Should Germany play a bigger role in European defence?

Germany’s allies want it to do more. In 2011, Poland’s then-Foreign Minister, Radosław Sikorski, wrote that he feared German power less than its inactivity. More recently, US President Donald Trump has openly berated German Chancellor Angela Merkel for failing to meet NATO targets on defence spending.

Germany’s military ombudsman has warned the German army is “short of almost everything”. There are a record low number of personnel, not enough planes and tanks, and equipment is almost uniformly outdated and shoddy. Yet the security demands on Germany are increasing; from the bombing campaign against ISIS in Syria, to peacekeeping operations in Mali, to the NATO rapid reaction force in Eastern Europe, to managing the refugee crisis at home.

What do our readers think? We had a comment from Marcel arguing that German military spending is a waste of money. In his view, it would be much better to invest in public services such as healthcare or education budgets. Is he right?

To get a response we spoke to journalist Paul Taylor, who recently authored a report for our sister think tank Friends of Europe on Germany stepping “out of the shadow of its past and [taking] more responsibility for defending Europe and itself”. What would he say?

The logical conclusion of that attitude would be: If you don’t spend anything on defence, then you can still be well-defended. I don’t think most people believe that. From the perspective of other nations: Germany is a rich country, and yet it is a country that is defended by others. From the nuclear umbrella of the Americans, to French operations overseas against the “Islamic state”, etc. Germany cannot be allowed to be a free-rider.

Germany has assumed responsibility in terms of political and economic power. [Former German] President Gauck put this very eloquently at the Munich Security Conference, and this responsibility must be fulfilled. The [Social Democratic Party of Germany] did not win a single vote with their anti-defence campaign. This means that the German public understands that security has a price. I don’t think Germany will increase its defence spending to the [NATO target of] two percent [of GDP], or, at least, it will take a very long time to get there. But if they get to 1.5 or 1.6 percent, that would already be good. Then the question becomes how does Germany spend that money? German money can also be spent through Europe, via a common framework. For example, an “armament fund”, which would not frighten Germany’s neighbours.

Should Germany play a bigger role in European defence? Is Germany a “free rider” on security, and should the German government invest more in its armed forces? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

If tge EU gets its army it will behave like the USA is behaving today. We will see Fritz, Jaques, Fernando etc. manning some checkpoint in Tehran or whatever the future wars will be. This is no self defence army. This is a army for empire. If you want peace you have to reject this project.

lets see, in Greece i have spent 21 months of my life in army, because of the constant turkish threat. the minimum should be the same waste of resources and time. but as nobody wants them to have army again, they should pay an annual fee to all the rest.

As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack

Fabian Hoffmann , Portugal has certainly much less corruption than the EU and above all, we do not legalise corruption like the EU does. Also, Portugal is a country and thus it should have an army to protect itself from foreign corrupt and anti-democratic institutions like the EU (which IS NOT a country).

That day will come. The EU, as a german puppet, will be the reason of another major war in Europe. Mark my words. On that day, don’t blame others when Germany loses it again and becomes devided in several…again. it is your fault. We tried to warn you.

As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack

Fabian Hoffmann , Portugal has certainly much less corruption than the EU and above all, we do not legalize corruption like the EU does, under the name of “lobbying”. Also, Portugal is a country and thus it should have an army to protect itself from foreign corrupt and anti-democratic institutions like the EU (which IS NOT a country), if necessary.

“Το δις εξαμαρτείν, ουκ ανδρός σοφού !” : To make the same mistake again, it’s not proper for a wise man. We Greeks already suffer from the Third German “Attack” (after the World Wars), by economic means this time, and ofcourse we are strongly Against any bigger military involvement or role of the country (Germany) that destroyed us…and never compensate us !

As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack

As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack

As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack

As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack

Your land? You europhiles are insane.
No one needs an “EU Army” because the EU is not a country, on the contrary, it is a useless, corrupt and anti-democratic institution that should be bombed for the crime it did against it’s own member states since 1993.

Why not? If its already playing political, Social and Ecoonomic roles? Is there any major Power country that has a clean history? If that was the case USA shouldnt be owning Nuclear Weapons because they already used them against humans in Japan.

Why not?
1- Europe does not need.
2- Europe is not a country.
3- Europe is not the EU.
4- The EU does not need it.
5- The EU is not a country.
6- The EU is not Germany.
7- Germany is not trustworthy.
8- No one asked for it.

