Both of these run under the assumption that only humans feel **** like "spite" or "revenge"...
Dude, there's other **** around here that does that as well. If a crow can understand attacking a ************ over spite, I'm pretty sure these "advanced alien species" will as well. And the whole "swim in liquids despite breathing air"? C'mon, dude. There are ducks that dive in the ocean, aquatic mammals that beach themselves, and fish that flop over patches of dry land. And what other than our "external manipulators" will we use to kill? Our ******* bellybuttons?
Nah, both these stories just glorify and worship humans over something that isn't really unique to us.

Show me any creature who has what you can legitimately call "arms", and doesn't use it as some sort of weapon. Even if only to swing the claws at the other end. ****** sake, even birds beat ******* around with their wings, despite how essential and fragile they are.
And if a species exists with no predators, why will it evolve? It will evolve because the members of its own species are the actual predators. Even if not for actual attempts of violence, there is always a finite amount of any resource. Including water and breathable air. A planet populated by White-tails would go extinct in the blink of an eye, simply because they would breed out of control and over-tax the planet.
And even if we go beyond that, ignore that evolution would not take that course, ignore the fact that it CAN'T... How are these the first ******* we come into contact with? And vice versa? Hell, I've yet to read a single one of these stories that says we're the first aliens these other species meet. There's always some galactic federation or evil tyrant race every time. And somehow, we're the first species they've met to know guile, petty revenge, deception, determination, or self-sacrifice? Somehow there is an entire galaxy of ************* who are eons ahead of us in a million different ways, but they're baffled and flabbergasted to see someone fight to the last man and survive off scraps like every ******* colony species does?

Tell me what happens when you let a wolf into a pen with a single ram and 7 sheep eh?

I'm going to break this down real simple like

>Race A is expansive and extremely cohesive, they are connected through a shared consciousness, a hive mind. They have developed space capability and weapons to fend off simple predators and to escape their taxed planet.

>Race B,C,D,E,F, developed on peaceful planets and are pacifists by nature.

>Race A moves planet to planet absorbing them as client species because they have no desire or capacity to fight back.

>Race A comes across humans, who are used to centuries of conflict among themselves, using tactics such as unconventional warfare and deception. something Race A through F have never come across on account of their biology.

Hope that's clear enough for ya skidrow.

"Show me any creature who has what you can legitimately call "arms", and doesn't use it as some sort of weapon."

alienshavetohavearmsbecauseIsaidso.bmp

>implying aliens cant be psychic
>implying a psychic creature without suitable appendages would ever consider using their own body as a weapon.

What is the difference between A vs. B-F and Humans Vs. Humans? Seriously, how can a species who has already seen a conquering/colonial species not understand a conquering/colonial species existing elsewhere? Like race A is the only race to ever decide to leave its own planet and take another.
Let us assume it is then. That B-F never knew a race to conquer before A. And A never met resistance before humans... Why do all these stories have species A stomping through like super storm troopers from hell, until they meet the humans? Why would species A be armed to the teeth like these stories always depict them to be? Prepared for some massive battle that only the humans and their can-do attitude can win? Our tactics aren't exactly the most cunning, our famed strategist Sun-Tzu suggests getting the high ground and not letting them make your dudes sad. It always comes down to some genetic factor that we have that the rest of the galaxy cannot even fathom. They can look at us as quaint with our little rocket ships and curiosity, but the second we smack someone for doing harm to us, it's like we're the ******* gods of war and death, despite there already being a ******* death militia marching on the galaxy in the form of species A.

>implying most of these stories don't start with shots being fired from both sides at first contact, followed by a massive influx of reserve hardware and personal from Species A when they realize someone isn't going to take it sitting down

>implying most stories depict us as as gods of death and not as rebels fighting against all odds and reason.

>implying that some species cannot be genetically superior to others, and then learn how to use said advantages over the course of a long, costly war.

I didn't say we came out like gods of war, I said these stories always herald us like we are. The last few paragraphs are always the passive species praising us and our ability to not just get shot and give up like it's the single greatest act of heroism they've ever witnessed or heard about through their own histories.
And if the Fauna of a planet are worth building a space-trekking commando unit, what the **** is so special about the humans? If there is some other species out there that can be pissed off at species A for being on their planet, why is it so spectacular when humans do it? If you jump in a gorilla habitat and get throttled, what makes you think jumping into a human household isn't going to garner a negative response? What reason would the residents of this new hypothetical planet with the dangerous fauna have for killing species A? Would it be territory, hunger, a blatant desire to kill anything and everything?
How would any other species warrant a ******* space armada, without tipping off the rest of the galaxy to the presence of species who don't just sit down and take being invaded?

"And if the Fauna of a planet are worth building a space-trekking commando unit, what the **** is so special about the humans?"

You should look at the difference between sentience and sapience m8

"If there is some other species out there that can be pissed off at species A for being on their planet, why is it so spectacular when humans do it?"

But there wasn't another species that was pissed off at species A for being on their planet, friend. Humans were the first in that scenario, and that is why they are surprising.

"If you jump in a gorilla habitat and get throttled, what makes you think jumping into a human household isn't going to garner a negative response?"

The gorilla isn't going to steal one of your ships and ram it into the exhaust port of a cruiser to avenge its family

"How would any other species warrant a ******* space armada, without tipping off the rest of the galaxy to the presence of species who don't just sit down and take being invaded?"

I think you are trying to ask why wouldn't humans see this massive space armada.
Have you ever considered they might not park their fleet in direct line of sight long enough for us to notice and verify what we are seeing ?

I asked why make space marines if humans were the first resistance they encountered. You posed that there is another planet with killer fauna that would warrant a fleet of ass-kickers before the humans got involved.
So explain to me what sort of fauna can be known to exist, have the desire and ability to kill, and yet not make species B-F believe that there are other species that will kill or destroy for their own motives? Why is the idea of violence so foreign to these species? There is no way for species A to warrant building a space armada to take out what they considered to be a galaxy of Switzerlands. Why take these galactic shock troops around the galaxy to suppress jellyfish people?
I'm not asking how humans weren't aware, I just don't comprehend how these other species somehow can't even fathom the idea of self-sacrifice, or the other half a dozen "specifically human" traits I've rattled off. How is it beyond their understanding? I can buy that they don't participate, that they won't kill themselves over a grudge, but to truly and utterly be dumbfounded by the prospect that someone would? It doesn't make sense that this wise and studious species couldn't grasp the basics of our species psychology. We manage to grasp the psychology of species that can hardly communicate with us (if at all), even if only on some of the more basic channels. But a species completely capable of conversation with us? As in actual cerebral conversation, communication in totale as we as humans know it... And they can't get why we would do some pretty simple ******* things?

Nah, because these stories all try and fail at the same genre.
Sci-fi is best when left when it doesn't break from reality. The fact is, the desire to strike back at those who wrong you is inherent in many species. It's like the rest of the universe has evolved into either the race that attacks because Deus Ex Machina, or the race that has evolved to be a bunch of passive pussies who would have been wiped out if not for the amazing ability of humans to get pissed off.
These little "personal journals from aliens" stories all act as if seeing a species get pissed off is a rare thing. It isn't. It's pretty ******* basic.

>implying alien species can't be cohesive through their biology (I.E. a hive mind) and therefore would be used to centuries of asymmetrical warfare among their own kind
>implying pacifism doesn't exist

Did I say that it can't be fictitious? While you accuse me of ignoring the "fiction" part of sci-fi, I'm accusing you of ignoring the "science" aspect.
I don't doubt there are peaceful aliens out there. There could be a whole ******* planet of peace-loving monks who survive off of nothing but the radiation of the ******* sun and the happiness of the rest of their species.
But these stories all run under the same assumptions
1: We are a new species to this higher order of planets.
2: These other planets are aware and knowledgeable of each other.
3: Another species out there is capable of desiring and acting out the destruction/subjugation of other species.
4: We're the first species they've seen to engage in (insert menial human trait here).
Even if everyone in the galaxy beyond us and the antagonist species are peace-loving blobs from the feel-good nebula, those blobs are aware of the other species. A species who is clearly capable of some amount of malice, or else their conquest wouldn't be that big of a deal.
And not a single one of these human traits that are touted about are even exclusive to humans. Petty vengeance, grudges, pyrrhic victory, going with fight over flight, adrenaline... These all exist in a huge number of species.
The reality, the SCIENCE aspect of science fiction, is what sets the genre apart from high fantasy. I'd buy it if this other alien species only knew us, or if they singled out some trait that would come in handy for most colonizing species, but the fact that they're glorifying us for things that always boil down to "humans aren't the strongest, but gosh darn are they plucky" as if that somehow explains how we end up like the ******* ewoks against the stormtroopers.

This thread is so old I can't even remember the points you're arguing here...
What I was saying (a year ago) was that these stories always run off the assumption that we are the only species capable of something simple and menial. LIke an advanced alien race never saw the advantage of blowing up ships by crashing other ships into them... Somehow entire swaths of intergalactic peaceful aliens exist in fear of a single invading-type alien, yet are astonished by the fact that we are aggressive.
How can you have super-advanced civilizations that have been part of this intergalactic organization longer than we've been using steam, but somehow have them blinded to the basic ideas like "they don't care how many die, as long as they win" or "victory means more than death" or "freedom is more important than life"?
Seriously though, a year after the fact? How the hell did you even find this comment thread?

The one story about adrenaline - I buy that one. It's a chemical compound that other species from non-aggressive ecosystems may never have come across naturally or otherwise. But sacrifice for others of the same species isn't something that could be unobservable. I can understand if we come across a planet of peaceful teddy bears and have them be astounded by our ********. But these stories always have some super-powerful aggressor. So these species know that aggression, self-centered behavior, and **** like that exists. None of the traits ever described are ever so special that only humans have it, yet the aliens all sit in awe as we show these traits. That's my issue.
The comment you replied to in the first place is almost a year old... Even if this content made it to the front page, how would my comment even be findable?

There are plenty of good ones. I just can't get into the ones that follow the format:
"Humans showed up. HOW CUTE!!!"
"Oh no, not mean planet invaders!"
"The humans are helping, but we're still losing!"
"Oh, wait, nevermind. The humans won despite all odds because ___"

>Implying that some humans are incapable of only acting according to rational thought due to disease or birth defect
>implying this advanced Warlike species can't have developed without the ability for irrational reasoning much like these "flawed" humans

>implying they wouldn't be flabbergasted by a hail-mary play that has almost no real chance of succeeding because it flies in the face of everything they are able to comprehend

What is so irrational and awe-inspiring about fighting over the last scrap of food?
What is so ******* unexpected about a species not wanting to be brought into the fold? Did the warlike race seriously not anticipate there ever being another race that would nut-up and tell them to **** off? These are space-travelling beings capable of siegecraft across at least one galaxy... They aren't some unaware neolithic caveman who sharpens a stick and can't anticipate someone throwing a rock at their skull when they start stabbing people.
And none of these stories even HAVE a hail-mary play. They just say the same ********:
"Humans showed up. HOW CUTE!!!"
"Oh no, not mean planet invaders!"
"The humans are helping, but we're still losing!"
"Oh, wait, nevermind. The humans won despite all odds because ___"
Where ____ is always some basic ******* aspect about humans that anything composed of more than a singular cell is likely to be capable of.

Those first two fall under the points I made in the other conversation we're having. How are we the only species that doesn't want to get ****** for survival? Would you take a daily dicking for your dinner? I wouldn't. And I doubt the rest of the sentient galaxy is on board with the "let's get ****** by space conquering" train either.
Show me the actual hail mary play. Show me. Give me a screencap that isn't just "the humans somehow managed to pull through, despite the odds." stretched over a paragraph. Give me the details, and I'll give you that point. Because every time I see these threads, it is always beyond vague. It is always the opposition randomly giving up for reasons never divulged beyond "the humans pulled it off".
I've never seen a giraffe build a spear, but I've seen a crab rip off its own arm. I've seen a dog collapse a hole to make prey run out the other side. I've seen a fish push other fish into a filter intake repeatedly. I've watched cows gather together and stomp to ensure the demise of whatever spooked them. I've watched dozens of animals devise a dozen ways each to kill other animals. Whether it be out of territorial drive, impressing the opposite sex, survival, or pure sociopathic spite, other species know how to kill themselves and other species. It's not a terribly difficult concept to most species.

>implying that because you wouldn't take a daily dicking, nothing else would

" I've seen a dog collapse a hole to make prey run out the other side. I've seen a fish push other fish into a filter intake repeatedly. I've watched cows gather together and stomp to ensure the demise of whatever spooked them. I've watched dozens of animals devise a dozen ways each to kill other animals. Whether it be out of territorial drive, impressing the opposite sex, survival, or pure sociopathic spite, other species know how to kill themselves and other species. It's not a terribly difficult concept to most species."

All examples you listed were from earth which we already established was a hostile enviroment, well suited for the development of violent creatures

As for the hail-mary play I am looking for the one about contingency 11, which is by far my favorite piece.

if any other users are reading this and happen to have it feel free to post it while i look

Post it, and I'll give you that point. Show me one glimmering example of exactly how humans end up on top of the entire war, not just one encounter or battle, and I'll concede.
But all I've ever seen were specifics, like you mentioned driving a ship into the engine of another. But all these plans end up costing the humans ships on a 1:1 ratio, and that's only the best of them. Put that with the fact that these stories always have us outnumbered immensely, and I really can't make the jump from there to victory for the humans.

Touching, but that didn't seem like one of these intergalactic war tunes I'm complaining of. I'll concede it to you, but truly, that wasn't a game changing victory by the sounds of things. Not on the scope that the stories usually tell. "The whole galaxy, waiting in fear for the tyrant invaders, but somehow the humans push them back."