Posts Tagged 'Guild'

When joining any non super casual guild, one of the compulsory things was the requirement to sign up to the guild forums. Most application processes required you do it through their forums, and to do that you had to create an account anyway.

The Guild forums were supposed to be a place where you could talk Strat’s, discuss guild business, get to know your guildies a little better, post boss kill screen shots, send guildies personal messages, post availabilities, keep track of DKP and ask for technical advice, or write long or short resignation letters. ( yes done that).

Some guilds had strict instructions to check it regularly for announcements, or just to make sure you stayed on top of what was going on – eg what strat videos you were required to watch.

But over the years, at least for me, the excitement of guild forums waned. Discussions were between only a few people, or it was only checked to see new applications, or post when I wasn’t going to be available. There was limited engagement between the guild on forums.

On our forums I’ve been in my current guild since January and I’ve made 2 posts and spent 1 hour 8 min in total logged into the guild website ( and most of that was likely idle )

But now we have a Facebook Group.

Thanks to one guildie who seemed to have everyone on their Facebook friends list anyway, everyone was added to a closed group on Facebook. ( non public)

We have already have Boss kill shots from our progression, old screen shots with the guild, shared pictures of new Keyboard, and Mouse pics a share your UI post – and there have been speed test shots for those who have the NBN ( alas for those like I who aren’t even on a roll out map yet )

I can set alerts for if I want to be notified if there is a new post. I can check it via mobile or PC easily, don’t need a separate log in, it’s not blocked by work filters for gaming related stuff and we seem to have more engagement with each other in the group so far then I’ve seen in the forums.

Generally, I find it to be a more convenient way for me at least to be connected to the guild. I don’t need to have everyone on my flist, and I get a better idea of people’s names. ( because some of them have known each other for a while, they get referred to by their real names rather than toon name, and it confuses/ confused me.

However

People want different things out of social media, set their own boundaries, you really aren’t going to interact with each of your 500 different friends. Do you need every man and his cat ( yes I know two friends who gave their cats Facebook pages) that you have ever spoken to on your flist?. I have my own boundaries. No work people, and limited family. It might be silly to try to keep parts of my life separated now, but I don’t think my mother needs to supervise what I do with my friends anymore, but they are my choices,

Also Facebook is getting annoying, suggested pages/ads/ their viewing algorithms – some people have already gotten over social media, and not everyone has a Facebook, or some people are using it less. Not everyone wants to be connected in that way.

One of the issues I have, is that we weren’t asked did we want to join a group, and this more a problem with how Facebook handles groups. Facebook only allows your friends to add you to a group, but it’s an opt out feature you have to leave the group. You do not have control over who adds you to a group, nor have to click accept to be added.

From an engagement point though, I think it’s a success. Most people in guild do have a Facebook. We aren’t all each others friends, but there is communication, there are people reading it. ( Facebook tells you how many people from the group see it )

Facebook may not offer the same functionality for say something like tracking DKP – It doesn’t have a forum thread ability, nor really a wiki place where people could post links to sites like strats, The event function is pretty useless because of the in-game Calendar. It does less than a guild site, yet the convenience factor means more people seem engaged with it.

However, finally, how important is the information shared in the Facebook group, or is it just another social media connection for the sake of being social, rather than actively providing a real service/function to the guild, and I am leaning to it really being more of a social function then a practical purpose.

We have a few people in guild that use Wow Armory App, and log in remotely to provide updates as to their whereabouts me <— ‘Running late after singing practice’ will be there soon, change their calender acceptance to raid ,or just to stay connected when they are away for long periods. No one has logged into Facebook yet, and posted in guild group. ‘ Can’t make it to nite’

So what function does it serve? In conclusion, just a place to connect our real selves with each other, and maybe this is why it seems to be working in its current capacity. A guild forum, isn’t necessarily a place to play. It’s structured, every thread, and section has it’s purpose, a Facebook group is unstructured – connect rather than inform.

Right now we are running a little heals heavy. By heals heavy it doesn’t necessarily mean that all the healers are available all the time. So mostly it works out that we seem to always have enough healers around, and a couple of healers that can do offspec dps if we need the dps, but sometimes a healer or two, or a dps or two will need to bench warm for a boss.

Sometimes while we were working on hard modes, this would mean a significant part of the raid night, and then we would slowly lose our bench warmers to alts, or they would just would log off and not come back, with no response in guild chat/vent when they were called on.

Now hard mode attempts still may take a couple of goes, and the bench warmers know not to go too far. But we still have Spine and DW hard modes to work on and that means likely some time will be spent by someone on the bench.

The problem with sitting is that you have set aside time, been prepared for raid and some of that time – unspecified time may be spent not doing what you wanted to do with that time, and instead have to find other things to do that keep you reasonably available when/if you are called on.

