quote:People having abortions should pay penalties to the state and serve jail time.

if abortion was illegal it wouldn't be as simple as abortion x years or months in prison. Rather it would be based on many things. A women who is rapped would get a lesser sentence then someone who aborts a 15 week old fetus. Culpability changes in these cases and would have an impact.

asurob1Florida State FanOn the edge of the galaxyMember since May 200916049 posts

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re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by asurob1 on 1/29/13 at 2:38 pm to catholictigerfan)

quote:if abortion was illegal it wouldn't be as simple as abortion x years or months in prison. Rather it would be based on many things. A women who is rapped would get a lesser sentence then someone who aborts a 15 week old fetus. Culpability changes in these cases and would have an impact.

How sporting of you CTF...because a woman getting an abortion post rape of course isn't being punished nearly enough we must send her to prison too.

re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by catholictigerfan on 1/29/13 at 4:02 pm to asurob1)

quote:How sporting of you CTF...because a woman getting an abortion post rape of course isn't being punished nearly enough we must send her to prison too.

I hope you understand culpability in law because a women who was rapped would be much less then that who wasn't raped. I'm no legal expert but I would think some slap on the wrist and a probation or something.

re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by Keltic Tiger on 1/29/13 at 4:16 pm to asurob1)

A woman is brutally raped & becomes pregnant. She makes a concientious decision to abort the animal's baby. Catholictiger & all his pro lifer types then put her in PRISON for that decision.One: that law would never pass. EVER. Two: MY faith preaches loving, caring, nuturing those in need; NOT punishing. I am glad I get into threads such as these, as they do nothing but strenghten my resolve to support a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body as opposed to giving that right to someone with their own religious agenda.

re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by NoHoTiger on 1/29/13 at 4:17 pm to darkhorse)

quote:specifies that she be provided with certain information at least 24 hours before the abortion is performed;

All of this information is readily available to any person who wants it. Any woman who wants to have the info can have it. There is no reason to delay the procedure for an additional 24 hours as this probably not a decision made spontaneously

quote: To know that Planned parenthood is keeping women in the dark

no one is keeping anyone in the dark. The information is readily available for anyone who wants it.

quote:As you can see here, an abortion is a high risk surgery.

All surgeries are high risk. Since abortion is considered a surgery, it should not be viewed any differently.

quote:Who should pay for the billion dollar industry formed by the abortion rights?

The person seeking the procedure. If it is covered under their insurance plan then fine, if not, it should be paid for out of pocket

quote:the abortionist allegedly failed to diagnose a client’s tubal pregnancy, which painfully ruptured 25 days later necessitating emergency surgery. She is now infertile.

It seems as though her gynecologist also failed to diagnose her tubal pregnancy when she went her follow up visit. Lots of tubal pregnancies rupture and the women undergo emergency surgery.

quote:A woman has filed a suit against a Planned Parenthood clinic in Nebraska claiming they were negligent in performing her abortion. The woman reportedly suffered from seizures and was forced to undergo an emergency hysterectomy following her surgery.

These are possible consequences of any surgery. It just so happens that they coincided with her abortion. Most people will sue a dr. after a botched surgery where the result in an emergency hysterectomy.

asurob1Florida State FanOn the edge of the galaxyMember since May 200916049 posts

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re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by asurob1 on 1/29/13 at 5:10 pm to catholictigerfan)

quote:I hope you understand culpability in law because a women who was rapped would be much less then that who wasn't raped. I'm no legal expert but I would think some slap on the wrist and a probation or something.

but everything I say you ignore so I'm wasting posts.

Yes, we will punish her by reminding of her rape every tuesday at 11am when she visits her probation officer.

quote:take the time to research the real motivations of the pro life movement most of you would be surprised.

But you are espousing YOUR motivations of the pro-life movement. Why would YOU be against a woman choosing what is best for her? If you believe in freedom, then you have to allow for those freedoms in others that you would not choose for yourself.

quote:look especially at crisis pregnancy centers, I believe they are more helpful to women then planned parenthood.

