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Chase Blackburn

It's been well documented that I think Blackburn is very underwhelming at the MIKE backer spot. Some of you have even told me I'm a fool for thinking so. Gmenfansince90 even told me to stop posting in this forum altogether.

Well good thing for me he isn't the Forum Police I guess.

I found this article written yesterday interesting and was wondering my fellow Giant Fan's sentiments about it or if any of you read it:

"Chase Blackburn is entrenched as the Giants middle linebacker despite the desire of many fans to see Mark Herzlich take over that role."

One of the most polarizing topics regarding the New York Giants these days revolves around the performance of middle linebacker Chase Blackburn.

Is Blackburn's perceived lack of athleticism and ability physically dominate the line of scrimmage killing the Giants, especially in run defense?

Does Blackburn's intelligence, knowledge of the intricacies of the Giants' defense and his ability to get both himself and kis teammates lined up properly help the Giants' defense more than any lack of physical skills might be detrimental?

How long is Blackburn going to keep the middle linebacker seat warm for Mark Herzlich, anyway?

So, let's discuss Blackburn.

Traditional statistics tell us that Blackburn actually leads the Giants in tackles with 42. He has two sacks, two forced fumbles (both Sunday vs. the Washington Redskins) and an interception. So, those raw numbers are not bad.

Pro Football Focus, though, would have us believe that Blackburn is the weak link in the Giants' defense. He is, by far, the lowest-graded player in the PFF +/- system, with a score of -14.7 for season, including what looks like an awful -11.2 score vs. the run.

For a further reference, that -14.7 score gives Blackburn the second-lowest PFF grade among linebackers in the league. Only Cincinnati's Rey Maualuga (-15.7) is worse overall. No inside linebacker in the NFL has a lower score against the run.

Giants' coaches talk constantly about Blackburn's intelligence, his ability to quarterback the defense, to get teammates into the proper spots and to diagnose plays and put himself in the right spot -- even if you watch and believe that Blackburn's athleticism sometimes betrays him.

Head coach Tom Coughlin talked about those things again on Monday, admitting that Blackburn is "most difficult" to get out of the lineup.

"You watch the guy play, he's always talking, moving, always making sure that he communicates with his teammates," Coughlin said. "Always trying to put people in the right spots, always coming up, it seems, in those situations where he can be a factor in a play even if it's as you say, not the original. He comes to try and make something happen to the ball."

Why is Blackburn, PFF grade and the Giants' obvious struggles in run defense at times this season notwithstanding, still the middle linebacker? Think back to last season.

The Giants did not offer Blackburn a contract at the start of the season -- and neither did anyone else. Jonathan Goff was the starting middle linebacker and general manager Jerry Reese had brought in an impressive array of young linebackers to learn and -- eventually -- take over.

Goff got hurt right before the season opener, leaving a natural opening to re-sign Blackburn. The Giants passed, instead opting for the potential of rookie sixth-round pick Greg Jones. That was a disaster. They tried Herzlich. He did OK in two games, but got hurt.

Through all of that the Giants had Michael Boley and safety Deon Grant trying -- without real success -- to call the defense and get players lined up. Confusion reigned and it seemed no one on the Giants' defense, including defensive coordinator Perry Fewell, knew how to fix it.

When Herzlich got hurt the Giants finally summoned Blackburn off his couch. With no practice he stepped right into the lineup, helped a confused group settle down and was a huge part of the reason why the defense played so well en route to the Super Bowl title.

If you were scouting both Blackburn and Herzlich as NFL Draft prospects, you would undoubtedly take Herzlich first. He is more athletic, probably more physical at the point of attack and probably a more punishing tackler. The Giants, though, still trust Blackburn's ability to make sure both he and the defense do the right thing.

"Mark has learned a lot from Chase," Coughlin said. "I think Mark will be a good middle backer going forward because he's learning from a good one."

The funny part about the Giants now leaning on Blackburn is how long they shied away from him, and how obvious they made it that they saw the same limitations that fans now scream about.

When Antonio Pierce was injured in 2008 the Giants turned to Blackburn for a few games -- but only until they could get the untested Goff ready to play.

In 2010 the Giants drafted middle linebacker Phillip Dillard, ostensibly to push Blackburn out the door.

In 2011, the Giants did push Blackburn out the door. They drafted Jones and Jacquian Williams and brought in free agents Herzlich and Spencer Paysinger.

So, don't kid yourself. The Giants understand what they have -- and don't have -- with Blackburn quarterbacking the defense.

Right now, they obviously believe all of the intangible things outweigh any physical limitations.

Considering how much success they have enjoyed since Blackburn got up off his couch and put on the No. 93 jersey that is hard to argue with.

I know Blackburn has been solid but as I've argued I've seen him burned by the run a ton this year. I watch every game and I've seen him trucked by opposing RB's several times. I know we're winning so it's tough to make a change, but how much better could we potentially be?

