Beppe Grillo: Cronyism has hurt Italian science

Update:Following the publication of this interview, a number of readers have suggested that our correspondent should have pressed Grillo more closely on statements he has made about science in the past. We have invited Fabio Turone, president of the professional association Science Writers in Italy, to respond in the comments below.

Original article, published 27 February 2013:

In an exclusive interview, the comedian turned politician reveals how celebrating science and technology in his comedy act launched his political career

How did this adventure start?In 2005 I had a blog, where people discussed topics such as a sustainable economy, renewable energy and broadband coverage. I also used to spread information about new technologies during my comedy shows – using YouTube on stage to show how they worked.

I started using my blog to get information about cities I was about to visit, asking followers what the main problems there were. Many mentioned misconduct of politicians, and other things I wanted to talk about during my shows.

Then, before a show in one city, local politicians called saying they would sue if I said something unpleasant. This was the sign that the blog was working! Since then, it has grown to become one of the first three blogs in the world.

Italy has big problems with internet coverage. How did a web movement become the first party of the nation?I used my fame and my reputation and put myself at the disposal of the people, and they started to participate and discuss, first through the web and then face to face.

How did you make the transition from the web to in person events?I used a website called Meetup.com, and in each city, people first communicated through the website and then met in person to discuss the problems of their city. After that, we decided to organise bigger events. At an event called the V Day held in several Italian cities, there were a million and a half people! What a surprise! There were also other cities connected via Skype – Milan, New York, London. In half a day, we collected around 350,000 signatures for a "clean parliament" law.

Many political movements are born on the Internet. But few manage to shift from protests to positions in government. What did you do differently?We thought about the next stage, and also how to avoid street clashes. And the next stage was the civic list [through which people register as supporters of the new movement, and not existing political parties]. Civic lists have formed spontaneously and are now spreading like wildfire throughout the country.

At some point in your comedy shows, you started talking about science and technology. Soon people came to see you as much to be informed as to laugh. What drove this?I started to be curious about what was behind everyday things – the path that a can of coke or pot of yogurt takes to reach us, for example, and how much this costs, what natural resources it consumes, how much it pollutes. And I began to understand the schizophrenic paths of our current economy.

So I turned to scientists and intellectuals to see if there were more sustainable paths ways to do things. Prominent scientists later wrote for my blog, discussed ideas. Lino Guzzella, the rector of ETH Zurich, came on stage at one of my shows to explain what the energy of the future will be.

Were there other widespread public discussions on topics like renewable energy in Italy at that time?I would say no. The ideas of these intellectuals were in books, books most politicians obviously did not read. I studied them and then brought the ideas into my shows.

Why do you think politicians in Italy aren't looking to science and technology to help find a way out from economic crisis?Over the last decades politicians have removed many valuable people from industry and the government, in order to substitute them with their friends. So you end up with people in positions of power who know nothing about research, technology, innovation, clean energy, sustainable economy. Nothing!

Now that you are in the government, what place will scientific research have in your program?A primary place. One of our main objectives is to restore meritocracy within research and academia, where cronyism is also widespread. We also want to give money back to public research that is dying.

In the last two years, the government spent €1 billion on official cars and hundreds of millions of euros on private schools, while only €38 million went to basic research for 2013. Amazing!

How do Italian scientists view your Five Star Movement?There are plenty of researchers on our civic lists. There are also many who live abroad who are ready to come back to help. They send us tons of tweets every day. In Italy, we have some of the best minds in the world and we have let them all go abroad. But if we give a strong signal of change, they will come back.

Interview translated from Italian

Profile

Beppe Grillo is an Italian comedian and politician. He launched Italy's Five Star Movement, which just won 109 seats in the country's lower chamber of deputies, as well as 54 seats in the senate.

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"In Italy, we have some of the best minds in the world and we have let them all go abroad" (Image: Giuseppe Cacace/AFP/Getty)