News:

Good day, denizens of OC.net! Per our tradition, the forum will shut down for Clean Monday, beginning around 9pm Sunday evening (2/18) and ending around 9pm Monday evening (2/19). In the spirit of the coming Forgiveness Sunday, I ask you to forgive me for the sins I have committed against you. At the end of Great and Holy Week, the Forum will also shut down for Holy Friday and Holy Saturday (times TBA).

Author
Topic: origen of alexandria: heretic? (Read 6022 times)

Is Origen of Alexandria a heretic? My understanding was some of his works were deemed heretical, but that he himself was not anathematized. It would seem strange to anathematize someone whom many Fathers respected.

In Protestant traditions Origen sometimes is referenced, especially his theodicy. And he's also sometimes used by the more liberally minded to point out the place of allegory in early Christian exegesis:

Origen was obviously very influential to Christian theology and spirituality. He was widely admired. For instance, Sts. Basil and Gregory Nazianzen compiled a Philokalia of writings of his that they deemed edifying. The ideas he was condemned for (look for Justinian's anathemas) seem to mainly be some excessive Platonic imports. I'm not sure how clearly he was personally anathematized, but it was certainly taken that way after the Fifth Ecumenical Council by many. For instance, at his trial, when St. Maximus the Confessor was asked if he was an Origenist, he immediately said "Anathema to Origen."

Logged

Quote

Radiates, vegetables, monstrosities, star spawn— whatever they had been, they were men!

Origen, a truly compassionate & conscientious theologian, was anathematized by the emperor St. Justinian (who burned Manicheans alive left on ships adrift at sea, as noted by author: Harry J Magoulias in: "Byzantine Christianity: Emperor, Church, & the WEst). This is something I recommend just taking an aspirin to relieve a given headache of & not to become bothered by. Also remain an admirer of Origen if you like; I do.

...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

The website of the artist who originally painted it was posted here a few months ago, which had the high def image.

I was bummed and glad at the same time.

Logged

Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son

...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Origen, a truly compassionate & conscientious theologian, was anathematized by the emperor St. Justinian (who burned Manicheans alive left on ships adrift at sea, as noted by author: Harry J Magoulias in: "Byzantine Christianity: Emperor, Church, & the WEst). This is something I recommend just taking an aspirin to relieve a given headache of & not to become bothered by. Also remain an admirer of Origen if you like; I do.

Also, Origen's father is a saint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Leonides

St. Justinian was totally awesome.

Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Origen, a truly compassionate & conscientious theologian, was anathematized by the emperor St. Justinian (who burned Manicheans alive left on ships adrift at sea, as noted by author: Harry J Magoulias in: "Byzantine Christianity: Emperor, Church, & the WEst). This is something I recommend just taking an aspirin to relieve a given headache of & not to become bothered by. Also remain an admirer of Origen if you like; I do.

Also, Origen's father is a saint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Leonides

Origen, a truly compassionate & conscientious theologian, was anathematized by the emperor St. Justinian (who burned Manicheans alive left on ships adrift at sea, as noted by author: Harry J Magoulias in: "Byzantine Christianity: Emperor, Church, & the WEst). This is something I recommend just taking an aspirin to relieve a given headache of & not to become bothered by. Also remain an admirer of Origen if you like; I do.

Also, Origen's father is a saint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Leonides

St. Justinian was totally awesome.

Yeah, aphtartodocetism totally rocks.

That he ever advanced apthartodocetism is very debatable.

Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

This doesn't surprise me... Justinian was an aggressive individual, and his anathema of Origen and univesal reconciliation is very unfortunate, but i don't think its the last word on things (and I don't believe represents the consensus on Christian theology- I myself believe in conditional universalism). Nontheless, I do like his hymns in the eastern liturgy.

Logged

"I have held many things in my hands, and I have lost them all; but whatever I have placed in God's hands, that I still possess." - Martin Luther

...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

and his anathema of Origen and univesal reconciliation is very unfortunate, but i don't think its the last word on things (and I don't believe represents the consensus on Christian theology- I myself believe in conditional universalism).

Well, the anathema against Origen's apocatastasis wasn't at all unfortunate. St. Gregory of Nyssa had a much more nuanced view of the apocatastasis, and IIRC that one isn't anathematised.

It's not like the Church tosses out everything Origen wrote. In fact, the only problematic things, IIRC, are those passages where he expresses his weird philosophy. Other works, however, are often read and are very edifying.

Evagrius of Pontus was also anathematized by the Fifth Ecumenical Council, and his works are even more widely read in the Church. They are solid works on prayer and spiritual life.

It was not the Emperor St. Justinian who anathematized, but the Holy Church. If it were only the emperor himself, and he had no authority to do this personally, but even if by force of personality he was able to bend a council to his will, other emperors have done the same thing and their designs have been consigned to the dustbin. The Church cannot be manipulated. Emperors are not all-powerful nor are they immortal.

It is really worth actually getting to know St. Justinian (and the other "controversial" saints, before one slaps a big fat condemnation on oneself by speaking ill of them out of ignorance).

Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

I actually do like Justinian, but I'm not sure how he is a saint on par with Origen.

Ah, the wonderful different meanings interpretation gives to words.

You are aware that Origen is not on the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, or Assyrian Calendars? Last I checked, he wasn't commemorated by the Anglicans/Episcopalians, either, at least not since 1979.

Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

In my reading of Origen, I see some platonic influence just as I see it in almost all of the people of the time period. I wonder if his followers perhaps took his views further and that was what led to his condemnation?

Gregory of Nyssa also taught some form of apocatastasis, as does (at least in my reading of the Orthodox Church) Metropolitan Kallistos Ware.

It is quite obvious that many of the Church Fathers are not considered infallible, and Origen doesn't seem that far out when I read him.