As the clock ticked toward (and past) the fiscal cliff, the Senate reached a deal with President Obama and quickly brought the 157-page agreement to the floor for a vote.

Just past 2 a.m., after only about 10 minutes of debate, it passed 89-8. At least 60 votes were needed to send it to the House.

“Each of us could spend the rest of the week discussing what a perfect solution would have looked like, but the end result would have been the largest tax increase in American history,” Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said before the vote. “…So it took an imperfect solution to prevent our constituents from very real financial pain. But in my view, it was worth the effort.”

“The House will honor its commitment to consider the Senate agreement if it is passed,” Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) tweeted 20 minutes away from midnight.

“Decisions about whether the House will seek to accept or promptly amend the measure will not be made until House members — and the American people — have been able to review the legislation,” House GOP leadership said in a statement.

“When a final agreement is reached and passed by the Senate, I will present it to the House Democratic Caucus,” Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said earlier in the evening.

The deal includes on a $400,000 ceiling for individuals ($450,000 for families) for the extension of Bush-era tax cuts (those above will be taxed at 39.6 percent) and a two-month delay on budget cuts to be offset in part by new tax revenue. That was a Republican concession. Long-term unemployment benefits are also extended for one year.

On the White House’s part, Joe Biden gave in on the estate tax in a deal to spare estates worth as much as $15 million.

“We’re going to save 99 percent of the people. We’re going to make those tax rates, permanent, which is what I’m hearing, which is good,” Paul said on CNN.

“The only thing that kind of confuses me is if it’s good to protect 99 percent of people from a policy akin to drowning, then why is it good then to go ahead and throw the 1 percent overboard and raise the taxes on those? Maybe because they can afford it?” he said. “Well, the problem is that a lot of us work for rich people.”

“This agreement rescues 99 percent of Americans from individual and estate tax increases in 2013, and then makes these lower rates permanent, providing certainty and creating jobs,” Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), one of the many GOP “yes” votes, said. “But the Medicare fiscal cliff is still ahead of us, which is why Senator Corker and I have a proposal to deal with the out-of-control spending that will soon bankrupt the programs seniors rely on to pay their medical bills. If we don’t deal with this during the debt ceiling debate, we are on the road to becoming Greece.”

96 Comments, 47 Threads

The GOP’s civility and spirit of fair play is being used against them by folk who laught at them for it. Stop cooperating w/ Democrats now, because that’s all it means to them. They don’t give and inch and concede something only when they have-to, turn-about is fair play (instead of just being a sucker) then.

“Tonight’s agreement does even more by asking millionaires and billionaires to begin to pay their fair share for the first time in twenty years. As promised, that increase will be immediate, and it will be permanent.”

ASKING them to pay? Like when a brigand puts a knife to your throat and “asks” for your money?

1389AD, do you know how many of us self-identified progressive liberals WANT you to secede? Please, we are begging you to do it. Go ahead, take Texas. And do you know what happens next? Mexico invades with thier paramilitary Zetas, rapes you, takes your women (if there are any of them among you)and takes any teritory our Northern government finds unecessary, and Obama’s USAF drones (what? did you think they were built only for Yemen and Afghanistan?)will swoop in and delete the rest of you like so much letters on a keyboard. Oh yeah, we’ll take back our oil rigs too. Repugnant problem solved!So please, secede, John Galt wannabees. please secede.

Can we suppose all the Senators who voted “accept” – you know those “Honourables” in either party read ALL 157 pages of the “compromise”. Or that SOP they “had to pass it to know what’s in it”? Or to please the big boys on the block in case they say boo?

Is the GO-P called a Party because The people who send them to Washington to guard the health of the USA and rights of American citizens – including those who actually pay for citizenship – expect them to party when in place?

Your describing “the GOP’s civility and spirit of fair play” of their self-serving going along to get along at “compromise” is interesting. With their usual grandstanding at “compromise” with the big boys on the block in case they say boo as courage. And in the interest of the nation.

It’s been a while since we have known of any socalled republican acting up to their name. Aping with bells on the illiberal and undemocratic party called democratic, Members of both groups entrenched to design cultural norms/abnorms and drive the engines of the nation. Drive them according to the scripts and blueprint of the legacy media/entertainment and university liberal arts and social science professors.

Both media and academia NOT elected, directly or indirectly, to govern in this government of, by and for the People.

Criminal gangs wearing expensive and flashy clothes/speeches are no less criminal gangs.

Our noble legislators consistently show the flaws in our education system, especially in the area of math. It seems like they can only add, not subtract, multiply, not divide. I’m not advocating more money allocations for education, just hoping the system will forget ‘new math’ and return to good ol’ basic math concepts.

Damn right. Also, only 10 mins. on the Senate floor for a document weighing in at over 150 pages. Dedicated public servants of principle and vision all, right? Whatever you call this charade, it ain’t government of the people or by the people or for the people.

Just as the Senate played fast and lose with Obamacare’s passage, this agreement appears likewise to be unconstitutional in that the Constitution requires that all revenue bills must be started in the House.

The Congress – at least under the thuggish boot of Obama – has been so far removed from its Constitutional roots it has already fallen off the cliff, and not only fiscally! To most, though not all, the Constitution is somewhere between a joke and an old relic, euphemistically coined ‘ living and breathing’. It isn’t even on life support! What a disgrace. A danger too.

I can’t imagine they can override that rule. But there are several “outs” – the Senate repasses it, it’s not a revenue bill because it lowers revenues, or because it’s an amendment to an existing bill (Ronald Reagan’s tax reform amended the existing Income Tax act).

They aren’t creating new taxes.

But I hope they did NOT extend the payroll tax decrease. The payroll tax is supposed to offset socila security, which is in enough trouble as it is.

True, but I still say that this whole idea of “amend the bill by deleting the entire text and replace it with what the Senate wants in there” is playing fast and loose with the concept of an amendment. That’s an amendment in name only, as it really is a rewrite of the bill.

You reckon those who attempted and still attempt to effect a coup within the GOP will take responsility for having cake-walked the democrats back into controlling power for four more years – an income tax hike on the wealthy, more taxes coming from Obamacare, no control of government spending, no limiting the debt, no reining in the EPA, no reining in government subsides to states and municipalities, etc., etc.?

Sitting back with my popcorn, some nice warm tea and ready too be entertained by the tantrum parties about to begin.

Why worry about it. The nation is 16+ trillion in debt, all of this cliff talk is just theater. It just doesn’t matter anymore, who won, who lost, fans arguing, its like watching a sporting event where no one has caught on that the exits are blocked and stadium is on fire.

They’re not legitimate. The country is run by thieves and criminals. Twain was right about there being no native criminal class in America except for Congress. There probably aren’t 40 of the entire 535 plus 9 plus two whose hand I’d be willing to shake. Most of them I’d call names that aren’t printable here.

I truly despise the lot of them. No honest person should have any association with the U.S. federal government.

Ten minutes of debate… I guess they had to pass it to see what was in it.

Come morning, bright and early, I will call my representative’s office in DC and let him know that if he votes for this I will withhold my future support. And, if he votes to retain Boehner and his clique I will like wise withhold my support. Not only withholding my support, I will actively work to see that he is defeated in two years.

“Today’s agreement builds on previous efforts to reduce our deficits,” he claimed. “Last year, I worked with Democrats and Republicans to cut spending by more than $1 trillion.

Hell, vote for me and I will single-handed cut more than $83trillion from the budget in the first 90 days of my presidency. I can’t take this crap anymore. No sense in voting for either party if the end results is the same. Nothing but unconstitutional bills, increasing debt.

It is now time for those citizens in this country who understand what is happening in our government to forsake their ‘party’ and form a new party that is willing to do what is best for the future of this country. Those who are willing to elect citizen-politicians and turn out the professional political class.

We have come to the end of the road. They have kicked the can right off the cliff and now we are following after it. This is going to be a rough landing.

I sympathize with you, but I don’t see a new party doing any good. The majority of Americans don’t agree with us. The Tea Party, a movement that embodies the values of the Founders, only represents about 20-25 percent of the population. The Progressive machine (press, news media, entertainment, Dem Party, CPUSA, …) despise, slander, and vilify them. And the R establishment is not much better.

We are heading for a societal and economic crash, and there’s simply nothing we can do except to prepare.

Lets go through it again.Ignore the problem,blame the holes that the left drilled in the bottom of the life boat on the one dry rich guy.He in turn(do we still fund the Coast Guard)goes home and passes the cost of those new taxes onto his customers.Same as it ever was.

The Marxists keep trashing the Constitution like the British Crown kept abusing the rights of English citizens in America. People bitched and moaned, threw some tea in the harbor. Then the Brits went off to Concord to grab some guns and powder. Lord Obama said “there will be resistance.” He has no idea. Time for us to read the riot act to this new congress. They have to know they will be held accountable.

Many of those who will see tax increases tomorrow are Democrats. Fuc$ them. Let us see if these Honey Boo Boo voters will even know that the Republicans only control one half of one third of our government.

There was absolutely zero drama involved in this. With the vast majority of DC GOP’ers being the spineless jellyfish that they are, there was zero chance this would turn out any differently. Psst…I’ll let you in on another little secret: 90% or more of Republican Congress Critters enjoy spending your money just as much as their Dem counterparts do. They may spend some of it on stuff we like a little better, but under their “conservative” skins, at heart, most of them are members of the Incumbent Party, just like the Dems, who think their job is to take your money from you and hand it out as party favors in a way most likely to get them re-elected.

“90% or more of Republican Congress Critters enjoy spending your money just as much as their Dem counterparts do.”

That’s it in a nutshell. But this is just what most of the voters want. People who really want governmental fiscal sanity are unfortunately outnumbered. What to do? Carve out your own country while you still have arms & ammunition.

While the GOP has done plenty of things that deserve criticism, we should keep in mind that they aren’t the dishonorable ones here who need the beatdown. The Democrats are the ones who are an utter disgrace here and our anger should be fixed on them and their lackeys in the media and academia.

As I consider “fairness”, it seems to me that all this talk about who is and isn’t pulling their weight has ignored the fact that we have many people who do nothing for society besides basically not vioate the laws. They certainly don’t pay taxes. I’m not sure it is fair for them to not shoulder a collective burden as others do.

“Fairness” and “justice” are the principal buzz words of progressives.

They apply those words willy nilly to everything, the climate, inner city food distribution, accusing the United States of “injustice”, historically and in real time, on and on…

It’s a scam worthy of Stalin, worthy of Goebbels and “the big lie”.

After all, who doesn’t like “fairness” and “justice” ?

These ploys are used in service to the one single agenda item on the progressive calendar, reduction in personal liberty and augmentation of their own power.

(Progressives are, intrinsically, the least “fair” and “just” human beings on the planet.)

Increased revenues from raising taxes on “the rich” who already pay something like 40% of total federal taxes will fund Jabba The Hutt for something like 8 days & will do nothing to address the egregious, and growing, federal deficit.

But who cares about that, when the “fairness” tax shtick sold to the useful idiots during the election helped re-select The One™ and his cabal ?

No spending cuts. It would have been vastly better to go over the mythical “fiscal cliff”. Every Republican that votes for it must be defeated in the mid terms because they voted for the destruction of the American economy and the misery of all future Americans.

House can *amend* the deal to put actual cuts in and send it back to the Senate.

McConnell disappoints yet again. I can live with the tax deal. I cannot live with the lack of cuts. I would reject on that basis alone.

ON THE OTHER HAND, kicking it into the next Congress is reasonable. Lord knows this one hasn’t gotten much done. On the other other hand, the next one won’t be much different.

I don’t care greatly about the estate tax, whether it’s 5 or 10 or 15m. I’m sure it amuses Obama to give the Republicans that, so it cements their interest in the one percent. What drives me crazy are the words like, “Well, the problem is that a lot of us work for rich people.” That DOES cement the Republicans interest being in the one percent and not with 99% of the voters. The VOTERS, remember them? AND IT IS NOT TRUE. Even the great mass of people working for small subchapter-S businesses work for the *business*, a corporation, not for rich people. If the people were so rich, they would not deserve the consideration for a tax break, the owners of those small corps are not “rich”, and you are not working for THEM in any case. That’s what CAPITALISM is about, you (for better or worse) work for the *capital*. At least it’s abstract and impersonal, which keeps all people on the same team.

But hey, I’ve known all the time, not even the Republicans, not a single elected official in DC as far as I know, has any plan that would fix the economy or balance the budget, in anything like a realistic manner (yeah a couple of crazed libertarians would bulldoze DC and plant corn, that would balance the budget I guess but is not realistic).

This bill is pretty powerful politically. The House should bounce it for a little more in cuts, and they can get some if they do, but they will be mostly fraudulent and way too small in any case, and worst of all do NOTHING to fix the economy. The argument is that at least they don’t BREAK the economy further. That may or may not be the case, much of standard procedure over the past year DOES break the economy more and more every day it goes on.

So, in essence, class-warfare won again. Obama can bully just using the class warfare rhetoric; amazing. All those senators that are constantly “amazed” at Obama’s lack of “seriousness” should resign; they’re clueless. Obama will never make a deal unless it further divides and conquers those he means to rule. In other words there are no “solutions”; as long as Obama keep on the demaguoging/class warfare course. This 157 page bill probably includes a new tax on each page!!!

Congress in general seems to have been intimidated and no longer sees itself as a co-equal branch of government but as subservient to the Executive, an executive it has to constantly deal with mealy-mouthed and afraid.

A would be supremacist like Barack loves the relationship. He finds the other two branches of government superfluous at best, scored a big coup when the single justice on the SCOTUS (the guy who goofed up administering Obama’s January 2009 oath of office) changed the nature of the United States forever in unilaterally declaring the purchase mandate of Obamacare to be a tax and, therefore, legitimate under Congress powers of taxation.

That’s because the congress IS no longer a co-equal branch, as you’ve said. Because Barack has his fifth column media ready to pounce on them at every opportunity. As others have said, this is a vote for incumbency and nothing more. These pathetic, boot-licking, selfish, two-faced legislature are only in it to get reelected so they can keep the gravy train rolling.

Joe Biden holds hands with Mitch McConnell and jumps over the cliff. McConnell didn’t know Harry Reid tied a bungee cord to Bidens waist.
Geithner’s bungee is too short, and he’s going to bounce back and smack the ceiling.
Meanwhile; All taxpayers are put on a shorter leash by the Obama Regime with higher taxes on health care services and devices.
The “service animal” the U.S. Government was supposed to become, has grown into an insatiable beast, since, committees with higher than average intelligence have fed it larger and larger meals to appease its appetite.
Where’s the SPCA? (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Americans).

It is clear that yesterday’s display of “graciousness” from the President was designed to set into play a situation where the overwhelmingly liberal- dominated media could paint the GOP as petulant children, the way Bill Clinton achieved success with his snub of Newt Gingrinch on the plane in 1994-5.

I understand I am at this moment a very small minority, and that the Left will use the sentiment for all the political gain they could, for there is considerable gain to ve had–but the blunt fact is that I honestly don’t think I’m very interested in living in a America dominated by the likes of Barack Obama. I still think we need to think about seperating as a people.

Ah yes, El Presidente on the tube with his rent-a-demographic “audience”. Obama has been successful getting people to focus on the short-term economy, he needed a deal to get unemployment benefits extended.

How many people care about Obama the symbol and not Obama the person? Guess we’ll know in about five years.

And how does a tax bill originate in the Senate, Article 1 section 7? Or did they use a shell bill again to subvert the intent of giving the house taxing powers. I wish we (Cato, heritage, aei) would engage in a little lawfare like the left does. Hit them with their own tactics.

I expect to see several Democrat Senators use the Hillary Clinton defense and claim they received a concussion from the fall, and have headaches and memory loss that’ll require more extensive and expensive therapies, including Botox treatments.

When are you going to realize that the Republican Party isn’t on your side?

Hell, for that matter, the dems want you dead, if possible.

Both sides screw you ove, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, and you think still think that either of them are on your side? Both sides enact laws, on an almost daily basis, taking your freedoms in return for pork and ‘contributions’ and jobs for family members and cronies. You think any of the politicos on either side still care about The Constitution?

Except for a very few individuals, most Republican politicians only care about their own pocketbooks.

One side wants you dead or in prison. Preferably dead. The other side wants your money and your compliance.

Seems like this is becoming a bad habit in Washington. They now tend to pass huge pieces of legislation literally in the dead of night with no public debate and no chance for the American people to even SEE what’s in the legislation. So, according to Nancy Pelosi, you now have to pass it to find out what’s in it. Also, remember that Obamacare was forced through Congress on “reconciliation” during the Christmas holidays when nobody was paying much attention as well. So how much do you want to bet that when they finally have their debt-ceiling vote, it will take place at 3 AM on a Sunday morning and the bill will be passed immediately, without giving the people a chance to read it, let alone have anything to say about it. This is NOT a representative republic. This is No Taxation Without Representation. Hmmm, where have I heard that one before?

POTUS claims he cut spending by $1 Trillion and the sheeples believe it, there are no cuts, reduced rates of increases are not cuts.

Lucy and Charlie Brown all over again, stupid GOP, Lucy pulled the football again.

Leftists cheer their victory and America loses. Will S&P / Fitch have the stones to downgrade our credit rating? They should, with no real spending cuts and not plan to reform entitlements, we will be Greece, it’s just a matter of when?

The GOP could not even get the Wind Credits out of the deal, how about taxing Hollywood instead, those Leftists have been begging for increased taxes, well it is long past time they give up their tax credits. Wind Farms are robbing taxpayers just like solar and other green energy scams.

The GOP and Independents need to start a NATIONWIDE BOYCOTT of paying Federal Taxes until there is a.) a balanced budget, b.) a plan for paying off the debt, c.) a National Economic Policy inline with the constitution, d.) a National Energy Policy, e.) a plan for restructuring the SS and Meidcaid/Medicare issue.

Very Simple and THE ONLY SOLUTION outside a full on revolution. the GOP has let us down (again) and the Dems will never see the light until it is dark.

BOYCOTT FEDERAL TAXES NOW.

The IRS can’t get to all of us. Remember, they are government employees.

Something like that will only work if enough people are willing to do it. Such a thing would have to be really organized & put together by some really strong leaders of a caliber that you’d be willing to have as the new heads of state of a country you’re willing to carve out yourself with like-minded others in numbers large enough to make that proverbial difference.

Deduct as usual and pay into a trust or escrow a/c pending resolution — ideally g’teed by state/city. It’s been done before. The new element may be direct attacks on IRS facilities — they are braced for attack, how well remains to be seen.

I really don’t think any kind of civil war is necessary in order to get away from the progressives. The legal method would be far more affective. Sometimes I think people start dreaming up big wars in order to make what needs to be done seem like a last desperate life-or-death measure in order to be able to kick the can down the road. Or to use the necessity of somebody else’s despicable action in order to get things going because they lack the guts to do it for themselves. As in, “Just you wait, when they come to take my guns there’s going to be war!”

People, succession does not require gunfire. Mostly, it just requires the will . . . and, of course, lawyers. Waiting for “the big event” only ensures that the world we end up inheriting after the utopians have their way (again) is poor, sick, and a dysfunctional mess. Getting out now may or may not seem rash or too early, but it sure beats having to deal with the catastrophe to come.

BTW. For those who missed it, a pretty good article on succession was linked in one of the articles from yesterday. I suggest you all read it: