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Toying with the idea of reducing my "investment" in yachting and selling my Jeanneau and getting a much cheaper yacht that is designed for racing and will be much more competitive than my Jeanneau (ok, not too hard). I would race it on the bay and eventually some cat 3 races like the L2H and any ORCV cat 3 races.

I'd like a Sydney 38 but I think if I was to sell my Jeanneau I should look for cheaper boats so I'm thinking a max of $80k AUD. That $80k perhaps should be for a boat with near new main/genoa/jib or a lower upfront price for a boat with older sails.

I'm not sure what make/model yachts to look out for that would perhaps suit my requirements. Any suggestions what to keep an eye out for?

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I saw the thread but could not find a Sydney 41 on boatsales. I'm rather go a little smaller than my current boat partly because I'm already pushing the maximum for my pen size at RMYS and new sails will be cheaper (thus less issues with the admiral)

Do the older design boats benefit in having a bowsprit and asymmetrics like they did with the Elliot 10.5? or does it come at a handicap cost that can negate the benefits?

NSX36 is a good option if you are a competitive sailor with a good helmsman and crew. Elliott boats like 10.5 are marginal with Assys unless you go to really big motherfucker blot out the sun assys like some have done in Auckland,

Most older boats gain little benefit from assys because they are just too heavy to generate the speed needed to cover the extra distance. Rule of thumb: if it wasn't originally designed with an assy, dont fuck with it. Most racing here is w/l anyway so non-planing boats with assys will always struggle against deep running symm boats on those courses.

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Go the Mumm36, But might want to try and get it a bit cheaper and find a swept back spreader rig for it, Cookson built boat alot better than the Carroll built ones

Second that, sweet boats and the Cookson build quality was excellent. Original tin rig a bit of a pain, it's true so yes, a swept spreader carbon replacement would be a good option.

The Mumm 36 won a design competition to be the Admirals Cup 36 foot one design back in the early 90s, the NSX 36 was Scott Jutson's entry in the same competition IIRC. Ed Psaltis ran one for a while and hated it, but there are a few sailing around in Sydney doing OK, including Ed's old boat.

As to A-sails, while NSX 36 was not originally designed for one it may be a good investment. The IRC rule has long rated heavy boats with A-sails pretty favourably, though less so now than it once did. The Mumm 36 is relatively light and as long as you have enough crew weight on to generate stability I'd imagine they do OK with A-sails.

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Buy the Young 11 Outside Edge for sale in Qld. Pete has looked after it really well. Might be an old design, but downwind in pressure you will embarrass plenty of bigger budget programs. Sorry, don't know how to paste the link on an iPad, but it comes up in a google search "Young 11 for sale".

Interesting boat. Sydney sister I recall at RPA was nothing flash. Road Freight to Melbs from Busselton including de-rig and pack up then re-rig, launch and re-commission is going to add a shitload to costs so you would need to pay not much more than $65 k for it to meet your budget landed and sailing over here. Depends how much he is prepared to sell it for.

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It's all food for thought. Sounds line the A-sails can be skipped. Although perhaps a code zero could be good in light winds on a longer race, especially for a fractional rigger?

I would love a Sun Fast 3200 but they are maybe still more expensive than my SO40

Hoppy, Come and see me on the Jeanneau stand at the Sydney Boat Show August 3, 4 or 5 (it runs til Aug 7 but I head home after Sat 5) and I will show you over the new, upgraded model Sunfast 3200. We can talk about your SO40 too. PM me for contact details.

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Hoppy, Come and see me on the Jeanneau stand at the Sydney Boat Show August 3, 4 or 5 (it runs til Aug 7 but I head home after Sat 5) and I will show you over the new, upgraded model Sunfast 3200. We can talk about your SO40 too. PM me for contact details.

Do you have a special price on the SF3200 at $80k at the show?

Won't be making the show as the missus and 6mth old daughter get back from a month in Europe.

