We do not know the status of the rebellion on Urantia, post 1900, SEla_Kelly. That is the issue. The Celestials present the history of Satania's rebellion in the papers up to that year. Currently, the status of the rebellion on Urantia is unknown, and we yet remain quarantined and open circuited. We would need a 6th epochal revelation to establish the facts of rebellion, post 1900.

As I type this post, Caligastia et al. freely roam the planet prosecuting nefarious designs. Both Dali- and Cali-gastia have not been interned. Why? Why are they being allowed to promote sophistries on a quarantined planet ?

SEla_Kelly wrote:

Pardon me fanofVan for interjecting here again without the text, but isn't there a part that mentions how the angels, at the dawn of Lucifer's grasp for power, could simply not fathom how such an exquisite Son of God (Lanonandek) could falter? Brooklyn if this is true, then the initial tide of angelic rebellion would represent a change from a single event. After this, is the civil defence, the learning from the mistakes, and in the creation of new orders of angeln, by the Divine Minister, would possess certain immunities, beyond some education they may receive before advancing the votives of the Infinite Spirit abroad in Nebadon.

So I think you are alluding to, really the sociological dissonance which inhibits mankind's ability to work, to have asmuch opportunity to interharmonize, with angeln. suicide rates might increase because that particular individual has cut off all psychic interactions with the psychic spheres. How do we enhance angelic interaction I am only suggesting first correct the pathology in the human individuals' spiritual receptivity, thusby increasing the potency of the cosmic mind adjutants' phisiological function.

I would say, in the increasing orders of life what may be true about the angeln would have to also apply to the higher nature of mature indviduals. In the same way that the Urantia Papers mention that angeln share the higher range of emotions with mankind. Do you think that as mankind suffers, so too the seraphic planetary government, or summation of all supervising and visiting angeln, might suffer? I am not questioning your motive Brooklyn of course I am simply trying to place your theory into a reasonable mental frame with which I relate.

Angeln have their own dilemma we could hardly fathom. They might not be so affected by the Lucifer rebellion, as they are plagued by the mental stagnance, the monotyny of solidified institutions. We may indeed be the ones causing them to suffer, and I can hope that some presiding angeln will remind me of my failings, with a brutal honesty which is often difficult to bear.

As I understand it, the process of adjudication is not complete. It has begun; but it is not complete (remember, the Ancients of Days work on cosmic time; not on an earthly timeframe of an 80-year human lifespan). You've heard of "innocent until proven guilty" -- if that can be true of even the mortal system of a country on a troubled planet such as ours, we cannot even imagine the degree of mercy and careful adjudication that is being done in this matter.

It's okay because, even though we don't know when, we know for CERTAINTY that justice will prevail and Urantia will be restored.

As I understand it, the process of adjudication is not complete. It has begun; but it is not complete (remember, the Ancients of Days work on cosmic time; not on an earthly timeframe of an 80-year human lifespan). You've heard of "innocent until proven guilty" -- if that can be true of even the mortal system of a country on a troubled planet such as ours, we cannot even imagine the degree of mercy and careful adjudication that is being done in this matter.

It's okay because, even though we don't know when, we know for CERTAINTY that justice will prevail and Urantia will be restored.

I am saying the court is still in session; but Lucifer has admitted to his wrongdoing so there is no question of his guilt. He has also refused to accept forgiveness, if I understand correctly what TUB says about it.

Ah! okay. You threw me for a loop when you said, "You've heard of "innocent until proven guilty""

Also, I don't think Lucifer admitted to any wrongdoing when he believes he is in the right; he actually believes Michael is enslaving humanity and divinity and he is liberating them. But I do agree, adjudication has not completed itself. The case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer pends.

Agon D. Onter wrote:

brooklyn_born wrote:

Are you saying Lucifer has not been proven guilty yet, Agon?

I am saying the court is still in session; but Lucifer has admitted to his wrongdoing so there is no question of his guilt. He has also refused to accept forgiveness, if I understand correctly what TUB says about it.

Pardon me fanofVan for interjecting here again without the text, but isn't there a part that mentions how the angels, at the dawn of Lucifer's grasp for power, could simply not fathom how such an exquisite Son of God (Lanonandek) could falter? Brooklyn if this is true, then the initial tide of angelic rebellion would represent a change from a single event. After this, is the civil defence, the learning from the mistakes, and in the creation of new orders of angeln, by the Divine Minister, would possess certain immunities, beyond some education they may receive before advancing the votives of the Infinite Spirit abroad in Nebadon.

