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Grimgob wrote: "When someone has a crap list, I make a short post, usually along the lines of, "I'm not sure you understand how to play Orks," kind of like the one you got. Your list and expressed tactics for using it are fundamentally flawed. I can help someone tweak their engine to make it run more smoothly and get better performance and am glad to do so...

But your army list is like a car with square wheels, you've put sugar into the gas-tank, put in a $600 stereo with no locks on the door, and pimped it with 22" rims on one side, donuts on the other, and put hydraulics on the donuts to try balancing things out. I can't fix crap like that, I can only point out what a terrible car it is and how you need to go back to the drawing board."

After this post by Dash of Pepper said this about my Ork list and now that his list looks similer to mine, I do not post my army list anymore. Thank the Ork master of Dakka Dakka.

and if it were not for my bad addition skills at the end with kill points I would have taken best overall (best paint score I ever got, I'm so proud!)

Insults are not necessary or appropriate. -The Mgmt.

I'm pretty sure Dash said that before he knew how make an Ork list. His old lists were a total disaster that lacked any sort of shooting or anti-tank whatsoever. Playing against his horrible trukk spam was basically a turkey shoot.

Hiding your list like it's some kind of secret seems silly, but I won't reveal it out of respect .

To answer the other poster the recipe for quality orks is pretty straightforward these days: Start with deff-rollas, lootas a KFF Mek and at least one nobz unit with either Ghaz or a Warboss. Go from there.

Kevin, I missed you this weekend. I PM'd my list to the poster hours ago. the post in question was before Dash knew how to make a propa ork list but not before he had plenty of sheeple to gang up on you if you disagreed with him and it was to show a point of why I don't post them anymore. I dont post my list because of all the bad advice that goes around and all the snipping, but I'm more than happy to share my list on a more personal level. Orks rock!

Grimgob wrote: "When someone has a crap list, I make a short post, usually along the lines of, "I'm not sure you understand how to play Orks," kind of like the one you got. Your list and expressed tactics for using it are fundamentally flawed. I can help someone tweak their engine to make it run more smoothly and get better performance and am glad to do so...

But your army list is like a car with square wheels, you've put sugar into the gas-tank, put in a $600 stereo with no locks on the door, and pimped it with 22" rims on one side, donuts on the other, and put hydraulics on the donuts to try balancing things out. I can't fix crap like that, I can only point out what a terrible car it is and how you need to go back to the drawing board."

After this post by Dash of Pepper said this about my Ork list and now that his list looks similer to mine, I do not post my army list anymore. Thank the Ork master of Dakka Dakka.

and if it were not for my bad addition skills at the end with kill points I would have taken best overall (best paint score I ever got, I'm so proud!)

Insults are not necessary or appropriate. -The Mgmt.

I'm pretty sure Dash said that before he knew how make an Ork list. His old lists were a total disaster that lacked any sort of shooting or anti-tank whatsoever. Playing against his horrible trukk spam was basically a turkey shoot.

Hiding your list like it's some kind of secret seems silly, but I won't reveal it out of respect .

To answer the other poster the recipe for quality orks is pretty straightforward these days: Start with deff-rollas, lootas a KFF Mek and at least one nobz unit with either Ghaz or a Warboss. Go from there.

I stopped posting my lists outside of battle reports for the same reason. Most of the people that chime in don't contribute much of value. I now ask people who I know play a certain army expertly for advice as they give good feedback.

Grimgob, I went back and looked at my posting history out of curiosity. Things change, but if you were to repost the same list, I'd give the same feedback. So what? Plenty of people think my flavor of Orks is messed up and needs help, but it doesn't stop me from succeeding with them.

That is one of the reason why I never post my armies, or give advice on the Army list forum.

#1. To give any advice, you have to know the army really well, and there are only about 3 armies I would be comfortable discussing. I learned that lesson in 3rd edition when I played my Thousand Sons Marines, and everyone who never played the army was giving horrible advice.

#2. What works for you may not work for others. I have seen people have great success with units that I could never get to work with me, and I have had a lot of success with armies that people say can't work. There are so many play styles and local meta games and so many other factors, that I am only comfortable with making generalizations like "You need more anti-tank".

Grimgob wrote: "When someone has a crap list, I make a short post, usually along the lines of, "I'm not sure you understand how to play Orks," kind of like the one you got. Your list and expressed tactics for using it are fundamentally flawed. I can help someone tweak their engine to make it run more smoothly and get better performance and am glad to do so...

But your army list is like a car with square wheels, you've put sugar into the gas-tank, put in a $600 stereo with no locks on the door, and pimped it with 22" rims on one side, donuts on the other, and put hydraulics on the donuts to try balancing things out. I can't fix crap like that, I can only point out what a terrible car it is and how you need to go back to the drawing board."

After this post by Dash of Pepper said this about my Ork list and now that his list looks similer to mine, I do not post my army list anymore. Thank the Ork master of Dakka Dakka.

and if it were not for my bad addition skills at the end with kill points I would have taken best overall (best paint score I ever got, I'm so proud!)

Insults are not necessary or appropriate. -The Mgmt.

My favorite Dashofpepperism was his take on cybork bodies:

Give them all 'Eavy armor, and they have a 4+ armor and 4+ Feel no pain. However, I would urge you to drop cybork bodies. I would posit that an intelligent ork player will pretty much never be in a situation to *need* a 5+ invulnerable save...here's why. Your nobs start in a battlewagon and need no saves.

Got that? No "intelligent" ork player would take cybork! Well he was either wrong or has stopped being an intelligent player because every diversified nobz squad he's taken to recent tournaments has cybork. And yet he still goes on and on about how people copy his lists.

That list *doesn't* require cybork bodies - and you're not putting the words together in the right order to quote me. I said that an intelligent ork player will probably never been in a situation to *need* a 5++, not that intelligent people don't *take* 5++. In the link you provided, I went through great lengths to explain why that's the case, how other units in the army can deal with power weapon heavy armies, and how given a 27-29" charge range, the Nobs can decide where to be and whom to fight in what conditions - making Cybork bodies irrelevant.

That's the same thread where you actually *did* accuse anyone of not agreeing with you of only playing against stupid players, or they would know better.

And now I know why you and Grimgob don't like me. He took the introductory statement to a book-length article of advice about a particular ork army configuration and separated it from the relevant documents. You both have centered on a tiny piece of a much larger conversation and made that your all-encompassing understanding of me. I pity you two for your unwillingness to see the forest for the candy bar wrapper on the path leading into it.

That list *doesn't* require cybork bodies - and you're not putting the words together in the right order to quote me. I said that an intelligent ork player will probably never been in a situation to *need* a 5++, not that intelligent people don't *take* 5++. In the link you provided, I went through great lengths to explain why that's the case, how other units in the army can deal with power weapon heavy armies, and how given a 27-29" charge range, the Nobs can decide where to be and whom to fight in what conditions - making Cybork bodies irrelevant.

That's the same thread where you actually *did* accuse anyone of not agreeing with you of only playing against stupid players, or they would know better.

And now I know why you and Grimgob don't like me. He took the introductory statement to a book-length article of advice about a particular ork army configuration and separated it from the relevant documents. You both have centered on a tiny piece of a much larger conversation and made that your all-encompassing understanding of me. I pity you two for your unwillingness to see the forest for the candy bar wrapper on the path leading into it.

Based on my real experience in competitive tournaments, I prefer not to take cybork bodies.

Truth be told though, as my army has evolved to present me the best capabilities of taking on anything I come up against, I've actually....evolved past a nob squad....is the best way to put it. While its a good unit, and does its job very well, I don't use it anymore.

That list *doesn't* require cybork bodies - and you're not putting the words together in the right order to quote me. I said that an intelligent ork player will probably never been in a situation to *need* a 5++, not that intelligent people don't *take* 5++. In the link you provided, I went through great lengths to explain why that's the case, how other units in the army can deal with power weapon heavy armies, and how given a 27-29" charge range, the Nobs can decide where to be and whom to fight in what conditions - making Cybork bodies irrelevant.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that if your opponent is also "intelligent" they might not let you dictate 100% of how the assault phase is going to go.

