Friday, November 16, 2012

PCC elections - a landslide for voter apathy

His Grace did not wait up all night eagerly awaiting the results of the PCC elections (or the Corby by-election), which is just as well since counting doesn't commence until this morning. There is a reported turnout of 15.8 per cent in Wiltshire - just 81,477 people out of a total electorate of 520,000 bothered to vote. Impressive mandate, don't you think?

Conservative Angus Macpherson was duly elected Wiltshire's PCC, and he explained: "There are several reasons why people didn't come out to vote: they didn't understand what the job is; they didn't know who the candidates were and couldn't make a judgment. And then, depressingly, there were a lot of people while we were out on the street saying, 'I don't (vote) for anything."

The Returning Officer in Wilstshire, Stephen Taylor, said some people had complained about a lack of information: "People have emailed and contacted us saying that they didn't know enough about the candidates in order to be able to make a choice and obviously that's something I have no control over," he told BBC News.
He added: "It would be good to have some analysis afterwards and see whether there's any lessons to be learned."

Well, His Grace can give a few, but they need absolutely no analysis:

1) Give people all the information they need to permit them to make an informed decision - the job, the candidates, their manifestos, etc., etc.

2) Don't hold the election in the middle of November, when it tends to be cold, wet and foggy.

3) Stick to a single, clear method of voting.

The third point refers to the fact that in some areas PCCs were elected under First-Past-The-Post; in others it was by the Supplementary Vote system, where voters express a first and second preference, and second preferences are re-distributed as those candidates with the least votes are eliminated (ie some people's votes count twice). Sound familiar? Well, it's closely related to the Alternative Vote system which the electorate comprehensively rejected in a referendum last year. So whose hair-brained idea was it to adopt this system for PCC elections? And whose utterly mind-boggling idea was it to elect PCCs in some areas by FPTP but in others by SV?

In the Manchester Central by-election (caused by the resignation of Tony Lloyd so he could stand in the PCC elections), Labour held the seat on a turnout of a depressingly low 18.16 per cent, which is believed to be the lowest in a UK parliamentary by-election since World War II.

The Tory line today, coming from Damian Green, is: "The measure of this policy is not the turnout; it's what the Police and Crime Commissioners achieve over the next few years." Labour's Chuka Umunna said: "It has been a total shambles." And the Electoral Reform Society has branded the Government's handling of the elections a 'comedy of errors'. It is, in short, a dog's breakfast, and the blame for this fiasco lies squarely with the Government. No wonder Nick Herbert resigned.

And yet this turnout is part of a wider declining trend, the blame for which must rest with all our elected politicians. The parties seem to win elections by promising heaven on earth, and when, a decade later, the electorate realises that they are still in purgatory, another swathe of disaffected voters views the democratic process with cynicism and disdain, declaring a plague on all their houses. This leads to a voter apathy and alienation, a deterioration in democratic participation and a declining turnout in elections, especially among the young.

If this decline is not addressed soon - with coherent strategies for increasing participation and inspiring programmes for engagement - we might as well be governed from Brussels.

Cranmer said, "we might as well be governed from Brussels." I'll take that with the huge sense of irony I presume it was meant convey!

Being the keyholder for my local polling station, I was chatting to the presiding officer at 10pm. 50 people out of 1,400 turned out. We might as well have asked for a show of hands!

There are several reasons why I didn't vote in these elections and why I refuse to take part in any other elections now:

1) You still perpetuate the ludicrous lie that alternative voting systems make people's votes count twice. The reality is most people know that their current votes don't count even once. So I no longer vote in any election where FPTP is used and there is more than 2 candidates - it's a waste of my time.

2) I don't want the police to come under political control (or even greater political control). There was one independent candidate standing, but I know nothing about him. I will not for the greater politicising of the police by grubby political parties

3) I want to register a vote that says "I don't want to play your silly games. I don't want to have 'play democracy' whilst all the time you give more of my more fundamental liberties to unelected, unaccountable eurocrats". The way I can best express my opinion through the ballot box is by voting with my feet.

Absention does not send the message "I disapprove of this election". It sends the message "I don't care".

If people really didn't approve of politicians, they would consistently vote to unseat the incumbent. Instead, since 1979 we have seen four consecutive Tory governments, followed by three consecutive Labour governments, followed by a hung parliament.

If this is what outrage at our politicians results in, the country is not nearly outraged enough.

@Gareth, er, how does electing one politician to replace an incumbent politician send the message "we don't approve of our politicians"?

I do care. So I'm not going to play their futile lose-lose game by their rules any more.

You're not going to change the rules of football by simply supporting a different team. But if the stadiums emptied and the TV viewing figures dropped the FA might eventually decide "this doesn't seem to be working any more".

It might be a tired cliché now, but rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic isn't fooling many of us any more. Some of us are abandoning ship and manning the lifeboats instead

Gareth makes the point:Absention does not send the message "I disapprove of this election". It sends the message "I don't care".

Well, I live in Avon and North Somerset and I wanted to vote. My abstention was solely down to not knowing anything about the candidates or their plans. Not a leaflet, not a knock on the door, not a town hall meeting in other words zilch.

The average turnout seems to be around 15%. Is this a mandate? After all, they will be appointing a Chief Constable, setting budgets and working out local priorities.

I did try online to find out more but it was like the famed labyrinth, at every juncture I was despatched to another trail and after six or seven of these attempts, I gave up. Would I have fared better even the help of some streetwise Ariadne?

I would have thought the answer was obvious. If MPs were unseated on a regular basis by a well-informed, engaged electorate, then they would have no choice but to a) pay attention to their constituents and b) keep their noses clean.

Abstaining keeps the status quo fat, happy and unconcerned with the interests of those they supposedly represent.

I do not live where you do, so I cannot comment. In Derbyshire, the four candidates each had a webpage. Labour and the Conservatives had each put up a local county councillor with no policing experience. There was an Independant who had been a Special Constable. Only UKIP had thought to field a candidate who actually had a policing career background. No prizes for guessing who my vote went to.

You never know, we could even return to a time when the Monarch appointed the Ministers [and ran the Government] and the Crown-in-Parliament made the laws."And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the "voice" of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness"[S Anselm to Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emeperor]. [italics mine]

A very good reason for voter apathy is the fact that people know that the U K parliament is essentially a puppet of the EC, and so has no real power (the candidiates/parties can promise something they will not be allowed to deliver, or something which they have to deliver anyway). They were - are - the architects of their own irrelevance, and will sink into a slime of their own making.

I'd make robut powers of recall a top priority, not just for MPs, but MLAs, MEPs, MAs, and MSPs. I'd also want to see real pressure put on the political class to seriously interogate just what the flip they are doing there as an existential question. There are all too many career politicians who know nothing else, and see winning elections as the sole purpose of being in politics - as opposed to winning elections to achieve firm policies mandated by the electorate.

---

On the subject of electing police constables, we didn't get it over here, and are not likely to any time soon as policing is a "sensitive issue" (aka we put terrorists into office). However, living as I do on an estate with a good many "social issues", as I believe they are called these days, I would not only give my vote, but actively campaign and shout from the rooftops the name of anyone who had a clear policy of putting criminals behind bars, was willing to actively assault the drugs trade, and had a zero-tolerance approach to anti-social thuggery. And if they got into office, I would pester them to regularly report to the public just how they were achieving that. Anyone offering to a hug a hoody or proposing community service as an alternative to custodial sentencing would be straight off the list.

We'd probably have to re-open the Maze to find a place to put them all, but at least that would solve the political dilemma as to how to use the site: i.e. as a prison.

Frankly, Manfarang, I would not in the least be surprised if they don't bother (if indeed it comes up) to hold one. The political parties in Northern Ireland have become increasingly cavalier about such things. Pretty much all of them have replaced outgoing MLAs without a by-election, so I suspect it is an understanding they've reached between themselves that the electorate don't need to be consulted.

The DUP ran a host of them a few years back, but the most recent raft from Sinn Féin were excessively cynical. The incumbents ran knowing they would step down after the election, and their replacements were put in, more or less for a full term without ever having been subjected to a vote. When one looked at the list of these incoming, it was patently clear that many of them were very young (indeed, I think one actually set the record for youngest person ever "elected" to public office). So in other words, fearing that an untested candidate might lose the seat, especially with the perceived threat of the SDLP, they didn't bother running them.

All perfectly reasonable - after all, why should the electorate be asked whether they want careerists straight from nappies running their lives? They should just be grateful, you know.

No post on the 'aggression' of Israel and the BBC's 'impartial and balanced reporting of the growing tension??

I noticed that the BBC was rubbing it's hands as soon as Isreal retaliated for the 1000+ rockets/mortars launched this year..forget the saville and McAlpine and it's own hoisting itself on a petard, it is back on solid ground, that of crucifying Israel with its reporting.

Heard 2 speakers involved in mortars, Palestinian and Israel..the Israeli raised concerns and wished peace on the Palestinian. The Palestinian refused point black to single out Hamas as this was not political but merely civilian (strewth, if it's not political what is the point of a political solution?) and refused any conversation with the Israeli.

We then have one after the other biased palestinians experts on blaming Israel and refusing to blame Hamas. One today even blamed it on one group getting everything and the other nothing. He needs reminding that Palestinians refused the mass of land given them whereas Israel accepted the pittance allowed it. There are only self inflicted wounds done by the Palestinians themselves who require something without nothing given.

When a court has rules on something which you rejected as a settlement very vocally and visually for the world to acknowledge, you cannot go back to the court 56 years latere and request they give you it now, as it hasn't worked out quite as you planned.

This is where myopia sets in so that historical righteous for the sake of truth is largely ignored for the sake of supposed justice for a people who want no truck with Israel, only it's demise, piece by torturous piece.

I truly loathe the BBC and any punishment it has coming will be fully deserved!!

Refusing to vote in elections does not damage the government. It delivers the government into the hands of small self-interested factions. Some percentage of people will always vote because they are essentially voting themselves an income. Your position is the equivalent of "If you don't do what I want, I shall hold my breath until I turn blue." The winning party will still govern despite the percentage of turnout. And exercising power is all the winning party really cares about.

"[W]hose utterly mind-boggling idea was it to elect PCCs in some areas by FPTP but in others by SV?"

Not very mind-boggling really, Your Grace. The electoral system used for the PCC elections was SV, which allows for a single run-off round if no candidate gains 50% of the vote. Where there are only two candidates there is, perfectly obviously, no way a run-off can occur, so the election was simply run according to FPTP. (If you want to be pedantic, you could point out that when there are only two candidates all electoral systems reduce to the same thing anyway, so it's all a moot point.)

No apologies for continuing on the subject of Israeli/Palestinan bias of our appalling BBC. It is always the Palestinian casualties that are mentioned first and by the time they around to mentioning Israeli losses the casual listener might well have turned off. The first mentioned always stays in the mind longer.

ESB+T is right. The Palestinians had their chance and blew it. In the 1940's an Iraqi General wanted financial and military help from the Arab League to beef up his troops to surround the Israeli borders. The money or the military help was never delivered. This is a constant story from the other Arab States. They do not want to help the Palestinians. Most sensible Palestinians now live in Jordan.

The other news is that during the American Election the murder and torture of the American diplomat in Benghazi was considered a non event by the BBC. Its pro Obama bias was amazing. Remember Obama did nothing to help rescue the diplomat. But now I read the BBC is considering it a major story again.

The only reason the Newsnight programme was put out with its implication for Lord McAlpine was to draw attention away from the Saville business.

Breaking news Ha! Ha! The Guardian will not support its columnist George Monbiot for any legal costs brought by Lord McAlpine. They look after there own, down there in York Way, I don't think!

The parties seem to win elections by promising heaven on earth, and when, a decade later, the electorate realises that they are still in purgatory swathe of disaffected voters views the democratic process with cynicism and disdain, declaring a plague on all their houses.

Cobblers. If you stopped the Tory grandees from fiddling thousands through their expenses (on the basis that the "party of law and order" ought to know better), turnout would go through the roof.

