I've heard plenty of people say that Payton makes Brees look better than he is, but I've never heard it the other way around.

So why did Brees put up similar numbers with Kroner and Vitt as HC? I mean if his success is dictated by Payton and not the other way around how do you explain 5000+ and 40+ TD "AGAIN" in his absence? I never said Payton played no roll in the Saints SB or Drew Brees having success. However the fact remains Sean was never stupid enough to leave his HOF QB who has the ability to run his offense with or without him. Hence a QB that makes you look good.

You can't just look at his numbers. Brees was NOT the same QB this season that he has been under Payton. That's not even debatable. There were games that he clicked and everything went well, but there were also games that the offense couldn't do anything at all. Brees was always scowling and mad, things weren't always going his way and most of the time, he couldn't figure out how to adjust on his own.

I don't think his success is dictated by Payton, but I also don't think that he is making Payton look better than he is. If Brees makes coaches look good, why aren't people clamoring to hire Kromer/Vitt as their head coach going into 2013?_________________

I've heard plenty of people say that Payton makes Brees look better than he is, but I've never heard it the other way around.

So why did Brees put up similar numbers with Kroner and Vitt as HC? I mean if his success is dictated by Payton and not the other way around how do you explain 5000+ and 40+ TD "AGAIN" in his absence? I never said Payton played no roll in the Saints SB or Drew Brees having success. However the fact remains Sean was never stupid enough to leave his HOF QB who has the ability to run his offense with or without him. Hence a QB that makes you look good.

I've heard plenty of people say that Payton makes Brees look better than he is, but I've never heard it the other way around.

So why did Brees put up similar numbers with Kroner and Vitt as HC? I mean if his success is dictated by Payton and not the other way around how do you explain 5000+ and 40+ TD "AGAIN" in his absence? I never said Payton played no roll in the Saints SB or Drew Brees having success. However the fact remains Sean was never stupid enough to leave his HOF QB who has the ability to run his offense with or without him. Hence a QB that makes you look good.

What?

Brees in 2011:

71.2% CMP%
5,476 YDs
8.34 Y/A
46 TD
14 INT

Brees in 2012:

63% CMP%
5,177 YDs
7.73 Y/A
43 TD
19 INT

These numbers are "similar" to you?

You do understand the definition of similar right?

Quote:

1. Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.

Considering the circumstances of bounty gate, two different positional coaches being HC, constant flux I'd say their pretty close. Any of you really going to sit here and tell me going into the season without Payton Brees was going to throw for 5100+ yrd and 40+ TD's? Give me a break._________________ 2015 Bird Watch: To many new faces to choose?

I've heard plenty of people say that Payton makes Brees look better than he is, but I've never heard it the other way around.

So why did Brees put up similar numbers with Kroner and Vitt as HC? I mean if his success is dictated by Payton and not the other way around how do you explain 5000+ and 40+ TD "AGAIN" in his absence? I never said Payton played no roll in the Saints SB or Drew Brees having success. However the fact remains Sean was never stupid enough to leave his HOF QB who has the ability to run his offense with or without him. Hence a QB that makes you look good.

What?

Brees in 2011:

71.2% CMP%
5,476 YDs
8.34 Y/A
46 TD
14 INT

Brees in 2012:

63% CMP%
5,177 YDs
7.73 Y/A
43 TD
19 INT

These numbers are "similar" to you?

You do understand the definition of similar right?

Quote:

1. Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.

Considering the circumstances of bounty gate, two different positional coaches being HC, constant flux I'd say their pretty close. Any of you really going to sit here and tell me going into the season without Payton Brees was going to throw for 5100+ yrd and 40+ TD's? Give me a break.

Eight points more in completion percentage. Three hundred more yards. .6 more yards per attempt. A 3.3 TD/INT ratio compared to 2.26 TD/INT ratio.

Do you think Matt Ryan and Eli Manning had similar years this season? Because that's the kind of difference we're talking about.

I've heard plenty of people say that Payton makes Brees look better than he is, but I've never heard it the other way around.

So why did Brees put up similar numbers with Kroner and Vitt as HC? I mean if his success is dictated by Payton and not the other way around how do you explain 5000+ and 40+ TD "AGAIN" in his absence? I never said Payton played no roll in the Saints SB or Drew Brees having success. However the fact remains Sean was never stupid enough to leave his HOF QB who has the ability to run his offense with or without him. Hence a QB that makes you look good.

What?

Brees in 2011:

71.2% CMP%
5,476 YDs
8.34 Y/A
46 TD
14 INT

Brees in 2012:

63% CMP%
5,177 YDs
7.73 Y/A
43 TD
19 INT

These numbers are "similar" to you?

You do understand the definition of similar right?

Quote:

1. Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical.

Considering the circumstances of bounty gate, two different positional coaches being HC, constant flux I'd say their pretty close. Any of you really going to sit here and tell me going into the season without Payton Brees was going to throw for 5100+ yrd and 40+ TD's? Give me a break.

So first it was Drew Brees makes coaches look good, now you're using the fact that he had 2 different coaches to explain his stat fluctuation? How can a guy who makes coaches look good depend on coaches to help his stats look better? You can't have it both ways._________________