Compare china and india ,more child will make the country poor,in my opinion ,
good live condition is a basc human right .

Wrong are gov use violence hurt the mothers ,like tiananmen square to the students .

But all of all , one child policy make most people live in good live condition ,compare human right with low income democracy country ,the women in india more equal than women live in China ?Come on ,is a joke .in my opion ,if a
country want be a high income nation ,only way is state capitalism,low human right then many years later high human right ,just like Singapore ,South Korea ,Taiwan ,China.
Do not trust the democracy if the country with a low income naion ,even human right.China will be better human right in next decades if the econmic increasing.

due to peacefull after the korea war ,The US help the country much funds,and USKF ，Vietnam War ,made the South Korea became Anti-communist bastion ,did some african countries got so much help from the US ?

And ,many african countries no civilized history ,did these country respect education ? Have single ethnic ?And i think some one are from
primitive society direct became capitalism demorcracy nations after the colonists left ,they need make the ethnic assimilation first ,then can unite to develop the country , i think till now ,the assimilation is not finish,south korea no this question .

Of course ,i am not a history scholar ，you can search google or compare other people's opinions.

If you say abortion is murder, then all the doctors aroud the world doing abortion are murderers, and to be executed.
Whether the abortion is against the mothers' will or not, it is certainly against the fetus' will.

The murder has nothing to do with the mother's will.
It is the fetus or the pre-baby that was killed or so called murdered. It is not the mother's will.
Let's say A is dead. Whether it is a murder or not, it has nothing to do with B's will.
Let's say, if the mother is doing a freewill abortion, is it a murder? Some states in US say it is, some say it is not.
Yes, I say it is 100% against the mother's will.
But whether it is against the mother's will or not, it has nothing to convict a murder.

If you can’t even pay the government fine, how are you even going to raise the kid and educate the kid to be a socially useful resource? At least a dead fetus will not waste anyone’s resources any further, apart from the cremation fee.

It's costly to bring up a child in China,you have to buy milk powder from USA since the birth,and also have to set a fund for future education,it is going to cost lots of your money.
But I strongly believe ONE child police is not fair,out of date ,and one child in one family is definitely not enough as well as for the nation

Far too many people seem to be under the impression that more people means more mouths to feed, less jobs, etc, when the reality is that a growing population (with good demographics) is the single best way of growing an economy. Killing of x% off a population is a horrible, counterproductive thing to even contemplate, but this is the logical conclusion of the argument which sees population growth as a bad thing. Overpopulation is, basically, a myth. Unfortunately it plays well to the hands of reactionaries and xenophobes; as well as appealing to some liberal-lefty types who think that poor people are too stupid and need to have choices made for them.
Free Enterprise = free movement of goods, services and people. Want prosperity? That's your recipe.

You are simply wrong. Overpopulation is real. A growing population is going to grow an economy, sure, but why does the economy need to grow? To satisfy the needs of the growing population. There is no reason to assume that GDP growth is inherently the "best" thing for anyone. So if you think it is right to promote population growth to increase GDP, then you are a deeply cynical person.

The one child policy does not kill any percent of the population - it limits births -- that is not the same thing as increasing deaths. Extremely different.

What you conveniently ignore is the fact that all resources ultimately come from the ENVIRONMENT, which can only supply a finite amount of goods and services for us. Look up the term carrying capacity on Wikipedia, please.

IMP, this article is full of self opinions.It blames One Child Policy just because abortion and unreasonable punishment. How did it comes, you should all know its history. As a Chinese, I should regard why China does not accept One Child Policy in 1960s(Even that was in C.R.).

Bismarck888 is right! If China is too crowded some Chinese should emigrate to Africa, Russia, Australia, Europe... Or come to America, for real!

Free movement of people is an idea we should all aspire to. Rich countries benefit from cheap labor and the so called "brain drain"- which is actually more of a myth, as when people can aspire to emigrate to a rich country, they are more likely to pursue expensive education, with many positive externalities. Also, remittances from migrants are a hugely important means of re-distributing wealth from rich to poor countries, much more effective, and cheaper (for taxpayers) than so called foreign "aid" which benefits ruling elites more than anyone.

The best part is, everyone pursues their own interest without government coercion! Win-Win-Win.

You are insane.
What we need is sustainalbe development, even if that costs much than we gain.
Cheap labor and brain drain are not myth. They are essential of economics. And, in deed and in fact, poor countries befefit much more from cheap labor and brain drain than rich countries, based on national and international statistics.

