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Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Why was Clarice allowed to live if colourheads are executed on the spot? She must be special in some way. I wonder what differentiates her from the rest..

My first thought was that it was because of changing times and Audrey's generation being weak in general. Every warrior counted so why would they kill one if it could be useful (even as a bait ).

But reading the whole scene on page 28 gave me a possible answer to your question which I believe is most likely to be true. Look at the text again:

Originally Posted by Gernot's translation

The way to execute a colorhead is super easy. All you have to do is to make her youki run wild just a little because colorheads can't bear the impulse to awaken.
Rado laughed while he told me that their body scatters away on the spot.

This "executing on the spot"and "making youki run wild" bothered me. How would they trigger it? Did they have anti-suppressant pills (AKA Viagra for Claymores)? Don't think so. I think that Rado's information (and the way he presented it, i.e. in a mocking way) was supposed to be a a test. If the provocation would work it would mean that Claymore was to no good and could be disposed of (unless he broke apart by himself first). If not that would mean that he could be of some use (assuming he would pass the test or he could be given a pass without it).

On a different matter, has anyone else been comparing Waychanger's translation with Gernot's? I didn't find any major differences besides the one on page 15 where Gernot's translation makes more sense IMO. Compare "No matter what type of ABs our opponents might be, they are likely to be experienced" (now why would that be?) with "No matter what type of awakened she turned out to be, the more experience the opponent has with that type, the more certain it is that a drawn-out battle will be to our disadvantage." Maybe Utsune or God Eye Galatea could shed some light on this. You can find raw page here (or whole raw on Manga Head or Sen Manga). BTW, what does "biki" sound like? Do you recall anything (in a manga or a book) that would sound similarly? Or should I take anime as canon?

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

I think Clarice surviving aside from being colored head would've because the organization was short on main power warriors perhaps there was only 46 warriors with normal hair colors an to complement those 47 the organization got no choice but to give Clarice a number will make her 47.

Now we ve seen her face a opponents an she's the worse it a all she got close to cero accurate aiming missing all attack she make it.
Now here me wonder how the Clarice survive the test graduation in were they face real danger just remember clare graduation an Clarice it's the worse claymore at all time unless she use team work I doubt she get any chance for survival.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Originally Posted by serpico

I think Clarice surviving aside from being colored head would've because the organization was short on main power warriors perhaps there was only 46 warriors with normal hair colors an to complement those 47 the organization got no choice but to give Clarice a number will make her 47.

Now we ve seen her face a opponents an she's the worse it a all she got close to cero accurate aiming missing all attack she make it.
Now here me wonder how the Clarice survive the test graduation in were they face real danger just remember clare graduation an Clarice it's the worse claymore at all time unless she use team work I doubt she get any chance for survival.

The title too (stepping in to darkness) an (urge to darkness) at least maga stream and gernot translation title that the another little difference this time no mayor change

I feel like clarice, is a psuedo clare. or in other words shes going to die. yagi really built up her personality and traits pretty well. But, the name he gave her sounds way to much like clare. So I see her as a sacrifice. I also see miata as a sacrifice. You can not have war without death. I still feel Galatia is going to die as well.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

@Goral
Sorry for the late reply, I totally missed your post. Thanks for pointing that out. After looking at it for a while, I finally realise what happened when the respective parties did their translation, lol, and it really is lol. I shall use the Japanese raw as the base.

Originally Posted by Very Literal Japanese--->English Translation (Gernot's approach)

Under ordinary circumstances, things would be settled in one go as Miata awakes
No matter what type of Awakened Being it is "the experience of the opponent in that" is in proportion to
"Extended battle will surely become our disadvantage"

Originally Posted by Very Literal Japanese--->English Translation (TSS's and Waychanger's approach)

Under ordinary circumstances, things would be settled in one go as Miata awakes
No matter what type of Awakened Being it is on the note of "the experience of the opponent in that"
"Extended battle will surely become our disadvantage"

(Note: "that" is probably referring to "being an Awakened Being")

The keyword here is 分 (notice this character right at the end of the middle sentence.) In Gernot's version, this 分 is used to mean "in proportion to," "just as much as," meaning the first phrase (experience) is proportionally correlated to the second phrase (disadvantage.) (More experience they have, more disadvantage to us.)

In Waychanger's version, this 分 signifies "by that account," "on that note," and so the first phrase uses its idea (opponent has experience in 'that') to determine the outcome of the second phrase (but no further detail such as the precise relationship between the two phrases.) As such, the translation could become "Regardless of the type of AB it is, the opponent having experience in 'that' will make extended fight become a disadvantage to us."

Interestingly, the Chinese TSS group translates something with an idea similar to Waychanger (although with a LOT of added own interpretation lol... but in a way this clears your uncertainty in Waychanger's take on the dialogue):

Originally Posted by Chinese(TSS)--->English

Regardless of the type of Awakened Being the opponent is, they will have at least some experience battling as an Awakened Being

For me personally, I side with Gernot's version (for reasons slightly more technical than just the simply meaning of 分," but I wouldn't say the other is completely wrong. I think it's in some way a matter of how you are brought up to learn implications of phrases and words. Sometimes a word can have multiple meaning, some more common, some less common, (some even wrong, but people just incorrectly learn them for life, even for natives)... Some people are bound to take the less common form just because they've grown up with that meaning. And I can see why the second translation is also considered, as the implication behind it can still make sense: No matter what type or abilities the opponent AB is or has, because they have at least the experience of being in their Awakened form for longer than Miata has been (5 seconds lol,) they are sure to have the advantage in fighting as an AB, i.e. being used to fighting in AB form more than Miata is.

Comparing the two version, I think the idea is the same (the way to go about it is different, i.e. possibly different implications that can be significant.) The proportional idea is more elaborated. But regardless of either, the main idea is the same. Miata has less experience fighting as an AB, and anyone else who has been an AB for longer will surely have more experience in such. This will therefore become Miata's disadvantage in a dragged out battle.

@Goral
Oh and about the 'biki' thing, although I'm usually bad with these onomatopoeia stuff, is the sound from the anime kinda short snappy sharp and somewhat wind/electricity like? That's my impression of it anyway :P (Surprisingly I actually only watched a few episodes, never finished it haha!)

Biribiri is the sound of electricity, for your reference, and they're kinda similar I guess, in a way that they beings with 'b' and uses only the 'i' vowel.

Last edited by Utsune; August 11, 2013 at 05:19 PM.
Reason: you may have realised I'm pretty ocd about my spelling by now

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

I liked the chapter. Miata craving for guts was for some reason creepy, perhaps because I always picture her as a little innocent girl in my mind. Europa actually got the upper hand against Miata, I honestly wasn't expecting this outcome, it's an interesting twist that the surroundings can completely change the tide of a battle at this level. Clarice is also getting character development which is fine, even though she is a claymore, her role was more humane in the grand scheme of events.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Originally Posted by Miyagi

I liked the chapter. Miata craving for guts was for some reason creepy, perhaps because I always picture her as a little innocent girl in my mind. Europa actually got the upper hand against Miata, I honestly wasn't expecting this outcome, it's an interesting twist that the surroundings can completely change the tide of a battle at this level. Clarice is also getting character development which is fine, even though she is a claymore, her role was more humane in the grand scheme of events.

i ehard someone question miria survivign against a superior opponnent before. europa is my answer. a being who has more experience can survive against a superior opponnent if they are careful. miata, though likely worlds more powerful than europa, is newly awakened and thus inexperienced with her new form. she analyzued her opponent's weaknesses and took advantage of them, just as miria did.
though if clarice is somehow able to direct and keep miata focused, europa would be doomed.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Hate to say but I expected a bit more from Hysteria, too. The thing with Europa now is, she's got such a specific kind of attack, and in the general case that requires anal---wait-for-it---ysis, just as lordoffantasy has mentioned for Hysteria's fight. By this convention, there is no way Miata can do that on her own, and would be highly uninteresting if Clarice & Miata simply regain control to win the fight... unless Miata unleashes her secret super hidden power and dump all analysis aside...

The thing with anal--------wait for it ------ysis is that, I do agree they will sometimes come off as anal-pull, this happens in so many shounen manga, but I guess half the time the all-powerful editor of the manga has something to do with it... lol. Reasoning include, "people won't understand it" or "this would take far too long..." but it really does throw it right in your face, especially for manga with good logic foundation at first, it'll be the "huh? how could that have worked?" kinda reaction for the readers who prioritise reasoning and will be difficult to accept fluffy reasoning when it comes to characters winning some fights.

Though for this current arc, half of me expects, all the warriors will come together and help Clarice and Miata and they'll win the fight together as a bunch. (1) They've had so many double pages of warriors in cool poses in the last few chapters, they can't just get embarrassingly kicked out of the fight like that (which again, links back to your stance on Europa's latent power.) (2) Clarice just had her confession of a lifetime, unless Claymore is serialised in seinen magazines, I do expect a happy resolution and, in the event she dies, gets a satisfying death being accept by all the warriors (including the ones who half-insulted her at the beginning.)

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

But if you looked the other way the ghost joining force with the awakened banging together are unable to beat Cassandra with are a level above from the last generation
Although casandra too if a level above Europe but they continue to referred Europe it a abisal level however as you said the Last generation can serveas bait to distracted Europe while miata finished it off

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Originally Posted by serpico

But if you looked the other way the ghost joining force with the awakened banging together are unable to beat Cassandra with are a level above from the last generation
Although casandra too if a level above Europe but they continue to referred Europe it a abisal level however as you said the Last generation can serveas bait to distracted Europe while miata finished it off

If clare do not access to Pandora box. I.don't see ho she can face it Priscilla after all even between so many they are having trouble against casandra left along Priscilla?!!

To be really honest (and I highly doubt I'm the only one who thinks this) but I don't understand why Cassy still ain't dead. Has she like, kinda absorbed some of Prissy's power? Did she kinda supressed Prissy in the end? I know she's using her life force for her resurrection, but still. I can't exactly grasp how multiple heads are enough as defining features of an Abyssal One. Or perhaps I'm underrating them, but I'd hope there's more to her *coughRoxannecough*

In any case, I think out of the 3 battles going on, Cassy is the main one that isn't really going anywhere, so as many have said before me, maybe they'll get interrupted by something (like Prissy and Riful-thing, and that would tie very very nicely into Rubel+Daae observing Half-Awakens in action.) The thing is, we've been detached from Clare for so long, I really don't think going into the Clare vs Prissy straight after all that's happening now would be a good idea (unless there's another massive Prissy arc after this one )

Europa fight will be standalone, it kinda acts as a statement from the Last Gen Warriors, saying that they aren't that useless too, and I like where it's headed. And I hope Anastasia lives

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Originally Posted by Utsune

The thing with anal--------wait for it ------ysis is that, I do agree they will sometimes come off as anal-pull, this happens in so many shounen manga, but I guess half the time the all-powerful editor of the manga has something to do with it... lol. Reasoning include, "people won't understand it" or "this would take far too long..." but it really does throw it right in your face, especially for manga with good logic foundation at first, it'll be the "huh? how could that have worked?" kinda reaction for the readers who prioritise reasoning and will be difficult to accept fluffy reasoning when it comes to characters winning some fights.

..and this is why i keep saying that for Claymore fans, it's a sucker move to attempt to fit canon into any theory or prediction in this manga. it's almost as if you're only doing it as an intellectual exercise and nothing else, because the authors won't be backing you up on canon when they don't even draw on their own canon to begin with anymore. and this might be a general phenomenon across most mangas, but, i find Claymore has only abandoned its canon far worse since the ZAO plot.

that said, before the ZAO and everything after it, i could easily accept 'fluffy reasoning' back when Yagi was the only writer, and he sometimes wanted to show the readers emotion/character development >>> logic/power levels. i saw nothing wrong with that occasionally back in the good old days.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Originally Posted by fluorideconspiracy

..and this is why i keep saying that for Claymore fans, it's a sucker move to attempt to fit canon into any theory or prediction in this manga. it's almost as if you're only doing it as an intellectual exercise and nothing else, because the authors won't be backing you up on canon when they don't even draw on their own canon to begin with anymore. and this might be a general phenomenon across most mangas, but, i find Claymore has only abandoned its canon far worse since the ZAO plot.

that said, before the ZAO and everything after it, i could easily accept 'fluffy reasoning' back when Yagi was the only writer, and he sometimes wanted to show the readers emotion/character development >>> logic/power levels. i saw nothing wrong with that occasionally back in the good old days.

That's one reason I'm scared he might just put it to an end like this, since I'm one of the ones who want to see what's happening on the the Mainland, but going on now are battles that somewhat resemble the storm before a final showdown. At the moment (and hopefully we'll get to see soon in the coming chapters) all the connection with Mainland that we have is Rubel, and I'm interested to see the reason Yagi has kept him alive, a small glimmer of hope that the manga goes on beyond these fights (which some of you may call "dragged out.") If that does happen, then I can confidently say canon is a success, rather than just sweeping things under the rug and left as they are. Also, if the Riful-thing isn't an occurrence just because Yagi needs to stall Priscilla (i.e. there's a strong reasoning for her appearance, likely repeatable with other characters) then you've got to give him credit for canon in a sense, too.

From all that I can see, the most outstanding controversy, possibly canon-breaking (if we don't count Hysteria,) is labelling Europa "Abyssal One." Although I don't think she's AO level either, there're very strong implications within the dialogues. To be fair, I think it is kind of a difficult decision for Yagi as well, because of the presence of Galatea lol. Let me explain. Galatea can just about hold her own for a long while against former No.3 (male) Dauf seven years ago. Seven years later, Galatea is blind but improves in other aspects significantly (namely youki sensing.) She can hold her own just fine against former No.2 Agatha (even in a city full of bystanders) if it isn't for Miata going berserk. Basically saying, if Europa is anything less than No.1, there is hardly any problem at all for Galatea and a bunch of somewhat capable warriors (Dietrich, Anastasia.)

Now, Europa is estimated to be former No.3-No.5, but really now they aren't that different. (Although I don't think there's a significant difference between No.2 and No.3 either, I'm intrigued to see it is a non-No.2 by name going rogue. In which case, I'm hopeful to see No.2 Octavia have a more important role in the future, if you get what I'm trying to say.) Since we need something more powerful than a mere No.2 AB (thanks to Galatea's presence) and simply turning a No.3 into AO-level isn't enough, why not give her a strange ability to hide her youki, stay alive even when decapitated, all for the sake of making her come off as an AB with a lot of hidden strength? (incidentally satisfying the fact she's hiding her pseudo-AO status.) This is my impression of the mindset behind-the-scene.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Just a small thing to think about, what if she uses the same masking ability as Riful, but this time she is better than Riful is hiding her true powers.. Just think of that for a moment, because we have seen Renee getting fooled by Priscilla and she was the Eye at that time and I guess she was no less than Galatea 7 years ago, and even her got fooled. I'm not saying she is fooling Galatea, but saying maybe what Galatea said is like that she is actually measuring her outer layer but her true powers are even higher than that and what she referred when she said 3-5.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Priscilla it a special case at hiding yoki /teresa was unable to sense her /Galatea was unable to sense her too Remember what's Clarice said to Sid it there have been someone who may show up a couple of years at the Holly city with means 2 or more years, an now this that Sid and his friend gack or wherever her name is said (Raki show up in the Holly city a year ago with a small child meaning Galatea was already at the Holly city but she never sense Priscilla power although she was able to sense a warrior with suppressed pills anyone can cheque those charters and see that Galatea it no a perfect flawless sensor.
mayor proof she never sense the merging power of the destroyer or the three Resurrected corpses or casandra approaches the Holly city Galatea was even unable to believe the existence of someone stronger than abisal even went Helen and Deneve told her . And there are more specific proof but I leave it at that.

Personally I believe Priscilla vs riful doll battle it's over now that Priscilla it no distracted anymore because of the fight she will sense again the feign essence and arrived to clare location and kicking Cassandra ass , after all ghost and awakenings are powerless against Cassandra but Priscilla it's another history.

What bother me it the Reason that powers levels are meaningless before an the good old days a claymore with equally power to one awakening being survival was close to cero now we have weaklings surviving impossible enemies and stopping there attacks like nothing wen before attenting such thing was like a mere human trying to stop train head on resultin Dismemberment now we're having only happy ending ever after.

Re: Claymore 141 Discussion / 142 Predictions

Originally Posted by serpico

Priscilla it a special case at hiding yoki /teresa was unable to sense her /Galatea was unable to sense her too Remember what's Clarice said to Sid it there have been someone who may show up a couple of years at the Holly city with means 2 or more years, an now this that Sid and his friend gack or wherever her name is said (Raki show up in the Holly city a year ago with a small child meaning Galatea was already at the Holly city but she never sense Priscilla power although she was able to sense a warrior with suppressed pills anyone can cheque those charters and see that Galatea it no a perfect flawless sensor.
mayor proof she never sense the merging power of the destroyer or the three Resurrected corpses or casandra approaches the Holly city Galatea was even unable to believe the existence of someone stronger than abisal even went Helen and Deneve told her . And there are more specific proof but I leave it at that.

Personally I believe Priscilla vs riful doll battle it's over now that Priscilla it no distracted anymore because of the fight she will sense again the feign essence and arrived to clare location and kicking Cassandra ass , after all ghost and awakenings are powerless against Cassandra but Priscilla it's another history.

What bother me it the Reason that powers levels are meaningless before an the good old days a claymore with equally power to one awakening being survival was close to cero now we have weaklings surviving impossible enemies and stopping there attacks like nothing wen before attenting such thing was like a mere human trying to stop train head on resultin Dismemberment now we're having only happy ending ever after.

yeah you believe the priss verses riful fight is over do ya??? haha, i see things going down like this. riful doll looks defeated, priss fights clare. clare gets her but kicked, merges with the destroyer absorbing even more power from riful doll. thus kicking priss down a peg. then dae picks up a new toy and uses priss as a political tool on the main land. haha.

just stating facts, priss is now fighting in ernest. or as far as yagi is concerned that is her skill level currently. we still dont know the casandra/clare battle specs yet. but, that will determine how things flow for clare.