Mountain Goat: [?] . The mountain goat lives in rocky mountainous areas above the timberline throughout parts of North America. British Columbia's population is by far the largest at approximately 100,000. [M | C]

Please be advised that we are currently having problems with some of our users not being able to log into the site. We apologize for this, we are working to address the situation. Thank you for your patience

Under what circumstances would you, as an experienced cacher, EVER knowingly move a cache from where you found it?. If you think you may want to move it and there is no immediate threat to a cache seekers life or risk of injury, should you contact the cache owner first, advise them of your concerns, and then ask them to move the cache to a more appropriate location? To possible match the difficulty rating.

Under what circumstances would you, as an experienced cacher, EVER knowingly move a cache from where you found it?. If you think you may want to move it and there is no immediate threat to a cache seekers life or risk of injury, should you contact the cache owner first, advise them of your concerns, and then ask them to move the cache to a more appropriate location? To possible match the difficulty rating.

Contacting the cache owner would be the right thing to do before taking it upon yourself to move someones hide.

Under what circumstances would you, as an experienced cacher, EVER knowingly move a cache from where you found it?. If you think you may want to move it and there is no immediate threat to a cache seekers life or risk of injury, should you contact the cache owner first, advise them of your concerns, and then ask them to move the cache to a more appropriate location? To possible match the difficulty rating.

Contacting the cache owner would be the right thing to do before taking it upon yourself to move someones hide.

No that (I think ) I know what you mean, I agree with titelines that it would be appropriate to contact the owner.

I've seen a cache in a tree rated for high difficulty but low (1) terrain, sometimes they don't make sense.

This is a tricky question. In my opinion the short answer is no. Geocachers should not move a geocache without prior permission from the cache owner.

Having said that, there may be extreme circumstances where it might be an idea for the cache to be moved. Such a case would be imminent danger to the cache itself. If the cache is ready to float down a river and become geo trash in the Pacific ocean, then yes, I would move the cache to somewhere close but in a safer location. I'd include it in my log and a note to the cache owner for the reasons. There have been times where geocachers found my caches out in the open. And I thanked them for hiding it to the best of their ability in a place where they thought the cache was intended.

Another extreme example is when future finders are in imminent danger. There have been a few cases around Vancouver where a geocache was hidden in a park strewn with discarded drug needles. I recall the first person on the scene posted a public note respectfully asking future finders to be very careful or simply avoid the area. The reason why was given. A note was sent to the CO asking that they rethink the hide. This is one occasion where I believe the well-written public note was not just necessary but prudent. I don't believe the cache owner intended anyone to be pricked with a used needle. And in that historic case, the cache was apparently an easy find so removing it would have made the situation worse.

In all but the most extreme cases, I believe a private note to the cache owner is the best course of action. If it is an environmental issue, the cache finders shouldn't be bushwhacking for the cache in the first place. It's not prudent to write a log to the likes of "FTF at Midnight but this cache is bad because I trashed the area." Yes, there have been people that actually wrote found logs like that. It's in these cases where the finder is more of the problem than the cache owner. It's my belief that we should question the responsibility of geocachers whos outrage comes after the smiley as anyone who feels uncomfortable finding a cache due to environmental concerns should not be looking for it in sensitive areas in the first place.

OK, so I made a short answer long -- again. **lol** There will always be exceptions and that will simply have to be up to the finder's discretion. But the general rule of thumb is to replace a cache as found unless you are absolutely 100% certain it is not where the cache owner intended (hint says crotch of tree but you find it sitting in the grass) or the cache itself is in imminent danger.

Generally I would give an emphatic NO to relocating a cache. I believe I know the cache in question and there were notes that perhaps the cache had slipped further in than intended. There were also some notes that raised concerns about severe damage to a natural structure that would be inevitable if the cache remained where it was (not everyone carries a ladder as part of their caching equipment). I have not been there but it sounds from the notes that the cache was moved slightly yet preserved the spirit of the placement.

This seems to be a case of a brand new cacher not thinking through the effect that searchers would have on the natural surroundings. This cacher had 7 finds in 2 days of caching before placing this cache.

Yes, this is a perfect opportunity to reach out to a new cacher to help educate them about good caching practices. The notes say that the cacher was notified, I don't know the outcome of that.

The other alternative would have been to contact the reviewer to have the cache immediately disabled or archived which is hardly a positive move.

Ive only been struck with the inkling to relocate a cache just once (ok, let's ignore all the LPC's that Ive pondered for now! :P)

A cache that was designed to be in a somewhat hostile environment was semi-submerged in a huge puddle, thankfully the excavator that was parked a few feet from it had it's bucket placed within arms reach of the cache's hide, which let me keep my feet dry when recovering (!).

I posted a relatively broad photo of the GZ showing the excavator & indicated that I feared for the cache's life (the hide was in the shot (sort of) but I didnt really jeopardize it). The CO responded quickly & rescued their cache themselves. Had they not have, at leaset they woudl have known how it met it's demise!

Ive found a few that were in places that didnt match up with what cache pages, hints, or coords (!) described, but always put it back where i found it & left a log that reflected that the current hide location may have become disconnected from the original one.

Beyond that one case, never really felt any caches needed to be moved.

If you need a ladder to reach a terrain 2 cache that is in a stump that is crumbling, then the cache needs to be moved.

If that same cache had a higher terrain rating, a note that a ladder or climbing is necessary in retrieving the cache and no environmental damage would be sustained in finding that cache, then leave it EXACTLY how you found it.

I've been to many caches where the terrain difficulty differs from my own personal vision of it...But other than it involving wheelchair access I have no issues there..In my opinion...NO ONE has the right to remove, relocate or replace a cache without the CO approval. If a personal message to CO has been ignored then the next step should be to the reviewer...If we all take it upon ourselves to decide where and what we (our personal take on each cache) think is best...who knows where all our caches may be relocated....I think this topic is very valid and some conclusions need to be made. Also, as a side issue...if one found a cache that they felt inappropriate in ANY WAY...they should not log it as a find...loggin it as a find means you agree with the placement and accept everything about the cache. How could anyone log a find and then relocate it?

In this particular case, serious environmental impact was mitigated by shifting a cache about 20cm. In my opinion, that makes it worthwhile.

I suppose no one has the right to perform cache maintenance on other peoples' caches either, but yet I've seen helpful cachers do it all the time. we've replaced wet logbooks, and many people wipe out wet containers etc. I know it is not our responsibility, but as a community we should always be on the lookout for ways to support each other and improve the geocaching experience for others. We should also mentor our new cachers who appreciate experts helping them out. We were all new geocachers at one time.

In my opinion, signing the logbook means you've found the cache, not a tacit agreement that you "accept everything about the cache". I've found wet caches full of broken toys. I certainly do not find that acceptable, but I sign the log for sure. Then I clean up the cache and replace the junk.

A couple of times, I have found a cache in a place that is obviously not the original hiding place. I have relocated it to the place that the page and clue makes obvious.
Once was a cache with the clue "in elbow of maple" that I found on the ground, the other was one with the clue "behind stump" and it was 20 feet from the stump.

I was only asking this for advice. I found a cache in Alaska, and while signing the log book a group of teens arrived at the park. I tried to out wait them for about 15 minutes, NOT long I know... but, I had a cruise ship to catch. It was an awkward cache to retrieve so I would definately have been seen. So instead of putting the cache back in it's original location. I moved it to a safe location for the time being. I immediately e-mailed the CO, the instance I was back on the ship. I included the proper cords and complete discription of the temporary hidey spot. But the cache has since gone missing. I asume the CO is not a local. I guess I just wanted forgiveness from the cacheing GODS and to clear my concience. But thanks to all for the interesting replys.

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forumYou cannot attach files in this forumYou cannot download files in this forum