NBA 2011-12 discussion

It will be close. LBJ has put up insane #s and has had an incredible year. I put up my ?s because those are what will be argued. But the guy is a complete force and has played at an incredibly high level this year.

With all those negatives, why should Lebron win it? I think Durant should win it and since they have the best record in the league, the voting shouldnt be super close. Lebron a distant 2nd then K Love in 3rd.

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okc doesn't have the best record in the league (chicago). okc does have the best record in the western conference. okc is 40-14. miami is 39-14.

Orlando's going backwards fast. Dwight's coming off like a jerk more and more often lately.

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Hey guys if you are interested in going to the circus..its happening right now in my city..lol. My god.

Dwight has been a jerk for a long time. I love Stan for exposing it. I really will miss him. Such a nice guy..will sit at a bar and talk hoops with random hacks like myself. It is truly a shame at how horrible our franchise looks.

Hey guys if you are interested in going to the circus..its happening right now in my city..lol. My god.

Dwight has been a jerk for a long time. I love Stan for exposing it. I really will miss him. Such a nice guy..will sit at a bar and talk hoops with random hacks like myself. It is truly a shame at how horrible our franchise looks.

I guess Nate McMillan is a potential replacement.

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Its crazy that these leagues have given into the spoiled brats who play for them. "we gotta make Dwight happy so he wont leave." Hes never won a damn thing anyway so why sell your soul to kiss his ass?
Keep Van gundy and trade Howard now.

Not sure if stats work here.
Day in and day out, you need production from your players.
The famous TWO normally loses to a pretty good three, because with 3 players, one can take the game off (not play well).
With only TWO, both have to produce each and every single game.
Dallas's win nothwithstanding, it was an anomoly. Barea and Terry will never reproduce that skill level again.

Upper management has messed up on drafts and keeps bringing in old/past their prime folks. Howard is dogging the team to the point that they can't lure good talent. Orlando isn't sure whether to try to keep Howard or ler him go.

That team has no real chance to win a title. Not sure they'll get out of the 1st round.

Now we've got players and coaches publicly announcing one or the other is backstabbing them (Dwight Howard vs. Stan Van Gundy).

DeMarcus Cousins (who that?) is now saying Blake Griffin is "babied" by the NBA. Yeah OK, this is coming from the same guy who *****ed about minutes, demanded a trade in the 2nd? year of his NBA career, and had a hand in the firing of Paul Westphal. Somebody must not own a mirror.

Now we've got players and coaches publicly announcing one or the other is backstabbing them (Dwight Howard vs. Stan Van Gundy).

DeMarcus Cousins (who that?) is now saying Blake Griffin is "babied" by the NBA. Yeah OK, this is coming from the same guy who *****ed about minutes, demanded a trade in the 2nd? year of his NBA career, and had a hand in the firing of Paul Westphal. Somebody must not own a mirror.

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Magic got Paul Westhead fired in the 80s before Riley came in because he felt they were playing too slow. Olajuwon once demanded to be traded from Houston in the early 90s, Barkley successfully demanded to be traded from Philly to Phoenix. Barkley and Pippen also went at each other when they played together in Houston.

Its crazy that these leagues have given into the spoiled brats who play for them. "we gotta make Dwight happy so he wont leave." Hes never won a damn thing anyway so why sell your soul to kiss his ass?
Keep Van gundy and trade Howard now.

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Trade Howard for what? He is the best C in the league. We were going to get Brook Lopez and change..no thanks!! I'll take the prima donna who will whine, but will get us a new GM, new system and new players.

Trade Howard for what? He is the best C in the league. We were going to get Brook Lopez and change..no thanks!! I'll take the prima donna who will whine, but will get us a new GM, new system and new players.

YES. He has to make free throws to get more touches.

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I don't know about that. Dwight Howard for me is not the best center in the league. I don't understand how he can play such great one-on-one and help defense, and then he goes to sleep on offense. He's not that offensively skilled. I hate to bring up this comparison but Shaq, who was similarly sized if not bigger had ridiculously good footwork and finesse. Not to mention the man could pass the ball.

The best center in the league can't get less than 10 touches a night and get 10 points a night. I remember Reggie Miller saying this in one of the games he was calling, he said something along the lines of: "When Dwight Howard goes up to the hoop, he should be taking people up there with him."

There is no better C than Dwight. No one will agree with you on this unless they are just not knowledgeable of the game. Dwight is clearly the best C in the league, and I would say that regardless if he played for us or the nets..etc.

I like Bynum and would rate him #2, but no C can anchor a D like dwight and make a team like Heat afraid to drive the lane. Everyone just looks at offense, and Dwight still drops 20 a game, but his defense is what makes him so elite.

There is no better C than Dwight. No one will agree with you on this unless they are just not knowledgeable of the game. Dwight is clearly the best C in the league, and I would say that regardless if he played for us or the nets..etc.

I like Bynum and would rate him #2, but no C can anchor a D like dwight and make a team like Heat afraid to drive the lane. Everyone just looks at offense, and Dwight still drops 20 a game, but his defense is what makes him so elite.

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I don't think there's a clear cut "best center" in the league right now. When Shaq was in his prime, there was Shaq, and then everyone else. That era included greats like David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, I'll throw Yao Ming in there too even though he came late in Shaq's career.

Yes, defensively Howard is clearly the best, but his offensive limitations really doesn't help him. And, he's in foul trouble every other night.

His (seemingly) lack of desire to call for the ball is the primary reason why I don't think he's the best center in the league. For one, his post positions are questionable. Most of the time, especially in last night's Knicks game, he wasn't posting anywhere near the paint. Of course the guards won't get him the ball. Because they're probably worried about my second reason why I don't think he's the best center in the league.

Alright, he's got the ball, but what is he going to do with it? If he doesn't post deep in the paint, he can't pound his way towards the basket. And I don't know why he can't, especially with his size and strength. He can't dream-shake people like Hakeem Olajuwon and Kevin Garnett. He can't pound his shoulders into the defender with one dribble and then spin off towards the basket, like Shaq did. Basically, once he gets the ball, he's got no moves.

Offensively, he's too inconsistent with his production and post position, and he's prone to foul trouble because he tries to block EVERY shot when that's not a reality.

So who is the best C in the league then? I mean you really don't think Dwight is the best? A lot of the things you are saying are true, and he is still the best.

Without Dwight the Magic would struggle to win 25 games in a full season. He really is that good.

The guy averages a double double and has won D player of the year multiple times.

He actually is not that prone to foul trouble for how active he is on defense.

I have watched almost every game he has ever played so you better really bring something to the table that is dead on here..lol. The foul trouble thing is BS.

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I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'll say it anyway. Kevin Garnett (I'll admit he's not a true center, but plays the position for the time being, so he has some clear advantages over traditional centers)

The reason why I say that because Kevin Garnett has the offensive skills set of a power forward. Post, face-up, fadaways, midway pop-up jumper, and finally, the Dream-Shake! As long as the ball is within the 3point line, he can do something with it. Because of his shooting abilities, he can draw centers away from the paint, giving room for his guards to penetrate the paint. Even at his age, he still has better lateral mobility, and flat out quicker than most of the centers he'll be matched up with. So there's my offensive argument, but because he's really a power forward and not a true center, some of these skills set is not normally found in a center. But he's playing the center position right now, so there.

Secondly, he doesn't have the sheer size of a traditional center, but he's lengthy enough to guard centers, and he's got great footwork to track where his opponent may go to. He's done so for his career so that's no surprise. One of the best help defender too.

Lastly, and I think this is so underrated, he's one of the few guys in the league that can guard all 5 positions. Again, because of his length, quickness, and agility.

As much as I think KG is awesome, he is old now and is not as good as Dwight Howard.

He also played the majority of his time at PF as you said, and Brandon Bass does a lot more of the C duties. I know this because Bass played that role for the Magic when Dwight was on the bench. Bass is a pretty darn good C due to athleticism and long arms.

To frame it differently, would you trade KG straight up for Dwight right now and call it fair? No you would not.

As much as I think KG is awesome, he is old now and is not as good as Dwight Howard.

He also played the majority of his time at PF as you said, and Brandon Bass does a lot more of the C duties. I know this because Bass played that role for the Magic when Dwight was on the bench. Bass is a pretty darn good C due to athleticism and long arms.

To frame it differently, would you trade KG straight up for Dwight right now and call it fair? No you would not.

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Of course not, one would have to think about the longevity of both players.

But think about this, who's more effective (overall) on the floor right now. KG or Dwight Howard?

If you ask me, right now and my team is playing a game tonight. I'll take KG, because he can do more on the floor per minute.

I guess I would not ask you then because Dwight is putting 20 and 10 in the books on average..lol.

Garnett is at 15 and 8...right around the same as Ryan Anderson.

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Is he really putting in 20 and 10? I don't follow sportscenter every night but each time I see Dwight Howard on national coverage, he just doesn't seem like the best center to me. (such as last night's)

Is he really putting in 20 and 10? I don't follow sportscenter every night but each time I see Dwight Howard on national coverage, he just doesn't seem like the best center to me. (such as last night's)

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Watch the games then. Dwight's pretty good, though he still has room for improvement. Definitely better than Garnett at this stage of their careers.

Watch the games then. Dwight's pretty good, though he still has room for improvement. Definitely better than Garnett at this stage of their careers.

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It's hard to sit through a Magic game, aside from the Warriors, Magic is the 2nd most self-destructive team.

I just think KG plays better team basketball than Dwight does at the moment, and he's more consistent night in and night out. There are a lot of stuff he does on the court that doesn't show up on the stats sheet.

It's hard to sit through a Magic game, aside from the Warriors, Magic is the 2nd most self-destructive team.

I just think KG plays better team basketball than Dwight does at the moment, and he's more consistent night in and night out. There are a lot of stuff he does on the court that doesn't show up on the stats sheet.

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I don't think you'd find a single basketball analyst that would agree with that. If Boston had Howard they'd be a title contender this year instead of likely 1st/2nd round loser. If Orlando had Garnett they would be lucky to make the playoffs.

The Magic are toast and will likely just blow up the team next year. SVG and the GM better get their resumes polished. Howard is a drama queen and has proven he can't lead by example. He really is a Robin, ala LeBron, searching for his Batman to carry a team. I feel sorry for the teammates as you have a player that is really confused and isn't leading by example plus a coach you don't want to listen to as you know he's a goner.

I don't think you'd find a single basketball analyst that would agree with that. If Boston had Howard they'd be a title contender this year instead of likely 1st/2nd round loser. If Orlando had Garnett they would be lucky to make the playoffs.

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Yes, thanks. I can't debate with a guy that doesn't watch the games. I have seen more magic games than most, and I don't expect many people to know as much about Dwight as me, but a least know his numbers..lol.

The Magic are toast and will likely just blow up the team next year. SVG and the GM better get their resumes polished. Howard is a drama queen and has proven he can't lead by example. He really is a Robin, ala LeBron, searching for his Batman to carry a team. I feel sorry for the teammates as you have a player that is really confused and isn't leading by example plus a coach you don't want to listen to as you know he's a goner.

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I agree with all of this. Dwight is going to be asked to sign a long term extension after the magic fire Otis and Stan and show him the new plan. If he is not into it, he will be traded before the season begins. That is huge because whatever team gets him will have him for a year so the magics trade options will be so much better. There is a serious chance that dwight likes the new direction and stays though.

Also this latest debacle may finally have shown rich Devos how horribly run his team is. He is going to make wholesale bottom to top changes this summer so as a magic fan I am very very happy. It was needed a long time ago.

I really don't buy into OKC for the championship just yet. Something about relying so much on 3 shooters and no post presence as your entire offense just makes me think they'll break down in a best of 7. That and I'm still not sold on Westbrook knowing his role (get the ball to KD) in the key moments.

My oh my who's in 1st place in the West at the moment? The SPURS? The team nobody talks about. LOL

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Yeah, it's not really been too surprising to me, i've been lucky enough to get to see quite a few of their games so far and they're the team i've looked forward to seeing the most.

To me they seem to have the best depth in the entire league. Duncan, Blair, Parker, Leonard and Green usually start, and it's a great lineup.

After that you get Splitter, Bonner, Jackson, Diaw, Neal, Ginobili and Mills coming at you even harder. A few days ago their bench got 80 of their 125 points, they're fun to watch.

Leonard has been really impressive, he defended Durant a month ago better than most i've seen lately. He dunks, shoots 3's and is a real pest on the defensive end. Irving has been great and will no doubt win rookie of the year, but what Leonard has been showing is right up there imo.

Melo carrying the team as usual. Chandler was a beast on that last play. Heat, Bulls, and Bucks are gonna be tough but we should win one of those (probably home against the heat) Wizards should be a sure win but the Knicks always mess up easy wins

Melo carrying the team as usual. Chandler was a beast on that last play. Heat, Bulls, and Bucks are gonna be tough but we should win one of those (probably home against the heat) Wizards should be a sure win but the Knicks always mess up easy wins

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Absolutely love watching the Bulls. They can be up 20 or down 20, and the entire team, starters or not will still dive to the floor for a loose ball.

Melo carried them to the win, but the rest of the team showed their hustle too. Tyson Chandler, keep hustling!

Leonard has filled the Bowen roll rather well. Bowen was a better defender, but Kawhi is a way better rebounder and finsiher around the basket. Bowen later in his career shot the corner three at a high % Leonard needs to improve thier. But Overall he has fit onto that squad nicely.

Leonard has filled the Bowen roll rather well. Bowen was a better defender, but Kawhi is a way better rebounder and finsiher around the basket. Bowen later in his career shot the corner three at a high % Leonard needs to improve thier. But Overall he has fit onto that squad nicely.

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Yeah, when Bowen had his number retired a month or so ago I was thinking the same about Leonard.

He's shooting around 37% from 3, so he's doing ok so far. Did you see him dunk all over Kaman last week? Just shows the athleticism and power he already has.

I also hear he's number 1 in the NBA for steals per turnover. I think Pop will help him improve out of sight in alot of areas over the coming years too.

Any comments on Miami's James Jones 3 pt performance against the Pistons? 6 of 8 really opened the middle for Bosh.

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Torching the Pistons these days isn't all that impressive. The Pistons are just zombies playing out the season. They've been lifeless all year long. Spare Tayshaun and trade him. That whole team needs to be torn down and built from the ground up.

Torching the Pistons these days isn't all that impressive. The Pistons are just zombies playing out the season. They've been lifeless all year long. Spare Tayshaun and trade him. That whole teams needs to be torn down and built from the ground up.

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Greg Monroe's actually been solid, but guys like Gordon, Stuckey and Villanueva w/ huge contracts who aren't performing up to them.

Yeah, when Bowen had his number retired a month or so ago I was thinking the same about Leonard.

He's shooting around 37% from 3, so he's doing ok so far. Did you see him dunk all over Kaman last week? Just shows the athleticism and power he already has.

I also hear he's number 1 in the NBA for steals per turnover. I think Pop will help him improve out of sight in alot of areas over the coming years too.

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I wasnt aware he was shooting at that high a clip from 3. I know his overall shooting % is higher as are his FTs. But Bowen essentially made a career in SA of being a swarming defender off the ball and draining the corner three.

Kawhi doesnt have the same tenacity on D as Bowen, but the Refs call the games different. He seems to be really good at reading where passes are going and cutting the lanes off. Thats probably why his steal numbers are so good. Overall he should be better than Bowen, but the thought when he was drafted was to replace Bowen and whetever else they got was a bonus.

I wasnt aware he was shooting at that high a clip from 3. I know his overall shooting % is higher as are his FTs. But Bowen essentially made a career in SA of being a swarming defender off the ball and draining the corner three.

Kawhi doesnt have the same tenacity on D as Bowen, but the Refs call the games different. He seems to be really good at reading where passes are going and cutting the lanes off. Thats probably why his steal numbers are so good. Overall he should be better than Bowen, but the thought when he was drafted was to replace Bowen and whetever else they got was a bonus.

They got the Bonus on Kawhi and they got the Bonus on Blairs knees

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Yeah, i've seen him knock down quite a few 3's, but I didn't expect his % to be that high. I don't think he takes that many, which makes sense when you have the likes of Green, Ginobili, Neal, Bonner, Jackson etc.. the opposition can't guard them all so one is usually free. That's why I think the Spurs are going to go deep in the playoffs, they have so many players who can get it done. With most teams, if you do a good job on their best 3 players you will win more often than not. With this Spurs team, they've proven this year that it's not enough to get the job done against them.

As for Leonard's defence, yeah he isn't is the same league as Bowen. Hopefully he can be over time, he certainly has the swarming capabilities you mention. He's a real pest and you don't get much time with him.

Hopefully SA can stay healthy this year. Injuries hit them bad the end of last year, that's part of why they lost to Memphis. Would love to see a Chicago-SA finals. One of my good friends is a Spurs fan and SA's always been a favorite of mine. Respect Pop and Duncan for getting it done w/o the drama of so many other places.

Hopefully SA can stay healthy this year. Injuries hit them bad the end of last year, that's part of why they lost to Memphis. Would love to see a Chicago-SA finals. One of my good friends is a Spurs fan and SA's always been a favorite of mine. Respect Pop and Duncan for getting it done w/o the drama of so many other places.

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At the draft last year rumors were swirling that the Spurs might trade Parker. Turns out it didn't happen. Parker got over that and has done well. Ginobili and Parker have had their injuries. Duncan's numbers are career lows. Yet I haven't heard any b*tching, complaining, or excuses from that team. Always been no-nonsense and let the results speak for themselves.

Odom, Howard, Cousins, and the rest of the drama queens could pick up a few things from the Spurs.

Any chance we'll see a 1st round Spurs/Suns series? I'd love to see that again!

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I enjoyed watching that series. All-offense vs great defense. Of course Popovich easily outcoached D'Antoni. Nash, Stoudemire, Marion, Johnson, Richardson, Barbosa could go off at any moment. At the same time, the Suns never had an answer for Duncan. Ginobili and Parker would penetrate the box almost at will, Bowen, Barry, Jackson could hit the 3. And for some odd reason Bowen was able to play lockdown D on Marion.