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Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Which exact phrase is the one normally used by a bail recovery person that describes what their rights are? Has there been a new rule that takes this opinion out of the loop? Thanxxxx, Ted

Yes and no, depending on the state (and sometimes the city) a Bail Enforcement Agent (BEA) is going to work in.

In the last ten years, many states have used their sovereign rights to require licensing, etc. So it is best to tackle the credentialing from a state platform, rather than a federal platform (because enforcement is typically always by city or state police).

For BEA only: IPIU recommends a BEA Corporation License first, and then to add a professional website and approved business cards and badge (in that order).

For BEA PLUS a state issued PI License, IPIU recommends the above - plus an upgrade to a Lifetime Corporate Membership in order to have a license private investigator sponsor the member for his/her state license (documents take from 1-5 weeks for pre-approval, instead of the normal 3-years of experience).

Example: New York has a BEA license, but requires a "cash" deposit of $500,000 (which nobody really has). Therefore, IPIU can assist in getting a member a sponsor for a PI License, which also allows the PI to perform BEA under the PI License.

Note: Duane Chapman (Dog the Bounty Hunter) has his BEA Corporation License in the same state as IPIU sets up members with (Colorado), even though Chapman works in Hawaii and other parts of the world.

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

My question pertained to the phrasing that seemed to be used stating from the Taylor v Traintor (sp?) that BEA had the right to arrest/restrain/take into custody/ re-arrest/ break to enter, etc. not verbatim but the general idea. Has that changed ? If so, what are those BEA rights now?

I do agree that States may have limited or change some of those rights. I at one time while speaking with a BEA read the back of his bus. card where he had printed the basic rights from Taylor...

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Mr. Copeland provided the correct answer because he is required to provide solutions to members, regardless of whether or not the member chooses IPIU to help them become licensed and credentialed where federal law may be interpreted different than local, county, or state law.

Originally Posted by Ted Menard

My question pertained to the phrasing that seemed to be used stating from the Taylor v Traintor (sp?) that BEA had the right to arrest/restrain/take into custody/ re-arrest/ break to enter, etc. not verbatim but the general idea. Has that changed ? If so, what are those BEA rights now?

The federal rights are still in effect. Yet - local city, county, and state law enforcement officers can choose to arrest a bail enforcement agent based on their own state supreme court ruling which may be contrary to the federal law. This is why Mr Copeland encourages members to protect themselves by going further than the federal statute. Otherwise, a BEA agent may find themselves defending their rights in court at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars (or $2 million in federal court), where the best course of action would have been to become credentialed within both the federal law as well as local laws, regardless of what Taylor v Traintor states.

In addition, there are several state supreme court rulings since 1866 which have their own opinions about what rights a bounty hunter has or not.

I do agree that States may have limited or change some of those rights. I at one time while speaking with a BEA read the back of his bus. card where he had printed the basic rights from Taylor...

A business card is not sufficient (by itself) to use in all potential confrontations with local, county, and state law enforcement officers. It is akin to handing a business card citing the US Constitution First Amendment Right-to-free-speech to a police officer after yelling "FIRE" in a movie theater. The officer will more than likely arrest the person, and allow them to spend millions of dollars in the federal courts.

The solution Mr Copeland outlined, which may be deemed either as a "sales pitch" or simply a helpful guide to safely avoid arrest, is a multi-solution in using the federal ruling in addition to other solutions.

Sincerely,

Ann Marie Ryan

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Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

I have been a Fugitive Recovery Agent for 10 years. Some states do require a license however I originally started work in Michigan. It depends on where you are. I am also an investigator.

Id love to help you out an answer all of your questions. Its best to have a mentor someone who has been in the field for years to help you especially if you want to come home in one piece an alive. Criminals are NOT afraid of us like on Dog the Bounty Hunter. Further more stop trying to research BOUNTY HUNTER laws. The phrase BOUNTY HUNTER is NOT real. The correct term would be Bail Enforcement Agent, or Fugitive Recovery Agent, me personally I am a United States Bail & Fugitive Enforcement Recovery Agent.