So I think you are alluding to, really the sociological dissonance which inhibits mankind's ability to work, to have asmuch opportunity to interharmonize, with angeln. suicide rates might increase because that particular individual has cut off all psychic interactions with the psychic spheres. How do we enhance angelic interaction I am only suggesting first correct the pathology in the human individuals' spiritual receptivity, thusby increasing the potency of the cosmic mind adjutants' phisiological function.

I would say, in the increasing orders of life what may be true about the angeln would have to also apply to the higher nature of mature indviduals. In the same way that the Urantia Papers mention that angeln share the higher range of emotions with mankind. Do you think that as mankind suffers, so too the seraphic planetary government, or summation of all supervising and visiting angeln, might suffer? I am not questioning your motive Brooklyn of course I am simply trying to place your theory into a reasonable mental frame with which I relate.

Angeln have their own dilemma we could hardly fathom. They might not be so affected by the Lucifer rebellion, as they are plagued by the mental stagnance, the monotyny of solidified institutions. We may indeed be the ones causing them to suffer, and I can hope that some presiding angeln will remind me of my failings, with a brutal honesty which is often difficult to bear.

Yes SEla...the UB says that many angels and others, like the corporeal staff and the Material Sons and Daughters, followed their leadership into rebellion by being loyal. And by being so confused by no experience with any disloyalty of their leadership, especially a being so high and so brilliant as Lucifer and his assistance Satan. And the rebel leaders were allowed sufficient rope to hang themselves by the patient response of Gabriel and Michael to allow full self expression and free will before speaking up and speaking against the rebellion...at which time most rebels within the ranks of those who followed their leaders repented and accepted the mercy and recognized the reality of the sedition and treason of their former leaders.

I agree with you that upon such a realignment of order and faced with the outcome and the facts of Nebadon's response, it would be very unlikely any other beings would be so foolish as to join the rebellion AFTER its containment, confinement, and conclusion. We are told clearly that there are NO rebel angels or midwayers on Urantia and that all who rebel either are confined or would be immediately so confined - the season of patience has long since passed.

As to why Caligastia is allowed to roam upon our world, I cannot say for sure....but I wonder if it is to help illustrate the fact of how impotent and temporal are the efforts to promote unreality and false liberty and to illustrate this to all the universe of Nebadon and beyond and to demonstrate how the universal forces of love and mercy will always win out and prevail and eventually overcome ALL evil and sin and iniquity at all levels where free will might result in such outcomes. An illustration of Divine love, patience, mercy, hope, and the relentless and inevitable good that will always come...even from error and impatience and immaturity....the inherent potentials of free will creatures in a universe of inviolate free will.

53:4.2 (604.4) Self-assertion was the battle cry of the Lucifer rebellion. One of his chief arguments was that, if self-government was good and right for the Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence. He was bold and persistent in the advocacy of the “equality of mind” and “the brotherhood of intelligence.” He maintained that all government should be limited to the local planets and their voluntary confederation into the local systems. All other supervision he disallowed. He promised the Planetary Princes that they should rule the worlds as supreme executives. He denounced the location of legislative activities on the constellation headquarters and the conduct of judicial affairs on the universe capital. He contended that all these functions of government should be concentrated on the system capitals and proceeded to set up his own legislative assembly and organized his own tribunals under the jurisdiction of Satan. And he directed that the princes on the apostate worlds do the same.

53:4.3 (604.5) The entire administrative cabinet of Lucifer went over in a body and were sworn in publicly as the officers of the administration of the new head of “the liberated worlds and systems.”

53:4.7 (605.4) Lucifer was permitted fully to establish and thoroughly to organize his rebel government before Gabriel made any effort to contest the right of secession or to counterwork the rebel propaganda. But the Constellation Fathers immediately confined the action of these disloyal personalities to the system of Satania. Nevertheless, this period of delay was a time of great trial and testing to the loyal beings of all Satania. All was chaotic for a few years, and there was great confusion on the mansion worlds.

53:6.2 (606.5) At the outbreak of rebellion on Jerusem the head of the seraphic hosts joined the Lucifer cause. This no doubt explains why such a large number of the fourth order, the system administrator seraphim, went astray. The seraphic leader was spiritually blinded by the brilliant personality of Lucifer; his charming ways fascinated the lower orders of celestial beings. They simply could not comprehend that it was possible for such a dazzling personality to go wrong.

Me here: We are told that 37 Planetary Princes followed Lucifer into rebellion but not one world has been lost since those initial trying days and very first two years when there was no opposition to the rebellion. Michael's seventh and final bestowal as a mortal of the realm on the unlikely world known as Urantia ENDED the rebellion and any likelihood that any other being would ever be tempted or foolish enough or have cause to personally join such an absolute and utter failure! Despite BB's "suspicions" otherwise. That season has come and gone.

