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nothing else can justify the subscription cost after gw2 it is extramly difficult to see any reason for a subscription

yeh some games out there will do things a little bit better but taken as a complete game vs a complete game

other than a scam for cash why do they have a sub

i personaly wont buy another mmo with a sub unless i seriously see somthing worth my subscription money and as gw2 in my opinion is in the top 1-3 mmos ever , it is going to be somthing really really special for me to purchase and pay a sub

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Originally posted by freston

Biased poll. i wonder what the results would be if the question had been "do you think Gw2 has significantly altered the genre ", without all the hyperbole. Of all the points the op mentions im only going to focus on combat

Combat: moving around and being able to detect aoe effects, dynamic dodging, movement based attack skills that take you into and out of range while pushing a button....thats all "oh really" to you?. I tried Mop after and i felt as if i was fighting on a wheelchair.

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nothing else can justify the subscription cost after gw2 it is extramly difficult to see any reason for a subscription

yeh some games out there will do things a little bit better but taken as a complete game vs a complete game

other than a scam for cash why do they have a sub

i personaly wont buy another mmo with a sub unless i seriously see somthing worth my subscription money and as gw2 in my opinion is in the top 1-3 mmos ever , it is going to be somthing really really special for me to purchase and pay a sub

so has gw2 been a revolution to me yes

Going by a recent poll on this site most prefer a subcription, B2P has hardly killed P2P like some are claiming.

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nothing else can justify the subscription cost after gw2 it is extramly difficult to see any reason for a subscription

yeh some games out there will do things a little bit better but taken as a complete game vs a complete game

other than a scam for cash why do they have a sub

i personaly wont buy another mmo with a sub unless i seriously see somthing worth my subscription money and as gw2 in my opinion is in the top 1-3 mmos ever , it is going to be somthing really really special for me to purchase and pay a sub

so has gw2 been a revolution to me yes

Going by a recent poll on this site most prefer a subcription, B2P has hardly killed P2P like some are claiming.

Lol. I'd be surprised if the people on this site didn't want to pay a subscription. The people on this site represent a very small minority of the people who play MMOs. Taking the collective opinions of the people on this site and passing them off as some sort of measurement for MMO players as a whole is probably one of the most unintelligent things that can be done.

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nothing else can justify the subscription cost after gw2 it is extramly difficult to see any reason for a subscription

yeh some games out there will do things a little bit better but taken as a complete game vs a complete game

other than a scam for cash why do they have a sub

i personaly wont buy another mmo with a sub unless i seriously see somthing worth my subscription money and as gw2 in my opinion is in the top 1-3 mmos ever , it is going to be somthing really really special for me to purchase and pay a sub

so has gw2 been a revolution to me yes

Going by a recent poll on this site most prefer a subcription, B2P has hardly killed P2P like some are claiming.

Actually it shows that the preference for P2P vs B2P / F2P is fairly evenly split, with just a few more % on the side of P2P (currently 53.9%). It also shows that more people are OK with a cash shop in either P2P, B2P, or F2P than completely against it.

You guys act like it was a landslide victory in an election, when really your favorite candidate barely scraped by with the win.

It been so long since something have change the MMO's . We have seen alot of cocie cutter mmo's. And i mean alot.

To me it looks like OP come up with his personal opinion of why the game doesn't catch him, but doesn't actual reflect on what the game does to the genre. Isn't his post actual offtopic to the question he raise?

I asume there is 2 kind of gamers. Casuals and Addicts. its a fact that GW2 is made for casuals.

If it can succesfull be the game for casuals and make money doing that, it is a genre changing game. Because so far most if not all mmo's have either tryed to go for the addicts, or just not been succesfull.

But that doesn't change the fact that addicts will often not like a casual game at all, and do alot to express their dislike and their utter disbelief of why someone is actual liking it. Alot of the regulars on MMORPG will not like GW2 simply because they are gaming addicts, in different states, yes, some even in recovery, but they are defently not casuals.

I play in a small guild with a circle of friends where i am the addict , and the rest is for sure casuals. They have tried more MMO's than i have though, they just don't hang in there with them 3 month after launch, becuase they are NOT addicts, but casuals, that moves on when a game require them to be addicts. What will show if GW2 is a revolutionary game is if this is the game they still play as casuals in a year.

i don't know if they will, but for sure the game looks like it is not forcing them to move on.

...

btw hardcore is a describtion that addicts gives them self, because no one likes to be called an addict.

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Definitely a genre-changer, whether you like it or not. Some things GW2 introduced will have to be taken into account by all serious mmo producers in the future. Besides the game-related features, the fact that it is a fully-fledged mmo which offers a staggering amount of content and polish and yet is subscription-free will definitely change the state of the genre. After GW2 I cannot conceive how anyone would dare to charge a subscription fee for their mmo.

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The poll could have been there without the nitpicking wall-of-text rant towards GW2.

Now this is just a nice strawman trick. You put up a huge 200 line whine with your hurt feelings in it, and then add a poll to show "hey 50% of the people agree with what i said" while the poll question isn't nessesarily connected to your list of (in my opinion) invalid arguments.

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Long time reader on this website, but a starter poster ;) To me many of Guildwars 2 "Revolutionary Gameplay" ideas are kinda sad and nothing new... just reused old ideas under a new shiny name.

Read as: I'm another MMORPG.com whiner who just whine about everything. Please make attention to my whining thread. I missheard and missunderstand everything and now I'm saying something 100% stupid.

Is it worth the 60$ simple answer for me yes because i do enjoy it as a quick pick up n play kinda game and it will always be there years later unless they pull the plug on servers of course lol. If it had a subscription attached to it, i Wouldn't even bother with it tbh. It's good for casual players to come on and get something done for an hour or two almost like a WoW Jr in that aspect.

Exploration is kinda dull and un-rewarding half the time, minus the beautiful views of course and random 1 or 2 chests you find along the way. All the waypoints, hearts, points of interest all marked on your map ruins it. Plus some areas you stumble into while exploring might require a party to kill monster/monsters which is annoying if your solo or no one is around to help.

Exploration is not about walking arround and finding dragon, big golden chests and super-hiper-all-powerfull swords in most obvious places (old remote cave because everyone left most expensive stuff there). There is more than 1-2 random chests. In just one area you can find chests if you notice and solve "jumping puzzle". Sometimes it's quite long. You should see my suprise that I found cave above cave with one small entry point that I noticed just because of lag (i jumped in wrong place and noticed it then). I find exploration really rewarding and interesting.

Structured PvP is nice for an hour or two but then it gets boring. Can't make premade groups which is odd but understandable i guess. Again the accesiblilty is there for casuals to jump in and start playing but thats about it. I don't get an addiction for it like other mmo's PvP systems. *since i waited over an hour to eventually give up waiting for 9 more teams of five to join for it to start i forgot about tournaments being a vaible premade method for sPvP. If u can wait for others to play with you....that is. Maybe my server is dead idk.

But what is your complain ? sPVP is like any other and I enjoy it just the same. I would welcome more modes but that's it.

WvW is zerg here zerg there everywhere a zerg, plus what server has the most people online at the time you decide to go in. Trying to get in solo or with friends is a test of patience and time with the fact that you can't join que as a group so each person gets there own que timer to get in. There is no Estimated Time to show how long till your eligible to zone in.

Yeah because when 3 realms clash with each other everyone stand in queue and kill each other in turns. Then they move to another castle or stay if they won and everything repeat itself. And there is always single individual that will single-handed take down a castle using sword, his mage friend, thief and ofcourse - cute little girl that will pose as healer.

What manga are you reading ? Seriously :| What you see in World vs World is "mob fights". Bunch of brainless people just wanting to hit something. When our guild joined and create some hierarchy (someone barking orders by TS3, groups of mele, range etc, guys provided with money for siege equipment) and attack like you should (mele up front, range in the back etc) we had not problems dealing with anyone in WvsW. This is how it should be. From bunch of idiots some orginized teams rise.