I take it you work for 38 South? My SO40 is on the same dock as the 39i you have listed and I can see it's mast in one photo

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Elliott boats like 10.5 are marginal with Assys unless you go to really big motherfucker blot out the sun assys like some have done in Auckland,

Most older boats gain little benefit from assys because they are just too heavy to generate the speed needed to cover the extra distance. Rule of thumb: if it wasn't originally designed with an assy, dont fuck with it. Most racing here is w/l anyway so non-planing boats with assys will always struggle against deep running symm boats on those courses.

Hi Hoppy

The Elliott is setup for both both Assy and Sym options. We never took the mast track and car off, just added the bowsprit so we could add A sails that block out the sun. She only weighs 4 tonne so is wicked fun on a reach.

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NSX36 is a good option if you are a competitive sailor with a good helmsman and crew. Elliott boats like 10.5 are marginal with Assys unless you go to really big motherfucker blot out the sun assys like some have done in Auckland,

Most older boats gain little benefit from assys because they are just too heavy to generate the speed needed to cover the extra distance. Rule of thumb: if it wasn't originally designed with an assy, dont fuck with it. Most racing here is w/l anyway so non-planing boats with assys will always struggle against deep running symm boats on those courses.

I'm yet to see an Elliott boat that was any good at all upwind. Greg's focus seems to be reaching and downhill, and that's not bad, but it really depends on the nature of the racing you want to do.

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A good collection of old Volvo & Kooka sails in those pics. Was the build new ( looks very Siska like if taken off mould etc) or was it re imagined from a previous life?

Aluminium hull custom built my by father and current owner, launched 30 years ago as of Feb next year. Designed by a Kiwi bloke. A bit Farr inspired I guess but light displacement for her era at 10t. All of the Kooka/12m kites are fractional, mostly now tissue paper and therefore redundant. Chicken chute at 1.5 oz is still like cardboard. Most of the kites are ex circuit TP52. Main, well there is a massive <12 knot main that has half a season on it, square head carbon jobby with 20 odd can races and a heavy Dacron main that did three or four seasons.

Melbourne people may recall A 40 footer called Stilletto, she was the first boat my old boy built and campaigned on this coast. This boat goes better to windward.

There's a Bull 9000 up the dock from me. It has the crazy bull horn setup for the retractable bowsprit. Only some seem to have it.

Can they ocean race?

This boat has had a few lives over here. Originally sailing out of Albany. It moved up this way and did a bit of inshore work off the coast. Current owner doesn't have the time to race it properly I believe.

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Aluminium hull custom built my by father and current owner, launched 30 years ago as of Feb next year. Designed by a Kiwi bloke. A bit Farr inspired I guess but light displacement for her era at 10t. All of the Kooka/12m kites are fractional, mostly now tissue paper and therefore redundant. Chicken chute at 1.5 oz is still like cardboard. Most of the kites are ex circuit TP52. Main, well there is a massive <12 knot main that has half a season on it, square head carbon jobby with 20 odd can races and a heavy Dacron main that did three or four seasons.

Melbourne people may recall A 40 footer called Stilletto, she was the first boat my old boy built and campaigned on this coast. This boat goes better to windward.

Stilletto - "The Splinter" Sort of quick-ish off the wind but very ordinary upwind. Short MH rig as I recall but she's a distant memory these days. Sailed out of Hobsons Bay, Rex Palmer?? Must have been as wet as a half tide rock in our Port Phillip seaway.

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Stilletto - "The Splinter" Sort of quick-ish off the wind but very ordinary upwind. Short MH rig as I recall but she's a distant memory these days. Sailed out of Hobsons Bay, Rex Palmer?? Must have been as wet as a half tide rock in our Port Phillip seaway.

That's it. She was cracking high teens back in the 70's before it was cool.

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A guy I worked with back in the late '80's, sailed a boat across the Bight to Melbourne, was that Stiletto?

Long and thin, perhaps red... had a foot of water in the bilge for most of the trip

Could have been it. I think he sold the 40 in 82 to a syndicate that raced it over here before it went east. Would have been a wet trip across the bottom, but it did sail to Bali and back so it was capable.

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Could have been it. I think he sold the 40 in 82 to a syndicate that raced it over here before it went east. Would have been a wet trip across the bottom, but it did sail to Bali and back so it was capable.

The only Bakewell White boat I had heard of until now was "General Lee" which impressed me once by the speed it was doing on a youtube video. GL is for sale but the price is more than double than I'd probably list my SO40

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Ian's is a Razr 36 which was a locally (Sydney) variant with a deeper keel, new rudder and (I think) a bigger rig. I think but am not sure that David Lyons may have designed the underwater appendages if not the new rig too. Would guess it is a bit racier than the Titan 36.

In all its forms it is however a sweet boat..

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Ian's is a Razr 36 which was a locally (Sydney) variant with a deeper keel, new rudder and (I think) a bigger rig. I think but am not sure that David Lyons may have designed the underwater appendages if not the new rig too. Would guess it is a bit racier than the Titan 36.

In all its forms it is however a sweet boat..

I sail said boat from time to time. Rather fun. Would be much better with a lighter rig but it's sweet as is.

The only Bakewell White boat I had heard of until now was "General Lee" which impressed me once by the speed it was doing on a youtube video. GL is for sale but the price is more than double than I'd probably list my SO40

They are the 'offshore' version of the Foundation 36. Same hull, just different rig. Foundation 36's are the state match racing monohull and are extensively used by Swan River Sailing. Slippery hulls, easy to sail but visually un-inspiring.

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Out of curiosity, does anyone know what ball park the cost of designing and building a new keel is?

I was looking at 2 Bakewell White 36ft designs for different eras and the most noticable difference between a 90's and the 00's design is the keel. The foundation 36 has a draft of 1.9m (Titan 2.3m) and the KM36 is 2.64m.

I would imagine that upgrading from an old style keel design to a modern foil/bulb that is deeper and lighter would make a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps the need for reengineering the hull structures makes it an uneconomical upgrade and is why it is not done to boats at this end of the price scale?

(the same thought has crossed my mind with my Jeanneau as something fun to try if I won a 30m powerball lottery )

The only Bakewell White boat I had heard of until now was "General Lee" which impressed me once by the speed it was doing on a youtube video. GL is for sale but the price is more than double than I'd probably list my SO40

I wondered what had happened with GL. She / he racked up some pretty impressive results which were widely discussed here on SA, along with much criticism of her " USA inappropriate" name and graphics for a while, but then she suddenly stopped appearing and nothing more was heard of her. Whats the story morning glory? Any WA anarchists care to fill in the gaps?

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I wondered what had happened with GL. She / he racked up some pretty impressive results which were widely discussed here on SA, along with much criticism of her " USA inappropriate" name and graphics for a while, but then she suddenly stopped appearing and nothing more was heard of her. Whats the story morning glory? Any WA anarchists care to fill in the gaps?

Is it inappropriate in the US to like the Dukes of Hazard TV show/movie. I do think it would have been inappropriate to race GL without at least one Daisy Duke on the crew. The GL was a front runner on my 30m Powerball winning shopping spree since a V70 would not get into RMYS.

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Out of curiosity, does anyone know what ball park the cost of designing and building a new keel is?

I was looking at 2 Bakewell White 36ft designs for different eras and the most noticable difference between a 90's and the 00's design is the keel. The foundation 36 has a draft of 1.9m (Titan 2.3m) and the KM36 is 2.64m.

I would imagine that upgrading from an old style keel design to a modern foil/bulb that is deeper and lighter would make a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps the need for reengineering the hull structures makes it an uneconomical upgrade and is why it is not done to boats at this end of the price scale?

(the same thought has crossed my mind with my Jeanneau as something fun to try if I won a 30m powerball lottery )

I have a recent message from Andy Dovell advising that a new keel for a Sydney 47 - total weight around 3 tonnes, cost around $65K for a cast and milled iron fin and lead bulb, to top end specifications. In andy's view you scale it roughly on weight to get a cost for a smaller boat. A lower spec - hand finished instead of milled - would be cheaper. We are budgeting around $40K for a 40 footer I am working with on considering keel options.

Strength requirements for keel floors are driven by the keel weight and CG. For the same RM a lighter deeper keel puts a similar load on the keel floors, go deeper with the same keel weight and you do need to consider the strength of the structure. Also consider target wind range, if the boat is generally sailing at low hull speeds keel drag is less of a factor. At high hull and planing speeds it becomes more significant. Optimum answer depends in part on your prevailing weather, the type of racing you do and how your handicap systems treats the keel in question.