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

M A Gildersleeve; I am not of course allowed to interact with you in person according to IPIU for some reason. I do appreciate your offer to mentor or answer question that I may have along my journey to becoming a FRA. I have only recently, (Yesterday)received my official "Bounty Hunters" kit. I will assume that after reading the books, and passing the test, that I will be accorded the title of Bounty Hunter. It will then be up to me to begin working as such, hoping that the information I learned was sufficient. Thank you for your concern. OH yeah, please come and break my legs if I become "Dog". My wife watched 2 episodes and keeps asking me if I am sure that I won't become him!!!
Respectfully submitted
Ted Menard

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Originally Posted by John Sanderson

if you see an administrator correct something I say, take their correction more seriously than something I or anyone else offers you. I would estimate I've learned more from the IPIU than I've taught on the forums.

Hi John,

I corrected your earlier comment about Google search seeing the Level 1 area. Google cannot. But Google can see this topic because it is part of the category titled PUBLIC DISCUSSION, which most sub forums here are open to Google (not all).

To the best of my knowledge, you (Ted) are not restricted from contacting someone outside the forums. WHat is restricted is the invitation to have someone contact you, without an approved signature, e-mail, or other approved avenue.

Ted has an approved pi-agency.us email address to offer to others to contact his at anytime. (Ted, if you forgot your approved pi.agency.us email address, just go to the bottom of any forum page and click on the item titled CONTACT US to request it)

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

ted.menard@pi-agency.us ? you mean that one? Committed to memory months ago thank you. Also on my business cards and letterheads. Bottom of the folio letter I have made up to present to the local LEO's as a short Resume' if I an interacting with them. Thank you , Ted Menard

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Quick note, i just received my fugitive recovery certificate. Through Lee Vineyard, many im sure in the field at minimal know of him.

The term agents use is re-apprehend. You get your apprehension powers through the bondsman and also article 4 sect. 2 of the us constitution.

I am in PA which requires no cert. But many do. I believe states such as Illinois (i think thats one) will arrest an agent for kidnapping if they re-apprehend a fugitive. There are ways around it to get paid. I am not an expert in this field, but i am in security and private investigations.

Research each states laws, some require license, some dont allow firearms, etc... KNOW YOUR LAWS!!!

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Thank you . Can you explain how Lee Vineyard (?) would get around it in Illinois?

My understanding, from what I've read so far this last year, is that if one goes to the Court of record where the bond was issued with the bond copies, and a warrant is issued for the jumper, the warrant must be recognized in all Court jurisdictions. Therefore, if the Court where one locates his warranted person is notified of the warrant accompanied by the bond paperwork, the Court must allow jurisdiction and the FRA becomes an officer of the Court. If one is, however temporary, an officer of a Court, and has a warrant to be executed upon a person within the jurisdiction of that same court, how does any LEO have the power to arrest for detaining one unlawfully.

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

I think that I should have made this more clear and concise.

Without seeing any particular bond in front of me other than some models, I am sure that within the body of the bond instructions and rule sections, there is wording that says if you run and hide, we have the right to come and get you !

It must also state in there somewhere that if you jump, you give up your right to stay out, you waive extradition/ you allow any assigned agent(s) to collect you wherever you are and you agree to allow that same agent(s) to return you to the Court that issued the bond. My wording of course.

That would, I think, be the only way a bonding agent could guarantee the subject would show up if he/she jumped.

If there was no other way to return the jumper without violating his/her rights, charging the FRA with kidnap, or some other form of detaining, why would one ever bond someone? Where is the protection for the Bondsman?

Check state laws because like Pennsylvania has a citizen arrest law. If such states do, you arrest for violating the states fugitive from justice statute if they have one.

You don't get to transport the fugitive. The way I was instructed above, you let local p.d. to handle, but that's how you get paid.

You can, as you said, get proof of the fugitive in the outside state and take to a local court and have them issue their own warrant and go from there. A lot of work though, and such judges may just want to have their own constable buddy get paid and send him off instead of helping you out.

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Guess I'll just keep this going a bit and see what kind of answers come out to play.

ANY... "Fugitive at Large Warrant " written in any court in this nation is to be recognized without question as to it's validity in any other Court . Because of the Federal Law, that would normally supersede local tribal customs and good ol boys definition of the law.

