Just watching West again, one thing reference not so clear to me is the extreme close-up of Morton after the opening of the auction. He is looking at a portrait of the sea (I think with the sound effects of waves crashing).

What is the significance, other than his respect for water and its relevance to the steam engine.

Just watching West again, one thing reference not so clear to me is the extreme close-up of Morton after the opening of the auction. He is looking at a portrait of the sea (I think with the sound effects of waves crashing).

What is the significance, other than his respect for water and its relevance to the steam engine.

It is the fact that he wishes to reach the Pacific Ocean before he dies of consumption.

Just watching West again, one thing reference not so clear to me is the extreme close-up of Morton after the opening of the auction. He is looking at a portrait of the sea (I think with the sound effects of waves crashing).

What is the significance, other than his respect for water and its relevance to the steam engine.

it's the film maker's explanation of Morton's motivation to arrange with Frank's bad attitudes in order to get the train going... closer to the ocean, Morton's great dream.

A good friend of mine says that Water is somesort of them in this picture.

The railroad man's seascape painting represents reaching the pacific -- almost all of the ambitious railroad companies of the west included that ocean in their name: Union --, Southern --, Northern --, Chicago Rock Island & --, Missouri ---, Chicago Milwaulkee, St. Paul & ---, etc.

However, water is part of many other key scenes: Claudia's bath in town, the water tower in the beginning, and harmonica asks for some well water because he likes his water fresh. In the final scene Claudia is bringin water to the railroad workers at Jason Robard's urging.

Keep in mind that Morton would've been more mobile in water, that is, the buoyant effect of the water on his useless legs. Not only does he want to accomplish completion of his goal to reach the ocean, he sees water as a partial equalizer.

I mean you can go as far into detail as you want and read into it much more than needed, but simply it's his dream for his railroad to reach the pacific... why i don't know... on the dvd's commentary they comment on the "water motif" throughout the movie... the fact that the only reason sweetwater was of any value was because it had all the things a railroad station/town would need... the most important being water, which apparantly there is a large source of under sweetwater... so basically, in an extremely basic way, most of the intentions in the movie deal with or revolve around water. Water is the fuel that keeps the whole movie going... without it, a lot of the plot would'nt make a whole lot of sense.

Harmonica: So, you're not a businessman after all. Frank: Just a man. Harmonica: An ancient race...

I think Leone knew enough American History (possibly thru watching Westerns) that he knew of the obsession with the Easterners to reach the Pacific.

I would think that this knowledge was fairly widely shared through the 1950s to 60s, but with American History as taught in the schools, most of these themes have been jetisoned so we can teach the kids trivia about women and minority contributions to the building of the nation.

Water tower - Harmonica kills the three gunmen/gets shotSweetWATER ranch - Family massacreBath tub mention in wagonstop - Cheyenne kills his "escort"Fresh water from well - Frank's men killed.Wobbles knocked up against water bucket - Wobbles shot by Frank shortly afterwardCheyenne flushing toilet on train - Frank's men killedJill's bath in town - Killing of Frank's gunmen.Morton in water - DyingCheyenne telling Jill to take water outside - Frank's deathJill taking water outside - Cheyenne's death. The death of the old west

Hmm... There's something very surrealist about that kind of symbolism.

I think that Morton just wants one thing: Join the Atlantic ocean with the Pacific ocean with his train... and his dream is watch the sea at the end of the way... because of this, when he is getting death, Frank watches him getting near of a little water... his dream is watch the ocean before die, and that little group of water represents his dream

There is a feminist theory of water being female but I can't remember the basics of it (I wasn't listening to who was telling me it) but I always think about this when I see the scene in question. Any fems out there that can expand?? He hadn't had an accident at sea as mentioned earlier but says which disease he had (again doesn't spring to mind) was rotting hisbody, not his mind. Frank also remembers him when he was 'barely limping'

Water tower - Harmonica kills the three gunmen/gets shotSweetWATER ranch - Family massacreBath tub mention in wagonstop - Cheyenne kills his "escort"Fresh water from well - Frank's men killed.Wobbles knocked up against water bucket - Wobbles shot by Frank shortly afterwardCheyenne flushing toilet on train - Frank's men killedJill's bath in town - Killing of Frank's gunmen.Morton in water - DyingCheyenne telling Jill to take water outside - Frank's deathJill taking water outside - Cheyenne's death. The death of the old west

Hmm... There's something very surrealist about that kind of symbolism.

Something to do with death, eh?

The water is also seen as facilitating or being necessary to the progress - Morton must reach the ocean (or the puddle) before he dies, the train must pass through sweetwater, Jill gives water to the workmen... so couple that with all the water references preceeding deaths and what you get is water as the driving force behind the whole film.

Half Soldier - well Leone did say about OUTW something along the lines of the old west being the last era when men had balls, and the death of it being the beginning of "the great matriarchy of America" (or words to that effect). Of course this is the significance of a woman from the urban east coming to the west. But you've also made me think how it's always Jill who is providing water (er... no not in that sense ) - her arrival means the building of the sweetwater ranch can go ahead, she gives water to the workers, she makes coffee for cheyenne and of course there are her baths.

So in other words...

- The arrival of Jill symbolises the beginning of the matriarchy of America- Water is the driving force behind the progress of the modern world- Jill provides water