Received a message from Ebay entitled "Help end unfair business practices"
"Please sign our petition"
It goes on to say how Ebay was set up to help people trade easily with each other,but,that is now being threatened by big manufacturers refusing to let their products be sold on an auction site.Ebay see it as unfair and unjust.
What they don`t seem to see is the unfair business practices Ebay use like refusing to let you list something unless you offer Paypal.
When they take the Paypal rule away I`ll consider their petition.

Mark.

oldtiffie

07-07-2009, 06:58 AM

Mark.

I might be missing something here.

How can any manufacturer stop an owner of one of the manufacturers products from selling that product to whom-ever he likes, how-ever he likes - including selling it on eBay?

Has the manufacturer got that much or any control and if so - how much control - and how?

Is this a specific case or is it a general case?

Can this be some sort of scam or wind-up that someone other than eBay has sent you?

I'd have thought that eBay would have explained all that so that people could make an informed decision about whether to sign the document or not.

Most petitions here require your name, address and phone number.

If it were me I certainly would not rush into it.

SteveF

07-07-2009, 07:18 AM

Mark.
Has the manufacturer got that much or any control and if so - how much control - and how?

Well I can tell you one case. Saitek, who makes gaming controls, refuses to honor their warranty if their product is sold on eBay. I bought a set of rudder controls, brand new, from a eBay retailer. After a week the electronic board failed. Saitek refused to honor the warranty because it was sold on eBay and said they will not honor if sold through an Amazon retailer as well. Retailer refunded my money and is battling it out with Saitek.

Steve.

Mark McGrath

07-07-2009, 07:47 AM

Tiff,
we`re talking here about businesses that are marketing someone elses product on Ebay,and yes,manufacturers have always had that power.I remember a high profile case in UK when one of the ice cream manufacturers refused to supply shops who sold under rrp.

john hobdeclipe

07-07-2009, 08:48 AM

I never got any such message from eBay.

I think it's a scam...a phish email to try to get your personal info. Consign it to the digital incinerator.

Peter N

07-07-2009, 08:55 AM

Mark I’m completely with you on this. Hyper-hypocritical Ebay can take a running jump as far as I’m concerned.

Tiffie, it’s covered under Article 7 of the Trade Mark Directive under European Law, and further reinforced by a European Court of Justice ruling in the ‘Silhouette v Hartlauer’ case.
Essentially the ruling says that a Brand owner creates and promotes that Brand and is entitled to control the Brand image. If it is sold with a certain positioning in that market, as a ‘luxury’ brand for instance, then selling via outlets like e-bay or discount stores is wholly inconsistent with the Brand image created, and the manufacturer can then take steps like this to protect their Brand.

John, here's the full text of the e-mail from Ebay:

FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT TO BUY AND SELL ONLINE - Sign Our Petition

eBay was built on a simple idea - that we could empower people by building a global trading platform where practically anyone could buy or sell practically anything.
But that idea is now under threat from certain brand owners and manufacturers who are trying to turn back the clock and block the sale of their products on online marketplaces and other websites across the EU.
Ultimately, what is at stake is the right of sellers to compete fairly in the wider online marketplace, and the right of buyers to be able to access the best possible deals from the widest possible selection of goods.

Some of these brand owners argue that their objective is to prevent the sale of counterfeits on eBay.
But thanks to our work with 31,000 other rights owners, only 0.15% of listings last year were detected or reported as potentially counterfeit.
The real aim of these brands is to block the sale of all their products on
our site - regardless of whether such items are new or second-hand, genuine or fake.
It's not just luxury items that are affected, but also everyday items like children's toys, electronic equipment, lawnmowers and pushchairs. And if we want to prevent other brand owners from following suit, we need to act now.
We are therefore calling on European policymakers to amend EU competition law to stop these unfair
trade practices. But we need your help to persuade them to take action. If you would like to join our
campaign against online trade barriers, please sign our petition.
Regards,
Your eBay Team

gnm109

07-07-2009, 09:34 AM

I understand that the C. F. Marin Guitar Co. of Nazareth, PA won't honor a warranty on guitars sold other than from an authorized dealer. That includes eBay, Craig's list, Amazon, Wal-Mart and the like. I don't see how you could make them provide a warranty when they have warned everyone publiclly about this prohibition.

The bottom line for me is that I really don't care what is or is not sold on eBay. Additionally, the language of the petition is very uncharacteristic for eBay. It doesn't sound as if it came from them.

.

andy_b

07-07-2009, 09:53 AM

i agree with John, i never received such an email. fleabay is a huge international corporation. those online petitions are a big joke that don't accomplish anything, so i see no reason the 'bay would even attempt to promote such a thing. it sounds like a phishing scam to me and i would just delete the email.

if you believe it is real, log onto eBay the usual way and send their support team an email asking if the petition is real.

andy b.

andy_b

07-07-2009, 10:01 AM

I understand that the C. F. Marin Guitar Co. of Nazareth, PA won't honor a warranty on guitars sold other than from an authorized dealer.

i know where that place is! :)

andy b.

JCHannum

07-07-2009, 10:03 AM

Any message from eBay, or any other site with a clickable link is suspect as phishing and should be checked before responding. Simply forward it to spoof@eBay.com. They will inform you if it is legitimate or not.

radkins

07-07-2009, 10:13 AM

That has got to be a scam! Fellows THINK about it for a second, if E-Bay decided to take action like that you would not have to learn about it through an E-mail from them! Everybody who deals with E-Bay would have gotten the same E-mail at about the same time and it would have been well covered by the news services before the E-mail even arrived. They would try to use the courts anyway instead of a petition, think about it. This is a SCAM!!

John Stevenson

07-07-2009, 10:16 AM

It's not a scam message as it's in your message box inside Ebay and not just as an email.

radkins

07-07-2009, 10:27 AM

Common sense should tell you this is a scam of some sort, one person (here so far) gets an E-Mail from E-Bay about this so-called petition and nothing on the news services about it? Would a company as big as E-Bay even attempt to petition for something like this anyway? Get real! :rolleyes:

John Stevenson

07-07-2009, 10:28 AM

Open ebay, log on and read your messages...................

.

radkins

07-07-2009, 10:37 AM

Open ebay, log on and read your messages...................

.

OK, I just did and there is nothing there about it but if it turns up there then it obviously would be real. I was under the impression that the OP got this as a regular E-Mail and not an E-Bay message?

To the OP, which was it? It if is in your E-Bay messages then it would have to be legit.

JCHannum

07-07-2009, 10:39 AM

Open ebay, log on and read your messages...................

That or forward the mail. It might be legit, but only being circulated in Europe, not in the US. It still sounds like phishing to me as it seems to be an e-mail and is asking you to sign a petition, not to contact your local politicos.

gfphoto

07-07-2009, 10:44 AM

Open ebay, log on and read your messages...................

.

Did that. Nothing.

I often get phishing messages from ebay and PayPal. They all have a link that I'm supposed to go to and enter some information. As was said, I forward them to spoof@ebay.com or spoof@paypal.com

As to the other issue, I consider an ebay purchase the same as buying from a neighbor and just don't expect warranty coverage. With Amazon it depends - you have to check carefully.

Gary

bborr01

07-07-2009, 10:44 AM

I just logged into Ebay. No messages. Maybe this is something that is geographic in nature.
Brian

andy_b

07-07-2009, 10:46 AM

same here. i just checked my eBay account and there are no messages. if it DID arrive as a message in eBay's message center, than maybe it is a non-U.S. thing. i still say it's a scam.

andy b.

radkins

07-07-2009, 10:46 AM

OK I think I have it figured out, I googled "Ebay petition" and there is such a thing from E-Bay concerning the UK and it apparently has nothing to do with anywhere else. Something like that here would probably have drowned out all the Michael Jackson BS on the news right now! :rolleyes:

Evan

07-07-2009, 10:57 AM

Unfair and even illegal business practises are common.

For example, In my computer store business I would repair printers, ink jet and laser. One one occasion a customer brought me an expensive large format HP ink jet printer to repair. It needed several parts including the ribbon cable to the carriage print head socket. HP has an on line parts locater system called PartsFinder. I looked up the parts I needed but when I attempted to retrieve the part number for the cable in the exploded view it told me "Part not available". That was odd since I had never run into this before. The one thing different was that this was shortly after the "merger" with Compaq.

However, the web site designer outsmarted himself as the name of the image of the cable was the part number. Armed with the part number I proceeded to telephone the parts order line. When I asked to order that part I was in turn asked if I was an authorized HP service centre. I replied that I was not but that it was my business to repair such equipment. I was told that they would only sell certain parts to authorized service centres.

I said goodbye and double checked the appropriate parts of the Canadian Competition Act which regulates business practises. In particular, it specifically prohibits selective dealing in repair parts sales. If a company sells repair parts to any business that isn't an owned subsidiary of the company itself then it is bound to sell at the same time to any and all comers that are in the same business and at the same price. It may charge a higher price to the general public but if I present a federal business number then they must sell it to me at the going price as for their own repair dealers. They may not legally refuse to deal with me.

I called back and when they refused to sell me the part I calmly explained that the law required they sell it to me. This produced some consternation and a long series of "please hold while I transfer your call..."

I eventually ended up, after about an hour, talking to someone in the legal department. I explained that it was illegal for them to protect their authorized repair centres in this manner. This produced a very long "please hold...". When they came back on the line they explained that they had just discovered that they could indeed sell me the part if I called the nearest repair centre and gave a special dealer code that they would supply me on this one occasion.

I thanked them for their trouble and explained in return that I would no longer be servicing any HP products in Williams Lake and as I was the only business doing so it would then mean that they would no longer have any local service in Williams lake, authorized or not, and that their customers would have a three hour drive to the nearest authorized centre.

lazlo

07-07-2009, 12:45 PM

When I asked to order that part I was in turn asked if I was an authorized HP service centre. I replied that I was not but that it was my business to repair such equipment. I was told that they would only sell certain parts to authorized service centres.

Yeah, that's Carly's legacy. She turned a proud engineering firm into a consumer print cartridge company. There should be a special place in Hell...

I had a job offer from the VLSI Technology Center in Fort Collins, where HP designed their PA-RISC, and later the McKinley, microprocessors. My Wife and I loved the area, but even then (2001), it was pretty clear that Carly was going to divest all the engineering work, and focus on ink cartridge sales.

That's also about the time that HP started "chipping" their ink cartridges, so they thoughtfully shut down the printer when HP has decided that it's time for you to buy new ink (instead of when the cartridge is actually empty).

Mark McGrath

07-07-2009, 03:40 PM

I`ve been thinking about it and it definitely comes from Ebay Europe which is headquartered in Switzerland.
I would think that American law probably prohibits the manufacturers from doing things they can get away with in Europe,so,it`s probable the Ebay.com members will never see it.

Evan

07-07-2009, 03:56 PM

Yeah, that's Carly's legacy. She turned a proud engineering firm into a consumer print cartridge company. There should be a special place in Hell...

On top of all that to become an authorized service centre requires taking a "course" a week long in Toronto. You pay all your expenses AND a $10,000 fee to HP for the privilege.

Xerox had a just barely legal way of doing the same thing. Part numbers are NOT usually printed on the part, just a special code. To order a part on the public order line you must be able to supply the part number even though the person taking the order probably has it memorized for all the common parts. They will not look it up for you and if you don't have it they will offer to sell you a manual for only $100.

Lexmark, on the other hand will do anything they can to expedite your order. I can be on the phone for no more than 5 minutes with only a vague description of the part and they will take the order, find the part, process payment and ship it for free via overnight courier.

SDL

07-07-2009, 04:01 PM

I`ve been thinking about it and it definitely comes from Ebay Europe which is headquartered in Switzerland.
I would think that American law probably prohibits the manufacturers from doing things they can get away with in Europe,so,it`s probable the Ebay.com members will never see it.

Thats why wrangler and Levi Jeans cost £40 ($64) in the UK and the same ones in Wallmart are $15-20 (£10-12.50) which is why whenever I go to the states i go into wallmart as much as some on here hate them.

Steve Larner

gnm109

07-07-2009, 04:25 PM

Since only one person received that email, it's probably a scam now that I think about it.

RKW

07-07-2009, 04:33 PM

Interesting. If it is real, I'm not sure I feel sorry for them. Especially since they are making it more difficult for the little guy (at least here in the USA) and catering towards larger businesses. Seems like in the UK (and elsewhere if we get this message as well) that it is the opposite situation. Although I rarely sell anything on ebay I was told this by a friend and have seen several posts about it since. Another thing to look at is where the link/URL for the petition takes you ... is it really still ebay, some survey company, or just an IP? Always look before you click and preferably use "NoScript" if you are using the FF browser.

Here are a couple of links that explains it all:
http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/01/31/top-10-frustrations-for-ebay-sellers

http://www.leavingfeedback.com/

CCWKen

07-07-2009, 04:55 PM

EBay lost it's suit last year. Is this part of an appeal? Or another suit in a different jurisdiction? The French court (I think it was) upheld the rights of companies to restrict sales to/by authorized dealers. The same thing happens here. You can't buy Ford parts at a Chevy dealer. You also can't buy Ford parts at AutoZone unless the part is licensed by Ford. Sure, you can buy remanufactured parts that fit Ford but they won't say Ford on them. I don't think EBay has a leg to stand on.

Peter N

07-07-2009, 05:03 PM

Since only one person received that email, it's probably a scam now that I think about it.

Go back and read the the other posts, it was sent to all UK ebay members.

The story is online as well:
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y09/m07/i07/s03

john hobdeclipe

07-07-2009, 05:09 PM

It sounds as if maybe this particular message is only being sent to UK registered eBay members.

Here in the US, we have a "My eBay" page that includes a message page. Any legitimate email from eBay shows up on this page, as well as in my email inbox. Any message that purports to be from eBay but doesn't show in the "My Messages" page is not real.

Do you folks in the UK have this same arrangement? It sounds like it, from what Sir John said. That would be the way to eliminate any doubt about the message.

Mark McGrath

07-07-2009, 05:21 PM

"It sounds as if maybe this particular message is only being sent to UK registered eBay members.

Here in the US, we have a "My eBay" page that includes a message page. Any legitimate email from eBay shows up on this page, as well as in my email inbox. Any message that purports to be from eBay but doesn't show in the "My Messages" page is not real.

Do you folks in the UK have this same arrangement? It sounds like it, from what Sir John said. That would be the way to eliminate any doubt about the message."

If you read the previous posts you will see that this came from my Ebay page.

danlb

07-07-2009, 05:35 PM

I agree that ebay probably has no legal way to make manufacturers allow sales on their site. Thus the idea to ask UK folks to work to change the law.

But on reflection, I think that all of us would revolt at the idea that Ford, BMW or Lotus should be able to tell us that we can not sell our used cars in the local paper.

I do not recall the result, but I do recall that last year a luxury products manufacturer brought suit against ebay to force them to detect and kill all auctions of their products, even for used ones. They claimed the products were all counterfeit. I think they eventually lost.

OK, now the message sounds Pro ebay, so I am required to state that ebay pays my bills, but that I do not speak for them in any way. I have no special insights nor information. I'm just a grunt. I do know that the employees are not evil. :)

Dan

Peter N

07-07-2009, 05:46 PM

Ebay lost the court case.
It was luxury goods manufacturer Hermes who took them to court.

SDL

07-07-2009, 06:07 PM

Since only one person received that email, it's probably a scam now that I think about it.

I've had the same e-mail in the UK as well.

Steve Larner

danlb

07-07-2009, 06:17 PM

Ebay lost the court case.
It was luxury goods manufacturer Hermes who took them to court.

It would be nice if there was only one view about what was allowed on the internet, but it's just not that way.

Dan

Allan Waterfall

07-07-2009, 07:13 PM

It's only a petition and doesn't really carry much weight. Maybe there should be a petition to stop Ebay freezing accounts and forcing people to use Paypal. Allan

Evan

07-07-2009, 07:27 PM

Maybe there should be a petition to stop Ebay freezing accounts and forcing people to use Paypal.

That is in the terms of service. If you don't like it you click "Do not agree".

gnm109

07-07-2009, 07:32 PM

It sounds as if maybe this particular message is only being sent to UK registered eBay members.

Here in the US, we have a "My eBay" page that includes a message page. Any legitimate email from eBay shows up on this page, as well as in my email inbox. Any message that purports to be from eBay but doesn't show in the "My Messages" page is not real.

Do you folks in the UK have this same arrangement? It sounds like it, from what Sir John said. That would be the way to eliminate any doubt about the message.

That's correct. It hasn't shown up in the "My eBay" page so it's not official in the U.S. in any case. It doesn't sound legitimate to me since eBay is not known for using petitions. It would be the first time that I can recall.

oldtiffie

07-07-2009, 07:58 PM

Back to the purported/supposed eBay email.

Nothing in my eBay "Messages" folder in my account.

Unless I am the odd one out in OZ and assuming that I'm typical, it appears that the genuine message - as seemingly on received in UK - does not apply to OZ (Australia).

There are some very heavy - and enforced - legislation here against cartels, Retail Price Maintenance, collusion and anti-competition pratices in the market-place.

A manufacturer, retailer or reseller of goods that are new can only advise the Recommended Retail Price (RRP) - but it rarely happens now. It has been turned on its head as many retailers use it as a marketing ploy to to show how much you "save" when buying at their advertised price/s as compared to RRP.

Selling fraudulent goods is banned if they are sold as "original" - ie stuff made in Asia and advertised as "original" - ie "pirated" goods. They are confiscated at Customs if caught coming in or Federal and State authorities once "in". Pirated CD/DVD and ""Designer" clothing from external and external (illegal) sources are similarly dealt with. The legislation is intended to preserve the product but not the margin.

Then, of course there is copyright law.

But despite all the opinions thus far, and in the absence of any applicable advice here to the contrary, it seems that the restrictions in place in the eBay sites in the UK/EU don't apply here - so far.

We have quite a number of current Free Trade Agreements that we have to comply with as well.

But again, back to topic, I can understand some genuine manufactures not liking the "Buy it now" stuff on eBay if the manufacuter has an "exclusive/rectricted" dealership/servive arrangements in place, but I'd have thought that would be limited only to jurisdictions where it was legally allowed and enforceable.

John Stevenson

07-07-2009, 08:25 PM

There is no need to send it to US or OZ Ebay users as they have no say in EU matters, only the UK and the EU part of Europe.

You know this is really hard work, there is a world outside of the US you know.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/ebay1.jpg

Just screen grabbed this and checked the Ebay link as being valid, it also came over as an email linking back to this page as well.

This isn't the link. it's the main Ebay page that has to be signed in, I entered it not clicked a link.

.

aboard_epsilon

07-07-2009, 08:29 PM

Ive not had the petition message .

all the best.markj

John Stevenson

07-07-2009, 08:41 PM

Only sent to rich people, poor people need not apply :rolleyes:

.

andy_b

07-09-2009, 03:35 PM

Yeah, that's Carly's legacy. She turned a proud engineering firm into a consumer print cartridge company. There should be a special place in Hell...

I had a job offer from the VLSI Technology Center in Fort Collins, where HP designed their PA-RISC, and later the McKinley, microprocessors. My Wife and I loved the area, but even then (2001), it was pretty clear that Carly was going to divest all the engineering work, and focus on ink cartridge sales.

That's also about the time that HP started "chipping" their ink cartridges, so they thoughtfully shut down the printer when HP has decided that it's time for you to buy new ink (instead of when the cartridge is actually empty).

don't you be talking smack about dear Carly! i had the pleasure or working for her and her mentor Rich McGinn. two idiots that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a technology company. i don't recall which is which, but one had a medieval history degree, and the other had a psychology degree. perfect candidates for the position of CEO.

andy b.

RKW

07-09-2009, 03:53 PM

I believe we worked for the same company then ...

I have one even better than actual degrees. One of our "previous" CEOs actually "participated" in a Harvard School of Business class. Read: "did not complete..."

Said so right on her resume. Now that is qualification of talent and ability if I ever heard it.

don't you be talking smack about dear Carly! i had the pleasure or working for her and her mentor Rich McGinn. two idiots that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a technology company. i don't recall which is which, but one had a medieval history degree, and the other had a psychology degree. perfect candidates for the position of CEO.

andy b.

Alistair Hosie

07-09-2009, 05:19 PM

This is complicated.I know some companies levi, or wrangler jeans was a good example.They levi or wrangler took Asda a large supermarket to court for selling their products too cheaply. Asda said it was doing so to help their customers, as levi wrangler were too expensive for ordinary folk ,Asda lost the argument went like this wrangler levi whichever I can't remember said that the fact was because that their products were so expensive that they the products were regarded by the customer Us as being as high level product and that to sell them cheaply would ruin the expensive brand image .Asda lost the case in court !!! the jeans manufacturer won.They would not supply their jeans to Asda but asda got them in bulk from the USA were they sold for a lot less than in the uk.Now why am I telling you this simple when you buy a product the warranty is not free it is included as part of the purchase price .Therefore if you buy them cheaper from somewhere not supplied by the manufacturer's consent or will, you may in fact be getting them cheaper but without manufacturers warranty as the manufacturers might argue that cheap meant without paying for warranty.Alistair ps hope this makes sense

aboard_epsilon

07-09-2009, 05:26 PM

Asda's now owned by wallmart

all the best.markj

Alistair Hosie

07-09-2009, 05:55 PM

I know mark but never the less this has nothing to do with the point I am making.regards Alistair

Timleech

07-09-2009, 05:59 PM

This is complicated.I know some companies levi, or wrangler jeans was a good example.They levi or wrangler took Asda a large supermarket to court for selling their products too cheaply. Asda said it was doing so to help their customers, as levi wrangler were too expensive for ordinary folk ,Asda lost the argument went like this wrangler levi whichever I can't remember said that the fact was because that their products were so expensive that they the products were regarded by the customer Us as being as high level product and that to sell them cheaply would ruin the expensive brand image .Asda lost the case in court !!! the jeans manufacturer won.They would not supply their jeans to Asda but asda got them in bulk from the USA were they sold for a lot less than in the uk.Now why am I telling you this simple when you buy a product the warranty is not free it is included as part of the purchase price .Therefore if you buy them cheaper from somewhere not supplied by the manufacturer's consent or will, you may in fact be getting them cheaper but without manufacturers warranty as the manufacturers might argue that cheap meant without paying for warranty.Alistair ps hope this makes sense

Dunno whether or not it makes any sense. I used to buy Wrangler jeans, haven't had any for donkeys' years.
Our washing machine packed up last week, & I had run out of working trousers fit to wear. Went to the local ASDA & bought two pairs of own brand jeans at £3 a pair (maybe $5), perfectly wearable jeans. Scarcely worth washing them at that price!
It begs all sorts of questions about how they manage to buy, import and sell them for that price but just then I wasn't complaining.
European law gives a basic warranty for all retail purchases anyway.

Tim

Mark McGrath

07-09-2009, 06:34 PM

This is complicated.They would not supply their jeans to Asda but asda got them in bulk from the USA were they sold for a lot less than in the uk.Now why am I telling you this simple when you buy a product the warranty is not free it is included as part of the purchase price .Therefore if you buy them cheaper from somewhere not supplied by the manufacturer's consent or will, you may in fact be getting them cheaper but without manufacturers warranty

That does not matter because in UK law your contract is with the retailer.Therefore what goes between Asda and the manufacturer is no concern to the customer.The retailer by law must sell you goods fit for the intended purpose.

aboard_epsilon

07-09-2009, 08:58 PM

There was once a big thing with wearing branded jeans ..501's and wranglers ..wernt proper jeans if they didn't have the above names on them in days gone by..

i think its died a death now ..them days are gone

it's a case of who the hell cares what brand of jeans your wearing to me ..or any other type of clothing .

if i can get them for £3 a pair i will buy them ..and don't care a hoot what's written on them..........or if they are womens jeans with the button on the wrong side.

all the best.markj

kendall

07-10-2009, 12:57 AM

Agree there Epsilon, I used to wear levi's exclusively.
Not for the name, but because they fit well and lasted forever, then they got to be the 'in thing' and price shot up, while quality seemed to go downhill. If you aren't looking for the name, there is no difference between levis and K-mart no-name jeans.
Still like the levi jackets because of the fit, and I like how the pocket liner makes another pocket inside that's great for keeping a pad and pen while leaving the real pockets open.

Ken.

oldtiffie

07-10-2009, 07:25 AM

The term "Fit for purpose" has been kicked around without defining what it is and what it mean and how it is applied within and by the EU. Here is a guide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Descriptions_Act_1968

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_assurance

These are pretty well aligned with how it is intended to be here in OZ.

Getting it legislated is one thing - applying it may well be another.

We have "implied warranties" here which over-ride any other warranty that falls short of the intent of the legislation.

"Fit for purpose" may not necessarily get the Trader on the hook, not might it prevent you being hooked instead.

There are rights and obligations on both parties.

All too often the buyer got it wrong and pretty well hooked himself. If that is the case he is stuck with the cost of his indiscretion.

Most of the warranties and advertising are very cleverly written and presented.

The customer is assumed to have made an informed decision in the absence of any proof that the trader was at fault.

I can't see the intent of the legislation being to protect the customer/buyer from himself.

I can't see the eBay petition coming to much of substance.

rancherbill

07-10-2009, 12:16 PM

Unfair and even illegal business practises are common.

I too had a Computer Repair Business. All manufacturers were a pain when they were the sole source.

I have been on both sides of the fence as a Manufacturer Rep and as a Independent Dealer. To summarize my opinion, depending on whether I have taken my meds :) , the Manufacturer / Authorized Dealer is right, or the Independent Dealer is right. It really is a complex issue.

What really irks me is the Grey Market stuff on eBay. It is all over the place. This thread is about manufacturers not honoring warranty and I think they are justified.

The price of the product as it leaves the manufacturer is made up of based on the costs of many different things. Specific deals are done large customers or international operations / customers that may have very specific terms and conditions. There are products sold by manufacturers without warranty or warranty that only kicks in above certain levels. This products leaves the original customer and re-enters the regular market via eBay. The buyer then tries to claim the warranty. He 'never paid for it'.

The manufacturer can't be held responsible for warranty on these things. I am surprised that the same thing has not happened on eBay US/CA.