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I’m also getting sick of how after every mass shooting someone brings up mental illness. We don’t have shootings because of mental illness. We have shootings because of white male entitlement, radicalization of bigots, and it being way too easy to get guns.

The thing is, Trump’s dad died of complications of Alzheimer’s so it isn’t completely out of left field to wonder if he isn’t also developing dementia. That said he was a shithead long, long before that possibility.

Trump’s dad was, what, 96? I wonder if he had a very long-drawn, slowly advancing Alzheimer’s combined with genes for excellent cardiovascular health. Trump himself seems physically reasonably healthy for his age, despite having reportedly unhealthy habits.

Amanda Marcotte recently argued that Trump’s incoherence can be explained by him being a congenially lazy thinker who, due to extreme privilege, never had to practice thinking, learning things or expressing himself. It’s a sort of cognitive atrophy from a lifelong lack of training your brain. Then again, I’m not sure if this is distinguishable from slowly advancing dementia.

I’m not an expert in dementia, but I’m the daughter of a man whose brain turned into metaphorical mush in the final years of his life. Like Trump, Dad had certain keywords he’d repeat over and over again. He lost vocabulary. It was like watching a former master poker player lose cards until he could barely play Go Fish.

ETA: Dad, fortunately, had never been a lazy thinker. Unlike Trump, he had a doctorate, and had to think nimbly in his vocation (pastor and later pastoral psychotherapist). I still don’t like thinking about the last 5 years of his life. But unlike the Trump family, we made sure he got the peace and care he needed.

It doesn’t matter whether he has an illness or not, what matters is whether he’s capable of doing the job. I would say he’s not, as demonstrated by how he’s a FUCKING FASCIST RUNNING CONCENTRATION CAMPS. A corrupt, easily bought, bigoted, mean-spirited bully of a man. Those things are way more important than whether he has an illness. Please stop trying to diagnose him.

Ordinarily I’d agree with you, but diagnosing Trump may have strategic value, inasmuch as it could furnish grounds for 25th Amendment removal of Trump from office. Getting rid of him that way might be like getting Al Capone on tax evasion … but it would be getting rid of him.

Of course, now that there’s an impeachment inquiry in progress, as well as an election coming up where his poll numbers look rocky, that might now be moot.

Might.

I have little faith in the electorate after 2016 and equally little, if not less, in McConnell to deliver the votes for the needed Senate supermajority. On the other hand, last I checked 25th Amendment removal requires only a bare majority plus the veep … and there’s a big promotion in it for the veep if he plays ball.

Diagnosing Trump has strategic value – for Trump supporters. It provides an excuse for Trump’s behavior so that people don’t focus on the effects of white supremacy and inherited wealth, and how those combined to create a monster.

It makes it easier for a more articulate white supremacist to get elected in the future, by blaming the wrong thing.

It also alienates people who SHOULD be on our side through casual ableism.

Don’t be a dirtbag leftist, based on the false hope of Pence doing the right thing.

In fairness, I just got back from a mini-vacay to Kingston (Ontario, not Jamaica). Very neat place, Kingston. I was there to help move a friend in to Queen’s a decade back, but didn’t remember much about the city. Going back as a tourist is a very different experience. The guides there know the history of the city inside and out, including old ghost stories and legends. There seemed to be a more concerted effort to preserve the old city of Kingston than there was in Toronto. Old Toronto is a city of red-brick clay, while Old Kingston is a city of limestone, and a lot of those old structures have been repurposed as restaurants and retail stores.

And yes, I did visit the infamous Kingston Pen, Canada’s Alcatraz. The tour was expensive ($35 CAD), but it is worth every penny to get the inside view of the prison that housed Canada’s most notorious criminals from the people who actually worked there. (The Privacy Act meant they couldn’t tell us anything about specific prisoners save a few who had consented to sharing their stories, but the stories they could tell were spellbinding.) If you get a chance to make your way to Kingston, definitely take that tour because I have no idea how much longer that facility is going to be there, having shut down as an operating prison in 2013.

Also read this amazing book about The Ward, a long-gone poor immigrant neighbourhood of old Toronto. I figured I’d recommend it to Jenora and other Toronto Mammotheers. It’s essentially a collection of essays about the community, its history, what happened to it and who lived there. You’ll see a lot of the nativism they faced echoed by Tories and PPC members today.

