The TOPIX forum, Freedom of speech and Vindication of MICHAEL JACKSON

1. Strange attraction

When going to a wordpress page today, the first thing I saw was the screen practically black from the number of sites with the word “censored” running across each of them. My first reaction was the incredulous “Could we have been censored?”, however when I typed in the password the blog did open (UPDATE: Now I know that it was a general black-out in connection with the Bill discussed in the US Congress. They say it is to prevent online piracy, but actually implies that everyone should pay for the articles now obtained free. I hope it NEVER passes).

But initially it looked like another of those strange occurrences which started taking place in connection with our blog. The first was the news that vindicatemj blog was consistently trashed on the Michael Jackson forum of the Topix site. Another strange thing is that we also found ourselves in the center of attention of the “mjfacts” site whose home page made a special tribute to a certain vindication blog claiming that it has a “far more sinister agenda” than other blogs in support of Michael Jackson.

If it is us that they have in mind, let me state that our “agenda” is simple – we dare refute lies about Michael Jackson and have already found overwhelming proof of his innocence, both of which may indeed look sinister to Michael Jackson’s haters.

Now that Topix and mjfacts site have drawn so much attention to themselves, it is no use guys, to ask me stop looking in their direction and simply go on with vindicating Michael. Please excuse me for my stubbornness, but I am just curious to find out why these strange people are so preoccupied with us and what their agenda is.

For a start let me state that there is a close connection between the two sites mentioned above.

The MJ haters’ site refers its readers to TOPIX

The MJ haters’ site does not allow any comment on its posts, and its contact page directs all readers straight to Topix for contacting them and asking questions there.

According to MJ’s detractor “there are many knowledgeable people there who can help readers with these issues”. And though the author claims he doesn’t post on Topix, he surely regularly checks up its MJ forum for feedback to his own anti-Michael posts.

His advice to contact him there most probably means that answers to their questions will be provided on his blog. The system of correspondence seems to be complicated of course, but speaks to close interaction between the two sites, which turn into a sort of a single entity this way.

On the other hand the Topix writers continually involved in Michael Jackson’s trashing also recommend the “mjfacts” site as the only “credible” source of information on MJ.

So getting first-hand proof of such interaction between the two sites is an interesting fact in and of itself and is reason enough for us to have a closer look at this phenomenon.

Considering the dispute now going on in the US over free speech on internet and the detractor’s advice to visit Topix as “one of the few uncensored Michael Jackson sites”, I am also curious to check whether there is indeed no censorship on the Topix site and if it really gives equal opportunities to people to express their views on Michael Jackson (and other issues).

Topix claims that free speech is its cornerstone and the very reason for its existence.

I am for free speech with my both hands but for this particular post will set certain limitations for myself. What I am presenting here is not just my opinion – no, it is a collection of materials from those who dealt with Topix and can share with us their first-hand experience. The evidence these people provide is trustworthy enough, as unlike Topix anonymous writers these authors give their true names to the public and do not change their internet location every half an hour not to show the place they are writing from.

2. What Topix CEO Chris Tolles says about his company and its strategy

Based on the number of unique visitors to the Topix site its CEO Chris Tolles says that Topix’s popularity is second only to the New York Times. This sounds true as whenever I google search for the name of Michael Jackson the Topix comments always come one of the first on the list. Their hateful posts practically dominate the internet environment – at least as far as Michael Jackson is concerned.

Explaining the goals and strategy of his company Mr. Tolles says that being a news aggregator is “not interesting” and the future of journalism belongs to local news made by the people themselves. He promises to journalists that the restructuring of the news business will be bloody.

Mr. Tolles himself has made a post on his Topix site which shows that Topix has indeed become the #1 most visited site. It is a sort of a report to the board of the three largest newspaper companies which invested millions in it:

In March of 2005, we received investment from the three largest newspaper companies in the US, Gannett, Tribune and Knight Ridder. Flash forward four years: In March 2009, we edged out USA TODAY to become their #1 media property at 6.5M unique visitors (comScore) with a focus on hyper local participation. Out of US newspaper sites, only the New York Times has more unique visitors.

The folks I’ve worked with over the past four years are smart, savvy and realize where they stand. They wanted to make sure they had a stake in a news aggregator with Google having just launched Google news.

A little while into their investment, we told them that news aggregation was a great start to a business, but it wasn’t very interesting, from either a traffic or a revenue standpoint. And that doubling down on hyper local news – especially where there currently wasn’t any – was the strategy we were going to pursue.

…While we started out as a broad-based news aggregator, we noticed that what people wanted most was news about their town. So, we moved to augment our news with comments and stories from our visitors. And today it’s great to see that our strategy has paid traffic dividends, and being the #1 site with respect to unique visitors with company like theMiami Herald, Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times and USA TODAY is something we’re pretty proud of here at Topix.

Despite what journalists think, with the decoupling of classified revenues, there is going to be a huge restructuring in the news business, and it’s going to be bloody. There’s really nothing that would have prevented most of what’s happening here.

Over the past four years, we have grown Topix with its roots in aggregation technology, to the place where people discuss the news and issues important to where the live and work. Embracing audience participation is for us the critical engine for content creation and traffic growth.

There’s still a lot of work to do here, but it feels good to tell my board that we are their #1 most visited site.

In another article Chris Tolles speaks on how to make the internet news profitable. He says that “there is no money in building a news aggregator focused on trust” and that it is “NOT a strategy for direct monetization”.

I didn’t quite get his above idea but from his various statements gather that it is the news built on trust which he thinks not to be profitable business. Does he mean to say that credible sources of information verifying their facts do not give money any longer? And does it also mean that he is suggesting its opposite as a way to make the media profitable – the news built not on trust but on what may be unverified gossip or even shocking lies?

I guess its time for another crop of news products from journalists. Why is it that when these guys all go onto the field of battle “once more into the breach” style, they don’t understand which side of the Agincourt analogy they are on. They face superior weapons and a difference in culture and ethics. They are the French in this battle. They die.

So, since the grand total is around $36B, Google news is pretty much a non revenue products, and Google was doing just fine with little or no news results in their main index until the last couple of years. Yahoo does put news in a lot of their products, but certainly, nowhere near 50% of their advertising is sold against news, as is the same for AOL and MSN.

(Oh and last time I checked the newspaper industry advertising revenue was $37.85B)

News is a crap search product, and a loss leader, which is a big reason why Google news was in beta for years, and unmonetized, and why many news-centric searches get no ads next to them.

News is an unprofitable search. Since we at Topix are an adsense partner, and I am a downstream beneficiary to what revenues there are here, I know what kind of eCPM news brings and how hard it is to make money on aggregated “news” content.

… I have some experience in running a news site here at Topix. We’ve built a site which is,according to comScore, the #2 “newspaper” site online. We actually had a program for a while where’ we’d give 50% of all ad revenues back to publishers who wanted to syndicate content to us. Didn’t work worth a damn.

…We’ve since moved on to try and create community around our news, which is percolating along, and focus on local — which seems to be an area where we can compete with the lack of anything else out there. The success that we’re having is creating a product where Google (or the newspapers for that matter) can’t, or are unwilling, to compete on even terms.

But Jeez, why is it that all the old newspaper guys think there’s some giant pile of money at the top of the trust pyramid? There isn’t. All the money is at the bottom. In the muck. In the details. WhereGawker plays. WhereTechcrunch plays. It’s not aggregating the “top trusted content, it’s owning a category and being the best and, ideally, only ones there.

Journalists don’t win this game. Publishers win this game.

People who care about pageviews and winning, more than they worry about concepts like “trust”.

The “bad guys” win.

…Really, there is no money in building a news aggregator focused on trust. If anything, it can be a start or a loss leader for whatever your real product is. But it is NOT a strategy for direct monetization. Trust me on that one.

In this post, Chris Tolles spells out his media philosophy, rationale, dislike of journalists, views on profitability in media and reflects in general, on the take-over of print media by internet media. He makes very clear, that he is little interested in “another crop of news products from journalists”, he reflects that they do not understand the “battlefield” which he compares to the Battle of Agincourt where the outnumbered English defeated the French in the 100 years war.

I have a few questions for Chris related to this post:

Is this a battle Chris? If so, who are you trying to kill? You do use the word “die”. Are you trying to kill off newspapers and “old newspaper guys” i.e. journalists?

And what are you proposing to replace them with? Citizen journalists? Trolls? Are you proposing to elevate the comment to the place once held by newspaper editorials? What do you propose to replace reporting with? What do you proposed to replace investigative journalism with? What do you propose to replace fact-checking with?

Do you propose to replace news with opinion, which on Topix many times, means gossip and bullying?

Can you explain this sentence from your article: “They face superior weapons and a difference in culture and ethics.” Do you mean no ethics? Is that the difference?

Are trolls what you mean by “superior weapons”?

Topix has no terms of service for its users, no rules at all to follow, no guiding ethics beyond a request to be “nice”, a request that is routinely ignored by both the trolls and the moderators. Its forums are often mosh-pits loaded with slanderous gossip.

Therefore, if one is to take what you have written here seriously, you are proclaiming the superiority of media without ethics to guide it save those within the posters themselves? A world which, without a verification system of what is true or false, without rules to guide it, places brutality and meanness at the utmost pinnacle of persuasion? A world ruled by moderators that are hardly impartial?

You have clearly advanced your support for this type of persuasion and media, by your statement all of the money [in media] is to be found in the “Muck”.

Money matters more than people??? Not when you are running a people business and promoting citizen journalists as the future of Media.

My question to you is, what about the posters who are guaranteed to be harmed by this climate of brutality? Words are powerful weapons and used as such. Is this the objective?

What about those who never even post on Topix but are having their names dragged through the mud there, since the climate you are advancing here, sets up the perfect stage for slander?

There are threads like these on almost every Topix forum across the Country and World.

What about the truth? Should bottom-feeders be encouraged and supported? What media philosophy, besides yours, supports this and ifAmerica understands that this is the philosophy Topix supports, how well do you think they will tolerate it? Since when does it not matter if people are being defamed?

Since when can media exist without ethics?

How can a company that advertises itself as a media company and all about citizen journalists, be so indifferent to the people who post there?

Tolles is declaring victory in The Bad Guys Lose for the very opposite scenario, a scenario where the bad guys clearly, win.

3. THE PRICE THEY PAY FOR CHRIS TOLLES’S NEW “NEWS MODEL”

So Chris Tolles does not even pretend that his new business model of “making news” has to do with information per se. Same as with Michael Jackson it is all about MONEY.

In Michael Jackson’s case it was the life and happiness of one person “only” which was sacrificed for the financial benefit of the media and “entertainment” of millions of people, and now it is the life and happiness of manypeople which are being sacrificed for the financial benefit of some advertisers and those few who gain huge profits from the new business model devised.

The pattern which was once tested on Michael Jackson is now being promoted for a wider audience – anonymous slanderers trash innocent people by spreading wild rumors about them and never answer for what they do, while the profits rise.

Once the virus of profiteering by human suffering was launched, was allowed to break all ethical norms of journalism, and was successfully tested on Michael Jackson’s life, it started spreading. Now many ordinary people will also taste what it feels like when you are slandered and libeled for no reason at all and even law is incapable to help you to wash yourself from this dirt.

The recent New York Times article, dated September 19, 2011, describes in vivid detail the price people are paying for the huge money Topix makes out of their novel “news-making” strategy:

MOUNTAIN GROVE, Mo. — In the small towns nestled throughout the Ozarks, people like to say that everybody knows everybody’s business — and if they do not, they feel free to offer an educated guess.

One of the established places here for trading the gossip of the day is Dee’s Place, a country diner where a dozen longtime residents gather each morning around a table permanently reserved with a members-only sign for the “Old Farts Club,” as they call themselves, to talk about weather, politics and, of course, their neighbors.

But of late, more people in this hardscrabble town of 5,000 have shifted from sharing the latest news and rumors over eggs and coffee to the Mountain Grove Forum on a social media Web site called Topix, where they write and read startlingly negative posts, all cloaked in anonymity, about one another.

And in Dee’s Place, people are not happy. A waitress, Pheobe Best, said that the site had provoked fights and caused divorces. The diner’s owner, Jim Deverell, called Topix a “cesspool of character assassination.” And hearing the conversation, Shane James, the cook, wandered out of the kitchen tense with anger.

His wife, Jennifer, had been the target in a post titled “freak,” he said, which described the mother of two as, among other things, “a methed-out, doped-out whore with AIDS.” Not a word was true, Mr. and Ms. James said, but the consequences were real enough.

Friends and relatives stopped speaking to them. Trips to the grocery store brought a crushing barrage of knowing glances. She wept constantly and even considered suicide. Now, the couple has resolved to move.

“I’ll never come back to this town again,” Ms. James said in an interview at the diner. “I just want to get the hell away from here.”

The same Web sites created as places for candid talk about local news and politics are also hubs of unsubstantiated gossip, stirring widespread resentment in communities where ties run deep, memories run long and anonymity is something of a novel concept.

… Whereas online negativity seems to dissipate naturally in a large city, it often grates like steel wool in a small town where insults are not easily forgotten.

The forums have provoked censure by local governments, a number of lawsuits and, in one case, criticism by relatives after a woman in Austin, Ind., killed herself and her three children this year. Hours earlier she wrote on the Web site where her divorce had been a topic of conversation, “Now it’s time to take the pain away.”

In Hyden, Ky. (population 365), the local forum had 107 visitors at the same time one afternoon this month. They encountered posts about the school system, a new restaurant and local arrests, as well as the news articles and political questions posted by Topix.

But more typical were the unsubstantiated posts that identified by name an employee at a dentist’s office as a home wrecker with herpes, accused a gas station attendant of being a drug dealer, and said a 13-year-old girl was “preggo by her mommy’s man.” Many allegations were followed with promises of retribution to whoever started the post.

