Help me choose a Miele DW?

kmcgAugust 9, 2011

I'm sold on a Miele dishwasher in the broad sense, but am having a hard time deciding which one. It would have to be in the lower price tier, and I really don't need a lot of bells and whistles. Don't need a water softener or a bunch of different cycles (6 is probably 5 more than I would ever use). Any Miele would be sufficiently quiet. I think I would love a model with the cutlery tray. I like the plate protector load feature, which I think might be missing on the lowest model Futura.

Here's what I've seen at our local stores:

Two appealing discontinued models - (1) an Inspira in white (which is okay, but I also like stainless) without the cutlery tray for under $850-ish (love this price) and (2) an Optima in stainless for $1550-ish.

Between these 2 ends of my price spectrum are the new Futura models. The Classic in stainless runs just under $1300. It's a bit difficult to compare it to the Inspira; they both seem good, but would I be missing something major by going with the discontinued Inspira? And would I gain a lot by going with the Optima?

I don't need a DW urgently, but these closeouts have piqued my interest. I could buy now if these are truly good deals. If I wait, are there certain times of the year when I should watch for Miele promotions, such as extended warranty?

The discontinued Inspira for $850 is a good price, it would have to be the basic G2141 model, as it doesn't have the upper cutlery tray, 3rd spray arm, and water softener.
I believe it went for about $1100-1200 new.

The discontinued Optima (G2432SC) for $1550 is a good price, as it went for around $1700-1800 new. That's why I got the Diamante Plus (the in-between model) last year for $1450 new. You might ask if they have any of those left (G2143SC).

Between those two options you listed, I'd go with the Optima, since it would have the cutlery tray, a bit more quiet, the water softener, and a few extra features.

But is if you are looking at the newer Futura series, the Classic G4205SC at $1350 would be similar in features to the Inspira, but the Classic would have the cutlery tray, but still no water softener. At that price of $1350 for the Classic, you're only about $200 away from the discontinued Optima at $1550, or the new Crystal G5105SC at $1529 (which replaced the Diamante Plus). So based on that, I'd still say the Optima $1550 is the best deal here, unless you want the "newer" Futuras with the updated lower rack, which would be the Crystal at $1529.

When we were deciding as to which model to get last year, my mom wasn't that enthused about the cutlery tray, since the the GE Profile and Electrolux units we owned before had the standard cutlery basket on the lower rack.

But I was insistent on getting a unit with the cutlery rack, and now we know why....everything is so easy to load and remove. You can line-up all the spoons, forks, knives together, and when you take them out, you're not searching around for stuff. It is really worth having it.

The reason I went with the Diamante Plus was because it was the in-between model between the Inspira and Optima. The Optima was $400 more (close to $1800) and I couldn't see spending that much more, since the features were pretty close to the Diamante.

But for you, the close-out Optima at $1550 is a good price, and I would jump on that. The Futura Crystal G5105SC at $1529 is the replacement of my Diamante, and the only real difference is the redesigned lower basket, and it also now has the turbity sensor (which is on the Optima) that measures how dirty the water is from the food, and will increase or decrease wash times based on the soil level. So that's why I was saying the Optima at $1550 or Crystal at $1529 are what I'd go with.

The next step-up is the Dimension at $1750 (that replaces the Optima), which adds more features than the Crystal, and has the 3D Cutlery tray, which is a pretty interesting design. But it sounds like that's more than you'd want to spend.

Regardless of which one you get, you have the included 1-year Miele warranty. They use to extend it to 2-years if it was installed by a certified installer (mine was), but I've heard that they've done away with that extension on the new Futura models (you might want to call Miele to ask). Regardless, I did purchase the 5-year Miele extended warranty for $250, but it starts from the installation date, so it's really only a 4-year extended. But the good thing is that real Miele techs come out to do the service work, not just a "phonebook" plumber.

I put an Optima in our apartment and loved it. I think catmom has one as well so perhaps she'll weigh in.

First, I wouldn't get a Miele without a cutlery tray. Something would be missing.

I can't address the other models or the lighted vs non lighted issues. Lights in a DW seem counter intuitive to me (water + electricity) but the one posted here that was up and working sure looked great.

With the Optima you get Express cycle, which I used a lot. This takes about 40 minutes. I have an older Miele here in our house and I miss the Express, definitely.

With Optima you also get china & crystal cycle which doubles as a warm water/light wash. Not everyone needs it but for a dishaholic like me it's a must-have.

Optima has the fold-down tines on the back right side of on the bottom rack. That's where my big pots went and it was down most of the time. It also has other flexible rack adjustments including the split cutlery rack which can be handy when something in the second shelf is extra tall.

There may be more features that others would cite but those were the important ones for me. antss once described Optima as a "sweet spot," which I found to be true over 2 years of trouble-free use.

The Optima's sounding better and better! I never dreamed of putting china and crystal in a dishwasher :)

fauguy - I've searched for Diamante closeouts and the only one I can find is $1449. So the Optima still isn't much more.

A very experienced salesperson told me he doesn't recommend the extended warranty on Miele's. Maybe just a sales ploy, but I'll take it as refreshingly honest instead. I'd be interested in hearing how many of you bought the warranty.

If the older / discontinued models can be installed by a Miele-certified guy AND IF that gives you a second year of warranty, AND IF this doesn't happen with the current Futura models, that difference alone would sway me toward getting last years' stuff. Optima sounds good.

Yes, both the Diamante and Optima have the same wash modes (Pots/Pans, Normal, SaniWash, China Chrystal, Express, and Rinse). The lower baskets are also the same and has the two fold-down tines on the back-right that is useful for placing large pots. But the Optima does have the split/removable section on the cutlery rack, where the cutlery rack on the Diamante is all one-piece. The Diamante is rated at a Q2 quiet level, but the Optima is Q3, which both are pretty quiet. But you are finding them discontinued and only a $100 price difference, then the Optima is still a good choice.

Even though I've seen the new Futura models, I'm not sure I like the new design on the bottom rack. Looks like pots and pans might be more difficult to fit in there?

I also have a Miele Optima (purchased last Dec) and love it- we wanted the delay start option and the other programs on it were a bonus - like the china setting when the dishes are not that dirty. All of the adjustable racks and especially the cutlery tray are excellent.
We did not get the extended warranty.

I have a lot of china, including antique and vintage china and crystal which I put into the Excella and always have. It's a 115 wash and I've even done gold-rimmed plates without incidence with a tiny dose of detergent. But I have a cold-water hookup precisely for that purpose.

My Excella is going on 8 without a service call. The only difficulty I had was adjusting the settings due to a whole house softener (19 grains of hardness water). No extended waranty. Didn't have extended on the Optima either which I had for 2 years, really perfect and used twice a day sometimes.

BTW I was in an appliance store with a friend last week. They are about to remove the Optima and other floor models to make way for the Futuras so this appears to be the moment to snag a relative bargain, as someone else mentioned. It seems to be happening everywhere. Nice.

Gosh, I must be the only person that hates the cutlery tray. I have a 13 year old Miele and that's the thing that irritates me most--maybe they've redesigned it. It doesn't hold nearly the amount of silverware (standard Williams Sonoma brand) that the baskets do. All the pieces have to lie on their side, meaning that most spoons & forks don't get hit with the spray. Every single load has at least 1-3 pieces that have to be re-scrubbed and re-washed. And it's very time consuming to slot each individual piece in its little spot. The miele is quiet (though I've had a Bosch that beat it). The salt dispenser is a pain and I have to order the salt.My standard dinner plates don't fit well. The rinse-aid dispenser door two years ago. In general, it leaves A LOT of food on things. When it dies I'll get a Bosch

We just "Toss" the siverware in that tray, doesn't matter the silverware is sideways, upside down, or whatever, they always get cleaned, just fine.

