This is just flat out incorrect. in arena 2200+ holy pally have more representation at 10.2% than resto shaman do at 9%.

The rest of your comment just prove your bias and butt hurt of some shaman that beat you.

You are wrong. Go watch any stream and tell me how many holy paladins you see playing vs the amount of resto shamans. Or even better, ask any 2.5k+ rated player how it works. Every multiple rank 1 gladiator will tell you that shamans are currently the best healer. No matter who you ask this will be the answer.
First of all representation is currently really flawed at the moment because of the mmr bug. Second of all, the only reason you see holy paladins overepresentated in 2.2k+ arena is because 1) there are far, far more players who play paladin than shaman, 2) holy paladin is better for KFC, so most paladins who are high rated are just camping their rating after their comp was nerfed (fixed) to the ground.

The fact that you just wrote what I quoted makes you look like some stupid player who has absolutely no idea what is going on in PvP, and can't even take a look outside of his own class for a objective discussions.

You are wrong. Go watch any stream and tell me how many holy paladins you see playing vs the amount of resto shamans. Or even better, ask any 2.5k+ rated player how it works. Every multiple rank 1 gladiator will tell you that shamans are currently the best healer. No matter who you ask this will be the answer.
First of all representation is currently really flawed at the moment because of the mmr bug. Second of all, the only reason you see holy paladins overepresentated in 2.2k+ arena is because 1) there are far, far more players who play paladin than shaman, 2) holy paladin is better for KFC, so most paladins who are high rated are just camping their rating after their comp was nerfed (fixed) to the ground.

The fact that you just wrote what I quoted makes you look like some stupid player who has absolutely no idea what is going on in PvP, and can't even take a look outside of his own class for a objective discussions.

So you start out by telling me

You are wrong.

And you end by saying

the only reason you see holy paladins overepresentated in 2.2k+ arena is

Im convinced that when youre hired to blizz, you start in the mailroom (mailroom = shaman class dev's) Once you move up the ladder to lead devs (lead = paladin class dev) then you can say to yourself "man, I remember the days of the mailroom"

Point? go fotm like 90% of the other subs. dont waste your time on a broken class. its not blizz's intended company model.

the FACT remains that there are more holy pallies than resto shaman when looking at 2200+ arena teams. you can dispute this all you want, but you are only fooling yourself.

Your numbers are still not valid before you exclude the mmr exploiters and pre-stampede hotfix teams. And even then you have to remember that paladins are the most played class at max level.

I don't have the numbers right now, but before the mmr bug shamans had the highest representation of all the healing classes at 2.2k+. And that is even including all the paladins who ran bugged KFC to 2.2k+.

I provided an opinion of professional players. You provided useless statistics that doesn't really say a thing.

Your numbers are still not valid before you exclude the mmr exploiters and pre-stampede hotfix teams. And even then you have to remember that paladins are the most played class at max level.

I don't have the numbers right now, but before the mmr bug shamans had the highest representation of all the healing classes at 2.2k+. And that is even including all the paladins who ran bugged KFC to 2.2k+.

I provided an opinion of professional players. You provided useless statistics that doesn't really say a thing.

I'm still correct, no matter how hard you try to bold your posts.

Actually i bolded your post, not mine. So you want to ignore everything in arena up to recent hotfixes... great, then i'm sure you want to be just as fair and ignore current stats until the nerfs go live and watch the number of shaman plummet. oh, you don't want that? you want us to look at a sample from just the past 1 - 2 weeks?

Actually i bolded your post, not mine. So you want to ignore everything in arena up to recent hotfixes... great, then i'm sure you want to be just as fair and ignore current stats until the nerfs go live and watch the number of shaman plummet. oh, you don't want that? you want us to look at a sample from just the past 1 - 2 weeks?

I don't include bugs in my balance judgement. Stampede damage was a bug. Mmr abuse was a bug. Likewise I wouldn't include the seal bug during 4.3 as a view of ret paladin representation. I dont see anything wrong about this. Neither should you.

We can argue about representation of resto shamans and whether they're overpowered or not till the cows come home. Resto shamans, resto druids, and holy paladins are all probably too powerful.

And it's only going to get worse when we get more and more pvp power (plus more intellect and other secondary stats). I myself have 40% and have seen some players with 47%...and this is only the first season. By the end of the expansion we could be seeing people with 60+. If they can make it so that dps healers don't benefit from pvp power I think they should just do it for all healers, period. That way pvp power just increases damage as I don't think these healers need this additional stat to help them out.

Make Totems stack together meaning i should be able to use all 4 Earth Totems at the same time

I think this is a good point but considering that they were even thinking about making this change, nevermind implementing it, how much you want to bet that they put all the fire totems in the fire school and all the rest in the nature school. Which is what they did basically, but now they could change it so we can only 'cast'(lol) 1 fire totem and 1 nature totem. So we could cast, for example, searing and healing stream at the same time but not earthgrab and healing stream.

Sounds dumb, right? But I wouldn't put it past them.

These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

I don't include bugs in my balance judgement. Stampede damage was a bug. Mmr abuse was a bug. Likewise I wouldn't include the seal bug during 4.3 as a view of ret paladin representation. I dont see anything wrong about this. Neither should you.

Seeing that they are NOT resetting the ratings for arena teams, how will you ever have and adequate judgement of representation this season then?

I provided an opinion of professional players.
You provided useless statistics that doesn't really say a thing.

I'm still correct, no matter how hard you try to bold your posts.

This made me laugh so hard. Reminds me of Republicans in the recent election. "Those damn liberals with their number and math! How dare they go against our gut feelings and opinions".

Originally Posted by shell

We can argue about representation of resto shamans and whether they're overpowered or not till the cows come home. Resto shamans, resto druids, and holy paladins are all probably too powerful.

Maybe you're right, but healers should be overpowered when compared to DPS specs. That's just the nature of the beast. If a healer can't survive 1v1, then how the hell can they survive 2v1 or keep someone alive 2v1.

I think it boils down to either 1) Resto Shaman/Resto Druid/Holy Paladins are OP or 2) MW and Disc are up. Personally I believe its (2). They should be bringing these specs more in line with the others.

Originally Posted by shell

And it's only going to get worse when we get more and more pvp power (plus more intellect and other secondary stats). I myself have 40% and have seen some players with 47%...and this is only the first season. By the end of the expansion we could be seeing people with 60+. If they can make it so that dps healers don't benefit from pvp power I think they should just do it for all healers, period. That way pvp power just increases damage as I don't think these healers need this additional stat to help them out.

Then PvE gear becomes better for PvP (for healers). I really don't want to raid just to keep competitive for PvP. That was the whole reason behind the changes in MoP and I don't see them doing something like this. PvP power is already 50% lower for heals than damage anyways.