I was a Vince supporter before he was drafted. He had a sensational rookie year, when we utilized his physical skills- mainly running. We froze safeties and opened up serious running and passing lanes with his unpredictability.

Great post.

Agree completely we need to utilize his running skills. Even if he has a shortened career, I'd rather get 5 amazing years out of a versatile QB than 10 mediocre years not using a players real strengths.

Im not gonna stick up for Vinces emotional side, that is something that should not be brought on the field....my question is, what 2nd year QB could have succeeded in that horrible offensive scheme of Norm Chows, with the utilities(O players) that were on the team last year? Id love to hear a good answer to that one.

Im not gonna stick up for Vinces emotional side, that is something that should not be brought on the field....my question is, what 2nd year QB could have succeeded in that horrible offensive scheme of Norm Chows, with the utilities(O players) that were on the team last year? Id love to hear a good answer to that one.

I assume you are making the point to give Vince more time to develop under Heimerdinger. I certainly think he will improve with time- provided he is putting in the necessary time to improve himself. Many people are concerned that he hasn't done that thus far with his apparent cavalier, uninterested appearance during games, his return to UT for "studies" (and partying), and his performance during training camp.

Honestly, we just haven't had the opportunity to see if he has developed any further since being benched. And don't forget- it was his "emotional" side that resulting in his benching- NOT his on the field play. So the emotional maturation is a VERY big part (leadership) of what he brings to the franchise QB position. Until he proves otherwise- he just isn't franchise QB material. Only Fisher knows if he will have the opportunity to demonstrate otherwise.

I assume you are making the point to give Vince more time to develop under Heimerdinger. I certainly think he will improve with time- provided he is putting in the necessary time to improve himself. Many people are concerned that he hasn't done that thus far with his apparent cavalier, uninterested appearance during games, his return to UT for "studies" (and partying), and his performance during training camp.

Honestly, we just haven't had the opportunity to see if he has developed any further since being benched. And don't forget- it was his "emotional" side that resulting in his benching- NOT his on the field play. So the emotional maturation is a VERY big part (leadership) of what he brings to the franchise QB position. Until he proves otherwise- he just isn't franchise QB material. Only Fisher knows if he will have the opportunity to demonstrate otherwise.

Oh i agree, thats why I wouldnt stick up for him due to his emotional side. And by that I mean his emotional "baggage" that should not be brought on the field....the problem is, for a rookie, he showed far more leadership and maturity than most rookie QB's have done(Aside from Ryan this year). Where that additude went to after the end of last season is the question.

I think the biggest problem people have with VY is that they forget he is still a kid.....was throwing him into the fire his rookie year a bad idea? No, cause we saw what he could do that year and he ended up being OROY....but maybe Fisher did put him in to early....Vince was ready to lead when things were going good, but he obviously wasnt mature enough "yet" for when things go bad.

But its topics like these that make me laugh...everyone wants to praise a player when they do great....but as soon as things go bad, they want to throw said player under the bus as if we all are on the sidelines and know everything that is going on.

Just a reminder, everyone in NY was looking to get rid of Eli before last year, and look what happen with that? But then you know, a QB can succeed to the SB when there is a "great" team surrounding him...Eli, and Big Ben did it and I will laugh at anyone who says those two could do it with this team or better yet last years.

I think the biggest problem people have with VY is that they forget he is still a kid.....was throwing him into the fire his rookie year a bad idea? No, cause we saw what he could do that year and he ended up being OROY....but maybe Fisher did put him in to early....Vince was ready to lead when things were going good, but he obviously wasnt mature enough "yet" for when things go bad.

But its topics like these that make me laugh...everyone wants to praise a player when they do great....but as soon as things go bad, they want to throw said player under the bus as if we all are on the sidelines and know everything that is going on.

Just a reminder, everyone in NY was looking to get rid of Eli before last year, and look what happen with that? But then you know, a QB can succeed to the SB when there is a "great" team surrounding him...Eli, and Big Ben did it and I will laugh at anyone who says those two could do it with this team or better yet last years.

Quite simply, it is about results and what a player has done lately. He continues to collect a paycheck therefore he is expected to continue to produce. That is just the nature of this (and most other) businesses. The fans are well within their "rights" to expect any player to perform. Of course fans are going to be content when a player is performing and of course they are going to be ill when that player doesn't. They want results.

I don't see people dissatisfied with Young's development as "throwing him under the bus". They aren't trying to preserve themselves, they just don't see the performance they expect and they point it out.

Young has "earned" every nearly every criticism I've seen on this board. The onus is on him to demonstrate that he can perform to the expected standard. He made a serious error when he indicated to Fisher (allegedly) he didn't want to go back into the game(s). We'll just have to see if Fisher is going to give him another chance this year.

1) He's physically gifted... big, strong, fast, agile.
2) He's still immature - sometimes that doesn't matter, I'd bet a lot of NFL players are. In his case it affects his play and in particular his decision making.
3) He needs to improve as a passer. Some of that is tied to his decision making, some of it is still mechanics - which we have seen signs of improvement. Still need more.
4) He CAN be a good leader. Rookie QB taking over a team is impressive. He's lost some cred now, but we've seen he take take a team on his back and win them over.

I think we'd all agree that IF he can settle down as a passer, he could be an absolutely dominant player. Big if, maybe, but given that his 2 biggest problems are immaturity and mechanics I think I'd put money on him overcoming those things given another year or 2. From what I've seen, I'm convinced that he usually sees the field very well and has good vision - his INTs are almost always a factor of timing or poor footwork... not usually a stupid decision (until he gets flustered - which goes back to maturity).

Every person grows up. He will. Maybe he has this year already - like Riverman said, hard for us to tell with him on the sideline.

So can Dinger improve his passing skills? Been there, done that with McNair, so I'd bet he can again.

So no - he's not nearly a franchise QB right now. He HAS to grow up. He HAS to become more of a student of the game. But the odds are in his favor if you look at the things he needs to overcome. I'd say keep him, eat the salary cap hit, and make sure the coaches get the most out of him to get him ready.

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