Many thanks to everyone who contributed to the Improve SuperTopo 2012 Thread. That is, and will hopefully continue to be, a great place to post concrete, fix-it style improvements for the SuperTopo Forum.

Now here more generally is what I hope the SuperTopo Forum can achieve – the overall feel of the Taco.

1) Inspire, educate and humor each other
As I see it this is the whole point of the Forum; what the Forum is on its best days. There are a lot of amazing people here from wildly different backgrounds. It’s great how many different styles of information come forth, from people sharing wild winter ascents in the High Sierra to how to make the ultimate van conversion.

2) Preserve history
A lot of Historical Gold has been posted here from Yosemite, Colorado, Alaska and around the world. I love the fact that a web search for old climbing history often directs the searcher to the SuperTopo Forum. Best of all, many of the people who made that history post here! Some people have asked if this historical stuff is safe here. Answer: Yes. We have been around since 2000 (the Stone Age in climbing Forum time) and are not going anywhere. We have a business model learned from living in Camp 4: even with low income, you can always keep your expenses even lower. (And grab leftover pizza from the Curry Deck when necessary).

3) Have the most open home for discussion on the Internet
For good or bad, SuperTopo is the least moderated, least categorized, least divided up forum out there. One page, simple layout, post em' if ya got em' That is what people love and hate about the Forum, myself included.

There is always a tough balance between letting things be open and uncensored vs. creating a place where negative rants can push out all the good stuff. I appreciate the reminder emails from users that we can't just let EVERYTHING fly here at the risk of turning off the people who come to contribute, become inspired, and share awesome climbing/life adventures (see Points 1 and 2 above).

Since anyone can post as many times as they want, there is the ability for a person or group to steer the entire Forum to reading what they want by bumping their topics to the top. If a person or group chooses to do that, the Forum is no longer as free and open a place because they are taking disproportionate control of what the rest of the Forum sees listed on the top. We hope people will not abuse this power and for the most part people don't.

We depend on people to self-monitor. And when things get out of hand, which they sometimes do, we depend on Forum members to point this out.

OK, enough from me. What is your favorite part of the Forum? Where do you want to see the discussion headed? Post your thoughts here, or, more importantly, dig up your best, most hilarious, most inspiring stuff and post it on the Forum.

Many thanks to all that contribute here,

Chris McNamara

PS: While some forums have long rules lists, ours is pretty short and simple. It shows up on the right anytime you make a post and here it is:

Thanks for joining the conversation!
Our goal with the climbing Forum is to provide a resource for climbers of all skill levels and experience to get information about climbing and climbing destinations.
Please help us keep the climber's Forum a friendly and informative resource. If you find posts that are objectionable, please let us know. Although we can't control the content posted to the Forum or route beta sections, we will delete objectionable or offensive posts as we become aware of them.
We appreciate your support!

My First Forum "Video Reply" Post!!
This video below touches on what I have said here.

The original longer version that rambles on after 4 minutes is here. (My dad and wife recommended a tighter edit and I agree).

Thanks, Chris. Ever thought about getting a resident MD/PT or the like to contribute on a regular basis regarding climbing-related injuries and rehab? There's only so much Ron gomez can respond to, and since I'm currently redshirted it was on my mind...

Thanks much Chris. It can't be easy being the father of this "thing" and this informal video of yours upthread is a very disarming continuation of your fundamental, friendly and highly motivated engagement with national and international climbing and with us. I am glad to see you doing what you can to keep Supertopo a place of real esteem, wit, and community; please don't doubt that many of us are with you on these goals and guidelines. Thanks tons!!

the ol' epilepsy forum that used to be so helpful to folks, to just click in to use... you'd see a list on the side, and click any of the (say 10 selections) and THEN still see a full page (or a one other click that simply offered all newest post, on one page, and since this was serious health issues, THAT was good to have)

WELLLL, THEY CHANGED IT ALL TO BE MORE MODERN AND FANCY, :o and many folks that were quality long time poster can not even be found anymore,
:( everything is piled over every thing, very sad.... :(

folks leave then, unless they are strong hard core computer folks that love to sit and dig through stuff...
or folks that are so in need of help and support that they have to fight extra hard for it, :(

welllll, YOU HERE, are easy to see,
easy to use,
and easy searches...
and it only take a CLICK to get to the next page of a WHOLE other 30 titles on a page all EASY TO FEW and easy to hit FIRST OR LAST POST...

also--trip report button, :) not too many buttons, so NOT all that awful overlapping hidden stuff... and trip reports SHOW on the regular page...

very good job for us simple folks on dial up, too....

