Location: The absolute western-most point of the Philadelphia urbanized area. :)

Posts: 1,535

I, too, think this should pass. I live in greater Philly, and SEPTA sucks! We have bus routes that run similar if not the same routings as its regional rail counterparts.

Regarding MARTA, I guess they're trying to overhaul their old obsolete system with something newer, more state-of-the-art as well as more dependable? Believe me, I guess the day Philadelphia does this it will be the day after judgement day pretty much...

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Transportation planning, building better communities of tomorrow through superior connections between them today...

This map from the Transport Politic gives an idea of the transit expansion plans included under the tax. The solid thick red lines are the existing MARTA heavy rail lines. The various dashed and dotted lines are projects included in the tax.
(Map copyright Yonah Freemark at theThe Transport Politic)

This map from the Transport Politic gives an idea of the transit expansion plans included under the tax. The solid thick red lines are the existing MARTA heavy rail lines. The various dashed and dotted lines are projects included in the tax.
(Map copyright Yonah Freemark at theThe Transport Politic)

Thanks for sharing.

It's good to see the MARTA heavy rail line dipping more into South DeKalb. I recognized from news reports that some in DeKalb were disappointed in the proposed busway via Turner Field to Wesley Chapel. They wanted rail. As a Fulton County resident, I understood their concerns because DeKalb and Fulton has been shouldering the financial responsibility of MARTA and should reap its share of benefits.

All in all, it looks promising and is a good start. I just hope the governance does not get bogged down in political quagmire.

Seems like it would make sense to link the various segments of light rail. Adding a segment between the Northwest Corridor and the Clifton Corridor would be great... they could follow the CSX line (northern section of the Beltline) between Northside Drive and Piedmont. Then people coming from the northwest would have only one transfer to get to the Emory/CDC area.

Likewise, the extension of MARTA into south DeKalb could also be done with light rail, extending from the Avondale station to Stonecrest along US-278. The 278 corridor offers far more potential for TOD than a MARTA line that runs along the Perimeter and I-20... since when do people want to live next to a freeway? Or it could follow Redan Rd eastward to the rail corridor and then south to Stonecrest (hitting downtown Lithonia).

I'm generally really looking forward to this. Not a huge fan of any more taxes, but I'm also enough of a realist to know we need transportation dollars from somewhere and transit needs to be a key piece of the balance.

That being said, I'm a little disappointed commuter rail isn't a more significant part of this. Seems unlikely to me that we could not have gotten a couple of lines of commuter rail. It didn't need to be everything on the commuter rail wish list, but Athens-Atlanta line + southside line would be huge and would just further support walkable development and local ridership on the other lines.

I do think the Emory line (eventually going to Decatur) is huge, as is getting transit further out to Stonecrest. Finally, I'm a fan of both the North Ave street car and the Cobb LRT - but wished maybe West side (which is becoming increasing redeveloped and dense) was a more core part of the transit plans. Hopefully the "Short" option chosen at least gives us Atlanta Station and Marietta/Howell Mill stops before turning north.

Yesterday, the Sierra Club of Georgia announced it was urging its members to vote against the proposal in favor of what it calls “Plan-B.” The Sierra Club hopes that after the referendum is defeated, a new proposal funded by the gas tax with “a fix-it-first roads strategy” “that emphasizes transit expansion and improvement” will emerge, according to a statement from the group printed in the local alt-weekly, Creative Loafing.

- The Sierra Club plan sounds like great transportation policy, but it currently lacks the political and organizational support underpinning TIA. And compared to the region’s current transportation, TIA is pretty good policy. If Atlanta lets the current moment slip by, there’s no telling when the region will have another good opportunity to raise billions in revenue for transit. The Sierra Club is planning a joint press conference with — oddly enough — local Tea Party officials this week where they will discuss their concerns further.

- Meanwhile, more mainstream groups were quick to criticize the Sierra Club’s position. Citizens for Transportation Mobility, a group of business interests that is pushing for TIA’s passage, responded with “dismay.” “We find it highly unusual that an organization charged with preserving and protecting our environment would oppose a transportation investment that has the potential to do exactly that,” Che Watkins, campaign manager for CTM, told Creative Loafing. “The Regional Transportation Referendum holds more promise of relieving congestion and reducing air pollution than any plan in decades.”

- “If the Sierra Club has its way,” he continued, “more harm will be done to the environment as the state continues to fund roads to the exclusion of transit.” Ashley Robbins, president of Citizens for Progressive Transit, which is leading the campaign for TIA’s passage, said that her group “respectfully disagrees” with the Sierra Club on many points The money expected to be raised by the new sales tax is to be divided up into three pots. Fifteen percent of the money will go towards local communities to use at their discretion. The rest of the money will be divided among road and transit projects — with 52 percent supporting transit, and 48 percent supporting roads.

.....

The Atlanta Beltline, shown here in an artist's rendering, would be funded by a one-cent sales tax referendum to be considered by Atlanta area voters in July. But the local Sierra Club is urging its members to vote against the proposal.

This Sierra Club diagram assumes the 15 percent of the TIA money allocated to local communities would all be spent on roads, something that Atlanta and the city of Decatur have disputed.

MARTA trains have been carrying over 200,000 weekday riders for well over 15 years which coincidentally would make it about the same age (15 years) as you state DART is now and DART carries 83,000. I remember hearing a report when MARTA weekday ridership hit 100,000 and that was in the 1980s I believe. But I do understand that what DART is doing today may be exciting.

