Interview: David Wants To Fly

David Wants To Fly (trailer)

The Transcendental Meditation movement has caused a stir by making claims about yogic flying and achieving world peace through meditation – and by enlisting David Lynch as its star spokesperson.

After graduating from the Deutsche Film- und Fernsehakademie in Berlin, Hessen-born David Sieveking was struggling when he turned to TM for help and began recording his experiences… on film. But as his documentary took a more critical turn, the peace-promoting organisation reacted angrily.

Despite legal threats and Lynch’s efforts to stop its release, the resulting film, David Wants to Fly, premiered at this year’s Berlinale. It opens in local cinemas on May 6.

David Wants to Fly documents your personal quest for inspiration. Why did you decide to make a film about your own life?

In fact, it wasn’t a real decision. It happened like life happens, like an evolution. First, there was my interest in David Lynch, and there was my frustration with my own film career. I finished film school, didn’t have a job and couldn’t get a foot in the door. There was this opportunity to meet my idol, but I didn’t really know it could become a movie. I just had this intuition that it would be cool to film this situation. It’s interesting, because he says “You’re going to become a better filmmaker,” and this is the film, so you can actually see whether or not it’s going to work.

Some of TM’s concepts sound a bit ridiculous to outsiders. Did you buy into that?

I think the idea of world peace is not a stupid idea – it’s a nice idea. I feel that if everyone on the planet became more mindful and more meditative, it would be a more peaceful world. The question is, how do we get to this point? It’s not as much about meditation as about what we do in life. It’s about actions. It’s just a step, but it gets a little bit confused when meditation and yogic flying become more important than the actual goal.

Did you get to a point where you thought that maybe you really could fly?

The concept of yogic flying looks ridiculous from the outside because what you actually see are people hopping around on a mattress in the belief that it helps world peace. But these people have extraordinary experiences while they’re doing this, and it happens in their mind. There are many accounts of outer body experiences and feelings of levitation. I think group dynamics also play an important part: you become part of a group, and you only connect with people who believe these things, and they speak this language of invincibility, immortality and flying. You change your vocabulary and then it’s not ridiculous anymore: hopping is now flying. Healthy life becomes immortality. You feel peaceful, and then you say you’re invincible.

The TM organisation threatened to sue you. What happened?

I received legal threats from the David Lynch Foundation’s attorney. He said David Lynch was not very amused and didn’t want to be part of the film. If I integrated him, they would take legal steps. This became more severe when it became clear that it was going to premiere at the Berlinale. He even tried to stop the premiere – he is very well connected – but the Berlinale was courageous enough not to take it out of the programme. People from the movement wrote letters with legal threats to the production company. But until now, no steps have actually been taken. On a personal level, I get emails and calls from people who say I’m a traitor and tell me I will be reborn as a cockroach.

What do you think of the movement’s plans to build a ‘university’ on the Teufelsberg?

It’s a completely unrealistic PR campaign that is very typical of TM. I investigated this very thoroughly. There’s a huge mortgage on the area – more than €30 million that is actually owed by the owner to the bank. You wouldn’t want the area because of the debt. There is also this ruin of the monitoring station from the Cold War, which would cost around €2 million to tear down.

But the biggest problem is actually that the area is officially protected forest. You don’t have a right to build a university there. It will never happen. And so far, the TM movement hasn’t paid the money. So there’s a legal battle between the owner and TM. They’re suing the organisation for not paying…

But that’s pretty typical for the TM movement: there’s always the notion that the idea is most important. When it will actually be materialised doesn’t actually matter – whether it’s tomorrow or in a thousand years. They constantly lay cornerstones and perform the ceremony, but nothing happens. They’ve done this in 15 countries – 15 “invincibility universities”, but where are they?

TM is not very popular in Berlin, especially after what happened at the Teufelsberg’s inaugural ceremony: Lynch’s German associate, Emmanuel Schiffgens, made a speech about an ‘invincible Germany’ that didn’t really impress anyone…

If David Lynch talks about invincibility – he’s an artist. And he’s known for being quite weird – you don’t associate this with something military. When Maharishi says, “I want to make every nation invincible” – he’s a guru from India. It’s like a metaphor. But if a German guy says he wants to make this country invincible, you can’t help thinking of the Nazis. His speech was completely insensitive to German history and the audience.

And then, to make things worse, when some guy shouted, “Adolf Hitler wanted the same!”, his answer was: “Yes, but unfortunately he didn’t succeed because he didn’t have the right technique.” It’s just scary that a guy who’s been in the movement for 30 years – he was trained by Maharishi personally, and is considered to be the most enlightened person in Germany – is completely crazy.

How do you feel about David Lynch now?

We shouldn’t measure an artist by what he believes or what he does as he gets older. I think his films are just as great as they were before, and I have to make a distinction between him as an artist and him as a spiritual teacher. I think he’s a great artist, but I don’t think he’s a great spiritual leader David Lynch is really an idealist. His aim is to create world peace, I believe that. He puts money into it. It’s not like he’s a cynical guy who makes people join the movement to make more money.

At the moment, he is about to finish a film about his version of the story: the definitive movie about the Maharishi, as TM is proclaiming. At the Berlinale premiere of mine, one TM follower stood up and said, “This was David Sieveking’s version, and soon there will be David Lynch’s version. Then you can see where the truth is.” I’m looking forward to seeing his film and his version of the subject.

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Comments (6)

abandoned seriousness

This guy was like a child making monkey faces and funny sounds when grown up speaks. Those electrodes to the head were EEG equipment, but for him this were things getting too complicated. Maybe we should throw all such equipment away from anywere then, hospitals etc.? And then abandon all research in any fields of life as well, since we are here dealing with abandoned seriousness and ment to take it for real?

beritmore than 4 years ago

Judith Bourque - Robes of Silk, Feet of Clay

Dear David! I learnt to know about you through Judith. I practiced tm for 26 years and I am now happily divorced from Maharish and the tm-movement. I saw the movie clip on youtube and I would like to see your movie. How can this be possible? I am reading Judith's book and it is filling in some gaps for me. Maharishi is for me the most manupulative, greedy, and self-centered spiritual teacher I have come across. It took me quite some time to get back on my feet after a long time in the dark. Greetings from Satyananda. www.satyananda.se.

Klas Satyananda Westholmmore than 4 years ago

the film

i think its great what you have done. Keep up the good work. Great Film. Well Done.

rasberrymore than 5 years ago

Personal observation

I was interviewed and filmed by David and appear for approximately 0.75 seconds in his film. I found David to be a very serious, very professional and at the same time fun-loving individual. I had spent 2 years as one of Mahesh's secretaries (but not one of the skin boys), had helped create the SCI course and even helped train 1,500 teachers in La Antilla, Spain. Mahesh "rewarded" me, so to speak, by sending me to India to teach SCI.

I felt I knew Mahesh fairly well, having watched him, day after day, moulding people to his way of thinking and getting them to do whatever he desired.

David's film very skilfully demonstrates that Mahesh and his trained minions are not necessarily interested in the spiritual welfare (whatever that is) of the world quite as much as in the financial gains of their very fascist-styled organization.

People need to see this film.

Sudarshamore than 5 years ago

david on the Teufelsberg

Hello David Sieveking
I really enjoyed watching your film in Berlin the other day, coincidence has it I went up the Teufelsberg earlier that day and I agree, a good experience cannot be bought, it might come to you as you contemplate a place and its history.
Rolf, Amsterdam

rolf bronmore than 5 years ago

David wants to fly

Hi David Sieveking,
grant film, great laugh, thanks for your courage.
I feel sorry that you did not conntact the independent (FREIE) transcendental art of meditation before you entered into the hotchpotch of the TM movement.
It would have saved you 2000.- € and you might have met meditating people not talking of invincibility, world peace and the key to all problems but practical people like you and me with a good common sense and humor.