I too used to hop on the cheese-eating surrender monkey band-wagon. And I do absolutely hate any time the French get involved in the command level in NATO operations and UN jobs, but they're some pretty legit badasses when not being strategically stupid.

The last time French did something like this the US ended up stuck in Vietnam for 20 years

I'd wake up and there'd be nothing. I hardly said a word to my wife, until I said "yes" to a divorce. When I was here, I wanted to be there; when I was there, all I could think of was getting back into the jungle. I'm here a week now... waiting for a mission... getting softer. Every minute I stay in this room, I get weaker, and every minute Charlie squats in the bush, he gets stronger. Each time I looked around the walls moved in a little tighter.

gopher321:Well, let's hope France is more successful in Mali then other western nations have been in Afghanistan.

/I will admit I had to look Mali up on a map

You do know we won that war, right? Destroyed the existing government, scattered their military, instilled a government of our choosing and all that all while losing what, historically, is a tiny number of service members?

meanmutton:gopher321: Well, let's hope France is more successful in Mali then other western nations have been in Afghanistan.

/I will admit I had to look Mali up on a map

You do know we won that war, right? Destroyed the existing government, scattered their military, instilled a government of our choosing and all that all while losing what, historically, is a tiny number of service members?

Don't mistake half-time for the final buzzer. We came out strong in the first quarter but lost our focus in the second and let them mount a significant comeback. Right now we're in the 4th quarter, going full "prevent" and hoping the clock runs out and we can get out of here with a notch in the "w" column no matter how ugly the victory

Magorn:meanmutton: gopher321: Well, let's hope France is more successful in Mali then other western nations have been in Afghanistan.

/I will admit I had to look Mali up on a map

You do know we won that war, right? Destroyed the existing government, scattered their military, instilled a government of our choosing and all that all while losing what, historically, is a tiny number of service members?

Don't mistake half-time for the final buzzer. We came out strong in the first quarter but lost our focus in the second and let them mount a significant comeback. Right now we're in the 4th quarter, going full "prevent" and hoping the clock runs out and we can get out of here with a notch in the "w" column no matter how ugly the victory

It's like saying all doctors are failures because the patient inevitably dies.We left the Vietnamese with a functional military, government, and weapons to spare.

/screwed the pooch when it came to enforcing treaties, but sun is life with an elected government.

Don't fool yourself skippy. The french aren't INCAPABLE of military savagery and competence, they just made a decision not to for the last 50 years or so. Especially in northern Africa. I'm betting that there are a lot of folks who will be concerned to see the french flag returning to Algeria.

Fun fact: Mali and Burkina Faso went to war once, back in the 1980s. Te war lasted for five or six days until both sides ran out of resources, so they just stopped. Burkina Faso did somehow manage to get ahold of a single bomb, but they couldn't muster enough fuel to fly it over Bamako so they just dropped it on the closest border town they could find.

meanmutton:gopher321: Well, let's hope France is more successful in Mali then other western nations have been in Afghanistan.

/I will admit I had to look Mali up on a map

You do know we won that war, right? Destroyed the existing government, scattered their military, instilled a government of our choosing and all that all while losing what, historically, is a tiny number of service members?

How do you define "won"? Because it seems pretty clear that our military is still there. The enemy is still there. People are still dying. The people our folks are training to take control of the country are killing the ones training them. The enemy, that was harboring "world enemy #1" was not harboring him any longer. It was one of our allies (Pakistan) that was harboring him.

So to say that war was won is a total fallacy. All our forces did was further destabilize a country that was already an atrocious mess.

fireclown:Don't fool yourself skippy. The french aren't INCAPABLE of military savagery and competence, they just made a decision not to for the last 50 years or so. Especially in northern Africa. I'm betting that there are a lot of folks who will be concerned to see the french flag returning to Algeria.

Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...

Deucednuisance:wrt the headline: How long does it take for something false and defamatory and not funny in the first place to become officially unfunny through weariness over its repetition?

Because, as you kids say, this joke is both "old" and "busted".

And now I have a picture of Sophia Loren stuck in my mind's eye....

I'm sure the French, deep down, love the stigma (at least from a strategic point of view) "Please, underestimate my military, it makes everything so much easier when you prepare for people who will lay down their guns at the first sign of danger."

Nurglitch:fireclown: Don't fool yourself skippy. The french aren't INCAPABLE of military savagery and competence, they just made a decision not to for the last 50 years or so. Especially in northern Africa. I'm betting that there are a lot of folks who will be concerned to see the french flag returning to Algeria.

Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...

tallen702:I too used to hop on the cheese-eating surrender monkey band-wagon. And I do absolutely hate any time the French get involved in the command level in NATO operations and UN jobs, but they're some pretty legit badasses when not being strategically stupid.

Historically, the French have been fearless sonsofb*tches. Including America's own revolution.

I remember when France balked at Iraq, and people here in New Orleans were removing their French flags from homes and businesses. It struck me as odd - no - retarded. Granted, in 2003 most Americans were under the spell of the "with us or against us" mentality, so I guess it makes sense in hindsight.

Nurglitch:Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...

The irony is not lost upon me. Without the french navy we would still be English. Their rep comes from their capitulation to the Germans in WWII. It was sadly the only real choice they could make, as they found themselves up against some real game-changing shiat. We in the US like to talk a big game about surrendering to ze germans, but talk is cheap over here where we don't share a 500 mile border with them.

meanmutton:gopher321: Well, let's hope France is more successful in Mali then other western nations have been in Afghanistan.

/I will admit I had to look Mali up on a map

You do know we won that war, right? Destroyed the existing government, scattered their military, instilled a government of our choosing and all that all while losing what, historically, is a tiny number of service members?

We will leave soon and the ISI backed talibs will overrun the country. Karzai had better have secreted all of his stolen cash out before then.

Intoxoman:France sent the Legion to the first Gulf War and its likely they are the troops sent to Mali. From what I've heard they are farking crazy.

Invoking the Legionaires is counter-productive. It doesn't help dispel the popular stereotype of the French's lack of martial valor that the most bad-ass unit in their entire military is made up of foreigners

dickfreckle:tallen702: I too used to hop on the cheese-eating surrender monkey band-wagon. And I do absolutely hate any time the French get involved in the command level in NATO operations and UN jobs, but they're some pretty legit badasses when not being strategically stupid.

Historically, the French have been fearless sonsofb*tches. Including America's own revolution.

I remember when France balked at Iraq, and people here in New Orleans were removing their French flags from homes and businesses. It struck me as odd - no - retarded. Granted, in 2003 most Americans were under the spell of the "with us or against us" mentality, so I guess it makes sense in hindsight.

It does also require one to be pig farking ignorant of the history of the country that one is claiming to be totally in love with.

fireclown:Nurglitch: Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...

The irony is not lost upon me. Without the french navy we would still be English. Their rep comes from their capitulation to the Germans in WWII. It was sadly the only real choice they could make, as they found themselves up against some real game-changing shiat. We in the US like to talk a big game about surrendering to ze germans, but talk is cheap over here where we don't share a 500 mile border with them.

A lot of the French Rep also comes from their performance in WWI as well. Their incredible, bloodthirsty incompetence during that war, as elitist , out-of-touch generals sent millions of soldiers into a meat grinder as they pursued 19th century military strategies in a 20th century war started the stereotype, and WWII just sealed it. Especially the perfomance of the Vichy France troops in combat (granted they were pretty unmotivated to fight the allies) . Ironically if you look back to WWII and immediately thereafter, the "Cheese-eating surrender monkey" label was stuck a lot more firmly to the Italians than the French. I think the souring of US-French realtions in the 50's and 60's and DeGaulle's basic obnoxiousness did a lot to help transfer that meme to his nation instead, though thier crushing defeat at Dien Bien Phu didn't help either

Magorn:Invoking the Legionaires is counter-productive. It doesn't help dispel the popular stereotype of the French's lack of martial valor that the most bad-ass unit in their entire military is made up of foreigners

It's kind of a French arrogance thing. It lets them sort of deny that horrible things were done to people who weren't really french (Algerians and other colonials) by soldiers who weren't really french (Les Legioniarres).

For a pretty cool look at the legion, check out the book "Mouthful Of Rocks". It's by an English guy who joined up in the late '80s, and ended up deserting. A great read.

Nurglitch:fireclown: Don't fool yourself skippy. The french aren't INCAPABLE of military savagery and competence, they just made a decision not to for the last 50 years or so. Especially in northern Africa. I'm betting that there are a lot of folks who will be concerned to see the french flag returning to Algeria.

Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...

This.The French have just a bit of history in Africa. Very little of it is pretty except for the most recent decades. shiat, their war to maintain Algeria as a colony was recent and that was downright nasty. Algeria wouldn't even let French war planes in their airspace during Libya, the fact they are letting them now is downright shocking.

fireclown:Don't fool yourself skippy. The french aren't INCAPABLE of military savagery and competence, they just made a decision not to for the last 50 years or so. Especially in northern Africa. I'm betting that there are a lot of folks who will be concerned to see the french flag returning to Algeria.

We tell the folks to relax, because the French aren't in Algeria.

They are in Mali. Along with a coalition of African troops from neighboring countries.

Wicked Chinchilla:The French have just a bit of history in Africa. Very little of it is pretty except for the most recent decades. shiat, their war to maintain Algeria as a colony was recent and that was downright nasty.

Remember when France conquered nearly all of Europe? Remember when France lost 1.4 million soldiers fighting in WWI? Remember when France facilitated our revolution?

Of course not. The French refused to buy into the bullshiat that the Bush administration was spreading around when it was trying to convince everyone to go to war in Iraq. Therefore, France (which, we cannot now dispute, was completely right about the whole thing) sucks..

Magorn:meanmutton: gopher321: Well, let's hope France is more successful in Mali then other western nations have been in Afghanistan.

/I will admit I had to look Mali up on a map

You do know we won that war, right? Destroyed the existing government, scattered their military, instilled a government of our choosing and all that all while losing what, historically, is a tiny number of service members?

Don't mistake half-time for the final buzzer. We came out strong in the first quarter but lost our focus in the second and let them mount a significant comeback. Right now we're in the 4th quarter, going full "prevent" and hoping the clock runs out and we can get out of here with a notch in the "w" column no matter how ugly the victory