Closing the Deal

Last night I reluctantly agreed to join some friends for a few drinks, and somehow I ended up meeting "Mr. Right." One of my friends kept goading me into talking to random guys because she knows how much I want to be in a relationship, but I'm a textbook introvert with low self esteem. Anyway, in an attempt to get my friend to stop trying to get me to talk to some guy I wasn't really interested in, I pointed out a guy at the bar who was more my type aesthetically. My friend eventually encouraged me to go to the bar with her to get us some more drinks, and surprise surprise, she decided to order from a spot right next to "Mr. Right."

My friend initiated introductions and I apologized profusely as she tried to tell this guy how great I am. Fortunately, he was a good sport and an awkward first couple of minutes segued into him joining us at our table, where we talked until the bar started to close (a little over 3 hours). Our group then headed to another place to get a late night snack, and in brighter light he was even more handsome. I ended up driving the guy home and we exchanged numbers before hugging each other goodnight.

Here's the deal: I want to keep in touch with this guy and see where things might lead; however, I feel like I need to strike the right balance between being enthusiastic and playing it cool. I'm not exaggerating when I call him "Mr. Right"...he really does possess a lot of the attributes that I tend to be drawn to in terms of looks, personality, interests and goals. At the same time, I'm idealizing him and it'd be naive of me to act like me and him are destined to live happily ever after. I guess all I need are some suggestions on how to proceed from here. My goal is to build interest/momentum without coming across as too strong. I have the dating skills of a junior high schooler due to the sheltered life I lived up until 26. Now that I'm 31, I think it's time to start taking chances and quit playing it so safe (i.e., always being the pursued and never being the pursuer).

Advice?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 183

06/10/2013

I'm upping this for the OP given that he seems like a likeable guy who deserves decent advice and because I am also an introvert who has had some of the same issues.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 1

10/08/2012

Call him tomorrow and tell him how much you enjoyed meeting him and would like to see him again. Suggest a dinner date for the weekend.

If agrees, plan on just getting to know him better. You really won't know if he is Mr Right until you spend some more time with him.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 2

10/08/2012

IFHH.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 3

10/08/2012

Call him up. Ask him out. I'm pulling for you, OP. You sound really decent, remember how you might just be Mr. Right to him as well - you don't want to crush that by dismissing a great night as not so great.

Honesty. Not all at once, but honesty is such a great thing. I wouldn't be intimated by your backstory and most likely he won't be either. So you like him. It's such an endearing thing to hear someone say that they like you.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 4

10/08/2012

"Advice?"

Get to the point faster with your stories. They're too long and boring.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 5

10/08/2012

Whore!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 6

10/08/2012

Lay a deuce on his doorstep and scoot your ass down the sidewalk to mark your territory.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 7

10/08/2012

R1 here. I'm rooting for you. I finally found Mr. Reasonable Facsimile of Mr. Right a few months back but not in a manner as romantic as you did. I got purposely drunk to have the courage to ask him out. It's hard for introverts, but I hope that you follow R2's and R3's advice and have success.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 8

10/08/2012

Fer crissakes if you're so anxious get tickets to a play or a concert or something so it gives you an excuse to call and ask him out and that way it doesn't even have to sound too desperate. Make it sound like you had an extra ticket and after meeting him you thought he might want to go.

And if he says no... get over it.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 9

10/08/2012

Oops, I meant R2 and R4.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 10

10/08/2012

Best of luck, OP.

Even if you get shot down like Japanese Zero, just remember: "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."

You will have tried.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 11

10/08/2012

Don't get theater tickets or ask him out for a big dinner. You're nervous and want to make a good impression, OP, and that's understandable, but keep it light for right now. Everyone knows the "I just happen to have an extra ticket for X" is just a gambit. It's actually more flattering to be direct and a bit vulnerable and say you'd like to spend some time with him.

Ask if he wants to go for coffee instead. Your objective isn't to dazzle or flatter him, but to make him wish the coffee date had lasted longer, and inspire him to make it happen again.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 12

10/08/2012

Thanks for the advice everyone. The timing is a little off for me and this guy only because he's going on a trip for the next few weeks; therefore, we couldn't immediately make follow up plans. He made it a point of lamenting the flakiness of guys where he used to live, so I'm hoping he follows through and contacts me when he's back in town. In the meantime, I sent him a text saying I enjoyed meeting him and I hope to see him again...he replied back and reaffirmed that we'd be seeing each other again.

We'll see were this all goes. I really like the saying, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." I'm tired of bitching about being single while avoiding opportunities to meet nice guys.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 13

10/08/2012

You should rub one out every day he's gone and fashion him a homemade wreath from the tissues.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 14

10/08/2012

As a fellow introvert who has a hard time closing the deal, keep us updated, because I can definitely use some advice. Good luck!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 15

10/08/2012

Ditto what R15 said. I've met many 'Mr. Right for Me', but I've always been their 'Mr. Wrong'.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 16

10/08/2012

The tired old saw, "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" applies in your case, OP. You don't want to do anything that may jeopardize this, that, or the other, or interfere with follow-up plans to a trip he has on the books for weeks from now - in short, you don't want to risk anything that threatens some picture-perfect ideal that's unattainable anyway (so why bother?)

You want the mortgage and wedding rings before learning whether he chews with his mouth open and picks his teeth with a fork.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 17

10/08/2012

R17 is absolutely right. Catch him as he's leaving for work before the trip. Push him against his car. Unzip his pants. Suck that dick and swallow the gravy. Swallow - no snowballing. Wish him a safe trip. Then, follow through on R7's advice because he's probably very wise.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 18

10/08/2012

Don't think of him as "Mister Right"; think of him as "Mister Another-Date-Would-Be-Nice" and treat it as such. By presuming someone is "The ONE!" it becomes easy either to set unrealistic expectations or to self-sabotage.

Rather than wait by the phone until he returns, continue to keep your eyes open for Mister Another-Date-Would-Be-Nice.

And thank your friend for being ballsy.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 19

10/08/2012

You wicked, r14. But also very funny. I flagged your post for WW.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 20

10/08/2012

Kisses, OP.

Just remember your demeanor. If you keep in mind that you already know that in the future you're going to be together and that he just needs to catch up in his own time, your easy charm, patience and confidence will offer a natural path for him. I can tell it's right.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 21

10/08/2012

Good luck OP. Here's the thing, and I say this as someone who has not been lucky AT ALL in love... I'm a commitmentphobe, but here's the thing, you need to set the tone. It doesn't mean you need to chase him or stalk him or get caught up in does he like me/does he not, but if you like him, then you need to SET THE TONE. We are all so petrified of making contact, and it's ridiculous. We hide behind texts and phone messages and get caught up in all this stupid shit and in the meantime, people pass us by. Just be yourself, don't overthink it and don't play games. Good luck! We wanna see the ring when you get one!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 22

10/09/2012

OP here.

"Mr. Right" is back and town and he suggested we try to get together this weekend. We're meeting tomorrow afternoon to attend an event, but I'm as nervous as hell. At this point it's been a month since we saw each other and I'm not sure if we'll be reconnecting as potential friends...or if we're actually going out on a date. Regardless, I'm trying to be optimistic about the whole situation.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 23

11/09/2012

[quote]"Mr. Right" is back and town and he suggested we try to get together this weekend. We're meeting tomorrow afternoon to attend an event, but I'm as nervous as hell. At this point it's been a month since we saw each other and I'm not sure if we'll be reconnecting as potential friends...or if we're actually going out on a date. Regardless, I'm trying to be optimistic about the whole situation.

He's probably wondering the same thing, OP.

Good luck! I hope you have a nice time at the event. Remember, your goal isn't to knock him off his feet -- it's to make him have a nice time and think that another event with you could be even nicer.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 24

11/09/2012

I like you, OP. You're story sounds like mine, although I'm more an extrovert.

My story led to a 21 year long love affair.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 25

11/09/2012

Dear OP, I'm 50 and single again after 25 years. I totally identify with you. I've recently dated a few guys and really blew it by being overly enthusiastic about them. My advice to you is to play it cool, but DO touch him when the opportunity seems right. If you don't go home with each other on the next date, but the two of you had a good time, DO kiss him goodbye. Make it subtle but passionate. Reveal as little of yourself as possible. I'm done with "intellectual interview dating". This guy clearly likes you. Get physical asap. Let your tongues get together and do the talking. Good luck!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 26

11/09/2012

Was expecting a lot more snark here, but it turns out that this is a really sweet thread with lots of support. It's great to have a wing (wo)man like your friend.

[quote] By presuming someone is "The ONE!" it becomes easy either to set unrealistic expectations or to self-sabotage.

That one sentence nails it. You have little to lose at this point. Try to relax, ask a lot of questions and establish commonality.

[quote] I'm not sure if we'll be reconnecting as potential friends...or if we're actually going out on a date.

You have got to clarify this early. If you feel comfortable with him and have some of the same interests, there's nothing wrong with stating, "I hope this is a date because I'd really like to get to know you better."

At this point, I'd get him drunk and start putting on some major moves, but you seem too nice a guy for that.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 27

11/09/2012

Jeeeezuz, do you think we live to be 200 around here? He's moved on. Shoudda fucked him when you had the chance.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 28

11/09/2012

Keep us posted OP!

What kind of event is it? I see you outside with a glass of wine or champagne.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 29

11/09/2012

If you're a top, be a little needy. If you're a bottom, be a little standoffish.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 30

11/09/2012

R5 is correct.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 31

11/09/2012

end of story.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 32

11/10/2012

They may be rolling around in bed right now!!!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 33

11/10/2012

I hope they're fooling around and playing with each other!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 34

11/10/2012

Let's make up a story on what's happening with OP right now. !!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 35

11/10/2012

However it turns out for now, OP, remember...it won't last.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 36

11/10/2012

I can see OP and "Mr. Right" sharing a long piece of spaghetti like in "The Lady and the Tramp" right about now.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 37

11/10/2012

O.P. sounds so much like my friend; hot body, very smart, nice guy etc. Everybody sees it except for him. He misses the signals and will over think something he suspects could be a flirt. The other guy will assume that he isn't interested. i'm really hoping this goes well.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 38

11/10/2012

R26 marry me

by Love Out of Lust

reply 39

11/10/2012

Aw, R37. Cute :)

by Love Out of Lust

reply 40

11/10/2012

[quote]O.P. sounds so much like my friend; hot body, very smart, nice guy etc. Everybody sees it except for him.

That's what makes him BEAUTIFUL!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 41

11/10/2012

hope OP is giving a blumpkin right at this very moment!!!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 42

11/11/2012

I hope you had a great night, OP, and perhaps are waking up next to him cuddling. Just as good, or even better, would be for you two to have agreed to another date. It could be the start of a great relationship. Please report to us.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 43

11/11/2012

Tell us how it went, OP.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 44

11/11/2012

Tl;dr

by Love Out of Lust

reply 45

11/11/2012

Your loss R45. And in your case it means Too *lazy*; didn't read.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 46

11/11/2012

Thanks for all your support guys. The event that we attended turned out to be a Log Cabin gays for Romney event. After the event, he also shared that he was born a female, and still has not had surgery on the bottom half. What should I do fellas?

Thanks again for all your great advice.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 47

11/11/2012

I met my partner in similar circumstances, and it was worth it. Been together a few years and neither of us could be happier or more in love. I hope OP finds something similar, he sounds like a nice guy.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 48

11/11/2012

R47 is *not* me.

Anyway, yesterday went pretty well overall. I was able to confirm that he and I were officially on a date, and there was definitely a mutual attraction. Everything flowed so well and I'm just as attracted to him now as I was that night we first met, over a month ago. He was also receptive when I initiated some body contact over the course of the evening (shoulder rubbing, kissing his neck, playing with his hair)...which was pretty reassuring.

All of that said, we didn't have sex and thing's are pretty much destined to proceed slowly (if at all). Not only is he recovering from a bad breakup, but he's also trying to get acclimated to the area. I'm not so sure he needs someone clamoring to become his boyfriend on top of everything else he's going through; however, I do want to continue seeing him...as friends or potentially more.

Last night he floated the possibility of us hanging out again later on this evening, but nothing is set in stone just yet. I don't know. Both of us basically admitted that we tend to be overly cautious when it comes to relationships. I'm not 100% confident that me and this guy are a match made in heaven or anything, but I am going to try to move toward him instead of freaking out and running away.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 49

11/11/2012

Excellent, OP! It's better that it move slowly, including on the sexual front, for it to be serious and long lasting. I am an introvert myself, and the slow-moving, cautious relationships are the best. I'm happy for you. You sound like a great guy and so does he. I like the "shoulder rubbing, kissing his neck, playing with his hair". It shows he's receptive and likes the physicality of being with you. Congrats on the date.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 50

11/11/2012

Wonderful news, OP. You're doing this the right way.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 51

11/11/2012

Great to hear. Keep us posted 👍

by Love Out of Lust

reply 52

11/11/2012

but about that blumpkin??

by Love Out of Lust

reply 53

11/11/2012

"Last night I reluctantly agreed to join some friends for a few drinks"

You have no friends, everyone knows it. Nothing else to see here.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 54

11/11/2012

2012 is calling for you OP. Leave the 1950's behind

by Love Out of Lust

reply 55

11/11/2012

STFU R55

OP, how's it going?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 56

11/15/2012

Well??? 😳

by Love Out of Lust

reply 57

11/16/2012

Well, although I was hoping to meet up with "Mr. Right" on Sunday evening, his sister didn't feel like going anywhere. I subtly floated the idea of us going to see a late night movie, but as soon as I asked if he was into James Bond films he replied that he couldn't wait to see "Skyfall" over Thanksgiving. I called myself reading between the lines and convinced myself that he was preemptively trying to get out of hanging out again; however, he suggested that we get together Thursday instead.

I'm taking a grad school course that met every evening this week, so I was skeptical about actually following through. However, we indeed went out on Thursday and the second "date" was just as awesome as the first. We met at a local artsy bar/cafe and talked about our respective adventures, thoughts, and feelings (regarding everything under the sun). The place were were at closed at midnight, but we stayed and talked until management shut the lights out an hour later!

Here's the catch: We've now ended 3 nights together, and each time he leans in for a big hug before we part ways. I definitely feel he's about as shy as I am when it comes to making the first move, but with all the flirting and mutual interest conveyed...I'm not sure why we haven't kissed yet.

Ultimately, the next few days are a test of sorts. I'm in class all day today (currently ignoring the classroom discussion to update those of you have been so supportive)...but at some point he promised to text me if he wants to hang out this weekend. I honestly hope to hear from this guy; however, if I don't, I know I'll be devastated--before picking up and getting on with life. Whatever the case may be, I'm optimistic about hearing from him.

And if I do, the night *will* end with a kiss (if he's up for that, of course!).

by Love Out of Lust

reply 58

11/17/2012

OP, Thanks for the update!

Sounds as though he really likes you and wants to take things slow. That's a good thing, IMO. I was the same way with my partner and we've been together 10 years. Both of us were a bit shy about making the first move, yet we were crazy about one another. We laugh about it now.

Next time, touch his hair or face and lean in to kiss him. Just go for it!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 59

11/17/2012

He is getting over a bad break up? Dont bet too invested..i got out of a bad relationship a year ago and soon after dated around and fucked over a lot of nice guys. Basically I gave out a lot of signs I was interested but was really just bored and didn't like being single. One guy who worked in the news business floated the idea of me moving with him when he relocated for a bigger job, I friend zoned him hard and now he hates me. Another still sends me texts everyday asking how my day is although I havent responded in months. Someone in a vulnerable time in their life may not have real genuine interest you.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 60

11/17/2012

It's fifty fifty on being the rebound guy. Sometimes it's no problem, sometimes you're just the terminal for a connecting flight. Be natural with him, OP, but also be ready for a big disappointment IF it happens. Coming out of the major relationship is not ideal.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 61

11/17/2012

You might begin by not thinking in terms of "closing the deal." And I'm speaking as someone who in many ways is a lot like you in these situations, OP. The fact is this guys seems great, and may be great, but you really don't know who he is yet and it is best not to let your enthusiasm go completely to your head.

Enjoy the fact you've just met someone really interesting. It's a high no doubt. But put it in perspective and try to relax and enjoy it without it getting too consuming.

I know, easier said than done; but it is really important for you to keep your wits about you and not get overboard. You will seem - you wll be - more interesting, together, self-sufficient and happy with yourself if you stay calm - with benefits for your own self-esteem as well as for this potential new connection - maybe even potential relationship - with this guy.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 62

11/17/2012

R60 sounds like Brandon.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 63

11/17/2012

This thread is so green it's making me ill. Please tell me it's largely inhabited by a bunch of fraus pretending to be gay men.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 64

11/17/2012

I really appreciate the frank advice as much as the best wishes. I know I might come across as a bit naive, but the truth is, I'm just not as experienced as a guy my age should be (at least when it comes to dating and stuff).

