Our sources wouldn’t rule out the possibility [of drafting a QB], pointing to the situations of the 49ers and Seahawks, neither of whom felt they needed a starter when they selected Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson in the second and third rounds, respectively, the past two years.

We hear the Texans would love to have a mobile QB like one of the two aforementioned rising stars.

“Steve Young won a Super Bowl in this offense,” noted a daily team observer. “John Elway was a really good runner. Jake Plummer was a really good runner. When you’re running a bootleg, there is only one guy there to stop the QB. A mobile QB is great for the system.”

Interesting. I wouldn't mind drafting a QB in the earlier rounds. If we get lucky, we'll find the next Russell Wilson.

jaayteetx

01-17-2013, 09:51 PM

IDK, I've heard this draft is pretty thin at QB.

CretorFrigg

01-17-2013, 09:59 PM

IDK, I've heard this draft is pretty thin at QB.

True, I've heard that too, but we're not looking to draft a QB in the first round -- at least, not that I know of. Hopefully, we try to find a diamond in the rough...someone who is considered a later pick due to his lack of height, school he went to, etc.

silentassassin

01-17-2013, 10:00 PM

IDK, I've heard this draft is pretty thin at QB.

Yup.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. Coaches/GMs always say they're going to do their due diligence and not rule anything out.

panamamyers

01-17-2013, 10:46 PM

I can only think of EJ Manuel if they mention mobile qb.

Lucky

01-17-2013, 10:49 PM

IDK, I've heard this draft is pretty thin at QB.
Take this for what it's worth to you. But I heard Lance Zierlein say on the radio this week that as many as 9 QBs could be taken in the first 3 rounds. And that makes sense to me. The QBs coming into the league seem more plug and play than in the past. I think QBs coming into the league now are much more advanced than 10 years ago. Take the right guy in this draft, and you should have a starter by 2014.

Texan_Bill

01-17-2013, 10:53 PM

IDK, I've heard this draft is pretty thin at QB.

JUP!!! Kinda weak in the QB draft class this year.

That said, it doesn't really matter as we've seen a second string collegiate QB, fast track it to the Pro Football HOF.. Who was it that guy that started ahead of him again?
:thinking:

Lucky

01-17-2013, 10:55 PM

I can only think of EJ Manuel if they mention mobile qb.
The field widens if you define mobile as faster than a glacier.

Kaiser Toro

01-17-2013, 10:57 PM

The commoditization of the QB position is upon us.

powda

01-17-2013, 11:01 PM

Kubiak needs to get outside his comfort zone here. Dont just make the "safe pick," get somebody with a ceiling. And why settle for mobile? How bout mobile AND a legit deep ball. Our offense has become so predictible, if you add a qb who can competently threaten deep, we stop being so one dimensional. He doesn't have to start next season and drafting a guy in the top 3 rounds might light a fire in schaub and yates. There's been no competition for schaub just as there wasnt for carr.

When people here have to wonder if Kenuhm is a solution you know it's bad. Get it done!

Brisco_County

01-17-2013, 11:02 PM

They should be scouting QB's either way. When Schaub's contract is over in three years, his wear-and-tear alone would discourage an extension.

Rey

01-17-2013, 11:14 PM

Zac dysert please!

MEGA SWATT

01-17-2013, 11:20 PM

Michael Vick is mobile :thinking:

just saying:scarygirl:

Thanks OP, would be very nice to get the next mobile qb.

LonerATO

01-17-2013, 11:21 PM

I can only think of EJ Manuel if they mention mobile qb.

EJ Manuel would be a good fit for this system, but I hear that he has trouble digesting the playbook and that could hurt him.

powda

01-17-2013, 11:24 PM

Zac dysert please!

Was he ever a tightend?

Perki-Perk

01-17-2013, 11:26 PM

True, I've heard that too, but we're not looking to draft a QB in the first round -- at least, not that I know of. Hopefully, we try to find a diamond in the rough...someone who is considered a later pick due to his lack of height, school he went to, etc.

Isn't that what Yates was???

panamamyers

01-17-2013, 11:27 PM

What do you guys think of Jordan Rodgers from Vanderbilt or BJ Daniels from South Florida?

Texecutioner

01-17-2013, 11:40 PM

Take this for what it's worth to you. But I heard Lance Zierlein say on the radio this week that as many as 9 QBs could be taken in the first 3 rounds. And that makes sense to me. The QBs coming into the league seem more plug and play than in the past. I think QBs coming into the league now are much more advanced than 10 years ago. Take the right guy in this draft, and you should have a starter by 2014.

That may be true, but I think more then anything that it is the new rules that make it easier for these younger QB's to have the success they are. The success of the spread offense seems to really be helping out so many of these fresh QB's from college.

GP

01-17-2013, 11:48 PM

EJ Manuel would be a good fit for this system, but I hear that he has trouble digesting the playbook and that could hurt him.

I would think that attempting to digest a playbook would, indeed, hurt him.

:kitten:

:lol:

Playoffs

01-17-2013, 11:56 PM

Texans also won't rule out drafting OL, TE, WR, RB, DL, LB, DB.

Our sources tell us Texans are unlikely to draft a K or P.

Carr Bombed

01-18-2013, 12:07 AM

I can only think of EJ Manuel if they mention mobile qb.

PUKE! http://www.soonet.ca/images/smilies/Smile/suicide.gif

We already have a QB who struggles in big games.. Manuel is even (exponentially) worse. No Thanks.

Hookem Horns

01-18-2013, 12:14 AM

Michael Vick is mobile :thinking:

just saying:scarygirl:

Thanks OP, would be very nice to get the next mobile qb.

So is Vince Young.

:kitten:

Ryan

01-18-2013, 12:14 AM

They should be scouting QB's either way. When Schaub's contract is over in three years, his wear-and-tear alone would discourage an extension.

He signed a 4 year extension to add to the previous 1 year, so Schaubby will be around through 2016.

steelbtexan

01-18-2013, 12:19 AM

Zac dysert please!

Yep, what rd? I like Dysert alot. Big mobile, great arm, accurate.

Or my guy Bray in the 2nd.

WolverineFan

01-18-2013, 01:00 AM

What do you guys think of Jordan Rodgers from Vanderbilt or BJ Daniels from South Florida?

To put it lightly? No on both.

greekdbag

01-18-2013, 01:22 AM

Yep, what rd? I like Dysert alot. Big mobile, great arm, accurate.

Or my guy Bray in the 2nd.

I like both guys. I also wouldn't mind waiting until next draft to address QB. The top five next draft would be Mccarron, Murray, Bridgewater, Boyd, and Manziel possibly.

MistaRed

01-18-2013, 01:46 AM

Michael Vick is mobile :thinking:

just saying:scarygirl:

I wish we could pick up Vick.

Norg

01-18-2013, 02:09 AM

says sports yahooo LOL no way we are drafting a QB

besides it wasent my time but Young and elway were not that moblie IMO yeah maybe there first 3 years but after that nope and neither won a SB till later in there career right ..??? when they were more pocket passers

and call me crazy but i dont think a "moblie" QB has ever one the Super bowl and i bet that trend will continue this year yet again

MistaRed

01-18-2013, 02:17 AM

says sports yahooo LOL no way we are drafting a QB

besides it wasent my time but Young and elway were not that moblie IMO yeah maybe there first 3 years but after that nope and neither won a SB till later in there career right ..??? when they were more pocket passers

and call me crazy but i dont think a "moblie" QB has ever one the Super bowl and i bet that trend will continue this year yet again

Aaron Rodgers wouldn't qualify as a mobile QB?

Norg

01-18-2013, 02:25 AM

Aaron Rodgers wouldn't qualify as a mobile QB?

yeah i was thinking about that but hes a pocket passer trough and through IMO

mobile to means u gotta be really fast and be able to lay the wood on someone when a linebacker is going to come and lay the wood on rodgers what do u think hes going to do go in head first or slide ...????? SLIDE i say and lets be honest arron does not have world athelthic speed

anywayz watch in 4 years Rodgers will not be running has fast or at all

ObsiWan

01-18-2013, 03:11 AM

says sports yahooo LOL no way we are drafting a QB

besides it wasent my time but Young and elway were not that moblie IMO yeah maybe there first 3 years but after that nope and neither won a SB till later in there career right ..??? when they were more pocket passers

and call me crazy but i dont think a "moblie" QB has ever one the Super bowl and i bet that trend will continue this year yet again

Aaron Rodgers wouldn't qualify as a mobile QB?

yeah i was thinking about that but hes a pocket passer trough and through IMO

mobile to means u gotta be really fast and be able to lay the wood on someone when a linebacker is going to come and lay the wood on rodgers what do u think hes going to do go in head first or slide ...????? SLIDE i say and lets be honest arron does not have world athelthic speed

anywayz watch in 4 years Rodgers will not be running has fast or at all

I guess I disagree with the "you gotta be really fast and be able to "lay the wood on someone" when you're talking about QBs. That's why I have running backs. RGIII ain't gonna "lay the wood" on any decent LB.

And actually, I would consider all three - Steve Young, John Elway, and Aaron Rodgers - as mobile QBs. True, they aren't speedy, OPTION QBs in the RGIII and Kaepernick sense, but they were/are mobile and elusive enough to escape the rush and make the rollout pass effective. Plus they had/have the deep ball at their disposal. That would still be an upgrade from what we have now.

If you'll only swap Schaub for the next RGIII, Kaepernick, or Russell Wilson, you may be stuck with Schaub for quite a while.

Norg

01-18-2013, 04:01 AM

ok yeah u gotta be athelthic enough to move around in the pocket and run four 4 to 5 yards then slide thats a plus i guess thats like teir 1 Mobile QB IMO Rodgers alex smith etc etc teir 2 would be RG III and Kapernick

IMO running a bootleg play were u run back fake the run then run a U behind the line isnt that hard any QB can do that mobile or not the hard part on thoes plays is reading the COverage very fast before the free Man comes rushing in your face and there is well most of the time a free Linemen or Lber coming at U

haha and yeah and the only people that might lay some wood on u is the FB type QB's the ones that are big and strong alla David garred used to be like that TIm tebow maybe and Josh Freemen

thunderkyss

01-18-2013, 05:52 AM

Texans also won't rule out drafting OL, TE, WR, RB, DL, LB, DB.

Our sources tell us Texans are unlikely to draft a K or P.

Exactly, this is just "source" speak, much like coach speak, means nothing.

If Kubiak thought there was a problem at the QB position, we'd have seen more Tj Yates in our 20 point victories, where the offense did nothing to help us win in the second half.

b0ng

01-18-2013, 08:32 AM

IDK, I've heard this draft is pretty thin at QB.

It's not that it's thin at QB, there's just no guys that look like they are worth taking in the top 5 currently. This is all prior to any workouts or senior/east-west games so that obviously can change. There are quite a bit of QB's that have some good measureables and some good skills, but they aren't quite as slam dunk'ish as say last year, or the year before (No Cam Newton, No Andrew Luck, No RGIII).

Of course you guys know as well as I do that Bob McNair is holding out for Johnny Foootball.

GP

01-18-2013, 09:52 AM

It's not that it's thin at QB, there's just no guys that look like they are worth taking in the top 5 currently. This is all prior to any workouts or senior/east-west games so that obviously can change. There are quite a bit of QB's that have some good measureables and some good skills, but they aren't quite as slam dunk'ish as say last year, or the year before (No Cam Newton, No Andrew Luck, No RGIII).

Of course you guys know as well as I do that Bob McNair is holding out for Johnny Foootball.

I think it'd be far from possible to see Johnny Football in a Texans jersey.

1. There's no guarantee that this guy is going to replicate his second season in the SEC. SEC teams will prepare for him more than ever, and at some point they will figure out a way to shut him down at least enough to make him average.

