Richard Sullivan @ WrestlingClassics.com Message Board wrote:
1] The National Wrestling Alliance is formed in 1948. It is incorporated in Iowa as NWA, Inc. in 1952. The members of NWA, Inc. (non-profit Iowa corp) voted to transfer all accounts over to that particular entity (formed in North Carolina) in November 1996.

2] In 1985, Jim Crockett Promotions, Inc. commissions a new giant gold belt ("Big Goldy") to represent the NWA World heavyweight championship. The belt is the physical property of JCP, Inc. and not the NWA.

3] In late 1988, Turner Broadcasting purchases the key assets of Jim Crockett Promotions and forms its own wrestling company, first called the Universal Wrestling Corporation, then World Championship Wrestling, Inc. This new group continues to advertise matches as being for "the NWA World heavyweight championship;" however, after Sting wins the title in 1990, complaint was made by NWA against WCW that Turner Broadcasting/WCW was not an NWA member although JCP was. WCW joined NWA but eventually recognizes its own WCW World title. The NWA World title and the WCW World title are clearly separate entities, often times defended on the same shows, in separate matches, by separate champions.

4] In 1993, WCW, Inc. tries to switch the NWA World title from Ric Flair to Rick Rude without NWA approval (even taping matches with Rude wearing the belt before the "switch"). The NWA takes WCW, Inc. to court and a judge rules in favor of the NWA, ordering WCW, Inc. to cease in its advertising of NWA title matches without permission and ordering WCW, Inc. to read a statement disavowing any link to the physical belt (which they owned) and the NWA title itself.

5] Tony Schiavone reads a statement on WCW Saturday Night disavowing any link between the physical belt which formerly represented the NWA World title and the NWA World title itself, thus ending any lineage.

6] The physical belt in question is then "renamed" the "WCW International" World heavyweight championship. That title is eventually unified with the WCW World heavyweight championship, with "Big Goldy" used as the symbol.

7] The NWA World title continues on with members throughout the U.S., Canada, England, and Japan.

8] The WWF brings Dan Severn in and bills him as the NWA World heavyweight champion. The WWF doesn't rejoin the NWA and stakes no claim to owning the NWA trademark. The WCW World title, meanwhile, is being defended on a rival show, on another network, at the same exact time.

9] In 2001, World Wrestling Federation Entertainment, Inc. purchases key assets from Time-Warner/AOL, which owns WCW, Inc., including the "WCW" trademark and the physical belt known as "Big Goldy."

10] In order to stress the importance of "Big Goldy," and thus market it as a viable commercial property, the WWF begins a campaign to create confusion in the marketplace, blatantly mentioning the names of Frank Gotch, Lou Thesz, Dory Funk Jr., Jack Brisco, and Ricky Steamboat as "former WCW champions." None of the names mentioned ever held the WCW title. Only Steamboat held the physical belt, and that was when it represented the completely separate NWA World title.

These are facts but not my opinions.

Last edited by Hisaharu Tanabe on 2005/04/13 Wed 6:36 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Just to (hopefully) set the record straight on this once and for all, here are the facts:

The NWA never became WCW.

The National Wrestling Alliance was and is an association of different promoters/companies from around the world.

World Championship Wrestling, Inc. was one member of that association.

Titles and their associated histories are intellectual property. A belt is a prop used to physically represent a title. The two are not the same. A person can be recognized as a champion without holding a belt.

The NWA World heavyweight title is and always has been the property of the National Wrestling Alliance, regardless of who or what individual promoter supposedly "controls" or monopolizes it.

The WCW World heavyweight title was the property of World Championship Wrestling, Inc. and was sold to World Wrestling (Federation) Entertainemnt, Inc. in March 2001. It was renamed just the "World championship" in November 2001 after WCW was "put out of business", and was "unified" with the WWF title the following month to form the "Undisputed" title. In September 2002, the title was brought back by RAW General Manager Eric Bischoff (with the word "Heavyweight added) and awarded to Triple H on the grounds that he no longer considered Brock Lesnar the "Undisputed" champion since he signed a contract to wrestle exclusively for SmackDown!, and therefore, could not defend the title against Triple H, who was the official #1 contender. Despite what WWE may say, it is not, nor has it ever been, the same as the NWA World heavyweight title. The only link they share (aside from the fact that the same physical belt has been used to represent them) is that they were held by the same person for approximately a six month period in 1991.

