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Why Would a Younger Woman Want to Date a Much Older Man?

Okay, Evan, I agree mostly with your opinion on younger men/older women. What do you say about the reverse? I mean, I can see why an older man would want to date a younger woman – physically that is, but why would a 28-year-old woman want to date a man 45 or more?

Penelope

Dear Penelope,

Beats the shit out of me.

I can totally understand why older men go for younger women. There’s no denying that they’re, for the most part, in better shape, with better skin, and less baggage from broken relationships. Time creates wisdom – but it also creates responsibilities and complications – mortgage, kids, career, etc. All of this makes dating more and more complex as we get older. It’s a lot easier for a man to take out a carefree, responsibility free, baggage free, wrinkle free 28-year-old, which is why so many men try to go in that direction. I’m not condoning this. I’m OBSERVING that it happens.

Still, most of them fail miserably, for the exact same reasons that I think Penelope is suggesting. Men want much younger women, but rarely do much younger women want older men. Put another way, if a woman has an array of other quality options closer to her age range, what incentives would she have to date a man who is SEVENTEEN YEARS OLDER?

She doesn’t NEED a guy who’s 45. She can find that same amazing guy at age 30. Or 35. Or 40.

Not many, I’m thinking.

Before any 40+ people get all hot and bothered about this – I am not judging. There is nothing wrong with aging. I do think people improve with age (my wife is nodding). But let’s not pretend that we, as a culture, don’t worship at the altar of youth. If you’re over the age of 40 and have ever said, “But I’m told I look five years younger than my age”, then you’re not immune to it yourself. But see, for men who covet younger women, it’s not whether you look good for your age – it’s what age you really are.

Because it’s competitive out there for all of us. People have choices. And nobody has more choices than a 28-year-old woman. If she wants to date a guy who is 6’2”, makes $400,000+, likes skiing, is within ten miles of her house and five years of her age, you know what? She could probably find him. All she has to do is go on Match.com, and wade through a few thousand applicants. The point is, she doesn’t NEED a guy who’s 45. She can find that same amazing guy at age 30. Or 35. Or 40. She doesn’t need a guy who will be taking Viagra when she’s sexually peaking at 43.

Don’t get me wrong, there are advantages in a 45-year-old guy. He’s probably a man. He’s got the job and the home and the car, and been divorced with a kid already. So if a woman finds it more appealing to just step into that world – to jump from the prolonged adolescence of the late 20’s into full-fledged settled-down womanhood – that could make sense.

Most of them are completely creeped out at the prospect of dating a guy who was alive when JFK was alive.

There are many other things that are attractive about older men. They embody wisdom and stability. They can afford nicer restaurants and vacations and have cultivated greater tastes in the arts. They’re more experienced, more chivalrous, and more likely to want to settle down than a twentysomething party boy.

And yet, they probably resemble Penelope’s dad more than they resemble her brother….

This is the most compelling reason behind why younger women might go for older men: they’re daddy substitutes. An older man’s going to be the strong, nurturing guy who takes care of her, teaches her, and treats her like a princess – the kind of relationship that she probably lacked growing up.

Hey, I’m no psychologist – just your friendly, neighborhood dating coach. But I do know women, and lots of women in their 20’s. And the truth is that most of them are completely creeped out at the prospect of dating a guy who was alive when JFK was alive. These women were born in the EIGHTIES. They grew up with computers. They’re contemporaries with Britney Spears. Whether we like it or not, there is nearly a full generation gap between 28 and 45. A few women may bridge this gap for lust or money or dimestore psychological reasons, but most of the 28-year-old women I know would prefer to date a great, stable 30-40 year-old – who also knows what Snapchat is.

Okay, older men – tell me why I’m wrong. But don’t forget, you and your younger girlfriends are the EXCEPTION. I’m writing about the RULE.

By the way, my girlfriend wants it on record that she would totally sleep with Harrison Ford if he should be reading this. So as a gift to both of them: Sure, why not? Happy 66th, Indy!

Comments:

121

Danielle

There’s a group that seems to be left out of the responses. There are a few women like me that have already started and finished their families and do not want to start over again. I foolishly married my high school sweetheart and got divorced 9 years later. That means I’m 29 and a mother to a 3 year old and 5 year old. Quite frankly I have no desire to repeat the sleepless nights or slowdown the expansion of my business as another child would require. Obviously this clashes with the desires of the men since most have never married or had children.

This makes men forty and over match better for me. Many have already had their children and are not looking to expand their families. They understand the occasional canceling of a date due to a child’s sickness. These men are already stable in their careers and more understanding of the time commitments I have.
I have an amazing father and my grandfather lived next door to me growing up. I definitely don’t have “Daddy” issues. I will admit that the majority of men in their 40s treat me better than those in their 30s. However when did it become a bad thing for a man to open doors, pay for dates, etc? These men have had relationships and know how to make them work. They know foreplay begins at the start of the date and continues on so that by the time sex actually starts its much better and more satisfying than with a younger man.
Sadly, I feel that I have more in common with men that are in their late/early 40s then men my age.

I don’t know how old this post is but i just had to respond. I am a 50 year old woman, divorced. Be careful. Older guys for sure know how to treat a woman- they have lots more life experience. They also generally know they are not interested in raising anymore. Unless the guy has his own kids that are also young like yours are so they are in that life stage or they are childless and looking to have the ready made family, pay a lot of attention to his actions not his words. Lots of guys at this age are just exhausted from raising their own kids already. You will know what I mean when you get close to finishing raising yours. Even if they treat you nice, and most really well, if they are not offering to pay that is a BIG RED FLAG. Men in my generation grew up paying for dates with ladies. If they are interested in anything long term- they will pay
I will probably get flack for this from someone but guys that were “raised right” in my generation were raised to be providers. It would be hard to completely shake that

I’m 29 and my partner is 45. Before him I hadn’t dated anyone more than 4 years older/younger than me, although in hindsight I realized that I’ve always been more attracted to older men.

This is, by far, the best relationship I have ever had in every aspect – especially the physical!! We have many, many common interests and values. More importantly we have many common personality traits, so we understand each other and communicate very well. There’s a level of respect with him that I’ve never been able to find with men my own age.

I agree that in most cases, being at different life stages and one partner having more experience would be a major issue. We’ve found that in our particular case it doesn’t come into play at all. Financially we’re at the same point in our lives (both coming out of divorces with similar incomes and assets) so this isn’t a factor either.

Another huge bonus is that he already has children and isn’t interested in more. For a woman who has never wanted children of her own, this is a perfect scenario! I’ve found that the role of stepmother suits me just fine.

So what’s my point? I agree that the “rule” is likely that a woman going for an older man has ulterior motives. I just wanted to point out – as others already have – that sometimes the atrraction is genuine and the relationship just works.

Not to say that it’s all roses. While he’s still fit and active, he does have some health concerns that could get in the way if we let them. As Been There alluded to in #119 – we’d rather enjoy a few fantastic years together experiencing real love than never experience that connection at all.

I'm 37 and was with a man of 45 until end of last year. I ended it because the lack of sex and passion, I was tearing my hair out. A few times a month and very routine and only in the morning. He made me feel like his companion with a bit more. I kept on asking him if it was me and he wasn't attracted and wanted out and each time he said that he didn't know and was his age and was stressed and just didn't feel like it much anymore. But he loved my company.
He's now with a woman of 49 and they are both very happy. I don't know if they are having sex and the issue was that actually he didn't fancy me but maybe as she's older, it's more about the companionship when you head towards your 50s?
Gutted and miss him loads still and maybe I did put too much on sex?

I want to date an older man. Not marry but date. Not for money or status, but because I know to him I would be soooo desirable. A feather in his cap. I want to experience that level of being desired. I won’t actually do it, though, because I’d just be using him.

Your last paragragh where you list among your reasons for choosing older men were because men in their 30’s were:
A) Kissing up to their bosses.
B) Trying to make sure they looked presentable at work.
C) Trying to smile too hard so they can be liked (I’m paraphrasing here).

Helen, these so-called “older men’ you fancy had to-at some in their lives- do those things to get where they are no (if that be the case). And I can’t believe you would look down on ANYONE (not just a man) for trying to work their way up the adder at an honest job! He’s not out ‘stealing’ , he’s working! But honest hard work is not good enough for YOU, Miss Princess. What a STUPID, PATHETIC list of ‘reasons’ to put down men in their 30’s as a group and turn your nose up. To each his own but you sound INCREDIBLY shallow, materialistic, and LAZY as all get out (there, I said it). Sounds like you just want to ride the wave and leech off of men who have put sweat and hard work into the earnings, and sit back and live off of them. And if you want to have the finer things in life, get off your rusty-dusty and work for your own so YOU have something to bring to the table other than ‘little sister (what’s down there)’.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with being with someone who actively has goals and dreams and works hard, and then perhaps the material things can come later. But if your only motivation is MATERIAL then save yourself the divorce and don’t even bother getting married (because it won’t last).

From someone that was married to a man 12 years older. When your in your 20’s and 30’s and 30’s and 40’s there is not that much age gap. It is actually great because males mature slowly. As other woman have said earlier. But when you are 40 and 50 and he is 50 and 60. It is a big age gap. My husband died at 63. I think we need to classify any man that dates younger than 15 years as a pedophile type man. We need a term that would encompass what is going on here. I certainly understand why a man wants to date a younger woman. I myself see a younger man as more attractive than men my age. But I think people are better off dating there own generation. So I do seek out of my age difference. I think a 10 year age gap is reasonable. But anything over 15 years is sick. Someone is mentally immature. The girl just wants your money or what your money can do for her. So why would a man want that? Stupid if you ask me.

I had the happiest year of my life with a woman 10 years younger than me (45/55). The age-gap was no issue at all. We loved each other … or we did until she broke up with me unexpectedly. But the breakup was nothing to do with our age.

Let us talk less about what we SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do when there is an age difference, and look more at the individuals involved, whether it enriches ther lives, makes them happy, helps them fulfil their dreams …

I think age becomes less of an issue once you’re around 30. The poster right above me who commented that he dated someone a decade younger when he was 55 is not experiencing much of an age gap. I know plenty of people who’ve dated up or down 10 years once they’ve passed 30, and it was no big deal.

When I was in college, though, I often dated anywhere between 8 and 15 years older, and that’s a major age gap when you’re that young. The older people I was dating all had something in common: They were very immature for their age. They could not relate to their same-age peers. They consistently went for much younger partners because emotionally, they were on the same level.

The worst age gap I experienced was a man 15 years my senior when I was 23. He kept getting older and his girlfriends kept getting younger. He liked the power imbalance in the relationship – he liked being a daddy to these young women, and felt powerful because they were not as far into their careers as he was, he outearned them, etc. This made me very uncomfortable, especially when he started commenting on the shabby apartment I rented – what I could afford on my entry level income – and told me I should “ask my dad for money.” (What? Why? I was proud of earning my own way.) It ended, of course, and he pranked me over e-mail months after we broke up. Sure, age-wise, he was almost 40. But in many ways, he had the emotional maturity of a teenager.

I wouldn’t want to date a much older man these days, with one exception: Iggy Pop. And that’s because he’s Iggy Pop. Everyone I know, male and female, wouldn’t mind making it with Iggy Pop!

I think younger women are attracted to older men for the same reasons any women are attracted to any men: it fulfills some aspect of whatever dating script they’re operating on.

If you have low self-esteem, and you seek outside yourself for approval and admiration, and an older guy will supply it (in many but not all cases). If you’re saddled with huge student loans and you want a sugar daddy to help you out, then there’s certainly a financial incentive to date an older man, although it’s probably harder to find a financially stable older guy since the financial crisis. A lot of baby boomers are really struggling, with underwater mortgages, etc, so the financial incentive is more fantasy than reality these days.

I think optimally, if you and your man are basically at a similar level of maturity (some people mature faster than others, and there are plenty of 25 year old “old souls” as well as 40 year old “babies”), you’ll click because you have a similar view of the world, regardless of your age gap.

Also, your parents, and your birth order, have something to do with this. If there is a big age gap with your parents’ marriage, you might be attracted to that situation in your own life as well. If you are the youngest and you have much older brothers, you are probably well socialized into their cohort, and you might relate better to guys their age than to guys your own age.

I have a lot of female friends in their 40s and 50s. Those with younger brothers, especially firstborn girls with younger brothers, seem to be a lot more comfortable dating younger guys. The ones who have married younger guys seem to pick guys 2 to 4 years younger on average. I don’t see a lot of big 10 year age gaps in my own social circle. I still think the giant age gap relationships are sort of rare, at least in the South/Midwest, where I live.

I’m in love with a guy who is 16 years older. It just happened. Apart from him, I would not date a much older guy. If I were on a dating site I would automatically rule out all guys more than 5 years older than me. All my ex boyfriends were about the same age as me. This guy I love is not rich, just comfortably employed. I would love him even if he were broke; I would support him. He’s an amazing person to me, we have amazing chemistry and have known each other for a long time. I do worry what will happen further down the track, with the big age difference. But the heart wants what it wants, I can’t change it.

I can speak on my experiences honestly, I am seriously in love with a guy 13 years older than me,I am 23 and he is 36,although our relationship has not gotten really serious yet(we are still both youthful and not completely ready to settle down togehter yet, eventhough the feelings are still there,and we still have a special bond and a love for each other) to me the thirties are not that old. 40’s and up is considered old to me. I have messed with a few “old” dudes and I don’t normally go for older guys, but I realized that the few I did mess with had some kind of appeal to because they had their owns ways of being “youthful” whether it was how they looked, their sense of humor, if they liked to party and have fun etc. I’m a very intelligent girl, which is sometimes seen as “mature” since people tend to equate being young with being dumb, but I’m a very youthful chick, I still act and think like a young person does, and I love to have fun and joke around alot. I’m such a flirt and I have come in contact with alot of different guys, I have talked to old and young, there are some mature good young guys out there my age too. I do think there are some girls out there hwo have old souls, in my opinion they are a minority compared to the majority of young girls who think old men are creepy. Just the same as there are some men out there who like”morbidly obese fat women” but compared to the majority of guys that don’t; there are not that many, so I agree that it is more old men seeking younger women than it is younger women seeking older men. Fast forward to now I am currently talking to two “old” men one is a 53 year old firefighter with the perfect muscular body, he does not look a day over 35,no wrinkles or anything, he looks so damn handsome for his age that I must admit that I keep forgetting that he’s that old, he’s my exception eventhough I dont like guys in their 40’s.. and the other one is 47 but he looks 65 (talk about aging really badly), he’s my business partner, he’s teaching me what I need to know for the business that I’m just getting started in; which is one he knows the ins and outs to; which is great to me because I want to develop my career and make good money and I am quickly approaching the stage where my life is just starting; because basically I have not had a real life, not the life that I desire.. The issue with him is that he’s strongly attracted to me and I am not attracted to him at all, but he won’t stop being sexual with me because that’s how he feels around me, and I recently found out that he has played games with young girls my age to get them to have sex wit him, he did try to play a game on me, but I don’t fall for games because I talk to so many men; so I’m always 10 steps ahead of him, and that’s when I realized that this particular guy targets young women so he can play games and feel in control. So I cannot trust him at all. He seems to have a desperation, like he needs a strong connection with a woman, and since he’s divorced he seems to be looking for that in young girls (since he told me he thinks of me as a girlfriend, which doesn’t sound right since he acts really insecure around me, like he’s questioning me if I look at a guy and telling me that he can’t take me where a business meeting is because “there’s too many guys over there; that stuff pisses me off because in my mind in still single and I know in my heart that I don’t love him and that I cannot give him the love and committment that he wants,I’ve already told him that and he knew I was serious because he stopped answering my calls for awhile then he got upset when I stopped calling him) so I think he needs to be looking for the connection that he needs in an older woman; since there’s nothing youthful about him for him to be able to connect or relate to with a young chick like myself, and he’s aging super fast and the way he’s aging is making him look unattractive .(Like it or not looks are very important especially to young people).. So when it all boils down to it, the only reason I am still talking to him is because I still need his help, knowledge, and expertise in order to succeed and make good money in the business that I am just getting into, and I realize that I may have to have sex with him because he can’t seem to take no for an answer without forcing himself on me, the bottom line is Im just using him and it sounds harsh but it’s really not because he has lied to, played games with and hurt a lot of young girls my age just for his own sexual pleasure. But now he’s met his match, because he can’t play those same games on me that he does on them…

If any of you were to take the time to read some evolutionary biology, or study the behavior of other primates, none of this would be a mystery at all. Almost all males of other species are attracted to younger healthy females, almost all females of other species are attracted to powerful, generally older males. It’s just nature.

I get it. The truth is that if you want to have an intelligent conversation without the ego and jobtalk, you can usually find it with an older man.

The older man has usually learned a thing or two about acceptance and would like someone who makes him feel young but at the same time, someone with whom he can discuss things.

A younger woman (one who is NOT interested in money, career, power, etc) may crave an older man because the men her age are SO into appearance, social climbing, and greed that they don’t care to find someone who can talk–just someone who can show up, look good, produce beautiful children, pass the family sniff test, and shut up until called on. A younger man often finds his worth in the ability to have a “wife-in-waiting” with nothing to do but spend her time in the salon and in the gym with her $200 workout clothes.

An older man usually finds that crap ridiculous and if they are attracted to, intrigued by, humored and humbled by a woman (no matter the age), find that awesome.

Women would like fun, intimacy, to be taken seriously, to have their humor appreciated, to have someone attracted to them without their appearance being everything–a woman who doesn’t care about status or the opinions of family and friends and just spends time with people she enjoys–that is someone who could fall in love with a MUCH older man

I didn’t have the time to read thru all the posts here but I will throw my hat in the ring so to speak. I think Vino made some comment abt. prostitution..?
Ummm yeah!? Truth is ppl have forgotten how to be who “they are” and be comfortable within themselves without someone else telling them what to think. Whomever dates whomever older guy younger woman/older woman younger guy, If your looking at the money, and if that is on either end then you just answered allot of questions about yourself, and who you are as a person didn’t you?! That’s called introspection, and motivaters regarding inner personal relationships with eachother.
My dad met my mother in 1952 on a crap job both of them hated. They’re was no expection of anything “grand” just that they cared and loved eachother. Going out was a treat, they’d split a burger and fries and thought it was the most important time of they’re exsistance together because it “wasn”t about where”, but whom they were with.

Money or status should never be 1st with anyone dating ANYONE regardless of age. Psyco babble aside, Oh she wants a daddy, oh he wants a mommy etc. No one should ever go into a relationship looking at financials. (setting criminals aside here! Don’t Be STUPID for God sake!) If you can’t manage you’re own financial situation then you shouldn’t be looking at someone else to do that for you should you?!

I relize thats an older hard line position, but untill you have a goal for yourself, “without the imput of media” Telling you what that is or should be? then you’re allways going to be the one trying to keep up with the Jone’s! They have this so I need that one better! it’s retarted thinking and clearly shows a lack of thought, and ones own identity in the spectrum of life.

No one “owns” anyone! And NO ONE is Promised Tomorrow! if a person brings Joy, contentment, and fulfillment into your life embrace it for as long as you have it… (that’s on both ends of the spectrum) But NEVER build a wall around anyone. It was free and easy when you met, and the parting should be just the same. weather you ride it all out together, or weather you part as you grow in seperate ways… WHO’s the judge of any of it?

Everyone allways looking at the picture but never seeing the trees. From experiece? yeah I dated a girl much younger, in retrospect even I didn’t know what I wanted in a relationship, I thought I wanted marrage, and children, I was 31 she was 18… We were both just caught up! I learned allot about myself as did she. and we’re still friends, and still remember the wonderful times we had together.

We wrote a chapter in the scrapbook of our exsistance in this world together. Some wonderful, some bittersweet… But it was worth it all if only for the memory’s and the finding of ourselves without any drama or bitterness. It was just a chapter in this strange and wonderful sometimes painful thing called life. So I can’t make a judgement call on others, nor do I want too. I believe that every stage we all have to account for… For our OWN motives weather selfish, or noble.

Very small-minded article and (for the most part) posts on this. I am a divorced 43 year old man currently dating a 26 year old woman. It is the best relationship I have had in my entire life and she feels the same way.

I am a professional, but by no means rich. She is a professional too. She makes less money than me but not by a huge margin. Perhaps there are some exceptions to our relationship, in that I am very very youthful for my age physically. I am in perfect health and as virile as I ever was. I do not have children neither.

Having said all this, I will tell all of you naysayers why a relationship like this can and does work. A man of my age and wisdom simply knows how to appreciate a young lady. 25, 30, 35 year old men either do not, or often (usually) go the opposite direction and give a woman way too much control. I don’t care how much money or testosterone a 30 year old man has–he simply cannot compete with me. I understand woman 10 times better. I am older, wiser, more focused on my life and my woman. I also know how to be in control, without being controlling. At 43, I am all MAN and all the BOY is long gone.

The article makes conventient use of stereotyping. What about character? A young woman wants me, and so she has “Daddy issues”? What about the possibility that I am exceptional, and that time has made me wiser, gentler, and even more exceptional and even attractive?

Im old, almost 40, probably richer than most 40 somethings, certainly much wealthier than when I was 20 or 30, married almost 20 years, I think you get tired of dreading your spouse who constantly berates you, always having to initiate sex or intamacy, recivieing insults daily, So, when a 20 something, who is nice, and pretty and fit, comes along, wh is energetic and positive (about you) they are vry attractive. What do I have to offer, I am not sure, I am considered to be very handsome, but I am not 20 and am not fit, I have money, I travel, I can spend 200 on a meal and not think about it or expect anything in return, I would have no expectations from a 20 something year old just kindness. I don’t know about the stage in life thing it would bother me, I had allot of great expereinces with my wife in the 20s and most of the 30’s I would want a 20 year old women to be able to enjoy falling in love, and building something together, but sometimes the romantic notion of building something together is just that a struggle, some times its shit, sometimes the age appropriate spouse or older spouse is just an ass. So, maybe as an older + Younger women its just different expereinces, I don’t know. I don’t think its akin to prostitution, plenty of 20 year old women marry-date 20 year old men who they feel can take care of them, the only difference is the 20 year old with the 40 year old rich guy is a little more attune to financial reality. I am not really sure why I seem to be able to attract women 20-30 but I think being better looking, and richer certainly is relevant, in terms of sexual prowess, I think its silly to assume any 20 year old will be superior to a 40 year old, I was better at 20 than at 40, but the fact is not every 20 year old is physically endowed either in terms of stanima or orther wise. Also women hit thier mid thirties and think it makes them younger to lop off thier hair, short hair rarley looks good on any women, it might make you look younger just younger and ugly.

Maybe try to figure out why your wife is so pissed off. Not saying its all your fault, it is both for sure, but after 20 years of marriage and then you want to brag about how attractive you are to younger women. Perhaps with your free time you could work on your self and relationship instead of going through an obvious mid life crisis with predictable results. No self confident man or woman would let a spouse treat them the way you described.

I just turned 49 and I date young women because a couple of factors.
1. Most women in my age are married or they may be single or divorce and with kids and they are just not interested in starting a relationship. I also guess they are dealing with menopause so they withdraw from the dating scene. So that eliminates a good 90% of the women in my age range out of the dating pool. That leaves slim pickings for me.
2. The biggest available pool of single women that I can find is women in their 20s and early 30s. So just by sheer numbers the chances that I can find a match in this age range is much greater.
3. For some unexplainable reason to me it just happens that young women (in their 20s and 30s) are attracted to me. I don’t get it. I do look younger than my age but they want to continue dating even after I tell them my age.

Hey, I find it exciting and fun to date young girls but I also find it a bit embarrassing. This is especially so when I start to meet her friends and even worst when it comes time to meet her parents. My older married guys think it is great and they wish they were in my shoes but it is not that easy.

There have a few of girls that I’ve dated that I really fell in love with. Girls I actually thought that I could marry. But eventually I get in this relationship-destructive pattern of doing age number calculations combined with my desire for her to be happy for a long time. So I eventually end the relationship out my love for her with the hope that she meets someone her age that will make her really happy for a long time.

In the meantime I continue my search for someone close to my age that is available and fun. I suppose I could date Jennifer Anniston. She is available but unfortunately but she is also way out of my league.

I’m 18…and I find myself strangley attracted to guys in their 30’s…or late twenties…I just love their charm. they speak well, they move nicely… I like them!
People say that It’s because of “Daddy issues”. Well…My dad hadn’t really been around much… that might say a lot…

#71 & #72 — Many folks will likely understand and empathize with Kat’s own experience, but it seems quite a stretch to assumed that most couples with a similar age difference would experience the same problems. First of all, for a man to have debilitating health issues in his early 50s is surely not the norm. When I was in my early 50s, I ran 10k races and marathons and often finished in front of guys 10-20 years younger. I’m now 70 and I’m still very active in running and sports and am healthy as a horse. I think it has more to do with how one takes care of their health and their body. Also, a positive bright mental outlook goes a long way. Nowadays, a lot of folks in their 60s and 70s feel and act as if they were 20 years younger. Most of all, I think it is quite sad that (like Kat) a lot of Americans today seem to view older people as an embarrassment. In other societies the elderly are much more respected. My grandfather married my grandmother when she was 18 and he was 42. My grandfather had no sperm problems — they had 12 children who all turned out well. Nearly all of them attended university and had professional careers. Also, my father told me he never knew of his parents ever having harsh words with each other. The image portrayed by Kat seems to closely match the popular (but inaccurate) stereotype many American have about age difference in a relationship. Fortunately, it is far from reality based on all my experience and on that of many other folks I have known. Stereotyping doesn’t benefit anyone.

Blahblahblahblah…Who cares if you are 10, 20 or 30 years older or younger. Sugardaddy, armcandy prostitution, issues…whatever you call it, ENJOY IT!!! while it last if you have the means or the chance or fell in love.

I just recently became involved with a 74 year old man. I’m 57 and he has rocked my world sexually. This man cooked me dinner, cleaned the kitchen, enjoyed conversation and danced with me. Then he showed me how to “Make Love”. I can say this, you can have sex in the back seat of a car or in bed with any man. But it’s just sex. An older man will “Make Love” to you and rock your world.

74 and he is the Best!!! I never knew I was capable of having so many orgasms in one night. No pills, no drugs…. Just Making Love.

I now know what it feels like to be a Woman. Made love to and treated like a Lady at all times.

Female Gorillas join the harem of silverback males. Sexually mature male gorillas do not become silverbacks immediately. They spend mateless years apart from the occasionally stolen ONS (punishable by death if discovered so not common) until they build the physical and social strength to attract females. In wolves the young males stay in the pack but the cheating females get killed for ONS’s as only the top female gets to mate, usually with the top male. (hunting is dangerous, focus the resources on one set of cubs).

Human males start to develop grey hair (i.e. silverback) in their late 20’s. A Roman aristocratic male got his toga at 16 but he was not considered fully adult until 30. His 16 year old sister was a woman. Ages at marriage reflected this.

15 year age difference may have been the standard throughout most of human existence. Many Australian Aborigines still practice this. The young girls are assigned to old men. (Assigned to prevent inbreeding in small groups – most of our history). The young men are assigned to older widows to keep them out of the way. More experienced male = more food = more babies. More experienced male = more status = more priviledges (sic) and respect for the female. Story telling counts as well as hunting.

A study I read long ago that sought to explain the economic rise of 14th Century medieval England found that following the Black Death, in the East of England, marriage patterns changed from young women marrying at 16 or 17 to 21 or 22 year old men to young women of 20-25 marrying men from 28 to 35. Spinsters are over 21 year olds still spinning wool. Husbandmen have their own land as owners or sharecroppers they are not 21 year olds entering adulthood. Before the Black Death there was overpopulation and little variation in male success so choice of man didn’t matter much. After the Black Death there was room for the men to prove themselves economically and socially. Aristocrats sometimes married at 12 and 14. The age of their spouse was not a consideration. In towns, the 21 year old journeyman who has just qualified might get to marry the master’s 14 year old daughter but usually he has to become a master himself and marry her when she finishes her indentures as a servant at 18 to 20. (Everybody had servants. In Medieval times they dealt with stroppy teenagers by exchanging them as servants with someone else). Observe, that in Medieval times a degree of chastity was expected of both sexes. Post Black Death morals were said to decline. When men are equal a woman might as well be monogamous. When they are unequal women will trade up (status not money – that wandering minstrel sings so well) when they can.
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This one is on the internet somewhere. In the 17th Century, the Sami (Lapps) of Northern Finland were still hunter gatherers but christians. So their family lives were recorded in Parish registers. The men were generally at least 10 years older than the women. The most successful marriages (largest number of children surviving to adulthood) had a 15 year age difference.

Jane Austen readers will recall that Mr Darcy was already a man and held Jane in his arms when she was a baby.

So why do Anglo Europeans now have 2 year age differences as standard? This happened before contraception kicked in. I suggest (and now it is my opinion not research) the following.

Amongst the skilled working classes, sometime in the 19th Century, young men could afford marriage. (This may be breaking down). At the same time,

Since the 1880’s there has been universal compulsory education. This has confined young people’s social horizons to their immediate peer groups more strongly than in the past. I remember when I finally started work, how strange I found all these old people that I had to mix with. Somebody from the 18th Century would have found an age segregated group strange. You lived in your village or urban parish with everyone.

Ideas of romantic love were spread to all the vicarages of England by dangerous social agitators like Jane Austen. Thus “Chemistry” became seen as rational. If you are confined to an age group your first chemical experience may well be with a peer.

The First World War killed off the men. Rather than marry a settled, moderately older man, young women started to marry younger men while they were still available.

So, I suggest that a man 15 years older has been the appropriate difference for marriage over at least 30,000 years (since we developed imaginations). Oh, and many women like to see grey hair. Cougarism is not out of the question – Aborigines, Merry Widows of medieval times who had inherited their husband’s property or trade. Few remarried but pregnancies were not unknown. “Widdowson” and so forth.

So for a young woman looking for marriage to raise children, a man 15 years older is only a problem because of cultural stereotypes. Of course, thanks to condoms, the contraceptive pill and abortion young women no longer seek marriage to raise children. The disciplines of chastity are no longer acceptable. One Night Stand thinking takes over and divorce must be invented.

It is often quoted on the internet that the formula, 7 years plus oldest partner’s age divided by 2 gives the lowest workable age for the youngest partner. So a 15 year old girl and a 16 year old boy are at extremes. A 18 year old girl shouldn’t look at a man older than 22. A 21 year old woman, the traditional age of adulthood should consider a man up to 28. About what happened in Medieval England. As in so many things, medieval people had their social relations about right. We are paying a big price for The Enlightenment. I believe that the formula was first proposed by a German psychologist but I have never traced it exactly.

@Henry 73. I’m 60. No pump or viagra needed but I find natural testosterone from working out definitely helps. There are men who start collapsing at 45 from drink, alcohol, stress, illness, diabetes, cigarettes, obesity. A lot of women drop off the radar at the same time too. I don’t think that we are discussing either group here.

@ Kat. Men’s output and quality of sperm declines at about 2% a year as they age from 20. Women, for all essential purposes do not age from 18 to 35 ish. Their fertility and quality of eggs then deteriorate at about 1% a MONTH. Cross over is about 42. Until then woman are reproductively more valuable than men of the same age. After that men are reproductively more valuable than women. In Western Europe the mid 40’s is also the point at which the population of women exceeds that of men (men die faster). In the US the crossover is about 35 as there are more homicides, accidents and drug deaths in the US underclass.

@ Michael 95. Outside Islam, most divorces are filed by women (60-80% depending on country). A man with an unsatisfactory woman looks for an additional woman to fill the gaps. A woman with an unsatisfactory man seeks to replace him. Hence many misunderstandings.

The ratio of gonad weight to body weight in male humans suggests that men have evolved to have harems of 1.6 females.

Genetic analysis suggests that 80% of all women who have ever lived have reproduced. Only 40% of men have reproduced.

As we know, low status men are invisible to women.

I suggest that it has been normal since the times of Homo Erectus to the Paleolithic revolution (30 000 years ago) that the better quality men had two women. An older one acquired early on while the man was of relatively low status and another younger more fertile one acquired when he had the status (there was no money in the paleolithic – status was a skill, including art/music, toolmaking, hunting, leadership, physical strenght) to attract one. So, at the biological level, a previous marriage and previous success rearing children should be incentives for younger women to desire an older man not a turn off. This is definitely my real world experience both as a young man and as an old man of 60. I did not separate from my wife until my children were fully grown.

Peter, you are right. I can see a marriage between an older man and younger woman actually working out better. An established older man and younger woman is ideal, even 15 years age difference. The rule of seven is good. I just had a bad experience which has clouded my judgement . I don’t see anything inherently wrong with older man, younger woman. I do see a problem with older women, younger men though lol😃

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