The Music and Video apps in Windows 8 seemed like they were designed to do one thing: sell stuff to you. Music, in particular, placed great emphasis on buying stuff from Microsoft's Xbox Music service, to the point that the first thing you saw when you started the app was not your music (which is, presumably, the music you are most interested in), but artists who often times you had never even heard of, much less gave a damn about.

The 8.1 Music app goes pretty hard in the other direction. It's much more about playing your music, much less about flogging pop tarts.

Enlarge/ On the first run through, an extra introductory screen is shown.

The app is now split into three main sections: Collection, Radio, and Explore.

Collection is your typical spreadsheet view with the usual options to sort your music or to view it by albums, artists, or songs. It's barebones, but it works.

Radio generates playlists based on artists that it then streams to you. You can stream as much as you like for six months. Subsequently, it's limited to ten hours a month—unless you buy Xbox Music Pass, in which case you have unlimited streaming.

Explore is where the sell comes. It promotes some artists and lets you search for more. It's also where you buy those artists' musical output.

Finally, there's the Now Playing view, which shows your current playlist and pulls related imagery for the current song. It's rather less exciting than the old Now Playing view, which was full-screen and really showed off the pictures.

Tying it all together are cloud services. Those Xbox Music Pass subscriptions also provide for song matching and streaming your music from anywhere. Songs can be downloaded and kept offline, or they can just live in the cloud.

If it all seems a bit basic and spartan, that's because it is. The 8.0 Music app had rich data about the artists, giving biographic information, pictures, and so on. That's substantially scaled back in the new app. I would like it to return; the app feels downright empty at the moment, especially the store. It looks like the data is all still there, because Now Playing is still able to retrieve artists photos for its background pictures, but it's no longer plumbed in. I hope that this regression is rectified, as it was one of the old app's best parts.

I also found it to act in a way that's just plain weird. I have about 2,200 songs in my local library, according to Windows Media Player. Music, however, only shows me 770 of them (I think it's only showing me the ones it can match, I'm not entirely sure). Some songs that it thinks it should be able to download aren't downloading. One album I bought previously from Xbox Music, Erasure's The Innocents, has downloaded fine on one machine but refuses to download on another, claiming that it's no longer available with an Xbox Music Pass.

Worse, it's downloading songs from the cloud even though I already have perfectly decent copies in the library, on disk.

What I would like to do is to somehow reset my account and tell it to rebuild my library from scratch, using the local files, but there doesn't seem to be any immediately easy way of doing so.

Overall, the Music app is a reasonably serviceable playback app. The functionality isn't substantially different from the Windows 8 version, but the new focus—playing your own music rather than buying stuff—makes it feel like a better app. It also seems to be somewhat faster than the old app.

That said... after a year of development, it ought to be better, and I don't think it's as much better as it should be. Even when lots of music comes from cloud services, metadata editing is useful. I also think there needs to be more "awareness" of the different ways people play music. For example, it's common enough nowadays to use a PC to play music at a party, so that people can look at the playlist and even cue up songs that they like. The full-screen Now Playing mode of the original app looked good in this kind of situation.

On the video side of things, the sales pitch remains front and center. I think, given the context of the app, this makes more sense, as watching video tends to be one-off more of the time. The video app has undergone fewer changes, overall. The presentation of your own videos is a bit more concise, but still includes plenty of rich details.

Enlarge/ The home screen in the Video app still defaults to showing you stuff to buy, rather than stuff you own (though that's an option).

The problem with both of these apps is that their desktop counterparts are apps like iTunes and Windows Media Player. iTunes and Windows Media Player are both flawed programs. They do lots of things, they both show some evidence of neglect (even with iTunes' recent makeover), and in truth, both apps probably deserve to be rewritten from scratch.

However, they're both pretty versatile. They fill a lot of different use cases and serve many different roles. The Metro apps are a lot narrower in their scope, and do a lot less.

For a device like an iPad, it probably doesn't matter that the music app doesn't do everything. You can always hook up to iTunes on a computer to do your more complex tasks. But a Windows tablet is a bit different: the premise of Windows 8 and 8.1 is that it's a self-contained and complete OS and that tablets are as capable and powerful as PCs.

Now sure, I could switch to Windows Media Player or iTunes on the same machine (at least, if it's not running Windows RT), but as mentioned, the experience of doing this is mediocre. For whatever reason, they don't work all that well together. And even if they did, I feel that I want the Music and Video apps to actually be complete and self-contained. That, to me, is the value of the Windows 8 concept.

As you can tell from there, they're reviewing a lot of suggestions from family plans to synchronizing the app from device to device. The 8.1 app has come a long way from where it began and it still has another couple years to catch back up to the state that the Zune software was at (sidebar, it's a damn shame people mobbed that out of existence).

