RUSH: Now, Obama's meeting with the CEOs. This is being portrayed as Obama wanting to have dialogue. "He really wants to talk to these guys. He wants to learn from them. He wants to work together with them in order to come up with mutually agreeable policies, 'cause he's open to anything that will work." Ahem. Instead, what's gonna happen is Obama's bringing the guys in there.

He's speaking from a teleprompter and he's gonna read them the way world works. He's gonna tell them the way life is. He's gonna tell 'em what their future is. He's gonna let 'em say whatever they want to say and the meeting's gonna be over, and that's it. And what's he gonna do? If you wondered what he meant during the campaign by, "Get your revenge by voting," this may be it.

"President Obama is taking a hard line with congressional Republicans heading into negotiations over the year-end 'fiscal cliff,' making no opening concessions and calling for far more in new taxes than Republicans have so far been willing to consider." In fact, Obama is now claiming he wants to double the tax increases on corporations and the wealthy from what he claimed during the campaign.

Maybe not quite double, but $1.6 trillion.

That's the tax increase on corporations and the wealthy. This is the new tone, the new bipartisan spirit that he promised and what the American people voted for. "Obama is taking a hard line." So these CEOs are being brought in today to be told what's what. "Obama plans to open talks using his most recent budget proposal, which sought to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy by $1.6 trillion over the next decade...

"That's double the sum that House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) offered Obama during secret debt negotiations in 2011." So Boehner offered to play ball. We're just learning this. Boehner offered to play ball on new "revenue," $800 billion. Obama has come back in this new spirit of bipartisanship and a new tone that he promised us during the campaign and that the American people voted for.

He now says, "You know, screw that $800 billion, Boehner! Screw you and screw the $1.6 trillion now. What are you gonna do about it? I won! Well, you want a select committee on Benghazi? Go right ahead. Go, go, go, and ask for it. I already talked to Harry Reid. You think you're gonna get to first base on that select committee? Yeah, Petraeus is coming up to testify. You really think he's gonna testify against me?

"Ha-ha-ha! You guys keep on dreaming all you want. But I just tell you, you better get ready: $1.6 trillion in tax hikes. That's for openers, and then the next thing I'm gonna do..." If you go to the end of this Washington Post story: "In addition to raising taxes, Obama proposed to [cut] $340 billion from health-care programs..." Exactly what the Republicans said during the campaign! We told you: He's going to cut health care. He's gonna take it out of Medicare and Medicaid.

The Democrats said, "They're lying! How dare they lie about our president? He would never cut health care." It's his bill. He's cutting health care by $340 billion. All these "fact-checkers" told us that cuts to health care programs are a Republican lie, as is saving $1 trillion from ending of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's a lie. Those savings, if you even call 'em that (I don't even concede that), were factored in long time ago.

Even in this story, even in this story guess who is blamed for the current economic plight that we are in? Bush! George W. Bush is blamed even in this story. The reason Obama has to take these drastic measures is because of the irresponsibility of the Bush administration. So everything that you and I suspected that Obama would do is happening. Massive tax increases that will totally shut down economic activity.

This $1.6 trillion in taxes on corporations and the wealthy is in addition to the Obamacare taxes. "Obama has been pressing to let the George W. Bush-era tax cuts expire at the end of the year for the wealthiest 2% of the nation's households, a tax hike adamantly opposed by Republicans. But Carney suggested that even the revenue generated by letting those tax cuts end would not be enough to tame the national debt and..."

No kidding! Of course it isn't. Do you know how much money is raised by eliminating the Bush tax cuts? It's $824 billion. We're now looking, ladies, at our fifth trillion-plus-dollar deficit. So all during the campaign we shouted our lungs out, we shouted from the mountaintop, "You cannot reduce the deficit, you can't even make a dent in the deficit by letting the Bush tax rates expire! There's not enough money. You can't do it.

"In fact, if you confiscate all the money the rich have over a million dollars, you run the government for six weeks and then you're out of money. That's how much money we're spending. That's how much money that we are watching go out the door and how much money we're borrowing," and now the regime admits it! Jay Carney admits "even the revenue generated by letting those tax cuts end would not be enough."

That's why we have to raise them even more!

