Fri May 6 11:35:52 2016
To: all
I don't get this change that was made to upgrade all sabres
to have sharp + 3 flags. Especially coupled with the new changes
of races. I don't feel the need to spell this out too much, as it
should be plainly obvious. Wardancer is to be a class that relies
on flags to kill. Giving them 4 flags on every weapon, with a guaranteed sharp
is ludicrous. I have been fighting dancers (and essentially anyone
who wants to fight) to test shit. From my experimenting the dancers can easily
do 90-100 dmg per hit. With 8th attack and 5th dual. That is 14-15 attacks. And to the
genius that is like 8 + 5 = 13 ( that doesn't account for dual wield, the skill, and haste)
So hey we can be conservative and say on avg 8-10 attacks a round all with
4 flags. That is ridiculous. I have litterally lost all my moves
In less than 10 rounds. I haven't eve touched on all the other nifty skills
they have, warpaint, cartwheel and some of the other dances with their buffs
I just don't see the logic in adding sharp to every sabre.
None of the above is even considering other skills, dragon racials
Can we fix this? Or will this remain as it is? If so whats the logic behind the change?

[ 55] Nevalis: Re: sabres/wardancers
Fri May 6 13:46:22 2016
To: all
Before talking about wardancers, I wanted to cover another issue that's been around
since almost forever, poor itemization, specifically weapons.
When vulns were around, the severity of it hinged on spells with matching damage type,
weapon flags, and weapon damage type. Vuln fire and lightning being some of the worst
due to being a common damage component and are attached to two main PK facets: sight and
fleeing.

While casters were limited to mostly their arsenal of spells, melee combat effectiveness
rested mostly on the whims of builders who created all the weapons, and anyone who's been
here knows that some weapon flag/type/damage combos are much better than others.
This leads to some big swings in damage potential, for example:

So we see that combining these two is almost equivalent to enhanced damage. If someone has
enhanced damage, we're looking at over double damage.
Needless to say, a lot of damage potential is lost simply because someone never made a
weapon for your class of that potent combination. This is why bmages/ninjas were so powerful
since they would always have sharp + vuln, but for everyone else it's a crapshoot.

One solution would be to just add more weapons that fill in the gaps, and while that would
help, another approach is to minimize the drastic swings in damage and provide more weight
to other stats. Removing vulns was one part of that, which was essentially a 25% damage
nerf to melee, moreso for ninjas and bmage.

Sharp flag, and to a lesser extent Vorpal, are also things I would like to review to see
if changes can me made such that they are still desireable, but not just flat damage
bonuses. A class' power should be from the class itself, not the weapons they just happen
to have available.

With that said, the changes to wardancers are to see how trying to stabilize damage impacts
overall combat. In this case, having sharp on every sabre essentially is a flat 15% bonus
plus whatever the dances provide. If we know all sabres will be sharp, then we can tweak
skills with that in mind such as lowering dance damage bonuses, or cartwheel chance, or
many other things.

Like I said, the goal is to balance a class on its strengths/weakenesses and less on the
itemization that's available. It's obviously not going to be the smoothest process at times
due to how equipment was made, but until we actually try something and test there's no
knowing what the best approach will be.

[ 56] Faye: re:nevalis
Fri May 6 16:43:18 2016
To: all
it's great to see that Nevalis obviously knows
exactly what he is talking about and has a good grasp
on the nuances of things that make a big impact on the pk here.
Refreshing after playing at other places where
this was not the case.
For dancers, a class that was based on weapon flags,
but had sabres weaponflags nerfed to where they were
considerably worse than weapon sets like swords/axes
not to mention other general shittyness in the class
and it clearly needed a buff..nobody played it..now its
potentially relevant again, and doesn't seem particularly OP.

[ 60] Daghain: RE: Nevalis
Sat May 7 05:04:57 2016
To: all
Thank you for your response. I am delighted to read some of the information
that you gathered, and more pointedly, the overarching idea of
balancing. However, to be fair, I don't believe bmages were ever
"so powerful." They may have had sharp + vuln, but they have so few attacks it's pathetic.
I mean, honestly, Bishop(4) and Elder(5) have more main attacks than bmages(3).
Meh I digress, I could go on about it…I am sure things will change again.
But with no vulns, fabricate is more of a convenience. There are
better weapons out there (more than 3 flags). Being one of two people
that I know that successfully play bmage. I know that I may
be biased, but i do feel i know what I am talking about.
I do though look forward to more changes, and perhaps trying a diff class.

[ 61] Dex: RE: Wardancers, Nevalis
Sat May 7 05:56:43 2016
To: all
First off I think we should all just sit back, take a deep breath, and relax.
I know nobody is ungrateful for the hard work that ppl put in to this just
frustrated more or less by the testing phases. That being said we all
need to realize they're trying to balance the powers between melee and
casters. In case nobody else has noticed there is a reason that almost
90% of the mud plays melee classes and not casters.

Oh and Faye, here is a towel to wipe the cum off your lips bud.
No, really though, no offense but you're the last person I would trust
to give an objective view of wardancer considering for one you're playing
it and for two you tend to go whatever class recently gets buffed a bit.
Feel free to argue me on this all you want but the proof is in the pudding.
I think it's fairly obvious that the sharp & 3 flags on all sabres and
possibly some other things have made wardancers a tad bit too strong.
If you can find a different reason that all of a sudden wardancers
are popping up left and right, please do enlighten us all with your
brilliance. I've seen a few complaints of cartwheel and other things
as well. Anyway I trust that the Imm staff is doing there due dilligence
and anything that is out of sorts will be adjusted accordingly.

[ 62] Faye: re:dex
Sat May 7 17:10:13 2016
To: all
You barely play here and you don't really know what you're
talking about, lets be honest. I've remorted through most
combos of class/race at this point and wardancer is just
1 more that i'm passing through amongst loads of race
and class changes. The fact that the class was entirely
unplayed before the changes should be a pretty good indicator
that it wasn't up to snuff. Buffs make it potentially
playable again. To say it needs immediate nerfs seems
like a knee jerk reaction since clearly there are
many other classes more powerful than wardancer still,
and there are relatively few dancers compared
to other classes anyway, you're just being dramatic as usual.