even with private servers which is very small amount of ppl thats still not going to get you to 10 mil. I dont know the % of ppl with multiple accounts but one of my friends used to have 4 but closed one down i believe and i think he only has 3 right now. Then you got the multi boxers and the botters so yea theres prolly as many ppl on private servers as their are ppl with multiple accounts that are active.

World of Warcraftsubscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards.

So they dont say anything about ppl with multiple accounts or more than one active pre paid card. Or game room players with multiple accounts. Its still inflating.

and my point about the chinese isnt how much they are paying its how its counted. They pay per hour or w.e but they only have to access it once to becounted as a full sub. A sub in my book is a person who is paying for a full month, not a person who only wants to play for a few hours each month because thats all they can afford yet blizz makes it look like they have access the entire month when they dont.

If someone has multiple accounts, each account counts as one subscription I'm sure because each account brings in $15 (US that is). Why wouldn't multiple accounts owned by one person be counted as multiple subscriptions. The issue is the number of subscriptions not the number of players. That would seen obvious.

even with private servers which is very small amount of ppl thats still not going to get you to 10 mil. I dont know the % of ppl with multiple accounts but one of my friends used to have 4 but closed one down i believe and i think he only has 3 right now. Then you got the multi boxers and the botters so yea theres prolly as many ppl on private servers as their are ppl with multiple accounts that are active.

Activision/Blizzard is a public company regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission and all sorts of US and international laws. Obviously private (illegal) servers aren't counted. Every real account is counted even if someone owns multiple accounts. Your post is simply wrong and quite juvenile.

Activision/Blizzard is a public company regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission and all sorts of US and international laws. Obviously private (illegal) servers aren't counted. Every real account is counted even if someone owns multiple accounts. Your post is simply wrong and quite juvenile.

my post was responding to another post. Jumping in mid convo and criticizing me for somthing when you didnt read the entire couple of posts is juvenile. Read who i was quoting and then what my response was.

Originally Posted by Ragedaug

I love how an 8 year old game can sell more copies of an expansion in 24 hours then any other MMO has subscribers and we can still have a debate about whether or not the game is dead.

WoW is doing just fine.

i love how no one in this thread mentions WoW being dead except for posters like you who continue to bring up the fact that ppl are saying its dead. Ive seen maybe 1 poster here back in prolly the first 10 pages say that this 2.7 mil decline shows WoW is dead. No one else has even come close to saying that. All we said is that its not a good thing. There have been prolly 10+ posters who have come here and said basically what you are saying.

i love how no one in this thread mentions WoW being dead except for posters like you who continue to bring up the fact that ppl are saying its dead. Ive seen maybe 1 poster here back in prolly the first 10 pages say that this 2.7 mil decline shows WoW is dead. No one else has even come close to saying that. All we said is that its not a good thing. There have been prolly 10+ posters who have come here and said basically what you are saying.

If you haven't seen anyone mention or question whether WoW was dying, then I would say you are extremely new to these (or any World of Warcraft Forums). That said, you have nearly 1,000 posts on these forums which makes me wonder how it is possible that you can't remember anyone debating whether or not this game is dying. But yeah, if you really need it, let me know. I'll link you some threads from posters who aren't like me that are discussing WoW being dead.

I love how an 8 year old game can sell more copies of an expansion in 24 hours then any other MMO has subscribers and we can still have a debate about whether or not the game is dead.

WoW is doing just fine.

I don't get it, were you really doubting that the game was/is doing fine? Of course the game is doing just fine. Every WoW fan should know that and if someone said that the game is dead then you should simply ignore and move on. The game can't die over the course of 1 expansion, it's just to big and has to many players to do that.

"Sold more copies then any other MMO's" Well, duh. It had 9.1m subs before MoP, think about it.

However, the game is slowly declining and that's understandable for a game which has been out for 8 years.

If you haven't seen anyone mention or question whether WoW was dying, then I would say you are extremely new to these (or any World of Warcraft Forums). That said, you have nearly 1,000 posts on these forums which makes me wonder how it is possible that you can't remember anyone debating whether or not this game is dying. But yeah, if you really need it, let me know. I'll link you some threads from posters who aren't like me that are discussing WoW being dead.

The person you quoted said "i love how no one in this thread mentions WoW being dead except for posters like you who continue to bring up the fact that ppl are saying its dead."

If you haven't seen anyone mention or question whether WoW was dying, then I would say you are extremely new to these (or any World of Warcraft Forums). That said, you have nearly 1,000 posts on these forums which makes me wonder how it is possible that you can't remember anyone debating whether or not this game is dying. But yeah, if you really need it, let me know. I'll link you some threads from posters who aren't like me that are discussing WoW being dead.

