Two lanes... two cars, one in each lane... both going in the same direction, then the ****** beside you decided that he/she wants to be in your lane and merges without even looking, indicating to give prior warning.. the ****** hits you and then complains...

Mmmm interesting... I'm learning to drive at the moment and my driving instructor said I have to wait, so I wait! If there is time for the car to go then that's great, if not its also just like when the pedestrian is crossing... you have to wait! Its the law!

If you got his licence plate and your feeling like getting even... give the driving school a call. Or even just call them in general and say, I'm aware that this isn't the law so could you please send out a note to all your instructors.

PART 4â€”MAKING TURNSDivision 1â€”Left turns at intersections<snip>27 Starting a left turn from a road (except a multi-laneroad)(1) A driver turning left at an intersection from a road(except a multi-lane road) must approach andenter the intersection from as near as practicableto the far left side of the road.

PART 11â€”KEEPING LEFT, OVERTAKING AND OTHERDRIVING RULES<snip>Division 4â€”Driving in marked lanes or lines of traffic<snip>147 Moving from one marked lane to another markedlane across a continuous line separating the lanesA driver on a multi-lane road must not move fromone marked lane to another marked lane bycrossing a continuous line separating the lanesunlessâ€”(a) the driver is avoiding an obstruction; or(b) the driver is obeying a traffic control deviceapplying to the first marked lane; or(c) the driver is permitted to drive in bothmarked lanes under another provision ofthese Rules; or(d) either of the marked lanes is a specialpurpose lane in which the driver is permittedto drive under these Rules and the driver ismoving to or from the special purpose lane.<snip>148 Giving way when moving from one marked lane orline of traffic to another marked lane or line oftraffic(1) A driver who is moving from one marked lane(whether or not the lane is ending) to anothermarked lane must give way to any vehicletravelling in the same direction as the driver in themarked lane to which the driver is moving.<snip>Division 6â€”Driving in marked lanes designated for specialpurposes153 Bicycle lanes(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must notdrive in a bicycle lane, unless the driver ispermitted to drive in the bicycle lane under thisrule or rule 158.<snip>158 Exceptions to driving in special purpose lanes etc.(1) The driver of any vehicle may drive for up to thepermitted distance in a bicycle lane, bus lane, tramlane, transit lane or truck lane if it is necessary forthe driver to drive in the laneâ€”(a) to enter or leave the road; or(b) to enter a part of the road of one kind from apart of the road of another kind (for example,moving to or from a service road, theshoulder of the road or an emergencystopping lane); or(c) to overtake a vehicle that is turning right, ormaking a U-turn from the centre of the road,and is giving a right change of directionsignal; or(d) to enter a marked lane, or part of the roadwhere there is room for a line of traffic(other than motor bikes, bicycles, motorisedwheelchairs or animals), from the side of theroad.<snip>(4) In this ruleâ€”permitted distance meansâ€”(a) for a bicycle lane or tram laneâ€”50 metres; or(b) for any other laneâ€”100 metres.

So in summary:Left turning vehicle must be as far to the left as possible. In this case this means in the bike lane which they can enter up to 50m from the turn. But in moving into the bike lane they must give way to anyone in that lane.

sn00py wrote:after which an RACV driving instructor shouted thru his car window at me that i should wait for the turning car to go across bike lane.

You're not allowed to try to overtake on the left of a left turning vehicle, which may be what he was referring to. I think basically if they're ahead of you and have stopped/slowed and are turning or about to turn, you're not allowed to go passed them on the left, but if they're coming up behind or beside you, they can't just turn left through you.

sn00py wrote:after which an RACV driving instructor shouted thru his car window at me that i should wait for the turning car to go across bike lane.

You're not allowed to try to overtake on the left of a left turning vehicle, which may be what he was referring to. I think basically if they're ahead of you and have stopped/slowed and are turning or about to turn, you're not allowed to go passed them on the left, but if they're coming up behind or beside you, they can't just turn left through you.

Says who? A car crossing a solid white line has to give way to all other traffic, and a bicycle is allowed to overtake on the left. And even if the bicycles didn't have the 'overtake on the left exception', the cycle lane makes it a multi-lane road and passing on the left becomes legal.

I'm pretty sure there are specific laws covering this situation - in Tas at least tho I believe Vic is essentially the same both having adopted the national road rules. IIRC, a bike lane doesn't count as a normal traffic lane per se and essentially whoever is in front has right-of-way. Something along the lines of it being illegal to overtake a vehicle on the left that is both turning and indicating left...