2. Even IF he continues on a superstar track, we'd have to be bad enough to be in a position to get him. Or, we'd have to trade a lot of assets to get into position to get him. And with the way the 49ers and Seahawks have found their own Johnny Football QB, I don't even think a team would take a large grouping of trade assets from us. I think they'd stay put and take the kid themselves.

3. The kid's character is poor. He's way too open with his activities, as in SCARES THE HELL OUT OF MCNAIR type of character. He's dirty dancing with a girl who looks like she came straight from a whore house, he's openly drinking champagne even though he's not 21, and there's other stuff too that scares a guy like McNair. Could we chalk this up to him just being young and wild...something that goes away as quickly as it came upon him this year? I dunno. But I bet McNair thinks someone else can take that risk.

That's only 3 scenarios in which Johnny Football won't be a Texans QB.

I think a better solution would be to hire Kevin Sumlin at the end of 2013's season, after Kubiak again gets waxed in the divisional round because he played Matt Schaub again and got the same results. Again. Then Sumlin could work with Case Keenum, or you could see if it's possible to throw all your chips into the Johnny Football race. Either way, I think IF Sumlin makes the Aggies special again, we could easily send Kubiak to A&M and Sumlin to the Texans.

Rey

01-18-2013, 10:28 AM

One

panamamyers

01-18-2013, 10:56 AM

Manziel redshirted, so he can come out after one more year.

Young and Elway were absolutely, positively mobile qb's. For their time, they were two of the top 3 or 4 mobile qb's in the whole league.

Young had over 4,200 yards rushing in his career. That is 3rd all-time for a qb behind Vick and Cunningham. Elway is also in the top 7 all-time for qb's in rushing yards.

You have Cunningham, Vick, Young, Tarkenton, McNair, McNabb and Elway.
Those are the top seven running qb's of all time.

Aaron Rodgers is also certainly a mobile qb. He was 7th in the league this year in rushing for a qb, behind RG3, Kaepernick, Wilson, Newton, Vick and Locker.

Roethlisberger is also one of the most mobile qb's in the NFL. Maybe he does not end up running for a lot of yards, buthe is certainly mobile in the pocket.

Lastly, who even cares if a mobile qb had truly never won a Super Bowl, though that is not true. In 1960, a team that passed more than 15 times a game had never won a championship either.
Things change. Evolve or get left behind.

RT22

01-18-2013, 11:03 AM

If the Texans were looking to draft a QB to groom it would one more like R. Wilson. A 3rd pick that is mobile and athletic (not a 4.4 guy but can run for 5-10 yards if needed) accurate with a good deep ball he will have a knock on him that will be obvious. He will have to have a body of work no one year wonder types. Our biggest weakness with our current group of QB's is that there is no threat to run on the backside of the boot/play-action to keep the defense honest. When you have that threat it opens the run lanes for the one cut in the zone blocking scheme.

silvrhand

01-18-2013, 11:03 AM

Let's be honest, of all the Superbowls this is kind of how I see it. More great QB's have won the game more than average, over a 45 year span. 8 QB's that I would consider a "game manager" has ever won the superbowl, and a couple are suspect as a game manager, as I think that has to come off when you win more than one superbowl.

Phill Simms/Bob Griese

In short you have to have a "GREAT" qb to have the best chance at winning the superbowl IMHO. I feel the facts below only reinforce the fact we don't have a superbowl QB that gives us the best chance to win the big game.

Wow you guys are already lining johnny football up for the HOF eh? Oh boy..

silvrhand

01-18-2013, 11:27 AM

I don't consider these two game managers.

McMahon was a fiery player and Williams straight lit it up in that SuperBowl.

... Williams had one good game, and they had a heck of a running back that year too.. McMahon rode the bears defense, and Waltor Payton who rushed for over 1500 yards, and their fullback was almost 500 as well.

"the Bears primary deep threat was wide receiver Willie Gault, who caught 33 passes for 704 yards, an average of 21.3 yards per catch, and returned 22 kickoffs for 557 yards and a touchdown. Tight end Emery Moorehead was another key contributor, catching 35 passes for 481 yards. Wide receiver Dennis McKinnon was another passing weapon, recording 31 receptions, 555 yards, and 7 touchdowns. On special teams, Kevin Butler set a rookie scoring record with 144 points, making 31 of 37 field goals (83%) and 51 of 51 extra points."

I don't consider that to be an amazing passing attack, that's the gift of having one of the best ever playing running back, and a damn good fullback in the mix.

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 11:27 AM

Let's be honest, of all the Superbowls this is kind of how I see it. More great QB's have won the game more than average, over a 45 year span. 8 QB's that I would consider a "game manager" has ever won the superbowl, and a couple are suspect as a game manager, as I think that has to come off when you win more than one superbowl.

Phill Simms/Bob Griese

In short you have to have a "GREAT" qb to have the best chance at winning the superbowl IMHO. I feel the facts below only reinforce the fact we don't have a superbowl QB that gives us the best chance to win the big game.

Shows very sound passing mechanics for the most part
When he pulls the ball down, has size and speed to run effectively
Has the ability to adapt to offense that can utilize his running ability

Cons

Erratic decision-maker
Makes too many mistakes when pocket starts breaking down
Hasn’t played with consistency against better defenses

Overall

When it comes to tools and potential, it will be hard to find very many quarterbacks better than Manuel. *However, for as high as his ceiling might be, his floor is also relatively low. *Manuel ran some zone-read and straight lead option plays which may appeal to teams looking to incorporate what 49’ers are doing. Showed growth in accuracy and overall play from 2011 to 2012. *Didn’t have the success you would like to see against the better defenses. *Looks like a good fit for a zone team using play-action passing game with roll-outs.

Hookem Horns

01-18-2013, 11:38 AM

almost 50% of the superbowls have been won by a 1st round pick...

Almost all (if not all) were won by the typical pocket passer types. A few were mobile like Young, Elway and Staubach but none of these guys were like RGIII or Russell Wilson.

That said I think that will change in the near future as the game keeps evolving.

Doug Williams (my original favorite QB .. had his jersey when I was a kid) is still the only black QB to win the SB. That's gotta change soon too.

Vinny

01-18-2013, 11:47 AM

Almost all (if not all) were won by the typical pocket passer types. A few were mobile like Young, Elway and Staubach but none of these guys were like RGIII or Russell Wilson.

That said I think that will change in the near future as the game keeps evolving.

Doug Williams (my original favorite QB .. had his jersey when I was a kid) is still the only black QB to win the SB. That's gotta change soon too.

Doug Williams was always and is now still underrated. People can say what they want about him but the Bucs didn't win till he got there and he was a very important part of that Redskins SB.

Now that quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles, teams are really starting to exploit the protections. The defenses around the league have been fined gargantuan sums of money for intimidating wr's and qb's for the last couple of years so I think the new era of arena league scoring is off and running.

I don't think teams "need" a running quarterback, but I think the old template isn't the only way to go anymore even though I think that Brady is going to win another one this year. Classic drop back guy isn't dead, but I think more and more quality offensive teams will start to look like the Kapernick 9ers, the RG3 Skins and Wilson Seahawks as the offensive weapons are all bubble wrapped and defenders intimidated with massive fines in this current Goodell era.

Rey

01-18-2013, 11:50 AM

LZ has a good write up on his blog. 4QBs the Texans should keep an eye on:

I kind of like the potential EJ Manuel would bring to our style of offense.

This is what he days about dysert:

Overall
Dysert has decent size, a decent arm and decent productivity, but there is something about the sum being greater than the part. Dysert shows outstanding pocket poise and ability to throw with accuracy from tough angles and off-balance. Plays for a poor team and could show substantial growth with better talent around him. Has played under center and throws ball well while rolling right. Has to make tough throws due to pressure so needs to work on setting feet more often. He doesn&rsquo;t let previous sacks cause him to lose focus in pocket. Looks like a solid value pick with starting potential.

Get er done Rick!

badboy

01-18-2013, 11:54 AM

True, I've heard that too, but we're not looking to draft a QB in the first round -- at least, not that I know of. Hopefully, we try to find a diamond in the rough...someone who is considered a later pick due to his lack of height, school he went to, etc.yeah like Case Keenum

panamamyers

01-18-2013, 12:03 PM

The 2002 Bucs had the number one scoring defense.
The 2000 Ravens had the number one scoring defense.
The 1991 Redskins had the number two scoring defense.

So, 1987 was the last time you had a team win the Super Bowl that did not have a Hall of Fame qb or a top two defense. Heck, even if you just say you need a #1 defense overall, you still have to go back to 1991 to find a team that did not have that or a HOF qb.

HOU-TEX

01-18-2013, 12:09 PM

We've drafted a QB in the past, this wouldn't be much of a surprise. Schaub just got paid so I think it's safe to say he'll be the starter no matter who might be drafted.

In the end, it'll be status quo for the offense, considering we'll be rolling out the same scheme with the same guy running it. We can only hope bolstering the defense and the Oline can get us to the top. If not, we've reached our peak

GP

01-18-2013, 12:13 PM

I know Tom Landry experimented with changing QBs out every other snap...and it was a HUGE failure.

However, what would be the chances in the near future that an NFL team designs two offenses...one for a pocket passer, and one for a scrambling QB, and then they convince those two guys to split the duties according to whatever team they are facing?

One week, your pocket passer might be the answer to an opposing defense.

The next week, you might pull him in favor of the more mobile QB who can take advantage of perhaps a completely different type of opposing defense.

The payoff would be that teams no longer have to stick with ONE GUY the whole way through, there is a prearranged agreement whereby the whole team buys into the deal. More teamwork than Lone Ranger stuff like we have always seen in the NFL.

The NFL is changing. The rules for QBs, Receivers, and Defenses are begging a team to take advantage of it.

GP

01-18-2013, 12:16 PM

We've drafted a QB in the past, this wouldn't be much of a surprise. Schaub just got paid so I think it's safe to say he'll be the starter no matter who might be drafted.

In the end, it'll be status quo for the offense, considering we'll be rolling out the same scheme with the same guy running it. We can only hope bolstering the defense and the Oline can get us to the top. If not, we've reached our peak

I do think, if Kubiak and Smith and his crew review the tapes...and IF they see that Matt Schaub's inability to evade pressure and even make just some semblance of a play while on the run (and let's face it, he can't)...then I think there's nothing holding this team back from trading Schaub away.

I don't think it would happen, but frankly I do think (unless he has a trade clause I don't know about) that it IS an option if they wanted to rid the cap fallout and start over.

There are a handful of teams whom I think would consider taking Schaub and his salary. We might even have to sweeten the pot somehow, but if they wanted to get rid of Schaub and his contract...I think they could get it done.

But yet I also will say that will never happen. They will think they just need better OL protection for him, he just needs more talent at the WR and TE position. And better defense around him. They will talk themselves into ignoring the obvious, which is their standard operating procedure.

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 12:22 PM

We have a slow plodding offense that is best when the defense is great . The problem is the defense did not get that memo this year .

If we increase the deep speed at WR , the defense doesn't have to respect that cause Matt can't throw it that far . It's like when the Oilers traded Pastorini for Stabler . The defense didn't have to respect the deep ball because the Snake didn't have one . The defense crept even closer to the LOS smothering Earl .

I've said before that bad special teams = a slow team .

Why are the Texans still good ? They have some of the key components in D. Brown , J JO , JJ Watt , and AJ . I think they're building blocks except they've wasted AJ .

The winner score fewer than 28 points 22 times.
Some of the scores were not from the offense.

There had been 29 non-offensive TDs and 5 safeties scored, most of them by the winning team. (I did a rough count so the numbers may be off a bit.)