53:7.15 (609.3) Thus were these archrebels allowed to roam the entire system to seek further penetration for their doctrines of discontent and self-assertion. But in almost two hundred thousand Urantia years they have been unable to deceive another world. No Satania worlds have been lost since the fall of the thirty-seven, not even those younger worlds peopled since that day of rebellion.

53:8.2 (609.5) Formerly, when the Planetary Princes, the “Sons of God,” were periodically assembled, “Satan came also,” claiming that he represented all of the isolated worlds of the fallen Planetary Princes. But he has not been accorded such liberty on Jerusem since Michael’s terminal bestowal. Subsequent to their effort to corrupt Michael when in the bestowal flesh, all sympathy for Lucifer and Satan has perished throughout all Satania, that is, outside the isolated worlds of sin.

53:8.3 (609.6) The bestowal of Michael terminated the Lucifer rebellion in all Satania aside from the planets of the apostate Planetary Princes. And this was the significance of Jesus’ personal experience, just before his death in the flesh, when he one day exclaimed to his disciples, “And I beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven.” He had come with Lucifer to Urantia for the last crucial struggle.

53:8.4 (609.7) The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

53:8.7 (610.3) Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.

53:9.8 (611.7) But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”

As long as there are rebels roaming the system, there won't be adjudication.

I think there is a major problem with that statement. It has been revealed that the arch-rebels have been interned and adjudication has already begun. I interpret the narrators implying that is quite sufficient to essentially terminate the reasonable possibility of any normal minded personality from being attracted and deceived by the originators of the rebellion. The number of self-deceived new adherents to rebellion as an after effect will most certainly not increase with time. We can rest easy and concentrate our energies on truth, beauty and goodness.

As long as there are rebels roaming the system, there won't be adjudication.

I think there is a major problem with that statement. It has been revealed that the arch-rebels have been interned and adjudication has already begun. I interpret the narrators implying that is quite sufficient to essentially terminate the reasonable possibility of any normal minded personality from being attracted and deceived by the originators of the rebellion. The number of self-deceived new adherents to rebellion as an after effect will most certainly not increase with time. We can rest easy and concentrate our energies on truth, beauty and goodness.

As long as there are rebels roaming the system, there won't be adjudication.

I think there is a major problem with that statement. It has been revealed that the arch-rebels have been interned and adjudication has already begun. I interpret the narrators implying that is quite sufficient to essentially terminate the reasonable possibility of any normal minded personality from being attracted and deceived by the originators of the rebellion. The number of self-deceived new adherents to rebellion as an after effect will most certainly not increase with time. We can rest easy and concentrate our energies on truth, beauty and goodness.

Do they "roam the System"? (Your claim) No rebels "roam the System" - text please. Do you fear rebels? Or Cali/Dali? Do they determine either your choices or your outcomes? Are they in charge of your reality? Do you believe they are in charge of Urantia? Do you fear for the future of our world? Is your view of life, your future, our world, its future, and the Revelation itself determined by these anxieties and fears you "share" here so "generously"??

Do you recall the words of the Master about such anxieties and fears? As we are gathered here to study the UB and especially the teachings of our Lord, I wonder why it is so important to you to express fears that are so unfounded according to both the Revelation and the words of the Son of God? Jesus said "Fear Not!" And the Revelation says anxiety must be abandoned.

Yet here you are time after time...same old doubts, suspicions, worries, claims, assertions, and perspective of anxiousness and disbelief in the teachings. It is my hope you will come to receive the assurance of faith and truth to ease such an obvious burden. Perhaps some day you will "lighten up" by such assurance within.

After much thought, and considering the admonishment of the moderator, I decided we could put behind us the past and move on in our study, personal and collective, of TUB on this board. Unfortunately, here we go again, making personal, the discussion.

Why continue resorting to this tactic? It is an adhominem attack on me. You do not know me in real life. You do not know my faith. You know NOTHING of a sort except some doctrinal concepts I published online. Why are you casting moral judgment on me?

Do I have to flag the thread once again and keep nagging the moderators? This is getting taxing on me and I am sure on the administration.

fanofVan wrote:

Yet here you are time after time...same old doubts, suspicions, worries... and perspective of anxiousness and disbelief in the teachings. It is my hope you will come to receive the assurance of faith and truth to ease such an obvious burden. Perhaps some day you will "lighten up" by such assurance within.