@Katamount:The Ward looks interesting. I’ve got a book on Toronto street name history around here somewhere as well.

Having lived a few blocks away from Reggae Lane long enough to watch the gentrification slowly creep westward from the subway station, with gas stations turning into townhouses and the rebuilding that’s going to follow the Crosstown construction… fortunately, some chunks of that area are already historical sites in the city.

And yes, Toronto is a city of red brick to a very large extent. Including most of the houses in my neighbourhood. And while people still buy houses to rebuild them, at least these days most of the houses have been renovated just by adding another floor, while keeping the original brick around.

I would love if we could get the entire administration to go, because every one of them scares me just as bad as Trump and some of them are unfortunately more capable and experienced* in government procedure.

*not much experience or capability, but that’s all it would take to be an even bigger threat than trump.

some of them are unfortunately more capable and experienced* in government procedure.

That was my fear with Pence. Pence is awful, but I feel like a) he would never win reelection because he doesn’t have the same personality cult and b) he would be unlikely to start WWIII, which Trump seems likely to accidentally start. OTOH, Pence is repulsive on his own and I fear for what would happen to LGBTQIPAN+ rights under his administration seeing what he did in Indiana. I’m not sure if he’s worse or better than Trump.

As the son of a father who (1) was a malevolent narcissist and (2) got senile dementia in his last year of life I can vouch that the dementia may impact lucidity, but it doesn’t change personality nor does it make the person some sort of vulnerable, helpless puppy.

My father was an asshole before the dementia and an even bigger asshole afterward. Heck, he was confined to a wheelchair, in his 80s and still managed to pick up a chair over his head, in a crowded restaurant, and throw it, because the table he wanted was already occupied by an 90 year old lady. Naturally I wheeled him out as he threw his tantrum.

So I’d like to echo the sentiment that Trump’s alleged cognitive decline shouldn’t be relevant to whether or not he deserves to get impeached.

@Katamount – I was in Kingston with my aunt & cousin earlier in September and we passed an impressive building. I was all, “Ooh, what’s that? It looks like a castle,” and turns out it was the current jail. We also passed the former jail, the one you took a tour in – it looked less like a castle, but the inside of the dome structure looks both fancy and forbidding. At least from the pics on Wikipedia.

On a lighter note, I recommend the restaurant Saigon Delights just off of Princess Street. They had a really good soup, not too $$$.

The book about The Ward reminds me of Africville in Halifax, which was demolished in the 1960s. Earlier this month I watched a short film about it called “Welcome to Africville” from 1999 (ooh, it’s awesome that I can find it online! I saw it at a small university event and didn’t think it’d be widely available.)

Congratulations! I hope it does function as a clean sweep of some sort. Thanks for sharing! I hadn’t realized what has been happening in Peru because Brazil seems to dominate the news out of South America. I hope your President can succeed in disrupting the status quo.

In essence, we already have two presidents in jail, one killed himself right before he was arrested, two more are on their way, and the presidential candidate, Keiko Fujimori, and leader of the far Right has been in jail since Halloween of last year.

Essentially, they were discovered to be part of several mafias, corruption, bribery, among others. Just now they pathetically attempted to impeach the president and appointed a new one, but what they just did has no validity.

It’s delicious because evangelical christians, like always, threw in with these people and so they’ve gotten destroyed at the polls because of their mounting impopularity.

And now it looks like the jailed ex-presidents are going to have 73 congressmen to keep them company :)!!

If actual doctors find Trump to have dementia, he should ve removed from office. But since his VP is significantly more evil than him, it’s not very important, and possibly a bad thing.

Before doing internet diagnosing, I would also remember that he actually have reasons to fake dementia. He would no want sympathy that way, but it’s a protection from prison. Hence why it’s important to see doctors for that.

Some radical intellectuals make the case that a revolution is due soon in the US. I can see that hapening, and if so, I would fear for US mammotheer safety. The Terror in France show how bad even a well intentioned revolution can turn.

Congrats! Although I’ve come to realize the far right never really go away entirely, they just go to ground. Always gotta be on guard for ’em.

@epitome

That was the one thing I missed in Halifax, the Africville Museum. Next time I’m there, I’m checking it out. Certainly suffered the same fate as The Ward.

@Rhuu

Ward Uncovered is also recommended. It’s essentially an archeological summary of the dig that went down in 2015 when they were putting a new parking lot in at Armoury and Chestnut and uncovered a treasure trove of old Ward artifacts and foundations.

