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And they protect us from a threat (tyrannical or apathetic governments) that is far more immediate and significant than the threat of "people who were involved in foreign insurgent activities half their lifetimes ago while under the influence of extremist authority figures, after that influence has been removed; and no thanks to the government replaced with positive influences"

^Not all Canadians deserve the same protection, when you decide to attack other Canadians, you can't seriously expect to get handed a multi-million dollar payment when some foreign government breaks your "charter rights". Its simply not just, there are too many Canadian's struggling to survive / get by, to hand out taxpayer dollars like that (even if it does means lawyers, who Judges like to give perks too, get very well paid).

Then why are you trying to win an argument by calling the 70% of Canadians' who have views that are different from yours, fascists and alt-right nuters?

I'm not calling Canadians at large fascists & alt-right nutters, just you, gwill, MrO, HL et al. You're the one that tried to fallaciously expand that comparison out to all Canadians who share your opinion on one issue.

Originally Posted by moahunter

Most Canadians opposed this payout - they think protecting Canadians from terrorism as opposed to rewarding Canadians who do terrorist acts, is more important than some obscure charter rights that have misinterpreted (or were poorly worded from the outset).

"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

It's hardly obscure, or poorly worded. It is however, open to interpretation. That's why we have judges & the court system. And in the unanimous interpretation of the Supreme Court of Canada, Section 7 had been violated by the Canadian Government with respect to Omar. The settlement isn't "rewarding Canadians who do terrorist acts" it's a punishment to the Government for violating the inalienable rights of one of its citizens, whom they had a duty to protect but instead were complicit in his detention & torture in an illegal holding facility operated outside the rule of law.

We get it, you'd prefer if the government could ignore the human rights of Canadians whenever it's politically expedient, which is more in line with those countries you mistakenly thought I'd be better suited to. Project much?

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

^^If you think that voiding charter rights for Khadr is OK because he has been judged to be a "terrorist" in the court of public opinion, remember that the exact same logic could be used to void your own rights, should the fickle public decide that you can be judged to be an "alt-right" or whatever and not deserving of those rights.

If anything, feeling like you're on the outside of a vocal "group-think"-ing crowd should make you more supportive of charter rights rather than less.

I'm not calling Canadians at large fascists & alt-right nutters, just you, gwill, MrO, HL et al. You're the one that tried to fallaciously expand that comparison out to all Canadians who share your opinion on one issue.

So basically, what are you saying, is the only people on this thread who have spoken in opposition to this payout, are facists and alt-right nutters, but that the other Canadians (i.e. most Canadians - from all political parties) who share those views, are not, but rather, just stupid for not agreeing with you / have no knowledge of your amazing wisdom. Got it.

^Not all Canadians deserve the same protection, when you decide to attack other Canadians, you can't seriously expect to get handed a multi-million dollar payment when some foreign government breaks your "charter rights". Its simply not just, there are too many Canadian's struggling to survive / get by, to hand out taxpayer dollars like that (even if it does means lawyers, who Judges like to give perks too, get very well paid).

For the courts to effectively enforce rights on a government that is disinclined to respect them there has to be consequences. Consequences like a significant "fine" - judgements in cases involving large corporate defendants are often large when looked at from the angle of what each complainant gets, but they're large because they're intended to be punitive. From that perspective, $10m is a miniscule 'punishment'.

^Not all Canadians deserve the same protection, when you decide to attack other Canadians, you can't seriously expect to get handed a multi-million dollar payment when some foreign government breaks your "charter rights".

It wasn't a foreign government's breach of Omar's rights that is the basis for the settlement, rather the willful actions of the Canadian government itself. We violated Omar's rights, not them. That's why we're the ones paying for it.

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

And I will add that most people polled and their opinions are largely ill informed. I you read a headline that says that a terrorist gets $10m and that's all they read, they don't understand the details of various rulings, the court cases or the facts going back to the original acts and the consequences of not settling.

It is the same thing as if you asked a poll where the question; do you want the government to give YOU a million dollars, I highly doubt that anyone would say no. The consequences of giving every Canadian a million dollars would be disastrous but the polls would show a 99.98 percent approval rating?

Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

I'm not calling Canadians at large fascists & alt-right nutters, just you, gwill, MrO, HL et al. You're the one that tried to fallaciously expand that comparison out to all Canadians who share your opinion on one issue.

So basically, what are you saying, is the only people on this thread who have spoken in opposition to this payout, are facists and alt-right nutters, but that the other Canadians (i.e. most Canadians - from all political parties) who share those views, are not, but rather, just stupid for not agreeing with you / have no knowledge of your amazing wisdom. Got it.

Correction - I never spoke in opposition to this payout (the law says what the law says, etc.).

But you will notice that some users whom I disagree with seem to get off by smearing my name at every opportunity they get, even in conversations that I am not participating in (such as this one). (Neo-marxist tactics like public shaming and pile-on bullying are habits of far-left wackos). It's amazing that I live in so many far-left nutter's heads rent-free. Too bad it doesn't help them think or consider that some of their beliefs may be wrong.

And I will add that most people polled and their opinions are largely ill informed. I you read a headline that says that a terrorist gets $10m and that's all they read, they don't understand the details of various rulings, the court cases or the facts going back to the original acts and the consequences of not settling

That's typical, chardonnay sipping, elitist Liberal claptrap - most Canadian's are too stupid / ill informed to understand, "My views are better than their views because I am smarter than them / understand it better" ... Canadians know it might have cost more to fight the pay out, but they also know that was the right thing to do.

It was the right thing to do to fight against the constitution, all Canadian citizens & their right to due process?

Yeah, that seems completely legitimate & reasonable. Damn those fair courts & principles of fundamental justice! Who wants to live in a country where the government can be told by courts to follow its own rules!? Mob rule for everyone!

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

And I will add that most people polled and their opinions are largely ill informed. I you read a headline that says that a terrorist gets $10m and that's all they read, they don't understand the details of various rulings, the court cases or the facts going back to the original acts and the consequences of not settling

That's typical, chardonnay sipping, elitist Liberal claptrap - most Canadian's are too stupid / ill informed to understand, "My views are better than their views because I am smarter than them / understand it better" ... Canadians know it might have cost more to fight the pay out, but they also know that was the right thing to do.

It was the right thing to do to fight against the constitution, all Canadian citizens & their right to due process?

The Supreme Court didn't rule anywhere that we should pay him $10m, now you are just making stuff up, the Trudeau government had every right to let the courts decide the payout, instead of just handing over half of what Khadr wanted (thankfully his lawyers didn't ask for 100m or you would be cheering the 50m payout). The Supreme Court might have decided that having a life in Canada was good enough compensation.

I'm not calling Canadians at large fascists & alt-right nutters, just you, gwill, MrO, HL et al. You're the one that tried to fallaciously expand that comparison out to all Canadians who share your opinion on one issue.

So basically, what are you saying, is the only people on this thread who have spoken in opposition to this payout, are facists and alt-right nutters, but that the other Canadians (i.e. most Canadians - from all political parties) who share those views, are not, but rather, just stupid for not agreeing with you / have no knowledge of your amazing wisdom. Got it.

Correction - I never spoke in opposition to this payout (the law says what the law says, etc.).

But you will notice that some users whom I disagree with seem to get off by smearing my name at every opportunity they get, even in conversations that I am not participating in (such as this one). (Neo-marxist tactics like public shaming and pile-on bullying are habits of far-left wackos). It's amazing that I live in so many far-left nutter's heads rent-free. Too bad it doesn't help them think or consider that some of their beliefs may be wrong.

Funny! Good one!

I myself do enjoy trying to lump you in, rightly or wrongly, with various nutters too. Yes, we're all "trolls" but; all in good fun, right.

It doesn't make anyone who talks positively of the views of the 70% though, a "fascist, alt right" (per Noodle), or "ignorant" (per PRT). People have different lines in the sand, no society can exist with perfect human rights - for example, I don't have the human right to kill my neighbor if I "feel" like it, because my neighbor has rights too. We have rules, and laws, and different interpretations of the right of the individual versus the collective right of society to be protected and free. Most Canadians draw the line closer to me, Gwill211 and Mr Oilers on this issue, the Supreme Court may have drawn that line in the same place too re the payout, but we will never know now because Trudeau just caved in and gave the Khadr lawyers half of what they wanted - the only consolation here is they didn't ask for even more as Trudeau would have then just handed over more.

Moa, you don't even have a good grasp of what actually happened in Gitmo to Omar, given your statement regarding who actually infringed Omar's rights here, despite having been corrected a half dozen times or more in this thread. That's pretty much the definition of ignorant.

Why are you so against the Canadian government acting within the bounds of Canadian law when dealing with Canadian citizens? Why do you believe the government shouldn't be punished for their willful breach of the constitution in their denying a Canadian citizen their Section 7 Charter rights?

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

^booo hooo, a CSIS agent interviewed me, give me $20m... (Trudeau hands over $10m). Thankfully he didn't ask for 40m or 100m or 1b as charter rights are worth a lot when you have to put up with an interview, aren't they?

Moa, you don't even have a good grasp of what actually happened in Gitmo to Omar, given your statement regarding who actually infringed Omar's rights here, despite having been corrected a half dozen times or more in this thread. That's pretty much the definition of ignorant.

Why are you so against the Canadian government acting within the bounds of Canadian law when dealing with Canadian citizens? Why do you believe the government shouldn't be punished for their willful breach of the constitution in their denying a Canadian citizen their Section 7 Charter rights?

Personal aside of what JT thinks is moral or legal he forgets that he works for the people. ..this will cost Liberals their jobs

^booo hooo, a CSIS agent interviewed me, give me $20m... (Trudeau hands over $10m). Thankfully he didn't ask for 40m or 100m or 1b as charter rights are worth a lot when you have to put up with an interview, aren't they?

A deliberately misrepresented interview without legal counsel, depriving him of his right to a fair trial & also becoming complicit in his torture & abuse at the hands of the Americans.

Amazing how things change when you don't deliberately omit the salient & crucial points of the case.

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

^booo hooo, a CSIS agent interviewed me, give me $20m... (Trudeau hands over $10m). Thankfully he didn't ask for 40m or 100m or 1b as charter rights are worth a lot when you have to put up with an interview, aren't they?

A deliberately misrepresented interview without legal counsel, depriving him of his right to a fair trial & also becoming complicit in his torture & abuse at the hands of the Americans.

Amazing how things change when you don't deliberately omit the salient & crucial points of the case.

An interesting perspective from the American medic who saved Kadr's life after the firefight

It doesn't make anyone who talks positively of the views of the 70% though, a "fascist, alt right" (per Noodle), or "ignorant" (per PRT). People have different lines in the sand, no society can exist with perfect human rights - for example, I don't have the human right to kill my neighbor if I "feel" like it, because my neighbor has rights too. We have rules, and laws, and different interpretations of the right of the individual versus the collective right of society to be protected and free. Most Canadians draw the line closer to me, Gwill211 and Mr Oilers on this issue, the Supreme Court may have drawn that line in the same place too re the payout, but we will never know now because Trudeau just caved in and gave the Khadr lawyers half of what they wanted - the only consolation here is they didn't ask for even more as Trudeau would have then just handed over more.

While ignorant can be used or misused as an insult it can also be a fact-based adjective, when an opinion is based on limited information or understanding.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that those who have a problem with the settlement are more likely to be ignorant of the details of the case, or ignorant of the applicable law. That some of you are willfully ignorant doesn't seem to be much of a stretch either.

^booo hooo, a CSIS agent interviewed me, give me $20m... (Trudeau hands over $10m). Thankfully he didn't ask for 40m or 100m or 1b as charter rights are worth a lot when you have to put up with an interview, aren't they?

A deliberately misrepresented interview without legal counsel, depriving him of his right to a fair trial & also becoming complicit in his torture & abuse at the hands of the Americans.

Amazing how things change when you don't deliberately omit the salient & crucial points of the case.

An interesting perspective from the American medic who saved Kadr's life after the firefight

I like how the usual suspects keep reposting Drumbones error filled post, as Gospel.

Taking fake news and running with it.

You are allowed one quick edit without the edited line showing at the bottom. I'm sure I read conservative where liberal was a few minutes later. If not I apologize. Take that line off my rant and it still stands.

I repeat.

I never changed a word.

You are making false claims that I edited my post which I did not and the record clearly proved that

Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

And I will add that most people polled and their opinions are largely ill informed. I you read a headline that says that a terrorist gets $10m and that's all they read, they don't understand the details of various rulings, the court cases or the facts going back to the original acts and the consequences of not settling

That's typical, chardonnay sipping, elitist Liberal claptrap - most Canadian's are too stupid / ill informed to understand, "My views are better than their views because I am smarter than them / understand it better" ... Canadians know it might have cost more to fight the pay out, but they also know that was the right thing to do.

prt still thinks i disagree with the charter or scc.. uhhh.

Did you not just post this?

Originally Posted by gwill211

but the scc ruling!! Thats all the matters... dont you understand!! /sarcasm

Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

Moa, you don't even have a good grasp of what actually happened in Gitmo to Omar, given your statement regarding who actually infringed Omar's rights here, despite having been corrected a half dozen times or more in this thread. That's pretty much the definition of ignorant.

Why are you so against the Canadian government acting within the bounds of Canadian law when dealing with Canadian citizens? Why do you believe the government shouldn't be punished for their willful breach of the constitution in their denying a Canadian citizen their Section 7 Charter rights?

Personal aside of what JT thinks is moral or legal he forgets that he works for the people. ..this will cost Liberals their jobs

That he is willing to sacrifice political points and do what is both legal and ethical in this case gives me hope for his leadership.

^booo hooo, a CSIS agent interviewed me, give me $20m... (Trudeau hands over $10m). Thankfully he didn't ask for 40m or 100m or 1b as charter rights are worth a lot when you have to put up with an interview, aren't they?

A deliberately misrepresented interview without legal counsel, depriving him of his right to a fair trial & also becoming complicit in his torture & abuse at the hands of the Americans.

Amazing how things change when you don't deliberately omit the salient & crucial points of the case.

An interesting perspective from the American medic who saved Kadr's life after the firefight

They are trained to save lives, just like paramedics here( or doctors) that save the lives of child killers, or gang bangers etc.

I like how you put Khadr into the same group as "child killers, or gang bangers". Good old character assassination of even the Medic's opinion. Were you a member of Harper's office staff?

He is also a trained soldier and it was his team that was involved in the firefight. He has firsthand knowledge of the event an has thought about that day, everyday for the past 15 years.

His opinion is very valid and he does not agree to what was done to Khadr.

I add to this post...

I just realized the parallel: "They are trained to save lives, just like paramedics here( or doctors) that save the lives of child killers, or gang bangers etc."

Just like a paramedic or doctor, a Judge is trained to protect the rights of the innocent until proven guilty in a fair and open trial.

H.L., you are, by inference, that a paramedic or doctor should violate their hippocratic oath and decide to save or allow a person should die simply by making a personal judgement on their guilt or innocence. Allowing even a prisoner of war to die or be killed is illegal, period. This is why we have three branches in government and in justice, we have three branches that include the duly elected politicians that create the laws, the police that enforce the law and the Courts that rule on law. It is not the PMO's office nor the police/military that is supposed to be the Judge, jury and prosecution.

H.L., you have just proven the point that we have been trying to make and the the Supreme Court unanimously upheld time and again.

Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 24-07-2017 at 01:42 PM.

Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

And I will add that most people polled and their opinions are largely ill informed. I you read a headline that says that a terrorist gets $10m and that's all they read, they don't understand the details of various rulings, the court cases or the facts going back to the original acts and the consequences of not settling

That's typical, chardonnay sipping, elitist Liberal claptrap - most Canadian's are too stupid / ill informed to understand, "My views are better than their views because I am smarter than them / understand it better" ... Canadians know it might have cost more to fight the pay out, but they also know that was the right thing to do.

So the smart money is on fighting something that is unwinnable and paying more to do it? Just because. Two previous govts refused to responsibly deal with this matter which is what elevated the costs of final settlement which has been stated in this thread a 100 times.

Its also odd that in the same post that you talk about elitist views and Govt knowing better than others that you omnisciently submit "the right thing to do" as if your stance confirms what is right.

I doubt you even have a conception of the conflicted irony contained in your posts.

"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

Millions of people stage protests all week in the country to protect their Constitution and the independence of the Supreme Court

Poland's President Duda vetoes judicial reforms after protests

Polish President Andrzej Duda has announced he is vetoing a controversial law to replace Supreme Court judges with government nominees.Three key judicial reforms have been passed by Poland's parliament, prompting days of demonstrations across the country.
Before they become law, they require approval by the president.
The changes have also set Poland's right-wing government on a collision course with the European Union.
The European Commission had threatened to impose sanctions this week if the reforms were not scrapped. European Council President Donald Tusk, a former Polish prime minister, had warned of a "black scenario that could ultimately lead to the marginalisation of Poland in Europe".
Why did president step in?
"As president I don't feel this law would strengthen a sense of justice," Mr Duda said in a statement broadcast on national television. "These laws must be amended."
He said he was vetoing two of the new laws but approving a third, which gives the justice minister the right to name the heads of Poland's lower courts.

Your tone exhibits a certain amount of personal vindication and even glee, that you can use this poor man's plight as an example to prove your point.

Here are some facts.

First of all, he is not 15 years old.

Irrespective of that; the Government of Canada is actively engaged including the Prime Minister to get him released. A far cry from the Khadr case.

Here are some easy to find examples of what is being done to try to free Davud Hanci.

a Global Affairs spokesperson said Canadian consular officials in Turkey "have been in contact with local authorities since the beginning and are in regular contact with the Canadian citizen's family to provide consular assistance."

If the govt ignores the torture and does nothing are they on the hook? Oh thats right the govt needs to visit the guy, lie to him, act contrary to Canadian law & actively deny him his human rights before they pay out millions.

Forgot a little detail there.

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

Noodle, you may have noticed that gwill211 is always trying to frame the statement in a deceptive way in a 'gotcha' type. He fails at this because he thinks we can be fooled by his oversimplification that clearly shows his bias and misunderstanding of the issues.

Sad.

Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

I like how gwill211 completely ignores the fact that PRT shows that the Canadian Govt is actively on his case, and just doubles down on the false equivalency. Not even trying to hide the ignorance anymore.

I like how gwill211 completely ignores the fact that PRT shows that the Canadian Govt is actively on his case, and just doubles down on the false equivalency. Not even trying to hide the ignorance anymore.

That is because gwill211 is a useless, flame baiting troll. Creator of fake news, incendiary comments and false flags.

Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 25-07-2017 at 02:36 PM.

Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

Though Canadians remain divided over the Liberal government’s decision to settle its suit with Omar Khadr, it hasn’t negatively affected Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s overall ratings – in fact, his approval ratings are up four percentage points since April, according to an Ipsos poll.

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

Then, like an improvised explosive device in the middle of Angus Reid's poll, plopped the pronouncement that 64 per cent of Canadians believe Khadr is a “potential radicalized threat.”
Conservative media jumped all over that one, which is to say they reported it dutifully without bothering to dissect the supporting numbers. A closer look at those tells a different story. That's the thing with public opinion polls. They can, and often are, used to push an alternate reality.
And with this one, there were a number of red flags missed by we gatekeepers of public discourse (i.e.: the media) beginning with the fact that those polled were not what might be described as ordinary Canadians. They're members of the Angus Reid Forum, an online panel paid to take part in surveys for the polling company. (Check out the snaps on Angus Reid's Instagram account.)
Red flag number two: Angus Reid's poll was "self-commissioned," which is always dangerous given polling companies usually only commission their own polls for one reason and one reason only, and that's to get their name in the papers.
Then there are the numbers Angus Reid crunched to determine its key findings. They just don't add up. For starters, only 21 per cent of those surveyed have followed the Khadr story “closely and know a lot about it.” Almost half of the 1,521 people surveyed (47 per cent), had only followed the Khadr case “some, and know a little bit about it."
Dig a little deeper into the "tables, graphs and methodology" section accompanying the poll and Angus Reid's conclusions become wobblier.

In other words, the fact that people know little or nothing about Khadr's case seems to have little bearing on their opinion – their answers depend more on which political party they supported in the last election. Well, then...
That may explain why 42 per cent of those surveyed answered “not sure/can’t say” whether Khadr was treated fairly or unfairly.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

You can apply that to pretty much every political issue, left or right. The vast majority of people are woefully ill-informed about most political issues. That doesn't prevent them from having strong opinions on them, even if those opinions have little basis in fact.

Yes, and if you disagree with the public consensus as reported in a poll, it's dangerous to lull yourself into a false sense of reassurance by saying "Oh well, those people don't understand the issues anyway. so who cares." Because knowledge of the issues is not a requirement to cast a ballot, and if some ignorant jerk who doesn't know jack squat about anything is determined to vote against the Liberals because he's outraged about the Khadr compensation, that's still one vote that the Liberals aren't going to get.

You can apply that to pretty much every political issue, left or right. The vast majority of people are woefully ill-informed about most political issues. That doesn't prevent them from having strong opinions on them, even if those opinions have little basis in fact.

I disagree, that's a classic case of left wing upper class snobbery - just because somebody doesn't go on a forum or choose to debate something, doesn't mean they aren't engaged, or are too stupid to understand it because their views don't match yours.

Then, like an improvised explosive device in the middle of Angus Reid's poll, plopped the pronouncement that 64 per cent of Canadians believe Khadr is a “potential radicalized threat.”
Conservative media jumped all over that one, which is to say they reported it dutifully without bothering to dissect the supporting numbers. A closer look at those tells a different story. That's the thing with public opinion polls. They can, and often are, used to push an alternate reality.
And with this one, there were a number of red flags missed by we gatekeepers of public discourse (i.e.: the media) beginning with the fact that those polled were not what might be described as ordinary Canadians. They're members of the Angus Reid Forum, an online panel paid to take part in surveys for the polling company. (Check out the snaps on Angus Reid's Instagram account.)
Red flag number two: Angus Reid's poll was "self-commissioned," which is always dangerous given polling companies usually only commission their own polls for one reason and one reason only, and that's to get their name in the papers.
Then there are the numbers Angus Reid crunched to determine its key findings. They just don't add up. For starters, only 21 per cent of those surveyed have followed the Khadr story “closely and know a lot about it.” Almost half of the 1,521 people surveyed (47 per cent), had only followed the Khadr case “some, and know a little bit about it."
Dig a little deeper into the "tables, graphs and methodology" section accompanying the poll and Angus Reid's conclusions become wobblier.

In other words, the fact that people know little or nothing about Khadr's case seems to have little bearing on their opinion – their answers depend more on which political party they supported in the last election. Well, then...
That may explain why 42 per cent of those surveyed answered “not sure/can’t say” whether Khadr was treated fairly or unfairly.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

With all the staff laid off by most of the media, I doubt there is anyone left who has time for much critical analysis. They tend to cover polls very summarily and often miss or ignore the important nuances in the data. Perhaps that is one reason so much polling has been later proven to be not so accurate in recent years.

I suspect you are right, the polling company just wants to keep their name in the news, summer is slow news time anyways so easier to do then and perhaps the polling company wants to drum up a bit more business.

I also suspect there is a correlation on how people feel about the Khadr issue and the party they support, but it is also not something that really has much bearing on people's day to day lives so I am not sure the average citizen pays that much attention to beyond the more politically engaged, so its not surprising there is a lot of of "not sure/can't say" here.

Then, like an improvised explosive device in the middle of Angus Reid's poll, plopped the pronouncement that 64 per cent of Canadians believe Khadr is a “potential radicalized threat.”
Conservative media jumped all over that one, which is to say they reported it dutifully without bothering to dissect the supporting numbers. A closer look at those tells a different story. That's the thing with public opinion polls. They can, and often are, used to push an alternate reality.
And with this one, there were a number of red flags missed by we gatekeepers of public discourse (i.e.: the media) beginning with the fact that those polled were not what might be described as ordinary Canadians. They're members of the Angus Reid Forum, an online panel paid to take part in surveys for the polling company. (Check out the snaps on Angus Reid's Instagram account.)
Red flag number two: Angus Reid's poll was "self-commissioned," which is always dangerous given polling companies usually only commission their own polls for one reason and one reason only, and that's to get their name in the papers.
Then there are the numbers Angus Reid crunched to determine its key findings. They just don't add up. For starters, only 21 per cent of those surveyed have followed the Khadr story “closely and know a lot about it.” Almost half of the 1,521 people surveyed (47 per cent), had only followed the Khadr case “some, and know a little bit about it."
Dig a little deeper into the "tables, graphs and methodology" section accompanying the poll and Angus Reid's conclusions become wobblier.

In other words, the fact that people know little or nothing about Khadr's case seems to have little bearing on their opinion – their answers depend more on which political party they supported in the last election. Well, then...
That may explain why 42 per cent of those surveyed answered “not sure/can’t say” whether Khadr was treated fairly or unfairly.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

With all the staff laid off by most of the media, I doubt there is anyone left who has time for much critical analysis.

Agreed, the media was very heavily biased in favor of the payout - but even so, Canadians were a lot smarter per the polls.

Judge ruled our govts intent was to destroy this persons life. Destroy his business. They interrogated him for 9 hours in his house failing to provide him the basic rights others would have had in the same scenario.

They forced him to talk and wouldnt allow him to stay silent. They forced him to hand over all of his passwords to every online account.

A judge ruled the warrant was illegal but our govt and big corporations are appealing this. Meanwhile weeks or months later and the govt hasnt given anything back to the guy. Essentially they continue to push on even after they were told they went too far.

What sort of settlement should we see out of these charter violations?

Judge ruled our govts intent was to destroy this persons life. Destroy his business. They interrogated him for 9 hours in his house failing to provide him the basic rights others would have had in the same scenario.

They forced him to talk and wouldnt allow him to stay silent. They forced him to hand over all of his passwords to every online account.

A judge ruled the warrant was illegal but our govt and big corporations are appealing this. Meanwhile weeks or months later and the govt hasnt given anything back to the guy. Essentially they continue to push on even after they were told they went too far.

What sort of settlement should we see out of these charter violations?

Not sure what this has to do with Omar Khadr but it is pretty disgusting.

When asked for their opinion on the decision of federal Conservative MPs to criticize the Khadr payment in the U.S. media, more than six out of 10 Canadians said they feel uncomfortable or somewhat uncomfortable about the actions of the Conservative MPs.
“Going south to attack the Liberal government was definitely not a growth strategy,” said pollster Nik Nanos, noting that separate polling by Nanos shows a decline in support for the Conservative Party in recent weeks as the party focused on the Khadr decision.
“For some, it might be the right message, but it’s definitely in the wrong format and the wrong place and I think that’s where the Conservatives are vulnerable on this,” he said.

Harper and Day did basically the same thing over the Liberals decision not to join the Iraq war. Wrote a full page editorial in the Wall Street Journal.

"Condemnations of Khadr reek of double standards: Kanji

CIA drone strikes in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen have not only killed people the U.S. claimed were militants, but also untold scores of civilians; civilians like Mamana Bibi, a 68-year-old woman who was obliterated in front of her grandchildren while picking vegetables in North Waziristan.

“Under the legal theories adopted by our government in prosecuting Guantanamo detainees, these CIA officers [involved in the drone program] … are committing war crimes,” observed international law professor and former Navy officer David Glazier.

But unlike Omar Khadr, the architects and executors of the CIA drone program have not been penalized as war criminals. Quite the contrary — their powers have been increased by President Trump.

The U.S. has also largely failed to prosecute the torture and killing of thousands of Afghan civilians by American forces since 2001. To pick just one massacre out of many: no one has been brought to justice for the U.S.’s 2015 bombing of a Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) hospital in Kunduz, which killed 42 civilians; hospital staff were decapitated by shrapnel, while immobile patients burned alive in their beds.

The U.S. conducted an internal investigation into the bombing (under pressure from MSF) and exonerated itself of war crimes, by claiming its transgressions of the laws of war were not “intentional” — a much higher threshold for guilt than it applies to detainees at Guantanamo Bay, where acts that are merely negligent can qualify as war crimes.

Judge ruled our govts intent was to destroy this persons life. Destroy his business. They interrogated him for 9 hours in his house failing to provide him the basic rights others would have had in the same scenario.

They forced him to talk and wouldnt allow him to stay silent. They forced him to hand over all of his passwords to every online account.

A judge ruled the warrant was illegal but our govt and big corporations are appealing this. Meanwhile weeks or months later and the govt hasnt given anything back to the guy. Essentially they continue to push on even after they were told they went too far.

What sort of settlement should we see out of these charter violations?

Not sure what this has to do with Omar Khadr but it is pretty disgusting.

All these whiners spend weeks defending a terrorirst when there are many real cases of charter violations they could speak out on..

But hey khadr is cool.. it's the sjw issue they want to take up for the moment.

Its not about khadrs charter rights being violated or theyd be speaking up on other charter rights issues that are currently happening.. it's quite pathetic.

How is it that the ones that are fine with the Khadr settlement are "whiners" and the ones moaning on and on about it long after the thread has been done are lobbing that term? I would say clearly the above post is whining, or quite pathetic..

"if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

Judge ruled our govts intent was to destroy this persons life. Destroy his business. They interrogated him for 9 hours in his house failing to provide him the basic rights others would have had in the same scenario.

They forced him to talk and wouldnt allow him to stay silent. They forced him to hand over all of his passwords to every online account.

A judge ruled the warrant was illegal but our govt and big corporations are appealing this. Meanwhile weeks or months later and the govt hasnt given anything back to the guy. Essentially they continue to push on even after they were told they went too far.

What sort of settlement should we see out of these charter violations?

Not sure what this has to do with Omar Khadr but it is pretty disgusting.

All these whiners spend weeks defending a terrorirst when there are many real cases of charter violations they could speak out on..

But hey khadr is cool.. it's the sjw issue they want to take up for the moment.

Its not about khadrs charter rights being violated or theyd be speaking up on other charter rights issues that are currently happening.. it's quite pathetic.

"...they could speak out on...". It doesn't work that way. You're only right on the part that it's the issue of the moment as that is, how many things work. Moahunter initiated this thread, with a spin, and so what do you expect?

So as for not debating "real cases of charter violations". What threads have you started on the other cases?

My problem is your faulty logic. You spent weeks arguing that the settlement was Trudeau's fault, he didn't have to make it, and so on. Then you go ahead and post an article that supports what you were arguing against: that decisions made by previous governments tied Trudeau's hands on the matter, and left him little option.

So you'd like Justin Trudeau to time travel back and fix the problem in 2002? Seems reasonable.

Well as the saying goes "what's done is done", but Martin's comments do add an interesting perspective to this situation. It's not reasonable to travel back in time, but I do think its a reasonable point to make that if Harper didn't come in and take such a hard line on this, maybe we wouldn't be paying as much out as now. Trudeau was really just dealing with cleaning up the mess created by others here.

