I'm seeing a trend of people treating younger kids of narcissists badly--teenagers post here about a problem with their Nparent, maybe just a case of unfairness they wanted to vent about, and it's like the "Always Assume a Context of Abuse" rule just gets thrown out the freaking window. Someone (several someones, actually) said that my 18-year-old boyfriend wasn't a baby anymore and should be able to pay his own expensive dental bills (he's working 30 hours a week and in college that he's paying for) while his mom bought a $700 TV and a ton of expensive makeup. 15 year old gets literally starved for having sex? "They shouldn't have been having sex in the first place," says a comment.

What the fuck. Didn't you guys hate that when you were teens? Complaining about something your Nparent did and getting told you were just being a dramatic teenager, you were just whining about being punished, and you got what you deserved because you did x thing?

It seems a lot of people have forgotten that feeling.

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EDIT: Woah. I did not expect this to blow up like it did. Thank you for weighing in. And to the people who gave me Silver, thank you! I'm in the process of reading everyone's comments, and they're still rolling in, but I'll try to reply here and there. Take care, guys!

I'm seeing a trend of people treating younger kids of narcissists badly--teenagers post here about a problem with their Nparent, maybe just a case of unfairness they wanted to vent about, and it's like the "Always Assume a Context of Abuse" rule just gets thrown out the freaking window. Someone (several someones, actually) said that my 18-year-old boyfriend wasn't a baby anymore and should be able to pay his own expensive dental bills (he's working 30 hours a week and in college that he's paying for) while his mom bought a $700 TV and a ton of expensive makeup. 15 year old gets literally starved for having sex? "They shouldn't have been having sex in the first place," says a comment.

I haven’t forgotten. The fact that I was abused wasn’t taken seriously by anyone until I was in my 30s. People think young people are just complaining, and their parents are doing the best they can. There is a societal assumption that we will all grow up and understand our parents choices. Then when we don’t, people are more willing to believe that we were abused. Also, the older we get the better we get at articulating our own family dysfunction.

It's really frustrating. And when you're talking about the minor things, things that occur alongside the big things but hurt just as much, you're not taken seriously because it isn't as bad as what others have experienced. Know what I mean?

My own emother said this just two days ago. Completely disregarding the fact that I was berated relentlessly, called atrocious names, had motives projected on me as a preteen of vindictive and malicious nature, and told that all of their problems stemmed from me even though I didn't do literally anything and had no freedom to do anything that was even remotely bad. While she sat there in the background doing nothing and when he threatened to kick me out or to leave then she'd harm herself so everyone would unite to fix her. But she doesn't understand why I refuse to bring my family around. At least bruises and broken bones heal.

I’m in that place now- at least if the abuse took a more physical form, I’d have some way of confirming that it’s real. The internal marks finally showing up on the outside, or something like that.

The rational side of me knows that’s ridiculous, but that doesn’t stop me from wishing that sometimes she’d just beat me and get it over with, instead of leaving me with this insidious pain that manages to make me feel like the bad person.

It wouldn'thave mattered. Often, I was physically abused: being pushed into windowsills/furniture/down stairs, had things thrown at me, kicked, grabbed by the arms and "spanked" with a frat paddle/ping pong paddle/hair brush, etc. I had bruises but can all be chalked into bruises kids get from playing or discipline.

Yeah that's the messed up part. I know it wouldn't have changed anything. But my grandma is only now admitting my mom has problems. I just wish she'd admitted it when I was going through it, and not waited until mom turned on my kid and started the same pattern of behavior with my LO too.

But she admits it now, which is helping to break the cycle. I wish mom's siblings would admit it too, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Yeah so that's one reason I'm never talking to her again. My kid told us stuff about mom's bf that sounds suspiciously like grooming, and its triggered this flood of memories. We reported them to the cops/CPS, and while I had no intention of talking to her again I've doubled down on that. There is no situation in which this behavior is ok.

I have reason to believe she did it, for drugs. I don't remember enough to say who did it, but I do remember enough to think it happened, and that it wasn't my dad because I remember them fighting over something that sounded like that.

Granted while dad told her he hated it and it was all her fault, he didn't do anything to stop it.

My mom just had my sister beat me up with impunity, then punished me for defending myself against it, and she tried to murder me every single day. That was when they weren't ganging up on me and lying about me for hours.

My mom wouldn't let me wash my clothing when they were dirty, and then teased me for my smells. It was pretty mean name calling and she took joy from telling me I smelled.

This forensic psychology years later I guess is useful to make us feel less bad about going onwards in life, without them in our "clan". We have the right to find a "clan" to join where we feel as safe as possible, and a range of mammals have been doing it for a long time.

It is a testament to how bad the abuse is that we are willing to risk going it alone over being unsafe in the only group we ever belonged to.

Thank you. I understand the sentiment expressed, but it drives me crazy reading things like "at least those bruises/scars would fade" as if A) physical abuse takes place in some weird, otherwise nurturing environment of love and support, and B) physical abuse doesn't also have a terrifying psychological element.

I have literal scars that serve as "proof" and it makes no difference. The people who get it, get it. The people who defend parents at all costs will do so in the face of ANYTHING you show or say to the contrary.

I've never yet seen someone say "I wish I'd been sexually abused, at least then I'd be taken seriously"

Experiencing physical violence as a child does nothing to help a person. Nor does it get you more help or sympathy or understanding in later life. It's just another set of traumas to overcome.

As another person in their thirties still processing this shit, I remember thinking this all the time as a kid. Hell, sometimes I still think this now. If she had hit me, think I would've taken my own abuse more seriously rather than just thinking that I was weaker than everyone else.

If I complain about the emotional abuse, or the super strict conditions of my childhood that left me with NO social skills, unable to maintain a relationship and crippled my ability to be a successful person, I get the "oh boo hoo, everyone had strict parents." blah nonsense.

Then I look at them in the eye and say "Oh, but there was one time he held me against the wall by my neck, strangled me and whipped me with his belt until I bled." and they get all uncomfortable. Often they realise that what I was complaining about was just one small part of a giant tapestry of abuse that did include getting punched.

But the physical abuse didn't affect me much. It was the emotional abuse that destroyed my self confidence and gave me depression. It was the isolation and lack of proper parenting that made me unable to function well in society. And yet no one takes them seriously.

I know what you're talking about. My dad was obsessed with guns. He had 30-80 at different times throughout my life. He would get drunk. (Daily) At least twice a week his drinking turned to extreme violence. On 4 separate occasions he held us hostage for 2 or 3 days at a time. He would get drunk and start preaching about God and it would go from that into abusing my mom. Then when we would come to her aid, he beat us. (That happened constantly) (the hostage situations only a few times.) Then he would get his guns out and start cleaning them and it would devolve into holding us hostage. Honestly I knew this was not normal but it was my normal. With a million other things. When I met my husband I realized just how fucked up things really were/are with my family. They still admit doing no wrong. And the way I was raised I am not able to bring it up or talk about it. I've only talked about it a few times in my life. Even typing it here seems like a betrayal but it happened. All of my shitty childhood happened. Living in the car on 3 separate occasions. Going to 20 different schools because we got evicted everywhere. My dad couldn't hold a job and he would go to my moms jobs to fight with her and get her fired. Twice she had to quit cause his abuse of my bro and I was so bad she feared for our lives. Hell when I was 10 and my bro was 8 he made us walk 26 miles to my moms work. (We got there right when she hot off work). We walked her entire shift. 12 hours. People offered us rides and my dad screamed at them. We ended up with blisters on our feet so severely that we couldnt go to school for over a week and she couldnt take us to dr. For fear if losing us. It was awful. We couldnt walk for days. She quit because of that. That whole walk was because he wanted to yell at her. Cause he got the eviction notice right after she left for work. I could tell so many stories. No one ever helped us. Even though lots of people knew what was going on.

Yes, the greatest damage is the resulting lack of social skills. The lack of a healthy role model for being an adult, for being in relationship to others. This is the lasting damage that is so pervasive and life altering. The physical abuse is limited to the years it was endured. The other shit goes on hurting forever. Very hard not to pass some of it on as well to your own kids. This deep brain imprint is hard to be aware of at all times. Lack of trust, inability to resolve conflict in healthy ways, expecting to be hurt, the list goes on. What is the original root cause of this hideous generational legacy?

Eh, depends. My dad and stepmom called DCFS on my mom when she ripped a handful of hair out of my head on my 15th birthday. My uncle, who's a cop btw, screamed at me over the phone, "I don't care if she beats you with a 2×4, she's your mother and you respect her." He also said they got it worse as kids, as if that justifies it.

She had also previously hit me with various household objects, her fists, yanked and dragged me up the stairs by my shirt collar, and kicked me. All treated the same.

My dad threatens to kill me atleast once a week and he does hit me, but even I usually get disregarded because hes my dad. "He doesnt even mean to hurt you, he just does because of your attitude. It's your fault for provoking him."

Trust me, all ends of the spectrum take hard blows when they've done nothing to deserve it.

Honestly, I completely understand you. However, from the experience of physical abuse, people still don’t take you seriously (I haven’t told many but of those I have, I haven’t had great reactions). I know the feeling that maybe if we suffered more people would listen to us and believe us, but they don’t. The truth is, people that haven’t been through it scarcely ever understand regardless of the severity of the trauma we suffered. It’s best just to seek advice and comfort from those who have been through it. That’s why I like this sub so much. Sorry if this was kind of morbid, but I didn’t want you to keep holding on to a belief that would only cause you sadness. I hope you’re in better circumstances now :)

Weirdly enough, even my own siblings who suffered through it will now sort of discount how severe it was. I suppose as a way to protect their image of themselves.. like to be beaten implies you deserved it.

When I was younger and in the middle of my abuse from my NMom, I've since moved, but at the time I would even ask her to hit me physically instead of what she's doing to me emotionally and psychologically...that's how sick and tired I was of the mental abuse!
Not only is it easier to get help for physical abuse but I personally prefer it to anything that is mental/emotional/psychological abuse...
I moght be weird but, my body heals quite quickly and gets tougher, but my Mind takes a long time to heal and the more it get hit, the weaker it becomes...
Again, that might only go for me, but I'm only speaking for myself anyways...
Just my 2cents from (very) personal experiences...

Removed. This person is speaking from their own experience. (A quick look at their post history will confirm that they have been physically abused.) You can disagree with their opinion, but please do not cross the line into telling other people how to feel.

I was physically abused by my father who is mentally ill. (My mom is the narcissist) but everyone knew, and no one did shit. My dad has been in prison multiple times for shooting people and assaulting people. People KNEW what he did to us. How he beat us and no one called anyone or did shit to save us. I know at least 40 people knew for sure from witnessing it. He didn't care where we were or who we were in front of. For some crazy ass reason people respected him. He was very moral in all other areas I guess. You know except for drinking, doing drugs, beating my mom and us kids. People see what they want I guess. I dont know. People dont even care if you're being physically abused I guess.

I agree! My NMom's abuse wasn't taken seriously until I arrived on my grandparents doorstep covered in bruises. It's easier to see abuse when it's physical. My GC brother on the other hand was severely neglected and parentified our NMom and no one sees that abuse, not even him because he is constantly praised for it by her. He is older and still doesn't understand that expecting your child to take care of themselves at 5 is neglect and letting your kid drop out of school at 14 is illegal in the state that we lived in but she couldn't be bothered to make sure he got to school. She sure as hell made sure that he got to work on time though, and collected every paycheck for "bills". By 16 he took over managing the bills to prevent them from being homeless every three months and was giving her an allowance but everyone seems fine with that because he is sooooo responsible and helps out his mom. Nope, he was neglected and abused. Just because she didn't hit him doesn't mean that she was being a good parent.

if the abuse had been physical it would be taken a lot more seriously.

Or sexual. I 'only' experienced emotional abuse, the kind that people can't see and I was once dismissed so harshly by a sexual abuse survivor for wanting to move on and forgive my abusers (I think she was obviously still hurting but to dismiss my experience as lesser than hers simply because I didn't want to live in negativity is...something).

I feel the same way - there would at least be some evidence then. Don't get me wrong, I was occasionally physically abused, just not ER level - lots of kids accepted that as normal back then. I grew up in a family where nobody was allowed to have emotions except Nmom, of course. Her feelings were of utmost importance (to her). The whole family did such horrible, manipulative, cruel things to me and I only realized it was abuse when I became an adult.

As an adult, they banded together to show their disdain of me once and for all (I'm the SG) with secret maneuvers and shit-talking me, ignoring my existence, breaking promises, using me and kicking me when I was down. I came to the realization that they don't love me and never did. That is indescribably painful...

I've tried to explain it to friends by saying that if they all stood in a line and took turns, one by one, stabbing me in the heart, it would've hurt less. And as a bonus, I'd at least have a way to show the extended family what monsters they actually are. Instead, I'm cast out and they are enjoying being the "good ones" and martyrs, with their lies and manipulation, no doubt about that. And all I'm left with is this massive ache. Their continuous lies will be believed and my truth will be buried beneath those lies forever.

That’s crazy, I can’t stand it when people react like that. I think physical and emotional abuse are equally as traumatic and I don’t agree when people downplay any kind of experience that threatened someone else’s well-being or sense of self. Mental health is just as important as physical health and vice versa. My nmom physically abused me along with the emotional abuse but the emotional abuse was the hardest to prove, which made it even more devastating. When people downplay other people’s experiences, I just see the complete ignorance in that person. That’s why I’ve learned to just keep my abusive memories and interpretations of those memories to just my therapist and with the friends I have who actually understand.

I have a friend who was severely abused as a teenager, but feels guilty about it because he was browbeaten into thinking he shouldn't feel upset about it because "other people have it worse."

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This is what I tell him when he says that. It doesn't matter if other people have worse problems. These particular ones are yours, and you have every right to be upset about them. They are a big deal to you, because you are going through them. It's not fair to compare your problems to other people's because those other people can't deal with them for you.

Not even then, OP. My mother pulled the classic "Oh, he's just accident prone!" or "I'm just a weak woman, how can control him? Poor me!" bullshit any time someone wondered why I always had some injury.

That drives me nuts, when women take advantage of the social preconception that they're weak or harmless to abuse others. My Nmom weighed about 110 lbs soaking wet for my entire life but you can bet your bottom dollar she left more physical and psychological bruising than you could shake a stick at.

And the excuses. Indeed, classic. And despicable. Hugs from a tiny man angry on your behalf, if you want them.

I recently explained some of the abuse that my n dad did to me before he moved out. Years of emotional and mental abuse, no physical abuse though. The person that I was explaining this to, as the reason why I am no contact with him, and do not want him around my children at all ever, their response was, and I quote, "but he is your dad, he loves you".

I actually got angry, and I told this person that I just explained a bunch of abuse to you, things that he has done for years, and now he's trying to do them to the rest of the family, but we're just supposed to excuse abuse because he's a parent. Years of abuse should not be ignored because of a legal document or genes. I don't think these people ever considered that maybe, just maybe, there may be a reason that a majority of somebody's family will not associate or talk to them. I have some stories, maybe ones I'll type out later. It's a difficult thing for me to talk about, as with most abuse, because the more I talk about it, the more I remember other things that he had done, that my brain had blocked out.

This is one of the people that I suspect are making side trips when they take my children, to go and visit him. I have brought this concern up with my wife, and while she does not think it's happening, she has seen how I have been treated by him though, So she doesn't want our children around him either.

I'm very close to getting a order of protection, also known as a restraining order, so that he can never be around my children.

Narcissist I don't believe are capable of love. My wife and I are actually considering changing our last name from my family name to hers. This would be the ultimate snub to him, as his name would not carry on, but he always made a point of saying it was super important to

Best of luck on your restraining order, my friend. You're doing a good thing keeping your kids safe. As for the person you suspect is making side trips, I'd just grey rock them, make sure you're not giving them info that could be used as Nsupply or ammo against you, but I'm sure you know to do that.

The name change is a great idea. My partner and I are waiting to get married until I finish grad school, but we've agreed we want a name that's our own, not from either family of ours (Nparents on both sides).

Wish I could. Need her to babysit, as I work 18h a day, and my wife also works full time. The only real way I would be able to find out is if she says it. Its a suspicion, but my wife does not think she would.

make sure you're not giving them info that could be used as Nsupply or ammo against you

He does not have that anymore anyways, I have literally cut him out of my life in nearly all aspects. I ran into the ndad about a month ago at the post office. He asked why I haven't called him, or why I haven't made any efforts to contact him. Like its my fault you are an asshole. I just simply told him that I don't want to talk to him and moved on, ignoring his presence. He moved back to our town some time ago, and has even taken the step of calling his ex wife(my mom), who he also abused emotionally and financially until their divorce. The one thing he has threatened is trying to get grandparental rights of visitation thru the courts, which he did successfully to my brothers first daughter. So far, he hasn't done that, but I now make enough that paying for a lawyer would be well worth it, and getting the order of protection before he files would almost certainly get it thrown out. I doubt he would, the local news paper loves to make fun of him.

Wait a second... Either I'm not understanding you or I realllly don't agree. To clarify, I was saying when you're an adult who was abused, when you tell people about the abuse, they assume you weren't actually abused, you're just being a rebellious teenager who never grew up, and you don't understand that your parents had good reason to treat you like that, and it wasn't really that bad. Am I understanding you right that you're saying that what they're saying is accurate? Or am I totally reading your comment wrong?

My point is that "growing up" often denotes a person who has STOPPED growing and has found a dissociative state in which they are comfortable. An example is rich families where the children become part of the family business and, while financially comfortable, never really heal their deeper issues and just perpetuate more pain.

It's very normalized to accept abuse as love, suppress the pain, and dissociate from the pain in various destructive ways.

What we deserved as children was nothing less than to be loved authentically for the very one we were. Anything less is abuse.

emotionally mature and experienced people will listen, the rest just use you as an outlet to pass on the mindf*ckery that their own parents laid on them, because they refused to ever even attempt to deal with it. We kids of narcissists have to take care to protect ourselves from Flying Monkey Enabler types everywhere we go... even when we're safely free of the ones we're related to.

Am 26, stepparent STILL assumes positive intent on the part of a specific N relative whom I’ve cut out. Have spent around an hour arguing about it with me essentially saying “It’s not worth it to me to have him in my life, and I’m happier for not speaking to him.” Over, and over.

I still have this problem with a few family members. I remind them of previous conversations we've had and ask them if they remember what I told them. Then I go, "Ok, so you understand what I've already told you. I am not interested in repeating myself again. We are not going to agree and that's ok too."

I have the feeling sometimes that it's not that they don't understand what you are telling, and that if they read it in an article or book they would think it's totally unacceptable and feel sympathy, it's that when they hear something from someone they know - who seems functional - often about someone they know - they just don't want to believe it.

So they go into counter mode - "this is only one side of the story" "this is probably exaggerated" "this is probably a one off mistake on the part of someone quite loving" etc etc.

It took me ages to realise the reason I kept trying to prove my case to people like this was because of my internal battle with myself. I partly didn't believe it myself because of all my mum's gaslighting.

l now try to see it as "you can trust my judgement and memory or not, but don't expect me to value you as a friend/relative anymore if you don't". It's a struggle but an easier one than trying to prove your case to someone who is reacting based on an emotional desire to disbelieve.

I have the feeling sometimes that it's not that they don't understand what you are telling, and that if they read it in an article or book they would think it's totally unacceptable and feel sympathy, it's that when they hear something from someone they know - who seems functional - often about someone they know - they just don't want to believe it.

So they go into counter mode - "this is only one side of the story" "this is probably exaggerated" "this is probably a one off mistake on the part of someone quite loving" etc etc.

It took me ages to realise the reason I kept trying to prove my case to people like this was because of my internal battle with myself. I partly didn't believe it myself because of all my mum's gaslighting.

l now try to see it as "you can trust my judgement and memory or not, but don't expect me to value you as a friend/relative anymore if you don't". It's a struggle but an easier one than trying to prove your case to someone who is reacting based on an emotional desire to disbelieve.

I hate this societal assumption. And then I have to take a step back and realise why I hate it. People say things like "my mum/dad was harsh as a kid but now I realise that was for my own good". And I cringe, and my hackles go up.

But for a healthy parent/child relationship, their version of harsh/strict probably WAS okay. Mine wasn't. And I bristle at the assumption I should just grow up and "get it now". I even started down that road in my early 20's, of being like "she did it for my own good". I'm heading into my 30's now and suddenly being screamed at, belittled, hit, and kicked isn't seeming so "for my own good" after all.

But for a healthy parent/child relationship, their version of harsh/strict probably WAS okay.

I had wonderful parents. And until I became a young adult and entered a relationship with a narc, I had no idea. I was so naive about assuming other people's good intentions that I missed every red narc flag that was flying.

And for years I felt guilty about leaving that relationship because back then, the internet wasn't there to let me know I wasn't the bad person, he was. I love this sub because it let me see and process what a narc is.

I am so sorry for the harm that narc parents do to their kids because until I saw for myself the family that boyfriend came from, I had no idea people could treat each other like these people did. Boy, did I learn.

I do admit, sometimes I see a post here from a youngster, and think, hmmm. Is this really narc behavior, or a kid that's looking to validate their own bad behavior? But this is a support sub, and if I can't be supportive I do my best to not interfere.

Too often the abuse ends up being real. And if it isn't, kids can still get advice, and maybe some perspective on their own lives.

Yes, exactly this. Those who were fortunate enough to not have abusive parents growing up cannot comprehend our experiences. Their version of "harsh parenting" is the heathy parenting version (where the actions and punishments were reasonable), not the abusive parenting version of "harsh". That's why they excuse the behaviour and actions of our Nparents - because in their minds parents couldn't possibly do such heinous acts, or deliberately act against the best interests of their child.

Same for me. I turn 35 on the 17th and about 2 years ago, I was like, no, it was not okay and I started to feel like I wanted to cut contact off and be my own family. No one has ever apologized for what was done to me. So they clearly dont see a problem with any of it. My childhood abuse borders on torture. They are decent to my kids but I see little things I just dont want going on. I found out a few days ago my mom has been talking shit about me and my STBXH to my 11 year old. I just want to do what they taught me and punch her in her mouth. Luckily I realized violence is not the only way. In spite of my upbringing. My stbxh had to work hard to make me understand if you get to the point of violence, you have already lost. Why couldn't you use your words like a real person. I was taught to fight and be violent but I am better than that now. Not that the urge doesn't hit me when my kid tells me shit like that. Hell I got so mad i forgot what I was writing about. Lol. Have a good day.

From a biological point of view it makes sense that any biological parent would care about their child's health more than almost anything: to make sure they survive long enough to reproduce on their own. If that's a correct point of view than parent's dont actually have any inherent reason to care about their child's emotional and overall psychological well-being and happiness. If that's a correct point of view than a person who doesn't realize this might jump to a conclusion that any biological parent inherently only ever does good to their children.

It's like they forget abusive/mental ill people become adults and have kids too and biologically creating a baby doesn't turn them into healthy people (actually, it's the other way around).
They assume we have no free will to be good/bad anymore and that we act purely on instinct like non human animals when we engender a kid. Humans have a complex physique, it's natural for us to not being natural, to hate our children and have sex merely for pleasure and not only for reproduction (I'm not saying it's morally correct to neglect them, but we have the possibility to do it, some other species can't because they act unconsciously). I'm fed up of people applying general biology to a particular species instead of understanding their specific traits.
It's so sad that it's very weird to find people that thinks out of the herd of ''family idealism''. Someone that understand that a family is a bunch of people attached by DNA with nothing much in common, that is not an extension of yourself. I didn't choose to be born there, it's like we own them our existence when we didn't look for being born. That isn't our job to deal with their instability (literally, my grandmother used me to keep the harmony between an abusive marriage) or to be their emotional punching bag.

I have always hated that statement, my counter to that is that someone best isnt always good enough. You can do everything right and still fail. So someone who is doing there "best" doesn't equal right or good enough.

My parents did the best they could. Unfortunately, their "best" sucks. I think that's issue with many nparents - they think that as long as they are doing *their* best, it is adequate to bring up a child and makes them the best parents.

I wrote down in a diary back when I was like 15 how much it sucked to be a child and how powerless it felt, just so that regardless of what happened as I grew older, I wouldn't forget it. I'm nearly in my 20s now, and I don't think I'm in much danger of forgetting, which makes me wonder how anybody ever forgot.

Everybody would have felt powerless to some extent as a kid, and yet, I still see people as young as their early 20s treating children and teenagers like shit, and all I can wonder is why. How did this habit of treating the next generation like shit last for more than a single generation of human civilization, let alone up to the modern day.

Yes, especially the older generation. My grandmother is exactly that way. She encouraged her children to rugsweep their alcoholic father’s abuse, and she encourages me to rugsweep my mother’s abuse. This is how dysfunctional families operate. They have to rugsweep. They don’t know how else to exist. The abuser is irrational, so they won’t go to that person and bully them into making everything right, so they go to the victim, because they see them as more reasonable. If they don’t overlook the abuser then they would have to deal with the problem, and they don’t know how to do that. So they minimize and rugsweep. I believe estrangement is very common in these types of families. Eventually the scapegoat gives up, and leaves. Then the family just pretends they don’t know why, while trying to get the scapegoat to come back and play their assigned role again.

Sometimes it’s just gaslighting. They know very well that it took place. They just don’t want to deal with it, so they try to convince the victim that it never happened or that it wasn’t abuse.

Then there is something else that happens. Sometimes extended family members will give the abusers the benefit of the doubt. My aunt and grandmother will always give my mother the benefit of the doubt, because my mother is their first degree relative. They have known my mother for longer, and are closer related to her than they are to me. When I tried to tell my aunt what was happening in the family, she essentially told me that this is what was happening, and then acted like it was normal and healthy behavior. She said the my mother was my grandmother’s daughter, and she was always going to believe her over me and put my mother first, no matter what the cost was to me or my family.

They want to keep the abuse going apparently what I have come to realize is that normally it runs in the family. The grandmother was abusive so the mother because abuse they like to keep the revolving door spinning so to speak

So was I. To some extent or another I am still treated like a dumb spoiled kid by my abusive family. That is just the role they assigned me. Everyone else has backed off once I reached about 30. Age really does play a role in how people view victims.

When I was young I thought my family was 'normal.' It wasnt until I made friends with other people and hung out with them and their families that I realized how toxic my home life was by comparison. Sometimes young people don't get the attention of adults because they cant articulate what is wrong with their family just because they lack the right perspective.

Good point. How teens are treated can be shocking. It was never "my parents wont let me stay out all night" . It was "my father keeps staring at my tits, my mom gets drunk every night, i am so alone, i am so lonely, "

YEP.
And they don't always know how to emphasize the gravity of the situation, which is upsetting because then people seem to think it's not a big deal just because the teen doesn't ACT like it is. They don't know if this is normal or not! That's often why they come to someone in the first place! Oof.

I've been in a very similar boat. We are gaslit so badly by our nparents, and told so many times "how much worse it could be" that you somehow feel lucky. Lucky for being "less abused" than you could have been. It's a sick, gnawing feeling when you realize it's practically Stockholm syndrome. At the same time, I'm thankful I got to see my partner's functional family, seeing real love, real care, an actual family. If they didn't live across the country, I would have tried to push for them to give some type of legal guardianship (My partner and i began dating when we were teens.)

This is such an important point that a lot of people don’t understand. Abuse is still abuse, and it still has a toxic effect on our lives, even if we don’t understand that what is happening is abuse. Part of my issues growing up is that I didn’t know how to articulate what was happening to me at home. I knew I was in pain, and suffering the effects of trauma, but I didn’t know how to make people understand because I wasn’t sure what was abuse and what was normal. Then there was the family’s culture of silence and shame. I was afraid to give the details about the physical and emotional abuse, because when I started talking about it in small ways it got dismissed as, “Oh, we all got spanked,” or “All parents yell,” so I wouldn’t go any further about the extent of the beatings and the incessant emotional abuse.

It wasn’t until I got out of that environment, and saw how normal families work that I started to understand how exactly my family was dysfunctional.

I knew I was in pain, and suffering the effects of trauma, but I didn’t know how to make people understand because I wasn’t sure what was abuse and what was normal. Then there was the family’s culture of silence and shame.

Yes, exactly! The more I go to therapy, the more I uncover was not normal about my childhood and the more there is to work through. Because I just learned to cope with it and suppress all of those memories and feelings. I was very hesitant when my therapist told me my issues seem to be normal avenues of learning to cope with trauma, because I didn't see it for what it was - trauma!

I wouldn't take what people with good parents supports seriously. I've learned not to from experience. They don't understand abuse and are very arbitrary about what they understand, I feel they only get cases in which the abused person communicates very well and is healed enough to express what happened very efficiently (this is no joke at all for a victim of abuse), cases in which something involved is related to something they know they're socially expected to support (aka heavy physical or sexual abuse), or cases that are mild enough that they can easily relate, like a parent being an alcoholic or someone's parents having a divorce or something.

I think being misunderstood feels intolerable because it plays into our Ns' narrative that we suck and they're the wronged party, but, most importantly, because we feel very deeply that we're being treated very unfairly and there's something very wrong with our family. All our lives, even when we're not able to put it into words, we feel this way, and the more we look into it the more we see why it may be and the more bullshit comes to light. So, if it was all a lie, what would that say about us? Not to mention how alone it makes you feel to be misunderstood.

I had one experience that changed my view on this forever. I posted about a super terrifying experience with my Nmom that was honestly the most scared I've been in my life. Nothing special happened that day per se, it was just a typical narcissistic rage, but due to childhood conditioning it was super scary. Since then I've actually gotten many "normal people accomplishments" even despite the "penalty" of the mental issues from abuse, like getting jobs, moving far away, graduating uni and whatnot, but to this day I see those as formalities whereas the real shit I'm proud of, and legit celebrate the anniversary to this day (as in, if I remember I get myself some treat or something), is standing up to the terror of my Ns. I'd legit be dead if I hadn't been brave as a teen so I'm super proud.

However, I talked about it in r/advice and got shit on by some guy who legit went out of his way to insult me and do his best to make me feel bad, because he decided I was being unfair to my mom. Then I talked about it on other sub, with nice people who meant well, asking for advice on how to find another place to stay without money, and when I linked the post that explained the abuse, they went silent, like they thought I sucked but were too nice to tell me. Well, you know what, I believe that if you're judgemental but "too nice" to say what you think you're still an asshole and that's what those guys were.

Nowadays it's not that much of a problem bc I've gotten good at talking about it, but back then I needed support the most and never got it except for RBN.

