Tuesday, 19 June 2012

Muslims are staunch idol worshipers

Believers moving around the black stone in Kaaba, wanting to kiss it

Due to the large crowd they can't kiss it, so thy are touching its wall

Idol worship has been denounced in Islam on the grounds that God is formless, and thus he cannot be living in stones. This belief itself makes the power of god limited, that he can't take a form. Further, it means that god is not present in any object around us. On the other hand, some philosophies believe that god exists in every single thing around us, big or small. Rather, nothing exists but god. Let's for the arguments sake agree that God can't take a form, and idol worship is wrong. Innumerable temples have been broken on this pretext, numerous idols vandalized and desecrated. If the hatred of idol would be running so deep, one would expect at least consistency in this belief. So recently when I found out about the black stone, the pilgrimage to Kabba and the rituals to be followed there, I was dumbstruck at the hypocrisy of it! Let me present you the relevant facts, and you can judge for yourself how much Idol worshiping the Islamists themselves are.

Kaaba is the most sacred place according Islam. One is expected to go to Kabba in his lifetime if he can afford it, and is 1 of the 5 pillars of Islam. But non-believers do not know much about the place. What exactly is one expected to do in Kabba?

At the heart of Kaaba lies nothing but a black stone. People on the Haj pilgrimage are required to go round the stone 7 times, and if the crowd permits, they are required to kiss the stone. But their belief mentions that only God is to be respected and loved. Why this generosity to a mere stone? Going all the way from the world to kiss a mere stone, can there be a stronger form of worship? Worship is a form of extreme reverence, when you associate something holy to the object of worship. If idol worship is blasphemous, so is kissing a mere stone. You cannot have one criteria for yourself and a different one for others.

I tried to find the reasons and defense for this idol ritual. Look for yourself and judge it on its merits.

"Islamic tradition holds that the Stone fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar, which became the first temple on Earth. Muslims believe that the stone was originally pure and dazzling white, but has since turned black because of the sins of the people." (wiki)

I need not say much about the above words. Let us assume they are true. If a stone can have such a power and could be worthy of reverence, then so could be other stones as well. How is the idol worship by others wrong then?

A few others have provided these justifications for this practise :

Muslims believe that the Stone's role in hajj is simply representative and symbolic in nature, not related to belief in the stone itself as having any special power. A hadith records that, when the second Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab(580-644) came to kiss the Stone, he said in front of all assembled: "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither harm anyone nor benefit anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger [Muhammad] kissing you, I would not have kissed you."[22] Most Muslims follow the example of Umar:they pay their respects to the Stone in a spirit of trust in Muhammad, not with any inherent belief in the Stone. This, however, does not indicate their disrespect to the Black Stone, but their belief that harm and benefit are in the hands of God, and nothing else. Muhammad Labib al-Batanuni, writing in 1911, commented that the pre-Islamic practice of venerating stones (including the Black Stone) arose not because such stones are "sacred for their own sake, but because of their relation to something holy and respected." (wiki)

All idol worship is representative and symbolic in nature. The idol makes us remember the aspect of god we revere. Just like a piece of paper with a photograph of our mother makes us remember our mother, similarly, an idol makes us remember the associated god with it. We pay the respect to the idol in a spirit of trust and worship to the god. The idol makes a devotee remember the god, and hence is an object of veneration. We are after all, what we believe.

Thus I completely fail to see the difference between idol worship as done by the muslims and by the non muslims. If one is consistent, it is impossible to justify kissing your own stones, and denouncing others for doing the same. It is nothing but the worst form of hypocrisy, and it makes them the worst form of idol worshipers.

All the religions have always thrived on symbols. You cant imagine about an unseen god without symbols. Muhammad is as much a symbol as much as are idols. People believe in Allah because they believe in Muhammad. Take away this belief or symbolism, and you will be left with nothing to believe to, and the religion will crumble.

If someone gives me a logical explanation that why kissing one stone is correct but not the other ones, I would be very happy to accept it. I would be waiting for such a Islamic scholar for a reply. Most of the people are completely clueless about their beliefs and just parrot a few memorized lines. I hope they apply their own mind and see the bizarre things they have been believing in with the hope of securing a position in heaven.

4 comments:

Lol Dude (U are either in your closed bigoted mind or a Kid.. If kid then..take that "dude" as a sign to grow up..)...This is a joke u are making..

and have been debunked nummmber of times...

There is something known as sunnah/tradition/actions that muslims follow of Mohammad(saw) life.. If he has given charity before prayer muslims love to do so..

Going on this line Mohammad(saw) kissed that black stone to show respect to it as it was a sign to the first man on earth..

How carefully u have underline "important" words..and still missed the point..

Lemme quote one part from what you quoted and obviously did not underline it to INTENTIONALLY miss the point!!

"No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither harm anyone nor benefit anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger [Muhammad] kissing you, I would not have kissed you."

Now,Compare kissing a sign of your loved one with kissing an idol without having anykind of belief or intention that this act of yours can benefit or harm or harm you... You would aggree.. the idols are reveration of a what you say as "God"..

If i kiss a gifted mobile.. and now u wanna say I am worshipping it..I cant help it..

"People on the Haj pilgrimage are required to go round the stone 7 times"- Nope.. U are wrong! People go round the kabbah, the house.. again a sunnah symbolifying the worship of One God in an united manner.IF what you were saying would have been the case, muslims would have stopped doing pilgrimage when the stone was not in makkah for several yearss!

"Why this generosity to a mere stone? Going all the way from the world to kiss a mere stone, can there be a stronger form of worship? Worship is a form of extreme reverence, when you associate something holy to the object of worship."- By now U should be considering to take back those fautly statements..

