The argument for signing bigger players is shown time and again when players that are smaller but talented leave the habs. You would think Gauthier would have learnt this in the Boston series as an example.

CobraHabs, I decided to start a new thread, ours was getting a little disjointed. Hope you’re still up, this might be fun. I’ll copy your post and reply to each point as needed.

You wrote:

“Un Canadien errant! Were on here to criticize the garbage moves that gainey has made with these midgets who can’t play with teams like the big bad bruins not to have a spelling b with each other! If you can honestly say that Gainey did the right move by getting that cinderella(Maxwell) than Lucic your on good stuff buddy! It’s your buddy Gainey’s job to see who’s a better player here not make moves based on trial and error! PatS is right i don’t think u see the big picture slick. It’s not just 5 years ago it’s right now aswell, what did Gainey’s front man do at trade deadline? NOTHING! He signed a want a be tough guy and blew more money on a goalie when we had a descent one already, etc.,etc. Put down your Bescherelle and Wake up!”

1) I assume you’re trying to say: We’re on here…

The apostrophe is important. Spelling is important. Grammar is important. Your post isn’t too bad, but I stand by what I said about ‘pat s’ and his posts. If I have to try to decipher what he wrote, what he was trying to say, sometimes in spite of what he actually wrote, it means he is not communicating effectively. The way you present your ideas is important: if they look shoddy they probably are. If he can’t be bothered to proofread his entries on this site, then I won’t be bothered to read them. There are tools like spellcheck and Google available to all if needed, and if someone chooses not to use them it’s a poor reflection on them. I hope they don’t pilot the planes I fly in or teach my nephews. If someone purposefully puts out a dog’s breakfast of mangled syntax and discontinuous ideas, it shows that they don’t respect their fellow readers.

You also make the statement that “we’re on here to criticize the garbage moves that gainey has made…” , and that’s not correct. I’m not here to do that. I’m a Canadiens fan who comes here to exchange ideas and information and be part of a community. A significant proportion of the posters here, of which I am a part, and which is sometimes dismissed as ‘the Kool-Aid drinker’, think the team is headed in the right direction.

2) Obviously in hindsight drafting Mr. Lucic instead of Mr. Maxwell would have been the right move, I’m not disputing that. At the time of the draft however, you cannot say that drafting Mr. Maxwell was the wrong move. He was the better prospect, with more talent, more upside and better production. It’s not something the Canadiens pulled out of thin air, it was unanimous, everyone agreed that Mr. Maxwell was a higher-ranked prospect, as you saw by the profiles I posted.

If the Canadiens had drafted a player that no one else had on their radar, like for example their pick of David Fisher, if they had tried to be cute and thought they were smarter than everyone else by picking someone no one thought would go for at least another couple of rounds, then they would be subject to criticism. Choosing Mr. Maxwell doesn’t fall in that category, he was a safe, defensible pick. He just turned out to be another 18 year old player who didn’t develop as projected, and Mr. Lucic turned out quite probably as well as anyone could have hoped.

If we see a preponderance of such wasted picks, then again the management team opens itself up to scrutiny, but they did move aggressively to pick up Ryan White in 2006 when they saw him still on the board. So that’s not “nothing”. And in 2007, they hit on Mr. Pacioretty, Subban and Weber, so overall it’s a decent average.

3) Slick, eh? Good that you can tell how smooth I am.

You have to explain this statement:

“PatS is right i don’t think u see the big picture slick. It’s not just 5 years ago it’s right now aswell, what did Gainey’s front man do at trade deadline? NOTHING! He signed a want a be tough guy and blew more money on a goalie when we had a descent one already, etc.,etc.”

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Trade deadline? Do you mean when Mr. Gauthier picked up Mr. Sopel and Mr. Mara? You don’t make any sense.

Or do you mean July 1st, when he signed Erik Cole and Peter Budaj? Why do I have to figure out what you’re going on about? This goes back to my original point about expressing yourself clearly. If you had proofread your post you wouldn’t have left this pile here as is.

If I’m right, and you’re referring to Mr. Cole as a wannabe fighter, then you are completely twisting what the signing means to the team. No analyst or serious fan believes that he is a fighter, or a wannabe. What he is is a scoring winger with size and speed, no more no less. The fact that you try to characterize him as you did shows the irrational dislike you have for Canadiens’ management and refusal to accept things as they are.

As far as Mr. Budaj, we can agree to disagree that he is an upgrade at a reasonable cost for the backup goalie position.

Un Canadian Errant or should i call you coach–you talk but you don’t want to listen–i see you avoiding to give comments about the end product–i see you trying to justify player tranasactions but you don’t go near discussing the end product–can montreal play physical against boston/bruins—did they not get physically outplayed by the flyers in the conference finals–did we not take a massive beatdown in boston during the regular season–this would not happen if your player transactions worked out so well–now, i know you are going to come to my grammar b/c that is the only thing you can say b/c the end product speaks for itself—i’m sure you will say something now coach

Hey pat s, I’m willing to talk reasonably and discuss ideas. I appreciate that your post shows more care than previous ones may have, the polish and effort makes it easier to discuss the ideas contained therein.

I watched the Canadiens in the 70’s and saw them depose the Flyers with a mix of skill and toughness. I saw the Canadiens in the 80’s ice a slower, less-skilled team that played hard but within the rules, and that had toughness and size.

The Canadiens two seasons ago got close in the playoffs but in the end couldn’t overcome the Flyers mix of size and skill (Richards, Carter, Briere). Having a bit more size might have helped, but so may having one or two more snipers to relieve the pressure off Mr. Cammalleri. In effect we needed to rely on more miracles from Mr. Halak to win that series, and he ran out of horseshoes.

Last season I saw the Canadiens measure up well with the Bruins, we won the regular season series and took the playoffs right to Game 7 OT. We did get pounded in one game where Greg Campbell beat down Mr. Pyatt, for example, but I think that was a failure of the NHL and the officiating, not our team.

Generally, if we can get two players of equal skills and production but one is bigger and plays tough, of course I would prefer that player, but so would everyone else, including the 29 other GM’s in the league. What I wouldn’t want is a situation where we’re debating whether to choose Mike Bossy or Dwight Foster.

Mr. Gauthier has addressed some of the needs in terms of adding size to the roster by bringing in Mr. Yemelin and Mr. Cole. Mr. Subban and Mr. Pacioretty will be in their second season and last year both brought in a measure of physical play.

We’re adding assets and talent to the organization, we can slowly build up our team toughness without the need to take on a Zenon Konopka or worse.

Un Canadien Errant! You think you’re smart eh? I AM A HABS FAN who is sick of just making it to the playoffs, you’re part of the Martini Crowd who doesn’t like any physical type of play and is just happy to wear the jersey whether they are in 1st place or not! It’s fans like you that do not speak up the truth about the organization which give the Habs no reason to fix the problem because you will still buy the tickets and fill the stadium day after day. Do you teach english? probably so because your more interested in grammer and punctuation than resolve in the team winning the cup. Don’t focuse on that and focus on what’s going on with this team. You watched the team in the 70’s? What a complete 180 this team has gone, don’t you think? Or maybe you were not in fact a habs fan then or now! Don’t bother correcting people’s grammer or punctuation here because this site does not give out degrees!

Then he’d just say they’re soft and/or don’t understand the game. It’s almost like he just talks out his….

Aside from people getting jumped after blatant dirty plays (which happens everywhere, even in leagues with game misconducts/10 minute penalties) I think most NA fans like even the Ivanans vs. Laraque style pointless fights. The LNAH exists, Junior B exists, the SPHL and CHL exist, and it isn’t to develop players for something more. A disturbing amount of Americans EXPECT to see a fight. Until that changes, and maybe it will when the fans are people that grew up knowing how to skate, I don’t think it will change much because of attitudes, although I do think it will change somewhat, but more because of teams wanting usable players on the bench.

