I was wondering if anyone can help - I've had a go at making the points for my OH's doublet (with leather thonging and the metal ends (I forget what they're called), but they don't seem to last very long. Does anyone know where I could buy some ready made ones. I've found some at Black Swan Designs in the States, but they have a minimum order cost to post overseas - so is there anyone who makes them in this country??

There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

As Jorge alludes aiglets were usually fixed to the lace using a small soft iron rivet. Many are excavated with the rivet still in place though the lace has rotted away. They may have been sewn on as well, it seems probable, but I would like to see evidence for stitching from surviving points if anyone knows of any.
Fixing with rivets is a fiddly technique but when you get it right is very strong. The MOL book on dress accessories notes that many excavated rivets show faceting at the ends and discusses how this might have been done and why, including the possibility of some sort of tool being used to 'crimp' the aiglet to the lace.
Many recommend a belt and braces approach and use glue as well as stitching / rivet.
I have been unable to source iron rivets so far but can supply 1/32" (.8mm) diameter round headed brass rivets which work very well.

PS. I have noted aiglets for sale at markets recently cut with a zig-zag top. They look great, but is there a historical precedence for this style? Or are they as inaccurate as those sold made from solid brass tube? Or, God forbid, those gastly modern ones sold by haberdashers and much loved by the SK. (OK I have some on my old buff coat but I never wear it these days. Much.)

According to Ruth Singer of Soper Lane, lucet braids were not in use before the 16th century. The comment came in a private conversation after a lecture, when I explained that my 1469 houppelande was laced with a lucetted cord from Annie the Pedlar, and Ruth winced. So although it is strong enough to lace me in (and I need all the help I can get) apparently I am wrong to wear it!! (But I can't afford a braided one from GinaB - waah!)

There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

I have heard the comment about lucet not being correct before. For the moment I am continuing to use it until have perfected my fingerbraiding technique.

Having now thoroughly read "Tak V Bowes" I am confident that the simpler ones are manageable.

On the points issue I have found that the rivetted leather points sold by Lindy Pickard (Cloth Hall) are excellent for Peter's everyday garb. When I have time and have done some for me I will do him some posh ones.

I have experimented with rivetting my lucet points and can report that very fine brass panel pins are a good source for the rivet wire and cheap.

There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

I know they are, I know Ruth, but the Beverley dig in about 1990 threw up loads of stuff, one of which was described as a lucet.

A sheep metacarpal apparently, pronged and late 12th early 13th, you are right though I should pass it on to them for their consideration.

I have no axe to grind on the subject, for what it is worth I only heard of a lucet last year (a returnee and not my subject really) as not being late medieval but found reference to one that was - apparently, hence the mention.

Also the dig was centred around the dyers' quarter which also threw up loads of info on that.

What Ruth should have said was there is no real evidence for its use in the 15th century - However, to sum up my small article - there does seem to be some evidence before (tools which could be), and the actual term (and it being fashionable to use) happens later. This could imply that its use continued through the period for which we have no evidence.

The real problem, and one which occurs all of the time with narrow wares, is that the majority which survive are not analysed for their technique. Usually, a description is simply 'a silk braid', a 'wool braid', etc. This means that until every one is, no-one can say with certainty what technique was, or wasn't used.

This brings on another point when discussing the lucet cord. If you were to make a lucet cord, a round lace of 5 loops, and an 8 strand plait, of the same weight thread, you would see that the structure appears very similar in all three. In fact, if the ends were encased (such as in an aiglet, or a tassel, etc) and the item had aged, anyone would be very hard pressed to be be able to identify the technique used without actually taking apart the item - and of course that isn't going to happen. So, there could be purse strings for instance, which use the lucet technique, but are to precious to cut apart!

To that end, using a lucet braid on your kirtle - with the ends nicely encased in aiglets - will look (and possibly be) totally accurate. But, using the tool at 14c or 15c events, therefore implying it is an everyday item in a work-boxof the period, should, in my opinion, be avoided. That will then avoid confusion with Mops.

I believe that research such as this should always be classed as on-going. I can remember beginning re-enactment and being told that only the Vikings used multi-coloured fingerloop braids, but never in the 15c...

I hope this has helped a bit. Any other references to possible lucets closer to the 15c would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the timely clarification. I'm giving a talk tomorrow (to the same people as Ruth!!) and will be demonstrating my medieval (1460's ) costume, laced with a lucet cord and finished with aglets. So I can make the point that you do, with permission of course. I will also be showing the blue belt you made for me at the same talk (so you know who I am!)

And thanks Gregory for mentioning the finds so the topic could be opened up. It's never safe to say never in our business, and I should have known better, even if I was quoting!

Pleasure, SC I will send you a copy of the article/description if you pm me some details.

I have a braid that I finger-looped some 13 years ago, for attaching to my pen case that I brought it out of retirement over a year ago and early last year someone said 'ah that is a lucet braid' I didn't have a clue what she was on about, I just said I did it with my fingers...and they raised their eyebrows - which kind of proves Gina's point (excuse the pun) as no endings were visible.

Shadowcat wrote:And thanks Gregory for mentioning the finds so the topic could be opened up. It's never safe to say never in our business, and I should have known better, even if I was quoting!

"Lucet" bones (there have been heated arguements whether these bones were made for 'luceting' (?) or some other craft on viking mailing lists) are not _that_ uncommon artefacts. But as one usually have to go through a lot of excavation reports to find them, I'm not surprised they are less well known.

Anyway, the point of this: I googled and found these (IIRC from Sigtuna, a medieval town not far from Stockholm). Tinbl-bein is the swedish name for them, after a find from Lund which had 'tinbl bein' carved into it in runes.
More info on tinbl-bein finds here Scroll down to the English bit, or use Babelfish for the swedish and danish parts.