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Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

Heres why OB is in trouble. He openly has said last year and prior to this season that they struggled defensively because they had a lack of quality defenders and until they were able to improve defensively they wouldnt be able to improve. All along in this process he and even Bird have continually commented that they could score on anybody and offensively they were good enough to win night in and night out in this league.

They went out and got the defensive players-Jones, Jones, Watson.

Problem is they often struggle more offensively than defensively-this after theyre on record as saying that basically wouldnt happen.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

Heres why OB is in trouble. He openly has said last year and prior to this season that they struggled defensively because they had a lack of quality defenders and until they were able to improve defensively they wouldnt be able to improve. All along in this process he and even Bird have continually commented that they could score on anybody and offensively they were good enough to win night in and night out in this league.

They went out and got the defensive players-Jones, Jones, Watson.

Problem is they often struggle more offensively than defensively-this after theyre on record as saying that basically wouldnt happen.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

ok what do you do if no one is producing. Listen I am not about only blaming the coach, but lets look at the cards we are dealt here. I think many people on here are thinking we have more talent than we really do. I think we just dont have the talent most every other team in the league has. Our best player right now is a 6th man on most other teams.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

Yeah I listened and that particular comment from him made a lot of sense. he was very emphatic about Ford not startng anymore

A little sooner this year than last year. There must be a reason why Ford can't keep his starting job on every team he's played for. He apparently doesn't understand "why" backups take his starting job away from him. If Price became the #2 PG, maybe he'd start to think about it, but I truly doubt it.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

ok what do you do if no one is producing. Listen I am not about only blaming the coach, but lets look at the cards we are dealt here. I think many people on here are thinking we have more talent than we really do. I think we just dont have the talent most every other team in the league has. Our best player right now is a 6th man on most other teams.

It's pretty apparent the FO didn't understand the value of Jack to this team. No need to but the money was there.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

It's pretty apparent the FO didn't understand the value of Jack to this team. No need to but the money was there.

Its hard for me to believe that Jack is better than Watson and D jones combined. On the raptors Jack is still just averaging 9.5 points and 4.5 apg. Last year it was 13.1 ppg and 4.1 apg on the Pacers in 33 mpg.
Watson is 7.3 ppg and 3.7 apg in 25 mpg.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

Its hard for me to believe that Jack is better than Watson and D jones combined. On the raptors Jack is still just averaging 9.5 points and 4.5 apg. Last year it was 13.1 ppg and 4.1 apg on the Pacers in 33 mpg.
Watson is 7.3 ppg and 3.7 apg in 25 mpg.

Jack scores more but his defense is not as a good as Watson, IMO.

Jack's leadership is NOT being duplicated by Watson and Jones. Plus I never said the Pacers shouldn't have signed Watson and Jones. I said the FO didn't underestand the value of Jack to this team, and the FO had the ability to have had the money to re-sign him. They had the money available to sign all 3, but chose to spend it elsewhere.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

After listening to his show last night, I feel somewhat better about what the guy feels he is up against. He addressed the injuries and how they relate to players' minutes and the shape they are in, specifically Dun and Hansborough. He also mentioned the quote about All Stars.
I just feel OB is not the coach for a young team that needs the leader to get out and push them. I think of the Colts' philosophy on injuries and how it's next player up. This team seems to want to follow their leader's mantra of too many guys hurting.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

Jack's leadership is NOT being duplicated by Watson and Jones. Plus I never said the Pacers shouldn't have signed Watson and Jones. I said the FO didn't underestand the value of Jack to this team, and the FO had the ability to have had the money to re-sign him. They had the money available to sign all 3, but chose to spend it elsewhere.

How can you tell? Is it because in games you don't see someone pointing the finger or yelling at someone to do their job. My point is that you don't know how much he was a leader and how much they are not? ITs impossible to know that unless I am talking to JOB's staff.

Even if you are right then Jacks real value as a leader was on the offensive side and not the defensive side given we are better defensively than offensively.

Don't get me wrong I would love to have jack back but I just don't see the intangibles like you do.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

And the Pacers are better defensively this season. 7th best defensive field goal %. And at least part of the reason is Watson and Jones

The offense is worse though.