Also, in regards to the Music Library bit, Xbox Music has their own versions of songs. And those versions frequently change, it makes no sense. If you buy/download a copy of a song, it may get replaced a year later and you will no longer be able to stream that copy because it cannot find it any longer.

Any chance you can try the music app with a windows 8 phone? All i can really listen to now is Pandora and my house has bad reception, mowing the yard means jamming on the front half and listening to the droning mower on the back half.

I miss the windows 7 phone/zune interface. When Windows 8/Phone 8 came out i upgraded pretty early and was so radically disappointed at how bad the software worked. I could stuff an 80gb zune in no time and I was constantly exploring new music. Somehow I got the reputation as borderline hipster just because I would try so many of the new trending songs on Zune that I was pretty consistently 3 months ahead of those bands breaking out on the pop charts. Dear Microsoft, you guys really screwed up bad on that one. At least the WMC problems are sorted out enough that I can make the HTPC of my dreams now, but I still really want to add back in the music Zune offered.

Also, in regards to the Music Library bit, Xbox Music has their own versions of songs. And those versions frequently change, it makes no sense. If you buy/download a copy of a song, it may get replaced a year later and you will no longer be able to stream that copy because it cannot find it any longer.

This is really annoying. Another annoying "feature" is when there are duplicates of albums in my library because Xbox Music, for some reason, has created multiple entries for albums and thinks the version on my computer or phone isn't the one I wanted to play. When this happens on WP8, I often end up streaming albums that are actually on my phone, but Music thinks need to come from the Cloud because I tapped the 'Cloud' version of the album. I've almost use my entire monthly data limit a few times playing an album that was on my phone. It's exceptionally irritating when it's an album I bought through Xbox Music...

to the point that the first thing you saw when you started the app was not your music (which is, presumably, the music you are most interested in),

For the record, you could set Music in 8.0 to either open to the store OR to open to your collection. The former was the default setting but not the only option.

That said, Music 8.1 is a MASSIVE step forward in user interface. I'm really enjoying it now. Though Zune PC for Windows 7 is still my favorite UI (I've been a Zune Pass/Xbox Music Pass subscriber for a couple years now).

The UI is much more efficient now. But still lacking compared to Spotify and Google Music.

The radio feature still doesn't know any of my favourite artists, also unlike Spotify and Google Music.

I get advertising even before playing my own albums. Edit: got that wrong. You won't get ads if the songs are stored locally. If they are stored on another pc, you'll get ads (if you don't have a pass). Which makes sense.

Like Peter, it didn't seem to have all of my music available, which is utterly bizarre considering the deprecated Zune software has no such problems. What Peter failed to mention, and I consider most important, was the fact that it plays ads when your not streaming music. That is, albums you already own and have saved locally pause between tracks to play ads. Completely unacceptable. As soon as I discovered this, I switched back to Zune.

Like Peter, it didn't seem to have all of my music available, which is utterly bizarre considering the deprecated Zune software has no such problems. What Peter failed to mention, and I consider most important, was the fact that it plays ads when your not streaming music. That is, albums you already own and have saved locally pause between tracks to play ads. Completely unacceptable. As soon as I discovered this, I switched back to Zune.

Wow. Seriously? Fuck that. I could understand ads when streaming, although I don't stream music for that reason, but playing ads between songs I already paid for?

I'm going through the 199 suggestions I can see. Here's one to get rid of ads while streaming from PC to a Surface, or basically, streaming your own music over your LAN. Vote that shit up. This is totally unacceptable.

Can anyone explain why I should use a gimped mobile app vs something like wmp, iTunes, foobar etc. on my PC at all?

GUI? I'm a pretty big music lover, and so it doesn't exactly work for me (even if I was running Win8, which I only have on my netbook), but the user interface in foobar is terrible (configuration helps, but it's still majorly messy), iTunes isn't much better, and WMP is just okay. I can't believe I just said something positive about Windows Media Player. Even really great music managers like MusicBee and Clementine are complicated if you don't actually need all of the features they're offering. A simplified mobile-like GUI could be a great feature for a lot of users.

What I'd personally like to see is MS repurposing Zune software into a Xbox music desktop program, they're killing Zune anyways and that way, the program itself would still get support and you'd get access to teh Xbox Music service through it under any version of Windows it supports. Ever since I started using Zune, I've pretty much stopped using any other media player.

There is a Metro version of Media Monkey that seems to work pretty well that would probably serve folks with existing music libraries better. Xbox Music just doesn't seem to play nicely with local stuff.

