59 comments:

Eh, if it's all in a row I guess that's the preferable order. Although it can't take too long to deliver that whole paragraph. I've gotten the "don't worry, I'm ok" call (as mandated by protocol) that came in LONG before the "this is what happened" call was allowed and frankly, it's unnerving.

He sounds like a Hell of a guy, not unlike Reagan when he was shot. Nice also to see it was a young guy that helped him.

BTW, from what was said last night, Ms Giffords is all but the 7th fatality. She may recover enough of her faculties to have some kind of a life (similar to James Brady), but her Congressional career is over. She will never be the same.

@MadMan, it's partly preparedness, which is why folks like the Drill SGT are so important. In an emergency there is no time to stop and think; you have to do the right thing automatically.

Which is why I despise lawyers who come along after the fact and sue folks who acted under the gun. "Why did you do this? Why didn't you think to do that?" Hey! In the real world you don't even have seconds to think about things. You do, or someone -- not necessarily you, but someone -- dies.

DTL...You are kidding, I hope. The epiphany on Gays is that they are like everyone else. Why do you long for the bad old days ? The way people have sex is not a needed category anymore. Please catch up.

DTL: I believe the young guy has been hailed as a hero both on this blog and in the larger media. I was unaware that we had to identify the sexual preferences of heroes. Perhaps there should be a parenthetical behind each of our names with an identifier like for politicians. (H) homosexual. (S) straight (B)bisexual (T) transgendered (A) ambiguous etc. Would that work for you?

How come there is not one right-wing blog that will acknowledge that the boy that saved her life is a proud gay man???? i think that's quite important in a state that enshrines it in its constitution that gays are second class citizens (as Arizona does).

Yet - Ann proudly pointed out that this guy in her post was straight (by mentioning his wife).

And I'll repeat it again Michael - Ann DID point out that this hero was straight. In fact, she had to go out of her way to make that point - but she did make it.

But when the hero is gay - not only is he ignored (he's been routinely ignored in almost all of the right-wing blogs, where is heroic moment is not even mentioned), but when he is mentioned, they have to hide the fact that he is gay.

I want to know how Arizona can deny its heros the same freedoms they grant to non-heros.

And now everyone who reads these comments will know that Daniel Hernandez, proud latino who saved Gabby's life is an openly gay man.

Because FOX News will never acknowledge that. Instapundit will never acknolwedge that. Ann Althouse will never acknowledge that. National Review will never acknowledge that.

But they certainly want to know about every gay man in the military, and then root them out and get them kicked out of the military. They want to know about every gay person in Texas who might be having sex with their partner - and then get them put in jail.

So yeah - when there are laws in this country that discriminate against people solely because you are gay - it DOES matter if you are gay or not.

Maybe when those laws disappear it will be irrelevant, but you can guarantee that every single Republican will be fighting tooth and nail to keep those laws in place (as the Senate's unanimous republican opposition to DADT repeal made very clear).

The other guy in the story, Joe Zamudio, said he had his hand on his gun and was ready to shoot, but Badger and others already had him down.

My question is to the people who want to ban guns. Are you going to take Joe's away too? Even though he didn't shoot anyone, and was rushing to defend others he does have an "evil" gun.Do you want to take away thousands of people's property because of criminal misuse from a few?Thousands of people drive drunk and lives are lost, Should we take everyone's car away too?

What if he's a proud catholic? Should that be in there? Should Professor Althouse have to list someone's entire vita, including sexuality, just to make you happy, DTL? She mentioned THIS GUY'S WIFE BECAUSE THAT'S WHO HE CALLED.

Next thing you'll be demanding is including whether he's a proud top or bottom.

dlt, you are so full of crap. Everyone has acknowledged the guy was gay. You can't avoid knowing he was gay as that seems to be his defining feature according to you and the media - including Fox News.

As to why Ann mentioned the Colonel's wive, well, the post was about him calling her and what he said. Had the "gay guy" called his partner in a simliar fashion I am sure Ann would have posted it as well.

BTW, I say "gay guy" because evidently that is how you want him remembered instead of just a brave young man who acted responsibly in a moment of crisis.

I mean seriously, first it's "Sarah Palin did it", then it was "why do you guys care more about Sarah Palin than about the victims" and now it's "you're trying to airbrush out the Gay Experience in the Tucson shooting".

Just ignore them. They can't be reasoned with and their narrative changes from day to day. They just come here to drop turds and rile people, the very definition of "trolling".

I was subtly (perhaps too subtly, since you didn't notice) pointing out that the right is also using this situation to vindicate/reinforce their political views.

BTW, I think that this is a legitimate data point. So, both sides should be able to connect this shooting to related policies. Of course, we'll all need to judge the legitimacy/applicability of these attempted connections.

DTL: "he's been routinely ignored in almost all of the right-wing blogs, where is heroic moment is not even mentioned"

So, DTL, you too are a homophobic hater!! It wasn't a "moment" you vile gay bashing hillbilly moron, it was many many minutes including a heroic ambulance ride to the bloody hospital. It's haters like you who do whatever they can to minimize the heroism of gays and God only knows what you might have snarked had the hero been transgendered. You are disgusting and you have revealed yourself as insensitive too to the actual proclivities of the hero. How do you know he isn't a brave bisexual? Are you sure he isn't transgendered? You should really do something about your insensitive soulless attitude.

@1jpb: "the right is also using this situation to vindicate/reinforce their political views."

Exactly. And the view of the right is that politics or harsh rhetoric had nothing to do with these murders and that the left's immediate finger pointing evidences the tragic immorality of the left and its cheerleaders in the media.

As soon as this shooting occurred I commented (here) that it made no sense to claim Palin's crosshair graphics and reload rhetoric could cause someone to go on this rampage. I haven't changed my mind.

But, that doesn't prevent me from noting that some on the right are also motivated by politics.

BTW, if BHO had put a target on a con's district, and if that con had been shot in the head, do you think some cons would have noted BHO's crosshairs after the shooting? The reason that cons didn't say that BHO had targeted Giffords w/ a crosshair prior to her being shot is because he didn't do that, not because cons chose to ignore BHO's Gabby-targeting actions.

Ok, I'll bite. I am very proud of Hernandez. He was heroic. This is the first I knew he was gay, since the stories I saw on CNN and Fox did not mention that fact. It's not clear why they should, since his gayness does not either promote or detract from his heroism, but sure it's nice that a gay guy did this wonderful thing, and all these old people, and some Jews, and an agnostic or two, maybe an Italian American, and I sure was impressed with that Asian American doctor, and oh did you know that Giffords is Jewish (I did not until yesterday and why was that nor reported sooner?) and where are the Muslims in all this but I'm so proud that this was not a radical Muslim terrorist act and yes I thought our African-American President (his father was a real African, you know) made a nice statement on TV and I'm not gay or Christian or Muslim but I'm pretty old so be nice to old people and tell us how old they are please.

I wasn't accusing you of the trollery we saw from Florida and Alpha Lib et. al.

But, that doesn't prevent me from noting that some on the right are also motivated by politics.

That's trivially true. Of course there are jackals all over the spectrum who want to exploit it for political gain.

BTW, if BHO had put a target on a con's district, and if that con had been shot in the head, do you think some cons would have noted BHO's crosshairs after the shooting? The reason that cons didn't say that BHO had targeted Giffords w/ a crosshair prior to her being shot is because he didn't do that, not because cons chose to ignore BHO's Gabby-targeting actions.

The DLC and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee already put Republicans in cross-hairs (oh, all right, they were "targets" and "bullseyes"). DailyKos put GIFFORD in a bullseye for being insufficiently liberal and therefore "targeted" for primary challenge.

If any of those "targeted" conservatives are murdered by crazy people, and cons blame Dems, I will join you in condemning it.

Until then, all you have is "I bet you would have done the same". You can always say that about anything.

What's got me angry is that prominent liberals and leftists, BEFORE ANY FACTS CAME OUT ABOUT THE SHOOTER, chose to accuse the Tea Party and conservatives of complicity in the murder. Literally within minutes. Paul Krugman has just doubled down on it.

1jpb: "But, that doesn't prevent me from noting that some on the right are also motivated by politics."

Motivated how? By pushing back against baseless smears? Motivated in what way and as evidenced by what political pronouncements? Did the news media immediately say that the shooter was a left wing doper whose murderous attitude was abetted by forty years of permissive liberal doctrine that urged young people to do their own thing? Is that the political angle that bothers you so?

edutcher - "BTW, from what was said last night, Ms Giffords is all but the 7th fatality. She may recover enough of her faculties to have some kind of a life (similar to James Brady), but her Congressional career is over. She will never be the same."

We really don't know what the extent of her recovery will be. Little early to write her off, dutcher.

On the other hand, the media conditions people to believe that in war or in a shooting incident like this, the ONLY casualties we should focus on are the dead. That there is a near-magical belief in medicine to make any non-fatal casualty "perfectly fine" with time. So Giffords surviving means she will eventually be "A-OK".

That is generally not true in the few that survive a gunshot wound through the brain.

For info, James Brady was hit by a .22, Giffords a .9 mm with eight times the bullet energy.

All we can do is hope that the Congresswoman pulls through, then recovers enough to have a life worth living with enough body function, her thinking, personality, and memories relatively uncompromised or lost utterly.She is highly unlikely to be walking around 1-2, even 20 years later like this never happened.

1pjbAm I pushing my political point of view?You're damn right I am.What I'm not doing is accusing anyone of complicity in a crime because they don't share my point of view.Maybe while you personally aren't The majority of the left is pushing the idea that most of the violence is done by or caused by the Right.

TWM said...dlt, you are so full of crap. Everyone has acknowledged the guy was gay.=================I'd add that the camera-loving gay guy, from looking at the scene, went to the table the Congresswoman was shot at, from the right of the table, as the gunman was trying to escape to the left, shooting as he made his way from the Safeway to Walgreens, where he was tackled by people that actually DID stop the spree. About 150 feet from the table.

I think the gay intern acted admirably, showing he cared by putting a bit of cloth to the bullet hole on her forehead (not knowing about the exit wound) and comforting her. A bit of partially helpful 1st Aid.

But I don't see him as one of the "Brave Heroes". His actions were not done bravely charging towards a gunman, but going to the table by Safeway as the nutball was running away in the opposite direction, and already 100 feet away from his 4 shot victims at the table. By the time he did anything for the Congresswoman, Col Badger and the 2 others had the gunman down and shooting stopped.Nor were his 1st Aid actions, life -saving. Just well-intentioned, though largely ineffectual. However, I don't begrudge him for seizing the spotlight and promoting himself as "special". And while the danger was receeding, half the people to the right of the table ran, while a few dozen inc the gay guy stayed and tried helping.

I'd say there were 4 real heroes. The two men and women who took on and stopped Loughren by tackling him and disarming him.And the old man who saved his wife's life by throwing himself between her and the gunman. (He died).

Sometimes the liberal or progressive Jewish agenda of the media makes them pick heroes to tout. A gay hispanic knocks off two checkmarks on the "diversity" checklist. During the Ft. Hood Shooting media firestorm, the hero du jour was the "fearless female cop who took down the deranged lone gunman who had no connection to Islamic terror". That narrrative fell apart 8 months later. (The no connection to terror instinctive media reaction died within a day) It wasn't the "fearless female hero" that stopped Islamoid terrorist Nidal Hasan. While she was fearless, and she was a hero, Hasan shot her and put her down, and she missed him with her shots. It was a nameless male cop that fired the shot that folded the Islamoid up with a severed spine.

TWM said...dlt, you are so full of crap. Everyone has acknowledged the guy was gay.=================I'd add that the camera-loving gay guy, from looking at the scene, went to the table the Congresswoman was shot at, from the right of the table, as the gunman was trying to escape to the left, shooting as he made his way from the Safeway to Walgreens, where he was tackled by people that actually DID stop the spree. About 150 feet from the table.

I think the gay intern acted admirably, showing he cared by putting a bit of cloth to the bullet hole on her forehead (not knowing about the exit wound) and comforting her. A bit of partially helpful 1st Aid.

But I don't see him as one of the "Brave Heroes". His actions were not done bravely charging towards a gunman, but going to the table by Safeway as the nutball was running away in the opposite direction, and already 100 feet away from his 4 shot victims at the table. By the time he did anything for the Congresswoman, Col Badger and the 2 others had the gunman down and shooting stopped.Nor were his 1st Aid actions, life -saving. Just well-intentioned, though largely ineffectual. However, I don't begrudge him for seizing the spotlight and promoting himself as "special". And while the danger was receeding, half the people to the right of the table ran, while a few dozen inc the gay guy stayed and tried helping.

I'd say there were 4 real heroes. The two men and women who took on and stopped Loughren by tackling him and disarming him.And the old man who saved his wife's life by throwing himself between her and the gunman. (He died).

Sometimes the liberal or progressive Jewish agenda of the media makes them pick heroes to tout. A gay hispanic knocks off two checkmarks on the "diversity" checklist. During the Ft. Hood Shooting media firestorm, the hero du jour was the "fearless female cop who took down the deranged lone gunman who had no connection to Islamic terror". That narrrative fell apart 8 months later. (The no connection to terror instinctive media reaction died within a day) It wasn't the "fearless female hero" that stopped Islamoid terrorist Nidal Hasan. While she was fearless, and she was a hero, Hasan shot her and put her down, and she missed him with her shots. It was a nameless male cop that fired the shot that folded the Islamoid up with a severed spine.

DTL;I live in AZ and am getting bombarded (sorry for the analogy) with news about this story. This is the first time I've heard that Mr. Hernandez is gay...Great (I guess. I mean I'd say "great" is you said he was straight or celebate)

As far as "Heroic Giffords Intern Could Be Asked For Papers Under Arizona Immigration Law." if you follow the links there's nothing about any Arizona official or law enforcement person suggesting he should be questioned regarding citizenship, its simply criticism of SB 1070 from those on the left using Mr. Hernandez as the takeoff for the criticism.

Obviously very political and frankly demonstrating a poor understanding of the law.

(and PS I don't support SB 1070 and I'm not gay; please don't hold that against me.)

edutcher - "BTW, from what was said last night, Ms Giffords is all but the 7th fatality. She may recover enough of her faculties to have some kind of a life (similar to James Brady), but her Congressional career is over. She will never be the same."

We really don't know what the extent of her recovery will be. Little early to write her off, dutcher.

Going by The Blonde's reaction when the wound was described. 5 of her 43 years' nursing was in rehab. I'll take her word.

I don't understand why DTL is even commenting on this. According to HIS standard, set forth on the New York City Mosque, if you don't live in New York you shouldn't have an opinion on it. AFAIK, he doesn't live in Arizona.