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Is it inappropriate in the US to like the Dukes of Hazard TV show/movie. I do think it would have been inappropriate to race GL without at least one Daisy Duke on the crew. The GL was a front runner on my 30m Powerball winning shopping spree since a V70 would not get into RMYS.

The confederate flag has racist overtones to many in the US as has been witnessed in the recent unpleasantness. There was a lot of discourse on these pages about it when the boat was first launched in Western Australia.

Personally, I have no issue with Daisy Duke's shorts.

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The confederate flag has racist overtones to many in the US as has been witnessed in the recent unpleasantness. There was a lot of discourse on these pages about it when the boat was first launched in Western Australia.

Personally, I have no issue with Daisy Duke's shorts.

I guess this is the problem with the internet making the world smaller.

In the US "General Lee" may get people thinking

but in Australia, with the exception of history buffs, we automatically think of

or even better

I'd probably want to change the name and paint job for matters of taste, but not related to being PC

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I wondered what had happened with GL. She / he racked up some pretty impressive results which were widely discussed here on SA, along with much criticism of her " USA inappropriate" name and graphics for a while, but then she suddenly stopped appearing and nothing more was heard of her. Whats the story morning glory? Any WA anarchists care to fill in the gaps?

Hasn't moved for years after it won the handicap honours in the Bali race (in 2013 I think). Owner has had it out in recent months doing round the cans winter stuff in the river but prior to that, just sat.

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Getting serious about listing my Jeanneau, will meet up with Sportscar soon to discuss it.

Told the missus about my plan, she was shocked that I could consider selling it, but was relieved that I still want a boat. I guess a race boat means she can come day sailing and even racing but not have to take a family cruise to Tassie.

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Hasn't moved for years after it won the handicap honours in the Bali race (in 2013 I think). Owner has had it out in recent months doing round the cans winter stuff in the river but prior to that, just sat.

Seems such a waste. I wonder what it cost when new. North of 500k I assume,

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Out of curiosity, does anyone know what ball park the cost of designing and building a new keel is?

I was looking at 2 Bakewell White 36ft designs for different eras and the most noticable difference between a 90's and the 00's design is the keel. The foundation 36 has a draft of 1.9m (Titan 2.3m) and the KM36 is 2.64m.

I would imagine that upgrading from an old style keel design to a modern foil/bulb that is deeper and lighter would make a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps the need for reengineering the hull structures makes it an uneconomical upgrade and is why it is not done to boats at this end of the price scale?

(the same thought has crossed my mind with my Jeanneau as something fun to try if I won a 30m powerball lottery )

The foundation 36 has such a shallow draught as they sail up river over here and often run regattas in very shallow areas

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Hmmmm when my boat was out of the water in Sandy in Autumn, the Sydney 38 Challenge was also in the yard and was looking pretty neat. I see it's for sale now. Need to see if my uncle who is my regular crew want's to go halvies....

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I'm thinking that it could be possible to go halves in a racer if it has a cruisable interior and perhaps the price range could be extended to 100k to 140k.

What are good boats in that price range?

Sydney 38 OD's are pretty common and seem to be reasonable inside, although the Sydney 38/41 thread does not seem to rate them so highly in IMS competitiveness, but then again it would be a huge improvement on my Jeanneau and the crew work will be the bigger problem. Anyone know how the S38 compare to a Farr 38 IMS?

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There is a NS 369 opposite my boat in the marina and I just now noticed that like us, they only raced in 3 of the winter pursuit races and in the final series result, they were 21st and we were 26th. Not so impressive. In Saturday's pursuit race, the NS369 did manage to finish whilst we ran out of time, but their finish time did not looks so impressive. It was terrible conditions for us as the winds were so light, but we were looking like we were going to beat a few light weight boats that I expected would murder us in the conditions.

Perhaps if we had a nice big no.1 laminate and main, instead heavy cruising dacrons (genoa a no.2) we might have been close to the NS369