Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8886
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:14 am

Longshot wrote:

tkoxxx11 wrote:

Yeah...I appreciate the sentiment as well.

I often thought that "Furious Impaler" was probably my best name.

How long ago was Furious Impaler active? Was he a top contender?

How do you figure out how a warrior gets +4Att and etc?

Substitute the use of the Terrablood site automatic warrior generator for CIC in the following:

What can you do with the Consortium Information Collection (CIC)? How does one use all that info? Contact RSI or Jorja in DM93 to get a copy.
You can use the information to:
1. Predict what your designed warrior is going to look like. (Indeed, you can use the info to “try out” several design ideas, before you choose your final design.
2. Review the overview of the warrior you received to see if he/she is bonused/hosed.
3. Help keep track of the warrior’s skills, including those earned from certain stat raises.
4. Determine advantageous and usable weapons and armor for certain situations.
So let’s examine the CIC in detail.
1. ***DAMAGE CHART*** This chart shows you the range of expected damage doing your character will yield. For example, a SZ16, 10ST warrior yields “-R+”, meaning great damage is typical, but lower and higher are not uncommon. Damage doing is dependent on SZ, ST, and luck of the roll. If a warrior is much below, or much above, the chart predictions, he is “hosed” or “blessed”. This chart is more of generic reference than most of the other information.
2. *** HIT POINTS*** HP is calculated as (3.75xCN)+(1.1xSZ)+(0.4xWL) . This chart shows the HP needed for each rating. For example, an 11-10-8-15-17-12-11 warrior would have(3.75x10)+(1.1X8)+(0.4x17)=53.10HP and his “hit point rating” would be “cannot lot”, meaning cannot take a lot of damage. One raise of CN elevates him to 56.85 and “normal HP”.
3. ***ENDURANCE*** By this chart’s definition, endurance equals (WL)x(ST+CN) Using the warrior mentioned above, endurance is (17)x(11+10) = 357. Based on the chart, this warrior should have “normal endurance. It is possible to be hosed/blessed in endurance, which would be the case if this warrior did not have normal. Note: On a warrior profile sheet, the lack of any comment about endurance, means the warrior has normal.
4. ***COORDINATION*** Coordination is merely SP + CN. There is no hosing or blessing. The warrior listed above has 12+11 = 23 or normal coordination.
5. ***ENCUMBRANCE*** is often called “carry”. Carry is a non-hosed/blessed attribute dependent on ST and CN and it indicates how much weight a warrior can carry without penalizing the endurance. Checking the chart for the above listed warrior shows 11ST/10CN yields “B” carry, or “cannot carry a lot of weight”. Each level of carry adds 9 points of weight that can be carried. A = 9; B = 18; C = 27, etc. Items to be carried are armor, helm, and weapon/shields. Check the WEAPON REQUIREMENT chart to see the weights of weapons and armor. As an example, a warrior wearing ASM/H, and carrying BS/ME and a backup SH, has the following weights of 8 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 2 = 19. That amount of carry is more than the 18 indicated for “B carry”, hence, the warrior out much quicker than normal.
6. ***HEIGHT*** this is a simple conversion chart showing what heights equate to what SZ. While the warrior fight summary may list the warrior in ft-in, the D2 program really runs using the SZ number. Size may limit weapons or shields that may be used without penalty, and as seen above, it impacts certain other characteristics.
7. ***INTELLIGENCE*** This chart indicates the intelligence statement you will receive at each numeric WT. In general, only the numeric value is of importance.
8. ***STYLE SUITABILITY*** This is a chart which summarizes which weapons/shields are suitable, marginal, or unsuitable for which styles.
9. ***WEAPON REQUIREMENTS*** This chart only refers to primary-hand weapons, and it is a terrific summary of weapon requirement and impact. This chart reveals all of the following and more:
a. weapon weights
b. ST requirements for a weapon
c. SZ limitations for a weapon
d. WT requirements for all weapons
e. DF requirements for a weapon
f. Weapon impact vs. armor type
g. Kill “ratings” for weapons (Take this rating with a “grain of salt” as it is not really supported by empirical results, and it appears to say heavy weapons kill better.)
h. Whether the weapon is a slash, bash, or lunge type weapon.
10. ***BAGMAN 2 SKILL CHART AND STYLE MODIFIERS*** This chart is a doozy! It took years of data and development, and has become a highly important tool in D2. The SKILL CHART explains what skills are earned at each stat level. For example: at 5 WL the warrior gets 1 each Attack, Parry, Defense, and Decisiveness skill; at 6 WL, no more skills are earned; but bumping the 7WL again adds one each of those same four. Note also that SZ does impact skills. A SZ3 warrior gets two each defense and parry skills and loses two initiative, while a SZ21 earns 4 initiative but loses four each defense and parry. This chart is prepared in an accumulative fashion, showing the total skills at each stat.
Coupled with that chart the STYLE MODIFIER chart shows the “at birth” style modifications. (All negative
Or zero. Each style starts with a different base of skills. Lets take our previously mentioned 11-10-8-15-17-
12-11 warrior for example, and let’s say he is a slasher.
The skill chart shows 2 each attack and parry skills at 11 ST; no skills for CN; no sk1lls for SZ; at 15WT
9 initiative, 3 riposte, 7 attack, 7 defense, and 2 decisiveness; 4 each attack, parry and defense plus 5 decise at
17WL; 3 init, 4 riposte, 2 defense, and 5 decise at 12SP; and at 11DF there are 3 Init, 4 Riposte, and 5 each
attack, parry and defense skills. Add those all together to get a 15Init-11Rip-18Att-11Par-18Def-12Dec total
of skills for that design. Now you must apply the style modifier chart, and a slasher has as follows:
-2 Init, -4Rip, -8Att, -10Par, -12Def, -2Dec. Putting them both together yields a slasher who should expect
13 Initiative, 7 Riposte, 10 Attack, 1 Parry, 6 Defense, and 11 Decisiveness as starting skills.
11. ***HIGH WIT STATEMENTS*** These statements apply to those warriors with 8+ WT. (There are also Low Wit Statements, but that information summary is inaccurate due to lack of input data.) This list indicates what “statements” should appear on your “warrior profile” for each of Initiative, Riposte, Attack, Parry, and Defense per each level of wit. Using our warrior above, as stated, he is expected to start with 13 Initiative skills. He has 15 WT. Examining the chart, under Initiative and across from 15 WT (which also applies for 16WT, since the next listed level is 17), the left side (high order) is for 13+base init skills, and the right side (low order 10-12 base init). We determined that he should start with 13, so we should expect the statement “Nothing short of genius …”. If we do get this statement as expected, we DO have 13+ Initiative skills. (13 min) Hence, we could be bonused with skills above 13. We would know if we were bonused 3 Init skills, as we would start with an expert in Initiative. However, if, indeed, we received the other statement “With a very aggressive …..”, we would know we started with 10-12 Initiative skills, and were hence hosed 1 to 3 initiative skills.
Let’s try one more example – for Riposte. Our skill evaluations showed him to have 7 skills. Looking at
the HIGH WIT chart at 15WT, he has fewer skills than the low order amount of 10-12, so he should expect
no riposte statement. If he did get the low order statement, then he truly has at least 10 riposte skills, so he is
bonused +3 or +4 (4 is max skill hose or bonus.) Evaluating the high wit statements of all five skill areas
(There is none for decisiveness.) will lead to a true and actual understanding of the starting skill set of any
warrior.

