So, I've been playing D&D 5th edition for this last year and, even though I am not tempted to log back in WoW, I still miss it's world.

But, I've been checking my Warcraft RPG books and it really doesn't feel like Warcraft. The Warrior has bonus feats every two levels exactly like the Fighter in D&D 3rd Edition, there's a Barbarian class in Warcraft RPG which really doesn't fit since there's no Barbarian Class in WoW and etc. You get my point.

So, I started getting these ideas of if we would adapt the WoW game the most loyal possible way to the game we have all known and loved. And since 5th Edition is still new and could go for a couple years at least, I was thinking of doing it in the 5th Edition rules. The Class archetypes fits well also (Paladin would have Ret, Prot, Holy archetypes. Priest Disc, Holy and Shadow. Warrior Arms, Fury and Prot, Etc).

In these Archetypes, we could easily include the abilities we know (Subtlety Archetype Rogues would get abilities only subtlety Rogues can use, same for Frost Mages, etc).

Professions could be included also as special skills which would be trained (like in game) and would give a good way of spending gold you'd amass while playing (which I've seen many plaints that players now have less way of spending their money, the whole profession system would help that).

Talents could be feats since in the MMO, they do say that it would adds flavor to your class without it being a requirement to play it. And that's what feats does, adds flavor to a character.

As for spells, an almagam of both D&D and WoW of doing it (class that uses mana in game would have some of their abilities changed into spells).

Anyone would be interested in working out something like this with me? If we get a lot of people, we could separate the tasks and cover more grounds. (could even set up a vent/teamspeak/mumble/etc to allow easier and faster exchange of ideas).

Strictly speaking, the barbarian class did appear in the writeups of Grom Hellscream and other major NPCs (see Shadows and Light)--but your point is very clear. I did perform my modest conversion from 3.5 to Pathfinder, and developed a lot of houserules that are a bit...difficult to convert to 5e. That said, since I began playing 5e (my region is quite dry in the roleplaying department), I have begun thinking about making newer (and 5e'd) versions of the ideas. I am interested. We can (after writing up our ideas in this forum), post the results in a Googledocs document and link it here (and in interested areas).

Since you are the opening poster, I am under your command.

What should we start on first? There are many areas to tackle:1. Skills and Professions (gathering skills (skinning, mining, etc.); item creation (blacksmithing, engineering, etc.)2. Powers (new spells derived from the original game, a mana system)3. Classes (and specializations or archetypes)4. Mechanics (anything that doesn't fit above).

If you are co-writing this, could it be an idea to use google drive or something, so you can easily add to eachothers work? Also allows us to keep up to date without having to download a new version every few days.

Very good. I've done my own work previously. Here are my thoughts:We take the 5e rules as a baseline, and modify features as appropriate. I do have a way to recreate the WoWRPG's technology rules in 5e, but they will need adjustment.

Stoneform. You can activate Stoneform as a reaction. If you do, you remove all bleed effects, and gain ad-vantage on saving throws against poison, diseases, curses, and you have resistance against poison damage, and gain resistance versus weapon damage. This bonus remains for one round, and can be used once per day per proficiency bonus.

1st level Dwarves can thus use it 2/day, up to a maximum of 6/day. Subraces: Hill Dwarves are Wildhammer dwarves, and lose the bonus hit point feature, but instead gain advantage to all Animal Handling checks. Mountain Dwarves are Ironforge dwarves, and lose the proficiency in armor, and reduce their bonus to Strength by 1. They instead gain proficiency with firearms and explosives (to be detailed later).

B. Elves lose trance and fey ancestry, and get advantage to any skill checks related to magical items, lore, and spells. They also gain Elven Combat Training (Longsword, Longbow, Shortbow, and Rapier as proficient). Subraces:High Elves retain their bonus to Intellect and their Extra Language ability, but instead gain High Magic, losing Cantrip.

