77 responses to Want an F30 that handles like an E46? Answer: BMW M Performance Parts

Alpine300ZHP commented: November 18, 2012, 9:34 am

As a former ZHP owner I think it is really hard to come close to the special magic of the old ZHP. I still regret selling mine. IMHO the best way to get an F30 close to the ZHP is to buy a 335i with standard m sport suspension and 6MT. Start with that and see how it feels. It has been a while since I owned my ZHP, but, from what I can remember, the feel is similar. I would try this before I changed out any suspension bits as you might find that change not necessary. Agree with you on getting the PSS tires.

SamS commented: November 18, 2012, 9:53 am

You're gonna need to add the Dynamic Handling package for $1k, if you want to get close to replicating that E46 feel.

sean10mm commented: November 18, 2012, 10:23 am

People are seriously overrating the E46 ZHP. A 328i with the sport suspension, 6MT and all-season run flat tires (!) put up the same 0-60 time and better lateral grip than the old 330i ZHP did on staggered summer tires.

A 335i 6MT DHP with summer tires would kill the old ZHP. So much for performance being dead.

SergioK commented: November 18, 2012, 10:25 am

Now I'm wondering how the M springs would match up to the DH electronic shocks. I'm most likely going to get some better swaybars, just not sure who's.

Alpine300ZHP commented: November 18, 2012, 10:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean10mm

People are seriously overrating the E46 ZHP. A 328i with the sport suspension, 6MT and all-season run flat tires (!) put up the same 0-60 time and better lateral grip than the old 330i ZHP on staggered summer tires.

Did you own a ZHP? The car was way more than the sum of its parts and way more than 0-60 times. I cannot put it into words. You had to own one to understand. I have owned M3's and still say my old ZHP was one of the best BMW's to ever grace my garage. The only other modern BMW I have seen to develop this level of cult following is the 1 series M coupe.

sean10mm commented: November 18, 2012, 10:28 am

And the 330i ZHP's curb weight of 3,370 is almost exactly the same as the 328i's curb weight of 3,390.

BUT THE F30 IS SO BIG AND HEAVY

Alpine300ZHP commented: November 18, 2012, 10:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergioK

Now I'm wondering how the M springs would match up to the DH electronic shocks. I'm most likely going to get some better swaybars, just not sure who's.

I would probably go for standard M sport suspension and pass on the DHP. If that was insufficient then I would modify the M sport suspension. Electric aids do not feel the same as a true sport suspension and for the best feel the true sport suspension is my preference.

SamS commented: November 18, 2012, 10:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

I would probably go for standard M sport suspension and pass on the DHP. If that was insufficient then I would modify the M sport suspension. Electric aids do not feel the same as a true sport suspension and for the best feel the true sport suspension is my preference.

The standard M sport suspension is good, but not perfect. DHP is what you want.

justinnum1 commented: November 18, 2012, 10:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

I would probably go for standard M sport suspension and pass on the DHP. If that was insufficient then I would modify the M sport suspension. Electric aids do not feel the same as a true sport suspension and for the best feel the true sport suspension is my preference.

totally agree.

av98 commented: November 18, 2012, 11:20 am

Not sure if you guys read the link for the BMW M Performance requirements but the DHP needs to be turned off if you have this new suspension upgrade put on. Just goes to show that the DHP is not what you would want if you need an M type suspension system.

I guess I should give a little background as to why I put this thread up. I've test driven both F30s in 328i AT and 335i 6MT w/DHP trims but was thoroughly unimpressed and even disappointed. As a current E46 ZHP owner for the last 4 1/2 years, I was highly looking forward to upgrade to the F30. Unfortunately, after all these test drives, I was going to wait for the M Sport or equivalent upgrade, as I wanted a car as close to my ZHP as possible. Then as others in the thread have pointed out, the M Sport package was mostly cosmetic with the only real performance upgrade being the brake pads, sigh .

On the DHP, as I've posted in the other threads, I felt that I could out drive the suspension and it caused a 1/2 second delay before the suspension would settle or adapt to my driving technique changes. Definitely something I don't have to worry about on the E46 ZHP or any E9x models I've driven before (330i, 335i, 328i, 325i).

As Alpine300ZHP has pointed out, the sum of the ZHP package is more than the raw numbers or equivalent E9x version specs. Most people will not understand this unless you've actually owned it. BMW got it completely dialed in as far as a balance in precision for steering (12.5:1 [yes that is the smallest ratio similar to a Miata on any BMW, beats any DHP type adaptive steering all day]), suspension (originally Sachs shocks/struts, I've since improved by upgrading to Koni yellows. It also had springs that were stiffer and lower [1/2 inch or 40mm], similar to the sport equipped E46), braking, driving dynamics, comfort. It wasn't as harsh & raw as an E46 or E9x M3 but was not as underpowered or anemic in the power & suspension department as a sport E46. It also wasn't as overly too stiff and unrefined as the E9x equivalents that replaced it 06 330i or 07-2011 328i. The E9x 330i Sport from 06 was probably the closest thing but unfortunately, with the E9x gain in length & slight amount of weight the driving dynamics were not equivalent. Just a correction, the E46 ZHP's weight was 3280 lbs.

Alpine300ZHP commented: November 18, 2012, 11:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by av98

Not sure if you guys read the link for the BMW M Performance requirements but the DHP needs to be turned off if you have this new suspension upgrade put on. Just goes to show that the DHP is not what you would want if you need an M type suspension system.

I guess I should give a little background as to why I put this thread up. I've test driven both F30s in 328i AT and 335i 6MT w/DHP trims but was thoroughly unimpressed and even disappointed. As a current E46 ZHP owner for the last 4 1/2 years, I was highly looking forward to upgrade to the F30. Unfortunately, after all these test drives, I was going to wait for the M Sport or equivalent upgrade, as I wanted a car as close to my ZHP as possible. Then as others in the thread have pointed out, the M Sport package was mostly cosmetic with the only real performance upgrade being the brake pads, sigh .

On the DHP, as I've posted in the other threads, I felt that I could out drive the suspension and it caused a 1/2 second delay before the suspension would settle or adapt to my driving technique changes. Definitely something I don't have to worry about on the E46 ZHP or any E9x models I've driven before (330i, 335i, 328i, 325i).

As Alpine300ZHP has pointed out, the sum of the ZHP package is more than the raw numbers or equivalent E9x version specs. Most people will not understand this unless you've actually owned it. BMW got it completely dialed in as far as a balance in precision for suspension, braking, driving dynamics, comfort. It wasn't as harsh & raw as an E46 or E9x M3 but was not as underpowered or anemic in the power & suspension department as a sport E46. It also wasn't as overly too stiff and unrefined as the E9x equivalents that replaced it 06 330i or 07-2011 328i. The E9x 330i Sport from 06 was probably the closest thing but unfortunately, with the E9x gain in length & slight amount of weight the driving dynamics were not equivalent. Just a correction, the E46 ZHP's weight was 3280 lbs.

As a former ZHP owner I can understand what you are saying. Finding a replacement is going to be tough...I never could. I can only guess that a heavily modified F30 might be able to come close to the ZHP, but BMW does not currently make anything from the factory that fits what you want. I am interested to see what you end up getting. If I can think of ANY car that comes close to the ZHP that is still being built it would be the 335is coupe. It is the only BMW out there that comes close from the factory IMHO. Question is if or not a coupe will work for you.

av98 commented: November 18, 2012, 11:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

As a former ZHP owner I can understand what you are saying. Finding a replacement is going to be tough...I never could. I can only guess that a heavily modified F30 might be able to come close to the ZHP, but BMW does not currently make anything from the factory that fits what you want. I am interested to see what you end up getting. If I can think of ANY car that comes close to the ZHP that is still being built it would be the 335is coupe. It is the only BMW out there that comes close from the factory IMHO. Question is if or not a coupe will work for you.

I totally agree the 335is was the closest equivalent, unfortunately, there was no sedan. I would have to say the E8x 135i and 1M are also pretty close equivalents.

That's the dilemma I'm having, unfortunately with 3 kids, the coupe or vert is out of the question; otherwise I would be in an E46 M3 or that E9x 335is.

So the F30 with the M performance upgrades, is the most viable path.

CALWATERBOY commented: November 18, 2012, 11:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

As a former ZHP owner I can understand what you are saying. Finding a replacement is going to be tough...I never could. I can only guess that a heavily modified F30 might be able to come close to the ZHP, but BMW does not currently make anything from the factory that fits what you want. I am interested to see what you end up getting. If I can think of ANY car that comes close to the ZHP that is still being built it would be the 335is coupe. It is the only BMW out there that comes close from the factory IMHO. Question is if or not a coupe will work for you.

M3 & Porsche not in the zone?

Or, mod....works miracle.

Alpine300ZHP commented: November 18, 2012, 12:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by av98

I totally agree the 335is was the closest equivalent, unfortunately, there was no sedan. I would have to say the E8x 135i and 1M are also pretty close equivalents.

That's the dilemma I'm having, unfortunately with 3 kids, the coupe or vert is out of the question; otherwise I would be in an E46 M3 or that E9x 335is.

So the F30 with the M performance upgrades, is the most viable path.

I had a 135i coupe and I agree that it is close to the ZHP, but I personally feel the 335is out of the box is closer as its handling is more dialed in. Regardless, none of this matters because you need a sedan. Looks like my suggestion of a base 335i M sport is the way to go and mod it as you see fit. The car is so new that you will literally be charting the path on your own as I doubt there are many modded cars out there for you to use as a blueprint. This can get expensive quickly. Figure 50-52k for a lightly optioned 335 m sport plus at least 5k in mods we are looking at almost 60k (before discounts). This leads me to a possibly better idea. If you can wait another year you might want to wait for the F32 M3 sedan. The new M5 is softer than the old one so I suspect the new M3 will be as well. It might come closer to what you want out of the box? Pricing is unknown, but I expect low 60's for a base model with a couple of required options. Good luck.

Alpine300ZHP commented: November 18, 2012, 12:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

M3 & Porsche not in the zone?

