Originally Posted by zman
My political leaning is slightly to the left and closer to the center. In the past I've been outspoken against Trump but I must admit I've been pleasantly surprised lately. Democrats will always nominate someone who will be eloquent in their speech and say all the right things. At first they'll do the right things but as time goes by they will succumb to corruption. Republicans will nominate folks who can barely speak properly let alone maintain intelligent chain of thought. They'll say all the wrong things but in the end the strength of the democratic institutions of this country will prevent them from carrying out the agenda of the far right. Obama was viewed as the world's #1 peace maker, yet his direct or tacit approval led to the start of 10+ bloody wars in the middle east in his second term. Trump is like a barking dog that seldom bites. He was supposed to set the world stage on fire, yet 18 months later all he's done is stayed away from bloody conflicts. What America needs is Democrats and Republicans to continue to rotate power every 4 to 8 years and that's how it will sustain its greatness.

Obama: (From the letter he left for Trump)

American leadership in this world really is indispensable. It's up to us, through action and example, to sustain the international order that's expanded steadily since the end of the Cold War, and upon which our own wealth and safety depend.

Trump: Take the oil.

Conclusion: Trump = Obama

Quote:

What America needs is Democrats and Republicans to continue to rotate power every 4 to 8 years and that's how it will sustain its greatness.

America is no longer great in terms of many parameters (like healthcare, infrastructure, gun deaths, poverty among mass, life expectancy, invention etc), and if the status quo prevails, America will slump further. But by greatness if you mean oligarchy and extreme form of neo-liberalism and crony capitalism, then the US greatness will keep producing following results:

Quote:

Here are just a few facts about what is going on inside these corporations:

During the first four months of this year, Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, saw his wealth increase by $275m – every single day. Bezos makes more wealth in 10 seconds than the median Amazon employee makes in a year. While Amazon paid no federal income taxes last year, it has been reported that one out of three Amazon workers in Arizona and 2,400 of its workers in Pennsylvania and Ohio rely on food stamps to feed their families.

Disney made $9bn in profits last year and gave its CEO Robert Iger a four-year compensation package worth up to $423m. Meanwhile, almost three-quarters of Disneyland workers say they don’t earn enough money to cover basic expenses every month, more than two-thirds are food insecure and more than one out of 10 report having been homeless over the last two years.

The average cashier at McDonald’s would have to work over 895 years to make what the company’s CEO, Steve Easterbrook, earns in one year. While McDonald’s had enough money to reward its wealthy shareholders with $7.7bn in stock buybacks and dividends, it reneged on a commitment it made to its low-wage workers to pay them at least $1 an hour above the local minimum wage.

US taxpayers are subsidizing Walmart’s low wages to the tune of at least $6.2bn each and every year. That makes the Walton family of Walmart, the wealthiest family in America, the largest welfare recipient in the country. Over the past five years, Walmart made over $70bn in profits and paid its CEO Doug McMillon nearly $23m last year – 1,188 times more than its median employee.

American Airlines is using $2bn of its profits over the next two years on stock buybacks and will pay its CEO, Doug Parker, up to $31m in total compensation this year. Meanwhile, many of its ticket agents at Envoy Air make as little as $9.48 an hour, forcing many of them to rely on taxpayer assistance to make ends meet.

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
Totally Disagree with this part. What America needs now is bold, progressive ideas/policies - strong infrastructure, ending of all wars, free college, breaking up of banks, universal health care, anti-trust laws, no guns, sensible immigration laws, living wage, fair distribution of wealth, housing and job for each citizen - in summary - democratic socialism of Bernie Sanders.

I tend to agree most of the part you said above.

- None of the parties (Democrat and Republican) leadership will take us anywhere expect for status quo. We need new leadership with progressive ideas from both parties.

- "Ending all wars". Yes absolutely. Last 16 years under Bush and Obama, we had two presidents from two parties, but how many countries we screwed up during that time?

- "Universal Health care". Yes that is the way to go.

