YEA!!! Now i get punnished for working for a company that offers a good health care package!! YEA!! for the 40% tax on cadillac plans!!!! fark! nothing like punnishing those who work to pay for other lazy bastards.

ManateeGag:where ARE the normal crop of conservitrolls? can't take it when they lose one? they should come take their lumps like real men.

Problem is, after re-listening to the oral arguments last night, I am forced to agree with the decision of the court that, although Congress cant compel you to engage in commerce, they can tax you as they see fit.

1) Can we finally put to rest the notion that the Supreme Court was rigged for Republican initiatives? It's tiresome, and in reality the butthurt that usually comes from SCOTUS decisions is because it's your particular ox that's being gored, not because they're ideologically fixed and conspiring to fark Democratic initiatives.

2) The Congress could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by simply calling it what it is, a tax. It was always a tax, and calling it something else was always a big charade. We need to get over this tax-averse attitude we have in this country if we wish to maintain any semblance of the standard of living we currently have. We can't continue to live off of other peoples' largesse for much longer.

3) Congratulations to Barack Obama on his reelection. This essentially sealed the deal, the rest is just pro forma screaming.

At least they shot down the forced Medicaid expansion. That will throw a big wrench into his plans. 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes. Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you. Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you. Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Now liberals, if we get a Republican advantage, how about we implement a tax on the unemployed? No job? Fine, pay a tax. I know you think you just won, but you just screwed everyone equally with another erosion of individual rights.

Congress levies taxes, not the executive, retard.

?

Obama controls his biatches, and you know it.

Still a loss for Obama. Can't work without the Medicaid expansion, and the states are pissed off and will not comply. Most Americans are against the mandate, so you just pissed off a bunch of people who are independents. He is a complete liar and flip flopper since he insisted this was NOT a tax. That will cost votes too.

1033: Some explanation of what has just happened: the individual mandate has been upheld within Congress' power in the "Taxing Clause" (Article1, Section 8, Clause 1 of the United States Consitution). In a nutshell: The charge on those who do not acquire a suitable insurance will be a tax authorised by the taxing clause. And so the individual mandate as a whole will be a valid exercise of Congress's taxation power. Is that clear enough?

Thunderpipes:RolandGunner: Well, in the long run it's the best possible outcome if the law was going to be upheld. By changing the mandate penalty to a tax and, ruling out the commerce clause justification, the bill is upheld without issuing a blanket authorization for the federal government to force the purchase of goods and services.

But it just did. If Obama wants you to do something, you do it, or the feds tax you. That is force. Just wait until Pubs in the states start pushing something you don't like and enforce it with a tax..... Will you like it then?

2. Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113

5. Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike ($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,004

10. Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): Creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income: Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93

Capital GainsDividendsOther*

201215%15%35%

2013+23.8%43.4%43.4%

*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.

11. Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax ($86.8 bil/Jan 2013): Current law and changes:

12. Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers ($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exempts items retailing for13. Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI ($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994-1,995

14. Flexible Spending Account Cap - aka "Special Needs Kids Tax" ($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Indexed to inflation after 2013. There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,388-2,389

17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following

1 Adult2 Adults3+ Adults

20141% AGI/$951% AGI/$1901% AGI/$285

20152% AGI/$3252% AGI/$6502% AGI/$975

2016 +2.5% AGI/$6952.5% AGI/$13902.5% AGI/$2085

Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS). Bill: PPACA; Page: 317-337

18. Employer Mandate Tax (Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer). Bill: PPACA; Page: 345-346

I've been telling people all along that they already deal every year with having to pay out for government mandated private auto insurance and that this wasn't much different. I was told, "but, but...I don't have to own a car!" I laughed. "You can't get to work, run errands, or do much of anything without a car outside of perhaps a few major urban areas," I told them. "No, you do have to own a car and you have to buy insurance for it and the government tells you that you must carry it and bring them proof you did so, period."

Mind you, I think that "Obamacare" is a horrible idea, will make the problem worse, create more debt, and I have a sneaking suspicion that was done on purpose by some Liberals (not Obama, he just wants to look like he's doing something...) within Congress at the time to ensure that we'd have socialized medicine in a decade.

But Constitutional? Yes. Just because something is a really horrible idea doesn't make it unconstitutional. That's a different argument.

Thunderpipes:Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Thunderpipes: 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Oh yeah, the States just love turning away Federal money.

Read the ruling, moron. Feds cannot withold money if states don't expand their Medicaid. That was the ruling. They cannot be penalized and will retain what they have. They just don't need to accept a while bunch of new people and be saddled with the burden. Big win. Obamacare was counting on this use of force to drum up money.

Again: the States just love turning money away. "Oh, you're going to give us more money for a new program?.. no, no, we're fine... we'll just sit here with our thumbs up our butts until our constituents find out we're leaving money on the table."

/It makes for great political grandstanding, but ultimately the States never refuse this kind of money even if there are strings attached.

Thunderpipes:DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Thunderpipes: Weird, Obama stated over and over this is not a tax. Now he argues it is.

At least they shot down the forced Medicaid expansion. That will throw a big wrench into his plans. 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes. Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you. Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you. Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Now liberals, if we get a Republican advantage, how about we implement a tax on the unemployed? No job? Fine, pay a tax. I know you think you just won, but you just screwed everyone equally with another erosion of individual rights.

Congress levies taxes, not the executive, retard.

?

Obama controls his biatches, and you know it. Still a loss for Obama. Can't work without the Medicaid expansion, and the states are pissed off and will not comply. Most Americans are against the mandate, so you just pissed off a bunch of people who are independents. He is a complete liar and flip flopper since he insisted this was NOT a tax. That will cost votes too. Suck it, libs!

This is not a bookmark. I will not be quoting this crybaby rant back to him many, many times in the future.

FlyingLizardOfDoom:Problem is, after re-listening to the oral arguments last night, I am forced to agree with the decision of the court that, although Congress cant compel you to engage in commerce, they can tax you as they see fit.

First SCOTUS ruled that the state can seize your property and turn it over to a corporation of its choosing.

Then it ruled that corporations can spend unlimited money to influence the political process.

Now it has ruled that the state can force you to buy a product from a corporation of its choosing.

If you object to any of this, there is a law on the books (which no one has "standing" to challenge) which allows the state to declare you a "terrorist" based on secret evidence that you are not allowed to see, and based on this to subject you to indefinite detention and/or extra-judicial execution.