I just posted the following in a thread in the .223 self-loading rifle subforum. I think this applies mostly to the rifle, gun rights, and .223 self-loading rifle subforums.

I'm seeing a heck of a lot of threads and posts that follow either of two lines: 1. I'm a complete newbie, I don't have the patience to read and absorb the existing stuff, please tell me quickly all I need to know to get lowers, and also keep it very simple, because I'm not comfortable with complicated concepts, and I don't want to hear about the twisted legal situation. 2. The evil government jack-booted thugs are out to get us, they will tickle all law-abiding gun owners until they are blue in their faces, they will confiscate our livers and spleens, the sky is falling.

These posts and thread are bad - they dilute they wonderful information and exchange of opinions that takes place, they make the discussion hard to search, and they create a fatalistic aura of impending doom, contributing to the paranoia that can prevent people from making rational decisions. The first kind of question is also dangerous: a person should not enter into owning these rifles with their complex legal status without a full understanding of the situation. Even though it might smell of censorship to some, I think it would be a good idea if the moderators/administrators cleaned away such things.

What do others think? Is it more important to have a tidy forum with good discussions and concentrated information? Or is it more important that all california gun lovers (including newbies and fools and paranoids) can ask questions and post their opinions, and leave a permanent record thereof?

GTKrockeTT

01-11-2006, 10:10 PM

amen, brother.

Rascal

01-11-2006, 10:21 PM

+1 on that.

Sgt Raven

01-11-2006, 10:23 PM

I vote clean 'em up, amen bother.

rssslvr

01-11-2006, 10:36 PM

please:) pretty please

blacklisted

01-12-2006, 12:28 AM

Clean it up.

One day it's "my FFL called DoJ and they are going to confiscate all lowers".
The next it's "They are not going on the list".
One hour later "My friend's cousin's FFL said they are going to be added, but will still have to retain the fixed mag".

Enough is enough!

metalhead357

01-12-2006, 2:11 AM

I
I'm seeing a heck of a lot of threads and posts that follow either of two lines: 1. I'm a complete newbie, I don't have the patience to read and absorb the existing stuff, please tell me quickly all I need to know to get lowers, and also keep it very simple, because I'm not comfortable with complicated concepts, and I don't want to hear about the twisted legal situation. 2. .........................
What do others think? Is it more important to have a tidy forum with good discussions and concentrated information? Or is it more important that all california gun lovers (including newbies and fools and paranoids) can ask questions and post their opinions, and leave a permanent record thereof?

Ok, ANOTHER complete newbie to THIS forum but neither to Gun boards or to guns. You asked what others think, so here it is.........

As a newbie here, the friggin threads keep changing. They are/were changing LITTERLLY in the middle of me reading some of them, I read on page 1 of thread "XYX" and proceed to hit the tab to page two and nada, nothing, bad page. Ok...WTF? Go back to the top pages and see its been either moved, closed, deleted and renamed or just deleted. Threads that had info on HOW TO GET one of these lowers was chaning almost hourly it seemd. I was on vacation up until about a week ago and it was friggin ridiculous around here trying to find information that I was just looking at even ten minutes prior..... OR how about the DONT PM me 'lest you do a,b,d,f...but if you do c,e, or g I'll just ignore you....and then NOT proceed to tell you what a,b,c,d,e,f, or g ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, EVEN I can admit there seems some strange and stupid posts that looks like its come from other newbie posters. But that's life on the internet. It'll die down. It always does once the newness of a site wears thin or the 'flaor of the day' has run out.....

The General feeling though that I personally keep getting in the last two days , from SOME but not allhere is 'screw the new guys'....and to that all I can basically say is "Thanks, nice to be made sooooo frigin' welcomed here" We'll go when we have our info and allow the rest of you to get back to your hollier than thou ivory towers.....

DO you actually think that you're doing anyone any favors in terms of expanding OUR beloved sport when you crap on newbies?????? Do you think OUR beloved sport's base of grass-routes supporters is actually going to GROW? Would YOU want to read from senoir members that you're regarded as a friggin idiot because there are umpteen similar threads THAT ARE filled with garbage, rumor, and nothing substantial about HOW to get a lower or WHY its legal right now, or HOW NOT to get arrested once you obtain one?