We have a whole house water softener (Hot side only) Miele is connected to the hot side, soooo I don't mess with salt, and the water softener keeps the Miele "Pristine" inside as well as our tubs, showers and sinks.

I've never seen the inside of a 13 year-old Miele, but does yours have the large spray arm on the very top, that would spray down on the cutlery rack?
I know they've had it on the past two model series, and on the new Futura line as well.

When using the Diamante Plus that I got last year, it's installed to the left side of the sink. When I open the the cutlery rack, it is to the left of me.
So I place all the spoons, forks, knives and other silverware all on the right side of the rack. In the middle section is where a larger stirring ladle would go, and on the right side is where I place "other" items. I've really never had an issue of everything fitting, and they all come out clean.

Thanks for posting the dissenting view, acmesarah. At least your DW is still viable after 13 years! If you've experienced a change in cleaning levels, I wonder if it could be because of the phosphate free detergents.

Comparing the Inspira and Optima, I see that the latter doesn't have the Economy cycle, and has China and Crystal instead. Does anyone have any idea if Economy or Express could be a reasonable cycle for fine china?

I'm still on the fence; want the Optima with its cutlery basket, but keep reminding myself that it's $700 more than the Inspira! $700 is more than I've ever spent on any DW, so it's a little daunting to even think about splurging to the tune of $1600. I guess I need to check out inventory at a few other stores...

Over the past year, I've timed all the wash cycles on my Diamante Plus.
The Express mode does a 5 minute wash, 5 minute rinse, and a 5 minute final rinse (with rinse aid dispensed), so that's 15 min plus drying. In the few times that I've tried the Express mode, it's just not a long enough wash cycle to clean everything, since it's only 5 minutes with the detergent, before it drains and rinses twice. But I've heard others say that on the Optima, the Express wash is actually about 40 minutes total, through I'm not sure what the actual wash time is with the detergent.

The China Crystal mode on the Diamante Plus does a 10 minute pre-wash, 10 minute wash with detergent, 10 minute rinse, and a 10 minute final rinse with rinse aid dispensed. I've used this a few times, and items do come out more clean than using the Express mode, due to the 10 minute wash cycle with detergent. The China Crystal mode also keeps the water temp down lower, since it's intended purpose is to be "sensitive" enough not to damage china and crystal.

The Normal mode does two 15 minute pre-washes (which I don't understand the need for two), then a 45 minute main wash with detergent, then a 15 minute final rinse with rinse aid dispensed. So that's 1 hour 30 minutes + drying. I do use this mode, but wish that it had an "interim rinse" between the main wash and the final rinse, just to make sure all the detergent is rinsed away.

The Pots Pans mode is what I use the most. It does a 10 minute pre-wash, a 60 minute main wash with detergent, 10 minute rinse, and a 20 minute final rinse with rinse aid dispensed. So that's 1 hour 40 minutes + drying. I like this mode, since it has the longest wash cycle at 60 minutes, and has an interim rinse before the final rinse. The water temps are also about 12 degrees hotter than the Normal mode.

The Sani Wash mode I never use. It does a 30 minute wash with detergent, two 15 minute rinses, and then a final 30 rinse with rinse aid dispensed and the water temp is raised to about 160 degrees to sanitize during the final rinse.

There is a "Turbo" button on the Diamante Plus (and Optima) that cuts the different wash/rinse modes down by 25-35%. I've used it with both the Normal and Pots Pans mode on occasion, and it cut the overall time by 15-25 minutes.

You said the Inspira was $850 (about a $300 discount), Diamante Plus was $1450, and Optima was $1550 ($300 discount). Which model of the Diamante Plus was that, the G2143SC or the G2183SCFS? The G2143SC was $1450 when I got it new last year and the G2183SCFS was $1600 since it has the hidden control panel. If they are still selling the G2143SC for $1450, then it's not being discounted at all, and I'm ask them why not, but if it's the G2143SCFS for $1450, then they are only taking $150 off the price.

I'm not sure about the wash times of the "Economy" mode on the Inspira, but my guess is that would similar to the Normal mode with the Turbo option used on the Diamante or Optima. If the $700 difference in price is too much to swing for the Optima, then maybe go with the Diamante Plus, as it's $100 less. You could also haggle some with the dealer and may get them to come down another $50-100 on the units if they want to get rid of the inventory.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown on the cycles. (Do your real-life friends realize you moonlight as a Miele expert? :)

I did some more shopping today, and found a Diamante Plus G2143SC for $1300 - didn't see it though, and I think it may have been a floor model. Might be worth going to look at. The Diamante I mentioned before was an online seller - apparently not a bargain!

Another store had a couple very good deals - an Optima for 1200, but wrong color, and a La Perla for 1750. It's the panel ready model with the exposed controls. What an amazing machine!

I also happened to see a couple Asko DWs that were really good deals, and I have a soft spot for all things Swedish. Now I need to do more research. Obviously these are the top 2 brands for longevity, but I've heard rumblings about Asko reliability that I need to investigate.

I bought my Miele Inspira about 3 months ago and I still love it so much I actually enjoy doing my dishes. I assume eventually the love affair will wear off, but for now a typically monotonous chore is a pleasure!

Mine has the cutlery tray which I absolutely LOVE. It takes a bit longer to load if you want to maximize how much you can get into it ... but it also makes unloading a breeze, the cutlery is sorted already. It's great for things I was always fishing out of the bottom of my old dishwasher (like chopsticks). I never have anything come out needing rewashing from the cutlery tray, even if it isn't sideways ... just thrown in willy nilly. If I had to buy another dishwasher now I'd put the Miele cutlery tray on the top of my must haves list.

The cutlery tray isn't the only great thing, it's quiet, has enough ways to reconfigure the tray height and dividers to make it very versatile and enough cycle options for me. And it cleans everything very well (that's the point anyway, right?) I don't "prewash" all my dishes, but do try to make sure they are free of large chunky bits since the Miele's don't have a garberator

I wasn't sure about the apparent smaller useable volume in comparison to things like the massive KitchenAid models but I find it more than adequate for what I need. Besides, it's quiet enough that if I have to do an extra load in the middle of my day it isn't a bother (quiet was a huge need for me, my house is very open concept and my previous dishwasher made so much noise it was difficult to have a conversation in the livingroom!)

I was lucky enough to buy during a promotion that offered 10 years extended warranty at no charge. I'm not sure how often that happens, but was another selling feature for me at the time.

Wanted to drop by and say Thanks for your thread. I learned about the discontinued models reading here yesterday, did some searching in my local area, and managed to buy a LaPerla today. It would have passed me right by had it not been for your discussion. Thanks so much!!!

Did you buy it in Canada? I know up there they do those 10-year warranty extension specials from time-to-time, but they don't in the US.

kmcg,

A Diamante Plus G2143SC floor model for $1300 is about $150 less than I paid less year for a new one. Do you know how long it's been on display?
A La Perla for $1750 is also a good price, but if its the panel ready version, then you'd have to get a wood panel on the front, or buy Miele's stainless steel panel and handle, which would add on a few hundred $. So you probably don't want to deal with that.

Indeed, fauguy, I'm in Canada. Wonder why they offer 10 year warranty here an not in the US? Curious. Here we pretty much NEVER get Miele on any sort of sale or deal, all is essentially priced as listed on the website. Instead the company offers "value added" services like the extra warranty or free installation or some such bonus whenever they are feeling generous.

I bought my W4842/T9822 in Feb of this year with a 10 year free bonus upgrade. It's the thing that convinced me to spend that kind of $$$ on the machines. It's actually several things you get - they call it the "Miele Advantage Plus" package. You can read about the different levels of follow up care from Miele.

I also received $100 in free Miele Care product (of my choice), 2 passes to the Miele Culinary Institute, among several other "perks".

When I bought my dishwasher for 40% off I only received a 1 year warranty and no added perks. Hopefully all will run smoothly with it.

Because retailers in Canada do not stock Miele items (all purchases are shipped from Miele and installed my Miele) no retailer here had any "deals" with the switch over to new machines. The deals were directly with Miele at the warehouse location.

athomesewing - I'm so glad the thread helped! And jealous of your La Perla!! I wish I could make a decision so quickly. I have several complications, including the need to find a compatible fridge that fits in a small space, and a husband who thinks maybe we ought to start washing dishes by hand...

fauguy - I didn't get details on the Diamante. Basically this was a salesman running down the list on his computer of all the closeout Miele's they have, including ones in various stores and their warehouse. Helpful info, but not easy to personally see all of them.

Mission accomplished! Did a final round of shopping today, and bought a Diamante Plus in stainless. I'm so excited! It was a floor model but in perfect shape, and the salesman helped locate all the parts needed to install it. Price was $1100, so I'm really glad I kept looking.

So they came down from $1300 to $1100 for the Diamante, or was that two different dealers?
Even though it was a floor model, I guess it's never been hooked-up and used...most aren't.
Were you installing it yourself or having them do it?

Hi fauguy
you know you can get into a service programming mode and add an additional interim rinse to all programmes, it also allows you to raise the main wash temperature as well in most programmes except China and Crystal cycle for obvious reasons. So with the Normal programme it will give you an interim rinse

fauguy - this was a different store within a larger local chain. It may have been the same Diamante quoted from the day before off the computer, but there were a few others too. It felt kind of like buying a car; the price seemed to change every time I asked someone new!

After getting a bunch of tips from one of their installers, my brother and I will do the installation. It sounds straightforward, although I've yet to determine whether I have an outlet in the current location.

Make sure you have a TORX screwdriver set, as that is used on the four side-mounting screws. The water intake and drain house come already connected to the unit, but I'm not sure about the power cable. Make sure the drain hose has a High Loop Arc before connecting to the sink/garbage disposal. That will keep water from the sink from going down the drain hose.

Now I need to get the right detergent. I know fauguy uses Miele brand rinse aid. Anyone have other brands that work? Same for detergent? I was at costco yesterday wondering if I should buy some of the Finish tabs with the little red ball... I'll search for other threads, but if anyone wants to jump in with suggestions, that would be great.

If you find my other thread, you'll see that I used Miele detergent tabs, but their newer ones that are phosphate free caused a lot of suds in the unit during washing (look at the pics I posted). I have now been using the Method Smarty tabs that are sold at Target. They clean just as well (only use a half tab at a time) and I'm got getting any suds from them. I'd suggest you give then a try. The bag of 20 Method tabs was $4, but since I break them in half, it gives 40 washes.

I know there have been quite a few people in here that had a positive response to the Finish Quantum with the red ball (rinse aid). But some have said they get the residue issue and the slight chemical smell. I've never had that problem with the Miele tabs (new or original formula) or the Method Smarty tabs that I've been using for a month now. In fact, the only reason I tried the Method tabs is because the newer Miele tabs were causing the suds, which tripped the over-flow switch in the unit, thus causing it to be in drain-mode. But after using the Method tabs a month, I've had no suds, and no over-flow switch trip. It still cleans just as well.

They were just out here last month about the issue I had with the (new) Miele tabs creating suds, and it tripping the overflow switch in the lower pan. I ended up changing to Method Smarty tabs, and no longer get the suds. The tech opened up the bottom panel and could see where some suds/water got in there (now dried residue), and checked the gasket seals and said they were good, but he never hooked the PC up to the unit.

If you can tell me the steps to make the changes via the control buttons on the front, I'd appreciate it (no LCD on the Diamante Plus). Even though it's under warranty, I'm not sure about calling them up just because I want an interim rinse added to the Normal cycle. Like I said, that's why I use the Pots/Pans cycle, since it has the interim rinse before the final rinse.

