It's a competitive advantage, after all. Soon enough, I imagine all major ISP's here will do this as long as there isn't new legislation against it. These are also all very good signs of just how aggressive and poorly thought out the IPRED law in reality was.

You must be one of those hippies who keep on preaching about rights and liberty. Good job that soon we'll have a central database linked to your compulsory ID card and the GPS tracker in your car, at least then we'll be able to keep an eye on you and your subversive attitude.

Good job that soon we'll have a central database linked to your compulsory ID card and the GPS tracker in your car, at least then we'll be able to keep an eye on you and your subversive attitude.

While that is certainly good, it might also be a good idea to make these people wear some kind of visual sign, so that other people know to avoid them in the streets. Maybe some kind of geometric pattern, a star or triangle or something in pink or yellow, worn on the breast?

But why would you, if you haven't got anything to hide? The only people who would do this must be terrorists, or users of prostitutes! We should lock you up to protect the children. What a shame we didn't get the 42 day detention-without-charge law passed - still, we can hold you for 28, it's better than nothing.

Incidentally, we're about to build 5 new prisons. And to think some cynical people are pointing out that we're in a recession

Uhh, recessions cause increases in crime [itv.com]. Think about it for a moment - lots of people with no jobs and no money and nothing to lose and nothing better to do -- what do you expect to happen if not burglaries?

And you may notice that you missed my point. Not that I particularly agree with my point; the new prisons will not house nearly enough people to make any sizeable dent in the unemployment figures. For that, we have to employ them in local government.

And you may notice that you missed my point. Not that I particularly agree with my point; the new prisons will not house nearly enough people to make any sizeable dent in the unemployment figures. For that, we have to employ them in local government.

When the options are 1) depression leading to all sorts of negative things or 2) making light of the world--which do think is going to give you a happier life in the midst of corrupt runaway government?

You can, wait for it, forge fake logs, oh yea, like 123, and abuse anybody. Judges take these text logs as hard evidence, that is scary, really scary. CCTVs footage is one thing but, text logs trace, misuse and abuse another. They see it as the same kind of evidence.

Any so called "log evidence" is laughable and should be banned. Now every other PC have some mal-ware, trojan, virus, bot, you name it installed, that takes this log evidence to another crazy level. Just let you grand

Any day now, expect your humdrum day at work to be interrupted by a crew of stockbroker corsairs and account privateers assaulting your office tower from the broadside of the Crimson Permanent Assurance.

here [integrity.st] you can see a few other ISP's that erases logs.
This behaviour is not a circumvention of the IPPRED law but an enforcement of law of electronic communication that states that customerinformation that is not needed for daily operations must be erased as soon as possible.
This law in itself nullifies the IPRED law.

Oh they will "correct" this here as well soon enough. The data retention directive will be implemented this fall, and all the ISPs will be forced to keep logs for at least 6 months.

Swedes: vote for the Pirate Party in European Parliament election on the 7th of June, early voting begins on the 20th of MayOther EU citizens: vote for whatever party has the most integrity friendly platform.

We're facing a big problem in the EU. Corruption is rampant among our politicians and the eagerness of politicians to control our society's access to information and surveil our activities has never been higher.

So I my log servers rack fell over yesterday and the HDDs are fecked. So sue me.

Honestly there is almost no way anybody can guarantee any digital data is available tomorrow - one of a million things could happen. Especially if your backup policy is not as good as you hoped it was.

no, it is in their interest to drag the debacle through the courts for as long as possible, at least until SCOTUS tells the government "what the the were you thinking, haven't you read the constitution?".

The problem I think you'd have is, even IF your ISP guaranteed they weren't leaving any logs behind, most of the other "big name" web sites you use *do* log your activity.

For example, good old Google keeps records of every single search ever done and which IP address it originated from!

(I was watching a news story not that long ago about a murder suspect that was prosecuted largely because they were able to subpoena Google to turn over all of the search queries done by this individual. They found all sorts

If you happen to be the only person from your IP pool who was at such and such a place at such and such a time, and the searches line up with some particular detail, the search log would be plenty useful.

Sure, it could be pointed out that it doesn't mean all that much, but the people on a jury will like the story.

the problem is, logging out won't do anything. There's even a note on google that "stealthing" is worthless if IP addresses are tracked by the server with which you are connecting. And... google tracks these.

I put my faith in Tor for web-browsing and PeerGuardian 2 for P2P to handle the IP tracking. (I can't remember the last time I needed Tor, though. How many times do you need to download an improvised munitions manual or search for "murder wife untraceable poison"?) But I really do stay logged into Google (typically).

There was actually an interesting comment yesterday [slashdot.org] from somebody who was convinced that using PG2 was equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot, but I'm not sold. It's up no matter what I

Could ISPs get away with this in the United States without facing legal issues or retribution from the cops?

Two words- Time Warner. They wouldn't think twice about making their cable service a loss leader if this became an issue, nor would they hesitate to paint the boutique "we don't keep logs" ISPs as being complicit in everything from piracy to terrorism in the press...oh wait, they ARE the press. I guess that's covered.

Law enforcement almost seems like an afterthought when corporations like Time Warner have control over every aspect of the media.

FTS: "Perhaps this is the corporate equivalent of joining the Pirate Party."

Sorry, but no. The pirate party is politically motivated. The motivations of ISPs are purely economic. People don't like the government spying on everything they do, so they will choose services that say "fuck you" to the gov. This is simple business decision making, and should be seen as nothing more or less. Should the government make these actions punishable by fines that exceed new revenues (or if the *AA found a way to create economic incentives,) ISPs would switch back in a heart beat.

Well...it's economic, but I guess not in the way one might immediately think. The number of grandma's that change ISPs for said benefit may or may not be low. HOWEVER, much like US eDiscovery law strategies, sometimes it is far far far safer for a company to keep nothing (or very little) based upon a company policy, rather than get sued for an email from 9 years ago.

Actually, eight different ISPs have vowed not to keep these records, instead promising to respect the integrity of their users. They've set up a small organization for this purpose at integrity.st [integrity.st] [in swedish]. Tele2 is by far the largest ISP to join so far, though.

Once they receive notice that these logs might be needed in a court case they are probably required to hang on to them until the court officially decides. Otherwise they could be accused of destroying evidence.