Another thing worth pointing out is cold ferments, I haven't seen a bread recipe call for this but it is widely used in pizza making.

Nick (chasenpse),

In looking at the bread dough recipes in Prof. Calvel's book The Taste of Bread, I saw several bread dough recipes calling for the cold fermentation of preferments, for example, for 15-18 hours at 39-41 degrees F. But, as best I can tell, the final proof of the dough was at room temperature.

I also recall that Nancy Silverton, in her book Breads from the La Brea Bakery, has dough recipes that use natural leavenings and that call for cold fermentation of the dough.

In looking at the bread dough recipes in Prof. Calvel's book The Taste of Bread, I saw several bread dough recipes calling for the cold fermentation of preferments, for example, for 15-18 hours at 39-41 degrees F. But, as best I can tell, the final proof of the dough was at room temperature.

I also recall that Nancy Silverton, in her book Breads from the La Brea Bakery, has dough recipes that use natural leavenings and that call for cold fermentation of the dough.

Peter

Ok, you got me. I'll have to do some more reading on the subject! It's been recommended to me to stay away from cold ferments when using natural leavening agents like starters because of the lack of 'power' compared to commercial yeast, although I'm starting to think about challenging that. Perhaps a test is in order, 4 dough balls of which two will be under developed and two will be autolysed, slap and folded, etc. and compare a RT ferment vs. a 3 day cold ferment.

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Ok, you got me. I'll have to do some more reading on the subject! It's been recommended to me to stay away from cold ferments when using natural leavening agents like starters because of the lack of 'power' compared to commercial yeast, although I'm starting to think about challenging that. Perhaps a test is in order, 4 dough balls of which two will be under developed and two will be autolysed, slap and folded, etc. and compare a RT ferment vs. a 3 day cold ferment.

Nick (chasenpse),

What you say is generally true but if you use a lot of sourdough starter you can get away with cold fermentation. For example, Nancy Silverton has a basic dough recipe that calls for a cup and a third of "White Starter". When I converted that to baker's percent, it was around 35% by weight of the flour. Also, my recollection is that Jeff Varasano used around 8% starter, although he was using much higher than 8% when he first started. It is when you get to sub-5% levels that you can run into problems with cold fermentation using natural leavening systems.

Here's another lovely. I think it's great that a recipe and a picture can start a interesting conversation, and in the process I learned some new things. As they say "A picture is worth a thousand words." I have never tried to make one of these. Today I saw the Chef Boyardee pizza kits and thought about picking it up for fun. Maybe next time.

Pizza, just like Mom used to make. When we had pizza at home, when I was a kid, it was Chef Boyardee. We enjoyed it, because it was all we knew. Then we got to go to Pizza Hut, in the late 1960s and early 70s. Luckily, my tastes have evolved well beyond those early pies.

Here's another lovely. I think it's great that a recipe and a picture can start a interesting conversation, and in the process I learned some new things. As they say "A picture is worth a thousand words." I have never tried to make one of these. Today I saw the Chef Boyardee pizza kits and thought about picking it up for fun. Maybe next time.