I was always a big fan of movement speed on boots, but do you guys with the mindflay glyph and our lvl 30 talents its still superior to haste?

Hmm, good point - I've been advocating speed boot enchants for so long I didn't really reconsider that assumption for MoP - but we have so many minor movement speed bonuses now and they don't stack with boot enchants that it may not be worth advocating when you have body and soul, mind flay glyph, etc.

Maybe I should swap it, anyone want to support/deny Turtle's suggestion? Haste is quite a bit better than mastery before the plateau, it could definitely be a worthwhile dps upgrade.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 05:35 AM ----------

Originally Posted by axxey

For example from last nights very scrappy first stone guard 25man kill for us as 2 undead priests.
27 ticks in 7min 27second fight, 433000damage, average 16049 per tick, 1.7% of total damage.
22 ticks, 364000damage, average 16525 per tick, 2.1% of total damage <-- switched to healing when healers went down

25 ticks for undead rogue, 416000damage, 16662 per tick, 1.6% of total damage <-- blade flurry throws it out but thought I'd put the comparison in.

Thanks for the help!

Ok so for the first line: 433000 damage / 447 seconds = 967 DPS

Second line: 364000 damage / 447 seconds = 814 DPS

Third line: 930 DPS

The second line we should be aware of that it wasn't dealing DPS for part of the fight, so 814 DPS is abnormally low. I expected 1400 DPS to be abnormally high because I was using instant activation on the ICD when it only actually has a 20% proc chance (but procs on all damage hits), so 1400 DPS is unlikely - but clearly 950-1000 DPS is entirely reasonable. I'll get a rough conversion table for int to dps gain at various gear levels - that should see whether 1000 DPS is a better racial than 300 int.

Thanks again!

Edit: Oh, of course that means it's also providing 1000 HPS - that's a pretty awesome racial! Originally when wow launched I wanted to go undead because duh - undeadness - but the gaps in armor at the elbows and knees really bothered me (like trolls not wearing shoes) - otherwise I'd be undead right now!

How are you using the mechanics of Shadow Orbs stack up to 3 to use DP or always use the DP on CD keeping active??
I am having problems with dps....

I do MB>VT>SF>DP(1orb)>SW:P>MF

Always wait until you have 3 orbs before using Devouring Plague (there are very absurd exceptions, but 99.9% of the time this is true) - Ariadne is saying before a raid boss attempt, after a wipe - when you don't have trash or critters to build orbs before the pull - you obviously don't start with devouring plague, so instead focus on getting your orb generators and damage cooldowns (Halo, Shadowfiend) on cooldown as soon as possible.

Always wait until you have 3 orbs before using Devouring Plague (there are very absurd exceptions, but 99.9% of the time this is true) - Ariadne is saying before a raid boss attempt, after a wipe - when you don't have trash or critters to build orbs before the pull - you obviously don't start with devouring plague, so instead focus on getting your orb generators and damage cooldowns (Halo, Shadowfiend) on cooldown as soon as possible.

I've not crunched the numbers completely yet, but there is a breaking point where the damage done by a 2-orb or 1-orb DP "plus procs" will outdps the alternative. At 85, it was about 1000 PP. Basic idea is if you have several _temporary_ procs running, you may want to "orb dump" before they run out. (I'm not writing guides anymore, so before people start "throwing the gauntlet", I'm not interested in getting dragged into a debate about whether this works or not. But the idea is there for anyone who wants to take it farther and find the exact values where it's worth it.)

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 10:02 AM ----------

Originally Posted by SkillOverKill

Hmm, good point - I've been advocating speed boot enchants for so long I didn't really reconsider that assumption for MoP - but we have so many minor movement speed bonuses now and they don't stack with boot enchants that it may not be worth advocating when you have body and soul, mind flay glyph, etc.

Maybe I should swap it, anyone want to support/deny Turtle's suggestion? Haste is quite a bit better than mastery before the plateau, it could definitely be a worthwhile dps upgrade.

Quantifying the amount of dps a run speed enchant is worth has always been a very biased discussion. My rule of thumb for whether or not a run speed enchant is necessary has always been to answer a very simple question - did you die on X fight because you couldn't get out of the fire fast enough? If the answer is no, then you don't need a run speed enchant. Obviously this answer varies from person to person based on their reaction speed and hand-eye coordination, so in a guide situation, you can't really give a blanket statement to the masses.