“If names had been put on and tied to what has been said, there would have been one killing after another,” said Lonnie Hendrix, Hyden’s mayor.

Topix, based in Palo Alto, Calif., is owned in part by several major newspaper companies — Gannett, Tribune and McClatchy — but has independent editorial control. It was initially envisioned as a hyperlocal news aggregator with separate pages for every community in the country. But most of its growth was in small cities and towns, and local commenters wanted to shift the conversation to more traditional gossip.

Mr. Tolles acknowledged the biggest problem at the site is “keeping the conversation on the rails.” But he defended it on free-speech grounds. He said the comments are funny to read, make private gossip public, provide a platform for “people who have negative things to say” and are better for business.

Topix said it received about 125,000 posts on any given day in forums for about 5,000 cities and towns. Unlike sites like Facebook, which requires users to give their real name, Topix users can pick different names for each post and are identified only by geography. About 9 percent are automatically screened out by software, based on offensive content like racial slurs; another 3 percent — mostly threats and “obvious libel,” Mr. Tolles said — are removed after people complain.

After a challenge from more than 30 state attorneys general, Topix stopped charging for the expedited removal of offensive comments — which Jack Conway, the attorney general for Kentucky, said “smacked of having to pay a fee to get your good name back.”

Despite the screening efforts, the site is full of posts that seem to cross lines. Topix, as an Internet forum, is immune from libel suits under federal law, but those who post could be sued, if they are found.

The company receives about one subpoena a day for the computer addresses of anonymous commenters as part of law enforcement investigations or civil suits, some of which have resulted in cash verdicts or settlements.

But at Dee’s Place, Jennifer James said she did not have enough money to pursue a lawsuit. And even if she did, she said, it would not help.

A quick internet search has brought me a pile of complaints made by ordinary people against Topix. Some of them approached the state attorneys general:

Attorney General legal definition:

The chief legal officer of the United States or of a state, who advises the federal or state government on legal matters, represents the federal or state government in litigation, and heads the United States Department of Justice or a state’s legal department. Abbreviated A.G.

Wiki says that it required the involvement of 30 (thirty) states’ attorneys generals for Topix to stop charging money for the removal of negative posts and “getting one’s good name back”:

Initially Topix charged money to people who requested that Topix take expedited removal of negative posts. After thirty states’ attorneys generals protested, Topix stopped charging.Jack Conway, the Kentucky Attorney General, said the charging scheme “smacked of having to pay a fee to get your good name back.“[5]

By 2010 Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conwayand Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthalquestioned the website’s practice of charging $19.99 for expedited review of slanderous comments in local forums. According to a press release from Conway’s office,[7]the tools provided by Topix.com to remove the abusive posts are ineffective unless consumers agree to pay the fee. Topix CEO Chris Tolles accused the pair of grandstanding and intimidation, insisting the site operates with appropriate and timely oversight.[8]

.. On February 03, 2009, Mark and Rhonda Lesher filed a defamation lawsuit against anonymous posters on Topix.com. According to the Leshers’ petition, over 1,700 defamatory statements were made about them by anonymous posters on Topix.com. Although Topix was not a party to the lawsuit, it was forced to reveal the IP addresses of the posters and the dangers of unmoderated anonymous posting on Topix were brought to light for the first time in the public eye.

Topix has been cited as an example ofcyberbullyingand a hindrance to efforts to end the practice among minors.[9]

We can imagine how ‘easy’ it is for ordinary people to deal with Topix if this is how the Topix CEO allows himself to talk to two Attorneys General:

Conway criticizes oversight of Topix.comBy Cheryl Truman — ctruman@herald-leader.comPosted: 12:00am on Feb 12, 2010;Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway and Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal have asked the community news and discussion Web site Topix.com for additional information about a $19.99 fee that consumers pay for “priority review” of inappropriate posts.But Chris Tolles, the CEO of Topix, accused the pair of grandstanding and intimidationand insists that his site operates with appropriate and timely oversight.The two attorneys general complained about “false and defamatory information about children, as well as adults” that has been posted on Topix, available at both Topix.com and Topix.net.In a letter to Tolles dated Thursday, the two wrote that the Web site’s forums “appear to operate without moderators and contain obscene, vulgar and abusive posts, often concerning minors.”Tolles fired back after a reporter contacted him seeking comment and e-mailed him a copy ofConway’s press release along with the letter.“That’s grandstanding, that’s what it is,” Tolles said of the material from Conway and Blumenthal, who is chairman of the National Association of Attorneys General Multistate Task Force on Internet Safety. “This is not a reasonable inquiry for information.”He said the letter and news release angered him because it accused his company “of running a shakedown service.” Tolles said that the vast majority of posts taken down are removed via the standard review process and that consumers have three methods they can use to seek review of a post: flagging a post for abuse; filing feedback with Topix, with specific information about a post’s contents; or paying $19.99 to “jump the queue” for priority processing of a complaint.“This is clearly designed to be intimidation,” he said of the Conway-Blumenthal letter.The McClatchy Company, the parent company of the Herald-Leader, became owner of an 11.25 percent stake in Topix when McClatchy bought Knight Ridder in 2006.

The letter I sent to Topix people is called “For the attention of vindicationfailedforwacko” . Topix immediately shadow banned it

The above sheds some light on the company’s approach to the complaints of citizens insulted on Topix forums. So the letter I’ve sent to them, demanding an apology for unethical behaviour towards the admins of this blog, can now be regarded as a mere souvenir for the Topix people or as a relic of the deep past when ethics and honor were still having some value.

This however does not preclude us from speaking out against the Topix malicious and libellous practices.

Topix.com Commits fraud!

I worked with the management team for Palo Alto, California based Topix.com, and wanted to expose some business secrets this company uses to make money off of innocent people.

Topix.com allows online users to post stories and topics in their local communities on its website. However many users use the site to post hateful and defaming remarks about people and businesses, for the fact that the site is not moderated.

Chris Tolles, the company President & CEO, figured his company could make money by allowing users to post negative remarks about others, than charge the attacked entity to remove the remarks in a timely manner. It became a good source of income for Topix, allowing such unethical issues to be posted on their site. They allow the comments to stay on as long as they can, even after numerous complaints are filed to remove them by users who are attacked by others.

They recently removed the payment feature to charge to remove comments, unfortunately so many complaints are coming in, Topix can’t handle the burden. The company still refuses to moderate the postings, which continue to fall into the category on internet defamation, in which Mr. Tolles and company are truly guilty of.

I left the company, after being asked to do other unethical practices by management, and felt I should share my issues with the world!

When you read people’s numerous complaints about the destruction of their lives by Topix anonymous writers, you start realizing that what is being done there has nothing to do with real freedom of speech. It is a sort of a travesty of it – due to full anonymity and a possibility to pour any dirt on anyone it becomes a platform for all sorts of perverts who not only destroy other people’s reputations but also impose their sick views on the public and get away with it at that!

These comments will tell you everything you wanted to know about the Topix “citizen’s journalism” and its specifics:

This site is horrible. Full of racist, sexist & dangerous people.This forum has no supervision at all…everyone can comment freely and explicitly, especially in the human sexuality forum…I thought I can do some intelligent discussions about sexual health but NO!! lots of perverts lurking there… Stay away from this site! http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/topixcom-c564512.html

Posted: 2011-09-30 by BRTtTopix is not what freedom of speech means. It claims to be a journalistic site. Journalism requires facts and research of which Topix does none of. The site is designed for users who do not have to even register to go into a community, post lies and destroy people’s reputations and in extreme cases lead to society. The Topix management team has been quoted as saying they find attacks on people as being humorous. Seeing a child commit suicide because cowards are going to a sick website that has no moral integrity is not humorous at all it is deadly.Much of the blame lies against the Topix company because they continue to lie. The site has claimed they are trying to stop cyberbullying yet have only a handful of alleged moderators to look over 350,000 plus forums. With those numbers it not possible and the moderators in many cases have been shown to go into a forum and bully others as well to add webhits. That is unethical.The website refuses to make users sign up to post on the site which has led to many of the problems as well. This is because the company fears that when people are held accountable they will stop posting on the site. This is ridiculous. Users who want to contribute something positive will have no problem registering, it only takes a minute or two. What it amounts to is a lack of Ethics by Topix management team.Many of the comments made by Topix management are appalling and the company has decided to go the unethical route and have often challenged media and government to try and stop them. In some cases, they have had an attorney send threatening emails and letters to people who have contacted Topix advertisers stating they are boycotting them because of Topix refusal to clean up its sick forums.In many of the forums people have lost their businesses and reputation and because of Topix refusal to do anything, they have destroyed thousands of people. It is obvious that Topix is in need of finding a heart and need a change in management unless the company starts showing ethics. Topix is the most dangerous company on the internet and is a danger to all.http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/topixcom-california-c498840.html

21st of Jun, 2010 by BrarichI am thrilled that more and more people are catching on to the horrible site called Topix. I made the mistake of thinking that Topix was a legitimate news site. I was quickly appalled to learn that in most of the forums, particularly small town forums there was a serious lack of news but plenty of slander. I have seen people I personally know have their names dragged through the mud by some coward who doesn’t even have the decency to post his or her name when libeling someone else. Libel is a crime and in a day and age where kids are committing suicide over cyberbullying, I had appalled this is allowed to go on. I let the Tribute Company, The Gannett Company, and the McClatchy Group know that I will no longer be supporting any paper they own, because they are owners in that vicious site. ..Freedom of speech is much different than freedom of libel and if any of you don’t know the different then that speaks volumes. Topix needs to be held accountable for what they purposely allow to happen on unmoderated forums. You are not a true news site if your forums are unmoderated and people are allowed to simply post your name and say whatever they want. We need to let all of our politicians know and the people know that this company needs to be investigated and prosecuted for allowing criminal activity to occur.

Freedom of speech on Topix. First they shadow ban you and then they shout about Freedom of Speech. It is no surprise they have to hide their location after that

24th of Jun, 2010 by rpennycollectorGood grief, Topix LLC is the most evil company in this country. The site is not appropriate for children to look at it yet there is no moderation with the company meaning your kid can be libeled and Topix does not care. Anyone can have their reputation destroyed because Topix doesn’t really have any rules. You don’t have to register, your IP isn’t posted, and you can say anything. Even if it does get deleted eventually, it is usually slow and if you want it faster you have to pay money to have something removed. Oh wait, that’s if the powers that be decide they WANT to remove it. That’s right, they can just take your twenty bucks if they choose. That is criminal. There is a growing movement of people sick of how they are allowed to break the law and hopefully Topix and the companies that own them are going to get what is coming to them. There is no justification for a site that attacks people and isn’t even moderated. Libel is not what was meant by freedom of speech and if anyone doesn’t know the difference, that speaks volumes.http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/topixcom-palo-alto-california-c348887.html29th of Sep, 2010 by steadythereWhat gets me is why Topix seldom gets any media mention. Cyberbullying and the dangerous effects of that is a hot button topic and you hear companies mentioned like Facebook and others. Those sites could definitely use improvement but Topix with no registration and moderation is the worst of the bunch. Libeling someone is not protected by the first amendment, period.20th of Oct, 2010 by MadMaggzTopix is fostering an environment which is not only dangerous to minors but allows pornography, especially the forum titled HUMAN SEXUALITY. Many of us have contacted child advocacy groups and lodged complaints which are being investigated. What I find disturbing is that posters are not required to register before posting like other legitimate news sites online. This allows the ‘trolls’ to post and change screen names with no repercussions.Topix also allows previously banned screen names to continue to reregister and post with names similar to the ones banned.It is high time that Topix cleans up their site or risk having it taken down off the net permanently. Considering what they are allowing, I am not the least bit surprised. Keep up the pressure.http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/topixcom-palo-alto-california-c348887.html?page=2

The comments from a journalists’ site show that journalists are equally appalled by Topix:

Topix is even slower than they used to be in removing posts. The forums have gone from bad to worse. Why doesn’t Topix simply require registration, IP banning, and human moderation? They should also delete some of the forums. It would actually help with advertising and reputation and in the long run make them more money. Topix doesn’t want moderation because they are afraid it will hurt their hits. That might happen in the short run but in the long run they will be a stronger company and because of their lack of ethics this is one time the government and Attorney Generals are perfectly justified and actually should do more. Freedom of speech only goes so far and those that don’t understand probably are the ones guilty of libeling and attacking others. Come on Topix!

Is Topix referring to me as Helena “the hater” who never sleeps? Must be me as there is really so much work that sleep is a rare occasion. So is it in my name that they are speaking?

Kat Sep 11th, 2010 at 7:25 pmI think the initial concept of Topix was actually interesting but when you decide to go the route of an unlimited amount of forums, no registration, you basically have gone from what could have been a well-respected valuable website and company to one that promotes trash. The forums are awful and more and more bullies are going on there and trashing whomever because they find some kind of perverse pleasure in that.When you have forums where people are posting about fathers sleeping with their daughters, come on. That cannot be defended in any shape or fashion.While cowards are always going to find ways around things, at least make it harder for them. Require registration with a valid email address, make people check they have read the Terms of Services, have IP banning, and no more hiding behind proxies and list the real location where the posts came from and you will clean the forums up to a degree and you don’t need so many forums. I am a firm believer in Karma and to continue to run a company that has thousands of people including children just isn’t a good idea.Taylor Aug 25th, 2010 at 3:36 pmTo me it is simple. Start by requiring registration to post, moderate the posts, as others have said eliminate the ones that are immediate trouble like the Human Sexuality and drug forums (which are harboring illegal activity and that definitely voids out the freedom of speech argument) and do away with people being able to change the location of their posts or the ones who hide behind a proxy.

