They wouldn't be at their mercy ,though they sure would have to use all their resources to withstand what Lor'themar is about to unleash.

Again, that's a matter of opinion. For all we know the Kirin'tor might simply shrug off the assault and send the Forsaken/Sin'dorei packing once more. If that is there approach to trying to get back into Dalaran's good books and take their quarter back, I fear for their skills of diplomacy.

Originally Posted by Combatbulter

It is in no way enough to consider them a different race. Do you have a canon source for the different skin colors, the only time I recall it was mentioned was in the rpg books, which are non canon.

Q: How did the blood elven fel eye glint become so widespread? The Warcraft Encyclopedia suggests that Rommath only taught the blood elves of Azeroth about how to siphon arcane magic, as most of the populace would likely be "horrified" if they knew the true extent of Kael’s dealings with Illidan.
A: The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel’Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs’ skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.

Ah I had forgotten about the Q&A. Nonetheless, the differences however minor and cosmetic, are strong enough both psychologically and historically for Sin'dorei/Quel'dorei to consider themselves different races; that's what counts. In the same way that Undead consider themselves Forsaken, as opposed to simply Undead Humans.

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1." - Cranmer's Law

But aren't we specifically discussing war crimes? For example, fire mages are a walking war crime if you try to apply our "how war should be fought" morality to the game. Sure, you can apply very basic morality to the game, but when you start getting into more nitpicky things like war crimes, the comparisons will quickly fall apart.

I can't see why it wouldn't, even to fire mages, provided fire mages killed innocents.

Storm, Earth and Fire looks pretty good for fights like Garalon or other fights with 2 or 3 targets, like Will of the Emperor.

Yeah, the idea was that Windwalkers had 0 options for cleave. It's basically a more permanent blade-flurry. Lower your single target damage, gain damage across a second target. Looking at the OP's post, though, there's the potential that these illusions will be targetable, and they last indefinately (thereby lowering your single target damage on X until the illusion finishes killing it's mark.

WW's definately needed the cleave though, they do well with SCK on mass-AOE, but had 0 options for cleave fights causing them to seriously get benched for rogues/warriors with some form of multi-targeting (blade flurry, sweeping strikes).

Q: How did the blood elven fel eye glint become so widespread? The Warcraft Encyclopedia suggests that Rommath only taught the blood elves of Azeroth about how to siphon arcane magic, as most of the populace would likely be "horrified" if they knew the true extent of Kael’s dealings with Illidan.
A: The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel’Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs’ skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.

The skin/hair colour thing could I suppose be gleaned from comparing the Sunreaver NPCs to the SC ones, who are far more uniform in their hair and skin colour. I think there are contradictions here with WC3/TFT, though, where e.g. the high elven sorceresses had dark hair.

Again, that's a matter of opinion. For all we know the Kirin'tor might simply shrug off the assault and send the Forsaken/Sin'dorei packing once more. If that is there approach to trying to get back into Dalaran's good books and take their quarter back, I fear for their skills of diplomacy.

That is assuming a lot, what the sindorei mobilized so far in this quest hub is impressive, saying otherwise is foolish as well as to assume the Kirin Tor can just shrug it off, they will counter it of course, but the question is with what.

Originally Posted by Alenarien

Ah I had forgotten about the Q&A. Nonetheless, the differences however minor and cosmetic, are strong enough both psychologically and historically for Sin'dorei/Quel'dorei to consider themselves different races; that's what counts. In the same way that Undead consider themselves Forsaken, as opposed to simply Undead Humans.

I disagree, the only real difference are their political views, the rest is basically the same and unless blizzard decides to declare the encyclopedia non canon I won't budge from that statement.

Some may well be, but the quotation that people seemed to agree with was that somehow the Kirin Tor were going to be at the mercy of the Blood Elves/Sunreavers or the Horde. There's no reason whatsoever for presuming that.

The quotation however, defeats itself. There are physiological/biological differences; the green eyes and generally darker hair/skin hues, in the same way that the Orcs of Orgrimmar are physiologically/biologically different to their Mag'har cousins who refused to drink the blood of Mannoroth.

I'm not so sure about that. The Sin'dorei are too young and their foray into all things Fel too recent for there to be any descendants with green eyes, as opposed to Orgrimmar Orcs, and there's not a great evidence to support Mag'har having turned green on account of Grom et all having done so via demon blood, so i'm not sure how High Elves would suddenly find themselves with green eyes for being near a source of Fel.

---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 09:24 PM ----------

I believe in lore, Thrall was captured due to be unprepared for an Alliance ambush.

I reckon if Thrall was aware of the enemy at hand he could probably summon an earthquake or two to destroy an entire army; this being the same Orc who with the help of two others, stopped the world from collapsing in on itself with the temporary destruction of the World Pillar.

Frostwolf clan did not drink the demon blood. Durotan, Draaka, and Drek'thar found their skin turned green just from being near the other Orcs and the Warlocks.

Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

Originally Posted by Alsompr

Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

I am saying they are still the same race and if their eyes change, hell if their hair color becomes purple it is no reason to declare them a different race the differences are just too small.

I suppose it may take a generation or two before fel has an impact on their evolutionary trajectory, provided it isn't purged from them.

---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 10:01 PM ----------

Originally Posted by DFu4ever

Actually, I pointed out fire mages because it is currently frowned upon to use weapons like napalm on an enemy.

I see. That is a pretty circumstantial thing though. The principle behind it would be something like not to inflict torture, I guess. So whilst what counts as "torture" may vary due to the presence of magic in Azeroth e.g. blunting the impact fire has on the body, the underlying principle would not change if correct.

They don't actively drain fel from those suspended crystals anymore. Whether they've stopped using it entirely is a different question. I doubt it. Blizzard need to write some new lore on this, frankly, because if warlocks can corrupt merely by proxy the corruption would be on-going so long as fel usage continued by some amongst the race.

They don't actively drain fel from those suspended crystals anymore. Whether they've stopped using it entirely is a different question. I doubt it. Blizzard need to write some new lore on this, frankly, because if warlocks can corrupt merely by proxy the corruption would be on-going so long as fel usage continued by some amongst the race.

They used fel crystals to power their city those are gone now, they were the primary source of corruption.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Neither the horde nor the Alliance was there in force to stop Kael and the Burning legion so considering the circumstances it was not a lot of help around ;P

yeah the SSO didn't really need the Horde or Alliance to be there I mean they had the Naaru, I mean it wasn't an easy fight but at the same time there weren't a lot of Blood Elves or Draenei there I mean it was basically just a contingent of Shattrath's forces there and they did fine stopping the legion