Veteran Players are Bored; We Need New Challenges

Stratics Veteran

The options available to veteran players these days are very limited. Night after night our guild has to make grueling decisions such as do we do Despise-Despise-Despise-Harrower or Harrower-Harrower-Despise or Despise-Harrower-Despise-Harrower.

Factions is dead (for the moment at least), Peerless have been farmed to death, there is no reason to Treasure Hunt, Doom is pointless now after the changes and there are no reasons to go hunting monsters because they don't have anything we need. The only thing left is the same boring PvM to try and get a PvP fight going.

There has been such a content drought these past 2 years that it is really stretching the limits of patience. We are coming up on 3 years without an expansion. The post-AOS UO does not work very well without new and interesting stuff to do. From AOS to about early 2006 there was steady stream of content additions, especially with the Event Moderator events every now and then. Really fun stuff. Everyone knows what happened next and I don't want to turn this into a KR bash.

You can tell UO is a great game because so many people are still playing it after what we've been through these past couple years. If World of Warcraft was the same game that launched in 2004 they would probably have less subscribers than UO does today. What saves WOW is the constant stream of new and challenging content. Not just one-night events, but entire dungeons and server-wide progressive arcs which take weeks/months to finish. You can't just run in and kill the toughest stuff in one day of it being out, it takes a bit of time.

This is a desperate plea that some new PvM or PvP system be developed akin to Publish 16's champion spawns. Something that players will want to do and keep doing. Even if it is just an expansion on something that is already implemented. Something that could probably be done real quick and easy is tossing a reward on the Ilshenar/Bedlam/Tokuno champion spawns. I don't see why the trouble was spent creating these spawns and literally nothing was ever added to them. Another idea would be to create a spawn in Khaldun similar to the one in Labyrinth, a champion spawn without an altar. Khaldun would be perfect for such a thing with a lot of backstory that could be worked off of for coming up with a theme. There is just so much that could be added to make things interesting publish to publish until we get the next expansion.

Stratics Veteran

Because you do champion spawns to get Power Scrolls. The vermin champion spawn can be done in 10-12 minutes from start to champion dead. Despise is the only location where the vermin champion spawn has a 100% chance of occurring. Thus, if people want to do a champion spawn you go to Despise.

That isn't even the end of it. There is an absolutely unbelievable situation that was created last fall that completely messed up the Despise spawn. They fixed the bridge to the island but then created another bridge which was broken just like before. Now people constantly exploit the line of sight issues on the new bridge to their advantage and you sometimes deal with another crashing party from the old bridge. It is just so incredibly mind blowing why this is allowed to go on.

Why do you need to do pvm to get a pvp fight going? Can't you organise an event yourselves?
Check out the recent 'Caravan to Brit' events on Europa.

You don't have to wait for the Dev's to create something for you, you can create something yourself, if you've the imagination.

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We have been organizing events for years now. Case and point: the Epic Factions event that was being planned. But that sort of fell apart due to different factors, including many people being difficult to work with. It is unrealistic to expect that PVP is going to be 100% controlled by players. There are even people who say that because it isn't controlled they don't have to agree to any guidelines when doing PVP related events.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

I get bored sometimes too but...
One of the things that keeps it fun is I'm in a guild that fortunately has many old vets but also has several new and returning players. It helps to go with the newer players and just help them out when they need it. They get gains, collect all the gold and they feel good and you have fun

I agree that I'd love to see some NEW stuff that would make it more fun for us old vets!

Just wanted to add the above to maybe give ideas to some others to have fun doing things like above (and different things) that might help make the game more enjoyable.

Stratics VeteranAlumniStratics Legend

I guess I'm thick, I just don't understand. You say you want a challenge, but you don't do any champ spawn that might offer one, just the easiest one.

If the faction event is an example of your event organising I'd say your plans were too ambitious. The caravan Paidric does is much less complex and fun for most. The idea is to simply transport several engraved, uninsured swords from one town to another. The caravan protects them, the other group tries to capture them. There's a running fight along the road and a major battle at bottle necks. Last one went between Brit and Trinsic giving a bottleneck at the bridge.

Whatever you say about JC's post, he is certainly correct that there needs to be a new expansion and three years is just way too long to wait and a prime example of the lack of competence from the developers over recent times.

And I cannot believe the lack of imagination shown in organizing events. The current one is a good example with the same old spawn appearing each time. Okay, so the towns invaded have expanded, but they should also have been gradually ramping the intensity and adding extra monsters into the mix as well as a few more items randomly available on the corpses of the leaders to give an incentive to keep fighting them. On top of that, there should be some kind of penalty for the shard if the spawn is not dealt with. And it is quite incomprehensible to me that they need a focus group for this. Have none of these guys ever been GMs in the old pen-and-paper RPGs?

At the very least there should be an event manager that organizes something on each shard in turn so that there is some impromptu event every couple of weeks per shard.

UO lacks soul these days. It is run by a large company in a corporate fashion and it lacks an overall leader with a singular vision for the game.

Whilst i do agree with you JC, i would just like to mention that factions are far from dead!

