When to transplant??

louie_st_louie(z6 STL)September 16, 2006

I live in St. Louis MO. and need to know when and the best way to transplant. Over the last many years I have recieved plants from family and bought some plants from the nursery. The last 2 years I did not get any flowers and after much investigation it seems I was doing it all wrong.

So I planted all of the bulbs(approx 25)in a large flat last Janurary and took outside after the last frost and have been growing great foilage all year. Now I would like to prepare for next year's flowers.

The Foilage is very green and hardy.

I am planning on bringing inside and stop watering and letting the foilage die off.

Should I repot before I let the foilage die back or should I wait until the foilage dies back before I re pot.

Keep the plants outdoors as long as possible!
Stop watering when the temperatures begin to drop below 55Â°F every night.
Keep them outdoors until the night temperatures drop below 45Â°F.
Cut the green leaves with a bread knife.
Remove the superficial loose soil and debris so that the uppermost bulb part becomes visible.
Spray thoroughly with a double concentrated solution, 2 mL/L of a Dimethoate preparation like Bi-58, Danadim, Perfecthion, Rogor, Roxion, 400 g Dimethoate / L emulsion concentrate.
Move your "flat" indoors to a place (regardless whether it be dark or bright) where you can maintain a temperature of 50 to 60Â°.
Separate and replant when spontaneous new growth will appear approximately 3 months later.

Hans, a flat in this context means a pot that is perhaps a half meter square by 6-8cm. high. Seedling flats are those plastic trays with maybe 48-96 little cups where the soil and seedlings go. One observation I would like to make. How old are these bulbs? If they are not mature, forcing dormancy would not be beneficial. We need to know three things louie: 1) How old are the bulbs? 2) What is the average circumference of the bulbs? 3) How many leaves do the bulbs have? Based on your answers, we can give better advice for your situation.

My advice was meant for bloomable bulbs; that is correct.
If the bulb diameters exceed 7 cm (the respectice circumferences then being larger than PI x diameter = 22 cm) AND the leaf fans do consist of 6 and more strong leaves then I would assume bloomability provided that these bulbs are derived from the ordinary tetraploid knight star lily hybrids, not from certain modern hybrids which might bloom from much smaller bulbs yet. (For example these nice trumpets "Amputo" and "Pink Floyd")

I do agree that the term flat refers to what we start seedlings in over here in the states. Therefore I used the term flat incorrectly. My bulbs are planted in a rectangular planter 8 inches wide by 3 feet long and 6 inches high.
Some of these bulbs are 3 inches in diameter and very firm. They are on the average 6 year old bulbs. They havenÂt bloomed in about 3 years. The smaller bulbs were offsets from the larger ones a few years back. All of the bulbs have many strong green leaves. Some have a little red in them. They have been outside in partial sun in our rose garden since April and I have been bottom watering and using some rose fertilizer occasionally. The bulbs were planted covering 3/4 of the bulbs.
I would like to separate into bout 5 groupings and stager when they bloom inside from January thru March, then put outside and start the process over for next year.
I havenÂt heard about the cut the leaves approach.
Where can I find
"double concentrated solution, 2 mL/L of a Dimethoate preparation like Bi-58, Danadim, Perfecthion, Rogor, Roxion, 400 g Dimethoate / L emulsion concentrate"
Thanks for the help

You maust prepare that solution of 2 mL / L from one of the preparations mentioned above.
However IF your bulbs are entirely FREE of pests namely the bulb scale mite Steneotarsonemus laticeps which is barely invisible (0.25 mm) to the unnarmed eyes the you can omit this phytosanitary measure.

A superficial contamination by tarsonemid mites generates red streaks and dots on the bulb surface. Generally the damaged tissue will subsequently develop red blotch as a secondary fungal infection, Stagonospora curtisii. A deeper infestation with these 8-legged critters is revealed when the leaves become malformed.The following image link shows a kind of leaf serration which is typical for bulb scale mite presence.
Even if only one leaf of one community box of bulbs is performing in that manner it is certain that all bulbs are infested and need to be cured as described or, more profoundly, by a hot water treatment, which requires properly working technical or laboratory equipment.

This kind of extended red discoloration on this one leaf has another reason; I think it comes from a previous sunburn, so nothing to worry about.
And I think that you can expect blooms from at least one moiety of these bulbs.
Nevertheless, due my own bad experiences I must recommend an insecticidal measure though. Spray the bulbs thoroughly with a Pyrethrum spray or longer lasting synthecic pyrethroid / propoxur spray. These agents do not work systemically (they are not resorbed by the plant tissue) but they are far better then nothing.
You know, when I was much younger I lost an entire collection of knight star lilies to these critters, including seedlings which were blooming for the first time. I am a burnt child as we like to say in Germany.

If you store the bulbs cool and dry the leaves lose their function. They continue to transpire though and this is disadvantageous because the bulbs will become to a certain degree desiccated and softer, BEFORE then the leaves finally resign and die.

It is furthermore old wisdom but nevertheless UN-true that the "power of the leaves be transferred into the bulbs" - the leaves have imported and transferred "power" (that is assimilation product) during the entire growth season. The "homework" IS already DONE.

OK, Hans, two things. First, If I may, "barely invisible (0.25 mm) to the unnarmed eyes", the expression is this: barely visible to the naked eye. I speak German, and can see from your point of view how strange some English expressions are. Second, and back to business, you recommend cutting the leaves before they dry out? This is interesting, because I have been letting them dry out and cutting the stem of the bulb to neaten it up for almost 20 years now, but I am willing to try it the other way. My bulbs are always firm and solid after this process.

"barely visible" (almost invisible) to the unarmed or naked eye that is what I wanted to say *lol* That is correct.

If your different handling works good for you then continue this manner.

However, cutting the whole freh "head" of leaves is very important for me as I still experience an extreme infestation pressure from tarsonemid mites on my bulbs. A brief examination of the fresh, white wound surface on the bulb reveals very quickly whether mites have already enterd the core. Then the area, particularly where the leaf edges are situated will show one or more red dots. If possible I cut one or further slices of bulb away until the area looks clean...
Lucky all of you who do not "possess" this critter

Hello
Loouie, in my opinion your planter (flat/box)has too small soil volume for the number of bulbs you have in there.But then I am no expert.
Guys, in your opinion how much soil by volume would be the minimum requirment of full grown healthy root system of a bulb.
ARIF

I agree with Arif. Louie, you said you have 25 bulbs planted in a container that is 36 inches long, 8 inches wide and 6 inches deep, and the bulbs are 6 years old. At age 3 a bulb can reach maximum adult size. From your picture, I would have guessed these bulbs younger. I do not think you have provided enough growth room for the bulbs. My bulbs have extensive root systems in 8 to 12 inch pots. 2 or 3 bulbs will fill the pot with roots. I like to feed my bulbs heavily with Osmocote. What do you feed with?

You might want to choose 3 or 4 of the largest bulbs to force dormancy and try to rebloom. That way the others can keep growing and gaining size for larger blooms. My plants that keep growing during the winter usually bloom in February. I welcome the blooms in the dead of winter. Perhaps the the ones you don't force into dormancy would bloom for you in Feb or March.

All
I planted all of these bulbs in the planter this year to help grow the bulbs. I am planning on Transplanting in 4 or 5 different size planters. Some of these bulbs are off sets from the larger bulbs from previous years. I was doing it all wrong for many years and wasn't getting any flowers so I planted all in this planter and watered and feed all year. Now I want to prepare for flowers next year.
So the real question is when do I perform the transplanting. I am thinking of separating (right down the middle hopefully without much root damage) the planter now into 2 groups so I can bring one group inside now and another in a month from now.
Once inside i will cut the leaves off and add some Dimethoate. Then I will separate and replant when spontaneous new growth will appear approximately 3 months later.
Then enjoy the wonderful flowers.

I found that the separation is performed much easier when the substrate is already fully dried out.
I agree that the bed volume is critically low - and this would come to light during the subsequent season IF no separation and replanting be done.

"A brief examination of the fresh, white wound surface on the bulb reveals very quickly whether mites have already enterd the core." What does a core infestation look like when you cut the leaves like this? I will cut the leaves and look. I have a bulb or two that have the serrated edge seen in photos you posted to other threads. Is this a definite diagnosis, or can there be other reasons for such leaf damage?

Hmmmmm...If I were you louie, this is what I would do. While your bulbs still have leaves on them, spray a systemic insecticide/miticide like Orthenex now before you cut off the leaves (maybe after a week). You can also give the Dimethoate if you want too. Place the planter inside a cool place like unheated garage or basement with 50-60 temp as Hans mentioned. I would just leave them in that planter and not replant yet...they will be resting anyway. After around 8 weeks, and you are ready to wake them up (bring inside house with 70s temp.), then I would replant them. Hans is right about how much easier it is to repot when the potting soil is dry. If you are planning to use same size flats, I would use 5 of those with 5 bulbs planted on each. That would give them like 6 inches of space between each bulb. I think that would provide them with enough growing space for the winter. Hopefully you can have some blooms too. Come spring next year, they will be ready to be repotted individually into 8 or 10 inch pots. Good Luck and hope this helps!

Yes that is a very good idea to perform a first spraying action with systemic agents while the leaves are still present. Then the agent will be absorbed far more effectively

A proper re-plantation generally includes a thorough watering-in to bring the soil in closest contact to the roots - and from this point of view it would be inappropriate to replant/repot knight star lilies now, at the very beginning of their reposal period.

I do not yet have photos on hand of deeply contaminated bulbs according to my description above. However if you make the cut and regard the surface accurately - it will be either completely white or you will clearly discover these few red spots which indicate a deeper mite infestation.