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Re: [SCA-Archery] painting/finishing wood bows

Hi, Eric the Black If you will take 1 part boiled linseed oil. 1 part white vinegar and 1 part turpentine. Mix well and put on bow. This hydrates the wood

Message 1 of 12
, Aug 1, 2000

Hi, Eric the Black

If you will take 1 part boiled linseed oil.
1 part white vinegar
and 1 part turpentine.

Mix well and put on bow.
This hydrates the wood and then can be finished off
with a rubbed paste varnish. If you want it a different
color then use some stain after hydrating the wood.

Then any time you want to clean or condition the bow
just use the same mixture on it and buff off.

This is the formula that the museums in England
use on their finest furniture.

This is also good for the wood furniture in you own castle.

Ldy Innes

INEZ ADAMS

As far as staining a bow. If you want a brown stain. simply use brown paste shoe polish. It is easy, cheep, and really easy to find. Ldy Innes

Message 2 of 12
, Aug 1, 2000

As far as staining a bow. If you want a brown stain. simply use
brown paste shoe polish. It is easy, cheep, and really easy
to find.

Ldy Innes

jrosswebb1@webtv.net

Wax should be used liberally on all bows, self bows and laminates if they will be used outdoors in any kind of damp or wet weather. Take this from some one

Message 3 of 12
, Aug 1, 2000

Wax should be used liberally on all bows, self bows and laminates if
they will be used outdoors in any kind of damp or wet weather. Take this
from some one that found out the hard way several years ago with my
first custom bow( an osage and fiberglass lammy longbow). I was hunting
in snow and rain and thought that the fiberglass made the bow impervious
to wet. A few weeks after hunting, the bow de-laminated and when I sent
it back to the bowyer he told me that it was soggy inside and warned me
that fiberglass is not waterproof, in fact it is hydro-porous.
He was a gentleman and furnished me with another bow.
My mundane profession is an artist and consultant to art supply
manufactures and paint and vanish suppliers. Shellac is ultra sensitive
to heat and is slightly soluble in water. It should only be used as an
initial sealer before the varnish or oil rubs go on.
Any of the drying oils(linseed,walnut,poppy) are traditional and fine.
If you heat the oil and dissolve beeswax or carnuba wax into it and
after it has cooled a bit you may dilute it with turpentine or mineral
spirits(never add while hot!) you can make a fine traditional finish
which will be somewhat water resistant.
Most of the contemporary bowyers(John Strunk, Bill Matlock,etc.) like
Verathane as the final varnish. I know it's not traditional but it works
great and is relatively easy to use and doesn't suffer from cracking and
checking as readily as the drying oils. Any good spar varnish will also
work, but even after the bow is varnished, you want to continue to apply
wax paste to it. Wax is the best protection against moisture.
The standard for self bows is to regularly rub them down with an oily
rag(linseed oil).
This is a process recommended by Maurice Thompson in"The Witchery of
Archery"and it is more appealing than the Cherokee practice of rubbing
their bows down with lard, which darkens and goes sour, but does protect
against moisture.
I rub my self bows down with cold pressed linseed oil(the same oil I use
to make oil paint) and it is the purest form of the oil. I buy it in
health food stores where it is 80% cheaper than the inferior product
sold in art supply stores.
Respectfully,
Geoffrei St. Albans of Eastwood

Lord Conall

I have a hickory longbow that I smoothed with steel wool and used tung oil on. I also put it on my arrows to help keep the moist out, at least a little. I

Message 4 of 12
, Aug 1, 2000

I have a hickory longbow that I smoothed with steel wool and used tung oil
on. I also put it on my arrows to help keep the moist out, at least a
little. I re-oil my arrows once a year before the season starts. So far,
so good...

Regards,
Conall Riabhach
Aquaterra, An Tir

> Heilsa,
>
> I just got my first traditional bow and it has no finish, varnish or
> paint. I'm wondering what would be best to handle the Texas heat and
> humidity. Any thoughts?
>
> Erik the Black

Greg Christensen

... This is one thing that I have to disagree with I made a cedar strip canoe which has fiber glass on both the exterior and interior. Granted that the fiber

Message 5 of 12
, Aug 2, 2000

>that fiberglass is not waterproof, in fact it is hydro-porous.

This is one thing that I have to disagree with I made a cedar strip canoe
which has fiber glass on both the exterior and interior. Granted that the
fiber glass without the epoxy will let water thru though it won't keep
shape. If the bow was not sealed on the edges (not belly or back) then the
moisture will gain access to the wood and the fiberglass on the belly and
back will help to hold it in. Also if the fiberglass is not coated
correclty with epoxy and leaves gaps and void which would also let water in.
Just remember that most modern boats are made with fiber glass and they
don't normally sink.

Fiber glass does break down under UV rays (sunlight) so apply wax with UV
protector is recommended.

The fiberglass fabric and resin are not waterproof. The coating on fiberglass boats which makes them waterproof is the gelcoat. That is the final finish

Message 6 of 12
, Aug 2, 2000

The fiberglass fabric and resin are not waterproof. The coating on
fiberglass boats which makes them waterproof is the gelcoat. That is the final
finish which makes the boat smooth, gives it color, and makes it shiny. Once
the gelcoat has been breached, the boat can absorb water and fiberglass can
"rot". This means it delaminates (freezing often helps this process along) and
starts to work one layer against another until it destroys itself. This happens
if there are any void spaces, or there is any of the fiberglass fabric which did
not completely absorb the resin.
I've seen many a boat go to the crushers because someone sanded through the
gelcoat while trying to get all the bottom paint off and then just put new
bottom paint back on without repairing the gelcoat.
I would not rely on a semi-rigid coating to keep your bow waterproof over a
long period of time. Repeated oiling is better because you are replenishing the
moisture in the wood.

Calum McKay

Greg Christensen wrote:

> >that fiberglass is not waterproof, in fact it is hydro-porous.
>
> This is one thing that I have to disagree with I made a cedar strip canoe
> which has fiber glass on both the exterior and interior. Granted that the
> fiber glass without the epoxy will let water thru though it won't keep
> shape. If the bow was not sealed on the edges (not belly or back) then the
> moisture will gain access to the wood and the fiberglass on the belly and
> back will help to hold it in. Also if the fiberglass is not coated
> correclty with epoxy and leaves gaps and void which would also let water in.
> Just remember that most modern boats are made with fiber glass and they
> don't normally sink.
>
> Fiber glass does break down under UV rays (sunlight) so apply wax with UV
> protector is recommended.
>
> Gregge The Archer
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Greg Christensen

The epoxy resin is waterproof if it was not then my wood strip canoe would be waterlogged which it is not. Yes if there are void spaces as below there will be

Message 7 of 12
, Aug 2, 2000

The epoxy resin is waterproof if it was not then my wood strip canoe would
be waterlogged which it is not. Yes if there are void spaces as below there
will be problems....You are right about the gel coat (a special blend of
epoxy resin) if it is removed the fiber glass breaks downs if it is not
protected from UV rays or in your case water freezing in the voids. Your
also referring to boats made with fiberglass mat material which is not the
standard fabric that has a weave to it, but the strands go in all directions
like wool felt.

I don't know if oiling will actually go through the epoxy resin and
fiberglass, but I do know that if there is moister in the air then the wood
will pick some up.

Gregge the Archer

>

This happens

>if there are any void spaces, or there is any of the fiberglass fabric
>which did
>not completely absorb the resin.
> I've seen many a boat go to the crushers because someone sanded
>through the
>gelcoat while trying to get all the bottom paint off and then just put new
>bottom paint back on without repairing the gelcoat.
> I would not rely on a semi-rigid coating to keep your bow waterproof
>over a
>long period of time. Repeated oiling is better because you are
>replenishing the
>moisture in the wood.
>
>Calum McKay
>
>

I have sought the oppinion of a professional. First, my appollogies. Resin IS waterproof. The issue of removing gelcoat is one of exposing void spaces and

Message 8 of 12
, Aug 2, 2000

I have sought the oppinion of a professional.
First, my appollogies. Resin IS waterproof. The issue of removing gelcoat
is one of exposing void spaces and creating voids between fiberglass fibers.
Second, bows may typically have the sides exposed and just have a
polyurithane or varnish finish which can break down and allow moisture to enter
and/or leave the wood, requiring maintainance periodically.
Third, stress fractures in the resin over time and repeated bendings may
allow moisture acces to the wood.
Fourth, the matting material used in fiberglass construction makes no
difference to its abbillity to TRANSPORT water. Fiberglass matting won't absorb
water into the fibers, but it will allow water between the fibers. I was not
refering to boats constructed with matting or with roving in particular as they
bath have the same properties if not fully resinned.
I think, however, that we are striving for the same point, which is; if
fiberglass is not aplied correctly or breaks down in some way, the wood
underneath is at risk. Oiling wood is a good way to restore moisture. If resin
begins to crack, a repair to the fiberglass is necessary for the strength of the
bow and for the protection of the wood underneath. You may want to seek the aid
of a professional in repairing the fiberglass if you are unsure of how to do it
properly.

Calum McKay

Greg Christensen wrote:

> The epoxy resin is waterproof if it was not then my wood strip canoe would
> be waterlogged which it is not. Yes if there are void spaces as below there
> will be problems....You are right about the gel coat (a special blend of
> epoxy resin) if it is removed the fiber glass breaks downs if it is not
> protected from UV rays or in your case water freezing in the voids. Your
> also referring to boats made with fiberglass mat material which is not the
> standard fabric that has a weave to it, but the strands go in all directions
> like wool felt.
>
> I don't know if oiling will actually go through the epoxy resin and
> fiberglass, but I do know that if there is moister in the air then the wood
> will pick some up.
>
> Gregge the Archer
>
> >
> This happens
> >if there are any void spaces, or there is any of the fiberglass fabric
> >which did
> >not completely absorb the resin.
> > I've seen many a boat go to the crushers because someone sanded
> >through the
> >gelcoat while trying to get all the bottom paint off and then just put new
> >bottom paint back on without repairing the gelcoat.
> > I would not rely on a semi-rigid coating to keep your bow waterproof
> >over a
> >long period of time. Repeated oiling is better because you are
> >replenishing the
> >moisture in the wood.
> >
> >Calum McKay
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
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> Get paid to surf at http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=HOK790
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> [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]

jrosswebb1@webtv.net

I think we are all on the same page here essentially about fiberglass and its need to be sealed. The use of fiberglass cloth to make bows stopped about 40

Message 9 of 12
, Aug 2, 2000

I think we are all on the same page here essentially about
fiberglass and its need to be sealed.
The use of fiberglass cloth to make bows stopped about 40 years
ago and I've seen way too many accidents with them at Pennsic where they
delaminate in a very dramatic way, even after a thorough inspection
which they passed.They dry out, get old and fatigued, and delamination
is almost impossible to detect,until it happens then, BOOM!
The type of fiberglass laminations used on most modern bows is
where the fibers are laid out it vertical strands(much like the way you
lay out sinew for a sinew backing) and then adhered to themselves with
the resin,The bowyers purchase these pre-made laminations. These lammys
are then adhered to other lammys including the wood ones with a heat
cured synthetic resin glue. The way it was explained to me by some of
the bowyers I spoke to about my unfortunate accident with my hunting bow
in the early 1980's is that microscopically, there are passages between
the fibers which will eventually allow moisture through the fibers. The
fiberglass and resin are not absorbent but porous, the wood is absorbent
and almost acts like a wick.This is why all good bowyers seal all of the
bow, not just the edges and recommend that the owners continue to oil or
preferably wax on a regular basis.
Now before I go out hunting, I thoroughly wax my bows with a
beeswax paste, or Johnsons paste wax or Butchers wax and I carry some
with me into the woods.
On my self bows I use linseed oil.
But people PLEASE continue to care for your bows! I don't mean to
burst any bubbles here, but just because your bow is made with
fiberglass. it is not invulnerable to moisture.
Respectfully,
Geoffrei St. Albans of Eastwood
Canton of Lions End
East Kingdom

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