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There is no sexism in IT

Ken, Ken, Ken... There is no sexism in IT. Nobody would try to "make the new girl cry" anywhere. I know this because every time I've raised the issue a chorus, no a torrent of men tell me it isn't so. It's all in my pretty little head. That, or I'm some kind of evil feminist Nazi. IT is all sweetness and light and if women don't make it then it's their own fault.

skelband, by referring to it as a "good 'ol boy network" Ken made clear he believed it was sexism through and through, as did his "make the new girl cry" description. I've been in IT for 33 years now and I can tell you sexism is rampant and, in recent years, it's gotten much, much worse. I don't doubt Ken's descriptions one little bit.

Quoting:Just because a woman is murdered doesn't make it a sex crime.

I shouldn't even grace this with a response. Did you even read the original article? You are also aware that there are such things as crimes specifically directed at women, right?

What Ken describes happens in more than one company. I've seen it, even when it wasn't directed at me. Heck, some of the guys thought that since I was at a certain level with them I'd enjoy the game too. I've worked in a place where a "skirt" was never taken seriously.

In better economic times my reaction was to move on. My skills were always in demand. Now when both age and gender play against me in the marketplace my solution is self-employment., or, to be more precise, starting my own business again. If I can grow it I know some incredibly talented, capable people who are terribly frustrated where they work. I'd love to hire them if I have the work.

There are systemic, endemic problems in many tech companies and I applaud Ken for bringing this out into the open.

Yep, I did read the article, and I don't doubt for one minute that sexism is still rife in most industries, and in this day and age, that is shocking enough.

But my point is that this kind of behaviour would be reprehensible to anyone. "Hazing" or playing tricks on the new boy/girl is a big problem for both men and women, and occasionally ends up causing injury and death. It is a serious problem. It has historically been a very big problem for apprentices: often it is a light-hearted introduction to the workplace and a bonding process, more often however it is sinister and downright wicked.

You may be right that there is a sex component to this. I have read the article and what you quote is Ken's opinion. He may be right.

But really hounding people out of their job with evil and intimidatory behaviour is unacceptable in any circumstances and although women may be disproportionately affected, men are also victims of this kind of thing.

63% of women in tech careers have faced sexual harassment. 63%! The underlying message, even when that isn't the issue, is that we, women, don't belong in tech companies and tech jobs. In cases like Ken describes, in tech companies, the victims are overwhelmingly female and the victimizers are overwhelmingly male. What Ken describes is not one isolated case. It's symptomatic of an endemic problem.

>> But really hounding people out of their job with evil and intimidatory behaviour is unacceptable in any circumstances and although women may be disproportionately affected, men are also victims of this kind of thing.

I'm wondering how differently expectant women, women going on maternity leave, or working+single moms are subject to this very behviour, assuming that there even IS a difference, out of those women who are disproportionately affected by such intimidatory behaviour.

caitlyn, what were your experiences here when YOU had your child or children?

It sounds to me like this particular case is not a gender-driven one, but a general company-culture one. Clearly, lots of people are quitting -- "dropping like flies" -- despite various perks, simply because the workplace environment is rather toxic, at least to "outsiders" who haven't made it "inside" yet -- and this initiation ritual is just one sign of how bad things have gotten.

I've seen workplaces like that. Typically, upper management resists hearing any messages about how broken things are, and how things are broken, until in desperation they "address" the problems by putting out for a few "perks" to mollify the underlings -- and are mystified when that doesn't fix the problem.

@caitlyn:
I'm not denying that women suffer from abuse and discrimination.

But when you've been sexually abused, everyone becomes a sexual abuser.

I just don't seen the overwhelming evidence of that *in this case*.

If you can find some evidence that shows that a disproportionate number of women are facing that at this establishment then I would accept that.

Like Bernard above, on what is available to read, the employer seems to be a jackass of unbelievable stupidity, but I'm not sure where the sexual angle is coming from. There are a lot of people leaving this place: are those leaving predominantly women disproportionate to their representation there? Maybe, maybe not.

The fact that the one story we hear of involves a woman doesn't in of itself mean that the abuse is predominantly sexual or discriminatory. It may be true, but I don't see the evidence *in this particular case*.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if women there are, on average, getting even worse treatment than the average for all employees in that workplace -- but my read is that in this particular case at HostGator, the problem seems to be a much more extensive and ubiquitous one.

There always something that makes me uncomfortable in discussions where sexism, feminism etc. is involved. Probably all the underlying implications of men-are-better-than-women and women-are-better-than-men. As far as I'm concerned, each gender has its share of decent folks and pains-in-the-butt, a bit like Duke Ellington only distinguishes between good music and bad music.

I'm glad to live in a country where - unlike anglo-saxon countries - the basic relationship between men and women is relaxed. And while I'd call myself a feminist without flinching (which means I'm scandalized when my girlfriend is offered a job that pays less to her than to a male counterpart), I'm also weary of a particular type of feminist (called "chienne de garde" in France), the type who has to constantly prove that she does everything better than men, and who can be about as tiresome as the latin "macho" figures here.

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