Yeah, the biggest problem with California is that the polities are bigger than the communities. So the 20-million or so that live in the LA/OC/SD region dominate the legislature that also serves Alpine County (population about 1100) even though they are hundreds of miles apart and have totally different concerns. I would say the counties should all secede from the state but you have exactly the same problem in San Bernardino county for example - the people of the city of San Bernardino outnumber the residents of the Mojave Desert/rest of the county, meaning that everyone living in Baker must follow county code set 130+ miles and a whole different climate/culture away.

12-12-2012, 09:39 PM

CrazyCatLady

[QUOTE=fuzzylogic;1030068]CCL: you haven't been doing this long enough, because you still sound all happy and smug about how if you do it just right, everything will work. It won't. Mother Nature is a bitch, and she delights in raining shit upon the parade of people who get all smug and happy and superior. LGD's? Yeah, cool. Except that there is zip guarantee that you have a good one until it goes bad, and even then you've spent another what? $700 was the minimum price I was quoted for a Maremma pup.

Those kids of yours won't always want to help. Animals will get sick in ways you CAN'T help, and always when no-one else is there.

I did it for years. I liked it. I'd probably do it again, if I had sufficiently like-minded people: gods know I've got the skills, if not the desire at the moment. However, I like my AC. I like my 75 degrees in the winter house. And I really, really like not chasing 7 300-lb hogs around the front yard at balls-thirty in the rain because my damn fence charger shorted out.

Oh and making hay? First and foremost, you need rain. And then you don't need rain. The two need to happen in something resembling a predictable order. And your haybine needs to work, and the square baler needs to not jam, and the tractor needs to start.......you are cutting it by hand? Huh? There is a reason that there used to be a market for casual labor. It was needed. There was always something to do.[/QUOTE]

Well, not sure how long is long enough. Been living parts of this for near 43 years now. I will say that we have not gone totally back to the land, as such, but we sure do a lot more than most other people. In my years I have lived in multiple houses heated with wood. Only. Woods stoves to make Thanksgiving dinner when the electric stove craps out again (always on a holiday.) My husband grew up on a farm, and yes, he had those pigs. Electric that goes out with every storm. He put himself through college on the corn and beans he grew.

No, we don't have a baler. We have tractors that my husband knows how to maintain. Which he is teaching the kids and I. We have a hay rake, and a wagon. We go out and after it dries and fork it onto the wagon the old fashion way, then we fork it into the shed. Yes, we have something of a charmed life when it comes to rain. We live in a desert, and if it weren't for the irrigation that we pay for if we use or don't, we wouldn't have the nice pasture that we have. Having lived back east, I do know that rain is an issue - kids made good money when I was young helping to get up the bales.

I guess the fact that we live in this area known for farming, we got our first dog, an Akbash/Akita mix for free, and the second, a Pyre/Maremma for $150. Had I not been afraid that the dog would just go home, I could have gotten another proven adult dog from my neighbor who does rescues. But her dogs see my dogs across the road, I wasn't convinced it would work, so I put out the money. No, we did not get the dogs the exact second we thought we wanted them. We did months of searching on Craig's List and had to travel a couple of hours to get them. Both were puppies, and yes I made a few mistakes with the first as he was the first dog I had. But I sure did a lot better than the people who abandoned or had their dogs taken from them that my neighbor gets. And, we read up on LSGD before we got them so that we had some idea of what to expect.

Yup, animals do get sick. But at least I can look up the most common illnesses ahead of time and have stuff on hand to help them. Even my kids know that - as part of taking their birds to the 4-H fair they have to bring a kit of medicines and ointments in case stuff happens. (Yes, it did, too. The goose tore her toenail off on my daughter's sleeve right before the auction. The bird was dripping blood, she had it all over her white shirt, she managed to hide it. Goose got cauterized later, because the public doesn't want to see blood on the animals at fair. Buyer got a different goose that wasn't limping.) And yes, we have had animals die. Even a vet can't always prevent that.

It is fine that you like your AC. Never said you couldn't. My husband likes AC too - when it is too hot. We just manage to keep it so that is not too hot. Just like I learned from my mother, who learned from her mother...and you get the point. A lot of the stuff we use today like AC and heat, can be done in other ways if people try. You don't want to try, hey, that is fine. Pay more for your electric. For me it comes down to being frugal, and I refuse to pay more.

Yep, some day the kids will move on. Then they won't be around to help. And I won't need as big of a garden as they won't be here to eat it. And my clothes line can be smaller and I will only need to do laundry once a week.

But the OP wanted to know what to do. Lots of people are shooting him down. But if he is so motivated to try, by golly, I will help him out in what ever ways I can. And I will help you out too, if you want. If you live on the west side of the Rockies, search the Yakima WA Craig's List for livestock guard dogs. Also look up the "Giant Nickle" online - both of these were how we got our dogs. Our dogs came from inside or near the Yakima Reservation, within a country block of each other.

No, things are not always rosey. But they are not always doom and gloom either. That is the point I am trying to make. Not all diets fit all people. Some people seem to do okay on high carb. Here, we know we don't. Not everyone can go back to nature, nor do they want to. That is fine. People should do what makes them happy, not shoot others down completely when it doesn't match conventional wisdom.

12-13-2012, 06:57 AM

RitaRose

[QUOTE=Him;1030996]So the 20-million or so that live in the LA/OC/SD region dominate the legislature that also serves Alpine County (population about 1100) even though they are hundreds of miles apart and have totally different concerns.[/QUOTE]

That's how things are in Nevada, too. Clark County (where Vegas is located) has a population of about 2 million. The population of the entire state is less than 3 million, so guess who makes the decisons... the almost completely urban/suburban residents of the greater metropolitan Las Vegas area.

Vegas also covers only 135 square miles of a 110,000 square mile state, so 1/10th of 1% as far as area goes. But it has all of the population, so they control how it works for everyone, even though most have no clue how things work outside the city. Thankfully, Nevada is less invasive as far as personal liberty goes, though we have become more "Californized" as people bailed from the environment there and then just recreated it here. Freedon is a bit scary for some.

I do see a lot of backlash to this trend, though. We have a long history of individualism and distrust of "the system", especially in the outlying areas. And a well-armed populace, if it came down to it.

12-15-2012, 09:08 AM

oxide

Knifegill, your original post was too vague to suggest what actions you want to take, or even if you want to take any actions at all, or if you're just venting against The System. At some point you'll have to crystallize your nebulous dissatisfaction into a list of the specific list of the things that are REALLY bothering you, and a list of action items.

This thread seems to think that your only choices are a life of power lunches and EZpasses and iGadgetry, or a life of digging your own well and hacking the logs for your own cabin. Not true. There are dozens of levels of in-between, and dozens of ways to withdraw from The System gradually. And there are dozens of books for every level.

12-15-2012, 09:53 AM

RitaRose

[QUOTE=oxide;1033583]Knifegill, your original post was too vague to suggest what actions you want to take, or even if you want to take any actions at all, or if you're just venting against The System. At some point you'll have to crystallize your nebulous dissatisfaction into a list of the specific list of the things that are REALLY bothering you, and a list of action items.

This thread seems to think that your only choices are a life of power lunches and EZpasses and iGadgetry, or a life of digging your own well and hacking the logs for your own cabin. Not true. There are dozens of levels of in-between, and dozens of ways to withdraw from The System gradually. And there are dozens of books for every level.[/QUOTE]

Agree. That's what I'm working on right now. I can't escape from the city as yet (The Boyfriend needs a good-sized population to make a living) but that doesn't mean I have to have a corporate job. If I have thing my way, I'll be outdoors and playing with dogs all day. Pay may not be great, but I'm cheap and The Boyfriend is good and sqeaky with money anyway.

12-15-2012, 01:59 PM

zoebird

It's really true.

I mean, I am out of the 'rat race' -- doing work that I love love love. I live in a city. I do not grow my own veggies or hunt or fish or whatever. I live simply and frugally -- which provides a lot of freedom. I define my own schedule (for work and play), and our family gets to be together A LOT more than other families.

It's great. It's definitely not one of these two extremes. I might even look like a 'rat race' life to someone else. But for me, it isn't. :)

12-15-2012, 02:45 PM

fiercehunter

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