It's supposed to be a reward, just like the 2,7k tabard/cloak. The problem is, it's a pretty crappy one. Let's face it, if they want to get away from gear as reward they will have to reward other stuff such as mounts or transmog to make up for it. The same things you get in raids on a regular basis often when just doing normal without much effort.

I've been 2,4k in RBG's last season and I am fairly sure I wont hit 2,7k this season. Yet that's where the only real reward is at. This is a huge problem since unlike in PvE where everyone gets their reward only the top 0,5% of Arena/RBG actually get any kind of substantial reward in the forms of mounts (and even those are Arena exklusive) for example.
Why is it that the tiny number of vanity rewards is pretty much exclusive to the 0,5%? That instead of new titles, we get the exact same each season?

They really should add a new mount each season and just recolor it for the different ratings. Starting at 1,6 up to 2,4k with 400~ rating requirement in between each color for example. It would give players something to strive for and an actual reward for reaching higher ratings that will stay with them even after the season is over.

im all for cosmetic stuff for 2200+ 2400+ ect.but the gear tier 2 weapons should all be free of ratings.the reason i feel this is,is that it allows everyone to get the best pvp gear IF they put the time in and play there toon.

Explain to me how exactly I will profit from my gear being worse than before compared to PvE pieces

Sorry, explain to me how PvE gear will be superior to PvP gear in 5.3 again? Oh, you mean just for World PvP, something nobody but you cares about because it's impossible to balance. That's right.

That what it comes down to, your entire argument, that in the perfect situation a fully geared player with Thunderforge Gear gemmed out for PvP, with a PvP spec and setup to PvP jumps you 1v1 out in the wilderness while you mine ore in Northrend. Yep, in that case you might lose, life is hard sometime though.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 02:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kreeshak

In my opinion PVP progression IS NEEDED. I think I am going to get that bored once in BIS pvp gear that I will stop playing.

Time will tell If I am right or wrong.

But there still is gear progression (at least their will be next season). They're going to up the iLevel next season, so you will still need Conquest/Honor gear. The irony over the (faux) anger over this entire system is for the people who already PvP, it won't actually change much. What it will do is allow new people to play without being globaled or destroyed in a single CC. Not sure why people are so against that.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 02:40 PM ----------

Originally Posted by meathead

low level pvp in wow "like the rest of wow's pvp" has never been balanced.

You aren't seriously comparing the imbalance of low level PvP to lvl 90 PvP are you? Come on, even you can see how ridiculous that is. A healer can crit heal for 3 times their HP, a crit Shield Slam will kill someone 2 times over. Low level PvP is not even in the same league of imbalance that lvl 90 is, and saying it's the same is beyond ridiculous.

Originally Posted by meathead

if your a pvper,then you will still runs bgs to level up,i always did and di the same thing in rift now.but let say a pvper does no pvp at all when hes leveling up,and never leaves sw/org liek you said.well that means hes/shes is running instances right?that mean that player have have a crap ton of justice point they can exchange for honor at 90.that = free pvp gear for never pvping.

Yes, you can exchange Justice in for Honor, but he it's clear by his post that he also PvEs, so he probably changed that Justice in for PvE pieces. This was that persons first attempt at PvP. Also, you don't get that much Justice for leveling in Dungeons, in fact you get 0 JP for most of them, instead you get a random Blue up until Wraith (or could be TBC, can't remember off hand).

"[B]?a player thats just starting to "get" into pvp should not be at the same level as experienced pvpers skill wise or gear wise.if you think other wise,your wrong.

But they're likely not at the same experience level. They both encounter each other, and the more skilled player wins, which is exactly as it should be. That's a step towards decent balance. "lol I'm geared and you arent, pwned noob" is not.

Nearly every other good PvP game on the market realizes this very basic fact and takes it into account... after this long, you'd figure that Blizzard would as well.

Beautiful veins and bloodshot eyes.
"If you are not capable of cruelty, you are absolutely a victim to anyone who is" - J. Peterson

But there still is gear progression (at least their will be next season). They're going to up the iLevel next season, so you will still need Conquest/Honor gear. The irony over the (faux) anger over this entire system is for the people who already PvP, it won't actually change much. What it will do is allow new people to play without being globaled or destroyed in a single CC. Not sure why people are so against that

I'm so tired of the "cap lolrbgs every week/ilvl" based so-called progression. That's not progression? It the same fucking gear with a different prefix.

Sorry, explain to me how PvE gear will be superior to PvP gear in 5.3 again? Oh, you mean just for World PvP, something nobody but you cares about because it's impossible to balance. That's right.

That what it comes down to, your entire argument, that in the perfect situation a fully geared player with Thunderforge Gear gemmed out for PvP, with a PvP spec and setup to PvP jumps you 1v1 out in the wilderness while you mine ore in Northrend. Yep, in that case you might lose, life is hard sometime though.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 02:32 PM ----------

But there still is gear progression (at least their will be next season). They're going to up the iLevel next season, so you will still need Conquest/Honor gear. The irony over the (faux) anger over this entire system is for the people who already PvP, it won't actually change much. What it will do is allow new people to play without being globaled or destroyed in a single CC. Not sure why people are so against that.

---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 02:40 PM ----------

You aren't seriously comparing the imbalance of low level PvP to lvl 90 PvP are you? Come on, even you can see how ridiculous that is. A healer can crit heal for 3 times their HP, a crit Shield Slam will kill someone 2 times over. Low level PvP is not even in the same league of imbalance that lvl 90 is, and saying it's the same is beyond ridiculous.

Yes, you can exchange Justice in for Honor, but he it's clear by his post that he also PvEs, so he probably changed that Justice in for PvE pieces. This was that persons first attempt at PvP. Also, you don't get that much Justice for leveling in Dungeons, in fact you get 0 JP for most of them, instead you get a random Blue up until Wraith (or could be TBC, can't remember off hand).

"Sorry, explain to me how PvE gear will be superior to PvP gear in 5.3 again"

let me say this again ok.ther are 3 froms of pvp in wow,instance =bgs ect, wpvp= like fighting while doing dailys, and dules.pvp gear MIGHT be best for only instance pvp,pve gear will be better for the other 2.that doe snot scream broken to you?o thats right who cares about fighting outside of arenas when your on a pvp server.

"You aren't seriously comparing the imbalance of low level PvP to lvl 90 PvP are you"
no,why are you?are you trying to say wow neglects 90 pvp more the they do low level pvp?or maybe i was just respoding to some1 question?keep trying to spin it.who cares about low level pvp right,what does it matter.who cares about wpvp right?who cares about dules right?aslogn as blizz makes sure 90 arena is balced along with rbgs all is well right?o wait a min,arena is a bad spot atm and fcers are goign to go by by from rbgs soon.looks like alot will miss out on low level pvp,wpvp,duels because you say who ares about them.

Yes, you can exchange Justice in for Honor, but he it's clear by his post that he also PvEs, so he probably changed that Justice in for PvE pieces.
o wait a mintue-so he pves also and wants his pve curreny for pve gear.ok i ge tthat,but what i dont get why does he not want to pvp to get his pvp gear?are the high skilled player in ramdons bgs to hard to kill?or is it to hard to sit afk and a flag/base and get free honor?

I'm so tired of the "cap lolrbgs every week/ilvl" based so-called progression. That's not progression? It the same fucking gear with a different prefix.

Okay, perhaps "progression" was the wrong word, Kreeshak had mentioned that he gets bored once he gets BiS, but that problem exists today and is nothing to do with the 5.3 changes. Could they add some sort of other progression? Sure, I'm all for it, but I just don't think it should be gear related.

But they're likely not at the same experience level. They both encounter each other, and the more skilled player wins, which is exactly as it should be. That's a step towards decent balance. "lol I'm geared and you arent, pwned noob" is not.

Nearly every other good PvP game on the market realizes this very basic fact and takes it into account... after this long, you'd figure that Blizzard would as well.

but your forgetting a more experienced/skill/geared player does not always win.you have to factor in class balanced and op/up ness.should blizz fix that fist or your right that just be dumb to take time and fix class/skills in pvp.ever try to kill a blood dk as an arms warrior during s5 or any season for that matter?that right just avoided them,but what happens if u cant because your protecting a flag.o thats right clas balance is not an issues,its gear.

I honestly am having a very difficult time understanding anything you wrote here. English might not be your first language, but whatever that language is, punctuation, sentence structure and capitalization are. I'll do what I can to try and get through this.

Originally Posted by meathead

"Sorry, explain to me how PvE gear will be superior to PvP gear in 5.3 again"

let me say this again ok.ther are 3 froms of pvp in wow,instance =bgs ect, wpvp= like fighting while doing dailys, and dules.pvp gear MIGHT be best for only instance pvp,pve gear will be better for the other 2.that doe snot scream broken to you?o thats right who cares about fighting outside of arenas when your on a pvp server.

From what I understand you are saying there are three types of PvP:

1) BGs/RBGs and Arena
2) World PvP
3) Duels

And you are saying that the upper echelon PvE gear will be better than PvP gear in 2) and 3). The problem is, you are assigning each one of them equal weighting which is not remotely accurate. Duels are 1v1 which the game isn't balanced around anyway and the outcome of a Duel has no impact on the game other than a learning experience. So losing a duel outside damaging your epeen, means nothing. World PvP is impossible to balance around and therefore isn't even worth discussing in this context.

Your 1) is what Blizzard, and risking getting told I don't speak for the majority, what most people care about. So yes, Duels and World PvP might be rough if a fully decked out player attacks you in PvE gear, but that's how it is today as well, there is no change.

"You aren't seriously comparing the imbalance of low level PvP to lvl 90 PvP are you"
no,why are you?are you trying to say wow neglects 90 pvp more the they do low level pvp?or maybe i was just respoding to some1 question?keep trying to spin it.who cares about low level pvp right,what does it matter.who cares about wpvp right?who cares about dules right?aslogn as blizz makes sure 90 arena is balced along with rbgs all is well right?o wait a min,arena is a bad spot atm and fcers are goign to go by by from rbgs soon.looks like alot will miss out on low level pvp,wpvp,duels because you say who ares about them.

Here I'm lost. Clearly you ignored what I wrote or don't understand it. I'll summarize. You told us about how you leveld in TBC and did BGs, I said "well, low level BGs are ridiculously imbalance now, so they're not all that much fun for new players", to which you said "low level like the rest of wow PvP is unbalanced".

90 PvP is way more balanced than low level PvP is (or probably ever will be). You remembering fondly of your days back in TBC doesn't change that.

Yes, you can exchange Justice in for Honor, but he it's clear by his post that he also PvEs, so he probably changed that Justice in for PvE pieces.
o wait a mintue-so he pves also and wants his pve curreny for pve gear.ok i ge tthat,but what i dont get why does he not want to pvp to get his pvp gear?are the high skilled player in ramdons bgs to hard to kill?or is it to hard to sit afk and a flag/base and get free honor?

PvP has a barrier to entry that is just to high in the eyes of the developers. So in their eyes, they'd rather a player be able to enter a BG and not be completely useless the first time they enter, instead they'd going to make them just mostly useless in a hope that the player enjoys it enough to do some more.

FWIW, PvE has a much higher barrier to entry, but they'e started fixing that as well with things like Raid Finder and removing Rep requirements on Valor gear back in 5.0.4

Blizzard is simply trying to make PvP more inclusive because its not as popular as PvE. This is the easy way to do this, it's not rocket science. Blizzard does this all the time in this game. They try and make unpopular choices more popular by making them more appealing (look at the Monk class in 5.2 for a great example of this).

but your forgetting a more experienced/skill/geared player does not always win.you have to factor in class balanced and op/up ness.should blizz fix that fist or your right that just be dumb to take time and fix class/skills in pvp.ever try to kill a blood dk as an arms warrior during s5 or any season for that matter?that right just avoided them,but what happens if u cant because your protecting a flag.o thats right clas balance is not an issues,its gear.

S5 is over long over and none of that shit really matters now. Everyone didn't have trouble with dks in s5, they where strong, but they could be killed. The point and focus should be on todays PvP and the up-coming patch. As far as I can tell we will have a few pve items that are going to be stronger then some of the pvp. Even in instanced pvp some pve items will shine. It's really not a big deal they will either get fixed or everyone will get them. In wpvp you wont see very many ppl in heroic loot running around and the fun thing is: If they are in that 541 or whatever loot they most likely will not be better then you, providing you are a decent player. If you are some 1400s scrub you may lose to that pve geared player, but honestly at this point is it the gear causing you to lose or some heroic raider that more then likely understands how to dps? With the pvp power new and the slight healing nerf things are coming into line a little better, ppl are still getting bursted hard I really hope they fix that. I'm almost sure they blizzard with all the time and effort they put into fucking around with pvp gear will not allow socketed pve items pull a head of pvp items.

Have you guys played PvP on ptr right now? Hybrid duels are goind like forever... it`s just fucked up. Damage is so miniscule and heal is going to be so ridiculous, even with 45% heal reduce... dont even notice it

Hunters use to have a dead zone. So if you stuck to one you could stop all his damage. People casted more as well which means you could stop their damage. Now everyone just spam instants.

You're right except for 2 things.

1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

I honestly am having a very difficult time understanding anything you wrote here. English might not be your first language, but whatever that language is, punctuation, sentence structure and capitalization are. I'll do what I can to try and get through this.

From what I understand you are saying there are three types of PvP:

1) BGs/RBGs and Arena
2) World PvP
3) Duels

And you are saying that the upper echelon PvE gear will be better than PvP gear in 2) and 3). The problem is, you are assigning each one of them equal weighting which is not remotely accurate. Duels are 1v1 which the game isn't balanced around anyway and the outcome of a Duel has no impact on the game other than a learning experience. So losing a duel outside damaging your epeen, means nothing. World PvP is impossible to balance around and therefore isn't even worth discussing in this context.

Your 1) is what Blizzard, and risking getting told I don't speak for the majority, what most people care about. So yes, Duels and World PvP might be rough if a fully decked out player attacks you in PvE gear, but that's how it is today as well, there is no change.

Here I'm lost. Clearly you ignored what I wrote or don't understand it. I'll summarize. You told us about how you leveld in TBC and did BGs, I said "well, low level BGs are ridiculously imbalance now, so they're not all that much fun for new players", to which you said "low level like the rest of wow PvP is unbalanced".

90 PvP is way more balanced than low level PvP is (or probably ever will be). You remembering fondly of your days back in TBC doesn't change that.

PvP has a barrier to entry that is just to high in the eyes of the developers. So in their eyes, they'd rather a player be able to enter a BG and not be completely useless the first time they enter, instead they'd going to make them just mostly useless in a hope that the player enjoys it enough to do some more.

FWIW, PvE has a much higher barrier to entry, but they'e started fixing that as well with things like Raid Finder and removing Rep requirements on Valor gear back in 5.0.4

Blizzard is simply trying to make PvP more inclusive because its not as popular as PvE. This is the easy way to do this, it's not rocket science. Blizzard does this all the time in this game. They try and make unpopular choices more popular by making them more appealing (look at the Monk class in 5.2 for a great example of this).

cut the shit and stop with the wise cracks ok kido?if you think im going to spend time and edit or even re read my post your nuts.i typed that thing up as fast as i could because i could care less if i miss spell a work or whatever.just keep on drinking the cool-aid-wows pvp is the best it ever been.no class os op'ed or un'ed,its like you said pvp gear is so hard to get.wow need more pvers to start pvping."know why?because wow is losing pvpers "

also i said i leveled from 80-85 in bgs in CATA,not BC.i also did the same in mop and for the most part wrath.two out of three types of pvp,pve gera will be better.go read the blues post,they more or less say just that.
"PvP has a barrier to entry that is just to high in the eyes of the developers"
thats a load of shit-you want me to keep telling you how easy it is to get honor gear?you might not be on a pvper sever or like to pvp,but some of us are and do.there should never be that big of a gap difference as there will be "pvp and pve gear".

"PvE has a much higher barrier to entry, but they'e started fixing that as well with things like Raid Finder and removing Rep requirements on Valor gear back in 5.0.4"

that called catering to the bads-i guess all the top pvers run raid finder all day right?wow has been put on easy mode and real issues that need to be fixed have been left untouched.

