Gather round people, it's time you learned that JACK DANIELS IS NOT BOURBON!

Do not read if you are planning on playing in the current feud game. It would be cheating.

This isn't meant to be a rant so much as it is a public service announcement, so it's a cafe society piece.

Question #2 in the most recent feud game.

Name a type of Bourbon
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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniel

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

2. I know Jack Daniels isn't a bourbon under some definitions of the word, but it's famous so I think it will be a popular answer.

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniel's

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2. Jack Daniel

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2. Jack Daniels

Yeah Jack isn't really Bourbon, but it sure is tasty.

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniels

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2. Jack Daniel's

I know this has been corrected in the feud thread, but clearly we as a culture have a problem if we don't know that JD isn't Bourbon, because it means we don't know what Bourbon is, and Bourbon is one of the very finest of American traditions. (Non USers, I will get to why you should care in a second)

I do not want to take away from Jack Daniels, which is from a fine tradition of Tenessee Process Whiskey itself. But it ain't Bourbon, and it is important to know the difference. Why? Well I can't really explain it other than there are only a handful of things that are uniquely American, and Bourbon is one of them. Just as you would want to know, at least on some level, the difference between Jazz and Blues, you should know a little about our unique drinks.

If you are not an American and reading this thread, same deal. Just because we are ignorant about our own heritage (and yours) doesn't mean you have to be!

Plus, it's a good drink, and fighting ignorance is always a good thing.

Also

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Bourbon has to come from Kentucky, and Jack is from Tennessee.

The above is also false. Bourbon has to be made in the US, but it doesn't have to come from Kentucky, it just usually does. Kentucky Bourbon has to come from Kentucky, but otherwise not so much. Stop the spread of misinformation!

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Originally Posted by from wiki

From wiki:

[edit] Legal requirements
On 4 May 1964, the U.S. Congress recognized Bourbon Whiskey as a “distinctive product of the United States," creating the Federal Standards of Identity for Bourbon. Federal regulations now stipulate that Bourbon must meet these requirements:

Bourbon must be made of a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn.[1]
Bourbon must be distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume).
Bourbon must be 100% natural (nothing other than water added to the mixture).
Bourbon must be aged in new, charred oak barrels.[1]
Bourbon may not be introduced to the barrel at higher than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume).
Bourbon which meets the above requirements and has been aged for a minimum of two years, may (but is not required to) be called Straight Bourbon.[2]
Bourbon aged for a period less than four years must be labelled with the duration of its aging.
In practice, almost all bourbons marketed today are made from more than two-thirds corn, have been aged at least four years, and do qualify as "straight bourbon"—with or without the "straight bourbon" label. The exceptions are inexpensive commodity brands of bourbon aged only three years and pre-mixed cocktails made with bourbon aged the minimum two years.

Jack Daniels isn't bourbon because it is charcoal filtered aka Tenessee Processed. This filtering adds the flavor of the charcoal to the drink, and renders it no longer bourbon, but an entirely different drink. Saying that they are the same is like saying that Crown Royal and Glennfiddich are the same drink.

All that being said, I think it's really nitpicky to not allow the Tennesee Sour Mash to be at least a subset of bourbon. I know that to be bourbon it can't have any artificial colorings or flavorings but I don't know that I taste or see charcoal in my Jack, so I personally don't see the big deal.

And as a liquor fiend I will say that I don't know of one single mixed drink that can't have Jack or George Dickel's substitued for bourbon and be just fine.

All that being said, I think it's really nitpicky to not allow the Tennesee Sour Mash to be at least a subset of bourbon. I know that to be bourbon it can't have any artificial colorings or flavorings but I don't know that I taste or see charcoal in my Jack, so I personally don't see the big deal.

And as a liquor fiend I will say that I don't know of one single mixed drink that can't have Jack or George Dickel's substitued for bourbon and be just fine.

I would say the Manhattan, but that really needs rye to work right. So instead I will say an Old Fashioned. Jack would not work in one of those I don't think. Too dark of a flavor profile.

An I prefer Jack and coke to Bourbon and coke, but prefer bourbon in ginger ale to Jack. Is that because of the charcoal filtering? I don't know. But there is a taste difference.

Well, if you want to get all technical here, what we call "whiskey" in North America makes everyone else on the planet cringe in horror. "Whiskey" is scotch to most of the world.

I like "Modern Marvels" on the History Channel and some time back they featured distilled drinks.

As I recall, in the US whiskey must be aged in a new charred barrel, with each barrel used only one time. Once the barrel has served its purpose it is sold for other uses. One of the leading purchases of used barrels are Scottish distilleries which they use them to age scotch. Scotch benefits from older barrels because the stronger flavors have already been absorbed by the whiskey which leaves a mellower and smoother flavor for the scotch. So whiskey and scotch are very similar, but still different thanks to the age of the barrel's used for aging.

Eh? So Jack Daniel's is not a Bourbon, but does it taste like one? If I thought JD was among the most nasty things I have ever tasted, is there any point in looking for a real bourbon? Are fish scales and vanilla natural flavours that a bourbon can have?

Eh? So Jack Daniel's is not a Bourbon, but does it taste like one? If I thought JD was among the most nasty things I have ever tasted, is there any point in looking for a real bourbon? Are fish scales and vanilla natural flavours that a bourbon can have?

Hmm, fish scales no...vanilla YES! Caramel and dark chocolate too.

Where do you live? In the sates or elsewhere? If elsewhere grab a bottle of Makers Mark,* if you live in the states try Knob Creek, Buffalo Trace, or Woodford Reserve to start off.

If you want to go a bit cheeper, Wild Turkey 101 is a very good bourbon that is only looked down upon by snobs. Jim Beam Black Lable and Old Forester are the same. They aren't as good as the above, but they are much less expensive.

Put a 1/8 teaspoon (one regular sized strawfull is how I messure) of distilled water into about 1.5 oz of the drink served in a rocks glass or brandy snifter. Sip and enjoy at room temperature.

(*I can not believe I just suggested Makers, but I will forgive myself, because it's for a good cause. And I am fairly sure Makers is available everywhere.)

Euth - now, I happen to agree with you that Booker's is truly wonderful and a higher-quality spirit vs. Jack, but surely as a guitarist you have some love for The Official Booze of Rock n' Roll - which is how many of my bandmates and I have regarded Jack over the years...

Could be that my tastebuds are less sensitive/sophisticated. I'm a heavy smoker, so anything in the same ballpark will taste pretty much the same to me.

Let's not forget that these spirits were derived from times when all men were heavy smokers, and usually of cigars no less. I love things like Wild Turkey 101 and Habenero hot sauce and all sorts of other things that can cut right through cigarette breath and let me taste them because they're brutally flavored.

It's kind of the point, those old timers wanted something that you could still taste after the 10th cigar of the day.

I promptly move that everybody that put Jack Daniel's as an answer be disqualified from the game for Gross Insult to An American Tradition.

Some of us just don't care about whiskey. I don't think I should be expected to know the trivialities of handgun trivia either; I don't enjoy them and don't use them. How is this different?

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Originally Posted by NAF1138

bourbon in ginger ale

Hrmmmmm. I don't like Jack Daniel's and I'm not positive that I've had real bourbon (although I haven't met a whiskey I liked yet). What kind of bourbon goes well here? Should I march down to the bar right now and order a Knob Creek in ginger ale just to see?

Some of us just don't care about whiskey. I don't think I should be expected to know the trivialities of handgun trivia either; I don't enjoy them and don't use them. How is this different?

Because handguns are not one of the few uniquly american products. Besides, this isn't trvia, it's basic knowledge. Like knowing Chardonay is a white wine while Merlot is a red. It's all just rotten grape juice, but it's something that rounds out your knowledge of the world.

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Hrmmmmm. I don't like Jack Daniel's and I'm not positive that I've had real bourbon (although I haven't met a whiskey I liked yet). What kind of bourbon goes well here? Should I march down to the bar right now and order a Knob Creek in ginger ale just to see?

Ehh, I wouldn't use Knob Creek. If you go down to the bar and they have ginger ale, get it with Jim Beam. Old Forester is my favorite for this drink actually, but I don't think it's likely that your local bar will have it. Your local supermarket probably will though. If you want to piss the bartender off and spend more money than you should, get it with Makers. You will probably have the best shot of liking it if you use Makers. Anyway, when I am in the mood for a mixer I like a Boutbon and ginger a lot. Gives the ginger ale a slightly sweeter buttery flavor. Best with a good sharp ginger ale.

Damn, treat it like Scotch, or any other grown-up drink. A touch of seltzer only, if you MUST.

Hey man, don't throw your snobbery around here. I am as big a fan of taking your drink neat as anyone, but many other beverages are imporved by the addition of a little Bourbon or Tenessee whiskey. Lemonaid too BTW.

Not to mention coffee and hot chocolate on those cold winter evenings.

Don't think of it as harming the whiskey. Think of it as helping the mixer.

ETA: HD, Ukelele Ike's reaction is likely to be the same as your bartender's if you try to order a whiskey and ginger with anything other than a well whiskey. Don't listen to them. Better whiskey makes the drink better, though at a certain point you will be paying for a difference you can no longer taste. Don't get anything more expensive than Makers and mix it.

Gah. I get so sick of booze snobs who claim you're polluting the drink if you add any mixers to it. I don't *LIKE* the nasty-ass taste of most liquor, and the coke or whatever hides that quite well. I put sugar in my coffee, too. Lots of it. In fact there isn't a single drink other than water that I like that isn't sweet. This does not make me an unsophisticated yokel, or "not adult" or any other such bullshit. It just means my taste is different from yours.

I don't talk down to people who don't like Thai/Mexican/Indian food so hot it instantly empties your sinuses, for example, because even though *I* enjoy extremely hot food, I know other people don't. It doesn't make me better than them.*

Edited to respond to NAF1138's ETA: I agree completely. I can tell the difference between a crap liquor+Coke and something like Makers+Coke. Better drink, for sure.

*it's all the other stuff that makes me better than them, like my x-ray vision and my super strength, and my psychic powers and stuff.

Hey man, don't throw your snobbery around here. I am as big a fan of taking your drink neat as anyone, but many other beverages are imporved by the addition of a little Bourbon or Tenessee whiskey. Lemonaid too BTW.

I like that attitude: ginger ale doesn't water down the bourbon, the bourbon improves the ginger ale. I like ginger ale by itself--it's primarily a drink in its own right, not a mixer, for me; but I don't like whiskey straight.

Not because I'm some sort of liquor simpleton, mind you; I have expensive taste in rum and vodka and enjoy them straight.

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Originally Posted by NAF1138

HD, Ukelele Ike's reaction is likely to be the same as your bartender's if you try to order a whiskey and ginger with anything other than a well whiskey.

Clearly, you haven't met my local bartender.

I think I'll try Maker's, just to see if it's possible for me to like whiskey. That sounds like a good litmus test. If it's the first and last whiskey drink I ever pay for, it won't seem like much money.

Euth - now, I happen to agree with you that Booker's is truly wonderful and a higher-quality spirit vs. Jack, but surely as a guitarist you have some love for The Official Booze of Rock n' Roll - which is how many of my bandmates and I have regarded Jack over the years...

Now that depends. If I'm up on stage, I'll drink Jack (you know, just to keep the facade going), but if I'm down in the crowd, I'll accuse the rest of you of being barbarians while I toss my shot of Booker's back with pinky raised, if for no other reason than it makes most bands (including any that I've been a part of) sound better faster.

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Jim & Coke is good too, and better Jim in Coke than Jack. Jack's a sippin' whiskey. A little water or rocks.

If you see Elijah Craig 18yo behind the bar, ask for it. That has to be the best damn bourbon I ever tasted. Of course no rocks, no water (unless on the side), and for the love of all that's holy, no Coke.

Gah. I get so sick of booze snobs who claim you're polluting the drink if you add any mixers to it. I don't *LIKE* the nasty-ass taste of most liquor, and the coke or whatever hides that quite well. I put sugar in my coffee, too. Lots of it. In fact there isn't a single drink other than water that I like that isn't sweet. This does not make me an unsophisticated yokel, or "not adult" or any other such bullshit. It just means my taste is different from yours.

I don't talk down to people who don't like Thai/Mexican/Indian food so hot it instantly empties your sinuses, for example, because even though *I* enjoy extremely hot food, I know other people don't. It doesn't make me better than them.*

Not talking down to anyone. Pour a whole sinkful of dishwater into your whiskey, it's entirely your business. But perhaps if you don't like the taste, you should look into another, more acceptably-flavored anodyne?

And comparing good booze to spicy food is.....well. apples and oranges.

Not talking down to anyone. Pour a whole sinkful of dishwater into your whiskey, it's entirely your business. But perhaps if you don't like the taste, you should look into another, more acceptably-flavored anodyne?

And comparing good booze to spicy food is.....well. apples and oranges.

The comparison wasn't meant to be apples to apples, it was simply meant as a way of saying "I have a taste for something that some people can't tolerate, but I don't think they're lesser for it". I think it's a valid analogy to illustrate the point I was making.

As for your suggestion, I do like the taste of a whisky and Coke. I don't like the taste of plain whisky. Same goes for rum and Coke vs rum, for a screwdriver vs straight vodka, for any of the ingredients in a Long Island on their own, etc. For you to say that means I should look for something else to drink *is* elitist. You're essentially saying that if I don't like straight liquor, I shouldn't drink alcohol. So what are you suggesting I do? Smoke pot? Shoot up heroin? Go nutty on cough syrup? Or are you suggesting that since I don't like the taste of these things on their own that I should just resign myself to stone cold sobriety for the rest of eternity?

Welp, I sauntered on over to my local watering hole and ordered me a bourbon in ginger ale. I wasn't too specific about it, since they didn't have any bourbon on display. Turned out it was below the bar. I guess it's not real popular there--who knew? Anyway, they poured some Frenchy-lookin' brand, which seemed a bit odd to me, but hey, maybe the Jacques Whoever family moved to the backwoods of Kentucky during Auvergne's Whiskey Barrel Crisis of 1838. Who was I to judge? Assume-ing makes an ass out of "U" and me, anyway.

So I got my drink and I sipped it, contemplating the taste, noting that the alcoholic element seemed familiar and had none of the bite I had associated with whiskey. I could get used to this, I figured.

After watching a game of pool while I finished my surprisingly agreeable cocktail, I brought my empty glass back to the bar and asked for "another bourbon in ginger ale". This time, my server was a different pretty young nubile bartender from the first one. They had a brief discussion behind the bar and then, while the second one poured me something from a completely different bottle, the first one approached me and asked if my drink tasted awful. I confusedly answered, "No, I liked it". She blushed and told me that the first drink was actually brandy in ginger ale. Well, that explained it. See what I mean about my local bartender(s)?

When I got the real bourbon in ginger ale, I could definitely taste that kick again. Still, it had a smoothness and a well-rounded character that Jack Daniel's just couldn't offer. Sorry Jack, I've made a new friend.

When I got the real bourbon in ginger ale, I could definitely taste that kick again. Still, it had a smoothness and a well-rounded character that Jack Daniel's just couldn't offer. Sorry Jack, I've made a new friend.

If you like this and if you make it a schmancy bar at some point, you might want to try a Cablegram:

Highball glass with ice.
Juice of half a lemon. Optionally, drop the lemon rind into the glass.
Optional: Sweetener to taste (I'd recommend demerara sugar)
A good shot of quality rye.
Fill with strong ginger ale. (Housemade if possible, otherwise something like Fentiman's)
Optional but recommended: A dash of Torani Amer or Pimm's.

You da man! I have stories relating to that topic, but I have hijacked enough in this thread...except to say to NoCoolUserName - tequila was the death of me at UCSB; I can barely get near a margarita without a gag reflex kicking in, let alone do shots. Some sort of animal-memory flight thing, I guess

But I leave this thread for now with this: the infamous "Jimmy Page chugging from a bottle of Jack Daniel's backstage" photo