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The Men’s RoundTable: Retrospect for Life

One of the things you hear a lot when people give you advice about relationships is to communicate.

It seems so simple — just be clear about the things you want and the things you won’t stand for. Maybe the people you attempt to get involved with won’t always see eye to eye with your opinions or ideas, but at least they’ll know where you’re coming from.

Sadly even though everyone seems to know about this idea — it’s amazing to see just how many people don’t put it into practice.

But what happens when you are straight up, when you actually do tell someone the truth about your needs and desires and they don’t want to listen? What if they had a different opinion or value — and just figured they could eventually find a way change your mind to what they wanted?

On the surface it seems kinda selfish, especially if the opinion in questions is something insignificant or dumb like a favorite kind of music or a love or reality TV shows — but what happens when somebody decides that what THEY want is something much, much more precious and important?

Where do you draw the line?

Dear RoundTable,

So I was listening to my favorite morning show, and they have a segment called “The Decision” where they either help or ruin someone’s life (LOL). This morning was different because it was a “where are they now” edition.

Previously, this chick Vanessa was with her man Gary for 8 years and was on birth control. Throughout the 8 years, her boyfriend explicitly stated that he NEVER wanted to have kids. She took it upon herself to stop taking her birth control pills and then brought him to the radio station to tell him she was 3 months pregnant (!?) in hopes that he would change his mind.

Surprise, he was all like “Ummm…I told you I don’t want kids ever. Get an abortion.”
Surprise, surprise — Ol’ girl was all kinds of butt hurt about it.

FAST FORWARD TO THIS MORNING: The same girl is back on the radio show – she went ahead and had the baby (a girl). Vanessa’s relationship Gary broke up when she was 5 months pregnant and she really hadn’t spoken to him since then. When the DJs called Gary, he was pretty much like “I don’t have a kid…that’s not my baby…I told you from the door I didn’t want kids and it’s not my problem”.

So here’s my question: when a man explicitly states that he doesn’t want to have kids, should they still have to pay child support/be a father to this kid that they kept saying throughout the course of the relationship they never wanted?

Not exactly the easiest question to answer, but I’m curious to hear what you think
– Tuned in

We put this question to the OHN men’s roundtable and opened the floor to discussion. But it was such a fascinating argument that the ladies got in on it to. Here are some of the highlights:

I can be sad for his situation, but the fact of the matter is that it’s his baby. I don’t care how much you deny how or mad you are, you nutted in her — which makes it your responsibility.. yeah that hoe is evil but there it is.

He’s got a responsibility and an obligation to participate and care for that child.

But this lady has got to realize that because of the way she went about this — he’ll never be the father she was hoping he’d be.

That’s the true tragedy here.

Hold up — yeah his trust got violated in a real bad way but what did he think was going to happen when people have sex? Dude got foiled by basic biology.

She’s a foul, lying and desperate woman, but regardless of any of that the little girl is still his child.

Their relationship may be over and he wont be the father that she expects but he needs to be a man and step up. Be a father, even though they both know he didn’t want to be. He need to start paying that child support cause I can tell she the type to take his ass to court..

She’s gonna have to live with what she did for the rest of her life.

It doesn’t make any sense to me when chicks change the rules to the game without even telling a man — but that’s an issue for another time. He “should” do right by the child since the baby is here and maybe one day he’ll come around. I expect nothing but some child support being given after a court order because ain’t no judge even trying to hear that a man got “trapped.”

What kind of father could he possibly be when he doesn’t want to be one? Why subject her to that kind of resentment? What kind of treatment would she receive? Some people just know their limitations and he expressed his; she violated that.

Women who have children and don’t want to be mothers have all kinds of options to absolve themselves from the responsibility. Why shouldn’t men?

It’s hard to believe she’s going to be any kind of super-mom, either.

I don’t think he should be responsible for anything. Morally, he probably should be — but even then he made his point VERY clear. Not wearing a condom doesn’t mean that he is in any way responsible for HER choice to stop taking her pills and get pregnant. And even if she had gotten pregnant on the pill, he was going to help (possibly) with the abortion. She trapped him, plain and simple.

