Skepticism

EVENTS

I am so tempted to visit Fargo Grand Forks next week

I’ve been informed that there will be a lecture at UND next Tuesday. I might be able to find time to dart up and come right back home that night…it’s only about a two hour drive.

I’ve heard of Boys before. It’s going to be ugly. There he is, not only attacking atheism, but doing so as a young earth creationist who rejects evolution. But also because Boys had his moment of infamy about 5 years ago. Anyone else remember this? He’s the guy who urged Bush to nuke Mecca and Medina.

Do we sit on our fat bottoms, wring our hands, and wait for Muslim terrorists to strike? What good will that do? What good will result in doing nothing until one or two major cities are in rubble? My suggestion is take offensive action. The only possible way I can see that we might, I say might, escape another Muslim attack upon our nation is for President Bush to issue the following declaration to the world:

“My fellow Americans, as your President my primary responsibility is to protect and defend the U.S. I am not interested in world opinion or in playing games at the UN. Our intelligence reveals that Muslim terrorists are planning to hit us again; furthermore, terrorist leaders have promised that our cities will be in ruins. I believe them so I have been authorized by the Congress to make the following promise: Within 24 hours following an attack upon the U.S., our Air Force will bomb Mecca and Medina into the “Stone Age.” Innocent Saudi Arabian civilians will have 24 hours from the attack on us to flee the two cities that will be razed.

“Let no one be deceived as to our motive. We don’t want to harm any person nor do we desire any territory, and there is no reason for anyone to be killed—as long as there is no attack against our nation. This decision was made to protect U.S. citizens; however, if there is a choice between us and them, it will be them who die. Moreover, Muslim leaders will be the ones who pull the trigger on their own people. If Muslim leaders want to destroy their two holy cities, then they will do so by attacking us. We will respond in 24 hours. May God protect and bless America.”

Stupid to the point of evil, that’s Don Boys. And he’s being sponsored by Baptist Campus Ministries, which claims to be bringing “honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ through Bible-based thoughts, words, and actions”.

Comments

I think this sounds like a good event to go to. I doubt he would expect many new atheists to actually show up to this thing, especially someone as well known as PZ. This brand of evil needs to be shown for what it is.

This decision was made to protect U.S. citizens; however, if there is a choice between us and them, it will be them who die. Moreover, Muslim leaders will be the ones who pull the trigger on their own people. If Muslim leaders want to destroy their two holy cities, then they will do so by attacking us. We will respond in 24 hours. May God protect and bless America.”

Suppose Moslems from Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, or Bangladesh attack the USA in some way?

How is nuking Medina and Mecca going to harm them or matter to them?

This is not a theoretical possibility. The last two Moslems to attack the USA were from…Russia, Checkens from Checknya in Boston.

He is lumping all 1.4 billion Moslems together as a collective, monolithic whole. Meanwhile in Reality-land, the Moslems are fighting among themselves in Afghanistan, Somalia, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, and Syria.

I’m sure Boys will just lie and they will be amusing lies in a perverted, sick sort of way. Routine fundie evil.

Fundies are ugly and the uglier they get, the more atheists they are. New atheism has a powerful tail wind and it is them. When xian became synonymous with hater, liar, idiot, crazy, ignorant, and killer, a lot of people didn’t want to be one any more. Including me.

By the sound of his murderous postering with regard to retaliating to terrorism by the mass murder of innocent people (24 hours isn’t even close to a realistic timescale within which to effect a meaningful mass evacuation of a city, so what he advocates would inevitably lead to thousands of civilian deaths), I think what he really wants to say is “a christian apologist demands that new atheists shut up, or else”.

Not just a liar for jeebus, but a would-be genocidal monster for jeebus. Since he is so eager to endorse responding to those he views as his enemies with utterly disporportional lethal force, I don’t doubt for a moment that if he had the power to enact a pogrom to wipe out anyone who wasn’t his specific flavour of xian, then he would do it without a second thought.

Unfortunately, dominionist fundies who think like him are not all that rare.

The last two Moslems to attack the USA were from…Russia, Checkens from Checknya in Boston.

Wow, this coming from a respected hordling, I am sore from(?, I’m a non-native to the lingo) Raven’s knowledge of geography and history. Xe didn’t checken wiki, now did xe? I’m not even sure ‘Moslem’ is a lemma in an English dictionary.

Still only 3 hours from Morris to Grand Forks, according to Google Maps. Undoubtedly faster than flying, which at best would mean an hour at an airport, flight from Morris to Fargo, another hour at an airport, flight from Fargo to Grand Forks, find a car, etc., etc.

That’s assuming there’s any commercial flying from Morris at all, which I doubt.

PZ should definitely go. As should students from NDSU. It’d be interesting to see someone challenge him and his sponsors on his hate speech.

PZ, bring a friend with an iPod or other small video camera. When you are recognized by the security guy who then tries to Expel you, record the encounter and post it on YouTube.

I’d be tempted to make a Poe “Friendly Picket” with posters of quotes of this jackass promoting nuking Mecca and Medina. Chat up the cops, tell them I think the guy has some interesting proposals and want to help him publicize them. I’d also hand out hand-outs that describe what he proposed and all its implications.

What an idiotic, dick-swinging challenge. Atheists — New and Old — have been “putting up” since the days of Ingersoll; hell since Hume and Voltaire (to confine ourselves to just the modern era, and Christendom). And this swaggering chest-thumping fool wants to issue school-yard level challenges like none of that ever happened.

Anybody know what his PhD is in? All I could find is that it’s from Heritage Baptist University. I’m pretty sure that no one actually puts PhD after their name in things like this whose actually earned a real PhD from an accredited graduate school.

I want you to go and trash him, PZ, just to see what this second rate apologist does to someone who’s prepared to deal with him. On the other hand, good for his CV, not so much for yours. I also expect that he will tightly control the event to insure that you don’t actually get a chance to provide a real response.

Hope this is some kind of typo PZ.
I think that one of our objectives is making people stop killing others for insignificant matters such the “my god is better thaan your god” or for natural resources, and not to “simply” murder fewer people.
That make us seem slightly better than evil religious fanatics, and that isn`t good enough.

PS: english isn`t my language, if i make some kind of mistake interpreting the phrase in the top of this post, sorry!

In repy to raven (#6), Don Boys (an alumnus of Moody Bible College, and it goes further downhill from there) was an Indiana State Representative for some indeterminate time that ended before 2005, possibly in the 1970s. Yet his bio still trumpets his past “experience” as a legislator, one whom the “media” labeled as the most conservative member of the Indiana General Assembly.

My office is about a block from the Indiana State House, and I have frequently testified before legislative committees. I don’t remember ever hearing or reading about Don Boys until today, so he did not leave much of a mark in terms of proposed or enacted legislation. I am somewhat consoled by the fact that Boys was born in West Virginia and now lives in Georgia, close to Chattanooga, Tennessee. Not a native Hoosier.

Here in the Hoosier State, the bar is set pretty low with respect to what sorts of kooks can be elected to the Indiana House. Perhaps there is a de facto quota that I don’t know about, limiting the number of young-earth creationists or fundagelical wackos who are serving in the legislature at any given time. Currently, the fundagelical flag is being proudly waved primarily by Dennis Kruse, a State Senator from northeastern Indiana; Kruse has been extremely active in sponsoring school prayer bills and creationism / balanced treatment bills that he knows had no chance of making it to the Senate floor.

Some good things do happen in Indiana. Ball State U’s president issued a very good letter labeling creationism and I.D. as having no place in the science curriculum, and essentially telling Prof. Eric Hedin that he will have to redesign his course and/or move it to the department that handles the comparative religion courses.

raven@4, if you mean the Boston Marothon bombing, that was, um, two guys from Boston. Who were pretty thoroughly extracted from Chechnya, maybe, but so what? Isn’t that how immigration works?

And the “attacking America” part was pretty much a convenient narrative, that walked right on by the home-grown “let’s blow something up” American nihilism it seems to have been.

And this whole line of argument? Is somewhat peripheral.

I bet Boyd would love to talk about this forever rather than face up to just how stupidly you have to argue to get a reading of science that has it rejecting evolutionary theory, or a reading of Biblical mythology that involves the word “real” without the prefix “un”, or a response to terrorism that involves massive, misdirected misuse of military force.

Sadly, stupid is pretty damned common in some circles. (not referring to you, raven, lest that isn’t clear.)

Jumping Jiminy I hate these guys. Personally. Each and every one of them. When the hell did this level of stupid become the political mainstream? And how can we get rid of it?

Yes…I mean, what could be MORE scientific than the bible, right? All disease, torture, cancer, murder, rape, entropy, suffering, homophobia, misogyny, famine, etc. a direct result of a couple naked people taking the advice of a flying, talking snake and biting from that Evil Fruit ™. Now THAT is science! And all this time, hard working scientists all over the globe have just been lying to us…because….SATAN! Wow. Now I need to get drunk again.

To be fair to the man (somebody has to!) it is an absolute religious duty for Muslims to make the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their lifetime. I imagine his threat would actually be a deterrent to some Muslims, even those living in Chechnya. And isn’t it morally preferable to the policy of mutually assured destruction that we had in relation to the Soviet Union, not that long ago?

If he knew anything about Islam, he would know that no harm could come to Kaaba. Just as the White Elephants of Arbaha refused to enter the city and destroy the Kaaba, I’m sure the bombs would just fly off into heaven. That was in the Year of the Elephant, the year Mohammad was supposedly born.

I won’t even begin to ponder what the backlash to Don Boys military solution would be. Dose he think that a billion or so muslims wouldn’t retaliate? Over the next ten centuries? What complete fucking tool.

good to see that even his poster is a lie. Poor TrueChristians, they just never ever have a chance to spread their nonsense. Except on radio stations all over the country, the dozen and more Christian channels on my cable network, etc etc.