A Place of My Own

I won’t be writing about the personal aspects of the divorce at Get Rich Slowly. In fact, other than some brief background at my personal site, I don’t intend to write it about it on the web at all. Kris and I are both emotional wrecks right now; the wounds are fresh and raw for both of us.

Note: Kris and I are working together to build the best possible relationship going forward. We’ve seen folks go through bitter divorces, and neither of us wants that. We want to remain close friends. So far we’ve been successful.

That said, I can no longer avoid sharing the truth with GRS readers. Too many of my financial decisions — present and future — are tied to the divorce. I’m hunting for health insurance, for instance, and I’ll have to re-evaluate my asset allocation. And ten days ago, I moved to a new apartment.

Living Small
For the past eight years, Kris and I have lived in an 1800-square-foot house on three-fifths of an acre. The place also includes a large garage, a workshop, and a couple of out-buildings. Plus, I’ve been leasing an office up the street. Despite working to reduce clutter in my life, I have a lot of Stuff. I’ve written a lot about wanting to simplify, about wanting to live in a smaller space, but I’ve been reluctant to take the necessary action.

Now, though, I’m moving. And because I’m moving, I feel obligated to practice what I preach. While part of me wants to find another house (Kris is keeping ours), I know it’s better to find a smaller space and to adjust my life to fit it. Thus, I’ve been looking to see how some of my friends manage to live not-so-big lives.

For instance, last fall Tammy — who writes about simplicity at Rowdy Kittens (and who shared a GRS reader story about the benefits of biking) — moved into a tiny house. The entire home is only 130 square feet! She and her husband had me over for dinner recently, and I shot some video of the space:

I loved Tammy and Logan’s tiny house. The floor plan is well-designed and functional. Still, I’m not ready to live that small just yet.

Instead, I opted to rent an apartment.

The Apartment
While most folks were spending Thanksgiving week, well, giving thanks, I was hunting for apartments. Some might consider going from house to apartment a step backward. I don’t mind. In fact, as I’ve mentioned before, I actually believe renting can be a great choice for the right person. In this case, I think I’m the right person.

While searching for a place to live, I tried to take a lot of things into account. Price was important, obviously, but so was the age of the place, the layout, and, especially, the location. Over the past five years, I’ve come to place a premium on walkable neighborhoods, and I know I wanted an apartment with a high walk score.

I found a place I liked in a good location near downtown Portland — the biggest drawback is that it’s right next to a donut shop (danger! danger!) — and signed a lease. But then I started to worry that I was paying too much. By comparing notes with other people, I’ve since decided that while I’m not getting a bargain, my rent is reasonable.

Best of all, the apartment has a walk score of 88 (very walkable) and a transit score of 73 (excellent transit). And because I’m an avid walker, I can reach neighborhoods that the Walk Score app doesn’t consider. (As a comparison, our house has a walk score of 49, meaning car-dependent, and a transit score of 32, which means it has some transit.)

I’ve been in my new place for ten days now, and I like it — but it doesn’t feel like home. Still, I’m trying to make the most of these 705 square feet. Instead of just talking about how much I want to cut back on clutter, I’ve been faced with tough decisions every day. Which books do I keep? Which comics? How many pairs of shoes? How many jackets? Do I really need (or want) my records and record player?

By making judicious choices (and with the help of some new furniture from Ikea), I think I’ve reached a good balance. My new place contains the things I need — but it’s not filled with a lot of clutter and junk. It’s my hope that this will continue for the foreseeable future.

Fear of the Future
Now that I have a place to live — and now that I’m mostly unpacked — there are other problems to tackle as a result of the divorce.

For one, how do I handle health insurance? For eighteen years, I’ve been on Kris’ policy. Not anymore. After the divorce is final, I have only a few weeks (or maybe even just a few days) before my coverage with her carrier lapses. I’m the sort of guy who might risk going without health insurance for a few months or years, but Kris won’t have it. “We are not getting a divorce until you can prove to me that you have health insurance,” she told me the other day.

Meanwhile, what do I do about my office? Does it make sense to continue to rent that space? Should I find someplace closer? More importantly, what about day-to-day stuff like laundry and groceries. Obviously, I’m capable of handling these chores on my own, but due to the division of labor within our marriage, I’ve always relied on Kris to handle most of these chores. Now I’m going to have to budget for food, plan meals, and buy supplies on my own.

Kris has lots of questions about the future too. She’s still in the house, after all. How will she handle the yard work? Who’s going to take care of her car? And so on. But she too is capable of handling these things on her own. Besides, we both agree that figuring out the chores is inconsequential to figuring out the big stuff, the emotional stuff.

