It's relatively expensive, and I think a lot people realize the model 3 isn't much more. I briefly looked at one since my sister in law works for GM and I could get a solid discount, but there are a ton of options that push the price up to where I thought it wasn't worth it.

I have a Bolt and a Model 3. I bought the Bolt in late 2016 and I have no regrets. I like small hatches more than sedans and it does some things better than the Model 3 such as one pedal driving, auto-beams, airplay, real car console, etc. But after having the Model 3 (AWD) for two months, I came to the same conclusion as you. The Model 3 is simply a better driving machine. The Bolt is not tuned for the power it put on the wheels. Unless heavily discounted (~10K), I would not recommend a Bold over a Model 3. I paid $12K more for the Model 3 over the Bold and it is still a much better value.

The seats in the Bolt were so bad I thought I had accidently gotten into a .... well actually most cars have better seats, but a car that should cost 15k but those cars have pretty good seats now. They cut corners in very odd places and did so badly. I really wanted to get a Bolt at some point. Also, all two of the test drives had major issues in the car. AC would not work right in one and the other had an issue with buttons falling off.

Strange. I had no issues with one of the first productions Bolts for two years now. In the mean time, the Model 3 has already been in the shop for a week in two months of ownership to change the front control unit and amplifier. Actually, the Tesla service has been pretty good and they got me a S P75 loaner. And as I said, I do think the Model 3 is a better value. Neither the Bolt or the Model 3 has seats that rise to the same level of comfort as my old Odyssey or Acura MDX as comparison points. Clearly, the Model 3 has better seats. In fact, just about every car I owned has had more plush seats than the Bolt but they are suprinsigly comfortable if you can fit in them.

Can you elaborate on this? We have two TM3s and pretty much only one-pedal drive (except minor brake when coming to a full stop from ~6 MPH) about 95% of the time, this includes both city & highway, in Los Angeles. What does the Bolt do that's better than this, does it do the full stop on regen? While I find it insignificant, it would be even better if the TM3 could bring the vehicle to a complete halt w/o needing brakes at all. It's at best a "last 5%" optimization, but would be welcomed, since the brakes right now are thought of as an emergency stopping device (outside the aforementioned 6 -> 0 MPH deceleration which still requires light brake pressure).

Is there something else the Bolt does? I descended Mount Wilson, 12+ miles of steep descent, without touching the brakes once. Of course, this is with regen set to Normal (not Low), and both our cars have dual motors.

I don't know the mechanics because I don't know much about cars but I've had both a Bolt and a BMW i3 and I understand what that guy was talking about. The regen braking is so different and the Bolt one is way better. I'll specify my experiences.

Bolt: Let go of the accelerator, the car comes to a complete stop by itself with the regen braking, no manual braking required.

i3: Let go of the accelerator, the car slows down to almost a complete stop, but then it starts rolling forward slowly at a solid ~1mph. 95% of the time, you have to tap the brake to bring it to a complete stop, then you can completely let go of the accelerator without fear of it rolling forward.

If you ask me, the i3 system is not as comfortable to drive as the Bolt's and I feel like it defeats the purpose of the regen braking system if you have to end up manually braking yourself anyway. Just my two cents.

Are we talking about in general, which is all of regen braking, not just the relatively minor end part which is very low speed

I'm talking about the entire thing, in my opinion. The Bolt brakes a lot harder than the i3, which makes it much easier to use, in my opinion and makes it so you rarely have to manually apply the brakes yourself. That, coupled with the fact that it actually comes to a complete stop, makes it a much better system to use, in my opinion.

Also, it has a brake pedal on the steering wheel that you can press to make it brake even harder. When I had my Bolt, I never really pressed the brake pedal. I either used the regen braking or the brake button on the steering wheel. So, in my experience, never having to manually press the brake pedal on the Bolt, compared to having to manually press it everytime you want to come to a complete stop on the i3, TM3 or any other EV, makes the Bolt regen braking system way better.

Is your TM3 RWD or Dual Motor?

I think you're confusing me with the other guy. I have a BMW i3 currently, used to have a Bolt, never had a Tesla.

How is regen any different from the brakes? In AWD cars it's doing the exact same thing (braking all four wheels). Do you mean for RWD, basically allowing you to have 100% rear brake bias?

Not sure I follow. The point of my discussion above is not to use the brakes. Not talking about anything else. And it's different in that you don't take your foot off one pedal and put it on another, then shift back when you want to accelerate again. And there's a lot finer control of how much you want (up to its maximum stopping capacity). This is not for track driving, it's for normal day to day driving. We're talking about single-pedal driving.

Well, I have been driving the Bolt for two years and it has spoiled me. I want the car to behave predictably in one pedal driving. I push the pedal and it moves forward. I lift the pedal and it stops. I don’t care how it does it.

On the other hand, I can’t fathom why I can spin the tires of the Bolt by pressing the “gas” pedal with traction control enabled. The only way I found to avoid it was using Blizzaks but went bare on the front wheels after 7K miles. Ergo, GM didn’t tune the traction control system for the electric drive system. The stock Bolt tires are a joke. Someone compared it like a rabbit trying to escape a fox going left and right when you floor the pedal from a stop.

It's got an open differential, like literally every factory Tesla. The only way it can torque vector between wheels is by grabbing brakes which is far from instant. No shit it spins wheels. No traction control system can override the fact power takes the path of least resistance through an open diff, and that grabbing one wheel to stop it from spinning will send more torque to the other wheel, breaking it loose.

I'm sorry, but this is actually hilarious. You actually think you can flat foot a FWD that makes peak torque at 0rpm and not get wheelspin? That's like speeding past a police car and being surprised when it pulls you over.

You are assuming that the traction control system for an EV has to work exactly the same way as it has always been. If the car can sense that the wheels are slipping it can simply choose to reduce power to the engine so that slipping stops. The engine response should be instant and it can even act as a brake. No need to apply the actual brakes. There is no reason to deliver instant power if the wheels can not transfer it forward motion.

Before the Bolt i used to drive a Volt, admittedly with a less powerful engine, and this never happened.

The Bolt with stock tires can spin them even when traveling 30 miles per hour (or even more if the pavement is wet. What’s the point delivering all this torque if the car cannot use it). The Bolt with serenity plus is pretty good on dry pavement but still spins tired below 20 miles per hour on wet pavement. My point is the traction control system should have been designed to respond to actual situation. How about some sensors in the back tires? Pretty easy to tell if the front wheels are spinning and instantly modulate power to the engine. The feeling I get is that GM designed the car to do market research rather than sell it for real in volume. I do think it is more than a compliance car.

FWD typically refers to "Front Wheel Drive". OP may have meant "Falcon Wing Doors". OP, please use the term FW Door(s) if needed here to avoid confusion. Please let the Mods know if I need an adjustment, I'm not perfect.

FWD typically refers to "Front Wheel Drive". OP may have meant "Falcon Wing Doors". OP, please use the term FW Door(s) if needed here to avoid confusion. Please let the Mods know if I need an adjustment, I'm not perfect.