You know, I have to say: If nothing else, when this whole situation is over and done with however it resolves... it's going to be a giant game of 'Told you so' on here. And I for one welcome our gloating overlords.

Those aren't hats. Years of living on a diet of "whatever the Chinese deign to give us" have caused certain members of the North Korean people to grow extraordinarily large, deformed brains. Those people are elevated to positions of honor and status. Those "hats" are actually their skulls.

MrHappyRotter:Good bye, Golden Age of the United States. Very soon, our lives will be changing forever in ways we can't even begin to comprehend. The wrath of North Korea will never, never be forgotten. Sure, some of us will survive and adapt to a world that would be unrecognizable to us, but it will be just that, survival. I only hope I'm one of the lucky ones that dies in the immediate aftermath and not one of the ones who will suffer under North Korean supremacy. I for one will be spending my last remaining hours of this life making the best of what's left. The cats and I live like we've never lived before. I'll probably even stop reading Fark for a few minutes and stick my head outside long enough to enjoy the fresh, crisp cool air. And then, I'll cry myself to sleep.

Giltric: they don't have to destroy anything....just have to make it uninhabitable with fallout....thats what the whole dirty nuke/bomb thing was about in the current war on terror.

TalenLee:Well, given that we're talking about America, if they successfully blow up some buildings with box cutters, you'll all lose your goddamn mind and invade Belgium, so I suppose they have ways to maximise their side effects.

lizardbrain:It's all just a ploy to get the West to offer them more aid if they comply.

It's gone past that point now. He's puffed his chest too much and now the other nations are calling his hand. Whether he's bluffing or willing to go all in is now up to him/them. There won't be any aid unless they start dismantling everything that they've been threatening with.

My question is whether or not the common N. Korean knows what's going on. If they don't know how much shiat he's actually talking then I wouldn't be as worried, as he wouldn't look like a total fool and moron if he caved. I'd be pretty worried if they did know, because then he has little reason to not go all in.

kipLinger:silly Americans. NK is not starting a war to win. They want to lose! fight Americans, lose and you get American money to rebuild your country. Win, you get nothing. look at Vietnam. They won and what did they get? 3 decades of misery until China become a threat to US. nope, much safer to lose to US.

Suppose Kim-Jong-Un wants to leave Best Korea and live in the Western world. He's basically been forced into a life that perhaps he never really wanted. How would he possibly be able to get out of that life? How about force the military to launch a bloodless coup that allows him and his perky wife to leave Korea and live a life of ease in China. All he'd have to do is act so recklessly that the military would decide that he is no longer stable.

one problem with this theory. The military is all as insane if not moreso than the KIm clan. They wouldn't push him out, they'd praise him for finally finishing the great war with the Lesser Korean oppressors.

I don't doubt that Kim is looking for an out somewhere though

I agree. Most people don't realized this 'kid' spent much of his most formative years living a lavish lifestyle in Europe and going to schools there. Suddenly his dad dies and he is thrust into a position of governing a shiathole country with millions of starving people looking at him like he is god and a military that is so brainwashed through decades of propaganda and also looking at him for direction.That dude wants out BUT he can't just hop on a plane and say see ya!He has to get an out where he can still live a quiet lavish lifestyle somewhere while preserving his family name and dynasty but look like some sort of a anti western hero in the eyes of the norks. I'm betting he is also living such a controlled and scripted life that making some sort of secret deal with spies etc is near impossible without being found out.

jaybeezey:iheartscotch: Exactly, mein Fürher; excuse me, Dear Leader. It is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the fear to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision making process which rules out human meddling, the doomsday machine is terrifying. It's simple to understand. And completely credible, and convincing

Yes, but what good is a doomsday device if you don't tell anyone about it?!?!!

They say there's no devil, Jim, but there is. Right out of hell, I saw it!"

Lusiphur:Amos Quito: One three decent high-altitude EMP's over the US - East, West, Center, and we're farked.

Ummm....no. Not even close. During the cold war, the Russians detonated high-yield, 300kT above a small city in Kazakstan, specifically to check for EMP damage. This was a very specific, very controlled blast, organized by top Russian scientists, using state-of-the-art technology for the time. The EMP shockwave absolutely crippled the city over which the blast took place, the furthest extent of "real" damage was about 600km, or 400 miles. So if the North Koreans managed to explode a 300kT nuke over, say, San Francisco, they would take out the bay area, and maybe do some sporadic damage to Portland. That's it. LA would be unaffected, as would Seattle. Which is assuming they had a 300kT nuke. Their last test is estimated to have been in the 7-10kT range. Going back to the history books, we see that the Russians first tried their EMP experiments with 1.2kT, 11kT, and 40kT yields, all of which yielded negligible results.

So no, an EMP is not even remotely a threat. It's more likely that Kim Jong Un walks across the Pacific, whips out his nuclear schlong, and rapes the West Coast to death.

Even Starfish Prime caused minimal damage past a 600 or so mile radius (since I doubt a temporary power fluctuation and a couple of blown street lights will bring the West Coast to its knees), and that was a 1.4mT blast.

scottydoesntknow:lizardbrain: It's all just a ploy to get the West to offer them more aid if they comply.

It's gone past that point now. He's puffed his chest too much and now the other nations are calling his hand. Whether he's bluffing or willing to go all in is now up to him/them. There won't be any aid unless they start dismantling everything that they've been threatening with.

My question is whether or not the common N. Korean knows what's going on. If they don't know how much shiat he's actually talking then I wouldn't be as worried, as he wouldn't look like a total fool and moron if he caved. I'd be pretty worried if they did know, because then he has little reason to not go all in.

the common north korean has the same access to media and news as the average afghan cooking his meal over a camel dung fire. none.if the common north korean knows anything at all, it is only what the state wants him to know or think.there are those that have some means of knowing more, or there wouldn't be dissidents.

Thought here, but: Let's say NK does lob a nuke at the US or South Korea. Let's say it falls short, doesn't reach the destination, plummets into the ocean, or there are extremely minimal casualties.

Wouldn't it be in our best interest not to retaliate with nuclear means?

Would we be capable of then stripping NK of their military capabilities by non-nuclear means, dismissing of their artillery, etc, with minimal losses to us, and South Korea? If so, that would be an extremely strong showing of restraint on part of the United States. If we could do so, we would be the good guys again, right? Casualties for NK civilians would be minimized, although it would cost us a hell of a lot more money, and we'd be susceptible to far greater loses of our own men and women. Stabilization of the area would come far more swiftly.

Also, assuming war with NK does break out, and assuming we defeat them unilaterally. What then? Who claims the land? Does South Korea get first dibs, or will China flood men across the border and attempt to seize the area? Or do we have to go in and occupy? There would be a power vaccuum. It isn't really the NK threat that scares me, it is more the aftermath. That is what I believe could cause WWIII.

the little dung beetle could also tell his people that he is retaliating for something (that he makes up).he might tell them that the US is responsible for stealing korean food and that is why they are starving.there is nobody there to call bullshiat (for long)

the nazi's raided and killed their own citizens in border towns (while disguised foreigners) and then showed film footage of victims before movies in the theaters to get germans worked up to support their own aggression.it's not like the germans could go online and find out the whole thing was faked.

the nazi's raided and killed their own citizens in border towns (while disguised foreigners) and then showed film footage of victims before movies in the theaters to get germans worked up to support their own aggression.

lizardbrain:It's all just a ploy to get the West to offer them more aid if they comply.

After today I would tell them to go screw now and forever because any future assistance is no more. Nothing ever again.Then fly over dropping millions of pamphlets explaining to the 'citizens' why they are all doomed and who they have to thank for it. Perhaps then they'll fix life themselves.Comply or don't comply, it's over anyway so go pound sand.I'm certain he's full of shiat but no farking way would I give them anything anymore. He went past the point of no return.fark him.

Popular Opinion:the little dung beetle could also tell his people that he is retaliating for something (that he makes up).he might tell them that the US is responsible for stealing korean food and that is why they are starving.there is nobody there to call bullshiat (for long)

the nazi's raided and killed their own citizens in border towns (while disguised foreigners) and then showed film footage of victims before movies in the theaters to get germans worked up to support their own aggression.it's not like the germans could go online and find out the whole thing was faked.

But why bother? There's no reason for this. They have no say in what he does anyway and he's not subject to popular opinion.

no worries... I think the flash point of WWIII will be the mideast not northeast Asia. Highly unlikely. Despots, tyrants and crazies come and go BUT religions stay forever!

I guess if there is a silver lining in all this is there is no 'religious/tribal' variable in the equation and that is HUGE.

China, NK, SK, Japan etc are pretty much atheistic/agnostic type societies and no one is going to go to war because Buddha, MSM, Allah or Jesus told them to nor are they fighting infidels and die as myrtyrs and be rewarded in the afterlife.

SuperNinjaToad:no worries... I think the flash point of WWIII will be the mideast not northeast Asia. Highly unlikely. Despots, tyrants and crazies come and go BUT religions stay forever!

I guess if there is a silver lining in all this is there is no 'religious/tribal' variable in the equation and that is HUGE.

China, NK, SK, Japan etc are pretty much atheistic/agnostic type societies and no one is going to go to war because Buddha, MSM, Allah or Jesus told them to nor are they fighting infidels and die as myrtyrs and be rewarded in the afterlife.

Japan went to war because they believed their Emperor was an infallible man-god.

Popular Opinion:scottydoesntknow: lizardbrain: It's all just a ploy to get the West to offer them more aid if they comply.

It's gone past that point now. He's puffed his chest too much and now the other nations are calling his hand. Whether he's bluffing or willing to go all in is now up to him/them. There won't be any aid unless they start dismantling everything that they've been threatening with.

My question is whether or not the common N. Korean knows what's going on. If they don't know how much shiat he's actually talking then I wouldn't be as worried, as he wouldn't look like a total fool and moron if he caved. I'd be pretty worried if they did know, because then he has little reason to not go all in.

the common north korean has the same access to media and news as the average afghan cooking his meal over a camel dung fire. none.if the common north korean knows anything at all, it is only what the state wants him to know or think.

Boy, those poor North Koreans are so easily misled by Official Propaganda.

cameroncrazy1984:SuperNinjaToad: no worries... I think the flash point of WWIII will be the mideast not northeast Asia. Highly unlikely. Despots, tyrants and crazies come and go BUT religions stay forever!

I guess if there is a silver lining in all this is there is no 'religious/tribal' variable in the equation and that is HUGE.

China, NK, SK, Japan etc are pretty much atheistic/agnostic type societies and no one is going to go to war because Buddha, MSM, Allah or Jesus told them to nor are they fighting infidels and die as myrtyrs and be rewarded in the afterlife.

Japan went to war because they believed their Emperor was an infallible man-god.