tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post2940270306362659268..comments2019-05-22T03:12:23.169-04:00Comments on Joel Burgess: Skyrim's Modular Level Design - GDC 2013 TranscriptJoelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09816332769743524346noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-31304963304853242122016-04-06T13:30:23.141-04:002016-04-06T13:30:23.141-04:00For anyone following this post who would be intere...For anyone following this post who would be interested, slides and video for our 2016 &quot;sequel&quot; talk have gone up on the GDC Vault. I&#39;ll also post slides and a transcript here when I can.<br /><br />http://gdcvault.com/play/1023202/-Fallout-4-s-ModularJoel Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816332769743524346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-62632796823180682782015-09-25T16:54:43.711-04:002015-09-25T16:54:43.711-04:00Thanks for the feedback, Andy. Thanks for the feedback, Andy. Joel Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816332769743524346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-74244526738219419512015-09-25T14:06:16.313-04:002015-09-25T14:06:16.313-04:00I know you worked hard on this and had to use this...I know you worked hard on this and had to use this system in order to finish the level design, and respect to all that but i have to say this: all i remember about skyrim dungeons is that they were very boring and repetitive.. after the first gameplay i just couldnt do it anymore, i knew everytime i would enter a dungeon/cave/etc i would see the exact same repeated walls, details, over and over, and over, the same useless items, even the same 3 year old puzzles.. which is weird cause in fallout 3 the world felt more complex and original. all im trying to say is that this modular system that you love and are so passionate about, FAILED , and to me, it just seems that you could just put more effort into creating more original fun content, and hire more level designers, instead of reusing the same pieces so much.. i mean bethesda got 500 million for skyrim or something like that, im sure you can do better than 10 people. Also i do believe a modular system is helpful especialy when designing big worlds, but i also know that modular = more boring, more dull, more lazyness, and that there has to be a balance. you can hate me, disregard this , i dont care, but i know im right on this one. Andy Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01870968450476256682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-35191214835090379662015-06-12T14:52:44.546-04:002015-06-12T14:52:44.546-04:00This article will help me to create better sceneri...This article will help me to create better sceneries. I use 3d Studio Max to create the 3d files. I love working with grid and modular pieces. The use of Modular method helps a lot because allows to make games with infinite possibilities. I use &quot;Blitz3D&quot; for my projects (open world adventure game) because i want to show to the companies what I can do as a programmer or designer in a pure way. Anyway I&#39;m learning the creation kit and i have to say that the editor is awesome!Vinnicius Rosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09084696862509789777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-81852067153420881382014-07-02T11:53:52.268-04:002014-07-02T11:53:52.268-04:00See also this level design tutorial
http://www.ble...See also this level design tutorial<br />http://www.blend4web.com/en/article/43Abced Defshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08526488809860492996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-11866441428136678252014-03-29T22:43:15.172-04:002014-03-29T22:43:15.172-04:00Lucien - there&#39;s quite a lot of interest and t...Lucien - there&#39;s quite a lot of interest and thinking out there about procedural generation today, and the techniques we use certainly share some common ground. Our technique isn&#39;t procedural at all, however. The kits are designed to empower us to hand-create spaces. Our objectives are very similar to those you&#39;d have when thinking about a procedural system.Joel Burgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09816332769743524346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-84966544309225970802014-03-25T01:33:54.280-04:002014-03-25T01:33:54.280-04:00I&#39;d be interested in hearing about application...I&#39;d be interested in hearing about applications of some other techniques of modular level design, like procedural generation with parameters. I could see it being particularly helpful in organic assets like trees and the likes.<br /><br />Then again, that&#39;d require quite a bit of collaboration between some sort of programmer and artists.Lucien Greathousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12140810641420207357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-18182662894352217192013-12-02T13:45:01.461-05:002013-12-02T13:45:01.461-05:00Excellent article. This information will be of gre...Excellent article. This information will be of great use to me in the future!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-34448563356538939632013-05-06T03:51:36.143-04:002013-05-06T03:51:36.143-04:00I&#39;m curious to hear why things like pipes or c...I&#39;m curious to hear why things like pipes or caves aren&#39;t generated or altered procedurally. The screenshot with the pipes in particular looks like obvious kit-use that makes little logical sense in the world, and where you can see the grid right away.<br /><br />With techniques like triplanar texturing and some simple procedural rules, you could make true &quot;kits&quot;.<br /><br />What is preventing games from adopting this? Do artists hate using it? Do programmers hate creating it? Does it require dev/design hybrid unicorns that teams don&#39;t have enough of? If you did a post on this, I imagine a lot of people would be interested.<br /><br />- Signed, someone who has done a lot of demoscene-style work and doesn&#39;t quite get why Quake 3 Arena was the last time they saw a truly curved surface in a game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-89944781475930634182013-05-02T09:24:08.292-04:002013-05-02T09:24:08.292-04:00Great post, thank you for sharing insight into one...Great post, thank you for sharing insight into one of the impressive game studios out there. Gaziusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-43219485999578584642013-05-02T04:48:42.288-04:002013-05-02T04:48:42.288-04:00Awesome article , I have to read it several times ...Awesome article , I have to read it several times to stick in mind some ideas :) , beeing modding skyrim both in level design and art making at the same time is really interesting read , thankyou ... Stefanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17869256150864998686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-14277845802717220792013-05-01T07:18:32.201-04:002013-05-01T07:18:32.201-04:00What a read! I notice you&#39;d written at various...What a read! I notice you&#39;d written at various points that you could go into more detail, but really this is so much more detail than I expected to find and it was absolutely fascinating, thanks for writing it up!<br />In a way the use of kits surprises me, at the same time having finished reading, it makes so much sense, too. This must work so well in areas like the vaults in Fallout 3, but each vault had something bizarre and surprising inside. In Skyrim, Dwemer ruins and ice caves in particular may have had a lot of similarities, but they had a unique identity, something bespoke that made such an area memorable and unique. Perhaps some unexpected architecture on a vast scale and often a character, enemy or event you&#39;d encounter to associate with it. (I think this was why I found bandit hideouts a little weaker, after a while you generally knew what to expect when you entered one) <br /><br />Makes me want to play Skyrim again and have an even closer look :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-64206165534294283812013-04-29T16:27:21.536-04:002013-04-29T16:27:21.536-04:00Good thing Skyrims naming conventions are simpler ...Good thing Skyrims naming conventions are simpler than Fallout 3s eh! <br /><br />I built this huge cave level in Skyrim one time and all the while I thought &#39;how the hell did they model these pieces to line up like this&#39;, well you&#39;ve helped me understand how somewhat further so thankyou! Although I still think it&#39;s partly down to witchcraft and/or wizardryJames_UKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10964339325531775669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-44164421609783907632013-04-27T11:25:10.324-04:002013-04-27T11:25:10.324-04:00Thanks for the awesome write-up!
I&#39;m curious i...Thanks for the awesome write-up!<br />I&#39;m curious if Bethesda has an area in the studio full of Lego bricks. Modular level designs always tend to remind me of building custom Lego blocks ^_^ (I personally enjoy that kind of stuff, plus seeing those modular pieces tickled my senses)<br /><br />I would also love to hear about the process involved in creating the landmass of Skyrim.. how the decisions came through from identifying segregated areas, combining/unifying them, and massaging it to it&#39;s final epic form. I also wonder how artists and designers were assigned and what tasks they needed to take as I imagine the overlap/transition from one area to another could be quite a thing to handle.<br /><br />Great game btw, 300+ hours and counting. Best wishes for Bethesda&#39;s next endeavors!Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04330051896376910027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-86390720370069866132013-04-27T09:27:32.912-04:002013-04-27T09:27:32.912-04:00I didn&#39;t know anyone from Skyrim was brave eno...I didn&#39;t know anyone from Skyrim was brave enough to put out articles where commenters could get at them, but just let me say you did an amazing job and the one unique thing about each dungeon means it still feels totally fresh to me after 200 hours.Noumenonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01597461989960782762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-81687264314189076782013-04-26T18:13:53.959-04:002013-04-26T18:13:53.959-04:00Fantastic post, it&#39;s really great to get an in...Fantastic post, it&#39;s really great to get an insight into the development process behind the kits. Some of the cave kit design was really stunning in particular - I&#39;ve never seen organic forms done in a kit that well before.<br /><br />I&#39;m really curious to see where you&#39;re going forward from this though. On our current project, we use tiled assets that are then deformed along a curve to get a more organic flow and contour to natural areas, such as cliffs and coastlines - and occasional careful use of world-space mapping to both help the tiling and to alleviate artefacts from deformation.<br /><br />This has led me to wonder whether other types of more procedural (but cheap) deformation wouldn&#39;t find use in kit-based systems as well - perhaps something like using blendshapes to create a range of variations on a single tile.<br /><br />Is this a direction you&#39;ve explored at all?9of9https://www.blogger.com/profile/02872251731902941045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-73235602925486578012013-04-26T17:36:57.956-04:002013-04-26T17:36:57.956-04:00&quot;the median play time of Skyrim on Steam has ...&quot;the median play time of Skyrim on Steam has peaked at well over 100 hours&quot;... <br /><br />I&#39;m clocked at 1,131 hours. PC Mods are the saving grace.TheOutlandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-5705676914998624002013-04-26T12:15:35.944-04:002013-04-26T12:15:35.944-04:00an AWESOME article!
More Skyrim tonight, probably...an AWESOME article! <br />More Skyrim tonight, probably no sleep.. :)Christy Kanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769792477062961258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-58118599183614688472013-04-26T11:34:44.043-04:002013-04-26T11:34:44.043-04:00Did you guys try using such systems for your open ...Did you guys try using such systems for your open world areas? If so, how did that work out?Keaton VanAukenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15655811728453018158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-60276014941517957622013-04-26T11:18:02.864-04:002013-04-26T11:18:02.864-04:00Very interesting read, By far the biggest improvem...Very interesting read, By far the biggest improvement I have to say going from TES IV to V is the dungeon diversity, really made my 300+ hours much more enjoyable.<br /><br />I hope some day we have a solution to make things really diverse in terms of art assets, but you can&#39;t at the moment it seems, I know ID tried something with Rage and their Megatextures to make it not so much repeating assets, but honestly I can&#39;t say I was really struck by that when I played it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-13542871489165458872013-04-26T07:20:25.449-04:002013-04-26T07:20:25.449-04:00.. Meant to say &#39;elongated dodecahedron&#39; n..... Meant to say &#39;elongated dodecahedron&#39; not &#39;truncated octahedron&#39; .. but you knew that anyway..<br /><br />Just correcting my mistake above...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-86278043682670396932013-04-26T05:32:44.410-04:002013-04-26T05:32:44.410-04:00Square meshes and &#39;cubic&#39; tile-blocks on n...Square meshes and &#39;cubic&#39; tile-blocks on naturalistic indoor environments (eg natural caves) can be a challenge - how about equilateral triangular meshes, or for 3d space rhombic-dodecahedrons?<br /><br />It might be a pain at first for the technical crew - as their graphics and physics tools are probably based around square and cuboid bounding shapes - but maybe the rewards are there?<br /><br />Use of rhombic dodecahedron packing has the helpful property that the repeat pattern is along the 3 normal axises (unlike say Truncated Octahedrons ..) - also allows code reuse for voxels...<br /><br />Well over 300+ hours of pure enjoy on Oblivion by the way - so many thanks, to you and all the Bethesda team.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-71416383283008466762013-04-26T02:05:02.034-04:002013-04-26T02:05:02.034-04:00This is an AWESOME article in terms of explaining ...This is an AWESOME article in terms of explaining workflow! I wish so many studios did this too, it&#39;s a lot we can learn from as a really small studio! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-14210995008246920032013-04-25T22:23:38.410-04:002013-04-25T22:23:38.410-04:00Great, huge blog! But believe me, I IMMEDIATELY no...Great, huge blog! But believe me, I IMMEDIATELY noticed how little variation there was in Skyrim, it often didn&#39;t feel much better than Oblivion.<br /><br />Better tools would help immeasurably. I played around with the Skyrim editor about a year ago, and it felt vastly outdated compared too Cryengine 3 and Unity (which I&#39;ve played with, wouldn&#39;t doubt UE4 is the same way). Instant play and edit, being able to cover up seems by just painting textures onto things in the editor.<br /><br />The biggest help I could see to your kind of game are tint maps, so you can just change the color of whatever asset you want instantly, and the aforementioned in editor texture painting, along with decals, hopefully both linked to tessellation and displacement maps so the geometry itself changes. You could probably get a lot more mileage out of stuff with such tools, but even then I&#39;d say you&#39;d probably need to double you artist count for interiors at least. Coming to the same exact village again and again and again made parts of Skyrim get really boring really quick.Sean Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16267208036308466608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30579660.post-89674367784406336962013-04-25T21:25:29.889-04:002013-04-25T21:25:29.889-04:00What a wonderfully we&#39;ll written article. I am...What a wonderfully we&#39;ll written article. I am surprised at the amount of in-depth, complicated work involved in making things simple to design.<br />Walter Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16977689221482478695noreply@blogger.com