Happy to be corrected as I don't have time to look up the road rules - but that's what I took from it the last time I looked it up.

Yep, found that about five minutes after my post, added an 'Edit:' saying 'oops, I'll shut my mouth'... quoted the law, but then raised the q of how it applied to cycle lanes... but the edit has disappeared.

I think realistically, if a car is turning left through a bike lane ahead of you, they're usually going to move into the bike lane and then turn, so you'd hardly have any room to go to the left of them anyway. The one you need to watch out for is a car slowing and indicating left ahead of you, which hasn't moved into the bike lane yet, because they're probably about to go straight across it.

Since the penalty for breaking this law could easily read "3 penalty units, if you survive it", I'm pretty well inclined to obey it. That said, there is one ambiguous case where a car is stopped at a red light and is indicating left. I think you're allowed to pass there, as they're not actually turning, just indicating that they will turn. In that case I usually make sure the light's not about to change before passing them and stopping in front of them, a bit to the right of their car if possible.

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:I think realistically, if a car is turning left through a bike lane ahead of you, they're usually going to move into the bike lane and then turn, so you'd hardly have any room to go to the left of them anyway. The one you need to watch out for is a car slowing and indicating left ahead of you, which hasn't moved into the bike lane yet, because they're probably about to go straight across it.

Which is why I quoted Rule 27:A driver turning left at an intersection from a road (except a multi-lane road) must approach and enter the intersection from as near as practicable to the far left side of the road.

m@ wrote:I'm pretty sure there are specific laws covering this situation - in Tas at least tho I believe Vic is essentially the same both having adopted the national road rules. IIRC, a bike lane doesn't count as a normal traffic lane per se and essentially whoever is in front has right-of-way. Something along the lines of it being illegal to overtake a vehicle on the left that is both turning and indicating left...

Happy to be corrected as I don't have time to look up the road rules - but that's what I took from it the last time I looked it up.

i'm pretty sure i've read the same thing. it doesn't permit drivers to come 'over the top' of cyclists when turning left, but if they are ahead they are entitled to turn and if that means a cyclist who approaches from behind must slow and allow them to complete their turn, so be it.

I had to take a few driving lessons before taking my driving test in Germany, (long story), and the procedure they insist on there is that you quickly glance over your right shoulder before you turn right in case a bicycle or motorbike is travelling in your mirror's blind spot. I wish that all drivers had German driver's ed.

velocopedant wrote:I had to take a few driving lessons before taking my driving test in Germany, (long story), and the procedure they insist on there is that you quickly glance over your right shoulder before you turn right in case a bicycle or motorbike is travelling in your mirror's blind spot. I wish that all drivers had German driver's ed.

I just assume that the cars don't see me. I also assume that they don't know how to indicate or give way. I've only been caught out once, where a car in stopped traffic decided suddenly to turn into the driveway he was next to, even though the line of traffic had been stationary for some time. I managed to stop before I went into the side of the car... but I did slap the side of the car with my hand as I stopped, and the guy coming up behind me on the cycle lane took time out to yell abuse at the driver. Could have been nasty, I was travelling at about 35km/h when it happened.

velocopedant wrote:I had to take a few driving lessons before taking my driving test in Germany, (long story), and the procedure they insist on there is that you quickly glance over your right shoulder before you turn right in case a bicycle or motorbike is travelling in your mirror's blind spot. I wish that all drivers had German driver's ed.

I just assume that the cars don't see me. I also assume that they don't know how to indicate or give way. I've only been caught out once, where a car in stopped traffic decided suddenly to turn into the driveway he was next to, even though the line of traffic had been stationary for some time. I managed to stop before I went into the side of the car... but I did slap the side of the car with my hand as I stopped, and the guy coming up behind me on the cycle lane took time out to yell abuse at the driver. Could have been nasty, I was travelling at about 35km/h when it happened.

Well put fellers. Me old man used to clip me ear if I didn't head check on me Ls.Following the law aint what keeps yer breathing, if only 'cos trusting the law requires everyone to obey and trust it as well. Paranoia and constant scanning for "OH F**K" escape routes does. Always thank the doers of the decent, reinforce their good behaviour.

Shaun

...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.London Boy 29/12/2011

If a bike is going straight (in a bicycle lane) and a car is wanting to turn left across the bike lane- what happens?

Are there any definitive laws, or is it merely a case of:a) the car is sufficiently ahead to turn left and does so?b) the bike is sufficiently ahead and is allowed to proceed forward whilst the car waits to turn left?

When driving in the car, I have had cases where I have wanted to turn left with a bicycle in close proximity behind travelling in a bicycle lane. In both cases, I stopped to let the bicycle rider go straight past before I turned left.In one of these cases, the car behind me gave me a honk. In the second case, the car behind me stopped, but the car behind him rear-ended him.

I am interested as a beginner road cyclist and a motor vehicle driver. If someone could shed some light on the matter it would be appreciated.

If a bike is going straight (in a bicycle lane) and a car is wanting to turn left across the bike lane- what happens?

Are there any definitive laws, or is it merely a case of:a) the car is sufficiently ahead to turn left and does so?b) the bike is sufficiently ahead and is allowed to proceed forward whilst the car waits to turn left?

When driving in the car, I have had cases where I have wanted to turn left with a bicycle in close proximity behind travelling in a bicycle lane. In both cases, I stopped to let the bicycle rider go straight past before I turned left.In one of these cases, the car behind me gave me a honk. In the second case, the car behind me stopped, but the car behind him rear-ended him.

I am interested as a beginner road cyclist and a motor vehicle driver. If someone could shed some light on the matter it would be appreciated.

It is definitive - whomever is positioned behind the other must give way in these circumstances.

If the car is in front, then it is entitled to move into the bicycle lane (after Giving Way to the bicycle - and when it is within 50 metres of the intersection), in order to complete a turn and in this case, the cyclist must yield.

If the cyclist is abreast, or in front, the driver of the vehicle must yield and Give Way to the cyclist - slowing down and / or stopping as necessary.

Sometimes, unfortunately, it comes down to timing and I always try to err on the side of caution - as both driver and when cycling - in order not to bowl over, or be bowled over (as the case may be).

In Victoria - refer Road Rules (Vic) 1999 - s153 (bicycle lanes), s158 (exemptions to drive in bicycles lanes - 50 metre rule), s148 (Giving Way when merging / moving from one marked traffic lane / line of traffic to another - a Bicycle Lane is a designated 'Lane' under the Road Rules - see s153), s150 driving on / across a continuous white edge line.

swon38 - in your scenarios, you've acted reasonably and in the one case where a car collided into the rear of the one behind you - it is simple - that driver is at fault.

macca33 wrote:If the car is in front, then it is entitled to move into the bicycle lane (after Giving Way to the bicycle - and when it is within 50 metres of the intersection), in order to complete a turn and in this case, the cyclist must yield.

However if the driver of the car is ahead of the cyclist (just) but cannot change lanes and make the turn without conflicting with the cyclist (eg. forcing the cyclist to take urgent evasive action or collide with the car) then the driver must yield and give way - allow the cyclist to pass before changing lanes.

BTW, the road rules stipulate that drivers must make a left turn from as close to the left kerb as possible, so this immediately invalidates the left-hook approach.

macca33 wrote:If the car is in front, then it is entitled to move into the bicycle lane (after Giving Way to the bicycle - and when it is within 50 metres of the intersection), in order to complete a turn and in this case, the cyclist must yield.

However if the driver of the car is ahead of the cyclist (just) but cannot change lanes and make the turn without conflicting with the cyclist (eg. forcing the cyclist to take urgent evasive action or collide with the car) then the driver must yield and give way - allow the cyclist to pass before changing lanes.

BTW, the road rules stipulate that drivers must make a left turn from as close to the left kerb as possible, so this immediately invalidates the left-hook approach.

Guy at work came and asked me about this about a month back, he reckons he had heaps of time for his turn but the cyclist screamed abuse at him. From inside his luxo-barge landcruiser, I reckon the cyclist would have had to have been close to be heard.

My advice was : pretend the bicycle is a semi-trailer. If you don't have enough time to turn across the front of a semi safely, don't do it to a bicycle.

macca33 wrote:If the car is in front, then it is entitled to move into the bicycle lane (after Giving Way to the bicycle - and when it is within 50 metres of the intersection), in order to complete a turn and in this case, the cyclist must yield.

However if the driver of the car is ahead of the cyclist (just) but cannot change lanes and make the turn without conflicting with the cyclist (eg. forcing the cyclist to take urgent evasive action or collide with the car) then the driver must yield and give way - allow the cyclist to pass before changing lanes.

BTW, the road rules stipulate that drivers must make a left turn from as close to the left kerb as possible, so this immediately invalidates the left-hook approach.

Cheers for the replies. As mentioned, a bit of common sense (in addition to the law) is required.

Unfortunately, car drivers who have never ridden a rode bike before are most likely unaware of how much braking distance a road bike requires.

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