The system definitely has to rely on integrity from each individual user. It's pathetic think that anyone would get a feeling of pride or accomplishment by being dishonest and drafting behind a bus or riding in a car to get a KOM, but I'm sure they're out there.

Riding in a group can result in a faster time than an absolutely solo effort, fact, so there needs to be a separation, Group or Solo.

Using your example of the group reaching a hill then racing up, I know that my legs are much fresher when I reach a hill after having drafted on the approach, so my solo sprint time will be faster.

Your legs will be even more fresh if you drove your car to the start of the segment.

I do see the argument though. Personally I'd like the tag along with "windy" and "wet" really just for my own notes but if I cared that much, I'd put it in a comment or the description of each ride or something.

"c) it really just doesn't matter why someone else was faster than you"

If someone in a group takes your KOM, then ride in a group and take it back. It's about creating a fun competitive atmosphere, not being posessive and whining that someone else rode their bike faster than you, regardless of why. A win is a win and a loss is a loss, regardless of why it happened.

Because those are the rules. There are no such rules here, and if there were they would be unenforceable, at best. Also in races there are other rules, like that you have to qualify by being on a team that is invited, or in the correct category or age group if appropriate.

The thing you all have to keep in mind, is that this is all for fun. It's not a real race. Stop taking it so seriously.

Thank you Steve! This is why it is being asked for and if and when implimented it will be nice to see the difference. The point is many of us would like to see the difference. Clearly you have no desire to do so. You would be free to check all your rides as "group" to see how you stack up against a group of 6 or 10 riders should you choose to.

And John you are so right. There is always going to be someone that is faster.

Well, I disagree with Steve that "it doesn't matter why someone else was faster than you". If it didn't then why would Strava let people see just people in their age group, or weight class, or let women just see the other women? These are all reasons why someone could be faster than you which are *not* the result of lack of dedication or a flawed training regimen. If you're some woman who's 45 isn't going to look at the 25-year-old KOM and go "Wow, if I just really ratchet up my training, I can knock that dude off". He's got 20 years and testosterone on his side. So, Strava has the feature where you get to compare yourself to others in an "all else being equal" kind of thing... how do she stand against other 40-something women? If she's a close 2nd, then *that* is going to do more to make her amp up her training.

And, even if you're not comparing yourself to other riders, I can see the point in wanting to separate your *own* group vs. solo rides. Something that motivates me is setting new PR's. But I've got some group rides in Strava where there's just no way I'm going to touch those times when riding solo... so those segments turn into my recovery segments.

@Steve: Flat ground segments are silly? Okay, now that you've just called all of the cyclists in Kansas, Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Iowa, and Illinois pussies.... well, let me just say that, that kinda comes across as a "If it's not important to me, then it's not important, period" mindset.

Matt, clearly you missed my point.
Flat ground segments are a contest of who had the best tailwind.
As for the group thing I'm ok with the second poster who just wants to filter their own rides, but disagree with anyone who wants it to affect the overall results. Even if I were to stipulate that it mattered for fairness, there is no reliable way to truly know who was in groups or got the benefit from groups

as a counter point on this topic: I only care for my *own* efforts. There are segments that I do solo as well as in a group at varying times, and having a way to mark "I did this on a group ride" vs "I was out by myself" would be good for my own data parsing.

I've seen folks that stoop to using a car to get KOM's on Strava. For me the data isn't about me competing with others but competing with my previous times and seeing the improvements and how I'm doing *personally*. I'm not Ted King, so I'm out there for the fun, the fellowship, and the challenge. Someone will always be faster than me.

Well, I hadn't really considered that something like this should be grounds for displacing a KOM (and, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that group-vs-solo shouldn't matter on climbs.

As far as the flats... maybe we should leave it up to the locals. By that, I mean that, just like Strava allows people to flag segments as hazardous, perhaps people could flag segments as "draft-sensitive" or "draft-dependent"... (and it would need a certain number or percentage of supporting votes from others on the leaderboard).

If it got turned into a draft-sensitive segment, then the KOM would be the fastest solo dude (or dudette), but you could see both leaderboards, perhaps. And, very importantly, people will be able to override Strava's initial guess as to whether they were in a group or not (for example, if you did a group ride and then broke away from the pack before the city-limit sprint, then Strava would tag it as a group, but you could override it as a solo).

I had a thought this morning - if you designated your ride as a group ride, but KOM'd something while doing the work out front, it would be the same effort as if you were riding solo. This idea has too many flaws/holes to work properly. It's a great idea in theory, but as Steve says, it's IMPOSSIBLE to enforce.

Well, as Brian mentioned, he's seen people draft off of cars to try to snag a KOM. So, you'll always have some portion of cheaters, and there's no way to stop them.

I think what we're trying to solve, here, are the cases where honest, good-sportsmanship riders sometimes do group rides and then, like they do with all of their rides, upload them to Strava, and then there's some misleading data in the leaderboard. Of course this is going to depend upon these riders kinda self-reporting themselves, but I think there's a lot who would do so out of sportsmanship. I know that *I* would be one of the first in line to tag some of my group rides (even though it's going to cost me a few places in the flat-sprint leaderboards).

John Steventon wrote:"There's s few segments I've ridden which I know I'll never get KOM as they're won during a group ride. I could try getting my wife to drive in front of me and draft her though.... hmmmmm"

i like the idea of group or solo, strava records them anyway as far as times and doesn't differentiate, so at least this way can have a better idea. i would also like to be able to mark 'events' or official organised rides.

Seems a sensible feature to add - key point it shouldnt affect absolute Koms - just another way of distinguishing as per gender, age etc. as a 220 lb cyclist I don't feel too discriminated against given there is that button allowing me to compare against fellow porkers.....strava has been great as a motivational tool - anything that allows anyone to slice and dice a segment that makes them feel good has to be a positive I feel.

I would like this feature, not as much for the leader boards but for comparing my own efforts. As Steve pointed out, there are some challenges with grey areas between what constitutes a "solo" vs "group" effort that make it of limited use when comparing with others. I'm not competitive on the leader boards in my area anyway, and neither are 90% of the Strava users in popular areas like the Bay Area. For us mortals, much of the utility of segments comes from comparing our own rides against each other and shooting for PRs. As is, nearly all of my PRs for segments in my area I got while on group rides. So when I go out solo, I have absolutely no chance of getting a PR, even on climbs. For my own comparisons, I would like to maintain a "Solo PR" and a "Group PR" for segments. It is up to me to decide how I designate a ride. Ideally I could mark each effort as group or solo to cover rides where I start with a group and then break out solo, but that could get clunky.

In terms of the leader board, I agree that the overall "solo" leader board would probably not change much due to people not properly designating their rides, or defining "solo" differently from others. But it could be useful on club leader boards where members of the club could more easily call BS on a "fake solo" club KOM, since they often all know each other and go on group rides together. This would also open up a new leader board for groups, where you can get some buddies and try to TTT your way to a Group KOM on a segment that you may not be able to get the Solo KOM on.

I'd like this too. I joined up with a fast group recently. I was towed along, doing 80% effort and still got lots of PBs! My segment times werent at all representative of my effort.
I'd like to compare my segments with other local soloists, relying on their own efforts, not getting dragged along by a bunch of faster riders.
However, I can understand how someone who often rides with a big fast group would be reluctant to make the distinction.

I think it's fine as-is. The steep hills don't get much benefit from drafting, so there is generally little potential to 'cheat'. If you are drafting off someone and KOM'ing it, it's hard to imagine they aren't on strava too.

On the flats/downhills, they aren't truly "king of the MOUNTAIN" anyway, and drafting is a legitimate part if you can pull it off. Remember, at the top of the leaderboard, a drafting effort means you need a group of very fast disciplined people working in concert - TTT style. With even a fast "group ride," on the other hand, you are only going to go as fast as the 80-90% percentile. That might be faster than solo efforts, but it still leaves room for you and 3-4 similarly-matched friends to go out and try to engineer a perfect TTT pace line. And that isn't easy.. but it's a ton of fun. If you can pull that off down peachtree street.. you deserve the KOM!

As for motopacing a closed road... if you have that level of ethics, you are likely just going to drive it in your car anyway.

I want this so I can compare me to me. The "default" can be group efforts, but a simple checkbox or radio button would allow me to filter out other riders and only compare my solo efforts to my solo efforts.

1) I would recognize that the major attractions of my site are (a) competing against others (b) inspiring others, (c) meeting others and (d) being able to measure myself against myself. After all, I can upload my rides and see the data I need to a handful of other sites, but I won't have what I previously mentioned.

2) Classify KOM's in three separate categories: Group Ride, Solo, and, I'm not sure what to call it, but maybe Turf KOM? I.E. the person who has ridden it the most gets the turf KOM. That way you eliminate the scalping.

3) I would not agree that "faster is faster." I continuously lose KOM's to guys on bunch rides. That would be like expecting a breakaway to make it in a long distance race. That almost never happens, and especially not when the group chasing is motivated. You go anywhere between 2-???mph faster in a group.

4) I would add a like button to acknowledge peoples comments. (Thats probably the first thing I would do.)