Again, itâ€™s possible to hate both the Gods and the priests, itâ€™s just highly unusual and requires a good rationale.

Yup. Look at Itcoatl for example. He hates gods because they mess with his playground. Sure, they keep the jungle away, but (to his knowledge) they have no reason whatsoever to descend the Mountain interfere with his stuff. The fact that Iztcoatl couldn't keep the jungle away himself is completely secondary to him, as the overwhelming emotion of annoyance completely shadows it.

Grettir wrote:

The character concept does now fit the setting much better, but itâ€™s quite important to remember that the number of sacrifices has been cranked up dramaticlly only recently, and that before, only a handful of people each year wouldâ€™ve been sacrificed, almost exclusively criminals. So for your character to come from a family that has been decemitated dramatically by sacrifice this family would either to have had a background in crime or run afoul of a very powerful priest, probably a high priest, who has manipulated the system to get rid of them.

That's an excellent suggestion really! If that high priest had been Itzcoatl for example... and the Conners' character hated the Gods too for whatever the reason, the character would face a choice whether to be on the side of the Gods or on the side of the man who had his family slain. Okay, it sounds more like "justice vs. freedom" than "price of freedom" but I think it would be close enough, especially since you can pick "injustice for freedom.. and then justice".

_________________"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones

The character concept does now fit the setting much better, but itâ€™s quite important to remember that the number of sacrifices has been cranked up dramaticlly only recently, and that before, only a handful of people each year wouldâ€™ve been sacrificed, almost exclusively criminals. So for your character to come from a family that has been decemitated dramatically by sacrifice this family would either to have had a background in crime or run afoul of a very powerful priest, probably a high priest, who has manipulated the system to get rid of them.

higgins wrote:

That's an excellent suggestion really! If that high priest had been Itzcoatl for example... and the Conners' character hated the Gods too for whatever the reason, the character would face a choice whether to be on the side of the Gods or on the side of the man who had his family slain. Okay, it sounds more like "justice vs. freedom" than "price of freedom" but I think it would be close enough, especially since you can pick "injustice for freedom.. and then justice".

Perhaps the price paid for freedom is the lack of justice in their world? I think that works quite well as an aspect of the theme to explore. However, creating the character is only partially about making a character whose backstory addresses an aspect of the theme. The larger part is how you see the character exploring that aspect of the theme in-game and how you see that bouncing off the other characters and their exploration of the theme.

Personally I like the idea that the parents of the character (a name would be handy) were involved in something illegal -- for instance, given they belong to the warrior caste, perhaps they accepted bribes in order to esure that people that had committed crimes worthy of sacrification were in fact charged with lesser crimes. Evidence would disappear, witness testimony would change, the number of sacrifices needed was very small and there were more than enough criminals to meet the needs of the gods -- everyone was happy. But when the number of sacrifices dramatically increased, and lesser and lesser crimes resulted in sacrification, their little scheme was detected by Itzcoatl. With a sense of irony he felt it only fitting that they should be charged and found guilty of a crime whose punishment was sacrification. And so he arranged for that to happen. I think it is important that their fate was "rigged", as it fuels the character's examination of the theme.

If the character arrested Palaluca, was subsequently ordered to hunt down Punchau, if he was tightly linked with the warrior Punchau murdered (a cousin perhaps, or brother-in-law?), and he reached Pac's courtyard in time to witness Ixt ordering the warriors to slay the Servitor -- well, then I think you do have nice ties to the other PCs plus a very interesting decision-point to address in that very first scene. Particularly if the character gained the opinion that Ixt was actually responsible for the slaying of the god and the first Servitor -- that Pac did these things on Ixt's orders.

However, creating the character is only partially about making a character whose backstory addresses an aspect of the theme. The larger part is how you see the character exploring that aspect of the theme in-game and how you see that bouncing off the other characters and their exploration of the theme.

See, Conners, thatâ€™s what I meant with having to have an eye on the other characters, and how your own character can interact with them in ways that help the other characters explore the theme.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Personally I like the idea that the parents of the character (a name would be handy) were involved in something illegal -- for instance, given they belong to the warrior caste, perhaps they accepted bribes in order to esure that people that had committed crimes worthy of sacrification were in fact charged with lesser crimes. (â€¦)their little scheme was detected by Itzcoatl. With a sense of irony he felt it only fitting that they should be charged and found guilty of a crime whose punishment was sacrification. And so he arranged for that to happen.

Personally, I like this idea very much. For it to work, the death of the family (maybe â€œjustâ€ the father?) would of course have to have happened quite recently â€“ the Godâ€™s have only re-emerged about a year ago, and the need for sacrifices has gone up steeply only after that. But if the sacrification of the characterâ€™s family would have been recent, that would also help to explain why he is still in the service of the temple â€“ there wouldnâ€™t be years and years and years of serving the hated priests; the hate is a recent thing.

Itâ€™s also good that the â€œcrimeâ€ for which the family has been killed is an ambiguous one â€“ they saved people from sacrification. Sure, they made good money on the side, but surely saving people from death is not bad? Or is it? This kind of background has great depth and great potential, and you donâ€™t need an unheroic or â€œevilâ€ character to rationalize away the justice of his own family being framed for something they didnâ€™t do as punishment for something else they did and which wasnâ€™t all that bad to begin withâ€¦

Of course, itâ€™s your call, Conners, and higginâ€™s if he wants Itzcoatl in the role poposed by Ian. While itâ€™s preferable to lock the characters together in such a way, we could always use another high priest.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

I think it is important that their fate was "rigged", as it fuels the character's examination of the theme.

Indeed. The resulting moral stance is less clear, more open to being questioned.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

If the character arrested Palaluca, was subsequently ordered to hunt down Punchau, if he was tightly linked with the warrior Punchau murdered (a cousin perhaps, or brother-in-law?), and he reached Pac's courtyard in time to witness Ixt ordering the warriors to slay the Servitor -- well, then I think you do have nice ties to the other PCs plus a very interesting decision-point to address in that very first scene.

If this isnâ€™t clear for you, Conners, read up Hectorâ€™s character Punchau in the character vault. What happened with him is that Punchau slew a close friend of his standing guard over Palaluca, absconded with the girl, ran into Pac Utalâ€™s sister An-Ara, a very close friend of Palaluca, and took refuge in Pac Utalâ€™s house, where he and Palaluca are still hiding. Ian means that your character was the one to initially arrest Palaluca (or one of those warriors) and was later sent to Pac Utalâ€™s house, where the trail of the Punchau and the girl was leading to.

By Ian's suggestion, your character would hate the priests and the Gods because Itzcoatl framed close relatives of the character for something they didn't do. He secretly hates Itzcoatl more than any other priest -- but now he witnesses Itzcoatl kill a Servitor...

First of all, like Ian has aleady pointed out, you need to get the â€œevil priests/evil cult/evil godsâ€ idea out of your head. The gods keep their people safe from the terirble, terrible jungle â€“ that they do so plain to see and impossible to deny. And to pull this off, the Gods need sustenance, human blood. To organize the flow of blood to them, the Gody have installed he priesthood. Both priests and Gods are providing a very valuable service to the people, even so a gruesome one â€“ but their sacrifices keep humanity alive. The truth of this is plain to see.

It is of course possible to hate the priests, but not so much because they sacrifice people, but rather because they, or some of them, are self-serving and do tyrannically abuse the powers they have been given by the Gods.

Itâ€™s equally not easy to hate the Gods outright. I mean, people need just take a look around to see from what murderous terror the Gods are protecting them. If somebody was to hate the Gods, he needed a really good reason, for instance a hatred of priests he has extended to â€“ somewhat irrationally â€“ encompass all things religious, including the Gods. Thatâ€™s down the road you are thinking anyhow, but you need to be able to find an answer to this:â€œWhat if you had irrefutable proof that God existed and that his mercy was keeping you from dying a horrible death, but you hated him anyhow?â€

That was my impression at first, but now I have more of the idea that he's somewhat deranged, hating Priests and things related to them irrationally. He sees the fact that the gods and priests save them from the evil jungle, and he was willing to accept the sacrifice of volunteers and prisoners without complaint... but now he's convinced that the Gods are tricking them somehow, and that there's some other way than this suicidal end.

Yeah, his hate of the gods is basically an extension of his hatred of priests. However, it's also just part of his personality... he isn't suited to serving Gods of this type.As for that question... The character I'm playing (I really need to name him... can we move onto that soon just so I can call him by name?) would answer differently than I would, since he's moderately deranged. My answer if you were wondering, would be (I very much hope) "Of course I wouldn't!!" or something like that.

Grettir wrote:

Your guy can be in love with a priestess, but remember that cross-caste sexual contact is not only forbidden by divine law but indeed punishable by demotion for priests and sacrification for anybody else. And this is indeed a good reason to despise the Gods. The reason for the sacrifices is apparent, but the caste laws seem wantonly cruel.

Yes, I remembered that... and that is a large part of the reason he hates the gods. It all creates some conflict for him that he hates priests but is in love with a priestess... question is her character.

Hmm... Just curious, would it work out if the Priestess he was in love with was Layanna? This'd require some sort of return of feelings on her end--possibly false ones to trick him? Hmm... don't think he's the sort to fall for those kind of tricks...Well, just a thought.

Grettir wrote:

Btw, I also need you to come up with twoor three NPCs in your characterâ€™s background, people heâ€™s got relations with and who bind him into the setting. Just so you keep an eye open; I donâ€™t need them right now.

OK, I'll keep it in mind and try to come up with some ideas. I was considering him having a younger sister who was also spared from punishment, but that might ruin the concept of his loneliness.

A few of quick questions: I guess main NPCs like Layanna don't count? Does fleshing out a non-detailed NPC who is in and could be related to my character count? I'm guessing I can have more if I want? Having my friend Syrus the Supreme God who gives me magical items yearly is not allowed :mrgreen:?

Just asking.

Grettir wrote:

When I thought about your guy maybe being a bit deranged, I didnâ€™t think about stark raving mad, but rather quietly, inwardly, a seething and irrational anger eating away at him. My idea wasn't killing sprees, rather neurotic self-delusions.

And then such a guy neednâ€™t even know that his relatives only got what they deserved. He could sincerely believe that they were done in wrongly. In a game like ours, we would btw not find a definite answer to wether they were or werenâ€™t until the very moment we need to know that. But itâ€™s your call. Iâ€™m the referee, but that doesnâ€™t mean that I am going to tell you what character youâ€™ve got to play.

Yeah, that's what I'm going for. Delusional, but not to an extent that makes him absurd.

His family were innocent people, I'm figuring. Theoretically they don't need to be, it could just be part of his psyche, but it makes more sense if the priests he started off hating are genuinely bad so that he was logical to begin with. Also, I guess I just don't feel like playing out a tragedy where he kills good priests for the sake of his bad family .

Grettir wrote:

We havenâ€™t decided about the exact nature of the contest. All we know at this stage is that the contest is rather complicated in its setup, very challenging and at least in part athletic, probably in the major part. And that people train long and strenuously to win it, and that doing so is a huge honour for the winnerâ€™s family. That said, itâ€™s conceivable that a very fit and generally athletic person could do well even without months or years of specialized training, but it seems very unlikely that he would win.

But itâ€™s not really important if your character might â€“ theoretically â€“ have had a chance to beat Pâ€™Tarn; as long as this occurrence does not seem totally absurd, the priests could have set your character up to compete, and could have rigged the contest so that heâ€™d win. And itâ€™s also not important that you character would never had tried to win â€“ the priests didnâ€™t know that your guy hated them and would thus have had no reason to believe that he wouldnâ€™t pounce at the chance of becoming the chosen sacrifice. Ian has hinted at it: The way things are developing now, I can almost assure that this yearâ€™s contest will have to be cancelled.

So it might be like an obstacle course with logic puzzles, or an endurance test which is best trained for? We'll have to decide on how much puzzle and how much physical it is, then it'll be easier to work out the rest.One idea is something like totem-climbing, where you have to arrange the faces as you climb, which is difficult (falling is either failure or "get up and try again"). Another idea is that it's in more than one test (like elimination rounds).

I was wondering if they'd have some idea for his resentment towards them, but not nearly as much as they thought they understood it. Adds the possibility of his love being a hostage more, although if they have suspicions about his affections she could be a tool of blackmail and hostage without their realizing his hatred.

Just more ideas.

Grettir wrote:

Yes, it does to a sufficient degree. But I guess you have realized by now that the entire world is set up in a way that the thematic question is at its very core, especially now that the Gods demand more sacrifices. The Ascended had had found the answer that they were willing to pay the price â€“ but suddenly, the price has gone up steeply.

And hereâ€™s where the OOC-, metagaming-aspect in playing I have referred to enters the scene. Normally, one creates a character and tries to play him according to his ficitional personality. Here, thatâ€™s not quite enough. Participants are expected to do that and to keep an eye on the story at large, even in parts where it does not touch their characters directly; they are expected to create characters and to play the characters in such a way that their participation has an interesting and thematically relevant impact on the characters of other players.

That may sound terribly difficult and high-brow, but itâ€™s quite easy when you see in action, especially as the weaving together of the individual character actions into a coherent tapestry is done too a large degree by me anyway. Itâ€™s just important that participants give me material I can work with â€“ that they look beyond themselves in creating and playing their character, that they acknowledge the needs of the story at large.

So saying â€œitâ€™s just his characterâ€ is a bit too little. PCs and their characters do not preexists, they are made. In this game, they should be made with one eye on addressing the theme yourself and the other eye on helping the other characters address and explore the theme.

Also, when I say â€œexploring/addressing the themeâ€ I do not mean having a ready reply. Every real person, and every well-rounded rpg character, is of course an individual answer to the issues he had and has to deal with. Wha we are striving to do with this game is to explore the validity of the individual answer. You see this quite well with the direction host Jaguar is heading into. Heâ€™s a Descended, freedom to him is more precious than his life â€“ but his wife and daughter are even more precious than his freedom. And then thereâ€™s the Shoatli, something he can use to free himself and his family â€“ but only by enslaving others. Now thereâ€™s a challenge to his answer to the premise.

Itâ€™s similar with your proposed guy. He hates he system and yearns for freedom â€“ but with the way things are, he has found that he is not quite willing to pay the terrible price for freedom. But now, with the Gods re-emerged, he may have to reconsiderâ€¦

Again, itâ€™s possible to hate both the Gods and the priests, itâ€™s just highly unusual and requires a good rationale. And when you maneuver your character in place, think also about the other player and their PCs and what you can do for them and their thematic gaming experience.

I have been considering this fact of this game, and have been wondering how I can carry him further to bringing the question before himself or bringing it up for other characters.One idea I was considering with the current situation. He is presented with a means to end the priests and gain immunity and freedom, but in doing so he would be setting up a new tyrant to reign over the city--and a priest at that!! Possibly I'd set him up as Itz's right-hand-man if I could, an enforcer... something he'd HATE to be, but it'd guarantee his freedom from sacrifice.Is the price of freedom really worth that to him...? It might be, begrudgingly, just for now... but should he meet Ghost Jaguar with his enslaving Shoatli, then he might try to convince Ghost Jaguar to do something, bringing Crow Caller another question of The Price of Freedom.

Sound good?

I understand about taking a Director's stance on the story foremost, then taking up Actor's stance when the director has decided which way the story would go. Never really had much trouble with the idea of arranging your character to take a specific action, though making them do something they wouldn't isn't something I'd have done either. I'll make sure to think of interesting actions for the story he can do, even if they aren't advantageous--AND I'll think of plausible reasoning for him doing this.

I think I understand the style of play now, hopefully, though I will need practice to become good at it.

Grettir wrote:

I think Ian didnâ€™t mean going back in time, at least not more than a few minutes. I think he means for your characterâ€™s decision to fall while Itzcoatl and his Slayers are on their march towards the temple.

Generally speaking, though this is of course no requirement, I think it preferable if a character has some personal ie, either directly or indirectly, already in his backstory.Ghost Jaguar was a slave of Itzcoatl. Itzcoatl bought poison from Pac Utal without knowing it. Punchau was a retainer of Itzcoatl. Punchauâ€™s beloved was best friends (and maybe lovers) with Pac Utalâ€™s sister. A nice net â€“ pull anywhere, and it is felt everywhere else.

I was figuring he would be with the soldiers Itz is trying to bring to his cause, an important officer among the hundred warriors being called back to defend the temple.

Hmmm... connecting my character to the others... This is why I was suggesting he be in love with An-Ara, it connecting him to one of the character's very directly (it also still leaves the no inter-caste marriage rule leaving him furious). Since he's an experienced temple warrior, he'd at least know Itz and vice-versa... would need to think more on it to get something more than that.Perhaps he's a friend of Ghost Jaguar? He could have talked to him to try and make him feel better about his wife and daughter and about his situation, possibly gave him some help at various points. Just an idea.

I look forward to suggestions from the other players as to connections.

higgins wrote:

Yup. Look at Itcoatl for example. He hates gods because they mess with his playground. Sure, they keep the jungle away, but (to his knowledge) they have no reason whatsoever to descend the Mountain interfere with his stuff. The fact that Iztcoatl couldn't keep the jungle away himself is completely secondary to him, as the overwhelming emotion of annoyance completely shadows it.

That's an excellent suggestion really! If that high priest had been Itzcoatl for example... and the Conners' character hated the Gods too for whatever the reason, the character would face a choice whether to be on the side of the Gods or on the side of the man who had his family slain. Okay, it sounds more like "justice vs. freedom" than "price of freedom" but I think it would be close enough, especially since you can pick "injustice for freedom.. and then justice".

Yeah, that's about it with my character too. He doesn't consider everything in his hatred, because anger is blinding after all.

Considered it being Itz who killed them pretty quickly, but I wasn't sure about that line of story... He hates Itz already just for being a power-thirsting high priest, so further conflict on that end isn't entirely necessary. If you had killed his family, then he'd probably just execute you as it were and it wouldn't be interesting (besides the fight and the possible outcomes).Should he have the choice of raising you to power to destroy the priests and using his situation to become your enforcer, guaranteeing his safety from sacrifice and possibly the ability to marry his beloved... well, that's certainly something he wants. But he'd be raising Itz to power, ITZ, an evil high priest, a sure-tyrant, by his definition dooming everyone to slavery. Now he has interesting conflict, and since he'll be dependant on his position it isn't the sort where he can just assassinate you later and everything is peachy-keen.

How do you like the idea?

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Perhaps the price paid for freedom is the lack of justice in their world? I think that works quite well as an aspect of the theme to explore. However, creating the character is only partially about making a character whose backstory addresses an aspect of the theme. The larger part is how you see the character exploring that aspect of the theme in-game and how you see that bouncing off the other characters and their exploration of the theme.

You're saying this one has ample justice ?

Well, how do you like the suggested ideas for playing out the theme for myself and others? The one with Itz, for example. Having him convince Ghost Jaguar to use the sceptre to both their advantages is another thing, since G.J hates the idea of enslaving anyone.

Not sure how he'd do anything with An-Ara, since I don't know her character. There was the idea of a relationship between them, conflict arising from the no inter-caste marriage rule, and giving him more sway as to affecting her as to the question, The Price of Freedom. An example is if he were going to do something she was against to secure their freedom.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Personally I like the idea that the parents of the character (a name would be handy) were involved in something illegal -- for instance, given they belong to the warrior caste, perhaps they accepted bribes in order to esure that people that had committed crimes worthy of sacrification were in fact charged with lesser crimes. Evidence would disappear, witness testimony would change, the number of sacrifices needed was very small and there were more than enough criminals to meet the needs of the gods -- everyone was happy. But when the number of sacrifices dramatically increased, and lesser and lesser crimes resulted in sacrification, their little scheme was detected by Itzcoatl. With a sense of irony he felt it only fitting that they should be charged and found guilty of a crime whose punishment was sacrification. And so he arranged for that to happen. I think it is important that their fate was "rigged", as it fuels the character's examination of the theme.

