In January, we added a mere 113,000 jobs to the U.S. economy and the labor force participation rate reached a 35-year low — the lowest [[{“type”:”media”,”view_mode”:”media_large”,”fid”:”555302″,”attributes”:{“alt”:””,”class”:”media-image”,”height”:”…continue reading on mitchellrepublic.com

They are talking points, and amongst the base, fairly effective ones. Yes, they are misleading, but Thune would claim that the Democrat talking points are misleading. You have to see the humor in this constant spread of misinformation. Watch more Jon Stewart, it will help give you perspective.

Seniors can thank Obamacare for robbing more money from Medicare to pay for Obamacare. I guess Medicare wasn’t going broke fast enough to suit Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama and most of the other Democrats who voted for Obamacare. Anyone on a Medicare Advantage plan better be looking for an alternative because Medicare Advantage plans will be In trouble shortly.

“robbing more money from Medicare to pay for Obamacare”, “Medicare wasn’t going broke fast enough”, “caused financial difficulties for millions”, “a total disaster”
Really?!
Can you back up ANY of these statements? One of you claims to be a millionaire small business owner. Other than (maybe) some money out of your pocket, how has this affected you? Are you in danger of going out of business? Have you lost employees? Would you tell the truth?
Give it a break, the ship has sailed.

Hey!! Wait a minute! Look, at least your giving it a good try, I asked for proof and you supplied and answer. I can respect that….but a couple of things.
1-the source of your answer is from a conservative source funded by the Heritage Foundation so I would say it’s a little (actually a lot) biased.
2-it’s a blog….not a news source. It’s just an opinion.
3-it was written 8/12/12. When did the law go into effect?
but hey, it’ s a lot better than what the other guy comes up with (that would be nothing).

Don, this is one of those Thunian statements — its true as far as it goes, but of course, utterly misleading. What they are talking about is that in EVERY plan being proposed adjustments to Medicare were included. Yes, boys and girls, the so-called Ryan plan as well as all of the more recent Republican plans had the same $700B savings. The “savings” comes if you assume that no changes were made to the law, but of course, certain things were going to change no matter which plan got implemented.

Take Medicare Advantage for example. When it started out it was a simple idea. Private insurance companies would be allowed to cover Medicare patients and would receive from the government the cost of a patient as reimbursement. The theory was that private insurance companies would be able to deliver at lower cost than the federal government. Some folks worried that the insurance companies would find ways to cherry pick (for example, offering free gym memberships to try and attract more healthy, and therefore cheaper patients). But despite this advantage, something the Republicans quietly want to bury happened. NONE of the private plans worked. The companies eventually had to talk congress into paying them MORE for each Medicare Advantage patient — because it turned out when it came to health care, the inherent advantages of the Medicare system make it more cost effective.

So, how does this relate? In every single Republican plan, including the Ryan plan and all of the others that were floated, the extra payments for Medicare Advantage patients were stopped, just as in the ACA. There are a bunch of similar savings that ALL plans were going to use.

So, yes Obamacare took advantage of the SAME savings the Republicans wanted to use. But, of course, stating it accurately isn’t nearly as nice sounding for the Republicans.

Its not really fair to say there haven’t been Republican alternatives proposed. There have been (and are). The problem they run in to is that they end up being versions of Obamacare with fairly minor shifts that generally end up looking unworkable in the long run.

Take, for example, the current flavor of the month “The Patient Choice, Affordability, Responsibility and Empowerment Act,” which you can find on Orrin Hatch’s website.

Differences:
* Premiums: Obamacare says that the largest difference in premiums an insurance company can have is 3 to 1, the Republican plan says 5 to 1 (and states can set their own).
* Mandate/Continuous Coverage: the individual mandate, that people must buy insurance was the price the insurance companies wanted if they were not going to be able to deny people. The Republican plan has a Continuous Coverage option that sounds pretty good. You would be able to always switch to a new plan as long as you have been covered. So, where does this fall apart? If you do not have coverage then you cannot avail yourself of the continuous coverage clause and have to pay what you are asked. So, we are back to having uncovered individuals that the rest of us pay for because they do not have coverage. So, again, medical costs will skyrocket.
* Subsidy/Tax Credit: Obamacare has a subsidy system based on the cost of your plans and how much you make, the Republicans replace that with a tax credit that does not take into account the cost of the plan. So, some folks may still not be able to pay for plans and others might actually make money on the system finding plans that cost less than their credit.
* Reforming Medicaid/Requiring Transparency/etc.: mostly the same
* Medical Malpractice: the Republican plan includes a focus on tort reform, which every Republican says can help with costs. Only problem is, we already have lots of case studies where states *did* tort reform for medical systems and found that it had no effect on costs. But hey, it makes a good talking point.

So, if its close to Obamacare, why not consider it? As noted above, it does not solve the problem of having lots of uninsured people, the “freeloaders” as Republicans like to refer to them, that are one of the biggest hidden health costs we have. So, right there, Obamacare will, in the long run, greatly reduce healthcare costs.

But another problem is that the Republican Health Care Plans would again have no real requirements. So, I could offer a plan that costs $100 a year, that I call a health plan, but where I set the maximum coverage per year at $0. Might be useful for someone wanting to claim the tax credit, but since I am not paying for anything, it really does that person no good, and means that that person I “covered” may end up having to use emergency care or other care that the rest of us pay for. There is a reason Obamacare includes a certain set of required things that have to be included.

Again, its not surprising that any Republican plan will look like Obamacare — Obamacare is based on a series of Republican plans (from Nixon, Bob Dole and them finally implemented by Mitt Romney). The “individual mandate” was always the centerpiece of the Republican approach (which is why it is fun watching them go off on it).

“If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance, period.” “If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. ” ” Health insurance premiums will average $2500.00 less per family. ” The left buys into these lies yet they talk to us about facts.

An endless stream of lies will get us to a “better place”? I look at paying $5000.00 per year in increased health insurance premiums as more than a “bump in the road”. Obamacare is a seething cesspool that will only stink more with time.

Enough already with the lie stuff….let’s just agree they all lie. Tell me one that has not…..so, stop already.
The money you are talking about is taken from your business, your take home is still the same or do you have to put off buying that vacation house for a year…..please.
$5000 a year (and I still don’t believe it anyway but….) what did you pay before? What’s the net difference.

So when is the left going to own up to the lies? Obamacare is just one big lie. I know the left doesn’t like to be reminded of their steady litany of lies. They have nothing else. What I’ve told you is fact, that you don’t believe it is your problem.

You only say that to make another excuse for Obama’s lies. Perhaps you could relate how the others have lied while I see a predominance of truth. If you do point out something that is inaccurate explain how it is a willful lie like that of the pathological liar Obama.

The numbers don’t lie. Politifact spends a lot of time fact checking statements by various politicians. While they focus not on checking every day to day thing, but rather on claims they make that make the media, in a sense, the latter focus is more representative of the statements that those politicians that people tend to associate with them, so they better capture the trustworthiness of those politicians most well known claims. They then rate statements as True, Mostly True, Half True, Mostly False, False and Pants on Fire. For the President, Paul, Cruz and Walker here are the numbers:

We can break this down a number of ways. One astonishing thing is the sheer number of Pants On Fire comments that have been made by Cruz and Walker in their relatively short careers (kind of impressive to be liars of that level).

If we look at True or Mostly True combined then Sen Paul comes up as slightly beating the President (but this flips if you throw in Half True):

True or Mostly True:
Obama: 46%
Paul: 53%
Cruz: 20%
Walker: 25%

But looking at the percentage of lies (Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire) its pretty clear that if Cruz or Walker makes a controversial statement, you would be better off assuming that they are wrong:

@RickM
Thank you, I had just finished the same analysis from the same source. Is it just me or does it seem odd that the party that asked for the information has a tantrum when shown the truth of the statements that are made.
Talk about living with denial. The source is Political Fact….non partisan. THAT’S ALL THEY DO!! but because the result isn’t what is wanted you get the reaction of a child…ridiculous.

Whups, noticed the spacing was lost. Sen Rand Paul had 0 Pants on Fire (and therefore 0%) Pants on Fire comments. Clearly the only one of the three that should be considered as truthful as President Obama.

Its interesting, Politifact’s Lies of the Year have mostly been related to health care:

Lies of the Year
2009: Palin’s assertion that the ACA would lead to government “death panels”
2010: Opponents assertions that the ACA would lead to a government takeover of health care
2011: Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee’s assertion that the budget proposed by Paul Ryan and voted for by Republicans in the House and Senate would end Medicare
2012: Claim by Mitt Romney that President Obama sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China
2013: President Obama’s assertion that “if you like your health care plan, you can keep it”

The jury is still out on the death panels as Obamacare hasn’t been fully implemented yet. Both RickM and Don Corleone have advocated for single payer government insurance which will ultimately lead to the government takeover of healthcare.

@ Gomez
You’re taking your eye off the ball. I said they all lie. You asserted Obama is the worst (and it’s clear nothing will change that view-no matter what~~ shrug~~) and I ask for an example of who would be better and you gave 3. They have all been shown to be (to be nice) just as bad.
What do you want?
You crow we (I) don’t admit he’s lie….I did. My opinion is you keep pounding on Obama care, Benghazi, whatever and the fact remains your life is no worse off than it was when he took office. Probably better…..but you would never admit to that so the question remains
What do you want? What answer would please you?

Probably shouldn’t throw Benghazi into the mix of “lies.” Turns out somebody bothered to do some real serious journalism on the issue, and while the truth is quite complex, some things stand out:

* No evidence exists that any known terrorist group was involved in the attack (the only Al Qaeda connection was a call by someone at the site to someone who was affiliated with Al Qaeda who was astonished to hear the attack was going on)
* At least some of the people involved in the attack were motivated by the video

There’s a reason the Republicans in Congress are backing down on the BenGhazi rhetoric — turns out they were at least as wrong as Susan Rice was.

I’m not trying to justify any lies…you’re doing that but the fact remains that they all lie. That’s a fact. Some lies are worse than others. You go on, and on and on about the Health Care Act and now (talk about ridiculous) bring up death panels (really!!). How about this “weapons of mass destruction” the death toll is still going up on that one and that doesn’t seem to bother you.
Get some perspective.
Resignation? Impeachment? And how would that make your life better? Your blind hatred of the President is disturbing.

There is nothing about his disastrous policies I don’t hate. My dislike of his policies is generated with my eyes open and my brain working, two things the left isn’t known for. If that disturbs you that is your problem.

Here’s another big lie. The Obamacare backers claim that they are actually strengthening Medicare benefits even though they are robbing the fund. They claim that they are only cutting what Medicare will pay to doctors and health care providers. Well guess what? Doctors and other health care providers aren’t required to accept Medicare patients and the less they are paid by Medicare the more providers will choose not to accept Medicare patients. There is going to be a real crisis in health care for seniors.

You haven’t really read anything on the subject I am assuming? No, cuts to what is paid for Medicare are not included. And for YEARS people have been claiming that because Medicare keeps its costs so low that eventually doctors won’t take such patients. I can find stories going back 40 years making the same claim. Yet the healthcare industry in Florida, Arizona and other places almost entirely dependent on Medicare patients not only do well but flourish. Its an old, tired argument. And just not true.

“Doesn’t mean Fox will let it go, since they know that their viewers don’t bother to fact check.”

Fact check? Most of the Fox viewers I talk to don’t even pay attention to whatever the story actually is. They hear a very misleading teaser of a headline and they’re off to share what they just heard on the “news”.

Since we don’t watch “Fox News” at lunch any more, I have more time to eat. Someone would have it on in the break room, and I’d end up spending a lot of my lunch break showing the people who picked Fox to watch how wrong many of the stories were….with a browser pulled up on my phone.

It seems as if many folks get their “news” the same way Gomez professes to. They choose what they want to believe and then flip through the channels until someone actually SAYS it to them. After making the choice to seek out a version of the news that suits them, they feel vindicated when they’re “proven correct” as they watch it….which seems odd to everyone but them.

“If Obama speaks on the television I turn it off because I know he’s lying if his mouth is moving.”

Not so long ago Gomez, YOU posted in another thread IMMEDIATELY following the state of the union address something along the lines of, “Yeah, I knew it….everything Obama said was what I expected…a bunch of lies and nonsense”.

So I did what I’ve done many times before….I asked you to elaborate. You didn’t, because you had NOTHING to elaborate with. And now….here you are….saying whenever Obama is on tv you turn it off.

That kind of makes you the biggest liar in the room. Do you REALLY turn the tv off whenever Obama is on as you’re saying NOW, or do you leave it on so you can conduct a thoughtful point-by-point analysis of what he has to say as you attempted to make it appear in that other thread?

I’ve heard enough of what Obama has to say in the last 5 years to know there is no purpose in subjecting myself to his endless lying. You are known by the company you keep. Obama surrounds himself with liars and those he surrounds himself with do likewise. The left accepts those lies as truth and the truth as lies.

What a burden you have had to bear the past 5 years. You, Thune and Noem. Having to put up with someone not even born here….wait, that’s wrong. The failed recovery that you have tried so hard to bring us out of…..oh, wait, we are recovering, slowly but recovering with absolutely no help from Congress. The House won’t even bring the jobs bill to the floor. The overwhelming debt…..sorry, forgot the debt is below the level it was at when he took over. The housing market…..wait, what’s that? It’s back…..sorry.
Thune and Noem should actually try to DO something.

…yet another weak attempt at backpedaling. Maybe you ought to pm the forum moderator and request special “editing privileges”. That way it will be less *inconvenient* when you’re quoted directly….contradicting your earlier posts.

Wouldn’t it be FABULOUS if you could modify earlier posts and be able to say, “I never said that….” when someone cuts and pastes what you’ve posted?

17 trillion in debt, real unemployment at 15 percent, fewer Americans working now than when Obama took over, Obamacare an unmitigated disaster, yup, those Obama accomplishments are something to be proud of.

Better re-check your facts, my friend. Sorry, forgot you’re not interested in facts. You have your eyes and ears and have this unnatural ability to weed out the “non” facts based on your life experience. Life in the bubble. That elephant in the room keeps blocking your vision.

I picked the above link because it refers to the subject at hand and it could have been written about you (senor gomez). The sad part is you won’t read it. You’ll look at the link, see “salon”, and “dismiss” it as leftist drivel. It’s a completely ignorant thing to do…..but that’s your move. Read it and give some kind of intelligent answer….please. I ridicule because I care.

If you cared you wouldn’t support millions losing their insurance and massive increases in insurance costs for health insurance because of Obamacare. You’re not going to be able to turn that pig into a princess.

Just like I said……you didn’t read it
Go ahead. Stick your head in the sand howl at the moon, whatever you want, but know that what you say is meaningless because you have no idea what you’re talking about and refuse to benefits of facts put in front of you. You should run for office. With you, Thune and Noem you can bring us into the 20th century.

Definitely a mixed bag. Makes me wonder how much better things would be if the Republicans hadn’t stood in the way of Obama and the Democrats attempts to stimulate the economy? I think there are going to be a bunch of economics courses taught in 20-30 years about the damage done to the country by the Tea Party types, just as courses have been taught about how protectionism worsened the depression.

Some of the numbers are perhaps a bit misleading too. Gas prices look like they have gone up significantly during Obama’s time. But a lot depends on when you look at:

July 14, 2008: Average US gas price $4.054 per gallon
November 3, 2008: Same year, average price down to $2.34 — what happened, the Great Recession. The price will continue to drop reaching a low of $1.59 the week of December 29, 2008.

When calculating how much gas prices have changed during the Obama years they generally use the $1.832 value from the week of his inauguration. But this week’s value of $3.394, while a significant increase over that $1.832 is still much less than that $4.054 just a few months before Obama was elected. So, which is right?

I hope Thune and Noem keep reminding people what a disaster Obamacare is. A whole lot of Democrats are wishing the issue would just go quietly away. A lot of Democrats running for office are trying to distance themselves from Obama and Obamacare. If they voted for Obamacare people need to know that and vote accordingly.

Yes, I remember when Ronald Reagan, who fought so hard against Medicare in the 1950s and early 60s finally became President he immediately repealed that crazy socialist plan-Medicare. Nobody ever likes those socialist plan. It was even more awesome when he threw out that other socialist system – the VA hospital system.

You obviously have not gone off to war!!! VA medical is not just a socialist system. The people getting medical care through the VA have paid a high price for their medical care. A socialist system would be people getting something without earning it and that doesn’t define people getting VA medical care at all. As to Medicare they are people who paid into the system their entire working lives. Have the people getting Obamacare welfare paid in their entire lives?

” A socialist system would be people getting something without earning it ” What?!! Where do you come up with this stuff?
Omega- you want to show outrage? Then take Thune and Noem to task for completely ignoring the returning vets healthcare backlog. They’ll march in parades and give speeches about “our returning heroes” but make no mistake, they don’t give a rats __ after they vote for them. And they (you) do but their record towards their well being is a disgrace. Put your outrage where it belongs.

If you are getting a subsidized Obamacare health policy you are the recipient of welfare. A person on Medicare paid into the fund their entire working lives and therefore are not getting welfare. (I think Social Security and Medicare would be in a lot better shape if the politicians would quit using it as a piggy bank for their pet projects like Obamacare). Veterans using the VA are not getting welfare. They’ve all paid a price for that benefit some much more than others. Some of the people who went to war have horrific injuries not usually seen in civilian settings. The VA is more experienced in treating these injuries than civilian health care centers. We OWE that much to those defending our nation. I don’t feel a need to pay for Obamacare welfare. (The Boston bomber brothers were immigrants sucking on our welfare system who most likely would have qualified for Obamacare). Now lets see how many Democrats brag about having voted for Obamacare this election cycle. I bet not many.

@omega
A lot of military families use food stamps. They have to. Doctors at the VA are no where near the best doctors so, again, the vets are not getting the help they need.
Your taking a position and trying to make your argument fit the position and you are making up facts to support them.
Do better

And this is exactly my point. People who are opposed to the ACA are often folks who are receiving benefits themselves. “I paid for my Medicare.” Perhaps, but it is not likely. The vast majority of people who receive Medicare currently will receive more than they put in even accounting for interest. So these people are, according to your definition from previous messages, receiving welfare (given your past statements omega, it would appear that this includes you). Certainly the Ronald Reagan of the late 50s and early 60s certainly thought you were.

As to the VA. You do not have to go to war to receive benefits. Many did not. My father got his 20 without ever going to war. One of my best friends is closing in on his 30, and has never been fired on (the Air Force can be quite safe). I actually do honor the military (and have worked for the defense department many times), but I also recognize that the VA system is a socialized medicine system (very much like the English system), and it is paid for by our taxes (as is the military). So it is paid for by our society.

So, lets see, about 35-40% of people who purchase health care on the ACA exchanges will not receive any subsidies. But many will. So, the ACA is roughly like Medicare (though done entirely through private insurance companies), so it is clearly less socialized medicine than the VA, and while closer to Medicare, Medicare uses a single payer model, while the ACA works through private companies, so less socialized than Medicare as well (and while some people of the ACA are not paying the full cost, this is also true of Medicare).

But hey, don’t believe me. Believe Ronald Reagan. He saw Medicare as socialism. Who are you to disagree?

“Forget the United States,”Obamacare is nothing more than the largest tax increase in the history of the world.” -Rush Limbaugh

“We researched to find out if anybody on Fox News had ever said you’re going to jail if you don’t buy health insurance. Nobody’s ever said it.” -Fox News

By the way Gomez, are you EVER going to answer my question about whether or not you watched the state of the union address? I know….I know. It kind of sucks that no matter what your answer is, it will reveal something you don’t necessarily want revealed.

You want dates and times? Good grief. Are you familiar at all with “the Google”? Look it up!

(Not buying AT ALL that you’ve “never heard them” either, by the way.)

As far as your assertion that these are “lame examples”, let’s take the first one for instance: Limbaugh is well aware that his loyal followers lap up exaggerated nonsense like that. He’s also well aware that WHEN they lap up exaggerated nonsense like that, their first instinct is to pass it along. Checking to see whether or not it’s accurate is of little concern. The reason I called YOU out for being a Rush/Fox News fan a LONG time ago, is that many of the “statements, (or blurts as I’ve referred to them many times), you make are constructed in EXACTLY the same fashion. Your one-liners have the same intent as these other ones do. Your loyal followers couldn’t care less if your statements are accurate, they “like” them automatically. What’s even more hilarious, is that they “dislike” questions you’re asked about your blurts JUST as automatically. You want proof that examples like the ones I posted above aren’t “lame”? Well, there it is.

How many times have you used the word “lemmings”? How would you describe someone who “likes” posts you make WITHOUT QUESTION, and then “dislikes” it when you’re put on the spot to back the posts up? That sounds exceedingly lemming-like to me.

But I guess if you’re a “Rush lemming”, or a “Fox News lemming”, or a “Gomez lemming”….that’s an entirely different species, huh?

You STILL haven’t answered my question….did you watch the address or not?

Thune and Noem beat the Obamacare drum but they never, NEVER push the Republican alternative……BECAUSE THERE IS NONE!!!!! They will run and win with NO alternative. The Republicans SAY they have a plan and will mention up to 10 different bills that have been brought up in the Republican House…..only to die in committee. They can’t agree themselves on an alternative.
Noem and Thune will use all the “job killing” yada, yada catch phrases the republicans spew all the time and the people of SD will line up behind them like the Pied Piper did with rats because it’s better to clean up after an elephant than a donkey………wait……what are they thinking?

Yeah, they had no input……except it being framed around the Republican Mass. plan. Get a clue.
Jammed down our throats? You mean voted on in both houses and Republicans lost the vote……and the election in 2012 running against it.

I do have a clue and am trying to educate you. As usual, your quote is wrong and, as usual, taken out of context. Here is the original quote with some of the context around it so you will have a clue what is being said.
““You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention — it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting.
“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy. Furthermore, we believe that health care reform, again I said at the beginning of my remarks, that we sent the three pillars that the President’s economic stabilization and job creation initiatives were education and innovation — innovation begins in the classroom — clean energy and climate, addressing the climate issues in an innovative way to keep us number one and competitive in the world with the new technology, and the third, first among equals I may say, is health care, health insurance reform.”