1.12.11

BARRY HEARN INTERVIEW

Barry Hearn is not a man troubled by uncertainty.

“I always listen to other people’s opinions but if I disagree with them then I disregard them immediately,” he told me.

The interview was conducted as the World Snooker chairman dashed between meetings. It was just another day for Hearn: up early, into work and on with business, a business which has been incredibly profitable since Matchroom was founded over 30 years ago.

Hearn rode the crest of the snooker wave in the 1980s before conquering new lands, some of them mainstream like boxing and others niche such as poker and fishing. He carries with him a first rate reputation as a wheeler and dealer, gregarious front man and lover of innovation.

Self confidence is not something lacking in the Hearn repertoire and neither should it be. Yes, he talks the talk but his record proves he has also walked the walk.

But an increasing number of players are finding cause to criticise him as the wind of change runs through professional snooker. John Higgins last week reportedly claimed the UK Championship had been ‘ruined’ by the decision to reduce it to best of 11 frames from its traditional best of 17.

It is a change that has left many appalled, but Hearn sighs deeply before answering the charge that the game’s second biggest event has been downgraded.

“This is a great example of why snooker players should play snooker and leave commercial decisions to people qualified to make them,” he said.

“You have to take note of moving trends and remember that the customer is always right. The viewing figures and ticket sales are our customers, are what we listen to.

“I don’t want to say we were fortunate that the BBC signed a new contract but let’s put it this way: we are grateful of their support.

“For the UK Championship they wanted a result in every session and best of 11 was actually stretching it as far as we could.

“People may not like it but across all sports there is a move towards faster action. We have never got near to the ticket sales we have achieved this year. People know that they will come and see a result.

“It sounds to me like John Higgins is completely removed from reality. He’s a great player and is entitled to his opinion but we’re a commercial sport. If he and others want bigger prize funds then they have to live in the real world.

“To be honest, what they want is almost immaterial to me. I have to transform snooker and I know what I’m doing. If that sounds big-headed, well, tough. I’ve been doing it for 35 years and I’ve been successful.”

What, then, of the World Championship, which currently runs for 17 days over long matches where it sometimes takes days, never mind sessions, to reach a result?

“We will leave the World Championship virtually untouched because it’s proved itself,” said Hearn, who featured in a famous Crucible cameo when he barrelled across the stage in 1981 and nearly knocked Steve Davis over after his young charge became world champion for the first time.

“It’s a bizarre tournament in a way, the fact you can play a match for three days, but it works.

“But you can’t expect nothing to change otherwise the game will die. If that happens the likes of John Higgins will have to get a job, and they won’t like that.”

Hearn tells me he has a “skin like a rhinoceros” but he does sound genuinely frustrated when I raise the subject of complaints about the PTCs.

“What people don’t seem to understand is that we have a proper commercial plan,” he said. “It’s a five-year plan and the PTCs are here for five years. We haven’t even reached the end of year two yet and they’re already moaning. Wait and see where we are after five years.

“Peter Ebdon got it right two years ago. He told the EGM they were giving me control of the game forever. Correct, and I know the way to go. I know exactly what I’m doing because I’ve done it in darts and elsewhere.

“The PTCs will evolve over time. Players complain about them but they forget they are sharper than ever because they’re playing all the time and they forget that winning the £10,000 first prize – which is a lot of money to a working man – qualifies towards playing in a bigger tournament where the first prize is £75,000.

“The European PTCs have been a great springboard to showcase the game in Europe and explore the market there. Those events will grow but we need the players to support them.”

Hearn says he takes an hourly interest in the fast moving administration of the professional circuit. “Yes, I make mistakes,” he admitted in a rare moment of self reproach. “As Aneurin Bevan [politician and founder of the National Health Service] said, if you haven’t made 11 mistakes before breakfast then you’re still in bed. But I have so many ideas and most of them are good.”

One such idea will not go down well with top players. Hearn’s long term plan is to have all players start in the first round in all tournaments, as happens in the PTCs.

How he will sell this to broadcasters who want the big names guaranteed on their screens is another matter, but Hearn believes snooker has been a cosy closed shop for too long.

“I will eventually move it so that every player comes in at the first round stage, no seedings, no exemptions,” he said. “There’s been too much protection in this game. It’s a long term project and top players won’t like it but it’s much fairer, just like the new ranking system is.

“Eventually everyone will play in the first round. The sport hasn’t been vibrant enough, there have been too few new faces coming through. It’s been a closed shop largely and there have been too many obstacles.

“This will be good news for the new players and youngsters but I also believe the prize money structure should change. There should be more given to winners and less lower down.