Hebron Tutan Khufu , the EU is a useless and corrupt institution made at the immage of germany. Of Couse you can not speak about the EU without speaking of Germany, yet, the EU is still not Germany. Neither Germany nor the EU are trustworthy and thus the answer is still no, and if Germany get’s on it’s hight horse, maybe the world should reconseider to devide it in several again.

Hebron Tutan Khufu , the EU is a useless and corrupt institution made at the immage of Germany. Of course you can not speak about the EU without speaking of Germany, yet, the EU is still not Germany. Neither Germany nor the EU are trustworthy and thus the answer is still no and if Germany get’s on it’s hight horse again, maybe the world should reconsider to devide it again. About the EU, well, let me just add I think the UK did the smart choice. Others will follow!

Well if in your Opinion you dont accept the existance of EU, then we cant engage in a productive debate. i think you have your own issues but if we look at the factors that led to the formation of EU there is no way you could brand it useless. Yes it has its challenges as any other union but it has more postive influence than the few negativity its facing today.

Your wrong, the EU does not have challanges, the EU is a challange.
The reason why the EU was created in 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht was to spread corruption and benefit Germany over all others. So, yes, prettry much useless, in fact, harmful. The worst mistake my country ever did was to sign the Maastricht Treaty and I can only hope we follow the steps of our good olf british friends.

Your wrong, the EU does not have challanges, the EU is a challange.
The reason why the EU was created in 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht was to spread corruption and benefit Germany over all others. So, yes, prettry much useless, in fact, harmful. The worst mistake my country ever did was to sign the Maastricht Treaty and I can only hope we follow the steps of our good old british friends.

Ja Fabian i realise he is One of those right wing Nationalists who believe in divisions. One problem they don’t know is that the divisions” nationalism” they agitate for will effect their countries more. Look what is happening in Spain now, the Catalans want a break away, he is talking of British only to forget their will no more strong UK if Scotland, Wales, Ireland also claim their independence/ break away. It will spread to France. Any one who believes that small countries can perform better with bigger countries like China, USA, Russia should keep on dreaming. You have more power and say if you sit on any table with these big players as EU other than when you come as mere Portugal. No one wants to know even what Portugal says on world matters why? Bse they have no muscle power to influence anything alone, neither do Spain or other EU countries.

Lads, my country has 900 years. Your “no one cares” is as useless as the EU, in fact, the EU brought poverty, crisis, loss of power and authoritarianism. To pount this out is to be a lucid person, not a nationalist.

Lads, my country has 900 years. Your “no one cares” is as useless as the EU, in fact, the EU brought poverty, crisis, loss of power and authoritarianism. To point this out is to be a lucid person, not a nationalist.

You’ve got certainly more to share José with a Portuguese-speaking country(Brazil, Mozambique…) than with a german migrant, for sure! With over 240 millions in the world, it’ll better for you than to speak european, or american, like you want!

Me and my wife never knew our grandfathers because of ww2. Memories are still to painful. I would prefer germans keep their butt in Germany. In spielhosen, not military uniformes…

EMMANUEL GAFFRONOctober 19th, 2017

We need a european army, but the point is taht we have only one single army in Europe, the french one. But this army can’t do everything by herself… for other european countries. So yes, germany as well as other european people schould increase their participation to a global european defence! Of course!

We need a european army, but the point is taht we have only one single army in Europe, the french one. But this army can’t do everything by herself… for other european countries. So yes, germany as well as other european people schould increase their participation to a global european defence! Of course!

Mitsos Daniel , sorry lad. I love my country to much. I would never trade it for yours and I’m certainly not willing to allow a corrupt, anti-democratic, capitalist sh…t like the EU to have any saying about it or my future. PS: If you don’t like Trump, why the hell are you living in his country instead of being in your asian country?

And Rémi Martin to answer your questions. Yes the EU is about peace. Still we have around 30 national armies. So a EU army wouldn’t mean there is more military but rather less because we would need less… Right now the eu army would be the biggest or second biggest in the world..

Furthermore a EU army would mean the end of national armies in Europe and a war in Europe would be even less possible! And no José your war isn’t coming!!!

DEFENSE of what ???? Who is going to attack/invade Europe ??? Please dont tell us the “Russians are coming” that nonsense is old and a joke .. Europe has no enemies, there is no point in military its all about SPENDING BILLIONS on weapons and armies that are not needed, fear is CREATED by the same people who sell all the weapons, its a ginat scam.

The reality of an EU army has already been decided by the EU’s inner circle- JCJ is only its executor!

It should alarm EU critiques! Hiding behind Europe (CoE 47) but meaning EU (27) is deliberate ambiguous to capture the last major competence from its members in its formally “economic” block!

