You're going into Year 3 as the HMFIC. You've won a total of 9 games in the first 2. If you don't show improvement there may not be a Year 4. So you absolutely need to get a QB, even if you have to take him too early. You need to take away all of the "but it's not his fault he has no weapons" argument so you have to give away some picks to move up 2 spots in the draft for an RB and then you also need to overpay for a WR.

And this is not a criticism, merely an observation. It just is what it is. Browns football 2012.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

mattvan1 wrote:You're going into Year 3 as the HMFIC. You've won a total of 9 games in the first 2. If you don't show improvement there may not be a Year 4. So you absolutely need to get a QB, even if you have to take him too early. You need to take away all of the "but it's not his fault he has no weapons" argument so you have to give away some picks to move up 2 spots in the draft for an RB and then you also need to overpay for a WR.

You're going into Year 3 as the HMFIC. You've won a total of 9 games in the first 2. If you don't show improvement there may not be a Year 4. So you absolutely need to get a QB, even if you have to take him too early. You need to take away all of the "but it's not his fault he has no weapons" argument so you have to give away some picks to move up 2 spots in the draft for an RB and then you also need to overpay for a WR.

And this is not a criticism, merely an observation. It just is what it is. Browns football 2012.

I think it would be safe to argue that the Browns might have overpaid on all 3 of those picks and still argue that it was the right move to make.

Whether it works out, who knows. But if they're right about these guys, overpaying a little bit will be forgotten pretty damn quickly.

Screw people who complain about this pick. People (myself included) bitched for years about how they don't take changes and need to. Now they do and those people still bitch. Good for the FO for making things happen.

You're going into Year 3 as the HMFIC. You've won a total of 9 games in the first 2. If you don't show improvement there may not be a Year 4. So you absolutely need to get a QB, even if you have to take him too early. You need to take away all of the "but it's not his fault he has no weapons" argument so you have to give away some picks to move up 2 spots in the draft for an RB and then you also need to overpay for a WR.

And this is not a criticism, merely an observation. It just is what it is. Browns football 2012.

I think it would be safe to argue that the Browns might have overpaid on all 3 of those picks and still argue that it was the right move to make.

Whether it works out, who knows. But if they're right about these guys, overpaying a little bit will be forgotten pretty damn quickly.

At least it looks like Holmgren is finally awake.

Very much agree - at this point the Browns really don't have much of a choice. Wonder what Walrus regrets the most - not axing Mangini on Day 1, instead of Day 366, or counting on one of either Jake, Seneca, or Colt to be The Man?

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

andrew6586 wrote:Screw people who complain about this pick. People (myself included) bitched for years about how they don't take changes and need to. Now they do and those people still bitch. Good for the FO for making things happen.

The only person I see complaining about this pick is E0, and he would complain about whatever the Browns did b/c that's his thing.

mattvan1 wrote:Very much agree - at this point the Browns really don't have much of a choice. Wonder what Walrus regrets the most - not axing Mangini on Day 1, instead of Day 366, or counting on one of either Jake, Seneca, or Colt to be The Man?

Tough one. Both of those moves sucked something fierce.

I think keeping Mangini was still the bigger mistake. It's like getting married to a girl you know you're just gonna turn around and divorce.

This opens us up to do so much in the first round of next. We may have gone with WR and defense in the second. Now we can get a DE or LB in the top ten (I can't imagine winning much more than 5 with our schedule). We need defense badly now. It looks like our offense is set for a some time as log as we fill in one or two more holes (TE and probably right guard).

I am not gonna complain that we might have had him in the 3rd round. I was afraid we would lose him if we went third round. I thought there would be a good team, who will likely be drafting late in round two who would take a chance on him. We are a better team today than we were yesterday. Our biggest need has FINALLY received some attention. My biggest complaint after the 2012 draft was that we didn't draft a receiver high in the draft. I suddenly have some optimism. Very guarded optimism, but optimism and excitement.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

There was talk he was strictly a 7s and 9s guy and only valuable outside the hashes but after Tuesday scouts adjusted that and upgraded his route running ability.

Scored a 24 on the wonderlic, purported to be bright and willing to work, if not a bit immature.

Tough to find a lot of youtbube/video on the kid given two years off and one season of playing but the worst that happens is H&H die with the pick and Gordon's ashes are piled on top of guys like Robiskie and Massaquoi as well Quincy Morgan, et al.

andrew6586 wrote:This opens us up to do so much in the first round of next. We may have gone with WR and defense in the second. Now we can get a DE or LB in the top ten (I can't imagine winning much more than 5 with our schedule). We need defense badly now. It looks like our offense is set for a some time as log as we fill in one or two more holes (TE and probably right guard).

Pass Rusher. LB... DE... someone to attack the QB.