If this decline is not addressed soon - with coherent strategies for increasing participation and inspiring programmes for engagement - we might as well be governed from Brussels. Uh huh, Your Grace :)[Translation for non-ironists -:( ]

Paolo Freire had first-hand experience of the [Communist] Oppressors in SAmerica ... he clearly explained their methodology for cultural invasion, which involves prevention of communication between us "plebs" (as we have come to know our unworthy selves) and our self-appointed Lords of all They Survey.

Freire of course did not treat of election fraud. That, though, is the reason why I don't vote: I see the sham as just another way of blocking Vox Populi. For starters, I have no confidence in the counting systems (which will be even less trustworthy once they're supervised by "elected," politicised, police). Then there are small matters like candidate selection, postal votes, votes by dead people, votes by illegal immigrants, votes by people who don't exist, et cetera, ad infinitum. Then there's the little matter of there being no difference between the parties and their obfuscations ... and the fact that they are merely rubber-stampers for ... oh my gosh, brussels (?sp).

To wit, since they make idiots of us whatever we do, why pay into their delusions by struggling to the polls?______________

PS: "Apathy," another of their labels, is of course a misnomer that contributes towards re-inscription and deconstruction of English.It's not that we don't care ........ [[like David @ 10:29, I recommend the Harrogate Agenda]]

I say Archbishop, you’re slightly wrong on the mandate in Wiltshire, old chap. You see, the mandate there was actually 100%. We know this because 16% exercised their democratic right to vote, while 84% exercised their democratic right NOT to vote. Nobody was denied a vote apart from prisoners, the insane, and the underage. Anybody who wished could have spoilt their paper.

Society is driven by those who give a damn, not by those who don’t. The former ALONE should be entrusted with everyone’s future, and that looks about 3 in 20 of the population. Somehow, that really doesn’t come as much of a surprise…

Now, some people will insist the mandate was 16%. The more nefarious types being the Bolsheviks, and you know what’s coming next don’t you. Every time, those Bolsheviks will insist THEY and THEY ALONE speak for the silent 84%. They did this in Russia in 1917, and God knows they’ll do it here in the UK given half a chance. Bolshevik is a Russian word for ‘the majority’.

Watch out chaps, let’s not allow our undue concerns about apathy allow these rascals to take control, what !

In Gloucestershire, the Independent won, but not at the first count. He had to do it on the back of second votes !

One suspects the STV advocates in this county are Lib Dems. This sinister lot expect to pick up the second votes from both Conservative and Labour voters in elections, as Clegg intended all along. However, throw in a popular independent and anything can happen, as has done. Serves them bloody well right !

“Mrs Atkins […Conservative…] won the first vote with 28,422 with independent candidate Martin Surl coming second with 27,676 votes.”

“Neither gained 50% of the vote which meant voters second preference were counted.”

“The former police officer beat nearest rival, Tory Victoria Atkins by 4247 votes following a count of voters' second preferences.”

It's unfortunate that the pcc elections have been the brunt of the the general contempt for politics. The government have let the concept wither and been happy to see it get negative press. I believe that the idea is good and more accountability is better than less.In my neck of the woods the ruling party have won but have had a shock at the size vote against the status quo. If they had received 3% less on the first vote, the second choice would have been have forced an upset.

No bad thing.

As it is, the unfortunate populace will suffer more of the same, particularly those who deserve the most care and are the most vulnerable.

We don't need another level of bureaucracy and the police should not be politicised. They serve which ever government is in power.

Why is Cameron doing this it's not democracy what if we don't want a police commissioner? We weren't asked, and no doubt we will get one foisted upon us whether we like it or not and at great expense when what we really need is more and effective policing out catching criminals.

The salary must be good otherwise two jags wouldn't have bothered putting himself up for it.

He said "Blah Blah Blah..of course the number of Israeli's killed by extremists(no mention of who these are/were specifically) is 37 by mortar whereas the number killed by Israel was not proportionate or equivalent!