Anyway, I've been hoping he'd call or text; however, it's now past 8 and it's doubtful I'll hear anything at this point. In the meantime, I have some homework to finish up, as well as some laundry to put away. Oddly enough, "He's Just Not That Into You" is playing on E! As much as I'd rather be watching "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore" (currently playing on TCM), I'm watching/listening a movie I've avoided like the plague because it looked so unbelievably stupid...all because I feel like I need advice wherever I can get it :(

by Love Out of Lust

reply 65

11/17/2012

I love the fact you're watching "He's Just Not That Into You" for advice. Since the way you write is rather good (I searched this string for all your "updates") I have some advice for you.

You are a sensitive person with little personal dating experience but enough intelligence/humor to keep Mr. Right around so far.

No matter how this scenario eventually plays out, my suggestion is to take what you've learned here (I mean with "him," not "here") and use it to reinforce your self-confidence.

I was also an introvert, the kind people pass by and say "Smile!" (the accent being on "pass by"). So I came up with a line. I'm not going to tell you what it is, no. 1 because it's lame, and no. 2 because you need to find one of your own. Once I had my line (and remember "Hi" is considered an opening line), I put myself in a cocktail setting and began working my way through the boys.

I am not an unattractive person, but I'm no Channing Tatum, and I scored 9 out of 10 times. I realized why: Everyone else was just as shy as I was! Only they had looking cooler about it down better than I did.

Good luck OP. If not with this one, then with the next.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 66

11/17/2012

R60, you sound like kind of an ass. Stop dicking nice guys around while working out your break-up trauma.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 67

11/17/2012

R66 is right. Great advice.

It's when I read threads like this, that I wish we could all hang out for cocktails. Seriously.

I know, I know.. MARY!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 68

11/17/2012

I agree with R63 and R67.

At any rate R60 sounds like a fucking psychopath. I think it's Brandon too.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 69

11/17/2012

Wow. I'm also sort of behaving like r60, after an end to a very LTR. I want to be with someone, but don't want to commit. I've been rejected after making advances on two guys, and scored with two others. By "scored" I mean having a great time with fantastic men, with the prospect of future dates. I am also shy and am learning how to be forward and take the lead. Rejection is part of the deal. But if you don't try, you don't get. At my age, dating is much easier because I am more secure with myself and know what I want. Unfortunately, I'm not as cute as I was back when I got partnered.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 70

11/17/2012

[quote]Wow. I'm also sort of behaving like [R60], after an end to a very LTR.

I really doubt that. I can't see you "fucking over" nice guys and enjoying it. Based on your other posts, you are a mature, sane, nice guy. Not a psycho like R60.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 71

11/17/2012

Who said I was enjoying it r71? I was fucked up on the brain after my last relationship and wanted companionship but was scared of relationships. In fairness to myself most of the guys I let know extremely early it would only be a friendship type thing. Like the guy in the news business, I went on two dates with him and did make out with him but it never came to sex and after the second date I told him I wasnt ready for a relationship yet butI did want friendship. He was the one who kept pressuring me for it, when I continually shot him down he got pissed off. Another guy was the same way...one guy was merely a fuck buddy but imagined it was something more. Oh well. I was a bit callous with some but some 'nice guys' think harmless flirting or a kiss goodnight means its a full fledged relationship. I havent even been hanging around fellow gay men lately, besides the ones Ive been friends with for years and dont get it twisted.

Who the fuck is Brandon?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 72

11/18/2012

I admire OP but couldn`t handle it. No restraint I guess.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 73

11/18/2012

UPDATE PLEASE!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 74

11/21/2012

The day after I last posted (last Saturday), I was sitting in class and at about 10:00 AM, I decided to go ahead and text him. He texted me back at about 12:30 PM, but I didn't respond until 3:00 PM--so as not to appear as desperate as I was acting. After some small talk I suggested we hang out, but he said he had planned on going to the mall and doing some drawing; therefore, he recommended he give me a call at 6:00 PM. One thing I'll give him credit for: This guy is good about keeping his word. He called me at 5:45 PM and we decided to meet downtown (where I had gone to do some writing at a Starbucks while waiting for him to call).

Anyway, the two of us went to see "Holy Motors," which gave us a heck of a lot to talk about during dinner, and then we made our way back to his apartment since everything seems to close early on Sundays! He's living with his sister temporarily, so we stood outside for a few minutes talking before parting ways. Right or wrong, I admitted to the guy that I know he's trying to get situated in a new town, and he's trying to get over a bad breakup, but I really like him and I hope we can continue to see each other. He was nice and everything...think he responded with, "I really like you too and I'm curious to see where this goes..."

However, he reiterated his desire to get situated and kind of spend a little more time getting over his breakup. Sometimes I feel like the whole "previous breakup" excuse is one of the weakest BS lines a guy can use, but he seems pretty sincere I guess. I don't know...personally, if I were really interested in someone, I wouldn't hesitate to move on from the previous relationship; that's just me though.

So here's where things stand today: I'm at the library working on a paper, and I've decided to hold off on texting him until I get it turned in. Later, I'll be going to a museum exhibit by myself and hopefully meeting up with a (straight female) friend I haven't seen in a while. Now even though I don't plan on seeing this guy today, I would like to invite him to go hiking tomorrow afternoon, but there's a chance his parents are still in town and he's unavailable.

Overall, I'm just plain frustrated. It seems like despite all the kind comments I get about my looks, intelligence, career success, compassion, humor, etc., I'm always scrounging for crumbs. It's frustrating because I could easily be out there getting laid; however, I'm one of those losers who wants to get married and raise a family. I've never been good at playing the field and I find the eternal chase to be more trouble than it's worth :(

by Love Out of Lust

reply 75

11/24/2012

OP he said he really likes you too and wants to see where it goes. So what's the problem?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 76

11/24/2012

The reason I'm skeptical is because I'm the one who tends to contact him to hang out (he admitted that he's bad about reaching out to friends to do things). I'm the one that was touchy-feely the first night we hung out, and he said "Thanks" when I apologized if I made him uncomfortable (as opposed to "Oh, it was no problem!"). History has proven that when a guy says he likes me, but he's not ready to be in a relationship, it'll only be a matter of time before he's either freaking out on me or telling me about some great guy he recently met. Not sure why I'm so impatient...I think it has to do with the fact that I tend to avoid conflict and I'm worried I'll cut off all ties before getting a true assessment of where things stand with this guy.

Still, am I being unrealistic by pointing out the fact that we tend to make exceptions for people we're truly interested in? If we've had 3 dates and they've all gone well, I'm not sure where the hesitancy comes from. Each night has ended with a big hug, but no kiss or any other true form of affection. I felt like me and this guy had a breakthrough of sorts on Thanksgiving because he actually used my name when wishing me a Happy Thanksgiving (usually it's "man," "Pikachu" (inside joke)).

Just to highlight how humiliating this all is, on Thanksgiving Day my sister invited her gorgeous boyfriend to dinner. They fight and break up all the time, yet he comes crawling back (just like her gorgeous ex-husband before him). Yet I'm nowhere near as volatile and I'm continually challenged.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 77

11/24/2012

Why are you dating just one person? Why does your life depend so much on this guy? Sounds mostly like you need to work on your relationship with yourself. This guy is inconsequential to that.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 78

11/24/2012

Hmmm. It sounds like the sexual energy needs to be amped up. You guys are acting like middle-aged matrons dropping each other off after canasta.

Even though it's not my name, I'm going to be Frank with you. It's just not happening honey. He is fucking someone else on the side and making up for it by toying with you because he feels like he shouldn't be such a whore.

You either take matters into your own hands and go in for a kiss the next time you meet, or give up on this guy. He's trying to move you into the friend zone and you'll end up feeling even more foolish.

But it sounds like you know this already.

I've been there and I made a big fool out of myself and got my heart broke under similar circumstances. When I look back, I realize I had invented this whole romance in my head without any confirmation at all that he felt the same.

I also went on to have several relationships filled with love and romance. So, there's that I guess.

Good luck OP. People like "bad boys" but marry nice guys, most of the time. If you can somehow combine the two in the personna, you increase your chances.

As for your sister, she probably knows how to use her fingers if you know what I mean.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 79

11/24/2012

R78, you're 100% correct, but I'm emotionally immature when it comes to dating. To make matters worse, Wednesday I was all ready to go to a local gay bar's trivia night with some friends, but they ended up flaking out at the last minute. I'm not the kind of guy who can go to a bar alone, so I ended up going to a movie...pissed off. This is just one of several times that plans with friends have fallen through...plans that would've resulted in me being in an environment to meet other guys.

