Yet most of those users have no idea of why they are updating apart from it is available and it pops up and tells them it is available.
If they had to go find a custom ROM and flash it, they would not.

Ah, I missed your initial point. Sure, it's only because it comes to them. If users had to go to a website to get the update and then everything was automatic you'd still see huge drop in updates.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

I don't know for certain, but it appears to based on comments I've seen.

Look, this isn't rocket science and though its technically computer science we're only talking about simple logistics here. You know damn well Siri isn't just some OS integration in iOS 5.0 but an extensive backend that couldn't support 150 million iOS-based devices if all iPads, 3rd gen iPod Touches and iPhones all were able to use Siri — released as a Beta and rumoured to have the largest team at Apple working on it — out of the gate. We also know the first weekend, which was just 4 million units though I assume only about half were from the US, was already causing users grief as Siri had issues contacting the servers on many occasion.

You're PoV on this is like saying that a plane is flight ready and fueled up so it take off regardless of any other planes on the runway or in it's flight path. Can you see how there is a bigger picture to consider?

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Look, this isn't rocket science and though its technically computer science we're only talking about simple logistics here. You know damn well Siri isn't just some OS integration in iOS 5.0 but an extensive backend that couldn't support 150 million iOS-based devices if all iPads, 3rd gen iPod Touches and iPhones all were able to use Siri — released as a Beta and rumoured to have the largest team at Apple working on it — out of the gate. We also know the first weekend, which was just 4 million units though I assume only about half were from the US, was already causing users grief as Siri had issues contacting the servers on many occasion.

I didn't say they didn't have a good and valid reason not to offer it for older iPhone4's. I only said it wasn't a limitation of the hardware. You said it was hardware related and it wasn't possible. Smply trying to clarify, which you've done apparently mentioning marketing and infrastructure limits in a followup (which I tend to agree with by the way), rather than the older hardware not being capable.

I like the graph the most -- I figured that the Android 'world domination' was based on the crappy, outdated junk phones that that the carriers get to give away. Over 95% of the Android phones are below OS version 3.0. So all this talk about how many Android phones are being activated, doesn't even compare with the iPhone. Its just people trading their plain phones for smartphones, and then being stuck with slow nasty Android phone for 2 years --- really sad!

I didn't say they didn't have a good and valid reason not to offer it for older iPhone4's. I only said it wasn't a limitation of the hardware. You said it was hardware related and it wasn't possible. simply trying to clarify, which you've done apparently mentioning marketing and infrastructure limits (which I tend to agree with by the way).

I mentioned no marketing. I did mention infrastructure if you consider the back end Siri lives and uses to run the licensed Nuance speech-to-text software, the Siri natural language comprehension, and whatever else the servers do. Are you seriously still arguing that the server farms aren't hardware.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

I mentioned no marketing. I did mention infrastructure if you consider the back end Siri lives and uses to run the licensed Nuance speech-to-text software, the Siri natural language comprehension, and whatever else the servers do. Are you seriously still arguing that the server farms aren't hardware.

I've not even mentioned server farms. You're trying to deflect again. Are you claiming the iPhone4 hardware itself is not capable of running Siri or not? don't beat around the bush and talk back-end this or server that instead of answering the actual question posed. Geez, you have a big bag of tricks to use to avoid things you don't want to admit.

I've not even mentioned server farms. You're trying to deflect again. Are you claiming the iPhone4 hardware itself is not capable of running Siri or not?

You said, and I quote, "...Siri was marketing not inability of the hardware to support it…" I've shown that Siri is not made of only the handset HW, that most of it server-side, that server farms are made up of HW, and that Siri already suffered when only a fraction of a percent of the iOS 5.0 capable devices were utilizing it.

PS: To address your other comment, "Samsung is making a similar marketing decision. Since they didn't design the OS (Android 4.x) they don't have the option of allowing some features while denying others as Apple does." Samsung does because Android is OPEN¡ But seriously, The Verge has noted that ICS can be installed, that it's an issue of getting Samsung's included crapware that is the issue not to mention their decision to drop support as soon the device is in the customer's hand because they already have you money.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

it's funny.. if Apples does it (with Siri), it's ok since they are just trying to sell more iPhone 4S. If anyone else does it, it's dumb fragmentation.. LOL

Siri != iOS 5.

iOS 5 added many many new features over iOS 4 of which Siri was just one, albeit a very "cool" and marketable one.

