My thoughts are that even though I'm not entirely jumping on board with this, I have seen a lot of Orthodox Christians involved in Freemasonry. The shockers are the Patriarchs, which will take some time to dissolve and rationality to come into play once the shock wears off. I'll have to figure out the validity. Interested in some other's opinions.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

The Orthodox Church is clear that one cannot be a faithful Orthodox Christian and a Freemason. Yes, some within the Orthodox Church are Freemasons, even high ranking clergymen. It is scandalous, but lots of people live in defiance of the Church's teaching. All sin is scandalous.

Logged

"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.” -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope

Before the following paragraph from the bottom of that page there is an image of a double-headed eagle with the caption "The ABOMINATION of DESOLATION" (capitalization, his):

We might see how other issues play a part in this slow break down of Orthodox Empires. This all started with Byzantium in 1204 when the Masonic Crusaders pillaged the once great city. Constantinople’s downfall became total in 1453 by the Turks who are now masons as well. Then in Russia it began with Ivan the Terrible in the 16th century and finally wiping out the Orthodox Church by the hands of Nikon in the 17th century (some wrongly say the last vestige of the Russian Empire left in the 20th century). This is how it develops. Freemasonry can then be tied into American Indian Prophecy with the 2-headed snake which ends up devouring all the towns and cities. They say it is no coincidence that the bald eagle is an American symbol. The debut of the two-headed eagle can be attributed to a foreshadowing of eventual ruin to those rulers that take it.

How many references does it take for something to be "undeniable"? At what point does the amount of referenced material equal infallibility? And as an aside perhaps more appropriate for the Orthodox-Catholic forum- does this infallibility outweigh the Pope's, or is it the Pontiff's impressive list of references that make his ex cathedra statements infallible (and once I get an answer to my first question here, perhaps we Orthodox can finally figure out just which statements are then ex cathedra, by reference counting)?

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"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are." TH White

Before the following paragraph from the bottom of that page there is an image of a double-headed eagle with the caption "The ABOMINATION of DESOLATION" (capitalization, his):

We might see how other issues play a part in this slow break down of Orthodox Empires. This all started with Byzantium in 1204 when the Masonic Crusaders pillaged the once great city. Constantinople’s downfall became total in 1453 by the Turks who are now masons as well. Then in Russia it began with Ivan the Terrible in the 16th century and finally wiping out the Orthodox Church by the hands of Nikon in the 17th century (some wrongly say the last vestige of the Russian Empire left in the 20th century). This is how it develops. Freemasonry can then be tied into American Indian Prophecy with the 2-headed snake which ends up devouring all the towns and cities. They say it is no coincidence that the bald eagle is an American symbol. The debut of the two-headed eagle can be attributed to a foreshadowing of eventual ruin to those rulers that take it.

So Freemasons are a world-destroying evil of such greatness that any Orthodox person is tainted by it, ecumenism is the root of all evil, American Indian Prophecies are the gospel truth?

Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are." TH White

Before the following paragraph from the bottom of that page there is an image of a double-headed eagle with the caption "The ABOMINATION of DESOLATION" (capitalization, his):

We might see how other issues play a part in this slow break down of Orthodox Empires. This all started with Byzantium in 1204 when the Masonic Crusaders pillaged the once great city. Constantinople’s downfall became total in 1453 by the Turks who are now masons as well. Then in Russia it began with Ivan the Terrible in the 16th century and finally wiping out the Orthodox Church by the hands of Nikon in the 17th century (some wrongly say the last vestige of the Russian Empire left in the 20th century). This is how it develops. Freemasonry can then be tied into American Indian Prophecy with the 2-headed snake which ends up devouring all the towns and cities. They say it is no coincidence that the bald eagle is an American symbol. The debut of the two-headed eagle can be attributed to a foreshadowing of eventual ruin to those rulers that take it.

So Freemasons are a world-destroying evil of such greatness that any Orthodox person is tainted by it, ecumenism is the root of all evil, American Indian Prophecies are the gospel truth?

We have seen the true light; we have received the heavenly Spirit; we have found the true faith, worshiping the undivided Indians, for the Prophecy has saved us.

I don't entirely agree with him, so let me make that clear. There are things that are a stretch for sure. Not sure if some of you know about the luciferian faith of Freemasonry. http://www.freemasonrywatch.org

Of course they do. The Masons are Jewish reptilians from the space that want to chip us in order to take control over the world. They have already infiltrated all the governments and religious organisations and media and everything.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

When John Alden compiles them and interprets them for us (by telling us that the photos represent connections to Freemasonry when they could really be of anything, even something totally unrelated to Freemasonry), then maybe they do lie.

Most of those photos don't mean a thing. In fact, at least one of them is very blurry, one of them merely shows a bishop at a Lions Club meeting (a photo, of course, being unable to substantiate claims that the Lions Club is Masonic), and the rest seem to lack English language captions so I'm not sure what the photos are even supposed to be of. Then there was at least one (the one about Patriarch Demetrios) that I am not sure of any reason to believe it is authentic. Especially when, searching for a reference to him being a Mason, the only pages on Google were True Orthodox sites, and their like. Consequently, I question the validity of the photo, as - if it is what it claims to be - it would seem that the whole Orthodox world would know the Patriarch was a Mason.

You know, I think that some folks spend way too much time watching stupid programs on the so-called "History Channel" and its sister networks for their own good. They had a really stupid one on Masonry yesterday which I watched for about 10 minutes on their 'Americas Book of Secrets' series. Same old, same old...shocking promos, five minutes of teasing, a minute of 'information', a commercial break, a rehash of the previous segment and a clip from some self-professed 'expert'. Just like 'Ancient Aliens.'

Of course they do. The Masons are Jewish reptilians from the space that want to chip us in order to take control over the world. They have already infiltrated all the governments and religious organisations and media and everything.

Logged

"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.” -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope

Of course they do. The Masons are Jewish reptilians from the space that want to chip us in order to take control over the world. They have already infiltrated all the governments and religious organisations and media and everything.

Har har har. Seriously though, I think it's all the secretive stuff and the stuff that blends religions or ecumenizes things, or something along those lines. I know ROCOR officially condemned it in the 20th century, did anyone else?

When John Alden compiles them and interprets them for us (by telling us that the photos represent connections to Freemasonry when they could really be of anything, even something totally unrelated to Freemasonry), then maybe they do lie.

The Orthodox Church is clear that one cannot be a faithful Orthodox Christian and a Freemason. Yes, some within the Orthodox Church are Freemasons, even high ranking clergymen. It is scandalous, but lots of people live in defiance of the Church's teaching. All sin is scandalous.

But the site shows points of ecumenical Patriarchs being Freemasons. (It's not just his site, but links to several sites along with photos).

Of course they do. The Masons are Jewish reptilians from the space that want to chip us in order to take control over the world. They have already infiltrated all the governments and religious organisations and media and everything.

The problem with your statement is that you lump together obvious delusional issues, with real ones. The reptilian (David Ike) issues (clearly delusional), RFID chipping issues (people would never accept), and Jewish Zionism are different.

Masonry is a very secret organization and there are lodges in ALMOST every small town in America. The entire US government is embedded with Freemasons. The Freemasons text "morals and dogma" by Albert Pike directly call Lucifer the "God of Masonry". Even presidents of past have spoken against the Masons and how they have a grasp on the government.

To make a mixture of Freemasonry along with clear delusional conspiracy and to add in semi backed conspiratorial issues is either a joke, or a horrible attempt to discredit the Freemason "conspiracy". I haven't met a reptilian, but masons are all over the place. LOL

Now with that said, I don't think it would be impossible for many of the upper clergy of the EO church to be Freemasons.

I find some of the photographs pretty amazing, and would not doubt that Masonry is behind the ecumenism movement as Masonry accepts all faiths under "one God".

I like to keep an open mind when dealing with these issues. Some of them are very real, and there are many EO brothers and sisters who will testify to them.

When John Alden compiles them and interprets them for us (by telling us that the photos represent connections to Freemasonry when they could really be of anything, even something totally unrelated to Freemasonry), then maybe they do lie.

Like Bishops in front of Obelisks?

So a bishop stands in front of the Washington Monument? Why is that such a big deal?

BTW, I'd like to know where you see that picture, because it certainly isn't on the Web page you linked in your OP.

I'm not an expert on Masonry, but my own opinion is that Christians should not be involved in any type of "secret society" that involves oaths, pledges, swearings, etc. The reason is because I believe such organizations and groups are essentially counterfeit replacements of The Church. Such groups usually promise the hope of unity, fraternity, brotherhood, the accomplishing of certain goals (which are often quite noble goals), solidarity, etc. In other words, they offer things that can only truly and authentically be found in and through the Church. Also, such groups can often instill a sense of superiority and foster prejudice. "Our fraternity is the best." "We are special because we are part of this select, secret organization." etc.

Certainly, some secret organizations are more nefarious than others. Skull and Bones and Free Masonry are probably more frought with subversive doctrines and evil ideas than the average college fraternity. But as a personal rule, I eschew any involvement in groups or organizations that involve secret pledges and such. If we are part of The Church, then what more do we need to be a part of? What do these organizations and groups offer us that we cannot find in and through the Church? Whatever they offer that the Church does not is at best superfluous to our salvation, and at worst detrimental to it.

Selam

Logged

"God is a consuming fire. And His fire is love."+ Gebre Menfes Kidus +

I know where I live, for almost a century, there have been Masonic lodges & Orthodox Churches within walking distance of another that will probably fold from mutual declining membership. There will probably a growth in mosque formation though. When we are under sharia we will still be concerned about fweemasons & whistlers.

This piece on the old Masonic Temple in my hometown is as good a rebuttal to all of the conspiracy minded folks out there. Old guys with funny hats and secret oaths.....I don't think they are nearing their hopes of global domination. By the way, is it a shock to anyone that the founding fathers of the USA, given a chance to build a national capitol out of a swamp - built in the century following Peter the Great's icon to his ambition - St. Petersburg - that they would want a design intended to evoke the aspirations and promise of the American Revolution and the potential of the Republic which it led to? Get real.

When John Alden compiles them and interprets them for us (by telling us that the photos represent connections to Freemasonry when they could really be of anything, even something totally unrelated to Freemasonry), then maybe they do lie.

Like Bishops in front of Obelisks?

So a bishop stands in front of the Washington Monument? Why is that such a big deal?

BTW, I'd like to know where you see that picture, because it certainly isn't on the Web page you linked in your OP.

Sorry was a different site, was the Vatican Obelisk.

Of course there are more shocking things than standing in front of an obelisk. One look at the Mitre and you see the Eagles of "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike. Ironic photo too, since many hold ecumenism as Masonic.

Remember, in Morals and Dogma, "Lucifer" is literally referred to as "The God of Freemasonry".

Archbishop Seraphim is pictured with the Lions Club, which is absolutely not masonic.

Don't tell that to a fellow who believes even the Boy Scouts are masonic.

"Regarding the organizations linked to Freemasonry, here’s one that is usually a surprise to many, the ScoutingMovement. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder was a Mason. The following quote comes from Kitchen, Yvonne.Freemasonry Death In The Family. Fruitful Vine, PO Box 1112, Mountain Gate, Victoria 3156, Australia. 1997.ISBN 0-646-34807-8. Page 156 “Even the Scouts and Girl Guides have their roots in Lord Baden-Powell’sFreemasonry. He was a well-known Mason in the Lodge of the Grand Orient.”

I would not attack his rationale in oder to thrash his character to discredit everything he has posted. People do make mistakes, but that doesn't make everything they say wrong. I don't agree with 100% of what anybody says, but it doesn't make them completely wrong on every subject. I happen to believe the Boy Scouts DO have Masonic roots and Masonic based ceremonies. There is logical evidence that supports this.

You know, I think that some folks spend way too much time watching stupid programs on the so-called "History Channel" and its sister networks for their own good. They had a really stupid one on Masonry yesterday which I watched for about 10 minutes on their 'Americas Book of Secrets' series. Same old, same old...shocking promos, five minutes of teasing, a minute of 'information', a commercial break, a rehash of the previous segment and a clip from some self-professed 'expert'. Just like 'Ancient Aliens.'

Har har har. Seriously though, I think it's all the secretive stuff and the stuff that blends religions or ecumenizes things, or something along those lines. I know ROCOR officially condemned it in the 20th century, did anyone else?

This piece on the old Masonic Temple in my hometown is as good a rebuttal to all of the conspiracy minded folks out there. Old guys with funny hats and secret oaths.....I don't think they are nearing their hopes of global domination. By the way, is it a shock to anyone that the founding fathers of the USA, given a chance to build a national capitol out of a swamp - built in the century following Peter the Great's icon to his ambition - St. Petersburg - that they would want a design intended to evoke the aspirations and promise of the American Revolution and the potential of the Republic which it led to? Get real.

Of course... Not including the google map link I posted above where the Eastern Star is ridden in the streets of Washington D.C. (This is in museums in D.C. where they talked about the street design too).

Global dominance.... Of course not.... Political figures across the globe... No way. Religious personages & clergy... How could it be?

I'm not trying to be rude to you, but Masonry is extremely powerful and is involved in governments and religious institutions worldwide. 1 lodge going down does not speak for the broad spectrum of Masonry.

Again, I DON'T support everything on the OP, but I believe the site shows definite Masonic personages involved in EO clergy & churches.

Have you ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric condition that leads one to have paranoid fantasies?

Even though rules are more loosely applied here than on other sections, we do not tolerate ad hominem attacks. In this instance, JamesRottneck is implying that the arguments made by another poster should be discounted because the person putting forth the argument may have paranoid delusions. He is not attacking the argument put forth; instead he is attacking the potential mental stability of the person with which he is arguing. Therefore, JamesRottnek is warned for 14 days. James--if you disagree, please free to contact Fr George or Fr Chris. Second Chance

I would take anything from a website which blasts the Boyscouts as being "masonic" with a grain of salt, and perhaps a bottle or five of absinthe.

Dude, that will kill you, bro. Kill you dead.

As for the OP, I'm not sure masonry is something Orthodox folks should get into. My Priest is very opposed to it. That's enough for me.

The funny thing is, the Boy Scouts were founded in Masonry, and their ceremonies mimic masonic ceremonies and the "prayers" are to "universal gods", but this is besides the point.

What "ceremonies" would those be? The BSA doesn't have set ceremonies for anything. Prayers are not to "universal gods," but rather are worded in such a way so that each boy (or girl, for Ventures) is able to conceptualize it to their own particular mode of belief. Scouting is a multi-faith movement that only requires of its members (at least in America) that one believes in some form of higher power.

So, according to the OP, we are to believe that the Bishops,priests, lay advisors, parents and scouts who are dedicated to the Eastern Orthodox Committee on Scouting are actually minions of Lucifer? http://eocs.org/ Back to that bridge in Brooklyn folks.....