Yeah, a name would be VERY handy... How about Omar?

Well, although it isn't necessary for them to have been good people, I like the current thing for a few reasons: It shows why he especially doesn't want to die as the winner of the yearly contest. It sets the priests in question as evil, giving him logical grounding for his hatred of them, which later spreads illogically to all priests and the gods and servitors. And him getting revenge for bad people just doesn't seem as fun to me (maybe it's the character, maybe I just don't feel like it this time around).

Also, as said, he'd probably not react so interestingly if Itz was his main enemy. There is still director's stance to field him in the right direction, but I really can't imagine him restraining himself from killing Itz for any substantial period of time.Does the current one I mentioned sound interesting to you (in my reply to higgins)?

Ian.Plumb wrote:

If the character arrested Palaluca, was subsequently ordered to hunt down Punchau, if he was tightly linked with the warrior Punchau murdered (a cousin perhaps, or brother-in-law?), and he reached Pac's courtyard in time to witness Ixt ordering the warriors to slay the Servitor -- well, then I think you do have nice ties to the other PCs plus a very interesting decision-point to address in that very first scene. Particularly if the character gained the opinion that Ixt was actually responsible for the slaying of the god and the first Servitor -- that Pac did these things on Ixt's orders.

Well, the idea was that he doesn't have any family as such, so that soldier would have to have been a friend more than blood-related. Finding Itz at that point is good too, in that circumstance... hmm. It's hard to say.

Perhaps I'll decide on that after some other details?

Grettir wrote:

See, Conners, thatâ€™s what I meant with having to have an eye on the other characters, and how your own character can interact with them in ways that help the other characters explore the theme.

What do you think of the suggested ideas for interaction? I'll try to think of more as I go... although I wonder if Hector will be coming back to be interacted with.

Grettir wrote:

Personally, I like this idea very much. For it to work, the death of the family (maybe â€œjustâ€ the father?) would of course have to have happened quite recently â€“ the Godâ€™s have only re-emerged about a year ago, and the need for sacrifices has gone up steeply only after that. But if the sacrification of the characterâ€™s family would have been recent, that would also help to explain why he is still in the service of the temple â€“ there wouldnâ€™t be years and years and years of serving the hated priests; the hate is a recent thing.

Itâ€™s also good that the â€œcrimeâ€ for which the family has been killed is an ambiguous one â€“ they saved people from sacrification. Sure, they made good money on the side, but surely saving people from death is not bad? Or is it? This kind of background has great depth and great potential, and you donâ€™t need an unheroic or â€œevilâ€ character to rationalize away the justice of his own family being framed for something they didnâ€™t do as punishment for something else they did and which wasnâ€™t all that bad to begin withâ€¦

Of course, itâ€™s your call, Conners, and higginâ€™s if he wants Itzcoatl in the role poposed by Ian. While itâ€™s preferable to lock the characters together in such a way, we could always use another high priest.

Don't think it would work happening just recently. This is a hatred nursed over years, I was thinking, a rational person slowly becoming irrational in this respect of themselves.

As said, I'm not sure if the story would go the right direction by his character if he wanted revenge against Itz. Though honestly, he'll hate him enough as it is.

Grettir wrote:

If this isnâ€™t clear for you, Conners, read up Hectorâ€™s character Punchau in the character vault. What happened with him is that Punchau slew a close friend of his standing guard over Palaluca, absconded with the girl, ran into Pac Utalâ€™s sister An-Ara, a very close friend of Palaluca, and took refuge in Pac Utalâ€™s house, where he and Palaluca are still hiding. Ian means that your character was the one to initially arrest Palaluca (or one of those warriors) and was later sent to Pac Utalâ€™s house, where the trail of the Punchau and the girl was leading to.

By Ian's suggestion, your character would hate the priests and the Gods because Itzcoatl framed close relatives of the character for something they didn't do. He secretly hates Itzcoatl more than any other priest -- but now he witnesses Itzcoatl kill a Servitor...

Hmm... for some reason that doesn't ring to me. Maybe it's just because I'm unfamiliar with that part of the campaign and don't understand what's going on? I'll try to read it up when I can.

We havenâ€™t decided about the exact nature of the contest.SNIPIan has hinted at it: The way things are developing now, I can almost assure that this yearâ€™s contest will have to be cancelled.

Conners wrote:

So it might be like an obstacle course with logic puzzles, or an endurance test which is best trained for? We'll have to decide on how much puzzle and how much physical it is, then it'll be easier to work out the rest.

Google Ullamaliztli or Tlachtli and you'll get the picture. It's already established that it is initially a team event, to determine the best team. Then the individual players of the winning team compete in a separate event to determine the Chosen sacrifice. While neither game has been detailed -- there is no need as the event is yet to occur -- it seems logical to me to base the initial team game on Ullamaliztli and the individual "last one standing" event on a labyrinth in which selected jungle denizens -- flora and fauna -- have been placed. First one to escape the labyrinth is the Chosen.

Anyway, there's no point detailing something new until the scene is being framed...

Conners wrote:

Hmmm... connecting my character to the others... This is why I was suggesting he be in love with An-Ara, it connecting him to one of the character's very directly (it also still leaves the no inter-caste marriage rule leaving him furious).

Then he has the very same problem as Punchau...

I hope he comes up with a better solution!

Conners wrote:

Since he's an experienced temple warrior, he'd at least know Itz and vice-versa... would need to think more on it to get something more than that.

We already know those warriors most loyal to Itz. It would be easier to create Layanna's trusted lieutenant than Itz's.

Conners wrote:

Perhaps he's a friend of Ghost Jaguar? He could have talked to him to try and make him feel better about his wife and daughter and about his situation, possibly gave him some help at various points.

He lives in the topmost tier of the mound, or near as. He is, societally-speaking, second only to the priests themselves. GJ is not only a Descended but a captured Descended, a life-slave. I think there would need to be significant backstory to cover why he'd even know GJ's name. More plausible to create this link in-game.

Conners wrote:

Well, how do you like the suggested ideas for playing out the theme for myself and others? The one with Itz, for example. Having him convince Ghost Jaguar to use the sceptre to both their advantages is another thing, since G.J hates the idea of enslaving anyone.

