Logos 7https://community.logos.com/forums/141.aspxenCommunityServer 2008.5 SP2 (Debug Build: 40407.4157)Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995575.aspx141Logos 72018-09-18T23:30:54Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995575Hamilton Ramos0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995575.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995575https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995575.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995575<p>Dr. Breshears of Western Seminary in an online theology primer lecture talked about God:</p>
<p></p>
<p>He is personal, involved, wanting a relation with us, and He has a Name.</p>
<p>In his view, God, Theos, etc. puts some distance between us.</p>
<p>Abba was used by Jesus and encouraged us to do the same.</p>
<p>But he personally thinks God&#39;s Name is Yahweh, although we are not sure how to pronounce it.</p>
<p></p>
<p>He encouraged us to think about the way we pray, and the Name or term we use.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I used to worry about the name, fully cognizant that the right one is Yahweh, although we probably do not know how to pronounce it right.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Then in the NT the Name above every other name became: Yahshua Messiah or something in that line.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I did notice that the Apostles had no problem calling the incarnated Son: Iesous Cristos. So I guess is fine to use Jesus Christ.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Analyzing the way I pray I usually mention Dios (Spanish equivalent to God) and then add in Jesus Christ at the end.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Now that Dr. Breshears called our attention, I would like to know if you know of a resource that deals with the topic, and your personal opinion on the right way to call / mention God in prayer.</p>
<p></p>
<p>In a quick search I found:</p>
<p></p>
<p>&quot;But after you are satisfied, give thanks thus: &ldquo;We give thanks to you, O holy Father, for your holy name, which you caused to dwell in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality that you made known to us through Jesus your child. To you be glory forever. You, Lord Almighty, made all things for your name&rsquo;s sake, and gave food and drink to humans for their enjoyment, that they might give thanks to you, but you have blessed us with spiritual food and drink and eternal light through your child.&quot;</p>
<p><span>&nbsp;McGowan, A. B. (2014). <a href="https://ref.ly/logosres/ncntchrstnwrshp?ref=Page.p+37&amp;off=845&amp;ctx=prayer+is+provided:%0a~But+after+you+are+sa"><i>Ancient Christian Worship: Early Church Practices in Social, Historical, and Theological Perspective</i></a> (p. 37). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic.</span></p>
<p><span>&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span>Is interesting that they used Father and Jesus in Eucharistic prayers.</span></p>
<p><span></span></p>
<p><span>Thanks for sharing your mind in this topic ahead of time.</span></p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995598.aspx141Logos 72018-09-19T02:33:27Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995598MJ. Smith0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995598.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995598https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995598.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995598<p>Spangler, Ann. Praying the Names of Jesus: A Daily Guide. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2009.</p>
<p>Vander Meulen, Elizabeth L., and Barbara D. Malda. His Names Are Wonderful: Getting to Know God through His Hebrew Names. Baltimore, MD: Messianic Jewish Publishers, 2005.</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995614.aspx141Logos 72018-09-19T04:45:28Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995614Keith Pang0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995614.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995614https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995614.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995614<p>What matters the most is the heart/motive of prayer&nbsp;</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995615.aspx141Logos 72018-09-19T04:46:34Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995615Keith Pang0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995615.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995615https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995615.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995615<p>God&rsquo;s name is not some magical formula. See Matthew 6:5-15</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995655.aspx141Logos 72018-09-19T13:05:50Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995655Hamilton Ramos0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995655.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995655https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995655.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995655<p>Thank you MJ.</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995656.aspx141Logos 72018-09-19T13:12:39Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995656Hamilton Ramos0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995656.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995656https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995656.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995656<p>Hi Keith:</p>
<p>Agree, but as you see out of respect I mention your very name: Keith. &nbsp;I do not say &quot;right dude&quot; nor &quot;correct Mr. Pang&quot;, because that would be disrespectful in the former, and impersonal in the latter.</p>
<p>And that is the point I think Dr. Breshears is trying to make, beside respect, the mark of personal relation is calling someone by first name.</p>
<p>So the argument Dr. Breshears is that we should call our Divine Father by His name: Yahweh.</p>
<p>Some argue that Yahshua (meaning God saves) is the NT Name of God.</p>
<p>In my view Dr. Breshears has a point.&nbsp;</p>
<p></p>
<p>You are correct that motives / intentions are very important, but so is proper protocol, we are addressing the very creator of all that exists.</p>
<p>Peace and grace.</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995669.aspx141Logos 72018-09-19T15:17:44Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995669Kevin0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995669.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995669https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995669.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995669<p><a href="https://community.logos.com:443/forums/t/10072.aspx" title="https://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx">https://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx</a></p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995718.aspx141Logos 72018-09-19T20:27:52Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995718Keith Pang0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995718.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995718https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995718.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995718<p>True I agree with you. Was not attacking what you were posting, I was just stating what matters the most is the heart and intent of prayer. I believe you mentioned the names we can address God by, which is Abba, Yahweh, Yeshua, Jesus, etc.&nbsp;</p>
<p></p>
<p>Shalom.</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995791.aspx141Logos 72018-09-20T07:43:51Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995791Rosie Perera0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995791.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995791https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995791.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995791<p>You might want to check out&nbsp;<a href="https://ebooks.faithlife.com/products/43679/praying-through-the-names-of-god"><em>Praying Through the Names of God</em></a>.</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995793.aspx141Logos 72018-09-20T09:29:26Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995793Thomas Pape0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995793.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995793https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995793.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995793<p><a href="https://www.logos.com/product/3904/the-messianic-bible-study-collection">https://www.logos.com/product/3904/the-messianic-bible-study-collection</a></p>
<p><span id="result_box" lang="en"><span>includes 9 lectures on prayer - from the Jewish Messianic point of view - with why why</span></span></p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995803.aspx141Logos 72018-09-20T12:59:21Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995803Hamilton Ramos0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995803.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995803https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995803.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995803<p>Thank you seeHisFace for the link:</p>
<p>1) Dr. Breshears was introduced to me by Faithlife, thus I think is within acceptable limits to comment on something I have not though about and came to the limelight thanks to him.</p>
<p>2) Without getting into a theological discussion, I wonder why some groups say Yahshua and others say Yeshua as the Name of God in the NT. (actually saying Yahweh saves).</p>
<p>3) I was wondering if there is a particular resource in L7 that explains the above variants.</p>
<p>4) if any of the above is considered a violation of guidelines, I apologize.</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995805.aspx141Logos 72018-09-20T13:06:52Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995805Hamilton Ramos0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995805.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995805https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995805.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995805<p>Thank you Rosie.</p>
<p>I know you are a very knowledgeable person, I do understand there are different names that describe different divine qualities of God.</p>
<p>My question to you: In your understanding, The Name above every other name in the NT refers to the ultimate? Yahshua (Yahweh saves), so my doubt now is if it suffices to pray in Jesus (western equivalent of Yahshua) Christ name, or if we should continue to pray:</p>
<p>Divine Father, thank you for your grace, mercy and love, help us get to your side even stumbling in the holiness highway (like fools that we are), with the help of the Holy Spirit, for your Glory, and in Jesus Christ name amen.</p>
<p>The objective is trying to be respectful, reverent and personal.</p>
<p>If you know of a resource that goes into this in particular (I will check the one you recommended), please let me know.</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995806.aspx141Logos 72018-09-20T13:08:28Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995806Hamilton Ramos0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995806.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995806https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995806.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995806<p>Thank you Thomas:</p>
<p>I do have the resource, I do not understand why some Messianics use Jehovah, when seems Yahweh more correct (mentioned by Dr. Breshears too).</p>Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995814.aspx141Logos 72018-09-20T13:44:30Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995814Thomas Pape0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995814.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995814https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995814.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995814
<pre class="tw-data-text tw-ta tw-text-small" dir="ltr"><span lang="en">I suspect that in eternity we will be surprised that the old Christians were right ;-)</span><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></pre>
<p class="lang-en">Please &quot;excuse me&quot;, but Arnold Fuchtenbaum - a Jew who has found to Christ (as well as the unrevised Elberfelder 1905) uses this name as the name of God and he also explained in a seminar why:</p>
<p class="lang-en">Although we do not know exactly how the name was pronounced earlier due to the writing style of the Jews (the Jews themselves do not pronounce it at all), we know that most of the Bible&#39;s names that have a &quot;je&quot; in it are of derived from the name of God, such as Jesus, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jeshua- just to name a few</p>
<p class="lang-en">.</p>
<pre class="tw-data-text tw-ta tw-text-small" id="tw-target-text" dir="ltr"><span lang="en">Arnold Fruchtenbaum referred to his Bible in his answer and therefore always pronounced it as Jehovah </span></pre>
<pre class="tw-data-text tw-ta tw-text-small" dir="ltr"><span lang="en">- every translator into German said it differently ...</span></pre>
Re: Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995819.aspx141Logos 72018-09-20T14:25:40Z9a0036cf-ae03-4c9d-9481-8dd598b774b8:995819Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)0https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995819.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995819https://community.logos.com/forums/thread/995819.aspxhttps://community.logos.com/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=141&PostID=995819<p>Search</p>
<p><a href="https://ref.ly/logos4/Search?kind=BasicSearch&amp;q=(%5bfield+heading%2clargetext%5d+Jehovah)+WITHIN+11+WORDS+Adonai&amp;match=stem&amp;in=raw%3aCollection%7cCollectionName%3dCollectionId%253dcdbc95b2-f626-45b3-b023-0c5dba4bff4f%257cTitle%253dEnglish%252520Library%252520without%252520Bibles"><strong>([field heading,largetext] Jehovah) WITHIN 11 WORDS Adonai</strong></a></p>
<p>results included&nbsp;<a href="https://www.logos.com/product/8919/the-book-of-genesis-made-easy">The Book of&nbsp;Genesis&nbsp;Made&nbsp;Easy</a>&nbsp;</p>
<p class="p1"><b>WHAT ABOUT &ldquo;JEHOVAH&rdquo; AND &ldquo;YAHWEH&rdquo;?</b></p>
<p class="p2">The word &ldquo;Jehovah&rdquo; does not appear in Hebrew. The personal name for God, which God revealed to Moses is &ldquo;Yahweh&rdquo;. It means, &ldquo;The One who is always present&rdquo;. This word was so holy that the Israelites never said it aloud. To remind them, they wrote the consonants YHWH (for Yahweh), and the vowels of Adonai, which means &ldquo;Lord&rdquo;. When they spoke of God they said, &ldquo;Adonai&rdquo;, meaning Lord.</p>
<p class="p3"><b>YHWH</b> + <b>Adonai</b> = <b>Jehovah</b></p>
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<p class="p4">&bull;<span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>From &ldquo;YHWH&rdquo; translators took the letter Y, (which was often read as &ldquo;J&rsquo;),</p>
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<p class="p6"><b>J</b></p>
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<p class="p4">&bull;<span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>with the first vowel of Adonai (which was often read as &ldquo;e&rdquo;).</p>
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<p class="p6"><b>E</b></p>
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<p class="p4">&bull;<span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>They took the second consonant from &ldquo;YHWH&rdquo;, &ldquo;H&rdquo;,</p>
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<p class="p6"><b>H</b></p>
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<p class="p4">&bull;<span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>with the second vowel from Adonai, &ldquo;O&rdquo;.</p>
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<p class="p6"><b>O</b></p>
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<p class="p4">&bull;<span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>They took the third consonant from &ldquo;YHWH&rdquo;, &ldquo;W&rdquo;, (often read as &ldquo;V&rdquo;),</p>
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<p class="p6"><b>V</b></p>
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<p class="p4">&bull;<span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>with the third vowel from Adonai, &ldquo;a.&rdquo;</p>
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<p class="p6"><b>A</b></p>
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<p class="p4">&bull;<span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>Finally, they took the last consonant from &ldquo;YHWH&rdquo; &ldquo;H.&rdquo;</p>
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<p class="p6"><b>H</b></p>
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<p class="p2">So the resulting hybrid word is &ldquo;Jehovah.&rdquo; Some translations now use Yahweh. Others translations insert Lord, using small capitals.</p>
<p class="p8"></p>
<p class="p9"><span class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Water, Mark. 2000. <a href="https://ref.ly/logosres/bkgenmez?ref=Page.p+63&amp;off=397"><span class="s1"><i>The Book of Genesis Made Easy</i></span></a>. (The Made Easy Series). Alresford, Hampshire: John Hunt Publishers Ltd.</p>
<p class="p9"><blockquote><div><img src="https://community.logos.com/Themes/logoswhite/images/icon-quote.gif"> <strong>Hamilton Ramos:</strong></div><div></p>
<p>Analyzing the way I pray I usually mention Dios (Spanish equivalent to God) and then add in Jesus Christ at the end.</p>
<p class="p9"></div><div style="clear:both;"></div></blockquote></p>
<p class="p9">Personal quirk is closing prayer in holy name of Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus Christ</p>
<p class="p9">Similar approach for opening prayer: Abba, Father, Daddy</p>
<p class="p9">Keep Smiling <img src="https://community.logos.com:443/emoticons/emotion-1.gif" alt="Smile" /></p>