He appears to be implying that they were random shots merely to scare Israeli's into psychological submission or panic rather than meant to kill whereas we know it was low due to the precision or lack of it with those rockets. Suicide bombing shows that they always go for the maxim numbers of victims to be murdered!! It was merely the means that failed them.

A simplified version of what this council's aims are.

Johhny English: Now come again Mustafa, How much did you say you wanted for that barrel of oil?Mustafa: Johnny, I think we have reached an understanding!! *Chortles*

BBC, please rot in the deepest part of Tartarus with the rest of the hordes of hell, there's a nice institution!

Why should anyone get het-up about the biggest non-event in British political history. I have to say that nor for the first time I am in total accord with the comments from Blowers and having just heard Wyre Davies on BBC talk about poor palestinians being used to being 'under the cosh' from Israel - Jeez, I despair for the future of this country if the paragon of truthful news reporting is reduced to the level of a Janet and John book.

BBC now has editor of Arabs Today blaming Israel for an invasion of Gaza recently that was not shown in the world's biased media, Palestinians only want peace, it's the Jews wot dun it!..perhaps the BBC was so sunken in the saville etc mire that it missed that precious gem. NOT!!

I have now formally complained to Editor of BBC News, for what its worth, against their biased reporting..something I have never done before but Ernst is spitting feathers and they are not from munching on our friendly neighbourhood tiberian duck.

All I do is look at the headlines and read the news like everyone else does.

Dot #1:

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood President Mohammed Morsi (beloved "saint" of the Egyptian Arab Spring"), who is setting himself up as a "savior" for the Palestinians, sent his prime minister Hisham Kandil to Gaza Friday in a show of solidarity with the ideologically-aligned Islamist Hamas leadership.

Dot #2

For the past several days rockets and now a missile from "the direction of Egypt" have been flying through the air north into Israel. They are either coming from the Gaza or from Egypt. Look at a map and see where the Gaza and Egypt are located.

Dot #3

Who knows what will come of this but an ecalation in tensions and violence is a pretty good guess.

Blofeld old fellow. Caught the tail end of a BBC trailer the other day where the BBC was congratulating itself on being a world beloved organisation. Conveniently missed out “despite it’s news and current affairs being run by Marxist Leninist sympathisers”

When will it all end. Literally, when will they sell the thing off !

Inspector also rather annoyed that the presenters of ‘Match of the Day’ are now a black and an asian. BBC rather embarrassed to have white faces in front of the camera with this ‘Kick it Out’ campaign going on. That, in case you weren’t aware, will allow black footballers to wind up white footballers by mocking their private lives, with presumably the threat of prison if the latter replies with the usual time honoured and well deserved salute of F-B-C.

I'm very flattered that Cranmer has borrowed one of my titles for this blog:-http://juliagasper.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/landslide-victory-for-apathy.html

Bluedog suggests that Nigel Farage should stand in Witney against David Cameron. No good. Witney is populated by robotic voters, rather like the Stepford Wives, who are only capable of voting Conservative. They cannot be re-programmed, it is deep in the bios. They occasionally drive their cars into large posters put up by rival parties and then have no memory of it.

Why the escalation bt Israel now? After the USA election and before the Israeli election?

Rabbi Sacks was on BBC's 'Thought for the Day' on Friday morning. When he'd finished, his interviewer asked him to comment on the Gaza situation.

Sacks, unaware that he was live, said "I think it's got to do with Iran, actually", before Sarah Montague whispered: "We, we're live." The Rabbi's tone then changed and he called for "Continued prayer for peace, not only in Gaza but for the whole region, no one gains from violence".

The IDF are claiming Gaza is a "frontal base" for Iran. Both Turkey and Eygpt have called for restraint on both sides.

The situation is undoubtedly heating-up and Israel are justified in striking at terrorists.

It's all about timimng and there is a wider agenda, I agree.

There is no evidence the Government of Egypt are behind the strikes on Friday. "Egypt will not leave Gaza alone, and what is happening there is a blatant aggression against humanity," said President Mohammed Morsy. Egypt's peace treaty with Israel seems safe - for the moment.

Can one munch without teeth? I understand Matron confiscated yours for reasons that must remain private."

Dear bird

If you only knew Ernst's current dental deficiencies you would understand how hilarious that sounds, rather than matron confiscating his glass with said dentures bobbing inside them,they fell out of their own accord and at my age the tooth fairy rarely visits anymore so it pays more to leave the tooth under another pillow and pocket the £ without the fairy knowing. She obviously needs to go to specsavers as the tooth usually has a lead filling inside..Poor Tinkerbell?That old dog Ernst now has more bark then bite haha.

Ernst is awaiting a new set of munchers from Kings College dental hospital while me temps wobble and fall in me mouth like like an oversize pair of knickers on a flat backside. The trials of the toothless wonder that is Ernst?

Ernst

ps

I'd rather be tooth-less than truth-less.. :-) ;-)

pss

@17 November 2012 23:43

You say so much without actually saying anything in particular? Sheer Tiberian Class!

About His Grace:

Archbishop Cranmer takes as his inspiration the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby: ‘It’s interesting,’ he observes, ‘that nowadays politicians want to talk about moral issues, and bishops want to talk politics.’ It is the fusion of the two in public life, and the necessity for a wider understanding of their complex symbiosis, which leads His Grace to write on these very sensitive issues.

Cranmer's Law:

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1 (100%).”

Follow His Grace on

The cost of His Grace's conviction:

His Grace's bottom line:

Freedom of speech must be tolerated, and everyone living in the United Kingdom must accept that they may be insulted about their own beliefs, or indeed be offended, and that is something which they must simply endure, not least because some suffer fates far worse. Comments on articles are therefore unmoderated, but do not necessarily reflect the views of Cranmer. Comments that are off-topic, gratuitously offensive, libelous, or otherwise irritating, may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on any thread does not constitute their endorsement by Cranmer; it may simply be that he considers them to be intelligent and erudite contributions to religio-political discourse...or not.

The Anglican Communion has no peculiar thought, practice, creed or confession of its own. It has only the Catholic Faith of the ancient Catholic Church, as preserved in the Catholic Creeds and maintained in the Catholic and Apostolic constitution of Christ's Church from the beginning.Dr Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury, 1945-1961

British Conservatism's greatest:

The epithet of 'great' can be applied only to those who were defining leaders who successfully articulated and embodied the Conservatism of their age. They combined in their personal styles, priorities and policies, as Edmund Burke would say, 'a disposition to preserve' with an 'ability to improve'.

I am in politics because of the conflict between good and evil, and I believe that in the end good will triumph.Margaret Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher LG, OM, PC, FRS.(Prime Minister 1979-1990)

We have not overthrown the divine right of kings to fall down for the divine right of experts.Harold Macmillan, 1st Earl of Stockton, OM, PC.(Prime Minister 1957-1963)

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.Sir Winston Churchill, KG, OM, CH, TD, FRS, PC (Can).(Prime Minister 1940-1945, 1951-1955)

I am not struck so much by the diversity of testimony as by the many-sidedness of truth.Stanley Baldwin, 1st Earl Baldwin of Bewdley, KG, PC.(Prime Minister 1923-1924, 1924-1929, 1935-1937)

If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the military, nothing is safe.Robert Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury, KG, GCVO, PC.(Prime Minister 1885-1886, 1886-1892, 1895-1902)

I am a Conservative to preserve all that is good in our constitution, a Radical to remove all that is bad. I seek to preserve property and to respect order, and I equally decry the appeal to the passions of the many or the prejudices of the few.Benjamin Disraeli KG, PC, FRS, Earl of Beaconsfield.(Prime Minister 1868, 1874-1880)

Public opinion is a compound of folly, weakness, prejudice, wrong feeling, right feeling, obstinacy, and newspaper paragraphs.Sir Robert Peel, Bt.(Prime Minister 1834-1835, 1841-1846)

I consider the right of election as a public trust, granted not for the benefit of the individual, but for the public good.Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool.(Prime Minister 1812-1827)

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.The Rt Hon. William Pitt, the Younger.(Prime Minister 1783-1801, 1804-1806)