I don't know how a single block per 48 mins, exactly the same amt of def. rebounds, and slightly fewer steals = considerably better

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Rebounds are somewhat relative. Their defensive rebounding rate is the same, but Monroe gets one more offensive rebound per game. That's probably due (without watching the Hawks games) to Smith's tendency to be on the wing more. As far as blocks, even the best shot-block artists only average 3 per game. It's not about the actual shots blocked, it's about the impact they have on other teams' willingness to drive into the lane. Monroe has zero negative impact in that area, while Smith does.

And I said he was a better defensive player. There is no stat for staying in front of your guy, for keeping your guy from getting the ball, for switching properly, and for acting as a deterrent for opposing players. Smith does that; Monroe does not.

If you're not providing any better production, then your athleticism means absolutely nothing. So, you LOOK good putting up the exact same numbers?

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It means your team can either slow it down or speed it up. Smith thrives in the open court; Monroe does not. Again, it's about options.

+/- is useless in my opinion. Even the worst teams in the L have players with postitive +/-...where is that getting them? It's a team game and that stat tries, in vain, to assign individual value to the overall success of the entire team. It's the same reason you can take a guy who scores a bunch on a bad team, put him on a different team, and not have that team instantly become a contender.

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+/- is useless on a per-game basis, but it's very useful over an entire season, because it's the only one that shows the true impact a player is making when all those intangibles (such as staying in front of your man, etc.) are factored in. When a player consistently has a negative impact on his team (as Monroe does), then, over time, their +/- shows it. If it's simply a matter of a player playing on a bad team, then a good player should still have the highest +/- on the team. Smith, for example, had a +1.1 last year, which was third highest on the team. The fact is, though, that Stuckey and Monroe had the lowest +/- on the team last year. If there was a worse player on the team, then it stands to reason that the team would perform worse without that player. That's not the case, though, because Stuckey and Monroe tried performing above their abilities and hurt the team as a result.

But even if you want to make that assertion (Smith as the 'more efficient' player), and not saying that you HAVE, NBA.com would disagree with you simply by listing the following :

Greg Monroe: EFF Rating = + 19.95 Josh Smith: EFF Rating = + 16.33

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Oh, Monroe's a more productive player by EFF rating, no doubt. He rebounds the ball better, gets more assists and steals, and is a slightly better shooter. But EFF has no way to measure those defensive intangibles I mentioned.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the "no contest" you're referring to, unless you're referring to Greg Monroe being the better option and 6 years younger.

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They're admittedly closer than I originally thought, but Smith is still a better player. Now, if Greg gets stronger and develops as a Chris Webber-type high post player - which still may happen because he's young - then it's a different story. But as of right now, Monroe being marginally better on offense does not outweigh Smith being significantly better on defense.

*disclaimer - I'd rather save the F/A dollars than throw away a sizable chunk of cap space on Josh Smith.*

When were paying Smoove 14 mil per year for the next 4 years to put up a 7pt (3-16) stinker every 4th or 5th game while moaning to coach Mo that he isn't being used right, please remember that I was the guy who saw the forest through the trees.

Josh Smith is an amazing NBA player. ...as long as he is the 3rd best guy on your team.

So, with Golden State now trying to clear cap space to sign Dwight, and with Calderon a proposed option for them, what are the odds that they look Detroit's way? I mean, can you find a better way of upgrading Greg Monroe than by trading him for David Lee?

So let's say the Pistons Dump the Bucket, shedding another $8.5 million, leaving them at $26 million in cap allotment, with ~$32 million free. If I'm Dumars, I make this offer:

Biedrins ($9 million) + Bogut ($14 million) + Lee ($14 million) + a 2014 1st for Monroe ($4 million) and Kravtsov ($1.5 million). With David Lee, this basically gives the Pistons a better version of Monroe, one that can work with Drummond: he's a guy that has a midrange shot and is a better rebounder and free throw shooter. The Pistons can absorb the cap space and in Biedrins and Bogut get $23 million in expiring contracts for next year. Between Lee, Biedrins, and Bogut, the Pistons get way bigger. A couple more cheap bodies (maybe a MLE) and the Pistons round out their roster.

Oh wow if you go through with that trade you might as well give the championship to the Warriors. Even Miami would have trouble going up against that Warriors lineup.

In any case, I would rather explore trade options for Harrison Barnes than David Lee. Lee is a great player but he's already 30 years old and often injured, terrible trade for the Pistons! Barnes on the other hand would be the perfect match for our team... Great outside shot, solid defender and has athleticism to boot!

*disclaimer - I'd rather save the F/A dollars than throw away a sizable chunk of cap space on Josh Smith.*

When were paying Smoove 14 mil per year for the next 4 years to put up a 7pt (3-16) stinker every 4th or 5th game while moaning to coach Mo that he isn't being used right, please remember that I was the guy who saw the forest through the trees.

Josh Smith is an amazing NBA player. ...as long as he is the 3rd best guy on your team.

Oh wow if you go through with that trade you might as well give the championship to the Warriors. Even Miami would have trouble going up against that Warriors lineup.

In any case, I would rather explore trade options for Harrison Barnes than David Lee. Lee is a great player but he's already 30 years old and often injured, terrible trade for the Pistons! Barnes on the other hand would be the perfect match for our team... Great outside shot, solid defender and has athleticism to boot!

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The whole reason Howard is interested in going to the Warriors is the trio of young guys like Barnes and Thompson.

And good on them if they win it. If they beat the Heat, then I feel like James would be less likely to stay in Miami next year. I'm not saying that the Pistons get him, but the fight for Lebron becomes a huge distraction for the rest of the league while teams like Cleveland and Miami and LA all battle for his services. Then with $20 million in cap space, a recouped draft pick, and one of the greatest free agent classes of all time, the Pistons are set to make some noise and finalize their rebuilding process without having to overpay to extend Monroe.

Smith allows an 8.9 PER against small forwards, 17,3 against PF's and 14.9 against centres. Last year was arguably a bad year for this guy. The year before? 1.8/15.7/12.4 respectively

Monroe allowed 16 against PF and 19.6 against centres. Year before? Only played centre and got torched for a 19.3 PER.

Box score stats are never a good indicator of defensive performance. You can be Allen Iverson and get 10 steals in a game and still have a poor defensive showing. And just incase, there is nobody in the league who thinks Greg Monroe is a better or even comparable defender to Josh Smith. Because it is totally false.

Monroe is a fantastic player. But I think we are overvaluing him a little bit here. On a rookie contract, you may not consider a straight swap for JSmoove. But just standing next to each other? Smith is a far more dynamic, 2 way player that attracts a lot of attention. And he is fun to watch.

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I HATE "PER" stats because they never actually show how a guy plays night in and night out, it tries to average all of his performances into 48 min. blocks and guys NEVER play 48 mins night in and night out. That game day to game day production level, THAT's what you want to know when evaluating a player. Averaging a total number of points scored in/against a certain position is pointless if you have a structured team defense (as do ALL NBA teams) and you're constantly switching on P&R, cutters, help D, etc. There's no REAL way to prove one player sucks against ALL centers or ALL PF's (unless you're trying to pit 6' PGs against centers every night or you pull him out of your team D and make him guard ONE position ALL night with no help). Even WITH the stats you posted, there's literally a difference of 2 shots. TWO. Nevermind his stats from two yeas ago...NO ONE gets a contract based on their stats from TWO YEARS ago....NO ONE. Couple that with the fact that if you were to put Smith in the western conference where he, currently, only plays 1/3 of his games against, that defensive allowance would be MUCH higher. The West has a much higher number of explosive players at the SF position so, I think that number is slanted a bit.

I don't even care to make the point that Monroe is a way better defender, but this fallacy that somehow Smith is light years ahead of him and this massive upgrade defensively, just because people think it, doesn't bear itself out even in the stats you just referenced and it certainly doesn't bear itself out looking at their side by side stat comparisons.

Lastly, I fail to see how you can over value a player who is top 5 in scoring and rebounding for big men in THE ENTIRE NBA.

NBA Centers - PPG​

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NBA Centers RPG​

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Dwight Howard is the only player that ranks above him in BOTH categories. Unless the heavens open and Dwight decides to shock the world and show up in DET, I'm pretty confident that Monroe is good enough. Seriously, with this kind of production, and people still talking about getting rid of him, NO ONE is good enough to play on this team.

I mean, unless we're only allowed to compare centers to Wilt, Kareem, Russell, & Shaq...then, OK... I guess he's pretty unimpressive. Every player in the league gets ranked and compared to the other players in the league...but, somehow, people have developed a standard that apparently only allows a player to be appreciated if he's the greatest of all time. Besides, why would you want a guy with exactly the same numbers and SIX extra years of wear and tear on his body? Just because he's "fun to watch?" Really? The Phoenix Suns were fun to watch...no titles. TMC was fun to watch...no titles. I want effective, durable, and efficient and we have that with a player much younger than Smith. I just don't get it.

Oh wow if you go through with that trade you might as well give the championship to the Warriors. Even Miami would have trouble going up against that Warriors lineup.

In any case, I would rather explore trade options for Harrison Barnes than David Lee. Lee is a great player but he's already 30 years old and often injured, terrible trade for the Pistons! Barnes on the other hand would be the perfect match for our team... Great outside shot, solid defender and has athleticism to boot!

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I disagree. The Warriors had their success in the playoffs without David Lee, which forced them to play small and open up the floor with shooters. Orlando's most successful season with Dwight, making it to the finals in 2009, was with him and 4 shooters on the floor. Monroe isn't a stretch 4 by any standards, and is pretty slow footed to play on the same defensive frontcourt as Dwight. And Monroe for David Lee is a terrible, terrible trade for Detroit.

On the plus side for the Pistons, I haven't heard any rumored bad signings yet. That's a positive, even if it's mostly due to Dwight stalling the market.