What is Rape mark II

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1. It is rape if you were too drunk to have control and somebody took advantage.

2. The absence of "no" does not necessarily mean you were not raped. What could indicate "no" more clearly than tears or expressions of fear or disgust?

3. It is rape if somebody uses their weight to hold you down.

This can often happen in an "ambushing" way; he suddenly just rolls on you and presses down; many women feel so overpowered by this stage that they cannot say no.

Still rape, as far as I'm concerned. And as far as the perpetrator is concerned too; they know a lot more than they let on about what they are doing. "Ambush" attacks that don't give you a chance to say no are a common tactic; I know of a woman whose partner routinely grabbed and sodomized her as she stepped out of the shower. "No" is immaterial here.

4. It is rape if you cease to struggle or say no after a point because it's indicated that it would be pointless.

5. And in my opinion, it is rape if you state that you do not like a certain act, but your sexual partner just does it anyhow on this or subsequent occasions of sexual encounter. You should only need to express that you don't want to do a thing once.

6. It is rape if you have initially said yes, but then withdraw consent later and he proceeds. People of both sexes change their mind all the time and wish to stop intercourse; this should be respected.

I've seen a few sisters here who blame themselves because they went into their rapist's bedroom or allowed him into theirs (this was a pet self-blame factor of mine).

It doesn't matter if you were stark naked and snogging the face off eachother, if you change your mind that's it. Your body, your choice.

7. It is still rape if you dated the offender after the fact. This is often due to confusion or denial. But it doesn't make rape metamorphose magically into non-rape.

The same is true if you had enjoyable sexual encounters with the offender before, between or after acts of rape.

9. It is still rape if he tells you he loves you 5 minutes after committing it. The same is true if you have love-feelings for him. Your love has been betrayed.

It is common for a woman to feel so confused and vulnerable after sexual assault that she will accept comfort from the violator himself. Some rapists use this as a form of manipulation.

10. There is nothing wrong with saying "no" which means "not now". Plans for future intercourse don't mean that you wanted or deserved to be raped. Since when did sexual attraction become a rapeable offence?

11. If you are in a violent relationship and your partner commonly demands sex after a beating and you submit because you know he will hurt you again if you refuse, it is rape. The threat does not have to be uttered; you have a reasonable basis for that belief and he knows it.

12. It is rape if you are refused to the right to sleep until you submit. Sleep deprivation is a recognized method of torture.

13. It is till rape if there were other people in close proximity and you didn't scream. There can be many good reasons for this; survival is one of them.

13. Under certain circumstances, it is rape if your partner waits until you are sleeping to have intercourse. This might differ if there is an understanding that you don't mind.

14. If you played mock-domination games with a lover, or in pillow-talk you confess to having "rape-fantasies" (which usually differ from the reality so much it's not even funny) this does not translate to him having the right to actually rape you. I say this because I played just such games with a partner/rapist, and for many years thought that this must have given him the message I "wanted" to be raped. Games permit choice, rape does not.'

15. S.K. makes the point further down that it is rape if you were not in a position to understand the nature of the act. That would include the sexual use of somebody in a psychotic state.

16. "Rape by stealth" is a concept written about by Australian feminist Anne Summers in her book "Damned Whores and God's Police". While not recognized legally (and who cares) I think it merits a place here. Rape by stealth is sex under false pretences; i.e. the old "I'll still respect you in the morning if you put out, don't you know how much I love you baby?" If the girl/woman knew the true state of play i.e. that she won't see him for dust in the morning, in all likelihood she would not have consented. I would agree that the creation of a false agenda to get sex is a form of rape. And again, it's victims are often incredibly hurt by it.

17. Telling you that it (sex) can be done "your way" or "his way" means, "give it to me peacefully or I'll rape you". But there is actually no choice being offered. It is sex under threat and it is rape.

18. Pressure applied to your head or neck to get you to perform oral sex is rape. Many people accept this as truth if it is done by a stranger, but think it's acceptable if it's done by a date or established sexual partner. It isn't.

It does not matter that you didn't have your head beaten in. More often than not, victims are not violently battered.

Some incidents which might not be rape are still clearly abusive; expecting and demanding sex when you are tired or ill, upset or just plain not horny.

Nagging, cajoling, sulking, or threatening to leave you or sleep with someone else in order to have sex is abusive.

What somebody is doing here is playing on your fears and insecurities to get sex. It is a close neighbour of rape, and women justly feel violated by it.

Withdrawal of affection for refusal of sex can make a woman feel as if her only value is sexual, and like rape, it also does not see a woman as having a right to choice.

It's scary to consider that abusively coercive tactics like these, while not criminal in adulthood, are often employed by perpetrators of child sexual abuse and are criminal i.e. "if you don't let me touch you I won't love you anymore".

Rape and abusive coercion are quite different from situations where consent is actually cared about.

I hope this helps the sisters faced with painful issues that make them question their violations, and who cannot heal because they feel they didn't "do enough".

Perhaps it's the responsibilities abdicated by the offenders that these questions should be directed to.

