Porsche 911

Comments

Regarding your questions #1 & #6, my 2006 911 is GT silver with black interior. I saw a silver with tan interior when I bought mine a couple of months ago. The're out there, but black on black has been very popular for awhile. I don't know why.

I believe PSM is standard on all 911's. Don't know if it was available on pre 997's. PASM is an option on the base 911 and standard on the S. Again, I'm talking 997's which I guess does not help you out a lot. The 997's started in 2005. The 996's went from 1997 to 2004 with the water cooled engine and the kidney shaped headlights. That web site Wikipedia will tell you more about the history of porsche than you would ever want to know.

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't see why people can't just handle their phone business once they are parked. I know a lot of very successful people who do it. Some don't even own cell phones.

Maybe in Alabama that is possible. There is no way that in California traffic, and with my lifestyle, I could EVER conveniently just get on and off the freeway at my desire, and then find a convenient place to park, in order to take an important call. It's just plain not realistic. Not even close. Not in today's world. Not just from a business standpoint, but even a personal standpoint. I've also got a wife and kids... and life happens spontaneously. I need to be in the loop and available to my family when it is necessary.

Now that said, I'm not one to yak on a phone while 'm driving. I don't like doing that. This isn't rocket science to me. I just need a quality functional hands-free system that will comply with the law, and give me the convenience that I need.

From what I have learned in the last few days, I believe that the TOOKI system is absolutely the best one out there. It makes no sense whatsover, IMO, to use the Porsche telephone components that require the use of a sim card inserted into the dash. That's just plain old-fashioned and stupidly over-priced. It requires that the sim card be removed from your phone and re-inserted into the car. That's ridiculous to take apart a phone to transfer the sim card back and forth every time getting in and out of the car. Also, the idea of a dedicated sim card for the car means a dedicated phone number which means an added number to the wireless account. That's also a total waste, because the car would end up with it's own phone number that is different from my normal number. I sure don't want THAT experience. Besides, an iPhone doesn't even have a removeable sim card.

So... Bluetooth is the answer. TOOKI looks to be the best because it fully integrates into the existing hardware, is a quality approach, and while it is a bit pricey, it is not absurdly expensive.

I was quoted about $1100, which is made up of about half parts and half labor.Supposedly, it is a fully-integrated quality approach. That's what I'm after.

In light of the new upcoming hands-free law, the idea of NOT having the capability in my car is too unrealistic and old-fashioned for me.

My other cars already have Bluetooth connection to my phone and it's so quick and easy to answer or place a call when necessary. A few seconds, and it's a done deal.

Simple. Quick. Convenient.

No... I'm not about to pull out of traffic and find a place to park to take a simple quick phone call.

I meant more like make your calls when you get where you are going. I see your point, but I personally don't want to be accessbile all the time - just a personality preference I suppose. What did you do back in the '80s? Or what did everybody else do for the first 100 years of driving without cellphones before then?

I'll give you my experience with adding these units in. We have used the Tooki system and fully integrated it into the PCM. The only thing that sticks out is a tiny microphone near the rearview camera.

If I recall correctly, parts and labor had run around $900. It is a great system. However, the only thing that I would bring up is, Who is installing it? We have had some pretty shoddy work done by aftermarket guys and they literally tear the wiring apart leaving a Porsche that sometimes electronically malfunctions. At the very least, try and see if your local Porsche dealership techs will do it and warranty it. It might be worth the extra $200 just to have that piece of mind. Our dealership does that now. We're just tired of the issues revolving around 3rd party installers.

On another note, the '09 911's are rumored to have the technology upgrade. This isn't official yet, but a little birdie tells me that it will be soon. Porsche is rumored to have finally broken down and included touch screen Nav, bluetotooth and Ipod auxiliary hookups with their new model (not to mention a host of other changes).

Maybe it is time for an upgrade? Incidentally, how is the 1 Series treating you?

When I was looking to buy a Porsche, I have found that some of the Porsche dealers were recommending Parrot Bluetooth devices, which appear to be pretty simple and inexpensive, yet they work with the car's audio equipment. I have solved my BT needs by having the BMW Assist, which comes as an option on BMWs.