BTW the reason I said normal people supports physical abuse and sexual abuse victims because they know they're socially expected to, is because the fact that they dismiss emotional abuse gives away the fact that they don't truly care. It really shows a huge lack of empathy to see someone that claims to be really suffering and still invalidate them because you don't believe that your interpretation of what happened warrants it.

BTW the reason I said normal people supports physical abuse and sexual abuse because they know they're socially expected to, is because the fact that they dismiss emotional abuse gives away the fact that they don't truly care. It really shows a huge lack of empathy to see someone that claims to be really suffering and still invalidate them because you don't believe that your interpretation of what happened warrants it.

I had one experience that changed my view on this forever. I posted about a super terrifying experience with my Nmom that was honestly the scariest I've been in my life. Nothing special happened that day per se, it was just a typical narcissistic rage, but due to childhood conditioning it was super scary. Since then I've actually gotten many "normal people accomplishments" even despite the "penalty" of the mental issues from abuse, like getting jobs, moving far away, graduating uni and whatnot, but to this day I see those as formalities whereas the real shit I'm proud of, and legit celebrate the anniversary to this day (as in, if I remember I get myself some treat or something), is standing up to the terror of my Ns. I'd legit be dead if I hadn't been brave as a teen so I'm super proud.

However, I talked about it in r/advice and got shit on by some guy who legit went out of his way to insult me and do his best to make me feel bad, because he decided I was being unfair to my mom. Then I talked about it on other sub, which nice people who meant well, asking for advice on how to find another place to stay without money, and when I linked the post that explained the abuse, and they went silent, like they thought I sucked but were too nice to tell me. Well, you know what, I believe that if you're judgemental but "too nice" to say what you think you're still an asshole and that's what those guys were.

Totally agree. Dismissiveness is a narcissistic defense and once you’ve had n poisoning, you become sensitive to even the tiniest amounts. Like everyone has some narcissistic traits because it’s a normal defense but the ones that start to threaten or begin to compromise empathy are so obvious to us.

It’s a superpower, really. Love that you root for your accomplishments btw. I don’t know you but I’m proud of you and so glad we all get to have this sub. People who don’t get it have no idea how lucky they are to be so blissfully ignorant. And the physical/emotional abuse distinction is ludicrous because anyone who thinks physical abuse is a real thing because it can leave marks must also realize that the bruises and scars heal, right? But they don’t suggest the abuse stops existing once the bruises heal, right? The abuse experience stays? So by what action do they imagine the physical abuse is sticking to the victim? All abuse is emotional abuse. That’s how abuse works. Some happens to have a physical component that can leave even worse scarring, but if they believe in abuse then they believe in emotional abuse, whether they care to think about it thoroughly or not.

You are so right about the fallacy of the distinction between physical and emotional abuse. I sometimes wish that my emotionally abusive nhusband had physically struck me just once. I believe that even I would have recognized that as abuse and gotten out sooner. My biggest regret is that I didn't divorce him before our daughter became chronically ill and disabled. She and I would then never have moved with him to the state where she contracted Lyme disease. This subreddit forum is so enlightening. It's helped me understand how my upbringing in an alcoholic family set me up for a narcissistic husband.

I'm so sorry :( and if it helps I believe having been beaten wouldn't have helped. Gaslighting is VERY powerful. It seems counter intuitive but it's like that. My Ns have managed to successfully gaslight me about very blatant things :(

Strange that you say that, because I felt EXACTLY the same way as my abusive N former wife. I wished she had hit me instead so I would have some tangible physical evidence that I was being abused. It is very hard to explain emotional/verbal abuse to someone who has not witnessed it.

This hits the nail right on the head. Chances are when a young person describes their situation, they are under-stating the seriousness of it, rather than over-stating. The ppl in my life who were RBN still do that today, and as an ally I have to remind them that it's OK to be completely honest about what happened and how it made you feel.

Fully agree. I am one of the younger ones on here (19) but I live away from and have cut contact with my lovely n. Didn’t have Reddit until recently. This sub should be a refuge for younger users who are still stuck living with an abuser. I can’t even imagine how helpful it could’ve been if I’d had Reddit at the time. Shouldn’t it be a good thing that people are recognizing abuse at a younger age, and taking steps to get support and protect themselves?

Congratulations on finding your way! I just recently turned 20 and have been out of the house since August of last year. I agree completely, recognizing abuse is like diagnosing a disease--the sooner, the better, and the less damage sustained.

The things I could have known and realized, much less done to better my life, because a source like this subreddit existed in my teens (or at all) is beyond my comprehension. I’m so thankful and grateful it exists for me in my 30s, and it’s because of said existence I’ve been able to come a long way in such a short amount of time.

But I’m especially thankful and grateful it exists for people like you, the teens and early twenty-somes, who can make the informed, hard decisions for themselves I only dreamed about so long ago.

It is so wonderful to have. I dealt with an ndad who was a master of subtle abuse, the kind that barely even looks like abuse. I was 17 when I figured out it was abuse, with about a year and a half of high school left. As soon as I could I left for a college 800 miles away (still not far enough for me, but it’s where the school I wanted was), pursing a major my parents still don’t know about (neither would approve, but it’s my dream and there’s plenty of jobs), and cut contact with ndad the day I left.

This sub has more than anything provided validation and community. The worst was already over by the time I got Reddit, but I was drowning in a sea of “why aren’t you going home for spring break?!” There are so few resources for those raised by narcs. When I was initially researching emotional abuse, everything I found was for abusive marriages. Relevant, but not the same. And this is one of the few places where people recognize the more subtle abuse for what it is. If I describe my experience to an outsider, it doesn’t even begin to sound like abuse.

That got a bit longer than I expected lol. I had a good day. A year ago I wouldn’t have dreamed that the life I have now was even possible.

Sadly this subreddit also has a following of narcissistic trolls who enjoy beating down posters while claiming to be RBN themselves. The only thing we can do is report them when we see them, and be as supportive as we can for those suffering.

I had a disagreement on a completely unrelated sub with a user who also frequents here, and this user shamed me for my posts on various JustNo subs. Over a completely unrelated disagreement. The irony was blinding.

I had someone go from one of my posts in an unrelated sub about my brother being a dick to my mom (comment that I was being a dick for posting it) went on a post here that was venting about my mom and said something like "this is the woman you claim to care so much about?" Or something like that. I can have empathy for someone being treated badly and have been treated badly by them?

Abuse isn't okay to me even when it's given to my abuser, therefore I must be lying because who has empathy for bad people amirite 🙄. That person went on other posts with few responses to basically tell people they were over reacting. I reported and tried to tell the op they weren't in the wrong then blocked the mean user.

It literally is insane to me how anyone could go on an abuse sub and gaslight people. Some of us are far enough through the fog to see the bullshit but some aren't and I worry about them. I think that's why some people are rude to teens, because they're trying to keep a victim in the fog. I feel like narcs have some kind of karma thing where they think if they get some other narcs victim to stay someone will make their victim stay.

So sorry you had to deal with it also! Ns absolutely encourage other Ns. They all seem to read from the same playbook, so when they see someone else using their techniques they have to defend it, lest they feel obligated to begin questioning their own behavior. Can't have that now! They definitely reinforce each other's shitty behavior.

I remember when I posted about being forced to eat a lot and fat stuff, but being bodyshamed no matter if I was skinny or fat. Someone seriously said I should be grateful for having a meal. Yeah, I was, but forcing me to eat it is not okay. It threw me of big time, but I reported it and the mods took care of it very quickly which I was very grateful for.

I think it's good to report if you suspect that's what's happening. This isn't a sub for arguing about what N means, as many people have pointed out. Anyone seeking that debate needs to be sent elsewhere.

People who are abused and dismissed learn that it's ok to dismiss others. I'm trying not to do this by giving people the benefit of the doubt. I don't bend over backwards... but the benefit of the doubt can help abused folks, it extends pretty far, and it doesn't hurt anyone.

​

Just requires a bit of empathy. I have that most days. Please remind me to go find it when I lose it... so thanks for the reminder, OP.

I didn't think of it that way, that dismissing someone's abuse might be another of the unfortunate side effects of being abused oneself. You don't see that talked about a lot. Thanks for the insight, really.

Go back and read your posts. Look for a general trend. Do you tend to put people down more often, or lift them up and/or empathize? Do your comments mostly focus on you despite the post not necessarily being about you, or the other person/actual subject? Just self reflect a bit on the patterns of your posting. Of course, narcs wouldn't think it's bad so I guess it defeats the purpose but you could always have someone else analyze it, and not necessarily a friend either

This is a new question for me, too. Here's some thoughts I have on it:

Compare the negative relationship trends in your life to those of your parents (or whomever the abuser was). If you see that they are the same then you need to ask yourself what specific moments led to things becoming that way.

Trust your instincts, too. To me, you're not so much an "abuser" as you are a victim, if you can tell when you're doing something wrong. You might not know why or how, but some little bell will go off in your brain. Note those moments down and revisit them and if you can, ask the other person for their input on how you could improve. The biggest thing narcs do wrong is assuming that others are there to follow their program, instead of actively engaging with the new and unexpected needs of a new person (e.g. their child, spouse, colleague).

Remember that non-narc people aren't perfect, they have issues too. Narc children are overconditioned to criticise themselves or look for criticisms from others, but your loved ones should not be given a free pass if they do dick things sometimes. Everyone does, no one is perfect or a saint, including them and you!

If you don't want to turn into a narc, engage with others actively, giving them as many opportunities to voice needs and shape the relationship as you realistically can. Even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient... especially if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.

Don't beat yourself up for having those traits, understand they came from your environment, but don't use environment as an excuse to ignore them either. It takes time to undo learned habits and good friends will stick with you through it, if they see you're going out of your way to do things differently - imho.

It could also be that their own experiences of abuse are so much worse.

My mom behaved badly, she's not an N, her mother is and she always said that she was going to do things differently. And she isn't as bad, but that doesn't make her good. She doesn't have normal experiences.

It's things like, she used to get hit for being too slow while doing chores and she realises that that was bad...so she doesn't hit, she yells if you are too slow when doing the chores. Because in her mind the hitting was the bad part, not the being upset and making your kid feel bad about things they can't control.

She doesn't know what normal healthy parenting is so she does the same thing her mom did without the worst parts. And if you tell her it's wrong, she goes "No it's not, I'm not hitting you."

And the same thing happens with some of my experiences with my SO. He had one of the worst situations growing up, lifetime movie bad. So he can't muster up sympathy if I complain about a small thing because he's like..."I wish that happened to me." They didn't care to protect him, so he can't be sympathetic about my mom being controlling overprotective. He wishes he had that type of abuse.

I know entirely what you mean. I haven’t forgotten my horrid teenage years. I haven’t posted on this sub in ages, not since some troll came over and told me to “love my mother no matter what.” I got a lecture on being a bigger person instead of support that I really needed.

That sound terrible. I rarely post or comment anything because I have bad social anxiety (especially online) but I want you to know we're all here for each other. My therapist once told me to "talk with my mother" after years of low contact. No longer my therapist. Sadly these people exist because they luckily never had anything like this happen.

I'm very sorry that a troll showed up on your post. If you ever see anything like that, please alert the mods so we can take care of it. I know it doesn't undo the damage from having them show up in the first place, but at least we can keep them from doing it again. <3

Wow that troll is terrible. I read the OP's post and was shocked people are not taking teenagers' posts seriously - I have never seen that happen on this forum (although I also am not on here that frequently) but I would definitely call out any posters who do that.

Please keep posting when you need to and I hope the number of genuine posters here outnumber the trolls. "Love your mother no matter what" sounds like a narc mum trying to save their sinking ship.

Hell. Even as a younger 20-somwthing, I've been told by people on here that all my problems are gone since I've moved out. I currently live with my boyfriend and my nmom told me Saturday "you WANT to live in your own place. Even if you can't afford it you'll be happier." I cannot afford my own rent and while I refuse to go NC, I limit actual time with her, but she still thinks she controls me. I actually told her to fuck off after she said "you want..." I let her finish and said "fuck off. YOU want that so you can come bother me without feeling like you're intruding on my bf."

I really don't get why people who are younger/not NC/LC are treated so differently. Everyone's situation is different but we ALWAYS need to assume abuse.

As someone who uses the "move out asap" card frequently, I don't imply it solves all the person's problems but instead let's the person start healing. You can't heal if you're still actively being damaged, and if you're in an environment that causes depression you can't get better while you're there.

I've struggled with acne since my preteens and one thing I remember when I lived with my Nmom was that she would mention my acne every single day.

Have you washed your face?
What are you eating?
Will you take antibiotics?
Stop touching your face so much.

I felt like most people saw my mom as caring and supportive, but it was the opposite. I followed every rule in the book for trying to reduce acne, but it seemed mine was very genetic. My Nmom mentioning my face and how she wished I had pretty skin made me hate myself for a long time. I feel like, if my mom own mother thinks I'm ugly how could anyone else like me? She often made it seem like it was completely my fault despite using gentle face washes, SA, benzoyl peroxide, changing pillowcases, several medications, etc. Nothing I did could satisfy her and I remained a total failure.

My mom was the same way but with my weight. A combination of bad genetics and chronic illness, top that off with a couple surgeries, and frankly I'm fat. Which is fine! I like myself and make dad-gut jokes. But trying on clothes with her was a nightmare, because she and her sister would make comments on how every single item fit until I was crying in despair and didn't want to keep going. My aunt would always say it was better for them to be truthful with me ("If you had a huge, gross booger in your nose, wouldn't you want someone to come right out and tell you?"), and my mom would "gently" suggest different weight loss fads under the guise of being on my side.
And she wonders why I have such a weird relationship with food and with my body.
And everyone said it was fine! She was just trying to help and make sure I looked good! Jeez.

oh my gosh i feel this completely. my mom suggested weight watchers, jenny craig, different diets, workouts, etc. and was persistent about small things like what i eat (what she would cook for me in her household!). now i’ve lost weight (healthily, which was really difficult but i persisted) and now she suggests ways for me to get bigger because i’m “too skinny now” (which isn’t true at all). you can never win!

My mother was harassed about her acne by her family when she was a teen. She told me these stories a few years before I started to break out. She became obsessed with "saving" new from the same misery. At 12 I was on special diets that got me bullied at school. By 13 the diets got so extreme that arguments broke out between my parents about the costs. Meanwhile, I became more and more ostracized by family as a result of over zealous nature. Every day she would comment on the acne, harass me about diet and hygiene. I became so hyper obsessed with it that to this day, I cannot fathom the idea of even going to the corner store without a full hygiene routine. My ex used to make fun of me for it all the time.

My mother hangs it over my head as a "look what I saved you from" kind of thing. But, wtf, everyone had acne in high school. No one gave a shit about it. Not to mention she destroyed my selfesteem. I think about how fucked up it is that at 12 years old, eating a chocolate bar was an act of rebellion tantamount to drug addiction often and it boggles my mind. I don't understand the mental gymnastics needed to delude yourself in this way. But it often serves as a reminder that N-like behaviour can be learned. It makes me weary of the fact that I am equally susceptible. It's part of the reason why, despite wanting kids sometime in the future, I continue to resist the idea.

I like to think of narcissism as self-love deficiency. It's easy and natural to practice healthy hygiene and grooming when we truly value and love ourselves.

