Can we get some basic general cooking crafts for burning hunks of wolf/rabbit/etc meat. Currently you can skin and butcher corpses and get raw hunks of meat and sometimes intestines. But you basically can only eat these raw without the appropriate cooking skills.

Gobbo wrote:Can we get some basic general cooking crafts for burning hunks of wolf/rabbit/etc meat.

'Roast plain-meat', now under the general-cooking craftset, is supposed to take 'a hunk of raw $meat meat, a hunk of raw $beastmeat meat, or a hunk of raw, stringy lizard meat' and produce burnt meat on failure.

Gobbo wrote:Can we get some basic general cooking crafts for burning hunks of wolf/rabbit/etc meat.

'Roast plain-meat', now under the general-cooking craftset, is supposed to take 'a hunk of raw $meat meat, a hunk of raw $beastmeat meat, or a hunk of raw, stringy lizard meat' and produce burnt meat on failure.

Does your PC not have it, or is it not working for you?

I'm 90% sure I dont have it. I'll have to check when the snow storm passes . At least I'm positive when I examined raw wolf meat and raw rabbit meat I didn't not have any crafting options like I should if they could be used in said craft.

Gobbo wrote:Can we get some basic general cooking crafts for burning hunks of wolf/rabbit/etc meat.

'Roast plain-meat', now under the general-cooking craftset, is supposed to take 'a hunk of raw $meat meat, a hunk of raw $beastmeat meat, or a hunk of raw, stringy lizard meat' and produce burnt meat on failure.

Does your PC not have it, or is it not working for you?

I'm 90% sure I dont have it. I'll have to check when the snow storm passes . At least I'm positive when I examined raw wolf meat and raw rabbit meat I didn't not have any crafting options like I should if they could be used in said craft.

After some discussion with a staff member, roast plain-meat is not something you can start with because it uses the cooking skill. It is suppose to be under general cooking but you need to have cooking selected as a skill to use it.

Seeing that..I return to my original point. Can we have a skill that lets us straight up burn hunks of meat rather than eating them raw?

Gobbo wrote:After some discussion with a staff member, roast plain-meat is not something you can start with because it uses the cooking skill. It is suppose to be under general cooking but you need to have cooking selected as a skill to use it.

Seeing that..I return to my original point. Can we have a skill that lets us straight up burn hunks of meat rather than eating them raw?

Err. This is not currently working as intended, per Frigga's post here:

"Roast plain-meat was combined switched to general-cooking and was set as an opener for Common and Cooking. So - go get your meat on."

Whether it can be fixed or whether the old 'roast burnt-meat' craft will need to be reinstated, I can't say -- but you can cross-post to the Broken Crafts thread if you don't want to wait for staff to check this one.

remove the copse scouting from foraging if that's where it is. I can see having the foraging skill for knowing about finding what's good to eat, but trees ain't hard to find in a forest and there's really no good reason to need specialized knowledge to find one or a group of them. Yeah that would also apply to getting your basic log and firewood. You could argue that no copse call is even needed because hello you're in a whole forest of trees.
Actually making good cuts for woodworking projects is another matter and I have no objection to its requiring specialized skill, but anyone can cut down a tree if they've got enough strength, and since firewood's just basically straps that can be burned, you don't need much skill to make useable firewood.
*sighs* Yeah, I guess this suggestion's another "put it back the way it was". Sorry, I'd really rather not be as negative as my posts seem to be, but if and when I manage to find things I like better in the new SOI, I'll try to remember to make a point of saying as much.

mongwen wrote:remove the copse scouting from foraging if that's where it is. I can see having the foraging skill for knowing about finding what's good to eat, but trees ain't hard to find in a forest and there's really no good reason to need specialized knowledge to find one or a group of them. Yeah that would also apply to getting your basic log and firewood. You could argue that no copse call is even needed because hello you're in a whole forest of trees.
Actually making good cuts for woodworking projects is another matter and I have no objection to its requiring specialized skill, but anyone can cut down a tree if they've got enough strength, and since firewood's just basically straps that can be burned, you don't need much skill to make useable firewood.
*sighs* Yeah, I guess this suggestion's another "put it back the way it was". Sorry, I'd really rather not be as negative as my posts seem to be, but if and when I manage to find things I like better in the new SOI, I'll try to remember to make a point of saying as much.

you don't need any skill to find trees. Just gather a few unskilled buddies and type forage in every room you enter. You'll find a tree copse pretty quickly

A really bad sword with a short blade lies here.
look sword
This sword hardly even a sword. It's kind of really just a piece of metal bent like a sword. Its blade is rather short. Kind of pathetic, really.

the potato pancakes that used to be a northman specialty if you don't have them. I don't remember what they were called. Other kinds of pancakes, too. There used to be whole meals or something you could do with the pancakes, adding sausage or bacon or something like that I think. That dish with fruits too. Fruktsuppe or whatever it was called.
I admit I don't know what the cooking craft suite looks like since my current PC can't cook a lick, so if I'm asking for stuff you've already done, sorry.

I have noticed medicine lacks crafts, so I wanted to suggest a few ideas.

For the treatment of severe wounds and worse, instead of using the old "treat <character name> <area>" which uses first aid skill, why not implement multi-step procedures commonly utilized in surgery since ancient times?

For example, the suturing of severe slashes and gores could be a multistep process:

This is basically what I have been rping in-game in addition to rping wound cleansing and the applications of topical ointments and salves, but as one player pointed out recently, it takes so long to rp realistically that by the time I move on to use the "treat" command, the character can proceed to infection, nullifying 15-30 mins of meticulous rp.

Materials required for the treatment of cuts and gores:
needle driver
forceps
intestine-derived thread
thread from flax, hemp, silk, or linen
curved needle
straight needle
And possibly sterilized water or a Middle Earth cleansing agent, healing salve/ointment (because they don't have IV antibiotics in M.E.), and sterile cloths or bandages.

30 min for a treatment feels really, really long as the patient. I'm sure it's good fun as the medic but I can only do so much wincing in various ways and reaction to pain RP before I don't know what to do with myself.

Particularly if it's daytime ingame or something, it is not fun to spend 45 min to an hour on a moderate wound, which I have experienced, even at the front-end of a patrol that left without me because they got to the point of "..." after it was clear that this was no brief treatment.

I would understand if it was a grievous, terrible, horrific gore to the abdomen or eye or something but it feels unreal the amount of time that treatments take in some cases. If you're talking and stuff sure, why not, I don't mind conversing while healing for a long while, but when I see the 100 tools come out I groan OOCly.

Re: Kudos thread, there is a certain grey-streaked individual IG who has it just right: He describes, medical things are clearly done and it's very explanatory what they are but he doesn't hold onto you and is aware of outside concerns that affect how much time should be spent.

Everything gets smaller now the further that I go
Towards the mouth and the reunion of the known and the unknown
Consider yourself lucky if you think of it as home
You can move mountains with your misery if you don't

Usually, the time I take for rping wound care, even severe wounds, is 15 mins or less (a single moderate in less than 5 mins), described usually in three or four small paragraphs. This includes time for conversation, the occasional lag, the rp of the wounded character, and the frequent rp with others in the room who are either observing or saying "Hey, can you help me with ___" or "I want to speak with you about ___", so actually that's quite fast imho.

The thirty minutes you are claiming has only occurred in a few isolated instances (e.g. grievous crushes to limbs, multiple infected wounds, and a complicated chest wound that involved multiple echoes).

What I'm suggesting btw is not a craft that requires 30 minutes of standing around waiting as you're probably suspecting, but rather something as simple as the act of skinning + butchering (2 + 2 mins of watching scrolling echoes and skill checks at most?) an animal.

No code changes for this 'Alpha,' really. Staff have repeatedly said that, and reinforced it. You're not going to see new commands added.

That's probably a good thing, in this case. The command suggested doesn't add too much to the game that 'treat' doesn't already have, and would be difficult to design with appropriate echoes for the large variety of injuries you'll come across. I'd be happy to see the 'remove person arrow' command fleshed out like the bullet one was for ARPI/PRPI, but...sometimes you've treated that severe wound six times already, down from a horrific, and you don't need extensive work done. Sometimes someone has to log! Treat as-is works just fine.

No code changes for this 'Alpha,' really. Staff have repeatedly said that, and reinforced it. You're not going to see new commands added.

That's probably a good thing, in this case.

It's a good thing medicine lacks a single craft? It's a good thing "treat" uses first-aid, even for the most severe wounds, instead of medicine?? In case you missed it, here's where I said it at the beginning of my "stuff":

I have noticed medicine lacks crafts, so I wanted to suggest a few ideas.

and

For the treatment of severe wounds and worse, instead of using the old "treat <character name> <area>" which uses first aid skill...

These are issues I was addressing with my suggestion of adding new crafts. While it makes sense that first-aid treats simple wounds, it's absurd that it's the default for everything. Why even have medicine as a skill when you can treat everything with first-aid? If there are no herbs to gather or utilize in-game and no specific or advanced treatments, how in the world is a healer going to be any different in skill or knowledge after four IG years of practice compared to the first day its player typed "commence"???

It's like playing a merchant guard who rises from militia green horn to sergeant after 1 irl year of nonstop daily play, surviving dozens of warg, orc, and spider encounters only to realize he's still as klutzy with a sword as he was the day he stepped off the barge in Utterby. Obviously, such a glaring problem would call for some kind of coded solution, if not what I'm suggesting, then something else, please!

Last edited by likui on Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

First off: medicine crafts, dear god please. Make my other skill pick matter outside of just making first-aid das uber skill. I don't want to be that guy, but I have 28 foraging crafts, so that I can gather the important difference between rhubarb, celery, and leeks, but no medicine crafts.

Secondly: When we get medical crafts, please let them be the mandatory, necessary things rather than RP buffers. What is being suggested here is really exciting, but we're working on a limited pool of staff willpower/enthusiasm/time. If we're going to put in medical crafts, give me the ability to:

a) Gather low-grade herbs from the wild that are treat-items that give a negative to first-aid skill, gatherable probably just with forage
b) Craft that turns these into first-aid kits, which have no skill negative or bonus
c) The ability to use moon-flowers to create well-stocked, moonflower-laced healer's kits, which provide a skill boost that is nice, but not as good as the actual moonflower, cause magic. C is particularly awesome because then it gives me a reason to keep up the moonflower farming night patrols (which are awesome), even though the flower itself fades away.

Likui, you're confusing 'code changes' with 'craft changes.' Coded commands are things like treat, or skin, or gather, or forage. There won't be new commands added in, and certainly not at request. You're missing a few vital pieces of information that make the command you're suggesting needless.

Craftsuites are entirely different from that, and you're posting code-changes in a crafting thread. I said there would be no new -code- changes...and in your specific case, that's absolutely a good thing, as 'treat' already FUNCTIONS.

You aren't differentiating from craft-suites and coded changes, and you're describing one as the other as if they were interchangable. They're not.

RE: Medicine is useless, you're equally absolutely wrong here. Medicine is used every time you treat, as a minimum roll for what your first-aid will do. It's so far from never being used that it's literally used as often as first-aid is, when it comes to treat. I beeeliieeeeve that maaaaybe minor injuries alone solely use first-aid, with no medicine check there. Education/literacy also works the same as medicine, providing a minimum role.

Medicine absolutely needs a craft suite. It's needed one ever since they 'finished' armorcrafting, only to re-open it later.

On differentiating bruises and cuts: Bruise remedies go: weakest, average, strongest so that they're less effective for treating spam sparring, but more effective for broken bones/fractures. and you get them at lower skill-levels. Cuts/stabs go: weak, average, strong.

On categories: There's no huge difference from weakest-to-strongest, simply because we're not playing with Atonement's sci-fi medical technology. Maybe at master+ we can eventually find near-magical herbs, but until then, we really shouldn't be working with magic herbs simply because we rolled in with four skills.

On production values: So you have weak(one common ingredient), average (one rare, one common), and strong(two rare, one average). These levels of ingredients would require scaling levels of forage, and they'd be -easier- to find in the swamps(incentivizing traveling into more dangerous areas). Rarer ingrediest are either found in the swamp easily/rarely, or harder in the forests/not at all.

On alternating skill-levels: I feel this is a nice thing to add, giving a pretty clear linear progression.

Modify crafts requiring fish oil and their jars. Maybe the jars are like the skins and start with say five uses (though I really think jars and skins both should have more), large pelts use all five, medium 3, small 1. This is in line with what little leatherwork my PC's done. Also add crafts that use small squares of suede so that scudding small pelts for eventual suede isn't wasted effort.

I've recently learned that when the craft calls for three of something, it's actually calling for three uses of that object. Game text needs to be changed to make that read clearer.

tehkory wrote: Medicine is used every time you treat, as a minimum roll for what your first-aid will do. It's so far from never being used that it's literally used as often as first-aid is, when it comes to treat.

It's rather difficult to believe when my medicine skill is still at starting level and I'm failing easy roll checks multiple times consecutively (two of them miserable failures) while my first aid is an entire level higher despite never treating minor wounds and only using a FA craft once:

tehkory wrote: Medicine is used every time you treat, as a minimum roll for what your first-aid will do. It's so far from never being used that it's literally used as often as first-aid is, when it comes to treat.

First-aid and medicine are -both- used when you type treat, as I said. Though Staff for some reason have removed the relevant helpfiles, here's a direct copy from PRPI.

Skills: Medicine
The Medicine skill is aided, but does not require Education
and boosts long-term treatment of wounds and proper initial
treatment of more serious wounds and gunshots. It also allows
the ability to treat bloodloss points, includes a major ability
to diagnose somatics and other problems, the ability to extract
bullets and heal internal injury, and further enhances binding
times.
It is differentiated from First Aid, which allows for the
treating of most wounds, but is unable to diagnose more subtle
nuances in somatics.
Last Updated: Sat Feb 19 13:48:39 2011, by Tiamat

tehkory wrote: Medicine is used every time you treat, as a minimum roll for what your first-aid will do. It's so far from never being used that it's literally used as often as first-aid is, when it comes to treat.

First-aid and medicine are -both- used when you type treat, as I said. Though Staff for some reason have removed the relevant helpfiles, here's a direct copy from PRPI.

Skills: Medicine
The Medicine skill is aided, but does not require Education
and boosts long-term treatment of wounds and proper initial
treatment of more serious wounds and gunshots. It also allows
the ability to treat bloodloss points, includes a major ability
to diagnose somatics and other problems, the ability to extract
bullets and heal internal injury, and further enhances binding
times.
It is differentiated from First Aid, which allows for the
treating of most wounds, but is unable to diagnose more subtle
nuances in somatics.
Last Updated: Sat Feb 19 13:48:39 2011, by Tiamat

I would really love a way to melt down the hundreds of awl-blades, hammer heads, utility blades, etc that people make while practicing their blacksmithing so that they can actually be used for something useful.