Translator was a bit overwhelmed with Russian phone calls transcripts and I just hope there will be English version soon. As I learned Russian language for 10 years I could get more from this dialogues. It is worth to read them...

The video animation and today Financial Times coverage is very compelling. I have a question about the IFF/secondary radar, surely MH17 was transmitting? Before we fired any missiles (and this was many years ago and at sea) there was a well rehearsed procedure for checking the target was adhering to a known flight path or not and was transmitting on IFF or not. I wouldn't expect a radio warning on land. If MH17 was transmitting then surely the missile radar operators knew? A Ukrainian military aircraft would not transmit or spoof on civilian IFF and the missile team wouldn't want to shoot down one of their own aircraft.

So UkSATSE (Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise) deliberately leaving airspace over a war zone available to CAT has no bearing...

Little . They claimed that based on the information they had the rebels had no access to no high altitude missiles.( which might be true ) UkSATSE also needed the cash of the overflights charges to continue operating. so no real incentive to go beyond what their own State intelligence told them .

But some airlines did deliberately avoid that airspace based on their State info. Was this just precautionary of based on real intelligence? I leave the answer open as I do not have it. What is sure is that they did not share that info with other airlines, not even within their own Airline alliance.. ICAO since jumped in , and there is now a policy/procedures for such cases. Too late unfortunately for MH17 .

If MH17 was transmitting then surely the missile radar operators knew? A Ukrainian military aircraft would not transmit or spoof on civilian IFF and the missile team wouldn't want to shoot down one of their own aircraft.

If I recall correctly, the rebels did not have any aircraft. As such, they could be confident any aircraft spotted were not theirs. That might (my speculation) have resulted in a lack of care in evaluating the aircraft's IFF status. Or alternatively, some situation may have caused them to believe it was a military aircraft deliberately showing civil IFF codes, or the launcher may have been handed over to a crew with limited training.

Little . They claimed that based on the information they had the rebels had no access to no high altitude missiles.( which might be true ) UkSATSE also needed the cash of the overflights charges to continue operating. so no real incentive to go beyond what their own State intelligence told them .

But some airlines did deliberately avoid that airspace based on their State info. Was this just precautionary of based on real intelligence? I leave the answer open as I do not have it. What is sure is that they did not share that info with other airlines, not even within their own Airline alliance.. ICAO since jumped in , and there is now a policy/procedures for such cases. Too late unfortunately for MH17 .

It is the State's duty (via the ANSP) to ensure the safety of CAT within it's airspace. Airspace is routinely denied to CAT due to Military activity. Revenue is not an acceptable reason to risk the safety of civil aircraft, particularly in the event of conflict.

100 witnesses were identified today, who were somehow involved in this atrocity. Their names are known to the investigation team. Some of them have blood on their hands. Some are pure witnesses. Their names were withheld, as is always the case in such proceedings in NL. Russia should re-evaluate their stance in this affair. They act like a banana republic in the face of such damning evidence. They are in denial.

Last edited by T28B; 29th Sep 2016 at 23:32.
Reason: response to a deleted post was deleted

That type Buk TELAR (launcher with radar) has only Russian military IFF requester, not Western/international type civilian secondary, MODE-S. Soviet type civilian secondary is obsolete, not used anymore.

Interesting 'Hard Talk' on BBC today. The man in the hot seat was Putin's spokesman in Moscow. His middle name was deflector. OK, he is a mouth piece, but his words are Putin's words. Denial was the name of the game, but in a slightly diluted form than some months ago. What will be crucial is the resolve of the EU & NL in particular. Mettle & true colours will be on display on both sides. Will it be a respectful outcome to the fallen victims & families, or a fudge? If the latter then it would be a huge display of double standards on the world stage, when you consider how many conflicts are active around the globe.

I would not bet much on the EU resolve , but one thing I can tell you from a long experience in the country if that the Dutch will not stop and bury this .Somebody did wrong to them and they will go to the bottom of it as long as it takes. . Calvinist culture is still strong there.

The elephant in the room here folks is the large Russian army that was poised to invade Ukraine itching for a causus belli. Why not shoot down one of your OWN airliners? Sadly they're cynical enough to do so. After the attack cue excited comment 'We just shot the Antonov' rapidly removed from tinternet

Personally I always go for stupid over conspiracy - give a bunch of yahoos determined on independence a modern sophisticated Anti -Air missile and they're going to use it for sure......................

The elephant in the room here folks is the large Russian army that was poised to invade Ukraine itching for a causus belli. Why not shoot down one of your OWN airliners? Sadly they're cynical enough to do so. After the attack cue excited comment 'We just shot the Antonov' rapidly removed from tinternet

This version makes sense. Russia needed that reason to start an open war with Ukraine. Its own plane that would have been shot down by "bloody Ukraines" would have given that reason...

It was supposed to be a russian plane flying to Larnaca. Problems for Buk crew started when they reached a wrong position which in Russia sounded very similar to where they should have been instead. Since they relied on a radar from Russia, they shot down a wrong airliner...

After the attack cue excited comment 'We just shot the Antonov' rapidly removed from tinternet

Surprisingly the Russian News Agency Tass still have that article on their website.

Quote:

July 17, 2014, 20:01

DONETSK, July 17. /ITAR-TASS/. The mlitia of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) have brought down a military transport Antonov-26 (An-26) plane of the Ukrainian Air Force on the outskirts of the town of Torez, eyewitnesses said.

A missile hit the An-26, it fell on the ground and caught blaze, they said.

On July 14, militiamen of the self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic downed another An-26 of the Ukrainian Air Force.

There is no credibility to this investigation imho. The various parties involved in the Ukrainian civil war all have large axes to grind, as do the various intelligence agencies monitoring or manipulating events. That makes a judicial inquiry impracticable, because national security and foreign policy considerations prevent full disclosure.