This doesn't include turnovers that set up the other team to score quickly.

There were at least 3 instances where the winning team scored fewer offensive points.

So, do you need an elite defense or an elite QB?
It looks like a toss-up to me.

So it sounds like you need coaching also ?

Vinny

01-18-2013, 12:34 PM

So it sounds like you need coaching also ? that's the problem with winning Super Bowls...you have to beat Great quarterbacks, great defensive units and well coached teams. All season long I kept hearing the Texans pat themselves on the back telling everyone how good they were...hopefully they do less patting next year and work in more out-coaching and out-playing great teams. To be a great team you gotta start beating great teams.

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 12:40 PM

that's the problem with winning Super Bowls...you have to beat Great quarterbacks, great defensive units and well coached teams. All season long I kept hearing the Texans pat themselves on the back telling everyone how good they were...hopefully they do less patting next year and work in more out-coaching and out-playing great teams. To be a great team you gotta start beating great teams.

Ok ... sounds like we need three Battle Red days and two Liberty whites to get over the hump . :kubepalm:

76Texan

01-18-2013, 12:48 PM

So it sounds like you need coaching also ?

I imagine that would help.
But there were coaches who won the SB that weren't considered great HC.
Some of them had been fired in their career.
Or there are coaches like Coughlin who didn't win it until his 12th or 13th year.

Vinny

01-18-2013, 12:57 PM

I imagine that would help.
But there were coaches who won the SB that weren't considered great HC.
Some of them had been fired in their career.
Or there are coaches like Coughlin who didn't win it until his 12th or 13th year.Coughlin also took an expansion Jaguar team to the AFC Championship in record time.

welsh texan

01-18-2013, 01:00 PM

I do think, if Kubiak and Smith and his crew review the tapes...and IF they see that Matt Schaub's inability to evade pressure and even make just some semblance of a play while on the run (and let's face it, he can't)...then I think there's nothing holding this team back from trading Schaub away.

I don't think it would happen, but frankly I do think (unless he has a trade clause I don't know about) that it IS an option if they wanted to rid the cap fallout and start over.

There are a handful of teams whom I think would consider taking Schaub and his salary. We might even have to sweeten the pot somehow, but if they wanted to get rid of Schaub and his contract...I think they could get it done.

But yet I also will say that will never happen. They will think they just need better OL protection for him, he just needs more talent at the WR and TE position. And better defense around him. They will talk themselves into ignoring the obvious, which is their standard operating procedure.

How much do we know about the contract and cap hit? Struggle to believe that £60m or whatever it is is just going to dissapear off the books 5 months into the contract, of course if the replacement is going to be on a rookie contract maybe you can take the hit over one or 2 seasons but I really don't see it happening. I think the best hope of improvement at the QB position on this team in the next 2 seasons is that Schaub can improve his overall fitness level with a full offseason and won't wither down the stretch. We can get it done with him in first half of the season form, not that it's ideal, but the pieces around him can help him through.

The Oline should improve with experience on the right side even if no signing can be made, but I think I'm right in saying Wade Smith is the only guy who's ever been plugged and played effectively first season since they started the project so who's to say a high draft pick would be any better immediately than the experience we've already built up?

Id quite happily see them take a QB early but I think we all know that there is as much chance of them taking a late pick just like with the Yates pick and seeing if he shakes out into backup quality down the line.

Get the feeling Yates was simply as well prepared as you could expect to take over last season but the issues will be too much now they have tape on him, Kubiak doesn't seem as enamoured as he was this time a year ago.

Double Barrel

01-18-2013, 01:06 PM

Doug Williams was always and is now still underrated. People can say what they want about him but the Bucs didn't win till he got there and he was a very important part of that Redskins SB.

Now that quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles, teams are really starting to exploit the protections. The defenses around the league have been fined gargantuan sums of money for intimidating wr's and qb's for the last couple of years so I think the new era of arena league scoring is off and running.

I don't think teams "need" a running quarterback, but I think the old template isn't the only way to go anymore even though I think that Brady is going to win another one this year. Classic drop back guy isn't dead, but I think more and more quality offensive teams will start to look like the Kapernick 9ers, the RG3 Skins and Wilson Seahawks as the offensive weapons are all bubble wrapped and defenders intimidated with massive fines in this current Goodell era.

lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!

Classic Vinnyism, man! :thumbup

We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.

Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.

Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.

The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.

However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.

The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.

I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 01:14 PM

lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!

Classic Vinnyism, man! :thumbup

We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.

Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.

Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.

The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.

However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.

The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.

I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.

Tebow , and VY couldn't touch Cam N , RG3 , and Colin K as far as passers go . You could throw Luck in there also because he's nowhere near a stiff as a runner .

I'm not sure about Cam and Colin but Luck and RG3 really seem to get the game and don't wan to tuck and run or dump it off every time .

Double Barrel

01-18-2013, 01:18 PM

Tebow , and VY couldn't touch Cam N , RG3 , and Colin K as far as passers go . You could throw Luck in there also because he's nowhere near a stiff as a runner .

Which draft - 2011 or 2012 - do you think will ultimately be considered greater for QBs?

I think the 2012 has the potential to rival the 1983 draft. Big expectations, of course (considering the HoFer in that draft), but Luck, Wilson, and RGIII certainly look to have the skills.

infantrycak

01-18-2013, 01:32 PM

I don't think it would happen, but frankly I do think (unless he has a trade clause I don't know about) that it IS an option if they wanted to rid the cap fallout and start over.

You have been here too long to not know this. Trading a player does not eliminate his cap fallout. The signing bonus falls entirely on the original team. Everything which has not already been prorated is accelerated and would fall on the Texans. That's $14 mil in dead money. Schaub will not be traded this year.

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 01:35 PM

Which draft - 2011 or 2012 - do you think will ultimately be considered greater for QBs?

I think the 2012 has the potential to rival the 1983 draft. Big expectations, of course (considering the HoFer in that draft), but Luck, Wilson, and RGIII certainly look to have the skills.

The Redskins need to stop using RG3 in a college offense 1st .

I think 1983 , 2004 , and 2012 are the best QB drafts . The 2004 QBs have won more SBs already than the 1983 class but the 83 guys appeared in a bunch .

http://www.quickfixsports.com/football/best-nfl-qb-class/

or kicks here is how all three NFL QB classes compare by career. I don’t know if there will ever be a class like 1983 when you see the sheer mass of what they’ve accomplished. If someone is to challenge, it will likely be the seasoned class of 2004 or the young guns of 2012. Only time will tell…

76Texan

01-18-2013, 01:39 PM

Coughlin also took an expansion Jaguar team to the AFC Championship in record time.

While Coughlin deserves the praise, the way the expansion draft was set up at the time benefited both of those teams greatly.

Each had some 14 extra picks the first two years.

In their first year, the Jags roster included something like 6 first rounders, 5 second rounders, and 3 thirds and fourths each.
Add that to the number of veterans who were lower former draft choices and the extra picks they get in the second year, and that team can be built pretty quickly.

On top of that, somehow they managed to trade Rob Johnson (a 4th rounder that hardly played) for a first (with witch they picked Fred Taylor) and a 4th.

The credit for Selecting and/or trading those players should also be given to their GM, the scouting department, and the other coaches who may have had some inputs.

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 01:43 PM

While Coughlin deserves the praise, the way the expansion draft was set up at the time benefited both of those teams greatly.

Each had some 14 extra picks the first two years.

In their first year, the Jags roster included something like 6 first rounders, 5 second rounders, and 3 thirds and fourths each.
Add that to the number of veterans who were lower former draft choices and the extra picks they get in the second year, and that team can be built pretty quickly.

On top of that, somehow they managed to trade Rob Johnson (a 4th rounder that hardly played) for a first (with witch they picked Fred Taylor) and a 4th.

The credit for Selecting and/or trading those players should also be given to their GM, the scouting department, and the other coaches who may have had some inputs.

If you are a non committed player drawing a paycheck , you can't play for Coughlin .

tru80texan

01-18-2013, 01:46 PM

Which draft - 2011 or 2012 - do you think will ultimately be considered greater for QBs?

I think the 2012 has the potential to rival the 1983 draft. Big expectations, of course (considering the HoFer in that draft), but Luck, Wilson, and RGIII certainly look to have the skills.

With the emergence of Kaepernick that helps 2011, but I think it remains to be seen how Tannehill & Brock WhatshisnamewhoplaysforDenver turns out as well to judge the 2012 class. Outside of Dalton, Kaepernick, & Cam it doesn't seem like the 2011 class has much more to offer.

76Texan

01-18-2013, 02:00 PM

If you are a non committed player drawing a paycheck , you can't play for Coughlin .

From what I read, because of those big contracts, the Jags slowly found themselves in cap hell, and had to dig themselves out of it painfully, thus the ensuing downturn.

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 02:06 PM

From what I read, because of those big contracts, the Jags slowly found themselves in cap hell, and had to dig themselves out of it painfully, thus the ensuing downturn.

That and a surgeon ruined their best player .

CretorFrigg

01-18-2013, 02:06 PM

This is what he days about dysert:

Overall
Dysert has decent size, a decent arm and decent productivity, but there is something about the sum being greater than the part. Dysert shows outstanding pocket poise and ability to throw with accuracy from tough angles and off-balance. Plays for a poor team and could show substantial growth with better talent around him. Has played under center and throws ball well while rolling right. Has to make tough throws due to pressure so needs to work on setting feet more often. He doesn&rsquo;t let previous sacks cause him to lose focus in pocket. Looks like a solid value pick with starting potential.

Get er done Rick!

I saw his game against Ohio State, and he looked great. His throws were on target, but a lot of the passes were dropped by his receivers.

El Tejano

01-18-2013, 02:10 PM

His name is Case Keenum!

sandman

01-18-2013, 02:51 PM

Doug Williams (my original favorite QB .. had his jersey when I was a kid) is still the only black QB to win the SB. That's gotta change soon too.

Affirmative action on SB winning QB's?

Hookem Horns

01-18-2013, 03:22 PM

Affirmative action on SB winning QB's?

Not really, I think you misunderstood what I meant by "gotta". I meant with more and more starting black QBs starting that's bound to change soon.

Besides Vince Young did say he was going to be the next black QB to win the SB and he's not getting any younger.

HJam72

01-18-2013, 05:03 PM

Not really, I think you misunderstood what I meant by "gotta". I meant with more and more starting black QBs starting that's bound to change soon.

Besides Vince Young did say he was going to be the next black QB to win the SB and he's not getting any younger.

I think he lost his chance.

Jules Winnfield

01-18-2013, 05:43 PM

how do most nfl franchises get superstar hall of fame level franchise qbs?

Answer: high end draft picks.

Why is this so hard to figure out for Gary Kubiak and Texan front office personnel?

ObsiWan

01-18-2013, 05:49 PM

lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!

Classic Vinnyism, man! :thumbup

No lie. Repped.
(Vinny, I mean)

We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.
And before that there was Randall Cunningham... and after that Kordell "Slash" Stewart... One could possibly put Steve McNair in that group; while he wasn't as elusive as Cunningham or Slash, he could run effectively when needed.[/quote]

Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.

Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.

The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.

However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.

The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.

I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.
So you're saying to have any longevity, the guys making plays with their legs today, must eventually (the sooner the better) evolve into QBs that make plays with their minds and arms?

I'm with you on that point.

Unfortunately, we have one that has limited (and diminishing) running proficiency and now his arm proficiency is being called into question.

So do we outright replace him NOW, or wait until his mind starts to write checks his body can't cash.
(yeah, I know, some of y'all think he's at that point right now...)

thunderkyss

01-18-2013, 07:18 PM

Just asking, how bad do you think it will have to get before there is a QB change in Houston?

