Scales and Arpeggios

I know the pentatonic scale up and down the fretboard...that's the only scale I know. I've been playing guitar for nearly 6 years and I know a crapload of songs. That's how I've learned up to this point. I think it's time to grow up a little as a guitarist and learn some scales and arpeggios.

Where to start? Resources I may need? I don't know the notes up and down the fretboard memorized. Is this a necessary first step? Do I just learn through learning the scale shape, or memorizing what notes belong to which scales?

Here's to progress as a guitarist in 2009, as I'm currently stuck in a guitar rut.

theres 5 shapes you can play the major scales in, learn those then learn how to change those shapes into minor (harmonic + melodic) or blues scales and such. i cant find a link for the 5 shapes though so google it.

theres 5 shapes you can play the major scales in, learn those then learn how to change those shapes into minor (harmonic + melodic) or blues scales and such. i cant find a link for the 5 shapes though so google it.

There's no point memorizing a load at shapes if you don't understand what they represent or how to use them.

TS, you're absolutely correct, you need to learn the notes on the fretboard if you want to progress with theory. While you're learning them start reading josh urban's crusade articles in the columns section.

In every major scale thread there has to be one smartarse who needlessly brings modes into the discussion.

TS, ignore the concept of modes for the time being, they've got nothing to do with what you're currently trying to learn.

I didn't needlessly bring modes into the conversation. I learned the major scale (and without knowing it I learned the 7 modes) by learning these 7 shapes:

So this is how I learned the major scale, these 7 shapes. Did my teacher have to name them by each of the modes? Hell no, he could've named them 1-7, and as long as I was playing with the root of the first shape(Ionian) as my key, I'd be playing the major scale. Once I knew all 7, to play in any key of the MAJOR scale. So once I learned to apply them by root, I knew all of the modes as well, just by knowing these seven shapes. I do agree that you should know what notes you are playing and not just from a shape, but as long as you know the theory behind these shapes, I think you'll be fine.

Also, here is another picture to explain how to apply the shapes. You cannot tell me that in every single mode and every single key that you don't see these shapes, because you do.

Tl;dr: When you memorize these shapes you're learning the major scale, but also for future reference you can apply modes.

If there is anything wrong about learning the major scale (and modes) this way, please tell me so I can stop taking lessons from my teacher who has been teaching for 15 years.

Famous last words are for men who never said enough. - AnonymousGearAgile 3000 Rootbeer slim Vox Valvetronix VT30 Takamine GS430S Acoustic

All that does is set you off down the wrong path believing that a mode is a specific pattern on the fretboard and thinking you're "using modes" just because you happen to be playing in a specific area of the fretboard. All those shapes are the same thing, they're all the major scale, equally they're all the minor scale and also all of the relative modes. For example, the shape you call "Locrian" isn't inherently "Locrian" in nature, it only represents the locrian mode when those notes are used over the correct backing. Scales are all about context, they go hand in hand with the chords you're playing over - the shapes will represent different things in different situations. If you're learning "the major scale" then there's nothing to be achieved from bringing other scales into the frame just because they happen to use the same notes or patterns, that can come later.

Modes are NOT shapes or patterns and the theory behind modes doesn't fit in with the theory behind the major scale. That's why you shouldn't learn them that way, because you're actually trying to learn two different musical systems with different conventions at the same time and that's simply never going to work. You just end up horrendously confused with some bastardised half-understanding of each.

I'm more than happy to criticize your teacher for this, I don't care how long he's been teaching for...there's a lot of teachers out there and sadly they don't all know everything.

All that does is set you off down the wrong path believing that a mode is a specific pattern on the fretboard and thinking you're "using modes" just because you happen to be playing in a specific area of the fretboard. All those shapes are the same thing, they're all the major scale, equally they're all the minor scale and also all of the relative modes. For example, the shape you call "Locrian" isn't inherently "Locrian" in nature, it only represents the locrian mode when those notes are used over the correct backing. Scales are all about context, they go hand in hand with the chords you're playing over - the shapes will represent different things in different situations. If you're learning "the major scale" then there's nothing to be achieved from bringing other scales into the frame just because they happen to use the same notes or patterns, that can come later.

Modes are NOT shapes or patterns and the theory behind modes doesn't fit in with the theory behind the major scale. That's why you shouldn't learn them that way, because you're actually trying to learn two different musical systems with different conventions at the same time and that's simply never going to work. You just end up horrendously confused with some bastardised half-understanding of each.

I'm more than happy to criticize your teacher for this, I don't care how long he's been teaching for...there's a lot of teachers out there and sadly they don't all know everything.

I said that as long as you know the theory behind these scales and how they work, you should be fine, by that I meant learning how to put each scale into context. The C major scale is going to be the same as E phrygian until you seperate by context. I'm aware of that, my teacher taught me that, I guess I should've explained that to, because unless it's your way of teaching it, I guess it's wrong.

Famous last words are for men who never said enough. - AnonymousGearAgile 3000 Rootbeer slim Vox Valvetronix VT30 Takamine GS430S Acoustic