BFL is probably not capable of getting new money / to many refund requests and that is why they are launching this new product. To make sure all the late orders are still keeping their money at BFL instead of pulling it out.

At the other hand if this product is launched and shipping then the 65nm chips will be worthless very soon and this monarch will be the best even money offer that they can make.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

The BFL scammers have opened new pre-orders when they haven't even completed their current crop of orders

This is why it is wrong for them to do this. They opened started something, didn't finish it then start something else and not finish it either before starting a third set of BS preorders.

Essentially customer preorders are funding R&D for their next gen chips etc

Bullshit in my view.

Essentially this is how a ponzi scheme works. Find new investors to pay off old investors and the cycle continues until no more investors can be found or a large sums of existing investors pull their investment out which is what they can't do given "no refunds".

I have a July 15 2012 pre-order for 2 ASIC SC Singles and I still don't have them to this day. I am coming from a group buy upgrade so I can't really get a refund. I am thankful people with PayPal/Credit Cards were able to get their refunds.

Screw BFL.

If you want to sell your july 15 pre-order I will gladly buy them from you. Let me know.

I pre-ordered multiple ASIC SCs, and I've received most of them. The rest were ordered later, and they haven't gotten to them yet.

I will admit that I was contemplating ordering from KNC or BitFury, but now I'll have to reevaluate that position.

Out of all the hardware being offered, this new Monarch's claimed specs seem to be the most profitable, and I don't imagine any new hardware coming along and changing that. (KNC is also 28nm, but it's not a full-custom chip. BitFury is a fully-custom chip, but it's only 45nm, not 28nm. Both are just starting to roll out, and neither has any units in customer's hands. Avalon or ASICMiner could die-shrink, but I don't think that will help. They'd have to redo everything to accommodate a larger, multiple-hashing-core design.)

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

I'll bite.

Q: "Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?"A: Because you have no reasonable expectation of delivery of product in a timely fashion, if we are going by well documented history. Using history is an indicator, you might theoretically be receiving your orders around this time in 2014.

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

I'll bite.

Q: "Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?"A: Because you have no reasonable expectation of delivery of product in a timely fashion, if we are going by well documented history. Using history is an indicator, you might theoretically be receiving your orders around this time in 2014.

Edit: ... and I am detecting the foul stench of sock-puppet on you

First of all, why is anyone who doesn't say anything bad about BFL instantly accused of being a sock-puppet? I've seen it in other threads with other people, and now this. Purchasing from BFL isn't the popular thing to do around here, so it must mean that everyone who does it is just Josh trolling the forums? Yep, you caught me. I'm Josh, and I created this puppet account over a year ago, and I log in every day with (attempted) helpful posts just to confuse and annoy people. Is it working?

Second, I pre-ordered multiple Singles knowing they would not be delivered when expected. I didn't expect a 12 month wait, but I did account for delays and setbacks when I did my profit calculations. Here is no different. I would not be surprised to see a March delivery. As long as you're realistic and take their timelines with a grain of salt, I think it can still be a good deal. However, their announcement did seem to indicate that they are MUCH farther along in the development than they were when they announced the SC Singles. It sounds like they've already got chips designed and in production. As someone else mentioned earlier, they don't have to worry about PSUs, another setback in the current product line.

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement. By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches. Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc... So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in. And that's the nice business version. The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship. I would love to hear a different argument.

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement. By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches. Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc... So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in. And that's the nice business version. The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship. I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address --->1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement. By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches. Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc... So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in. And that's the nice business version. The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship. I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

Yeah I put it together. I sought input from the community (see old posts)

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement. By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches. Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc... So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in. And that's the nice business version. The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship. I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

Yeah I put it together. I sought input from the community (see old posts)

I choked on my tea earlier. It was very well scripted. It appeared to convey a lot of deep rooted feeling by yourself.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address --->1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement. By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches. Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc... So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in. And that's the nice business version. The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship. I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

Yeah I put it together. I sought input from the community (see old posts)

I choked on my tea earlier. It was very well scripted. It appeared to convey a lot of deep rooted feeling by yourself.

I'm actually not invested in BFL but I do have the block erupter making .003 BTC/day =)

But clearly there needed to be another medium of the PSA, it really bothers me to see Butterfly Labs involved with bitcoin in such a negative way.