The iPhone 4 and 3GS still got pretty much all of the rest of the new features, the most significant ones for me being iMessage and iCloud syncing.

Whether the omission of Siri from older devices was purely down to marketing or not is irrelevant - what Samsung have announced is the equivalent of Apple saying that the iPhone 4/3GS can't/won't run Siri so lets just not give those devices iOS 5 at all.

If I'd bought an expensive supposedly top end phone less than a year ago that was then declared incompatible with the very next major OS release I would be mighty pissed right now. Luckily I got an iPhone 4 which has already taken the iOS 4 to iOS 5 upgrade with zero issues and assuming I don't upgrade to the iPhone 5(?) when that comes out next year I still fully expect to be able to run iOS 6 on it even if I don't get all of the brand new toys.

You said, and I quote, "...Siri was marketing not inability of the hardware to support it…" I've shown that Siri is not made of only the handset HW, that most of it server-side, that server farms are made up of HW, and that Siri already suffered when only a fraction of a percent of the iOS 5.0 capable devices were utilizing it.

And still avoiding an answer as to whether Apple made a choice not to offer Siri or the older iPhone hardware wouldn't support it. It's dishonest of you to try and claim I stated as a fact what you quoted rather than leaving the entire sentence as it originally was showing I asked a question instead, and inviting clarification. You replied that it was proven that Siri hardware wasn't capable. Apparently you were never answering my question to begin with then, inserting a strawman instead?

Your guesses on whether Apple's servers could support the extra server load and that was the reason it wasn't offered is just that: A guess, unless you have an official Apple statement to that affect. The question I originally posed, whether the iPhone 4 was capable is a fairly simple yes or no.

And still avoiding an answer as to whether Apple made a choice not to offer Siri or the older iPhone hardware wouldn't support it. It's dishonest of you to try and claim I stated as a fact what you quoted rather than leaving the entire sentence as it originally was showing I asked a question instead, and inviting clarification. You replied that it was proven that Siri hardware wasn't capable. Apparently you were never answering my question to begin with then, inserting a strawman instead?

Your guesses on whether Apple's servers could support the extra server load and that was the reason it wasn't offered is just that: A guess, unless you have an official Apple statement to that affect. The question I originally posed, whether the iPhone 4 was capable is a fairly simple yes or no.

Your comment is a strawman and purposely misleading and disingenuous because you fail to even consider how Siri works. That may fool some of the people but most here know your game and are savvy about technology.

You made a very clear statement that Apple's decision had nothing to do with any HW. If you were being honest you would have qualified your comment to say that you are well aware that Siri's backend is very limited at this point and that you understand that if you have to include a new feature on a small scale that using the newest device makes the most sense for many reasons. You did none of that. All you did was claim that Apple are big liers and theives who are just like Samsung because an already stressed server backend for one feature is the same as not giving users of a currently selling device no new updates because they can't also include their crapware with it.

Note that I've never stated it was a decision, have noted that Siri is running on older devices, and have made comments about Apple potentially adding Siri to older devices in the future as the data mining and pulling from Google would behoove them.

PS: It's one thing to be a narrow minded shill that chooses to see shit as gold but it's another to make shit up. I hope you can be better than that in the future.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Is this the same hardware that is thrown about by Android devotees as superior to anything else?

Nope. You seem to be confused.

The newest bestest hardware in smartphones is the Samsung Galaxy Nexus. The Samsung Galaxy SII is also a very good phone, with excellent reviews. This article is about an older phone that nobody would throw about or claim to be SOTA.

All those high-end Android phones seem to blur together. It is easer to just know that Apple makes one phone only.

In the same vein, Apple apparently "chose" not to offer the most compelling iOS5 feature to the iPhone4 feature list: Siri

Granted it's not denying most other updated features and added benefits of the latest OS, but not offering the option of Siri was marketing not inability of the hardware to support it as it's been unofficially demonstrated on the older platform hasn't it?

