I have run a trials tire in sand before and it worked fine. The problem of course is that they suck at higher speeds. The new harder compound trials tire might do just fine on a bike like a husaberg etc.

__________________
Seth S

My intuition nearly makes up for my lack of good judgement. Just installed my new trolling motor

I have LOTS of routes that are legal and AWESOME and virtually unused by anyone but occasional hunters at most. This is all of the stuff I had intended on a giant loop(4-6 days worth) of circumnavicating AZ, regardless of season(and only limited by snowpack on the Mogollon RIm or in the Mingus Mountains...

I spend a lot of time making sure the route avoids all the Designated Wilderness and otherwise illegal areas. It's not hard to find legal routes. What's a bit harder is finding the best routes, and stringing them all together with a good mix of challenges, proper mileages for gas stops, and good "bivouac" locations. Also, keep in mind about 30% of the route is outside BLM, Forrest Service, and National Park land.

No plans to go there . . . yet. Should I aim for this thing being 5000 miles instead of 4000? Are you nuts?

We've all got a screw or two loose, or else we wouldn't even be here talking about any of this...LOL.

Not sure how you do it but here's my take: When I started looking at doing what you are already adept at in AZ here, I sort of overlayed maps in my mind, starting with the first one as a map of the major networks of singletrack trails south of I-40. As you do, I then isolate and lay out all fuel and food sources, and put them on the master map. Then, I look for the coolest routes of dualsport-style riding, forgotten mining roads, water drainages/sandwashes that can go between them.

When I do this in this order, the scenery and remoteness off of the tracks always just seem to fall into place. Lastly, once I know that remoteness is established in certain areas, I look for areas where a HP heading or three can be put in safely.

Sometimes, as you state, the access for chase vehicles and bivouacing throws a monkeywrench in the works, but it's usually not a huge force of compromises.

The areas you are looking at all have generally similar weather and temperature patterns, all being on the Colorado Plateu for the most part. The areas I'm talking about are tougher to schedule, because they can easily be snowed in for ~4 months of the year or way, way to hot to ride during the day for the opposite 4 months of the year. The reward is that from Young to Payson to Fountain Hills, for example, you go through multiple types of forests and get a full range of anythign from tight woods in the pine trees to wide open desert sandwashes.

You probably already know this, but the Coconino National Forest(most of Northern Arizona that is not State land, or reservation) just recently changed their policy for motorized travel to "Closed unless marked." It used to be the opposite, and when I was growing up in Flagstaff we could pretty much go where ever we wanted in the forest up there...perfect for rally training, but now it's gone...

Scott, I know you mentioned before that you already have a good group of guys that help you scout these routes. I was wondering, though, if you had any interest in a different group, me included, running some of the new routes after you complete them, as some kind of final test, or if you do that yourself? The advantage of a non-related group being, of course, the fact they have no previous knowledge of the route and would be a great sounding board for the road book being correct/accurate/good.

Honestly I'm just trying to find a way/excuse to get out west and ride these routes sometime soon

You probably already know this, but the Coconino National Forest(most of Northern Arizona that is not State land, or reservation) just recently changed their policy for motorized travel to "Closed unless marked."

My current route barely touches Coconino, somewhat for that reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc42

Now Scott, you have been an ADV guy long enough to know not to ask that question here

There's average "nuts", then there is nuts on the ADV scale. My comment was already calibrated to the ADV end of the scale! Nobody could possibly ride all this in one trip without a full Dakar budget and chase crew with mechanics and spare parts. After prerunning just 1 or 2 stages over a weekend, my butt is kicked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miguez

Scott, I know you mentioned before that you already have a good group of guys that help you scout these routes. I was wondering, though, if you had any interest in a different group, me included, running some of the new routes after you complete them, as some kind of final test, or if you do that yourself? The advantage of a non-related group being, of course, the fact they have no previous knowledge of the route and would be a great sounding board for the road book being correct/accurate/good. Honestly I'm just trying to find a way/excuse to get out west and ride these routes sometime soon

All "scouting" happens on my computer. And the roadbook is made based on that. Then we "prerun" the route using the roadbook. So, the prerun IS the final test. You're thinking creatively, which is cool, but not creatively enough I guess. And don't start sending me bottles of wine or such. I don't drink. Also, keep in mind the riding should be a lot more fun once everything is done. In the preruns we have to stop a lot to make notes, deal with unexpected blockages, and other problems that take away from the fun. The prerun before last was a big failure and no fun for most who came along. It's cool that people seem to like what's coming and want to join in before it's done, but there's just no practical way to do the preruns with more than a couple of people. And those select people have been putting in their rally dues for several years. Even super guys like Neduro don't get an invite most of the time, even though he's asked. It's killing me to turn so many of my best friends away. But everyone has to wait for the big party door to open, which is still a while off.

While you all are thinking about this, I'm curious what part of the Grand Rally makes you want to do it? Is it the the cool terrain, or the rally style roadbook navigation, or the rally oriented people involved, or the idea of a long challenging adventure, or what?

There's average "nuts", then there is nuts on the ADV scale. My comment was already calibrated to the ADV end of the scale! Nobody could possibly ride all this in one trip without a full Dakar budget and chase crew with mechanics and spare parts. After prerunning just 1 or 2 stages over a weekend, my butt is kicked.

All "scouting" happens on my computer. And the roadbook is made based on that. Then we "prerun" the route using the roadbook. So, the prerun IS the final test. You're thinking creatively, which is cool, but not creatively enough I guess. And don't start sending me bottles of wine or such. I don't drink. Also, keep in mind the riding should be a lot more fun once everything is done. In the preruns we have to stop a lot to make notes, deal with unexpected blockages, and other problems that take away from the fun. The prerun before last was a big failure and no fun for most who came along. It's cool that people seem to like what's coming and want to join in before it's done, but there's just no practical way to do the preruns with more than a couple of people. And those select people have been putting in their rally dues for several years. Even super guys like Neduro don't get an invite most of the time, even though he's asked. It's killing me to turn so many of my best friends away. But everyone has to wait for the big party door to open, which is still a while off.

While you all are thinking about this, I'm curious what part of the Grand Rally makes you want to do it? Is it the the cool terrain, or the rally style roadbook navigation, or the rally oriented people involved, or the idea of a long challenging adventure, or what?

Great reply Scott. I totally get it, but it's not enough to stop me from dreaming a way in .

I'll be the first to admit that when I ride, I don't pay much attention to the scenery. I know, some of you are thinking I'm nuts. Well, I am! I'm a pilot, and started flying before riding. I'm also unusual in the sense that I learned to fly instruments before flying visually (long story), so from an early age I was "trained" to not look outside. Unfortunately, it stuck.

My satisfaction would come from one thing: facing the navigation challenge and getting it right. The rest is bonus. I'd love to meet some of you, and I'm sure the landscape is amazing, but the former is what would get my juices flowing. Like when I fly an instrument approach down to minimums and get it right, there's no feeling like that in the world.

A close second would be the break downs and mistakes. I LOVE punishment, and like to try and fix things when they break. A devious, malicious part of me is always wishing the bike to break down in the middle of nowhere, or to get stuck deep in some dunes without help in sight.

While you all are thinking about this, I'm curious what part of the Grand Rally makes you want to do it? Is it the the cool terrain, or the rally style roadbook navigation, or the rally oriented people involved, or the idea of a long challenging adventure, or what?

Roadbook Navigation and the terrain. And the adventure, of course.

__________________"What these people need is some mental psychology."-Bonnie Abbzug

While you all are thinking about this, I'm curious what part of the Grand Rally makes you want to do it? Is it the the cool terrain, or the rally style roadbook navigation, or the rally oriented people involved, or the idea of a long challenging adventure, or what?

All of the above. I like the idea of being able to go out and run a few stages in a trip, then come back to run a few more. Kind of like a trip to Moab every spring and fall, except go and run a few rally stages. Really looking forward to see the final product.

I agree, its all the above. HArd to put one of those above another, when I dont have an ulterior motive. I would just love to have an adventure riding in an awesome place, getting navigation experience with like-minded knuckleheads like me. Yep, that about covers it