Jungle Safari for DC

Do you have more information regarding the cancelled Saturn version of Ninja? I can't wait, providing this is what you were hinting at! Anyway, Core Design is known for scrapping all plans for Ninja on the Saturn, but in reality it shelved both this and the PlayStation edition simultaneously because of quality issues. While the former was only briefly restarted due to Core's imminent dropping out of the Saturn market, the latter was fully remade in a similar fashion to what Capcom did with the Biohazard 1.5 prototype. I've not seen much of the original Ninja apart from a few screenshots here and there, but there's little doubt just how much of a letdown the final game was - whether or not Core made a mistake in rebooting its development remains to be seen, though I'm not really holding my breath either way should any new details about the later Saturn build surface. Ninja was never Core's finest moment in the 32-bit era, which I believe was indeed the original Tomb Raider... even with its occasional polygonal glitching!

This is the article that really got my hopes up, Next Generation magazine November 1995 on the Saturn 2.

It would've been either the best-possible 3D upgrade for Saturn, or, a replacement in the form of a new console for the 1996-1997 timeframe. Much like the 3DO M2 upgrade for the original machine, that turned out to be a standalone console (unreleased).

As I've said before, a R3D/100 + PowerPC based Saturn 2 in 1996 or 1997 would've carried Sega through to 2000 or 2001. The Dreamcast in the form that it existed, would not be needed in 1998-1999, because Saturn 2 would be in the middle of its lifespan at end of the 90s. Depending on the success of Saturn 2, the following generation would not need to be out so soon. Sega could then take its time to develop either Saturn 3, or, partner with Microsoft on Xbox to make Xbox a stronger force against PS2.

It makes me sad thinking of all the options Sega had, and if only Lockheed had realized the importance of the consumer market after the cold war was effectively over.

Since he was quoted as suggesting that only one in every hundred programmers would be able to fully utilise the Saturn's multi-processor architecture, maybe Yu Suzuki did have knowledge of coding for the system after all? Then again, Suzuki later confirmed that he was taking full responsibility for the supervision of converting Virtua Fighter 3 following extensive research into whether such a game could be reproduced to his satisfaction on the console.

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Unless you've ever worked for a manager who takes all the credit, you don't realise that when people make comments like that they aren't necessarily talking about themselves.

We = not me
I = someone else helped me.

I'm not saying he didn't single handly write everything in assembler, but taking responsibility after researching could just as easily mean he looked over everyone elses research and decided to do it.

Based on his familiarity with hardware programming in the "SuperScaler" coin-op era, I'm certain that Yu Suzuki would have at least known Saturn coding at some level. However, you're probably right to assume his taking responsibility was the conclusion of supervising research by lower AM2 members and not any personal work. If there's anybody within the group who deserved the credit for pushing Sega's 32-bit console, it's Keiji Okayasu. While the conversions of Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA were a little flawed, by VF2 his skills as lead programmer were really putting AM2 on the proverbial map in terms of Saturn developers. I've not been able to find any definitive information on the subject, but it seems as if Okayasu was choosing to remain more behind the scenes by the time his boss suggested VF3 would be heading to the platform. My best guess is that he didn't want - or simply wasn't ready - to be regarded in the same high esteem as the likes or Yu Suzuki or Yuji Naka. Therefore, he decided to keep his head down and continue pushing the Saturn harder than ever before, culminating in the engine for VF3 and the fighting sections of Shenmue. With cross-pollination of their best ideas, AM2 then put together a remarkable prototype of Shenmue, though I don't really need to go into that here (yes, for once I'm trying to keep this as on-topic as possible)! If only more people within the industry were prepared to abandon their egos and just get on with pushing the boundaries, but instead most these days are more interested in raising their own profile... when you have great work to show for your efforts, what true genius ever needs publicity?

I really do hate bringing this further off-topic, but yes I was indeed responsible for a Saturn website back in the day. That actually started off life as the result of my college multimedia project, which I created with a group of friends. After completing the initial course, we decided to keep our site going with each person in charge of their own section dedicated to a specialist console. Naturally my department was focused on Saturn era games, particularly any failing to see the proverbial light of day. When the host pulled out, I chose to keep my part running as a separate entity, soon launching the standalone Sega Saturn Website (or "SSW" for short) with the intention of designing a spiritual online successor to SSM, so thanks for noting the link - my hard work in that area clearly paid off! This early version of my ultimate vision didn't last forever, and after a while I was left no choice but to pull the plug when the new host went down. Fortunately the last update was backed up, so if I really wanted you could see a return any day. Of course, I'd rather move forward. Besides, I've learned quite a lot since then, with the already comprehensive (and obligatory!) Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 article requiring major updates before I'd be fully satisfied. Over the last few months I've been toying more and more with the idea of putting together a fanzine in the style of SSM. In fact, the majority of layout and design work has been complete for what seems like ages - no pun intended. Whether or not this will ever see the light of day is unknown for now, as I'm quite busy elsewhere in the real world and don't really want to be making any promises. If this was to be taken further, one thing I can promise is that I'd make plenty of room for MegaDrive and Dreamcast coverage, not to mention the coin-operated side of things SSM also did a great job following! Maybe the first issue will be launched to co-incide with the release of Duke Nukem Forever? On the other hand, what greater occasion could there be for yours truly other than Saturn VF3 or maybe even the Shenmue prototype being leaked? Yeah, right...