People ID'd as narcs often have to drag themselves kicking and shaming to get anything done for themselves.. And the things they say are often just projecting their own insecurities, which is completely inappropriate to put that on a child in their care.

Ugh, I heard that a lot! Simplistic useless bullshit. Basically I think it was meant to make Nmother feel caring & knowledgable, without actually having to do anything.

I think in hindsight a lot of mine was dietary. Both my n-rents abused their health - heavy smoking, booze, zero exercise - but their eating habits were the worst. Almost all our food was processed and full of fat, preservatives, artificial colors, etc.

After I moved out & learned to cook, my skin improved whenever my diet did.

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people forget what it was like to be a teenager. The fact that it's happening here as well is not okay.

When I read a post and I think that the person who wrote it may be contributing to the situation, if I don't have something constructive or potentially helpful to add I click off. If I can't put myself in the posters place and feel some compassion for what they're going through, I continue on my way. It's not that hard.

This is a support sub. If you're not being supportive, hush. If the post isn't appropriate the mods will deal with it, and if it doesn't strike a chord with anyone it won't get much interaction.

Not everyone needs 'put in their place', not every opinion needs to be shared. The majority of people who frequent this sub are looking for validation and help. If you can't provide that, leave it to someone that can.

I can only speak for myself, but it's not a lack of caring. It's kind of harrowing reading some of these stories & knowing the OP is stuck with the situation. It breaks my heart when I see a post from a 14 year-old, and know they can't get out for years.

Sometimes I simply can't handle the emotions that triggers & have to move on.

It was the "it's just a phase" and people literally not reading what I wrote. It's like you people just have default responses for people under 18 (I turned 18 three days ago). No one on this sub cares. Which is fine, but don't claim to care then. Lying is the most disrespectful thing you can do.

I've struggled with jealously of young people who are more aware than I was at their age. I'm seeing now that everyones' participation is required in order to uplift human consciousness to the point where we are actually able to really live on the planet, free from narc-dominated industries and lifeways.

That's the voodoo witch-doctor spell that has been placed on your family going back generations. It's possible to break free. The first step is healing our traumas and getting in touch with our true self. I wish you well on your awakening journey. :)

When I was leaving I was told I was going to be raped and murdered... and told my bf that was helping me that I was crazy. I asked them for proof since they mentioned a doctor and told him that I was accessed as never being able to function as an adult... I asked for the evidence instead of their bullshit.

They stopped at nothing. Don't believe their shit! Their brains are full of it and it's intention is to keep you down and hurting and depending on them.

I'm so sorry that people were dismissive of your post. If you ever see anything like that again, please alert the mods so we can take care of it. I know it doesn't undo the damage from having it happen in the first place, but at least we can remove the comments and watch those users so they don't do it to others. <3

I think the "all teens hate their parents" is very harmful. It is an idea that lets everyone dismiss all of the signs of abuse and a teens claims of abuse. Emotional abuse is not taken seriously, it's a joke to people.

In fact, parents abusing their teenagers has been celebrated to a point where it's scary. I felt like I was the only person on the planet when I was horrified of all those viral videos of parents running over their child's games with a lawnmower or putting bullets through their phones. I don't know what their kids did, but parents who cheer for that are fucking sadists.

Adults dismiss claims of abuse as mood swings or a phase that will be outgrown. People still don't believe me. Say I'm dramatic and once I'm older I will come to get along with them. I'm 20. People are terrible.

The weird part is that teens are the only people who you can destroy their property and the general reaction will be laugher and they deserved it. Put a bullet through a young child's favorite toy and CPS will be investigating you. Do it an adult and you will get sued. Do it to a teen, suddenly it's funny and violence is considered good parenting.

Anyone who think putting a hammer through their teen's phone for a bad test score is parenting and not the move of a total psycho should not be allowed to have kids.

Right?! I hate shit like that. My mom threatened my laptop constantly as a teen, and my phone once I got one, and since that was the only way I had to talk to friends (she was a master as isolating me in my younger years) I would have an absolute panic over it all, to which I would just be met with amusement at my freaking out over a "perfectly reasonable punishment."

This was always what my parents claimed was happening with me when I started to stand up for myself! The funniest part is, I first did it with my dad and refused to go over to his house on weekends and we had an enormous blow up fight when I was 12. All that time, he was saying I’m just a “teenager” and I know nothing, and my mom was praising how mature I was and supporting me no matter what he said. Years later, I did family therapy with my dad and found ways to work through a ton. So, as a consequence, my focus shifted and I got to realizing what a monster my mom is and I started standing up for myself in certain ways too. Of course, THEN she starts using the same argument “teens hate their moms” that she had just detested, not 4 years before!!!

Report anyone who answers in that way for breaking the rule and mods should be onto it. You also shouldnt assume everyone who replies are people well versed in narc abuse. Maybe some are, but others can be people just randomly browsing this sub.

It's hard. Because some of us are parents too and feel like wow, as a parent I might not be able to afford X Y and Z, or I might lose my temper and say X, and that in and of itself isn't narcissistic. People on here come from the perspective of parents/adults and that's very different than people coming from the perspective of teenagers. Yes, I've seen kids post on here and thought, geez, this isn't the place for them to vent because their parents are just being parents. That said, sometimes we lack the full picture and yes, we assume the context of abuse, so I scroll along or click upvote and say something supportive. Heck, when I was 16 I couldn't have articulated my mom's behavior well. I just knew something was WRONG. I get both perspectives. I'd say that if adults feel a teenager's post isn't relatable, then scroll past. But you're right. Assume the context of abuse, and only engage with the posts you feel are relatable to you! Thanks for bringing this up.

You put this into words better than I could have. Not every disciplinary action from a parent is abuse. At the same time, n’s are experts in dishing out soul crushing abuse while disguising it as discipline. It’s not up to us to determine if a person has been “abused enough,” we should be here to offer support when support is asked for.

I might lose my temper and say X, and that in and of itself isn't narcissistic

Not to invalidate you or anything, but I think it needs to be pointed out that if it happens enough, it sometimes can be. Sometimes narcs who don't necessarily realize they are narcs will be constantly losing their temper and saying terrible things, and then excuse it away as they just lost their temper, but that has a real damaging effect on the child.

This sub is a place to advocate for and support kids of Nparents. If someone on here sounds like they might be being an N, pointing it out for the kid's sake is better than validating the poster parent's feelings. Parents have power, kids don't, so kids need more advocacy than parents.

I do, relatively often, see posts here like: "I know I yell at my kids a lot, but I have empathy and good intent, so it's different." That's exactly how an N would justify it. Sure, it's normal to yell at your kids if they're doing something dangerous, or if you ask them to stop doing something rude and they ignore you and keep doing it. But if you're just "snapping from stress" and blowing up on your kids all the time, guess what, that's abusive, even if you "care" and "are trying."

This thread went sideways, so I've removed it. You're all right in that FLEAS need to be addressed if they are impacting on how someone treats their kids. And yes, FLEAS do happen. No, we don't allow calling people narcs on this sub. Lots of people here have picked up unhealthy behaviours from their abusive families. That doesn't make them narcs themselves.

We often see posts or comments by people who are aware of are beginning to be aware of their maladaptive behaviour towards their kids. It's exceedingly rare that those people make excuses for it. Actual narcs who do are usually exposed quickly and summarily banned.

I've seen young adults whose main complaint is that their parents made them move out or won't pay for something. I assume there's more to the story, but taken out of context that's hard to empathize with because an adult is fiscally responsible for his or herself. It's lovely of parents to sometimes help, but taking responsibility financially is very important and parents pulling the financial plug isn't always bad. There's probably more to the story - but when I see that by itself, it's hard to agree. So I move along without comment.

Totally agree. :) I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think it's better for a parent to err more on the side of "you need to do xyz" yourself" than to err on the side of being infantilizing, overbearing or controlling.

There is a terrible, beautiful, delicate period of time that people do not acknowledge.

As a late teen I worked in a daycare. A 3yo narrowed his eyes and demanded of me, "WHAT ARE YOU!? ARE YOU A KID OR A GROWNUP!!?"

I answered him honestly. I dont know. I'm too old to be a kid. I'm too young to be a grown up.

In my brain i went off the rails. I gotta buy my own shampoo and soap n stuff. But I'm not allowed to get my own apartment. I already joined the army but I cant vote yet. I can die for my country and get into almost all the movies, but I cant have a beer yet.

Look. Kids can be fuckin weird. They'll accuse you AS A FUCKIN TEEN, of trying to live "through them". You can try to explain there is a minor subset of people who were very popular in high school who might be interested in that shit, but for the rest of us it was a time ride with guilt, fear, anxiety, hormones, strange smells, and acne... and we have NO interest in reliving it, vicariously or not. My oldest is trans and I've coined the line, "I gotta respect anyone willing to do puberty fuckin TWICE".

But that doesnt mean their complaints arent valid. Often they just dont have the vocab or terms. As an elementary school aged kid, I told my folks i didnt like my bus driver because he "was a jerk".

Two months later that dude was the first school bus driver in major metro area to be pulled over and arrested on the spot for child endangerment, dangerous driving n stunt driving. They sent a letter home saying, "by now you've heard...." and my folks despite being justno themselves were AGHAST.

Why didn't you tell us!?

We did.

Except "Hes a jerk" gets you "Its your duty to get along with the adults in your life. Help him!" but a police report that he caused 20k damage to a bus full of kids and a police cruiser gets "MY BAAAABY".

Dont be that guy. I watched a girl on a rescue 911 show whose father was caught in the act of pimping her out whine that he was "trying to control her and live her life through her!!" GIRL WTF EVERY IDIOT WITH A DAD THAT SAYS NO TO A PARTY SAYS THAT SHIT TALK ABOUT THE MONEY FOR YOUR COOCH WHAT ARE YOU DOOOOING!?

Sigh. Kids are... beautiful and magical and awesome creatures that I truly do love... but we think of ourselves as kids n late teens as "adults in kids bodies". This makes us judge ACTUAL children way too harshly. They are great and wonderful creatures... that can be dumb as a box of hair. God bless em, I dont blame em and I don't count myself as exempt...

... fuckin stupid. Easily manipulated. Not a BAD thing, just the way they are built.

But if you hear that a teen's dad is "controlling them and trying to live through them!?" Or a school aged kid thinks someone in power over them is "a real jerk!" ASK WHY. Ask for details.

I ask myself that very question every time I see a bottle of chocolate milk.

All jokes aside, this is a really good way of breaking it down. And the idea of seeing late teens as "adults in kids' bodies" is painfully accurante and a super harmful way to look at it if applied in the wrong way.

You're right. There needs to be more investigation. Ask them to elaborate. I asked my 12-year-old cousin why she, quote, "didn't like [a classmate] very much." Turns out the girl was pulling my cousin's hair and messing with her every day. Biiiiiig difference in what was happening and how she related it.

I find posts written on here by teenagers or young people still living with the nparents to be extremely depressing and anxiety inducing. My heart absolutely breaks for anyone who is currently going through what I went through years ago. I would never belittle anyone's experiences but I feel so helpless when I see that someone is currently living in the same situation that I was so lucky to excape. I have nightmares about visiting my nparents. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to help. I couldn't even help myself back then. All I know to say is to hold on to hope, do not let yourself turn into them, get out of there as soon as you can and, please, never look back.

I complete agree, and it goes the other way too. There are posts from people well into their 20s or even 30s who say things like "I can't get a job or move out because it feels too hard and I have anxiety," or "I'm a toxic person who can't keep anyone in my life, but it's not my fault because Nparents," and it's considered too mean to tell them to be accountable and take responsibility for their own life. Completely hypocritical.

It's really all how you speak to someone. If you see a post like that, coming at them in an accusatory way will not help the situation. It will make the person feel worse and less likely to change.

But if you don't blame them, you validate them and tell them it isn't their fault, you might just raise their self-esteem enough that they feel enough self-worth to actually make a change.

Yelling "personal responsibly" at someone just makes everything worse. You are not helping someone when you talk to them that way.

It sounds counter intuitive, but if you say to them "it isn't your fault", what you doing is telling the person that they are capable of change. When you tell someone it isn't their fault, then what you are doing is telling them that there's nothing internally wrong with them, it's just the situation they're in, it's not them, that means they are capable of everything everyone else is and they can go out there and be a normal person with a normal life. But if you tell them that it's their fault, they need to take personal responsibility, they will feel so low about themselves that they will not have the will to change even though they want to.

Thank you for this education. And you're correct that tact is very important.
Sometimes though, people seem just unwilling to to do anything that's hard or scary, to the point where they rudely shoot down every suggestion they get and are condescending about realistic solutions.

Usually that's because they feel you're missing something about the situation, so they don't feel like they're conversing with someone who understands the problem they're dealing with in the first place. How can you help a problem if you don't understand it? You need to make someone feel understood before you can attempt to offer solutions. And not in a fake way either, you need to make a real effort to understand them, that is to not blame them, only then can your advice be received and helpful to someone.

Trust me, just generally as a life tip, advice will NEVER be received if you include blame with it. If you want to get through to someone, you cannot blame them.

exactly! i’m 16 and trying to find a job in a small town so i can leave at 18. people kept telling me “just get a job and buy your own phone plan. no problem” like it’s that simple. it sucks because that’s what my nparents tell me all the time

Honestly we all have the potential. The longer you live the more you see how much of an impact being RBN really made on you. Being conscious of your actions and making efforts to change once your actions have been made aware to you are key to not continuing the cycle.

I entirely agree with you. I think many people hated what their Nguardian was like so much that they can be blind to their own tendencies towards it as well. There was a post on here a while back where the OP mentioned that she was gaslighting her boyfriend accidentally. It was really eye opening for me. I think we all need to be more aware of our actions if we want to truly stop the cycle.

My mum is a textbook Münchhausen by Proxy (but not the kind that'd hurt you. The sneaky kind that'd drag you from doctor to doctor, exaggerating the actual problem and... honestly getting off from all the doctor attention as she was the only one who talked during the hundreds of appointments I had)

It was incredibly invalidating when people said that's not Münchhausen by Proxy/ My Nmom was just worried about me.
These visits were pure terror to me and by now they are mostly all so far suppressed and I just cannot recall them anymore. It's all a blur now, but maybe that's for the best.

I used to joke that I went to more doctors, specialists and hospitals than a normal person in their lifetime would... And that's no exaggeration. I surely went to 6-7 different hospitals alone. I also had a lot of different X-Rays, MRI's and a CT scan done. And so many specialists examined me saying they can't do anything. Yet the doctor visits persisted and only stopped when I fled my "home".

When you get treated like a literal guinea pig, your chronic pain and crippled body parts only get attention when it's convenient (pity because her daughter is a cripple, more doctor visits) and otherwise you're left alone with your problems and crippling pain doesn't that MAYBE sound like ABUSE to you?!

But what do we know. The dumb, ungrateful kids who don't understand the "love" that our parents show us am I right.

I agree. Teenage years sucked. Repeating what others what may already be saying in some of these young people’s lives is not meaningful feedback. We cannot know everyone’s circumstances so we need to let people here vent. Sure some may just be dealing with going through what all teenagers do, but everyone should be able to hope/want/try for a better situation for themselves.

Completely agree, whether it's folks who have been abused themselves and haven't learned how to express empathy for others, or tourists just here for entertainment and "llama noms" there are far too many comments here that are not appropriate for a support sub.