I know there's the Internet, but I'm tired of settling for Craigslist and OKCupid, which have become overrun with flakes.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 80

11/24/2012

Something tells me that the impatience you describe in r77 is translating as a needy/clingy vibe and this guy is picking up on it.

Just hang out and enjoy his company. Try not to think about what 'history has proven'. BTW history proves nothing as far as this guy is concerned. Don't compare yourself to your sister and get the 'why me' crap all tangled up in your head. You sound like you're unconsciously handing the guy a lot of YOUR baggage from the past.

If you're attracted to him, it's time to make a move or at least bring it up somehow in discussion. Maybe he's HIV+ or he has herpes. Would this change things for you? Maybe that's what he's worried about.

Good luck; it still sounds promising.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 81

11/24/2012

OP, you are young and inexperienced (and you already know that).

In no way is "just broken up from a relationship" a BS excuse -- assuming that there really was a relationship and he's not lying.

It takes time to breathe again after a relationship ends and is often traumatic.

My advice would be to back off for a while and see if he calls you to initiate something. Meanwhile, continue trying to meet other "options". Expect rejections and creeps. Like Grandma said "you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet a prince".

Oh, and DO go to that gay bar alone.

All of this is hard and frustrating to do at first when you're young, but experience is how self-confidence grows, and that's what you need now more than a boyfriend. If you seek to validate yourself by others' approval, you're in for trrrouble.

All of this is so easy for me to say at age 50 -- having already been through it! I was such a love-sick basket case while in college.

The main regret I have is that I allowed my obsession to be in love affect my grades.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 82

11/24/2012

What R82 said. 😍

by Love Out of Lust

reply 83

11/24/2012

OP, it's very easy to say, "I'm not the kind of guy who can go to a bar alone." However true that is, it might be a bit comfortable. Convenient. Why not go against your natural inclination and actually try going to a bar alone, just to see what happens? Barring around with friends is counter-productive in any case, because the insulation of a group (or even a single friend) discourages guys from making contact. If worse comes to worst, your night at a bar will simply be a quiet time of nothing doing. But something nice might happen.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 84

11/24/2012

Ugh, you guys are offering some great advice, but a wrench has already been thrown into the situation. I went to go check out an art exhibit downtown and afterward, I was going to go to a nearby gay bar for a drink. However, a friend of mine (who I had asked to go to dinner earlier) finally got back to me and said we should plan on having dinner tonight. That meant I had to take the train back home and get ready to meet in about an hour...so no gay bar by myself.

Meanwhile, "the guy" and I are meeting up tomorrow to go hiking. Yes, I contacted him, but he said he was up for it (even when I gave him an out...due to the fact that it'll be kind of cold). Based on some of the comments people have made, it really concerns me to know that I might be pushing too hard or coming across as stalkerish. I'm going to try my best to objectively assess his interest--if that's even possible--and also consider my other options.

I think part of my anxiety has to do with the fact that this year alone I found out a guy who dumped me in college is married and raising a baby with his partner, the love of my life is in a domestic partnership with the guy he started dating after breaking up with me, and the last guy I dated is seeing a well-connected/probably rich bigwig in the arts community where we live. I feel like chopped liver at this point...not that any of them were ever filet mignon.

You have a hiking date; sounds like fun. Maybe it will be so cold you'll both have to jump under a blanket when you get home.

Good luck! and stop being so negative!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 86

11/24/2012

You're not oversharing, OP. It's fine. But you need to really, really relax and quit making the proverbial mountain out of molehills. I firmly believe to LISTEN to what a person says, in any form of relationship. Most people are accidentally truthful. My ex best friend used to lament to me all the time that she had a bad habit of dropping best friends. It caused her great duress and was something she wanted to change about herself. Ten years later, I got dropped. My last boyfriend jokingly told me, on our second date, he only dates people for six months or two years. He dumped me at our two year mark. Point in all that, is the guy has told you he is wary of getting too close after a presumably bad breakup. Believe him. Don't over analyze. Enjoy him for what he CAN offer, not what you want him to offer. And if what he can offer to you isn't what you want/need, then move on.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 87

11/24/2012

It's positive if he's willing to meet with you, but be sure it's just a friendship so you don't end up getting a broken heart out of the deal.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 88

11/24/2012

I love the OP, because he reminds me of myself.

OP, I strongly agree with the posters telling you to keep your options open, and create a bit of space. This guy MAY come around to you, but not from you steamrolling him.

The only way YOU are going to have the ease and peace to continue this project with an open heart is to keep your heart OPEN to other things, other guys, and to yourself.

When I've been in a solid relationship, it always started with a bit of give and take with the other guy, but at a point very soon in the dating, we were all over each other physically, and not holding back. Men are sexual creatures, and gay men bond with their dicks just as much as their minds. Hearts come last.

When someone is into you, it is obvious. What we want is someone who is into us, who actually is taking the time to also get to know us, and not projecting a lifetime of desires onto us.

This is what it sounds like you are doing to this guy, just a bit. Back it up, or you will indeed scare him off. But don't back it up with attitude.

As the saying goes, you can't get blood from a stone.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 89

11/24/2012

[quote]I love the OP

But do you love Robin?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 90

11/24/2012

OP, hope your hiking day is going well!

😍

by Love Out of Lust

reply 91

11/25/2012

Hey, R91 et al.:

The hike went well (great conversation, beautiful views), and the dinner that followed was just as nice. I guess the only thing I struggle with--based on some of the insights offered here, as well as topics discussed with the guy I've been "seeing"--is the fact that I'm finding it hard to simply be friends with someone I'd rather be dating (officially). We're compatible on so many levels, yet I'm starting to feel like there's a damn good chance that I'm just not his type. Sure, tonight ended as every other night has, with a big hug and a "thanks for a great time"; however, there's no point in continuing to delude myself. He's into graphic novels, and I brought a few of my favorites with me tonight, so I was kind of hopeful when he asked to borrow one before he got out of my car. It means he plans on seeing me again and I'm definitely cool with that.

Still, although we talked openly and honestly about hypothetical dating topics (such as the type of guys he's into and his views on relationships), there was nothing said that indicated I'd ever be a part of his future. It was actually as if my earlier admissions of attraction had never even happened...tonight I was just another friend who he was pouring his heart out to. The thing that really convinced me that I'm barking up the wrong tree is when he made a comment about being less inclined to limit his dating options now that he's older/more mature.

I know I'm supposed to be grateful with the crumbs being thrown my way, and I appreciate the advice to explore other options, but it's just hard continuing the search when the one you want is right in front of your face. He thanked me for a fun evening and I'm sure we'll see each other again; however, it's pretty clear based on his comments--and some of the advice I've received here--that I shouldn't bother getting a forthright answer out of him. Seems like being strung along is nothing to be concerned about, so asking him point blank if "we" have a chance is a worthless act of desperation.

Oh well. Guess I'll just continue the friendship and be exceedingly supportive when he introduces me to his new boyfriend a month from now.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 92

11/25/2012

Sorry OP. you sound ok but it must be a disappointment.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 93

11/25/2012

OP, call him, tell him how much you enjoyed meeting him, and tell him you were wondering if he'd like to get together again, etc. vut think of something to do that's more unconventional, more interesting then going to dinner. Maybe going to a farmer's market or to a play or a museum, or something different. Even bowling, the mall, then stop for dinner. Just do something. You have interests.I know you do more than just hang out at bars with friends. Don't you?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 94

11/25/2012

Dump it OP.

Next time go for sex on the first date.

Sorry, that's just the way it works.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 95

11/25/2012

Move on, OP--keep his number in your phone and send him a text in a week or two. See if he initiates contact with you in the meantime.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 96

11/25/2012

R94, in the past few weeks me and this guy have gone to an arts & crafts fair, met up for a movie, gone to dinner 4 times, and gone hiking. I don't think there's been a lack of variety in our activities....

And I'm certainly not going to call him, since our communication has been strictly via text up to this point (although while typing this I got a notice that he commented on my Facebook page...a first!).

I think I better just listen to R96 and quit getting so bent out of shape.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 97

11/25/2012

I hope you eventually snag him, OP. What does the guy look like? Does he resemble a celebrity?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 98

11/25/2012

Yup, definitely time to move on. You tried, OP. Nothing you can do about it. Instead of getting down on yourself and playing the "woe-is-me" melody, try and pat yourself on the back. You got out of your comfort zone and put yourself out there. Consider it a test that you passed. With flying colors. Next time, when you meet someone you might like, you'll have the confidence and the muscle memory to ask him out.

Well done, OP!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 99

11/25/2012

R99 has the right attitude.

also, [quote]asking him point blank if "we" have a chance is a worthless act of desperation.

