vagrantc: From my (apparently wrong) understanding of the typical usages of PXE and LTSP, PXE is used more as a "fat" client (where the client does the processing, and the server simply provides files), while LTSP is more as a "thin" client (where the server does really everything, and, the client is just a frontend)..

00:44

<mathesis>

iface eth0 inet static

00:44

address 192.168.0.1

00:44

netmask 255.255.255.0

00:44

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: most LTSP installations use PXE to boot... sooooo...

00:44

<mathesis>

its correct vagrantc ?

00:44

<vagrantc>

mathesis: si, mas o menos

00:45

<mathesis>

wait i back

00:45

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00:45

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: Yeah, I realised that *after* I sent that reply...

00:46

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: heh. ok.

00:47

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: I couldn't think of another word to describe diskless clients

00:47

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: it's tricky. "network computer" "diskless workstation" ... but all of these have, at some point, been used to describe thin-clients, too.

00:47

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: Yup

00:48

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: "diskless fat client" is probably the best i've heard so far.

00:48

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: For the project that was being described on nmosug-l, I think diskless thin clients would be best though...and, I think for most of those types of setups would work well as thin

00:48

<vagrantc>

of course, there's always the really sharp person who makes some snickering joke about dickless clients

00:49

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: Has anyone tried clustering together LTSP hosts (as in the LTSP servers)?

00:50

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: yeah, if you want to focus on re-use ... though people are starting to even treat 1GHz machines as slow ... which would make for slick "diskless fat clients"

vagrantc: I was thinking of getting 2-3 1.0-2.0ghz machines, clustering those together (though openmosix or something) and using those to server 20-50 thin clients

00:52

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: might work decently. though you might do just as well to have each machine run a complete installation, and somehow load-balance ...

00:52

nick125_lappy: that way, if one of them fails, you don't loose processes on other machines ...

00:53

i'm a big fan of the Keep It Simple Stupid philosophy.

00:54

if you really wanted to do something like openmosix, i would think you'd want to make use of all those idle cycles on the thin-clients ...

00:54

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: I was thinking of that as well, use the thin clients as a cluster

00:56

<vagrantc>

but it's been a while since i've really maintained more than a single thin-client for LTSP development. trying to get the core ltsp stuff in debian solid before embarking on fancy stuff like clustering :)

00:57

my thin-client is actually more powerful than my "server" (except for ram)

00:58

<nick125_lappy>

I've really wanted to play with thin-clients, but, I've never had the time (nor enough machines to do anything too useful)...

00:59

<vagrantc>

i find even in environments of 2-3 computers thin-clients can be useful. in portland, oregon there's a cafe with 3 public terminals and a server. they can abuse the terminals to no end, and they're relatively easy to replace.

01:00

<nick125_lappy>

I really like the scalability aspect of thin-clients. Need another computer? It would probably take 20 minutes to setup a new machine, once you have the hardware

01:00

<vagrantc>

yup.

01:00

or less

01:02

<nick125_lappy>

It would be incredibly inexpensive as well (if you use used computers, it would probably cost...$45-$60 for an "okay" client, but, you don't need much)

01:02

<vagrantc>

or, even less, if you just take people's junk and process it, like freegeek :)

01:03

<nick125_lappy>

too bad there isn't a freegeek here in NM :/

01:03

<vagrantc>

yeah, i've tried to stir up some interest...

01:03

but i'm not the real go-getter sort of person.

01:04

it's one thing to write some free software, it's another to run a nonprofit.

01:04

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: I would think we could possibly get enough interest to actually start one here..

01:04

I'm pretty sure theres enough old hardware here

01:04

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: the key is finding a small group of people with just enough spare time to make it happen :)

01:04

yeah, hardware is almost never the shortage

01:05

<nick125_lappy>

And, there's a need for something (most people just throw their old computers in the trash)..

01:05

I have too much spare time :p

01:05

<vagrantc>

or in the acequia

01:05

nick125_lappy: time to make your wishes come true, then :)

01:06

<nick125_lappy>

Meh, I don't have enough power myself to do much..