RE:. The Fanta Menace. All anyone has to do is to watch any old talkshow appearance the man made 30 or so years ago. Some of them, I remember. I know he appeared on Oprah in the late 1980s. It’s available on YouTube.

There’s been a big change in his speech.

When I heard his speeches/listened to his interviews when he was running for President, I thought he was possibly dumbing it down, or maybe he was incoherent/inarticulate because he was unfamiliar with the subjects, or maybe out of his element, however you want to say it. I don’t believe that’s much of a possibility anymore.

I’m not diagnosing him, just making observations.

There’s an organization called Duty to Warn. Their website is http://www.dangerouscase.org. It’s worth checking out. These are psychiatrists who look at him from the standpoint of “Is he dangerous?”. They’re very firm about not making a diagnosis.

Yeah, agreed: there comes a point where sticking with “the devil you know” is just stupid, and that point was passed with Trump the day he announced the “family separation” policy (aka concentration camps), if not even earlier.

There’s also escalating danger the longer the same devil remains in place. As noted he’s been gradually suborning the judiciary, replacing people in the border patrol to convert ICE into a workable facsimile of the Gestapo, and ramping up the camps. Like a high grade tumor, if he’s not removed soon the damage he does will be irreversible and the patient will be doomed regardless. Especially if he starts transforming the army and navy. Right now we can expect that these are loyal to the Constitution and will support Trump’s removal, if that is effected legally. If Trump followers try to launch a civil war after said removal the federal armed forces will be on the Union side against the Bundys and similar militias on the Confederate side, and the Union side is sure to win. (Unless someone lets nukes fly, and then we all lose.) But if Trump can suborn the army and navy the way he’s been corrupting ICE and the judiciary then they might side with the Confederacy when push comes to shove.

Removing Trump legally will also get harder and harder the longer he can corrupt the judiciary, and the risk of the armed forces choosing the wrong side is much higher if he’s removed extra-legally … unless it’s the military that does that removal, having decided that Trump has become one of the domestic enemies to the Constitution they have sworn an oath to defend from such enemies. And then we have to worry that the military could be reluctant to relinquish power, having tasted it and with rationalizations ready such as “if we have an election the stupid voters will just elect another Trump; better the ‘adults in the room’ stay in charge until the economy is fixed or whatever”. And then you’re in military junta-land.

Pence doesn’t command the same respect among the trumpanzees, he won’t get away with as much as Trump has.

That’s what I thought. I know that if Trump is removed the party will be screwed for 2020 because Pence could never win reelection. He simply lacks the personality cult. I also think that since Pence is not as popular, it would be more likely for Republican senators to stand up to his agenda in a way that they don’t to Trump. The most recent events have made it clear Pence is very unlikely to be quite as awful as Trump.

Right now we can expect that these are loyal to the Constitution and will support Trump’s removal, if that is effected legally. If Trump followers try to launch a civil war after said removal the federal armed forces will be on the Union side against the Bundys and similar militias on the Confederate side, and the Union side is sure to win.

AFAICT the military already has been Trumpified. Judging by the fact that most of the higher ups in the military support him and the military parade he held, I harbor some doubt that the military would oppose his side in a possible war.

The whole thing or just the Air Force? That‘s been reactionary (and rather unprofessional), at least in part, since the Shrub years, if not earlier. The rest (with the possible exception of the virulently racist Coast Guard) has been dominated, AFAIK, by moderate conservatives who would much more hold truck with H. W. Bush and the McCain types than with screeching Tea Partiers, Trumpies, and Trump himself. Or has that already been changing?

If Trump was removed – And I still believe that’s a long shot, but no longer believe it’s impossible- I think Pence’s support among Trumpers will depend on whether or not they see Pence as a still standing ally or if they view him as a part of the “Deep State” that removed him.

@Dormousing_it: This is not against you, and I’m no expert, but the wording of the linked site raises red flags for me.

Well, at least part of it. “Societal health” I think makes good sense, but I feel that part of having a healthy society is not to write things like “impaired leaders [shouldn’t] rise to power”! “Impaired” how? “Power” how? The power problem IS a problem; it seems some people have disproportionate power. But take the “impaired” part. Suppose there’s a leader with ADHD who isn’t great at organizing time, does that mean they shouldn’t be a leader? No, but it might help for them to work with people who do have that skill, so things can balance out. That would be societal health to me: working together, accepting differences, not discriminating unfairly.

In that respect it doesn’t matter as much what mental issues or “impairments” Trump has. Is he doing good things with his job? Does he work well with people? Do the people who work with him do good things? (In the words of Miley Cyrus, “Can we have a ‘hell, no'”!!!)

With Trump, be mindful to ascribe autonomy and choice when describing his behavior. He is not “drawn to” or “incapable of avoiding” conspiracy theories. He chooses conspiracy theories, because he believes they benefit him personally.

and in followup:

If you find yourself struggling and desiring to remove Trump’s moral agency with words like “dementia”, remember: He was a cheater, liar, and crook even in his youth. He was around 50, for instance, when he allegedly raped E. Jean Carroll. No “dementia” to blame there.

For the record, I never thought to assign Trump’s policies, crimes, lies, personality quirks, conspiracy mongering, laziness, ignorance or selfishness on dementia or any other mental illness.

I can see how his accountability might suffer if he’s commonly perceived as stupid or senile (esp. more than he is) if there’s still no practical possibility of him being removed from office because of it. I can also see how applying the 25th amendment might open a very problematic can of worms.

I was thinking how Trump seems to often struggle with expressing himself in his native language, or staying remotely on topic when he talks freely. It’s not very bad as such yet, but what if it gets worse over time? This is relevant mainly because there’s an upcoming election for his second term.

If it does get worse, can it result in dangerous rash decisions or rash communication? Will it be increasingly embarrassing to America on the international stage (even if that’s just caused by general stigma on mental illness)? Is there much chance it will eventually basically incapacitate him, for better or worse? American 2020 voters should at least consider these issues.

Thanks Luzbelitx! If I remember correctly you are from Buenos Aires correct? If so, I can only hope Macri goes down next round of elections. But I’m also hoping the likes of Agustin Laje and Danon are jailed for spreading neonazism across the country and Latin America, in general.

@Lumipuma – To be fair, I wouldn’t be good with organizing crime either. 😛

Yeah, maybe I was ranting too much because of my own concerns. But I do think the office of president is (supposed to be) one where you coordinate extensively with others. If Trump had been a cooperative sort and if he were now suffering from the beginnings of dementia (I’m not saying he isn’t, I just don’t know enough to tell), it wouldn’t matter as much because others would be able to fill in the areas he couldn’t.

The main problem is the way he acts in general. I think most people here agree on that.

Yes, yes I am. And we’re working hard to defeat Macri on October 27 (almost there!!) and also his minions in the two most populated districts, the province and the city of Buenos Aires (the city is a tough nut but we’re so close to cracking it).

We’re also hoping a progressive government in Argentina will help our brothers and sisters in Brazil, who are also hostages of a corrupted State. And then, hopefully, we shall see the end of the “short neoliberal summer night” in our region as García Linera put it.

As for Laje, all I wish for him is complete oblivion. How such an ignorant and irrelevant individual became a celebrity is beyonde me.

Anyway, stay strong, don’t let your guard down, and keep showing each and every one of those assholes the door!

I forgot to add at least “buffoonery” and “vengeful pettiness” on that list.

I just waded on Twitter, reading people’s responses to Trump’s public performance yesterday. I’m sad to say ableist language was indeed rife, and not only in reference to possible dementia symptoms.

As for the upcoming election, it occurs to me that it’s not easy for the voting public to judge if a candidate shows symptoms of some health problem that’s likely to get worse in the next few years. I guess the best bet would be someone who seems currently sharp and capable of working long days – unlike certain incumbent and certain Democratic frontrunner.

epitome wrote:

But I do think the office of president is (supposed to be) one where you coordinate extensively with others. If Trump had been a cooperative sort and if he were now suffering from the beginnings of dementia (I’m not saying he isn’t, I just don’t know enough to tell), it wouldn’t matter as much because others would be able to fill in the areas he couldn’t.

Yeah, even though Trump apparently sucks in cooperation, his henchmen seem to be mostly running the show, inasmuch as it’s still running. Ironically, with Trump being so lazy and amateurish, he could be incapacitated by some disease without much practical effect. Depending on the disease, it could actually make him less dangerous/embarrassing.

The main problem is the way he acts in general. I think most people here agree on that.

Certainly, he should be removed from office because of his crimes alone. Or shouldn’t be re-elected because all of the above.

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