The other evening I was browsing in my local video store looking for wholesome Christian content when I noticed a young couple slip into the store furtively, slipping from one section to the next whilst slipping each other lewd glances and giggling softly. Being the concerned person that I am I at first wondered if they were under the influence of the "demon weed," and considered alerting the staff so that the police could come along and arrest the miscreants. But then I tracked their path, and noticed where they were heading - a dark corner at the back of the store I hadn't noticed before, hidden as it was behind those sections dealing with violence and "fantasy." Curiously, I followed the couple as they meandered across the shop in a futile effort to avoid attention, until they paused at this section, their hot eyes wandering across the shelves as their limbs further entwined in a sybaritic display of lust.

By this point I had moved close enough to see what it was that had these lustful youths so excited. And imagine my shock and outrage when I discovered that these youths were looking at the most vile and degrading selection of videos I had ever had the misfortune to lay my eyes upon! Titles like "Little Anal Annie," "Hard Cocks vs. Tight Holes," "Naughty Nuns," "Cocks and Robbers" and even worse! That's right, they were looking at pornography!

Pornography is an immoral cancer which blights our so-called "modern" society. It has arisen since the spread of Liberalism amongst the more gullible elements of our society, and had spread thanks to the tireless actions of groups such as feminists, hippies and Democrats. Whereas once this depravity was confined to the the pit of festering corruption that is Europe, it can now be found in your local video store, waiting to corrupt the weak.

Pornography serves no purpose to society but to sate the unwholesome appetites of certain elements of the male population who, for whatever reason, cannot find themselves a woman to marry like God decreed for us all. Indeed, the kind of men that use that use pornography are remarkably easy to fit to a standard profile; they are typically aged between 20 and 40, white, lacking in social skills, ugly and possessing poor personal hygiene and are atheists and Liberals. So remember - if you see someone like this, they are almost certainly a "user" of pornography!

Pornography is degrading to both men and women. It encourages the myth that all men are interested in is looking at naked women and thinking about fornicating with them, a cruel lie which Satan has encouraged in modern society through the use of fronts like Britney Spears and other so-called "sex symbols," sluts whose lives unknowingly further the path of Evil. Indeed, the whole purpose of pornography is to encourage the sin of onanism, something which God-fearing Christians know to be wrong, as it directly goes against the word of the Lord. A true man has no need to look at glossy pictures of naked women, they are quite capable of finding themselves a real woman.

Women are exploited in these magazines with both the promise of money and the supposed "liberating" experiance of being photographed without any clothes on. These are lies from an industry filled with perverts of the highest order, people for whom Satan is a way of life. No amount of money can save a soul when it is bound in the chains of degredation, and the very word "liberation" testified to its corrupt roots in Liberal movement, Satan's frontline stormtroopers in the fight against Christianity.

It is a symptom of the moral decay of modern society that the pornography business has become so huge. The "erotic film" industry, which takes degradation to new extremes, makes over twice as much money as all of Hollywood does each year, and immeasurably more than than that made by wholesome Christian film companies producing spiritually enlightening and fufilling entertainment.

Since the rise of Liberalism in the last fifty years America has become a latter-day Sodom and Gomorrah filled with all kinds of foul perversions marketed by Satan's minions as being "healthy" and "natural". Only through the staunch support of decent Christian causes and a return to proper American values can we even begin to turn the tide of filth and restore America to the shining beacon of Light it once was.

Though it has been done before. Many times. So many, in fact, it mostly highlights your own obtuseness and provincial idiocy more than anything.

Next time, try a bit harder; you failed even to offend me. Stupid people, as a rule, are not offensive.

P.S. American vodka (like any other American food "product") is actually very low quality. In Europe, American food is seen as a refuge of the poor and maladjusted, because it is the cheapest way to stuff your stomach. You'll probably get severe hormonal deficiencies in the process, but the kind of people that buy American food in the first place would probably not care very much.

--Peace and much love...

Try posting sober next time (none / 0) (#14)

by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 28th, 2002 at 11:06:09 PM PST

Though it has been done before. Many times.

That would explain your inability to flatulate sonorously. But maybe you're bored (heh) with that particular activity and you'd prefer a right good squicking instead.

Next time, try a bit harder; you failed even to offend me.

And you just felt compelled to to tell me how unaffected you are. Yawn.

Stupid people, as a rule, are not offensive.

Stupid people also are incapable of recognizing when they've been offended. Obvious Guy says you're two for two.

P.S. American vodka (like any other American food "product") is actually very low quality.

Now that's rich. American products are the only quality products, period. You choad-munching fuckwit ex-Commies wouldn't recognise quality if it ran over you in a Trabant.

Is that all you got? I thought you were one of the premiere flamers on this overrated blog. You wouldn't last five minutes in alt.peeves.

jvance

d00d, (5.00 / 1) (#16)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 12:50:24 AM PST

I dunno who that "jvance" is, but whoever he is, he's gonna kick your dork ass once he finds out you've been stealing his identity to do some half-witted crapflooding.

This "trolling" you mention is new to me. Is it some distasteful form of rhetoric peculiar to inter-net discussions? Perhaps that's why half of my comments to this forum have been deleted. If someone would kindly explain to me the subtleties of this "trolling" and in particular my trespasses, I will endeavour, truly I will, to mend my errant ways.--
Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

you god people always point fingers at atheists and presume that they are all sinners. thats what makes you theists so narrow minded and annoying that i am proud to be an open minded secular humanist, whos not a liberal!

Atheists are sinners by definition. God's very first commandment was that you believe in him and no other. He asks this simple thing of you, through his Book and his followers, and you refuse. This is your sin, and it is why many god-fearing Americans dislike atheists. Indeed, atheism requires more faith than theism--you must both believe what you are told blindly and refuse to believe the obvious facts present in the Bible.

"YOUR GOD?" (none / 0) (#10)

by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 28th, 2002 at 05:25:34 PM PST

in your definition i am a sinner. incase you havent noticed there are other religions in this world, and i see no reason why your religion is the correct one. in fact, your lack of support for the basis of your religion makes me laugh.

You are so solidly convinced of your convictions that you are able to resist the pressure to tell a lie. Of course, as an athiest you can allow yourself to commit to all manner of sinful and indecent acts because you don't believe there will be any consequences, but by all means, pat yourself on the back for not telling a lie. Why you don't I have no idea, as there are certainly will be np rice to pay as far as you are concerned. Why not just take the easy road like you do with everything else and just do whatever makes you feel good?

As you can tell, it requires much more resolve to actually live a virtuous life in service of God than to live like a savage. God wants you to resist temptations of the flesh, worship only Him, love thy neighbor, don't kill anyone, spread the gospel. He puts all kinds of requirements on a person. Living as a Christian is difficult, even without all of the persecution we face. We do it because we know that there is a reward awaiting us in heaven. We also know that serving God is what makes men of boys, and women of girls. It stays the ravages of liberalism, as it is impossible to be both a good Christian and a liberal. Belief in God accomplished a great many things.

So congratulations on your triumph. While you athiests have accomplished next to nothing, we Christians have saved mankind many times over.

Atheism has given humankind the wonderfully Marxist dialectic materialism.

--Peace and much love...

I have but one thing to say... (none / 0) (#35)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 01:45:27 PM PST

And it's nothing I personally ever said, but a quote I find most relevant to the 'debate' at hand:

Yattering55: christianity = killed more people than the nazis

arrogence... (none / 0) (#36)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 02:05:49 PM PST

you know, all you christians have done is prevert your religion, force it on others, and attempted a genocide. if thats your "accomplishments" then hats off to you. as for us atheists, we are more open minded to the world, resulting in many scientists who have done so much for this world. so stop believing you are superior to others and learn to accept brotherhood with all peoples of this world.

How have the Christians "preverted" their religion? And to what "genocide" would you be referring, good sir? If you mention the Holocaust, by the way, I won't even dignify it with a reply.

So all scientists are atheists, huh? Tell that to Newton, Einstein and Fermi, among others. Why don't you stop believing that you are superior to Christians? And while you're at it, why not stop spouting the inane platitudes? They're smug, self-righteous and mean absolute squat.

response (none / 0) (#48)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 05:35:41 PM PST

I said many scientists, and the genocide i am referring to are the crusades. with all the christian hate crimes that go on around the world, "jesus" would feel like he failed in his quest to save mankind. but of course since all your sins are forgiven you can go out an commit any hate crime you like, as long as its in the name of christ.

As opposed to Muslim, Hindu, atheist, Jewish, and Buddhist hate crimes? Your problem isn't that Christians are evil, it's that they have an impact on your sacred, sovereign right to free action.

"jesus" would feel like he failed in his quest to save mankind

You don't much like the Lord Jesus either, do you? What'd He ever do to you?

One thing I'll agree is that Christians must try harder to fight the evil inside of themselves. Unlike liberalists, Christians know this is a victory that must perpetually be fought, won, and lost in every individual human heart. People have and will always have the potential for evil. The Lord did not seek, through His Incarnation, to take away our inviolable free will.

The point of the Incarnation wasn't to end human strife forever. That is the point of the Apocalypse. The point of the Incarnation was to make possible fellowship between the Absolute, which is God, and sinners, which is mankind. The Incarnation was no trivial quest, but the historical event that defined and justified history. Through it, we were made capable of accepting the Love of God.

Sorry for all the "God talk;" I know it'll make the post almost unreadable to you, because you are a liberalist fanatic who finds it totally unbearable. Try and get past the "dirty words" to understand what I'm talking about.

All the best,Nathan--Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Re: (none / 0) (#50)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 09:16:43 PM PST

when i said jesus would be disappointed, how do you get the feeling that i hate your savior? that has no implication that i hate him, just that he would be disappointed with many, many of you christians.

also, i was singling out christianity because one of the first to relpy to me was using his christian religious views against me, no doubt that there are tons of other hate crimes caused by religions, thats why i feel religion is becoming a problem in the world.

I don't believe I was using my Christian religious views 'against' you, I was merely pointing out that, as an athiest, you really don't have any motivation for doing something that you seem to take great pride in. If there are no consequences for your actions, why does it matter whether or not you admit to the existence of God? I mean, you've convinced yourself that there is no God despite considerable evidence to the contrary because you want free reign to do whatever you feel like doing. Just act like you really do believe in God and then go about your everyday blasphemous life. It would be a right funny joke, up until you meet Him face to face and He sends you to hell for eternity.

Don't confuse my espousing my Christian values as 'using them against you'. I can't help that you are wrong and that I live a better life than you. You made you own choices.

-------------------------"Keep your bible open and your powder dry."

Atheist morality (none / 0) (#78)

by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 31st, 2002 at 06:23:56 PM PST

"If there are no consequences for your actions, why does it matter whether or not you admit to the existence of God?"

But there are always consequences to any action. Think about it. Anything you do affects other people, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. The desire to treat other people as you would like to be treated -- the Golden Rule -- is a perfectly good basis for morality whether a God exists or not. There may be no consequences in the long run, but to quote Keynes, "In the long run, we are all dead."

In fact, atheists don't rely on fear of eternal torture and the lure of eternal bliss to behave morally. They don't look forward to the sadistic pleasure of watching those they dislike burn for eternity. Isn't it more "moral" to behave correctly for its own sake rather than out of fear?

I have and it isn't really too difficult a concept to grasp. The bible, a rather simple book, explains it all wonderfully and negates the need to spend countless hours mulling over the ins and outs of morality.

-- the Golden Rule -- is a perfectly good basis for morality

Good call, there may be hope for you yet.

whether a God exists or not

Not just a god, but God, exists. The one and only. Again I find myself engaged in debate over a very simple matter. God exists, there is ample evidence to prove it (read Genesis 1:1), only ignorant savages believe otherwise.

In fact, atheists don't rely on fear of eternal torture and the lure of eternal bliss to behave morally.

Well, they don't often behave morally so it doesn't suprise me that they have little motivation to do so.

They don't look forward to the sadistic pleasure of watching those they dislike burn for eternity

Nor do I, thats why I'm trying to explain all of this God business to you. I'd really rather you get on the right path and save yourself.

Isn't it more "moral" to behave correctly for its own sake rather than out of fear?

No, because behaving morally goes against human nature. Those other people out there, they want to eat your children. They want to get drunk and engage in pre-marital sex. They just love to swear and take drugs and lie to each other. It isn't their natural inclination to abstain from all those things, it is the fear of God that does it. Stop kidding yourself. And you still haven't demonstrated any consequences for falsely admitting that you believe in God, particularly as they might exist if your fantasy world where there is no God were reality.

-------------------------"Keep your bible open and your powder dry."

Belated reply (1.00 / 1) (#103)

by Anonymous Reader on Sat Feb 9th, 2002 at 06:54:28 PM PST

I have and it isn't really too difficult a concept to grasp. The bible, a rather simple book, explains it all wonderfully and negates the need to spend countless hours mulling over the ins and outs of morality.

So you believe it's a sin to boil goats in their mothers' milk? It's all right to punish innocent babes for their fathers' sins? Biblical morality can be interesting; it's not a field I know well but what I know is discouraging.

Not just a god, but God, exists. The one and only. Again I find myself engaged in debate over a very simple matter. God exists, there is ample evidence to prove it (read Genesis 1:1), only ignorant savages believe otherwise.

Unfortunately, your evidence is of two types. Evidence for a creator could be used to support any kind of postulated supernatural entity, from Yahweh to Ormuzd to the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I haven't seen any evidence for Yahweh specifically; do you have any besides the Bible?

Well, they don't often behave morally so it doesn't suprise me that they have little motivation to do so.

Proof?

Nor do I, thats why I'm trying to explain all of this God business to you. I'd really rather you get on the right path and save yourself.

A) Prove Yahweh's existence.
B) Prove why I should worship a deity whose morals would make Lina or Xellos blush.

No, because behaving morally goes against human nature. Those other people out there, they want to eat your children.

They want to get drunk and engage in pre-marital sex. They just love to swear and take drugs and lie to each other.

A) Swearing is immoral?
B) Drinking, drugs, and fornication aren't good for anyone, but atheists don't have a monopoly on immorality. Moonshining and fundamentalists share a lot of territory, and a lot of abortionist business is generated by the religious.
C) I don't tell lies just for the love of telling them. Lies are only for purposes of personal utility, as I'm sure you know well.

It isn't their natural inclination to abstain from all those things, it is the fear of God that does it.

Explain why I, no fearer of God, rarely swear or lie and have never done any of the other immoral activities on your list.

Stop kidding yourself.

Au contraire, you are the one lost in self-delusion. You still haven't acknowledged that a morality not built on fear of supernatural terrors can work, when there is living proof that it can. I'm not arguing that all atheists are more moral than Christians. I'm not arguing that there aren't immoral atheists. I'm just saying that morality isn't exclusive to Christians.

And you still haven't demonstrated any consequences for falsely admitting that you believe in God, particularly as they might exist if your fantasy world where there is no God were reality.

The usual consequences of belief in God are nothing more than wasting time in church, but in cases like yours they include being a general nuisance to the public, wasting large amounts of time and indignation protesting human nature, and possibly willful self-deceit. Not to mention holding back the progress of human knowledge and eventually, on the far end of the scale, creating countries like Afghanistan and going on killing sprees because of religious ideology.

I'm not a Christian. Technically, I'm Jewish but being of more scientific nature in my own head I'm agnostic. I don't know whether God exists or not, if given absolute accurate and true proof either way I wouldn't try to disprove it. I'm not here to try and stop people believing one way or the other about the existence of God, I just think it doesn't matter what each and every person thinks. If a person does or doesn't believe in God then that's their prerogative. If they believe in a different God or gods, then that's also their prerogative. I don't care. I just wish other people wouldn't get so worked up about their beliefs that they think they are absolutely correct and refuse to accept the possibility that they may not be.

The truth is, we have no real way of knowing whether God exists, but scientific evidence points to non-existence. Many biblical events have been successfully linked to mundane earthly phenomena, but this still doesn't prove the non-existence of God. Just like the writings in the Bible don't constitute proof of the existence of God.

Jesus (none / 0) (#63)

by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 30th, 2002 at 03:06:05 PM PST

Jesus died on the cross for our sins, therefore, if we ask, we are forgiven. So if you are going to make comments regarding christianity, I would first suggest going to your local christian bookstore or library and picking up a copy of the bible. Obviously, if you are *so* well versed in the workings of Christianity and the ways of God, then you would know this, and we would not be having this discussion. Period.

I know that (none / 0) (#65)

by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 30th, 2002 at 04:27:59 PM PST

i do know that... but what i dont understand, is how does him dying save us all????

Because that brings us back into communion with God. Before Christ, people worshipped rocks, trees, stormclouds, painted themselves blue and howled at the moon. After Christ, (some) people worship God, the ultimate creator of the universe.

I never understood exactly what this phrase
is supposed to mean. Jesus died for our sins.
Is it similar to "I went down the pub for a
beer"? If so then Jesus died in order that
we can sin, correct? Wouldn't it then be a
shame to waste his effort and not take advantage
of all the sin he's enabled us to have?

