ok so we all know that unless you are a person of said descent/rapper you can't use the "N" word, that's a given (although even then i think it's a weird thing to do!)

i was on a bus in london and a group of young men of african descent got on and started hassling an older lady trying to get her to move seats, and they were saying "look at that honky white witch" etc etc, i lent over to one and said quietly, "how is that not racist but if she was to call you a colour based name it would be? whats the difference?" he looked surprised and they started trying to explain why it wasn't, with the best line i ever heard, "but i is black so i can't be racist" .... as my stop was coming up i asked on last question "how is it not racist if you are judging her based on the colour of her skin?"

i left it there and they had all gone quiet, as i got off the bus i got a nod and a wink form the conductor.

No, “we” do not all know that, and No, it is not a “given”. Those are assumptions and generalizations – which is one of the problems about racism.

Many (most) people of color do not use the N word, and find it affensive.

I think you handled yourself appropriately on the bus. However, your experience with the young man/men on the bus does not mean all members of his race agree with him. Again - a generalization and a racist stereotype.

As far as some other comments, racism is wrong and it does not "depend on the situation".

I was raised to be very proactive about racism/genderism issues. My grandmother was an airplane mechanic in a regular unit if the Army Air Corps (back before the Air Force officially became a separate entity from the Army). After she retired from military service, she became very involved in racial equality issues. She was an officer in a local chapter of the NAACP. In the deep south. In the 1950's and 60's. I learned from my grandmother and my father that one does not sit idly by while somebody is being mistreated because of race or gender issues, or really any other issue that's not something a person has any choice over. While she may have made some stupid decisions regarding her own personal safety, I learned that it's always okay to stand up for a person being attacked. Sometimes that means standing next to them and confronting a person who's being verbally attacked and sometimes that means calling the police. My father actually sustained some serious injuries after a HS football game when he came to the defense of a kid being attacked because of his race. The small town police tried to charge dad, but his bat-poo crazy mother wasn't scared of anybody and ripped open the good ole boys network and got the other kids charged instead. This is the history we feel like we have to live up to.

My mother's FOO, on the other hand, is very racist. Mom tries hard to overcome some very deep-seeded "lessons" she learned as a kid, but it hasn't always been easy.

If I'm faced with a situation like this, I will never hesitate to tell the offending person that their behavior is not okay. When I worked restaurant management, I would not hesitate to kick out offensive customers. I will not hesitate to call the police if I feel that somebody's physical safety is endangered. I will also not hesitate to involve myself physically if I feel that somebody's life is in danger and the police can't get there fast enough.

Logged

Some people lift weights. I lift measures. It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)

I don't think that's what posters are meaning by "depends on the situation." Yes, it's always wrong, but the situation dictates how they'd deal with it.

Yes, racism/bigotry is always wrong but it would also be wrong (not to mention ridiculous) to treat my 90 year old aunt, bedridden and on oxygen, the same as a beer-swilling hooligan yelling epithets in a parking lot.

I was raised to be very proactive about racism/genderism issues. My grandmother was an airplane mechanic in a regular unit if the Army Air Corps (back before the Air Force officially became a separate entity from the Army). After she retired from military service, she became very involved in racial equality issues. She was an officer in a local chapter of the NAACP. In the deep south. In the 1950's and 60's. I learned from my grandmother and my father that one does not sit idly by while somebody is being mistreated because of race or gender issues, or really any other issue that's not something a person has any choice over. While she may have made some stupid decisions regarding her own personal safety, I learned that it's always okay to stand up for a person being attacked. Sometimes that means standing next to them and confronting a person who's being verbally attacked and sometimes that means calling the police. My father actually sustained some serious injuries after a HS football game when he came to the defense of a kid being attacked because of his race. The small town police tried to charge dad, but his bat-poo crazy mother wasn't scared of anybody and ripped open the good ole boys network and got the other kids charged instead. This is the history we feel like we have to live up to.

My mother's FOO, on the other hand, is very racist. Mom tries hard to overcome some very deep-seeded "lessons" she learned as a kid, but it hasn't always been easy.

If I'm faced with a situation like this, I will never hesitate to tell the offending person that their behavior is not okay. When I worked restaurant management, I would not hesitate to kick out offensive customers. I will not hesitate to call the police if I feel that somebody's physical safety is endangered. I will also not hesitate to involve myself physically if I feel that somebody's life is in danger and the police can't get there fast enough.

OT, but what's FOO?

Oh, and your paternal grandmother absolutely rocks. Your father was really fortunate to have a mother like her.

And yes, my grandmother was an incredible woman. She wasn't a very nice person, but considering what positions she placed herself in, she kinda had to be that way. She was very harsh, but she couldn't have been any other way to knock down gender and racial barriers the way she did.

Logged

Some people lift weights. I lift measures. It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)

My favorite tactic, when someone offers a 'isn't that racial group awful' sort of insult, is to look puzzled, then let the lightbulb go on, and say, 'OH! You said that to me because you think I'm white! People assume that all the time, because I look sort of white.' Then I bean dip as hard and fast as I can.

ok so we all know that unless you are a person of said descent/rapper you can't use the "N" word, that's a given (although even then i think it's a weird thing to do!)

i was on a bus in london and a group of young men of african descent got on and started hassling an older lady trying to get her to move seats, and they were saying "look at that honky white witch" etc etc, i lent over to one and said quietly, "how is that not racist but if she was to call you a colour based name it would be? whats the difference?" he looked surprised and they started trying to explain why it wasn't, with the best line i ever heard, "but i is black so i can't be racist" .... as my stop was coming up i asked on last question "how is it not racist if you are judging her based on the colour of her skin?"

i left it there and they had all gone quiet, as i got off the bus i got a nod and a wink form the conductor.

No, “we” do not all know that, and No, it is not a “given”. Those are assumptions and generalizations – which is one of the problems about racism.

Many (most) people of color do not use the N word, and find it affensive.

I think you handled yourself appropriately on the bus. However, your experience with the young man/men on the bus does not mean all members of his race agree with him. Again - a generalization and a racist stereotype.

As far as some other comments, racism is wrong and it does not "depend on the situation".

Really? so you would use it? because unless you want to get your butt kicked no-one of european/asian/other origin (unless doing it in a racist fashion) uses that word wherever i've lived, and thats up and down the UK and across Australia.

i said it was a given as i feel that unless you are of a race ie from pakistan, you don't use the derogatory term - (in the UK "paki" is offensive, however i have friends from there who are using it in a "we is paki's" way, trying to reclaim it, turning it into an identity thing rather than a nasty term.)

i never said that all do act like or agree with him, i was sharing one of my experiences where i witnessed racism and acted.

i don't see how i stereotyped, i spoke having witnessed different situations and having been involved. black, white, yellow or green with pink polka dots, doesn't matter, you treat everyone equally.

would you have commented if i said i saw an elderly African lady being harassed by white youths and spoke to them?

OP here, please try and remember we're not looking at what constitutes as racist. That's a topic for somewhere else and could get the thread locked.

I agree though, there is a difference how'd you'd react to a stranger as opposed to a family member. Has anyone seen the film Giant? It'a very interesting to the changing attitudes if the main character towards the Hispanic community.

nayberry - 1) I don't know any green with polka dot people. If you do, and treat them equally, that's commendable.2) You do not know what race I am, and you do not know whether I would be the butt kicker or the kickee or even if any butt kicking would take place.3) Your last question is , well, never mind.

But, as I said before, "we" don't know any such thing (re: what you said) and no, it is NOT a given.

OP here, please try and remember we're not looking at what constitutes as racist. That's a topic for somewhere else and could get the thread locked.

I agree though, there is a difference how'd you'd react to a stranger as opposed to a family member. Has anyone seen the film Giant? It'a very interesting to the changing attitudes if the main character towards the Hispanic community.

Yes, great movie (Liz Taylor, Rock Hudson, James Dean). And you are right on target.

And I understand we are not trying to determine what is racist. Most people already know - and if they don't they should.

The situation the OP is referring to have been very much in the news media here (Aus) lately. The specific ones I recall have occurred on public transport, where somebody has attacked somebody else of a different race, a total stranger, with loud, aggressive and very racist language, in rants loaded with f-bombs. Some people have joined in, some have tried to defend the victim, and in each case somebody has recorded the attack on their phone and gone public with it.