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Whenever someone disagrees with a few of the folks in the forum, some of you guys resort to that same tired script of labeling folks a conservative. It's just as silly and immature as conservatives on talk radio labeling anyone who disagrees with them a liberal.

People who hold intolerant views, both liberal and conservatives, and don't mind throwing out a few labels to cover up for their weak and tired arguments are what's wrong with America (and a few other places).

And who gets to decide when a person's view is intolerant? I hate to burst your bubble, but there is much more wrong with America than a bunch (me included) of knuckleheads arguing online about the war.

Alright Cliff, let us take your comment at face value. Assuming you believe what you just wrote, how can you justify what this administration is doing in regards to the Bush war, the shredding of human rights, our Constitution and the Geneva Conventions??? I think pictures of dead and maimed American soldiers and Iraqi civilians should be splashed across every media outlet in this country, until this administration is forced to tell us the "real" truth about the war on terror.

I also do not you know what you are talking about when you make any reference to soldiers or their families and their feelings. Have you been to war? No, then where do you have any room to talk for anyone else, other that sharing you own narrow-minded opinion on what constitutes an acceptable picture on this forum?

If you truly understood the cost of war, you would find that most soldiers and their families would support us knowing the truth at what is happening and no matter how hard they try, the shit is just getting deeper and eventually all the nasty truth will be told. I believe it reflects really poorly on this country, that Republicans started Impeachment proceedings against Clinton over lies about sex, but George lies us into this fiasco he calls a war and then uses it as a pretext to simply enrich the power of his position and when he says jump, Congress asks "how high". If you think he is doing any of this in support of our war on terror, well I have a bridge in Brooklyn...

One of the founding principles of this country is freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as it does not offend Cliff. You have read it many times, if you do not like a post or picture, then pass it by.

I did not say one thing about Bush, the current Administrative policies, human rights, the Constitution nor the Geneva Convention. Which thread are y'all reading? Y'all are intent on throwing out all sorts of inaccuracies here. Why?

The only thing I said was that I thought showing a picture of a guy with his head blown off and an eye missing in the forums was disgusting and in poor taste. I also said I thought it was in poor taste when someone posted a picture of a fully naked woman. I don't think the forums is the place for that, there are plenty of XXX and gory sites on the internet to post those sorts of things. That's my personal opinion (which last time I checked, was allowed). I recognize you disagree, but that doesn't mean I can't state my opinion, (which is why I find all this talk about censorship and freedom of speech so ironic, you guys really don't care about freedom of speech or censorship.)

As in most Aidsmeds discussion (with certain folks) people throw words in your mouth and then turn around and condemn you for it.

Joe- THIS IS WHAT I SAID.

Quote

It's not the political statement that I objected to or the nationality of the person, it was the graphic nature of the photo. I believe the photo was in poor taste.

Yes, I used the report to the moderator feature to say (and I think these were my exact words)..."This photo is disgusting." That's what the report to the moderator feature is for, isn't it? Are you saying that you have never used it? Are you saying, you have never asked to have a thread locked or in any way reported a comment made by someone to the moderators? What's the difference?

Cliff, my comments are all relevent so maybe you are the one who needs to reread what you posted. You said that only people who experience war know the true cost and that is false. Too many of us have lost people to war and I cannot think of one of them who would support your censoring of a mere picture, because it makes you uncomfortable. Yet you make a perfect example of part of what is wrong in America today, the inability of people to state the simple truth.

Granted you expressed your opinion about the picture, but you also expressed so much more in your other comments.

My point about the picture is that it represents the truth about a war that our government will not share with us. America has a proud heritage of free speech, even when that speech can serve to be divisive, because that is the way our government is structured. But Republicans control our government and truth is a rare commodity, so if a picture can encourage people to start getting some answers, instead of the constant stream of lies, then more power to it.

The point about the picture is playing out in the news today as our government shreds our national values. That is why it is relevant, because you seem to believe that just because something is disgusting in your view, that your view should take precedence over the rights of the rest of us to see these posts as originally intended by the author. It is called censorship and since you support censorship, I was just responding to your intent. Surely you do not expect me to be fooled by your righteous claim of being so offended, because what you really wanted was the picture gone. You only cared about your own sense of disgust and in doing so you are attempting to place yourself above others.

Sounds like a certain government we have. Censorship is almost always wrong and you cannot condone it in this case.

You also seem to underestimate my convictions, because no Cliff, I have never reported anything to the Moderators unless it involved violations of the terms of membership here. As much as some of the posts here disgust me, I have a free will and I move on, rather than insisting on censorship.

What I really do not understand is that you got your way, so why are you bitching about anything??? No doubt looking for support for the picture banning, but you already have that from Peter...

Cliff, you got what you wanted...you were able to have the photo censored. That didn't bother me in the least... quite to the contrary. You accomplished what I set out to do, bring the debate around to what I see happening in this country...censorship. You may differ with my opinion and that is fine with me...but is it necessary to demean. Why does it matter where I live? Why must I have fought in Iraq to form an opinion? Do you apply the same standards to yourself? Why is my opinion, your opinion, Moff's, Jack's, Joe's, Matty's, Rod's, Ann's or anybody else any more important than the others...they are not! They really are only important to the person making them. A narrowed debate is unhealthy for democracy to survive.

By the way...would I get mad props from you if you knew I live in inner-city Memphis, Tn? Does that give my opinion more street cred?

p.s. you mentioned something about the picture demeaning the memory of the soldier...what does this picture do?

There are no US citizens rights being violated. The recent fight over Geneva convention was dealing with terrorists who are not US citizens. This is idiocy to think it is violating our rights.Dems and their big supporters, the trial lawyers, are threatening to sue US servicemen for violations of Geneva Convention. Bush wanted Congress to define what was acceptable treatment and torture. We know we cant dress them as women or parade them around naked, even though they behead us.The monitoring of US phone calls to people of interest or terrorists OVERSEAS is crucial in our war on these killers. In no way is any US citizens rights being violated. IF you are in communication with a terrorist, you should be in prison.

And Jack..... a good "Christian Ethic" which is one of the ten commandments and one of the tenants of the Church and this country says, "Love Thine Enemy", which implies not killing them, regardless of how many of us they kill. 80,000 dead is a far greater example of not following the Christian ethic we espouse, but instead follows their creed more closely, which is kill all the infidels.

Where did we go so wrong?

« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 05:54:44 PM by Moffie65 »

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

There are no US citizens rights being violated. The recent fight over Geneva convention was dealing with terrorists who are not US citizens. This is idiocy to think it is violating our rights.Dems and their big supporters, the trial lawyers, are threatening to sue US servicemen for violations of Geneva Convention. Bush wanted Congress to define what was acceptable treatment and torture. We know we cant dress them as women or parade them around naked, even though they behead us.The monitoring of US phone calls to people of interest or terrorists OVERSEAS is crucial in our war on these killers. In no way is any US citizens rights being violated. IF you are in communication with a terrorist, you should be in prison.

Will someone tell me how asking Congress to define what type of treatment of non US citizens who are terrorists is curtaling our rights? Pure insanity.How are my rights as a US citizens being hurt if the goverment is monitoring phones from US to known terrorists OVERSEAS, there are no inter US calls being monitored.

You surely don't believe this do you? Geeeeez, don't you understand how Cell Phones work...... Damn that was a very ignorant statement to make as it is patently untrue. The Patriot Act, decrees that it is not only legal but prudent for the government to listen in on the population to make sure we catch anyone not conforming to "The Way".... C'mon Jack, you do certainly know better. This one is beneath your capability.

Come on, focus..........

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

Moffie, the phone calls that Democrat in congress are against are calls from US to terrorists overseas. That is a fact. Can anyone name one person who has come forward with their rights being violated by thisoverseas phone monitoring? or for that matter your inside the US calls? Should we do nothing like we did throughout the 90s and wait for them to attack again? Their goal is to kill us, not just kill us because Bush is president.

Cliff, my comments are all relevent so maybe you are the one who needs to reread what you posted. You said that only people who experience war know the true cost and that is false.

Joe, One last try. You are misreading what I wrote. The point I was making is that Hal posted a picture of a guy's head blown out and an eye missing and when defending the photo, he and others made the point that those who disagreed with that photo being posted in the forums don't want to see or know the realities of the war. MY POINT was that finding a photo on the internet and posting it in the forums does not mean you know more about the realities of war than someone who found the posting of that picture in the forum in poor taste. My statement was specifically saying that if you had served in Iraq then maybe I can see how you can claim to have some superior claim to the realities of war, but just finding a picture over the internet doesn't count for much. It is dismissive to suggest that just because you find a pic of a mutilated body disgusting that you must be a) for the war and b) don't understand the true nature of war. That was my point Joe. All the other stuff you are bringing up are irrelevant tangets. But if it makes you guys sleep better at night to label me the censor-loving, anti-democratic, self-righteous, conservative, judgmental, Bush-loving, Iraq war lover, Iraqi hater, liar (did I get everything?).....then be my guest.

None of us have actually served in Iraq, so this is all academic. I doubt any of us really know what it's like to be over there.

I hope that was clear. Probably not.

Hal,

I don't have any opinion on that picture. Though it appears to be the speech Bush gave when he declared an end to the war. If that is the picture, then it just reminds me of his mishandling of the war. But no, I am not disgusted by it.

You were doing pretty well, until you played the victim card. I understood your point the first time, but you are unable to understand any of mine. I do not need to label anyone, so keep your judgments to yourself as I never labelled you. I stated my perceptions of your intent in being so offended by an honest depiction of the Bush fiasco and based on other comments you made in the post.

Does not matter. As Iggy said, our opinions appear to only matter to us. And that is the saddest truth of all. You seem to want the world to be black and white, when it is forever shades of grey. Some of you are even unable to entertain the possibility that some of the comments here are true. If you would only open your mind to the possibilities for compromise our country would benefit greatly.

It is not suppose to be Americans against Americans but that is what the Republicans have created and you seem to buy into it. Very sad indeed.

Maybe I can figure out your convoluted logic. None of us have actually served in Iraq, so this is all academic. I doubt any of us really know what it's like to be over there. Huh?

Maybe doing a little research on the internet might sort that out for you. Since I don't really know what it is like over there...I owe it to myself to try and find out. News accounts, books, the internet...anything that enables me to at least try and understand this mess. If you are happy with the status quo...that's cool...whatever floats your boat.

I have never been to an AMG function...but I got a pretty good idea of what that was like over the internet...pics and all.