Wouldn't the FRA just go to the local Court, (not necessarily the local cops), and have his warrant recognized and inform the court of his intentions to take the jumper into custody and transport away? If the court did not recognize the warrant, then the FRA should go to ???

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Also every state is different not all recognize each states right to extradict.

The run. But hide clause -- u can enter any of the actor or cosigners residences put on the bond piece, but if actor is in a different address then listed on bond piece and the home owner does not let you in, you are S.O.L. And then have to get the courts involved for an arrest warrant and have local p.d. go, etc... lee vineyard sells the most instructive cover in all areas fugitive recovery agent manual for $50, and its a brick, its huge. I would purchase it if you want to learn more because it covers everything

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

First..... I have 3 manuals that have excel. info , and don't need another right now, thanks. I have never heard about this person.

EVERY state recognizes extradition, as well as the feds do so. A judge might rule against certain extradition proceedings not in your favor, true. The right to extradite a person in favor of another jurisdiction is controlled only by the identification of the person in custody. If the case can be made that the person in custody is in fact, to the Courts satisfaction, the person named and identified in the warrant, done deal. Jumper is on his way home with assistance.

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

O K, before all the lawyers or think so's jump on me, I have bit of experience with extradition cases that I draw from. This might be an example case to look at.....

Joe is on a bond in the state of Ohio.

Joe signed all the boxes on the bond.

Joe's bonding agent has very explicit bond instructions. One is that Joe cannot leave the state.

Joe signed the box that says he waives all of his rights to the extradition process.

Joe goes to Kansas in violation of the agreement he signed with the Court and does not make the next scheduled appearance.

The court issues a FTA (Failure to Appear) warrant, not a fugitive warrant yet.

Joe's bonding agent finds that Joe is in Kansas.

Because Kansas laws may cause the bonding agent's FRA some issue with just picking up Joe and returning him, the bonding agent goes to the Court and notifies them that Joe has left the state in defiance to the order of the court thereby making him a Fugitive.

The court issues a Fugitive from Justice warrant and gives it to the bondsman.

The FRA takes it along with all the bonding paperwork to Kansas, and locates Joe.

Joe goes to the local court with his Fugitive warrant and tells the court where joe is and will need an escort to retrieve him and bring him before the court.

Joe gets LEO to help w/ the pickup, LEO and FRA take Joe before the court where the Fugitive warrant is rendered to the court for identification. The waiver of extra. is noted in the bond paperwork.

Joe admits that he is the person on bond and in the fugitive warrant.

The FRA should then assume custody of Joe for immediate transport as the FRA is a temp. officer of the bonding court, and return him to the court of record asap.

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Ted,

Commercial bonds in laymans is simply any business placing a bail bond to a court for one's release until court date.

Also, we are not talking about Kansas. Illinois was the main focus. Kansas is different as you listed. But Illinois does not recognize the BEA at all, and it is illegal to commit BEA duties in Illinois, and that Judge (I have to check) most likely cannot warrant immunity, that usually can only come from the District Attorney...

***********************

John,

To debate, how does a BEA or FRA apprehend? What is he apprehending on, what new criminal charges? The BEA is re-apprehending on the former charges, with his authority delegated by the bondsman who basically "owns the fugitive".

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Also Ted, Kansas does not have any licensing/training requirements for BEA's. So if it is not illegal to re-apprehend the fugitive, then the BEA is fully justified, and some case law to support crossing state lines and getting the fugitive back: Nicholls v. ingersoll.

************************
And to touch up on semantics John, do sheriffs arrest on new charges, or do they re-arrest on previous charges?

One more thing here John, how you said the LEOs can s**** you, well bondsman surety takes precedence over principal any time, in home state, in other state, etc... See the infamous case of Taylor v. Tainter (1872).

************************
Guys, if I am totally wrong, please correct me. I am just debating for educational purposes what I read in case law and was taught.

Re: FEDERAL LAW - Bounty Hunters

Newcomers should contact someone who has been in the field long enough to mentor them. The art of capturing fugitives and returning alive is my specialty. When you're breaching someones door you have to announce yourself as the united states. Their are no federal licenses for recovery agents, either you work for a bondsman or you work through a judge. The (only) time you are allowed to cross state lines is if the prosecutor allows that to be conducted. Even then you must contact the state where the fugitive is.

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