Not at all
Do you think the Texans' thinktank will decide the time for a new QB is now? Is the window opening? Is the window closing? How would the window be affected if we made a change? How would the window be affected if there was no change?

1 game under .500
Is Matt on a really short leash? Does the F.O. have any confidence in Matt Schaub?

2 games out of .500
More of the same, no confidence, longer leash?

3 games behind the division leader
Now it's real? The division is on the line. It's not all Matt's fault, but he has the biggest impact on the team. Changing this one position, has the potential to radically improve your team.

risk of a losing season
The F.O. still believes Matt gives us the best chance to win. It will take a natural disaster to unseat Schaub.

How likely do you think that is to happen?

Honoring Earl 34

01-18-2013, 07:20 PM

Just asking, how bad do you think it will have to get before there is a QB change in Houston?

Not at all
Do you think the Texans' thinktank will decide the time for a new QB is now? Is the window opening? Is the window closing? How would the window be affected if we made a change? How would the window be affected if there was no change?

1 game under .500
Is Matt on a really short leash? Does the F.O. have any confidence in Matt Schaub?

2 games out of .500
More of the same, no confidence, longer leash?

3 games behind the division leader
Now it's real? The division is on the line. It's not all Matt's fault, but he has the biggest impact on the team. Changing this one position, has the potential to radically improve your team.

risk of a losing season
The F.O. still believes Matt gives us the best chance to win. It will take a natural disaster to unseat Schaub.

Just asking, how bad do you think it will have to get before there is a QB change in Houston?

Not at all
Do you think the Texans' thinktank will decide the time for a new QB is now? Is the window opening? Is the window closing? How would the window be affected if we made a change? How would the window be affected if there was no change?

1 game under .500
Is Matt on a really short leash? Does the F.O. have any confidence in Matt Schaub?

2 games out of .500
More of the same, no confidence, longer leash?

3 games behind the division leader
Now it's real? The division is on the line. It's not all Matt's fault, but he has the biggest impact on the team. Changing this one position, has the potential to radically improve your team.

risk of a losing season
The F.O. still believes Matt gives us the best chance to win. It will take a natural disaster to unseat Schaub.

How likely do you think that is to happen?

Kubiak may be welded to Schaub but welds can be cut.

If it looks like the division championship/playoff appearance is at risk - and the screw ups can be traced to Schaub's substandard performance - then Kubiak changes horses. Meaning if Foster is running well and the defense is keeping the opposition scores within reason - 17-24 points/game then I think it's on Schaub to get the ball to the playmakers. They look at the game film every Monday. If week after week the film study shows Schaub is leaving points on the field, then Kubiak will make a change. He won't lose his job because Matt can't cut the mustard.

Remember what he said right after that "we believe in Schaub" statement? The very next sentence was "...but we're going to continue to push him to get better." He tried to dress it up by saying, "we're going to push everyone to get better." But that tells me he was not happy with Schaub's performance. That whole, "we believe..." schick is Kubiak refusing to throw Schaub under the bus. But, IMHO, he was no happier with Schaub's Dec/Jan performance than we were.

Lucky

01-18-2013, 08:05 PM

That whole, "we believe..." schick is Kubiak refusing to throw Schaub under the bus.
It's also about arse covering, after handing out that monster extension.

ObsiWan

01-18-2013, 08:11 PM

It's also about arse covering, after handing out that monster extension.

yeah...
...well that too.
:mariopalm:

GP

01-18-2013, 08:18 PM

Nobody needs to toss names like Cunningham, Stewart, and McNair into this situation of today's "more mobile" QBs.

CHANGES IN RULES.

The rules now are wayyyyy different than in the days of those "more mobile" QBs. Back then, they got hammered every time no matter what. There was no penalty for hitting them at the knees or below. There was no penalty for helmet-to-helmet contact on a QB. Etc., etc.

Today, the mobile QB can benefit from a defense being too scared to draw a penalty (and a fine).

Now is the time to push the mobile QBs. Two teams decided to do so already.

Grungo_Taco

01-18-2013, 08:20 PM

Kubiak may be welded to Schaub but welds can be cut.

If it looks like the division championship/playoff appearance is at risk - and the screw ups can be traced to Schaub's substandard performance - then Kubiak changes horses. Meaning if Foster is running well and the defense is keeping the opposition scores within reason - 17-24 points/game then I think it's on Schaub to get the ball to the playmakers. They look at the game film every Monday. If week after week the film study shows Schaub is leaving points on the field, then Kubiak will make a change. He won't lose his job because Matt can't cut the mustard.

Remember what he said right after that "we believe in Schaub" statement? The very next sentence was "...but we're going to continue to push him to get better." He tried to dress it up by saying, "we're going to push everyone to get better." But that tells me he was not happy with Schaub's performance. That whole, "we believe..." schick is Kubiak refusing to throw Schaub under the bus. But, IMHO, he was no happier with Schaub's Dec/Jan performance than we were.

i disagree. kubiak is going down with his ship named schaub.

thunderkyss

01-18-2013, 08:38 PM

It's also about arse covering, after handing out that monster extension.

I would think covering his butt would mean win more games. Putting $60M in front of Schaub is more Smith's mistake than Kubiak's, even if Kubiak told him to do it. Kubiak get's paid to win games.

silentassassin

01-18-2013, 08:58 PM

how do most nfl franchises get superstar hall of fame level franchise qbs?

Answer: high end draft picks.

Why is this so hard to figure out for Gary Kubiak and Texan front office personnel?

I don't think it's that it's hard for them to figure out.

You have to think about feasibility. You don't just get to turn deals and move up in drafts whenever you feel like it.

infantrycak

01-19-2013, 12:24 AM

Nobody needs to toss names like Cunningham, Stewart, and McNair into this situation of today's "more mobile" QBs.

CHANGES IN RULES.

The rules now are wayyyyy different than in the days of those "more mobile" QBs. Back then, they got hammered every time no matter what. There was no penalty for hitting them at the knees or below. There was no penalty for helmet-to-helmet contact on a QB. Etc., etc.

Today, the mobile QB can benefit from a defense being too scared to draw a penalty (and a fine).

Now is the time to push the mobile QBs. Two teams decided to do so already.

Please learn the rules. Hitting at or below the knees and helmet to helmet have nothing whatsoever to do with mobile QBs. Those are essentially in the pocket rules. Once they turn into a runner you can do either one.

MEGA SWATT

01-19-2013, 12:37 AM

I wish we could pick up Vick.

High risk, high reward......but I'd love to see it. However, we have a boring, delusional owner/GM/Coach.

So is Vince Young.

:kitten:

Who?
idonno::um::crazy:

mussop

01-19-2013, 01:09 AM

Zac dysert please!

Man I want us to draft him bad!

GP

01-19-2013, 01:39 AM

Man I want us to draft him bad!

At the 3:12 mark, he throws from his own goal line...and places the ball into the hands of his receiver, in stride, and it hit the receiver's hands at the FIFTY.

50-yard bomb, in stride, with touch on the pass. And he just flicked his arm, he wasn't even planting and heaving it. It was amazing.

Please learn the rules. Hitting at or below the knees and helmet to helmet have nothing whatsoever to do with mobile QBs. Those are essentially in the pocket rules. Once they turn into a runner you can do either one.

Yeah, mobile QB's can get abused in this league. It's why defenses can hit Michael Vick differently than they can non-mobile QB's. Once you get out of the pocket and scramble you basically become a RB.

GP

01-19-2013, 02:44 AM

Cutler ran right up the LOS before passing the ball, prompting Dobbins to come flying in, in an attempt to stop Cutler from possibly rushing with the ball.

Now take a truly MOBILE QB in that same situation...you lay off that guy, as he's racing to the LOS...and you don't know if he's going to pass or pull the ball down and run with it.

So you have to pretty much give that QB a free play in that situation. You hit him below the knees or in the head, if he indeed throws the ball instead of running with it...and you're tacking on 15 to that play.

Yeah, like I said before: The rules have been changed and it gives an advantage to a QB who can escape the pocket and maneuver near or at the LOS. He can basically freeze a defensive player in his tracks because of the potential for a penalty.

infantrycak

01-19-2013, 05:50 AM

Cutler ran right up the LOS before passing the ball, prompting Dobbins to come flying in, in an attempt to stop Cutler from possibly rushing with the ball.

No Cutler ran past the LOS which is why there were off-setting penalties. He was in the act of passing which made him a defenseless player. If he had tucked the ball, i.e. attempted to be a rusher, Dobbins could have laid him out without a penalty or fine.

Honoring Earl 34

01-19-2013, 01:11 PM

i just thought of this and had to post it somewhere .

A QB has got to be a bit of a diva . When they get touched late they throw a bit of a hissy . Why ... cause in there mind their to important to scratch , they believe the only chance the other team has , is to take them out . Oh , and don't run the wrong route cause we worked on that time and time again .

The other end of the spectrum is HWNSNBS . He got beat like Randall Cobb vs Larry Holmes . What did he do ? He got up and took it some more . Why ... he knew he couldn't gripe cause he was a slacker . He wasn't going to decide the outcome of a game unless of course it was a pick six . I'm thinking this is where Matt s at . He doesn't act like he should be on the same stage as Brady .

The winner score fewer than 28 points 22 times.
Some of the scores were not from the offense.

There had been 29 non-offensive TDs and 5 safeties scored, most of them by the winning team. (I did a rough count so the numbers may be off a bit.)

This doesn't include turnovers that set up the other team to score quickly.

There were at least 3 instances where the winning team scored fewer offensive points.

So, do you need an elite defense or an elite QB?
It looks like a toss-up to me.

Well we defiantly don't have an elite QB so lets build this defense into an elite one. :whip:

76Texan

01-19-2013, 02:51 PM

Well we defiantly don't have an elite QB so lets build this defense into an elite one. :whip:

I remember the time when all the guys on defense were saying that they look forward to take this defense to the number one spot.

Big Fail, LOL!

thunderkyss

01-19-2013, 03:32 PM

That's what the Ravens did with Dilfer, and he may be the only QB ever in the history of the NFL that succeeded that we can compare Matt to. So yeah, lets build a defense for next year that wont give up over ten points a game and then maybe, just maybe we would be able to overcome Matt's poor play.

Matt doesn't "normally" play poor, I don't understand why all of a sudden, he has "never" been able to play at this level. He's had some bad games...

Schaub is not a game manager, like Difer. To me, he's more like Warner without the arm.

Lucky

01-19-2013, 03:43 PM

Schaub is not a game manager, like Difer. To me, he's more like Warner without the arm.
He's also like Kaepernick. Without the speed and agility.

thunderkyss

01-19-2013, 03:48 PM

He's also like Kaepernick. Without the speed and agility.

Good point, all is not lost.

Oh.. unless you're saying Warner was nothing but an arm. Like Carr.

Lucky

01-19-2013, 03:53 PM

Good point, all is not lost.

Oh.. unless you're saying Warner was nothing but an arm. Like Carr.
Schaub is like Carr. Without the hair.

He's like Michael Vick. Without the dogs.

Like Dan Marino. Without the Isotoner commercials.

Someone find me a meme generator.

silvrhand

01-19-2013, 04:45 PM

Someone find me a meme generator.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33644869.jpg

silvrhand

01-19-2013, 04:47 PM

Schaub is like Carr. Without the hair.

He's like Michael Vick. Without the dogs.

Like Dan Marino. Without the Isotoner commercials.

Someone find me a meme generator.

Ask for a memegenerator and you shall have it!

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33644941.jpg

Premier

01-20-2013, 02:05 AM

Schaub is not a game manager, like Difer. To me, he's more like Warner without the arm.

the only comparison between schaub and warner is that schaub should be sacking groceries somewhere.. thats where it ends..

thunderkyss

01-20-2013, 09:41 AM

the only comparison between schaub and warner is that schaub should be sacking groceries somewhere.. thats where it ends..