Buck, I respect your opinion so tell me why in almost every game we jump out to a double digit lead then fall on our sword? No team has led the Celtics by 15 at haltime, and we've had consistent double digit leads on some of the best teams in the league. We can't be totally inept to surge to big leads against excellent teams. It seems when the rotation of players start in the second half, we lose our rhythm, our momentum, and our flow. Isn't that poor coaching? When players are hot, he should go with them until they run out of gas or stop producing. JOB tends to make substitutions no matter what a player is producing on the floor. We go through the same scenerio almost every game...surge to big leads, then go stagnant and get left in the dust in the 4th quarter. If a player stops moving, cutting, passing, and running the coach should bench him immediately...this seems a lack of discipline on coach's part.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

Buck, I respect your opinion so tell me why in almost every game we jump out to a double digit lead then fall on our sword? No team has led the Celtics by 15 at haltime, and we've had consistent double digit leads on some of the best teams in the league. We can't be totally inept to surge to big leads against excellent teams. It seems when the rotation of players start in the second half, we lose our rhythm, our momentum, and our flow. Isn't that poor coaching? When players are hot, he should go with them until they run out of gas or stop producing. JOB tends to make substitutions no matter what a player is producing on the floor. We go through the same scenerio almost every game...surge to big leads, then go stagnant and get left in the dust in the 4th quarter. If a player stops moving, cutting, passing, and running the coach should bench him immediately...this seems a lack of discipline on coach's part.

I could answer your question in a number of ways. Let me start by saying this - coaching can keep a team in the game, but talent wins it in the end. I have always believed this and Kevin Mchale often talks about that very thing.

In each of the big leads the Pacers have gotten lately, Magic, Spurs, Celts, each team IMo slept walked through most of the first half. They didn't take the pacers seriously, they thought they could just show up and get an easy win. After they were down 10-15 points, they started playing. One thing to keep in mind is the Pacers opponent has bad games, bad first halves, bad second halves, and vice versa. The opponent isn't constant in other words. Once those much better teams started playing they won the game without too much problem.

Getting a nice lead against good teams mean next to nothing. Pacers in '04 and in the 90's used to do it all the time, fall behind and then win in the end, because they were better than most teams. Also teams tend to play either up to or down to the competitition - every team does that. so once again getting a nice lead against a better team means nothing.

OK, then we move to huge probem the pacers have. Especvially with Granger out, they have no go to guy, no one who can just create a shot, a foul or a shot for a teammates, and that is what you need when the defense digs in (which is what happens when teams the caliber of the Celts get down by 10-15 points.

IMO I do not discredit the pacers coachingg staff for the lost leads the pacers have had. they lose leads because the opponent is a better team than the PACERS, the pacers have a talent deficit almost every night, they also lack confidence as do all poor teams - they don't expect to win, where as teams like the Celts expect to win every game.

there is a lot more to say on this important topic, but I have a Christmas eve partyo to get to

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

How can you tell? Is it because in games you don't see someone pointing the finger or yelling at someone to do their job. My point is that you don't know how much he was a leader and how much they are not? ITs impossible to know that unless I am talking to JOB's staff.

Even if you are right then Jacks real value as a leader was on the offensive side and not the defensive side given we are better defensively than offensively.

Don't get me wrong I would love to have jack back but I just don't see the intangibles like you do.

Fair enough, but one doesn't have to be vocal to be a leader. I see something is amiss in the games, and Jack seemed to be the glue of the team last year. Where's the glue this year? At 9-18, the Pacers are 1/3 thru the season, and something isn't right with the chemistry and leadership of this team... whether it's the players, the coach, or a combo of both. IMO, Jack played an extremely important role in the 2nd half of the season with his play and his leadership. I just don't see the leadership or chemistry this year. JMOAA

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

Yeah I listened and that particular comment from him made a lot of sense. he was very emphatic about Ford not startng anymore

Oh yea, it made sense.

Ford may not start now, he gets the same minutes and is still not producing.

He gives Rush plenty of time to prove himself, yanks hibbert quickly though.

Murphy hadn't produced for a few games, no one took his spot.

Price and Head do produce when given the opportunity, but only get to play when there's an injury.

Should I go on?

It's just another example that Obrien is full of it, and really he should just shut his mouth. At this point I'd prefer "I'm the coach, and I'm gonna play who I want to play" Instead of making up answers.

Re: Today's Negative OB Quote

My point is this the Pacers have brought in 15 different players in two years. 9 last year and 6 this year. We have not been able to get a consistent starting lineup. Our glory days we had that!! Jackson, Reggie, DD, Mc Key/Rose, Smits starting together for several years and producing.