Mod Note - this new topic has been created from the Zipp Wheels Thread as it is now a different discussion.

AUbicycles wrote:For bikes I was in contact with a few Chinese suppliers but they quickly cease contact when I say 1) for review I am not buying the frames and 2) we want to cut a frame open. I am still keen though really needs proper lab testing to get the values which also costs money.

In regards to getting a chinnerallo.... I am sure there is at least 653 members here that are keen to find out more on these frames, we will all donate $1 , get the frame, do some test's and so fourth, make a vid on it all then cut the focker in half....But only the members that donated a dollar get a copy of the test vid. Then we can settle this once and for all.

Hi AUbicycles. I have read your post saying you would like to do an independent review of Chinese carbon wheels compared with Zipp and other Western brands. As a representative of Farsports, I am happy to supply you with a set of our wheels for free, to carry out such a test, which includes the cutting (and destruction) of the wheels.

The only conditions Farsports stipulate are that :- Zipp and at least two other quality Western brand names, are included in the comparison review. (i.e. Enve, Lightweight, HED, Reynolds, Easton, etc)- you provide full details of testing equipment and protocol, and points for comparison, for our approval, before we agree to provide the wheels.- bias not enter the comparison, such as carbon wheel brands that have a direct or indirect commercial relationship with BNA, via advertising or paid editorials/reviews.- the review is made publicly available on the BNA website, and there be no censorship bias of ensuing discussion on the forum, in the event Farsport wheels are shown to be better value or superior.

Farsports wrote:Hi AUbicycles. I have read your post saying you would like to do an independent review of Chinese carbon wheels compared with Zipp and other Western brands. As a representative of Farsports, I am happy to supply you with a set of our wheels for free, to carry out such a test, which includes the cutting (and destruction) of the wheels.

The only conditions Farsports stipulate are that :- Zipp and at least two other quality Western brand names, are included in the comparison review. (i.e. Enve, Lightweight, HED, Reynolds, Easton, etc)- you provide full details of testing equipment and protocol, and points for comparison, for our approval, before we agree to provide the wheels.- bias not enter the comparison, such as carbon wheel brands that have a direct or indirect commercial relationship with BNA, via advertising or paid editorials/reviews.- the review is made publicly available on the BNA website, and there be no censorship bias of ensuing discussion on the forum, in the event Farsport wheels are shown to be better value or superior.

Best to get a company like fairwheelbikes or a major German magazine to do this test, I don't know too many people with stiffness jigs or braking rigs if you wanted raw data, does BNA have anyone with a jig that would be suitable to test lateral stiffness? or a jig that can test how much heat the brake track can handle?

On a side note, there is a review of these wheels on another forum, is largely positive with a few issues of wet-weather braking. No raw data apart from real weight though...

Or we can use other formers... I sure others on this forum will have wheels made by Zipp, Reynolds, Enve. Problem is they might not be so happy for us to cut them up I might have access to a broken Zipp rim, if this is actually going to happen I'll see if I can get a hold of it

I hope I don't cause a rouse by saying this, but have you broken any custom wheels? Say something with more than 24 spokes? I'd like to see you break a 32 3x A23/Archetype/C2 laced to ELF/ORC or something similar... I've noticed a common trend with the wheel failures, low spoke counts!!

To be fair Mavic have improved their game over the last few years... the Ksyrium Elite I have on the rear has been on there solidly except races for over a year, one broken spoke yes... but it's done about 15,000 kms and a good 10 or so cyclo-cross races. That's pretty good in my book. Plus they are cheap as chips, I only break rears and I live 15kms from the factory so I like my warranty chances on them. Plus half of those wheels I listed are Shimano.But lets get this right... although I spend a fair bit of money on cycling I am cautious as well. I know how I ride... I take risks, I ride on rough roads... more so I race on very rough roads sometimes and I don't really want a beautiful bike because chances are I might destroy it. I think if I had zipps etc I would spend more time worrying about breaking them than riding hard... I already felt that way with my C50's and they are a lot cheaper than zipps.Now if money was no object I would have a stable of zipps in my cave .