Nobody wants another war in Europe, nor an EU 27 army to enforce the Lisbon treaty in Euroland! It would need 27 new referenda.

Any western global defense system can only be achieved belonging to & strengthening NATO and inviting the rest of the 47 CoE members- not by isolating the EU Members from NATO.

The enigmatic description referring to a “European defense (force)”- while meaning an EU army- is EU’s typical coercion strategy- “step by step”! To offer these “democratic discussions” here is all smoke & mirror- only to “harmonize” the minds of 500 mio EU voters.

Yes the EU is about peace. Still we have around 30 national armies. So a EU army wouldn’t mean there is more military but rather less because we would need less… Right now the eu army would be the biggest or second biggest in the world..

Furthermore a EU army would mean the end of national armies in Europe and a war in Europe would be even less possible! And no José your war isn’t coming!!!

“a EU army would mean the end of national armies in Europe and a war in Europe would be even less possible!”, sure? I wonder what would happened if China, NK or another land(why not USA?) would deceide to attack EU? I wouldn’t give my blood for an imaginary land, people who doesn’t exist! You’re a fool!

Local militias for defensive purposes mingling with the local population would be more suitable for detecting and handling terrorism and for maintening order within our borders. We do not want an other empire and new wars…

Wake up, we’re in a economical war, each country is trying to defend his own interests, there’s no union in this EU; if there should be one, can you tell me a common point between all the members? I don’t see nothing, history, culture, language, nothing! You’ve got the same ideas as a guy called Adolf in the 40’s in Germoney! Unite Europe, your construction is racist!

Not so crazy about Germany “taking the leading role” as in most continental affairs, but rather like to see them coming with their fair share (2%) on the table. Defence and security are not for free or “by default”.

What’s on offer? Is there a European defence concept which is different from NATO strategies? The military tasks are shifting and increasingly unarmed. Maybe an army is not the best answer for tasks such as the rescue of refugees, defending against cyber-attacks and even guaranteeing security during peace-keeping operations and anti-terrorist measures. There already exists a non-military European rapid reaction force. Based on their competences more tasks could be taken over by their specialists without all the problems the involvement of armed forces can cause.

I think that after ww2, Germany have some restrictions regarding the military troops and weapons. I know that also the Constitution of the German Federation had some statements in this respect… Hitler’s spirit is still alive there. ESPECIALLY NOW, WHEN FASCISTS ARE AGAIN IN THE BUNDESTAG… Brrrr!!!

I think that after ww2, Germany have some restrictions regarding the military troops and weapons. I know that also the Constitution of the German Federation had some statements in this respect… Hitler’s spirit is still alive there, even sleepy. ESPECIALLY NOW, WHEN FASCISTS ARE AGAIN IN THE BUNDESTAG… Brrrr!!!

As it is now, Germany as no legitimicy to rule us all, without a UE parliament, a constitution or people to vote for representatives. And History is very present in our minds. So even if is a rich country (and we know why) capable of support one army, I don´t want to see it taking the leading role in defense. Never again, please.

I think many here misunderstand the debate…it says should Germany play a bigger role in European defence…you can be for or against that… However the question was not: Shall Germany invade all it’s neighbors…

When you ask someone if Germany should step up, you are exactly asking if they want to be invaded by it. Germany is not a trustworthy nation and that is why it should never be allowed to have an army, let alone to use it and enlarge it.

Fabian, same thing, maybe just with less casualties… The idea of EU was great, at the begining, but when you see how it works and it can’t be change, noone has more hope in it, it’s just a desillusion! The day EU will collapse, and it’ll come, Germoney will have seriously social problems, I’m working there, I know what I’m talking about, my collegues said it themselves…

Restructure of NATO, Trump, will leave the need for an EU army. However, is that in the interests of the EU citizen? Do you want to pay through the nose for another take over of Europe by Germany? If you think yes, then be ready for conscription, which includes women, Israeli style right across each EU country. And it will be run by Germans. Germany likes power.

The UK is leaving this union and will not be ready to save the continent yet again.

Then, the right question is: are the western and northern states of the EU interested in spending money to develop military faciities in the east and south? To mobilize and relocate troops there. I don’t think that the Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Sea are the enemies, do they?!

Potential enemies are those from the east and south, don’t they? Iran and Rusia, we like it or not. I personally think Rusia should be a friend of Europe. Rusia was a partner , more than enemy, for Europe during the last 3 centuries. But, after the invasion of the eastern Ucraine and the presence of the red army in eastern Moldavia, there still is a military stress. Still the major risk is the religious war, muslims are rising (Iran, even Turkey…), so we have to keep forces in the south (Greece, Italy) for just in case.

History doesn’t never repeat itself, it stutters only… I don’t need an enemy, the war is economical today, the others wars are made outthere from Europe, it isn’t better! For the rest, I won’t give my blood for an imaginary country or an imaginary people, Europe is peace, they said, Europe doesn’t need a defence if it isn’t able to keep peace on her borders.

There are some logical cracks in your statement. First of all, yes – the modern war is more subtle, beginning with soft phases: cybernetic attacks, economical strategies, hybrid war in one sentence, but the other part will not accept such a defeat! Will counterstrike with full arsenal, if the economic and financial loss is substantial. We love to think that war is something from “a galaxy far far away”, but war is already in Europe, from London to Stockholm, from Munich to Barcelona, from Nice to Brussels… Don’t forget! It’s not the total war, but still a war. Our armies are involved right now in war, even still outside our teritory (Afganistan, Syria, Iraq…). Europe, like it or not, is our country, wich is in danger because from many point of vues (economical and climatically mostly) it is a place with some magnetism for others with less chances to survive on medium and long term (50-100 years) in the not so distant future. If we don’t work together, not a single european nation will resist. It’s a new kind of cruciade, not necessarily conected with our religion.

“Europe is our country”, sorry, I’m speaking french, not european! Give me just a common point between all the members in your racist organisation! In the 40’s, a guy called Adolf in Germaney, had the same idea of a united Europe, I don’t really believe in it! You don’y unite several peoples with a flag, a common currency and laws they didn’t never vote for!

With such a point of vue the Martins will be a lost specie in less than a century. Or, they will “adapt” and speak magrebian-arab, wear burka and “bend the knee” on o small carpet three times a day. Best wishes, Rehm ibn Mar Thain

Romania gives more money than takes from EU, because of our impotent politicians. Most of us we spend money on vacations in your countries, many romanians are living in your countries and pay taxes for your gouverments… I think you benefit more from our resources than ourselves. Our doctors and nurses take care of your elders (after we have spent a lot of money to educate them), our men build your cities, you even fuck our girls, forced to prostitute themselves just for living… You are still crying that gipsyies are beggers and theves, telling they are romanian, wich is not true… Even so, neither the gypsies do not put bombs and do not kill poor people, women and children with trucks… Romania and France are sister countries. We are (still) proud of that. You should too! If you count all the romanians with major contribution to french art, culture and science, you will find an important number, From Traian Vuia to Henry Coanda, from Brancusi to Eugen Ionesco… Writers, doctors, artists. We are proud of them. You should too!

Yes, Germany should play a bigger role and meet its obligations towards its partners. It has the most seats in the European Parliament due to having the biggest population, likewise, it should spend the most money on defence.

Marcel’s way of thinking is silly, but excusable for someone who’s used to living in a peaceful Europe. Yes, let’s invest our resources in public health and other non-military issues. This way, one day, we’ll be surprised defenseless if something happens. Oh, wait, we already have. The Ukraine crisis caught Europe by surprise. Suddenly, with a rising Russian military power and Trump putting under question NATO’s article V we suddenly realized Europeans can’t defend themselves. How silly of us. Yet another legacy of the Cold War, when we used to have Americans do that part of the job for us. But what will happen when they won’t be around ?

Without citizen representation, free speech, freedom from censorship and illegal surveillance, recognition of the rights of the individual and subsidiarity – what values does the EU represent? All of the above must be safeguarded if the European Project is to continue to have meaning

I sense scare mongering…thinking back about Adolf… past
Germany has come a long way from those times… and no longer is a belligerent nation…
if it was down to me I would scrap all of the military arsenals in the world…
and , if some like North Korea…Iran…and now Russia threat the world future it’ s only thanks to mr.cowboy Donald who has recently struck a arm deal with the Saudis worth 100blns$$$$
how about this for peace in the world.

Rémi the EU has to protect its boarders and have a strong voice internationally. In the east Mediterranean Sea the EU has discovered huge gas/oil reserves. Already trouble making and violent nations such as the Turks who never respect international law and country boarders are ready to attack and take control of the EUs wealth! Who is going to protect all this if the EU has no military power??

Strong voice internationally? Nice joke, just a puppet of Uncle Sam, nothing else, to shut the voice of 28 countries at the same time, I wouldn’t had done better! EU’s wealth??? From which country please? Did you once believe we want to give our life for your problem with the Turks? No, please… You don’t simply unite peoples with a flag, a common currency and laws they didn’t vote for, it’s a bit more complicated.

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