Peasant farmers are not unskilled. I rather have take in a wheat farmer from Northern China,than a drug dealer like you. Farming is important, and not many people in developed and countries like Thailand / China want to do it anymore. That is why I think its important to send Chinese farmers to Africa to develop agriculture in those countries.

that globalization for all human beings is exactly we both called insane. Because it's not gonna happen in a future we can forecast. We could not even imagine a global peace without wars.
Sinking in and advocating a dream of a heaven-like future is a typical syndrome of insane people.

the retirement assistance for the one child parents is 60 Yuan per month after 60, around 100 dollars per year, while a unskilled worker can earn about 1000 dollars per month in coastal provinces, like shanghai, zhejiang. What's the trade off here. The brutal measures are the supplements for the low monetary compensation planes.

I find this article severely imbalanced. China is trying to develop and improve the lives of Chinese people through improving education, healthcare, and opportunity which is made exponentially difficult with an increasing population. The government provides contraception, but fines people who have more than one child to serve as a deterrent to others. As an American living in China, I have found that many Chinese people support the one-child policy because they understand it is the best for the greater good and everyone in the long-term.

Possibly, but I'm not sure. The woman mentioned in the article who was forced to abort her fetus at 7 months was treated roughly. I dont condone violence. It would have been better if she had been using birth control and/or aborted the pregnancy much earlier. What options does the government have? If they allow women to have their babies many many more will be less careful. Otherwise, should the children be put up for adoption? I dont have an answer. Do you?

This article is basically stating some facts that took place in China. There is no denial that a large number of people that could have come to this world are prevented, lessening the pressure on the resourses.But right now, the focus of attention is not siding with pros or cons of family planning, but how the officials have corrupted this policy for personnal gains, showing indiscrimite disregard for others including the unborn. The anger is directed at the fatuous, incompetent, corrupt Chinese officials and the unfairness in the sense of impunity for haves and inhumane brutality for the have-nots. crminimals working previvous as Public servent in China are not dealt with in the stirct sense of law but absurdly linient. The officials in the Shann'xi case who forcedly abort the fetus are only suspended from their post in the wake of raging anger in the whole of China.

For the new generation, there is no such control for the second. For the old generation, you could have it 5 years after the birth of the firt child. The question is, should she proceed to have the extra child, even if there is no such fine?

This article is basically stating some facts that took place in China. There is no denial that a large number of people that could have come to this world are prevented, lessening the pressure on the resourses.But right now, the focus of attention is not siding with pros or cons of family planning, but how the officials have corrupted this policy for personnal gains, showing indiscrimite disregard for others including the unborn. The anger is directed at the fatuous, incompetent, corrupt Chinese officials and the unfairness in the sense of impunity for haves and inhumane brutality for the have-nots. crminimals working previvous as Public servent in China are not dealt with in the stirct sense of law but absurdly linient. The officials in the Shann'xi case who forcedly abort the fetus are only suspended from their post in the wake of raging anger in the whole of China.]

I do not oppose to family planning if it is done through non-abortive means. I believe abortion is justifiable only if it is done for medical reasons.

China's one child per couple policy was --and remains-- absolutely essential if China is to move forward into a 1st world nation and continue to progress economically and socially. Several decades ago, one of every four humans alive on this earth was a Chinese living in China; that figure has now dropped, rather than increasing geometrically as would surely have been the case had China not tackled the difficult issue of limiting births and stuck to its guns on this matter. It was crucial and highly beneficially to the Chinese people and their advancement into becoming a major economic power. The rest of the world needs to follow China's lead, because otherwise, if human intelligence and reason on human over population doesn't prevail, then the much harsher remedies of nature will --and they will take the form of famines and pandemics. The entire question of global pollution, destruction of the rain forests and so forth is the result of too many humans on this planet, all struggling to survive and advance their circumstances. The number of births simply has to be controlled and restricted or we shall all face the cataclysmic consequences of our own irresponsibility in the not too distant future.

the focus of attention is not siding with pros or cons of family planning, but how the officials have corrupted this policy for personnal gains, showing indiscrimite disregard for others including the unborn. The anger is directed at the fatuous, incompetent, corrupt Chinese officials and the unfairness in the sense of impunity for haves and inhumane brutality for the have-nots. crminimals working previvous as Public servent in China are not dealt with in the stirct sense of law but absurdly linient. The officials in the Shann'xi case who forcedly abort the fetus are only suspended from their post in the wake of raging anger in the whole of China.

My remarks were intended to address the subject of population control rather than the injustices, instances of unfairness and of corruption in China's system of enforcement. Unfortunately, these problems are inherent to some extent in every society in the enforcement of its laws, since perfect justice is unattainable, as is ending favoritism on the part of the those in positions of authority. I fully agree that the goal of reducing such conduct and, whenever possible, punishing those responsible should always be pursued.

The one child policy was a response to craziness of the Mao era when people were encouraged to have more children. Commies always think of hare brained schemes only to go the opposite direction a decade later. Had the CPC started regulating fertility rates like the North Koreans in the early 1960s, there would be no need for such drastic measures.

There had been pilot projects in China done at the time of one child policy, allowing certain towns to have two children, the end result was the same, but the sex imbalance was not there.

People who criticize the west for complaining about human rights when talking about the one child policy, don't realize the one child policy undermines the foundation of Chines culture, the extended family. Large extended families are a part of traditional Chinese culture, that date back thousands of year. How the Chinese name their children is a product of having large families. Children often refer to brothers and sisters by family order (7th brother, 2nd Sister etc). Then there is the extended family, with a very complex system of naming, social hierarchy, ranking.

You go to Chinese communities in Malaysia, where Chinese people in their twenties still have 2-5 siblings, you will understand how important it is.

Its time to abandon the whole thing, and instead make people produce more babies. Why? Its the Commie way. So instead of fining people for having too many babies, they should fine them for having too few children !!! If you just allow people to produce as many children as they want, then what is the point of having a family planning bureau. The bureaucrats never just don't do nothing, they will make a policy / decree to do nothing if they had to. The Chinese are masters of such bureaucratic nonsense. In ten years time, this is what is going to happen.

BTW, Culture changes as it develops. You go to HongKong and Taiwan, families tend to have only one child.
It was deep Chinese culture to bow to each other couple hundred years before, but they don't do that anymore.

People just had them, but Mao did encourage people to have a lot of children. Chinese birthrates were very high, much higher than in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan.

Indians and Latin Americans, despite what you think don't have alot of children. Indian fertility rates are about 2.4, much of Latin American is about 2 now, even Mexico. You need to get out more. if you like being Communist, why don't you join the CPC.

The thing is how do you know? The Japanese fertility rate is low, but the average family size is two children. Its just that people aren't marrying that is all. Fertility rate is the average number of children born to a woman over a life time. it does not represent family size. The average number of children a Japanese woman WHO gets married is two children. Its just that not many women are marrying and having children. If 30% of women don't get married they are counted in the fertility rate.

Chinese birth rates were high even before 1950, its just that not many children survived. After 1950, with better health care a lot more children not just in China, but in many developing countries. You can increase life expectancy and population growth by improving infant mortality.

If you believe that having one child is the way to go, be my guest. Who is going to look after China's old people? Who are you going to hire to take care of them? Africans? They are the only place on earth now with high birth rate and a big enough population. The Indians are gotten old fast too, in Southern India, they are dependent on workers from the North to tend their fields. Why? Low birth rates. Birth rates in some parts of Southern India are not much different than China's.

You as a dead German virtual life should know Germany has the biggest bureaucratic nonsense cause they are debating day and night about "Kitaplatz" and "Elternsgeld". To increase or decrease one or two Euro dollars and debating for years. Amen !!

"How do I know?" Let me try this again. I know because I am from HongKong. I mentioned HongKong and Taiwan, not Japan. Most of the relatives and people I know have only one child, boy or girl. Few have two but no more. Few don't want any at all, but a cat or a dog. Their mentality is that rasing a child will cost them $4,000,000. Yes, that's the figure they claim to cost. Beats me how they arrive this number. And this trend is the same in Macau and Taiwan.

As I said, you need to improve your reading skills a bit. I have never said having one child is the way to go. I believe as population age and growth rate slows down, the policy should be adjusted accordingly.

China is not having any less children than the West. Who is going to look after the old in the West?
As the country gets richer, the old will accumulate enough wealth to look after themselves. In fact, many 'olds' are helping out the young instead such as housing.

BTW, from your earlier post, Mexico is NOT a 'South' American country and India is still having more children than the world average.

Don't listen to Lee Lai Shan and Heng Seng Bank's BS. It is an Advertisement only.
Your parents had experienced the baby boomer, Many family had 6 to 8 children, they jammed in one small apartment, public toilet and cook outside the apartment, not every one can have a chance to have proper education. The priority is to feed them, no more. How can you encourage people to have more children. China has a similiar problem as HK. Apartment is un-affordable although so many empty flats.
Remember HK family campaign "2 is enough", it was very successful to convince people have less children and concentrate on one, two or None children.
Only Bismarck have this nostalgic idea to have traditional chinese big family as before. A lot of foreigner is still thinking Chinese have pony tail at their back. Bismarck is one of them!! I can imagine Bismarck has some funny hair as showed in google.https://www.google.de/search?q=ultra+orthodox&hl=de&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&...
The trend is 1 child to childless, to return is not easy. To raise children is a big effort, see tiger mother or dragon father!! Not a easy job.
BTW Bismarck don't have to worry about raising children because his Jewish government will pay everything for them as long as they busy learning bible

Are they popping out babies left and right. Some of their fertility rates are lower than Vietnam's or Malaysia.

The difference is the West is the only handful of Western populations have low sub-replacement fertility rates. Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal, Canada. The rest are close to replacement or above replacement USA, UK, Australia, Nordic Countries, France, Netherlands, Belgium. The countries with low replacement fertility don't add up to 1.3 Billion.

Population growth and age is not something you can turn off, it takes at least a generation. If China does not do something now, it could end up like Japan. Countries like Netherlands had fertility below 1.5 twenty years ago, it took them 20 years time bring it up to 1.8 (much of that due to birth from immigrants). Once it drops below a certain level its very difficult to bring back up again.

Its already happening, whether you like it or not. I am pretty sure right now there are 2+ Million Chinese in Africa (the estimates of 1 million are out of date). Chinese people have to seek "living space".

I don't accept Bismarck is a Singaporean, but only an Indian!!! A cheap talk Indian....

Donald Tsang is unrealistic, there is NO government policy to help family!! Apartment is so difficult in HK, public house entrance fee is so high (conditions), University is so difficult to join (they accept foreign student, Chinese and foreign than local. A fan of mine just sent daughter to Australia because no vacancy in HK for her although she had good result), Education system is Chaos 孙公微调, student and teachers all complaining. (IMO teachers need to be re-educated cause their standard are quite low. :D )

Those good big family is gone, will not come back, when it will then just 2 children, no more. I always encourage fan to have 2 instead of one. But most of them have only one. And lot of them None. Lot of Chinese people (single child) living in foreign country I met would NOT like to have more than one.

Donald Tsang called in to RTHK to tell his scandal of yacht overnighting and Congee breakfast. How can someone be so un-sensitive about what he is doing and whom he is meeting. He is a second version of our former president Christian Wulff ! Those people are in high position for too long and lost their instinct!

Your South American countries "selected" are still producing more than China. And I said "encouraged", back in the 50s and 60s as China. I guess I should be more in details when I mentioned "still" which is Africa, India and 'Some' South American countries such as Guatemala, Bolivia, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua etc.

You have this assumption that China must maintain the 1.3 billion people. What is wrong with a few less? And what was so bad that happened to Netherlands with fewer people? or ending up like Japan?

So you still believe Chinese having a lot of children is a culture that can't change?

So you still believe Chinese having a lot of children is a culture that can't change?
--------------

This is exactly what he meant. Many absurb people are like Bismarck because he met lot of Malaysian Indonesian Chinese are big family. So he think China MUST stay that way. In fact the world change but Bismarck not.

I am going to play your game, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua are in Central America. Haiti is the Caribbean. Only Bolivia is in South America. To be frank, Bolivia population is 10 Million, its not a big county like Brazil or Argentina so it does not matter.

Did I say that having a lot of children is a culture that can't change? I say there are negative consequences.

From your earlier post: "Chinese culture is very much based on large families. So the whole one child policy goes against this aspect of Chinese culture. Here is an interesting article of three generations of a Chinese American family living in one building in NYC."
This to me is saying Chinese culture long for lots of children, therefore it should remain the same and the one child policy is against Chinese culture and should be eliminated.
Considering your previous reading skills, how do you interpret this?

And it is not my game. I didn't decide that there is North America and South America as continents. Is there a continent called Central America? How about continents called East Caribbean and West Caribbean?

"Ahh.. world won't be better off with 500m more chinese!"
-
World would be better with 1billion less chineses. Why doesn't the dictatorship kill them so?!! Who might decide how many 'live chinese' world needs?! Mao? Xilai? Jiabao? CCP?! TO THE HEEL ALL OF THEM!

'China is the hell. The dictator use the people like horses!'
/
/
too bad that's not what most american CEOs say. according to FT a couple of days ago, a survey of CEOs by the us conference board, 90% of them rated chinese communist government better than that of the us, or their president.

I guess it's better for China ( and the world) to have an extra half billion mouths to feed? China does alot of things wrong, but the overall effect of the one-child policy has been positive for the planet....

If people can obey the one-child policy(just enjoy sex and use condom), then the murder thing should not happen because there is no 'second child'.
some media linking these two things together are trying to bring shame on China in this respect. and seems successful.
for people criticising this policy and appealing for 'Human Rights', i bet you will hate it more when you see heaps of chinese people showing up in your country, talking loudly in public, buying your houses and even rip you off job. but at the same time you are using stuff that are made in china, and did you show any respect to them?
In my opinion, one-child policy is actually aimed at promoting human rights. the population in China is just too large that everyone need to do whatever they can for something better, that's the feeling you may not understand if you were born in a developed country and you take everything you have for granted.
People read the newspaper to know about China---but media may express the truth in another way that makes you think differently.
People judge chinese by observing those in their country---while some very rich people are not well educated and does not behave politely.

though Monstermok's argument had loopholes and I think the one-child policy was carried out based on China's national condition and the aim was to control the population growth. The murder was not due to the policy but the officials.

your words are a bit offensive. please be awared that there should be premises in your argument(which I did not see any relationships with the case):
P1.Japan invaded China
P2.China resisted
P3.Japan captured Nanking and had the Nanking Massacre
C. China should have 'invited' Japan to rule them (WTF?!)

P1.State invades women's bodies.
P2.A woman resists.
P3.State perpetrates medical rape of this woman and kills her unborn child.
(MonsterMok's) C.This woman should have invited state to control her body and its internal functionings. (WTF?!)

A modern young Chinese woman once explained to me the degradation she had experienced during her childhood as a result of the population boom of the Mao years. In her opinion, the one-child policy was by far the lesser of evils. I had nothing to say to contradict her.

If we're going to have a sensible debate on China's (or anybody's) one-child policy, let's at least have an informed Economist article on the background of the issue. It's too easy for Westerners to look around at their (still) relatively comfortable circumstances and make pompous speeches about the "rights of the unborn".

Maybe the Greeks who gave up their children to ensure they were properly fed could provide some insight. They might also have an opinion on what happens when you end up giving too much power to petty local officials.

That is easier said than done. How exactly can a poor developing country with more than a billion souls develop if the population keeps on going up fast?
There is a good example on the other side of the Southern Chinese border.

The problem with India is food distribution, not with actually producing food. India is a food exporter, don't believe me check. The problem in India is the developed parts of the countries have low birth rates, while the undeveloped have birth rates like Africa. Overall the birth rate is about 2.4, like China was in the 1980s.

The forced abortion was a sad affair but sadly, a country that already has 1.3 billion people cannot expect to have the same level of human rights as a country of 10m. The one-child policy is a necessary evil and takes an enormous amount of conviction and self-sacrifice on the part of the Chinese people to make it work. The self-righteous hypocritical media of the developed world needs to stop making them feel bad about this selfless act. The world will not be better off with 500m more Chinese. We're already running out of resources.

A country that already has 1.3 billion people cannot expect to have the same level of human rights as a country of 10m? Could I suppose that you will support the secession of China. If China becomes 100 countries, the problem will solved in your logic?

I agree entirely with OnePersonThinkTank. The human population on this planet has to brought under control and stabilized or we all face the catastrophic consequences of our failure to act. Selah makes light of the problem, but a serious look at the matter should cause anyone to take heed --population growth worldwide has to be restricted. I laud China for its determined approach. There can be no human rights if people haven't enough land to live on due to irresponsible reproduction.

Yes 1.3 billion should expect the same level of humna rights as 10m. Population needs to be curbed however not at the cost of violating somebody's basic rights. The one child policy is good if it works with incentives and fines, without leading to violence. Its the right policy, wrongly implemented. Otherwise why not just create more gas chambers and solve the population problem?