Maybe our defense wouldn't give up so much yardage over the middle with Herzlich in there. That seems to be our weakest area especially in Pass Defense. Those short to intermediate routes over the middle to slot WR's, RB's and TE's.

Idk, just wanted to see what my fellow Giant fans think. I for one would like to see if we could improve our D by plugging in Herzlich even though we are winning games.

Originally Posted by Gibby23

The only way I will be proven wrong is if the giants win in SF and that isn't going to happen. You can keep saying they beat the Packers on the road and all that, but they are not playing the Packers this Sunday. The Niners will win by 10 plus points..... Numbers don't lie only you and some giants fan do to make yourself feel better about the loss your team has coming up.

PFF blows. It's not baseball, there's no sabermetrics to define a player.

With that out of the way, I do agree that he's not your ideal MLB. His best role was back when he would spot sub for Pierce and be a leader on STs. He knows the system well and is mature, but I think the potential ability of Herzlich is too good to pass up.

BUT....I'm not a coach and I don't see the day-to-day practices on Herzlich. For all we know he can read an offense and struggles in pass recognition and coverage.

Personally I think our LBs should be Kiwi-Boley-Rivers. That gets your top LB talent on the field and I think Boley is fully capable of handling the MIKE role. Or sway with Rivers who has some MIKE experience. Either way those are our top 3 LBs right now.

I know this is stupid but i follow football heavy and im not a coach either. But I coach my 2013 Madden team pretty well. Again this is no comparison but ill share i've used the giants 3 years straight in madden with custom depth charts and to be honest best line backer core i have to date is kiwi-rivers-boley i do work with the speed of rivers as my MLB. But in real football i'd start blackburn he simply knows our system best and commands the D very well.

PFF blows. It's not baseball, there's no sabermetrics to define a player.

With that out of the way, I do agree that he's not your ideal MLB. His best role was back when he would spot sub for Pierce and be a leader on STs. He knows the system well and is mature, but I think the potential ability of Herzlich is too good to pass up.

BUT....I'm not a coach and I don't see the day-to-day practices on Herzlich. For all we know he can read an offense and struggles in pass recognition and coverage.

Personally I think our LBs should be Kiwi-Boley-Rivers. That gets your top LB talent on the field and I think Boley is fully capable of handling the MIKE role. Or sway with Rivers who has some MIKE experience. Either way those are our top 3 LBs right now.

It's been well documented that I think Blackburn is very underwhelming at the MIKE backer spot. Some of you have even told me I'm a fool for thinking so. Gmenfansince90 even told me to stop posting in this forum altogether.

Well good thing for me he isn't the Forum Police I guess.

I found this article written yesterday interesting and was wondering my fellow Giant Fan's sentiments about it or if any of you read it:

I know Blackburn has been solid but as I've argued I've seen him burned by the run a ton this year. I watch every game and I've seen him trucked by opposing RB's several times. I know we're winning so it's tough to make a change, but how much better could we potentially be?

Maybe our defense wouldn't give up so much yardage over the middle with Herzlich in there. That seems to be our weakest area especially in Pass Defense. Those short to intermediate routes over the middle to slot WR's, RB's and TE's.

Idk, just wanted to see what my fellow Giant fans think. I for one would like to see if we could improve our D by plugging in Herzlich even though we are winning games.

lol way to try and twist things. I never once commented to you about Blackburn. I called you a tool for being a fairweather fan who throws his team under the bus, shows no faith, and then hops back on after a comeback/win

Sure we can do better, but as we has seen in the past...we can do much worse.

We are winning now and our defense has been getting better lately.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Originally Posted by El Patito

Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.

Guys, Mark Herzlich is clearly being groomed to be our MLB of the future.

Is Chase the best MLB? No of course not. Is he solid? No probably not. Is he average? Probably at best he's average and in reality he's below average.

The point is our defense has proven they can play well with him in the middle. Think of him like a white Antonio Pierce who was in his last few years with us. He's slow and struggles in the open field and misses easy tackles game to game but he's very smart and knows our defense well.

Mark Herzlich will be our future MLB. In fact, I think he starts for us next year.

You posted that article to support you in your cry to start Herzlich when in reality that article is of the stance of most everyone else where we like Herzlich for the future, but right now Blackburns mental aptitude outweighs his physical shortcomings.

Guys, Mark Herzlich is clearly being groomed to be our MLB of the future.

Is Chase the best MLB? No of course not. Is he solid? No probably not. Is he average? Probably at best he's average and in reality he's below average.

The point is our defense has proven they can play well with him in the middle. Think of him like a white Antonio Pierce who was in his last few years with us. He's slow and struggles in the open field and misses easy tackles game to game but he's very smart and knows our defense well.

Mark Herzlich will be our future MLB. In fact, I think he starts for us next year.