I am returning to DW for the first time in 6 months to try out Shadows, but still have an old familiar problem - Resource shortages despite an abundance of the resource in the galaxy.

For example, Silicon.

I can almost understand my internal problem, I have probably expanded too fast, too fast for my constructors and freight ship building to keep up. I have plenty of Silicon in stock, but little in transit. The pirates have been eliminated. My freight build queue is backed up waiting on ... Silicon!

However, the galactic trade has plenty of silicon in stock and in-transit. Why can't I get some of this silicon??? There are very few pirates left, I have plenty of money to pay and I have several (5) free trade agreements.

About the Trade, no player realy understand how cargo distribution and trade works at DW, but we all know we would do it better if we could do it manualy ! :-) But maybe the Galactic Silicon sources are far away from your empire, so no AI empire want send a freighter.

Since you know you need Silicon (and some other rare resources) very soon, you should order some construction ship manualy to build a mining base there soon you discover a source.

Thanks for the moral support, it is good to know that I am not alone in my ignorance of how the trade system works.

Addressing your points; - My empire is stalled just short of victory because we can't build anything. I have colonies throughout the galaxy. Therefore I don't believe distance should play a role. - I have plenty of silicon in stock, and many mining sites. I just can't get the stuff to where it is needed.

One would imagine that my desperation for Silicon would drive the price up and therefore have several other empires and/or pirates offering the stuff to me at inflated prices. There should be exchanges where it could be bought/sold.

Anyhow, what is the purpose of having this convoluted trade/freighter system if it doesn't work? Personally, I would love to have the option to drop the freighters/logistics and handle resources like Civ 5 does. g

I am returning to DW for the first time in 6 months to try out Shadows, but still have an old familiar problem - Resource shortages despite an abundance of the resource in the galaxy.

For example, Silicon.

I can almost understand my internal problem, I have probably expanded too fast, too fast for my constructors and freight ship building to keep up. I have plenty of Silicon in stock, but little in transit. The pirates have been eliminated. My freight build queue is backed up waiting on ... Silicon!

However, the galactic trade has plenty of silicon in stock and in-transit. Why can't I get some of this silicon??? There are very few pirates left, I have plenty of money to pay and I have several (5) free trade agreements.

Any insights/advice would be appreciated. thanks... g

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About the Trade, no player realy understand how cargo distribution and trade works at DW, but we all know we would do it better if we could do it manualy ! :-)

The way to get all resources spread across your colonies is to build one spaceport per system. Once you have colonized a planet in a system select the planet (largest / one with the most population if there is more than one) right click and choose to build a small spaceport, assign a small 4x destroyer defense fleet to that planet and build at all the resource points in that system that have more than 2 sources, start with the fuel ones first, does mean controlling the constructors manually, I have 10-15 constructors working for an 80+ colony empire for example, once the small spaceport has been built and the system has been mined retro fit it to a large spaceport. Make sure you colonize in a logical manner, do not stray to far from your influence circle so that the range for the freighters is not to much. Other things that may help is to maually design the private ships, best engines (10 on each class and 5 thrusters) and 5, 10 and 15 cargo holds on the freighters and when the choice becomes available, leave the private ships to Quantum(?)(purple) reactors (caslon) and your state ships to the blue top end one (hydrogen) also I have 12, 24 and 36 docking points in the three sizes of spaceport to allow a good through port. Only other thing is that the mine designs are kept an eye on, if you have those on auto design and build they can really cause problems, have one on manual retrofit ant the other on auto, change once that type is up to date, personally I would have the mine designs on manual and do them yourself, much easier and much easier to control the resource flow that is needed to upgrade them. As you choose the resource points in a system to build at you will learn over time which order to build them in, fuel, steel, gold etc. Keep an eye on your unfulfilled amounts and colonize at a speed that gives good growth but not so much that your resources are spread thin, more planets and spaceports mean more private ships, yet again only experience will let you gauge the speed needed.

Many thanks for your speedy and detailed comments. I had forgotten about building spaceports right away (I had it set on auto) and belatedly tried to build a bunch - only to find out that this has compounded my problem by creating even MORE demand for resources! I have over 20 constructors in the field, but they are all waiting on resources also.

I believe your advice is the proper way to build up and expand your empire in Distant Worlds, but personally I find it more micro-managing than I like. This is why we have computers, now and in the future (I hope!). I want to 4X the game (explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate), not exhaust myself with logistics.

Anyhow, I knew MMing was a problem with DW, but my real question is - why have this façade of a trading function? I have lots of $$$$ and critical demand for silicon, why can't I get any???

Anyhow, I knew MMing was a problem with DW, but my real question is - why have this façade of a trading function? I have lots of $$$$ and critical demand for silicon, why can't I get any???

That was the point of the post, that is why you have the shortage. You need to control all the resources as you expand, spaceports work like trade hubs, when a constructor gets a build order it will go to the nearest port and load from there, if the resources in a system are mined then the port has good stick thus leveling out the demand, if they are short of certain resources in a system a freighter will replenish from the next spaceport along, hence one spaceport in each system, and thus the resources are leveled. It honestly is not much of a micro, when I started playing a good few years ago I had everything on auto and just found it was better if I did certain things as I could control the flow of things better. This also comes around to colonies, the amount of freighters is dependent on the amount of colonies, more colonies mean more freighters which leads to more stock being moved, its a juggling act

No argument at all with what you say, I fully accept your POV. It is a case of "horses for courses" though, and the DW course has too much MM for this horse! And we haven't even talked about fleet/troop management! Gaw! I have two fleets stranded w/o fuel.

And to be clear, what I am wondering about is why does DW have these statistics for galactic supply/in-transit/unfilled resources when there does not appear to be a way to tap into the galactic market? g

And to be clear, what I am wondering about is why does DW have these statistics for galactic supply/in-transit/unfilled resources when there does not appear to be a way to tap into the galactic market?

Here we go into unknown territory

From what I have noticed the galaxy side of things is more to do with the independent traders, anything else is your own, the amounts for the galaxy side, I think, govern the selling price of your own stocks. You do 'tap into it' but yet again this is only from my own observations, if a colony is short of a resource the AI looks for the nearest point for your own private merchant fleet to get it from, if there is none then an order is put in on the galaxy side and you get it from there, I think the galaxy side has its own list of products to supply and that would include other empires as well and that would account for the reason sometimes it seems like forever before you get the resource needed.

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Gaw! I have two fleets stranded w/o fuel.

As I said, queue fuel as the first thing in a system. If I was able to find a video capture device that I could use with sound I would make a simple tutorial on this, the micro is not to much, and shoot me for being a geek, fun

So long you develop your homesystem with enough and the right resources you allways can build ships there without delays. You can build there defence fleets for your outer colonies.

Move your construction ship first to your homesystem, then order them to build forward gas mining station. Since they start from your homesystem they shouldn't got problems to finish the base. Or build Resupply ships.

I checked the empire again, and the skies are just crawling with freighters - going all over the place. However, they are all EMPTY! (well, I checked about 20 freighters, there are at least 150) That's right, there is nothing in the cargo!!! This explains why my stocks are high, my "in-transit" low and "unfulfilled demand" is very high.

Are they empty on refuel missions? Transport missions? On their way to be retired?

There seems to be a feature of the game that freighters use more time picking up cargo, than getting it to its destination. I guess it is due to them not being really close.

If you have fuel issues, I guess they may be limping around looking for fuel.

As for the silicon problem, have you tried to build more mines on sources?

Also, with Shadows you can find freighters working for you selected item by their travel vectors being red. Make sure to enable the civilian ones.

See the image, by following the source of the red arrow, it is possible to check that supplies are on their way. Those fetching resources work for their destination, the spaceport if there is one. Transport work for colonies, not spaceports. In the image, a stuck construction ship is selected, and indeed, one freighter is on its way, and there was no need to panic.