To me, it would be far better to play Layanna's right hand man and convince GJ, when you find him, to give the shoatli to her. Thus you become linked to Itz and GJ. GJ, of course, doesn't trust either Itz or Layanna, and with good reason. Thus we have conflict all round.

Conners wrote:

Not sure how he'd do anything with An-Ara, since I don't know her character. There was the idea of a relationship between them, conflict arising from the no inter-caste marriage rule, and giving him more sway as to affecting her as to the question, The Price of Freedom. An example is if he were going to do something she was against to secure their freedom.

An-Ara considers herself to be free on many levels. However, she has now been "bound" by her need for revenge. We'll see what price she needs to pay to be free from that.

Conners wrote:

I like the current thing for a few reasons: It shows why he especially doesn't want to die as the winner of the yearly contest.

Why is that? Both as a character-based and as a meta-game question.

Conners wrote:

It sets the priests in question as evil, giving him logical grounding for his hatred of them, which later spreads illogically to all priests and the gods and servitors. And him getting revenge for bad people just doesn't seem as fun to me (maybe it's the character, maybe I just don't feel like it this time around).

I have to say I'm not a fan of the whole "evil priests and gods" thing. It just doesn't make sense in this setting. It takes a character capable of denying reality as well as culture.

Personally I think there are some strong disconnects with the character. Ignoring that for the moment -- having read part of the story, where do you want to take it next?

I really need to name him... can we move onto that soon just so I can call him by name? (â€¦)How about Omar?

You can call the character any name you want, provided it does have a pre-Columbian, Mesoamerican ring to it. Omar does so only very marginally. Hereâ€™s a link to the wiki entry for Aztec religion, where youâ€™l find dozens of deityâ€™s names for inspiration:

Conners wrote:

Just curious, would it work out if the Priestess he was in love with was Layanna?

Rather difficult to arrange, I think, as Layanna has already developed a very clear profile. Adjectives like ruthless, cold, calculating, manipulating, power-hungry and charismatic come to mind. Sheâ€™s very hard to like casually and even harder not to like if she tries to come across as sympathetic, but itâ€™s hard to see what her ulterior motives for trying to win a simple temple warrior should be. Another priestess would be less problematic.

Conners wrote:

Does fleshing out a non-detailed NPC who is in and could be related to my character count?

You donâ€™t nee to flesh out the NPC for your character at all; in fact, I donâ€™t want you to. Something like â€œTlaxha, a fat slave who is a close friend of hisâ€ is sufficient. I just donâ€™t want the PCs to float around unconnected to the environment they are living in. To â€œgroundâ€ him, everybody he cares about counts, relatives, rivals, friends, mentors, lovers, etc.

Conners wrote:

So it might be like an obstacle course with logic puzzles, or an endurance test which is best trained for? We'll have to decide on how much puzzle and how much physical it is, then it'll be easier to work out the rest.

No, we donâ€™t. As the contest will most likely never feature in the game anyhow, we neednâ€™t decide this, and knowing that itâ€™s mainly athletic and requires some degree of wits as well shoud be enough to stat out a character who should have any chance to compete in it.

Conners wrote:

Never really had much trouble with the idea of arranging your character to take a specific action, though making them do something they wouldn't isn't something I'd have done either.

Nobodyâ€™s asking that. But wheras in normal gaming you ask yourself â€œWhat would my character do?â€, here you are required to ask yourself â€œFrom among the plausible actions my character could take, which one would lead to the most interesting outcome for all participants?â€ Breaking character is neither required nor desired. Itâ€™s like you said yourself:

Conners wrote:

I'll make sure to think of interesting actions for the story he can do, even if they aren't advantageous--AND I'll think of plausible reasoning for him doing this.

And you even provide a perfect example:

Conners wrote:

If you had killed his family, then he'd probably just execute you as it were and it wouldn't be interesting (besides the fight and the possible outcomes).

Would that be in character? Most probably. But would it be the only conceivable reaction for the character? Most probably not. As this reaction is then not interesting and also not the only plausible one, youâ€™d be expected to chose another plausible, more interesting one. For instance trying to side up with Itzcoatl now, win his trust, and then deliver him into the hands of Layanna at the first opportunity and gain some advancement for the character himself in the bargain.

This is the kind of thinking we are needing. So your idea of trying to side with Itzcoatl at least for now is certainly working, even if it were Itzcoatl heâ€™d be hating more than anyody else.

Conners wrote:

Hmmm... connecting my character to the others...

You donâ€™t need to connect him to all characters, merely locking him into the pattern at one or two places is enough.

Conners wrote:

This is why I was suggesting he be in love with An-Ara, it connecting him to one of the character's very directly

Ianâ€™s call, but I think that should be, well, difficult; I remember that there were hints that An-Ara is lesbian and actually with Palaluca, the girl adored and rescued by Punchau.

Conners wrote:

I wonder if Hector will be coming back to be interacted with.

I donâ€™t think so. But even if he isnâ€™t, one could still use events he has set in motion, i.e. the abduction of Palaluca.

Conners wrote:

That was my impression at first, but now I have more of the idea that he's somewhat deranged, hating Priests and things related to them irrationally. He sees the fact that the gods and priests save them from the evil jungle, and he was willing to accept the sacrifice of volunteers and prisoners without complaint... but now he's convinced that the Gods are tricking them somehow, and that there's some other way than this suicidal end.

If thatâ€™s what your mindâ€™s set upon, fine. Just take care that your character doesnâ€™t become a caricature or even unsympathetic because his irrational hatred.Thatâ€™s why I posed the â€œWhat if you knew God existed butâ€¦â€ question â€“ youâ€™re proposing to play somebody whoâ€™s just closes the eyes to the benevolent side of obviously existing deities and focuses on what he perceives as their malevolent side, quite beyond rationality.

Conners wrote:

Also, I guess I just don't feel like playing out a tragedy where he kills good priests for the sake of his bad family .

Thatâ€™s why I stressed the moral ambiguity of Ianâ€™s proposal of what your characterâ€™s family did. Getting criminals off the hook of being sacrificed, especially in recent times, when even minor offences became punishable with it, canâ€™t be called exactly â€œevilâ€ â€“ unlawful, but not evil. But they did it for money. Okay. So theyâ€™ve done the right thing for the wrong reason. Which makes them â€¦ what?

Conners wrote:

Also, as said, he'd probably not react so interestingly if Itz was his main enemy. There is still director's stance to field him in the right direction, but I really can't imagine him restraining himself from killing Itz for any substantial period of time.

