You seem to be talking right past me. I didn't condone his actions. I simply said they weren't illegal. Building a mosque isn't illegal either but many people consider it in poor taste.

From your perspective building a mosque may be in the same league as celebrating the organizers of one of the biggest genocides of the 20th century (probably slightly worse if the mosque is in your back yard) but the only genocide connected with it will most likely be the violence meeted out to the people who attend the mosque in the decades to come if it does get built.

Maybe Lott or his descendants will re-enact that too.

The other difference of course is the Waffen SS did actually exist and kill people. No-one is building a mosque in NYC. THere is no Hamas Connection. No al Qaeda connection. Nothing at all but some US citizens of a certain religion trying to exercise their right to build a cultural centre for themselves on land they own.

Maybe we need a new buzzword: "Cultural Centre Denial".

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I already noted the equivalent. Second, with regard to Nazi laws and the political spectrum, the Nazi's were clearly on the left. A large centralized and authoritarian government that offered many services (in exchange for your soul of course) like health care, and handouts along with gun restrictions sounds just like the Democratic platform today.

You think Obama is a Commie. Your views on Left, Right or Upper-Stratosphere have been forfeited.

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There's no rationality to either historical reenactments nor Halloween costumes.

Maybe there is....

Maybe the rationality is that Lott supports the Neo-Nazi ideology and wants to celebrate that?

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

From your perspective building a mosque may be in the same league as celebrating the organizers of one of the biggest genocides of the 20th century (probably slightly worse if the mosque is in your back yard) but the only genocide connected with it will most likely be the violence meeted out to the people who attend the mosque in the decades to come if it does get built.

Maybe Lott or his descendants will re-enact that too.

You're so cute when you play the intent game. Don't worry Seg, Lott won't be right wing when he does that. He will temporarily change to left wing and then go back to being right wing by virtue of engaging in actions that can never be defined as right wing per your strange type of reasoning. Also you may be right that it is a top 3 genocide, but in actual numbers, it is only 1/10 the size of the genocides perpetuated by those nasty collectivists. They win again.

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The other difference of course is the Waffen SS did actually exist and kill people. No-one is building a mosque in NYC. THere is no Hamas Connection. No al Qaeda connection. Nothing at all but some US citizens of a certain religion trying to exercise their right to build a cultural centre for themselves on land they own.

Maybe we need a new buzzword: "Cultural Centre Denial".

Do you think if someone was building a German Cultural Center that was celebrating the achievements of Nazi Germany that it would go over with no protests? Again we are talking about a city where you cannot build a Walmart. See I don't have to create some false equivalence and imply future violence from it in some desperate attempt to sway people since the argument you present itself is not compelling. I have a real equivalence. I have a real instance whereby the left has not only protested against, but at time litigated against an actual company here in the United States.

So, and talk about your example of psychosis, we see that some on the right my consider a mosque "near" by their reasoning, ground zero is something that is done in poor taste. They consider it, be it by weak association or not, to be something to easily associated with reminders of terrorism.

Yet on the right, we see the equivalence is Walmart. Yes, Seg that means that the left consider a Walmart store to be equal on terms to both 9/11 and terrorism.

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You think Obama is a Commie. Your views on Left, Right or Upper-Stratosphere have been forfeited.

Oh here you talk about wanting to not put on clothes associated with certain movements and yet you practice such eliminationism yourself. Should I quickly march myself off to Siberia or is there a local gas chamber you can march me into since per your reasoning, if you don't agree the right of that person is forfeited.

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Maybe there is....

Maybe the rationality is that Lott supports the Neo-Nazi ideology and wants to celebrate that

Maybe the rationality is that folks like yourself use their motives to excuse their real life actions.

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Originally Posted by FineTunes

You have to remember that Seg likes to be blunt and absurd on purpose. Some of us are quite used to that little game though.

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Originally Posted by segovius

The German comments referred to the untidiness of the uniforms - something that would not be tolerated in the Third Reich and which is not faithful to the spirit of re-enactment.

Welcome comrades!
We will protect the German people of impurity!

Yeah, except for that part of course. The statement that started it and from which the others flowed.

You're so cute when you play the intent game. Don't worry Seg, Lott won't be right wing when he does that. He will temporarily change to left wing and then go back to being right wing by virtue of engaging in actions that can never be defined as right wing per your strange type of reasoning. Also you may be right that it is a top 3 genocide, but in actual numbers, it is only 1/10 the size of the genocides perpetuated by those nasty collectivists. They win again.

I'm starting to get it a lot lately...the Right-wing weltanschauung - it's kind of basic really. Not sure how I missed it this long...or maybe I am being conditioned like Winston Smith and will eventually love Big Brother?

It works like this: history is written by the winners. It's that simple. Of course Wingers have added a refinement:

They rewrite history BEFORE they win and rewrite it to say they DID win even before it happened and - courtesy of their legions of unthinking drones - so it turns out to be.

Bush was honest - and for once lucid - when he spoke for the Right:

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when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that realityjudiciously, as you willwe'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out.

That's what they do. Create reality.

Have a product that is of the worst possible quality, made in a sweat-shop yet you want top elite price?

2) Spend minutes convincing the sheep that the product already is the best possible.

Or if you prefer:

1) Convince the sheep that black is white or right is left.

Or Ugly is Beautiful.

Or Evil is Godly.

Or Trumpy is Rational and Objective.

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Do you think if someone was building a German Cultural Center that was celebrating the achievements of Nazi Germany that it would go over with no protests?

So you believe the NYC Islamic Cultural Centre is celebrating something on a par with the Holocaust?

What is it celebrating? 911 deaths? Are they on a par with the Holocaust? Do you believe they are celebrating them?

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Again we are talking about a city where you cannot build a Walmart.

No problems with no Walmart.

I'd hope you can't build concentration camps in NYC either.

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See I don't have to create some false equivalence and imply future violence from it in some desperate attempt to sway people since the argument you present itself is not compelling.

Again, you are not perhaps the best benchmark of what is compelling. On a personal level I fully accept it is not compelling to you but then such things might form a very long list and there could well be many surprising (or frightening) items on it.

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I have a real equivalence. I have a real instance whereby the left has not only protested against, but at time litigated against an actual company here in the United States.

Equivalence to what? The Waffen SS? Walmart?

Wow.

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So, and talk about your example of psychosis, we see that some on the right my consider a mosque "near" by their reasoning, ground zero is something that is done in poor taste. They consider it, be it by weak association or not, to be something to easily associated with reminders of terrorism.

They might. Though it is not a mosque. So you'd expect them to chill out when they learn that.

You might expect someone who finds a Syphilitic Silverback Gorilla on steroids living in their closet, stealing their breakfast and pawing the missus while forcing their way into the marital bed every evening to be similarly exercised.

However, when no Silverback Gorilla exists and we merely have someone obsessed with the idea that there is one while they live in on the 153rd floor of a skyscraper in a Western city of 10 million people and no zoos I think we are dealing with a rather different case.

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Yet on the right, we see the equivalence is Walmart. Yes, Seg that means that the left consider a Walmart store to be equal on terms to both 9/11 and terrorism.

You lost me there..... what time is it there? Is it Happy Hour again?

I do think however that Walmart may in some sense be a symptom of something that is in fact a greater threat than terrorism but I don't think you meant that.

That's deeper stuff and will have to wait...

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Oh here you talk about wanting to not put on clothes associated with certain movements and yet you practice such eliminationism yourself. Should I quickly march myself off to Siberia or is there a local gas chamber you can march me into since per your reasoning, if you don't agree the right of that person is forfeited.

Not the same thing.

Authoritarian dictatorships such as the Right-wing ones led by Pinochet, Franco, Hitler etc, remove NORMAL people from a Society that they have made ABNORMAL yet called 'free' and the norm. Bit like what you do when you relabel 'right' as 'left' now I think of it but I digress. These regimes twist things into their opposites and their aim is to denigrate.

Oth, imagine a class of children learning at a certain pace....perhaps there is one child who continually falls behind - maybe he thinks black is called 'white' or has trouble identifying which hand is the right-hand say - then he may well be removed to an environment where he can be given special attention more in keeping with his needs and where he is no longer a drag on the progress of his classmates.

The aim here is to progress. Two different things.