I think the myth is that the casual hockey fan will buy tickets or tune in because of fighting, and will lose interest if it is purged from the game. The ‘clinching’ argument is always that nobody goes to the bathroom when a fight breaks out.

I think this is a fallacy. As an analogy, I can say that everyone always slows down and gawks at a motor vehicle collision scene, but that doesn’t mean we should not work to eradicate them. People are curious, and two people fighting will always have shock value, like the collision, and will pique their interest. That doesn’t mean it is desirable.

Living near Vancouver, I’ve had the ‘pleasure’ over the years to see the Canucks play the Wild, and I will tell you that most of those were yawners, and that when a fight started everyone was jolted awake and stood up and screamed. To me that doesn’t prove that fighting is good for hockey, it proves that grinders and checkers slow the game down to a dull dullness. If we encourage artistry and skill, we will be entertained by the game itself, rather than by a sideshow.

Owners are apparently fearful that banning fighting would hit their bottom line. I say that, as always, the NHL is laughably short-sighted, and are giving up a lot more money by allowing fighting. If the game was allowed to be as open and spectacular as it could be, casual fans who are turned off by stifling defensive hockey and thuggery would flock, and would more than make up for a few dinosaurs who can’t get their fix of violence and stop watching. What would you rather watch, two guys wrestle and hit each other in the helmet, or Alexander Ovechkin scoring on his back?

Un Canadien Errant–no kidding you like gainey b/c you like that pretty boy hockey . Maybe you should go watch the KHL or a european league. I think the NHL is fine the way it is, just 1 problem, they need to take out the 2 minute instigator rule

I don’t think the habs are about artistic hockey. If it was we would have kept that very eloquent skater L’Artiste. Or that mighty shrimp Koivu. But the habs are all about signing those players who no one wants and who are willing to pay a huge tax to play here both financially and in the media, cause they have no where else to go. The fact that Montreal has a nice history is mute to say the least, otherwise we’d have the Crosby’s and Ovechkin’s dying to play here, but they don’t. Instead we get washed up veterans like Cole, Gomez, Cammy etc. Since when have the habs ever signed a real scoring player? When Gainey let Streit go, and that showed that the habs were not about offense. The habs are all about making money for the owners. But hockey is also about scoring a goal and winning. If we can get the combination of a good offense and a good goalie, like we had under Dryden and the big bird and Lafleur and those scorers when hockey was hockey…..

In our current roster, and throughout the recent drafts, say, since 2004 for fits and shizzles, being an armchair GM, who and how would you have built the Habs? Please be realistic in your expert approaches.

I don’t really have a big issue with who the Habs drafted. The draft is a crapshot and easy to second guess. I have an issue with who the team target during free agent and trade. There have been a slew of talented big bodies that have switch teams over the years who I think if the Habs had targeted, they could of been playing in Montreal. Guys like Horton, Stewart, Burns just off the top of my head are guys that could have been had for our top lines or defence. Every year there are big energy guys available that can hit for the 3rd or 4th lines and instead we get small guys like Metro, Moore, Halpern, Darche (with all due respect to these guys). Seems like every guy the Habs get is 5ft11, 190 pounds. How many of these guys do we need.

I don’t think Darche qualifies as small, and sometimes the players you’re asking for just aren’t worth trading for or aren’t available to all teams. Chris Stewart would have cost PK Subban. I’m a big fan of Stewart but is he worth that? Not a chance. Burns would have been nice but the player we’d be shipping out would probably be Pacioretty, so that isn’t so appealing, and Burns has some heavy injury issues as well.

I think you can also see with the additions of Cole and Emelin that the organization IS looking to upgrade toughness/size/grit/jam or whatever the buzzword of the day is.

March 2, 2010 – Matt D’Agostini traded to St. Louis Blues for Aaron Palushaj
——————-
I dont know whats up with Ramo (does he ever want to come to the NHL?) or how Bournival and Palushaj are panning out. You don’t hear much about them – is that because they are young or just because they are long shots?

Bournival had a pretty good season. He’s got a good motor, good hockey sense in all three zones and leadership ability. Projects as a two-way player on a 3rd line, or perhaps a 2nd. His most recent hockeysfuture rating is a 6.5B. So – not necessarily a high ceiling (6.5), but the likelihood that he achieves his potential is quite good (that’s the B). I seem to recall his being one of the very last WJC cuts this past year.
The team he captains, Shawinigan, hosts the next Memorial Cup, so he’ll likely get some invaluable experience. So I guess you could say this is a big year for him!

Palushaj got his cup of coffee this year, and I’d say it’s likely we’ll see him as an injury call-up again.

you can’t beat that team–serge savard was the best GM–take runs at that team and see what happens–plus,it didn’t hurt having a goalie that would become the best goalie on the planet–forget that, the best goalie to ever play in the NHL–i don’t care what anyone tells me, Patrick Roy was the best goalie to ever play in the NHL—

i’d love to see Roy be the habs GM–what a different direction he would take with this team–than we can go play in boston or phili

I guarantee you that the Habs would not have become such a soft team and easy team to play against if Roy was the GM. That game on Feb.9th against Boston was embaressing as a Habs fan and to have no response to the Chara hit was even more embaressing. And no, I don’t expect anyone to go after Chara, there is nobody in the league that is in his category. But at least go after another Bruin and hurt him. An eye for an eye. Like it or not, that is the culture of the NHL.

The team being so soft is not the fault of the players, it is the fault of management and Roy would not have let this team get so soft so Pat’s post is not as ridiculous as you make it sound.

PropWash–gomez went face to face with chara–like come on–chara would be gomez on long term disbility and as much he are overpaying him and he would go IR , I personally wouldn’t that to happen. I don’t want any hab hurt. This is why we need to get tougher with mener players that can do–i’m no saying goons, but players that can make our team meaner—i would love to see chara and a nilan in his prime, than chara would have his hands full

Propwash, it is like the old days, Buttman and Colon Campbell have seen to that with their ridicilous discipline and suspension system.
THe NHL won’t protect your players, teams need to do that on there own. Who on the Habs can really protect PK, Price, MaxPac, Eller this year. Nobody. Roy would not let that happen. PG doesn’t protect his player. Feb9th (the day the Habs became the Bruins bitc&es) should have changed all this. I am a diehard Habs fan and am feed up of seeing them pushed around.

ProHabs, put it in perspective, the game that MaxPac got injured, the Habs still won by a large margin.
The game after that, yeah, the Habs folded, but Boston showing their might and toughness goes after non-fighters, yeah, to me that shows that Boston has balls of steel….
Playoff time the Habs lost in overtime in game 7. I think our team did pretty f***ing good considering the crap they went through.

If these guys can’t “protect” themselves they shouldn’t be in the league, period. What do you think this is, some sort mafia organization that requires hit men and gorillas to “protect” the dons or the high flyers?

Propwash, that last meeting between Montreal and Boston (7 or 8 nothing game), for the first time in my life, I was actually worried for the safety of the Habs players. Boston can do whatever they want to any of our players (PK) and there is absolutely nothing the Habs can reply with. It is a joke.

Ya the team took the Bruins to game 7. Good for them but they still lost. After what the Bruins did to the Habs this year, there is no way they should have let the Bruins win. They had Boston bend over after 2 games and failed to finish them off. I am not happy with a first round lose, game 7 overtime doesn’t make it any easier.

Hey, it sucks to see them lose in playoff overtime, but do you honestly think having tough guys creating penalties would have helped the scenario? Seeing that boston got away with everything short of murder?

Some people simply don’t get it. You can throw out as many stats as you want. You can talk about hit stats. You can talk about George Laraque not panning out. You can talk about Bruins being cowards because they go after non-fighters.

The fact of the matter is, there’s a perception around the league, in the media and among fans of other teams that the Habs are small and soft. This goes beyond the Boston games. Over the last several years, the Habs have struggled agaisnt big, physical teams. They’re good against less physical, talented teams (Pitt, Washington) but the problem with the Habs is they NEVER seem to dictate the pace of any game. They let the other team dictate and they adapt. If you’re going to use this philosophy you need to be well rounded. So you need to be built to play against the speedy skilled teams as well as against the more physical teams. Look at all the cup winners…they all had well rounded teams. Even the non-physical ones…if the game did get physical, they would not be pushed all over the ice.

Look at the lack of 5 on 5 scoring. Look at how Cam’s numbers have dipped, the smaller skilled guys need bigger guys to create space for them.

This is not rocket science. If you want to be a contender, you need a well rounded team. Heart/character, leadership, size, skill, toughness.

We frankly don’t have enough talent/skill to compensate for the lack of physicality.

Perception is reality. We’re a soft team… However, Gauthier has taken steps to address that. I hope he goes a little further.

December 31, 2010 – Maxim Lapierre traded to Anaheim Ducks for Brett Festerling and a 5th Round pick in 2012 (TBD) which was later traded back to Anaheim for Paul Mara (February 17, 2011)

December 28, 2010 – 2nd round pick (Johan Sundstrom) in 2011 and a 5th round pick (TBD) in 2012 traded to New York Islanders for James Wisniewski. 2nd round pick was NHL compensation for 1st round pick David Fischer not being signed

January 5, 2009 – Conditional 7th round pick (John Westin) in 2010 traded to Pittsburgh Penguins for T.J. Kemp who signed in Germany, returning the pick to Montreal

September 12, 2008 – 2nd round pick (Jared Knight – Boston) in 2010, previously acquired from Toronto and later traded to Boston in the Phil Kessel deal, traded to Chicago Blackhawks for Robert Lang

July 11, 2008 – Corey Locke traded to Minnesota Wild for Shawn Belle

July 3, 2008 – Mikhail Grabovski traded to Toronto Maple Leafs for Greg Pateryn and a 2nd round pick (Jared Knight – Boston) in 2010 which was later traded to Chicago, back to Toronto and then to Boston in the Phil Kessel deal

June 20, 2008 – 1st round pick (Greg Nemisz) in 2008 and a 2nd round pick (Stefan Elliott – Colorado) in 2009 which was later traded to Colorado, traded to Calgary Flames for Alex Tanguay and a 5th round pick (Maxim Trunev) in 2008

2007-2008 Montreal Canadiens – GM Bob Gainey

February 26, 2008 – Cristobal Huet traded to Washington Capitals for a 2nd round pick (Jeremy Morin – Atlanta) in 2009, previously acquired from Anaheim and later traded to Atlanta

I love it when people say, it is what it is, as if there was no debate on the matter. What can I say, I find that kind of absurd, not to mention completely contrary to the philosophy of the WHOLE DARNED SITE.

PLEASE. AK vs Richards on paper at draft time? Without a magic crystal ball? EVENS. AK is a big, big man, who at draft time was projected to top six as a large scoring forward. Excuse me, but that doesn’t sound like drafting for a small, skilled team. Just because AK hasn’t met YOUR expectations doesn’t make him a small, soft player.

When Gainey took over…the team was fairly large. Not too skilled but they were on the bigger side with a lot of jam. Now, this was in the old NHL where there was a bigger emphasis on size and “truculence”. Gainey went after speedy, skilled players. His only issue is he didn’t seem to look at size, grit, etc in addition to that. When the Habs got bounced all over the ice against Philly in 07-08? in the playoffs, his answer was to add Laraque which to me showed Bob had no idea how to address the lack of team toughness. Thing is, the team has gotten even softer since then. Now Gauthier has taken over the reigns and appears to somewhat understand that the team lacks toughness…but I’m still not satisfied. However, I’m willing to give him more time.

JayBee–i completely agree with you and you are correct, maybe I should give gauthier a little more breathing room–it is just too frustrating for me to watch the habs get bounced around like they do–

i said the same thing when gainey got laraque–it was just on over all mismatch in terms of physical play between the flyers and habs in the conference finsals–they need soldiers that will crash net, that hammer the puck–look at boston, there is no team in the NHL that control the boards like they do and they won the cup on the style–you control the boards you control the game

JD–you know what is its a joke with your argument–you are saying this pizza has this and has that , we added this spice and this vegetable and blah blah blah and the end of the day that pizza taste like crap

i look at the overall product and i go by that–all these arguments are excuses–i go by what happens on the ice and if you don’t see that montreal gets outmuscled and physically outplayed game in and game out than i suggest you watch a different sport–holy man, what else does it take to see that size, and grit, and having blue collar players is what is needed to win a cup–boston just proved it

i don’t know didn’t gainey have a chance to draft lucic and he picked maxwell instead–tournament MVP–but i know you are going to say how many other gms didn’t draft him yet if gainey did draft him you would say what a great pick–in other words, you can’t with your type of arguments

pat s, your posts are not a joy to read. I don’t know if it’s the flaccid logic or the lack of punctuation and grammar or structure in your arguments.

I don’t have the patience to rebut all of your ramblings, but let me address the Maxwell-Lucic conundrum. Five years later, you’re bleating about which player the Canadiens should have picked in the second round. They went with Ben Maxwell, who had good skill and speed, and decent size for a team that has historically been searching for a big center. He was also rated higher by all the scouting services than Milan Lucic.

Boston surprised some by taking Milan Lucic this early, he was thought to be a project with less upside than Mr. Maxwell, but he fit in with their organizational philosophy, and damn us if they didn’t hit the lottery. I live on the West Coast and remember the sports anchors here being happy for Milan that he got drafted this early, and thinking that in Boston he might flourish.

This wasn’t a headscratcher, there was no clamour in the streets of Montreal as to why we didn’t take a banger who scored 19 points in the WHL, instead of a centre who tallied 60. You can fault the Canadiens when they reach for a francophone, or for David Fisher, but to say this draft decision was a blunder is revisionist and intellectually dishonest.

Both Mr. Maxwell and Ryan White were rated higher than Mr. Lucic. I’ll paste all of their profiles for your edification. Don’t thank me, I don’t mind doing the heavy lifting and research, if you’ll just get down off your barstool and keep the misinformation down.

According to many in the game, Ryan White is not your prototypical athlete. At least physically, that is.

“He’s not a great physical specimen, he’s not necessarily in great physical condition, but when we put him on the ice, he does nothing but win battles,” said Hitmen GM and head coach Kelly Kisio.

White is a native of Brandon, Manitoba and has evolved into a consistently dependable performer in Calgary. The club uses White in all situations and is clearly impressed with is ability to lead through consistent on-ice production. This past season, the durable forward played in all 72 regular season games, scoring 20 goals and 33 assists. With 121 penalty minutes, White established himself as a player not hesitant to mix things up when need be.

“He’s heard it often enough from a lot of hockey people and he’s beginning to understand the importance of a commitment to conditioning,” Kisio assured. “He’s definitely a guy we’re looking to for a good couple of seasons here. The puck seems to follow him around out there, probably because he such a smart player and works so hard on the ice.”

A native of North Vancouver, Ben Maxwell responded well to a broadened role in his second season with the Ice, scoring 28 goals and 32 assists in 69 games.