See above for the immediate reaction to Itzcoatl. As for long-term planning of the story â€“ well, with Ozomatli just flaring up into civil war and the threat of what the Mountain will do to Ozomatli when it finds about the killing of the God and the Servitors, it currently doesnâ€™t look as if the city would still be here for a long timeâ€¦

Hmm... Omet or Ometxol are a couple of my immediate thoughts. How does that sound as a starter?

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Google Ullamaliztli or Tlachtli and you'll get the picture. It's already established that it is initially a team event, to determine the best team. Then the individual players of the winning team compete in a separate event to determine the Chosen sacrifice. While neither game has been detailed -- there is no need as the event is yet to occur -- it seems logical to me to base the initial team game on Ullamaliztli and the individual "last one standing" event on a labyrinth in which selected jungle denizens -- flora and fauna -- have been placed. First one to escape the labyrinth is the Chosen.

Anyway, there's no point detailing something new until the scene is being framed...

Won't worry about it for now, then.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Then he has the very same problem as Punchau...

I hope he comes up with a better solution!

That being ?

Ian.Plumb wrote:

We already know those warriors most loyal to Itz. It would be easier to create Layanna's trusted lieutenant than Itz's.

"Trusted" isn't likely to be case, unless he is in love with her (which seems doubtful). However, he would be a very capable officer, so it's quite possible he is her "trusted" lieutenant (also, his family served the side which opposes Nahuahauqui, which seems to be Layanna's lot).

Ian.Plumb wrote:

He lives in the topmost tier of the mound, or near as. He is, societally-speaking, second only to the priests themselves. GJ is not only a Descended but a captured Descended, a life-slave. I think there would need to be significant backstory to cover why he'd even know GJ's name. More plausible to create this link in-game.

I thought slaves of the priests work in the temple? That's different slaves? Omet would be sympathetic to be people wronged by priests, that's why I assumed he might make friends with G.J.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

To me, it would be far better to play Layanna's right hand man and convince GJ, when you find him, to give the shoatli to her. Thus you become linked to Itz and GJ. GJ, of course, doesn't trust either Itz or Layanna, and with good reason. Thus we have conflict all round.

Unless he had some assurance of getting what he wanted from doing this, it doesn't sound like his way of acting whatsoever. So it's merely a case of how trustworthy Layanna is for his goals...

Ian.Plumb wrote:

An-Ara considers herself to be free on many levels. However, she has now been "bound" by her need for revenge. We'll see what price she needs to pay to be free from that.

Heheh... sort of like my character, although he doesn't realize he's trapped. Who does she want revenge against?

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Why is that? Both as a character-based and as a meta-game question.

As for his reason for hating it: Well, his family were killed off by having them win the contest. Then the rest of his family were framed for cheating in the contest and subsequently executed.

My reason? Another thing which has warped and altered his perception from the normal person. Besides helping make him syndical, it was to apply irony to his kicker:The priests were going to have him win the contest through their rigging it, so that they could kill him off--he was suddenly in a situation where he would lose his freedom and become a sacrifice, in the same way as his family.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

I have to say I'm not a fan of the whole "evil priests and gods" thing. It just doesn't make sense in this setting. It takes a character capable of denying reality as well as culture.

Personally I think there are some strong disconnects with the character. Ignoring that for the moment -- having read part of the story, where do you want to take it next?

Regards,

? You don't like his deranged perception, or you think I'm trying to send an OOC message with him Denying reality isn't so hard for people as you would think... I've been surprised at how warped my concepts can become when I feel really stressed.

Now, take someone whose had some really stressful stuff... I can just imagine it, him a little boy, asking why his uncle is going away, and his family tells him how uncle had won the contest, and had the honour to be sacrificed. He never sees his uncle again. Later, his older brother is to be sacrificed, but he doesn't want his brother to leave! But he does... "why did he have to do that...? Leaving me so alone..."He'd be scared terribly about the next time the contest came around, worrying the rest of his family would leave him. Despite his pleading and howling, his father leaves... never to be seen again by his son!

Now that the more influential members are gone, the family is defenceless... and the priests enact their plan to destroy what they can of the remaining older cousins, brother, sisters and mother... Why did they take all his family away...? Why would the priests do something like that...? Why did the gods let them...? I want to die... I want to see mommy and daddy.... I'm scared at night... Those horrible, horrible priests... I'll send them away when I get big! Oh gods... why can't you have stopped this form happening...?

I hope that illustrates my point how I intended it to.

As for where I want to take the story, I was thinking of something where Omet is forced to help Itz take over, and then he relies on Itz for the position he gains. He has his freedom and achieves his revenge... but now he's the right-hand man of a dictator worse than his enemies, made to help him rule and enslave the rest of the city! Is this really a price worth paying for freedom!?If it comes to that, it'd then hopefully evolve into an interesting situation with G.J and the sceptre--perhaps in his desperation Omet would go as far as to hold G.J's family hostage? Good story should arise certainly...

Grettir wrote:

You can call the character any name you want, provided it does have a pre-Columbian, Mesoamerican ring to it. Omar does so only very marginally. Hereâ€™s a link to the wiki entry for Aztec religion, where youâ€™l find dozens of deityâ€™s names for inspiration:

Omet or Ometxol any good (Omet could be what people call him for short? Do they do that in this sort of society?)?

Grettir wrote:

Rather difficult to arrange, I think, as Layanna has already developed a very clear profile. Adjectives like ruthless, cold, calculating, manipulating, power-hungry and charismatic come to mind. Sheâ€™s very hard to like casually and even harder not to like if she tries to come across as sympathetic, but itâ€™s hard to see what her ulterior motives for trying to win a simple temple warrior should be. Another priestess would be less problematic.

Thought as much. A relationship where he's in love and thinks she is with him would be interesting, though I'm not sure how it'd work for the story.

Can he only be a normal Temple Warrior or smaller officer? I was thinking he'd be an important warrior due to skill and strength he possessed (he is a PC, after all). He doesn't need to be important, but it does cause a few complications for what I was planning if he can't be.

Grettir wrote:

You donâ€™t nee to flesh out the NPC for your character at all; in fact, I donâ€™t want you to. Something like â€œTlaxha, a fat slave who is a close friend of hisâ€ is sufficient. I just donâ€™t want the PCs to float around unconnected to the environment they are living in. To â€œgroundâ€ him, everybody he cares about counts, relatives, rivals, friends, mentors, lovers, etc.

Ah, OK. I need to get more free time so I can think about that... There would be the Priestess he's in love with, for one. He might also have a sergeant he can trust under him or something like that... I'll work on a bit more detail later.

Grettir wrote:

No, we donâ€™t. As the contest will most likely never feature in the game anyhow, we neednâ€™t decide this, and knowing that itâ€™s mainly athletic and requires some degree of wits as well shoud be enough to stat out a character who should have any chance to compete in it.

Point taken.

Grettir wrote:

Nobodyâ€™s asking that. But wheras in normal gaming you ask yourself â€œWhat would my character do?â€, here you are required to ask yourself â€œFrom among the plausible actions my character could take, which one would lead to the most interesting outcome for all participants?â€ Breaking character is neither required nor desired. Itâ€™s like you said yourself....

Yeah, I understand that. Maybe I'm just still having a bit of adjustment trouble ?

Grettir wrote:

And you even provide a perfect example:

Would that be in character? Most probably. But would it be the only conceivable reaction for the character? Most probably not. As this reaction is then not interesting and also not the only plausible one, youâ€™d be expected to chose another plausible, more interesting one. For instance trying to side up with Itzcoatl now, win his trust, and then deliver him into the hands of Layanna at the first opportunity and gain some advancement for the character himself in the bargain.

This is the kind of thinking we are needing. So your idea of trying to side with Itzcoatl at least for now is certainly working, even if it were Itzcoatl heâ€™d be hating more than anyody else.

Well, let me think it through... His first impulse is definitely, "kill Itzcoatl..." if Itz executed his family.It is quite possible he'd go with the slayers so as to kill the other priests, attempting to assassinate Itz during the chaos. But then there's his lover there who might be in danger! So he'd have to go ahead of them and make sure she's absolutely safe. He'd report (or sneak if applicable) back to Itz with the intention of killing him secretly--he might even go mad and kill any nearby witnesses if he can't trust them to keep silent.This could lead to a failed attempt, where he'd have to escape with or without killing Itz, becoming a fugitive. Then he could go to G.J, hoping to team up with him and use the sceptre to fix the situation.

Well, that direction is certainly on an equal level of interesting story... The question is which? Not so sure Itz could have killed the family, since I'm so keen on the character's origin combined with how the parents were killed.

Grettir wrote:

You donâ€™t need to connect him to all characters, merely locking him into the pattern at one or two places is enough.

OK. He's already mildly connected to Itz by being a Temple Warrior, although being a lieutenant of Layanna. If Itz killed his family that'd certainly be a connection, but I'm still not sure about that way of story for him.With the other characters, he's the sort who would spend time away from the temple if he could without being suspicious, so it's possible he is friends or acquaintances of Pac (who is dead) An-Ara or G.J.

Grettir wrote:

Ianâ€™s call, but I think that should be, well, difficult; I remember that there were hints that An-Ara is lesbian and actually with Palaluca, the girl adored and rescued by Punchau.

....Oh . Well, guess that wouldn't work out so well, then? Probably has better irony with a priestess, anyway.

Grettir wrote:

I donâ€™t think so. But even if he isnâ€™t, one could still use events he has set in motion, i.e. the abduction of Palaluca.

Not sure what I'd do with that aspect of the story. Will keep it in mind still, of course.

Grettir wrote:

If thatâ€™s what your mindâ€™s set upon, fine. Just take care that your character doesnâ€™t become a caricature or even unsympathetic because his irrational hatred.Thatâ€™s why I posed the â€œWhat if you knew God existed butâ€¦â€ question â€“ youâ€™re proposing to play somebody whoâ€™s just closes the eyes to the benevolent side of obviously existing deities and focuses on what he perceives as their malevolent side, quite beyond rationality.

Well, his character is still flexible. Partial insanity generally makes it more flexible, in fact, due to the randomness that generally comes with it.

There are plenty of people who can close their eyes to the most bizarrely obvious of truths--so I don't see him as impossible or even highly unlikely.

Grettir wrote:

Thatâ€™s why I stressed the moral ambiguity of Ianâ€™s proposal of what your characterâ€™s family did. Getting criminals off the hook of being sacrificed, especially in recent times, when even minor offences became punishable with it, canâ€™t be called exactly â€œevilâ€ â€“ unlawful, but not evil. But they did it for money. Okay. So theyâ€™ve done the right thing for the wrong reason. Which makes them â€¦ what?

That is good, but the reason he's so warped is meant to be from losing his family at a young age.

Grettir wrote:

See above for the immediate reaction to Itzcoatl. As for long-term planning of the story â€“ well, with Ozomatli just flaring up into civil war and the threat of what the Mountain will do to Ozomatli when it finds about the killing of the God and the Servitors, it currently doesnâ€™t look as if the city would still be here for a long timeâ€¦

Speaking of that, I was thinking of a possible destiny for my character: "Save the Ozomatli." It'd be interesting if at first he doomed the city, and then somehow saved it, possibly through sacrificing his life, or perhaps his hatred? Just an idea.

Omet or Ometxol any good (Omet could be what people call him for short? Do they do that in this sort of society?)?

If you like it, fine. And sure, why shouldnâ€™t they use nicknames?

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Then he has the very same problem as Punchau...

I hope he comes up with a better solution!

Conners wrote:

That being ?

Punchau was in love with this girl he had never even spoken to (Hectorâ€™s decision); his Kicker was realizing that this girl had been sentencd to sacrification. He freed her, murdering a close frined in the process, then losing his temper about her objections while trying to abscond with her. Basically, he behaved like a rather obnoxious stalker; the girl did after all not even know him.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

He lives in the topmost tier of the mound, or near as. He is, societally-speaking, second only to the priests themselves. GJ is not only a Descended but a captured Descended, a life-slave. I think there would need to be significant backstory to cover why he'd even know GJ's name. More plausible to create this link in-game.

Conners wrote:

I thought slaves of the priests work in the temple? That's different slaves? Omet would be sympathetic to be people wronged by priests, that's why I assumed he might make friends with G.J.

No, no, theyâ€™re the same slaves and they do indeed work and live in the temple complex. But living alongside eachother nd mingling ar different things, especially with the great difference in status. And donâ€™t forget that the Ascended regard the Descended as sub-human. Itâ€™s of course possible to rationalize a reason why Omet shouldnâ€™t share this sentiment and why he has become friends with Ghost Jaguar, but it would again be unusual and set Omet apart from the setting instead of making him part of it.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

To me, it would be far better to play Layanna's right hand man and convince GJ, when you find him, to give the shoatli to her. Thus you become linked to Itz and GJ. GJ, of course, doesn't trust either Itz or Layanna, and with good reason. Thus we have conflict all round.

Indeed very good, as it would again divide the allegiances of the PCs. Itzcoatl and ghost Jaguar were on different sides throughout most of the game, something thatâ€™ll probably change only right now. If Omet wouldnâ€™t be on the same side as Itzcoatl and Ghost Jaguar, it would create diversity.

