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Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Danzo made it clear to us as to why Sasuke's genjutsu didnt affect Bee as much as we thought it would, and it's because Sasuke doesnt control the time in which the genjutsu affects it's victim.

Having strong and large chakra won't do the trick as it was said, the chakra needs to be distrupted.

And as we saw with Bee, even tho Sasuke doesnt control the time in Tsukuyomi, Bee still got hit by it, and it was enough for him to loose conciousness in the 'real' world and caused him to faceplant into the ground.

This little time back in part 1 was enough for Kakashi to take the full effect of Itachi's Tsukuyomi.

I think it was a safe move from Kishi's part to not make Sasuke's as strong as Itachi's, cause this would have been way overpowered and troublesome to deal with, people would have complained about Sasuke 1 shotting everybody, and i can't disagree with that.

Last edited by insid3rkill3r; May 16, 2011 at 01:29 AM.

My child, do not hesitate, it is the path you chose after all.

Our suffering will only last an instant, it is nothing compared to what you will have to face.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

As i said, naruto doesn't need the kyubi itself to give him chakra.. He had already the access to get the kyubi's chakra in his own will.. Naruto doesn't need the kyubi to dispel any genjutsu, because he has already the access to used the kyubi's chakra to disrupt his chakra when he caught any genjutsu..

When naruto will be caught in genjutsu, it was his chakra that's flow in irregular, and when he used his Rikudou mode, his chakra will be replaced by kyubi's chakra, so naruto's chakra will be disrupted by kyubi's chakra and the kyubi's chakra will be the one that naruto used.. Does the genjutsu will just remain in naruto's body even though he replaced his chakra into kyubi's chakra.?

I agree on having strong and large chakra can't do the trick on escaping genjutsu, but the thing is, naruto has two different kinds of chakra, his own chakra and the kyubi's chakra.. and He can used that both any time he want in an instant..

In his fight against itachi, he can't escape on itachi's genjutsu for the simple reason, he doesn't have the access to the kyubi's chakra and the kyubi is incapable to interfering his chakra to naruto.. But this time it's different, naruto can easily used the kyubi's chakra any time he wants to dispel/disrupt his chakra when he caught any genjutsu..

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

I am not going to start giving any theory about how the hell Naruto is going to be able to escape from genjutsus because it exists so many possibilities that Kishi can go with for this case .
Who are the shinobis that Naruto will end fighting against?
Sasuke and Madara !

They are from the awesome Uchiha Clan , and by that they possess the incredible sharingan , that gives to them awesome abilities in battle . one of the most feared is their abilities in using genjutsus , that is absolutely terrifying ! Naruto in order to beat any of these 2 will first have to be able to escape from genjutsus. Cuz i can't believe that Sasuke knowing how much Naruto sucks at genjutsus won't use any. And also Sasuke is a very tactic shinobi , genjutsus will always be used by him.
So what is the only choice so Naruto can win against Sasuke ?
He will have have some kinda of way , so he can make useless those genjutsus.
I truly believe that Naruto is going to have something to fight against this, i just hope that Kishi shows that to us before we see Naruto fighting against any Uchiha

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by jorped

I am not going to start giving any theory about how the hell Naruto is going to be able to escape from genjutsus because it exists so many possibilities that Kishi can go with for this case .
Who are the shinobis that Naruto will end fighting against?
Sasuke and Madara !

They are from the awesome Uchiha Clan , and by that they possess the incredible sharingan , that gives to them awesome abilities in battle . one of the most feared is their abilities in using genjutsus , that is absolutely terrifying ! Naruto in order to beat any of these 2 will first have to be able to escape from genjutsus. Cuz i can't believe that Sasuke knowing how much Naruto sucks at genjutsus won't use any. And also Sasuke is a very tactic shinobi , genjutsus will always be used by him.
So what is the only choice so Naruto can win against Sasuke ?
He will have have some kinda of way , so he can make useless those genjutsus.
I truly believe that Naruto is going to have something to fight against this, i just hope that Kishi shows that to us before we see Naruto fighting against any Uchiha

In the torunament the participants don't know stuff about who they are fighting against. So Sasuke has no idea about Naruto's genjutsu problems.
Now Naruto can counter genjutsu with clones. I will argue Naruto not falling into genjutsu even vs Itachi. There is no way for Itachi to capture Naruto in genjutsu when there are some 50 Naruto's running about.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by xXan

In the torunament the participants don't know stuff about who they are fighting against. So Sasuke has no idea about Naruto's genjutsu problems.
Now Naruto can counter genjutsu with clones. I will argue Naruto not falling into genjutsu even vs Itachi. There is no way for Itachi to capture Naruto in genjutsu when there are some 50 Naruto's running about.

Naruto can't relay in such a way to defend against genjutsus . I mean it might be efficient but i don't think it is the best choice when fighting against an Uchiha ! Who says that before Naruto creates clones he isn't already putted under a genjutsu ? Someone like Itachi can do that immediately and Naruto will not have time to make clones to defend of it !
Kishi is probably going to tell us soon how Naruto is going to be able to defend from genjutsus , cuz using the clones as an argument isn't a very strong one on, on my opinion and Naruto will not be able to win against a Uchiha in a war that way and also he will not pass that way against an Uchiha.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Sasuke, nor Itachi, nor any Genjutsu user in the manga needs to know that Naruto is terrible at escaping Genjutsu inorder to use it as an option because whether they know it or not doesn't change the fact that they have Genjutsu in their repertiore, and they CAN use it when they want to. And if Naruto ever goes Rikudo Mode against any of them, the fact that he's stuck incapable of using clones pretty much throws the fight by guaranteeing his one chance at avoiding Genjutus was thrown away.

Not to mention the fact that Itachi's a Genjutsu specialist. It's guaranteed that he'll attempt a Genjutsu against anyone he's fighting. Multiple times if the first one doesn't end the fight too.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Timing does matter though. If Itachi goes genjutsu first, and captures Naruto, it is true Naruto would likely be killed on the spot. If Sasuke goes genjutsu from the start, and captures Naruto, it would immediately put Naruto in a tight spot. But if Naruto goes with clones before either can initiate a genjutsu capturing Naruto, the game is changed in Naruto's favor, imo.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

No doubt. Still, what are the odds Naruto will get a clone made at the beginning of a fight before locking eyes with Sasuke or Itachi, especially considering in the tournament he has no prior knowledge on their Genjutsu expertise?

With no prep time, it's an uphill battle trying to think up an instant defense against an instant attack. Unless that character himself has a super fast defensive option. And since the character in question hasn't shown any instantaneous aversion to Genjutsu... there we go. Or atleast, that's my argument for if Naruto reaches anyone with a strong enough Genjutsu.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by ninjabot

No doubt. Still, what are the odds Naruto will get a clone made at the beginning of a fight before locking eyes with Sasuke or Itachi, especially considering in the tournament he has no prior knowledge on their Genjutsu expertise?

With no prep time, it's an uphill battle trying to think up an instant defense against an instant attack. Unless that character himself has a super fast defensive option. And since the character in question hasn't shown any instantaneous aversion to Genjutsu... there we go. Or atleast, that's my argument for if Naruto reaches anyone with a strong enough Genjutsu.

Isn't Sharingan treated as a 'well-known' trait - meaning that anyone fighting Itachi or Sasuke would have a fair idea of its dangers?

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by bhasty

Naruto doesn't need the kyubi's permission.. He can used the kyubi's chakra in his own will..

It's not about permission. One genjutsu and Naruto will be knocked out. he won't be able to think and act fast enough to break himself free. That's exactly what happen to Kirabi, which is why the Hachibi had to step in and mess with his chakra. But since the Kyuubi is locked away where it can't effect Naruto's chakra, Naruto won't be able to break it.

Originally Posted by bhasty

Even if he was paralyzed, he can still used the RM to dispel any genjutsu.. and how come naruto doesn't know if he's in a genjutsu.? you should really stop on understimating naruto.. And how come naruto can't attempt to go into RM form to break out.? He has two different kinds of a crapload chakra.. He can used any of it at any time he wants.

If he was caught in a genjutsu in his normal form, can't he change his chakra/form into RM to disrupt/dispel the genjutsu.? ofcourse he can.. genjutsu affect to anyone to their senses, and the genjutsu will be dispel if the chakra flow will be disrupted by chakra.. So if normal naruto will be caught by genjustu, his chakra flow become an irregular, he can change his chakra into the kyubi's chakra in RM.. So naruto's irregular chakra flow will be disrupted/change into kyubi's chakra.. So genjutsu is no more..

Right now, naruto can fight anyone who can used a genjutsu.. specially an uchiha..

Once paralyzed, Naruto won't be able to do anything. That's the whole point of the Sharingan genjutsu, that it strikes and takes effect before the target can free themselves. Just look at what happen to Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Shi. Once the genjutsu hits Naruto, he'll be taken out and unable to do a thing. This is especially true hen Naruto may end up not even knowing he's ion a genjutsu. Both times Itachi used a genjutsu on him, Naruto didn't realize it until it was far too late. There's would be no way for Naruto to tell he's in a genjutsu if it's used right.

Originally Posted by xXan

In the torunament the participants don't know stuff about who they are fighting against. So Sasuke has no idea about Naruto's genjutsu problems.
Now Naruto can counter genjutsu with clones. I will argue Naruto not falling into genjutsu even vs Itachi. There is no way for Itachi to capture Naruto in genjutsu when there are some 50 Naruto's running about.

How will clones prevent aruto from falling in a genjutsu, unless ypou mean to say that there will be so many that the user wouldn't know the real Naruto from the fake Naruto, in which case is questionable. Unless Naruto acts to hid before he makes the clones, a Sharingan user would be able to follow the real Naruto through the clones. Especially the current Naruto, who tends to fight directly with a few clones at the start of battle.

Originally Posted by Boris999

Isn't Sharingan treated as a 'well-known' trait - meaning that anyone fighting Itachi or Sasuke would have a fair idea of its dangers?

Yes and no. The combatants will know that the Sharingan is capable of genjutsu, but they won't know the specifics about the genjutsus.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by ninjabot

No doubt. Still, what are the odds Naruto will get a clone made at the beginning of a fight before locking eyes with Sasuke or Itachi, especially considering in the tournament he has no prior knowledge on their Genjutsu expertise?

With no prep time, it's an uphill battle trying to think up an instant defense against an instant attack. Unless that character himself has a super fast defensive option. And since the character in question hasn't shown any instantaneous aversion to Genjutsu... there we go. Or atleast, that's my argument for if Naruto reaches anyone with a strong enough Genjutsu.

IMO Knowing Naruto, the odds are preety great.
But we wouldnt know that because Naruto has been put in genjutsu while he was distracted both times. Once was a suprise and the other was him being plainly distracted.

Naruto should be Immune to Genjutsu in both Rikudou mode and Sage mode (if he does it while moving or having clones) because he has 2 or 3 different types of Chakra in either modes that are continuosly flowing..

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Naruto doesn't possess different chakras when he's in those modes. In Rikudou form, he's using the Kyuubi's chakra and in Sage Mode, his own chakra is combined with natural energy to form sage chakra. So in either mode the effect of genjutsu would be the same as normal.

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Isn't Sharingan treated as a 'well-known' trait - meaning that anyone fighting Itachi or Sasuke would have a fair idea of its dangers?

Sharingan? Yes. Mangekyou Sharingan and the jutsu it employs? Nope.

Originally Posted by jaymizzo

Naruto should be Immune to Genjutsu in both Rikudou mode and Sage mode (if he does it while moving or having clones) because he has 2 or 3 different types of Chakra in either modes that are continuosly flowing..

No, not really. For one, Naruto's own chakra is still present in Sage Mode. He wouldn't want to disrupt his balance and risk disrupting his Sage Mode. Infact Genjutsu would literally disrupt his chakra because that's how it works, meaning either he's gonna run out of Sage Mode, turn off Sage Mode unintentionally (disrupting his own sage chakra), or turn into a toad statue from botched focus. Eitherway, he's done once he's hit with a Genjutsu. Or, there's a very slim chance that he actually stays in Sage Mode, but is still enfeebled by the Genjutsu. Eitherway his chakra reserve takes a kick in the ass.

As for Rikudou Mode, it's just kyuubi chakra, nothing more. Not some magical mashup of both Naruto and Kyuubi's chakra that changes the rules and makes a new form of chakra that gives Naruto an immunity to Genjutsu (does that even sound like it makes sense?).

Just alot of chakra. Now it's possibly he can use Sage Mode or Rikudou Mode's chakra and emotion sensing abilities to find people while he's trapped in Genjutsu, but it won't do anything at all to break him out of one. Especially a paralysis Genjutsu.

Last edited by ninjabot; May 16, 2011 at 09:47 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by ninjabot

No, not really. For one, Naruto's own chakra is still present in Sage Mode. He wouldn't want to disrupt his balance and risk disrupting his Sage Mode. Infact Genjutsu would literally disrupt his chakra because that's how it works, meaning either he's gonna run out of Sage Mode, turn off Sage Mode unintentionally (disrupting his own sage chakra), or turn into a toad statue from botched focus. Eitherway, he's done once he's hit with a Genjutsu. Or, there's a very slim chance that he actually stays in Sage Mode, but is still enfeebled by the Genjutsu. Eitherway his chakra reserve takes a kick in the ass.

As for Rikudou Mode, it's just kyuubi chakra, nothing more. Not some magical mashup of both Naruto and Kyuubi's chakra that changes the rules and makes a new form of chakra that gives Naruto an immunity to Genjutsu (does that even sound like it makes sense?).

Just alot of chakra. Now it's possibly he can use Sage Mode or Rikudou Mode's chakra and emotion sensing abilities to find people while he's trapped in Genjutsu, but it won't do anything at all to break him out of one. Especially a paralysis Genjutsu.
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Even though you may be right (which doesn't change my opinion either way) i dont see the need for the bolded part...

And i guess we should wait and see how this whole modes thing works out in the end when it comes down to genjutsu

Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

I was just bringing to light what it sounded like you were implying: that the rules of escaping Genjutsu just stopped applying thanks to Naruto having "alot of chakra" (which is something he's had since the beginning of the series). It didn't work back in the day, so I was curious as to why now it made any difference.

I expected to hear why having more chakra would make Naruto not need to disrupt his chakra to escape Genjutsu, and I'm sure that argument's gonna come up again if Naruto reaches a Genjutsu using opponent in the tournament. Adressing it now would save me a headache if we don't luck out and find out soon in the pages of the manga.