But I wonder if going for new wouldn't have been better. Because Porsche has fantastic resale value , you paid 65K for a 2006. At 13,000 miles it is already more than halfway into needing four new tires for maybe $1500. What would a new 2008 have cost? What did you save?

Maybe the way to go on a 997 is to buy it new if you want only minimal options and to buy it used if you want lots of options, with the hope that you can pick up these "used" options cheaply. I for one don't believe the sales guys when they say that certain options "residualize well". Sure color is important, but is a used 997 worth $600 more after three years because it has the $1200 Boise option that "residualizes" at 50%?

My personal taste in a 997 would be to buy a new C2 couple with minimal options and just enjoy it. A C2 with just power seats and leather just might do it. The rest I don't see as desireable, some I see as tacky or even undesirable. The standard wheel/tire set up gives a better ride with less expensive replacement tires and less road noise than larger wheels and boots. The C4 option looks attractive for those of us in the Northeast, but how often are you really going to be driving a Porsche in ice and snow? I''d rather not decrease the luggage area, increase the weight and cost, and have larger, noisier boots in my left ear. Heated seats? Again, they sound good to anyone in New England, but really how often are you going to be out in the car on a 15 degree day? I can easily pass on the $1900 (!) "sport exhaust", no one on this board seems to think much of the Boise option, and do I really want a "sports chrono" on the dash when my $200 runner's chrono watch will do just fine? The color coded seat belts and Porsche crests on the seats are tacky. The rear wiper? Funny, no one ever talks about it. I suspect that it is a "good" thing to have and well worth the money.

Sounds like you got in down! I did it backwards-bought the car first and have been studying and learning about porsches ever since (about three months now). Test drove one on Saturday and went to the prosche dealer and bought a 911 on Sunday, and I'm the engineering type-usually analyze the heck out of everything before I buy. But, I got lucky, my 2006 911 coup has some options, three of which would have cost me over $10,000 if I had bought it new-GT Silver which is over $3000, full leather interior and 19" wheels. There is bose system with a lot of speakers (no big thing), power and heated seats (don't need the heat) with the driver side memory function (nice touch) and some other options. The car would have been pushing $85 to $90,000 if I bought it new(it is certified). You're right. You can't get your money out of those options. Those 19' wheels sure look good, but I would buy the S and get them as standard (if I were to buy new) along with PASM. But, man, I love that GT Silver. The shine is so deep. I was wondering if these custom colors that cost so much extra are a better grade of paint or better paint job than the regular colors? In other words, what are you paying extra for? Sorry about bragging so much about the car, but I never had anything like this in my life. I'm sure all this will wear off in a few months and I'll come down to earth. But, you're right, it's a lot of fun.

I'm enrolled in the Porsche high performance driving school on September 9th and 10th in Alabama. Besides wanting to know the limits of the car and how to regain control, if it gets away from me, I am hoping to learn more about the S. Maybe some day I'll be able to part with this car for another porsche, but not now.

Why aren't you people talking about the 2009's with the sequential-manual transmission and dual clutch? It sounds like a radical change from my 6 speed manual. Will it have those paddles on the back side of the steering wheel that I have heard about in race cars? I read the 2009's will be faster because of direct fuel injection.

Buylow, this SMG stuff with paddles in day to day use sures sounds a lot like what they already put on the 44K and up Caynenne for free.

You know, there is a "Poor Mans Watch Forum" (PMWF.com) for those of us that think that a $10,000 Rolex is a bad joke and in worse taste. Because you and I think a lot alike maybe we should start a Poor Man's Porsche Forum" for people who think that options like the $500 (Porsche factory cost of goods sold = two cents) wheel spacer deal or the $1900 "sports muffler" are the last straws for any rational Porsche buyer. (Didn't JC Whitney used to have a "muffler cut out kit" for $19 so when you went by your girlfriend's house you could really let it rip?)

Wikipedia states, "Gasoline direct injection or GDI is a variant of fuel injection employed in modern two and four stroke petrol engines. The gasoline in highly pressurized, and injected via a common rail fuel line directly into the combustion chamber of each cylinder, as opposed to multi-point fuel injection that happens in the intake tract, or cylinder port. GDI enables stratified charge combustion (ultra lean burn) for improved fuel efficiency and emission levels at low load. The article goes on to say, " The major advantages of a GDI engine are increased fuel efficiency and high power output."