For now, Kris and I are still in constant contact. We had dinner Friday night, I drove by the house yesterday, and we’ll have dinner together tomorrow night. Plus, we still plan to share a vacation to Argentina in a few weeks. If one of us gets into trouble, the other will be there to help. Our marriage may be ending, but our friendship isn’t.

I have to agree. Kris is a truly awesome lady who cares about your health and that’s how divorce should happen. In a way that both can still care about the welfare of each other, especially since you guys have kids.

Many 15+ years relations go through a period of separation/ divorce. I always urge legal separation over divorce for at least five year UNLESS there is another person in the picture. There is a period of shake up. It is a growth spurt. About 75% of my friends who separated are together again now. The other ones have moved along to another relationship. Those who started with divorce have never gotten back together.
Having a parent or partner in crisis often starts the relationship flaws coming to light- pushing the “I have so much to do…”
Think about it.
Slow dow, Look at separation and keep the health insurance.
Doesn’t sound like it is really over from here.

Hi –I agree with Janette and others that you can’t know what the future of this relationship will be, and it is great that you are currently working on keeping a friendship if not a marriage. What two people who care for each other need in/from a relationship can change over time, and it’s not always necessary to try to use the names and definitions that are the most visible/dominant in the culture. Many years ago Crystal Eastman wrote an essay titled, “Marriage under two roofs” in which she described one ideal situation — which allowed the partners a lot more separate time while still recognizing an essential bond. I have a friend who has been divorced for many years, and yet she knows that her former husband (neither has remarried) would be there is she needs him (like when she was flooded out of her house, he and his brother arrived and spent months helping her rebuild) and she for him.

Wow! My wife and I have been separated for 7 months now. We still love each other but a suicide in our lives changed the way we look at things and what we want in life. I’ve been thinking about writing to J.D. about how this and it has impacted my financial decisions. I still hold hope that we can end or separation and continue or marriage.

J.D.’s note: Mark, a very astute long-time friend today noted that many of my values seemed to shift when my best friend committed suicide three years ago this week. She’s right. I can’t say that everything that’s happened in the past three years is the result of Sparky’s death, but that one event has had a tremendous impact on my life and decisions.

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MFsays:

26 January 2012 at 8:40 am

I agree with Janette and Elisabeth. Give it a little longer with a separation, think, meet and talk, and see what happens.

“Having a parent or partner in crisis often starts the relationship flaws coming to light- pushing the “I have so much to do…” ”

Having lost both my parents within 9 months, I can relate to this statement. One benefit to having kids in a relationship is that it slows down your reaction time. I agree, take it slow. Great advice on the health insurance, also. It would be a much better deal to pay the wife a premium on her plan than to get an individual plan. Who wants to make the insurance companies richer?

As a long time follower, and not that I know you personally, but I can’t say that I’m totally surprised by this news. You have had huge changes in your life over the last few years, changes in your career, changes in your personal finances, changes in how you live your life and how you spend your time, it only makes sense that all those changes might cause a disconnect or a separation with your significant other.

Change is going to happen over one’s lifetime, as I say change is the only constant, but you have had a ton of change in a short period of time and if you guys are not growing and changing in the same directions that can spell trouble.

I wish you both the best of luck. I know it can be difficult making decisions right now, so the best thing may be to not make any major decisions (as per Dave Ramsey – give it 6 mos. before making major decisions after a life changing event). Just “be” instead of “do”. You will end up where you need to be, but maybe not where you intended.

Sorry to hear. All the very best to your future life, both of you. Would miss GRS garden project but looking forward to see some apartment projects in this space as we also are an apartment living souls.

I went through a serious financial crisis after the divorce that I’m still recovering from. It’s hard to budget after being used to a two income lifestyle for years. I spent more money because I found I had much more alone time where I got bored. I know you think about your finances all the time, but a divorce can really make you change some of your preconceptions.

Also, my ex and I tried really hard to remain friends also. That can get tricky. We’ve done the back and forth thing because we really do get along well as friends. Now we are friendly but keep a respectful distance.

Honestly, I re-read that first sentence more than once before looking to see if it was actually J.D. that was writing the post and not a guest post.
On the one hand, I’m deeply saddened to hear the news. On the other, perhaps a congratulations is in order. Lots of people stay in relationships they shouldn’t and maybe this was the case here. While lots of readers may want to know more details, always respect your right to privacy and especially that of Kris.
In either case, I do commend you for posting this and wish you BOTH the best of luck in life.