In fact, from the horse's mouth we have a statement from a perpetrator who "woke up":Carl Campbell, director of Housing at Drew University USA is quoted in Robin Warshaw's book "I Never Called it Rape" (1994, p 165) as saying (after a period of soul-searching): "I identified myself as an acquaintance rapist....I didn't knock anybody down, I didn't say "If you don't do this I'll twist your arm"....but I can remember perfectly overpowering people in the persuasive way we (men) do: we lay on top of you and you can't move. I can remember lying and creating all kinds of scenarios and never asking for consensual sex. You know, not caring what happens the next day or having that person feel uncomfortable or unsettled about what had happened".

Sounds like rape to me!

And there is no "maybe" or "sort of" rape.

The date-rapist pressing on you in the back of his car, or the husband who won't let you sleep intend exactly the same outcome as the violent knife-wielding stranger, and no more is consent an issue for any of these parties. They just use different methods.

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Guest

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Guest

I'm humbled and glad to have helped. There are experinces in my own life that I would have seen as not "real" rape for a long time, but now I do without equivocation. It's extremely painful when something hurts so badly, to keep asking yourself if you are making too much out of nothing.

And I chewed it over a bit more and have made a few editings for anyone interested--I had to write in a rush yesterday as I had the opportunity of 24 child-free hours away; wasn't going to pass that one up!

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I'm just about shaking right now. I never really thought things that happened to me weren't 'really that bad' but I could answer yes to almost every single one of the things listed and one person did almost all of them. The one he didn't do someone else did with hard wiskey & beer until I just didn't care. And they are both out walking the street. Thank you for posting that.

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Rachel26

That made me so sad, but I suppose it is true. I'm still having a hard time acknowledging to myself that what happened wasn't okay even though it most certainly wasn't consensual, and it made me very frightened and unhappy. I just think that I bear at least some of the responsibility for what happened. And it's easier to think that it was just a misunderstanding (maybe he thought I WANTED him to put that pillow over my face? Maybe he thought I was crying for some other reason?)- after all,who wants to believe that anyone could hate them enough to rape them? It's such a humiliating thing to have to admit to.

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Thank you for this thread. When I got to the one about him raping you while you are sleeping I just immediately put my hand over my mouth so I would not scream. I have a hard time not taking the blame.

Rachel26- I think you said it so well when you said "Who wants to believe that anyone could hate them enough to rape them. Wow, that is very powerful. And that is how I feel. Why did he rape me? I know it is a power thing but he is 6'6 and 330 pounds I am 5'5 and well much smaller than him. Like I was really a struggle! Especially when I was dead asleep and told him right before I went to sleep I was not interested.

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6. It is rape if you have initially said yes, but then withdraw consent later and he proceeds. People of both sexes change their mind all the time and wish to stop intercourse; this should be respected.

I never though of this particulare incidence of my with another man, to be a rape, But if your right I need to rethink things. I acceped it at first, then started to cry and asked him to stop, and get off of me, he did but at his convenience, what i mean is untill he finished, which wasnt long, but i asked him to stop and he didnt. I have never ever thought of that as a rape. The reason i stoped was because it was the first time i had sex after remembering about the sexual abuse i experanced as a child and i just wasnt ready.

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pixie, if someone is no longer a member, or it is a VERY old post, your sig and member title will show up as theirs. I saw my own, also.

((((((Louise)))))))

I don't know why I have never read this before, but something told me to read it today, and after some recent incidents, I REALLY needed it. "4. It is rape if you cease to struggle or say no after a point because it's indicated that it would be pointless." I needed to hear that SOOO much. I have doubted myself so much for that... I mean, I DID say yes to him, right? I did give in... but only after saying no at least 20 times. Thank you. I still doubt a little, but this was very awesome validation... something I so very deperately needed.

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Guest

This is my first post, I just registered tonight and reading some of the posts. Thank you so very much for writing that. I have struggled with several of those and kept going back and forth of was it or wasn't it..and knowing that it was, but since it wasn't a violent attack, etc. Just, reading all that, gave me validation, that, it doesn't have to be a violent attack. I said no, and he didn't respect that. And then I wondered if it could still be considered rape because I stayed with him. Reading all of those really really helped me, so thank you for taking the time and writing that. It's much appreciated. I am so glad I found this board. Other boards people were cruel and said hurtful things to people that posted, so I was reluctant to post a reponse, but I have seen how everybody has responded and everybody seems so caring and compassionate. To all of you, I thank you for being there and being kind to all...I'm glad I found a place like this where my healing can begin.

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Guest choirgirl

when I stumbled across this Michigan (the state I live in) law while doing a 10th grade gov project. it has brought me hope since then, because even if I wasn't rape, it was still wrong and he shouldn't have done it.

**T** btw, Mich. law considers "sexual contact" to be things other than actual penetration, though it seems as if they might consider penetration of anythign to be penetration...

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750.520c Criminal sexual conduct in the second degree; felony.

Sec. 520c.

(1) A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct in the second degree if the person engages in sexual contact with another person and if any of the following circumstances exists:

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(8. It is still rape if you experienced sexual arousal during the act. It does not mean you "wanted" it. For a greater understanding of this, go to "search" (see above) and find Pepper's thread "Am I the only one?")

I'm desperately trying to find this thread...you dont even know how important this could be...please please help me find it...the search button isnt working...