- "Sensible Immigration law". Yes as long as "sensible". I don't think opening border is the solution, nor do I want all future illegal gets free pass. The country should allow legal immigrants based on their needs. So I don't like where the democrats are going nor do I like heavy handed approach. Illegal immigrants need to be tightly controlled, but illegals 9alreaduy in the country for a while) with no criminal record should be given a path to get residency.

- "No guns". Absolutely.

- "Free college". Ideally great idea. But I would be happy if they tightly control or subsidize tuition fee. Its getting out of control (same as medical expenses).

- "Fair distribution of Wealth". I believe who works for 40-50 hours should be able to support his family. So I am in favor of higher minimum wage and upper cap for top executives of public company how much they can earn as compensation. Right now top executives of a successful company gets all the money but lower end workers get little for the company success.

- " housing and job for each citizen". Yes. But I don't like what CA and Chicago is about to start i.e. free $500 money each month, no question asked. This will make some people lazy. Instead we, the society should encourage people to work and make sure minimum wage is high enough to live decently.

- Yes, even I was not fully a Barnie fan, based on options we had I voted for him (in primary), wished he get the nomination. But the crooked Dem leadership made sure he never gets the nomination.

- I would also like to see simplified tax with no deductible and loopholes. Only simplified but step system. Everybody should pay tax, but lower income should pay less but higher income will incrementally pay more. Now only middleclass and upper middle class pay the fair share (plus more), lower income doesn't pay and rich has all the lawyers and loopholes to play less than upper middle class. Note: The reason I want even the lower income pay tax (even its $10) is: that's give them the realization that they are part of it and nothing is free, also they don't feel that they live on charity, they also contribute like others. This will give them responsibility and ownership.

^ agree, but economic progressive values will not succeed in America. Here is why - quoting my own post from somewhere else:

Quote:

While I certainly agree with the progressive view point of wealth sharing and measures against income inequality, without the presence and proliferation of a coherent spiritual world view, the fight against this neo-liberal crony capitalism giving rise to such extreme inequality is bound to FAIL.

Why?

When a world view denies the existence of God (or at least separates Him from political, social, and economic life), denies hereafter and accountability, denies the existence of soul, it actually denies the intrinsic value of a human being. When the intrinsic value of a human being is eliminated through elimination of all spirituality, it makes no difference if you share your food with a fellow human being or kill him. Either way, there is no purpose, and whether you give food or kill a person, you are merely rearranging the molecules of nature, which shall take place sooner or later. In such world view, it actually makes more sense for the CEOs to deprive of their employees as much as possible, and extract every penny so that they may enjoy a more luxurious plane, home, yacht, before their lives delve into inevitable meaninglessness and rearrangement of molecules.

Therefore, as much as I want economic progressive values to succeed, without true spirituality it will never truly succeed.

I agree with many of your points, surely there's need for reform in all those areas. However, absent implementation of these proposed solutions no matter how pragmatic they sound the end result is the status quo. I just don't believe any of the democratic candidates are prepared to take on the challenge to effect any change. They are bought off just as easily as the republicans. Bernie wasn't the first one to talk about democratic socialism, Obama promoted a different flavor of the same concept during his first campaign. If we can get a new party in the mix that will stand for these values and will have a real chance of winning it's a different story. If not I don't want to see only one party rule forever until all we're left with is fascism.

__________________
Few things inspire us to soar quite like being really f***ed if we don't

Hahahah...I know, this Barnaby is a major kipta old tight wad! The whole world is NOT his Vermont woods and hills!

Roey, were you ever a bar tender? You gave Sanders gin/tonic and the fuddy didn't leave you more than a few quarters?? What a douche! Socialist my a$$...You want to sip, you got to tip - biatch! Barnaby, this is Marcia!

Ohh not only he is Hillary's lapdog...he also doesn't tip his lap-dancers, expects the donors to pay for it. Next time when you come NYC, don't visit the Vivid anymore- Go to Hillary and ask her for a lap dance or go bobbing on Bill Clinton dance...you old cheap perv!

Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Ohh not only he is Hillary's lapdog...he also doesn't tip his lap-dancers, expects the donors to pay for it. Next time when you come NYC, don't visit the Vivid anymore- Go to Hillary and ask her for a lap dance or go bobbing on Bill Clinton dance...you old cheap perv

Originally Posted by zman
I agree with many of your points, surely there's need for reform in all those areas. However, absent implementation of these proposed solutions no matter how pragmatic they sound the end result is the status quo. I just don't believe any of the democratic candidates are prepared to take on the challenge to effect any change. They are bought off just as easily as the republicans. Bernie wasn't the first one to talk about democratic socialism, Obama promoted a different flavor of the same concept during his first campaign. If we can get a new party in the mix that will stand for these values and will have a real chance of winning it's a different story. If not I don't want to see only one party rule forever until all we're left with is fascism.

The difference between Bernie and Obama was Bernie completely crowd funded his campaign whereas Obama funded his campaign from Wall Street and Big Pharma.

During Obama's 2008 run, he only sprinkled a bit of democratic socialist solutions here and there, but he was a smart guy, and he hid his true face of being a corporate democrat under his flowery words. Once he won, we instantly knew who Obama was. City group chose his cabinet and he put wall street guys as treasury secretary to continue neo-liberal agenda.

I am not saying that if US elects Bernie tomorrow things will change. It won't. US needs grass roots change for a long lasting sustainable change. But what I am saying here is that comparing Bernie and Obama is wrong, they are completely two different people. Bernie is sincere about his agenda, even if he is not able to ralialize it to reality, whereas Obama was a corporate boot licker, who served people with nothing but his flowery words and became POTUS only to serve his ego and secure a future like the Clintons. Obama will go down as the biggest hypocrite in chief and a person FULL OF $**T.

Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Hahahah...I know, this Barnaby is a major kipta old tight wad! The whole world is NOT his Vermont woods and hills!

Roey, were you ever a bar tender? You gave Sanders gin/tonic and the fuddy didn't leave you more than a few quarters?? What a douche! Socialist my a$$...You want to sip, you got to tip - biatch! Barnaby, this is Marcia!

Ohh not only he is Hillary's lapdog...he also doesn't tip his lap-dancers, expects the donors to pay for it. Next time when you come NYC, don't visit the Vivid anymore- Go to Hillary and ask her for a lap dance or go bobbing on Bill Clinton dance...you old cheap perv!

Yes. The more hardcore commie they are, the less they tip. And then they lecture others about how they should pay more in tax. But that's liberals for you. All talk, but with other people's money, when it comes to their own pockets and they feel the pinch, they go as quiet a mouse.

I am not even a conservative, but studies have shown conservatives to be more charitable than liberals. Liberals just want your money for a big govt., but they themselves are cheapskates who never inspire others to be the 1%.

Trump 2020 Keep America Great!

#PrivatizeBCB

__________________
God has put a permanent curse on the Bd team because they have not gotten rid of Rahim.

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
Yes. The more hardcore commie they are, the less they tip. And then they lecture others about how they should pay more in tax. But that's liberals for you. All talk, but with other people's money, when it comes to their own pockets and they feel the pinch, they go as quiet a mouse.

I am not even a conservative, but studies have shown conservatives to be more charitable than liberals. Liberals just want your money for a big govt., but they themselves are cheapskates who never inspire others to be the 1%.

Trump 2020 Keep America Great!

#PrivatizeBCB

The liberals are demonized in USA. Also it seems you have accepted Republican talking points without much critical thought.

Have you ever asked:

- How US can afford 2 trillion USD for Iraq war? How come no one ever asks how US can afford when it comes to war?

- How can US afford more than 1000 military bases around the world?

- In the last budget alone, US increased 50+ billion in military budget? When everyone is screaming that Trump is an unhinged man child, how come Congress then give him a bigger budget? Those 50 billion dollars alone could have paid for a year of free college.

- Have you ever read about the waste in Pentagon?

- How come corporations use US infrastructure to do their business but pay almost nothing for tax?

- If everyone is talking about options, especially Republicans and capitalists, why didn't they include a public option in Obamacare? Why make the whole healthcare system hostage to middle men insurance companies?

As for privatizing, it can be good and it can also be bad. The idea behind capitalism was that market will take care of itself through competition, but what happens to competition if a competitor becomes big like Walmart or Amazon and then they buy everything else?

Look at the results of privatizing is USA:

- For profit prisons - thus millions incarcerated for almost no crime - because it benefits the prison owners - even lawmakers were found investing in private prisons

- Constant war around the world - after all - defense contractors must be kept happy

- Millions dying each year without healthcare - but no matter what - insurance companies must be kept happy

- USA infrastructure getting a grade of D, and Trump now wants to give a trillion to private builders so that they can now profit from roads, bridges, and almost everything

- Corporations are now even profiting from dead bodies

- there are some republicans who now want to privatize part of US army

- Trump now even considering privatizing NASA

The biggest lie of Republicans is small government. They don't want small government. What they want is to give all tax money to their friends in the name of privatizing.

And this is how the US govt has now become a yes man for corporations. Judges like Gorsuch and Kavanaugh - all are corporate bootlickers. The sad fact is, through constant fox news propaganda, 50% of the country is buying it.

America does not mean free stuff - except when it comes to corporations, war mongers, insurance companies, big pharma, and big oil.

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
The liberals are demonized in USA. Also it seems you have accepted Republican talking points without much critical thought.

Have you ever asked:

- How US can afford 2 trillion USD for Iraq war? How come no one ever asks how US can afford when it comes to war?

- How can US afford more than 1000 military bases around the world?

- In the last budget alone, US increased 50+ billion in military budget? When everyone is screaming that Trump is an unhinged man child, how come Congress then give him a bigger budget? Those 50 billion dollars alone could have paid for a year of free college.

- Have you ever read about the waste in Pentagon?

- How come corporations use US infrastructure to do their business but pay almost nothing for tax?

- If everyone is talking about options, especially Republicans and capitalists, why didn't they include a public option in Obamacare? Why make the whole healthcare system hostage to middle men insurance companies?

As for privatizing, it can be good and it can also be bad. The idea behind capitalism was that market will take care of itself through competition, but what happens to competition if a competitor becomes big like Walmart or Amazon and then they buy everything else?

Look at the results of privatizing is USA:

- For profit prisons - thus millions incarcerated for almost no crime - because it benefits the prison owners - even lawmakers were found investing in private prisons

- Constant war around the world - after all - defense contractors must be kept happy

- Millions dying each year without healthcare - but no matter what - insurance companies must be kept happy

- USA infrastructure getting a grade of D, and Trump now wants to give a trillion to private builders so that they can now profit from roads, bridges, and almost everything

- Corporations are now even profiting from dead bodies

- there are some republicans who now want to privatize part of US army

- Trump now even considering privatizing NASA

The biggest lie of Republicans is small government. They don't want small government. What they want is to give all tax money to their friends in the name of privatizing.

And this is how the US govt has now become a yes man for corporations. Judges like Gorsuch and Kavanaugh - all are corporate bootlickers. The sad fact is, through constant fox news propaganda, 50% of the country is buying it.

America does not mean free stuff - except when it comes to corporations, war mongers, insurance companies, big pharma, and big oil.

I agree with the specific points you raised, but the solution to that is not to go even further left. They can be fixed with good law and greater populism from the masses. And with the systems of checks and balances USA has between the judiciary, legislative and executive branch, only the best laws will get passed. That I can tell you.

With the overall message you raised however, again, too leftist in my opinion. Notice how you brought up the parties, I didn't. But now I will. This is what they teach people in democratic plantation these days apparently, to label any minuscule of thought t to the right of the center as "right wing" "republican" "alt right". This is just pure propaganda in order to keep the serfs in the serfdom.

There are no evil men at the top keeping you down. That is human nature, to get greedier while at the top. But then give back to charity of course, which they do, far more so than liberals who only talk of giving, but really want a big govt. and no efficiency.