Not necessarily dictating how the assault phase will go, but dictating who is going to assault where - that's readily done in....I can't give a percentage, but we'll say the vast majority of games. Anyway, this whole thing is off-topic; I only showed up because my name was being dragged through the mud and I was being quoted as saying things that are quite out of context.

Grimgob, Olympia, grow thicker skin.

Grimgob - if you don't like people telling you that they don't like your list (entertainingly even!) then don't post it online. If you think I'm wrong, look me up on Vassal for a game. Let me curb-stomp that random assembly of units you had originally posted. If you beat me, I'll make a public and humble apology for denigrating your list.

Olympia - I see that your country of origin isn't a native English speaking country, so I'm going to assume that you're not maliciously misinterpreting and quoting things out of context, and that instead you just don't read English so well. My advice for you: Get a second opinion from a native English speaker before doing the kind of things you've done, because you aren't understanding words assembled in a certain order in the method they should be read, or taking the appropriate meaning from them. Relax; I'm not out to get you, I haven't called you un-intelligent, and I'm not bashing you.

Janthkin wrote:Shoo! This is a thread about a tournament you weren't at, Dash.

Back on topic - we had TWO Daemonhunters players there. I haven't seen a Daemonhost on the table in at LEAST 5 years.

Do you think that had something to do with people wanting mystics for the first mission?

I don't think so - it was a father/son situation, and neither list suggested anything like optimization. I think they just wanted to bring fun lists! I played one of them in round 1, and we were greatly amused at the tenacity of his single 50-man blob w/Commissar - it ate a 'stealer squad completely, most of my 19 gargoyles, and a chunk of a termagant troop. The screen faded out on the Commissar, 2 sergeants, and 1 normal trooper surrounded by about 30 'nids.

Yeah, I got to play the guy with the 2 hosts (I brought 3 to an RTT last year...just to mess with peoples minds).
He popped right into the open space between his Guard blob and 3 of my squads.
No way I was going to chance a BloodBoil roll and shot him to death right away.

As for the 50 man blob...3 Vindis over 3 turns pretty well reduced them to a manageable 6 guys...but his cover saves were pretty good that game.

Life isn't fair. But wouldn't it be worse if Life were fair, and all of the really terrible things that happen to us were because we deserved them?
M. Cole.

Dash,
Your statements on cybork bodies are categorical so the context is clear--you believed, erroneously, that there was no situation in which cybork was needed. Try as you might, you can't fudge your way out of categorical statements. You further provided your anecdotal evidence that you had never encountered a tournament situational where cybork bodies were merited. You were not taken out of context. Why not just admit that you grew as a player and realized the error of your ways, both on the efficacy of cybork bodies and the power of diversified nobz? Pity, though, that we won't see the ork lists from this tournament.

Dashofpepper wrote: Olympia - I see that your country of origin isn't a native English speaking country, so I'm going to assume that you're not maliciously misinterpreting and quoting things out of context, and that instead you just don't read English so well. My advice for you: Get a second opinion from a native English speaker before doing the kind of things you've done, because you aren't understanding words assembled in a certain order in the method they should be read, or taking the appropriate meaning from them. Relax; I'm not out to get you, I haven't called you un-intelligent, and I'm not bashing you.

While I don't want to throw fuel on a fire, they speak English in Ireland...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/08 17:01:39

Proudly howling at 40k games since 1996.
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3000 point Imperial Fists army
5000 point Dwarfs army
3500 point Bretonnian army
2000 point Beastmen army

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/08 17:00:55

Proudly howling at 40k games since 1996.
Adepticon Team Arrogant Bastards
6000 point Space Wolves army
2500 point 13th Company Space Wolves army
3000 point Imperial Fists army
5000 point Dwarfs army
3500 point Bretonnian army
2000 point Beastmen army