High Magic. You know one cantrip from the Wizard spell list. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the detect magic spell once per day. When you reach 5th level, you can also cast the silence spell once per day. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for these spells. Both spells can be cast without referring to a spellbook if they are cast ritually.

Note: I am of the opinion that the Silence spell could be transformed to target a single creature (or grid), and act on duration, which will act as Arcane Torrent. What do you guys think?

Shadowmeld. When you have concealment stemming from natural dim light, you gain advantage on Stealth checks.

Nature Resistance. You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage.

C. Forest gnomes do not exist in Azeroth, and are promptly forgotten. Rock gnomes are (by default) the only gnome subrace. They gain advantage on all checks to escape bonds, grapples, and other movement-restricting effects and abilities. The tinker ability is replaced with proficiency in Intelligence (Engineering). Engineering is a special skill that is detailed later when we address skills. It is very useful.

Ability Score Increase. Your Strength increases by 2 and your Wisdom by 1. Age. Minotaurs age and mature at about the same rate as humans.Alignment. The majority of the tauren race chooses a more neutral and peaceful outlook on life.Size. Minotaurs are much larger than other races, reaching heights over seven foot by maturity and weighing well over 300 pounds. Your size is medium, however.Speed. You have a base walking speed of 30 feet.Gore. You can use your action to make a gore attack with your horns. It is a melee natural attack that deals 1d8 piercing damage.Self Mastery. you have Proficiency in either Wisdom (Nature) or Wisdom (Perception).Labyrinthine Recall. You have advantage when making Intelligence checks to recall any path you have traveled.Goring Charge. If you move at least 10 feet straight toward a target and hit it with your gore attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 1d6 damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed up to 10 feet away and be knocked prone. The DC for the save is 8 + your Strength modifier + proficiency bonus.Languages. Common, Taur-ahe.

H. Trolls use the entry for half-orcs, but gain +2 Dexterity instead of Strength, and keep the +1 to Constitution. They lose Relentless Endurance, and gain Rapid Healing.

Rapid Healing. When you rest a short or long rest, you gain double the normal benefit from resting.

I. Goblins use the entry for Gnomes, but lose Gnome Cunning, and gain proficiency in the Alchemy skill atop their normal bonus to Engineering. Alchemy is also a skill that will be expounded on later.

DwarfWe could name the subraces by the Clans they represent: Bronzebeard, Wildhammer, DarkIron, etc etc (which would give us room for future subraces in expansion books if we ever get there).Love what you did with Stoneform. Could format the wording to: Last until the start of your next turn (similar to the Shield spell).For Hill (Wildhammer) Dwarves, I'd change the Animal Handling advantage to Proficiency.

ElfAdvantage seems a bit strong but could easily give them Proficiency in Arcana and History.High Elves could be our Blood Elves? Do we include them now or wait and release them later with Draeni in a future conversion?High Magic is cool and I agree with your note about the Silence Spell to replace Arcane Torrent (they work the same way anyways). Let's keep it like the spell works.

ForsakenI'd raise the healing gained from canibalize, something like equal to the character level instead of proficiency bonus. Like that, it's not overpowered but not to weak as a level 20 character would completely disregard it.

TaurenNot sure if we should switch the ability score bonus. Always felt like Tauren had a preference for Wisdom instead of Strength.Personally, I'd take out Labyrinth recall. It's to much Minotaur'ish and change Self Mastery to reflect more the relation the Tauren has with the nature. I'd keep the proficiency with Int (Nature) as the knowledge and give a bonus to the Herbalism skill that we will work out later.

Yeah, for Age, we can easily use the existing 3rd Edition Warcraft as for standard rules. It's not something that really changed in 5th Edition (except maybe for the stats change as you get older, don't recall seeing any of this in my PHB 5th).

High Elves could be our Blood Elves? Do we include them now or wait and release them later with Draeni in a future conversion?

Future conversion, I'd say.

I'd raise the healing gained from canibalize, something like equal to the character level instead of proficiency bonus.

