http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff?
Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take contrary
positions to the rest of the members and side with big brother and encourage
the feds to

I don't know Mark, why don't you go do something about it.
George
Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff?
Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take contrary

Sheesh.Here we go again.
WISPA needs a Prescription plan with automatic renewals and 24 hour
nursing so members will take their medication on time.
Also looks like WISPA needs to fire that new Crystal Ball Reader they
just hired. Another attack on the industry just got by us

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff?
Personally, I'm counting on it, so I can get the company to buy me that
multi-terabyte NAS I've always wanted. I'm running out of disk space at
home to store all my pr0n.
David Smith
MVN.net
--
WISPA

I wouldn't imagine that this responsibility would fall on us WISPs, but to
our upstream providers like BellSouth...etc. Why would they want to deal
with the 20,000 piss ants of the world when all they have to do is back up
stream two hops and catch all the traffic? Common sense tells me this will

Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the last mile
provider to log it all, so as to bankrupt the competition.
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast

DANG MAN!!
I can't believe the board is paying for a Tarot card reader - - is she
still alive? Or do y'all consult her from the grave? I ask this because if
you are consulting her from the grave you better be careful as George Carlin
was showing up here a while back in place of our dead Tarot

You have enough clients that it would bankrupt you to build a server to log
your HTTP SMTP traffic? I don't think it would be that difficult or
expensive, but agree that it would be a major PITA! I am pretty sure we will
never be faced with this as the majority of us aren't reliable enough to

Because Im personna non grata with WISPA and Part-15.
I don't share the same political goals, and as such, I'm not in any
position to do squat.
After being threatened by both WISPA people and Part-15 people, being told
to shut up and go away, I don't figure I have much influence around either

I doubt that my upstream provider has any records of my customer IP
assignments, so it is my belief that any records keeping and logging
would fall on me. I'm not big but I do NOT consider my operation as
being run by piss ants either.
Do you consider the majority of WISP's to be run by piss

Mark
I didn't realize you were persona non grata with wispa. It's the first
that I have heard this.
I do think that you do have a radical political belief and I think that
the wireless lists are generally not interested in discussing politics
because it is so divisive.
But, if you or any

I was assuming the same thing. I thought that European isps were already
required to do this.
George
Mac Dearman wrote:
I wouldn't imagine that this responsibility would fall on us WISPs, but to
our upstream providers like BellSouth...etc. Why would they want to deal
with the 20,000 piss ants

Just try and imagine how much storage you would require for 2 years
worth of traffic. Guys are joking about it being good so they can get
the Terabyte server they always wanted. How about when they have to
buy 50 of them?
Also consider the task of assigning IP addresses and maintaining that

If/when the feds require it, I guess the way to do it would be to run
Ethereal in fully promiscuous mode on a mirrored port on a switch and
streaming it to server over the FBI's T1 to their server. When the
Federal government installs their T1 to my NOC, I would be willing to
upload it to them

Lonnie,
When I used the term piss ant it was referring to the working guys of
this business. We all know how the ants work :-) doggedly for a small
portion of the whole.
Once again, I think its ridiculous to even think that the Feds would allow
us - or put on us - - the responsibility of

It may seem like a 'no brainer' to you, but since when did an idea being
brain-dead-stupid stop the government from trying or actually enforcing it?
There is one common thread that runs through all things government does when
it is seeking to help the common folk - a complete and total lack of

It may seem like a 'no brainer' to you, but since when did an idea being
brain-dead-stupid stop the government from trying or actually enforcing
it?
There is one common thread that runs through all things government does
when
it is seeking to help the common folk - a complete and total lack

The problem here Mac is that for the bells to be able to provide the
information to the FBI they are going to have to be able to tie that IP
address to an individual (your customer) so in the best case scenario
you will have to keep track of what IP is mapped to which customer for
any given

Hi Paul,
With Nstreme, at least as I use it with polling, there is not a way to see
retransmits. I mentioned this in my previous post:
You can quantify the number of retransmits on a per-client basis in
Mikrotik
APs operating in 802.11a/b/g mode (but not Nstreme) by going to
Wireless -

Pete is right, there is no way that historical information will pass
evidence requirements which makes it pointless once the first case is tried.
I'll go further though and say that it won't pass it's first
constitutional challenge. It would be one thing to say we have to keep
records of

On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff?
Why aren't YOU doing something about it?
Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take
contrary positions to the rest of the members and side with big
Hmmm, it

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the
last mile provider to log it all, so as to bankrupt the
competition.
Common sense tells ME that if it were going to affect ME, to the
point of bankrupcy, the I would be doing

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Because Im personna non grata with WISPA and Part-15.
Perhaps it's your winning personality? I don't know...maybe it's
something else.
I don't share the same political goals, and as such, I'm not in any
position to do squat.
You don't have a

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
I'm not big but I do NOT consider my operation as being run by piss
ants either.
Do you consider the majority of WISP's to be run by piss ants and
not worthy of any recognition and responsibility? I sincerely hope
not because I have no desire to

The problem with all of this is that most ISP's wireless or land line
historically do not get involved in a trade association and work
together for the common good.
Land line ISP's didn't join together and wisps are not joining together
either.
Here WISPA has been created and hardly anyone

Thank you very much.
As for work groups, YES Butch, even YOU a NON wisp can join in a work
group and contribute.
I will say once again,
If ANYONE in our industry can come up with a work group, wisp centric
that will help our industry and our wisps, we would WELCOME you to do so
and create

Did anyone READ the link?
They are NOT asking us to archive content, but IP addresses of sites
browsed to, e-mail sent to and so on. Not content.
If Congress is going to be asked to pass legislation ordering Internet
providers to retain data they won't be asked for content of that data
but

If it would be a huge burden to small businesses, then the SBA can file
under the Small Business Burden Act (forget what it is actually called).
The federal gov't cannot create regulations that would be a hardship for
SMB owners.
BTW, imagine having 2M BB users and how much space that would

Actually, the ACLU declined to meet with the AG FBI saying basically
You have got to be kidding.
Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Did anyone notice that the ACLU hasn't peeped a negative word against
requiring the logging of all internet use by individuals? We're on our
own, as individuals, as

All of this is pedantic.
It seems consensus is this is a crazy idea.
Everyone agrees.
Problems:
Hardship.
Too much info.
No chain of evidence.
Unsecure.
No space or time.
Unreasonable.
Who do we send the letter to?
I'll help a board member or Mark K. compose one.
Regards,
Peter
--
WISPA

George,
Welcome to my world. A world where ISP's bitch about everything, but
take little action.
A world where the ISP associations are supposed to miraculously handle
everything with little budget and a even less manpower. (You are
experiencing this now in WISPA).
FISPA, AASP, II4A and the

Not only true in DC, but to the general public as well, Larry.
Larry Yunker wrote:
I doubt quite seriously that any heads of executive branch departments
realize that broadband/internet services are sometimes/often? provided
by companies with a staff of less than ten and gross revenues less

I don't think anyone believes you will go Quietly :)
However, when you make that noise, are you aiming it at your Congress
Critter?
Or just into the ether that is a listserv?
In the time it took to write and read the 30 or so posts on the subject,
you could have written a press release or

I like the form except that I think you are short-changing the industry by
quoting 1000 providers. I suspect that there are still tens of thousands of
ISPs and probably a few thousand WISPs.
- Larry
- Original Message -
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List

Not only true in DC, but to the general public as well, Larry.
Excuse the language... but it seems appropriate...
Sh*t flows downhill --- Washington -- Media -- Public
- Larry
Larry Yunker wrote:
I doubt quite seriously that any heads of executive branch departments
realize that

Peter, I'd tend to agree with you... but think about this:
How many lawsuits have been filed against people for music swapping, purely
on the basis of ISP logs?
If I HAD any logs of customer activity ( I do not ) I would disclaim them
immediately - by responding that I have no conflidence in the

I could be wrong but as I have followed this thread there are 2 issues
at hand.
1) Does the government have a right to know the actions of Americans on
the internet?
2) Is this a responsibility of the ISP to bear the burden of gathering
this information or should the burden be carried by

Then it is a boondoggle. All of the web traffic will be to some
off-shore proxy. The same with email.
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
Blair Davis wrote:
Did anyone READ the link?
They are NOT asking us to archive content, but IP addresses of sites
browsed to, e-mail sent to and so

While I agree with your breakdown and the general statement that #1
should be decided on by the country as a whole. I think it is up to us
as an industry that understands the implications of what is being asked
for to make a statement about #1 even if it is just a clarification of
the

Many of you seem to be of the belief that the
proposed bill requires you to keep records of the content of subscribers.
Simply put, that isNOT THE CASE. While I do not know the specific
details of the various proposals, I do know that none of them are expecting ISPs
to keep copies of

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Why aren't YOU doing something about it?
What DO you want me to do?
What do _I_ want you to do? Do what you seem to expect others to do
on your behalf, which you seem to think they are not/will not do!
I was sold on the notion that we should

If you object to spam as much as you say you do, then why on earth would you send that spam to a list? Get a clue. Also, watch your language.LonnieOn 6/4/06,
JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyone
Else receiving these from these pricks ?
JohnnyO
-Original Message-From:

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, George Rogato wrote:
1) Does the government have a right to know the actions of
Americans on the internet?
This is not really at issue. At least it is not really of any
concern for us here.
2) Is this a responsibility of the ISP to bear the burden of
gathering this

Jeromie,
Don't know budget or bitrate but I'll pass the Winamp/Shoutcast
suggestion along.
THANKS!
jack
Jeromie Reeves wrote:
What is the budget on this? Does it need to be stereo or high bitrate? 2
PC's with sound cards running
winamp/shoutcast would do it. A network MP# player +

Title: Message
Ahhh
my old good friend Lonnie :) How are you these days ? Get a clue . I did -
don't buy from Canadian companies - they'll bend you over every chance they get
:)
Prick
: please see http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prickfor
a better run down on the term

To the Board:
Is this behaviour condoned? Not only did he spam the list and use
offensive language, but he now slanders all Canadian companies.
Lonnie
On 6/4/06, JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ahhh my old good friend Lonnie :) How are you these days ? Get a clue .
I did - don't buy

Lonnie - my experiences and my opinions of Canadian companies are that
of my own. Apparently you're looking to make an ass out of both you and
I or else you wouldn't have responded the way you did Slander - not
even close.
I KNOW DragonWave Harvested this list - Just like Tranzeo has

Butch,
Most likely wispa will act on this. But, ultimately, it comes down to
does the membership of wispa want to do this.
I don't mean to be rude, but shouldn't the paying members that make up
the wispa membership decide what wispa acts on or not?
It's not that I disagree with any of this,

I just want to know if the stole your girlfriend.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prick
George
JohnnyO wrote:
Lonnie - my experiences and my opinions of Canadian companies are that
of my own. Apparently you're looking to make an ass out of both you and
I or else you wouldn't

At least you apologized Johnny, but it does get old watching people fight.
Can't you guys just agree to not get along and ignore each other?
George
JohnnyO wrote:
Lonnie - my experiences and my opinions of Canadian companies are that
of my own. Apparently you're looking to make an ass out of