“We were never really concerned about his offensive output because he’s a very talented player, said Ice head coach Cory Clouston. “About halfway through the season, he really hit kind of a low point, but in the last three weeks he’s really got his game back on track and I think he’s really battled.”

Maxwell has played in a host of team situations, appearing in Ottawa last season at the annual CHL/NHL Prospects Game. He was also a member of Hockey Canada’s U-18 team in April at the World Championships in Sweden.

“His play without the puck is what I think has really improved lately,” Clouston continued. “He’s been very responsible defensively for us and he’s played with more of an edge. That’s something he really has to do more consistently. Offensively, he’s very gifted. Good speed, good hands, and I think what’s starting to click for him is his play away from the puck.”

Following his second season in Vancouver, Milan Lucic finds himself as a better player today, based simply on his experience with the WHL champions and their trip to the Memorial Cup in Moncton.

The native of Vancouver, BC, Lucic possess the physical stature that will earn a long look from NHL scouts. Lucic played in 62 games this past season and picked up nine goals and 10 assists. His 149 penalty minutes served to keep opponents honest, while creating open space on the ice for the many of the Giants high-end, offensive talents.

Like many prospects who play an aggressive, in your face style, Lucic’s commitment to fundamentals will always be scrutinized closely. Lucic will be looked upon to continue improving his offensive skills and with a concerted effort next season, he can become a valuable and relied upon veteran as the Giants gear up to host the 2007 Memorial Cup tournament.

Un Canadien errant! Were on here to criticize the garbage moves that gainey has made with these midgets who can’t play with teams like the big bad bruins not to have a spelling b with each other! If you can honestly say that Gainey did the right move by getting that cinderella(Maxwell) than Lucic your on good stuff buddy! It’s your buddy Gainey’s job to see who’s a better player here not make moves based on trial and error! PatS is right i don’t think u see the big picture slick. It’s not just 5 years ago it’s right now aswell, what did Gainey’s front man do at trade deadline? NOTHING! He signed a want a be tough guy and blew more money on a goalie when we had a descent one already, etc.,etc. Put down your Bescherelle and Wake up!

I’m always amused when a terrible post gets rightfully torn down by a multitude of posters and a straggler jumps to the defense of the original poster in spite of well-articulated critiques. But I digress.
Cobra, good on you for knowing exactly what you want out of the site and the team it focuses on. If you’re here strictly to “criticize the garbage moves,” you’ll find yourself interacting with the same tired group of drooling sub-morons. Where’s the fun in that? I’m here strictly for discussion.
And please, be careful when you use inclusive pronouns (which I’m assuming is what you’re going for when you use the word “were” sometimes.) I’d hazard a guess that few if any people would want you speaking for them.

I’m not sure what pat took out of this list of trades that made him start talking about drafting philosophy. And I didn’t see any instances of consequence where BGPG simply gave away grission – unless you’re the type of person who can’t get over a 7th defenceman or thought Max Lapierre made us a tougher team. We didn’t become soft by trade.

Things I take away from this list :

– Only two clear-cut wins – the Kovalev and Rivet deals

– Probably more “losses” than “wins” so far, though it’s too early too tell for lots of this list. There’s players in the system with NHL potential from 2008 trades. There’s plenty of instances of not getting a commensurate return, but in many cases, you could make an anecdotal addition-by-subtraction argument. Blissfully ignoring the events of 6/30/09, only the Tanguay trade stands out for me as one that hurt the organization

– more draft picks going out than coming in. This I have a big problem with. The team has done very well finding NHL players in later rounds, so they would have done well to amass all the 3rd, 4th, 6th, or even 8th round picks they could, and to hold on to more of their 2nd’s.

– 5 goalies traded from the organization since the 2005 draft, and our goalie is the clear-cut best of the lot.

– I wouldn’t want a single player traded away on the ’11/’12 Habs. Oh, correction, Macdonagh could be on my team. I had a soft spot for SK, but I don’t think many of his teammates did.

its not just the trades, its free agents/drafts–i’m saying that gainey’s philosophy of having a team with speed and have a play nice syemtem it influenced to pick this ype of tem–he wanted this kind of team and it didn’t work–how much is needed to see it doesn’t work—if gainey’s selection of all players worked i can see your point–if montreal doesn’t have a soft team i can do see your point–in the other words, the product on the ice shows his moves were the wrong moves–thats the data that tells you about his moves–the end products tells the whole story

pat s I’m assuming you’re composing these posts on a temperamental Blackberry with a few keys missing while wearing oven mitts and welders’ goggles in the dark while hanging upside down suspended by your feet in a shower stall with cold water running down your nose causing you to cough violently while your Nana Mouskouri albums are cranked to 11.

UN canadian errant–just curious, how much do you get paid by the habs for getting so personal with people b/c they don’t agree–i’m sure a cheque is coming this morning. You are the king of excuses, that is all you are.

Has any former Hab traded on his fame and created a hugely successful franchise the way ex-Leaf Tim Horton did? I mean other than Doug Harvey.
Too bad other notable Canadien rearguards hadn’t pursued a career in the food industry with chains of restaurants across the country. Bearing names like Chilli-O’s or LaPointeen.
Is there a Hal Grill in the future, with halibut as its specialty? Probably not. The slow service would kill it.

maybe if montreal had another number 1 goalie they would entertain that idea but there is no way gauthier would make that trade–thats gambling and gauthier would not do an all in play–you need a serge savard to make high risk trades like that–some work and some don’t but you need to be willing to gamble

What’s with the unnecessary sarcasm? JVR’s career high in the NHL is 40 points as a 22 year old. When AK was 22 he got 53 points that season.

I’m not saying I think AK is a better player than JVR, but the trade mike3131 proposed isn’t nearly as far-fetched as you might think. Remember, he mentioned we’d also have to include a draft pick (possibly a 1st rounder) along with AK to get JVR.

the flyers would want PAC included in a trade for JVR and there is no way i want montreal to trade PAC–he is my favorite hab player–no way—there is no comparrison between JVR and AK–AK disappears in the playoffs– its too rough on the ice during the playoffs

the time to chase after JVR was last summer when he hadn’t become the superstar power winger he is now and philly had leighton as their goalie. I actually was certain at the time montreal would package the kostitsyn brothers with halak for either jeff carter or JVR

Believe it was last week that someone suggested the NHL should consider a protocol whereby teams based in higher tax jurisdictions would receive cap ‘ relief ‘ with a view to keeping the salary playing field as level as possible across the league.

It seems improbable that anything along these lines would gain much traction altho, having resided in PQ and 4 other provinces, I get where the idea comes from.
Or, I thought I did until a member of the Gorges clan mentioned recently that, when #26 was with SJ, his 52% tax bracket was pretty close to his current 54% in PQ.

Now, IF this is correct, the Habs might be more competitive in terms of salary purchasing power than is often reflected in posts here. Perks such as mortgage interest deductions would be nice, of course (for all of us) but at least all CDN franchises are in the same boat on that one …

I had a similar idea. If the purpose of a salary cap is to make things “fair” or equal across the league, then it only makes sense to consider the different tax rates in the all the provinces and states where teams are located.

I doubt it would happen though as this would mostly benefit Canadian teams and that’s not really something Buttman and Co. are into.

It could even be taken one step further to factor in cost of living (IE a 1 million dollar home in Columbus would be worth A LOT more in Manhattan for the exact same home). This is much more far-fatched an idea and would be a logistical nightmare too, so I know it won’t happen. Just putting it out there.

I’ve been staring at this g-damn picture all day and JUST noticed there’s a Boston player behind him to the right. HIO had to get in their Bruins plug, I guess. Mr. Gauthier, do us all a huge favour and get Josh signed, pretty please?

Why the hell would I bother having a profile if I wasn’t going to click on every link posted on HIO regardless of how lame it is? What, am I NOT going to click? These are rhetorical questions. How bored are you? This is also rhetorical.

Here’s a question for yez all:
I manage to get to see a game or two every year, but I’ve never been to an away game.
Where would you, fellow commentarians, suggest travelling to if you were to go with a couple of buddies?
– Ottawa: too close and boring
– Toronto: too expensive and…well, it’s just Toronto
– New York (Rangers): a good one but maybe expensive?
– New York (Isles): Too many Habs fans for a proper ‘away-game’ experience
– NJ: Anything to do down there?
– Boston: Sounds like fun, but maybe hard to get tickets?

Buffalo has great sightlines in the arena. Prices are very reasonable. However, you have the potential to have to put up with real jerkoff fans. Reg. Season games in Buffalo are pretty good, lots of us Hab fans there. Playoff games are another story, Last time we played Buffalo in the playoffs I went to the games and had my jersey quite discolored and had to deal with that wonderful Buffalo element, similar to a Bills game.

If you can do the road trip big time, nothing like going to Florida in winter and going to games there!

I’m with HabinBurlington. Florida habs games are very cool.
Most fans (especially in Sunrise) are Habs fans, and a lot of fun.
And the beer is cheap.
I would also suggest taking in a Noriques’ game, but….
I’m showing my age.

Maybe try some of the games against western teams if you can? I’d imagine a road trip to Chicago would be pretty cool. There’s always the double header against the Panthers and Lightning but there is usually a huge contingent of Habs fans at those games. I would love to check out a Tampa-Montreal match this winter actually just so that I could combine my love for warm weather with Hockey. Its the perfect marriage.

Sure to get tickets in Florida? are you joking? the two habs games here are sold out every year. It’s one of the hardest Panthers game to get tickets for. You can pick them up from scalpers before the game but bring cash.

“If Boston sounds like fun then you need to travel more.”
Now, I know you’ve never visited Boston – one of the greatest American cities.

I would suggest either Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. Philly, much like Boston, has a very old-world historical feel with plenty to do. But, much like Boston, tickets may be hard to come by. Pittsburgh has less to offer, but just enough for a day trip. In every case here, ticket availability will be the issue.

Washington is a great city, but simply lacks a “hockey” feel IMO. I would agree with Chicago as well as a Western option. Another great American city, although not as historical feeling as Boston or Philly, but bigger and with plenty to do.

Area around the arena is getting better. Caught a Christmas break game in TB a few of years ago and had great time cheering with all the Habs fans. Habs didn’t though; everyone had the flu and they only managed 13 shots

I have been lucky enough to see games in Toronto, Buffalo and Minneapolis.

The best part of an away game, if when the Habs score, you stand up, and some guy 10 rows down stands up, and some one else far away stands and cheers, it is fun to be part of that us-vs them atmosphere.

TOR: 3-4 controversial loss, even Don cherry claimed the leafs goal should not count. Lots of fun, Good natured teasing with other fans. (I got a small popcorn flurry).

BUF: Theodore had a great outing and the habs won. I quietly snuck away to the car…

MIN: ~3 years ago, Saku and company came to the Excel energy centre, which is an AMAZING place to watch hockey. They really did a good job with that building. Montreal wins a close one, and it was fun mingling with Decent fans from the other side.

I know it will be a hard feat to score Habs tix in my new home of Winnipeg.

habs win 2 – 1 over buffalo in october this past season: all of us habs fans sing ole ole ole on the way out. sabres fans start chanting USA?! then we remind them that crosby scored the winner against miller in the olympics.

Quiet afternoon, time for another question. Why don’t more Quebec born NHL players want to play for the Habs. I have my theories, media pressure and dollars.

But seriously, we all (most of us) grew up in a country where being a hockey star in your hometown (or if your town didn’t have an NHL team your favourite team) was what you wanted to be growing up and win the cup. I recognize there is tremendous media pressure and income is better elsewhere, but if you really wanted to be the best you could be, doesn’t that automatically include being the best for your favourite team. As we all have become adults, we still have that feeling of a kid inside. I think the scenario in Montreal is better now than it was 5-10 years ago for players wanting to be in Montreal. I give Bob Gainey/PG, and George Gillette/Geoff Molson credit for that.

Perhaps I shouldnt ask only in light of Montreal, but why don’t more Canadian Hockey born players want to play for their favourite team and try win the cup there.

I think money talks more than anything else at the end of the day. Everyone knows the pressure involved with being a hometown hero in Montreal. Many players prefer to make the same money elsewhere with zero expectations. I think it all depends on the character of the player. In that regard Gainey and PG seem to have gone to great lengths to acquire players who have a passion for the game and the character to survive the Montreal limelight.

But I do wish there were more Canadian boys playing for the Canadian teams though. It seems like more and more the NHL is becoming very much an international league.

Money indeed talks. And the nature of the draft is different today. In the day, the habs could select a player (pre-draft) and maintain them for their entire careers. And they had their pick of the litter for all of Quebec and many areas across Canada. So did the Leafs. And these areas were loaded with talent. It was more of a challenge for the other 4 original teams to find that much talent in their regional areas. And the GM’s of some teams were better than others (read: Sam Pollock and the Lafleur deal). And to put a personal flavour, I think the habs lost their appeal with Houle and Tremblay at the helm. Two loose cannons who were better at playing than managing, and they scared away Roy, the fans, and opposing players.

I completely concur that the Corey/Houle/Tremblay days were not good days from a PR Habs perspective. Perhaps, I have am just to much of an ideoligist, but the next francophone player on the Habs roster that wins a cup will own that city for the rest of his life is my thought.

In light of your signature, you are correct for feeling that way. I must admit, many of my posts, i have had to go back and change spelling over and over. But the gist should remain the same. We are whom we say we are. And as sarcastic as I can be, I have had to learn the taste of my size 13 shoes, not always in my best interests granted, but lessons learned.

Thanks everyone for the comments on the seats for the games. I’ve tried the online waiting room in pervious seasons and had no luck…so I’m not holding my breath for that to work out. But I will try again for sure.

Planning a trip from Newfoundland to Mtl To watch the games on the 4th, 5th and 7th of February 2012. I’m looking for at least 2 tickets and maybe 3 or 4 tickets for each game. As a back up plan I’d try and buy them on the street when I get there, but you can imagine the stress of booking flights and hotel for 5 days and not having any game tickets. Anyone got tickets available or any helpful suggestions? Thanks,
Richard B

lol,
three games in 4 days is very rare. When flying in from NL, packing multiple games in is important. Only time it happens this season. Also at home with the pens and caps in the schedule is not shabby either.

First the Lombardi rant, and now this. Is it a statistical blip, or is this something indicative of something broken in Edmonton?

I want the Canadian franchises to be healthy, and Edmonton has me worried. Sure they have young talent, but they are almost automatically excluded as a free agent or trade destination because they are a small-market, cold-climate destination. If their management team and organization is also viewed as bush league, what happens five years down the line when the Canadian dollar weakens and Taylor Hall et al all become free agents and leave?

The secret to a small-market team is for word-of-mouth between players to praise it as a place to work and live. Montreal doesn’t fit the label of small-market, but we suffered in the past with players refusing to come here, and that seems to no longer be the case. Players who are here want to stay here, and they tell their colleagues as much. Edmonton seems to be headed down the path to disaster.

Does anyone have any insights into the Oilers situation? Is this a Steve Tambellini problem? I remember his work with the Canucks, he was seen as a bright young executive and set to do some good work for whoever hired him.

