If the problem is not a lack of quality staff then it is surely poor facilities and resources. Just like KFC will never be able to produce haute cusine....

Maybe the design team is brilliant but the wind tunnels give the wrong data, 50% scale models are not represenative enough, calibrations are wrong etc.

Let us not forget the team do not have a winning pedigree and that is for a reason, their facilites are not championship winning.

I dont see how a move from 50% scale to 60% will do much when Ferrari et al are already running close to 100%.

The bold part I don't believe. As far as I know, mercedes actually have two 100% scale wind tunnels. Their use, as with all other teams, are heavily restricted under teh RRA. I believe teams can trade straight line tests for 100% scale tests.

But as far as I know, 60% is the largest one can go without incurring severe restrictions. Therefore, I doubt ferrari or anyone else are consistently running 100% as you are suggesting.

The bold part I don't believe. As far as I know, mercedes actually have two 100% scale wind tunnels. Their use, as with all other teams, are heavily restricted under teh RRA. I believe teams can trade straight line tests for 100% scale tests.

But as far as I know, 60% is the largest one can go without incurring severe restrictions. Therefore, I doubt ferrari or anyone else are consistently running 100% as you are suggesting.

22.9 With the exception of the full scale testing permitted in 22.4(iii) above, no wind tunnel testing may be carried out using a scale model which is greater than 60% of full size.

iii) Four one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 January of the current year and the start of the last Event of the Championship. Any of these days may be substituted for four hours of wind on full scale wind tunnel testing to be carried out in a single twenty four hour period.

Full scale being the actual car as it would be outrageously expensive to create a 100% model only for a couple of hours testing.

there was a rumor that Schumi would basically drive 2013 spec car at interlagos (as much as permitted with the current chassis) ... any truth in that??? i'd keep a close eye, specially if they bring Lotus style passive DRS to brazil.

He agrees that they do need a coanda exhaust in 2013, yet they prefer to test the tires using the early 2012 neutral exhaust, so that they can get a comparison between early 2012 and the 2013 tires. For me this means that they know that the current coanda exhaust is fundamentally flawed and can not even be uses as a baseline for tnext years design. Which means 2 things:

1. the upgrades for this years cars totally failed
2. next years exhaust will be hit or miss, as they lack any reliable data to work with

Not good imho.

And I am not trying to bash them but in my work experience I would always want to collect data for a solution as close to my planed design as possible, because even if I do change many things, it is still better to share basic layout decisions, when testing new parts (tires), than using a fundamentally different solutions to test the new parts in this configuration.

For me their decisions means that they only know the difference between the tires with the neutral exhaust. But I see no logical way to use this data for a coanda exhaust.

Imagine the car is better with the new tires. So they would know they have more grip, they might also be able to see if the tires heat-up faster or if they overheat faster. But they have no way of knowing how the tires react when being heated by the exhaust gases.
Would they use one car with the neutral setting and one with coanda, they could compare this and see the influence of the exhaust gases, even if the exhaust is not working as expected.

The worst scenario is that they fail to reach the operating window of the new tires during the test, which means they would gain no knowledge at all.

Yes, they wheel the car into the tunnel. Not sure if and why you dispute that.

I think the point is that 100% scale testing has a different purpose to 60% scale testing.

Sure, when testing at 100%, you can wheel in the car, but this doesn't replace the 60% testing which is where new ideas initially get tested after CFD. Building a 60% component is cheaper than the actual thing, and faster, as they use different materials.

Also I believe there is a very low limit on the number of hours of 100% wind tunnel testing which is allowed, and this is taken out of the allocated straight line tests. So it is in fact considered an alternative to a straight line test.

I think the point is that 100% scale testing has a different purpose to 60% scale testing.

Sure, when testing at 100%, you can wheel in the car, but this doesn't replace the 60% testing which is where new ideas initially get tested after CFD. Building a 60% component is cheaper than the actual thing, and faster, as they use different materials.

Also I believe there is a very low limit on the number of hours of 100% wind tunnel testing which is allowed, and this is taken out of the allocated straight line tests. So it is in fact considered an alternative to a straight line test.

I didn't realise the restrictions on the 100% model scaling. Anyway, the other points still standing, they have only just understood that the 60% scaling is more beneficial, which begs the question; why didn't they do that under Honda with their mega millions?

Ross might of been TP for a while now but the team as changed massively since '08, it needed to scale down a lot after Honda pulled out and they had minimal finance's in '09 to develop the W01.

Since then its a case of building the team up, both personal and technologies. These things take time, all the changes like Aldo Cost et all joining won't have an immediate effect, they haven't been around long enough to influence the performance, so far. That starts from 2013, more likely they are looking at the new regs in 2014 so its not until then that we can begin to judge Ross as a TP in my opinion.

But the point is that Daimler did not consciously invest in a rebuilding-project, both Zetsche and Schumacher were was obviously convinced that they had bought a WDC and WCC team.

The truth is that it was, and still is, a bullsh*t team filled with bullsh*t people and nobody in charge, the only reason for 2009 was that Brawn's old employer allowed them to cheat.

The only thing that will save this weekend and offer a glimmer of hope is for Schumacher to string together a top 6 lap, which is quite possible, on Saturday and then bank on the rain on Sunday to make up places.

According to Sky they've blocked up the double DRS, either because they think they're better off without it fullstop or because if it rains on Sunday it won't gain them anything. Again, according to Sky F1 speculation.

According to Sky they've blocked up the double DRS, either because they think they're better off without it fullstop or because if it rains on Sunday it won't gain them anything. Again, according to Sky F1 speculation.

If DDRS (the ROOT of the heavy rear tyre wear) can be blocked off, why couldnt they do that as soon as they realised it was more hinderance than help?

According to Sky they've blocked up the double DRS, either because they think they're better off without it fullstop or because if it rains on Sunday it won't gain them anything. Again, according to Sky F1 speculation.

I think they just throw it away and with saved weight they balance the car better. For old car it looks fast.

Regarding the wind tunnel at Brackley, from what I can tell this was originally built for Reynard who were part of the original set up at BAR. When Reynard went bankrupt in 2002 BAR then aquired the factory at Brackley and the wind tunnel, according to some blurb I've found the original wind tunnel could run 50% scale models.
Then in 2006 Honda opened a new full scale wind tunnel at Brackley.
I can't find a lot of information about either wind tunnel.

Regarding the wind tunnel at Brackley, from what I can tell this was originally built for Reynard who were part of the original set up at BAR. When Reynard went bankrupt in 2002 BAR then aquired the factory at Brackley and the wind tunnel, according to some blurb I've found the original wind tunnel could run 50% scale models. Then in 2006 Honda opened a new full scale wind tunnel at Brackley. I can't find a lot of information about either wind tunnel.

That was something I found peculiar at Austin, in FP3 when it was cooler Rosberg was faster than Schumacher, in qualifying when the track was hotter Schumacher was faster than Rosberg. I would have thought the opposite, Schumacher should have had the advantage in lower temperatures because the exhaust was heating the tyres, whereas Rosberg should have been less hindered when the track was warmer. Even if MS' advantage in qualifying was due to the extra downforce from the Coanda exhaust, where was this advantage through practice?

Exhaust would heat up the rear tires, while it's usually the front tires that are not up to temperature and cause problems.

Mercedes tunnel is 100% scale capable but for some reason they used 50% and not the allowed 60% for long time.

It's a big challenge to change from 50% to 60%. It's not just "Oh instead of multiplying the dimensions of our parts by 0.5, we just do it by 0.6" Also the benefits are not as obvious as 60% > 50% in terms of accuracy.

Lewis whining at this goodbye interview for the BBC. Martin Whitmarsh talking about "gap year" for HAM and he his recently downplay of Perez abilities. Seems to be a funny year in 2013. If the mercedes is crap we are likely in the position to see an fantastic theater play. The losers of this special act will be Perez and Mercedes. The one losing his seat and the others their new top driver. Hamilton and McLaren will fall in love again that's for sure I hear Hollywood is calling

Fantastic Lewis only because you're gone crazy after your singapore retirement but I really have to thank you. You made the decision for Michael very easy. He can leave that "team" and save himself for bigger disappointments.

