And when I was 12 years old, my father took me to the circus, the greatest show on earth.There were clowns and elephants and dancing bearsAnd a beautiful lady in pink tights flew high above our heads.And as I sat there watching the marvelous spectacleI had the feeling that something was missing.I don't know what, but when it was over,I said to myself, "Is that all there is to a circus?"

Is that all there is, is that all there isIf that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancingLet's break out the booze and have a ballIf that's all there is

...I know what you must be saying to yourselves.If that's the way she feels about it why doesn't she just end it all?Oh, no. Not me. I'm in no hurry for that final disappointment.For I know just as well as I'm standing here talking to you,when that final moment comes and I'm breathing my last breath, I'll be saying to myself,

Is that all there is, is that all there isIf that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancingLet's break out the booze and have a ballIf that's all there is

Not a bad philosophy of life, not bad at all, to break out the booze and have a ball. Have a listen.

To me it's funny to think of this (typically conceived to be) all powerful, all knowing god, who (I suppose, but most might not have thought) has all the same questions about his own existence as we have about ours.

cc, I don't think people kill themselves because 'this is all there is' but rather they hesitate and decide not to kill themselves because they are afraid that 'this is all there is', i.e., that suicide means irrevocable non-existence.

From my experience, when people truly believe this is all there is, they tend to cherish it pretty fervently. Though there may be a group in transition, losing faith in a spiritual realm, who are depressed by the damage to their worldview, who ask what the point is. (Before they have a chance to realize the point is to enjoy the very limited time we each have here.) It can be a real struggle for many people, and take years.

Roger, I'd say the "this" and "that" refer to the physical aspects of reality, since ending one's life puts one's existence firmly outside the physical realm (science says, no ghosts). When god repeats the line in heaven it must then be referring to that spiritual realm, and god is asking the question, 'is this spiritual realm really it? or is there a deeper realm I could escape to?'

Much like depressed people might take their own life to escape the woes of physical reality, we might imagine a bored god doing the same, when in hesitation their consciousness steps in and asks, "what if you're wrong about this afterlife thing"?

Sure god knows everything about me and you, but does he (she? it?) know how he got here?

(For the record I'm a strict physicalist concerning the mind-body problem.)

Does god know where god came from? Why a god and not 'not a god'? Can god make him/her/itself disappear? Could god fear his nonexistence the way we do? Is god capable of nonexistence? What kind of power does a sentient being have if they don't have the power to not exist? Sorry to rant.

To me it's funny to think of this (typically conceived to be) all powerful, all knowing god, who (I suppose, but most might not have thought) has all the same questions about his own existence as we have about ours.

cc, I don't think people kill themselves because 'this is all there is' but rather they hesitate and decide not to kill themselves because they are afraid that 'this is all there is', i.e., that suicide means irrevocable non-existence.

From my experience, when people truly believe this is all there is, they tend to cherish it pretty fervently. Though there may be a group in transition, losing faith in a spiritual realm, who are depressed by the damage to their worldview, who ask what the point is. (Before they have a chance to realize the point is to enjoy the very limited time we each have here.) It can be a real struggle for many people, and take years.

Roger, I'd say the "this" and "that" refer to the physical aspects of reality, since ending one's life puts one's existence firmly outside the physical realm (science says, no ghosts). When god repeats the line in heaven it must then be referring to that spiritual realm, and god is asking the question, 'is this spiritual realm really it? or is there a deeper realm I could escape to?'

Much like depressed people might take their own life to escape the woes of physical reality, we might imagine a bored god doing the same, when in hesitation their consciousness steps in and asks, "what if you're wrong about this afterlife thing"?

Sure god knows everything about me and you, but does he (she? it?) know how he got here?

(For the record I'm a strict physicalist concerning the mind-body problem.)

Does god know where god came from? Why a god and not 'not a god'? Can god make him/her/itself disappear? Could god fear his nonexistence the way we do? Is god capable of nonexistence? What kind of power does a sentient being have if they don't have the power to not exist? Sorry to rant.

"...I'd say the "this" and "that" refer to the physical aspects of reality, since ending one's life puts one's existence firmly outside the physical realm (science says, no ghosts)."

---yes, to the conceptualize aspects of dualistic reality. However, for those that are not interested in ending their life, what exactly/absolutely is the non-conceptual this and that? We really don't know what this and that is. That was my point. So, one can go through a complete life, no life ending needs, and still not know exactly what this and that is.

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Brian Hines: Return to the OneIf you'd like to support the Church's efforts in a small way, and also learn about a great Greek mystic philosopher (Plotinus) who wonderfully embodies our creedless creed, consider buying our unpastor's book, "Return to the One: Plotinus's Guide to God-Realization."