MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it. Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration.

Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives on Friday, as "shameful" and his foreign secretary, Luis Ernesto Derbez, echoed his complaints on Tuesday.

"Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall," Derbez said.

"What has to be done is to raise a storm of criticism, as is already happening, against this," he said, promising to turn the international community against the plan.

Some stretches of the U.S.-Mexico border are already marked by fences, but in some heavily-trafficked sections walls have already been erected by the United States, often using 10-foot-high sections of military surplus steel. Those sections, which typically run several miles, can be found in southern Arizona and California.

It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling the proposal has generated in Mexico, where editorial pages are dominated by cartoons of Uncle Sam putting up walls bearing anti-Mexican messages.

Many Mexicans, especially those who have spent time working in the U.S., feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy.

Fernando Robledo, 42, of the western state of Zacatecas, says the proposals could stem migration and disrupt families by breaking cross- border ties.

"When people heard this, it worried everybody, because this will affect everybody in some way, and their families," Robledo said. "They were incredulous. How could they do this, propose something like this?"

Robledo, whose son and mother are U.S. citizens, predicted the measure "would unleash conflict within the United States" as small businesses fail for lack of workers.

He said many Mexicans felt betrayed by the anti-immigrant sentiment.

"We learned to believe in the United States. We have a binational life," he said of Zacatecas, a state that has been sending migrants north for more than a century. "It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory."

The government is scrambling to fight on two fronts. On Monday, it announced it had hired Allyn & Company, a Dallas-based public relations company to help improve Mexico's image and stem the immigration backlash.

"If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico, it would improve their views on specific bilateral issues like immigration and border security," Rob Allyn, president of the PR firm, told The Associated Press Tuesday.

"I would expect more energetic reactions from our authorities," Soberanes told local media. "It's preferable to have a more demanding government, more confrontation with the United States."

Mexico has also said it is recruiting U.S. church, community and business groups to oppose the proposal.

And the government has stepped up its defense of migrants, airing a series of radio spots here aimed at migrants returning home for the holidays.

"Had a labor accident in the United States? You have rights ... Call," reads the ad, sponsored by Mexico's Foreign Relations Department, which has helped migrants bring compensation suits in the United States.

The sense of dread connected with the measures is hardly restricted to Mexico. Immigrant advocacy and aid groups in the United States are worried about provisions of the House bill that upgrade unlawful presence in the United States from a civil offense to a felony.

"It would have a horrific impact on immigrants right organizing and immigrant communities" in the United States, said Jennifer Allen of the Tucson, Ariz.-based Red de Accion Fronteriza.

The mistaken belief that the proposals are a done deal _ they must still be submitted to the Senate _ have caused "just complete fear and shock" among some activists and immigrants, Allen said.

The House bill, passed on a 239-182 vote, includes a proposal to build 700 miles of additional fence through parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. It would also enlist military and local law enforcement to help stop illegal entrants and require employers to verify the legal status of their workers.

Mexicans are outraged by the proposed measures, especially the extension of the border wall, which many liken to the Berlin Wall. Some are urging their government to fight it fiercely.

"Our president should oppose that wall and make them stop it, at all costs," said Martin Vazquez, 26, at the Mexico City airport as he returned from his job as a hotel worker in Las Vegas. "More than just insulting, it's terrible."

"It's good to know who hates you, and it's good to be hated by the right people."

Originally Posted By jvic:They can choose what we build on US soil? That is nice to know...

MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it. Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration.

Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives on Friday, as "shameful" and his foreign secretary, Luis Ernesto Derbez, echoed his complaints on Tuesday.

"Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall," Derbez said.

"What has to be done is to raise a storm of criticism, as is already happening, against this," he said, promising to turn the international community against the plan.

Some stretches of the U.S.-Mexico border are already marked by fences, but in some heavily-trafficked sections walls have already been erected by the United States, often using 10-foot-high sections of military surplus steel. Those sections, which typically run several miles, can be found in southern Arizona and California.

It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling the proposal has generated in Mexico, where editorial pages are dominated by cartoons of Uncle Sam putting up walls bearing anti-Mexican messages.

Many Mexicans, especially those who have spent time working in the U.S., feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy.

Fernando Robledo, 42, of the western state of Zacatecas, says the proposals could stem migration and disrupt families by breaking cross- border ties.

"When people heard this, it worried everybody, because this will affect everybody in some way, and their families," Robledo said. "They were incredulous. How could they do this, propose something like this?"

Robledo, whose son and mother are U.S. citizens, predicted the measure "would unleash conflict within the United States" as small businesses fail for lack of workers.

He said many Mexicans felt betrayed by the anti-immigrant sentiment.

"We learned to believe in the United States. We have a binational life," he said of Zacatecas, a state that has been sending migrants north for more than a century. "It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory."

The government is scrambling to fight on two fronts. On Monday, it announced it had hired Allyn & Company, a Dallas-based public relations company to help improve Mexico's image and stem the immigration backlash.

"If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico, it would improve their views on specific bilateral issues like immigration and border security," Rob Allyn, president of the PR firm, told The Associated Press Tuesday.

