Heralds of Chaos warband

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Subject: Heralds of Chaos warband Tue 11 Sep 2012 - 22:42

Hey All,

I've seen the question of 'Why no Chaos warrior warband?' asked many times across various forums, with the usual response of 'Too many heavily armoured chaps with hero stats'. So, as my first attempt to design a warband, I've tried to make a fairly balanced chaos warrior warband for BTB and other open-ish settings. What I've done to try and make it viable (Will need play-testing, opinions and critiques please!) is:>Made heroes in Chaos armour expensive and only 4 starting heroes.>High costs, low numbers (12max) for the elite style of the warriors>At most, 50% of the warband will be heavily armoured (not just one Warrior of Chaos leading a pack of rabble) not counting a 'skill' for Lad's got talent Marauders> Accommodated for Undivided and Major gods.

Any feedback regarding anything will be appreciated NB: It's not 100% complete, I just need to create Slaanesh spells. Also, this is much neater in my word doc

The Heralds of Chaos:The Heralds of Chaos warband must include a minimum of three (3) models and a maximum of twelve (12):Before heroes and henchmen are hired, the warband’s allegiance must be chosen. The allegiance allows access to the patron god’s skill list (i.e. If aligned with Nurgle, you can only choose from Nurgle special skills and not from Khorne, Slaanesh or Tzeentch). If the warband is aligned with no god in particular (undivided) they may choose from the Chaos Glory skills. Warbands cannot change their allegiance, nor can they hire heroes or henchmen aligned with another god, such is the animosity held between the ruinous powers.

Heroes: 1 Herald of Chaos: 110gc to hire. A warband must contain one Herald- no more, no less!M WS BS S T W I A Ld4 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 9Weapons/Armour: The Herald may choose weapons and armour from the Herald weapons list.

Special rules: >Leader- the Herald is the leader of the warband and any models within 6” of the Herald may use his leadership instead of their own. If the Herald is slain, a Champion may replace him and become a new Herald unless the warband is aligned to Tzeentch in which case the Sorcerer becomes the new Herald. >Warrior of Chaos- the Herald is a warrior of Chaos and wears a suit of chaos armour fused to his skin. The Herald has a 4+ armour save. This armour cannot be removed, cannot be replaced and also includes a helmet. >Brawn over brains- (Khorne aligned warbands only) Khorne aligned warbands may never hire any hired sword/ dramatis personae that can use magic in any way, shape or form.

0 -1 Sorcerer: 75gc to hire. (Khorne aligned warbands may never hire a sorcerer)M WS BS S T W I A Ld4 3 4 4 4 1 4 1 9Weapons/Armour: The sorcerer may choose weapons and armour from the Herald weapons list.Special rules: >Wizard- The sorcerer is a wizard and can use magic. Note: Unaligned warbands may learn spells from the Chaos rituals list as described in the Mordheim rulebook. Nurgle aligned warbands may learn spells from the Nurgle rituals list as described in the Carnival of Chaos rules. Slaanesh and Tzeentch aligned warbands may choose from the Slaanesh and Tzeentch (respectively) magic lists below. >Sorcerer of Chaos- Like all warriors of chaos, the sorcerer has chaos armour fused one his skin, however it only confers a 5+ save as the sorcerer places more faith in his magic than his armour to protect him. This armour cannot be removed, cannot be replaced and also includes a helmet.

Special rules: >Warrior of Chaos- Champions of chaos wear a suit of chaos armour fused to their skin. The Champion has a 4+ armour save. This armour cannot be removed, cannot be replaced and also includes a helmet.

>Servant of the blood god- The Slaughterer is equipped with a suit of chaos armour fused to his skin that confers a 5+ armour save. This armour cannot be removed, cannot be replaced and also includes a helmet.

0 -2 Daemons: 50gc to hire. Note: The type of Daemon available to the warband is determined by allegiance.