Most guilds err on the side of caution. I've raided with a lot of guilds who felt the run speed enchants were mandatory, and practically tarred and feathered any raider who didn't get them.

Personally speaking, I can think of only a handful of situations over the past 3 expansions where I felt the enchant was truly justified as a necessity. Heroic Litch King and Defile is a very good example of such a fight where I felt the raid leaders were completely justified in bitching out anyone who didn't take the enchant.

But now? In my opinion, anyone who comes at me with a "why no run speed enchant" will have the talent "Body and Soul" linked to them. I'll be pretty shocked if I find any fights this entire expac where a 30 sec run CD plus a self shield won't get me out of any bad "stuff on the ground" situation I encounter. I'm not saying there won't be a few fights where we still need it, but at this point I would consider run speed enchants to be an optional/secondary enchant at best. Something you use on a "per fight" basis, and only if you feel you just simply can't do without it.

Why do people put fiend so early into the rotation? If the fight is 3 minutes long you only get to use it once, so wait for procs or jsut before lust. If it is 5 minutes long then you need to use it early sure, but not your 2nd/3rd spell. Wait for procs inside the first 30s or so, then release him if stuff didnt line up for you. Or similarly if you know you will get lust 6 minutes into the fight you have the first 90 seconds or so to find a good spot to use him. Am I incorrect in these assumptions? Might be something glaringly obvious I am missing.

Why do people put fiend so early into the rotation? If the fight is 3 minutes long you only get to use it once, so wait for procs or jsut before lust. If it is 5 minutes long then you need to use it early sure, but not your 2nd/3rd spell. Wait for procs inside the first 30s or so, then release him if stuff didnt line up for you. Or similarly if you know you will get lust 6 minutes into the fight you have the first 90 seconds or so to find a good spot to use him. Am I incorrect in these assumptions? Might be something glaringly obvious I am missing.

You are correct in your thinking, jobbly, but so many people have objected to this perspective that I'm not bothering to argue for it until my spreadsheets are finished.

Why do people put fiend so early into the rotation? If the fight is 3 minutes long you only get to use it once, so wait for procs or jsut before lust. If it is 5 minutes long then you need to use it early sure, but not your 2nd/3rd spell. Wait for procs inside the first 30s or so, then release him if stuff didnt line up for you. Or similarly if you know you will get lust 6 minutes into the fight you have the first 90 seconds or so to find a good spot to use him. Am I incorrect in these assumptions? Might be something glaringly obvious I am missing.

Hello, im new to priest, didn't want to open new topic, just wanted to ask - since my priest is engi, isn't going to be better to pick up Mindbender instead of FDCL? Since the 1min cd on Minbender will match really nice with the synapse springs, since they're both on 1min CD?
Thanks.

Originally Posted by Misume

The day the Mythic Progression Thread isn't 95% trolling is the day Prime comes back to power.

Current Haste cap (non-Gob) is 8085 rating. That's for single target encounters. For 2+ target encounters (ie Stone Dogs) Haste will continue to be your best secondary stat even above the 8085 single target cap.

Current Haste cap (non-Gob) is 8085 rating. That's for single target encounters. For 2+ target encounters (ie Stone Dogs) Haste will continue to be your best secondary stat even above the 8085 single target cap.

I was trying to think of a good name to call the first bosses, I was thinking something like Dog Council or Three Dog Night - but Stone Dogs made me think of it

Why do people put fiend so early into the rotation? If the fight is 3 minutes long you only get to use it once, so wait for procs or jsut before lust. If it is 5 minutes long then you need to use it early sure, but not your 2nd/3rd spell. Wait for procs inside the first 30s or so, then release him if stuff didnt line up for you. Or similarly if you know you will get lust 6 minutes into the fight you have the first 90 seconds or so to find a good spot to use him. Am I incorrect in these assumptions? Might be something glaringly obvious I am missing.

I'm normally running mindbender so having it on CD early means you might get an extra use in the fight. Certainly you want it up in the first 10-15 seconds.