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FenixMarco has really good circumstantial evidence regarding Sabo's survival. Now, regarding Sabo not helping rescue Ace. There are many logical explanations for that. If you come to think about it, even Dragon didn't make any move to rescue his own son. Either that will compromise their operation or their location is just too far from Marine headquarters. Dragon even left his son for the sake of the revolution. I think Sabo was under the command not to make any moves in rescuing Ace. Imagine if he got caught while at marine headquarter, that world government would be able to extract valuable information from him about the revolutionary army. For the revolutionaries, their cause must come first above anything else. I think Dragon set an example by leaving his son. I can imagine Sabo's heart being crushed and weeping as he sees ace died on TV.

Also, Dragon and Sabo led different lives, in the Flashback Arc, Sabo was shown to basically hate his real family then became brothers with Ace/Luffy. To say he'd follow anyones example is pure speculation, again I don't see "many logical explanations for that".

And about Dragon not showing up to help Luffy at MF - He probably didn't expect Luffy to be able to get there.. I mean sure in real life it has been almost a decade since Dragon saw Luffy off at Loguetown, however in One Piece time its only been a few months - maybe a year tops (this is before timeskip).

I will agree with you saying FM has good circumstantial evidence, however its not good enough to sit there and say its undeniable proof of anything.

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i believe he is alive. nothing is clearly portrayed in the manga as death or survival. but more often in a story it something isn't clear then u cant count it as anything/ especially death.also sabo being part of the RA is plausible but oda could make this more interesting if he end up miraculously being part of Big Mum pirates crew.

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by cross777

peace has come to manga share again that is what happened.

Originally Posted by Hand Banana

Thats right! I'm never wrong. And even when I'm wrong I'm never wrong.

Originally Posted by thsv

Thread closed.
Anyone else starting a thread on this same subject better do their homework or else...... .

Originally Posted by Gregge

Shape of a penis. It is inevitable, and just gives us the answer we already knew

^ I don't know what Sabo is doing or where he is at right now he could be with Dragon still or not doing his own thing. Just proving he was rescued by Dragon.

Originally Posted by Airicks

The world knew about Ace's execution, and of course the revolutionaries weren't there, it had nothing to do with them as a whole, however it did have something to do with Sabo, and unless the news was hidden from him, he should/would had been there trying to save Ace.

Again your point is mute, already countered it last post. He either didn't know about until it happen or couldn't do anything about it. Luffy the main character of story couldn't do it why would some random character we know nothing about be able to do it? Your missing the basics of how Oda setting this up, he obviously didn't want to introduce him that way and probably has reasons for it.

Originally Posted by Airicks

Pure speculation, theres no Hard evidence Dragon picked up Sabo other then a page where someone on Dragons ship needed first aid. Like i said, it would justify the premise if Sabo is alive, but as of now there isnt enough evidence to say its "undeniable proof"

So you honestly believe that Eiichiro Oda that author who likes to make his readers focused on certain parts of his manga (as himself said in the SBS) drew that whole page just for pure speculation. So he can highlight the revolutionary Dragon and his crew save a no named random person in the story. When that very same day a important NAMED character in the story got blasted by a Noble. That same NAMED character in the story had a break down in front of revolutionary Dragon. That scene made Dragon save the slum people as well. Can't be anymore obvious than that.

Originally Posted by Airicks

lol The page is not entirely about patching someone up - theres only 1 text box about it, In my opinion it has more to do with Zoro's Dojo, perhaps showing Dragons influence.

Never said it had anything to do with Zoro or his Dojo just saying that's the island they are at.

Originally Posted by Airicks

also, I never said it was a random person or bluejam - I have no idea who they were patching up... I can see where your coming from, as a theory its good but you shouldn't say its "undeniable proof".

It's undeniable proof there is no one else it could be. So do tell me than if ain't Sabo who you think it is? Exactly point proven.

Originally Posted by Airicks

My main problem here is when the ship exploded it was morning, the picture with Dragons ship is night time. so as least several hours had passed, its unlikely they wouldn't had done something about his wounds sooner. As I said, there could be other reasons Oda drew that page.. hell look at the last 5-6 chapters.. Oda dedicated entire pages to Sanji's nosebleeds.

A day span time is nothing in One Piece, it's characters lose imaginable litters of blood and still survive. Luffy vs Croc, Zoro vs Kuma, Sanji vs mermaids are examples of that. You pretty much answered your own question, they probably treated him right away but it's still not enough hence why Ivan is spazzing out about it in that page. What other reason is it that Oda drew that page that's relevant to the "Day the Nobles arrived?" see the simple point again? Not to hard to miss.

Originally Posted by Airicks

If it turns out like Sabo is alive and Dragon rescued him I wouldn't be overly surprised (provided he had a hell of a reason not to be there fighting for Ace), just I find it unlikely.