One of the reasons we got a porsche 911 coup is that it is a awesome looking car, but yet understated. Don't get me wrong, it certainly makes a statement, but without the flash of a lamborghini,or the noise of a Ferrari. The lines of a porsche are so clean. Why mess it up with gimmicks? Of course, to make money with those high profit options.

Atlanta, June 6, 2008 - Porsche today disclosed photos and details for the next generation 911 model series. Four new 911 models go on sale in September in North America &#150; the 911 Carrera Coupe, 911 Carrera Cabriolet, 911 Carrera S Coupe, and 911 Carrera S Cabriolet. All offer a higher level of performance thanks to their all-new flat-six engines displacing 3.6 and 3.8 liters respectively. And for the first time in a Porsche sports car, engines utilize direct fuel injection (DFI) and can be coupled with the new optional 7-speed double-clutch gearbox Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), racing inspired technology and a Porsche first. The result of these new technologies allows Porsche to once again boost performance of the 911, yet improve fuel efficiency by up to 13 percent as measured in the European driving cycle.

Maximum output of the 911 Carrera with its 3.6-liter engine is up by 20 horsepower to 345. The 911 Carrera S with its 3.8-liter engine is equally impressive, up by 30 horsepower to 385. With this extra power, the Carrera S now offers a top speed of 188 mph.

The new generation 911 is available for the first time with the new Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), Porsche&#146;s double-clutch gearbox. The seven speed gearbox combines the driving comfort of an automatic transmission with the gearshift capacity of a sequential gearbox used in race cars. Since Porsche&#146;s double-clutch also boasts an automatic gearshift function, it replaces the former Porsche Tiptronic S automatic transmission on both the Carrera and Carrera S. PDK improves acceleration while reducing fuel consumption over the previous generation of Tiptronic S equipped 911s through optimized and adaptive gearshifts.

Porsche developed this gearshift principle for racing no less than 25 years ago. It features two parallel clutches to eliminate any interruption in power delivery and eliminates even the slightest break between gears. Porsche factory drivers benefiting from this technology were able to accelerate faster than their competitors and keep both hands on the wheel while shifting gears, thus avoiding even the slightest distraction. This pioneering achievement from Porsche&#146;s racing efforts now gives the new 911 Carrera and Carrera S even better performance. The Carrera equipped with PDK covers 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds and the Carrera S reaches the same speed in 4.3 which is 0.2 seconds faster than with a manual six-speed gearbox. The customer in search of optimum driving dynamics even has the option to combine PDK with Porsche&#146;s optional Sport Chrono Plus including Launch Control. The result is high-speed acceleration free of wheel spin from a standstill and a racing shift pattern to further boost performance. The Carrera equipped with the Sport Chrono Plus accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds while the Carrera S sprints to 60 mph in an outstanding 4.1.

Exterior enhancements of the new 911 stand out clearly through innovations in design and technology. The refined front bumper has larger air intakes which signal an increase in power and the newly designed dual-arm exterior mirrors give a larger field of vision to the rear of the car. LED daytime driving lights and bi-xenon headlights will be standard on all new models, as well as LED tail and brake lights. This gives the 911 an even more distinctive style and a truly unique look from the front and rear. As a further option, Porsche now also offers Dynamic Cornering Lights on all models. In Porsche fashion, these new refinements do not change the drag coefficient of the 911 as it stays at a remarkable 0.29.

The latest Porsche Communication Management system, PCM 3.0, which includes a new touchscreen feature, will be standard on all new 911s. Along with this upgraded system, options such as a hard disk drive navigation system, XM radio with XM NavTraffic capability, Bluetooth® connectivity, iPOD® port, USB port, and aux jack will be available.

2009 911 U.S. pricing starts at $75,600 for the Carrera Coupe, $86,200 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $96,800.

2009 911 Canadian pricing starts at $95,900 for the Carrera Coupe, $108,900 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $121,800.

Spring has finally arrived in New England. I am seeing lots of late model Corvettes, usually in primary colors like red or black, being driven on weekends, sometimes in groups of two or three cars. The guys behind the wheel seem to form an interesting demographic. They are usually between their mid-40's to their mid-60's and look like successful owners of blue collar companies, maybe HVAC contractors or the like. They seem beefy, as though they may have played some high school football before they went into the service and their companions are almost always well turned out blondes.

All in all they seem to be having a lot more fun than the often-uptight Boxter or 911 cab drivers I see. Wonder why?

I bought my 911 with the factory phone module. Not happy living with two numbers, replaced the factory phone module with the Bluetooth. Much better solution not having to do all the call forwarding getting in and out of the car.

i am surprised that Porsche is making so many options standard. As witnessed by the overwhelming catalogue of trying to order one of these cars, it is a breath of fresh air when an automaker actually makes a move for the perceived benefit of the customer. Now I recognize that some may not want the adaptive headlights or other systems that are now standard options but up until now Porsche has had a brilliant marketing strategy with essentially having so many different options that they could probably build a several 997s a day for a year and not have one be identical to the other. Some saw it as nickle and diming the customer while others embraced just the notion of individuality and getting a car EXACTLY how they wanted it.

I see it as a positive move in the customer's best interest but also cutting out about 50 pages of options from the novel entitled "Porsche Options Catalogue". However, I'm sure and know they saved probably 80-90% of their "nickle & diming" to keep their cash flow strong and their customer base happy and evergrowing. Now I just can't wait until they release the specs on the new turbo with this flat 6 instead of the tradition horizontally opposed 6 cylinder. Hmmmm,,,,,, can you imagine a twin turbo'd 8 cylinder lying beneath that tiny engine cover - I guess I can dream but I gladly pay the gas guzzler tax on that one. Maybe then I'll finally give up my tuned 996 turbo........or just add to the collection

"...they seem to be having a lot more fun (Corvette owners) than often-uptight Boxter or 911 cab drivers I see. I wonder why?" ...maybe because they're cheap to replace in the event of a crash? Your obsevations are interesting. What do you do for a living?

Heated seats? Again, they sound good to anyone in New England, but really how often are you going to be out in the car on a 15 degree day? I can easily pass on the $1900 (!) "sport exhaust", no one on this board seems to think much of the Boise option, and do I really want a "sports chrono" on the dash when my $200 runner's chrono watch will do just fine? The color coded seat belts and Porsche crests on the seats are tacky. The rear wiper? Funny, no one ever talks about it. I suspect that it is a "good" thing to have and well worth the money.

I respect your personal opinions, but just to give you another perspective:

Heated seats are worth every penny in my Cab. I won't hesitate to put the top down at anything over 45-50 in the early spring or late fall. But even 60 will feel cold without heated seats.

Bose is lousy. The base (non-Bose) stereo in my 1995 Nissan Maxima produces far superior sound to my "upgraded" Bose 14 speaker system in the 911. But I bought an in-stock car at a $10k discount, so I ate it.

Sport exhaust? Wouldn't have bought it, given the choice, but now that I have it, combined with the sport chrono, I'd be hard pressed not to order it. No "official" claims of performance increases, but it sure as hell feels quicker in combination with the sport chrono.

Sport-Chrono. This is a must have for anybody serious about performance. Forget the chrono part (and you overpaid for a $200 runners watch). The "sport" part, which when activated noticably increases throttle response, brake response and, combined with the sport exhaust, makes the car feel at least a couple tenths quicker. After many test drives of all models, I would consider putting the $900 +/- sport chrono on a base C2 before I would pay $10k more for a C2S without it.

Rear wiper - Now there's an opportunity to save bucks. It looks ugly and you have to be going pretty damn slow to have water sitting on your rear window. This past weekend, I managed to drive through a brief 10 minute spring rain at 50 mph with my top down and golf clubs across the back seats and I had no more than 5-6 drops of rain in the car, all from the sides, not the top. Maybe on a C4 in the snow belt, but I wouldn't consider one on a C2 coupe that isn't going to see snow.

Buylow, this SMG stuff with paddles in day to day use sures sounds a lot like what they already put on the 44K and up Caynenne for free.

Sorry to sound like I'm picking on you, but that statement is WAY off, on a couple of counts.

First, up until now, all Tiptronics were SLUSHBOX torque converter automatics. And, while Porsche's version of that crappy (IMHO) transmission design was better than most, you can't claim that it was anything less than offensive to someone who wants direct control and crisp performance.

Second, that crappy slushbox isn't "free". Insult was added to injury by having to pay $3k+ more for a slushbox than a 6 speed in a Cayenne. The base V6 model can be ordered with a 6 speed manual and the actual performance is damn near as good as a V8 Cayenne "S" automatic - with better fuel economy as a bonus. The new Cayenne GT-S comes with a 6-speed manual for $3k less than the slushbox version and (again, IMHO) is the Cayenne that most deserves the Porsche crest on the hood. More so than the Turbo.

Torque converter slushbox automatics ought to be banished from Porsche's line-up completely. And, hopefully, the newest 911 DSG transmissions will cause that to happen over the next few years. Make no mistake, I'm still a strong personal fan of the true 6-speed three pedal manual. And I think this "launch control" gimmickry is catering to the wrong crowd that still thinks stop light drag racing is the bomb. But at least with the latest dual clutch transmissions, they have put the torque converter where it belongs - on the unemployment line.

P.S. My dealer has taken back on trade a significant number of the 911 Turbo Tiptronics he has sold since it was introduced. Almost all for manual transmisison somethings. His take is that, paddle shifters, launch control and "it's faster" marketing did little to hide that the Tiptronic has more in common with a Buick than a Ferrari F1.

You bet. I thought the Porsche website was really awesome. Great introduction on the new features.

In regards to your questions:

1. 997 history? Nope, they are referring to this as Generation 2.

2. PDK is offered as an option. Approximately 50% of the vehicles we have coming in will be with the new dual clutch system. Price? There have been no releases on pricing yet. Speculation? Probably $4k.

3. PDK replacing manual? Absolutely not. It is replacing the current Tiptronic. You can run it in automatic mode if you would like or use the shifters on the steering wheel.

It's really an awesome system. I'm excited about that, the dynamic lighting, Direct Fuel Injection and the host of extras with technology. Finally we have bluetooth!

Habitat1, you are absolutely correct. My post about the new SMG paddles being the same as the paddles on my Cayenne was part tongue in cheek and partly a response to the marketing claims. I apologize.

Regarding stick shift Cayenne's, your comments are, again, correct. However, stick Cayennes have been very hard to find. Dealers tended not to order them. When I bought my Tip Cayenne, the experienced (he was over 40!) sales guy thought that given the Cayenne's weight, a Tip was more desireable. I didn't want to argue, have to special order a stiick shift, and miss out on my Section 179 income tax deduction for buying a "delivery vehcile with 6000 GVW". On my next Cayenne (yep, I''m going to get another one, independent of buying a 997) I will go for the stick. I'll have more fun than a 63 year old guy should have, and buy some emerging market bonds with the 3K I will save.

Interestingly, on some other European cars ( e.g., SAAB 9-5 and maybe some BMW's) , the default option is an automatic and if you really want to order a stick it is the same price as an auto! Does GM and Mr. Lutz really have to wonder why SAAB no longer has the sparkle and hard core owners it used to have?

Thanks for all your feedback here. I got distracted with my 135i posts, and missed some of your valuable posts... sorry.

Actually, I am going to consider trading my Carrera S Cab in for an '09 Coupe. It's just an idea at this point, so we'll see.

The 135i is an amazing car, but I'm already trading the 135i Coupe for a 135i Convertible. That's one reason I might get the '09 Carrera as a Coupe. Not sure yet. Mine has been nearly perfect , although the interior carbon fiber strip at the base of the windshield has warped... the dealer is going to replace it. Minor issue, that's for sure!

I don't think the 928 was ever really considered a likely 911 replacement. Front engine, 4 seat hatchback GT that was a comfortable highway cruiser but never came close to matching the visceral sports car feel or performance of the 911. Not only did their sales volume drop like a rock at the end of thier life, their resale value did too.

If I recall my Porsche history correctly, the 928 was indeed intended to replace the 911, as Porsche was anticipating problems in getting an aircooled motor to meet the pollution standards of the day. Do keep in mind that both the 928 and the 911 can be considered to be 2-door coupes with "2+2" seating, and particularly in its day, the sports car paradigm was that a V8 motor was preferred than any 6.

They underestimated their consumer's preference for the 911, and as a result, the 911 soldiered on (and eventually became water cooled) and the 928 died.

