Isaiah 43 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine.10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: .....

Shalom ---char on 6/7/13

Blessings and protection on ya Sis. Couple of my fav's below.

Isa 51:1 Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged. 2 Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, blessed him, increased him.

///---Trav on 5/7/13appreciating this and more.Thanks. ---Chria9396 on 5/16/13///

Ditto that.

Isaiah 43 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine.10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Trav, just because I do not agree on some things you say, does not mean I seek division from you. Why do you take it personal? Why does everything have to be personal. I disagree that dead people who died rejecting Christ will have a second chance while dead. Just because I disagree with that, does not mean I hate you, or want seeking division from you. What do you do when your wife disagrees with you? Is she causing division? I don't even know you. You need to lighten up. I have nothing against your person.

Trav, you really outdid yourself with (1 Peter 4:6). Indicating that Peter was went around preaching the gospel to dead people so they could be saved, while they wer dead. That is not what that passage is talking about at all. Peter had preached to so many people who were dead already by the time he wrote the book. It is just silly to think that Peter went around preaching the gospel to people who were dead already who cannot hear. You do know nothing would happen if he did right? That must be some kind of voodoo.

Having a second chance for salvation after death is not in the Bible. ---Mark_V. on 5/21/13

Well, GOD does what GOD wants to do. Ezekiel 37 is foundationally clear.Your open-ended pick a fight question is unnecessary for us to dwell/stir on. You will sit or lay quietly at the end and wonder no more.1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling, One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM, Ephesians 4:4-5

Paul is not ignorant that there is more than one baptism in Gods history, but that there is only one baptism in the current dispensation required for salvation. He explains this baptism by the Spirit in 1 Cor 12:13, Col 2:11-12, and Titus 3:4-6.

Today our baptism requires no effort of our own, but is performed by the operation of God by the Spirit into the body of Christ after we believe. This immersion into Christ identifies us with Christ, his death and his resurrection

Trav, you did not answer the question I ask you maybe four times before. I was talking of the dead in sin. Neither one of those passages you gave mention anything about those who died already in their sin. "All" who? Because if you are suggesting by the passages you gave that people who have been dead for thousands of years who died in their sins, rejecting God, will be save even though they died rejecting the Lord you have another gospel not in the Bible. Having a second chance for salvation after death is not in the Bible.

Trav,.... Israelites, those who died in their sins already,"Are they included in the salvation of all Israel will be saved?" ---Mark_V. on 5/20/13

Answered twice with scripture, blocked both times. 3rd time:Ezekiel 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name,37:22 I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

Trav, I have not see your answer to my question. It should be a simple 'yes' or simple 'no.' My question again is concerning the Israelites, those who died in their sins already,"Are they included in the salvation of all Israel will be saved?"

Water baptism has no bearing on going to heaven, the matter of water baptism, as well as concerning all Bible doctrines, Gods will concerning His children is expressed in this verse:Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that ye be Perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. I Cor 1:10.Those, who believe water baptism is necessary for this present age of grace, should at least agree on one method and one interpretation of the meaning of their Jewish water ceremony and be sure that all agrees with the Word of God, rightly divided.

---Trav on 5/7/13appreciating this and more.Thanks. ---Chria9396 on 5/16/13

(Amazing to me now... that I/ we go and have gone against the prophets). Multiple scriptural witnesses over last 16 years testify now to Trav. Trembling I thank GOD for the Mr Green,provocation at my 40th year of life.

Psalm 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.Psalm 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes, lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

1/12 apostles fell away. did gentiles take that spot with apostle to the gentiles? ---aka on 5/11/13

Research the many witness scriptures O.T. Northern House of 10...put away/divorced were called the uncircumcised or goyim/nations/ethnos (gentile) by Sth House of 2 Judah/Benjamin.

The marriage laws are given for proof of authenticating/verifying the promises of GOD. The good news! Other than Death/Widowhood....the North House of 10, polluted could not be redeemed/cleansed/virginized. 10 virgins. They are only freed by the death of the husband. GOD can't die so there was a huge problem that men couldn't conceive fixing. GOD could and did. Jesus died.Jer 3:1-3:20, Hosea 2:2-12:12.