I found it quite fun to switch between spaceports and see who were the ones having freighters working for them. The capital spaceport is a winner... If you switch between colonies, it is quite easy to see where migrants are headed.

Don't forget about assigning pirate missions to bring resources to a location. That can help get something finished that is waiting on a resource or two. Also don't forget to cancel the mission when you have what you need.

Thanks everybody for your comments/suggestions. And Bingling for your insight into trade routes, that was new to me.

I admit that my particular current situation is caused by over expansion, that I understand. And I have been allowing pirate smuggling missions always, have plenty of fuel, built many starbases, killed off the pirates, have freighters in the build queue and have assigned constructors to build the necessary mines. The problem though is a high demand for resources (to do all the building) and high stocks that aren't being delivered.

What my concern/comment/frustration is: The game creates the impression that there is some sort of galactic trade going on, yet I can't get a share of it. I am using silicon as my example, but the comments apply to many other materials - there is plenty in galactic stocks and plenty in transit, the galaxy is drowning in silicon - but somehow my empire cannot get any, despite the fact that I have open trade agreements with several other empires and have plenty of cash. If the game is going to have this trade/freighter function - do it right.

On top of that, inside my empire, I have high stocks and extremely high demand. Yet little material in transit but plenty of empty freighters floating around. It does not make sense.

The freighter algorithm is not perfect, far from it, but it has improved quite a bit over time.

I think that it fails to respond to "major issues", which from a player's standpoint is builds being stuck. They appear a bit too fond of shifting moderate amount of luxuries. Nothing is quite as annoying when there is a major shortage, as discovering a large freighter going miles away to pick up 19 of some random luxury.

ORIGINAL: geosch I believe your advice is the proper way to build up and expand your empire in Distant Worlds, but personally I find it more micro-managing than I like. This is why we have computers, now and in the future (I hope!). I want to 4X the game (explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate), not exhaust myself with logistics.

I would add that any discussion on manual control should consider the rewards to the player ... and the rewards to the player here are massive. I do not mean just avoiding stalled construction. It enables my empires to expand, explore, exploit and exterminate far more quickly than on Auto.

Manual control in DW is worth trying as it maybe less tedious than you expect. As an example, manual control of constructors to ensure they are supplied from planets such as your homeworld with extensive resource supply and to ensure build order optimisation. They take a little time to build structures so you won't be bombarded with end of mission notifications. Once I have about 30 bases and the mix of resources needed for fast growth, most of those Constructors move to debris field ship repair, which takes even longer.

Call it logistics, call it micromanagement ... instead consider it an investment in enabling 4X megalomania. Optimising this has kept me interested for a lot longer than most other Strategy games.

That said, we all have a limit. A fleet of 70-100 explorers using "move to" (i.e. in order to quickly find goodies only around the galaxy rather than just explore everything) has defeated me ... even though the benefits are massive. Try that for a while and you may look at manual control of constructors and spaceports differently!

ORIGINAL: geosch And we haven't even talked about fleet/troop management! Gaw! I have two fleets stranded w/o fuel.

Fleet management is the best part of all!

Stranded without fuel ... we can help you avoid this forever more. It's very possible to have fleets on constant extermination duty without ever having a fuel problem ... if you get the logistics right!

Agree with everything said previously and would add: 1. Once you have enough Gas Mining Stations within your territory, start building them spaced around your territory, so fleets do not necessarily have to return to home to refuel (that said early game defences are weak so build in systems that are defensible or where you already have a presence) 2. Optimise your ship designs to have extra fuel cells and keep in mind fast research of the first few ship size technologies is key 3. Optimise your gas mining station designs to have an extra extractor or two and enough docking bays for your typical fleet sizes 4. Don't refuel multiple fleets at the same place (particularly when they have extra fuel cells) spread the refuelling duty around your sources ... most important, nothing will help you without this!

