Talk Wisdom's goal is to defend the tenets and values of Biblical Christian faith. We defend our Constitutional Republic and Charters of Freedom, especially when speaking out against destructive social and political issues. As followers of our Savior and Lord, we should boldly stand up for Jesus Christ in our present circumstances. He is our Savior, Lord, and King, and His love needs to be shed abroad in our hearts and in our world – now.

Sometimes I wake up at 3:30 a.m. and can’t go back to sleep. This usually occurs when I fall asleep too early; before 9:30 p.m. the night before. I turned on Fox News (before killer was publicly identified) and it was then that I first heard about the horrific church shooting in Charleston, North Carolina.

Excerpt from Fox website:

South Carolina police are hunting Dylann Roof in the deadly shooting Wednesday night at a Charleston church that left nine people dead, authorities announced as they identified the 21-year-old as the gunman.

Police immediately branded the shooting spree, which began just after 9 p.m. Wednesday, a hate crime, and released surveillance images of a white man fleeing the scene at 180-year-old Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church after the horrific incident, which left six women and three men dead.

The Last Refuge blog has two posts up that give a lot of information. Of course, people are also speculating about the reason(s) why this murderer did what he did. I sincerely hope and pray that he will be caught right away, put in jail where he belongs and ultimately brought to justice in whatever manner the jury decides.

One of the last comments in the thread (as of 6/18/15 at 7:58 a.m. PT) identifies the shooter as Dylan Roof, and is quite chilling regarding the possible motive of the shootings.

Donald Joy says:

June 18, 2015 at 10:39 am

Someone on Twitter posted that those are flags of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and apartheid-era South Africa on his jacket. Both countries in Africa where a white European minority once dominated and ran things productively, now whites there are massacred non-stop and their property taken.

This kid knew exactly what he wanted to do and why.

A more recent post at The Last Refuge shares additional photos and commentary, with commenters sharing additional links.

Another pastor from Charleston N.C. was interviewed (in the early morning broadcast) regarding the shooting. IMHO, it was unfortunate that he believes that gun control is the answer to mass shootings like this one. If someone in the congregation had a concealed carry permit and gun with him (or her), the perpetrator could have been shot and killed on the spot – possibly saving some of the 9 lives that were so tragically lost. Is it just a coincidence that most mass shootings occur in gun-free zones?

Prayers going up to God for the loved ones of all the victims. Additional prayers going up to God for the sake of that historic church and town, and that any demonstrations would be peaceful and prayerful. Haven’t we all had enough of the riots, looting, and additional mayhem brought about by individuals and groups that want to exploit tragedies like this for their own personal or political benefit?

Enough!!!

Hat tips to all links.

Update: According to this twitter posting over at The Last Refuge blog, The Clarion Ledger is reporting the Dylann Roof has been arrested.

The Clarion-Ledger

✔@clarionledger

BREAKING: WLTX in South Carolina reporting that Dylann Roof, the alleged church shooter, has been arrested.

CJW: …IMHO, it was unfortunate that he believes that gun control is the answer to mass shootings like this one. If someone in the congregation had a concealed carry permit and gun with him (or her), the perpetrator could have been shot and killed on the spot – possibly saving some of the 9 lives that were so tragically lost. Is it just a coincidence that most mass shootings occur in gun-free zones?

A concealed-carry permit is not required in Arizona. According to Wikipedia,

Arizona residents at least 21 years old can carry a concealed weapon without a permit as of July 29, 2010.[5] Arizona is only the third state in modern U.S. history (after Vermont and Alaska) to allow the carrying of concealed weapons without a permit, and it is the first state with a large urban population to do so.[6]
Arizona is classified as a “shall issue” state. Even though Arizona law allows concealed carry by adults without permit, concealed carry permits are still available and issued by the Concealed Weapons Permit Unit of the Arizona Department of Public Safety for purposes of reciprocity with other states or for carrying firearms in certain regulated places. Requirements for issuance include taking a training class (provided by a licensed third party) or hunter education class, submitting a finger print card, and paying a $60 fee. Applicants must be at least 21 years of age. New permits are valid for five years. Permits issued before August 12, 2005 are valid for four years.[7] Renewing a permit requires only an application and finger print card. However, effective December 31, 2007 the finger print card requirement for renewal is scheduled to end.[8] Arizona recognizes almost all valid out-of-state carry permits, with few exceptions.[9]

Note that date: 29 July 2010. That’s only six months before Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot (along with twelve other people), and six others were killed. That may have been in the minds of legislators when that law was passed—to prevent incidents like that. Has it worked? I don’t know; perhaps AZ police statistics can tell you.

So now you’ll have to ask yourself who’ll be the first to bring a firearm to a church.
IMHO, you should hold off on further speculation until more facts become known.

Arizona was just a reply to Christine’s speculation on open carry, steve. It’s reported that there was someone at the rally who was armed, but by the time he was in position to do anything, the shooter had already been subdued.

As for Root…he’s a johnny-come-lately. Just under seven years ago, some joker in Tennessee killed two people in a church with a shotgun (his ex-wife’s church, as it turned out). That was also discussed here. Root’s only claim to fame was the number of people he killed, and that he sat through the service with them before gunning them down.
See? It’s not hard to figure out.

Ah, my error; it was concealed carry, not open carry. But the result is the same. The guy who had a permit and a firearm was not able to respond in time to save the lives of the six people killed at Rep. Giffords’ rally.

”Chuck Norris makes a better argument against your viewpoint than I ever could GM!”
What viewpoint did I make? I only said that that one citizen with concealed carry was not able to stop a crime from being committed. It was you who said

If someone in the congregation had a concealed carry permit and gun with him (or her), the perpetrator could have been shot and killed on the spot – possibly saving some of the 9 lives that were so tragically lost.