I too, had to reread the first sentance more than once. I read your blog/posts everyday. I don’t know you personally but was momentarily sadden by the news. Thank you for sharing. I look forward to facing your future. I wish you and Kris happiness in your new normal.

Add me to the list of people who did a double take to make sure it was J.D. writing this post. What timing, too… my husband and I just split, and I moved into a place of my own one week ago, so I can really relate to where you’re at. My best wishes to you and Kris. That you’re remaining friends speaks volumes about both of you.

I’m saddened, too. Condolences to you and Kris, I’m certain this decision was not made lightly and you both will end up as better people a few months from now. I started reading your blog a couple of years ago after my divorce, and it’s been such a help and motivator for positive change. Be good to yourselves.

This made me LOL! This was my #1 huge pet peeve about my ex – well aside from the excessive spending, cheating, spending, cheating; etc etc etc – the fact that he couldn’t/wouldn’t do laundry infuriated me every day of my life…I still hate doing laundry to this day!!!

I suggest finding a laundromat with a fluff and fold or wash and fold service as a trial while you have bigger things to worry about doing your laundry. If you’re in a walkable neighborhood there’s probably one around, or certainly near any student neighborhood. A good price is 1 – 1.1 $/lb, but I’ve heard of up to 1.5 $/lb. 10 lb minimums are common and a good place should offer same day service if you drop it off in the morning.

It may not be economical long term, especially if you work out a lot. The balance changes if you don’t have a washer dryer in your apartment and the building ones are pricey. It’s also a great trick if you’re traveling to avoid expensive hotel laundry prices.

Sorry to hear it, JD, though not really surprised – while reading some of your travel writing (when you wrote about how much you enjoyed traveling alone), I thought to myself, “I wonder how his marriage can hold up if he’s thinking like that?” Regardless, good luck in whatever comes next.

+1
Thinking the same thing also. I don’t know anybody who takes multiple vacations/work trips alone for weeks at a time without it impacting a marriage.
Nevertheless, I was saddened by this news but hope some good comes out of it.

It’s very possible to have a healthy marriage with people in the marriage taking solo trips and each person doing what he or she loves on their own or with friends. I know dozens of examples like this, especially in a town like DC where lots of couples both have exciting, demanding jobs or both people love to travel but might prefer different locations or different travel activities. There are many models of marriage that work well.

J.D., i’m sorry to hear your news. My thoughts are with you and Kris during this difficult transition.

This may sound strange, but as an apartment dweller I suggest putting up pictures on your wall as soon as– maybe some blown up shots from your trips or friends and family? I found that one thing added some personality to my otherwise generic apartment and helped it feel more like home.

my momma read somewhere to put up at least three photos: one with you and your family (maybe parents/siblings) having a good time, one with you and your friends having a good time, and one of someplace you love to go.

condolences to you both; best wishes for the future.

also, you’ll come to love an apartment. anything happens at all ever? not your problem, call the landlord.

I am very, very sorry to hear this. For regular readers, this is still a surprise though perhaps not a shock, given the subtext of some of your recent posts. I can only join the chorus of well-wishing for you both. Best of luck to each of you during this difficult time.

It doesn’t make good financial sense to continue to rent an office space when you have a good sized apartment. The money you save on rent can go towards your insurance. I am sure there are other considerations, but 700+ sq.ft. is a good amount of space for one person.
I follow the Tiny House blog and there are tiny homes out there for a weekend rental-so you can try it on for “size”. Just an FYI for the future.
Life goes on and so do we.Best wishes to you both.

Sorry to hear this news, J.D. and Kris.It is true there’s been more than a little subtext of issues, but one always assumes that if the couple is able to articulate the issues that they are dealing with them. But I see now, that articulating them can help in other ways… in that you’re remaining friends.

I agree with Trisha that for the moment, especially as you’re in such a walkable part of Portland, that you should try to work from home, JD. You shouldn’t run from one cubbyhole (home) to another (office), for a change of pace. My advice would be to enjoy your new location and get out-and-about in it as much as you can, and put as much as you can of that $500 towards healthcare coverage.

I think right now there might be some value for JD in getting out and about. I also think separating work and home can be a very good thing. In spite of the whole I-blog-in-my-sweatpants image, GRS is a serious endeavour and should be treated as any other business.

I agree – keep the office for 90 days. JD just moved out of his home, is setting up a new one, and the hours away from the apartment could be valuable for sanity’s sake. Don’t change everything about your life all at once.