People are forgetting that MARTA is a heavy rail subway.
This is probably the biggest reason for the difference in ridership levels.

The Georgia Sierra Club is the only environmental group that is opposed to the TIA/TSPLOST. For comparison, some environmental/transit/sustainability groups that have specifically come out in support of the tax include:
Environment Georgia, Southern Environmental Law Center, Sustainable Atlanta, Georgians for Passenger Rail, Mothers And Others for Clean Air, Atlanta BeltLine, Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, Citizens for Progressive Transit, MARTA, Liveable Communities Coalition, Emory University Office of Sustainability, Atlanta Regional Health Forum, Congress for New Urbanism, and Park Pride.

The Georgia Sierra Club is the only environmental group that is opposed to the TIA/TSPLOST. For comparison, some environmental/transit/sustainability groups that have specifically come out in support of the tax include:
Environment Georgia, Southern Environmental Law Center, Sustainable Atlanta, Georgians for Passenger Rail, Mothers And Others for Clean Air, Atlanta BeltLine, Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, Citizens for Progressive Transit, MARTA, Liveable Communities Coalition, Emory University Office of Sustainability, Atlanta Regional Health Forum, Congress for New Urbanism, and Park Pride.

I guess the lack of the NAACP on your list answers my earlier question. It sure would have been nicer of you to have answered it more directly.

^ I wasn't answering your question at all. I have no idea if the NAACP is still opposed. They haven't released any statement other than their original opposition in mid April. As I stated above, I was only referring to "environmental/transit/sustainability groups," which certainly does not include the NAACP.
If you're talking about any type of group, the only three that have gotten any publicity for opposing the transportation tax are the Dekalb County NAACP (Note, NOT the Atlanta NAACP or nationwide NAACP), the Georgia Sierra Club, and the Tea Party of Georgia. Meanwhile, more than 75 local/regional/state organizations are in favor.

^ I wasn't answering your question at all. I have no idea if the NAACP is still opposed. They haven't released any statement other than their original opposition in mid April. As I stated above, I was only referring to "environmental/transit/sustainability groups," which certainly does not include the NAACP.
If you're talking about any type of group, the only three that have gotten any publicity for opposing the transportation tax are the Dekalb County NAACP (Note, NOT the Atlanta NAACP or nationwide NAACP), the Georgia Sierra Club, and the Tea Party of Georgia. Meanwhile, more than 75 local/regional/state organizations are in favor.

The Georgia Sierra Club only has around 10,000 members across the state...so it isn't really a formidable voting bloc anyway. It's good to know that the other environmental groups aren't so short-sighted. What a bunch of assholes to oppose the only chance Atlanta currently has at some decent transit improvements. There may not be any "plan B" for a long time...

MARTA trains have been carrying over 200,000 weekday riders for well over 15 years which coincidentally would make it about the same age (15 years) as you state DART is now and DART carries 83,000. I remember hearing a report when MARTA weekday ridership hit 100,000 and that was in the 1980s I believe. But I do understand that what DART is doing today may be exciting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketoronto

People are forgetting that MARTA is a heavy rail subway.
This is probably the biggest reason for the difference in ridership levels.

Don't know why you felt propelled to respond to my post. But I do know that MARTA is heavy rail and DART is light rail. I also know that heavy rail is faster, and yes has more capacity than light rail. Even when looking at APTA latest bus ridership, MARTA carries significantly more than DART.

So its possible to deduce using your logic than DART system may be on the level of WMATA (DC's transit system) based on its light rail mileage and DC's heavy rail ridership. OK I get it.

Is the NAACP still against the referendum as written, or has their policy changed recently?

I'm having a very difficult time believing this referendum is going to pass with both the NAACP and Sierra Club against.

DeKalb NAACP has expressed opposition to the referendum. Their opposition is based mostly on what I stated earlier in this thread : they wanted rail from Downtown Atlanta via Turner Field to Wesley Chapel rather than BRT line.

Their argument uses the premise that DeKalb and Fulton has been funding MARTA alone for over 40 years. Their opposition is based on wanting more which is different than the Tea party. While I understand their argument, I believe in the notion of not "cutting off your nose to spite the face". For a functional democracy, not everyone gets everything one wants all the time.

Still, I tend to believe the referendum will pass. This belief is based on the support of the referendum by the business community, the Republican governor, Democratic mayor of Atlanta, the Republican state legislature, the Democratic CEO of DeKalb County government amongst others included those mentioned by shivtim.

DeKalb NAACP has expressed opposition to the referendum. Their opposition is based mostly on what I stated earlier in this thread : they wanted rail from Downtown Atlanta via Turner Field to Wesley Chapel rather than BRT line.

This would be better than the stupid, absurdly expensive heavy rail from Indian Creek to Stonecrest. Build LRT along I-20 with a BRT connection from Wesley Chapel to Decatur. There really shouldn't be any rail lines that extend past the Perimeter more than one or two stations, unless we're talking about a low-cost commuter line.

MARTA is much different than DART because it bores directly into the major employment and activity centers in Atlanta. There are subway stations in the middle of Buckhead, Midtown, Downtown, Decatur, Sandy Springs, the Airport etc. With a line directly to Emory and the CDC, that's another big destination. If it wasn't for poor management, fare hikes, etc, it would kick ass.

But anyways, how will this new expansion continue that?

Spending a lot of money on extensions outside the perimeter to a freaking suburban mall sounds like a waste. They need to get Emory and the CDC plugged in, then focus on bus improvements in parts of town where a lot of the riders actually come from.