01:06

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: ah, you've realized the most important part is networking :)

01:07

<nick125_lappy>

*nod*

01:08

If we started a freegeek in albuquerque, I think one thing that would be interesting would to get 20-30 machines, set them up in a room, and, sort of open a public computer lab (where people can come to browse the web, do their homework, and most importantly, learn about open source)

01:08

<vagrantc>

yes! and that way we could keep it on-topic by installing LTSP :)

01:09

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01:09

<nick125_lappy>

All the machines would run LTSP

01:09

* vagrantc notes there is a freegeek channel on freenode

01:10

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: Want to talk in PM then? :)

01:10

<vagrantc>

nick125_lappy: no, just come on over to freegeek :)

01:10

nick125_lappy: i mean, the irc channel

01:10

<nick125_lappy>

vagrantc: of course

01:18

<Elive_user99>

vagrantc, you can shared dhcpd.conf

01:18

<vagrantc>

Elive_user99: hmmm?

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09:08

<ybanafa>

Hi All .. I'm using sarge64bit, Can I install ltsp-4.2 or 5 ?

09:08

<cliebow>

certainly 4.2..

09:09

<sepski>

yes, but unless your client is also 64 bit, you must make a 32 bit chroot

09:09

<cliebow>

you'd i think have to build the client on a 32 bit machine

09:09

<ybanafa>

do I have to install lib32 ?

09:09

<cliebow>

unless you have 64 bit vclients 8~)

09:09

is there an echo??

09:10

<ybanafa>

all of them sarge64bit

09:11

we will use it for technical-training .. is there any issue or note about sarge64bit ?

09:11

<sepski>

you have 64 bit cpu's as thin clients ? what brand/model ? :)

09:11

<ybanafa>

intel P-D 920

09:12

<sepski>

so why use them as thin clients instead of diskless workstations ?

09:13

<ybanafa>

sorry the Server intel P-D 920 , client Celeron-D I do not have No but em64t

09:13

<sepski>

so why use them as thin clients instead of diskless workstations ?

09:14

<ybanafa>

all the client loaded with XP for daily use/training

09:15

sarge64bit faster then sarge32bit 20-40%

09:17

<sepski>

ybanafa, your not aswering my question

09:17

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09:18

<ybanafa>

sepski : all the client loaded with XP for daily use/training ..

09:19

we XP & Linux at the same time .. do u have any other solution

09:19

<sepski>

so why use them as thin clients instead of diskless workstations ?

09:20

ltsp thin client runs the applications on the server, only displaying the image on the clients. so the client only need 100mhz and 16 MB ram

09:21

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09:21

<sepski>

such a fast computer can be booted with ltsp5 or similar diskless workstation where only the root fs of the machines are on the server, the cpu is used as normal

09:22

with ltsp5 the same server can act as both a server for thin clients and as a server for diskless clients. depending on what interface on the server the client is connected to

09:29

<ybanafa>

we have one training class with 10Celeron+512MB Ram we train & teach Windows products Now we will start Teaching Linux and our budget & the place too tight we have one new PD-920 with 1Gig-ram & 120g harddisk

09:30

can we use LTSP ?

09:31

<sepski>

ofcourse

09:31

<ybanafa>

what u recomand ?

09:31

<sepski>

but i would do it as diskless workstations and not as thinclients

09:32

<ybanafa>

u mean I have to creat floppies to boot to the server ?

09:33

<sepski>

no you must install a linux on the server.

09:33

and the clients boot from network when they are going to be used in a linux enviorment

09:33

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09:34

<sepski>

if you want to get started easy, i'd recoment debian-edu or edubuntu, cd's to install on the server.

09:35

then you can do something like http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LtspDisklessWorkstation to enable diskless workstations,

09:35

i think the procedure is very similar for edubuntu

09:35

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09:38

<ybanafa>

sepski : thasks .. I'l read the doc. & give it try

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09:46

<cliebow>

why not just use etherboot floppy when you want to switch?

09:47

<sepski>

cliebow, becouse f12 during boot is easier ? :)

09:48

<ybanafa>

whats f12 ?

09:49

<sepski>

to the right of F11 on my keyboard. and many bios's use that button for enabeling pxe boot

09:49

(instead of booting on the harddrive)

09:50

ybanafa, personaly i'd make the clients pxe boot allways. and have a pxelinux meny where you can select localharddrive (windows) or booting from network (linux)

09:50

afk

09:55

<ybanafa>

Thanks .. I have to run & I'll be back after give all option try next week

09:55

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10:28

<cliebow>

sepski: Cool..i was just wondering about a dual boot setup for pxe

10:33

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10:33

<sbalneav>

Morning all

10:33

<jammcq>

SCOTTY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10:34

<sbalneav>

hey hey

10:41

It said it was confirmed, but I re-confirmed it.

10:41

<cliebow>

Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10:41

<sbalneav>

hello cliebow

10:42

<jammcq>

how many talks did you submit ?

10:43

sbalneav: pablo says you are all set now

10:43

<sbalneav>

cool

10:43

just the one.

10:44

I can do more if they need filler :)

10:44

<jammcq>

no, I think they have way more proposals than slots

10:44

he was just wondering if you had submitted more than one, but only confirmed one

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10:45

<mistik1>

morning guys

10:46

<sailli>

is any one running suse enterprise server with ltsp and guest windows on thin clients

10:47

<mistik1>

the last time I did that was with win98 and it was not really with ltsp at the time

10:47

<jammcq>

mistik1: howdie to you

10:48

<mistik1>

jammcq: cool morning in GA ;)

10:48

<jammcq>

"cool" what is cool? it's 18F here

10:48

<sailli>

hi

10:48

<mistik1>

gladly no such thing as snow

10:49

39.5F is cold here

10:49

<jammcq>

heh, don't even ask sbalneav what the temp is up in winnipeg

10:49

<mistik1>

I am more merciful than that ;)

10:50

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10:52

<sailli>

jammcq: did u tryed virtualziation with thin clients with ltsp on *any* os

10:54

<jammcq>

sailli: nope, I've not tried virtualization.

10:54

<mistik1>

I used win4lin to provide windows back in 2.95 days

10:55

maybe you could try with qemu or something

10:56

that would not give you access to things like the local devices on the thin-client though

10:56

<sailli>

jammcq: i was using ltsp for 2-3 friends about 1 or may be more back with version 3 where i can see more dtls on version 4 's feature

10:56

mistik1: thanks

10:56

<mistik1>

You would probably need some more scripting to pass the ltspfs mounted drives to the running qemu session via the monitor interface

that's something I may look into at a later date once this ltsp5 stuff is on a roll

10:59

<sbalneav>

What's cairo?

10:59

<ogra>

a vector drawing engine ...

10:59

<sbalneav>

cool

10:59

<ogra>

way smaller than gnomecanvas

10:59

and faster i hope, havent tried it on a client yet

11:00

<mistik1>

ogra: what other deps would that pull in for ldm?

11:00

just cairo?

11:00

<ogra>

but fill svg support for the themeing ... no more heavy bitmaps that need to go over the net

11:00

mistik1, it would pull in librsvg but drop gnomecanvas ...

11:01

<mistik1>

ok

11:01

<ogra>

smalle mem footprint, faster rendering

11:01

*amaller

11:01

gah

11:01

<mistik1>

I get it

11:01

<ogra>

*s m a l l e r

11:01

but i dont :)

11:01

<mistik1>

Its a fancy speeling morning

11:01

<ogra>

evening for me :)

11:02

<jammcq>

pscheie: ping

11:02

ogra: !!!!!!!!!

11:02

<ogra>

i' pondering a right click menu that offers a server selection ... so you can input a different server

11:03

<mistik1>

jammcq: one question I never asked is, why did you decide that going back to the method ltsp escaped from was a good idea

11:03

I remember back in the old days we were heading away from the whole distro for the client method that was popular at the time

11:04

<ogra>

mistik1, it lowers source maintenance costs ...

11:04

<mistik1>

Dont get me wrong, I agree ;)

11:04

<ogra>

you leave the maintenance of the system to the distros and can concentrate on actual ltsp development

11:05

<jammcq>

mistik1: we came to the conclusion that we just couldn't keep things updated properly, and distros wouldn't ship our bits

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11:20

<ace>

hi all

11:20

!seen ogra

11:20

<ltspbot>

ace: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 15 minutes and 54 seconds ago: <ogra> you leave the maintenance of the system to the distros and can concentrate on actual ltsp development

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13:00

<lar1>

I have LTSP up and running. Thanks. I'm wondering what is the best way to connect a client that boots from its own hard disk and is sometimes a regular (low power) workstation? The client would already be running Xfce on ubuntu on x86.

13:01

I have tried

13:01

sudo X -query xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa :1

13:01

which works, but is there a way to avoid using sudo?

13:04

<ogra>

lar1, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPMultiboot ?

13:05

<lar1>

Thanks. That's a step in the right direction. I'm thinking more that the users would boot and get Xfce, then if they want, connect to LTSP.

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13:17

<lar1>

thx bye

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15:06

<erdinc>

hi everyone

15:08

jammcq u there?

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17:30

* erdinc bye aLL..

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17:31

<jamie>

Can any one help me. I am trying to install an older kernel on ltsp as the latest one on edgy does not seem to support the sound balster module on the sff very well. How do I do this please