Right, its a hypothetical that a girl walks in, gets busted by a cop with a fake id but the bar still gets in trouble.

Happens all the time. The state doesn't do a good job of policing their IDs and pushes liability down to establishments that have no means by which to protect themselves. Personally I think that it is gov't extortion of bars - you should never be liable for something you don't control and you should never be asked to discriminate based on your personal opinions. Imagine how unfair it is for someone who looks young - does your appearance, sex or race really count as a factor into whether you have the RIGHT to buy alcohol in the US?

That's why we make our fake IDs as best as possible to pass muster, e.g. mag strips with proper information, catching all the little gotchas in the numbers, making a plausible 22 versus 39, making sure the UV lights up where it's supposed to.

Oh, wait, I mean, that's what we would do. :-)

Actually, in Texas, as long as it's a Texas Department of Safety issued ID, we have an affirmative defense against fake IDs. As long as we believed it was issued by DPS, we can be protected from it. Hence why they scan it when you walk into a bar, they check it there and make sure it's legit. Note, this is only for SERVING alcohol, not for having sex with underage people. They could have two forms of government ID, my friends vouching for it, and her grandmother standing there and it would still be illegal.

In the US you can. US drinking age is 18, 49 states raise this to 21 but that is a state level law, not federal. Louisiana is still 18 hence the "21 to drink" billboards on the Texas border. In almost all 21 to drink states you can serve at 18, just not consume. It is a VERY rare bar that requires you to be 21 to go inside or even to sit at the bar. Just 21 to consume.

In the US you can. US drinking age is 18, 49 states raise this to 21 but that is a state level law, not federal. Louisiana is still 18 hence the "21 to drink" billboards on the Texas border. In almost all 21 to drink states you can serve at 18, just not consume. It is a VERY rare bar that requires you to be 21 to go inside or even to sit at the bar. Just 21 to consume.

That's what I've seen as well, but before I was 21 I was denied access once when I was trying to see a musician perform at a bar as well. I suppose it's "up to them" which as you said earlier, is an awful burden on the establishment.

In the US you can. US drinking age is 18, 49 states raise this to 21 but that is a state level law, not federal. Louisiana is still 18 hence the "21 to drink" billboards on the Texas border. In almost all 21 to drink states you can serve at 18, just not consume. It is a VERY rare bar that requires you to be 21 to go inside or even to sit at the bar. Just 21 to consume.

Until that person suggests that the decision was based on sex, religion, race, etc. You can refuse service, but you can't discriminate. Very hard to prove that you are doing one and not the other.

True. But in order to get resolution, the "21 year old girl" is going to have to file suit.

When you are, let's say, Hispanic and you are suing because a restaurant won't serve you because you're Hispanic, you have a much better chance than a girl who looks 16 suing a bar because she can't get a drink.

Right, its a hypothetical that a girl walks in, gets busted by a cop with a fake id but the bar still gets in trouble.

Happens all the time. The state doesn't do a good job of policing their IDs and pushes liability down to establishments that have no means by which to protect themselves. Personally I think that it is gov't extortion of bars - you should never be liable for something you don't control and you should never be asked to discriminate based on your personal opinions. Imagine how unfair it is for someone who looks young - does your appearance, sex or race really count as a factor into whether you have the RIGHT to buy alcohol in the US?

Excellent points! And still if I trip, fall, and break my leg in front of your house I can sue you......

Until that person suggests that the decision was based on sex, religion, race, etc. You can refuse service, but you can't discriminate. Very hard to prove that you are doing one and not the other.

True. But in order to get resolution, the "21 year old girl" is going to have to file suit.

When you are, let's say, Hispanic and you are suing because a restaurant won't serve you because you're Hispanic, you have a much better chance than a girl who looks 16 suing a bar because she can't get a drink.

In the US you can. US drinking age is 18, 49 states raise this to 21 but that is a state level law, not federal. Louisiana is still 18 hence the "21 to drink" billboards on the Texas border. In almost all 21 to drink states you can serve at 18, just not consume. It is a VERY rare bar that requires you to be 21 to go inside or even to sit at the bar. Just 21 to consume.

That's what I've seen as well, but before I was 21 I was denied access once when I was trying to see a musician perform at a bar as well. I suppose it's "up to them" which as you said earlier, is an awful burden on the establishment.

Yeah, they can totally be 21 and up only. They can be 40 and up if they choose. As long as it is age restricted only, it's not a problem.

Until that person suggests that the decision was based on sex, religion, race, etc. You can refuse service, but you can't discriminate. Very hard to prove that you are doing one and not the other.

True. But in order to get resolution, the "21 year old girl" is going to have to file suit.

When you are, let's say, Hispanic and you are suing because a restaurant won't serve you because you're Hispanic, you have a much better chance than a girl who looks 16 suing a bar because she can't get a drink.

Except that she can sue for being denied access based on being a girl because maybe that is part of what makes her look younger. Unless they can prove that sex or race don't play a part in their decision as to someone's age (and how do you do that) then you risk that card being played - and rightfully so. I believe that IDs should be required but that the ID system should be handled by the gov't, not the bar.

Yeah, most clubs around here have that but they have a "guys" night too from what I hear. I used to go on "ladies" night but I got tired of wasting money and I've met a few good girls that I'd rather take on a date.

Back to the fake id, I've seen a few get busted for underage drinking and for fake id. The under 21, they put their id in a binder til they leave and the police check them while they are in the club to verify they are real. Also, they get busted a few times by not knowing their address or something little on the id.