This is the 1st time I've visited OKC Thunder Talk, but I was curious if they have a chance at any of the power forwards or centers that will be free agents this year. I saw one mock draft that have them taking Daniel Orton who would help defensively but brings nothing to the table offensively at center. Thoughts?

Collier11

5/12/2010, 04:01 PM

Orton would bring zero to the table for several yrs, just like Mullins is now. The emergence of Ibaka is huge, rumors have us taking a shot at Bosh.

JLEW1818

5/12/2010, 06:55 PM

Boozer

OU Adonis

5/13/2010, 08:32 AM

I think we are in more need of a center than PF. I think Serge will continue to develope as a PF

the_ouskull

5/13/2010, 03:14 PM

We need a consistent post scorer/defender/rebounder. We need "a big man," and if he plays the 3, 4, or 5 doesn't matter. They'll make it work as long as he can play. Bosh would likely play the 4 for us since he has a better jumper than Ibaka. On defense, they're interchangeable.

the_ouskull

zeptrey

5/13/2010, 03:20 PM

I vote for a 2 that can pull it consistently from outside. I like our bigs. If we can shoot consistently from outside, that helps them out quite a bit.

the_ouskull

5/13/2010, 07:09 PM

Give Harden more time, and he'll be that guy. He was just a rookie last year. He's just not good enough, defensively, to merit giving him more of Thabo's minutes, and he'll continue to learn his way around the court offensively as well.

Our bigs, on the other hand, were, well...

And, while I could throw a ton of regular stats at you to back up what I'm saying (Ibaka and Durant were the only players to average over one block per game at 1.3, and 1.0, respectively - or our starting four and five, Green and Krstic, only averaged a combined 1.5 blocks and 11 boards per game) I'm going to go with something a little different, 'cause that's me...

According to OUR offensive production, our weakest two positions were the two we're discussing: SG, and C, checking in with a PER of 13.2, and 15.0. So our 2's were worse than the league average, and our bigs were right at it.

BUT...

According to our opponents production, once again, by position... we... ya know, what...? What it boils down to is, the Net Production, by position, of our team last year says that we need a big (-2.3) worse than we need a guard (-0.9) which makes even more sense when you consider that we just drafted a guard last season.

My info: http://www.82games.com/0910/0910OKC5.HTM

I mean, man, according to the numbers, our best lineup last season was Maynor, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, and Collison. Sadly, that leaves Westbrook off of the court, as well as Jeff Green. Now what? If anything, we have too many guards, but at least our depth there is good. OKC's bigs are f-u-c-t if one of them goes down. Instead of being Krstic and Green, with Collison and Ibaka coming off of the bench, it becomes Green and Collison, with Ibaka and D.J. White. There's a drop-off. If we lose Thabo, or Maynor, or Harden, for any length of time, we have depth to cover it.

...at least as the team stands today, anyway.

the_ouskull

Collier11

5/13/2010, 07:11 PM

Kristic is the most likely to not be around next yr IMO unless we pull off a big trade, then its Jeff Green

yankee

5/13/2010, 11:40 PM

i'd like to see serge start at the 4 next year, and have green come off the bench in a 6th man type of role for that shot of offense...but then, i'm not sure where harden would fit into that equation. maybe bring both him and green off the bench at the same time?

the_ouskull

5/14/2010, 12:30 AM

With our current roster, no changes...

Westbrook
Harden
Durant
Ibaka
Krstic

That would bring Green, Thabo, and Collison - three starters at various points in the past few years... off the bench for us, along with Eric Maynor, who still has a lot of upside, and D.J. White. That's a scrappy second unit, but they'd have a lot of trouble scoring...

BUT it's only the second string. No starters.