Agreed.

Hugs to the OP. This is my favorite thread now.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 100

11/25/2012

OP, you are a man, not a woman. You need some kind of sexual contact on a first date. Not fucking necessarily - A blowjob, a handjob, frottage... lots of things can happen. Even just lots of good kissing and touching.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 101

11/25/2012

Oh, Christ, this thread bored me to sleep every time the OP started yammering again. So much detail. Who gives a shit about his sister? Not me--not unless she's that lesbian with the girlfriend possessed by Pazuzu. Now THAT was a great thread!

So, listen OP--if you STILL haven't had sex with the guy. . .he's just not that into you.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 102

11/25/2012

r99 is right. Sometimes it ends up being a numbers game. This guy isn't the one and the next guy may not be either but if you don't let it make you bitter and you keep yourself open and happy somebody will be.

Maybe this guy will end up as a friend once you've moved on. Take some time off from him until you're ok with that or better yet until you can tell him about your date you just went on with someone else.

This guy resembles Matthew Goode...is it any wonder why I've allowed myself to fall so hard for a relative stranger?

Anyway, he's kind of an atypical gay guy in that he honestly isn't the one-night-stand type, so I was never expecting to get laid after the first date (and trust me, I would've been ready, willing, and able as soon as he gave the cue).

In some ways it's pretty clear that he's warming up to me because tonight alone he's initiated contact via text and Facebook (which is rare)...and like I said, he borrowed a graphic novel and he doesn't seem like the type who would borrow something without returning it. The only catch is, unless I confirm whether or not there's a possibility of us dating (WHICH I WON'T DO!!!), I feel like I'm heading deeper into "just friends" territory.

One thing R101 said that really resonates is that I'm a man and not a woman...I'm not used to having to beg and plead to get laid. But make no mistake, having sex with this guy would merely be the icing on the cake. I genuinely like and respect him for so many other reasons, like his intelligence, creativity, compassion, and independence.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 105

11/25/2012

I love 102's response.

And Jesus Christ almighty, OP IS a woman.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 106

11/25/2012

[quote] One thing [R101] said that really resonates is that I'm a man and not a woman...I'm not used to having to beg and plead to get laid. But make no mistake, having sex with this guy would merely be the icing on the cake. I genuinely like and respect him for so many other reasons, like his intelligence, creativity, compassion, and independence

Sorry but I think he's a nutcase. Been there, and they can be quite attractive and intelligent, but more into anything other than the sexual side? Sorry no, not a good idea. Be careful, OP.

Men get together with other men for one reason, and then maybe hope something else might develop. You were ready, he was not. Why? If you cannot indulge in the lust (that could become love) of a possible relationship, something is wrong.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 107

11/25/2012

[quote] And Jesus Christ almighty, OP IS a woman.

No R106, not according to the post at R105

by Love Out of Lust

reply 108

11/25/2012

OP, he can't be 'the one' if he's not attracted to you. There's a vast difference when you're in a longterm relationship with someone who was equally into you. If it's not mututal, it's just a crush.

Stop overanalysing it. You don't say 'he texted and then I waited a few hours to get back to him.' It's all 'he called at 12:30, and I waited till 3:00 ... ' If he's not responding by now, he's not interested. But if you like him so much, you'll want him in your life as a friend.

One more thing - he's already told you who he is but you haven't listened. If this becomes a permanent relationship in your life, he'll hardly ever call or contact you. You'll overinterpret every little scrap he sends your way. You'll make all the effort. Do you want that?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 109

11/25/2012

^bingo

by Love Out of Lust

reply 110

11/25/2012

OP you've been very specific about all your dates with him. Does he read DL? If you have so many things in common, this could be one of them...

Just saying.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 111

11/26/2012

I said a similar thing upthread R109. So, so, so many people don't listen to what someone says to them when they first meet. People reveal themselves (unless they're purposely manipulating you) in what they say and certainly in what they do. I have learned to listen; maybe the OP will now too...

by Love Out of Lust

reply 112

11/26/2012

Over the past few days, one simple phrase has been replaying itself in my mind: "When someone takes the time to tell you who they are, LISTEN."

I'm actually pretty embarrassed about the way I've been behaving over the past few months. You all have offered some really great advice, but I was inclined to ignore it because all I could think about was the possibility of winning over "Mr. Right." But the more I've thought about it, "Mr. Right" isn't the perfect guy I've seemed to create in my mind, and I need to listen when he takes the opportunity to tell me who he is.

The gorgeous artist who is a fun activity partner and dinner date is actually an unemployed pothead who seems rather ambivalent about a relationship...at least with me! He's already told me three separate times--explicitly and implicitly--that he's not looking for a relationship, yet I honestly believed a charm offensive would wear him down over time. Then there's the fact that I'm the one who always reaches out to him to do things. Initially, I justified my behavior by telling myself that I'm too shy and reserved, so it's good to do the "chasing" for once; however, anyone with a hint of self awareness can tell when they're putting in way more effort than the other party. The last time I've heard from the subject of all this venting was Sunday evening. Since then, he hasn't tried to contact me and I don't think it'd be a good idea to contact him.

Starting next week, I'll be out of town for a few weeks, and that'll effectively kill any of the imagined momentum I thought we established over the past month. However, if he wants to remain friends, he knows where to find me. In the meantime, I've got some work to do in terms of restoring some order to my life.

The fact is, I'm smart, successful, funny, well-liked, and according to some, handsome. I'm only a few classes away from finishing my graduate degree, and today I found out that I was picked up for a selective 4-week course (in-residence) that will better prepare me for a promotion within the next year. I don't need an unmotivated pothead in my life, and yet I was willing to crawl on broken glass to get this guy to choose me!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 113

11/29/2012

Good for you, OP. It always takes longer to come to logical conclusions when we're in the heat of emotion. So, though many in this thread could easily see the forest for the trees, we weren't emotionally invested. Good on you for figuring it out after only a few months instead of fucking years!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 114

11/29/2012

OP, this is my first time reading this thread, and it feels a little like I'm reading what I would have written myself about 12 years ago. I've been on both ends of the stick, and I'm sorry, but as others have already told you, he's just not that into you, and even if he was, I'd recommend steering clear regardless. I would've given up as soon as I figured out he was an unemployed pothead; that shit NEVER ends well. Ditto trying to date someone recently out of a relationship, and contrary to what you said upthread, it most definitely DOES take most guys a lot of time to get over something serious (I've been there, too).

Speaking from the "other end," I've met a number of guys over the years who were definitely into me and acting very much like you are now, although it's only in hindsight that I've realized just how MUCH they were into me and acting, well, basically pretty crazy. Overeager in the extreme ... prone to overreaction, overt or not, if I didn't return a call or e-mail promptly (in their view within an hour or so) ... dropping hints left and right about how they're "a relationship kind of guy" ... telling me they were amazed at just how much we had in common with each other, etc. You get the idea.

I'll say this and say it once: regardless of how good a match you might seem on paper, or how many hours and hours your conversations last, or how many things you have in common, or all the reasons why you SHOULD end up together ... the fact of the matter is that IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO "FORCE" CHEMISTRY, and without chemistry you can't have a romantic relationship. You can be friends, sure, but in my experience that never works, either, because one side always carries a touch for the other (even if they don't admit it) and gets irrationally upset when the other *dares* to, I don't know, actually meet, date and partner up with other men. In fact, I'm not friends with *anyone* I once dated where there was only a one-sided romantic interest (though I'm still friends with nearly everyone I've ever dated seriously). I've also never had a lasting relationship with anyone I've met in a bar, incidentally.

Anyway, none of us are going to be able to convince you to stop acting like a puppy dog when it comes to romance; you'll have to do that on your own. In the interim, at least *try* to stop beating yourself up for a) not having a life partner at the ancient age of 31, b) "falling all over yourself" trying to get an unemployed pothead to fall for you, c) failing to know (yet) what the dividing line between "just friends" and "more than that" *really* is (btw you crossed the "just friends" border, permanently, after the third date, by my estimation), or d) not being into casual sex or fuckbuddies or FWB. Nothing is WRONG with you except for the fact that you're simply trying too hard.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 115

11/29/2012

Pothead is a relative term. And lots of good people are unemployed these days (at least in NY). But still.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 116

11/30/2012

I think OP feels rejected, and is resorting to name calling the man who he thought was "Mr. Right".

OP, I think the lesson here is to not look at anyone as Mr. Right in the first place. Just date guys, and find your bliss somewhere. Many times the magic of meeting someone special is all in our heads. It's a fun place to go, but it's not reality. Get to know the next guy a little better before putting him on a pedestal.