I’m not a financial expert, and the position you take seems to be what the experts believe. I’m just thinking that currencies fluctuate, we’ve seen ours dip really low before, we’re a resource economy in a stagnant world economy, so I’m not comfortable with the idea that we won’t see an 80 cent dollar again in our lifetime. That could be a disaster for the Oilers, Flames, Senators, Jets…

What? HabsFan, how can you say that?
They’ve been on a steady decline for 3 years now, and we’re still holding our own. I wouldn’t go as far as HardHabits in saying that their dollar is done, but I wouldn’t dismiss it, either. Yes their fiscal policies are in a shambles, and on the sports front, I think it’ll have an impact on all sports in most U.S. markets.
We’re on much more solid footing and even big sports’ executives realize it. Do you think Winnipeg would be hockey town this year if Buttman thought their economy could continue to support teams with no focus and (especially) no money.
We are not like the U.S. that much anymore, and the Canadian sports teams are in pretty good shape.
And the Oilers were starting their decline before Sather left. He likes playing with other people’s money (See: Gomez).

I’m not particularly concerned the C$ is facin’ the prospect of some sort of sustained decline relative to the US$ and would go so far as to suggest the more probable risk is to the upside. Underpinnin’ this is the belief that oil prices have undergone a secular shift, resource demand growth will fluctuate around a positively sloped long-term trend line, and that the US$ is in the midst of a structural disconnect.

As long as the Canadian franchises continue to generate their revenues in C$, this is a good thing. For companies that sell their products in the global market and manufacture or assemble a portion of them domestically – e.g., Bombardier passenger aircraft and business jets – the prospect is a bit of a nightmare.

Question to the Commentariat:
When do we all submit the following predictions
1. Team Finish – Points and Position
2. Number of Points for Scott Gomez, Erik Cole, Andrei Markov and PK Subban.
3. Carey Price GAA, Shutouts, Wins vs. Jaro Halak
4. Season Series vs. Boston Wins/Loss
5. Benoit Pouliot Goals and Assists, games played for Boston
6. Overall Playoff Finish

Having everybody submit their prediction in writing, will allow us to do an actual sacrifice of those proven to be wrong. For example, as a member of the Kool-Aid drinking fraternity, I believe the team is on its way to having a very good season. I also am hopeful Gomez has a bounceback season. Therefore, while ridiculed in the off season, if I am correct on my predictions, I get to roast those that disagree. Just the same, if I am wrong, I get my ass handed to me by the naysayers.

We have spent the offseason going back and forth with each other and it would be good to have a scorecard which we can review mid season, and post season.

Just a thought….

Please feel free to provide additions/subtractions to what is included in our questionairre!

I think you have a choice of either asking for our predictions Sept 1 or Sept 30. If Sept 1, PG should have finished all his moves but training camp hasn’t started yet so our predictions will be solely based on whether our glasses are coloured rose or painted black. If you wait until Sept 30, the Commentriat would be predicting on training camp performance and how deeply (or not) we have been knocking back the kool-aid.
As for additional predictions, I think we need a GRIssion factor prediction of some sort, ie
Hits + Fights – Fights after a game is out of reach = GRIssion

All of the above are hinged on the following(not in any order):
1. Markov stays healthy
2. PK doesn’t have the sophamore jinx
3. Gomer actually shows up to play hockey
4. Price performs as well as last year, not necessarily better
5. Pouliot gets PP time and 2nd line time in BOS. I always thought he had the ability but you can’t score from the bench.
6. Cammy, Pleks and Gionta stay healthy
7. The young guys progress not digress.

No. It’s punkster and PrimeTime trying to stifle debate or criticism and at the same time thinking that they are superior by attempting to belittle others. It’s a classic example of people with inferiority complexes. Put others down to try and elevate oneself. At least punskter tries to be funny.

I love how people here are so casual with their desire for a “a good face-off guy to play the 3rd or 4th line that has size and grit” or “just need to add another big physical Dman” as if they were both a dime a dozen. What would you give up to get either player?? (And don’t say “draft picks” like it’s giving candy to a baby). Needs have a price and if you don’t want to pay it now then you wait until the market changes and perhaps the price becomes more reasonable and/or affordable. Let’s wait and see how important either “need” will become and if “bigger” needs take priority. You don’t want to go “all in” until the season begins. There us plenty of time to improve when the picture becomes a little clearer.

I wonder how the NHL would react to Simmons’ suggesting to cut the season down by 4 games for the top seven ranking teams. That’s a lot of revenue. But I agree that it would make the end of season interesting, even for the cellar dwellers. As for a weekend in “New York or L.A.”, I would substitute that for Detroit and Mtl.
And if the hockey world is to look at another league strike, after Buttman had insisted on it for parity and even profit distribution, all hell would break loose. Imagine? They keep raising the celling and floor caps and keep charging us more for tickets and beer? I don’t it would fly as easily or be digested as easily as 2004-05.

The article is interesting but has one glaring flaw: European soccer is definitely not the model to follow. He refers to the worldwide popularity of Serie A, but Serie A is in a death spiral. With the exception of Milan, the stadia are rarely more than half full. Up until the nineties, the Scudetto was anyone’s to win; however since about 2000 it has become a three-horse race from day one. Fans are staying away in droves, and the best players no longer play in Italy.

Spain is having a similar problem. The league has become a joke, with two and only two teams challenging for the title each year (Barcelona and Real Madrid). All the other teams are losing money.

England is headed in the same direction. In the last 16 years only three teams have won the premiership title, and the reason is that they have way more money to spend on players than the rest. (Arsenal is an exception but they are no longer contenders.) Now the only way to challenge for the title is to have an oil sheikh buy your team.

4 teams have won La Liga in 25 years. 4 teams have won Serie A. To think this is somehow a model to follow is ludicrous beyond comprehension. Yes NA sports are in a bind, but you cannot ignore the fact that our leagues foster the most competitive competition. Even baseball makes soccer look fixed.

Unfortunately, I have zero respect for Bruce Doughboy Dowbiggin, guy is a sadsack of a writer who has lost most every job he has had in “journalism”. He is now only put on G&M’s webpage, they don’t actually print his article. He is supposed to be a media critic, but his only goal is to fire off the same shots weekly at all of his former employers.

As others have said, to utilize the Premiereship is a mistake as that league has more financial issues than the NHL and NBA combined. I like Bill Simmons, but most everything he writes is tongue and cheek and mainly serves for humour not serious suggestions. He would never really favour a system that would knock out his beloved Celtics in a 1 game playoff at the end of the year.

I know that there is an active and vocal contingent here who love nothing better than to use former players’ “success” as proof that Gauthier, Gainey, Martin, Carbonneau etc etc are the absolute worst minds in the NHL…but the lionization of Ryan O’Byrne confuses me to no end.

I fail to see how a defenceman playing 2nd pairing minutes (20 mins/game) for a team that finished:

29th Overall in Points
30th in Goals Against
29th in PP Goals Against
26th in Short Handed Goals Against
25th in 4-on-4 Goals Against

And personally ended the season with 0 goals, 10 assists, – 7, and 3rd on the team in blocked shots (20 less than John-Michael Liles)

He *did* have lots of hits though (179)…is that it? That he had a lot of hits? Is that why he’s put up on such a pedestal?

This is a bit of an exaggeration.
Martin is overall a very good coach but he has a problem getting the best out of young players, and obviously has communication issues. Even Hal Gill implied as much when he re-signed. One would have to be blinkered not to realize this.

With Obyrne, you can’t pull up points to determine what kinda guy he is. LOL @ pulling up team stats and attributing that to one player. Really? Was he supposed to single handedly turn their defensive situation around? C’mon. That is unfair. OByrne is a big body who plays big and has a lot of grit…which is rare on this team. He had a great start to the 09-10 season…he looked very good…then got injured. And then Martin pretty much lost interest and then Gauthier brought in Picard and Obyrne was traded…..only to see our GM waste a prospect, 4th and a 5th on 2 journeymen Dmen who barely played and are no longer on the team.

So is Obyrne great? No. But I’d take him over Picard. He also fills a need…big, strong guy who plays big and sticks up for his teammates and goalie. You think Obyrne would have let Lucic hammer Price without doing anything?

and? how many times HASNT HE FOUGHT or just plain got his ass handed to him

hes a guy whose biggest claim to fame is scoring on his own net

yes he dropped them a couple of times but hes a player who has throughout his tenure of being with the habs was notorious for not being physical, the guy even went out of his way to take boxing lessons to try to remedy the stigma

ive seen a lot more games with obyrne on the ice than there are youtube clips of him awkwardly trying to do something he cant

You asked me to prove it and I did. I asked you to prove your point of view and you couldn’t. OByrne could have been more physical…but in the last couple seasons he deff started to play his size and was competent. Martin didn’t want to play him….just like he didn’t want to play Sergei and Guillaume.

OByrne “gets it”. When’s the last time you saw a Hab stick up for a teammate?

none of those clips are indicative that obyrne is what you are trying to paint him as though, we all watched the same games in and outs where he wouldnt do anything, you could probably find as many hal gill fights on youtube…

as for your last question, white going after boychuck for his run at subban

also latts was given every chance and then some to prove his game i do not understand the revisionism here

Yes, White did that and that was comendable….but I bet there aren’t too many you can remember after that.

I mean, there was an argument between myself and Tom Knickle about toughness and grit…and his key indicator was hits. Pretty much everyone agreed with him. Well, O’Byrne had more hits than anyone on this team last year (if my calcualtions are correct)….but all of a sudden he’s soft.

People like to manipulate stats and numbers to prop up their argument or agenda. Not accusing you of doing that, but IMO O’Byrne would have been a good fit here. I always thought he was decent…you don’t…here we are.

As far as Guillaume, Martin tried to change his game…he was a solid 14 goal guy with size, toughness and upside. He was traded for a guy with a lot of talent but a guy who couldn’t skate and lacked any kind of physicality….and that guy is now no longer with the team. I never liked the trade..and I never will.

You are right on JayBee that you can’t measure one player with team stats, especially a defenseman.

But on the flip side, O’Byrne was a top 4 defensemen on one of the worst teams in the league. So that sorta makes one wonder if the only reason he is getting that kind of responsibilty and minutes, is because the team is terrible, and they had no one better to fill the spot.

It will be interesting to see if/when Colorado eventually improves, if he will still be a big minute man for them.

All the while, we’ll be watching Bournival come up and hoping he turns out to be an NHL’er.

Would he have fought Lucic? I don’t know. But he sure as hell would not have acted like nothing happened.

I would have put Obyrne above both Piccard and Spacek.

For those who complain about Hab fans who criticize management and overrate players that leave…there are a bunch of other fans who back every decision and try to diminish every player who leaves. No group is better than the other.

Yes I do agree there are some people who do not question the management period but before I do question the management I ask why certain trade happens. Was it a bone head move where the decision made was no different from a flip of a coin? Was it a decision no different from someone who acts without thinking like someone with ADD would do?

I believe there are things that goes on behind doors that we never hear about. Deals with other GM? A relationship builder between GM? Problems unknown to media and people in general? Or in a chase of O’Byrne, a change of scenery which some people like me tend to go more towards as a response.

We all do pretend GMs. When I do, I will not pretend that I am better than the current GM and that the Canadiens Franchise makes bonehead moves just for the heck of trading players without any thought out analysis.

O’Byrne needed a change in scenery. The player lost his mother and had a lot of difficulty regaining focus. Starting fresh in Colorado was probably the best thing for him. Look for his TOI to drop as the Avs get better.

Furthermore, his 10 pts was good enough to place him 162nd in pts amongst defencemen, tied with Mike Komisarek (and 1 pt less than Yannick Weber incidentally), and his – 7 was good enough to place him 245th in the league.

So yesterday, a friend and I went to visit another friend in Dunnville, Ontario. Completely unbeknownst to either of us, Dunnville was the site of a massive cult gathering! I’m assuming that they were worshippers of Beelzebub (also known in some parts as Baal), as everybody was wearing black with a giant B on the chest and most of them were worshiping this silver cup. We didn’t catch sight of their dark prophet, but rumour hadit that the idolaters were being led by somebody named Nathan Horton. I can’t convey in writing the horrors that my friend and I witnessed in Dunnville yesterday, but the sight of thousands of black-clad zealots roaming around in the hot sunshine while speaking in tongues (I don’t know what words like zdeno or krejci or marchand mean, but I’m sure they all portend the end of the world, if the cultists get their way) is quite unnerving.

Further rumours point out that there might be another cult gathering in Welland on July 27th under a different dark prophet, Daniel Paille. So if you know anybody in Welland, let them know of the coming darkness. And we must all do our part to stand against the coming darkness…bedecking ourselves in the colours of light and justice (Montreal Canadiens jerseys should do the trick) could serve to rally the easily influenced masses who might fall under the sway of this terrible cult.

(All kidding aside, I don’t hold out too much animosity for Nathan Horton, who had to endure a terrible start to his career in Florida and came close to seeing his dream shattered by the Aaron Rome hit.)

Well 4 of the links had Habs or ex-Habs related info, one had a good chuckle at the expense of our rival and the last involves a fun incident with an ex-rival. So was it the Leaf sweater that soured your morning bottle of milk?

Great read JT. I remember 3 years ago when Bob Gainey was in St-John it was just as good reading your article. It was the time when Gainey had traded Grabosky for Sundins negotiation rights. It was also that day Gainey said Price is a thoroughbred.

JT’s point number 6 describes Konopka, the tough guy that can win face offs. In retrospect, he might have been a good signing for us, he was 5th in the league in faceoffs and that with his toughness would have helped. But that ship has sailed and I get the feeling JM would never have gone for him anyway.

Could not reply to your post down low. But I did not hate the idea of having Konopka on the forth line. If JM would’ve manage to improve his defensive play somehow, that is all that would be needed to make the contract look good.

So barring a few small moves…the team is now set. I was worried about the lack of 5on5 scoring from this team last year. Cole has been added and so has Markov. Pacioretty may shape into a nice power forward. However, we do lose Hammer and Wiz and I still think the lack of fire power will keep us in the bottom 3rd of the league when it comes to 5 on 5 scoring. What do you think?

I personally wouldn’t mind adding Corey Stillman on the 3rd line for some added scoring punch.

The return of Markov and the addition of Cole should have a huge impact on scoring, both at even strength and on the powerplay. Markov is a great puck-mover and passer, and Cole’s ability to drive to the net and dig the puck out along the boards should create space for our skilled scorers. Pacioretty will also score a lot if he is able to return to the form he was showing when he was injured. Factor in the progression of Lars Eller, David Desharnais, and Yannick Weber plus the fact that both Cammalleri and Gomez had sub-par seasons, and I think we should be all right for scoring.

I’m less worried about scoring than I am about overall toughness, especially during the playoffs. I think we need more muscle among our bottom six, and we also need to be able to win more faceoffs. In our series with the Bruins, faceoff wins was one of the key areas in which they were clearly superior. Winning more faceoffs does not translate directly into scoring more goals, but it certainly translates into more puck possession and hence more scoring chances.

So I’m hoping Gauthier has not finished tinkering with the team. We need a bit more muscle, someone who can win faceoffs, and another big, tough defenceman in case of injuries.

I think that a team plays to its strengths. We were able to consistently beat the Bruins until they decided to start playing rough. So overall toughness is important. However, it is very, very difficult to have a big, tough, fast, skilled, and smart team that is both offensively and defensively excellent…
I think we have more size this season, and if players like Gio, Cammi and Gomez do not have sub par seasons, then we are a very, very difficult team to play against. Teams can’t simply roll over us if we are scoring and playing a good shut down defense. But they can if we can’t put the puck in the net.
I think our biggest problem last season was our shooting percentage.
I believe if the other team has to concentrate on blocking our shots, keeping up with our speed, and still trying their best to score on us, cause we give them little chances and stop almost everything…. They cannot play a rough game against us and be successful.
I think FACEOFFS is also a HUGE problem right now. We need to be winning more on the top 2 lines.

I agree with your post. It’s clear that faceoffs need to improve dramatically this season. Unfortunately, you can’t just add a player to fix the problem. The top two lines are the ones taking most of them, so they have to get better and that might prove to be difficult…

Also I think being less penalized and adding an excellent player for the PK would help a lot since key players could focus on their offensive responsibilities..

I think Plekanec has the room to grow into being a good Face Off guy. He’s had some games where he dominates, but far too many where he goes 5-10. (a stat that killed me on many a night in my fantasy league where face wins were worth 0.1 pts!)

And hey – if Grabovski can become passable at faceoffs…than anyone can! 😀

Let’s hope so!! JT wrote a post some time ago about the importance of faceoffs. It was quite interesting. In it she quoted Carbonneau who said that Pleks had success earlier because he ‘cheated’ a bit in the circle but that now the linesmen don’t let him do it anymore… Which explains why he gets thrown out so much. But he’s a hard worker, so i’m also confident if he puts his mind to it, that he will improve… Gomez on the other hand…. 😉

Habs improved by 14 GA- nothing to sneeze at.
Habs virtually scored the same despite Cammy and Gomez having underperforming seasons.
JM has to work with what he has. This Habs team is not the mid-80s Oilers by a long shot. That said, the Habs should be better 5 on 5 with the addition of Cole and the subtraction of Pouliot.

Workers must adapt to their bosses or they get transferred or fired. Players must adapt to their coach. There is no Lafleur or Mario Lemieux in this group that proves the exception to his defensive rule. JM sees the player’s effort in practice and can see if they are improving or treading water. Unfortunately, O’B, Lats and the not-lamented, fall on his face Poupou did not make the cut. JM expected more than they could give.
JM is all about work ethic- the Habs are no longer a country club team.

G-Man – JM is not the boss, in any sense of the word. He’s the coach. Given that the coach is easier to fire than the players, the boss analogy doesn’t work.

His job is to help the team win games, and to do so he has to get the best out of his players.

You can blame the player all you want but when problems occur repeatedly in his relationship with young players you have to wonder. Even MaxPac and PK got to see the JM doghouse. In MaxPac’s case I’d say we’re lucky he didn’t get traded for spare parts, or less, like Sergei, O’Byrne, Latendresse and Pouliot.

If Pouliot does well in Boston then it has to be the final nail in the coffin.

HFS72…
Yes, because heaven forbid a player who is under performing, error prone or unmanageable be told to shape up. Heaven forbid these well paid kids learn how to work hard or listen to the coach or improve their game. Heaven forbid a coach gives one of these poor unfortunates an inferiority complex.
Have a look at the names you listed. Who stayed and who got dumped?

I think with MaxPac, Cole, AK, playing a full season, we will see more 5 on 5 goals. We have more size on the top 2 lines and that will help. I don’ think 5 on 5 scoring is a problem for this team. I think scoring overall is the problem. Our percentage of 5 on 5 and pp goals is similar to most teams. Our place in overall scoring is not far from 5 on 5 scoring.
I do not think we need to concentrate on 5 on 5 scoring, but in scoring in all aspects of the game. Size will help. Having Markov back will help more.
Markov is able to play strong in different aspects of the game, he is versatile and is not limited to perimeter shooting to score. The biggest strengths of the ones we used to replace him were their shot, and that kept us more limited on the PP and during 5 on 5.
In the end the addition of a bit of size will help allow the smaller guys to move around, and having the guy who had a point in about 25% of our scoring in the last 4 years will help alot.
In the end though it simply comes down to Gionta and Cammi putting the puck in the net. Gomez finding a way to produce, whether it be by scoring himself, or living up to (or anywhere near) his assist capabilities.
Plus we have guys like DD, AK, Darche and Eller fighting for 3rd line minutes.
I think this season we will see a higher scoring team overall, without giving up any more goals than we did last season.
Can’t be anything but excited that guys like PK, Eller, DD, and MaxPac have more experience.
The only negative is losing Hamr. We have Markov replacing Wiz, but no one to replace Hamr’s 30 assists. Pk will produce more (hopefully) but can Spacek get the assists he did in Buffalo for us this season???

A few years ago I heard about Jacques Plante’s great granddaughter (turns out it’s his niece) was a playboy model from Ontario. When I read the Nathan Horton story and saw his wife’s name I realized it was her. She’s been in several layouts for playboy and beer commercials.

I wonder if Nigel Dawes regrets signing that deal with the KHL team he is going to. Given he is born and raised in Wpg., I suspect that team would have been very interested in signing him. Especially given they just signed Maxwell. I wouldn’t be surprised if next year we see him plying his trade in his hometown.

Given how slow it is for anything Habs related wouldn’t this be a good time for the I.T. dept. which runs this site (I am guessing you have a roomfull of computer geeks, a computerized sweat shop) could do a little maintenance?

Many people have requested that the “new” tags be brought back to the comments thread. Makes it so much easier for us to find follow-ups to our all important questions and comments.

Also have been some requests for the Thumbs up to be brought back. I do recognize asking for both is kind of like asking for a Habs cup victory and Jeremy Jacobs going bankrupt with the Bruins organization sold off to the good people of Glendale. Perhaps a little dare I say “referendum” could be held giving us the choice of which option could be given to us. I read through the HIO charter (written in 67 coincidentally) and we are alllowed to request such changes in any year in which the Bruins with the Cup.

Mr. Boone, is it possible to have such changes occur, or am I just another hamster spinning its wheel in the HIO Death Chamber.

On a lighter side, I can live much easier with a picture of Tim Horton than any pic. of Jack Fecal Matter Edwards or any other member of that Bruin community.

I also have access to pictures of past Hab’s players, if you want I can send the link and we can just as easily put up pictures of past Habs conjuring up wonderful memories.

Thanks for taking the time to consider this.

Cheers!

P.S. Boone, what is happening with all of our Steeler players this off season?

Thanks Mike! Appreciate knowing you guys are reviewing this stuff. Vegas eh, uhhmmm ya well at least you gave it some thought in advance! Hey if you guys are have Server Storage Demand issues, give me an email, I may be able to help out.

This was suggested before, but perhaps some sort of forum functionality would be a nice addition so that comments on articles could be used to.. actually comment on articles… and trade rumors, the size issue, konopka yes or no and those sorts of topics could have their own threads…

Anothing suggestion for HIO would be to add a sort of Tweet Box on the main page that would show the latest tweets from Habs players and Montreal media. I myself already use Twitter, but many here do not, and I think it would be very useful for those members.

That is an interesting article by Larry Brooks. he’s a far better sportswriter than any of the jackasses who write for the Boston Globe, but that’s why they’re in a backwater and he’s in the Big Apple.

That Lamoriello is trying to persuade Lemaire to come back is the only explanation for why the Devils still don’t have a coach.