You are sitting up there talking to a dude and he tells you he’s an atheist, you need to pack it up and go home. You talking to a person who don’t believe in God… what’s his moral barometer? Where’s it at? It's nowhere. You gotta get into this stuff.

There might be some sense in the claim that a woman looking for a spouse should consider religious differences. Differing religious views might well bring future conflict that would not be healthy for a marriage. In the same way that a person may seek compatible tastes in the number of children to have, career ambitions, and financial matters, there is some sense in seeking a mate with religious views that one is comfortable with.

However, this was not Harvey's point. Harvey’s comments speak to two prejudices.

The first is that he speaks of atheists as other – as outsiders – "them". His advice only makes sense under the assumption that he views his audience to include only people who have a personal relationship with God by default. It runs on the assumption that whatever "atheists" are, they are people that it is fit for him only to talk about, not people who are fit subjects to be talking to. That is to say, "We certainly will not want anything to do with them."

And, of course, the reason they are unfit marriage partners is because they lack a moral footing. They are a threat – likely to do harm. They are people to be feared.

Imagine somebody making the claim that a person seeing a perspective mate should certainly not marry somebody who is black. Here, if one looks at the statistical evidence, we do see that blacks are more likely to divorce than whites and more likely to be convicted of a crime.

Immediately, he would be denounced for the bigotry inherent in this statement because, morally, it does not matter what statistical group we get lumped in – we have a right to be judged according to our own qualities.

Every one of us can be put into a huge number of groups. In addition to being an atheist, I am also white, male, born in Montana, with post-graduate education, a blogger, somebody who studied moral philosophy, married, born in July, non-smoker, non-drinker, living in his own home, non-driver, and so on.

Of all of the groups that belong to, members of each one have a particular percentage of its members in prison, for example. It is also mathematically inevitable that at least one of them has a larger percentage of its members in prison as that of any other group that I belong to. Maybe it is Montanans, or people born on a Thursday, or right-handed people with freckles. Somewhere in the infinitely long list of groups I can be thrown into there is one with a substantial portion of its members in prison.

The same is true of you – and of every other human being on the planet. This is true as a matter of mathematical necessity.

Now, let it be said that you are an unfit marriage partner because of your membership in that group.

If this is a valid form of reasoning then none of us are fit marriage partners because every one of us belongs to at least one group with a high incidence of criminal behavior. And the decision to use that membership, as opposed to any of the infinite number of memberships that are also applicable (we also have membership in a group with a lowest incidence of criminal behavior than all of the other groups we belong to), is entirely arbitrary and capricious.

It is, in short, malicious bigotry.

However, it is also evidence of malicious bigotry to make derogatory claims about a group of people that are not even true – to promote groundless hatred and fear. Whenever anybody makes a false claim we can ask why that person came to adopt that error as opposed to the millions of other errors available.

We will typically find that explanation in what the person wants to believe. So Harvey wants to believe that atheists have no moral anchor. In doing so, he shows that he values the hatred and fear of atheists. It is not a belief he stumbled upon and been forced into by the overwhelming weight of the evidence. It is a belief he sought out and embraced - one that he cherishes and has value to him. The reason the belief that atheists have no moral grounding is loved is precisely because it gives weight to the hatred and bigotry he is seeking to justify.

And Tyra Blanks is, at best, afraid to challenge expressed bigotry against atheists.

It is also relevant to note that host Tyra Banks did not see fit to call Harvey out on his prejudice. Her guest was saying that all atheists are unfit to be married – that any woman who marries an atheist is making a mistake. She let it slide either without noticing, or noticing and not caring about, the bigotry being exhibited in front of her.

We can well imagine what her reaction would have been – what it should have been – if Harvey had declared that a woman looking for a mate should make sure that her perspective husband is not a "Christ killer" who would certainly only see her as a financial asset. What we would expect to hear is shock that somebody would come on her show to say such a thing and a quick declaration that, "I think those claims are wrong and bigoted and I certainly cannot agree with them."

6 comments:

I totally agree. I was on a phone call with my mother yesterday when she mentioned this episode of Tyra Banks. I told her that she just ruined my opinion of Steve Harvey, but she couldn't figure out why. Oh well...

steve hardly (not a typo) is not in any position to give anyone relationship advice. period. he is on his third wife! and then for him to spout this bigotry is a reflection of how people think within the black community. i am a black, female atheist and i encounter this attitude all the time. apparently, because i reject religion and the lie that there is a god, i have no morals and i am beyond "saving".

if i were a child molesting criminal; shooting, robbing and generally terrorizing the population, it would not matter as long as i claimed to have g*d.