And smoke some pot...it might make you a bit less judgey.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 117

11/30/2012

In general, express interest OP, but let them chase you, too. Avoid potheads and people into graphic novels. And as others said, stop comparing yourself to others. They don't really have it that great.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 118

11/30/2012

and get your comic books back.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 119

11/30/2012

OP displays a tinge of bitterness and self-pity when he is describing others (his sister) who have relationships, something he feels he is entitled to also have. He has now resorted to calling his crush an unemployed potsmoker because he's not picking up an "interested" vibe from him (which was evident from the firsts post).

Time for Step Two: Do what I do. Don't get bitter. Get revenge. Find someone immediately. (Rent them if you have to...'the boyfriend experience.') Throw your "relationship" in this man's face. Let him see you two snuggling over hot chocolate during the holidays. Then have him put on a show where you break up with him and he gets all emotional in a public place.

Just a tinge of bitterness? One correction: I don't feel entitled to be in a relationship, but it just frustrates me that I seem to have a harder go at it than others...especially when I'm not a bad guy. Also, I pointed out the guy's employment status and pot-smoking just to highlight that I'm not exactly reaching for the stars when it comes to my tastes. I have a security clearance and I supported an unemployed/underemployed partner for a year before he dumped me (after finding a job)...it's not like this guy's negatives are things I easily overlooked, but I still managed to idealize him as "Mr. Right."

Anyway, I resisted the urge to text him and he hasn't made any attempt to text me, so it's pretty obvious I should've shown some restraint. Online profiles, going to bars, going to museums and coffee shops, volunteering...I do all the things you're supposed to in order to meet nice guys, but I'm too shy and awkward to close the deal. That's why I started this thread in the first place...and it really helped me see that I have a lot of work to do if I'm ever going to find a meaningful relationship.

Even though I'll feel like an awkward loser, I've decided to go to this queer music event tonight (gay hipsters! yay!). Those of you who think going places by yourself are probably extroverts who easily chat up other people and make friends. That's not me. Pulling out all the stops out of desperation? I think we have a winner :(

by Love Out of Lust

reply 121

11/30/2012

(Dammit...as soon as I sent my last post, I got a text from him...see why this is so hard?)

by Love Out of Lust

reply 122

11/30/2012

OP, are you part of the Data Lounge Facebook group? You really should come over and join us. It's fun and there are a lot of cool guys (and women) there. It's also moderated by a sexy Brit and he keeps the place free of bullshit and trolls.

Come over and introduce yourself!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 123

11/30/2012

Just stop being such a drama queen. You're overthinking everything.

Do you want to hang out with/fuck/get to know this guy?

You got a text from him. It's not 'so hard'. It's what you wanted, until you didn't. You should be GLAD. Text him back and just talk to him and stop overanalyzing yourself.

Stop telling yourself 'you have a lot of work to do' 'blah blah blah. Live your life.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 124

11/30/2012

OP, do you imagine scenarios, exchanges, fucking him?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 125

11/30/2012

OP, face it. You enjoy the drama of the "sudden text after you lost all hope."

It's infinitely more exciting to live in the fast paced world of our hopes and fantasies, and 'what it all means', rather than the real world, where people are either into you or they're not, and that people do things for all kinds of unexplainable reasons.

As someone said, live your life. Don't live as a drama texter.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 126

11/30/2012

OP, I posted advice to you a few times here. This week I was diagnosed with cancer. My prognosis is pretty good. My perspective might have changed, or not. While in line at the grocery store on a rainy night, the short, dirty, and reasonably cute guy in front of me was buying a small steak, a single potato, candles, a cheap bottle of wine, and a Duraflame log. He's a roofer from Guatemala who speaks little English. Maybe not my dream man, but we ended up stoned together in the bathtub where he rents a room. We both turned 50 this year and became single. He was determined to have a good night no matter what. If I hadn't opened my mouth and been blunt and honest, he'd never have been sitting between my legs as I lathered up his hair in his bathtub. Not hearing wedding bells, but my week ended much better than expected. Say what you mean.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 127

11/30/2012

That was a sweet story, R127. I'm glad to hear your prognosis is pretty good...

Life is short, and I don't want to spend mine worrying about crap that really doesn't matter. I guess I just want to be in a relationship so bad that I tend to grab low-hanging fruits (regardless of whether their rotten, not ripe, or inedible). i really do appreciate all of the advice I've gotten on this thread. I went out tonight (by myself), and while I didn't get laid it was a much-needed distraction from all of the drama I've managed to create.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 128

11/30/2012

Good job, OP.

Use this time to sit with these feelings of insecurity and frustration, and make peace with them. Don't run from them. It's the only way we learn. Get comfortable being uncomfortable. It's reality telling you something.

Hugs, trolldarme

by Love Out of Lust

reply 129

11/30/2012

As long as you recognize that the fruit's position on the tree has little bearing on how it's going to taste, or how long it's going to last.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 130

12/01/2012

OP, the most impressive thing about this thread is that you're open to the advice that's been given to you. Maybe not all of it will work for you, but it's great that you're willing to listen to others.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 131

12/01/2012

I'm enjoying the new post-"get a blog" DL. Op, curious why you want a relationship so much. What do you think it'll provide? You might have unrealistic expectations.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 132

12/01/2012

Common issue; I see it with my clients all the time.

The key is deconstructing the concept of "Mr. Right," and figuring out why it's so important to you.

Good luck!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 133

12/01/2012

that's a great story r127. I wish you well in your recovery.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 134

12/01/2012

[quote]deconstructing the concept of "Mr. Right,"

R133 = boner killer.

Love/lust/attraction is mystical and defies analysis. It exists on a higher plane than mere science. You can't reason your way into or out of love.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 135

12/01/2012

Many a wiser man begs to disagree, R135.

Does OP sound happy on his "higher plane"?

Thank you.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 136

12/01/2012

Sounds like fun R127! I wish you well too.

Sometimes I'd really like to meet some of you in person. There's a lot of good people here.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 137

12/01/2012

It's funny when you think that a lot of people giving the advice here haven't gotten laid since the Carter administration!

Um, moving right along...

Just be yourself, OP. Now being yourself means many different things. It means being smart, but not too smart, not intimidatingly smart. Being yourself means making a contribution to the "gel" of a party or gathering. It could even mean just laughing at the right moment, but it definitely means coming out of yourself more than usual.

Everybody has low self-esteem. Even hunks and fashion models. The trick is to hide it with a kind of false bravado when you can. And stay home if you can't.

Under no circumstances describe yourself as a victim of ANYthing.

Now I want you to take off all your clothes and walk over to that mirror there. What do you see? Because what you see now is what he's gonna see later.

You can spend a fortune in a gym or you can do situps and pushups before work. You'll find it gives you more energy during the day and will help with self-esteem.

Now, do I do all these things? Nope. But who said I was supposed to practice what I preach.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 138

12/01/2012

R138 sounds like a Cosmo girl of the 60's: Look pretty, don't come across as "intimidatingly smart," laugh at the right moment.

Being yourself might mean glossing over some rough edges, like that brawl in P'Town that left just the tiniest scar over your left eye, or your complete collection of the oeuvre of Donna Summer, but you certainly don't need to dumb yourself down or maintain a six-pack to hook up with a decent guy

To me the most important skill is a sense of humor and a genuine interest in the other person. At some point, you're bound to find some element of commonality, and if you don't have anything in common, maybe it's best to move on.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 139

12/01/2012

I was always a girl who liked to play by The Rules.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 140

12/01/2012

LOL r139!!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 141

12/02/2012

Though not much has changed for Miss H. Gurly Brown. There's r138's advice in big white letters, in 2011.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 142

12/02/2012

Well OP??

by Love Out of Lust

reply 143

12/07/2012

R115 speaks a lot of truths.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 144

12/07/2012

I've been out of town this week and he's been working, so communication has been pretty sporadic (we're texting right now, but I'm about to go to bed since I just got back home a few hours ago).

He admitted something that adds a lot of context to why he's the way he is, but it hasn't changed the fact that I care about him. The only problem is, I'm not going to push and I doubt he's going to pull, so we'll probably end up being "just friends."

We've hung out every week since early November...sometimes twice a week. I figure if we haven't progressed to making out at this point, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. Meanwhile, a friend of a friend has been putting the moves on me bigtime...to the point that I'm a little uncomfortable around the guy. Funny how I'm bitching about not getting enough attention from guys, and then when I do get it, I'm creeped out.

What a mess. At least I'm in therapy!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 145

12/07/2012

"He admitted something that adds a lot of context to why he's the way he is"

Like R147 said...Are you going to have somebody to spend the holidays with?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 148

12/22/2012

Maybe Mr. Right is HIV positive which would explain why there hasn't been any sex yet.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 149

12/22/2012

Update??

by Love Out of Lust

reply 150

12/30/2012

I'm the OP:

The guy and I are friends and we have hung out every week since I posted this thread. However, even though a few promising evenings ended with him saying he'd call me to spend time together during the week...he never followed through. At the same time, he never blows me off when I suggest we hang out and he's shown enough initiative to invite me to a couple of events out of the blue.

He's not HIV positive and a few weeks ago he indicated that our difference in income was something he feels self conscious about. Overall, I've come to see that maybe it's best that we don't become anything other than friends. As attractive and sweet as this guy is, I'm tired of always selling myself short in the love department.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 151

12/30/2012

[quote] As attractive and sweet as this guy is, I'm tired of always selling myself short in the love department.

Hmm. I think the opposite is true.

All your posts suggest that you deliberately seek out either unavailable men or men who you know won't ever make it to relationship status. And then register surprise when it doesn't happen...when it appears to be the end result you worked for: to keep someone at arm's length.

You have to uncork your clenched ass (figuratively) and look for available men - and then, after getting to know them, bring down that brick wall enough to be vulnerable and let him in. If you find the right guy, a difference in income, heritage, addresses or education won't matter.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 152

12/30/2012

I really enjoyed this thread and can see myself in OP's story. I over engage too soon when I meet guys I like. I also have chosen the wrong guys and my last relationship made it so I really have been so gun shy over getting involved that it is almost 10 years since I have done more than a couple dates.

I am now 42 and feel like I am too old to meet someone, that it probably won't happen and I should settle into being single.

Sad that the one thing I always wanted never happened. Life sucks.

Sounds like you know the answer with this guy OP, protect yourself and keep yourself unattached as best you can. You sound like a good guy, so keep putting yourself out there and you will find someone, don't be too unrealistic but don't settle, either! And don't stick around with this guy as he may be distracting you when something great does come along! That is what happened to me, I feel I really missed my chance.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 153

12/30/2012

R152: You're completely right.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 154

12/30/2012

R153 don't be silly. You are not too old. You haven't even reached your peak yet.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 155

12/30/2012

r153 why would you think you're too old to meet someone. you could bump into someone tomorrow at the supermarket that you fall for. STOP PROJECTING. Maybe that's why you're single

by Love Out of Lust

reply 156

12/30/2012

I'm the OP of this thread and I couldn't help but to seek it out all these months later. The guy I started writing about has become a friend; however, it hasn't been easy to convince myself that we weren't meant to be more. Last month I admitted my feelings to him, and he gave me some insight as to why he's reluctant to be in a relationship (horrible breakup). Still, even though I was empathetic to what he was going through, this past Friday (while drunk) I asked if I could kiss him. He let me, but it was so obligatory and lacking in passion that I felt stupid for suggesting we give it a shot (and again, I was drunk!). Part of what motivated me was watching a relative stranger grope him in a bar we were at, as well as his admission that he had sex with a stranger shortly after we first met. He insists he's not looking for a relationship, but it seems like strangers are allowed to get closer to him than a good guy like me.

It seems unfair that I can't be with a guy who says he thinks I'm smart, attractive, and all that other crap. Being single sucks, but I kind of feel like I'm destined to be alone for the rest of my life. Tomorrow's Valentine's Day and if I can make it without downing an entire bottle of Ativan, it'll be a good day.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 157

02/13/2013

So - what's new OP?

Any updates, met anyone new?

Hope all is well with you :)

by Love Out of Lust

reply 158

06/07/2013

I've been head over heels in love for the past few months with a much younger narried man who I met when we briefly worked together - as colleagues only - earlier in the year. Despite the huge gulf in our ages, he would talk about our chemistry and refer to our relationship as a bromance. Since we parted as work colleagues, we attended some sporting events together. At one, this man, who's easily young enough to be my son, twice made note of what he thought were my good looks. In one instance, he said I was pretty enough to be in front of a camera. In another instance, after I told him I was taunted as a child, he asked if they were taunting handsome boys back then. And he has described me as kind and warm. Because of my respect for my friend's marital status, I refrained from acting in any way other than as a very good, devoted friend, hoping he would initiate something. He never did. He told me that his wife of almost 2 years realy wanted to meet me. I sprung for top-shelf seats behind home plate of my favorite MLB team for a game the other night (my team was playing their favorite team - both husband & wife are recent transplants to my state). Well, we met & I didn't get much in the way of warm vibes from his wife. I would've loved to have been a fly on the wall on their drive home and beyond. I suspect she either reinforced my friend's impressions of my interest or made clear to him that he was crazy if he didn't realize how much in love I was. And I'm now left to wonder if she will put the kibosh on any continuing relationship between us. And as I recognize that my feelings will no doubt remain unrequited, or that any feelings he has will not be acted upon, the rationale part of me hopes that he will not be initiating further contact.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 159

06/07/2013

r159, obviously the sensible thing to do is to walk away, because you're investing way too much of your energy and emotions in a probably unattainable object. BUT it does sound to me like there are signals that there's at least a possibility you could get him in the sack, most likely if he's really drunk. Definitely stop hoping for him to initiate something, because that will never happen. But if you guys drink a lot, and it's a situation where he doesn't have to go home to his wife (either he gets so drunk at your place that he has to spend the night and "sleep on the couch", or you're at his place when the wife's out of town, or you and him take a "bromance" out-of-town trip overnight), AND you have good game (which is vital), it sounds to me like there's a chance he'd go for it. How to get one of those circumstances to happen, though, will probably be the hard part. And of course be prepared that the friendship will probably end after that night no matter what - either you'll try something and he'll reject you and be weirded out and cut you off, or you'll hook up and the next day he'll be weirded out and cut you off.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 160

06/07/2013

r159, sounds to me like he's putting the moves on you -- whether he knows it or not. Next time he wants to hang out, ask him over to your place, get him drunk, and give him a blow job. See what happens next.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 161

06/07/2013

R158: The guy and I are still friends, but there's nothing new to report. I've taken off the blinders and realized that it's best we remain "just friends." Attraction aside, there are things about him that I was willing to settle; however, they really should be treated as the red flags they are. I'm currently traveling Europe and he's back home doing his thing. We might hang out when I get back, but the nature of my travel schedule this summer won't allow us to get our friendship back to where it was (especially since I'm no longer giving him a higher degree of accommodation than I would other friends).

If I've learned 2 things from this situation, it's that:

1. When someone tells you who they are, listen.

2. Half a man isn't better than none, so don't waste time clamoring for scraps.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 162

06/08/2013

[quote]Half a man isn't better than none, so don't waste time clamoring for scraps.

Love this. And so very true.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 163

06/08/2013

[quote] Half a man isn't better than none, so don't waste time clamoring for scraps.

When you're starving, however, with no other means of sustenance reasonably in sight, a few scraps can be manna from heaven.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 164

06/08/2013

Well who the fuck is R158 then?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 165

06/08/2013

R165, I think you meant R159, me. I hadn't read the posts, so I didn't mean to hijack OP's thread. I just wanted to get in on the discussion of closing the deal. I have since read all the posts & I can surely identify with OP's experiences.

Thank you R160 & 161 for your input & advice. But looking back on my Wednesday night outing with my friend (I might have added that after our previous get-together, my friend had asked if his wife could intrude on our "man date"), where he, as he has before, referred to himself as handsome, waiting for me to confirm that he is good-looking, I am now wondering if that may have been our swan song. I sense he's finding my overwhelming - yes, obsessive at times - interest in him (although, in my defense, I have generally refrained from being the one to initiate contact) to be somewhat uncomfortable. And his no-nonsense wife, who mentioned at the game that she played softball throughout high school, will be there to enforce that instinct.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 166

06/08/2013

r159, does your hot friend know that you are gay? That is critical information here.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 167

06/08/2013

R167, the subject has never come up, but I've never mentioned any women in my life & he's never inquired. But, I'm in my mid-50s, so he has to have done the math. Interestingly, he claims to not know my age, has said he doesn't want to know my age, & when the seubject came up he said I didn't look a day ovr 40 & left it at. Also, he has described my looks as "pretty" (as well as handsome) - something I wouldn't think a straight man would be called. When our working relationship ended, I poignantly gently tapped him on the chest & said, "To be continued." Although I come across as conservative & non-stereotypical, he'd have to be dense - and, as a honor graduate of a top law school, married to a physician, he's anything but - to have at least not wondered about my sexuality.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 168

06/08/2013

OMFG, r159, this young guy is after you, my friend. Maybe he likes hot Daddies. It happens. Maybe he has a crush on you in particular. And it could be a subconscious thing.