That's just me, though. Green would have to vastly improve his shot-selection in order to be the offensive focal point for the second unit as an undersized power forward or a three with a poor handle. But, with Maynor's development, I'm sure that the second unit could at the very least, hold leads.

the_ouskull

Collier11

5/14/2010, 12:34 AM

I think the Maynor pickup was genius, I loved the guy in college and he showed flashes of being really good at times. You have to think Harden will only get better and barring a trade, so will Green.

Dont laugh Skull but what do you think about bringing Redick in or is he gonna cost too much? Career 39% shooter from 3 in the NBA, shot over 40% this year. I just wonder if his ego still tells him he is a starter in the NBA?

the_ouskull

5/14/2010, 01:57 AM

Man, that's the thing about Reddick. He's never been "an ego guy" in the league. He's a poet. He's humble. He's paid, a lot longer than he probably originally thought he would be.

He wouldn't be able to see many minutes for us, shooter or not, 'cause we'd have to constantly hide him on defense, and he's not athletic enough to run with the team for long stretches and still maintain offensive consistency.

I mean, he's a 10-point per game guy in Orlando, but we don't have anybody like Howard that commands the post double-team. (Durant will, but he's not a good enough passer out of it yet...) He'll have less time to get those corner 3's out of his hands.

I'd just rather see us go after someone who is a bit more multi-faceted, and can still shoot...

But I don't want to see anything until they take care of their issue with their bigs. And, since Bosh is going to go to Houston... :D

the_ouskull

starclassic tama

5/14/2010, 11:18 AM

david lee would bring a lot of production no doubt, but i still don't know if his game is "big" enough to be the answer we need down low... plus he isn't a great defender, but i'm confident brooks could coach him up

zeptrey

5/14/2010, 11:31 AM

Serge starting over Green...at the 4...no. We have a smaller, faster line up then most. I like Serge at the 5 starting ahead of Kirstic. Again, like Skull said about Harden being a Rook same is to be said of Serge. We have absolutely no offensive depth at the 2. Kirstic is our only offensive threat from the 5, but lacks big rebound and block numbers. If Serge could develop the pick and pop and some "real" inside scoring, we would be well off in the front court. You can't forget the intagibles that Collison provides. I wouldn't turn down a good big, but the ones available don't fit the work ethic and attitude of the team we have now.

Collier11

5/14/2010, 12:02 PM

Itd be great if we could draft Udoh

Collier11

5/14/2010, 12:03 PM

david lee would bring a lot of production no doubt, but i still don't know if his game is "big" enough to be the answer we need down low... plus he isn't a great defender, but i'm confident brooks could coach him up

He is gonna cost a pretty penny and really doesnt address our needs, good player though

the_ouskull

5/14/2010, 11:46 PM

Well, the thing about David Lee. Yeah, he's only like, 6'9", but he plays a lot bigger than that...

..and don't give him TOO much crap for his defense. He's been on D'Antoni's defensive juggernaut for a few seasons now.

And, since I just realized a weakness of mine... (What? Doesn't everybody constantly search for theirs...?) I am going to provide statistics to back up my argument. Either that, or I am going to delete everything below and including this paragraph and just sign the post here. That's the weakness. Sometimes, I make arguments with nothing backing them up, 'cause, to me, it's obvious Lee's a really, really good player that would help us a great deal... (Except against the Lakers, 'cause their size is just too much, and Lee - no matter how big he plays - is only 6'9".

Anyway..

Among players who played the majority of their minutes at the center position, David Lee ranked 4th in the league in PER last season. (Duncan, Howard, and Oden were the three above him...) All "real" centers. (Yeah, I know Duncan's a power forward. He's a four so he can be an All-Star...) That's better than Bogut, Bynum, and (Mark) Gasol. It's better than a similar player, also from UF, in Al Horford. He ranked 14th overall, with no positional considerations taken into account.

Alright, screw it. I don't need stats for this... even though his rebound rate is 17.9%, and he's a 20/10 guy who shoots 80% from the line and 55% from the field (with a TS% closer to 60%...) while dishing out 3.5 assists per game and rarely getting into foul trouble.

