If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

imported post

I didn't want to hijack (another) thread, but wanted to cover a subject of interest.

Yes, you can just not talk to them during an illegal detainment/seizure. But I've also seen suggested the 'go ahead and talk, but give them useless information.'

Often, annoying people will accuse you of being a jerk for standing srong and assertig your rights while a dirty pig screams, curses and threatens you. Can't you just be nice and do what the JBT tells you to, regardless of the fact that he has absolutely no right to be doing it?

When a Badge and Uniform asserts false authority, stark refusal to respond/comply just escalates their ego problem to another level. In much the same way we learn to avoid having to draw our weapons, can we not find ways to diffuse this situation? I think we need a way to respond that discourages escalation of their 'I'll create a disturbance of my own and then cite it as the reason for my harassment.' We need a way to handle cops like this in a way that deflects their deliberate confrontations.

Can 'useless information' be incriminating? How about some examples? I think the idea of wasting their time in a non-confrontational way might be a good diffuser for the jack-off cops that are deliberately trying to make a scene, provoke, insult, etc. If you ARE answering their questions, but in a useless way, say, simply stating the obvious... "What are you doing here?" "Uhm... Walking, shopping, driving" - whatever it may be? "What are you doing with that gun!?!?!?!?" "Uhm... Nothing, it would seem...." "If I had, were about to, or were committing a crime; I doubt you'd have to ask that, eh?"

I tend to be a sarcastic wise ass to people who are being dicks for no reason... So my suggestions are probably not good... ;-)

"Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

imported post

I didn't want to hijack (another) thread, but wanted to cover a subject of interest.

Yes, you can just not talk to them during an illegal detainment/seizure. But I've also seen suggested the 'go ahead and talk, but give them useless information.'

Often, annoying people will accuse you of being a jerk for standing srong and assertig your rights while a dirty pig screams, curses and threatens you. Can't you just be nice and do what the JBT tells you to, regardless of the fact that he has absolutely no right to be doing it?

When a Badge and Uniform asserts false authority, stark refusal to respond/comply just escalates their ego problem to another level. In much the same way we learn to avoid having to draw our weapons, can we not find ways to diffuse this situation? I think we need a way to respond that discourages escalation of their 'I'll create a disturbance of my own and then cite it as the reason for my harassment.' We need a way to handle cops like this in a way that deflects their deliberate confrontations.

Can 'useless information' be incriminating? How about some examples? I think the idea of wasting their time in a non-confrontational way might be a good diffuser for the jack-off cops that are deliberately trying to make a scene, provoke, insult, etc. If you ARE answering their questions, but in a useless way, say, simply stating the obvious... "What are you doing here?" "Uhm... Walking, shopping, driving" - whatever it may be? "What are you doing with that gun!?!?!?!?" "Uhm... Nothing, it would seem...." "If I had, were about to, or were committing a crime; I doubt you'd have to ask that, eh?"

I tend to be a sarcastic wise ass to people who are being dicks for no reason... So my suggestions are probably not good... ;-)

be polite &amp; keep your mouth shut. act like your a mute and you can't speak.

imported post

I didn't want to hijack (another) thread, but wanted to cover a subject of interest.

Yes, you can just not talk to them during an illegal detainment/seizure. But I've also seen suggested the 'go ahead and talk, but give them useless information.'

Often, annoying people will accuse you of being a jerk for standing srong and assertig your rights while a dirty pig screams, curses and threatens you. Can't you just be nice and do what the JBT tells you to, regardless of the fact that he has absolutely no right to be doing it?

When a Badge and Uniform asserts false authority, stark refusal to respond/comply just escalates their ego problem to another level. In much the same way we learn to avoid having to draw our weapons, can we not find ways to diffuse this situation? I think we need a way to respond that discourages escalation of their 'I'll create a disturbance of my own and then cite it as the reason for my harassment.' We need a way to handle cops like this in a way that deflects their deliberate confrontations.

Can 'useless information' be incriminating? How about some examples? I think the idea of wasting their time in a non-confrontational way might be a good diffuser for the jack-off cops that are deliberately trying to make a scene, provoke, insult, etc. If you ARE answering their questions, but in a useless way, say, simply stating the obvious... "What are you doing here?" "Uhm... Walking, shopping, driving" - whatever it may be? "What are you doing with that gun!?!?!?!?" "Uhm... Nothing, it would seem...." "If I had, were about to, or were committing a crime; I doubt you'd have to ask that, eh?"

I tend to be a sarcastic wise ass to people who are being dicks for no reason... So my suggestions are probably not good... ;-)

Could get you charged (legit or otherwise) with obstruction, interfering with police investigation, labeled as being difficult / uncooperative, etc.

It's just easier to keep one's trap shut and only request to speak with your lawyer.

imported post

Could get you charged (legit or otherwise) with obstruction, interfering with police investigation, labeled as being difficult / uncooperative, etc.

It's just easier to keep one's trap shut and only request to speak with your lawyer.

Chances are real good that if a cop has shifted into full dickhead mode, you're gonna get charged with stuff like that anyways, So I say "have fun with it"!

I rather enjoy seeing people turn 4 different shades of purple from working themselves into a lather over minor things.
Anyone remember the gameshow "Name that tune" where you had just a few notes to identify the song?
Now imagine having a competition with your firends where you see who can use the least amount of words to send someone over the edgeand getveins popping out of their forhead and frothing at the mouth.
With the proliferation of onboard recording systems, it makes the game a little safer for the contestant nowadays.

Find me one single cop that has not labeled someone as beinguncooperative or difficult, forsimply exercising their rights.

imported post

I don't want to talk to cops AT ALL, so I'm firmly in the "shut your mouth and demand a lawyer" camp.

That having been said, about ten years ago in usenet, I was a big participant in newsgroups such as rec.aviation.military. From time to time, you'd got some moonbat "anti-war" leftist gibbering incoherently about how "patriarchal" airshows should be banned. I developed a formulaic response to such crap:

"Airshows are a manifestation of western patriarchal society!"

"I like ducks! Do you like ducks?"

"Capitalist oppression must be ended!"

"What kind of ducks do you like? I like pintails!"

"The military industrial... what?"

"Mallards are pretty!"

"Wha, what are you talking about???"

"Wood ducks are nice too!"

Things never got much farther than that.

The only thing better than mocking a ******* is mocking him in such a way that he doesn't KNOW he's being mocked.

But as I said, I prefer to leave the "banter" with police to "Law &amp; Order". I've got better things to do, like watching a painting of paint drying dry.

--- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

imported post

Nutczak wrote:

Find me one single cop that has not labeled someone as beinguncooperative or difficult, forsimply exercising their rights.

This is my point. Asserting your Rights and keeping your mouth shut is all it takes to set off these kind of ****** bag cops. How dare I think I'm a citizen and not a slave! I'm looking for a way to diffuse them.

Obviously, being a wise ass isn't it.

Since refusal to respond is often what they cite as the reason for being loud and arrogant themselves, what responses can we have to rob them of that excuse yet still not give them anything useful? They cannot resort to the "he refused to cooperate" if you clearly are....

Exactly what says I have to cooperate with a cop who is breaking the law? I don't have to talk to anyone I don't want to, that includes cops. so, WE know that excuse doesn't fly. But we have to wait until after being arrested, imprisoned, charged, property seized, job lost, etc... When we do get our day in court and win, the damage is still done. Some can't afford their day in court, and have to sit in prison even though they did nothing wrong. public Pretenders don't even try to get an OCer acquitted, they are employees of the same government that committed the false arrest....

Anyways, you get my point... I respect and participate in the 'shut the hell up' method. I'm just wondering if we can brainstorm something that doesn't fuel them instead.

Would it be possible to merely state the obvious, what anyone can plainly observe? You wouldn't be giving up any information, becasue you are only stating what is already observable. But, I think you'd have to choose your words carefully.

"Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

imported post

SNIPI'm just wondering if we can brainstorm something that doesn't fuel them instead.

I have had success during a police encounter with this general phrasing:

"No offense, officer. I know you are just doing your job. But, I do not consent to _____."

Also, I have had success with annoyed and angry people with using a bored tone of voice. So, for a police encounter with a pushy cop who is getting annoyed at my polite verbal refusals, I might say, (bored), "Oh, officer. You and I both know there is nothing wrong with me exercising my rights." (repeat bored tone of voice as needed, people usually calm down).

