What about having requirements for backdoors into technology? That is happening.

As far as expense, it doesn't matter. You've seen the Utah NSA data center, no? The Ed Snowden/NSA story states that it is blank surveillance.

Intercepting and hand modifying every piece of computing technology shipped even from just Dell is a silly claim. It would be monumentally expensive to do and impossible to hide. And laughably pointless.

Makes sense for a targeted purpose, but not as a general practice. Much easier to just force manufacturers to build in monitoring equipment and/or compromise the quality of security products.

Now, if you knew [insert specific target here] was going to order a sweet new rig from [insert maker here]? Sure, I could see that happening.

Intercepting and hand modifying every piece of computing technology shipped even from just Dell is a silly claim. It would be monumentally expensive to do and impossible to hide. And laughably pointless.

Makes sense for a targeted purpose, but not as a general practice. Much easier to just force manufacturers to build in monitoring equipment and/or compromise the quality of security products.

Now, if you knew [insert specific target here] was going to order a sweet new rig from [insert maker here]? Sure, I could see that happening.

It is happening from factory. Read what I am citing in the articles I post.

Did you not see the back doors built into new cell phones? Sheesh. Dudes, it is happening. I don't understand the myopia.

It is happening from factory. Read what I am citing in the articles I post.

Did you not see the back doors built into new cell phones? Sheesh. Dudes, it is happening. I don't understand the myopia.

What we're talking about is the plausibility of the claim that the NSA intercepts shipments in transit and modifies individual components. No one is even remotely arguing what you seem to think we are.

What we're talking about is the plausibility of the claim that the NSA intercepts shipments in transit and modifies individual components. No one is even remotely arguing what you seem to think we are.

nah, you just put requirements into manufacturers for backdoors to be built in.

(that's what my point is, this is happening - and it's broad spectrum. Phone collection data, and internet data is proof that it's not selective.)

Nah. Security researchers would've found widespread backdoors installed like that within months, if not weeks. Never mind the sheer number of people, even people outside the US Government's control who'd have to be both complicit in it and silent about it.

I'm not saying the government has never done it in targeted situations. But doing it on a widespread basis would never work. And would be ridiculously inefficient compared to the means already at their disposal.

Nah. Security researchers would've found widespread backdoors installed like that within months, if not weeks. Never mind the sheer number of people, even people outside the US Government's control who'd have to be both complicit in it and silent about it.

I'm not saying the government has never done it in targeted situations. But doing it on a widespread basis would never work. And would be ridiculously inefficient compared to the means already at their disposal.

It is happening (backdoor requirements), it was classified until leaked, it is wide spread.

They have backdoors with service providers and possibly software companies. But they're not effing with firmware or hardware, except maybe on specific targets.

Incorrect.look at ed snowden, see my link in this thread about firmware required for HD manufacturers, see iphone, should I continue? Or does the nsa taking and storing, mining data for everyone not clear enough.

Incorrect.look at ed snowden, see my link in this thread about firmware required for HD manufacturers, see iphone, should I continue? Or does the nsa taking and storing, mining data for everyone not clear enough.

I've read all about it. Mostly it comes down to some advanced exploits with some targeted interception of shipping sprinkled in.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of any of it under the auspices of the NSA. Especially not domestically.

But there's no way they're doing this on anything resembling a majority of hardware out there. I mean, outside of the risks of being discovered, what does it gain them? Once they have access to your pipe through your isp and content providers there's not much else they need from your computer... unless you specifically catch their interest.

Unless, of course, the BIOS or other hardware/firmware has been swapped or otherwise compromised.

Right....but once I over-write it with a new version. this is all possible just an extremely ridiculous vector to take toward stealing money or infomation. There are many other ways that would bear more fruit with less effort.

I've read all about it. Mostly it comes down to some advanced exploits with some targeted interception of shipping sprinkled in.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of any of it under the auspices of the NSA. Especially not domestically.

But there's no way they're doing this on anything resembling a majority of hardware out there. I mean, outside of the risks of being discovered, what does it gain them? Once they have access to your pipe through your isp and content providers there's not much else they need from your computer... unless you specifically catch their interest.

Dude, they are doing it to everyone. Hence the data center in utah. Seriously, it's happening.