After much thought, and considering the admonishment of the moderator, I decided we could put behind us the past and move on in our study, personal and collective, of TUB on this board. Unfortunately, here we go again, making personal, the discussion.

Why continue resorting to this tactic? It is an adhominem attack on me. You do not know me in real life. You do not know my faith. You know NOTHING of a sort except some doctrinal concepts I published online. Why are you casting moral judgment on me?

Do I have to flag the thread once again and keep nagging the moderators? This is getting taxing on me and I am sure on the administration.

fanofVan wrote:

Yet here you are time after time...same old doubts, suspicions, worries... and perspective of anxiousness and disbelief in the teachings. It is my hope you will come to receive the assurance of faith and truth to ease such an obvious burden. Perhaps some day you will "lighten up" by such assurance within.

My asking you questions about your expressions of doubt and anxiety are an adhominem attack? I too look forward to the study of the UB and its many assurances related to the rebellion, its end, its status, and our personal and planetary safety. You appear to have a very different opinion about those issues. You are apparently very, very, very concerned about the "status" of the rebellion and claim it to be "unknown" and that Cali/Dali "freely roam" "prosecuting nefarious designs" and further that there are "rebels roaming the systerm" and you claim that more and more celestials continue to join in the rebellion (even this past century - would those be the ones "roaming the system"?) and you obviously doubt the actual certainty of any verdict to come misunderstanding the obvious sentence structure of the text wherein only the method of anouncement is "anticipated" (a word whose definition you apparently find ill defined and indicative of doubt and uncertainty - not true but your opinion nonetheless) as pointed out and explained with lots of supporting text - all of which has, so far, been ignored by you.

Now I ask you questions about your beliefs and am accused of yet another vicious attack. Again, I would remind you we are here to study the UB...not your opinions and claims and fears and doubts which contradict the UB. I am reminded of the quote about the amount of defense of any proposition being the inverse of its truth content. I have made no "moral judgements" of you or about you....I don't know you and I don't make moral judgements or measure the spirituality of others (although there are such that do here among us). I read opinions and offer opinions and compare the text of the UB to all opinions, those of others and myself.

You offer many opinions for consideration here. Thank you. Still wishing you the assurance of our safety and destiny, the very purpose of the Revelation.

The questions I posed are not accusations but a sincere effort to understand the nature and purpose of this topic and your beliefs and opinions regarding the topic - your topic and your claims. Again let me ask:

"Do you fear rebels? Or Cali/Dali? Do they determine either your choices or your outcomes? Are they in charge of your reality? Do you believe they are in charge of Urantia? Do you fear for the future of our world? Is your view of life, your future, our world, its future, and the Revelation itself determined by these anxieties and fears you "share" here so "generously"??"

It is your choice whether to nag the moderators and your discernment that decides when that is justified....not mine.

I am confused...so then are there or are there not rebel celestials, many of whom have joined the rebellion in the past century, roaming the system??

The above appears to be quite the equivocation and hair splitting walk back. Perhaps I misunderstand? Are you claiming that all the celestials who joined the rebellion in the last century only roam around Urantia? Sorry....I am not understanding your claim or its many twists and turns.

Yes, you misunderstand. My position on this subject remains unchanged and is fairly consistent throughout pass and present discussions. I am however amenable when confronted with compelling evidence. Thus far, however, no such evidence to the contrary has been presented to me.

The fact is, Dali- and Cali-gastia continue to roam the system unfettered. They are on our planet seeking to prosecute their nefarious designs. We know Cali-gastia for 1900 years promoted rebel propaganda; he sought to convince men and angels to side with the rebellion.

Is it possible a new generation of rebels has been created? I believe so. I have presented this revelation many times in the past. Here it is again:

53:9.5 (611.4) "... And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged."

We are in 2018. I have asked this question before ---for the past 118 years can one guarantee the status remains unchanged? Absolutely not. No one can claim it as the revelators themselves don't. And why would revelators put in the qualifier, "for nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged"? Why didn't they just say the status will remain unchanged? Are they hinting something to us?

fanofVan wrote:

brooklyn_born wrote:

Cali- and Dali-gastia roam the system, not the entire system; the archrebels freely roam Urantia, fully cloaked through the spiritual circuits of the planet.

I am confused...so then are there or are there not rebel celestials, many of whom have joined the rebellion in the past century, roaming the system??

The above appears to be quite the equivocation and hair splitting walk back. Perhaps I misunderstand? Are you claiming that all the celestials who joined the rebellion in the last century only roam around Urantia? Sorry....I am not understanding your claim or its many twists and turns.