Really? I understand the hate & emotions stemming from his recent performance, but over his career, Schaub has played at a high level & we've won a bunch of games because of him.

If I had to choose a QB to run this system, Schaub would not be my first choice either. However, he is the one that Kubiak chose & he's been successful so far.

Unless his injury is affecting his play, there's no reason to believe he can't get back to that level.

We need to stop blaming Schaub for the four losses of 2012. In each of the losses the running game didn't show up & the defense gave up a lot of yards and a lot of points. I know we think Kubiak is an id1ot, but he's right. They were all team losses & there was a lot of room for improvement across the whole team.

Lucky

01-20-2013, 10:12 AM

We need to stop blaming Schaub for the four losses of 2012. In each of the losses the running game didn't show up & the defense gave up a lot of yards and a lot of points.
In the Vikings game, Schaub led the offense to 6 points. Two field goals. Not winning any game with that type of performance. And the defense allowed 345 yards and 23 points. Not "a lot" considering the offense could not sustain a drive.

In the game at Indy, "special" teams allowed one touchdown and a Schaub interception setup another. The Colts offense registered 265 yards of total offense. The defense has played better, but it was the offense's inability to protect the football and score TDs rather than FGs that led to that loss.

Unless his injury is affecting his play, there's no reason to believe he can't get back to that level.
If not injury, then what was affecting Schaub's play late in the season? Are the Texans going to waste next season trying to determine whether Schaub has a chronic foot condition that will only worsen? I realize that his contract forces Schaub on the roster. But there needs to be some contingency plan, for 2013 and beyond. The "beyond" is why the Texans should look very hard at this QB cllass.

Goldensilence

01-20-2013, 10:16 AM

lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!

Classic Vinnyism, man! :thumbup

We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.

Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.

Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.

The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.

However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.

The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.

I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.

This. I've heard the claims too that insert X qb is going to change the way the QB position is played. Haven't seen it full-time yet.

I think that's a big Reason this year Cam Newton had early problems. Teams were better prepared for the running element of his game.

I said it early on in the draft RG3 is going to have a spectacular rookie campaign, but the real test is going to be seen next year and if his body can handle the beating that it took this year. He's also going to have to bounce back from major knee surgery to boot now.

To me, Aaron Rodgers is pretty much what you want in a prototypical QB right now. Guy has a quick release, tall enough to see over the line and while his running game doesn't give defenses Cam or RG3 nightmares; he can tuck the ball then run for a first down and throws very accurately on the move.

I don't think we NEED a mobile QB on the level of RG3 or CAm, but closer to the mold of Rodgers. Just a guy who can avoid pressure in the pocket, can throw accurately on the move, and I'd really like a stronger arm to get the ball into tighter windows.

Ugh on the Manziel love. Congrats on the first season, now go repeat it with the huge bullseye that the Heisman gave him. I think you're going to see a lot more QB spying on him next year by LBers and teams are going to dare him to throw more often as opposed to let him run free like he was able to this year.

Lucky

01-20-2013, 10:35 AM

I don't think we NEED a mobile QB on the level of RG3 or CAm, but closer to the mold of Rodgers. Just a guy who can avoid pressure in the pocket, can throw accurately on the move, and I'd really like a stronger arm to get the ball into tighter windows.
A QB that can make some "off schedule" plays. Schaub is the least mobile QB in the NFL. He can't get out of his own way. I am trying to remember when I saw a QB as immobile as Schaub. Kerry Collins? Chris Chandler? Dan Marino after he tore his Achilles tendon? Schaub was never athletic for the position. But he wasn't the statue he became in the last part of 2012. Schaub's lack of agility combined with the inexperience on the O-line right side was a bad combination.

Goldensilence

01-20-2013, 10:37 AM

A QB that can make some "off schedule" plays. Schaub is the least mobile QB in the NFL. He can't get out of his own way. I am trying to remember when I saw a QB as immobile as Schaub. Kerry Collins? Chris Chandler? Dan Marino after he tore his Achilles tendon? Schaub was never athletic for the position. But he wasn't the statue he became in the last part of 2012. Schaub's lack of agility combined with the inexperience on the O-line right side was a bad combination.

Drew Bledsoe? Specially in his last Dallas days.

Lucky

01-20-2013, 12:00 PM

Drew Bledsoe? Specially in his last Dallas days.
That's a good one. Bledsoe and Schaub are a pretty good comparison, though Drew had the bigger arm.

thunderkyss

01-20-2013, 12:19 PM

In the Vikings game, Schaub led the offense to 6 points. Two field goals. Not winning any game with that type of performance. And the defense allowed 345 yards and 23 points. Not "a lot" considering the offense could not sustain a drive.

Foster carried the ball 10 times for 15 yards. Tate had 4 carries for 17 yards. We're not wining with that kind of run game. We're not staying on the field with that kind of running. Our leading receiver had 7 catches for 97 yards. Our second leading receiver had 3 catches for 27.

In the game at Indy, "special" teams allowed one touchdown and a Schaub interception setup another. The Colts offense registered 265 yards of total offense. The defense has played better, but it was the offense's inability to protect the football and score TDs rather than FGs that led to that loss.

Schaub's 2 INTs had a bigger role in that loss no doubt. But that game was also a big mismanagement problem as well.

If not injury, then what was affecting Schaub's play late in the season? Are the Texans going to waste next season trying to determine whether Schaub has a chronic foot condition that will only worsen? I realize that his contract forces Schaub on the roster. But there needs to be some contingency plan, for 2013 and beyond. The "beyond" is why the Texans should look very hard at this QB cllass.

I think the Texans should already know if his foot is a problem or not. If it is, they should have taken steps this season towards replacing him. I also do not see his contract as a hindrance anymore than Alex Smith's contract or Matt Flynn's. If they don't think we can win (Minny at home, Indy on the road) then he shouldn't be on the roster.

But Schaub played "relatively" well @ Indy & vs the Bengals, 66% & 75% completions. The Red Zone issues again are more than just QB issues.

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 12:24 PM

Drew Bledsoe? Specially in his last Dallas days.

The same Drew Bledsoe in Dallas that was eventually replaced by the more mobile Romo. I guess we got hope it could eventually happen here as well.

thunderkyss

01-20-2013, 12:52 PM

A QB that can make some "off schedule" plays. Schaub is the least mobile QB in the NFL. He can't get out of his own way. I am trying to remember when I saw a QB as immobile as Schaub. Kerry Collins? Chris Chandler? Dan Marino after he tore his Achilles tendon? Schaub was never athletic for the position. But he wasn't the statue he became in the last part of 2012. Schaub's lack of agility combined with the inexperience on the O-line right side was a bad combination.

I do not disagree. I'm not sold that Shaub is less mobile than in previous seasons. I am not sold that his ability to make plays off-shedule has been diminished. I never thought he was any good in those departments to begin with.

But I believed we could win a Super Bowl with him before 2012 & I haven't seen anything to make me feel different. I do believe I may be understating his injury, I'll try to go back & look for evidence over the next few weeks, but watching the games, & I've watched several of them several times, I don't remember thinking he had an issue. Really, no one has until recently & the "idea" is spreading like a wild fire, with no evidence.

Lucky

01-20-2013, 01:30 PM

But I believed we could win a Super Bowl with him before 2012 & I haven't seen anything to make me feel different. I do believe I may be understating his injury, I'll try to go back & look for evidence over the next few weeks, but watching the games, & I've watched several of them several times, I don't remember thinking he had an issue. Really, no one has until recently & the "idea" is spreading like a wild fire, with no evidence.
I think Schaub's play over the last 6 games or so is damning evidence. You might want to look at these yet again, if you have a strong stomach. There's no way the Texans are winning a Super Bowl with Schaub performing like this.

Lucky

01-20-2013, 01:33 PM

I also do not see his contract as a hindrance anymore than Alex Smith's contract or Matt Flynn's.
Well, you should do a little research on these contracts. Because if you think the Smith and Flynn contracts are similar to Schaub's, you are poorly informed.

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 01:46 PM

I do not disagree. I'm not sold that Shaub is less mobile than in previous seasons. I am not sold that his ability to make plays off-shedule has been diminished. I never thought he was any good in those departments to begin with.

But I believed we could win a Super Bowl with him before 2012 & I haven't seen anything to make me feel different. I do believe I may be understating his injury, I'll try to go back & look for evidence over the next few weeks, but watching the games, & I've watched several of them several times, I don't remember thinking he had an issue. Really, no one has until recently & the "idea" is spreading like a wild fire, with no evidence.

I simply do not believe there is an injury to be found. The owner in his recent interview had a perfect opportunity to make an excuse for Schaub's poor play to diffuse the criticism & he did not. So add the owner to the list of teammates, coaches, & Schaub himself who not claiming he is suffering from any sort of injury. If you alone find an injury to schaub then you could possibly find a golden egg or the fountain of youth as well. The injury thoery is only spreading like wild fire amongst the fans because I gave yet to see mentioned by any media source. Most media sources & fans, from what I have encountered, seem to be chalking it up to 1 issue...bad QB play. Plain & simple. Let's just hope he gets it turned around next season is all I can really say.

Lucky

01-20-2013, 01:48 PM

If you alone find an injury to schaub then you could possibly find a golden egg or the fountain of youth as well. The injury thoery is only spreading like wild fire amongst the fans because I gave yet to see mentioned by any media source.
So you believe NFL organizations are completely forthcoming with injuries? Maybe you should be the one looking for myths and monsters?

HJam72

01-20-2013, 01:51 PM

If nobody in the Texans organization will even speak of an injury to a certain player, then that player probably needs brain surgery... :jk:

Playoffs

01-20-2013, 02:03 PM

...Schaub is the least mobile QB in the NFL. He can't get out of his own way. I am trying to remember when I saw a QB as immobile as Schaub...

I say Dante. Dan Pastorini talks about telling his O-line in the playoffs that it was up to them, because he would not be physically able to move out of the pocket.

Someone said you could smoke a cigarette between the time Schaub decides to run and the time his body actually starts moving. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 02:13 PM

So you believe NFL organizations are completely forthcoming with injuries? Maybe you should be the one looking for myths and monsters?

During the season, yes to a degree. Depending on the coach some injury reports include quite a few players, but most of it is fluff & the players will play. Others try to downplay them & keep it a secret, but its REQUIRED by all to list injured players or the team could face penalties from the NFL.

Offseason, yes as well. Please tell me what a team has to gain by not informing anyone of a players injury that effected that players play who is taking tons of criticism for poor play? Answer...nothing to gain. No one is even hinting at an injury except those desperate to defend poor play from Schaub. I used to be one of the biggest defenders of Schaub, but I resorted to facts & stats as opposed to phantom injuries. If that's what makes some feel warm & fuzzy inside, then so be it but I will stick to the facts until something concrete from a worthy source is actually revealed. Until then, I wish you happy hunting in your search for that pot of gold.

Jules Winnfield

01-20-2013, 02:38 PM

I simply do not believe there is an injury to be found. The owner in his recent interview had a perfect opportunity to make an excuse for Schaub's poor play to diffuse the criticism & he did not. So add the owner to the list of teammates, coaches, & Schaub himself who not claiming he is suffering from any sort of injury. If you alone find an injury to schaub then you could possibly find a golden egg or the fountain of youth as well. The injury thoery is only spreading like wild fire amongst the fans because I gave yet to see mentioned by any media source. Most media sources & fans, from what I have encountered, seem to be chalking it up to 1 issue...bad QB play. Plain & simple. Let's just hope he gets it turned around next season is all I can really say.

its quite pathetic how some schaub apologists are relegated to finding phantom injuries in order to rationalize matt schaub's piss poor play.

It's pathetic how some posters never made it past a 5th grade reading level.

The guy you quoted, the Schaub apologist, is saying there is no injury. The guys hating on Schaub are saying it is because of his injury that he'll never play at a high level again.

The Schaub apologist you quoted is also not making excuses for Schaub's play. He's saying Schaub sucked & has to play better. No exuses.

Jules Winnfield

01-20-2013, 06:14 PM

It's pathetic how some posters never made it past a 5th grade reading level.

The guy you quoted, the Schaub apologist, is saying there is no injury. The guys hating on Schaub are saying it is because of his injury that he'll never play at a high level again.

The Schaub apologist you quoted is also not making excuses for Schaub's play. He's saying Schaub sucked & has to play better. No exuses.

:mariopalm: :kubepalm: :wadepalm::vincepalm:

I was agreeing with the poster i quoted. That's why i augmented his post with mine.

If you werent so quick to hate on a fellow poster you would have recognized it.

Its quite pathetic a 40 year old such as yourself didnt have the reading comprehension to figure it out.

Sorry you didnt make it past 4th grade.

Your mother must be so proud.

Lucky

01-20-2013, 06:22 PM

...but its REQUIRED by all to list injured players or the team could face penalties from the NFL.
That is if the player misses or is limited in practice. A player can participate fully in practice, but still have physical issues that hinder his performance in a game. That is what we are discussing.

And let's cut out the personal insults. Nobody that's smarter than a 5th grader posts here.

thunderkyss

01-20-2013, 06:25 PM

:mariopalm: :kubepalm: :wadepalm::vincepalm:

If you werent so quick to hate on a fellow poster you would have recognized it.
.

The point is still the same, none of the Schaub supporters are pointing to his injury as an excuse. It is the haters pointing to his supposed injury as reason to get rid of him.

Which is what he was arguing. & if you are augmenting tru80's post, then you're saying you agree Schaub can & will play better in the future.

thunderkyss

01-20-2013, 06:29 PM

That is if the player misses or is limited in practice. A player can participate fully in practice, but still have physical issues that hinder his performance in a game. That is what we are discussing.

Didn't the Jets get in trouble for not reporting Favre's injury, even though he participated in practice & played in all their games?

I believe it is also the reason Belichick fills out such a thorough injury report, since he got his hands slapped for the same thing.

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 07:22 PM

That is if the player misses or is limited in practice. A player can participate fully in practice, but still have physical issues that hinder his performance in a game. That is what we are discussing.

And let's cut out the personal insults. Nobody that's smarter than a 5th grader posts here.

Actually you are incorrect concerning whether or not a player practices dictates if they go on the injury report or not. It's any significant injury that could cause a game to be missed regardless of player practicing or not. The link is a story of how the Ravens got their hand slapped by the NFL for not reporting an Ed Reed injury despite him not missing any practices.

I don't recall mentioning anything about 5th grade....

thunderkyss

01-20-2013, 08:05 PM

I don't recall mentioning anything about 5th grade....

That was me. Got a little personal with Jules Winnfield.

CloakNNNdagger

01-20-2013, 08:10 PM

I simply do not believe there is an injury to be found. The owner in his recent interview had a perfect opportunity to make an excuse for Schaub's poor play to diffuse the criticism & he did not. So add the owner to the list of teammates, coaches, & Schaub himself who not claiming he is suffering from any sort of injury. If you alone find an injury to schaub then you could possibly find a golden egg or the fountain of youth as well. The injury thoery is only spreading like wild fire amongst the fans because I gave yet to see mentioned by any media source. Most media sources & fans, from what I have encountered, seem to be chalking it up to 1 issue...bad QB play. Plain & simple. Let's just hope he gets it turned around next season is all I can really say.

During the season, yes to a degree. Depending on the coach some injury reports include quite a few players, but most of it is fluff & the players will play. Others try to downplay them & keep it a secret, but its REQUIRED by all to list injured players or the team could face penalties from the NFL.

Offseason, yes as well. Please tell me what a team has to gain by not informing anyone of a players injury that effected that players play who is taking tons of criticism for poor play? Answer...nothing to gain. No one is even hinting at an injury except those desperate to defend poor play from Schaub. I used to be one of the biggest defenders of Schaub, but I resorted to facts & stats as opposed to phantom injuries. If that's what makes some feel warm & fuzzy inside, then so be it but I will stick to the facts until something concrete from a worthy source is actually revealed. Until then, I wish you happy hunting in your search for that pot of gold.

its quite pathetic how some schaub apologists are relegated to finding phantom injuries in order to rationalize matt schaub's piss poor play.

Evidently, we have two MB members that are as naive about NFL injuries and NFL Injury Reports as they are new to TexansTalk. The NFL is the only game that requires such a report weekly........not for any benefit of the teams or their opponents but for the benefit of the boys in Vegas. The biggest running joke about the injury report isn't its accuracy but its reason for being in the first place. No other professional sport requires an injury report like the NFL and the assumption has always been that it exists solely to aid the business of gambling on NFL games, a huge (and underrated) driver of the NFL's popularity. Injury reports make it easier to feel safer about placing a bet. Those bets drive interest, and subsequently profit. The NFL puts so much importance on the Injury Report, that they fine teams a whole whopping $20,000 for not reporting injuries (that'll really break an NFL team's piggy bank) .......and the 19 times that has happened in the last 15 years were all because the players went stupidly public with significant injuries that their teams were hiding. Coaches have ALWAYS screwed around with their Injury Reports. [ Here's a pertinent 2007 USA TODAY article to that effect: Analysis: Injury report is game within the game (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-11-22-injury-report-cover_N.htm)]

[And for a recent article that also tells it like it is: John Harbaugh sees 'no value' in NFL injury reports (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000089228/article/john-harbaugh-sees-no-value-in-nfl-injury-reports)]

I have taken care of my share of Oilers and Texans players and their families over the years.........I could tell you stories of injuries that were kept hidden that would have your hair standing on end. When presenting my observations and opinions on Schaub and his foot, whether one may agree or disagree with them, those opinions are the furthest thing from a apologist standpoint.

Finally, you cannot see any reason that the team from the top down at this point in time would have to not admit to a post Lisfranc repaired foot specifically negatively affecting Schaub's performance? I would suggest that you give it one more good ole try for the Gipper.

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 08:13 PM

That was me. Got a little personal with Jules Winnfield.

I hear ya. At least they give warnings over here. The HT MB mods are letting the power go to their heads & hand out punishments w/out warnings. Then they don't want to explain anything & treat people like children. It's pure silliness over there.:choke:

steelbtexan

01-20-2013, 08:21 PM

Evidently, we have two MB members that are as naive about NFL injuries and NFL Injury Reports as they are new to TexansTalk. The NFL is the only game that requires such a report weekly........not for any benefit of the teams or their opponents but for the benefit of the boys in Vegas. The biggest running joke about the injury report isn't its accuracy but its reason for being in the first place. No other professional sport requires an injury report like the NFL and the assumption has always been that it exists solely to aid the business of gambling on NFL games, a huge (and underrated) driver of the NFL's popularity. Injury reports make it easier to feel safer about placing a bet. Those bets drive interest, and subsequently profit. The NFL puts so much importance on the Injury Report, that they fine teams a whole whopping $20,000 for not reporting injuries (that'll really break an NFL team's piggy bank) .......and the 19 times that has happened in the last 15 years were all because the players went stupidly public with significant injuries that their teams were hiding. Coaches have ALWAYS screwed around with their Injury Reports. [ Here's a pertinent 2007 USA TODAY article to that effect: Analysis: Injury report is game within the game (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-11-22-injury-report-cover_N.htm)]

[And for a recent article that also tells it like it is: John Harbaugh sees 'no value' in NFL injury reports (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000089228/article/john-harbaugh-sees-no-value-in-nfl-injury-reports)]

I have taken care of my share of Oilers and Texans players and their families over the years.........I could tell you stories of injuries that were kept hidden that would have your hair standing on end. When presenting my observations and opinions on Schaub and his foot, whether one may agree or disagree with them, those opinions are the furthest thing from a apologist standpoint.

Finally, you cannot see any reason that the team from the top down at this point in time would have to not admit to a post Lisfranc repaired foot specifically negatively affecting Schaub's performance? I would suggest that you give it one more good ole try for the Gipper.

$$$$, 29 milion garunteed reasons.

The Texans will never admit that Schaub is hurt because the will look like fools for extending Schaub and giving a QB who is barely functional in the Texans offense that much garunteed $$$$.

That takes egg on face to a whole new level, people inside the Texans org should be looking themselves in the mirror and asking the tough questions after a mistake like this is made. Be it, the medical staff, GM, coaches etc....

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 08:28 PM

Evidently, we have two MB members that are as naive about NFL injuries and NFL Injury Reports as they are new to TexansTalk. The NFL is the only game that requires such a report weekly........not for any benefit of the teams or their opponents but for the benefit of the boys in Vegas. The biggest running joke about the injury report isn't its accuracy but its reason for being in the first place. No other professional sport requires an injury report like the NFL and the assumption has always been that it exists solely to aid the business of gambling on NFL games, a huge (and underrated) driver of the NFL's popularity. Injury reports make it easier to feel safer about placing a bet. Those bets drive interest, and subsequently profit. The NFL puts so much importance on the Injury Report, that they fine teams a whole whopping $20,000 for not reporting injuries (that'll really break an NFL team's piggy bank) .......and the 19 times that has happened in the last 15 years were all because the players went stupidly public with significant injuries that their teams were hiding. Coaches have ALWAYS screwed around with their Injury Reports. [ Here's a pertinent 2007 USA TODAY article to that effect: Analysis: Injury report is game within the game (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-11-22-injury-report-cover_N.htm)]

[And for a recent article that also tells it like it is: John Harbaugh sees 'no value' in NFL injury reports (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000089228/article/john-harbaugh-sees-no-value-in-nfl-injury-reports)]

I have taken care of my share of Oilers and Texans players and their families over the years.........I could tell you stories of injuries that were kept hidden that would have your hair standing on end. When presenting my observations and opinions on Schaub and his foot, whether one may agree or disagree with them, those opinions are the furthest thing from a apologist standpoint.

Finally, you cannot see any reason that the team from the top down at this point in time would have to not admit to a post Lisfranc repaired foot specifically negatively affecting Schaub's performance? I would suggest that you give it one more good ole try for the Gipper.

I'm well aware of why the injury report exists in the NFL. Its intent was to keep the gamblers away from the players after an incident that happened in the 40's if I recall correctly. So please dont judge my knowledge about the NFL, the Players, or the Texans based on my post count. I'm not saying I know it all, but I do my best to stay informed despite my post count not reflecting that to you.

As far as Schaub, I think I was clear that I don't believe an injury exists because Schaub hasn't displayed anything noticeable in his delivery, when he plants to throw, or when he scrambles. Not to say it isn't there, but at some point during the season it would've or should've been reported. Plain & simple. The Texans have not been known to risk players health, so trotting Schaub out to practice everyday & hiding his injury does not seem to be how they handle their business. Since then multiple members of the Texans, owner on down, have been questioned about Schaubs play & not once has injury even been alluded to. I'm not going to claim an injury exists w/ 0 evidence just because a player played poorly. Give me a little more from a worthy source & I will gladly entertain is what I'm saying.

steelbtexan

01-20-2013, 09:03 PM

I'm well aware of why the injury report exists in the NFL. Its intent was to keep the gamblers away from the players after an incident that happened in the 40's if I recall correctly. So please dont judge my knowledge about the NFL, the Players, or the Texans based on my post count. I'm not saying I know it all, but I do my best to stay informed despite my post count not reflecting that to you.

