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I have absolutely 0 idea how this guy skates by with so little criticism. He has proven himself a horrible football coach and he needs to be fired. This team cannot overcome our OC and will never win as long as he keeps his job. Here are some of my problems with him (not in order):

1. Predictability.
He almost never runs the ball on 3rd and 2 or higher. When he gets behind or the game gets close, he panics and goes to the spread and uses it almost exclusively, even if it's not working and despite the fact that this team does not have the personnel to be consistently effective with this formation. He seldom throws the ball on 3rd and 1 or less (although today they did run play action on 4th and 1). Also, he tends to show or use his new stuff early in the game so he doesn't have any tricks to go to if he gets in trouble late.
His formations also give away the type of play way too often (run or pass).

2. Too much finesse.
Too many draws, traps, delays, and counters. Lack of balance in the red zone. Abandoning the run WAY too early, even if it's working. At other times, poor or no commitment to the run.

3. He hangs the defense out to dry too often.
No adjustments made for a tired defense, or poor adjustments. Too little emphasis on game management and too much emphasis on quick strike.

Besides these things, I also feel that he struggles to hide certain players' weaknesses and fails to effectively utilize others strengths. And we all know he struggles to make adjustments in game. Overall, he is a terrible coach and needs to be fired.

I agree, it's O'Brien. It's not necessarily the play calling even. The entire offense looks discombobulated, the spacing is all wrong, they can't get plays called in. They look like a college team out there, it's embarrassing.

Just 6 years ago Charlie Weiss' critics were sayigs the same things : 3rd & 1 ?
Let's go 5 wide .
I don't blame OC too much.Today Patriots tried to run aTE screen and TE was called for a holding.I liked the idea but not the execution.Must be O'Brien's fault.

I have absolutely 0 idea how this guy skates by with so little criticism. He has proven himself a horrible football coach and he needs to be fired. This team cannot overcome our OC and will never win as long as he keeps his job. Here are some of my problems with him (not in order):

1. Predictability.
He almost never runs the ball on 3rd and 2 or higher. When he gets behind or the game gets close, he panics and goes to the spread and uses it almost exclusively, even if it's not working and despite the fact that this team does not have the personnel to be consistently effective with this formation. He seldom throws the ball on 3rd and 1 or less (although today they did run play action on 4th and 1). Also, he tends to show or use his new stuff early in the game so he doesn't have any tricks to go to if he gets in trouble late.
His formations also give away the type of play way too often (run or pass).

2. Too much finesse.
Too many draws, traps, delays, and counters. Lack of balance in the red zone. Abandoning the run WAY too early, even if it's working. At other times, poor or no commitment to the run.

3. He hangs the defense out to dry too often.
No adjustments made for a tired defense, or poor adjustments. Too little emphasis on game management and too much emphasis on quick strike.

Besides these things, I also feel that he struggles to hide certain players' weaknesses and fails to effectively utilize others strengths. And we all know he struggles to make adjustments in game. Overall, he is a terrible coach and needs to be fired.

WW

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First of all, he has taken plenty of criticism on here both this and last year. But the trend is when the team loses he gets criticized, but when they win he gets praised. He has done a good job this year, improving a great deal from last season.

Your predicability point contradicts itself because you said he never runs the ball on 3rd and 2 or higher then you say you want to see them throw the ball on 3rd and 1? The team is terrible in short yardage situations, and definitely cannot run the ball on short yardage situations. Their backs arent short yardage guys. How do his formations give plays away? Makes no sense without evidence for support.

Too much finesse? The Patriots arent a really a run the ball down opposing throats type of team. When did he abandon the run? Today? Tough to run the ball when you are down by 10 points 5 minutes into the game and you cant get more than 3 yards a carry. Lack of balance in the red zone? The Pats have improved a great deal in the red zone from last year.

Hangs the defense out to dry? The offensive players are the ones on the field making the plays. No coordinator designs 3 and outs...

Your post makes no sense at all, you are blaming the wrong guy. The play calling has not been an issue this season at all and O'Brien has improved a lot compared to last year. In my opinion it all starts with the play of the OL. They should be the unit that gets called out.

I've always found it hysterical when fans hold coaches harmless for poor game plans, poor adjustments, poor playcalling, and poor results based on 'the coach didn't fumble the ball'. So based on that logic, coaches can never do anything wrong and will never be held accountable because coaches don't block, catch passes, kick punts, etc.

Clearly, some fans will NEVER question a coach no matter how bad they are and no matter how many bad decisions they make. It doesn't get much worse than O'Brien. BTW I thought that Weiss was a fantastic OC and I thought McDaniels was above average.

I've always found it hysterical when fans hold coaches harmless for poor game plans, poor adjustments, poor playcalling, and poor results based on 'the coach didn't fumble the ball'. So based on that logic, coaches can never do anything wrong and will never be held accountable because coaches don't block, catch passes, kick punts, etc.

Clearly, some fans will NEVER question a coach no matter how bad they are and no matter how many bad decisions they make. It doesn't get much worse than O'Brien. BTW I thought that Weiss was a fantastic OC and I thought McDaniels was above average.

WW

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No, the coaching can certainly be better. No question about that. However, to throw the entire game on the offensive coordinator given the amount of personnel and execution issues we saw on BOTH sides of the ball today is simply ridiculous.

I've always found it hysterical when fans hold coaches harmless for poor game plans, poor adjustments, poor playcalling, and poor results based on 'the coach didn't fumble the ball'. So based on that logic, coaches can never do anything wrong and will never be held accountable because coaches don't block, catch passes, kick punts, etc.

Clearly, some fans will NEVER question a coach no matter how bad they are and no matter how many bad decisions they make. It doesn't get much worse than O'Brien. BTW I thought that Weiss was a fantastic OC and I thought McDaniels was above average.

WW

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How can you even question O'Brien today when the team was down by 10 points before the offense even stepped onto the field? Your game plan is pretty much junk at that point anyway.

What would you have done differently today? O'Brien called the plays that finished in drops for the WRs, those would have been first downs if the WRs didnt drop the passes. Why question a coach when the faults were on the field, not in what plays were called?

I have absolutely 0 idea how this guy skates by with so little criticism. He has proven himself a horrible football coach and he needs to be fired. This team cannot overcome our OC and will never win as long as he keeps his job. Here are some of my problems with him (not in order):

1. Predictability.
He almost never runs the ball on 3rd and 2 or higher. When he gets behind or the game gets close, he panics and goes to the spread and uses it almost exclusively, even if it's not working and despite the fact that this team does not have the personnel to be consistently effective with this formation. He seldom throws the ball on 3rd and 1 or less (although today they did run play action on 4th and 1). Also, he tends to show or use his new stuff early in the game so he doesn't have any tricks to go to if he gets in trouble late.
His formations also give away the type of play way too often (run or pass).

2. Too much finesse.
Too many draws, traps, delays, and counters. Lack of balance in the red zone. Abandoning the run WAY too early, even if it's working. At other times, poor or no commitment to the run.

3. He hangs the defense out to dry too often.
No adjustments made for a tired defense, or poor adjustments. Too little emphasis on game management and too much emphasis on quick strike.

Besides these things, I also feel that he struggles to hide certain players' weaknesses and fails to effectively utilize others strengths. And we all know he struggles to make adjustments in game. Overall, he is a terrible coach and needs to be fired.

WW

Click to expand...

i dont get this commitment to run and abandoning the run concept ...whats the point when you arent able to run the ball ? you have to change things up. to his credit vs vikes and chargers he adjusted in the 2nd half and got the running game going so your assesment is actually off base IMO
Lack of balance in the Red zone - i dont know the stats but i think we have been much better in the RZ this yr ..certainly better than last yr i think .
regarding hiding player's weaknesses - can you give me an example ? same with utilizing strengths...who is not utilizing ?

First of all, he has taken plenty of criticism on here both this and last year. But the trend is when the team loses he gets criticized, but when they win he gets praised. He has done a good job this year, improving a great deal from last season.

Your predicability point contradicts itself because you said he never runs the ball on 3rd and 2 or higher then you say you want to see them throw the ball on 3rd and 1? The team is terrible in short yardage situations, and definitely cannot run the ball on short yardage situations. Their backs arent short yardage guys. How do his formations give plays away? Makes no sense without evidence for support.

Too much finesse? The Patriots arent a really a run the ball down opposing throats type of team. When did he abandon the run? Today? Tough to run the ball when you are down by 10 points 5 minutes into the game and you cant get more than 3 yards a carry. Lack of balance in the red zone? The Pats have improved a great deal in the red zone from last year.

Hangs the defense out to dry? The offensive players are the ones on the field making the plays. No coordinator designs 3 and outs...

Your post makes no sense at all, you are blaming the wrong guy. The play calling has not been an issue this season at all and O'Brien has improved a lot compared to last year. In my opinion it all starts with the play of the OL. They should be the unit that gets called out.

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Your post is the one that doesn't make sense, not mine. If a team runs the ball 90+ percentage of the time on 3rd and 1, that is called a tendency. Very strong tendencies are easy to defend against. Because the Patriots have tendencies that are ridiculously strong, they are predictable.
Here are some examples of how BOB formations give away the play:

1. Shotgun, no RB= pass. He runs this formation way too often based on his personnel and success rate. He also tends to run it when the score is close or when they are behind to an inordinate degree.
2. He moves the HB up a yard on dives, but doesn't do the same thing in PA. He also runs to the strong side way too high a percentage of the time, but that's another story.
3. He changes the splits of the OL on certain run plays, which as a casual observer I can pick up. If I can pick it up, don't you think DC can pick it up?

As far as hanging the defense out to dry, if the defense was just on the field for a long drive and they are sucking wind, it's generally not a smart idea to run a high risk, high reward play on 1st and/or 2nd down, because if the play fails, that means the defense will most likely end up right back on the field. This is called game management.

What in the world makes you believe he has improved one bit this year? He has been horrible.