ElectionsDiscuss CNN : Ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Trump's "Ban Islam" at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by 40yearfan
Please remember that the Constitution is for American citizens.
This is false. The US Constitution "is ...

This is false. The US Constitution "is for" the government of the United States, at all levels from the Federal government down to the local city government, and it applies in every instance when the government of the United States, at any level, exercises authority and control over any person. It doesn't matter if it's a local police officer violating the 4th Amendment or a CIA operative that's an agent of the US government violating the 8th Amendment by committing an act of torture in a foreign country. The Constitution applies in all cases where the US, though it's agents, are exercising authority and control.

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Originally Posted by 40yearfan

Visitors to this country do not have all the same rights.

False once again. As the 14th Amendment states US citizens are entitled to certain privileges and immunities but the "people" which includes both citizens and non-citizens are entitled to the same rights under the Constitution. The Constitution is very explicit in establishing when it's addressing US "citizens" and their privileges and immunities and the "peope" when it's addressing the rights of the person.

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Originally Posted by 40yearfan

The other thing to remember is that during wartime (and we are at war with radical Islam even though the left refuses to admit that) allowances have to be made to accommodate the safety of our own citizens, even if it comes as the expense of non-citizens.

Article I Section 8 requires Congress to declare war. We are arguably engaged in a pseudo war but not in a Constitutional war. In truth we're actually in an ideological war that doesn't require a declaration of war and not a military war that does require a declaration of war under the Constitution.

I would remind you of what Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The Natural Right of Liberty belongs to all People and not just to American citizens. I would remind you of this expressed ideology from American history.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men (people) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This is not limited to Americans or the United States but was a universal declaration of the Rights of the Person and it applies to every man, woman, and child on the planet. When our government denies the Right of Liberty to any person, American or foreigner, it's violating the ideology upon which America was founded (as well as the 9th and 14th Amendments).

__________________"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.

We should look at Europe as an example of what not to do. In Europe they've isolated the Islamic community as opposed to assimilating it into their culture and they're paying the price for that mistake. Donald Trump and many other Republicans are advocating the isolation of the Islamic community in the United States as well as around the world and we lose the ideological war when we do that.
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If you know history, you know we CAN whip the Muslim's militarily.

We have killed so many in the past, that they were in effect silenced, and so wounded and down in numbers, that they retreated back into their home countries to regroup, and spawn more children for the next fight. Killing them in large numbers has worked...

As for Europe, they were STUPID to let so many in. This has nothing to do with isolating them at all. They came to Europe to conquer it, and yes, the European's will have to fight to rid them selves of these parasites.

When the killing starts, and it will, you will be proven wrong once again.

You have no idea who these people are, or what their goals are longer term. They will not assimilate to other cultures. They will divide and conquer them. That is what they do... Killing them maybe the only way to rid them from lands they do not belong in, in the first place. The Muslims are counting on fools like you Shiva, to allow them to gain a foot hold on foreign lands..

We have killed so many in the past, that they were in effect silenced, and so wounded and down in numbers, that they retreated back into their home countries to regroup, and spawn more children for the next fight. Killing them in large numbers has worked...

AGHAST - Are you seriously proposing mass religious genocide? I thought that type of thinking went out with the death of Adolf Hitler.

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Originally Posted by 300 H and H

As for Europe, they were STUPID to let so many in. This has nothing to do with isolating them at all. They came to Europe to conquer it, and yes, the European's will have to fight to rid them selves of these parasites.

No, they didn't flee to Europe to conquer it. They fled to escape terrorism but by being isolated instead of integrated into the society some have rebelled against the tyranny, religious bigotry, and oppression they're facing in Europe that they wanted to escape from to begin with.

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Originally Posted by 300 H and H

When the killing starts, and it will, you will be proven wrong once again.

If the killing starts then I'll be proven right.

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Originally Posted by 300 H and H

You have no idea who these people are, or what their goals are longer term. They will not assimilate to other cultures. They will divide and conquer them. That is what they do... Killing them maybe the only way to rid them from lands they do not belong in, in the first place. The Muslims are counting on fools like you Shiva, to allow them to gain a foot hold on foreign lands..

Regards, Kirk

They would assimilate if allowed to but they can't because we won't let them.

Let me address a fact that I recently heard. A study of Muslim countries revealed that 54% of Muslims support Sharia, Islamic sharia or Islamic law. They support it because they don't know any better and they need to be assimilated into cultures that base the laws on the natural rights of the person as opposed to religious texts. They simply don't know that there's a better alternative to Sharia and they will never know any better unless we teach them. it's an ideological war that we have to win. We must convince them that laws based upon the natural rights of the person are far superior to laws based upon religion.

We can do that but we must first be inclusive as opposed to being exclusive in dealing with Muslims (or anyone else for that matter). It's also much more than just a war of words. We have to show them by example because if we don't then we're just the hypocrite saying, "Do as I say and not as I do."

This all really comes down to a political ideology that is best expressed in two lines from the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men (people) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

If you believe this political ideology is superior to all other political ideologies, including religion based political ideologies (that were rejected in 1776) then you understand it's not unique in applying to just the United States but instead is universal and applies to all people. We're merely faced with the challenges of convincing others, in both our actions and our words, that this is a superior political ideology when compared to all other.

Muslims are not irrational people and they can be convinced but only if we're true to this political ideology in both our actions and our words. If they see us as hypocrites then we cannot convince them because no logical person will accept an ideology based upon hypocracy.

__________________"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.