As far as Schaub, I think I was clear that I don't believe an injury exists because Schaub hasn't displayed anything noticeable in his delivery, when he plants to throw, or when he scrambles. Not to say it isn't there, but at some point during the season it would've or should've been reported. Plain & simple. The Texans have not been known to risk players health, so trotting Schaub out to practice everyday & hiding his injury does not seem to be how they handle their business. Since then multiple members of the Texans, owner on down, have been questioned about Schaubs play & not once has injury even been alluded to. I'm not going to claim an injury exists w/ 0 evidence just because a player played poorly. Give me a little more from a worthy source & I will gladly entertain is what I'm saying.

I dont need a source, my eyes tell me his footwork is terrible, Pastorini said as much. His footwork was much better before the injury. Coincedence, I think not. If you cant see this then there's no need to continue this discussion.

This is the way the Texans have always done business from their inception. Remember Boselli, he was supposed to not play in the preseason and be ready for the regular season. He never played a down for the Texans. DDW, he was never on the injury report and then 2 wks later he developed a bone on bone injury. (Yea right) AJ's 1st hyperextended knee/hurt hamstring/ankle injury that needed surgery, Now Schaub's foot. all of these injuries have been un/under reported. Are you starting to see a pattern here?

amazing80

01-20-2013, 09:25 PM

Im all for replacing Schaub, but really there is no good prospect worth a damn this year, unless we mortgage the future for Geno and even he is shady IMO. I think this year you let it ride, improve the roster and decide if Schaub or Yates is the guy if not draft one next season. We still need a better number 2 wr, ilb and nt, not to mention depth at RT, de, olb and s.

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 09:28 PM

I dont need a source, my eyes tell me his footwork is terrible, Pastorini said as much. His footwork was much better before the injury. Coincedence, I think not. If you cant see this then there's no need to continue this discussion.

This is the way the Texans have always done business from their inception. Remember Boselli, he was supposed to not play in the preseason and be ready for the regular season. He never played a down for the Texans. DDW, he was never on the injury report and then 2 wks later he developed a bone on bone injury. (Yea right) AJ's 1st hyperextended knee/hurt hamstring/ankle injury that needed surgery, Now Schaub's foot. all of these injuries have been un/under reported. Are you starting to see a pattern here?

I think the conspiracy theory is a bit much to be honest. EVERYONE knew Boselli probably wouldn't ever see the field despite what was being reported, but it was reported none the less. Not hidden. Domanick Davis was every bit reported, but considering he was placed on the IR BEFORE the season then there was never an opportunity to put him on injury report. Here's a story on Davis to refresh our memories on how it transpired.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=dominic%20davis%20injury%20report&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsports.espn.go.com%2Fnfl%2Fnews%2 Fstory%3Fid%3D2570336&ei=UKT8UJPIO-Xq2QXL14GwCw&usg=AFQjCNGdDxu8DEAyHqxYvYr3f7vAmZteyw&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2U

AJ's injuries may have been underreported, but once again it all goes back to the fact that it was reported.

All of your examples are hardly similar to what you are claiming that the Texans knowingly hid an injury & put Schaubs health in jeopardy in the process. Considering your claims did not prove that that is how they handle their business please forgive me for having my doubts that this conspiracy took place to justify Schaubs poor play only in a handful games late in the season. Bad footwork could've been an indication of injury, but that could easily be attributed to happy feet or a breakdown in his mechanics & fundamentals simply because he no longer trusts his o-line like in years past. Maybe you all are correct & it will come out in due time, but I think I will wait for before jumping on that bandwagon & claiming injury just to mask poor play.

steelbtexan

01-20-2013, 09:40 PM

I'm not claiming Injury is sole responsible for his poor play. But due to the injury I'm saying this is as good as it's going to get.

As far as the injury report goes, Yea Gary has always been a model of honesty/integity when it comes to the injury report. Just like all of the other HC's in the NFL. LOL

Garys mentor, Shaany let his QB play on a bum leg in the playoffs, but Garys different etc...

Lets just agree to disagree and move on. Nothing short of Gary coming over to your house and personally telling you is going to change your mind. I mean a respected surgeon is telling you the medical dynamics and you still will have none of this facts thingy. I should've known that your mind wouldn't change and I should've laughed and moved on.

steelbtexan

01-20-2013, 09:44 PM

Im all for replacing Schaub, but really there is no good prospect worth a damn this year, unless we mortgage the future for Geno and even he is shady IMO. I think this year you let it ride, improve the roster and decide if Schaub or Yates is the guy if not draft one next season. We still need a better number 2 wr, ilb and nt, not to mention depth at RT, de, olb and s.

Other than Bridgewater next yrs class doesn't look too good either. I really like Bray and Dysert in the 2nd rd. Both have strong arms and are mobile enough.

What do you think about Bray/Dysert, or any other QB that you think might be a good fit?

MojoX

01-20-2013, 09:51 PM

Evidently, we have two MB members that are as naive about NFL injuries and NFL Injury Reports as they are new to TexansTalk. The NFL is the only game that requires such a report weekly........not for any benefit of the teams or their opponents but for the benefit of the boys in Vegas. The biggest running joke about the injury report isn't its accuracy but its reason for being in the first place. No other professional sport requires an injury report like the NFL and the assumption has always been that it exists solely to aid the business of gambling on NFL games, a huge (and underrated) driver of the NFL's popularity. Injury reports make it easier to feel safer about placing a bet. Those bets drive interest, and subsequently profit. The NFL puts so much importance on the Injury Report, that they fine teams a whole whopping $20,000 for not reporting injuries (that'll really break an NFL team's piggy bank) .......and the 19 times that has happened in the last 15 years were all because the players went stupidly public with significant injuries that their teams were hiding. Coaches have ALWAYS screwed around with their Injury Reports. [ Here's a pertinent 2007 USA TODAY article to that effect: Analysis: Injury report is game within the game (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-11-22-injury-report-cover_N.htm)]

[And for a recent article that also tells it like it is: John Harbaugh sees 'no value' in NFL injury reports (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000089228/article/john-harbaugh-sees-no-value-in-nfl-injury-reports)]

I have taken care of my share of Oilers and Texans players and their families over the years.........I could tell you stories of injuries that were kept hidden that would have your hair standing on end. When presenting my observations and opinions on Schaub and his foot, whether one may agree or disagree with them, those opinions are the furthest thing from a apologist standpoint.

Finally, you cannot see any reason that the team from the top down at this point in time would have to not admit to a post Lisfranc repaired foot specifically negatively affecting Schaub's performance? I would suggest that you give it one more good ole try for the Gipper.
I've been on this forum long enough to know that when you say a mofo is injured, that mofo is injured. Your observations have been vindicated far too many times.

There were times Schaub wasn't even following through on his throws. Either because the pain is still there or his confidence in his foot isn't back, Schaub was favoring that foot.

amazing80

01-20-2013, 09:55 PM

Other than Bridgewater next yrs class doesn't look too good either. I really like Bray and Dysert in the 2nd rd. Both have strong arms and are mobile enough.

What do you think about Bray/Dysert, or any other QB that you think might be a good fit?

Honestly you can make a case for any qb and you can make a case why NOT to take a qb, the best part is though, almost ALL of the qbs we would be interested in will be in the senior bowl this week. Ryan Nassib, Mike Glennon, Zac Dysert, Tyler Wilson, EJ Manuel AND Landry Jones all in the senior bowl 9practices start tomorrow!!!!)

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 09:58 PM

I'm not claiming Injury is sole responsible for his poor play. But due to the injury I'm saying this is as good as it's going to get.

As far as the injury report goes, Yea Gary has always been a model of honesty/integity when it comes to the injury report. Just like all of the other HC's in the NFL. LOL

Garys mentor, Shaany let his QB play on a bum leg in the playoffs, but Garys different etc...

Lets just agree to disagree and move on. Nothing short of Gary coming over to your house and personally telling you is going to change your mind. I mean a respected surgeon is telling you the medical dynamics and you still will have none of this facts thingy. I should've known that your mind wouldn't change and I should've laughed and moved on.

Lol! I never said that HC's don't manipulate the report. In fact I said quite the contrary. And once again, you allude to injury that was reported concerning Shanahan. Hardly the same case that you are making, but you are correct I will wait to hear it from Schaub, McNair, kubiak, assistant coaches, teammates, or even his wife before I acknowledge that that is the sole reason he played poorly. No disrespect to the doctor, but I would appreciate information from a source close to Schaub or the Texans.

Did Gary personally visit & tell you injury was the problem...please do tell. If not, then you are correct...let's agree to disagree & move on.

steelbtexan

01-20-2013, 10:09 PM

Lol! I never said that HC's don't manipulate the report. In fact I said quite the contrary. And once again, you allude to injury that was reported concerning Shanahan. Hardly the same case that you are making, but you are correct I will wait to hear it from Schaub, McNair, kubiak, assistant coaches, teammates, or even his wife before I acknowledge that that is the sole reason he played poorly. No disrespect to the doctor, but I would appreciate information from a source close to Schaub or the Texans.

Did Gary personally visit & tell you injury was the problem...please do tell. If not, then you are correct...let's agree to disagree & move on.

No problem I will give the Texans a call tomorrow. Who would you like to hear from?

BoB,Gary,Rick, Dr.Lowe or one of the parking attendants?

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 10:14 PM

[/B]

No problem I will give the Texans a call tomorrow. Who would you like to hear from?

BoB,Gary,Rick, Dr.Lowe or one of the parking attendants?

Lol! Can you just put me on 3-way?! Anyone of them! :highfive:

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 10:32 PM

Other than Bridgewater next yrs class doesn't look too good either. I really like Bray and Dysert in the 2nd rd. Both have strong arms and are mobile enough.

What do you think about Bray/Dysert, or any other QB that you think might be a good fit?

Are you not a member of the Johnny Football fan club...assuming that he comes out early? Just for the record, I don't think he will. Considering some of the Texans fans lovefest for Keenum, one could only imagine how some would react if Johnny Football came to town. Thoughts...

steelbtexan

01-20-2013, 11:02 PM

I didn't include johnny Football because I dont think he will be coming out.

He has the it factor and I believe he will be somewhere between a taller Flutie and a more mobile Brees. Yeah he's going to be good but probably not top 10 draftable because of his height. Yes I would like the Texans to draft him.

The Kubiak can do no wrong part of the fanbase will probably jizz their computers. LOL

tru80texan

01-20-2013, 11:10 PM

I didn't include johnny Football because I dont think he will be coming out.

He has the it factor and I believe he will be somewhere between a taller Flutie and a more mobile Brees. Yeah he's going to be good but probably not top 10 draftable because of his height. Yes I would like the Texans to draft him.

The Kubiak can do no wrong part of the fanbase will probably jizz their computers. LOL

Thats a nasty but probably accurate assumption. Lol!

As far as the qb's you mentioned earlier, I kinda want to watch the kid from Miami Ohio(cant ever remember his name, sorry)more before making a judgement, but what I have read he sounds decent. Bray, I do not care for. His 40 time is garbage & he seems to have maturity issues even by his own admission. That's all we need is the next Ryan Leaf.

Either way they both seem to be projected to be 2-4th rounders. I'm not sure the Texans will take a qb that early. I do want to see more from EJ Manuel from FSU. He is projected to go in the lower rounds where I think the Texans may consider taking a qb.

thunderkyss

01-21-2013, 10:05 AM

$$$$, 29 milion garunteed reasons.

The Texans will never admit that Schaub is hurt because the will look like fools for extending Schaub and giving a QB who is barely functional in the Texans offense that much garunteed $$$$.