The USA army is also not your enemy. The greatest peace keeping force in the history of the world cannot be your enemy. For as strong as they are, they have a moral conscience to keep everyone free. Unlike Russia and China who would gobble up the world with their ideologies if they were left to do so. Just as the Germans and Japanese wanted to do so, before USA came to the rescue. So before calling for the army to be weakened, you should pay your respects as a citizen of the world to the protectors of freedom.

But I agree with the problems that you did raise. And they will be fixed in due time. But if you are going to package them and call for a leftist uprising, then you will end up as the 50 states of Venezuela in NO time.

__________________
God has put a permanent curse on the Bd team because they have not gotten rid of Rahim.

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I agree with the specific points you raised, but the solution to that is not to go even further left. They can be fixed with good law and greater populism from the masses. And with the systems of checks and balances USA has between the judiciary, legislative and executive branch, only the best laws will get passed. That I can tell you.

With the overall message you raised however, again, too leftist in my opinion. Notice how you brought up the parties, I didn't. But now I will. This is what they teach people in democratic plantation these days apparently, to label any minuscule of thought t to the right of the center as "right wing" "republican" "alt right". This is just pure propaganda in order to keep the serfs in the serfdom.

There are no evil men at the top keeping you down. That is human nature, to get greedier while at the top. But then give back to charity of course, which they do, far more so than liberals who only talk of giving, but really want a big govt. and no efficiency.

The USA army is also not your enemy. The greatest peace keeping force in the history of the world cannot be your enemy. For as strong as they are, they have a moral conscience to keep everyone free. Unlike Russia and China who would gobble up the world with their ideologies if they were left to do so. Just as the Germans and Japanese wanted to do so, before USA came to the rescue. So before calling for the army to be weakened, you should pay your respects as a citizen of the world to the protectors of freedom.

But I agree with the problems that you did raise. And they will be fixed in due time. But if you are going to package them and call for a leftist uprising, then you will end up as the 50 states of Venezuela in NO time.

I guess you have watched too much Fox news and you are now completely into right wing propaganda.

The US politics has moved so far to the right that democrats have now become republicans and republicans are now on the way to become Nazis.

Anyway, if God keep us alive for next few decades, we shall see if right-wing policies restore US greatness or make it spiral downwards.

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
I guess you have watched too much Fox news and you are now completely into right wing propaganda.

The US politics has moved so far to the right that democrats have now become republicans and republicans are now on the way to become Nazis.

Anyway, if God keep us alive for next few decades, we shall see if right-wing policies restore US greatness or make it spiral downwards.

Nope. Non-affirmative. I don't watch Fox. Maybe you watch left leaning channels only and are projecting. I deliberately go out of my way to read and watch news from multiple sources.

I totally disagree with you on USA having moved anywhere. USA had always been center right, because that is what the people want. They are so sick of frauds like mad dog commie loon Bernie trying to hijack the country to the left, and were so distrusting of that demonic crony witch Hillary, that they gave their vote to the one man who would keep the country on track. The left right establishment shattering Donald J Trump!

And I am so happy for it.

__________________
God has put a permanent curse on the Bd team because they have not gotten rid of Rahim.

1. Democrats are paid to lose by corporations. Therefore, they do not have any strong policy stands/proposals. The only way to beat Trump is politics of policies. Instead, Dems are doing identity politics, vote for me because I am not Trump, and politics of no policy substance (ie vote for my values, stronger together, transparency, for people, better deal etc). They are highly unlikely to nominate Bernie or a similar minded candidate, and remember that their centrist candidates - Gore, Kerry, and Hillary all failed to beat the most GOOFY (Bush) and the most DUMB (Trump) candidates in the history of US politics. The lesson of history is no one learns from it and history therefore shall be repeated.

2. Overplaying the Russia narrative. Remember what Newt Gingrich used to do during Bill Clinton years? He used to think that he was very smart and played the obstruction card to the extent that it came across as if Gingrich is the president over the president. People became tired of it and thus duly rejected GOP and generously handed Bill Clinton a second term. The red baiting and Russia narrative will play out like that - people are already tired of it, and they know that Dems and the corporate media didn't give the president a fair chance. Plus Trump is a master of portraying himself as 'I am victim of fake news - pity me' and the result will be his 2020 win.