Strange. If that's even remotely true then I'm
even more convinced that it's not Jesus I have
any kind of problem with, it's his Fan Club.

"Jesus died for our sins" means that, in order that human beings could come into fellowship with the Omnipotent, Absolute Creator of the Universe, He became fully human and took upon Himself the sins of all human beings, that we might choose of our own freed will to love God and our fellow man.

You know, Christians have gotten as good as they've given. What is it about Christians exercising political power that exercises you so badly? It's not clear to me that Muslims like the Fatimid dynasty, pagans like the marvellous Alexander, atheists like Stalin, or Hindus like the BJP are intrinsically any more peaceable.

How are atheists following blindly? Its the other way around. You only believe in God because your parents told you to.

And What facts are in the Bible? It's a bunch of myths and parable's that make little reference to historical events.It's been written by HUMAN hands for centuries, making it completely open for change.
Though I do believe the Bible teaches good morals and ethics, I believe it was only written for that purpose (by humans of course :-).

The reasons for religon:
1)To establish Laws and Ethics
How else would you get a bunch of ignorant
people to behave? You get the local wise man
(or parents)to say "There's a ever-present all-
seeing being(s) that see when you break the
rules, and if you don't behave He/She/It/They
will make your life miserable"

2) To explain the unexplainable
When man first realized his own existence, he
thought,"My tools exist because I created
them,so things must be created before they
exist. So,who made me? Things didnt appear out
of nowhere". Thus, the notion of god(s)and
religon was created.

3) there's probably hundred's of other reason,
but i'm too tired

Lemme recommend that you read the book/play/movie Inherit the Wind.

Atheists are dumb because... (none / 0) (#53)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 11:15:49 PM PST

They take all the unknowns that religion explains and replace the word "God" with the word "science". Be an agnostic. Have the balls to say "I don't know."

Agnostic? Ballsy? (none / 0) (#64)

by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 30th, 2002 at 03:15:29 PM PST

What a load of shit. People with courage either choose a religion, and accept its strictures, or reject any notion of god, and face the considerable task of constructing a conistent moral and social outlook on their own.

Agnosticism is for people who want to avoid the ancient questions addressed by religion entirely. What is right? How should I live? By what standard will I judge others, and myself?

Well, gee, an agnostic can't possibly know any of that stuff, so there's no need to worry about it, right? It's the biggest cop-out ever imagined.

[Atheists] reject any notion of god, and face the considerable task of constructing a conistent moral and social outlook on their own.

I dispute your conflation of the two. Religion needn't be something you accept to replace your free mind. What exactly did Sts Augustine, Jerome, Anselm, Thomas Aquinas, and Teresa of Avila "accept" that led them to write off their own intelligence, intellectual freedom, and moral free will.--Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Though I do believe the Bible teaches good morals and ethics, I believe it was only written for that purpose (by humans of course)

Good for you. Why does this opinion carry any weight at all? Show that I shouldn't just consider it an unreasoned prejudice. And if you don't like the Bible, as such, why not do some thinking about the problem of free will in a mechanistic universe?

Lemme recommend that you read the book/play/movie Inherit the Wind

Read it, hated it. Not a single sympathetic character, including the "hero." Its nasty shots at W J Bryan don't do a thing for its credibility, and the characters are cardboard. I'd rather suffer through Our Town again.

According to St Paul, all human beings are sinners - atheists, Christians, everyone.

On the other hand, the vainglorious atheist belief that a person can be responsible for his own existence does lead to problems. You may claim to be a humanist, but what is the souce of your humanism? If people aren't ends in themselves, who cares about people?

sin is not something that is tangible or demonstrable, it is part of CHRISTIAN tradition, this by the way is the same tradition that made old pauly a "saint" (and why should we listen to him anyway, what makes him any kind of authority?) if you are not a christian you cannot sin, period. if you are a christian there are many things you cannot do, i.e. don't say this, don't stick your penis here, don't wear clothes made from this fiber or that, ect. ect. ect. but these rules do not apply to non christians because they are not bound by the mythology do you understand. now you can go around and point at people and shout "sinner sinner sinner, satan's main course for dinner" or something like that but that is your opinion.

now here is an example, let's say i am crazy and i believe that people who walk forwards are guilty of some concept, let's call it BLARGH. now i could walk around backwards all day and pass out tracts telling people about the evils of forward walking, i could picket the funerals of forward walkers and i could write letters to the editor telling people to stop blarghing. but at the end of the day you see it is only i that am bound to not blargh because it is my ideology. the fact that people believe that sin comes from some space god is irellevant, i could believe that blargh comes from some space god too and that doesn't give it any more credence except for in my own mind. so if you want to live your life by the restrictive goat-age rules in the bible that is your choice but you need to realize that those who have moved past it are no longer bound by them.

I don't have time to wade through your dysfunctional punctuation, but, briefly, I believe that you have confused judaism and Christianity. Typical of those that read one book of the Old Testament and thought that that is all there is of Christianity.

--Peace and much love...

what a clever way (none / 0) (#92)

by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 1st, 2002 at 10:56:36 AM PST

to completely avoid having to address any of the points i made. you lash out with hatred at me because i used an example from the old testament which i guess most christians today find embarassing, and then you completely ignore the rest of it. okay, let's substitute the clothes with mixed-fibers thing to sex out of wedlock. i assume christianity still frowns on that. now are you willing to addess any of this, or will you scamper away with your tail in between your legs? i recommend the latter.

people who are not christians are not capable of sin. christians may believe otherwise, but that is their problem, not mine. if you are going to point fingers at people who do things you don't like and call them sinners even if they are not christians, do you have the sack to do the same thing to yourself when you do things that other religions prohibit? to use the other example, do you feel guilty when you eat ham because judiasm prohibits it? what's that you say? there's no reason to feel guilty because you are not a judiast and the rule doesn't apply to you? fucking a, chief. now you've got it, don't you.

so if you want to live your life by the restrictive goat-age rules in the bible that is your choice but you need to realize that those who have moved past it are no longer bound by them.

Oh, you mean rules like 'Don't kill' or 'Don't steal'? Don't be so sure that your 'advanced' existence is superior, buddy.

you don't get it (none / 0) (#87)

by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 1st, 2002 at 08:16:27 AM PST

this is just silly, it is not just christian mythology that says "don't kill" and "don't steal", it is also THE LAW. there are laws against doing these things. there are not laws against other christian sins such as taking the name of the lord in vain. if you do not understand this let me know and i can expand a bit. but this is all besides the point.

i never said that some of the things that christian mythology calls "sin" were okay, such as murder, ect. we all agree that murder is wrong. but the whole "sin" concept goes beyond saying that it is wrong to do, it also says things about torture and hell, and about saviors and things. it is this that is part of christian mythology and it is this that does not apply to non-christians. here is a hint, and you may want to sit down for this: you do not have to believe in a malevolent torturing space god in order to know that killing people is wrong and that you should not do it. the fact that so many people require this sort of invented reinforcement to keep them from going off on murderous sprees is thoroughly depressing. now i admit that it is better than the alternative, as the father of two i believe that if fear of a god will keep the christians from harming my family, then so be it. i just wish society could grow up a bit.

so we have established that people are able to discern the obvious rules of decent society (no killing, stealing, ect.) without the help of supernatural spooks or concepts like sin. what remains are things like sex out of wedlock and other things that don't harm anybody but christians consider to be "sin". okay, here's the deal, if you don't like those things then don't do them. but you can't go around calling people who do them "sinners" if those people are not christian. now if the person doing these things is a professed christian and a regular churchgoer then it would be okay to play the sinner card. but you are talking about artificial constraints that you have voluntarily placed on your life and here is the point: people who choose not to partipate in your (or any) particular mythology are not constrained by the rules of it.

let's say that you are a christian and go on lunch break. you stop at the deli and see a mouth watering ham sandwich. so you eat it. now you know that eating pork is a jewish sin. but you're not a jew. so what do you do? do you run to the nearest church and enter the confessional and say "thank you father, for i have sinned, i ate a ham sandwich?" of COURSE you don't, because you do not subscribe to that mythology, and you are not obligated to follow its rules? you would think me a fool for calling you a "sinner" for committing some other religion's sins. but that is exactly what you are doing when you point fingers at people you don't like and call THEM "sinners." all clear?

You have totally failed to understand Judaism. Eating the flesh of an unclean animal is considered, by Orthodox Jews, to be sinful, for Jews (exempting extenuating circumstances; for instance, in order to save a life, you can kasher 'unclean' things in an emergency.) In other words, Jews don't care if anybody else eats pork.

I mean, I'm at a loss. You are totally ignorant about religion, but you are so arrogant and vainglorious that you think you can condescend to religious people? What a stroppy little runt you are. It's as stupid as when the Southern Baptists go after the 'secular humanist conspiracy.'

you hit the nail right on the head! it is a sin for JEWS to eat pork, not everybody else. so basically you are invalidating what you originally said, which was that "everybody is a sinner." if you mean what you said about the jews then you are at least tacitly acknowledging that this is wrong. now if you said "all christians are sinners" then that would be closer to the mark. but when you consider things that christians consider to be sins such as premarital sex, people who engage in these things but are not christians are not sinners because they are not bound by that particular mythology. just like you are not prohibited from eating prok because you're not a jew. actually i think you make my point better than i am equipped to do. a person is only capable of "sin" if he or she is part of a system of beliefs that assigns a particular meaning to that word. beyond that, it's all good.

by the way i am not being arrogant, just speaking the truth. if anything it is you that is being arrogant, what with all of the overuse of the word "vainglorious." isn't pride a sin? for me it doesn't matter, but for you it might be a whole different ball of wax.

...the truth for yourself. After all, it's all relative, and you can define stuff out of existence.

Doing something sinful is not the same thing as "sinning" (an overused word.) This is the sort of religious illiteracy that makes you unable to follow what I'm saying. If there exists objective right and wrong, then there is such a thing as doing wrong, even if you use a different word for it. If there is such a thing as objective right and wrong, there must also be some absolute source for the distinction (if it were only convention or social conditioning, then right and wrong wouldn't be objective.)

Get it through your head. This applies to all mature religions (ie, those that do more than just worship bulls and thunder,[1]) and the root of all serious religious thought is the idea of the Absolute. Christianity is not "mythology," it is serious philosophical inquiry into the nature of the Creator of the universe and into the good and the right for man within creation.

[1] I don't mean to condescend to paganism, actually. I think that the primitives also had an idea of the Absolute, but it would be wrong for us, today, to adopt our misunderstandings of their ideas.

I fail to see how calling the Supreme Being a "malevolent torturing space god," and assuming that without the concept of sin, Christians would want to kill your children isn't at the very least obnoxious and disrespectful, and at the worst, arrogant and vainglorious. Yes, I used that word again on purpose. You might want to go look up the concept of pride in a Christian theology book. I think you'll be surprised.

And before you assume I'm Christian, don't. I just have respect for that religion and its beliefs, which is more than you have.

Well (none / 0) (#17)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 12:54:01 AM PST

First off..I want to say that was stupid of them.. Who goes to the video store to get porn. For the best in hard-core porn you got to buy it online. American porn is okay, but the European sh@t is where it is at. Nothing like watching 2 hairy french chicks eating each others a-hole. Ya... Now I got to go to the bathroom real quick...Be back later..STicky fingers and all..