Originally Posted by Gray_Matter

The person you quoted said "i love how no one in this thread mentions WoW being dead except for posters like you who continue to bring up the fact that ppl are saying its dead."

The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.
Want to chat with people who aren't idiots? Join our IRC.

Is that the new bullshit argument of the day?
"Their definition includes someone that played on the first of the month, and he/she might not be playing now (three days later!)."

Because that is exactly what you are saying.

Huh, what. the. fuck?
You should really go back to school and learn what facts are.

Now suck it up and accept that the game has still 10 million people after you predicted its death a thousand times.

top notch response. first of all, you were the one saying that 10 million people were playing right now, and that the 10 million number was proof of that. i proved that was wrong, using Blizzards own definition of what constitutes a "subscriber". if you cant accept that, its your problem. it doesnt make it bullshit, it just makes it something that you have decided to ignore by sticking your fingers in your ears and going "lalala, im not listening".

as for the "go back to school" part, that did give me a chuckle. i know what constitutes a fact. you seem to think that not agreeing with your view means it cant possibly be a fact. who needs to relearn the meaning of fact?

oh, and you finish up with the "fact" that i have predicted the death of WoW a thousand time. i think you will find i havent done that once. feel free to check my post history. hyperbole and lies isnt a strong way to finish your post, i have to say.

oh, and if you do respond to this, see if you can manage it without insults and swearing. its the adult way to discuss things, you know.

When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

Over the last 10 years, Blizzard has taken over $10bn from MMO players. Take a look around your game...do you see $10bn worth of content available to you? Do you see even a tiny fraction of that in relevant content? Now ask me again why I dislike what Blizzard has done to the MMO industry.

top notch response. first of all, you were the one saying that 10 million people were playing right now, and that the 10 million number was proof of that. i proved that was wrong, using Blizzards own definition of what constitutes a "subscriber". if you cant accept that, its your problem. it doesnt make it bullshit, it just makes it something that you have decided to ignore by sticking your fingers in your ears and going "lalala, im not listening".

as for the "go back to school" part, that did give me a chuckle. i know what constitutes a fact. you seem to think that not agreeing with your view means it cant possibly be a fact. who needs to relearn the meaning of fact?

oh, and you finish up with the "fact" that i have predicted the death of WoW a thousand time. i think you will find i havent done that once. feel free to check my post history. hyperbole and lies isnt a strong way to finish your post, i have to say.

oh, and if you do respond to this, see if you can manage it without insults and swearing. its the adult way to discuss things, you know.

It's incredible how you manage to write nine lines and still won't answer the big issue I started with!
Do you want me to quote your original statement again?for all we know that includes 9 million people who played MoP for one day in september and have now cancelled their subscription or stopped paying for game time.

If you really have to resort to that kind of nonsense to "disprove" that WoW has 10 million subscribers, than there can't be an adult discussion.

So yeah, I am done with that shit.
I know you are smarter than that, so I won't accept that nonsense from you or anyone else.
If you want a normal discussion, fine. But please don't start the whole "10 million subs is wrong because of X!".
It's useless, there is no way to prove anything and it simply has no point.

I'm really not interested in having a discussion in a month, when suddenly someone comes and yells: "But it aren't 10 million subs!" so we can repeat this crap all over again -_-'

It's incredible how you manage to write nine lines and still won't answer the big issue I started with!
Do you want me to quote your original statement again?for all we know that includes 9 million people who played MoP for one day in september and have now cancelled their subscription or stopped paying for game time.

If you really have to resort to that kind of nonsense to "disprove" that WoW has 10 million subscribers, than there can't be an adult discussion.

So yeah, I am done with that shit.
I know you are smarter than that, so I won't accept that nonsense from you or anyone else.
If you want a normal discussion, fine. But please don't start the whole "10 million subs is wrong because of X!".
It's useless, there is no way to prove anything and it simply has no point.

I'm really not interested in having a discussion in a month, when suddenly someone comes and yells: "But it aren't 10 million subs!" so we can repeat this crap all over again -_-'

so you will ignore my entire post explaining why the subscription numbers dont tell us how many people are playing, because of that one sentence? you have over eight thousand posts on this forum alone, and you havent come across anyone using an extreme example of a situation to drive home a point? i dont believe that, you dont believe that, at this point what you are doing is "clutching at straws".

i never said that i thought for 1 second that is actually did include 9 million people in that situation. i just pointed out that if it did....WE WOULDNT KNOW. which would make any reasonable person accept that you cant use subscription numbers to calculate how many people are playing. i guarantee you that noone working in Blizzard would do that.

and again you fall back on the "adult discussion" commment. while you swear and rant at me. do you even appreciate the irony of that?

When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

Over the last 10 years, Blizzard has taken over $10bn from MMO players. Take a look around your game...do you see $10bn worth of content available to you? Do you see even a tiny fraction of that in relevant content? Now ask me again why I dislike what Blizzard has done to the MMO industry.

so you will ignore my entire post explaining why the subscription numbers dont tell us how many people are playing, because of that one sentence? you have over eight thousand posts on this forum alone, and you havent come across anyone using an extreme example of a situation to drive home a point? i dont believe that, you dont believe that, at this point what you are doing is "clutching at straws".

It doesn't tell us that because some people might have two accounts, some even more.
But than we also have people on private servers and some people might have joined after the report.

Point remains: We have no idea how much it are precise and we only have ONE number to go by, so let's follow that one.

And it's not just that part, other people keep making up other ridiculous stuff!
Did you know that there are even people claiming they are lying about those numbers?

i never said that i thought for 1 second that is actually did include 9 million people in that situation. i just pointed out that if it did....WE WOULDNT KNOW. which would make any reasonable person accept that you cant use subscription numbers to calculate how many people are playing. i guarantee you that noone working in Blizzard would do that.

But it's the only number we can go by, and 10 million subscribers is a perfectly fine number to use.

Really, why are people so obsessed with a number?

and again you fall back on the "adult discussion" commment. while you swear and rant at me. do you even appreciate the irony of that?

I don't swear and rant at you.
I'm ranting at all the nonsense where people try to disprove that WoW has 10 million subscribers.
Why are they even doing that, what is the point in that?

Or should we go back to the post where someone claimed that Chinese people shouldn't be counted as subs, because he doesn't encounter them on his server?

It doesn't tell us that because some people might have two accounts, some even more.
But than we also have people on private servers and some people might have joined after the report.

....and it doesnt tell us that people included in that report had already left when the report was made. because of the way they do their counting. so we agree that the number is extremely flawed, in several ways. as i said earlier, it astounds me that this is the ONLY subscriber details that Blizzard gives its investors. if i were an investor i would be asking for a lot more, because that number is no use at all. after all, if someone quits on the 1st January, they dont show as a fall in subscriber numbers until july, when they publish the second quarter figures. crazy, imo.

(although, interestingly, if someone joined on 31st March, then they would show as an increase for 1st quarter. increases appear immediately, decreases can take 6 months to show through. do you see now why i dont think people should be relying on this number for their arguments?)

Originally Posted by Kangodo

And it's not just that part, other people keep making up other ridiculous stuff!
Did you know that there are even people claiming they are lying about those numbers?

not me. i am well aware that publishing false information in published reports can lead to prosecutions. it doesnt guarantee the number is correct, but it would be a foolish thing for a company to fabricate this kind of information.

When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

Over the last 10 years, Blizzard has taken over $10bn from MMO players. Take a look around your game...do you see $10bn worth of content available to you? Do you see even a tiny fraction of that in relevant content? Now ask me again why I dislike what Blizzard has done to the MMO industry.

....and it doesnt tell us that people included in that report had already left when the report was made. because of the way they do their counting. so we agree that the number is extremely flawed, in several ways. as i said earlier, it astounds me that this is the ONLY subscriber details that Blizzard gives its investors. if i were an investor i would be asking for a lot more, because that number is no use at all. after all, if someone quits on the 1st January, they dont show as a fall in subscriber numbers until july, when they publish the second quarter figures. crazy, imo.

(although, interestingly, if someone joined on 31st March, then they would show as an increase for 1st quarter. increases appear immediately, decreases can take 6 months to show through. do you see now why i dont think people should be relying on this number for their arguments?)

They give a lot of information to investors in the quarterly report.
This wasn't that report, this was just some news-report because they released a new expansion.
As it was worded, it says that at this moment they have 10 million subscriptions.

This number might be flawed, yet it is the only one one have.
We can speculate all we want, but it will all be guesses and bad estimations.

not me. i am well aware that publishing false information in published reports can lead to prosecutions. it doesnt guarantee the number is correct, but it would be a foolish thing for a company to fabricate this kind of information.

But we both know how many people are either stupid or trolling on this forum.

But we both know how many people are either stupid or trolling on this forum.

sadly, i have to agree with you on this.

When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

Over the last 10 years, Blizzard has taken over $10bn from MMO players. Take a look around your game...do you see $10bn worth of content available to you? Do you see even a tiny fraction of that in relevant content? Now ask me again why I dislike what Blizzard has done to the MMO industry.