I don't stats 'cause his biggest defensive weakness - weak side help as a shot-blocker, happens to be Serge's specialty. Also, since we play more team than individual defense, he won't find himself in a lot of weak side "I have to make this play defensively" situations. Sure, he's not big enough to bang with L.A., but I'd rather have him out there than Collison. (No offense to Collison, whose game I respect, even as I look to replace it...)

Oh, and, even in D'Antoni's offense, he only took 8 three's all season. That alone is reason enough to try to make him the consolation prize when they can't land Bosh from Houston.

:D

the_ouskull

starclassic tama

5/15/2010, 01:37 PM

but is he interested in coming to OKC?

the_ouskull

5/15/2010, 04:19 PM

David Lee? Man, I don't think he cares, much. I think he'd love the younger team here. I think he'd fit in well, both on and off of the court, with the team and with the community.

What's working against us? Well, he's got what he'd like to make an acting career on his hands. (Commercials, some TV stuff...) That won't get helped along a great deal in Oklahoma. (Lakers?) Also, he's a Missouri prep school kid. So, he may not like the "culture" of the state. Then again, he DID go to school in Florida, and they even out-redneck us, I think. If not, they're neck-in-neck in their attempt to out white-trash us.

the_ouskull

stoopified

5/15/2010, 06:14 PM

Well, the thing about David Lee. Yeah, he's only like, 6'9", but he plays a lot bigger than that...

..and don't give him TOO much crap for his defense. He's been on D'Antoni's defensive juggernaut for a few seasons now.

And, since I just realized a weakness of mine... (What? Doesn't everybody constantly search for theirs...?) I am going to provide statistics to back up my argument. Either that, or I am going to delete everything below and including this paragraph and just sign the post here. That's the weakness. Sometimes, I make arguments with nothing backing them up, 'cause, to me, it's obvious Lee's a really, really good player that would help us a great deal... (Except against the Lakers, 'cause their size is just too much, and Lee - no matter how big he plays - is only 6'9".

Anyway..

Among players who played the majority of their minutes at the center position, David Lee ranked 4th in the league in PER last season. (Duncan, Howard, and Oden were the three above him...) All "real" centers. (Yeah, I know Duncan's a power forward. He's a four so he can be an All-Star...) That's better than Bogut, Bynum, and (Mark) Gasol. It's better than a similar player, also from UF, in Al Horford. He ranked 14th overall, with no positional considerations taken into account.

Alright, screw it. I don't need stats for this... even though his rebound rate is 17.9%, and he's a 20/10 guy who shoots 80% from the line and 55% from the field (with a TS% closer to 60%...) while dishing out 3.5 assists per game and rarely getting into foul trouble.

I don't stats 'cause his biggest defensive weakness - weak side help as a shot-blocker, happens to be Serge's specialty. Also, since we play more team than individual defense, he won't find himself in a lot of weak side "I have to make this play defensively" situations. Sure, he's not big enough to bang with L.A., but I'd rather have him out there than Collison. (No offense to Collison, whose game I respect, even as I look to replace it...)

Oh, and, even in D'Antoni's offense, he only took 8 three's all season. That alone is reason enough to try to make him the consolation prize when they can't land Bosh from Houston.

:D

the_ouskullIF Lee IS a team first player,I am all for it.Given the desire for STAR treatment or should I say desire to be treated likeTHE STAR that Bosh allegedly has ,I would prefer Lee.I do think we need more scoring from the primeter as well,either a shooting guard or SF with 3PT range.Not looking fo a starter but a scoring threat off the bench.Sam and the guys have done a good job so far deciding what OKC needs and then getting that player so I rest easy in that regard.

diegosooner

5/20/2010, 12:14 AM

I wonder if Lee is waiting to see if Lebron comes to NY

JohnnyMack

5/20/2010, 12:11 PM

I think David Lee was playing his *** off in a contract year on an otherwise terrible team. Hard for me to see him putting up those kind of numbers on a more balanced, competitive team.