On Europa at least, we are seeing more and more people join everyday, and we've had some absoloutely amazing base fights in the last couple of weeks.

Honestly, i compel all who are completely sick and tired of typical despise/yew gate pvp to have a go, it really is a good laugh! If your shard isnt active, maybe be the first to put a guild in.. hopefully soon people will flock

I felt the same and that is why i moved to SP.
The only flaw is that you will lose alot of items you gaind all the yers.
I dont mind starting skills all ower and only be alowed to have 1 char. it is the habit of just have alot of nice items you can deco and use.

We need something long, dinamic.. SOmething that involves pvp + pvm.. something that keep yuo playing for months: a special patch, a mission, a levelled dungon.. A DIFFICULT OBIECTIVE! No trammel-only 5-minutes quest ^^

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

I guess I'm thick, I just don't understand. You say you want a challenge, but you don't do any champ spawn that might offer one, just the easiest one.

If the faction event is an example of your event organising I'd say your plans were too ambitious. The caravan Paidric does is much less complex and fun for most. The idea is to simply transport several engraved, uninsured swords from one town to another. The caravan protects them, the other group tries to capture them. There's a running fight along the road and a major battle at bottle necks. Last one went between Brit and Trinsic giving a bottleneck at the bridge.

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You're not thick Petra Fyde, far from it.

It's just on Atlantic if you wanta fight, or challenge, you do despise. Popping despise during primetime hours will result in a raid 99.999% of the time on ATL. The PvM part of the champ isn't challenging at all for large guilds that use uoam, vent, and most importantly - teamwork. Atlantic has a number of guilds that fit that bill. Some guilds are more efficent at the ladder then others...

The challenge is what happens during the course of the champ, the pvp. If we wanted just scrolls, or wanted to kill a champ in peace, then we would do an out-of-the-way champ like hoppers. We have enough people in our guild that we can knock-out the pvm aspect of the champ with relative ease, no matter what the champ. Example, I think we timed our guild starting and finishing despise in under 8-9 minutes, and that was a few weeks ago.

I think what JC is talking about is that we've done these champs soooo many times over the (what? six years they've been around) and fought the same people sooo many times, that we vets feel a bit like a dog chasing it's own tail - it was fun at first, but time has turned the "fun" aspect into... well, work. Actuallly, I think its waaay beyond work, it's flat-out boredom. It would be nice to have something new to fight over, without having to play another game to get it (like what one pvp guild just did last week - they left UO for AOC, Traitors!)

It doesn't help matters much that nothing new has been added to the game in years, especially for the pvpers. Ya, I know there have been break-threws in speed-hack techology, "smart" scripts, client-side hacks (like the ever popular stump-hacks, and field hacks complete with uninstallers to avoid them "offical" uo patches) and uoa "clones" that do it better then uoa, but that isn't what our guild is about - At lest the large majority of our guild isn't about it. Besides, all of them things have been made by the UO community, and NOT EA/Mythic.

I don't think it's to much to ask for something new to fight over for the loyal pvper's that still log into UO these days, or to have it coded by the people that actually run the game that we love.

There need to be things were you need an alliance (large group of players) to achieve.
I am not talking about stupid raids in a stupid game called wow.

Taking Eve for an example - what can a big group of players do?:

Claim territory and keep it. A huge logistical an challenging effort.

Thats something I miss in UO - In UO one should be able to:
Build player towns , claim territory , build fleets of ships for seabattles , Have an allaince stronghold that must be built and defended.

Sadly in UO many things are ruined because of scripters.For big things one should need insane amounts of ressources.
In Eve there are macrominers too but they dont ruin the economy as such(in fact they keep certain ressource-costs from sykrocketing sometimes (Still dont like them and blow any I see into stardust if I find one in low-sec...)

There should be many more longterm stuff for people to do.
Obe of the best examples ..was.. powder of translocation.
It was a quest which was NOT a lame quest as such and it kept people busy and the economy alive... AND it was impossible to script - Perfect

The devs come up with quite good ideas sometimes but these things should be there on a permanent basis and not just for events.
I would:

Have the tok-champ (and only the champ) drop tok minis - Permanent
Have a city under siege (like britain was) - Permanent
Have all these turnins - Permanent
More GOOD quests (heartwood click-till-death are NOT quests!) - Permanent
etc etc etc

I would NOT:
Have artis on a NOT-Permanent basis OR a Permanent-basis (very rare ones) that are unbalancing !

Anything new with mods on them THINK before implementing them so that they dont unbalance everything making 100 items obsolete !!
Greetings Belmarduk

I agree on the condition that whatever is added is in no way, shape or form a new pet/follower/hireling/mount or pet/follower/hireling/mount related accessory/statue/trophy.

There has been 15 unique pets added to this game since I started (not including things like glacial worms and valentines bunnys, though even the bunnys made mils for tamers on Atlantic and probably should be counted because of it), the closest any other class comes to that is 4 for mules (bods/runics/glassblowing/stone crafting). They keep talking about balance yet things are so clearly one sided.

I guess I'm thick, I just don't understand. You say you want a challenge, but you don't do any champ spawn that might offer one, just the easiest one.