Trav, you keep mentioning the tribes but never answer the questions about those who died in their sins. Are they included in the salvation of all Israel? I do not believe it is a hard question to answer if you are so sure because you always mention the tribes.

You may have something on the 7. Not clear to me yet on 10/5 virgins. On the 1/12th empty slot, easily filled with the thirteenth tribe. Ephraim/Manasseh.On David's extra stone...Goliath had brothers...and weapon bearers? Don't know definitely on this either.Joshua 16:4 So the children of Joseph, Manasseh and Ephraim, took their inheritance.

Trav, so what you are saying is that Israel is saved right now because of God's promise? And if they are, are you talking about all Israel from the time they became Israel to now? Including those who died in their sins? I hope you are not saying that? You do know there is no second chances once they are dead? And you do know that those who rejected the Lord are not saved right? So instead of given me to whom He was married to, why not explained about those who rejected Him at the alter? Those who did what they wanted without God.

Trav, I'm glad you agree, that God never broke His pomises to Israel. ---Mark_V. on 5/10/13

Don't entirely agree with your statement on the New Covenant.As pointed too before. GOD was married to the entire nation/ethnos of Israel. Isa 62:4/ Jer 3:14. He put away divorced the Nth House of 10 patriarch names. But not Judah/Benjamin. Eeven though she was as adulterous as the Nth House sister. Jer 3:8. The promise was to clean her for remarriage. Not possible under law as the Husband, GOD would have to die to free the adulterous wife for remarriage. YAHshua, did physically die and remarriage was possible. Ref the 10 virgins,....twelve apostles etc representing. See Heb 8:8/ Jer 31:31. Plainly stated.

The only thing required for heaven is for a person to accept Christ as a personal Savior. To feel you have to do anything for Salvation is a form of works, and this includes baptism. However, baptism is important since it serves both as a testimony to yourself and to others as to what Christ has done, and what we will do as result of what Christ did for you, plus it's the promise that as Christ was raised from the dead we will be raised from the dead. Romans 6:4 (NASB77) "Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life." How suicide is treated, this is not in my area of knowledge.

Trav, I'm glad you agree, that God never broke His pomises to Israel. It was the people who broke their promises. For God said,"Behold I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious And he who believes on him will by no means be put to shame. Therefore to you who believe He is precious, but to those who are disobedient The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone, a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense. They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed" ( 2 Peter 2:6-8). The priesthood was of no use to the nation of Israel it had many flaws, only to the few of the elect who believed, that is why it was replaced under the New Covenant (2 Peter 2:9,10).

//One is regeneration into one body, the other is endwelling or been filled with the Spirit for ministry. Two different topics.//True Mark, two different topics, two different peoples, two different types of baptisms. Only 1 Cor. 12:13 applies now.water baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

Christan, The Old testament priesthood, which was in the flesh, became obsolete by the coming of Christ, ..... ---Mark_V. on 5/7/13

Deut 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord, My spirit that is upon thee, my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, ....

Christan, you are right about the Christians royal priesthood. The Old testament priesthood, which was in the flesh, became obsolete by the coming of Christ, and the inauguration of His perfect priesthood, which brings men to perfection. The Aaronic priesthood was plagued by imperfections and sin, yet the priesthood inauguated by the our Lord is marked by the perfection and the holiness of Jesus Christ, in whom there was no sin. The area of sin is where the Old priesthood was weak. Due to the sinfulness of these priest, provisions had to be made to cover their own sins, so that they would not die (Exo. 28:40-43, 29). It was not until Jesus Christ came as Israel's Messiah and Great High Priest that the sins of men were atoned for, once for all.

For one thing, it is possible for someone to introduce a thought/idea that had not been previously considered.

However, what one does with that thought, is that ones responsibility as all must give an account. ---Chria9396 on 5/6/13

Happened to me. You've accurately written a truth Chria.

May GOD bless Charlie Green and his wherever he is. He pointed and I looked/searched to see if it was so.

Jeremiah 17:13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.

"For those who believe you can not cause somebody to do something,read your bible."

For one thing, it is possible for someone to introduce a thought/idea that had not been previously considered. However, what one does with that thought, is that ones responsibility as all must give an account.

"Physical nation because GOD promised and doesn't lie." TravReally? If it was a physical nation that Peter was describing then every Jew would believe in Jesus Christ .... ---christan on 5/3/13

Because jews call themselves jews doesn't make them "Judah". We should be careful of our own logic doctrines.First, we shouldn't go against the prophets.Christ came to his own...Judah...they would have him not. John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

We've been taught, by the blind.Judah does not represent all of Israel. Just 1/12th. Lost Sheep Nth House accepted.Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

michael e, all believers in Christ are baptized into one body, and endwelled by the Spirit. Every believer born of God the Spirit, are also endwelled by the Spirit for ministry and given the gifts of the Spirit. Not the same gifts to everyone, but different ones. Acts 2:4 is speaking of believers been endwelled by the Spirit of God by God or filled with the Spirit for ministry with gifts. (1 Cor. 12:4) is speaking of believer been regenerated an been baptized into one body in Christ. One is regeneration into one body, the other is endwelling or been filled with the Spirit for ministry. Two different topics. I believe that Cherie is speaking of water baptism. And whether a person is save if he doesn't get water baptized.

The baptism that produces the transformation not made with hands,Paul doesn't teach members of the BoC are baptized with or in the Spirit.

For BY one Spirit are we all baptized into one body (I Cor. 12:13).

Paul taught, believers today are baptized by the Spirit.

Speaking of Christ, John predicted:

He shall baptize you WITH the Holy Ghost (Matt. 3:11).

fulfilled at Pentecost, where they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,.. (Acts 2:4)Christ is the Baptizer here, and He baptized people with the Spirit. often confused with I Cor 12:13, where the Spirit is the Baptizer, baptizing people into the Body. Different than Pentecost, where the Lord was the Baptizer, baptizing people with the Spirit.

Cherrie, if God saves someone, he is saved. It is not conditional on what man can do or not do. If a person is saved and kills himself, it doesn't mean he loses his salvation, it means he was distubed. Oh, we can say, he probably didn't trust God on the given day, but let me tell you, millions of believers today do not trust God many times on everything. A person does not have to get baptized to be saved. Baptism is an act of man following the instruction given to the new believers. The thief on the cross never got baptized.

Luke 3:16 - John answered saying unto them all, I Indeed baptize you with water , but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose, he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

( The Bible tell about Two baptism - One Water - The other Spirit - But It Just One that saves, And that's the Holy Ghost, )

Really? If it was a physical nation that Peter was describing then every Jew would believe in Jesus Christ and wouldn't have crucified the Prince of Glory. See how erroneous your understanding of a "royal priesthood"?

You forget, that the promise of eternal life is a spiritual promise and not of this world which is made of flesh and blood. However, it's true that the chosen people of God has to first come into the flesh before they are made spiritual after their passing in the worldly life.

And while they walk this world, the Christians are indeed "royal priesthood". Not in the flesh but in the spirit.

Peter one of Israels twelve apostles speaks to the nation of israel(1Pet 2:9)

The church, boC, composed of Jew and Gentile doesn't have twelve tribes.

When the Bible mentions twelve tribes, it isn't the church of one body (Rom 12:5, Eph 4:4).

Israels Messiah chose twelve men to minister with him: one for each tribe of the nation Israel (Mark 3:14).

Our apostle Paul speaking to the Church the Body of Christ advocates baptism. Rom 6:3,1Cor 12:13,Gal 3,27In order to be a member of the BoC, you must be baptized into the Body.1 Cor 12:13...by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,..Our apostle Paul is clear about salvation, in his gospel.We have a pattern1 Cor 4:16 1 Cor 11:1 Phil 3:17

Do you think think Peter was referring to a spiritual or physical nation of "royal priesthood"? And why "royal priesthood"? Who's their head priest? Is He physical or spiritual? ---christan on 5/1/13

Physical nation because GOD promised and doesn't lie. Royal because of marriage and covenants with GOD. Reference: Abraham/Jacob/David. Peculiar in King James time meant "special","separate or distinct". Our anointed Lord is the high priest who is both physical and spiritual. Christianity circled the globe on a sometimes blind sheep hunt mission...through what people? See this and you have found in part, not Judah but divorced/forgiven/redeemed lost sheep Israel.

michael_e, when Peter wrote "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.", did he explicitly say "where Israel would be priests"? Do you think think Peter was referring to a spiritual or physical nation of "royal priesthood"? And why "royal priesthood"? Who's their head priest? Is He physical or spiritual? Your understanding is all wonky.

You say "Our apostle advocates baptism." Yes they did BUT did they advocate that baptism saves? Or is it you are saved, now be baptized? Which comes first? Please read Acts carefully, if you choose to elaborate.

//where Israel would be priest"? Where does it say so in the Bible? And why would we even need a priest// Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people,Israel was and will be a kingdom nation//You're simply advocating that baptism saves//Our apostle advocates baptism. but it has nothing to do with "WATER"(Rom 6:3,1Cor 12:13,Gal 3,27Hope this helps you.

michael_e, "where Israel would be priest"? Where does it say so in the Bible? And why would we even need a priest (unless you're a temple worshiper) when Christ (the high priest) has already come and is now sitted at the right of the Father?

If "remission of sins" can be obtained "through water washing" alone, Christ's death at Calvary was in vain. You're simply advocating that baptism saves, which is unscriptural. This is exactly what Mark 1:4 says, "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

Ruben, did you even bother reading verses 26 to 35? The eunuch was already a vessel of honour chosen by God, for it was the angel of the Lord to told Philip to go see him in the desert and teach him about who the book of Isaiah which he was reading and who Isaiah was referring to (verse 35). It wasn't so much about baptism though after being taught, he wanted to be baptised - an act of a converted soul.

By your erroneous doctrine then, the poor old thief on the cross must be burning in hell even after Christ promised him "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." There's no mention of him being baptised while he was hanging on that cross, was there?

Water baptism was a Hebrew water rite(Hebrews 6:1-3) Some don't understand Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, so conclude we are somehow related to Israel and are to follow the preaching and teaching of John the Baptist and Jesus while he walked the earth.

water baptism didn't originate with John the Baptist. The people of Israel knew what John was doing. As the Pharisees did, but didn't know why.(John 1:25)It was written in the Levitical law that the priests were to be washed with water before entering their holy position.(Lev 8:6 Exodus 40:12)

John the Baptist came proclaiming the kingdom of God (where Israel would be priests) and the remission of sins through water washing.(Mark 1:4)

christan * Classic example is the eunuch in Acts 8:26-40 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him."

Before the eunuch said he believed Jesus is the Son of God he said:"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water, what doth hinder me to be baptized? "V 36

I would have to say Yes to the blog question. Yes, a person commiting suicide can go to heaven.

My answer is two-fold. First, can you go to heaven with unrepented sins? If you are a believer, your sins have been dealt with by God, past and present. If you die, you will be saved, regardless of your unrepentant status.

Second, is murder an unpardonable sin? The Bible tells me of only one unpardonable sin, blapheming the HS. Murder is forgivable and suicide is self-murder.

Therefore, if the person is a believer and they commit suicide, we should see them again on That Day.

Is "FAITH in Jesus Christ" not sufficient? You see, in Christianity, it was Christ who fulfilled the law on behalf of His people and then He died for their sins, also on behalf of His people that they will have eternal life.

What you're advocating is precisely what work mongers do to be saved, which is against the teachings of the Holy Bible. This is what Paul wrote, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

"FAITH in Christ" is what earns the sinner the "righteousness of Christ", that's why the Christian is going to be with his Saviour.

Some believe we should follow the Lord in baptism. If so, you should follow the Lord in circumcision (Luke 2:21). Follow Him into the synagogue on the Sabbath (Luke 4:16). Follow Him as One under the Law, (Gal. 4:4 & Matt. 23:1-3). Follow Him proclaiming the kingdom at hand (Matt. 4:17, 9:35, 10:7). You should heal sick, cleanse lepers, and raise the dead (Matt. 10:8). If anyone sues you, you should give them more than they demand (Matt. 5:40). If one borrows from you, don't deny their request, but lend to them without expecting to be repaid (Matt. 5:42 & Luke 6:34-35). If you follow Jesus in His earthly ministry, you should do these things, Jesus Himself taught and practiced them.What is your excuse for not doing all these things?

Many are misguided think the act of baptism saves the sinner. Spend time to read the book of Acts and you will notice it's those who already believe in the Lord that are asked to be baptised. That's why it's call "believer's baptism".

Classic example is the eunuch in Acts 8:26-40 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him."

Those of the Vatican persuasion think otherwise and that's because they baptise their infants. And no where in Scripture does it teach of such baptism.

suppose there was a group of ten new believers who flew to Israel for a trip. for an extra fee, the package included a sojourn to the river jordan to be baptized OR a chance to be with the poor in jerusalem and offer your money to the ones you help instead. 5 are baptized, 5 go to Jerusalem. on the return home, the plane crashes. they all die.

which one of the 10 did not do what jesus told them? which group's work was greater?

//Stop making excuses.//

six times before christ crucified my flesh i was baptized and hell bound.

stop insisting on ceremony that just might get you what you thought it would.

Rom 6:3-6 no water in this passage. He's saying we are immersed into the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:12-13 says, "For as the body is one, and hath many members,... For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body ...." no mention of baptism into water by a preacher.---michael_e on 4/28/13

Agreed.

He [Jesus] will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. -john the (water) baptist

\\Only God can read the heart. By confessing & believing Jesus as our savior we are saved. baptism is just the outward symbol & doesn't save us itself.---womandisciple on 4/27/13\\

Where did you get this anti-Biblical idea, womandisciple?

1 Peter 3:21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation.Eph 2:8-9 says, "For by grace ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God,: Not of works,..."Baptism in water is an act of work.---michael_e on 4/28/13OKAY???

James 2:17So, also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is DEAD.

Why don't you just do what Jesus tells us to do? Stop making excuses.

Mark 16:16Whoever believes and it baptized will be saved, who ever does not believe will be condemned.

Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation.Eph 2:8-9 says, "For by grace ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God,: Not of works,..." Baptism in water is an act of work. 1 Cor 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel ...." The gospel of grace is Jesus, freely gave His life for our sins, was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead (1 Cor 15:1-4).

Rom 6:3-6 no water in this passage. He's saying we are immersed into the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:12-13 says, "For as the body is one, and hath many members,... For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body ...." no mention of baptism into water by a preacher.

Taking of a life is breaking the law of "thou shall not kill", what more if one commits suicide? Isn't it similar?

No believer of Christ will ever take his own life in the act of suicide. How can the Holy Spirit who is in the Christian drive the person to suicide? It's impossible!

As for baptism, being baptize does not save the sinner. It's because he's been saved by grace through faith in Christ that he's guided by the Holy Spirit to be baptize as commanded by Christ. That's the difference.

Cherie the only requirement for entering the kingdom of Heaven is to 'believe'. To rely on, adhere to, trust in, and depend on the Lord Jesus, The Christ. We are blessed in that Father's goodness first induces a genuine sorrow within us, that leads us to repentance. Once we are drawn, by Him, to salvation, He then works in us to believe, will, and to do that which is pleasing to Him. We are kept by His power, "preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus [the] Christ. Faithful [is] He that called you, who also will do [it]." Refs. Act 16:31> Rom 2:4 >Jhn 6:29>Phl 2:13>1Pe 1:5>1Thes.5:23,24

cheri, if the person is saved, he is going to heaven. If he isn't saved, he is not going to heaven. it is sad when a person feels they have no other way out. my own son has threatened to blow his brains out because of his wife and alcohol. I just pray he does not get that depressed. I hold him up in prayer everyday. so his wife and son also.