"the kids didn't like marilyn manson music and didn't really have much to do with video games."

fark farkity fark fark. i remember when columbine went down and all anyone could do was try to point blame. Doom was why they did it. Marilyn Manson was why they did it. They were soooo bullied. And people wonder why no one believes in authority anymore because it seems that all the authorities can do is farking lie.

Dave Cullen's "Columbine" systematically debunked pretty much everything I thought I knew about Columbine. The media storyline was the bullied turning on those who had done the bullying, but it was actually a school bombing gone wrong (Eric and Dylan went in with guns after the bombs failed to go off), with a healthy dose of sociopath.

taurusowner:How do this guy's claims have any more veracity than the "myths"? He just makes a list of 7 general ideas regarding Columbine in his blog and then write his own opposing views. Not sources, no quotes or evidence. Just his own views.

Considering its a book review I'm going to guess that is his source. But then again I did read the whole article.

How do this guy's claims have any more veracity than the "myths"? He just makes a list of 7 general ideas regarding Columbine in his blog and then write his own opposing views. Not sources, no quotes or evidence. Just his own views.

The blog is saying it's true. And myths aren't necessarily all bullshait.

No they're not:

Myth #6: Cassie Bernall was martyred for her faith in God.

Truth: According to the eyewitness under the table with her, Cassie was shot when Eric poked his shotgun under the table and said, "Peekaboo." The 911 tape verifies this testimony.

The martyr story arose from the testimony from another student in the library, Craig Scott (brother to victim, Rachel Scott), who recounted a conversation that took place across the room. Valeen Schnurr was the one who actually professed her faith in God, and this took place after she was shot. As she lay bleeding, she prayed, "Oh my God, don't let me die." Dylan turned around and asked her, "God? Do you believe in God?" Valeen said, "Yes, I believe in God." When the killer asked why, she replied, "Because it's how my parents raised me."

Myth #1: The Columbine killers were social misfits who were bullied by their classmates.

Truth: Eric Harris was a lady's man, a charmer who had a number of good friends at school. Dylan Klebold went to the prom the weekend before the shooting.

Both killers attended football games, dances, and school plays. Despite the media reports, neither of them were linked to the "Trench Coat Mafia." Nor were they part of a street gang or known to dress in Gothic style.

Truth: Columbine was a failed bombing. Eric and Dylan planted a bomb inside the cafeteria and then went outside to wait for it to explode. Their initial plan was to shoot students who tried to escape the building in the aftermath. Only once the bomb failed to ignite did they make their way inside to begin shooting students.

Myth #3: The Columbine killers targeted certain kinds of students.

Truth: Although initial news reports claimed the Columbine killers had targeted minorities, jocks, and Christians, the killing was indiscriminate. Their initial plan was to blow up hundreds of students in the cafeteria. When the bombs failed to go off, they killed students randomly. Interestingly enough, Eric's friends described him as a sports enthusiast, and two of his best friends were Asian and African American.

Myth #4: The Columbine situation was a hostage standoff.

Truth: It is true that news reports initially treated the situation at Columbine as a hostage standoff, perhaps due to the fact that police officers did not enter the building until more than 40 minutes after the shooting began. But the Columbine killers never planned to hold hostages. Their goal was total destruction, not particular demands. It took three hours for the SWAT teams to find the killers (3:15 p.m.). They had been dead since 12:08, just forty-nine minutes after the attack began.

Myth #5. There were no warning signs that could have prevented the Columbine massacre.

Truth: Other parents had complained about Eric Harris, multiple times. Both Eric and Dylan had been arrested before. Thirteen months before the shooting, investigators discovered evidence that Eric was building pipe bombs. Dozens of pages of obscene threats on the internet were also documented. The sheriff's department covered up the initial evidence that signaled the threat.

Myth #6: Cassie Bernall was martyred for her faith in God.

Truth: According to the eyewitness under the table with her, Cassie was shot when Eric poked his shotgun under the table and said, "Peekaboo." The 911 tape verifies this testimony.

The martyr story arose from the testimony from another student in the library, Craig Scott (brother to victim, Rachel Scott), who recounted a conversation that took place across the room. Valeen Schnurr was the one who actually professed her faith in God, and this took place after she was shot. As she lay bleeding, she prayed, "Oh my God, don't let me die." Dylan turned around and asked her, "God? Do you believe in God?" Valeen said, "Yes, I believe in God." When the killer asked why, she replied, "Because it's how my parents raised me."

Myth #7: Columbine students and teachers were able to communicate with each other via cell phones.

Truth: Though some students were able to call newscasters, the teachers and students hiding in the school were unable to communicate due to the ear-piercing fire alarm that blared for hours. The sprinkler system flooded the cafeteria, and the fire alarm and strobe lighting caused difficulty in communications with the SWAT team. Much of the terror and confusion that day was caused by the nerve-wracking alarm system that interfered with communication.

How do this guy's claims have any more veracity than the "myths"? He just makes a list of 7 general ideas regarding Columbine in his blog and then write his own opposing views. Not sources, no quotes or evidence. Just his own views.

TFA is a book review that dispels the myths. He's summarizing from the book, not just making it up as he goes.

gunga galunga:GregoryD: I've read the speech and it is exactly as it is depicted in a film. A giant fark off to the mayor and the people affected by the tragedy. It is far more embarrassing when Heston is intercut saying from his "cold dead hands" and a mourning father.

Here is the transcript of the actual speech. Michael Moore edited in the "from my cold, dead hands" from a speech he gave a year later.

You never notcied how Charlton Heston's shirt and tie magically change colors?

So did everyone else. That is my point. Nobody thinks they are a part of the same speech, but it shows the coldness of the organization.

That it is absurd of you to repeatedly compare the victims of the two problems.It was absurd to suggest we excuse the disaster of profiling, harassing and demonizing innocent kids simply because the kids in Colorado were dead.And it's absurd to suggest that talking about the problem of profiling, harassing and demonizing innocent kids is the same as some strawman argument you're furiously trying to build, about who the 'real' or 'bigger' victims really are.

The point that you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that every outcast teenager profiled, harassed and demonized was an *unnecessary* *additional* victim that society created without a shred of fact or logic to justify it. It was a classic witch-hunt in which our lingering prejudice was allowed to run wild under the guise of trying to 'do something' about a problem displayed in Columbine that was spectacularly divorced from any understanding of what the actual problem in Columbine *was*.

I remember every idiot columnist taking the opportunity to beat up a favorite boogey man. "It was those violent video games!!" "Bullying!!" "It's those violent movies." And the only person was Chris Rock who said "what about crazy? What ever happened to plain old crazy?"

The worst was the "goths? OMG what are Goths? Parents, here's how to tell if your children are goths" media.

Local news in DC had an anchor saying "they were goths. are goths a gang?" and then they cut to a live shot of a reporter standing in front of a nightclub called Heaven and Hell so she could could say, "the police tell us 'no,' they do not consider goths a gang" with that weird cadence they all use. I could not figure out WTF Club Heaven and Hell had to do with it, other than it's name. How was that decision made? We can't just have the anchor make an idiotic statement about goths and gangs, let's have a reporter stand outside a club that has nothing to do with anything and make an idiotic statement about goths and gangs. Yes, that'll be some might fine reporting there Lou.

karmaceutical: "All these kids killed in this tragedy, whatever it was, and your stuck on some other kid who got "grilled" by his faculty?"

Really? Everyone is justified in harassing and profiling kids who don't already fit in, based on lies and fabrications about a factually-unrelated event, because the victims of the unrelated event are dead? That's an airtight guide to the advancement of civilized society right there.

We might as well harass and profile kids who don't fit in for their inevitable support of international terrorism and attempts to blow up airplanes.Because, ya know, those kids in Columbine are dead so what's a little extra bullying and a few TSA grope checks?

Ant:One of the comments in the article: Myth #1 is patently false. While the killers were not complete social outcasts, they were indeed bullied and targets of attacks by athletes at the school. By every stretch they were absolutely "social misfits who were bullied by their classmates"

Also, they were indeed friends with many of the Trench Coat Mafia, who as a group had no responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold

I'm not so sure being bullied by jocks can be counted as being social outcasts. Jocks, as a group, were jerks to almost everyone.

One of the comments actually links to Wikipedia for their side of the story, compared to actually reading Columbine (by Dave Cullen), one of the most thoroughly researched books that I have ever read? Holy shiat people cannot get over their own delusions.

