I know the post is old but I read the whole thing and I'm going to comment. I'm not pushing you off the guard. But take this from someone who is now 40 years old and often looks back on life and thinks of the roads I should have taken. Again not pushing you off the guard at all. It has it's place for everyone but I have found the longer any solider stays in the more they regret some of their choices. Look at your life now and look at the economy. As a guard solider you will take 25% of your highest rank held pay in a retirement. Compared to 50% of active service. The longer active time you complete, the higher your retirement % becomes for active service. Realisticly if you are motivated and stay on track in the active service you can retire in 20 years making serious bank for the rest of your life. Look over the pay scales. Again if you stay in for 20 years and make O6 which is totally possible your pay will be more that I am listing as these are 2011 rates. O6 20 years basic pay is $9,222.90, monthly. This does not include the perks as you lose those when you retire. IE BAH. You retire with 1/2 that for the rest of your life. Plus you start getting the $$ as soon as you retire. So you can be in your mid 40's (which is still plenty young enough to get a great job with an O6 resume) and have mortgage payment paid for by sitting on your couch. Or a really nice car. I see plenty of Mercedes driving around my town with a "retired" military sticker on them. Or better yet you can complete War College and hit the rank of General. If you can pull that off, your looking at big $$ when you retire. I have a retired active duty 2 star who is a 2nd cousin and he pulls in over 500 grand per year as a consultant (military liaison) for general dynamics. Now when it comes to the guard you are going to be limited the higher you go. Example: In my state we have (6) O6 slots filled, plus 2 floaters. Meaning those two extra soliders should have or should now retire. But no one will push them out as it becomes a "good ole boy" club the higher you go. Now as far as guard pay. Let's say you make O6, your yearly would be about $15,000.00 not including your AT. With AT you can be safe at around $18,000.00 per year. You pull 25% of that but you have to wait till you hit 60 years old to start collecting it. The math is simple and pretty clear. If your young and already have on a uniform. Hit the active service and tough out the 20 years. You will be happy you did. Again, not putting down the guard. I love being in the guard and it has changed my life for the better, that's 100% for sure. But if I had to do it all over again or give advice to a young person who is on the fence. I would say go active.

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I know the post is old but I read the whole thing and I'm going to comment. I'm not pushing you off the guard. But take this from someone who is now 40 years old and often looks back on life and thinks of the roads I should have taken. Again not pushing you off the guard at all. It has it's place for everyone but I have found the longer any solider stays in the more they regret some of their choices. Look at your life now and look at the economy. As a guard solider you will take 25% of your highest rank held pay in a retirement. Compared to 50% of active service. The longer active time you complete, the higher your retirement % becomes for active service. Realisticly if you are motivated and stay on track in the active service you can retire in 20 years making serious bank for the rest of your life. Look over the pay scales. Again if you stay in for 20 years and make O6 which is totally possible your pay will be more that I am listing as these are 2011 rates. O6 20 years basic pay is $9,222.90, monthly. This does not include the perks as you lose those when you retire. IE BAH. You retire with 1/2 that for the rest of your life. Plus you start getting the $$ as soon as you retire. So you can be in your mid 40's (which is still plenty young enough to get a great job with an O6 resume) and have mortgage payment paid for by sitting on your couch. Or a really nice car. I see plenty of Mercedes driving around my town with a "retired" military sticker on them. Or better yet you can complete War College and hit the rank of General. If you can pull that off, your looking at big $$ when you retire. I have a retired active duty 2 star who is a 2nd cousin and he pulls in over 500 grand per year as a consultant (military liaison) for general dynamics. Now when it comes to the guard you are going to be limited the higher you go. Example: In my state we have (6) O6 slots filled, plus 2 floaters. Meaning those two extra soliders should have or should now retire. But no one will push them out as it becomes a "good ole boy" club the higher you go. Now as far as guard pay. Let's say you make O6, your yearly would be about $15,000.00 not including your AT. With AT you can be safe at around $18,000.00 per year. You pull 25% of that but you have to wait till you hit 60 years old to start collecting it. The math is simple and pretty clear. If your young and already have on a uniform. Hit the active service and tough out the 20 years. You will be happy you did. Again, not putting down the guard. I love being in the guard and it has changed my life for the better, that's 100% for sure. But if I had to do it all over again or give advice to a young person who is on the fence. I would say go active.