Samsung is making a similar marketing decision. Since they didn't design the OS (Android 4.x) they don't have the option of allowing some features while denying others as Apple does. It's likely either/or. In that regard, Apple obviously is at an advantage designing for a single general set of hardware and software fully controlled by them.

Considering that Siri is still in Beta, what makes you so sure that Apple won't make it available to at leasy the iP4 and iPad2?

Edit -> oops! That's what i get for not reading the entire thread first... It looks like, from the posts above this one, that this thought has been debated already. Conclusion is still up in the air.

PS? ....Slaaaapy....Slaaaaaapy.... come out to plaaaay......!!!

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member

Considering that Siri is still in Beta, what makes you so sure that Apple won't make it available to at leasy the iP4 and iPad2?

They are moving faster than I expected with feature updates to Siri with the new shopping data via Wolfram-Alpha. Maybe that's all from WA without any Siri change, but either way it's something that could seriously hurt Google search in the future. I wouldn't expect them to simply flip a switch but if they can get far enough ahead in their infrastructure (i.e.: HW) with their iPhone 4S usage with Siri (and projected iPad 3 usage) maybe iOS 6.0 will add it to the iPhone 4 and 4th generation iPod Touch.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

In the same vein, Apple apparently "chose" not to offer the most compelling iOS5 feature to the iPhone4 feature list: Siri

Granted it's not denying most other updated features and added benefits of the latest OS, but not offering the option of Siri was marketing not inability of the hardware to support it as it's been unofficially demonstrated on the older platform hasn't it?

Samsung is making a similar marketing decision. Since they didn't design the OS (Android 4.x) they don't have the option of allowing some features while denying others as Apple does. It's likely either/or. In that regard, Apple obviously is at an advantage designing for a single general set of hardware and software fully controlled by them.

Siri is in Beta though. Apparently, it has enough server issues even with the install base of the 4S so kinda goes with my point that Apple won't compromise the user experience.

But Siri is a feature, not an update. I know it's unfair, because we're talking fully vertical integration (Apple) against three companies (carrier, Google, OEM) working together but I wouldn't expect these issues on WP7.

In the same vein, Apple apparently "chose" not to offer the most compelling iOS5 feature to the iPhone4 feature list: Siri

Granted it's not denying most other updated features and added benefits of the latest OS, but not offering the option of Siri was marketing not inability of the hardware to support it as it's been unofficially demonstrated on the older platform hasn't it?

Samsung is making a similar marketing decision. Since they didn't design the OS (Android 4.x) they don't have the option of allowing some features while denying others as Apple does. It's likely either/or. In that regard, Apple obviously is at an advantage designing for a single general set of hardware and software fully controlled by them.

The similarity may just be superficial. As others have pointed out, we know that just the 4S owners stretched the server side of Siri to its limits. So, it would be very reasonable for Apple to limit the distribution, and restricting it to the 4S, initially at least, would seem a sensible marketing and technical compromise. In the wider picture, Apple does not have a history of denying new features to older hardware.

Whether the Samsung decision was a technical limitation of the phone hardware (in which case rather embarrassing), a marketing ploy and/or just a poor decision is hard to know.

Your comment is a strawman and purposely misleading and disingenuous because you fail to even consider how Siri works. That may fool some of the people but most here know your game and are savvy about technology.

You made a very clear statement that Apple's decision had nothing to do with any HW.

. . . with any iPhone4 hardware.
Just another attempt at deflection and dishonesty from you? I generally respect you, but there's times that your own pride gets in the way. At no time did I ever dismiss possible stress on the servers, in fact even stating that I agreed with you in your very next post when you brought it up.
Quote: "Smply trying to clarify, which you've done apparently mentioning marketing and infrastructure limits in a followup (which I tend to agree with by the way), rather than the older hardware not being capable." Clearly a reference to iPhone4 hardware as I'm sure you knew as I agreed with your assessment of possible server (hardware) and back-end limitations.

For the record, my very simple and straightforward original comment:
"Granted it's not denying most other updated features and added benefits of the latest OS, but not offering the option of Siri was marketing not inability of the hardware to support it as it's been unofficially demonstrated on the older platform hasn't it?"