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Maybe the rationality is that folks like yourself use their motives to excuse their real life actions.

I don't think so.

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You have to remember that Seg likes to be blunt and absurd on purpose. Some of us are quite used to that little game though.

To the hungry man two plus two equals four loaves of bread.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Nietzsches works remain controversial, and there is widespread disagreement about their interpretation and significance. Part of the difficulty in interpreting Nietzsche arises from the uniquely provocative style of his philosophical writing. Nietzsche frequently delivered trenchant critiques of Christianity in the most offensive and blasphemous terms possible given the context of 19th century Europe. These aspects of Nietzsche's style run counter to traditional values in philosophical writing, and they alienated him from the academic establishment both in his time and, to a lesser extent, today. Some analytic philosophers dismiss Nietzsche as inconsistent and speculative, producing something other than "real" philosophy.

Seg would be giving Nietzsche fellatio if possible, or to put this in more reasonable terms, Seg believes him a profound influence and emulates him in many ways. This understanding will help you understand his posting style which amounts to 40% personal attack, 40% caricatured/illogical/intentionally absurd thinking and 20% actual attempt at substance.

My guess would be that he believes the 80% softens you up and makes you more receptive to the 20%. It's not much different from what Ann Coulter does so well. Seg just needs better writers I guess so he doesn't sound so much like Bill Maher discussing religion a few too many tequila shots into the evening.

I came to terms with all aspects of my sexuality and achieved psychological balance decades ago Trumpy.... and even in my experimental youth I would not confuse intellectual output or capacity with prowess in the sexual arena.

Indeed, many of my most memorable sexual exploits have involved a partner with a somewhat less than Einsteinian grasp of the more abstruse aspects of philosophical discourse.

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or to put this in more reasonable terms, Seg believes him a profound influence and emulates him in many ways.

I cannot claim originality in this - I expect most thinking people who are aware of his work would fall into the same category. It's not unusual providing one can grasp the material.

It's a bit like saying those who have tried the Chateau Margaux 1978 tend to like it.

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This understanding will help you understand his posting style which amounts to 40% personal attack, 40% caricatured/illogical/intentionally absurd thinking and 20% actual attempt at substance.

Perhaps statistics is not your metier Trumps... there seems very little wrong with the figures but they STILL don't add up.

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My guess would be that he believes the 80% softens you up and makes you more receptive to the 20%.

No...I can't say that I've ever thought that the percentage to which you are receptive could be measured in double figures.

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It's not much different from what Ann Coulter does so well.

Ann Coulter does nothing well. So that presents a problem...

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Seg just needs better writers I guess so he doesn't sound so much like Bill Maher discussing religion a few too many tequila shots into the evening.

Better = Worse in terms of the right=left bizzaro looking-glass world (are Wingers on acid? IIt never crossed my mind because acidheads are usually cool and have a degree of insight but something's going on.....) so perhaps I'll pass.

Sad to say I've read all Right-wing literature. It sounds arrogant but there really isn;t that much.It doesn't take long to plough through it...the time span (100 years?) makes it seem there should be more but writing isn't exactly their thing....I suppose it's because it requires thinking a little.

Anyway, let's give good old Friedrich the last word:

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No one can draw more out of things, books included, than he already knows. A man has no ears for that to which experience has given him no access.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

BTW, in the interest of helping FineTunes, this post will be responded to, but will also have the various meta-mechanisms within it pointed out as well.

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Originally Posted by segovius

I'm starting to get it a lot lately...the Right-wing weltanschauung - it's kind of basic really. Not sure how I missed it this long...or maybe I am being conditioned like Winston Smith and will eventually love Big Brother?

This is a rationalization for why he gets to mistreat people and attack them.

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It works like this: history is written by the winners. It's that simple. Of course Wingers have added a refinement:

They rewrite history BEFORE they win and rewrite it to say they DID win even before it happened and - courtesy of their legions of unthinking drones - so it turns out to be.

Bush was honest - and for once lucid - when he spoke for the Right:

That's what they do. Create reality.

