befriend wrote:why do some monks take vows of silence for life? metta, befriend

what tradision are you on about? I only know of this in the christian monastic tradition and only the more cloistered ones!within buddhism this sort of behaviour is discouraged by the vinaya as there is an encouragement to talk to each other about problems with practice, difficulties, or even personal issues with another, see the ten topics of conversation, or admonishment on access to insight/Buddhist Monastic Code. and as right speech is also part of the path....

edit - I should point out that needless talking is discouraged.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

I couldn't remember which scene that was in my python knowledge is waning since I havn't watched it in over 2 years but I shall guard my memory with a nine bladed sword not 2 not 5 not 7 but a nine bladed sword or I will not be able to find what was put there only the night before by my father http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmyuE0Np ... re=related

but

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

thanks for the apology. vows of silence dont sound that far fetched as meditators observe noble silence on retreats, and talking for entertainment isnt very condusive to eradicating desire. metta, befriend

to practice patience with others rough speech, perceive there words as only sound, patience is the path to nibbana.

Viscid wrote:A vow of silence has some similarity to a dhutanga: an austerity which distances one from worldliness, and reinforces commitment to their practice.

yeah but it isn't a dhutanga! out of the thirteen speaking isn't covered!

noble silence isn't the same as a vow of silence and is what I described above.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

In my personal experience, two things are not that hard: talking too much, or not talking at all. What is more challenging is talking only when necessary, or only when it is conducive to the benefit of self or others.

Viscid wrote:A vow of silence has some similarity to a dhutanga: an austerity which distances one from worldliness, and reinforces commitment to their practice.

yeah but it isn't a dhutanga! out of the thirteen speaking isn't covered!

I know, I know. 'has some similarity to' meaning someone might be motivated to make a vow of silence for the same reasons that one make undertake a few dhutangas. It's a way to live which may be beneficial for their practice. (Though I imagine for Christians, such a vow could be a gesture of obedience to God)

perkele wrote:I remember a sutta where the Buddha admonishes a group of monks for their having taken on the practice of silence during the rains retreat and not talked to each other.

Ah yes, but what is the context?

There is also another sutta where the Buddha admonishes Sariputta and Mogallana Theras for bringing a bunch of 500 chattering and rowdy monks to the forest where the Buddha was abiding. The Buddha up and left, whereupon Sariputta and Mogallana went and requested the Buddha to continue to lead the sangha.kind regards,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

perkele wrote:I remember a sutta where the Buddha admonishes a group of monks for their having taken on the practice of silence during the rains retreat and not talked to each other.

Ah yes, but what is the context?

There is also another sutta where the Buddha admonishes Sariputta and Mogallana Theras for bringing a bunch of 500 chattering and rowdy monks to the forest where the Buddha was abiding. The Buddha up and left, whereupon Sariputta and Mogallana went and requested the Buddha to continue to lead the sangha.kind regards,

Ben

There is another sutta Identical in almost all details to the one perkele mentioned and I mentioned in my first post on this thread!the bigest difference is that the monks talked Dhamma or meditated together on observance nights (that is my impression anyway but may be wrong in the reason for the meeting?) and only talked what was nececery! no needless chatter or silence, when there was a problem they tried to sort it out! they discussed the training and their insights with each other! that is the difference, the context although I do not have the relevant text at hand does seam to be the inclination to be extream with the speech either in silence or chatter! and if you look at the speech aspect of the texts (sutta & vinaya) it is very detailed, and there are some rules which can be broken by speech even if it is not a rule directly related to speech, take murder & theft from the Patimokha as example both can be broken via speech not solely ones own body action.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."