"Blizzard is simply trying to make PvP more inclusive because its not as popular as PvE"
this is also a load of shit.when the last time blizz had a tournament for pve?wow makes its game as an e-spot.blizz sell wow and a pvp game,you know the hole horde vs ally thing?pvp servers? also more people par take in pvp in wow then they do in pve.i can sit there and run bgs all day/night long.av is 40 vs 40 and they run not stop every day all day.but you can only raid with max of 25 once a week right?no question more people pvp then they do pve.

Okay, perhaps "progression" was the wrong word, Kreeshak had mentioned that he gets bored once he gets BiS, but that problem exists today and is nothing to do with the 5.3 changes. Could they add some sort of other progression? Sure, I'm all for it, but I just don't think it should be gear related.

the problem doesn't exist if you can get elite gear and upgrade it

Originally Posted by rhorle

A Daily quest is about as much effort as organizing 20 people.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

S5 is over long over and none of that shit really matters now. Everyone didn't have trouble with dks in s5, they where strong, but they could be killed. The point and focus should be on todays PvP and the up-coming patch. As far as I can tell we will have a few pve items that are going to be stronger then some of the pvp. Even in instanced pvp some pve items will shine. It's really not a big deal they will either get fixed or everyone will get them. In wpvp you wont see very many ppl in heroic loot running around and the fun thing is: If they are in that 541 or whatever loot they most likely will not be better then you, providing you are a decent player. If you are some 1400s scrub you may lose to that pve geared player, but honestly at this point is it the gear causing you to lose or some heroic raider that more then likely understands how to dps? With the pvp power new and the slight healing nerf things are coming into line a little better, ppl are still getting bursted hard I really hope they fix that. I'm almost sure they blizzard with all the time and effort they put into fucking around with pvp gear will not allow socketed pve items pull a head of pvp items.

lmfao-yeah dks were not "that" op'ed in s5-the most unbalanced pvp season there has ever been.your right no class is op'ed now every one is even.your right no heroic geared pvers go out in the world to kill world raid bosses,none at all.you might want to change your server if you "dont see" herioc geared players on your realm.

cut the shit and stop with the wise cracks ok kido?if you think im going to spend time and edit or even re read my post your nuts.i typed that thing up as fast as i could because i could care less if i miss spell a work or whatever.

I think stuff like this pretty much invalidates anything you have to say.

"Blizzard is simply trying to make PvP more inclusive because its not as popular as PvE"
this is also a load of shit.when the last time blizz had a tournament for pve?wow makes its game as an e-spot.blizz sell wow and a pvp game,you know the hole horde vs ally thing?pvp servers? also more people par take in pvp in wow then they do in pve.i can sit there and run bgs all day/night long.av is 40 vs 40 and they run not stop every day all day.but you can only raid with max of 25 once a week right?no question more people pvp then they do pve.

As does stuff like this.---------- Post added 2013-05-01 at 08:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kreeshak

the problem doesn't exist if you can get elite gear and upgrade it

So how is upgrading your gear any different than getting BiS now? It's the same thing, just extended over more weeks. Personally I do think they need to add better rewards for top players to make people want to keep at it, but I'm not really sure making people grind to upgrade the same gear they already bought Malevolent then Tyranical is the way to do it.

So how is upgrading your gear any different than getting BiS now? It's the same thing, just extended over more weeks. Personally I do think they need to add better rewards for top players to make people want to keep at it, but I'm not really sure making people grind to upgrade the same gear they already bought Malevolent then Tyranical is the way to do it.

I guess the only difference is getting BIS in 6-10 weeks versus say 30 weeks.
I already feel slightly bored having (almost) BIS while I remember I was more excited having a goal, a reward to play for during the previous season.

Originally Posted by rhorle

A Daily quest is about as much effort as organizing 20 people.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

Sorry, explain to me how PvE gear will be superior to PvP gear in 5.3 again? Oh, you mean just for World PvP, something nobody but you cares about because it's impossible to balance. That's right.

That what it comes down to, your entire argument, that in the perfect situation a fully geared player with Thunderforge Gear gemmed out for PvP, with a PvP spec and setup to PvP jumps you 1v1 out in the wilderness while you mine ore in Northrend. Yep, in that case you might lose, life is hard sometime though.