Or in keeping with the trend set by trolls, Cannibalize can give them the benefits of a short rest whenever they cannibalize on creatures. For this purpose, they can 'rest' twice as much as normal so long as they have edible corpses.

Cannibalism: You require consuming a corpse of a natural creature (cannot be undead, construct, or outsider), to gain the benefits of a short and long rest. After finishing a meal, you may spend one or more Hit Dice at the end of a short rest, up to twice the character’s maximum number of Hit Dice. A creature may be cannibalized once before being reduced to a skeleton.

Good healing in this case, but since they are undead and cannot be normally healed, this is a good compromise. They don't gain double the benefit as trolls, but gain double the pool of hit dice. Pretty similar, but this allows for them to gain more hit points throughout the day due to the soft limit on rests/day before a long rest.

Not sure if we should switch the ability score bonus. Always felt like Tauren had a preference for Wisdom instead of Strength.Personally, I'd take out Labyrinth recall. It's to much Minotaur'ish and change Self Mastery to reflect more the relation the Tauren has with the nature. I'd keep the proficiency with Int (Nature) as the knowledge and give a bonus to the Herbalism skill that we will work out later.

The strength just reflects their builds. I am wary of making them large creatures or giving them the benefits of being large. As for Labyrinth recall: Despite the name, it is simply very good travel memory. Since tauren are nomadic, I didn't change the entry. But if you want something more special, we can give them proficiency with Alchemy, but only when derived from herbs.

On Silence: Since it is a concentration spell, it could be devastating. I am thinking of a single-target effect, duration 1 minute, with a hit points limit (as Sleep; 5d8) instead of Concentration, as a level 2 spell.

@Mcgeneral: I neglected copying over the age tidbit. Good catch. As djmove said, we can apply WoWRPG's age instead.

djmove wrote:Anyone would be interested in working out something like this with me? If we get a lot of people, we could separate the tasks and cover more grounds. (could even set up a vent/teamspeak/mumble/etc to allow easier and faster exchange of ideas).

Let me know what you guys think.

Hi Djmove. Welcome to The Piazza!

I'm not playing 5th Edition D&D myself, so I doubt I could contribute much, but I do like to see people converting campaign settings to new rulesets, so I wish you (and Arrius Nideal) all the best in your conversion attempt.

I did put on my global moderator hat and give this topic a redirect from the D&D 5th Edition forum. Hopefully that will bring in a bit of extra traffic.

As a new member to The Piazza, you might want to go and say hi to the general community in the Introduce yourself here topic (in The Philosopher's Stone). It is up to you, what you say, but if you mention that you like 5e and WoW: RPG, you could maybe get a few extra people interested in this topic.

There is also a forum feature called a "Signature" that appears at the bottom of every post you make. Perhaps you might want to add one yourself, so that you can add links to this topic and/or your Alpha document on Google Docs. That way, if you ever want to write about stuff in other topics, in this forum, the 5e forum, or another part of The Piazza, people would be able to use any of your posts to find the link to this project.

Mcgeneral wrote:If you are co-writing this, could it be an idea to use google drive or something, so you can easily add to eachothers work? Also allows us to keep up to date without having to download a new version every few days.

djmove wrote:High Elves could be our Blood Elves? Do we include them now or wait and release them later with Draeni in a future conversion?

Future conversion, I'd say.

I would concur with Arrius Nideal here.

I've tried to do conversions myself, in the past, and got bogged down with details.

I think that, from a logistical point of view, it would be an advantage to make your project as small as possible. If you look at some of the Quickstart freebies that come out on Free RPG day, they are all very small, and don't go into a ton of detail, but they allow people to start playing.

If you keep your project as small as you can, that will help you finish as fast as possible. And once you have a 5th Edition Quickstart Guide published for World of Warcraft, it will allow people to start playing 5th Edition World of Warcraft.

That doesn't mean that I think you should limit yourselves to only ever doing a quickstart, but if you make a quickstart, the 5e WoW player base can start to get off the ground, while you look at the next level you need to get to. (And if you get groups playing 5e WoW, you might find that encourages other people to write a bit of 5e material for their own games.)