I've never heard or seen that brand before. I wonder if they sell it in the US?
But the Method Smarty tabs (half) I've been using for a month now, and haven't had any issues with them. I was in Target earlier this week, and they were sold out of them.

deeag - congrats on a great deal! That matches the very lowest price I got on the same dishwasher, and I thought it was a steal (but still beyond my budget!)

fauguy - I thought your photos of washes in progress were pretty amazing. I had no idea what a difference the detergent could make. Glad you found the Smarty tabs. (my Target has the Smarty tabs, so at least you can rest assured they still carry them.)

I am wondering if I can use liquid detergent when I get the new Miele. I just found, in the back of the mystery cupboard under the sink, a huge jug of liquid Costco brand with phosphates, and am tempted to try it. Any suggestions as to how much?

I would be cautious about trying a mystery liquid detergent in a new expensive Miele. I think liquid detergent like that may have an expiration date?
If you're going to try it, get a tablespoon (or even a teaspoon) and measure it out that way. The Miele doesn't use a lot of water, so they don't need a lot of detergent. Don't just fill up the detergent door full with the liquid.

I'm really amazed at the suds that your machine had when using the new Miele tabs. I ran a cycle last night with one and opened the door half way through the main wash and there was not a sign of suds, similar to you using the Smarty dish tabs and I used a whole tab and my water hardness is 3 degrees. I also use Somat 9 which I bought when I was in Germany and Finish Quantum, we still get the phosphate version here.

To get into the programming here are the steps:
1.Press and hold the Start/Stop button.
2.Switch on the unit.
3.Release the Start/Stop button.
4.Immediately press the Start/Stop button 5 times and at the 5th time, hold until the Start/Stop LED flashes.
5.Release the Start/Stop button.
If the Start/Stop LED does not light up, repeat the procedure.
6.Press the Delay start button 26 times.
7.The Pre-wash (rinse & hold) LED flashes 2 times slowly and 6 times rapidly.
Setting options:
Wash/Rinse LED is off = Standard setting; Wash/Rinse LED flashes = Second interim rinse selected
8.Press the Start/Stop button as appropriate to make the desired setting.
Save and quit
9.Switch off the unit.

I'm not sure why the newer (phosphate free) Miele tabs are creating so much suds in my unit. When I emailed the pics to Miele, and showed them to the techs that came to the house, all they could suggest was to use less...even though I was only using 1/2 tab at that time, and ended up using 1/4 tab (equal to one-half teaspoon). I've been using the Method Smarty half-tabs for the past month, and don't get any suds with those. But since I only have a few left, last night I used some of the Miele detergent that I had left, and checked it mid-wash, and once again there was some suds.
The Miele techs did do a hard water test, and said I was at 5 grains. The Diamante Plus water softener is set to 5-7 grains, but I have tried the lower setting at 0-4 grains, but it didn't make a difference with the amount of the suds.

Thanks for posting the steps for adding an interim rinse. Does this add an interim rinse to all the wash cycles, or just to the Normal wash cycle? From the factory, my Diamante Plus using the Normal cycle does 2 pre-washes, 1 main wash with detergent, and then a final rinse with the rinse aid. That's why I've been using the Pots & Pans cycle, since it does 1 pre-wash, 1 main wash, 1 interim rinse, and 1 final rinse with rinse aid. What is interesting is that the new Futura models (G5000 series) has the Normal cycle with an interim rinse showing in the user manual. I guess they decided to add an interim rinse in the new models.

I've now gone into the service menu per your instructions to the #26 setting and the Rinse LED was off, so I pressed the Start/Stop button so the LED would flash once. When I run it Tuesday night, I'll do the Normal cycle just to verify there is now an interim rinse between the main wash and final rinse.