"I would expect more energetic reactions from our authorities," Soberanes told local media. "It's preferable to have a more demanding government, more confrontation with the United States."

Mexico has also said it is recruiting U.S. church, community and business groups to oppose the proposal.

And the government has stepped up its defense of migrants, airing a series of radio spots here aimed at migrants returning home for the holidays.

"Had a labor accident in the United States? You have rights ... Call," reads the ad, sponsored by Mexico's Foreign Relations Department, which has helped migrants bring compensation suits in the United States.

The sense of dread connected with the measures is hardly restricted to Mexico. Immigrant advocacy and aid groups in the United States are worried about provisions of the House bill that upgrade unlawful presence in the United States from a civil offense to a felony.

"It would have a horrific impact on immigrants right organizing and immigrant communities" in the United States, said Jennifer Allen of the Tucson, Ariz.-based Red de Accion Fronteriza.

The mistaken belief that the proposals are a done deal _ they must still be submitted to the Senate _ have caused "just complete fear and shock" among some activists and immigrants, Allen said.

The House bill, passed on a 239-182 vote, includes a proposal to build 700 miles of additional fence through parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. It would also enlist military and local law enforcement to help stop illegal entrants and require employers to verify the legal status of their workers.

Mexicans are outraged by the proposed measures, especially the extension of the border wall, which many liken to the Berlin Wall. Some are urging their government to fight it fiercely.

"Our president should oppose that wall and make them stop it, at all costs," said Martin Vazquez, 26, at the Mexico City airport as he returned from his job as a hotel worker in Las Vegas. "More than just insulting, it's terrible."

Umm, The U.S. is not mexican territory. If you can't cross legally, stay the f#%k OUT!!!!!!

"Our president should oppose that wall and make them stop it, at all costs," said Martin Vazquez, 26, at the Mexico City airport as he returned from his job as a hotel worker in Las Vegas. "More than just insulting, it's terrible."

Oh yeah. Hey Fox and Martin Vazquez, FUCK YOU! Stop us. I would love for them to escalate the situation. Lets get this little fight over with already.

Pompous ass probably best describes my feelings toward V. Fox and his obvious hypocricy about having a say in other countries policies. What gall to actually believe you have some say in what another country can do within it's own borders. I guess when you have led a corrupted and priveledged existence for countless years you'd feel nothing is beyond your touch.Can't hurt Bush now so f___ him.

ETA:

Lets build the fucker with subcontracted temp workers (with a high supervisory staff to assure quality) and get a few more miles added on both ends of that thing.

"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect". Steven Wright"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro". HSThompson"Wilson Turnbuckle will not see tomorrow". the Clique Mob

The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Originally Posted By Kihn:Pompous ass probably best describes my feelings toward V. Fox and his obvious hypocricy about having a say in other countries policies. What gall to actually believe you have some say in what another country can do within it's own borders. i guess when you have led a corrupted and priveledged existence for countless years you'd feel nothing is beyond your touch.Can't hurt Bush now so f___ him.

Maybe you have not noticed the U.S. has alot to say about what happens in other countries. He is free to run his mouth so just allow the room to look stupid.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Funny. I keep hearing how it helped quite a bit in the areas it's already been deployed in. This isn't the barbarian hoard we are trying to keep from sacking America it's a bunch of asses that know full well it's nothing more than a quick swim to aviod all the hassels of getting here legally. Just because it will not be 100% effective does not mean you drop your pants and bend over for them.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Would costs escalate to the tune of 118billion and rising in US taxpayers money yearly for the healthcare of illegals? Some may enjoy paying for the college education of illegal immigrants but I for one am sick and tired of this bullshit. The Irish and Italians came here and learned to speak english, they didn't demand bilingual educators. They didn't receive free healthcare, and most importantly, they didn't send all their money out of country back to their homeland enriching their countries economy at our demise. Build the wall and shoot anyone coming across.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Funny. I keep hearing how it helped quite a bit in the areas it's already been deployed in. This isn't the barbarian hoard we are trying to keep from sacking America it's a bunch of asses that know full well it's nothing more than a quick swim to aviod all the hassels of getting here legally. Just because it will not be 100% effective does not mean you drop your pants and bend over for them.

How hard is it to?

Buy/make a ladder?Mix explosives?Swim?Drive a few hundred miles extra?Slip between a force spread razor thin over a 2000 mile area?

Originally Posted By Kihn:Pompous ass probably best describes my feelings toward V. Fox and his obvious hypocricy about having a say in other countries policies. What gall to actually believe you have some say in what another country can do within it's own borders. I guess when you have led a corrupted and priveledged existence for countless years you'd feel nothing is beyond your touch.Can't hurt Bush now so f___ him.

ETA:

Lets build the fucker with subcontracted temp workers (with a high supervisory staff to assure quality) and get a few more miles added on both ends of that thing.

Prison Inmates Hard labor in the desert may be something that would make people think twice about going back to prison.

Have you hugged your assault rifle today?