You can’t do daily’s in a raid group ( but if you drop you don’t get DKP from the mod)

You might get in a Pvp game, but you also may not get to finish it, start farming, start something.

You could log into an alt, and do any of the above as long as you in some way, vent, guild chat, whisper, real id , remain in contact. ( Or you can stand in SW which is mostly what I end up doing because I don’t want to ‘commit to any other pursuit/activity that I have to leave very quickly, ( and I have duel screens)

When volunteers were called the other night, one raider said they would sit if they had to, but they just want to raid.

It can be that simple. “I want to raid.”

Bench warming isn’t killing bosses. It is still being part of a team though, because the reality also is, if you don’t have bench warmers, then you have the possibility of not having enough players at a time when random things happen, and people aren’t available – and we want to do hard modes which means we need the 25 people in the raid. Having people ready in reserve, helps make a healthy raiding guild.

I’ve bench warmed, I’m getting better at volunteering for it, but I’ve raided with people in flexible positions ( eg not tanks or raid leaders ) who refused to sit. Ever.

I understand why they don’t volunteer. You’re there to raid, you want to raid. You’ve committed.

A raid can still be done with less than 25 or less than 10 – but never more. However there has to be a Tank/heals/DPS balance for the content especially the harder kind. Once the content gets easier because of nerfs or better gear then the balance can be shifted, but unless there is an achievement in it most guilds will try to run their current content with full raid groups, especially when encounters aren’t designed as tank and spanks where everyone stands in one position the whole time, and a couple of people pushing a little harder could compensate for lesser numbers. You have oozes that have die by a particular time, damage that needs to be healed up, targets that need to die before you move to the next one.

Bench warming is also where good guild leadership comes in. You also need to keep your bench warmers warm. Keep them interested. Keep them committed, to the point that there are no bench warmers per say. They are not reserves, only put into play in extreme circumstances, they are raiders, but for that to happen, you need people to volunteer to sit out.

So the change of thought is that you’re not being sat because they don’t want you, but it’s to give someone else a chance at… ( encounter, fight, loot ect.. ) It makes the raid group stronger. If in the event a player is not available then you have someone in the position to be there instead, and the show goes on.

My Horde hunter on Jubie is now 71 – she’s in a random level 25 guild that with somewhat reasonably pleasant guild officers, and level 25 guild perks. I am not complaining.

The GM did try and organise a AQ run, but a sever restart kind of halted those plans. There is the occasional banter in guild chat, and when people achieve something of note usually they get congratulated without being spammy, all and all it’s a somewhat pleasant place to level. If/when I get to 85 I’ll have the choice to participate in things a little more, but it’s not necessarily the guild to be in where everyone knows your name and says hi and bye, and that’s ok.

We have 861 members. When I logged off at midnight there was 36 people online

I got a little snarky in G chat with some level 85 who asked

” All my gear is broken I need to repair can someone please turn on guild repairs”

Once, twice, six times, ten times..

“Man do some dailys” someone said

” But everything is broken. I have to have guild repairs” He then repeated his request a few times more. So I asked him if the manual his toon came with when he brought it off Ebay explained to him how guild repairs worked.

“Why do we only have 80 gold in the bank?” He asked.

“Investments” someone explained

“You guys suck” he says. I tell him in chat he hasn’t endeared himself to me either, and then he Gquit

He pushed my buttons because he begged, and he did it in an irritating and repetitious manner.

One of the joys of being somewhat anonymous is the joy in doing your own thing, and not getting involved. * Tells myself DO NOT GET INVOLVED

It’s not my guild, I have no ties or loyalty’s beyond that I would rather it not be cesspool of beggars and noobs

” I need help on this quest”

“You’re level 3 what could you possibly need help with.. ”

but they haven’t been too many of them.

But the guy who Gquit did get me thinking. “Why do we only have 80 gold in the guild bank, and do I actually care?”

So First step was to look at the guild bank logs – screen shot above. The guild perk Cash flow, is making the guild just over 3k a week, but the withdrawal by the GM suggests that it’s going elsewhere, maybe into his pockets, or his and the officers quite regularly. Maybe he keeps it on his main.

Secondly – do I care? I’m getting a free ride. Bonus xp, bonus honor, faster run speeds, ect. The money percentage I’m getting from quest rewards and drops at level 71 and then the perk reward to the guild is like a seagull peeing in an ocean. No one notices. I am getting more out of this relationship then what they are getting from me. I really don’t think it’s my place to question them on so-called misappropriation of guild perk funds.

It’s not my guild, it will never be a ‘home’ and while that is a little sad, the transactional relationship that it is means that it doesn’t matter. It beneficially mutual and until I need something else then that’s all that matters.

My scrub Dwarf hunter alt is guilded again. She was left on Dath’remar ( my original home realm) and I had planned on bringing her over to my mains realm, maybe, one day, or faction transferring her because I don’t have a 85 horde toon, so it didn’t matter that she wasn’t guilded.

