Strength will only get you so far in a battle. In a more grounded Man of Steel universe, having more muscle doesnt mean you can take on 5 guys by yourself. The new batman IMO needs to rely heavily on gadgets and brains to come out on top, not just muscle.

Thereīs absolutely no way someone could beat up the kind of opponents Batman faces without having huge strenght. You donīt knockout multiple big and skilled opponents just with speed and technique. You need power. You need strenght. Plus, the amount of damage Batman can sustain is something only a big strong man would be able to do. He needs to be big. No doubt about it. Not like a professional bodybuilder. But he needs to be way above average. And anyone who could do all the things Batman does would be ripped, big and strong.

A real life batman would have a more wiry physique than a hulking one. He'd be more ninja than battering ram.

I think Bruce Lee would actually be a good representation for a more grounded Batman physique.

He also had huge strength without having to look like Lou Ferigno though.

I'm not saying this is how the new Batman should look necessarily but there's nothing about Batman in a more grounded incarnation having to be a huge or "big" guy to be effective.

I donīt see a 170 pound guy destroying opponents the way Batman needs to do. He needs to be a big guy. He needs to be over 220 pounds. Thatīs the only way he can knock people out at will. In a more grounded incarnation he needs to be big. In comics he can be skinny.

I donīt see a 170 pound guy destroying opponents the way Batman needs to do. He needs to be a big guy. He needs to be over 220 pounds. Thatīs the only way he can knock people out at will. In a more grounded incarnation he needs to be big. In comics he can be skinny.

That's exactly what Bruce Lee did though. He was pretty much the closest to a real life superhero we had.

What you're describing in the comics is actually the opposite. Where a Batman who looks like he's 250 lbs is depicted bouncing around a like gymnast.

There's nothing about size that equals being a better fighter. Look at some of the best MMA fighters out there they look nothing like bodybuilders.

That's exactly what Bruce Lee did though. He was pretty much the closest to a real life superhero we had.

What you're describing in the comics is actually the opposite. Where a Batman who looks like he's 250 lbs is depicted bouncing around a like gymnast.

There's nothing about size that equals being a better fighter. Look at some of the best MMA fighters out there they look nothing like bodybuilders.

Thatīs why Batman could never exist. The physicality necessary to beat up anyone easily is different from the one necessary to bounce around buildings. You canīt be both.

In MMA people fight other people from similar weight. And in the lighter divisions knock outs are rare. Fights go the distance most of the time, because most of the lighter guys donīt have that much power.

Batman knocks out mos of his opponents with one blow. I mean, i can only see a big heavyweight being able to do that. Thereīs no way a guy with the build of Bruce would be able to knock out 250 pound man with ease.

Batman knocks out mos of his opponents with one blow. I mean, i can only see a big heavyweight being able to do that. Thereīs no way a guy with the build of Bruce would be able to knock out 250 pound man with ease.

There are many ways. A 250 pound guy who doesn't know how to fight or fight well vs a master fighter at 170-200? i'll take the latter. It's all about angles and pressure points with the strike as well. One well placed strike can bring down almost anybody.

Look in the above example Brock lesnar 265 pounds of muscle watch how he's brought down by one well placed kick to the liver and tumbles like a pile of bricks.

Now someone like bruce leee had one of the most powerful kicks even at his size.

There are many ways. A 250 pound guy who doesn't know how to fight or fight well vs a master fighter at 170-200? i'll take the latter. It's all about angles and pressure points with the strike as well. One well placed strike can bring down almost anybody.

Look in the above example Brock lesnar 265 pounds of muscle watch how he's brought down by one well placed kick to the liver and tumbles like a pile of bricks.

Now someone like bruce leee had one of the most powerful kicks even at his size.

Lol is that a joke? The man invented his own fighting style Jeett Kune Do and is seen as the forefather of Mixed Martial Arts Fighting.