The "WCW International" World heavyweight title was the property of World Championship Wrestling, Inc. and was created by the company after it withdrew from the National Wrestling Alliance in 1993. It was abandoned after being "unified" with the WCW World heavyweight title in 1994. Also like the WCW title, it is not, nor was it ever, the same as the NWA World heavyweight title. The only link it shares to the NWA title is that both have been represented by the same physical belt.

Consequently, said physical belt in question (Big Goldy) was originally owned by Ric Flair. He sold it to World Championship Wrestling, Inc. in the spring of 1992, who eventually sold it to WW(F)E, Inc. in March 2001.

So to summarize:

NWA World heayyweight title: property of National Wrestling Alliance since 1948.

WCW World heavyweight title: property of World Championship Wrestling, Inc. from 1991 until 2001 when it is sold to World Wrestling (Federation) Entertainment. Inc. Renamed "World title" in November 2001, and "unified" with WWF title the following month to form "Undisputed" title. Resurrected as "World heavyweight title" in September 2002 after a "dispute" arises

"WCW International" World heavyweight title: property of World Championship Wrestling, Inc. from 1993-94. "Unified" with WCW World heavyweight title in 1994.

Big Goldy (physical belt): property of Ric Flair from 1986-92. Sold to WCW, Inc. in 1992, which in turn sells it to WW(F)E, Inc. in March 2001. Used to represent the following titles over the years (keeping in mind that the belt is merely a prop and is NOT the title itself)

NWA World heavyweight title: 1986-91

WCW World heavyweight title: 1991 (reigning NWA World champion also named as WCW World champion)

*Flair leaves WCW in 1991 for WWF.

"Real World championship" (WWF): 1991. *Not an "official" title.

*WCW, Inc. buys belt from Flair in spring 1992

NWA World heavyweight title:
1992-93

World heavyweight title/"WCW International" World title: 1993-94. *Created after WCW leaves NWA. Rick Rude recognized as first champion after beating Flair (who had previously been the NWA World champion prior to the split) in a match only advertised as being for the "Big Gold Belt". "Unified" with WCW World title in June 1994

WCW World heavyweight title: June 1994-November 2001.

*Belt replated and releathered sometime around 2000, and it's been said that at least two replicas were used in it's place during that period. Bought by WW(F)E, Inc. in March 2001.

World title: November 2001-December 2001. Title renamed after WCW "goes out of business. "Unified" w/ WWF title to form "Undisputed" WWF title.

"Undisputed" WWF title: December 2001-March or April 2002 (along with WWF championship belt)

World heavyweight title: September 2002 - 2003. Brought back again to represent this resurrected title after "Undisputed" title is announced as being in dispute. Eventually replaced with a new version of Big Goldy bearing the WWE logo.

Finally someone who understands the linage of the World Heavyweight Championship

Its the freakin linage of the WCW world title...people forget that in september...Bisch cleary (storyline wise) said that the Undisputed Title (wcwworldtitle/worldtitle and the wwe title) is being disputed....

At that time storyline wise RAW could have said HHH was the new wwe champion...but i guess the officals at titan gave the World moniker to RAW and WWE to SMACKDOWN...

on septmebre 2nd...bisch split teh Undisputed title..he disputed the combind title of wcwworld/world and wwe title....

he claimed the Name World Heavyweight Championship...cuz thats makes sense. the belt that they used was part of the undiputed title....(now in dispute)

therefore the World Heavyweight Championship linage is that of wcw title beginging in 1991 w/ flair

shows like confidentional claim that title linage goes back to NWA

NO

Belt linage does....but NOT Title

two different things....

this belt is so cool ...for so many reasons...HHH is with Flair the first champion in a horsemen like gruop..called evolution great named..

the belt itself is a great looking belt....now with wwe logo on it...name plate idea was so ahead of its time...