To the "rest" of y'all THAT HAVE BEEN NICE and HAVE BEEN INFORMATIVE and patient-- THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!, For the others though, what can I say? The net sometimes has a long memory and I hope you're not un-welcomed' in the same way some have been here when/if you travel to other boards; many (like me) belong to several, and disrespect carries with you................just ask Charlie Wenzel:eek:

Just my semi-solicited $0.02 for food for thought...........

Metalhead

rssslvr

01-12-2006, 8:50 AM

there is nothing wrong with being a newbie but when i see newbies asking stupid questions that they can already find the answers to in a thread and are just to lazy to search for it,or post nothing but hearsay bulls**t (my cousins girlfreinds sister's ffl told me...),or they start trashing the senior members that worked so hard to make this happen,it really pisses me off.alot of the newbies are only here to try and get lowers and that is it.if people need help understanding something that is fine people are glad to help but please look for the answer to your questions in the other threads before you post an already answered one and stop posting bulls**t speculation and have some respect for the people that made this happen.i am not talking to you specificly just the new people in general.you may not be one of those people so please don't take it personaly

Bushmaster17

01-14-2006, 12:59 AM

there is nothing wrong with being a newbie but when i see newbies asking stupid questions that they can already find the answers to in a thread and are just to lazy to search for it,or post nothing but hearsay bulls**t (my cousins girlfreinds sister's ffl told me...),or they start trashing the senior members that worked so hard to make this happen,it really pisses me off.alot of the newbies are only here to try and get lowers and that is it.if people need help understanding something that is fine people are glad to help but please look for the answer to your questions in the other threads before you post an already answered one and stop posting bulls**t speculation and have some respect for the people that made this happen.i am not talking to you specificly just the new people in general.you may not be one of those people so please don't take it personaly

I was always taught that "no question is stupid"

this is a new realm to people and word of these CA legal lowers are JUST getting to some out there including myself. We dont know what the laws, rules or regulations are. I asked a simple question and get two people jumping down my throat. Just curious, Have you read the other gun forums and seen what people have been saying about the "Elitist" mentality over here?

Ease up will ya? We all dont have the answers and we want to know them. We are becoming our worst enemy by driving away people that want to know.

There is one guy on AR15.com that is asking basic simple questions that answers are obvious yet he is getting straight answers without the ridicule that he would have gotten here.

guide those that dont know.

ligamentum flavum

01-14-2006, 12:50 PM

I was always taught that "no question is stupid"

this is a new realm to people and word of these CA legal lowers are JUST getting to some out there including myself. We dont know what the laws, rules or regulations are. I asked a simple question and get two people jumping down my throat. Just curious, Have you read the other gun forums and seen what people have been saying about the "Elitist" mentality over here?

Ease up will ya? We all dont have the answers and we want to know them. We are becoming our worst enemy by driving away people that want to know.

There is one guy on AR15.com that is asking basic simple questions that answers are obvious yet he is getting straight answers without the ridicule that he would have gotten here.

guide those that dont know.

I honestly don't get the feeling that people are being "elitist" here. I get the feeling that many of the established members are tired of "newbs" coming in and possibly mucking up the works by annoying the California DOJ with questions about if brand XX or brand YY will be on the list. There are specific stickied posts stating that it would be in everyones' interest to be patient and let DOJ move forward without further innundating them with questions regarding off-list lowers. Therefore, some unsuspecting harmless newbs have been projected upon to be an annoyance. I honestly don't think it's personal. We're all very interested in propagating the sport of shooting. But it's stressful times right now, and not everyone can take repeated "newb questions" with as much patience.

I've been on calguns for a while now, and I've mostly been the reading type, not asking too many questions. from my perspective, it's been a wealth of info. just take the time to peruse and search before posting.

I agree 100% with you whole heartedly. That link is a plethora of information that basically answers most of the questions. Some questions are not answered there (how many times you go to a FAQ section of a website and your ONE question that you have is not listed?? Happened to me more times than I can count:eek: )

I honestly can say that Bweise, tenpercent a quite a few others have taught me as well as many others so much just by their posts its incredible.

But a "Newbie" thread is a GREAT idea and for those that are bothered by such questions, just post "Perhaps your question is best answered here: Then post a link to the Newbie thread" and that way you dont run off what could be a great asset to our sport and others wont think this site is for a bunch of "elitists"