Today marks the 30th anniversary of Phish. On this occasion, Relix sat down with Phish lyricist, Tom Marshall to discuss his recent work collaborating with Trey Anastasio on songs which appeared in the second set of the Halloween show in Atlantic City, featuring all new material and titled Wingsuit. Marshall was there on that night, as he has often been throughout their 30 years, and he talks about that extraordinary set, as well as his own part in the magical process. Click here for a conversation with Tom that spans his working relationship with Trey.

RR: What did you think of the second set on Halloween in Atlantic City, where, with one exception, Phish presented an entire set of new music, featuring songs to be recorded on their new album, Wingsuit?

TM: My Halloween was so interesting. I sat down, at first, in my assigned seats in the first set, and didnâ€™t have really a good seat. Something didnâ€™t feel right about it, and I wasnâ€™t around the right people or something. But, then, a friend of mine called me, and asked me to come over to his seat. It was behind the soundboard and straight on. I was so glad because the sound is so much better, and everything is so much better. When the second set started, I was in this perfect sweet spot of sound. I had never heard those songs. I heard the four that I had involvement in, but I was as taken by surprise as anyone in the room, and I was just so incrediblyâ€¦just the words to â€śWingsuitâ€ť completely blew me away, and put me in this amazing mood. I was feeling like the magic is happening again in a way. I talked to a bunch of older Phish headsâ€”a couple of friends of mine that have been around; I remember 1993, 1994, 1995, weâ€™d see each other at West Coast shows, and weâ€™d say, â€śI wonder how long we can keep saying Phish is getting better and better?â€ť Every time weâ€™d see each other, they were just getting better and better as a band. Inevitably, some kind of peak happens, but I was feeling that kind of magic again [on Halloween], and I was so incredibly excited. Plus, the fact that the band, themselves, are as good friends as they were when they met and formed Phish. They are tighter, and you can hear it in the cohesion of their music and everything. It was just a phenomenal night. It was such a great presentation, and, by far, my favorite Halloween ever.

RR: What I found humorous was that everyone was complaining about the fact that Phish didnâ€™t have any new material for quite some time over the last few years, so they head into Atlantic City, and everyone is expecting a cover album, of course. That was a gutsy move. And, weâ€™re in an era where there are no secrets, but Wingsuit was on lockdown until people arrived, and they were handed the Phishbill.

TM: Itâ€™s amazing. I canâ€™t believe that there was a certain allowed Tea Party-type minority of people who were angry. I couldnâ€™t believe it. Waitâ€”you people were asking for new material. Youâ€™re telling me you would have preferred Goodbye Yellow Brick Road or Eat a Peach? I mean, come on. (laughter) There was a backlash, but, finally, the backlash against the backlash drowned out the haters. This feeling emerged that Phish pissed off the right people. I love that. (laughter)

RR: Letâ€™s talk about the Wingsuit songs that you collaborated on with Trey, which were included in the second set in Atlantic City on Halloween. Letâ€™s start with â€śMonica,â€ť which was the first Anastasio/Marshall song played in the Wingsuit set.

TM: â€śSanta Monicaâ€ť was written around a fire pit at Treyâ€™s house. It was just the two of us there, and we were throwing out funny little word play things and trying to fit them into this framework that we had. We were calling it â€śSanta Monica,â€ť which, in my mind, was about the city in California. When we sang it, we started laughing when we were calling the antagonist Saint Monica, like â€śsing Saint Monica, sing your song,â€ť and so we were going to call the song â€śSanta Monica,â€ť and call the woman Saint Monica. Every little verse that we came up with I was trying to make Trey laugh with a play on words: you lift me up, you hired me, then cut me off at the knees, defeatedme. Every answer had some sort of tiny, little double meaning. Trey came up with from your ivory tower, inspired me. We were just cracking up. I think the reason that became just â€śMonicaâ€ť was because, I believe it was a production decision, when Bob Ezrin just said, â€śWhatâ€™s up with this saint?â€ť Because no longer was Santa included as in Santa Monica. It sort of became â€śMonica,â€ť and just as Saint Monica doesnâ€™t make sense, sing sing Saint Monica doesnâ€™t make sense, and that part of the joke never made it into the final song. It just became sing sing Monica, and the song was just called â€śMonica.â€ť

RR: â€śDevotion to a Dreamâ€ťâ€”is it fair to say that relates to marriages, relationships, or a bond that may be broken in some way, or am I way off base?

TM: You are not way off base. That relates to the dissolving relationship place where I find myself writing from, and, maybe, the reason that I have been able to save my relationship is that if I put it on paper then it doesnâ€™t happen, then it doesnâ€™t come true in real life. (laughs) It possibly came from that point. But, it is also that I donâ€™t necessarily feel that I am writing about me when I write those, but I am writing from a person that I can emphasize with that is in a relationship that is falling apart.

RR: And when did you write that?

TM: Itâ€™s interesting that you say that. That one could have been written in 1990 by me.

RR: 1990?

TM: Yeah. So, hereâ€™s the history of that one. In the very first version of my band, Amfibian I think that surfaced as a lyric to a song intended to sing, and I donâ€™t think it ever even made it on the live stage. That was put in forever into these sheets of lyrics. I circled it, and brought it with me to many songwriting sessions, and it kind of never got glanced at for about 15 years. I finally looked back in time, recycled it and said, â€śHey, we havenâ€™t used this yet.â€ť And that is just kind of how it isâ€”I always come over-prepared with a lot of song ideas when I go write with Trey, and, so, at any given moment, in a weekend, if we have written ten songs, there might be 20 song pieces that never really got

looked at, but, for whatever reason, Iâ€™ve been carrying this one around for a while. I do not think anyone knows that.

RR: What did you think of the song when it was performed on Halloween? Obviously, it will take on a life of its own in the future.

TM: Well, I really like how there is a second part to it sang by Mike [Gordon] and Page [McConnell] have a call and answer, a secondary person. Itâ€™s really really great. I really like it, and I was really impressed with Pageâ€™s ability and Mikeâ€™s ability to learn lyrics really fast because that was completely verbatim. I was even thinking, as I was listening to it on Halloween, â€śHoly shit, how does he do it?â€ť I was looking at Page because he was definitely confidently leading the other two through some rough lyrical moments. I think I was the only person in the audience that might have known that there is a difficult lyrical part coming up, and I just watched Page confidently sail and navigate those waters. I was always impressed by Trey. I would read him a poem and he doesnâ€™t even have to see it. I read it to him, and sing a verse, and all it takes is for him to sing it once, and then, heâ€™s got it. Three weeks later, heâ€™ll remember it. Heâ€™ll say, â€śHow about blah blah blah?â€ť Meanwhile, I have completely forgotten it. If it is not on the paper in front of me, itâ€™s gone. But Trey, Page, and Mike have this unbelievable and uncanny miracle to me of memorizing words. I guess itâ€™s their job. (laughs)

RR: â€śWinterqueenâ€ťâ€”the Northeast seasonal vibe, written along with â€śFrost.â€ť It has a mythical tone to it, like some of your other lyrical passages. Fascinating song.

TM: Right. Thank you. That was a TAB song, just that one time, and was written for Treyâ€™s Traveler album. I think â€śFrostâ€ť and â€śWinterqueenâ€ť were tried at the same time by TAB, and â€śFrostâ€ť emerged as the favorite, and the one that made it to the album. â€śWinterqueenâ€ť was not forgotten, but was not played again for a while. We wrote both of those songs about three years ago. For that one, it was written to Trey coming up with a new guitar chord pattern and singing it and that just came to me as he was playing guitar.

RR: â€śAmidst the Peals of Laughter.â€ť There are some interesting references to Jack and Jill, but it also relates to being a drone in a work environment. I am sure we can all relate to it, but it definitely saddens me that you felt you wasted so much time while working in that type of drone-like existence. Was it cathartic to write it?

TM: I think so. It was cathartic at the time to write it, as it certainly contains memories of a darker time, which were revealed when I wrote it. It reminded me of being in a dark place. You know how that is. It is written from a happier place now, but when you are in a dark place like that, you donâ€™t see that there is a possible way out. In some hopeful part of me, I am thinking that, maybe, I could tell, or steer, someone out of their drone state, and possibly I could help them. I donâ€™t know. Itâ€™s also a narrative from my past.

Jack and Jill. It sounds like a childhood nursery rhyme and it is all happy and everything:

â€śDaddyâ€™s going off to work!" And mom and the kids all smile and the kids grab their lunch boxes and get in the school bus. We're in a rut, it's a big problem we face. It is really society forcing these drones to be drones and I was trying to draw the metaphor. Jack and Jill, you know, someone told them to go up the hill and get that pail of water. It wasnâ€™t like, â€śHey, weâ€™re just skipping happily along, and we are going to go and check out this hill now.â€ť (laughs) It was just an occupational hazard where Jack fell down and he cracked his skull open: â€śOh, too bad. Heâ€™s just a drone; someone else will get the next pail of water. Bring the honey to the queen, fertilize those eggs...it doesn't matter if you cave your head in, just that it gets done.â€ť It means something sinister in society when our tasks define us, become more important than us.

Comments

I’ll go out on a limb and say that I would have preferred Eat a Peach or Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

By peachhead - 12/02/13

Absolutely LOVED the wingsuit set! So glad they did Wingsuit instead of some random cover album.

GREAT JOB PHISH!

By coredweller - 12/02/13

both those albums are pathetic and archaic and boring and outdated

By bradsands - 12/02/13

peachhead: noob

By bradsands - 12/02/13

Eat a peach is pathetic….riiiiight

By Ice - 12/02/13

I’m curious as to the average age of the people commenting here.

By Mr. Blood - 12/02/13

Much much prefer the new music to a cover of some old raggedy album!

By Roger - 12/02/13

I was thoroughly ‘satisfied’ not blown away from the plethora of new music that evening but knew it wouldn’t be judged until re listen. Upon re listen. WOW. The risk they took picking this was understood from the get-go but the quality of almost all of these songs and the manner in which they were delivered made this a truly, truly special night.

By MrPalmer - 12/02/13

WE WANT NEW MATERIAL!!!!!

WHY THE HELL ARE THEY PLAYING NEW MATERIAL???

By bender - 12/02/13

I want them to play this
I want them to play that….

...so many divided camps

In one single moment The Phish placed every single person in that room on an equal playing field… And they NAILED it!!!! No Noobs, No wooks, just Phamily. One big dancing vibrating Phamily. Perfection.

Thank you, Boys.

By Stacie Field. age 41 - 12/02/13

Phish would have been the “drones” Tom references here if they had delivered yet another batch of over-played rock tunes from another, forgotten era. Wingsuit proves that Phish still “gets it”, maybe some people need to go back and re-listen to the opening song from MSG last year?

By Chris - 12/02/13

Great new stuff played amazingly well!!!

By Mitch - 12/02/13

Anyone who had a problem w/ the new material being played instead of a covers album: Please stop coming to shows. You’re stinking up my section.

By Juju - 12/02/13

I would have liked to have heard an album cover. After listening to the show 4 times, I only dig a few of the songs, and that’s lukewarm at best. Just my opinion, sorry to stink up the section

By Yep, age 34 - 12/02/13

Hey JUJU perhaps people should have been notified that the “classic album” as hinted in Rolling Stone was not coming to fruition this year. That’s the only complaint I have so I could have planned on not attending.

By Truth 41 yrs - 12/02/13

I remember very clearly a rumor posted on, I think, phish.net to the effect that ‘this year’s halloween would not be a conventional cover.’ Since the poster was fairly ‘sourcey,’ as they say, I, for one, was not expecting a conventional cover. When I saw that the show would be webcast, I *knew* that it wouldn’t be. (Ever hear of licensing? Phish couldn’t come up with enough scratch to video broadcast Eat a Peach or Goodbye Yellow Brick Road). I had no idea what would be played, but I was totally geeked when I learned it would be their new album. I think it was an incredibly ballsy move, but one that made perfect sense. Phish has been doing this sort of thing fo years. I was at 31 May 1995 in Lowell, when they debuted a ton of songs, and no one knew what the f**k they were, but everyone was happy. Younger phans these days just don’t have the patience and respect to let things unfold the way they’re going to. Surrender to the flow, young jedis; you’ll be much happier for it. And thanks, Tom, for such a thoughtful and eloquent interview. Even though you are Trey’s collaborator and one of his best friends, I am forever touched by the fact that you are also just another super-excited, geeky Phish fan. Hope to see you at MSG

By happyhappy - 12/02/13

PS: Age 48. First show 1991.

By happyhappy - 12/02/13

Not sure why Mr. Marshall needed to bring the Tea Party into it. I support the tea Party and the teachings of Icculus, and I loved 10 out of 12 Wingsuit songs. Peals and Winterqueen were not among them.

By Marshall Blathers - 12/03/13

I found it ironic walking to the venue thinking I’m going to see my favorite band but I’d rather hear them play someone else’s album instead of their own new material. I don’t think I’ve ever heard them play a cover I didn’t like and they’ve turned me on to several bands through their many many covers over the years. I wouldn’t say they are drones when they play covers. They own those covers.

They sound tighter than ever. They have amazing jams but I can’t think of any new batch of songs I’ve been crazy about since Undermind was released. I haven’t loved an album since Round Room. I find myself at shows wishing they would stop singing and just play.

It was a very gutsy move, a very phish-like move, somewhat expected, I’m sure they had a laugh about people that were upset that they paid $250 to see phish play someone else’s music, I’m happy others liked it, Wombat was great, I liked a few others, would’ve rather heard a cover of Eat a Peach, props for the Garden Party reference @chris, agreed, can’t wait for NYC and to see how the new songs evolve.