It's been 21 months since the Nationals last boasted a five-game winning streak, that seven-game upswing to end the 2009 season with 59 victories. Tonight, they've got a chance to make it five in a row in mid-June, hoping to win another one against the Cardinals.

Livan Hernandez takes the mound for the Nats, hoping to bounce back from a rare off-night in San Diego. The big guy has struggled in recent years against St. Louis, posting a 7.13 ERA in his last three head-to-head encounters.

Livo will be opposed by right-hander Kyle McClellan (just activated off the DL today), who will face a lineup that again has Jayson Werth leading off and the pitcher batting eighth. Roger Bernadina is the No. 2 hitter this evening. Ian Desmond has the honor of batting ninth, behind Livo.

Anon 3:54…..did you just crawl out from under a rock or what? Riggleman has used this type of lineup for about 4 games now and the Nats have managed to win all 4. Given the players involved and using the pitcher to bat 8th, what lineup would you suggest he use?

I'm fine with this line up. Riggleman apparently wants to run for a while with Werth in lead-off and the pitcher batting eighth, and I don't see the harm in either. No, Werth isn't a proper lead-off hitter, but neither really is anyone else on the roster. Desi's low offense and OBP don't merit batting him near the top of the order.

This lineup is a great deal closer to the optimal sabermetrics lineup for this roster. Moving Desmond to bat ninth in front of Werth. Bernadina appears to be getting hot so perhaps that improves his "meh" .321 OBP. Its better than Desmond. Zimmerman, Nix, and Morse follow. It does look pretty good.

Werth as lead-off is silly. He was hired to hit 70 extra-baggers and knock in 90 runs. Desmond should hit second, Werth third, and Zimmerman fourth.Again, this is a sabermetrics-based lineup. With Desmond batting ninth instead of the pitcher he could find men on base for RBI opportunities. Plus because Werth is at the top of the order he gets the most at bats and the Nats can take advantage of his high OBP for the hitters that follow.It worked last night and before. He is seeing more situations with men on base. He is getting on base. He is getting every chance to earn the big pay check he received in the off season.What's wrong with that?

TimBatting someone other than the pitcher 9th increases the likelihood that Werth will come to the plate with someone on base, and he hasn't really demonstrated the power this year that would justify putting him in one of the more traditional slugging slots in the line-up.

C'mon Nats! Even the Pirates have a .500 winning pct. now!I'm thinking that this may be closer Hanrahan's one-and-only career type year.I'm hoping? that the Nats bats continue breaking out, like last night, and following up on those line drives that didn't drop in, out in Padre land.

HHover: Werth also has not had Zimmerman or a healthy LaRoche batting behind hims all season. Morse didn't hit for the first month of the season. With the much stronger line-up that the Nats have now, I would expect Werth's power numbers to improve.Anonymous: Mathematics is not baseball and Sabermetrics is baseball for dorks. Baseball is about men at a ballpark playing baseball, not some computer geek pounding a keyboard.

Also, Bernadina is a much better bunter than Desmond. Imagine a first inning where Werth gets on and then you can attempt to steal second and then bunt him over to third with one out, or you have Bernadina drag for a hit and move the runner, worse case you have Weth at second with 1 out and Zimmerman and Nix (would prefer Morse here as well) with opportunities to drive him in.

I don't need mathematics to tell me Morse is slugging better than Werth. But they are helpful because it's an objective way to measure player performance.The beauty of sabermetrics is the way it eliminates all the BS, hunches, "gut feelings" emotionalism and favortism. Those things are all great as fans to "manage" the team and pontificate on what we would or would not do in certain situations. But I'd like the people paid to create and run my team to use statistical evidence when making decisions and not playing favorites (Ankiel, Stairs, etc.)Computer geek or not, you can't deny the success the implementation of sabermetrics has had at the major league level WRT roster development. It only makes sense to extend that to lineups and game management.

I'm not a sabremetrics person but I respect it. I don't understand the difference between batting Werth 1 and Desmond 9 versus batting Desmond 1 and Werth 2, etc. with the pitcher in teh 9 spot. Why is it to the team's advantage to save a hitter until the 9 spot the first time around? It seems like after the first time through the lineup you pretty much have a regular batting order with a weak leadoff hitter. I'm not being facetious. Can someone explain or give a link? Thanks.

The advantage comes from having a decent hitter batting in front of the top of the lineup. If you stack your lineup sabermetrically, you'd have your best OBP guy leading off, and your all-around best hitter after him. The theory would be that Desmond could get on at a better rate than the pitcher, and do more on the base paths than the pitcher, which would set up the front of the lineup for RBI opportunities.The $1 Internet promotion is for seniors and is on nationals.com/specials

If you follow the link above, in addition to the special for seniors that I mentioned in an earlier thread, there is a kids' day special on June 23. It says that one can buy up to four $1 tix for kids aged 3-12 with the purchase of one full-priced adult ticket.

The other thing this odd order can do…not guaranteed, but since the Cards are my third team, I've been watching Tony play 'em this way for a while… is that the pitcher isn't a rally killing third out as often. I don't keep track and would not know how to verify my anecdotal evidence, but I know I've moaned a bunch of times about how "this time" we'd be so much better off if (any pitcher but Jayson) was in the 8th slot, instead of the 9th. And I don't think you treat Jayson like any old pitcher, frankly. I think you should treat him like a hitter.

And yet last night, there were two situations (bottom of the second and bottom of the fourth) where Maya struck out to end the inning with men on base (two on in the second, one on in the fourth). With a competent hitter in that slot, there's a greater chance that runners advance and that at least one additional run scores. In later innings, including the seventh, there were pinch hitters in the eighth slot. So maybe the run-scoring happened in spite of the unorthodox lineup, rather than because of it.

Alan,Whether you base your line-up on sabremetrics or traditional theory, the test isn't any single game, series, or even month — the test is a 162-game season. Yes, the Nats pitcher last night ended up batting twice with men on base, striking out both times. But using the traditional approach of having your second-best slugger batter fourth, St. Louis saw Berkman ground out to end the game with the tying run on base. Does that one AB negate the value of putting a slugger in the clean-up spot? Of course not. In a game where even the very best hitters don't get a base hit more than 3.5 times out of 10, you can't draw conclusions from a single game.

Livo is so awesome. I know he has pitched only two innings but the way he goes about his business is just magnificent. I have seen Roy Halladay worried with bad counts and stuff. Livo never shows those emotions. Love it!!!

@Eugene in Oregon – Fair enough. Though I might argue that over time, the number 4 hitter will produce more often in that situation, while a chronically weak hitter like a pitcher will conform more to Maya's performance. More to the point – why do you think a Sabremetric lineup, especially one involving the pitcher out of traditional order, isn't in more use? Am not trying for upsmanship here – it's a genuine question.

TimYou apparently think that Werth's problem this year is that he hasn't been "protected" in the lineup. I'd point out that sabremetricians think the idea of "protection" is largely bunk, but I know that such pointy-headed nonsense doesn't fly with a grind it out, dirt under the fingernails, spit in your eye, rootin' tootin' type such as yourself.So let me just put it this way – right now, I'm lovin' this line up.

So let me just put it this way – right now, I'm lovin' this line up.Concur. It seems, the old, respect the game, respect the veterans old school manager Jim Riggleman does learn new tricks. Its helping him win ball games! Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah!

Desi has actually been kind of amazing. He started the year exactly the same as his entire career and then …. A light went on and he is Mr. Reliable.It has been great to see.Although, I must admit, if Jose Reyes came knocking in the offseason, I wouldn't say no.

Alan @ 7:57I agree completely that the #4 will produce more in that situation. No question about that. I was only saying that you can't generalize from a small sample. And on the pitcher-batting-eighth scenario I also agree that in most cases the pitcher will strike out (or otherwise not drive in the run). But the fact that Maya came up twice with runners in scoring position and two outs was pretty much just a random event — it could have happened with him batting ninth (or even seventh). What you're trying to do by batting the pitcher eighth is NOT have him come up just in front of your number one hitter.On the question of why more managers don't use it, two responses: (a) managers are generally risk averse. No GM (or newspaper columnist) will criticize his manager for batting the pitcher ninth, so why open yourself up to such criticism; and (b) even the advocates will tell you that the pitcher-batting-eighth scheme will only net you a few extra runs over the course of a full season, so it's not something that calls out for you to do (as a manager).

Nope, that Michael Morse guy definitely isn't an everyday player, and oh by the way, Danny Espinosa can't hit from the left side of the plate. Everybody's an expert, eh? Loving me some Pudge tonight, too!

@ Joe Seamhead 9:04I got so sick of reading last season and this season's spring training that the Nats' brass didn't see Morse as an every day player because "they think he would have trouble with opponents' best pitchers…"Keep proving 'em wrong, Michael!

Mark said that Morse is just really hot or he's legit.Michael Morse is very close to a career .300 hitter. I think April was just an anomily (sp?). The guy can plain hit… curve balls, fast balls, left field, up the middle, it doesn't matter. #1 starter, converted reliever, it really doesn't matter.I wanna see Werth get hot.

Far more interesting and in-depth insight into the game and the players. I've heard a lot of the color guys around the league at this point and I think he may just be the best … however, I still like Mike Flanagan. It was nice to see them both together with FP defending the Nats turf within MASN. That one event was more than enough to convince me that he was a keeper.

Farm report:Harper played for Hagerstown and knocked in two in the nightcap.Looks like Gaudin started at Potomac and left the game after retiring the first three batters in order. Don't know if that means an injury or just a rain delay.

Oh yeah I forgot to make a suggestion. Can we please change the way "W" is written? On my way home, there are two Walgreens and I always feel like we copied their style. Introduce "N" as well or something else? But please do.

Amen, Joe Seamhead. Hey, has anybody seen my gorses? There were four of them, and now I can't find a one. Oh well.Oh, and LIVO!!! Loved his cagey dodging of the pie in the face. Then, after the interview, he removed his hat and surrendered to it. How could a man of such accomplishment never have experienced that before? Because he's wily. Uh huh.On another note, I'm liking FP, too (and I was a Dibble fan). Did anybody else hear FP's call into the Riggins show today? I just happened to turn it on and he was so enthused about the game yesterday. It was kinda endearing, I must say.

I'm liking FP Santangelo more every game I watch on TV. He's a knowledgeable baseball guy who doesn't talk down to you. Bob and FP are probably my favorite TV booth combo so far.I'm also liking the Nats' offense coming alive. Last night was electric at the ballpark, and on TV it looked like tonight was too.And FS, the curly W is here to stay. Don't know whether Walgreen's had it before the expansion Senators, but it's been on Washington baseball uniforms since the 1960s. And after six and a half years of the new Nats it's started to become iconic. Even people who don't follow baseball wear it.

Big Cat said: "I think the Nats are gonna break out tonight with a bang. 10 maybe 12 runs. "Big Cat, a few hours ago, I would have offered you pretty good odds against that. Now, however, I just want to know if you have any recommendations on the stock exchange. :-)Interesting crowd tonight. Not the super buzz that people were talking about yesterday. Tonight, what I sensed was quiet confidence. Fans that expect to win help produce a team that expects to win. Go Nats!!

@ FS:You aren't the only one who thinks that the Nats' Curly W looks too much like the Walgreens' symbol. Walgreens has been threatening to take the Lerners and MLB to court if the Nats don't change the way that W looks or write a big, fat check to soothe their feelings.

The crowd last night mainly kept the buzzing to the big comeback 7th inning and then the bottom of the ninth. Crowds will be louder in bigger situations and with the game kinda outta reach by the 5th inning the way Livo was pitching, understandable there was more restraint today.What to say that hasn't been said? It was this exact time last year that the wheels came off and the team drained down the pipe to oblivion. Starting with that Houston series (and the Berkman check swing none of us will probably ever forget) and continuing through the interleague play that followed the next two weeks, we starting losing more than winning. After a devastating sweep at Baltimore, we were 10 under .500 and the season seemed all but lost.After game 68 last season, the club was 31-37. Tonight, at the same point, we are 32-36.There have been a lot of comparisons between last year's hot start and this year's slow start, but I'll put this to you. Coming off that West Coast road, and specifically that 3 of 4 series against the Pads, this feels like a team that is suddenly headed in a totally opposite direction.Winning games will always make you look good and feel good about the team, but I think there is a genuine reason to believe in these guys as they put these outings together. And what do you know, another series against the O's coming up…

Great win today. I was also a big Dibble fan, but I must say FP has also won me over. I really like him.Five game winning streak and we have extended our string of errorless innings to new heights.Go Nats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

… as folks have been saying: when Zim comes back, it's like landing a star free agent for free. Playing decently during his absence (despite atrocious hitting) is really paying off now.Defense has been outstanding. Pitching has been great (in particular I love the way reduced number of walks) for starters and for relievers. All along, all we needed was some hitting. And maybe we're finally getting some of that now, too. I have no idea if "hitting is contagious", but a couple of guys breaking out of their slump at the same time that Zim returns is terrific timing.(And 27K+ attendance two nights in a row)

Great game, perfect weather, excellent seats, magnificent full moon, Livo CG shutout, and a big sack o' taters. Man, it just doesn't get any better. OK, the line at Shake Shack was way too long, but then, they were having happy hour.

FS – The Walgreen's logo bothered me too, and I looked it up – they revised their logo in 2008, three years after the Nats brought back the curly W. Walgreen's claims it is based on a logo they used in the 1930's, but the only images I found of their old logo had the "tail" hanging off the right side of the W, not the left side like the Nats. I am amazed the Nats did not sue. Ironically, Walgreens sued Wegmans a year or two ago when they also started using a W, but it was not nearly as close a copy of Walgreens as the Walgreens W was a copy of the Nats W.

I think I will look on line tomorrow for articles or blogs about the game written by the St Louis folks. I am willing to bet that this is one of their most horrible games ever – not as many runs against them as that meltdown against Philadelphia a couple of years ago (which was 17 or 18 as I recall) but I think they actually scored in that game, were not shut out like this one. Yesterday and today were such terrific games for us! AND, (we are still errorless, but I don't want the gods to get angry.)

and Morse's second, the moon shot, had to be 12-15 rows deep past the bullpen–430 feet, easy, and as high as the top deck seats. That same ball right down the line would be onto the pavilion. And Espinosa's shot rang off the facade of the second deck and rebounded all the way back to the tarp on the first base side by section 131.

Farid made a very good point at MLBTR under a story about who might be available if the Nats become sellers.In essence, he said, this could work out beautifully. 1. LaRoche is healthy by ST.2. Morse begins 2012 in left field.3. At the trade deadline, the Nats deal LaRoche, move Morse back to first and bring up Harper, to man the OF with Werth and either Bernie or Upton.You get more prospects, Morse is under team control until 2014 and you keep on rolling. And that's not to mention Strasburg, Rendon, Cole, Ray, Meyer, Goodwin…There's quite a glare in here. I gotta wear shades.

—————————-Joe Seamhead said…I think that this is the best last place team that I've ever seen.—————————-But at least we're not the 5th place team — if you check the standings you'll see we're now tied for 4th in the NL East (after Florida dropped two to the Phillies).