First they wonder why anyone would change their location…

This will not stop some from changing user names and possibly using other computers but it makes it more difficult and Topix could use an IP banning system very easy. It would please all involved, make for better forums, and it would say them thousands in legal fees. Cyberbullying and stalking is big news right now and the company would be wise to make the real changes it needs to. Now THAT would be a good business model.

… then they change their location to Russia…

Drew Sep 28th, 2010 at 11:33 amRequire registration with a valid email address and have a human moderator for each of your forums and IP banning and you would solve a ton of the problems and it actually might increase advertising so there would still be money to be made by Topix. Currently it is the worst cyberbullying site on the internet not exactly something to be proud of.

…and then to North Korea! Indeed, why would anyone change their location?

McGee Nov 1st, 2010 at 10:09 amI visited a forum and saw a post that had pedophile like remarks in it about Jr. high kids I reported it to topix! of course I do not know how many more reported it, topix promptly removed the thread but did not ban the poster, he was back the next morning trying to start the same thing.Also this same poster has said that white women that had anything to do with Mexicans should be killed, they remove the thread but not the poster. Topix is pure trash!!!Patti Foster Dec 28th, 2011 at 5:03 pmTopix…
All of the above and worse.
Chris Tolles is an unethical, greedy, SOB who deserves a taste of his own “medicine.”
I am one of the few who actually got a court order for internet harassment on a troll named Eric C. Fahrner…
It is possible to get harassment injunctions for internet harassment. Harrassment is not protected by the free speech clause. http://www.courantalumni.org/2010/08/09/topix-more-polish-same-crap/comment-page-1/#comment-3416

However it is the comments by writer Virginia Hoge which will be a truly eye-opening experience to us all:

19th of Jun, 2010 by Virginia Hoge

I have been conducting a 10 month investigation of Topix and what I have found out is horrifying. The management is sponsoring gangs of trolls, plastering their advertising onto their comments, who are beating up commentators across the country. They are practicing censorship, and the persecution of their critics.Here are the articles I have written about my ongoing investigation:http://open.salon.com/search.php?allwords=virginia+hoge19th of Jun, 2010 by Virginia Hoge“They allow the comments to stay on as long as they can, even after numerous complaints are filed to remove them by users who are attacked by others.”AND they pay the trolls who are doing the attacking.The also use Topix employees – like Selecia Jones – he organizes bands of trolls and direct them to threads where they proceed to stick their fangs into commentators, to try and get more “hits”.AND they plaster advertising into the comment boxes of some of the worse bully-trolls.AND the censor critics of the trolling problem, after they have first attempted to persecute them off threads with their trolls, if the trolls do not work, they censor critics by shadow-banning them.AND a method of persecution of their critics is to allow the trolls to build Topix attack forums, naming their critic by name, on which the trolls will load the forum down with harsh, foul, profane slurs against their victim.21st of Jun, 2010 by Virginia HogeThe lack of moderation is a cover-up to their facilitation of the trolls, who they pay, organize and send out in organized packs on ‘hot” threads to beat up commentators and make more “hits” for Topix.The fact that these trolls sometimes carry Topix’s advertisers ads right in their comment boxes proves this, and well as what I have learned in my investigation.The general attitude towards trolling – ignore them – has facilitated this master plan Topix has to not only use the trolls, but make them a central part of its income. Topix bans opposition to the trolls, and also had the trolls beat-up on anyone who dares speak out.The huge problem with this is trolls are harming millions of Americans across the country with harassment and vile slander and profanity and debasement, that is causing real psychological damage to hundreds and hundreds of people. Topix is ACCOUNTABLE for the serious harm they are promoting across the country.http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/topixcom-palo-alto-california-c348887.htmlPosted: 2010-12-28 by Virginia HogeTopix forums, are the number one internet community forums, linked to newspapers across America.
From their website:
“Topix is the leading news community on the Web, connecting people to the information and discussions, that matter to them in every U.S. town and city.”
The three biggest newspaper corporations in the country, are heavily invested. Based in Palo Alto, Calif., Topix LLC is a privately held company with investment from Gannett Co., Inc. (NYSE: GCI), The McClatchy Company (NYSE: MNI) and Tribune Company.
These three corporations invested $15-million dollars in Topix. “November 6, 2006: Topix Receives $15 Million in Additional Funding from Tribune, Gannett, and McClatchy”
From Local Media Watch: Indeed, its potential was deemed so great that Gannett, Tribune and Knight Ridder paid $60 million for it in 2005, expecting it to play a key role in the future of local news.Topix and GoogleTopix is affiliated with Google, whose search engines give Topix, the highest priority.
These forums have become notorious across the nation for the number of trolls clogging their threads and the degree of repugnant human conversation going on. They recently changed their user terms of service, stating only that the the company is not responsible for anything published on it, no other rules for behavior are given. Yet for many small towns across America, Topix has replaced their local newspaper.

I have been investigating Topix for a year and a half and recently interesting and disturbing comments, have been posted on one of my Topix posts, ironically entitled: “Something way funky is going on over at Topix.com”If they are accurate, they are saying that Topix is gathering user’s personal data, in conjunction with the NSA, to use it to, “spy on citizens, profile them [and] invasion of privacy”:“The “Tolles Trolls” can observe the habits of millions of Americans, perhaps report them to law enforcement, mess with their credit report, etc.”The comments declare that Topix has allowed the National Security Agency, to breach their encryption codes, to access users private information. They point out the background of Topix founder Rich Skrenta, as the creator of a computer virus that is “widely believed to be the first large-scale self-spreading personal computer virus ever created.”The NSA has been working with internet companies, in the Silicon Valley similar to Topix, to gain access to their encryption codes, to access the private information of users. Topix CEO, Chris Tolles, at the time with Sun Microsystems said this:“Everyone in Silicon Valley, including us, has to have specific staff, highly paid experts, to deal with (the NSA) them, ” said Chris Tolles, security group product manager at Sun.” http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/topixcom-california-c404472.html5th of Feb, 2011 by TiredofAwful ServiceI so agree with you. It states Be Polite right under the box you post in.No one, but the innocent victims of cyberbullies & a few brave souls, are polite there. There’s a woman now, by the name of RavenzMoon, who claims she can get your ISP just from clicking on your nic. We check with IT tech, and they said unless she’s the moderator, that’s not possible.She also claims to be have worked for the govt, but won’t say who. I would proudly tell someone whom I worked for, if I was hired to be in the federal govt, wouldn’t you?Well, if she can get your IP, or ISP, I do believe she might be able to get your personal info, and also maybe hack into your computer, I’m not really sure, but that alarms me big time!She’s attacked so many on that site, but the other cyberbullies there, stick up for her, and her rude/deceitful/inflammatory/degrading posts are never removed there.We’re trying to warn others about her, but nothing is getting done.She’s also got a website that she advertises there, but if you click on it, you’ll get a strange message saying this is not secure and your confidential info could be disclosed.This makes me think twice about her truthfulness and her innocence.But one thing is clear. Those people are putting other people’s lives at risk…. Close this site down http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/topixcom-california-c404472.html

Topix has stuck a pack of troll thugs onto me and my supporters, who are hacking into our computers, posting our personal information like addresses, hacking into our profiles, threatening our bank accounts, and saying this is all information and passwords handed over to them and sanctioned by Topix. This thread is a must-follow:http://www.topix.com/forum/news/topix/TF3D2UNT1MC4J9QB4/p7#c133

“dem: kelly sent me all the passwords you use on your computer. think maybe i’ll make some purchases from artists den today.”

5. HATE IS EASY; LOVE TAKES COURAGE

A heoric woman like Virginia Hoge deserves great respect. She is doing a fantastic job of cleaning the internet of the mud spilt there by the Topix forums. However at the moment Virginia is going through all circles of the Topix hell. This article of hers shows the extent of monitoring people Topix is capable of and the work those “in the office” do when they handle someone who is not to their liking:

OCTOBER 23, 2011 1:37PM

Topix has me wired…….. lol

News is a weapon too important to leave to people who can’t even figure out how to run a profitable business.” – Chris Tolles, CEO of Topix

“…they don’t understand which side of the Agincourt analogy they are on. They face superior weapons and a difference in culture and ethics. They are the French in this battle. They die.” – Chris Tolles, CEO of Topix

Whoa! lol. I have been on Topix for over two years and stalked the entire time by one of these Topix superior weapons, a troll who uses many profiles and names.

Here are two samples, of the thousands of similiar comments she has posted to me:

Kelly wrote: “I hate your guts, Ms. Hoge, and I wish you were dead.”

Kelly wrote: “I’d love to see YOU in a snuff porno video.”

This same troll recently posted this, which proves the extent to which I have been monitored on Topix.

The troll is mixing up inaccuracies, with a revealing look into the extent this troll – and Topix – is watching me there, and the fact that my private messages on Topix are being read by her.

thats what we in the office refer to as one who takes Topix WAY to seriouslykinda patheticand cowardly “

Topix is very afraid of me and my opinion.

The monitoring of me on Topix shows the extent to which they are. The fact that the troll also batters me while monitoring me, proves that Topix likes to lash out and hard, against those whom they dislike.

Force doesn’t stop anything. People are notable in their dislike of being what to do, and to clobber someone on Topix, is only going to make that person get off the couch. Topix seriously believes, in Hate. Its no wonder right-wing politics are making themself at home there.

They believe this so deeply………. I am living proof of this.

I believe in Love.

Hate is easy; Love takes courage

Virginia says about herself:

My Virginia profile on Topix, was banned after posting 6,918 comments. I have had 3 of my name profiles there banned without warning. I am on my last name profile there, Olive.

6. CENSORSHIP GAMES or the DEMOCRATIC FUN THEY HAVE ON TOPIX

As regards censorship on Topix I have had my own first-hand experience in this respect. Their censorship is a very specific type. In addition to all the troll games you have learned of above, Topix also practices the so-called shadow banning.

It is called shadow banning because they do censor you but no one knows about it, so on the surface of it it looks like the best of democracies.

You wanted to post and they allowed you to do it. Even if you are speaking up for Michael Jackson. Even if you are from Russia. Even if you the admin of a blog which adheres to the views opposite to those of their favorite “mjfacts” site.

However later you find out that it is only a make-belief game as people start asking you where your post is.

You tell them that it is there, and they tell you that it is not.

You can see it, and they cannot.

This is when it begins to dawn on you that you dealing with a special “Topix type” democracy which is not quite what you expected and is definitely not the ideal you’ve always cherished in your dreams.

It is the illusion of it.

Shadow banning creates the illusion that your voice has been heard, your message posted or your views have been expressed – only you are neither seen, heard nor noticed.

And if you were all alone and didn’t have someone to tell you that you are actually invisible in this Topix world of theirs you would never have known of it.

This way Topix keeps everyone happy – you are happy that you’ve posted and they are happy that you are happily deceived. This is the type of democracy they are imposing on you on their Topix site.

At this stage you begin thinking what wrong you have done to them. If you have posted there some 6000 comments like Virginia Hoge did your banning would be at least understandable from the procedural point of view – they know her, they are afraid of her and don’t want to see her there anymore.

But what if you posted there for the first time? How do the Topix people know who I am and what my intentions are if they have not yet even published my letter there?

Does it mean that Topix moderators (yes, moderators) are following me on my blog and knowwhat I am going to say on their wholly democratic anti-Jackson forum?

Ordinary commenters could not press an abuse button on my post simply because they never saw it, didn’t they?

And even if they did press the abuse button it would have deleted the thread and not shadow banned it, right?

So am I supposed to think that I am being censored by the Topix forum moderators?

And if they are censoring a Michael Jackson supporter in advance aren’t all of them Michael Jackson’s haters?

Trolls will naturally say I was shadow banned because I’d been posting there on numerous occasions – to which I disagree.

Firstly, I know that I was writing there for the first time. Secondly, they also know that I know it. And thirdly, even if I try very hard I am totally incapable of masquerading as someone else as my English will always betray me to be a foreigner.

In fact I am unable even to understand what they are writing there – not to mention my total inability to imitate their style of writing (and thinking).

Since this post is meant to be a well-documented one here is the proof of what I am talking about. Let it be my contribution to the Topix deception portfolio and be another proof that you cannot believe everything you see on the Topix forum of “people’s” journalism.

Picture 1 shows you the way I see the main page of the Topix MJ forum.

The last line shown here lists my post called “For the attention of “vindicatefailedforwacko”. You see that the post is very much there.

Pic.1 This is the way I see the main page of the Topix forum. The post is there. It was made on Saturday, Jan.14

And picture 2 shows the same page of the Topix MJ forum the way others see it.

No matter how you search it for my post you will not find it. It is simply not there. Its place is taken by “MJ photo’s with Young boys vs. Women”.

Pic.2 And this is the way READERS see the same page. The post made on Saturday is missing. Both screen shots were made on January 16, 2012 (or two days after posting).

It seems that my personality is also becoming important for Topix.

You know what I have learned from one of the Topix threads about the fate of my letter on that forum?

I’ve been informed that my letter (the one that was unpublished) was reported to the Topix CEO himself, i.e. Mr. Chris Tolles – so apparently now I will be enjoying all the privileges of the attention they are paying to Ms.Virginia Hoge…

And it was reported by the very person whom I expected to apologize for the slander against our blog.

“I sent to ceo your idiotic claims”

7. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

By now we have obtained some clear facts indicating that the authors commenting on the anti-Jackson forum may actually be its moderators.

Virginia Hoge and many other people have also noticed a certain correlation between trolls and moderators, and even my first modest experience in dealing with Topix speaks to the same – at least on the Topix Michael Jackson forum.

Surprisingly, but the article Topix itself published on April 1, 2007 about the launch of its forums (what a day to select for starting the project! they definitely think us to be Fools!) provides substantial proof for the above point of view.

Let us recall the notable April 1, 2007 day in the Topix history:

A news community is born

In April 2007, we decided to open up our site, adding forums, to give anyone the power to discuss, edit and share the news that matters to them. Millions of people posted comments, adding more than 100,000 comments a day. And many of the most passionate discussions were happening at the local level. On March 4, 2010, Topix received its 100 Millionth comment.

We have combined the best technology with the strongest local participation to create the best destination for news and discussion. By giving everyone access to the tools to talk – and an audience to listen – Topix redefines what it means to make the news.

On April 1, 2007, it acquired the topix.com domain name and invited volunteers to edit the topics of their choice, on top of over 100 journalists and editors from various newspapers already signed up.[3]

The point about “inviting volunteers to edit the topics of their choice” attracted my attention, so I followed the link to the original article. It is taking us back to how it all started.

Is it possible that Topix managers simply forgot what they wrote back in 2007?

Today Topixis launching a new platform for citizen journalism on the web. We started in 2004 by automatically aggregating the news and localizing it by ZIP code. But based on the rapid growth we’ve seen in the past year in our local forums (1M users!), we’re now inviting members from our hyperlocal communities to take over the controls and help us edit the news.

…Topix editors have the ability to post news locally, either from the news stream we are aggregating, from our local forums, or new items of their own. We also have tiers of editors which will have the ability to help moderate our growing forums, and help the broader editor base work within our editorial guidelines.

Best of all, anyone cansubmit a story to the Topix editors. We even have a feature that supports remote submissions: If you have news about your town, or a cameraphone photo of something that you think your town should see, all you need to do is send it to the editors by emailing the story tozipcode@topix.com.

If a locality doesn’t have any editors yet, our roboblogger will handle posting of the news until humans take over.

Fortunately, thanks to our relationships with Gannett, Tribune and McClatchy (the top three newspaper co’s in the US), we already have over 100 journalists and editors from newspapers signed up in our system. They will edit and moderate alongside members of the public.

Consider this an open invitation to the rest — if you’re a news professional, please sign up and help us edit the news for your city.

There are hundreds of details I won’t go into in this post, and many that frankly we haven’t fully worked out yet. I’m sure the editors we sign up will play a large role in shaping the system as it develops. We’re tremendously excited about the potential of this platform to become a major force in local news. Sign up and add a voice to your town!

Up till now we’ve been somewhat in the dark as to who edits Topix on the Michael Jackson forum.

However now we have obtained first-hand evidence from Topix itself that their editors are mostly volunteers who “edit the topic of their choice” and who, according to Topix founders, help edit the news, help moderate their forums, work under the editorial guidelines and even “take over the controls”.

Let me translate what the above means for the news about Michael Jackson.

All the above “help” in moderating a forum about MJ means that a good deal of Michael’s haters who signed up upon hearing Topix’s call are now “editing” news about Michael, are “helping to moderate” the forum about him, and have been guiding its content ever since its beginning on April 1, 2007.

Of course Michael’s supporters probably volunteered too, however if you look at the names and posts of those who started back in 2007 and continue trashing Michael Jackson now you will see the same old familiar faces of Michael’s haters only.

Most probably Michael supporters simply did not survive there.

I am also a bit wary about the point concerning editorial guidelines. Though generally we understand guidelines as professional journalistic help – on the ethics of journalism and how to actually edit and moderate according to rules – we know how the media people themselves adhered to these principles when it came to Michael Jackson, and this is why the point about the editors’ “guidelines” sounds especially sinister to me.

You can have some idea of what guidelines Topix moderators receive from their management by the reply the Topix CEO Christ Tolles gave to some of his fellow journalists . This man makes it clear that what he is waging is a battle. A battle against journalism. A battle against ethics. A battle for a special kind of freedom which should depend “on the context of the day”.

You and your ilk have dysfunctional ethics around business which only existed during a narrow time when newspapers enjoyed local monopolies. The idea that it is somehow better for journalists to get to decide what is presented and discussed in public is nauseating.

Our Constitution discusses freedom of the press in the context of the day – when newspapers were directed partisan attack vehicles. The newspaper you worked for was notable in the publishing of anonymous commentary 300 years ago, and the man who built the media empire which bought it, Col. McCormick would likely be much more in tune with my view of the press than yours.

News is a weapon too important to leave to people who can’t even figure out how to run a profitable business.

I employ people and support livelihoods on what we do. The idea that somehow it is immoral to provide a forum for people is just arrogant and foolish.

The world is changing and you and yours are fading and will be forgotten by the billions of people enjoying the interaction they now exercise. The battle is won, the gate is crashed.

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All funds raised (donations) are given to the children of the streets, the orphanages and the Elementary School in Cameroon,we have 235 orphans in our camp.You call +237 77773554/73965146.GOD bless you for prompt reaction.

David, Charles Thomson’s article is great! The Topix people are playing their favourite games and are now busy setting up fake Charles Thomson email addresses from which they encourage people to upload pictures of young boys! The whole thing is outrageous but it DOES show the frame of mind of these people, doesn’t it? Figuratively speaking they are the ones who set the Reichstag on fire to accuse others of what they did – and all this is activity is taking place to consolidate their own influence in the society!

I disagree with Charles that some children are doing it – whoever they employ there for everyday harassment these are serious, grown-up people who know perfectly well what their goals are and why they are putting so much effort into this ridiculous activity which seems crazy only at first sight!

And I am more than happy to hear that Charles is now reporting from courtrooms where real pedophiles are being tried – this is exactly what needs to be done now! This is what he wrote about one case:

“I’ve seen judges get away with some pretty bizarre behavior too. On two occasions I’ve had stories published in national newspapers about judges letting off child sex offenders with ridiculously light sentences.

A teacher who downloaded child porn onto a school laptop and then ferried it between school and home got off without even an hour’s community service, despite a previous judge recommending custody. Another man with almost 5million child porn images, who described collecting the pictures as his ‘hobby’, was eligible for more than five years in prison but was sentenced to just thirty months, of which he will serve only fifteen. That story made front page of the local paper.”

Fifteen months for 5 mln. child porn pictures! And they wanted to imprison MJ for life for something he had never done! Fortunately Charles Thomson’s account made news in the local papers, though generally truth has little chance with newspapers as Charles says it himself speaking about another case:

“… when the case was called for verdict, a journalist from the organisation – who hadn’t attended a single other day of the trial – appeared in the courtroom just for the twenty-minute verdict reading. On the way out of the courtroom, she stopped me and asked, “Sorry – do you know what the charges are in this case?”

Despite the fact that this journalist had witnessed a grand total of twenty minutes of Emma Smiter’s three week trial and didn’t even know what charges Smiter had been convicted on, her copy was syndicated internationally. Meanwhile I, having witnessed the trial almost from beginning to end, couldn’t sell a story. Here’s why.

Newspapers pay subscription to news agencies or ‘wires’, whose copy arrives in the newsroom electronically and is technically already bought and paid for, whether they choose to use it or not. In an era of falling circulations, downsizing and dwindling freelance budgets some newspapers, when confronted with a choice between detailed freelance copy or superficial wire copy, will choose the wire copy for budgetary reasons. Why buy a freelancer’s version of the story when you’ve already paid for the wire copy?”

Since false news is no longer news at all, I hope that people will soon be fed up with lies they feed them with. I am truly looking forward to the time s when truth will be sought after by the public and people will pay to newspapers to be sure that what they read is truth and not lies!

It is like paying for clean bottled water in a place where everything else is muddy and contaminated, and it should be done!

With all due respect to those attempting to have a normal conversation with someone who has issues..( I wont use his name because seeing it in print on a computer may gratify him somehow imo…or make him a commission…..otherwise how else would this person get any attn..they would not of course..just the reflected attn from MJ.)
IMO…..if they are not on the clock……..
I would suspect this person is the first person on the dance floor when a J5/MJ song comes on ..they have bought all the MJ shirts , just conceal them..just posting crap about the person they cant understand their attraction to….
unless they are getting a paycheck….and its their job…
they are always into the latest stuff with MJ….. WWMJD……… the latest things going on with MJ ..hmmm
..so what is this about?..commerce ? sex appeal ?so someone making money ? I am betting ..yes.

Topix crosses a line that should never be crossed and in my opinion has become the trashiest site on the internet. Their business model is in bad need of change.The sad thing is all they would have to do is keep a closer track on the forums (more moderators, probably too many forums not every town needs one, etc) and require some type of registration like Disqus or others do and their reputation and advertising dollars would go up. If I were them, I would allow users to only comment on real stories (not the filth that site has become) and Topix generated polls and questions and political content. That would turn Topix into a real gem. I don’t know him personally obviously but I think Topix needs to rethink who their CEO is. Tolles always comes across bad in interviews and then has a bad habit of running to one of the Tech sites and trashing the media when he is called on the carpet. Please not I am not trashing him as a person, I have questioning the business of Topix. There seems to be a growing number of people and media sources concerned about the site and I know the Attorney General in Kentucky despises that website. That is not good long term business.

Lol, man who do you think you are to demand from people here to give you answers to your questions, which have already been given by the way but i guess you are too blind to read them? Do you really think that you are so important that people should try to convince you that MJ was not a criminal? Take a look at yourself and return to the real world.

I say block his ass. This stupid individual don’t need rational approach, he needs physiological help and surely we can’t provide it to him.

First off, MJ went through a trial where DD says that the entire force worked double time for a year on this case., everything the power of the United States Govt could throw at MJ was used..He walked out because he was completely innocent..
My questions are about the mindset of the prosecutors..
If some child comes in and says he had cancer and was disabled with alcohol and molested, first I don’t see anyone waiting and working behind the scenes 5 months or so before they make a case..like generals planning a war..

this isn’t some kind of white collar crime, this is supposed to be a vulnerable children,,
that doesn’t make sense at all…

so according to their case:
at some time mj gave them liquor both in his bedroom and the wine cellar, and i believe in the beginning they said his office also (which is why they had an excuse to search his office)

but they .didnt test any bottles?? for prints??.
I would have been curious to see if they found prints on the wine cellar key or the wine cellar since employees testified they had been caught drinking down there when mj was off premises..

then when it came to the magazines , the boys said they handled, they bring it for dna testing first?…not fingerprints!
Gavin and his brother said this molestation happened in the middle of the night , in bed.granted the story didnt add up but why would they be testing a magazine that was not involved in an ejaculation for dna?
wouldnt it make sense to test the bottles and magazines for prints and the bed for dna?
so the bed had no dna of gavins.
they didnt bother to test the bottles for prints.
the magazines didnt yield dna, of course..
and the print that they had was one in dispute from the transcripts of grand jury saying the prosecutor was handing gavin magazines with out gloves.
AND the snapshot of the page in question was then investigated by the defense and was from a magazine that hadnt come out for months after they left…
so that was B.S. too
If the boys had told a story involving dna/magazines at any time during questioning . and that is what lead them to test for that ,,, and none was found ..wouldnt that have told them something about how truthful these people were…
but the way they went about this testing is almost to cover their (prosecutors) tracks..
I do not see anyway this prosecution case was not meant to railroad someone into prison time..It is just too shady..

“I’ve made a distinct, legible list of my questions. Now write a distinct, legible list of your answers.”

I’ve left short comment in your message but am repeating the whole of it for your convenience:

Here are a few of the terrific explanations you fans have come up over the years:

Paying EC millions of dollars in hush money to drop the charges and walk away proves that MJ was innocent and EC accepting this immense fortune proves what a liar he was! Apparently rewarding an evil extortionist’s greed was MJ’s defense!

VMJ: Definition of “hush money” – “a bribe to keep someone silent about something, especially to keep the receiver from exposing a scandal.” If it was hush money it should have been paid BEFORE the scandal, not after it. I would call it prize money paid as a sad acceptance of the fact that the smart Larry Feldman outplayed Michael Jackson’s team.

Some mysterious, un-named insurance co. rushed in and threw millions of dollars into the wind to save an innocent man from having to defend himself!

VNJ: The money was paid to let the CIVIL trial go where only money was at stake anyway. If criminal charges had been made MJ would have gone to a criminal trial on which he insisted from the very start. However it was Jordan Chandler who didn’t want it and also from the very start of the process. His refusal to testify arrived only several months after the settlement. If he was too shy to testify they could have deposed him in the presence of Michael’s lawyers who would have cross-examined him. However he was never deposed – either before or after the settlement. Jordan Chandler admitted that he was “afraid of cross-examination”.

As regards insurance they did pay as Thomas Mesereau’s statements at the 2005 trial prove it. The only thing they didn’t want to do is make this fact public – for fear that it might become common practice among their clients. So officially they said they were “just looking into that possibility” while in reality they did pay, only hush-hush.

EC committed suicide cuz he felt guilty about what he did but not enough to return that money!

VMJ: Evan Chandler had nothing to return. Evan spent all his money on litigation over the next extortion from Michael – this time for $60mln. – in which he lost.

Even though the children had been given permission to crawl into bed with a 45 year old accused child molester, he insisted on sleeping on the floor instead!

VMJ: This statement is a three-storey lie. Michael was 45 in 2003, so you are talking about the Arvizos. The Arvizos insisted on staying in Michael’s room themselves (which makes us think they were planning extortion) and Michael was so much in doubt that he asked Frank Cascio to stay with them that night. Both of them were on the floor, while the Arvizos took the bed. Frank knew that nothing good would come of it, but Michael could not say No to Gavin whom he considered fatally ill. Hence the result.

And the phrase about Michael being an “accused child mol**ter” is a FLAT LIE. On the contrary, Michael Jackson was a fully acquitted innocent man!

MJ had vitiligo. That’s why he suddenly changed from a black man with patches of discolored skin into a ghastly white ghoul!