"If idol worship is blasphemous, so is kissing a mere stone."- Dude (growup), u dont even knw the facts. and u are assuming the position to know islamic concepts to state whats blasphemous and what is not.

"I need not say much about the above words."- You shouldnt have put your forged assumption at the first place.

"A few others have provided these justifications for this practise :"And then u dont EVEN read what you quoted carefully! Awesome :)The prime proofs of islamic concept which stop muslim from taking the stone as object of benefit is merely a "justification". U coudnt use mush of your "dismissive"-ness to prove what you Wanted - Not whats is!

"The idol makes us remember the aspect of god we revere"Remembering God from any sign doesnt makes the action "idol worshipping". Believing revering the idol symbolizes God can bring benefit or harm is the action of "Worshipping".take this advice: read up..

INFACT God states in the book of Muslims that the signs are given to remember God and reflect on things. Quran - Chapter Ali-‘Imran: verse 190-191 Says:In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day, there are Signs for people of intelligence: those who remember Allah standing, sitting and lying on their sides, and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth: "Our Lord, You did not create this for nothing. Glory be to You! So guard us from the punishment of the Fire.

"Thus I completely fail to see the difference between idol worship as done by the muslims and by the non muslims"- Now that I have shown to you hope you succeed to understand, unless u did not want to understand in the first place.

"You cant imagine about an unseen god without symbols. "- If un only consider the people after prophet "mohammad" then there have been generations of humans doing so. And right now there are more than a Billion people who do so... IF u still cant accept that the limition is what you u are imposing on yourself, than one cant do anything.

"People believe in Allah because they believe in Muhammad.Take away this belief or symbolism, and you will be left with nothing to believe to, and the religion will crumble."- Believing someone said the truth, doesnt mean hes like a God.. Mohammad(saw) never created anything but He was on of the creation of God.. Nor does Mohammaad(saw) has the ability to benefit one or harm one. He is just as the title is given "A messenger". We dont equate every John and Pinky to God.. Lemme give you one smaal example of what is considered as worshipping. Going to godly Men than they have the power to remove your problems or has the vision to tell u that if u eat a banana pulp ur exams will go well is "worshipping acc to Islam".I have no words.. Everything one does makes him an idol worshipper to yoou.

"If someone gives me a logical explanation that why kissing one stone is correct but not the other ones, I would be very happy to accept it"- Every thing I cited is a logical concept, unless u want to try the "justification" type dismissive attitude of overlooking it.

" I would be waiting for such a Islamic scholar for a reply."- It doesnt requires a scholar. Normal basic logicical concepts of Islam.

"Most of the people are completely clueless about their beliefs and just parrot a few memorized lines."- I am not.. and I come around 4 muslims in office and 3 of them are not. So 75% around me is a good number. About parroting, Quran is leaned by million word to word by heart. That requires repeating stuff..you knw..You might have done this with your tables when u were small and din even knw why is 7x3=21.

"I hope they apply their own mind and see the bizarre things they have been believing in with the hope of securing a position in heaven. "- U are ending with the readers to hope open up their mind. I hope this is not a sign that what ever u said above like "If someone gives me a logical explanation that why kissing one stone is correct but not the other ones, I would be very happy to accept it." was just fluffy talk.

Only I hope u get it. I replied in a stauch manner coz I din see the attitude to learn, but with the hopeful attitude to decieve others if not including yourself.

Hello AhmedFirst, don't start with assumptions whether you are dealing with kids or "bigots", it will help you better in grasping the essence of what has been presented. Next, you have indeed tried to present your perceptions in a balanced way, yet it also shows how your ideology traps you in and limits the flight of your logic. I will try to explain why.

My above post has tried to compare two things, as should be clear. 1. Islam considers idol worship as a sin/blasphemy/desecration etc. Numerous temples/idols have been looted and destroyed on the above pretext.2. In the same Islam, people go to Makka and kiss stones.

You say kissing is not equal to worship. You say people kiss stone as Muhammad had done it, and thus they do it as a sign of reverence/remembrance. But then, exactly on the same grounds, why can't you justify idol worship then? Reverence and remembrance are reflections of love, low in intensity. Worship is the same with higher intensity and faith. Thus an idol, which makes a devotee remember his god, is very much venerable to him. That is logical consistency. But you cannot accept it. Why? Only because Quran prohibits it?

"Going on this line Mohammad(saw) kissed that black stone to show respect to it as it was a sign to the first man on earth.. "

You really believe the above line? Or you have a new theory of evolution?

"People go round the kabbah, the house.. again a sunnah symbolifying the worship of One God in an united manner."

Going round the house is your sunnah, symbolizing worship of one god. You can understand this. Why cant you understand idol worship is another set of tradition and symbolizes worship of god itself. Double standards impose on you by your beliefs?

You yourself site many things to justify any possible idol worship. Another one

"INFACT God states in the book of Muslims that the signs are given to remember God and reflect on things. "

Yes, idols are signs which people make to remember god. Now you get it?

"You cant imagine about an unseen god without symbols. - If un only consider the people after prophet "mohammad..."I think I was not clear here in what I wanted to convey. By "imagining", I meant meditating on god, in an attempt to be actually able to see/feel/interact with him. Saying god is this or that, and actually trying to feel him are different. I will not elaborate on it here due to space constraint.

In short, what I am conveying is the double standard of Islam, which looks at two QUALITATIVELY same things by different lenses, which I call as hypocrisy. One is free to worship/ not to worship/ worship as one wants/ worship idols/worship formless etc. What is wrong is to say only my way is correct, all because a book says so. That is intellectual dishonesty.