It's exactly what was said during the campaign. It's exactly what we said. But the bottom line is, folks, this has nothing to do with generating or gaining more revenue, because it won't. This is gonna shut down the engine that produces and creates wealth, which creates revenue. This is nothing other than punishment. This is the "revenge" that Obama was talking about in the campaign. This is punishment of the rich, punishment of the successful. Because "the rich," in his world, are defined as 200 grand a year and up.

Since you are not replying I'm going to assume you meant for me to explain rising federal revenue under President Reagan.

Since we are talking about income taxes we need to look at income tax revenue to the federal government. For reference I'm getting my data from this site.

In 1980 (numbers indicate millions) federal income tax receipts were $249. In 1988 federal income tax receipts were $413. That is an increase of 66%, not exactly a doubling of revenues.

Let's fast forward to Bill Clinton since he signed into law one of the biggest tax increases at that time. In 1992 federal income tax receipts were $476. When Clinton left office federal income tax receipts were $981. That was an increase of 113%, nearly double the increase of during Reagan's 8 year term.

Ok, income tax receipts did rise under Reagan, but was the cut to marginal income tax rates the cause? Highly doubtful. If you look at any 10 year period income tax revenue nearly doubles just through natural population changes and economic growth.

If you say you are for starving the federal beast and you believe lower income tax rates causes increased revenue shouldn't you logically be politicking to have rates increased in order to cause less revenue to go the federal government?

And as for tha Laffer Curve how do you know we are still on the right hand side of the top of the curve? If we were on the left hand side of the top would you advocate for higher marginal tax rates?

One last thing, if lower marginal rates leads to higher economic growth maybe you can look through this congressional Research Service report and address the fact that as income tax rates have been lowered the rate of GDP growth has gone down as well?

Hey HiTech . . . nice avoidance mechanism you have going on there. You haven’t dealth with the actual data at all and are just sticking to your talking points.

The facts, presented from a few different sources, are that there was no unprecedented increase in tax revenues under Reagan. If anything the growth in government revenue under Reagan was more anemic than in other comparable periods. But that shouldn’t be a problem because as a good conservative you should be applauding the slower growth in tax revenue instead of trying to proudly proclaim that tax revenues increased dramatically under Reagan.

I am also concerned that you cite Bill Clinton, who rode a tech boom that was worldwide, not just a fluke of some supposedly marvelous American tax rate policy.

Did I complain that you tried to use Reagan? Your point, that I have repeatedly refuted with hard facts, was that tax cuts increase tax revenues. No, they don't. They slow down revenue generation for the government as has been shown over and over again in this thread. Reagan cut taxes, Bill Clinton raised taxes and tax revenue grew more under Bill Clinton such that we were able for the first time in many decades run a surplus which George W. Bush promptly pissed away.

You sure say a lot of ifs, meaning you really dont know squat about me whom you are so quick to condemn.

Stop taking this personally. I haven't attacked you personally at all whereas the same can't be said of your posts to me. I've presented hard data. You've refused to engage that at all. That's cool and all but don't expect your handwringing to be taken seriously.

The facts don't agree with your narrative. It's up to you how you want to handle that.

If you think the facts I presented are incorrect than please post the facts you think are correct. And your continued assertions without evidence are not "facts".

You think you can goose tax rates right up to 100% and keep getting your take to go up, up, up?

I never said anything setting the top tax rate to 100%. Now who's assuming who's positions? Your post ^^ is called a strawman. I understand why you'd want to create a strawman since that's a lot easier to knockdown.

Thats where you are headed, you leftist troll.

And now that you're done with the strawman you go for the ad hominem. I have pretty thick skin so it's ok HiTech, I still like you. :hug:

About a hundred years ago Martins Latsis, the senior official in the CHEKA, (Extraordinary Commission, or the first Soviet political police) was also the theoretician of the Red Terror, stating that,

Bolsheviks “are not carrying out war against individuals. We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class. We are not looking for evidence or witnesses to reveal deeds or words against the Soviet power. The first question we ask is to what class does he belong, what are his origins, upbringing, education or profession? These questions define the fate of the accused. This is the essence of the Red Terror.”

82
posted on 11/19/2012 1:10:33 PM PST
by Covenantor
("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)

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