Long considered a lure for carriers, Apple's iPhone is now believed to be attracting a full third of those switching providers towards AT&T -- the highest ever percentage of converts since the iPhone was released.

Of the 13 percent of ChangeWave's panel looking to leave existing cellular providers within the next half year, 33 percent say they will move to AT&T when the time comes versus 24 percent headed towards Verizon.

The figure is a record for AT&T and is even higher than spikes seen in July 2007 and June 2008, both falling roughly in line with Apple's launch plans for new iPhones in each circumstance. Verizon's tally itself was a modest 2-point increase, but the carrier hasn't once passed AT&T in demand since the original iPhone was unveiled in early 2007.

Researchers also observe that AT&T customers are less likely to defect, as 9 percent are strongly considering jumping ship while 11 percent of Verizon customers are less than happy with their experience.

The same can't be said for the actual quality of service, however. Even as exactly half of respondents using Verizon were "very satisfied" with their service, AT&T could only boast 31 percent and is in a dead heat with Sprint and T-Mobile.

Verizon's network was perceived to be more reliable, too, as just 1.8 percent of its subscribers reported dropped calls while 3.3 percent reported the same with AT&T.

As such, the results create an unusual tension for AT&T where it regularly attracts customers but has a harder time pleasing them once they've signed aboard. It isn't as much of a dilemma with the iPhone as an exclusive, the analysts say, but the difference in quality could hurt AT&T's lead if it no longer has sole rights.

And while AT&T is rumored to be negotiating an extension of its iPhone exclusive until 2011, ChangeWave notes countering reports of Verizon possibly landing phone-like devices of its own, any of which could give AT&T "plenty to worry about" in the marketplace. Either way, AT&T and Verizon aren't viewed as the real victors.

"Theres one clear winner here no matter which way the Apple falls from the tree -- its the Apple," the report maintains.

Verizon's network was perceived to be more reliable, too, as just 1.8 percent of its subscribers reported dropped calls while 3.3 percent reported the same with AT&T.

The Teckstudian Research Group, Inc. has been telling us for a couple years now that Verizons dropped calls are 0.0% and that AT&Ts dropped calls are 100%. Which one should we believe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmcboston

And all those that will flock away once iphone is no longer exclusively with at&t.

By then they should have converted their 700MHz spectrum to 850MHz, increased general coverage areas, added more 3G and upped their 3G data rates significantly by then. However, Apple is still adding exclusive carriers in countries that are all GSM/WCDMA-based networks and have reportedly worked with different Chinese carriers for exclusivity which means that, so far, there is no evidence that Apple wants to go hog wild in cell phone market with carrier cooperation.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

the sooner Apple gets away from AT&T, the better. I don't know why it is such a burden for Apple to make a CDMA phone. Every other handset manufacturer who are 1/10 the size Apple could do it. Why can't Apple? The weakest part of the iPhone will always be AT&T. They've been constantly feed us garbage that they're building up their network and there are never any performance differences.

Apparently there are rumors going around that Apple is already pissed at AT&T because they were charging unlock prices for people who had issues when moisture leaked into the phone.

yeah because the iPhone has been out for decades now. Gimme a break....more APPL propaganda. Soon enough when ALT-A comes around and the big crash comes APPL will tumble with everyone else. Btw, subprime is nothing compared to the tsunami that's coming. Fools.

the sooner Apple gets away from AT&T, the better. I don't know why it is such a burden for Apple to make a CDMA phone. Every other handset manufacturer who are 1/10 the size Apple could do it. Why can't Apple?

Having the ability to do something doesnt mean you should do it.

You wonder why Apple cant make a CDMA-based iPhone, so Ill ask you a silly question, Why cant Apple make GSM-based iPhone? Of course, they do make one, but they only sell it to a single carrier in every country that has laws that allow them to. They now have 88 countries on board, at least 3 more coming this summer which have a single carrier tied to them, and yet most of these countries are completely GSM-based. Its obvious that Apples plans are more involved than just not wanting to make a CDMA-based iPhone, otherwise all these countries will multiple GSM-based carriers would all be selling the iPhone but they arent.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

the sooner Apple gets away from AT&T, the better. I don't know why it is such a burden for Apple to make a CDMA phone. Every other handset manufacturer who are 1/10 the size Apple could do it. Why can't Apple? The weakest part of the iPhone will always be AT&T. They've been constantly feed us garbage that they're building up their network and there are never any performance differences.

Apparently there are rumors going around that Apple is already pissed at AT&T because they were charging unlock prices for people who had issues when moisture leaked into the phone.

Apple can do it. They have a legal agreement preventing them. It won't happen at least until that agreement expires.

]
The question would be, why wouldn't Apple want the iPhone on Verizon in the US.

Why would anyone care about that question? No one here would claim that Apple wouldn't want a Verizon iPhone. But they have a contract with ATT that makes it worth their while to keep it exclusive. It's not hard to figure out, people.

Apple has exclusive contracts in every country that will allow it...
But for those countries that don't allow it they have multiple contracts...

Um, yeah, that is what I said. Are you going to answer the question as to why they would want to have exclusive contracts with a single carrier in an all GSM-based country that excludes every other carrier in that country (even when they partner with one of those excluded carriers in other countries) if your logic is so profound?

PS: If you are going to attempt to be belligerent toward me I really wish you’d formulate a decent argument for once.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Um, yeah, that is what I said. Are you going to answer the question as to why they would want to have exclusive contracts with a single carrier in an all GSM-based country that excludes every other carrier in that country (even when they partner with one of those excluded carriers in other countries)?

It's self evident. Apple signed most of those contracts knowing full well the popularity of the iPhone. So the only possible reason why Apple would WANT and willingly sign exclusive contracts as they have is because APPLE THINKS THAT'S THE WAY THEY WILL MAKE THE MOST PROFIT.

It's self evident. Apple signed most of those contracts knowing full well the popularity of the iPhone. So the only possible reason why Apple would WANT and willingly sign exclusive contracts as they have is because APPLE THINKS THAT'S THE WAY THEY WILL MAKE THE MOST PROFIT.

Can we stop posing these stupid questions please?

The question is not necessarily stupid. Moreover, you could be accused of exactly the same thing: it is equally self-evident that a profit-maximizing company would do something only because it will make the "most profit."

The more interesting aspect of the question is, it invites us to think about or argue why Apple thinks this particular strategy in the US gives it the most profit.

It's self evident. Apple signed most of those contracts knowing full well the popularity of the iPhone. So the only possible reason why Apple would WANT and willingly sign exclusive contracts as they have is because APPLE THINKS THAT'S THE WAY THEY WILL MAKE THE MOST PROFIT.

I think its self evident, but the question about Apple and Verizon gets asks so often that it apparently is not common knowledge.

Quote:

Can we stop posing these stupid questions please?

Id love to stop asking questions to what I think is obvious as soon as those asking the initial question start looking at the big picture.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

The question is not necessarily stupid. Moreover, you could be accused of exactly the same thing: it is equally self-evident that a profit-maximizing company would do something only because it will make the "most profit."

The more interesting aspect of the question is, it invites us to think about or argue why Apple thinks this particular strategy in the US gives it the most profit.

I said something self evident because that was the answer to the question. Pointing out that it is self-evident was an attempt to get people to stop asking ridiculous questions.

As for why Apple does it in the USA, clearly ATT makes it worth their time.

Apple signed most of those contracts knowing full well the popularity of the iPhone. So the only possible reason why Apple would WANT and willingly sign exclusive contracts as they have is because APPLE THINKS THAT'S THE WAY THEY WILL MAKE THE MOST PROFIT.

I don't think this was true for the original Apple/AT&T contract.
At the time there was considerable skepticism that Apple, who
had never sold a cell phone before, would be able to compete
with the likes of Nokia, RIM, or even Motorola. It is the perception
of many people that Verizon's doubt about Apple was essential to
Verizon's rejection of the iPhone in the first place.

I don't think this was true for the original Apple/AT&T contract.
At the time there was considerable skepticism that Apple, who
had never sold a cell phone before, would be able to compete
with the likes of Nokia, RIM, or even Motorola. It is the perception
of many people that Verizon's doubt about Apple was essential to
Verizon's rejection of the iPhone in the first place.

That's why I very specifically said that "Apple signed most of those contracts knowing full well the popularity of the iPhone." The original USA contract is a different case, but once the original contract expired Apple was in the same position as in other countries. They knew exactly how popular their device was, and the contract will certainly reflect the opportunity that Apple knows it is giving up by not going with an open device.

People here apparently think that Apple would get the same amount of cash from ATT if they were not exclusive as they do now with exclusivity. They must think they're smarter than all the dummies who make the business decisions at Apple.

I can just see it - Steve Jobs walking around, bumping into walls and mumbling to himself. Poor idiot never figured out that if you have something which is hotly demanded, you can raise the price for it. Some of the really smart MBAs on this board should tell him!

By then they should have converted their 700MHz spectrum to 850MHz, increased general coverage areas, added more 3G and upped their 3G data rates significantly by then.

There is no "conversion" of spectrum. The 700MHz spectrum will be used for LTE. The 850MHz, in markets AT&T has carrier license, will be overlaid as a second 3G carrier. The 850MHz overlay is underway and should be completed in most major markets by the end of the year. 850MHz should, and does in my experience, improve indoor RF penetration.

3G coverage will expand as AT&T increases the number of cell sites. User experience should improve as cell splitting relives congested nodes. Deploying 3G coverage is an ongoing and lengthy process.

AT&T is in the process of increasing data speeds to 7.2Mbps (theoretical), and is using the Juniper routers AI reported on to upgrade backhaul infrastructure. In the future, likely 1-1.5 years from now, AT&T will have rolled out 21Mbps (theoretical) HSPA+.

AT&T is also implementing a load-balancing system for all non-iPhone and non-BlackBerry Bold subscribers dubbed N-SET. This system will force calls and standby to EDGE in an effort to increase available spectrum for 3G users. Verizon and Sprint already use a similar method. This system is currently being deployed, but will take some months to become effective, as user behavior will be monitored before any changes are made.

Backhaul capacity is a major issue for AT&T (I'm in NYC, and I feel the burn!). Even after AT&T upgrades cell site baseband to allow 7.2Mbps, cell site backhaul in densely populated areas will be the rate limiting factor. Increasing backhaul capacity will be the single most difficult and time-consuming task.

Verizon is quickly pursuing LTE and the quality, coverage, and date of availability will surpass AT&T by 1-2 years. Verizon's investment in fiber optic (FiOS) will be a huge payoff as it gets set to deploy LTE. Sprint is pursuing WiMax and is working with Clearwire to roll out the service, currently as a competitor to DSL and Dial-Up and later as a cell carrier. T-Mobile is still in the process of rolling out 3G and is the weakest in terms of the 4 major cell carriers.

Verizon is quickly pursuing LTE and the quality, coverage, and date of availability will surpass AT&T by 1-2 years. Verizon's investment in fiber optic (FiOS) will be a huge payoff as it gets set to deploy LTE.

I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that Verizon wireless was operationally separate from Verizon the company that owns FIOS. I don't believe the FIOS investments will benefit VZW.

Even then it won't happen unless Vernon is willing to cede the
amount of control to Apple that AT&T has.

huh???

Apple approached VERIZON first. and VERIZON wanted to at least see a mockup of the iphone among other reasons. Vernon said no to apple.

FAST forward to right now and Vernon all but admits it made the biggest stupidest mistake that anyone in biz has scene in decades.

AT&T with the iphone is so happy. So many converts .

VERIZON LIVES a phone market where everything was working poorly. No one was buying smartphone back because they sucked. In a market where everything cuts at your profit,
while you try to build and light a nationwide 4g network. Spending billions doing this. in this market VERIZON makes profit selling data. And it was failing at that because the phones simply did not work.

VERIZON ceded the greatest phone invention to date . an invention that lets them charge 70 buck a month .

apple all but defined and created the smart phone market

VERIZON HAS HAD MUSIC ON THERE PHONES FOR 5 YRS .
they have failed so badly at this simple task . and apple came to them and said .... PSSST. we can show you the way . . we have this cool ......

the rest is history .VERIZON will do anything to get the iphone . ANYTHING .

Apple approached VERIZON first. and VERIZON wanted to at least see a mockup of the iphone among other reasons. Vernon said no to apple.

FAST forward to right now and Vernon all but admits it made the biggest stupidest mistake that anyone in biz has scene in decades.

AT&T with the iphone is so happy. So many converts .

VERIZON LIVES a phone market where everything was working poorly. No one was buying smartphone back because they sucked. In a market where everything cuts at your profit,
while you try to build and light a nationwide 4g network. Spending billions doing this. in this market VERIZON makes profit selling data. And it was failing at that because the phones simply did not work.

VERIZON ceded the greatest phone invention to date . an invention that lets them charge 70 buck a month .

apple all but defined and created the smart phone market

VERIZON HAS HAD MUSIC ON THERE PHONES FOR 5 YRS .
they have failed so badly at this simple task . and apple came to them and said .... PSSST. we can show you the way . . we have this cool ......

the rest is history .VERIZON will do anything to get the iphone . ANYTHING .

Well, there seem to be several people on these boards who share
your hope. Unfortunately, AT&T will probably do just about
anything to retain exclusivity. It puts Apple in an incredibly good
bargaining position. (btw, who is Vernon?)

There is no "conversion" of spectrum. The 700MHz spectrum will be used for LTE. The 850MHz, in markets AT&T has carrier license, will be overlaid as a second 3G carrier. The 850MHz overlay is underway and should be completed in most major markets by the end of the year. 850MHz should, and does in my experience, improve indoor RF penetration.

3G coverage will expand as AT&T increases the number of cell sites. User experience should improve as cell splitting relives congested nodes. Deploying 3G coverage is an ongoing and lengthy process.

AT&T is in the process of increasing data speeds to 7.2Mbps (theoretical), and is using the Juniper routers AI reported on to upgrade backhaul infrastructure. In the future, likely 1-1.5 years from now, AT&T will have rolled out 21Mbps (theoretical) HSPA+.

AT&T is also implementing a load-balancing system for all non-iPhone and non-BlackBerry Bold subscribers dubbed N-SET. This system will force calls and standby to EDGE in an effort to increase available spectrum for 3G users. Verizon and Sprint already use a similar method. This system is currently being deployed, but will take some months to become effective, as user behavior will be monitored before any changes are made.

Backhaul capacity is a major issue for AT&T (I'm in NYC, and I feel the burn!). Even after AT&T upgrades cell site baseband to allow 7.2Mbps, cell site backhaul in densely populated areas will be the rate limiting factor. Increasing backhaul capacity will be the single most difficult and time-consuming task.

Verizon is quickly pursuing LTE and the quality, coverage, and date of availability will surpass AT&T by 1-2 years. Verizon's investment in fiber optic (FiOS) will be a huge payoff as it gets set to deploy LTE. Sprint is pursuing WiMax and is working with Clearwire to roll out the service, currently as a competitor to DSL and Dial-Up and later as a cell carrier. T-Mobile is still in the process of rolling out 3G and is the weakest in terms of the 4 major cell carriers.

I was informed it was a conversion of the current 700Mhz to the 850MHz frequency band on each tower. If they are adding both, then all the better. Good info and welcome to the forum. It’s always good to see new posters with worthwhile information to share.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk Fan

Said my peace and be happy to sit on the sidelines again.

I double dog dare you, and that includes making a new handle when you decide to come back to the ring.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

I don't think this was true for the original Apple/AT&T contract.
At the time there was considerable skepticism that Apple, who
had never sold a cell phone before, would be able to compete
With the likes of Nokia, RIM, or even Motorola. It is the perception
of many people that Verizon's doubt about Apple was essential to
Verizon's rejection of the iPhone in the first place.

That was not Verizon concern . Verizon did not reject anything per se. Verizon was never shown anything ,. NOT EVEN A PICTURE . Verizon was asked to partner with apple. And they had to commit to this with no phone yet made and almost no control .

AT&T jumped at the chance to work with steve jobs , and quickly agreed to every thing apple wanted . Verizon never got a second chance. They had by mistake insulted steve jobs .

Please lets not act foolish here , ok
the whole world knows about steve
And the ipod sensation. And the software that works . It's not like verizon did not know all this .

Well, there seem to be several people on these boards who share
Your hope. Unfortunately, AT&T will probably do just about
Anything to retain exclusivity. It puts Apple in an incredibly good
bargaining position. (btw, who is Vernon?)

M y hope is that the iphone is open to any carrier that can handle it . I guess sprint AT&T And verizon in the Usa . . The iphone should be $40 dollars a month for unlimited data .And $20 a month for zippo data .

My spell check is crappy . And it rejected verizon and changed all my verizon's to Vernon . And I had to by hand change them all back . I guess I missed one .