I'm trying to pull trains in Coral Keep, but this is just generally for any zone I am trying to solo in...I have been told things such as "well you must be doing it wrong" or "your tactic is prob wrong" etc etc...so I'm asking for a kind SK who has had a lot of practice with this kind of exping to explain it step by step (I am only 1.4k AA and fairly geared at about 32k hp and 5.2k ac unbuffed...I should be able to work a swarm strategy for a zone like this though.

If someone is willing to walk it through step by step so I understand what tactics you use, what resources you use, and what I should not do also it'd really be great.

One thing they don't mention is that swarm killing is highly dependent on a good 2h weapon. If you got a nice raid 2h from tower or whatever you will do much better than if you are using something in the group game.

I wont claim to be an expert at it, but basicly ....

Stack up all the DS you can muster. Find lots of mobs and piss them off. Find a corner to back into. AE hate so your pet doesnt get killed. Click epic and hope mortal coil has kicked in before it ends. Attack on, engage pet. Toss on a couple DoTs, pop first spire, cycle thru all the mobs tossing on a couple DoTs then move to the next one. At this point you are dealing lots of damage in riposite, which should also be healing you via epic click, mortal coil, or leechcurse disc if it is looking really ugly. DoT stacking on 3 or 5 or 9 mobs is also dps, especially if you have first spire running.

The trick to it is to find mobs you kill fast enough that you can keep mortal coil up the whole time, and give good exp. With a good raid weapon, your melee dps and healing from it goes up and more challenging zones (Vald, FC, etc ...) can be done. If you are using a group weapon ... might be better off fighting lower lvl mobs. Also, find a place with enough mobs. If you spent 5 minutes waiting on respawn, you are in the wrong spot.

My example of this is RSS. Yeah, its not great, but neither is my 2h weapon. I pull 4 - 9 at a time, clear the big zone in room, all the corridors on that floor, then the big zone in room again before lesson fades. Nets me about 7 AA or so. Experiment, find what place works best for you. Silvery two handed axe should get me out of RSS soon and looking for a better place. :)

If you are pulling trains, you are swarm killing. If you arent making 10 AA doing it ... well, you probably arent a full tower geared SK with 6K + Ac and a bad ass weapon. Finding a good spot to fight in and not getting ping pong summoned by 9 mobs will be the difference between a nice chunk of exp in a couple mins, or winding up in the guild lobby with rez effects. Hehehehe

And use all the tricks you have. Should be able to get in HT twice in a lesson burn, as well as LT. Spire twice, or 3 if you time it just right. Swarm pets, DS potion, DD proc from the fang you get in the LON scenario. Use the click on your BP, AC tap with challenge, steadfast servant etc ... throw it all in the mix for that half hour of burn. And if you found yourself at no risk at all, well you picked a spot too easy. Make it fun, push the limits of what you can do. Worst case scenario ... you pop a merc in GL and rez yourself. Oh, and I find it helps to scroll out slightly in 3rd person, if mobs get behind you, it hurts more. Strafe around as needed to keep them all in front of you.

As I said, I dont claim to be an expert, but that will get you pointed in the right direction at least.

You shouldnt need to AEhate unless you typically get pushed out of melee range where they will turn on your pet.
Also: its better to pop first spire when you have the most dots possible already applied to mobs, instead of applying them slowly after you first spire. I prefer to use Plague of Karanas with a splash of assidious impurity, due to their cheapness.
I'm sure some places you may not have the luxury of being able to cycle dots on your swarm, and may be busy lifetapping, or trying to burn down a few in the pack to lighten the heat on you.

Keeping an eye on Malarian skin, and using your BP clicks in case it fades before the spell refreshes.
I also like to throw up a shield and cast lesson as my pull is starting to come into camp, to gain that extra few minute it takes to round up your first pull, on lesson, ideally you would pop it as mobs start to die, depending on circumstances this may or may no be possible.

As Kralthan said, a good 2 hander. It may seem obvious, but the riposte AAs as well do wonders to help out.

don't use dots while swarm killing. the whole point is pulling more than 1 light blue mob to take advantage of DS and riposte damage while keeping the incoming DPS to a point where your self healing keeps you alive and you aren't burning mana. basically use epic click at the beginning since that is when the mobs have the most DPS on you, and pray for a mortal coil proc before epic wears off. If no mortal coil proc use hot pots and taps to fill in the gap. The pet dies too easily to be of much use with swarm killing when you pull large trains.
you just need to figure out what size pull works best for you. as you get more AA and better gear you can increase the pull sizes.

I'm usually around 1800ish+ DPS with just auto attack on with a 2 hander against a light blue, but with a train on me I am doing anywhere from 2800 to 4500 DPS. with epic click i'm healing myself somewhere in the neighborhood of 2400 to 3800 HP per second

__________________Victory over Frodlin, Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:15 pm.
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don't use dots while swarm killing. the whole point is pulling more than 1 light blue mob to take advantage of DS and riposte damage while keeping the incoming DPS to a point where your self healing keeps you alive and you aren't burning mana. basically use epic click at the beginning since that is when the mobs have the most DPS on you, and pray for a mortal coil proc before epic wears off. If no mortal coil proc use hot pots and taps to fill in the gap.

