The current educational climate in China is somewhat contentious, as most chinaSMACK readers know all too well. However, what the country may be getting wrong at the primary school level it seems to be getting right when it comes to graduate school, and its business schools may soon become dominant global players.

In recent years, the market for MBA graduates has become increasingly competitive. From 1970 to 2009, the number of master’s of business administration degrees awarded annually by US schools has grown from 26,000 to 168,000. As emerging economies throughout the globe continue to develop as well, a degree from a top-ranked MBA program has become vital in order to compete for top management and executive positions. However, as business schools throughout Asia grow in stature, ambitious and intelligent aspiring business students may reconsider their ideas regarding which MBA programs offer the greatest opportunities for success.

Consistently, graduates from the highest ranked MBA programs command large salaries with their degrees and greatly increase their potential for landing the most sought after jobs.Though often notably more expensive than their lower-ranked peers, the Forbes 2011 rankings show that the typical investment in one of the top 50 business schools, including tuition and forgone salary, is typically paid back in about 3.5 years. Forbes reports that graduates of their five top-ranked MBA programs in 2009 typically earn more than $200,000 within five years after graduating.

A 2012 survey of business professionals found that 87% had attended business school, and determined Stanford, Harvard and Wharton to be the best options for aspiring MBA students. 43% of respondents listed the network of contacts as the most important advantage of a quality business school, while 34% named skills and knowledge acquired; 23% listed the value of the brand as a strong advantage. While the top-ranked business schools have traditionally been American institutions, respondents to the survey suggested a number of international schools be included in 2013’s rankings, including The University of Hong Kong. To many experts, China’s rapidly growing economy suggests the country may soon find global recognition for its increasingly valuable MBA programs.

In 2012, the US intelligence community conceded that the country’s standing as an economic superpower will likely be eroded and overtaken by Asian economies by 2030. “The spectacular rise of Asian economies is dramatically altering … US influence,” says Christopher Kohm, chairman of the National Intelligence Council. Much of the economic power in Asia is due to the dramatic and rapid economic growth in China over the past 25 years, leading to a growing need for skilled business professionals throughout the nation.

As China’s economy surges, it has led to a severe shortage of well-trained managers. With demand for management talent running well ahead of supply, a number of elite Chinese schools have rushed to fill the gap. Tens of thousands of Chinese students who once sought MBAs in Europe and the US are beginning to stay in the country, building contacts and taking advantage of schools eager to join the ranks of the world’s finest universities. A 2005 survey found that students were overwhelmingly upbeat about China’s prospects, as well as their own. Increasing numbers of Westerners are also enrolling in Chinese MBA programs, hoping to take position themselves in the fastest-growing major economy in the world.

In a Forbes China survey of 45 business schools from 2005 to 2009, the Beijing-based Cheung Kong Graduate School of Business was found to generate the best returns for executive MBA students. Founded in 2002 by Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka-shing, salaries for graduates in 2005 increased by an average of 16% in the four years after graduation. However, China’s most prestigious business school is perhaps The Guanghua School of Management at Peking University in Beijing. Founded in 1985, the school is one of the most selective in the country, largely using top business schools in the US as a template. “We try to learn from the best practices around the world. Harvard uses case studies, which we think is very important for business education,” says school dean Hongbin Cai, who holds a PhD from Stanford and once taught at UCLA. “Over the past 10 years, we have sent more than 30 faculty members to participate in the Harvard Business School’s case method development programs. They learn the case method, and they come back to develop cases on Chinese firms and then teach those cases in classrooms.”

As the marketplace continues to evolve, the case for Chinese business schools seems to only be growing. As more Chinese students continue on to college, many experts believe an MBA will soon be viewed as a necessity, leading to even greater prestige for some of the country’s best schools. Before long, the best MBA programs in Asia may challenge the reputation of schools like Harvard and Wharton as the best business schools on the globe.

What do you think? Are business schools and MBA programs in China becoming competitive and attractive to Westerners?

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BlackSugarDaddy

MBA = Married But Available
safa !

Germandude

I thought MBA means: My Best Asset?

Gay Azn Boi

MBA = Master Bullshit Artist

linette lee

…MBA = Master Bullshit Artist……..

yes yes, We have so many in USA. Many people here in USA have the so called MBA and they want more pay than a regular college graduate. Meanwhile they are doing the same thing not much difference in job description. In fact when these “specialist” MBA people go on vacation, the regular non MBA people cover their position for them. So they are easily replaced.

Rene la taupe

Lol you are mad because too poor to pay a MBA. Stupid girl.

A guy

Someones mad about their student loans.

KAMIKAZIPILOT

Pretty true, a master’s degree really doesn’t open too many career doors IMO. Better to spend your time gaining relavent experience and certifications (if applicable) than go for a master’s degree.

Since you wrote that, then it is my obligation to say this to you
Use the Dethphones! Throw them at that guy!

Germandude

While I agree with “A guy” ‘s core statement, I’d like to correct you on sth: Afaik, mr.wiener is from down under. They don’t speak correct English. It’s called “Nice” after all. And use the Deftones. Throw THEM at wiener.

I would not lump HKU in with any mainland university. They are not in the same league.

Goteki

Could you elaborate a bit more? No malice intended with my post, I actually do not know much with regards to the educational standards in Asia. Cheers

donscarletti

HKU is an English speaking university, built by the British as part of the colonial system specifically to teach Western thought and has never been taken over by any mainland Chinese authorities like Tsinghua (American) or Tongji (German) were. It is about as Chinese as a Starbuck branch in Wangfujing.

The same also applies to CUHK, although it teaches in Cantonese and Mandarin as well as English.

A guy

It’s good to see that the moderators read what we write. It is good to hear that China is making headway and recognizes the deficiency. It still doesn’t change everything about how China schools children (lord knows that the US has it’s own problems), but it is at least a good step. If only the US’s efforts to make up for low numbers in engineering and sciences would bear the same fruit.

PS: The people in the Photo at the top aren’t happy cause of the MBA program. They just read this.

just make sure it doesnt get filled with rich foreigners and ‘legacy’ kids

John D. Van Fleet

Having worked in the MBA sector in China for ten years, I’m interested in this topic, but:
1. The Forbes China survey was a joke: a) a 16% salary increase over a four-year period would be scoffed at by the graduates themselves, b) salary increases are self-reported and unaudited.
2. The rest of the article is a cut-and-paste job without insight into the sector. The only quote is an advertorial from a b-school dean.
The topic deserves better.

A guy

Do you have any evidence to counter the claims made above?

Wu

I dont have any evidence to suport John, but I found those numbers to be different from what I have seen myself. Plus, they cherry-picked those stats, as we are all taught in stats-class. Hundreds of schools in the USA alone offer MBA’s, but a Harvard MBA is in a totally different class than the University of Indiana MBA…

I do agree with the later stats, 43% say the connections they made are the most important, 23% says the “brand” of their MBA is the most important. Only 34% think it was the skills they learned? Yes, that sounds about right.

So, why would China’s schools be gaining status? So young MBA’s can start making connections. Again, sounds about right.

A guy

Sounds believable. Thanks.

A guy

Just to put some numbers up here are the rankings that I could find on MBA programs.

The economist has the top 25 as all in Europe or North America.
The top 8 and 17 of the top 25 are in the US.

According to the economist the HK UST highest ranked Asian MBA ranked 84th overall (the economist uses a more complete grading scale to include contacts gained and salary change after graduation and the quality of the education)

The FT global MBA rating (which only takes into account salary upon graduation) has four of the top 25 being in Asia two in india, one in Singapore and one in China the above mentioned HK UST at #10

Of the rankings in Asia (older sorry couldn’t find a newer one) Hongkong had the 2nd, 3rd, and 7th while China had yet another ranking at 13th. Japan & Korea however had only one at 10th (this is accounted for probably by two factors one being the cost of living in Japan/Korea second being the fact that Japan and Korea have much lower income inequality making the eventual salary to cost of living ratio relatively low.) Australia spanked everyone in Asia by having the #1 and also 5 of the top 10.

So regionally HongKong seems very competitive, but it still has a long way to go to catch up with the US and Europe. The rest of China has light years.

If someone can find better statistics please do I have already expended a good 10 minutes on this and daddy gots to work.

Mainland China needs less plagiarism and less internet restrictions before it can develop world class universities.

Brett

They can call the schools “world class” if they want. None of it is going to help the students get jobs after graduation.

willie miller

This seems like a press release from Chinese business schools, maybe they wanted it published in China Smack because they think they might attract some students from the readers. Just saying what it looks like, if I’m wrong then apologies to the author.

Thanh Phú

Everyone knows this is a gossip site for expats to poke fun at stuffs, not a credible source for education ranking. Imagine telling your friend ‘hey, I selected this MBA program because it’s mentioned on ChinaSMACK’, hilarity ensures…

Munkee

This article is quite full of sh*t. Like John D. Van Felt pointed out, even a small shrimp occupying any management position in a Chinese firm would find a 16% increase in salary over 4 years a pity.

As for the dean of Guanghua, I really hope that he has other revolutionary teaching techniques such as lectures with ppt presentations or group assignments to promote the excellence of his schoold. Seriously, even a shit bachelor in management would propose case study to work on to its students.

Chinese universities are just as BS as the rest of the education system. As long as a political agenda will dominate the content of the teaching, there is not much hope for change. Not to mention innovation and research: like Thinkblue said it, plagiarism is not a big concern, nor rigorous approach – I have personally seen master students use Wikipedia definitions in their papers.

To me, the increase in success of such programs in China can only be explained by external factors:

– more students graduate from college, so a larger number of educated people will undertake an MBA to distinguish themselves from the mass,

– Chinese MBA start from scratch, so they can only go up,

– the economy is booming, hence the salary increase, especially for educated workforce, even though they may actually not be as qualified in China as in the West.

was this written by Xinhua????

I’ve got a degree in Chinese from Sichuan University and am an MBA student at a top 20 US school. First, about 7% of the students here are from China or Taiwan. Second the quality of education isn’t even close. Munkee got it right. The goal of the Chinese education is political, with practical much later. the US MBA isn’t perfect, but light years away from anything the mainland will offer anytime soon.

Michael Larsen

Can only agree with both both of the comments. From my own experience studying in Chinese university, it is very backwards, only focusing on passing exams (which are very far from the real world). This is what I like about my education at a top university in Denmark, there is a huge focus on lectures that are applied to real life. You are not only expected to excel academically, but also in terms of activity in NGO, student job, politics or entrepreneurship.

STOP ADVERTISING

Given that it is obvious CHINASMACK took money to show a bunch of content on Chinese-European relationships from the ‘Delegation of the European Union to China’ – this article smells like more content that comes from a sponsor. TRULY DISAPPOINTING shift by CHINASMACK to become a marketing tool for those with money.

Beijinger in Beijing

Absolutely. This is extremely poor journalism.

Rusty

ChinaSMACK was never about journalism. It’s a tabloid that aims at attracting voyeurs and generate traffic. Comparing ChinaSMACK with Xinhua is comparing a vulgar porn website to playboy.

A guy

One shows you stuff that’s interesting, the other force feeds you chauvinism dolled up as if it were respectable leaving you bored with your needs unfulfilled.

I think that analogy works.

Kai

LoL, that’s a good analogy, though I think this post is more Xinhua-ish than like the previous post that is more vulgar porn website-ish. The topic of this one is a bit more “serious” than a naked guy holding roasted chickens.

Rusty

Well. CS might be trying to raise to the level of a real journalistic website, even if the info is actually made up. But if CS stopped talking about death and sex, 90% of the current “crowd” would be taking their business elsewhere. I probably first came to this website because of an intriguing sex-post title. Now I’m just curious about what the foreigners comment, having a platform to look down on China behind a tainted window.

A guy

Not all of us want to criticize China. I come here to talk with other people who have a connection whatever that may be to this country. Some people have an incredibly negative relationship with China, some have an overly nationalistic one, some have a simple fascination with the culture, but most have a love hate relationship that can only come from long term contact with a culture. This site is about the meeting of two cultures without any filter, and all the horror and humor that brings. If you made a site called 美國摑 I would go there to discuss America with snarky Chinese nerds too. It would probably be a great chance to improve my writing ability in Chinese and learn.

The thing that makes this site so crass and critical is the fact that this is the internet and people are generally dicks on the internet, be they Chinese or English speakers.

Kai

LoL, I don’t think you need to worry about death and sex ever disappearing from cS. So long as those sort of stories command the attention of Chinese netizens, cS will end up translating them. Sex and violence and all of those “negative” things always get a disproportionate amount of attention from people, here and everywhere else. It’s the human condition.

Personally (and this is a bit of a tangent), I think the reason why people are drawn to these things is because being able to hate or look down on others makes them feel better about themselves on some level. There’s this sociological phenomenon where people find it easier to define their identities by what they disagree with than what they believe in. It’s easier to say “I’m not like them” than it is to say “I’m like this”. It’s easier to disassociate, because you’re not holding yourself accountable to something. It’s easier to say “I hate/disagree with conservatives/liberals” than to say “these are the principles and beliefs I have” because you may be held accountable to whether or not you live up to the latter.

About the comments that irk us, whether from cS commenters or translated Chinese ones, what @A guy said here is pretty true, its easy for people from anywhere to be dicks on the internet. But every so often you get a good discussion with sincere people and that gives you some hope for the internet as a tool for the exchange of ideas.

Edit: I forgot to say, I don’t think we’re trying to “raise” to the level of a “real journalistic” website. We are what we are, as explained on our About and FAQ pages, and accept that some people find value in what we do, and that may be different from what others find, while still others simply hate us for doing whatever they think it is we’re doing. Shrug.

Rusty

Nothing to do with the attraction of Chinese netizens, there are comments everywhere. 95% of Chinese forums could suddenly be talking about Buddhism for a month, during that time cS would still be dragging out cheap stories and calling itself a window on China.

Kai

Well, we do consider what we do to offer a glimpse or “window” into China. Some people find value in our approach while others do not. Can’t please everyone.

Rusty

ChinaSMACK isn’t a newspaper, it’s a tabloid. Tabloids use scandals to attract voyeurs. People including myself can’t complain about it as long as they continue to come see and generate traffic.

Kai

Again, we were not paid any money whatsoever for the Chinese-European relationships series or for this post. We’d be incredibly proud if an organization as large as the European Union actually offered us money but they didn’t. Instead, the simple fact is that someone put us in touch with the director who showed us the videos and we found it relevant to our site’s content and audience (not you perhaps but other parts of our audience).

This is the same situation. It is a guest post and we felt what Abigail wrote was good for discussion and relevant to larger trends with modern China, especially with the minor scandal involving Chinese business schools and what happens in them that occurred recently last year.

I know this isn’t going to convince you. You have your conspiracy theory and nothing we say is going to change it, so this is just to set the record straight publicly for the benefit of others, even though we know some will still choose to believe you over us. We still want to defend our honor against false accusations.

We don’t apologize for running advertising on our website to support our operations. It isn’t cheap keeping all of this going. However, we will never run advertorials that are topically irrelevant. We are a bridge blog and the intersection of China and the rest of the world has always been a theme. This guest post provides exposure for Abigail just as the Chinese-European series provided exposure for Jason Wong just as the Hong Kong real estate tycoon feature did for Time Out Hong Kong and countless other posts did for many other guest contributors like Charles Custer of ChinaGeeks or George Ding of The Hypermodern.

We also run contest posts where we agreed to give others some exposure in exchange for nifty prizes like VPN accounts or free tickets for our readers. Even with contest posts, we’ve regularly turned them away when we felt the exposure they were asking for was for something that we felt wasn’t sufficiently relevant to our blog’s editorial and audience. One China-based art print startup wanted to give away free art prints for some exposure but we turned them away because their selection of art prints weren’t even really “Chinese”. Our contest or giveaway posts are barters, we got no money.

We get offers for guest posts regularly because we’re a large website with a large audience, and we’ve turned away all of them away unless what they’re offering is topically relevant and offers something to our fans. If the guest post is compelling but not our standard editorial format, we place them in their own categories (Features, More, etc. rather than Stories, Pictures, Video, etc.) so they aren’t confused. This policy has never changed and will not change.

We DO have advertising for Hong Kong University (and Chinese University of Hong Kong), which many of you may have noticed in our sidebar advertising slot. We WERE paid for that just like we get paid for any non-house advertising in those slots. However, this article is completely independent from their advertising, promoting neither them nor Stanford, Harvard, or Wharton. We’re not trying to pull a fast one on you or anyone else.

If you guys have any further questions, feel free to ask them. I will answer you with what I know or can find out as long as you’re willing to be sincere and civil with me.

A guy

Thank you for that. Even if it had been an ad it still was relevant with recent posts. In the last post we had a heated argument about this very topic, and if it had been an advertisement it would have been some of the most impressive placement. The kind of thing that advertising majors would cream their pants over.

