Do You Write to Make Money or Make Money to Write?

Everyone wants to know how much money they can make online and people have become obsessed with how much money I make. This is weird to me, as I don’t sell any Internet marketing courses, nor do I consult with people on their websites, nor do I even talk about making money online that much.

But the question comes up often enough that it’s time for some real talk.

This is not a “positive” post, so if you want to hear from a cheerleader, this is not right for you.

In fact, I might take this post down after 24 hours. I’m not a dream killer, but feel it’d be dishonest to not manage expectations.

Plus, maybe you’ll be the Next Big Thing? Who am I to kill your dreams?

You can call it “information marketing” all you want, but if you sell your words, you are a professional writer.

Professional writers do not make much money directly, although they often make a lot of money indirectly.

You’ll be paid for your written words or for your expertise demonstrated from writing or for products you are able to sell due to your reputation.

On Being Paid Directly From Your Writing.

There are people whose traffic doesn’t even come close to Fit Juice’s (a niche site I rarely update) asking me about monetizing their writing.

Fit Juice gets around 2,000 page views a day. That pays the bills but won’t make you rich.

If you’re in college, that’s nothing to sneeze at. Plus, it’s passive income. I spend maybe an hour a month on it.

But should you quit your job to try making your money as a blogger?

If no one is reading your writing for free, why are they going to pay for it?

You need to see if you can build an audience before getting dollar signs in your eyes. If you can’t get people to read your writing for free, why do you think they will buy your books?

Let’s say you get one million readers. That may seem like a lot, because it is.

How will that readership convert into books sales?

The math on selling 100,000 books.

Imagine you want to sell 100,000 books. This number gets thrown around a lot. How many people would need to see your ad or webpage before you sold 100,000 books? (Tens of millions.)

A “conversion rate” refers to how many sales you get relative to the number of people who saw your page. If 10,000 people saw your ad and you sold 300 books, you have a 3% conversion rate.

But before you can even talk about a conversion rate, you need to look at the click rate. Your click rate is the number of clicks your ads receive relative to the number of people who see them. If 10,000 people saw your ad and 500 clicked on it (that’s a great click rate), then you have a click rate of 5%.

Here’s the back of the envelope math for selling 100,000 books:

3% conversion of

3,333,333 million clicks

5% click rate means

66 million ad views.

Sixty-six million! Where are those 66 million people going to come from? Do you even have 66 million people in your market?

How much is that traffic going to cost to acquire?

By the way, those are massively successful click and conversion rates. Anyone who says otherwise is showing you ONE ad or online marketing campaign. Some campaigns will convert well and others poorly. Aggregate them all out.

Here is what more realistic numbers look like on 100,000 book sales.

2% conversion rate

5,000,000 clicks

2% click rate

250,000,000 ad views.

Again, when people talk click and conversion rates, ask to see their entire track record. Looking at one successful campaign is like declaring someone a genius stock trader after making one trade. What if they lost money on all of their other trades, and in total, failed to beat the market?

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“I have ideas that must be written out or else I’d go insane. I can’t not write”.

That is exactly why I write. In fact I’ve just used the exact phrase of “can’t not” in a post I’m writing. When I’m happy, miserable, poor, flush, tired, energetic… I write. I write on or about anything. I can’t not.

The hardest bit for me was coming to terms with the fact that I am a writer. It took me years to accept. I wanted to be an athlete, or a scientist, or a doctor, or a bunch of other things.

Those numbers may look depressing to some – and if you’re looking at them and thinking “well that sucks”, then you are probably doing this for the wrong reasons. Let it be a wake up call.

Yep. Do *not* start a blog if your interest is in making money. Do it if you have something to say and want to help people.

People cannot do math. Similarly if someone is “consulting” for $150/hr… You know they are not making anything.

50 weeks, 50 hours a week every single day *150/hour (no breaks) = $375K a year. Post Tax this is about ~$250K… a Net Jets account costs $125-150K a year… NET.

So therefore no one who is living a “baller” lifestyle is working for $150/hour LOL. Mathematically impossible.

—

If you want to make money online, again you have to either 1) sell your soul by selling a bullshit dream or 2) start selling products to the masses.

At least #2 works long-term. Hint hint, sell to married women and you’ll make the most.

—
All that negativity aside, glad you’re finally going to release the book! Even if you end up charging $50 a unit for it you know you’ll get a purchase from this side of the web. After several years of writing for free asking for $50 is pretty much a joke.

Finally, you should really find a way to protect the product. Considering the complain-o-sphere certainly visits your blog, they will rip and copy and distribute that faster than their shitty life advice.

People always find a way to pirate stuff, but I think Mike has built an audience that attracts men of integrity and rejects trash.

That being said, any author should look at way to secure their creations.

I get that Mike is a target for SJW crazies who might want to pull something like this to undermine him. But those type of people would rather spend $15 on Organic-Free-Trade-No-Child-Labor-I’m-So-Hip chai latte then something that could actually improve their lives.

I read Danger and Play because I trust you. You post shit like this that puts things into a realistic perspective. No fluff. Gorilla Nootropics? I am interested to hear what the banned ingredient was.
Also, I am doing this blogging thing to share my ideas. Its not about the money for me at this point. Maybe some day it could turn into that, but now I write.

Best Regards,

Chase Power

Mike Cernovich

I’ll probably just release the whole formula if it doesn’t pan out. FDA may be easing its position on the prohibited substance.

Steve

Totally agree, Mike. You have to actually love to write. If you do not find immense joy in writing blogging is a huge chore and kind of sucks. It really is an art form.

When I was a kid I was writing stories so often my Dad gave me an old computer he got from work so I could type them all out. (For an activity that was not very practical at the time it was a huge gesture from my Dad, since he has always been a very practical man.) No one else in my family was like that, but it was something I always wanted to do. At the time I thought I would be a fiction writer, but my fiction blog went no where and I got lots of rejection letters. I still write some fiction, but for now I am enjoying writing nonfiction about teaching and people are actually reading it! So I am a published writer! Feels good achieving a childhood dream. Am I getting Michael Crichton numbers of readers? No. But am I doing something I have always wanted to do? Yes.

Thanks for the post. That’s why I read your blog. You don’t bs around. I get sick of everyone trying hard to sell you on something. Once I started blogging and not giving a crap about my numbers, while doing a little marketing on social media my numbers have gone up. I enjoy the writing for the process and the sake of writing, plus I have always had a burning desire to share my knowledge with others to help them. Blogging just fits me in a lot of ways. I like how it helps my thought process and ever since being a kid I have always written out my troubles. It is like I am writing them away.

One day I hope to make money from my writing to help provide for my growing family, but for now I am just enjoying the process and the joy of writing. Perhaps I am naive, but I think if you find the joy first more things will come down the road.

Mike Cernovich

Congrats!

SongTalkingMan

‘Appetite comes from eating’ is a french proverb. I try to think of it all the time.

Good post Mike. If you are interested in making money online instead of writing, take that time and learn/develop a marketable skill that they can scale into a business, or better yet develop a business around skills/knowledge you already have.

Most people probably fantasize a bit too much after reading the 4-hour work-week and think that blogging or writing online can cut it. Yet the best case studies I have seen from Tim involve very niche markets that offer a solid service/product.

Mike Cernovich

Thanks, Darren, and you’re right. A lot of people go into the online writing business because they think it’s easy money and they won’t have to work hard. They wouldn’t work hard at anyone. Those who succeed at online writing can succeed at other areas (and many have), but write for other reasons.

When I quit my regular job end of last year, a rather experienced guy took over. This one had put up around 5 online shops in niches that are fully automated. The shops generate money and he doesn’t need to do shit. One of these sites sells chess computers and all kinds of things related to chess. It’s a bit similar to affiliate marketing actually, but takes more care of the logistics; he has a deal with the suppliers who automatically get the money from him and the address to which to send the product. He said he only took over my job because he wanted to be around people.

Mike Cernovich

Sounds like a drop shipping business. I’ve been looking for the right one of those to buy for myself. I could have drop shipped juicers, actually. In a way affiliate marketing is drop shipping. You write honest reviews, do a link, and someone else handles fulfillment and customer service. Works for those of us who don’t like logistics or dealing with customer complaints.

Way to put things into perspective Mike. This is how you build credibility and reputation – by telling people things that they might not necessarily want to hear.

I’ve seen some of the other shitty self-help sites out there that try to copy you, or B&D or GLL, but they lack the soul and it’s obvious they are in it for the money. What a surprise it will be when they realize there really isn’t that much money out there when they try to monetize.

Reading this post reassures me that I am writing my blog and building my websites for the right reasons; that I want to write, express my ideas, to make art, to experiment, to connect with other similar minded people. There may be a product for sale one day, there may be not. The important thing is to write for the love and to make art for its own sake.

Instead of focusing on getting paid, blog writers should be focusing on marshalling all their resources and creativity to help as many people as possible. The law of attraction and reciprocal altruism says that they will be rewarded accordingly because what you put in is what you get.

Mike Cernovich

Exactly. Give it a run, see what you come up with. Might take a while, but it’s worth it.

(I don’t get bothered by the copycats, as they are in for a rude awakening when they realize they aren’t going to make any money.)

SongTalkingMan

I guess creativity is like resourcefulness. It can’t be copied.

I’ve recently seen “Why Beauty Matters” on Vimeo. It is a one hour documentary about how everything which isn’t made with beauty primarily in mind is completely worthless. If the creator doesn’t think of traditional beauty when he makes his art, then the work can only have the liberal values we nowadays seem hold in high regard. Now that I think of it, his points mirror or rhyme with Victor Pride’s thoughts on ‘Blog artistry’.

Cedric Roggins

Mike
I analyze everything and the brutal truth is most do not have the iq that you do or the fire.
Iq-How many people wrote peer reviewed articles on Con law?
Fire-How many have fought all the amateur fights you have?

Mike Cernovich

I’ve met far too many rich people with IQs lower than mine to obsess over IQ. In fact most people who write about IQ all the time on the Internet tend to be using it to preserve ego as they haven’t succeeded in life. As far as fire….that’s something each person has. It just has to be lit.

Thank you for your honesty and frankness Mike, I was one of those make millions online people at one point -then I learnt that you only get paid for the value you deliver.

You and Uncle Vic have taught me to own my name online and I am starting a professional blog to build myself in my industry and as a creative outlet. The idea is not to make money through this directly but build an online presence and learn the skills. Money will be made in my day-job/small business/side hustles.

Would you ever consider doing a post or podcast on the mindset of becoming a subject matter expert in a field and then leveraging the heck out of it -like you did with law? Krauser did a series of articles a couple of years ago, and I’d love to get your perspective on this.

You are a kick ass lawyer/legal scholar and I would love to hear more about how you grew that into an independent business. Especially how you got through the start-up process of transitioning from being employed to being a consultant/business owner. Must be an awesome story.

Mike Cernovich

“Would you ever consider doing a post or podcast on the mindset of becoming a subject matter expert in a field and then leveraging the heck out of it -like you did with law?” – Good idea. I sort of covered this in Start Scaling You. Maybe I’ll come up with something more.

Mike,
Can you discuss the trade off of selling the books on Amazon versus just direct sales such as B&D does? I was a bit surprised that you will use Amazon because one of the strengths of your site and approach has been to build up your own brand and loyal readership in a way that doesn’t rely on outside sources such as Amazon. I would have throught that the higher percentage you keep through direct sales would more than outweigh any volume boost in number of books sold that Amazon might provide.

And obviously this post was about how money is not the key motivating factor (or even a factor at all), but by the same token there is no reason to make less money unless the other benefits of that sales channel make up for it. I can see that having it on Amazon might make the book have more credibility / attraction to those less familiar with D&P.

I can speak to my experience with amazon, I’ve been selling there for around 9 months.

Unfortunately, what has happened recently is that people are hiring farms of English-speaking people from the Philippines to write low-quality books on trending topics, making the cover beautiful, and then editing the preview-able portion, so it sounds like a native speaker.

They see a great cover, great preview, then the rest of the book is trash. Most of the time they don’t bother to return the book, so the ‘author’ keeps his $3.

People have been burnt on poor quality books in the past, so they are more hesitant to buy books from unknowns.

Just my experience!

Jack

Mike Cernovich

Interesting, Jack, I did not know that. I’m not too worried about that, as the early Amazon buyers will be people who know me. I’ll get good reviews (and some vandalism from SJWs, of course), so Gorilla Mindset will be pre-cleared/social proofed.

Cedric Roggins

Sjws are Marxist lunatics. Why don’t they try to do something with their lives as opposed to playing thought police on men who want to act manly, have rough sex, and speak their minds via the 1st Amendment?

I think this comes back to the problem most people have when it comes to making money:

They think about how they can take value, instead of putting (tons) of it out there first.

You have to put so much value out before you can open your hands and ask for a penny back.

Writing is no different than breaking into any self-employed business.

When I was a recruiter, I would make literally hundreds (maybe a thousand) phone calls and emails and texts before I would get a fee from my work.

You’d be crazy to try and squeeze juice from a fruit seed, but that’s where most people with a scarcity mindset start.

“People say you have to have a lot of passion for what you’re doing and it’s totally true. And the reason is because it’s so hard that if you don’t, any rational person would give up! And the ones that didn’t love it quit because they’re sane, right? Who would want to put up with this stuff if you don’t love it?” – Steve Jobs

Mike Cernovich

Self-employment is the hardest job any of us will ever have, but it’s the best. Why that is…answers many questions about society and dealing with people.

Christopher Williams

Excellent and informative post Mike. Please don’t take this one down, it has value, even if its not “Positive”, its based on your observations, its truth, which should always be welcomed in D&P.

I’m looking to break into providing media of my own, and its about a subject I’m passionate about, but I don’t expect to get much traffic off it (it’s a very niche subject). I’m hoping over time I can provide media (podcasts and perhaps blog posts) on various subjects and maybe in a few years get something for it,all the while working on my day job career. This expectation was actually built from your past comments on this subject, having it compiled and detailed in this post is a good reminder to work our asses off and keep our ambitions grounded.

Mike Cernovich

Sounds good, Chris. You convinced me. I’ll keep it up for the time being!

It is funny, almost a year ago I started reading this site. It lit a fire up my ass, and each post I read is just more fuel for the fire.

Much of what I am doing with a life I very much enjoy living, stemmed from a lot of what you have recommended and wrote about. So again, thank you.

I started a blog because of this site. It is now in it’s third iteration. I am also writing a book. My experience as a writer is limited to just one year. Already I, and a few people I know, have noticed remarkable improvements. But I know how much further I want to go, and that is far. The key word there is want. I do not have to do any of this shit. I have leadership experience from my stint as an officer on a nuclear powered submarine, and a mechanical engineering degrees. I am going to get out of the navy (soon), and get a good paying job. I am okay with working, for now that is.

Will I keep writing? Absolutely. The act of writing has helped me immensely with my own thoughts and state of mind. It has helped me with talking to others. It has helped me learn much about myself. It has helped a few others, and I enjoy it. Every post is a new challenge, and a tiny little victory. I like looking at some piece of garbage I wrote a while back, and spending 3 days rewriting it.

I do not know what will come of this. No one can ever know what will come of anything until they try. That is why it is best to just do whatever it is a person wants to do. That way there is less want or need to attach themselves to the outcome. Life is much simpler that way.

You did not kill my dreams with this post. I am still going to keep writing and see what happens. If I decide to stop, it will not be because of my lack of success. It will be because I want to allot my time towards something else.

Who knows, maybe someone takes a glance and really like what I have to say. Maybe that someone is important or connected. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Writing is preparation for being a better person, putting it online allows for more opportunity.

Mike it looks like you enjoy writing and it shows! I believe although you can probably make a lot of money from this you instead do it for the love of it! To get an idea out there and watch it grow as more and more people read it!

You may friend are already successful and the size of your loyal readers only shows that!

Great article Mike, i was expecting something like this topic to hit, and as per usual you never disappoint.

i’m currently reading Scott Adam’s (of dilbert fame) book on how to fail at everything and still win big. its really refreshing and he makes mention of how knowing the odds of the game is important in leveraging your talents to win at the game.

He made one off the cuff heuristic which i liked and bears repeating:

“For roughly every new skill you acquire, your odds of success double”

Its not meant to be strictly true at all, but for some reason keeping that little mantra in mind makes it easier to experiment and try a variety of ideas from the intersection points of your talents, until you hit it big.

In scott adams words, he was okay at business, a poor cartoonist, pretty good at humour, pretty good at creative writing, discovered use of the internet and feedback marketing early, and also had an unnaturally high self belief he could beat the odds even though he knew he couldn’t.

this kind of merged together when he worked on dilbert. And now he’s bank.

You’re better off getting an oDesk account if your only writing goal is to make money. With basic skills you easily make a couple hundred bucks during a weekend on that site. Check out 30 Days To X’s article on it. I was shocked out how easy it was to get well-paid gigs.

Not much compitition. I’ve literally had clients say, “If you put in even the smallest amount of effort, I’ll give you a bonus and a 5 star rating.”

That’s how lacking in talent/work ethic the Internet is.

kittenholiday

I write to express myself, humor myself and others, share what some people find to be inspiring or at least “resonating” stories. I’ve not made a dime from my blog and I’m afraid if I were to try to start, it would take all the fun out of it. And there’s no way writing could compete with the income or security from my day job. I don’t want to risk it!