You certainly have brought up good points.

When you factor in these:
-Retirement essentially starts at age 60 minus the number of years you were mobilized/activated. Age 60? Great. You probably only have another 15 years before you pass away.
-Promotions are slow in the NG compared to Active Duty and the USAR.
-The NG's budget is screwed so even if you wanted to go to Hooah schools like Ranger School as an Infantry officer, your state may not send you. When Active Duty guys transfer to the NG with all their scary badges, you'll just be outclassed.

Basically, if the NG can't send you to schools, you have a civilian career that is extremely promising, and you've already tapped out the NG for education benefits, then the National Guard has outlived itself in terms of career progression.

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I'm going to take a "guess" on why they have not be able to retain enough mid-career officers: family. Deployments are tough, especially on families.

And education bennies, the ability to have a civilian life, etc. There are plenty of reasons to choose the Guard as well. It depends on the person I guess. Active was never an option for me, And I love the army. But the guard just is better in my opinion.
PS Polo- We have a bill now. This weekend I had drill and I was on ATRRs looking to see changes for my Soldiers that were all in pending status, and orders were popping up left and right for everyone. The money is starting to flow again

I agree with Polo it's mainly deployements. Hard to be an O3/O4 with 3, 4, 5 deployments, no time for family, education etc. But last I read they were trying to fix that issue with some promotions. I also think it might have to do with soldiers coming out and getting civi jobs. I know a guy who went back in last year as an O3, but he has 8 years left to get 20 active. That's a no brainer. But seriously if your in your 20's an active stint if not career is the way to go. But with that said, if your in your 20's and have a degree and a good job. The Guard is a no brainer. But life in the Guard is a no easy life. You not only have to deal with your command in JFHQ, you have to deal with GS directors to include the retired O7/O8 who now runs DMAVA or some other state command like HOSCO. It's a lot more politics than these young guys realize. Less rule bending in the Active componant which makes life a little easier. You meet the standards or you go home. In the Guard you don't meet the standards for years on end and you get promoted.

BTW Sir you should know what I'm taking about. We are both in the NJ Guard. HHC 50th IBCT S6. Gotta love that high speed comex we had last month. That failure was mostly due to our command not providing the soldiers with the correct training. That stuff does not happen in the active componant. You going to be at the June comex?

BTW I just want to say that even though my last post seems as though I am jadded. This is not the facts. I'm just trying to point out to these young officers who are on the fence. That the guard is a differant military force they may be used to dealing with from ROTC. Over the last 10 years DOD has come to realize they do not have enough man power to cover all the deployments. So they have turned to the Guard to fill that gap. Fine, that's 1 part of the Guards role. But what has happened over the last 10 years is a major transition. The Guard was set up to be a force to guard CONUS, respond to natural disasters and help in local states of emergencies. But DOD has decided to increase the role of the Guard and try to transition it to a tier 1 fighting force. A role in which NGB was all to happy to take over, mostly due to the increased funds it would get. I'm not saying we can't do it. But it's very hard to do with the funding and training provided and still provide our traditional local services. Again very political enviroment to be in. Lots of old school guys in charge who have never deployed and still hold on to the old idea of the role of the Guard. These current and ex-soldiers are in charge and only really care about meeting a tactical mission when the need calls for it. Yet not ever deploying, they really don't understand the tactical requirements and often times ignore the advice of seasoned, deployed, tactical adept officers and NCO's. Over the next few years that will change. You will see more and more right arm patchs walking around at JFHQ. But until that happens, things like our last COMEX will always be an uphill battle. Money given for certain training or equipment is often traded or exchanged for something else. Which in the end only hurts everyone. I think the younger officer is not prepared for this poltical maze. In big army, there is a mission, clear and to the point. In the Guard the mission is often two fold or more. And it's often based on poltical strength. Scary when you think about the lives that these choices can effect. The 50th just got it's warning order last week. It will be interesting to see from the signal side how JFHQ decides to spend the money they have recently gotten. I think this last COMEX should be a clear sign of where that money needs to be spent. But again all too often that is not the case. It's a mentality that once a soldier is title 10, big army will take care of it. Again I think it's a problem a young officer is not prepared to deal with. In the active componant, they do not have to deal with such things. Very stressful on a young officer to produce in the Guard. But produce with every very little support. Not giving an officer the tools to complete his mission, yet also giving him an vauge mission is only setting them up for failure. The active componant is not built or run this way. A young officer should think long and hard before they make either move. But they should be given the correct information as to what they can expect so they can make the correct choice for everyone.