Columbine (the book) documents that Harris and Klebold (particularly Harris) WERE BULLIES. Their own writings go a long way to explain why they wanted to complete the attack (and "to get back at bullies" was not one of them). Harris was a prototypical sociopath.

The book specifically talks about the TCM. It is a thorough, intense book, that Cullen worked on for almost ten years. It's a great read that blows many of the Columbine myths out of the water (with actual evidence, not "feelings").

karmaceutical:Callous: karmaceutical: So how does the idea that Columbine was a failed bombing and not a planned shooting change anything exactly?

Believing that girl was shot for her faith doesn't change anything either. She's still dead. But understanding exactly what happened and the true motivations and plans will better help in identifying and preventing the next one.

Someone posted above that they got grilled because they fit the false profile of the killers. That matters. He got put through that because the faculty was given bad/false information. You can't learn from an incident like this or work to prevent another one if you are given lies, myths, and omissions as accurate information.

All these kids killed in this tragedy, whatever it was, and your stuck on some other kid who got "grilled" by his faculty?

No, I'm stuck on preventing it from happening again. You can't learn from or prevent reoccurrence of anything when so much of the information you have about it is wrong. While they were grilling him and everyone else like him they were passing over the kids that actually fit the profile of the killers. Hopefully none of the tragedies that have occurred since occurred because the people charged with protecting those involved were looking at all the wrong kids because they had a totally inaccurate profile.

RET71:I didn't know about #1 until I read that article. Knowing they weren't bullied outcasts turns the way one looks at Columbine upside down.

I was a HS teacher in NJ when this happened. Directly afterwards, we were to report any "loners", "quiet types", and "misfits" to the guidance counselors. I also helped out the drama coach--those labels applied to pretty much everyone in the drama department. It was a stupid witchhunt and all of us teachers knew it. Not to sound prescient or like a know-it-all, but when the media started playing up that whole "social outcast" thing, we knew it smelled fishy--it smacked too much of the Satanic Panic of the 80s & early 90s. Plus, we knew our kids--just because you have a kid who keeps to himself and writes Goth poetry doesn't mean he's going to strafe the school on day.

A few years ago, I read more about Columbine and that Klebold & Harris weren't your typical loner powderkegs as the media portrayed them. I wasn't surprised.

CSB: A friend's 15-yo son had always wanted a trench coat. She bought him a nice London Fog coat for Christmas before Columbine. That kid wore that coat every day, even when he should have worn something warmer. He didn't think anything of wearing it to school on a rainy day in April, the day after Columbine. Even though he'd been wearing it for months, that day he got dragged to the principal's office, the COPS were called, and he got carted to the police station for questioning.

Just giving everyone a small indication of how stupid everyone got because of this.

Sure, subby. Whatever you say. Moore was the creepy opportunist in that situation...

You do know the real story behind the "cold dead hands" quote, don't you?

Trolling...or just stupid?

Oh, that's the part you think is so egregious!? Sorry, I thought the NRA holding a "gubmint's gon' try to git yer guns" rally in Colorado days after the Columbine massacre was a little exploitative, crass and inconsiderate. I guess I'm the oversensitive one for not realizing that child massacre is the perfect time to sell your product. Strike while the iron's hot and the bodies are still slightly warm, amirite?

JackieRabbit:Callous: JackieRabbit: Clicks link. sees http://thegospelcoalition.org. Laughs. Because I've never heard any of these "myths".

Praise Jeebus!

Where the hell were you when it happened? I heard all of those myths more than once and some of them many, many times. Or did you just dismiss it all as wrong because you saw "gospel" in the url?

Getting the facts of what really happened and not listening to what stupid, emotional people thought or felt about what happened. That's where I was. If you think that some Christian blog is going to be objective, you're deluding yourself. They have an agenda and that's all they serve. Truth is irrelevant. Reason is futile.

That book demolishes a shiatload of Christian Columbine myths. Maybe you should read it.

I was in high school when that happened. The media portrayed those two guys as being outsiders and angry social misfits. That caused every outsider and angry social misfit in school at the time, like me, to be scrutinized. I had to spend quite a bit of time convincing teachers and counsellors that I wasn't a threat to anyone. If this article is true, and they weren't even like that, well that's all just bullshiat. Kids like me just wanted to be invisible and get through school without getting hassled or picked on. I didn't want to go on a shooting spree or blow anyone up.