And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

In the early days of the Church it would stand to reason that meat wasn't eaten nearly as much as it is today. Our current levels of consumption are a Godless Latinization. [/outrage]

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

In the early days of the Church it would stand to reason that meat wasn't eaten nearly as much as it is today. Our current levels of consumption are a Godless Latinization. [/outrage]

In the Gospel of John some of the disciples caught 153 fish. I bet they ate that many fishies on the daily!

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

In the early days of the Church it would stand to reason that meat wasn't eaten nearly as much as it is today. Our current levels of consumption are a Godless Latinization. [/outrage]

In the Gospel of John some of the disciples caught 153 fish. I bet they ate that many fishies on the daily!

Based on that Gospel passage, I think we should glorify this guy:

Quote

Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Gimme more fish and pizza, bro!

A Wisconsin man got cut off after he wolfed down a dozen pieces of fish at an all-you-can-eat fish fry, so he did what any red-blooded American would do: he made a picket sign and protested.

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

In the early days of the Church it would stand to reason that meat wasn't eaten nearly as much as it is today. Our current levels of consumption are a Godless Latinization. [/outrage]

In the Gospel of John some of the disciples caught 153 fish. I bet they ate that many fishies on the daily!

Based on that Gospel passage, I think we should glorify this guy:

Quote

Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Gimme more fish and pizza, bro!

A Wisconsin man got cut off after he wolfed down a dozen pieces of fish at an all-you-can-eat fish fry, so he did what any red-blooded American would do: he made a picket sign and protested.

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

In the early days of the Church it would stand to reason that meat wasn't eaten nearly as much as it is today. Our current levels of consumption are a Godless Latinization. [/outrage]

In the Gospel of John some of the disciples caught 153 fish. I bet they ate that many fishies on the daily!

Based on that Gospel passage, I think we should glorify this guy:

Quote

Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Gimme more fish and pizza, bro!

A Wisconsin man got cut off after he wolfed down a dozen pieces of fish at an all-you-can-eat fish fry, so he did what any red-blooded American would do: he made a picket sign and protested.

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

In the early days of the Church it would stand to reason that meat wasn't eaten nearly as much as it is today. Our current levels of consumption are a Godless Latinization. [/outrage]

In the Gospel of John some of the disciples caught 153 fish. I bet they ate that many fishies on the daily!

Based on that Gospel passage, I think we should glorify this guy:

Quote

Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Gimme more fish and pizza, bro!

A Wisconsin man got cut off after he wolfed down a dozen pieces of fish at an all-you-can-eat fish fry, so he did what any red-blooded American would do: he made a picket sign and protested.

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

In the early days of the Church it would stand to reason that meat wasn't eaten nearly as much as it is today. Our current levels of consumption are a Godless Latinization. [/outrage]

In the Gospel of John some of the disciples caught 153 fish. I bet they ate that many fishies on the daily!

Based on that Gospel passage, I think we should glorify this guy:

Quote

Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Gimme more fish and pizza, bro!

A Wisconsin man got cut off after he wolfed down a dozen pieces of fish at an all-you-can-eat fish fry, so he did what any red-blooded American would do: he made a picket sign and protested.

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

I'm all for reduced consumption of meat and actually think it's pretty gross how many food items have meat by-products. I recall how even my grandma used to make green beans with bacon in them. I don't see why that is really necessary, personally.

I think reducing consumption of meat for ethical concerns is great, and I try to buy free-range whenever I can and some of my friends have even told me about local farms in the area from whence meat can be obtained and I think it might be nice to see how feasible that route is.

That being said, I do believe we have a "divine right" to eat meat, and I think that vegetarian propaganda is often aggravating and in-your-face, at least here in the USA. Hence I think it's pretty understandable why people have such a negative reaction to it.

One of the reasons that I said that vegetarian arguments can be heretical (I don't think they all are btw, as should now be clear from the above paragraphs) is that often underlying such arguments is the idea that animals are equal to man and deserve the same rights as we do. They aren't and they don't.

I tend to like the approach taken by one of the professors that attends one of my missions; he doesn't ever cook meat for himself, but if someone offers it to him at church he eats it because he does not want to break the social bond created over the shared meal.

There is an important fact you seem not to be taking into account: Humans are not just another animal; we are above the animals, better than them, and have dominion over them. Furthermore, God explicitly permitted humanity to consume animal flesh, after He killed most everyone on the planet with a flood.

We are not to be an example to the animal kingdom because we are not mere animals; rather we are to exercise dominion over the animals and we are permitted to take them as our food.

But we are not permitted to abuse and torture them. Dominion is stewardship, not callous domination over the animal kingdom with no ethical considerations. Not to mention that the meat and poutry industries in America create inhumane conditions not only for the animals but also often for the humans who work in these industries.

Selam

Logged

"God is a consuming fire. And His fire is love."+ Gebre Menfes Kidus +

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

I'm all for reduced consumption of meat and actually think it's pretty gross how many food items have meat by-products. I recall how even my grandma used to make green beans with bacon in them. I don't see why that is really necessary, personally.

I think reducing consumption of meat for ethical concerns is great, and I try to buy free-range whenever I can and some of my friends have even told me about local farms in the area from whence meat can be obtained and I think it might be nice to see how feasible that route is.

That being said, I do believe we have a "divine right" to eat meat, and I think that vegetarian propaganda is often aggravating and in-your-face, at least here in the USA. Hence I think it's pretty understandable why people have such a negative reaction to it.

One of the reasons that I said that vegetarian arguments can be heretical (I don't think they all are btw, as should now be clear from the above paragraphs) is that often underlying such arguments is the idea that animals are equal to man and deserve the same rights as we do. They aren't and they don't.

I tend to like the approach taken by one of the professors that attends one of my missions; he doesn't ever cook meat for himself, but if someone offers it to him at church he eats it because he does not want to break the social bond created over the shared meal.

Father Bless,

I think you may be confusing vegetarians with vegans. Vegans do tend to exhibit a cultish fervor about their views, and sometimes they do seem to equate animals with humans. In fact, some vegans elevate animals above humans. Peter Singer is a prime example. He supports abortion because he thinks the earth is overpopulated and thus humans are a threat to the animal kingdom. Such ideas are indeed quite heretical, but these views are not held by the average vegetarian who is merely concerned with being healthy and with the ethical treatment of animals. So, there is a big difference between vegans and vegetarians.

As for "breaking the social bond of a shared meal," I wouldn't expect a recovering alcoholic to accept my offer of a beer simply because he doesn't want to offend me. I can drink my beer and he can have coffee, water, or whatever, and we can have wonderful fellowship all the same. Similarly, if someone offers me bacon or pork chops, I will politely decline but will stay and fellowship with them all the same. If they reject my fellowship simply because I decline their food, then I doubt we have much to fellowship about in the first place.

Selam

Logged

"God is a consuming fire. And His fire is love."+ Gebre Menfes Kidus +

And this is not an isolated behavior. More often than not, people express incredulity in the most aggressive terms when they find out I like cooking vegan food, which boggles my mind because I do eat meat and love eating it, but sometimes I would just rather not. As vamrat pointed out, the backlash is often worse than the vegangelical (tm) propaganda.

We even have a similar thread on OC.net

Even on such a forum where presumably some percentage of the membership doesn't eat meat for large swathes of the year, the mention of vegetarianism (or even reduced consumption of meat!) is met with accusations of heresy and the proclamation that we have a divine right to eat meat.

I'm all for reduced consumption of meat and actually think it's pretty gross how many food items have meat by-products. I recall how even my grandma used to make green beans with bacon in them. I don't see why that is really necessary, personally.

I think reducing consumption of meat for ethical concerns is great, and I try to buy free-range whenever I can and some of my friends have even told me about local farms in the area from whence meat can be obtained and I think it might be nice to see how feasible that route is.

That being said, I do believe we have a "divine right" to eat meat, and I think that vegetarian propaganda is often aggravating and in-your-face, at least here in the USA. Hence I think it's pretty understandable why people have such a negative reaction to it.

One of the reasons that I said that vegetarian arguments can be heretical (I don't think they all are btw, as should now be clear from the above paragraphs) is that often underlying such arguments is the idea that animals are equal to man and deserve the same rights as we do. They aren't and they don't.

I tend to like the approach taken by one of the professors that attends one of my missions; he doesn't ever cook meat for himself, but if someone offers it to him at church he eats it because he does not want to break the social bond created over the shared meal.

After the clarification, I think we are of the same opinion...which is good. I make a point of not disagreeing with a priest!

I'm all for reduced consumption of meat and actually think it's pretty gross how many food items have meat by-products. I recall how even my grandma used to make green beans with bacon in them. I don't see why that is really necessary, personally.

I think reducing consumption of meat for ethical concerns is great, and I try to buy free-range whenever I can and some of my friends have even told me about local farms in the area from whence meat can be obtained and I think it might be nice to see how feasible that route is.

