I don't care about "lock and load". It's a metaphor. Just like Obama saying "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,". Obama is not going to literally bring a gun and any lunatic that does couldn't be tied to Obama unless it was intended as literal.

The point isn't that Sarah Palin should be directly tied to this, the point is that Sarah Palin should be called out for being irresponsible.

clearly, Ms. Palin herself sees the link because it's disappeared from her website and she's immediately made herself the real victim in this tragedy.

That, and the walking back of what the symbols were. In November, the symbols were crosshairs according to Palin's Tweet. This weekend, they were "surveyor's marks." Bullshit.

I'm not saying there is absolute causation here; the conservative talkers and politicians didn't pull the trigger. But, they didn't exactly discourage it either.

Bill O'Reilly and Dr. Tiller's murder anyone?

This extreme rhetoric needs to stop.

And, bullshit that it is equal on both sides, left and right. It's not, and people should stop fooling themselves. Yes, there are extreme statements by both sides, but the far right has made a policy of violent talk to stir up emotions in their supporters.

At least renounce Glenn Beck FFS. He may be charged with a crime soon if he continues the way he has.

I think continuing to peg the national discussion about our political climate on this particular incident is a bad idea. John Hinckley shot Ronald Reagan because he believed assassinating the President would make Jodie Foster fall in love with him; for all we know, Loughner's motivations could've been just as batshit insane. Speculating about the effects of the environment on mentally ill people is unwise because they don't perceive that environment in predictable ways to begin with. I think there's been more than enough eruptions of resentment and recriminations over this already to deter politicians from publically invoking violent imagery against opponents for the foreseeable future. Pundits, granted, probably not, since at the end of the day they're 'just entertainers' and in our society, that confers a pass for most anything.

sarah palin is an idiotic, dipshit fucknut whom should leave the political landscape as fast as humanly possible. that said? this fucked up kid had issues with giffords dating back long, long before palin ever put crosshairs on her. his sick fixation and problems with giffords began in 2007, before most americans even knew who sarah palin was. palin's use of crosshairs on districts she wanted "targeted" was a classless, sick move. it's also a terrible coincidence, in this matter.

to see how quickly the media and politicians alike have manipulated this awful tragedy by a sick, deranged individual to fall in line with their own political ideology is absolutely disgusting.

I like it when you bring in the voice of reason. Just want to say that .

That and I don't know how many more situations like this have to happen before people finally start actually paying attention to these warning signs they keep beating into our heads about looking out for. If your gut is telling you something is off, chances are good it's probably right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule

A few months ago my friend Chuckie was killed in Afghanistan, and the WBC was planning to come protest his funeral. We were worried because there was a lot of talk about "beating the living shit outta them" if they showed up. Luckily the WBC pussied out and didn't show.

Back on the issue at hand however, I find it sick how politicized this has already become, even here on FYM. This morning I heard commentators on the news blaming Sarah Palin for this, and right now I hear Rush Limbagh on the radio my grandma listens to accusing Obama of using this to reconnect with the American people.

What the fuck. I just wish it would all stop.

So do I . And I'm sorry about the loss of your friend. I'm glad you didn't have to deal with those psychos from WBC and were able to lay him to rest peacefully.

I also agree with you about the background check stuff. I personally would love it if I woke up tomorrow and found out guns never existed ever again. But I know that will never happen, and banning something tends to not solve the problem, it just drives it underground and makes it worse.

But there is absolutely no doubt that we do need to change the way we sell guns, and to whom we sell guns, and limit how many types of guns your average American who isn't part of law enforcement or the military is allowed to have. Most of you aren't going to find yourselves in a Bruce Willis action flick, so you don't need anything beyond a simple handgun and/or a hunting rifle, for crying out loud.

As for the other debate going on here, I think the big difference in today's climate is this: When the extreme left comes out and starts their rantings, most people of all stripes laugh and shrug them off, and generally only people who have the mindset of those on the extreme left tend to take them seriously. But the extreme right actually get traction and some sort of support, not just from fellow extreme right-wingers, but from independents. People actually hold them up as examples of "real Americans" who "truly understand" what your average American is going through. They actually get platforms in the political arena, get to be candidates for elections. Their opinions are given more credence, more legitimacy, and they're in positions of power and are able to promote their fear rhetoric a lot more easily. It's not happening as much on the left.

That being said, I tend to agree with a lot of those of you who lean more to the left on this board on a regular basis, you know that. But come on, let's be honest, the left has been just as guilty of nasty rhetoric, and have committed violent acts throughout history, too. Obama's called Hitler by the right, well, Bush was called Hitler by the left. Many "jokes" are made about killing Obama, many "jokes" were made about Bush dying, too. "Pro-lifers" blow up abortion clinics, "anti-war" activists destroyed military recruiting stations. Both sides were stupid and wrong for saying and doing such things. Remember the big old debate we had a number of years ago about the Secret Service investigating that piece of artwork involving a trigger to Bush's head? I was on the side of the artist there, but some saw that as a threat, and who knows, it very well could've been. Or at least a call to arms. Yes, the conservative side tends to be more pro-gun, but liberals can be hypocritical on that stance, or they may be liberal on everything else...except guns. Or something like that.

Both sides need to acknowledge that their rhetoric and actions contribute in some small way to the toxic situation we find ourselves in. Whether it's violent calls to shoot people, or simply calling somebody a fascist because their opinion dares to differ from yours on an issue, or whatever, let's just say everyone's guilty of being rude and obnoxious at some point (because we all are) and all agree to grow the hell up.

ETA: Just caught yolland's post in full there, you make an excellent point, too.

you know, my Dad and I met a man who worked at a car museum in Sacramento. and he was genuinely shocked that we don't have guns. "what do you do when someone breaks into your house?" he said. we replied that has never happened. he then said "we get a lot of blacks and hispanics breaking in". i wanted to ask, "what happens if they break in and you have a gun? you can't shoot them can you? you'll get done for murder. or something." but i didn't ask. i didn't want to further the discussion.

"what happens if they break in and you have a gun? you can't shoot them can you? you'll get done for murder. or something." but i didn't ask. i didn't want to further the discussion.

I live in CA and own several guns, none of them are loaded.

I live by the beach and have had 2 or 3 young people try and come in my house late at night. Most of the time they were drunk and lost. Or they may have been pretending to try and rob me? Anyways I would not shoot them for personal property.

I do believe, in many parts of the country, people would not be charged if they killed someone that was breaking in to their home. To me it is a question of personal morals and values.

Whatever, Irvine. I can and will acknowledge that the Palin image was uncalled for. Clearly you're unwilling to do the same when it comes to the examples I've cited. That's fine, and frankly, not surprising. How many do you want? Mark Penn saying that Obama needs another OK bombing? The environmental terrorist at the Discovery Channel building last year? Montel Williams telling Michelle Bachmann to kill herself? Randi Rhodes calling for violence against President Bush on a regular basis? John Kerry saying he could go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and kill Bush? Craig Kilborn showing a photo of Bush with "Snipers Wanted" beneath it? Chris Matthews fantasizing about someone shooting Rush Limbaugh? Nobel winner Betty Williams saying she'd love to kill President Bush? The countless images of a dead President Bush at various kook rallies? (Death Threats Against Bush at Protests Ignored for Years) What about the man that shot his family over the reckless global warming rhetoric? Do you think the alarmist left deserves blame for that?

All it takes is one crazy person to hear and act on any of this stuff. Is all this merely "charged" and passionate to you? To deny that there is violent rhetoric coming from prominent members of the Democratic Party and liberal persuasion in the United States (which is truly what it sounds like you are doing) is shameful and sick.

If any good can come of this, it's that hopefully we can all grow up. Some probably will, and some will merely tell other people to but not do it themselves. I'm in the former camp. I really hope Sarah Palin is, too. Where are you?

I'm really surprised you didn't mention the "mockumentary" about the assasination of Bush. That would have been the most obvious example.

At any rate, I don't know how you could look at the video clip where Giffords herself talks about inflammatory rhetoric after her office was vandalized and not acknowledge that the hyperbolic language has gotten out of hand.

I would hope this incident would bring us together as a nation, not further tear us apart. Alas, that does not appear to be happening.