All daemons suffer from the same special rules noted here: >Daemonic- Daemons are the raw stuff of Chaos made manifest and as such never gain experience. >Daemonic aura- All Daemons have an unnatural aura and have an unalterable ward save of 5+ >Daemonic instability- Daemons are not creatures of this realm and if sufficiently wounded, may lose their grip on reality or even be rejected by this realm. If taken OOA, a Daemon is banished back to whence it came on a D6 roll of 1-3 (Do not roll for injuries). If the warband routs, all Daemons must take a leadership test. If this test is failed, the Daemons lose their grip on reality and are banished. >All Daemons cause Fear, are Immune to poison and are Immune to psychology.Fury (Unaligned warbands)M WS BS S T W I A Ld5 3 0 4 4 1 3 2 10

Special rules: >While not Daemons, Spawn follow the rules for Daemons except Daemonic instability. Note: For fun, you can represent the spawn with the appropriate Daemon (ie: Beast of Nurgle, Fiend of Slaanesh, Screamer of Tzeentch or Juggernaut of Khorne)

Chaos skill list:Note that if any hero accrues three Chaos Glory/god-specific skills, he will have to roll a D6 at the beginning and end of each battle to determine whether or not the corrupting powers of chaos are too much for his mortal body to bear. On the result of 1-3, the hero mutates into a spawn, such is his weakness! The hero loses all equipment, skills and experience and may be added to the warband roster if there is no spawn already. On a 4-6 the hero’s manages to stave off spawndom and may fight as normal.

Chaos Glory: These skills are for warbands unaligned with any god.

>Favoured Champion: The hero is too valuable to be lost in the eyes of the gods (It’s too entertaining to let him die...yet). The hero may ignore all ‘Dead’ results on the serious injury table on a D6 result of 5+. >Daemonic Weapon: The hero receives an ensorcelled weapon from the gods. The hero must pay the base cost of the weapon in gratitude to the gods or he will have the weapon taken back – The gods do not bestow glory upon the ungrateful! To determine the effects of the ensorcelled weapon, roll a D6 and consult the table below:D6 result Effect1 The weapon is possessed by a lesser Daemon of Malice. The weapon cannot be parried and at the start of each round of combat, roll a D6. On the result of 1-2, the weapon inflicts one S2 hit on the wielder.2-3 The weapon has runes of conflagration engraved upon it. The weapon causes flaming attacks4-5 The weapon is imbued with the corrupting powers of chaos. The weapon causes poisoned attacks (Choose which poison the weapon is imbued with). 6 The weapon is possessed by a Daemon. The first attack made with this weapon always strikes first and cannot be parried except on a D6 roll of 6.

>Daemonic Courage: Reassurances and promises of eternal glory are whispered into the mind of the hero, filling him with visions of power and wealth beyond imagination. The hero is now immune to psychology. >Ascension: (Leader only). At long last, the herald has proven himself worthy in the eyes of the gods! He may permanently boost one stat (M, WS, etc.) to its racial maximum. Note: This cannot be the first Chaos Glory skill selected. >Protection of Chaos: Having proven his skill and dedication to the dark gods, the hero is deemed worthy in the eyes of the gods and is granted with the armour of chaos. This skill may only be taken by marauder heroes and grants a 4+ armour save that replaces any armour. Chaos armour is extremely heavy and confers the normal -1 M for heavy armour as marauders are not use to wearing this much weight. >Mark of Chaos: This skill may be taken twice. The hero has been marked with the touch of chaos and can choose one (1) mutation from the Cult of the Possessed mutations list at half cost.

Nurgle skills: >Grandfatherly love: Nurgle aligned warbands may choose from the Carnival of Chaos warband special skills, however, due to fairness issues the warband may not choose the Nurgles’ Rot special skill. Follow the link below to find the skill chart.http://www.mordheimer.com/warbands/official/carnival.htm

Khornate skills: >Mark of Khorne: Bestowed with the symbol of his patron god, the hero now has the ‘Frenzy’ special rule and may never lose his frenzy. >Blood for the blood god! : Eager to please the patron god of murder, the hero is filled with a desire to spill even more blood than before. The hero gains an extra attack for each unsaved wound dealt to him for the remainder of the game. Note: If the racial maximum for A is reached, only one additional attack can be gained. >Skulls for the skull throne! : The hero is adept at slaughter and can easily dispatch lesser foes with ease. When the hero delivers a critical hit, performs a master strike on a D6 value of 4+. >Slaughterfiend: (Slaughterer only). The Slaughterer can reroll the first unsuccessful roll to hit when in close combat. >Blood thirster: If an enemy model is taken OOA by a hero with this skill, the hero may roll a D6. On a 5+, he may anoint himself with the blood of the fallen and regain one (1) lost wound per game.

Tzeentch skills:

>Mark of Tzeentch: A hero with this skill has a 5+ ward save against magic and shooting attacks. >Changer of ways: Once per game, the hero with this skill can redirect one shooting or magic attack to the nearest friendly model. If the hero with this skill is in combat, he may redirect one attack to any friendly model in the same combat. >Flames of illusion: Flickering flames surround the hero, distorting reality around him. A hero with this skill is at -1 to hit. >Technicolour Dreamcoat: Tzeentch bestows the hero with a cloak of shimmering fire, which burns in ever-changing colours. A hero with this skill inflicts one S2 hit on any enemy model in close combat at the start of each combat phase. >Sorcerer’s apprentice: (Cannot be taken by Sorcerers). Talent for magic runs deep within the followers of Tzeentch and many heralds or champions are both powerful warrior and sorcerer. This skill can be taken only by heroes that cannot already cast spells. A hero with this skill can learn magic from the Tzeentch spell list.

Slaanesh skills: >Hypnotic Aura: Physical perfection is but one of the many aspects of Slaanesh worship and heroes that attain this exudes an aura of beauty and perfection that only the strongest of wills can resist. Any enemy model attacking a hero with this skill must take and pass an initiative test or will be at -1 to hit (i.e. WS4 vs WS4 hits on 5+, not 4+). >Mark of Slaanesh: A hero with this skill is immune to psychology, as a result of deeds committed during worship of Slaanesh. >Taste of paradise: The hero grabs ahold of his enemy’s head, filling their mind with visions of the Prince of Excess’s realm. The first attack in each round of close combat made against a hero with this skill will always strike last, regardless of weapons, skills or initiative. >Violent Lover: Worship of Slaanesh is at best, NSFW. At the beginning of each close combat, a hero with this skill may inflict 1 (one) S4 hit upon himself, or any friendly model in the same close combat. If you choose to do so and the wound is unsaved, all friendly models in the same close combat gain +1S for the rest of the turn. Note: This does not stack and can only be used once per turn. >Beautiful Hysteria: A hero with this skill gains the frenzy special rule and can never lose this frenzy. In addition, any wound inflicted onto an enemy model causes that model to gain frenzy as well.

Chaos Magic:

Secrets of Tzeentch: >One flame, two flame, red flame, blue flame: Range- 12”. Difficulty- 8+  Twin bolts of flame burst from the sorcerer’s hands to strike the nearest enemy model. Range 12”. Each bolt causes D3 S3 hits on the closest enemy model, or split among the two closest enemy models. Note: If this spell is used by a Horror, only one bolt is cast (i.e: Use BS of Horror to inflict D3 S3 hits on the nearest enemy model). >Infernal gateway: Difficulty -7+  The sorcerer forms a gateway to the realm of Tzeentch and uses it to instantly move to any location within 12”. >Glimpse the future: Difficulty- 6+  The sorcerer can reroll any failed dice rolls until next turn. >Pandemonium: Range- 12” Difficulty 9+  When this spell is cast, roll a D3. Place that many ‘Random Happenings’ from the Random Happenings guide. These remain until the start of the sorcerer’s next turn. >Arcane dominion: Difficulty 7+  The sorcerer dispels all active magic spells and effects. Tzeentch is the only true master of magic and will not be stopped by mere amateurs! >All part of the plan: Range- 12”. Difficulty- 8+  The sorcerer automatically casts another spell with a casting value of equal or less to APotP but has to transfer the effect to any friendly model within 12”.

I like that it's more then one warband rolled into one. It may be confusing but it may work.

The biggest problem I see with this WB is that all your heroes start with heavy armour that can not be lost, stolen, or anything else.If you are looking at the game in base rules Heavy Armour is 50 gold and a helm is 10 gold. This is a 60 Gold investment that can not be stolen/lost that I would say adds to it's value bringing this alone to be a 70 gold value (10 gold to never lose it).... wait amend that this is for your magic user who in effect is also getting a free skill from this but I will pass on that for now.All your other heroes are getting Gromril Armour starting that can't be lost a 150 Gold cost + Helm for 160 gold total. Bring this up as it can not be lost to around a 175 gold value (extra 15 gold as Gromril Armour is so much better and has a rarity roll).I would say that the low "can't be lost" cost is quite low but I'm going to let it sit for now.

Your leader is some place between a Merc Captian and a Vampire in value (60-110 gold) based on stats alone. So we will go with 80 Gold as his base value (before any special rules). Add in his armour and your value is around 245 gold.Now you can argue that armour isn't worth it's gold value and I would agree with you but unless your using house rules to lower the cost of armour then it should stay in line with the rules you use.I would say as you have no choice in the Armour maybe lower starting cost to your Harald to 200 gold... ya thats a huge cost for your WB leader but it is about the value of "what" your getting in the rules.

