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The statement that started this little discussion was some stupid idea by Tlaib that Arabs helped Jews establish their homeland. At least after 1947, that was definitely not true. Prior to 1947, the Jews in Palestine and in other areas throughout the Middle East enjoyed mostly peaceful living conditions in Arab Countries.
This changed dramatically when the UN partitioned Palestine into two States - a Jewish State and an Arab State. Very few Jews lived in the areas which became the Palestinian State, but Arabs were a majority in the Jewish State. A consequence of that partitioning was the 1948 war. The result of the war was that many Arabs were removed from their homes and places of business and forced to leave the Jewish State. In 1967, the Egyptian President close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli flagged vessels and entered into a mutual defense pact with Jordan. Days later, Israel began launching missiles at Jordan. This war resulted in the occupation of much of the Palestinian State. So, while you might think that only one involves the dissolution of an existing nation, I totally disagree.

I am certainly opposed to genocide of any group of people or to discrimination against any group of people. I do, however, believe that the anti-Semitism card is played far too often and with respect to things that relate to political practices. For example, I am opposed to Israel's establishment of settlements in the occupied territories in violation of UN agreements. Does that position make me anti-Semitic? Can someone voice that opinion and not be called out as being an anti-Semite in some circles? AOC was accused of being anti-Semitic by suggesting that some Congressional leaders pro-Israel votes are bought by contributions of pro-Israel groups. She is probably correct, just as I believe votes on health care, guns, the environment, etc are bought by groups that support those causes.

"My Promised Land" by Ari Shavat is a very interesting book on the history of Palestine from the mid-1800's through more recent times. I think it takes a fairly balanced approach to various events that have occurred over time and how those events have taken us to where we are today.

In just about every way, her story is the classic American immigrant's story. I get the sense she's sincere in being able to relate to what Jewish people went through in the Holocaust, just as she described feeling a connection to learning of African American history in public schools in Detroit. She doesn't flinch from the truth of what the Holocaust was about, doesn't deny it happened, or anything ridiculous like that. Her politics are unquestionably "progressive", but it's hard to sense her perspective is anything but genuine.

Clearly this is true on both the left and right sides of the political spectrum.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

Yes. Israel won the war that was fought for that land, so they currently own it. That's the lack of symmetry. To have a single state under Arab rule would require the dissolution of an existing nation. To have a single state under Israeli rule would just be a continuation of the status quo. I don't know what should be done; it's certainly very difficult. I'm just pointing out that your hypothetical is not symmetric.

I don’t believe the UN ever conceded that Israel owns the occupied territories. In fact there are UN resolutions making it unlawful for Israel to build settlements in the occupied territories.

I have been a professor at Harvard University for 34 years. In that time, the school has made some mistakes. But it has never so thoroughly embarrassed itself as it did this past weekend. At the center of the controversy is Ronald Sullivan, a law professor who ran afoul of student activists enraged that he was willing to represent Harvey Weinstein....

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

Those Arabs who didn't leave after the partition were granted citizenship as proof that Israel is commited to being a true democracy, with equal rights for all, etc. But they've had a kind of 2nd class status within Israel, widely discriminated against.

Netanyahu has recently used Israeli Arabs to motivate voters on the right, claiming they are pushing to undermine Israel. "Bibi vs Tibi" was the motto, and the good natured Arab Israeli "Tibi" - a long time politician - claimed "I'm not running for Prime Minister, but I guess I am!". https://www.timesofisrael.com/facing...in-on-arab-mk/

This is the situation the NBR divesture movement points to in claiming an Apartheid situation of tiering exists: Israeli Jews + Jewish settlers in the occupied territories, Israeli Arabs who are citizens, and then Arabs in the occupied territories.

Long term, Netanyahu seems to seek a purified one-state solution, getting the fast-growing Palestinians moved in with neighboring Arab nations.

Those Arabs who didn't leave after the partition were granted citizenship as proof that Israel is commited to being a true democracy, with equal rights for all, etc. But they've had a kind of 2nd class status within Israel, widely discriminated against.

Netanyahu has recently used Israeli Arabs to motivate voters on the right, claiming they are pushing to undermine Israel. "Bibi vs Tibi" was the motto, and the good natured Arab Israeli "Tibi" - a long time politician - claimed "I'm not running for Prime Minister, but I guess I am!". https://www.timesofisrael.com/facing...in-on-arab-mk/

This is the situation the NBR divesture movement points to in claiming an Apartheid situation of tiering exists: Israeli Jews + Jewish settlers in the occupied territories, Israeli Arabs who are citizens, and then Arabs in the occupied territories.

Long term, Netanyahu seems to seek a purified one-state solution, getting the fast-growing Palestinians moved in with neighboring Arab nations.

I think the thing to remember is that Bibi is not Israel.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

Local elementary school is piloting a new curriculum based on diversity and inclusion. It looks pretty good except for the gender stuff. They have a lot of material aimed at kindergarten, 1st, and 2nd grade about transgender issues. It's all very confusing, and none of it is backed by science. I'm pretty well set in the "let's not confuse little children" camp, and I'm always amazed at how many people are not with me on that.

Edit: parents are not allowed to opt out of this program. That seems like a religious freedom issue, right?

As with most political issues, Bibi simply represents the Israili people. They didn't all vote for him just because of his stance on the Palestinian issue, but they didn't vote against him when that was his primary issue. We have met the enemy, and they are us.

As with most political issues, Bibi simply represents the Israili people. They didn't all vote for him just because of his stance on the Palestinian issue, but they didn't vote against him when that was his primary issue. We have met the enemy, and they are us.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

I think the best thing that could happen for the Republicans is for the new Alabama abortion law never to make it to the Supreme Court before the next election. The Republicans should talk about the economy, jobs, healthcare, but if they make abortion their issue they’re going to get hurt.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

I think the best thing that could happen for the Republicans is for the new Alabama abortion law never to make it to the Supreme Court before the next election. The Republicans should talk about the economy, jobs, healthcare, but if they make abortion their issue they’re going to get hurt.

They seemed determined to widen the gender gap. Should kill them among college educated suburban women.

You think the repubs should talk about healthcare? I suspect the dems would love that. The issue killed the repubs last year.

You think the repubs should talk about healthcare? I suspect the dems would love that. The issue killed the repubs last year.

That was an add-on to my list. If they are smart in talking about healthcare they could do well with the issue. But they are not smart about it. 70% of Americans like the healthcare arrangements they have, so the Dems need to be careful how they talk about the subject too.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

I think the best thing that could happen for the Republicans is for the new Alabama abortion law never to make it to the Supreme Court before the next election. The Republicans should talk about the economy, jobs, healthcare, but if they make abortion their issue they’re going to get hurt.

Abortion and the death penalty are two issues I struggle to come to grips with. I think I am currently opposed to the death penalty although individual cases present themselves and I question my position. Abortion is even more difficult for me. I was placed for adoption as an infant by a single mother who was not prepared financially to care for me. I met her in my mid-40s and had an arms-length relationship with her until she died. I also met my biological father and have a similar relationship. They never married. Placing me for adoption was the greatest act of love she could do for me. It cost her greatly. She was committed to the State Mental Hospital for several months after giving me up. It is very possible that had it been 2016 instead of 1956, I would not have made it. Personally, I believe my spirit would have been given another body, but that is just my personal belief. I have a hard time with the viability argument because no infant is viable after birth. I'm not sure if I believe that abortion is murder. I'm not sure what the LDS Church's position is on that. IMO, if it is murder, it is always murder even in cases of incest and rape. Given all of this, I come down on the side of choice within reasonable timeframes. My wife was a NICU nurse at Primary Children's. According to her, doctors have the choice to attempt to resuscitate a 22 week pre-term birth. They usually draw the line at 24 weeks. However, those infants will spend months in the NICU. A majority will have heart, lung, brain and eye issues that will result in the need for multiple surgeries over a 4 or 5 year period. Many will die without ever leaving the hospital. Some will live, but will need 24/7 care the rest of their lives. Some of the care they require is too technical to be done at home and there are now the equivalent of assisted living centers for these infants. There are always exceptions and my wife has seen some miraculous outcomes. Most outcomes, however, do not have miraculous outcomes. Most of the mothers are young or over 40. They are faced with the most difficult decision I can imagine. They are required to make decisions about when to end support. Many say they will let God decide, but they have removed the decision from God because of the support that is immediately provided at birth. In addition to the emotional trauma, there are financial considerations. Many of the mothers are from poor economic conditions and do not have insurance. Even those with insurance face 6 to 7 figure medical bills after insurance.

Laws respecting abortion and the death penalty are made in a vacuum. Real life and death decisions are not found in that vacuum.

That was an add-on to my list. If they are smart in talking about healthcare they could do well with the issue. But they are not smart about it. 70% of Americans like the healthcare arrangements they have, so the Dems need to be careful how they talk about the subject too.

I really question your 70% figure. I have some health issues that allow me to be on medicare. I like medicare. My wife retired. We pay about $1,200 per month for the same coverage she had as a nurse at Primary Children's. That is about $700 per month more then she paid while working. She paid about $250 per paycheck for her coverage. We would much rather have the coverage for her that I have under medicare. This was true even when she was still employed.

I really question your 70% figure. I have some health issues that allow me to be on medicare. I like medicare. My wife retired. We pay about $1,200 per month for the same coverage she had as a nurse at Primary Children's. That is about $700 per month more then she paid while working. She paid about $250 per paycheck for her coverage. We would much rather have the coverage for her that I have under medicare. This was true even when she was still employed.

Looks like people are happy with the healthcare they receive but not as many are happy with the cost of the care. If the Republicans wanted to be creative about this they could make some headway. The Democrats will probably address this issue only with additional entitlements or expanded Medicaid, or something like that. That might work for them.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

I agree with you here, and I'm continually disappointed that people are unwilling to compromise on this. The "all abortion is murder" rhetoric is as ridiculous as the "stay out of my uterus" rhetoric.

This is a problem that seems to be custom made for compromise.

For those who truly believe it is murder, it is tough to compromise. For those who are willing to carve out exceptions for rape and incest, I find their belief that it is murder to be questionable at best.

For those who truly believe it is murder, it is tough to compromise. For those who are willing to carve out exceptions for rape and incest, I find their belief that it is murder to be questionable at best.

I fear we will never reach compromises on tough issues again.

Roe v Wade is the compromise. something like 65-70% of voters would keep the status quo, with an exception for rape, incest or health of the mother.

Roe v Wade is the compromise. something like 65-70% of voters would keep the status quo, with an exception for rape, incest or health of the mother.

I will quibble with you: I don’t think a controversial and sweeping decision by a court of last resort can be considered a compromise. If the issue had been left to state legislatures, or to Congress, abortion would be widely available in most states, and would be somewhat more limited, just as it is in European countries — where legislatures accountable to the people had to work out compromises. They couldn’t just leave the matter to the courts.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

I will quibble with you: I don’t think a controversial and sweeping decision by a court of last resort can be considered a compromise. If the issue had been left to state legislatures, or to Congress, abortion would be widely available in most states, and would be somewhat more limited, just as it is in European countries — where legislatures accountable to the people had to work out compromises. They couldn’t just leave the matter to the courts.

The point is that it is the compromise that most voters would embrace if legislated today. Most voters would keep the status quo embodied in Roe. They don't want more restrictive laws. I'm really referring to Roe as social policy, not a nearly 50 year old legal opinion.

Two-thirds of the country supports Roe v. Wade, 2/3rds supports comprehensive gun reform, 2/3rds supports increased taxes on wealthy w/ expanded healthcare coverage, and yet 1/3 of the country is determining much of the path. This is tyranny of the minority in action.

Two-thirds of the country supports Roe v. Wade, 2/3rds supports comprehensive gun reform, 2/3rds supports increased taxes on wealthy w/ expanded healthcare coverage, and yet 1/3 of the country is determining much of the path. This is tyranny of the minority in action.

Well, I guess that settles it.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

For those who truly believe it is murder, it is tough to compromise. For those who are willing to carve out exceptions for rape and incest, I find their belief that it is murder to be questionable at best.

I fear we will never reach compromises on tough issues again.

In 2012, Missouri Republican Todd Akin said there was no reason to include exceptions for rape, because "if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut the whole thing down", and funding for his campaign dried up and he lost by 15 points.

Today, the anti-abortion movement has a significant consensus that exclusions for incest and rape detract from the purity of their moral stance. "Rapists like abortion because it helps cover up their crime".

That was an add-on to my list. If they are smart in talking about healthcare they could do well with the issue. But they are not smart about it. 70% of Americans like the healthcare arrangements they have, so the Dems need to be careful how they talk about the subject too.

I would like to see the numbers on this. I suspect they have dropped much lower than this in the last 3-5 years as higher insurance premiums are passed onto employees and higher deductibles bankrupt people,

Nevermind. I see you posted it later.

It seems like people are happy with their doctors but really aren't happy with the health care system.

It seems like people are happy with their doctors but really aren't happy with the health care system.

I think that's about right.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats

“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

I think this is probably true. For many white Americans, it's a lot easier to be charitable toward blacks knowing you're in a position of unquestioned dominance, with a president who looks like you and - for some - is at least is perceived to give the Klan a pass. For many of these same folks, when Obama was the President, a primal anger arose within, an alienation, a personal offense.

The chatter I hear from members of the AA community (through my better half) - at least those who stay abreast of what Trump says - ranges from ridicule to acute distress... but it is anything but "neutral", or normal, or positive. There is an unquestionable sense that it's a period of danger, things are going backward, civil rights could be curtailed, or maybe even reversed.

"Right now they're going after Roe and the immigrants. Next it could be us."

I overhear chatter about why it's important to support an old white guy - Biden - if he's the nominee. "Now is not the time to be pushing a woman or another person of color". (Granted, the audience are not millennials, they're seasoned folks.)