I saw a clip of Steve Harvey making these comments on the Tyra Banks show, amid a group of funny/wacky/crazy video clips.

...Appropriate grouping, I thought.

It was pretty funny to me. (Lame...but funny.)

You see, I don't label myself (much less label myself as an "atheist"), but I've been saying for years that I'd be surprised if I ever meet a religious person who is up to my "moral" standard.

Religious people, flawed as are all humans, seem to be overly-represented amongst the criminals, the drug addicts, the promiscuous, the racist/bigotted, the hate-filled, the murderous, and on and on.

Where they aren't very well represented is in science. Approximately 95% of all scientists are not religious.

Myself, I don't do anything "wrong." I do my best not to lie (not 100%, but I try); I have never tried any illegal drugs; I don't steal; I've never been "unfaithful" - actually, the thought of disrespecting my husband like that is nauseating...in fact, there's never been a divorce in my entire family - not aunts, uncles, cousins, either. Not one! How many "religious" people can make that claim?

Here's the thing...others might call me an "atheist" (even though I don't belong to any 'group'). Recently, a incident proved that religion has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a person will do what's right.

After recently purchasing multiple items at a big box hardware store, it wasn't until I'd reached my car that I realized the cashier had only charged me for one of two identical items. (Each about $15.) I walked all the way back into the store, and waited while the cashier finished serving another customer, just so she could charge me the additional $15+tax. Someone in line stated, "Now THAT'S honesty!" But that's who I am. I never try to get something for nothing. If something's wrong, it's wrong. It doesn't matter how convenient or profitable it might be. In this case, keeping the item without paying for it means the company suffers a (albeit tiny) loss. That's not right.

This is how a "non-religious" person behaves.

I saw another brief clip of Mr. Harvey giving dating advice (on another show), and I generally agreed that too many women don't have high-enough standards (for themselves, and their potential mates). I'm one who has always had those relatively-high standards.

My man must open my door for me, pull out my chair, stand when I enter a room, etc., etc. Sure, it's old fashioned. But it denotes a minimum level of respect. It's not that I thought anything negative about a man (when I was dating) who didn't do those things. He just wasn't "for me." I readily admit my husband had to learn those things, when I met him. But he had no problem with it. He understands that it's about respect. And he respects me enough to do those small things, to this day (13 years later).

Mr. Harvey's scurrilous attack on a group of people known for their sober, conscious consideration of facts (rather than blindly following dogma), is not just offensive, it's preposterous. Like-minded people demonstrate responsibility for all their actions, rather than blaming them on mythical beings. They do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because they fear some mythical being's retribution.

I mean, I could make fun of people who belive that fabricated characters like Horus or Jesus were really live human beings with magical powers. Or that Jesus is a human man who lives on a planet near Kolob, or that Jonah lived inside a "big fish" for days? These are the people holding themselves up as that the clever ones...judging everyone else?

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Look...I was just really surprised to see Steve Harvey say something THAT ridiculous and discriminatory. I mean, he could have simply said he believes that a relgious woman should look for a religious man. But, instead, he showed what kind of un-Christ-like loser he is, in maligning an entire group. It's kind of like making a public statement, saying Steve Harvey smells bad. How would he counteract that kind of statement? (whispering)(Does he smell bad? I don't know. I bet he does. Whaddyou think? Why can't he just bathe???)

(giggling) You get my point, I'm sure.

I wish, oh how I wish, people would educate themselves BEFORE devising strong opinions, much less airing those opinions publicly.

If anything, it just gives me more evidence that I will likely never meet a religious person with "morals" equalling mine.

When Steve Harvey was on 'Steve Harvey and the Angels' on The Beat out here in LA on 100.3FM, he said the same views. I used to listen to him all the time and once I heard him talking about that, I was so pissed.

Yeah, I'm no longer a fan of him after I heard what he said. Which is messed up, because I have liked him the past 10 years or so (loved his show, his stand up, etc.) I now consider him a bigoted piece of shit.

About Me

When I was in high school, I decided that I wanted to leave the world better off than it would have been if I had not existed. This started a quest, through 12 years of college and on to today, to try to discover what a "better" world consists of. I have written a book describing that journey that you can find on my website. In this blog, I will keep track of the issues I have confronted since then.