[...] As an example, manual control of constructors to ensure they are supplied from planets such as your homeworld with extensive resource supply and to ensure build order optimisation. [...]

This got my attention. I am reading that like you have found a way to make a constructor pick its construction materials from a specific spaceport? If that is true, I am stumped. In my experience, all constructors will always pick up their materials from the spaceport closest to the construction site. Here's one instance of the game trying to optimize for trip distance where it is absolutely useless.

Wait a minute, right now I am thinking of something: you could fake-order your constructor to build a structure close to your well-stocked capital and, once it has picked up the resources, stop it and issue the real order. Well, here you go, you always learn something new... Of course, you have to catch that constructor before it starts building at the fake-site or you'll have wasted part of your investment on some useless or unimportant structure.

Okay, in earnest: this is a crass example of the kind of dirty trickery you can apply to bend this game to your will. Of course micromanagement will get you out of almost any hole in DW. I don't know whether this is a blessing or a curse, though. The game must be balanced against players who do not micromanage much, or all would be pressed into doing this. The alternative of improving most automatisms to the point that a micromanager can't do much better can be safely dismissed. I do not think it is feasible with the scale of the game and just one programmer working on it.

In my experience the fun of playing this game is inversely proportional to the time I spend in dirty little details like the scenario described above. At the same time I just cannot let all those little (and big! talk about taxation) opportunities of doing something better pass by. The result is just a game without challenge that is only somewhat fun. I envy people like AntiScamp...

ORIGINAL: sbach2o I am reading that like you have found a way to make a constructor pick its construction materials from a specific spaceport? If that is true, I am stumped. In my experience, all constructors will always pick up their materials from the spaceport closest to the construction site. Here's one instance of the game trying to optimize for trip distance where it is absolutely useless.

There is no need for fake-orders and dirty tricks. For simplicity let's say it's early game. I move Constructors to my homeworld. Then I command them to build a structure and they take resources from the homeworld. When finished building I move them back to my homeworld.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o The game must be balanced against players who do not micromanage much, or all would be pressed into doing this. The alternative of improving most automatisms to the point that a micromanager can't do much better can be safely dismissed. I do not think it is feasible with the scale of the game and just one programmer working on it.

In my experience the fun of playing this game is inversely proportional to the time I spend in dirty little details like the scenario described above. At the same time I just cannot let all those little (and big! talk about taxation) opportunities of doing something better pass by. The result is just a game without challenge that is only somewhat fun. I envy people like AntiScamp...

I play completely manually as automatic is unbearably frustrating to watch. That said, I also agree we can't expect miracles from a small team on such a complex game ... which is why I choose not to be critical. Looking forward note the call in another thread to go big and bold on Distant Worlds 2!

I understand people have different micro limits. My real point is that often there are ways to simplify while retaining the benefits. I do not mind manually ordering the constructors around as I've described. I don't mind manual ship design as I keep the number of designs limited (e.g. only one military ship which is always of the largest size) and have save files for key research milestones in the early game. I don't mind manually ordering fleets and ships around because I like blowing things up etc.

The micro of a large fleet of explorers using "Move To" rather than "Explore" can dwarf everything else ... yet it enables getting Way of the Ancients, Super Weapons, Super Luxuries (etc) many years earlier. I just can't do this anymore!

About the Trade, no player realy understand how cargo distribution and trade works at DW, but we all know we would do it better if we could do it manualy ! :-) But maybe the Galactic Silicon sources are far away from your empire, so no AI empire want send a freighter.

Since you know you need Silicon (and some other rare resources) very soon, you should order some construction ship manualy to build a mining base there soon you discover a source.

Actually I'm not sure I could do it better manually. Unlike WiTP:AE, there really are a lot of resources that are needed for colony growth. And getting resource X from point A to points B-W is better handled by the AI in my judgment.

