George J. Smith wrote:My take on the rest of the McBryde family was that they were just ordinary Mesan citizens, due to their jobs only Jack & Zach knew anything about the alignment, and I think only Jack knew about the onion.

They were an alpha line. Everyone "not-the-onion," and obviously some inside the onion are as expendable as they need to be. And by need, The Detweillers (B->G) mean protect knowledge of and information about The Onion at any and all costs. The latter may be where our Mr. Firebrand may prove useful to Admiral Givens and messers Zilwicki and Cachat.

I think I remember reading somewhere, perhaps a post on the forum as well, laying out the extent of the nanite self-destruct protocol. I don't think the protocol is standard issue inside the Onion. Which begs the question of whether Anisimovna had it before her genius was recruited for Onion use, and if so, if it was removed afterwards. Mainly my thinking is regarding whether or not there is a mass self-destruct button that could be utilized on Darius if need be, killing everyone outside the Onion.

I don't see any possible reason there might be to exercise such a mass killing, even by the MAlign. Although the capability suggests that the contingency is possible and it would not be overlooked—sending out the ØØØ self-destruct signal killing everyone as it propagates through the Malign net (Malnet), making it a serious piece of Malware even for the Malign -- in the very unlikely event that Darius is invaded by the GA and they have discovered a way to interrogate without activating self-destruct protocols. Let's call it the development of Wonder Woman's lasso.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble.—cthia's father. Incident in ?Axiom of Common Sense

cthia wrote:I think I remember reading somewhere, perhaps a post on the forum as well, laying out the extent of the nanite self-destruct protocol. I don't think the protocol is standard issue inside the Onion. Which begs the question of whether Anisimovna had it before her genius was recruited for Onion use, and if so, if it was removed afterwards. Mainly my thinking is regarding whether or not there is a mass self-destruct button that could be utilized on Darius if need be, killing everyone outside the Onion.

I don't see any possible reason there might be to exercise such a mass killing, even by the MAlign. Although the capability suggests that the contingency is possible and it would not be overlooked—sending out the ØØØ self-destruct signal killing everyone as it propagates through the Malign net (Malnet), making it a serious piece of Malware even for the Malign -- in the very unlikely event that Darius is invaded by the GA and they have discovered a way to interrogate without activating self-destruct protocols. Let's call it the development of Wonder Woman's lasso.

I would expect that the time-limited nanite host-destruction protocol is not given to everyone, just those that are expected to need it. Herlander Simões has been away from Mesan control for quite some time, and is still very much alive.

-------------------------------------------------------------History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.

Due to recent.... revisitations to previous events, I pretty much get now why all y'all want to marry Allen Higgins off to Genevieve Chin. And if he can't be married off to me, well... bring it on. Both those poor characters deeply deserve some happiness, and so much the better if it's with each other.

(Hey, it's the "ramblings and musings" thread, after all.... )

~*~

I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."

cthia wrote:I think I remember reading somewhere, perhaps a post on the forum as well, laying out the extent of the nanite self-destruct protocol. I don't think the protocol is standard issue inside the Onion. Which begs the question of whether Anisimovna had it before her genius was recruited for Onion use, and if so, if it was removed afterwards. Mainly my thinking is regarding whether or not there is a mass self-destruct button that could be utilized on Darius if need be, killing everyone outside the Onion.

I don't see any possible reason there might be to exercise such a mass killing, even by the MAlign. Although the capability suggests that the contingency is possible and it would not be overlooked—sending out the ØØØ self-destruct signal killing everyone as it propagates through the Malign net (Malnet), making it a serious piece of Malware even for the Malign -- in the very unlikely event that Darius is invaded by the GA and they have discovered a way to interrogate without activating self-destruct protocols. Let's call it the development of Wonder Woman's lasso.

I would expect that the time-limited nanite host-destruction protocol is not given to everyone, just those that are expected to need it. Herlander Simões has been away from Mesan control for quite some time, and is still very much alive.

IIRC There is a general signal given at [undisclosed] intervals. If for some reason your nanites do not receive the reboot, they fail to reactivate and you die. WSith an interval of [undisclosed] a separate auto-destruct signal may not [but arguably could] be a necessary emergency option.

pappilon wrote:IIRC There is a general signal given at [undisclosed] intervals. If for some reason your nanites do not receive the reboot, they fail to reactivate and you die. WSith an interval of [undisclosed] a separate auto-destruct signal may not [but arguably could] be a necessary emergency option.

I mentioned earlier, If I created the system, I would imbed it in the preamble for Mesan Wifi or Cell phones signals. As long as you have your Wifi device - even if it's just searching for a signal, the nanites would register a friendly "all's well" and continue with their day. If someone were captured, The first thing a captor would do would be to separate the suspect from the hardware he is carrying and isolate him from outside signals. Thus the nanites would fail to receive the signal.

The reason for placing the signal in the preamble is no one looks at it, yet it is automatic and pervasive in Mesan society and automatically imbedded in every Mesan wireless product. All that would be needed would be a line like Y="1" in the preamble and it would innoculously work. Even if seen, no one would know what it meant except the programming in the nannites. No special signal required, your enemy will do the work for you.

******RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."

cthia wrote:I think I remember reading somewhere, perhaps a post on the forum as well, laying out the extent of the nanite self-destruct protocol. I don't think the protocol is standard issue inside the Onion. Which begs the question of whether Anisimovna had it before her genius was recruited for Onion use, and if so, if it was removed afterwards. Mainly my thinking is regarding whether or not there is a mass self-destruct button that could be utilized on Darius if need be, killing everyone outside the Onion.

