Okay so they both get a flat +25% production bonus. They both basically get at +50% food advantage either through consumption or production. The Klackon get an uber planet which will eventually be replaced by Gaia and won't matter but the Meklar start out having auto repair enabled giving them a massive conquest advantage. However then the Klackon get a poor homeworld basically negating their production bonus well the Meklar maintain theirs on a theoretically abundant or possibly even rich (I've seen it happen where race without a rice homeworld just randomly starts with one) homeworld. so basically I'm failing to see why one would ever play Klackon when they have basically just a better option in the Meklar.

Uber planets are incredibly valuable, particularly since you get the tech far earlier than Gaia, and they are pollution immune. Gaia is still the best overall biome for growth, but the pollution immunity for uber planets cannot be discounted when considering a conquest playstyle.

Okay so they both get a flat +25% production bonus. They both basically get at +50% food advantage either through consumption or production. The Klackon get an uber planet which will eventually be replaced by Gaia and won't matter but the Meklar start out having auto repair enabled giving them a massive conquest advantage. However then the Klackon get a poor homeworld basically negating their production bonus well the Meklar maintain theirs on a theoretically abundant or possibly even rich (I've seen it happen where race without a rice homeworld just randomly starts with one) homeworld. so basically I'm failing to see why one would ever play Klackon when they have basically just a better option in the Meklar.

The traits are surely not final. For example the Mrrshan's only combat advantage right now is extended barracks(?) and not beam attack, which seems kinda weird.

In Moo1/Moo2 Klackon were the race that could get planets going the quickest because their population itself was productive while meklar had the most productive factories/their *developed* planets were the most productive. From what I can see here, the Klackon can produce population quickly through food, while the Meklar need fewer people to feed their population. I'm not sure whether this results in different playstyles.

I have to agree, Klackon and Meklar as implemented in this version are extremely similar whereas they weren't in MoO2. Cybernetic used to require interesting population management because the scientists will eat production too but that's gone now so they've become a pure food/production race. Between the cybernetic penalty and the unification bonus Klackon used to be much better at production (balanced by the uncreative science penalty) but that's also no longer the case. I'm playing Meklar right now and these changes have made them even better than Sakkra (and possibly OP) at early game expansion when that wasn't the case before.

I feel like if the Meklar consume less food they should probably also have a slower growth rate because after playing about half a game with them they can expand really quickly with all their perks and no draw backs. Haven't tried the Klackon but I feel early on that poor homeworld would be very annoying.

I have to agree, Klackon and Meklar as implemented in this version are extremely similar whereas they weren't in MoO2. Cybernetic used to require interesting population management because the scientists will eat production too but that's gone now so they've become a pure food/production race. Between the cybernetic penalty and the unification bonus Klackon used to be much better at production (balanced by the uncreative science penalty) but that's also no longer the case. I'm playing Meklar right now and these changes have made them even better than Sakkra (and possibly OP) at early game expansion when that wasn't the case before.

MC182, on 26 March 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

I feel like if the Meklar consume less food they should probably also have a slower growth rate because after playing about half a game with them they can expand really quickly with all their perks and no draw backs. Haven't tried the Klackon but I feel early on that poor homeworld would be very annoying.

My suggestions exactly. In this thread http://forum.mastero...r-race-variety/I gave the Klackon an umbreakable morale and slower assimilation rates to imitate unification. As for the Meklar, +25% prod, -50% food consumption and -25% population growth.

My suggestions exactly. In this thread http://forum.mastero...r-race-variety/I gave the Klackon an umbreakable morale and slower assimilation rates to imitate unification. As for the Meklar, +25% prod, -50% food consumption and -25% population growth.

Yeah after playing some more I think unless cybernetic/uncreative are implemented Klackon and Meklar both need nerfs to science or pop growth like you're proposing. Right now they are easily creaming the military races.

I would prefer cybernetic back though as .5 food/.5 production per pop with excess food contributing to population growth but starvation deducting from food stores either the missing food or production whichever is more negative.

The Meklar are described as a roiling sea of intelligences floating around a shared network with little rhyme or reason. The Overseer is essentially a prototype attempt to give them some sense of direction.

It would make sense to reflect that erratic nature in game by making them prone to not doing their assigned job, which would be reflected mechanically by a penalty to morale.

Game wise, it would curtail their early rush potential by forcing the player to either focus on early infrastructure with new colonies or cut back taxes and skirt the line of positive cash flow. But it wouldn't hamper their long game once later computer tech gives them morale buildings which would otherwise be redundant.

Yeah after playing some more I think unless cybernetic/uncreative are implemented Klackon and Meklar both need nerfs to science or pop growth like you're proposing. Right now they are easily creaming the military races.

This^. If I lose a game on hard difficulty or higher right now, it's because Klackon or Meklar were on the far side of the galaxy and managed to eat up so much territory by the time I encounter them, they have a *huge* numbers advantage when our fleets finally duke it out. I wouldn't want them nerfed too much (because they are a great challenge), but they are by far the most effective AI enemies to fight right now, leagues ahead of other competitors. The race that I think need a buff would be the Psilons, but maybe I'm just not playing to their research strengths well enough.

This^. If I lose a game on hard difficulty or higher right now, it's because Klackon or Meklar were on the far side of the galaxy and managed to eat up so much territory by the time I encounter them, they have a *huge* numbers advantage when our fleets finally duke it out. I wouldn't want them nerfed too much (because they are a great challenge), but they are by far the most effective AI enemies to fight right now, leagues ahead of other competitors. The race that I think need a buff would be the Psilons, but maybe I'm just not playing to their research strengths well enough.