You know, editing the name of someone in order to insult them is low, very low. I was for a moment tempted to do the same but instead I'm just going to laugh at you trying to claim the moral high ground in any further discussion. What you are doing is pretty pathethic.

First of all you should learn to actually read what people are writing, apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong point. The sentence "worse than before before compared to" does not say it will be worse in general in instanced PvP. Merely that it slowly but surely changes in unfavor of PvP gear and that is a fact. Or do you want to argue the point that PvE gear will gain 25% resilience and PvP gear will lose about 1/3 of it's PvP power? Both of these are changes in favor of PvE gear.
And yes for SOME pieces especially offset or to take some desirable set bonuses PvE gear will be at the very least equal or better. The vast majority of PvP power is coming from the weapon alone anyway, the less will be quite insignificant compared to gaining a set bonus for example.

The second part of your argument is a pretty pathethic attempt to ridicule my post, especially the part about "Northrend" acting as if it was outdated and to show just how "unlikely" it will be. Gaining the 522 items isn't hard, you can buy those per valor points and coming 5.3 even those will be ilevel 530 compared to ilevel 496 sets.
It's a 34 ilevel difference we're looking at here, that's a huge difference in brute strenght and a hell of a lot of difference in stats. Hell someone in that gear is going to have around 80-100k HP more alone and that is now with about the same resilience a PvP player has.

And World PvP does happen, actually quite often. I so far couldn't complete the quests on the Isle of Thunder on my server once without being attacked at least once and very often with me attacking other players several times over.

It's about about "you might lose" or "life is tough" (what kind of insane troll response is this anyway?) but about PvE gear being inherently better for a PVP ACTIVITY and that simply should not be the case. Ever.

Originally Posted by Siddown

I think stuff like this pretty much invalidates anything you have to say.

I'm not quite sure why a PvE troll like you thinks he has any kind of right to call ANYONE out on anything. Let's just sum up your behavior in this thread alone:

1. You're editing people's names in quotes to ridicule and aggravate them.
2. You're constantly trying to infuriate people instead of actualy arguing the points they bring up "life's tough".
3. You so far have neither proven nor backed up any of the things you claimed, when someone disputed your points or criticized them you instead choose to just forget about them altogether.
4. Your only goal in this thread seems to be to make people angry, nothing else whatsoever.

Have you guys played PvP on ptr right now? Hybrid duels are goind like forever... it`s just fucked up. Damage is so miniscule and heal is going to be so ridiculous, even with 45% heal reduce... dont even notice it

I guess the only difference is getting BIS in 6-10 weeks versus say 30 weeks.
I already feel slightly bored having (almost) BIS while I remember I was more excited having a goal, a reward to play for during the previous season.

Since when was getting gear doing something as easy as capping 2v2 and lolrbgs interesting? I get bored and annoyed everytime I have to replace a piece of gear and having to gear up for 30 weeks sounds like the most boring shit ever. It doesn't take any effort whatsoever, it just makes you waste loads of time. There's also no prestige to any of it since every pve hero got his high warlord from lolrbgs and can get his free t2/tabard.

I think wotlk rating progression was actually decent. Bads complained they couldn't get gear, but getting 1800 in 2v2 was so easy that even bads could get it if they tried hard enough and it kept them motivated.

Since when was getting gear doing something as easy as capping 2v2 and lolrbgs interesting? I get bored and annoyed everytime I have to replace a piece of gear and having to gear up for 30 weeks sounds like the most boring shit ever. It doesn't take any effort whatsoever, it just makes you waste loads of time. There's also no prestige to any of it since every pve hero got his high warlord from lolrbgs and can get his free t2/tabard.

I think wotlk rating progression was actually decent. Bads complained they couldn't get gear, but getting 1800 in 2v2 was so easy that even bads could get it if they tried hard enough and it kept them motivated.

The reward was that if you had higher rating you would get more cap and it would have mattered.
With this system you can cap at 1300 rating and have the very same gear than someone who would cap at 2200 rating.
And the million dollar question is why would anyone bother to get rating for?

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 07:20 AM ----------

It doesn't take any effort whatsoever

It does take effort to raise your cap so you progress fast.

Originally Posted by rhorle

A Daily quest is about as much effort as organizing 20 people.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.