Yes, you want to maximize use of DS and riposte while swarm killing, but laying on a couple of the zero cast time DOTs also adds DPS. You want to keep some mana in reserve for taps when you just can't seem to get a mortal coil proc and both epic and leechcurse are down, but you don't lose swings, so may as well get some use out of that mana.

I'll usually run around tagging mobs with a dot when I am pulling my train, as I hunt in a spot that isn't Explosion of Hate freindly. While I am fighting, if my health is OK (mortal coil or epic are on) and it looks like my mana is on track to last the LOTD, I'll cycle through mobs on a bigger pull and lay a second dot on some.

Quote:

The pet dies too easily to be of much use with swarm killing when you pull large trains.

Individual mileage may vary. Depending on where you hunt, Goner can last a pretty long time. Key is making sure that he is on hold until all the mobs are in melee range of you (don't send him in when some caster is a ways off casting, or Goner will suicide against the caster), and repositioning as necessary so no mobs have only Goner in melee range.

I generally buff up and pocket one pet, then buff up and start with a second. When I started serious swarm pulling, I use to lose both Goner and Jabober within 15 minutes; now I usually have my original pet at the end of LOTD and rarely lose both. Just takes some practice.

The AAs will mount up. I had about 1100 AA when SoD came out. Just making an effort to do LOTD at least five times a week, and getting maybe an extra 50 AA during bonus weekends total over the year (wife faction > EQ), I'm around 2900 AA and running out of stuff to buy - and I'm not one of those whizzes getting 10-12 AA per LOTD.

If your pet is important to you then it might be worthwhile to gear it up with bazaar gear. If that's too much of a hassle then any defiant gear you pick up will help your pet out. No you won't see that much of a difference with say one pair of elegant defiant chain boots versus a naked pet but every little bit helps.

I have found hitting spire and using life taps or dots to burn the first few while epic is running so as to increase the likelyhood of a MC proc helps a ton.

If I can get an MC off before epic wears off and I have enough mobs I can roll through stuff pretty quick for almost no mana (lifetaping through the last four or five because MC doesn't proc again heehe).

For example when I am PLing my ranger I can pull 20-30 mobs (I am decently geared, not top top but solid and soulpiercer for 2h) in direwind. If I don't get an MC proc before 2.0 and BP it can get a little hairy with those numbers hehe. I have found pulling and then hitting aa horse (when you can) and then epic is very effective for mitigating some of the interupts on my spells from push.

Basically its balls to the wall boys pulling. I think I was pulling 6-10 in valdeholme when I had slightly more hp and signifiantly less ac than you. I was using 2.0 with two damage augs as my 2hander ;/

Edit: Btw I never use pet, hate trying to keep that bitch alive with 20 mobs on me. Chattering Bones is sexy though.

You shouldn't really rely on MC but I am VERY impatient so I pull large enough pulls that if I don't get an MC proc it is likely that I will get stunned or pushed before I can get a life tap off hehe. In places like direwind I literally pull all the gnolls/golems then all the griffons then all the gnolls above the griffons with some mushrooms. Usually I will get repops soon after mushrooms are dead so I might grab a few oozes just to keep busy. As has been stated though mileage may very. The point is to push your abilities to the limits to get as many mobs on you as possible so your DS and riposte rape them. Towards the end all you are doing (if you pull enough) is hititng auto attack and watching them drop immediately after you target them hehe.

also, one little quirk to note - this is highly dependent on the content and to what extent you're swarming... but a mob that only has prox aggro on you will disengage from chasing you after a fairly shortly distance.
if you're running around a moderately sized (or larger) zone trying to gather up 20+ mobs, if you don't hit each one in some way, via melee or spells, they'll only chase you for a little ways before wandering off.

so depending on how and where you're doing it, it can be a very good idea to plink mobs with arrows - even if you miss, or don't have magic arrows, the fact you engaged them directly means they'll stick with you anywhere you go, so long as you don't get too far ahead of them.

also, one little quirk to note - this is highly dependent on the content and to what extent you're swarming... but a mob that only has prox aggro on you will disengage from chasing you after a fairly shortly distance.
if you're running around a moderately sized (or larger) zone trying to gather up 20+ mobs, if you don't hit each one in some way, via melee or spells, they'll only chase you for a little ways before wandering off.

so depending on how and where you're doing it, it can be a very good idea to plink mobs with arrows - even if you miss, or don't have magic arrows, the fact you engaged them directly means they'll stick with you anywhere you go, so long as you don't get too far ahead of them.

Yeah I forgot about mentioning that.

I usually run up and use cycle npc as I run by and hit taunt or kick as I pass by for non-summoning mobs.

With the summoners... well... I hate em >.< I use proximity aggro and the aa aggro for it. I gather a bunch (running in tight circles) and bunch em then hit the aa and keep running to the next bunch, rinse and repeat. It takes longer but I can avoid getting hit and or hitting them and getting summoned. I may have to try the bow and arrow thing - never really use my bow tbh.