VMJ: Michael Jackson did have vitiligo of a generalized type which spread all over his body. If you don’t know simple things like that you are hopeless.

MJ was addicted to painkillers until the day he died as a result of scalp burns he received 25 years ago!

VMJ: Propofol is not a painkiller. He used it for sleep. Not the best medicine for it but this is the only thing that helped after he endured a 25 years torture by the inquisition like you.

MJ dangling his infant son over a 4th floor balcony railing was a glorious gesture of love!

VMJ: And what do you think it was? Do you seriously think he wanted to throw him away?

Even though MJ invited children to a party at HIS house and while they were in HIS care, they got drunk on HIS booze, the host of this party had nothing to do with it! It can all be blamed on the victim’s mother for things she did years before she met MJ!

VMJ: Interesting question which has an interesting answer. The empty bottles found by Tom Sneddon’s people in Michael Jackson’s home were considered evidence that Michael had treated the Arvizos to some booze. However Michael had been in Las Vegas for at least three weeks before the search warrant, so who those empty bottles belonged to, only God knows (as the prosecution did not analyze the fingerprints).

When milder sleeping medication didn’t work, this over the hill junky chose to ignore the sound advice of health care professionals and begged for the powerful anesthetic that he had recklessly been taking for years as a handy sleeping pill, so Dr. Evil murdered him!

VMJ: This powerful anesthetic is administered to millions of people in hospitals during various procedures and no one dies of it. So it is not the anesthetic which is to blame, but Doctor Ignorance, Neglect and Dishonesty who murdered the man.

“I shouldn’t be allowed to invite children into my bedroom but it’s perfectly acceptable for Michael Jackson to let kids into his bed cuz he wasn’t ordinary, he was unique in his generosity, love and trust for others. Are you kiddin’ me???

This wasn’t what I said. Your question was: “I assume that you’d be OK with it if I invited your little brother or sister into my unsupervised bedroom and took them to bed with me, right? No?”

My answer was:

“No, especially if you “invite” them to your bedroom.

– MJ never “invited” anyone into his quarters. His bedroom/sitting room was a natural center of the house where all people spent time. Everyone WANTED to be there. Considering that people coming to Neverland came there because they were attracted to Michael, it was absolutely natural for them to want to be beside him.

– Not all celebrities allow their friends into their private quarters. But Michael Jackson did and never forbade anyone to hang out in his room (and even allowed everyone to rake in his closet). He let friends stay in his house when he was away. Few people do that and it was probably a not very wise thing to do from the point of view of ordinary people – but Michael wasn’t ordinary, he was unique in his generosity, love and trust for others.

– Whenever someone “unsupervised” stayed in that room, it was always with total consent and approval of the children’s parents. These people knew Michael well and trusted him with their children. Now both parents and their grown up children vehemently support Michael’s innocence, and if NOTHING “out of the way” happened, there is no reason for any of us (outsiders) to accuse Michael of anything. The only people who can judge are Michael’s friends alone and as for us – it is simply none of our business.

So answering your question, if you never invite anyone to your room, but your friends and their children like you so much that they follow you 24 hours a day everywhere you go, and parents really know you and trust you with their children like they trust themselves, and nothing bad ever happens, then the answer is Yes. Otherwise it is No.

“How is that a standard for us to live by??“

We are not talking of standards to live by. We are talking about Michael being innocent in spite of the fact that his lifestyle made him extremely vulnerable to accusations. Accusations were made, but none of them proved to be true. I understand that people who hate Michael would prefer their suspicions to be confirmed – but none of them were, so haters should now learn to live with the fact that Michael was innocent despite all their dissatisfaction with him.

I don’t recommend his lifestyle to anyone because I doubt there is another person on earth like Michael Jackson who has both his talents and fame, and unique challenges in life like the need to work from age 5, vitiligo, lupus and media harassment, all of which determined his lifestyle.

In the same way I don’t recommend to everyone the lifestyle of another person in history who travelled with 12 male companions and was followed by a crowd. The companions abandoned their families and at least one of them he didn’t allow even to bury a parent saying “let the dead bury their dead”. He took some food from a temple where it had been left as a sacrifice and at another time overthrew tables there. It was sheer hooliganism for those times and few dare live by that standard even now – however this person remains highly respected and very much loved in the whole world.

“Even though the children had been given permission to crawl into bed with a 45 year old accused child molester, he insisted on sleeping on the floor instead!”

That is a fact the thing with you is that when its not what you want to hear you say its a lie!

“MJ had vitiligo. That’s why he suddenly changed from a black man with patches of discolored skin into a ghastly white ghoul!”

Well its been proven he had Vitiligo in the Murray Trial but as usual we see you have problems eating up facts.

“Even though MJ invited children to a party at HIS house and while they were in HIS care, they got drunk on HIS booze, the host of this party had nothing to do with it! It can all be blamed on the victim’s mother for things she did years before she met MJ!”

Why don’t you focus on Hugh Hefner who IS still alive and has underage teens drinking and doing other stuff!

The truth is you don’t give a damn about children especially Jackson’s accusers!

BTW VindicateMJ i think this guy is the one who is running “MJfacts” haters website because he so so desperate for anything and deluded.

I shouldn’t be allowed to invite children into my bedroom but it’s perfectly acceptable for Michael Jackson to let kids into his bed cuz he wasn’t ordinary, he was unique in his generosity, love and trust for others.

Are you kiddin’ me??? How is that a standard for us to live by?? It’s not acceptable to sleep with children unless you’re super special and wonderful???

Gimme a break!!

That guy down the street was being generous and told you about how “loving” he is!! He was dressed up as a happy clown and was inviting kids inside for some FREE goodwill milk and cookies!!! You wouldn’t want to assume that he’s up to something sinister, right? YOU MIGHT HURT HIS FEELINGS!!

Here are a few of the terrific explanations you fans have come up over the years:

Paying EC millions of dollars in hush money to drop the charges and walk away proves that MJ was innocent and EC accepting this immense fortune proves what a liar he was! Apparently rewarding an evil extortionist’s greed was MJ’s defense!

VMJ: Definition of “hush money” – “a bribe to keep someone silent about something, especially to keep the receiver from exposing a scandal.” If it was hush money it should have been paid BEFORE the scandal, not after it. I would call it prize money paid as a sad acceptance of the fact that the smart Larry Feldman outplayed Michael Jackson’s team.

Some mysterious, un-named insurance co. rushed in and threw millions of dollars into the wind to save an innocent man from having to defend himself!

VNJ: The money was paid to let the CIVIL trial go where only money was at stake anyway. If criminal charges had been made MJ would have gone to a criminal trial on which he insisted from the very start. However it was Jordan Chandler who didn’t want it and also from the very start of the process. His refusal to testify arrived only several months after the settlement. If he was too shy to testify they could have deposed him in the presence of Michael’s lawyers who would have cross-examined him. However he was never deposed – either before or after the settlement. Jordan Chandler admitted that he was “afraid of cross-examination”.

As regards insurance they did pay as Thomas Mesereau’s statements at the 2005 trial prove it. The only thing they didn’t want to do is make this fact public – for fear that it might become common practice among their clients. So officially they said they were “just looking into that possibility” while in reality they did pay, only hush-hush.

EC committed suicide cuz he felt guilty about what he did but not enough to return that money!

VMJ: Evan Chandler had nothing to return. Evan spent all his money on litigation over the next extortion from Michael – this time for $60mln. – in which he lost.

Even though the children had been given permission to crawl into bed with a 45 year old accused child molester, he insisted on sleeping on the floor instead!

VMJ: This statement is a three-storey lie. Michael was 45 in 2003, so you are talking about the Arvizos. The Arvizos insisted on staying in Michael’s room themselves (which makes us think they were planning extortion) and Michael was so much in doubt that he asked Frank Cascio to stay with them that night. Both of them were on the floor, while the Arvizos took the bed. Frank knew that nothing good would come of it, but Michael could not say No to Gavin whom he considered fatally ill. Hence the result. And the phrase about Michael being an accused ch.mol-ter is a flat lie. On the contrary, he was a fully acquitted innocent man!

“MJ had vitiligo. That’s why he suddenly changed from a black man with patches of discolored skin into a ghastly white ghoul!”

VMJ: Michael Jackson did have vitiligo of a generalized type which spread all over his body. If you don’t know simple things like that you are hopeless.

MJ was addicted to painkillers until the day he died as a result of scalp burns he received 25 years ago!

VMJ: Propofol is not a painkiller. He used it for sleep. Not the best medicine for it but this is the only thing that helped after he endured a 25 years torture by the inquisition like you.

MJ dangling his infant son over a 4th floor balcony railing was a glorious gesture of love!

VMJ: And what do you think it was? Do you seriously think he wanted to throw him away?

Even though MJ invited children to a party at HIS house and while they were in HIS care, they got drunk on HIS booze, the host of this party had nothing to do with it! It can all be blamed on the victim’s mother for things she did years before she met MJ!

VMJ: Interesting question which has an interesting answer. The empty bottles found by Tom Sneddon’s people in Michael Jackson’s home were considered evidence that Michael was treating the Arvizos to some booze. However Michael had been in Las Vegas for at least three weeks before the search warrant, so who those empty bottles belonged to, only God knows (as the prosecution did not analyze the fingerprints).

When milder sleeping medication didn’t work, this over the hill junky chose to ignore the sound advice of health care professionals and begged for the powerful anesthetic that he had recklessly been taking for years as a handy sleeping pill, so Dr. Evil murdered him!

VMJ: This powerful anesthetic is administered to millions of people in hospitals during various procedures and no one dies of it. So it is not the anesthetic which is to blame but Doctor Ignorance, Neglect and Dishonesty who murdered the man.

Sorry, I don’t consider “cuz he’s Michael Jackson!” a suitable answer! I’ve made a distinct, legible list of my questions. Now write a distinct, legible list of your answers. It’s simple!! I’m not going to go back and sift through your insults and far-fetched conspiracy theories! Just give me logical answers. I’m not talking asking you to repeat the handy alibis provided to you by Mighty MJ Machine either cuz they don’t make sense! I’m asking for you to reach down into your gut and tell me why you think MJ should be granted special privileges the rest of us ordinary slobs don’t have!

Stonegrooved or whoever you are. Your questions have been answered by numerous people here, so you have enough to think about.

However I see that you are not able to meet even my small request to keep silent while I am away. The reason I asked is because you and your companions insulted my co-admins in a most outrageous manner and it is quite understandable that they want to delete you here. I asked them to never have any dialogue with Topix people, and I am sorry that by being so lenient to you I forced Lynette to engage in a conversation.

I feel that I let them down by allowing you to speak here at all. This is why I want to correct my mistake.

If you want to continue here the first thing you should do is APOLOGIZE on behalf of your Topix companions for the outrageous lies told about my co-admins (and me).

Let me remind you that your people went as far as calling us child mol*****!

Is that right? Well, considering I don’t find you interesting enough to read all your blather, lemme break it down for you:

1. If it isn’t right for unrelated adults to take other people’s children to bed with them, why is it OK for MJ? Why are the rules different for this guy?

2. How did MJ fawning over a handful of boys in his unsupervised bedroom make him a wonderful human being? Why couldn’t he be a responsible adult and serve ALL of those kids milk and cookies in their own beds?

3. If MJ is such a great role model, who’s gonna decide if an adult is “nice enough” to take other people’s children into their beds?

4. How would you console the frantic parents if the worst happened and a child got raped?

5. If MJ was too special to be bother defending himself in civil court, why should decent, law-abiding citizens call him “innocent?”

OK, give me the condensed versions of your answers now! Bear in mind that I’m not going to accept, “Cuz he’s Michael Jackson!” as an answer!! Explain them in a way a stupid, non-worshiper like me can understand!!

Well, am I allowed to speak here now cuz if I’m not, I have no interest in readin your endless brain farts!

You can certainly speak if you feel that you must but have you read the list of rules that I referenced before? I think that excludes remarks like “brain farts”. I will give everyone due respect but I ask that they do the same in return. Respect is not exclusively earned there is something known as due respect. That is the same respect that you would give to anyone just because they are a human. Now If you would like to talk about this can I ask you which court documents that you read that have you so completely convinced that this happened? Will you agree that if I give you evidence to the contrary you will not get angry and resort to the ad hominem attacks and name calling? Even if you don’t agree with any evidence that I may give to you will you agree to disagree with me in a civil if not friendly fashion?
lynande51

Is this even close to the real scenario? Why would we take Michael out of the equation it is him that we speak about isn’t it?
Let me give you another scenario. Suppose there was a family that had used their children to get money on countless occasions. The mother had repeatedly when she sued people always added that there was sexual abuse. Suppose this family said that their child was dying so that they could get money from countless celebrities not just Michael Jackson. Suppose this family actually kept a small appartment just to invite people to so they would appear poor. What would you call that when they accused you of molesting their son? You like to say that kids rarely lie about this but the fact is that they do and it happens much more often than you think.You don’t have to believe me just ask Ed Chernoff, one of his specialties is representing kids that have made these false accusations. You wouldn’t think that there would be a need for a legal specialty if this rarely occured do you?

We don’t want you on board. I will repeat myself once again. What you are using as an example did not happen after 1993. It was written that way in a prosecution pleading and that is not even what was said in the program. The outtakes were seen by the jury. The reason that Michael was aquitted is that the Arvizo’s were proven liars. You have to pick pleadings from both sides to know that. The Martin Bashir documetary was very edited and what was truly said by Michael was taken out. It was a professional editing job that was prepared to say what Bashir wanted it to say.

You don’t know if someone else is doing it or not right now as we speak do you?But better question would be why would you have to fear prison? Is there something that you want to do that you can’t because of how you actually feel about children?
I don’t think that there would be a good enough answer to you question from us. You think he slept with children, boys specifically and that did not happen. What more could we possible say? You are believing a lie. No one here can help you with that.