That takes egg on face to a whole new level, people inside the Texans org should be looking themselves in the mirror and asking the tough questions after a mistake like this is made. Be it, the medical staff, GM, coaches etc....

They gave Carr $8M, they franchised Dunta & started him & he had no intention of playing very hard.

We're the Houston Texans, we've had egg on our face several times, check out our prime time performances.

If I'm Texans' management & I'm staring at HFA and a red carpet path to the Super Bowl and gimp-boy is my best option at QB, we're going to change the way we do things in Houston. After his New England performance & Indy performance, we've got serious problems if we don't think our back up can play better. (disclaimer: this is if I were of the opinion that Matt has physical issues.)

Going forward, if they know of an injury as serious as what CnD suggests, they will definitely do something different this offseason

All I'm saying, is if we don't see anything "different" this offseason, then the FO does not believe Schaub has a any residual effects from his injury & we can expect the better Schaub in 2013.

tru80texan

01-21-2013, 10:30 AM

They gave Carr $8M, they franchised Dunta & started him & he had no intention of playing very hard.

We're the Houston Texans, we've had egg on our face several times, check out our prime time performances.

If I'm Texans' management & I'm staring at HFA and a red carpet path to the Super Bowl and gimp-boy is my best option at QB, we're going to change the way we do things in Houston. After his New England performance & Indy performance, we've got serious problems if we don't think our back up can play better. (disclaimer: this is if I were of the opinion that Matt has physical issues.)

Going forward, if they know of an injury as serious as what CnD suggests, they will definitely do something different this offseason

All I'm saying, is if we don't see anything "different" this offseason, then the FO does not believe Schaub has a any residual effects from his injury & we can expect the better Schaub in 2013.

Let's not forget 1 of the biggest egg in face signings that actually makes the Top 10 Worst FA Signings- Ahman Green.

I am a skeptic on the lingering injury theory, no offense to CnD, because Schaub did play adequate early in the season & there conveniently was no mention of injury during that time frame. I am all on board for hoping that he plays better in 2013 because this team will go as he goes. That's obvious. I honestly hope they do consider taking a qb this year or next in planning for the future, but I'm not holding my breathe because it does seem that Smith & Kubiak are normally a year or 2 late when addressing issues properly. The DC & WR positions seem to be perfect examples of that.

amazing80

01-21-2013, 10:38 AM

Some posters on another site I frequent suggest Schaub may have just had a "dead" arm the last 6 weeks. After the Jags and Lions over time games, he started falling off. He threw A LOT of passes prior to New England game and on. Coming off a year he did not finish and then throwing a career high at that point in the season could have led to a "dead" arm, similar to baseball pitchers. Not making excuses, as I am very vocal about not liking Schaub, but it brings another point of view to the discussion.

Also, I think I have found a VERY telling stat about qb mobility. Im talking about avoiding rushers in the pocket and moving side to side, front and back, no scrambling like RG3 or Wilson. The 3 cone drill is a VERY telling stat, even qbs who run poor 40 times and we deem unathletic, but better in the pocket compared to Schaub have good 3 cone times. Compared to Schaubs (league worse as a starter, from what I have found) 7.65

BullNation4Life

01-21-2013, 11:45 AM

Some posters on another site I frequent suggest Schaub may have just had a "dead" arm the last 6 weeks. After the Jags and Lions over time games, he started falling off. He threw A LOT of passes prior to New England game and on. Coming off a year he did not finish and then throwing a career high at that point in the season could have led to a "dead" arm, similar to baseball pitchers. Not making excuses, as I am very vocal about not liking Schaub, but it brings another point of view to the discussion.

I think there is allot of truth behind that theory. He looked like a pitcher with a dead arm, with no velocity, which if anybody understand mechanics of throwing, a pitcher and QB have very similar mechanics.

Schaub's balls in the beginning of the year had a little zip on them, and at the end the tended to float...

Honoring Earl 34

01-21-2013, 12:33 PM

Some posters on another site I frequent suggest Schaub may have just had a "dead" arm the last 6 weeks. After the Jags and Lions over time games, he started falling off. He threw A LOT of passes prior to New England game and on. Coming off a year he did not finish and then throwing a career high at that point in the season could have led to a "dead" arm, similar to baseball pitchers. Not making excuses, as I am very vocal about not liking Schaub, but it brings another point of view to the discussion.

Also, I think I have found a VERY telling stat about qb mobility. Im talking about avoiding rushers in the pocket and moving side to side, front and back, no scrambling like RG3 or Wilson. The 3 cone drill is a VERY telling stat, even qbs who run poor 40 times and we deem unathletic, but better in the pocket compared to Schaub have good 3 cone times. Compared to Schaubs (league worse as a starter, from what I have found) 7.65

What do OL run ? Brandon Brooks ran a 7.37 .

thunderkyss

01-21-2013, 12:46 PM

Some posters on another site I frequent suggest Schaub may have just had a "dead" arm the last 6 weeks. After the Jags and Lions over time games, he started falling off. He threw A LOT of passes prior to New England game and on. Coming off a year he did not finish and then throwing a career high at that point in the season could have led to a "dead" arm, similar to baseball pitchers. Not making excuses, as I am very vocal about not liking Schaub, but it brings another point of view to the discussion.

Maybe the Texans thought something like this. What does frustrate me, are those passes that we saw intercepted, when we tried to go down field. The Two in Indy especially. "Oops.... we threw an interception, let's never try that again" totally does not make any sense at all. None.

If at first you don't succeed, try try again.

76Texan

01-21-2013, 12:58 PM

Some posters on another site I frequent suggest Schaub may have just had a "dead" arm the last 6 weeks. After the Jags and Lions over time games, he started falling off. He threw A LOT of passes prior to New England game and on. Coming off a year he did not finish and then throwing a career high at that point in the season could have led to a "dead" arm, similar to baseball pitchers. Not making excuses, as I am very vocal about not liking Schaub, but it brings another point of view to the discussion.

Also, I think I have found a VERY telling stat about qb mobility. Im talking about avoiding rushers in the pocket and moving side to side, front and back, no scrambling like RG3 or Wilson. The 3 cone drill is a VERY telling stat, even qbs who run poor 40 times and we deem unathletic, but better in the pocket compared to Schaub have good 3 cone times. Compared to Schaubs (league worse as a starter, from what I have found) 7.65

Case Keenum ran a 6.87 as compared to Luck 6.80 and Kaepernick 6.85.
That is better than many QBs considered very mobile over the last couple of years.
Wilson 6.97; Dalton 6.93; Newton 6.92; Yates 6.96; Cousins 7.05

Honoring Earl 34

01-21-2013, 01:06 PM

Case Keenum ran a 6.87 as compared to Luck 6.80 and Kaepernick 6.85.
That is better than many QBs considered very mobile over the last couple of years.
Wilson 6.97; Dalton 6.93; Newton 6.92; Yates 6.96; Cousins 7.05

Matt's combine photo .

http://static.tumblr.com/avmpw3e/Xocl71v0m/sloth.gif

76Texan

01-21-2013, 01:13 PM

Matt's combine photo .

http://static.tumblr.com/avmpw3e/Xocl71v0m/sloth.gif

LOL, all that hair and nothing up top.:spin:

CretorFrigg

01-21-2013, 04:18 PM

Case Keenum ran a 6.87 as compared to Luck 6.80 and Kaepernick 6.85.
That is better than many QBs considered very mobile over the last couple of years.
Wilson 6.97; Dalton 6.93; Newton 6.92; Yates 6.96; Cousins 7.05

If that is true, then Schaub's 7.65 time is just sad. This was when he was young, before his injury. Now he's even slower and less mobile, if that's even possible.

76Texan

01-21-2013, 05:03 PM

If that is true, then Schaub's 7.65 time is just sad. This was when he was young, before his injury. Now he's even slower and less mobile, if that's even possible.

If it makes you feel better, Schaub outran Rivers and Brady in the 40 yard dash.

I believe Peyton was pretty bad too, but this site only record back to 1999.

http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata.php?year=&pos=QB&college=

If I remember correctly, Peyton's time was so bad that some made fun of him as running a 40 in 7 seconds.

I think his 3-cone might have been worse than Schaub.

There was a story about how the Colts even discussed Ryan Leaf, but Polian and his staffs considered Manning's intangibles so highly, they didn't think athleticism as a really big deal.

amazing80

01-21-2013, 08:08 PM

If it makes you feel better, Schaub outran Rivers and Brady in the 40 yard dash.

I believe Peyton was pretty bad too, but this site only record back to 1999.

http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata.php?year=&pos=QB&college=

If I remember correctly, Peyton's time was so bad that some made fun of him as running a 40 in 7 seconds.

I think his 3-cone might have been worse than Schaub.

There was a story about how the Colts even discussed Ryan Leaf, but Polian and his staffs considered Manning's intangibles so highly, they didn't think athleticism as a really big deal.

Like I said, 40 times are useless IMO for a qb, its all about 3 cone and Schaub is BY FAR the worst in the league. at 7.65, his 40 time was 5.01 or something. Brady who has the slowest 40 time like ever lol at 5.28, ran a 7.2 3 cone, thus his ability to move in the pocket, his COD is better and can move laterally much better.

amazing80

01-21-2013, 08:13 PM

If it makes you feel better, Schaub outran Rivers and Brady in the 40 yard dash.

I believe Peyton was pretty bad too, but this site only record back to 1999.

http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata.php?year=&pos=QB&college=

If I remember correctly, Peyton's time was so bad that some made fun of him as running a 40 in 7 seconds.

I think his 3-cone might have been worse than Schaub.

There was a story about how the Colts even discussed Ryan Leaf, but Polian and his staffs considered Manning's intangibles so highly, they didn't think athleticism as a really big deal.

If I was a betting man my money would be on Manning being around 7.3 in his cone drill....but I cant find it

76Texan

01-21-2013, 08:42 PM

If I was a betting man my money would be on Manning being around 7.3 in his cone drill....but I cant find it

I'll take your bet for a six pack that he's slower if we can find the record.
Maybe I'll see you at the tailgate sometimes next year. :texflag:

amazing80

01-21-2013, 08:47 PM

I'll take your bet for a six pack that he's slower if we can find the record.
Maybe I'll see you at the tailgate sometimes next year. :texflag:

:kubepalm: I wont be able to afford another trip next year

76Texan

01-21-2013, 08:58 PM

:kubepalm: I wont be able to afford another trip next year

Hey, I didn't even make it this year despite all the million dollar talks, LOL!

Honoring Earl 34

01-21-2013, 09:28 PM

I'll take your bet for a six pack that he's slower if we can find the record.
Maybe I'll see you at the tailgate sometimes next year. :texflag:

Manning has QB drills on youtube . I'd have a hard time believing he's slower than Schaub .

Texecutioner

01-21-2013, 09:38 PM

Manning has QB drills on youtube . I'd have a hard time believing he's slower than Schaub .

Well all of that stuff was years ago any way. I don't see how you could argue that Schaub would be faster then anyone in the NFL at this point. His last attempt to run it into the end zone was hilarious it was so badly in slow motion as he started moving. That lineman totally stopped him in his tracks. Most slow QB's would have blown right past that guy to score, but Schaub couldn't do it even when he tried on that sneak.

Honoring Earl 34

01-21-2013, 09:44 PM

Well all of that stuff was years ago any way. I don't see how you could argue that Schaub would be faster then anyone in the NFL at this point. His last attempt to run it into the end zone was hilarious it was so badly in slow motion as he started moving. That lineman totally stopped him in his tracks. Most slow QB's would have blown right past that guy to score, but Schaub couldn't do it even when he tried on that sneak.

If Schaub would get in the shotgun , he'd be where he was trying to go .