To fully support the NSA in this is unamerican almost by definition. Everything that is good about the very idea of America run contrary to this disgraceful behaviour by the NSA. Just look at the countries you have compared the US to. Israel? Russia? One is a present-day apartheid state with a disgusting human rights record, and whose leader couldn't even go to Mandela's funeral because it would have been too awkward. China and Russia are too obvious to talk about.

If you have any real interest in your own nation's culture and history, you will reflect on what you are supporting. The whole point of America as an idea is that it's supposed to be different from the other countries you mentioned.
Snowden has exposed America (and the UK) as fraudulent and hypocritical. You really sound like you would be much happier in Weimar Germany, or communist East Germany, to be honest.

I would suggest you stop being frightened of terrorists and monsters under the bed, and reconsider what it means to be patriotic. Snowden, in regards to exposing the NSA, is not a traitor but a true American who is helping all of us see how far our governments have gone beyond the boundaries of what is right.

I'd love a response to the following question: do you believe in America as a free, democratic nation, based on the inalienable rights of individual liberty and equality? If so, don't you think your people should be able to vote for, or at least be aware of, complete surveillance of their lives? Personally, I'm disgusted with the US, and the UK for the extent of the spying that is taking place. It's actually quite shocking that the general public haven't been more upset. Really, I think, with due respect, you're completely out to lunch buddy.

Posted via CB10

Snowden is a traitor. ...why leak this information during a Democrat administration if he's been working as a contractor since the bush years? You know why,he'd be a dead man had he leaked it when the war criminals bush and Cheney were in office.

Snowden is a traitor. ...why leak this information during a Democrat administration if he's been working as a contractor since the bush years? You know why,he'd be a dead man had he leaked it when the war criminals bush and Cheney were in office.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

So you admit that Cheney is evil? Tell me again whys he's a traitor. He did the American people a service and he could not expose this information through legal channels. The system is illegal in the first place...

He would ruin his life to work for Russia or China? Get real... he wanted to expose the NSA of its illegal actions...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925

And that he did big time. Now it's up to the moderate people of the world to take a position on this and prevent this from ever happening again anywhere else. The infiltration of private spaces in the name of safety and security is not what freedom and democracy stand for and why so many people across the globe laid down their lives.

I've seen loads of arguments for and against in this thread but I'm not convinced that what the NSA did was necessarily effective or constitutional. Several posts ago it was stated that the NSA attempts did not result in thwarting any terror plot (searched but can't find the post now) and that would not surprise me at all if true. There are plenty other ways to defend a democratic society. My two cents.

And that he did big time. Now it's up to the moderate people of the world to take a position on this and prevent this from ever happening again anywhere else. The infiltration of private spaces in the name of safety and security is not what freedom and democracy stand for and why so many people across the globe laid down their lives.

I've seen loads of arguments for and against in this thread but I'm not convinced that what the NSA did was necessarily effective or constitutional. Several posts ago it was stated that the NSA attempts did not result in thwarting any terror plot (searched but can't find the post now) and that would not surprise me at all if true. There are plenty other ways to defend a democratic society. My two cents.

Posted via CB10

It's fact that what they did was not cost effective at all to catch terrorists... or whatever they are actually looking for...

But I would still say, stopping nsa on breaching phone securities would put the public's mind in peace.

And there has already been quite a bit of discussion in the US Congress of doing precisely that, as well as a presidential commission on this.

NONE of that would have gotten ANYWHERE in this country if it were not for what Snowden did.

Originally Posted by stackberry369

Snowden is a traitor. ...why leak this information during a Democrat administration if he's been working as a contractor since the bush years? You know why,he'd be a dead man had he leaked it when the war criminals bush and Cheney were in office.

Which is why Snowden is smarter than the various under-the-bridge dwellers that love to snipe at him.

It's always hilarious to see US citizens waving the biggest flag they can find while talking out of their various orifices why being wary of the government is an evil thing.

You may want to review US history.

Originally Posted by mikr009876

I've seen loads of arguments for and against in this thread but I'm not convinced that what the NSA did was necessarily effective or constitutional. Several posts ago it was stated that the NSA attempts did not result in thwarting any terror plot (searched but can't find the post now) and that would not surprise me at all if true.

Not a question of making me feel better, I had no idea what your point was supposed to be.

Sorry your CB thing is screwing up. I only use that when I can't get to a "real" web browser.

I would like to know what your intended post was, when you get around to it.

As you can see from my CB10 app, it pulled one of your responses to systemvolker on another post and mixed it in as an apparent response to me. Thus my response, in retrospect makes no sense. Deleted it.

It's funny how easily so-called proud Americans **** on the principles their very own country is supposed to stand for. Freedom and Liberty, and all that...and then they support hard-core Communist-like surveillance. Real jokers.

It's funny how easily so-called proud Americans **** on the principles their very own country is supposed to stand for. Freedom and Liberty, and all that...and then they support hard-core Communist-like surveillance. Real jokers.

Posted via CB10

From your username it looks as if you are in the UK...don't you have more surveillance in the UK than anywhere else in the world? You have 1 surveillance camera for every 11 people.

Yes, I do live in the UK. What on earth does that do to diminish the validity of my statement? That's the logical equivalent of saying, 'We aren't child molesters because you molest more children than we molest'.

To answer your implied question, I don't support the UK's record on the issue either, which is why I didn't post something defending that disgraceful behaviour. The CCTV cameras are a completely different thing anyway. It's one thing to be on camera walking down a public street; it's another to be under surveillance in your home or hardware. I'm sure the difference is obvious?

And in case you think I'm guilty of being 'anti-american', whatever that actually means, I actually lived in the US for years, and have a degree from a US university. I love the US. Thankfully, in Britain, the public aren't as dreadfully brainwashed than in America, and very, very few people would stand up and defend the government spying on them.

I think it is a great shame that America is going down this path, and I think it's a shame that the UK is walking it with them.

Yes, I do live in the UK. What on earth does that do to diminish the validity of my statement? That's the logical equivalent of saying, 'We aren't child molesters because you molest more children than we molest'.

To answer your implied question, I don't support the UK's record on the issue either, which is why I didn't post something defending that disgraceful behaviour. The CCTV cameras are a completely different thing anyway. It's one thing to be on camera walking down a public street; it's another to be under surveillance in your home or hardware. I'm sure the difference is obvious?

And in case you think I'm guilty of being 'anti-american', whatever that actually means, I actually lived in the US for years, and have a degree from a US university. I love the US. Thankfully, in Britain, the public aren't as dreadfully brainwashed than in America, and very, very few people would stand up and defend the government spying on them.

I think it is a great shame that America is going down this path, and I think it's a shame that the UK is walking it with them.

Posted via CB10

Sorry, but I am totally confused here...then why don't UK citizens stand up and complain loudly since GCHQ does much more spying than the NSA.

You've posted an article from a BRITISH newspaper. The Guardian is obviously the newspaper most associated with the leak, and they continue to print daily articles. People here are far more openly critical than in the US. I think people should be more vocal, but that's human nature. The main difference is that a far higher percentage of Americans seem to be openly defending or supporting the privacy violations, as opposed to simply being silent apathetic about it. As I said, I think it's a damn shame. It's the sort of thing you would expect in Russia or China, but not the good ol' USA. We are all sleepwalking into a very uncomfortable future, and it's a damn shame that so many people think it's great.