The similarity may just be superficial. As others have pointed out, we know that just the 4S owners stretched the server side of Siri to its limits. So, it would be very reasonable for Apple to limit the distribution, and restricting it to the 4S, initially at least, would seem a sensible marketing and technical compromise. In the wider picture, Apple does not have a history of denying new features to older hardware.

Whether the Samsung decision was a technical limitation of the phone hardware (in which case rather embarrassing), a marketing ploy and/or just a poor decision is hard to know.

Absolutely agree. I don't think Apple's decision (yes they made a choice) is on the same level with Samsung's. Sammy has made the choice not to offer any of Android 4.s's upgrades and the reason is questionable, more more so than Apple's. I pointed out too that Samsung doesn't have the same flexibilty to pick and choose what features of ICS to offer. They either had to dump Touchwiz in large part, or offer ICS as is.

There's the undeniable proof that you dismissed the possibility that there the server-side HW was a reason for its exclusion from other devices.

Quote: " (you) mentioning marketing and infrastructure limits in a followup (which I tend to agree with by the way)".
Undeniable proof that I acknowledged it was a possible issue. All this because you wanted to avoid just saying "yes the iPhone 4 hardware will support Siri."

Absolutely agree. I don't think Apple's decision (yes they made a choice) is on the same level with Samsung's. Sammy has made the choice not to offer any of Android 4.s's upgrades and the reason is questionable, more more so than Apple's. I pointed out too that Samsung doesn't have the same flexibilty to pick and choose what features of ICS to offer. They either had to dump Touchwiz in large part, or offer ICS as is.

I've not been following this very closely - I know they said that. So does the Galaxy S2 with ICS use Touchwiz?

Quote: " (you) mentioning marketing and infrastructure limits in a followup (which I tend to agree with by the way)".
Undeniable proof that I acknowledged it was a possible issue. All this because you wanted to avoid just saying "yes the iPhone 4 hardware will support Siri."

Me stating that again doesn't change that you claim it's was all marketing and nothing to do with HW. You're back peddling. Just admit you A) were just being a troll with your obviously false comment, or B) had a brain fart (again) for which you are oow embarrassed for not recognizing Siri is more than the handset HW.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Me stating that again doesn't change that you claim it's was all marketing and nothing to do with HW. You're back peddling. Just admit you A) were just being a troll with your obviously false comment, or B) had a brain fart (again) for which you are oow embarrassed for not recognizing Siri is more than the handset HW.

Just admit I never said that was the only reason. You just can't let it go, and still being dishonest. Post what you will Solipsism. Nothing more to be gained by pointing out your picking and choosing of statements you decide to acknowledge in an attempt to somehow avoid answering a simple query and throw the blame back this way. It's now reached the point of silly and petty, undeserving of any further time spent on replying to your agenda.

Fortunately anyone who is willing to spend 10 min reading and 10 min on their computer will most likely be able to flash a custom ROM. Heck, there are no tablets for sale yet that come with ICS yet it's been shown running on a few in the wild already!

Not a nice try. Its true. Pick up a 3gs and compare to a 4 or 4s. Lots missing. Sure the 3gs is older but this article does fail to mention the difference. Dude, don't get the wrong idea. I've been a Mac head since before the Mac. But saying the 3GS runs iOS5, is a bit misleading.

The Samsung Galaxy S smartphone and 7-inch Galaxy Tab will not receive the latest version of Android, because Samsung has said its custom TouchWiz user interface, not Google's operating system, is too taxing on the hardware.

Android device makers like Samsung and others apply their own user interface elements to Google's free, open-source Android operating system on handsets, tablets and other devices to differentiate themselves from the large number of Android products on the market. On Samsung's devices, this "experience enhancing" software is called TouchWiz.

But it's the addition of TouchWiz to Android that will keep popular devices like the Samsung Galaxy S from running Android 4.0 "Ice Cream Sandwich," according to The Verge. Though the Galaxy S has a speedy 1GHz Hummingbird processor and enough memory for ICS, Samsung has revealed the software update won't be coming to that device, which sold more than 10 million units last year.

But the Galaxy S sports the same internal hardware as Google's Nexus S smartphone, and Nexus S owners can already obtain Android 4.0 through an over-the-air update.

"Samsung addresses that inconsistency by again pointing to the differing software provision; the Nexus S only has to run the basic Android OS, whereas the Galaxy S has to deliver TouchWiz, carrier services, video calling software, and, in some markets, mobile TV," wrote Vlad Savov.

That stands in contrast to Apple, which this year kept around its iPhone 3GS, first released in 2009, with a free update to iOS 5. Meanwhile, Android phones often ship with an outdated version of Google's mobile operating system, and the systems are also rarely updated, even during the original contract term of the handset.

Blogger Michael Degusta revealed in October that 45 percent of Google's installed base of active Android users were stuck using software released in the middle of 2010. That's because handset makers like Samsung, HTC, Motorola and others do not make those updates available to phones, and users cannot circumvent their inaction without "rooting" their handset.

Samsung's explanation for why Galaxy S and 7-inch Galaxy Tab users won't get ICS comes soon after Motorola and Sony Ericsson also told customers they would not be able to update to Android 4.0.

Wow. I don't even know where to start, so I guess I'll try from the top.

The Galaxy S series and the 7 inch galaxy tab can still run ICS. It is not too taxing on the hardware. That's just wrong. The only reason Samsung won't update them to ICS, is because of the size of the ROM. It has already been proven that as long as the CPU is at least 1ghz (look at the Nexus S), it can run ICS like a breeze. Because of the ROM limitation, they cannot put the core Android OS along with Touchwiz in there.

What does this mean? AOSP Android and CM9 android options will be available to both of them. Yes, the entire series will run ICS. I myself have been able to run ICS on a 2 year old Samsung Captivate without any lag or issue.

The only issue here is the size of Touchwiz. It has nothing to do with how fast the device is.

"Blogger Michael Degusta revealed in October that 45 percent of Google's installed base of active Android users were stuck using software released in the middle of 2010."GINGERBREAD LAUNCHED DECEMBER 16th 2010. It is still a fully functional OS and has no incompatibility issues with any application.

"Meanwhile, Android phones often ship with an outdated version of Google's mobile operating system, and the systems are also rarely updated, even during the original contract term of the handset."
So gingerbread is outdated now? Hah. So is any non iphone 4S software outdated too? I mean, it doesn't have Siri. Same idiotic concept.

Samsung's explanation for why Galaxy S and 7-inch Galaxy Tab users won't get ICS comes soon after Motorola and Sony Ericsson also told customers they would not be able to update to Android 4.0
Wait, what? the Active, Arc, Mini, Mini Pro, Neo, Play and Xperia Pro handsets from Sony are getting official ICS. Motorola is also releasing ICS for all dual core devices.

Why are there posts like these anyway? Is this AndroidInsider?

I love correcting them though. Makes me laugh every time at how wrong they are.

Saying the 3GS runs iOS5 is something of joke. Most of the cool newness in iOS5 is lost on the 3GS. Yes, its running the latest and greatest but not in a feature for feature contest. Just saying.

I can assume you don't have one. I do. I am running 5.0 on my 3GS and I love it. Siri would be cool, but the new features the update added with 4.0 and this one kept me from needing to buy an new phone. This is why Googles numbers are higher too. Users or forced to upgrade to get the newest software for their phones

I can assume you don't have one. I do. I am running 5.0 on my 3GS and I love it. Siri would be cool, but the new features the update added with 4.0 and this one kept me from needing to buy an new phone. This is why Googles numbers are higher too. Users or forced to upgrade to get the newest software for their phones

And Apple users are forced to upgrade to get the newest software on their phones too.

Apple knows perfectly well that Siri runs great on the 3GS/4, but they needed to give you a reason to buy a new device. So they held it back.

Android user base is heading towards saturation with the current rate of activation of about 700K devices per day. This is happening with Version 2.x of the operating system. ICS - Android 4.0 - is going to find itself locked out of a saturated market and the user experience gap between Android 2.x and Windows Mobile 7.5 or Apple IOS will continue to grow. Add malware and a market without safeguards and it makes you wonder if Android is working hard to screw itself over.

Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof