It just seems like another false bs special they had to drag into a series for money and where they only talk about like 5 bands max from like 2 genres without even touching folk/orchestral/gothic etc; Just thrash, some death metal like CC but only talk to corpsegrinder, and then they'll do another Gorgoroth interview for the chruch burnings because they'll never put that to rest, and doom like black sabbath.

Oh shit, and when they get to 'modern metal' they'll start calling bands like slapnuts and teenangst sevenfold the torch holders of metal

I even saw him on that metal show saying there were going to be episodes for most subgenres of metal like 'grunge, thrash, hair metal, nu metal...'

I have seen the first two episodes, and I think that it is a great improvement over Metal: A Headbanger's Journey. As opposed to AHJ, it has a focus on the musical progression instead of the culture. The first episode is a great analysis of the outside influences on metal, from classical (along with a cool/cheesy interview with Yngwie Malmsteen), to blues, to the development of distorted guitar in 50s-60s rock.

It does make several missteps in the second episode, covering early American "heavy metal" with distinctly non-metal artists such as Alice Cooper, KISS, and even Ted Nugent, without explicitly stating that none of them were metal (many of the interviews and narraration seemed to refer to it as hard rock though).

It's still a well-made show and Sam Dunn seems to have put a lot of work into it, so I'm at least curious how the rest of the show will hold up.

aaq is right, it's not fair to judge Dunn's knowledge and understanding of metal based on this show, because TV has a requisite shittiness quotient he has to meet to be allowed on TV, however, you can judge him for working on a TV show in the first place...

_________________"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

I have seen the first two episodes, and I think that it is a great improvement over Metal: A Headbanger's Journey. As opposed to AHJ, it has a focus on the musical progression instead of the culture. The first episode is a great analysis of the outside influences on metal, from classical (along with a cool/cheesy interview with Yngwie Malmsteen), to blues, to the development of distorted guitar in 50s-60s rock.

It does make several missteps in the second episode, covering early American "heavy metal" with distinctly non-metal artists such as Alice Cooper, KISS, and even Ted Nugent, without explicitly stating that none of them were metal (many of the interviews and narraration seemed to refer to it as hard rock though).

It's still a well-made show and Sam Dunn seems to have put a lot of work into it, so I'm at least curious how the rest of the show will hold up.

I'll base my opinion on seeing the show, if I ever have cause to. Not a fan of Sam Dunn.

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John_Sunlight wrote:

Gif logos are a rare and special thing. They should be reserved only for truly exceptional and rare and special and important bands, bands like Blind Guardian and... Blind Guardian. This should be in the rules.

I tend to notice Sam Dunn and his documentaries on Metal tend to get hated on at MA for not showing Metal the way people here think it should be shown, so I don't think this mini-series will get much love. Persionally, I love his work so I'll keep watching.

Oh dear. Nu-metal didn't test metal's boundaries, it tested its patience. I can understand having to mention the genre for completeness, if only to hold it up as a musical low-point, but to attempt to justify it isn't necessary. The primary legacy of nu-metal has been to create a false reference-point for people who know nothing about metal because it dominated popular 'alternative' music in the 90's. It had and has nothing to offer musically.

Everything I do in life is for the lul. Because why waste your time with anything worthwhile? I've seen this show, and honestly, it's exactly what I expected it to be. Mainstream. Does the same shit he's always done, there's nothing different to be seen here. Hell, the show is more about the blues than it is about metal. Which is fantastic, except it's a show about metal, and the connection to blues only goes so far.

He's the geek that listed Sodom under death metal on his metal genre chart. That's all you need to know about Dunn's knowledge of metal.

A little off-topic but the whole Sodom-in-Death Metal reminded me something I wanted to ask...

A friend of mine -a guitar player- told me once that while Slayer's Reign in Blood was considered one of the best Thrash Metal albums ever recorded, most of the riffs were vbasically Death Metal. I don't know shit about music theory or guitar playing, so I wanted to ask you guys: How "deathmetallish" are the riffs in Reign In Blood?

Don't expect any in depth metal show on cable TV, because quite frankly, they cannot do it. In order for this show to be played on VH1 classic, they have to focus a lot more on the more popular bands. I would be happy that the show is around, because it is at least getting metal further out there.

I take umbrage with some of his genres and the bands therein (Venom was NWOBHM, just a fact), but he comes off as more of a fringe player from the 90's with some knowledge of the movement. That said, as a VH-1 puppet he'll jump through hoops like they all do and play/showcase only what's publicly viable as opposed to the underbelly of the music as a whole. It's a tutorial at its basest form, nothing really more.

personally I really liked both documentaries he did (also, his band Burn To black was pretty good too, sorta death/thrash oriented). Dunno how you can say he didn't cover bands from countries that are considered "non-metal". they had interviews with people from Iran, where it's illegal to... well, do ANYTHING (except beat the shit outta chicks) let alone play in a blasphemous heavy metal and disgrace allah. The segment in Israel and China were probably my favorite though, there's alot of really talented bands from both countries (check out Ritual Day from China, one of the best black metal bands i've heard in a while). Not sure whether I'll watch this series or not. I had some problems with the genre categorization in his first movie, that list of founding bands list was pretty fucked up in some parts, not too mention adding grunge in there is totally false metal.

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LuciferionGalaxy wrote:

I also echo the obsession with Tribulation's Children of the Night. It's like you're biting into a Nepolean pastry. Addictive and unbelievably delicious. And no, I'm not fat.

Dunn's a believer in the "brotherhood of metal",that every fan of every subgenre is united as a family beneath the banner of metal. It's a silly, adolescent idea, but obviously one of the main reasons why he's drawn to metal as made obvious in his first documentary (I haven't seen the second, but given the title and what little I've heard of it, I'm willing to bet it's more of the same).

It's just a backwards philosophy, with people listening to music simply because they feel obligated to in order to feel some sort of acceptance.

He's way too idealistic, his love for metal gets in the way of providing an accurate and informative picture of metal and the genre overall.

Plus he doesn't know dick about most extreme metal, probably because he feels alienated, which is ironic given the fashion in which he touts his educational background.

As a kid he was into Autopsy. He's more of a underground bands on big labels kind of guy. The guy who also listens to the other, non-underground things coming from the same marketers.

_________________"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

Why should we want assholes, posers, wimps and fad-jumpers in our movement? We've been underground, and successfully I might add, for nearly 40-years. I personally don't want any douchebag idiot fadsters in my vicinity. We put our time in and helped this thing grow...fuck the fringe people.

Why should we want assholes, posers, wimps and fad-jumpers in our movement? We've been underground, and successfully I might add, for nearly 40-years. I personally don't want any douchebag idiot fadsters in my vicinity. We put our time in and helped this thing grow...fuck the fringe people.

Spreading wide spread word has has its uses. I started off with Metallica, Rob Zombie and Slipknot and have gradually made my way deep into the underground music. Even members of the most underground of bands with the most die hard of fans will most likely say they got into Metal thanks to Iron Maiden, Slayer, Pantera, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, all commerical bands which apply to Metal and non metal fan alike. The posers might come along, but they'll only go in so far.

Yeah... mainstream bands are and always have been "opening gates" for many people. Back in the 80's I was introduced into Meta via bon Jovi, then Maiden and Metallica, then Slayer and Destruction and then I got a hold of the underground, and well... 20 years later, here I am...

@Pratl1971: Wimps, posers and fad-junpers always come and eventually go away after two or three years. Water seeks its own loevel. Those who stand the heat, stay. Those who are just because its cool, eventually disappear. Being into the underground for almost 20 years give gives you this feeling of "well, all these kids are just a bunch of posers, few will stand the test of time, then we will see who stays and who doesn't"... don't you think?

I have been watching the show for the simple fact that it's one of the only metal related shows on television. Yeah we have That Metal Show but I really don't like any of the hosts on that show. My only gripe with Metal Evolution is that the first few episodes are like the beginning of every other metal documentary that I have seen. Of course everyone who likes metal knows the origins of it and the bands that started it all. What really needs to be shown is all of the underground bands and genres that most people don't know about. I'm pretty sure that there isn't a power metal documentary out there, we need something like that.

Why should we want assholes, posers, wimps and fad-jumpers in our movement? We've been underground, and successfully I might add, for nearly 40-years. I personally don't want any douchebag idiot fadsters in my vicinity. We put our time in and helped this thing grow...fuck the fringe people.

This^

--BUT--

If they're going to do a show on the evolution of metal they should do it right; that's really the whole point of this thread.

I have been watching the show for the simple fact that it's one of the only metal related shows on television. Yeah we have That Metal Show but I really don't like any of the hosts on that show. My only gripe with Metal Evolution is that the first few episodes are like the beginning of every other metal documentary that I have seen. Of course everyone who likes metal knows the origins of it and the bands that started it all. What really needs to be shown is all of the underground bands and genres that most people don't know about. I'm pretty sure that there isn't a power metal documentary out there, we need something like that.

The guys on tms rarely focus on any metal other than traditional metal or thrash, as far as I've seen and the one guy with the blonde hair is always wearing some terrible t shirt like shadows fall or five finger death derp

Also, I'm fairly certain that metal evolution is going to do a power metal episode but with bands like Iron Maiden and Dio or something like that idk for sure though

Actually they are doing a power metal episode, that apparently interviews Timo Tolkki. So, apparently they are dealing with actual power metal which surprises me. I'll probably tune in to that episode but none of the others.

I saw it on the TV guide the other day but didn't bother to watch it. It sounds like what I expected; stuff catered to entry-level metal fans. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Everyone gets their start somewhere. It just doesn't interest me in the least.

And yeah, anyone that attempts to legitimize nu metal bands is pretty much invalidated right there.