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE keep it simple, :)

lastly, neat, for videos, i myself can't do them with dial up, but wonderful they are, i must say...

this year is very busy for me, so i can only drop in and read fast, or reply fast, this year--but it WORKS wonderful...

god bless... thank you for making this supertopo open and friendly, and may the posters keep open to resepct your wishes are well, as to
how to handle discords, so they will not get 'dissed' = as in
DISconnected from us all....

:)

*sure wish the picture uploader has only ONE browser window to hit and sit through, though, hard for dial up... :) (takes twice as long for the picture to go through the systems)...

as a mostly lurker and one who tries to stay out of the more acrimonious stuff ... thanks very much Chris for everything you have done here, hosting this space, and this message too.

It's not an easy thing to create a community, I get the impression a lot of people tried that in real life in the 60s-70s with very mixed results, and after over 15 years online in various places I can see it's not easy in electronic space either. Your attempt to stay mostly hands off yet keep things from getting out of hand is both admirable and, never mind the glitches, I think impressively successful.

Chris, I think you are going about this all right. Take your time, make the moves you have been making with the Forum, spend time building gearlab etc. and whack the moles in as little time/effort/energy as possible.

Everyone who posts here needs to read this. Especiallly people who post too much non-climbing stuff.

Chris:

I get what you are saying about knott moderating. The last thing anyone has time to do is go around editing other people's posts. Good.

You also say that you don't offer warnings to people who are crossing the line, but that when they do cross the line, you simply whack-a-mole them, often in response to emails of complaint from other forum users.

May I suggest one change to this strategy? If you start to receive repeated complaints about a user, have a form letter to that effect that you can email to this person, something along the lines of, "you are being an idiot, and unless you clean up your act starting right now, we will delete you." Send it once and then if the person doesn't heed, delete them. This seems more than fair, since your video post also suggests that you are willing to consider the petitions of those you ban, which is a good thing to do.

I think such a warning strategy might save us months of wading through annoying, irrelevant and unproductive posts from people like fattrad.

Here is an example - someone who has made 300 posts since January 22, all of which are non climbing. Clearly this is in direct opposition to Chris' forum goals outlined above:

The person linked above does knott even climb, and has cluttered this forum with over 21,000 annoying posts! Do you realize that this single non-climber user has made more than ONE PER CENT of all posts on this CLIMBING forum? You talk about one person using too much bandwidth unfairly. Take a look at the average number of words this person makes per post, and apply that to the one per cent above. How does it grow then? Two per cent? Three per cent? Do you "get" what I am saying here? If you are going to pull a few weeds out of your garden, this one might be worth pulling, too.

Thanks, Chris. It's excellent to know that you read emails, and act on them.

Thanks for the wonderful response, Chris! When you started all this, you could not have imagined the great value that the forum would have for so many of us. We reconnect with long lost friends, trade beta and get advice, support each other, read about amazing adventures of others and re-live some of our own. THis forum is a unique and valuable resource for many people and as noted above, has some of the best history of climbing to be found anywhere. Many thanks for putting up with us and for keeping the forum up and running.

Over the 2 1/2 years I have been hanging around this fire, I have had opportunity to meet in person many of the posters here, including many that post what I consider to be harsh, rude, insensitive, and downright nasty things. However, in person, these same posters are actually quite wonderful people.

What confounds me is why so many must be so outrageously nasty while around the virtual campfire. It's almost as if a whole different personality, ala Sybil, is inherent in countless people here.

