Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again! Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated. The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!

What I could pick up from "who said the alibi played for the Sloots..."is that Steve by alibing NH was dropped off at the hotel was to alibi someone else....This would probbly alibi a lot of people as well as himself if NH returned to the hotel including Freddy who may have been in the other car. Now since Steve and GCV were friends, perhaps he along with everyone else was mainly alibiing Geofrey Cromvroit and himself by making sure everyone knew she was back at her hotel and not out where any of them had prevented her return. That is how I read this, even though the question mark makes the reading more difficult. That was pretty slick. Jack b

The elder had one or two cards up his sleeveThey have been played and lostWill one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm DirtyHand is the key He walks with the elders He walks in all houses And he walked with the fallen elder he was the hidden card that was played now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

JUNE 5--A technology billionaire was a drug fiend who trafficked in cocaine, Ecstasy, and methamphetamine, spiked the drinks of business associates and employees, hired prostitutes for himself and others, and maintained several narcotics dens, including one in an underground lair at his Los Angeles mansion, prosecutors charge. In a remarkable federal indictment unsealed today in Los Angeles, Broadcom co-founder Henry T. Nicholas III is portrayed as an out-of-control wild man who scored drug caches for Super Bowl parties and rock festivals and had his dealer invoice him for these illicit purchases. A copy of the felony drug conspiracy indictment against Nicholas, who is reportedly worth about $2 billion, can be found below. The 48-year-old Nicholas, who was charged with securities fraud in a separate U.S. District Court case, allegedly "used threats of physical violence and death and payments of money to attempt to conceal his unlawful conduct," according to the indictment. Prosecutors allege that, in June 2002, Nicholas and Broadcom entered into a $1 million settlement agreement with an employee who was aware of the executive's "unlawful narcotics activity." The hefty payout, which Broadcom covered, contractually prevented the employee from speaking about Nicholas's drug abuse. The billionaire apparently did little to conceal his drug transactions. On one occasion, in the lobby of Broadcom's southern California headquarters, he directed an employee to provide cash to a courier "in exchange for an envelope containing controlled substances," the indictment charges. On a drug-fueled 2001 private plane flight--during which Nicholas allegedly used and distributed narcotics--the pilot was forced to don an oxygen mask due to the "marijuana smoke and fumes." According to a March 2008 Forbes story, Nicholas, with an estimated net worth of $1.8 billion, is ranked 677 on the list of the world's wealthiest individuals.

Ok.. so I take some heat for even trying to possibly connect the dots between the Shango reference to "Dirty Hand" and Jossy Mansur...

And I detect it did go above the heads of some... so sorry for that...

I really doubt that Shango was trying to "indict" Dirty Hand as being a bad guy... I never really felt that that assumption. But I do feel the argument does fit, hypothetically, of course...

Lala's -- i believe it is in the last Shango Thread that it was reported that the Mansur family owns over 50% of the entire island...

Jossy's position in his business as publisher of a newspaper puts him unique to learn all sorts of things -- some printable, some not.

it is easy to blame the US 4th estate (As Mas and others have done) for interfering in an investigation...

But what if a local 4th Estate in Aruba, for example, gets so close to things politically and economically that their hands become dirty just through association and "withheld information" and reporting.

It happens all over the world. But really, if one were to look over all that jossy's newspaper has been involved with since the beginning of this case -- it does make one wonder.

And what if Shango was in a position to know this. To know that the Aruban 4th Estate had the information and knew all along about what went on behind the scenes (whether it be a political back room or a history of wild drugged up sex assaults by island elite) -- then wouldn't Shango possibly reference such activity as a dirty hand?

Dirty Hand is a Methaphor -- Shango spoke in all sorts of metaphors ....

Clear back in 1840 Thomas Dequincy rote this:

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DeQuincy marks for us, it should be noted, an important philosophical difference, one drawing on a Kantian vocabulary implicitly tuned to such concepts as subjectively- and objectively-defined pursuits — that is, those drawn between ordinary common sense on the one hand, and modern science on the other: wherein a topic like "dirty hands" is considered metaphorically stylish in literature, but methodologically not in science. Although I admit it is a helpful distinction, I would add, too, it is indifferently spelled, in either case, "dirty hands" — and so may model, explicitly, like my italicized words, a slipperier, still more important truth.

My point turns on DeQuincy's common, but I think too-simplistic assumption that

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a man who has absolute facts to communicate from some branch of study external to himself . . . is careless of style; or at least he may be so . . . for what he has to communicate neither readily admits, nor much needs, any graces in the mode of communication; the matter transcends and oppresses the manner. The matter tells without any manner at all. -- http://www.yougotstyle.org/archives/000013.html

Could it be that Shango felt that Jossy (and others) was in a position to know eactly what went on and what was going on and by association with that knowledge alone made him an accessory (not in the sense of being criminal but in the ense of just knowing but choosing not to report it)?

I like Jossy -- but for me the jury is still out because of the immense power he and his family hold on this island of disinformation. He fits the model well if you go back and start to substitute his name for Dirty Hand in the Shango references.... try it... maybe I'm wrong, but it is the hisotry of the past which builds the foundation of the present and from what i can see the foundation is very weak. Too much bad stuff with the mansur family as a whole has been reported...

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If you tell a lie to enough people it becomes the truth - No way Glenda

The elder had one or two cards up his sleeveThey have been played and lostWill one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm "Jossy" is the key He walks with the elders (Newspaper publisher, reporter, political advisor)He walks in all houses (newspapers are read by and influence all, rich and poor)And he walked with the fallen elder (Croes -- because of his economic and political position had to have known him)he was the hidden card that was played now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation (If he publishes what he knows the world, as Aruba knows it will end)

Remember, the current economic situation in Aruba effects his pocketbook too...

Politically his hands may be tied because he still lacks the clout in their parliament to protect his interests if hell is unleashed in the form of public disclosure of all the corruption and cover-up. If you are an insider like Shango aludes to be you might feel that the 4th estate really does have "Dirty Hands".

The population of Aruba and island size is way to small ... Everyone knows everyone else and has something on everyone else -- but few are in the position to really report the truth to the masses and the world...

Yes, if Jossy were to sing Aruba would be shut down...IMHO

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If you tell a lie to enough people it becomes the truth - No way Glenda

The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government.

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If you tell a lie to enough people it becomes the truth - No way Glenda

The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government.

I had to chuckle when I read that Oduber had people protesting with Boycott Diario signs in 1991, when he didn't like what Jossy was writing in his paper about him and his party!

In the way of background, on October 5, 2005, Jossy Mansur, the editor of the Diario newspaper, opined that the racial problems in investigation of missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway, were between the Dutch and the Arubans. See 1 -- "The principal suspect is Dutch, the lead investigator was Dutch, the prosecutor is Dutch and the five judges involved are Dutch. If you think about it, an attempted boycott against Aruba is unjust, because it is misdirected and won't achieve the desired results."

Jossy Mansur is considered the godfather of the Arubanese Volks Partij (AVP).

All of you have heard this all before -- but really, just go back and look at the Dirty Hand references from Shango and visualize he is talking about Jossy and his family -- put into context the information which already exists...

from the same page:

Quote

Update [hat tip - George( comments below)] : For confirmation that the Mansur clan has dirty hands in drug trafficking, money laundering and worse, look at their connections to terrorism, such as with Hezbollah:

(...) According to El Espectador, Mohamed Ali Farhad has been linked to a money laundering investigation that involved the Aruba-based Mansur clan of Eric and Alexander Mansur, who controlled cigarette smuggling in the 1990s through the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company N.V., with its main offices in the Netherlands Antilles. 120 The Mansurs inherited a smuggling and drug trafficking empire established in the islands by the Cosa Nostra's Cuntrera-Caruana clan, when it began to work in Venezuela with Cali Cartel organizations.

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Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section.

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

Unmade ManChris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

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On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

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Goon Over Miami, Part 3If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him