Champions: Your cost is the same as a Merc Champion and yet we have here a -1 BS (can't use missile weapons anyway), +1 Strenght, +1 Toughness, +1 Inititive, +1 Leadership. With nothing else taken into account your Champions need there cost raised 15 gold atleast (maybe 25). So there base cost is now 75 gold (taking into account only +15). Add there Armour they start with again like the Leader your looking 250 gold in value so to keep his cost down and inline the cost is probably closer to 200 gold also (gads your Champions are as good as your Leader as BS is negated and LD is only 1 higher on your leader).

Mage: his stat line is equal to your leaders as well only -1 WS so his base cost would be about what you have now. But as a mage this also adds to his base cost (say +5 gold on the low side) so his cost should be around 80 gold base. Add to this his armour like the others but it's only Heavy Armour then you have a +70 gold to his total cost.As I have lowered the over all cost of the armour above it only makes sense that I do it here as well so lets cut the Armour cost in half here to +35 Gold total. So our mage should cost 115 Gold but as no mage can have armour with out the right skill we effectivly start with said skill as well so the cost is 125 Gold for your mage.

I have not gotten into your other troops just the basics of the heroes and that they are vastly under priced for what they have.I understand you don't want to have to spend all 500 starting gold just to get your heroes (heck you can't even buy them with my formula unarmed) and my math may be "off" but it is much more in line with what you currently have for them.

oh and your leader has a special rule on him for if you follow Khron (sp?). this should be moved to the over all rules as once your leader dies this rule will be gone.

GuestGuest

Subject: Re: Heralds of Chaos warband Thu 13 Sep 2012 - 3:26

Thanks for replying. I knew there was a lot of work to do/ cost issues but I thought I'd post this up here to get some solid advice.1- Should I bump the armour save from 4+ to 5+ and 5+ to 6+ for the heroes? Or keep base cost, but heroes must purchase light/ heavy armour at +25 gc, leaving a helmet as a separate choice?2- I think I will remove all special rules until costs are settled, then try to add things to capture the feel of each god.3- Should I just scrap this, and make the warband to mimic the Spryers of Necro? 110gc base cost + cost of weapons, etc? So 4-5 guys, running around unable to replace casualties easily?

The idea of a chaos champion is obviously attractive, but in my opinion Pervavita is spot on in his costs, hell he is even being very generous! That you get henchmen with super gromril armour for just 45 gcs is a robbery.

As I see it chaos champions, the really big bad dudes, are just too powerful to fit into Mordheim. The BTB crew did an admirable job on the marauders, especially as in a campaign you really get a sense of how one becomes a chaos champion.

Your 3rd option, spyrers, is a very interesting idea. I think there might be some potential in it but I'm not sure chaos is the right place for the idea. There are many other evils out there except the black armoured warriors, maybe you should explore some other options.

I think that warrior of chaos could find his way into mordheim, but not as a whole warband of warriors.Warrior of chaos could be:1) Warband's "big guy" 200gc in exchange for good stats, armour and some special rules (plus gaining exp, which is always great for the big guy)2) Warband leader - I'd say this could be feasible: 150 gc. for arrmor and stats, but in this case the rest of heroes/henchmen would have to be weakened for balancing purposes. Some Ideas: only four heroes, maybe some animositry rules for warband (they are chaos, after all) or some double-edged sword kind of rules like "gods will punish you if you fail". And definitely such warband would have to be expensive as a whole - most chaos themed heroes can't be too weak, so they have to have a proper price. Other option is to give such warband access to "cultists" (equivalent of WH zealots) instead of marauders. After all a warband lead by chaos warrior doesn't have to hail straight from chaos wastes - some local recruits could be fine too.

Maybe something more in the way of a warband made up of a Chaos Warrior who is sent to Mordheim to "prove" his worth to one of the ruinous powers. How about something like this:

Leader: Champion of "Nurgle/Slaneesh/Khorne/Tzeentch"

Basically a chaos warrior, but can choose one chaos gift at creation based on his alignment to either deamon. As he is a champion in the making, maybe he hasn't become a "chosen" yet, he still has to make do with what equipment normal mortals would. He has just begun his journey to becoming a full fledged champion of chaos, and, to reflect this, he would not have access to any deamon armor or such. Mordheim is his proving grounds, and only after he is triumphant will he be bestowed these gifts. He should be able to roll on the Dark Gifts table, just as the Possessed Magister, and thus gain these gifts, though.

His warband should also more reflect the warriors of chaos aspect, rather than the deamons of chaos. Some marauders, some chaos warhounds (as his personal hunting dogs), oh, and a chaos sorcerer that acts as his advisor and contact with the deamon gods. He could also have the choice to bring a Chaos Ogre/Dragon Ogre with him (would cost serious gold!).

Just my thoughts on it all, a few pointers, but I can be way out of my league here

Basically a chaos warrior, but can choose one chaos gift at creation based on his alignment to either deamon. As he is a champion in the making, maybe he hasn't become a "chosen" yet, he still has to make do with what equipment normal mortals would. He has just begun his journey to becoming a full fledged champion of chaos, and, to reflect this, he would not have access to any deamon armor or such. Mordheim is his proving grounds, and only after he is triumphant will he be bestowed these gifts.

Very good expelation. To achieve "championhood" I would propose some set of connected skils like in Aureus's warbandCoterie of Eternal Rapture to show the path he must take. Or mayby some sort of items (like Archaon ). Or some achievments like:

However dragon ogres.chaos ogres are not quite "mordheimy". They are creature more associated with chaos wastes than lands of Empire. The same is with marauders and hounds. How about cultists and warhounds?

However dragon ogres.chaos ogres are not quite "mordheimy". They are creature more associated with chaos wastes than lands of Empire. The same is with marauders and hounds. How about cultists and warhounds?

Well, think about it. The chaos aspiring champion probably comes from the wastes. He has been set to go to Mordheim to prove himself, and would bring with him some of his most trusted men and subjects, which could very well be an Ogre or some other large monster. Also, the chaos hounds I think would fit in there as well.

You could compare the idea to that of the grail knights of bretonnia. They travel far and wide to search for the grail, and bring their best and most trusted companions with them on the journey. Pilgrims, knights, servants, and what have you. This is kinda the same thing, but instead of going on a pilgrimage from Beretonnia, its a pilgrimage undertaken fromt he chaos wastes, with all that entails in terms of available retinues (marauders, ogres, chaos hounds etc.).

I have nothing against marauders and chaos warhounds - aspiring champion really could have such an retinue, why not. Mordheim is pretty far away from chaos wates and concept of pilgrimage is, hmm, problematic. True, knights of grail may travel far and wide even through lands of the imperium, but warband of chaos would be so much more of an unwelcome guest. Though, never mind that, such warband might be a leftover of some great army wandering nearby, or it could be taking part in "the empire in flames" campaign.

I don't like the concept of dragon ogres - from what I recall a dragon ogre is quite willful and powerful creature, rather unlikely to be taking orders from a guy who is not even a warrior of chaos yet. Besides they are described as ancient, slumbering beasts on the verge of extinction, called to battle by chaos gods themselves etc. Dragon ogres, along with chaos giants, dragons and other great beasts, simply don't fit into Mordheim very well. Last, but not least, dragon ogre's stats&rules (to reflect fluff) should give him the ability to pound into ground any other "big guy" - trolls, minotaurs, regular ogres, you name it.

I'd stay with chaos spawn - those guys are much more common and already present in Mordheim.

You could compare the idea to that of the grail knights of bretonnia. They travel far and wide to search for the grail, and bring their best and most trusted companions with them on the journey. Pilgrims, knights, servants, and what have you.

It's not "grail seeking crusade". When knight looks for the grail he goes for his quest alone (or acompanied by a squire or few). Grail knight's don't seek the grail (the have "found" it) and grail pilgrims follow only grail knights because the belive they are saints.

Last edited by catachanfrog on Fri 21 Sep 2012 - 9:55; edited 1 time in total

You could compare the idea to that of the grail knights of bretonnia. They travel far and wide to search for the grail, and bring their best and most trusted companions with them on the journey. Pilgrims, knights, servants, and what have you.

It's not "grail seeking crusade". When knight looks for the grail he goes for his quest alone (or acompanied by a squire or few). Grail knight's don't seek the grail (the have "found" it) and grail pilgrims follow only grail knights because the belive they are saints.

You could compare the idea to that of the grail knights of bretonnia. They travel far and wide to search for the grail, and bring their best and most trusted companions with them on the journey. Pilgrims, knights, servants, and what have you.

It's not "grail seeking crusade". When knight looks for the grail he goes for his quest alone (or acompanied by a squire or few). Grail knight's don't seek the grail (the have "found" it) and grail pilgrims follow only grail knights because the belive they are saints.

Sorry, I'm not a Bretonnian player so I'm not that well informed, nut you got the general idea of it at least