Perhaps if everyone would treat others as if you were talking to them as a guest in your home, the issues that can plague this place would melt away. We might all end up with more friends as well....a pretty nice result, in my opinion.

It's called the 'Online disinhibition effect' Cragman. It's not only here on the taco, but other sites, emails, etc. Puzzles me as well. I try to only be me here and in person, but know of folks that revel in being the biggest tool they can online. Baffles me.

Bump threads to the top only when someone new posts to it. A thread is bumped only when somebody who has not yet posted to it, posts to it. This would reward threads that bring in participation from the widest range of users.

If the same few people are posting over and over to a thread, then it is a private conversation and they can bookmark it to get to it. It does not need to be bumped to the top for those few people to find their thread.

Paul above has it right on. More than any other change, addressing the problem of the same 10 yakkers dumbing down every single thread, with their constant display of THEIR personality, would be a huge improvement.

Consider from time to time, "not posting". Maybe the topic is not an area where you have specific knowledge and the OP is hoping for some in-depth discussion on a climbing topic. It sucks then for that thread to go to 100 posts of mostly stupid, one-liners. It makes it so you can no longer access the info from the post, when it's buried in a mountain of crap.

Great post from CMac looking forewards. And a "nuking explanation" at the level of abstraction needed. I'm glad you do not get into details about why individual posters are nuked because I think that would end up in endless argumentation.

By the way - sad news from Norwegian climbing will soon reach some of you. Two excellent climbers have died in the Kjerag area. One of them is very well known internationally. The names are not official yet.

Yes, I agree Spider. It has to be a balance and one shouldn't be afraid to post, one line or 20. However, a small minority of posters on the site, post to the majority of all threads. So, they are who we get.

you've got an edit button there bluey. unless you're so bloody sure about demonstrating that your supertopo goal is to see the bar set at your particular brand of ugly,
i'd suggest trimming it back to language due the gentle lady.

From a social standpoint:
I agree to keep moderation light. The forum is fun because it's wild. Much like many climbers around the world. However, there are many intelligent climbers around the world as well. the whole purpose of the forum is to discuss climbing and related stuff. There are thousands (millions?) of other forums on the internet to discuss random nothings. Not that I dislike random nothings, but if you aren't going to police, than it becomes a USEABILITY issue, which brings me to...

From a technical standpoint:
Allowing users to quickly and easily navigate to EITHER the serious technical thread on gear etc.. OR to the political yelling match is the crux. Useability is what the web is about. Ideally, the forum would not be a forum at all. Forums have been around without much change to their format for over a decade. The future of online discussion is nested commenting with moderation and "karma" points, like you see on Reddit.com. Unfortunately to migrate the 1.5 million posts from the current database to that kind of format would be a pretty serious undertaking, at least from my perspective. Maybe some code guru could take it on.

But maybe there's a way to change what's already here to take the edge off of a couple of the issues here. The main problem, from my perspective is simple. It's all about the most recently commented upon topic bumping to the top of the front page. That's great for keeping the conversation going, but not so great for almost all other purposes, like finding a thread you want, or getting perspective on what's been posted when. This is especially apparent to me on the Trip Report section. The other problem with putting the posts with the most recent comments on the top is that it gives trolls too much power. The best way to kill a troll is to ignore it. But the troll knows that their comments will be seen if bumped to the top of the forum.

So here's two ideas. One is to split the front page into either 2 rows or two columns side by side. The top one is ordered by the date the post was posted on. Most recent ones go on top etc. This does not change until a new topic comes along, thus bumping it down. Then the 2nd column or row performs per usual.

The 2nd idea is like the first, but probably a better option. Leave the display how it is, but provide a "sort by date" option at the top and well as a "sort by last post" option. Then the users could browse how they want. Ideally the preference would be stored in a cookie for later. To really shake things up, the default view could be chronological instead of by last post. For the trip reports, I feel that's how it should be. For the front page, I'm not sure. It could decrease trolling but may also decrease participation.

Anyway, I actually don't come to the forum very often, so I offer this up with a grain of salt and digress to the members with much more invested here than me. I don't know all the ins and outs. Just a couple ideas to think about.

First off, let me say I've learned a great deal from lurking here. When the time comes when I have something significant to contribute to trip reports, etc., I will do so. Until then, I feel no need to chime in on every other thread.

Yes, keep the moderation going with a light hand. I can't see how it could practically be otherwise. BUT, please empower individual users to clean up the signal/noise ratio themselves with filtering tools. Let me "mark as read" every BS thread so that I never have to see it bubble up again. This is not cutting edge technology. Every Usenet newsreader client has had this capability for the last 20-something years.

If you can get this interface fix done you accomplish two things: You end the discussion about whether "real" climbing posts and OT posts should be split into separate areas (it'd take the wisdom of Solomon to judge one from the other). And you put it back on all of us to clean it up ourselves -- in a way that doesn't infringe on anyone's right to post or anyone else's sense of what's appropriate or inappropriate.

My goal for the next year is for my little girl to continue growing as a 5.12a climber and for our family to have many memorable Eastside trips.

CMAC,
I hope you read Blacksun's and Paul Martzen's posts above. And note, to date they have each posted only once on this thread. They actually had something to say but again their substance is buried in poop.

In short, take the power from the troll and attention seekers by changing the format so that the most recent post does not place that thread at the top of the list. We're hearing loud noise to signal ratio from just a very few.

lest we forget, there are physical limits to computer memory, even though it takes place at the molecular level which, i believe, is something like 10 to the -9 power meters. still, it consumes silicon. be sure to recycle your bottles.

This of course is a GUD point and why I personally often go through my photo's here, and try and DELETE older ones that either I no longer like, or have been repeated, or complained about, or whatever...

Point being, perhaps it would benifit the site if we ALL went back and did some "House cleaning" on our own posts???...

"A nice filter and some different post display rankings would be very useful tools for many folks"...

A BANDAID!!!...

MIGHT do them better to deal with their INNER issues and why the fuk something as simple as an internet forum bothers them so...

It really is as easy as DON'T OPEN A THREAD that isn't interesting to you...

and if you open it and don't like what someone has posted...

MOVE ON!!!...

How fuking hard is that???...

But people STAY put and FOCUS on what bothers them...

They HYPER FOCUS and COMPLAIN and WHINE and CRY...

When all they have to do is just IGNORE it...

You done now?

I certainly would appreciate filter and sorting capacity. I don't really care if that represents some moral failing or impulse control issue on my part. I think many users here would appreciate such tools. That is all I am saying.

The positive comments in this thread make me optimistic the Forum will continue to improve and inspire.… maybe even more so than it has in the past.

I got an email from one of the authors I mention in My Home Solar Panel TR "You have a lot of smart comments on your site--it's rare to find that in forum postings these days." Which was very cool to hear from an author I respect and who has never seen the site before. More confirmation that at its best, the forum is pretty sweet.

One suggestion we hear is the need to better inform people when their posts are objectionable. We are improving that process right now.

And it sounds like we should make more videos. Send your suggestions on topics. What do you want to know about SuperTopo? What topics do you want to see covered in videos? I am planning to make more how to aid climb videos shortly. I have also thought of making a video tour of the SuperTopo shipping center where Steve in Shipping (aka Dad), Summit, and myself ship out all the books. I have also thought of doing video tours of each guidebook. Let me know what you want to see.

And love the technical ideas on how the forum can be improved. We are always review those. Feel free to post them here or over at this thread

PS: I may have to write a trip report about drinking that 5 liter beer. I finished it, solo, but it was an adventure.

Speaking of filters, I have this crazy idea that will likely never fly, but it's a revolutionary idea...

What would this forum be like if people filtered themselves? As in, resisted the urge to post at every whim throughout each and every day?

Wat it boils down to is that it seems like a very select few make 95% of the posts here, and their constant, unrelenting presence disproportionally affects the flavor of the forum, for better or worse.

//I love how some people complain about having to search a couple of pages back to find whatever it is they wish to read...

As if that's a fuking HARD thing to do...

What a bunch of whiny, lazy, Mofo's!!!...

BIG FUKING DEAL!!!...

So hard to do!!!...

"Ouch!!! My finger hurts"...//

Hi Locker,
I'm not really afraid to put a little work into finding a post, so yeah, no problem searching back a few pages. The problem I have, is once you find the post, it's now got 800 posts or whatever, of mostly garbage that isn't relative at all to the topic. I've got better things to do than input all of that into my head and if that's true for a nobody like me, I'll bet a lot of the Jellos and Rgolds do too.

Not trying to whine and I suppose it's a losing battle but I'm not sure about the "don't fix what aint broke".

Locker, it's not that his point is useless. His point has validity and so does yours. And Roks too; I had never thought about key clicks. For the record I've enjoyed much of Rox and Locks sh#t. You don't tend to monopolize. But you know you can cross over that line. And yeah, I know there's is no rule but there's still a line. It's possible to contribute without holding down the spray button.

I really like David Plotnikoff's idea about a "mark as read" feature. That puts it in the control of the reader what they want to view, and doesn't change the forum at all for those who want it to stay the same.

I like this option much better than the "kill script" option that a lot of people use (which I do not want to use ).

I also like the idea of a "click to donate to the forum" button. These funds could be used for features and code upgrades that people want.

Yeah, limit the threads content, limit the most prolific posters to a hundred a month

It was a joke Rok.

That last "Where is this?" post was a great one, and old timey, so it pertains directly to the history of the mountains in Europe. And it went less than 20 posts, not because it wasn't good, but because the topic got expired in 20 posts.

Nothing wrong with that. A thread's greatness isn't determined by it's post count. On climbing topics sometimes the smaller is better. You know, less is more?

I’ve been reading this site since its inception and the past few years have watched it circle the drain as far as any worthwhile content. The forum has become grossly over-represented by a few people with pretty obvious mental issues, social inadequacies and FAR too much time on their hands.

But I still drop by a few times a week and you know why? To find out who fukking died. So for me, and I doubt I’m alone, the site has become an obituary column. Pretty sad if you ask me, because it had potential to be a great place at one time. If I want to read trips reports, gear reviews, etc., I go to Mountain Project.

And to all the machine gun posters out there, here’s a suggestion: for EVERY post you make, make a commitment to get off your ass and do 10 pullups, or run a mile, or go for a bike ride. Anything. You’ll thank me for it someday.

I’ve been reading this site since its inception and the past few years have watched it circle the drain as far as any worthwhile content. The forum has become grossly over-represented by a few people with pretty obvious mental issues, social inadequacies and FAR too much time on their hands.

Take a look at this; hardest I've ever laughed. I took a look at my SuperTopo member messages and found this hillarious personal letter from RokJox, who goes by Lance. And now he's coming off on all the whiners who tattle to Chris and want to see changes. This is funny!

Can you say, HYPOCRITE?
Arne

Hi Arne;

Thanks for the guidebook, I'll try and look at it soon.

Here is something I have been sending to a VERY few, carefully selected ST Posters. It's gone out to a dozen or two people so far, mostly women actually. Your last letter makes me think you might be sympathic to the issue...

I have a message from Chris Mac that he actually suggested I share. As the world now knows, I talked with him over the weekend on the phone. (From the posts on the Topo, you'd think I called Homeland Security or something.) He said he will review everybodys concerns with a more decent site if you will email your stories/feelings to him and include the word "COMPLAINT!" in the subject line so he SEES it. He get hundreds of email spam a day, and just doesn't read most of it.

Do it SOON. It came from HIS mouth. "EMAIL THOSE YOU THINK HAVE A PROBLEM AND ASK THEM TO EMAIL ME" (or words to that effect).

I publically (online) complained about some of the things I was annoyed with, and THAT caused a fuss, when it got out.

I don't like the atmosphere on ST any longer. People are being dumped on, almost constantly. If some don't like what is being said, they have developed techniques to destroy th conversation. I did it, a lot of people are doing it, some much more than most. Especially to the women. Some have had all manner of vile things done, and not just on the site or with words. I have gotten some emails from some of the girls and they have had outrageous problems. There is NO reason women should be treated so poorly.

And I suppose somehow Men must fit in there too.

Many people have had pretty major problems just being nice decent people on that site, and its almost ALL from the same Five Guys. LOCKER and the four hoursemen; Pate, Skipt, Cosmic and the other guy, I can't remember his name.

One woman we ALL respect had pictures of her sold/given to a porno site with HER REAL NAME. She just got married, and says she does NOT post TR reports any more, because she is afraid of what would happen. I have had SEVERAL stories now sent to me like that.

One woman reports she has had all manner of lies about her sex life posted until when she Google's her name, she says the pages are full of it, and other things. Just "fun and games". Nothing serious, right? (Right.)

LEB right now has a photo circulating (FAKE) of HER on her knees with triple E's dragging the floor, its AWFUL. And a pack of bastards bitching that she wasn't pretty as a young woman. Its NOT true and its MEAN and VULGAR and calculated to HURT for NO reason. ITs a VICIOUS attack. It's certainly NOT funny or gentle and playful. They drove her away once, they want to do it again. Her only real "crime" is a baffling desire to talk with climbers. I don't understand it, but its there.

And then their are MY problems, that I never actually have explained, (and won't), but PISS ME OFF. I see no reason to accept a hatchet job like Lockers "amusing" campaign as "fun"

PLEASE pass this on to any others you think would be interested and have had problems, But DON'T let this get out to the Bad Actors, we already know what they think acceptable behaviour is.. DON'T TRUST FATTRAD for instance! If in doubt, leave them OUT. Far better too few than to be drowned out by spambots like Locker and Cosmo.

If we do it quickly, Chris's email list should begin to look pretty interesting with "COMPLAINT!!!" showing up over and over in the subject line, and the same kind of issues in the body of the message.

PLEASE don't hold back, this is it, Be BOLD and HARSH and TRUTHFUL, and MAYBE he will take some action in slapping down those who are causing so much pain. If nothing else, just say how you'd like to see the hurtful behaviour cut back a LITTLE bit.

It's NOT about censorship, it about maintaining a place where discussion and discourse can be had without it being shouted down by FIVE guys who can make a HUNDRED POSTS AN HOUR to drown out that discussion. And we KNOW that when THAT doesn't work, they do REALLY dirty tricks. ESPECIALLY to the WOMEN! There is NO excuse for that.

I believe we can actually make a change for the better. At least for a while.

I DON'T think this should get out to the general population of the Supertopo website just yet. Please allow the women especially to have a chance to say their piece,

Anyway, thats what I sent out to a couple dozen people total. It sounds sorta whiny even to me, but I don't know what else to do. I'm not used to trying to be an activist.

If you were just to copy your last email and forward it to Crhis Mac at Chris@supertopo.com, it would be enough.

RJ you may be right, but then again I may be right. I work for the government and do spend too much time on line but no one I work with has had these issues with facebook and other sites that people around here spend way more time on.

I’ve been reading this site since its inception and the past few years have watched it circle the drain as far as any worthwhile content.

If you really believe that, I'm VERY curious what you consider "worthwhile" content.

I've been reading and writing on this forum since the get-go, back when we didn't even need a username or login. The content here in the last few years is vastly superior in every way. There may be twice as much offtopic bs and vitriol too, but some of that comes along as a natural byproduct ofthe 10-fold increase in users over that time. The whole notion that suddenly all the posters of "worthwhile" content packed up and went away is comical.

Had a student check and they could not access the site as well. If employers are starting to block due to inappropriate material there will be a lot less posting. Do you know how hard it is to type on a phone.

Mike, typically if you are being blocked by a filter at your employer, it will alert you that you've triggered the filter. I get blocked from all kinds of places that are silly, for example if it is classified as a "blog" I can't access it, even if it's say Time Magazine's regular news coverage but calls itself a blog.

Google pics is blocked by one server, but I can re=route through our alternate and the it's not. "Personal" sites are blocked, but they allow access to Facebook (a serious case of WTF?!).

It is very, very unlikely that recent content on the forums has anything to do with your access issues.

This, campers, is why SuperTopo sucks: Chris starts a thread on his thoughts about the Forum and Rokjox and Ionlyski (but it could have been any number of other posters) have a snit, about something, but god only knows what.

No different from you then Roger. Cloggin up the thread with all your Farley crap. I couldn't figure out why you were doing that; kind of like the ponies I guess. Anyway, I agree with you and that's my point.

Rokjox/Lance, relax. I wouldn't have pulled that out after you gave it in trust but you don't look so good right now. Go back to version 1. You don't make a very good bully. You're doing exactly what you were crying about before. It doesn't matter if it's women or not. Your spray of hate stinks.

Have a database - if a particular user's posts are frequently flagged by a large number if different people, then take a look: if you agree, dump the person.

(the different people requirement prevents a single poster from getting many, many flags from the same person, possibly as revenge. There are other ways of doing that - e.g. limiting each poster to one flag per day, or something)

I appreciate the supertopo forum..........I enjoy the greatness, ignore the stuff that does not interest me, stay away from the negetive posts as much as possible, and try to contribe meaningful, entertaining, and upbeat posts......supertopo is like an awesome buffet.....just choose what you like for your plate, don't get what you don't like, don't over-eat, and enjoy what you pick.......

Have a database - if a particular user's posts are frequently flagged by a large number if different people, then take a look: if you agree, dump the person.

Good Idea.

I love the Taco for many reasons:

Most salient are: The Totem Pole thread, Castle Rock Spire, Stoney Point, Southern Sierra and many, many more show the true value of ST.

Many of the "old gang" are right here... almost everyday.

It is sort of how camp 4 was BITD... you needed to be tough and stand up for yourself. If you let folks know something was getting under your skin, you could get piled on fast. But that is just the way climbers are. But one thing was clear, one didn't HATE on someone. You dont like a person,-fine, give em room and look for room for yourself. As long as they climbed and had respect for the Stone they could stay at the fire.

But if some ass started breaking into cars, stealing gear, pissing on tents and otherwise acting in a horrible fashion... it was time to go get the RANGER.....

I appreciate the supertopo forum..........I enjoy the greatness, ignore the stuff that does not interest me, stay away from the negetive posts as much as possible, and try to contribe meaningful, entertaining, and upbeat posts......supertopo is like an awesome buffet.....just choose what you like for your plate, don't get what you don't like, don't over-eat, and enjoy what you pick......

Todd, I agree, but what do you do if a big STEAMER gets tossed into the BLANQUETTE DE VEAU???? Sort of hard to eat around it.

The messaging function should probably be turned off. Seems like alot of dubious stuff is being spread under the radar (so to speak). If I need to say something that important to you, I can look up your number in the phonebook.

I always thought Chris Farley was funny for about 15 seconds, and then he became tiresome. For his humor to remain fresh he needed to always push the envelope, to be more outrageous--but it was only funny for 15 seconds. He had to die young; he had nowhere else to go: SuperTopo hadn’t been created yet.

But I give the guy credit for making it his own.

I posted all my Farley crap because it clogged up the thread with more or less useless pictures of a guy who was famous for acting stupid. It was a stand-in über-poster. I also wanted to express my freedom of expression: I can post whatever I want as long as Chris doesn't ban me.

Sort of a,

Missing photo ID#237426

response to the self-serving justifications of “The forum is just fine for everyone as it is.”

I was also at the time trying to use my own face and identity here, as nothing but another climber, but that was before I decided to go on a war footing. Later, I began taking on the Che Guevara visage to symbolize my new commitment to fighting back HARD. Total war if necessary.

My vote is to break this forum up into categories. I realize the changeover and archiving would be horrendous but there are way too many divergent topics on one page. For me, it takes too much time to plough through so I stay away. Some organization would be greatly appreciated!

Hmm. Is that bump tied to Dr. F over posting and subsequent disappearance? Hmmm Dr F had over 44,000 posts and every one that he posted, along with all the treads he started, have vanished off the face of the Supertopo earth.