_________________A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

Thomas Jefferson

tkoxxx11Unchartered Poster

Joined: Oct 13, 2012
Posts: 36

Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:53 am

Um...Furious Impaler is *currently* active...as Furious Bear.

Yes he was pretty much always one of the top contenders after he was "Primus developed"...and TC'd Primus once that I know of.

NomadArchMaster Poster

Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 2088
Location: Fargo, ND

Posted:
Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:27 pm

One thing I have never really understood - what is the advantage of knowing exactly how many hit points you have? I know about how much damage my guys can take. If I knew exactly what the number was, would it somehow help me modify my strategy or design? It is interesting, but how would I use that information? (As opposed to a much more broad concept of "he can take a fair amount, but not tons of damage.)

The one big difference i see in the two hit point systems here is that the one the Consortium puts forward seems to give size a bigger role in total hp.

I use it mainly to know how much a warrior can take in damage and may adjust armor or strats accordingly. After so many years, and fights, I know about how much damage a warrior with a certain HP level can take and then look to see if said warrior seems to take more or less than usual before giving up. I've had normal HP guys with a high WL who get 1-shot quite often (with normal rather than extra damage hits) and I've had frail guys with lower WLs seem to take 3 or 4 shots before giving up.

I use it like there's my own imaginary "Pain Threshhold" stat and try and gauge if they are hosed or bonused in that department. This will effect how I run them and with what armor I give them. It is minimally important; the HP total that is.

_________________A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

Thomas Jefferson

LongshotGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 587
Location: Port Moody, BC

Posted:
Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:14 am

Thanks Consortium. My head is still reeling from all of the numbers. But I will get it.

tkoxxx11 wrote:

Um...Furious Impaler is *currently* active...as Furious Bear.

Yes he was pretty much always one of the top contenders after he was "Primus developed"...and TC'd Primus once that I know of.

Okay. I was wondering if I am remembering the same guy. When my friends and I were younger, the other guys talked about sports or whatever. We talked about the guys in the game the same way. That is...when we weren't talking about role playing games and girls.

Our conversations were about Furious Impaler, Epitaph, and Donatello. Sorry for highjacking your thread, but was Epitaph and slasher and Donatello a parry lunge?

tkoxxx11Unchartered Poster

Joined: Oct 13, 2012
Posts: 36

Posted:
Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:38 am

Both Donatello and Epitaph were parry-lungers.

Donatello was the first truly "great" warrior...pounding everybody mercilously...and winning *many* TCs. Not really sure why Epitaph would be in that conversation: he was a good warrior and I believe he TV'd on multiple occasions...but I'm pretty sure he was never quite "top tier" and never TC'd.

Furious Impaler was of course...a lunger...and I'm pretty sure that I TC'd with him prior to changing him to an aimed-blow. I *think* I sold Furious to Papa Bear fairly shortly after I changed him (it's been a long time). It had not been "figured out" yet how difficult max aimed-blows would be to hit by running open-handed, dodge tactic when I quit playing.

LongshotGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 587
Location: Port Moody, BC

Posted:
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:34 am

Well, it was over twenty years ago. We didn't have internet. We saw Epitaph name listed in tourneys newsletters a lot. He was good to us. Especially since none of us had a Lord Protector at the time much less a Duelmaster. We all started in slow arenas.

tkoxxx11Unchartered Poster

Joined: Oct 13, 2012
Posts: 36

Posted:
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:15 am

That is certainly true! And after I posted it...I was second guessing myself and wondering if perhaps Epitaph did TC at one time. As you said, 20 years is a long time...and I might not be remembering it that clearly either.

Thinking about it...for quite a while it was just pretty much Donatello and "everybody else." Nobody was able to compete with Donatello for quite some time...probably about two years or so? Certainly, Epitaph was one of the better warriors of the day...

And then I think Vengeance was on top for a very long time...I think even longer than Donatello.

DeGottiAdvanced Master Poster

Joined: Jul 19, 2002
Posts: 420

Posted:
Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:10 pm

Epitaph did indeed TC ADM back in the day. I stumbled upon this while looking at some very old tourney NL's.

_________________Cult of Bacchus (81)

Street_LegalArchMaster Poster

Joined: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 3433
Location: The Big D (etroit) area

Posted:
Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:40 pm

Weren't Dee Dee and Gypsy Moth among the early greats as well? I remember when Jake the Snake of Tobir was a "top" warrior only because that was my only arena back then and I fought him a few times. I don't think I was ever around for the Spearman era of Tobir (14).

_________________A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

Thomas Jefferson

LHISite Admin

Joined: Jun 20, 2002
Posts: 1318

Posted:
Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:45 am

Epitaph TC'd ADM Oct 1988.
Donatello first TC'd Jan of 1990 and then started dominating Oct 1991. 12 TCs?
Spearman got started TCing in 1996 but started dominating in 1998. 11 TCs for him I think?
Furious got 8 I think.
Spearman would probably have over 20 TCs now if Carapace had continued playing or had passed him on.
Notable 'new generation' post-Gateway primus warriors include Bonnie (5), Rabid-Gerbil (4), Sebastian (5), and Webbed Toes (5).
Other warriors such as Mr. Gherkin (5), Bob Eternal (5), The Reaper (5), One Man Army (6), Neosphincter (5), etc. have had several TCs on their way up. This has mostly been eliminated since warriors can no longer park in classes and win multiple TCs.
There have been several warriors to win 4 different classes... but I didn't notice one to win 5 classes. I do think that Pepp and Meat (and others like them) will probably win 8 classes as they train up. That's good ROI.

_________________More TCs please!

LongshotGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 587
Location: Port Moody, BC

Posted:
Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:47 am

I thought so. I wish I could find all of my old stuff. I would love to write an article on some of the old history.

Was it true that Donatello became so that good because he used multiple +3 potions?

TUMMaster Poster

Joined: Jul 17, 2002
Posts: 296
Location: Delaware

Posted:
Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:35 am

LHI wrote:

Epitaph TC'd ADM Oct 1988.
Donatello first TC'd Jan of 1990 and then started dominating Oct 1991. 12 TCs?
Spearman got started TCing in 1996 but started dominating in 1998. 11 TCs for him I think?
Furious got 8 I think.
Spearman would probably have over 20 TCs now if Carapace had continued playing or had passed him on.
Notable 'new generation' post-Gateway primus warriors include Bonnie (5), Rabid-Gerbil (4), Sebastian (5), and Webbed Toes (5).
Other warriors such as Mr. Gherkin (5), Bob Eternal (5), The Reaper (5), One Man Army (6), Neosphincter (5), etc. have had several TCs on their way up. This has mostly been eliminated since warriors can no longer park in classes and win multiple TCs.
There have been several warriors to win 4 different classes... but I didn't notice one to win 5 classes. I do think that Pepp and Meat (and others like them) will probably win 8 classes as they train up. That's good ROI.

I believe this last one was Webbed Toes' 6th TC...and, for what it's worth, Drat also has 4. Just serving my shallow vanity.

LHISite Admin

Joined: Jun 20, 2002
Posts: 1318

Posted:
Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:09 am

I can only find 5 Primus TCs for Webbed.
One in 2006, 2 in 2007, one in 2011, and 1 this year. Maybe some of my older records aren't accurate?

(I only see 3 Drat Primus TCs too )

Although I do think Drat's 2003 Primus TC was important as that it ushered in the era of the AB TC in Primus. (Well, post Spearman anyway.)