I don't see any possible reason there might be to exercise such a mass killing, even by the MAlign. Although the capability suggests that the contingency is possible and it would not be overlooked—sending out the ØØØ self-destruct signal killing everyone as it propagates through the Malign net (Malnet), making it a serious piece of Malware even for the Malign -- in the very unlikely event that Darius is invaded by the GA and they have discovered a way to interrogate without activating self-destruct protocols. Let's call it the development of Wonder Woman's lasso.

Vince wrote:I would expect that the time-limited nanite host-destruction protocol is not given to everyone, just those that are expected to need it. Herlander Simões has been away from Mesan control for quite some time, and is still very much alive.

pappilon wrote:IIRC There is a general signal given at [undisclosed] intervals. If for some reason your nanites do not receive the reboot, they fail to reactivate and you die. WSith an interval of [undisclosed] a separate auto-destruct signal may not [but arguably could] be a necessary emergency option.

The Gamma Center was blown up as part of "Scorched Earth" by Jack McBride, and Herlander Simões left Mesa aboard the Hali Sowle October, 1921 PD. Shortly after leaving Mesa the Hali Sowle's hyper generator failed, and the fail-safes of that generator successfully returned the ship to normal space. The Hali Sowle after undergoing time consuming repairs while adrift, then took until April, 1922 PD to reach Parmley Station). Herlander Simões, along with Anton Zilwicki, Victor Cachat and Yana Tretiakovna did not reach Paris until sometime late April, 1922 PD. Eloise Pritchart did not go to Manticore and meet with Queen Elizabeth until May 1922 PD. We are now up to October 1922 PD, and Simões is still alive a T-year later after leaving Mesa and the Mesan Alignment's control.

-------------------------------------------------------------History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.

Having a really large number of people with a self-destruct protocol is wasteful. How many would have died as a result of Gamma's destruction? If the codes were kept there, you could have thousands of dead folk, the most important ones in the Onion.

No real reason to have them in that situation. Also, keep in mind that Harahap went to a real lot of planets. No easy way to keep him updated. Also, you might recall that he was captured once and was questioned...successfully.

I think only a limited number of people got the protocols and those were in situations where the Onion did not want to take any chances about questions and where the people involved could get easy updates.

Simoes worked on Mesa and not directly on something involved with the Onion's plans. Harahap was all over the place. Also note that if there was a simple way to wipe people out, the GAULS could have simply triggered the kill feature instead of blowing whole ships and themselves in the process.

ldwechsler wrote:Having a really large number of people with a self-destruct protocol is wasteful. How many would have died as a result of Gamma's destruction? If the codes were kept there, you could have thousands of dead folk, the most important ones in the Onion.

No real reason to have them in that situation. Also, keep in mind that Harahap went to a real lot of planets. No easy way to keep him updated. Also, you might recall that he was captured once and was questioned...successfully.

I think only a limited number of people got the protocols and those were in situations where the Onion did not want to take any chances about questions and where the people involved could get easy updates.

Simoes worked on Mesa and not directly on something involved with the Onion's plans. Harahap was all over the place. Also note that if there was a simple way to wipe people out, the GAULS could have simply triggered the kill feature instead of blowing whole ships and themselves in the process.

Harahap pretty clearly would normally have gotten the protocols but due to the rush of time didn't. But I agree that very few, if any, people who normally worked on Mesa or other areas believed to be safe would have gotten suicide protocols - the risk of loss of valuable personnel (and risk of exposure due to investigations into unexplained deaths) outweighs the perceived very low risk of successful defection.

It would be, IMO, the field operatives, their direct handlers, couriers, crews with knowledge of the location of Darius, or others who were out in risky situations would would be given the nanite treatments to kill them before they could be broken by interrogation or drugs. They're the ones with the combination of knowing too much and being seen as too exposed.

ldwechsler wrote:Having a really large number of people with a self-destruct protocol is wasteful. How many would have died as a result of Gamma's destruction? If the codes were kept there, you could have thousands of dead folk, the most important ones in the Onion.

No real reason to have them in that situation. Also, keep in mind that Harahap went to a real lot of planets. No easy way to keep him updated. Also, you might recall that he was captured once and was questioned...successfully.

I think only a limited number of people got the protocols and those were in situations where the Onion did not want to take any chances about questions and where the people involved could get easy updates.

Simoes worked on Mesa and not directly on something involved with the Onion's plans. Harahap was all over the place. Also note that if there was a simple way to wipe people out, the GAULS could have simply triggered the kill feature instead of blowing whole ships and themselves in the process.

Who knows what evils lurk in his luxury yacht. or how [undislosed in textev]long he can go without needing that signal. Just so much we as 3rd persom observers are being shown, and vastly more we are not.

Kudos for an excellent line of reasoning to explain why so many Gamma center alumni are are alive, when the foreshadowing implies they should be dead by now.

I knew there was a good explanation lurking out there.

Thanks!

L

pappilon wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:Having a really large number of people with a self-destruct protocol is wasteful. How many would have died as a result of Gamma's destruction? If the codes were kept there, you could have thousands of dead folk, the most important ones in the Onion.

No real reason to have them in that situation. Also, keep in mind that Harahap went to a real lot of planets. No easy way to keep him updated. Also, you might recall that he was captured once and was questioned...successfully.

I think only a limited number of people got the protocols and those were in situations where the Onion did not want to take any chances about questions and where the people involved could get easy updates.

Simoes worked on Mesa and not directly on something involved with the Onion's plans. Harahap was all over the place. Also note that if there was a simple way to wipe people out, the GAULS could have simply triggered the kill feature instead of blowing whole ships and themselves in the process.

Who knows what evils lurk in his luxury yacht. or how [undislosed in textev]long he can go without needing that signal. Just so much we as 3rd persom observers are being shown, and vastly more we are not.