Transmitting Orders
Is one week enough time to fight a battle or two? If so, then we will have weekly turns, and the orders will be due Saturday at midnight GMT (which is about 10am Sunday where I am)

First orders due this Saturday 17th March

My PM box keeps filling up so I have created an email address for the campaign and will pm that to all players.

Your orders can be as simple or as detailed as you like. Shucassam has actually named all the leader characters, found photographs of them, and put them in his spreadsheet - it's amazing! If you don't want to engage in exploration or diplomacy, you can just say what armies are created, where they start, and where they move to. You can just say "you lot go there" or use a notation like N1 NW2 W1 meaning move north 1 hex, north-west 2 hexes, then West 1 hex - to indicate precisely where you want to move

Yes in Divine Right you get an ambassador piece who has to move around the board to make diplomatic contacts. However in this game you have as many ambassadors (and also messengers) as you have cities or castles. You can also send your king or queen, though that could be risky. Each one starts at his home city or castle, ie the one where he was created. Most players are within about two turns' movement of another country by their envoys. -You can also use the Eaters of Wisdom or the Black Hand's services to send messages within one turn.

Don't forget that every named location on the map may have some useful resources worth exploiting and you have scouts who can be used to find out what is there, in addition to your armies. All special mercenary bases are defended by an army of 1200 points but no garrison (unless a fortification point is shown such as at Substaff Keep). The army only has to be defeated once for the mercenary band to join your forces. Alternatively you can hire the mercenaries or get them to be your allies by sending a suitable delegation (or a big enough army).

Nijis wrote:Question, and apologies in advance if I didn't see it in the manual...

I assume movement is simultaneous. If so, what sorts of provisional orders can we give in terms of attacking or retreating from other armies that we encounter? Ie, if I want to attack army of kingdom X of size Y or below, ignore others, and retreat from any other force, could I do that?

Yes though I think a Zone of Control of one hex around an army (not a detachment) would have to be enforced, otherwise there wouldn't be any battles. You can't avoid an army blocking a pass or a similar location. You can use your scouts or detachments to scout ahead of an army, though there is a chance they may be caught. Your orders can be as complex as you like but common sense should prevail.

The King of Rombune has accused the Eaters of Wisdom, who publish the Chronicle, of undue bias, and has said that the newspaper is now nothing more than a propaganda sheet for the Shucassam monarchy. However the editors of the news sheet stoutly rejected these claims, saying that they are totally independent of the Eaters of Wisdom priesthood, and receive no money from any country to publish any of their stories. They just publish the news as it comes in.

Rule clarification: how to claim new lands
You can claim "spear won" land, but you have to send troops there, and they have to traverse every hex or put the hexes in their zone of control before it can be claimed. If the region is inhabited then you will have to send more troops than otherwise, or send an ambassador, king, or queen. The number of troops necessary would vary with the number of the inhabitants and their ability to oppose any invasion of their land. For example a sparsely populated area only able to raise slingers won't provide much opposition.

A few more questions - apologies if they've been answered elsewhere...

From the player's guide:
“Diplomacy will be conducted according to the Divine Right rules with non-player interactions except where otherwise indicated.”

I'm looking at the DR rules for diplomacy. These seem to be heavily dependent on cards. Otherwise, it seems, I can send one ambassador to each king and keep trying for sixes until I get an alliance. As it is impossible to roll a modified 7, it seems that an alliance cannot be cancelled.

If we succeed in an alliance, do we then move its pieces as though it were ours? Or ask it to do things?

“This basically means you have to send a leader/messenger or unit/detachment/army to the location where diplomacy is to be conducted before it can start. “

Can I send an army into a neutral player's territory or capital without it being considered aggressive?

There is a space in the player orders for personality. Do I choose personality, or is that just for NPC monarchs?

When raising troops, do I specify the specific units or just the list? Are they limited by type? Could I, if I wanted, field an army of 80 light javelin throwing cavalry? (1920 points)

"You can claim "spear won" land, but you have to send troops there, and they have to traverse every hex or put the hexes in their zone of control before it can be claimed. If the region is inhabited then you will have to send more troops than otherwise, or send an ambassador, king, or queen. The number of troops necessary would vary with the number of the inhabitants and their ability to oppose any invasion of their land. For example a sparsely populated area only able to raise slingers won't provide much opposition."

These are neutral areas on the board that have value? If so, could you name one as an example?

Nijis wrote:A few more questions - apologies if they've been answered elsewhere...