I think the one thing that would help more is if the cargo ships didn't transport minute amounts of resource. 25 here and 110 there is very inefficient. Would rather haul 3k of something to a planet that has a shortage, and that leaves it a bit of a backstock so it doesn't run out again anytime soon.

Now when it comes to mines, I do handle that manually, and having 12+ construction ships is advisable.

re: preceding post ^ I think the one thing that would help more is if the cargo ships didn't transport minute amounts of resource. 25 here and 110 there is very inefficient. Would rather haul 3k of something to a planet that has a shortage, and that leaves it a bit of a backstock so it doesn't run out again anytime soon.

Thinking out loud: If transports only carry 'minute' amounts, then it makes no sense to build freighters with large cargo capacities. Perhaps designing cargo haulers all with tiny cargo holds and fast loading, turning, and speed might help. Expensive, but perhaps not as expensive as many [more cargo like] haulers running with almost no cargo? Anyone tried this?

Thinking out loud: If transports only carry 'minute' amounts, then it makes no sense to build freighters with large cargo capacities. Perhaps designing cargo haulers all with tiny cargo holds and fast loading, turning, and speed might help. Expensive, but perhaps not as expensive as many [more cargo like] haulers running with almost no cargo? Anyone tried this?

I manually design the private fleet (due to the lack of insight in the new design templates that you can not specify which type of fuel to use in a design), they all have ten engines, 5 thrusters and 5 (S), 10 (M) and 15 (L) cargo holds on the freighters. I also have 12 24 and 36 docking bays on the spaceports, can not say why due to the NDA for Shadows, but those extra docking bays do help to get cargo through, yet again it is all down to knowing the tech tree and how to juggle it to get the best out with the minimum in so that you serve both the state and private fleet with the best equipment and still have room for defense and attack tech.

@darkspire I play almost totally on manual, and have from the beginning of the franchise. I'm retired, so quick hand-eye, mouse click-fests don't work for me - turn based are wonderful. DW is a wonderful mix, and shadows a welcome add on (although I hate playing a pirate so i don't). With DW I can pause and implement orders at will. Love it. I understand your design approach and actually use something very similar. The one difference is that I take small freight / transports and give them faster speed and much greater range. Question: Have you found your 15 cargo holds on a large freighter (with 10 engines and 5 thrusters) run mostly almost full, or are they mostly empty?

Think you may need to look at this from the programmers point of view to get an answer, so first off yes, I have noticed it and it has been reported regarding the merchants running with small amounts. Back to a possible explanation for this somewhat odd behavior, lets say you have 50 colonies, 10 of those colonies have shortages of a resource, so the AI adds up the total amount and then divides that by the amount of available freighters and thus if you have 10 freighters with a shortage of 50 then they would be carrying an amount of 5 each, if the amount for each freighter goes over a certain amount then the next size of freighter would be used, for example, if a small freighter has a limit of 5, medium 10 and large 15 then if a shortage for 10 freighters to move is 80 then that would equal 8 and would be to big for a small so a medium would be used instead, not saying this is the case but from what I have seen with the shortage amounts in the Expansion Planner and then had a look at the amounts freighters are carrying it does make a kind of sense, it has to be a similar kind of logic used for the movement and distribution of resources as DW has a hell of a lot of computations going on under the hood and this sort of routine is a general one and would not require each and every freighter to be assigned an amount thus slowing down the processing. You should also take into account that when you enter the Expansion Planner to check the cargo holds the game pauses, they are not updated and sometimes the amounts on there are not showing the correct amounts.

I have noticed it and it has been reported regarding the merchants running with small amounts.

Do you think this is a new issue ? No i allready reported that 2 years ago. The Devs made a patch that the freighter wait a bit longer for cargo. But that didn't realy solve the problem. DW just need a complete overhaul design at the Cargo distribution. At moment it looks like DW got a "just in time" cargo managment, that mean a colony/base need a resource to finish a project it order the amount at the next colony/base along their traderoute (the reserved amounts with your Empire sign at the cargo). There must be a distribution for resources with large stocks too, but i didn't notice that much.

But DW isn't an economic game, that is part of the AI. The Player got problems with that, and the AI empire's got the same problems. But the player can live with the problem much better if he know about it, then the AI empire who just act like his script say. Maybe at the next expansion or DW2, they add a new game mode Play as Tycoon and control the whole Private sector for an AI controled Empire.

A poster above suggested only building one spaceport per system. So, if you don't build a second spaceport at the secondary colony (colonized planet/moon) in a system, how do you get the resources of that colony into play? Mining stations dissapear when the colony is established...

Colonies mine at their own, thats why mining station disappear, or you would get double resource output. And ship allways can land/dock on a colony, a colony just got 1 or 2 docking bays and this would cause a traffic jam if that colony got much trade traffic.

But you allways should build a spaceport at any colony just to have the medical and recreation bonus, that increase the happyniss. Happy people grow faster or you can raise the tax more.

I have 20 Chromium sources in operation. I have 620K Chromium stockpiled. I have ~300 Freighters in operation, all modified to the same 10 Bay design.

AND! Not even a single unit of Chromium in transit after 6 game months of bases/worlds all screaming for Chromium. And the Advisers want to run smuggling missions for Chromium?!? What the bloody hell are the Freighters and Stockpile for if the Private Sector and Advisers are too damn stupid to use them? Grrrrr....

ORIGINAL: sbach2o I am reading that like you have found a way to make a constructor pick its construction materials from a specific spaceport? If that is true, I am stumped. In my experience, all constructors will always pick up their materials from the spaceport closest to the construction site. Here's one instance of the game trying to optimize for trip distance where it is absolutely useless.

There is no need for fake-orders and dirty tricks. For simplicity let's say it's early game. I move Constructors to my homeworld. Then I command them to build a structure and they take resources from the homeworld. When finished building I move them back to my homeworld.

Ermmm... I am almost sure it doesn't work this way. Like I am hinting at in my original post, I have seen a constructor I had manually moved to my homeworld going to the (hopelessly understocked) spaceport closest to the construction site to pick up materials. Note, I only let things like this happen once, so I didn't try again. Except, I didn't know about the merits of fake orders for a long time, so I could (less attentively) watch my constructors failing over and over.

Should I try again? Or is there a trick about how close a constructor must be to a given planet for it to choose that for materials?

Colonies mine at their own, thats why mining station disappear, or you would get double resource output. And ship allways can land/dock on a colony, a colony just got 1 or 2 docking bays and this would cause a traffic jam if that colony got much trade traffic.

Colonies have a whole lot of docking bays these days (20?) so traffic jams are not a problem in these situations. The benefit of the recreation and medical modules remain.

ORIGINAL: sbach2o I am reading that like you have found a way to make a constructor pick its construction materials from a specific spaceport? If that is true, I am stumped. In my experience, all constructors will always pick up their materials from the spaceport closest to the construction site. Here's one instance of the game trying to optimize for trip distance where it is absolutely useless.

There is no need for fake-orders and dirty tricks. For simplicity let's say it's early game. I move Constructors to my homeworld. Then I command them to build a structure and they take resources from the homeworld. When finished building I move them back to my homeworld.

Ermmm... I am almost sure it doesn't work this way. Like I am hinting at in my original post, I have seen a constructor I had manually moved to my homeworld going to the (hopelessly understocked) spaceport closest to the construction site to pick up materials. Note, I only let things like this happen once, so I didn't try again. Except, I didn't know about the merits of fake orders for a long time, so I could (less attentively) watch my constructors failing over and over.

Should I try again? Or is there a trick about how close a constructor must be to a given planet for it to choose that for materials?

Yes try again sback2o as I play every early/mid game this way and I can't recall seeing the behaviour you described. Make sure your constructors are set to manual control and note I only give me them a command to build when they arrive at the homeworld / key world.