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The reason you don't get it is the implicit of such a demand. You know, devs have to understand what players want, not what they ask. This is a typical example. Some players are asking for challenge. But if they really wanted a challenge, they could try to do a peerless in GM gear, or do a champ spawn with 0 resists armor, beat a big monster with a tiny pet, etc. But that's not what they want. It wouldn't be fun because it would be only bragging rights (if anyone cares). Even if they don't say it they want a new challenge AND an appropriate reward. They may feel guilty and don't ask for it but they want the reward, and they are right. There needs to be an appropriate reward saying "congratulation you did it!" in order to encourage players doing it.

"- I killed a lich with a squirrel!
- waw nice!
- ... hmmm what now... I killed a second lich with a squirrel!
- this is getting old
- pfff ok I don't kill lich with my squirrel anymore, it's too boring"

Basically, the challenges coming from your own imagination are just not the same than a challenge from someone else, especially from devs.

The options available to veteran players these days are very limited. Night after night our guild has to make grueling decisions such as do we do Despise-Despise-Despise-Harrower or Harrower-Harrower-Despise or Despise-Harrower-Despise-Harrower.

Factions is dead (for the moment at least), Peerless have been farmed to death, there is no reason to Treasure Hunt, Doom is pointless now after the changes and there are no reasons to go hunting monsters because they don't have anything we need. The only thing left is the same boring PvM to try and get a PvP fight going.

There has been such a content drought these past 2 years that it is really stretching the limits of patience. We are coming up on 3 years without an expansion. The post-AOS UO does not work very well without new and interesting stuff to do. From AOS to about early 2006 there was steady stream of content additions, especially with the Event Moderator events every now and then. Really fun stuff. Everyone knows what happened next and I don't want to turn this into a KR bash.

You can tell UO is a great game because so many people are still playing it after what we've been through these past couple years. If World of Warcraft was the same game that launched in 2004 they would probably have less subscribers than UO does today. What saves WOW is the constant stream of new and challenging content. Not just one-night events, but entire dungeons and server-wide progressive arcs which take weeks/months to finish. You can't just run in and kill the toughest stuff in one day of it being out, it takes a bit of time.

This is a desperate plea that some new PvM or PvP system be developed akin to Publish 16's champion spawns. Something that players will want to do and keep doing. Even if it is just an expansion on something that is already implemented. Something that could probably be done real quick and easy is tossing a reward on the Ilshenar/Bedlam/Tokuno champion spawns. I don't see why the trouble was spent creating these spawns and literally nothing was ever added to them. Another idea would be to create a spawn in Khaldun similar to the one in Labyrinth, a champion spawn without an altar. Khaldun would be perfect for such a thing with a lot of backstory that could be worked off of for coming up with a theme. There is just so much that could be added to make things interesting publish to publish until we get the next expansion.

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Do you honestly have to kill until nothing is left?

Try a different character if your bored.

Make a thief. Youll have some fun.

Already got a thief? Make a hybrid.

Set up a shop.

Roleplay a Tavern.

Join factions instead of saying its dead... bring it to life *smacks head*

Hum.... I feel for you all. The only thing that gets me bored is a slow plotline....

I guess to me UO is what you make it. If your bored hunting perhaps you should equip some GM armor and try it that way????

I think of it like this..... If I wanted to make it easy I could. If I wanted to make it a challenge I certainly could..... I guess if you feel you can't play without wearing the best of the best of the best then why bother?

In my eyes I am Malag-aste Hla-ate, Turcople of Diplomacy of the Royal Knights of Redemption. I am a fallen drow and I MUST follow the virtues or my life will end. I protect the lands of Britainia uphold the laws of the High Council and the High Courts. I fight legions of invaders, I train Squires and I serve my Templar to the best of my ability. I don't have the best of the best armour.... My bow is good but not the best I've ever seen, but it serves me well.

Sometimes I am Rik Gemtracker, Gem excavator and dwarf..... always willing to help others dig for treasure if they pay me in gems.

Occasionally I am Willa of the Yew-wood, Former Mayor to the City of Yew finally retired after over 60 years of service. Advocate of peace. I serve on the High Council when called upon as Adjutunt Chancellor. I am a Yew-wood elf.

And sometimes I am Cainon I am a tamer of beasts. Only brother to Willa of the Yew-wood, I spend most of my time hunting with my animals or helping others in need.

Or I am Ra'Vendall, I run the Bazaar in Newcastle. When the mood strikes me we open our doors making craftable goods for the community. You will not find any better craftsman than those that work at the Bazaar. (The Bazaar is run so there are NO npc vendors, actual crafters work and supply needs to folk from the Bazaar without the use of Vendors, so the work is done personally and to me that is much more than buying it off some vendor... other services include on-site deco assistant. Want to deco but don't want to have to stop and search all about for the things you need on vendors but don't have a crafter of your own?? Pay Ra'Vendall well and he'll come to your home and construct you what you need right there on the spot. Let him do the running for you.)

When I'm not doing any of those things (not too bloody often, I'm either in here reading the boards or I'm working skills on any number of characters. My eventual goal would be to GM every skill there is... a noble cause but I've yet to finish I have a ways to go yet.)

So like I said..... I'm sorry for you all as you must lack vision... there is no way that you can possibly have "done it all" in-game.... as my mind is always thinking of new things I haven't done. Perhaps your problem is not in the game but in the goals you set for yourself? Perhaps you need to put on a new outlook to the game? Try something fresh? Expand your mind and your goals and perhaps you will see the game in a whole new life? I don't look for EA games/UO to provide me with constant new lands or new adventure.... I take what EA/UO gave me as a foundation and I build upon it a dream and an adventure.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

So like I said..... I'm sorry for you all as you must lack vision... there is no way that you can possibly have "done it all" in-game.... as my mind is always thinking of new things I haven't done.

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Not everyone has the same interests. Basically you ideas are "role play" (rping some things that don't even exist in Brittania, and are painfully standard as well, so don't get so uppity about feeling sorry for the lack of vision in others) and many people are not interested in rping, and thats fine.

UO is a great platform for rping, which is part of its charm, but you have to keep updating the game, or a lot of people will loose interest, like we see today. Some people like to have goal set for them to reach, and some people like to take place in stories that no one knows the outcome of, as well as ones that use tools not in the hands of players.

Theres nothing wrong in looking for updates, and being disappointed when they are slow in coming.

Stratics Veteran

How is playing a thief any fun these days unless you are on Siege Perilous? It isn't. Thieves suffered a stroke 8 years ago with Trammel and dropped dead 5 years ago when Age of Shadows came out. The only things worth stealing spawn at random intervals on the ground and are scripted up like no one's business. Perhaps, if you are lucky, you can steal some Power/Stat scrolls. But that is mostly based on luck and is incredibly difficult when you can't walk within 3 tiles of anyone without getting revealed.

Already got a thief? Make a hybrid.

Set up a shop.

Roleplay a Tavern.

Join factions instead of saying its dead... bring it to life *smacks head*

I agree there needs to be some new content. I espiecally like the idea of a reward type system for non-fel champ spawns. Dosent have to be like in fel with power scrolls and stat scrolls but something atleast unique to the champ spawns that make them worth going to and doing.

Not everyone has the same interests. Basically you ideas are "role play" (rping some things that don't even exist in Brittania, and are painfully standard as well, so don't get so uppity about feeling sorry for the lack of vision in others) and many people are not interested in rping, and thats fine.

UO is a great platform for rping, which is part of its charm, but you have to keep updating the game, or a lot of people will loose interest, like we see today. Some people like to have goal set for them to reach, and some people like to take place in stories that no one knows the outcome of, as well as ones that use tools not in the hands of players.

Theres nothing wrong in looking for updates, and being disappointed when they are slow in coming.

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I am not uppity about RP..... There are hundreds of playstyles in UO... Sure folk like fresh input.... but to sit there and say nothing new????? Come on!..... NO GAME on the market puts out new content every week..... The publishes in UO of late have added all sorts of things from the current story arc to the turn ins... I don't understand all the whinning about wanting more.... some folk are NEVER satisfied no matter what..... If your losing intrest then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your playstyle..... I was just making a suggestion about alternatives ..... Some folk have found new playstyles by taking up taming..... Or T-Hunting...... Or even Crafting..... which is great for them.... But sounds to me like with all the things out there some folk wouldn't be satisfied no matter what the Dev team did.....

Also..... As for the loss of folk think of it this way..... Sure the player base is dwindling a bit.... but you have to realize there are dozens of dungeons, the current event arc, dozens of towns, and banks, On many different facets, shards and areas..... so the ones who are about are VERY Widely spread... This can be a good thing.... and it can be a bad thing.... Now you put that up against the dozens and dozens of other Online games.... from WoW to LoTRO..... and all and it's no wonder there are so few folk.... add that with School, Graduations, College, Work and the rest of things that go on IRL like childbirth, marriage, divorce and death..... war...... Yeah... When Ulitma first came out in the early years there really wasn't much competition..... the old console games.... a very few online games and things so of course there were more it would seem but there was then only ONE land...... Wasn't Trammel or Fel...

But I stand behind saying the game is what YOU make it..... I didn't suggest only RP..... I even suggested taking off the UBER suit and trying hunting.... Put on a GM made weapon and give dragons a go. Demons anyone??? Sometimes the "Fun" and challenge is not in being the best of the best and having the best of everything....but if that's all folk want out of the game then I suppose that's for them..... My ingame goals are constantly changing and adapting. So yeah.... I'm sad for those who find that nothing can be fun in UO anymore.... probably because I find so much fun in UO..... I don't like to see anyone leave... I for one plan to be here until the sun sets on Sossaria for the last time..... I'm always finding new things to do ingame... and I know I'm not alone.

If you take that for uppity... that is truely sad. I take that as having a good healthy happy outlook.... But I have low tolerance for folk who do nothing but complain when there are things happening all around... There is NEW content.... Has been quite a bit of new content...... The Rift, the Vanguard... and if your bored with that already then I doubt even in an entire new expansion pack you would find any satisfaction......