"Pornography ... encourages the myth that all men are interested in is looking at naked women"
This argument is flawed. It is based on the false premise that if some people like doing something, then *everyone* must like doing it.

It is like saying "the existence of marijuana encourages the myth that everybody likes to abuse drugs".

"Pornography ... encourages the myth that all men are interested in is looking at naked women"This argument is flawed. It is based on the false premise that if some people like doing something, then *everyone* must like doing it.

Not only is the argument flawed, it is also incorrect. All men are only interested in looking at naked women.

A 'gay' is not a real man. Nor is he 'happy'.

Yeah! (none / 0) (#34)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 01:32:58 PM PST

Cause some men like to look at naked men.

Hacking's dirty little secret (4.00 / 1) (#21)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 01:34:11 AM PST

It is a well known fact that "hacking" is in reality a very boring activity, requiring that many hours be spent poring over technical manuals and engaging in simpleminded, repetitive tasks.

It is an equally well known fact that there is one, and only one, reason why "1337 kidd33z" bother to engage in this dull task, using their "crax0r skriptz" to "comprox0rmise" a "servx0r", and that is to get at hidden stashes of pornography, or "pr0n".

It is yet another well known fact that *NIX operating systems, which comprise the backbone of the internet, utilise vast amounts of erotically charged terminology, such as "root", "mount", "fsck", and "cockgoblin". These systems are developed and used almost exclusively by sexually frustrated males, the type of people who compulsively accumulate large stashes of pornographic image and movie files on their computers: the existence of these gold mines of wank fodder drives the hackers on, and the cycle perpetuates itself.

Were it not for the terabytes' worth of pornography hidden away on "hard drives" all over the internet, 99% of hacker activity would halt, and the milions of young people currently wasting their lives breaking into computer systems would instead be outdoors, playing ball, hiking, swimming, singing patriotic songs, and engaging in the kind of rough-and-tumble sexual experimentation that made this nation great.

There can be no disputing the need for Government Authorities to use their own versions of these "hax0ring t00lz" (Carnivore, Microsoft Passport, etc.) as a force for good instead of evil, to seek out and eliminate stashes of pornography hidden on computers all over the internet. A little privacy is a small price to pay for the future of our nation's youth.

Narrow minded (none / 0) (#24)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 05:29:32 AM PST

Just a note to say I had read your article and had to read it twice to check that it was "For Real", I didnt realise that there will still people who had such stereotypical views on pornography and its users. As for your views on Europe, have you ever been there? If you want a "pit of festering corruption" I suggest you look no further than your doorstep.

...if you gaze for long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into
you.

Friedrich Nietsche, Beyond Good and Evil

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

Hilarious (none / 0) (#30)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 09:29:41 AM PST

This one is hilarious - I mean, it IS a parody, isn't it?

Seriously, though, about pornography - I don't think it is anything to get excited about in any way, morally or otherwise. I used to check it out from time to time when I got bored, but it's always a disappointment. I suppose there's nothing really surprising in this - after all it is normally exceptionally bad acting and very, very shallow stories; and the supposedly 'sexually explicit' content mostly amounts to silly posturing and revelling in playing 'naughty'.

Tell me one thing, though - why on earth is it wrong to look at naked bodies? And perhaps even feel sexually aroused? Having read the Bible several times, I can't recall anywhere it says that sexuality is 'bad'. Apart from that - why care about what the Bible says? We aren't all Christians, and even amongst those that are, a lot of people find it more immoral to be judgmental and prejudiced than to feel lust.

Why do you think porn is boring? Maybe because it 'mechanizes' the act of intercourse by divorcing it from its intended context?

This in itself is degrading enough to the amazing concept of being a human being, even without all the bizarre acts people (mostly women) are forced to perform in porn movies. Many porn stars must think so too, because a sobering number of them end up committing suicide.

nc (none / 0) (#31)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 09:33:54 AM PST

mind your own business man...

true that (none / 0) (#46)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 05:27:51 PM PST

mind your own business man...

Of all the athiest vs. god-fearing aruments on this board, this one liner really is the best.

OK, you don't like porn. And you do like Jesus. Thats cool and all, but why do you gotta push it on other people?

Porn stars aren't out trying to get churches shut down; why do you gotta fuck with their livelihood? My guess: The chick in the store was really really hot, and you're just jealous that you won't be the one banging her while watching that porn movie. THAT, my friend, is a far more likely "subliminal thought" than the subliminal guilt above posters have claimed athiests must feel.

I understand the nature of adequacy.org but sites like http://chick.com and http://capalert.com they are serious???? I find it hard to believe that they are so narrow minded and not making a joke, like adequacy.org

It is people like you, Mr. Jon Erikson, who are what is wrong with the US. You try to push your prehistoric moral values on society, and you have no respect for the beliefs of others. Many of us don't share your views! Pornography has a great tradition in our country, and I suggest you research the topic more before writing another article.

You might also want to examine closely how your views match those of the Taliban: the Taliban also hated homosexuality, nudity, recreation drug use, and women's rights. Do you want USia to become another Afghanistan??? I sure hope not!

BTW, I urge all Adequacy readers to visit the FreeNet home page. They are developing software to combat the fascist ideologies of people like Jon Erikson!

--Revolution from Below! GPL the Constitution!

Taliban (none / 0) (#54)

by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jan 29th, 2002 at 11:36:41 PM PST

Before this "war" had you heard of the Taliban? Could you point out Afghanistan on an unlabelled map? Can you do it today for that matter?

All you know of these people is what CNN tells you. They have become the Nazis of our time. At least people saw the Nazi's atrocities through their own eyes instead of on a heavily edited news clip.

While I don't particually appreciate what they did to our country (if they did anything to our country) I could care less about their views on drugs, fags, fashion, and women's rights.

