mark12A:Tell me again why I'm supposed to help subsidize other people's promiscuity....

Because there are probably plenty of things you agree with that other people don't want to subsidize, but we do anyway. It's called living in a civilized society where people make compromises in order for people of varying beliefs to live lives of contentment.

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face:Click Click D'oh: So, what you are saying is that at best, all ALEC can do is get a congressman to introduce a bill... which then still has to go through the whole vetting, reading, committee, voting, resolution process just like any other bill be rubber-stamped by bought and paid for GOP state legislatures?

cameroncrazy1984:FlashHarry: zedster: there is a lot of push on Angies List to leave ALEC, a lot of major companies have.

ALEC? explain, please?

ALEC is a consortium that writes legislation that its member corporations want passed and give said legislation to its member lawmakers to submit. It's how there are so many Stand Your Ground laws that read exactly the same.

I understand most of these backroom shenanigans, but I don't see who's profiting from Stand Your Ground laws? Why the organized push?

mark12A:Tell me again why I'm supposed to help subsidize other people's promiscuity....

You DO realize that people in committed, monogamous relationships use BC, right? If my wife didn't use BC, she would have had a kid every year since she started having sex, she gets pregnant so easy, it's like all you have to do is walk by her on the right(wrong?) day... As a result, she uses BC, and she has gotten pregnant on the pill twice, once on the rods inserted in her arm, and once on the Nuva ring, so it requires an IUD, which is more expensive than the rest, and requires a medical procedure to install.

So no, you wouldn't be subsidizing her promiscuity, no matter how many times your Rush Limbaugh Singing Bass tells you so, you would actually be ensuring that I didn't have 15 kids and need to go on Welfare to try and raise them all. Instead, I only have 3.

fusillade762:I understand most of these backroom shenanigans, but I don't see who's profiting from Stand Your Ground laws? Why the organized push?

You may have heard of this little community organization called the NRA......it has a lot of members, many of whom are fairly wealthy, whom it pays to keep happy, and they have the ear of a certain well defined demographic in our country.

kbotc:Weaver95: kbotc: Also, uncle sam is guaranteeing the student loans, so if the female student decides to just call it all a wash, declare bankruptcy and live off the dole with the kid for the rest of her life, that's up to $80k out of your pocket just for the student loans that are now valueless to society.

student loans *cannot* be discharged via bankruptcy. once you take a student loan you are on the hook for it 'till the day you die...and maybe even afterwards.

Wrong. They can be discharged under circumstances, one of which is bankruptcy. You're referring to a fairly short-term change that was implemented and reversed during the Bush administration.

Setting aside for a moment the fact that Rush should be cut to bloody pieces with power tools, HuffPo has its precious progressive pointed head so far up its own ass that we should be amazed they haven't remanded that all men be castrated.

So Rush's plan instead is to instead continue to lie to these kids and tell them to rack up absurd amounts of debt and not pay attention to what taking on that debt means or what affect a rate hike would have on loans...then when they graduate and can't pay the loans back, we can call them irresponsible leeches who should have paid closer attention to the terms of the loans they took out. Meanwhile, a bunch of financial institutions continue to get no interest loans essentially from the government/taxpayers, but apparently, that's ok.

kbotc:kbotc: Weaver95: kbotc: Also, uncle sam is guaranteeing the student loans, so if the female student decides to just call it all a wash, declare bankruptcy and live off the dole with the kid for the rest of her life, that's up to $80k out of your pocket just for the student loans that are now valueless to society.

student loans *cannot* be discharged via bankruptcy. once you take a student loan you are on the hook for it 'till the day you die...and maybe even afterwards.

Wrong. They can be discharged under circumstances, one of which is bankruptcy. You're referring to a fairly short-term change that was implemented and reversed during the Bush administration.