“When the history books of snooker are written, the few years before I took over will be looked at as snooker in its death throws. It was going nowhere.

“So many things were being done because they had always been done and people seemed content to basically just divvy up the money and keep everyone sweet.

“It was run like a boys’ club. In five years time the sport will look completely different. There will be a tournament every week, just like golf, just like tennis.”

In the face of all this, I suggest the bullish Hearn isn’t bothered by public criticisms from leading players, but he disagrees.

“I am bothered by them because they are damaging. These negative comments have a direct commercial impact with sponsors,” he said.

“It seems to me a lot of top players would rather be at home in bed than go out to work like the rest of us.

“The players job is to keep their mouths shut and play snooker. Mine is to provide them with the opportunities to do that, which I am doing.

“You can’t just take from life. You have to put in as well. If it means the inconvenience of playing in lower prize money tournaments then so be it. They should think about the bigger picture, about where the sport can go.

“Some of them seem to want everything now. Well, that won’t happen but at the end of five years the sport will have been transformed. The prizes will be there for those who want them and are prepared to work for them. Some players seem to think I should just send them a cheque every month.

“I know I can do it, but the players have to play their part too. I may sound over confident but that’s 35 years of being successful for you.”

Snooker, though, is a difficult and cut-throat sport. Many players are left out of pocket through the expense of travelling to tournaments that do not carry large financial prizes.

Does Hearn have sympathy? Up to a point.

“It’s tough, of course, but at the end of five years there will be a tournament every week and the players can choose what they want to play in,” he said.

“I don’t mind people losing money playing if that’s their chosen path, if that’s what they want to do with their lives, but it’s my responsibility to give them the chances and reward them if they are successful.

“In golf, if they get their tour card they know it will cost them £70,000 a year in expenses and if they don’t make the cut they won’t get paid but if they do well they will become very wealthy. That’s sport. We’re not here to protect anyone but we should reward people who do well.”

If what Hearn says is right then snooker in 2015 will indeed look very different: a 12-month global circuit featuring tournaments big and small.

It may be that some big names get swept away in this revolution, but this has happened before. 20 years ago when the game went open many of the familiar faces from the boom years of the 1980s disappeared and were replaced by young stars, some of whom are now approaching veteran status.

Ray Reardon, in fact, retired in protest at the influx of new stars, each turning professional based on paying entry fees rather than ability.

The sport has done well to survive the various troughs of recent years. It went through some bad times but is still standing, and with European and Far Eastern interest is set to flourish again.

This is how professional snooker is now: changes, challenges and a hectic playing schedule, plenty for people to adapt to and much to be questioned as well.

We can judge the success of the Hearn plan when it is complete but one thing is clear: whether people in the snooker world agree with him or not, he isn’t going anywhere and he isn’t going to change course.

60 comments:

TonyC
said...

Really good interview. Am glad Barry has stuck it up to a few of the 'moaners'. You're not going to agree with everything he says and does (in what organisation does that happen?!) but he is a successful businessman.

When you look at where the game was, players (rightly) moaning that they were nothing more than part-time professionals as there were no tournaments for weeks, some of them are coming across as spoilt brats and I think its a real point Barry makes when he says this could be detrimental in attracting sponsors.

The one slightly worrying thing to come out of the interview was the comment "We will leave the World Championship virtually untouched".

"Virtually untouched" - which suggests that too is going to be tinkered with in some way despite (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) it being said previously that the 'holy grail' of Snooker wouldn't be touched.

All in all though it's never been a better time to be a Snooker fan and these online blogs and communities make it even more enjoyable as we actually have Snooker related things (good and bad) to talk about now!

Great interview, would have liked to know whether he thinks there's a future for snooker on sports television channels. Cannot see betting streams funding 50 odd tournaments a year. I think the older players have shown themselves to be selfish and stupid. They want the rewards of football or tennis but it was them who let the sport get into its parlous state to begin with. There is a lack of young talent and would be great to see the top 16 not seeded through which would also make the rankings an irrelevance too.

I agree with what Barry Hearn says about the PTCs, and he has some interesting ideas for the future. He has done a lot of good things.

But where does he get the idea shortening the matches at the UK Championship are what people want? I've brought tickets to the UK Championship the past three years and e-mailed World Snooker saying I would not be buying them this year, due to match shortening in the first rounds. It is certainly NOT what this fan wants. And I know other who feel the same.

although I applaud the idea of everyone starting in round one I would hope seeding on past performance is recognised and the draw made accordingly with the top players starting in the first round but being kept apart by seeding. It would be ludicrous for the top two players to meet in the first round by the 'luck of the draw' and would do nothing to "reward excellence"

What does he mean in relation to the world championship dave.surely that means reducing the length of the matches ?.the way the beeb are operating lately this is a certainty. Did you get any ideas talking to him ?.

i suggest ticket sales for the uk's are up as a result of a great marketing campaign -nothing to do with the length of matches- what a shame the bbc cannot cope with proper length matches anymore -in spite of millions of viewers wanting to watch them!

I think Reardon retired because his lamps were dodgy and he didnt like the qualifiers.

Good interview. What a character. From a personal view I have what I want. An almost constant flow of televised/streamed snooker.

From a players viewpoint it may be tough but if the cash isnt there the game will cease to exist and Hearn is the man with the responsibility to deliver that cash.

I love the idea of all players starting together PTC style. The rankings will still be relevant for invitational tournaments. While there would be no byes there would have to be seeding. You wouldnt want the worlds two best players meeting in round one.

Anyway thats all down the line. Looking forward to the new look UK. Unlike most people on here I prefer the new format. Always found the end of the first session a bit frustrating, especially if I had to be somewhere for the finish.

The UK will last as long as the BBC want it, and he says as much in the interview. The BBC wanted a result every session and there we have it. I think it will be much tougher for the BBC to impose changes on the world championship because it's commercial enough to shop around to other broadcasters.

To be fair, the WC could use some minor changes; it really needs to finish on a Sunday not a UK bank holiday, so the two options are starting it on a Friday or cutting the semis down to three sessions and playing them over two days. Since the world championship is the most attended and most watched event then there isn't a case for making changes beyond improving the scheduling.

Great interview.No BS or flannel from Bazza, he doesnt mince his words. Ive been championing a PTC style set up where everyone enters events at 1st round. It all makes sense now with the tour going up to 128 players and the talk of money based ranking list, cos it could only work under this flatter set up. Basically all players will in future be playing 2 qualifying matches 4 every event with the 32 reaching round 3 making it to the venue. And fear not, of course it will still be seeded. So its Hearns way or the highway, make your choice workshy and lazy players?

Betsy I would like to see the world semis shortened to 2 days but the drawback is that the winner of session 2 day 2 would surely have a big advantage in the final, especially if the other semi went the distance.

You will always have moaning nobodies typing into there pc whining that everything shud be given to them for free. Hearn is doing a great job so far and if he wants to shorten the worlds let him. Its way too long anyway.

An event every week would be great! I don't think it will too tough because nobody will enter every tournament. Every player chooses the events he likes to play like in other sports like tennis or golf, too.

A format with all 128 players playing in round 1 is much fairer than the current format.

But I think the new prize money system must be the other way round: Winner prizes are big enough, but there are so many players like Igor Figueiredo or Björn Haneveer, who quit snooker due to the less money in the first rounds. If snooker gets more money, it should be given to the "poorer" players.

Hearn's ego is out of control. TV ranking tournaments is where the public want it to be at. Not PTC events. Hearn only seems to be considering the players in all this, worried about keeping the players happy, giving them small tournaments to play in every week. The ordinary punter doesn't give a toss about it. If he wants to please the supporters and the players, he should do what Steve Davis suggested a few years ago, create a few new 'super' events to rival the World Championship, if he wants it to work like tennis and golf you can't just have one major tournament per year - you need 4. The UK and the Masters can no longer be classed in that bracket, so he needs to create some new major tournaments, preferrably with BBC coverage.

Good article, however Ray Reardon (my all time favourite player) definitely did not retire in protest at the new influx paying their way in. He retired due to the dates for qualifying events for tournaments being altered to clash with his commitments to the holiday camp coaching season. The headline, in the Telegraph in early 1991 - "I may be forced to quit, says Reardon" has long sinced burrowed its way into my memory..

When one looks back to the walker era one has to admit Hearn achieved a lot in a couple of seasons. The PTC's give many continental fans a chance to watch their favourite players they only could dream of. Beside visiting many tournaments in The UK I went to the PTC9 in Antwerp. It was fantastic. On the final sunday, I saw 4 world champions, 2 finalists, young talent, old favourites, talked to Martin Gould and had some great matches. The attendance was far better than many UK events, even doubled The UK's I have been to. Hearn is wrong though where he clarifies he wants faster action like in other sports and cutting on frames in The UK. Golf is still played over 18 holes Barry, in 4 days. Likewise tennis and football still have the same format and duration. The UK is the biggest tournament after the WC and cutting it back to best of 11 is completely wrong. He is also wrong stating, players should just play snooker. They are the core of the business and alienating them will leave Barry standing alone on his ship with no crew left. There is also a risk snooker going the darts way. Darts became very big in Holland and the rest of the continent, but in recent years it has dropped considerate in popularity. I hope the expansion of snooker to the continent will remain, the market is there, but risky as it could be seen as a novelty and interest could reduce when not real ranking tournaments are given a chance. Not all is black or white in life Barry

Where are these 'customers'? They don't post in forums or blogs because iv not read about anyone being happy about a down graded UK. I like Barry and still think he's the man for snooker but he's not scared to tell porky pies.

Correct betty it was Stalin he achieved tremendous successes as far as the commercial side is concerned but at appalling human cost failures been wages fell,sacked if you voiced your opinion or were late for work etc etc . There is also a four year plan but its not good PR as nazi germany used this as their calling card.Hence the five year plan.

If it were any other broadcaster I wouldn't believe the "result in every session" explanation, but we are talking about BBC Sport (who thought it appropriate to spend a billion pounds on a studio in Salford) so it probably is true.

This suggests decisions about snooker are being made by ignorant, hubristic BBC commissioning editors who have no interest in the sport or what makes people watch - meaning it is only a matter of time before they demand the worlds are cut back from 17 days. Hearn should be looking at the bigger picture (overseas broadcasters) and keep the WC as it is. If the BBC don't want 17 days then they should share coverage with a pay channel (like they are doing for F1 and the Lakeside darts).

I think that Hearn's intentions with the PTCs are entirely correct, but he shouldn't think that he is beyond reproach - I just hope he can build up the prize fund across the ranking tournaments to an acceptable level, and that this doesn't end up in an unseemly challenge (led by Doyle or whoever).

It's ludicrous and offensive to compare a sports promoter to Stalin or Hitler. Prize money is up, there are more tournaments, more opportunities and more markets being tapped. If people are still unhappy then that says a lot more about them than the state of professional snooker.

PTC's are easy and low cost to put on, the public would prefer to take all these away and put on an additional 2 televised ranking tournaments. The focus for Hearn should be working with BBC and Sky Sports to ensure that these broadcasters are on side to present top flight action rather than spending more time dealing with PTC's, and I know the comments will come back the BBC are not interested and we are lucky to have what we have, well go back to them and work harder and sell it for cheaper because the sport will only grow with this kind of mainstream television coverage, not Eurosport and not PTCs, so if it's sold for buttons in the first instance to mainstream channels, the sport will grow and become more valuable. This is the route to take.

Before the season 2013/2014, we can only talk about these things, but one thing I have to emphasize many times that:

Snooker development is not only the responsibility of WPBSA, it's also the responsibility of continental association, especially ACBS and EBSA. There are too few tournaments, most amateurs just take the experiences from World Championship(Amateur), continental and national events.

The difference with golf and tennis is that both operate on a system of multiple tiers. Golf has the Challenger Tour and Nationwide Tour in Europe and America respectively while tennis operates a Challenger Tour and a Futures Tour beneath that.

This allows young players to develop their skills AND make a living before attempting to qualify for main tour events. Indeed, many tennis players can enjoy a successful and long career through challenger play alone. For tennis at least, the rankings are weighted in such a way that you can only get so high in the rankings before only main tour play can ensure further progression.

I wander if Hearn has considered such a system in snooker although it perhaps doesn't fit with his winners/losers philosophy.

This might also prevent the transformation of tournaments into "free for alls" with no seeding. Players starting out will have immediate opportunities to adjust to the nuances of being a pro while the viewer is not denied the opportunity to see the very best (who had to earn their place as well) play regularly in the most prestigious tournaments. Like most sports, snooker benefits from rivalries and a well-known cast of characters. In any case, it is hardly a closed shop. The rankings are more fluid than ever. Of course there are a number of faces that have been present since the mid nineties but then snooker offers a longer career at the highest level than other sports.

It is admirable that he is taking snooker by the scruff of the neck but it is troubling that he seems unwilling to even allow the players to have an opinion. After all, 35 of them made the most fundamental commercial decision of all - approving his control of World Snooker.

I would like to know who in the BBC is making these assumptions regarding what viewers want.

I fear the BBC has dumbed itself down hugely over the last few years and this is another example of that. The BBC1 offering in particular is not what it used to be. Unfortunately the licence fee is not optional and therein lies the problem.

On the plus side, it's nice to see the tournament return to York and also it's great that the Nugget is playing Ronnie in the first round.

Some of Hearn's comments are borderline offensive and certainly disrespectful to pro snooker players. Examples:

"To be honest, what they want is almost immaterial to me..."

"“It seems to me a lot of top players would rather be at home in bed than go out to work like the rest of us.

