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Re: VottOBP

They should've traded Votto and Chapman to the Mariners last offseason, perhaps in a package deal. Now it looks like the Reds are stuck with them.

"This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

Re: VottOBP

To me, the issue is the swings Votto is taking -- he's taken more defensive / half-swings than I can ever remember him taking in the past, almost like he's overthinking what he wants to do with the baseball when he makes contact (v. just making good contact). It reminds me of a golfer who is trying too hard to aim his iron shots and just ends up shanking.

His eye is still good as to balls & strikes, but I think he's getting crossed-up when it comes to pitches in the zone that he usually drives.

Re: VottOBP

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

To me, the issue is the swings Votto is taking -- he's taken more defensive / half-swings than I can ever remember him taking in the past, almost like he's overthinking what he wants to do with the baseball when he makes contact (v. just making good contact). It reminds me of a golfer who is trying too hard to aim his iron shots and just ends up shanking.

His eye is still good as to balls & strikes, but I think he's getting crossed-up when it comes to pitches in the zone that he usually drives.

Too many inhibitory synapses working for Joey right now.

I wish all the rest of our players could slump like Votto does, though.

Re: VottOBP

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

To me, the issue is the swings Votto is taking -- he's taken more defensive / half-swings than I can ever remember him taking in the past, almost like he's overthinking what he wants to do with the baseball when he makes contact (v. just making good contact). It reminds me of a golfer who is trying too hard to aim his iron shots and just ends up shanking.

His eye is still good as to balls & strikes, but I think he's getting crossed-up when it comes to pitches in the zone that he usually drives.

I don't know that his eye is or isn't good, but on about 30% of pitches he faces he either takes a strike or swings at a ball. Even a guy like Jay Bruce, that number is around 24%.

Personally, his swings aren't bothering me at all. He's a slow starter and he's not crushing the ball yet. When he gets locked in, his swings will look different and maybe he will swing more.

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Re: VottOBP

I think the most interesting discussion in all of this is the strategy to pitch around Votto (which I really do not see how this could be "exaggerated," there aren't too many obvious things, but this is one of them), and while this might be a supportable strategy on a bad offensive team, it certainly is not on a balanced offensive team that v. 2013 Reds seem to be. I would certainly pitch around Gioncarlo Stanton all year, for example, but I just don't think the strategy is going to work long with the Reds.

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Re: VottOBP

Originally Posted by traderumor

I think the most interesting discussion in all of this is the strategy to pitch around Votto (which I really do not see how this could be "exaggerated," there aren't too many obvious things, but this is one of them), and while this might be a supportable strategy on a bad offensive team, it certainly is not on a balanced offensive team that v. 2013 Reds seem to be. I would certainly pitch around Gioncarlo Stanton all year, for example, but I just don't think the strategy is going to work long with the Reds.

As well ass Choo, Cozart, and BP are batting right now, it doesn't add up to walk Votto like he's a version of early 2000's Bonds. I think opposing teams will eventually wise up.

But what can you do, the man is Joey Votto. If you pitch to him you'll regret it. His swing mishaps this year could be partly because he doesn't get a decent pitch to hit and he is trying for an XBH rather than a walk

Re: VottOBP

Joey has seen plenty of first pitch strikes right down the middle that he's not pulling the trigger on for some reason. So if he was ready to hit and wanted to get some hits...the first pitch has been there for him quite often.

Re: VottOBP

Originally Posted by R_Webb18

id rather him play

Guys need off days periodically throughout the season, even machines like Votto. There are only so many Cal Ripkens and Lou Gehrigs across baseball. The Reds are in a midst of playing 20 straight games without an off day. Even if Votto weren't struggling, Baker should (and probably is) looking to give him a blow at some point just to prevent wearing him down. Tomorrow against a lefty is as good a day as any.

Re: VottOBP

Re: VottOBP

I have no concerns over Votto. If he goes 3 for 3 tonight with 2 doubles and a homerun he will be slugging .528. If you are one great game away from being back around your career norms. It is way too early to worry about someones approach and to attempt to get inside their head.

Re: VottOBP

Joey has done basically nothing and has still been one of the most valuable palyers in baseball.

Remember last year when Pujols did nothign for 2 months? He is one of the least valuable players in baseball during that period.

This stretch has shown me just how amazing a hitter than Joey is. We all know he is going to hit. We've seen the guy play before. He has not suddenly forgot how to hit a baseball. His swings don't appear to be nearly as hindered as they were last year during the injury.

Votto is easily the player I am least concerned about on this team. I consider any comment mocking his recent contributions to be null and void of value.

Re: VottOBP

Originally Posted by traderumor

I think the most interesting discussion in all of this is the strategy to pitch around Votto (which I really do not see how this could be "exaggerated," there aren't too many obvious things, but this is one of them), and while this might be a supportable strategy on a bad offensive team, it certainly is not on a balanced offensive team that v. 2013 Reds seem to be. I would certainly pitch around Gioncarlo Stanton all year, for example, but I just don't think the strategy is going to work long with the Reds.

I think I've already backed that up with why I think it's exaggerated, but here it is anyway. People see the best player walking a ton and assume it's because he's getting pitched around without any consideration that maybe it's just as much a result of any number of factors that can lead to walks besides seeing fewer strikes. He saw 41% strikes each of the last 3 years. This year he's seeing 40% according to fangraphs. It's a very small difference. The huge difference from last year to this year is that he's seeing more pitches (more walks) by swinging at fewer strikes and putting the ball in play less. I'm not arguing that's better or worse, only that it is what's happening.

I watch every game too and I do understand the walking makes it seem like he's being pitched differently. The reality is, I think his approach has changed to being pitched the same way and is making his ABs look completely different.

ETA:I really shouldn't be saying last year vs this year, this started last year, so you see an even more dramatic trend 2011-->2012-->2013

This offense looked anemic a couple days ago. We'll know more about it in a month or so.If teams continue to throw hittable fastballs,we'll be a juggernaut at the plate. Choo has been the catalyst for this.

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