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Peace is not the answer.

Peace is not the answer
Calls to end Iraq's bloodshed are hardly noble when those who would triumph slaughter teachers as children weep.

By William Shawcross, William Shawcross' book, "Allies: Why the West had to Remove Saddam," has just been updated and republished in paperback by PublicAffairs Press.

IT SEEMS UNLIKELY that many of the so-called peace marchers who trooped through Washington and London two weekends back listened on Thursday  at least not with an open mind or sympathy  to George Bush's cogent explanation of why coalition troops are fighting and dying in Iraq.

You did not see in those demonstrations, after all, many banners reading, "Support Iraq's New Constitution," "No to Jihad" or "Stop Suicide Bombers." The crimes committed daily against the Iraqi people by other Arabs who wish to re-enslave them seem to be of little interest to Michael Moore, Jane Fonda and their followers. Rage against the daily assaults on children, women, anyone, by Islamo-fascists and ordinary national fascists is not fashionable. Only alleged American crimes are cool to decry.

It's hard to think of a more graphic illustration of the horror the U.S.-led coalition is fighting in Iraq than the mass murder on Sept. 26, in which terrorists disguised as policemen (a New York Times headline called these butchers "fighters") burst into a primary school in Iskandaria, south of Baghdad, seized five teachers (all Shiites) and shot them dead. Children stood weeping through this atrocity.

Why do crimes like this make so little impression on those Americans and Europeans who want the coalition to abandon Iraq? The demonstrators think of themselves as moral, but it is hard to think of any policy more amoral than abandoning Iraq to such an enemy.

Iraqis are dismayed by the mistakes made by the coalition. They don't like the continued presence of foreign troops. But they like the prospect of being abandoned prematurely to the terrorists even less.

One of the most publicized new icons of the U.S. peace movement, grieving mother Cindy Sheehan, has attracted attention in the vibrant new media that have grown in Iraq since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. All the Iraqis I know totally disagree with her public declarations that her son died for nothing. Those fighting the coalition approve and exploit her words.

"Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia," as the Islamo-fascists in Iraq call themselves, understands Western doubt and self-criticism. Its members are trying to create an impression of a country submerged in bloody chaos. They want to convince a world where understanding comes only from brief television images that Iraq has gone to hell. That is a lie.

Iraq was always complex  it is now vibrantly so. Despite the terrorist campaign to kill it, the country has become a school for free expression and for government elected by the people. The dread silence of half a century has given way to millions of opinions  as in the U.S., or any society that sees itself as free.

Sunni negotiators have refused to accept the draft constitution. That is certainly a setback. Now Sunnis' grievances  many of which are valid  need to be addressed peacefully. Fortunately, political discussion never stops. Three hundred conferences on the constitution have been held throughout the country, allowing 50,000 people to express their views. The 150 new, uncensored newspapers, the scores of radio stations and half a dozen TV channels that have been set up are all talking about this and other matters of political progress.

The constitution may not be perfect. But, as the commentator Amir Taheri points out: "This is still the most democratic constitution offered to any Muslim nation so far."

That is thanks to the sacrifice of Casey Sheehan and others. It should be a source of pride in the United States. Thanks to the coalition Iraqis have more confidence in their future than we do. Iraqi refugees are not fleeing abroad in vast numbers, as happened during previous crises. The Iraqi dinar has strengthened, not weakened, against the currencies of other oil-producing nations. The mistakes that have been made in Iraq since its liberation do not alter the fact that the overthrow of Hussein has given Iraqis a chance they never had before and has shaken the ramshackle, corrupt and dictatorial foundations of the Middle East.

That, of course, is why there is such bloody resistance. U.S. soldiers are being killed not by romantic nationalist insurgents (as some liberal journalists and marchers like to pretend) but by an unholy grouping of Saddamite gangsters furious at losing power, Syrian and Iranian agents intent on creating mayhem and then theocracy, and Islamo-fascists who want to enslave the world and whose local Pol Pot, Abu Musab Zarqawi, boasts of seeking to murder as many of Iraq's majority Shiite population as he can.

Zarqawi has also declared that if he is victorious, he will use Iraq as a base to drag down other regional governments and to mount attacks on the United States. Osama bin Laden has said that "the Third World War is raging in Iraq. The whole world is watching this war." All of which makes the antiwar opposition in the U.S. and Europe remarkably shortsighted and self-indulgent. We in the West have a vital stake in delivering on our promises and ensuring that terrorism does not move on to other victims, with even greater bloodlust.

The sacrifice of U.S. soldiers, of their coalition allies and of Iraqis is horrifically painful. But if we can stay long enough to enable the Iraqis to lay the firm foundation of civil society, their deaths will not be in vain. We should leave when the elected Iraqi government asks us to do so.

It is the promise of freedom that the fascists who murdered the Iraqi teachers last month want to destroy. It is astonishing and discouraging that those who think they were taking the high ground in marching though Washington do not understand this.

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Writer and broadcaster William Shawcross was born on 28 May 1946 in Sussex, England, the son of Baron Hartley Shawcross. He was educated at Eton and University College, Oxford, and has worked as a journalist for the Sunday Times. He is a regular contributor to newspapers and periodicals including the New Statesman and the Washington Post.

He is the author of biographies of the Shah of Iran and media mogul Rupert Murdoch, and of Deliver Us From Evil: Warlords and Peacekeepers in a World of Endless Conflict (2000), which addresses the complex moral and political arguments surrounding humanitarian intervention.

In 2004 he published Allies, an analysis of the alliance between Britian and the USA in the wake of the latest invasion of Iraq. He is currently working on the official biography of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, due to be published in 2006.

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Peace is not the answer
Calls to end Iraq's bloodshed are hardly noble when those who would triumph slaughter teachers as children weep.

"The crimes committed daily against the Iraqi people by other Arabs who wish to re-enslave them seem to be of little interest to Michael Moore, Jane Fonda and their followers. Rage against the daily assaults on children, women, anyone, by Islamo-fascists and ordinary national fascists is not fashionable. Only alleged American crimes are cool to decry."

1.) I reject entirely your assertion "Peace is not the answer".
Peace Works. War is stupid. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant (ASIMOV,I.)

War On ('fill-in-the-blank') only profits the people who manufacture the war materials and the bankers who finance them. Everybody and everything else on both sides of any armed conflict lose, regardless of the outcome.

War is now, always has been and always will be UNHEALTHY FOR CHILDREN AND OTHER LIVING THINGS.

2.) I resent the inference that my colleagues and myself are followers of a morbidly obese, wannabe movie producer with a CAMCORDER and a treasonous, opinionated Hollywood brat who can't even cop to her silicon boobies, tummy tucks and face lifts.

We are the LEADERS of the GREAT AMERICAN DOVES who have been doing the real planning and execution of these massive Peace rallies and educational events since the '60's.

The Michael Moores and Jane Fondas of the world are our FOLLOWERS.

Native American Legend says: "...and when the Earth is crying and the animals are dying there will arise a tribe of children of all races who will arise and break the yoke of oppression on our world. They will be called peaceful Warriors of the Rainbow..."

WASHTAY KOLAS! AHO! MITAKOUYE OYASIN! (Lakota)

En.Equiv.:= Greetings Friends! Let it be so! (amen) For All My Relations! (you)

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Peace is not the answer
Calls to end Iraq's bloodshed are hardly noble when those who would triumph slaughter teachers as children weep.

By William Shawcross, William Shawcross' book, "Allies: Why the West had to Remove Saddam," has just been updated and republished in paperback by PublicAffairs Press.

IT SEEMS UNLIKELY that many of the so-called peace marchers who trooped through Washington and London two weekends back listened on Thursday  at least not with an open mind or sympathy  to George Bush's cogent explanation of why coalition troops are fighting and dying in Iraq.

You did not see in those demonstrations, after all, many banners reading, "Support Iraq's New Constitution," "No to Jihad" or "Stop Suicide Bombers." The crimes committed daily against the Iraqi people by other Arabs who wish to re-enslave them seem to be of little interest to Michael Moore, Jane Fonda and their followers. Rage against the daily assaults on children, women, anyone, by Islamo-fascists and ordinary national fascists is not fashionable. Only alleged American crimes are cool to decry.

It's hard to think of a more graphic illustration of the horror the U.S.-led coalition is fighting in Iraq than the mass murder on Sept. 26, in which terrorists disguised as policemen (a New York Times headline called these butchers "fighters") burst into a primary school in Iskandaria, south of Baghdad, seized five teachers (all Shiites) and shot them dead. Children stood weeping through this atrocity.

Why do crimes like this make so little impression on those Americans and Europeans who want the coalition to abandon Iraq? The demonstrators think of themselves as moral, but it is hard to think of any policy more amoral than abandoning Iraq to such an enemy.

Iraqis are dismayed by the mistakes made by the coalition. They don't like the continued presence of foreign troops. But they like the prospect of being abandoned prematurely to the terrorists even less.

One of the most publicized new icons of the U.S. peace movement, grieving mother Cindy Sheehan, has attracted attention in the vibrant new media that have grown in Iraq since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. All the Iraqis I know totally disagree with her public declarations that her son died for nothing. Those fighting the coalition approve and exploit her words.

"Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia," as the Islamo-fascists in Iraq call themselves, understands Western doubt and self-criticism. Its members are trying to create an impression of a country submerged in bloody chaos. They want to convince a world where understanding comes only from brief television images that Iraq has gone to hell. That is a lie.

Iraq was always complex  it is now vibrantly so. Despite the terrorist campaign to kill it, the country has become a school for free expression and for government elected by the people. The dread silence of half a century has given way to millions of opinions  as in the U.S., or any society that sees itself as free.

Sunni negotiators have refused to accept the draft constitution. That is certainly a setback. Now Sunnis' grievances  many of which are valid  need to be addressed peacefully. Fortunately, political discussion never stops. Three hundred conferences on the constitution have been held throughout the country, allowing 50,000 people to express their views. The 150 new, uncensored newspapers, the scores of radio stations and half a dozen TV channels that have been set up are all talking about this and other matters of political progress.

The constitution may not be perfect. But, as the commentator Amir Taheri points out: "This is still the most democratic constitution offered to any Muslim nation so far."

That is thanks to the sacrifice of Casey Sheehan and others. It should be a source of pride in the United States. Thanks to the coalition Iraqis have more confidence in their future than we do. Iraqi refugees are not fleeing abroad in vast numbers, as happened during previous crises. The Iraqi dinar has strengthened, not weakened, against the currencies of other oil-producing nations. The mistakes that have been made in Iraq since its liberation do not alter the fact that the overthrow of Hussein has given Iraqis a chance they never had before and has shaken the ramshackle, corrupt and dictatorial foundations of the Middle East.

That, of course, is why there is such bloody resistance. U.S. soldiers are being killed not by romantic nationalist insurgents (as some liberal journalists and marchers like to pretend) but by an unholy grouping of Saddamite gangsters furious at losing power, Syrian and Iranian agents intent on creating mayhem and then theocracy, and Islamo-fascists who want to enslave the world and whose local Pol Pot, Abu Musab Zarqawi, boasts of seeking to murder as many of Iraq's majority Shiite population as he can.

Zarqawi has also declared that if he is victorious, he will use Iraq as a base to drag down other regional governments and to mount attacks on the United States. Osama bin Laden has said that "the Third World War is raging in Iraq. The whole world is watching this war." All of which makes the antiwar opposition in the U.S. and Europe remarkably shortsighted and self-indulgent. We in the West have a vital stake in delivering on our promises and ensuring that terrorism does not move on to other victims, with even greater bloodlust.

The sacrifice of U.S. soldiers, of their coalition allies and of Iraqis is horrifically painful. But if we can stay long enough to enable the Iraqis to lay the firm foundation of civil society, their deaths will not be in vain. We should leave when the elected Iraqi government asks us to do so.

It is the promise of freedom that the fascists who murdered the Iraqi teachers last month want to destroy. It is astonishing and discouraging that those who think they were taking the high ground in marching though Washington do not understand this.

Thank you for the best post I have ever read anywhere on the subject of Iraq. Seriously good stuff (but of course, he's British ;) ) I'm keen to read the whole book

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Originally Posted by RobinInTn

You're Welcome. I intend to check out more on this guy myself......

forget smashingplates...he just wants to get in your..........hehe!!lets see........we kill how many innocent children just to get even for or reduce the number of innocent children and ADULT teachers(those saints) that are takin place in iraq.BUT THAT"S OK!!MEANS JUSTIFIES THE ENDS!!that's so AMERICAN!!it's in the constitution!?like proactive war is!?.........go rant somewhere else!!you must think americans are dummies!!no wait!!you are a dummie!!you just want everyone else to be one!!THAT"S IT!!hey!!good luck!!ya might be right on that one!!:eek: :p :rolleyes:

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Originally Posted by lexx

forget smashingplates...he just wants to get in your..........hehe!!lets see........we kill how many innocent children just to get even for or reduce the number of innocent children and ADULT teachers(those saints) that are takin place in iraq.BUT THAT"S OK!!MEANS JUSTIFIES THE ENDS!!that's so AMERICAN!!it's in the constitution!?like proactive war is!?.........go rant somewhere else!!you must think americans are dummies!!no wait!!you are a dummie!!you just want everyone else to be one!!THAT"S IT!!hey!!good luck!!ya might be right on that one!!:eek: :p :rolleyes:

Nice spew...get any on ya? The example of the teachers murder symbolizes everything that the terrorists stand against...the ability to learn, to grow, to be free. This image of teachers being gunned down while children weep is one that should be seared into the minds of all Americans...but it will not be. Why? Because it is a secret...shhh

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Originally Posted by pwrone

Nice spew...get any on ya? The example of the teachers murder symbolizes everything that the terrorists stand against...the ability to learn, to grow, to be free. This image of teachers being gunned down while children weep is one that should be seared into the minds of all Americans...but it will not be. Why? Because it is a secret...shhh

These images are horrifying, to say the least. Those of you who support this war obviously know something that I don't know... So answer me this:

What's the PLAN??

Being that we ARE there and have started this thing, how and when does it end?

WHAT PROTECTS the other teachers and children when we FINALLY DO leave Iraq?

Are we expected to kill ALL of the terrorists? This doesn't seem possible to me... it's "who they are" and there's a "new one" born everyday...

How will this "cycle" be broken??...

How will the people in Iraq EVER TRULY be free of this??

I don't know about anyone else, but if I had at least a hint about all this, I might not be so against this war. So instead of just bashing those of us who oppose this thing, step up and provide some answers or shut the f**k up.

Re: Peace is not the answer.

I think Shawcross' article spells it out pretty well...also, Bush's speech earlier this month did a good job of re-outlining things...highlights include:

"We will not tire or rest until the war on terror is won."

"And while the killers choose their victims indiscriminately, their attacks serve a clear and focused ideology, a set of beliefs and goals that are evil but not insane."

"These extremists want to end American and Western influence in the broader Middle East, because we stand for democracy and peace and stand in the way of their ambitions."

"They hit us and expect us to run. They want us to repeat the sad history of Beirut in 1983 and Mogadishu in 1993, only this time on a larger scale with greater consequences."

"Over the past few decades, radicals have specifically targeted Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Jordan for potential takeover."

"The terrorists regard Iraq as the central front in their war against humanity, and we must recognize Iraq as the central front in our war on terror."

"The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region ."

"Evil men obsessed with ambition and unburdened by conscience must be taken very seriously, and we must stop them before their crimes can multiply."

"The radicals exploit local conflicts to build a culture of victimization in which someone else is always to blame and violence is always the solution."

"Over the years, these extremists have used a litany of excuses for violence: Israeli presence on the West Bank or the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia or the defeat of the Taliban or the crusades of a thousand years ago."

"In fact, we're not facing a set of grievances that can be soothed and addressed."

"No act of ours invited the rage of the killers, and no concession, bribe, or act of appeasement would change or limit their plans for murder. On the contrary, they target nations whose behavior they believe they can change through violence."

"Like the ideology of communism, our new enemy teaches that innocent individuals can be sacrificed to serve a political vision."

"Any government that chooses to be an ally of terror has also chosen to be an enemy of civilization. And the civilized world must hold those regimes to account."

"Our goal is to defeat the terrorists and their allies at the heart of their power. And so we will defeat the enemy in Iraq."

"It is true that the seeds of freedom have only recently been planted in Iraq but democracy, when it grows, is not a fragile flower. It is a healthy, sturdy tree."

"We're encouraging our friends in the Middle East, including Egypt and Saudi Arabia, to take the path of reform, to strengthen their own societies in the fight against terror by respecting the rights and choices of their own people."

"We're making our case through public diplomacy, stating clearly and confidently our belief in self-determination and the rule of law and religious freedom and equal rights for women; beliefs that are right and true in every land and in every culture."

"In Iraq, there is no peace without victory. We will keep our nerve and we will win that victory."

"As we do our part to confront radicalism, we know that the most vital work will be done within the Islamic world itself."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The more countries that become free and democratic, the fewer places there will be for these vermin to hide.

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Yessiree! If we blah, blah, blah enough about it more countries will become free and democratic just like US and the vermin will have no place to hide.

Think about this: You are CEO of a company that manufactures bullets and artillery shells under contract with the GSA and DoD. What are the chances of your company remaining profitable if there are no wars being fought anywhere?

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Originally Posted by tommywho70x

Yessiree! If we blah, blah, blah enough about it more countries will become free and democratic just like US and the vermin will have no place to hide.

Think about this: You are CEO of a company that manufactures bullets and artillery shells under contract with the GSA and DoD. What are the chances of your company remaining profitable if there are no wars being fought anywhere?

Of course there are many who profit from warfare. But isn't that a seperate issue from reasons for protecting one's country?

Re: Peace is not the answer.

In some ways, yes, but others, no.

I don't know how old you are, but I suspect you are a Generation X-er born after 1957.

Those of us registered as born between the Post-World War II baby boom and what I call the 'Nuclear Family Generation' between the Korean conflict and the beginning of the Space Age marked by the launch pf the Sputnik, were imprinted with completely different promises by our leaders as children than the genXerZ were.

We were promised a world without war where our military would be deployed to help facilitate and provision the development of the 'Third World' countries. That American military might would be projected around the world in humanitarian causes, like for the tsunami and hurricane rescue and recovery operations.

Diplomatic solutions were the order of the day for strategic issues like disengagement of local armed conflicts, nuclear non-proliferation, general disarmament and GLOBAL RETOOLING FOR WORLD PEACE AND PROSPERITY.

Dwight Eisenhower warned us that the 'overzealous'(his term) war profiteers posed 'the gravest threat' to that type of global planning and our representative constitutional democratic 'way of life'.

His predictions were borne out by the coups of 1963 and 1974 (Yes, I do not accept the lone gunman story and I believe Nixon was set up. There is a very well-indexed and documented scholarly work on the subject of the Watergate coup in publication, but I've forgotten the title).

So my point is that so long as arms manufacturers and their suppliers of raw materials have vested interests in politicians, this nation is going to remain at war indefinitely against some convenient enemy. The Bush family's main claim to fame is trading in strategic metals, minerals and petrochemical products.

Prescott Bush had a hand in putting Hitler in place in Germany through Fritz Theissen and others. There will likely one day be something exposed about supporting Mao's takeover of China, Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam and Fidel Castro in Cuba, who were all allies of the U.S. at one time.

George H.W. Bush's hiring and provisioning of Manuel Noriega in Panama and Sadaam Hussein are a matter of well-known public record. The secret, hidden agendas are not, because disclosure threatens the bottom lines of their trading partners and their own business enterprises.

Re: Peace is not the answer.

Originally Posted by tommywho70x

In some ways, yes, but others, no.

I don't know how old you are, but I suspect you are a Generation X-er born after 1957.

Those of us registered as born between the Post-World War II baby boom and what I call the 'Nuclear Family Generation' between the Korean conflict and the beginning of the Space Age marked by the launch pf the Sputnik, were imprinted with completely different promises by our leaders as children than the genXerZ were.

We were promised a world without war where our military would be deployed to help facilitate and provision the development of the 'Third World' countries. That American military might would be projected around the world in humanitarian causes, like for the tsunami and hurricane rescue and recovery operations.

Diplomatic solutions were the order of the day for strategic issues like disengagement of local armed conflicts, nuclear non-proliferation, general disarmament and GLOBAL RETOOLING FOR WORLD PEACE AND PROSPERITY.

Dwight Eisenhower warned us that the 'overzealous'(his term) war profiteers posed 'the gravest threat' to that type of global planning and our representative constitutional democratic 'way of life'.

His predictions were borne out by the coups of 1963 and 1974 (Yes, I do not accept the lone gunman story and I believe Nixon was set up. There is a very well-indexed and documented scholarly work on the subject of the Watergate coup in publication, but I've forgotten the title).

So my point is that so long as arms manufacturers and their suppliers of raw materials have vested interests in politicians, this nation is going to remain at war indefinitely against some convenient enemy. The Bush family's main claim to fame is trading in strategic metals, minerals and petrochemical products.

Prescott Bush had a hand in putting Hitler in place in Germany through Fritz Theissen and others. There will likely one day be something exposed about supporting Mao's takeover of China, Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam and Fidel Castro in Cuba, who were all allies of the U.S. at one time.

George H.W. Bush's hiring and provisioning of Manuel Noriega in Panama and Sadaam Hussein are a matter of well-known public record. The secret, hidden agendas are not, because disclosure threatens the bottom lines of their trading partners and their own business enterprises.

To accept your assumption, we should believe that U.S. manufactured bombs are falling above Iran and N. Korea. It must be the Bush controlled media keeping this information blackedout to the ignorant masses. Hyperbole makes for fanatical fantasies but not very good for much else.

Re: Peace is not the answer.

We will undoubtably be involved in conflict of this nature, somewhere in the world, from this point forward. It has been overdue for years. Somebody had to step up to the plate and respond to the various terrorist organizations around the globe. We should only be ashamed that we waited until it happened on our own soil before we took up arms and entered the fray.

Press on USA! Fight them where they reside instead of waiting for them to strike us where we live.