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Apparently there is even a teenage counter-culture even in paintball. So a culture (paintball) formed inside of a larger culture (whatever you call ours) still produces a counter-culture. So if this keeps up then that means there will be a counter-counter-culture. This is like inception but with paintball cultures. I wonder how bad it can get. Although the way I see it is eventually they will learn how to appreciate the classics when they are older. Lets just carry the torch.

Apparently there is even a teenage counter-culture even in paintball. So a culture (paintball) formed inside of a larger culture (whatever you call ours) still produces a counter-culture. So if this keeps up then that means there will be a counter-counter-culture. This is like inception but with paintball cultures. I wonder how bad it can get. Although the way I see it is eventually they will learn how to appreciate the classics when they are older. Lets just carry the torch.

Probably confused you.....I will just leave this thread.

agreed

and woodsball players always seem to get super super defensive about it. i can't figure out why. we were staging with tyger at living legends 2 or 3, must have been three, anyway, at one point he starting making snarky comments about the pro guys who come out and play these kind of events, i don't even remember who they were, but he is all getting pissy "eh we don't care about them ... bout time they came back to play real paintball ... why are we supposed to look up to them ... " and a bunch of other stuff. now, anyone who knows me or my internet ramblings on the topic of national speed/x ball events knows im not a huge fan, but wow tyger was annoying me so much about it i told him to shut up, quit complaining, and go play paintball.

who seriously gives a rats ass? just play paintball

they are like woodsball martyrs, like the ever so annoying pump martyrs.

NPPL:

Woodsball:

come at me bro

"because every vengeful cop with a lesbian daughter, is having a bad day, and looking for someone to blame"

I love both games. The only time I ever have an issue is when the fields don't break up the groups. Nothing more annoying in speedball then trying to lead a group of new players against an experienced team that is just out there practicing. Nothing more annoying in woodsball then having a bunch of regulars who know the terrain (the single biggest advantage you can have in the woods) playing against newer and first time players.

It's bad for the game. But I digress. Please return this thread to its originally scheduled topic.

Thanks for the news. I'm going to have to disagree with you though. In speedball I know where all of my opponents are for the majority of the very short game. In the woods I can go minutes at a time not knowing where the other guys or even my teammates are. Games can last absurdly long if there isn't a time limit. In the woods I'm judicious about making my presence known. In speedball I rely on being fast and keeping the right heads down at the right time by shooting, knowing the angles.

Yes, they are both paintball and many of the fundamentals are the same. But saying they are the same game is overstating the similarity IMO.

Thanks for the news. I'm going to have to disagree with you though. In speedball I know where all of my opponents are for the majority of the very short game. In the woods I can go minutes at a time not knowing where the other guys or even my teammates are. Games can last absurdly long if there isn't a time limit. In the woods I'm judicious about making my presence known. In speedball I rely on being fast and keeping the right heads down at the right time by shooting, knowing the angles.

Yes, they are both paintball and many of the fundamentals are the same. But saying they are the same game is overstating the similarity IMO.

Agreed.

It's like comparing cricket to baseball. Just because you have some of the same tools does not mean you're playing the same game; a different field and different rules make it a different game.

Thanks for the news. I'm going to have to disagree with you though. In speedball I know where all of my opponents are for the majority of the very short game. In the woods I can go minutes at a time not knowing where the other guys or even my teammates are. Games can last absurdly long if there isn't a time limit. In the woods I'm judicious about making my presence known. In speedball I rely on being fast and keeping the right heads down at the right time by shooting, knowing the angles.

Yes, they are both paintball and many of the fundamentals are the same. But saying they are the same game is overstating the similarity IMO.

they are the same, and the faster paintball figures this out, the better it will be for all of us.

It is all paintball. But it is not the same game. Totally different style of play and normally tactics. I will play both. But! They are not the same. Players should not bash either though. As they are both a legitimate style of paintball.

In a big woods ball game 300 rounds would be a lot of paint shot to me. And my team better win and the game probably took 30 minutes or longer with me in all the way through unless I took a strategic kill shot. In speedball 300 rounds could be just a few minutes of game play. In the past when I was 20 speedball was all I would play. Unless a church group showed up. Then it was normally the 6-10 regular players against the 50+ group in the woods. And we dialed our fire back. But played with a combined strategy. So although it is all paintball. They are 2 totally different styles of play.

Fundamentals stay the same. Opposing teams shoot at each other with paintballs. People change things up so it doesn't get boring or routine, but we still end up shooting each other in the end.

Woodsball got boring, and people in the industry wanted growth. It went from plenty of time to shoot a guy hiding behind a tree to less time shooting a guy hiding behind a balloon or tire. Either way, regardless of the color of my attire, Im still here to shoot a paintball or two at the other fellow.

Fundamentals stay the same. Opposing teams shoot at each other with paintballs. People change things up so it doesn't get boring or routine, but we still end up shooting each other in the end.

Woodsball got boring, and people in the industry wanted growth. It went from plenty of time to shoot a guy hiding behind a tree to less time shooting a guy hiding behind a balloon or tire. Either way, regardless of the color of my attire, Im still here to shoot a paintball or two at the other fellow.

it really is that simple. you get the angles, you got the shots, you win.

it really is that simple. you get the angles, you got the shots, you win.

Agreed. But the scenario building up to that can be massively different between the two formats. Last time I played woodsball it was 15 v 15 on big "field" From the start I bolted up the left tapeline. I was applying a speedball tactic to woodsball. The results were completely different. I speedball I would have maybe made it to the 50 if I got good support and a little luck. In the woods we were out of visual range so none of the other team even knew what I was doing let alone shot at me. I only encountered one of them on my way to the back tapeline. Quick exchange of fire and I was completely behind them. I got two surrenders and took out two more before being shot out by one of my teammates.

That scenario is impossible in speedball. I understand where you guys are coming from. I think you are correct in the micro and wrong in the macro. Fry's example of Cricket/Baseball is perfect IMO.

you do the exact same thing in speedball. get the angles, get the kills, win the game.

I understand what you are saying, but there is a significant difference. There is no way I could have moved undetected from one tapeline to the other in speedball. I realize that we simply aren't going to agree on this. By your standard, basketball played in the woods is the same game as basketball played on hardwood. Get the angles, get the baskets, win the game.

There is no way I could have moved undetected from one tapeline to the other in speedball. I realize that we simply aren't going to agree on this.

since you are stating blatant falsehoods ... idk what to say. i've sat in the other teams back corner and proceeded to gun down there entire team on a speedball field. and probably more times then i have done the same thing in the woods ....

since you are stating blatant falsehoods ... idk what to say. i've sat in the other teams back corner and proceeded to gun down there entire team on a speedball field. and probably more times then i have done the same thing in the woods ....

Shooting them in the back, from cover, is quite possibly the best angle. Yes, I think so.

? I'm not sure there is a good reason for you to act like a dink but it certainly doesn't help your case. You and I disagree. I've made the same move in speedball as well, in fact in my very first game. But I've never done it without being seen. Rather than start comparing barrel lengths I think I'll just be through with this conversation.

? I'm not sure there is a good reason for you to act like a dink but it certainly doesn't help your case. You and I disagree. I've made the same move in speedball as well, in fact in my very first game. But I've never done it without being seen. Rather than start comparing barrel lengths I think I'll just be through with this conversation.

so what you previously stated was impossible, you now admit you have done?

Originally Posted by pgop2.0

Quick exchange of fire and I was completely behind them. I got two surrenders and took out two more before being shot out by one of my teammates.

Okay hold up. I see where cockerpunk is coming from with this. In a large general basis yes they are the same game. You have a marker run off pressure, a gelatin capsule called a paintball falls into a chamber, pressure launches the paintball out and it breaks upon impact, hopefully on your target. The person notices he got hit and goes out. That is a game called paintball. They both have the same equipment and surround a general basis of ideas or a mentality but if your are a part of it then you see a huge difference and they seem almost completely different. If you participate in it then it eventually comes out to you that they are in fact not the same game and have to many different and opposite fundamentals to be viewed as the same thing. If you don't understand what I am saying then lets take it to a larger scale more real world example. Relgion. To somebody like me (Atheist, just my personal beliefs) I may see that most religions are just about the same to me, specifically the larger monotheistic ones. Christianity, Judaism, Islam. Now if I was short minded and was not raised catholic I may see them as just about the same thing, look at it from a third persons point of view as if they have no clue what they are. They all seem to worship the same god. They all seem to have similar beliefs, same morals. So aren't they all the same? How are they not? They all have the same beliefs and morals don't they?

Now that was me playing semi-stupid. Do you see where I am coming from? To somebody who does not know anything about paintball, and in my example religion. They might view them as just about the same thing and put them on the same shelf. But if you are an active participant then it is a complete different mentality. You see those differences and they mean the world to you and sometimes you cant see how you can co-exist with these other people. If you take part in one of those then eventually you see that you and this other "version" of you seem to be completely different except for the fact that you both play paintball or you both believe in a god.

Sorry if I somehow offended anybodies religion,beliefs, faith etc. Just wanted to make an understandable point. Not trying to switch the discussion to religion but I simply found it as a good example.

so what you previously stated was impossible, you now admit you have done?

I don't know if you are selectively reading or just selectively quoting me. My point was that the entire scenario wouldn't happen if moved from the woods onto a speedball field. "But nobody plays 15 on 15 speedball" - Exactly. Unless you are going to tell me that you play 15 on 15 and break to the back tape all the time. In that case I differ to your superior experience.

This is all beside the point. You say it's a distinction without a difference. I say that there is a difference and that difference is enough to justify calling it a different game. We are not going to agree on this and I'm ok with that. I would also qualify 3 man, 5 man, and 7 man as different games. The playing experience is sufficiently different (in my opinion) to validate that.

My question is this this; why does it matter so much to you? Why do you think that we would benefit from not making the distinction? Serious question.

I don't know if you are selectively reading or just selectively quoting me. My point was that the entire scenario wouldn't happen if moved from the woods onto a speedball field. "But nobody plays 15 on 15 speedball" - Exactly. Unless you are going to tell me that you play 15 on 15 and break to the back tape all the time. In that case I differ to your superior experience.

This is all beside the point. You say it's a distinction without a difference. I say that there is a difference and that difference is enough to justify calling it a different game. We are not going to agree on this and I'm ok with that. I would also qualify 3 man, 5 man, and 7 man as different games. The playing experience is sufficiently different (in my opinion) to validate that.

My question is this this; why does it matter so much to you? Why do you think that we would benefit from not making the distinction? Serious question.

people don't play 15 on 15 speedball?

because how we define the paradigm of our game/sport defines the conversation and opinions about it. if we define ourselves as one game, with different fields that changes paintball on a very fundamental level vs defining ourselves as two different games with similar equipment.

it took 10 years for us to redefine a paintball gun as just a paintball gun, not a woodsball gun and a speedball gun for example.