Or, mod....works miracle.

You made a good point with the M3 idea. Porsche out since he needs a sedan.

av98 commented: November 18, 2012, 2:14 pm

Leaning towards a 328i m sport + M performance suspension, brake & power upgrades. Should put me under $50k with a car that isn't as nose heavy as the 335i. If the chip unlocks 20-30 hp/trq that is a perfect balance for the 3400lbs chassis.

Jamesonsviggen commented: November 18, 2012, 2:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by av98

Leaning towards a 328i sport + M performance suspension, brake & power upgrades. Should put me under $50k with a car that isn't as nose heavy as the 335i. If the chip unlocks 20-30 hp/trq that is a perfect balance for the 3400lbs chassis.

I had a loaner 335 this week. Trust me, that's a good game plan.

The 335 is not the end all be all it's stated to be sometimes.

I had no remorse when I gave the car back.

tturedraider commented: November 18, 2012, 2:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpine300zhp

did you own a zhp? The car was way more than the sum of its parts and way more than 0-60 times. I cannot put it into words. You had to own one to understand. I have owned m3's and still say my old zhp was one of the best bmw's to ever grace my garage. The only other modern bmw i have seen to develop this level of cult following is the 1 series m coupe.

+1

av98 commented: November 18, 2012, 3:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I had a loaner 335 this week. Trust me, that's a good game plan.

The 335 is not the end all be all it's stated to be sometimes.

I had no remorse when I gave the car back.

Plus another thing I don't like about the 335i and my ZHP is the low gas mileage= 20-21 mpg avg.

At least with the 328i you get 27 mpg combined; which really helps my 35 mile commute each way everyday.

Jamesonsviggen commented: November 18, 2012, 3:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by av98

Plus another thing I don't like about the 335i and my ZHP is the low gas mileage= 20-21 mpg avg.

At least with the 328i you get 27 mpg combined; which really helps my 35 mile commute each way everyday.

I average far better than that

The worst tank I ever had where I did 8 dyno pulls and romped it the rest of the time I still averaged 28mpg.

On a route I drive very easy I drove like an angel in both cars:

335 8at=35.5mpg
328 6mt=39.9mpg

I also see 450+ on the DTE at fill up, while the 335 was always about 50 miles lower. I have gotten 500+ miles of range on highway trips at 75-80mph.

av98 commented: November 18, 2012, 3:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I average far better than that

The worst tank I ever had where I did 8 dyno pulls and romped it the rest of the time I still averaged 28mpg.

On a route I drive very easy I drove like an angel in both cars:

335 8at=35.5mpg
328 6mt=39.9mpg

I also see 450+ on the DTE at fill up, while the 335 was always about 50 miles lower. I have gotten 500+ miles of range on highway trips at 75-80mph.

Unfortunately, I'm more impatient than 75-80 mph as I regularly avg 80-120 mph depending on the weather and how frustrated I am with traffic conditions.

So I figure a 27 mph avg is reasonable. That's great to know that the 328i avgs more mpg by a larger margin than the 335i.

accel commented: November 22, 2012, 12:57 am

Hm... Not sure what I missed, but several years ago I was looking for used e46 330 or e90 330/328/325. I needed a sedan replacement for my coupe that was dd / family / autocross car.

I was lucky and found used ZHP with only 25k miles nearby. Several E90s I test drove had comparable mileages.

And... I probably expected too much from that ZHP. Too soft per my taste. Best thing I liked about that car was its sound. Don't get me wrong, the car was good, but I didn't find anything very special about it.

I liked e90 more. Ended up buying new 328 zsp as it was not easy to find used one with specs I wanted. The sound of my e90 is a little boring compared to ZHP, but rest of the things suit me better.

Unless I missed something.

The coupe I had before was Honda Prelude. I never planned to buy one. I test drove one just because I had no plans for the evening and was offered a test drive. I ended up trading in my one year old car that day and buying the Prelude.

So maybe I expected some similar experience from ZHP test drive as well, but that did not happen.

av98 commented: November 22, 2012, 11:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by accel

Hm... Not sure what I missed, but several years ago I was looking for used e46 330 or e90 330/328/325. I needed a sedan replacement for my coupe that was dd / family / autocross car.

I was lucky and found used ZHP with only 25k miles nearby. Several E90s I test drove had comparable mileages.

And... I probably expected too much from that ZHP. Too soft per my taste. Best thing I liked about that car was its sound. Don't get me wrong, the car was good, but I didn't find anything very special about it.

I liked e90 more. Ended up buying new 328 zsp as it was not easy to find used one with specs I wanted. The sound of my e90 is a little boring compared to ZHP, but rest of the things suit me better.

Unless I missed something.

The coupe I had before was Honda Prelude. I never planned to buy one. I test drove one just because I had no plans for the evening and was offered a test drive. I ended up trading in my one year old car that day and buying the Prelude.

So maybe I expected some similar experience from ZHP test drive as well, but that did not happen.

Test drive an F30 to make sense of this thread

Chris90 commented: November 23, 2012, 1:17 pm

Surprised no one has mentioned the most key ingredient to an F30 ZHP, a Performance Exhaust. That's the best part of my ZHP.

I could build a ZHP out of an F30, but it would cost like $60 grand, and still not have any steering feel. I don't see the point, ZHPs aren't falling apart, I'm just gonna keep driving mine til it is starting to fall apart, and by then maybe look at a 2 series sedan.

justinnum1 commented: November 23, 2012, 3:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90

Surprised no one has mentioned the most key ingredient to an F30 ZHP, a Performance Exhaust. That's the best part of my ZHP.

I could build a ZHP out of an F30, but it would cost like $60 grand, and still not have any steering feel. I don't see the point, ZHPs aren't falling apart, I'm just gonna keep driving mine til it is starting to fall apart, and by then maybe look at a 2 series sedan.

wrong.

Chris90 commented: November 23, 2012, 3:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1

wrong.

ZHP needs to sound good. This rules out a 328i.

SergioK commented: November 23, 2012, 4:44 pm

Apples to oranges. You can't compare NA cars to FI cars. They make completely different sounds. Not to mention 4pots vs 6pots.

Chris90 commented: November 23, 2012, 4:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergioK

Apples to oranges. You can't compare NA cars to FI cars. They make completely different sounds. Not to mention 4pots vs 6pots.

You can tout the advantages of a turbo 4 all day, but the disadvantage is they sound like crap.

Don't agree.

My boosted S52 sounds sexy. My past breathed on turbo'd 4's sounded great too, the blow off sound, deeper tone of 3" downpipe, induction/intake sounds...really enjoyable. They are different. I will say that today's STOCK 4's with boost are very tame in regard to sound-most don't even have boost gauges. It's like they don't want to remind the average person they are forced induction. Most turbo 4's jobs today are to emulate a 6 cylinder in power delivery to the people who do not know what's under the hood. Remember the data that BMW 1 series owners, most did not even know if their cars were FWD or RWD...sad.

Chris90 commented: November 23, 2012, 5:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

Don't agree.

My boosted S52 sounds sexy. My past breathed on turbo'd 4's sounded great too, the blow off sound, deeper tone of 3" downpipe, induction/intake sounds...really enjoyable. They are different. I will say that today's STOCK 4's with boost are very tame in regard to sound-most don't even have boost gauges. It's like they don't want to remind the average person they are forced induction. Most turbo 4's jobs today are to emulate a 6 cylinder in power delivery to the people who do not know what's under the hood. Remember the data that BMW 1 series owners, most did not even know if their cars were FWD or RWD...sad.

S52 is a six, yes, they can sound good, like the 3.0L turbo. Though not as good as NA.

I wasn't talking heavy aftermarket anyway.

justinnum1 commented: November 23, 2012, 5:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90

ZHP needs to sound good. This rules out a 328i.

You have no clue what the 328 sounds like with performance exhaust. I see you still own your ZHP, so your opinion is obviously going to be heavily biased.

Jamesonsviggen commented: November 23, 2012, 6:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90

S52 is a six, yes, they can sound good, like the 3.0L turbo. Though not as good as NA.

I wasn't talking heavy aftermarket anyway.

Thanks for informing me my S52 is a six

An exhaust and an intake does not match my definition of "heavy aftermarket".

These have been the essentials of every car I have owned...even my wife's car has an intake(her request).

Chris90 commented: November 23, 2012, 7:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1

You have no clue what the 328 sounds like with performance exhaust. I see you still own your ZHP, so your opinion is obviously going to be heavily biased.

I've heard videos on the web. Perhaps you don't realize exhaust and engine sound are two different things?

I like cars, not just my own. And every single review of the 328i I've read mentions how it lost the sweet sound of the old six. I'm obviously not alone in my opinion.

Chris90 commented: November 23, 2012, 7:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

Thanks for informing me my S52 is a six

An exhaust and an intake does not match my definition of "heavy aftermarket".

These have been the essentials of every car I have owned...even my wife's car has an intake(her request).

Which turbo fours are you saying sound good?

av98 commented: November 23, 2012, 7:36 pm

IMHO, the F30 doesn't need an exhaust plus most of the new good ones aren't out yet. Ask Jamesonsviggen, his 328i was the test bed for the Rogue Engineering one coming out in Jan 2013. The dyno numbers were promising. F30 owners don't bash the ZHP owners as the goal is the same, to have a drivers car- DD, track, auto-x that is sharp as a razor but refined for everyday life; no compromises. ZHP owners don't bash the F30 unless you've actually driven it- 328i & 335i trims. The N20 has huge potential for a 2.0T 4 cylinder and it's more refined than the Subaru or Mitsu versions.

av98 commented: November 23, 2012, 7:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90

I've heard videos on the web. Perhaps you don't realize exhaust and engine sound are two different things?

I like cars, not just my own. And every single review of the 328i I've read mentions how it lost the sweet sound of the old six. I'm obviously not alone in my opinion.

I must agree on Chris90 with this but the proper exhausts with gains aren't released yet.

Jamesonsviggen commented: November 23, 2012, 7:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90

I've heard videos on the web. Perhaps you don't realize exhaust and engine sound are two different things?

I like cars, not just my own. And every single review of the 328i I've read mentions how it lost the sweet sound of the old six. I'm obviously not alone in my opinion.

exhaust clips on the web are nearly useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90

Which turbo fours are you saying sound good?

I had a Viggen and a VW CC, both sounded good. My F30 has no intake but exhaust sounds great...no more timid sound stock.

boltjaM3s commented: November 23, 2012, 8:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean10mm

People are seriously overrating the E46 ZHP. A 328i with the sport suspension, 6MT and all-season run flat tires (!) put up the same 0-60 time and better lateral grip than the old 330i ZHP did on staggered summer tires.

So I have an F30 Luxury line with the base suspension. I'm finding the body roll annoying and would like to firm things up a bit.

If I invest in some of these M Performance parts, will that keep my comfortable suspension and tighten up the body roll or will this in effect turn my car into a Sport line model with a very harsh suspension?

I guess there are now 4 non-adaptive suspensions. Can you or anyone else please clarify what the feeling differences are in regards to handling and body roll?

We assume that the standard suspension is the softest. But is it? Is the XDrive suspension softer than the Standard? The M Performance suspension firmer than the Sport suspension? Would be helpful to know what the baseline differences are between the suspensions. Ultimately I'd like to talk things out, but don't want to make a mistake. My E90 M Sport was way too harsh, I really like the F30 suspension but it could be a bit tighter.

BJ

Chris90 commented: November 23, 2012, 8:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

exhaust clips on the web are nearly useless.

I had a Viggen and a VW CC, both sounded good. My F30 has no intake but exhaust sounds great...no more timid sound stock.

I drove a Viggen once back when they were new. If that's your standard then we're just disagreeing on degrees. VW GTI sounds nice, but again nowhere close to a BMW six.

335i with performance exhaust sounds awesome on the web, as good as a ZHP, imo, while the F30 sounds like a turbo 4 with an exhaust. Sounds nice compared to a Camry, but not compared to a ZHP.

av98 commented: November 23, 2012, 9:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

So I have an F30 Luxury line with the base suspension. I'm finding the body roll annoying and would like to firm things up a bit.

If I invest in some of these M Performance parts, will that keep my comfortable suspension and tighten up the body roll or will this in effect turn my car into a Sport line model with a very harsh suspension?

I guess there are now 4 non-adaptive suspensions. Can you or anyone else please clarify what the feeling differences are in regards to handling and body roll?

We assume that the standard suspension is the softest. But is it? Is the XDrive suspension softer than the Standard? The M Performance suspension firmer than the Sport suspension? Would be helpful to know what the baseline differences are between the suspensions. Ultimately I'd like to talk things out, but don't want to make a mistake. My E90 M Sport was way too harsh, I really like the F30 suspension but it could be a bit tighter.

BJ

Your best upgrade would be the sport/m-sport thicker anti-roll bars. Best way to eliminate body roll while keeping your stock suspension.

If you want less rebound/bounce then stiffer M perf shocks/struts are the way to go. It will also settle the suspension faster after taking a bump to allow the driver better steering control.

With stiffer and lowered springs that should add to less rebound/bounce along with a lower center of gravity to allow better rotation and response from the chassis. It will also decrease chassis flex by a minimal amount.

Jamesonsviggen commented: November 23, 2012, 10:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90

I drove a Viggen once back when they were new. If that's your standard then we're just disagreeing on degrees. VW GTI sounds nice, but again nowhere close to a BMW six.

335i with performance exhaust sounds awesome on the web, as good as a ZHP, imo, while the F30 sounds like a turbo 4 with an exhaust. Sounds nice compared to a Camry, but not compared to a ZHP.

You don't seem to be listening. I said I modify my cars. My Viggen and Cc were modified. The Viggen had 20psi with enlarged intake/intercooler piping and full 3". CC was Apr tuned with intake and Borla catback and downpipe.

I am glad you drove a Viggen stock. News flash, it was terrible. I spent money to make it less so, ending up with one of the better examples in the country. I went as far as putting in a fully built transmission with a LSD, full adjustable suspension and lots of bracing. It also made 340lbft of tq to the wheels.

I have a BMW in-line 6. I do not need to be told that it sounds good. Mine has Turner headers, a Supersprint catback and 13+lbs of boost. It's great. It doesn't mean that DIFFERENT sounds cannot be pleasing as well.

boltjaM3s commented: November 23, 2012, 10:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by av98

Your best upgrade would be the sport/m-sport thicker anti-roll bars. Best way to eliminate body roll while keeping your stock suspension.

If you want less rebound/bounce then stiffer M perf shocks/struts are the way to go. It will also settle the suspension faster after taking a bump to allow the driver better steering control.

With stiffer and lowered springs that should add to less rebound/bounce along with a lower center of gravity to allow better rotation and response from the chassis. It will also decrease chassis flex by a minimal amount.

Perfect, thanks. I'll look into the thicker M-Sport anti-roll bars. Must I go with a BMW solution or are there aftermarket anti-roll bars that'll achieve the same result?

BJ

SergioK commented: November 23, 2012, 10:46 pm

I am sure that by next year many aftermarket tuners will have various sway bars out for the F30. If you can wait I'd suggest to see what Dinan has for the offering. Their stuff is usually top notch.

boltjaM3s commented: November 24, 2012, 12:07 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergioK

I am sure that by next year many aftermarket tuners will have various sway bars out for the F30. If you can wait I'd suggest to see what Dinan has for the offering. Their stuff is usually top notch.

Thanks. I can wait until Spring as winter's here and spirited driving doesn't reoccur until April or May around here.

BJ

av98 commented: November 24, 2012, 12:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergioK

I am sure that by next year many aftermarket tuners will have various sway bars out for the F30. If you can wait I'd suggest to see what Dinan has for the offering. Their stuff is usually top notch.

+1, I'd use what best fits your needs and model. Start with the diameter of the swaybars to determine how stiff or non-existent the body roll you want. For the E46, the best and easiest to install swaybars, were from Hotchkis so that's who I went with.

Wait and see who the best aftermarket adjustable swaybars would be. If you can't wait, get a ride on a Sport/M-Sport to feel if the improvement is worth the upgrade.

Chris90 commented: November 24, 2012, 7:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

You don't seem to be listening. I said I modify my cars. My Viggen and Cc were modified. The Viggen had 20psi with enlarged intake/intercooler piping and full 3". CC was Apr tuned with intake and Borla catback and downpipe.

I am glad you drove a Viggen stock. News flash, it was terrible. I spent money to make it less so, ending up with one of the better examples in the country. I went as far as putting in a fully built transmission with a LSD, full adjustable suspension and lots of bracing. It also made 340lbft of tq to the wheels.

I have a BMW in-line 6. I do not need to be told that it sounds good. Mine has Turner headers, a Supersprint catback and 13+lbs of boost. It's great. It doesn't mean that DIFFERENT sounds cannot be pleasing as well.

Yeah, the Viggen was a POS, I didn't want to diss on your car though. Bracing would probably help a lot, it was a rattly jiggly thing even brand new. Beautiful car though, inside and out. I've heard lots of tuned turbo fours, they can sound loud, aggressive, sporty or race-car like, but not really pleasant, at least to my ears, like an inline six.

Take the turbo inline six in the Polestar S60, now that sounds incredible.

Yeah, the Viggen was a POS, I didn't want to diss on your car though. Bracing would probably help a lot, it was a rattly jiggly thing even brand new. Beautiful car though, inside and out. I've heard lots of tuned turbo fours, they can sound loud, aggressive, sporty or race-car like, but not really pleasant, at least to my ears, like an inline six.

Take the turbo inline six in the Polestar S60, now that sounds incredible.

As a former ZHP owner I think it is really hard to come close to the special magic of the old ZHP. I still regret selling mine. IMHO the best way to get an F30 close to the ZHP is to buy a 335i with standard m sport suspension and 6MT. Start with that and see how it feels. It has been a while since I owned my ZHP, but, from what I can remember, the feel is similar. I would try this before I changed out any suspension bits as you might find that change not necessary. Agree with you on getting the PSS tires.

As a former e46 ZHP owner, my biggest regret is parting with that car. It did almost everything right. The e90 and F30 cannot compare in any setup. The 335i may be faster straightline and they may even do a track time that's seconds faster but that e46 felt special from the moment you turned the key. There's no sense of special with the 335i (in either e90 or F30 form).

Ronin951 commented: January 2, 2013, 9:50 am

Though I've only done a spirited test drive of the F30 Sport, I comfortably ordered an F30 M-spec 6MT. Sport would suffice too...I just don't like the current lineup of colors. I remember (barely) what my ZHP was like stock and the F30 beats it. Yes the steering ratio is a little less, but nothing dramatic IMO. People should remember what a difference just tires and sways make, which are probably the first upgrade ZHP owners make.

The F30 has a lot of potential and the aftermarket will address any of the major concerns.

av98 commented: January 3, 2013, 11:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin951

Though I've only done a spirited test drive of the F30 Sport, I comfortably ordered an F30 M-spec 6MT. Sport would suffice too...I just don't like the current lineup of colors. I remember (barely) what my ZHP was like stock and the F30 beats it. Yes the steering ratio is a little less, but nothing dramatic IMO. People should remember what a difference just tires and sways make, which are probably the first upgrade ZHP owners make.

The F30 has a lot of potential and the aftermarket will address any of the major concerns.

I agree on the sways but the ZHP came with Michelin PS2s which were and are still some of the best tires in the industry. Unless you go R compound they don't have much better tire upgrade options.

Sadly the new F30s don't ship with the RFT PS2s due to the low treadware so you will be upgrading on these newer models.

Ronin951 commented: January 4, 2013, 4:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by av98

I agree on the sways but the ZHP came with Michelin PS2s which were and are still some of the best tires in the industry. Unless you go R compound they don't have much better tire upgrade options.

