Did you trust astrology?
If so share you experience on situation which based astrology in your life...

deanhills

I don't put much stock in astrology. I do believe their are astrologers however who do know their stuff, and they may be able to make predictions provided that they have very accurate details of your place, time and date of birth.

watersoul

nachi wrote:

Hi,

Did you trust astrology?
If so share you experience on situation which based astrology in your life...

I personally think it's just an exploitative crock and mostly useless rubbish, based on pretty much all my experiences in life so far.

Bikerman

I second that, based on a reasonable understanding of astronomy, the physics of orbits, and the possible effects of gravity or other fields at the distances concerned.
It is pure bunk.

deanhills

Bikerman wrote:

I second that, based on a reasonable understanding of astronomy, the physics of orbits, and the possible effects of gravity or other fields at the distances concerned.
It is pure bunk.

I would have thought that a reasonable understanding of astrology would also have been a prerequisite for debunking astrology? This is Carl Sagan's take on astrology:

Bikerman

deanhills wrote:

I would have thought that a reasonable understanding of astrology would also have been a prerequisite for debunking astrology?

Not really, since that implies there is something coherent to understand and there isn't. Oh, sure, I understand the bits that actually make some sense - conjunctions, alignments etc, because those occur in real planetary science, but much of the rest is gibberish which is incapable of being 'understood'.

Nameless

deanhills wrote:

I would have thought that a reasonable understanding of astrology would also have been a prerequisite for debunking astrology?

Let's take this argument to its logical conclusion:

The world is a duck chaos elephant and earthquakes predicts the quacks as itches flying golden for what blue what empty eyes are the volcanos, like potatoes but larger.

Now you're not allowed to call BS without fully deconstructing and explaining how my theory works first.

metalfreek

Anything that claims to predict future is not my thing. So, I don't believe in astrology.

Nameless

metalfreek wrote:

Anything that claims to predict future is not my thing. So, I don't believe in astrology.

You must have the weather man, huh.

deanhills

Nameless wrote:

Now you're not allowed to call BS without fully deconstructing and explaining how my theory works first.

Right, but then there is nothing sensible to start off with .... it has not been around for thousands of years, nor is it making billions of dollars ..... and Carl Sagan didn't mention it in his show .....

Ankhanu

Antiquity is not evidence of validity.

What valid tidbits astrology has to offer are only valid insofar as it offers generalized concepts that are widely (no, not universally, but widely) applicable... and it accepts a very low level of "hits" to accept the truth of the whole.
It's like accepting that you have good odds of winning (winning WHAT is immaterial) if you have (let's be generous) a 40% chance. It's not very accurate, but it does cover a fair number of instances, if the categories are broad enough.

I'm not simply referring to horoscope style astrology, but full birth chart analyses. These are not predictive, but explanatory in nature.

"yeah, that's like me... that? Not so much... oh, yeah, I definitely AM perceptive of others' needs and feelings... Yeah, I can be messy sometimes!!"

standready

Nameless wrote:

duck chaos elephant

That is a funny expression that I must use on some clucks I know. laugh

Back to topic: No, I don't believe in astrology. Never been right for this crab!

metalfreek

Nameless wrote:

metalfreek wrote:

Anything that claims to predict future is not my thing. So, I don't believe in astrology.

You must have the weather man, huh.

Assuming that you were trying to say hate weather man.

Weather forecasting is a science not some guess work based on star position or something. I do believe in weather forecast but not 100% because we are talking about very unpredictable "nature".

menino

In India, apart from some other nations, astrology is a big thing.
People base their livelihood on the astrological predictions ans signs, and these include marriages also.

For me, I know astrology works, but I prefer to live my life in a happy go lucky way. If something bad happens to me, I don't want to blame it on the stars and astrological predictions.

In a lot of places in India, Astrology is a science, and has been so for over 5000 years in India.
It is not just about predicting the future, but also the placement of the stars and constellations in the skies.

Bikerman

No. Astrology is NOT a science. Not in India and not anywhere else.
It is a good job my astronomer colleagues didn't hear that - you might have been faced with a crowd of angry scientists determined to see if they can make your Jupiter rise in Capricorn.

A science is a subject which uses the scientific method to investigate and explain phenomena. It consists of theories, which are tested rigorously with observational and experimental data and, if/when the theory breaks-down it is junked. Astrology, on the other hand, is a pseudo-science which pretends to make accurate predictions but actually makes general statements which are likely to be true to some extent for most people. It can be tested (and has been - it failed everytime), but astrologers are not interested in testing the accuracy of their predictions. It doesn't subject the theoretical underpinning to rigorrous testing and where a particular technique is shown to be wrong or inaccurate, the technique is still practiced and not, as science demands, modified or scrapped..

So, no, not in India, not in Europe, not ANYWHERE is Astrology a science.

Ankhanu

At best, it's a game of statistics.

goutha

I don't trust astrology!

It's like giving a gun to a blind man. He will shoot until hurting someone... this does not mean that a blind man can kill using a gun without seeing!

ocalhoun

metalfreek wrote:

Nameless wrote:

metalfreek wrote:

Anything that claims to predict future is not my thing. So, I don't believe in astrology.

You must have the weather man, huh.

Assuming that you were trying to say hate weather man.

Weather forecasting is a science not some guess work based on star position or something. I do believe in weather forecast but not 100% because we are talking about very unpredictable "nature".

Well, I don't know about your weather man, but around here, they seem to be right about as often as the astrologists.

goutha wrote:

I don't trust astrology!

It's like giving a gun to a blind man. He will shoot until hurting someone... this does not mean that a blind man can kill using a gun without seeing!

^.^
I imagine that a blind man could do pretty good by listening for the sounds people make, and then shooting at the sounds.

Nameless

ocalhoun wrote:

goutha wrote:

It's like giving a gun to a blind man. He will shoot until hurting someone... this does not mean that a blind man can kill using a gun without seeing!

^.^
I imagine that a blind man could do pretty good by listening for the sounds people make, and then shooting at the sounds.

CRAZED GUNMAN BLIND TO OLDEST TRICK IN BOOK
God was truly with the citizens of Xyztown last night, as an armed terrorist's rampage came to a fatality-free halt when a clergyman out shopping heroically confused the blind villain by throwing his bible into the distance. When the madman spun around to the incorrect source of sound, the clergyman tackled and disarmed him. Despite his successful maneuver saving the day, the clergyman was quoted almost immediately as laughing "no way that shouda even [sic] worked".

What were we even talking about again?

sudipbanerjee

I have no interest in Astrology. But in the beginning of the year 2006 one of my friend who has a huge interest in Astrology told me that the year becomes danger for me. I don't know whether it is coincidence or not but in 2006 I face tremendous problem in both of my Professional and Personal field. I almost lost my job and life. But I didn't take any preventive measure (Stone) according to him. Time becomes. I overcome my problem.

missdixy

No, I do not trust astrology. I don't feel my zodiac sign describes me very well at all, and so many of those predictions have been wrong for me. I agree with the notion that at best, astrology is a game of statistics.

wellerchap

Another "crutch" for the weak of mind to lean on....file in the same waste bin as tooth fairies, religion, superstition(?), the sand man (for the Americans) and Yeti.

Out of all the "fantasy" type characters/beliefs, there's only Father Christmas that's real.

So there.

Utopia GFR

Well, sometimes I trust astrology because some mentioned facts do happen when I consult the astrology corner of my daily newspaper.

Some stuff happened to be true regarding my professional career.

Unfortunately that did not apply to my love affairs *sigh*.

At some point, I was feeling curious enough to ask a soothsayer if he could predict my future (but I didn't)

nachi wrote:

Hi,

Did you trust astrology?
If so share you experience on situation which based astrology in your life...

Bikerman

Utopia GFR wrote:

Well, sometimes I trust astrology because some mentioned facts do happen when I consult the astrology corner of my daily newspaper.

Some stuff happened to be true regarding my professional career.

And here's the thing - if you take 100 people (of any star sign - it is completely irrelevant) and have them read your horoscope, you will (if the column is any good) find that about 60-75% of them will find 'strikingly accurate' predictions about their own life.
The 'art' of writing a horoscope is to make the most generally applicable statements using language that disguises them as specific. It relies on a couple of facts of human psychology - Confirmation bias. and a general lack of ability in judging and understanding probabilities and randomness, with the flip-side that we naturally look to spot patterns where they don't exist.

deanhills

Bikerman wrote:

The 'art' of writing a horoscope is to make the most generally applicable statements using language that disguises them as specific. It relies on a couple of facts of human psychology - Confirmation bias. and a general lack of ability in judging and understanding probabilities and randomness, with the flip-side that we naturally look to spot patterns where they don't exist.

This sounds a bit too complicated and brainy for your average horoscope person Bikerman. If it were true that they are as good as this, then looks as though there is at least a rational method in their "madness"?

ocalhoun

deanhills wrote:

Bikerman wrote:

The 'art' of writing a horoscope is to make the most generally applicable statements using language that disguises them as specific. It relies on a couple of facts of human psychology - Confirmation bias. and a general lack of ability in judging and understanding probabilities and randomness, with the flip-side that we naturally look to spot patterns where they don't exist.

This sounds a bit too complicated and brainy for your average horoscope person Bikerman. If it were true that they are as good as this, then looks as though there is at least a rational method in their "madness"?

Any good conman will have a rational method.
...That doesn't make it any smarter to believe him though.

That said, of course the horoscope must be vague and apply to many people...
Even if it is completely true, it must apply to 1/12th of the people reading the newspaper - who all lead very different lives.
^.^

Bikerman

It isn't difficult to do a reasonable job, but it is difficult to do a really good one. That normally requires some knowledge of the person, much practice in cold-reading and, often, some hidden researchers.

For example, here's a horoscope I've just created:

Your intuitive powers are working well today. Now might be the time to get your colleagues to see the weird business that has started to trickle-in from an unexpected source. Be careful that your spiritual side does not over-dominate your thinking tomorrow, since you will need to make some hard choices/decisions and you need to stay rational.
Your Karma will be particularly strong over the next few days, informing everything you do, so be sure to keep up with events.
A good deed tomorrow will result in happiness.

I'd guess that this should have a 60%+ hit rate for many people.

Nameless

That's pretty good, Bikerman, but I'd swap out 'colleagues' for 'friends' or 'family' just to make sure you don't alienate your hypothetical unemployed readers. Oh and, pro-tip: Don't encourage rational thinking in a horoscope. That's not going to end well.

metalfreek

ocalhoun wrote:

metalfreek wrote:

Nameless wrote:

metalfreek wrote:

Anything that claims to predict future is not my thing. So, I don't believe in astrology.

You must have the weather man, huh.

Assuming that you were trying to say hate weather man.

Weather forecasting is a science not some guess work based on star position or something. I do believe in weather forecast but not 100% because we are talking about very unpredictable "nature".

Well, I don't know about your weather man, but around here, they seem to be right about as often as the astrologists.

goutha wrote:

I don't trust astrology!

It's like giving a gun to a blind man. He will shoot until hurting someone... this does not mean that a blind man can kill using a gun without seeing!

^.^
I imagine that a blind man could do pretty good by listening for the sounds people make, and then shooting at the sounds.

Well weather man around my town are also as often correct as the astrologists but Meteorology is a science and so many degrees are awarded on this subject so I do believe in weather forecast but as you have said its just not that accurate.

day_and_night

i dont base any part of my life on astrology so there isnt anything about astrology to trust.

deanhills

I'm sure there must be software for writing horoscopes and that all of it can be automated. So if I wanted to write horoscopes, I would search for that software first. As of course, for a horoscope to work, there has to be an element of "astrology truth" in it, i.e. look up the position of the moon of a particular star sign on a given day. Apparently if it is a daily horoscope, horoscope writers look at the position of the moon relative to the star sign of that given day - that should be easy to do with software. If monthly, Horoscope writers look at Mercury, Venus, Mars and the Sun because these planets change every month or over the course of a couple of months. Yearly, Saturn and Jupiter because Jupiter will remain in a sign for one year and Saturn will remain in a sign for 2 to 2-1/2 years.

So if it looks as though it is not going to be a good day, perhaps all horoscope writers would need is to be creative in a general sense and figure out what can go wrong in a general sense. Like indecisiveness etc. etc. I'm almost certain that with horoscope writing software there would be a pull down menu of different scenarios that would fit how the star sign is interacting with the moon or any of the other planets.

Until a few years ago i used to just be baffled about how many people believe in astrology, nothing beyond my natural skepticism, but one of the comical truths Mr Douglas Adams left on "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" was about astrology, ok it was in that bad last book, but still i enjoyed and i'd like to share my joy and bliss (double rainbow all the way)

Quote:

"astrology's nothing to do with astronomy. It's just to do with people thinking about people."

or for a longer quote:

Quote:

From the Mostly Harmless:
-Tricia just looked bewildered.

"I know that astrology isn't a science,' said Gail. "Of course it isn't. It's just an arbitrary set of rules like chess or tennis or, what's that strange thing you British play?'

"Er, cricket? Self-loathing?"

"Parliamentary democracy. The rules just kind of got there. They don't make any kind of sense except in terms of themselves. But when you start to exercise those rules, all sorts of processes start to happen and you start to find out all sorts of stuff about people. In astrology the rules happen to be about stars and planets, but they could be about ducks and drakes for all the difference it would make. It's just a way of thinking about a problem which lets the shape of that problem begin to emerge. The more rules, the tinier the rules, the more arbitrary they are, the better. It's like throwing a handful of fine graphite dust on a piece of paper to see where the hidden indentations are. It lets you see the words that were written on the piece of paper above it that's now been taken away and hidden. The graphite's not important. It's just the means of revealing their indentations. So you see, astrology's nothing to do with astronomy. It's just to do with people thinking about people."

You can find this comment on astroengine, it's mine...

Utopia GFR

Could be even though it still remains "strange" to me why predicted events happen on a specific day.

I don't deny the importance of chance or any other kind of rational arguments, just wondering

Bikerman wrote:

Utopia GFR wrote:

Well, sometimes I trust astrology because some mentioned facts do happen when I consult the astrology corner of my daily newspaper.

Some stuff happened to be true regarding my professional career.

And here's the thing - if you take 100 people (of any star sign - it is completely irrelevant) and have them read your horoscope, you will (if the column is any good) find that about 60-75% of them will find 'strikingly accurate' predictions about their own life.
The 'art' of writing a horoscope is to make the most generally applicable statements using language that disguises them as specific. It relies on a couple of facts of human psychology - Confirmation bias. and a general lack of ability in judging and understanding probabilities and randomness, with the flip-side that we naturally look to spot patterns where they don't exist.

Bikerman

Utopia GFR wrote:

Could be even though it still remains "strange" to me why predicted events happen on a specific day.

I don't deny the importance of chance or any other kind of rational arguments, just wondering

Simple statistics.
Predict that someone will have good news, for example. Many people get some news during day which could be regarded as 'good'. The fact that they have been forewarned to look-out for it means that when it happens they immediately seize on it.
If your horoscope made a very detailed prediction then only a few people would find it true and the horoscope would loose readers. Hence the predictions are always pretty general and open to interpretation.
This is nothing new. Uri Geller (the slime-ball who pretends to be a mystic) used to appear on TV and he would predict in advance that many people would find that their watches and clocks stopped during the show. They did, and people rang the programme amazed and convinced that Geller had powers.
Just statistics in action. Watches and clocks stop all the time. A certain number will stop during a one hour period (the time the show ran for). With a sufficient number of viewers it is almost a certainty that some of them will have their watches/clocks stop.

deanhills

Utopia GFR wrote:

Could be even though it still remains "strange" to me why predicted events happen on a specific day.

I don't deny the importance of chance or any other kind of rational arguments, just wondering

It may have the appearance of being unique, as every star sign of course has its own unique horoscope reading. Also, every star sign would have its own unique prediction as they would connect it up with the general outlook for that star sign on that given day, by checking the moon as per my above posting. That is why I also think that it must be automated. And probably is. Would make sense. For example I see some recurring themes in some of the horoscopes of different star signs. That is why I think that there is a draw down menu of different options that match the moon reading. Following that the Horoscope "writer" just has to tweak a few sentences to really make it look authentic and "unique".

goutha

ocalhoun wrote:

goutha wrote:

I don't trust astrology!

It's like giving a gun to a blind man. He will shoot until hurting someone... this does not mean that a blind man can kill using a gun without seeing!

^.^
I imagine that a blind man could do pretty good by listening for the sounds people make, and then shooting at the sounds.

Goog point!!!

Ankhanu

deanhills wrote:

... Also, every star sign would have its own unique prediction as they would connect it up with the general outlook for that star sign on that given day, by checking the moon as per my above posting.

Nah, if you look at any given daily horoscope, they have virtually nothing specific to do with the star sign they get attached to. The "traits" drawn on are even more broad than you'd find in the descriptions of the various signs. Hell, I've even seen the same horoscope, word for word, published under different signs in different papers on different days
You can take someone of any sign, read them a horoscope for any other sign and it will be just as accurate.

deanhills wrote:

That is why I also think that it must be automated. And probably is. Would make sense. For example I see some recurring themes in some of the horoscopes of different star signs. That is why I think that there is a draw down menu of different options that match the moon reading. Following that the Horoscope "writer" just has to tweak a few sentences to really make it look authentic and "unique".

Most daily horoscopes are written by people, not software. These people are very good at what they do, even if what they do is ultimately meaningless. As with others in the entertainment business, the good ones are very well paid for their work.
There are similarities and themes, but they don't tend to be necessarily related to sun signs, so much as the author's biases. Those biases are sometimes attributed to sign, but not always. There's a lot of inconsistency to this sort of biasing, really.

Side note - I had an interest in astrology through my late teens and even into my 20s. I'm not just talking out my rear... not that that really says much

Side note 2 - I used to be in an improv comedy troupe; we played a game called... horoscopes. The rules are easy, you bring in some horoscopes, ask for a sun sign, and that horoscope forms the basis of the scene to be played. I've read a lot of horoscopes from many signs through time... it's interesting what you find

Well done! I'd have tended to put in year of birth as well. Just to give the person who put that information in the feeling that they are dealing with something that is genuinely astrology. Astrologers always ask for year of birth.

Really, if you're trying to decide if something is logical, then use your brain, not your heart.

deanhills

Heart to me is better than head. One needs at least a dose of heart to create wisdom out of logic and knowledge.

ocalhoun

deanhills wrote:

Heart to me is better than head. One needs at least a dose of heart to create wisdom out of logic and knowledge.

Yes, the heart is good and needed, but it doesn't know anything about logic.

If you want to know if something is logical or not, the heart will often lead you wrong - because it only cares about what feels right.

There are many things in life that logic is not sufficient for - and these are things you need to use your heart for.
There are other things in life that only logic can help with - and in those things, listening to your heart will often lead you astray.

Ankhanu

There is logic to astrology... doesn't make it truth, however. Logic can lead to incorrect conclusions.

_AVG_

Nope, I for one have never believed that it is nothing but superstition. When things go wrong, we blame astrology; when things go well, we thank astrology ... but in truth, we don't realize that our own actions affected whatever the outcome was.

Even if it were a science, I doubt it is very accurate today (it may have been lost and diluted over the centuries)

deanhills

ocalhoun wrote:

If you want to know if something is logical or not, the heart will often lead you wrong - because it only cares about what feels right.

Totally agreed when heart is interpreted along "emotional" lines. I was thinking more along empathy and compassion lines.

ratanegra

I have never believed in astrology. I don't find it trustable...

CheDragon

I don't believe in that stuff at all

sketteksalfa

Astrology is a waste of time. Their findings failed many times so why trust them. It must be consistent to get my trust.

airh3ad

When a woman involved with a virgo man and I understand precisely what you are saying.
Trust is a HUGE issue with virgos. They have a type of "guilty until proven innocent" attitude, which the typical leo, who is generally more open and trusting, finds difficult to comprehend.
It helps to understand the reason behind the lack of trust. Firstly, because virgos conceal so many of their own feelings and thoughts (as a protective measure), they assume that those around them also conceal truths about themselves, and these "truths" might be harmful or dangerous to the virgo. So what they do is hold back and watch, waiting to see what you reveal of your character over time. If they catch you out in any form of deception, or if you say anything that exposes a negative aspect of your character, then the virgo is out of there.

emanuel2

You have to be really dump to trust in astrology...

LostOverThere

airh3ad wrote:

When a woman involved with a virgo man and I understand precisely what you are saying.
Trust is a HUGE issue with virgos. They have a type of "guilty until proven innocent" attitude, which the typical leo, who is generally more open and trusting, finds difficult to comprehend.
It helps to understand the reason behind the lack of trust. Firstly, because virgos conceal so many of their own feelings and thoughts (as a protective measure), they assume that those around them also conceal truths about themselves, and these "truths" might be harmful or dangerous to the virgo. So what they do is hold back and watch, waiting to see what you reveal of your character over time. If they catch you out in any form of deception, or if you say anything that exposes a negative aspect of your character, then the virgo is out of there.

Out of curiosity, could you explain why you feel when a person is born would affect their personality?

achowles

I trust in astronomy. That's fairly close... in terms of spelling.

CheDragon

Not really, I think it is kind of psycologic

BigGeek

I've never trusted astrology, for some reason, whatever they predict for the day or month seems to be the opposite for me. It's insane I know! But I could go on for hours with examples, needless to say I think that most of it is just crap. Plus the way things are worded so many times is general and could apply to anything, or anyone. Changes are coming, and life lessons are to be learned. Things like that seem so vague and disappointing when you read them, like the lesson could be not to put sugar in your coffee, be on time to work. Real vague crap that can apply anywhere to anyone. Sometimes I think that the coincidences that people experiences with Astrology, predictions, and the such, is exactly that. A coincidence....

Navigator

There can be some truth there I think, but it largely depends on who is doing the "reading".

mk12327

I used to have a bit of trust in astrology a few years back. Till I realised that they are really general and made to lead the reader on. As in readers will tend to "look out" for certain things mentioned. Many things happen in our lives everyday. Just that most of these things we simply ignore and don't find them significant. But if we believe in what astrology says, we will be more observant to those things pointed out and have that "the astrology is right!" mentality. Bikerman raised a very good point about comfirmation bias, and I do agree with him.

On top of that, recently there is this "issue" about introducing a 13th horoscope. If you dig deep enough, you'll find how unreliable astrology is.

evilryu530

i do not trust astrology anymore. it's a waste of time. it's still a huge business though.

cybersa

I don't see any astrology news for my sign.
But it is 60 percent true.

deanhills

cybersa wrote:

I don't see any astrology news for my sign.
But it is 60 percent true.

So when does one know whether it is 60% true or 40% false?

mengshi200

So when does one know whether it is 60% true or 40% false?
-------------
I personally think things about astrology is complicted:1. how degree we know about astrology? different forcasting ability bring on different result.2.astrology obey bible.3.We can change astrology's forcast by our good acting.

Ankhanu

... What?? I couldn't follow that at all. Could you restate what you were trying to say?