Buddy rodgers 1st wwe champion kurt angle latest

ric flair first World Heavyweight Champion HHH latest

its that easy!! ne one else who thinks otherwise...just doesn't get it

I consider the Raw Title to be the old WCW Title, and list it as such in my own records. I understand the arguements for and against this.

And I actually had to think on this. WWE Confidential did a great special on the Title in which they linked it to the WCW and NWA titles and beyond. It made sence. I see it as the WWWF/WWF/WWE World Title and the WCW (which grew from the NWA title) World Title being unified. When Lesnar split to Smackdoiwn, one "Governing Body" of the Proffesional Wrestling pulled their recognition of him as Champion. They seperated the two belts. It was just confusing that those two titles had been represented by one new belt.

Before the WCW Title was unified with the WWF Title it was renamed the "World" Title by the only "Governing Body" in the WWF at the time. When the Raw managment named Triple H Champion they presented him with the "World" Title. Same name, same physical belt.

Also, on Chris Jericho's website he lists himself as winning both the WCW and WWF Titles at Vengeance and then loosing BOTH titles (not "The Undisputed Title") to Triple H at Mania. So if anything that's how one actual wrestler see's it.

However there is a contridiction to this. When Booker T was feuding with Triple H, HHH and Flair repeatedly said that Booker was a 5 time WCW champion but Triple H was "The World Champion." This suggests that they don't consider the WCW Title a World Title (at least under WCW) but then one has to wonder where the rest of Flair's 16 World Championships come from. I'll count this up to bad writting on Raw.

The biggest question is who can judge or claim World Title Status. I mean, technically I could form my own company tomorrow and name my first Champion a World Champion.

For this reason, I tend to go by PWI's listings. I know they arn't an authority but they at least try to hold a Title up to a standard for World Title status. I don't always agree with them, but they make an effort that few else do.

But then that make's things interesting. They don't consider the NWA title a World Title as of WCW withdrawing from the NWA. If anything they should reconsider that now with TNA elevating the title's prestige again. A lot of people I know thought NWA closed after WCW left and were surprised when TNA debuted.

Also, they don't consider the ECW Title a World Title untill when ECW secured a TV deal with TNN. They said the company wasn't high profile enough untill then. Let's face it, ECW wasn't seen all over the US untill then. I know plenty of people that were wrestling fans in the 90s that have never seen an ECW show.

They also stripped WWF's title of World Title status during Backlund's reign after he regained the belt from Inoki. They said that (how timely is this) Bob didn't defend his title against enough top scientific challengers. Oddly they gave the title back it's status after Hogan won it (I think that's when they gave it back).

So I guess it all comes down to what you go by and your own opinion. Still, I love discussing it.

So I guess the question is will the Raw Title be connected to the WCW Title on the website?

The thing I've wondered about is why WWE created new Tag Belts for Smackdown rather than "didpute" the WCW World Tag Team Title that was unified with the WWF World Tag Team Title at Survivor Series 91. That seems to be what they are doing with the NWA/WCW United States Title that was unified with the WWF Intercontinental Title on the same night.

Sorry if I'm off topic here, but I've always found it funny that WWE dropped the WWF Light Heavyweight Title and pretty much acknowledged that the WCW Cruiserweight Title was superior by making it their own.

Here's an interesting "official" listing from NWA's website on the Tatsumi Fujinami situation:

1991
On January 11th, Ric Flair defeats Sting in East Rutherford, New Jersey, USA. With all but a few of the regional NWA "territories" no longer operating, the title begins to be referred to as the World Championship Wrestling World Heavyweight title by WCW television announcers as they make the two names interchangeable.
On March 21st, Tatsumi Fujinami defeats Ric Flair in Tokyo. Although Fujinami is recognized as the only NWA World Heavyweight Champion, the WCW World Heayweight title is given to Flair after the decision was changed by WCW to a disqualification, thus splitting the championship.
On May 19th, Ric Flair defeats Tatsumi Fujinami in St. Petersburg, Florida to re-unify the two belts. (my note, should probably say the two Titles)
On September 8th, Ric Flair is stripped of the NWA World Heavyweight Championship when he enters the World Wrestling Federation as the "Real World Champion."

i wrote an Email to the webmaster asking him why the wcw title and the world title aren't on teh same link when they clearly are the same title....

hopefully he will respond with his answer...i also ask anyone else why they think the two titles aren't the same..please give a me reason...

the SMACKDOWN wwe tag title situation...is like this...wwe can just make a belt out of think air...or say they have teh right to b/c the had wcw titles..either way...u will still have the belts being created

wwe just didn't see fit to bring wcw name up again...(with world title they didn't need to it was already called the world title and it made sense disputing the undisputed titles)

so u can make a claim that thewcw and wwe tag belts are the same....just like the united states belt coming back...

people see fit to use the direct nwa/wcw lineage to that belt...

in my opinion SMACDOWN has the
WWE championship with that lineage
the old WCW tag titles= wwe tag championship
us title with the old wcw nwa lineage
Crusierweight lineage

while RAW has
world H title with wcw lineage
world tag with wwe lineage
intercontinental- duh
womens is from the old nwa days to wwe to now...

it makes sense being that wwe bought those belts and the historys when they bought wcw...

RAW has old wwe belts and wcw world title
SMACK has old wwe world title with wcw belts

i don't the WWE cares to explain it...but doesn't it seem better to think that they have lineages to use... instead of creating them out of think air... please give me your opinions about this...and i will respond ASAP

Originally posted by Talison Here's an interesting "official" listing from NWA's website on the Tatsumi Fujinami situation:

1991
On March 21st, Tatsumi Fujinami defeats Ric Flair in Tokyo. Although Fujinami is recognized as the only NWA World Heavyweight Champion, the WCW World Heayweight title is given to Flair after the decision was changed by WCW to a disqualification, thus splitting the championship.
On May 19th, Ric Flair defeats Tatsumi Fujinami in St. Petersburg, Florida to re-unify the two belts. (my note, should probably say the two Titles)

Fujinami's "reign" as NWA World heavyweight champion and Flair's "regaining" the title is revisionist history on the part of the National Wrestling Alliance.

At the time those two matches took place, there was no distinction made by either World Championship Wrestling or New Japan Pro Wrestling between the NWA and WCW World titles. On the surface, they were considered to be the same championship (even though, in reality, they obviously weren't). Flair was called the "WCW" World champion by World Championship Wrestling, while in Japan, he was called the "NWA" World champion (since the name "NWA" carried a great deal of prestige over there while the name "WCW" didn't mean jack squat).

After Fujinami pinned Flair, he was billed in Japan as the "NWA" World champion. However, World Championship Wrestling disputed the finish and continued to bill Flair as the "WCW" World champion. They didn't recognize Fujinami as the new NWA champ, nor did New Japan acknowledge that Flair was still the WCW champ. Each promotion simply claimed that they had the rightful world champ (be he called "NWA" or "WCW") and that the other promotion didn't.

So when Flair defeated Fujinami in the rematch a couple of months later to supposedly "re-unify" the two titles, he didn't really re-unify anything. All he did was end a dispute as to who the rightful world champion was.

It wasn't until several months after the fact that the NWA Board of Directors decided to recognize the two matches as "official" title changes. Meaning at the time they originally took place, Flair not only still held the WCW title, but was also still the official NWA World champion as well, regardless of how Fujinami was billed in Japan.

From what I understand, the main reason the NWA decided to retroactively recognize Fujinami as having won the title was due to some prodding from WCW. When Flair returned to the company in early 1993, he was billed as a 9 time former world champion, and they even recognized the two title reigns he had in the WWF. However, somewhere down the road, they apparently decided that it wasn't in their best interests to acknowledge his accomplishments for the competition, so they ended up "replacing" his two WWF title reigns after petitioning the NWA to officially recognize two title reigns of his that previously hadn't been. Those being his loss to and victory over Harley Race in New Zealand and Singapore, respectively, in 1984 (which happend, but had never been acknowledged by anybody) and the loss and subsequent victory over Fujinami in 1991 (which was only regarded as a title change in Japan). A second reason why they probably decided to recognize the matches with Fujinami in particular had to due with politics, since New Japan honcho Seiji Sakaguchi just so happend to be NWA President at the time.