I agree tremendously that the 5e subclass system is well-suited for the world: one of the things the WoW d20 did right was focus on giving interesting and variable class features, and the 5e design scheme goes along with that as well as including numerous points to tinker.

Adapting the races would be reasonably easy. I would suggest Forsaken can only spend Hit Dice whenever they take 1 minute to devour a corpse. That would give them a slightly different resting mechanic but probably not unbalanced compared with their peers; it also explains why they're so violent. I went through and tweaked some of them a bit on the Google Drive doc. There's notably not a space for subraces at the moment, and several races are missing.

The easiest method to adapt the tabletop would be to make WoW variants for the existing classes, homebrewing new classes only where necessary. Sure, it won't be a completely faithful conversion, but it's a lot easier to suggest some new features for existing classes than making and balancing all new ones. Besides, some of the MMO doesn't work well as tabletop anyway, so it's about replicating the feel of the setting. Off-hand, the Warlock and Shaman probably need their own thing (Demon Hunter may as well, though...5e Warlock might be a good chassis). Otherwise, I can see ways to make basically all of the others work within the current class structure. A Tinker class would be very nice to put together as well--I loved its inclusion in the WoW: RPG book. (I was actually already considering homebrewing this for 5e.)

Big Mac, when you talk about a "Quickstart" document, what do you have in mind? A quick "make these changes if you'd like to run WoW in 5e" document? What does that need to look like? What would it include?

We've covered most of the races. I advocate that humans (and races we did not discuss) don't need changes otherwise. As for classes, we are actually very fortunate with the class loadout in 5e. Most abilities given to classes can either fall under feats (such as Warrior's shouts, bleeding attack/cleave, etc.), spells (Arcane Blast/Barrage/Holy Light/Divine Shield), or a single altered class feature (auras for paladins). The cases which need the most detail are the optional/supplementary systems, biggest of which are the following:1. Technology rules2. Mana/alternative magic rules and alternative casting 3. Alchemy rules4. Special rules specific to the Warcraftverse.

Once races are finished, we will move on to Skills, since they are usually the most extensive and developed mechanics.

@Ivellius: "We will persevere."-Blood Elves

I loved its inclusion in the WoW: RPG book. (I was actually already considering homebrewing this for 5e.)

That is great to hear. Your contribution will be very appreciated when we move to that point.

It works out to having a bit fewer spells, but the increased flexibility by not using spell slots should outweigh this. For full casters, they have a couple of levels (16 and 18) where they don't even gain spell slots. If you really want to hold to the spirit of 5e, it might be better to not use mana points for anything over 6th level and just have your 8th / 9th level spells be a single-use ability (20-min. cooldown type abilities).

Anything like a Paladin Smite, for instance (which might be replaced by auras anyway), requires spending points equal to the spell slot cost. Does make it a bit wonky in places, but I'm not sure there's a way around it.

All right. I've been working on the conversion document, and I've made a lot of progress.

djmove, I will post it in a separate thread. Big Mac, can we get it stick and locked so only I may edit it? Any suggestions, additions, etc. will be discussed here, and that thread will contain the link to the document (on my Google Drive).

Great. What have you been working on?We're pretty much finished with races and skills (added professions in the document).I've also been working on equipment (added Paladin's greathammer and early guns/bombs/gadgets). Monster and spells stats should come later.

But as for now, we can work on spells and classes. Can we get some ideas rolling?

Changes to existing classes: Paladin; Ranger; WarlockI've removed the paladin auras from 5e, and added the classical auras from WoW: Devotion (2), Might (6), Retribution (10), Concentration (14), and Resistance (18). They are described in the document. Rangers can lose spellcasting and gain Engineering. If they already have it (such as by being gnomes or goblins), they gain expertise in it. Warlocks gain Imps at level 1, Voidwalkers at level 5, Fel Hounds at level 9, Succubi at level 13, and Felguards at level 17. We do not have stat blocks for Voidwalkers, Fel Hounds, and Felguards, however.

