Smackdown: Kind of Blue vs. Bitches Brew

When it comes to music, arguments can get passionate -- and even heated. In our Soundcheck Smackdown series, guests square off on new releases, controversial artists, or polarizing trends – and we take your calls and comments.

2009 and 2010 have been big anniversary years for Miles Davis fans. But only one album can reign supreme. Today, Soundcheck's weekly Smackdown series pits the iconic Kind of Blue (1959) against the genre-bending Bitches Brew (1970). May the best riffs win!

Joining us is Ashley Kahn, music historian, journalist and author of several books on jazz including Kind of Blue: The Making of the Miles Davis Masterpiece; and Will Layman, writer, teacher and a jazz critic for Pop Matters and other publications.

Which is the more influential album? Tell us why below.

Guests:

Comments [31]

Michael Kellough
from Staten Island

Bitches Brew.

When I left home to start college and study art at FSU in summer of 1970 I spent a bunch of my summer job money on some new technology, a Sony portable stereo cassette player. Battery powered, it had two detachable speakers all assembled into a nice leatherette briefcase.

I didn't yet have any cassette tapes (portable music all 8-track until then) so I stopped off at the music store and bought a few. Not knowing what to buy I took a chance and just chose stuff based on the cover art. I don't think I'd ever even heard of Miles Davis but the psychedelic realism of the Bitches Brew cover was so amazing I bought it anyway.

Got to campus, went through orientation, met a few like minded people and we decided to go see the sunset at the FSU Reservation on Lake Bradford. I decided to take the stereo and extra batteries and we'd all listen to my new unopened tapes for the first time.

And...I'd take LSD for the first time.

Laying on a sun-warmed concrete boat ramp on a lake in Florida, on a clear summer night, listening to Bitches Brew (in stereo), on acid, was a fantastic introduction to fusion jazz and I went on to absorb Weather Report and John McLaughlin etc.

Also in rotation that night; Donovan's "Open Road" and Quicksilver Messenger Service's "Just For Love". By chance, a fine combination.

Oh, nothing sounds like those hokey, stale SoundCheck promos about the guy who grew up in Africa with zebras but listened to Led Zeppelin, Philip Glass blathering about some slurpy love thing and whatever. I only wish WNYC would repeat them EVEN MORE

No choice necessary, two different eras, two different Miles; add John Mclaughlin's electric guitar and Davis' tripped out trumpet, with electric keyboard and it's a whole new ballgame. Both major sea-change moments in contemporary Jazz.

"So What" reminds me, the 1959 Robert Herridge Theater CBS TV program "The Sound of Miles Davis" is now available at Netflix. Gil Evans Orchestra, John "Coltraine"(mis-spelled), Paul Chambers, Jimmy Cobb, Wynton Kelly. Cannonball Adderley was at that time part of the sextet, but missed the date due to illness.

KOB is a timeless classic, the absolute best jazz of the era . It set a standard that musicians still strive to reach today and listeners love.

BB is provocative and shatters the traditions of early jazz standards. It offers a rocket ride to new possibilities and so many musicians and listeners jumped right on board for the ride.

I prefer KOB but respect and love BB as the work of a genius who was not willing to rest on his laurels. Miles Davis jumped off a the cliff of his comfort zone to challenge himself and the jazz world to invent new music.

Miles Davis was a one of a kind . He spoke different musical languages fluently and communicated with a variety of audiences. The discussion should really focus on the influence of his whole body of work and his artistic integrity.

"Kind Of Blue" wins hands down,IMHO. I didn't discover it until 1971 myself-and then heard "Bitches Brew"....yeeoow! I saw Miles at Avery Fisher Hall('72'?) and understood what he was doing,but not WHY he no longer sounded anything like KOB. As usual,Miles had moved on.leaving it up to his audience-at least the lucky ones-to catch up. Also, like many others,I can sing any number of solos from KOB. I don't know anyone who says the same about BB. While I still dig the track "Miles RunsThe Voodoo Down" with it's bad-ass ostinato bass-line,it's Kind of Blue that still brings tears to my eyes-"Blue In Green"-each and every time.

The show spoke of how these albums influenced jazz artists, and I think Kind of Blue influenced Miles himself. Brew would never have happened were it not for Kind of Blue--Plus, it is the all time ultimate mood music; you can do anything with that in the background--it is a major player in American culture...period.

Even Miles wasn't influenced by KofB– listen to what he and the band did with it when they took it on tour in 1960 (Live in Stockholm, for example.) Very fast, edgy, pushing the envelope...already looking ahead to the music of the late sixties and seventies.

Don't forget all those albums he made in the interim between these 2. "Kind of Blue" led to ESP and Miles Smiles; which then morphed stylistically into Nefertiti, Filles du Killemanjaro and eventually the masterpiece In a Silent Way.I think Silent Way is as important, if not more so, as Bitches Brew. And the most controversial Miles album followed Brew; "On the Corner" sparked more extremes of opinion in its day than anything Miles recorded before or after.

You're missing the true Miles masterpiece, In A Silent Way! That album doesn't have the electric indulgences of Bitches Brew, but is far more compositionally complex than Kind of Blue. If you're really looking for an evening of introspective solitude or sultry romance, than In A Silent Way is your best bet, by far.

Kind of Blue, no question. at the age of 58, I have both albums. I never get tired of listening to Kind of Blue. Bitches Brew? Haven't listened to in years. I agree that Bitches Brew represents, at least for me, a moment in time. Bitches Brew may have had an affect on jazz artists in terms of leading up to smoth jazz, jazz fusion and so forth, but for listeners, Kind of Blue is so evocative, has so much "emotional veracity," as the current speaker refers to and seems timeless. It's music is immediately recognizable.

As a working Jazz musician (Bob James, Stanley Jordan and more) I remember the first time I heard Bitches Brew, it was like having a window open on a new world. It was almost hard to believe at first listen, two complete rhythm sections playing at the same time, the colors of the electric pianos, combined with the bass clarinet, electric guitar and all the rest. Truly something that was never heard before, it totally changed my life. Kind of blue was a "must hear, must learn" album, but each exists in its' own time sphere. Each was a revolution in "New directions in music" by Miles Davis.

I remember an article that the jazz critic Stanley Crouch wrote in the 80s, castigating Miles Davis for selling out to commercial interests and pandering to public taste. Crouch is a great critic, but he was way off the mark on this one. "Bitches Brew" was indeed a commercial success in 1970, but his many albums after that were resolutely anti-commercial and extremely unpopular. Only when he covered "Time After Time" in the 90s (after Crouch's criticism) did he pander to public taste and enjoy a bit of commercial success for the first time in two decades.

Both are awesome records in their own right and for completely different reasons, but "Kind of Blue" shows up at the top of everyone's "Best Jazz Albums" lists for a reason. The atmosphere, the interaction, and even the story behind the record itself all make it one of the most fascinating records of the era.

Kind of Blue and Bitches Brew are vastly different. Brew is amazing but dated, you can't listen to it without thinking of the late 60' early 70's. Blue however as your guest mentioned seems timeless.How bout Brew vs. Panthalassa w/ B. Laswell.

Sadly, "Bitches Brew" is the more influential and because of the heavier marketing of its release time it got dumbed (VIA ROCK) far more than "Kind Of". If "KOB" is wallpaper, then as wallpaper it's the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel.

"Kind Of Blue", no contest. The mood, the evocative quality, the nocturnal universe of the it...nothing equals it. Nobody sits with a Martini in a dimly lit room, pondering their life, while listening to "Bitches Brew". One of the most deeply beautiful albums ever made. "Bitches Brew" while interesting, is not beautiful. It doesn't connect with deeper emotions.

if the title is "most influential," then the winner is BITCHES BREW by a knockout! HOWEVER, when one considers the HORROR of jazz fusion that followed BITCHES, one would have to consider it a hollow victory.

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