During the 80's i worked at a miners strike centre in Hemsworth. I used to work for the old DHSS.
I can honestly say that a nicer bunch of people i defy anyone to meet (The miners and their families i mean).

In times of great hardship, i lived and worked and socialised with them. I chose to stay with a family that was on strike - They looked after me like a son - ( A time in my life that i was very priviliged to share and experience their highs (few i know) and lows and through it all they maintained their pride respect and dignity ).

A dreadfully difficult and painful time for all the miners and their families - they were treated dreadfully by the Government of the day. I was proud to be accepted within their community despite working at the time for the establishment. A time i look back on with great sadness yet great fondness for the people. I have nothing but admiration for their struggle.

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During the 80's i worked at a miners strike centre in Hemsworth. I used to work for the old DHSS.
I can honestly say that a nicer bunch of people i defy anyone to meet (The miners and their families i mean).

In times of great hardship, i lived and worked and socialised with them. I chose to stay with a family that was on strike - They looked after me like a son - ( A time in my life that i was very priviliged to share and experience their highs (few i know) and lows and through it all they maintained their pride respect and dignity ).

A dreadfully difficult and painful time for all the miners and their families - they were treated dreadfully by the Government of the day. I was proud to be accepted within their community despite working at the time for the establishment. A time i look back on with great sadness yet great fondness for the people. I have nothing but admiration for their struggle.

The fact that they chose donkeys to lead them, and allowed themselves to be political pawns was their major mistake.

The battle between left and right in terms of ideologies was fought using them as cannon fodder - and they paid the price not the people pulling the strings.

So blame Mrs T if you must, but ask yourselves why the miners leaders played it so badly that even the other unions didnt come out and support them.

Would there be more mines open now if they hadnt been such a beacon of the left? Who knows - many made little economic sense anyway - but my guess is more would have survived if they hadnt been seen as a political threat.

I was simply astonished that the miners chose leaders so ill equipped to lead them. Leaders who were more interested in their own power profile than their members well being if the results of their actions are judged properly.

They were certainly targeted by the Tories in the 80's but ask yourself why. Why did they become such a politised force?

And why did the rest of the trade union movement effectively leave them to fight alone? They had no support. Why was that? Why would other unions ignore them when under a political attack?

Could it be that the everyone else knew the leaders of the NUM had handled it all catastrophically badly?

Which is my original point - decent blokes led by egotistical maniacs.

I am simply saying that the miners picked poor leaders and that helped Mrs T demonise them and destroy them far more easily than if they had been led by wiser men.

They started the strike at the beginning of summer after the government had ensured the power stations were fully stocked with a years coal.

The miners failed to gain any other union support before striking, vainly assuming others like the power workers would support them. They 'forgot' how they had refused to support the steelworkers a few years ealier - remember the steel strike?? That was just as bitter but the miners leaders decided to look out for themselves and left the steel workers of Corby etc to their fate.

I am not a rabid Tory or particularly political if truth be told - I just think that the miners backed a poor leadership and paid a very high price.

I think you will have to have a glance at the history to understand why they were politicised.

Mining areas always had a decent number of socialist and communist activists.

When cheap oil became available, the men who powered the industrial revolution and heated our homes were treated appallingly. Remember, so many miners fought in the war that the government had to conscribe many thousands to do their work.

Wages were low, conditions bad and the people in charge didn't seem to think they owed anything to the miners.

So, not surprising that when oil prices quadrupled, the miners decided to seek a decent level of income.

Their leader at the time, Joe Gormely was a polital arselicker and a moderate. Scargill came to the fore as he organised and won the battle by militant action. Otherwise the NUM leadership would have sold the miners out.

Neither the leaders of the Labour party or Thatcher ever forgave Scargill and those miners.

I am sure there are many books that will explain it better than I can.

Fair enough Ray - you believed in what you were fighting for and paid a full price. Hindsight will show that many of the mines should have been saved to protect our strategic fuel supplies, especially once Russia starts to mess us around with its gas supplies.

But it doesnt detract from the point that Sir Arthur managed to lose all public and political sympathy and lost the battle for you. He made it to easy for Maggie. That is poor leadship - it was a strike you could have won with just a bit of support from the other unions - why couldnt he get that?

