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Websleuths News

Join Websleuths Radio for the final discussion of THE KILLING SEASON
with Josh Zemam, Rachel Mills and special guests including Bob Kolker author of Lost Girls

How could he have given these items to the cabbie ... the shirt pictured here is the same as he was wearing when caught......
OR Did joran just give him the 'shirt right off his back'......pardon me for leaving a little humor here......LOL

"I also counter the "fact" that Joran strangled Stephany with his own shirt with the previous "facts" that the murder weapon was a baseball bat, tennis racket or professional karate chop which broke her neck. All of these "facts" were not lost in translation, they came from the medical examiner or the chief of the investigation in Peru."

It is simply not true that you have not asked for links regarding the facts of this case, Unreals. It was just a day or so ago that you asked for (and received) a link to the Hotel Tac. And, no... I'm not going to chase down that link, like I just did above, to prove it. You've asked for (and received) many links from the posters of this forum. I stand by my opinion that you're taking advantage of the posters of this forum to do the research for your book.

I don't have (and won't have) any further questions of you.

I said that they came from the medical examiner OR the chief of the investigation. I'm pretty certain the baseball bat was mentioned by the Peruvian police (at least for a day), but if it only came from Nancy Grace, then that is certainly a major television network. If I can't mention information broadcast from her show, then why does almost every poster here mention things they've seen on there? If discussion of the crime scene has to rely exclusively on sources you, or someone else here, trusts, then it seems to me that Nancy Grace, JVM, Geraldo, etc. should never be quoted on this forum. They obviously are, so why is my observation of the inconsistencies, reported by the same sources that provide the grist for virtually all the discussion on this forum, held to a different standard?

I did ask for the hotel link, and if I didn't thank the person who provided it, I apologize and do so now. I really don't recall asking for any other links, except when questioning the rumors about Joran's past crimes, which as far as I know can all only be traced to anonymous Arubans. I resent the fact that you believe I am here to ask people to do research for me- what do you think I've been doing for the past several months? We've done plenty of research, and have an abundance of evidence.

You keep saying I'm avoiding questions- what have I avoided? I told you that I can't give the names of any conspirators- how could I know that with any certainty? All I can do is use my prior knowledge of the events in Aruba, and assess the "facts" in this case as they are reported, and especially when they change. From all that, I have formed the theory that Joran was framed for the murder of Stephany, and that this was connected in some way to the Natalee Holloway case. I think I've made my views as clear as anyone else here. I haven't psychoanalyzed Joran from a distance with the confidence that many here have, or described in great detail exactly how he struck the blows, or what kind of fight Stephany put up, as others here have. That's fine- I'm not demanding that they provide proof for their scenarios.

Thanks for that. I've been trying to contact the hotel to see if the room had a bath in it. This is crucial- if Joran's room had no bathroom, then it would have been impossible for him to clean up after this (at least the way it is being described now) bloody crime. If he left to clean up in the bathroom in the hall, then that should be visible on the video.

The main problem I see, Unreals, is that your suppositions fly in the face of overwhelming amounts of evidence to the contrary. There are other threads where we debate back and forth as to whether we think someone is guilty or not. But, this is just so incredibly obvious. There is no conspiracy on earth that would set up a young girl to be killed, so that Joran could be bagged. I just don't believe that is possible. Further, were he innocent of even the Natalee case, he wouldn't have done so many things to make himself look guilty. That defies common sense. Innocent people do not behave as Joran has behaved for the last five years.

The main problem I see, Unreals, is that your suppositions fly in the face of overwhelming amounts of evidence to the contrary. There are other threads where we debate back and forth as to whether we think someone is guilty or not. But, this is just so incredibly obvious. There is no conspiracy on earth that would set up a young girl to be killed, so that Joran could be bagged. I just don't believe that is possible. Further, were he innocent of even the Natalee case, he wouldn't have done so many things to make himself look guilty. That defies common sense. Innocent people do not behave as Joran has behaved for the last five years.

But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?

But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?

When the Hotel Tac website was available, it showed a rather modern shower stall in photos of the rooms. I haven't been able to access the website recently.

It shows some photos in this link, FLNY. But I'm not sure the shower stalls and baths are available in all rooms. I'm sure there was a sink and toilet in the 'economy' rooms, though. Sure would be nice to know for sure.

Hi Nervous.....great link to the "Tacky" hotel.......pictures of the room are great.......

INM Joran took the cheapest room as per the Clerks transcript.....$50

If that is the case, I would imagine that his room didn't have the fancy shower stall.....but the tub kind as shown in the hotel room pictures.

I also noted that the bedspread in the pictures seem to be the same as the one found in Room 309. Most hotels have the same spread throughout all their rooms.....when they order them from their bedding supply company.

But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?

I think it makes perfect sense if you consider that Joran probably didn't go to the room with the intention of killing her. He isn't that stupid. He lost his cool for some reason and beat her to death. Everything flows from there. He couldn't figure out a way to get rid of her body after he had already killed her and so took off. There would be no reason for him to flee Peru in the manner in which he did, if he had no involvement in the murder. He was scheduled to be at things that he didn't show up at. So, clearly he was intending to stick around until he up and killed Stephany.

I am shocked he didn't harm any of the hotel workers in a plight to destroy the videos when he looked up and noticed the camera in the hallway.
I sometimes wonder if that is what he may have been trying to do when he went and got the one hotel worker to let him in his room. Maybe , push the worker in there as he was unlocking the door for him and then go grab the video recordings and flee the hotel.