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That' sad. Like any tool, when used properly, it increases productivity. It's not appropriate for all conversations, but it is extremely effective for quick exchanges. Email takes too long and arranging phone calls can burn wall time too. Suggested reading "Mythical Man Month" by Fred Brooks.

The major problems are timezones and language barriers. Simple e-mail has always worked best for me

Language? For sure. Queen's English <> English

Timezone? I gotta disagree with you on this one. I use the time zone to our advantage. By having folks doing work in a 12+ time zone (relative to me), the project work never stops. When organized properly, it's super productive.

Really? have you ever worked with an Indian offshore development team? and that is not a criticism, simply the result of bitter experience.

Even with a university degree in a language you will not be more capable than a local eighth grader................ and you won't have the technical vocabulary and business knowledge either. If you are talking an ex-patriot team then it might work, but that is no different from having local people work shifts?

I use the time zone to our advantage. By having folks doing work in a 12+ time zone (relative to me), the project work never stops. When organized properly, it's super productive.

And how do you "organise" that? Sure, I could see it working for a typing pool, or shed full of code monkeys but not for a full life-cycle cradle to grave project. You have to deal with users and the corporate management hierarchy for a start.

What structured methodologies do you use, and what tools to support them?

Anyways, who is there 12 +/- from you that you would actually trust?

Where I can see the IM working well is in North America, where you all have the same lingo, and your timezones are only +/- 3 hours?

Over here we are part of EMEA, where you basically have the same time differentials, but the language problem exists. I far prefer an e-mail that the guy can have a think about and run it past others before responding.

Wow, ain't been to this site in months and months.....a quick glance a two of Nihil's last posts and I remembered why I stopped using this forum.

I doubt your little A+ PC repair job would warrant you sending an email to Wales, let along a country half way round the globe, Nihil... still riding your moderator ego I see. My bet is you don't use IM because AO is your entire life and an IM client usually implies having friends.

As for software I think things that I use most are BackTrack in a VMware and Python (not strictly a tool I know). Without those my job would be a lot more awkward that it is now Would I take these on a Desert Island with me....hell noooo; i'd mirror thehun.com and take a good picture viewer instead

North America having the same lingo??? That's the US and Canada...Quebec alone puts that one out a bit considering anything official is French, and even in the US, hell, I still can't tell what some people are saying once you get to around Alabama. They seem to have their own language that is kind of like the English you'd here after 3 or 5 bottles of whiskey.

Example -

Hello, how are you?

Alabama translation :

Hey ya'll wutcha dooin with the witchamajiggers on ner?

What's up?

Alabama -

Hey ya'll...

I'm not sure about all these but some I've actually heard on TV and still can't quite understand. When a Telemarketer from down there calls me, sometimes I'll speak German instead of English, and once I was literally sent to the SPANISH SPEAKING line.... I almost wet myself.

I think a Family Guy episode made fun of some of the slang from the south in an episode but it's hard to tell.

And don't forget LA (The state not the city) they don't always speak English, as French is spoken. Some people call it "Cajun" but Cajun, is actually from "L'acadie" but the English couldn't pronounce it and somehow came up with Cajun. They aren't exact and I'm no expert on either, but I have seen a chart that showed the differences, and it wasn't much.

There is actually quite a difference between states. Some are obvious, like California speaking Spanish and English or maybe Spanglish. And some areas speak "Pennsylvania Dutch" which is basically German.

When a Telemarketer from down there calls me, sometimes I'll speak German instead of English, and once I was literally sent to the SPANISH SPEAKING line.... I almost wet myself.

I almost wet myself just reading that. My wife found it highly entertaining as well.

1. Discussion topics are the responsibility of the members, not the moderators (unless the content is illegal or inappropriate.

You are correct. My comment was a subtle attempt to get you to realize that you were being condescending to a "lesser" member (or whatever) who made a legitimate stab at sparking a discussion. This should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Your automatic response is to try and get details from someone who's asking for help because you've done it so many times. Even in those cases it comes across as a bit condescending, but in a case like this where someone isn't even asking for help and you're bombarding them with demands to be more specific, you're just being a jerk and your comment only served to smother a discussion. That is why I made that comment. You were out of line, and I was trying to be subtle about it. Now quit trying to blast anyone who happens to offend you.

Now...let's put this whole thing to rest, shall we? It's gone on long enough. Or if you must, at least take it to PMs.

Really? have you ever worked with an Indian offshore development team? and that is not a criticism, simply the result of bitter experience.

Yes, with many firms (both small and large). Steadily with one for the past 5 years. Works for me. But I've had offshore disasters with folks from all over the globe. No country is immune to stupidity and laziness regardless of their tongue.

I have a guy from India that worked here for me for 10+ years and decided to go home. He provides the daily supervision. We have a call every morning and every evening. He and his team manage my legacy code. Run the jobs and do break/fix. We use a subset of the methods and procedures that I learned early on in my career and I have modified/tweaked over the years as necessary to adapt to changes in technologies and techniques. It's not some over burdened CMM Level 5 BS doc. It's streamlined, repeatable processes and tightly integrated doc that allow us to deliver high quality work in a reasonable timeframe with adequate oversight and measurable deliverables/results.

The north jersey bennies, a la Tony Soprano. "Fageddaboutit!"
The central jersey... "a couple two, tree. You know, youse guyz"
Most of south jersey is south of the mason dixon line. I cant understand them at all.

it comes across as a bit condescending

I dont take any offense, after all, he's a brit.

I also wasnt trying to offend with Queen English <> English.
The fact is that many people can read and write English, but that doesnt mean they communciate effectively regardless of the tool (email, IM, phone, whatever).

To get back to the topic...
I use IM for business on a daily basis and it's an important part of my toolkit.

Specifically, I use Adium. Have several different accounts. One for work (MSN), one for personal (AIM) and one (Captain Ron's Chat) that I built for my children. It's a closed system based on jabber. It was my compromise to "Daddy, I want an AOL account".

I have a guy from India that worked here for me for 10+ years and decided to go home. He provides the daily supervision.

That's your answer mate! after you have actually worked in a country for a number of years you pick up the knowledge that college can never give you. Another thing is if you are working with the same people you start to understand them inspite of their accent or turn of phrase.

It's not some over burdened CMM Level 5 BS doc.

Yep, that's the usual mistake............people think that the methodology and tools are the discipline. That filling out the schedules and ticking the checkboxes does the job. I am not aware of any methodology that asks do you know what you are doing and is that the best or proper way to do it.

The old story...............they may be good tools but they are very bad masters.

I also wasnt trying to offend with Queen English <> English.

People use it differently and meanings change from region to region.

The fact is that many people can read and write English, but that doesnt mean they communciate effectively regardless of the tool (email, IM, phone, whatever).

That's why I favour e-mail................. you can review them for inconsistencies and ambiguities at your leisure, and resolve any issues subsequently. And that's apart from the CYA angle

I

t was my compromise to "Daddy, I want an AOL account".

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against IM per se, but I have only found it to be effective amongst members of the project teams.