Lewis whining at this goodbye interview for the BBC. Martin Whitmarsh talking about "gap year" for HAM and he his recently downplay of Perez abilities. Seems to be a funny year in 2013. If the mercedes is crap we are likely in the position to see an fantastic theater play. The losers of this special act will be Perez and Mercedes. The one losing his seat and the others their new top driver. Hamilton and McLaren will fall in love again that's for sure I hear Hollywood is calling

Fantastic Lewis only because you're gone crazy after your singapore retirement but I really have to thank you. You made the decision for Michael very easy. He can leave that "team" and save himself for bigger disappointments.

Yeah. What's wrong with it? Hamilton cried. Whitmarsh spoke about a "gap year". That's comedy gold. They didn't want to go separate ways but did in the end. For me it likely that Hamilton goes after one season back to McLaren after driving a dog of a car at Mercedes. This scenario is not unlikely and if this happened Perez and Mercedes are the big losers. You can annoyed about my word choice but in general I didn't say anything against your driver

Yeah. What's wrong with it? Hamilton cried. Whitmarsh spoke about a "gap year". That's comedy gold. They didn't want to go separate ways but did in the end. For me it likely that Hamilton goes after one season back to McLaren after driving a dog of a car at Mercedes. This scenario is not unlikely and if this happened Perez and Mercedes are the big losers. You can annoyed about my word choice but in general I didn't say anything against your driver

I'll help you out... the question to Whitmarsh was that Hamilton leaving was bit like him being a student leaving home to go and experience something new, to which Whitmarsh's response was to hope he was off on a gap year. You shouldn't therefore take the gap year comment too literally in the sense that it's proof they plan to be running back to each other for 2014.

I'll help you out... the question to Whitmarsh was that Hamilton leaving was bit like him being a student leaving home to go and experience something new, to which Whitmarsh's response was to hope he was off on a gap year. You shouldn't therefore take the gap year comment too literally in the sense that it's proof they plan to be running back to each other for 2014.

And you also seem confused between whining and crying.

Devil is confused about a lot of things...don't worry, it's normal.

Anyhow, I think Hamilton is going to find himself between a rock and a hard place with the W04.

There is nothing this team has done over the last 3 seasons that convinces me they have any ability to field anything but a midfield car.

Anyhow, I think Hamilton is going to find himself between a rock and a hard place with the W04.

There is nothing this team has done over the last 3 seasons that convinces me they have any ability to field anything but a midfield car.

Yeah, I am confused as always like you when start posting quotes nobody heard of before and don't come up with explanation after somebody ask you for a reliable source. You are one of the users which shouldn't threw bricks when living in a glass house. Perhaps you understand I am not a native, is not that hard to guess if you read my comments, but I understand the difference between crying (Ham cried yesterday) and whining. I made a mistake yesterday, but no need to panic

First question to ask is what does Hamilton want with this bizarre career-move, I for one am not so certain that it's more than cashing in and build another endeavor with the tri-star as a vehicle?

That's a great question...he certainly can't be oblivious to the ineptness of MGP right?

What you say, sounds like the truth.

I imagine his dad and management told him he needs to get a maximum cash deal to prepare for life outside of F1. So this is like a 401k of sorts for Lewis so he can fund his ventures post-F1. They had to have been ecstatic that Daimler was willing to fork over gobs of cash when it's clear nothing great is going to come of this.

All Lewis has to do is show up for the usual corporate functions, and bitch with Lauda on RTL. Pretty good deal, no?

That's a great question...he certainly can't be oblivious to the ineptness of MGP right?

What you say, sounds like the truth.

I imagine his dad and management told him he needs to get a maximum cash deal to prepare for life outside of F1. So this is like a 401k of sorts for Lewis so he can fund his ventures post-F1. They had to have been ecstatic that Daimler was willing to fork over gobs of cash when it's clear nothing great is going to come of this.

All Lewis has to do is show up for the usual corporate functions, and bitch with Lauda on RTL. Pretty good deal, no?

Except that the final offer from McLaren was said to be bigger and he still turned it down.