Stratics Veteran

If you take that for uppity... that is truely sad. I take that as having a good healthy happy outlook.... But I have low tolerance for folk who do nothing but complain when there are things happening all around... There is NEW content.... Has been quite a bit of new content...... The Rift, the Vanguard... and if your bored with that already then I doubt even in an entire new expansion pack you would find any satisfaction......

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These events are good but they don't replace solid, permanent game additions. This rift stuff has been spawning for 2 months now and the same Vanguards for 2 weeks. Once you have your Cloak of Corruption and Dread Warhorse, what is left to do? Killing the monsters is not going to have an impact and there are no good rewards at the moment for doing so. If they did something like the top 10 on each shard who kill Vanguards get something, then perhaps it would be more interesting to go at them. But at the moment there is nothing and in 2 weeks it will move on to something else.

You can do everything in the current events within one night, what are we supposed to do for the rest of the 2 weeks we have to wait to move on?

How about talking your veteran guild into making the move to Siege? Since they seem to have done everything on Atlantic, try some time as shard newbies? Some zerg guilds have tried, none have been successful in taking over the shard...la

Stratics Veteran

JC, I disagree about moving things along at a faster pace ~ coming back from vacation to find you've missed an entire event is disheartening, and I like this speed just fine

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I'm not complaining about the event speed, it is what it is. But some people are saying UO is getting lots of new stuff but it is events. What did we get these last few weeks? A turn-in which was completed in one hour and Vanguards which give a couple items and a tamable. That is one shot stuff. It isn't like a Peerless or a Champion spawn which you can do again and again over a long period of time. That is what is needed. UO hasn't had any additions since August 2005 (Mondain's Legacy). Since UO:R expansions have come out roughly once per year. We are now coming up on the 3rd year since the last expansion!

TheScoundrelRico said:

How about talking your veteran guild into making the move to Siege?

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Lets put aside that Siege sucks for a moment. What are we going to transfer for? Champion spawns? Peerless? We already do that. There is no point in going to a lower population shard and spending a lot of time training a character to do what we already can on our home shard. If we want a fight we can do Despise. But doing Despise is boring after you've done it thousands of times. Doing Despise on Siege is not going to suddenly make it fun.

The options available to veteran players these days are very limited. Night after night our guild has to make grueling decisions such as do we do Despise-Despise-Despise-Harrower or Harrower-Harrower-Despise or Despise-Harrower-Despise-Harrower.

Factions is dead (for the moment at least), Peerless have been farmed to death, there is no reason to Treasure Hunt, Doom is pointless now after the changes and there are no reasons to go hunting monsters because they don't have anything we need. The only thing left is the same boring PvM to try and get a PvP fight going.

There has been such a content drought these past 2 years that it is really stretching the limits of patience. We are coming up on 3 years without an expansion. The post-AOS UO does not work very well without new and interesting stuff to do. From AOS to about early 2006 there was steady stream of content additions, especially with the Event Moderator events every now and then. Really fun stuff. Everyone knows what happened next and I don't want to turn this into a KR bash.

You can tell UO is a great game because so many people are still playing it after what we've been through these past couple years. If World of Warcraft was the same game that launched in 2004 they would probably have less subscribers than UO does today. What saves WOW is the constant stream of new and challenging content. Not just one-night events, but entire dungeons and server-wide progressive arcs which take weeks/months to finish. You can't just run in and kill the toughest stuff in one day of it being out, it takes a bit of time.

This is a desperate plea that some new PvM or PvP system be developed akin to Publish 16's champion spawns. Something that players will want to do and keep doing. Even if it is just an expansion on something that is already implemented. Something that could probably be done real quick and easy is tossing a reward on the Ilshenar/Bedlam/Tokuno champion spawns. I don't see why the trouble was spent creating these spawns and literally nothing was ever added to them. Another idea would be to create a spawn in Khaldun similar to the one in Labyrinth, a champion spawn without an altar. Khaldun would be perfect for such a thing with a lot of backstory that could be worked off of for coming up with a theme. There is just so much that could be added to make things interesting publish to publish until we get the next expansion.

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Agreed JC.

Don't look for sympathy here though.

Most players that are left are blind loyalists and brainwashed sheeple.

As for me; I find that I am very bored with this game and don't see a future with no expansion coming.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

I am not uppity about RP..... There are hundreds of playstyles in UO... Sure folk like fresh input.... but to sit there and say nothing new????? Come on!..... NO GAME on the market puts out new content every week..... The publishes in UO of late have added all sorts of things from the current story arc to the turn ins... I don't understand all the whinning about wanting more.... some folk are NEVER satisfied no matter what..... If your losing intrest then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your playstyle..... I was just making a suggestion about alternatives ..... Some folk have found new playstyles by taking up taming..... Or T-Hunting...... Or even Crafting..... which is great for them.... But sounds to me like with all the things out there some folk wouldn't be satisfied no matter what the Dev team did.....

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Wasn't calling you uppity about rp, but rather the tone of your post. Anyway...
Theres a difference between no new content every week an no major update in over two years. NO game does that beside UO. A turn in of old crap we had sitting around for over a year is no major content. Many people HAVE tried pretty much everything whether you want to believe that or not. When you play for 10+ years many of those years for hours a day, you can do pretty much everything there is to do, or at least everything you have interest in doing.
And suggesting that its just a bunch of whining, I agree that there is a lot of whining for no reason, but I also think that adding no major content to a game for over two years... thats an honest cause for complaint. And a reason to find a new game for a lot of people.

But I stand behind saying the game is what YOU make it..... I didn't suggest only RP..... I even suggested taking off the UBER suit and trying hunting.... Put on a GM made weapon and give dragons a go. Demons anyone??? Sometimes the "Fun" and challenge is not in being the best of the best and having the best of everything....but if that's all folk want out of the game then I suppose that's for them..... My ingame goals are constantly changing and adapting. So yeah.... I'm sad for those who find that nothing can be fun in UO anymore.... probably because I find so much fun in UO..... I don't like to see anyone leave... I for one plan to be here until the sun sets on Sossaria for the last time..... I'm always finding new things to do ingame... and I know I'm not alone.

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I agree to a point. But you know what putting on gm armor does nothing for game play. Thats all we use on siege, and all it does it make it take longer. Its no big thing. Besides when the game gets to the point where you have to impose artificial handicaps on yourself out of boredom, then thats a bad sign in my book.
And its not like the only people who are bored are the ones who want to be the best of the best or whatever, I'm bored with it, and I'm not the best at anything and I've never had more than 2mill in my life and usually more like 200k. But you know, I don't know if you have been playing as long as me, cause I've really done pretty much everything I care to do, and I get bored and don't log on for long stretches, and I would for one, love a new expansion to give us some new stuff to enjoy. As it is now, I only play during events, or until the events grow stale.

If you take that for uppity... that is truely sad. I take that as having a good healthy happy outlook.... But I have low tolerance for folk who do nothing but complain when there are things happening all around... There is NEW content.... Has been quite a bit of new content...... The Rift, the Vanguard... and if your bored with that already then I doubt even in an entire new expansion pack you would find any satisfaction......

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I took you for uppity because of the statement "I'm sorry for you all as you must lack vision... " it was an uppity comment to make. Some people don't enjoy the things that you do, and thats ok, its not an issue of lack of vision, but rather different preferences.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

This game really needs some drive. The current event is so lackluster I can hardly make myself do it anymore. I'm not even really looking forward to the turn in that much this time. I want something to do that is worth my time and coming up with crap to do just because I've done everything else is no reason for me to pay a monthly fee.

Lets put aside that Siege sucks for a moment. What are we going to transfer for? Champion spawns? Peerless? We already do that. There is no point in going to a lower population shard and spending a lot of time training a character to do what we already can on our home shard. If we want a fight we can do Despise. But doing Despise is boring after you've done it thousands of times. Doing Despise on Siege is not going to suddenly make it fun.

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Do you remember how difficult the game was before you had scrolled out characters? If you were to come to Siege, it would not be anytime soon that you would be able to farm Despise. You would even in large numbers need to take some time to get skills trained up. In the mean time, you would almost be forced to go back to things like guild hunts or come up with new tactics for group fighting as you wouldn't be able to throw a group of 10+ 120 x 6 players at another guild.

*shrugs*

For all I care, quit. I just threw out an idea since you and your zerg seem so bored...la

The options available to veteran players these days are very limited. Night after night our guild has to make grueling decisions such as do we do Despise-Despise-Despise-Harrower or Harrower-Harrower-Despise or Despise-Harrower-Despise-Harrower.

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You guys realise that if you didn't raid every new guild that starts doing champion spawns right away you might get some that are built up enough to actually start fighting with. Do you do champion spawns for PvP or PvE? If you argue it is for PvP then you should allow guilds to get a little built up before raiding them.

Factions is dead (for the moment at least), Peerless have been farmed to death, there is no reason to Treasure Hunt, Doom is pointless now after the changes and there are no reasons to go hunting monsters because they don't have anything we need. The only thing left is the same boring PvM to try and get a PvP fight going.

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You could always ally with a good PvM guild and be the spawn protectors instead of just running the spawns yourself if PvM bores you. I know that takes thinking outside of the box and co-operation with other people though. I have to say even with chaining back to back peerless I have never been bored of it, and when I start to get bored of Mel I go to Travesty and if that is boring I do Dreadhorn. Seeing I do them all with 2 really close in game friends they are actually fun.

There has been such a content drought these past 2 years that it is really stretching the limits of patience. We are coming up on 3 years without an expansion. The post-AOS UO does not work very well without new and interesting stuff to do. From AOS to about early 2006 there was steady stream of content additions, especially with the Event Moderator events every now and then. Really fun stuff. Everyone knows what happened next and I don't want to turn this into a KR bash.

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Yes because the new events are boring and have no purpose. Hell, they even breed more life back into Felucca. More people have gone to Felucca for the invasion then have been in Felucca in the years since AoS came out.

You can tell UO is a great game because so many people are still playing it after what we've been through these past couple years. If World of Warcraft was the same game that launched in 2004 they would probably have less subscribers than UO does today. What saves WOW is the constant stream of new and challenging content. Not just one-night events, but entire dungeons and server-wide progressive arcs which take weeks/months to finish. You can't just run in and kill the toughest stuff in one day of it being out, it takes a bit of time.

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Please say you are joking. I mean seriously, once you learn that in WoW its all about doing the same old crap over and over for a chance to hit lucky on the RNG you will realise how shallow that game really is. The PvP content has NO sense of balance between classes and the PvM content is all the same with different looking pixels making up the monsters. WoW has lost more players than UO has and it really has gone down hill since 2004 not up hill. More people hated the last expansion then enjoyed it.

This is a desperate plea that some new PvM or PvP system be developed akin to Publish 16's champion spawns. Something that players will want to do and keep doing. Even if it is just an expansion on something that is already implemented. Something that could probably be done real quick and easy is tossing a reward on the Ilshenar/Bedlam/Tokuno champion spawns.

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Wow something I would love to see implimented...does this mean I sort of agree with you on something? I guess it does.

Here is the beauty of UO as compared to WoW. In UO you really do make your own end game. Instead of chasing the same pixels week after week with 9-24 other people hoping to get lucky with the RNG like in WoW you can actually do a great deal of different end game events. Instead of just doing Black Temple repeatedly you can actually get decent items from a variety of end game dungeons. WoW has zero variety end game.

I don't see why the trouble was spent creating these spawns and literally nothing was ever added to them. Another idea would be to create a spawn in Khaldun similar to the one in Labyrinth, a champion spawn without an altar. Khaldun would be perfect for such a thing with a lot of backstory that could be worked off of for coming up with a theme. There is just so much that could be added to make things interesting publish to publish until we get the next expansion.

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So you are complaining because you have to PvM to PvP but you are promoting another system that is Felucca based. One of the biggest issues in this game is that the game needs a decent PvP system for PvP lovers that would actually breed fun back into PvP players and champion spawns which are PvM should be PvM instead of a PvP/PvM hybrid.

Because you do champion spawns to get Power Scrolls. The vermin champion spawn can be done in 10-12 minutes from start to champion dead. Despise is the only location where the vermin champion spawn has a 100% chance of occurring. Thus, if people want to do a champion spawn you go to Despise.

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Wow...here I was thinking you did champion spawns to have fun and power scrolls were just a perk. Then again I'm not the one whining because this game has no fun activities in it.

That isn't even the end of it. There is an absolutely unbelievable situation that was created last fall that completely messed up the Despise spawn. They fixed the bridge to the island but then created another bridge which was broken just like before. Now people constantly exploit the line of sight issues on the new bridge to their advantage and you sometimes deal with another crashing party from the old bridge. It is just so incredibly mind blowing why this is allowed to go on.

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I totally and utterly agree. Here is my suggestion for a permanant fix to that spawn. Completely remove it from the game. Remove all dungeon spawns from the game. Make all spawns be in T2A and only spawn +20 power scrolls (3 instead of 6) with another 3 from knight of justice. Place all +10 and +15 powerscrolls in Trammel based spawns and completely remove +5 powerscrolls from the game.

We have been organizing events for years now. Case and point: the Epic Factions event that was being planned. But that sort of fell apart due to different factors, including many people being difficult to work with. It is unrealistic to expect that PVP is going to be 100% controlled by players. There are even people who say that because it isn't controlled they don't have to agree to any guidelines when doing PVP related events.

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Believe it or not compromise is just a part of life and it is a difficult part of life. Learn to compromise with people that totally and utterly disagree with you. I know its hard. The beauty is that in UO you can actually compromise with people instead of one hunt leader bossing 24 other people around as you go to Black Temple for the 80th time...or wait the new thing is Sun Well or whatever and that only came out 1.5 years after the expansion did.

And I cannot believe the lack of imagination shown in organizing events. The current one is a good example with the same old spawn appearing each time. Okay, so the towns invaded have expanded, but they should also have been gradually ramping the intensity and adding extra monsters into the mix as well as a few more items randomly available on the corpses of the leaders to give an incentive to keep fighting them. On top of that, there should be some kind of penalty for the shard if the spawn is not dealt with. And it is quite incomprehensible to me that they need a focus group for this. Have none of these guys ever been GMs in the old pen-and-paper RPGs?

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They are using a focus group to get player feed back on what they want to introduce into the game. How dare they. They should follow the lead of the biggest MMORPG in the industry and just cram crappy content down player's throats with absolutely no thought to design other than it being rushed and unwanted. Maybe they don't want to create WoW though.

At the very least there should be an event manager that organizes something on each shard in turn so that there is some impromptu event every couple of weeks per shard.

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The beauty of UO is that instead of chasing the same pixels over and over and over...you can actually plan and oraganize and promote events without ever having to get the developers involved...auctions and other player run events are a huge part of UO.

UO lacks soul these days. It is run by a large company in a corporate fashion and it lacks an overall leader with a singular vision for the game.

