Nor is this related to 5G. Of that I am certain. 5G compromises people’s immune systems locally, it wouldn’t cause a pandemic if it is deployed in one nation, because the sickly and weak people traveling abroad wouldn’t necessarily infect the healthy people of other places they visit in the manner this virus is doing, as their immune systems aren’t compromised yet.

It’s illogical to assume this is related to 5G, which has yet to begin rolling out globally, and only select places have implemented it so far. The satellites haven’t yet been deployed yet either, so 5G should not be a factor in this anywhere, except perhaps China itself where it is currently most widespread.

Then there is the thing about this being a hoax. I don’t necessarily agree with this. It is very possible this is a real virus, a real bioweapon designed with exactly the properties they say it has. How it can make one a permanent carrier even after recovery, how it is extremely infectious, etc.

A bioweapon doesn’t have to be deadly to fulfill a purpose. If it is disruptive enough to demoralize the population globally and shut down economies of nations it infects because of it’s infectivity being so high that not using quarantine measures has the real risk of infecting most the national population of a nation within months, as well as the panic this causes and how it disable’s people’s resistance to any Orwellian measures and policies implemented during these times, paralyzing the populace with fear, paranoia and depression.

In the hands of the jews the perfect bioweapon would be one that allows them to exert control and further their agenda, not one that exterminates the world population.

They could use this to thin the world population by enforcing mandatory vaccination, and create a way over exaggerated reaction to this, artificially causing greater harm and panic than it should cause on it’s own by using negative propaganda and other tools.

However this has far more credence if the virus is real. A hoax can only go so far, even with all the tools they have. Even if the real cause is far less damning than they inflate it to be, if there is a real cause behind it, it is far easier for them to use this as a means to accelerate their agenda, and they can shut down any naysayers and people suggesting this is a fake conspiracy easily as they have real proof that in-fact the virus is not some imaginary hoax tactic.

They don’t need to fake this, and a bioweapon that perpetually infects and weakens people is far more fitting and effective to their agenda than a bioweapon that genocides dozens of millions of people.

Their plan and mission after all is not to kill the entire population, but to enslave everyone and transform humanity into another grey borg hive.

This covid is letting them get away with a lot of extreme measures and policies to accelerate their agenda on some fronts, but it is also harming them on others, as they can only to an extend control the reaction to this and they cannot control the whole thing itself.

For these reason I don’t think it is a hoax, but a real bioweapon designed for the specific purpose, to demoralize the people and make them susceptible to Orwellian policies they wish to implement in order to accelerate their agenda as they are running out of time without some artificial enforcer to open the way for them.

World war 3 is something that can play that role, so are the enemy programs of xianity and the like, and so is a controlled virus deployed onto the people for specific reasons and manipulated through media and the economic control they have to inflate it’s severity and potential harm maximally.

Just my thoughts on this, I felt like I should share them, as there are many perspectives to look at this from, and one should not blindly focus on only one of these, possibly overlooking the full extend of this thing and it’s possibilities.

Personal Growth wrote:The light is at the 450 nanometer frequency and that's a human immune system suppressor. It's also killing birds, insects, bees and worms. There used to be lots of birds about but not anymore I've noticed. And we hear about the bees dying out.

And also the link posted by myself originally with the guy saying 5G can make people sick. He explains some scientific measurements done by the IEEE with their reports of the wavelengths and frequencies in some of his vids.

What is the meaning of life? To meditate daily, empower and advance the soul because the soul is immortal. And to do the Final RTR daily. In the end all we really have is our soul. Spiritual Satanism is the best investment a person can make.

Get some blue light blocking glasses. You can get ones that are 100%, 80%, whatever degree of blue blocking you need. Get a lesser degree for work, a higher degree for before bed.

Iridium coated blue glasses?

Mate I work under unsheathed raw LED lights. I've had a look and tried polarised lenses. Doesn't help.

I had my eyes tested three years ago and they were perfect. And a few months ago they said they have a small prescription for me because eyes focus is becoming lazy.

I said it's the LED's because they give me eye and headache and make so that I cannot focus my eyes.

He said it's a new technology so they're just finding things out now. And that they are trying to develop a glasses that will not affect visibility and protect against LED eye damage. But they seem to have failed.

These LED's have been rolled out without any public consultation and they're banning healthy lighting. And they haven't been around long enough to see the long term health risks.

I asked the optometrist about blue blocking glasses and he said all he has is computer glasses. But that's not going to help for LED lighting.

What is the meaning of life? To meditate daily, empower and advance the soul because the soul is immortal. And to do the Final RTR daily. In the end all we really have is our soul. Spiritual Satanism is the best investment a person can make.

I've had a little look at this guy. He says he's an inventor and it's the 5G radiation not a virus.

Now I've been suffering from the LED lighting at work and I found him by his 5G LED street light posts.

And I've also seen birds all fine and healthy just drop out of the sky and die within minutes for no reason.

The light is at the 450 nanometer frequency and that's a human immune system suppressor. It's also killing birds, insects, bees and worms. There used to be lots of birds about but not anymore I've noticed. And we hear about the bees dying out.

5G LED street lights are wireless and they record audio and visual so they're surveillance as well as bio weapons. The blue light causes oxidative stress. It impacts cell biology and increases reactive oxygen. And LED short wave blue light exposure affects recovery time with natural long wave light.

There are many different 5G technologies. The 5G for telecommunications with their masts beam out electromagnetic/ microwave radiation. It's pulse modulated frequencies that are toxic and cause bodily harm.

He says they intend on killing everyone who has the vaccine because you will have aluminium in your heart and brain from the vaccine.

He says they can also target specific individuals with the 5G radiation beam. Once a person has the vaccine the electromagnetic/ microwave frequencies will react terminally with the aluminium in your brain and heart from the vaccine.

that creep is just a jew.