I think she needs to sign over her right to child support. It would be hard to prove in cases like this, but he shouldn’t be held court-liable for a child he plainly said he didn’t want. Seriously — Why this scalawag thought she could change a man by entrapment is beyond me. Of course, I also think it’s a little dumb to rawdog a woman if she still has an inkling for children and you don’t – but still, this is foul.

This drives me nuts — why don’t some women believe a man when we say exactly what we want (or don’t want)?

Are you really going to be so arrogant that you will try & trap a man into something because you THINK it’s what’s best for him? Don’t they know there is nothing we hate more? It’s one thing if you’re helping me achieve something I’ve expressed an interest/desire in, but things like this NEVER end well…

Since it’s a law on the books that states it’s a woman’s right to do whatever she chooses with her body thus protecting her to make whatever choice she chooses — I believe there needs to be another law instituted to protect a man’s choice not to have a child. Putting the brunt of the responsibility back on the person it truly belongs in preventing pregnancy (the woman) is what would be a fair compromise. Considering after she is pregnant, she is the only one that has the power to say what happens.

Since when is contraception ENTIRELY the woman’s responsibility? I see where she stopped taking her pills (shady on her part), but where are his condoms? Where is his vasectomy? Where are the back shots that could be wiped off? He can say that the baby isn’t his responsibility all he wants. He can also say that he’s the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man all he wants. Saying something don’t make it so. DNA proves that he is 100% responsible for that child, whether he decides to own it or not.

Nah, that’s bullshit. If I’m with MY WOMAN, and she says “don’t sweat it. I’m on the pill,” I’m not gonna sweat it. If I’m in a relationship with this woman, this is supposed to be someone I can trust. Yeah, the pill isn’t 100%. Nothing but abstinence is. But if she INTENTIONALLY DECEIVES me and stops taking the pill, that’s a whole other matter. That’s the same as if I was wearing a condom and slipping it off without her knowing. Nobody said contraception has to be entirely her responsibility UNTIL she volunteers for that responsibility.

Put it like this — if she says, “I’m going to pay the electric bill,” and then the lights get turned off, who’s fault is that? In this scenario it’s HER responsibility. That doesn’t mean the electric bill is 100% the woman’s responsibility. But when you step up and CHOOSE to take responsibility and claim that you have it handled …well, bitch, you better do what you gotta do to get these lights back on.

Here’s where you and I disagree. She didn’t put a gun to his head. He put it there all by his damn self. Thus, he can’t be surprised when a dang baby happens, even if that’s not what he ideally wants.

I agree that the pill is not perfect protection. The odds are what they are, and even Vegas occasionally pays winners, so the best way to avoid catching the magic bullet is to not to take the shot.

This wasn’t an accident, but a coldly calculated trap. She deliberately tried to enforce her will on him by becoming pregnant. If HE had deliberately or forcibly impregnated HER, would you say, ‘she should have gotten her tubes tied?’ If we’re in a committed relationship, shouldn’t I be able to trust YOU without permanently altering MY body????

This is why Imma start putting my relationship expectation on file in a court of law. Get that shit notarized and everything. Iont have the time.

Just because you trust someone to do the right thing does NOT mean they will do it, nor will it absolve someone of their responsibility. Trusting another person does not absolve one of his own responsibility in any matter.

This wasn’t a 1-night-stand or a semi-regular booty call. This was a long-term relationship. He had stated his opinion; she willingly misled him. She thought she could “change her man” by confronting him with a fait accompli. No, girl! You tried to manipulated your man and screwed your child’s life. If you wanted a child that badly, you could have a.) left and found a man who felt the same as you do, or b.) taken a conscious decision to be a single mother and gone for an anonymous donor. If you don’t want something to result from something, don’t do it. Take protective measures against it. We all know the birds and the bees. He should have gotten a vasectomy She cant take all the responsibility for his ejaculation.

Let’s make it a completely different situation. What if it was a one night stand? And instead of a baby, let’s say she gave him HIV. Now, if she didn’t know she had it, then he’d just have to live with the fact that he caught a bad one. But if she KNEW she had it and went raw, INTENTIONALLY exposing him — she could go to jail over that. And in that situation he was even MORE obligated to wrap his shit up. This wasn’t chance. This was her intention, and she accomplished it through deception. That’s pretty much the DEFINITION of sabotage.

My problem with this scenario is the same problem I have with the original situation: at the point the man puts his jibby in, he becomes responsible for whatever happens afterward. Whether it’s AIDS or whether it’s a baby, I don’t care if the woman involved is the dictionary’s definition of a Decepticon, it is impossible for a man to remain free of any responsibility where sexual intercourse is involved. That includes any penalties (i.e. disease, babies, broken relationships) just as much as he is entitled to whatever benefits (sex, sex, sex, internal orgasms from sex, more sex, etc.) are included.

Dude KNEW she wanted kids. She TOLD him she wanted kids. Instead of cutting her out of his life, he went ahead and did The One Thing Guaranteed To Result In Kids, hoping that his declaration of his feelings would cancel out her most basic desire!? To me, not only is he responsible, but he’s a gat dam hypocrite as well. “Here, I’mma get what I want, but you cain’t get what you want. Oh, and I’ll be tempting you with what you want Every. Time. We. Fugg. Don’t trip…cuz it won’t be my fault if ya do.”

Really? Because the way I see it she trapped his ass. He should’ve been hyper-sensitive as soon there was a disturbance in the force. Seriously, if she was sly enough to do everything in her power to get pregnant — then that same amount of dedication can be used to raise it on her own. I don’t think that he should pay for anything — he’s a sperm donor at this point.

I don’t know — to say he should have known better and he chanced it is both unfair and inaccurate. I have a 50% chance of getting f*cked up every time i drive a car…. I do it anyway. The way I see it, she made the decision to have a child. She went against his wishes. She took it upon herself to trick him. Her body, her choice right? That also means HER responsibility. he made his decision clear from the get.. she intentionally went against it? I don’t like the idea of any man not taking care of a child — but she was hella wrong on this one.

Unfortunately, he will have to take care of that child whether he wants to or not. If she gets the courts involved and a paternity test proves it’s his, he’s just shawt. He clearly said he did not want kids. She made the decision, so he shouldn’t have to take care of a baby he didn’t want. And she is all kinds of heffas for this little trick here. If you are with a man who has no kids and wants no kids, what makes you think popping up pregnant will magically change his mind? Chicks like this get on my nerves.

I hope he gets a good lawyer and give up his rights. She deserves nothing from him for this. Sorry, but she was dead ass wrong. This is no different than the other ways women (and men) have tried to trap a person with a baby they didn’t want.

She can’t force her dream/wishes on others. If she pushes the issue, he should be able to press criminal charges against her, IMO. This is a violation and the ONLY innocent in this case is the child. She is a bitch for this and what she has done to this child.

I understand what you’re saying here — but where were his condoms? Don’t we always say that we should be responsible for our own protection, too? I’m fully aware of what she did was wrong. dead wrong. Eight years is a long time to be invested in someone and that was a HUGE violation of trust, but still — as long as the laws are what they are now in this country, he has some responsibility in this. It sucks given the situation, — but until that changes, he going to be short a few hundred until baby grows up.

Him having to pay child support would be a travesty of justice. And if she found herself a victim of murder and on the Discovery I.D. channel as a special, she has no one but herself to blame. My gosh, how is that child going to feel once she learns the truth? What if she goes looking for her “dad” and his family, only to be told she isn’t and wasn’t wanted? How could someone do that?!

You don’t EVER play with someone’s life like that. Especially a child’s. If she wanted a child that badly she should have left. PERIOD. …and found a man that wanted kids. I feel really awful for the baby girl though. Her mother’s a trifling sneaky trick…and her father wants nothing to do with her. Poor baby.

She stole his gravy to make a baby he didn’t want after he EXPLICITLY told her he didn’t want it. My opinion is that he shouldn’t have to be responsible. Now, I do believe that AS A MAN, he should realize that there’s a human life involved here, and that regardless of the circumstances the child was conceived under, he should do everything in his power to make sure that child has every advantage in life. That’s what he SHOULD do. That would be the right thing to do as far as the child is concerned. But I don’t think he should be forced to.

All I have to say is that if I’m EIGHT YEARS IN on a relationship, and I still can’t trust you enough to go without a condom, we do NOT need to be in a relationship. PERIOD.

Hex is about as wrong as two left feet and there is nothing right about him. Every time we yell at Hex, his rebuttal is always that we are doing so simply because he is Black....yeah..think about that.