The physician wifey knows. I feels sorry for her. But she sounds rather dikey, anyway. Educated people can very well be "dense". Human intimacy and sexuality are deeply complex and can't be understood from textbooks. Experience matters.

I get the feeling that they married each other for the wrong reasons and that it won't last, no matter what. The guy has a man-crush on you. Maybe he's not gay, but his marriage is wrong. He loves the attention he gets from you. It makes him feel happy, even if hesitant. The wife might be better off with a "no-nonsense" person like herself.

Even I have a huge crush on you now. Am a huge baseball fan (Go GIANTS!!!). Am surprised that you are sort of closeted. Perhaps you live in a Red state or a formal, East Coast state.

This thread is now about you AND the OP, which is to say that it is not only about unrequited love, being single, but also about HONESTY. We waste everyone's time when we are not honest about intense feelings. Recently had a brush with Mr. Death. Did not offer to suck his cock.

But I now tend to go down on everyone else's, even if there is doubt or my "targets" aren't perfect boyfriend material. Try to fuck first and ask questions later. Doesn't sound like your friend is going to beat the shit out of you. He'll either accept, or he'll be flattered as he declines. Maybe you'll confuse him further and maybe that's what he needs.

Sure, STD's are out there, but everything about getting out of bed in the morning is a risk. That's just life.

You have to ask yourself: "What's the most I could lose from being honest?". Look at the amount of time and heartbreak the OP spent on his crush. Having sex or at least admitting that's what you want gets rid of so much unnecessary drama and tension.

Living in a state of fantasy only promises frustration and delays us from having authentic relationships. We are are members of a social species and we require intimacy -- on whatever level.

Life is short. Seduce this young man. Whatever happens, you'll get to move on.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 169

06/08/2013

[quote] When our working relationship ended, I poignantly gently tapped him on the chest & said, "To be continued."

This made me shudder. Serious "Hand that Rocks the Cradle" crazy vibes.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 170

06/08/2013

Hardly @ r170. The young guy is practically spewing pre-cum onto the handsome older man. He went to law school, so we're not talking about some vulnerable and starving tween at a bus stop here.

OP, it's o obvious your friend likes you as a person, but is NOT physically attracted to you. Maybe you are fat?

R159, it is obvious your friend (and his wife) is just interested in material favors from you, like great seats to sporting events.

There, thread closed. Next!

by Love Out of Lust

reply 172

06/08/2013

R170, in context my parting words weren't so crazy. You see, throughout the period my friend & I worked together I suggested that our environment would make for a great movie. My friend quickly joined in on the fun, daily pointing out certain events and/or characters that needed to be included. There was initial silence on his end when I started calling our project a romantic comedy (with the two of us as the leads, no less), but he soon was himself referring to bour romantic comedy. When it came to casting him, he pointed out that the actor who would play him would have to be "very handsome." I responded that that went without saying. I would later tell my friend (whose surname, incidentally, is my first name) that I had screen tested half the actors in Hollywood under the age of 30 & that nome of them was good looking enough to play him. So the "to be continued" line should be understood in this context.

R167/169, thank you so much for your support (&, having read your story, I wish you well, &, for both of us, a rematch of last year's World Series), but I'm afraid my storyline may have reached an unhappy conclusion (for me, at least). Seeing my friend & his wife together made it clear what a committed couple they are - my friend, at possible risk to his legal career, has followed his college sweetheart wife cross-country so that she could be in the residency of her choice. I've decided to now refrain from initiating contacting with him (a practice I've with great anguish adhered to in the past, only to eventually hear from him) & recognize that there may now not be any further contact with him. Although the most physical contact I've had with him has been the hug he initiated when he dropped me off at my car this past Wednesday, the sheer joy I experience being in his company has meant everything to me.

R172, my friend treated me to an NBA game, & insisted that he pay for the 3rd ticket to the game the other night (I have 2 season tickets). He & his wife had no idea that I had purchased the 3 seats behind home plate until we got to the game. And, since both of them come from exceedingly privileged backgrounds, I don't think they need me to supply favors.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 173

06/08/2013

[quote] I would later tell my friend (whose surname, incidentally, is my first name) that I had screen tested half the actors in Hollywood under the age of 30 & that nome of them was good looking enough to play him.

Is your friend the dentist Delbert Botts?

by Love Out of Lust

reply 174

06/09/2013

oh dear...

by Love Out of Lust

reply 175

06/09/2013

OP, this has been very interesting to follow. You seem to really have keen insight into the things you want and need vs. things you will settle for. Please do not let earlier traumas affect how you approach the world- we are all in the same boat. Remember, more than likely, anyone you put yourself out there for has had their sadnesses, too. The trick is balancing the best parts of you with another person and letting the hurt take a backseat.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 176

06/09/2013

OP I started reading your thread on a whim, and before I knew it I was quite emotionally invested in your hopes and feelings. I so wished for a happy storybook ending, but real life is seldom like that. I think that from each experience you learn more about your own wants and needs, therefore this was far from a waste of time. The one piece of advice already given by a poster which I wholeheartedly agree with is do not be afraid to go to a bar on your own. I felt the same way, and had always gone out with a small pack of girls. mOne particularly lonely night, I put on my big girl panties, had a couple of glasses of liquid courage, and headed to a bar/restaurant where it was my intention to eat a light meal at the bar, Because of my own insecurities, I planned a backstory in which a friend "might" join me later lest I look like such a loser being alone. After no more than 30 minutes of being there, a guy who was seated at a dinner table with a large group of friends approached me. We had a small talk, discovered our rabid mutual love of sports, we both had a dry sense of humor. Eventually I gave him my phone # and we parted ways in our separate cars. 4 years later we were married. Had I not ventured outside of my comfort zone, I doubt we would have ever met. So go forth and be bold! My heart goes out to you and I wish you nothing but the best.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 177

06/09/2013

"And then I thought - you know who needs to hear this story? The Internet."

by Love Out of Lust

reply 178

06/09/2013

[quote]My friend quickly joined in on the fun, daily pointing out certain events and/or characters that needed to be included.

MARY! Gay, gay, gay!

PS: Start a new thread on your dilemma.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 179

06/09/2013

R179, I'm not a member.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 180

06/09/2013

R173, you're obsessing. You've posted your story in different threads if I'm not mistaken. I think you need to cut ties with this guy. He's married. He'll never be yours. Go find someone who's available.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 181

06/09/2013

You're absolutely right, R181, that I'm obsessing over this man. And I reluctantly agree that he'll never be available to me. I just haven't felt this way about someone in almost 20 years, so I'm under no illusion that he'll be replacable. Yet it has typically been him of late who's initiated the contact after not hearing from me for a period of time.

by Love Out of Lust

reply 182

06/09/2013

Am going through withdrawals on the lack of activity on this thread. My entire body craves updates or stories from new posters.

R182, still get the feeling that this friendship is not over. Sure, he's devoted to his wife, but there is something "off" here. I once had a long bromance with a married co-worker who LOVED the attention.

We have so much in common, even though on the surface we're complete opposites: He's a huge, stereotypical, frat-boy, Irish Catholic, loud-mouthed, sometimes obnoxious Rugby player from Boston, whereas I'm a stereotypical, left-wing foodie, rabidly and openly a cock-sucking, pig-bottom of a middle-aged man in San Francisco. OK, so I'm loud-mouthed, too. And an obnoxious sports fan, especially baseball.

Had to work directly with my guy. We both knew we would either love or hate each other. His wife and our co-workers referred to us as "boyfriends" and "that odd couple". Straight and gay colleagues called him "PT" for "Prick Tease". He's very straight, even admitted to me that he has the "Irish Curse". Gave me a gold-plated (not real) cock ring AT WORK during my birthday lunch. Everything open and fun. Has sensitive, pretty blue eyes. At his drunken going away party, I tried to give him a blow job in the men's room but someone walked in on us.

There's something different about your guy, r182. While he may be "devoted" to his wife, there seems to exist a sexual and/or emotional chemistry between you two.

OT, Sorry you don't have Poo-holes on your team anymore. The Cards are my second favorite team in MLB. We're you around in the 80's when they went to the World Series with the KC Royals? A similar thing happened here with the Giants and A's in '89, in the middle of which we had a massive, life-changing earthquake. No one talks about that Series here.

Hope everyone on this thread at least tries to find his Prince Charming and posts about it.

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