Fight History:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Quote:

Martial artist Bruce Lee was involved in competitive fights. Some by arrangment, some without. Dan Inosanto stated, "There's no doubt in my mind that if Bruce Lee had gone into pro boxing, he could easily have ranked in the top three in the lightweight division or junior-welterweight division."[33]

Lee defeated three-time champion British boxer Gary Elms by way of knockout in the third round in the 1958 Hong Kong Inter-School amateur Boxing Championships by using Wing Chun traps and high/low-level straight punches.[34] Hawkings Cheung, his fellow Wing Chun street fighter, witnessed the event. Lee knocked-out Pu Chung, a Choy Li Fut fighter, in the roof tops of Hong Kong in a 1958 Full-Contact match. The match was refereed by Sheun-Leung Wong.[35][36]

The following year, Lee became a member of the "Tigers of Junction Street," and was involved in numerous gang-related street fights. "In one of his last encounters, while removing his jacket the fellow he was squaring off against sucker punched him and blackened his eye. Bruce flew into a rage and went after him, knocking him out, breaking his opponent's arm. The police were called as a result."[37] The incident took place on a Hong Kong rooftop at 10 P.M. on Wednesday, April 29, 1959.[38]

In 1960 in Seattle, Lee backfisted and broke a man's nose after Lee saw him harassing a Chinese girl while Lee was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile in 1960.[39]

In 1962 Lee knocked out Uechi,a Japanese black belt, in 11 seconds in a 1962 Full-Contact match in Seattle.[40] It was refereed by Jesse Glover[41]. The incident took place in Seattle at a YMCA handball court.[42] Taki Kamura says the battle lasted 10 seconds in contrary to Harts statement.[43] Ed Hart states "The karate man arrived in his gi (uniform), complete with black belt, while Bruce showed up in his street clothes and simply took off his shoes. The fight lasted exactly 11 seconds--I know because I was the time keeper—and Bruce had hit the guy something like 15 times and kicked him once. I thought he'd killed him."[44] The fight ended by Bruce knocking Uechi the length of the gymnasium[45]

In Oakland, California in 1964 at China Town the Chinese community issued an ultimatum to Bruce's dojo to stop teaching non-Chinese[46]. Refusing to be told what to do or to discriminate who is allowed to learn, Lee had been challenged to a combat match with their top fighter Wong Jack Man [47]. The formidable Wong Jack Man had mastery of Xingyiquan, Northern Shaolin, and Tai Chi Chuan while being a direct student of Grand Master Ma Kin Fung. The arrangement was that if Bruce lost he would have to shut down his school, if he won then Bruce would be free to teach Caucasians or anyone else[48]. Wong stated that he requested to fight Lee after Lee issued an open challenge during one of Lee's demonstrations at a Chinatown theater[49]. However, contrary to this claimed motive is the signed formal letter manifested by Dan Chan with signatures by the martial art community, including Chan and Wong, as a petitioned document by the community does not correspond to the motive of responding to an open challenge. "That paper had all the names of the sifu from Chinatown, but they don't scare me." — Bruce Lee[50]
Wong and witness William Chen stated that the fight lasted an unusually long 20-25 minutes[51]. Individuals known to have witnessed the match included Cadwell, James Lee (Bruce Lee's associate, no relation) and William Chen, a teacher of Tai Chi Chuan. According to Bruce, Linda, and James Lee, the fight lasted 3 minutes with a decisive victory for Bruce. "The fight ensued, it was a no holds barred fight, it took three minutes. Bruce got this guy down to the ground and said 'do you give up?' and the man said he gave up." — Linda Lee Cadwell[52]
Reportedly, Wong Jack Man published his own account of the battle in the Chinese Pacific Weekly, a Chinese-language newspaper in San Francisco, which contained another challenge to Lee for a public rematch[53] Lee had no reciprocation to Wong's article nor were there any further public announcements by either, but Lee had continued to teach Caucasians.
Lee's eventual celebrity put him in the path of a number of men who sought to make a name for themselves by causing a confrontation with Lee. A challenger had invaded Lee's private home in Hong Kong by trespassing into the backyard to incite Lee in combat. Lee finished the challenger violently with a kick, infuriated over the home invasion. Describing the incident, Herb Jackson states,
One time one fellow got over that wall, got into his yard and challenged him and he says 'how good are you?' And Bruce was poppin mad. He [Bruce] says 'he gets the idea, this guy, to come and invade my home, my own private home, invade it and challenge me.' He said he got so mad that he gave the hardest kick he ever gave anyone in his life.[54]

