[quote=GTripp0012;441358]There is a solid era discrepency between the two. I do think Moon was a fringe hall of famer, but McNair is no where near fringe. I'm not pissed that Moon is in--he was very deserving, but if McNair gets considered, then Matt Hasselbeck, [B]Chad Pennington[/B], Marc Bulger, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Mark Brunell all need to get similar consideration for the Hall. All have had dominant NFL seasons to date, and solid careers, which is the best we could say about McNair.[/quote]

Honestly, compared to some of the other names that are in the Hall of Fame, those names do not seem to be that unjustifiable (with the [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]exception[/FONT][/COLOR] of the highlighted). I am not saying that they are elite, 1st round ballots or completely worthy. I am just saying that they deserve consideration when you think about some other QB's that have made it.

MTK

04-22-2008 05:02 PM

Re: Ravens QB Steve McNair Announces Retirement

How the hell did Chad Pennington get into this discussion? He hasn't even broken 14,000 yards passing.

prinzeofmoval

04-22-2008 06:52 PM

Re: Ravens QB Steve McNair Announces Retirement

[QUOTE=jsarno;441263]That by no means makes him a hall of famer.
Seriously, take a gander at Brunell's stats vs McNairs. Amazingly similar. SO if McNair makes it, so should Brunell.[/QUOTE]

dude Mcnair will go down in history the way Earl Campbell did..Mark Brunell what has he done in his career worth talking about? How many MVP seasons? So you can't even compare Brunell to Mcnair..

SmootSmack

04-22-2008 07:01 PM

Re: Ravens QB Steve McNair Announces Retirement

[QUOTE=prinzeofmoval;441669]dude Mcnair will go down in history the way Earl Campbell did..Mark Brunell what has he done in his career worth talking about? How many MVP seasons? So you can't even compare Brunell to Mcnair..[/QUOTE]

FYI. Brunell's career started long before he played for the Redskins

MTK

04-22-2008 07:08 PM

Re: Ravens QB Steve McNair Announces Retirement

[quote=prinzeofmoval;441669]dude Mcnair will go down in history the way Earl Campbell did..Mark Brunell what has he done in his career worth talking about? How many MVP seasons? So you can't even compare Brunell to Mcnair..[/quote]

So 1 co-MVP season instantly puts him on another level?

Once again as many have pointed out, if you compare Brunell's and McNair's numbers they are very similar.

jsarno

04-22-2008 08:48 PM

Re: Ravens QB Steve McNair Announces Retirement

[QUOTE=Angry;441357]JSARNO, I would also like to point out that the numbers are also a bit scewed in favor of Moon. He was in the run and shoot offense. He passed more, therefore throwing for more yards, touchdowns, and intercecptions. When you take that into consideration, then you are talking about essentially the same QB.[/QUOTE]

But you are forgetting longevity.
I'm not saying a mediocre at best player should get in cause he played 21 seasons...otherwise Vinny Testaverde would get in, and there is no way I'd vote for him. However, in the case of McNair vs Moon, if McNair played 17 seasons, then it might be a tougher argument.
You keep saying the numbers are similar, but what numbers are you referring to?
McNair's [b]career high[/b] in passing yards in a season was 3387. Moon threw for more than that 8 times in his career. You say it was cause of the run and shoot, but you need to understand that we are in a pass happy era as well. It used to be people would run to set up the pass, now it's the other way around.
I have no doubt he was a good qb...I always liked his game, but like I said, Moon had different circumstances to overcome that helped boost his HOF ballot. Let's face it, Moon was 28 when he cracked the NFL. That was wrong.

also,
In 17 seasons, Moon averaged 401 attempts a year, and averaged 237 yards per game.
In 13 seasons, McNair averaged 350 attempts a year, and averaged 194 yards per game.
So the 51 fewer attempts per year that McNair threw, that is only an average of 3.19 attempts per game. AT his completion rate of 60.1% over his career, that would mean 1.917 more completions per attempts. At 1.917 X his career 11.5 yards per completion, that equals 22 yards extra per game which means that would bring McNairs average per game to 216. Still 21 yards per game short. So the run and shoot did help Moon, but as you can see, Moon was just flat out better when you break it down.

jsarno

04-22-2008 09:00 PM

Re: Ravens QB Steve McNair Announces Retirement

[QUOTE=prinzeofmoval;441669]dude Mcnair will go down in history the way Earl Campbell did..Mark Brunell what has he done in his career worth talking about? How many MVP seasons? So you can't even compare Brunell to Mcnair..[/QUOTE]

Well, it looks like some others already talked about Brunell / McNair, so I don't need to beat a dead horse.
But I will make a comment on the Campbell / McNair comparison.
Campbell had 3 years where he lead the league in rushing yards and a top 7 5 times, had 2 years where he lead the league in rushing tds and a top 7 5 times. McNair had a top 7 in passing td's 1 time, and never had a top 7 in passing yards season.
Campbell was 8th all time when he retired. McNair is 28th.