Farsports wrote:Hi AUbicycles. I have read your post saying you would like to do an independent review of Chinese carbon wheels compared with Zipp and other Western brands. As a representative of Farsports, I am happy to supply you with a set of our wheels for free, to carry out such a test, which includes the cutting (and destruction) of the wheels.

The only conditions Farsports stipulate are that :- Zipp and at least two other quality Western brand names, are included in the comparison review. (i.e. Enve, Lightweight, HED, Reynolds, Easton, etc)- you provide full details of testing equipment and protocol, and points for comparison, for our approval, before we agree to provide the wheels.- bias not enter the comparison, such as carbon wheel brands that have a direct or indirect commercial relationship with BNA, via advertising or paid editorials/reviews.- the review is made publicly available on the BNA website, and there be no censorship bias of ensuing discussion on the forum, in the event Farsport wheels are shown to be better value or superior.

I emailed a few days and will continue discussion per email (of course through a representative). It involves planning and committment by other brands.

I suppose it would be even better if Farsports answered customer emails. I have sent two emails regarding pricing etc to them and received no reply after a week.

Not a good start . . .

cheersGlenn

-----------"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever" Lance Armstrong

Ross wrote:Farsports have put a generous offer on the table but I'm not sure how many other brands like Enve or Zipp are going to be that generous. I guess Chris can only ask. Worst they can say is no.

The kind of testing required for it to have any credible results does not come free. If it does then good luck to you because you have good friends or you have something they want

So they want to donate a set of wheels, given the retail on them I can only assume they can pump them out fairly cheaply. Well cheaply when compared to a wheel that is built in Australia or the US for example.

So for the cost of producing a wheelset they get testing, advertising and an association with established premium brands. [it would be worth it just for the last one, even if they came last in every field.]

The way I see it if farsport think their wheels are good value/superior product then they should foot the bill for the testing. This includes buying the wheelsets you want in the comparison. And then publishing the results without moderation, if it is shown that farsports make an inferior product.

Baldy wrote:The way I see it if farsport think their wheels are good value/superior product then they should foot the bill for the testing.

Considering the number of BNA members who have bought Farsport wheelsets and discussed them at length in the last 12 mths, you might also expect Chris to do an interview with Farsports, similar in length to that with Zipp, or that suggested with TWE.

Think of the service Chris would be doing BNA forum members in affirming the stereotype of inferior R&D and quality control standards of Chinese wheel manufacturers.

Personally, I look forward to a TWE, Velocity, or even Pro-Lite interview, and outing where they source their rims, and revealing original wind tunnel and associated tests.

Baldy wrote:...The way I see it if farsport think their wheels are good value/superior product then they should foot the bill for the testing. This includes buying the wheelsets you want in the comparison. And then publishing the results without moderation, if it is shown that farsports make an inferior product....

I would not trust such a test's results, no matter which manufacturer ran it.

Why would Zipp, Enve etc bother to offer up a set of wheels on a local forum for DT and NDT when Farsports have never said 'our wheels are lighter, stronger, more aero efficient etc'.Zipp et al have their target audience, Farsport I'm sure have theirs. Zipp gain nothing by destroying a set of their wheels to prove they are better than a $400 pair of Chinese made wheels (that isn't slate on FS, it's a matter of fact).

Even more to the point, Whats happened to good ol' alloy? Pro-Lite Bracciano, Kinlin XR-270 custom build are in this price bracket too, two proven options... not to mention Fulcrum racing 3's, Mavic Ksyrium Elite, Shimano RS80... I'm sure if you give me the time I'll be able to make an endless list of proven alloy wheels at this price point

Suggestion for AUbikes, instead of comparing these to Zipps/Enves, why don't we compare them to other wheels inside this price bracket (or both )? That'll make a much "evener" test IMO

usernameforme wrote:Even more to the point, Whats happened to good ol' alloy? Pro-Lite Bracciano, Kinlin XR-270 custom build are in this price bracket too, two proven options... not to mention Fulcrum racing 3's, Mavic Ksyrium Elite, Shimano RS80... I'm sure if you give me the time I'll be able to make an endless list of proven alloy wheels at this price point

Suggestion for AUbikes, instead of comparing these to Zipps/Enves, why don't we compare them to other wheels inside this price bracket (or both )? That'll make a much "evener" test IMO