I also checked the other service settings and saw that #36 flashes once, #38 flashes once, and #39 flashes 3 times and can be adjusted to flash 1-6 times. Do you know what these mean via a service manual, or could it be emailed to me?

postion 36 is to set the machine height no need to adjust, position 38 is the model setting no need to adjust and position 39 is the country variant setting. If you change this the machine will make the wash programmes behave differently and also the order of the programmes will change.
For example your programme order is
Pots and pans
Normal
China & crystal
Sani wash
Express
Rinse and hold.

If you change it to the EU version you get
Sensor wash 55-65°C
Quick wash 40°C
Light soiling 50°C
Energy Save
Pots and pans 75°C
Prewash

Mr Wash,
With the setting changed to #26 in the service menu, I ran the Normal cycle tonight, but it did not add an interim rinse. It did two 10 minute pre-washes, 30 minute main wash with detergent, and a 30 minute final rinse with rinse aid. This is what it has done before when using the Normal cycle.
After it was done drying, I went back to the #26 setting and verified the Rinse LED was flashing for it.
I wonder if adding the interim rinse might be a different setting on this model?

Ok, I'll try the other programs (pots/pans, china, sani) and see if there is any extra interim rinse with those. The factory default has the Pots/Pans & China modes with an interim rinse and then final rinse, the Sani with two interim rinses and then the final rinse.

I ran the Pots/Pans program this morning, and instead of doing one interim rinse it did two interim rinses, and then the final rinse.
So the #26 in the service menu did add a 2nd interim rinse to the Pots/Pans program, but the Normal program is still without any interim rinse before the final rinse.
This is weird.

I also just tried the Express program, and nothing was changed on it.
Still does a 5 minute wash, 5 minute interim rinse, and 5 minute final rinse. So it didn't add a 2nd interim rinse to that one. I never use the Express program because it's just to short (5 min main wash) to clean well.

I'll do the China/Crystal program tonight and see if it has been changed.

By the way, are there any other settings in the Service Menu that might be worth changing?

There are the following that you may want to consider:
Position 20: Increase main wash temp. This would make your Express main wash longer and the other programmes except Normal and C & C hotter
Position 23: Increase water quantity. Adds about 1/2 quart more water per fill.
Position 27: Improved drying. Increases final rinse temp and extends drying phase

Ok thanks. I might give those a try.
I'm not sure what the main was temp is supposed to be for the different programs, but I have measured the wash temp my self in the Pots/Pans and it was 147 degrees. I think someone said before that the Normal program is about 135, and the China Crystal is 110.
Do you know how much higher the #20 setting increases the main wash temp by? I wouldn't want it too hot where it might damage items.

The #23 for adding 0.5 quart of extra water in the fill would be about 0.2 gallons (looking at a unit conversion site), which doesn't seem like a lot. I think the manual says the dishwasher fills with 1.2 gallons in each cycle, or about 4.8 gallons total when using the Normal program - as it has 4 cycles.

I've only had an issue with drying (and cleaning) when using the Express program. Maybe the combination of the #20 for extra water temp, #23 for more water, and #27 for hotter rinse might make the Express program more useable.

Going by my table the Pots and Pans cycle heats the main wash to 75�C (167�F), the Normal programme heats to 50�C (130�F) and C & C to 45�C (113�F). The Express wash heats to 40�C (104�F). With the temp increase it would affect maybe the Normal programme to 60�C (140�F) and the Express wash to 50�C (120�F). As P & P uses the hottest temp it would be affected. I think your Sani wash goes to 65�C (150�F).

Today I ran the unit empty with the Express Wash program before making any of the other changes to the service menu. I timed all the cycles and measured the water level.
Then I went into the service menu and engaged the #20, #23, and #27, as #26 was already activated.
I then ran the Express program again. All that I could tell was different was the water level. Instead of it being just below the horizontal handle on the filter, it was to the middle of the handle, about 0.5 inch more water. But the rest of the program times were unaffected, as it still did a 5 minute main wash, 4 minute interim rinse, and 4 minute final rinse, and then a 5 minute dry with fan.

So with those items activated in the service menu, the only one that works in conjunction with the Express program is the #23 for the extra water fill.

By the way, the unit is connected to the hot water line in the house, which the water heater is set to 140F. But there is about 50 feet of pipe in the walls to connect the two. Maybe since the water is hot when filling the unit, that is why it didn't increase the temp and wash time?

I'll have to try it now with the Pots/Pans program to see if there are any differences in the temp and cycle times.

Last night I did the Pots/Pans program with all those settings activated in the service menu. I noticed that during the pre-wash there was more water (middle of filter handle), but in the main wash and rinses the water amount was normal (below handle).
Here are the times: pre-wash 10 minutes, main wash 70 minutes (water temp said 157 F on my baking thermometer near the end of the cycle), first 5 minute interim rinse, second 5 minute interim rinse, 35 minute final rinse (thermometer read 142 F), and then 45 minute dry with the lower fan on.

Without those settings activated in the service menu, the Pots/Pans would normally do a pre-wash 10 minutes, main wash 60 minutes (temps read 147 F), one 5 minute interim rinse, 25-30 minute final rinse (haven't measured the temp), and then a 20 minute dry with the lower fan on.

Keep in mind the few times I've done a temp measurement, I was using a cooking thermometer that I'd have to place in the water for a minute to get a reading.

So using the Pots/Pans program it does appear that the #23 for extra water only happens in the pre-wash (not main wash, interim rinse, or final rinse), the #20 for increase temp did raise the main wash water an extra 10F and washed for 10 minutes longer, the #26 does do a 2nd interim rinse, and the #27 for improved drying did increase the final rinse cycle time by about 10 minutes and then the drying mode increased 20 minutes with the fan on.

I'll have to check the Normal program to see if any of those settings will effect it, but I already know that the #26 does not add any interim rinse to the Normal mode, since I tried that one on Monday.

I found a stainless Advanta on closeout for ~$1050 (a bit high?) - We decided against it after reading here that it was an even older discontinued model than all of last years models that are on the market in various places right now, plus it has a cheaper drying cycle etc...

I would love to find a discontinued Meile with the cutlery tray - but don't think I will...

I have had my Miele La Perla for five months, I never notice anything going on during the cycle so I guess that is a good thing, and the price of 1699 is a great price, I gave 2500 for mine, and then to boot it just cost me $180 to have Geek Squad come out and install the remote vision. It is harder than it seems. I am wondering just exactly if it is worth it to have. I use Cascade and have never noticed anything wrong with my dishes, I use the china/crystal program most of the time. Gosh I am wondering if I am missing something, I just put them in, turn it on and walk away but then perhaps that is where the remote vision will come into play. Miele is a great product, the DW is my first, but we are remodeling and all my appliances are going to be Miele. I love how quiet it is, if it were not for the red light I would not know it was running.

All the remote vision is going to do in a dishwasher is if there is fault during the operation, such as an overflow, not filling with water, water not draining, etc, it will send an alert to Miele over your home WiFi, and they will contact you about it. To me, it seems like a waste of money on their dishwasher, washer and dryer, but might be good to have on the refrigerator, just in case there was a cooling issue.

montel,
An Advanta is the pre Inspira model, that was discontinued about 4 years ago I think. If a store is selling it for $1050, that is a bit much, would expect $700-800 on it. I guess you can't find anyone local selling discontinued last-years models? If you're going to invest in a Miele, it makes sense to get one with the cutlery rack.

fauguy,
Yes I agree it is overpriced - we do want the cutlery rack, just not sure how much we will have to spend. We are doing some looking this weekend plus plan to over Labor Day hoping there are some sales.

I just bought a Miele Futura Dimension G5505SCU and I was wondering if anybody knows whether there is a programming mode like the older models where you can increase water fill and add in second interim rinse?

I called Miele service line and the woman just said no and told me the dishwasher has salt dispenser.... it was obvious she was flipping through the user manual... pretty useless help there.