Conners wrote:

A relationship where he's in love and thinks she is with him would be interesting, though I'm not sure how it'd work for the story.

Like I said, difficult to rationalize for Layanna, unless Omet were somehow super-important.

Iâ€™m just having an idea. Maybe Omet is one of Layannaâ€™s retainers and has developed a crush on a beautiful young slave woman of Layannaâ€™s? I am of course speaking of Laughing Bird, Ghost Jaguarâ€™s wife. That would provide the problematic love interest, establish a connection to Ghost Jaguar, and provide Omet with a reason to cooperate with Layanna, who's currently having Laughing Bird under custody. I have to say, Iâ€™m loving this possibility.

Conners wrote:

Can he only be a normal Temple Warrior or smaller officer?

You find the actual character creation details in the very first post of this thread. Being a normal warrior or petty officer would require a social C pick, being a top-level officer a B pick.

Conners wrote:

He might also have a sergeant he can trust under him or something like that... I'll work on a bit more detail later.

Like I said, I donâ€™t need and I donâ€™t want any more detail apart from a name, a profession and how the character is connected to Omet. That leaves us more leeway to fill the details in as needed immediately before the NPC has his first appearance.

Conners wrote:

Well, that direction is certainly on an equal level of interesting story... The question is which? Not so sure Itz could have killed the family, since I'm so keen on the character's origin combined with how the parents were killed.

As soon as youâ€™ve started playing, youâ€™ll see that events unfold very quickly and surprisingly (all that Director Stance and use o Drama) and planning far ahead mostly isnâ€™t possible; events have a tendency to overtake plans. But anyhow, I was merely giving an example of how deadly violence is not the only option thatâ€™s in-character (and if somebody was creating such a character, Iâ€™d ask him to reconsider) and that other options are probably more interesting for all participants.

Conners wrote:

Speaking of that, I was thinking of a possible destiny for my character: "Save the Ozomatli."

Sure, why not?

Am I right in assuming that you are basically interested in playing a character who could be termed â€œheroicâ€, maybe tragicall so? Lost his parents at a young age to evil machinations, hiding but nursing his wrath for many years â€“ if he could pull this off, heâ€™d probably be a guy whoâ€™s very much in control of himself, somebody who doesnâ€™t slip. If heâ€™s somehow deranged â€“ and his anger is likely to have made him so â€“ it is a silent, inner, brooding derangement, not something thatâ€™s likely to be noticeable casually.

Btw, if his parents were indeed done in unfairly, I think itâ€™s almost necessary that the public opinion among priests and warriors is that they got what they deserved. Omet may well know the truth, but if it was common knowledge that they have been set up, the priests would have kept a very watchful eye on Omet; it would be unlikely that he would ever have been trusted, and also unlikely that he should have been able to hide his true feelings when he was under such close scrutiny.

Also, wether and to what extent Ometâ€™s true feelings about the priests and Gods are suspected is completely up to you.

Just one point. I've had the impression that being a mound monkey requires quite a lot physical exercise. Maybe up her EN a bit? Otherwise she seems very solid, but that's only to be expected.

And btw, what does the WIP stand for? Work in Progress?

_________________"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones

Happy to receive suggestions regarding her background and ties to the plotlines.

I see youâ€™ve chosen not to spend you Insight from Pac Utal on An-Ara; fair enough.

First of all â€“ what age is An-Ara?

About that Kicker â€“ itâ€™s not clear to me into what direction you would like to take it from there. I see the need for immediate action â€“ do something to â€œsaveâ€ Pac â€“ but I donâ€™t quite see any difficult decision. Also, you have to be aware that Layanna wonâ€™t have any time to spare on An-Ara; itâ€™s already determined that she learns â€œsomehowâ€ (I know how) of the death of the Servitors, holds an immediate assembly of the priests, has some kind of state of emergency declared and sweeps them along into trying to seize Itzcoatl. These events wil have to be set in motion very soon, practically immediately, so Layannaâ€™s exit of the scene is set.

If youâ€™d like to change the Kicker in such a way that An-Ara is present when Layanna learns of the full proceedings, please realize that the messenger tells only about the â€œmurderâ€ of the Servitors at the hands of Itzcoatl. He might mention the death of Pac Utal, but itâ€™s unlikely that he knows about the death of Ixcal. Thatâ€™s important for how and why Layanna is informed of the proceedings.

Happy to receive suggestions regarding her background and ties to the plotlines.

Grettir wrote:

I see youâ€™ve chosen not to spend you Insight from Pac Utal on An-Ara; fair enough.

Yep, I want to save it for the next game.

Grettir wrote:

First of all â€“ what age is An-Ara?

Maybe mid-twenties?

Grettir wrote:

About that Kicker â€“ itâ€™s not clear to me into what direction you would like to take it from there.

The idea is that it is made clear to An-Ara that nobody can protect her from what is coming. All her life she has -- perhaps without being consciously aware of it -- relied on Pac and P'Tarn to be responsible so that she can be irresponsible and lead the life of her choosing. She, perhaps, is free but it is a freedom that relies on the skill and hard work of others.

She learns, in quick succession, that P'Tarn has been arrested, that the family have been implicated in the death of the god. All her life her brothers have protected her from the consequences of her actions. Now she is caught up, hopelessly, in the consequences of theirs. Her ultimate trump, her ally, is also implicated (I am assuming you are happy for Layanna to be the one responsible for poisoning the god).

Grettir wrote:

I see the need for immediate action â€“ do something to â€œsaveâ€ Pac â€“ but I donâ€™t quite see any difficult decision.

I see the need for immediate action â€“ do something to â€œsaveâ€ Pac â€“ but I donâ€™t quite see any difficult decision.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

OK, I'll work on it.

You donâ€™t have to if you donâ€™t want to, but then you invite me to â€œspikeâ€ An-Araâ€™s Kicker. While I donâ€™t mind doing that, thereâ€™s of course the possibility that you wonâ€™t like the twist I might introduce.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

I am assuming you are happy for Layanna to be the one responsible for poisoning the god.

Conners, now that Crow Caller seems to have returned it may well be that we will in the next weeks re-commence playing the campaign. What I would like to know under these circumsances is wether you are still interested in participating or not. It's totally ok if you want to abstain from it, and I can even understand it very well -- after all I have immediately warned you that this campaign is very different from what you are used to and might not be to your tastes when you first asked about joining us. So it's really cool should you have changed your mind, and no hard felings whatsoever from anybody -- just pop by and tell us wether it is so, please.

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