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I think UO is in a better place now then it has been in for years. It seems like the new developers actually love Ultima and want to listen to the players. They have gone out of their way to accomodate players, and they get bashed constantly for doing so. If you don't like the direction of the game then go play something else, but if you aren't having fun in UO the only one to blame is yourself.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

you want a challenge you say? How about try and get rid of the anything goes to win reputation you and youre guild and most people you know are known for? Maybe the game would be harder if you didnt take the path of least resistance at every opurtunity?

I'm not complaining about the event speed, it is what it is. But some people are saying UO is getting lots of new stuff but it is events. What did we get these last few weeks? A turn-in which was completed in one hour and Vanguards which give a couple items and a tamable. That is one shot stuff. It isn't like a Peerless or a Champion spawn which you can do again and again over a long period of time. That is what is needed. UO hasn't had any additions since August 2005 (Mondain's Legacy). Since UO:R expansions have come out roughly once per year. We are now coming up on the 3rd year since the last expansion!

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You DO NOT need a new expansion to add new content. All this event stuff seems to be an over reaching arc. Could you please allow that arc to finish off before you say nothing permanant is being added? They used a similar arc to add the solens, swamp dragons, dragon armor, plants, and other items and play styles in the past.

Lets put aside that Siege sucks for a moment. What are we going to transfer for? Champion spawns? Peerless? We already do that. There is no point in going to a lower population shard and spending a lot of time training a character to do what we already can on our home shard. If we want a fight we can do Despise. But doing Despise is boring after you've done it thousands of times. Doing Despise on Siege is not going to suddenly make it fun.

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Yeah, because not being the dominate guild is no fun at all. SP has true FFA PvP and the people are all there because they are looking for a fight and that fight is shard wide. If you make someone mad at a spawn in Despise they can hunt you for the next month or so if they feel like it and you have no safe place to run to or hide in...to a true PvPer that would seem pretty fun to me. Also, Mugen has been one of the most populated shards lately.

Most players that are left are blind loyalists and brainwashed sheeple.

As for me; I find that I am very bored with this game and don't see a future with no expansion coming.

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Thanks for speaking for me. You couldn't be more wrong though. I am far from blind. I just realise that expansions ARE NOT NEEDED to introduce new content. All expansions do is introduce content while requiring you to pay for it. You can introduce expansion like content without requiring people to pay for it. WoW has done it many times. Also, I have played almost everything out there and I have seen this same rant that there is never enough to do across the entire MMORPG genre, but most of the players seem to never be happy with what the developers introduce no matter how much they introduce. As long as I am not stuck running the same dungeon week after week with a guild only to depend on the RNG for my advancement as a character I am happy.

The number one reason people leave these games is generally listed as 'bored with the existing content'. I am not pulling this out of my $#%. There are studies which show this to be the case.

This is an absolutely valid complaint and it applies to all levels of players, not just vets. If the operators of this game want to keep it alive, they will have to continuously add new content.

Its a tough business to keep an old game alive. I hope the team is up to the task.

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While I agree with your comment...that is across ALL games. Some people just never are satisfied and keep looking for new games to make into their life. There is one MMORPG that never gets old because it is exactly what you make it and that is called REAL LIFE. I really don't give a damn why people leave this game because they are going to say whatever they want. The people that stay with this game matter to me. Quitters quit because they wanted to. People stay with games because they wanted to. In the end, adding content or not adding content has VERY little influence on people deciding to leave the game or not if they are playing with people they enjoy playing with and chosing their own play sytle then they are less likely to leave.

you want a challenge you say? How about try and get rid of the anything goes to win reputation you and youre guild and most people you know are known for? Maybe the game would be harder if you didnt take the path of least resistance at every opurtunity?

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I have to agree...its very sad when scripters, gankers, and bank sitters start begging for new content because they are bored. Then when people point out that if they weren't scripters, gankers, and bank sitters they might actually have some enjoyment from this game and they are like..."Look man I'm not going to try doing something on an even playing field because thats boring."

Here is a note for all you PvP veteran gankers...if you want to leave because you are bored please do so and NEVER look back. I hear that palying WoW on the Horde side on the majority of servers will give you the same "challenge" you have in PvP here so go do so.

Stratics Veteran

...I really don't give a damn why people leave this game because they are going to say whatever they want. The people that stay with this game matter to me. Quitters quit because they wanted to. People stay with games because they wanted to. In the end, adding content or not adding content has VERY little influence on people deciding to leave the game or not if they are playing with people they enjoy playing with and choosing their own play style then they are less likely to leave.

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I would just suggest to you that is important why other people might leave a game you like. And that is because the size of population matters to both game play and the profit viability of the game.

Too many people leave and established game systems become dysfunctional. We are having some discussion about those in other threads right now. That costs development time, causes further players lose, and ultimately if it spirals down enough, the closing of the game.

That is why it is important to me that you keep playing, that JC keeps playing , and that all those worthless bank sitters keep playing.

I like the game and have enjoyed playing it on and off for ten years. I hope to see it continue. We need every player we can get the only exception being those that drive out other players, like the scripters and speed hacks.

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