Ahh... I'm wrong, but they can still be discharged due to "undue hardship"

And this is very rare. You basically have to be paralyzed or in a coma before they will discharge your student loans. Otherwise if you go into default the government will take your tax returns, garnish your wages, ss, and bank accounts.

there is a lot of push on Angies List to leave ALEC, a lot of major companies have. Apparently, Angie's list has been rather flippant with their replies to e-mails on the topic. I have only seen Twitter remarks about it so no letter to link to. I'll try to flush one out

Looking for those, not even seen that. Mind pointing in the direction that you're talking about with the tweets about them?

On a side note, how cool would a Rush Limbaugh singing Bass be? Make it a big ugly farker, and have it download the latest, foulest soundbite, so any time you walk by, it could spit out how much of a slut you are, or how we're all going to Hell, because we're Socialsts... Adding in a randomizer, you could organize all kinds of drinking games, have an audio out jack, so you could hook it up to the stereo, and have drinking rules based on how many random quotes pissed people off that weren't even at your house...

kbotc:Weaver95: kbotc: Also, uncle sam is guaranteeing the student loans, so if the female student decides to just call it all a wash, declare bankruptcy and live off the dole with the kid for the rest of her life, that's up to $80k out of your pocket just for the student loans that are now valueless to society.

student loans *cannot* be discharged via bankruptcy. once you take a student loan you are on the hook for it 'till the day you die...and maybe even afterwards.

Wrong. They can be discharged under circumstances, one of which is bankruptcy. You're referring to a fairly short-term change that was implemented and reversed during the Bush administration.

"Effective October 8, 1998, your obligation to repay Title IV, HEA student loan and grant liabilities can no longer be canceled (discharged) due to bankruptcy, unless you can successfully prove that repayment of the debt would cause "undue hardship" as defined by case law in your jurisdiction. Previously, student loan and grant liabilities could only be canceled (discharged) due to bankruptcy under certain conditions which, in general, depended on the amount of time between the date on which a loan or grant liability was due or the date that the bankruptcy was filed, as well as undue hardship."

you know what's worse than a troll? an idiot that doesn't read his or her own research.

student debt is discharged in bankruptcy literally only with the 1) death of the debtor or 2) the crippling, permanent disability of the debtor.

frankly, when a person starts spewing tripe about how "unfair" student loans are to other taxpayers but then completely misquotes fundamentals about how those loans work, that person should shut the fark up.

"•You file for bankruptcy. (This cancellation is rare and occurs only if a bankruptcy court rules that repayment would cause undue hardship.)"

everything i've ever read on the subject of student loans indicates that discharging studen loan debt via bankruptcy is exceedingly rare. it's theoretically possible mind you...but it almost never happens. even people who lose all their limbs and are stuck in a coma for 10 years still have to deal with their student loan repayments.

badaboom:In a free market you have a product. If the product is too expensive no one will buy it. You have 2 choices. Go out of business or lower the prices.

Quality education, by its very nature, is going to be a pricey proposition, by the time you figure all that goes into producing it, thus even at "bargain basement" prices it will be priced out of the reach of much of the population....the very people whom we WANT to be able to have access to it, you know, so they can develop the tools necessary to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

Mikey1969:mark12A: Tell me again why I'm supposed to help subsidize other people's promiscuity....

You DO realize that people in committed, monogamous relationships use BC, right? If my wife didn't use BC, she would have had a kid every year since she started having sex, she gets pregnant so easy, it's like all you have to do is walk by her on the right(wrong?) day... As a result, she uses BC, and she has gotten pregnant on the pill twice, once on the rods inserted in her arm, and once on the Nuva ring, so it requires an IUD, which is more expensive than the rest, and requires a medical procedure to install.

So no, you wouldn't be subsidizing her promiscuity, no matter how many times your Rush Limbaugh Singing Bass tells you so, you would actually be ensuring that I didn't have 15 kids and need to go on Welfare to try and raise them all. Instead, I only have 3.

$5 birth control pills at wal-mart, $5 latte's at Starbucks, give one up once per month. Is your wife's IUD being paid for by public insurance coverage?

