Reader Interactions

Comments

I don’t follow Jimmy Moore…but I do follow Jason Fung. Seems to me they joined forces because it seemed like good business/marketing. Fellow travelers…sort of. Dr fung has always supported LCHF and fasting….not so Mr Moore…and readily admitting that LCHF or ketogenic diets not always successful in treating diabetes, especially stubborn cases. But Mr Moore appears to have signed on big time to fasting.

I guess there is only so much promotion he can give to LCHF….needed to expand his horizons.

However, now that I have read Dr Fungs books and commentaries , I now think I understand why people on LCHF can feel like shit and need some additional carbs to feel “square”.

Reply link does not work in your browser because JavaScript is disabled.Reply

Hi Richard – can you explain further? I like Dr. Fung too and reading this book on Kindle and finding it pretty informative with great data – I know there is something I’m missing, I’m guessing leaning towards JMoore? – I never really ‘followed’ him as frankly I gravitate towards who look and talk how I like to look and talk – so I love reading you, Sisson, etc… also some hardcore keto people but if it works for them (and for me too although I openly interject regularly timed feeds of lentils, real sourdough, and cool taters a la free the animal guy) – I do know on a keto fitness site on FB I am a part of (before I went on a 1 month facebook fast) really has problems with him ‘overplaying’ the too much protein leading to glucose and chasing ketones instead of just getting in shape – to be clear this is a keto fitness FB page – not a whiny group of people pounding whip cream by the quart and whining about getting fatter :-)

in typing this out, I realize in my brief readings of Jimmy here and there – I found his write up and Paul’s response regarding The Perfect Health Diet to be pretty misleading (meaning he was doing good on the PHD retreat but wrote up otherwise) and I tend to shy away from evangelical types (though I’m not an anti-religion person)

All of Dr Fungs information is very accurately documented in the 28? part blog of fasting. This just puts it together in a convenient package to sell….and expands the market through the Jimmy Moore phenomenon. If you read the book, others pile on too. Called Fasting All Stars.

I’m restrained on hypercritical damnation here. Maybe it’s because I subscribe to fasting, which is not a narrow subject….and quite effective. It seems aligned with long tradition both spiritual and otherwise. Tried and true….not a contrived fad. It’s progress by elimination rather than “doing or accreting”. A good philosophy if nothing else….and a theme through Dr TAlebs books.

Fortunately, after the 10 bucks I spent on the fasting book, even though all the information is available for free on the website, I do not plant tospend any money on Fung or Moore. He has little additional to explain to me. Furthermore , he has engaged in polemics on the website which I find disingenuous and also emblematic of the habit of always fight the “last war”. But he gets huzzahs from his faithful about how is exposing this and that conspiracy of medicine and pharma.

With regard to fasting, his advice and the fact that he actually practices medicine and does not endlessly theorize or plagiarize, I give some credit.

Evidently you long memory includes some bad shit……and it’s not your style to let someone get away with it.

It clarifies…..the Paleo/keto/LCHF community has to some extent appeared to circle the wagons. I’ve gone back to Sisson, who despite his product promotions, is willing to moderate.

Reply link does not work in your browser because JavaScript is disabled.Reply

Some of these guys really bug me like Dr Aseem Malhotra, the British cardiologist who is absolutely on a sugar crusade and a huge LCHF’er. He’ll be running the NHS pretty soon or at least the czar of the sugar banning department. the fact is that people will tend to lose weight on LCHF diets but it is not sure fire. What is …..is fasting which is no carbs ….some of the time. Even then you have to be prepared to adjust your fasting regimen. In the fact the best thing is no regimen….there are just times not to eat and that can go on for a few hours or a few days. For some it can be a few weeks.

the bottom line….is that this diet industry is good money so lots of whoring. The practice of medicine, for all you uninitiated out there……has become a commodity and commodities are cheap. that doesn’t mean health care is cheap …since there are a lot more hands in the trough than doctors….who are now looking for better ways to make a living.

I was told recently by a very reliable source that up to 20% MD graduates at UCLA do not even go directly into the practice of medicine. They go into business, pharma, consulting, management, government. Anything to pay back debt and not have to suffer the grinding of seven more years of servitude in post graduate education.

Don’t worry though …the LEFT and Hillary are planning to help us all out with health care.

Would you mind checking whether my most recent message (save for this one) got filtered out as SPAM or noise ? It never showed up even though a second try at submitting it resulted in the “duplicate” post message, which means the underlying system swallowed the 1st attempt alright.

Thanks for checking. Well, not that I had any groundbreaking thing to say, just a side note about Sisson. It occurred to me a while back that the whole primal diet and lifestyle are mostly about boosting his testosterone level. That’s all there is under the whole layer of paleo reenactment / justification / fantasy : boost the testies to produce the master male hormone to keep up with “the art of manliness” :D A serious check at his nutritional prescriptions will reveal what this is about. Not that I blame the guy for that, it’s perfectly reasonable to try to mitigate the drop in T as you age. Now, whether it deserved a whole paleo narrative … I don’t know, it’s good for selling things I guess.

Having invested in Yudkin’s 1958 diet book This Slimming Business, I’ve already spent my 2016 diet book allowance. Jimmy is too late. By 2017 I will have forgotten his book.

Yudkin said it all in 1958.

-Count your high glycemic carbs (added sugars and starches) and limit them to 75 grams a day. Restrict them but don’t eliminate them.
-It’s all calories in-calories out:

“One thing is absolutely certain. There is no secret about weight control. You must lose weight if you take in fewer Calories than you put out. So far no one has ever found a single exception to this rule. If you can bring me an example where it is not true, I am prepared to be convinced. But it is about as likely as showing me an example of apples rising up from the ground into trees. Newton’s law of gravitation is no more certain than the laws of conservation of mass and of energy.”

I see a lot of difference in the type of calories myself.. if i eat 1000 calories of bread I will seemingly gain about 5 times that amount, but if it is 1000 calories of fat, I actually burn it better, realize much more and longer lasting energy, and might actually lose some weight.. so not sure how it can be as simple as calories in-calories out..

Moore was the poster child of LCHF and sadly morphed into the laughingstock of it. He initially lost a lot of weight like most people…perhaps it was CICO more than anything else, who knows. But he continually put weight back on and yo-yo’d. He ended up eating a an extremely high fat, mostly butter diet. It seems like he messed his body up badly. So I guess he’s now fasting.

That may be the best thing. The folks at True North (mostly vegan types) do long, medically-supervised water fasts and have cured just about everything. It seems like fasting repairs or resets many things in your body. Listen to or read Ray Cronise for more on that. In fact, you’d be a lot better of listening to Cronise, True North and various experts on the FoundMyFitness podcast than Johnny-Come-Lately Low Carb Fasters IMO.

Reply link does not work in your browser because JavaScript is disabled.Reply

I enjoy going back and forth with Ray on Facebook (before I banned myself from the site for a month, waiting for election to end) and he is kind enough to engage on messenger – I have a lot of issues with his approach, and in his defense (and I don’t remember the exact number), he is not out to help ‘everyone’, but 10000 people (again, don’t quote me but he mentioned A number on a podcast somewhere) – I am definitely not one of those 10000 – but that doesn’t mean I can ‘t learn from his experiments and writing – his eating in a post reproductive period may indeed lead to longer lifespan but I ultimately don’t want to live in a world where even a shard of animal protein is equated to mTor which leads to aging… I instinctively think there is some balance needed – non dogmatic real foods based keto, interspersed with a lot of fasting and resistant starches really works for me – and that is what I’m going to stick to – I do find both Jimmy’s podcast take on the boogie man of carbs super annoying, then again I also find Ray’s same boogie man of protein just as annoying as I feel (and know) that a plan based on just veggies with no added fuels (fats or sugars) makes me depressed just writing it out… but I do respect greatly that he just eats no meat or animal protein, and doesn’t identify with vegan – I have a feeling if the data showed that living on shitake mushrooms, chicken breast, and 7-up led to better health parameters, then he would do it :-)

I tried a low fat high starch style diet for about a month. While I did loose weight and my BG numbers where down (I’m insulin resistant). I felt very weak and hungry most of the time. My blood pressure went up about 10%.
I do better on a keto style diet. My appetite is under control and my energy is way up.
Some people seem to do better eating in moderation, some do great as vegans, and some seem to do better on a low carb keto style WOE. Denise Minger has an interesting article on this.

I know very little about Jimmy Moore….but what you say seems about right. Strict LCHF did not do the trick, especially since he started out LARGE and may have been very insulin resistant. It does seem like fasting, if nothing else, has the best chance at “resetting” certain molecular pathways.

Valter Luongo of USC found that in his research, but then ran off and tried to find a solution that “mimicked” fasting by eating (certain stuff), patenting, and then marketing. Snake oil…..most likely.

Thanks for posting this – I love listening to Dr Luongo on various podcasts – his approach definitely is gaining traction as he is gathering clinical data to use in concert with Cancer treatment – interesting enough – so is a prominent researcher from the keto side of the aisle

Keto is just another mechanism by which living animals adapt to (possibly radically) changing environments. Perhaps we can exploit this adaptive response in conjunction with other life saving measures. the worst thing is to “optimize” as that makes for vulnerability and fragility as the landscape of life changes.

Fasting, when done reasonably is analogous to exercise or perhaps HIT. It ship shapes up the metabolism, especially after chronic overfeeding .

The articles above are some of the best I’ve seen in integrating the science of fasting and it’s possibilities for general health and medical intervention. Even for me the molecular chemistry is daunting but I suspect it’s worth a look for any interested person.

Reply link does not work in your browser because JavaScript is disabled.Reply

When you are a low-carb-high(body)fat internet-hero undergoing stress, then it’s yes. And when it is even advised by a famous but dubious doc (Fung) because the 2 wrote a book about it that you can now buy on amazon, then it’s definitely a big yes, so long as you buy the book to understand why it is so.

Primary Sidebar

About

I'm Richard Nikoley. Free the Animal began in 2003, and as of 2017, contains over 4,500 posts and 100,000 comments from readers. I cover a lot of ground, blogging what I wish...from health, diet, and lifestyle to philosophy, politics, social issues, and cryptocurrency. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances in life. [Read more...]

Please consider supporting this Blog by CLICKING HERE whenever you shop Amazon. Costs you nothing but sure does help out.