Keep up the good work CS.

donkeykong

An MBA in China is the same as any other university degree in China, absolutely worthless outside of China.

Kai

The article sounds like people are getting them because they think it’ll benefit them in doing business in or with China, and suggests that they’ll become more than worthless in the future. What do you think?

donkeykong

The majority of universities in China are only interested in making money, and education is a distant second in priorities.
I would be very happy to see the education system in China improve, but that will never happen unless education becomes the number one priority.
I think the talk of higher education is a step in the right direction, but only time will tell if the schools can succeed in providing a quality education.

MBAs are only worth taking financially unless you go to a top 10 program in the states or EU. The main value a program brings is learning from your class mates, top teachers, future connections and links with top companies. Third tier schools do not offer this in any way and a China program is worse than useless as all the best students head over to the US and Europe. Further third tier or second tier programs are nearly as expensive to take. Save your cash and pick up a Dummies Guide on How to Do Business you will learn more than what they are offering at significant saving.

Kai

I agree with this. Unless you’re in a legacy business where getting any sort of MBA is some line item prerequisite for career advancement and a pay raise, or if you’re going to the cream of the crop schools, the likelihood of a compelling and immediate high-level job position afterward with an obvious financial reward for the investment in the education is very questionable.

I think an MBA still has its benefits, but it depends on whether you think it is worth it. An MBA program will still give you the opportunity to make connections and build up a network of at least like-minded individuals. The quality of those individuals may skew higher with better schools but not every person who has gone on to be successful attended elite schools. An MBA may still give you advantages over other applicants for a job, and a Chinese MBA may be more than enough for a job in China that doesn’t require you to have an international education from an overseas school.

An MBA from a top school in the US or EU may definitely help with high-level job positions of an international nature in international companies, but I think there’s still a place for MBAs from a Chinese institution for those aspiring for a job that focuses on doing business in or with China. Is it worth it? Hard to say, kinda depends on your own situation, but I do think the central thesis of this article is entirely possible, that Chinese schools and programs will become more competitive and attractive as China and opportunities in China develop.

andao

I think it’s US News and World Report that publishes estimated earnings after graduation. Even for second and third tier MBA schools, the leap in average earnings from BA to MBA seems pretty substantial Maybe the numbers are all doctored up, but it’s not the universities themselves putting out these numbers, it’s a third party.

Daniel Tynan

Nearly every Chinese who comes to study in Canada tries to get an MBA. Once the market is fully diluted with MBA grads it won’t have much value. I’m amazed that someone would hire an M.B.A. grad to manage their business or company. . . what happened to working your way up the ladder? I’d take experience and expertise over a fresh grad anyday.

Kai

I agree, I have a bad feeling that MBA programs are like law schools, oversaturated to the point where the certification is becoming meaningless. Then again, I think that about undergraduate educations as well for much of the modern job environment.

Alexander

I can tell you exactly why a Chinese MBA or Masters program is appealing to foreigners over American universities…… there is not GRE or GMAT tests score requirement and the tuition is like 75% cheaper… just pay tuition and go to class….. what it costs in the USA to complete a BA degree at some major universities, you can get a BA,MBA and Phd in China for the same price…..

JP

And at the same time you’ve told us exactly why Chinese MBAs won’t be worth much…the barrier to entry is set so low!

YahLey

You won’t be competing with these Chinese, they have enough problems of their own (which most of you come to amuse yourselves with, to de-stress). You’ll be competing with the ones that are getting bachelor’s and MBAs in the world’s best institutions. These are the kids getting marginalized by affirmative action.

garbo

Universities in the US and elsewhere are quickly finding out that Chinese students can’t do the work required and can’t think for themselves. From what I heard there were many visa and university rejections this year. The standard of education has to be upheld. Just because Chinese students want to go to foreign universities doesn’t mean the standard of education should go down to meet their mediocrity. There are too many countries that have bright students. Chinese have big competition. And let’s face it if certain students don’t like foreigners why should they study abroad?

JP

The stereotype of Chinese students has certainly changed for the worse. When I went to school for undergraduate, Chinese students were generally seen as the hardest working. Having returned for more education, most Chinese students at my university seem completely unprepared for US university life. I’m not talking about language skills, either. Doing things like not plagerising, showing up to take tests, etc seem very foreign to these students. Professors have complained of parents of the students threatening them. With the rise of China we can be sure that this might become the new norm on our campuses.

icarusty

did you notice the part in the article that says the number of Chinese graduates increased in US unis? You can’t graduate if you cheat or don’t take tests…. tests that whites say don’t matter anyway, right?

Just can’t win with you hypocritical cunts

icarusty

what a load of bullshit. If they are graduating with an AMERICAN MBA (which is a massive step up from a normal degree), they can certainly put the work in and are more than capable of independent thought. Yours, and general white stereotyping of course has its own agenda of favouring white graduates over asian ones. Unfortunately the chinese do not see this mud throwing game and are not playing it, otherwise we would have a fair match. It’s all about rumours in this day of PR.

平凡人

So many people in China with MBA, even fresh graduates with less than 5 years experience going for MBA courses. Can they appreciate and apply what has been taught or merely a paper chase? Most of them use the MBA to demand for higher salary, that’s what I feel about current situation.

John

I’m detecting a change in China Smack. This piece sounds just like the propaganda fluff pieces the government owned media puts out everyday in the guise of news or commentary. Very disappointing and insulting to the intelligence of the reader. If I want to read fake pro-China headlines I’ll read xinhua.

A shift from a blog that when you read it you believe you are reading the opinions and commentary of actual live people – as opposed to government propaganda and fluff pieces. CS is no longer independent or edgy. And I agree, the change happened at exactly the moment of the letter from the “patriotic readers.” While at the time I though getting rid of the racism on the site was good, but since then CS has definitely changed its style. CS has been neutered, I rarely read it anymore and only felt compelled to comment because of the blatant fakery now going on with columns like this. I mean come on, what intelligent westerner actually believes a Chinese MBA is worth anything? Seriously? Its insulting.

icarusty

correction: a shift from every comment talking about how the chinese are shit at this, how they need to be wiped out, controlled by superior whites…. now to every OTHER comment

and if you’re missing the racist and china hating trolls, you really don’t have far to look. Just on the other article re: snowballs and lions, a girl calls for the genocide of the chinese race. But that’s acceptable of course…

Jose

No surprise China will produce the largest number of MBA’s and engineers in the world. What I want to know is how many of these are unemployed and how long it’ll take them to find a job in China???

Josh

“In 2012, the US intelligence community conceded that the country’s standing as an economic superpower will likely be eroded and overtaken by Asian economies by 2030. ”

Conceded as of 2012? This information has been known for over 10 years. Hell, I knew this in high school and I’m 27 now.

nachumama

wait, so we in the usa allow those chinese to learn our business method and then they return to china to teach it? wtf?

icarusty

whilst taking in hundreds of thousands PER STUDENT in the process.Business methods are cheap, you nicked a lot from the Japanese anyway

PaulGillett

All levels of education are going through a major revolution. Khan Academy, Udacity, EDx (by Harvard and MIT), Coursear (by a few profs from Stanford), and MOOCs in general will transform the way business choose to hire candidates.

Table Man Mao

Chinese schools have no standards at all

al in china

I think from what I have seen in the last 5 years of living here that education in China has two outcomes. 1) The schools make money. 2) The government programs minds.
It seems my university grads know about as much as a grade 10 student that skips school. They think MSG is OK. They think saccharin is OK. It doesn’t hurt people if the government says it doesn’t. There answer to everything is the same…..”but in China”…. I feel sorry for them. When I teach them something new they seem to think I’m not telling the truth. To me education is not about how high you got on your math test. I know that they need the highest marks just to get into a university. But the learning is very limited to “ALL THINGS CHINA” “In China we this…… In China we That” They are SO surprised when I know something about Chinese history, geography, political news, this is because they don’t know about my country at all? They are so surprised when I tell them I have built 4 houses of my own, fixed my own car, write music, play 4 instruments, been an electrical project manager, been a waiter, owned a recording studio…….they seem stunned and in disbelief! But it is not uncommon at all in other countries. So sad really.

DavidisDawei

allinchina,
i had a conversation recently with a Chinese girl who said she gained weight and was now 45KG and I commented “Oh, you weigh 99#, that is tiny”. She said emphatically with a straight face, “No, the conversion is not the same in China”. I could only muster a chuckle and move on.

Can you tell me where and why you’re teaching in China?
With all of that experince, do you hope to start your own business in China?

al in china

No not into doing any business at all really. I love the old of China. But I will head back in the next two years spend some time with my Grand Daughter.

icarusty

pray tell, what the fuck does MSG got to do with being MBA qualified.

al in china

Bully

icarusty

Ahaha bully….. all just words, and nothing compared to the insidious bullshit that white men have been spreading, both in East Asia and white countries, about our race for decades

al in china

Your a sick fucking human and I’d love to see you, the “word bully” run like a chicken from a Canadian man that won’t waist time on words to shut your mouth. Your kind can yell at woman but in fact your cowards in front of other men. Hope we meet some day. hehe!

icarusty

Let me get this right.You’re the one suggesting we have a “little run in” with each other, settle things man to man. Then you call me a sick human. Maybe you should look yourself in the mirror…. this is precisely what I mean by white men’s insidious “do as I say, not as I do” comments.

And I would happily meet face to face to sort things out, much like I had to fight off a couple of white guys (gave one a broken nose) in my hometown just because I had the audacity to answer back for them calling me a chink.

Oh yeah….

“Your kind can yell at woman but in fact your cowards in front of other men. Hope we meet some day. hehe!”

My kind? Gotcha! Not a racist, eh

al in china

Your “kind” refers to all human racists. I see no color. But if I don’t like you I will tell you. Now as for kids asking questions, I was one of those. Yes it’s a great thing to question your teacher. You must ask questions. I’m sure the “But in China we…..”Is a question to you but to me it’s brainwashing. So stop waiting my time and yours. Yes I said I wouldn’t but it’s too much fun!!!!

Li Shuai

Where are you from in Canada? and you mentioned your teaching degree, wife where is all this info verified?

I wont even bother giving my oppinion if its just another anonyomous.

Regards,

L

YahLey

You’re*. Waste*
What the fuck are you teaching to these kids? IN UNIVERSITY?

As for this post, you feign moral superiority until someone pisses you off then you play the “big strong white man” card and apply the “beta-male Asian” card so readily. You’re a racist bro.

You can barely wrap your mind around these words and then you get mad like an infant.

What would you do if he met with you? Start a fight? You’re a loser bro.

You probably don’t even lift. 6 plate max BP, 8 plate max Squat. Come at me and I will lead you to a state of cognitive dissonance the likes you have never experienced

icarusty

“You can barely wrap your mind around these words and then you get mad like an infant.”

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This is a great point. usually on white expat forums and discussion boards, it’s a white free for all, which of course leads to them taking the piss of asian men and listing their exploits of asian women. Unopposed, which furthers their confidence.

The moment there’s the presence of asian men to counter some of their views, their veneer of civility goes out the window, and the insecurity comes flooding in. It does give you an idea that all is not lost in the “real world”… if asian men actually got their act together, they do not have to see a flood of white men using and abusing their women whilst they go without.

al in china

hehe funny bro! Thanks for pointing out my spelling mistakes too. I love a guy that call me bro…..makes me feel all warm and fuzzy! Well back to work.

YahLey

I point it out because you claim you’re a TEACHER of UNIVERSITY STUDENTS.

I called you bro so you would feel warm and fuzzy while I insulted you to your face, buddy.

al in china

Never said I was a teacher of university students dude…..my students are young adult professionals.

YahLey

I’m sorry for the insults. These conversations are sensitive for all parties involved. I’m not defending icarusty, rather I’m defending that abstract idea of myself as a member of a group defined by my phenotype. We both are just on the same page going about it in our own way.

I too will probably only have a week or two left here.

Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

al in china

Thanks and I’m sorry too. Peace my human equal.

icarusty

When I teach them something new they seem to think I’m not telling the truth. To me education is not about how high you got on your math test. I know that they need the highest marks just to get into a university.

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You are contradicting yourself here. I’ve always thought of China is learning through rote and never debating things, it is EXCELLENT that they are questioning your teachings. They have a voice, they are not just taking it all in without question. But of course as a white man in China, you can’t help but be condescending.

al in china

Well my Chinese wife and friends agree with me. So sorry if it sounds condescending to you. Maybe you will say they are not real Chinese?

icarusty

yay, whitewashed chinese (of which there are plenty) agree with a white man!!!! Progress!

al in china

It’s not progress idiot, they are just not racist! There is, in every culture racist people. In my country there are racists who will look strangely at my wife and I. There are some in China also but this is not what my comment was about you moron…..I speak out about issues in my country too and I do for example I support “Idle No More” which I’m sure will mean nothing to you as you are one of the many “But in China we…” closed minded, racist idiots that give the good people of your country a bad reputation all over the world. This will be the last comment I bother to wait on you. You won’t ever get it.

icarusty

You’re right, that particular cause means nothing to me. And how would I know about it? Yet another ethnocentric point of view from the privilged white male. “Ooh look at me I’m just going to get some causes out of my arse that no doubt this lowly asian who dares to answer back knows nothing about”…. and for someone who apparently has read my past posts, calling me one of the “But in China we” lot is pretty ironic. Giving the “good people in my country” a bad reputation all the world – no need to worry about that, the majority of whites seem to have a bulletproof reputation around the world, regardless of constant invasionary wars, similar acts of human and animal cruelty etc… it is we who suffer the longlasting repercussions of white media and hearsay alike (from the likes of you) that does the most damage.

But as I said, white arrogance, white assumptions. It has always been this way.

YahLey

Maybe it’s because they think you’re an idiot? Are you a mediocre English teacher taking advantage of your foreign-ness and trying to step out of your realm into preaching to these kids?

The average US 10th grader I knew growing up was a fucking idiot. What kind of professional are YOU when you mix up (they’re/their/there). God forbid you’re teaching these kids anything, LET ALONE English.

al in china

Maybe….ha this is fun all the racists come out to defend the country…..ABC’s too??? Maybe you should have been a CBC or EBC, then you might have learned how different racists exist together. Why can I not make a point about education without these non useful comments. Haters are waiting my time. I think it’s time to post somewhere when people can have a educated conversation.

YahLey

First off your points suck. It’s thinly veiled hate speech. If you’re genuinely trying to offer information, you’re not in a position to do so. Such is the way of the comment board.

An educated conversation is the last thing you want. If it is then you haven’t the simplest idea what one is OR most importantly HOW TO START ONE. Please read again your original post. You have so far defended rebuttals on your position only with anecdotal evidence and “my wife is Chinese so my opinion is valid.” Also, “I’m a University Teacher so my opinion is even more valid.” I still seriously doubt the latter. You’re just a liar trying to feel good about yourself rather than actually understanding the issue.

btw I grew up in Vancouver, went to university in the states.

Canadians are indeed less racist than Americans I can agree with you on this.

al in china

Yes, and did you know Finnish kids start school at age 7, study and speak 5 languages, go to school from 9am to 3:30pm 5 days a week? Did you know their final scores are only 40% from writing tests and 60% from the projects they do everyday in class? Did you know that test scores don’t make you smart? Did you know that? Did you know the same students I am referring to, that 85% told me they cheated on there exams in collage? Did you know they told me they could buy the test answers from the teacher before the test? Of course you know that right? Out.

YahLey

What are you talking about?

The original point you try to make is Chinese university students are dumber than 10th graders.

New point: Finnish students are at the top of the world? My article just said that.

Also the particular tests mentioned in the TIME article are conducted by third parties done probably a few times.

Yes there are institutions popping up for test prep and there is a lot of cheating and buying of PhD’s. China’s institutions are young. This does not mean these tests are moot.

If you want other evidence of asian american success in education look at affirmative action debates. Look at UC Berkeley population ratios.

Where are you going?

Edit: This is all giving you the benefit of the doubt of all the Finland info you gave out. I have yet to see that Finnish students are HIGHLY PROFICIENT in 5 languages in a google result. An achievement like this is surely newsworthy.

al in china

Dude my spelling sucks! But If you read the point I am making it’s not that they are dumb. It’s that “they know about as much”! This means they are equal to, and I am talking about common knowledge, not calculus. But even that is not the point! “Money” “Brainwashing” That is the point. The other points are simple to understand. Students seem to disbelieve that MSG, saccharin can harm you because the Government says it’s ok!!! Don’t you get the connection? Out, I’m going to work.

Hello, I am an American graduate student working and studying in Shanghai. I am doing research on the Chinese College Entrance Exam. If you are a current college student in China please take the time to complete my survey. The link to the survey is above.