J.J. Redick is a turd.

Chris Bosh will be in Cleveland.

Carlos Boozer would be nice.

birddog

5/21/2010, 09:19 AM

NBA mock draft has us taking gordon hayward of butler and lawal from gt.

geez, seems like the nba draft is as immediately relevant as the mlb draft.

soonerfan28

6/8/2010, 09:12 AM

I say we trade both 1st round picks for Blake Griffin. Although the Clippers wouldn't go for it that would be a great deal IMO.

the_ouskull

6/8/2010, 11:03 AM

I think David Lee was playing his *** off in a contract year on an otherwise terrible team. Hard for me to see him putting up those kind of numbers on a more balanced, competitive team.

His 22.28 PER was higher than Kobe's. His 19.07 PER from last year would have put him around the same level as Rajon Rondo and Al Jefferson this season.

His scoring averages have increased now that he's 1) in D'Antoni's system, not Zeke's, 2) not backing up Eddy Curry, and 3) not having to play as much one-on-one post defense, and 4) playing an extra five minutes per game.

He works his tail off all of the time, but he's only 6'9". The reason for his improved stats this season isn't a contract year, as he put up similar numbers last season as well, other than what I've already said... the reason is, he's in his second season in a new system, and is starting to really figure it out. Look...

Assists: 3.6 to 2.1
Free Throws: .812 to .755

Then, other than minutes (discussed) and turnovers (an increase of .4 per game) his numbers are all basically the same across the board; at least as far as basic stats are concerned. Advanced stats are another matter: His rebound rate actually decreased slightly (by .5%) but he saw increases in Usage and Assist Rate, and a decrease in his Turnover Rate.

David Lee's contract year myth? Busted.

Carlos Boozer would be nice.

Eh. His low-post scoring would be nice, but I don't think 1) he'd fit in very well, and 2) he's still not a good low-post defender; not the caliber of one that we need to contend, anyway... I mean, if there's a Duke quota, maybe we can see what Mike Giminski is up to.

the_ouskull

pappy

6/9/2010, 04:51 PM

I'd love to get david lee! I think he'd be a great fit for our style of play. he's an energy guy with a lot of talent. can play the 4 or the 5.

Serge Ibaka

6/21/2010, 01:47 PM

Lee is great. He would immediately improve the teams inside rebounding and scoring, which has been problematic for the Thunder since they came to Oklahoma City. Still, he's never really proved himself to be much of a defensive presence (which, to be fair, is also a result of his system in New York). He just doesn't strike me much as a "Presti-guy."

But, then again, Presti won't be bringing in many big name free agents anyway. The Thunder already have a bunch of big names. They're all just 22 and younger.

I don't mind Presti's conservatism--if OKC begins spending too much, it will be problematic retaining all of the players that they will need to. And, anyway, this team is already built to win. They won 50 games with a bunch of kids + Krstic, Collison, and Sefolosha. Nobody would have predicted that! The pundits wrote us down for 35 (or less!) wins before the season began. And considering the leaps that Ibaka made during his first season and the leaps that Westbrook and Durant made during the earliest seasons in their career, I don't see a reason why all of these guys won't continue to improve, learning how to win together.

Ibaka needs to start at PF--he's too gifted to sit on the bench forever. Soon, he'll be famous league-wide because he's a highlight machine. He's already becoming infamous after game 2 in L.A. when he threw, like, a million Lakers' shots into the stands. Draft a center to the squad this year, resign Collison, continue to develop Byron Mullens (who is a really good athlete for a 7-footer and he is young and he has a nice mid-ranger--he has a shot to contribute good minutes): that's what the Thunder should do. With Ibaka starting and Green coming off the bench, the Thunder will have a really nice front-court-by-committee that will provide solid-enough play on both ends.