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dave brum wrote:But it was lovely to see all those lively hymns we had drummed into us at school that as six and seven year olds we had absolutely idea of the meanings of those words contained therein, except maybe 'the' and 'God'.....

But we probably didn't really worry that we didn't know the meaning, did we? I weas well into my teens before I thought about "God of God, Light of Light, Lo he abhors not the virgin's womb, very god begotten not created", I just sang it; there were at least four words there I didn't know

And as for the verse in O Worship the King, I loved this one: "Thy bountiful care, what tongue can recite, it breathes in the air, it shines in the light, it streams from the hills, it descends to the plain, and sweetly distils in the dew and the rain" And having sung it since I was five, I was probably about nine before I thought that just maybe those words weren't all about a tongue, and oh the amazingly weird images that must have gone through my head!

'Angelic hosts' always gave me a mental picture of a crowd of jellies, for some reason.
Yes, get the Eleanor Franklin Pike - good dependable arrangements of proper hymns! No Mission Praise stuff there, fortunately! I have to be anaesthetised to play out of that book - there are at least five 'songs' which sound as though they should be sung around a grave in a Western...

And he's got it pretty well too, from the sound over the phone (even responded to him by text while my pupil was looking at her sight-reading for the regulation 30 seconds, how's that for multi-tasking and not giving your pupil the attention they're paying for? oops)

It seems so obvious when you've spent years singing from these things. The first time I played at Sunday school at the age of about 13 I think my Dad who was an organist was quite disappointed that I couldn't play four parts straight off, since I had g5 theory and had been taught to play cadences etc from the age of 10; so I went along and played melody and bass lines only for the first couple of weeks. After that I got a bit braver and added either the tenor or the alto part, and within a few weeks I was up to four parts.

Then I started being allowed to play for assembly at school. we used to get a week each and could choose the hymns ourselves. Now, I hated playing in flat keys, and was much happier to read three flats (for instance) as four sharps, since they were on the same lines. I held tremenduus power in Elmhurst Grammar School: we used Songs of Praise which was pretty high pitched to start with, and I had the power to make the whole school sing a semitone higher.

Reading in Eb and playing in E, or vice versa is ever so easy, you just ignore ther key-signature and read the lines and spaces. The only thing you need to look out for is accidentals and even they're easy - flats become naturals and naturals become sharps (or vice versa)

I think the natural is a lovely design. Stick it up against a sharp and it looks like a square flat with an extra droopy bit (oo matron) and stick it up against a sharp and it looks like a sharp with some of its hands in its pockets. Almost forces you to raise/lower in the right direction. Yet it wasn't designed with that in mind.

That would indeed be four hymns, enough for an Anglican or Roman Catholic service. Blaenwern, Hyfrydol, Cwm Rhondda and Monks Gate. Except in the Church of Dave, one can make as many cockups as one likes, stop as often as one likes and keep going over it until one gets it right (to the dismay of the congregation (two cats)) and play out of time. Oh, and cuss like a navvy at will also.

I've actually abandoned Monks Gate, but that version. The version I'm doing battle with now is in Eb major and although I've played that scale and arpeggio loads of times, sight reading in that key is proving more difficult as I have to think 'oh christ, is that an E or an A because I have to flatten those notes'. I'm only used to playing in F where only one flat is required, and only one of my repertoire is in Bb.

More oft than not, I automatically ignore that rule, so the hymn sounds wrong. But, practice makes perfect and I'm going to have to get out of more sight reading/flattening wrong notes/guessing bad habits. Problems problems...

I find also that the A&M is too small, so it would be difficult for either myself, or a member of the dying generation of church organists to read from (how do they cope, if only they probably know most of them off by heart by now)

I've bought it and have tried Aberystwyth, but I'm not learning anything from it until I've done Monk's Gate. Bear in mind I have homework pieces to perfect, and repertoire stuff. Plus when I go back she'll give me....well, I hate to talk negatively but I'll have more of 'those' poxing things to do. Hymns will be a welcome diversion from them!

She'll say 'Right, Let's Have A Look At Your..........(looks at notebook)........##### ####### but it doesn't mar my enjoyment. I'm a musician, not a ##### ######.

So should I learn 'Aber' then as it's one of my faves?? If I asked Mabs she'd probably say the same as you, Gill.

Maybe doing hymns is in itself counter productive as I'm not a member of a church so it's not as if I'll actually get a chance to play them on an organ locally I just like Welsh hymns (I know Monk's Gate isn't Welsh but it's a good tune, and it reminds me of 'Clockwise')

Pun alert, playing the church organ is perhaps a pipe dream, a goal that I don't stand a chance of reaching given my circumstances. But hey, I've at least had a go on three!

Play what you want to or what your teacher suggests, not what some nelly on a forum tells you to. But learning classical 4 part harmony will teach you so much about the construction and nuts and bolts of music you'd be daft not to.

I don't think Mabel's that keen on me learning hymns anyway as it's not in her teaching syllabus. The hymns are something I'm doing of my own accord with quite a lot of inspiration from Helen and yourself!

I had a superb view of the 4 manual Nicholson at Ludlow church being played this week, and it's a cracker. There's a TV camera fixed on the door so he/she knows when the ministers are ready for the start of the processional hymn.

It wasn't an official recital, and he could plainly see I was very interested in the instrument. I thought in between pieces he'd talk to me about the instrument, what it's like to play (it sounds really robust and powerful for one of England's 'Greater Churches') and even, just possibly, offer me a go on it. But nononono.

I shall probably become Birmingham's anonymous church organist if I get confident enough and I conquer my fears of sight reading. 'Oh, I didn't know he played and he only lives a few streets away' on the day the lorry came to take the uninstalled instrument away and the mp3 simulated music system was installed.....

dave brum wrote:It wasn't an official recital, and he could plainly see I was very interested in the instrument. I thought in between pieces he'd talk to me about the instrument, what it's like to play (it sounds really robust and powerful for one of England's 'Greater Churches') and even, just possibly, offer me a go on it. But nononono.

There's this hole under your nose called a gob. You could always open it and ASK.

I've read all the news articles about her, including those on the Daily Hatemail website and she is Director of Music at her local church in Wiltshire. Did you also notice her piano in the same outbuilding and the massive piles of sheet music to the side of it in the clip? (though I would imagine she has a piano in the house also as it looks like a nice house in grounds)

That's the one, without incurring the wrath and anger of the right-wing evangelical zealots.Happy clappy crappy shiny shiny praisey Lordy. I don't know if you're aware of a fundamentalist hymn book called 'Power Praise' but some herbert's attempted to translate it into Welsh. I've seen it and it doesn't translate well at all. 'Grym Mawl' is its enw Cymraeg.

Fundamentalist 'praise and worship songs' are sung at FF's church on one Sunday a month, under the guise of 'Family Service' in which the organ is not used. I guess the Director of Music is relegated to the piano on those Sundays...

That's what I'm trying to do with Monks Gate but the pages are a little bigger (A4), the fingerings are there, you haven't got four lines of music to read and I think it may be too difficult as Mabel didn't say 'try and learn something' so she must know it's a more than a little beyond my Ken at this present time.

I also told her that my friend Helen had said about being ready to play for a Sunday service, but that I only know 4 hymns. 'You need to know more that four hymns!' she says, I know she's not that keen on me doing them.

I sometimes think the arranger of these ancient music books fails to take into account a)the human hand span and b)the fact we only have five fingers on each hand. To do anything from them without looking down and with my level of musical experience is nothing short of impossible. But anyway I need to finish Monks Gate first.

I suppose Mabel thinks learning hymns is irrelevant as I'm not a churchgoer anyway (just a believer in God/Allah). It would be down to a churchwarden to 'put a word in' as I understand it which is why I think I may be building my castles in the air again with my wish to become a church organist. Maybe I should concentrate on something that is within my reach, like becoming a good pianist and allowing Mabel to help me achieve that. I just like Welsh hymns.

She would say no. I know her of old and she really is an evil old cowbag I wouldn't even ask for the time. Honestly I have too many things against me here so why don't I just keep my cakehole shut and stop moaning!!!

I'm ditching the hymns for the time being and just concentrating on the stuff Mabs has given me to do. I hope she can make it up to the organ console at her church today in her zimmer frame. Maybe the vic can carry her!