Comment

I agree with Polo it's mainly deployements. Hard to be an O3/O4 with 3, 4, 5 deployments, no time for family, education etc. But last I read they were trying to fix that issue with some promotions. I also think it might have to do with soldiers coming out and getting civi jobs. I know a guy who went back in last year as an O3, but he has 8 years left to get 20 active. That's a no brainer. But seriously if your in your 20's an active stint if not career is the way to go. But with that said, if your in your 20's and have a degree and a good job. The Guard is a no brainer. But life in the Guard is a no easy life. You not only have to deal with your command in JFHQ, you have to deal with GS directors to include the retired O7/O8 who now runs DMAVA or some other state command like HOSCO. It's a lot more politics than these young guys realize. Less rule bending in the Active componant which makes life a little easier. You meet the standards or you go home. In the Guard you don't meet the standards for years on end and you get promoted.

BTW Sir you should know what I'm taking about. We are both in the NJ Guard. HHC 50th IBCT S6. Gotta love that high speed comex we had last month. That failure was mostly due to our command not providing the soldiers with the correct training. That stuff does not happen in the active componant. You going to be at the June comex?

That's probably why we have far too many jumbo dumbo Soldiers and officers who barely fit in their ACUs. You ever wonder, "How do these people manage to stay in the Army when they fail their APFT over and over again?"

If this draw-down in Iraq and Afghanistan go as planned and we are no longer involved in any more major conflicts, you can expect a lot of people will be handed pink slips. Eventually, you may need a Master's degree and some scary badges to make MAJ in the Army.

BTW I just want to say that even though my last post seems as though I am jadded. This is not the facts. I'm just trying to point out to these young officers who are on the fence. That the guard is a differant military force they may be used to dealing with from ROTC. Over the last 10 years DOD has come to realize they do not have enough man power to cover all the deployments. So they have turned to the Guard to fill that gap. Fine, that's 1 part of the Guards role. But what has happened over the last 10 years is a major transition. The Guard was set up to be a force to guard CONUS, respond to natural disasters and help in local states of emergencies. But DOD has decided to increase the role of the Guard and try to transition it to a tier 1 fighting force. A role in which NGB was all to happy to take over, mostly due to the increased funds it would get. I'm not saying we can't do it. But it's very hard to do with the funding and training provided and still provide our traditional local services. Again very political enviroment to be in. Lots of old school guys in charge who have never deployed and still hold on to the old idea of the role of the Guard. These current and ex-soldiers are in charge and only really care about meeting a tactical mission when the need calls for it. Yet not ever deploying, they really don't understand the tactical requirements and often times ignore the advice of seasoned, deployed, tactical adept officers and NCO's. Over the next few years that will change. You will see more and more right arm patchs walking around at JFHQ. But until that happens, things like our last COMEX will always be an uphill battle. Money given for certain training or equipment is often traded or exchanged for something else. Which in the end only hurts everyone. I think the younger officer is not prepared for this poltical maze. In big army, there is a mission, clear and to the point. In the Guard the mission is often two fold or more. And it's often based on poltical strength. Scary when you think about the lives that these choices can effect. The 50th just got it's warning order last week. It will be interesting to see from the signal side how JFHQ decides to spend the money they have recently gotten. I think this last COMEX should be a clear sign of where that money needs to be spent. But again all too often that is not the case. It's a mentality that once a soldier is title 10, big army will take care of it. Again I think it's a problem a young officer is not prepared to deal with. In the active componant, they do not have to deal with such things. Very stressful on a young officer to produce in the Guard. But produce with every very little support. Not giving an officer the tools to complete his mission, yet also giving him an vauge mission is only setting them up for failure. The active componant is not built or run this way. A young officer should think long and hard before they make either move. But they should be given the correct information as to what they can expect so they can make the correct choice for everyone.

That's one thing the NG had, and I say that very loosely, going for it. If you can't get funding and you can't promote quickly, then it has lost some of its major selling points over the USAR.