PS I fully accept it was a battle that would have happened one day because of what the miners did to Heath in the 70's - I just think you could have won it with better leaders. Not ended up being crushed and battered and allowing Mrs T to go on and leave the legacy she did.

You could have stopped her but you failed. You failed because of your leaders not your courage or convictions IMHO.

This is NOT a dig at miners in any way shape or form. It is a dig at union leaders who fail their members. Which ultimately is what the NUM did. (They could even be sure of their real support hence the refusal for a national strike ballot, let alone be sure of other unions suport). Yet they called the strike anyway.

What shocked me about the strike was the vindictiveness with which an elected government effectively waged war on part of this country, using the police as a political tool. Many of these communities have never recovered.

The first thing Thatcher done when she got in power was to avoid taking on the miners, instead she started with the weakest targets, the steelworkers. From there she moved on and upwards. It was planned in advance and written about even before the tories had Thatcher as leader.

Had the steelworkers won, and they nearly did, thatcher would not have survived.

I worked in the Nottinghamshire coalfield whitch as you most probably know SCABBED thier union . Now the colliery has shut sept 21st 1991 . Sad day 1.200 colliers put out of work they now regret the day they didn't join the strike.

"The miners UNITED will NEVER be DEFEATED." Actually they were defeated.

It would be more accurate to say they committed suicide, fighting tooth and nail against the inevitability of uneconomic pit closures. A leadership more interested in looking after their members would have negotiated a phased closure programme, but Scargill was more interested in his political agenda. This suited Mrs T down to the ground, as she wanted to remove the Unions from politics.

Ray, some collieries went on strike, but it became a national strike when Scargill declared it so.

The country didn't lose at all and we're certainly not paying for it now. The miners fought an unwinnable war and were deluded into thinking they could bring Mrs T down. This would of course have been undemocratic and whatever anyone thinks of Mrs T (not a supporter myself), democracy was preserved.

Democracy I don't think so. Thatcher, Macgregor,Police and the right wing media had an agenda to destroy union power whatever. Ridley had stockpiled coal after writing a report on how to destroy them. The whole thing was tragic and still makes my P**S boil. Don't come back with why Scargill didn't have an overall vote, he knew that those in Notts(fools)would vote against believing that their pits were sustainable.

Alot people working in industry and indeed other areas are paying the price now -not just the miners.
union strength has been eroded to a point of allmost non exsitance in some trades, which is very sad because just as the unions abused power now the managements/government are abusing power.
I work in the printing trade have done since 1981 since the miners strike,wappingand other defeats the workers rights have disintegrated.I work for a company now that I know I will never get another rise off in my life time and I am working much harder training up diluted skilled labour on just above the min wage!

I'm in comercial print radio I can honestly say it is an awfull industry to be in weekly sackings high turn over of staff and worst of all is the discrimination against anyone who dare ask for union representation-you don't last a week!the company I have the misfortune of working for wont recognise the union so if you ask for representation the union has to arrange a hotel to meet them at(you are in effect penning your resigation asking for representation)and as i said in the last post I will never get a rise again-do you think that is democratic progress?

No, I certainly do not mate. It was always the case that unionised industries provided better pay and conditions. That is why Thatcher and co. wanted rid of them. The 70's saw a rise in the number of employees seeking these advantages.

Even though the majority of union leaders were moderate and compliant, there was a rise in union action. After all, inflation was raging as the oil price rise hit the economy.

Much of the pressure for action came not from left wing union leaders but from rank and file union members.

Today, even is this 'successful' economy, workers are struggling to make ends meet. And should/when, a financial crisis arise, we could be in for very interesting times.

British workers are the worst in Europe regarding workers rights. The American hire and fire culture is now embedded.

There will in time be another showdown, and I believe another group of leaders will emerge from the dissatisfied ranks of all the downtrodden call centre types, rather than the messageboard Marxists.

the reason why the miners didn't back up the steel strike was that the agreement between the miners,dockers and steel unions was that they would support each other as long as the strike was not over wages.

the steel strike was over the annual wage increase.

if my memory is correct the steel unions wanted something like 5% while the government offered something like 2%.

in the end the wage settlement was something like 17% and bonus's that made nearly 20%. however it was heavily linked into job cuts and plant closures as well, but off set against big redundancy payments and job re-training schemes, as the carrot.

make of this as you will as it was nearly 30 years ago.

before anybody starts having a go at mititant steel unions, it was the first full national steel strike since 1929.

