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I'm mainly upset because it conflicts with the books. It basically guarantees that we won't get the conversation where Robb wants to name Jon his heir with Bran & Rickon dead (they think) and his wife not yet with child, where Catelyn is mortified at the thought that Winterfell could pass to Jon rather than Sansa should Robb die in the field of battle. And says so, strongly. So strongly it would conflict with her having anything other than hate for Jon, which the TV people have just made up.

It's really arse backwards at the moment with all of Robb and Catelyn's story. Why they fuck Bran and Rickon are just "missing presumed dead" at this point is beyond me. Robb's grief at hearing his brothers have been murdered was one of the biggest factors in him being "comforted" by his girl to begin with, as well as being wounded, which also didn't happen in the show. So basically, it's just being horny that caused him to fuck Nurse Bint.

I wouldn't be a pedantic purist in terms of sticking to the books if the changes were made due to much-ballyhooed reasons of time constraints, and the sheer scale and scope of some things being rather difficult to film. But a great deal of the changes that are being made seem to happen for no reason at all. Time constraints certainly isn't an issue for Robb's arc in converting A Clash Of Kings into series 2 since Robb barely features in that book and the interesting things that happen to him happen mostly in reported speech or just in conversations with his mother at Riverrun, if anything they had to make up new stuff to get Robb into the show more. The only thing I can understand is they wouldn't have wanted to film a battle and create a new location for The Crag, and they wanted a romance storyline for Robb that we the viewer would get to see. But the changes in respect to Bran/Rickon's "deaths", Cat's attitude to Jon and especially Catelyn having chance to warn Robb not to break his pact with the Freys, all seem pointless to me. In fact, many of them seem detrimental in that they make Robb seem weaker/dumber/more naive than he is meant to be - despite being markedly older in the show than he is the book.

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Fair enough! I can see your points (it's been ages since I read the books so I can't really comment in too much depth on any changes, but I would agree that Robb's been a bit dim since the end of season 1) ... the only one I'd argue with would be the removal of the idea of Jon taking over Winterfell. As far as I'm concerned as a viewer of the show, Jon took the Night's Watch oath, which we know includes the promise that he "shall... hold no lands". There's no sense in muddying the waters on that unless it's absolutely vital to do so (which, as a viewer of the show and not taking the books into account, it doesn't seem to be).

But anyway, we're veering close to talking about the books rather than the series-at-US-pace, which is why this thread's been created, so I'll concede defeat to you while retaining my view that I liked the scene, and we can all resume talking about how good Diana Rigg was.

Edited April 11, 2013 by HarmonicGenerator

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Yes. The scene was perfectly balanced in terms of "is this genuine or is Sansa being played" as a lot of scenes were (the scenes with any combination of Margaery and/or Loras with Joffrey and/or Cersei are superb and laced with clever implications) and Dame Diana was great. Exactly how I imagined The Queen Of Thorns.

As were the Reeds, in fairness. Makes me optimistic that later casting proves as good - in particular Arianne Martell, Griff and The Red Viper.

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I always find people talking about characters by their real names is just as grating as people referring to wrestlers by their real names. I hate having to google names to see who people are talking about, when they could just as easily call them by their characters name.

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I always find people talking about characters by their real names is just as grating as people referring to wrestlers by their real names. I hate having to google names to see who people are talking about, when they could just as easily call them by their characters name.

I don't know her characters name yet to be fair, so many names to remember and they're all silly made-up names which makes it harder, but I know she's Diana Rigg. Or I'll just call her Granny Tyrell for now.