To be honest, i think the polls are rigged. A 20% turnaround to the McCain/Palin ticket basically tells me that about half America's independants now perfer McCain after he chose Palin then the time leading before he picked her. Thats right, about half independants. The reason why people are independants are because there not stupid enough to be affiliated with either shitty party. But if half of these people now all of a sudden switching there minds because of a fascism conservative in the ticket, no effin way. The polls are wrong, the polls are rigged, or America is WAY stupider then i thought

I would venture that the polls are fudged quite a bit by the media.
That error margin is telling.
A close race keeps the ratings high....and so do pregnant teenagers, down's syndrome babies, and a lipstick phrase scandal...

I would venture that the polls are fudged quite a bit by the media.That error margin is telling.A close race keeps the ratings high....and so do pregnant teenagers, down's syndrome babies, and a lipstick phrase scandal...

First off, as liberal as I am, I refuse to believe that everything is just rigged. Today McCain and Palin got huge crowds, much bigger than the ones before the RNC.

coltraning wrote: though if you read the research on Ohio, 2004, there is a lot of evidence that voter suppression and machine fraud makes that one very much in doubt, so it is possible that Bush didn't win legitimately in 2004 either (we know he stole 2000, thanks to the Supremes.)Greg Palast and Bobby Kennedy wrote the definitive book on that one

books have been written on a rigged election and that's proof? you know how many books of complete BS Ann Coulter has written? books have been written about the World Trade Center conspiracy. anyone can write a book on politics/conspiracies these days. doesn't have to be accurate, just has to sound like an interesting topic. the conspiracies could be right, but I'm not going to put any money on them.

secondly, like most demo pundits say, once the novelty of Palin wears off, the polls will change. Obama has a tough job ahead of him... he has to call the republicans on their bull and not ignore it like Kerry; He has to drive home the fact that he has real ideas to change this country and McCain doesn't; and he has to do both of these tasks without seeming like an "elitist" or a pusssy. GOOD LUCK B.O. you're gonna need it

oh snap! Olbermann is the... man. the part after 5:15 is really what I like - why is KO the only person in the media harping on this? [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM8a3woEWJM[/youtube]"Terrorists aren't what you fight John McCain, Terrorist are what you use"

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Mr. Crackerz wrote:America is WAY stupider then i thought

Gallup poll from 1999 regarding three basic questions asked to 1000+ adults wrote:As far as you know, what specific historical event is celebrated on July 4th?Signing of the Declaration of Independence/day it was signed 55%Independence Day 32Birth of United States 1Other 6No opinion 6As far as you know, from what country did America gain its independence following the Revolutionary War?England/Great Britain/United Kingdom 76%France 2Other (including Russia, China, and Mexico, among others named) 3No opinion 19

As far as you know, does the earth revolve around the sun, or does the sun revolve around the earth?Earth revolves around the sun 79%Sun revolves around the earth 18No opinion 3

20% of Americans don't know the earth revolves around the sun
25% don't know we gained our independence from Great Britain

and then there's this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww[/youtube]

Just pity and despair, at most of humanity really but if McCain wins.............then something will change in me I think, as far as my opinion towards America.

I mean, I did change a little after Bush was "voted" in a second term...........and when you say about conspiracies and what not, some on this board would say I am a real conspiracy theorist.............but I do my research and NEVER present assumptions and non-factual conclusions on such issues of 9/11.

Did you ever see my points and facts about 9/11 in an old "McCain" thread? Id like to see what you think to be honest.

Ohh, and by the way.............I LOVE OLBERMANN!!! what balls to say ALL THAT TRUTH!!!..........America needs more men of his ilk, or at the very least more men like him to stand up and be counted.

first off wrote:First off, as liberal as I am, I refuse to believe that everything is just rigged. Today McCain and Palin got huge crowds, much bigger than the ones before the RNC.

coltraning wrote: though if you read the research on Ohio, 2004, there is a lot of evidence that voter suppression and machine fraud makes that one very much in doubt, so it is possible that Bush didn't win legitimately in 2004 either (we know he stole 2000, thanks to the Supremes.)Greg Palast and Bobby Kennedy wrote the definitive book on that one

books have been written on a rigged election and that's proof? you know how many books of complete BS Ann Coulter has written? books have been written about the World Trade Center conspiracy. anyone can write a book on politics/conspiracies these days. doesn't have to be accurate, just has to sound like an interesting topic. the conspiracies could be right, but I'm not going to put any money on them.

ummm.yeah, and just cause Einstein wrote a book on the theory of relativity doesn't make it true??? Because some books are factually flawed doesn't mean that you dismiss something out of hand you have not read. That is illogical. And how would you suggest we inform ourselves, then, if we don't have the time to do the actual research ourselves? Oh, and new flash, most research consists of reading material in BOOKS!!! What should we consult? Comic books? Web sites? Campaign ads? Fox News?

There is a mountain of evidence that there was voter fraud in Ohio in 2004, not just one book. You might want to read up on it before you dismiss it. It's pretty substantial. Not going to bother getting into it here, but from Secretary of state Blackwell to Diebold's chairman guaranteeing Ohio to Bush, to 200,000 voters getting turned away from the polls in Ohio, to fraudulent voter purges, do not remotely assume that we have an on the level way of counting votes. Like Stalin said "the people who cast the votes have no power, the people who count the votes have all the power."

As for the other stuff, as Obama said, this is the game the media and the GOP run every four years. That Dick Cheney in a dress can possibly be presented as rosie the riveter is the biggest fraud since George W (Harvard, Yale, Andover cheerleader) Bush presented himself as a rough and tumble Texan...PT Barnum was right, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

There's not a doubt in my mind that they interfered with and stole the elections of 2000 and 2004. They did it with the arrogance of someone who knows they are going to get away with it.. and they did....
Combine that with, to the very least of our knowledge, a very willfully ignorant, do nothing approach to terrorist threats in the months before 9/11, the arrogant lies that brought us into Iraq, destruction of Constitutional rights, the economy, the destruction of the middle class, the largest deficit in history, the environment, education...etc..
WTF is it going to take America??????

eff John McCain the candidate... if America elects ANY Republican for president after the last eight years, that will be well past the 3rd strike by my standards... I'll have to finally face the fact that we are a nation of morons, for the umpteenth time... I don't recognize my country anymore...

not saying just sayin...if the DEM'S are so weak that they stand by as the Republicans fix/steal the elections......do they not deserve it?
I guess I was taught if I don't solve my own trouble I can't expect anyone else to solve my issue.

truely i'm not talking sh1t just get tired of hearing the boo whoo

when I get screwed over I solve it and make sure I don't fall into that trap again?

The whole Dems are weak thing is just buying into the politics of distraction and the narrative the repubs have spun for so long... and while the Dems are just as guilty of their own faults, they are the only ones talking about the issues in meaningful level headed detail and about turning this runaway money borrowing train around. By contrast, the Rovian news circus we're getting from the Republicans is nothing more than a tired smokescreen, more of the same bs.

The question is, what are WE going to do about it, Dem, Repub, Green, or Independant. If elections are being stolen, we all lose. What are the american people going to do to demand accountability and fair election practices?

Jackattack wrote:The whole Dems are weak thing is just buying into the politics of distraction and the narrative the repubs have spun for so long... and while the Dems are just as guilty of their own faults, they are the only ones talking about the issues in meaningful level headed detail and about turning this runaway money borrowing train around. By contrast, the Rovian news circus we're getting from the Republicans is nothing more than a tired smokescreen, more of the same bs.

The question is, what are WE going to do about it, Dem, Repub, Green, or Independant. If elections are being stolen, we all lose. What are the american people going to do to demand accountability and fair election practices?

republicans are clearly the more stronger party, despite smaller membership.

GOP accuses the democrats of bad economic plans and tax-raising individuals, weak against terrorism, lack of moral consciousness, and a whole bunch of bologna... and what to the democrats do? nothing. Obvious that in a way tells u that 2 wrongs dont make a right, but seriously, democratic leaders don't even defend themselves on these stupid accusations, resulting in the american people assuming its true

Fact is, politics in USA's two party system is like a poker game, which the GOP continues to cheat with cards in its pocket (as they are the house) and the democrat players allow it. It is disturbing.

BTW, speaking a bit off topic, i honestly think that if McCain is elected president, we will be in for some heavy protests across the country, that certainly can be violent. If Obama is no puppet and at least half the man he is, he clearly is the better choice of presidency.

The fact is I have accused Obama of being a puppet for well over 4 years now, since his Landslide victory to the senate, which he did not have a challenger until a few weeks before the election (what no one wanted to be senator?). Once that senate election was over, they had him already being a future presidencial candidate, which i thought was completely nuts. Obviously, i was wrong. However, if Obama loses, i think my theory gets completely washed, and in essence he probably was the better candidate after all...

Man im in this mind game with myself, with this big Catch-22.... aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!

Jackattack wrote:The whole Dems are weak thing is just buying into the politics of distraction and the narrative the repubs have spun for so long... and while the Dems are just as guilty of their own faults, they are the only ones talking about the issues in meaningful level headed detail and about turning this runaway money borrowing train around. By contrast, the Rovian news circus we're getting from the Republicans is nothing more than a tired smokescreen, more of the same bs.

The question is, what are WE going to do about it

, Dem, Repub, Green, or Independant. If elections are being stolen, we all lose. What are the american people going to do to demand accountability and fair election practices?

i guess thats my point if the elections were truelly fixed , how is it that WE don't find a resolution......I mean shees the dem's are able to get laws passed about gay rights , smoking bans , legalized pot clubs....ect ect ect...with that type of power why isnt their a solution for " fixed elections"?