If your server have one you will notice because they will take down one fort after another. Because idiots on the other side rush to kill and forget to defend like they should.

Rewards. Area rewards are horribly stupid, waste all that time trying to complete an area for mediocre items makes it pointless imo. Dungeons drops are nice in the sense no one ever fights about drops, it's all randomly distributed behind the curtains which is very nice. Probably the best part about the game is the distribution of loot. lol

Again, can't say I agree. Just transmutation stones are reward like any other. I can look like I want while having stats that I need. Also you not only have stones and items but also potions or mats for crafting. And it's cost you nothing since it's just for exploring the map and that I enjoy regardles of rewards. Why ? Because ANet know how to make maps. I visit human city just to see bunch of drums :-)

Crafting is nice but lots of stupid clutter to make it look like a vast crafting system but in turn just makes it annoying half the time. Want to craft a pair of boots, wait u 1.need to smelt your copper 2. get some cloth (of course our virtual boots need to be comfy for our long travels, espicially with walking soo slowly everywhere lol) 3. make three parts : sole, padding, exterior of your boots 3. add insignia's for extra stats then viola your 1 pair of boots is finished..... again more stupidity then an actual complex crafting system.

System is fine. I would only ask ANet for one thing. I would love to choose between boots models I already saw. Like they do it in DC Universe Online. Once you aquire some item you can use it shape anytime. One of suggestions I posted.

Dungeons feel unorganized and messy, i hate them with a passion. Tera, Secret World, WoW dungeons feel nice and layed out perfectly from start to finish. On here tho i want to kill myself while im doing a dungeon start to finish, hypothetically of course. (no offense toward suicidal people) Again loot is beautifully handled, most of the time completly useless aswell but thats another story lol.

So... dungeons are bad because they are too hard for you while WoW, TOR, SW and TERA have dungeons that are childs play. Easy mode is not present at this time. Also corridor fighting and holding hands mode are off. Want easy mode ? Learn to play and find some guys to play with.

Only real problem with dungeons I currently have is amount of high HP mobs. They should have complex attack pattern, high damage and less HP.

Story is interesting but the cutscenes ruin it. Boring cutscenes with wallpaper backgrounds ruins the immersion they try so hard to instill within the game. Maybe it's from seeing The Secret World and Swtor cutscenes but is it soo much to ask to see the actual in-game background instead of wallpaper????

It was easy this way. Story is nice (it's nothing special and kind of straight forward but not bad). What I like is branching. Actual changes based on your decisions. Love that. Don't know about SW because this game is just a big pile of crap in my opinion but TOR had very poor and linear story (everything in that game was linear), no branching, stupid and on top of that - stupid and poor ending.

Cinematic dialogues (that were useless except class story) - only advantage of TOR. But at the same time because of them TOR have no real expansions and you can't expect any in near future. One planet for 3-4 lvl after a YEAR does not cut it.

So I will trade walper for more expansions and better game. Sorry.

Combat is sad aswell, nice and simplistic yes. Auto attack and cooldowns is all its about, with the new innovation of moving around!!?!?! to avoid AOE and attacks..... don't think i need to say more lol

Dodge, attack, control - three principles of fighting in GW2. If you know what you are doing then you will see the difference. Only TERA have more interesting combat system since is more dynamic. But as modders shown us, GW2 have also quite dynamic system but placed under retarded controls. Hope they change that in near future.

Money Costs are again a major downfall. Traveling, Repairing, Gathering Tools, Salvage kits. Money sink i understand but in a game where the trading post nets you 1 copper profit for the majority of items is ridiculous and selling to merchants is better then selling on trading post =/ maybe i fail at GW2 economy lessons. Every coin i make is precious for saving up for armor, *cough cough cultural armor and other items i may need only to spend a nice chunk teleporting everywhere. Traveling to meet friends is gonna cost you, even to help someone out in your guild. To check an area with a dungeon to see if anyone is forming pickup groups. Coins Coins and more Coins gone, reminds of Aion and the rezzing fee to get your exp back. Want to cut back on costs don't worry you can spend a nice chunk of time running to said location aka walking.... unless you have a speed boost skill.. then you get actual running lol. Or for those that have a nice chunk of real life money why not spend it on gems to convert into in-game gold!!! All your money issues in-game gone with actual spending of your hard earned cash. Legalized gold selling brought to you by the game that is against gold selling.lol (Protect our accounts from China men, fine but if your buying gold from said china farmers you should have that risk of being hacked etc. instead of not offering it at all they realize that, hey people do actually spend real money for in-game gold, lets benifit from it and make our pockets some extra cash) Hypocrits at the end of the day.

Sorry but level after level I have more money than I had previously. So it's no money sing. Sorry. You just need to manage your expenses. Sorry but in this game you have to make a decissions about what to buy. It's not like TOR where you fast gain huge amount of money and you can farm even more every day so you can buy ANYTHING for MILLIONS.

Long story short. (lol if you watch South Park) I have been playing since beta and there was something in the back of my head bothering me about this game. I just can't get into it like other mmo's, there is no addiction for me wanting to log in on a daily basis. Revolutionary game?? not by a loong shot just another niche game for those WoW stragglers looking for something new or those GW1 cultists waiting for thier long over due next coming of the ages aka GW2. It went with what all the new mmo's do, take a bit of this from here and there and put it all together and bam! "Revolutionary game that will change the genre" Amazing what ads do to mindless sheep, propaganda FTW. Literally sad truth of the world.

**Heads up to all those GuildWars2 "fanboys/girls" No disrespect to you all and your love for the game i didn't mean to attack your precious baby (aka GW2) just my opinions about the game.

Your opinion is yours. But if you post something online then also consider other people thoughts. Just because you are depressed and can't play something or you don't like it - it's not like it's bad or something. Also I'm sorry but NO ONE NEVER said that GW2 will change genre. Even ANet said that it will be just another MMO and it's not even made to be your primary MMO (their words).

GW2 change some aspects of MMO that were retarded, old, useless and stupid. Like party system, loot distribution from mobs, group oriented gameplay and stuff like that. They improved many spects of typical MMO while borowing other good ideas making really really GOOD GAME.

Just wait and see that next MMO in line (created after GW2) will borrow a lot from this game.

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Technically, I think it's an evolution - as in the patching process, the server handling and so forth. All those things are done very well.

It also looks good - and I think some of the main cities are absolutely astounding. I think Divinity's Reach is the most beautiful city I've ever seen in any game. Certainly one of the most impressive things to behold.

In terms of gameplay, I think it's mostly a step back from current MMOs. Everything is streamlined and automated to the point where nothing really seems to matter and you're not challenged. The removal of trinity was a nice idea - but they didn't replace it with anything. They simply removed it and expected miracles from their own ability to design and balance encounters without established roles.

Their approach to "limited loot progression" just makes the whole experience shorter and a lot more superficial. They clearly believed their content would be "fun" enough to sustain perpetual interest, which was a giant and arrogant mistake. No content can ever be perpetually entertaining without mechanics to support it.

Also, this idea of not having a subscription somehow making content better, because it's not designed to "stretch" is another flawed assumption. Quality subscription MMOs are actually obligated to make content EVEN BETTER - because content is designed for a lot of repetition. That's one of the most fundamental flaws in ArenaNet logic.

Games like WoW/EQ2/LotRO and so forth are all obligated to provide a ton of variation and a ton of content, because they know people won't enjoy "grinding" if it's not presented as something else.

The combat is fast and fun, but also excessively repetitive. The arsenal is way too limited - and it's a mistake to give people access to the vast majority of toys when they're level 30. It makes the remaining 50 levels less and less interesting. Traits don't cut it, no.

Probably my biggest surprise is the dreadful writing. Now, I've only played a Human Thief beyond level 30 - so I can't truly speak for the others - but it was some of the most juvenile and boring writing I've seen in any MMO. MMO writing is not exactly amazing - so we're talking a seriously sad effort.

Ultimately, I think the game is one of the most powerful examples of "The Emperor's New Clothes" in the gaming industry.

I find it very, very strange that so many people have let themselves be taken in by what I consider blatantly hollow design and gameplay. I know that all things are subjective - but in this case, I truly believe that a very significant portion of fans are deluded. I really, truly do.

In a few years, I expect talk of GW2 to be quite rare - and though I'm sure the biggest supporters will stick to their opinions about it being amazing, I doubt a lot of people will be playing it much.

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Originally posted by vort3x

Originally posted by crosslee

Structured PvP is nice for an hour or two but then it gets boring. Can't make premade groups which is odd but understandable i guess. Again the accesiblilty is there for casuals to jump in and start playing but thats about it. I don't get an addiction for it like other mmo's PvP systems.

O rly?!?! Are you sure you even played a single hour?

Seriosuly, I don't understand people who take time to make a post about a game, they know nothing about...

I was thinking this on so many of the "unrewarding" and "pointless" comments the OP made. Everything is rewarding in this game, everything gives you currency, items, enhancements, materials this list goes on. All affected btw by the +% to magic drop :)

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First,it actually brings the "MMO" to the open world instead of the "MMO" in an instance.

Additionally it made every player an ally in PVE, removing factions and removing competition for resources.

It also changed "questing", from the method of delivering them to the way it rewards them.

It is also possible to craft the best items in the game instead of them being hidden in some instance.

There are also a number of things that aren't exactly exclusive to it but that aren't (or were at GW2 release date) very common in MMORPGs, like 3-side PvP, non gear based PvP, etc.

What do you mean by the marked line?

Are you saying that GW2 is a non instanced game, i'm missing your point?

GW2 Open world isn't instanced, is there any doubs about that?

What I mean is that you actually have masses of people playing together towards the same shared objective in the open world of GW2, something that in most other games doesn't happen except in Raids and maybe the illusion of a populated open world in new starter areas for a race until the game shifts to a lobby like playstyle.

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It's not revolutionary at all, but it brings some features to the fore that have been hiding in other games but maybe not working as well.

A truly revolutionary game will be one that starts as almost nothing and gathers up a large following out of what seems like nothing, using mechanics and systems that many people wouldn't have even thought they would like or even enjoy.

Every game is evolving the genre, and many of them like GW2, The Secret World and even DayZ are showing that there are enough gamers that like these games niche type of gameplay that they can all co exist and no one HAS to dethrone WoW as the MMO giant.

We don't need another industry giant like WoW, we just need companies making games for the love of the game and not for the love of money. If only 50 other folk played DayZ I would still play it because I enjoy the gameplay, not everyone needs to be millionaires.

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First,it actually brings the "MMO" to the open world instead of the "MMO" in an instance.

Additionally it made every player an ally in PVE, removing factions and removing competition for resources.

It also changed "questing", from the method of delivering them to the way it rewards them.

It is also possible to craft the best items in the game instead of them being hidden in some instance.

There are also a number of things that aren't exactly exclusive to it but that aren't (or were at GW2 release date) very common in MMORPGs, like 3-side PvP, non gear based PvP, etc.

What do you mean by the marked line?

Are you saying that GW2 is a non instanced game, i'm missing your point?

GW2 Open world isn't instanced, is there any doubs about that?

What I mean is that you actually have masses of people playing together towards the same shared objective in the open world of GW2, something that in most other games doesn't happen except in Raids and maybe the illusion of a populated open world in new starter areas for a race until the game shifts to a lobby like playstyle.

Once you have explored the zones and done the quests in GW2 though you enter the lobby game too, idling in cities, crafting, dungeons, pvp, WvW, do it all without really going anywhere. Add in the fact that you can just fast travel anywhere and it feels even smaller.

None of the zones in GW2 connected at all, so its not really OPEN fi you want to get down to it, everything is connected by a loading screen and once a certain amoutn of people are in that zone you are placed in an overflow, so it is instanced.

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Googling turns up an interesting lack of results. What's funny is that all known instances of this phrase, or close variants, spawed here, in this thread.

If you're questioning who's 'guilty of generating the hype'? It's the OP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Classic, easy political trick.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.