I’d keep the office for 90 days to provide continuity for “this is where I go to work” space. Not sure if you have acquaintances there, or how the building is set up, but having familiar faces around is always a good thing when working alone.

I just read that you need to be EXTREMELY careful about that, because depending on how/what you write off, you can’t actually do anything but work in the space you claim to work in. I’d be very careful about following this advice.

Ditto on the home office deduction. I heard it’s also a red flag for an audit. I’ve spoken to a few accountants about it, and they have all said that the time you invest in filling out the forms, etc., isn’t worth it for just $100.

But back to JD: I’m sorry to hear about your divorce, and I wish you both the best.

While I was very sad to read that first statement, I can’t say I am surprised. As a long time reader, I’ve caught several references to your desire to change your living arrangement. Kris likes the big house. You don’t. Kris seems to be happy with the status quo and you are wanting to shake things up.

It’s just sad you can’t find a way to change together. Or maybe you can and this is just part of that.

In any case, best of luck to both of you, especially as you navigate these turbulent waters.

Unlike Anne, I know that sometimes life changes and we change, and that sometimes what worked great for 20 years doesn’t work anymore. Sometimes it’s best to end situations which aren’t beneficial to those involved, including divorce.

Only you and Kris know if that applies to you here, and I do wish you the best in this journey. I wish you both the strength to make decisions, the patience to think things through, and the foresight to know if things are right for you (whatever those ‘things’ may be).

Both of you lean on your friends, and like Becky said (comment #3) just be. Whatever is supposed to happen will, painful as it might be.

While Anne could have worded it much more judiciously and kindly, I certainly understand her sentiment. I don’t know J.D., nor Kris, so the question I ask here is not for them but rather one I ask myself as a married woman after reading this blog and watching (in very subtle ways) the progression towards divorce:

What is the point of success, money, or personal enlightenment if it leads you farther away rather than closer to the ones you love most?

Money, success, and personal enlightenment may have nothing to do with the distance between us and the ones we no longer love, continue to love, or will love in the future.

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Bethsays:

16 January 2012 at 3:18 pm

I can see both sides of this issue, and it’s not up to me to choose one.

I just think it’s sad if we only offer understanding and compassion to people when we agree with their actions. I’m not saying people have to agree with those actions, but there’s something to be said for not adding more hurt to an already painful situation.

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Carlasays:

16 January 2012 at 4:02 pm

Why does it *always* have to be so cut and dry; one or the other? It is possible to have both, even if the person we in some ways look up to does not *seem* (from our own narrow eyes) to have it at the moment.

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Andrewsays:

16 January 2012 at 9:16 am

Anne, given the unpleasantness and lack of charity in your comment, I can only conclude that the “tiny heart” you speak of must be your own.

People change. Sometimes this can be worked through and sometimes it can’t. It is no one’s business but his.
No reader is entitled to judge J.D.’s actions. He is doing what he needs to do — and don’t for a moment think that this is easy for him.

To address the health insurance question, you need to go see a health insurance broker. A broker will shop all the available plans and is paid a commission by the insurance company, not you. (I am dear friends with a broker in my area.) If you do not develop a good relationship or the vibe is wrong from who you went to see, find another one.

JD, I’m so sorry to hear this. Having been with my DH for more than 20 years, this hits close to home. I agree with other posters that the tone of your posts for the past year have been emphasizing the “me” rather than the “we”, so it’s not as much of a surprise as you might think.

In regards to the health insurance and divorce, keep in mind that a divorce is considered a “qualifying event”, and you should be eligible for COBRA coverage in Kris’ policy for 18 months post-divorce – for a hefty sum. It might be your best bet for some continuity, though.

Lastly, I REALLY like the idea of a separation for you two, rather than moving straight to divorce. Taking it slow in the process is not necessarily a bad thing.

I have never been through a divorce, but my understanding is that you can get COBRA from your former spouse’s health plan. I think you pay them directly. It doesn’t solve the problem long term, but it does buy you 18 months to find another option.

Please make sure you take care of your self. In all of this hullabaloo there is a large risk for getting lost in all the details. Thank goodness you both have remained friends and i commend you on this.

Best advice is to just slow down and take it easy. Reevaluation is about transformation and change. This doesn’t come easy but it does come naturally. One step at a time.

I’m really sorry to read this and like a previous poster I did a double take to see who was writing it. But I have to tell you, I’m not that surprised. There have been many clues in your writing over the past year or so that had me wondering about the state of your marriage.

