leadpipe wrote:Buffalo's mistake was a failure to understand the the difference between contant pressure and sacks. Cause their new zillion dollar aquisition is a sacker - but he's not a guy that's bringing pressure every down..

I won't pretend to have watched Mario Williams very much, but it's really starting to sound like you're just making shit up now.

I have watched Mario Williams a lot; the Bills got themselves a less injured version of Courtney Brown.

I don't make shit up - I just watch the games.

All of them?!

I'll bet you make tons of shit up. I'd never know. I don't watch the games. Except the Browns, and you aren't going to see much football watching the Browns.

Spin wrote:Week two and we're scouting top draft picks already for the high pick we're going to throw games for. Someday, but not today.

To use the Peeker smarm-tactic: No, I think our defense as presently constituted is probably Super Bowl ready, so why would anyone wish the team could be in position to draft players that have a high likelihood of being stars in the NFL when this 0-2 hole is nothing but a minor speed bump on the way to the playoffs? We're close enough that all we need to do is draft a Guard at 22 and we might just win the whole thing.

Will this topic be more palatable when they're 0-5? OK, I'll bring it back up then.

Oh, and when I bring it back up, IT STILL WON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT TANKING OR THROWING GAMES.

Thank you.

LOL at the idea that the Browns lose because they are tanking. Christ, I wish we were good enough that tanking was necessary.

On the other hand, if we'd tanked a few last season (not even a whole game either, just a few series, say, against Jacksonville letting MJD cross the goal line) then we'd be looking at RG3?Martin that someone in another thread brought up) we'd be looking at the RG3/Martin battery that was brought up earlier, instead of the Soulless Ginger. We'd still have our draft picks too.

Goals have to be met of guys will bail and a winning attitude and culture need to be part of the process

Drafting high is for losers

I feel there's a difference between "wanting" to lose and being OK with a loss since it might help in the long run. But maybe not for some.

Regardless, this year's already not important to next year since Shurmur is dead man walkin and some other dude will be running he show and it can be HIS job to install a winning attitude. Which will be easier if he has the RG3 of pass rushers.

After Haslam bought the team, this season ceased to be about anything but developing the young players. If they win some games, awesome. If they lose but still show development, that's good too.

Spin wrote:Week two and we're scouting top draft picks already for the high pick we're going to throw games for. Someday, but not today.

To use the Peeker smarm-tactic: No, I think our defense as presently constituted is probably Super Bowl ready, so why would anyone wish the team could be in position to draft players that have a high likelihood of being stars in the NFL when this 0-2 hole is nothing but a minor speed bump on the way to the playoffs? We're close enough that all we need to do is draft a Guard at 22 and we might just win the whole thing.

Will this topic be more palatable when they're 0-5? OK, I'll bring it back up then.

Oh, and when I bring it back up, IT STILL WON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT TANKING OR THROWING GAMES.

Thank you.

IF you could build an entire team through the draft, this stockpiling of high draft choices would make sense. But it's not possible.

You have 24 or 25 starting positions on a team. You draft 7 players a year. Even if half of your picks pan out and are Super Bowl starters, it takes 8 years to build a starting lineup. The average career is 4.3 years. You hold onto draft choices, what, 5 years before they can sign elsewhere?

Building through the draft is an endless cycle.

You have to change the culture of the team and win games to have a prayer of signing anybody. Nobody worth a shit wants to sign on with a team like the Browns have had.

Spin wrote:IF you could build an entire team through the draft, this stockpiling of high draft choices would make sense. But it's not possible.

You have 24 or 25 starting positions on a team. You draft 7 players a year. Even if half of your picks pan out and are Super Bowl starters, it takes 8 years to build a starting lineup. The average career is 4.3 years. You hold onto draft choices, what, 5 years before they can sign elsewhere?

Building through the draft is an endless cycle.

You have to change the culture of the team and win games to have a prayer of signing anybody. Nobody worth a shit wants to sign on with a team like the Browns have had.

1. Never said they should build solely through the draft. They should certainly supplement the roster through Free Agnecy. But the draft will always remain the primary source of strengthening a team, and I'm simply pointing out that the real game-changing draftable players go early in the draft.

2. Free Agents will go where the money is. See: Williams, Mario.

3. You think 5-11 will make Cleveland so much more attractive to Free Agents than 1-15? Even if they get to 8-8, they'll still have to overpay Free Agents to get them here. The rep is that bad. It will take several good years for FA's to select Cleveland over teams willing to pay the same/more.

pod2dawg wrote:Pros, ^^^^ There is no doubt they'll get better, problem is not "better" enough to beat the teams already "better." 3-4-5 wins max. Peruse the draft for an impact pass rusher.

How can you have watched the first two games and come to the conclusion that we need an impact pass rusher more than anything else?

CB, WR, OG. The reliance on Haden in this defense is amazing. They need a clone of him to replace Brown who's played well but is aging, plus at least one more capable CB with speed/size for depth. The fact that Mo-mass is still the only WR a QB can trust is telling although it's always possible Little (less likely) or Gordon (more likely) step into the role of reliable big play WR.

Maybe an impact OLB depending on the yutes progression but right now they look like they're playing great.

The DL is consistently getting to the QB even without Taylor. The Browns are second in the league in sacks with 8 (GB has 11 and Chi is tied at 8 with us).

And in both games they were able to rattle the opposing QB even though Dalton consistently was throwing to WRs that were 2 steps open. Without Haden this defense just fails.

Couple monster OLB types coming out of the SEC who could also litz like madmen from OLB. Potential fromt 7 game changers.

And yet I am very tempted to say "damn the weed, get me the Honey Badger". Just a flat out back 4 playmaker who when paired with haden could really make the D impactful.

The bottom line is they need the impact playmaker on D. That, along with seasoning on the offense could make it very, very interesting.

As for potential slotting? Not sure how anyone can look athe first 2 games and draw any bead on this bunch. Literally, I can see 3 wins, or now I could see it freakishly come together for 7 wins with a strong close. Just don't know yet.