I am worried about some observations this year. We counted up the number of nubby bucks and 1.5 year old shot in the neighborhood and it is real concerning. People are changing and I think it reflects in our numbers. For some reason - it may be the new rifle season and everyone wanting to shoot a deer with a rifle - but people stepped back on letting the little ones walk. The shooting and attitudes really changed, the numbers show it. I was shocked at the number of people who were managing brown is down again - it is like the old days.

Overall antler size was down. Population was up. I am worried that they are related. A lot of hunters are blaming the late spring but I have seen this before back in 2005/2006. The next couple of years will be interesting. The big bucks survived around us (or at least we never seen who shot them), the little ones died. Thankfully we had a boat load of little ones

"I was shocked at the number of people who were managing brown is down again - it is like the old days."

I am surprised you are shocked, actually. We are in a recession, jobs are scarce, and the cost of beef keeps going up. Is it any wonder people are going to make darn sure they put the venison in the freezer before they worry about future trophys? We had a 130 self imposed minimum on the land I bowhunt, so I am not against letting the little guys walk. I just know a lot of people who were very straight about the fact they were not going to eat a tag this year if they could help it, and they meant their doe and buck tags. I honestly can't say I blame them.

Last edited by pgchambers on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Respect - don't take it, unless you are willing to give it.Responsibility - don't give it, unless you are willing to take it.

pgchambers wrote:"I was shocked at the number of people who were managing brown is down again - it is like the old days."

I am surprised you are shocked, actually. We are in a recession, jobs are scarce, and the cost of beef keeps going up. Is it any wonder people are going to make darn sure they put the venison in the freezer before they worry about future trophys? We had a 130 self imposed minimum on the land I bowhunt, so I am not against letting the little guys walk. I just know a lot of people this year who were very straight about the fact they were not going to eat a tag this year if they could help it, and they meant their doe and buck tags. I honestly can't say I blame them.

The guys I know who do QDM are blessed with good paying jobs, and decent land. I noticed over the last few years, people who are struggling, living paycheck to paycheck are settling for whatever. Just my observation. I have no problem with that. Im kinda in the same boat.

Never even thought of that. Filling the freezer could surly contribute. Completely understand and support that if that is the reason

We have so many does around us, just wish they would hammer them and let the little bucks live. We have too many does. I talked to a couple of friends around me and they noticed the same trends with people again shooting small bucks and fawns. I think people are getting tired of eating buck tags for years waiting for the big one. With EAB gone, I think some are going back to the old days

Making me think. The largest buck I passed this year was a 130"- it is still alive, we saw it Tues. A few years ago I would be jumping up and down with a deer like this. I ate my tag, maybe I missing the point. It will be interesting to see what transpires these next few years.

There is no doubt antler size was down and the deer population is up in Waupaca. They could be related??? Hopefully the high harvest numbers keep them somewhat in check.

Bullwinkle, The idea that the need of meat (the primary reason to hunt since the dawn of time) might be why people were shooting what they can get, could slip your mind is why I don't hunt with bone hunters. It floors me that the purpose of hunting could be so scuewed that the bone could be more important than the meat! When I read"Never even thought of that. Filling the freezer could surly contribute. Completely understand and support that if that is the reason" I am so glad you approve of hunting for the purpose of eating! I don't hunt near you, so my hunting will not effect your herd, but I just returned from a family hunt with 5 hunters for 3 days, and I took the only deer, and yes it turned out to be a button buck, I would have taken more if I could. We eat everything I hunt! I am not trying to be argumenitive, but I am nearly inarticulate about this! To say the rack is more important than the meat would be like saying my fingernails were more inportant than me! It is an orament and a tool, but only rodents can eat 'em. And if all you want is the antlers, you could have them as sheds every year without killing the animal! With the economy the way it is, and costs of all kinds on the rise, in addition to that idiot in the White House, of course people are stockpiling what they can to take care of their own, I know I am. Can goods, dried goods, Frozen meats, Things that will keep. Because you can't tell what apple cart that post turtle in office will upset next. Hunting for meat is the primary reason hunting exists at all!

The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

The difference is my perspective in the area we hunt. My group saw well over 100 deer opening weekend and passed on more bucks than you saw deer - I passed on 10 myself. Shooting a deer is not a problem - in fact, it is very easy. We also have some of the best genetics and habitat in the state. That being said, if you want meat - go for it, I wish more would shoot does. I just dont understand why the 4ptr and 6ptr hit the meat pole when the does around us have more meat on their bones?

We are at a point around me that 2 year olds are easy to kill - now the 3 and 4+, that is another story. Last year everyone hammered the 2 year olds - first year without EAB, shoot away. This year they hammered the nubbies and 4/6ptrs. Now we had a bunch of them but not now - they are dead. There has been a change and I think we may pay for it down the road

The good news is it appears my friends and I held some deer on our QDM lands - we saw 20+ deer and small bucks in the fields all through gun season. Maybe, just maybe, we can attract the smart big ones to the safety and food we provide???? I know we have held a large number of does and this is always good. We will see, it could go in our favor. Everyone knows the deer feel the pressure and it came in Shawano county this year.

I came back to this thread with the intent of withdrawing my post. Primarily to avoid giving insult. I reread what I wrote in heat, and other than tone, could not really fault it, but you beat me to it. I know you guys invest a lot of money and time in your style of hunting, I do what I can to improve my small property for the same reasons, to draw in and hold deer. I was raised to not waste, and few things make me angrier than finding a headless buck in the woods or field. At least the meat could have been donated to the shelters or food banks. I know you are not one of these barbarians, but you struck a chord with me with that comment. Meat has been the purpose of the hunt since man first started using tools, Bone hunting is a spin-off of the origonal intent. Deer sighting were way down in my hunting areas this year, I can usually count on 3-4 deer in the freezer by this time of year. I have half a button buck(we share what we get), and I wil be back out with the bow soon. The need of Meat is the purpose of hunting, antlers are souvineers of the hunt. Good luck with your hunting.

The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

No biggy, I completely understand. My first 30 years I was in the same situation you are. Fortunately I figured out how to swing a good piece of deer property. When you put as much as we do into this sport, you can forget where others are at. In some ways, this is going to sound backwards, but I think it was more exciting when I didnt see the deer we do. I remember when I was in my 30's, my goal was to get a buck every year with my bow. I would hunt very, very hard and it seemed that each year I got 1 shot. It made me good. I was focused and typically did not blow that one opportunity and boy did it feel good to have those antlers in my hand.

Now it is so easy to shoot one of these - I get sloppy. I know if I screw up an opportunity another is coming. It does not mean as much. I have more fun with food plots than hunting. That is why the move to bigger deer is so exciting - creates a challenge. A couple of years ago, my son came back from an evening sit and was all mad. He said, dad this land sucks, I didnt even see a deer. I said you have to be kidding me. He went on to explain it was the first time ever he had not seen a deer. He was 18 and hunting since he was 12. He has been spoiled. I've spoiled him. I planted the food plots, I bought the equipment, I set up the tree stands - he didnt earn it, it does not mean much to him.

I always go back to my goals for hunting:1 - Safe hunt2 - Enjoy nature and time in the woods3 - See a deer4 - Harvest a deer

I did get a couple of does this year and had encounters on 4 out of 9 days for gun season. I hunted by the Outagamie/Waupaca border. I didn't hear lots of shots but I hunted from Wednesday afternoon on around that area. Kind of hit or miss some years for sightings. In 2008 I got a 4 pointer, only deer I saw that year. 2009, saw 6 deer but all were 300-400 yards away (shotgun area). 2010, got a 6 pointer and saw a couple other bucks but filled my tag and no other hunter with me.