Kokyo Henkel Interview

Kokyo Henkel trained for 19 years in residence at Tassajara Zen Mountain Center (most recently as Tanto, or Head of Practice), Green Gulch Farm Zen Center, No Abode Hermitage in Mill Valley, and Bukkokuji Monastery in Japan. He was ordained as a priest in 1994 by Tenshin Anderson Roshi, receiving Dharma Transmission from him in 2010 in the Soto Zen tradition. Kokyo Henkel came to Santa Cruz Zen Center in 2009, where he is currently Head Teacher.

Transcript

SZ: How did you first come into contact with Zen teachings?

KH: When I was going to college, I took a class on Zen (which is the one college class I failed, since I never wrote the final paper!) with a professor who was a long-term student of Joshu Sasaki Roshi. He also led a zazen group in the evenings for students who wanted to practice what they were studying. There was also a zazen group from the local Providence Zen Center which met each week on campus. As well as sitting with these two groups, when I had time between classes, I would find a hidden corner in an empty classroom and practice zazen.

SZ: I’d love to hear you tell us a bit about the teacher who transmitted Dharma to you, Tenshin Reb Anderson. Could you tell us a bit about him?

KH: My teacher, Tenshin Roshi, has been a shining example, over the years, of wholehearted engagement with the presently arising manifestation of life. As a scholar-yogi-priest, he has always encouraged his students to deeply investigate the teachings of our tradition from the Pali Canon, to the Mahayana Sutras, to the treatises of the Indian panditas such as Nagarjuna and Vasubandhu, to the Chinese ancestors, and Dogen Zenji. His devotion to continuously deepening his own understanding of Dharma, while offering many meditation retreats and sesshins, as well as training his priests in the traditional forms and ceremonies of Zen has been an ongoing inspiration to me and many others. He has always emphasized the importance of the teacher-student relationship, and frequent face-to-face meetings both in private and in public, as well as straightforward authentic expression of one’s true being, the practice that Suzuki Roshi called “being yourself.” He is one of the few teachers I have met who is not afraid to really challenge his students to go beyond themselves, and also challenge the status quo of institutions, etc.

SZ: How do you see your role as a Zen teacher? How did Tenshin Roshi help provide that example for you?

KH: As our Chinese ancestor Huangbo said, there really are no teachers of Zen. Zen cannot truly be taught by another. I see the role of a so-called “Zen teacher” as primarily conveying the heart of the Way by example, continuing forever the practice of zazen and the deep intention to live in accord with the Dharma, and secondarily offering verbal teachings to help inspire others to practice more deeply. Tenshin Roshi has always been an encouragement to me in the way he meets the circumstances of daily life and his students in many different kinds of situations. His admonition to his home-leaving priests in particular to give up all worldly ambitions, and to let “the myriad things come forth and confirm the self” as an approach to all activities, including teaching and leadership, continues to influence my style of being a so-called “teacher.” His ongoing devotion to the forms of the ancient Way, as well going beyond them, has also had a deep influence on my current style of practice and teaching.

SZ: You come from the San Francisco Zen CenterSuzuki-roshi lineage, which undoubtedly has made its impact felt in terms of Western approaches toward Zen practice, in this case Soto. I don’t know that my observation here reflects any conscious intention, but I have noticed that there is a bottleneck of ordained priests which more or less remain there. Meanwhile, throughout the country, we see individuals from all walks making a yearly pilgrimage to do a sesshin or extended retreat. In some sense, that is how Zen practice has always been. A pilgrimage. However, I wonder if you think we need to see more priests spreading the seeds more widely throughout the country or, by extension, the world, by starting new practice centers in isolated areas or supporting the startup of them?

KH: There are indeed many senior priests continuing to live at the three locations of San Francisco Zen Center (Tassajara, Green Gulch Farm, and the City Center). The daily operation of these large training centers needs many experienced people, but it is also beneficial for senior teachers to move out into new practice centers so the next generation can step up and take responsibility, and for the ongoing challenging practice of senior practitioners. This is happening to some extent, with about thirty small Zen centers or groups around the U.S. associated with SFZC called “Branching Streams” as well as groups in Canada, England, Ireland, and Italy. I think we will see more of this Dharma-spreading activity over the years as more and more small Zen groups around the world request full-time teachers to lead their groups. It would be good to see more of this movement happening now, which takes risk, courage and bodhicitta to let go of the financial security and emotional comforts of living in community with a large Dharma “family.”

SZ: How can reading be a healthy extension of one’s practice, in terms of Dharma texts or works? Is there anything one should be careful of when reading? For instance, I’ve always found that authors have a unique pulpit from which to express themselves. It can be challenging to truly analyze what is written when you go in with the concept, “Well, they are the expert.” How do we learn to read critically as practitioners?

KH: Though there are vastly different takes on this question in the world of Zen, I am of the school that without “right view,” and a clear conceptual understanding of what not-self and emptiness really mean, one can waste a lot of time in zazen going down various side-roads, and not discover the direction of the path of true liberation. Also, without a clear understanding of the more conventional aspects of right view, such as karma and cause-and-effect, one can get into lots of trouble and suffering in daily life. Though no written teaching is always fail-safe, I tend to rely on the view presented in the time-tested classic texts of the tradition, particularly the Indian sutras and commentaries out of which the unique expressions of Zen arose. As the Buddha admonished his disciples to check out what he taught in their own experience, these classic texts often give very detailed and thorough reasonings that help us check out their logical validity for ourselves. I am also quite influenced by the teachings and practices of the Tibetan Dzogchen tradition, which I understand as an almost identical type of non-dual meditation (or “non-meditation”) as that which is taught in Soto Zen. Though at the time of engagement in Dzogchen non-meditation one is not using the conceptual intellectual mind, most teachers agree that the conceptual understanding of emptiness as presented in the root texts is an essential prerequisite to authentic meditation and realization. When one has developed conviction in the view of emptiness through conceptual reasoning, one then “rests” non-discursively in that conviction.

SZ: What are we talking about when we say we ‘practice’ Zen? Is it a conscious effort we apply, similar to conditioning one’s self to view the world from a shifted perspective? Does it have much of anything to do with our views, even?

KH: Dogen Zenji equated “practice” with “verification” of awakening, so practice in this sense is anything we do while letting go of self-concern, verifying the freedom from suffering. This may be a conscious effort, or intentional practice to let go, at least for many years, but there is the possibility of the “perfection of effort” where there is no more conscious sense of the practitioner as separate from the effort or the result. Following from your previous question, practice might include times of intentional conceptual investigation of right view, and other times of effortless nonconceptual accord with right view. In both cases, the bodhisattva vow to study and manifest the Way for the benefit of others can keep the practice directed toward freedom from self-concern.

SZ: I recently watched an excellent talk given by Gil Fronsdal online which was about doing what is appropriate. This is sort of an extension of the previous question. Is it just something we must learn, through trial and error?

KH: Again, clarifying right view and checking to see if our idea of what is appropriate is in accord with the teachings of the Buddhas and Ancestors is essential. Of course we end up learning a lot through trial and error in the end, but the more we can rely on the authentic Dharma, the more we can avoid wasting a lot of time and falling into a lot of unnecessary suffering.

SZ: Rev. Henkel – thank you so much for taking the time to answer these questions for us. In closing, what book(s) would you recommend to someone interested in engaging a Zen practice?

KH: As I mentioned, I am most drawn to the classics of Zen as well as the Indian roots of the Zen tradition. Some of the many deeply transformative Dharma books for me include:

Dogen Zenji’s “Shobogenzo-Zuimonki” (translated by Shohaku Okumura, also by Thomas Cleary; this is a collection of more informal talks given to the monks, given to encourage their wholehearted practice)

About Sweeping Zen

Established in 2009 as a grassroots initiative, Sweeping Zen is a digital archive of information on Zen Buddhism. Featuring in-depth interviews, an extensive database of biographies, news, articles, podcasts, teacher blogs, events, directories and more, this site is dedicated to offering the public a range of views in the sphere of Zen Buddhist thought. We are also endeavoring to continue creating lineage charts for all Western Zen lines, doing our own small part in advancing historical documentation on this fabulous import of an ancient tradition. Come on in with a tea or coffee. You're always bound to find something new.

About Sweeping Zen

Established in 2009 as a grassroots initiative, Sweeping Zen is a digital archive of information on Zen Buddhism. Featuring in-depth interviews, an extensive database of biographies, news, articles, podcasts, teacher blogs, events, directories and more, this site is dedicated to offering the public a range of views in the sphere of Zen Buddhist thought. We are also endeavoring to continue creating lineage charts for all Western Zen lines, doing our own small part in advancing historical documentation on this fabulous import of an ancient tradition. Come on in with a tea or coffee. You're always bound to find something new.

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