As it is impossible to roll a modified 7, it seems that an alliance cannot be cancelled.

No another player can send an ambassador there and deactivate the country. Each turn you get a diplomacy card to use as you wish; each card has various pluses on it. Each non-player monarch has a personality card which you won't see until you engage in diplomacy with him - these affect how he reacts to diplomacy attempts and the diplomacy cards. For instance your diplomacy card might say "Crass Bribe +2" but if the King's personality is that he is honest and immune to bribes, that card will have no effect. Ambassadors can also be given personalities, again with certain plusses or minuses.

DEACTIVATING AN ENEMY-ALLIED NON-PLAYER MONARCH

Enemy-allied non-player monarchs may be persuaded to drop out of their alliance (deactivate) in a manner similar to activation. The ambassador is placed directly on the enemy-allied monarch to be deactivated, wherever that monarch happens to be - land, sea, or air. The Personality card of the monarch is read aloud. The ambassador may play any one Diplomacy card, and a die is rolled. If the result is a 7 or more, the monarch is deactivated and drops out of the enemy alliance. If a Diplomacy card was played, it is now discarded.

Nijis wrote:
If we succeed in an alliance, do we then move its pieces as though it were ours? Or ask it to do things?

"The new ally's forces, and the counter for their monarch, are set up on the playing map immediately, according to the locations specified on the unit counters. These forces may not move or attack until the next game turn.

Allied forces are moved by the owning player monarch. They may not stack with forces of any other kingdom, but they may conduct sieges, move, and attack at the same time (or in conjunction with) other friendly allied forces and/or forces of the player monarch. Mercenaries may be stacked with any friendly forces."

Nijis wrote:
“This basically means you have to send a leader/messenger or unit/detachment/army to the location where diplomacy is to be conducted before it can start. “

Can I send an army into a neutral player's territory or capital without it being considered aggressive?

Here I distinguish between neutral and non-player - neutral territory is not coloured. non-player kingdom territory is coloured.
So: No if you send an army into a non-player kingdom's territory it becomes activated and is immediately at war with you. Armies are mentioned mainly for interacting with neutral locations (e.g. the Shadow Woods) or mercenary bases or barbarians or pirates. So if you want to intimidate the mercenaries in the Lost City of Khos, for instance, you can send an army there of sufficient size and try your luck. The type of location should give an indication of what size army is needed - for somewhere like The Banished Lands, an infertile area sparsely inhabited by thieves, cut throats, and other outcasts, you can expect some resistance but not much and a detachment or two will probably be good enough - you can send a scout there first if you prefer, to find out what is there and what is needed to incorporate it into your domain

THE DIPLOMATIC PENALTY

When units of any type (except ambassadors) cross a border and enter the territory of a non-allied kingdom, the violating player is then known to the whole world as a warmonger and is subjected to the Diplomatic Penalty. Any subsequent diplomatic die rolls attempted in the violated kingdom are made with -1 subtracted from the die roll. The Diplomatic Penalty is never awarded for entering allied or enemy allied kingdoms. Once a non-allied kingdom has been violated, any subsequent violations of its territory by the same player do not result in further penalty. The Diplomatic penalty can only be removed if the king makes a pilgrimage to the Temple of Kings or if he goes to the capital of the violated kingdom, apologises to the offended king, pays any reparations demanded, and removes all his troops from that kingdom.

Nijis wrote:
There is a space in the player orders for personality. Do I choose personality, or is that just for NPC monarchs?

It's just for NPC monarchs but if you wish to do a bit of role-playing you can write up one for yourself and your other characters, as long as they don't give you an unfair advantage. Shucassam has done this and come up with some great stories, (see the Minarian Chronicles).

Nijis wrote:When raising troops, do I specify the specific units or just the list? Are they limited by type? Could I, if I wanted, field an army of 80 light javelin throwing cavalry? (1920 points)

I don't want to load you down with detail so you don't have to specify the exact troops in an army. However for an army to be able to fight it has to fit the minimums required by the list or the Multiplayer Battle system won't let it fight. That means if there are a lot of expensive minimum troops in a list then you have to ensure that the army has enough points to make at least those minimums - I don't know if there are any armies that have 600 points of required troops so this probably isn't an issue, just one to be aware of. The Field of Glory 2 Multiplayer system strictly enforces the army lists so no, sorry, you can't have an army of 80 light javelin throwing cavalry because it wouldn't be able to fight. You could have a detachment of such troops but spending 1920 points on a detachment of one troop type would seriously hamper your ability to fight a real battle as you would only have 80 points to spend on other troop types if combined with another detachment and could not possibly meet the minimums required by the list.

