There's also a big difference between 8 bosses for 10 months and 16 bosses for 5 months (2x bosses in 1/2 time), making this too fast. I don't care either way, but I can understand both sides of the argument.

Your baseline reference (8 bosses for 10 months) is exactly what Blizz is trying to avoid. That was such little content out for way too long.

I cannot understand any arguement that prevents release of new content. If you are not good enough to clear the content in the alotted time, then you need to either step up your game, or get past the fact that you are not a super duper awesome player.

And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on previous tier content when the new tier is released. If you really are competitive, then you have cleared the necessary content. If you are prentending to be competitive (when you really aren't), then you need to get over yourself.

We got Ambershaper last week after only 14 pulls (a bit of luck helped) and Shekzeer on 10% before enrage on sunday. We decided to extend raid this week and try kill her on wednesday, since thursday is 14th and..yeah. Hopefully we'll get protectors hc too before 5.2 hits, but we're more than 25 raiders and we will try to get a 2nd kill of empress for all of us to get the fos, so that means no time to progress on tsulong.

And yeah, ppl seem to think killing one new hc boss per week is some sort of shame. Sure I'd like to skip some "farm" and go for more progress, but, for once, you need gear for progress, and second, you still need to clear 5 bosses on hc before progressing on will/empress. It takes time. 16 bosses in this tier have been a nightmare for me as a 25 man guild officer.

Because you know you can. Because there is nothing stopping you other than time. You didn't hit a brick wall, you just progressed at a normal pace. They never asked us to kill 16 bosses (gated too) in 22 weeks. T11 had 12(13 hc) bosses in 29 weeks and nobody complained it was too long. You dont need to be hardcore to clear 16 hc bosses. I dunno, maybe sha is a show stopper, but the rest aren't . After we've been content starved in cata with DS for 9 months (8 bosses), now this feels like a waste. On my server (Tarren Mill, decently populated on horde side), one guild got Sha hc down on 10 man, none on 25 man.

Another issue I have with the 5.2 release is the PTR. It's full of bugs, there's been no hc testing, there's been no 25 man testing at all. the 10 man normal encounters I've tried had plenty of issues and you want me to believe they will release the 25 man version blindly perfectly fine?

I seriously can't believe that after reading 24 pages of posts in their entirety, only this person and a handful of others had actual constructive feedback and did not become part of the nonsensical babbling that is the majority of this thread. The people "complaining" about 5.2 coming too early are mostly semi-hardcore raiders who are partially completed with 16/16 H T14. Not clearing normal mode in 5 months is clearly due to either lack of dedication, time or resources. Those who have already cleared 16/16H can be defined as hardcore guilds and total only about 1% of the population at this point.

The 5 months of time given to us so far to clear 16/16H simply isn't enough time for most people who raid 9-12 hours or less per week. There are no other reasons behind the lack of heroic progression for the majority of semi-hardcore guilds other than time itself.

I'm not saying this major raid content patch should be pushed back 2 or 3 months. Even though my 25m guild is currently only 8/16H due to recruitment issues, I'd still like to at least see a heroic boss or two in ToES before moving on to new raids. For those who are just starting on heroic ToES, another 4-5 weeks instead of 2 could make the difference in clearing this tier while it's still current and relevant.

To those of you saying "just finish 5.0/5.1 raids after 5.2 is released" there's probably a 95% chance you are not a heroic/progression raider so you wouldn't understand that getting further behind by spending your guild's time on older content instead of jumping right into what's current is simply not an option. At least not for any guild who wants to be able to continue recruiting for their roster in the future.

It's just so incredibly ironic that Blizz admitted and realized their mistake of making Ulduar obsolete by releasing ToC too soon and that they'd like to correct that mistake by not letting the content get wasted. That's exactly what they're doing if they release 5.2 at the end of this month.

To those of you saying "just finish 5.0/5.1 raids after 5.2 is released" there's probably a 95% chance you are not a heroic/progression raider so you wouldn't understand that getting further behind by spending your guild's time on older content instead of jumping right into what's current is simply not an option. At least not for any guild who wants to be able to continue recruiting for their roster in the future.

If you are half way through heroic progression, you will easily be able to jump right into the new raids if you really wanted to. There is no reason to "spend time on older content" if you truly want to start on new content.

If you run into recruiting issues because you were simply not good enough to complete all heroic bosses prior to the next patch - step it up next patch. Heroic bosses are supposed to be hard, and not cleared by 50% of the raiding playerbase prior to next patch release.

Nowadays people are pugging up to 6/6H MSV and HoF and there are still dedicated groups who can't clear normals? It probably means that they are not raiding seriously at all or have some braindead people in the group.

I'm not here to argue or anything I'm just stating my own experience and opinion that I myself don't judge ppl by their data or achievements or loot or whatever but I truely judge their skills and attitude when I play with them in live this mentality I use in real life as well not only video games.

I seriously can't believe that after reading 24 pages of posts in their entirety, only this person and a handful of others had actual constructive feedback and did not become part of the nonsensical babbling that is the majority of this thread. The people "complaining" about 5.2 coming too early are mostly semi-hardcore raiders who are partially completed with 16/16 H T14. Not clearing normal mode in 5 months is clearly due to either lack of dedication, time or resources. Those who have already cleared 16/16H can be defined as hardcore guilds and total only about 1% of the population at this point.

The 5 months of time given to us so far to clear 16/16H simply isn't enough time for most people who raid 9-12 hours or less per week. There are no other reasons behind the lack of heroic progression for the majority of semi-hardcore guilds other than time itself.

I'm not saying this major raid content patch should be pushed back 2 or 3 months. Even though my 25m guild is currently only 8/16H due to recruitment issues, I'd still like to at least see a heroic boss or two in ToES before moving on to new raids. For those who are just starting on heroic ToES, another 4-5 weeks instead of 2 could make the difference in clearing this tier while it's still current and relevant.

To those of you saying "just finish 5.0/5.1 raids after 5.2 is released" there's probably a 95% chance you are not a heroic/progression raider so you wouldn't understand that getting further behind by spending your guild's time on older content instead of jumping right into what's current is simply not an option. At least not for any guild who wants to be able to continue recruiting for their roster in the future.

It's just so incredibly ironic that Blizz admitted and realized their mistake of making Ulduar obsolete by releasing ToC too soon and that they'd like to correct that mistake by not letting the content get wasted. That's exactly what they're doing if they release 5.2 at the end of this month.

This is basicaly what Ive been trying to say, my guild is 10/16 heroic and were yet to find one boss in the tier that is a brickwall for us, were killing everything in 1 week (Will took us 2 weeks and Imperial Vizier almost did as well we killed him in the last hour of our raid for the week basicaly), so ppl can go around saying whatever they want about skill it simply isnt true, the same could be said for pretty much every other semi-hardcore raiding guild out there, ppl have skill and know what theyre doing but dont have tiem to raid too much, this scenario has never been an issue so far, these guilds all managed to clear the content, maybe theyd finish on world 3000 but seriously ppl who raid with a semi-hardcore mentality could care less for that, but theyd finish the content. This tier blizz is simply moving things too fast cause it freaking has 16 bosses, its not 8 or whatever is 16 thats a craptom of bosses.

Give us some time, the complaints about content not coming fast enought were because a 8 boss tier lasted for 9 months thats just insane, every hardcore, semi-hadcore and even casual guilds had time to clear the content and farm it to the bones, this time its diferent there are alot more bosses on the tier, and nobody is asking for another 9 months, were simply asking for 6 months and not 5. If you factor in the gatd release of the raids, the time it takes ppl to lv and gear and the hollidays you can knock out 1 full month or more so its even shorter.

I'm not here to argue or anything I'm just stating my own experience and opinion that I myself don't judge ppl by their data or achievements or loot or whatever but I truely judge their skills and attitude when I play with them in live this mentality I use in real life as well not only video games.

That's nice and everything - but wasn't what was being discussed, which was the number of raiders who have cleared everything on normal (only 30% of them according to the best numbers available.)

The thing is with about 10m ppl playing the game if just 0.1% of them QQ a little thats like 1000 ppl QQing and on forums that looks like ALOT when all the QQing comes at the same time. there will always be someone who is unhappy and that is fine. but sadly it is also always the group of unhappy ppl that are the loudest

And after 6 months, the guilds who are 10/16 heroic will have the same complaint, and asking for 7 months instead of 6.

Where do you draw the line? Do you think Blizz should simply release content at the schedule that your guild clears it? Because that seems to be your exact request.

We draw the line on a point where more tham just 400 guilds have killed heroic sha realy... 6 months is (probably) fast enought for those who eat the content in 2 weeks (aka world first racers) and slow enought for those who like clearing content but dont have much time to raid, many guilds in this category wont have killed the sha but most of them will have had a shot at least, as it stands now none of these guilds will even have a chance of trying the fight. Its also enought for mostly of the more casual guilds to clear normals or at least try normal sha and some even might try theyre feet on 1 or 2 heroics.

Its beyond fast to release it when only 1% of the entire raiding population has killed the last boss in the tier tough, for instance I have a bunch of friends who are on the world 500thsh guild on wowprogress and they havent killed the sha yet and think the patch might be too fast and they wont manage to, for crying out loud if the world 500 guild havent cleared the freaking content yet its definetly too fast to release more.

I think that only 30% of guilds having cleared normal is a bit telling, really. If you were aiming at keeping people happy in general, you'd aim for the average of around 50%.

For most raiders, T14 is far from finished - but only in two weeks it will be obsolete for them regardless.

Not saying that I disagree with you but do you not think that the lack guilds that have cleared the content is to do with the difficulty and a much easier alternative being available rather that the raids not being available long enough?

I'm not complaining but as has been posted already my worry is the time between patches after this one. As long as they keep pushing patches out at a good pace I'm good with it, just don't want to be stuck with Throne of Thunder for like 10 months. Of course we think its nice that new content is coming sooner....especially when its a big awaited raid. But on the other hand the number of guilds that are 16/16h is astronomically low right now....I don't think anyone would say that the current content has definitely reached the end of its lifespan. 2-3 more months would've be nice just so that the semi-hardcore guilds (mine included) can get to the finish line....all I'm saying.

Not saying that I disagree with you but do you not think that the lack guilds that have cleared the content is to do with the difficulty and a much easier alternative being available rather that the raids not being available long enough?

Oh absolutely you can see it that way legitimately.

T14 wasn't as bad as T11 for being overtuned, but it was getting there. Especially stone guards, a ludicrously complicated encounter for a first boss.

I'm not complaining but as has been posted already my worry is the time between patches after this one. As long as they keep pushing patches out at a good pace I'm good with it, just don't want to be stuck with Throne of Thunder for like 10 months. Of course we think its nice that new content is coming sooner....especially when its a big awaited raid. But on the other hand the number of guilds that are 16/16h is astronomically low right now....I don't think anyone would say that the current content has definitely reached the end of its lifespan. 2-3 more months would've be nice just so that the semi-hardcore guilds (mine included) can get to the finish line....all I'm saying.

lol. in 2-3 months you would have like milion people quiting becasue of boredom.
in 2-3 months current tier would last for 8 months, and thats the shit Blizzard tries to avoid this time.

T14 wasn't as bad as T11 for being overtuned, but it was getting there. Especially stone guards, a ludicrously complicated encounter for a first boss.

Isn't that the issue we should really be looking at rather than asking for Blizzard to delay the patch, currently we have a small number of gifted guilds that clear the content very quickly who are awaiting the next raid, we have a large number of people that only experience the content through LFR who are bored out their brains after clearly the content in a few weeks and then we have the guilds that are still working through the current raid on normal and heroic.

The way I see it is that is a lose/lose situation for everyone involved content needs to come faster to entertain those that do not raid and raids, especially on normal, need to be made easier so that those that want to experience the content can do so without holding back content for others.

lol. in 2-3 months you would have like milion people quiting becasue of boredom.
in 2-3 months current tier would last for 8 months, and thats the shit Blizzard tries to avoid this time.

Who are these millions of people who would quit and what would change in 2-3 months that hasn't already caused them to quit? If you're 16/16h with BiS or if you're absolutely done with LFR/dungeons and don't do any normal or heroic raids then you're part of groups that will never have enough content specific to them to keep them happy unless patches are released every few weeks. If you're in between these 2 groups and still working on the current raid content then yes it definitely has about 2-3 more months of life.