis-spell sodium pentothal. Glenn 02:21, 21 December 2007 (GMT)

what happened to the responses to this? there was a discussion thread on here earlier, where is it?

oh never, mind, I was just accessing it wrong.

If it was part of an AMU course then why is there a disclaimer of sorts towards the end of the file.

Might this just be a personal rant? It really reads more like an Op-ed or blog entry.

-D

This is his lecture style. Read more closely, "as always you are" etc. Wikileaks 12:52, 23 December 2007 (GMT)

The distance learning idea makes sense, as it tells the reader how to pronounce some of the names of the chemicals he refers to - this suggests that some of it was added to or edited afterwards. Is it possible that the editing was done by someone other than the lecturer (ie. just changing "as you listen" to "as you read this")? That might explain the misspelling of Sodium Pentathal as "Pentathol" - it is a commonly made mistake.

Further support for this theory can be found in the style, which someone mentioned earlier - it seems to be a transcript of the lecture rather than the lecturer's own notes. Maybe it was transcribed and edited by someone other than Dr. Forness?

The meta data shows it came from forness computer. Really people, stop trying to find excuses for this nut. The document is exactly what it purports to be.

- I'm not trying to "find excuses for this nut". I'm trying to find excuses for a doctor using the wrong name for Sodium Pentathal. (28/2/08)

Overall, I'm inclined to trust Peryton based on recent successes, but I'm surprised AMU would send something like this - which appears to support torture - out as part of a distance learning course.

Scopolamine as an interrogation technique.

The amount of Scopolamine necessary is a minute amount. I am an ex U.S. Army Chemical Core officer and we handled the hazmat on this substance. With proper coercion the amount necessary is between 10 and 20 MG. This will cause a severe state of stupor and hallucinations. During this time however it is possible to interrogate the prisoner thoroughly due to the lack of there upper brain function during the time. The time the drug is most effective is between +2:30 hrs to +7:30 hrs.

Clearances

The part about security clearances is wrong, also. He left out 'confidential', and added the mythical-sounding 'beyond top-secret'. Top Secret is the highest level, however, it can be modified by being compartmentalized with code words, sort of like how he described. However, just because he has this wrong doesn't mean he doesn't hold a clearance...I've worked with many people who didn't understand their clearances or the entire system.
The section about General Pershing has never been corroborated with any historical source, nor does it match any of the known ways that Pershing dealt with the Moros. It is more than likely an urban legend.
I find the part about him executing pigs near prisonors interesting,also...how many live pigs were kept at Camp Delta for interrogation purposes? The effectiveness in determining whether or not someone is muslim just because they raise their feet to avoid pig's blood seems dubious, also. I'm not muslim, but I'd certainly raise my feet off of the ground to keep them from being covered in any sort of blood.
This whole speech/article/rant/whatever seems rife with errors. I have a hard time believing the veracity of any of it, let alone that it reflects some sort of official policy.

Whether its official policy or not, hard to say, AMU is teaching it to the military and hence, making it "unofficial policy".

Dr. Larry Forness

Has anyone actually talked to this guy to confirm this was his lecture?