"You can claim "spear won" land, but you have to send troops there, and they have to traverse every hex or put the hexes in their zone of control before it can be claimed. If the region is inhabited then you will have to send more troops than otherwise, or send an ambassador, king, or queen. The number of troops necessary would vary with the number of the inhabitants and their ability to oppose any invasion of their land. For example a sparsely populated area only able to raise slingers won't provide much opposition."

These are neutral areas on the board that have value? If so, could you name one as an example?

These are listed in your country guide and/or the player guide. The two nearest Mivior are The Breaking, and Wetlands. Plus there is a mercenary base at Serpent Bay. For the Sea of Drowning Men, see your country guide. Any uncertainty about whether a hex is part of these regions will be resolved when they are explored. Remember that detachments have no zone of control. Although detachments can be split up to cover more ground, if the ground is inhabited by thieves and cut throats, expect detachments of only 24 points to be in trouble.

"I don't want to load you down with detail so you don't have to specify the exact troops in an army. However for an army to be able to fight it has to fit the minimums required by the list or the Multiplayer Battle system won't let it fight."

To clarify, we can field a 2,000 point army, and when we get into a fight we'll just be picking from the menu based on the troops the multiplayer system makes available to us? Ie, we don't need to specify any details about the army, just that it's 2000 points strong?

If so, that seems like a good idea, since it will be both simple and easily compatible with the existing system.

Nijis wrote:Thanks for the answers! Just to confirm my understanding...

"I don't want to load you down with detail so you don't have to specify the exact troops in an army. However for an army to be able to fight it has to fit the minimums required by the list or the Multiplayer Battle system won't let it fight."

To clarify, we can field a 2,000 point army, and when we get into a fight we'll just be picking from the menu based on the troops the multiplayer system makes available to us? Ie, we don't need to specify any details about the army, just that it's 2000 points strong?

If so, that seems like a good idea, since it will be both simple and easily compatible with the existing system.

Yes. On your first turn you can raise and move your army, although on the first turn you could have two 600 point armies and one 800 point army (total: 2000 pts), or some combination of armies and detachments. You can decide when you get into battle what is its exact composition. The advantage of deciding beforehand is that you can ensure that no points are wasted. Incidentally if you have a 2000 point army but find you can only spend 1998 points when you get into battle, you would get the 2 unused points back after the battle as a slight reduction in any losses incurred.

1. Thought I read you saying there was a difference between moving into/through/making contact in white neutral hexes and coloured owned ones but I can only spot a few isolated hexes of the former. Is that correct?

2. Player Guide states that each player has an ambassador at capital and messenger & scout at each other city or castle owned but that doesn't match the spreadsheet details. Which is correct?

Edit:
Looking at the map again, I realise that its the extensive light brown areas that are the neutral hexes. However now I'm puzzled why the description of many of the powers lists owned and neutral areas together. Surely if they are neutral its open to any neighbouring powers to access them. My power in contrast lists no neutral areas just the owned ones. Is this just a stylistic convention and there is no guaranteed relationship between the neutral location listed other than proximity to the power concerned or is there a deeper significance?

Last edited by Ironclad on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

"Hills, Woods, marshes, swamps, jungles, mountain passes, and Forests reduce movement by ten leagues per turn unless travelling inside your own country (as it existed at the start of the game). "

This means that if we cross one hex of these types, then we deduct 10 leagues from the total? Ie, if an army crosses any of the following terrain types, it can move 40 rather than 50 leagues? If it also crosses a river, it can move 30 leagues?

Can I move an ambassador by ship and disembark without violating the borders of another country? Also, can I move by ship, disembark, and move with 50% of MP on the same turn?

Can any units move by sea without use of a transport ship?

Can I move from Bolisc to the mainland, or through Serpent Bay or otherwise from the northern and southern halves of Mivior, without using a ship?

Just to confirm: Scouts violate border sovereignty?

Is there any list of Divine Right personality cards from which we can choose for our ambassadors?

"Hills, Woods, marshes, swamps, jungles, mountain passes, and Forests reduce movement by ten leagues per turn unless travelling inside your own country (as it existed at the start of the game). "

This means that if we cross one hex of these types, then we deduct 10 leagues from the total? Ie, if an army crosses any of the following terrain types, it can move 40 rather than 50 leagues? If it also crosses a river, it can move 30 leagues?

yes terrain penalties are cumulative, as are movement bonuses.

Nijis wrote:Can I move an ambassador by ship and disembark without violating the borders of another country? Also, can I move by ship, disembark, and move with 50% of MP on the same turn?

Nijis wrote:Can any units move by sea without use of a transport ship?

No but ambassadors get use of a free royal yacht

Nijis wrote:Can I move from Bolisc to the mainland, or through Serpent Bay or otherwise from the northern and southern halves of Mivior, without using a ship?

No

Nijis wrote:Just to confirm: Scouts violate border sovereignty?

Scouts are effectively spies outside your home territory, they hide and don't cause diplomatic incidents but there is a possibility that they be caught and arrested in other kingdoms - how players react on finding one is up to them

Nijis wrote:Is there any list of Divine Right personality cards from which we can choose for our ambassadors?

Not really however they are included in the Vassal mod in a vmdx file - probably you can edit that file to find out what the list is, but anyway I'll do the ambassador personalities.

1. Thought I read you saying there was a difference between moving into/through/making contact in white neutral hexes and coloured owned ones but I can only spot a few isolated hexes of the former. Is that correct?

2. Player Guide states that each player has an ambassador at capital and messenger & scout at each other city or castle owned but that doesn't match the spreadsheet details. Which is correct?

Edit:
Looking at the map again, I realise that its the extensive light brown areas that are the neutral hexes. However now I'm puzzled why the description of many of the powers lists owned and neutral areas together. Surely if they are neutral its open to any neighbouring powers to access them. My power in contrast lists no neutral areas just the owned ones. Is this just a stylistic convention and there is no guaranteed relationship between the neutral location listed other than proximity to the power concerned or is there a deeper significance?

Yes I just listed all the territories close to player countries in which they might be interested and only listed them once rather than repeating them over and over for all nearby players. The spreadsheet is correct - you have five cities or castles and get an ambassador at every city or castle, with the ambassador at the capital being the senior ambassador. They start the game at each of their respective home towns. However you still only get one diplomacy card per turn. You can keep all your diplomacy cards until they are used but can only use one card in a diplomacy attempt.

Terrain effects are cumulative and applied on a per hex basis. If the terrain cost for a given hex would cause a unit to exceed its movement allowance, the unit may not enter the hex. However, any unit may always move a single hex, even if it does not otherwise possess sufficient movement to do so.

No, how many nations have you heard of that have multiple royal yachts? Your senior ambassador (the one from the capital) can use the royal yacht and can start the game already loaded on it but that's the only royal yacht you have. Well I suppose the other ambassadors could use it but he would get first priority.

So, which rules are we using? I have d/l all the items you had links to.. The official boardgame rules are contrary to some of the things that appear to apply to this game...

I guess at this time the only question I have is, does an ambassador need to MOVE to a CAPITOL to conduct diplomacy. (and not just reach any city or castle) The rule say the latter, you imply the former in one of your posts...

Also... the bg rules have diplocmay seperate from army movement...

I assume our orders are all encompassing
So I will move my scouts/ambassadors, AND raise armies as I please and then can order movement all this ist turn?

(dont worry I will get my moves in as I know today is the deadline, but it might be closer to midnite!)

TheGrayMouser wrote:So, which rules are we using? I have d/l all the items you had links to.. The official boardgame rules are contrary to some of the things that appear to apply to this game...

I guess at this time the only question I have is, does an ambassador need to MOVE to a CAPITOL to conduct diplomacy. (and not just reach any city or castle) The rule say the latter, you imply the former in one of your posts...

I'm using the 2nd Edition Divine Right rules as far as possible with modifications. So you can one to five ambassadors at the start of the game (depending on the number of cities or castles you control) but they do have to get to a capital or a mercenary base to conduct diplomacy. Also there are no special mercenary cards, you have to conquer a mercenary base or hire troops there or get it to join you via diplomacy.

TheGrayMouser wrote:
Also... the bg rules have diplocmay seperate from army movement...

I assume our orders are all encompassing
So I will move my scouts/ambassadors, AND raise armies as I please and then can order movement all this ist turn?

(dont worry I will get my moves in as I know today is the deadline, but it might be closer to midnite!)

Yes orders are executed simultaneously so send them all in. If you are conducting diplomacy at more than one site please indicate which one will be using a diplomacy card. It's past midnight here so I'm going to bed.

"Terrain effects are cumulative and applied on a per hex basis. If the terrain cost for a given hex would cause a unit to exceed its movement allowance, the unit may not enter the hex. However, any unit may always move a single hex, even if it does not otherwise possess sufficient movement to do so."

So we should basically treat a rough terrain hex as 20 movement points? In this case, if we move at all on mountains, we lose half of our MP total and THEN we pay double movement for each rough terrain hex outside our realm?

Could I suggest a simpler movement point-based system? Ie, 20 MP for a rough terrain hex, 40 MP for mountains, 10 MP to cross a river? You can move by land or move by sea, but not both? (Ie, no worrying about embarkation/debarkation.) Otherwise, combining deduction of points plus the halving effects is going to get very confusing.

No, how many nations have you heard of that have multiple royal yachts? Your senior ambassador (the one from the capital) can use the royal yacht and can start the game already loaded on it but that's the only royal yacht you have. Well I suppose the other ambassadors could use it but he would get first priority.

No, what I meant was - I use the yacht to take ambassador A in port C to point X. Then I want to use it to transport ambassador B in port D to point Y. Do I need to shuttle the yacht back and forth like a piece, or do I just move one ambassador per turn by sea?

I have to admit I am struggling with the movement system. The PDF "rules" bases movement on leagues per turn but then states use the rules from the boardgame which basically give cost per hex cost ( which makes more sense) The PDF rules complicate things by saying you can move 50 leagues outside your country but 60 inside... There are two movement systems here that are hard to reconcile.
If I move 4 hexes inside my own country, reach a border, then how many hexes can I cross in the "enemy nation" ?? 1 more,?? or do I have to do the rather complicated math to determine that I can move 1.36 into enemy terrain ( which in practice would be 1...) This is complicated and doesnt even cover different terrain types and special abilities. For example Zorn has a " movement bonus of 10 leagues per turn" in hills mountains outside the home country... This is easy if the army starts outside and is in ALL mountains its entire move ( ie 6 hexes) Not soe easy in any other situation

I think we need a sample on how YOU envision this working...

I suggest like Njis simpler system like the boardgame. A Fixed cost to enter a hex. Get rid of the basis per tun
Example
Army that start in home country have 6 MP's Any other situation they get 5 move points . You need equal or greater points to enter a hex. Special rules per nation apply
Clear hex 1 MP to enter
hills etc ( whatever) 2
etc

So a normal army (outside his nation) has 5MP, it could move 4 hexes in clear but could not enter that last hill hex that costs two. Unless its a goblin army which then cost of the "hill" is 1/2 or 1 MP (5 mp total)

If that same Goblin Army started in his home terrain( he woud get 6 MP) and woud able to move 4 hexes clear and the two hills...

You are basically misinterpreting what I wrote, which probably should have been clearer, what I meant was that each hex you go through reduces your turn's move by a certain amount, and any penalties apply to each hex. I chose to use the turn 10 leagues instead of one hex as that's what you do in a campaign but it means the same thing. If you can't cope with using "leagues" then divide by 10 and use "hexes".

OK so there's a conflict between role-playing a campaign and boardgaming the movement but you forget that the GM actually does the movement, and can immediately resolve any such problems; you only have to state the destination of your army not exactly what hexes it will traverse. I am trying to speed the game up a bit and see having two movement rates as no problem, that sort of thing does happen in other games. Thankyou for pointing out a problem so we'll make it that if you have a choice of movement rates you always have to take the slower rate, so when crossing a border your whole move is reduced to five hexes if leaving the country and stays the same at five hexes when entering a kingdom.

The actual rule is that all units with a terrain bonus move through that terrain as if it were clear terrain, except that those with a mountain terrain bonus. My intention was that for mountains if you move through ten mountain hexes or one mountain hex, it doesn't matter, your entire move is reduced to half the normal move (not your remaining movement is reduced by half) and if you don't have enough movement to enter a hex then you can't enter it although you can always move one hex. That means if you can move five hexes normally then you will move two hexes through two mountain hexes or two hexes through a mountain hex and a clear hex. If you move two clear terrain hexes and then encounter a mountain hex, you can't move into it that turn unless you are in your home country - when having a six hex movement halved would allow you to move there and then stop. If all this makes no sense then you can go back to the slower (and much more frustrating) movement of the game which is that mountains cost three movement points and you have to stop moving if you enter a mountain hex unless you have the mountain movement bonus. The original rules say that a mountain movement bonus just means you don't have to stop moving if you enter a mountain hex, but I have altered that to make it more like a mountain movement bonus means you can tread mountains almost like hills.