Even if all the new players pan out, I still think the lack of a consistent 2nd pass rusher (outside of Sheard) keeps the Browns from being truly dangerous.

andrew6586 wrote:This opens us up to do so much in the first round of next. We may have gone with WR and defense in the second. Now we can get a DE or LB in the top ten (I can't imagine winning much more than 5 with our schedule). We need defense badly now. It looks like our offense is set for a some time as log as we fill in one or two more holes (TE and probably right guard).

Pass Rusher. LB... DE... someone to attack the QB.

Even if all the new players pan out, I still think the lack of a consistent 2nd pass rusher (outside of Sheard) keeps the Browns from being truly dangerous.

andrew6586 wrote:This opens us up to do so much in the first round of next. We may have gone with WR and defense in the second. Now we can get a DE or LB in the top ten (I can't imagine winning much more than 5 with our schedule). We need defense badly now. It looks like our offense is set for a some time as log as we fill in one or two more holes (TE and probably right guard).

Pass Rusher. LB... DE... someone to attack the QB.

Even if all the new players pan out, I still think the lack of a consistent 2nd pass rusher (outside of Sheard) keeps the Browns from being truly dangerous.

Yup. We need defense badly.

Pass Rushing DE/LB, 2nd Corner, Other Starting DE/LB... get that and if all the high picks (Richardson, Weeden, Schwartz, Gordon) pan out, that team could do some damage (and not just to its fan base).

andrew6586 wrote:This opens us up to do so much in the first round of next. We may have gone with WR and defense in the second. Now we can get a DE or LB in the top ten (I can't imagine winning much more than 5 with our schedule). We need defense badly now. It looks like our offense is set for a some time as log as we fill in one or two more holes (TE and probably right guard).

Pass Rusher. LB... DE... someone to attack the QB.

Even if all the new players pan out, I still think the lack of a consistent 2nd pass rusher (outside of Sheard) keeps the Browns from being truly dangerous.

That plus a back 7 game changing play maker.

Honey Badger is my early focus & we'll suck badly enough due to schedule, inexperience, and thin depth to have him in our sites. Next Polamaulu.

Pass rusher and Matthieu plus experience will make 2013 our year to step forward.

Doing it right like built to last the Pirates and not the Sham Indians.

Boo. I fully expected you to bring out the 'with the track record the Browns have using 2nd round picks on WRs how can they not go wrong?' take.

You are slipping.

Also I liked this. We needed a RT/WR/QB/RB in the first 2 rounds this year. We got 3. Now we just got the 4th.

I am very much in favor of this. And I do not give a categorical shit whether they drafted him a round early. They liked this guy and the got him. And we know they scouted the crap out of him when he played. Somebody was watching Phil Taylor,.

Our offense is now so full of potential upside that I'm getting excited as hell.

A lot, a lot, a lot can still go wrong. But I think either way we win. Either a questionable staff gets booted or we finally see progress. Shurmer looked awful last year, but I'll give him a full offseason and training camp to see what he can do. Consistency in and of itself does wonders.

And if all 4 of our main offensive draft picks pans out... Well, that will be fun to watch.

pup wrote:Ballsy. But I like it. Obvious need. High upside. With a good season, you could see this guy being a top 37 pick in 2013 pretty easily. And you get a "free" year to develop him in your offense.

Boo. I fully expected you to bring out the 'with the track record the Browns have using 2nd round picks on WRs how can they not go wrong?' take.

You are slipping.

Also I liked this. We needed a RT/WR/QB/RB in the first 2 rounds this year. We got 3. Now we just got the 4th.

I am very much in favor of this. And I do not give a categorical shit whether they drafted him a round early. They liked this guy and the got him. And we know they scouted the crap out of him when he played. Somebody was watching Phil Taylor,.

As the resident stoner (hey man it's Cali and I'm a fucking musician) I think you have me confused.

However, my take is a curiosity as to how the "lottery" panned out. Obviously we won, but was there a release of the order?

I like the pick. Of course I would've liked it at #3...but we now know that wasn't going to work.

Is running good routes a teachable thing? It seems the only knock on the guy.

Cousin who's a Bengal fan (yeah...he's one of the 4 Bengal fans) texted me he thought it was a terrific pick-up by the Browns. A potential T.O. - his words...not mine. I like the comparison because I'm pretty sure this guy is gonna carry major baggage.

To get arrested for weed you kinda have to be a fucking moron. How many people do you know who smoke pot? A lot. How many of them get arrested for it? None. Methinks this guy was flaunting it in a very public place...which makes him an idiot.

/However...I'm all for 2nd chances. Especially if you're on MY team. And truth is...you don't take a IQ test when you run a corner route.

Boo. I fully expected you to bring out the 'with the track record the Browns have using 2nd round picks on WRs how can they not go wrong?' take.

You are slipping.

Also I liked this. We needed a RT/WR/QB/RB in the first 2 rounds this year. We got 3. Now we just got the 4th.

I am very much in favor of this. And I do not give a categorical shit whether they drafted him a round early. They liked this guy and the got him. And we know they scouted the crap out of him when he played. Somebody was watching Phil Taylor,.

As the resident stoner (hey man it's Cali and I'm a fucking musician) I think you have me confused.

However, my take is a curiosity as to how the "lottery" panned out. Obviously we won, but was there a release of the order?

I like the pick. Of course I would've liked it at #3...but we now know that wasn't going to work.

Is running good routes a teachable thing? It seems the only knock on the guy.

Cousin who's a Bengal fan (yeah...he's one of the 4 Bengal fans) texted me he thought it was a terrific pick-up by the Browns. A potential T.O. - his words...not mine. I like the comparison because I'm pretty sure this guy is gonna carry major baggage.

To get arrested for weed you kinda have to be a fucking moron. How many people do you know who smoke pot? A lot. How many of them get arrested for it? None. Methinks this guy was flaunting it in a very public place...which makes him an idiot.

/However...I'm all for 2nd chances. Especially if you're on MY team. And truth is...you don't take a IQ test when you run a corner route.

Actually, he scored pretty high on the Wunderlic (24). Maybe he thought he was too smart.

As for the order, I know Buffalo was 1, Cleveland was 2. I think Miami was 4 and Washington was 7.

If the Browns had the 1st pick, I think they would've waited until the 3rd. But there was probably a decent chance the Bills would've taken him with the 1st pick of the 3rd, so they paid the piper.

Not fully bought in as Gordon being a #1 and savior because the body of work is not there yet but I like the "risk".

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

Apparently he was caught "falling asleep" at what I can only surmise was a Taco Bell (2am) drive through. Sound to me like he is guilty of being black, not smoking pot.

So he's in Waco...getting blazed...and they drive to Taco Bell and get caught by a red-neck cop getting his fat on in the parking lot.

I'm officially a fan of this kid...no matter what happens. I hope someday he makes a 100 million dollars and buys the Police station down there a statue of his middle finger. (<--been waiting to use this one)

And......(deep breath)....Why isn't waiting next to a Taco Bell at 2 am for stoners considered entrapment? Damn cop was lazy as fuck all. It's like catching speeders at the bottom of a steep hill. It's just against the rules man...we all know the code. It's the same one as Swerbsblurbs...

Been with my buddies before where they'd be passed out, wake as we were ordering. Drop a Grande meal and couple Cheesy 5-layer burritos and be back to sleep before we'd make it home.

Other times watched a buddy cover $60 worth of an order and buy our cabby a handful of tacos for the trouble.

Moral of the story, I ain't saying it's right I'm just saying you ain't a warm-blooded 20-something until you hit up that TB at 3 am and the porcelin with the shits at 9 am...

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

noles1 wrote:Been with my buddies before where they'd be passed out, wake as we were ordering. Drop a Grande meal and couple Cheesy 5-layer burritos and be back to sleep before we'd make it home.

Other times watched a buddy cover $60 worth of an order and buy our cabby a handful of tacos for the trouble.

Moral of the story, I ain't saying it's right I'm just saying you ain't a warm-blooded 20-something until you hit up that TB at 3 am and the porcelin with the shits at 9 am...

JTA has it right: Kids are gonna make kid mistakes. You don't ignore them, you don't excuse them, you punish them when called for, but you shouldn't define the adult they're going to be by those mistakes.

Hopefully the kid matures into a responsible dude.

Again, not sweeping it under the rug. But the 45 yr old me would take issue with the 18 yr old me for many things too.

When I get bothered is when it becomes an excused pattern of behavior (see- Pryor, Terrelle) and especially one that's not applied equally regardless of school or team/city affiliation.

bookelly wrote:As the resident stoner (hey man it's Cali and I'm a fucking musician) I think you have me confused.

However, my take is a curiosity as to how the "lottery" panned out. Obviously we won, but was there a release of the order?

There was. The Browns had the 2nd pick behind Beefalo.

However if they were concerned that any team would have taken him in the 2nd round or Buffalo in the 3rd roudn then they had to take him in the second round. Frankly I do not think they were that concerned about Buffalo but more concerned that a team like Baltimore, New England, or Pittsburgh who are typically betting late second round picks would have been willing to pull the trigger.

It's been reported though that no other team made a 2nd round bid. I have not heard what the next bid was though so who knows if the reporting is real. Frankly the Browns had arguably the greatest need in the NFL for a starting receiver so it should not be surprising that they were willing to pay more than anyone else. They also have a brand new (oldish) QB and there is a lot to the idea that QBs and WRs grow in the NFL together.

100% on board. I think is value is HIGHER as a supplemental draft pick because of the year of development time. Even if he is just a backup to SloMass and Glittle this year, it gives him a whole year to get used to the speed of the NFL game and to learn the playbook.

Rather add that nasty D-lineman or a Megatron/Fitzgerald type receiver next year and focus on their development than add extra rookie WR's. If Gordon pans out to a solid #2, that's a win.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.