If you are trying to have an argument with someone please have the decency to make it an intelligent one. We lurkers need to be entertained.

It is people like you, Mr. Jon Erikson, who are what is wrong with the US.

Wrong as in "doesn't conform to libberish nonsense" indeed.

You try to push your prehistoric moral values on society, and you have no respect for the beliefs of others.

I have no respect for the beliefs of Liberals like yourself, because Liberals are Godless heathens intent on the damnation of America!

Many of us don't share your views!

Which is why I am writing this article, in the hope of turning some of you away from the downwards spiral of pornography, Liberalism and eternal damnation in Hell.

You might also want to examine closely how your views match those of the Taliban: the Taliban also hated homosexuality, nudity, recreation drug use, and women's rights. Do you want USia to become another Afghanistan??? I sure hope not!

While the Taliban were heathens and deserved the Crusade which America gave them, they certainly weren't Liberals. If only Americans were that pious we wouldn't be in the situation we are today.

BTW, I urge all Adequacy readers to visit the FreeNet home page. They are developing software to combat the fascist ideologies of people like Jon Erikson!

FreeNet is nothing more than another Communistic attempt at overriding the laws of society and instituting an atheistic state ruled by Red Liberals marching in step. No God-fearing Christian would have anything to do with it.

I have no respect for the beliefs of Liberals like yourself, because Liberals are Godless heathens intent on the damnation of America!

If you really believe this, then it is time for you to take some sensitivity training. You have to understand that a left-wing person's beliefs are just as valid and respectable as your own... if it weren't for liberals then you would be working in a coal mine 18 hours a day, your drinking water would be full of pollution, and slavery would be commonplace.

Which is why I am writing this article, in the hope of turning some of you away from the downwards spiral of pornography, Liberalism and eternal damnation in Hell.

Pornography helped me to unlock my inner child, and removed my inhibitions. As a result I am a happier person. BTW, everyone knows that Hell is where the fun is.

While the Taliban were heathens and deserved the Crusade which America gave them, they certainly weren't Liberals. If only Americans were that pious we wouldn't be in the situation we are today.

Yup. You sound just like those Christian fundamentalists who send anthrax to people and blow up government buildings. You probably would like to shoot abortion doctors too! I think it is time the American people face the facts: Religion causes terrorism!

FreeNet is nothing more than another Communistic attempt at overriding the laws of society and instituting an atheistic state ruled by Red Liberals marching in step. No God-fearing Christian would have anything to do with it.

Wrong. FreeNet is designed to allow oppressed minorities to exchange beastiality and pedophilia pictures, along with other anti-fascist materials. You may have heard of Free Speech? FreeNet is it's greatest expression! It is Free Speech which protects us from government tyranny. I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want the FBI monitoring what I download!

You might also want to examine closely how your internet use matches that of the Taliban: the Taliban also used Freenet, Linux, PGP, and Open Source. Do you want The Internet to become another Afghanistan??? I sure hope not!

Re:FreeNet (none / 0) (#80)

by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 31st, 2002 at 08:59:25 PM PST

I congratulate you, sir or madam, on your excellent piece of trolling.

Bah (none / 0) (#66)

by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 30th, 2002 at 04:29:46 PM PST

This site is getting too much, you are overdoing everything. Only a moron would believe this to be real.

Did you have something to say, or only exercising your cramped fingers?

--Peace and much love...

OH MY FUCKING GOD NOT PORN! (none / 0) (#70)

by Anonymous Reader on Thu Jan 31st, 2002 at 04:03:19 AM PST

<B>OH NO! OH GOD NO! NOT PORN! NOT JIZZ IN YOUR MOUTH ALL OVER YOUR FACE GOOD ANAL PASSION FOR 3 FULL NON-STOP HOURS OF INTERACIAL 14 INCH COCK PORN! WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO! WHERE ARE MY OMISH BROTHERS SO WE CAN DAMN THESE PEOPLE TO ETERNAL HELL FOR ALL OUR BOUNTIFUL CROP OF MIDGET ASIANS SUCKING BESTIAL 2 FOOT LOCK ELEPHANT COCK PORN.

you people are fucking stupid, because the fact you post such stupidity, you deserve to be told the truth. thank god for the first amendment.

Well, welcome to the real world of responsibility. This is what happens when you leave your parent's basement. The light of truth hurts the eyes, especially for troglodytes who are used to feasting on stale water and blind fish.

I guess my point didn't get through last time I replied to one of these self righteous rants (the one about the "evil" anime, if I recall).

I don't honestly see why you can't leave people alone to do their thing. If something bothers you, ignore it. I do. Except this sort of post, of course, this is just too much.

Oh, and I don't see what you have against cannabis either. It's no worse really than the legal drugs alcohol, nicotine and caffiene. At least, not in my moderate experience. A joint now and again hasn't done me any harm. Although I'd guess you'll reply that it has, because I dare not to agree totally with you.

"Leave me alone! It doesn't matter what I do in the privacy of my own home! If I want to rape small children, it's none of your business!"

You sir, are exactly the kind of filthmonger I am talking about! You cry out whenever your dishusting habits are called into question by right-thinking USians, as if just because nobody can see it, it makes it right!

Wrong! The eyes of the Lord see everything, and to Him it makes no difference whether you sin in the middle of Central Park or whether you sin in your bedroom surrounded by your sick collection of Onanism aids. In both cases you are a pervert and a sinner. And in both cases the same result awaits you - Hell!

Just you wait. As soon as I get your IP tokens from the database I'll be round with some of my fellow Christians, and we will ensure that your soul is saved, because every soul saved is a direct blow for Satan himself!

Now you're just getting nasty. What makes you think that other people looking at pornography, and myself not really caring is justification for calling me a child rapist, pervert, whatever you like?

How do you know what my habits are unless I tell you? Generally, all I do is sleep, wake up, have a shower, get dressed, go to my morning lectures, go back to my hall of residence for lunch, go to afternoon lectures (if there are any, if not I wander down to the town centre), come back and have dinner, and watch TV, listen to music, do some work, read, maybe watch some more TV then go to bed.

Disgusting? I think not.

Feel free to come round and "save my soul". In fact, I'll even stump up for your plane ticket if you were being serious. Then you'll see that what I am is a normal teenage university student, maybe just that little more interested in computers and less interested in porn, drinking, drugs and clubbing than others.

Seriously, I do this for your own good. The state of each person's soul of is paramount importance to those of us fighting the good fight against the Devil, and it is with compassion and understanding that we work to liberate unfortunates such as yourself from the grip of evil.

What makes you think that other people looking at pornography, and myself not really caring is justification for calling me a child rapist, pervert, whatever you like?

I didn't call you a child rapist!

How do you know what my habits are unless I tell you? Generally, all I do is sleep, wake up, have a shower, get dressed, go to my morning lectures, go back to my hall of residence for lunch, go to afternoon lectures (if there are any, if not I wander down to the town centre), come back and have dinner, and watch TV, listen to music, do some work, read, maybe watch some more TV then go to bed.

Yes, but I'm sure spilling your seed comes into that somewhere, and I know you're not innocent of using pornographic aids!

You demand proof, while completely ignoring the obvious fact that if you didn't abuse pornography, you wouldn't be defending it! It is quite clear that only a sinner and a pervert would watch this material, and only one so foul as to be proud of their corruption would actually defend it in public!

Truly, your soul must be blacker than a tar pit, and your destiny an eternity in the fiery pits of Hell paying for your degenerate lusts.

don't read between the lines for something that isn't there. Just because I don't care whether other people look at pornography doesn't mean I look at pornography.

Just because I don't care whether Hitler gasses six million Jews doesn't mean I am a Nazi.

Just because I don't care whether black people are subject to brutal police beatings doesn't mean I am a racist.

Just because I use Linux doesn't mean I am a sweaty poorly socialized 'geek' with no friends and a massively overinflated ego

Just because I read slashdot does not mean I am a closeted homosexual driven to post tedious technical responses in order to sublimate my desire for hot man-on-man action.

Do you see where I am going with this ? It is impossible to just shut yourself off and pretend to not have an opinion. You are either for something, indifferent (i.e. passively in favor) or against it.

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

Ah, the cry of the ignorant self-rightous dipshit (none / 0) (#93)

by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 1st, 2002 at 01:37:56 PM PST

A friend told me something once:

"Conservatives are in most cases the stupidest human beings alive."

After reading your post, I'm inclined to agree.

Can you really come up with a better argument other than accusing people of molesting children?

So, according to you, the proper way to conduct atheist dicourse is to:

Pick random quotes out of context.

Put words into people's mouth.

Avoid trying to understand what is being said.

Make completely false conclusions based on false premises.

Anyways, have fun continuing to be an affront to God. Good luck.

--Peace and much love...

ok? (none / 0) (#89)

by Anonymous Reader on Fri Feb 1st, 2002 at 09:51:57 AM PST

I'll admit this is nitpicking. However, a book that is claimed to be infallible deserves to be nit-picked.

You make accusations, but you do not back them up. How are these quotes out of context? How are words being stuffed into people's mouth? How is what is being said in the bible misunderstod? How are these premises false?

And btw, i'm not sure if you realize or not, but the existence of god is not an issue in this little piece. It is fruitless to try to prove or disprove the existence of god because it cannot be done. rather the point was to show that the foundations that christianity is based upon is a big pile of horse shit.

Christianity is NOT Judaism. While I have lots of respect for Jews, it's not particularly my job to reconcile the (exclusively Jewish) Old Testament with the (Greek-thought-influenced) New Testament. I'm not even interested in claims of infallibility.

Positing an omnipotent creator of the universe (capable of not merely creating matter, but by extension creating concepts such as the Good and the Right,) it's impossible and absurd to accuse such a being of immorality.

Believe it or not, you are not smarter than Einstein, nor are you more enlightened. A theistic viewpoint isn't exactly as abjectly indefensible as you seem to think it is.

I'm an atheist and I don't feel I should have to base my beleifs on superstition. Does this make me a bad person? I try my best in life to be the best person I can be and my morals are of a high standard. But because I don't beleive in an all powerful spirit of which there is no evidence this makes me a bad person.

I'm an atheist and I don't feel I should have to base my beleifs on superstition. Does this make me a bad person?

Yes it does.

I try my best in life to be the best person I can be and my morals are of a high standard.

Try harder, and maybe ask for help from God ?

But because I don't beleive in an all powerful spirit of which there is no evidence this makes me a bad person.

Excuse me, but how much fucking evidence do you require ? The entire world, the Solar System, The Galaxy, the Universe ? The diversity of our biosphere, the elegance of sub-atomic physics and advanced mathematics, conciousness, the miracle of creation.

You seem to take a lot of convincing, atheist-boy. Nobody is going to put one past you, that's for sure !!!

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

OK, that was badly worded. Yes, it does matter whether there's a God or not, I see that. I just don't think we it's worth fighting over when no-one can offer absolute proof either way.

This is before we take into account other religions with their own deities (or lack of).

Re: (none / 0) (#112)

by Anonymous Reader on Wed May 8th, 2002 at 06:47:53 PM PST

OK, I'm a believer in god, I got to church every Sunday and I follow all the rules....and I go around killing people and stealing things. But That doesn't make me a bad person because I believe in god. Right? I think so!

That just dumb. All the stuff here. I mean, every religion I ever encountered (I'm Christian Orthodox BTW) teaches to love and respect fellow man. And as far as I can see, nobody here respects each other and their views.

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