Crisis pregnancy centers serve a very real and valid need. But they should not take the place of Planned Parenthood and other centers who provide abortions as they also serve a valid need in the community.

re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by islandtiger on 1/29/13 at 6:59 pm to papasmurf1269)

quote:Abortion is murder.IMO it is allowable in cases of rape or the life of the mother is in jeopardy

This is one position I cannot get my head around. I am strongly prochoice, up to the age of viability, which continues to creep downward. I do respect the anti-abortion position, but it seems like there can be no exceptions. If your position is that abortion at any fetal age is murder, why does it matter if conception occured through consentual sex or through rape? Selective abortion to save the life of the mother does seem like an easier philosophical argument to make, since the fetus would not be carried to term anyway without the proceedure. This really does seem to me to be a black-or-white argument and gray cannot be defended.

re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by darkhorse on 1/30/13 at 12:21 am to NoHoTiger)

At least one of you attempted to respond..

quote:All of this information is readily available to any person who wants it. Any woman who wants to have the info can have it. There is no reason to delay the procedure for an additional 24 hours as this probably not a decision made spontaneously

Oh, so most people walk in and on the spot get an abortion? No need in sceduling an abortion? I believe you are wrong.

The information is NOT readily available. You have to dig to find it.

So I ask the question again... Since it is the LAW, why would planned parenthood want to block giving that information?

quote:no one is keeping anyone in the dark. The information is readily available for anyone who wants it.

You are wrong. Are you telling me that every person in the US has access to the internet on a readily basis?

Abortions are promoted as a safe procedure. There is no need for that information to not be freely given. NONE. And the thought of another human being spouting that if they want the information they should go look for it is more than sickening!

quote:All surgeries are high risk. Since abortion is considered a surgery, it should not be viewed any differently.

WHAT!!! Don't even down play the difference in this surgery vs others.

No other surgeries effect a woman as much as this does... not can, DOES. NONE! So again, tell me why you would want to block the information as mandated by the law? WHAT PURPOSE DOES IT SERVE?

quote:The person seeking the procedure. If it is covered under their insurance plan then fine, if not, it should be paid for out of pocket

Oh, so the APA does not cover that?

SO you, nor any of those here in support of women's right to choose have answered the question..

WHY block that information? What purpose does it serve? It's certainly not the woman. It's big business.

In 2001, the average cost was 495 per. Now it's closer to 695. That JUST the surgery. We abort 1.2 million every year. Over a billion dollar industry.

re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by NC_Tigah on 1/30/13 at 12:45 am to asurob1)

quote:Someone who makes the decision to abort is well aware that its not going to be easy or without some risk.

Are they?

quote:It's not your body...

The baby is not her body

quote:. . . so what do you have to gain from preventing someone to decide what to do with "their" body?

The same thing one would gain by preventing a mother's body from laying atop her newborn's body so as to smother it. It's her body. What justification is there to interfere? The justification is in saving the life of the second individual involved.

quote:But you are espousing YOUR motivations of the pro-life movement. Why would YOU be against a woman choosing what is best for her? If you believe in freedom, then you have to allow for those freedoms in others that you would not choose for yourself.

I don't believe in a Women's freedom to kill her unborn child.

its a human being it deserves protection under the law.

btw why I backed off discussion is because almost anything I say will get under keltic tigers skin. There is no way for me to word that abortion is wrong and me not to look like an A-hole who thinks keltic tigers sister is a murder and should rot in prision. Even though this is far from what I think, but its very easy to misinterpret what someone says on a message board. So anything I say in defense of abortion just turns keltictiger further and further away from what I believe the truth to be.

re: 40 years ago today Abortion became legal in this country(Posted by CollegeFBRules on 1/30/13 at 6:22 am to NC_Tigah)

quote:The same thing one would gain by preventing a mother's body from laying atop her newborn's body so as to smother it. It's her body. What justification is there to interfere? The justification is in saving the life of the second individual involved.

I admire your spirit on arguing here, but the reality is that pro-choice individuals deny personhood to the child. It's a terrible argument, but sadly one upon which there is no ground to be made.