This is a discussion on Pokerstrategy says to play wider range in SB, why is this? within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; I'm using Equilab and playing around with ranges, and on PokerStrategies no limit ranges for FR and SH it shows that you play more hands

I'm using Equilab and playing around with ranges, and on PokerStrategies no limit ranges for FR and SH it shows that you play more hands and a wider range on the SB, than you do if you're UTG1 or even MP2. I always thought that the blinds were for premium hands only?

It shows the SB open raising range should be 18% according to their strategy, and MP1 is only 4.68% in a tight full ring strategy. I don't understand.

#2

14th January 2015, 6:25 PM

AlfieAA [8,990]

hi man

you can usually open up a wider range on the sb if the conditions are right...for instance if the button is loose and is exploiting a weak big blind, you can come over the top with a 3bet and get the button to fold if he folds to 3bets..or you can 5bet bluff if he 4bet bluffs for a re re steal lol...

but a simpler example would be if theres an unopened pot and you open raise in the sb and get lots of bb folds..particuarly if the player in the bb is tight....if the bb was loose and fights back then you would need to tighten your sb v bb range and go for value rather than getting folds with a wider range....make sense?

#3

14th January 2015, 6:40 PM

radman [96]

Poker at: carbon

Game: holdem

Was taught its all about position. I feel like raising from the sb is not being in position. Have taken some heat for raising from sb and cracking PP's.
I agree in certain situations sb range can open up. And should. But I don't see that happening 18% of the time. Would think almost 75% of that 18% would be bluffing. Confused also

Most of the time i like to call SB because i already gave the half and any two cards are wroth the other half if you are not small stack because there is always a chance you catch a really strong hand on the flop

I'm using Equilab and playing around with ranges, and on PokerStrategies no limit ranges for FR and SH it shows that you play more hands and a wider range on the SB, than you do if you're UTG1 or even MP2. I always thought that the blinds were for premium hands only?

It shows the SB open raising range should be 18% according to their strategy, and MP1 is only 4.68% in a tight full ring strategy. I don't understand.

My guess for that would be the fact that you're in the worst position at the table. Everyone else knows this and being that it's the worst position to raise out of would imply that you have a hand and that would lead to the people opening wide in position to fold because they think you have a great hand if you're willing to raise out of the worst position on the table. So yes, I would guess that most of the 18% would be 3bet bluffs or blind vs blind to a tight big blind player.

#6

14th January 2015, 11:46 PM

dealio96 [5,669]

Online Poker at: Ignition/WPN

Game: NLHE/Razz

The key term here is "open". If.you're the sb, and its folded around to you, you should be opening with a VERY wide range. Im usually opening ATC in this scenario. Hehhe

#7

14th January 2015, 11:56 PM

dealio96 [5,669]

Poker at: Ignition/WPN

Game: NLHE/Razz

Also, the reason your opening range is narrower in EP is bc you have more opponents to act behind you obv. If it's folded to you and the only player left behind you to act is the BB, what are the chances he actually has a premium hand? The chances are slim. That's why your sb opening range is wider than an ep opening range.

Thanks for the responses. I've done a bit of research since I started the thread and it seems like opening in the SB with a wide range is usually done if you're first in the pot and seems like most people here agree.

#9

7th February 2015, 4:53 AM

Poker Orifice [16,794]

Game: NLHE

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealio96

The key term here is "open". If.you're the sb, and its folded around to you, you should be opening with a VERY wide range. Im usually opening ATC in this scenario. Hehhe

Pretty sure OP is referring to fullring cash game. I'm not sure why we'd want to be opening a VERY wide range (ATC) in this scenario? Why do we want to put ourselves in spot where we're playing OOP vs. BB w ATC (seems super exploitable to me).

#10

7th February 2015, 5:56 AM

Sil3ntness [807]

Online Poker at: Carbon

Game: NLHE

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokyjones

Most of the time i like to call SB because i already gave the half and any two cards are wroth the other half if you are not small stack because there is always a chance you catch a really strong hand on the flop

I'm pretty sure that this actually a poker leak. Limping from the SB is bad for multiple reasons. ONE: You are out of position. TWO: You are basically saying "Hey I have a crappy hand and I will play loose passive from my SB". Any good poker player will abuse you for limping. Most likely they will raise from the BB and you will either fold or flat call again OOP. Flop comes... check fold!

I'd only limp from the SB if I had a playable hand and the BB is passive. Playing any two cards just because you offered 1/2 a BB is just asking for reverse implied odds. You'll be missing more than 1 BB by the time you hit the river against someone aggressive.

#11

7th February 2015, 8:30 PM

ilostmysoul [197]

Because on SB and BB you are getting better pot odds. Assuming people call before you, you sometimes get 9-to-1 or 10-to-1 odds. It defenitely makes it worth to defend with suited connectors, or sometimes even hands like 9To or AXo or (and this is my preference) J9s.
I actually don't know what PokerStrategy says abour your range at BB, but it should be around the same, maybe even bigger, for the same reason: it costs way less for you to call. If BB is $20 and someone raised to $40, everyone else is getting around 2-to-1 (20+10+40 - to - 40) for entering the pot, while you get 4-to-1. Doubles your advantage over them and thus your range. And in the BB there's still the chance everyone checks to you and you enter for free.

For me if I have a premium hand like 77- AA or 10-A suited I will typically play in BB or SB most of the time if people 4B or less preflop.

#13

7th February 2015, 8:54 PM

ilostmysoul [197]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil3ntness

I'm pretty sure that this actually a poker leak. Limping from the SB is bad for multiple reasons. ONE: You are out of position. TWO: You are basically saying "Hey I have a crappy hand and I will play loose passive from my SB". Any good poker player will abuse you for limping. Most likely they will raise from the BB and you will either fold or flat call again OOP. Flop comes... check fold!

I'd only limp from the SB if I had a playable hand and the BB is passive. Playing any two cards just because you offered 1/2 a BB is just asking for reverse implied odds. You'll be missing more than 1 BB by the time you hit the river against someone aggressive.

Like I said above, theoritically speaking, it's only good to call from SB if you have good pot odds to do so. In order to have good pot odds, it's not enough to have the BB: someone else behind you must have called too, or you are not in an advantage at all.
Therefore you aren't going to be abused by BB because they would also have to deal with the player (or players) behind you. If nobody calls, then you are right to call only when you have playable hands. Same applies to some hands like suited connectors or JKo in middle position: you only limp with them in case someone called before you, otherwise (if you are a tight player) you aren't getting enough pot odds and a fold would be the best option, unless you want to take risks.