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Talk Deeply, Be Happy?

ZenShui/Getty ImagesDeep conversations made people happier than small talk, one study found.

Would you be happier if you spent more time discussing the state of the world and the meaning of life — and less time talking about the weather?

It may sound counterintuitive, but people who spend more of their day having deep discussions and less time engaging in small talk seem to be happier, said Matthias Mehl, a psychologist at the University of Arizona who published a study on the subject.

“We found this so interesting, because it could have gone the other way — it could have been, ‘Don’t worry, be happy’ — as long as you surf on the shallow level of life you’re happy, and if you go into the existential depths you’ll be unhappy,” Dr. Mehl said.

But, he proposed, substantive conversation seemed to hold the key to happiness for two main reasons: both because human beings are driven to find and create meaning in their lives, and because we are social animals who want and need to connect with other people.

“By engaging in meaningful conversations, we manage to impose meaning on an otherwise pretty chaotic world,” Dr. Mehl said. “And interpersonally, as you find this meaning, you bond with your interactive partner, and we know that interpersonal connection and integration is a core fundamental foundation of happiness.”

Dr. Mehl’s study was small and doesn’t prove a cause-and-effect relationship between the kind of conversations one has and one’s happiness. But that’s the planned next step, when he will ask people to increase the number of substantive conversations they have each day and cut back on small talk, and vice versa.

The study, published in the journal Psychological Science, involved 79 college students — 32 men and 47 women — who agreed to wear an electronically activated recorder with a microphone on their lapel that recorded 30-second snippets of conversation every 12.5 minutes for four days, creating what Dr. Mehl called “an acoustic diary of their day.”

Researchers then went through the tapes and classified the conversation snippets as either small talk about the weather or having watched a TV show, and more substantive talk about current affairs, philosophy, the difference between Baptists and Catholics or the role of education. A conversation about a TV show wasn’t always considered small talk; it could be categorized as substantive if the speakers analyzed the characters and their motivations, for example.

Many conversations were more practical and did not fit in either category, including questions about homework or who was taking out the trash, for example, Dr. Mehl said. Over all, about a third of all conversation was ranked as substantive, and about a fifth consisted of small talk.

But the happiest person in the study, based on self-reports about satisfaction with life and other happiness measures as well as reports from people who knew the subject, had twice as many substantive conversations, and only one-third of the amount of small talk as the unhappiest, Dr. Mehl said. Almost every other conversation the happiest person had — 45.9 percent of the day’s conversations — were substantive, while only 21.8 percent of the unhappiest person’s conversations were substantive.

Small talk made up only 10 percent of the happiest person’s conversations, while it made up almost three times as much –- or 28.3 percent –- of the unhappiest person’s conversations.

Next, Dr. Mehl wants to see if people can actually make themselves happier by having more substantive conversations.

“It’s not that easy, like taking a pill once a day,” Dr. Mehl said. “But this has always intrigued me. Can we make people happier by asking them, for the next five days, to have one extra substantive conversation every day?”

It is extremely difficult to find an intelligent conversation. Most people seem to want to talk about their methods for frying chicken or how long to place a shirt in the dryer in order to avoid wrinkles.

I seem to be surrounded by elderly women dresses in house dresses opining on the ingredients to their recipes.

I just had an “aha” moment! For as long as I can remember I have avoided idle chit chat. It has always driven me crazy and left me feeling exhausted. I know it probably makes me sound like an awful person, but I always steer clear of people who only want to talk about their kids or the weather. I simply cannot fake enthusiasm for those types of topics. I’m not so crazy (or stuck up) after all.

I wonder about causality: Maybe what we’re seeing here is that happier people are able to engage more deeply with others, while unhappy people can’t get beyond smalltalk, either because they don’t relate well to others, or they don’t want to discuss how they feel.

In order to have a substantive conversation, you need a person you enjoy conversing with. That can be someone we know well, or even a complete stranger. We usually have small talk with people we don’t know as well, or aren’t as comfortable with. Thus, being able to have a substantive conversation normally means being in the presence of someone we enjoy being with. That makes me happy.

I like these results since they match my own experience. Small talk always seems to take more effort and is less fun than a real conversation. It has its place and acts as padding for daily civilities. However, truly getting engaged in a discussion is a true pleasure.

The study is a flimsy premise and hardly a compelling link of “substantive” convos and happiness index — as if you could tell enough to crunch it into numbers. And from a minuscule sample. It’s perhaps more flattering to our species to perceive that those who think “deep” thoughts are perceptively happier. [This in itself is a self referential “deep” thought. This would make Jean Paul-Sartre Mr. Sunshine. Or Sam Beckett a jolly good fellow. I suspect The Pope is having “substantive” convos 24/7 — though can’t imagine he’s a barrel of joy these day. It is tempting to think of those who discuss nothing but the weather or what were their favorite Superbowl ads as miserable creatures. Besides all of this is self-reporting. Lame.

i agree with saki — maybe the real reason people who are having more substantive conversations seem to be happier overall is that they have more people in their lives whom they can comfortably engage with at that level. small talk is something that happens between acquaintances, not between friends, and it only makes sense that someone whose social circle consisted primarily of the former would be less “happy,” however happiness was quantified in the current study. i’d bet that the real reason for greater happiness is the availability of people to have a meaningful conversation with, not the conversation itself. of course, it could be that unhappy people draw fewer friends and perpetuate their own small-talk cycle.

Remember: you can have the most interesting conversations sitting alone in a darkened room for a while. Music can help. Just don’t let all those gals and guys in there slip into all happy talk always agreeing with each other, usually just for the sake of getting along. No, get at least one agon going. You know some of the shady characters you have in there aren’t the sort some of the other ones should be consorting with. But get ’em gong at it anyway.

Just try having a substantive conversation in a group of moms… absolutely impossible. No matter what topic you start off with, the subject of the discussion invariably moves back to their kids. And the weird thing is, I know these women are intelligent and don’t want to only talk about their kids, but there is something about the group dynamic that steers them back to the boring middle ground of talking about their kids.

In fact, I don’t think substantive conversation is possible in a group (another reason why reading groups are so disappointing). Conversation dies when you get more than 2 or 3 people involved. Then social dynamics and the attendant posturing takes over, which kills substantive talk.

To bring two of today’s topics together–Maybe if we talked more deeply about our vacation experiences we would prolong the enjoyment.
After coming back from vacation with some rather prolonged intestinal issues, my husband and I purposefully reminded each other of what a good time we had and each time it would bring those lovely days to the foreground.

In order to have a “substantive” conversation, you need to be a “substantive” person. Not a good proposition, considering the number of people that define themselves based on things like Facebook and Twitter. Perhaps, the inverse is true: people who do not — or cannot — engage in substantive conversation are simply, by definition, not substantive, and are just shallow.

Even if you can’t prove 100% causality, the study still offers some insight. I think DavidG is right in observing that deep conversations may simply indicate a greater capacity, or opportunity, for intimacy. I would also think that a person who avoids consideration of life’s mysteries, for example, might be left feeling like something in his life is strangely missing…

Small talk–whether dispensing it or enduring it–is absolute torture. I would rather just people kept their distance. I do, and as a result I have a reputation of being being standoffish. In the hospital where I work people are always asking me how my children are, because, I sppose, that’s all they know about me–that I had children recently. “The kids are FINE, godammit,” I want to scream. “Ask me something important!”

When you have something to say, say it. When you lack something to say, don’t say it.

A provocative study, for sure. But there’s not enough here to justify people feeling self-righteous and superior for avoiding small talk. Plenty of people don’t engage in small talk and are the worse for it. Take my grandfather: he used to hang up the phone mid-sentence when he wasn’t interested in what I was saying anymore. A smart, engaging man (when he wanted to be), but happy he was not. Sometimes talking about the weather or your children’s life phases is a way of connecting.