"Getting teased is part of growing up. It's no big deal. Just tell yourself, 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but a .44 Magnum will tear that bully a new asshole!'"

"Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall," Derbez said.

I wonder if this means = we won't help lay bricks or dig the ditches for the wall?

"We learned to believe in the United States. We have a binational life," he said of Zacatecas, a state that has been sending migrants north for more than a century. "It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory."

It's all the SAME land 100 miles up or down from the border. The US side didn't get the good half full of magic beans, leprechauns and golden geese. If America started at the Oregon border, everyone else would still be trying to sneak in to work here. The southwest would still be as poor as the rest of Mexico. Corruption and Socialism = Tijuana, Rule of Law and Capitalism = San Diego, twin cities only miles apart but have vastly different in economies and standards of living.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Would costs escalate to the tune of 118billion and rising in US taxpayers money yearly for the healthcare of illegals? Some may enjoy paying for the college education of illegal immigrants but I for one am sick and tired of this bullshit. The Irish and Italians came here and learned to speak english, they didn't demand bilingual educators. They didn't receive free healthcare, and most importantly, they didn't send all their money out of country back to their homeland enriching their countries economy at our demise. Build the wall and shoot anyone coming across.

Did you read the posts? What your griping about will not be effected by a wall period. You must change the laws and reform/speedup immigration process period. Dims will not tamper with a big voting bloc(Latinos) and they can make the GOP look like racists when they try. If you want to do some goog convince 50 million to vote 3rd or 4th party.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Not the ARFCOM version of the wall.

Injecting logic is a lost cause on this issue, I know. I guess someone else is picking up 22Bad's slack on the I hate latinos threads.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Funny. I keep hearing how it helped quite a bit in the areas it's already been deployed in. This isn't the barbarian hoard we are trying to keep from sacking America it's a bunch of asses that know full well it's nothing more than a quick swim to aviod all the hassels of getting here legally. Just because it will not be 100% effective does not mean you drop your pants and bend over for them.

How hard is it to?

Buy/make a ladder?

Very. In fact illegals in border crossing stageing areas are usually flat broek. They will often rent a bucket to wash windows in the hopes of making a couple bucks a week while they waite to cross. buying a ladder is impossible to them.

Mix explosives?Swim?Drive a few hundred miles extra?

Most cross on foot. carrying their belongings in used burlap fruit bags and water in used bleach or soda jugs.

I deal with illegal every day. They do not fear being deported becuase they can simply walk back. What they do fear is being deported with no money in their pocket. Illegal gets deported with 7 or 8 bucks in his pocket you will see him again soon. If he gets deported with no money he will probably die in TJ.

Someone explain something to me. In texas, is it not legal, to shoot a tresspasser? Why are more land owners not shooting these guys? If it's legal, I cannot fathom why you wouldn't do it as a defense of the United States and it's economy. If it is illegal, I obviously understand. Other wise, skin them smokewagons and go to work. BTW, IF it is legal, and any border area landowners with problems with shooting them are around, I'm available for hire to handle your security work.

ETA. I don't think this post violates the CoC if it does please accept my sincerest apologies and I'll trash it.

If you look at someone long enough, you discover their humanity.

I don't think cows have....... Jesus Dusty what kind of cows do you have in AR?

"Now....Aint that Ironic" Ice Cube in Torque after hanging a white dude.

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them. The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Funny. I keep hearing how it helped quite a bit in the areas it's already been deployed in. This isn't the barbarian hoard we are trying to keep from sacking America it's a bunch of asses that know full well it's nothing more than a quick swim to aviod all the hassels of getting here legally. Just because it will not be 100% effective does not mean you drop your pants and bend over for them.

How hard is it to?

Buy/make a ladder?

Very. In fact illegals in border crossing stageing areas are usually flat broek. They will often rent a bucket to wash windows in the hopes of making a couple bucks a week while they waite to cross. buying a ladder is impossible to them.

Mix explosives?Swim?Drive a few hundred miles extra?

Most cross on foot. carrying their belongings in used burlap fruit bags and water in used bleach or soda jugs.

I deal with illegal every day. They do not fear being deported becuase they can simply walk back. What they do fear is being deported with no money in their pocket. Illegal gets deported with 7 or 8 bucks in his pocket you will see him again soon. If he gets deported with no money he will probably die in TJ.

Well then there's the solution. Aprehend them, take their $6-$7, and send them back penniless!

Just remember, paranoia is your friend, but you have to keep an eye on it.

"Go back to your basketweaving class and stop listnening to the BBC" - postpostban

Originally Posted By Mattl:The wall is feelgood bullshit legislation and if it is built will not fix the problem. Boots on the ground must be there not enough exist nor will they also seizure by imEminent domain will be another problem. Emplaced structures do not work without people to man them.

If you don't have men on the hill, it's not yours.

Fixed it for ya

The wall is a waste of money. Their would be only a partial barricade, said barricade will be passable to anyone with resourcefulness, no orders to fire will ever be issued and mines or automated defenses will not be used and if they were still require massive maintainence and staffing.

Even some attempt is better than what we have now

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble - Kharn