^Maybe they didn't need to? Maybe there was a ransom payment and they got a kickback on it (or just donated it to ISIS)? But yeah, a law suit wouldn't be surprising, the precedent has been set, if someone, somewhere, in the world does something bad to you, and the Canadian government breaches your charter rights by not responding the way you would like you to, then $10m plus is justified.

^What's to say about those two fools. Stupidity at it's finest. Hitchhiking around terrorist areas thinking they are immune to being captured. Putting their first unborn kid in danger, getting captured then no doubt expecting others to face danger trying to get them out. The pair of them need locking up or counseling at the very least to see if some of the stupid can be fixed. Airheaded dreamers.

"The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

^What's to say about those two fools. Stupidity at it's finest. Hitchhiking around terrorist areas thinking they are immune to being captured. Putting their first unborn kid in danger, getting captured then no doubt expecting others to face danger trying to get them out. The pair of them need locking up or counseling at the very least to see if some of the stupid can be fixed. Airheaded dreamers.

Great point. Think of all those parents that have had their kids taken away from them for various reasons related to care, endangerment, etc.

^What's to say about those two fools. Stupidity at it's finest. Hitchhiking around terrorist areas thinking they are immune to being captured. Putting their first unborn kid in danger, getting captured then no doubt expecting others to face danger trying to get them out. The pair of them need locking up or counseling at the very least to see if some of the stupid can be fixed. Airheaded dreamers.

He wasn't exactly hitchhiking in a random area though when you consider his ex-father-in-law was a very active Taliban member and extremely close to Osama bin Laden. This doesn't mean he is a terrorist or supports terrorism.
Then he refused to fly on a US military flight to USA, as he is worried he might be arrested or interrogated, but will fly a Canadian commercial airline to Canada.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ban-freed.html

He wasn't exactly hitchhiking in a random area though when you consider his ex-father-in-law was a very active Taliban member and extremely close to Osama bin Laden. This doesn't mean he is a terrorist or supports terrorism.
Then he refused to fly on a US military flight to USA, as he is worried he might be arrested or interrogated, but will fly a Canadian commercial airline to Canada.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ban-freed.html

His family just said, it wasn't a very wise decision to go to where they went for their hols, ya think?

He wasn't exactly hitchhiking in a random area though when you consider his ex-father-in-law was a very active Taliban member and extremely close to Osama bin Laden. This doesn't mean he is a terrorist or supports terrorism.
Then he refused to fly on a US military flight to USA, as he is worried he might be arrested or interrogated, but will fly a Canadian commercial airline to Canada.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ban-freed.html

His family just said, it wasn't a very wise decision to go to where they went for their hols, ya think?

JT refuses to talk about it..lol. I bet he does,

I hear Kabul and Pyongyang are wonderful at this time of year, but you know for some reason I think I'll pass. Maybe he encountered his ex father in law on his trek through the Afghanistan country side - awkward. I think that might not have gone well for him.

He wasn't exactly hitchhiking in a random area though when you consider his ex-father-in-law was a very active Taliban member and extremely close to Osama bin Laden. This doesn't mean he is a terrorist or supports terrorism.
Then he refused to fly on a US military flight to USA, as he is worried he might be arrested or interrogated, but will fly a Canadian commercial airline to Canada.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ban-freed.html

His family just said, it wasn't a very wise decision to go to where they went for their hols, ya think?

JT refuses to talk about it..lol. I bet he does,

I hear Kabul and Pyongyang are wonderful at this time of year, but you know for some reason I think I'll pass. Maybe he encountered his ex father in law on his trek through the Afghanistan country side - awkward. I think that might not have gone well for him.

He wasn't exactly hitchhiking in a random area though when you consider his ex-father-in-law was a very active Taliban member and extremely close to Osama bin Laden. This doesn't mean he is a terrorist or supports terrorism.
Then he refused to fly on a US military flight to USA, as he is worried he might be arrested or interrogated, but will fly a Canadian commercial airline to Canada.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ban-freed.html

His family just said, it wasn't a very wise decision to go to where they went for their hols, ya think?

JT refuses to talk about it..lol. I bet he does,

I hear Kabul and Pyongyang are wonderful at this time of year, but you know for some reason I think I'll pass. Maybe he encountered his ex father in law on his trek through the Afghanistan country side - awkward. I think that might not have gone well for him.

Possibly not...

Joshua Boyle: He’s perhaps best known for his link to Khadr family – Ottawa Citizen