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Trying to think of the last time a casino/hotel opened up that wasn't trying to go "upscale" one way or another. I think of places on the Strip, Downtown and "off-strip" and I have a hard time thinking of one. Every time a place remodels or gets imploded/replaced, it is always with a something that wants to appeal to the high end gambler. Even the most recent off-strip places seem to be higher end. Now, obviously, any new place is going to have some buzz and be able to charge a bit more and that's understandable. But it seems like every place has decided they want to compete with the Wynn, even when that is laughable. In every other business I can think of, you always have new entries competing in all segments of the market. Would a mid-level property with moderate room rates, good values in food and beverage and fair gaming have no chance? Or is it just greed? What's funny is how many of these places have failed so badly that they are practically giving away rooms to anyone who spends a few hours gambling. Anyone else with any thoughts?

Why would they build a new dumpy casino? There are already plenty of run-down dumpy casinos in town that cater to the "value" gambler. If you wanted to build a casino, you wouldn't aspire to attract the clientele from Palace Station.

What do you consider the higher end gambler? I'm a low roller and love it at Gold Coast, Palms, Orleans, Red Rock, SunCoast, Santa Fe Station, or SIlverton for example. Red Rock is really nice and caters to all kinds.

Every time a place remodels or gets imploded/replaced, it is always with a something that wants to appeal to the high end gambler.

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It is expensive to build and start up a new hotel/casino and if you are a business you don't want to go after the poor/cheap/down-trodden/broke customer where its going to take you 40-60 years to recoup your investment.

Plus the costs to fancy up a place are high, but not that high when compared to the construction and land costs: if you are going to spend a few hundred million to put up a hotel and casino why not spend an extra $100-200 million on nice stuff to make it high end where you'll be able to charge 2-3 times the room rates, raise the casino limits and put in overpriced restaurants and bars?

I think the answer will be one of the newer off-strip places: Aliante, Eastside Cannery, Red Rock, South Point or Silverton are all contenders and opened in the last ten years, depending on your definition of 'value' (eg. Red Rock has pricey rooms, a cheap buffet, decent VP, fairly low table minimums)

Aliante is one of the best value new casinos, and very nice if not spectacular. It's just not near anything else. It has the best video poker odds in Las Vegas, if that's your game, including full pay Double Bonus, Double Double Bonus, and Deuces Wild. All have a theoretical payout over 100% with perfect play. According to VP Free, Eastside Cannery has one game over 100% (Double Bonus). I have not been there so cannot comment on other things.

Trying to think of the last time a casino/hotel opened up that wasn't trying to go "upscale" one way or another. I think of places on the Strip, Downtown and "off-strip" and I have a hard time thinking of one. Every time a place remodels or gets imploded/replaced, it is always with a something that wants to appeal to the high end gambler. Even the most recent off-strip places seem to be higher end. Now, obviously, any new place is going to have some buzz and be able to charge a bit more and that's understandable. But it seems like every place has decided they want to compete with the Wynn, even when that is laughable. In every other business I can think of, you always have new entries competing in all segments of the market. Would a mid-level property with moderate room rates, good values in food and beverage and fair gaming have no chance? Or is it just greed? What's funny is how many of these places have failed so badly that they are practically giving away rooms to anyone who spends a few hours gambling. Anyone else with any thoughts?

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Eastside Cannery is the answer to your question. They aren't trying to be upscale, they cater to low-rollers and they have great values in F&B, along with low room rates.

Your post is valid for the strip, but off-strip properties cater to locals and their business models ooze value, so even as nice as Red Rock is, it has prices and offerings for locals, and value gamblers. After all it is a Stations property.

I think of Aliante and both Cannery places (Arizona Charlies Boulder?) as more or less recent places that don't play the faux-upscale game. Also with M and South Point. Of course none of those are anywhere near the Strip.

Closer to the Strip, whatever replaces San Hooters will probably be quite a bit downscale from most.

Trying to think of the last time a casino/hotel opened up that wasn't trying to go "upscale" one way or another. I think of places on the Strip, Downtown and "off-strip" and I have a hard time thinking of one. Every time a place remodels or gets imploded/replaced, it is always with a something that wants to appeal to the high end gambler. Even the most recent off-strip places seem to be higher end. Now, obviously, any new place is going to have some buzz and be able to charge a bit more and that's understandable. But it seems like every place has decided they want to compete with the Wynn, even when that is laughable. In every other business I can think of, you always have new entries competing in all segments of the market. Would a mid-level property with moderate room rates, good values in food and beverage and fair gaming have no chance? Or is it just greed? What's funny is how many of these places have failed so badly that they are practically giving away rooms to anyone who spends a few hours gambling. Anyone else with any thoughts?

