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Trading picks this year for picks next year

I've been hoping they did this for years now...I'd be absolutely thrilled to trade a 4 for a 3 next year or a 5 for a 4 next year. I've always been a little jealous of teams that were able to do that on a somewhat regular basis. I consider it just basically taking advantage of other teams stupidity/desperation. I remember I read somewhere that the Patriots were able to take a 6th round pick and in 2 or 3 years turned it into a 3rd.

This year I think it would be a little harder though considering they think this years draft crop is deep enough to get good players in those middle rounds. It's easy to say you'll trade out...until that player you think can contribute now is staring you in your face lol.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I've been hoping they did this for years now...I'd be absolutely thrilled to trade a 4 for a 3 next year or a 5 for a 4 next year...

I'd be happy too, but it is difficult when you have the last pick in every round. It's almost like our 3rd round pick is really at the top of the 4th round. Of course if some team is desperate for a specific player then maybe a deal could be made, but I wouldn't pin my hopes on it... Bc

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

I'd be all for it and it could start a domino effect when you factor in the likely compensatory picks we will receive next season. We could set ourselves up for the future in more ways then one in this draft. I wouldnt start with these scenarios until the 4th round imo, i think we still have some things to take care of and we can get a nice haul moving up and down the board in that 2 to 4 range. But if they get to that late 4th and see guys they like that they know they can get in the 5th, why not flip it for a 3rd next year?

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

No body does this better than the Patriots. I heard they have a list of future picks and they work out there picks and future picks 5 years in advance. Pretty sweet and it works for them

Yup.

Part of why I like that idea is that most of the teams that do those trades (the team giving away the future pick) is often the dumb team and will wind up giving you a very good pick. How often do those teams that trade away future picks wind up disappointing and giving up a higher draft pick than they anticipated?

I read a Bill Barnwell article where he basically laid out that the Broncos traded away the pick that wound up being Earl Thomas for Alphonso Smith...the Colts traded away the picks that became Dashawn Goldson and Kentwan Balmer (bust) for Tony Ugoh...the Saints traded the picks that wound up being Chandler Jones and Shane Vereen for Mark Ingram...and the Panthers traded the pick that wound up being Mike Iupati for Everette Brown.

That future pick...first rounders in particular almost always are a win for the team trading out.

I remember when we traded back with Jax in the year we got Flacco and I admit that I was really excited at first as I thought there was no way we traded that far back without getting a future #1...and I was immediately disappointed that we didn't get that in the trade (although it was a lot of mid round picks). Looking back, If Jax had indeed traded us that #1, that pick wound up being Eugene Monroe...it was a top 10 pick and considering we took Oher with our own first, Monroe almost definately would have been a Raven and we still would have had another first.

I just really like that and hope it works out for us that we can get some relatively valuable future picks next year.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

Originally Posted by BcRaven

I'd be happy too, but it is difficult when you have the last pick in every round. It's almost like our 3rd round pick is really at the top of the 4th round. Of course if some team is desperate for a specific player then maybe a deal could be made, but I wouldn't pin my hopes on it... Bc

I'm not pinning my hopes on anything in regards to the draft lol. It's a mess of uncertainty.

But it could be done...say we trade back a couple times. We aren't locked into only having our original picks.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

I'd happily try and trade our two sixths for a fourth next year. The next year trade the fourth and maybe a sixth since we will get a sixth comp for a third the following year, then a third and fifth/4th for a second. Then that second and fourth and sixth for a future first.

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

One thing to remember about BB's strategy was that he used to say that early to mid 2nd round picks were the sweet spot in the draft, and used to covet those picks. Mainly due to the fact that early pick's compensation was getting out of control, and the picks in that range were not getting paid much more than later round picks. He would often come away with as many as 3 picks in this range from his wheeling and dealing. Remember, he would rarely ever keep both of his first round picks.

Now, with the rookie wage scale, salaries all across the board are lower, but even early 1st round picks are bargains. I've noticed that ever since the rookie wage scale has been instituted, BB has been trading up pretty heavily. Presumably because he sees the value of great talent as virtual identical prices. Also, maybe because he sees his window closing with Brady getting older and wants to squeeze out another championship.

Another thing to point out, usually when teams make out like bandits with first round trades, it's for a QB. There are a few exceptions, but they're still usually coveted players. The Patriots have had lackluster 1st round picks when they were in their trading back years, because they selected lackluster players that nobody would trade for, and traded away the picks where Pro Bowlers were being selected. Of course, they were the beneficiary of QB pick trades.