What probably didn't help the 928, particularly in resale value, is that there were some (cough!) interesting design elements to it - - my understanding is that part of the wiring harness under the dash was semi-visible to the passenger compartment, so in order to avoid making it be a distraction, they chose to make all of these wires be black. Needless to say, trying to trace one black wire out of a forest of black wires makes for a nightmare to track down an electrical gremlin.

There's been some on-again, off-again efforts to bring back a 928-esque model, the most recent one being the Panamerica 4 door coupe, IIRC.

The good news is that the introduction of the Cayenne is what pretty much prompted the 'rear engine aircooled' contingent to finally accept the 914 as a 'real' Porsche, despite its VW heritage.

The great thing about a Porsche 911 type is that if you buy it new or slightly used and take really good care of it, it will be running years---decades---after every Ferrari or Corvette or other "supercar" has either gone to the breaker or to the restoration shop for a resurrection.

I can vouch for this. Around 1992, I bought a 1985 911 for $19.5K. As per NADA claimed values, its now worth around $18K...its depreciated by a whopping $2K over 15 years.

A 911 may cost you $150 a month to keep happy, but a Ferrari will cost you $1.50 a mile, at least. And that's a number I have carefully researched.

Over the past 15 years, I've gone through a couple of sets of tires, repaired & updated the A/C from R-12 to R-134, replaced the sunroof gasket, replaced the 915 transmission synchros (and clutch, while it was open), plus other miscellany...all told, probably still under $10,000 in total maintenance costs. Adding in the above depreciation (but not counting gasoline or insurance), I'm still at less than $1000/year, although there are a couple of asthetic items that I have to decide if to drop the coin to take care of: shrink cracks in the vinyl dashboard ($3K labor), and the leather on the driver's seat is just about at its end of life.

But then again, what does one really expect for a 23 year old car? Well, just this past weekend, my wife asked if I might want to drive it from NJ to TN next summer. That should give you an idea of how solid its mechanicals are.

I think your assessment of value is somewhat optimistic given the interior deterioration, since used Porsche values are pegged very rigidly to cosmetics, but your assessment of durability is right on. Naturally one does wonder about all the electronics on the new cars as they age, but even here Porsche technician training, as well as the high level of skill of most independent shops, seems to indicate that these cars won't be sacrificed to incompetence, indifference or scarce parts like other "super" cars that are now ten years old. I don't think any performance car amortizes as well over the years as a Porsche 911.

If I recall my Porsche history correctly, the 928 was indeed intended to replace the 911, as Porsche was anticipating problems in getting an aircooled motor to meet the pollution standards of the day. Do keep in mind that both the 928 and the 911 can be considered to be 2-door coupes with "2+2" seating, and particularly in its day, the sports car paradigm was that a V8 motor was preferred than any 6.

The "problem" with the 928, if you want to call it that, was that it was relatively heavy, more luxurious, but not particularly nimble, and really never was perceived as a sports car. It was always a GT car. If it were around today, it might be viewed as competition for the BMW 650i/M6 or even the AM V8, but not the 911 or Ferrari 430.

According to my dealer, the 928 buyers were more inclined to be higher income versions of 924/944/968 buyers. But not someone who came in looking specifically at the 911 as a "sports car" purchase.

I think your assessment of value is somewhat optimistic given the interior deterioration,...

I agree, although my more generalized complaint is that IMO, NADA book values seem to always be overly optimistic.

In general, I figure that it would cost be around $5K to correctly restore the two current cosmetic shortcomings. As I alluded to, the killer on the dash is the huge amount of labor involved, as the dash can only be removed after the windshield has been popped out (hopefully without breaking it).

In general, the remedial fix used on most cars in this vintage has been to cover it up by throwing on a dashboard rug or skin. The skin is the better solution, but my dash is blue and as of the last time that I checked, only black skins are currently in production. The local independent Porsche shop has the availability of this part on their 'watch list' for me.

I don't think any performance car amortizes as well over the years as a Porsche 911.

Agreed, and this was my point. Even with my current cosmetic shortcomings, the absolute worst case is to claim that its worth literally zero, which works out for me to an average rate of depreciation of $100/month over my ownership timeline.