kendelrio:blueviking: Genevieve Marie: Weaver95: Genevieve Marie: For all the inevitable Men's Rights "ZOMG FALSE RAPE" derp that will inevitably arise here: She has not named her rapist publicly. She is not harassing him personally. She is merely speaking about her rape along with two other women whose rapes were ignored by the school in support of an administrator who was fired for speaking out against the way the school treats rape victims.

which even if you don't believe her story means you STILL have to support her right to speak up about how the school handled her situation.

Yup. But isn't it fascinating how rape threads always reveal ingrained misogyny? People IMMEDIATELY question the victim, her story, how she handled it and the way she's speaking without bothering to find the facts. The first instinct for some is always to white night an accused rapist.

I don't think I will ever get to a place where I'm desensitized enough to not be creeped the hell out by that.

Amen...I sincerely doubt those that go to the excuse of "well, if she didn't report it to the cops, obviously, it's a fake charge". Such a report and investigation is unpleasant, to say the very farkin' least, not to mention the cycle of blame, stigma and invasion that victim has to endure through a trial, if it ever makes it that far and department actually handles the charge correctly. I can't blame a victim for not going to the cops...it just reopens the wound over and over again.

But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Far easier...ever gone through a SANE exam after you've been abused and assaulted? Had to wait out months and months in an investigation with the police who question your every word, every action, reminding you that, heaven forbid you're lying, you'll be charged with a crime? The stigma from friends, family, and acquaintances, since certain police investigations and court records can become public knowledge? The doubt that comes with such scrutiny and the shame, even though is isn't a victim's fault, becomes crushing at times. Does this happen every time? No...but, if it's a situation of your word against his and there's no clear physical evidence at the time to indicate otherwise or he's a "respected" individual...far more often than you'd think.

Honor Court is far easier. It's no criminal charge, but, maybe she was of the mindset that she merely wanted to move on, and his harassment of her wasn't allowing that, and the university had a chance to step in and at least remove him, somewhat, from her life.

Dokushin:Big Dave: In this country we talk about how women can avoid rape, or what she should do about a pregnancy that results from rape, but we do not tell our men not to rape.

I have had women friends show me whistles, steak knives, and other implements they carry with them at all times to hopefully ward off a rapist. I have sat in a room of 25 other college football players and heard them all agree that, if they were raping a girl anyway, they may as well sodomize her while they were at it. And I have seen teenage girls dragged through the mud by the media when they dare go public against their accusers.

You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape." Just like no one had to tell me not to murder. Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape. There are criminals among us. We need to do more to look after their mental health and to perhaps cure them of the diseases that destroy their ability to reason. But men are not criminals, and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for others. All men are not potential rapists, and they don't deserve to be treated like they are.

doglover:Genevieve Marie: And yet somehow, I never see "Well what if they're lying" brought up in home invasion stories.

Maybe it's because people get all stupid and emotional about sex crimes.

A man knocks over a few houses in a Mickey Mouse mask, gets busted, finds Jesus, and soon he gets a book deal for being the Rodent Robber and a lucrative career as a home security expert. People love that shiat.

Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.

Except that's not the case at all and never has been. We live in a shiatty culture: victims whose rapes don't match the cultural expectation (i.e. stranger jumping out of the bushes to rape a pretty young white woman) almost always get treated with skepticism and very rarely do they get justice. See: the reaction to any discussion of rape ever.

We like to think people rally behind the victim, but actually? There's always loud crowds of douchebags making sure to say "Well, you know she could be a liar". As a result? There are a whole lot more women whose rapists were never prosecuted than there EVER IN A MILLION YEARS will be "Men whose lives were ruined because the community rallied behind a rape victim and didn't believe in his innocence."

kendelrio:Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?

Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma. Also, have you ever lived in Hawaii?

So.... um.... there's a lot of raping going on in Hawaii? Was that the point?/Any man who's capable of rape should be incarcerated indefinitely. That's some sick shiat. It's either happening or it aint. SHE gets to decide. Been that way forever, and will be forever.//Has 3 daughters. They will know they have all of the power. I'll make sure of that.

Dokushin:and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for other

I would adamantly disagree with this. All people everywhere need to be taught to have respect for others. It is not a concept newborns are familiar with at birth. In fact, newborns / kids only think about what they want and what feels good at the moment. Someone has to teach them to think differently.

doglover:Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.

Theaetetus:IgG4: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

Then how come you keep responding to me?

Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that you're only ab ...

Somacandra:Whoa there. I think s/he's talking about Laurent Gambill, who was just one of the filers: ... That may be the confusion here. We're mixing up the different cases of survivors who all filed this complaint with the Feds.

Ah, alright. I figured he meant "Boyfriend" as in the usual "I bet they were dating, they boned and she changed her mind" bullshiat. In that case, nevermind the troll score.

You realize that just because people keep saying that, it doesn't make it any different. When someone is murdered there is a murderer, whether or not that murderer is convicted. You can be a rapist without being prosecuted. Plus, read the f*cking article, because the woman in question doesn't farking know who raped her.

born_yesterday:So I'm sitting in Intro to Physics during my freshman year; it is the first day for the class that semester. The professor introduces himself, and gives his spiel about the course curriculum. He then asks if there are any questions.

A girl a few rows ahead of me raises her hand. The professor nods, and the girl stands up. In a shaky but determined voice she says, "Sir, I don't have a question. But the person sitting there is [fake name here], and he raped me." She stood there pointing at the guy.

Well the accused hurriedly excused himself from the room, and she sat back down. The professor decided that would be a good note to close on. Not sure if I saw either the accuser or accused after that day.

doglover:Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.

Well, gosh, who's in the wrong in that situation? The sensationalist reporter who sees "state v. john smith" on the docket and immediately dives into his 1500 words about how John Smith is a monster who farks children with one hand while punching nuns with the other? Or the victim, covered in bruises, scratches, and jizz, who told police she didn't know who raped her, but it was a guy with description [x] (that they think happens to match John Smith)? Whom should we be incensed about, and whom should John Smith heroically attack?Clearly that slut. And all others who may be just her.

Genevieve Marie:We like to think people rally behind the victim, but actually? There's always loud crowds of douchebags making sure to say "Well, you know she could be a liar". As a result? There are a whole lot more women whose rapists were never prosecuted than there EVER IN A MILLION YEARS will be "Men whose lives were ruined because the community rallied behind a rape victim and didn't believe in his innocence."

not to mention the part of the crowd that always believes that the rape victim was a slut who deserved what happened to her...now THAT is a mindset I find truly disturbing. as if someone could 'deserve' rape. these are the same people who see rape as a bonus every time someone gets sent to jail on a pot smoking charge.

Weaver95:bigwf2007: Weaver95: bigwf2007:Yes, Landen Gambill is the one being threatened with an honor code violation,not the others, and all the stories from locall media indicate it was her boyfriend she reported to the honor court for rape.

where are you seeing this at?

This is how the article starts:A University of North Carolina student says she faces possible expulsion for "intimidating" her alleged rapist by speaking publicly about her assault and how the school has handled it.Landen Gambill, a sophomore at UNC, was part of a group that http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/unc-sexual-assault_n_2488383. html" target="_hplink">filed a complaint in January with the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights, alleging the university has routinely violated the rights of sexual assault survivors and failed to assist them in recovery after the reported abuse. Ten days after they filed their complaint, the graduate student attorney general sent a warning to Gambill that she may http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">have violated the school's Honor Code, Jezebel reports.On Friday, Gambill got an email informing her that she was being formally charged with an Honor Code violation for "disruptive or intimidating behavior" against her alleged rapist, although she has never publicly named him. If the UNC Honor Court finds Gambill guilty, the http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expul sion-for-intimidating-her-rapist" target="_hplink">punishment could be expulsion, suspension

I see nothing in that to support your allegations.

It isn't my allegations. The lede says she, noth the others, has been reported for a possible honor code violation for "'disruptive or intimidating behavior'against her alleged rapist." that's the Huffington Post, not me.

Genevieve Marie:victims whose rapes don't match the cultural expectation (i.e. stranger jumping out of the bushes to rape a pretty young white woman)

Oh, both rape cases in the Innocence Project and in the survey of women (violence against women) suggests that very few rapes involved that scenario. I have no idea why so many idiots believe that; it's sad.

TiiiMMMaHHH://Has 3 daughters. They will know they have all of the power. I'll make sure of that.

Make sure that they're empowered to say "Yes" too. I think that's actually one of the biggest contributors to rape culture- the idea that women are supposed to not want sex and men are supposed to work to change their minds.

I think everyone needs to be taught that sex should happen when there is a clear and enthusiastic yes from both parties. If there's not? No dice.

Theaetetus:The University Honor Court had jurisdiction over sexual assault and harassment claims and most students chose not to pursue criminal charges:The only recourse for students who opted not to go to the court was to seek criminal charges, which most chose not to do, Manning said. That means most perpetrators would go completely unpunished.The fact that she tried to resolve the problem this way and not through the police is entirelynormal, even if we disagree with the wisdom and result.

I don't disagree with any point but does any part of this sound like justice to you?

Theaetetus:Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

That purple level remark may ultimately turn out to be the less-than-ten-second "joke" that destroyed this nation.

Clayton Williams said that while running against Democrat ic candidate Ann Richards (R.I.P. ― one of the best governors Texas has had in recent memory) for Governor of Texas. He was beating her by a whopping twenty points in the polls. He had the election in the bag.

And then he made that remark. On TV. Days before the election.

Ann Richards won. She proceeded to do great things for Texas, though her first term was mostly cleaning up the mess from previous (Republican) administrations.

Unfortunately, she only got to serve that one clean-up term, and never got to do more of what she had planned. Because the GOP ran a new candidate against her, a man who was the son of the then-recent President of the United States: George W. Bush, son of George Herbert Walker Bush.

That was how Dubya became Governor of Texas. It could never have happened had Clayton Williams not said that joke. He would've won (which would've been bad for Texas), and would thus have been an incumbent, and the GOP would not risk splitting the vote putting Dubya or anyone else with any serious chance against him when he ran for reelection.

Thus, Dubya would never have been Governor of Texas. And without that as a springboard to give him credibility, he would never have even been in the running to become President of the United States.

Think how different things would be today.

One insensitive jerk tells one insensitive joke that took at most ten seconds to tell, and now America has flushed four trillion dollars down the toilet for the Iraq War alone (that Dubya kept off the books) ― money that could've completely repaired our infrastructure (including bridges on the verge of collapse nationwide ― remember, one collapsed tragically not all that long ago) and brought all public schools up to a competitive level, and much more, setting the stage for the situation we find ourselves in today.

TiiiMMMaHHH:kendelrio: Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?

Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma. Also, have you ever lived in Hawaii?

So.... um.... there's a lot of raping going on in Hawaii? Was that the point?/Any man who's capable of rape should be incarcerated indefinitely. That's some sick shiat. It's either happening or it aint. SHE gets to decide. Been that way forever, and will be forever.//Has 3 daughters. They will know they have all of the power. I'll make sure of that.

No, the point of that question is a friend of mine who I've lost touch woth and was a rape victum is named Genevieve an based on the vehemence with which this person comes into these threads with, I thought it may be her.

"I'm mostly surprised at just how crazy it is, that they're willing to charge me with something just because my rapist is feeling uncomfortable."

In fairness to the university, the correct term is alleged rapist. The university can't and shouldn't condone violations of innocent until proven guilty on its campus.

Especially given how badly that ended the last time this happened with a high-profile case, the university took the woman's side, and she turned out to be full of shiat, landing the uni in loads of legal trouble.

"Save it for court" is, well, a pretty reasonable position for the institution to take, aside from complying with restraining orders and so on.

Dokushin:You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape." Just like no one had to tell me not to murder. Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape

evaned:Ryan2065: But Judicial Programs Officer Erik Hunter said the Honor Court members and the student attorney general's staff received a full day of training after the interim procedures were implemented.

Ooooo, a whole day of training! I'm sure that straightened everyone out!

Dokushin:You know, no one had to tell me "not to rape." Just like no one had to tell me not to murder. Frankly, I find it pretty farking offensive when people say this -- that they think men have to be "trained" not to rape. There are criminals among us. We need to do more to look after their mental health and to perhaps cure them of the diseases that destroy their ability to reason. But men are not criminals, and they do not need to be taught how to have respect for others. All men are not potential rapists, and they don't deserve to be treated like they are.