I think it is because your previous comments have made us all feel like you might be a threat to children. I think you speak for yourself when you want other peoples children in your bed. Michael was falsley accused and I think you are fully aware of that. So what is it that you really want.

If Michael had slept in the bed with anyone else after 1993 what you say migh tmake sense. Did you get in trouble on Topix today? Why bother coming here when you knew that you would not be the most welcome commentor here?

No one said he looked sweet and innocent. I’m puzzled by what exactly you goal is with this comment. Are you defending P*******. Do you say what you say because you are an advocate for the lowering of the age of consent? That is almost what that sounds like.

Nothing I have read from you appeared to be an attempt at opeing the lines of communication. Most of your comments that I have been repying to have seemed particularly hostile toward us. What started to bother you so much today?

There were only ever 2 accusers. It is you and before you Evan Chandler that made the suggestion that others were abused no one else. Allowing close family friends into a 2 bedroom loft and allowing them to use the bed while you sleep on the floor is not “luring”, or inviting. Even the 2 accusers said that they were the ones that asked or rather begged to be allowed in there. It was granted with full permission of the 2 boys parent. IN the case of the Arvizo family it was their mother sitting right there. Prior to them no one other than very close family friends were allowed in there. Have you read the entire testimony of that trial? Along with over a thousand pleadings?

This is very disingenous of you. It is you that repeatedly call us floons among other names whenever you come here to comment. Writing in all capital letters is shouting in internet terms. I think you would be wise to follow the lead that you have suggested and then return for a reasonable deabte.

@ kackerjacks I you were to have read our rules you would see that they are already written out for you. We request that you kindly read through them and return after you have that way a real debate can be exchanged.

If you want to prove that you can be honest and be relied upon you will have to stop writing now as I need to have some sleep. Was it you who said that I never sleep? This was a correct observation and it is due to the time difference.

If you go on with your incessant writing now I will ask my co-admins to delete any of your statements they think fit. Over here we never squabble with anyone the way you do it on Topix. If you want to prove your point give us facts and make it in one message please – and not a hundred with one sentence only. Since there will be a period while I am away I would appreciate it if you used this time to get familiar with some of our research.

The reason he is hanging out here is because he has been proven wrong at other places.

you have had answers!

BTW we are still waiting on a answer on why you are obsessed with someone who you truly believe was a CM And troll his videos 24/7 and discuss him 24/7. hmm my guess is you have an unhealthy fetish with CM’S.

Oh, I see you’ve put a few back up. What’s wrong with the rest of them?? I didn’t curse anyone out here!! Even when your brood was doing that to me, I avoided them!!

You know why because some of the people here didn’t know who you were unlike me i have seen you trolling you tube since 2009 and you are someone who is not civil does not deserve any respect you come here put on the pretend facade that your a good guy but we see right through you.

Pretend a child that you care about just told you that the weirdo down the street molested him or her. When you confront this guy, he’s wearing a clown outfit and inviting kids inside for milk and cookies! He tells you, “Don’t worry about it! I’m just a big 45 year old kid myself!” When you call the cops, they say this guy got accused of molesting children a few years ago.

Your situation HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MJ. I don’t understand why you are giving it as an example.

What do you think it tells the public when you leave the comments you approve of, direct responses to MY comments, and then remove the person they’re addressed to? That’s some informative reading there, huh???

he keeps wanting answers from us we keep delivering but he just twist it he still hasn’t answered our question of why he obsessed with guys he thinks were CM’s and someone he claimed to dislike him and his actions.

Obviously vindicatemj has begun to delete the responses they don’t approve of so I’ll ask this one again. Hopefully you can read it before they wipe it off the map!!

Remove MJ from this situation:

Pretend a child that you care about just told you that the weirdo down the street molested him or her. When you confront this guy, he’s wearing a clown outfit and inviting kids inside for milk and cookies! He tells you, “Don’t worry about it! I’m just a big 45 year old kid myself!” When you call the cops, they say this guy got accused of molesting children a few years ago.

“The only people who can judge are Michael’s friends alone and as for us – it is simply none of our business.”

WRONG!!! When someone hurts our children, they hurt ALL of us!!!

Try this one:

Remove MJ from this situation:
Pretend a child that you care about just told you that the weirdo down the street molested him or her. When you confront this guy, he’s wearing a clown outfit and inviting kids inside for milk and cookies! He tells you, “Don’t worry about it! I’m just a big 45 year old kid myself!” When you call the cops, they say this guy got accused of molesting children a few years ago.

“I assume that you’d be OK with it if I invited your little brother or sister into my unsupervised bedroom and took them to bed with me, right? No?”

No, especially if you “invite” them to your bedroom.

– MJ never “invited” anyone into his quarters. His bedroom/sitting room was a natural center of the house where all people spent time. Everyone WANTED to be there. Considering that people coming to Neverland came there because they were attracted to Michael, it was absolutely natural for them to want to be beside him.

– Not all celebrities allow their friends into their private quarters. But Michael Jackson did and never forbade anyone to hang out in his room (and even allowed everyone to rake in his closet). He let friends stay in his house when he was away. Few people do that and it was probably a not very wise thing to do from the point of view of ordinary people – but Michael wasn’t ordinary, he was unique in his generosity, love and trust for others.

– Whenever someone “unsupervised” stayed in that room, it was always with total consent and approval of the children’s parents. These people knew Michael well and trusted him with their children. Now both parents and their grown up children vehemently support Michael’s innocence, and if NOTHING “out of the way” happened, there is no reason for any of us (outsiders) to accuse Michael of anything. The only people who can judge are Michael’s friends alone and as for us – it is simply none of our business.

So answering your question, if you never invite anyone to your room, but your friends and their children like you so much that they follow you 24 hours a day everywhere you go, and parents really know you and trust you with their children like they trust themselves, and nothing bad ever happens, then the answer is Yes. Otherwise it is No.

Stonegrooved – do we actually have to create charts and graphs for you to understand — maybe a pop up book would be better for you! This site would not exist if anything that you are saying was the truth. Do you truly not get that?

“Personally, I think hating a pedophile is a natural reaction. What ISN’T a natural reaction is instantlly rushing to the side of a twice accused child molester and calling children liars!!!”

You did it again Nutkracker you know what else isn’t a natural reaction is for someone who truly believes a person was a CM and they hate them yet is obsessed with that person 24/7 watching his videos talking about him 24/7

Personally, I think hating a pedophile is a natural reaction. What ISN’T a natural reaction is instantlly rushing to the side of a twice accused child molester and calling children liars!!!

You did it again Nutkracker you know what else isn’t a natural reaction is for someone who truly believes a person was a CM and they hate them yet is obsessed with that person 24/7 watching his videos talking about him 24/7

Ok, i see now who you are. I remembered. Yes,i made the mistake to spend time on you. You need help man and not answers to you Michael Jackson questions. If you believe he did something to kids, go ahead. But obviously those jurors in that court believed otherwise and that’s why acquitted him.

By the way, and i think that i have mention this to you again, the fact that you hope that Jackson molested kids only for having the pleasure to point the a finger on fans face and say “haha, i told you so. Yes” says a lot about you mental condition. You are not well man. Ask for professional help and stop obsessing over a man that you don’t have in much consideration.It’s not healthy.

“Since there is not a single evidence that MJ did something to kids why do you continue this hate crusade?”

I suppose you don’t call the drawings Jordan drew of MJ’s penis “evidence!” That’s funny, cuz they sure scared the hell out of MJ!! MJ held out paying EC the money he wanted until Jordie drew those pictures, then suddenly he panicked and gave everything Chandler was after and then some!!

Why would an innocent man do that??

Personally, I think hating a pedophile is a natural reaction. What ISN’T a natural reaction is instantlly rushing to the side of a twice accused child molester and calling children liars!!!

MJ knew all those kids in advance??? How did he do this miraculous thing when thousands of children passed threw the gates of Neverland?? Evan Chandler accused MJ of molesting his child less than a year of when they first met!! I wouldn’t call that being an old, close friend of the family!!

krackerjacks AKA: IamStoneGrooved – I’m going to answer your question for you and I hope that you will comprehend what I”m saying because you seem to be extremely close minded. No one on this site believes for one moment that Michael Jackson molested anyone so once again your question is pointless. Further, no one on this site would in any shape, form or fashion condone molestation by absolutely anyone. Again, the point of this site is to take the many, many lies that are out there (the very ones you want to hold on to so dearly) and refute them. Why don’t you take a few minutes and actually read the posts that have been thoroughly researched rather than just commenting and trying to fight your way into some sort of submission that you will never get from anyone on this site.

You asked Julie but what the hell, let me give a shot on this. Wont be ask articulate as Julie’s answer would have been but i will try my best

– I assume that you’d be OK with it if I invited your little brother or sister into my unsupervised bedroom and took them to bed with me, right?–

Not OK at all. I would have a big problem with that.

-No? How about your innocent son or daughter? Still no?? WHY NOT???-

Again the answer is no.

-You would let MJ, right? And why is that? Cuz he he assured you he isn’t Jack the Ripper??? Like me, you’ve never met him before, right?-

I wouldn’t let my kids, sister, brother sleep in Mike’s room, if i didn’t know him, if i personally didn’t know who he was. But you are so conveniently leaving out of your question the fact that people who spend time in MJ’s room and left their kids sleep there, KNEW Michael Jackson. They knew him, they knew who he was. They didn’t need him to assure them that he wasn’t Jack the ripper because they knew he wasn’t Jack the ripper because,again, THEY KNEW HIM PERSONALLY!! Got it, get it, good. I hope we are making a progress.

-I HAVE NEVER BEEN ACCUSED OF MOLESTING CHILDREN IN MY LIFE!! MJ has. So why is it ok if he does it???-

It not ok. He should have permitted to kids who WANTED to spend time in his room because he was Michael Jackson, the biggest star ever, probably their hero, a person who their admired and wanted to be like, to stay there. It was a wrong decision of his but after the 1993 allegation no kid GIRL or boy spend time in his room without a second adult person being there.

But i have a question for you. Since there is not a single evidence that MJ did something to kids why do you continue this hate crusade? Only because he made a comment that you do not agree with? He didn’t advocate something, pedophilia, abuse, violence he just said what he felt because that is what he felt.

how is it bad ass because i question and give you answers you cant find a reply to not my fault that i am smarter than you.

“If you can explain why he should be allowed to get away with things that I wouldn’t dream of doing”

He didn’t he went to trial your so behind catch up and as for 1993 its not his fault his accuser never wanted to testify against him and his father stopped responding to cops the settlement didn’t stop them from taking him to a bigger trial. case was open for 6 bloody years.

krackerjacks AKA: IamStoneGrooved – your question is ridiculous krackerjacks because I don’t know you so you can’t even go there and it’s the same ridiculous question that once again gets repeated by the media. Anyone who was ever in Michael Jackson’s home were all people that knew and their families — there has never been any substantiated evidence that Michael Jackson invited strange children anywhere so you just need to stop with your analogy of trying to equate apples with oranges.

Using your logic – no adult male or female should be in close proximity with any child that does not share DNA. The problem with that is that there a way too many children to count who are actually molested by people in their own families AND as vindicatemj pointed out – molestation can take place anywhere and at any time of day. So having said that – your question cannot hold water. You need to admit that you have no concrete evidence whatsoever that Michael Jackson EVER molested anyone, but that in your mind you think he did because you choose to. THEN, you need to seek some sort of help for your obsession and seems to have taken over your life.

Eh she doesn’t know you neither do I and who said your telling the truth i mean you have already proven you are not the civilian you claim to be or right in the head for that matter since your behavior is not normal especially for a someone who claims he is a grown man i actually feel sorry for your kids if your fortunate to have any like if their school teacher asks them what does your dad do for a living and he/she responded by saying he searches up a guy he believes was a CM 24/7 he is so obsessed with him eh? think about that.

What do you suppose was stopping MJ from being the responsible adult he portrayed himself as and when those kids asked to sleep in his bed saying, “No, that wouldn’t be appropriate but there’s a nice safe bed for you in my guestroom with the others and in the morning we can all go ride my roller coaster together?”

You know, LIKE A RESPONSIBLE ADULT WOULD DO???

How did MJ fawning over a handful of selected children (underaged boys, to be specific.) in his unsupervised bedroom make him a wonderful human being???

Don’t you think the rest of those kids would have been served milk and cookies too?

What was stopping Mr. Wonderful from serving ALL those kids milk and cookies in THEIR OWN BEDS????

“How can you make a stink about pedophiles in Hollywood and then turn around and tell us that MJ taking untold numbers of children into his bed was a beautiful thing to do??”

1. Michael Jackson did not “take” anyone into his bed. But he readily gave it to others when they wanted to.

2. There was no “untold number of children”. It is a grave exaggeration.

3. I don’t understand your preoccupation with “bed” issues. Molestation can take place anywhere.

4. Whether you like it or not, but there are NO facts of Michael’s guilt.

5. All accusations against MJ turned out to be lies. Jordan Chandler was a liar too. His description never matched and this is all that matters.

6. Irrespective of slumber parties being beautiful or not, for all his decisions in life Michael answered many times over by the extreme hatred and extreme harassment he was subjected to. He had much, much more than his “misbehavior” deserved. The cause and consequence are incomparable in volume and intensity, and that is why the balance now should be restored.

7. On the other hand real pedophiles never answered for what they have been doing for decades.

8. That is why it is time to handle the real problem and not the fictional one which was invented by someone to cover up for real crimes.

Don’t need to put any words in your mouth since you put them yourself 😀

Riddle me this genius, how would you console the heartbroken parents of a child that ended up getting raped by some guy that was following your hero’s advice? (As one eventually would.)

Yep you are insinuating if someone who likes MJ raped someone then its MJ’s fault if the person was truly following michael he/she would know not to rape since that isnt what Michael said or did for that matter he said share your bed and you have no proof (other than your own sick mind) otherwise that he said perform sexual acts on kids its a good thing everyone should do it.

krackerjacks AKA: IamStoneGrooved – I, like Truth Prevail, do not speak on behalf of this site; however, I do comment on this site so please allow me to break it down for you. You have taken a statement made by Michael Jackson in which he stated there was nothing wrong with “sharing” your bed and turning that into something that it’s not nor was it ever. If you personally feel that it is morally wrong to be in the same room and/or in a bed or even sitting in a chair in close proximity as a youth that you are not related to — then that’s your personal thought process. When you use the terms “lure” or “usher,” then YOU are making it sexual. That is where your mind is at — that does NOT make it so. You cannot provide one single shred of evidence that Michael Jackson picked up strange children he had never laid eyes on and drug them back to his house and to his bedroom (which is basically what you are accusing him of). There is not one single iota of evidence of that at all. For some reason, you are so obsessed with what is truly your own personal perception with no facts to back it up that you have been on a massive crusade on every youtube of Michael Jackson and/or story about him so you and others who share your same unsubstantiated bias even after almost 3 years since his death to slander, repeat lies and basically trash someone you have never met, or did not know personally in any way to form any true opinion of and it says way more about your character than anyone else’s. In case you don’t get it — the point of this site is to take the lies, innuendos and gossip and research it to see if there is any merit and so far each and every lie can be refuted.

You, and your good friends at TOPIX, choose not to research absolutely anything because that might take more effort than to just sit at a computer and spew hate for no reason. That’s your choice. But to slander the people on this site just because each one of them has actually put time and effort into researching these posts is truly downright reprehensible.

You do not present facts with your responses — only the same old tired nonsense that was misstated repeatedly by the media.

I didn’t say MJ raped ANYONE!!!! Are you putting words into my mouth now?? I said what would you do if some guy was just doing what MJ said would make the world a better place and the worst happened!! Can’t you put this into perspective?? WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THE FAIRYTALE BACKFIRED???

I made my choice. My choice was to come here and peacefully ask you to allow opposing points of view on your website. I’ve written to other non-fans and requested that they keep it respectable too. It’s all I can do. If ANYONE flies off the deep end and resorts to name calling and vulgar insults, no one could hold it against you for blocking them. (Personally, I would consider someone telling me to go jerk off and you calling me names abusive, but apparently you don’t.) For you to call me a troll and act like you’re completely inflexible on this matter doesn’t give me much hope.

“It doesn’t matter if you give MJ special privledges nobody else is allowed to have!! There are very good reasons why “luring” or “ushering” or “sweetly opening the door to his bedroom and letting those children inside” is considered unacceptable in every society on this planet!!
IT’S CALLED PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN!!!!
MJ went on the air and announced that the world would be a better place if more adults took other people’s children to bed with them!
Riddle me this genius, how would you console the heartbroken parents of a child that ended up getting raped by some guy that was following your hero’s advice? (As one eventually would.)
Would you say, “Oops, sorry `bout that! Michael told us this was an OK thing to do??”

Fact check moron Michael never said rape he said give your bed to someone is the most nice thing to do stop projecting what you would alone with kids on Michael or anyone else for that matter.

“Exactly when did that become an acceptable thing to do”

Says the guy who searches up someone 24/7 who he truly believes Was a CM someone he claims to dislike and his actions also supports a site that ACTUALLY has ruined children! Now tell me quack is that acceptable!

“I’m a “troll,” eh? I come here to request a civil debate and you thank someone that tells me to go jerk off to Martin Bashir??? Nice. I suppose next you’re going to write page after page of self serving guff about how non-fans are a bunch of unreasonable idiots, right???”

Yes, you are a troll. As regards “jerking off” I have some suppositions what it is but am not sure. You are not an idiot and you know what you are doing. And I really ask you to think whether you should go on with it. Everything depends on your own choice.

If you ask me, the direction we should be facing is addressing why you fans think the entire world should see things on MJ’s terms! Until you can manage to make what he did acceptable behavior for us all, you don’t stand a chance. Rational people will always hold him to the same standards we have for ourselves and I wouldn’t let ANYONE repeatedly take other people’s children into their beds without raising my voice in protest!! ESPECIALLY when millions of you think I should turn a blind eye to and just concentrate on how sweet and innocent he looks!! How can you make a stink about pedophiles in Hollywood and then turn around and tell us that MJ taking untold numbers of children into his bed was a beautiful thing to do??

Fine with me. If you think maintaining this level of hostility is helping promote MJ’s peaceful image, knock yourself out. All I was trying to do is negotiate a reasonable pact between you and us as means of opening up the lines of communication . If you want to knock it out of my hands and carry on spitting out your contempt for people that don’t share your points of view, it can go that way too. I’m not even close to being finished!

I’m a “troll,” eh? I come here to request a civil debate and you thank someone that tells me to go jerk off to Martin Bashir??? Nice. I suppose next you’re going to write page after page of self serving guff about how non-fans are a bunch of unreasonable idiots, right???

“Sounds like a declaration of war to me!! Is that about the size of it? Do you think all this unresolved rage is doing MJ’s legacy a favor?”

No one is declaring a war on you. For some reason I am not even enraged by you. All I see is that you are doing a job. Please think whether you should – you are only harming yourself this way. If you are such a fighter of pedophilia join us in our fight against it. You are just looking in the wrong direction.

This is the direction we should all be looking in – Corey Feldman says he was SURROUNDED by pedophiles in Hollywood when he was 14 years old. SURROUNDED!

I was watching some videos and left the blog for some time – and here is what I see when I come back. Why all this haters’ activity all of a sudden???

Is it a pure coincidence that as soon as I posted a video of a photographer speaking about some real but prominent ped-les a MJ hater suddenly surfaced?

The photographer was telling of parties between some powerful people back in the 80s and children. Here is one more episode from the same series (I’ve omitted part 2 as it contains some names which I don’t want to be mentioned – things like that need to be verified):

It doesn’t matter if you give MJ special privledges nobody else is allowed to have!! There are very good reasons why “luring” or “ushering” or “sweetly opening the door to his bedroom and letting those children inside” is considered unacceptable in every society on this planet!!

IT’S CALLED PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN!!!!

MJ went on the air and announced that the world would be a better place if more adults took other people’s children to bed with them!

Riddle me this genius, how would you console the heartbroken parents of a child that ended up getting raped by some guy that was following your hero’s advice? (As one eventually would.)

Would you say, “Oops, sorry `bout that! Michael told us this was an OK thing to do??”

nothing is progressing when talking to you Nutkracker so you know what i have other stuff to do you know i have something you obviously don’t have a Life and since you have been beaten countless times now i think ill leave you to stew Troll talk to yourself.

Sounds like a declaration of war to me!! Is that about the size of it? Do you think all this unresolved rage is doing MJ’s legacy a favor? Do you think that your hate will help the world remember MJ as a “man of peace??????”

Again Nutkracker he never ushered any kid into his bed they assisted that doesn’t prove anything anyway as so many other kids slept in his bed NOT with him although you wish he was doing something sinister to those kids the way you are always on about it just because you would do something sexual to kids if you got that near them doesn’t mean everyone else is like you. .

Listen pal, if you wanna split hairs over a word like “lured,” you must call arguing entertainment! How about MJ “ushered” children into his bed, is that better? The cold, hard fact is that Michael J. Jackson did indeed allow unrelated children into his bed on a regular basis!!!! Exactly when did that become an acceptable thing to do?? Cuz Mr. Wonderful did it??

you’d love it if we stopped our on going vindication not going to happen! you are not a person to have a sensible debate with because you are beaten we just provide you facts then you cant take it and just recall back to the same thing you were saying before “he was guilty because he lured kids into his bedroom” your a copy and paste job and you don’t have a leg to stand on and you know it now your squirming because we have exposed your website of you and your website of lies.

Why have a debate with someone who has already 100 times over been proven wrong 😀

I assure you, so long as you keep a civil tongue in your heads, I would do likewise. I would also try to encourage other to do the same. But I can give you a money back guarantee that if you guys continue to do business as usual, you’re going to keep stoking the fire of this debate! People don’t take kindly to being told to shut up!!

“One last thing, the reason people are so aggressively opposed to you guys is due to the way you call anyone that doesn’t think the way you do foul names, then degrade them on your website and don’t allow them to defend themselves!!! What do you suggest now, that these people that you have flagrantly enraged should be censored??”

Krackerjacks you just described yourself it is you and the rest of your crooked clan who troll sanemjfans twitter page it is you who troll youtube vids of michael jackson since 09 i think i see the power of vindication is really strong for you to comprehend.

“won’t allow them to defend themselves”

Awwww want a tissue if you do don’t expect one from me Hypocrite how do you think Michael Jacksons family feels and his fans when your still slandering him even whens hes passed away and you dont have a shred of evidence to say he was guilty of any crime your a copy and paste job and you just repeat the same thing kids went to his bedroom so thats means hes guilty.

Guess it doesn’t hurt to taste the medicine once in a while!

Now go and jerk of to Martin Bashir the one u admitted you loved. You said it!! Not me!

One last thing, the reason people are so aggressively opposed to you guys is due to the way you call anyone that doesn’t think the way you do foul names, then degrade them on your website and don’t allow them to defend themselves!!! What do you suggest now, that these people that you have flagrantly enraged should be censored??

By the way, Topix doesn’t have an “anything goes” policy. They don’t allow profanity. Beyond that, people are allowed to speak their minds. If you call the way people that don’t think the way you do offensive, THAT’S YOUR PROBLEM!!

Why don’t you set the policy that profanity isn’t allowed on your website and let everyone take a stand on this issue? Even if it isn’t a carbon copy of your opinions, smart people will appreciate your candor. Only narrow-minded people will write in and tell you how great you are for blocking opposing viewpoints! Are these the people you call your peers??

It’s amusing to see how threatened you loudmouths are by free speech! Vindicatemj personnel are letting themselves get all worked up because more people aren’t grateful for the way you bully people that aren’t members of your exclusive club? You’re appalled that places like Topix allow people to condemn your methods? Topix should crack down on these people and join you on the side you’ve drawn in the sand? Guess what? YOU’VE DONE THIS TO YOURSELVES!! YOU chose to block people that don’t share your point of view!! YOU were the first ones that wrote page after page about what scum people are that don’t think the way you do!! We aren’t permitted to join the discussion on your webpage, now you’re all bent out of shape that so many people speak out against you in other public forums??? You should wise up, pal!! If you’re such an authority on the truth, why don’t you allow opposing viewpoints on your website and let people make up their own minds? Quit trying to stack the deck and let the cards fall where they may!!!

“To all those who have helped to shelter and hide Topix, you are as guilty as Topix for the misery, the defamation, the violence, it has produced. You are also, forgetting the axiom of Buddha: “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

Virginia, now you can add to the list of how Topix abuse people the fact that they are writing in my full name (taken from Facebook) on the Michael Jackson forum:

Only God knows what they are capable of writing there in my name.

Guys, let me make a statement in this connection.

If you see “me” saying some terrible things on Topix please remember that I DON’T POST THERE at all. I tried once, but as you know they shadow banned me – so this was my first and last time there.

Therefore in whatever image you see “me” there – be it my full name, Mr. Putin’s, Mr. Obama’s, etc. – you should know that it is just another of Topix’s tricks. They evidently have no other arguments but this one.

Guess what? The MJ haters have now created a Twitter account to attack me (@sanemjfan) and other MJ advocates! Their twitter handle is @MJwasNoMesiah, and their name is “MJwasaPedophile”. They sent me 2 tweets in defense of Stacy Brown, after we had a heated exchange a few days ago.

Stacy Brown (@StacyBrownMedia) and the MJ hater had a few tweets about how they felt about MJ, and Brown is still hiding behind the “I wasn’t there” excuse so that he can still pretend MJ was guilty. It’s disgusting!

“I sure have had to be brave, I never thought I had it in me, but circumstances made me rise to the occasion.”

Virginia, none of us knew we had it in us! As Michael Jackson said: “If not us who else?”

“too many people have been harmed. Every single Topix forum I visit, is full of slander. I see so many innocent people being smeared. The savage cruelty so many Americans are facing on Topix, has numbers that are huge. Its easy to forget about these people, but imagine, all their pain. I will never forget, a very distraught father running around Topix, posting his email address, begging for help. A local troll was posting that he was raping his own son and he could not get the posts removed. He even posted on the Topix Palo Alto forum, and was laughed at for it. It was horrible, and this is just one victim.”

From the language these bullies use I get the impression that many of them are sick people. They seem to be focused on sexual fantasies about others – and this way they are exhibiting their own nature. The anonymity allowed on Topix forums is an attraction for all sorts of freaks who simply project their identity onto others and are actually speaking about themselves. They are playing games with other people’s lives deriving enormous pleasure from their sick tales and the unnatural power they have over innocent people.

The case of that poor father is horrible. I’ve just had an idea – and what if those who are so terribly slandered on Topix demand that their accusers go to the police and make an official statement over the “case”, and simultaneously reveal their identity there? After all, “raping a son” is a crime – so why write about it in a forum while they could and should go to the police instead? A firm demand like that will show to readers that the whole thing is a set up. However there is no guarantee that such a demand will be published there as they can easily shadow ban it they way they did it with my letter. Another awful thing about Topix is that they are playing a game according to their rules only.

“What Topix hates more than anything, is exposure. Spread the word, that is the best thing to do. Eventually our voices will be heard and once they are, the whole Nation is going to be in shock, at what was hidden for so long. How so many American lives could be endangered.”