I truly believe that VF3 was impossible to do on the stock Saturn, even going by Shenmue. Otherwise YZ would've got it out there. Sure, a game with VF3's name could've been made on Saturn, like there was a VF2 made for Genesis. and AfterBurner made for the Master Syste,. but not only are these games not close to arcade perfect, they're not even remotely the same game experience (AB on SMS, VF2 on Gen).

It's like asking the PS1 to do an Xbox game.

Sega's best AM coders had a tough enough time massively downgrading MODEL2 games for Saturn, and MODEL 3 was like 10x more powerful in polygons plus it had more rendering features.

If Saturn was a Hyundai, MODEL 2 was a Corvette and MODEL 3 was a Ferrarri. IIRC, in Next Generation magazine before MODEL 3 came out, the comparison between MODEL 2 and Saturn was Hyundai vs Ferrarri

Even if VF3 was ported over to 3Dfx Voodoo1, PowerVR PCX1,PCX2, 3DO M2 those 3D archotectures had, in real world performance, 1/5 or less of MODEL3 performance. The stock Saturn's polygon figures 500,000 flat, 200,000 textured, g-shaded was a massive over exagguration of power, and I believe if anything that was what the calculation ability was, not the true rendering/drawing power which is what counts. The PS1 had all kinds of high polygon figures:
1.5 million lines/s <--GTE calculation
500,000 per sec <-- GTE calculation
360,000 per sec <--- drawn to the screen, flat shaded
180,000 per sec <----- drawn to the screen, textured, lit, g-shaded

Even with all the greatest programming tools available, Yu Suzuki and his team could never have reproduced Virtua Fighter 3 pixel-for-pixel on the Saturn then or now - perhaps never. However, that's not the point, because the fact is AM2 got this one up and running on the console twice, only for management to reject their work in favour of a Dreamcast conversion. Had they not been so determined to get their work approved on a console Sega was already phasing out, AM2 could have better supervised (or perhaps fully taken over) Genki's role in VF3tb, which let down so many supporters of the series. Nobody expected perfection from Saturn VF3, though it would still be great to see just what AM2 had achieved. After all, the Shenmue prototype can't have been the only late-era Saturn game to have incredible graphics... Burning Rangers, Shining Force III or Panzer Dragoon Saga, anyone?

Even with all the greatest programming tools available, Yu Suzuki and his team could never have reproduced Virtua Fighter 3 pixel-for-pixel on the Saturn then or now - perhaps never.

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True, I agree. Also, with Saturn and the programming tools available, they could not have reproduced any of the MODEL 2 games (Daytona, VF2, Sega Rally, HOTD, VC2, LB etc) pixel-for-pixel.

However, that's not the point, because the fact is AM2 got this one up and running on the console twice, only for management to reject their work in favour of a Dreamcast conversion. Had they not been so determined to get their work approved on a console Sega was already phasing out, AM2 could have better supervised (or perhaps fully taken over) Genki's role in VF3tb, which let down so many supporters of the series. Nobody expected perfection from Saturn VF3, though it would still be great to see just what AM2 had achieved. After all, the Shenmue prototype can't have been the only late-era Saturn game to have incredible graphics... Burning Rangers, Shining Force III or Panzer Dragoon Saga, anyone?

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It certainly would've been interesting to see any & all Saturn adaptions of VF3, both versions that used a stock Saturn and the mythical one that used some 3D accelerator. I would've also wanted to see a 100% identical port of VF3 & VF3tb on Sega's successor to Saturn, be that Dreamcast or whatever they'd have come up with had things been different.

It certainly would've been interesting to see any & all Saturn adaptions of VF3, both versions that used a stock Saturn and the mythical one that used some 3D accelerator.

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The only known cartridge upgrade for Saturn was the US-developed Eclipse project, which AM2 had no prior knowledge of. In other words, there was never a third version of Virtua Fighter 3 for the console that used such a hardware accelerator because the development team behind this game didn't know such a thing existed. Besides, even if they were aware of Eclipse the most likely event would have been that Yu Suzuki's team were ordered to keep away by management who always preferred Japanese technology anyway. Did those responsible for the American design pitch for a Saturn follow-up seriously believe their idea would be approved over their Japanese counterparts' concept, regardless of whether it was the better system performance-wise or not? Come on, this is SEGA we're talking about here! Political in-fighting has caused so many wrong decisions in the past (if you hadn't already noticed yet), though I must admit to being intrigued by the mere idea of what VF3 may have been like with the power of a stock console - impressive enough in the right hands, based on the Shenmue footage and other certain later Saturn titles - plus any further processing capabilties that an upgrade would provide...