Giggles, first off, I LOVE me some WebOS, but everyone knows that Blackberry has the best keyboards in the industry. And being second to Blackberry is just fine, in my opinion.

And second, hardware keyboards are truly a personal taste thing. Personally I found trying to find the keyboard on the iPhone a real pain in the ****. But that's me. I don't find iOS's keyboard intuative at all. And I found it laggy. Hardware keys are just snappier to me. Again, personal taste.

And I think it's a really good move for HP to come out with a keyboardless phone. It's not for me, I'll never buy it, but it's a very smart move that has been discussed ad nauseum in the forums already.

And Akon, from what I've seen of the software keyboard on the Touchpad, it will be a really good functioning software keyboard from what I've seen. It will probably be the basis of any phone keyboard, and you may be pleasantly surprised.

I guess I know what it's like for Akon, I had a few questions about my old Droid Pro on the Android forums, and I know what it's like when you just want information and everyone just accuses you of being a troll and attacking Android. And I wasn't. I wasn't trying to be a troll, I just had honest questions and I wanted someone to help me understand what was so great about Android.

This thread is nothing but arguing. If the OP wants help, he needs to ask specific questions and get specific answers. If it's just a chance to gripe about HP and webOS, we already have a general complaing thread and this one can be closed. You guys can determine that in the next few posts.

I guess I know what it's like for Akon, I had a few questions about my old Droid Pro on the Android forums, and I know what it's like when you just want information and everyone just accuses you of being a troll and attacking Android. And I wasn't. I wasn't trying to be a troll, I just had honest questions and I wanted someone to help me understand what was so great about Android.

Only a single, but revelant, difference: he hasn't asked anything yet.

Well, Akon isn't coming to WebOS because s/he wants to. That's not Akon's fault. And if the tables were reversed, I KNOW I would be looking at iOS saying things like "Holy crap, you're just now figuring out over the air updates? I've had that in my Pre since day one." Or, "Holy crap, you don't have a podcast app as good as Dr. Podder? What the heck?!" Or "Holy crap, why can't I just start typing and then automatically update facebook without opening the app first! Can we join the future people?" Or any one of a number of things that I love about WebOS that iOS doesn't have.

We all know that iOS is the king of apps, of any platform, and HP has a long loooooong way to go to catch up, but Akon, there are a number of apps here in WebOS land, both official and homebrew that you may enjoy. And there are more on the way. The blacklist app you mentioned for iOS is something that I would never use or want, but you never know, one could show up one day in homebrew.

There are some cool things in WebOS if you give it a chance. And yes there are things that need to be improved, but hey, as you said yourself, that's true with every mobile OS.

As for the swipe up gesture, I'll admit that it's not intuitive. You said that you are used to jailbreaking the iPhone. It is not intuitive to jailbreak an iPhone. You do it because it gives you a better experience. It takes a bit of a learning curve, but it is worth it because that small investment makes you more productive. That turns out to be the same explanation for gestures. You put in minute of learning and benefit from a better experience throughout years of using the device.

It is worth noting that Blackberry Playbook and Windows Phone is copying the same interface of cards with the swipe up to close applications. Clearly it's an interface that is worth stealing from.

As for the physical keyboard, I understand it a preference. I hope you understand that many, many are able to use the keyboard fine - even much better than on-screen one due to the tactile feedback. I can type with one hand which comes in handy while walking the dog. I haven't tried that on an iPhone, but I think it might be more difficult.

As for the virtual keyboard, please understand the history behind it. WebOS devices like the Palm Pre have small form factors. If they included a virtual keyboard on it, people would likely complain that it was useless due to the screen size. Still, some enterprising people found that Palm had a pre-alpha keyboard in the OS and found a way to bring it out and extend it as best they could. As for not being able to find this in the app store, I think of virtual keyboards as an OS-level enhancement so it should be found with other OS patches, not as an application that you launch. If you are used to jailbreaking your iPhone, you should have had little problem finding these virtual keyboards. I recommend that you keep your expectations very low until the Pre3 and Touchpad devices are launched with their larger displays. In the meantime, bask in the glow of having the choice between a physical and virtual keyboard something that you don't get from iOS.

I don't know why the device doesn't work in your car, but I've found that cars don't often have full support for all devices. It's almost always a hit and miss. To answer one of the previous questions from Akon, it seems like the media partition of webOS is FAT32... at least according to this: HP webOS Developer Blog and this: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...tion-ntfs.html. Maybe your car isn't smart enough to deal with a device that has multiple partitions?

If you don't like to plug in crap in your car (as you say), the Touchstone is the best solution. You plug it once and then you are done, no more plugging. If your car has usable USB ports, you are plugging.

What's sad is that whenever someone gives me an iPhone or Android, I immediately swipe up, and then I get frustrated when it doesn't do anything.

Hahaha I still do that same, And yes blackberry may. But for slide out qwerty keyboards. no one can touch "palm" and even for regular what does blackberry have that was better then the treos and the centros?

This thread is nothing but arguing. If the OP wants help, he needs to ask specific questions and get specific answers. If it's just a chance to gripe about HP and webOS, we already have a general complaing thread and this one can be closed. You guys can determine that in the next few posts.

Thank you.

Here is my thought:

Delete what you feel are the irrelvant/argumentative posts - if any are left of Akon's (and anyone esle's for that fact) after that that can be useful, keep it open.

While, as you know, I do believe he is here only to complain and not to learn, we should try our very best to be as patient and accommodating to him as is humanly possible - he might just turn around at some point and realize that if he's forced into this situation, he may as well make the best out of it, and, in that regard, this community can really help him, and perhaps, that will be something that he really appreciates, which is good for everyone.

IMHO, of course.

"The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

Oh...wireless handsfree driving is great. Point being its not new. Ipod integration isn't exactly new. I would just guess that it would be a common feature.

the operative term is 'ipod integration' which is proprietary. Palm would love it if Ford would write support into Sync. And everyone would love it if apple would license their proprietary connector so we could connect our non-apple toys to iHome devices and other docking devices...

those beefs are with Ford and Apple. Until then bluetooth is where everything is headeded, and with open standards comes ubiquity.

so, tell us what you want it to do, and we will point you to the preware patches that do it. Beyween preware, mode switcher, and advanced patchez, it's pretty amazing.