And it's funny that you bring up patch-less O-4s and above because while I am relatively new to the Army, you're not the first person that has mentioned that. I'm not sure if you heard, but there was supposed to be some sort of "officer convention" in Atlantic City a week or two ago. When I asked an O-2 with 8 years TIS if he was going, he said, "If I thought that my presence there would get even 1 soldier in our company a school reservation, then I would go. But it's not. All the -convention is going to be is a bunch of O-4s and higher who have NEVER deployed c*rcle j*rking each other. I've been to that sh*thole, Iraq, twice and a good portion of them have never even been there once."

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I'm friends with and have associated with several mid career officers around CPT and MAJ in the active component. Some of which are no longer active. Here's what theyve generally had to say as to why they got out or wanted to get out:

1) CPT is when they're obligation is usually up. Basically the equivalent of someone who enlists then decides to GTFO at the end of enlistment. Nothing wrong with that. That's a percentage

2) West Pointers.... The two that I know, both of which are out, were out for the same reason. They spent four years at west point being taught the army value posters...that dude in his arctic BDUs and helmet that's so old he's probably retired...the dudes on the zodiac crossing the river, etc... they're filled with enormous amounts of patriotism and values...more than what's realistic...then they hit the real army after graduation. While it's a good organization...lets be realistic. A certain percentage of people, deserving or not will get screwed, and nothing is like the posters.

They then realize that they are marketable. So...a slightly jaded view plus a valuable education with promises of huge salary leads west pointers to drop...those that I've talked to entirely separate from each other all said the same. I think they're crazy because the retirement pay for an active O-5 is amazing.

3) Ops tempo. Like everyone else has said. Family, home life, etc. It is what it is.

The guard is right for me because I already have a career. I dont need the pay, I dont need the benefits. As an O2 BAH wont even cover my entire house payment, but I want to serve in some way. I branched Infantry because I want a new experience and I want to shoot **** up. The leadership aspect will help my civilian job, but not as much as it will others.

For others the guard may be right for job training, education benefits, etc. Pick what you want. If it's not right for you, find another branch. I'd like to see a chance to get my guard retirement before I'm dead, but that probably wont happen.

Comment

BTW I just want to say that even though my last post seems as though I am jadded. This is not the facts. I'm just trying to point out to these young officers who are on the fence. That the guard is a differant military force they may be used to dealing with from ROTC. Over the last 10 years DOD has come to realize they do not have enough man power to cover all the deployments. So they have turned to the Guard to fill that gap. Fine, that's 1 part of the Guards role. But what has happened over the last 10 years is a major transition. The Guard was set up to be a force to guard CONUS, respond to natural disasters and help in local states of emergencies. But DOD has decided to increase the role of the Guard and try to transition it to a tier 1 fighting force. A role in which NGB was all to happy to take over, mostly due to the increased funds it would get. I'm not saying we can't do it. But it's very hard to do with the funding and training provided and still provide our traditional local services. Again very political enviroment to be in. Lots of old school guys in charge who have never deployed and still hold on to the old idea of the role of the Guard. These current and ex-soldiers are in charge and only really care about meeting a tactical mission when the need calls for it. Yet not ever deploying, they really don't understand the tactical requirements and often times ignore the advice of seasoned, deployed, tactical adept officers and NCO's. Over the next few years that will change. You will see more and more right arm patchs walking around at JFHQ. But until that happens, things like our last COMEX will always be an uphill battle. Money given for certain training or equipment is often traded or exchanged for something else. Which in the end only hurts everyone. I think the younger officer is not prepared for this poltical maze. In big army, there is a mission, clear and to the point. In the Guard the mission is often two fold or more. And it's often based on poltical strength. Scary when you think about the lives that these choices can effect. The 50th just got it's warning order last week. It will be interesting to see from the signal side how JFHQ decides to spend the money they have recently gotten. I think this last COMEX should be a clear sign of where that money needs to be spent. But again all too often that is not the case. It's a mentality that once a soldier is title 10, big army will take care of it. Again I think it's a problem a young officer is not prepared to deal with. In the active componant, they do not have to deal with such things. Very stressful on a young officer to produce in the Guard. But produce with every very little support. Not giving an officer the tools to complete his mission, yet also giving him an vauge mission is only setting them up for failure. The active componant is not built or run this way. A young officer should think long and hard before they make either move. But they should be given the correct information as to what they can expect so they can make the correct choice for everyone.

This is all part of it and political mazes and bartering of funding and equipment is everywhere in one form or another. I work in my civilian job for an active duty MACOM and have worked for the Army for years. It's rampant in the active side too. It's not by any means a bad thing, and that's just part of it. Organizations will almost always eat their own to some extent. You're dropped on a treadmill...you either run or fall off. Part of this is being dynamic.

I actually had to trade quota sources in ATRRS for training slots a few years back. I needed my own personal slot for the antiterrorism officer advanced course, and I had two slots for the the OPSEC practitioners course. I bartered with another MACOM training manager and traded one OPSEC slot for my ATOAC slot. Gigantic big army systems are setup so it's sometimes impossible to project funding, but you're required too. Years later, when you get it, half the time the original requester isnt even there any more and it goes to whatever you need it for then.

The guard is worse off budget wise, but I think some of the problems are being inflated.

Comment

And it's funny that you bring up patch-less O-4s and above because while I am relatively new to the Army, you're not the first person that has mentioned that. I'm not sure if you heard, but there was supposed to be some sort of "officer convention" in Atlantic City a week or two ago. When I asked an O-2 with 8 years TIS if he was going, he said, "If I thought that my presence there would get even 1 soldier in our company a school reservation, then I would go. But it's not. All the -convention is going to be is a bunch of O-4s and higher who have NEVER deployed c*rcle j*rking each other. I've been to that sh*thole, Iraq, twice and a good portion of them have never even been there once."

I went to the convention lol. I was there friday night when it got cancelled but the dinner was still on. And it was craziness. I ended up staying to say hi to a few people and get my face out there, but left quickly. AGR/Technician jobs are VERY political in NJ so I'm trying to kiss up and get mine. But I agree it's nuts

This is all part of it and political mazes and bartering of funding and equipment is everywhere in one form or another. I work in my civilian job for an active duty MACOM and have worked for the Army for years. It's rampant in the active side too. It's not by any means a bad thing, and that's just part of it. Organizations will almost always eat their own to some extent. You're dropped on a treadmill...you either run or fall off. Part of this is being dynamic.

I actually had to trade quota sources in ATRRS for training slots a few years back. I needed my own personal slot for the antiterrorism officer advanced course, and I had two slots for the the OPSEC practitioners course. I bartered with another MACOM training manager and traded one OPSEC slot for my ATOAC slot. Gigantic big army systems are setup so it's sometimes impossible to project funding, but you're required too. Years later, when you get it, half the time the original requester isnt even there any more and it goes to whatever you need it for then.

The guard is worse off budget wise, but I think some of the problems are being inflated.

Nothing to do with the conversation part, but the Anti-Terrorism course was great. Real interesting stuff. I went to the basic and advanced course in one shot. It's given me a chukle everytime I go up to a base gate and see everything wrong with it. They preach you need to slow the cars down so they make curves, then you see a ghetto wannabe semi-circle thing that wouldn't slow down a bus let alone a car lol

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BTW Sir you should know what I'm taking about. We are both in the NJ Guard. HHC 50th IBCT S6. Gotta love that high speed comex we had last month. That failure was mostly due to our command not providing the soldiers with the correct training. That stuff does not happen in the active componant. You going to be at the June comex?

You talking to Polo or me? lol. We just had our preparation for the d@mn COMET inspection... REDIC. But so far we did well so it's ok. I'm not sure what's going down for june yet, I'm submitted for CBRN school and the dates currently conflict with drill. Even though it's at Ft. Dix and its Monday-Friday my new commander is hardcore about the "constructive" on the Red One and probably won't let me go.
Polo- We need to still meet up man!
SGTS6... You're invited too lol... Do you work FT in Dix?

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You talking to Polo or me? lol. We just had our preparation for the d@mn COMET inspection... REDIC. But so far we did well so it's ok. I'm not sure what's going down for june yet, I'm submitted for CBRN school and the dates currently conflict with drill. Even though it's at Ft. Dix and its Monday-Friday my new commander is hardcore about the "constructive" on the Red One and probably won't let me go. Polo- We need to still meet up man!
SGTS6... You're invited too lol... Do you work FT in Dix?

Indeed we do. As for the 50th WARNO, I have not heard anything about it. Then again, how much does a 2LT really know anyways.