Getting $40 billion extra per year in revenue from millionaires is bad and evil and won't put a dent in the deficit and has been blocked by Republicans, but gaining an estimated $0.58 billion per year (taking the $5.8 billion and dividing by ten) from doubling the student loan rate is A-OK with Republicans, because we have to cut spending and raise revenue from sources other than those that can afford it?

kbotc:Also, uncle sam is guaranteeing the student loans, so if the female student decides to just call it all a wash, declare bankruptcy and live off the dole with the kid for the rest of her life, that's up to $80k out of your pocket just for the student loans that are now valueless to society.

Wow, I am paying $80 Grand for one person's student loans? I didn't realize that. I'll have to have her come over and give me a few Hummers to make up for it, do you have this person's number?

Mikey1969:On a side note, how cool would a Rush Limbaugh singing Bass be? Make it a big ugly farker, and have it download the latest, foulest soundbite, so any time you walk by, it could spit out how much of a slut you are, or how we're all going to Hell, because we're Socialsts... Adding in a randomizer, you could organize all kinds of drinking games, have an audio out jack, so you could hook it up to the stereo, and have drinking rules based on how many random quotes pissed people off that weren't even at your house...

If your argument is that single party dominated legislatures that can push through their will without honest debate are bad, there's no argument from me there. But pretending that things like ALEC are GOP only is bullshiat. Also, pretending that ALEC is the problem, and not the people in office is also bullshiat.

So, what you are saying is that at best, all ALEC can do is get a congressman to introduce a bill... which then still has to go through the whole vetting, reading, committee, voting, resolution process just like any other bill?

The horror! THE HORROR!

After the nation was told that we had to pass the health care bill to find out what's in it, Dems can STFU about introducing/passing legislation.

no.. in my humble opinion, ALEC is much more 'dangerous' at the state and local level...and there will be more of their shiat pushed through at the state level before they fade away into the conservative wood pile.

fusillade762:I understand most of these backroom shenanigans, but I don't see who's profiting from Stand Your Ground laws? Why the organized push?

Don't stir that up... some of these people actually still think that Stand Your Ground laws had anything to do with the Martin/Zimmerman case. Just let them keep ranting. It helps to tell who the intelligent ones are.

Mikey1969:mark12A: Tell me again why I'm supposed to help subsidize other people's promiscuity....

You DO realize that people in committed, monogamous relationships use BC, right? If my wife didn't use BC, she would have had a kid every year since she started having sex, she gets pregnant so easy, it's like all you have to do is walk by her on the right(wrong?) day... As a result, she uses BC, and she has gotten pregnant on the pill twice, once on the rods inserted in her arm, and once on the Nuva ring, so it requires an IUD, which is more expensive than the rest, and requires a medical procedure to install.

So no, you wouldn't be subsidizing her promiscuity, no matter how many times your Rush Limbaugh Singing Bass tells you so, you would actually be ensuring that I didn't have 15 kids and need to go on Welfare to try and raise them all. Instead, I only have 3.

The answer to this, of course, is either "Tell your wife to stop opening her legs so much" or "Then get your balls cut, idiot".

People who want to control others' sex lives don't care about any "excuses", you either do what they want you to do or you're a demon slut money-gobbling beast.

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!:badaboom: In a free market you have a product. If the product is too expensive no one will buy it. You have 2 choices. Go out of business or lower the prices.

Quality education, by its very nature, is going to be a pricey proposition, by the time you figure all that goes into producing it, thus even at "bargain basement" prices it will be priced out of the reach of much of the population....the very people whom we WANT to be able to have access to it, you know, so they can develop the tools necessary to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

but yeah, crazy talk, I know.

because Hah'vahd math, science, lit, law, etcetera, is of higher quality than the state school you could go to for four years at the same rate Harvard and the like cost for 1 year?

A prof making $250,000+ teaches better than one making $75,000 and currently works in that field, I read it on the internet.

Uh, the current Student Loan rates scare me. I haven't had to take one out yet, but, planning for the future of buying a car, a house, maybe having kids and all the taxes/insurance/emergency money CD that would go along with it. . .I don't need to add something else I'll be paying off for ten years after I graduate.