5ghz of carrier waves is nothing for a strong human being. there are empaths with the jos that are very sensitive to these kinds of things and i am sure. they have no power to cause infertility or what not.

wireless electricity has the power to interrupt the flow of thoughts and penetrate a person and it can carry along with it the less driven kind of spiritual energy and can connect you to things, it can bring the energy of others to you through a phone or computer. (also hearing someones voice helps to do that btw.)

smart phones next to your ear or any soft body tissue is pretty bad though. sleeping next to a wifi router bad, and so is watching a kike on youtube.

corona virus is just viral pneumonia, the more "we" think about it and dwell upon it the more connected you are making your self to the masses as well as the mind control that effects them.

give appropriate attention and concern to the appropriate things.

iran is already in strife over its own leadership and ideals, they are not going to invoke the fury of the US military over a single general. we are on their side fighting extremists

there is no plague, and there is no third world war. and the jews arent going to beam us to death with internet. the jews are going to fail at their purpose and die, its set in stone now. what they try is pointless

our technology has been mass produced before and has failed, it was recalled and fixed. the first mobile phones caused cancer. and they were reinvented.

when the weaklings start to have tumors from 5g, us meditators and yoga practitioners will be full of power and vitality. its not our problem so quit putting your thoughts into it.

Thank you for pointing that out to me. After telling people they all been laughing at me. So there probably is a real virus out there. And it's not sickness from the 5G networks. I do buy that 5G radiation can be harmful to health though.

What is the meaning of life? To meditate daily, empower and advance the soul because the soul is immortal. And to do the Final RTR daily. In the end all we really have is our soul. Spiritual Satanism is the best investment a person can make.

Get some blue light blocking glasses. You can get ones that are 100%, 80%, whatever degree of blue blocking you need. Get a lesser degree for work, a higher degree for before bed.

Iridium coated blue glasses?

Mate I work under unsheathed raw LED lights. I've had a look and tried polarised lenses. Doesn't help.

I had my eyes tested three years ago and they were perfect. And a few months ago they said they have a small prescription for me because eyes focus is becoming lazy.

I said it's the LED's because they give me eye and headache and make so that I cannot focus my eyes.

He said it's a new technology so they're just finding things out now. And that they are trying to develop a glasses that will not affect visibility and protect against LED eye damage. But they seem to have failed.

These LED's have been rolled out without any public consultation and they're banning healthy lighting. And they haven't been around long enough to see the long term health risks.

I asked the optometrist about blue blocking glasses and he said all he has is computer glasses. But that's not going to help for LED lighting.

Zenni-optical.com

They do have "blue blockz" lenses but you need to order an entire set of glasses (cant order lenses alone) and I also do not know how effective these are. Also I bought a cheap pair of blue light block glasses from the Action (compares to a dollar store) which had an effect and made looking at screens easier.

Get some blue light blocking glasses. You can get ones that are 100%, 80%, whatever degree of blue blocking you need. Get a lesser degree for work, a higher degree for before bed.

Iridium coated blue glasses?

Mate I work under unsheathed raw LED lights. I've had a look and tried polarised lenses. Doesn't help.

I had my eyes tested three years ago and they were perfect. And a few months ago they said they have a small prescription for me because eyes focus is becoming lazy.

I said it's the LED's because they give me eye and headache and make so that I cannot focus my eyes.

He said it's a new technology so they're just finding things out now. And that they are trying to develop a glasses that will not affect visibility and protect against LED eye damage. But they seem to have failed.

These LED's have been rolled out without any public consultation and they're banning healthy lighting. And they haven't been around long enough to see the long term health risks.

I asked the optometrist about blue blocking glasses and he said all he has is computer glasses. But that's not going to help for LED lighting.

When I was in high school they changed the lights (TL-tubes) in the room to ones that had subtle color hints. The colors were supposed to help us focus or relax, and they could be changed by hand. (Among the other colors were green, red, yellowish)Quite a few teachers just left it on 'blue' and I often had headaches from them.. Don't even know if it was led or not. It was over 10 years ago that they did that..

Also they're pressing led lights for the street lights over here. Changing all street lights into LED lights :s .. because they use 'less electricity'. The headlights from cars already have LEDs in them if Im correct..

Interesting. I will definitely research more on this. Extreme news to me.

It’s known the effects on the body that happen when a virus is introduced into our system. Like often coughing or sweating and different symptoms we have are literally caused by the virus just so it can spread.

So for instance, usually coughing is the result of our body trying to propel an irritant, but with virus’s often they trigger the autonomous response simply as a means of spreading the virus, rather than their being an irritant, but from what I’ve encountered, without the introduction of a virus the conditions this virus causes would never manifest a disease, in viral disease cases. Thus without the virus no disease would come into existence. The virus creates the conditions, thus isn’t secondary but primary. However, I’ll definitely research and learn more on this. Perhaps this is a falsehood. And there’s more to it, I do not understand. Confusion.

What do you mean its known the effects of a virus is known when we introduce it into our system?

What evidence is there?

You mean through the vaccines they give us?

The reason one gets sick from a "virus" through injection is because foreign material is injected into the body. Of course there will be symptoms and the body starts to expel it.

Not because of a virus...Viruses have never been isolated. Anything foreign material injected into the body, especially poison will give an effect.

Interesting. I will definitely research more on this. Extreme news to me.

It’s known the effects on the body that happen when a virus is introduced into our system. Like often coughing or sweating and different symptoms we have are literally caused by the virus just so it can spread.

So for instance, usually coughing is the result of our body trying to propel an irritant, but with virus’s often they trigger the autonomous response simply as a means of spreading the virus, rather than their being an irritant, but from what I’ve encountered, without the introduction of a virus the conditions this virus causes would never manifest a disease, in viral disease cases. Thus without the virus no disease would come into existence. The virus creates the conditions, thus isn’t secondary but primary. However, I’ll definitely research and learn more on this. Perhaps this is a falsehood. And there’s more to it, I do not understand. Confusion.

Why doesnt disease result when a healthy person is subjected with specific bacteria that is "known" to cause disease? If the bacteria was the cause, why didnt it happen?

Im referring to many of Max Von pettenkofer's experiments, for example. He showed that it's not the microbe, but the terrain.

Lice (or other pests) that lived on rats. You know how cat fleas sometimes jump on humans and bite you? It probably went like that.

And basicly the 'human to human' contact just disproves what you've been saying. That it wasn't contagious. Germs are bacteria and virusses in my book. are you saying bacteria do not excist either then?

The reason I brought up what scientists said was to further explain that the story and cause has changed and they are no longer speculating that it was rats and such.

Interesting. I will definitely research more on this. Extreme news to me.

It’s known the effects on the body that happen when a virus is introduced into our system. Like often coughing or sweating and different symptoms we have are literally caused by the virus just so it can spread.

So for instance, usually coughing is the result of our body trying to propel an irritant, but with virus’s often they trigger the autonomous response simply as a means of spreading the virus, rather than their being an irritant, but from what I’ve encountered, without the introduction of a virus the conditions this virus causes would never manifest a disease, in viral disease cases. Thus without the virus no disease would come into existence. The virus creates the conditions, thus isn’t secondary but primary. However, I’ll definitely research and learn more on this. Perhaps this is a falsehood. And there’s more to it, I do not understand. Confusion.

Yeah, that should be obvious, that if one knocks you with a club, and then you hurt, the point is that you hurt because of the club, and not because of simply "reacting to the club". The cause of the club is not secondary but primary.

I guess these obvious observations are beyond many great minds and it appears too much garbage is being promoted.

Why was my response removed instead anyone asking me to provide credible sources and to elaborate because there is a valid science about it? This information has been covered up for a reason.

I know that your last two responses were also directed at me.

Louis Pasteur experimented on dogs for example by tying them down and injecting what he claimed to be viruses but actually were genetic cellular debris, he injectes it into the nervous system of dogs which then had the reaction of making the dog have convulsions and foam at the mouth.

He then claimed this was rabies...

When anything foreign injected into someone will cause this terrible symptoms such as encephalitis. That's not proof of a virus.

Louis Pasteur admitted that the germ theory was a false and people like Antoine Bechamp, Stefan Lanka, Max Von Pettenkofer, Dr. William Trebing and Gaston Naesson showed and provided major evidence that microbes are secondary and its all about the body.

Dr. Herbert Shelton did tests and proves that VD such as syphilis and herpes was not contagious. Actually now the bacteria that was thought to cause syphillis has been exonerated and now they are saying its a "virus"...

Herpes has been shown to not be a virus but a healing reaction and an emergency response in the body to expel toxins, heavy metals and morbid matter. Its not contagious because kids get genital herpes and those who havent had sex, etc.

Many so called viral diseases are not so, have been proven to nor exist-be caused by something else or caused by vaccination and drugs.

I have proof and valid sources of this if anyone who isnt narrow minded would like to look into it.

The truth is, the human body is what really matters, it is a wonderful and sophisticated creation from the gods. The body is in charge and can heal itself as well as create and adapt so as to always keep equilibrium. If there is an issue, the body will elect to eliminate unwanted matter through the skin or other channels of elimination.

To call my statements garbage, what an unfair statement from you.

I have studied many sources and books and of course works from credible scientists, especially those whom wouldnt be in the mainstream because of the controversiality of the subject, and the germ theory no longer makes sense.

So instead of deleting my post and shooting me down, how about having a thorough discussion on it?

You all might think what I have stated is ridiculous and that's fine. I equally think its funny and ridiculous how you all believe that the CDC, the WHO, pharma and the elite, their numbers of infection and that they all wouldnt create a medical fraud to make people believe that germs are the cause of disease to make wealth while feeding us poison "medicine", and that their harmful poisons and drugs are the answer and they they aren't capable of great monumental lies, deceit and deception about the gentile body and health in general to keep us in the dark...

The only way they can harm us and kill us is through giving us poisons and drugs for example like with vaccines which is a major way. Thats why vaccines are the most controversial and silencing topic.

I understand what I posted majorly opposes what you currently believe to be true but the information is very enlightening and rather eye opening. What I presented can be further elaborated on proven.

There is much proof and many questions that support what I mentioned.

It's very nice to know that this is the response I get from the likes of you.

Like I said before, I believe this has the appearance of a plague and pandemic. Not quite the same but equally as dangerous.

Remember when the CDC lied about 26 million Americans had Swine flu but then that turned out to be false...

HPS Shannon wrote:Why doesnt disease result when a healthy person is subjected with specific bacteria that is "known" to cause disease? If the bacteria was the cause, why didnt it happen?

Well this is where the role of our immune system comes in. It’s not that the bacteria isn’t the cause of the disease but that the body of a healthy individual is able to combat the threat, whereas someone who’s immunities are compromised might succumb to the intrusion.

Analogy: If someone drops red wine on their white carpet, and then has a strong cleaning chemical to clean it up, that doesn’t mean the red whine doesn’t cause stains. It’s just a person has capable cleaning supplies whereas someone who didn’t would be left with a stain. The stain would never exist had the wine not been dropped. It’s the primary cause of the stain. The wine is the bacteria.

The likes of "Me" think that if you keep giving random advice that falls on the medical spectrum with such bullheaded certainty as if you were yourself a doctor, which you are not, and writing outrageous things that you haven't proved or verified in any labs, medical field, yes, that constitutes an issue. Not because of the likes of "Me" however as I tend to find many of these subjects very interesting.

When and if you understand or comprehend that medical advice or saying large statements in this section is a very sensitive, and can be costly, or turn legal, because people associate what you say, which could prove damning to someone, because you add and abuse your ability to give experimental statements, it is what it is.

Not agreeing with you or not taking all you say at face value in regards to MEDICAL THINGS that can cost people lives and you abuse your right to throw liberally with the typical hotheadedness, not me being a baddie or anyone else.

These subjects are MEDICAL, and these cross the borders of the law, which are of grave seriousness and are based on experimentation, hearsay, doesn't mean one agrees with WHO, is a "pro vaxxer of the elites", thinks "vaccinations are fine", or whatever such as this. The legal consensus around these subjects is far more tighter than anything else.

I don't believe WHO says the entire truth, or the CDC, or whatever. But because one does not believe these, that does not invalidate all the foundations of science, as these are political and profit based organizations. Nor it makes all stuff the people who disbelieve them correct, let alone, valid medical knowledge.

Sorry, viruses do exist, they do infect people, and what you said is a load of crap. Ever heard of modern microscopes? They can see viruses. They are there. They have been reasonably "isolated" enough to be observed on UV light.

I believe that millions and millions of doctors that have been for centuries building on scientific and provable knowledge, do have something to say. This is not to say that others or alternative options are to be invalidated, but this doesn't give anyone the benefit of the "alternative" to say just about any bullshit that may land people dead.

Yes, Herpes doesn't exist, that's probably why all pornstars have it, and many others do not. Children getting herpes proves that this is contagious and passed from the latent carrier, the mother to the child. That is why children can sometimes have herpes, or why when Rabbis do circumcise their spawns, they give them herpes very frequently. The mother may or may not be symptomatic, is a carrier, and transfers it. This proves that it is contagious, not an inner reaction.

HPS Shannon wrote:Why doesnt disease result when a healthy person is subjected with specific bacteria that is "known" to cause disease? If the bacteria was the cause, why didnt it happen?

Well this is where the role of our immune system comes in. It’s not that the bacteria isn’t the cause of the disease but that the body of a healthy individual is able to combat the threat, whereas someone who’s immunities are compromised might succumb to the intrusion.

Analogy: If someone drops red wine on their white carpet, and then has a strong cleaning chemical to clean it up, that doesn’t mean the red whine doesn’t cause stains. It’s just a person has capable cleaning supplies whereas someone who didn’t would be left with a stain. The stain would never exist had the wine not been dropped. It’s the primary cause of the stain. The wine is the bacteria.

Let's look at strep throat for example. The bacteria that is supposed to cause it is naturally found in the mouth and throat, its in the lactobactillus family. So if this bacteria is already found in the throat, what causes it to get out of control and start feeding on the exudates. Why is it then growing, feeding and replicating?

This raises questions as to if it was the bacteria's fault or something else that caused it to get out of balance. That's why I mention the terrain concept.

Bacteria are lower forms of life, their job is to ferment, clean and breakdown, so if an issue arises to where they can do its job, it will if given the oppurtunity.

The likes of "Me" think that if you keep giving random advice that falls on the medical spectrum with such bullheaded certainty as if you were yourself a doctor, which you are not, and writing outrageous things that you haven't proved or verified in any labs, medical field, yes, that constitutes an issue. Not because of the likes of "Me" however as I tend to find many of these subjects very interesting.

When and if you understand or comprehend that medical advice or saying large statements in this section is a very sensitive, and can be costly, or turn legal, because people associate what you say, which could prove damning to someone, because you add and abuse your ability to give experimental statements, it is what it is.

Not agreeing with you or not taking all you say at face value in regards to MEDICAL THINGS that can cost people lives and you abuse your right to throw liberally with the typical hotheadedness, not me being a baddie or anyone else.

These subjects are MEDICAL, and these cross the borders of the law, which are of grave seriousness and are based on experimentation, hearsay, doesn't mean one agrees with WHO, is a "pro vaxxer of the elites", thinks "vaccinations are fine", or whatever such as this. The legal consensus around these subjects is far more tighter than anything else.

I don't believe WHO says the entire truth, or the CDC, or whatever. But because one does not believe these, that does not invalidate all the foundations of science, as these are political and profit based organizations. Nor it makes all stuff the people who disbelieve them correct, let alone, valid medical knowledge.

Sorry, viruses do exist, they do infect people, and what you said is a load of crap. Ever heard of modern microscopes? They can see viruses. They are there. They have been reasonably "isolated" enough to be observed on UV light.

I believe that millions and millions of doctors that have been for centuries building on scientific and provable knowledge, do have something to say. This is not to say that others or alternative options are to be invalidated, but this doesn't give anyone the benefit of the "alternative" to say just about any bullshit that may land people dead.

Yes, Herpes doesn't exist, that's probably why all pornstars have it, and many others do not. Children getting herpes proves that this is contagious and passed from the latent carrier, the mother to the child. That is why children can sometimes have herpes, or why when Rabbis do circumcise their spawns, they give them herpes very frequently. The mother may or may not be symptomatic, is a carrier, and transfers it. This proves that it is contagious, not an inner reaction.

Now, now HC, do not misunderstand me.

Hot headed? No. Super passionate, sure and do I need to simmer down and not get consumed with said passion, yes. I wasnt being hot headed in my last response to you. Maybe the wording appeared that way, texting can be sarcastic, unemotional or very emotional. I'll have to carefully choose my words.

I am not making statements based on the assumption that I am a doctor or whatever. I have written in the forums before that I am not. This is obvious.

I understand what you are saying but before you deleted my post, I stated that is has been proven. I never said that viruses do not exist, however I believe, and it had been shown to not be what they are and I stand by that.

I don't think that contagion should be confused with susceptibility. Either its contagious or its not.

All that you mentioned about contagion, herpes, etc can be explained if you or anyone are open to it and I can provide information, etc as the topic is very very interesting.

Viruses or virions do exist and can be seen under microscopes but I believe they are not what they are and that has been demonstrated by the scientists I listed and sourced. I am not just throwing information around as if it came from me directly.

Whatever the matter, I am confident that all this will be revealed in the future as science and the medical field advances and the dross removed.

HPS Shannon wrote:Let's look at strep throat for example. The bacteria that is supposed to cause it is naturally found in the mouth and throat, its in the lactobactillus family. So if this bacteria is already found in the throat, what causes it to get out of control and start feeding on the exudates. Why is it then growing, feeding and replicating?

This raises questions as to if it was the bacteria's fault or something else that caused it to get out of balance. That's why I mention the terrain concept.

I see what you’re saying, but IMO the terrain would be the secondary cause. An unhealthy functioning body won’t in of itself cause the disease, the bacteria must be present. Without it no strep throat. No matter the condition of the body. No strep bacteria, no illness. It is the primary cause.

To go back to my analogy, not having the proper cleaning supplies for stains on a carpet doesn’t put stains on the carpet. You would need that red wine first. And the wine isn’t a problem until it is spilt. The wine can happily be there in the glass and it’s okay, (I.e the strep bacteria being in the throat.) but if clumsy Kelly spills the wine and also we don’t have cleaning supplies. Oh no. But again, no problem exists without the wine.

HPS Shannon wrote:Let's look at strep throat for example. The bacteria that is supposed to cause it is naturally found in the mouth and throat, its in the lactobactillus family. So if this bacteria is already found in the throat, what causes it to get out of control and start feeding on the exudates. Why is it then growing, feeding and replicating?

This raises questions as to if it was the bacteria's fault or something else that caused it to get out of balance. That's why I mention the terrain concept.

I see what you’re saying, but IMO the terrain would be the secondary cause. An unhealthy functioning body won’t in of itself cause the disease, the bacteria must be present. Without it no strep throat. No matter the condition of the body. No strep bacteria, no illness. It is the primary cause.

To go back to my analogy, not having the proper cleaning supplies for stains on a carpet doesn’t put stains on the carpet. You would need that red wine first. And the wine isn’t a problem until it is spilt. The wine can happily be there in the glass and it’s okay, (I.e the strep bacteria being in the throat.) but if clumsy Kelly spills the wine and also we don’t have cleaning supplies. Oh no. But again, no problem exists without the wine.

Keep in mind that bacteria are everywhere and will always be and they serve a primary function to break down and clean up. Taking antibiotics suppress or mask the primary cause which is why antibiotics are either ineffective or temporarily effective.

Your logic is that we remove the microbe (that naturally has a purpose in nature and in the body and always will be) in order to fix the problem.

Why is it that a person can get inundated with antibiotics, for a disease yet the bacteria keep coming back and the problem reoccurent?

Bacteria and fungi's primary directive is to clean up and break down dead, decayed or damaged matter.

What you mentioned doesnt make sense to me though I see your point. But its like throwing out garbage and waste and then when the flies come and are attracted to and break down the garbage, you blame the flies...

The fly is not the cause of the garbage and waste.

Bacteria are not the primary cause, they are secondary and an unfortunate effect is their metabolic waste that also is part of the issue, not the microbe in itself. But they replicare when given fertile "soil", dead matter or any exudate. Thats what they do in nature and in the gut, body, etc.

Lets look at another example, a disease called BV or bacterial vaginosis. Its is a bacterial vaginal disease said to be caused by gardnerella vaginosis. If you look up that strain you will find that it is naturally found in the vagina. So, why did it decide to get out of control and cause havoc now? Because bacteria replicate and are oppurtunistic according to what needs to be broken down and consumed. That means there is disharmony in the body, or in this case, vagina, which is causing the bacteria to spiral out of control.

Another example, vaginal yeast infection. Do we blame the microbe or body terrain. Yeast infections are reoccurent and cime back with women even after they take fungicides and medication from it when they dont change anything about their diets, for example. Yeast or candida feed on sugars and other matter...

Candida is found in the body naturally and only will replicate and grown when given the oppurtunity. They dont come out of thin air.

The best case is healing and changing the terrain.

You mention the immune system, that right there proves its about the body and not any microbe. Because healthy people dont get sick or display sickness because their body terrains are strong and in control.

An unhealthy body just sets the proper conditions for the microbes. Not the other way around because if that were the case, then we wouldnt even be bringing up the case of healthy immune systems...

Your analogy about the wine and the carpet is alittle far removed from the case of living bacteria, etc but I see what you mean.

HPS Shannon wrote:Let's look at strep throat for example. The bacteria that is supposed to cause it is naturally found in the mouth and throat, its in the lactobactillus family. So if this bacteria is already found in the throat, what causes it to get out of control and start feeding on the exudates. Why is it then growing, feeding and replicating?

This raises questions as to if it was the bacteria's fault or something else that caused it to get out of balance. That's why I mention the terrain concept.

I see what you’re saying, but IMO the terrain would be the secondary cause. An unhealthy functioning body won’t in of itself cause the disease, the bacteria must be present. Without it no strep throat. No matter the condition of the body. No strep bacteria, no illness. It is the primary cause.

To go back to my analogy, not having the proper cleaning supplies for stains on a carpet doesn’t put stains on the carpet. You would need that red wine first. And the wine isn’t a problem until it is spilt. The wine can happily be there in the glass and it’s okay, (I.e the strep bacteria being in the throat.) but if clumsy Kelly spills the wine and also we don’t have cleaning supplies. Oh no. But again, no problem exists without the wine.

There is something like ratio x / ratio y / ratio z in bacteria, and let me use the example of micro organisms in the soil here. Using round-up (i.e. antibiotics/drugs/chemo) to destroy or kill everything, in hope of the crops you want to survive is very destructive to the soil and depletes it of its nutrients. In an area with a disturbance of the soil one can see one type of plant a lot, in example, dandelions, or nettles. Both are often seen in cultivated or areas that in the past have been cultivated and the ground is experiencing an imbalance or excess in combination with 'not enough'. In the soil you have good microbes, like worms, in example, neutral microbes, and pests, like ones that harm potatoes. Pests are drawn to the plant or tree that grows there but if there are enough good microbes, this assists the plants in balancing it out and becoming too much. Plants do not just excist out of leaves stems flowers and root but in the soil often interacts and works together with fungi etc. there are even plant species that cannot grow without a specific fungi. Back to the neutral soil. Neutral soil is like the kid that hides behind the bully. Though it makes up the majority of the soil. So if the pests come, and the balance (&good microbes are gone because of round-up) is gone, they "aid" the pests, destroying the plants. Even reintroducing good microbes then will be hard to get the Neutral to switch to the Good side. Its not impossible. But it takes Years.

Back to the human body. So yes that bacteria does live there but it is not your immune system alone keeping it in check and fighting it. It is the balance between the bacteria that play part too.

Also the human body is not a machine. We cannot digest food by only using stomach acid. The enzymes our bodies produces only make it easier to digest but we have bacteria in our gut that transforms certain substances into vitamin K, in example.

My argument is that the unhealthy body is not the primary reason for illness, but however secondary because as I said, the unequipped immune system doesn’t mean a person will be ill. There must be a situation in the body to cause the illness that the immune system can’t fight off. Thus imo the bacteria is the primary cause of illness. This is illness 101.

That’s my perspective, but I understand what you’re saying, I think. That maintaining the body is key, so when threats come we can handle it and that should be the focus. But this isn’t necessarily so. Even healthy individuals can succumb to bacterial illnesses. This is proven by when healthy people introduce themselves to foreign bacteria they haven’t dealt with before, they fall ill. This is why children and infants fall ill so often. They haven’t been exposed to anything. The body/terrain may be healthy in every respect, but is still unequipped to deal with the new threat. Again illness 101.

The examples you brought up are valid examples but don’t definitively prove your point. It isn’t black and white is what it proves. Because healthy people can become ill from bacteria and viruses. The severity of the illness would likely be lower from an infected but otherwise healthy individual, however.

So primary? Secondary cause? I think it isn’t black and white? But one things for sure, and that’s that bacteria and viruses do adjust the functions of the body for better or worse and in the worse situations, without them, there can be no illness. Which isn’t the case for a healthy person, whom as I’ll say again, indeed can fall ill to certain bacteria or viruses.

I don't know about Iridium-coated glasses, rather just simple blue-wavelength filtering glasses. For most people, it is the blue wavelength component of LED's which can prove bothersome. Does the sun also bother you, being bright like LED's? If not, then it is likely the blue light, since LED's are heavily comprised of blue light, whereas the sun is balanced with red light.

I'm sort of still trying to get caught up with information here but hopefully I'll be able to make my points cogently.

HPS Shannon wrote:Let's look at strep throat for example. The bacteria that is supposed to cause it is naturally found in the mouth and throat, its in the lactobactillus family. So if this bacteria is already found in the throat, what causes it to get out of control and start feeding on the exudates. Why is it then growing, feeding and replicating?

This raises questions as to if it was the bacteria's fault or something else that caused it to get out of balance. That's why I mention the terrain concept.

We learned recently about the various ways that bacteria can exchange genetic information with each other. In some cases they can even just come across free genetic material and just take it into their own genome. Then there's things like "bacterial sex" as they call it for simplicity where the cells will actually get all close to each other and transmit genetic material from one to another. This can happen even with dead microbes, and is very useful for helping bacteria evolve and adapt to their environment(s).

There's an experiment that I can't recall the name of, nor the name of the bacteria, but I'll break it down into a usable example:

There's this bacteria, Bacteria A we'll call it, that if you inject it into a rat, the rat will get sick and die. However, it was observed that if you killed the microbes via heating and then injected them into the rat, the rat's A-okay, no pun intended. These microbes, being dead, are not doing whatever it is they're doing that causes the rat to become ill and die.

Then you have Bacteria B. It was observed that, whether alive or killed via heating, you could inject B into a rat and it would not fall ill. B simply does not cause adverse effects for the rat when injected. It was also observed that if you mixed killed-via-heating B with killed-via-heating A microbes and injected them into a rat, the rat would still live and be healthy.

However.

If you were to mix living B microbes with killed-via-heating A microbes, the rat would develop the same complications as if he were injected with living A microbes, and would die. It was deduced - and I believe observed via genetic sequencing though I'll need to confirm that - that whatever it was about A that caused the rats to die, even though the A microbes were dead, the still-living B microbes were able to obtain that genetic information, encode it into their own genome, and take on those traits, thus killing the rats.

Your strep throat example reminded me of this, because even though this is just my hypothesis as someone who is still learning and hasn't worked with bacteria in an official capacity, I do believe this could be an explanation to why the bacteria that's naturally found within the throat would suddenly become infectious. If this is indeed the case, then I'd say you're right in the sense that it's not the bacteria's fault outright. Something else was introduced to the bacteria to transform it into a pathogen.

I also want to say that upon reading a few posts here, I am not certain that Eric13 and others are claiming that all microbes/bacteria are bad, or that because some cause illness, obviously all must do that or at the very least are not good for the body. It is proven, as you've pointed out, that we have a vast microbiome within and without that does wonderful things in keeping our bodies protected and healthy. There are microbes in the skin so deeply entrenched that they can't be easily removed via washing with soap, and these microbes are key in fighting off infections of wounds and the like. Same with our gut microbiome, which I can tell you already know is critical to healthy digestion. Which brings me to a point about viruses:

HPS Shannon wrote:Try removing bacteria from your gut and see how that turns out.

Thats why antibiotics causes horrible flatulence, indigestion, candida over growth, etc because they remove and kill the bacteria from your gut that is needed to break down food and toxins.

Which is EATING probiotics gives one good digestion because it BREAKS down matter and unwanted material and waste.

There are viruses, bacteriophages, that reproduce by infecting bacterial cells, using the bacterial cell to assemble more of itself within, and then lysing (AKA killing) the cell and allowing all the new little viruses to roam free and infect more bacteria. This can be demonstrated when you have a pure culture of bacteria and then you introduce bacteriophages in certain spots. You can observe a growing zone of dead bacteria as the viruses infect the cells to reproduce and spread, and can even observe this process outright with the right (expensive) equipment and take pictures.

So say you have a bacteriophage that gets into your gut. It'll proceed to start infecting and killing all that healthy gut bacteria in a similar fashion to antibiotics. As a direct consequence, you'll start to experience symptoms like what you mentioned - flatulence, indigestion, and so on - because the healthy gut bacteria are being killed off by the spread of this bacteriophage. I bring this up because indeed, many symptoms of illness are in fact the body's own response to the presence of pathogens. A runny nose and inflammation are the two most immediate examples that come to my mind, personally. But I think the example above would instead fall into the category of symptoms that are being caused by the virus itself, instead of the body's reaction to it, since it's killing the healthy gut bacteria that we need for a properly functioning digestive system. And without that bacteria, as you pointed out, we struggle to break down food and remove toxins.

I hate to be that middle-of-the-fence fellow but I really do see it being a combination of factors here from both sides of the aisle.

In a world where harmful microbes or viruses wouldn’t exist, you would never get sick, regardless of how unhealthy or unhygienic you would be.

It is the microbe or virus that causes the illness. The “terrain” can only get sick if there are harmful particles that can infect it. Without those present it doesn’t matter how unbalanced or weak the terrain is, it will never get sick.

Having an unbalanced or weak body makes you more susceptible to illness, as your immune system and the other regulatory systems of the body are compromised, thus microbes and viruses face less resistance when entering the body and can proliferate unimpeded, causing you to get sick badly even from benign viruses or bacteria if the body is compromised enough.

This is quite common knowledge.

Even with a healthy immune system you are are not immune to illness. Just more resistant. The harsher the virus or bacteria infecting a person, the more it strains the immune system. There’s many very nasty viruses and bacteria out there that can infect even the healthiest of people and make them deadly sick if they so much as touch a door handle that is contaminated.

When a virus enters the body, it starts infecting cells, and proliferating. One viral cell becomes 2, 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8. After a few minutes you will have a few thousand infected cells and after a day you will have millions.

The bodies white blood cells notice these invading particles and identify them, or try to at least, and take them out. Which causes mild symptoms most of the time as with a regular flue, where one might at most feel a little headache or have a low fever for a short while, or one might not even catch it if your immune system is functioning well enough to catch and fight of the virus in it’s initial stages when it is slowly multiplying.

In case where your immune system is compromised or you are infected with a harsh virus, the body cannot fight it effectively and the virus proliferates continuously. A few days after infection there will be many millions of infected cells which causes significant harm to the body as the infected cells cannot perform their normal functions anymore.

So if you can’t beat the virus, and can’t get treatment for it, you just die as the body shuts down slowly.

Even a regular flue virus, like the influenza virus as it is called, can kill you, but it normally doesn’t because our immune systems are strong enough to fight and overcome those viruses on their own.

These are also definitely contagious. All viruses are, same as all microbial infections.

Not all viruses are contagious on the same level, but you can be guaranteed if you end up exchanging blood with a sick person, such as you have a small wound and a few drops of blood from a person sick with any illness or bacterial infection drop into the wound, you will get sick too, as the virus/bacteria are guaranteed to have entered your bloodstream through that wound, and will likely be able to develop enough to make you sick for a while.

Some are contagious through skin contact, others through breath (sneezing, coughing), others intercourse, saliva, waste, mucous membranes. What have you.

All of this is like very basic knowledge and common sense. I’m really not sure why anyone is arguing against this. It has nothing to do with anti-vaxxing or something, it’s just how viruses work.

Denying reality and pretending it is different somehow is extremely harmful. We aren’t saying here that vaccines can’t be bad for you, or that some viruses might be fake/exaggerated, but you cannot deny these exist and are what they are.

Denying virology is no different than believing in flat earth.

Even if some viruses aren’t real or some vaccines were created to do harm and have no other purpose, that doesn’t mean a vaccine can’t be helpful in treating a deadly virus, and doesn’t mean viruses are all made up or something.

Also, your example about yeast infection and candida is unrelated to this. These are fungal and spore related infections, not bacterial or viral. These are completely different things and affect the body completely differently.

They also need to be treated differently.

Yeast, candida and any other spore/fungal based infections aren’t really fought by your immune system. Only if the spores enter the bloodstream (in which case you are pretty fucked as these are extremely hardy and difficult to remove for your body when they enter the bloodstream, which normally doesn’t happen), will your white blood cells go at them.

It is more related to the gut balance, diet, endocrine system, the lymph system and topological health and hygiene.

They are entirely different microbes and the body handles them completely differently, treatments to problems with this are also completely different from what one needs for a viral or bacterial infection.

The only thing they do is compromise your immune system when they are present through various means. I don’t know the exact ways they do it, but it is clear they compromise the vitality of a person and as a result make one more susceptible to viral or bacterial illnesses/infections.

HPS Shannon wrote:Try removing bacteria from your gut and see how that turns out.

Thats why antibiotics causes horrible flatulence, indigestion, candida over growth, etc because they remove and kill the bacteria from your gut that is needed to break down food and toxins.

Which is EATING probiotics gives one good digestion because it BREAKS down matter and unwanted material and waste.

OK and how does that justify that bacteria are not harmful? This only proves they have positive functions under specific conditions, not that all bacteria are universally positive or as claimed not harmful.

The harm or positive is under condition, and does not decide the purpose of the organism itself. Or that viruses do not exist? They are neither good nor harmful depending on their populations and conditions which can bring out different attributes, which can lead to disease or not lead to disease.

Under specific situations they may lead to health, but this is in few places like the gut and few other places. The same bacteria on the brain or anywhere else, can kill someone. This was always well known. Nobody said they are entirely bad. Basically the only reason they are good and not harmful is that they are in a manageable number, not because of function. If they increase or decrease, one starts having problems.

Many people get sick and never show symptoms. That doesn't mean the balance of the body has not been thrown out. Many people, tend to have many conditions which are latent to them "show no symptom", until a quick point of fatality or spreading, and they are not healthy.

The body does not react to everything nor it is always and for all people the "Super machine" that many people claim it is. Some people have real bad immunity, and even lower defenses.

HPS Shannon wrote:Try removing bacteria from your gut and see how that turns out.

Thats why antibiotics causes horrible flatulence, indigestion, candida over growth, etc because they remove and kill the bacteria from your gut that is needed to break down food and toxins.

Which is EATING probiotics gives one good digestion because it BREAKS down matter and unwanted material and waste.

OK and how does that justify that bacteria are not harmful? This only proves they have positive functions under specific conditions, not that all bacteria are universally positive or as claimed not harmful.

The harm or positive is under condition, and does not decide the purpose of the organism itself. Or that viruses do not exist? They are neither good nor harmful depending on their populations and conditions which can bring out different attributes, which can lead to disease or not lead to disease.

Under specific situations they may lead to health, but this is in few places like the gut and few other places. The same bacteria on the brain or anywhere else, can kill someone. This was always well known. Nobody said they are entirely bad. Basically the only reason they are good and not harmful is that they are in a manageable number, not because of function. If they increase or decrease, one starts having problems.

Many people get sick and never show symptoms. That doesn't mean the balance of the body has not been thrown out. Many people, tend to have many conditions which are latent to them "show no symptom", until a quick point of fatality or spreading, and they are not healthy.

The body does not react to everything nor it is always and for all people the "Super machine" that many people claim it is. Some people have real bad immunity, and even lower defenses.

Notice I said "information" and not "knowledge". The two are different in that information can be anything relayed from any source, true or false. Knowledge is a factual given where the accuracy of what is shared is concrete.

I had flesh eating disease once after I injured my leg many, many years ago. I don't believe for even a second that my body suddenly decided it didn't feel like healing the wound so it might as well die instead. Almost lost the darn limb, and if it was a reaction from my body then the emergency surgery to completely shave off that layer of flesh wouldn't have stopped it, it would've started up again.

Our immune systems exist for a reason, because microbial threats are very real, if our immune system fought off every "foreign" body we would be allergic to everything we touch and consume. The things your saying Shannon is a flat-earther, transitional-fossils-don't-exist, we-live-in-a-computer-simulation kind of way of going about things and it's honestly rather innappropriate to hold so firmly to it as if you were the only 'woke' individual on the topic and we're all just a bunch of idiots because you "did your research".

There are plenty of ways one can 'prove' that the earth is flat, or that evolution isn't real and all the fossils were made, or that we live in a simulation. These people hold so desperately and strongly to these beliefs because the "proof" for them makes sense. Our minds are impressionable to logic, but not all 'logic' is accurate. What makes sense to us logically is what is taken more strictly as truth. I think you found something that made too much sense in that context and then dove straight into it like you discovered the long lost truth of the meaning of existence. And of course you'll find further information because you're not the only one who believes it. This however does not make it truth nor does it validate it in any way.

How many people would fall for it if I wrote a book called "The Lies of The Skies", used some sciency words and said " "Rayleigh scattering" is a myth, they're lying to us. The red colour of the sky during sunset isn't because of "rayleigh scattering", it's because the continuum of atmospheric pressure at higher latitudes condenses the sun's thermodynamic wavelengths upon the nitrogen gasses of which makes up 78% of the air we breathe to produce plasmic particles across the longitude of the Earth's atmosphere.

In other words the sky is technically on fire and no airplane ever goes high enough to that level in our atmosphere to experience it. Why do you think rockets that go out to space never do so during sunrise or sunset despite it being a most beautiful and perfect scene to witness? They're hiding the truth from us."

I really think you all are misunderstanding me. I never said that bacteria cannot be harmful, they dont exist or cannot cause issues with their metabolic processes, etc, etc, Its a complicated discussion. I'm talking about susceptibility and a healthy body is paramount.

Most people are weakened and not as healthy as we really should be. There are many variables and factors and I'm not shunning or dismissing basic microbiology, that would be ridiculous.

HPS Shannon wrote:I really think you all are misunderstanding me. I never said that bacteria cannot be harmful, they dont exist or cannot cause issues with their metabolic processes, etc, etc, Its a complicated discussion. I'm talking about susceptibility and a healthy body is paramount.

Most people are weakened and not as healthy as we really should be. There are many variables and factors and I'm not shunning or dismissing basic microbiology, that would be ridiculous.

But you know what, we'll leave it at that.

Thanks.

And seriously now, flat earther comparisons and such?

It's not what you say, it's what others interpret as what is implied, which is a whole other territory in and of itself and you only need to see what you're saying from someone else's eyes.

I very much so understand the passion you have, I'm very fanatical in areas myself but I also remember that this has made me a bit delusional in a sense in the past regarding this very fanaticism, and since the beginning of this year I've been continually making sure to keep it in check by grounding myself. You get ecstatic and excitable and want to share every single theory, speculation, trial and deduction you've made, but the excitability blinds you from the objective reality of which you're constantly living in a "what if!" mindset and then taking it to heart.

The spiral I had around the end of last year was surprisingly devastating to me when it was brought to my attention and I finally actually saw it, and looking at my older posts now after correcting it is like looking at someone else. I just want to make sure you're all right and that you don't end up in that same spiral I had to dig out of.

A lot of energy goes into what we love, but we need to make sure it doesn't consume us. And I mean really make sure, you can't just say you are because I told myself last year that I "had it under control" but I didn't because I wasn't taking it seriously. I had to legitimately separate myself at one point and actually fight to break free of what I fell into.

I'm saying all this because I care and I'm looking out for you. If you want, we can discuss this in private by email, I did send you something to check up on you when you suddenly went absent for over a week but never got any response. Decision is yours though.

I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm one of your allies, remember? And allies have each others backs.

HPS Shannon wrote:I really think you all are misunderstanding me. I never said that bacteria cannot be harmful, they dont exist or cannot cause issues with their metabolic processes, etc, etc, Its a complicated discussion. I'm talking about susceptibility and a healthy body is paramount.

Most people are weakened and not as healthy as we really should be. There are many variables and factors and I'm not shunning or dismissing basic microbiology, that would be ridiculous.

But you know what, we'll leave it at that.

Thanks.

And seriously now, flat earther comparisons and such?

It's not what you say, it's what others interpret as what is implied, which is a whole other territory in and of itself and you only need to see what you're saying from someone else's eyes.

I very much so understand the passion you have, I'm very fanatical in areas myself but I also remember that this has made me a bit delusional in a sense in the past regarding this very fanaticism, and since the beginning of this year I've been continually making sure to keep it in check by grounding myself. You get ecstatic and excitable and want to share every single theory, speculation, trial and deduction you've made, but the excitability blinds you from the objective reality of which you're constantly living in a "what if!" mindset and then taking it to heart.

The spiral I had around the end of last year was surprisingly devastating to me when it was brought to my attention and I finally actually saw it, and looking at my older posts now after correcting it is like looking at someone else. I just want to make sure you're all right and that you don't end up in that same spiral I had to dig out of.

A lot of energy goes into what we love, but we need to make sure it doesn't consume us. And I mean really make sure, you can't just say you are because I told myself last year that I "had it under control" but I didn't because I wasn't taking it seriously. I had to legitimately separate myself at one point and actually fight to break free of what I fell into.

I'm saying all this because I care and I'm looking out for you. If you want, we can discuss this in private by email, I did send you something to check up on you when you suddenly went absent for over a week but never got any response. Decision is yours though.

I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm one of your allies, remember? And allies have each others backs.

Dont assume by saying "the decision is yours."

I didnt receive an email by you. When did you send it? Maybe went into spam.

how is it called again when you attack the character instead of the argument? oh yea ad hominem, you have nothing

Why are you instigating hostility over a comparison perception that was founded upon concern for a fellow ally of which had nothing to do with you?

When you're spontaneously defensive about something you believe in that literally nobody challenged you about to begin with, it means you actually have zero faith in what you believe in and are only seeking a means to comfort what deep down you know is a delusion, and that kind of behaviour is of a very xian based mindset.

I don't need to 'have' something on you per say, you've very much confirmed your own imprisonment of illusion.