I disagreed with your viewpoint, and I still do. Multiple gunplay in a tightly-packed area—such as a church—would probably lead to a lot more ‘tragically lost’ lives. But if you want to turn your church into a fortress, go right ahead. I won’t be visiting there anyway.
Regarding Mr. Norris: no doubt he knows of Matthew 26:51~52, which is also in his Good Book.

I don’t know if you ‘ever could GM’, but perhaps you could tell me how you could. Meanwhile, you should really learn how to use a comma.

Apologies for not using a comma, as well as for not capitalizing “Preventing Church Shootings.” At the time I was in a rush to post the link via my IPhone. For some reason, the “edit” button for comments is not usable on my cell phone. I have made the corrections now that I am back home.

As far as the portion of Scripture that you referred to goes, it is always best to read the entire chapter for context. David Guzik’s commentary on Matthew 26is a really good one. In the portion regarding Peter cutting off the ear of one of the soldiers, Guzik writes:

iii. With his sword, Peter accomplished very little. He only cut off one ear, and really just made a mess that Jesus had to clean up by healing the severed ear (Luke 22:51). When Peter moved in the power of the world, he only cut off ears. But when he was filled with the Spirit, using the Word of God, Peter pierced hearts for God’s glory (Acts 2:37).

In the preceding verses, Jesus had just gone through the explanation of what would happen to him. He also said that he could pray to the Father to call down legions of angels if he willed to escape the cross.

Guzik writes:

b. He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels: Had Jesus wanted Divine help at this moment, He could have had it. There were more than twelve legions of angels ready to come to His aid.

Obviously, Jesus proceeded to do the Father’s Will, not his own.

Jesus proceeded to fulfill prophecy. Guzik writes:

c. All this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled: With all power at His disposal, Jesus was in total command. He was not the victim of circumstance, but He managed circumstances for the fulfillment of prophecy.

Non-Christians cannot comprehend (or accept) the need that they have regarding repentance for redemption and reconciliation back unto God. They surmise the reasons for the cross of Christ as “foolishness.” They do not regard the power of Christ’s cross and subsequent Resurrection to life; thus they choose to reject it.

Rom 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, [fn] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

After all these years, Christine, you should know I wouldn’t use a verse out of context.
Out of anger and fear, someone yanked out a blade and cut off the ear of a priest’s servant. Jesus told him to put the weapon away, and then healed the victim (and was that ever mentioned to Pilate, I wonder? A ‘great multitude’ was there, so some of them must have seen what happened—but on this point Matthew is silent.).

Expressed in modern terms, isn’t that essentially what advocates of concealed carry are calling for? When people who should know better suggest teachers and clergy should pack heat at their workplace, isn’t the motive behind it fear and anger—and frustration? Isn’t fear, anger, and frustration the reasons Dylan Root killed those people in the first place? His alleged statement seems to indicate that.

Parsing the scriptures is an interesting diversion, Christine, but it doesn’t confront your claim or my counter-claim. Even on military bases, everyone doesn’t go armed all the time. That’s what MPs are for.

I’m glad you made the corrections, but I was hoping you could describe how you ever could GM, and what that meant.

Oh gosh, GM, of course you took the verse out of context! You used a verse describing an incident where Peter cuts off a soldier’s ear in protest to the soldiers apprehending Jesus; and then you tried to convolute the meaning of that incident to support your gun control views.

Next, you wrote:

“I’m glad you made the corrections, but I was hoping you could describe how you ever could GM, and what that meant.”

What? If you are joking, I don’t get it.

Didn’t the corrected punctuation explain what I meant? Obviously, I was stating that Chuck Norris’ essay better explained the rational for legal gun owners to be armed for protection purposes. Criminals do not follow gun control laws.

”Oh gosh, GM, of course you took the verse out of context! You used a verse describing an incident where Peter cuts off a soldier’s ear in protest to the soldiers apprehending Jesus; and then you tried to convolute the meaning of that incident to support your gun control views.”

Okay, fine. But it’s easy to be merciful when you’ve got 120,000 angels to call on.

”Didn’t the corrected punctuation explain what I meant? Obviously, I was stating that Chuck Norris’ essay better explained the rational for legal gun owners to be armed for protection purposes. Criminals do not follow gun control laws.”

Yes. I understood your explanation, and yes, I was joking. It was just fun to wonder how you ‘ever could GM’ as if it were an activity, like becoming a pilot or a dancer. You used to have a humor section at your old site; now I see you no longer have a need for one.

I agree with your last sentence…except that in many cases those who obey gun laws lose control, and someone gets shot because the owners are angry, or drunk, or simply careless. I’m not going to let this degenerate into a shouting match over gun control.
But I will ask you to learn the difference between “rational” and “rationale”. You did say you’ve worked in education, right?

Yes. I did work in a public school for two years; waaaay back in 1979-1980. But I was just a dumb, lowly, non-classroom P.E. teacher who taught silly games in the gym or on the playground. I also taught health and safety to elementary level (K-5) students during those years. However, we all know that these subjects do not come anywhere near the importance of scientification, historicalicity, geographicology, readin’, writin’, or ‘rithmetic…so there you go.

Oh, so there IS a sense of humor remaining! I like that.
In the bad old days of the late ’70s, whenever someone asked what I did, I just told them I worked for the Department of Defense; they assumed I worked at the Arsenal or the Navy Yard or something. They never seemed to make the connection between that and wearing a uniform.