This is a bit of absurdist caricature. At least it must be because no one could truly be so ironic as to be crafting a reality about some entire monolithic caricatured masses crafting reality. Notice also how it isn't really addressing the topics discussed in any form or fashion. It's almost a pure strawman. Yet it isn't really meant to knock someone off their game. It's more like he has to say this to himself to justify his own actions. Reinforce the caricature, then you can treat the real people saying real things badly due to this imagined preconceptions. It's quite fascinating.

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Have a product that is of the worst possible quality, made in a sweat-shop yet you want top elite price?

Two solutions:

1) Spend years upping your game, investing, sourcing highest quality staff and resources.
2) Spend minutes convincing the sheep that the product already is the best possible.
Or if you prefer:
1) Convince the sheep that black is white or right is left.
Or Ugly is Beautiful.
Or Evil is Godly.
Or Trumpy is Rational and Objective.

Notice again the absurdity here in reasoning. Amazingly enough in this scenario it is cheaper to control and manipulate factors completely out of ones control than it is to pay to manipulate the variables one can control. Again a bit of absurdism and a nice personal attack thrown in for good measure.

See, Seg wants you to believe that these heartless and cruel wealthy folks can somehow control what all the "sheep" think and do and that this is cheaper and easier than actually tossing a few extra bucks at that folks doing all the work. You can apparently cheaply and easily convince them to act completely contrary to perceived reality. This magic spell of course cannot be cast by those of the left. Their policies always fail, not through any actual measure of their own effectiveness but because the right spoke up and got the masses to buy the "big lie."

Thus the most intelligent are always defeated by the evil due to the sheep. It's quite a nice narrative and in keeping with the thread theme, probably pretty easy to keep internally reinforcing.

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So you believe the NYC Islamic Cultural Centre is celebrating something on a par with the Holocaust?

What is it celebrating? 911 deaths? Are they on a par with the Holocaust? Do you believe they are celebrating them?

Nice strawman. Did anyone say anything about celebrating the holocaust? Can you quote me on that please?

FT, please note the nice strawman here because it justifies the mistreatment that follows.

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No problems with no Walmart.

Well you as an individual do not count. There are several individuals on here who have stated no problems or issues with what is proposed in NY. Yet the brush paints very broadly from you.

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I'd hope you can't build concentration camps in NYC either.

They already have. They simply call them ethnic enclaves and assign them a Democratic Congressman who represents them for life while providing no improvement in their lives. The sheep could question why their lives haven't improved, but their Democrats owners manage to scream racism every time they start to blink awake from the sleep of their continued impoverished circumstances.

(Note: This is me giving back Seg a bit of what he does. I have to have a little fun too and considering how absurd his claims are, it keeps things light since his attempt with all the caricatures and absurdity is to rile the poster up.)

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Again, you are not perhaps the best benchmark of what is compelling. On a personal level I fully accept it is not compelling to you but then such things might form a very long list and there could well be many surprising (or frightening) items on it.

This is Seg moving from the reality of what has been posted, linked and cited and instead personalizing it. The reality that Walmarts have been banned in NY City is no longer of importance because, well because I'm not a good benchmark. The discussion of how some people feel it important to determine what is in and how it influences their neighborhood isn't important when discussing Islamic cultural and community centers. It is important when discussing Walmart though.

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Equivalence to what? The Waffen SS? Walmart?
Wow.

Wow indeed. No one has stopped the center but they have crafted laws and kludged up the approval process to keep out Walmart. To the left, Walmart is equivalent to Hitler or terrorists and by that I mean their feelings for that issue are so strong that they override pure reason and they feel they can act purely on matters of taste and emotional appeals.

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They might. Though it is not a mosque. So you'd expect them to chill out when they learn that.

Why do they need to chill out? If they are merely expressing a preference or are willing to help assist in or lobby for someone else to purchase the land to put something else there, what is wrong with that?

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You might expect someone who finds a Syphilitic Silverback Gorilla on steroids living in their closet, stealing their breakfast and pawing the missus while forcing their way into the marital bed every evening to be similarly exercised.

However, when no Silverback Gorilla exists and we merely have someone obsessed with the idea that there is one while they live in on the 153rd floor of a skyscraper in a Western city of 10 million people and no zoos I think we are dealing with a rather different case.

More absurdly caricatured analogies.

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You lost me there..... what time is it there? Is it Happy Hour again?

Ad-hom personal attack

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I do think however that Walmart may in some sense be a symptom of something that is in fact a greater threat than terrorism but I don't think you meant that.

That's deeper stuff and will have to wait...

This is a fun bit of bait. Often as conversations wind down Seg will say what he really thinks. In this instance he will later probably admit that the left should be free to keep the sheep away from the evil corporate Walmart and likewise the sheep must tolerate whatever is built with whatever title and Islamic connotations it has associated with it. The elites that always seem to lose, but know best should win and those who win by telling the big lie, well they should lose since the elites are only protecting the sheep from themselves and the lies.

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Not the same thing.

Authoritarian dictatorships such as the Right-wing ones led by Pinochet, Franco, Hitler etc, remove NORMAL people from a Society that they have made ABNORMAL yet called 'free' and the norm. Bit like what you do when you relabel 'right' as 'left' now I think of it but I digress. These regimes twist things into their opposites and their aim is to denigrate.

This is a bit of Seg fun where he keeps repeating how evil his associations with the right must be due to the murder of 12 million Jews, Gypsies and others. When pressed as to why the Communists have killed ten times that many the answers are absurd, personal attacks, or sometimes even, this the price of progress and everyone does it, but not really since the victors only said the losers did it and the victors were evil rich people and the losers were all the smart people.... who always lose.

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Oth, imagine a class of children learning at a certain pace....perhaps there is one child who continually falls behind - maybe he thinks black is called 'white' or has trouble identifying which hand is the right-hand say - then he may well be removed to an environment where he can be given special attention more in keeping with his needs and where he is no longer a drag on the progress of his classmates.

The aim here is to progress. Two different things.

This is Seg's nice way of saying his eliminationist rhetoric is justified. The people who don't agree with him are slow, dimwitted, likely sub-human if he cared to fess up to it and thus when they are eliminated, as has often been the case when authoritarian leftist regimes come to power, they aren't really hurting anyone but merely cracking some eggs in the name of "progress."

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I don't think so.

This deep bit of reasoning is the defense for the eliminationist rhetoric.

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To the hungry man two plus two equals four loaves of bread.

This line shows that this is for the hungry and poor masses, who we will help against those teling the big lie, even though the hungry and poor masses don't seem to understand, want or desire our help. When we take over, those who agree with us will benefit, those who aren't will be assigned to that "special class" due to their falling behind with regard to enlightenment. That class will go on a fieldtrip where they will all conveniently turn up dead, but hey, at least they aren't shopping at Walmart and they certainly won't be intolerantly protesting Islamic cultural centers so all is good with the world in the end.

I have to have my own bit of fun there at the end too. Considering what was posted, I've been quite the model of restraint.

I have to have my own bit of fun there at the end too. Considering what was posted, I've been quite the model of restraint.

I have to say that the whole rant was quite inspired.... it is amazing on many levels but I need to digest.

You see, here I was, sadly thinking that no light could permeate and wondering whether I shouldn't just go down the pub and ponder why I waste my time casting pearls before swine and then....and then....

And then.. just as it is darkest before the dawn comes LIGHT...

It seems you have learned from me after all Trumpy. I know you could never have written all that without my inspiration behind the scenes.

I am humbled and just a little proud....

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

I have to say that the whole rant was quite inspired.... it is amazing on many levels but I need to digest.

I think you might need to go down to the pub Seg. See that wasn't at all a rant.

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You see, here I was, sadly thinking that no light could permeate and wondering whether I shouldn't just go down the pub and ponder why I waste my time casting pearls before swine and then....and then....

And then.. just as it is darkest before the dawn comes LIGHT...

It seems you have learned from me after all Trumpy. I know you could never have written all that without my inspiration behind the scenes.

I am humbled and just a little proud....

That was child's play. It's pretty funny actually. You felt that was something inspired and it was nothing but me throwing open your little bag of tricks for the world. You're sort of like the kid who feels good because you realized no one really took your nose and now you see how dumb those adults are for thinking they were fooling you.

Sadly though, you don't get to play with the big boys yet Seg. It takes a little more than realizing no one took your nose. You've got to grow up and stop playing with the little bag of tricks.

I think you might need to go down to the pub Seg. See that wasn't at all a rant.