So your main reason is for Sabo not being alive is why he didn't fight for Ace? That isn't even legit, that character wasn't even part of the story yet. See how it makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Airicks

I think a key part of the Flashback Arc was to show where Luffy was at now with Ace dead.. Luffy was the last brother to set sail and is last brother alive he basically has to win in order for their "pact" to have meaning. (the pact they made about being big pirates)

Naw key part was definitely introducing the character Sabo, the brotherhood part was already sealed when Ace and Luffy thought Sabo died. That's not how the Flash back ended either.

Originally Posted by Airicks

Also, Dragon and Sabo led different lives, in the Flashback Arc, Sabo was shown to basically hate his real family then became brothers with Ace/Luffy. To say he'd follow anyones example is pure speculation, again I don't see "many logical explanations for that".

"Dragon and Sabo led different lives", well no sh*t! The Revolutionary Dragon's life compared to Sabo a child rough playing through the jungle. Sabo could possibly lead his on life after the Dragon rescue him but if you can't see the logical explanations for it I'll help you with that. Sabo emotionally broken down by what his real family did as well as the rest of nobles. Nearly losing all hope at this moment....

Spoiler!

Get's answered by Dragon, Dragon as well acknowledges what he has to say and listens to him. Dragon saves the people from the slum and recruits them into his Army/crew later after that scene.

Spoiler!

Dragon saves the people from the slums.

Originally Posted by Airicks

And about Dragon not showing up to help Luffy at MF - He probably didn't expect Luffy to be able to get there.. I mean sure in real life it has been almost a decade since Dragon saw Luffy off at Loguetown, however in One Piece time its only been a few months - maybe a year tops (this is before timeskip).

Garp understands Luffy's potential as shown when Luffy left water 7 escaping him. Why wouldn't his own father would? The only thing Dragon was surprised about was that he didn't expect Ivan-san to meet up with him. Like he wasn't phazed by the war at all. By the time Dragon realized Luffy was in the war chances are he wouldn't had made it in time. Luffy was unexpected surprised remember.

Originally Posted by Airicks

I will agree with you saying FM has good circumstantial evidence, however its not good enough to sit there and say its undeniable proof of anything.

Here's the thing Airicks your actually trying counter it with speculations if you didn't notice. What if's, why didn't he do this, this could had happen! I'm actually using actual manga material.

Those still in doubt, reread the Sabo Flash back like your investigating it or something, it's not to hard to miss. You also might catch some tid bits on Dragon that I thought were interesting but not enough to speculate on.

yea that that post was alot...I don't want to type every reply, if you have Skype or something similar we can talk about it. I will give a response to the few I think needed it most.

Originally Posted by FenixMarco

"So your main reason is for Sabo not being alive is why he didn't fight for Ace? That isn't even legit, that character wasn't even part of the story yet. See how it makes no sense."

This is one of my main reasons, I see the point "well Sabo wasn't introduced yet" however I feel Oda (who basically know how the story will play out) would had introduced him before the war, then had him show up like a champ, instead of giving a lame excuse 2 years after Ace died of why Sabo couldn't make it.

Originally Posted by FenixMarco

"Naw key part was definitely introducing the character Sabo, the brotherhood part was already sealed when Ace and Luffy thought Sabo died. That's not how the Flash back ended either."

You are correct, introducing Sabo was a key part, him dieing was a key part aswell, as I said, it added in showing where Luffy was at now with Ace dead. It showed Luffy being the last of the brothers to set sail, and the last to be alive.
Also, I know the FLashback didn't end with a pact, I think they made it when Luffy became Sabo/Aces brother.

Originally Posted by FenixMarco

"Here's the thing Airicks your actually trying counter it with speculations if you didn't notice. What if's, why didn't he do this, this could had happen! I'm actually using actual manga material.

Those still in doubt, reread the Sabo Flash back like your investigating it or something, it's not to hard to miss. You also might catch some tid bits on Dragon that I thought were interesting but not enough to speculate on. "

Your using manga material and over expanding what the pages say in order to justify your theory.

If you don't see we are both "speculating" then theres no point in this debate. actually, its not even a debate since I'm not saying anything is impossible, just that it hasn't been shown to be "undeniable proof".

EDIT:

Originally Posted by daz bonez

okay FM..you have solid arguments and opinions..all the flaws have been said by Alricks...besides explosion cannot kill a manga character, look at pell and mirajane ^....

Ugh.. I don't know why people always get the name wrong.. lol, its not 'AIL'RICKS, its 'AIR'ICKS, with a 'I' and not a 'L' ( and yes I did rip it off Trigun - for those Trigun fans )

And, also, yes it would seem explosions have a hard time killing OP characters.. we need more stairs dammit.

Last edited by Airicks; 03-13-2011 at 08:14 AM.

Click to see what RPG personality you are.(It's funny because I ALWAYS use a bow if its available in a game lol)

This is one of my main reasons, I see the point "well Sabo wasn't introduced yet" however I feel Oda (who basically know how the story will play out) would had introduced him before the war, then had him show up like a champ, instead of giving a lame excuse 2 years after Ace died of why Sabo couldn't make it.

These are your faults, you say you see the logical reason he wasn't introduced yet but assume/feel Oda would had introduced him before the war. Your not even logically countering the facts with this. He obviously didn't do it before the war but after the war, so wouldn't your statement make more sense throwing the Oda has this story played out on what we got so far. Instead of reasons why it "didn't" happen this way. How you know it's going be a lame excuse? How you know it's going to be a excuse in the first place? If you don't like the facts leading to it doesn't mean it won't happen. Take Mihawk training Zoro for example.

Originally Posted by Airicks

Your using manga material and over expanding what the pages say in order to justify your theory.

Explain to me my over expanding, I have only stated the facts we've been given during that arc. Only over expanding I said is some speculations of what/where Sabo is doing now. But everything I said about proving his survival is legit and straight to the point.

Originally Posted by Airicks

If you don't see we are both "speculating" then theres no point in this debate. actually, its not even a debate since I'm not saying anything is impossible, just that it hasn't been shown to be "undeniable proof".

Yes I understand you realize it's possible. Just nothing been confirmed yet right? Just here to point out the obvious. Your speculating, I'm not. Your giving me what if's, maybe's, I'm actually tossing manga facts at the wall that are actually sticking since they happen.

Do you really think he drew that whole Flash Back highlighting this character just to have him dead so vaguely. Drawing us that page that pretty much is like a big neon sign telling us he ain't dead!

eh, ok buddy. heres the deal, the fact Sabo hasn't been clearly shown to be alive makes this whole thread about speculation, believing something a whole lot (like how you believe he's alive) doesn't make it inherently true.

I think you want him to be alive so much your not seeing anything other then what you want to. Now I'm sure your gonna reply saying like "but im not speculating! these are facts! why can't you seee!" .

But the fact is, they aren't facts, using 1 page were Dragon talks about kids, and another were they had to patch someone up hardly justifies it, For Example, I could post 2-3 pages of Usopp being cool/manly/tough - does that mean he's a tough character? its the same thing, your using 2 pages that had nothing to do with each other and trying to say they prove something that they don't even really hint to (unless you make the pieces fit yourself by speculating).

You can reply saying w/e, get the last word its not that great. Obviously your not trying to see anything other then what you want to, so this is a waste of my time. Also when you do reply, don't break up the paragraphs, I typed it so you have to read all 3 to get the point - If you broke them up I'm, sure you could give a witty response however it really wouldn't answer anything aside your ego.

Click to see what RPG personality you are.(It's funny because I ALWAYS use a bow if its available in a game lol)

eh, ok buddy. heres the deal, the fact Sabo hasn't been clearly shown to be alive makes this whole thread about speculation, believing something a whole lot (like how you believe he's alive) doesn't make it inherently true.

It's not believing when you got facts leading to the only possible outcome. In the end I already know this is the final counter and only argument you can use against this. "It's not confirmed." It's on the same lines as Luffy becoming the Pirate king. He's going to do it, but it's not confirmed yet so it's speculation than?

Originally Posted by Airicks

I think you want him to be alive so much your not seeing anything other then what you want to. Now I'm sure your gonna reply saying like "but im not speculating! these are facts! why can't you seee!" .

Sabo never struck me as a interesting character, I'm not clinging to childish ideas like that. I'm just stating the obvious, I didn't just read the Flash Back once and came to this, read it several times just like the war arc. As you can see it's not half a** statement uses the literally elements the author put into it. All his evidence, hints, overall story wise logical reasons as well as it's limits.

Originally Posted by Airicks

But the fact is, they aren't facts, using 1 page were Dragon talks about kids, and another were they had to patch someone up hardly justifies it, For Example, I could post 2-3 pages of Usopp being cool/manly/tough - does that mean he's a tough character? its the same thing, your using 2 pages that had nothing to do with each other and trying to say they prove something that they don't even really hint to (unless you make the pieces fit yourself by speculating).

If your just ignoring the facts this is pointless. It seems I'll have to break the whole arc down for you on my first post than. You pretty much blindly just said that those pages had no significant to the story. Your Usopp example is irrelevant as well to this subject. Your comparing a favoritism post to a post that's discussing actual events that accorded in the story. If your confusing this thread with that, again this isn't about highlighting the character Sabo in that way. It's strictly to show he survived.

Originally Posted by Airicks

You can reply saying w/e, get the last word its not that great. Obviously your not trying to see anything other then what you want to, so this is a waste of my time.

Should probably consider your own advice.

Originally Posted by Airicks

Also when you do reply, don't break up the paragraphs, I typed it so you have to read all 3 to get the point - If you broke them up I'm, sure you could give a witty response however it really wouldn't answer anything aside your ego.

So far you haven't given me any manga materiel to disprove this and you yet don't realize why? Because it's obvious he survived, there's no other loop holes around this that answer who else could they be treating besides Sabo. There's no point for drawing those page besides that. Unless you believe Oda wants his readers to speculate on Zoro and his dojo. But why when he clearly himself states it in the narrator voice/chat box "On the night of the Nobles arrived" the very same day Sabo was said to have died. You yourself are missing the points, since your clinging on to the is not confirmed yet ideal. If that's how you want your proof so be it, but I wouldn't do that for the most part look at what happen with chapter 597.