Joseph Price

Joseph Ray Price, born in March, 1971, is one of three defendants facing charges of conspiracy to obstruct justice in the murder of Robert Wone.

Joe Price earned his undergraduate degree in public policy from the College of William and Mary, graduating in 1993. It was there he first met Robert Wone, where they both served in student government, and the two formed a lasting friendship. Joe Price continued his studies at the University of Virginia law school, later serving a clerkship for Judge Norman Moon of the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia.

Mr. Price has long been involved in gay rights advocacy, serving as past President of the UVA Gay and Lesbian Alumni Association. Later, he helped found and served from 2002 to 2006 as general counsel for Equality Virginia, a gay rights advocacy group, an association he has since ended. He continues to litigate high profile gay rights cases, including Miller vs. Jenkins, which was recently profiled in this Newsweek article.

Personally, Mr. Price has resided in the District for over a decade; most of that time in a committed partnership with Victor Zaborsky. Price and Zaborsky have shared houses on Capitol Hill, on Swann Street, and currently live together on 16th Street in the District. Mr. Price has also shared a “…personal, intimate…” relationship with Dylan Ward for four to five years. While Price and Ward alone shared a sexual relationship, Zaborsky described the three as comprising “…a family,” adding that Ward does “not really…share an equal part in the relationship, but we’re trying to develop it that way.” Price and Zaborsky have also expanded their familial relations as detailed here in this USA Today story from 2004.

Mr. Price joined Arent Fox in 1998, becoming a partner in 2006. While there he has worked in several areas, notably specializing in intellectual property litigation, trademark and copyright disputes. He has argued for clients such as AOL and Mars in federal court, and also had a significant pro bono practice. For example he was the lead Arent Fox lawyer representing the Central Union Mission, a homeless shelter, in litigation that threatens the shelter’s real estate deal with the District. While awaiting trial, he retains his position of partner at the law firm Arent Fox LLP, and is officially listed as being on leave of absence.

243 Responses to “ Joseph Price ”

David on 03/12/2009 at 11:46 PM

Is anybody going to talk about Price’s drug addiction? I think it is pretty well known. It’s been going on at least since the late nineties. Not that it means he’s a murderer but he would get extremely angry sometimes on that stuff. Scarily so.

This allegation is not well known to me – please, if you (or anyone else) have first hand knowledge, educate us. Addicted to what? How do you know? For how long? Specifics of use and behavior while using? Etc. Thank you.

David and Mark – if you have first hand (or even reliable second hand) info about Joe’s drug issues, it would be helpful to know more. It sounds like David has heard something specific, but Mark, is your statement that his drug of choice cocaine based on something (other than the “notion” that you state)? If he’s been standing too close to the crack pipe for a while, that would be interesting; if he does X (or something else) recreationally, that would be interesting too but David’s use of “addiction” doesn’t suggest that. I know that the DA made a point of singling Price out in relation to drug use but there’s not been any subsequent info. Thanks.

Substance abuse is obviously a delicate issue but I can tell you a few things. In a previous life I would hang out at “A List” after hours parties. There was no BDSM at these parties. I’m talking about parties where Banana Republic is viewed as clothing for poor people. And these parties were very late at night- after clubs closed. I can state for the record that two of three folks (you guess who was absent or never there) at these parties greatly enjoyed- primarly METHod coffee to stay awake, second ex, and then vitamin G.

I personally never witnessed any special K cereal at breakfast as many have speculated but that would conflict with vitamin G-those two do not get along, this is well known. Any good circuit boy would know to never mix these two. Vitamin G is like water at these parties- it is cheap and easily made, it has a calming or depressant effect that balances all of the effects that coffee gives. Special K cannot be made it is a brand product that must be purchased whereas vitamin G can be made in one’s home. Doeses of vitamin G back then were ten bucks and one would last for a good long time. It would give a really nice buzz when combined with the coffee.

Maybe I am old but where I live meth is a very lower class drug (think of the known negative effects on the gums and teeth) it actually has ground up match heads as an ingredient (ick!) I understand. I do however think that that people who disdain Banana Republic as beneath them might also try to be certain that there was enough vitamin C in their diet though.

Attorneys retain their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination even if charged with a crime. The DC Bar ethics rules do not provide that “taking the Fifth” constitutes moral turpitude. Mr. Price was acquitted of the charges brought against him and currently is not under indictment for any criminal offense. As far as I know, no complaint has been filed against him with the DC Bar Association.

Joe Price is a true thug. This is a man who literally threw my property out on the street, not allowing me to get moving help from my family or others, even took my dog to the DC pound, auctioned my furniture on the street in front of me while I called police, personally stole and used my kitchen table for his own then Capitol Hill digs AND lied to the Court about seeing me in Georgetown on an afternoon when there was a hearing I could not attend.

Later, he spearheaded my imprisonment in the DC Jail FOR 17 MONTHS by contacting other landlords who had locked me out, taken my air conditioning, etc. for failure to pay rent…HE IS THE KILLER AND HE DESERVES TO GO TO JAIL FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

The three guys acted like a little gang, walking shoulder to shoulder on the sidewalk in front of his apartment rental at 17th and R Streets NW, like jack booted thugs, actually sporting boots and ear to ear grins, they pushed past me as I sat on the edge of the sidewalk literally crying over the loss of family pictures which he auctioned off in their frames, and the confinement of my dog at the DC Pound (lucky I got him back!).

He shows no empathy for others and should be given none. HE DESERVES TO BE CHARGED WITH MURDER AND GO TO JAIL FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME. I APPLAUD THE PROSECUTERS IN THIS CASE, AND HOME BERNIE GRIMM IS ASHAMED OF HIMSELF FOR EVEN TAKING THIS CASE.

I PRAY FOR TRUE JUSTICE FOR ROBERT WONG, WHO I HAVE NO DOUBT DIED AT THE SICK, TWISTED HANDS OF JOE PRICE AND HIS ENTOURAGE GANG. YOU DO NOT GET A FREE PASS JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE GAY.

This person is a kook. Not a chance in hell Victor would do something like the above. I knew him for a year in 1999. Nicest person in the office. Not in his character. He was optimistic and humble. A total class act. He’s innocent.

deejoshy wrote:
It amazes me that they keep talking about Michael Price’s drug issues when it is Joe Price who is the drug addict. He was constantly snorting drugs at the Apex club near Dupont Circle and doing as many men as he could in the bathroom there right in front of all the patrons. It is common knowledge.

I have considered for a very long time, and have said so on this site, that drug and alcohol abuse are the drivers in this crime and I always meant Joe’s drug and alcohol abuse with Michael’s being maybe a secondary driver and not least Dylan’s as well.

Unless there has been some drug-related charge filed against him, and Mr. Price as been found guilty of the offense, then all you have is slanderous gossip and proof of nothing. We are a nation of law, not men, meaning that as a society we don’t sanction piety or pious efforts to “give justice a helping hand” by throwing additional sh*t at the defendants just to defame them.

If you believe Price has a drug problem, and you believe it’s relevant to the determination of his liability in the Wone wrongful death case, then why do you bother to read the news or follow the proceedings? Obviously, you’ve made up your mind: Price is a “bad” person and should loose big in the civil trial.

Welcome to the conversation Chad, never a minute too soon I say, and yes I am pretty much convinced that not only Joe Price but also Dylan Ward had significant interest in recreational street drug use at the time that Robert Wone was murdered in their home, and I also am convinced that this contributed to the chaos there and ultimately to Robert’s death. Does this make the outcome of the two trials any less interesting? No.

I plead guilty to: (i) having a life, (ii) not following this site on a daily, weekly, or even monthly, basis and (iii) wanting to know the facts before passing judgment on someone. You could learn much from my example.

The great problem with the internet, as I see it, is that it gives any idiot with a keyboard and too much spare time on his hands an equal voice in the marketplace of ideas. Show me that Price was a GHB dealer and that Wone had GHB in his blood, and then you’ll have something relevant to add. Otherwise, please take your gossip back into the cave from where you came.

Welcome back, Hung. Is your stage name a humorous reference to the disputed presidential election of 2000? As you know, its catchphrase — “Florida, Florida, Florida” — is especially relevant to the outcome of this case, too.

Believe it or not, I too am concerned about the accuracy of Joe’s involvement with illegal drugs. How and why were certain substances (not GHB?) found in the house? Do most people in their 30s have that stuff in their homes? Just askin’.

How is it used? In powder form, measuring a dose is fairly straightforward. In liquid form, GHB comes in a wide variety of concentrations with a single dose ranging from a few drops to a full glass. Body builders have been known to abuse GHB to stimulate muscle growth.

The drug is also commonly abused as a recreational drug, particularly among partygoers on the club scene.

Long-term effects. As the dose increases, the sedative effects may result in sleep and eventual coma or death. Other effects include difficulty thinking, hallucinations, slurred speech, headaches and amnesia. GHB has reportedly been used in cases of date rape.

Because GHB is odorless and tasteless, it can be slipped into someone’s drink without detection.

It came out in one of the earliest status hearing in December 2008 that prosecutor had evidence about drug use on the part of Price. They did not enter it into trial because they trimmed the case down to just the charges at hand — obstruction, conspiracy and tampering.

Is anyone else disturbed that these two had children? I am all for equal rights and gay couples adopting, but who in there right mind would have the children of two men who are openly in a three-way kink relationship with the possibility of drug involvement? The drug use has come up as a comment several times on this site and seems to be known among the community these two men come from. I feel terrible for the two kids, talk about growing up confused and teased. If it wasn’t your to fat or skinny or you have two dads, they are now going to get picked on because they have two dads with a boyfriend and are involved in a murder investigation. I hope these kids survive highschool.

cd,
actually, it was not that much of a secret. i only knew the defendants through a previous job that i had so it was a pretty superficial acquaintance. and there it was common knowledge.
but i sure hope you’re right about the mothers’ knowledge of their drug use.

I would also venture to say that is is equally true with heterosexual fathers of all types (in vitro and the regular way); in fact it’s statistically much more true. Hey kid, your dad’s in prison, a drunk sleeping on the street, a known drug dealer, a mobster, a convicted killer, a creep with images of child pornography on his computer … the list is endless actually. Do I conclude from this that all heterosexual men are a bad risk?

That said I do think that these kids definitely drew the short straw in life’s lottery in some significant ways though I can’t see how the mother could have foretold that.

Traveling back and forth in time, I dare say that the Price-Zaborsky children will have a “better” childhood than the oldest Price brothers, regardless of the outcome of this case. And, that comparison means probably that the Price-Zaborsky children, regardless of their ultimate vocations or orientations, will turn out to be model citizens trying to be everything that their fathers were not. So, we won’t have to rehash all of this with a new case in 2037!

This is the first I have heard about children. Are their more details?

BTW Being born to a irresponsible parent or a responsible parent does not reflect on the child itself. Fortunately in this country we do not inherit our parents’ debts to society and fortunately, I hope, the children are being raised by their mothers. The kids are a side story… an interesting side story.

What I would be more interested in knowing is what type of childhoods the defendants lived. Wards father is a prestigious cardiologist in Maryland. Price’s brother, with the brother’s lover, broke into the house and stole electronic items allegedly to purchase drugs. Heavily into S/M, a triple instead of a couple, over achievers, and parties to one of the most infamous crimes in recent Washington history.

It saddens me that there are societal forces that would use this case to argue against gay families thus making life that much harder for many (including some in my own family) who have unconventional family structures based on the actions of these (to my mind) statistically anomalous men and their actions.

The societal forces’ demagoguery must be faced head on. This is one incident in a world of many incidents including heterosexuals (see dreamndemon.com). That type of crap is the food of sheep. What percentage of gays have attacked house guests? What percentage of Muslims have blown innocent people to death? How many black urbanites have actually committed hand gun crimes? What percentage of whites owned black slaves in the antebellum southern United States? Most people, contrary to untested allegations, are good and work very well in society. The male and female gay advocates of the last several decades paid a terrible cost to get this point across to people with tainted views. We cannot allow our lives to be stained with the BS of ignorance.

I’m impressed that this place went this long without breaking into a debate on the morality of homosexuality. It was a good run.

Agreed that the editors should just delete those posts. There’s plenty of places on the internet to debate that – it has zero relevance here, and does muddy things up. This isn’t a free-form message board.

THE CHILDREN SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FOR GOOD. WHY HAVEN’T THEY BEEN; THERE IS AN ENTIRE HISTORY OF LIES TO THE COURT, DRUG USE AND SICK BEHAVIOR HERE, FALLING FAR OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THE “GAY LIFESTYLE” THEY TRY TO CLING TO FOR POLICITAL PROTECTION. HE SICKENS ME.

I knew a Joe Price when I worked at a small law firm in Richmond. He was a summer intern when I was a paralegal. The timeframe was the mid-1990s. I learned that Joe had taken a job as an associate at Arent Fox when he graduated from law school. I am wondering whether this young man was the same Joseph Price who is now in such a bind. Would anyone know? I can provide the name of the law firm. I really thought highly of the Joe Price whom I knew professionally. I thought he was very personable and kind.

I guess you cannot tell from his picture above whether it’s the same person you knew? While he is somewhat non-descript looking, I would think it would be enough for a person to tell if they knew him or not…

It’s the same Joe Price. Joe spent his first year as a lawyer clerking for a U.S. District Court judge in southwest Virginia (judicial clerkships, particularly federal ones, are coveted jobs) before moving to D.C. to join Arent Fox as an associate. The fact that Joe landed such a clerkship speaks highly of his intellect.

The fact that he progressed from associate to partner at the same big law firm (a feat that’s increasingly rare in the modern practice of law), speaks highly of his motivation and drive. He is smart, articulate, intense and arrogant beyond belief. Some commentors have used the term “alpha dog” to describe Joe; I would suggest that “alpha dog diva” would be more accurate. Accurate, that is, if you buy into the notion that a complex personality can be summarized in three words or less.

Perhaps this is the same Joe Price and perhaps it is not.
Re: the real Joe Price, Joe must have had some admirers to become President of the Student Government at William and Mary.
Studies over time of people who are said to “change” during life indicate that they begin destructive behavior (such as increasingly belittling others) and self- destructive behavior in small ways. Unless they stop, it is like a train on a track and it keeps going faster and faster and more and more destructive to themselves and others.

I can shed some light on Joe’s “election” to become President of the student government. He had no real competition. His principal opponent had to drop out of the race due to academic pressures, and then multiple opponents stepped in to run. Because the rules didn’t require a majority, only a plurality of votes, Price won with very few of the students (even those few students who voted) actually voting for him.

I was at W&M with Joe Price, as I can assure you that 99.9 percent of students could give a damn about who ran student government. The other .1 percent were the students who participated in student government. I found Joe Price to be extremely arrogant and a major suck up to anyone he felt could help him achieve whatever he was trying to achieve. You know the type; grownups think they’re the bees knees, while their peers just role their eyes. W&M is full of driven, highly intelligent people who have achieved as much as and more than Joe Price, and without all of his well-documented, less-desirable character traits. Honestly, while this crime shocked me, the fact that Joe Price had a link to it — arguably, even if only as the owner of the scene of the crime — didn’t surprise me at all, and I won’t be surprised years from now if his name is associated with a future scandal.

I don’t know if you’re gay or were connected to gay students then, but Joe has said he wasn’t ‘out’ at W&M but I think he was dating men, only in secret. Did you know he was gay?

It galls me that he’s trumpeted himself as this Great Gay Alum yet when it wasn’t convenient or in his best interest (SGA Prez) he was closeted.

I ‘get’ being young and closeted and afraid, but in giving an interview about being a gay leader for the W&M GBLT Community Project, he didn’t explain (no “I wish I’d had the courage” comments). His commentary was only to disparage the ‘out’ kids in an unflattering tone, essentially saying that there were very few, and they were ‘kooks’ who had purple hair and outrageous clothing (implying that no one would be associated with them).

Curious if you can say anything on this – my guess is that it wasn’t exclusively a tiny way-out-there group. In my experience, many know who is gay without having to wear a GAY AND PROUD t-shirt (or thong!) and just wonder if he was at least among this don’t-ask-don’t-tell contingent or deeply closeted with a girl on his arm.

“His commentary was only to disparage the ‘out’ kids in an unflattering tone, essentially saying that there were very few, and they were ‘kooks’ who had purple hair and outrageous clothing (implying that no one would be associated with them).”

If he really said this, then I think those “kooks” really should amend their statements to his. There were only a handful of openly gay students at W&M back then, and the more vocal ones had to put up with all sorts of threats and harassment. I remember one very vocal lesbian with dyed hair who was harassed and threatened by a number of people.

Your post says “I was at W&M with Joe Price.” Can you give us more context? I was at my university with thousands of people. Did you know him well? Ever talk to him? Consider yourself friends there? Have any connections with him?

Still think Joe Price copied the stabbing method of Rick Follin. It was not a copy cat murder as you suggested and I never thought it was. I think Mr. Price just copied the method of the stabbing used by Mr. Follin. Mr. Price repeated Mr. Follin’s procedure of inflicting three precise stab wounds to ensure a death. The rest is all open for debate. Look at the autopsy reports. They are just too similar.

The opinion notes that “The fatal wound for each of the girls perforated her heart. In the pathologist’s opinion, the wounds were inflicted by a person with ‘a knowledge of anatomy to know the location of the heart, and for the knife to be placed between the ribs and not go through the bone.’ ”

On appeal, Follin argued that there was insufficient evidence to justify the jury’s finding of aggravated circumstances (which resulted in the imposition of a “hard 40″ sentence. There are a number of aggravated circumstances spelled out in Kentucky law. Among them is: “The defendant committed the crime in an especially heinous, atrocious or cruel manner.”

During the trial, the prosecution argued that the intent to inflict fatal wounds was proof enough of extreme cruelty, stating: “They had each been stabbed 3 times in the center of their chest. There were no knife holes in their clothing. Their clothes were missing buttons and buttons were found loose in the truck. The defendant had apparently ripped their blouses open in order to expose their chests so that he could see the exact spot in which he wanted to drive the knife he used to kill them. According to the pathologist, these murder[s] were committed by someone with medical knowledge and by someone intent on doing fatal damage to the heart muscle.”

On appeal, the state saw things quite differently. From the opinion: “Follin’s conduct is more susceptible to being interpreted as the perpetrator’s avoiding infliction of serious anguish or physical abuse before the victim’s death.”

Hmm.

Further, during the trial the prosecution, in their closing statement, said: ““What really happened out there? We’ll never know. . . . Who was killed first? I don’t know. Were they outside or inside the truck when they were killed? I don’t know. He says outside. Did one watch the other one be killed? I don’t know. Probably. Did they try to run away, get away from him? I don’t know. Maybe. Was it quick? Did it take long for these little girls to die? I hope not, but I don’t know.”

On appeal, Follin argued that because the exact circumstances of the killings could not be determined beyond a reasonable doubt, the charge of aggravated circumstances was unjustified. The Court found: “The point the prosecutor intended to make was that none of the unanswered questions should prevent the jury from determining that defendant knew what he was doing and knew that it was prohibited by law. Defendant reads the prosecutor’s argument as an admission that the State failed to prove in what manner he killed his daughters and, therefore, failed to prove that he acted in an especially or unusually heinous, atrocious, or cruel manner. Pursuing the argument, defendant concludes that the aggravating circumstance ‘was at best a matter for speculation.’”

This feels relevant to the Wone case… Was forethought given to the possibility of being tried for murder — and precluding “aggravated circumstances” charges? Does our jurisdiction even allow for such charges? The Appeals Court suggested that the method of the killing could indicate an intent to minimize suffering – does that change our thinking on the nature of the three stab wounds?

All this talk of drug use is just that talk until proof can be furnished such as a photo of the person using drugs or numerous sworn witnesses. Otherwise I would take it with a grain of salt. Being they were successful gay men there are others who for reasons of jealousy or hatred would easily start spreading rumors like this to get back at them.

“Culuket, like ketamine” seems like a stretch. Why not Culuket like ketchup or Culuket like kettlebells or Culuket like ketogenic diet? AFAIK there’s no real evidence to be certain that ketamine was the connection when he created that profile name. Isn’t it just somebody’s guess?

I spent thirty plus years around homosexual men and though this story is shocking, it is not surprising.

Homosexuality is a dark force. It affects some more and others less. But it is always a dark force. It is thrilling but it is not right and it is certainly not healthy.

Just in this story alone we hear about extreme kink, drugs, murder, promiscuity and the standard white wash given out to the media and to straight folks. Well I ain’t buying it anymore. I’ve seen too many good people ruined through homosexuality.

MarkF makes a good point. Heck, I spent thirty plus years around straight folk, and you won’t *believe* what I’ve seen! I mean, just pick up today’s paper and check out the evil that straight men and women do. Just on the front page, we have murder, adultery, drugs, promiscuity–you name it, straight people got it. It’s appalling!

After thinking about MarkF’s insightful post, I’m persuaded that heterosexuality is a dark force. It affects some more and orders less. But it is always a dark force. It is thrilling but it is not right and it is certainly not healthy. Think about it: many more straight people die of the “lifestyle” than gay people do. I just ain’t buying the standard white wash given out to the media and to gay folks anymore. I’ve seen too many good peoole ruined by heterosexuality.

The purpose of this bulletin board, as I understand, is to share information and thoughts about an unsolved murder case, not to discuss the relative merits or demerits of any sexual orientation. Any comment that any sexual orientation as such is a dark force runs the risk of starting a flame war and accomplishes nothing useful. Sexuality of any sort has the potential for a dark side, but also has the potential to create loving families.

Please don’t post intolerant comments that may distract from the primary topic, an unsolved murder, by starting a flame war about sexual orientation.

There is sometimes a dark side to heterosexuality. Suggesting that it is a dark force could be seen as blaming the victim, suggesting that Mr. Wone’s heterosexuality led to his murder. Please don’t go down that path.

The purpose of this bulletin board, as I understand, is to share information and thoughts about an unsolved murder case, not to discuss the relative merits or demerits of any sexual orientation. Any comment that any sexual orientation as such is a dark force runs the risk of starting a flame war and accomplishes nothing useful. Sexuality of any sort has the potential for a dark side, but also has the potential to create loving families.

Please don’t post intolerant comments that may distract from the primary topic, an unsolved murder, by starting a flame war about sexual orientation.

I agree with the poster that too many lives have been ruined or ended through dark heterosexuality. Regardless of whether the charges against the defendants are true, too many lives have been ruined or ended through dark homosexuality.

Do we really want to start a flame war about sexual orientation, or to discuss a dark episode in the history of the District of Columbia that may or may not have involved sexual orientation?

The purpose of this bulletin board, as I understand, is to share information and thoughts about an unsolved murder case, not to discuss the relative merits or demerits of any sexual orientation. Any comment that any sexual orientation as such is a dark force runs the risk of starting a flame war and accomplishes nothing useful. Sexuality of any sort has the potential for a dark side, but also has the potential to create loving families.

Please don’t post intolerant comments that may distract from the primary topic, an unsolved murder, by starting a flame war about sexual orientation.

In this case, homosexuality may have had a dark side, but we should not be quick to blame an entire sexual orientation. Even those who believe that homosexuality is unnatural would do well not to pursue that point in a bulletin board where many of the participants are homosexual and where many of the participants are heterosexual.

Wow, what an apparently ignorant comment. As the sister of a gay brother who has a very wonderful, drama-free life, I beg to differ. Same with all of my gay friends who are happily married and raising families without even a hint of the “dark forces” you mention. Perhaps what you meant to say wasn’t about homosexuals in general (hopefully) but about those with more of a fast/wild lifestyle?

Yes, homosexuality is unhealthy. It is a developmental disorder, a kind of disease of the soul.

Homosexuals are very good at appearing outwardly normal, but they are in fact sick, tortured souls. There is no such thing as a “normal” homosexual person.

I believe Robert Wone was murdered by at least one of the residents in that townhouse he stayed in. And I think all three know who did it, but are covering up for each other.

Robert Wone’s biggest mistake was to befriend and trust these homosexuals who hid their depravity so cleverly from him. He very likely bought the political correct line that homosexuals are “just like everybody else” except for their sexual orientation. The only good coming out of this sad incident is the revelations of just how truly sick and depraved these seemingly “normal” homosexuals were.

Robert Wone’s biggest mistake was to befriend and trust these homosexuals who hid their depravity so cleverly from him.

A friend was a friend, and was a friend. It had nothing to do with trusting someone of different sexual orientation. Robert was smart, not naive, and he knew enough about his friend’s lifestyle. He just never was exposed into a one-on-one with it until that night. Same thing when you’d never experienced what it would be like to get drunk or high. He was not thinking about the unexpected that night. He was only thinking about not trying to trouble Kathy to pick him up at the subway station late that night to get to their own home.

Keith dearest, homosexuality was deemed NOT to be a developmental disorder in 1973, 2 years after the birth of Culuket in east Texas. I hate to burst your teabagging bubble.

So, Robert’s tolerance was not only politically correct for 2006, but it was/is conventionally customary for his and Culuket’s generation — the sons and daughters of the Sexual Revolution.

And, most gay men are NOT “sick and tortured souls” — that is, unless a handful of eccentrics decide to be so while shagging at the Crucible. We will learn more about the outer limits of this theatrical depravity — Stand and Model (S&M) — from Mr. Pring shortly, one must “pray.”

“Keith dearest, homosexuality was deemed NOT to be a developmental disorder in 1973″

That ruling by the American Psychiatric Association came under intense pressure from homosexual activists. There was nothing scientific to back up that ruling except mere opinion by a bunch of homosexuals seeking to normalize their deviant behavior.

“Conventionally customary,” my a**. Wone was a victim of political correctness. He was naive in believing that his friends were normal people with just a different sexual orientation.

As we now know, Wone’s homosexual friends with their respectable educational and professional status were utterly sick, deviant creatures. They were also dealing and using drugs. Not surprising at all, considering that homosexuals have a propensity for drug use.

Like most well-intentioned, naive people, Wone was lulled by the propaganda coming out of the liberal establishment that homosexuality is “normal.” He thought his friends were trustworthy and sincere.

The truth was the total opposite. What would have saved Wone would have been a healthy distrust and revulsion of homosexuals with their sick, deviant fantasies of preying on normal, heterosexual men.

LOL, Cara. I love your comment and think you’re right on target and that we’ll soon read about someone with this name the same way we read about Larry Craig, Ted Haggard and Robert Bauman aka “The Gentleman from Maryland.”

I tolerate homosexuals, which doesn’t mean that I like them or approve of their lifestyle.

Homosexuality is inherently deviant, and people should be aware of that. It shouldn’t be encouraged, celebrated or treated as normal. If homosexuals want to be left alone, they should remain in the closet and not bring attention to themselves.

From 2007 into 2008 Dyan Ward lived next door to me at Wilton Station, in Fort Lauderdale FL with another gay couple?? Price and Zorbarsky would also come in town once a month or so…. It was know in the complex that all 3 were in a some kind of relationship, but I never saw anything to suggest that drug use or abuse was involved.

Here is the strange thing… I now live in DC with my partner and saw Wards picture on the news monday.I was shocked. At Wilton Station, I would speak with Ward at the pool on a regular basis. I can not believe that this is the same person. But it is. very sad.

You don’t see the darkness because they won’t let you see it. It’s there, believe me. Just like the reporter of the USA Today article did not see what Price and Zaborsky were really about.

There also is just willful blindness around the subject too. It’s become a sacred cow, something to be worshiped and when ever that happens, honesty is the first casualty.

But the numbers are out there…90% of molestations done by Catholic priests were male on male, a small 2-4% of homosexual men account for about 35% of all molestations committed, more than 50% of gay men in psychotherapy, high rates of suicide, etc.

I don’t expect praise or agreement on this. Homosexuality is a religion, a pagan god, and that is a tough obstacle to overcome.

Talk about missing the forest for the trees. 100% of Catholic priests – molesters or not – are men; 100% of gay men – molesters or not – are men; and the overwhelming majority of all molestations are committed by men, whether to boys or girls. In fact the overwhelming majority of all violent crimes are committed by men – regardless of sexual orientation.

Note that you don’t see homosexual women committing these crimes at anywhere near the same rate as gay men.

Using your own logic, its clear that the problem is not homosexuality; the problem is men. Sounds like you’re the one with a case of the willful blindness.

You are incredibly misinformed. Watch Deliver Us From Evil. It’s a documentary that discusses the molestation of children within the Catholic church. Pedophiles are attracted to CHILDREN. It often makes absolutely NO difference whether the child is male or female. For example, the main subject of that documentary was asked whether he was attracted to men. He said no. He asked whether he was attracted to women. He said no. When whether he was attracted to children, however, he said yes. Pedophelia has NOTHING to do with homosexuality or heterosexuality, as most pedophiles are not attracted to men or women.

Many men molest boys because boys are more available to them than girls are. Think about scouting, church, mentoring, sporting…most of these childhood activities are segregated and the leaders are usually the same sex as the children. Therefore, any males who are in the company of children are most often in the company of boys. Thus, males who are pedophiles will often molest boys because of their availability.

MarkF writes: “Homosexuality is a religion, a pagan god, and that is a tough obstacle to overcome.” That is nonsense. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. (More accurately, it is two orientations, male-to-male or gay, and female-to-female or lesbian.) Some people are wired that way. It’s not a choice, any more than being straight was a choice for me. (It was the way that I and most but not all men and big boys are wired.) The hatred of homosexuality is a religious heresy, a false use of religion. The hatred of homosexuality is a tough obstacle for homosexuals to overcome.

The darkness is there, but it isn’t homosexuality or heterosexuality. The darkness is the capability of humans to do wrong. In particular, there can be darkness in any sexual orientation. Ask anyone who works with victims of violence against women by straight men. There is also darkness in religious views that defend hatred, when religion is supposed to dispel the darkness.

If you want to propound anti-homosexual views, find some forum whose posters share your views. The purpose of this forum is to discuss a trial that may have involved dark homosexuality, not to discuss whether homosexuality is inherently dark.

On a slightly different note, I’d argue that virtually no one knows anyone enough to say that they incapable of some crime. At best you can say that it’s hard to believe that someone you know would commit a crime.

How well did you know the accused? Socially? How many times did you see him under stress, or while acting sexually?

Let me lay out a story. I know a guy who on the surface of things is the nicest person imaginable. He is beyond popular, particularly with women, and particularly with older women. They see him as an adorable, kind person who they would make a perfect son, and a perfect husband. He was even profiled as one of DC’s most eligible bachelors in the Washington Post a few years back. I’ve seen him spend time and money to help people through death, illness and other crises. I saw over three thousand people turn out for the funeral of his father, largely out of their love and concern for him, not particularly for his father who was very shy and quiet. Right after that he arranged a very public funeral and memorial service for a voluntary police official who was killed on duty. He did the planning and arrangement that the widow was too stricken to do.

This same guy is swamped with requests for his time. He can be treated for a dinner every night of the week out on the town. He frequently has several social requests for his time on every night of the week. I once saw him send out of four hundred Christmas cards, all with a handwritten note. A truly saintly woman once told me that this guy was a “real Christian” for his many acts of kindness.

Yet this same man has conned and lied his way through many relationships with both men and women. Sexually he’s into being beaten up, urinated on, raped and more. He gets off on breaking into a house and breaking all of the windows and anything glass in the place. I know for a fact that he’s done this. He cums over vandalism. He lies to all of the many people he’s involved with, and when his lies are revealed will tell more lies. He gets involved with people for the pleasure of hurting them, and he does it well. His behavior goes well beyond that of a cheating boyfriend, or a man being a horn dog. He’s a sociopath, a charming person who is out to control and hurt people. He lies about his first name, last name, where he went to high school, college, where he grew up, where he lives now, what he does for work. I know several people who have known him for over a year but who still don’t know his real first name, where he works, where he’s from or anything. He treats them terribly yet they come back for more abuse.

Yet none of his thousands of friends see any of this. See they a charming guy in a sweater who is soft spoken and is wildly popular.

My point? You don’t know people very well unless you know them in all the facets of their life, personal, professional, familiar and sexual.

This is not directed at Victor Z. per se. What I’m saying is that I don’t buy this the line about how a friend can say for sure what sorts of things a man is capable of doing, especially sexually.

My guess is that Price and Ward are both sociopaths and that Victor was drawn into this mess by the two of them. Sociopaths will get people to do all sorts of crazy things just to get the approval of the sociopath. Unless you’ve been taken in my a sociopath yourself, you would find it hard to believe what crazy things a person will do, and how hard it is to get away from them.

I have no doubt he’s been banned more than once. It’s evidence of a serious disorder when someone keeps returning to a place where they aren’t welcome. To constantly attack others as “sick” is not surprising when you consider the source. It’s like Ted Haggard’s years of preaching against gays and the much-married Newt Gingrich and Donald Trump saying gay marriage is a threat to traditional marriage. Some people need a long look in the mirror.

I do not condone the deviance he engaged in, but Ted Haggard at least made an effort to denounce and discourage the scourge that afflicts him. For that, he deserves compassion and help.

The fact that men who speak out against gay marriage are divorced means nothing. Marriage is a broken institution, thanks largely to feminism and the generally poor state of American women, so calling these men hypocrites is a hollow charge.

Robert Wone was murdered because he befriended and trusted a certain type of people he never should have associated with in the first place.

Those three sickos were so clever hiding their evil intentions, they could have fooled any naive, straight guy like Wone into spending the night at their place.

As it turned out, they were *NEVER* Wone’s friends, despite all those years knowing him. And they had the WORST intentions in store for him when they invited him to spend the night at their townhouse.

Wone was a victim of political correctness, of liberal propaganda that seeks to normalize homosexual behavior. He thought homosexuals were normal people “just like us” who only had a different sexual orientation.

And because he thought these homosexuals were “just like us,” he thought nothing of trusting them, and placing his personal safety in their hands.

You’ve made your point, and as far as I can see, you are not advancing your argument. We get it. Unless you have something new to add, I would suggest you take your rants to the Family Research Council website, where you can make the same point over and over.
David, co-editor.

Damn, a person has to get up early (on the West Coast no less) to bask in the hate sometimes. Hie thee to a Maryland McDonalds Keith and make yourself at home.

In a side note, did ya’ll notice Equity Virginia (first) then Equity Maryland (which I didn’t even know existed) weighing in early on the McDonalds beat-down of a transgender customer by other customers and naming it a hate crime ~ not the black on white race crime that Glen Beck and Matt Drudge were screaming that it was. It was comical to watch those homophobes and their sputtering speechlessness once Chrissy’s transgender status was revealed.

In addition, Joe’s pet project whie at Arent Fox, the Miller/Jenkins custody battle, is back in the news. Seems a christian missionary helped ex-gay Miller kidnap the joint-custody child and flee the country, settle and change names. Booyah! Credit card trails came back and bit the helper in the ass!

“The silence on this case by the gay community in this case is repulsive.”

There has been NO silence from the gay community in this case. I’ve seen gay people posting messages about this case for nearly four years. This forum is run by gay people. I’ve seen hundreds of messages about this case on other gay forums. The Washington Blade (gay publication) has been running articles on this case since Robert Wone was killed. If you are observing “silence” on this case by the gay community, then you need your hearing checked.

Anyone can post an opinion. Why would you claim that someone “has to be involved in this case to form and post an opinion”? It does help to realize that it’s an open forum before you post your fiction regarding the need to be involved in the case.

The merits or drawbacks of being gay is not the issue here. Take that shit to the “Scalia forum” or whereever. This is about the crime, any other discussions are non-germane and trivialize this appalling murder.

AC71 thanks for your remembrances, I am sure that you know best what boys like with their Wheaties. Cocaine is really passe probably.

In any case, I have said for as long as I have been on this blog that drug and alcohol abuse it at the root of this crime. A person might fantasize about attacking someone sexually or homicidally, even be a bit off mentally and just get off on these thoughts, but in some percentage of people sustained drug and alcohol abuse can metastasize these thoughts and turn them into unimaginable actions.

Some one should go to jail for killing Robert Wong. If none of the parties involved will confess all three should be given life in jail. I do not care if you are gay or straight if you murder some one you should pay with incarcaration.

I’d say to these three perps, whatever some ultra liberal DC judge decides, it would be wise to watch their backs. I’ll bet any time they see those Law and Order episodes where someone kills an acquitted perp exoneratied though legal trickery of an appalling crime, a shiver goes down their collective backs. Not being convicted can be just as agonizing mentally as going to jail.

I know the JP tapes haven’t been posted, but there’s one point in one of those short exerpts that the Post posted that I heard and tried to find again but it keeps coming back to me as an odd thing to say. When the detectives are questioning his responses, doesn’t he say, “You guys are killing me!” Just a really odd choice of words.

Did I mishear that? I don’t think so, but typing it felt pretty creepy.

There is reaching, there is pursuing convoluted logic, there is diverting a conversation and there is (here’s an example!) the combo-comment that does all three.

Yes, Joe said “You are killing me,” to the police and yes is is an appalling, tasteless, mind-bogglingly self absorbed and oblivious locution (quite possibly a true Freudian slip). So, no, Susan did not mishear, and, yes, it is beyond odd and creepy that he said that.

Yes, I will just comment one more time on the remote possibility it actually requires explaining.

It was very interesting that, in the middle of the night, in the police station, in the midst of a police interview about a guest being killed/murdered in your home, you choose to respond to a line of strenuous questioning with “You guys are killing me.”

I thought it was an interesting choice of words and it seems some others did/might as well.
Possibly even insensitive. Maybe telling.

Really, I just have to add, that I know that phrase is in our lexicon. So is “I’ll take a stab at it.” So are a lot of phrases. When and where and how you choose to employ them can be deemed extremely odd or inappropriate depending on the circumstances. The one above and the one used in the intervview–maybe not appropriate in light of the circumstances. That is just an observation.

I was Joes best friend for four years in high school in Mass. I wish you all could have known him then. I think you all would understand more clearly what a tragedy this really is for everyone concerned. Sharron, Red, still love and miss you guys. Sorry to hear about all of this. Hope your making it through. L

Did you keep in touch over the years? I don’t know how to mesh what I know from first hand accounts of his arrogance and occasional tirades against others with what appears to be a heartfelt comment from you – I am assuming you thought he was a good guy. All the rest of it aside, I’m sure it’s difficult to see someone you cared about go through such a public nightmare and public downfall. I would love to read more about how he was then – I think we all would.

I’ll have to think about all this. The Joe I knew and his stepmom Sharron and Dad Red (Edward) were I’m sure all different people when we lived on OAFB compared to who they are now. I’d love to touch base with his parents again. I’ve phoned the editors over a year ago with a few concerns over getting into any type of involvement with this. I’m married with 2 kids and we keep this kind of drama away from our kids. This is some very serious stuff with a great deal of legal concerns. I’d be seriously biased by the Joe I used to know anyway. Suffice to say, we were best friends for years and he was a super great guy. It’s sad to see what has happened to everyone touched by this. I sincerly hope this works out satisfactorily for ALL parties. I like the high school memories we all had. The parties, first cars etc. I think I’d like to just keep it that way. Joe once told me he would buy me my first Lamborghini when he “struck it rich”. Thanks dude but I bought my own two years ago. Not sure how much more I want to say.

I’ve read this website from front to back and up and down in disbelief since I did a web search several years ago looking for Joe. ((I did find him before seeing everything on the web about this, and talked to him at Arent Fox and even invited him and Mike down for Thanksgiving. (They didn’t come)). Some people are pretty intense on here. He knew what he was then but not out to anyone but me and the guy he was trying to date. I try not to fathom the Joe I knew being involved with anything like this. We were perfectly normal high school hormonal over achievers. I think anyway. Haven’t thought about this stuff in a long time and the thoughts just keep flooding my fingers and they stop moving.

My best friend didn’t do this. I don’t know the older Joe. I pray he didn’t change that much in 22 years but that is a long time. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved in this mess especially the person that lost his life. L

I am trying to show some restraint but if I am too pushy, just ignore me! Staying away from the “ugly” stuff, can I assume that Michael was in Joe’s shadow, even then? FYI, I’m pretty sure that Red has married someone else (her name isn’t Sharron) and that they’re in Texas. Was Joe pretty clean-cut then about NOT doing drugs? I would think that was the case based on what’s been written by others. This may be too much, but any guess on how the Price family would have been when Joe and Michael came out to them? Not easy for many of us, especially decades ago (and being in a military family, etc.).

Thanks for whatever insight you can provide. There are many people here who think Joe, at a minimum, knows who the killer is, and many think he was the killer (or one of them). To be straightforward, I am one who thinks he KNOWS, at a bare minimum, although I’m not alone in WISHING it wasn’t true simply because it gives the gay community a black eye (and more that if Robert Wone saw his killer then I hope he didn’t feel that betrayal on top of the pain he suffered). All this is to say that whatever we learn about these men helps. It does nothing to solve the murder but “character” plays a part here, for example, if Joe was so loyal to “the killer” would he have risked all that has played out simply to protect that person – and how far he would’ve gone to “save” that person from punishment. . .

I don’t mind pushy. I’m pretty rational and realistic. And yes thank you I will ignor what I’m not comfortable talking about. Good ol USA.

I heard a rumor Red had gotten remarried. I wish him well. That mountain of a man and his Harley and his big red beard were some of the coolest things I can remember from the high school years. I’ve had a beard since the day I moved in with them as he told me “grow that thing out of keep it shaved”. He was a super good man and a great dad to Joe.

I lived with the family as mine had gotten transferred to Alaska. Mike and Joe were not close then at all. Joe and I were like glue. No drugs. I’m the one who stole Reds whiskey out of the decantur. Joe didn’t even drink back then. Joe studied harder then most. His dad I’m sure could be classified as a genuis and really pushed him. Shar was no slouch either.

Loyalty? Thats a tougher one. If I have to be honest with myself looking back I’d say success and making money came first. We were type A’s. We were all arrogant and smart and cocky. One-upmanship was the norm. Mean? Na. Joe stole more pens from a friend of ours then super stores carry. That’s why this is so hard for me to digest. I’m ok living in the past on this one tho.

Mike was “out” long before his brother. Joe didn’t tell them till well after high school. I wasn’t around then. We all scattered to different parts of the world and lost contact.

Old friend, it’s nice of you to share here.
I don’t think anything changes your experience with your friend. It was what it was. Hopefully more will be learned about that terrible night as the civil trial approaches. Those witness lists are a start.

Was Mike as driven as Joe or was he even on the college path at all? I question this as it’s been said that Mike regularly beat up Joe, which I find hard to believe since from pictures it looks like Joe is bigger and stronger than Mike. It’s interesting that you say Red was a great father to Joe – did Joe think so too? Was Red as good to Mike?

Thanks for sharing Old Friend — we need more voices like yours here and I think your reception shows that we don’t bite when a reasoned, measured, different viewpoint is shared. It is too easy to forget sometimes that we are not speculating about Col. Mustard, Miss Scarlett and Mr. Plum but three real individual people.

I’m wondering, have you watched Joe’s interrogation video (as opposed to reading the transcript)? Do you have any insight into what we see there? Can you square the Joe in the video with the Joe you knew?

I see justicedc’s comments as a sarcastic “warning” of sorts.. The website is always unfairly accused of ganging up on people that are “pro-trouple.” But it’s not ganging up…thre are simply more people on this site that believe the trouple to be guilty of wrong-doing than those that believe in their innocence.

Yes, thanks, Old Friend, for these priceless glimpses into Price family dynamics during the Reagan era: how then did Red and Sharron react to having not just one gay son but two? And, what ever did happen to the third Price brother, born just after Red and biomom Vicki divorced? And, did Joe take a biological woman to the prom at Bourne High? If so, did she look like Sarah, or like Victor, or like Sparkly Cat?

I’m not pro anything guys. Just reminiscing about an old friend and therefore extremely curious as to this outcome. And very sad about ALL the current events. I am however not trying to get into this too deep. I sypathize with both sides. It’s a tradegy if they did it, and a tradegy someone died. I have no real desire to talk to Joe. After all these years, we are different people. I would however LOVE to touch base with Red and Shar. They were great people and I’d love to send them Christmas cards and pictures of my kids. They certainly didn’t deserve this tragedy either. So right or left, right or wrong, everyone has as opinion. As it should be.

Park benches… very interesting and appropriate.

BTW, Joe’s prom date was a very beautiful lady and a very good current friend of mine. She hasn’t seen or heard from him is years either.

Friend, if the Eds. don’t know the city where Red lives, they can email me and I’ll send it to them to pass along to you (would rather not post it).

I realize that you’re here for all sorts of reasons and don’t have the intention to get stuck in the muck. That said, can you say whether Michael beat up Joe in high school (Joe’s interrogation leaves open WHEN Michael beat him up “regularly”). I’m curious too if Michael was a good student in high school, as focused as Joe, and if Red was as supportive of him as he was Joe.

What you’ve written has been helpful to me – it humanizes Joe a bit more to me. I don’t see he could know as little about that night as he claims but I’d like to believe he’s not a cold blooded murderer. I hope we someday find out once and for all.

Bea, I’ve emailed the Editors to contact me back. Thank you for your help. As far as I can see, they have worked so hard during this entire ordeal to keep this alive to find justice, while being fair and honest. I certainly don’t want anything I say to bring any kind of negative attention to them or for them to question themselves in any way. “IF…” floored me.

Almost in my mind the two Joes we all seem to know are seperate people. I sure hope the murderer is brought to justice. Whomever it may be. This website (IMHO) has gone a long way to keeping that going. However, I think if I have any more actually facts to say it’s just going to be to them.

I sincerley want to thank everyone on this site for the reception I received. It simply proved post after post what this websites main goal really is.

Thanks, Old Friend. Do you have the high school yearbook photos of the Brothers Price and their prom dates? The Prices’ Bourne (Massachusetts) identities are especially key in resolving this case. Moreover, analyzing their appearances and identities, then and now, would make an interesting essay for this weblog or, barring that, for the WaPo features page.

Most of us can look back on days gone by and remember close friends who have changed in ways we wouldn’t have predicted – and woudn’t have planned, had we had a choice. I feel real sadness at times and certainly can empathize with your feelings, Old Friend. Again, thanks for your sharing; and keep in touch to the extent it’s comfortable.

One thing that stands out about what’s publicly known about JP is that he appared to be professionally driven, and likely type A. But what seems equal to that is his driven need for sexcapades and fulfilling that aspect of himself. It looks like the need for a certain public image and status re Equality VA and Arent Fox was at variance with the alt.com, Eyecandy, computer porn, slave-master JP.

Would 3 men get together to actually plan the sexual assault and murder of another man if 1 of them suggested it? Who hated Robert E. Wone so much that they wanted to kill him? Or who loved him too much and never got over his rejection?

I don’t know if these spam posts are deliberate or not but I say make lemonade of these lemons. I just revisit or read for the first time the pages on which they appear and learn something new. This page seems to have a number of first-person accts of people who knew JP. Worth reading.

Hi Susan, not a bad idea. I wonder if Joe passed the bar and if there were “issues.” He’s still not in the lawyer’s database of the Florida bar but I don’t know how long that takes to load the newbies.

I would love to hear from “Old Friend” who posted above. I thought highly of him to give his input. I saw the pictures of Joe in his college yearbook – quite slim by comparison so the other one who wondered if “his” old Joe Price is this one would undoubtedly make the connection.

I thought he was quite attractive in college. He’s put on some weight, but I don’t think he’s horrible to look at right now. I’d give him better than even odds of landing on his feet, especially if he gets licensed in Florida.

I have to wonder about that one search engine that listed Michael Price with Joseph Price in Miami Shores. I also saw a Michael Price listed in Ft. Lauderdale with a Myspace profile. I can’t find it any longer but it seems he (JP) wants to keep his brother close by. Or maybe needs to. And both VZ and JP seem to have family in Florida. Not D. Ward, though, I don’t think.

With that weight and given that his two wives may no longer be intimate with him, how is Mr. Price achieving any kind of lovin’? Does he have to meet his gentleman callers the “old-school” way without the Internet? Let’s hope, for his chances and his tricks, that those bars have especially bad lighting!

I’m guessing the boys are doing their best to reestablish themselves in a new community in much the same framework as they had in DC, i.e. becoming A-list Gays. They are older, less “pretty” and perhaps they’ve learned some lessons (drugs? trolling online sex sites?). My prediction is that UNLESS charges are issued, Joe will find a way to get back in the gay activism game while he tries to build a practice; Dyl will do his best to establish his business (has his wanderlust run its course or will he find a new profession within the year?) and Victor, good old dependable Victor, keeps his same job and is the most stable element of family income, thus securing his place within the polygamous family.

This is pure speculation, but I see the Florida scene as more transient than the button downed DC scene — which the boys are counting on, perhaps. DC, much as I loved it, was tight knit, more two degrees than six degrees of separation. There was a reason that Andrew Cunanan lived there untouched for weeks despite pawning coins and murdering Versace. . . not to disparage Miami but it is, like my west coast home, less provincial and all that goes with that than DC. Opinion only, no disrespect intended. Would love to hear from current DC and Miami residents on this as I may be wrong.

No, I think that they are done with activism. Dyl and Joe had hung it up suddenly that summer (even before the murder for Dyl), and they will never return to it. Despite Florida’s deserved reputation for especially homophobic episodes during the Cold War (the improbably-named Johns Commission and Ms. Anita Bryant do come to mind!), its changed demographics today make it more like New York City and much less like Mississippi. So, there is less need and room for journeyman advocates like Culuket and Sparkly Cat in the Sunshine State as opposed to in the Old Dominion.

Perhaps, rather than posing as exiled Virginia gentry with tinsel crowns and maces, they all are destined to become bitter bar flies or, more likely, D-list homebodies stuck with that overpriced bungalow. Tsk, tsk.

I guess, in the changed market since 2006, it is better to rent than to own.

As we all know, Bea, hustlers once were a mainstay for late-middle-aged to elderly gay men (just see the recent book The Secret Historian!), and it may be back to the future for Mr. Price. An early frost may be in store for his love life. Pity!!

I’m with Clio–I think they’re done with activism. They pretty much personify all of the worst stereotypes of gay men. I can’t see any serious gay rights group letting their name get dragged into this. A heterosexual man was stabbed to death in their guest bedroom, and they’re refusing to say whether or not they drugged, raped, and murdered him. That’s pretty much a disqualifier. I’m still stunned that Victor’s able to find work in advertising.

I know Bill, I continue to be amazed that Victor is employed in an image sensitive industry. I think it is a testament to what a genuinely nice guy he probably is. I am sure that in any context one can think of besides this one that I would certainly like him. I just don’t understand his gaping blind spot when it comes to his partner and the events surrounding Robert’s murder. To this day I just can not comprehend his silence and his choice to let his parents bankrupt themselves over this thing. Obviously, for me that takes him out of nice guy territory, but equally obviously to those who know him and those who work with him it does not.

I agree. It’s nice to have the info. from people who knew these guys back when, but people change, people are complex, etc. From the moment he accepted the live-in lover/mistress of his partner’s he started down a slippery slope of character compromise, etc.

I’ve lived in DC and South Florida (Fort Lauderdale). Miami was like Hustler Haven so it was not a favorite destination. The area where their house is located is a big come-down from Swann Street. When they headed for Florida living, one would think they would go to Wilton Manors. While looking for their current house, they stayed at a beautiful condo in Wilton Manors.

At one point, someone here said the Miami address was handy to quick flights to South America in case someone was expected to come knocking at the door with an arrest warrant.

Wilton Manors is probably the gayest town in America this side of San Francisco. It would have been a good location for three gay men. I can’t even imagine living in their neighborhood in Miami Shores. The house is not waterfront and you have to drive across a causeway to get to the beach (writing this as someone who walks to the beach).

I also lived in DC on the Hill. It was a great place to live while I was working in DC. If one had to move from DC to Miami Shores, that would be totally depressing.

Thanks for the insight – I had no idea about Miami Shores. I did take a look on Google Maps at one point and the street looked very suburban. Not even of the Mercedes, Mercedes, Mercedes kind of suburb.

Regarding Wilton Manors again, I just saw a census story in the news today that says Wilton Manors is the No. 2 city nationally in percentage of same-sex couples, second to Provincetown, Mass.

When considering Price’s penchant for seeking others for sex and his idea of having a porn website and business, it’s just very strange that they wouldn’t buy a place in Wilton Manors instead of Miami Shores.

Yet, because of the chastening scrutiny brought on by this case and blog, have the three decided to swear off men altogether and to devote their lives to follow a much more ascetic, spartan routine — cut down to maybe one trick per calendar year per trouple member? Thus, Miami Shores — with its far less Eye-candy per capita than Wilton Manors — may provide fewer temptations for the aging and former Lotharios still dogged potentially by an allegedly “very active” investigation.

I think the last time I checked, their home was about half the value they paid for it. My guess is that they sunk into it a LOT of down payment and really can’t walk away no matter how ‘under water’ they may be. I can’t remember if it was Bill O or someone else who said that Miami Shores itself is considered ‘less than’ – completely odd to me that they moved to a ‘burb and didn’t buy in the city. Even if Miami is miserable, it has to be better than Miami Shores!

Miami hasn’t been a nice city for a half century. Miami Beach was nice in its day and still has some very nice areas. Some of the other burbs like Key Biscayne and posh islands in Biscayne Bay are nice. I’ve avoided Miami for many years except when I had to go to the airport for a few free trips to Europe.

I never could figure why they bought in Miami Shores when Wilton Manors has a very active gay community and some nice condos. Ward was staying in Wilton Manors when they were shopping for their Florida home. Someone mentioned here, a year or so ago, that Miami Shores is closer to the Miami airport to flee to South America if it looked like murder charges could be on the front burner.

I would agree that they probably put a lot of money into the downpayment. My rather limited understanding of Florida law is that your primary residence can’t be touched when it comes to collecting money from a civil suit (IANAL–this is what a remember from the OJ civil trial). So it would make sense to put just about all they had into the house so that Kathy Wone couldn’t get to it.

Of course, now the house is worth a lot less, and they’ve settled the civil suit, so they’re “on the hook” for the civil damages (i.e., there are no appeals to hold things up–they owe the money NOW). My big question is: Can they really sell the house at all, even at a loss, based on Florida law, without having to give all the money to Kathy Wone?

My guess is that you can only have one primary residence, but there are likely laws about capital gains/losses if you sell your primary residence and buy another primary residence. This is so “regular people” (as opposed to the superrich) don’t lose a fortune on capital gains and losses when they move. Would that apply here? I would guess the answer is no. OJ never moved, as far as I can recall. My guess is that if they sell the Florida house, even at a loss, Kathy Wone will be able to get all of the money from the sale.

That’s probably because he’s found other accommodations and no longer needs the house. My question is, if he had tried to sell the house and then used the money to buy another primary residence in Florida, would he have been about to do so, or would the Goldmans have been able to get all of the money from the sale of the house?

I don’t know the answer but would guess that so long as he buys in Florida and can claim the homestead the moment he buys the second and sells the first (withdrawing the transfer) he’s able to keep the house. If, however, he’s not buying at the same time of the sale, the money would be up for grabs.

I can’t do something like that where I live, though. Here, your homestead is defined as where you were living on the first or last day of the year. (I can’t remember which.) So even though it was my primary residence, my house wasn’t declared my “homestead” for another six months after I bought it. Does anyone know what the rules are in Florida?

TWO THINGS I FOUND ONLINE ABOUT FLORIDA (note “homestead exemption for taxes” is different than protection against creditors, the issue here:

1. There is no waiting period for homestead protection. The protection attaches the day you first occupy the property with the intent to make it your permanent Florida homestead. There are no papers to file and no forms to fill out. There is a Florida statute pertaining to a “declaration of domicile” which may be filied with a court, but this declaration is not required in order to qualify for homestead asset protection. Your intent to occupy a homestead is more important than any declaration you sign or file.

2. Florida courts have protected homestead sale proceeds for a “reasonable time” while debtors seek a new home to live in. You simply keep the funds in a “homestead account” – you may spend money from a homestead account on things other than the purchase of a homestead while the homestead search in ongoing. Therefore, it would seem that debtor could transfer or convert part of his homestead proceeds to an alternative protected asset or to another person during the time the debtor is, or was, searching for a new Florida homestead.

A final note, unless the trio has failed to make payments (largely through insurance, is my guess) to satisfy the settlement, it’s a moot point.

Miami society is a sprawling iniquitous zone of alienated tedium. Within this entity is an ecotone of gay life that does not have the vital, fun-loving and cohesive solidarity that I have seen and experienced in New York, New Orleans, San Francisco even Berlin. It is very, very strange. Joe should fit right in. Transients like Dylan are nothing to be remarked upon. It is Victor that might be out of place.

Victor has always been out of place (didn’t Joe and Dyl wait till he was literally out of town for their escapades to go down?), but it was Mr. Zaborsky who first mentioned the making of a family. Poor Victor, he’ll never change, and you cannot do it for him. Will Kim then be visiting Miami with the kids often, or have the fellas all moved on?

How is Miami’s gay male BDSM scene? Is there a Miami version of the Washington networks that may or may not have included Mr. Price and Mr. Ward? Dyl’s working knowledge of Spanish may come in handy here.

I’m guessing that a 3rd can be bought/rented much more cheaply in Miami than in DC, but otherwise, the scene is going to be much worse for them in Miami than in DC. In DC, they were gay men in their 30s with money and power. In Miami, they’re gay men in their 40s with less money and no power. Even if you don’t consider their “Google problem”, they’re much worse off now than they were in DC prior to the murder of Robert Wone.

LOVE their Google problem a la Santorum! Agree with all that finding their shuttle to the apex (Equality VA) won’t work, and that with getting long in the tooth and having less income, they’ll drop a couple of levels as to action. And Joe will suffer the most – don’t think Dyl was ever really into being a Dom, or cuckolded for that matter. What a pity!

As for Victor, I remember his former workmate who posted here that it was unfathomable that he had anything to do with this AND that he was “taken care of” by his employer to keep most of his job even if repackaged, I’ll go with he was never the bad apple of the group – yet he still stinks from the rot so long as he stays in the (greatly depreciated) barrel in Miami Shores.

Victor has, thus far, managed to skate by on the presumption that he wasn’t involved in this until Robert Wone was already bleeding to death in his guest bedroom. I suspect he’ll continue to do so, unless and until another shoe drops. If that happens, I think he’s going to start to lose business. There’s now a front-page story in the Washington Post wherein Robert Wone’s widow accuses him of being involved in this, and she said that AFTER Zaborsky agreed to pay her an undisclosed sum of money to get her to drop a wrongful death suit. That article is going to be the first reference point for any subsequent news stories about the murder of Robert Wone. If the story starts making headlines again, Victor’s job prospects are going to start looking a lot shakier.

Bill, to “agree to pay her an undisclosed sum of money to get her to drop a wrongful death suit” is a settlement offer. Is that what you meant? Why all those funny words to describe a settlement offer?

Do you have a link to that article you reference in the Washington Post?

Let me help you with your next post. You’re going to try to argue that Kathy Wone never said that Victor was in any way involved in the death of her husband. She just said that “they can rot from the inside out from all the secrets they chose to keep,” which is TOTALLY different. Good luck with that argument.

Bill O, I’m hoping that Bruce decides to just let it ride rather than stirring up the insurance company wanting to settle, that we don’t know if Victor wrote a check, etc. I thought the most interesting part of the article was that Kathy Wone was shocked that the three men were going to take the 5th during the civil trial.

In all our discussions, we get lost in our own “dicta” (so to speak), me included, and I did take a fresh look at her comment. I think she genuinely expected that with the acquittal behind the three men that they would tell what they knew about that night. After all, really all that they could be charged with is murder (no SOL issues) – and with Joe being old friends with Robert, and being in the same tight W&M circle, I imagine that it took the wind out of her. She’s a lawyer and likely has her own opinions of what invoking the 5th meant under those circumstances. If the story they told to investigators at Anacostia was the ENTIRE truth, what genuinely decent person would clam up so tight and cast such a shadow on themselves AFTER being acquitted?

Not being a religious person, all I hope for is Karma – and if the three are innocent (not just “not guilty”), they’ll be fine. Otherwise, payback’s a bitch.

And your post seemed to suggest that Victor, at some time, made a separate settlement offer at some time to Mrs. Wone. Not familiar with that. As best we know, there was only one settlement offer and it was done by all the defendants, not just Victor.

Really, I only had an issue with your phrasing. You have a right to say whatever you want in any way you want to.

Shocked only to the extent that I would think that her attorneys would have discussed that possibility with her beforehand or that she, as an attorney, who likely had to take criminal law in law school, would have not considered it.

But I am not in the business of distrusting Mrs. Wone in any way. I take her for her word.

T’accuse, don’t you, Bruce! You are so funny. You want straightforward when it suits you “settlement” and embellish and completely fabricate (“mastermind”? Where? In your head alone, it seems) when it suits you.

So, in case someone wasn’t following Bruce’s attempt to twist and turn and muddle arguments and words, Bill O. never, NEVER, absolutely never used the word “mastermind.” In this case Bruce is using “funny words” and not to describe anything actually said. Double whammy.

The problem is that I BELIEVE all the “ban this one, ban that one” posts. All because their OPINION is different that those of others. That anytime anyone has an opinion that is different than those that agree with a certain current “sacred cow” there are cries of “banning them”.

They have every right to post as anyone else.

Paglia gets more and more respect from me the more I read about her.

Don’t like what someone says…….DEBATE them, don’t try to shut them up.

Theres a whitewashing going on on this case, thats for sure, its obvious to anyone who is NOT a “banner”.

Re JP’s new practice there is a tab labeled “Experience” which, when clicked on, brings one to a page which reads “Qualifications” which doesn’t mention any experience in the new trade at all. It just mentions the practice area, education, etc.

As I predicted long (seems like years) ago: JP will be pedaling ice cubes in hell before he’s approved by the Character Committee of the Florida Bar’s admission process after it reads Judge L’s opinion of him in U.S. v. Price, et al. Best he hold tight to his DC license! Don’t miss a dues payment, Joe.

Purpose of this Site

On August 2nd, 2006, Washington attorney Robert E. Wone was murdered at 1509 Swann Street. Over two years passed before any criminal charges were filed - and then only conspiracy, obstruction of justice and crime scene tampering charges were brought against the Swann Street housemates, all present in the home on the night of the murder: Joe Price, Dylan Ward and Victor Zaborsky.

On May 17, 2010, a DC Superior Court trial got underway and all three defendants were all acquitted in that bench trial on those pending charges.

Nearly four years later, very little seems clear about what happened that night and who murdered Robert Wone. A cloud of suspicion remains over the Swann Street defendants who have denied any involvement in the murder of their friend or in the alleged cover up.

Judge Lynn Leibovitz found a moral certainty in their collective guilt, but not evidentiary certainty. Civil proceedings in a wrongful death suit filed by Robert's family is the next chapter in this tragic story.

We continue to work together seeking answers to the mystery of Robert Wone's murder and in finding justice for his memory and legacy.