I actually liked this episode quite a bit. Sure, the stuff with the subs was wildly unrealistic, but at this point we just have to quit nitpicking that stuff and accept that they're trying to make a show with some action, and that making it realistic would also make it super boring. Am I correct that the Colorado just sunk the Illinois (or one of the 688 class subs that were hunting them)? That's definitely not going to go over well with the folks in D.C.

I was shocked when the Admiral busted out the gun and shot the White House aide and the SecDef. I didn't notice what happened right after that. Did the soldiers protecting the SecDef kill the Admiral? I assumed that's what Chaplin was telling Lt. Shepard at the end, but wasn't positive.

The story with the XO's wife and Kylie Sinclair looks like it could be promising. Not sure where they're exactly going with that, but I want to find out.

Finally, what was Chaplin's plan? To let the XO and the crew get off scot free and have him take the fall for everything? And where does that stand now that the deal was pulled and then the people were shot? Are we back to the same status quo as before this episode? Or are the ships enacting the blockade going to be pulled somewhere else and the tension will now be ratcheted down a little?

I actually liked this episode quite a bit. Sure, the stuff with the subs was wildly unrealistic, but at this point we just have to quit nitpicking that stuff and accept that they're trying to make a show with some action, and that making it realistic would also make it super boring. Am I correct that the Colorado just sunk the Illinois (or one of the 688 class subs that were hunting them)? That's definitely not going to go over well with the folks in D.C.

If I understood it correctly, they shot 3 torpedos into a rock formation to blow it up, and then used the debris cloud to disguise their rapid ascent (via ballast jettison?) above the thermocline, which make them harder to detect from the subs below the thermocline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ

I was shocked when the Admiral busted out the gun and shot the White House aide and the SecDef. I didn't notice what happened right after that. Did the soldiers protecting the SecDef kill the Admiral? I assumed that's what Chaplin was telling Lt. Shepard at the end, but wasn't positive.

They tackled the Admiral and hustled him aboard the zodiac. I assume the bad news that Chaplin told Shepard was that her dad had just shot two people and killed one and was likely going to face life in military prison if not outright execution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ

Finally, what was Chaplin's plan? To let the XO and the crew get off scot free and have him take the fall for everything? And where does that stand now that the deal was pulled and then the people were shot? Are we back to the same status quo as before this episode? Or are the ships enacting the blockade going to be pulled somewhere else and the tension will now be ratcheted down a little?

That apparently was Chaplin's plan, but the deal is now off because they thought they had the Colorado dead to rights. And going forward, the President's chief dealmaker is now dead, so I would guess back to the status quo it is.

__________________“You know, sometimes all you need is 20 seconds of insane courage. Just, literally, 20 seconds of just embarrassing bravery. And I promise you, something great will come of it.”

I find it interesting that the hunter subs would fire on them, but then as soon as they reached the surface and opened their missile tubes, the hunter subs disappeared. As Grace made that proclamation that the missiles were spun up and aimed at D.C., she looked at the SEAL's air clock and it hit zero. Then we came back from commercial and the clock was at -3:00 minutes or so, and they're down there looking for the SEAL. So we're to believe that they went to the surface for about a minute, showed the world the open tubes, and then immediately went back below the surface, and the hunter subs were no longer interested in hunting them like they had been five minutes previously?

It was a little hazy, but I think they shot up some rocks and used the debris field as cover. I don't think they actually shot the other sub.

This.

The Admiral was taken prisoner by the soldiers accompanying the administration' negotiating team.

Captain's plan seemed to be to negotiate the best deal he could for his crew and to ensure he was giving a public trial. Back to the status quo now, but the ships enforcing the blockade are needed elsewhere (Taiwan) to deal with China. Don't know how the navy will respond but they can 1) abandon the blockade and deal with China, 2) Lessen the blockade and deal with China but with less capability, 3) maintain the blockade and let China do its thing, or 4) negotiate an end to the standoff and then go deal with China. 4 seems rather unlikely with how the last negotiation attempt turned out.

I imagine the White House will spin this that the captain/crew killed the aide and shot the SecDef. If I was the captain, I would have had a soldier filming/recording the negotiations.

I imagine the White House will spin this that the captain/crew killed the aide and shot the SecDef. If I was the captain, I would have had a soldier filming/recording the negotiations.

It's not like Chaplin and his crew are cut off from all media. He'd be able to make a statement and tell what really happened.

Which reminds me, why haven't news crews from all over the globe descended on this island to tell the story of Chaplin and his crew? I'd think that if Chaplin is hell bent on getting his public trial and making sure that the world knows the truth, the easiest way to make sure that happens is to be cooperative with the media and let them have access to what's going on and the reasoning behind what he's doing.

Is the US Navy blockade keeping planes with media members from landing on the island?

If I were he, I'd be worried about them sending in Delta Force or SEALs disguised as cameramen. Better to be safe and strictly enforce a no-fly zone.

But he should still be able to get a video off-island, right, using the warlord?

He got his message off island in the pilot, so I don't think there is any problem doing so. I see no reason why it couldn't be transmitted via the internet or some other method. I don't think they'd have to transport the physical media to someone outside the blockade.

But you rasied a different issue. If boats and planes aren't being allowed to come to the island, when will the locals begin to run out of supplies? Being a remote island, they're probably more self-sufficient than most people here in the US, but even still, there comes a point when people are going to be complaining about supplies running out.

But you rasied a different issue. If boats and planes aren't being allowed to come to the island, when will the locals begin to run out of supplies? Being a remote island, they're probably more self-sufficient than most people here in the US, but even still, there comes a point when people are going to be complaining about supplies running out.

I'm pretty sure that Curry raised that as an issue when they first started negotiating.

__________________“You know, sometimes all you need is 20 seconds of insane courage. Just, literally, 20 seconds of just embarrassing bravery. And I promise you, something great will come of it.”

I loved this episode, although I did find it a little hard to follow. Was the captain really going to take the deal even though they still weren't budging on the public trial? There's no way they will ever do that as long as the current scum are in charge. And did the girl's Dad tell him not to cave because there are lots of people back home ready to get rid of the powers that be? Really a miscalculation bringing him along.

I loved this episode, although I did find it a little hard to follow. Was the captain really going to take the deal even though they still weren't budging on the public trial? There's no way they will ever do that as long as the current scum are in charge. And did the girl's Dad tell him not to cave because there are lots of people back home ready to get rid of the powers that be? Really a miscalculation bringing him along.

I don't think Marcus ever expected them to agree to the public trial. He was simply standing his ground until they decided to try and divide and conquer by getting his XO and the crew off the hook. He was basically stonewalling to protect his people.

As for the Admiral, yes, he wanted Marcus to hold out because he sensed that the current administration was soon going to be pushed out, and that Marcus would be used by the new administration a symbol of standing up for what's right rather than being treated as a traitor.

...
Finally, what was Chaplin's plan? To let the XO and the crew get off scot free and have him take the fall for everything? And where does that stand now that the deal was pulled and then the people were shot? Are we back to the same status quo as before this episode? Or are the ships enacting the blockade going to be pulled somewhere else and the tension will now be ratcheted down a little?

Best episode since the premiere. That caught me totally off guard when the admiral opened fire to prevent the orders from being given to the attack subs. For a second, I was thinking he was going to stay on the island and join the others. Again, I got a real Star Trek vibe from the sub battle scenes.

This thread is so short though. Did most people here give up on this show? While it's been kind of uneven, episodes like this one show that it can still be very good. I'm sure the realism of the sub scenes could be nitpicked to death, but I really don't care.

Yes, this is not as professional as I have observed the Navy to be in my 32 years as a Civil Servant working for the Navy. The consequences of Tailhook included a lot of sexual harrassment training. That COB would have been called on his attitudes years ago.

Nice to see Grace earn the COBs respect, though I've lost respect for him, criticizing the commander on the con, in front of the men, on an active mission. He should be back in the brig.

(And I say this as the son of a MasterChief who literally DID put his Commanding Officer on report).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sieglinde

Yes, this is not as professional as I have observed the Navy to be in my 32 years as a Civil Servant working for the Navy. The consequences of Tailhook included a lot of sexual harrassment training. That COB would have been called on his attitudes years ago.

Yeah he would have been in the brig with the second time of calling the LT "Grace.

Like she really needed the CoB to tell her that they can't getinto a shooting battle with fast attack subs, they can't dive past a limit, etc. This show is full of people stating the obvious.

How about a random civilian telling a trained Navy SEAL how diving works? "You only have 30 minutes of air." "Stay on the tether."

I guess after she could tell the Captain to fire off full pings TWICE, they let her run any show.

Also consider that the attack subs didn't give a ... whether the Colorado knew they were there or not, so why did they wait until they "detected a weakness on the sonar array?" You mean that now they could penetrate the perimeter and attack the sub inside and the sub itself wouldn't know they were there? "We're all going right in to shoot the guy, but not if he sees me coming holding the gun."

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLiquid

Best episode since the premiere. That caught me totally off guard when the admiral opened fire to prevent the orders from being given to the attack subs. For a second, I was thinking he was going to stay on the island and join the others. Again, I got a real Star Trek vibe from the sub battle scenes.

This thread is so short though. Did most people here give up on this show? While it's been kind of uneven, episodes like this one show that it can still be very good. I'm sure the realism of the sub scenes could be nitpicked to death, but I really don't care.

Among many, consider that Captain Grace could have opened up the missile silos and made the demand BEFORE the whole sub battle! Nothing would have been lost except 12 minutes of action.

Should we ask why the NATO monitoring station on this backwater island has a full sophisticated sonar perimeter to protect said backwater island?

Like she really needed the CoB to tell her that they can't get a shooting battle with fast attack subs, they can't dive past a limit, etc. This show is full of people stating the obvious.

It's probably more for the viewers' edification but it could have been worked in more subtly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netringer

Also consider that the attack subs didn't give a ... whether the Colorado knew they were there or not, so why did they wait until they "detected a weakness on the sonar array?" You mean that now they could penetrate the perimeter and attack the sub inside and the sub itself wouldn't know they were there?

The attack subs need to be able to take out the Colorado before she can get to missile firing depth and launch. Ships and aircraft can be detected by the outpost and warned to stay outside the 200 mi line. But submarines can sneak in and the Colorado probably can't reliably patrol the area without putting herself at risk. The problem is that their submarine detection and nuclear deterrent are one and the same.

So the ring of sonar sensors is a plot device to prevent attack submarines from sneaking in. If they could come and go as they please, they could also mine the area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netringer

Among many, consider that Captain Grace could have opened up the missile silos and made the demand BEFORE the whole sub battle! Noting would have been lost except 12 minutes of action.

I think the problem was that the sonar buoy was below missile firing depth so they had to sneak out there and hope the attack submarines wouldn't detect them because their nuclear deterrent was basically unavailable at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netringer

Should we ask why the NATO monitoring station on this backwater island has a full sophisticated sonar perimeter to protect said backwater island?

Beats me. If I was the writer I would have made the sensors part of a larger anti-submarine sonar array. Then they could say that they merely tapped into the sensors nearest them, creating a perimeter of sorts around the island. The island would have to be located in a logical place for such a network though.

Like she really needed the CoB to tell her that they can't get a shooting battle with fast attack subs, they can't dive past a limit, etc. This show is full of people stating the obvious.

I think part of the problem is that what's obvious to people who are up on current military capabilities won't be obvious to the vast majority of the show's audience, so they need to have somebody to explain things to the audience. And unfortunately, they didn't think of that when creating the characters, so they have to settle for having characters to whom everything is obvious explain things to other characters to whom everything is obvious.

What they need is somebody on the sub to whom all this stuff isn't obvious, to whom people can explain things. Maybe a cute kid.

I find it interesting that the hunter subs would fire on them, but then as soon as they reached the surface and opened their missile tubes, the hunter subs disappeared. As Grace made that proclamation that the missiles were spun up and aimed at D.C., she looked at the SEAL's air clock and it hit zero. Then we came back from commercial and the clock was at -3:00 minutes or so, and they're down there looking for the SEAL. So we're to believe that they went to the surface for about a minute, showed the world the open tubes, and then immediately went back below the surface, and the hunter subs were no longer interested in hunting them like they had been five minutes previously?

I know little if anything about the subs' capabilities, and DEFINITELY don't want to start a pages-long discussion about this, but I don't believe the sub needs to go to the surface to spin up their missles, and I don't believe they need to be on the suface for the sats to know they've done so.

I imagine the White House will spin this that the captain/crew killed the aide and shot the SecDef. If I was the captain, I would have had a soldier filming/recording the negotiations.

Chaplin explained that the whole incident would be covered up. I forget his wording but it was something to the effect that the US would have to admit they screwed up so they would act like the whole thing never happened.

There is a maximum depth they can be to launch the missiles. It's not very deep, but I'm not sure what it is, and it might even be periscope depth.

Chaplin explained that the whole incident would be covered up. I forget his wording but it was something to the effect that the US would have to admit they screwed up so they would act like the whole thing never happened.

I liked this episode, but what I don't really get is why, if the Colorado escaped the Illinois, then they don't just go back to the deal they had? I get that someone got shot, and that the show is supposed to last more than 5 or 6 episodes, but it seems like the reasons for both sides to make that deal still exist?

__________________
I think we should limit posting in threads like this to only those who know nothing about the subject. -- retrodog

Would you trust the negotiator from the White house after you reached an agreement with the last one which she then tore up because she was going to destroy your sub and crew instead? It is obvious what she thought the better deal was... sub and crew dead.

Not to mention that the only person there who had the authority to speak on behalf of the White House was dead, so even if they were willing to put the terms of that deal back into place, it would take someone else with authority to make that deal.