Mmm what I meant was forcefully controlling their every speech actions and thoughts such that they become sort of like a puppet. And by controlling the boss, the boss is forcefully made to shut down the seafood business... and then he is slowly guided to a better workforce.

Mmm what I meant was forcefully controlling their every speech actions and thoughts such that they become sort of like a puppet. And by controlling the boss, the boss is forcefully made to shut down the seafood business... and then he is slowly guided to a better workforce.

But how about using magic? Like why don’t bodhisattvas use mind control on the killer or the boss of the seafood shop? Like they could make the boss quit the seafood shop and let him start a better non-killing job.

If that were possible there would be no samsara.

Yup. I think sometimes interventions are possible but the karma of beings is so diverse it's just not possible for a 'divine intervention' to occur every time someone engages in nonvirtue.As was pointed out, how could samsara remain if that were so? If the causes and secondary conditions are present then a result corresponding to those causes and conditions will occur. If beings have accumulated the tendency to engage in harm, then intervening once might not be enough. Even if it were there would need to be some kind of previous connection with any of the parties involved to act as a secondary condition.

Last edited by Vasana on Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

As far as I understand, a big portion of the nutrition of the world's population depends on seafood. There would be starvation without.
If we saw and understood the complete interdependence of phenomena we would have infinite equanimity and compassion.

I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

But how about using magic? Like why don’t bodhisattvas use mind control on the killer or the boss of the seafood shop? Like they could make the boss quit the seafood shop and let him start a better non-killing job.

I think you might need to go back to some basics, Matthew. There is no 'magic' in that sense.
People can compel other people to live in a way that they think is more virtuous..that is called 'fascism'.

We each make our choices. Depending on our motivation we create karma. The karma then ripens and we experience it as vipaka, either 'good' 'bad' or 'neutral'..

Many Vajrayana followers hold to the teaching that says that we can aid sentient beings with appropriate mantras..Sentient beings includes crabs AND bosses of seafood shops.

If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition.
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

And I would suppose that mantras used in vajrayana to help these sentient beings be happy and well would require these sentient beings to have karma to be helped? If they do not have the karma to be helped, how else can we help them?

All sentient beings generate karma. Dedicating mantras to them is to move them towards Enlightenment. They may or may not be happy and well in the short term.

Being happy and well can be a result of Dharma..but it is not the aim of Dharma.
The aim of Dharma is nothing less than Enlightenment..and Enlightenment is beyond all opposites, including happiness and unhappiness.

If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition.
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Your compassion is very commendable, Matthew, and your intense frustration with samsara can generate a marvelous aspiration. But pretty soon, before you become despondent and quit, you should consider taking a step back to actually learn what Buddhadharma is and is not. Finding a teacher is the best, but you can start with books and classes.

In my opinion, your dreams of immediately becoming a renunciate in Nepal and a savior for all sentient beings (or goading bodhisattvas to use their magic), besides contradicting each other, do not actually correspond with the magnificent truth of Buddhadharma.

We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

I Guess I don’t really understand the buddhadharma then. Is there any books you would recommend to me ?

You must understand Dharma. You should read Treasury of Dharma. Now we have reached the human realm, now is the time for practicing the Dharma. You should study basics, and you should connect with a truly enlightened Guru. You have a great deal of potential.

I Guess I don’t really understand the buddhadharma then. Is there any books you would recommend to me ?

What is it about Buddhism that has gotten your attention? What have you already heard about it? You've got an excellent "hook" for it: you seem to really care about living beings and you're very frustrated with the fact that conventional life sucks at a deep and complicated level. That's the First Noble Truth: suffering is pervasive. You're motivated to do something, you just don't know what. That's the Second Noble Truth: there are causes for suffering that can be addressed.

I'm not a teacher on any level. I'm just picking my way through the thicket trying to follow the path as it presents itself. There are many on DW much more in tune than me, and some of them have already chimed in with very insightful advice for you. I can't suggest a starter book for you, but if you can give a picture of your experience and your circumstances, there's a good chance someone here can. It's happened for me on DW (and elsewhere in my personal path) a number of times.

Your path is necessarily integrated with your present circumstances. But it is a path, not a definitive, instantaneous fix. Those are the Third and Fourth Noble Truths: there is a cure, but it is realized by means of a path.

We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

I got guided to Buddhism because I wanted to be a vegetarian and dedicate merits to my grandpa. Then after like about 2 years or so, I started to get inclined towards TB , because to me, it seemed mysterious and magical ( this is actually a good thing to me ) . Is there any thing I should learn beforehand - like the basics and Mahayana basics? I think I should really need these because for now - I don’t think I quite have the foundations yet. Please help

I got guided to Buddhism because I wanted to be a vegetarian and dedicate merits to my grandpa. Then after like about 2 years or so, I started to get inclined towards TB , because to me, it seemed mysterious and magical ( this is actually a good thing to me ) . Is there any thing I should learn beforehand - like the basics and Mahayana basics? I think I should really need these because for now - I don’t think I quite have the foundations yet. Please help

Yes, the book I recommended is a very good start. Treasury of Dharma by Geshe Rabten.

Hello. I would like to ask why if bodhisattvas have so much power, why when I pray to them sometimes for help... like one time I was praying for the crabs who are about to get killed.. hoping bodhisattvas would manifest as people and buy them to be released to the sea. Like if they have so much power , they could perhaps stop fish slaughter or seafood slaughter Using supernatural ways right...? I’m not sure. Sometimes i wonder why they don’t appear in wrathful forms to scare away the fish killers or seafood restraunt owners so they can stop the killing. Right now I’m a bit filled with doubt now... so please help.

I was listening to a Dharma talk from a Tibetan Buddhist. She said when we think of Bodhisattvas and Buddhas we tend to think of them outside our mind. We are taking teachings specific to mind training and making both literal beings. How she put it is we externalize boddhisattvas and buddhas from our mind so we can internalize them to be the enlighten mind of the bodhisattvas and thereby The Buddha himself.

So, instead of calling for the boddhisattvas to help as external beings by literally externalizing them to internalize them YOU through their enligtened mind help sentient brings such as crabs.

What can you do by your actions to plant seeds in others karma in hopes that that persons karma will "bloosem" to think about the crabs life as your own? Also, I started thinking in a way saying if someone does something I dont like, it is their karma that they will work through and although its affecting me consciously, its not my karma so thats as far as it gets.

If there is nothing you can outwardly do, prayers and just doing things to gain merit (other actions) towards your goal will help. This is all acting as a bodhisattva or buddha mind in doing so. Meditation helps a lot.

I started of with In The Buddha's Words. Its the Pali suttas but it gives you an idea of The Buddha's life, his decision to teach, why, and what about. The sutras (mahayana) bounces off these root teachings. Commentary books like Zen Mind Beginner's Mind helps from a Soto Zen perspective.

Any basic book on The Buddha's life would help. The Teachings of The Buddha gives a Pure Land view. All so far I know has some sort of meditation involved.

[The Buddha says to his monks], when he opens his mouth to expound or when he reads the sutra, he should not delight in speaking of the faults of other people or scriptures. He should not display contempt for other teachers of the Law or speak of the good or bad, the strong or weak points of others. -Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra