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Videos from a past US National Championship for you. I'll find and post more if you like.
300 yard water blind with a poison bird.
Handlers could move up to brush pile after dog got in the water. Not all whistles are heard on these videos but assume for certain that these dogs are not stopping unless they hear a whistle.
For this blind Judges expect dogs to jump over brush pile and then get on and off of the first two points of land but not touch the third point.

same water blind different dog. here the handler risks it by not sitting his dog on the point letting him get on and off himself. The risk is dog will be lost out of sight around the corner where a stop and cast would put the dog in the water and hopefully visible.http://classic.akc.org/videos/events...6/eighth_2.swf

More..............
Dig around these sites for test descriptions of marked retrieves blinds, drawing, videos and pics.

Thanks Breck.
Fantastic stuff,and much I have seen of the retrievers ability when trained.
I was thinking more along the lines of the Original post mate,regarding the process/training of that crisp smart sit?

“Here is my 'quandary'...Having a dog that has not been FF ,or CC, and NOT been trained in 'Positive only', or clicker
A theoretical 'snappy/crisp' SIT to stop whistle is achieved”
I know how I do it!...How would You?
....

I get a snappy/crisp sit before even starting CC. Don't get me wrong, it gets a lot snappier and crisper after CC. But, I can't get something with the e-collar, that I don't already have established.

It starts with teaching the pup what the command means. Once it knows the meaning of the command, it is preceded with the whistle, until the pup is responding to the whistle, in anticipation of the command. At that point, the command can be dropped, and essentially replaced with the whistle.

The first "enforcement" is simply holding up the pup's chest with one hand, while the other hand pushes down on the hips.
That transitions into pressure applied from a choke chain, and after that, from a heeling stick.

At that point, I can use a check cord and/or heeling stick to apply pressure for the enforcement of the sit command, or whistle.
I am also ready to start CC.

It's important to have an already established method of enforcement ready and available, to fall back on and stabilize the dog's response to a new form of pressure. Like the e-collar.

Thanks Breck.
Fantastic stuff,and much I have seen of the retrievers ability when trained.
I was thinking more along the lines of the Original post mate,regarding the process/training of that crisp smart sit?

Well, sans collar you can do a lot of stuff. One is use a pinch collar with 8" rope attached. Send dog on blind whilst you run and follow dog so you're closer when you stop him. Stop him and if you don't get a quick snappy sit run up to him grab rope tab and walk his arse back to the exact spot where he should have stopped. Pull up on pinch collar and command "sit", release, pull up again "sit". Real quick about 3 or 4 sit commands. When applying pinch collar correction pull straight up until front paws come off ground. OK now leave dog there in sit and walk back a ways or to original position if not too far. Turn and cast dog to blind and repeat as needed. Going out and getting in dogs face via old school tennis shoe training works fairly well.
You should get a snappy sit in short order.

Thanks for that 'copterdoc'
Have you ever had one of those that 'hover' their back end ? with this early process of pup's chest and rear end being pushed down?..If so 'How did you overcome it'?

For an older puppy doing formal basics you can do a heeling drill standing in one spot. Again use pinch collar. Work your dog through 360 degrees pivoting just a few degrees. Idea is dog must keep butt in contact with ground but OK to move front feet as you pivot. If butt comes off of ground correct with sit command and pinch collar correction. Use "here" to pivot clockwise if dog heels on left.
OK?

Thanks for that 'copterdoc'
Have you ever had one of those that 'hover' their back end ? with this early process of pup's chest and rear end being pushed down?..If so 'How did you overcome it'?

Polmaise,

I might suggest that you check out Mr. Lardy's materials (at the very least the Volume I articles) and also Mr. Hillmann's materials.

I just don't think there's a good way to explain in posts here how to train for a good, reliable, prompt, straight, crisp sit amidst the excitement of fresh shot birds and the trial atmosphere on a forum.

Regarding the hovering sit, Mr. Hillmann's material has some novel approach to instilling a very stable and solid sit at a very young age, while balancing it with "go" and excitement to retrieve.

*********************

When I was at the Gamefair in 2007, I met quite a few folks. The captain of "Team Scotland" was a man named Gordon. I can't recall his last name. He was famous for ordering "Bacardi.....with NO FRUIT!". Do you know him?

*********************

I had a great time discussing training theory for hours with the EU retriever folks. Many thought I was at first an electrocuter of robot dogs until we got into really discussing training theory and approach. I do believe that over the course of many hours of talking (and Guinness pints) we may have reached some common ground.

I felt at one point, I almost had Nigel Carville (Northern Ireland) ready to try the Lardy approach with a pup.

One thing that was a big eye opener to me was the temperatures in the Ireland and Scotland. Frankly, I don't know if some of the waterwork we do via the Lardy type program is going to be too easy to accomplish for much of the year over there. I'm afraid your water temps may not get warm enough to be suitable for the dogs except for maybe a brief time in the summer for steps like "Swimby".

I certainly have thought on the 2 times that I've been to retriever events, Scotland in 2000 and Ireland in 2007, that a Lardy-program-trained dog could do wonderful, wonderful things there in your events. I certainly believe you would have much more precision on your blinds.