SENIOR MEMBER

KABUL – The Taliban responded scornfully Monday to the formal end of NATO's war in Afghanistan, describing the US-led mission as a "fire of barbarism and cruelty" that had drowned the country "in a pool of blood."

The insurgent group issued the statement in English a day after NATO marked the closure of its combat mission with a low-key ceremony in Kabul, arranged in secret due to the threat of Taliban attack.

"We consider this step a clear indication of their defeat and disappointment," the Taliban said.

"America, its invading allies ... along with all international arrogant organizations have been handed a clear-cut defeat in this lopsided war."

The Taliban, who ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001, have fought a resilient insurgency against NATO and Afghan forces for 13 years, with violence now at record levels nationwide.

The United Nations said civilian casualties hit a new high this year with about 10,000 non-combatants killed or wounded — 75 percent of them by the Taliban.

On Jan. 1, NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) combat mission will be replaced by a "training and support" mission.

About 12,500 NATO troops will stay on in Afghanistan.

The Taliban statement said the group would fight on "for the establishment of a pure Islamic system by expelling the remaining invading forces unconditionally."

President Ashraf Ghani has said he is open to peace talks, but the Taliban said it would "continue its Jihad and struggle so long as a single foreigner remains in Afghanistan in a military uniform.''

MEMBER

That's a long time for a war, and what are we getting out of it. I think the war was all about the poppy fields. Afghanistan has control of the heroin market worldwide and NATO wants in. I can't think of any other reason to be there for that long. The truth is always deeper then what appears on the surface.

MEMBER

It is not a defeat, but it isn't a victory. Compute the amount of money that has been spent on the Afghan war, the country isn't capable of self government. Therefore the objectives have not been met. If the USA would pull out, it would be another Vietnam.

MEMBER

13 years seems like a long war - but it isn't historically (100 years war anyone). It was always going to be hard won - Russia found that out in the 70s, when the UK/US/France were busy arming and training the Taliban to take them on! (One could say "we reap what we sow!").

The area needs continual pressure, Pakistan especially, and forces to police and quell in-fighting and maintain peace. 75% of the world heroine comes (come?) through Afghanistan, that is huge - it is not that the west "want" this, it is that this is what funds the world's terrorist organizations and that is the best way to fight terror, by starving it out!

MEMBER

It is unfortunate, but in a way they are right. What came out of the occupation? At the end there is still corruption and instability. On the other hand, it is far from a victory for the Taliban. They've been ousted from power and they have a long way to go yet before they can regain the same influence they had before.

NEW RECRUIT

To call this a victory for the allies is an understatement, as soon as the states withdraw the Taliban will try to get a foothold of the remaining population. They will try to sway the majority, they might even branch off in different extreme group like Isis and resort to more barbaric acts. I don't see Afghanistan ever being a liberated country that could stand on its own 2 feet, at least not for a few more decades. These groups are way too extreme to accept anything less, I guess we'll have to wait and see, I myself don't think I see any changes in my lifetime.

MEMBER

Maybe it wasn't really a defeat by the NATO. It could have been just that NATO doesn't see them a threat anymore and the fight against them is simply futile. Afghanistan is too proud to claim they finally defeat the NATO. They might have, but for NATO, is Afghanistan really that a hard opponent to fight against?

SENIOR MEMBER

The complications with unconventional warfare is this simple: you can't win. Much as the Taliban might claim NATO is defeated, fact is when you send suicide bombers amongst civilians what did they expect? Shoot the civilians along with the coward? NATO's withdrawal of most of their troops isn't an admission that they are beaten. They must face the facts that the tactics of the foe have them at a disadvantage. Why expose your soldiers to danger for no reason?

MEMBER

That is the sad reality Redheart, no one wins unless the weapon industry who keeps selling weapons. But apart from that there are plenty of losers, people that lose their lives or have poor living conditions.

NEW RECRUIT

Peninha, don't forget about all the corporate interests that went in and basically exploited Afghanistan's resources and made a ton of money over there. The private contractors also made a killing. Basically, the people that actually ended up losing here were the US population and the Afghan population (i.e. the average person).

MEMBER

13 years seems like a long war - but it isn't historically (100 years war anyone). It was always going to be hard won - Russia found that out in the 70s, when the UK/US/France were busy arming and training the Taliban to take them on! (One could say "we reap what we sow!").

Most Western democracies are unwilling to fight long drawn out protracted wars. When USA first started fighting in Vietnam, its Vietnamse allies said that USA will lose the war, because they are unwilling to stay there for 50 to 100 years.

Unless the USA/NATO is willing to stay in Afghanistan for 50 - 100 years they will have to pull out, and that means a victory for the Taliban.

MEMBER

Countries like Afghanistan can only be won if the people are no longer afraid (they are protected) AND the people have a viable alternative and something to fight for themselves. That is, it needs a heck lot more investment (and not all military) to buy the hearts and minds and it needs a grass roots movement from within the country/people itself. They need to see the changes for the better, appreciate the freedom to education, speech and thought, hospitals/schools/roads/jobs/and so on. Only then will it become impossible for the Taliban or something similar to return. However, that makes little money for the military backers and doesn't land you control of their oil or drugs.