SERIOUS Educational camp with lots of community interaction and some hijinx. Panhandling on the playa. Sleeping where rangers or LEO will run you out of. Plenty of cardboard signage to hold. No community food or drink service. Cardboard camp burned at the end of week. More details to be drafted if there is interest.

Drop a line here if interested.

Looking for a couple more folks to help start project and as many participants as we can handle.

Where would the Rangers run me out of for sleeping? The only places I can come up with off the top of my head are the JOTS and the middle of the street.... The middle of the street has its own, obvious problems, and the JOTS are kinda cramped for even attempting that. (I think, in theory, you can be run out of Center Camp, but I wound up falling asleep there a few times with no problems.)

Just curious,

B.

"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.Do things that have never been done."--Russell Kirsch

This may be the single best idea ever and is a great tie in with this years theme....I most likely will not be attending next year (not out of any personal protest or problem) but if by the graces of the almighty something changes that i would def be down to be a freelance bum (i got great credentials as ive actually lived on the streets) i could also give classes on the best ways to be quietly obtrusive. I hope you get to go through with this....good luck!!!!!

My American dream is to work and provide for myself. At one point in my life my dream was just to have a place to live. Sparing folks the gore that is my past I will just say that I left home at an early age, got emancipated, got around to a HS diploma, and got into the metalworking trades. All this was done while being homeless, NO ROOF WHATSOEVER!

Alot of the folks I met while on the streets just plain screwed up in some way. They didn't want to be on the streets any more than me. We shared tips about Dunkin Donuts throwing good donuts out and helped get the coffee grinds off em so we could eat. We also shared resources when it came to shelter and other minor needs and desires.

My dream for America now is that instead of trying to solve everyone elses problems we work on our own. Instead of outsourcing our jobs we provide to those in need here first and foremost. I see many machine shops close each year and fear another economic collapse/depression headed our way soon. You don't need to see an old Mike Moore movie to see how bad things are getting. Buying American doesn't work since big business doesn't even make anything here anymore.

People want homes.
People want to work.

Let see if we can have an impact in 08 and show folks the REAL American dream for many of our citizens.

(PS this also applies to other countries, so if you are not US but wish to represent your contry you are MORE than welcome in this project.)

Yeah, even in this somewhat rural county, there is a homeless problem. Unfortunately, all people seem to want to do is build more jail space (we now have more than we can use). I fear that we are going to have to experience another Great Depression before anything can be made to happen. (Of course, during the last Great Depression, FDR was under a good deal of pressure to become Dictator. Fortunately, he was strong enough to resist. I'm not so certain about the current crop of politicians.)

B.

"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.Do things that have never been done."--Russell Kirsch

For years I've wanted to write a book or do a documentary about homeless survival techniques to display the honest grit it takes to survive in a society that values wealth above all other things. I could see some sort of art project reflecting this on the cardboard. Something like, "What we do to survive," with actual quotes from homeless people. The fact that this would be burned at in the end could even tie into the whole American Dream motif...the idea to make those skills either less necessary, or more prevalent depending on perspective.

will there be classes for non-homeless people on how to not feel horribly conflicted everytime a bum comes up to our windows while we're trying to go to work?

i try to empathize, but here in baltimore it's perfectly legal for bums to not only stand on the median at the intersection, but also to walk out in the middle of traffic, panhandling. i would love to help them all, but i'm really tired of scary looking bums practically harassing me for money (and yes, when they come right up to my window and yell at me, i consider that harassing. they don't always do that, but i seriously contemplate hitting them with my car when they do. it makes me angry that i work my tail off for what i have, and they make more than minimum wage sitting on the corner)

sorry, you just hit a sore spot with me.

A second generation hippie in corporate whore costume trapped in a white-collar world.

[quote="theCryptofishist"][quote="dedqgirl"]it makes me angry that i work my tail off for what i have, and they make more than minimum wage sitting on the corner)[/quote]
Cites? And even if some do, they don't all do. And minimum wage aint a living wage out here in San Francisco Bay Area, maybe it's not in Baltimore either.[/quote]

most bums do. and no, there isn't a widespread survey of bums' income. but i saw an interview with a bum on the evening news (not reliable i know, but my only source of news), and the bum himself said that in less than 2.5 hours he made about $18-20. that's about $7.20-$8 an hour. minimum wage is not a living wage, no, but it's certainly enough to eat on, especially when you don't have rent, utilities, car payments, insurance, gas, etc to pay for.