See above. You're right, most men do not have to be told not to rape, and the few who do won't listen, because they know exactly what the fark they're doing. There are criminals among us, and your responsibility along with the rest of us is to tag them. Only then will we get to a place where all men won't be treated as potential rapists and all women won't need to act as if that's reasonable:

Theaetetus:Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that you're only about 10% or less of the population... and then no one, male or female, needs to live in fear. Because you'll be marked, and you'll be harmless.

There's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.

Read the actual account linked to in the piece. She suffered a concussion and woke up covered in blood. She doesn't know who the rapist was. The point is when she tried to deal with how it affected her coursework, the university refused to cooperate and she found out that others had been treated similarly--thus leading a reasonable observer to conclude a systemic problem. I hate to say this, but as a faculty member I've had to deal with student victims (taking my classes) coming to me for help. Its incredibly sad and painful. And I'm not even the victim.

She was probably just hammered.

She has no idea what happened, but she is a rape victim survivor warrior?

kendelrio:No, the point of that question is a friend of mine who I've lost touch woth and was a rape victum is named Genevieve an based on the vehemence with which this person comes into these threads with, I thought it may be her.

/not a rapist

No, I've never lived in Hawaii, and based on your opinions, I doubt we'd have been friends.

I'm passionate about these issues because I'm a woman, a feminist and oh yea: decent human beings get angry when they see a rape victim treated badly.

Weaver95:Genevieve Marie:We like to think people rally behind the victim, but actually? There's always loud crowds of douchebags making sure to say "Well, you know she could be a liar". As a result? There are a whole lot more women whose rapists were never prosecuted than there EVER IN A MILLION YEARS will be "Men whose lives were ruined because the community rallied behind a rape victim and didn't believe in his innocence."

not to mention the part of the crowd that always believes that the rape victim was a slut who deserved what happened to her...now THAT is a mindset I find truly disturbing. as if someone could 'deserve' rape. these are the same people who see rape as a bonus every time someone gets sent to jail on a pot smoking charge.

mind boggling.

I'm telling you, there are predators in our midst. We need to start marking people on their foreheads, like Ash Wednesday, but with indelible ink or paintballs.

meow said the dog:doglover: Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.

You supporting rapists isn't really surprising. At all.

kendelrio: Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes,

Wow, did you just pull the "I have Black friends" but replaced Black with raped? Awesome.

I don't automatically believe everything I read, noone does; otherwise we wouldn't have discussions about new articles.

I know that women lie. Had a girl accuse me of 'undressing her with my eyes' in high school. No clue who she was, and I wasn't, because I'm gay.

Reading stories like this makes me glad I am. Women will make up 'facts' to fit the emotional narrative they want, and are generally (not all of them...) horrible people to deal with. I would guess that large numbers of psycho-ex-girlfriends have done more damage to society than the few predominantly male serial/mass killers.

If I were King of the World, all women would be locked in (not forced) breeding camps until menopause. Grandmothers are OK.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7612030/82730778#c82730778" target="_blank" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7612030/82730778#c8 2730778">kendelrio:Genevieve Marie: kendelrio: But going to an "Honor Court", in which, if the rapist is found guilty, the maximum penalty is **gasp** expulsion, is "easier"?

fark that. If he's a rapist, contact the police.

Do you have any idea what that process is like for a rape victim?

Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes, I know the trauma. Also, have you ever lived in Hawaii?

But yet you can't understand how any victim would not want to relive that, over and over again? You can't understand the invasiveness of a SANE exam, the stigma, or that some jackoff attorney will be accusing you in court of being a slut, drunk, stupid, etc. or just outright lying when you've already been pulled through hell? The fear of the investigators botching the case and getting all your efforts to bring justice thrown out of court, and then having to know that your tormentor walked?

Wow.... If your sister and, ahem, "friends", had the courage to report, I sincerely hope their efforts weren't in vain and that the rapists got theirs. However, that rarely happens, another reason why sexual assault victims often don't report at all. It's too easy for the case to be thrown out, bogged down, the victim discredited, and no resolution be provided.

kendelrio:meow said the dog: doglover: Meanwhile, a man gets accused of rape, but proven innocent later, people still get all bent outta shape and want to lynch him years after because accusations make headlines but retractions get printed on the back page.

You supporting rapists isn't really surprising. At all.

kendelrio: Having had a sister raped, several friends raped, yes,

Wow, did you just pull the "I have Black friends" but replaced Black with raped? Awesome.