That was child's play. It's pretty funny actually. You felt that was something inspired and it was nothing but me throwing open your little bag of tricks for the world. You're sort of like the kid who feels good because you realized no one really took your nose and now you see how dumb those adults are for thinking they were fooling you.

Sadly though, you don't get to play with the big boys yet Seg. It takes a little more than realizing no one took your nose. You've got to grow up and stop playing with the little bag of tricks.

Heheh

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

"Part of the reason that our politics seems so tough right now, and facts and science and argument do not seem to be winning the day all the time, is because we're hard-wired not to always think clearly when we're scared," Obama told the assembled Democrats, who paid $15,200 a person to attend. "And the country is scared."
To "break through the fear and the frustration that people are feeling right now," Obama told the crowd, will require high-end donors not just to "write checks" but also to "lift up people's spirits and make sure that they're not reacting just to fear."

What's wrong with what he said it two things: First the implication that "facts and science" are actually on his side. Second, the implication that, yet again, there aren't logical, rational and reasonable reasons to be opposed to him, the Democrats in general and their policies.

Also, the implication that to combat this so-called "irrational thought" and fear, donations must be made to the Democratic Party...which has used fear as its primary tactic to advance its radical big-government agenda.

What's wrong with what he said it two things: First the implication that "facts and science" are actually on his side. Second, the implication that, yet again, there aren't logical, rational and reasonable reasons to be opposed to him, the Democrats in general and their policies.

Facts and Science aren't on anybody's side. It's merely a question of the degree to which one accepts them or works to understand them.

In this case I don't think he implied that facts and science ARE on his side - he was talking in the abstract about how people tend to react to frightening situations.

This is actually science and facts in itself actually and the fact people are opposing it is a classic text-book example of it.

It has been shown that our brains took hundreds of thousands of years to develop responses to threats that we no longer have to face - in short, we have not yet adapted to threats such as nuclear war, terrorism etc. And so our response is fear - but made confusing (hence neurosis) by the fact we cannot rationalize the threats because our brains are still operating in 'fight or flight' and hardwired to deal with immediate physical threats.

This has been proved in many studies.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

In this case I don't think he implied that facts and science ARE on his side - he was talking in the abstract about how people tend to react to frightening situations.

I'm also looking at the context of his remarks: a fundraiser. He's trying to generate monetary support for his party and policies. The implication is that:

1) only rational people vote for Democrats
2) more people are thinking irrationally because they are scared
3) you can combat fear and help more people think rationally and in turn vote Democrat by donating money to the Democrat Party

Let me turn this "logic" on its ear.

I submit that Obama was voted into office by people who were thinking irrationally and voted out of fear, and that the growing lack of support for the Democrats and their agenda is because fewer people are thinking irrationally and voting out of fear.

Hm. You seem to want to make a post that you don't want to defend. So I will help you.

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"Part of the reason that our politics seems so tough right now, and facts and science and argument do not seem to be winning the day all the time, is because we're hard-wired not to always think clearly when we're scared,"

This is true. Obama is American, and he is not a tyrant, nor a fascist, nor a Muslim. There are no death panels, and he has cut taxes for most Americans.

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And the country is scared.

This is true too.

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To "break through the fear and the frustration that people are feeling right now," Obama told the crowd, will require high-end donors not just to "write checks" but also to "lift up people's spirits and make sure that they're not reacting just to fear."

This is true too.

So you've posted this in a thread that tries to prove that Democrats are slipping in to psychosis. It does not (that is a hysterical, shriek-like-a-seven-year-old cowardly pants-pissing load of right wing shit designed to make solutions and dialogue more difficult). And, arguably, everything he said was true.

If you disagree, you might like to explain your position, using the words you quoted in the first place to back up your argument.

Or you may just continue to wet your pants and make your country a shitter place.

But which facts? The "facts" as Obama (and the Democratic politicians and candidates) sees them?

I think people are looking at certain facts and thinking "we've given this group too much power all at once." facts like unemployment continuing to climb and be persistently high (despite "stimulus" spending), massive spending and debt, a health care "reform" bill rammed through Congress. These are facts (et al) that I think people see and think...hey...maybe it's time to stop this freight train.