I'm not in front of my PC to double check this, but I believe if you click / tap on the title of the song in the new NP view (bottom left corner) it brings you to the old, full screen view.

Hmm. That makes the list of songs full screen.

I don't get it. It looks like each year they discard their previous music app and create a new one from scratch, with a new development team, that doesn't have access to the source code and specifications for the previous version. I have no other explanation for this mess.

Like Peter, it didn't seem to have all of my music available, which is utterly bizarre considering the deprecated Zune software has no such problems. What Peter failed to mention, and I consider most important, was the fact that it plays ads when your not streaming music. That is, albums you already own and have saved locally pause between tracks to play ads. Completely unacceptable. As soon as I discovered this, I switched back to Zune.

I've only seen that happen when it plays a song from my cloud collection, though I have a local copy available. But ads play only when streaming.

Hm, someone needs to confirm my experience. Maybe I hit an album that was in my collection but not on this pc. The app isn't very clear on what's from where.

Hmm strange, I don't get an ads, this could be because I'm in Australia though and we have different license agreements. Although after a while I got a xbox music pass and that may be why.

If you look to the left of the songs there's either a little icon that's a dot with two radiating lines out each side (kinda like ((.)) but with the dot aligned vertically in the center) which is for streaming or a set of stacked bars like the default icon for excel's bargraph which means it's on the computer.

Hm, someone needs to confirm my experience. Maybe I hit an album that was in my collection but not on this pc. The app isn't very clear on what's from where.

Hmm strange, I don't get an ads, this could be because I'm in Australia though and we have different license agreements. Although after a while I got a xbox music pass and that may be why.

If you look to the left of the songs there's either a little icon that's a dot with two radiating lines out each side (kinda like ((.)) but with the dot aligned vertically in the center) which is for streaming or a set of stacked bars like the default icon for excel's bargraph which means it's on the computer.

Yeah, if you have a pass, you don't get ads. I've never had problems with ads appearing when playing local content even without a pass. I would have to try again with the cloud collection to see if I get ads. I think I did when I tried it, but it has been a while. I'll take ads with the free streaming service for the music I don't have though. I don't stream enough to justify getting a pass at this point and I don't mind the ads when I want to stream the occasional album that I don't intend to buy.

Hm, someone needs to confirm my experience. Maybe I hit an album that was in my collection but not on this pc. The app isn't very clear on what's from where.

Hmm strange, I don't get an ads, this could be because I'm in Australia though and we have different license agreements. Although after a while I got a xbox music pass and that may be why.

If you look to the left of the songs there's either a little icon that's a dot with two radiating lines out each side (kinda like ((.)) but with the dot aligned vertically in the center) which is for streaming or a set of stacked bars like the default icon for excel's bargraph which means it's on the computer.

You're right. I got the ads when I played an album that I have on another pc. So it was streaming. And I don't have a pass.

Can anyone explain why I should use a gimped mobile app vs something like wmp, iTunes, foobar etc. on my PC at all?

GUI? I'm a pretty big music lover, and so it doesn't exactly work for me (even if I was running Win8, which I only have on my netbook), but the user interface in foobar is terrible (configuration helps, but it's still majorly messy), iTunes isn't much better, and WMP is just okay. I can't believe I just said something positive about Windows Media Player. Even really great music managers like MusicBee and Clementine are complicated if you don't actually need all of the features they're offering. A simplified mobile-like GUI could be a great feature for a lot of users.

Actually, I use foobar almost exclusively due to its customizability and no-nonsense UI. I find all the other media players out on the market suffer from far too much bloat. They also have an infernal habit of altering the metadata on my files without my permission thus screwing up my organizational system.

I still don't see the point. It's the same with the Skype app. The full program is insidious enough in its own right (doesn't shut down or remove itself from the taskbar unless you know wat you're doing) so the need for a stripped down app on a full x86 machine is completely unfathomable.

About the only time I ever use the Start menu or any of the 'apps' is on my media centre where I need the larger UI.

Can someone at Ars attempt to buy and download a video from Windows 8 Video, and then transfer it to a Windows Phone (8)? If it results in hours of epithets and eventually giving up and posting a scathing, poorly-written article on thoughtless incompatibilities, I'll be satisfied.If it results in Ars successfully getting it working, I'll eat humble pie and do the same on my end, so I can watch some shows on the subway.

I'll be another to say that the Zune HD player interface was superior to what we have, although this is an improvement. The Zune desktop software is OK but it doesn't work with a touch interface and is awful on my tablet. The Windows Media Center is actually pretty good for listening to your own music.

Sometimes a song is matched in such a way that you have two version, the local version and the matched version (e.g. Ash 1997 and Ash 1997 (2008 Remastered)). When you play your music, sometimes you play these streamed versions and get advertising. Very frustrating. This is made worse when your music is on two devices, so both are matched, so you end up having many of these "ghost" album matches from one device to the other.

Some tips:1) If you only want to listen to your own music, turn of the match (settings charm, preferences).2) If you want to use music match, only have it on on one device. If you have the same album on two devices and both are being matched, you will have frustrating conflicts.3) On your browser go to music.xbox.com. Browse your cloud collection there and you can also see what is matched and make edits.

The Music app is still a bit strange. - If I am listening to a song, for example, I can't easily go to the album or artist. - I don't have the "now playing" option Peter shows in the images, I have to click on the album art. - If I search my collection for an album and click it, it is the old Windows 8 interface; I am in a different place than if I simply clicked on the album from my collection.- No biographies- In explore, you have top albums, but not top songs and no division by genre.

And Windows 8 is the work of satan and I'd rather drink hot led than install it on a machine of mine.

I was a little skeptical myself before I bought a computer with it pre installed and decided to try it for a few weeks before wiping it, and it really isn't too bad once you install classic shell and do away with Metro. There are a number of under the hood improvements that make it worthwhile to upgrade from 7 as a desktop user.

Hm, someone needs to confirm my experience. Maybe I hit an album that was in my collection but not on this pc. The app isn't very clear on what's from where.

Hmm strange, I don't get an ads, this could be because I'm in Australia though and we have different license agreements. Although after a while I got a xbox music pass and that may be why.

If you look to the left of the songs there's either a little icon that's a dot with two radiating lines out each side (kinda like ((.)) but with the dot aligned vertically in the center) which is for streaming or a set of stacked bars like the default icon for excel's bargraph which means it's on the computer.

Can you screenshot this? I don't see anything like what your describing. All I see is a little cloud next to some songs (apparently it's randomly cloud matching songs as it goes along?). Also, I'm positive that the ad was played before a song I saved locally because it was the first time that I had ever run the app. I'd believe that it streamed a copy because it had already matched it and didn't recognize my copy, but that would be a silly bug they need to sort out.

Hm, someone needs to confirm my experience. Maybe I hit an album that was in my collection but not on this pc. The app isn't very clear on what's from where.

Hmm strange, I don't get an ads, this could be because I'm in Australia though and we have different license agreements. Although after a while I got a xbox music pass and that may be why.

If you look to the left of the songs there's either a little icon that's a dot with two radiating lines out each side (kinda like ((.)) but with the dot aligned vertically in the center) which is for streaming or a set of stacked bars like the default icon for excel's bargraph which means it's on the computer.

Can you screenshot this? I don't see anything like what your describing. All I see is a little cloud next to some songs (apparently it's randomly cloud matching songs as it goes along?). Also, I'm positive that the ad was played before a song I saved locally because it was the first time that I had ever run the app. I'd believe that it streamed a copy because it had already matched it and didn't recognize my copy, but that would be a silly bug they need to sort out.

Here you go, I don't have any downloaded at the moment as I'm on a work machine and it just streams but if you want when I get home I can screenshot side by side downloaded and streaming ones. It only really shows the icons when you drill down to the individual song level in an artist. My mistake with the bar graph it was actually the song that was currently playing. (same icon as the now playing section, should have clicked.)

There is a Metro version of Media Monkey that seems to work pretty well that would probably serve folks with existing music libraries better. Xbox Music just doesn't seem to play nicely with local stuff.

I may have to try that, as music doesn't support nas directories, and that is where most of my music is.

I have to agree with all the Zune PC software supporters. man, I thought I was the only one who loved that application. this is like the support group I always wanted. in fact, I am still rocking my zuneHD after all these years.

the single biggest frustration for me is that the new app no longer supports junction points in libraries. on the plus side, it now supports removable media as part of libraries, removing the need for the junctions... all the same, it made for a scary few minutes of "wtf happened to my music library? zune can see it."

Peter, I have been using the music app and I have a different version than you reviewed it seems. my "now playing" is still the old windows 8 version with the big artist pics and the strange floating shapes. I do not have the "now playing" playlist entry you showed either. as far as I can tell, everything else is the same. was the app updated after your review but before official release?

Peter, I have been using the music app and I have a different version than you reviewed it seems. my "now playing" is still the old windows 8 version with the big artist pics and the strange floating shapes. I do not have the "now playing" playlist entry you showed either. as far as I can tell, everything else is the same. was the app updated after your review but before official release?

I just updated mine a few hours ago (Music app that is) and have the same now playing playlist that Peter has, I'm running the "RTW" version of Win8.1 which came out a month ago though which may be different to the update from the store or RTM. (Build 2791088 vs 2971902)