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This is Dave Young's Forum. Can you really bridge the gap between reality and training? Between traditional karate and real world encounters? Absolutely, we will address in this forum why this transition is necessary and critical for survival, and provide suggestions on how to do this correctly. So come in and feel welcomed, but leave your egos at the door!

Just wondering how people in general feel about this I found on the web

Can We Trust the Cops?

Are police officers allowed to lie to you? Yes the Supreme Court has ruled that police can sink to the lowest of low and be deceitful and lie while questioning you. Hey what do you expect, police have to deal with criminals everyday that lie and are deceitful.

Police officers are very good at lying, twisting words and they are trained to be manipulative. Don't try to out smart the officer, or try being a smooth talker, because you will loose! If you can keep your mouth shut, you might just come out ahead alot more then you expected

Police officers and other law enforcement agents are very skilled at getting information from people. Many people are afraid that if they refuse to cooperate, it will appear as if they have something to hide. Don't be fooled. The police are allowed to (and do) LIE to you.

The federal government made a law that says citizens can't lie to federal agents. They can lie to us, but we can't lie to them. Makes perfect since don't it? The best thing you can do is ask for a lawyer and keep your mouth shut. How can you be charged with something if you haven’t said anything?

Although police officers may seem nice and pretend to be on your side, they are likely to be intent on learning about the habits, opinions, and affiliations of people not suspected of wrongdoing, with the end goal of stopping political activity with which the government disagrees.

Don't try to answer the police officers questions, or try to "educate them" about your cause, it can be very dangerous!

You can never tell how a seemingly harmless bit of information that you give the police officer might be used and misconstrued to hurt you or someone else. And keep in mind that lying to a federal agent is a crime.

Officers may promise shorter sentences and other deals for statements or confessions. The police cannot legally make deals with people they arrest.

The only person who can make a deal that can be enforced is the prosecutor, and he should not talk with you without a lawyer present who represents you.

Teach your children that the cops are not always their friends, and the police officer must contact a parent for permission to ask your child any questions.

Remember that the police are trained to put you at ease and to get you to trust them. Their job is to find, arrest and help convict a suspect. And that suspect is you!

Remember that the officer is not trying to be your buddy and become a new friend, they are on a fishing expedition to find something against you!

They have nothing criminal on you, so there looking for anything while they have you pulled over. Also keep in mind that the entire conversation is being recorded and video taped by the police.

Remember to speak clearly and look at the video camera in the police car and say "AM I FREE TO GO?" and/or "I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS SEARCH!"

Lies that the Police use to get You to Talk...

There are a lot of ways the police will try to trick you into talking. Its always safest just to say the Magic Words: I am going to remain silent. I want a lawyer.

The following are common lines the police use when they’re trying to get you to talk:

"You will have to stay here and answer my questions" or "You're not leaving until I find out what I want."

"I have evidence on you. Tell me what I want to know or else." (They can fabricate fake evidence to convince you to tell them what they want to know.)

"You’re not a suspect. Were simply investigating here. Just help us understand what happened and then you can go."

"If you don’t answer my questions, I won’t have any choice but to take you to jail."

"If you don’t answer these questions, you’ll be charged with resisting arrest."

You don’t have to answer any of the police officers questions.

Simply say: I have nothing to say! I would like to speak to a lawyer. When the police officer says: Why you want a lawyer, you’re not under arrest. The you would say: Am I FREE to GO?

DON'T EVER TOUCH A POLICE OFFICER!

Never resist physically! Don't run from the police or resist, even if you believe you are innocent.

As bad cops are control freaks and will use even an accidental bumping up against you as an excuse to charge you with assault on a police officer and resisting arrest, as well as justification for the use of force.

Be careful and keep your hands in view at all times. Tell the police officer when you are going to reach into your pockets for your license, this is to avoid getting shot.

Avoid any sudden moves with your hands for the same reason and remain calm, as being agitated will cause some cops to arrest you for interfering or worse.

The police are allowed to pat down your clothing "for their protection" if you're being "detained", to look for weapons, and they're allowed to search you if you're being arrested.

Your car can be searched without a warrant so long as the officer has "probable cause". Which means "probable cause" could be anything their imagination thinks up.

To protect yourself, make it clear that you "don't consent to a search" and ask why they are searching you.

Remember the reason they give you. If they claim to have a warrant, ask to see it. Whether or not they have a warrant, you can protect your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS by making it clear that you do not consent to a search.

Remember they wouldn't ask you if they didn't need your permission!

Safe Things to do When You are Frisked by the Police..

The law allows police to frisk you. "Frisk" means the police can place their hands on your body and pat you down on top of your clothes if they have reason to believe you have a weapon.

If the police feel something that could be a weapon or that they recognize as drugs, the police can go into your pockets and search.

Even if the police are wrong, the law allows this pat down and search if the police have reasons to believe you have drugs or weapons. If the police stop you and want to frisk you follow these rules:

1. Do not resist this pat down.

2. Stay still. Stay calm. Stay patient.

3. Do not touch the officer in any way.

If the police arrest you...

If you are arrested, the police can search you and the area close by.

If you are in a building, "close by" usually means just the room you are in.

If an officer comes to your home with an arrest warrant, this might be one of those times not to take the cop up on an offer to go get your shoes.

The only reason he would offer is to get a chance to search your house! Remember go outside, and lock the door because you don't need shoes in jail!

If during a search or an arrest the police take anything from you, they must give you a receipt for every item seized, including your wallet and its contents, clothes, and any packages you were carrying when arrested.

Within a reasonable time after your arrest, or booking, you have the right to make a local phone call: to a lawyer, bail bondsman, a relative or any other person. The police may not listen to the call to the lawyer.

If you're on probation or parole, tell your P.O. you've been arrested, but nothing else.

If you are arrested and you cannot afford a lawyer, you have the right to a public defender. If you raise bail this right might be taken from you.

You may be released with or without bail following the booking. If not, you have the right to go into court and see a judge the next court day after your arrest.

Demand this RIGHT! When you appear before the judge, ask for an attorney. An attorney has a better chance at convincing a judge to let you out on a lower bail then you could.

Teach your children that the cops are not always their friends, and the police officer must contact a parent for permission to ask your child any questions.

This may be contrary to the feel good lessons we get from the 24 hour law & order/CSI marathons we have every day creating a mythology that the police can/should be trusted.

Simply say: I have nothing to say! I would like to speak to a lawyer.

Remember to speak clearly and look at the video camera in the police car and say "AM I FREE TO GO?" and/or "I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS SEARCH!"

And remember that saying things like am I free to go? i do not consent to a search and refusing to speak without a lawyer present will escalate the situation. The cops get real pissed off if they have to respect your rights and they seem to like to take it out on you.

Police work is hard work and the more of it you can do for them the less of it they have to do.

nothing said about testilying?

the police can and do lie to people every day and yet they are supposed to tell the truth up on the stand (in court testimony).....of course when they are lying all day on the street, i wonder how they kep their lies straight on the stand......

it is not easy imprisoning a higher number of people and a higher percentage of people than in any other country in the world....we have to work hard to lock up so many people......

the history of the criminal justice system is rife with abuse and yet most police shows portray a mythic police/prosecutor reality contrary to our history....how did we go from how we treated em miserably in the past to this mythic utopian police state we are in now.......things that make ya go hmmmmm..........

personally, i really enjoy seeing police officers, prosecutors and judges get the same royal treatment that plain old folks get dished out everyday.......not too long ago a cop in florida (I think) shot an off duty cop (the off cuty cop was all upset at how the officer had treated the off duty's GF or wife)....this week i think one of the top dui oficials in florida was arrested driving with a blood alcohol level of .34 ....the slap on the wrist they gave mike nifong (more than a little disapointing).....

Don’t forget your one phone call will likely not be allowed to a cell phone (nor will you be allowed to access your cell phone to retrieve the phone number you need)......

Here, it would be helpful if we could get some input from our counsel.

Sort of a laundry list for the average person to keep in his wallet, as to what to do, how to do it and when to do it, if you are arrested.

A 'can do' and a 'can't do list' besides keeping our mouths shut under the pressures of arrest and confinement and threats if not 'cooperating' _

And all this to keep in mind when we spout things about don't take any crap, don't let punks 'punk you out' etc. _

Do what is necessary only if you are able to convince down the line that you acted reasonably and that you attempted to retreat and evade any violent outcome in spite of 'verbal assault' _

If you cannot 'sell' what you did, and remember that witnesses will tell many different stories of what you did and why, then you will languish behind bars and be forced to mortgage your house to pay for your legal fees.

Then later, say hello` to a civil suit you will have no defense and indemnity coverage for, because you were to cheap and too stupid not to buy an umbrella policy.

Don't be a wise guy to cops, but learn your 'legal survival kata' and kumites.

my first instincts are to trust the police and i want to trust them (if we cannot trust them to protect us, then who?), but having been burned and treated as if we have few or no rights (or to be treated as scum for daring to suggest that we should have our rights respected), it can be disconcerting.....

Van - a 'laundry list' to keep in your wallet won't do you much good when you wallet is taken should along with your other personal items.

Make sure that you have the important telephone numbers committed to memory. Ideally, the key number to memorize is someone who has access to all of your other tel numbers so that they can make the calls. You don't want a call wasted because someone is unavailable. Also if the time of day of your 'interraction' with the police is not normal business hours, then you are going to be doing some time as a 'guest' of the police agency anyway.

Most of what has already been posted is good info. Do NOT talk, do NOT even acknowledge understanding your rights. " I Have nothing to say, Am I free to go, I will only talk to my attorney".

If arrested, do not discuss any matters of the situation with anyone else in custody. At your arraignment - the next court day at the latest, insist on an attorney - yours or a court appointed one, although one that you hire will be better in the long run - public defenders are notoriously overworked and underpaid. Do what you have to in order to hire a good defense attorney.

Do not resist, touch, raise your voice, etc to a police officer. Do not invite an officer into your home. Yes, if they have a warrant, then ask for it, read it, but do not resist. Although, you will have a thousand things going through your head, try to make note of inaccuracies of any warrant, dates, times, addresses, etc.

Hopefully all of the readers and posters here, will not be in a situation that requires these tactics but you never know.

In my former life as a criminal defense attorney, the people I was representing did usually need a laundry list - should have had them tatoo it on their arms! LOL

I have never been arrested so , who should your first call be to? A bondsman? A lawyer? Family who will make calls for you ("Hi honey, apparently the "massage therapist" I saw was actually a hooker. I need to get bailed out of jail")?

Well that depends on the hour. If it were me and I wasnt an attorney I would want to make sure that I was able to reach mine/one. So perhaps, although uncomfortable though it may be, I would make sure that the opportunity to make a call was not wasted and I would contact someone who could/would make all efforts to reach my chosen attorney asap. You dont know how many, if any, calls you would be allowed to make.

Do NOT talk; do NOT even acknowledge understanding your rights. “I Have nothing to say, Am I free to go, I will only talk to my attorney".

Interesting. Why would you not even acknowledge understanding your rights? Is it because it will put you in a ‘talking mode’?

If you tell the police the phone number of your lawyer is in your wallet, why would they not allow you to retrieve it?
Wouldn’t this go against the police at trial? It seems to me that if you are ‘mirandized’ then the police prevents you from contacting your lawyer by making phone calls to get to one…that would be an inconsistent with the law?

What really defines a phone call? If you call your home and the line is busy, have you just blown your one phone call? Or are you permitted to keep trying until you make contact? I take it even your cell phone will be taken away from you.

From the web I see this[quote]You have a right to remain silent. Say only, "I want to talk to a lawyer." If the police continue to question you, do not answer. Also, do not speak on a video tape or to a district attorney about anything.

Remember, it's in the police officers' best interest to get you to incriminate yourself. If you're arrested with somebody else, don't talk with them about the incident in the back of the police car even when the police are not in the car; many police cars now secretly make video or audio recordings of such conversations.

You have a right to make one phone call to your family, lawyer, or organization (remember the phone you use may be tapped).

>> Am I really restricted to one phone call once I am in jail?

A: The one phone call is another one of the urban myths. You may or may not be permitted to use the phone. Generally, out of courtesy they will allow you to make one phone call. Often there are phones in the jail and people can make as many phone calls as they want as long as there is somebody to accept collect charges.

~~

This seems more and more to make the case, as suggested by many, to ask the police to be taken to a hospital for examination for your anxiety attack…heart palpitations…feelings of nausea…inability to breathe ….small stuff that is important enough to get you to a hospital without having to resort to lies about your physical condition.

You will probably experience all of that or more from the huge adrenaline dump and after effects, resulting from your confrontation and police intervention.

The question here, John, is ….if you are taken to the hospital and into the emergency room, is the police allowed to be there with you as well? I know they might be in the ambulance but you will refuse to talk and keep saying you will not make any statements until you speak to your lawyer, but do they have a right to remain in the ER alongside of you?

When you are in the ER…would you be permitted to use the phone by the hospital personnel?