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You have to look at locals places. They are places that new based on location they would not get stupid tourist players, and modelled the business with cheaper gambling as part of the offerings.

A new strip resort is never going to open at the bottom of the market, it simply makes no financial sense.

Even many of the places that get fondly remembered on here for catering to low rollers (Sahara, Riviera, Stardust, Barbary Coast, etc) did not get opened targetting the bottom of the market. As they aged and newer places went up, they had to offer better deals to compete. And since they are all gone for one reason or another you can guess how that worked out.

You know that game where two people alternate places their hands higher on a baseball bat until there is no more room? That is what the strip is like. Everyone aims to come in at the top (where the money is highest), But if you came in at the top 15 years ago, you may not be there any longer.

What about LINQ? I don't see it being an upscale property. Heck, there's Beer Pong in O'Sheas. Granted the "new" O'Sheas and LINQ are a far cry from the old IP and O'Sheas, but I still don't see the new version being upscale.

To me it offers a "hip" value hotel center strip. $5 tables abound, and I don't get a sense they're necessarily looking to attract huge amounts of action.

Paris was the last strip hotel that wasn't deisgned to draw "five star" customers. Even then, it was geared towards the higher end of the mid market. I don't think you can do new construction on the strip that caters to the value customer. The construction costs would have to come in well under $1B and it may not be possible anymore. For the lower end of the spectrum, the best you can hope is that the ownership has the vision to refresh and/or rebrand in a way that can maintain a lower price point and that they don't feel they would be better off impldoing in favor of a high end hotel or worse, something non-casino related.

Well, there's a difference between a random $5 game and $5 as the standard. Last week it seemed like $5 craps and BJ was about all they had at LINQ, with some $10 thrown in toward the evenings.

My comment was simply if you're looking for a new/remodeled property on the strip that caters to gamblers wanting value for their money (I'm defining value here as low limit) LINQ has to be the go-to. If by value you mean not necessarily low limit, but better odds/ROI, then I think you have to leave strip entirely. And you're certainly right if you want cheap eats, LINQ isn't necessarily friendly there. Although CET is better comps than most on strip, but still not as good as off.

So that's probably the first step in answering the question is what you mean by value.

Aliante is one of the best value new casinos, and very nice if not spectacular. It's just not near anything else. It has the best video poker odds in Las Vegas, if that's your game, including full pay Double Bonus, Double Double Bonus, and Deuces Wild. All have a theoretical payout over 100% with perfect play. According to VP Free, Eastside Cannery has one game over 100% (Double Bonus). I have not been there so cannot comment on other things.

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Things must have changed since we lived there because these were the paytables at Aliante in 2010.
BP 7/5
DB 9/6
DDB 8/5.
I should add, that was at all the bartops.

A strip casino/hotel cannot survive off the low limit, good rules, good pay tables, cheap eats model. Just no margins to make enough to justify the cost of their location and build out. The ones that do that now are older properties and if they are in a desirable location they will get bought and destroyed. See Bills, Riviera, Holiday Inn Boardwalk, etc. Their land value was worth more then the casino was making so it makes no sense to keep them open.

The Linq is your best bet for a new strip property that has decent value. Good priced rooms for the location. Cheap eats are close by, and they have low limits, although not the best rules for bj.

I get what the OP means. I cringe every time a property is imploded for a new one. Boutique , celebrity chefs , nightclubs, dayclubs are what the upper management think is in right now. As long as they replace the carpet and paint the walls once in awhile I will be content to stick with the older properties. Every hotel/casino ( on the strip ) built after Venetian has been too fru fru for us. A nice room is great but we don't want the high food/drink prices and high resort fees that go with that. If I ever stayed at the W I would wind up eating across the street at the mall for my entire stay. The popular hotels on most of these boards are places that I would never stay. Cosmo, Aria, Cromwell....nope wouldn't stay for free. I like history, old dives and old slots. Another drawback with new hotels is all new slots. I love my reels. The husband loves walking the strip....otherwise our entire stay would be at South Point or Eastside Cannery. Those hotels have the type of dining we like along with less expensive amenities and rooms.

Yeah, those bartops are sometimes not the best play. VP Free shows 5 quarter 10/7 DB's "near" Marilyn's Bar at Eastside. I have not been there to verify. I have been to Aliante and have played both FPDW and FPDB there.