The best thing to do is REPORT those comments. The mods are great about enforcing the rules here but they need help too. Report, report, report, and ban the users who have nothing to offer the community.

Exactly, it's not about snitching, it's about providing support and validation for those in need. On any other sub I just downvote and move on, but the entire purpose of this community is support, not perpetuating abuse. If users can't be mature and empathetic, then gtfo.

OP, please NEVER hesitate to use the report button. We rely on our users to let us know when there's trouble afoot, and many many times reports have allowed us to get ahead of a situation before there was major fallout for an OP who was suicidal or otherwise vulnerable.

Please report. Even if you aren't sure. Do it anyway and let us sort it out.

Snitching is when you do something and tell on people that are doing the same thing. You robbed a bank but you know billy robbed 3 banks so you snitch on billy for a lighter sentance.

I HATE the phrase tattle tale. I hate it so much. It shames children into not telling adults actual problems. I once told a teacher a kid was telling me he was gonna kill me and got told not to be a tattle tale Nd he was just messing around, big shocker why I never told any adults about the shit in my house.

Never feel bad about reporting someone, whether for an actual crime or breaking a sub rule. No matter the consequences it is not your fault, but their fault for knowingly breaking rules. (What I told my friend that was raped whennshe said she didn't want to ruin the guy's life "over this": It's not your fault sweetie, he knew what he was doing and what laws he was breaking and hurt you anyway. That's on him not you) people genuinely blame the person that reports a crime for the consequences the criminal faces. They didn't hold a gun to his head and make them commit a crime.

As a teen myself, I always feel like my opinion or thoughts are always thrown under the bus. While I agree not all teens are seriously being abused, and are just complaining, that isn’t always the case. When children and teens seriously are in trouble, nothing is done and we are often considered incompetent. Teens should be respected, too- as we are people just as adults are. We have opinions and feelings, and we should be heard. There are so many of us suffering in silence.

Even when some people are trying to be supportive, it's like they see anyone younger as subhuman. I can't really blame them, since the media treats us like screeching monsters, but I wish they would listen even if what I'm saying sounds dumb at first.

Fleas, these people have fleas from their N's or maybe N's themselves. So they come here looking for validation for their own mistreatment but have a hard time accepting that other people have had the same or worse happen to them.

I've also noticed that N's like to hang out in these subreddits and troll those victimized by people like them, seems to be a passive Narc feed for them.

I totally agree. It's really disappointing to see... we're all coming from the same boat. I'm 19, and it took me a long time to realize the treatment I get isn't normal. Media and society plays a big part in making teens going through abuse feel like they're just being ungrateful. "They're doing the best they can" "You should be grateful, some have it worse" "They're your parents" "Maybe if you wouldn't of...." Narc survivors don't need to hear that. What they're going through is valid no matter their age. I thought I was just being an ungrateful brat, I'm sure a lot of the older people on here thought the same thing when they were younger.

Oh my god, thank you. As a 15-year-old, I appreciate this so much. People often laugh at me when I explain how much minors are discriminated against, and I know it sounds stupid, but I hate that people think my opinions and feelings and thoughts automatically don't matter because of my age, even some who legitimately care about me.

I thought I was just being an ungrateful brat, I'm sure a lot of the older people on here thought the same thing when they were younger.

All the statements that you quoted we're things I told myself until I was 30. I suppressed so much when I was in my teens, because I didn't want to be the cliche rebelling against my parents.

I'm in awe of the younger members of this sub that have identified their parents behaviour and are actively trying to get help for themselves and better their lives. It's amazing, and I'm stoked that you aren't going to be in the FOG for the first decade of your adult life like I was.

I'm so scared of commenting and talking about my abuse. Yes I did feel loved,but my mother give me basic respect in any sense. Bc my mom isn't exactly narcissistic alcoholic doesn't mean she was a great mom.
I learned early that my opinions don't matter, my feelings don't matter and no matter what facts bring to the table I'm always wrong. My judgment is always wrong And everything that happened to me or I mentioned to my mom will be shared with no filter, if i get upset well that's just funny.

I'm 19. Been depressed for 10years, I have been diagnosed I have meds but my family doesn't take it seriously. I'm lonely tired and I'm not functional enough to get work. I always knew that my family was out of line but never really got it before I met my bff and bf. It feels so weird to be loved, and valued.

At the very least they had narcissistic tendencies. My strongest memory is my mom yelling at me over the phone, while I'm crying bc I'm lonely and it hurts note I was like 8 she just yelled "I can't turn into for you"

The reason I never talked about anything was because I was afraid no one would believe me. I literally avoided being disregarded to the point that it took me 15 years to go to therapy. As a teenager, growing up in it is your reality; your normal. When you complain because (it’s like you know how to observe your surroundings and other parents, and deduce that your life and situation is wayy different from your friends/schoolmates) you think -insert whatever- is unfair and then you get the usual “you must’ve given them attitude” “I’m sure they have a reason for doing that” “they’re just trying to teach you what’s right, no kid likes being punished.” Let me tell you how confusing that was!

I understand now that adults often empathize with similar (looking, anyway) situations. Parents to other parents, for example. I had (and still do) the hardest time trusting myself and my true emotions. I won’t go into what all that has caused me (mainly because I think you all know).

Let these teenagers say what they want. Don’t repeat the cycle by dismissing their emotions and feelings like yours were. We all make mistakes. We are not our nmoms, we can acknowledge when we’ve made a mistake and try to thoughtfully and genuinely fix it. I know I’ve been resentful before but I’m working to fill that hole in me.

If you’ve felt as though someone has said something negative or dismissed you without a chance to be heard, remember that when people say/do mean things it’s more a reflection of their pain than whatever you did/said.

I felt crazy too. I even convinced myself for awhile that I was the problem she kept saying I was. Therapy has given me new air. That and reading/doing research into her behavior. Being older helps clarify things, too.

It's so confusing when people keep telling you they're jealous of your parents, that your parents are amazing and you should be grateful. I believed that, and I spent my whole life systematically killing my needs to make them happy and proud. I never succeeded much, but now that I'm trying to do what is best for me I'm ungrateful and a whiny child.

I remember growing up how hard my Mom worked at selling the concept of ‘bad kids’, the idea that a kid’s parents could be literally perfect and a kid would still turn out to be an ungrateful wretch and a terrible person. That some kids were just born ‘bad’ regardless of upbringing or genetics, and were destined to be bad adults.

She needed to in order to justify basically discarding my older sisters.

And people bought it. They are it up. Because one version of events morally required they intervene, and another did not.

So I grew up terrified of displeasing my parents, because I didn’t want to get labelled a ‘bad kid’. I never took risks, never explored, never did anything that would draw any attention to me. My sister had been an excellent student after all, and it didn’t help her. I knew if my Mom decided I was a ‘bad kid’, that would be it. I’d be discarded and worthless. I grew up feeling like I had a sin counter over my head that never went down, only up, and there was an easily reachable limit that would doom me to being one of these bad kids; I knew no one would believe me or take my side, because no one had for my sisters. Nor did I believe I would deserve them to. It was just how I thought it worked.

People don’t listen to teenagers because it’s easier than dealing with a potentially scary problem. They buy into the narrative that teenagers are whiny, lazy and entitled because it means they don’t have to face the potential need to act, or to second guess their own parenting. In media, parents are wise and benevolent, and teenagers are troubled, stubborn, selfish and stupid.

Along the lines of recognizing different types of abuse, and because there is so many younger adults/ teens on here, I thought I'd share. My therapist outlined 6 different types of abuse for me when I first went to her that helped me a lot. It helped me know I wasn't crazy. And I wish I knew this earlier.

Abuse= 3 things to be abuse. Its for power and control. It's deliberate. And intent to hurt.

1) Physical. This is anything infringing on your physical being, whether its hitting, punching, pulling hair, space intimidation (ever see two guys beef up in a bar fight? Where they puff up and start leaning into the other person's bubble? Yeah that), or physical demonstration of violence meant for you (punching a wall, kicking the dog, throwing a doll past your head).

2) Sexual. This can be physical acts, comments, gestures, propositions, controlling acts, degradation, exposure to at an inappropriate age, etc. This also includes the victims own sexuality/ orientation.

3) Emotional. Emotions are what you feel. Controlling or seeking to control the victims emotions to their own ends, such as making them feel unhappy, guilty, sad, anger, happiness, etc. This is always for the abusers own ends and never for the victims. Comments like " why dont you love me like I love you, I do all of this for you and you....blah blah blah" are a very common version of emotional abuse (not that that's personal experience /s)

4) Psychological. This is what you think. Gaslight is a huge example of psychological abuse. Making you think or not think something. Even to the point of not believing something you know literally happened.... "but do you really know?" Is an abusers best tool. Doubting your own mind. Isolation. Making you think you're all alone.

5) Financial. Controlling money or showing their lack of control. Using the victims finances to control them. Doling out not enough cash to get through the week and then overly severe consequences when they don't have enough. The opposite is also true, not being responsible or spending the victim's money abusively. Think the parent who believes that their child's money is actually theirs so the parent goes and spends it all on themselves.

6) Spiritual. Not in the religious sense (though that can fall into many of these). Our sense of spirit is what makes us... us. What makes me [blue eyes] what makes you you. Spiritual abusers take that and grind it down so you have no sense of self. You are not worth the ground to be walked on, less than dust. Its tearing away self confidence, stability, sense of self, hobbies, things they enjoy, all through actions, comments, and a combined effort of the other abuses above. This is undermining everything you know to be true about yourself and replacing it with their own incredibly skewed idea of what you should be. And they get you to where you start to believe it.

Out of all of these? I'd take physical and sexual any day. I'm not saying that they aren't horrendous in their own right, and I don't want anyone to ever EVER have to deal with it at all. but from my personal experience, my self defense class helped with the sexual abuse, my therapist helped me work through the not feeling safe, but learning to trust my own mind? That leaves scars, that no one can see that come up every day.

Bit of a ramble I'm sorry. I just hope more people get educated about this. So no, you're not crazy. No, that is something wrong they're doing. Yes, you can change. Yes, you do have the power to. And no, not everyone is going to understand, but having the words to explain it helps even your own self. And that's who's most important.

I agree. I do think it's because teenagers are more likely to mistake stern parenting for abuse due to lack of experience/perspective, so there's the underlying assumption that they are always just being dramatic.

I think it's sad because, yeah, I don't doubt there are some people here who aren't actually in situations comparable to living with someone with NPD, but it's not really my job to judge who is and isn't worthy of posting here.

The best thing you can do is treat everyone with the assumption that they are telling the truth and really need a safe place to vent or ask advice. Just be nice, yknow?

If you don't have anything nice to say, or if you think OP is being dramatic or lying, just don't reply to the post and move on. :(

Thanks for posting this. I'm in my 30s now, but was definitely made to feel ashamed for things like this in my teens. It was almost like I deserved the punishment of my parents for being a normal kid. Teenagers having sex and needing financial support is normal. Teens deserve to be able to enjoy life without shame or working themselves to death to just get by.

I completely agree. Younger people, especially those who are underage and living with their nparent, need even more support! Sorry that some people on here were treating you and other young users badly; I’ll do my part to report them when I see it. Invalidating others is totally NOT what this sub is supposed to be about. ♥️

That's one of the reasons I stopped posting here from my old account. I read things like a disabled kid's story about literally being imprisoned by their parents..doing exactly what I did in that same position, pretending to be stupid so they won't be literally murdered....asking for advice in that short time they are alone in the house and able to use the internet. Posts get competently ignored. Yet, someone else posts a complaint about the inheritance they hope to get from Nparents and are showered with replies, love bombs, and advice. The world is fucked, and I give up.

It's tough -- this sub gets so much traffic, sometimes posts get buried without getting any comments. The mods encourage people to re-post after a day or two if they don't get comments, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck for some posts to get missed. When I have the bandwidth, I try to go over posts and reply to posts that didn't get much traffic in the last day or two. I would encourage others to do that as well if they want to spread the love around.

I've noticed this as well. It isn't just teens, it seems to be anyone in their early twenties or younger. You'd think the younger the poster the more supportive you would be, considering a younger person might not know how to cope with things yet. But I see young posters get shit on while older posters are praised.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

Yes! Even if it sounds like whining, it probably is coming from a deeper, sadder place that they aren’t being cared for in the way all children should be. Let the young person complain, and if you can help, do it without being yet another grown up going “you don’t know your own experience” and invalidating them. Facts are facts, and us, fellow children of narcissists, should know better than to invalidate others before we acknowledge them.

I'm shocked and saddened that anyone in this subreddit would mistreat other users. I'm so glad that you brought this to everyone's attention. I feel so grateful for this group and the ability to advise and sympathize with other survivors, especially those still going through it because it feels as though I'm sending letters of support and love to my younger self. It's like a pay-it-forward/karmic-release. My guess is that those who have mistreated others here have narcissistic traits themselves, they should be blocked from the group. Hugs to you and your boyfriend. #narcissistsNOTwelcome

Do you (doubters) know why some "mildly" abused teenagers try to lurk first? Because we don't feel like we deserve the help that some "more" abused people (sexual assault, heavy physical abuse, Olympic medal winning mental gymnastics) because everybody, including ourselves, tell us to just suck it up and take it. Abuse is abuse. We need support. Don't compete abusiveness like a teenager. I have friends at school to do that with. Otherwise (I'm sorry), you're a teenager and should take your own advice of sucking it up and taking the abuse you had as a teen. Because abuse at >20 is nothing, right?

Although I'm not a teen (21), this is actually one of the reasons I haven't posted anything despite lurking for quite a while. My finger is always above the post button, but I'm always worried people here will echo the incorrect thoughts in my head.

The majority of us are here for having narcissistic parents, and saying the poster "shouldn't have done that" or "needed to do this" is a horrible mindset to have and places blame on the children.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

This happened to me when I was like fifteen (I’m 21 now sos solid few years ago).

I posted here after my mom reported my boyfriend to the police after we had consensual sex, and I got maybe four comments, several downvotes, and a few pms telling me that I was just a pissy teen who was just being stupid

I deleted that whole account and only just recently resubscribed on this one.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

As an excessively old fellow, I often have mixed feelings with this sub. It's horrible to hear what people have to go through, but I'm glad that so many realize it at an early age. The earlier the better, despite the heartbreak.

There seems to be a trend towards noticing it early on, and that's just great.

​

The only issue I really have with the sub is that some people assume that being someone's child makes you incapable of initiating narcissistic behavior that isn't the fault of the parents/guardians. It's rare, but it does happen.

Holy shit, I get treated like this in real life. I'm 15, have been NC for a month living with my non-narcissist dad (Been here since february 2018), and even after detailed descriptions of what I went through with my nmom he still insists that she loves me. No. She doesn't. She hates me, as a matter of fact. I'm autistic and she shows obvious favoritism towards my three neurotypical siblings, constantly comparing me to them and even letting me starve in their favor because "We don't want to make you dinner and you'll wake the kids up if you make it yourself" On top of that, I had to share my meals with them if they wanted something from mine. They'd demand a share of my food and then not even eat it. I don't blame the kids because they're toddlers. There was constant gaslighting and manipulation as well. My nmom even manipulated and lied to my teachers and school counselor just to get them to hate me. Nmom's also an alcoholic, and more than once she's tried to hurt me while drunk. My nstepdad was just as bad, always calling me an ugly dirty bitch. Both of them would tell me that I'm a lazy, selfish, manipulative failure who's going nowhere in life. So no. She doesn't fucking love me. And I'm not just overreacting because I'm young, like a lot of adults tell me.

Something potentially driving is there is a perception of this sub prevalent on much of reddit that it's "just whiny kids bitching because their parents were 'mean'", so any time a post hits /r/all it's going to bring in people who DO. NOT. GET. IT. and never will. Combine that with an incessant need to be contrarian and you end up with the kind of awful people who come in to crap all over a post from a younger user.

You know, I totally forgot r/all existed, and that's a scary thought to entertain, random strangers who don't know a lick about Narc abuse or are just a particular brand of asshat swooping in on someone who's already kinda vulnerable.

I still have to live with my nmom and this is super true. People don't act like it's abuse. They call it disapline and tough love and other words that work for normal punishments and such but not being screamed at for no reason and gaslit about what has happened to you.

I agree. Of course, I’m 18, but I had a narc step mom. Thankfully I was finally able to move out and live full time with my mom (I had to travel between houses on a schedule, which was hell) but I won’t forget all the gaslighting and mental abuse she put me through, and the fact that my dad did nothing.
Kids deserve to be listened to. My problems were always brushed off. I couldn’t ever talk about how badly I felt because it was ingrained in me that my problems didn’t matter, others had it worse, I was overreacting and being a teenager.
People who post here? Aren’t just ‘being a teenager’ they need help and support. OP, good on you for posting this. I hope people treat the teens here better, because even though I’m out, I still don’t have total control... thank you, OP.

Im so sorry thats been happening. Ive been off reddit for a bit so I haven't seen any of it. You have every right to be upset by that. We should all know that its never just the thing being vented about. It years of hurt, abuse, and trauma all piled up. We should be a group who gets that!

Seeing that stuff is kinda why I'm scared of sharing stories. Especially since some of these stories are absolutely unbelievable. I cannot understand how ones logic can be so twisted like my parents. It just sounds fake.

Worst part is. I'm in my 20's, I'm old enough to be fully capable to care for myself. But with all the times I've been forcefully pulled out of school, as well as being banned from looking for work (I lookbbehind her back and still haven't been lucky to land work) I'm in this position where I'm stuck right now, but I'm scared of being seen as lazy, complaining or even a liar.

I wish we could comb through it all -- but we have over 400,000 subscribers now and hundreds of posts a day. And our mod team is very small, considering the traffic and the emotional workload of trying to keep trolls out of this place. So yes -- please report! It helps us tremendously!

When I was a teenager, I'd get abused pretty frequently. If I had sex with one of the girls I knew back then and my family found out about it. They'd probably disown me and throw me out on the streets. For the record, I'm an adult, but I can't afford to live anywhere else. And still, my parents would freak out if they knew about any of the girls I've dated thus far. I've actually had to break up with a few women, because they wanted to meet my parents and wouldn't listen when I tried to explain that my parents are crazy.

Yep. People tend to forget about that rule and don’t understand that some people don’t have the time, money, or resources to leave or move. I’m 19, in college, and work as well. I’m still living at home and still have to deal with my ndad. I don’t tell them about my sex life or drug use (marijuana to deal with ptsd so I can sleep and be a functional human being). You can be a goody two shoes and older people will still find ways to say things to make you feel like you have no right to vent and might as well keep it to yourself and end up suffering. I dealt with that all throughout childhood and I won’t take it anymore. Fuck everyone who thinks a child/teenager has to deal with abuse simply because they’re young, even if the way they described it was vague. If it was vague, ask for info instead.

I'm not a young folk and I was ridiculed for posting in here. I just deleted it and decided to refrain from posting again. I've found that YouTube (narc videos specifically) are a better place to talk about the topic, at least for me. Sorry you had a bad experience though, hope things get better for you soon!

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

This 100%. It was so difficult for me to see my mother's abuse as actual abuse because people assumed I was being a typical and bratty teenager.

I'm 19, but still live with my parents because I want to finish college before searching for a job. Even at this age, I'm terrified of getting professional help because I'm afraid of the abuse being boiled down to me being ungrateful.

This is a place for people to support one another and learn that they are not alone. We should be encouraging people and lifting people up. Admitting that you're dealing with this issue and unloading it is hard enough.

Perspective, in my experience, is no easy thing for people to understand. Even other abuse victims can have trouble with this. Good on you for calling this to attention. Moderators, I'm looking to you for a PSA to this effect.

We're diving deep on this thread, since it is already at the top of the front page and will be seen by many people. There is also now a mod comment at the top of the comments to clarify the position of the mod team on this topic.

Well that just makes me furious.
I haven't been coming here for quite a while now. I'm about to hit my 30's and was posting in a bit of a fragile state a while ago and got responses that were along the lines of "that's just how it was back then" and "you're over-exaggerating". People treated me like I as offering myself up for judgement not support. I specified I was in a bad state and needed comfort. It felt like, because the situation I was talking about was when I was a young child, people just didn't want to take a child seriously. I was blown away and haven't felt safe here since.
I'll always call out and report the people that do that, now and forever. This place isn't "Am I The A**hole", we don't post here for judgement. Also, for the people who like to point out "liars", I report you the fastest because I'd rather 9 real stories and 1 fake receive support rather than all of us pick and chose who to believe.

And thank you for yours and other mods hard work making this place safe and inclusive. You guys are amazing.
Only last week I sent someone here for support I couldn't really give. It feels great knowing we may not have a loving family, but we do have a mostly loving community which is especially impressive considering the backgrounds we've come from. I'll keep on reporting the self appointed judges and yal just keep being great.

Today no less than 20 minutes ago my mother decided to want to kick me out and go to court and evict me after we went to the social security office and I told her and the worker I didn't want her as my payee. She decided to yell and attack me and use the same bullshit she has been is insane. Having to deal with people that are narcissistic on top of feeling like shit, people not believing you and broke as fuck. Is difficult. I want them out of my life. But when you have no where to go and no money what can we do. Take the abuse and the gaslighting. I used to think family was supposed to be together and you won't have friends that stay with you but that fact is no longer so.

I'll never forget feeling disregarded not just by my parents but my peers and the adults in my life. If anything take a kid more seriously show them the right way to deal with things. They're not getting any support and I think we've all collectively suffered from not knowing how to react to things as adults. If anything they're way more emotionally vulnerable plus trapped in their situation. I don't want to bash the group but if extra empathy is one of our defining characteristics then please use it!

I noticed that too. My guess is that nobody wants to feel vulnerable and helpless, and I think we as adults may be projecting onto the kids here. Who really wants to admit that they got treated like a bag of garbage and a pile of shit, and was absolutely powerless to stop it? It’s just easier to shame somebody who is currently in that position. Think it convinces some people that there was a choice about being abused as a child. Probably eases the pain for people , but it’s wrong.

If you see it, PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

People are just normalising abuse of teens at this point, and it's scary. I've been told multiple times that I'm crazy for not liking my parents, and then I'm being forced to talk about why I don't like them and criticized. I have social anxiety, anxiety, trust issues, attachment issues and a whole bundle of other problems, and being told "they don't mean it" is not helping at all.

I'm a younger poster here (15) and I would honestly cry if I came to a support sub and got bashed for not having the Most Amazing Parents Ever™. No, it's not my fault, and thank you for strengthening my distrust is everyone.

Absolutely nothing your parents have done to you is your fault, honey. Such is the way of the child of the narcissist. Just know that for every jackass who comments, there's usually about twenty ACoNs waiting in the wings to downvote them to hell, excuse my language.

The process of going through abuse is a cycle, parents abuse you for years, you tend to do the same things to other people in the future because it was normalized during a big part of your life. This is what gets most people, because one of the purposes of this sub is exactly the opposite, break this cycle. I was really expecting some validation posts or comments in this sub because it would be just normal and people make mistakes and all that, but what we get here is people just being ignorant for free.

If you see it, PLEASE report it to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

I noticed this behaviour, especially in the story about the 15 year old. Some of the NASTY comments almost made me puke and cry. This subreddit is supposed to be a SUPPORT GROUP! Heck, I think the authors of the bad comments are NARCISSIST ABUSERS THEMSELVES that somehow got into this subreddit! Younger people are the most vulnerable to narc abuse and manipulation (I've felt this on my own skin).

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

A mod commented somewhere above that it's difficult for them to read all the comments, and sometimes things don't get flagged, possibly because people aren't sure whether what they're looking at is invalidating--their "normal meter" is off from years of being gaslit themselves. So yes and no--they don't let it fly when it's brought to their attention, but not everything gets brought up, you feel? I don't blame anybody for that--this is a heckin' huge subreddit. I had just been seeing a lot of it lately and it was disheartening, so I vented into the wind, more or less.

I'm so sorry this happened to your friend. Those things were 100% not okay.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

Thank you, I appreciate it. She’s in a really bad spot until fall, when she gets to leave for university. We’re talking medical neglect; financial, emotional/psychological, and bordering on physical abuse; constant gaslighting and silent treatment/lovebombing cycles; alcoholic dad with no spine; narc mom who lies constantly; and a house that should be condemned. Oh, and a wealth of mental health issues that could be managed with medication — if her mom didn’t try to steal all her meds...

I steered her here to find solace and support. Instead she had people doing the whole “why don’t you just leave” song and dance, and then was mocked when she tried to explain to them that she literally has zero money to do so and has nowhere she can go other than being homeless. (Did I mention the financial abuse? Yikes.)

She has since deleted the post, or else I’d send you right to it. But I don’t think she’s come back here since, or to any of the JustNo subs where she could get some really helpful advice from those who could give it. I’ve helped her as much as I can by walking her through things I’ve learned here in the last year, but it’s often difficult because, well, I didn’t grow up like she has. It’s easy for me to say, “Oh, you just need to grayrock her!” when I’m not the one sitting in the room being guilt-tripped by a narc mom, or with an enabling alcoholic dad who also likes to push buttons so he can get her to explode in order to play the victim.

I’m sorry this comment got long. I just feel kinda helpless sometimes when I give her advice. She can’t afford therapy at the moment and has always been told, “Oh you can’t tell anyone about what happens inside this faaaaamily.” The guilt buttons they installed are powerful and very deep. I do what I can, but I’m only a first year psych major...which means I understand very little and the advice I can give is limited.

Honestly? If I lived any closer to her, I would’ve already driven out there and gotten her. Had her sleep on my couch for a few months.

Insisting that people leave can be just as unrealistic as suggesting NC for every poster. It's important to meet people where they are at, and that includes if they live at home or have other reasons for having contact with their Nparent.

I see many who are referring to the disbelief they've experienced from others - particularly in youth - and it is upsetting in a remembrance way. Sometimes they won't believe it until they experience it themselves.

My aunt (nmom's sister) used to think I was just a troubled teen. I'm guessing that's how the whole family felt, especially after I got pregnant at 18 with only a high school equivalency diploma. I loved spending time with my aunt (only 12 years older than me), but I don't recall her being supportive of my stories of abuse (physical and emotional). When she and her husband were getting ready to move into a new house, they put their existing place up for sale. It sold before their new home was done, so they needed a place to stay for a few months. My nmom had remarried and moved in with him, so my childhood home was unoccupied. She agreed to let them stay rent free if they would fix up the place so she could sell it. They jumped at the chance.

My aunt then saw the holes in the walls, where I had kicked them during arguments with my nmom. Then my nmom made them sign a contract that spelled out everything they had to do, down to cleaning out the window tracks with q-tips, in order to avoid being billed rent. That was the first inkling they had of how controlling she was. I don't know what all transpired, but I do remember my aunt apologizing for not believing me for all of those years. Shortly after moving, they needed a car with better gas mileage (the new house was well out of town). Nmom to the rescue again, selling them her 15 year old car (Honda accord hatchback) for $1k. A major repair came shortly thereafter, and nmom didn't care whatsoever about it - her reasoning was that they got a good deal and she could've sold it to someone else for more, so they'd have to use the "savings" to fix it.

I also noticed people talking about having a visual injury to support the abuse. This is the mindset that led me to cutting at 15. Even then, with bandages on my wrists, people didn't say anything. I think most people don't want to know if you're being abused... It's complicated and there are so many variables that they don't know how to respond/react to it. That was almost 30 years ago-I hope things have changed since then.

I'm truly sorry if I've ever belittled someone's experiences - I don't believe I have, but if I did, I am sorry. We all need more belief and understanding ❤

Circa 5 minutes ago. My mom asked me if I thought she was a narcissist, I said yes. I told her how she has treated me and how she has hurt me. She basically pulled a "pic or it didn't happen" and " All I have ever done is lovingly DISCIPLINED you". I gave her examples and told her about how she ignores our therapist. She went to her laptop during our discussion and put earbuds in and just blatantly started ignoring me. She does this all the time, she just realized he argument isn't going her way, and blocks me out somehow. I have immense amounts of anxiety and stress from my home, it's getting worse. I used to have a great relationship with my mom but it's going downhill because I'm not a kid anymore, she can treat me however she wants.i have immeasurable anger building up inside of me that I don't know how to get rid of. All I want to do is cry, and I'm a tough 14 m. I want to leave the house for a bit, my mom has openly welcomed me to do so. Please help me, I don't know what to do.

You're still tough as nails, even if you do cry. The idea that boys can't/don't cry is a stupid social conditioning--I'm a twenty year old man and I still cry over things like my Nmom, stress at work, or, most recently, that darn Pokemon movie...but I digress. You should take the opportunity, if you can, to step away from the house for awhile. It will help, and you'll get a bit of an idea what it's like being out from under that--a taste of freedom, if you will. You can rest, gather yourself, and come up with a strategy to deal with her until you are old enough to decide for yourself how you want to proceed (No Contact, for example). If you'd like more advice, PM me. I don't mind talking with you.

Hey, thanks so much for your kind words, i could use some advice. I want to have a calm discussion with my mom about her ect. But I don't think it will end well. As I've heard from others, it's probably no use. Do you think I should? Or should I wait to have it during s counseling session?

Well, that depends. What's the goal of your discussion? Are you trying to bring something to her attention? Are you just trying to get something off your chest? My immediate answer would be no, probably not a good idea or worth it, but the details do matter. Is this counselor one you share? How have they been so far in handling the two of you? Do they seem to know and be able to handle what narcissism is?

I want to talk to her about all the things she does to hurt me. I don't think it would be any use. The counselor seems to be on my side and regularly corrects the warped perspective of my parents. Although this sounds like good news, my parents don't listen. They just nod and smile and ignore the instruction given. It's somewhat hopeless.

I'm going to be honest with you, it...probably won't. Though you do have an advantage in a counselor that seems to give a damn about you, and I'd take advantage of that. Are you always seeing your counselor in joint sessions with your parents, or do you get the opportunity to talk alone?

I've only had one session alone, where I told stories about my dad which were pretty bad and she seemed to be surprised that " my nice dad" would do that sort of thing. He only other sessions were with my dad and they don't help, I want the next one to be with my mom, instead of talking with her now.

I'm glad you've gotten support! That's what we're here for. The surprise can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how that counselor is, and it can go either way really, so I would say prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

If you can talk to your counselor alone, she may help you develop tools to cope at home, which is probably a better way to go for you than confronting your mom. I know you want closure, I did too at your age, but it doesn't really matter how many come-to-Jesus meetings you have with your narc, the only thing that changes (in my experience, and that does not make me an expert) is that sometimes your narc can get pissed and retaliate because you threatened their image of themselves by implying they did something wrong.

Yeah you're spot on with the "threatening when threatened" sort of thing. That's he main thing that sets my mom off. She says "how dare you, as a person younger than me, give me advice!!" And proceeds to punish me. The biggest blessing is my having my brothers old iPod without my mom knowing, so I can get help in situations like this, and combined with loving people of Reddit, I'm doing better Han I would have been without you guys.

I'm very glad to hear that. And while I am usually scuttling about the world doing things required of me to live (like working), I'm always around if you want to talk. I'll be a bit sparse this month since I'm on my way overseas for business/school, but not to worry! I will return!

IF YOU WERE RAISED IN A NARCISSIST HOUSEHOULD, YOU MAY HAVE DEVELOPED A PERSONALITY DISORDER. IF YOURE THE DICKHEADS SAYING THAT A 15YO SHOULD VE STARVED FOR DOING WHAT 15YO DO THEN GO GET YOURSELF SOME FUCKING MENTAL HELP OR YOU WILL TURN INTO YOUR PARENTS

Well at 15 I was to terrified to even try to have it. Because I was constantly called a whore and a slut. To many of my friends had been sexually abused and more than one was promiscuous and had pregnancy scares. I am sorry if lots of the comments haven’t been overly supportive but sometimes for lots of folks it’s hard to remember that we too were just treated as whining children because unless your showing up beaten and bloody or fresh from a attempted suicide that you are being neglected which also is abuse

i posted here once but I deleted it because people were asking about what my mom "did" to me and my siblings to gauge whether it was "bad enough." first thought that went through my mind is how they seemingly didn't read the rules at all.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

I think there is a general discontent towards teenagers in general. They as a whole (at least in the US) are viewed as entitled and needing to step up. Sorry... Some adults and their advice has grown REALLY bitter. There really is no pleasing those who respond so callously.

Maybe you have it better than they do, and they're envious.

Maybe they don't believe you.

Maybe they have nothing better to do than respond with some snarky, smart-ass, rude, useless response.

I agree. I’m 28 and have only recently realized how bad my mother was. So these younger people are already realizing something isn’t right and it gives me so much hope that they can have a good life for catching it so early.

I feel like we should have a buddy system or mentor program if the younger people want to vent or need advice or even just support. Breaking away from an Nparent is difficult and if I had someone to guide me I feel like I would be years ahead of when I am now

I’m still a teenager, I wouldn’t want to be treated like that either, and I understand just how hard it is to have a parent like that because my dad is actually verbally abusive. I mean he’s only ever hit me like twice but no matter what it’s still abuse and I guess some people don’t understand what it’s really like to have a parent like that

Yeah probably. He is an asshole most of the time but then there’s the times he’s actually nice to me and then it confuses me and I feel guilty for hating him as much as I do. Sometimes I realize that and I tell myself that doesn’t matter because he’s not a good person. He’s also said things to me like “you’d better love me” and other variations of that sentence, of course everytime I hesitate to tell him that I do but it’s better off to appease him than making it worse

I’ve only posted on this sub once for this reason, I didn’t want my age to invalidate me. I just finished my first year of college and moved back into my nmoms house yesterday, I’ve been wanting to vent on here about how it’s going, but I’m worried I’d get told to be grateful I have somewhere to go. Which, obviously is a good thing, but that doesn’t make this a good thing.

OP, I am sorry you have experienced a lack of support here. That happened to me on another forum early in my recovery and it was very retraumatizing. Personally I have yet to see anyone be really invalidating on this sub, but of course this is not to say that narcs don't get on here and narc. The mods here seem really excellent to me so far. Maybe give your posts a few hours before you read the responses, so the mods have time to see and kick any trolls off?

The mods cannot read all of the comments -- this sub gets far too much traffic for that to be possible. Instead we need people to report things when they see them. Let us know, and we will take care of it!

This, this here is the exact reason why I havent told anyone except my counselor and therapist. I'm afraid I'll be put off as that hormonal teenager who is just being overdramatic. When in reality...its verbal abuse...

Thank you! Not a teenager, but it's important to treat the teenagers on this sub reddit with respect! Just being young doesn't mean they don't share our experiences. The way I was treated when I tried to ask for help because of my Nparent when I was 13, led to ten more years of not understanding what was happening in my family. It silenced me and made me think that my family problems were all because of me being an ungrateful teenager!

I’ve seen people making similar comments on other posts about things such as that being part of why some people have a harder time speaking up, seeking help, etc. It’s counterproductive to disregard anyone coming to this sub for advice and support.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

Sometimes they overlap! And your parent doesn't have to be diagnosed as a narc for you to post here--due to the nature of NPD, a lot of us will never get a formal diagnosis for our Ns. I'd encourage you to post a few memories/stories here just to see what kind of response you get, and you can proceed from there. We get "was this abuse/narcissism/etc" posts here all the time.

This is why I typically avoid saying my age until I’m at the end of my post or in the comments to avoid shit like this. I act like an adult according to my friends in maturity so it’s not much of an issue. People just kind of assume whatever age they want. (I’m 14 btw)

I had no idea this was happening. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I'm going to make more of an effort to find and report comments like the kind you describe. Completely unacceptable. This needs to be a safe space for victims of narcissistic abuse, not a courtroom where one has to prove themselves.

Most teenagers butt heads with their parents, so people will often assume the child/teenager must have done SOMETHING to initiate it. I remember this so clearly and painfully, how my cries for help, understanding and compassion were always met with skepticism first. Like I had to have concrete proof in order to be believed, which is usually hard to get when dealing with a narcissist. And this isolation made the abuse so much worse. But people on this sub should damn well know better and to any teenagers reading this, I promise that your feelings and experiences are absolutely valid. And I'm so sorry if anyone has ever made you feel otherwise.

Honestly, OP, I get that a lot in this thread lately. I come here to share my struggles and seek advice from wiser people...except that I get treated poorly or ignored altogether.

I won't name names but I have had users make sweeping generalizations about my situations or making edgy jokes that I do not appreciate. Some people even tend to side with the narcissists.

I thought people were supposed to be understanding in this subreddit. One user even attempted to start drama by linking my profile page so they and their friends could laugh about my struggles. They were supposedly a victim of NParents and yet, have no qualms about humiliating me and deriving enjoyment from my suffering and encouraging others to do the same.

This person wasn't a troll. They were just bottom feeding scum. They were a member of RBN at one point and they had no self awareness. They did what their mother did to them, only to me.

They posted and made extremely inaccurate (and idiotic) assumptions about my life and what little details they got from me. They stretched out the truth until it wasn't believable anymore. The suspension of disbelief had gone into pure fantasy and they tried so hard to paint me as the bad guy.

They oversimplified the things I explained in my posts. They didn't see that things my parents were doing as veiled insults. They didn't understand what it's like, they just tailored that information to suit their needs and used that as ammo to harm me.

That's wild. Can't believe something like that was allowed to happen. I am so sorry that happened, they really were acting terribly and I wouldn't have had much patience for them. Did you ever get rid of them?

Yep. I'm surprised that they don't have less friends if they behave like this. I was really sangry about this person posting about me but they will get their comeuppance sooner or later. I'll get over it.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

I think some of it comes from wanting the person to get away from the abuse. I don't comment on here much but I've encountered abused teens in real life and they think I'm being mean and not understanding when I tell them they need to get out as soon as possible. Always tons of reasons why they can't, almost always financially reasons.

Every day with abusive parents damages you more. I left at 18, fled their house, smart thing I've ever done. My sister stayed for years. The additional damage to her is damn near unbelievable and she was the favorite. She has panic attacks in her sleep. I hope one day she'll be able to have a healthy relationship with someone but it's not looking good.

For the teens in this forum, you don't have parents! Think of yourselves as abuse victims in a state run orphanage who are about to age out of the system. Make plans, sleeping on the couch of a friend with sympathetic parents is better than damaging yourself with more abuse. You may never recover if you stay and endure more abuse.

If you wouldn't let a random man from craigslist abuse you for a room in his home and some college money, don't let your parents do it. Get out. There is hope. Yes, it will be harder than the young adult lives of people with good parents. It's always going to be though. And even if you do whatever they want, they can still destroy your life while you're with them and you'll have to start over anyways, just with even more years lost. Make those plans, get out as fast as you can. Unfortunately most people won't believe you or save you. You have to save yourself. It's terrifying but it's the only way to stop the damage.

OP, it gives me no pleasure to say that you are right. But if I've learned anything from being raised by narcissists, to be right for the sake of being right is god damn awful and very very wrong. There is enough blame to go around here. The reality of this sub is that this is a community of broken people who've had awful role models and social cues for maturity, wisdom, and fortitude. Far too few of us have really truly developed the right attitude and coping skills to face down the adversities we have developed a habit for unpacking here. Venting is a way for many of us to relieve pressure in our lives and find solace from those who understand. But honestly, there isn't necessarily a good defining line between commiserating and wallowing. And for all the comfort and support some of us get here, not every one has the right mental compass to help others solve some of the same underlying problems that bring ourselves misery. In the end, it is important to recognize that this is, afterall, reddit. While the mods, bless their hearts, do an amazing job of keeping order and facilitating constructive interaction, /r/raisedbynarcissists is no substitute for professional help, be it qualified facilitator lead support groups, one-on-one counseling, or whatever resources might be available to you. I hear where you are coming from, but I while I don't condone the negativity, I do ask that people recognize that what comes off as annoying, insulting, or offensive speaks to the commenter's state of mind and opinions more than it reflects as moral judgement upon the subject of the comment. I don't really know what else to say that my actually be useful. Except, try to be good to each other, and do better than has been done unto us.

As a teen on here, thank you. I've been afraid to make my own posts on here because of this behavior, and needed the reminder that even though I am young, I am still capable of recognizing and trying to counter my mother's abusive behavior.

yup. i’m 16f and i’ve seen this but thankfully have gotten the nicer end of things because of the way i’m able to handle my situation (trying to get out at an early age). thank you for posting this, it’s nice to see some people be supportive

I especially feel bad for the posts that start something like “I don’t know if they are narcs or this is me being angsty...” Yes they are narcs. No you’re not being over dramatic and your feelings are valid. There’s a clear difference between an angsty teen and ACoN. An angsty teen will probably grow out it while aCoN will continue harboring resentment toward their nParents well into adulthood, and will have a good reason to do so. And that “teen angst” when you’re raised by narcissists is not angst, it’s years of emotional abuse, control, and gaslighting. Even they turn 18, it’s hard to “just move out” if you’re still not able to financially support yourself.

I recently got backlash instead of support on a post I would have gotten support on a year ago. It was about my mom intentionally cooking food that makes me sick. And they all blamed me and asked why I’m letting her cook for me. I got quizzes and questioned and doubted. It seems like there are narcs lurking around trolling people

Yeah, you're not wrong. Not to mention some people seem to think you become magically financially independent once you wise up to the abuse, and that's not the case. If you're still living with your mom I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you can't afford your own food. Or that you can't cook it without her sabotaging you in some way. Why do I assume? My mom did the same thing.

PLEASE report things like this to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when you see rule-breaking comments.

Removed for victim-blaming and generalization. While it might be true, we should assume the best until proven otherwise. If you see users breaking the rules, report them, and the mods will attend to it.

One of the most ubiquitous problems many of us had as children was that others would excuse our abuser's behavior. Why would anyone do that to someone coming here for support and guidance? If anyone knows how that feels, it's us.

That might be true, but they seem to do their damage before then, as most of the posts where I've seen this behavior usually have an edit along the lines of "Since so many people jumped on this one detail..." which is a little disheartening to say the least. It is nice to see people downvote comments made in bad faith though.

Thank you fo bringing it up.
The sad truth is that many RBN will en up becoming Narcissists themselves... or at least deeply scarred.
One trait I’ve seen in myself in the past is being triggered by “whimps crying when they are not having it that bad, I had it worse.” Thank goodness for therapy.
Kind of what happens in that scene in “As Good as it gets” where Jack Nicholson keeps overstepping on the conversation to prove HE had the worst childhood and Craig Kinnear is just a crybaby. (I am not that old, just love the film.)

Dental bills are so expensive. I am still paying off my bills from last March, and I am 24. It was over $1200 and I am just about to pay it off, so I can’t even imagine being 18 and paying for college trying to pay that off. I was only able to go to college since I got student loans after I got married, so I can use the money towards the dental bills unlike him.

I lost everyone in my life when I finally stood up to my abusive Narc mother. No-one believed me and thought me dramatic. I lost everyone and now have far better people in my life. That still doesn't negate how painful it was to not be believed by all of my friends and family. To this day they still think im a vile human being who made up stories. I know my truth. I will always believe those who share on here. ❤

I'm sorry if this was badly formulated. I didn't mean harm to you. What I meant was that outside the US, laws about sex aren't that strict or set such a high age as requirement. So it's always a bit weird to read. Maybe it's just me. Again, I'm sorry for the confusion.

No, you're fine! I was just confused as to what you meant. And you're right, though I'm sure nasty opinions of young and/or unmarried people having sex exist everywhere, due to religion and other things--but the US is probably the worst, as it is about many things.

My parents were not narcissists, my dad had tendencies, but he worked to not be one. And I am well past being a teen. But there was still some shit from my youth that makes me mad to this day. On a sub all about looking for a common ground, getting assistance and venting one should be able to post without getting trashed. Especially when you are young and need direction. If you think someone is being a big baby, you cans till edit your response with empathy. And always remember 1 story is not their whole life, there could be much, much more. Walk a mile in their shoes.

I would feel that way if it weren't that while I was dealing with my parents narcissism I did nothing but be responsible. I worked to support them, I still made straight A's, I didn't go out and do things to get in trouble. I never even talked back through their craziness.

However, I have seen some people confuse them overreacting with them having Nparents. Not that much, and I'm certain others are doing the r/thanksimcured method of just telling them to get over things, but some of them I'd really like to call out for being spoiled and trying to co opt the term to rationalize their feelings of entitlement.

Thank you so much!! I’m 18 and every once in a while I post here, but honestly I’m fearful every time that I’ll get at least one response just practically saying “well that’s the way it is, idiot. You think you deserve any better?” No actual support offered, but my shitty feelings are instead reinforced by this stranger who is refusing to be helpful. You don’t even have to say anything. These people are using energy to open the comments, type out why I’m stupid or whatever, and post it. Why the fuck would someone do that? Isn’t this the place where we find refuge for having similar parental and psychological experiences? It almost makes me wonder if someone’s NParent is running rampant commenting weird shit on all the posts bc they found out their kid posted something about them on here.

Seeing the post surprised me, I didn't know there were people like that here. Why aren't they being kicked out? Normally children are narcissist are able to understand abuse better than anyone else and don't victim blame like that. That's horrible, whoever said those things needs to be reminded what it feels like to be that young. I'm never going to forget how horrible my underage years were with my parents, especially my toddler years (I know we're talking about teens, but my point is that even tho that was forever ago, I'm never going to be like, "well i don't have to deal with that anymore so oh well").

The mods handle rule-breaking comments when we know about them. Unfortunately, because this sub gets so much traffic, it is impossible for us to read all of the comments. So we rely on user reports to let us know when something needs to be addressed.

PLEASE report things to the mods when you see them. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it. Please let us know when something needs our attention.

I admit that it's hard to remember what it was like being a teenager. That was half a lifetime ago. Even with that, there is no excuse here for ANYONE to be a douchebag to people seeking help.

It's sometimes hard to remember the rule about assuming the abuse is true because of how crazy some of these stories are. But then I remember back to being a young man and some of the crazy stories like having to call the house ahead of time to make sure that ndad was wearing pants before I brought anyone over or how he went off on an hour long screaming tirade because he couldn't parallel park and hit the marker chair more times than I did while practicing. Or the countless times I was treated like a slave in my own house when he was home because he was "too tired" from work to get his fat ass off of the couch and grab the remote control from the far side of the table or get a snack from the kitchen.

From the month or so that I've been here, most everyone is kind and generous. I say most because there are a couple comments I see from time to time that are rather douchy. Fortunately they're few and far between, but we have to remember that people come here for help because they can't go anywhere else. No one in the real world believes them. But we can because we've been through the gaslighting and the narc masks. We've seen the temper tantrums thrown by grown adults over the tiniest little things and felt the abuse spewed at us for not being a mind reader and knowing exactly what they wanted.

Remember, the world is a different place for teens now than it was even 20 years ago. For the old heads here, it's entirely new. The Internet was still fresh and cool when I was a teen. Google wasn't even invented yet, let alone social media.

If you see a rule-breaking comment, PLEASE report it to the mods. This sub has a ton of traffic and we rely on our users to let us know when things need our attention. If we don't know about it, then we can't take care of it.

Yeah I posted here a WHILE back when I was still figuring out the whole Nparent thing and people tried convincing me that I was just spoiled. After having nearly every boyfriend call me spoiled for demanding EQUAL respect - that shit was triggering af.

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That is very frustrating. My nMIL jacked up my wife and her siblings so bad that it took my wife being out from under her mother's roof nearly 30 years before she could cope like a normal person. Her siblings still a mess.
I refer to her mother as detonating her nuclear family.

Trying to get away from dependency from an nparent is so hard, so seeing that first story broke my heart, as i still have financial ties to my family that makes it hard to 100% cut the cord, so to speak.

​

A lot of people have this "they're just a bratty kid" ideal when seeing these stories. It's incredibly hurtful to have that repeated and deal with the invalidation, it makes the victim doubt their own experiences.

I wish I could give you a gold and a platinum. I guess its a genetic thing. It's in them as well.

Bottom line, either get treated or you will be ten times the devil your parents were, and your parents might still hate you because you have became just as bad as they are. Probably even more. Only they can torture, you get tortured more for doing what is in your inner traumatised self!

I did hate that. But now as someone who has teen stepson and a pre-teen son, I also know that there's a lack of perspective suffered by those that age. I also see teenage posters saying 'parents should never do blah, blah' when parents often have to do blah, blah.

I also know that I STILL am most upset about the 'small stuff' the endless power tripping and trigger pressing stuff that my mother did to me, the little comments - than I am about some of the stuff that is most obviously abuse (hitting, money stealing etc) - and I'm only just now starting to realise the neglect bit. So sometimes people don't get how sometimes that small and 'reasonable' stuff is actually where a lot of the abuse is occurring because of the way it's done - which can be hard to get across in a reddit post.

Personally - for me - I find this Reddit not as useful to me as it could be because it's full of teens complaining both justifiably and what appears to me unjustifiably about the parents that they live with or are about to leave. (And when I say unjustifiably - I mean I can't tell if it's an unjustifiable complaint or a poorly articulated complaint). I am just in a different stage of life.

That's a perfectly valid viewpoint! I'm honestly relieved to see people recognizing things early and trying to disengage from the situation, but hell, I'm barely out of my teens and even I have a hard time reading between the lines on some posts. I agree with you on the little things being the most upsetting sometimes--things that would have been okay with a reasonable parent become significantly less so because of the nature of your Nparent.

I'm 52 and I still remember the abuse vividly. I was the scapegoat child and was treated like dirt. I remember being shunned by my family as a little kid, my own family members didnt acknowledge my presence, like I was invisible, itf i talked no one answered. My older sisters were high school dropout heroin addicts adn my parents treated them like treasures. I was the class valedictorian, and no one in my family attended my gradiation, or my wedding, or my baby shower, or any of my kids baptisms. It was just an unwritten rule in the family and I never knew why. Being ignored was a blessing because the alternative was being slapped, pushed down the stairs or drug up the stairs by my hair. I was suicidal when I was a teenager and I dknt think anyone knew or cared. I wentvon to be in an abusive marriage and having a nervous breakdown at 49. I'm now living with a loving wonderful man. His daughter has borderline personality disorder. This is a whole other animal. Her thrill in life is to manufacture drama and she plays puppeteer to all the people in her life who are her puppets. She tells alternate versions of events to garner sympathy, pity, anger, whatever she wants. Then she swiftly tries to destroy anyone who sets the record straight or enforces any type of discipline. I'm not sure if this is what people are referring to with their comments, " she deserved it." I actually witnessed my partner sitting and reading the paper and his daughter attacked him because he wouldn't let her have his car. Then she went around saying to anyone who would hear that he attacked her and her hands hurt from trying to defend herself. I was a witness and said to her your hand hurt from punching your dad and that's why he has two black eyes and you have no marks on you. She then went to great lengths to try to discredit me and scrounge up dirt on me. It just unreal. Nothing like I've ever seen before.

MOD NOTE: Assuming a context of abuse is one of the cardinal rules of this sub. It is NOT okay for people to dismiss the stories posted by our younger users. If you see any comments of this variety, REPORT THE COMMENT TO THE MODS.

RBN is for everyone who needs support dealing with abusive, narcissistic parents, full stop. There is no minimum age requirement to be taken seriously here.

I agree, but keep in mind that there's also the flip side, which is that fakers diminish the suffering and attention f real sufferes.

I recall a post here where a wife (or was it the daughter?) posted that the dad had to be a narcissist cause he grounded the 13 year old daughter for buying thong underwear. Most people on this sub seemed to agree it was narcissism and not just a fully normal behavior, if considered strict by some.

Here's the thing I learned and read about narcissism:

If someone is treating you poorly once in a while, that's normal

If someone is treating you poorly all the time, that's narcissism

Narcissists are horrible people. I knew from a young age that my father was a psychopath. I would never say stuff like "otherwise he is ok and cares for me", cause he didn't. At all. He was just trash, all the time, just various degrees of being an asshole.

So when someone comes in and calls a man a narcissist for grounding a 13 year old girl who bought grown up lingerie, then yeah, how about no. I would see it as very counterproductive if narcissism becomes a catch all for people you don't like.

In addition, and this is well documented, calling someone else a narcissist, projecting, is in fact common with narcissists.

Sure, there may be the odd case of someone venting about a trivial thing, but that doesn't invalidate what the rest of this community is experiencing. Even those odd cases that seem trivial on the surface don't necessarily show the full picture.

Any given post is a single snapshot of that person's life. A post can deal with a particular facet of a wider system of abuse. In one post, a person might not want to or be able to depict the complete context.

That's why we have a rule of assuming a context of abuse. It's so that people don't have write out all the painful details each time they post, or "prove" that they're being abuse enough to warrant support.

We'd rather get occasional false positives than create hurdles for people who need help. Nobody is under any obligation to provide support. If a post doesn't resonate with you, you can just move on to something that does. Fake posts don't in fact diminish the suffering of anybody here, nor detract from the real posts.

What hurts people who are suffering is an atmosphere of doubt, and a fear of not being believed. We'd rather create a safe haven where people can share whatever they need to share, without being scared of being invalidated or disbelieved.

I hear you, and I understand. But I can't entirely agree. Because so many of my friends, and myself, and posters here would genuinely say "my parent is great and very caring, other than [insert this clearly and blatantly narcississtic/abusive thing]," when we first started posting here--I know I did. It seems to be a symptom of your "normal meter" being fucked up by gaslighting and lies and such (that thing people keep talking about here which, while I can't define it exactly, I can say its health is a good indicator of how far into the F.O.G./gaslighting you are).

And while what you read about narcissism is true, you're not really coming off as arguing in good faith. Yes, I'm sure there are people here who complain about things that don't constitute as narcissistic abuse, but here's the thing: them getting support doesn't take away from others who need support on this sub, that's not really how it works. Someone posting on here about their parent being unfair/poor to them once isn't going to guarantee that someone else doesn't get the help they need. The "teenager calls her dad a narc for not letting her buy lingerie" thing? Really comes off as you either not having the whole story or making this an appeal to extremes.

He was just trash, all the time, just various degrees of being an asshole.

I'm sorry your dad was like that. But that's not how all Ns are. Some are very good at love-bombing and putting on a mask and confusing the hell out of you and gaslighting you until you genuinely don't know if they're a good albeit flawed parent or a genuine abuser. So please try not to diminish others' experiences because abuse doesn't look the same for everyone. That's a dangerous thing to imply here.

In addition, and this is well documented, calling someone else a narcissist, projecting, is in fact common with narcissists.

That's a dangerous and shitty thing to say here. I'm not pulling any punches with you here. At all. This is a support sub for people abused by narcissists--of course people are going to call someone else a narcissist. And some of us have been accused of being the narcissist by their N. You don't know who you could send into an absolute crisis saying something like that, because they've been abused and now they're wondering if they were wrong and the bad guy all this time...sound familiar?

It should. Because that's DARVO. Narcissists turn shit back on you. Don't do that to someone else, even unintentionally.

Also, going back to the underwear example, I wasn't going to put my feminist pants on today, but I think I will now. Grounding a girl for buying a thong? Maybe reasonable, if you had previously prohibited her from doing that. But here's the thing: I don't think I trust anyone to know all the details of that except the OP. Because if that was an N, I'm sure there was a good dose of slut-shaming, name-calling, or some other aspect of general horridness to it, because one thing you did get right is that when narcs are mean, they're fucking mean.

In short, I'll tell you what I told someone else earlier: I'd rather nine people who genuinely need help and one faker get support (and your use of that word does not make you look good) than try and filter through who "really" needs it and have someone who needed help slip through the cracks because their story didn't meet the "degrees" of abuse needed to be valid.

In short, I'll tell you what I told someone else earlier: I'd rather nine people who genuinely need help and one faker get support (and your use of that word does not make you look good) than try and filter through who "really" needs it and have someone who needed help slip through the cracks because their story didn't meet the "degrees" of abuse needed to be valid.

Thanks for your comment, I agree with the last.

I am actually mostly just pissed because no one has helped me ever, while people with seemingly minor problem, but better at "crying" get all the attention.

That's not fair to you, and I'm sorry that you were overlooked. No one on this sub should be. I know the mods usually advise that if your post isn't getting any traffic to try reposting it later, because time zones are a thing and many people might be working or asleep when you post (happens to me a lot), but mostly I'm just sorry you haven't gotten any of the support you needed. Let's try and change that, even if it's just me subscribing to you and looking for your posts, okay?

but you can't deny at the age of 13, 14, 15....they usually blow things way put of proportion...

Yes, well. I'd rather support 10 teens, have 3 of them be exaggerating and all of them get support than pick and choose who really needs support and have someone who actually needs it fly under my radar. This is called a support sub for a reason.

Removed. You are welcome to your own opinion about a particular post, and if you feel that way, you don't have to comment on it. You are welcome to move on to another post. If you do decide to comment, we need you to assume a context of abuse.

I thought you were supposed to have your own opinions about posts...and get to share stories relating to the post? So basically you're saying to agree with the person and if you don't then don't say anything....what does that remind you of?

You're reminding me of an emotionally manipulative pratt, if that helps?

People come here for support. I'd you don't want to offer support, fine. But that doesn't mean you get to actively berate them. You especially don't get to berate them and then pretend you're the victim...

You are now temp banned for a week. The other mod has been very lenient with you. I'm not going to be/ You appear to be trying to pick a fight with the mod team. We've done our best to explain our rules to you and the reasoning behind them. You don't get to be the arbiter of what consittutes abuse or how someone else feels. Please take some time to review our rules in detail before interacting with people here again at the end of your ban.

edit: your edit on this comment after temp ban has been noted and contributed to making this temp ban permanent.

You can have your own opinions. And you can share stories. The issue is when someone decides to share their opinion and it invalidates or minimizes the suffering of the person who posted. That is the part that isn't okay.

This is a support group. We are here to support each other. That doesn't mean that you have to believe everybody or think the OP isn't blowing something out of proportion. But we draw the line at you telling the OP that they are lying or that you think their situation is no big deal. People here are often in a vulnerable frame of mind, and saying stuff like that is hurtful. It is literally what OP's entire post is about.

You don't have to agree with me. But if you are going to participate, then we need you to follow the rules of the sub.

That's pretty ungenerous. I was going to leave your other comment unchallenged because you're allowed to hold your own opinions, but this one is rather unfair.

There is a steady queue of reports that the mod team goes through. We monitor that queue day and night, every day of the year. We're unpaid volunteers. The work never ends. We always try to make sure that we step in quickly when someone breaks the rules, especially when it's an attack on other members of the subreddit. With over 400k subscribers and a handful of mods, you may be able to imagine what sort of workload it is.

The sub has a very stringent set of rules. It has to, because so many of the people here have been hurt very badly, and the things they talk about here are really hard to open up about. As mods, we read a ton of extremely triggering content, every day. Lots of rules means lots of reports to get through.

To say that the mods are "too busy policing less than glowing reviews of their own performance" belies the huge amount of work that the whole team puts into keeping this sub a safe place. You don't have to give glowing reviews, and you don't even have to appreciate our work, but please don't misrepresent what the team does.

my mom told me when I was a teenager if I got pregnant she would force me to have an abortion.

if shit like this is going on you have a few choices a put up with it or run away and support yourself. you can get college paid for if you prove your parents don't help you. either get off the sinking ship or not because don't expect one day to please them or get the love or validation. its up to you to get your life together. you can't make your parents give a shit about you, you have to value and take care of yourself and if they don't take care of you financial aid needs to know you are homeless, not going back and need work study

the problem is alot of people still want parent love comfort, etc. you are not there to please them you are your own person, worth stuff on your own

It's not weak it just is what it is, you can keep begging for affection and trying to change yourself hoping it will make them love you and keep yourself in an abusive situation. I don't see it any different than people staying dependent on abusive spouse or not getting protective service involved in abuse or neglect for children. you have to do the healthy thing, break the cycle or just keep doing this back and forth against a brick wall. you can't force people to change who don't want to. you only have control over yourself. the only way I got through high school was to recognize this and develop a support system or choosen family else where. you only can control what you can control.

To be fair, a lot of people have that response ingrained in them whether they like it or not have no other point of reference. So when a trigger hit you the automatic response is something that’s automated thanks to being RBN.

Edit: I’m not afraid of downvotes, if we weren’t raised to have a different reaction, how are we supposed to learn empathy? Some people can’t help how they were conditioned. That being said... not everyone has gotten therapy or enough insight to change their responses.

Look kids. Fact is nobody cares generally speaking everyone is out for themselves, if you are lucky enough to have people that do actually care then hold onto them for guidance. The people online probably don’t care for the most part. Care about yourself because that’s the best chance you’ve got, I can’t count the times I have been screwed over for being a nice person, there are tons of sociopathic a-holes in the world. Be nice but don’t let your guard down. And work on yourself for yourself