Kouros and Orange Spice

I can't imagine that this hasn't been discussed here but I could not find anything on it. Sorry if I am starting a rehash. I just got a sample vial of Orange Spice and to me it is remarkably like Kouros. Any comments on similarities and/or differences? Thanks in advance.

Bill

I have read in Plato and Cicero sayings that are wise and very beautiful; but I have never read in either of them: Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden.'' --Saint Augustine

“Hastiness and superficiality are the psychic diseases of the twentieth century, and more than anywhere else this disease is reflected in the press.”--Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

I've gone back and forth between which I like better. Sometimes it's Kouros because of the rawness and unrefined hints in it, but sometimes it's the ethereal grace of the ghostly neroli (I think it's neroli) in Orange Spice.

They are very like, but there are also huge differences in how they feel. Kouros is very elegant, I believe, despite its monster reputation, but it is a blunt and forceful instrument. There are many many things going on in the smell of Kouros--more than in Orange Spice--but they're harder to find and take some patient seeking and learning.

Orange spice seems to me to have fewer things going on, but great things all the same. Orange Spice is sort of like a curtain behind you and Kouros is a searchlight blasting out of you.

As similar as they are, I don't think one leads a user to the other, and I even suspect that it would make sense to own both (as indulgent as that would be).

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

I have worn Kouros since 1988. My GF at the time used to spray it all over me at the perfume counters because she loved it. I'm going to go out this weekend and test some on my skin to see if I like it.

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Inititally there's a mild congruence, but that's short-lived. One obvious difference is that Kouros is a foug&#232;re and Orange Spice is a soft oriental. Another monumental difference is that Kouros is built on a massive framework (probably one of the largest in perfumery) while Orange Spice is built on an itsy bitsy teeny tiny one and, like many Creeds, generally just poops out without much interest beyond the first forty-five minutes or so.

Kouros (Bourdon's masterpiece) is just out of f*cking sight, and for those who haven't figured it out, it is meant to be worn underneath your shirt and on your clothes. The same goes for many fragrances. Spraying it on your wrists and all that other girly stuff isn't the way to do it.

I also found out that the info about Bourdon being inspired by Orange Spice (which is included in my original review of Orange Spice) is a total load of BS.

Last edited by pluran; 22nd February 2008 at 04:17 AM.
Reason: spelling due to lack of sleep

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Originally Posted by pluran

Inititally there's a mild congruence, but that's short-lived. One obvious difference is that Kouros is a fougčre and Orange Spice is a soft oriental. Another monumental difference is that Kouros is built on a massive framework (probably one of the largest in perfumery) while Orange Spice is built on an itsy bitsy teeny tiny one and, like many Creeds, generally just poops out without much interest beyond the first forty-five minutes or so.

I wonder if thats also your opinion of many Ellena fragrances, which maybe use 8 ingredients at most and have a natural albeit sparse framework.

I don't know about the Bourdon being inspired by Orange Spice rumors but I would like to know where and by whom it was refuted or confirmed.

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Pierre Bourdon copied Green Irish Tweed (Cool Water) as well as Orange Spice (Kouros) so that the average Joe on a budget could smell like a million bucks too.

My nose says 'no!' in both cases. But maybe you can substantiate your allegation to be a little more convincing? Creed are always rather secretive about actual ingredients used.

There is a difference between copies and forward developments. All art, science, and business progresses that way! GIT and Cool Water are both popular fragrances, and have strong legs of their own. Cool Water, has been acknowledged by experts as the quintessential aqua, or one that other aquatic fragrances were based upon. The French Associataion of Perfumers celebrated P. Bourdon as an innovator, not top copier if I remember correctly. The idea that Yves SL and Bourdon would have felt inspired to come up with nothing better than a citrus (again) is simply absurd. No one put them under pressure either.1950 and 1980 - that were two different generations, in fact different epochs altogether in Europe's fashion and perfume world (except for Creed maybe)! Orange Spice must have been too old a hat to copy for the eighties .

Michael Edwards describes Orange Spice (soft oriental, unisex) as follows: "Spicy and fruity with delicious orange. Aromatic, fresh, mysterious and spicy with a powdery dry down, for those who appreciate a long lasting citrus." I have nothing to add or take away from that. A fine, orange fragrance indeed, slightly spicy, and quite powdery. The same author describes Kouros, 'a chypre, spicy harmony' with similar precision: "The fragrance of the triumphant masculinity: a divine and conquering fragrance for a powerful and intense scent."

How is it possible that men in the whole world (not just freaks) still speak of, and buy Kouros while only a fraction of afficionados know of Orange Spice?

"Basenotes says:Creed say that this fragrance is enjoyed by Michael Jackson..."

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Originally Posted by samplermike

Pierre Bourdon copied Green Irish Tweed (Cool Water) as well as Orange Spice (Kouros) so that the average Joe on a budget could smell like a million bucks too.

cool water and green irish tweed are similar in that i think they're booth poor fragrances. i wouldn't shame the masterpeice that is kouros (i appreciate it without wearing it) by comparing it to orange spice.

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

both are fantastic...Kouros was one of my first fragrances. It will always be a classic. Don&#180;t matter what other Basenoters writes (piss and so on)...I would never come to this...some crazy noses out there or bad skin chemstry

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Originally Posted by samplermike

Err, umm, Green Irish Tweed was originally commissioned for King Alfonso XIII of Spain in 1901 and released commercially to the public in 1985. Nice try though...

What absolute nonsense! It's hilarious that now Green Irish Tweed is being credited to some king. I always heard that it was made for Cary Grant. Recently, though, I think I read a post claiming it is Selection Verte that was made for Cary Grant. But then, how many times in the past have I heard that Selection Verte was actually made for Napoleon and then for Sigmund Freud? If the Creed public relations department is going to propagate this nonsense, then they should at least get their stories straight.

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

My nose says 'no!' in both cases. But maybe you can substantiate your allegation to be a little more convincing? Creed are always rather secretive about actual ingredients used.

There is a difference between copies and forward developments. All art, science, and business progresses that way! GIT and Cool Water are both popular fragrances, and have strong legs of their own. Cool Water, has been acknowledged by experts as the quintessential aqua, or one that other aquatic fragrances were based upon. The French Associataion of Perfumers celebrated P. Bourdon as an innovator, not top copier if I remember correctly. The idea that Yves SL and Bourdon would have felt inspired to come up with nothing better than a citrus (again) is simply absurd. No one put them under pressure either.1950 and 1980 - that were two different generation, in fact different epochs altogether in Europe's fashion and perfume world (except for Creed maybe)! Orange Spice must have been too old a hat to copy for the eighties .

Michael Edwards describes Orange Spice (soft oriental, unisex) as follows: "Spicy and fruity with delicious orange. Aromatic, fresh, mysterious and spicy with a powdery dry down, for those who appreciate a long lasting citrus." I have nothing to add or take away from that. A fine, orange fragrance indeed, slightly spicy, and a quite powdery. The same author describes Kouros, 'a chypre, spicy harmony' with similar precision: "The fragrance of the triumphant masculinity: a divine and conquering fragrance for a powerful and intense scent."

How is it possible that men in the whole world (not just freaks) still speak of, and buy Kouros while only a fraction of afficionados know of Orange Spice?

"Basenotes says:Creed say that this fragrance is enjoyed by Michael Jackson..."

Don't know about the Kouros/Orange Spice "official connection" but for what its worth, even Luca Turin says that Cool Water is strongly inspired by GIT (Parfums Le Guide: 1994, page 21 and page 33)...in that same guide he has very positive reviews of GIT and Erolfa.

As to why more people know about Kouros? Perhaps the fact that Creed is a tiny company and until the early 2000s had very limited distribution has to do with it? Cool Water is also known to more people than GIT but to my nose there is no way its better than GIT.

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Originally Posted by Rockford

What absolute nonsense! It's hilarious that now Green Irish Tweed is being credited to some king. I always heard that it was made for Cary Grant. Recently, though, I think I read a post claiming it is Selection Verte that was made for Cary Grant. But then, how many times in the past have I heard that Selection Verte was actually made for Napoleon and then for Sigmund Freud? If the Creed public relations department is going to propagate this nonsense, then they should at least get their stories straight.

If they were wrong they would have been sued by the estate of Cary Grant and Sigmund Freud. I want to see an article showing this was the case and how the claim was settled.

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Gents, this thread is about similarities and dissimilarities between specific products by YSL and Creed. I'd appreciate it if the discussion could continue about those two scents and what they are AS scents. I'd rather the discussion not become Creed promotions and sales methods.

Re: Kouros and Orange Spice

Originally Posted by chad278

cool water and green irish tweed are similar in that i think they're booth poor fragrances. i wouldn't shame the masterpeice that is kouros (i appreciate it without wearing it) by comparing it to orange spice.

I remember a joke in the 80's heyday of Kouros: what's the difference between a man and a pig? Answer: A pig doesn't smell like a man when wearing Kouros. I'm sure what people are now smelling/enjoying is a reformulation of Kouros. It sure did smell like piss in the 80's from what my friends and I remember. Bourdon just cleaned it up a bit to cater to the mass market and enjoy an early retirement. Now it really smells like a ripoff of Orange Spice.