Do understand, though. That some people (cops, too) just are not going to resolve and drop their hostility. It may be a pose to get you to react, like a Drill Instructor. Or, it may be genuine and so deep-seated that he isn't going to let go of it. If this last is the case, there isn't much you can do but ride it out, remain calm.

Keep in mind that some cops deliberately try to incite a reaction that gives them an excuse to "go hands on" as they say, make an arrest, press charges. One cop-turned-attorney-and-author I have read recommends grabbing your trousers at your pockets, and closing your eyes to ride it out. This keeps cop spit-spatter out of your eyes and ensures you don't raise your hands which can be interpreted as preparing to strike the officer--assaulting a police officer charges would follow, after the bruises and lumps from the arrest.

I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

imported post

The problem with giving wise-ass responses to cops, beside irritating them, is that you are at risk of saying something that will cause you to be arrested for a crime. We've seen several prominent folks arrested, prosecuted, and jailed for lying to the cops even when they did nothing else. Give some wisecrack answer that contradicts a previous wisecrack response and there you are.

"Am I free to go?" is about all you need to say. If I get a "Yes" or no response at all, I start walking away. If I get told "No" then I respond with "I assert my Miranda rights" and stay shut until my lawyer shows up. It's difficult to do when you are being humiliated and feel like your body and possessions are being violated. The way I deal with that is to think happy thoughts about the lawsuit I'm going to file after this is all over with.

stay safe.

skidmark

"He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

"No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
----Allahpundit

imported post

SNIPI'm just wondering if we can brainstorm something that doesn't fuel them instead.

I have had success during a police encounter with this general phrasing:

"No offense, officer. I know you are just doing your job. But, I do not consent to _____."

Also, I have had success with annoyed and angry people with using a bored tone of voice. So, for a police encounter with a pushy cop who is getting annoyed at my polite verbal refusals, I might say, (bored), "Oh, officer. You and I both know there is nothing wrong with me exercising my rights." (repeat bored tone of voice as needed, people usually calm down).

Do understand, though. That some people (cops, too) just are not going to resolve and drop their hostility. It may be a pose to get you to react, like a Drill Instructor. Or, it may be genuine and so deep-seated that he isn't going to let go of it. If this last is the case, there isn't much you can do but ride it out, remain calm.

Keep in mind that some cops deliberately try to incite a reaction that gives them an excuse to "go hands on" as they say, make an arrest, press charges. One cop-turned-attorney-and-author I have read recommends grabbing your trousers at your pockets, and closing your eyes to ride it out. This keeps cop spit-spatter out of your eyes and ensures you don't raise your hands which can be interpreted as preparing to strike the officer--assaulting a police officer charges would follow, after the bruises and lumps from the arrest.

This is good perspective. I'm quite familiar with the human filth that try to incite a reaction.

"Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

imported post

skidmark wrote:

The problem with giving wise-ass responses to cops, beside irritating them, is that you are at risk of saying something that will cause you to be arrested for a crime. We've seen several prominent folks arrested, prosecuted, and jailed for lying to the cops even when they did nothing else. Give some wisecrack answer that contradicts a previous wisecrack response and there you are.

"Am I free to go?" is about all you need to say. If I get a "Yes" or no response at all, I start walking away. If I get told "No" then I respond with "I assert my Miranda rights" and stay shut until my lawyer shows up. It's difficult to do when you are being humiliated and feel like your body and possessions are being violated. The way I deal with that is to think happy thoughts about the lawsuit I'm going to file after this is all over with.

stay safe.

skidmark

This has been my policy so far, in public. But I have had several instances of being flat-out ambushed/attacked, and it has taught me that, yes, you can fight back. When they pull that kind of thing, they do so with no evidence/no witnesses to avoid incriminating themselves. As long as you win, you go home.

I want to substitute that learned response. But it is hard to unlearn when the total of the violent encounters in your lifetime have been almost exclusively with meth-head cops. I've come to immediately assume a defensible posture when any cop approaches me.

I want an alternative, and a way to unlearn these habits BEFORE I move to an OC state. I don't want to be 'that guy.' It would be bad for all of us.

"Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams