I realize your first point, and your second question is exactly what I was thinking. In some instance another DA is going to think the first DA caved too easily and charge forward.

Yeah, we're working to de-motivate them from doing that...

Quote:

A follow on action for some sort of unlawful prosecution would seem reasonable to me if that were possible. Otherwise the door is left open for continued harassment of OLL owners (and potentially any gun owner).

The stock mounts and has the same shape of a monte carlow stock. It is an exstention of the stock and not a pistol grip or thumbhole through the stock body. Your hand gripping the U-15 stock would be in the same position as a standard straight back stock like a 1903-A3.

__________________
PLEASE WEAR EYE PROTECT & PROTECTIVE GEAR IN SHOP!!!!!! You can order another part from from manufacturer, but you can't order another finger or eye from your mother & father.

***This DOES NOT constitute GOOD or SANE legal - professional gunsmithing - psychiatric MD - tax - accounting -gardening advice. Please contactact qualified a professional in their repective specialties.*** AWHHH go ahead and mix match specialities that could be funny!!!!!

Glad everything went well. Just realized I was at the show and listened to the interaction between Iggy and the FFL, posted it here in part. Really, such a cowardly dink for going after a legit seller in an open environment. If someone in that position really wants to make a difference, it's not at a gun show open to the paying public. What he did is the equivilent of hunting on fenced in land.

I think most folks know the FFL by sight. I don't know when the next Cow Palce or Vallejo show takes place but I'm certaily going to find something that goes "bang" to buy at his table.

I think most folks know the FFL by sight. I don't know when the next Cow Palce or Vallejo show takes place but I'm certaily going to find something that goes "bang" to buy at his table.

Please do. John has been very good to our cause at real personal cost to himself.

-Gene

__________________
Gene Hoffman
Chairman, The Calguns FoundationDONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @CalgunsFdn on Twitter.Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!

"The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

Is former SA Chinn still trying to muddle through his probationary period with the SFPD?

And the other question, that inquiring minds want to know, is did this case have something to do with his exit from DoJ? Given the dismissal and as much time / resources as DoJ had to have put into it, losing in that manner had to be bitter for the bosses.

__________________ -- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun

Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served.

Quote:

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -- James Madison

Is former SA Chinn still trying to muddle through his probationary period with the SFPD?

I would expect that he's through that at SFPD. Some on here would know for sure.

Quote:

And the other question, that inquiring minds want to know, is did this case have something to do with his exit from DoJ? Given the dismissal and as much time / resources as DoJ had to have put into it, losing in that manner had to be bitter for the bosses.

No idea and I don't want to speculate on something that important absent actual knowledge. I do expect that it's his last official activity at BoF.

-Gene

__________________
Gene Hoffman
Chairman, The Calguns FoundationDONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @CalgunsFdn on Twitter.Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!

"The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

The "I was just following orders" defense didn't work at Nuremberg, and IMHO is equally invalid anywhere else.

This mess will stop when "rank and file" LEOs of all stripes stand up and say something to the effect of "I must respectfully decline to obey what I believe to be an illegal order."

Yes. If ordered to "take a hill" occupied by people who are not breaking the law, I DO want them to be passive and refuse an unlawful order.

If the "child" is in no real danger, I DO want them to be passive and refuse an unlawful order. The kid- (or more accurately parenting-) cops are the only ones CLOSE to the various drug- and gun-cops in terms of the miscarriages of justice they regularly inflict on good and decent people.

Catching the (really) bad guys is what they're charged (and paid) to do, and every minute they spend harassing a good person in the process of enforcing a stupid, improper law is nothing more or less than dereliction of duty. Further, I consider them morally culpable when these choices leave a REAL criminal on the street harm the law-abiding.

We have separation of powers in this nation for a reason. It really doesn't matter how out of line the legislature gets, if the executive refuses to enforce it then no harm can possibly be done. This is basic 9th-grade civics.

Further, let's face it: It's easy to go in all ninja'd up when you know the man on the other side of the door you're kicking in isn't going to shoot you. Most of them would RATHER go after "low hanging fruit" which leaves the REAL criminals free to go about their heinous business.

I am not anti-LEO, the fact is that a majority of my closest friends are LEOs of one sort or another, and every one of them have suffered some career damage because they put their conscience ahead of their wallet.

That they're not rendered unnoticeable because they're surrounded by hundreds or thousands of their peers is the biggest problem we have.

Don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining, nor ask me to accept jack-boot behavior from those sworn to "protect and serve."

Respectfully,

DD

Beautiful, I couldn't have said it better myself!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex Arma

Is it reasonable to expect every LEO to resign from their jobs, and forfeit their pensions and jobs when the legislature passes dumb laws?

YES! YES! YES! If they don't they are automaton JBT's. They made that choice when they chose their profession. Only with unquestioned and blind compliance by LE can liberties be violated by the government since they are its agents.

All I want to know is when the FBI is going to break down the door of this iggy tool at 3am, shove 30 SMG's in his face, throw him against a wall with a few kicks and elbows thrown in, and drag him off to jail in his underwear?

The Calguns Foundation Announces Successful Defense
of John Contos of Sacramento-Based Sonoma Firearms

Case based on the incorrect theory that U-15 Stocks are
“thumbhole” stocks (and/or constitute a pistol grip) is dismissed.

Improper prosecution brought by California Department of Justice
Bureau of Firearms as retribution and regulatory over-reach.

December 18, 2008
After having my case dismissed Dec. 18,2009. The Superior Court OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA Ordered any and all law enforcement agencies holding the property of J. Contos to return said property to J. Contos (or his agent) forthwith, including but not limited to all property listed on the six (6) page Department of Justice Property receipt attached to this order as Exhibit A. the Ca. DOJ Bureau of Firearms would not release the property unless I applied for a background check $20, sent Dec.4, 2009 known as a LEGR (Law Enforcement Gun Release). I already have a COE ( Certificate Of Eligibility) from the CA. DOJ good for one year? Did the CA. DOJ Bureau of firearms violate my civil rights? My diligent and industrious Attorney Don Kilmer is making arrangement for the return of my property. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/i...lies/smile.gif

(CALGUNS.NET) - Redwood City, CA – The Calguns Foundation (CGF) announces that it has again successfully defended an innocent person charged with violating California’s complex and overbearing firearms laws. The Solano County District Attorney’s office dismissed all charges in an Assault Weapon-related case in People v. Contos. John Contos, the proprietor of Sonoma Firearms, was charged based upon the theory that the California Rifles’ brand “U-15” stock constituted a thumbhole stock (or was in fact a pistol grip) - and was thus a feature triggering Assault Weapon status under California law.

Background: In June 2007, Mr. Contos was contacted by Supervisory Special Agent Ignatius Chinn of the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms in relation to sales of off-list lower receivers for California-legal rifles. According to California law, the serialized “lower receivers” of rifles or pistols that might be considered “Assault Weapons” – and which are not specified by make and model – cannot be considered “Assault Weapons” unless they are specifically listed in California “Assault Weapons” law by make and model. Receivers not listed by make and model are known as “off-list”, and are perfectly legal to sell and possess.

However, even though these receivers are perfectly legal, it is still possible to create an illegal assault weapon by putting the wrong “accessories” on one of these receivers. One such accessory, which is prohibited, except under certain circumstances, is the “thumbhole stock.”

At the Solano County Gun Show in July 2007, Agent Chinn observed that Mr. Contos was selling off-list lower receivers configured with U-15 “butt stocks.” Agent Chinn claimed such stocks were “thumbhole stocks” that could make these receivers into “Assault Weapons” by having certain feature configurations that are prohibited. As there is actually no “hole” in a U-15 stock, this position was at best specious. Later that summer, Agent Chinn obtained and served a warrant based on the “thumbhole stock” theory and seized numerous firearms - including handguns and various rifles having no relationship to this dispute.

The Case: The Calguns Foundation retained the Law Offices of Don Kilmer to defend Mr. Contos. After passage of many months and no prosecution was forthcoming, Mr. Kilmer began the civil process of demanding the return of Mr. Contos’ property. After being stonewalled by the Bureau of Firearms, Mr. Kilmer filed a Tort Claims Act claim for the return of all property as well as compensation for business interruption. Just as the window for a response to the Tort Claims Act claim was to expire, the Bureau of Firearms persuaded a Solano County District Attorney to bring criminal charges (in June 2008), claiming that Mr. Contos was guilty of offering to sell illegal Assault Weapons.

After reviewing the proposed testimony of the State’s expert (Agent Chinn) the Solano County DA had the courage to admit that he could not meet the burden of proving that a U-15-equipped rifle or receiver was an Assault Weapon. With the case’s dismissal, Mr. Contos looks forward to the prompt return of his property. The Foundation was prepared, if necessary, to secure expert testimony from topologists (mathematicians specializing in the fields of surfaces and shapes) relating to the design of the U-15 stock and its not possessing a “thumbhole”.

The Calguns Foundation remains concerned the Bureau of Firearms has shown a pattern of using the criminal courts to extract retribution against adversaries and quash dissent about their overbroad view of the law. Bureau of Firearms has - on multiple occasions - instigated criminal charges as it became clear that they would be required to return property by civil action. Additionally, the Bureau of Firearms continues to attempt to use the criminal courts to expand the regulatory reach of the Assault Weapon laws. This is contrary to California law. This pattern and practice of charging citizens with a crimes for the purpose of exploring the regulatory boundaries of a fundamental right are extremely troubling and may require redress.

CGF offers its congratulations and thanks to John Contos for his support and patience during this arduous process. Mr. Contos has been a strong personal supporter of the Calguns community, even as this process has exacted real costs to him. Thanks also to The Law Offices of Don Kilmer for their excellent work on this case to date.

Also, CGF offers its congratulations to Grant Early, inventor of the California Rifles U-15 stock, upon having it clearly deemed to be neither a thumbhole stock nor a pistol grip.

Please consider a donation to offset the legal fees and other costs that The Calguns Foundation bore in this case - and which it continues to bear in order to defend other cases. Your donations are likely to be tax deductible, as The Calguns Foundation expects to be obtaining 501(c)(3) tax-deductible status. You can donate (at http://calgunsfoundation.org/main/index.php/donate) via check, credit card, homebanking payments, and Paypal.

The Calguns Foundation expects to see this case through to a final and satisfactory conclusion for both Mr. Contos and the California sport shooting community.

Agent Chinn knowingly committed a false arrest, and did so under color of authority. Immediate termination and prosecution is in order. Nothing less is acceptable. For that effort I would gladly contribute.

Iggy/DAs should be charged with something. 4th amendment comes to mind.

Zombie thread! There are certainly some interesting angles on this case. The big question will be whether they are really worth pursuing.

-Gene

__________________
Gene Hoffman
Chairman, The Calguns FoundationDONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @CalgunsFdn on Twitter.Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!

"The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

congrats...love to hear about the wins.
to make DOJ and people like chinn think twice before trampling our rights, u guys should go the extra step and sue, u should sue the dept, the agent and the people who trained the agent. that will help offset the costs, or atleast if unsuccessful waste their time and money like they did to Mr. Contos.
if people and organizations like cgn start hitting the pockets of the people doing the dirty work of the anti-gunners they would have less people willing to do that dirty work.

and if the money from a law suit wasnt needed or wanted it would be a big FU to those A-holes if used for donations and gun give aways.

While we do have a lot of "pattern & practice" with DOJ BoF on certain employees, governments & employees are not as easy to sue as you think. It takes repeated situations with lotsa documentation to trigger threshold, and having incorporated RBKA will help further. We don't need to waste money tilting at windmills.

__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life memberNo postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, areto be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Netownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

The leftists have thoroughly (again) convinced the public that people shouldn't be held accountable for their OWN actions...instead blaming the 'evil' manufacturers. The lack of common sense in their argument is staggering, but the scariest part of it is that people buy into it.
I also feel strongly about going after the individuals in this case in Civil Court. They've got to be held personally responsible for their actions, and IMO not until then will they have the motivation to act responsibly, and leave their personal feelings at the door. Obviously this ***** has it in for law-abiding gun owners, and therefore needs to be taught a lesson.
IIRC, the defense lawyer stated himself in a post on here that he's witnessed 'Chinn' personally 'manufacturing' evidence. I'm not a lawyer, but I at least know that right there is several steps on the ladder ABOVE negligence. That's criminal! Dude has to pay!
BTW...who the heck names their kid 'Ignacius'? That guy was born 5 cards short of a full deck.