On September 8th, Ric Flair is stripped of the NWA World Heavyweight Championship when he enters the World Wrestling Federation as the "Real World Champion".

According to info I have taken from Gary Will, the date Flair was stripped of the title was actually September 13, 1991. This occurred in Charlotte, NC, presumably at the NWA's annual meeting. The NWA Board of Directors elected World Championship Wrestling, Inc. Executive Vice President Jim Herd the new President of the National Wrestling Alliance. He then officially stripped Flair of recognition as NWA World heavyweight champion and subsequently awarded it to WCW World heavyweight champion Lex Luger. The latter decision was eventually rescinded for probably either one of the following two reasons, or possibly both.

1) The original plan was to apparently change the tradename used by World Championship Wrestling, Inc. from "WCW" back to "NWA", and they were going to start referring to all of their TV shows and titles as "NWA" again (including the World heavyweight championship). However, they came to the conclusion that all of the name switching would no doubt confuse the heck out of the fans, so they decided to hold tournaments to bring back the NWA World heavyweight and NWA World tag team titles as independent entities instead.

In addition.

2) The actual "NWA" World championship belt was owned by Ric Flair at the time, and they were involved in negotations with him to try and get it back. They probably felt they couldn't have a legitimate "NWA" World champion without the "NWA" belt. When he sold it to them, it was already spring 1992. And by that point, I think they had already settled on having the tourneys anyway.

Originally posted by joeyi i wrote an Email to the webmaster asking him why the wcw title and the world title aren't on teh same link when they clearly are the same title....

hopefully he will respond with his answer...i also ask anyone else why they think the two titles aren't the same..please give a me reason...

the SMACKDOWN wwe tag title situation...is like this...wwe can just make a belt out of think air...or say they have teh right to b/c the had wcw titles..either way...u will still have the belts being created

wwe just didn't see fit to bring wcw name up again...(with world title they didn't need to it was already called the world title and it made sense disputing the undisputed titles)

so u can make a claim that thewcw and wwe tag belts are the same....just like the united states belt coming back...

people see fit to use the direct nwa/wcw lineage to that belt...

in my opinion SMACDOWN has the
WWE championship with that lineage
the old WCW tag titles= wwe tag championship
us title with the old wcw nwa lineage
Crusierweight lineage

while RAW has
world H title with wcw lineage
world tag with wwe lineage
intercontinental- duh
womens is from the old nwa days to wwe to now...

it makes sense being that wwe bought those belts and the historys when they bought wcw...

RAW has old wwe belts and wcw world title
SMACK has old wwe world title with wcw belts

i don't the WWE cares to explain it...but doesn't it seem better to think that they have lineages to use... instead of creating them out of think air... please give me your opinions about this...and i will respond ASAP

(WWE) World tag team title: the original WWF/E tag team title. Only called "World" tag team title now to coincide with the top singles title of the "brand" being called just the World heavyweight title.

WWE Intercontinental title

WWE Women's title

SmackDown!

WWE (World heavyweight) title: the original WWF/E World title, held by Hogan, Savage, Backlund, Sammartino, etc.

WWE (World) tag team title: a completely new championship created last year. Has no link to the WCW World tag team title. Why not? Because they never said it did.

WWE United States title: old "NWA" (JCP)/WCW United States title. Why? Because they say so.

I knew that Tatsumi Fujinami's reign was retroactive. I just didn't know why. I figured the NWA did it to make Flair look bad after he left (adding a loss onto him) but I wasn't basing that on anything. I wasn't watching NWA or WCW at the time, in fact I was barley watching WWF.

The reason I posted the bit from NWA's Website was that I found it interesting that they consider the rematch a "unification" of the NWA and WCW Titles.

Also, I had heard that Luger was breifly recognized as Champion (PWI mentions it in there istings) but I didn't know the details.

So, Dan. You seem very well informed. Do you yourself consider any of the WWE, Raw, or NWA Titles World Titles? Just wondering.

WWE World Heavyweight Championship and WCW World Heavyweight Championship were unified into the Undisputed WWE Heavyweight Championship.

Then Disputed by Eric Bishoff who took the WCW World Heavyweight Championship (just named the World Heavyweight Championship in November when WCW name was phased out. DUH)

RAW
(WCW) The World Heavyweight Championship

SMACKDOWN
WWE World Heavyweight Championship OR The “WWE Championship”

WWE Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship and the WCW US Heavyweight Championship. – Both were Unified at Survivor Series 2001 and the b/c WWE won the SS Main Event the WCW US Heavyweight Championship was “absorbed” into the WWE Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship.

Then Added to the WWE Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship along the way was the WWE Hardcore Championship and WWE European Heavyweight Championship ending those lineages. Even the WWE Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship was absorbed into The World Heavyweight Championship but then brought back.

June10th Stephanie McMahon basically (didn’t say it like Bisch did when he disputed the World Title) Disputed the WWE Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship (just called on RAW The Intercontinental Championship) when she brought back the WCW US Heavyweight Championship (renamed WWE US Heavyweight Championship) This belt was “absorbed” within the WWE Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship

Stephanie is disputing this unification: not creating the title out of thin air.

The WWE Tag Team Heavyweight Championships and The WCW World Tag Team Heavyweight Championships. They were Unified JUST LIKE the WWE Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship and the WCW US Heavyweight Championship, on the very same night.

So when the WWE Tag Team Heavyweight Championships became exclusive to RAW, the titles were the same titles that had the WCW World Tag Team Heavyweight Championships were absorbed into.

So THEN again Stephanie brings out titles. (This happened before the US title, Chronology is off with this example) and says these are new titles. NEW titles don’t have the same prestige as ones with longs histories. So just like Bischoff before her, why couldn’t Stef, just dispute the WWE World Tag Team Heavyweight Championships (RAW) and because of the SS2001 unification match, claim a lineage of 10 years.

We found out NOW that the US Title has kept it’s own history, just b/c there is no defining name like United States Championship means that b/c these are just Tag Team titles they must be new.
Figure these are the WCW World Tag Team Heavyweight Championships, with the name (WWE) in front of World Tag Team Heavyweight Championships (WWE Tag Team Championships)
I know Stephanie NEVER said they have that lineage therefore there NOT, but they did it with the US title therefore the Tag Titles should be considered the same way!

Now the WCW Cruiserweight Championship and the Light Heavyweight Championship. The Light Heavyweight Championship was dropped b/c the name Light Heavyweight was held in lower light the Cruiserweight. That is the reason WWE kept the WCW Cruiserweight Championship and renamed it the WWE Cruiserweight Championship. And built a division around the name Cruiserweight!

Originally posted by Talison So, Dan. You seem very well informed. Do you yourself consider any of the WWE, Raw, or NWA Titles World Titles? Just wondering.

I think WWE's titles are the closest thing you can get to a world championship nowadays.

As for the NWA title, it's clearly not as prestigious as it used to be, but TNA is giving it some much needed exposure, and having it defended on a couple of the WWA PPVs definitely doesn't hurt matters much either.

Well, I don't see that the Smackdown Tag Titles have anything to do with the WCW Titles.

Stephanie never disputed the WCW Tag Titles. She said something like, "I am creating NEW Tag Team Titles that will be exclusive to Smackdown."

Where as with the US Belt she said, "I am bringing back the US Title" and Smackdown made a big deal out of the belt's prestigious history. Even if they failed to mention that both Finalists in the Tournament (as well as Rhyno) had already held the US Title either in WCW or in the Alliance.

But the point is they never claimed it was the WCW Tag Title. It's a technicality but an important one.