Frying vegetables in fat is just wasting anything. Why through out fat when you could use it for frying something else? Why not save bones and use them to make stock? If I roast a chicken on Saturday, I'll probably be eating by products until Wednesday. Not wasting a scrap is part of the solution towards fighting over-consumption.

If you can buy from local farms, try it out sometime. Like I mentioned, I don't eat meat on a day to day basis and reserve it for special occasions. Thus it is worth spending more for quality. It is also worth experimenting. A braised beef heart is pretty tasty. For other cutting out meat might be an option or even becoming a vegetarian. Regardless, I think the idea of reducing consumption is fundamentally Christian.

That being said, I do believe we have a "divine right" to eat meat, and I think that vegetarian propaganda is often aggravating and in-your-face, at least here in the USA. Hence I think it's pretty understandable why people have such a negative reaction to it.

It is unfortunate that PETA's extremists have conducted themselves in such a manner as to turn people off. On the other hand most vegetarians have a myriad of reason ranging from health concerns to taste (believe it or not, there are people who don't like the taste of meat) to ethical issues. Of course every person who thinks abortion is immoral likes to bomb clinics.

One of the reasons that I said that vegetarian arguments can be heretical (I don't think they all are btw, as should now be clear from the above paragraphs) is that often underlying such arguments is the idea that animals are equal to man and deserve the same rights as we do. They aren't and they don't.

I suppose I have the right to defecate in my living room. It's my apartment, why not? Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it is the best option. When I'm making these choices, I try to balance the best nutritional value for my family, environmental impact / sustainability and cost. I don't think anybody on this thread is equating humans with animals, so to cry heresy is a red herring. In fact it is ironic you'd intimate that since I remember you had a distinctly negative reaction to my consumption of dog meat due to sentimental reasons. I'm guessing your enthusiasm for always accepting meat if offered would wane if it were cat, dog or grasshopper.

i was a vegetarian today. had rice with avocado, black beans and tomatoes mixed in for lunch (it was all i could scrounge up today), and then at the bar i had some post-softball game fried mozzarella sticks with a couple of brewskis.

feel like a million bucks!

Thought begets heresy. Heresy begets retribution!

Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

Punch = the boss

PP

Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

Further proving the point that you can't have a normal discussion about vegetarianism without someone interjecting something about meat they ate. I ate buckwheat and beets for dinner and had strawberries for dessert. It was fantastic.

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

Further proving the point that you can't have a normal discussion about vegetarianism without someone interjecting something about meat they ate. I ate buckwheat and beets for dinner and had strawberries for dessert. It was fantastic.

I had corned beef hash with eggs for lunch. I am still paying the consequences...so is the poor guy at the office who has to sit near the bathroom.

Another friend of ours is a big weight lifter. He's always on about protein this and protein that. I often talk to the vegetarian friend about recipes and whatnot because, well, by trying to be an Orthodox Christian I'm vegan half the year. The weight lifting friend *always* has to talk about how we don't get enough protein and how it's unnatural for us to not eat meat, even when he's not involved in the conversation. He gets, at points, belligerent and quite obnoxious.

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

Further proving the point that you can't have a normal discussion about vegetarianism without someone interjecting something about meat they ate. I ate buckwheat and beets for dinner and had strawberries for dessert. It was fantastic.

Strawberries are excellent. I am allergic to them, but I eat them anyway. What does not kill us only delays the inevitable.

Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

Further proving the point that you can't have a normal discussion about vegetarianism without someone interjecting something about meat they ate. I ate buckwheat and beets for dinner and had strawberries for dessert. It was fantastic.

Strawberries are excellent. I am allergic to them, but I eat them anyway. What does not kill us only delays the inevitable.

Yeah, we had a warm winter and early spring. So we have some awesome local orange peppers which are fantastic skewered........with mushrooms, onions, pork, beef, shrimp marinated in worsteshire and grilled

PP

Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

I just thought that you all would like to know that I celebrated this weekend by grilling a pork tenderloin wrapped in bacon and sprinkled with crushed peppercorns. It was so tender that you could cut it with just a fork. This was complemented by potato salad covered with a layer of sliced hard boiled eggs seasoned with extra paprika. Enjoy your plants.

Further proving the point that you can't have a normal discussion about vegetarianism without someone interjecting something about meat they ate. I ate buckwheat and beets for dinner and had strawberries for dessert. It was fantastic.

Strawberries are excellent. I am allergic to them, but I eat them anyway. What does not kill us only delays the inevitable.

We had an early spring this year, so already lots of good fruit.

Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.