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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 23:47:54 -0400
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To: thelema93-l@bitsy.hollyfeld.org
Subject: Biblical (Xian) Thelema/Agape
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In a message dated 96-08-18 Jeffrey Smith writes:
>>I was more expecting a challenge on my assertion that the axioms of "Love
>>is the law, etc." and "Do what thou wilt, etc." are in there. Does this
>>mean that people agree with me, or just don't care? (I suspect more of
>>the latter than the former :>). But if you doubt it, refer to Hillel:
>>"Master, teach me the Torah in one minute." "Love your neighbor as
>>yourself [from Leviticus]. The rest is commentary. Go and study it."
I can both reaffirm and challenge your statement Jeffrey... just so
you're not thinking that no one cares :
Paul to the Corinthians 6:12 & 13 --
"'Are all things lawful for me?'
Yes, but not all are good for me.
'All things are lawful for me?'
Yes, but I am not going to let anything master me. "
Sounds pretty wise until you continue reading and he starts in on promiscuity
and harlots and such Suffice to say, do what thou wilt, but you're
screwed if you do.
In Proverbs 1:32 -- "For heedless folk fall by their own self-will..."
and in 1: 11-14 -- ""...sound judgement will keep you right,
saving you from wicked courses,
from the self-willed speech of men
who leave the paths of right
to follow some dark course,
who delight in doing wrong....."
So yes, the Bible often mentions self will, and Do what thou wilt, but
only in warning and condemnation. If you have some passage that supports the
idea of Thelema in the Bible, Jeffrey, I'd love to hear it.
As for Agape, we know that it gained noteriety through the New
Testament as an idea of God's unwavering, unjudgemental love for mankind.
Xian Agape is, by popular definition, completely between God and man, and
cannot include any sort of sexual aspect. IMHO, this concept is decidedly
un-Thelemic with the possible exception of the "HGA". (I'm actually preparing
an extensive essay on the subject and can post it when I'm done if anyone's
interested.) But what I'd like to point out, is that in early Christian times
Agape was a word used to describe a sort of feast associated with religious
occassions.... I quote St. Epiphanius who describes the Borborites in his
book _Against Heresies_ to give a clearer meaning. Here, the term "love
feast" was the translation for St. E's term "Agape" :
"And husband withdraws from wife and says, speaking to his own wife,
'Arise, and have the love feast with your brother.
And when the wretches have had intercourse w/ one another in the
passion of illicit sexual activity, then they lift up their blasphemy to
heaven" (26:4:4 - 5).
**on a side note : Interestingly, these "Borborites", along with several
other "heretical" Christian sects offered up the male emission after
intercourse as "the body of Christ"... after which, it was consumed. They did
the same with the woman's emission. And you can well guess what they offered
as the Blood of Christ .....
I guess this was just my long-winded way of saying that while I agree
with you Jeffrey, that the 93 concepts *are present* in the Bible, that does
not mean that they were actually embraced as far as I can tell. You cited
"Love thy neighbor", but I'm not really sure that this is a true example of
Agape... I'm curious to hear how you think that it is...
Love under Will,
Elaine