WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY CALLED THE WAR AGAINST DEMOCRACY by john pilger. Instead of sucking the dix of the rich for the dolla dolla billz yo he was like i need to sort out my shit and hook up my people with the love. Basically in all western capitalist democracy its all cream and for a socialist democracy the focus is on the ppl.

So 180.000 people died during his time or did he killed so many without a war appearing around?
When i google that number with Chavez i end with all the stuff about 180k jobs 180k students and so on but deaths? You have to explain that not even assad in syria managed such a number that there is a huge proxy/civil war going on.
You give him the fault for any person who died during his time?

Dude the crime and homicide rate in venezuela is high. High in way its not acceptable anymore.
We dont have to argue about that. I know its diffulct to lower that rate in such region. There is not much the goverment can do better.

I just dont know/get it why some people blame one president for all the deaths which happend in the country. Like if someone in germany dies out of a random knife between 2 people i blame merkel for that. I just want an explination. No doubt Mr. Chavez did some wrong things like pretty much any president all around the world makes mistakes. But to say chavez killed 180.000 needs an explination that i want to hear from him. Because i dont get it.

Well to be a dictator you need something and thats a dictatorship. In that country people voted him into power. Thats a slight difference. In that way hitler wasnt a real dictator either. Does that let him look any better for what he did? Surely not.
Just a reminder how much democracy and dictatorship have in common. If someone gets to power there is not much difference in what he can do.

I know what you mean but yeah lets talk in 10years about that again. Let's hope things get better. It looks like another deafeat for socialism

But that has not much to do with homicdes/murdering.
is 45 deaths per 100.000
Thats around 5.2% a bit higher than the us with 4.2%http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/venezuela/homicide..
When i look around venezuela on the map every second country has such a high rate or even higher. Thats not unsual for that area with all the drugs i guess.

So thats what you wanted to say. To be honest i dont know how much influence a president can have on such a rate. Yes he can stack up social security but law enforcement cant stop deaths look at the US. They have a lot of law enforcement and the homicide rate is still the highest of the industrial countries and that by far. What you are saying is its chavez fault for not succesfully fighting against the crime. Hes one person not an army. If you tell me how chavez made it murders easier to do crime okay then. Arent guns completly banned like in mexico since 2012 and that came from chavez?
How did he helped the murders/crimes? Otherwise you cant blame him for all the deaths. He might could have done a better job of preventing it but in the end everyone can say that about pretty much any topic. You have to explain that to me. Can i blame merkel when someone kills another one with a knife a gun or even by bare hands?

Now i understand the situation a bit better.
But you have to remember no matter when or what you will never be able to have a crime free country. They seriously did something wrong in the prison system and that may have lead to more crime. But thats not only the mission of one man. Its the mission of a lot. And some of them like the police men are even corrupted. No wonder with all the drugs and oil it could also damage the country. legalizing some of the drugs may have been an positive impact to a greater economy. I dont know man.

Good HUGO CHAVEZ? dude are u even aware of what happens outside of EUROPE? cuz to be honest i fully expect you to say:"NO" cuz i don't know a lot about EU but a thing I do know is that Venezuela hasn't made any fucking decent progress as a country because of this man...

The worst part is that there is a lot of people who followed Chavez' philosophy and I'm sure will try to keep his legacy alive, which only makes me think venezuelan people will get stuck with politician garbage for another decade or more.

Maybe you should educate us because your post gives us 0 informations about the bad stuff. 0 information About progress you are talking about. I just know a few facts. Venezuela run a communism style system. Which means work for a lot of people made. Yes with goverment force. Food for a lot of people and state cheap oil. Which supports these things i mentioned above. Now i want to hear the bad site.

Hey i dont know much about that country i just watched one documentary from a media group i trust which had objective work done in the past. I mean which political system these days is perfect? Is the canadian way better? Hey i just curious. Dont take any offense. I bet any political system/ideology has its weak side.

This ain't the place for a political discussion but I will tell you this the system used in NorthAmerica is quite effective and to some degree fair unlike the one implemented in Venezuela,Cuba and the likes...

Well our systems in the west give anyone a lot more options/opportunities but fair? We could argue about that if we look at our celebreties and some other figures in the rich class where the intelligence doesnt really fit with the pocket. I bet you can agree to some point. But yeah you are right abou´t that. HLTV is clearly not the place to discuss such topics.

It's an off topic thread, so, yes, it is the right place for any kind of discussion. So that's your super information about Hugo Chavez? Do you even live in Venezuela or something like that? Or you just accept everything the media tells you to?
I'm not saying Hugo Chavez was good or bad or anything (cause honestly I don't care), I'm just pointing out your stupidity.

I do have information about the country politics and poor state since I have close acquaintances that belong there not gonna be specific since it ain't gonna make a difference who they are but with this being said if you claim yourself not to know anything about it then don't come at me saying my point isn't valid because you couldn't possibly know where I'm gathering my info from so no...its not from somewhere as shallow and incomplete as the media ;) not even interested in the topic then don't even post worthless replies kid.

Hu? You give a presidents fault for all the homicdes are happening? Then whats with obama then in the US? the total is over 30.000. In terms of percetange to population venezuela is a lot higher but you have to explain that to me. For any gang death you say its the presidents fault?

chavez ruled venezuela for 13 years. having one of the two or three highest homicide rates in the world is a sign of a country being out of control, and that can of course be partially blamed on the politicians in charge. I shouldn't have to explain why that is in a wall of text (nor do I want to), so get back to me if you need a 101 lecture in society.

whoa whoa whoa, Did you guys think he was a good guy, he's only killed thousands of his own country men and slaughtered everyone who disagreed with him. I've been to quatemala and even there ppl are scared to death of that man, Thank God he's gone now.

Well, which was the happiest episode of our country then, according to you?

The fact that you considerer the 25th of april as one regular/not that important mark in our history amazes me, I can tell you. Im not so sure if you do know whats like living in a dictatorship (Neither do I) or even what is it like when you're extremely opressed, and I seriously hope not to discover it, nor you, nor any of the post 1974 portuguese population

25th April was an important event in our recent history, yet it has lead us to, in my honest opinion, worse political conditions. People say Salazar was horrible, despite being economically a genius, and that he promoted ignorance and was against technological improvements. Mate, I think it's safe to say that 80% of our biggest and more charismatic buildings were constructed with European Funds. People complain about the so called oppression because nowadays they feel free to say whatever comes in their minds. Sure people can read now, but they're still ignorant as fuck and I'm ashamed of the new generations. Our future is doomed.

If wasnt USA , prolly Europe would never had this monetary crisis . Remember one thing , the only good thing that USA made trough this years , that directly affects Portugal , was the IWW and IIWW even though they profited bilions with the money they borrowed to the reconstruction of Europe .

Can you blame them from proffiting? Apart from that, USA contributed to our decolonization which led to the 25th of April... Furthermore, you claimed that USA killed too many people, well, we did aswell.

Historically speaking Portugal probably killed double or triple the people that the USA as, since we are a much older nation and we where part of the crusades, discoveries and colonialism. We basically killed people from every continent except for Antarctica (maybe).
We're just bad at handling money, but we are very good at killing people.

This thought is the imperialist advertising against the countries that dont like with them. Like abuse in afghan women, perhaps dont happen the same in Saudi Arabia? But as they are partners in business dont publish that

This thought came from someone who lived next door to Venezuela and knew quite few of them. He starved his own ppl and stole countless millions from foreign aid to fund his career. A rigged election is no different than a dictatorship. He starved his ppl so he could run the country. The effect go well past quatemala to.

All of that is sooooooooooooo subjective. Your logic, tho. And since an imperialistic world can't be reversed as you said, why is making people suffer justified? Could you explain me that? I'm not saying it is the same, just showing how wrong your logic is.

You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. Last newspaper I got in my hands was many years ago, and I don't believe in the TV either. I only believe in Venezuelan close friends who have been living there for around 8 years already. If that isn't enough, I'll fly there anytime just to show the world how Venezuelan ppl lives.