Doing the occasional BG, or Tol barad daily got her random invites to guilds – sometimes they asked first, sometimes they would just send the invite. You don’t see as many unguilded toons now a days, as unguilded people are a commodity, they can help your guild level by doing daily’s, or questing and they get perks from being in one.

When a level 25 guild invited me, without an interview, or an app and with no immediate plans of transferring, do you think I declined, no way!

So in probably the 3rd case in the most recent weeks of putting my foot in my mouth ( it’s a disease I tell you, I can’t help it) I quizzed an officer aka an Elder – as to what was their philosophy in inviting randoms like me. Apparently it was only a recent change, or decision of the GM, to open up the doors, but there doesn’t seem to be an obvious gain for the guild, they already got to 25. I’m assuming officers are the original members as they are the only ones that can invite, but they couldn’t give me an explanation as to why the open door policy.

I have been online for a few mass guild purges of inactive toons so they could fit more in,

Guild chat ( so far) is more often a cesspool of immaturity – but I don’t expect delicate conversion, especially during school holis/long weekends.

I may have also ‘put my foot in it’ by asking about what they are doing about organizing stuff. Of course they would be interested in doing semi premades, or even rated BG’s if they just had someone willing to organize it……..

But most the members are riff raff : 900 odd people, no regular raid group, bg group, ecte ct.. ( can I say that without being too insulting considering I count my scrubness as at least Raff, if not semi riff, mostly raff) and guild chat has become less annoying with a /ignore

Is there a need for a guild like this, a rag tag group where even trolls and obnoxious kids are welcome? Playing on your own gets a little lonely, this alt is like my last bastion on a realm that I considered my home realm. It was where I did all my growing up. I have the best memories here, even if no one knows me anymore, and for the little I will play here, I like being somewhere I get access to perks, and maybe even some people who you, know, do stuff occasionally.

Would more people stay in the game if everyone was welcomed open armed somewhere? Guilds are a big learning place, and may, as some of the younger people have learned, ” If you don’t stop talking about your Pen*s I will put you on ignore ” be a place where you learn things like social norms, and acceptable behavior in game.

Or perhaps, this open door policy is just a fundraiser. Warcraft Realms says there are 500 odd active players 244 odd level 85’s and 144 85’s having logged on this month , then consider the people questing, wanting to use the Perks for leveling alts. 25 people ad hoc looting would not make you a lot of money.. but 500 odd..

I guess we see.

I am suspicious of this altruism, I mean who just opens up the door to a level 25 guild? But the perks are pretty good so I’ll stay unless I decide to transfer.

Zelmaru from Murloc Parliament talked about not being ‘liked’ for an unknown reason, and what you should do, if you do dislike someone in “No body likes me, everybody hates me, guess I’ll go and eat worms” , and that has given me a reason to finish this post off. Like Zelmaru I don’t expected to be liked by everyone, I P people off in real life. ( hey that should be a tshirt) but it would be nice to know Why.

This post has been sitting half finished since I server transfer quit AGAIN, and slunk back to Proudmore with the realisation that sometimes burning bridges is a good thing.

I got asked a interesting question in my re- interview for the raiding spot that confused me a little because I had to think on a concept,

“Do you know you will be playing with people you don’t like?”

I wondered at the time, and considering the grilling I got in my reinterview, and the hoops I was told I would need to jump through to prove myself, as well as the general difficulty I had in getting them to acknowledge I want to raid – should the question have been “Do you know you will be playing with people who don’t like you?”

When expressing my confusion at my supposed apparent and obvious dislike, I said, well there was only ever really one person I had issue with – and I don’t believe he is in the guild anymore anyway – but even me and him sorted that out with a long discussion on vent, so we were cool. So I’m not sure what gave you the impression I don’t like someone? ( especially since I am usually uncharacteristically quite in raid )

Was there reasons I didn’t know about that should cause me to dislike someone? – well that kind of thinking only makes you paranoid.

I did however had to think. Who I actually liked – and I realised how little I knew them. I didn’t know most of them well enough to dislike them.

If we use the analogy that Wow raiding is very much like a 2nd job, you may not ‘like’ everyone in the office – but you probably don’t know them all too well, or have an interest in doing so, but it also doesn’t necessarily affect your working or business relationship with them. They are colleagues but not a friend. A friend is a bonus – its a deeper connection then a colleague, and you make that because of time invested.

So sometimes it means working with people you have nothing personally in common with bar that you are at the same place and time to get a job done.

I am amazed sometimes at such obvious dislike and I guess snark I do see in guilds that if you can get past your personal differences and still raid with someone – and not cause public disruption or another officer tell you to quit it, well that truly is a working relationship.

Do we need like/dislike buttons against guildy names? Am I taking this concept of like or dislike too seriously – and that concept of like and dislike are now as serious pressing a button on a status update.

There are people I have disliked – however they are usually terrible examples of humanity eg the Chick that changed Peoples guild notes, and had to have daddy clean up her forum post messes. Or the guy who muted me in raid, and his lovely companion in that same raid that told the only other female to “Shut up you f’ken W*hore”

How do you treat other people? has to be one of the biggest nudge worthy items on the scale of dislike or like. Do you go out of your way to make other people’s games or lives miserable? Do you manipulate people? Spread rumours for kicks? Those kind of things shall not endear you to me.

Doesn’t matter now – I burned my bridges – wasn’t sure who would care if I did go to the effort of saying goodbye, because even with working relationships. When it’s not working. It’s not.

But I am not sure how I would go about displaying my dislike of someone. Perhaps I need to be clearer about those I do like or respect, so there is a greater variable.

Didn’t take long for my then level 83 scrub Mage alt to find a guild. Standing tagless back on Proudmoore and I get asked politely if I were interested in making 500 gold and joining their guild, running a normal dungeon with them so they could cap out their days xp. Sure I said no gold required but will be grateful for the run. (30 min dps queues) So I get invited to a level 13 guild – did throne very quickly- guild xp capped out – and for helping the guild out me and another random they had picked up in sw were told we could stay if we wanted to – but if we wanted to raid we had to app .

Sweet- I say. It’s kind if funny – perhaps i was silly to turn down 500 gold , it is still a decent amount – even with economy inflation, but it was too much to accept for the little effort they asked of me. The guy who did the inviting was explaining in guild chat – they didnt have the members on and it was the first day they were not going to cap it.

I was always picky with my mains tags – wouldn’t sign guild charters or join little guilds in-between my home hunting – joining a guild was supposed to be a commitment and I would rather be tagless then in a place I didn’t care for and I assume some guilds look up a persons guild history when looking at raider apps and I don’t want there to be a million ones. Alts are different. How much rep is a person leveling their alt or chain dungeon running under their tag worth? My contribution to that guild was probably just over 100 xp – but a chain run- even on normals would add up. I did some questing and more dungeons after. Contributed to the next days cap.

Not meeting your cap? Invite us! And we will dungeon run you 1 k xp minimum.

Other then my fickle heart- I’ve been getting some very bad lag on my international Internet connections . Done all the various troubleshooting – reported to a tech, local networks are fine – there is talk of over congestion or a international cable in need of repair. Raid healing with 3k lag was not fun it altered my Healing style – more instants just to get them cast. More on that another time.

If you haven’t seen this animation that made/is making the rounds around the interwebs RSA Animate – Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us and if you want something to think about it’s worth the 10 min of your time. Dan Pink from the RSA ( Royal Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce) gives a speech, and they have turned it into a very clever animation about what motivates or drives us. The talk was aimed at more company’s, and employers – and basically that treating people like donkeys by waving carrots in front of their face is not how your going to get results and good performance.

Note that this isn’t about fun, it’s about engaging people the right way for better results.

I am going to throw the idea out there – that the people who participate. ( Not troll. Participate) in the / a community by contributing things on forums, blogs, boss guides, even if it’s a small community like your guilds, that they are better players than the people who don’t. They have more understanding of the game, do more, have better opportunities, keep more up to date with whats going on, know where the best information sources are also more importantly share what they know and most do it for free.

This is all relates back to Autonomy – Mastery – and Purpose.

What does a video about motivation have to do with wow? If you are reading this, then you already think things about the game beyond the screen in front or you. Your already on the path of Mastery and a lot of you show that you have purpose too, by your contributions.

As per the speech. Most bonus scheme philosophies, in any business or activity is to reward the top performers. If you do better than anyone else you get paid or rewarded, but the study where students from MIT and replicated in rural india participated in tasks found that “Higher incentives led to worse performance” the moment the task stopped being simple.

Good players already have sourced the things that will make them perform better. To get a guild to perform better, Based on the idea of Autonomy – Mastery – and Purpose, it could just be as simple as getting the guild involved more in the discussion of the raid, where everyone feels important, and that they are contributing to the greater plan – and are not just another dps, or heals, that they have voices and those voices matter.

Autonomy, Master and Purpose are

Autonomy – the ability to self direct our own lives

Mastery – Getting better at what we do

Purpose – making the world a better place, and feeling like you are making a contribution.

When I was working on Yogg I had a special dispel spec for that purpose. I was doing most of the cleansing, and I was running out of mana, so I approached my Class leader, told him my problem , and that I wanted to try this spec so I could do my job better. He said fine, and the results spoke for themeselves.

I was allowed the Autonomy to solve a problem, proved I could master it, and then felt purposeful because I could see that I was being useful and helping contributing.

The Workforce wants engagement because engagement means better results, and you can apply this to a guild setting as well.