2/03/2006

Lest they be confused about the basis of their impassioned arguments against civil rights, "Focus On The Family" will offer dvds to better educate people about the opinions they are supposed to have and actually tell them why they should have them. I think this move should be applauded, because much as I love blind obedience I think the attention to detail is representative of the new level of service we are coming to expect from our theocons. I'm thinking that a wingnut kiosk may be coming to a mall near you! Or... "Hatemongering for XBOX 360!". It seems that in today's changing world, its insufficient to use such time honored quips as "Cos God don't like it!" or "Cos its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" to influence those who advocate..well, wingnutterings. Here at the Noose, we're not sure why the simple threat of climate spite isn't enough- but in the interests of fairness, let's look at why the dvd on gay marriage talking points is so compelling: "...we've really overcome a lot of those arguments because of repetition. And this is an effort to put arguments in the same-sex marriage debate in people's hands so they can just know them."(continued)

Further:"We want people to understand that there are good, rational reasons for opposing same-sex marriage. It's not just that homosexuals are "yucky" or that "it's just a bad idea." There are very reasonable explanations for why this just doesn't stack up. And we offer those. And we offer them in such a way that reasonable people can hear them and say, "You know what, that makes perfect sense."

So it's come down to this, has it? Instructional dvd's to help people substantiate and justify positions that they have trouble defending on the merits of their own mental processes? Now call me an issue purist, but I think the burden of substantiating one's strongly held convictions rests with an individual. I can wholeheartedly appreciate that there are unknowns, and certain things we believe based on a number of reasons. We may choose to believe for example that a black cat is bad luck despite the lack of empirical evidence. That is our choice to buy into it, it does not infringe on others to believe it. The bar can be set pretty low on matters that just make us look like dumbasses.

But we are not talking about issues that do not impact the rights or liberties of others. We are talking about positions held by people who seek to limit the rights of others and in this blogger's humble view, they might at least go through the motions toward a basic understanding as to WHY they feel so strongly that other people should be denied something. What do you think?

This is the point where 'agreeing to disagree' becomes problematic. And why it is not a matter of simple debate. We are talking about people ASSISTING others with supporting positions given to them by another. A 'how to' guide for defending what people apparently don't have a very solid foundation in understanding.

Being fed an entree, then being told how to digest it. And ultimately, how to...never mind.

For Pete's sake, take the trouble to understand your hatred, and the basis, is that asking too much? Please, by all means take advantage of your dvd's and learn some talking points because we're tired of your brick wall. Ultimately, you cannot handle that we have a Constitution that supposedly makes it unlawful to decide matters of policy based on theocentric 'values'. Even if I myself were to agree, I would never concede that it has a place in law. To concede that contradicts what we purport to stand for, and I think we need to offer dvd's on the First Amendment!

21 comments:

Fundamentalists have spent many years denying their own thought processes, relying on the Bible to make their decisions until finally, they are unable to think for themselves.Then, after tithing their hard earned wages, they send even more money to the wingnut leaders for books and dvds that tell them how to think, since they are no longer able to do it for themselves.Then Pat buys a diamond mine in Africa, or stock in the Bank of Scotland........

All the argument I needed in the same-sex marriage debate was to be found on the faces of the thousands of happy same-sex couples that took their vows in City Hall two years ago. Perhaps the most life-afirming event I've ever witnessed.

I remember an IM conversation I had with a cousin back in Arkansas (quit snickering); she's about a dozen years older than me, and a smart lady to boot, but the subject of gay marriage came up...

I'm not openly gay with my entire family...although family gossip and common sense has me assured they KNOW mel's "that other way" as my mom put it to my future sis-in-law. But back to the subject...

My cousin said she really didn't have anything against gays marrying, although she suspected it would somehow 'cost the rest of us' as in $$$.

When I quit laughing, I told her the only thing that would change is that people who love and care for each other would be able to do so legally; and told her a few antecdotes I knew of personally of couples who had went through hospital stays without their lifepartner, because of their blood families' predjucies.

Then I reminded her of the old joke -- gays should be able to be just as miserable married as straight people are -- and she laughed and agreed.

People have said that predjudice is the result of ignorance...but I have found that not necessarily true. Predjudice springs from $$$ fears...and the ones promoting predjudice not only know better, but cynically use and twist others to their own means.

Be not afraid...evangelicism has always been on the back-burner in this country. It will wane again.

And besides, if the red states are so pure, why do they watch Desperate Housewives religiously?

Well if the idea that 'family' is the basic and preferred institution for all matters of self sufficiency- (you can ask Santorum about that) AND if monogamy is the best way to prevent disease AND abortion is to be outlawed- it seems that gay marriage would be a good thing in their eyes. People who are straight cannot understand how truly conflicting it is, with matters like the hospital situation you described. And we on 'the left' could do MORE to support our friends too.

Mel, I followed you over here from enigma's cafe. Your family story reminded me of a good one Randi Rhodes (on Air America) tells about her gay sister. She says their mom knew, but didn't really understand. For instance, mom kept wondering when sis would settle down & find the right man. When Randi reminded her that sis is happily gay, mom actually said (according to Randi) "Oh, she's not really gay, she's just found a better way to have sex" !!! D.K.

Seems to me that it's a technique borrowed from Dear Leader. His staff is forever making "instructional videos" to help the poor sod understand what things mean and what he should say (who can forget the one they made for Katrina, Academy Award that one was). It was just a matter of time before the crafty theocons picked up on the WH lead.

Yes, I guess there might be money to made in publishing "Wingnuts for Dummies".

Or do they have that already?

I for one would like to see the pleasant educated 'high road' hippies reduce themselves to THEIR level and express more outrage and righteous indignation. Kerry would've been in if we had. For Pete's Sake, we elected a cokehead DWI oil crook Guard-dodger.

TP, definitely not Ozzy's Randy, but I think she took her radio name from him. She's not for everyone, but I listen to her show online when I need an afternoon boost (got her on right now). D.K. www.airamericaradio.com

Well, the more the Teocrats spout off, the more they put off most people. Sure they will attract mentally stunted individuals who need to belong to something. But most will see them for what they are. These are the people who quote from the old testiment when they want to be punitive and punish, and quote from the new when they want to give the illusion of a loving bunch of people.

My folks are both Depression babies, and from the Deep South to boot. My policy with them has always been not to hide who I am, but not rub their noses in it, either. It was interesting how supportive they were when a 12 year realtionship I was in came to an end. Still didn't say the 'L' word, but my redneck dad who flunked the 2nd grade actually asked me rather gently if there was not a chance for reconcilliation. I almost dropped the phone! Then I realized he'd been retired for a coupla years, and apparently had been watching some Oprah. You gotta love 'em.

Totally off topic, but did anyone else but me get creeped out by the blogspot crash on Saturday? I was getting messages after it came back up from certain blogs that I wasn't 'authorized' to access. Is is just me, or are the NSA f*cktards trying to screw with our heads?

I guess you heard the Military is also going to be teaching a class called - "How not to marry a Jerk"...because Military divorce rates are way up...( so does that mean they think most women are jerks ???what a buch of fuckheads- and I would love to know how much the Pentagon spent on this? and why the moeny didn't go to PTSD care or maybe counseling for all the families...)

If you can't determine that killing people for a profession is perhaps not a rewarding career path, why would your judgement be better about spouses? Maybe there should be a class "how not to marry a jerk, and how not to be tested on by drug companies in the name of uncle sam...

I'm for Gay Marriage and Gay Unions. People might think that it's because I'm a liberal and it's part of a passle (is that a word) of issues that come with the label.

Oh, but it's not that at all. I think my issues through thoroughly and I have some reasons.

The first is brought up by this post, Lily. If the rapture righties and slantheads are against it, then it must be something good, pure, and right for the world.

The second is a matter of equality. I'm for all citizens being equal in opportunity and benefit . . .

Which brings me to the third reason. I happen to live in the largest "gay community" in one of the most liberal cities in America. Many of my close friends are gay. I've been married and I've gone through the pain, rage, and misery of divorce. I want to be able to, at some future time over drinks, look a friend in the eye and say, "I told you so."

I don't know about you, I have had gays steal my car, molest my chickens, (the male ones anyway) they have polluted my lakes and streams, my god they breed like rabbits, and they keep redecorating my living room, I think something should be done about this. perhaps they should mail a copy of the DVD, to Dick Cheney's daughter.

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