So discussing who killed more people, if CIA or Chavez, to establish who is better, which is as far as I concern, useless, is a serious topic to be discussed by mature human beings? Sounds more like the f0rest > Neo threads discussed by kids back in 2009.

You cleary don't know shit about SA besides newspapper/TV.
Waiting for Evo Morales worlds Departure, then Lula + 80% of Brazilians Politicians, then we'll have a better South America in every single term.

Well newspapers tell us its a shithole with a way too high crimerate such as unemployment. A political system which doesn fit the west. Like the union of the BRIC states. A big drug cartel. And on the positive side: Nice for tourism/culture and landscape. Is that the correct image of SA?

Crimerate - Depends on the location you live, also its quite unlucky to get robbed in serval locations, same happens in EU, 5 friends of mine got robbed and haven't been robbed here, so whatever. Unemployment rate ? Only for those who wanna things easier without fight for it. I haven't got a single month without a job in my entire life(currently soft. eng).
Answering your question, the problem is deeper then you can even imagine. We have taxes almost as higher as Sweeden ones, the governament invest about U$XXX BI on infrastructure/year, this money just desappear. Who do this ? Our governament (In case of Venezuela, Chaves) So yes, basically yes, you guys don't shit about what is really wrong here due to the fucking manipulated media.... sad but true

Was it more than in the US with the 9 trillion US dollar from the federal reserve? I doubt it :D I just repeated what the media told me and that doesnt mean i trust it. The problems seem to be over and over again the same. And that all around the world.
Its always the same. Goverment is bad. Goverment is corrupted. Taxes are always bad and so on. Even thought the folk always votes them into office and dont want change. Hey i dont judge you. But sadly its the same thing i pretty much hear from every second country.

Your Gov't doesn't take away millions and millions every month from the pension system (YES, the fucking pension system, they already broke the Federal Reserve and the Central Bank of the Republic with some other scams) to buy all the TV rights for Bundesliga? Oh well, it seems a good idea, at least we have the commercials to get the money back. NO! LETS PUT SOME PROPAGANDA! THEY WILL VOTE FOR US AGAIN IN 4 YEARS THANKS TO IT! I MEAN, WE ARE GIVING THEM FOOTBALL!

Okay that hurt. But thats correct again. Our goverment funds news/media agencies and these start to cut budget for educational programs to continue paying these bloody bundesliga licences.
We share a lot of problems as i mentioned. Btw its every 7 years in germany which could make it worse the damage you could do in that time. But hey in japan they vote every once in a year a new Prime Minister and they have a huge debt but yeah which country doesnt have one these days.

Everyone has the right to express an opinion as far as I know. If Germans don't have rights because of a crazy bastard sending millions of jews to the afterlife, better send them to the afterlife too, that would apply with your logic.

I'm so tired of people bashing Germans, wtf has Vx04 have to do with Adolf Hitler? He wasn't even German...

I don't love him. I'm just stating a fact that he helped USA when the sandy Storm was in New york.
You're a shitty spic brazilian troll kid whos on the internet 24/7 making up stories and threads and stalking people.

It's 3am in your country, yet you still bumping/making threads since in the morning.
I guess you dont have a life, we understand but keep the trolling to a minimum

RIP Hugo Chavez!
Shame on those americans who say openly about Hugo's tiranism against countrymen. America is a big piece of shit, they think only about oil and resources. Fags in government. Pseudo-liberty.

I would love to give you a lot of links about why so many people is sure that he died in December, but they're all in Spanish.

Many doctors (some were personal medics of Chavez) say that Chavez was artificially-alive since December 30th, they kept him alive and telling the people that he was recovering and being threated so the next president could gain popularity.

There were fake pictures (proof that they're fake are all over the internet) about Chavez in the hospital with his daughters smiling and talking (the day before these pictures, the goverment said that Chavez was receiving artificial respiration directlly through his trachea, how was he smiling and talking then?)

Venezuela should be a high HDI country considering that it has a lot of mineral resources, has been independent for 200 years already and is not land locked. Too bad that stupid politicians relied too much on oil and didn't enhance other industries.

When Venezuela got shit loads of money during the 70's government should have enhanced the mining, wood, metal and food industries and also different varies of power productions. Now they have wasted hundreads of billions(at least) of money to expensive imports and haven't exported/produced even close to that amount.

Venezuela is good example how stupid politicians can miss or fuck up a great potential.

Has saudi arabia, qater and co in the east have a high HDi/GDP?
There a examples on the african continent as well.
In terms of export and import from what i read food was always cheaper to import than making by themself. Even the goverment supported that. About resources. Well they sell their oil wood and metal. They are just more strict when big cooperations want to take more than they are allowed to be and they regualte the market with goverment force. Which i dont really support to be honest.
But is the commonwealth such a good example like canada or australia?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM3W5XBrVEA
Or as i mentioned the eastern saudi states beside united arab emirates.

I know history and economical, political and geological situation of every single country on earth and I'm laughing for your show off.

"Has saudi arabia, qater(qatar*) and co in the (middle*)east have a high HDi/GDP?(what? I didnt talk about GDP because it's a shit indicator)"

Why should they have? Oh and by they way, Saudi Arabia has high HDI and Qatar has VERY HIGH HDI. Those were your good examples? Heh.

I was talking about Venezuela's economical situation all the way from the 1920's(beginning of the oil boom) to the 1980's economical collapse. You clearly don't even think when you read. You just suppose when you reply. Or you are just too ignorant about the subject. You know how world and especially Venezuela and rest South America looked back then in terms of global marketing?

I give you one tip: don't come to show off if you are not familiar with the subject. You just make yourself look stupid.

Okay qater with 37 place is kinda high okay since its not that huge its kinda obvious easier to manage. I take that back but saudi arabia with 56? While venezuela is on 73. Come on the saudis produce nearly 5 times as much oil
In global market the region all around venezuela was never stable. That has also something to do with the crimerate and other forbidden resources like drugs. In saudi arabia you just struck it down with pure military force if some jihadist thought they had something to say and then it was over. Should i keep going with the sharia law?

To be honest i am not familiar with venezuela so thats why stop talking now as you said. But not even you had an solution beside just to trash talk it and blame the usual stuff called politics.

The point in my post wasn't to give any solutions for Venezuelas current situation. I just let ignorant people know why Venezuela is where it is right now.

In fact I typoed in my first post because I meant to say that Venezuela should be a very high HDI country, not just a high HDI. (Venezuela is a high HDI country, which is because HDI is pretty inaccurate and stupid indicator as well, but still the best to use).

High HDI doesn't mean that country has a high standard of living. HDI lists the countries from #1 to #187 and every country must rank somewhere. Because of that there are countries with bad standard of living in the high HDI category.

The high HDI category is very missleading. From the eyes of a First World inhabitant at least. If you are German then I totally understand your fallacy. You look HDI rankings too much. It tells very few things about the country actually. You can't say which country is better if one is ranked as 56 and one as 73.

HDI is not a truth, it just gives a chief image of the country. I only use it by using the categories, which is smart in my opinion.

He was a nice guy, had balls to stand against USA... Btw communism is nt bad... Its a "coaching class" from poverty to rich.. once the country becomes rich they change to democracy... When china becomes democracy... World will kneel to them.

One little correction, if you allow. Communism is purely theoretical sh*t often used by dictators to brainwash lumpen marginals' heads and gain political power. North Korea, Vietnam, Soviet Union, whatever, commies are always the same. Everywhere. Slavery, executions, gulags...

what about China? Communist countries have elections too. Its not like u cannot contest in elections. But the point m trying to make is. China did what India didnt do, for the amount of diversity we have its literally impossible for communist to run the country, but if it had happened after the independance, we would have been more disciplined and powerful by now compared to China. Govt has ultimate power, no fucktard protests. .
That may sound like unipolar, but its better, If you have a team, you need a leader same goes for nation too, better to throw it all on one man than have 100 men who dont care jackshit :/

Well 99% would to arrogant even for him. And 55 looks like fair. Same problems we have now here, in Ukraine. My parents lived in ussr so I know what I'm talking about. Communism, job for everyone blah-blah-blah. Bullshit. Dictatorship, poverty, censorship.