Sadly the new F30s don't ship with the RFT PS2s due to the low treadware so you will be upgrading on these newer models.

Funny you say that. I replaced what I had with PS2's. I bought mine a couple years old with 15k on the odometer. I guess the dealer put some POS tires on before selling.

I actually ordered my F30 with all-seasons. The sales guy kinda looked at me funny, then i told him i would replace them anyways in the spring so I might as well get a winter set for "free".

Instead, I would start with a Eibach lowering kit - I had excellent experience with their products (H&R is too aggressive in my taste). About 1000$ with parts, installation and realignment. All recent BMW needs a lowering kit, IMO. Their wheel gap is awful.

If I had a 328i, I would definitely find an aftermarket exhaust, *any* aftermarket exhaust. This would be just for fixing my mistake of not getting the 335i at the first place. If a 335i, the stock one is fine. Another 1300$,http://www.modbargains.com/BMW-Perfo...ust-System.htm

Given the reported brake distances, I would like better brakes, but not for 2000$.

Better tires, why not. Once the original are worn.

However, that nasty front bumper is not gone yet, one of the top reasons to get a M-Sport.

Jamesonsviggen commented: January 4, 2013, 6:33 pm

Brakes are lacking due to pads and tires. MSport pads are better. The rest of the f30 brake hardware is up to snuff. The crappy mag numbers are from the low rolling resistance tires and low dust pads. MSport pads give bite but trade low dust for tons of dust.

LegendsNeverDie commented: January 4, 2013, 6:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by brkf

As a former e46 ZHP owner, my biggest regret is parting with that car. It did almost everything right. The e90 and F30 cannot compare in any setup. The 335i may be faster straightline and they may even do a track time that's seconds faster but that e46 felt special from the moment you turned the key. There's no sense of special with the 335i (in either e90 or F30 form).

This X 1000. Every time I see one on the road (which is not very frequent) I regret not being more patient and getting one over my current car. If BMW made that car today new with warranty I would take one over the 335 E90 or F30 anyday.

Chris90 commented: January 4, 2013, 6:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

This X 1000. Every time I see one on the road (which is not very frequent) I regret not being more patient and getting one over my current car. If BMW made that car today new with warranty I would take one over the 335 E90 or F30 anyday.

It's also a curse. I like cars, but every time I want to buy one, I'm like "well, the ZHP is perfect, I should probably keep it."

av98 commented: January 4, 2013, 6:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintor

x2.
It says "Front & Rear coil springs are not included in the kit."

Instead, I would start with a Eibach lowering kit - I had excellent experience with their products (H&R is too aggressive in my taste). About 1000$ with parts, installation and realignment. All recent BMW needs a lowering kit, IMO. Their wheel gap is awful.

If I had a 328i, I would definitely find an aftermarket exhaust, *any* aftermarket exhaust. This would be just for fixing my mistake of not getting the 335i at the first place. If a 335i, the stock one is fine. Another 1300$,http://www.modbargains.com/BMW-Perfo...ust-System.htm

Given the reported brake distances, I would like better brakes, but not for 2000$.

Better tires, why not. Once the original are worn.

However, that nasty front bumper is not gone yet, one of the top reasons to get a M-Sport.

Most people that think the ZHP is over-rated are the ones that have never owned it. But you are welcome to your own opinion.

As for the springs being seperate, there is a reason both the M performance suspension and springs are used together; because they are designed and tuned for each other. Check out the comments from early adapters from the F30 forum- http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...=766249&page=9

But go ahead and match what ever springs you want if you want to take a risk.

Don't care much for the exhaust note, imho, the stock 328i exhaust is fine. If you want to upgrade for the performance gain, then go for it; otherwise I don't think it's needed but a chip upgrade like the one from BMS is worth more.

Saintor commented: January 4, 2013, 6:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by av98

But go ahead and match what ever springs you want if you want to take a risk.

Despite people predicting bad things, I kept my original struts with my Eibach kit and in 75000 miles, never regretted it one minute.

Jamesonsviggen commented: January 4, 2013, 7:04 pm

I had eibachs on a variety of cars with a variety of struts. I was always happy. Only had a bad experience with H&Rs and Intrax(shop called them strut killers lol).

av98 commented: January 4, 2013, 7:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I had eibachs on a variety of cars with a variety of struts. I was always happy. Only had a bad experience with H&Rs and Intrax(shop called them strut killers lol).

I've had good experiences with Eibach, ST and Hotchkis springs too. I definitely don't trust Intrax or other low/no-name brands. H&R I've heard a mixed bag of feedback.

captainaudio commented: January 4, 2013, 7:59 pm

In the future any car I buy is going to be exactly what I want when I drive it off the dealer's lot.
I am not interested in re-engineering a suspension.
Been there, done that.

CA

kpgray commented: January 4, 2013, 8:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintor

x2.
Instead, I would start with a Eibach lowering kit - I had excellent experience with their products (H&R is too aggressive in my taste). About 1000$ with parts, installation and realignment. All recent BMW needs a lowering kit, IMO. Their wheel gap is awful.

If I had a 328i, I would definitely find an aftermarket exhaust, *any* aftermarket exhaust. This would be just for fixing my mistake of not getting the 335i at the first place. If a 335i, the stock one is fine. Another 1300$,http://www.modbargains.com/BMW-Perfo...ust-System.htm

Given the reported brake distances, I would like better brakes, but not for 2000$.

Better tires, why not. Once the original are worn.

I have also had success with Eibach lowering springs, less expensive then the Tein. I have coupled with Bilstein shocks and they are reasonably easy to install. I would think some urethane bushings on the sway bars would help but do not know if they would be avalible yet.

I have also had success with Eibach lowering springs, less expensive then the Tein. I have coupled with Bilstein shocks and they are reasonably easy to install. I would think some urethane bushings on the sway bars would help but do not know if they would be avalible yet.

With the Rogue Development Catback I ran we dyno'd a real gain of 6.5whp/20ftlbs on a load bearing Super Flo dyno. The catback will retail at or a bit under $1000.

The downpipe will net solid results but you are now running catless and will have a CEL unless you have something from BMS tune wise to get rid of the code. I am on the fence if I am going to do the downpipe. I did a catted downpipe on my 2.ot CC and when combined with the Borla catback it was a bit too much.

Alpine300ZHP commented: January 5, 2013, 7:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainaudio

In the future any car I buy is going to be exactly what I want when I drive it off the dealer's lot.
I am not interested in re-engineering a suspension.
Been there, done that.

CA

This. I don't do mods and I refuse to keep settling for lot cars that are not my desired spec. This is why I custom built the latest addition to the family. Exactly what I wanted. Nothing more or less.

pkim1079 commented: January 7, 2013, 3:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainaudio

In the future any car I buy is going to be exactly what I want when I drive it off the dealer's lot.
I am not interested in re-engineering a suspension.
Been there, done that.

CA

+1000.
My next car will be an m2 or m235i depending on if the m2 is ridiculously priced. Maybe a used 1m coupe.

dtc100 commented: January 7, 2013, 11:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainaudio

In the future any car I buy is going to be exactly what I want when I drive it off the dealer's lot.
I am not interested in re-engineering a suspension.
Been there, done that.

CA

Some of the performance parts can be ordered and installed at the port of entry, even residualized if leased.

Yeah, I am probably done with aftermarket mods also, but will consider install at the port.

Jamesonsviggen commented: January 7, 2013, 11:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkim1079

+1000.
My next car will be an m2 or m235i depending on if the m2 is ridiculously priced. Maybe a used 1m coupe.

1m Coupes are likely going to be silly $$$ in the future as they are often selling for around MSRP used now.

f30fan commented: July 27, 2013, 8:49 pm

This page is very useful, thanks. I got a base 328i and am thinking along similar lines.

However, I have a question: the base 328i comes with 17" tires. Is it good enough to replace the stock RTFs with Michelin 17"s (ignoring looks), or is a wheel size upgrade needed to get good handling?

Jamesonsviggen commented: July 27, 2013, 9:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by f30fan

This page is very useful, thanks. I got a base 328i and am thinking along similar lines.

However, I have a question: the base 328i comes with 17" tires. Is it good enough to replace the stock RTFs with Michelin 17"s (ignoring looks), or is a wheel size upgrade needed to get good handling?

17s will have a bit much sidewall. Lightweight 18's would be of more benefit.

f30fan commented: July 27, 2013, 9:19 pm

Thanks, James. I should have elaborated my question more.

I noticed, the Michelines that OP linked to has only a square setup in 17".

So is it better to (one of these):
a) Upgrade wheels + tyres (18 or 19" with Michelins?), keep stock suspension?
b) Upgrade suspension to m-performance, keep stock wheels + tyres
c) Upgrade nothing (meaning a or b without the other is not worth it - if that is true?)

I do understand a+b is the best ideally, but wondering which is the better tradeoff (especially for eliminating body roll and dive as much as possible) with limited $$.

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: July 27, 2013, 9:29 pm

I just said the exact same thing in another thread. M Performance parts completely transform the car, in a very big way. The car turns in sharper, holds corners tighter, and you feedback is given an overall boost as well. It becomes what the car should of been out of the factory.

Jamesonsviggen commented: July 27, 2013, 9:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by f30fan

Thanks, James. I should have elaborated my question more.

I noticed, the Michelines that OP linked to has only a square setup in 17".

So is it better to (one of these):
a) Upgrade wheels + tyres (18 or 19" with Michelins?), keep stock suspension?
b) Upgrade suspension to m-performance, keep stock wheels + tyres
c) Upgrade nothing (meaning a or b without the other is not worth it - if that is true?)

I do understand a+b is the best ideally, but wondering which is the better tradeoff (especially for eliminating body roll and dive as much as possible) with limited $$.

Tires/wheels are the biggest impact on performance. But not so much body roll, that requires suspension. But they kind of take advantage of one another.

f30fan commented: July 27, 2013, 9:44 pm

Thanks again. Just rolling these options around in my head. Love the process of thinking about car-related stuff and making decisions