I agree. To give more exposure to this outrage let me repeat some information about Topix from a site investigating it. It explains why the Topix forums are “different”:

Topix does not require anyone to register or to give an email address. You can simply type whatever you want into a topix forum and press POST COMMENT and your comment appear. Topix automatically filters out profanity, so without any human oversight they can automatically remove four letter words and other euphemisms for private body parts. But beyond this, they do not filter what is said unless it happens to be something that is negative towards TOPIX (though they do seem to allow a certain amount of anti-Topix debate).

Now lets remember that TOPIX creates a page for every town in America. This means that you can go to the Naperville website, write something completely untrue about a local resident and, poof, it will appear on the TOPIX website. And while TOPIX clearly delineates between news and forums, GOOGLE does not appear to do so. This means that a legitimate story about someone being arrested in Naperville that TOPIX pulled in from the Chicago Tribune website will have almost the same google relevance as a made up story about an arrest of a Naperville resident that someone just anonymously made up.

And the amazing thing: Topix may not take it down.

That’s right. You can simply invent false information about something or someone, post it to the TOPIX.COM website and you will create a local story about someone that google will find and that does not hold you in any way responsible for what you have just done. Topix will not censor it nor ask you to put your name (or even your email address) on your post. They will also not archive it so that it expires at a later point. They will leave it on their website indefinitely for GOOGLE to find unless they decide, as they seem to have in recent months, to moderate it. Feedback from victims however, seems to indicate that most requests to delete abusive posts are NOT HONORED (and if this has changed we want to know!).

Topix forums are full of racism, hate, sex, defamation, antisemitism and violence. There are posts which assault the body images of teenage children to their schoolmates, posts which destroy the reputations of private citizens and posts which cause people to lose their jobs. We have seen Topix posts soliciting encounters with minors and other posts which discuss the best illegal drugs to use. Not only this, but people who come to read the garbage which is posted anonymously on TOPIX forums are also fed advertisements from TOPIX sponsors. So, while someone’s reputation or school life is being destroyed by someone who in an angry moment made something up and posted it on TOPIX, some car dealer is paying TOPIX to show you that page.

hello vindicatemj. I’m sorry for the confusion. I clicked on your profile and a screen came up that said: “does not exist” although clearly, it was wrong. thank goodness.

Nice to meet you also. I sure have had to be brave, I never thought I had it in me, but circumstances made me rise to the occasion. You are very brave also.

Georgina, too many people have been harmed. Every single Topix forum I visit, is full of slander. I see so many innocent people being smeared. The savage cruelty so many Americans are facing on Topix, has numbers that are huge. Its easy to forget about these people, but imagine, all their pain. I will never forget, a very distraught father running around Topix, posting his email address, begging for help. A local troll was posting that he was raping his own son and he could not get the posts removed. He even posted on the Topix Palo Alto forum, and was laughed at for it. It was horrible, and this is just one victim.

What Topix hates more than anything, is exposure. Spread the word, that is the best thing to do. Eventually our voices will be heard and once they are, the whole Nation is going to be in shock, at what was hidden for so long. How so many American lives could be endangered.

“It takes 5,000 signatures for a matter to be brought before the White House, this petition has reached just over 2,500. Virginia is right, too many people have been hurt by this site and the actions of those who post there. It’s time to make that change because if we do nothing we are part of the problem:

Georgina, I am repeating the text of the petition here, as this matter is indeed important.

Why This Is Important

There is a dangerous, at times criminal, cyberbullying/hate-filled site on the internet called Topix.com that has been allowed to fly under the radar for far too long. Topix, which falsely claims to be a news aggregator (when in fact many of their forums contain virtually no news whatsover), is out of control throughout the United States and other countries. Topix is making a profit off of the very serious issues of bullying, harassment, drug sales, racism, and sexual predators witn no accountability. Their lack of conscience should be taken seriously considering the growing number of people committing suicide over this vicious form of bullying.

The way Topix functions is each town and city are given their own Topix site. For example, you can google Van Buren, Missouri topix and then click on the section which says forums. Topix allows hidden posters, without required registration, to post anything they want. This means that in many areas, especially small towns, users slander, libel and defame other people without human moderation. The company claims they will remove abusive posts within 72 hours that are reported, but that rarely, if ever occurs. It should not be the responsibility of users to police the site when Topix are the ones making a profit. Topix has no desire to remove particularly popular posts, because they fear it will cost them website hits even if it destroys others. This company has no concept of freedom of speech. Libel, defamation and forums that promote incest and drug sales are not protected by the first amendment. Many innocent people have been called anything from drug users to pedofiles, or are accused of other things. This can destroy a reputation and much of the hatred is targeted toward children with no conscience or morality displayed by Topix management. We encourage you to do a search and find your own town or city’s site and you will be horrified by much of what you see. There are also other Topix forums not dedicated to communities such as the human sexuality and AFAM forums that promote racism, incest, and even rape! This is not what the framers of our Constitution meant by first amendment. The first right of all people is life, liberty, AND the pursuit of happiness. When one is attacked on Topix that right has been taken away.

Over 30 attorney generals last year sent a letter to the CEO of Topix, Mr.Chris Tolles, and he continues to make excuses. The company has even claimed that freedom of speech is more important than one’s feelings. That is morally deplorable. In lieu of numerous complaints, Topix even changed their Terms of Service to become even more vague, making their site worse than ever. People are being forced to move to different towns and there have been incidents of violence because of the Topix website. Please sign the petition and ask for the forums section to either be completely removed if the forums are not going to be better moderated with accountability for those who slander and libel other people’s names. Remember it takes a lifetime to build your reputation but only seconds for someone or a cowardly company to destroy it.

“I just came across this. It looks like vindicatemj was taken off of WordPress, his profile is gone. The connections Topix has, are truly scary.”

Virginia, first of all, hello and happy to see you here. I have only just now realized that you are the Virginia Hoge I was quoting! You are a very brave woman! Excuse me, but what do you mean by ‘vindicatemj was taken off of WordPress”?

P.S. If the profile was to be filled in by me, I could have just overlooked it when the blog was starting. Could you give us a link to a place where “we are gone” for me to try and correct the problem? Though I understand perfectly well that it could have been the doing of Topix people too.

It takes 5,000 signatures for a matter to be brought before the White House, this petition has reached just over 2,500. Virginia is right, too many people have been hurt by this site and the actions of those who post there. It’s time to make that change because if we do nothing we are part of the problem:

I just came across this. It looks like vindicatemj was taken off of WordPress, his profile is gone. The connections Topix has, are truly scary. They have been able to all this time, hide what they are doing, open criminality and abuse have been hidden from America’s eyes, the tragedies and tears of its so many victims, hidden.

To all those who have helped to shelter and hide Topix, you are as guilty as Topix for the misery, the defamation, the violence, it has produced. You are also, forgetting the axiom of Buddha:

“Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

kaarin22, What you said is true, sadly: “This is like a cancer that will grow on the social body.”

The cancer is indifference to other human beings. The cancer is raising profit so high, and humanity, so low. The cancer is the victory of hatred, over love. But this can only be a temporary victory, as Michael Jackson said:

“Let us dream of tomorrow where we can truly love from the soul, and know love as the ultimate truth at the heart of all creation.”

Michael, wherever you are, lend your spirit to this cause, help to right this grave wrong.

I like the way this article is summing up “freedom of speech” on Topix:

(Submitted by Joey C)
Apparently some of you are not aware of the fact that freedom of speech is not protected here because this forum is the private property of Topix. They can exercise the same rights in censoring you here that you can exercise in your own living room. While the public is entitled to its uses, it’s still private property.

Everyone has house rules and they have every right enforce those rules, I can’t come to your house and just say anything I please because it’s your house, you would have every right to ask me to leave if I did. The same applies here, this is Topix’s house and the forums mods and admins are required to uphold Topix’s rules.(However they might not always do so)

Although the constitution of the US guarantees that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, this website is not Congress. Freedom of speech rights do not extend to this privately owned website. The ToS/RoC of this website governs the behaviors and activities of the members. If you choose not to follow the guidelines agreed to during posting, the result can be action to your posting account up to and including a permanent ban on your posting privileges altogether (account or not). If you feel you cannot abide by those documents, this may not be the place for you.

“This Chris Tolles seems like the very danger to free speach and somebody who wants to make money on peoples difficulties,causing divorces and forcing people to move from their homes etc.”

Kaarin, I think the Topix present “model” of news is bringing out the worst in people and is taking advantage of their most basic instincts. By allowing anonymous commenters to libel others it is not only ruining other people’s lives but contributes to degradation of everyone else. And this is probably the second worst thing that can be done to people after murder.

And all this is being justified by making the news “profitable”! What’s the good of profit at such a great expense?

There is one good thing about the Topix forums though – they are such an extreme and vivid case of a downward spiral, that it becomes apparent that journalism without ethics is fatal for both readers and journalism itself.

Now probably everyone will see what irresponsible tabloid-style media gossip can bring about. Previously only Michael Jackson suffered from it and it was much fun for the rest of the public, but now many people have felt on their own skin what it’s like.

Read through this s…t once again.ToxicTopics has found the most profitable way of milking money from the most of victims.They intend to monetize all communities by their free for all character assassinations. And have the victims pay to have smut and slander removed from their person.Their methods beat the ones used by the mafia many times over.-I hope this will be noted on the highest levels and removed from existence asap. Or soon we will all be monetized.
And it will be the victims who kill themselves, as the example of the divorced mother who killed her 3 children and herself.
This is like a cancer that will grow on the social body.

This Chris Tolles seems like the very danger to free speach and somebody who wants to make money on peoples difficulties,causing divorces and forcing people to move from their homes etc.He is filling the vacum left by murdoch and suggesting something much more malignant.
He is out for money, power and domination.VMJ is about the most clean and constructive blogs there is. -I don´t have any of my card or bank nr´s on the net, because here every now and then crminals who specialize in stealing directly from peoples accounts hit now and then. Just now one is under investigation.Maybe there will be more blackouts in protest necessary.

Again, that site sounds like hell on earth. I wonder if the hate, lies and slander that is spewed about somehow lifts spirits and causes a bit of chest thumping. Certainly, there is no sense of decency or a little item called class. And no matter how intelligent they may attempt to appear, my impression is that most are stuck in pre-middle school, narcissistic blabbering. Pfft.

It would be most unfair to block access to written material as such is not even available at news stands in many parts of the world.
Personally I don´t think the net as a whole can be monitored, but why can not sites that are well known to committing to destroy peoples lives and spwew out lies be reported to some agency.Here unfortunately students at (high schools mostly) do nasty,destructive things to each other.Local police is supposed to keep an eye on that. Some years ago there was a schoolshooting and a police had not taken appropriate action. He was sentenced , I don´t know if threats in themselves are illegal in US ,but those who threatens with someting serious should be given warnings.

Rockforeveron, thank you and Lynette for the clarification. What a coincidence that it should come up on my screen just when I was making my post. Now it has been amended.

If the Bill everyone is protesting against blocks access to newspaper articles which are free now and will require payment for each piece it will be a total disaster. Information will then be available only to those who can afford it. And God only knows what else can come of it. I hope the Bill is never passed.

I congratulate you on finding all this information..
I was thinking about something I had read about Topix.About how the AG wanted to go through their books or whatever because someone brought a lawsuit and they were claiming they had less than 18 employees so it would be a hardship for them and they were exempt.

And someone saying they are posting from Conn..
I just wonder if they get around that by hiring independent contractors , like people who work for themselves out of their homes to post all that crap…they wouldnt be on their books as employees
They certainly have coevered their bases at any rate..
It makes me think of a MONSTER TMZ.
The biggest celebrity in the world gets gigantic hits.
I have to admit I never really even got on the internet until MJ died and I made my husband go get my own laptop so I could complain about the media saying these incredibly callous things about him and his kids,..
but sometimes like, with , Tmz it is like feeding the monster..
Talk about trolls hiding under a bridge…
I dont know much about computers , but I hope there is some way to store all this information you have gathered here .
You never know what people are capable of doing..

Yes it was global but I’m not real clear on what SOPA/PIPA is all about. I know that one of our readers sent us an email but I still don’t quite understand the piracy connection and whether or not it would effect some of our posts? I was hoping someone could explain it a little better.

Lynette, did it work the same way for you? In my case it was shown for a few moments only while I was typing the password. I immediately reentered the blog after that but never saw those signs again.

If it was a general blackout than I will probably rewrite the post. However if that “warning” were for real, it wouldn’t change anything for me.

“I think if Michael’s fans just stay away from there and not make any comments they will start to act like the survivors of the plane crash in the Andes and start eating each other just to survive. We should just turn our back on walk away because when they do it won’t be pretty.”

Helena the blackout is pretty much webwide. Yesterday Wikipedia went dark in protest of a Bill that certain people want to pass in Congress. It is called the SOPA/PIPA Bill that restricts use of written copywrited material now available for free on the internet like many of the articles that we link to. I personally have purchased mine from High Beam research so I do have the rights to my articles and Documents. The ones from Santa Barbara County for the 2005 trial are still available for free.I don’t know how it will effect articles that are linked through web archives like The Wayback Machine which is where I have gotten many of mine as well. I for one say we should support the protest against the restrictions that the Bill intends to impose on users of the internet for information because I think we use it more than anyone else.
It is fascinating to see just how much damage a site like Topix can cause. I wonder how far the injury has to go to someone before they get that the things they say about people are not clever, funny or cute. I say leave them to talk amongst themselves and see which one will survive, because pretty soon they will turn on each other, that’s a given. I think if Michael’s fans just stay away from there and not make any comments they will start to act like the survivors of the plane crash in the Andes and start eating each other just to survive. We should just turn our back and walk away because when they do it won’t be pretty.