Honestly I really enjoyed when you wrote about your life with Kris and when she wrote about gardening and canning.

Best of luck to both of you.

J.D.’s note: I asked Kris tonight if she’d still be willing to contribute posts about gardening and canning. She said “maybe”.

JD, having gone through a divorce myself in the last couple of years, it’s my thought that given the fact that Kris didn’t want the divorce, perhaps this isn’t the time to be asking her to do things for you in the future, such as contributing to your blog.

Hopefully this doesn’t come off as too harsh, but I think it would be more appropriate to separate yourself and let her soak all of this in and deal with it, rather than asking for possible commitments that will keep her tied to you.

I understand that you’re both still “friends” but at this point it’s better to not rely on her for things that she did for you as your wife.

I, too, am sorry to hear this. Allow me though to wonder if there’s a higher incidence of divorce between couples who maintain different accounts or who treat their relationships as sort of a business arrangements.

Nothing personal against JD, his persona comes through this blog as a “good guy”. But I can’t help but wonder if those who go into a relationship with a yours vs. mine approach typically don’t have as much chance of sticking together through the rought times. This is the contrast to the more “traditional” approach of melting together your lives in every way, including financials.

And I’m certainly not saying that those who meld together completely don’t get divorced (and perhaps it’s messier when that do!) Rather, those older couples that I know who have been married for decades all tend to have the traditional approach of everything is “ours”. Sure, they may have some play money on the side, but the gist of it is “togetherness”.

It’s the same argument peoople have with prenuptual agreements. If you’re going into it wondering what would happen when you get out, you’re alreay allowing for an “out”.

Another question I have regarding the “business arrangement” type of relationship is what happens when you get older. Take JD and Kris for example. Let’s say they’re in their 70′s, and Kris gets a terrible disease that eats through her savings. Would the couple still take a yours vs. mine approach? Or if Kris’ disease (let’s say cancer, for example) made it so that she could not help with household chores. Would JD do them and take money for his piggy bank for doing the work?

Again, nothing against JD or Kris. I’m just uncertain on how people keep “separate but equal” in a relationship. it didn’t work for the American population when it came to rights, and I don’t know how it works in a marriage.

J.D.’s note: Kris and I want to assure everyone that the separate accounts had nothing to do with this. And, in fact, when it comes to divorce, separate accounts might as well not even exist because everything is treated as shared equally (at least in Oregon).

I don’t think there is a correlation between separate accounts and divorce.

For every divorced couple that you might claim had too much separateness, I think I could show you a divorced couple that jumped wholeheartedly into the idea of togetherness without actual shared values or other solid foundation to warrant it.

(and the same applies, I think, for prenups)

and I say this from the perspective of having shared finances and no prenup… but that doesn’t make us a stronger couple than those who differ, it’s just how our personalities approach these things.

For purposes of divorce, separate accounts don’t matter, but I wonder too if having separate accounts leads spouses to think separately about their finances and to further think separately about their life.

I’ve asked JD about this in the past and about their retirement plans since they divided their shared costs. I never got a clear understanding about this issue and one that I always wondered about. I have a dear friend who has a prenup and keeps her finances separate from her husband and we’ve discussed this issue. She makes more, they split the shared costs in funky way (in my mind). She is responsible for more of their shared costs so he actually seems to end up with more un-allocated monies that he spends on toys. He does not max out his retirement accounts and since they have no shared plan probably doesn’t think he has the money to do so.

I asked her what she is going to do in retirement, a similar question I’ve posed to JD, she is savings but he is not. I’ve said, you are not going to let him go hungry are you? She responds that she will pick up the slack, so don’t you want him to max out his tax advantaged savings now? She thought that was an interesting question so maybe she would fund his IRA.

I just don’t see how a couple can plan for the future with separate accounts? Maybe they can but it seems like it would take a lot more work. I understand why my friend keeps her separate b/c she has a prenup and really has to based on the prenup but if she stays married to him I think this separate planning, or lack of planning, is going to cause more trouble in the long run

I’m still going through all 280+ comments on this post, but would like to add my $0.02 to the question on how much separate financial arrangements might affect a marriage. I’ve been married to my DH for nearly 26 years, and from Day One we have kept our money in separate accounts. When we became parents, money that was “ours” vs. his and mine did become more fluid, but we still don’t want or need a joint account. While I would never say never to the possibility of a divorce, it doesn’t seem likely (or desirable) in our case.

DH and I definitely have different interests and desires to spend our time differently, but it works for us because (a) we’re both introverts and (b) while different, they’re complimentary. He likes to watch movies in the basement; I like to read. When we sit down to a meal together, he tells me about what he’s watching and I tell him about what I’m reading, or we talk about people we know or our jobs or the news. If he couldn’t relate at all to what I was doing with my life or vice versa, that would be an indication that perhaps there’s not enough common ground to build (or keep) a life together.

DH & I like to talk together. We try to eat together, even if we fix separate meals (which happens often). We have the same sense of humor and our jokes are in the same vein. We like each other’s company, even though we’ll often spend time on different activities in different parts of the house. On the rare occasions we argue, we cool off separately, then come together to hash it out again, and continue until some resolution takes place (compromise, agree to disagree). We say “I love you” each day, and always before going to sleep at night. And we keep our money separate because we know in that area, we don’t get along well. We each have our space so we can breathe but our spaces aren’t so far apart from each other to estrange us. I think those things are what keep us together.

I think a lot of your points are valid. Even though we have joint accounts, we also have our own checking accounts that we use for day to day spending, i.e. our allowance money, as it would be too difficult for us to work from one account.

But I wonder, and perhaps you’ll share, how you manage the joint planning for retirement, for your kids’ college expenses, etc. if your finances are totally separate from each other.

Mr. Sam wouldn’t be able to max out his 401k or his IRA if our finances were separate, but b/c I make more than he does and b/c our planning is joint and b/c our expenses are handled in a joint fashion he can do so. As a result, he collected close to $6000 in company match last year. If he was on his own that is money that would be left on the table.

Retirement savings are our employers’ 401K plans so those are also separate. We have one child with no plans (or ability, at this point) for more. We both work at Boston-area colleges that grant tuition remission for children of employees if accepted (and DH’s college also grants limited tuition remission for certain other colleges), so as long as DS is accepted into one of a handful of local schools, we’re using that loophole. He can live at home (which he wants to do) and we can afford fees and books. As long as we continue to be frugal and don’t lose our jobs, it should work.

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Nathansays:

18 January 2012 at 2:22 pm

I’ll be honest, I thought the same thing.

I’ve always thought the separate accounts advice JD gave was bad. It implies a lack of unity and trust with respect to shared goals, and tends to cultivate the idea that marriage is, in your heart of hearts, not REALLY permanent.

Having separate accounts serves no practical purpose, other than to encourage the idea that you are separate … not a unit, not partners, but two individuals who just happen to live together. You never fight about money, because you never have to talk about money. Such a deeply flawed strategy.

Dave Ramsey has always warned against this. And while I’m not saying that it’s impossible to have a lasting marriage with separate accounts, I completely believe that it weakens the bond between husband and wife.

I wholeheartedly agree. I also feel that having ‘his’ and ‘hers’ in regards to money can lead to bouts of resentment, jealously, competetiveness (which may or may not be good for a marriage), one person feeling less competent (respect issues), and often a lack of trust.

I couldn’t disagree more. I have been married for 53 years and we have always had a his/hers/ours arrangement. I think that in my case, it helped to strengthen my marriage. We have always considered ourselves a team and have developed and worked toward our goals together–mortgages, 5 children, college, retirement, and now spoiling our 17 grandchildren and 5 great granchildren. The separate accounts is nice now because it makes Christmas and Valentines a little easier since we don’t see each others purchases on statements. I got married at a time when single income families were the rule instead of the exception, so most of my friends had to ask their husbands for money. I have always appreciated the respect shown to me by my husband then by giving me money with no strings. Siince I began earning my own money, I like not fighting about how much I spend on lunch with my mah-jong group or how much he spends on lunch with his golf buddies.

However, my point is really that he best money system (or any system really) for a marriage is whichever system works for both partners. Just because the system wouldn’t work for you or you can’t understand it, doesn’t make it wrong.

I also know that what keeps a marriage going and what can take it apart are unique to each marriage. As little as we really know J.D. and Kris, it’s disrespectful and shortsighted to speculate in this way.

J.D. and Kris, I’m so sorry for you both and wish you both the best in such a difficult time.

I wondered the same thing, not because keeping separate finances makes couples keep the rest of their lives separate, but because I’ve noticed that couples who have completely separate finances seem to have those separate finances because they don’t want to combine their lives completely. IMO couples who keep completely separate finances either have the idea in the back of their minds that the separate finances will make it simpler if they ever decided to divorce (not that they ever think it’s likely to happen when they get married) OR there’s something wrong with their marriage that makes them not want to fully combine their lives (often something that may not even be readily apparent to the couple or that they’d even be able to articulate). I guess what I’m saying is that it seems like couples who keep completely separate finances view marriage as 50:50, rather than 100:100 (or 95:95), which can lead to more score-keeping and an unhealthy relationship.

Oh, I read this with a heavy heart. My husband passed away more than two years ago and when I hear of people separating I always see it through my own filter of missing my partner. It’s been so hard to adjust to not having that rock-solid relationship with the person who knew me best. But I’m sure it is easier to heal and move on when voluntarily chosen. Best of luck to you both.

I wish the best for Kris. If the subtext of your prior posts did not sound like every other man’s justifications (hint: cliche) for leaving a long marriage, I might wish the best for you, but I cannot. Shaking my head with a sigh, over here. I can only hope that Kris is going to have as much support or more than you, who has so many people on the web to pat you on the back and hold your hand.

J.D.’s note: Kris is fortunate to have many fantastic friends who are lending her support during this process. We’re both grateful for that.

I have to agree with this comment as well as the separate but equal comment. While I would say it asaburbtly as Anne did, my sympathies are all with Kris. This is not a joint decision, it’s your decision. You’ve decided to leave her behind as far as I can see. No sympathy here. Frankly, it sounds like typical middle aged stuff, and I suspect youll regret it in a couple of years.

You, not Kris, have been making I decisions instead of we decisions if this blog is any indication for quite some time. Selfish? You bet.

Andrew
If you read the link JD provided to his other blog – you would see that indeed, this is a JD decision. Kris doesn’t want the divorce, JD asked for it.

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Wessays:

16 January 2012 at 9:45 am

You should read the post JD links to on his personal site; he makes it very clear that the decision is his and that Kris “disagrees” that it [the divorce] is in their best interests.

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Johnsays:

16 January 2012 at 10:43 am

Committment means just that, not one is commited until they decide not to be. All the support should be going out to Kris, not another selfish middle age guy who doesn’t go through every last effort to try to make it work. And yes, I don’t know you or your situation, but I didn’t read a thing about finding a way to make things right.

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Andrewsays:

16 January 2012 at 1:01 pm

You guys are right–I hadn’t read the other stuff available through the link. I’m sorry I didn’t look before I leapt!

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Jennasays:

16 January 2012 at 6:27 pm

Barb read my mind in regards to feeling more for Kris. Interesting that JD’s insights come after he is doing well financially, traveling, working on health, etc. All things that Kris probably encouraged throughout their long marriage. Perhaps we don’t know the whole situation but what we do know screams cliche.

J.D.’s note: You’re making an assumption. My decision came after all these things, but that doesn’t mean there’s any sort of causal relationship. Yes, I know it seems like there’s one on the surface. But there’s not.

Jenna’s assumptions, J.D., and those of many who think like her, presumably come from a careful reading of the blog in recent months. Your decision to ask for a divorce would have come not long after a vacation you took without Kris (which was the subject of much debate in the blog comments at the time), and in the comments of the “Big House, Little House” post that raised some giant red flags back in June, you yourself conceded: “But I seem to be going through some sort of minor mid-life crisis.” No one wants to see himself as a cliche, and indeed not everyone in your position ends up being one, but to those of us who’ve seen this play out time and time again within our own circles of friends and family, your story looks pretty textbook (and frankly has been paint-by-numbers predictable ever since you sold the blog and entered a new phase of navel-gazing).

To be clear, I don’t for a second think that you’re saying anything about your reasons for requesting a divorce that you don’t, at the moment, wholeheartedly believe. But I would suggest that just as it’s possible that a year, or five years, or twenty years from now, you’ll feel as justified in having ended the marriage as you do today, it is equally possible that you’ll find your current angst was not particularly unique or any different than what some of your harsher critics in this thread see it as.

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Lydiasays:

16 January 2012 at 8:15 am

I am new to your blog, as of last week, and am sorry to hear of the divorce. Never easy.

I went from a 4 bedroom house into a 1 bedroom apartment with my office in the living room. It was very “cozy”. I really loved that apartment, I put a few things in storage at my dad’s place (mostly sentimental items – photos, etc.). But other than that, I really didn’t take much from the house (which my husband kept). It was great. A fresh start. I never considered moving into an apartment a step back, just a step in the process of life.

While I am saddened by this news, I am not the least bit surprised. In addition to the more obvious subtexts in recent posts, the first red flag to me was the separate finances. I never bought the argument that “it works for us”. Well, I mean I guess it did “work for you”, but, to me, separate finances is just an indicator of not being committed “til death do us part”.

Keeping finances separate does not bode disaster for a marrage. My grandparents were married 1940-2008 when my gandmother passed away.They had separate checking and savings accounts since the early 50′s. They always said it was easier to keep track of a checking balance that way, since they didnt have to wonder if one or the other had a check out that wasnt reconsiled.

Your grandparent’s reasoning sounds very logical and practical. But different from the mindset of JD and Kris keeping their finances completely separate and each paying their fair share of everything. Check reconciling isn’t an issue for most people these days, and I”m sure doesn’t apply in this case.

I doubt that check reconciliation is no longer a problem. Sure, you can check the balance online, etc., but the checks you see online are only those that have cleared. The online account will NOT tell you about the outstanding checks your spouse wrote.

I imagine if I got married we’d have one joint account for common expenses, but keep our own accounts. And while we’d try hard to keep goo record keeping on the joint account I’m sure there’d still be a few oopsies.

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Rosasays:

16 January 2012 at 4:52 pm

Thank you. That bit of magical thinking – follow the script and nothing bad can happen – is bad enough on a regular day, but jumping on a personal post like this to score “I do it better than you!” points is just rude.

Per my post #296, I respectfully disagree that separate finances necessarily mean lack of full commitment to a marriage. In my case, it means lack of compatibility in one area so we have a way around it. The rest works very well.

Sorry to hear the news JD, but best wishes in this hard time for both you & Kris. I believe you have the support you need to get yourselves through this!

Regarding separate finances, my partner & I maintain separate finances, other than those directly related to goals & expenses we are both working towards. For instance we have an expense a/c which we put in a set amount each month which covers food, gas, power & internet (& other misc items). We also have another a/c for work done on our house (joint purchase of house), and then other a/cs for other goals such as our annual beach holiday, other holidays or other joint purchases we wish to save for.

This works really well for us and everything leftover after paying the joint amounts are deemed our own to look after. We offer comments on what we’re currently saving for (retirement, new car, new bike, girls only holiday, boys only holiday etc) but don’t criticise the others goals. I am a saver so am very happy with this arrangement, whilst he is working his way towards being far more financially savvy than when we met. He will ask for thoughts but will also offer comments if I ask for them.

As other readers have said, people often have different hobbies, some more expensive than others so this also helps us as while I’m not a ‘shopper’ I still have a fairly chunky hobby that I like to spend money on. I would feel guilty if I spent ‘our’ money on that sort of thing.

This may not work for everyone but I truly believe that you need to work through these arrangements together to find the one that suits you best, whether that be joint or separate finances.

Nzchick – You don’t have separate finances. You have a combined finances mindset, but use various accounts to accomplish those goals. Just because you have separate slush funds for work lunches, hobbies, etc. doesn’t mean that you have “separate finances”. If you read back on J.D.’s posts about how he & Kris structured their finances, you’ll see that they actually had “separate finances” (to the point that he paid her to do his laundry because it was a chore he didn’t like to do).

At first, after seeing 45 other comments, I thought you’d already heard enough, but then, because I have been where you are right now (except for the “friendly” divorce part), I can relate.

It was scary for me to move out of a 2,000 square foot home into a much small apartment, but I actually found it very rewarding. It was difficult to choose the difference between “need” vs. “want,” but not as hard as you might think. Upon reflection, I found it rather refreshing.

It won’t take long for your to find your way, and come up with answers to the questions you know have.

A true lady and a true gentleman will not judge someone based on limited knowledge of a situation.

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tboofysays:

01 February 2012 at 5:19 pm

Good for you, J.D. I would feel the same as Kris on this. Of course, in my case, my ex’s new wife being 6 months pregnant (four month after our divorce was finalized) made it obvious which one of us wanted the divorce.

I’m very sorry to hear the news, but glad that your friendship is remaining strong, and you’re still taking care of each other. I hope you manage to remain good friends. Divorce was the best thing my parents ever did for their friendship.

So sorry to read this, J.D.. I’m saddened, but not shocked. As others have noted, there have been a few signs, such as the independent travel, and the decision to keep your finances separate.

I really admire your desire to keep things friendly, but I hope you take steps to protect yourself anyway. I’ve seen divorces that start out amicable, and they can turn adversarial in the blink of an eye, over the smallest things (who gets the cats? What if you don’t approve of the new guy she starts dating? What if a relative trash-talks her in front of you?).

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