Where I work, 3 year ago they brought in a team of 'industry consultants'who graded us all then told us we were all getting payed to much(this lead to the sacking of anyone who spoke out 118 people lost their jobs getting government minimum redundancy)everyone left ,that had been graded as over paid was 'red ringed'meaning you wouldn't get a rise untill your current salary had been surpassed by your graded rate-then they brought in tri annual pay rises!basicly today I find myself training people to do my job that are getting paid buttons-when I have fullfilled my use they will pay me off-currently looking to retrain but its not easy at 41 with 3 kids and a mortgage!

Thatcher was a great advocate of de-skilling, the reason why we have a shortage of skilled workers today.

Just as in previous centuries, technology would replace skilled workers.

Led by America, all industrial nations have suffered the same fate. The rise of China has had a massive effect. Probably doing more harm to other less efficient third world manufacturers than it has on the West.

'I am serious, it will be the young and disadvantaged, those who really suffer from todays economy that will fight. Those who are unable to afford a roof over their heads.

Do not underestimate our young people. It is the youth that will revolt.

The liberals will be hiding behind their lace curtains.'

It's an interesting thought, radiogaga - and draws on the undeniable fact that split between 'haves' and 'have nots' in todays society cuts across the old political divides of left and right. The 'haves' are just as likely to be educated, well-off liberals as tweedy tory toffs.

But can you really see the young disenfranchised getting organised enough to do anything about this?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but a large percentage of the NUM did not want to go on strike?

In fact, when those who wanted to work did so, other NUM members threatened, physically attacked them and they family’s, and in some case’s MURDERED people whose only crime was that they wanted a wage for themselves and there families.

Now the only other political groups I know of where you died if you didn’t toe the line was the Nazi’s, Fascists, and Communists. Isnt it the job of a union to fight for its members and not just those with the same views as the blinkered leadership?

Let’s not forget the images of them fighting coppers outside pits across the country. The reason for this was because some of their fellow members wanting to go to work. They did not agree with the direction of the NUM, but were denied a voice or a vote and Scargill demanded a strike.

Unlike some of its decent members, the NUM got exactly what they deserved.

"But can you really see the young disenfranchised getting organised enough to do anything about this?"

I can. These things have a habit of happening when you least expect it. That has always been the case in the past. Not sure if we are quite there yet, however more and more of our young are disenfranchised from the economy. Housing is a massive problem. So too are the conditions that many are expected to work under. Boring jobs on low wages.

A lot of you underestimate how the youth of today are, they are no fools. Should something flare up in Germany or France for instance, we are capable of following.

ccole - at last a voice of reason. Although i was only 10 at the time, i recall visiting several Uncles who were miners at various Northumberland pits (my mam and dad used to take them food parcels, clothes for the kids etc during the strike). I can remember them slagging "king" arthur and his mob. They were desperate to get back to work, but didn`t fancy having their kids beaten up at school by union mens kids, or having "Scab" sprayed onto the walls of their house like had happened to their neighbours.

Incidentally, one of my uncles carried on working underground till Ellington closed in 2004. Since he left (with about £50,000 reduncancy money) he`s enjoying life more than ever, with a better paid job in the private sector. He wishes he`d left years ago.

CTC you're right. There can't be democracy through the party system unless the parties offer some real choices and alternatives, rather than slightly different shades of the status quo. I don't remember a time when politics has been this bankrupt and self-serving.

One - full of people who want the best they can out of life, working hard in the jobs they are in to give themselves a decent standard of living. Enough for a roof, food, and the price of a pint at the end of the week. Those who don’t believe the state owes them a living, unless they fall a little and may need some help and assistance for a while until they can pick themselves back up, at the same time helping those who want to help themselves but cant.

Two – Those who do fook all but sponge of the state. Those who sole purpose in life is to get what they can of the “establishment” and maximise and take advantage of its generosity to its full, milking and bleeding the system until they wont be a system left to milk. Those who prey that they will always be an “establishment” that doesn’t want to do exactly what the masses want. And the reason for that is because the “people” would then vote not to give the people in world two a fooking penny until they started to put something back in the pot.

For a lot of supposedly intelligent people there has been some crap spoken on here about the miners strike from some - Despite working at the time for the establishment, in the midst of it all, never have i felt so strongly for a group of workers than i did for the miners at that time.

I believe most of the country, not just Thatcher was so short sighted over the issue at that time

I salute the miners, their families and all they stood for up against the worst excesses of capitalism and what was called Thatcherism

NACODS (the pit deputy's union) had balloted their members and (if memory serves me correctly) 72% voted to go on strike in support of the NUM. If they had gone on strike the NUM would have won and Thatcher would have lost.

The weekend after the ballot result was announced Maggie bought off the leader of NACODS (Peter McNestry if I recall correctly) and offered him a knighthood if he didn't call his men out (I believe Thatcher explained this in her published memoires).

He took the bait and thousands upon thousands of miners and their families (plus thousands upon thousands of people who worked in support industries and their families, plus all the poeple who had small businesses in the villages around the pits) suffered desperately for YEARS because of the vanity of that man.

He sold the future of the coalfields and the people who worked and lived there just so he could be called Sir. Being drowned in his own blood is too good for this "man" - may he smoulder in hell for eternity.

It was a taxi driver who was killed. He was ferrying a strike breaker to work and two striking miners dropped a concrete block from a bridge onto the taxi. They said they had only wanted to stop the taxi. The driver's name was David Wilkie.

A big thing was made of this in the press and rightly so in some ways, however this was mainly because Thatcher made a huge deal of it. Less of a fuss was made over the earlier deaths of striking miners Joe Green and David Jones for instance. Strange that.

Do you think there was “less fuss” made due to the fact that Wilkie's death happened when he was doing his job as a taxi driver, taking his fare to where he told to go? While the other deaths you named happened while they were involved in an illegal strike and picket, during which many "supporters" had other political agenda's other than seeing loss making coal mines stay open?

David Wilkie was a British taxi driver killed on 30 November 1984. He had been taking a non-striking miner to work in the Merthyr Vale Colliery in Merthyr, South Wales when two striking miners dropped a concrete post onto his car from a road bridge above. He died at the scene. The two miners served a prison sentence for manslaughter.

The deaths of pickets David Jones and Joe Green continue to this day to be viewed with suspicion. Jones was killed in Ollerton, Nottinghamshire, by a flying brick during fighting between police, pickets, and non-striking miners[17], while Green was hit by a truck while picketing at Ferrybridge Power Station in Yorkshire

all i can say about the strike is that it tore famalies apart and made sworn enemies out of people who had previously been friends. i was much too young to understand the ins and outs of what was going off but my dad crossed the picket lines every day and im proud that he stuck to his guns to provide for his family. if i had been in his position with two little ones to feed id have done the same.
i do remember my mum being wary of going out beyond the village and we did have insults shouted at us in the street. we also had our window broken.
on a personal note, at school we didnt see any of what was going on outside. there was no bullying in class. not that i experienced anyhow. i was not old enough to play out beyond our street so i was quite sheltered from it all really.
i still dont understand the full concept of it all. it has been quite interesting to read the comments put up. however i know that i would do anything to keep my children in food and clothes and for that, good on you dad!!

Ray, I'm not knocking the miners, I'm just saying that ccole said some people tried to murder other miners for breaking the strike. True, they never did but it's clear there was violence towards other miners, that attack on the taxi clearly could have killed him. As it happens, it killed a taxi driver so that's alright then.

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For a lot of supposedly intelligent people there has been some crap spoken on here about the miners strike from some - Despite working at the time for the establishment, in the midst of it all, never have i felt so strongly for a group of workers than i did for the miners at that time.

I believe most of the country, not just Thatcher was so short sighted over the issue at that time

I salute the miners, their families and all they stood for up against the worst excesses of capitalism and what was called Thatcherism

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The miners were generally a decent set of blokes who were conned and misled by an egomaniac leader who knew he would never win and who sold his men down the longest river in political history.

Bottom line is we are all suffering because of it-look at Australia for example-state ran services/comodities work for both sides-thatcher ruined that and a million other legacies we should be enjoying today!