“The players job is to keep their mouths shut and play snooker."

These are rude comments and the boss of Snooker shouldn't be saying them. I suppose you have to give him credit for transforming the sport, he has given the sport a lot more events, but it seems his ego is getting out of control. He seems like a dictator - albeit a friendly one - out to control all aspects of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Ebdon, Higgins and O'Sullivan continue to be critical of his handling of the sport. The guy is a great businessman but he's got zero tact. You can't just dismiss the players' opinions, Barry, and yes, John Higgins is right - the players should have been consulted about the frame change to the UK Championship. It's a major event and Hearn should not change it without consulting the players. He would ignore their comments but at least he'd have GIVEN THE IMPRESSION he cared for their views!

Hearn could just as easily have said; 'That is why fans should watch whatever we present and not have opinions about formats, match lengths or sense of drama. Leave that to those of us who understand the commercial aspect'

Fans, players and any other person not in charge of running the sport are EXACTLY the ones to have a say on what is worth watching and supporting. Such as best of 17 matches at the UK being better than best of 7s in a Sheffield cubicle.

I love Barry but....

Clearly a lot of us, fans as well as players, discard his ideas and changes just like he does our criticism. So who was he listening to when he threw out Walker? The fans? Players? Who requested the cubicle PTCs? Was that an interpretation of the cry for more tournaments?

In the end, Barry will prove me wrong. That's all I cling to in order to still support him. But we know one thing. He can't be trusted anymore. He lied to us. That means something in my world.

Oh, and furthermore: PTCs are not the guiding light that showed us the potential of mainland Europe.

We had been crying out for someone to take advantage of the huge fanbase there for a long time (me being one of those fans) so PTCs where not really needed as there could have been set up normal proper rankers in a good handful of countries.

German Masters was epic. Had that too been a PTC it would have been 'okay' with 'nice crowds' and perhaps another set of granny twins but who, if anyone on Earth, would have preferred that?

Snooker in Europe was gold on the street that only needed to be picked up. We need to thank Eurosport for that - not an almost universally panned tournament concept that may cause more damage and disinterest in the booming regions than not going at all.

Regarding the BBC: they may have set up some demands but Barry 'Smooth Talker' Hearn could have shot them down, I'm sure. If they don't like long mathces they don't deserve the privilege of showing them. Don't like the World Championship format? No soup for you! On to the next channel. In the long run it would be a blessing to not rely on state television. This is not the 1940s.

Barry needs to play hardball with the beeb but I think the real truth is that he firmly agrees with them. We, the fans, love, love, love the drama of long matches. Almost all of us. There is no trend towards best of 5 or 7 being the delicious crowd pleasers. Perhaps Barry truly is bored with snooker as we know it. He may want the fast pace and "action" we see in Power "Snooker".

That makes it a bit of a problem having him in charge when he openly states that he could give a tihs about anyone's opinion.

Hearn's done a great job - not everything is perfect but neither will it ever be. I much prefer how it is now to the days of seven tournaments and as he says just doling out the money without trying anything new or different!

Quickly responding too something mentioned earlier: fans would rather see a couple of new "super" events.

You do realize that setting up any new event takes time to materialize. Sponsors aren't going to simply give WS 2m pounds to stage an event that no one will watch.

IMHO, Hearn is completely on the ball in starting with these PTCs: start them smallish, see where the interest is biggest (Germany, Belgium), and then develop them into full ranking events OR possibly tiered ranking events.

I have full confidence in his ability to do so, even though perhaps his attitude is somewhat arrogant. On the other hand, his track record speaks for itself.

I'd say, let's first see how it pans out in 1 or 2 years before judging. He clearly has a longer-term plan so let him develop it.

Barry Hearn actually describes himself as a "benevolent dictator"—I'm pretty sure I read that in a Dave Hendon article.

There is no need to play "hard ball" with the beeb. If they want to downgrade the tournament then it is their prerogative as the broadcaster and main finanicer. They don't have to explain or justify their decision. The WSA always had the option of terminating the contract, but it was smart not to, because the BBC is still its main partner. It's about time China had a major, so maybe it would be more productive if they pushed to upgrade the China Open, and make their two rankers distinguishable from each other. If China is serious about becoming a major player on the snooker scene then it will have to put its money where its mouth is eventually.

And wild, quit being a muppet. Snooker's viability in the UK depends entirely on a publicly funded state broadcaster, if it were left to market forces the professional game would be dead in this country. If you are that outraged write a letter to Points of View, but for God's sake run a spell-checker on it so you don't make the snooker fans of the country look illiterate.