I got a comment on the 5e conversion document in my signature. It addressed three topics:1. Dark Iron subrace2. Human subraces3. Forsaken should heal

To the topics, I have the following responses. They are open to comment and/or criticism.

1. Dark Irons are actually coming in a future expansion. We'll address them once the current project is more polished. Any suggestions on how their abilities should work are welcome. 2. Human subraces are more political than mechanical. The Worgen curse acts like a template rather than a race, so it is also for future address.3. As for Forsaken being able to heal--they benefit from undead powers, and there is the acolyte cleric power that allows for undead to be healed with the cure wounds and similar spells. I don't think they should be able to heal from magic if they can heal more efficiently from something else.

To the topics, I have the following responses. They are open to comment and/or criticism.

1. Dark Irons are actually coming in a future expansion. We'll address them once the current project is more polished. Any suggestions on how their abilities should work are welcome. 2. Human subraces are more political than mechanical. The Worgen curse acts like a template rather than a race, so it is also for future address.3. As for Forsaken being able to heal--they benefit from undead powers, and there is the acolyte cleric power that allows for undead to be healed with the cure wounds and similar spells. I don't think they should be able to heal from magic if they can heal more efficiently from something else.

Ok so i see where you are coming from from the first two points, but the third i absolutely do not agree with. Yes healing spells do say they do not affect undead but that's taken that the player itself is not an undead race. To force the player to only heal during short/long rests with there racial or to rely on alchemy to heal them, or having to force them to take a specific class in order to heal themselves or another ally whose undead seems counter productive to what 5th edition is. Your are going off WORLD of WARCRAFT for god sakes in the game you can heal the undead player race so why should you be restricted from it in the tabletop?

I would like to add my take on the player classes. These are all home brew and i have yet to test any so the features and number "Will" need to be tweaked as they are most likely on the much stronger side of things. Keep in mind this a rough draft of the classes any changes or fixes anyone sees is most welcome and not all of them are finished and some one be till the later expansion.These are done by going off other homebrews and by using the actual wow class abilities from Vanilla-WOD

grimm wrote:Ok so i see where you are coming from from the first two points, but the third i absolutely do not agree with. Yes healing spells do say they do not affect undead but that's taken that the player itself is not an undead race. To force the player to only heal during short/long rests with there racial or to rely on alchemy to heal them, or having to force them to take a specific class in order to heal themselves or another ally whose undead seems counter productive to what 5th edition is. Your are going off WORLD of WARCRAFT for god sakes in the game you can heal the undead player race so why should you be restricted from it in the tabletop?

Several reasons: 1. Lore: The Holy Light heals the living, and harms the undead, and is assumed to be the healing energy behind Cure Wounds. Lore-wise, the Forsaken heal each other with alchemy, and literally burn up when they are healed. 2. Mechanics: In Warcraft 3.5, the Forsaken could not heal from Cure Light Wounds, Holy Light, or any other iteration of healing spells, and could only be healed by Death Coil, Inflict Wounds, etc. 3. Tradition: The Paladins' ability to call down Holy Light on an enemy and kill ghosts is already lacking--priests and paladins being able to heal undead goes against high fantasy traditions.4. Forsaken already get alchemy for free.

That said, you raise a valid concern, especially since Trolls may heal almost as soon with no penalty. Therefore, I have added the Holy Light and Death Coil Spells, and modified Cure and Inflict Wounds as so:Cure Wounds heals 1d8+attribute for the living, and harms the undead and fiends for the same amount as Radiant damage. Inflict Wounds heals 1d8+attribute for undead and fiends, and harms the living for the same amount of as Necrotic damage.Holy Light and Death Coil are 2nd-level spells that act as Cure Wounds, but are on a range of 30 ft., scaling a tad behind the two original Cure and Inflict Wounds.

All such changes are up in the document. As for the classes, I will check them out. Thanks!