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

Originally Posted by Coastergenius

One thing to remember about BB's strategy was that he used to say that early to mid 2nd round picks were the sweet spot in the draft, and used to covet those picks. Mainly due to the fact that early pick's compensation was getting out of control, and the picks in that range were not getting paid much more than later round picks. He would often come away with as many as 3 picks in this range from his wheeling and dealing. Remember, he would rarely ever keep both of his first round picks.

Now, with the rookie wage scale, salaries all across the board are lower, but even early 1st round picks are bargains. I've noticed that ever since the rookie wage scale has been instituted, BB has been trading up pretty heavily. Presumably because he sees the value of great talent as virtual identical prices. Also, maybe because he sees his window closing with Brady getting older and wants to squeeze out another championship.

Another thing to point out, usually when teams make out like bandits with first round trades, it's for a QB. There are a few exceptions, but they're still usually coveted players. The Patriots have had lackluster 1st round picks when they were in their trading back years, because they selected lackluster players that nobody would trade for, and traded away the picks where Pro Bowlers were being selected. Of course, they were the beneficiary of QB pick trades.

I don't know that I totally agree with that.

I don't think the salaries were a big issue because once you got outside of the top 10 or so picks, the contracts for first rounders were ok. And other than when the Patriots took a player in Jerrod Mayo, they never had other top 10 picks. And BB hasn't been trading up heavily...last year was the first time he traded up with his first round pick(s)...in fact, the prior year he traded out yet again. I think it's too soon to label him as a guy who is trading up...one year doesn't make a trend. I think as you said, he finally decided to use those high picks because he realizes Brady's run...and his as I'm sure he will be retiring as soon as Brady hangs it up...is running shorter. They also have only made one trade for a team desperate for a QB...with us for the right to pick Kyle Boller. And the only player selected in their original slot that they traded out of to become a pro bowl player is Joe Staley in the 49er trade.

And yes sometimes those trades are for QB's...but it's not as often as you think. A future first has been traded for the rights to take a QB on draft day 4 times since 2003...but it's happened almost every year since then, sometimes 2 times in a single draft involving OT's, DE's, CB's, and RB's. If a team really covets a player no matter of position, they seem to go ahead and do the trades.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

No body does this better than the Patriots. I heard they have a list of future picks and they work out there picks and future picks 5 years in advance. Pretty sweet and it works for them

The only problem is that they have been making generally terrible picks for the past 5 years so their people that have been evaluating players have not been doing a very good job! If you think I am wrong, check the number of picks they cut or players that have under performed during this period. The results are not pretty!

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

Originally Posted by PalladinInNC

The only problem is that they have been making generally terrible picks for the past 5 years so their people that have been evaluating players have not been doing a very good job! If you think I am wrong, check the number of picks they cut or players that have under performed during this period. The results are not pretty!

Their problem is that they habitually traded out of the first round for years instead of using those picks. They typically would only use the first 1st rounder, and then instead of using the second 1st, they'd trade out and you just can't do that every year. You have to use the picks.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Their problem is that they habitually traded out of the first round for years instead of using those picks. They typically would only use the first 1st rounder, and then instead of using the second 1st, they'd trade out and you just can't do that every year. You have to use the picks.

Doesn't matter! Their picks after the 1st round have been generally bad and that is where you can tell whether their way of evaluating players is successful or not! If you can't hit on lower round players, you are in big trouble which is why Ozzie is one of the best there is!

Re: Trading picks this year for picks next year

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Their problem is that they habitually traded out of the first round for years instead of using those picks. They typically would only use the first 1st rounder, and then instead of using the second 1st, they'd trade out and you just can't do that every year. You have to use the picks.

Why not? Keep in mind that there is only one first round pick for every team. So, some teams don't even have first round picks. Having two first round picks every year isn't sustainable. Trading out every year and getting another one is basically status quo for the first round, plus having a gift of a 2nd rounder every year for nothing in return (other than missing out on impact players I suppose). I'm not sure how people can criticize the Patriots. They've missed the play-offs once in the past 10 years, won the division nine times in those years, have gone to the Super Bowl twice since spygate, they even had an undefeated regular season. They may not have won the Super Bowl since spygate, but they must be doing something right.