Bob Wall, USPK karate champion and co-star in Enter the Dragon, recalled one encounter that transpired after a film extra kept taunting Lee. The extra yelled that Lee was "a movie star, not a martial artist," that he "wasn't much of a fighter." Lee answered his taunts by asking him to jump down from the wall he was sitting on. Wall described Lee's opponent as "a gang-banger type of guy from Hong Kong," a "damned good martial artist," and observed that he was fast, strong, and bigger than Bruce.[55]

This kid was good. He was strong and fast, and he was really trying to punch Bruce's brains in. But Bruce just methodically took him apart.[56] Bruce kept moving so well, this kid couldn't touch him...then all of a sudden, Bruce got him and rammed his ass with the wall and swept him up, proceeding to drop him and plant his knee into his opponent's chest, locked his arm out straight, and nailed him in the face repeatedly." — Bob Wall[57]

Fight with Wong Jack Man

In Oakland, California in 1964 at Chinatown, Lee had a controversial private match with Wong Jack Man, a direct student of Ma Kin Fung known for his mastery of Xingyiquan, Northern Shaolin, and T'ai chi ch'uan. According to Lee, the Chinese community issued an ultimatum to him to stop teaching non-Chinese. When he refused to comply, he was challenged to a combat match with Wong. The arrangement was that if Lee lost, he would have to shut down his school; while if he won, then Lee would be free to teach Caucasians or anyone else.[42] Wong denied this, stating that he requested to fight Lee after Lee issued an open challenge during one of Lee's demonstrations at a Chinatown theatre, and that Wong himself did not discriminate against Caucasians or other non-Chinese.[43] Lee commented, "That paper had all the names of the sifu from Chinatown, but they don't scare me".[44]
Individuals known to have witnessed the match included Cadwell, James Lee (Bruce Lee's associate, no relation), and William Chen, a teacher of T'ai chi ch'uan. Wong and witness William Chen stated that the fight lasted an unusually long 20–25 minutes.[43] According to Bruce Lee, Linda Lee Cadwell, and James Yimm Lee, the fight lasted 3 minutes with a decisive victory for Lee. "The fight ensued, it was a no-holds-barred fight, it took three minutes. Bruce got this guy down to the ground and said 'do you give up?' and the man said he gave up" – Linda Lee Cadwell.[42]
Wong Jack Man published his own account of the battle in the Chinese Pacific Weekly, a Chinese-language newspaper in San Francisco, which contained another challenge to Lee for a public rematch.[43] Lee had no reciprocation to Wong's article, nor were there any further public announcements by either, but Lee had continued to teach Caucasians.

The mere fact you think Bruce Lee didn't fight proves there's no point in even continuing this debate with you.

Lol is that a joke? The man invented his own fighting style Jeett Kune Do and is seen as the forefather of Mixed Martial Fighting.

Fight History:

Then mere fact you think Bruce Lee didn't fight proves there's no point in even continuing this debate with you.

Then show me Bruce Lee beating someone in a tournament. He isnīt tested. Most of the traditional Martial Artists arenīt. There are plenty of "masters" who have never competed. Bruce Lee is just the most popular of all.

There are many ways. A 250 pound guy who doesn't know how to fight or fight well vs a master fighter at 170-200? i'll take the latter. It's all about angles and pressure points with the strike as well. One well placed strike can bring down almost anybody.

Look in the above example Brock lesnar 265 pounds of muscle watch how he's brought down by one well placed kick to the liver and tumbles like a pile of bricks.

Now someone like bruce leee had one of the most powerful kicks even at his size.

Batman beats trained opponents like they were nothing. Iīve seen him destroying a SWAT team with no problems. Iīve seen him destroy high level martial artists like they were amateurs.

And Cain Velasquez was over 240 pounds in the fight. Same weight Batman should have, so it makes sense. He beat one Brock Lesnar. Could he have done the same to 5 Brock Lesnars at the sametime? Batman could have. Thatīs why Batman is a fictional character. He does things no human would ever been able to do.

And iīnot saying a 170 pound canīt beat a 250 pound. Iīm just saying he would not be able to knock them out in seconds like Batman does to the guys he fights.

And thereīs absolutely no way a 170 pound Bruce Lee could kick as hard as Overeem, a 270 pound kickboxer world champion

The man would practice his kicks on 300 lbs punching bags. He had one of the most powerful kicks there was.

I don't understand why you're so convinced that you have to be huge to hit hard? Again Brock Lesnar is a huge man but is a terrible striker with weak hits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuki

Then show me Bruce Lee beating someone in a tournament. He isnīt tested. Most of the traditional Martial Artists arenīt. There are plenty of "masters" who have never competed. Bruce Lee is just the most popular of all.

I just gave you his whole fight history. He rarely competed in tournaments and by the time he became known mainstream he was more a teacher. However his physical feats are very well documented as well as people attesting his fighting skills.

Regardless before this turns into 5 pages of Bruce Lee debate your premise that you have to be 250 lbs to beat somebody 250 lbs is false. Frankly a real Batman would employ survival martial arts such Krav Maga as well, which are specialized to disable sometimes larger physically superior opponents by any means.

The man would practice his kicks on 300 lbs punching bags. He had one of the most powerful kicks there was.

I don't understand why you're so convinced that you have to be huge to hit hard? Again Brock Lesnar is a huge man but is a terrible striker with weak hits.

I just gave you his whole fight history. He rarely competed in tournaments and by the time he became known mainstream he was more a teacher. However his physical feats are very well documented as well as people attesting his fighting skills.

Regardless before this turns into 5 pages of Bruce Lee debate your premise that you have to be 250 lbs to beat somebody 250 lbs is false. Frankly a real Batman would employ survival martial arts such Krav Maga as well, which are specialized to disable sometimes larger physically superior opponents by any means.

Iīve seen plenty of men with well documented "physical feets" getting destroyed in MMA with ease. That means nothing. You have to fight to prove that your skills are legit.

Yes it's like I said, he doesn't need to be a giant. Like brickhouse Hulk. No man would be able to slink and jump and fly around the skies if he was as heavy as a dump truck and as wide as a sumo wrestler. He needs to be as big as however big the actor cast can get in the period of time before shooting. Which will probably be a few months and it doesn't get better than that.

They don't really explain or justify and actor's physique in the movie. Like they did not explain Superman's physique in MOS - they just showed him as a big bad sculpted dude. The offered no rationale behind why he looked this way or how he got his physique or why don't other Kryptonians have as good a physique. They just showed him and that's it.

So the same might be the case with Batman, they'll just show him as a big bad cut mother****er and that will be that, no explanation will be offered as to is his physique practical or not.

Yes it's like I said, he doesn't need to be a giant. Like brickhouse Hulk. No man would be able to slink and jump and fly around the skies if he was as heavy as a dump truck and as wide as a sumo wrestler. He needs to be as big as however big the actor cast can get in the period of time before shooting. Which will probably be a few months and it doesn't get better than that.

That's correct. We can sort of extrapolate what sort of built some of the main candidates may achieve by looking at some of their past roles where they got in shape to get an idea of where they may go.

Just about any body shape could work on Batman if they compensated with choreography and his attack methods. Just look at some of the extrapolations you can form about all the above guys.

If he's skinnier than Cavill and seems more ripped, they could focus on speed and precision.

If he's larger, more of a slugger style with his hits.

If he's in between, boxer.

And for any obvious mismatches, they can always fall back on the obvious: Batman cheats like a ************. He could beat the guy who's larger, faster, stronger, more experienced in a fight. But why do that when he can just string him up like a fish before he even knows they're in the same room?

And if he doesn't look as huge as Cavill, that adds some plausibility to Bruce Wayne not being suspicious.

__________________There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal."

And if he doesn't look as huge as Cavill, that adds some plausibility to Bruce Wayne not being suspicious.

Even if he does, they can hide it, like they did it in MOS with Cavill. The costume designer said they gave him larger baggier and more layered clothes in his Clark Kent scenes and were thus able to hide his physique.

The closest person in real life that would be athletic and muscular as Batman would be wrestler, Rob Van Dam in his prime (6' 230lbs). He was never truly ripped, but he had gymnast type aerial skills along with his kickboxing background. Not to mention the wrestling grappling skills.