if someone can give me a really good reason that they can't get a job anywhere, i'd love to hear it. the fact is that if they need a mailing address, you can get a P.O. box for cheap, and you really really don't need a whole lot of skill to work at mcdonalds.

millions of people live on less than a living/minimum wage, but they still aren't homeless. why? because they don't waste their money.

i don't want you thinking i'm heartless or anything, though. i was talking to a coworker at lunch today about homeless people. i work for a very large bread company and apparently we used to donate our near-expired, still-good-but-not-sellable product to shelters and such, but they quit doing that. why? because the stupid heartless corporate bastards care more about their trademark and profit than they do about people who can't eat (which is not necessarily the same as homeless people). this makes me very angry, and one of my goals is to do something, anything, to change this. i do not, however, have any pull whatsoever at the moment, so there's nothing i can do. but this is part of the reason i get upset by homeless people on the street. i want to help them, yes, but there's nothing i can do to make their situation better, and perhaps that makes me more angry than anything.

A second generation hippie in corporate whore costume trapped in a white-collar world.

dedggirl - there is so much I find wrong with your post that I don't hardly know where to begin. But I do know how you feel and I have had some of those feelings in the past. So although I respect your opinion, I have to jump in here.

My law practice is in a downtown upscale urban area and easily about 30% to 40% of this practice is pro bono for homeless or very low income people who are in and out of shelters, and as a result of their homelesness, often in and out of jail.

Your statement that millions who make minimum wage are not homeless because they don't waste their money is the closest thing to the Marie Antoinette "let them eat cake" attitude that I have ever heard. You would be more honest by saying "Why don't they just stop being sick?" Please, please read some of the links that Toolmaker posted. They can educate you to the problem and some of the things that caring people are doing to help.

Yes, there are a LOT of good reasons why "they" cannot get a job. Too many. There are even a lot of reasons why "they" should not have jobs too.

I don't know if you are a spiritual person, but even if you are not, shame on you for turning your disdain on those less fortunate than you just because they have been brought to the point where they must beg your help the best way they can.

I have come to believe that being homeless and having to beg for whatever it is that you believe will keep you alive from day to day is the VERY HARDEST job there is.

I had a professor who studied the homeless as a project for the census bureau (he was trying to come up with a way to get them counted to change representation). One of the things that most significantly stuck with me in his discussion about the research was that there was a dramatic increase in the late 70s in the number of homeless on the streets. Why? Because they changed the laws for mental institutions housing people who were not a specific danger to themselves or others. The seriously mentally ill were released onto the streets, saving the government millions. Their families wouldn't take them, or likely have anything to do with them. You cannot hire a paranoid schizophrenic for any job. They scare you in your car... just think of what they'd do to the poor McDonalds patrons who would have to deal with them behind the register!

Out of curiosity, what does your company do with the not-good-enough-to-sell stuff since they're not giving it away?

It's hard to have a normal conversation with someone with 6' acrylic rods strapped to your back.

Maybe if we stopped giving those training subsidies to McDonalds and put the money to good use...

There are plenty of reasons for homelessness. Not only the changes in law for the mentally ill, but the lack of affordable housing, the systematic ripping up of the safety net, hey I bet some of those are victims of medical bankruptcies. And when you consider homeless on homeless crime, even if you're making more than minimum wage you're better off spending it that day, even if it's on drugs or booze, than having it stolen my a nasty street tough. I remember when you didn't see small children begging. It's been getting worse for a quarter century.

God, I'm getting old.

Thanks, mojo.

Oh, and the only reason my troubles didn't leave me on the street is the grace of my parents.

And don't forget all those people living paycheck to paycheck. Oh, it makes me sick.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Clar-i-ty wrote:For years I've wanted to write a book or do a documentary about homeless survival techniques to display the honest grit it takes to survive in a society that values wealth above all other things. I could see some sort of art project reflecting this on the cardboard. Something like, "What we do to survive," with actual quotes from homeless people. The fact that this would be burned at in the end could even tie into the whole American Dream motif...the idea to make those skills either less necessary, or more prevalent depending on perspective.

I found a link on Bobs site that took me to a cardboard dome site. These look like pretty tough structures if the 2ply is used. The cardboard could be coated to increase water resistance and they can be decorated and written on etc. These can also be burned if so desired.

dedqgirl wrote:will there be classes for non-homeless people on how to not feel horribly conflicted everytime a bum comes up to our windows while we're trying to go to work?

i try to empathize, but here in baltimore it's perfectly legal for bums to not only stand on the median at the intersection, but also to walk out in the middle of traffic, panhandling. i would love to help them all, but i'm really tired of scary looking bums practically harassing me for money (and yes, when they come right up to my window and yell at me, i consider that harassing. they don't always do that, but i seriously contemplate hitting them with my car when they do. it makes me angry that i work my tail off for what i have, and they make more than minimum wage sitting on the corner)

sorry, you just hit a sore spot with me.

Its a do-ocracy baby. Anyone will be welcomed to educate and enlighten folks on any specifics they want. As far as the law goes.. the constitution still protects freedom and homlessness should never be a crime. Problem is, some folks abuse their freedom. I lived in Baltimore for a few years and know of some of what you describe. North Ave type folks right? If so, alot of these folks aren't really homeless. There are alot of shakedown artists and criminals out there. I have had run ins with some in Baltimore, Philly, and here in S Florida. Anyone that harasses, threatens, etc in order to make you scared and give em money is a criminal. I had so many probs on North Ave with the rackets I changed my drive to work to add 20 mins just to avoid em. I had some person threaten to scratch my paint and bust my window if I didn't let him wash my windshield and pay him. This is not the type of person I am refering to when I say homeless person. Read up on some of the links I posted and you will hopefully be enlightened some. While I loved my time in Baltimore I cannot live in such an economically depressed town willingly. The crime factor is just a little too much for me. I don't think a cardboard dome will support a pinata but we may be able to accomodate you. Since you are bringing your own toys I would be glad to flog ya a little if you don't find anyone else.

mojo wrote:Toolmaker - I'm in! How about being sure the homeless get tickets and have to appear in court for camping in "no camping" zones, unlawful dumping (of human waste), urinating in public, etc......

This kinda thing would be GREAT! This is more in your realm of exp. than mine. I don't have the finances to swing anything like this but if you want to bring some folks and do something heavy like this I would be overjoyed if we could get some folks awakened and enlightened. Pissing on the playa may be in bad taste (or good taste depending on where and when the pissing is done), but I don't think it'll illegal on the playa. Poo is a no-no from what I understand, and I have no idea about the camping / no camping zone. Again.. this is your backyard and I would be happy to have as many folks as possible. Now that we have some interest maybe we can look for a village to host us. Hows everyone feel about beggin gigsville for a small square of space? Maybe Mike and Bob will let us be part of the Fucko family. We can panhandle DPW since they have all the good booze.

theCryptofishist wrote:Maybe if we stopped giving those training subsidies to McDonalds and put the money to good use...

There are plenty of reasons for homelessness. Not only the changes in law for the mentally ill, but the lack of affordable housing, the systematic ripping up of the safety net, hey I bet some of those are victims of medical bankruptcies. And when you consider homeless on homeless crime, even if you're making more than minimum wage you're better off spending it that day, even if it's on drugs or booze, than having it stolen my a nasty street tough. I remember when you didn't see small children begging. It's been getting worse for a quarter century.

God, I'm getting old.

Thanks, mojo.

Oh, and the only reason my troubles didn't leave me on the street is the grace of my parents.

And don't forget all those people living paycheck to paycheck. Oh, it makes me sick.

I was a kid in Philly when the mental facilities released folks that weren't 100 percent but not dangerous to others. Some of these folks never left the dropoff point at the Market/Frankford El train station. All through high school public trans travel I saw em. Made me sick when I found out why they were there. I lived paycheck to paycheck for YEARS, in some ways I still do. Most of America is only a few checks away from homelessness. Here in FL with the inflated real estate market and some folks making bad financial decisions bank repo stuff is on the rise.

Glad to see a bunch of folks with interest so early in the year. Check out the cardboard dome site.. they seem pretty easy. Yurts are another quick and dirty housing method. This WILL likely be a real tough burn to "do it right" and be minimalist. I plan on making up a cardboard dome after the holidays and will post up progress in the thread.

mojo wrote:Oh yes - you mentioned there being nothing you can do about it? BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

like what? seriously... what can i do, donate some money to a shelter? like that's going to change anything.... but if you have better ideas, i'd love to hear them.

Toolmaker wrote:I lived in Baltimore for a few years and know of some of what you describe. North Ave type folks right? If so, alot of these folks aren't really homeless. There are alot of shakedown artists and criminals out there.

Well, they're actually the MLK Blvd types and Russell/295 switch types, but I think they're all pretty much the same. There's one guy at the first light on MLK that is there every single day religiously and if I had a bag of food, he'd be the first guy i'd give some to, because he's obviously been doing it for awhile. But the rest of them wander. I even saw some middle-aged white guy in a polo and khakis and sunglasses with a cardboard sign saying "stranded"... his clothes were probably worth more than the first guys' entire collection of worldly possessions.

Valkyrie wrote:Out of curiosity, what does your company do with the not-good-enough-to-sell stuff since they're not giving it away?

We sell it to farmers for animal food or we dry it and sell it as premium breadcrumbs.... blech.

And mojo - please don't get me entirely wrong. much of my sentiment comes from total frustration. mostly the frustration at the fact that as hard as i work for my own livelihood and as much as i want to help the truly helpless, i feel completely helpless myself. it's affected by the fact that i work for a totally bottom-line-driven company that seems to be eating away at my soul. i'm not heartless. please believe me. i'm infinitely conflicted in the war on poverty, and that leads to anger all around. (don't even get me started on the rest of my life!). i hope you don't think any less of me for the way i feel, because i certainly respect you more for the work you do for these people. keep going, because you're actually making a difference, whereas me... i'm doing nothing but continuing to feed overfed rich people. don't ask why unless you want another anti-corporate rant.

A second generation hippie in corporate whore costume trapped in a white-collar world.

I fancy getting a gas gan, filling it with water, and a whisky bottle, filled with ice tea, and stagger around center camp dressed like Larry, and act like I am falling down drunk, which I very well may be.

dedqgirl wrote:mostly the frustration at the fact that as hard as i work for my own livelihood and as much as i want to help the truly helpless, i feel completely helpless myself.

One of the things I've learned with examining corporate culture from both the inside and within academia is that there's a deliberate push towards this sense of helplessness. The more helpless you are, the more you depend on corporations to help you.

You have to decide what's important to you and stick with it, but once you do wholeheartedly, you can make a difference. Unfortunately, because of the corporate pressure, society usually considers these sorts of folks as "a nut" or wasting their time/effort/energy. It's that weight of normalicy you have to resist most.

It's hard to have a normal conversation with someone with 6' acrylic rods strapped to your back.

mojo wrote:Oh yes - you mentioned there being nothing you can do about it? BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

like what? seriously... what can i do, donate some money to a shelter? like that's going to change anything.... but if you have better ideas, i'd love to hear them.

I don't know whats about where you live but here in S Florida we have www.homelessvoice.org this shelter does alot to get people working and back into their own places. Habitat for Humanity is a decent larger scale operation that is on the edge of this issue. You could donate a night a week working the soup kitchen somewhere. There are plenty of things out there to be done. When I lived up north I would hit the Goodwills and hand out the jackets and blankets I picked up cheap to folks that were cold.

There really is a lot that one person can do to fight homelessness. If you REALLY want to make a difference, volunteer to serve on the Board of some of the organizations that help the homeless. Show up at your city council meetings when issues that concern the homeless are being decided. Most of all, MOST IMPORTANT, even if you do nothing else, educate yourself about the problem. Toolmaker really did post some excellent information.

I used to worry that the dollar I would give to a beggar was just going to be used for alcohol or drugs. Then I realized that even if that is true, at least I have helped someone have the ability to exercize some form of free choice that day that they otherwise would not have had.

I really don't expect that dollar to change the life of the person I give it to - it's MY life that changes from the gift.

I recently joined a website called couchsurfing.com ... I'm guessing many of you have heard of it. I realized when I was in Barcelona being hosted with 4 other couchsurfers in a 3 bedroom flat that there are more than enough homes for everyone that is in need. It really boils down to a lack of cooperation. I've heard stories of people couchsurfing nonstop for 2-3 years, so as the project grows I'm sure it will also grow a smaller couchsurfing subculture of modern nomads who effectively surf their entire life. Now in Vienna, the 5th largest couchsurfing community, events are regularly attended by 100+ people... all somewhat like minded on the subject of travel and sharing space with people from far flung places. There is a headline on the CS site about surfing a mutant couch at burning man 07, so... I'm sure there are many burners besides myself in CS as well. Couchsurfing for homeless people could be an interesting city project... instead of just hosting random foreigners... you could host homeless people. The thing about CS is that it works basically on a system of trust, and I'm guessing it may be hard for a homeless person to get someone to vouch for them, but hell... if you had a central location to let the homeless decompress from the streets before sending them on to couches in the community... I think evaluating their adaptability to living in a home again would be fairly simple... After living in Las Vegas for the last 2 1/2 years where there are an estimated 11000 homeless, and watching the Mafioso Mayor outlaw giving food to the homeless in a certain park... yea... I've got a problem with homelessness... it shouldn't even exist.

DUDE!
I'd love to live in a box, Being a vagrant is the most uplifting thing you can do.
I've gone to large cities and hung out in squats, you get an awesome feeling when people actually help you, and you see how many people who are very well off dismiss you as nothing. Vagrants see everyone for who they really are. Whether they have good or bad hearts.

It's amazing how many people will look at you as trash just because you have a cardboard sign.

Mojo,i totally agree with everything you have just said here! i would also like to share something as well...my daughter and i volunteer with an organization called Nicholas House. It is a local group affiliated with the homeless shelters here in Charlotte. We provide lodging for 12 homeless men/women once a week to get them OUT of the shelter enviroment and into a more home like enviroment. We also put together a meal for them and serve them. But the most important thing we do is sit down and eat with them, engaging in conversation, treating them as worthy human beings. Will we eradicate homelessness with this tactic? Obviously not, but...we are opening and sharing of ourselves and hopefully imparting a little dignity and compassion. Just sitting there and listening to their stories...i really cannot put this into appropriate words for the emotions it evokes~It is one of the best volunteer oportunities my daughter and i participate in...it is humbling and rewarding~

Toolmaker,

i really like your camp idea and would love to participate. But i am hoping to be able to utilize my energy/bodywork skills with the HeeBees in 08. If you get this off the ground, i will be sure to visit it and meet you. i wish you the best with this!

pax et lumina, j

mojo wrote:There really is a lot that one person can do to fight homelessness. If you REALLY want to make a difference, volunteer to serve on the Board of some of the organizations that help the homeless. Show up at your city council meetings when issues that concern the homeless are being decided. Most of all, MOST IMPORTANT, even if you do nothing else, educate yourself about the problem. Toolmaker really did post some excellent information.

I used to worry that the dollar I would give to a beggar was just going to be used for alcohol or drugs. Then I realized that even if that is true, at least I have helped someone have the ability to exercize some form of free choice that day that they otherwise would not have had.

I really don't expect that dollar to change the life of the person I give it to - it's MY life that changes from the gift.

What spirit is so empty and blind, that it cannot recognize the fact that the foot is more noble than the shoe, and skin more beautiful than the garment with which it is clothed?
Michelangelo

Would there be...
Car's, Truck's...
Park tables...
Park benches...
and Park public restrooms...
...for people to sleep in? Because I know that I'd never sleep in the summer of 03, and a few other times with out them. Personally I didn't consider myself homeless, just a squatter. But to me it resonates a more realistic point then cardboard.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if anyone is going to have a shelter theme camp this upcoming year? I don't know about the rest of you, but I ran into a lot of people whom we're not prepared this year. As much as I'd like to think that their would be less this up coming year. I fear that more people will not have water, food, or other things to survive. And even though their stupidity, it would be a crime for us to let the death count go up.

C187 wrote:Would there be...Car's, Truck's...Park tables...Park benches...and Park public restrooms......for people to sleep in? Because I know that I'd never sleep in the summer of 03, and a few other times with out them. Personally I didn't consider myself homeless, just a squatter. But to me it resonates a more realistic point then cardboard.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if anyone is going to have a shelter theme camp this upcoming year? I don't know about the rest of you, but I ran into a lot of people whom we're not prepared this year. As much as I'd like to think that their would be less this up coming year. I fear that more people will not have water, food, or other things to survive. And even though their stupidity, it would be a crime for us to let the death count go up.

Ideas?

Obviously some folks will be driving into BRC and their vehicles will be parked near camp. No plans for park benches or private porta-potties, but you are welcome to try and sleep in an event protapottie if you dare. Just be sure to tell them what camp you are with when they try to haul you out. We could do a shelter workshop, how to find a squat, how to safely clean the squat of needles and other biohazards, how to keep it clean, how to interact with your new neighbors, etc etc. You could host the workshop. In defense of geodesics, I met a reformed squatter turned urban survivor that had set up a small geo near Baltimore. His dome was setup in a locale slightly more illegal than the avg. squatter but much harder to find. As far as the preparedness of the avg. raver I could really care less. You gotta be a fuckwit of the highest magnitude to show up in the desert with no water. One thing I brought plenty of was water. I also always did my ice runs FIRST thing when I woke up since I liked to keep my camelbak cold.