David developed a device that eliminates (non-paranormal) audio as being the
case of EVP (electronic voice phenomena). Paul Browning took this device a step
further by making it more affordable and smaller for the average researcher.

As David explains, the device uses a two-channel portable mixer. A dynamic
microphone is put in one channel and a condenser mic in the other. Through this,
he explains that "we can determine that EVP is caused by something besides
audio. The fact that a condenser mic does not respond to EMF indirectly suggests
that EMF (electromagnetic waves) is the cause of the EVP."

Paul uses an incarnation that is very portable and can be carried on the person.
He has dubbed it the RVPR (Rountree Voice Phenomena Recorder) The original
prototype David built several years ago fits on a six foot table, and requires a
laptop and software to map out the EMF and the EVP and correlate them. Paul is
using a simpler less expensive version of the concept and is gathering valuable
data in the field that will allow for improving the device.

Both men are avid, technologically-based researchers. I wanted to gather them
(metaphorically speaking) to discuss their opinions about the current state of
paranormal research.

Deonna: Paranormal investigation today is increasingly defined by the role of
technology. Rountree's book is a wonderful addition to that discussion, and
Browning has augmented that by developing experimental equipment first used by
Rountree. But let us back up and really look at how to work with both the
metaphysical and the technological. Is it possible to combine the two? If so,
how?

David: I believe they are both intimately related. I mean how can we
study the effects of the physical, and not study and develop ways to measure the
metaphysical? The two go hand in hand. When we understand the consciousness, we
will gain a greater insight into the metaphysical.
But there are things we can do now. For instance, I have been working with
psychic and mediums in an attempt to measure any environmental changes that
occur when they do their thing. The initial data seems to indicate that there
are emerging low frequency EMF signals that coincide with them getting their
information. So yes, I feel they must be connected, and as such, both elements
must be the subject of study.

Paul: Although I rely more on the technical and the psychological aspects
of investigating, the metaphysical remains to be fully understood. My reasoning
for leaning towards the technology side is that I have no special abilities to
reach into and use to verify any kind of psychic impressions or feelings.
Instead, I took a new path to working in the paranormal that I haven't seen used
much: the psychological. With that aspect, the investigator begins looking for
answers on a level that doesn't have them trying to trap an animal. Instead,
they deal with the other side as with respect and with intelligence.

And before continuing, I feel that it is necessary to get a clarification on the
hardware I'm using. Originally developed by David, I'm simply using a scaled
back version that was more affordable. The hardware itself was referred to me
directly by David. I make no claim to be an owner of said device. However, I did
write a layman's guide to build, use and operate it.

Deonna: So many people consider EVP to be the strongest form of paranormal
evidence. This is mostly a reflection of current technology -- in the past, many
thought photography offered solid proof of ghosts because that particular
technology was most accessible at the time. How important are EVP and are there
other variables that may be just as necessary in understanding ghosts,
hauntings, spirits?

David: EVP is certainly in my opinion one of the keys to finding the
truth. It has certainly led me down a path of discovery. But we must not just
accept a voice on a recorder at face value. We have to eliminate the natural
sources for it before we can say its paranormal. This means you have to do a
little more work than talk into a microphone. You have to scan for RF (radio
frequency) interference, make sure you are not getting demodulated audio from a
radio source nearby, in other words, we have to actively debunk not just EVP,
but all of our evidence to eliminate false positives. If we don't, someone else
will, and that isn't fun. A lot of folks in the field make a lot of
extraordinary claims, but at close scrutiny, the claims collapse. As responsible
researchers, we need to insure our evidence is as strong as we can make it.
Debunking is a valid tool for doing this. Anyway, discovering the source for
EVP, has led me to discover other key elements of a paranormal event horizon.

Paul: Following the above paragraph closely, you'll find my own thoughts.
Having a voice is one thing, knowing where it came from is crucial. It is still
part of the process. The majority of the paranormal groups are happy to know
they have something and I feel that scrutiny isn't at a level that's sufficient
enough to hold them at their claims. With the RVPR, that I am still field
testing, there is an added layer that makes a claim hold more water. But...it
still doesn't show where the voice came from. That part is still, as David
said... the mystery.

Deonna: At this point, what do we know about ghosts and hauntings that we
didn't know before from 150 years of psychical research?

David: I hesitate to use the word "ghost" because we have yet to
scientifically define the word. But we are working on it. What we know is that
there are measurable changes in the environment that seem to be caused by a type
of conduit opening up. About 90% of the activity at a paranormal event horizon
isn't paranormal at all, but quantum effects created by what we believe is a
wormhole opening up. There are many data factors that have led us to this
initial conclusion, primarily because it is the only thing in science that makes
sense for it to be based on the data set collected. The actual paranormal event
itself, may also have an explanation in Quantum Mechanics, in that intelligent
energy may be projecting its image, or an image on the holographic boundary of
that wormhole, causing us to perceive an apparition. "Residual hauntings" may be
simply that we can see into the throat back in time to the actual event, and we
are witnessing the event at the time it occurs. This is because a wormhole can
transcend space and or time. Currently, my work in EVP has led me to my current
research into wormhole phenomena and its connection to a perceived paranormal
event.

Paul: I DO think that with technological advancement, answers are
eventual. How far that remains is still to be determined. But I think we all can
agree that over that time span, there have been major leaps in technology. Using
that as a model of where we could end up, the future could be closer than one
thinks. Could all this be the result of a wormhole effect? Possibly. Do I know?
Nope. Will a temporal linkage between two different time periods that create a
form of time differential ripple effect cause minor changes? Ya got me. But for
now, we're all taking baby steps. And as long as weÕre taking ANY steps...I'm
hopeful we'll gain momentum and continue forward.

Deonna: Where is actual research headed?

David: It depends on who you follow. Many are still beating the same
drums that have been beaten for twenty years and are going no place. Others are
becoming cutting edge. The use of data logging technology, Torsion field
detection circuits, UV light, extended spectrum cameras and EMF triangulation
devices are making discoveries left and right, and confirming them with each
other. There are a handful of researchers in this country and abroad who are
closing in on the answer. Instead of doing TV shows, they are doing the work.
That is where the story really is. The discoveries are fascinating, and of
course getting no publicity except in limited circles.

Paul: You're a hard man to follow, ya know that, in this conversation
anyway! Honestly, I think that some of the biggest mistakes are being made by
investigators today because they're content with doing things that they see on
television. They are not after the "what for" or the "why." It's all about quick
answers, quick claims, and "on to the next case!" But instead, the answers they
are looking for have yet to be found.

I left doing residential because I wanted MORE. I felt that it was a bit of a
disservice to the public to not know the exact answers of things. And what the
public is really doing is simply making a determination of whether the location
has activity or not. What that activity actually is continues to remain unknown
to them. To all of us. And that leaves it all in the hands of the researchers.

I'm very happy to have met very interesting and intelligent individuals who are
working on projects and testing things to try and get to the answers. And
although I may not be in the same league as David Rountree, or some of the other
people I'm keeping up with that are doing research, I feel I can continue to do
my part by field testing the hardware, and continuing to devise new ways to work
with these "people" (ghosts or whatever) and see if I can get more reactions and
interactions out of them along the way. And know that those answers don't come
from blinky lights, but rather from some form of data-logging hardware.

David: People like Paul are vital elements to the discovery process. Just
because I design a device, take it out, and make a finding, doesn't mean it is
true. It takes many people duplicating the work and finding similar findings to
make a compelling discovery and compelling fact. Paul is one of a handful of
researchers around the country who is doing this, and in the process, making his
own discoveries. Sharing our work, our data, and our techniques and protocols
makes this type of research possible.

Deonna: Thank you both for your time!

Deonna Kelli Sayed is Ghostvillage.com editor and the author of Paranormal
Obsession: America's Fascination with Ghosts, Hauntings, Spooks and Spirits and
(forthcoming) So You Want To Hunt Ghosts? (Llewellyn). She also drinks coffee
and writes some non-paranormal related stuff.